# [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread



## Tatakai All

Holy crap! I just watched the trailer in that link you provided and let me just say, HOT DAMN! I've been hearing ppl talk about this game with crazy excitement, without actually knowing anything about it. But after watching that trailer, I'm gonna pre-order this game tomorrow.

EDIT: Also getting another 5870 just to max out everything in this game.


----------



## Ajax413

Heck yes, Starcraft 2! Who else is hitting up the midnight release?


----------



## h4xin

I have been in the beta since day one. I am really pumped for this game. I'm definitely going to the midnight release in Atlanta. Going to pre order it now. Schools been real crazy so i havent had a chance to pre order yet haha.


----------



## Slayem

i have had it preordered forever, man i cant wait!!!! Im going crazy, no games are fun atm, all i want to play is sc haha...


----------



## Waffleboy

Cliched dialogue I thought but top-notch voice acting. And, of course, it's Starcraft.


----------



## Zulli85

Isn't there already a SCII discussion thread somewhere? Maybe not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
Holy crap! I just watched the trailer in that link you provided and let me just say, HOT DAMN! I've been hearing ppl talk about this game with crazy excitement, without actually knowing anything about it. But after watching that trailer, I'm gonna pre-order this game tomorrow.

EDIT: Also getting another 5870 just to max out everything in this game.

Don't. Its not needed at all. My sig rig runs the game at 1920x1200 at high or ultra settings like butter.


----------



## ryaan

im so pumped... BUT

im at school right now chillen for the summer, taking it easy - my computer is here. my dad is coming up from florida to jersey this weekend and i havent seen him since christmas so im going to jersey to visit for ~2 weeks. FSCK by the time i get back to school with my comp and buy the game 11year olds will already raep at the game and pwn me in every 2v2/3v3 i join.

i also havent played the beta so im gonna get pwnnttt hard


----------



## TheBigC

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
Heck yes, Starcraft 2! Who else is hitting up the midnight release?

MIDNIGHT LAUNCH PARTY! Woot!


----------



## TheBigC

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
Holy crap! I just watched the trailer in that link you provided and let me just say, HOT DAMN! I've been hearing ppl talk about this game with crazy excitement, without actually knowing anything about it. But after watching that trailer, I'm gonna pre-order this game tomorrow.

EDIT: Also getting another 5870 just to max out everything in this game.

I can run it at max on my laptop which has duel ATI MOBILITY 4870's lol.


----------



## Karther

^I agree with Zulli85.

I was in last phase of the beta last week and my sig rig ran it perfectly fine. You should have a more than adequate rig to max everything out smoothly.


----------



## holyherbiness

Yep. I played the game with little lag with an 8800 GT and Dual core 2.2 Ghz Intel of some kind. However, in UMS games with a lot of stuff going on, it froze up and sometimes crashed.

So I built this set up to assure that all my bases would be covered.


----------



## SVCweyman

CPU speed is actually more of a limiting factor according to some benchmarks/reviews out there.

Even with a 8800GTX, you can run the game on the all the highest settings and it will run pretty smooth. However, once you get into a big game, like 3v3 or 4v4 (maybe even 2v2). You will start lagging like crazy. My buddy lags so much he has to give me control of his units as he can't micro at all. He was using a netbook though









My rig, as stated below, still experienced lag during 3v3 battles if everyone was just massing up huge armies.

Not a big deal if you only play 1v1. Which, IMO, is the most fun anyways.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SVCweyman* 
CPU speed is actually more of a limiting factor according to some benchmarks/reviews out there.

Even with a 8800GTX, you can run the game on the all the highest settings and it will run pretty smooth. However, once you get into a big game, like 3v3 or 4v4 (maybe even 2v2). You will start lagging like crazy. My buddy lags so much he has to give me control of his units as he can't micro at all. He was using a netbook though









My rig, as stated below, still experienced lag during 3v3 battles if everyone was just massing up huge armies.

Not a big deal if you only play 1v1. Which, IMO, is the most fun anyways.

This ^

It's good that SC2 takes advantage of as many cores as it can, but the game is 70% CPU, 30% GPU.

I played with friends in 7v7s some had 2 cores and would start to lag 10 minutes in, 4 cores at 30 minutes, and my six cores ran strong until the 1 hour mark, then I noticed some frame rate drops.

We all have high end GPUs as well, I think the lowest was a 4890 and the highest being my two 5850s.

I had to play SC2 on a single core processor for a few days and let me tell you, about 5 minutes in, the computer went from 60FPS to 15FPS if I was lucky.


----------



## Sodalink

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SVCweyman* 
CPU speed is actually more of a limiting factor according to some benchmarks/reviews out there.

Even with a 8800GTX, you can run the game on the all the highest settings and it will run pretty smooth. However, once you get into a big game, like 3v3 or 4v4 (maybe even 2v2). You will start lagging like crazy. My buddy lags so much he has to give me control of his units as he can't micro at all. He was using a netbook though









My rig, as stated below, still experienced lag during 3v3 battles if everyone was just massing up huge armies.

Not a big deal if you only play 1v1. Which, IMO, is the most fun anyways.

uh my CF 5770's should be able to max it out or I'll regret ever going CF instead of a single card.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sodalink* 
uh my CF 5770's should be able to max it out or I'll regret ever going CF instead of a single card.

You should be fine in 4v4s for an entire game, but you will experience lag near the end, at least I did. Not much can be done when 8 players have an average of 200+ units per person on the field (thats 1600 total).


----------



## ryaan

hopefully my comp can handle it. will be playing @ 1440x900 everything high no aa. if i can get ultra w/ no aa i'll be happy


----------



## Wishmaker

This is one sexy game


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryaan* 
hopefully my comp can handle it. will be playing @ 1440x900 everything high no aa. if i can get ultra w/ no aa i'll be happy









The only problem will be your CPU, I think past 2v2s, you're computer will be toast. I played 2v2s with friends on Dual Cores and they lagged after about 45 minutes. If you're really serious about SC2 you'll wanna go pick up a quad core. Again, the game is not very demanding graphically, it's very CPU intensive.

Hopefully the actual released version will be a little bit more refined.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverPotato* 
The only problem will be your CPU, I think past 2v2s, you're computer will be toast. I played 2v2s with friends on Dual Cores and they lagged after about 45 minutes. If you're really serious about SC2 you'll wanna go pick up a quad core. Again, the game is not very demanding graphically, it's very CPU intensive.

Hopefully the actual released version will be a little bit more refined.

2v2s are easy to handle. It starts to get shaky when 8 people play a custom game with in game cut-scenes; someone always lags because they like to turn up the settings more than they can handle. I can't play unless I'm getting 70+ fps at all times, even under large battles.

I'm probably going to pick up a 460 gtx before the games release, but I'm not sure if I will even notice a difference in fps.


----------



## eternal7trance

Yea hopefully my cpu will be ok when I try 4v4s. I had no problem with 2v2s maxed.


----------



## floodx

Great! After watching that trailer I need to play the campaigns now too. As if I wasn't going to play enough already.









EDIT: Anyone want to venture a guess as to how my sig rig will hold up against SC2 @ 1280x1024? I actually only have 2GB of RAM though, one stick is eff'd.


----------



## NrGx

Not long now.

Aussies! www.dse.com.au has it for $70 with free delivery.


----------



## Polska

In an effort to stay sane I made this wallpaper, just thought I would share. It is similar to the collectors edition box. Full image can be found HERE on deviant art (1920x1080).


----------



## AblueXKRS

If for some reason the game isn't accidentally released Monday, I'm going to die of excitement. Not sure I can contain myself to Tuesday....

*gnaws on fingernails whilst going







*

Thank god no school next week 'cuz of Siggraph.

God darn it that I'm going to Siggraph on Weds...


----------



## Xealot

I've been looking through the artwork and screens up on the new SC2 site and they have some pretty awesome stuff on there.

I think this is my favorite so far:


----------



## DoubleX

this game is good and you cannot disagree with me


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Going to get mine at midnight and finish it before morning







, anyways i just cant wait, its been SC2 in my mind for like 2 months now.


----------



## Darkknight512

Oh man, I can't wait any longer, my preorder is so old the receipt is starting to feel a little old.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
Heck yes, Starcraft 2! Who else is hitting up the midnight release?

you can EASILY max out everything with a 5770.. 2x 5870s is a waste for this game

even my 5850 at stock averages 90 fps


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
Going to get mine at midnight and finish it before morning







, anyways i just cant wait, its been SC2 in my mind for like 2 months now.

hey zealot we need to get back on some 2v2 matches in a couple days


----------



## NrGx

Does SC2 have a noobs league for people like me who in obviously suck?


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Does SC2 have a noobs league for people like me who in obviously suck?









They let you play 5 placement matches for each category (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4) and depending on the outcome of those 5 matches, you're placed in a league with your similar skillset (for example, Platinum/Gold League for the extremely good/very good players, Silver/Bronze for the good/above average players, etc.

That way, you won't have to play with people who outclass you


----------



## Heimsgard

I can not wait for this I am going for midnight release at my local Gamestop. I asked the dude how many pre-orders they had he said 55 not including the collector's edition. I just pre-ordered it today because I got the money for it acouple days ago.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Does SC2 have a noobs league for people like me who in obviously suck?









Like jcde7ago said above, you'll play placement matches to determine your initial ladder placement - Bronze < Silver < Gold < Platinum < Diamond.

I'd definitely recommend resisting the urge to jump right into multiplayer and playing through the solo campaign if you're not familiar with the game. You'll get a decent feel for each race and you'll give the beta players some time to get themselves sorted into gold/plat/diamond. Should be a much easier time starting out that way.

Couple of sites to check out if you're bored:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_Wiki
day9tv.blip.tv


----------



## thenailedone

I have been trying to make a pre-download in preparation of the digital release for days without success... come on Blizzard, give me a break


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thenailedone* 
I have been trying to make a pre-download in preparation of the digital release for days without success... come on Blizzard, give me a break 

I did my pre-download a few days ago









Although, i am gonna hit up a couple Gamestops in my area that are doing midnight releases... of the retail version...so, if I can snag a physical copy and start playing ~10 hours before the digital versions are able to be activated, i am definitely down.


----------



## Velathawen

I wonder how much cheese there is going to be during the initial ladder rush characteristic of these blizzard releases


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
I did my pre-download a few days ago









Although, i am gonna hit up a couple Gamestops in my area that are doing midnight releases... of the retail version...so, if I can snag a physical copy and start playing ~10 hours before the digital versions are able to be activated, i am definitely down.









It seems to me that the digital installer is identical to the retail installer... the only difference is that you can't purchase keys online until 10AM.


----------



## melterx12

Will I be able to run everything max at 1680x1050 and 4xAA at 90FPS+?

also, I want to buy it at gamestop on day it releases (not midnight launch), I dont have it reserved. Will I be able to just walk in and buy it or are they going to be sold out?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *melterx12* 
Will I be able to run everything max at 1680x1050 and 4xAA at 90FPS+?

also, I want to buy it at gamestop on day it releases (not midnight launch), I dont have it reserved. Will I be able to just walk in and buy it or are they going to be sold out?

You should be able to get close to that. I'm not sure about my FPS, but I max it at 1680x1050, no AA, and can't notice any frame drops.

I would think you can, unless your area is just in some SC2 frenzy, they should have a lot left over for the next day.


----------



## Jeffro422

Can anyone confirm if SC2 runs on Crossfire X setups yet? I know in early beta everyone was complaining of units being invisible and not being able to see the mineral patches. I know that's still a case for me and I'm on 10.5 drivers, I've just disabled crossfire when playing Starcraft II.


----------



## Maian

I don't see why Blizzard would leave out Crossfire setups with all the optimizations they do for their games. Probably wasn't in the Beta because it was beta and Crossfire in it was unimportant. However, nobody can confirm/deny until someone with Crossfire gets the game in their hands.


----------



## Jeffro422

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maian* 
I don't see why Blizzard would leave out Crossfire setups with all the optimizations they do for their games. Probably wasn't in the Beta because it was beta and Crossfire in it was unimportant. However, nobody can confirm/deny until someone with Crossfire gets the game in their hands.

True I wasn't even thinking in terms of the game not utilizing crossfire setups in the beta and that changing in the retail version. I was thinking in terms of ATI drivers being the issue. Thanks for that thought.

Will find out Monday night at Midnight..did anyone get the call from Gamestop saying it'll be available at 10pm on Monday? I did. But I think they mean the doors open at 10pm and game released at midnight.


----------



## Coma

Well, you can't install it before midnight anyway. The early opening might be just to get the queue going earlier.


----------



## NrGx

2 hours 45 minutes to go till launch here in Aus. My order has been shipped!


----------



## Miitch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
2 hours 45 minutes to go till launch here in Aus. My order has been shipped!









Dude, I can't wait


----------



## Darkknight512

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
2 hours 45 minutes to go till launch here in Aus. My order has been shipped!









Ohhhh, Just 32 hours till I get mine! (Launch in 16 hours)


----------



## Josephfelice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Trailer below:

YouTube- StarCraft II - Ghosts of the Past Trailer

www.starcraft2.com

3 Days to Go!

Why do the trailers look cooler then the actual gameplay of the game... Though Blizzards doing something right since their games sell like crazy. I just dont understand how since the movies they show of this game look totally different then the actual gameplay.


----------



## NrGx

And its out! Let the games begin.

Australian Launch pictures: http://twitter.com/EBGamesAus


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Josephfelice* 
Why do the trailers look cooler then the actual gameplay of the game... Though Blizzards doing something right since their games sell like crazy. I just dont understand how since the movies they show of this game look totally different then the actual gameplay.

Because no game's cut-scenes have ever looked better than the actual gameplay before







. It's called story mode.


----------



## Coma

I wonder if you can install the game earlier if it's the 27th in your region.


----------



## arkheii

I'm so excited about SC2 that I wanted to just get the digital version so I can play earlier, but I realized just now that SC2 is region locked.







I wanna play with people from all over the world, not just a few select servers because Blizzard wants me to buy multiple copies of the game.


----------



## AntiTalent

Just installed it. Patched/Updated. Now just need a CD-Key.

Will have to run out and get a CD-Key in the shops or online after work, depending on cost. If it's the same price I'm having a hard copy for the sake of it.

Just watched the Intro


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
I wonder if you can install the game earlier if it's the 27th in your region.

Sure can. I played a few games about 7 hours ago ^^


----------



## ReaperMan

AWWWW.. so unfair.. I bet all those brits are playing it right now.


----------



## yakub0

goin to the midnight launch event now







cya


----------



## burrbit

Lol right now I'm the only person in line


----------



## Darkknight512

Nice, when do the doors open for where you are? in 15 minutes? I'm going to grab my pre-order after work at 5 tmrw.


----------



## NrGx

Quite an amazing experience so far. The storyline is progressing apace and the music is just unbelievable. I'm playing through on 'Normal' and it doesn't feel all that hard and I'm the first to say I suck at RTS games.

So far, it's great









Oh and on the SEA server, 317 games already. Which isn't too bad considering how long it has been out.


----------



## Behemoth777

Oooooohhh maaaannnn!!!! 10am tomorrow morning!!!


----------



## Hexa

I want to play this but for Single Player only. You guys know if there is any site that will let me (legally) down load the videos from the FIRST Star Craft so I can get cought up on the lore or story?

I'm assuming I could see them on Youtube but I'd like to see high quality.

It's also pretty important that I see them in order lol.


----------



## bak3donh1gh

there not that many cutscenes for the original, most of the story is told ingame.


----------



## iscariot

Installing now 20% to go


----------



## eikast

i'm in line now at walmart in southern California. i'm fourth in line


----------



## Marafice Eye

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iscariot* 
Installing now 20% to go

Installed and updated about an hour ago (only 11:20 pm here right now). Now I just have to wait till 10am PDT to buy the key on the Blizz store. Nice thing is, even though I can't play the actual game, I can still mess with the editor, total win.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Just got mine. Had to wait 4 hours in the line and still could not get CE.


----------



## Ajax413

Picked up mine and got a couple of games in. Almost no wait, was through the line in around 10 minutes.


----------



## Gnomepatrol

at 90% install as we speak no wait at all lol walmart was awesome had 3 registers with boxes handing out the game like candy


----------



## godofdeath

omg im so sad i couldnt get GodofDeath as a username for online


----------



## Snowblind

So, I just finished my first ladder game. I had no idea what I was doing, lol. Just took a lot of expansions and massed so many marines, which were pumping from 10 barracks, that the enemies just could not overwhelm me. My ally didn't do much aside from defending his part of the map all game long.

The game itself seems pretty fun, but I still, by far, prefer Warcraft III's melee play. In addition, battle.net 2.0 appears to be complete ****. We'll see how things turn out over the next few days.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hexa* 
I want to play this but for Single Player only. You guys know if there is any site that will let me (legally) down load the videos from the FIRST Star Craft so I can get cought up on the lore or story?

I'm assuming I could see them on Youtube but I'd like to see high quality.

It's also pretty important that I see them in order lol.

YouTube is pretty high quality. Anyway, just install the game. There's a narrative that explains everything during the installer. You can also go to the "Join the Dominion!" page and watch the New Era or whatever video. It's the same.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snowblind* 
In addition, battle.net 2.0 appears to be complete ****. We'll see how things turn out over the next few days.

What's wrong with it? It seems to pretty good and the Real ID thing and Facebook integration is awesome!


----------



## Coma

oh no you didn't


----------



## Vargess

Picked up my Collector's Edition from Best Buy a while ago.. loving the USB drive they put in there.. it's made of metal, the jacket slides in/out for secure storage, has a chain to put around your neck and lights up orange when you plug it in lol.. Too bad it's only 2Gb, but there are screws you can take it apart from.. I wonder.. I have an 8GB slider.


----------



## Jeffro422

This single player is unlike anything I expected, it's superb. Being that I was in the beta the while time through both phases, I'm putting my attention towards the campaign a bit.


----------



## Heimsgard

Just got my copy I am installing it now it needs to hurry.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I hate all of youse.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Still. I learned that Next Day Air Saver shipping is guaranteed by noon to commercial addresses. Let's hope they can't tell the difference between my house and teh chiropractors' down the street.









Edit: what a stupid thing to say. =/


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vargess* 
Picked up my Collector's Edition from Best Buy a while ago.. loving the USB drive they put in there.. it's made of metal, the jacket slides in/out for secure storage, has a chain to put around your neck and lights up orange when you plug it in lol.. Too bad it's only 2Gb, but there are screws you can take it apart from.. I wonder.. I have an 8GB slider.









take some nice pics, I wanna see!


----------



## bak3donh1gh

oooh free notepad! Actually usefull for me since the only notepad i had was really small.


----------



## mattlyall06

i am sooooooooo leaving work early tomorrow. CE is being shipped there so alls i need is an excuse


----------



## Zulli85

Lost Vikings mini game in SCII campaign SUP? Friggin awesome, its so polished for just a mini game hahaha. After about 4 missions you'll move into a room that has an arcade. Click it to play Lost Vikings. Lotta fun.


----------



## rurushu

What? 60€ for the digital version? Blizzard sure knows how to rip off desperate people (like me







). Probably still cheaper than in stores around here though


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rurushu* 
What? 60€ for the digital version? Blizzard sure knows how to rip off desperate people (like me







)

Blizzard spent TONS of money developing this game not to mention the MANY years they took perfecting it

I HAPPILY paid $100 for my CE with beta key


----------



## mattlyall06

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Blizzard spent TONS of money developing this year not to mention the MANY years they took perfecting it

*I HAPPILY paid $100 for my CE* with beta key

this.


----------



## c0nnection

The only game I will pay $60 for. I am just glad that Blizzard finally released the most anticipated PC game in recent times, that isn't an MMO.









Diablo 3 can't come soon enough.


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Blizzard spent TONS of money developing this game not to mention the MANY years they took perfecting it

I HAPPILY paid $100 for my CE with beta key

Still, 60â‚¬ is almost 80$, which means my DIGITAL version cost almost as much as your CE.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I dont feel bad at all for buying this game and i rarely buy games (new games anyway).. you know what Blizzard is all about, perfection


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rurushu* 
Still, 60â‚¬ is almost 80$, which means my DIGITAL version cost almost as much as your CE.

Is that how much they are charging for the digital? It's more than the boxed version? or is that just how much they charge in Croatia?


----------



## Vargess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
take some nice pics, I wanna see!

Sorry for the fuzzy/shaky look







Had macro on, but didn't use my stand for the shots.


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Is that how much they are charging for the digital? It's more than the boxed version? or is that just how much they charge in Croatia?

I guess that's what they charge in all of Europe and it's pretty much the same as the boxed version (if you omit the ridiculous 23% tax here in Croatia).


----------



## Vargess

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bak3donh1gh*


oooh free notepad! Actually usefull for me since the only notepad i had was really small.



Notepad? Is that in the regular edition box? How come my Collector's Edition doesn't have a notepad









Anything special(like says SC2 or Blizzard on it?) or is it just blank?


----------



## ThumperSD

woot won my first 1v1.. time for some single player for the rest of the night & morning

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rurushu*


I guess that's what they charge in all of Europe and it's pretty much the same as the boxed version (if you omit the ridiculous 23% tax here in Croatia).


23%?







and i thought california's taxes were bad


----------



## Spade616

^that is effing sweet man.. finally got a hold of my SE copy.. came with a free shirt and a normal dogtag..



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## iscariot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vargess*


Notepad? Is that in the regular edition box? How come my Collector's Edition doesn't have a notepad









Anything special(like says SC2 or Blizzard on it?) or is it just blank?


I got a note pad too  Has a picture of Raynor and says "Wanted Dead or Alive"

Must say Impressed with the game. Played three campaign missions so far it feels and looks much better than SCI in my opinion. The Beta didnt do it justice.


----------



## Jeffro422

Dang dude got a shirt and a little dog tag, I got a poster but I wish I got a shirt like the one you got(same one the people at Game Stop were wearing if I recall)


----------



## bak3donh1gh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iscariot*


Must say Impressed with the game. Played three campaign missions so far it feels and looks much better than SCI in my opinion. The Beta didnt do it justice.


I wouldnt call it better the original did come out 12 years ago


----------



## ThumperSD

My game stop didnt give any extras out.. you guys are lucky!!


----------



## Coma

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rurushu*


Still, 60€ is almost 80$, which means my DIGITAL version cost almost as much as your CE.


I bought mine at g2play.net. Got key by email at 11:16 PM on the 26th my time (GMT+3), and activated with no issues. ($50)

I was one of the first to post on the EU B.net because they were quick with delivery.


----------



## xquisit

will buy this tomorrow...


----------



## kilrbe3

Dear SC fans,

I am a FPS man, I admit, But I love me some good old Company Of Heroes and Command And Conquer Generals. Never touched SC1 before, but SC2 looks fun, its new, buddies are playing it, shoot, even some people IRL are playing SC2 that I never knew played games in the first place









So my question, how big is the learning curve? In CoH i never ever played MP, unless it was with friends. I liked playing against the computer at my own pace and build up a massive tank army and steam roll. Can I do that in SC2 as well, vs bots? Or is it MP and just SP.

Should I pick it up? 
Anything I should watch like how to play SC2 in 3mins or something?


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Hopefully they still have a copy at the NEX when I get off of work. Probably not though


----------



## floodx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kilrbe3*


Dear SC fans,

I am a FPS man, I admit, But I love me some good old Company Of Heroes and Command And Conquer Generals. Never touched SC1 before, but SC2 looks fun, its new, buddies are playing it, shoot, even some people IRL are playing SC2 that I never knew played games in the first place









So my question, how big is the learning curve? In CoH i never ever played MP, unless it was with friends. I liked playing against the computer at my own pace and build up a massive tank army and steam roll. Can I do that in SC2 as well, vs bots? Or is it MP and just SP.

Should I pick it up? 
Anything I should watch like how to play SC2 in 3mins or something?


Starcraft 2 shouldn't be too steep because you can get by on macro even if your micro sucks. Their new ladder system should keep everyone in the proper league anyway. I'm 2 games away from figuring out where I stand. So far I've lost 2 and won 1.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

---------


----------



## sccr64472

How many players in multiplayer? Also, can 4 people play against 4 AI? Thanks in advance. This info is a make or break for me (us).


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sccr64472* 
How many players in multiplayer? Also, can 4 people play against 4 AI? Thanks in advance. This info is a make or break for me (us).

yes, and I think it goes up to 4v4, so 8 players.. that was the biggest map in beta.


----------



## jbrown

How will my current setup handle SC2?

Processor is at 3.0 (stock)


----------



## ReaperMan

Stupid amazon still hasn't delivered my game yet


----------



## Fatty Beef

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maian* 
I don't see why Blizzard would leave out Crossfire setups with all the optimizations they do for their games. Probably wasn't in the Beta because it was beta and Crossfire in it was unimportant. However, nobody can confirm/deny until someone with Crossfire gets the game in their hands.

Meh --- I was in the beta

5770, well the rig in my sig haha rhymed

1920x1280 everything set to full ran perfectly smooth so not to concerned about it being supported or not

Really not the most graphical intensive game out there


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sccr64472* 
How many players in multiplayer? Also, can 4 people play against 4 AI? Thanks in advance. This info is a make or break for me (us).


Coop mode = 2vs CPU, 3vs CPU

Versus = 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, FFA


----------



## dejanh

Question for those that have played the beta...you guys seen anything different in the retail game vs. the beta in regards to multiplayer?

I called BS on rumors that final game will be different from the beta after playing the beta all the way through to the final day of it a few days ago...just want to know what everyone noticed.

My copy should be ready but I did not get a chance to go pick it up yet...


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kilrbe3* 
Dear SC fans,

I am a FPS man, I admit, But I love me some good old Company Of Heroes and Command And Conquer Generals. Never touched SC1 before, but SC2 looks fun, its new, buddies are playing it, shoot, even some people IRL are playing SC2 that I never knew played games in the first place









So my question, how big is the learning curve? In CoH i never ever played MP, unless it was with friends. I liked playing against the computer at my own pace and build up a massive tank army and steam roll. Can I do that in SC2 as well, vs bots? Or is it MP and just SP.

Should I pick it up?
Anything I should watch like how to play SC2 in 3mins or something?

The learning curve is a bit steep, but you should be placed in one of the lower leagues, so you'll play with people your own skill level while getting better. Also, do the campaign, it'll help you with learning the game. Once I get my copy [CMON UPS, I SEE ITS OUT FOR DELIVERY, DAMN IT.. YOU SHOULD OF CAME TO MY HOUSE FIRST!!1!1 ONE!], I'll post my character code/name here. If you want to add me, we could do some 1v1s or 2v2s or even vs AI if you need tips.

Lemme know via PM if you need help... RTS iz awesome, and Starcraft is honestly the only RTS I play online.. or will play online


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
The learning curve is a bit steep, but you should be placed in one of the lower leagues, so you'll play with people your own skill level while getting better. Also, do the campaign, it'll help you with learning the game. Once I get my copy [CMON UPS, I SEE ITS OUT FOR DELIVERY, DAMN IT.. YOU SHOULD OF CAME TO MY HOUSE FIRST!!1!1 ONE!], I'll post my character code/name here. If you want to add me, we could do some 1v1s or 2v2s or even vs AI if you need tips.

Lemme know via PM if you need help... RTS iz awesome, and Starcraft is honestly the only RTS I play online.. or will play online

These kinds of posts are encouraging to us newcomers to SC 2. I would appreciate the help as well. My g/f's brother said he would help me out as well but man am I a newb at this game or what. I am seriously going to need a lot of help here hahah


----------



## bucdan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer* 
These kinds of posts are encouraging to us newcomers to SC 2. I would appreciate the help as well. My g/f's brother said he would help me out as well but man am I a newb at this game or what. I am seriously going to need a lot of help here hahah

It wont take long to learn it, after you get the tech trees down and basic unit functions youll be good to go. kinda like cs1.6 where vbuying equipment was hard and aiming... now it's easy.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bucdan* 
It wont take long to learn it, after you get the tech trees down and basic unit functions youll be good to go. kinda like cs1.6 where vbuying equipment was hard and aiming... now it's easy.

That's definitely true! My g/f's brother was showing me how to play SC 1 and he said I was doing really really well. I built up a huge army, but I then got discouraged when I went to attack the enemies base and got obliterated in about 5 mins.







I laughed and was like awww







My g/f's brother was like dude, you did a good job. For the first time playing the game, you really got micro and macro management down. LOL


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer* 
That's definitely true! My g/f's brother was showing me how to play SC 1 and he said I was doing really really well. I built up a huge army, but I then got discouraged when I went to attack the enemies base and got obliterated in about 5 mins.







I laughed and was like awww








My g/f's brother was like dude, you did a good job. For the first time playing the game, you really got micro and macro management down. LOL

Starcraft is also about timing. You'll learn when to attack and when to defend eventually. For now, remember one thing... keep harassing your enemy.. never let up









P.S. *** UPS.. ***?!


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Starcraft is also about timing. You'll learn when to attack and when to defend eventually. For now, remember one thing... keep harassing your enemy.. never let up









P.S. *** UPS.. ***?!

Will do! haha. I hope they show you some of this stuff in the tutorial.


----------



## Wishmaker

60 euros







.


----------



## bucdan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Starcraft is also about timing. You'll learn when to attack and when to defend eventually. For now, remember one thing... keep harassing your enemy.. never let up









P.S. *** UPS.. ***?!

haha nice... especially the workers, also, i try to deploy my C&C strategy here, it works out nicely sometimes. Wait for him to rush, have 2 armies, and one attacks their frontal assault while the other harrassses. the workers, meaning alot of flyers for me haha.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer* 
Will do! haha. I hope they show you some of this stuff in the tutorial.

Tutorial helps, but playing the rest of the campaign will help you more. It'll familiarize you with the tech trees and basic units, their strengths and counters. You'll probably be most familiar with Terran after the campaign; however, I suggest you play as random in your placement matches. This way, if you do decide to change races, and you suck at said race, you'll start out in the right league.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bucdan* 
haha nice... especially the workers, also, i try to deploy my C&C strategy here, it works out nicely sometimes. Wait for him to rush, have 2 armies, and one attacks their frontal assault while the other harrassses. the workers, meaning alot of flyers for me haha.

I play as random, but I use this strategy when I play zerg. I get Jaws Roaches and burrow under and pop up right under the enemy army.. Then I proceed to flank with speed lings.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Tutorial helps, but playing the rest of the campaign will help you more. It'll familiarize you with the tech trees and basic units, their strengths and counters. You'll probably be most familiar with Terran after the campaign; however, I suggest you play as random in your placement matches. This way, if you do decide to change races, and you suck at said race, you'll start out in the right league.

Hahahaha, this is definitely a good idea but I really really want to play as the zerg and protoss anyway. I was kind disappointed we are only getting the Terran campaign for now. So I won't have a problem switching it up in multiplayer. I really can't wait now. Maaaaaaan 4:30 can not come soon enough.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Well units in the campaing aren't all used in multiplayer.... Multiplayer is more classic and you can't upgrades the units..

I won't play too much campaign, cause I want to be good online


----------



## bucdan

overall im above par, i like all 3 races, protoss tops them all though. and then terran.


----------



## manny123

So im getting mixed messages, do you need to be constantly connected to the internet when playing the single player story campaign


----------



## _02

Is game length entirely determined by the strategy or is there a time limit of sorts on MP?

What is the average game length for non hardcore players?


----------



## r34p3rex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Is game length entirely determined by the strategy or is there a time limit of sorts on MP?

What is the average game length for non hardcore players?

Complete by strategy, I'd say half an hour on average.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Is game length entirely determined by the strategy or is there a time limit of sorts on MP?

What is the average game length for non hardcore players?

depends on how many players

1v1 lasts 10-20min average

2v2 lasts 10-40min average


----------



## NrGx

Anyone else realise how brutal this game is on systems? My Q9550 is overclocked to 4.0GHz and starts buckling when there's a 4v4 fight on screen and firebats start spraying everywhere.


----------



## Wishmaker

I did not like the first one, not even brood war but this one .... it is pure win!!! Epic game, Blizzard, once again, managed to create a blockbuster. Probably game of the year. I've done some reading about the Star Craft series and know all about Kerrigan







. Graphics on this one are amazing, the level of interaction and humour is spot on. I love the scroll zoom option and the attention to detail. Funny how the medic units are chicks. Their voices crack me up every time







. I don't like how CrossFire X works tho. On my sig rig, I am hitting 150 FPS in most areas but there are sudden dips into the high fifties and when I enabled V-SYNC, it dropped to 30 when the Yamamoto fighter, or whaterver it is called, came to the rescue. Guess we need better drivers from ATI!!!! Also, WTH is wrong with Afterburner??? It keeps on moving on my screen. It does not stay in the top left corner like in my other games.

P.S.: Is that a random chick on Tycus or something significant?


























I love the reporter and the propaganda


















This is where my frames halved due to poor drivers







. Probably when you have V-SYNC on. You dip under due to micro-stutter, you automatically get half the FPS in that instant







.


----------



## cgg123321

Hey I haven't read anything in this thread yet because I'm scared there will be spoilers. Just came here to ask a question:

Will the Collectors Edition sell out forever/entirely any time soon? Or will it sell for atleast a month or two.

Just wondering









edit: also, has anyone tried maxing out SC2 with a 8800gts 512mb G92 @ 1680x1050? Thanks!


----------



## VulcanDragon

Awesome so far. I mean, I suck...but it's still fun. Got killed on campaign #3 on Hard, I guess I fotgot how to play Starcraft in the last 10 years. No multiplayer yet, maybe this weekend when I have more time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hexa* 
I want to play this but for Single Player only. You guys know if there is any site that will let me (legally) down load the videos from the FIRST Star Craft so I can get cought up on the lore or story?

There is a thorough backstory given during the install process, plus it includes a maybe 8-page booklet labeled Quick Start that is actually nothing but history/lore.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kilrbe3* 
So my question, how big is the learning curve? In CoH i never ever played MP, unless it was with friends. I liked playing against the computer at my own pace and build up a massive tank army and steam roll. Can I do that in SC2 as well, vs bots? Or is it MP and just SP.

It has tutorial levels to play (which I skipped), tutorial movies you can watch at any time, and the campaign missions introduce you to units etc. slowly. So the learning curve is shallow I would say, but it is a long time before you reach the top of the curve. (Same with SC1.)

Quote:

Should I pick it up?
Without question!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bucdan* 
overall im above par, i like all 3 races, protoss tops them all though. and then terran.

In SC1, I always thought Protoss were the most powerful...but for some reason I always liked playing Zerg.


----------



## Greg121986

I will be getting this game eventually. I have a GTX 470 on the way that I will be using. Would I benefit from using one of my GTX 260s as a physX card? I have read that using another card for PhysX with a 400 series card is a lost cause because Nvidia really stepped up the physx performance with their newest drivers. Is this true? I am trying to sell the 260s but I am having a hard time selling them. I wouldn't mind keeping one if it would work well for physx.


----------



## doc2142

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Greg121986*


I will be getting this game eventually. I have a GTX 470 on the way that I will be using. Would I benefit from using one of my GTX 260s as a physX card? I have read that using another card for PhysX with a 400 series card is a lost cause because Nvidia really stepped up the physx performance with their newest drivers. Is this true? I am trying to sell the 260s but I am having a hard time selling them. I wouldn't mind keeping one if it would work well for physx.


I don't think this game has physx.


----------



## KoukiFC3S

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Greg121986*


I will be getting this game eventually. I have a GTX 470 on the way that I will be using. Would I benefit from using one of my GTX 260s as a physX card? I have read that using another card for PhysX with a 400 series card is a lost cause because Nvidia really stepped up the physx performance with their newest drivers. Is this true? I am trying to sell the 260s but I am having a hard time selling them. I wouldn't mind keeping one if it would work well for physx.


No Physx in SC2, but Mafia should take good advantage of it.


----------



## Greg121986

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doc2142*


I don't think this game has physx.


Doh. I saw a screen shot that showed physics settings and assumed that it would have PhysX.


----------



## arbalest

*Wishmaker,*

So your 4890 handles it well? Hoping my Toxic 4890's in CF don't dip down too bad







Gonna be picking it up in a couple days!


----------



## arctia

With my 4870 512mb, 1080p Ultra, no AA. I can definitely feel the slowdown whenever there are too many units on the map.

It really is a GREAT game. I was really surprised that campaign mode is no longer mission after mission after mission. I won't spoil it for the people who just started playing. Blizzard really put a lot of neat things in!

Playing it on normal mode. Not going to browse any more forums until I beat it.


----------



## KillerBeaz

i'm running everything at ultra on my 275 and it runs surprisingly well... the only time it slightly slows down is in the cutscenes but it's barely noticeable


----------



## Wavefunction

After a couple of hours playing some campaign mode, I can confidently say: this game is *disgustingly awesome*. That is all.


----------



## Photograph

I'm just waiting for my Collector's Edition to show up









I guess I'll just have to get by with SC-1 till then and look at all of your nice screen shots


----------



## ReaperMan

Wow.. the campaign.. is just wow.. Way over my expectations.


----------



## Sethy666

Just nabbed the last copy at the local Gamesmen









Now Im just hanging to get home after work to plaaaaaaaay!


----------



## Darkknight512

Lol, the employees at my local EBgames was like "Dude! Look at how old this pre-order is!"

I pre-ordered this game in 2008







.


----------



## doc2142

Holycrap there is 22 threads on the first page of PC GAMES about starcraft!!!!

THIS IS MADNESS!!! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!


----------



## m3th0d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doc2142*


holycrap there is 22 threads on the first page of pc games about starcraft!!!!

This is madness!!! This is sparta!!!!!


this is AIUR!!!


----------



## tuesday0108

Kind of wish all those units in single player could be used in multiplayer. Really miss the vulture unit.


----------



## tuesday0108

Quote:



Originally Posted by *manny123*


So im getting mixed messages, do you need to be constantly connected to the internet when playing the single player story campaign


No. If you're not connected you can still play campaign, but the achievements wont unlock.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arbalest*


*Wishmaker,*

So your 4890 handles it well? Hoping my Toxic 4890's in CF don't dip down too bad







Gonna be picking it up in a couple days!



I was shocked at the performance. We have similar clocks on the cards so I reckon, if we use the same driver 10.7, we will have roughly the same frame rate. Bear in mind two things tho :

1. My screen can't do more than 1600
2. I've yet to reach areas packed with units and ships.

I am not far in campaign mode







. I will try the Mass Effect 2 approach and run the game with XTENSION. Maybe running it like Crysis will balance the load, at all times, on both cards. Also,expect Star Craft 2 improvements in the next Catalyst or in the next HotFix. There were some concerns in 10.7 that CFX won't work well in Star Craft 2.


----------



## Fredy

Just finished the campaign. Just gotta say, cute happy ending, no bull**** cliffhanger, 
and I can say, the name Heart of the Swarm just got a whole different meaning.
Now to clean out my crusted-up eyes.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fredy*


Just finished the campaign. Just gotta say, cute happy ending, no bull**** cliffhanger, 
and I can say, the name Heart of the Swarm just got a whole different meaning.
Now to clean out my crusted-up eyes.


I was just gonna post this.

I suppose I can add that it's 2AM and I've been playing for 13 hours straight.

I will admit also, about 3/4 of the way through I got tired of playing and just wanted the story, so I cheated.

Looking forward to a fully honest campaign.

So. When does HotS come out? Also yes, it does have more than one meaning, now.


----------



## manny123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tuesday0108* 
No. If you're not connected you can still play campaign, but the achievements wont unlock.

Good to know because I already ordered it and then see some people saying it requires internet which I didn't feel was right to begin with but couldn't be sure. I'm gonna be playing on my laptop as well as my main machine so this was important.


----------



## nvidiagamer

I thought you had to be connected, even for the single player. Last night for about 30 seconds while playing single player. A message popped up on the left side of the screen and said waiting for battle.net to continue play... or something along those lines. I was like oh no, I hope the servers aren't down. After about 30 seconds, it cleared and said I could resume play. I'm just pointing this out.


----------



## Coma

It doesn't do that, you misunderstood.

It just tells you - the first time - that you won't get achievements. You can choose to wait or resume play without achievements. The second time it happens there's just a popup saying you've been disconnected.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
It doesn't do that, you misunderstood.

It just tells you - the first time - that you won't get achievements. You can choose to wait or resume play without achievements. The second time it happens there's just a popup saying you've been disconnected.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Although if I'm playing I really would like the achievements.


----------



## repo_man

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bak3donh1gh*


oooh free notepad! Actually usefull for me since the only notepad i had was really small.










Exactly what I thought when I opened the box! "Oh, _free notepad_. Nice...







:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Wow.. the campaign.. is just wow.. Way over my expectations.


That's what an IRL friend has told me. I cannot wait to get home and install this! I picked it up yesterday but had to study for my last final.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *repo_man*









Exactly what I thought when I opened the box! "Oh, _free notepad_. Nice...







:

That's what an IRL friend has told me. I cannot wait to get home and install this! I picked it up yesterday but had to study for my last final.










A final? You studied for your final instead of installing and playing this breath taking wonderful piece of art? Wow, I am impressed. hahahaa JP, finals are important.


----------



## repo_man

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer*


A final? You studied for your final instead of installing and playing this breath taking wonderful piece of art? Wow, I am impressed. hahahaa JP, finals are important.


LOL, I know right? Sacrilegious! Seriously though, I'm graduating Saturday and it was my last undergraduate final. I wanted to ace it, lol.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *repo_man*


LOL, I know right? Sacrilegious! Seriously though, I'm graduating Saturday and it was my last undergraduate final. I wanted to ace it, lol.

















Congrats!!! That's a great achievement!


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *repo_man* 
LOL, I know right? Sacrilegious! Seriously though, I'm graduating Saturday and it was my last undergraduate final. I wanted to ace it, lol.
















There are enough stories about "Baw I failed my test because I played Farmville all month!"

Good to see sense prevail









Now, you may melt you brain.


----------



## godofdeath

does the firebat need like a charge up time before they shoot out flames to do damage? like a gattling gun, or are the first traces from invisible fire?


----------



## repo_man

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
There are enough stories about "Baw I failed my test because I played Farmville all month!"

Good to see sense prevail










Now, you may melt you brain.









Ya know!? I'm heading home in 40 mins to rot my brain on zerg entrails.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
does the firebat need like a charge up time before they shoot out flames to do damage? like a gattling gun, or are the first traces from invisible fire?

I don't think so. I think they just have a cooldown between attacks.

"Mmm, barbeque."


----------



## thenailedone

Off in a few hours, will then try to get a digital copy... was unable to make a pre-download so I am pretty aprehensive to give out money and then maybe being unable to download... glad the SP sounds epic... so it doesn't matter if I suck at the MP


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


does the firebat need like a charge up time before they shoot out flames to do damage? like a gattling gun, or are the first traces from invisible fire?


I think they have a little bit of a delay. My hold micro seems delayed at least. More delayed than just marines.


----------



## NrGx

Trying to do the 'Outlaws' mission on hard at the moment. Just can't do it. There's that one bunker in the middle that can't be killed without like 20 marines and 20 medics. And, I have to do it in 10 minutes? Sigh.


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Trying to do the 'Outlaws' mission on hard at the moment. Just can't do it. There's that one bunker in the middle that can't be killed without like 20 marines and 20 medics. And, I have to do it in 10 minutes? Sigh.

Well this is just stupid can't do single player replays :S i do that level in 7min20s

Well you chain train marines and scv of the base, instantly move out with the starting marines and pick up minerals next to the cliff then move north and take out 3 guards and take minerals then build 2 racks ,1 depo and 1 tech lab for medics and move out when you have 10 rines~ 2 medics to rebel base clear it out then move out forward to enemy main base while chain making marines and medics to enemy base.

And if you want something insane don't miss a single train on Train Heist on Brutal difficulty!


----------



## Wishmaker

I am not an expert at games like these as I said before. I am having some difficulties in the Dominion train mission. I keep missing two trains and when the Dominion brings into play the "super soldiers"







I get my ass whupped. Moreover, the trains show up faster and faster and faster ....


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
I am not an expert at games like these as I said before. I am having some difficulties in the Dominion train mission. I keep missing two trains and when the Dominion brings into play the "super soldiers"







I get my ass whupped. Moreover, the trains show up faster and faster and faster ....


Make sure you build multiple barracks and also make sure you build lots of diamond backs. What I do isinglass addition to the diamondbacks, I have a force of marines and medics. I move them to block the track the train is taking and I place my diamond backs rigt behind the rines. So the rines clear the reinforcements and weak the train, while the diamond back finishes the train off. Also this way you don't lose diamondbacks to the train defense forces, by the time the trains grt fast, you should be able to have 15+ diamondbacks and 2 groups of marines and medics: one to block the northern tracks and one for the southern (the diamondbacks are fast enough to stay grouped and move from track to track) Also, if you're getting low on resources, take the base to the north west. One bunker with 4 rines in it is enough to defend. Good luck, I just finished the campaign and the ending is magnificent.


----------



## _02

Sorry, quick question.

What were the transfer rates like from Blizzard for digital copies?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Sorry, quick question.

What were the transfer rates like from Blizzard for digital copies?

Do you mean like download time? Friend said he left his to download overnight and when he woke up, it was finished


----------



## _02

Well I can start downloading here, but it needs to be finished in 7 hours.

Or I can go home, and start it there, but then I don't get to eat lunch









The goal - to be playing Starcraft at 8pm EST.


----------



## eno439

how do you check the fps you are getting in sc2?


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eno439* 
how do you check the fps you are getting in sc2?

Try Ctrl+alt+f


----------



## seward

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Sorry, quick question.

What were the transfer rates like from Blizzard for digital copies?

It's almost 7GB. With a DSL connection, I started downloading last night (guest pass)...when I left for work today, it said I still have 12 hours to go...I can normally get something that size within a few hours.

Slow.


----------



## wuddersup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seward* 
It's almost 7GB. With a DSL connection, I started downloading last night (guest pass)...when I left for work today, it said I still have 12 hours to go...I can normally get something that size within a few hours.

Slow.

You probably didn't configure your router correctly for Blizzard Downloader. Mine DLs at over a megabyte a second


----------



## adzsask

Quote:



Originally Posted by *seward*


It's almost 7GB. With a DSL connection, I started downloading last night (guest pass)...when I left for work today, it said I still have 12 hours to go...I can normally get something that size within a few hours.

Slow.


8meg down, 1 meg up DSL, took me 7-8 hours to DL it, well worth it though and MUCH HARDER then the original.


----------



## ReaperMan

Much Better too haha. The last mission was tough even on normal. Going l go home and try to beat it on hard haha... I think at the end I just slammed bunkers and turrets everywhere


----------



## MLJS54

Does anyone know of any good write-ups for advanced hotkey guides for SC2?

I finally started using hotkeys in SC2 (never did in SC1) and it's a world of difference.


----------



## _02

I was downloading near 1.5mbps - estimated time ~2 hours.

Should be ready to roll this evening. Too bad my remote session disconnected so I can't run the installer before I get home.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Make sure you build multiple barracks and also make sure you build lots of diamond backs. What I do isinglass addition to the diamondbacks, I have a force of marines and medics. I move them to block the track the train is taking and I place my diamond backs rigt behind the rines. So the rines clear the reinforcements and weak the train, while the diamond back finishes the train off. Also this way you don't lose diamondbacks to the train defense forces, by the time the trains grt fast, you should be able to have 15+ diamondbacks and 2 groups of marines and medics: one to block the northern tracks and one for the southern (the diamondbacks are fast enough to stay grouped and move from track to track) Also, if you're getting low on resources, take the base to the north west. One bunker with 4 rines in it is enough to defend. Good luck, I just finished the campaign and the ending is magnificent.



Thanks a million. REP +. I will try that when I have time. It seems I had the wrong strategy









Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


Sorry, quick question.

What were the transfer rates like from Blizzard for digital copies?



I had 10-12 MB/s so it did not take long to get the game. The kit is a tad over 7 gigs and the install a tad over 12 GB.


----------



## r34p3rex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I am not an expert at games like these as I said before. I am having some difficulties in the Dominion train mission. I keep missing two trains and when the Dominion brings into play the "super soldiers"







I get my ass whupped. Moreover, the trains show up faster and faster and faster ....


Make sure you have an "expedition" force going around collecting the salvage scraps. By the time the last train came, I was at 199/200 supply







Tons of diamondbacks, marauders/marines/medics


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r34p3rex*


Make sure you have an "expedition" force going around collecting the salvage scraps. By the time the last train came, I was at 199/200 supply







Tons of diamondbacks, marauders/marines/medics











I will restart the mission and follow the advice given in this thread.


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm try to claw my way into Silver league in the 1v1 ladder. The ranking system is really weird, I got put against a Platinum league player earlier today. At the time I was around 50 in Bronze. Since then I've made it up to 17 in Bronze, and right now I'm back at 20.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


Does anyone know of any good write-ups for advanced hotkey guides for SC2?

I finally started using hotkeys in SC2 (never did in SC1) and it's a world of difference.


Something like this guide for Protoss? I know I've seen one like that for all 3 races, I'll try to track it down.

Also,


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


I'm try to claw my way into Silver league in the 1v1 ladder. The ranking system is really weird, I got put against a Platinum league player earlier today. At the time I was around 50 in Bronze. Since then I've made it up to 17 in Bronze, and right now I'm back at 20.

Something like this guide for Protoss? I know I've seen one like that for all 3 races, I'll try to track it down.

Also,


















Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. Btw, does anyone have the camera mapped to W,A,S,D? I'm thinking of mapping it to those keys and using the letters around them for build keys.


----------



## Wishmaker

Using your hand like that is not easy







.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. Btw, does anyone have the camera mapped to W,A,S,D? I'm thinking of mapping it to those keys and using the letters around them for build keys.


Camera hotkeys? I just double tap the number I have my buildings / units mapped to, and it jumps right to them. Example: Command Center mapped to 1, I press 1,1 and the camera jumps to my Command Center.

I use the default hotkeys. A for Marine and such.


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


I'm try to claw my way into Silver league in the 1v1 ladder. The ranking system is really weird, I got put against a Platinum league player earlier today. At the time I was around 50 in Bronze. Since then I've made it up to 17 in Bronze, and right now I'm back at 20.

Something like this guide for Protoss? I know I've seen one like that for all 3 races, I'll try to track it down.

Also,


















Is that picture real?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zulli85*


Isn't there already a SCII discussion thread somewhere? Maybe not.

Don't. Its not needed at all. My sig rig runs the game at 1920x1200 at high or ultra settings like butter.


I'm on the verge of getting one tomorrow and need any and every excuse I can to get it.


----------



## seward

Quote:



Originally Posted by *seward*


It's almost 7GB. With a DSL connection, I started downloading last night (guest pass)...when I left for work today, it said I still have 12 hours to go...I can normally get something that size within a few hours.

Slow.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *wuddersup*


You probably didn't configure your router correctly for Blizzard Downloader. Mine DLs at over a megabyte a second


Disabled peer-to-peer, it's flying now.

That was counter-intuitive.

Probably would have had it before I went to sleep last night if only I'd known...


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *seward*


Disabled peer-to-peer, it's flying now.

That was counter-intuitive.

Probably would have had it before I went to sleep last night if only I'd known...


I was just coming to post this.

My transfer dropped to 800kbps. I disabled peer to peer and it shot up to 1.7mbps.


----------



## Wishmaker

I finished the train mission







. Thanks lads. I had so many diamond thingies







. Next mission


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I will restart the mission and follow the advice given in this thread.


Also, I went around destroying the bunkers before the train came so they didn't bother me later. As stated before, Diamondbacks are hardcore and do heaps of damage and you need lots especially when they send the speed train









Grats on finishing it


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I finished the train mission







. Thanks lads. I had so many diamond thingies







. Next mission


----------



## Nexus6

BAH!!!! I have the disappearing unit glitch. It seems it only happens to ATI 58xx and 5970 cards. Game is still playable but I can't see my unit most of the time and some parts of the map are unreachable.
I've already uninstalled and installed the game 3x and still the same result.
Who else is experiencing this glitch????


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Camera hotkeys? I just double tap the number I have my buildings / units mapped to, and it jumps right to them. Example: Command Center mapped to 1, I press 1,1 and the camera jumps to my Command Center.

I use the default hotkeys. A for Marine and such.


Got it. So say you double tap to one of your control groups outside of your base do you then use the mouse to move them or M and use the arrow keys? If so, how do you "select" with the keyboard, if it all possible?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


Got it. So say you double tap to one of your control groups outside of your base do you then use the mouse to move them or M and use the arrow keys? If so, how do you "select" with the keyboard, if it all possible?


No no, I was saying I either double tap a control group OR use the mouse to click the minimap where I want to go. One or the other.

If you are looking at your base but you have a control group of units on the "4" key, and you press "4,4" as in double tap 4, your view will move to where those units are, and they will also be selected. Then if I wanted those units to move somewhere, I would press M and click where I wanted them to go. If I wanted them to attack a specific target, I'd press A and then click something.

I hope I'm helping.


----------



## MindOfChaos

Is it possible to give both of the Starcraft 2 trial keys to one person so they can play for 14 hours instead of just 7?

I want to see how SC2 Runs on my little bros computer. His core i3 HD5770 should be able to run it alot nice than mine


----------



## Aluc13

I was just wondering how does the trial for Starcraft II work? Is it only for multiplayer? I'm not much of an online gamer at all. I like the single player experience.


----------



## Heret|c

Multiplayer = incredible
Single player = mediocre
Story = good
Graphics = bad
Cinematics = incredible

In essense, it is a graphical update for a very old game, that became hugely popular with Koreans for some unbenkownst reason. I would only recommend it if you happen to consider original SC a God's Gift to Humanity, otherwise steer clear.

Don't forget you are not buying the single player game in all of its' entirety,
but only 1/3 of a game, and you will be forced to wait years to finish up the story, and forced to buy expansions.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Multiplayer = incredible
Single player = mediocre
Story = good
Graphics = bad
Cinematics = incredible

In essense, it is a graphical update for a very old game, that became hugely popular with Koreans for some unbenkownst reason. I would only recommend it if you happen to consider original SC a God's Gift to Humanity.

If you are not one of those fans and you enjoy single player mostly steer clear.


Graphics are not bad. They are good for a RTS. Watch the DVD that comes with collector edition and they will explain what happens if they did better graphics. Also they story and the ending is fantastic. Cant wait for the zerg one.


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Multiplayer = incredible
Single player = mediocre
Story = good
Graphics = bad
Cinematics = incredible

In essense, it is a graphical update for a very old game, that became hugely popular with Koreans for some unbenkownst reason. I would only recommend it if you happen to consider original SC a God's Gift to Humanity, otherwise steer clear.

Don't forget you are not buying the single player game in all of its' entirety,
but only 1/3 of a game, and you will be forced to wait years to finish up the story, and forced to buy expansions.


I doubt you played it. SP offers from 8 hours (since there is achievment for completing single player in 8hours on medium) to 40~ hours at least for me since i played on brutal. The sp is night and day difference to the original in quality. There is not a single RTS game that could even come close to SC2 in single player storytelling, execution and depth.

Graphics are really good knowing how many things are moving at the same time at high level. And it will definitely be improved upon release of heart of swarm.


----------



## murderbymodem

Why the hell does everyone keep complaining about Starcraft 2's graphics? The graphics are on par with every other RTS lately. Starcraft 2 looks just as good if not better than Supreme Commander 2, and it's also a better game.


----------



## ohzer0

I'd buy/play this game if I were even remotely good at RTS.

Ill hold off til some decent UMS's to come out and for a possible price drop (?)









This game looks amazing though so I agree I dont know what all the fuss is about.


----------



## SVCweyman

You can waste a few hours just playing the arcade machine in the Cantina on the Hyperion


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SVCweyman*


You can waste a few hours just playing the arcade machine in the Cantina on the Hyperion










Hmm, glad I wasn't the only one who did that


----------



## NrGx

I have no complaints about the graphics in this game at all. They are fantastic for an RTS. On Ultra, my sig rig starts getting really strained when there is a 4v4 battle on screen with like 700 units.


----------



## The Mad Mule

You know you suck when you can't even win against a CPU on Medium.









No matter how hard I try, they always seem to build faster than me.

I managed to fight off two small waves of them before I was overwhelmed, so that's a new record for me, sadly.

*EDIT:* Huzzah, I finally beat it. It asked to accept a surrender, but I was so bloodthirsty I said no and spent the next five minutes tearing up its empty base.


----------



## MindOfChaos

I'm loving all these new players on SC... Its good to win at a game again. Getting about 60% wins to losses in 1v1 games at the moment. Hope to improve apon that.


----------



## Realcacheese

I bought the collector's edition @ midnight and I finished the campaign last night on brutal. I got the achiev and my sarah kerrigan portrait.








For anyone who hasn't bought it yet or played the SP. Play it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The gameplay is great, the missions are interesting and have you do lots of different things, the cinematics are well-done, and the story is great too (imo).


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MindOfChaos* 
I'm loving all these new players on SC... Its good to win at a game again. Getting about 60% wins to losses in 1v1 games at the moment. Hope to improve apon that.

I love playing against people who didn't have beta. Gives me a foot up haha


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I am going to star MP ranged games once people get a bit better. Hate getting pared up with noobs and fighting noobs. Sometimes i lose because i take it too easy and forget that the game is still on.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
I am going to star MP ranged games once people get a bit better. Hate getting pared up with noobs and fighting noobs. Sometimes i lose because i take it too easy and forget that the game is still on.

Yah same


----------



## MindOfChaos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
I love playing against people who didn't have beta. Gives me a foot up haha









I wish i had the Beta ;(. Most of my losses were just from me getting used to the new units.

Only just managed to get a PC capable of SC2 a week before it came out







.


----------



## ReaperMan

So I'm afraid to go to sleep because I think I saw a bed bug on my mattress.. not sure though.. not sure....... gonna wait til daylight til those blood sucking monsters go to sleep.... now time for more starcraft.. I almost just lost to a 6 ling + drone attack due to sleep deprivation...


----------



## MindOfChaos

I heard some one say that the first 5 games you play multiplayer decide what league you are in.

So if I play like crap my first 5 games and lose each one does that mean I will get to PWN noobies forever?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MindOfChaos* 
I heard some one say that the first 5 games you play multiplayer decide what league you are in.

So if I play like crap my first 5 games and lose each one does that mean I will get to PWN noobies forever?


Yah you get to PWN Noobiez lol. The total score of the game also goes into account, so lose quick! But on a serious note, as soon as you pwn a few noobz you'll move up in your league and play people on your level


----------



## MindOfChaos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Yah you get to PWN Noobiez lol. The total score of the game also goes into account, so lose quick! But on a serious note, as soon as you pwn a few noobz you'll move up in your league and play people on your level









Darn that takes all the fun out of it.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MindOfChaos* 
I heard some one say that the first 5 games you play multiplayer decide what league you are in.

So if I play like crap my first 5 games and lose each one does that mean I will get to PWN noobies forever?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MindOfChaos* 
Darn that takes all the fun out of it.

tell me about it


----------



## Wishmaker

I reckon after I finish the Terrain Campaign I will have access to Protoss or Zerg. Am I right or Blizzard is taking the DLC path?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
I reckon after I finish the Terrain Campaign I will have access to Protoss or Zerg. Am I right or Blizzard is taking the DLC path?

What do you mean? As in play the Protoss/Zerg Campaign? Because the campaign is only the Terran storyline. The next storyline will be that of the zerg, and it'll be released with an expansion I think, called Heart of the Swarm. The expansion doesn't effect multiplayer [as in nothing about multi player will change, so you can still play multiplayer without buying xpac], but you can't play the continued storyline.


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
What do you mean? As in play the Protoss/Zerg Campaign? Because the campaign is only the Terran storyline. The next storyline will be that of the zerg, and it'll be released with an expansion I think, called Heart of the Swarm. The expansion doesn't effect multiplayer [as in nothing about multi player will change, so you can still play multiplayer without buying xpac], but you can't play the continued storyline.

Nah it will add couple new multiplayer units just like Brood war did, but i might be wrong.


----------



## MindOfChaos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
What do you mean? As in play the Protoss/Zerg Campaign? Because the campaign is only the Terran storyline. The next storyline will be that of the zerg, and it'll be released with an expansion I think, called Heart of the Swarm. The expansion doesn't effect multiplayer [as in nothing about multi player will change, so you can still play multiplayer without buying xpac], but you can't play the continued storyline.

Are you sure it doesn't effect multiplayer?

Broodwars added new units and completely changed how Starcraft 1 was played.

I hope they don't add new units because then I won't have any reason to buy it







.... Unless they ad LAN support with it...


----------



## Xealot

I am loving the SP. It has been taking up most of my gaming time since release and I am only about halfway through. The final prophecy mission is epic!


----------



## Polska

I have come across a little tidbit which may interest some of you. This may be old news to some of you, but I was not aware of it. I knew there were SC2 issues with overheating, but all I heard of it in the past was faulty nvidia drivers. Well I came across this small fix that caps the framerate in the menus (30 fps) and ingame (60 fps). Now my card no longer site at 100% load no matter where I am. It is basically just a frame limiter so you aren't pumping out unnecessary 900 fps during loading/menus. Your graphics card may thank me. You can edit the values to your own liking, these work well for me.

Place the values below in:
Documents\\StarCraft II\\Variables.txt

frameratecapglue=30
frameratecap=60


----------



## pjBSOD

Just bought it, installing it now. Hopefully I won't regret this.


----------



## _02

Having never played SC1, and the last RTS I've played being the first C&C, I didn't know what to expect. I played about 2 hours on a guest pass last night. I'm thoroughly impressed with the attention to detail and the polish put into everything from the voice acting to the menus.

It reeks of quality, I'm excited to finish the campaign and pound on people in MP.

I don't understand how the install is taking an hour or more for people, unless they are actually talking about the 6.6gb digital download. I installed in literally less than 10 minutes. Probably more like 5.


----------



## arctia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polska* 
I have come across a little tidbit which may interest some of you. This may be old news to some of you, but I was not aware of it. I knew there were SC2 issues with overheating, but all I heard of it in the past was faulty nvidia drivers. Well I came across this small fix that caps the framerate in the menus (30 fps) and ingame (60 fps). Now my card no longer site at 100% load no matter where I am. It is basically just a frame limiter so you aren't pumping out unnecessary 900 fps during loading/menus. Your graphics card may thank me. You can edit the values to your own liking, these work well for me.

Place the values below in:
Documents\\StarCraft II\\Variables.txt

frameratecapglue=30
frameratecap=60

I just turn on Vsync. Seems to work well enough for me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Having never played SC1, and the last RTS I've played being the first C&C, I didn't know what to expect. I played about 2 hours on a guest pass last night. I'm thoroughly impressed with the attention to detail and the polish put into everything from the voice acting to the menus.

It reeks of quality, I'm excited to finish the campaign and pound on people in MP.

I don't understand how the install is taking an hour or more for people, unless they are actually talking about the 6.6gb digital download. I installed in literally less than 10 minutes. Probably more like 5.

You have a RAID 0







Took me maybe 6-8 minutes on my ancient non-SSD hard drive.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Installation only took about 10 mins for me as well. And I just have regular non SSD drives.


----------



## CHUNKYBOWSER

Does anybody have a spare guest/trial pass? XD I'm a big fan of CNC but never played Starcraft.


----------



## Wishmaker

There is a rumor on the net that if you don't play with V-SYNC, you might overheat your cards. People are saying that the cards overheat in the menus and places where fps end up in the hundreds







. In the cantina game, I was hitting over 300 FPS but my cards were not overheating according to Afterburner. Should I worry?


----------



## nlsthzn

Finally got the game installed after I bought it but the digital download didn't want to work, so it took some torrent downloading and virus side-stepping but it was well worth it.










_Screenshot from the SC2 Fansite kit... These Terran are going down... (thought I would toss in a screenshot seeing as there seems to be a lack of them currently







_


----------



## calavera

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


There is a rumor on the net that if you don't play with V-SYNC, you might overheat your cards. People are saying that the cards overheat in the menus and places where fps end up in the hundreds







. In the cantina game, I was hitting over 300 FPS but my cards were not overheating according to Afterburner. Should I worry?


I wouldn't.


----------



## SVCweyman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CHUNKYBOWSER*


Does anybody have a spare guest/trial pass? XD I'm a big fan of CNC but never played Starcraft.


Big thread with many people giving away guest passes. You can try your luck there as well









http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...currentpage=68


----------



## _02

I'm giving away mine too, here:
http://www.overclock.net/freebies/78...st-passes.html


----------



## Coma

My little brother's not letting me play, ugh. He plays all the timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Tomorrow I'm not letting him play one second.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Question about the multiplayer. So, if you play your placement matches and you suck. You get placed in the lowest league. However, if you keep improving at the game and start winning matches left and right. Do they take you out of that leauge and put you in the next highest one? Or are you stuck there?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer*


Question about the multiplayer. So, if you play your placement matches and you suck. You get placed in the lowest league. However, if you keep improving at the game and start winning matches left and right. Do they take you out of that leauge and put you in the next highest one? Or are you stuck there?


As you start to win more and more matches, you will move up in your own league. Once you move up far enough, you will be move to the next league with a rank of like 100 or 90.


----------



## Polska

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


There is a rumor on the net that if you don't play with V-SYNC, you might overheat your cards. People are saying that the cards overheat in the menus and places where fps end up in the hundreds







. In the cantina game, I was hitting over 300 FPS but my cards were not overheating according to Afterburner. Should I worry?


I wouldn't worry too much. However, I have been playing a sickening amount of SC2 since release, and I don't like to see my card sitting at 99% usage constantly, even if the temps are in an acceptable range ( < 75C). I put in the limiter I mentioned for peace of mind.


----------



## mth91

I just won the campaign finally. It was a really great campaign. The last mission was a killer though, even when playing on normal. I used a bunch of banshees (at least I think that's what they're called, the cloaking helis that only shoot ground units)


----------



## SVCweyman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer*


Question about the multiplayer. So, if you play your placement matches and you suck. You get placed in the lowest league. However, if you keep improving at the game and start winning matches left and right. Do they take you out of that leauge and put you in the next highest one? Or are you stuck there?


Yes, as you win more, you will be promoted to other leagues. As you win more games, you will be matched with "stronger" players who may or may not be in different leagues.

If you continue to beat stronger players, the system will continue to match you against stronger and stronger players. You can be in Gold and play against Diamond players if you are on a streak.

No one really knows how the promotion system works just yet. But if you are doing good, you'll eventually get promoted.

Your rating is also carried over to some extent. You won't start at zero points, but it will balance your points based on that league, not sure how that works exactly either. But if you have like 400 points in Bronze and go to silver, you'll still have like 200-300 points and may still be ranked very high.

The ranking is pretty BS though as new leagues are created all the time. You can be rank 1 in your league but be rank 40 in a different league.

I'm in Diamond, but when I lose a few games, I start playing Platinum players who were on a winning streak. (Some of which are normally Diamond players anyways but just get placed in Platinum because that's the highest league you can be placed in.)

If anyone is curious of their overall ranking, there are fansites being created that are combining data from different leagues to give an overall ranking system. They are still in progress so the database isn't anywhere near complete.


----------



## Genzel

Does the digital download come with a guest pass? Where is it if so? I was just wondering so I can gift it or give it to a 35 repper for a larger freebie thread.

edit for: I suck hard at mp. Haven't played SC for 7 years. It's still fun though.


----------



## Mac the Geek

What's in the retail box?

Budget issues will keep me on the sidelines for at least another week; when I'm finally able to buy, I'll have to choose between the retail box and the direct purchase. On the one hand, I like the idea of spreading the cheese around the whole retail chain; on the other hand, I won't have to pay tax on a direct sale.

So to help me break the tie, I'm wondering exactly what I would get in the retail box. Is it really barebones (just the DVD in a paper sleeve), or is there more? I saw a couple of the CE boxes when I was walking around Wallyworld the other night - man, those suckers are heavy. Must be nice to be able to buy hardcover art books with your computer games.


----------



## ReaperMan

The Standard edition of the retail box has the CD of the game, 2 guest passes to WoW and SC 2, A notepad with a wanted sign for Jim Raynor on it, and a small manual for the game.


----------



## trivium nate

i love this game was getting my ass kicked earlier though


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
The Standard edition of the retail box has the CD of the game, 2 guest passes to WoW and SC 2, A notepad with a wanted sign for Jim Raynor on it, and a small manual for the game.

What's the notepad look like? Just curious cause I bought CE.


----------



## ReaperMan




----------



## calavera

that looks like it will change color when it's dipped in water or something? lol

on a side note, SC2 does seem to heat up the graphics card when in menus where the FPS can skyrocket to 300 fps or so. Prolonged menu = 99% graphic card use = unnecessary heat. But the stupid thing is when you turn on Vsync to cap the fps at 60, you seem to get more unstable frames during gameplay. can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Wishmaker

10.7A out , anyone have some feedback?


----------



## godofdeath

anyone got any tips on surviving long enough on the last protoss mission?


----------



## sorage

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calavera* 
that looks like it will change color when it's dipped in water or something? lol

on a side note, SC2 does seem to heat up the graphics card when in menus where the FPS can skyrocket to 300 fps or so. Prolonged menu = 99% graphic card use = unnecessary heat. But the stupid thing is when you turn on Vsync to cap the fps at 60, you seem to get more unstable frames during gameplay. can anyone confirm this?

There is an important fix for this...

I dont remember where i seen this but you have to add something in a txt file to cap the fps to 60


----------



## NrGx

YouTube- Starcraft 2 Soundtrack - Terran 04
Anyone else love this theme? It's such an epic feeling when you building and this kind of acoustic/orchestral stuff comes on.

Blizzard have taken this game to the next level.


----------



## Nirran

The fix is easy, add the following lines to your "My Documents\\StarCraft II\\variables.txt" file:

frameratecapglue=30
frameratecap=60

That should stop your gpu from running hot during the menus.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


anyone got any tips on surviving long enough on the last protoss mission?


Make alot of phoenixes, and use zealots as meat shields with colosi in the back. What i did was I had 2 control groups of phoenixes in the center. Wherever the attack took place, I sent my phoenixes there. I used the gravitron beams on the phoenixes to pick up all the hybrids and other strong units and kill them with my phoenixes/stalkers/carriers. This way they hybrids can't do damage. It works wonders, just use G as the hot key and lift up all the hybrids with your phoenixes..

Hope this helps


----------



## Coma

Make some Stalkers, spam Zealots after that. Constantly produce Collossi from the Robotic Facilities in your base.

Use the Phoenix allies to take out Brood Lords. When your Void Ray allies come, use shift-queue to focus down Hybrids.

You should have 8-10 Gateways. If they attack from 2 directions early on, you can warp in 10 zealots and send them to the second direction. They can hold them off long enough for you to clean up the other side and come defend that side. Later on you can use the Carrier allies to help those Zealots. I also started producing Carriers at that point.


----------



## thiru

Can anyone tell me how exactly the regions work? does it depend on your DVD/download source, or when you create a profile? can it be bypassed if you want to play an unranked game with friends?


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can anyone tell me how exactly the regions work? does it depend on your DVD/download source, or when you create a profile? can it be bypassed if you want to play an unranked game with friends?


Depends on where you buy it from. And no, you cannot play across server/client.

If you want, you can import a copy from another region.


----------



## thiru

That sucks... thanks.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Seeing how well the game runs with a stock Q6600 + 8800GS on high i am going to try it in my laptop on low.


----------



## godofdeath

ugh how do i get the 2000 kills?
i got to around 1500 before i got wiped out

and of course zeratul dies first lol


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
ugh how do i get the 2000 kills?
i got to around 1500 before i got wiped out

and of course zeratul dies first lol

Try the phoenix micro







Worked like a charm for me. The phoenixes can shoot down the mutas and brood lords, AND help kill the hybrids.


----------



## godofdeath

i did sorta
i had a buncha stalkers n zealots
then got more collosi
then got a buncha carriers/void/pheonix
though it is terribly hard to micro with the stupid interceptors everywhere


----------



## dcloud

Get Dark Templars! I did not do this, but my friend said he just did. I never even thought of that! But they'll slice through them like pizza! Eventually, Overseers will show up, but it should help you get pass 2000.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dcloud* 
Get Dark Templars! I did not do this, but my friend said he just did. I never even thought of that! But they'll slice through them like pizza! Eventually, Overseers will show up, but it should help you get pass 2000.

They're too expensive to be worth it. Overseers show up after like 400 kills, and you can't justify warping in DTs when they're not even good tanks. They do a lot of damage, but they get picked off so easily and die so fast. I just did the phoenix micro and it worked for me.. I made a loooot of phoenixes, like I know that you get some when the hero comes in, but I made more in addition to that.

carriers might not be a bad idea either; and make sure you use the vortex feature on the mother ship. I just vortexed one side and held off with zealots while I cleaned up the other side and then turned my attention to the first side.

<3 mothership


----------



## iCeMaN57

Love the game! I can run it maxed out on my Phenom II rig with no issues.


----------



## Noir

Anyody know how to reduce the Graphics of Zerg Creeps???

It REALLY eats a LOT of GPU power. From 60 FPS using Terran and Protoss to 30 FPS using Zerg


----------



## hout17

I have to say that Starcraft 2 looks like a pretty sick game. I used to be hooked on the old school one back in my college days and I might have to dabble a bit in this one. !!!!


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
ugh how do i get the 2000 kills?
i got to around 1500 before i got wiped out

and of course zeratul dies first lol

Try the tactic I posted. None of my heroes died before I lost ALL my buildings, and I only had to retreat to the higher ground a while after the Archives went underground (on Hard).


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

My solution to last protoss mission enclosed below...



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



I had to try a couple of times to get the 2000 Kills. But i used quite a few dark templars. As they are clocked you can block the zerg crossing the bridges with them while they slice them up. Just be sure to keep your Pheonix craft on standby to take care of any overseers that can detect the templars.

That worked for a while but towards the end i switched to the carriers instead and retreated to the high groud. I kept the archives alive for long enough to get the achievement. I also spammed a lot of turrets on the high ground to slow the zerg down while my carriers blasted them.

I managed to get about 2231 kills, I was 19 off the extra 250 achievement although you only need to be on normal for it so I could go back to try it on normal.



Edit to add spoiler tags









Hope this helps,
Matt


----------



## NrGx

Spoiler tags or die. I'm adding it to the front post as well.


----------



## iCeMaN57

In action


----------



## Wishmaker

Any hints for the contract mission? I am fed up, I tried the whole night yesterday, I simply can't secure the contract. I crippled the dude, destroyed every base and created my bases where his were, then I go to his base to kick his tushy and he PWNZ0rZ me every time. The cruiser and siege tanks are a bit over my payroll







. I had two squads of marauders and he simply slayed them without any effort. Okay, I destroyed half his base but that is not important if you lost all your units and have no minerals







.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Any hints for the contract mission? I am fed up, I tried the whole night yesterday, I simply can't secure the contract. I crippled the dude, destroyed every base and created my bases where his were, then I go to his base to kick his tushy and he PWNZ0rZ me every time. The cruiser and siege tanks are a bit over my payroll







. I had two squads of marauders and he simply slayed them without any effort. Okay, I destroyed half his base but that is not important if you lost all your units and have no minerals







.


Do you mean the rebellion missions where you have to get that colonel guy to decode the message from that robot for your? The one where you need to get a certain amount of minerals to hire Mira Han, the mercenary?


----------



## trivium nate

im doing that mission to


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Do you mean the rebellion missions where you have to get that colonel guy to decode the message from that robot for your? The one where you need to get a certain amount of minerals to hire Mira Han, the mercenary?



Spot on


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Spot on










best way to get up to sieged siege tanks is too stim and run right up on them, past their zero range. If you have multiple seige tanks, find their positions and send like 4 marauders to each. Like 4 vikings can take a battlecruiser or a group of marines. Oh ya have medics around. You really shouldn't have that much trouble though, I never needed to plan out a strat through the whole campaign. Are you playing on Hard?


----------



## ReaperMan

I just did mass marines and marauders. Soni used hiss siege breaker tanks. Took out the tanks first and stilled the rines to take out rest. The planetary fortress I took down with seige tanks. Also be sure to elfin around the map with vultures picking up the salvage minerals and gas. Alot of the salvage respawns so you can keep getting it


----------



## r34p3rex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


I just did mass marines and marauders. Soni used hiss siege breaker tanks. Took out the tanks first and stilled the rines to take out rest. The planetary fortress I took down with seige tanks. Also be sure to elfin around the map with vultures picking up the salvage minerals and gas. Alot of the salvage respawns so you can keep getting it


Yup, marines and marauders. Also had some goliaths and tanks. I built up to almost 200 supply and owned him.. he couldn't get near me


----------



## Wishmaker

I managed to get the 6000 and whipped his ass







. I was trying to win without recruiting that woman merc


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


anyone got any tips on surviving long enough on the last protoss mission?


Mass colossus and voidray, hole up on low ground until you get archive, then move up. Gives you one choke instead of 3 so its much easier. Colossus rapes ground units and voidrays focus down the hybrids. Get some phoenix to counter air units and carriers just because they're awesome.










What are your guys records?
My first try was 50 minutes with ~2700 kills on normal. Didn't retreat though and got raped when they started sending units from all 3 chokes. Don't really want to spend the time to try again.










Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Any hints for the contract mission? I am fed up, I tried the whole night yesterday, I simply can't secure the contract. I crippled the dude, destroyed every base and created my bases where his were, then I go to his base to kick his tushy and he PWNZ0rZ me every time. The cruiser and siege tanks are a bit over my payroll







. I had two squads of marauders and he simply slayed them without any effort. Okay, I destroyed half his base but that is not important if you lost all your units and have no minerals







.


My strategy was to build up ~8 vultures and scavenge the map where the enemy didn't have their bases up. Vultures usually could just run in and pick off their scvs so their income was really low. Got 6000 minerals that way and my only defense was like 4 siege tanks and 2 filled 6 man bunkers with turret upgrade. Then I just abandoned my first base and massed siege tanks + marine/medic from the merc's base to kill the fortress.

Does anyone actually use mercs? They're good, but not as good as heros in SCI, and the cooldown time to build them is ridiculous. I used my credits on more armory upgrades instead.


----------



## Wishmaker

I must suck badly at this game. What is the secret of fast development? I am at the purifier mission and I destroy the Nexi but the damn purifier is in my base cleaning up. By the time I return with the Vikings that thing has charged the weapon halfway. I've no cruiser, no siege tanks, no ships, only vikings which suck if I'm honest. The Protoss rock!!

I have the impression the Terran race in SC II is, once again like in SC I, a bit behind weapon wise







.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I must suck badly at this game. What is the secret of fast development? I am at the purifier mission and I destroy the Nexi but the damn purifier is in my base cleaning up. By the time I return with the Vikings that thing has charged the weapon halfway. I've no cruiser, no siege tanks, no ships, only vikings which suck if I'm honest. The Protoss rock!!

I have the impression the Terran race in SC II is, once again like in SC I, a bit behind weapon wise







.


??

The purifier has to kill 3 colonies before it reaches your base

What I did was just build a fleet of ~6 vikings. Two of the 3 bases have high ground next to the nexus where you can pick the nexus off with your vikings by landing them and run no risk of getting attacked. Last nexus has some forest behind it so just build some banshees and pick it off. There's like 4 carriers there so you'll need vikings for support. Then just focus the mothership down with 12 vikings and you win.










I had siege tanks when I did that mission though, I guess I went through a different mission order than you did.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


??

The purifier has to kill 3 colonies before it reaches your base

What I did was just build a fleet of ~6 vikings. Two of the 3 bases have high ground next to the nexus where you can pick the nexus off with your vikings by landing them and run no risk of getting attacked. Last nexus has some forest behind it so just build some banshees and pick it off. There's like 4 carriers there so you'll need vikings for support. Then just focus the mothership down with 12 vikings and you win.










I had siege tanks when I did that mission though, I guess I went through a different mission order than you did.



I played the mission 5 times and I know the order by heart. What I do is take 3 SCVs and build 4 turrets around each departing ship. These turrets take care of the attacking carriers without losing any vikings. I save the colonies and then I build up my fleet of Vikings. I had over 20 and went to clean up the nexi. When I get there, you have some interesting looking things attacking you even when you are parked on the high ground. From over 20, I lose 3-4 at every nexus and then get PWNED in my base because the purifier is hard to kill. In addition, The Protoss troops destroy my bunkers very fast ....

If I don't find a way soon, I will do HAVEN in a different order. I need some better weapons.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I must suck badly at this game. What is the secret of fast development? I am at the purifier mission and I destroy the Nexi but the damn purifier is in my base cleaning up. By the time I return with the Vikings that thing has charged the weapon halfway. I've no cruiser, no siege tanks, no ships, only vikings which suck if I'm honest. The Protoss rock!!

I have the impression the Terran race in SC II is, once again like in SC I, a bit behind weapon wise







.


With the Purifier mission, you need to start early and build quickly. The first nexus is really poorly defended and you can practically kill it with your starting force. Keep about 4 Vikings to kill the protoss fleets that try to attack the colonies.

You will lose the first few colonies, don't worry. Also, to kill the Purifier, use Vikings. They have a range of 9 versus the 7 that the purifier has; just follow it for a few minutes and kill.


----------



## Tatakai All

I've been stuck playing that Viking arcade game in the cantina. Boy, do I need to get back to the missions.


----------



## NrGx

Okay guys, if you want, post your character name and code and I'll add you to the list.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I played the mission 5 times and I know the order by heart. What I do is take 3 SCVs and build 4 turrets around each departing ship. These turrets take care of the attacking carriers without losing any vikings. I save the colonies and then I build up my fleet of Vikings. I had over 20 and went to clean up the nexi. When I get there, you have some interesting looking things attacking you even when you are parked on the high ground. From over 20, I lose 3-4 at every nexus and then get PWNED in my base because the purifier is hard to kill. In addition, The Protoss troops destroy my bunkers very fast ....

If I don't find a way soon, I will do HAVEN in a different order. I need some better weapons.


Dont take so much time to build your defenses/force. You can practically kill the first nexus with the 3 vikings you start out with and thats it. The interesting things are sentries IIRC. They do basically no damage to your vikings and they're basically the only things that attack you while you're on high ground.

Also, send 2~3 scv to bunkers under attack. 2 filled bunkers and 2 siege tanks at each of the 2 chokes are all you need to defend your base. I didn't use any turrets the entire mission. The attacking fleets are only like 2 carriers and a few scouts or something, 4 vikings can handle them easily if you micro properly.


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I must suck badly at this game. What is the secret of fast development? I am at the purifier mission and I destroy the Nexi but the damn purifier is in my base cleaning up. By the time I return with the Vikings that thing has charged the weapon halfway. I've no cruiser, no siege tanks, no ships, only vikings which suck if I'm honest. The Protoss rock!!

I have the impression the Terran race in SC II is, once again like in SC I, a bit behind weapon wise







.


Terran are arguably the strongest, with zerg being the weakest. A marine, maruader, and medvac army can defeat a higher resource protoss army minus things like carriers and motherships. There are high lvl protoss players who go into a p vs t battle with the assumption that they will loss. There was a lot of that going around at the end of the beta.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mr.derp*


Terran are arguably the strongest, with zerg being the weakest. A marine, maruader, and medvac army can defeat a higher resource protoss army minus things like carriers and motherships. There are high lvl protoss players who go into a p vs t battle with the assumption that they will loss. There was a lot of that going around at the end of the beta.


storms and colosi... there is no reason why a protoss player should lose to a marine, maurauder, and medivac ball. I NEVER would pump out carriers/mother ships against an M&M ball. Charge zealots with temps, colosi, and a few sentries.

I agree with you on the zerg part, in that they suffer during the mid game. But once they tech up to brood lords, they'll put the hurt on you. Ultras also rofl stop most things now.


----------



## Coma

Terran gets Ghosts, EMPs *your* blob, uses Vikings to snipe Collossi out of your attack range.

Unless you want to sacrifice your Collossi in an all-in battle, they're going to be effectively disabled by those Vikings. A good Terran player will also split up his forces in such a way that Psi Storm and Collossi aren't as effective.

Take a moment to think about what you just said. If it were true, then SC2 would be completely imbalanced.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Terran gets Ghosts, EMPs *your* blob, uses Vikings to snipe Collossi out of your attack range.

Unless you want to sacrifice your Collossi in an all-in battle, they're going to be effectively disabled by those Vikings. A good Terran player will also split up his forces in such a way that Psi Storm and Collossi aren't as effective.

Take a moment to think about what you just said. If it were true, then SC2 would be completely imbalanced.

T got Ghosts, a sizeable MMM ball, and a sizeable viking count. That takes a whole lot of gas. What exactly was the P in this situation doing while the T got all this?

IMO, T is the strongest, but you can't say P has nothing to fight a T MMM ball. Colossi and storms with chargelots work wonders against the ball, and if they got all the stuff you've listed, you should have enough stuff to counter-act it fairly well. However, I do agree that EMP is ridiculously OP. It's an instant "your army is at half health with no energy lolz" button, however with that said, like you said, a good P player will split up his forces to neutralize EMP as much as possible.

Also, carriers and mothership against MMM? Carriers and mothership against anything? I would never build those unbelievably awful units in a serious game.


----------



## Icchy

just got sc2 today!!! sick gamee... the units are kinda too big tho


----------



## Twistacles

EMP Is only OP if you're a ****** that just highlights his whole army and right clicks the opponent.

SPLIT UP YOUR ARMY. Flank with chargelots.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
EMP Is only OP if you're a ****** that just highlights his whole army and right clicks the opponent.

SPLIT UP YOUR ARMY. Flank with chargelots.

No EMP is OP even if you do that. Let's compare EMP and storm (arguably the most powerful spell in the game, besides EMP).

EMP: 100 shields drained
Storm: 80 damage

EMP: Damage done instantaneously
Storm: Damage done over four seconds, giving room to dodge

EMP: Range 10, eliminating the possibility of feedbacking (range 9) the ghost
Storm: Range 9

EMP: Drains all energy from spellcasters
Storm: No damage done to energy

Even if you split your army like a champ, if the enemy has 2+ ghosts, they can easily get off 3 EMPs to your army, effectively making your split null and void. While I agree that splitting your army and flanking are the best course of action, it would be bad to ignore some of the glaring balance problems EMP brings.

Of course, we have only had the full game for a few days now, so who knows where the balance of the game will take us, but as it stands right now, I'd say EMP is slightly OP, of course that could just be my Protoss bias.

If you're looking for a way to fix EMP, I'd say make it drain energy and shields over time, much like storm, to at least give a chance to dodge.

EDIT: No need to use ****** as an insult. It makes you look juvenile and makes people disregard whatever valid points you might raise.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
T got Ghosts, a sizeable MMM ball, and a sizeable viking count. That takes a whole lot of gas. What exactly was the P in this situation doing while the T got all this?

Getting Colossi and Templars? They also cost a lot of gas, and are pretty insignificant if you only have a couple.


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
storms and colosi... there is no reason why a protoss player should lose to a marine, maurauder, and medivac ball. I NEVER would pump out carriers/mother ships against an M&M ball. Charge zealots with temps, colosi, and a few sentries.

I agree with you on the zerg part, in that they suffer during the mid game. But once they tech up to brood lords, they'll put the hurt on you. Ultras also rofl stop most things now.

Although technically they would be counters, you still don't even see that combo win more than 50% if you watch gamecasts and replays. Bio is so much cheaper to build. Colossi positioned well with extended thermal lancers can defend a postion but it's hard to get an advantage when attacking a position with stimed marauders to deal with. Terran win so often it's ridiculous. Another thing is a couple tanks go a long way

Ultras aren't bad but they still need worked on. Brood lords are just tricky to deal with and most people just blow themselves apart with their own siege tanks.


----------



## HopeUTKN

I could play on max settings in beta on 1680x1050 with my 9800GT. I could get 40-50 FPS avg. No joke.


----------



## Chunkylad

Insane AI cheat. They double your units....


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Getting Colossi and Templars? They also cost a lot of gas, and are pretty insignificant if you only have a couple.

Eh, I wouldn't call huge area of effect attack insignificant. Just a single templar with a well place storm or a couple colossus firing in the back can amount to huge amounts of damage. Vikings are a heavy investment that are good against air, but not much else, so if they overshoot on viking production even a little, your ground army should be much bigger.

PvT when T goes MMM is all about positioning (hell, any vT is all about positioning). Keeping your colossus in back over stalkers to take out vikings that stray too far and chargelots in front to halt the MMM ball is an easy way to win. The key is to focus fire vikings with your stalkers, as just a-moving the stalkers will auto-attack medivacs. Keeping templars in back with colossus usually keeps them from being EMPed, because the ghosts will be too far away to hit the templars, but the templars can still storm the MMM ball.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I have no problem dealing with T MMM balls (~400 diamond league, currently, to give a point of reference, would be higher just been playing campaign recently). Now T tank play is a different matter. Siege tanks give me nightmares, no lie.


----------



## NrGx

Just played a game where we had 100 units on screen with a mothership and cloak and my rig was dying. Went down to 9fps.


----------



## Realcacheese

Well since this is a Discussion and *Screenshot* Thread and there are very few screenshots I guess I'll add some.









**SPOILER* *LAST MISSION IN CAMPAIGN**


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!












99.7%
















99.8%









This mission took me like a ton of tries because I spent all my credits on fun stuff like thors/ghosts/bcs and I didn't have stuff like viking aoe and bunker/turret upgrades. I chose to eliminate nydus worms in the mission before this. Yeah, it's on brutal.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Okay guys, if you want, post your character name and code and I'll add you to the list.

What code?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcacheese* 
Well since this is a Discussion and *Screenshot* Thread and there are very few screenshots I guess I'll add some.









**SPOILER* *LAST MISSION IN CAMPAIGN**


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!












99.7%
















99.8%









This mission took me like a ton of tries because I spent all my credits on fun stuff like thors/ghosts/bcs and I didn't have stuff like viking aoe and bunker/turret upgrades. I chose to eliminate nydus worms in the mission before this. Yeah, it's on brutal.







Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



I've heard the air attack on the last mission is insane. I just finished the ground campaign and it's really easy. Just wall with CCs and plant Tanks behind them and go Nydus hunting with a pack of banshees. EZPZ. Good luck on it, though, if you haven't already beaten it.


----------



## DuckYy

nrgx - were you playing evolves? j/k. dam that must have been some game. mothership is a pretty badass unit imo. couple with a good army, its a very good support unit. i sometimes build one if i have an insane surplus for the fun of it.

like ajax, i dont find the mmm build all that hard to beat. templars/colossi arent insignificant like coma says. the fact is they are your support units. you dont just mass them so only a couple is great. if you get emp, just walk your army back, dont engage. shields recharge fast. flanking is good but splitting your amry is always risky.

i prefer the templars over the colossi vs terran in general. colossi get snipe too fast when you first get them but back up with a huge army, they are devasting in the later game. templars on the other hand arent that easy to snipe and they form archon which i found pretty handy. the fact they arent light/armored and dont take addition damage plus 300 shields make them great meat shields for the army.

@ajax, have you found a good build against mech? i been doing a split between 4gate or immortal pushes.


----------



## mth91

anybody got any idea how to make this thing run at 1366x768 on my laptop? it only gives me the selections for 1024x768 and 1280x720


----------



## Jyr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mth91* 
anybody got any idea how to make this thing run at 1366x768 on my laptop? it only gives me the selections for 1024x768 and 1280x720

Go to My Documents, find StarCraft II, open the Variables.txt file. There's entries for "height" and "width" you can change. Should work.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
@ajax, have you found a good build against mech? i been doing a split between 4gate or immortal pushes.

I either go for a quick Void Ray to force vikings or marines on a T that I think is meching and then transition to chargelots and immortals off two base or I do a straight 2 immortal push into expand.

Both builds stand to do a lot of damage early if your timing is right and both can set up a heavy immortal/chargelot mid-game, which I think is the key to PvT mech.


----------



## mth91

ach. when i do that it doesn't change the res and gives me scaling issues.


----------



## mth91

what worked for me is changing the res in the variables file, then in the game switching to windowed mode.


----------



## doc2142

How well will this run on a 8800GT, Phenom x3 720 and 2GB of ram?


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doc2142* 
How well will this run on a 8800GT, Phenom x3 720 and 2GB of ram?

Assuming you're playing at 1920x1080, I'd say all high should be fine. Might have to have some medium.


----------



## ModderMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doc2142* 
How well will this run on a 8800GT, Phenom x3 720 and 2GB of ram?

Fine. Starcraft scans your system, then adjusts the game settings so that it runs as smooth as possible. I have a PC thats under the min requirements and it runs smoothly (lowest quality though) .


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
I either go for a quick Void Ray to force vikings or marines on a T that I think is meching and then transition to chargelots and immortals off two base or I do a straight 2 immortal push into expand.

Both builds stand to do a lot of damage early if your timing is right and both can set up a heavy immortal/chargelot mid-game, which I think is the key to PvT mech.

i havent been able to use void rays all too well. they are easily taken care of by marines. and if they get vikings, you arent really forcing them into a wall since they are going to build them anyways to give sight to tanks.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mr.derp* 
Although technically they would be counters, you still don't even see that combo win more than 50% if you watch gamecasts and replays. Bio is so much cheaper to build. Colossi positioned well with extended thermal lancers can defend a postion but it's hard to get an advantage when attacking a position with stimed marauders to deal with. Terran win so often it's ridiculous. Another thing is a couple tanks go a long way

Ultras aren't bad but they still need worked on. Brood lords are just tricky to deal with and most people just blow themselves apart with their own siege tanks.

I've seen many game casts, and I think that protoss can handle themselves well against terran. Protoss have the ability to warp in units, and re-enforcing an army is very easy. A 4 gate push with sentries is very effective against terran who's going bio. Zealots with legs will just destroy marines, and dodging storms is easier said then done when you have 10 temps chilling in the back ready to storm the hell out of any army. And if they get emp'd, warp in more. As a toss going up against terran, you should get your gas early anyways, so you'll have it stock piled up for temps. Also, you usually either get temps or colosi, not both. I usually get temps and chargelots. The temps for storms, and since you have a ton of minerals left over, zealots. It works wonders for me, and even with good micro, its hard to avoid all of the storms from the temps. True ghost emp does blow, but if you have good placement if your temps, you shouldn't have all your temps EMP'd at once. Also, you should always get the kidarian [i don't know how to spell, excuse me] amulet; instant storms when you warp in temps.

I mean it is trouble some to go against a slowly turtling terran who pushes out with tanks and that huge ball. But you just have to go and expand like crazy while he's turtling.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
i havent been able to use void rays all too well. they are easily taken care of by marines. and if they get vikings, you arent really forcing them into a wall since they are going to build them anyways to give sight to tanks.

With Voidrays you have to get them in early and abuse high ground. Also, hope they don't scout you. Because generally no terran is going to have alot of marines; most usually switch into mauraders fairly quickly


----------



## dafour

Playing against an easy ai = win
Playing against an medium = fail after 15 min

I feel a big jump from easy to med,setting the handicap doesnt help.
Guess i'm still a sucker at rts


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
i havent been able to use void rays all too well. they are easily taken care of by marines. and if they get vikings, you arent really forcing them into a wall since they are going to build them anyways to give sight to tanks.

I've rarely seen T go Vikings without Void Rays from me. Most of the time they just spot with their small MM ball or an SCV. Viking spotting battles are usually reserved for TvT from I've seen.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dafour* 
Playing against an easy ai = win
Playing against an medium = fail after 15 min

I feel a big jump from easy to med,setting the handicap doesnt help.
Guess i'm still a sucker at rts









It just takes some time to adjust to the different speed of the game. The jump from Medium to Hard is really big for me at the moment as well. I only found a well executed Zerg rush to work.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
I've rarely seen T go Vikings without Void Rays from me. Most of the time they just spot with their small MM ball or an SCV. Viking spotting battles are usually reserved for TvT from I've seen.

Yah I usually see terran spot with the medivacs in TvP or TvZ. That or they just use scans.

EDIT: Dafour, are you playing right now? i'll do some 2v2 against the med ai for the achievements with you if you want


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
With Voidrays you have to get them in early and abuse high ground. Also, hope they don't scout you. Because generally no terran is going to have alot of marines; most usually switch into mauraders fairly quickly

even a small amount of marines like 6 will push back a void ray. not necessary killing it but making the void ray worthless as harrassing and forcing. plus, i usually find the stargate useless until the later part of the game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
I've rarely seen T go Vikings without Void Rays from me. Most of the time they just spot with their small MM ball or an SCV. Viking spotting battles are usually reserved for TvT from I've seen.

im just saying, if you wanted to force him to get viking like you said, its not necessary a bad option for him to go since hes gets that sight. plus, the viking is good for scouting. unlike the void ray, its not a good support unit for your army.

the timing for the void ray is very small and isnt as flexible if you mess up or get scouted as the other builds.


----------



## ducktape

I thought the ending was so cliche. After doing the zeratul missions I could smell the cheese coming. So much cheese in fact I'm not going to buy the expansions but i'll still play it.


----------



## ReaperMan

I liked the ending.


----------



## xHassassin

OH WHAT THE BALLS. LAST MISSION IS STUPIDDDDD



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



So like if you're heading an *assault* on Char, shouldn't you be *assaulting* it?

Nooo, all 3 char missions are some sort of defense mission, except for perhaps the 2nd one where you knock out nydus worms / air. The protoss relic thing felt like a cheap gimmick Blizzard used to tie up plot holes since they wanted to end the game early or something, or ran out of ideas on how the puny terrans would kill the queen of blades.

I expected something along the lines or an epic invasion into Zerg territory, and you'd deliver the relic to a defeated Kerrigan to complete the mission. Instead, the relic is this hugely overpowered weapon.










Ah well, it was kind of fun, although boring. All I did was mass siege tanks and missile turrets for the last mission and won easily. Mission finished in less than 30 minutes, shorter than all of the last 10 missions I had played. ANTICLIMATIC.












Char invasion should've been longer IMO, but the rest of the campaign was really satisfying. Gonna go replay the thing on brutal.










Oh and lol at the credits. The part with the special thanks was literally a wall of text, names separated by no more than a comma and a space.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
OH WHAT THE BALLS. LAST MISSION IS STUPIDDDDD



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



So like if you're heading an *assault* on Char, shouldn't you be *assaulting* it?

Nooo, all 3 char missions are some sort of defense mission, except for perhaps the 2nd one where you knock out nydus worms / air. The protoss relic thing felt like a cheap gimmick Blizzard used to tie up plot holes since they wanted to end the game early or something, or ran out of ideas on how the puny terrans would kill the queen of blades.

I expected something along the lines or an epic invasion into Zerg territory, and you'd deliver the relic to a defeated Kerrigan to complete the mission. Instead, the relic is this hugely overpowered weapon.










Ah well, it was kind of fun, although boring. All I did was mass siege tanks and missile turrets for the last mission and won easily. Mission finished in less than 30 minutes, shorter than all of the last 10 missions I had played. ANTICLIMATIC.












Char invasion should've been longer IMO, but the rest of the campaign was really satisfying. Gonna go replay the thing on brutal.










Oh and lol at the credits. The part with the special thanks was literally a wall of text, names separated by no more than a comma and a space.











My god, I hated the last mission. I barely finished. I was like spaming the artifact special attack... BARELY made it... I had a wall of damn tanks and turrets... they just kept getting owned


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
My god, I hated the last mission. I barely finished. I was like spaming the artifact special attack... BARELY made it... I had a wall of damn tanks and turrets... they just kept getting owned

What difficulty did you play it on? Also, did you kill the worms or the air? I chose air and didn't have much trouble. Turrets were only there to stop the overlords but once I realized that they never dropped anything I stopped making them. Plus I kept like 10 scvs in my tank lines to autorepair, and I bought the auto healing upgrades for both vehicles and buildings.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
What difficulty did you play it on? Also, did you kill the worms or the air? I chose air and didn't have much trouble. Turrets were only there to stop the overlords but once I realized that they never dropped anything I stopped making them. Plus I kept like 10 scvs in my tank lines to autorepair, and I bought the auto healing upgrades for both vehicles and buildings.

I stopped the nydus worms... maybe thats what went wrong. The broodlords just destroyed the turrets... was playing on hard.


----------



## decyx

Just installed the Catalyst 10.7a hotfix drivers for AA and took some screenshots. Graphic settings are maxed out with 24X Edge-Detect AA. In-game screen resolution was 2560x1440 downsampled to 1920x1080 in real-time (tutorial for those interested courtesy of 3DCenter).

The only downside to the AA hotfix is that using Edge-Detect AA causes some black spots to pop up during cutscenes. Hopefully, ATI fixes this, but it's probably not going to happen. IQ is amazing otherwise though. Jaggies have almost been completely eliminated.

















*More screenshots below.*


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!


----------



## Reactions

Anyone here with a 5970 who have low FPS?


----------



## Wishmaker

In the Zeratul-Kerrigan cutscene I was hitting 1100 FPS!!!!!! HOLLY MOLLY!!!!!


----------



## Xealot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *decyx*


Just installed the Catalyst 10.7a hotfix drivers for AA and took some screenshots. Graphic settings are maxed out with 24X Edge-Detect AA. In-game screen resolution was 2560x1440 downsampled to 1920x1080 in real-time (tutorial for those interested courtesy of 3DCenter).

The only downside to the AA hotfix is that using Edge-Detect AA causes some black spots to pop up during cutscenes. Hopefully, ATI fixes this, but it's probably not going to happen. IQ is amazing otherwise though. Jaggies have almost been completely eliminated.
...


Is the game playable at those settings on a 4890?

I started out with max in game settings but as the missions got larger I had to turn everything down a notch because the game would dip below 30 fps.


----------



## wrekt

I _think_ this is the right spot to ask a MP question...but I went through all but 10 of my non-league practice matches this weekend and now have a few questions. I'm feeling pretty good about my resource gathering, and my roommate just hooked me up with the tips on assigning buildings to keys like 5-9 and my units to like 1-4. My question comes primarily with 2v2's...usually when we start one of us goes ground, the other goes air. I don't see much of a point for say reaper rushes, because most people set up a quick defense to it. I usually get to my thor's pretty quick, but by the time the opponents get to me, they shred through my thor's with an air and a bunch of smaller units...should I be focusing on adding different melees with the thor's? Such as mauraders? If you guys focus on melee (assuming this is even a smart idea for 2v2's) - what units do you prioritize and go for?


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


I _think_ this is the right spot to ask a MP question...but I went through all but 10 of my non-league practice matches this weekend and now have a few questions. I'm feeling pretty good about my resource gathering, and my roommate just hooked me up with the tips on assigning buildings to keys like 5-9 and my units to like 1-4. My question comes primarily with 2v2's...usually when we start one of us goes ground, the other goes air. I don't see much of a point for say reaper rushes, because most people set up a quick defense to it. I usually get to my thor's pretty quick, but by the time the opponents get to me, they shred through my thor's with an air and a bunch of smaller units...should I be focusing on adding different melees with the thor's? Such as mauraders? If you guys focus on melee (assuming this is even a smart idea for 2v2's) - what units do you prioritize and go for?


Sounds like you go for pure Thors. They're more of a supportive unit like siege tanks. They need to be complimented by tanks and marines or marauders. Thors are only good against light air units, armored air units will shrug off Thor's air attack like nothing. Thor's are expensive, but they can't really dominate the ground like a BC would due to it's 1 armor vs 3 armor for BC.

Add vikings into the mix or go with said tanks/rines/marauders combo.


----------



## wrekt

BC? Sorry - must be slow this morning...not clicking on what that is









edit:
Well, with medivacs - they can only heal marines/mauraders and not thors/siege tanks right? If i'm ground - should I be building those for my units as well? At what point do you all start upgrading armor/weapons? Would you upgrade armor/weapons for the infantry, or the factory units first?


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


BC? Sorry - must be slow this morning...not clicking on what that is









edit:
Well, with medivacs - they can only heal marines/mauraders and not thors/siege tanks right? If i'm ground - should I be building those for my units as well? At what point do you all start upgrading armor/weapons? Would you upgrade armor/weapons for the infantry, or the factory units first?


Battlecruisers = BC

You can build them if you have enough resources to spare and a big enough army to deem 3-5 medivacs useful. Heal only works on infantry. You upgrade armor about mid-game, I think. You can do it early if you have excess gas banking up and can't spend it all on units. Upgrade whichever you'll be amassing. If you have mostly infantry, upgrade infantry weapons and armors. If you have more tanks/thors/hellions, then upgrade mech weapons/armor.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


BC? Sorry - must be slow this morning...not clicking on what that is









edit:
Well, with medivacs - they can only heal marines/mauraders and not thors/siege tanks right? If i'm ground - should I be building those for my units as well? At what point do you all start upgrading armor/weapons? Would you upgrade armor/weapons for the infantry, or the factory units first?


Thors are goodfor ground and taking care of mutakisks. But As was said, they're suppor units. A good ideal mix for a Terran ground army is 2 - 4 thors, 3 - 5 tanks, 2 medvacs, and rest marines and maurauders. These numbers can obviously vary depending on your army size. And make sure you research stim, shields for rines, and slow concussive shells for marauders. Siege mode for tanks is also a must.

The way you should advance is siege up all your tanks then move up wih your thors and m&m ball. Leave a few rines with tanks to make sire you don't get flanked. Then move up 1 or 2 tanks up at a time while the other tanks in the back provide cover. This is a slow and deadly push that, if done right, is down rigt scary because it's hard to stop.


----------



## wrekt

Perfect...thanks!

So how do you guys recommend avoiding nuc attacks? bastards always scout my base out, then nuke my workers!


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


Perfect...thanks!

So how do you guys recommend avoiding nuc attacks? bastards always scout my base out, then nuke my workers!


Keep detectors around. If you here the nuke incoming warning, by god get your workers out of there. A single nuke won't kill the town hall but if they hit your workers...









A tip: When you here the nuke incoming warning, you can press space and the screen will center on wherever the nuke is being dropped.


----------



## ReaperMan

Well if you're Terran u should have a wall off. Just build a turret at the wall off and have a few rines to hold the wall


----------



## wrekt

Gotcha...thanks again.

Soon as i tear out of work today I think i'll try the MMM strat...see how that works for me.

Besides from trying new strats...like the MMM balls and tank pushes...any other strats I should focus on? Even websites that provide good tutorials for new players?


----------



## sorrowfool

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


What difficulty did you play it on? Also, did you kill the worms or the air? I chose air and didn't have much trouble. Turrets were only there to stop the overlords but once I realized that they never dropped anything I stopped making them. Plus I kept like 10 scvs in my tank lines to autorepair, and I bought the auto healing upgrades for both vehicles and buildings.


Took me 3 tries to beat the last mission. Barely made it the last try. I did the mission to take out air and was playing on Normal.

What I did was:

1. 2 bunkers at each entrance filled with 6 Marines and the auto-turret upgrade
2. 2 Psi-Disruptors; 1 at at each entrance... this made a big difference
3. 2 Auto-Turrets, the flame thrower ones. These helped a lot as well
4. 4 Siege Tanks
5. 5 SCVs for auto-repairs, backed by 5 Medics
6. 2 Battlecruisers at each entrance
7. 6-8 Banshees at each Entrance
8. 6 Science Vessels to repair Banshees, BCs and Siege Tanks

I had to retreat up the hill pretty quickly. That ended making me have trouble defending my base. I never took out the Nydus Worms, which may have helped. Kerrigan was my biggest problem. She would take out a BC or ST and usually a bunker before I could drop her. I tried to time the Artifact nova attack to when she came out, but it was not really possible.

First attempt wasn't even close... like 70-80%. The second attempt I got to 97% then lost. The third attempt the Artifact was at 2/3 health when it activated. 20 more seconds and I would have lost.

Thinking back I can think of a few things I could have done different, like Marauders in the Bunkers instead of Marines, since there was no air. More Siege Tanks. Building another Starport for faster replacement of lost units. I don't think I upgraded at all, either.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


Gotcha...thanks again.

Soon as i tear out of work today I think i'll try the MMM strat...see how that works for me.

Besides from trying new strats...like the MMM balls and tank pushes...any other strats I should focus on? Even websites that provide good tutorials for new players?



Learn how to hellion harass in the Early to mid game. It's good for killing workers and especially good against Zerg, sinse hellions destroy lings.


----------



## wrekt

which unit is a hellion? pardon the ignorance...I blame it on Monday.


----------



## AblueXKRS

The little buggy with a flamethrower. Factory.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


which unit is a hellion? pardon the ignorance...I blame it on Monday.


The really quick, car-like one that shoots a stream of flames.


----------



## wrekt

doh...knew i'd regret asking that...you upgrade their flame before sending?


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Learn how to hellion harass in the Early to mid game. It's good for killing workers and especially good against Zerg, sinse hellions destroy lings.


not exactly true. It depends on how many hellions you have, and if there is even a single sunken near the mineral line, they will fall so quickly.

Keep in mind that lings will rip through hellions if they are allowed to surround. And with faster movement on creep, it makes them a rather tough sell at 100 each unless the opponent is rather beginner.


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


doh...knew i'd regret asking that...you upgrade their flame before sending?


If you plan on harassing early, when the opponent is still on lings or zealots, then no. Waiting for the upgrade and getting the tech lab shaves precious seconds off your tech advantage, and if t he opponent does not have stalkers/marauder/roaches/hydras, they will be a waste of money.


----------



## wrekt

Pretty much all day yesterday harassing seemed to be pointless and a complete waste...units were dead before even getting to the workers with even a basic defense against reapers. Must be doing it wrong i'm sure.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


Pretty much all day yesterday harassing seemed to be pointless and a complete waste...units were dead before even getting to the workers with even a basic defense against reapers. Must be doing it wrong i'm sure.


With a reaper harass, that's how it goes. You have to get them there before the first stalker/queen pops or else your reapers will pretty much be useless.


----------



## wrekt

So how do most people harass as they progress in the game? Do most people harass or is it generally a waste? After a few minutes it would seem pointless to harass, so how do people go about the mid-game harassing?


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


So how do most people harass as they progress in the game? Do most people harass or is it generally a waste? After a few minutes it would seem pointless to harass, so how do people go about the mid-game harassing?


As protoss voidrays, pheonix, dark templars, proxy pylons and running in 2-4 warped zealots in his mineral line. Immortal drops or storm drops. All this is done after 5min mark


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


So how do most people harass as they progress in the game? Do most people harass or is it generally a waste? After a few minutes it would seem pointless to harass, so how do people go about the mid-game harassing?


There's any number of things you can do to harass, most targeting probes, a few supply and a few key tech structures. I'll just list a few off the top of my head.

Storm drops
DT drops
Zealot/Temp drops
Phoenix harass
Muta harass
Thor drops
Hellion drops
Banshee harass
Viking harass

You pretty much have to go in through the backdoor route because of the standing army at the front usually, which is why drops and fliers are popular for harassing.


----------



## c64dreamer

Ok, this is not in any way a flame. I just bought Starcraft II and love the single-player missions, story, just about everything.

The question has to do with any great RTS. Is there any real strategy involved? It seems that units don't even matter that much. You just build 2x or 3x more units than your competition and send the blob over to the other side of the screen. Game over.

Now this is only my observation. There simply doesn't seem to be any real strategy in SC2 multi-player. If I am wrong, could you explain why?

I developed these observations when I use to play Age of Empires 1 & 2.

Thanks,


----------



## wrekt

hah, awesome =0 guess i'll try a few drops. Can't imagine they're terrible effective though? I usually throw up a tower or two around the minerals...lost a game from one ghost lol.


----------



## Fantasysage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *c64dreamer*


Ok, this is not in any way a flame. I just bought Starcraft II and love the single-player missions, story, just about everything.

The question has to do with any great RTS. Is there any real strategy involved? It seems that units don't even matter that much. You just build 2x or 3x more units than your competition and send the blob over to the other side of the screen. Game over.

Now this is only my observation. There simply doesn't seem to be any real strategy in SC2 multi-player. If I am wrong, could you explain why?

I developed these observations when I use to play Age of Empires 1 & 2.

Thanks,


Startcraft is more about the strategy of build orders and stuff like that. I honestly find it boring compared to other RTS's.


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


even a small amount of marines like 6 will push back a void ray. not necessary killing it but making the void ray worthless as harrassing and forcing. plus, i usually find the stargate useless until the later part of the game.

im just saying, if you wanted to force him to get viking like you said, its not necessary a bad option for him to go since hes gets that sight. plus, the viking is good for scouting. unlike the void ray, its not a good support unit for your army.

the timing for the void ray is very small and isnt as flexible if you mess up or get scouted as the other builds.


Voidrays in PvT are insanely good you probably just don't know how to use em. Have them come with your stalkers for harras on his ramp melt his depots kill some rines, 1 void can melt 5 marines with out talking health damage if it's fully charged.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *c64dreamer*


Ok, this is not in any way a flame. I just bought Starcraft II and love the single-player missions, story, just about everything.

The question has to do with any great RTS. Is there any real strategy involved? It seems that units don't even matter that much. *You just build 2x or 3x more units than your competition and send the blob over to the other side of the screen.* Game over.

Now this is only my observation. There simply doesn't seem to be any real strategy in SC2 multi-player. If I am wrong, could you explain why?

I developed these observations when I use to play Age of Empires 1 & 2.

Thanks,


That's your problem. If you're building 2x or 3x more units than your competition, you're not playing good enough people. Once you start playing people of your skill level, the strategy becomes more emphasized.


----------



## Wishmaker

I just did the Zeratul missions and I am kind of sad. The mighty Protoss .... but hey, I am like Bruce Willis when it comes to games. I save everything and everyone. Come here you hybrids, I will tear you a new one







.


----------



## c64dreamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *decyx*


Just installed the Catalyst 10.7a hotfix drivers for AA and took some screenshots. Graphic settings are maxed out with 24X Edge-Detect AA. In-game screen resolution was 2560x1440 downsampled to 1920x1080 in real-time (tutorial for those interested courtesy of 3DCenter).

The only downside to the AA hotfix is that using Edge-Detect AA causes some black spots to pop up during cutscenes. Hopefully, ATI fixes this, but it's probably not going to happen. IQ is amazing otherwise though. Jaggies have almost been completely eliminated.

















*More screenshots below.*


























I have never seen graphics like that.... breathtaking.

I must be playing at 320x200 -10 antialiasing. LOL!


----------



## c64dreamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


That's your problem. If you're building 2x or 3x more units than your competition, you're not playing good enough people. Once you start playing people of your skill level, the strategy becomes more emphasized.


Yes, I suck. But I have seen competitive play on G4 and they still do the same thing? Maybe I need to watch more games.


----------



## sorrowfool

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I just did the Zeratul missions and I am kind of sad. The mighty Protoss .... but hey, I am like Bruce Willis when it comes to games. I save everything and everyone. Come here you hybrids, I will tear you a new one







.


Well, that hasn't happened yet, and now maybe it won't. But it was pretty sad.

Also, I'm curious, how many kills were people able to get up to in that one?

Hybrid Protoss/Zerg are pretty awesome. I'm assuming that Kerrigan is still gonna have some control over the Zerg, or I don't see how saving her would help beat the Hybrids. Though, she is the only Zerg/Terran Hybrid that we've seen (except maybe Duran?) so there is no telling what powers she would/will develop. Anyways, I hope Kerrigan is the main focus of the next expansion, that's the one I've been waiting for.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sorrowfool*


Well, that hasn't happened yet, and now maybe it won't. But it was pretty sad.

Also, I'm curious, how many kills were people able to get up to in that one?

Hybrid Protoss/Zerg are pretty awesome. I'm assuming that Kerrigan is still gonna have some control over the Zerg, or I don't see how saving her would help beat the Hybrids. Though, she is the only Zerg/Terran Hybrid that we've seen (except maybe Duran?) so there is no telling what powers she would/will develop. Anyways, I hope Kerrigan is the main focus of the next expansion, that's the one I've been waiting for.


I got up to around 3000 on Normal, ~2500 on hard.


----------



## sorrowfool

Quote:



Originally Posted by *c64dreamer*


Yes, I suck. But I have seen competitive play on G4 and they still do the same thing? Maybe I need to watch more games.


Yeah, I've watched/played a number of games and I've seen smaller armies beat larger ones. That happened with my last game. There are hard counters in the game that can relatively negate numbers, but also having good control of your units, and positioning, and using abilities properly makes all the difference. 50 Zerglings can be taken out by 3 Siege Tanks with proper positioning.

I saw a match where the guy was able to wipe out nearly 20 Zealots with a handful of Stalkers using Blink and high ground. I had a match where is wiped out a bunch of Marines and Marauders with like 6 Infestors.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *c64dreamer*


Yes, I suck. But I have seen competitive play on G4 and they still do the same thing? Maybe I need to watch more games.


No, no, not saying you suck, just that if you're watching a game where army values are 2 or 3 times the other one, you're watching a game where people aren't on the same level (or a game where there is an intense timing window as one player macros and one gathers an army).

Strategy becomes bigger and bigger a part of the game as two opponents approach the same skill level. Positioning, unit composition, when to expand, when to retreat, what abilities you use, etc. are just the tip of the iceberg. As you get more and more into the game, you'll notice small things that change the game in a big way. That's part of what I love of Starcraft, these little nuances that can completely change the game. Hope that helps a little.


----------



## c64dreamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


No, no, not saying you suck, just that if you're watching a game where army values are 2 or 3 times the other one, you're watching a game where people aren't on the same level (or a game where there is an intense timing window as one player macros and one gathers an army).

Strategy becomes bigger and bigger a part of the game as two opponents approach the same skill level. Positioning, unit composition, when to expand, when to retreat, what abilities you use, etc. are just the tip of the iceberg. As you get more and more into the game, you'll notice small things that change the game in a big way. That's part of what I love of Starcraft, these little nuances that can completely change the game. Hope that helps a little.


Thanks, it does.


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Uantyv*


Voidrays in PvT are insanely good you probably just don't know how to use em. Have them come with your stalkers for harras on his ramp melt his depots kill some rines, 1 void can melt 5 marines with out talking health damage if it's fully charged.


if its fully charge. do you know how long it takes for a void ray to charge up fully? by the time its charge, shields would be gone and you'll be taking hp damage. and why would you go to his front with a void ray?

for those who been misreading my post, im not saying void rays arent good against terran. im saying they are hard to use against terran mech, specially the 1/1/1 build.


----------



## decyx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xealot*


Is the game playable at those settings on a 4890?

I started out with max in game settings but as the missions got larger I had to turn everything down a notch because the game would dip below 30 fps.


It is definitely not playable with any sort of Edge-Detect AA (4X-8X Box AA is fine though).


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sorrowfool*


Took me 3 tries to beat the last mission. Barely made it the last try. I did the mission to take out air and was playing on Normal.

What I did was:

1. 2 bunkers at each entrance filled with 6 Marines and the auto-turret upgrade
2. 2 Psi-Disruptors; 1 at at each entrance... this made a big difference
3. 2 Auto-Turrets, the flame thrower ones. These helped a lot as well
4. 4 Siege Tanks
5. 5 SCVs for auto-repairs, backed by 5 Medics
6. 2 Battlecruisers at each entrance
7. 6-8 Banshees at each Entrance
8. 6 Science Vessels to repair Banshees, BCs and Siege Tanks

I had to retreat up the hill pretty quickly. That ended making me have trouble defending my base. I never took out the Nydus Worms, which may have helped. Kerrigan was my biggest problem. She would take out a BC or ST and usually a bunker before I could drop her. I tried to time the Artifact nova attack to when she came out, but it was not really possible.

First attempt wasn't even close... like 70-80%. The second attempt I got to 97% then lost. The third attempt the Artifact was at 2/3 health when it activated. 20 more seconds and I would have lost.

Thinking back I can think of a few things I could have done different, like Marauders in the Bunkers instead of Marines, since there was no air. More Siege Tanks. Building another Starport for faster replacement of lost units. I don't think I upgraded at all, either.


Yeah, I played it on normal. I had 3 bunkers at each entrance with 6 rines and auto turret. I didn't get the flame turrets though, I got the other thing. I went max supply with like 36 marines, ~40 scvs, 3 banshees, and the rest tanks. Got ~8 tanks on each side at the low ground with the bunkers and the rest I put on high ground near the artifact. I think I lost a total of like 20 units, most of which were when kerrigan did her op instakill splash thing on my grouped up tanks. I had 2 factories, 1 starport and 1 barracks all with the tech reactor upgrade. And yeah, upgrades are key. Gotta max them out. Used the 3 cloaked banshees to pick off nydus worms outside of the artifact pulse range.










Love the autorepair feature, everything is so much easier.










Although now that I think about it, it probably would've been really epic if I had 2 planetary fortress at each entrance to wall.


----------



## ThumperSD

If you opted to kill the nydus worms in the previous mission, Thors really own in the last mission


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


if its fully charge. do you know how long it takes for a void ray to charge up fully? by the time its charge, shields would be gone and you'll be taking hp damage. and why would you go to his front with a void ray?

for those who been misreading my post, im not saying void rays arent good against terran. im saying they are hard to use against terran mech, specially the 1/1/1 build.


Haven't had a single teran go mech since sc2 release all of them marauder like mad.


----------



## Reactions

How high FPS do you get with everything at full? I get way too low fps for my 5970 so I want to know if it's a driver/sc2 issue or if I need to RMA my card..
My cpu is at stock now but dunno if it matters that much.


----------



## ThumperSD

Woot finally made it back to platinum rank 6... I played someone by the name of "HaSu" but im not sure if it was the real one. He was pretty good. I forgot to check his profile at the score screen to see if he was really a diamond player.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Reactions* 
How high FPS do you get with everything at full? I get way too low fps for my 5970 so I want to know if it's a driver/sc2 issue or if I need to RMA my card..
My cpu is at stock now but dunno if it matters that much.

I'm getting 40-115 fps @ 1920x1200 with everything on ultra. I average 60-70 fps in mid game.

Your 5970 should have absolutely no issue with any resolution on SC2. You should easily average at least 100 fps i think


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Woot finally made it back to platinum rank 6... I played someone by the name of "HaSu" but im not sure if it was the real one. He was pretty good. I forgot to check his profile at the score screen to see if he was really a diamond player.

Unlike the beta, you can check from your match history now.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Woot finally made it back to platinum rank 6... I played someone by the name of "HaSu" but im not sure if it was the real one. He was pretty good. I forgot to check his profile at the score screen to see if he was really a diamond player.

I'm getting 40-115 fps @ 1920x1200 with everything on ultra. I average 60-70 fps in mid game.

Your 5970 should have absolutely no issue with any resolution on SC2. You should easily average at least 100 fps i think









YouTube- TheLittleOne vs Hasu - TvP - Part 1 of 3 - StarCraft 2


----------



## ThumperSD

^ yea turns out it wasnt him.. the real hasu's name is apparently different


----------



## sorrowfool

Anyone heard of this problem?

On my character profile, in the snapshot area it only shows my 1v1 and 2v2 games. When I am on the Multiplayer screen, it only allows me to pick 1v1 or 2v2 games. When I am in my 3v3 with my friends it doesn't allow me to find a match, I have to transfer party leader to someone else. It still shows that I have played X amount of games, but nothing that specifically refers to anything above 2v2.

Any reason for this?


----------



## gerrardo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Reactions* 
How high FPS do you get with everything at full? I get way too low fps for my 5970 so I want to know if it's a driver/sc2 issue or if I need to RMA my card..
My cpu is at stock now but dunno if it matters that much.

cpu at stock will bottleneck the piss outta that 5970.

as far as framerates go, my 480 sli setup averages about 160-190 fps in game (max settings). dips to about 120-140 if there is a massive battle on screen.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Reactions* 
How high FPS do you get with everything at full? I get way too low fps for my 5970 so I want to know if it's a driver/sc2 issue or if I need to RMA my card..
My cpu is at stock now but dunno if it matters that much.

I get around 30-40fps at Ultra and 1920x1200. My CPU is at stock as well.


----------



## Skizzorz13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


I get around 30-40fps at Ultra and 1920x1200. My CPU is at stock as well.


Yeah the game seems really cpu limited, you should get high frames with a high clock as long as you got a halfway decent gpu. I tested it out running at stock and my overclock its a massive difference.


----------



## sugiik

excuse me i'm new to rts, and just playing starcraft 2...

since i just understand terran (a little)
wanna ask about :
- early - mid game rush...what best unit to use
- mid-late game what best unit to use...
need answer if my opponent were protoss , nor zerg...

sorry for the noob question ^^


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Very very CPU intensive game. I was getting like 20fps with Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz in a 4vs4 match with huge armies. I sow the GPU usage was 25%.


----------



## Wishmaker

The gates of hell







.

P.S: I am not a happy camper. I find it hard to believe that 2 5870 cards and 2 4890 cards can't run this game on ultra at 1600 resolution. I am clocked with my I7 at 4.2 GHz now and I am still getting the powerpoint glory on Char. It makes you wonder how the SC2 benches were made at lower CPU clocks ...


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugiik* 
excuse me i'm new to rts, and just playing starcraft 2...

since i just understand terran (a little)
wanna ask about :
- early - mid game rush...what best unit to use
- mid-late game what best unit to use...
need answer if my opponent were protoss , nor zerg...

sorry for the noob question ^^

it all depends on what your opponent makes and what you force him to make. from a toss perspective, generally, the 2 marauder and 1 marine push in the very beginning can be annoying as hell, sometimes game breaking if your opponent doesnt have good micro. then getting helions and transistioning into mech and slowly pushing out and expanding. well thats how i try to play terran (im a protoss player).

also, there no best unit but battlecrusier are pretty darn close for the terran army. protoss players need templars to feedback then have stalkers blink under them so they can kill it.


----------



## wrekt

Aite - so I tried the siege push in a bunch of 2v2's last night...and it was very effective. Pretty sad i've just about burned through 50 practice games in like 2 days, but whatever. Few more questions.

- Should I push early with the MMM ball after a few siege tanks are in position at the base?

- How do you defend vs. battlecruisers? I've staggered my turrets so they just can't blow them away from a distance, but that doesn't seem to be terribly effective...just slows the cruisers down for a minute.

- Generally how many barracks/factories do you all have?

@ duckyy 
Quote:



then getting helions and transistioning into mech


 - could you explain what transitioning into mech means? Sorry for all the questions...completely new to SC.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *c64dreamer*


Yes, I suck. But I have seen competitive play on G4 and they still do the same thing? Maybe I need to watch more games.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


Aite - so I tried the siege push in a bunch of 2v2's last night...and it was very effective. Pretty sad i've just about burned through 50 practice games in like 2 days, but whatever. Few more questions.

- Should I push early with the MMM ball after a few siege tanks are in position at the base?

- How do you defend vs. battlecruisers? I've staggered my turrets so they just can't blow them away from a distance, but that doesn't seem to be terribly effective...just slows the cruisers down for a minute.

- Generally how many barracks/factories do you all hav

@ duckyy - could you explain what transitioning into mech means? Sorry for all the questions...completely new to 
SC.


Okay so battlecruisers are like the highest tech unit for Terran, so they are hard to kill. One obvious thing go do is continuously scout yor opponent, use scans or run in with a Viking and fly around. If you see that he has a fusion core up, go attack. Don't let him mass bcs. If he already has massed BCs there are a few routes you can go. One is obviously make a Ton of vikings. Vikings have a Long ranged and are alot faster than BCs. Focus fire a BC and run out of ranged, then focus fire again and do the same thing, keep doing this until the bCs are dead. Alternately you cam get Aton of marines. Use stim to go right under he BCs and then focus fire he cursers using stim.


----------



## wrekt

Gotcha...thanks. Should I be leaving stim on with my marines to begin with?


----------



## Wishmaker

I finished the game and I realized that the reason for which I was having difficulties was the order I chose. For some reason, I went guns blazing in the most difficult missions without proper weapons and machines. The Banshee is one hell of a thing. No wonder you kick ass with it







. Anywho, the Zeratul missions were the best in the game. Those Protoss are the coolest race in the game.

HUGE SPOILER PIC SPAM


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


Gotcha...thanks. Should I be leaving stim on with my marines to begin with?


No, stim drains health. Use it only during battles, or when you need your marines to get somewhere really fast. I use stim when running up ramps to get vision during fights or to run through choke points during fights


----------



## sugiik

agree with reapaer man, talking about air unit, i love viking....

hmm another question, 
about thor unit(terran) what he do ?(what his specialty) ground or air unit ?

and about ghost's EMP what it does ?


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Very very CPU intensive game. I was getting like 20fps with Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz in a 4vs4 match with huge armies. I sow the GPU usage was 25%.


About the same on my system. . .

I danced between 20-40frames for the most part.

Great game though I just beat it on normal and I'm gonna go back on Hard.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sugiik*


agree with reapaer man, talking about air unit, i love viking....

hmm another question, 
about thor unit(terran) what he do ?(what his specialty) ground or air unit ?

and about ghost's EMP what it does ?


Thor is a powerful unit against air and ground. He has a powerful ground attack coupled with a strong, splash air attack. The only downsides to the Thor are its size and speed. It also has an ability called the 250mm strike cannon which does a ton of damage to a single unit or building.

EMP is an area of affect spell that drains 100 shields from all units in the area and also completely drains all energy from all units in the area.


----------



## xHassassin

Wow brutal is pretty hard.


----------



## wrekt

Quote:



Thor is a powerful unit against air and ground. He has a powerful ground attack coupled with a strong, splash air attack. The only downsides to the Thor are its size and speed. It also has an ability called the 250mm strike cannon which does a ton of damage to a single unit or building.

EMP is an area of affect spell that drains 100 shields from all units in the area and also completely drains all energy from all units in the area.


At what point do you guys usually upgrade the cannons on those? For the cannon, do you generally use it on battlecruisers? That ability can only be done manually too I assume?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wrekt*


At what point do you guys usually upgrade the cannons on those? For the cannon, do you generally use it on battlecruisers? That ability can only be done manually too I assume?


The only time I've seen the cannons used in competitive games is against Ultras because I believe they one shot them. You'd have to ask a competitive T player though, I'm P. You can only use the cannons on ground units btw.


----------



## WTHbot

Thors VS BC's = dead Thors

I mean thors are strong against air but BC's just have so much health and they can lay down tons of damage with Yomata's. Bc's are considered thors hard counters.

Battlecrusiers hard counter on Terran would have to be Vikings if you have enough of them.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Thors VS BC's = dead Thors

I mean thors are strong against air but BC's just have so much health and they can lay down tons of damage with Yomata's. Bc's are considered thors hard counters.

Battlecrusiers hard counter on Terran would have to be Vikings if you have enough of them.


Yup, not only their health, but their natural 3 armor means Thor's air attack only does 3x4 instead of 6x4.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Yup, not only their health, but their natural 3 armor means Thor's air attack only does 3x4 instead of 6x4.


Vikings though are nice. Very versatile if you can get the micro down with them(Not as good micro as concusive muraders) but you can go on some supply blocks with a pack of Vikings against Zerg easy.

Combind with the fact that you can get them mass produced quiet quickly and you've got your self a nice versitile army. I wouldn't say it's as fast as going an MMM/1/1/1 though.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Vikings though are nice. Very versatile if you can get the micro down with them(Not as good micro as concusive muraders) but you can go on some supply blocks with a pack of Vikings against Zerg easy.

Combind with the fact that you can get them mass produced quiet quickly and you've got your self a nice versitile army. I wouldn't say it's as fast as going an MMM/1/1/1 though.


Vikings are very nice. Probably one of my favorite new units. I just hate going up against them.


----------



## WTHbot

So I'm about to start my campaign on hard just to see how I fair. . .

First time I played through I really really liked this, much more content as for as the single player goes, and the Single player was worth the money for sure. Maybe I'll get into multiplayer more instead of just watching commentators on youtube. . .

This guy is giving me hope that I won't completely suck.


----------



## SVCweyman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


The only time I've seen the cannons used in competitive games is against Ultras because I believe they one shot them. You'd have to ask a competitive T player though, I'm P. You can only use the cannons on ground units btw.


The 250mm cannons used to stun Ultra's, which is why they were used. That was nerfed during the beta. If you have +1 weapons for Thor, you actually deal more DPS just letting it attack normally. After firing off the 250mm cannons, the Thor has a long cooldown, so if you use it, it's recommended to use it to finish off a target instead of starting off with that attack.


----------



## Wishmaker

Gonna start again but first I will format my pc and install the hotfix to see if I have an improvement in overall gameplay. I am very dissapointed with ATI and their lack of interest in probably the best game of 2010. This is how the final mission was for me :

140 FPS ---> 19 FPS---->120--->FPS---->80 FPS--->23 FPS---->140 FPS---->30 FPS---->50 FPS---->20 FPS--->etc.

Over 3/4 of the final mission was like that. I will clock my I7 higher than 4.2 GHz and I will see if this erratic behaviour will go away. I find it hard to believe that an I7 at 4.2, 4.4 GHz bottlenecks in this game. Clearly Blizzard and ATI have missed an opportunity here. Blizzard for not making this game use 4 cores and ATI for their rubbish set of drivers.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Gonna start again but first I will format my pc and install the hotfix to see if I have an improvement in overall gameplay. I am very dissapointed with ATI and their lack of interest in probably the best game of 2010. This is how the final mission was for me :

140 FPS ---> 19 FPS---->120--->FPS---->80 FPS--->23 FPS---->140 FPS---->30 FPS---->50 FPS---->20 FPS--->etc.

Over 3/4 of the final mission was like that. I will clock my I7 higher than 4.2 GHz and I will see if this erratic behaviour will go away. I find it hard to believe that an I7 at 4.2, 4.4 GHz bottlenecks in this game. Clearly Blizzard and ATI have missed an opportunity here. Blizzard for not making this game use 4 cores and ATI for their rubbish set of drivers.


I wasn't getting anything like that. . .

I stayed between 20-40 most of the time. Maybe you shoiuld try a different set of drivers?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I wasn't getting anything like that. . .

I stayed between 20-40 most of the time. Maybe you shoiuld try a different set of drivers?



Were you running it on ultra and with CFX? I have the same behaviour on 2 different I7 rigs :

1. CFX HD4890 XXX
2. CFX HD5870 XXX

Both rigs yield in some cutscenes over 1200 FPS but the gameplay was horrid at times.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sugiik*


agree with reapaer man, talking about air unit, i love viking....

hmm another question, 
about thor unit(terran) what he do ?(what his specialty) ground or air unit ?

and about ghost's EMP what it does ?


The Thor is a good support unit. Thors are good against light air units and good against umarmored ground units. The air damage done by thors has some splash damage too. 
Thors are good against:
Mutalisks 
Hydralisks 
Marines
Maurauders
Tanks
Zealots (provided they don't have charge)
Stalkers
Sentries
Colosi
Phoenixs

They are weak against:
All armored air units: carriers, BCs, banshees, voidrays
Roaches
Chargelots
Zerglings(w/ speed. Weak because thors are easy to surround)








Immortals
Broodlords
Infestors with neural parasite

Thors are best used as a support unit with tanks, marines, maurauders, and medivacs. When in a battle, use the thors to soak up damage. In the front, but make sure it doest get surrounded by zerglings or zealots. Thors are also good to stop mutalisk harass. Just park one at your mineral like til you cN get turrets up. 1 Thor can kill snot 5 mutas no problem


----------



## SilverPotato

Thor's need to be buffed, for them to be sufficient against light air units like Mutas there have to be 3-4... I'm having so much trouble lately with Zerg players spamming mutas I haven't won a single TvZ where my opponent got even 10-15 muta's.

Better yet Muta's need to be nerfed to hell, they're to fast and cheap to justify not getting in mass quantity.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Were you running it on ultra and with CFX? I have the same behaviour on 2 different I7 rigs :

1. CFX HD4890 XXX
2. CFX HD5870 XXX

Both rigs yield in some cutscenes over 1200 FPS but the gameplay was horrid at times.


I'm on the highest available settings at 1680x1050. I hit about 1000 at cut scenes.


----------



## Coma

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Both rigs yield in some cutscenes over 1200 FPS but the gameplay was horrid at times.


Those are pre-rendered video cutscenes.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Coma*


Those are pre-rendered video cutscenes.


This should go without saying.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Coma*


Those are pre-rendered video cutscenes.



Yeah but a limit would have sufficed if you are not using V-SYNC. I don't want my cards to fry







. In any case, Blizzard should have done better!!!!


----------



## Coma

Nah, that isn't actually intensive, despite the high FPS. It just renders the same frame a bajillion times. It'll just cause tearing.

What's your Battle.net name and code? There are very few EU SC2 players on OCN, we should trade info


----------



## kurt1288

I'm having so much trouble 1v1 as zerg. I'm 1 for 7 today







. The game's really fun though.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Thor's need to be buffed, for them to be sufficient against light air units like Mutas there have to be 3-4... I'm having so much trouble lately with Zerg players spamming mutas I haven't won a single TvZ where my opponent got even 10-15 muta's.

Better yet Muta's need to be nerfed to hell, they're to fast and cheap to justify not getting in mass quantity.


Cost for cost, Thors own mutas. If a Z is just spamming mutas, why not just spam Thors? If you only have 2-3 Thors against 10-15 mutas, of course you're going to lose. T has a 900/600/18 army against the 1500/1500/30 army of Z. Thors don't need a buff and mutas don't need a nerf, they're fine the way they are. The answer to more mutas is more Thors


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Thor's need to be buffed, for them to be sufficient against light air units like Mutas there have to be 3-4... I'm having so much trouble lately with Zerg players spamming mutas I haven't won a single TvZ where my opponent got even 10-15 muta's.

Better yet Muta's need to be nerfed to hell, they're to fast and cheap to justify not getting in mass quantity.


Dude muta's are pretty expensive, I believe around the price of void rays, and are only decent when massed. If you're getting beat by massed muta's you're letting you're opponent get too many expos. You also should realize that they will eat up all his gas so you only need to contend with zergs and roaches once you get sufficant aa to push hard.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Cost for cost, Thors own mutas. If a Z is just spamming mutas, why not just spam Thors? If you only have 2-3 Thors against 10-15 mutas, of course you're going to lose. T has a 900/600/18 army against the 1500/1500/30 army of Z. Thors don't need a buff and mutas don't need a nerf, they're fine the way they are. The answer to more mutas is more Thors


Because I can't get more than one out in time without sacrificing other units... And if I only have Thors then the Zerg will being those stupid speed lings and rip down my wall and eat the Thors...

Believe me I've tried everything.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Because I can't get more than one out in time without sacrificing other units... And if I only have Thors then the Zerg will being those stupid speed lings and rip down my wall and eat the Thors...

Believe me I've tried everything.


You can't get out more than one Thor by the time Z has massed mutas? No offense, but you're doing something wrong, then. You should easily be able to keep up Thor production to match a Z's muta production, while still maintaining your tank/MMM army. Don't forget to turret up as well. Turrets are unbelievably cost effective versus mutas and they alleviate the one problem Thor's have against mutas which is mobility.

With a game like Starcraft, you can't possibly have tried everything, especially with just under a week of gameplay (more if in beta).

Just curious, what league are you in/what is your SC experience?


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


You can't get out more than one Thor by the time Z has massed mutas? No offense, but you're doing something wrong, then. You should easily be able to keep up Thor production to match a Z's muta production, while still maintaining your tank/MMM army. Don't forget to turret up as well. Turrets are unbelievably cost effective versus mutas and they alleviate the one problem Thor's have against mutas which is mobility.

With a game like Starcraft, you can't possibly have tried everything, especially with just under a week of gameplay (more if in beta).

Just curious, what league are you in/what is your SC experience?


I just said I could, but the issue is that I can't use my minerals on anything like rines or other units because I'm having to poor all my resourcing into Thors... Then when I try to expand to keep my resourcing up I get blocked by those stupid lings...

I've played SC1 for over 6 years, I was very good at it... My APM averages around 100 in SC2 (150ish in SC1) and i've never had problems with Muta's in SC1

The issue is that these Zerg players get 20~ speed lings, 2 something queens then go straight for Mutas... I can't get in there fast enough to do anything about it. I lose my raines/rauds, then the Zerg pops 6-7 mutas and just camps out side my base until I run out of minerals and he eventually swallows me up. Usually once they see my thors they go for BLs


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


The Thor is a good support unit. Thors are good against light air units and good against umarmored ground units. The air damage done by thors has some splash damage too. 
Thors are good against:
Mutalisks 
Hydralisks 
Marines
Maurauders
Tanks
Zealots (provided they don't have charge)
Stalkers
Sentries
Colosi
Phoenixs

They are weak against:
All armored air units: carriers, BCs, banshees, voidrays
Roaches
Chargelots
Zerglings(w/ speed. Weak because thors are easy to surround)








Immortals
Broodlords
Infestors with neural parasite


Thors get melted by marauders, hidras, collosus ( range 9 if you meet half decent toss your never gonna get in range for a shot)
Banshees get raped by thors since they are light. 
Thors are only good for drops or vs heavy muta zerg. Good vs tanks only if tanks are in small numbers or your gonna get melted.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Because I can't get more than one out in time without sacrificing other units... And if I only have Thors then the Zerg will being those stupid speed lings and rip down my wall and eat the Thors...

Believe me I've tried everything.


Try rax, make few marines, factory, reactor on rax, switch rax factory, get 2 hellions, harass with hellions, if he only has zerglings, add hellions, get starport, switch with factory, get 2 vikings, if he already have mutas (which should be delayed by your hellion harassment) add vikings, harass he's overlords, build tech lab at factory, build armory, then engineering bay, add 2 factories build turrets at mineral lines and at borders of your base, produce hellions, thors from 2 factories, vikings, maybe few tanks if he actually does anything except ling/muta, upgrade weapons at the armory, 1a, gg.

I'm by no means a Terran expert but Zerg usually has a hard live against them.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Try rax, make few marines, factory, reactor on rax, switch rax factory, get 2 hellions, harass with hellions, if he only has zerglings, add hellions, get starport, switch with factory, get 2 vikings, if he already have mutas (which should be delayed by your hellion harassment) add vikings, harass he's overlords, build tech lab at factory, build armory, then engineering bay, add 2 factories build turrets at mineral lines and at borders of your base, produce hellions, thors from 2 factories, vikings, maybe few tanks if he actually does anything except ling/muta, upgrade weapons at the armory, 1a, gg.

I'm by no means a Terran expert but Zerg usually has a hard live against them.


Vikings are a horrible answer to Muta's









Slow and almost no damage to light units


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Vikings are a horrible answer to Muta's









Slow and almost no damage to light units


They aren't slow at all. While slower then mutas, they are definitely more mobile than thors and can support your turrets and thors easily, plus their 9 range gives you some free shots when defending. Also you should be able to get them before mutas and hopefully kill some overlords furtherly delying them.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Thor's need to be buffed, for them to be sufficient against light air units like Mutas there have to be 3-4... I'm having so much trouble lately with Zerg players spamming mutas I haven't won a single TvZ where my opponent got even 10-15 muta's.

Better yet Muta's need to be nerfed to hell, they're to fast and cheap to justify not getting in mass quantity.


Thors and mutas are fine where they are. If you scout mutas they can easily be stopped. And what are you talking about.. Even one Thor is effective against mutas

Edit: make marines if your opponent is massing so many mutas... Marines are cheaper and will just destroy mutas with stim.


----------



## JTD92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Thors and mutas are fine where they are. If you scout mutas they can easily be stopped. And what are you talking about.. Even one Thor is effective against mutas

Edit: make marines if your opponent is massing so many mutas... Marines are cheaper and will just destroy mutas with stim.


Thors shreds a group of unsuspecting Mutalisk in seconds.


----------



## Coma

But they lack mobility. Marines can get around quickly using Stim or inside Medivacs.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
But they lack mobility. Marines can get around quickly using Stim or inside Medivacs.


But thors are alot stronger than rines; thors weren't just made for countering mutas.


----------



## Coma

It doesn't matter if they can't get to the fight in time. If you have multiple bases, Thors are not a very good idea because they're expensive and slow moving, and the Mutas will just go elsewhere. Just getting to the right place in your base can take too long. For base defense, Marines, Medivacs and Turrets should be used. Thors should only be used to counter Mutas as part of your main force.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
It doesn't matter if they can't get to the fight in time. If you have multiple bases, Thors are not a very good idea because they're expensive and slow moving, and the Mutas will just go elsewhere. Just getting to the right place in your base can take too long. For base defense, Marines, Medivacs and Turrets should be used. Thors should only be used to counter Mutas as part of your main force.

Again, I said thors are not just for mutas... I said you could use thors to defend a base until you get turrets up. And honestly as Terran you should be building planetary fortresses and turrets at your out expo


----------



## Coma

Unless your base is really small, no -- you can't use Thors to defend a base until you get turrets up. Thors are really good against Mutas because they have high armor so they suffer little damage from a Muta's main attack and next to zero (or even zero) from the jump, but their lack of mobility makes their uses limited.

You can only use them as part of your main force, to defend a small base, or if you can successfully predict or scout the destination of a chunk of Mutas. They can't be used as a reactionary force past the midgame.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
It doesn't matter if they can't get to the fight in time. If you have multiple bases, Thors are not a very good idea because they're expensive and slow moving, and the Mutas will just go elsewhere. Just getting to the right place in your base can take too long. For base defense, Marines, Medivacs and Turrets should be used. Thors should only be used to counter Mutas as part of your main force.

Again, I said thors are not just for mutas... I said you could use thors to defend a base until you get turrets up. And honestly as Terran you should be building planetary fortresses and turrets at your outer expos. If you're facing off against immortals, storms, or mass hydra.. Thors are a great idea to have in your attack force

Sorry stupid phone double posts, also planetary expos are cheap even if it is a small xpo


----------



## godofdeath

what is the terran counter to stalkers early game?
marauders?


----------



## Coma

Marauders do bonus damage to Armored, but Stalkers do too (Stalkers have more health but Marauders do more damage).

On the other hand, Stalkers have a very hard time against a big group of Marines. Marines are not Armored, so Stalkers only do 10 damage to them. Marines are cheap and expendable and it takes 5 Stalkers to one-shot a marine. Combine all that with the slow Stalker attack speed, and I think Marines are more efficient at countering Stalkers than Marauders.

But if you're massing Marines and your opponent is massing Stalkers, he's really bad. A pure Stalker force is really only used as a counter to certain things, otherwise you'll probably see a mixture of units. If your opponent used Stalkers as a counter and you're now massing Marines, he should be massing something else soon (probably Zealots, Sentries, HTs and/or Colossi).


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Marauders do bonus damage to Armored, but Stalkers do too (Stalkers have more health but Marauders do more damage).

On the other hand, Stalkers have a very hard time against a big group of Marines.

o yea is there a list of units that the marauders slow with their missile thing


----------



## Wishmaker

I don't fancy ground troops that much when it comes to terrains. As soon as I have the necessary upgrades and technology I slowly shift my approach to Ghosts, Cruisers, Wraith and Banshees. I do admit that in the final mission the Thor's came in handy. I had 3 placed as backup on every important position to the tens of flame turrets, air turrets, wraiths and battle cruisers.

If I play Protoss, things change. Their ground troops are amazing and the zealot rush is such a nice feature







. I prefer it to the marine andrenaline rush








.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
o yea is there a list of units that the marauders slow with their missile thing

Everything that isn't a Massive unit. I think the ground Massive units are Colossi, Ultralisks and Thors.

Wishmaker: Do you play on the EU Battle.net?


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Marauders do bonus damage to Armored, but Stalkers do too (Stalkers have more health but Marauders do more damage).

On the other hand, Stalkers have a very hard time against a big group of Marines. Marines are not Armored, so Stalkers only do 10 damage to them. Marines are cheap and expendable and it takes 5 Stalkers to one-shot a marine. Combine all that with the slow Stalker attack speed, and I think Marines are more efficient at countering Stalkers than Marauders.

But if you're massing Marines and your opponent is massing Stalkers, he's really bad. A pure Stalker force is really only used as a counter to certain things, otherwise you'll probably see a mixture of units. If your opponent used Stalkers as a counter and you're now massing Marines, he should be massing something else soon (probably Zealots, Sentries, HTs and/or Colossi).

1vs1 Marauder will win with 10-25hp left against a stalker. Stalkers are ridiculously good vs marines since 2 stalkers could kill around 20 marines with good micro, atack range difference and speed makes that big difference


----------



## Coma

Wasn't sure on the math. Still have to factor in cost.

About the 2 Stalkers vs 20 Marines thingie... well, 2 Stalkers won't be able to kill even a single Marine before they died if they were facing 20 Marines head on. Since it requires micro, it means the Marines have to be chasing the Stalkers around for a long time. If the Stalkers don't face the rines head on at some point, it means they (the marines) can either defend freely (2 Stalkers can't go inside your base if you have 20 marines at the gate) or wreak havoc on what they're attacking. Even if the couple keep running in and out of range and pick off rines, it'll be quite a while before they kill even 5, and meanwhile the rines are stopping your economy or killing your buildings.

Honestly though, if you've only 2 stalkers against 20 marines, you probably failed hard at scouting, or you're doing placement matches against someone way better than you, so that isn't really relevant.

20 Stalkers vs 20 Stimmed Marines, it would be pretty close, but I think the rines would win, just because of attack speed. It's a pretty safe bet that a Terran player's researched stim if he's going heavy bio by the time there are 20 Stalkers out.

Grain of salt, etc, since again I didn't do the math.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Everything that isn't a Massive unit. I think the ground Massive units are Colossi, Ultralisks and Thors.

Wishmaker: Do you play on the EU Battle.net?










Not yet. I don't want to get humiliated







. I need to learn how to play first and then I will go all Zeratul on your tushies







. I am too slow when it comes to development ... gotta up my game







.


----------



## Coma

Only way to improve is to play and observe


----------



## godofdeath

i really need to start playing online and getting killed so i can learn lol


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Wasn't sure on the math. Still have to factor in cost.

About the 2 Stalkers vs 20 Marines thingie... well, 2 Stalkers won't be able to kill even a single Marine before they died if they were facing 20 Marines head on. Since it requires micro, it means the Marines have to be chasing the Stalkers around for a long time. If the Stalkers don't face the rines head on at some point, it means they (the marines) can either defend freely (2 Stalkers can't go inside your base if you have 20 marines at the gate) or wreak havoc on what they're attacking. Even if the couple keep running in and out of range and pick off rines, it'll be quite a while before they kill even 5, and meanwhile the rines are stopping your economy or killing your buildings.

Honestly though, if you've only 2 stalkers against 20 marines, you probably failed hard at scouting, or you're doing placement matches against someone way better than you, so that isn't really relevant.

20 Stalkers vs 20 Stimmed Marines, it would be pretty close, but I think the rines would win, just because of attack speed. It's a pretty safe bet that a Terran player's researched stim if he's going heavy bio by the time there are 20 Stalkers out.

Grain of salt, etc, since again I didn't do the math.

Blink micro is really op, so is the way high ground works in SCII. So yeah, 2 stalkers could theoretically take on 20 marines if they just walked up and down cliffs like colossus do.. Never seen a game yet where protoss uses blink stalkers to harass, idk why, it would seem so effective.

Which brings me to the point that colossus are so op vs zerg ground.


----------



## Wishmaker

So I finished setting up my sig rig after a full format and I am using AA forced via the catalyst. If I use edge detect, the best AA method BTW, i get black squares in the cutscenes. If I use the normal box method, I get a tearing on vertical in the cutscenes ....

ATI, oh ATI!


----------



## godofdeath

i hate the thor/arnold voice








they coulda used something better


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
Wasn't sure on the math. Still have to factor in cost.

About the 2 Stalkers vs 20 Marines thingie... well, 2 Stalkers won't be able to kill even a single Marine before they died if they were facing 20 Marines head on. Since it requires micro, it means the Marines have to be chasing the Stalkers around for a long time. If the Stalkers don't face the rines head on at some point, it means they (the marines) can either defend freely (2 Stalkers can't go inside your base if you have 20 marines at the gate) or wreak havoc on what they're attacking. Even if the couple keep running in and out of range and pick off rines, it'll be quite a while before they kill even 5, and meanwhile the rines are stopping your economy or killing your buildings.

Honestly though, if you've only 2 stalkers against 20 marines, you probably failed hard at scouting, or you're doing placement matches against someone way better than you, so that isn't really relevant.

20 Stalkers vs 20 Stimmed Marines, it would be pretty close, but I think the rines would win, just because of attack speed. It's a pretty safe bet that a Terran player's researched stim if he's going heavy bio by the time there are 20 Stalkers out.

Grain of salt, etc, since again I didn't do the math.


Just been talking about own experience against terrans who go 1/1/1 with my initial first 2 stalkers i easily pick of most of his early marines or a supply depot until his tank shows with out taking health damage only shield.

And meant 20 rines vs 2 stalkers in complete open zone where you could pull back








Same as single viking could deal with multiple bc's if your good with micro would take ages but you never get touched due to range and speed difference.
20 stalkers vs 20 stimmed marines would be easy victory for stalkers i would presume with 10+ stalkers left since after stim you would need only 4 shots from a stalker. And stalker has over 3 times health then marine









Marauder vs stalker. Marauder costs 25 mineral and 25 gas less then Stalker. And easily wins 1vs1 fight. 20 stimmer rauders would eat 20 stalkers for breakfast and ask for more.


----------



## NrGx

Ghosts are now my favorite unit after doing the Nova mission. She's a feisty one


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
i hate the thor/arnold voice








they coulda used something better

Whoa, let's not say things we can't take back


----------



## Wishmaker

Unbelivable... I am clocked at 4.4 GHz on my C0, running into the 1.52V range, my HD4890XXX cards are not running on 1050 core and I've got the same frame drops and erratic behaviour like before. I even took out the "reduce mouse lag option" which according to Blizzard it reduces FPS!


----------



## Coma

CF is most likely the culprit. Blizzard sucks, I know.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Uantyv* 
Just been talking about own experience against terrans who go 1/1/1 with my initial first 2 stalkers i easily pick of most of his early marines or a supply depot until his tank shows with out taking health damage only shield.

And meant 20 rines vs 2 stalkers in complete open zone where you could pull back








Same as single viking could deal with multiple bc's if your good with micro would take ages but you never get touched due to range and speed difference.
20 stalkers vs 20 stimmed marines would be easy victory for stalkers i would presume with 10+ stalkers left since after stim you would need only 4 shots from a stalker. And stalker has over 3 times health then marine









Marauder vs stalker. Marauder costs 25 mineral and 25 gas less then Stalker. And easily wins 1vs1 fight. 20 stimmer rauders would eat 20 stalkers for breakfast and ask for more.

You're right. The Marines lose, I actually tested it







And they were 45/55 HP Marines.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Unbelivable... I am clocked at 4.4 GHz on my C0, running into the 1.52V range, my HD4890XXX cards are not running on 1050 core and I've got the same frame drops and erratic behaviour like before. I even took out the "reduce mouse lag option" which according to Blizzard it reduces FPS!

my i7 is running at stock and I'm staying constant at 60+ FPS


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
i hate the thor/arnold voice








they coulda used something better

"I am heyah click me!"


----------



## benyu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
Very very CPU intensive game. I was getting like 20fps with Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz in a 4vs4 match with huge armies. I sow the GPU usage was 25%.

wow.. i can't believe it man!! must be bottlenecked with that cpu! i am getting constant max in every aspect of the game in my sig rig


----------



## Twistacles

For those of you who don't know, here are some good resources to step up your game.

*Day9's Commentary:*
Pretty much the best in the business, an A+ player in ICCUP and very solid random player, he has the most interesting and amusing commentaries out there, aswell as some tutorials and such.
http://day9tv.blip.tv/
http://www.ustream.tv/day9tv

*TL:* Speaks for itself. The hub of North-American Starcraft E-Sports. Like, 90% of the members are Diamond. You can find plenty of tournaments to sign up for and such.
http://www.teamliquid.net/

If you're a beginner, Husky's or HDstarcraft's channels are good, but remember what they do is mostly for entrainment, and once you start getting into Platinum+, it's time to move on.
http://www.youtube.com/user/huskystarcraft?blend=1&ob=4

I don't mean to be rude, but this thread is plagued by misinformation and theory-crafting. I'd refer to the above.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
For those of you who don't know, here are some good resources to step up your game.

*Day9's Commentary:*
Pretty much the best in the business, an A+ player in ICCUP and very solid random player, he has the most interesting and amusing commentaries out there, aswell as some tutorials and such.
http://day9tv.blip.tv/
http://www.ustream.tv/day9tv

Except he constantly pauses during his commentaries... at least on the ones I've seen


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


Except he constantly pauses during his commentaries... at least on the ones I've seen


He does it to help the viewers. His commentaries are also for helping the viewers learn strategy, not just entertainment [although they are entertaining too]. He pauses often to show people what went wrong, ect.


----------



## NrGx

How do I take screenshots in game?


----------



## Wishmaker

I use FRAPS and I assign the screenshot / record keys to my numpad. If I don't I have some issues because most of the F- keys are allocated in SC II.


----------



## WTHbot

Epic nailbiter end of this mission, I was surprised how much pressure the Hard difficulty could put on me. . .










It's not easy but I really really like the photo finish feeling. . .


----------



## Xealot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


How do I take screenshots in game?


I use Print Screen (this will save jpg screens to the Documents/Starcraft II folder) since every key seems to be bound to something and you can't change the binds.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xealot*


I use Print Screen (this will save jpg screens to the Documents/Starcraft II folder) since every key seems to be bound to something and you can't change the binds.


Thanks for that! Exactly what I was looking for.










1920x1200, Ultra Settings, 4xMSAA


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Epic nailbiter end of this mission, I was surprised how much pressure the Hard difficulty could put on me. . .










It's not easy but I really really like the photo finish feeling. . .


wait, you finished the campain on hard?
I cant seem to get past 75% on the final mission.

*END GAME SPOILER BE CAREFULL BELOW!*
I chose to take out the nydus worms in the mission right before and i always got my ground forces pwned by air units. Maybe i shoulda done the other way. Ill try it when i get the chance.

Kerrigan pisses me off at the end though. 1 shot kill on ANY unit I have sucks. I can irradiate her from far but she just takes out my vessels and continues on..


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


wait, you finished the campain on hard?
I cant seem to get past 75% on the final mission.

*END GAME SPOILER BE CAREFULL BELOW!*
I chose to take out the nydus worms in the mission right before and i always got my ground forces pwned by air units. Maybe i shoulda done the other way. Ill try it when i get the chance.

Kerrigan pisses me off at the end though. 1 shot kill on ANY unit I have sucks. I can irradiate her from far but she just takes out my vessels and continues on..


No I haven't beaten it on hard yet. . . I just started this campaign. I was just showing that screen and how close I came to failing.

I just did Red stone and that was long and drawn out. .

I did beat this on normal yesterday, and I know Kerrigan always took out my larger units. . .

If you have Ghosts though 4 of them with snipe will take her out pretty easy or so I've been told.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Anybody else finish starcraft 2.. and then go directly into the SC1 campaign? I know I did, I'm trying to get myself out of "1 control group syndrome" and SC1 pretty much forces it. Also, you guys HAVE to watch the King of the Beta finals, Idra vs. Tester. Such mind-blowing games. It's on day [9]'s blip.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


Anybody else finish starcraft 2.. and then go directly into the SC1 campaign? I know I did, I'm trying to get myself out of "1 control group syndrome" and SC1 pretty much forces it. Also, you guys HAVE to watch the King of the Beta finals, Idra vs. Tester. Such mind-blowing games. It's on day [9]'s blip.


Where does Day9 have his videos at?

Neither HD or Husky have posted it on youtube. . .


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


Anybody else finish starcraft 2.. and then go directly into the SC1 campaign? I know I did, I'm trying to get myself out of "1 control group syndrome" and SC1 pretty much forces it. Also, you guys HAVE to watch the King of the Beta finals, Idra vs. Tester. Such mind-blowing games. It's on day [9]'s blip.


It is a challenge for me to keep what is going on in my head on different parts of the map. Once I learned some hotkeys and control groups I had some hope in managing everything. The hotkeys just make everything 100x more efficient.

I just wish the map view snapped to your selection instead of me having to zoom around the map.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Where does Day9 have his videos at?

Neither HD or Husky have posted it on youtube. . .


http://day9tv.blip.tv/

If you want to watch the whole series, it's probably easier to get them in order using his links from the forum:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=104154

He puts his old dailies on there too..

dammit, just realized I missed last night's daily. It just isn't the same when it's not live









Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


It is a challenge for me to keep what is going on in my head on different parts of the map. Once I learned some hotkeys and control groups I had some hope in managing everything. The hotkeys just make everything 100x more efficient.

I just wish the map view snapped to your selection instead of me having to zoom around the map.


Hit the key twice, problem solved. I know most of the hotkeys and make myself use them. My problem is more that I get flustered easily and lose track of all the stuff I'm supposed to be doing. Playing SC1 is also about mileage, for me.


----------



## Wishmaker

Started my new campaign. Doing things in a different order. I will finish the TOSH missions first so I can get the Ghost units







. Heheh, can't wait to nuke them


----------



## WTHbot

Wow. . .Blip.tv has made my computer shut off twice. . . I'm min firefox safe mode so it wouldn't open up that page again. . .

Something must really be wrong with my flash. . .


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


Anybody else finish starcraft 2.. and then go directly into the SC1 campaign? I know I did, I'm trying to get myself out of "1 control group syndrome" and SC1 pretty much forces it. Also, you guys HAVE to watch the King of the Beta finals, Idra vs. Tester. Such mind-blowing games. It's on day [9]'s blip.


tester =) my favorite sc2 player. i love the tester vs tlo series. suck crazy unit mix and mad builds.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Wow. . .Blip.tv has made my computer shut off twice. . . I'm min firefox safe mode so it wouldn't open up that page again. . .

Something must really be wrong with my flash. . .


Yo dude, do you get a BSOD from ATI driver failure? I did aswell when i tried to watch either the semi-final or finals of the king of the beta videos.

I was using catalyst 10.6 but updating to 10.7 solved the problem for me.

Hope this helps







,
Matt


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Yo dude, do you get a BSOD from ATI driver failure? I did aswell when i tried to watch either the semi-final or finals of the king of the beta videos.

I was using catalyst 10.6 but updating to 10.7 solved the problem for me.

Hope this helps







,
Matt


Not a BSOD, just a freeze up and an immediate restart, much like the ones I used to see back when I used linux due to flash as well. Leads me to believe this is more hardware/ gpu bios problem. . .

I might change drivers. . .

Just when I thought I finally had some good ones too. . .(10.4)

EDIT: I need to say this but in SC2 if I've had my computer in sleep at all, if I play the game at every load screen my GPU dies and I have to restart it. Very odd stuff.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


tester =) my favorite sc2 player. i love the tester vs tlo series. suck crazy unit mix and mad builds.


Never seen Tester play, I want to but Blip.tv i s giving me problems. . .

My favorite would have to be Masq!







YouTube- HD Starcraft 2 IdrA v Masq g1 p1/1
I've not seen him lose but the games I have seen have been amazing.


----------



## Sodalink

I'm wondering... do the upgrades you do with protos or zerg research apply for MP? Because I've made some choices thinking about SP, but if I were thinking of MP I would have chosen something else. I'm just right before getting ghosts.

Also do the Protos and Zerg campaings are expansions coming up or they are already in the game. I've heard mixed comments on both.

by the way can you replay missions later on after beating the game to get the rest of the achievements?


----------



## ~Strawberry~

Thinking about getting this game, how well should it run with 460 sli?


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sodalink*


I'm wondering... do the upgrades you do with protos or zerg research apply for MP? Because I've made some choices thinking about SP, but if I were thinking of MP I would have chosen something else. I'm just right before getting ghosts.

Also do the Protos and Zerg campaings are expansions coming up or they are already in the game. I've heard mixed comments on both.

by the way can you replay missions later on after beating the game to get the rest of the achievements?


I don't think your SIngle player choices affect multiplayer at all . . . You don't get the same gameplay on multiplayer anyway.

If you want to see multiplayer gameplay on singleplayer go play a skirmish.

Also yes you can play the game after you beat it and still get achievements and research if you missed any.


----------



## ZainyAntics

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sodalink*


I'm wondering... do the upgrades you do with protos or zerg research apply for MP? Because I've made some choices thinking about SP, but if I were thinking of MP I would have chosen something else. I'm just right before getting ghosts.

Also do the Protos and Zerg campaings are expansions coming up or they are already in the game. I've heard mixed comments on both.

by the way can you replay missions later on after beating the game to get the rest of the achievements?


1. No, that would be unbalanced.

2. No, they are being releases and stand alone xpacs

3. Yes, I believe you'll need to start a whole new campaign.


----------



## WTHbot

Blip.tv+ firefox = crash and burn

Blip.tv+ chrome = Yay starcraft broadcasting.

Looks like I'll be using Chrome for the next few days.

Edit: looks like Chrome doesn't work. My computer shut off as soon as the advertisement when off.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Wow. . .Blip.tv has made my computer shut off twice. . . I'm min firefox safe mode so it wouldn't open up that page again. . .

Something must really be wrong with my flash. . .


You need to upgrade your drivers or disable hardware acceleration for flash.

edit: Apparently you can't say LMAO with an F in the middle.







YouTube- Day9 Scream!


----------



## rusky1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *~Strawberry~*


Thinking about getting this game, how well should it run with 460 sli?


You'll be completely fine. My sig rig gets about 30-35 fps on average with everything on Ultra running @ 1680x1050 res.


----------



## nlsthzn

Seems that the higher resolutions really tax systems... I only have a Q6600 (not OC), a 8800GT (factory OC) and I have everything at Ultra except for the textures which are set to High as my card only has 512MB of memory and I am having very decent playable frame rates at 1280x1024.

I hope my 17" Syncmaster does not die on me soon as it seems harder and harder to get displays smaller than 20"...


----------



## thiru

You call 1024p high?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *~Strawberry~*


Thinking about getting this game, how well should it run with 460 sli?



Make sure you get some feedback from your NVIDIA mates here on OCN. ATI has some issues with this game. CFX has fluctuations and stuttering. From what I've seen, NVIDIA seems to make better drivers for multi-gpu setups. You could be fine but it does not hurt to check first.

For me, CFX sucked the fun out of the final mission in campaign. The first 40-50 seconds were horrible, I could not do anything without waiting more than a few seconds for the mouse to move. Fraps was saying I was having 5-15 FPS with increases to 40 then drops to 15 again. It picked up afterwards but bear in mind this was on my 2nd rig with CFX HD5870 XXX which can max out at my 1600 resolution every game out there.

I've noticed a pattern on OCN. When people ask how does SC II run on your machine, everyone says don't worry you will be fine. When you ask more details they give you their average FPS with "the occasional drops in cutscenes". For some of us, this is unacceptable with 1000 euro GPU power. I did not pay this much to see my FPS go down to 30 or less.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Make sure you get some feedback from your NVIDIA mates here on OCN. ATI has some issues with this game. CFX has fluctuations and stuttering. From what I've seen, NVIDIA seems to make better drivers for multi-gpu setups. You could be fine but it does not hurt to check first.

For me, CFX sucked the fun out of the final mission in campaign. The first 40-50 seconds were horrible, I could not do anything without waiting more than a few seconds for the mouse to move. Fraps was saying I was having 5-15 FPS with increases to 40 then drops to 15 again. It picked up afterwards but bear in mind this was on my 2nd rig with CFX HD5870 XXX which can max out at my 1600 resolution every game out there.

I've noticed a pattern on OCN. When people ask how does SC II run on your machine, everyone says don't worry you will be fine. When you ask more details they give you their average FPS with "the occasional drops in cutscenes". For some of us, this is unacceptable with 1000 euro GPU power. I did not pay this much to see my FPS go down to 30 or less.


Has Blizzard ever supported multi-gpu set ups?

I doubt the original Starcraft or Warcraft 3 had support for it, and I remember WoW also not supporting it. Factor in that ATI's drivers are hit and miss (mostly miss really) and there inlies your problem.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


You need to upgrade your drivers or disable hardware acceleration for flash.

edit: Apparently you can't say LMAO with an F in the middle.
YouTube- Day9 Scream!












Oh man, I was watching live and just about fell out of my chair when he did that. Day[9] is so epic.


----------



## Coma

Quote:



Originally Posted by *~Strawberry~*


Thinking about getting this game, how well should it run with 460 sli?


I have a single 460 1GB and I get 30+ FPS. Average is probably like 50. I estimate you'll get 60-75 avg if SLI doesn't cause you trouble.

After trying that Marine vs Stalker battle yesterday in the editor, I realized how convenient it was so I started learning to use it... I kinda want to make a DotA-ish game that actually makes sense story-wise, but designing the map (both visually and layout-wise) will be a real effort. Do you guys think I should bother? I'm already well-versed enough to do it and I made a simple map, but I already reached a hurdle - the map was too big (took too long to get from one side to the other) so I had to start from scratch. The editor does make it kind of hard to change terrain after the fact, so I'm just not sure if I should start spending a lot of time on that.


----------



## WTHbot

Haha kinda reminds me of the Diablo game in Starcraft 1.

Another really cool ontopic reference would be that the arcade in the Cantina in the single player game was made with the editor. Really really crazy proffessional stuff if you ask me.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch* 
You need to upgrade your drivers or disable *hardware acceleration* for flash.

edit: Apparently you can't say LMAO with an F in the middle.
YouTube- Day9 Scream!

Bingo, got it.

Thank you and +rep for that. +rep for Matt aswell for trying to help. ;D

Also I won't change drivers, everything newer by ATI has been fail(after 10.4) for me and the only other driver I can trust is my trusty CD drivers haha.

I've gotten this system nice and stable and it actually runs pretty damn well for what I spent on it.


----------



## Jago-Vs-Fulgore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
Bingo, got it.

Thank you and +rep for that. +rep for Matt aswell for trying to help. ;D

Also I won't change drivers, everything newer by ATI has been fail(after 10.4) for me and the only other driver I can trust is my trusty CD drivers haha.

I've gotten this system nice and stable and it actually runs pretty damn well for what I spent on it.


hey if you guys need Sc2 key or the entire game let me know. Me & a friend are selling our copys


----------



## rhed5

Assuming you've already reigstered your cdkeys, how are you going to sell them? Give your id&pw?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You call 1024p high?

Not sure if this was directed to me... also not sure what 1024p is (Google also didn't)? ...but if it was directed at my comment about 1280x1024 then no, I didn't mean it was high, I meant it was low, and because it is I can play SC2 with lots of eye candy on no problem (and it looks great as this is my screens native resolution)...

... if not directed at me, my bad (but then again, there is a reason for the quote funtion)...


----------



## Wishmaker

He called it 1024p because of your resolution. Not a standard for HD. We use 720p, 1080i/1080p, 4K.


----------



## thiru

Yeah directed at you, I was too lazy to write 1280x1024.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah directed at you, I was too lazy to write 1280x1024.









(but not to lazy to replay and write it







)


----------



## thiru

I'm on my desktop now.


----------



## xHassassin

Ok so I was thinking about purchasing this game a few hours ago (I know crazy idea right) and I came across this review. Does SCII really have region locking and no chat rooms? I knew people were making a huge deal out of LAN play but I don't really care about that. All I know is that if I'm forced to only play on east coast servers on my game copy that's probably going to break the deal for me.


----------



## Coma

Not East Coast, NA. (Australia is on the SEA servers)


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Ok so I was thinking about purchasing this game a few hours ago (I know crazy idea right) and I came across this review. Does SCII really have region locking and no chat rooms? I knew people were making a huge deal out of LAN play but I don't really care about that. All I know is that if I'm forced to only play on east coast servers on my game copy that's probably going to break the deal for me.










As I understand it the region locking is by country, or at least divided into areas at least as large as the continental US, so all US players are in the same system.

No LAN, and no chat rooms, although bliz has hinted that chat rooms may still be in development. You do have a party system, which while vastly inferior to chat rooms, at least facilitates some sort of communication between groups of players.


----------



## NrGx

Australians will be moved to the US servers if they want in another 50 days.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

Best read there is









http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...9529380?page=1

Oh and for those who play, add me.
I'm Traniz on SCII.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Ok so I was thinking about purchasing this game a few hours ago (I know crazy idea right) and I came across this review. Does SCII really have region locking and no chat rooms? I knew people were making a huge deal out of LAN play but I don't really care about that. All I know is that if I'm forced to only play on east coast servers on my game copy that's probably going to break the deal for me.










It's true. No chatrooms and regions are separated into NA and EU. I believe Blizzard did say they will add a chatroom feature in the future. Seems like bnet2 was made for a console or something. Yes bnet2 is far from impressive but it didnt stop me from buying the game. Bnet2 is the only thing that is preventing SC2 from getting consistent perfect reviews imo but gameplay is the most important factor in any game for me.


----------



## Uantyv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecchi-BANZAII!!!* 
Best read there is









http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...9529380?page=1

Oh and for those who play, add me.
I'm Traniz on SCII.

This is pretty freaking epic and the guy claims that he played sc1


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecchi-BANZAII!!!* 
Best read there is









http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...9529380?page=1

Oh and for those who play, add me.
I'm Traniz on SCII.











thanks for the laugh mate!


----------



## Tatakai All

Here's my character name and code if anyone wants to add me, it's also in my sig. Kenpachi / 212


----------



## sparkle128

OMG... I also peed myself. I thought this was going to be some sorta good joke at the end, but no! OMG.... too too funny. Tech support must of had every agent around reading this one.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Uantyv* 
This is pretty freaking epic and the guy claims that he played sc1


----------



## Tatakai All

Some screenshots, since there's alot of discussion and hardly and screens.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

I hate the controls for the Lost Viking mini game.

Should've been

Arrows - Movement
Z - Shoot
X - Bomb


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Some screenshots, since there's alot of discussion and hardly and screens.



































I posted over 30 screens since I started posting in this thread but wrapped spoiler tags around them.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I posted over 30 screens since I started posting in this thread but wrapped spoiler tags around them.


Thanks!


----------



## Wishmaker

2nd Campaign and I gotta tell you. I am loving every second of the game








. Different order for my missions, some dialogues I haven't seen because the first time I chose a different path







.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


2nd Campaign and I gotta tell you.


Good thing they managed to sell an unfinished game with only 1/3 of a campaign :/


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Good thing they managed to sell an unfinished game with only 1/3 of a campaign :/



The Star Craft series is not famous for its single player mode. If you want epic Single Player, buy from BioWare. They sold this game with multiplayer in mind. Some like me, try the single player too


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Good thing they managed to sell an unfinished game with only 1/3 of a campaign :/

Clearly you haven't played it if you're making this complaint. I can understand complaints about LAN support, chat channels, cross-realm, etc. but this whining about the campaign being unfinished is just unreal. Were you pissed because SC1 only had half the campaign? How about LOTR for only having a third? Oh, or how about Star Wars, I bet you were really mad about it only having a sixth.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
Clearly you haven't played it if you're making this complaint. I can understand complaints about LAN support, chat channels, cross-realm, etc. but this whining about the campaign being unfinished is just unreal. Were you pissed because SC1 only had half the campaign? How about LOTR for only having a third? Oh, or how about Star Wars, I bet you were really mad about it only having a sixth.

I'd like to add, I've always fully enjoyed Starcraft campaigns. . .

Multiplayer is great too, but I played starcraft for years before I even tocuhed the multiplayer. . . (I was 9 when it was released, give me a break.)


----------



## _02

I think the single player campaign is great. Very detailed and well done (I'm about 50% through).


----------



## Jaeflash

I got SC2 with multiplayer in mind. I started the single player campain just as a way to get my legs under me for a few missions, then went to multiplayer. When I tried going back to single, it was way too slow and boring for me. I doubt I'll ever finish the single player game.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
I think the single player campaign is great. Very detailed and well done (I'm about 50% through).


Pick nova


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Pick nova









Feisty blonds FTW


----------



## bucdan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nlsthzn* 
Feisty blonds FTW

haha yeah, over some jamaican guy haha.

and wasnt this the nova that was supposed to be in sc ghost?


----------



## Wishmaker

Get Tosh early in the game and you will see that he is actually a cool character







.

P.S: I did choose NOVA the first time







.


----------



## _02

I haven't had the choice between them yet.

Tosh hasn't steered me wrong yet, so we shall see.


----------



## Wishmaker

If you talk to Tosh often enough, he will tell you how the game will pan out if you make certain choices. The dude knows whenever you do something without anyone else knowing [phrased it like this so I won't spoil people







], he also knows what your crew is up too [avoided the spoiler again for some] and he gives interesting insight about the Zerg







. If you play the game for the first time, you don't realize this but , this being my second time through the campaign, the guy is not as bad as I thought in the beginning.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
If you talk to Tosh often enough, he will tell you how the game will pan out if you make certain choices. The dude knows whenever you do something without anyone else knowing [phrased it like this so I won't spoil people







], he also knows what your crew is up too [avoided the spoiler again for some] and he gives interesting insight about the Zerg







. If you play the game for the first time, you don't realize this but , this being my second time through the campaign, the guy is not as bad as I thought in the beginning.

I liked Tosh instantly, for some reason. It seems to be opposite of how most people feel. Maybe I just have a thing for Jamaicans.


----------



## xBlitzerx

Loved the SP story and gameplay. Just got my Guide 3 achievement last night


----------



## ReaperMan

Going to new jersey for the weekend.. NO SC 2 til Sunday.. HOW WILL I LIVE!!!! (also on the bus ATM.. Lolz boltbus ftw)


----------



## Wishmaker

I am running the game with uber AA settings in CCC







. It does not look bad actually







. Ultra quality, `16X AA Box method (any other method and the game breaks) and 16X Anisotropic Filtering


----------



## NrGx

@Wishmaker: That was my least favourite mission of the entire game. I only got 2/4 research.


----------



## godofdeath

are there problems with ati cards and sc2?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


are there problems with ati cards and sc2?


Never had any problems with my 5850


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


are there problems with ati cards and sc2?


Not having problems with my 4850.


----------



## nvidiagamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Going to new jersey for the weekend.. NO SC 2 til Sunday.. HOW WILL I LIVE!!!! (also on the bus ATM.. Lolz boltbus ftw)


I'm currently in Rhode Island visiting my family and friends. I'll be here for 2 weeks. I want my Starcraft 2 LOL I seriously just wanna play the game







Oh well, seeing family and friends is just as fun.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


are there problems with ati cards and sc2?


No problems with my 5850.

I think the problems arise with more than 1 GPU.


----------



## wrekt

sweet - me and buddy been playing 1 weekend and got in 2v2 silver league after practice league









not a great accomplishment...but I guess better then bronze??


----------



## chronostorm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer*


I'm currently in Rhode Island visiting my family and friends. I'll be here for 2 weeks. I want my Starcraft 2 LOL I seriously just wanna play the game







Oh well, seeing family and friends is just as fun.


when visiting your friends and family, you should randomly just shout out "MY LIFE FOR AIUR!" and pretend to stab them with your invisible psyblades. Countless hours of fun that's probably as good as starcraft can get


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


@Wishmaker: That was my least favourite mission of the entire game. I only got 2/4 research.



Me too and I did the mission twice. I just realised that one artifact is close to the wall of fire. You can find it in a spot before you clear up the first base. With that you have 3 but I can't find the 4th one








.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

Just saw this on screen in the Hyperion
















YouTube- ‪IPistol in-game StarCraft 2 Advertisement‬‎


----------



## Wishmaker

SC II shows that you can't trust a blonde who can disappear







. I did Tosh's loyalty mission and after a discussion with Ariel ...*sigh* ....


----------



## NrGx

Why would you side with Tosh when you can have a fired up, nuking, disappearing blonde on your side?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


Why would you side with Tosh when you can have a fired up, nuking, disappearing blonde on your side?



I sided with her the first time around because the whole Sean Paul attitude pissed me off when it came to Tosh. My 2nd playthrough, I got him on the ship early and they guy is very cool.

Because NOVA is a liar , Ariel tells you the truth about Spectres after you finish his mission, and Spectres are more powerful : shield, nukes, cloak absorb and that mind thing


----------



## Xealot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Me too and I did the mission twice. I just realised that one artifact is close to the wall of fire. You can find it in a spot before you clear up the first base. With that you have 3 but I can't find the 4th one







.


I "cheated" a bit on that one to find the artifacts. You can save the game and start scouting the map with your banshees. When they die reload and explore a different area. You just have to remember where are the artifacts are after you reload your save each time.


----------



## Zulli85

I cannot connect to B.Net, I get this error when I try to login. Anyone else having problems?

"There is a temporary outage of the Battle.net service. Please try again later."

edit - Nevermind its back up.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Me too and I did the mission twice. I just realised that one artifact is close to the wall of fire. You can find it in a spot before you clear up the first base. With that you have 3 but I can't find the 4th one







.




















Just get one viking and waypoint his way to scout the entire map up until the enemy base. You'll find all 4.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

So i just played my 5 placement matches there after comleting the campaign on hard. Turns out I'm not very good lol, I lost 4 of the 5 matches. Im now in the bronze league.

3 of my matches were played on Metalopolis and I couldnt help going for the floating your command centre to the middle gold reserves each time. That was actually how i won my only victory though







.

I've watched quite a few replays and when im watching them i think, yeah i can try that, but in practice i just cant seem to get things up and running quick enough. I also find it very hard to manage an attack and maintain my base at the same time.

Something to work on though I suppose, hopefully I can win a few bronze games









Matt


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

PFFF
No spoilers...


----------



## xguntherc

Can I uninstall and sell the key i got.. like I bought online over battle.net

or is it linked to my battle.net account forever? no way to sell.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xguntherc*


Can I uninstall and sell the key i got.. like I bought online over battle.net

or is it linked to my battle.net account forever? no way to sell.


pretty sure its linked

which is annoying


----------



## xguntherc

sadness.. Thanks tho


----------



## NrGx

Oh my god, the ending was so amazing. Would play again!

I do have a few qualms:



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Tychus need to be developed better. The end was random; why did he make the deal? When did he make it? And what happens to Mengsk? So much seems to be left untied.


----------



## Wishmaker

I filmed how my FPS are all over the place. As I said in the description of the video, sorry about the quality and this is actually the game running fine. When I get to the final mission again, I will film that too so you lot can see how I have a power point slideshow for the first 40-50 seconds of the game.








YouTube- ‪Star Craft II : CFX HD 4890 XXX Performance‬‎


----------



## kurt1288

Anyone got some ideas where I can find replays of high level (gold/platinum) Zerg players? Or at least some strategy? There doesn't seem to be much that isn't beta.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


Anyone got some ideas where I can find replays of high level (gold/platinum) Zerg players? Or at least some strategy? There doesn't seem to be much that isn't beta.


http://www.teamliquid.net/sc2/

Oh wait those are vods.

Dang

Here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=139013


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


http://www.teamliquid.net/sc2/
Here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=139013


Thanks


----------



## man from atlantis

A little benchmark by myself..

Q9650 @3.6 GHZ
4 GB Ram
9800GT @620 Mhz

a skirmish game against 7 insane bots.. duration: 35 mins


----------



## kurt1288

I have discovered that most people (in my silver league at least) can't/don't seem to stop a 8 pool zergling rush (except another zerg player). Either than or I've played 5 people in a row that haven't stopped it.


----------



## Cretz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xguntherc* 
Can I uninstall and sell the key i got.. like I bought online over battle.net

or is it linked to my battle.net account forever? no way to sell.

Not sure about buying over b.net, but if they emailed you a key and you entered it in the register a product field then its permanently attached to your account.


----------



## NrGx

How do you bring down a battlecruiser when you're protoss? Phoenix and Carriers get owned.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


How do you bring down a battlecruiser when you're protoss? Phoenix and Carriers get owned.


Voidrays are meant to hit flagships.










Phoenix shouldn't do that bad against BCs though... You probably didn't have enough.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


How do you bring down a battlecruiser when you're protoss? Phoenix and Carriers get owned.


Get high templars; use feed back before the battlecruisers can use yamato cannon. Feedback = reduce health of BC by half if the person doesn't use the cannon [the more energy a unit has, the more damage feedback does]. Also blink stalkers w/ sentries can clean up the BC's after the feedback; use guardian shield. Or void rays. But as protoss to bring down BCs, feedback is crucial


----------



## Coma

Phoenixes are anti-Light, like Mutalisks. BCs are Massive Armored. Carriers are meant to sit back while the interceptors do the work because if they die all their interceptors die, so putting Carriers in a situation where they're at the front line is not a good idea.

Whether you go Templars with Stalkers/Sentries or Templars with VRs or just Void Rays depends on if the enemy is going pure BC or if they also have infantry. The gas expenditure on HTs isn't really worth it just for Feedback.

Void Rays are used optimally against units with a lot of health since it allows them time to charge. They have long range, and with the upgrade, they are also fast and that allows for more micro than ground units which must be pretty much under a BC to attack it. For example, you can send all your Void Rays into a BC fleet with an attack move to get them to charge up, and move the leading VR before it dies if you have the upgrade, then turn it around to deal charged damage. Finally, BCs fire fewer projectiles and do less damage per hit against air targets.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Coma*


Phoenixes are anti-Light, like Mutalisks. BCs are Massive Armored. Carriers are meant to sit back while the interceptors do the work because if they die all their interceptors die, so putting Carriers in a situation where they're at the front line is not a good idea.

Whether you go Templars with Stalkers/Sentries or Templars with VRs or just Void Rays depends on if the enemy is going pure BC or if they also have infantry. The gas expenditure on HTs isn't really worth it just for Feedback.

Void Rays are used optimally against units with a lot of health since it allows them time to charge. They have long range, and with the upgrade, they are also fast and that allows for more micro than ground units which must be pretty much under a BC to attack it. For example, you can send all your Void Rays into a BC fleet with an attack move to get them to charge up, and move the leading VR before it dies if you have the upgrade, then turn it around to deal charged damage. Finally, BCs fire fewer projectiles and do less damage per hit against air targets.


if they're massing BC's, chances are they'll likely have alot of minerals in the bank. A good terran player would be complementing those BC's with rines, and the rines will destroy the VRs once they stim. With temps you can feed back, then storm the rines; 2 for 1 and then your stalkers,sentries, and some zealots come in to clean up.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


How do you bring down a battlecruiser when you're protoss? Phoenix and Carriers get owned.


Voids are generally pretty good against BCs since they can charge. High templar feedback also reduces their health by 50%.


----------



## WTHbot

Where do people post there replays for download?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Where do people post there replays for download?


replays in OP


----------



## Jaeflash

Check out youtube, HDStarcraft and Husky have some great replays with commentary. I"m hooked on 'em, and they really teach you the basics. Doing what the pro players do though, is another thing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft
and
http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft

Lots of great matches to keep you busy for hours between games.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


How do you bring down a battlecruiser when you're protoss? Phoenix and Carriers get owned.


Stalkers and high templars. Check out this epic game for some hints:

VOD:







YouTube- ‪TheLittleOne vs Hasu - TvP - Part 1 of 3 - StarCraft 2‬‎
Replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...ails&id=133916


----------



## ryaan

just got it yesterday have been playing the campaign, its fscking awesome how in between missions you choose what to upgrade an there is a pretty good story line. i'll check out online after i get a little more familiar with everything cause i wasnt a part of the beta =\\


----------



## nlsthzn

Just finished the campaign... wow... that was AWESOME... Moar! NOW!







Will be waiting impatiently for the next chapter but in the mean time I must work on my MP skills (or lack thereof)


----------



## wrekt

Aite - so as a terran how do I counter the initial stalker rush? They shred my marines/maur's even when I outnumber them.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrekt* 
Aite - so as a terran how do I counter the initial stalker rush? They shred my marines/maur's even when I outnumber them.

if you can tanks?
or more maurauderS?


----------



## wrekt

Hmm...aite. that cannon upgrade for the maurauders seems to slow them a bit.


----------



## Ajax413

Your marauders are getting beat by stalkers? I believe a marauder beats a stalker one-on-one (could be wrong, but I know it's very close) and it only gets worse for stalkers when the numbers get higher. My advice, concussive shells and more marines/marauders.


----------



## wrekt

Quote:

Your marauders are getting beat by stalkers? I believe a marauder beats a stalker one-on-one (could be wrong, but I know it's very close) and it only gets worse for stalkers when the numbers get higher. My advice, concussive shells and more marines/marauders.
It certainly seems like they're losing 1v1. I'll just try to pump out more ;0


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrekt* 
It certainly seems like they're losing 1v1. I'll just try to pump out more ;0


Nah 1v1 maurauders beat stalkers even with no upgrades. But wih stim and concussive shells its over. Are you using stim? Because you need to get it. Also don't let zealots catch your maurauders. Hit and run with zealots


----------



## Jaeflash

Marauders + stim upgrade. Also, siege tanks in siege mode. You have to be quick though. If I scout stalkers, I've taken to going for a 9refinery 10depot 11barracks 12factory against protoss, and it's doing me well so far. Just scout again while the factory is building, and if they're going stargate, build a starport and pump vikings and marines instead. Four sieged tanks and a bunch of stimmed marauders behind a wall will devastate the rush. Then push back with whatever you have. Usually a quick stalker rush is an all or nothing gambit, and they'll have nothing to defend with. Good luck!


----------



## i_hax

I had a little 6-man LAN party this past weekend. I don't think I can ever play this game seriously again. We won 3 games in a row where the only attack unit I built was marines. Yes, exclusively marines for 3 games. On the last game 3 of us built *only* marines... *and won versus a 4v4 AT team of diamond 1v1 players.*

I was (literally) tired due to laughing from this game. I was crying during part of it. Absolutely funniest thing I've ever seen...


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
I had a little 6-man LAN party this past weekend. I don't think I can ever play this game seriously again. We won 3 games in a row where the only attack unit I built was marines. Yes, exclusively marines for 3 games. On the last game 3 of us built *only* marines... *and won versus a 4v4 AT team of diamond 1v1 players.*

I was (literally) tired due to laughing from this game. I was crying during part of it. Absolutely funniest thing I've ever seen...


Lol team play is completely different than solo play, that's why you won with only rines. Also, people rarely play 4v4, it's probably the least played match up, so I don't know how you can judge a game by that.. Try to hit me up on SC, I doubt you will win with marines


----------



## stan_nel

^did you actually lan it or did you play online?


----------



## wrekt

I've been getting just crushed lately with 2on2's being teamed up on. Changed my build order a bit for rushes, and it's working quite well, except when they just constantly port in stalkers.

I do this:

- 10supply
- 11barracks
- 12refinery
- stick 2 additional svc's on refinery
- 13barracks

start pumping marines out on the 1st finished barracks, once the second one's done building I upgrade it (the c button upgrade, can't remember what it's called, just that it allows 2 marines at once)...while that's upgrading i have the 2nd barracks build marines so i constantly have a supply. Once the first is done I upgrade to tech lab and start pumping mauraders and usually upgrade to a command center. At this point I'm not quite sure if that's the best move...I think it may be a bit early for that? Anyways, after the cc update, I go factory > starport with dual building upgrade and push out two medivacs and ignore the starport for a while.

I've been see'ing other terran players go a second cc at 21...is that pretty early? Suggestions?

And yes - i've been using stimpacks and concussive shell (sp?); upgrading fairly early with those as well. BTW - when would you start upgrading at the engineer bay?


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Lol team play is completely different than solo play, that's why you won with only rines. Also, people rarely play 4v4, it's probably the least played match up, so I don't know how you can judge a game by that.. Try to hit me up on SC, I doubt you will win with marines









Doesn't matter how different it is. I don't care if you'd win vs. mass marines, that's not impressive - Frankly, It'd be sad if you didn't.

They used exactly what anyone would vs. mass marines. High templars, ultralisks, etc... all the correct units. They obviously knew how to play and we should not have won. We played like complete morons expecting nothing but a laugh...


----------



## wrekt

Sigh what a dummy. Zealot rush is killing me, not stalkers! My bad!


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
Doesn't matter how different it is. I don't care if you'd win vs. mass marines, that's not impressive - Frankly, It'd be sad if you didn't.

They used exactly what anyone would vs. mass marines. High templars, ultralisks, etc... all the correct units. They obviously knew how to play and we should not have won. We played like complete morons expecting nothing but a laugh...


Eh you've clearly made up your mind about the game, so I'm no going to even bother arguing.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrekt* 
Sigh what a dummy. Zealot rush is killing me, not stalkers! My bad!

Wall off with big buildings like barracks and factories, if you must use depots, hrow a bunker behind the depot; you can always salvage the bunker later. A good wall off should always hold off a zealot rush, always


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
Doesn't matter how different it is. I don't care if you'd win vs. mass marines, that's not impressive - Frankly, It'd be sad if you didn't.

They used exactly what anyone would vs. mass marines. High templars, ultralisks, etc... all the correct units. They obviously knew how to play and we should not have won. We played like complete morons expecting nothing but a laugh...

Ultralisks are not even being close to countering marines. Maybe they were having a laugh as well. A handfull of banelings would make your army vanish in seconds.


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Eh you've clearly made up your mind about the game, so I'm no going to even bother arguing.

I have. We played with the intention of laughing a lot and losing a game... IIRC They were a diamond 4v4 AT, as well as diamond 1v1 players. They know the mechanics of team games, and really should have won.

To be honest I'm terrible at Starcraft 2. I'm a diamond RT 3v3 player, plat 1v1. I don't know much about the game nor how to play well, I play to have a good time. Our win wasn't impressive, it was ******ed. We didn't deserve it, but it certainly was *fun*.


----------



## Coma

They probably won't be able to get close enough to explode with this many marines though =p


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Ultralisks are not even being close to countering marines. Maybe they were having a laugh as well. A handfull of banelings would make your army vanish in seconds.

I think they tried that. I remember chargelots vaporizing before reaching the marines, so I doubt banelings would fair any better...


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Eh you've clearly made up your mind about the game, so I'm no going to even bother arguing.

Lol, exactly.









He played one group of supposed Diamond League players, and apparently, those 4 are representative of the entire league/all other decent SCII players, since he can no longer "play the game seriously anymore."

I saw no Infestors, no Corruptors/Mutas to take out the Medivacs, no Roaches to compliment the Ultralisks, and more importantly, no back up from any of the other teammates in those above particular photographs.

Also, Marines and Medivacs *=/=* "exclusively Marines". Any decent player knows that any MM combination can be very, very deadly if not correctly countered with a corresponding combination of units at the same time. I could decimate that MM army with just a couple sentries/a Collosus/HT and a few Stalkers or like I said, Roaches with a few Infestors and Mutas.


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
I saw no Infestors, no Corruptors/Mutas to take out the Medivacs, no Roaches to compliment the Ultralisks, and more importantly, no back up from any of the other teammates in those above particular photographs.

They built all of those. I'll give you the replay if you want.

Everything just vaporizes in seconds... we just attack moved and scanned and everything in the path died. 150+ marines was just stupidly effective... even when they are doing only 2dmg per shot to a Ultralisk.


----------



## hermit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
Lol, exactly.









He played one group of supposed Diamond League players, and apparently, those 4 are representative of the entire league/all other decent SCII players, since he can no longer "play the game seriously anymore."

I saw no Infestors, no Corruptors/Mutas to take out the Medivacs, no Roaches to compliment the Ultralisks, and more importantly, no back up from any of the other teammates in those above particular photographs.

Also, Marines and Medivacs *=/=* "exclusively Marines". Any decent player knows that any MM combination can be very, very deadly if not correctly countered with a corresponding combination of units at the same time. I could decimate that MM army with just a couple sentries/a Collosus/HT and a few Stalkers or like I said, Roaches with a few Infestors and Mutas.










i always thought that a marines rush, properly upgraded was pretty badass. not always, but often.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Ultralisks are not even being close to countering marines. Maybe they were having a laugh as well. A handfull of banelings would make your army vanish in seconds.

Have you never used ultras?

A "handful" of banelings wouldn't even reach the marines.

He's just telling a funny story about how he goofed around and won. You guys are just being jerks.


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
They built all of those. I'll give you the replay if you want.

Everything just vaporizes in seconds... we just attack moved and scanned and everything in the path died. 150+ marines was just stupidly effective... even when they are doing only 2dmg per shot to a Ultralisk.

Then they didn't scout, or scout often enough. If you let someone pump out 150 Marines, and you can't defend it, you're doing it WAY wrong. As soon as I know you left your base *by scouting*, I send units (Banshees, Mutas, 2-3 VRs) to take out your mains/scanners/economy.

Depending on what my other teammates are doing, you should all be completely blind by the time you hit anyone but the first person you chose.

Then I go to town with a bunch of cloaked units, and at this point, the possibilities are endless. Hell, cannon walling would take out half that army.

It's obvious these guys weren't very good or were overthinking on a strategy against mass Marines/Medivacs. Much like Rank isn't necessarily indicative of one's overreaching skill in Battlefield, League Placement isn't necessarily indicative of skill or common sense when it comes to SCII.

And we're not being jerks. It's more like it's kind of ridiculous when someone claims that they can't take the game seriously cause they got lucky with a senseless build order. Those Diamond League players obviously sucked; it's not the game mechanics as was subtlely hinted at.


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
He's just telling a funny story about how he goofed around and won. You guys are just being jerks.

Thank you









I just had a good time with some friends, had a few beers and played some games. Half the time I couldn't even play I was laughing so hard. Attack-move and watch the hilarity ensue...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
And we're not being jerks. It's more like it's kind of ridiculous when someone claims that they can't take the game seriously cause they got lucky with a senseless build order.

EDIT: I think we all have a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying I can't take other players seriously, that's far from the truth. I can't take the game seriously anymore because I don't want to play for real. I just want to play like an idiot and laugh hysterically... everyone at the LAN agreed that my stupidity ruined playing SC2 'for real'. Playing 'correctly' is boring now lol


----------



## ReaperMan

Fungal growth anyone?


----------



## Jaeflash

I've blown up thirty marines with four or five siege tanks before. Nothing like watching bloody holes appear in a sea of marines, lol. High ground and siege mode ftw! I'd love to see the replay though of your 4v4 marine rush. Sounds like a good learning experience. Mind posting it somewhere?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaeflash* 
I've blown up thirty marines with four or five siege tanks before. Nothing like watching bloody holes appear in a sea of marines, lol. High ground and siege mode ftw! I'd love to see the replay though of your 4v4 marine rush. Sounds like a good learning experience. Mind posting it somewhere?

This. Want a replay please.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
They built all of those. I'll give you the replay if you want.

Everything just vaporizes in seconds... we just attack moved and scanned and everything in the path died. 150+ marines was just stupidly effective... even when they are doing only 2dmg per shot to a Ultralisk.

I'd really like to see the replay.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Wall off with big buildings like barracks and factories, if you must use depots, hrow a bunker behind the depot; you can always salvage the bunker later. A good wall off should always hold off a zealot rush, always

You don't even have to have a bunker behind depots, just pull a couple of SCVs off the line to repair and no zealots are getting through with a couple of marines/marauders in the back.


----------



## i_hax

Here is the replay. 43 minutes of pure stupidity.

EDIT: Don't expect to see anything even half decent. As I said, stupidity - I expanded before building a barracks.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


You don't even have to have a bunker behind depots, just pull a couple of SCVs off the line to repair and no zealots are getting through with a couple of marines/marauders in the back.


I recommend placing a bunker behind the supply depot against zerg because of banelings


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *i_hax*


Here is the replay. 43 minutes of pure stupidity.

EDIT: Don't expect to see anything even half decent. As I said, stupidity - I expanded before building a barracks.


You might want to join the OCN practice games on the weekends if you want to step up your game


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You might want to join the OCN practice games on the weekends if you want to step up your game

I might join, but only for fun. I don't really care about SC2... maybe some day I will actually learn it, but only after I stop playing UT competitively.


----------



## AntiTalent

Is that a face?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I recommend placing a bunker behind the supply depot against zerg because of banelings


Against Zerg, for sure, it's pretty much a necessity with how common baneling busts are, but against a pure zealot rush, there's no way just zealots will break it with a few SCVs there to repair.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Against Zerg, for sure, it's pretty much a necessity with how common baneling busts are, but against a pure zealot rush, there's no way just zealots will break it with a few SCVs there to repair.


Agreed


----------



## Wishmaker

Some SC II Spam







, my favey protoss ... SELENDIS


----------



## Ajax413

^^ Pshhh, Zeratul's where it's at. Although Selendis is pretty sweet as well


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
Here is the replay. 43 minutes of pure stupidity.

EDIT: Don't expect to see anything even half decent. As I said, stupidity - I expanded before building a barracks.

HAHA! That was hilarious to watch.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
^^ Pshhh, Zeratul's where it's at. Although Selendis is pretty sweet as well









Zera*TOOL* you mean


----------



## wrekt

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD
I recommend placing a bunker behind the supply depot against zerg because of banelings

Against Zerg, for sure, it's pretty much a necessity with how common baneling busts are, but against a pure zealot rush, there's no way just zealots will break it with a few SCVs there to repair.
__________________
So just more mauraders/marines then?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Zera*TOOL* you mean









Nova's where it's at.


----------



## kcuestag

Those screenshots look great.

Atm I am playing the game on a laptop, so sadly I can only play it on Low to Medium settings.

I can't wait to go back home and play it on highest settings and 1080p res.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
Nova's where it's at.


Shame NOVA is not what one thinks


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Shame NOVA is not what one thinks
















What do you mean?










Edit: she _does_ need to smile, at least.


----------



## kurt1288

What? No love for Kerrigan?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Zera*TOOL* you mean









You did not just go there.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


You did not just go there.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


What? No love for Kerrigan?


Which one?

This one?










or this one?










I like this one:








?


----------



## Playapplepie

Has anyone played with the map editor yet?


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


Which one?

This one?

or this one?

I like this one:


Both, all...The cinematic in the game sure makes you feel bad for Kerrigan (good Kerrigan).


----------



## i_hax

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


HAHA! That was hilarious to watch.


...and it was 10 times more funny to play in







glad someone enjoyed it.


----------



## xAPOCALYPSEx

Hey, I'm a starting protoss player. (never played sc1, still in the practice bracket) I think I have developed a pretty good strategy, but whenever I face terran, the marauders always bring my gateway units down to their knees.

How can I stop that? Usually they are paired w/ a group of marines, so void rays don't do much. Should I try to tech up fast and get a carrier/ dark templar? Or should I try to get a few immortals out quickly to take care of them?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xAPOCALYPSEx*


Hey, I'm a starting protoss player. (never played sc1, still in the practice bracket) I think I have developed a pretty good strategy, but whenever I face terran, the marauders always bring my gateway units down to their knees.

How can I stop that? Usually they are paired w/ a group of marines, so void rays don't do much. Should I try to tech up fast and get a carrier/ dark templar? Or should I try to get a few immortals out quickly to take care of them?


Immortals help tons, colosi are the ultimate anti terran bio for toss if the terran just keeps massing up those bio units. Early on immortals are nice to deal with maurauders, or zealots with charge.


----------



## Zulli85

Psionic Assault challenge gold sup. took me ****ing forever. Anyone else got it?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zulli85*


Psionic Assault challenge gold sup. took me ****ing forever. Anyone else got it?


Yep, got it a couple of days ago. Freaking hard as crap. The only one I don't have is Opening Gambit, and I don't have it because I was off by 2 seconds on my first try and was so frustrated I gave up.









I'll have to go back and get it sometime.


----------



## kilrbe3

"Thorr is here!"

btw,

requesting this pic in 1920x1080 or higher


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Yep, got it a couple of days ago. Freaking hard as crap. The only one I don't have is Opening Gambit, and I don't have it because I was off by 2 seconds on my first try and was so frustrated I gave up.









I'll have to go back and get it sometime.


Yeah. All of the other ones are easy in comparison, Gambit is really easy actually. Just expand right after the first wave.

Btw I got a Spec portrait just now because I got all gold on the challenges sup.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kilrbe3*


"Thorr is here!"

btw,

requesting this pic in 1920x1080 or higher










I just googled Kerrigan to get that, but I have fraps, so I can grab a screenie when I get home from class, if you like.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zulli85*


Yeah. All of the other ones are easy in comparison, Gambit is really easy actually. Just expand right after the first wave.

Btw I got a Spec portrait just now because I got all gold on the challenges sup.


Ya, that's what I've been doing. Getting an orbital out quick and then FEing with tanks to defend. Just tried again and was 4 seconds off. Last ghost popped with 3:56 left on the clock. You don't want to know what words were said.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kilrbe3*


requesting this pic in 1920x1080 or higher


Here you are.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Sorry for double post.

















































































































































I have slightly different versions of all these with the the film-esque black bars across the top and bottom. Let me know if you want those.


----------



## ThumperSD

Just curious Thrawn, how many fps are you getting with your 3x GTX480 SLI?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Just curious Thrawn, how many fps are you getting with your 3x GTX480 SLI?


Capped at 120. Depends on the situation, but anywhere from 40 to 120, everything on Ultra. Usually in the 80-100 range.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


What? No love for Kerrigan?


Not really. The Queen of Blades is cooler and more interesting. Barbie is not my style









Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


What do you mean?










Edit: she _does_ need to smile, at least.



Do the "loyalty mission for Tosh", go to the Lab and talk to Ariel. She will tell you all about the Spectres and this will show what kind of person NOVA is


----------



## NrGx

This thread has now had Kerrigan pictures galore and now this is the most awesome page in this thread forever.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


This thread has now had Kerrigan pictures galore and now this is the most awesome page in this thread forever.



If you did not check the spoiler tags in this thread of course you will say that this thread has no Kerrigan pics







. I posted quite a few pics a while back. Used spoilers so people won't end up ... spoiled







. There you go, Barbie in action


----------



## ryaan

when i press print screen and then try to paste in paint or photoshop i just get a full black screen shot... =[ ***

edit nvm figured out on my own


----------



## hermit

so, when i'm done with the campain, how do i get back to a specific mission? i don't understand how. i looked all night and didn't find anything.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermit* 
so, when i'm done with the campain, how do i get back to a specific mission? i don't understand how. i looked all night and didn't find anything.


Run the game, click single player then choose : continue or load then on the right hand side you have VS AI , CHallenge, etc.


----------



## hermit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Run the game, click single player then choose : continue or load then on the right hand side you have VS AI , CHallenge, etc.

this allow me to do the challenge or play 1v1 against the computer, not allowing me to replay the zombie mission for example.

if i click continue campain (the only thing i haven't tried) do i get back to the briefing room with the mission log?


----------



## Luminouslight

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermit* 
this allow me to do the challenge or play 1v1 against the computer, not allowing me to replay the zombie mission for example.

if i click continue campain (the only thing i haven't tried) do i get back to the briefing room with the mission log?

Just the mission archives, no briefing room or anything else.


----------



## hermit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Luminouslight* 
Just the mission archives, no briefing room or anything else.


good enough for me. i'll try tonight

thanks


----------



## col musstard

does anyone else have issues with the mouse cursor getting weird when playing this game and after playing?

it looks like my cursor duplicates itself and partially covers itself, hard to explain


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


Sorry for double post.

















































































































































I have slightly different versions of all these with the the film-esque black bars across the top and bottom. Let me know if you want those.


BTW, feel free to use any of these and modify them any way you choose. It's not like I can claim ownership.


----------



## kurt1288

Admiral, what did you use to capture the screenshots?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Fraps, then photshopped the black bars out.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:



Originally Posted by *col musstard*


does anyone else have issues with the mouse cursor getting weird when playing this game and after playing?

it looks like my cursor duplicates itself and partially covers itself, hard to explain


I got that about 5 times so far and dont know a fix.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


Fraps, then photshopped the black bars out.


Ok, thanks. Was about to ask about the bars as well


----------



## thiru

Argg I'm getting the ATI mouse pointer corruption when I alt tab Starcraft, it's pissing me off









Is there a way to make it go away short of restarting? like manually restarting the graphical drivers or something?


----------



## col musstard

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Argg I'm getting the ATI mouse pointer corruption when I alt tab Starcraft, it's pissing me off









Is there a way to make it go away short of restarting? like manually restarting the graphical drivers or something?

I've just been restarting everytime but today it went away on its own, confusing


----------



## AblueXKRS

I've got a number of other BIG screenies that could be used as desktops or something... Should I start a new thread for those so that they're all in the same place?


----------



## Wishmaker

Fresh from the bakery


----------



## Wishmaker

Delete. Minefield went crazy







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


Admiral, what did you use to capture the screenshots?


fyi you can also hit the print screen button and it will save the screenshot in your SC2 folder in my documents


----------



## ryaan

heres a few. i actually just got done beating the campaign, here some from the last few cinematics 
research tree:








others









































SPOILER
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6...0081015034.jpg


----------



## GYBE

Fraps or XFire are good programs for screenshots.


----------



## AblueXKRS

ryaan, can you spoiler that last one please? It's a bit of a story spoiler!


----------



## ryaan

fixt. whoops.

also, why use other programs for SS when u can just press it and it goes into a folder for ya??


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ryaan*


fixt. whoops.

also, why use other programs for SS when u can just press it and it goes into a folder for ya??


Didn't know about it till yesterday.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

^Ultra spoilers...



Spoiler: Speed Run I made on A Sinister Turn



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhEZHRLYj2k


----------



## hermit

seriously guys, who cares about screenshots from the cutscenes? i want to see shots from the actual game, when you do your zerg rush, or have 12 Battlecruisers and invading the enemy base.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecchi-BANZAII!!!* 
^Ultra spoilers...



Spoiler: Speed Run I made on A Sinister Turn



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhEZHRLYj2k




Speed running on casual? really? It doesn't have the same effect when your enemies are drooling on the floor.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermit* 
seriously guys, who cares about screenshots from the cutscenes? i want to see shots from the actual game, when you do your zerg rush, or have 12 Battlecruisers and invading the enemy base.

Or a friggin nuke







I want to see more 2v2s with mothership vortex on an enemy army, with a nuke, that's just sweet.


----------



## ryaan

hermph


----------



## Wishmaker

I just got a new record







. In the last Zeratul mission, I managed to kill 5500 enemies







. God my hands hurt from uber clicking and quick shortcuts in restoring defenses. I managed to bring out 3 mother ships from two Nexi but you can't bring them all at once







. You need to wait for one to die to bring the next







.

That mission is very difficult on normal, I don't even want to think how one needs to play on Brutal or Hardcore







.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I have discovered a con!

You know the in-game Kerrigan portrait, which you get for beating the campaign on brutal?

It's just Nova with red hair.










please note that Kerrigan and Nova have very distinct hair styles... You can check Kerrigan's on page 62.

And 63.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
I have discovered a con!

You know the in-game Kerrigan portrait, which you get for beating the campaign on brutal?

It's just Nova with red hair.










please note that Kerrigan and Nova have very distinct hair styles... You can check Kerrigan's on page 62.

*** Ghosts playing mind games with us!! It can't be that blizzard just got lazy! [stupid blizzard = (!]


----------



## Ajax413

My PvZ is horrible now







I don't know what happened. It used to be my best matchup and now it's all gone to crap. Stupid mutalisks/hydralisks/zerglings. Any diamond zerg looking for a practice partner? I could really use one.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I have a strange question... When you're watching a replay, does the game display ALL of the chat, regardless of who you're watching? I played a game with another OCN member today, and I'm watching the game from the perspective of the guy who beat us, but I can still see all the chatting my ally and I did.

Is this normal?


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
I have a strange question... When you're watching a replay, does the game display ALL of the chat, regardless of who you're watching? I played a game with another OCN member today, and I'm watching the game from the perspective of the guy who beat us, but I can still see all the chatting my ally and I did.

Is this normal?

It only displays the chat from the perspective of the player who recorded the replay. You will see chat to all from the enemy, but not their private chat.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i_hax* 
It only displays the chat from the perspective of the player who recorded the replay. You will see chat to all from the enemy, but not their private chat.

Cool, thanks. We were wondering if he had been hacking, so I was pretty confused.

(he wasn't, btw, he was just really lucky with placing his units)


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


My PvZ is horrible now








I don't know what happened. It used to be my best matchup and now it's all gone to crap. Stupid mutalisks/hydralisks/zerglings. Any diamond zerg looking for a practice partner? I could really use one.


I usually go single stargate phoenixes into high templars against zerg and actually can't remember loosing a single PvZ since the release. Phoenixes are just so awesome against Zerg it's almost unfair.

I'm not sure how's my ZvP, probably haven't played enough games. We can try to get some practice on Sunday.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


Speed running on casual? really? It doesn't have the same effect when your enemies are drooling on the floor.


That's not the point here.
I started doing this map as a speed run since I saw other doing the same and they ran on casual so I had to run it on casual as well.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I usually go single stargate phoenixes into high templars against zerg and actually can't remember loosing a single PvZ since the release. Phoenixes are just so awesome against Zerg it's almost unfair.

I'm not sure how's my ZvP, probably haven't played enough games. We can try to get some practice on Sunday.


Yeah, I've been experimenting with Phoenixes but I don't think I'm good enough with them yet. I can't practice Sunday, though, I'll be moving into my dorm


----------



## floodx

I have a question about the leagues, so rather than make a new thread, I thought I'd try here first. My question is:

Does anyone know how league advancement works?

I was sitting pretty at rank #3 in bronze for about a week, then I log in one day after work and I've been promoted to rank #2. Since I didn't play any games inbetween, I'm guessing someone ahead of me got promoted to silver? But how?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *floodx*


I have a question about the leagues, so rather than make a new thread, I thought I'd try here first. My question is:

Does anyone know how league advancement works?

I was sitting pretty at rank #3 in bronze for about a week, then I log in one day after work and I've been promoted to rank #2. Since I didn't play any games inbetween, I'm guessing someone ahead of me got promoted to silver? But how?


Either someone ahead got promoted or the lost a few games and fell behind you in the ranks. It's very common to move in place when you haven't been playing games for a while.


----------



## AblueXKRS

One of my favorite missions:










Also, playing a game with another member... things were going kinda slow, so I manged to build this fleet:


----------



## The Mad Mule

Just a heads up; it seems that in the NA region at least Blizzard has disabled the achievements "until further notice." The SCII boards are lit up with a bunch of threads bearing the same topic.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule* 
Just a heads up; it seems that in the NA region at least Blizzard has disabled the achievements "until further notice." The SCII boards are lit up with a bunch of threads bearing the same topic.









That's odd. I wonder what happened that would cause them to shut it down. Oh well, achievements are nice and all, but I couldn't care less about whether they're up or not. Just make sure Battle.net doesn't go down and me and Blizzard are square.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Any explanation from Blizzard?


----------



## Wishmaker

Showing The Dominion who the boss is


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
That's odd. I wonder what happened that would cause them to shut it down. Oh well, achievements are nice and all, but I couldn't care less about whether they're up or not. Just make sure Battle.net doesn't go down and me and Blizzard are square.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
Any explanation from Blizzard?

Well a Blizzard post a few minutes ago said that the achievements are back up, but nothing in detail as to why they took them down. Most people speculate it was to fix a few exploits and bugs.


----------



## floodx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
Either someone ahead got promoted or the lost a few games and fell behind you in the ranks. It's very common to move in place when you haven't been playing games for a while.

I understand how I would have changed ranks within the bronze league. What I'm curious about is how one goes about advancing to a different league (ie bronze->silver). There must be some sort of criteria you must meet after reaching 1st place in your current league.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *floodx* 
I understand how I would have changed ranks within the bronze league. What I'm curious about is how one goes about advancing to a different league (ie bronze->silver). There must be some sort of criteria you must meet after reaching 1st place in your current league.

Oh, my mistake, misread your post









To be honest, I don't think anyone's quite figured out the ladder yet. People get promoted after losing and some other weird stuff goes on. I didn't realize you meant you got promoted in leagues after not playing. I've never heard of anything like that before.


----------



## ryaan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Showing The Dominion who the boss is


























how to GPU overlay? fps is ctrl+alt f right, but what is this :O


----------



## trivium nate

its evga precision on screen display


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


I just got a new record







. In the last Zeratul mission, I managed to kill 5500 enemies







. God my hands hurt from uber clicking and quick shortcuts in restoring defenses. I managed to bring out 3 mother ships from two Nexi but you can't bring them all at once







. You need to wait for one to die to bring the next







.

That mission is very difficult on normal, I don't even want to think how one needs to play on Brutal or Hardcore







.


Is there any way to get a robotics bay in that mission on Hard difficulty? If there is, I'm not seeing it.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is there any way to get a robotics bay in that mission on Hard difficulty? If there is, I'm not seeing it.












You can't just build one? I could just build one.


----------



## cory1234

Ajax 2v2s?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Ajax 2v2s?


Add me, Ajax:054

I'll probably be on a little later tonight, if you want to do some 2s.

EDIT: Woah, apparently my ID number changed. It's now 534. That's odd.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 









You can't just build one? I could just build one.









No, on hard difficulty you don't have that option initially. I did some googling and read that you get access to better units over time. I'm guessing the robotics bay becomes available later. I'll play the mission tomorrow and see.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


No, on hard difficulty you don't have that option initially. I did some googling and read that you get access to better units over time. I'm guessing the robotics bay becomes available later. I'll play the mission tomorrow and see.


I just tried on hard and could build one right from the start. I took a screenshot, but I have no idea where it saved to.

I know this might sound bad, but you are going to the advanced buildings menu, right? It just seems odd that only one building would be locked out from building.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


I just tried on hard and could build one right from the start. I took a screenshot, but I have no idea where it saved to.

I know this might sound bad, but you are going to the advanced buildings menu, right? It just seems odd that only one building would be locked out from building.


You're right. I didn't notice there are two buttons to choose from depending on which building you want to build. I'm too set in my ways from all the Warcraft 3 I've played. Sometimes that bites me in the ass.


----------



## AblueXKRS

WHO WANTS TO SEE A REPLAY WITH LOTS OF NUKES!?

I played some 2v2 games with a friend today... this was our last team league placement match.

Download the replay here

Here are some screenies of the match: (ALL ARE 800x450)

If you would like to see all these screenshots in 1920x1080, let me know, I'll .rar them and upload them somewhere.

Getting started:










---

Building up the base. I was tired of serious gaming, so I decided I wanted to mass Marines, see how tha twould do. 7

minutes in and I have 3 raxs with reactors.










---

First Ghost Academy up!










---

First new CC is moving out. Medvacs on teh way.










---

Mmm... I need a tech lab for ghots. So here it is.










---

First expansion. 11 minutes in.










---

Here we go...










---

INNNNNNNCOOMIIIIIIIING!










---

POW! Right in the kissesr.










---

*insert nuclear explosion sound*










---

They're all dead.










---

two more Academies for MOAR NEWKS.










---

This was the entirety of mt force. 5 Medvacs and about 30 marines. They could have raped me without a thought.










---

Once again into the breach! Two ghosts this time.










---

Better get rid of that turret off to the side. The supply depots will be a nice bonus.










---

Except that the first NEWK took those depots out, sooo...










---

At least I got that turret.










---

WE'VE BEEN SPOTTED! RUUUUUUUUUN!










---

We got a man down! And A NEWK ON EEZ WAAAAY!










---

The tanks beat a hasty retreat.










---

...2...1...










---

KERPLOW!










---

FOOOOOOOOOOM










---

They want another nuke? A'RIGH'THEN!










---

NEEEEEEOOOOOWWWW!










---

BOOM!


----------



## AblueXKRS

KABLAMMO!










---

Another? Again? As you wish, master!










---

SheeeeeeeeOOOWWWWW










---

OHSI-










---

Had enough?










---

Look! An angel in the explosion!










---

Let's have just one moooore...










---

ARGH! WE'RE NOT READY TO DIIIEE----










---

My ally exacts revenge for the death of my operatives.










---

...and moves on to clean up the terran enemy.










---

My forces at this point: 8 Medvacs and 49 marines, max upgraded.










---

Moving in on the Protoss base.










---

NEWCLEAR LAWNCH DEETEKTED!










---

They haven't seen me yet...










---

They're coming for me!










---

Back off! Those blades hurt!










---

Almost there! HALF A SECOND!










---

*dies*










---

Let's try this again.










---
Still haven't seen me...










---

They saw me! Too little, too late.










---

And thus ends his entire army.










---

Oops. They found me anyways.










---

My ally moves into to take advantage of the now relatively-ungaurded door.










---

And there they go.










---

Just sitting back and watching.










---

It's over.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Both posts cleaned up, all dupe images changed properly.


----------



## thiru

lol those guys were bad... if you've got a nuke incoming, just move troops and scvs if you don't know where it's landing.


----------



## AblueXKRS

It was still lots of fun.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *trivium nate*


its evga precision on screen display



I did not know that does it too but this is what I use :


----------



## Ajax413

Is it wrong that I want to play Terran just to nuke somebody?

It feels wrong.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Is it wrong that I want to play Terran just to nuke somebody?

It feels wrong.



Why does it feel wrong? It is just a game and how is that worse than the Protoss Mothership "Hoover" in the colonist mission?


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Why does it feel wrong? It is just a game and how is that worse than the Protoss Mothership "Hoover" in the colonist mission?

















Just a joke, my friend. Nothing wrong with it just want to nuke somebody, and wanted to give Terrans a hard time, too.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Just a joke, my friend. Nothing wrong with it just want to nuke somebody, and wanted to give Terrans a hard time, too.



Shame the max nuke number is 4







. In campaign I built 10 Shadow Ops buildings hoping to get 10 nukes but nope







. I take 4 spectres, send them in all four Zerg bases and Nuke them!!!!! Set them of FIIIIIREEEE!!!!














Afterwards, I attack them with 40 wraith + 20 Banshes and they are pushing daisies!!


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Shame the max nuke number is 4







. In campaign I built 10 Shadow Ops buildings hoping to get 10 nukes but nope







. I take 4 spectres, send them in all four Zerg bases and Nuke them!!!!! Set them of FIIIIIREEEE!!!!














Afterwards, I attack them with 40 wraith + 20 Banshes and they are pushing daisies!!










Haha, man it sounds like you would love the challenge with the ghosts and ravens. You get like 8 ghosts with 8 nukes and a few ravens and you just try to kill as many units as possible. If you haven't checked out the challenged yet, definitely try that one out.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


Haha, man it sounds like you would love the challenge with the ghosts and ravens. You get like 8 ghosts with 8 nukes and a few ravens and you just try to kill as many units as possible. If you haven't checked out the challenged yet, definitely try that one out.



I will do that, cheers, did not do the challenges yet because I want to finish the game a few times on different difficulty settings to get the feel of the game









I want a Protoss campaign!!!!!


----------



## kurt1288

Since w're talking about nukes, I played a game against a terran guy who build 3 barracks and just pumped out ghosts. His nuking my expansion base was annoying, until I made an overseer, killed his ghosts and went into his base. He had nothing but a few ghosts. Quite a dumb way to play really.


----------



## Zulli85

Prepare yourselves for the zombie apocalypse. (2nd half of the vid is the best)








YouTube- AC130K - Ruins (Starcraft 2 zombie shooter map)


----------



## Confessed

Considering buying this game but I have no idea if I'd really get into it. I know with SC1 I certainly did. I mainly played custom fun games though.

I need someone to convince me =/


----------



## hermit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zulli85* 
Prepare yourselves for the zombie apocalypse. (2nd half of the vid is the best)

YouTube- AC130K - Ruins (Starcraft 2 zombie shooter map)

what the heck is that, where can i get it.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermit* 
what the heck is that, where can i get it.


I take you can find it on the Internet*z*


----------



## AblueXKRS

Anyone else here use more than two or three nukes in a single game? Anyone use nukes at all? I'm wondering how often they get to see any action.


----------



## Wishmaker

I use more Nukes than marines in campaign mode


----------



## AblueXKRS

I used them about 8 times for the first time in a game last night. It was soooo much fun, I'm gonna try to redo all the campaign missions where it's an option.


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermit* 
what the heck is that, where can i get it.

Dunno, just found the video. Google is your friend.


----------



## michintom

YouTube- Starcraft 2 Lag/Stuttering







YouTube- StarCraft2 Lag/Out of Sync Bug?Anyone have this issue?
I'm using the rig on my signature and this lag/stutter is driving me crazy


----------



## xAPOCALYPSEx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *michintom*


YouTube- Starcraft 2 Lag/Stuttering
YouTube- StarCraft2 Lag/Out of Sync Bug?
Anyone have this issue?
I'm using the rig on my signature and this lag/stutter is driving me crazy










I don't have that, but I do have random crashes to desktop...

And that video at the top of the page is completely epic


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michintom* 
YouTube- Starcraft 2 Lag/Stuttering
YouTube- StarCraft2 Lag/Out of Sync Bug?
Anyone have this issue?
I'm using the rig on my signature and this lag/stutter is driving me crazy










I have that and worse in a few missions but the final mission is the worst!!!! I can't play at all the first 40-50 seconds and I've tried with my [email protected], graphic cards running at over 1000 core and over 1100 memory.


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

yay got the game add me

losthubble


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky* 
yay got the game add me

losthubble

Can't add you without your character code. IIRC if you just hover your mouse above your portrait it will display it.


----------



## Tatakai All

Do I even need to mention that I won this match?







Seriously though, guess how long it took me just to find out that 33 is the most Battle Cruisers you can have total?


----------



## nlsthzn

Only 33... :/


----------



## listen to remix

The Starcraft 2 Zombie Shooter Map looks like it could be a WHOLE different game. SICK! I wonder they'll have to revise all the previous video card benchmarks for SCII.


----------



## repo_man

Am finally to the "All In" last mission and I'm getting pounded. I destroyed the air base so I'm having to deal with the Nydus worms. Any tips? I tried building multiple bunkers/perdition turrets at the left and right side of the base with psi-disruptors and seige tanks on the high ground but I just got overrun.

No spoilers please.







I've managed to get this far without reading or hearing about the ending, lol!


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *repo_man*


Am finally to the "All In" last mission and I'm getting pounded. I destroyed the air base so I'm having to deal with the Nydus worms. Any tips? I tried building multiple bunkers/perdition turrets at the left and right side of the base with psi-disruptors and seige tanks on the high ground but I just got overrun.

No spoilers please.







I've managed to get this far without reading or hearing about the ending, lol!


I got ALOT of Battle Cruisers to yamato gun Kerrigan. I put four bunkers in front of each entrance. I upgraded the BCs all the way. That's all I needed to win. I forgot if I played that one on normal or hard.


----------



## Oktoberfest

ok so the best way to deal with the nydus worm version is with proper siege tank placement. I don't know if you use mercenaries or not but the idea is to put a TON of siege tanks in the area where the mercenary compound is (you will probably want to destroy the merc compound to get more tanks in there). All your tanks should be on the LOW ground hugging the cliff.

For dealing with Kerrigan, I believe she has hardened shields, so each shot to her shields does only 10 damage. So obviously units like tanks and banshees are bad versus her. The best unit against her would be marines due to their high rate of fire. So get mass marines and a few medics to deal with Kerrigan.

So in conclusion: tanks (in siege mode) on the low ground hugging the cliff of the high ground where the artifact is. These tanks kill all the ground units. Then use marines to deal with Kerrigan. If you're not going for the achievement, use the energy nova whenever Kerrigan appears so your marines don't have to deal with any other ground units.

This strategy actually works on Brutal difficulty with not much trouble


----------



## Coma

Nah, I don't think she has hardened shields, just a lot of armor. About 15 BCs Yamatoing her on Hard got her to 1/4 HP or so.


----------



## Shiggins

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oktoberfest* 
ok so the best way to deal with the nydus worm version is with proper siege tank placement. I don't know if you use mercenaries or not but the idea is to put a TON of siege tanks in the area where the mercenary compound is (you will probably want to destroy the merc compound to get more tanks in there). All your tanks should be on the LOW ground hugging the cliff.


^Agree except save your merc compound. The emergency backup it provides is so nice. I actually used banshees to counter the worms that pop up outside the base. The second they surface send 3-4 cloaked to the nydus worms and let them take them down. Requires a little more micro but allows you to hit the far off worms fast. Don't think the worms ever got off more than their first wave.

With nothing in the air to worry them, the banshees last forever (Unless you get careless with hydras around). They can also respond fast if an area is getting hit hard.


----------



## ZainyAntics

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
Do I even need to mention that I won this match?







Seriously though, guess how long it took me just to find out that 33 is the most Battle Cruisers you can have total?



















I don't think that's a real game... you only have a CC.


----------



## benyu

lying with 55k minerals and one command center....damn you must of had 30 gold mineral patches! /sarcasm


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *repo_man* 
Am finally to the "All In" last mission and I'm getting pounded. I destroyed the air base so I'm having to deal with the Nydus worms. Any tips? I tried building multiple bunkers/perdition turrets at the left and right side of the base with psi-disruptors and seige tanks on the high ground but I just got overrun.

No spoilers please.







I've managed to get this far without reading or hearing about the ending, lol!

Which difficulty are you on? I was on Medium I think.

I suppose you chose to take out the "Air Colony"?

Personally, I built, on each side:

3 bunkers, with the extra 2 Marine slot unlock. Use Marauders for their range over the Perdition turrets.
8-10 Perdition Turrets (Being sure to replace them constantly, they are often the first to be attacked).
4 siege tanks
2 Thors
2 SCVs (Keep them there, they are nearly always busy. Make sure you put Auto-repair on)

In the base, I found it sufficient to have 1 bunker near the merc compound.

The secret, for me, was Banshees. Build **** loads. 15 or so at least, and train Cloak. AS SOON as a Nydus Canal pops up, send your Banshees (Cloaked) on a waypoint to take them out one after another (Micro this so you can focus on your base).

They will be out there often, and will run out of energy after a while, but they barely get attacked anyway. A Canal takes seconds to take down, and any Zerg troops are nearly always moving to your base, so nothing to shoot them, as long as you aren't attacking the Zerg troops.

As for Kerrigen. I used my Banshees too. However, time it perfectly, so you attack her with your mass of banshees, just as she comes into range of your left and right defence walls. So she will kill the first banshee, whilst everything else obliterates her within 5 seconds.

I prefer not to let her get close, as she nearly always killed a Thor straight off with her lift power. A sacrificed Banshee is a better trade.

There's some videos on You Tube as well if you want me to link...


----------



## trivium nate

beat the game yesterday,

cheated on last 3 missions cuz that mission where you get the last artifact i had no resources left to gather and my battle cruisers that i was using to destroy the generator things kept getting destroyed,

i was using disable the supply limit code and like 5,000 gases and minerals codes i had zillions of soldiers,
3 factory's were popping out goliaths,2 star ports were busting out wraiths and battle cruisers all over the place and 2 barracks were popping out troops and medics man i have like 800 out of the supposed to be 200 units available i had nydusk worms? popping out in all directions i shoulda take a screen shot


----------



## repo_man

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
Which difficulty are you on? I was on Medium I think.

I suppose you chose to take out the "Air Colony"?

Personally, I built, on each side:

3 bunkers, with the extra 2 Marine slot unlock. Use Marauders for their range over the Perdition turrets.
8-10 Perdition Turrets (Being sure to replace them constantly, they are often the first to be attacked).
4 siege tanks
2 Thors
2 SCVs (Keep them there, they are nearly always busy. Make sure you put Auto-repair on)

In the base, I found it sufficient to have 1 bunker near the merc compound.

The secret, for me, was Banshees. Build **** loads. 15 or so at least, and train Cloak. AS SOON as a Nydus Canal pops up, send your Banshees (Cloaked) on a waypoint to take them out one after another (Micro this so you can focus on your base).

They will be out there often, and will run out of energy after a while, but they barely get attacked anyway. A Canal takes seconds to take down, and any Zerg troops are nearly always moving to your base, so nothing to shoot them, as long as you aren't attacking the Zerg troops.

As for Kerrigen. I used my Banshees too. However, time it perfectly, so you attack her with your mass of banshees, just as she comes into range of your left and right defence walls. So she will kill the first banshee, whilst everything else obliterates her within 5 seconds.

I prefer not to let her get close, as she nearly always killed a Thor straight off with her lift power. A sacrificed Banshee is a better trade.

There's some videos on You Tube as well if you want me to link...

+rep. And yea, any links would be great! Thanks bro.


----------



## JTD92

Hey guys, Reaperman and I are going to run the Overclock.net Starcraft 2 Tournament.

You can sign up here if you are interested


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTD92* 
Hey guys, Reaperman and I are going to run the Overclock.net Starcraft 2 Tournament.

You can sign up here if you are interested

What kind of ranking are u looking for in that form? 1v1? 2v2? blah blah? lol. A little more specific would be nice

BTW, how long is the maintenance for battle.net


----------



## JTD92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora1607* 
What kind of ranking are u looking for in that form? 1v1? 2v2? blah blah? lol. A little more specific would be nice

BTW, how long is the maintenance for battle.net

Refer to this thread: http://www.overclock.net/organize-ga...ournament.html

It will be 1 v 1 and the tournament is open for anyone to join.

EDIT: Come on guys we need 2 more people for the tournament! Maybe an additional 3 players for backup.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Guys, I just bought this game two days ago, so to practice before going into the practice league, I've been playing custom games against medium AI. Also, there's supposedly an achievement you can earn if you win custom solo melee games as a certain race against a medium AI. So I've been playing Zerg and I've beaten the medium AI at least twice now. However, I look at the achievement track, and it still says 0/10...what's up with that?

Oh wait, nvm...I figured it out. You're supposed to create the custom game through multiplayer, not single player.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *repo_man* 
+rep. And yea, any links would be great! Thanks bro.









The final mission is really quite simple but requires a little bit of multitasking. Get about 10-15 banshees and they can take out the Nydus worms with ease. To help with Kerrigan, I built siege tanks all around my base with bunker blocks (so she'd destroy them first). Lastly, use your mercenaries! They are very useful. Do that and it's easy mode.

Good luck


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
The final mission is really quite simple but requires a little bit of multitasking. Get about 10-15 banshees and they can take out the Nydus worms with ease. To help with Kerrigan, I built siege tanks all around my base with bunker blocks (so she'd destroy them first). Lastly, use your mercenaries! They are very useful. Do that and it's easy mode.

Good luck









Not not attempt the final mission on brutal if you took out the nydus worms and not the air.... the air just *** pawns you so hard -.- brood lords are damn hard to kill even with 40 vikings on patrol


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *repo_man* 
+rep. And yea, any links would be great! Thanks bro.









Good luck!

I can't remember the exact video I used. However, this is your search term:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...arcraft+2&aq=f

Select ones relevant to the path you chose. Ie, If Nydus Canals appear on the video, that's the one you want to take note of.

As a matter of fact. I found a video after my first failure, because I was overwhelmed massively. To the point where I thought, "What the F". As I mentioned in my guide, I had being going horribly wrong by not destroying the canals. They spew out an almost limitless amount of Zerg if left undestroyed.

Lastly, make sure he mentions he's on at LEAST Medium. Better if it's higher, because then you know you're using advanced techniques, which are sure to win.

Pretty much, I already described the needed techniques, taken from someone playing on Hard.


----------



## Dom_sufc

What level can you guys beat the Skirmish AI at?

I started at the one below Medium (Not sure if it's labelled as easy), and got pasted to begin with. However, I've watched loads of replays, and tried so eco sabotage on a medium.

I play Terran.

Basically, built up my main force (to attack early, no hording), but in the mean time, I took a 2-4 maruaders(game time depending) in a medi-vac , to sneak around to ambush the workers. Especially so, when I saw their main force incoming (xel naga towers). This caused them to come straight back, giving me about 30 seconds of destruction.

I did this about 5 times and I was able to continue building up my tech to steamroll.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ReaperMan* 
Not not attempt the final mission on brutal if you took out the nydus worms and not the air.... the air just *** pawns you so hard -.- brood lords are damn hard to kill even with 40 vikings on patrol









Control them manually then. Shift-queue the Brood Lords then shift-click to the artifact.


----------



## sora1607

Anybody getting low fps in this game with the new patch? My usually smoothness of 60 fps has been dipping down to ~40 and ~30 ever since the patch came around.... I don't know why.......


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


Anybody getting low fps in this game with the new patch? My usually smoothness of 60 fps has been dipping down to ~40 and ~30 ever since the patch came around.... I don't know why.......


I had the game crash (had to hard reboot) since this patch. Not sure if it was a coincidence, but it hasn't happened in the many many hours of playing prior.

I've always thought that the matchmaking system does a pretty good job at keeping win/loss around 50% and matching you up with good opponents. But today I came across a situation that really blew. My friends and I were doing 4v4, in which we're ranking Bronze. We've been winning probably 75-80% of the games. Today, all of our losses came to teams that were doing their placement matches for 4v4, but were comprised of players being ranked in Platinum/Diamond leagues and usually hundreds of played games. That blew. Bronze league team, playing people who should have been ranked wayyy above us.


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kurt1288* 
I had the game crash (had to hard reboot) since this patch. Not sure if it was a coincidence, but it hasn't happened in the many many hours of playing prior.

I've always thought that the matchmaking system does a pretty good job at keeping win/loss around 50% and matching you up with good opponents. But today I came across a situation that really blew. My friends and I were doing 4v4, in which we're ranking Bronze. We've been winning probably 75-80% of the games. Today, all of our losses came to teams that were doing their placement matches for 4v4, but were comprised of players being ranked in Platinum/Diamond leagues and usually hundreds of played games. That blew. Bronze league team, playing people who should have been ranked wayyy above us.


Do you experience lag in game? Not internet lag but game lag. I don't see how it's possible with my setup to have the game lag on me but it does happen and it's really annoying the crap out of me. In intense matches I get down to like 30 fps. That should not be happening with my 480 SLI.... I have tried disabling and enabling SLI and I get the same result either ways


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


Do you experience lag in game? Not internet lag but game lag. I don't see how it's possible with my setup to have the game lag on me but it does happen and it's really annoying the crap out of me. In intense matches I get down to like 30 fps. That should not be happening with my 480 SLI.... I have tried disabling and enabling SLI and I get the same result either ways


Nope, no lag problems. The only time I've ever experienced any lag was with a mothership cloaking a ton of units. (I am talking about game lag and not internet lag).

You are talking about 30fps though. I don't know what my game runs at (I'm running on Ultra settings) so I can't really give you anything for comparison. But 30fps, is that really that bad?


----------



## sora1607

It wouldn't be bad if you play on it as regular. But if you play on it as 60 then it dips down, it is very glaringly obvious and is very annoying. I should not be getting anything lower than 60 though with my setup. That's why I don't understand what's going on lol


----------



## kcuestag

You guys might wanna check this epic battle







:








YouTube- HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia p4/4
Don't bother with the parts 1, 2, or 3, just this link is the one worth it, awesome move from the other player at the end


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Yeh dude i watched that replay last night, it was epic. The final move caught me by surprise, really thought the other guy had it.









Matt


----------



## Thedark1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kcuestag*


You guys might wanna check this epic battle







:

YouTube- HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia p4/4

Don't bother with the parts 1, 2, or 3, just this link is the one worth it, awesome move from the other player at the end

























THat was a nice move at the end.


----------



## hermit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kcuestag*


You guys might wanna check this epic battle







:

YouTube- HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia p4/4

Don't bother with the parts 1, 2, or 3, just this link is the one worth it, awesome move from the other player at the end










that was epic and weird at the same time.

i enjoyed part 1-2-3 because it set up the last part.

but, i thought the zerg had no money left. how much does it cost to built an vespene gas thingy for the zergs.


----------



## kurt1288

25 minerals for the extractor.

That was an awesome game.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Finished my qualifiers for 1v1 and got into gold league somehow. Figured I was bronze or something


----------



## thiru

You'll know soon enough whether you should be in gold. Took me 2 days to go from bronze to silver.


----------



## Jaeflash

Beginning to wonder if I'll ever get bumped up. I'm sitting at 778 points and 6th place, and in the last week I've won 3/4 of my games. First place in my division has over 900 points. First place in every other division I've looked at is in the 500-600 point range. The top 10 have been in the top 10 for nearly two weeks now. Anyone else seem to be stuck like this?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaeflash* 
Beginning to wonder if I'll ever get bumped up. I'm sitting at 778 points and 6th place, and in the last week I've won 3/4 of my games. First place in my division has over 900 points. First place in every other division I've looked at is in the 500-600 point range. The top 10 have been in the top 10 for nearly two weeks now. Anyone else seem to be stuck like this?

The thing is that promotion system is based on your hidden match making rating (MMR) and doesn't have that much to do with your position in the division or your points. You have an equal chance to be promoted from 60th and from 1st posidion in your division and it can happen even after you've lost the game. You'll get promoted if you win enough matches against stronger opponents (with higher MMR, not necessarily higher league or rank) and don't loose any to weaker ones.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thedark1337* 














THat was a nice move at the end.

OH MAN that was good haha


----------



## aroc91

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcuestag* 
You guys might wanna check this epic battle







:

YouTube- HD Starcraft 2 TT1 v MasterAsia p4/4

Don't bother with the parts 1, 2, or 3, just this link is the one worth it, awesome move from the other player at the end









I hate that narrator.

"I am literally laughing SO hard right now"

"This is just gonna take lightyears. Literally"









Nevermind that lightyears measures distance...









Edit: His little lisp really got to me too.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
Haha, man it sounds like you would love the challenge with the ghosts and ravens. You get like 8 ghosts with 8 nukes and a few ravens and you just try to kill as many units as possible. If you haven't checked out the challenged yet, definitely try that one out.

I could never get gold =/ any tips?


----------



## jbrown

Matchmaking is broke. I placed in silver, started out doing bad. I then got better, and have won 17 out of my last 18 game. (16 in a row) and it's still putting me against BRONZE players that have less than 5 wins sometimes. A couple silvers. I should atleast be playing silvers/golds. ****ing lame.


----------



## thiru

Read 4 posts above yours.


----------



## jbrown

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Read 4 posts above yours.

I read that before I posted. Obviously that is not working for me. 15 wins in a row(nearly 100 total) and it had me playing BRONZE players that had less than 10 games total and I am a SILVER player.


----------



## thiru

Maybe it's making sure you don't belong in bronze.


----------



## Twistacles

If you have near a 100 games and you're still in silver, then you can't blame the matchmaking system.


----------



## jbrown

I started out ****ty, but like I said I won over 17 games in a row.

The **** is broke.


----------



## jbrown

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
If you have near a 100 games and you're still in silver, then you can't blame the matchmaking system.

and that's 100 wins.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

There is a league thing you click on in your profile that tells you where you are on the list. I assume once you are on the top you move up to the next level.


----------



## ReaperMan

yah, you usually have to be ranked in the top 10 of your division before you get bumped up to the next league; and even then you have to win alot of games.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You'll know soon enough whether you should be in gold. Took me 2 days to go from bronze to silver.


I am super amazing









I only play like 1 or 2 games a day. I'll probably end up losing it if you can from inactivity.


----------



## repo_man

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


The final mission is really quite simple but requires a little bit of multitasking. Get about 10-15 banshees and they can take out the Nydus worms with ease. To help with Kerrigan, I built siege tanks all around my base with bunker blocks (so she'd destroy them first). Lastly, use your mercenaries! They are very useful. Do that and it's easy mode.

Good luck











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


Good luck!

I can't remember the exact video I used. However, this is your search term:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...arcraft+2&aq=f

Select ones relevant to the path you chose. Ie, If Nydus Canals appear on the video, that's the one you want to take note of.

As a matter of fact. I found a video after my first failure, because I was overwhelmed massively. To the point where I thought, "What the F". As I mentioned in my guide, I had being going horribly wrong by not destroying the canals. They spew out an almost limitless amount of Zerg if left undestroyed.

Lastly, make sure he mentions he's on at LEAST Medium. Better if it's higher, because then you know you're using advanced techniques, which are sure to win.

Pretty much, I already described the needed techniques, taken from someone playing on Hard.


Thanks for all the help and tips. Finally had a chance to replay the final mission and beat it without much hassle at all with these tips. You guys rock. Overall I'm happy with the ending. Can't wait for the next installment.


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:


Originally Posted by *listen to remix* 
I could never get gold =/ any tips?

I didn't even worry about the ravens really. HSM isn't effective enough to really do much damage. At the start, find all the locations where there are big clumps of units. I know there's two to either side of your spawn location and then a couple with a bunch of drones. Send one ghost to each of these locations and then start raining death. You just have to know where the detectors are and then you should be good.


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aroc91*


I hate that narrator.

"I am literally laughing SO hard right now"

"This is just gonna take lightyears. Literally"









Nevermind that lightyears measures distance...









Edit: His little lisp really got to me too.


Wow that takes a true nerd to get pissed at the incorrect use of lightyears


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


I didn't even worry about the ravens really. HSM isn't effective enough to really do much damage. At the start, find all the locations where there are big clumps of units. I know there's two to either side of your spawn location and then a couple with a bunch of drones. Send one ghost to each of these locations and then start raining death. You just have to know where the detectors are and then you should be good.


I finally got gold before by going towards the right and nuking my way to the top base.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


I didn't even worry about the ravens really. HSM isn't effective enough to really do much damage. At the start, find all the locations where there are big clumps of units. I know there's two to either side of your spawn location and then a couple with a bunch of drones. Send one ghost to each of these locations and then start raining death. You just have to know where the detectors are and then you should be good.


I always try to get HSM when it comes to late game. It's great even if it is really slow. Especially if you're going heavy ground and have tons of tanks. I just launch a few Hunter Seeker Missiles and its always a win win. Either the person doesn't micro their army away and gets a good amount of damage done to them; Or they move back and I can inch forward my tanks.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *repo_man* 
Thanks for all the help and tips. Finally had a chance to replay the final mission and beat it without much hassle at all with these tips. You guys rock. Overall I'm happy with the ending. Can't wait for the next installment.









Good to hear!

--

What Game Speed do you guys play at?


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
Good to hear!

--

What Game Speed do you guys play at?

Faster and I assume most other people do also.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


Faster and I assume most other people do also.


Oh right... I've been playing normal. Not sure I'd be able to cope with Faster


----------



## thiru

Aren't league games on faster?


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Aren't league games on faster?


yes


----------



## Dom_sufc

Oh right... I suck alot more than I thought then lol.


----------



## JTD92

We need 2 more person for SC2 Tournament!

Sign up here:
http://www.overclock.net/organize-ga...ournament.html


----------



## kurt1288

I'm at a lost, and I'm very frustrated here. Playing as Zerg, once a terran player manages to block himself in, *** am I supposed to do? I've tried banelings for the inevitable MM(M), which has kind of worked, but not with total success. If the terran player is decent, then just build seige tanks which destroy the banelings. All their marines murder mutas if I try that, and hydras just can't see to keep up with the production of MM(M).

This isn't just a "how to counter MMM". It's more than that; how to get into their base once their make it a fortress.


----------



## Nhb93

How many losses does it take to get moved down a division? I really need to get out of Gold for 2v2.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


I'm at a lost, and I'm very frustrated here. Playing as Zerg, once a terran player manages to block himself in, *** am I supposed to do? I've tried banelings for the inevitable MM(M), which has kind of worked, but not with total success. If the terran player is decent, then just build seige tanks which destroy the banelings. All their marines murder mutas if I try that, and hydras just can't see to keep up with the production of MM(M).

This isn't just a "how to counter MMM". It's more than that; how to get into their base once their make it a fortress.


I'd say that you normally don't want to get into their base and instead contain them there. If you're going ling/muta use your mutas to harass, find weak spots in their defense and buildings to snipe, try to deny expansions etc. At the same time you should take map control and expand as much as possible. Once you're on 3+ expansions tech up to ultralisks and later broodlors with some infestors mixed in. If he has lots of infantry make sure to get some banelings. I guess that's the basic idea for ZvT.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


I'm at a lost, and I'm very frustrated here. Playing as Zerg, once a terran player manages to block himself in, *** am I supposed to do? I've tried banelings for the inevitable MM(M), which has kind of worked, but not with total success. If the terran player is decent, then just build seige tanks which destroy the banelings. All their marines murder mutas if I try that, and hydras just can't see to keep up with the production of MM(M).

This isn't just a "how to counter MMM". It's more than that; how to get into their base once their make it a fortress.


There are several ways to deal with a turtling terran. First of all, you can try the baneling bust at the very start.This involves pumping out baneings at the start and breaking down the terran front door [BEFORE THE TERRAN CAN TECH TO SEIGE TANKS!]. After the door is down, run in with speed lings straight to the SCVs.This is risky though, since good terran players will scout this and bulk up their door.

What you can do is just out macro them. Let them turtle. Just keep expanding and teching. To deal with their raids. A combo of speed lings for the maurauders and banelings for the marines should work -- maybe throw in some roaches. Once you get mutas, don't fight the ball directly. Go in around the edges of the terran's base and pick off SCVs, supply depots, tech buildings ect. If he has expasions, those will all be easier to pick off. Again, don't fight units head on with your mutas.. marines will stim will kill them

As you approach the mid game, get hydras - they will absolutely demolish mauraders. Along with the hydras, throw in some speed lings/banelings. Once you hit late game, you can either go for brood lords which just kill MMM or Ultralisks. Whichever you want, both are good. I would say broodlords w/ a few corrupters to kill vikings.

The Terran MMM is hard to counter, but its not impossible. If the terran is turtling, you should have map control and expand like crazy anyways.


----------



## Dom_sufc

What's MMM? Terran Strategy name or something?


----------



## dakpyro525

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


There are several ways to deal with a turtling terran. First of all, you can try the baneling bust at the very start.This involves pumping out baneings at the start and breaking down the terran front door [BEFORE THE TERRAN CAN TECH TO SEIGE TANKS!]. After the door is down, run in with speed lings straight to the SCVs.This is risky though, since good terran players will scout this and bulk up their door.

What you can do is just out macro them. Let them turtle. Just keep expanding and teching. To deal with their raids. A combo of speed lings for the maurauders and banelings for the marines should work -- maybe throw in some roaches. Once you get mutas, don't fight the ball directly. Go in around the edges of the terran's base and pick off SCVs, supply depots, tech buildings ect. If he has expasions, those will all be easier to pick off. Again, don't fight units head on with your mutas.. marines will stim will kill them

As you approach the mid game, get hydras - they will absolutely demolish mauraders. Along with the hydras, throw in some speed lings/banelings. Once you hit late game, you can either go for brood lords which just kill MMM or Ultralisks. Whichever you want, both are good. I would say broodlords w/ a few corrupters to kill vikings.

The Terran MMM is hard to counter, but its not impossible. If the terran is turtling, you should have map control and expand like crazy anyways.


MMMBall is one of the easiest things to counter for protoss.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


What's MMM? Terran Strategy name or something?


MMMball stands for Marine/Marauder/Medic


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dakpyro525*


MMMBall is one of the easiest things to counter for protoss.

MMMball stands for Marine/Marauder/Medic


Uhh no its actually not. If the terran attacks early, storm won't be out yet. And storms are not that difficult the avoid using stim. If you get colosi, you can always just stim your mauraurders in to snipe the colosi and run back. Don't know how many terran you've played against, but they're doing MMM wrong... MMM does require some micro.... That said, its not impossible to counter, but its definitely not easy if done right.

Also, he was talking about zerg, not toss; and as zerg, its a very hard combo to deal with.


----------



## Oktoberfest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Uhh no its actually not. If the terran attacks early, storm won't be out yet. And storms are not that difficult the avoid using stim. If you get colosi, you can always just stim your mauraurders in to snipe the colosi and run back. Don't know how many terran you've played against, but they're doing MMM wrong... MMM does require some micro.... That said, its not impossible to counter, but its definitely not easy if done right.

Also, he was talking about zerg, not toss; and as zerg, its a very hard combo to deal with.


it's much easier to deal with as zerg (mutalisk/baneling/zergling can destroy it pretty easily). Protoss has trouble because marauders pretty much own all the gateway units.


----------



## kurt1288

It's really funny to see what people do when they rage quit. I've had numerous people swear at me. Had one guy say "it sucks to lose to a player as ****ty as you". Unfortunately, he left before I could respond.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kurt1288* 
It's really funny to see what people do when they rage quit. I've had numerous people swear at me. Had one guy say "it sucks to lose to a player as ****ty as you". Unfortunately, he left before I could respond.

Give it a few months. Most people like that quit once the novelty runs out. SCII isn't a game like MW2 where even the worst of players can get lucky and go on "pro" killing streaks so most of those immature brats should quit by the time they actually need to work to get good.










I hate the medivac AI. They always end up running ahead and getting slaughtered, a lot like the medics in SCI, except now its even worse since medivacs can fly and move faster.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 

I hate the medivac AI. They always end up running ahead and getting slaughtered, a lot like the medics in SCI, except now its even worse since medivacs can fly and move faster.










You're doing it wrong. Hot key your group of attacking units to whatever hot keys you'd like. Tell all of your medivacs to follow using the "A" key on a marauder for example ( higher HP the better, since if he dies they might no longer follow ).

Funny because during beta I even caught a Blue poster not knowing they could do this.

Also there is no such thing as a good Terran using just MMM or MM in TvP. MMG + M baby.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You're doing it wrong. Hot key your group of attacking units to whatever hot keys you'd like. Tell all of your medivacs to follow using the "A" key on a marauder for example ( higher HP the better, since if he dies they might no longer follow ).

Funny because during beta I even caught a Blue poster not knowing they could do this.

Also there is no such thing as a good Terran using just MMM or MM in TvP. MMG + M baby.

Yes, ghosts are a must in TvP


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You're doing it wrong. Hot key your group of attacking units to whatever hot keys you'd like. Tell all of your medivacs to follow using the "A" key on a marauder for example ( higher HP the better, since if he dies they might no longer follow ).

Funny because during beta I even caught a Blue poster not knowing they could do this.

Also there is no such thing as a good Terran using just MMM or MM in TvP. MMG + M baby.

But its so annoying having to redo that everytime the unit you told them to follow dies.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know, when that unit dies, assuming you're moving forward, they automatically follow the group because they are still in the process of healing. That is why I said to do the units with more HP..

but personally I rarely have a problem with my medivacs being behind or in front.


----------



## sorrowfool

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
Oh right... I've been playing normal. Not sure I'd be able to cope with Faster









After a day on Faster, everything else seems ridiculously slow. You get used to it really quickly.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'd kill myself of boredom on Normal... ***!?!?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kurt1288* 
It's really funny to see what people do when they rage quit. I've had numerous people swear at me. Had one guy say "it sucks to lose to a player as ****ty as you". Unfortunately, he left before I could respond.

Sounds like me, only I don't cuss ppl out as I quit. I do get really frustrated because
it's just that crystal clear as to how that other player is just that much better then me and I can't do anything about it, but tuck tail and run. Man I wish I was better at this game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Give it a few months. Most people like that quit once the novelty runs out.

Hopefully I don't become one of those sad statistics.


----------



## nlsthzn

The jump from normal to faster caught me very off guard... I was still happy frolicking in my base with a few marines when I got hit by a Zerg tsunami... luckily it was over swiftly...


----------



## Wishmaker

My life for Aiur







.

Any news on the part of this game?


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Sounds like me, only I don't cuss ppl out as I quit. I do get really frustrated because
it's just that crystal clear as to how that other player is just that much better then me and I can't do anything about it, but tuck tail and run. Man I wish I was better at this game.


You have to turn that frustration into motivation.

You don't get better by quitting. You get better by taking your licks and practicing, making it a point not to get frustrated at a loss, but to capitalize on it and make sure you don't lose to the strategy again.

There is more to learn from losing than there is from winning.


----------



## Thedark1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


My life for Aiur







.

Any news on the part of this game?


well Heart of the Swarm is currently being developed and then when that is done the Protoss will be last with Legacy of the Void


----------



## slickwilly

I am currently placing the A.I. trying to improve my economics, seems that by the time 
I have four marines and a couple marauders the opponent attacks with 4 marines and 6 
marauders, no bodies waiting for a full scale war with battle cruisers and ghosts

I have played 1 round against a human opponent and was promptly beaten, I finished the round and reviewed the tape to see what the other player was doing that I was not, one thing was a making better use of the SCV's


----------



## Tufelhunden

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


you have to turn that frustration into motivation.

You don't get better by quitting. You get better by taking your licks and practicing, making it a point not to get frustrated at a loss, but to capitalize on it and make sure you don't lose to the strategy again.

There is more to learn from losing than there is from winning.


qft!


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thedark1337*


well Heart of the Swarm is currently being developed and then when that is done the Protoss will be last with Legacy of the Void



Gotcha. 2015 then


----------



## Dr1T

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Gotcha. 2015 then

















from what I heard (don't know if it's true or not) they will take approximately 18 mouths for developing ich expansion. So it should be in 2012. But we never can have sure of nothing with Blizzard


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'm curious how you guys fight Kerrigan in the last mission on planet Char. I finished the mission on hard difficulty but I never did find a really good method of stopping her. Eventually I decided to minimize the economic damage by hitting her with a lot of cheap units like Hellions and bunkered marines on stimpack. The perdition flame turrets do decent damage to her, but those are more expensive. Sacrificing banshees to her was pretty annoying. The spectre's psi attack didn't seem to work.


----------



## repo_man

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I'm curious how you guys fight Kerrigan in the last mission on planet Char. I finished the mission on hard difficulty but I never did find a really good method of stopping her. Eventually I decided to minimize the economic damage by hitting her with a lot of cheap units like Hellions and bunkered marines on stimpack. The perdition flame turrets do decent damage to her, but those are more expensive. Sacrificing banshees to her was pretty annoying. The spectre's psi attack didn't seem to work.


From some pages back I got the following suggestion which worked for me. I put 3-4 siege tanks (in siege mode) on the low ground behind the bunkers and 2 tanks up on the high ground. As kerrigan approaches intercept her with a fleet of banshees. She'll usually focus on one or two of them while the rest of the banshees and the siege tanks pound her. Worked pretty well for me.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *repo_man*


From some pages back I got the following suggestion which worked for me. I put 3-4 siege tanks (in siege mode) on the low ground behind the bunkers and 2 tanks up on the high ground. As kerrigan approaches intercept her with a fleet of banshees. She'll usually focus on one or two of them while the rest of the banshees and the siege tanks pound her. Worked pretty well for me.










Yeah I forgot to mention the siege tanks. They have to be behind the bunkers firing at long range. If you let her get close to them she destroys them very quickly. I also try to sneak in one shot from the Yamato cannon and then quickly withdraw. Battlecruisers are too expensive to leave upfront because Kerrigan can destroy them instantly. I also like to have the science vessels try to irradiate her. They only cost 100 minerals so it's a not big sacrifice to lose one.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I'm curious how you guys fight Kerrigan in the last mission on planet Char. I finished the mission on hard difficulty but I never did find a really good method of stopping her. Eventually I decided to minimize the economic damage by hitting her with a lot of cheap units like Hellions and bunkered marines on stimpack. The perdition flame turrets do decent damage to her, but those are more expensive. Sacrificing banshees to her was pretty annoying. The spectre's psi attack didn't seem to work.


I posted this to help RepoMan, although I only played Medium, so take what you like from it. Below is the question and my response:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *repo_man*


Am finally to the "All In" last mission and I'm getting pounded. I destroyed the air base so I'm having to deal with the Nydus worms. Any tips? I tried building multiple bunkers/perdition turrets at the left and right side of the base with psi-disruptors and seige tanks on the high ground but I just got overrun.

No spoilers please.







I've managed to get this far without reading or hearing about the ending, lol!



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


Which difficulty are you on? I was on Medium I think.

I suppose you chose to take out the "Air Colony"?

Personally, I built, on each side:

3 bunkers, with the extra 2 Marine slot unlock. Use Marauders for their range over the Perdition turrets.
8-10 Perdition Turrets (Being sure to replace them constantly, they are often the first to be attacked).
4 siege tanks
2 Thors
2 SCVs (Keep them there, they are nearly always busy. Make sure you put Auto-repair on)

In the base, I found it sufficient to have 1 bunker near the merc compound.

The secret, for me, was Banshees. Build **** loads. 15 or so at least, and train Cloak. AS SOON as a Nydus Canal pops up, send your Banshees (Cloaked) on a waypoint to take them out one after another (Micro this so you can focus on your base).

They will be out there often, and will run out of energy after a while, but they barely get attacked anyway. A Canal takes seconds to take down, and any Zerg troops are nearly always moving to your base, so nothing to shoot them, as long as you aren't attacking the Zerg troops.

As for Kerrigen. I used my Banshees too. However, time it perfectly, so you attack her with your mass of banshees, just as she comes into range of your left and right defence walls. So she will kill the first banshee, whilst everything else obliterates her within 5 seconds.

I prefer not to let her get close, as she nearly always killed a Thor straight off with her lift power. A sacrificed Banshee is a better trade.

There's some videos on You Tube as well if you want me to link...


----------



## sora1607

I built a couple of bunkers. Siege up some tanks. When Kerrigan approaches, I just use battlecruisers and blast her with yamato cannons. Should be able to hit at least 3 or 4 yamato cannons before she turns to the BC's to attack. Meanwhile, tanks can do massive damage. I guess this is on the expensive side of the strategy but I never had problem with money even on hard difficulty so I think this can be pulled off.


----------



## col musstard

slightly strange thing i found in starcraft 2, oh you funny blizzard employees


----------



## Dom_sufc

What am I meant to be looking at?

Edit: oooooh


----------



## Tchernobyl

**** me, fighting against terran as zerg is so incredibly frustrating >.< Successful baneling bust of his wall, send in zerglings to wreck his economy (about half his svcs die before his marines/maurauders kill them all)... i hold back and try to transition to lair tech, but by the time i have anything decent, he comes waltzing in with MMM ball plus siege tanks.

It's so incredibly annoying that the baneling, without or WITH the speed boost, get quasi nullified by the maurauder low cost concussion grenade upgrade. Banelings can't even *reach* the MMM ball, unless you have so many banelings that you likely spent twice as much gas on them as he did on maurauders....

As for the last mission on Char... it depends on your research tech, honestly.

Did you choose the mind control tower? Destroy the nydus canals, then use the towers at all points (i built a good dozen of them) to take over as many air units as you can. I must have mind controlled 60 mutalisks and 10+ broodlords on my Hard playthrough.

Did you choose the movement/attack speed reduction tower? Take the mission to destroy the flying zerg unit hive, then in the last mission, defend your base with bunkers, excessive numbers of siege tanks (i had 10 to a side behind the bunkers) and those Towers a bit everywhere to slow things down. Keep some banshees or so moving around to kill the nydus canals both in your base and outside.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
**** me, fighting against terran as zerg is so incredibly frustrating >.< Successful baneling bust of his wall, send in zerglings to wreck his economy (about half his svcs die before his marines/maurauders kill them all)... i hold back and try to transition to lair tech, but by the time i have anything decent, he comes waltzing in with MMM ball plus siege tanks.

It's so incredibly annoying that the baneling, without or WITH the speed boost, get quasi nullified by the maurauder low cost concussion grenade upgrade. Banelings can't even *reach* the MMM ball, unless you have so many banelings that you likely spent twice as much gas on them as he did on maurauders....


What about researching Burrow? Then your Banelings can explode from underground. I think you have to manually tell them to, though. Only useful for defence of course.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
What about researching Burrow? Then your Banelings can explode from underground. I think you have to manually tell them to, though. Only useful for defence of course.

Wow they can do that?

meh try fighting against MM's as Protoss. I haven't been able to tech to colossus fast enough so far... if the terran's macro is at my level or better I basically lose if he goes MM's.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
What about researching Burrow? Then your Banelings can explode from underground. I think you have to manually tell them to, though. Only useful for defence of course.

I know about this, and honestly, it only works once. It won't work the second time as they will have detectors. Plus at that point of the game I'm looking into other things... lair tier gives so many different tech that you don't really know what to focus on.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wow they can do that?
.

The Burrow upgrade enables a player to hide his Banelings and have them act as a trap. When the opponent runs over your Banelings, detonate while burrowed to wipe out entire groups by surprise.










Source

First bullet point under the Description.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
The Burrow upgrade enables a player to hide his Banelings and have them act as a trap. When the opponent runs over your Banelings, detonate while burrowed to wipe out entire groups by surprise.










Source

First bullet point under the Description.

Thankfully that's never happened to me yet...

Dom post here


----------



## Mark the Bold

Anybody know of some good 2v2 or 3v3 Starcraft Battle Report vids out there? From my numerous youtube / google searches, all the "Pro" / "Platinum" team battles comprise of a bunch of tards having their asses handed to them single handedly by some dude named David Lee.

Are there any skilled teams out there capable of beating this guy? Or even offering him a challenge? Just curious. I'm not the guys agent or anything but damn he's good.


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
**** me, fighting against terran as zerg is so incredibly frustrating >.< Successful baneling bust of his wall, send in zerglings to wreck his economy (about half his svcs die before his marines/maurauders kill them all)... i hold back and try to transition to lair tech, but by the time i have anything decent, he comes waltzing in with MMM ball plus siege tanks.

It's so incredibly annoying that the baneling, without or WITH the speed boost, get quasi nullified by the maurauder low cost concussion grenade upgrade. Banelings can't even *reach* the MMM ball, unless you have so many banelings that you likely spent twice as much gas on them as he did on maurauders....

There's a lot of imbalance currently present in TvZ matchups. This has been shown time and again in pro-level play. Zerg just simply lack the unit variation/composition to matchup with a walled-in Terran, who can deny scouting/most rushes (while scouting freely with his scan), while the Zerg player cannot wall-in.

There's also very little a Zerg player can do versus MMM balls, because the hard counter for those ground forces in Ultralisks likely won't be reached in time by the Zerg player, who's going to be forced to go ling + Muta and still most likely lose, since Terrans can transition to Vikings almost instantaneously.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
meh try fighting against MM's as Protoss. I haven't been able to tech to colossus fast enough so far... if the terran's macro is at my level or better I basically lose if he goes MM's.

I am a Protoss player and generally I have no problem successfully fending off *early* MMM balls _*that try to rush.*_ I try to let the Terran player waltz in my base, deny the ramp entrance via constant Sentry shields while having a wall of DTs OUTSIDE my base, picking off as many units as they can and pulling back as the Terran continues to waste scans. I engage when I have the number superiority.

However, engaging an MMM ball in a head-to-head battle is a much, much more difficult situation for the Protoss player. For one, in order to properly counter this, we need pretty much the entire tech tree in play. That's ridiculous in itself, nevermind the cost of anything past Tier 1 units, let alone how much our structures cost compared to what the Terran player needs for Marine/Marauders (a Barracks with Tech Lab, lol). A Terran player can still romp even if he decided against getting Medivacs.

A typical Protoss ground force encounter against an MMM ball requires the Protoss player to have Sentries using Force Field/Guardian Shield constantly during the battle, microing Collosi out of target or focus fire range, microing High Templars trying to use PsiStorm, making sure the Zealots are in front tanking damage and micro-ing what few Stalkers are in the combination with Blink for a decent surround.

Nevermind that we'll actually be vastly outnumbered, since it costs a RAPE amount of resources (particularly gas, which Protoss rely on for everything outside of Zealots) just to be able to tech to Collosi or High Templars, the structures it costs for their NECESSARY upgrades, and the upgrades themselves! And all that requires intimate micro during battle, just to counter Terran Tier 1 units. It's pretty ridiculous, especially since all the Terran player has to do is spam A-click and hit "t" once in a blue moon for Stim.

Terrans right now just have too good of a defensive opening (being able to wall-in completely without the need for units to plug holes), too good early harass tactics (Hellion/Reaper rushes, lings are prevented by wall-in and Protoss have no early harass, and if we see Reapers we have to try and go fast Stalkers or commit to a Forge), the ability to deny scouting completely until the enemy techs up to Lair/Robotics Facility just to have observers while the Terran player is able to freely scan (leaving the Z/P behind in economy as the Terran player can commit those resources to additional Marines/Marauders or hold back and use the scan intel for appropriate counters) and then of course, Terran has a Tier 1 unit composition that is countered by Z/P units that either cost too much to match the Terran player in numbers or the hard counters require too much time/resources to tech to and won't be reached in time before MMM comes knocking at the door.

If you're a Zerg or Protoss player, the imbalances are fairly simple to see with regard to Terran. Pro players know this and some of the top Terran players in the world have said that Terran might be a little imbalanced right now. 91/200 of the top players in the ladder right now are Terran. There's simply TOO MANY things that Terrans are good at, and their Tier 1/1.5 unit composition requires MUCH more micro/macro/teching-up on the Z/P side JUST TO COUNTER!!! (Marauders, i am talking to you and your stupid 100min./25 gas cost that hard counters my Stalkers 125min./50gas cost and nullifies my Zealots with concussive shot!)

Ok, enough. Hopefully it won't be for naught as I stick it out with Protoss until the eventual Terran nerf comes.


----------



## Epona

I don't see how this new patch is going to do anything... =\\

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Epona* 
I don't see how this new patch is going to do anything... =\\

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221

The ultralisk change is somewhat confusing (the removal of ram makes sense, more normal CLEAVING attack = more buildings and units being hit... however, damage reduction, ***?)... but the siege tank nerf is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. It doesn't one shot zerglings if they have any armor (though a +dmg upgrade to tanks nullifies all armor on zerglings) and will hurt hydras even less. Roaches still get hit hard but they had plenty of HP in the first place.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
I am a Protoss player and generally I have no problem successfully fending off *early* MMM balls _*that try to rush.*_ I try to let the Terran player waltz in my base, deny the ramp entrance via constant Sentry shields while having a wall of DTs OUTSIDE my base, picking off as many units as they can and pulling back as the Terran continues to waste scans. I engage when I have the number superiority.

However, engaging an MMM ball in a head-to-head battle is a much, much more difficult situation for the Protoss player. For one, in order to properly counter this, we need pretty much the entire tech tree in play. That's ridiculous in itself, nevermind the cost of anything past Tier 1 units, let alone how much our structures cost compared to what the Terran player needs for Marine/Marauders (a Barracks with Tech Lab, lol). A Terran player can still romp even if he decided against getting Medivacs.

A typical Protoss ground force encounter against an MMM ball requires the Protoss player to have Sentries using Force Field/Guardian Shield constantly during the battle, microing Collosi out of target or focus fire range, microing High Templars trying to use PsiStorm, making sure the Zealots are in front tanking damage and micro-ing what few Stalkers are in the combination with Blink for a decent surround.

Nevermind that we'll actually be vastly outnumbered, since it costs a RAPE amount of resources (particularly gas, which Protoss rely on for everything outside of Zealots) just to be able to tech to Collosi or High Templars, the structures it costs for their NECESSARY upgrades, and the upgrades themselves! And all that requires intimate micro during battle, just to counter Terran Tier 1 units. It's pretty ridiculous, especially since all the Terran player has to do is spam A-click and hit "t" once in a blue moon for Stim.

Terrans right now just have too good of a defensive opening (being able to wall-in completely without the need for units to plug holes), too good early harass tactics (Hellion/Reaper rushes, lings are prevented by wall-in and Protoss have no early harass, and if we see Reapers we have to try and go fast Stalkers or commit to a Forge), the ability to deny scouting completely until the enemy techs up to Lair/Robotics Facility just to have observers while the Terran player is able to freely scan (leaving the Z/P behind in economy as the Terran player can commit those resources to additional Marines/Marauders or hold back and use the scan intel for appropriate counters) and then of course, Terran has a Tier 1 unit composition that is countered by Z/P units that either cost too much to match the Terran player in numbers or the hard counters require too much time/resources to tech to and won't be reached in time before MMM comes knocking at the door.

If you're a Zerg or Protoss player, the imbalances are fairly simple to see with regard to Terran. Pro players know this and some of the top Terran players in the world have said that Terran might be a little imbalanced right now. 91/200 of the top players in the ladder right now are Terran. There's simply TOO MANY things that Terrans are good at, and their Tier 1/1.5 unit composition requires MUCH more micro/macro/teching-up on the Z/P side JUST TO COUNTER!!! (Marauders, i am talking to you and your stupid 100min./25 gas cost that hard counters my Stalkers 125min./50gas cost and nullifies my Zealots with concussive shot!)

Ok, enough. Hopefully it won't be for naught as I stick it out with Protoss until the eventual Terran nerf comes.

Thanks for the tips. I've just had my first practice matches against Terran MM today too










I agree, it's incredibly annoying that it requires this much teching/microing to counter someone who's only using friggin barracks and a tech lab.

Knowing a terran is going to MM, which tech tree would you go first? (DT, immortal, colossus, HT or even VD?)

edit: no news of adding cross region custom games in that patch memo either


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks for the tips. I've just had my first practice matches against Terran MM today too









I agree, it's incredibly annoying that it requires this much teching/microing to counter someone who's only using friggin barracks and a tech lab.

Knowing a terran is going to MM, which tech tree would you go first? (DT, immortal, colossus, HT or even VD?)

I'd go with a large number of Zealots, Sentries for Guardian Shield/FF, and Immortals.

I'd skip Stalker production almost entirely and save their gas cost for Immortals, although you WILL need the Zealot Charge upgrade and a Twilight Council anyways. But a combination of Chargelots/Sentries/Immortals should be fine until you can tech up to Collosi with Extended Thermal Lance or get some High Templars with PsiStorm in the mix. If you can hold with the above units, I might consider going Void Rays and foregoing Colossi/High Templars depending on your macro. You'll have to prevent the Terran player from expanding with some harass while expanding on your own though if you go VRs. Then go for a two front attack, constantly attacking his front while your Void Rays go around and attack from his flank.

Oh, and if he's started to line up siege tanks in the front of his main, focus on his expansions. Continually pump out Zealots though.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
I'd go with a large number of Zealots, Sentries for Guardian Shield/FF, and Immortals.

I'd skip Stalker production almost entirely and save their gas cost for Immortals, although you WILL need the Zealot Charge upgrade and a Twilight Council anyways. But a combination of Chargelots/Sentries/Immortals should be fine until you can tech up to Collosi with Extended Thermal Lance or get some High Templars with PsiStorm in the mix. If you can hold with the above units, I might consider going Void Rays and foregoing Colossi/High Templars depending on your macro. You'll have to prevent the Terran player from expanding with some harass while expanding on your own though if you go VRs. Then go for a two front attack, constantly attacking his front while your Void Rays go around and attack from his flank.

Oh, and if he's started to line up siege tanks in the front of his main, focus on his expansions. Continually pump out Zealots though.

Thanks. Immortals with mass zealots makes sense (and sentries of course).

But I've also been told that terran players hate psy storm more than immortals. High templars have the added bonus (I think it's a bonus...) of being warpgate units. But since I'm going to get a robotics anyway for scouting... argh confused newb is confused.


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks. Immortals with mass zealots makes sense (and sentries of course).

But I've also been told that terran players hate psy storm more than immortals. High templars have the added bonus (I think it's a bonus...) of being warpgate units. But since I'm going to get a robotics anyway for scouting... argh confused newb is confused.

A good Terran player will mix in Ghosts with his MM/MMM ball to nullify High Templars/PsiStorm as well as take down your shields with an EMP. The reason they hate PsiStorm is because you still have the battle advantage if you were able to cast a couple storms before either your Temps were focus-fired or before you were EMP'd. It is pretty much always a good idea to have at least 2 High Templars out there, as getting a storm or two off is so key in a battle against an MMM ball, but if you're going to consider the energy charge time and gas cost of a High Templar, you might not have the time to get your Void Rays or much else.

But Immortals and their shields are key in an MMM battle. Without Immortals, you won't stand a chance. They can pretty much 1-shot Marauders who are already being attacked by your Chargelots while your 'Lots and the Immortals themselves tank a lot of damage. Unless you're vastly outnumbered, this composition will work wonders against an MMM ball.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
A good Terran player will mix in Ghosts with his MM/MMM ball to nullify High Templars/PsiStorm as well as take down your shields with an EMP. The reason they hate PsiStorm is because you still have the battle advantage if you were able to cast a couple storms before either your Temps were focus-fired or before you were EMP'd. It is pretty much always a good idea to have at least 2 High Templars out there, as getting a storm or two off is so key in a battle against an MMM ball, but if you're going to consider the energy charge time and gas cost of a High Templar, you might not have the time to get your Void Rays or much else.

But Immortals and their shields are key in an MMM battle. Without Immortals, you won't stand a chance. They can pretty much 1-shot Marauders who are already being attacked by your Chargelots while your 'Lots and the Immortals themselves tank a lot of damage. Unless you're vastly outnumbered, this composition will work wonders against an MMM ball.

Thanks, I'll try that next. Although to be honest in Silver I have never seen a ghost yet







(I just played against someone who did in practice, but he's a platinum).


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks, I'll try that next. Although to be honest in Silver I have never seen a ghost yet







(I just played against someone who did in practice, but he's a platinum).

In anything below Platinum, don't worry too much about anything else but your *timing*, *scouting* and *unit composition*.

If you constantly know what your enemy is doing, you should be able to counter it. Be pro-active about controlling Xel'Naga towers. Use your Chronoboosts. Don't ever have more than 200-300 worth of resources just sitting there (of course less if you can help it), etc.

The macro and micro comes naturally, and over time, once you've gotten used to doing all of the necessary, basic things in every match. Scouting and timing are the two most important aspects of SCII, IMO.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I just started playing vs. AI as Zerg against Terran and it's pretty frustrating. I think some of the Zerg deficiencies could be helped with better aerial transport. The Overlords are slow and clumsy and they unload too slowly. I get the feeling I could be a lot more dangerous with a fast sturdy transport that unloads quickly. Too bad I can't hijack some medivacs. The Nydus network is okay but by the time you get it the Terrans have all their fancy toys. Their fancy toys are better than my fancy toys.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I just started playing vs. AI as Zerg against Terran and it's pretty frustrating. I think some of the Zerg deficiencies could be helped with better aerial transport. The Overlords are slow and clumsy and they unload too slowly. I get the feeling I could be a lot more dangerous with a fast sturdy transport that unloads quickly. Too bad I can't hijack some medivacs. The Nydus network is okay but by the time you get it the Terrans have all their fancy toys. Their fancy toys are better than my fancy toys.

... use mutas. Or even roaches lol


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I just started playing vs. AI as Zerg against Terran and it's pretty frustrating. I think some of the Zerg deficiencies could be helped with better aerial transport. The Overlords are slow and clumsy and they unload too slowly. I get the feeling I could be a lot more dangerous with a fast sturdy transport that unloads quickly. Too bad I can't hijack some medivacs. The Nydus network is okay but by the time you get it the Terrans have all their fancy toys. Their fancy toys are better than my fancy toys.

Zerg need a composition of burrowed Banelings that detonate when the Terran army walks over them, a lot of Zerglings + Roaches for a decent surround (a surround is a MUST. Get a LOT of Zerglings) and either Mutas or Ultralisks, provided that you have enough time to get them.

Otherwise, an MMM ball will walk right over your base with no problems.


----------



## poroboszcz

Situation Report and upcoming balance changes have been posted!

Quote:

Protoss

We have two key changes in mind for the zealot: the build time is being increased from 33 to 38 seconds, and the warpgate cooldown is being increased from 23 to 28 seconds. Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels, particularly those that rely on rapidly assaulting an enemy base from nearby "proxy" gateways. We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost.

Terran

There are several changes in the works for terrans. Reapers against zerg are stronger than expected. Due to the zealot build time increase, reapers would be a bit problematic in combination with proxy barracks, bunkers, and/or marauders against protoss. Therefore, we have decided to increase the build time of reapers as well from 40 to 45 seconds. Fast reaper + bunker, or fast marine + bunker rushes are problematic against zerg. Although this rush would never outright destroy the zerg player, we feel zerg suffers too much of a disadvantage from either having to cancel the fast expansion, or getting trapped inside the main base for too long, so we are also increasing the bunker build time from 30 to 35 seconds.

Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units. We want a small set of light and unarmored ground units to perform better against siege tanks. With this in mind, we're changing the Siege Mode damage of the siege tank from 50 to 35, +15 vs. armored; to correspond with this, damage upgrades will be changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. This change reduces the base damage of the siege tank against light and unarmored units, as well as the splash damage.

Battlecruisers currently lack good counters from the ground and still perform very well against a wide array of unit types. We're aware that it is not easy to get battlecruisers out for the cost, but at the same time, it is possible in both 1v1s and team games to create stalemate situations to bring them out. Overall, we feel that battlecruisers are too strong for their cost, and the terran-forced stalemate situations are causing less interesting gameplay. We will be lowering their damage against ground units from 10 to 8.

Zerg

Ultralisk damage is being decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. This reduction is comparable to the changes being made to the battlecruiser and siege tank. Like the battlecruiser, ultralisks are simply too powerful for the cost, even though they are difficult to muster. Also, in combination with other units, ultralisks are difficult to counter from the ground. The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.
Source.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcde7ago* 
Zerg need a composition of burrowed Banelings that detonate when the Terran army walks over them, a lot of Zerglings + Roaches for a decent surround (a surround is a MUST. Get a LOT of Zerglings) and either Mutas or Ultralisks, provided that you have enough time to get them.

Otherwise, an MMM ball will walk right over your base with no problems.

What is an MMM ball? Is that just a bunch of marines?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
What is an MMM ball? Is that just a bunch of marines?

Marines, Marauders and Medivacs. The bane of many non-Terrans.


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
What is an MMM ball? Is that just a bunch of marines?

Marines + Marauders + Medivacs. Basically, a walking counter-everything, Tier 1, ball of DEATH, which requires the other two races to tech up to Tier 2/3 units with a lot of microing to properly fend off, which means Zerg or Protoss are either outnumbered, are behind in economy or both...since all the Terran player had to do was build Barracks/Tech Labs and a Factory/Starport if he got Medivacs.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks. Immortals with mass zealots makes sense (and sentries of course).

But I've also been told that terran players hate psy storm more than immortals. High templars have the added bonus (I think it's a bonus...) of being warpgate units. But since I'm going to get a robotics anyway for scouting... argh confused newb is confused.

It was high templars > colossi not immortals. You should pretty much always get immortals until terran makes a lot of marines or just skips marauders entirely.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
It was high templars > colossi not immortals. You should pretty much always get immortals until terran makes a lot of marines or just skips marauders entirely.

Oh sorry my bad








Immortals it is then!

I guess I'll never use high templars







(I keep my games short)


----------



## koven

i always go stalkers w/ blink, immortals and high templars against terran


----------



## ThumperSD

dont forget zealot with charge


----------



## [nK]Sharp

New patch is nerfing the zealots to make their build time longer









http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221


----------



## DoomDash

lots of terran nerfs as expected. kinda interesting.


----------



## thiru

How useful are the weapon/armor/shield upgrades? (specifically, for a protoss player). I've never built a forge








Like should I get them every time? when?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jcde7ago*


Marines + Marauders + Medivacs. Basically, a walking counter-everything, Tier 1, ball of DEATH, which requires the other two races to tech up to Tier 2/3 units with a lot of microing to properly fend off, which means Zerg or Protoss are either outnumbered, are behind in economy or both...since all the Terran player had to do was build Barracks/Tech Labs and a Factory/Starport if he got Medivacs.


Or Marines + Marauders + Medics. That's a combo I used a lot in the campaign. If they didn't have air units I liked Hellion + Marauder + Medic.


----------



## DoomDash

Upgrades are important. Some more important than others in different situations.

Some examples:

A) Unupgraded Zealots kill Zerglings in 3 swipes. Upgraded Zealots ( +1 attack ) kill them in 2 swipes. One less hit is huge in SCII. So if you are playing a Z who is Zergling heavy fast +1 would be very useful.

B) +1 Colossi kill Zerglings in 2 full hits. +2 Colossi kill Zerglings in one full hit.

C) Playing as Z, if you are playing a Protoss who you think will get fast +1 to kill your Zerglings in one less swipe, then you can counter this by getting +1 armor. This evens it out and now Zerglings take 3 swipes instead of 2 again.

D) If you are playing as Terran, and you get +1 attack vs Protoss you will kill stalkers, and zealots in 3 hits instead of 4. I think the same goes for Thors.

As far as shields go I don't know how they work exactly but Blizzard has posted it.

They do make a big difference... don't get them too early but def try to get them.


----------



## pjBSOD

Kinda disappointed I spent $60 on a game I never play >.<


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Upgrades are important. Some more important than others in different situations.

Some examples:

A) Unupgraded Zealots kill Zerglings in 3 swipes. Upgraded Zealots ( +1 attack ) kill them in 2 swipes. One less hit is huge in SCII. So if you are playing a Z who is Zergling heavy fast +1 would be very useful.

B) +1 Colossi kill Zerglings in 2 full hits. +2 Colossi kill Zerglings in one full hit.

C) Playing as Z, if you are playing a Protoss who you think will get fast +1 to kill your Zerglings in one less swipe, then you can counter this by getting +1 armor. This evens it out and now Zerglings take 3 swipes instead of 2 again.

D) If you are playing as Terran, and you get +1 attack vs Protoss you will kill stalkers, and zealots in 3 hits instead of 4. I think the same goes for Thors.

As far as shields go I don't know how they work exactly but Blizzard has posted it.

They do make a big difference... don't get them too early but def try to get them.


Yeah I see how 3 hits instead of 4 or 3->2 can make a difference, I didn't know the simple +1 or +2 made that much a difference though








Guess I'll have to try that... if I can remember.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

The more I think about it, it seems to me the Zerg options vs. Terrans are

A) Short game: gamble everything on a zergling rush.

B) Long game: Defend base and gamble everything on attack via nydus network.

Neither of these is very appealing. Zergling rush works pretty well vs. AI but it ain't much fun to win that way. Letting the game go long is asking for trouble, since the Terrans get many dangerous toys to play with.


----------



## Zulli85

Patch with balance/feature changes to come.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221


----------



## DoomDash

It was posted last page







.

I think Z has the best tier 3 in the game currently.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It was posted last page







.

I think Z has the best tier 3 in the game currently.


The patch details have been posted about 5 times now...

I never see tier 3 units








game always ends before it gets to that.


----------



## DoomDash

I do all the time in TvZ in Diamond.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The patch details have been posted about 5 times now...

I never see tier 3 units








game always ends before it gets to that.


Yeah, I don't see why a Terran player would want to let the game go on long enough for the Zerg to get all their best units plus multiple nydus networks. Terrans can amass enough firepower to force a conclusion before then, and on more favorable terms.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Yeah, I don't see why a Terran player would want to let the game go on long enough for the Zerg to get all their best units plus multiple nydus networks. Terrans can amass enough firepower to force a conclusion before then, and on more favorable terms.


Not in Diamond they cant. I used to win TvZ 90% in phase 1 beta. Now it's quite a struggle. Z players have learned how to survive till tier 3.


----------



## koven

i'm also diamond 1v1 and most TvZ matchups i play, the zerg usually doesn't get past muta's

if you got a few vikings roaming the map taking out overlords and scouting expansions, it's an easy win, combined with the typical MMM army


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *koven*


i'm also diamond 1v1 and most TvZ matchups i play, the zerg usually doesn't get past muta's

if you got a few vikings roaming the map taking out overlords and scouting expansions, it's an easy win, combined with the typical MMM army


Really? I find that hard to believe that your being successful with a bio ball and some vikings.

A ) Z > Bio with infestors and whatever they want after that.

B ) Vikings suck if muta's are out. Curropoters too.

C) Metal is the standard for this match up... so you are playing it very odd.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Yeah, I don't see why a Terran player would want to let the game go on long enough for the Zerg to get all their best units plus multiple nydus networks. Terrans can amass enough firepower to force a conclusion before then, and on more favorable terms.


Flip face like Large Marge in a Mac truck.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


Flip face like Large Marge in a Mac truck.


----------



## koven

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Really? I find that hard to believe that your being successful with a bio ball and some vikings.

A ) Z > Bio with infestors and whatever they want after that.

B ) Vikings suck if muta's are out. Curropoters too.

C) Metal is the standard for this match up... so you are playing it very odd.


well all i have to say is there's more to sc2 than macro, it's a lot about timing and micro too


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Yeah, I don't see why a Terran player would want to let the game go on long enough for the Zerg to get all their best units plus multiple nydus networks. Terrans can amass enough firepower to force a conclusion before then, and on more favorable terms.


"Best units"? What are those exactly?









Thors and vikings wreck air units, siege tanks and marines/maurauders wreck ground units...


----------



## DoomDash

You are thinking about things INCREDIBLY simplistic. This is a problem with most current SCII players.

On paper Terran looks amazing. You can't think of it just on paper unit for unit. You must think about everything at once.

Thors are good vs Muta, yep. Thors also are incredibly immobile / expensive.

Vikings are good vs air units? Well that's true in a sense, but actually Zerg has the best AA unit in game ( curropter ). Curropters wreck vikings with curroption. Not only that but Muta's > Vikings. Do the tests yourself in unit tester if you don't believe me.

Yes, Terran units are sick on the ground... but Zerg has mobility, cheaper expansions, and much better macro mechanics. You can't think of things in 1:1 situations. The entire reason the roach was nerfed to two food in beta was because the ability for Zerg to replace entire armies in seconds with built up larva.

I mean this is like poor silver level arguments here.

As a SC1 / BW player as well, the game really isn't much different. Zerg back then never could exchange with similar sized Protoss and Terran armies and expect to win. Just not set up to work that way.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You are thinking about things INCREDIBLY simplistic. This is a problem with most current SCII players.

On paper Terran looks amazing. You can't think of it just on paper unit for unit. You must think about everything at once.

Thors are good vs Muta, yep. Thors also are incredibly immobile / expensive.

Vikings are good vs air units? Well that's true in a sense, but actually Zerg has the best AA unit in game ( curropter ). Curropters wreck vikings with curroption. Not only that but Muta's > Vikings. Do the tests yourself in unit tester if you don't believe me.

Yes, Terran units are sick on the ground... but Zerg has mobility, cheaper expansions, and much better macro mechanics. You can't think of things in 1:1 situations. The entire reason the roach was nerfed to two food in beta was because the ability for Zerg to replace entire armies in seconds with built up larva.

I mean this is like poor silver level arguments here.

As a SC1 / BW player as well, the game really isn't much different. Zerg back then never could exchange with similar sized Protoss and Terran armies and expect to win. Just not set up to work that way.


I may have been somewhat exaggerating in my previous statement, but my basic point remains and it's actually pretty true.

Thor vs muta.

Thor: 300 minerals, 200 gas, 6 supply. The latter is the biggest blow against it. 
Mutalisk: 100 minerals, 100 gas, 2 supply. You'll get 2 mutas for the same gas price as a thor (as gas is in far shorter supply, and you'll usually have an excess of minerals). A thor will absolutely wreck two mutas with ease. Plus... mutalisk range: 3. Thor anti air range? 10. A ****ing *10*. With splash damage. By the time mutas even get in range of thors, some will be dead.

Mutas do tend to be > vikings, yes, but vikings does have huge advantages. A) anti air missiles range? NINE. So again, mutas will die before they even get in range (although they'll get in range fast). Plus, vikings are 150 minerals, but only 75 gas. And you can use the reactor to pump them out like crazy, so often enough you'll see more vikings than you do mutalisks.

As for corruptors... yeah, corruptors are good anti air... vs carriers, battlecruisers, and motherships. Why? Because they get a +damage bonus vs massive targets, which vikings happen not to be. And again, corruptors have a 6 range, so still less than vikings. Plus you'll again usually see more vikings than corruptors, as the latter cost 150 minerals and 100 gas. In equal numbers, vikings usually win (corruption is pathetic, as it adds maybe 1-2 damage a hit for a single target. Usually not worth the energy except in rare cases).

And now to zerg mobility... are you kidding me? Really? Zerg mobility is possibly the worst in the game right now. Off creep, which is ridiculously easy to prevent (oh hey a creep tumor! *pop*), zerg units are pathetically slow. Zerg have *three* separate speed increase upgrades, all at 100 min/gas (zerglings, which is pretty much standard. roach, almost as much. I'll rarely see an overlord speed increase though). Add to the fact that you must add yet another upgrade at 200/200 to even be able to move units with the overlord (which comes standard for a gas free protoss unit, or a hugely versatile terran unit), the mobility is very sub-standard. Nydus canals are a benefit, yes, but they're fairly easy to see, are heard through the entire map, and cost precious minerals and GAS to create an exit in the first place. Add to the fact the units exit one by one at a glacial pace...

The hydralisk speed nerf is practically an insult to gamers. Admittedly it might not need the speed it had in starcraft 1, but at the moment, it is so pathetically slow off creep that it is nigh useless as a quick response unit, or even in attacks. It certainly cannot escape any overwhelming force it might present.

terran mobility is far better, as one of the most powerful forces in the game is a relatively cheap and simple one: the MMM combo. Stim them, and they zoom across the map at olympic runner speeds, or just transport them in the medivac itself to drop anywhere. And let us not mention the bane of any mineral line, the reaper. Why in the hell would you give *free* cliffjumping to such an early/cheap unit? Stalkers still need blink cliffjump, and even then they need sight.

Protoss mobility is off the scale, with pylons and warpgates and whatnot.

Zerg mobility is sub par (especially off creep), and/or too expensive, and get screwed over by map design in the first place: chokes, chokes, chokes everywhere the eye can see, with little to no way of properly walling it off/holding it with siege units (which we entirely lack short of broodlords, which take entirely too long to get. Oh yeah, vikings eat the sickeningly slow moving broodlords for breakfast~). And absolutely *no* cliff jumpers. Nydus does not particularly count, needing a building, and an exit, and is as mentioned easily detectable.

/rant off


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I may have been somewhat exaggerating in my previous statement, but my basic point remains and it's actually pretty true.

Thor vs muta.

Thor: 300 minerals, 200 gas, 6 supply. The latter is the biggest blow against it. 
Mutalisk: 100 minerals, 100 gas, 2 supply. You'll get 2 mutas for the same gas price as a thor (as gas is in far shorter supply, and you'll usually have an excess of minerals). A thor will absolutely wreck two mutas with ease. Plus... mutalisk range: 3. Thor anti air range? 10. A ****ing *10*. With splash damage. By the time mutas even get in range of thors, some will be dead.

Mutas do tend to be > vikings, yes, but vikings does have huge advantages. A) anti air missiles range? NINE. So again, mutas will die before they even get in range (although they'll get in range fast). Plus, vikings are 150 minerals, but only 75 gas. And you can use the reactor to pump them out like crazy, so often enough you'll see more vikings than you do mutalisks.

As for corruptors... yeah, corruptors are good anti air... vs carriers, battlecruisers, and motherships. Why? Because they get a +damage bonus vs massive targets, which vikings happen not to be. And again, corruptors have a 6 range, so still less than vikings. Plus you'll again usually see more vikings than corruptors, as the latter cost 150 minerals and 100 gas. In equal numbers, vikings usually win (corruption is pathetic, as it adds maybe 1-2 damage a hit for a single target. Usually not worth the energy except in rare cases).

And now to zerg mobility... are you kidding me? Really? Zerg mobility is possibly the worst in the game right now. Off creep, which is ridiculously easy to prevent (oh hey a creep tumor! *pop*), zerg units are pathetically slow. Zerg have *three* separate speed increase upgrades, all at 100 min/gas (zerglings, which is pretty much standard. roach, almost as much. I'll rarely see an overlord speed increase though). Add to the fact that you must add yet another upgrade at 200/200 to even be able to move units with the overlord (which comes standard for a gas free protoss unit, or a hugely versatile terran unit), the mobility is very sub-standard. Nydus canals are a benefit, yes, but they're fairly easy to see, are heard through the entire map, and cost precious minerals and GAS to create an exit in the first place. Add to the fact the units exit one by one at a glacial pace...

The hydralisk speed nerf is practically an insult to gamers. Admittedly it might not need the speed it had in starcraft 1, but at the moment, it is so pathetically slow off creep that it is nigh useless as a quick response unit, or even in attacks. It certainly cannot escape any overwhelming force it might present.

terran mobility is far better, as one of the most powerful forces in the game is a relatively cheap and simple one: the MMM combo. Stim them, and they zoom across the map at olympic runner speeds, or just transport them in the medivac itself to drop anywhere. And let us not mention the bane of any mineral line, the reaper. Why in the hell would you give *free* cliffjumping to such an early/cheap unit? Stalkers still need blink cliffjump, and even then they need sight.

Protoss mobility is off the scale, with pylons and warpgates and whatnot.

Zerg mobility is sub par (especially off creep), and/or too expensive, and get screwed over by map design in the first place: chokes, chokes, chokes everywhere the eye can see, with little to no way of properly walling it off/holding it with siege units (which we entirely lack short of broodlords, which take entirely too long to get. Oh yeah, vikings eat the sickeningly slow moving broodlords for breakfast~). And absolutely *no* cliff jumpers. Nydus does not particularly count, needing a building, and an exit, and is as mentioned easily detectable.

/rant off










I'm just warning you that I'm going to break your entire post down and tell you why your wrong, but it will take me awhile so check back







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Again, i'll admit that I'm no analyst and may be somewhat exaggerating (not really consciously) in some cases, most of what I'm saying there isn't far off the mark at all









I may be overstating how badly off the zerg are, but they're definitely not in a good spot at ALL.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I may have been somewhat exaggerating in my previous statement, but my basic point remains and it's actually pretty true.

Thor vs muta.

Thor: 300 minerals, 200 gas, 6 supply. The latter is the biggest blow against it. 
Mutalisk: 100 minerals, 100 gas, 2 supply. You'll get 2 mutas for the same gas price as a thor (as gas is in far shorter supply, and you'll usually have an excess of minerals). A thor will absolutely wreck two mutas with ease. Plus... mutalisk range: 3. Thor anti air range? 10. A ****ing *10*. With splash damage. By the time mutas even get in range of thors, some will be dead.
*Again, you're only incorporating part of the story here. Yes, when you engage thors with mutas you will end up losing, even more money's worth. Muta's were never a unit to engage units that counter them EVER. Muta's are meant for harass, or to hit people where they are weak / not prepare for them. Chances are that the Terran won't have thors everywhere at once to stop muta harass. Plus you can spread out your muta's too and it helps a ton. Then you take into account that you can also have 2 mutas, AND 8 Zerglings on top of that price, which will easily beat a Thor. Thor's weakness is either armored air, or smaller units paired up with other units.*

Mutas do tend to be > vikings, yes, but vikings does have huge advantages. A) anti air missiles range? NINE. So again, mutas will die before they even get in range (although they'll get in range fast). Plus, vikings are 150 minerals, but only 75 gas. And you can use the reactor to pump them out like crazy, so often enough you'll see more vikings than you do mutalisks.
*Range 9 is meaningless though if mutalisks move faster ( which they do ). This makes any kiting impossible. Even WITH Vikings getting all the free hits in on mutas they will not beat them in equal numbers PERIOD. Vikings are more expensive than Mutalisks as well... yes muta's are more gas but I'll get into that in a second. Also, the Reactor argument is null and void. Reactors don't even begin to compare to the macro mechanics of Zerg. You can have so many larva per hatch its not even funny. At maxed you can BUILD up your larva, so if you lose your entire mutalisk army you can literally spawn an entire new one in no time. You'd have to have probably some crazy amount of starports w/ reactors to even remotely compare to that, plus you have to take into account how much EACH starport costs, and EACH reactor. With Zerg, you plop down a spire and you are good to go. *

As for corruptors... yeah, corruptors are good anti air... vs carriers, battlecruisers, and motherships. Why? Because they get a +damage bonus vs massive targets, which vikings happen not to be. And again, corruptors have a 6 range, so still less than vikings. Plus you'll again usually see more vikings than corruptors, as the latter cost 150 minerals and 100 gas. In equal numbers, vikings usually win (corruption is pathetic, as it adds maybe 1-2 damage a hit for a single target. Usually not worth the energy except in rare cases). *Wrong. Just wrong. Curropters are good vs pretty much everything in the sky period. They are the single best AA in the game. They will beat vikings in equal numbers w/ curroption ( test it in unit tester ), they will slaughter bc's, carriers, void rays, you name it. Not only that but curroption works on ground units so its just a good spell all around. Combine that with the amazing macro mechanics of Z and it only takes 30 seconds to turn around a game where you were not ready for bc's or vikings ( ask me how I know ). It is ALWAYS worth the energy. 20% is game changing.. and there is NO reason not to use it. *

And now to zerg mobility... are you kidding me? Really? Zerg mobility is possibly the worst in the game right now. Off creep, which is ridiculously easy to prevent (oh hey a creep tumor! *pop*), zerg units are pathetically slow. Zerg have *three* separate speed increase upgrades, all at 100 min/gas (zerglings, which is pretty much standard. roach, almost as much. I'll rarely see an overlord speed increase though). Add to the fact that you must add yet another upgrade at 200/200 to even be able to move units with the overlord (which comes standard for a gas free protoss unit, or a hugely versatile terran unit), the mobility is very sub-standard. Nydus canals are a benefit, yes, but they're fairly easy to see, are heard through the entire map, and cost precious minerals and GAS to create an exit in the first place. Add to the fact the units exit one by one at a glacial pace...
*Zerg mobility is great because of its ability to spread creep, as well as many other things. Lets be honest, spreading the creep isn't all that hard? Make one extra queen and you're golden. Get a lair and spread creep with overlords, w/e. Zerglings are the fastest unit in the game period. Creep or not even. Roaches are plenty fast with the upgrade, and its not that unreasonable to get. Mutalisks are the most mobile air unit in the game besides the phoenix, but obviously mutalisks are much more of a threat. Nydus networks obviously can make units go from one base to another in seconds, for defense, or offense. Now, here is another big key thing you are missing. You mention that transportation for the Warp Prism comes free. Of course it comes free. You automatically have probably 20+ drop ships after spending that 200/200 on transportation upgrade. Remember you already have the overlords, and you already have a ton of them. That would be like having 20 warp prisms... thats just not affordable. That's a HUGE advantage for Zerg. Now that 200/200 makes it seem a lot more fair does it not? Zerg is famous for "doom" drops for a reason you know...

As far as Hydras go, yeah they are pretty best on creep. No doubt about that, but again creep isn't hard to spread, and against Toss Hydra's are so good vs gateway units that they need to have some major disadvantages.

Also, do you see how fast infestors move with the burrow upgrade? It's nuts! And they are a GREAT unit. 
*

The hydralisk speed nerf is practically an insult to gamers. Admittedly it might not need the speed it had in starcraft 1, but at the moment, it is so pathetically slow off creep that it is nigh useless as a quick response unit, or even in attacks. It certainly cannot escape any overwhelming force it might present.

terran mobility is far better, as one of the most powerful forces in the game is a relatively cheap and simple one: the MMM combo. Stim them, and they zoom across the map at olympic runner speeds, or just transport them in the medivac itself to drop anywhere. And let us not mention the bane of any mineral line, the reaper. Why in the hell would you give *free* cliffjumping to such an early/cheap unit? Stalkers still need blink cliffjump, and even then they need sight.

Protoss mobility is off the scale, with pylons and warpgates and whatnot.

Zerg mobility is sub par (especially off creep), and/or too expensive, and get screwed over by map design in the first place: chokes, chokes, chokes everywhere the eye can see, with little to no way of properly walling it off/holding it with siege units (which we entirely lack short of broodlords, which take entirely too long to get. Oh yeah, vikings eat the sickeningly slow moving broodlords for breakfast~). And absolutely *no* cliff jumpers. Nydus does not particularly count, needing a building, and an exit, and is as mentioned easily detectable.

/rant off










I think Protoss mobility is almost as good as Zerg, but certainly not Terran, especially a Terran with tanks and thors. MM aren't all that fast either unless you are at drop ship tech, but then at that point you should have enough infestors to deal with that problem.

And for the gas point:

Its easier to expand as Zerg. 300 minerals, nydus networks for defense, ect. If you watch the best Z players play they make hatches/expans specifically for getting gas. You pretty much never see Terran at a point where he can do that.


----------



## DoomDash

Oh and I don't think the match up is inbalanced at all. Not making an argument that Zerg is OP or something, just pointing out that each race has its own unique advantages.


----------



## Heret|c

Ha ha lol I just plaid vs a Terran and I built tones of mutas and attacked his peasants,
then run away, then I just captured a whole bunch of bases and kept on building more and more mutas and then he tried to go to capture a base and my mutas completely steamrolled all his mans! Then I win!


----------



## jcde7ago

I am just going to chime in and say that for those who keep track of the pro scene, the imbalances of some aspects of Terran, ESPECIALLY in TvZ matchups, have been clearly shown. Even the top Terran players in the world acknowledge this.

Zerg are a great race, provided that you know how to play them correctly. The problem is, playing them "correctly" means that they are far, FAR less accessible to players below Diamond. The micro/macro level associated with playing Zerg is FAR less passive than Protoss, but especially compared to Terran. You've got to be very, very intimate with your micro and macro to make Zerg work at the upper/pro levels of play. And that to me spells imbalance. There is no way you can make a race FAR less accessible than the other two. Zerg needs a buff. And i am a Protoss player.

So while DoomDash might not have a problem being a Diamond Zerg and holding his own, the same really can't be said for the rest of the ladder. Zerg comprise 18% of the top 200 ladder. That is a ridiculously low fraction for a pool of 200 players. I've watched pro Zerg players play Terran players of lesser skill at the pro-level and the Zerg players pretty much cannot afford to make a mistake AT ALL during the match, or they are done. And in the end, the Terrans win out most of the time (unless you're IdrA. And even he lost to MorroW, a Terran player, 3-1, in a best of 5...and IdrA is considered to be the best Zerg player in the world right now). You know a race is imba when most of the pros refuse to play it or decided to switch to Terran.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


And let us not mention the bane of any mineral line, the reaper. Why in the hell would you give *free* cliffjumping to such an early/cheap unit? Stalkers still need blink cliffjump, and even then they need sight.


I totally agree with this. The first time I used reapers on a hit-and-run against Protoss mineral miners it felt like I was cheating. I smashed a bunch of stuff and skipped away over a cliff when the guards showed up. And I did it again and again. It was like taking candy from a baby. I honestly think Blizzard should either make reapers a helluva lot more expensive or just get rid of them altogether. In the Magic card game when an unreasonably powerful card is identified players say the card is "broken" and lots of tournaments prohibit those cards. I think reapers are broken.


----------



## swisha

this was fun to say the least. 90 vikings ftw?


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I totally agree with this. The first time I used reapers on a hit-and-run against Protoss mineral miners it felt like I was cheating. I smashed a bunch of stuff and skipped away over a cliff when the guards showed up. And I did it again and again. It was like taking candy from a baby. I honestly think Blizzard should either make reapers a helluva lot more expensive or just get rid of them altogether. In the Magic card game when an unreasonably powerful card is identified players say the card is "broken" and lots of tournaments prohibit those cards. I think reapers are broken.


I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.


----------



## Realcacheese

Yeah, it's kinda depressing as a zerg player sometimes.
Reapers are REALLY GOOD every early game vs zerg.

New changes should help at least a little though(+5 build time).


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jcde7ago*


I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.


You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.


http://www.sc2replayed.com/

That is one of the sites I go to for replays. To see some professional matches I am sure you can find those on youtube.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realcacheese*


Reapers are REALLY GOOD every early game vs zerg.


Every time I play a 2v2 (and sometimes 1v1) as protoss facing any terran player I generally try to build cannons near my base just in case they go reapers.

Terran is probably one of the races I find to be more difficult to play against since I find most people going MM balls and that just leaves me to go zealot,stalker and sentrys and then I still need to micro and tech up more just to deal with it while the terran player just has to keep pumping out the same units the whole game.


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.


I saw it streamed live last week.

Yeah, the replays are one thing to get for sure if you want to learn.

Also, here are the matches on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ra+morrow&aq=f

It's the first 4 results (or at least it should be).


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


http://www.sc2replayed.com/

That is one of the sites I go to for replays. To see some professional matches I am sure you can find those on youtube.

Every time I play a 2v2 (and sometimes 1v1) as protoss facing any terran player I generally try to build cannons near my base just in case they go reapers.

Terran is probably one of the races I find to be more difficult to play against since I find most people going MM balls and that just leaves me to go zealot,stalker and sentrys and then I still need to micro and tech up more just to deal with it while the terran player just has to keep pumping out the same units the whole game.


Stop Stalker production after a handful and tech immediately up to Immortals. You should already have a Robo Bay since you need observers, so that shouldn't be an issue. But I agree with you; as a Protoss player, our structures/upgrades are rape enough on resources, moreso than Terran, and yet we need the entire tech tree it seems like to produce hard counters for Terran Tier 1 units. (I outlined this in detail a page or two back)!


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jcde7ago*


http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ra+morrow&aq=f


"Hes building a supply depot " Seriously, lol :/


----------



## Tatakai All

Wow!







I've gotta be THE worst player out there then. With all this talk about the imbalance of the zerg and how that terran player beat out the top zerg player in the world. I can't beat a zerg player as terran to save my life. And I only play terran. I think I'm just gonna give up. Don't know if you can with the online sync to the key code but I'll be giving away my copy as a freebie in another thread. Good luck guys it was fun but the beatdowns were just demoralizing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jcde7ago*


I am just going to chime in and say that for those who keep track of the pro scene, the imbalances of some aspects of Terran, ESPECIALLY in TvZ matchups, have been clearly shown. Even the top Terran players in the world acknowledge this.

Zerg are a great race, provided that you know how to play them correctly. The problem is, playing them "correctly" means that they are far, FAR less accessible to players below Diamond. The micro/macro level associated with playing Zerg is FAR less passive than Protoss, but especially compared to Terran. You've got to be very, very intimate with your micro and macro to make Zerg work at the upper/pro levels of play. And that to me spells imbalance. There is no way you can make a race FAR less accessible than the other two. Zerg needs a buff. And i am a Protoss player.

So while DoomDash might not have a problem being a Diamond Zerg and holding his own, the same really can't be said for the rest of the ladder. Zerg comprise 18% of the top 200 ladder. That is a ridiculously low fraction for a pool of 200 players. I've watched pro Zerg players play Terran players of lesser skill at the pro-level and the Zerg players pretty much cannot afford to make a mistake AT ALL during the match, or they are done. And in the end, the Terrans win out most of the time (unless you're IdrA. And even he lost to MorroW, a Terran player, 3-1, in a best of 5...and IdrA is considered to be the best Zerg player in the world right now). You know a race is imba when most of the pros refuse to play it or decided to switch to Terran.


Well first off I will say I am a Diamond Terran player ( http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ ). I would be a Zerg player because I love playing ZvT and ZvP but ZvZ is by far the dullest match up in the game, and because of that I went to Terran exclusively.

Second off, You forget to mention that in general that there are just not as many Zerg players in the world as their are Terran ( almost 2:1 i believe ), so listing that there are more Terran players in the top 200 isn't really a surprise. It also isn't a surprise considering the single player campaign is Terran, so people got the most familiar with Terran first. I mean we can all throw around stats that look like they favor people. I could mention that there are more Zerg players in Diamond per player than any other race, but that's not looking at the whole picture.

Also, I most the pros have been pretty hush hush on balance. I do hear people complaining about Terran occasionally, but I really believe its too early to tell even for the pros. I'll get into this more in a second.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jcde7ago*


I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.


If you listen to some of the interviews about that event a lot of people admitted that idrA just didn't play that well. I'm not saying thats entirely it, but from what everyone is saying the reaper strat that marrow was doing was a pretty fresh style / build that idrA probably didn't have much experience dealing with. I also know that Diamaga ( sp ) another top Z player helped marrow perfect that build, so it makes perfect sense that it was as effective as it was. This is why I say it's really to early to tell. In a month or two assuming balance wasn't changed Z could have some fresh new build that could easily counter the reaper build.

In SC1/BW it took YEARS for people to realize X build was actually good, or X race was good. Before Boxer people thought Terran sucked... and that's far from the truth.

Maybe the match up is unbalanced, but it's certainly not as bad as most of these Z players on the internet make it out to be. Believe me when I tell you I could beat most of them with any race / it doesn't matter if I'm playing Terran.

Last thing on Marrow, Artosis even said Marrows Terran is sick / scary, nothing to do with Terran as whole, just Marrow being a sick ass player.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I spelled a bunch of peoples names wrong.. eh w/e.

and idra is a stubborn MACRO only player who is about as creative as a fetus. hardly would call him what Zerg should be.


----------



## Monkey92

Ok guys, I got a trial key, but I cannot make the Blizzard Downloader work.

P2P does NOT play well with my ISP/Router, and I can't make it work (tried for a long time).

I've tried turning off P2P in the program, but it still won't work.

Code:


Code:


08/27/10 23:36:29.0954 Bonjour service is running.
08/27/10 23:36:29.0957 Downloader initializing...
08/27/10 23:36:29.0959 Loading meta data file...

08/27/10 23:36:29.0989 Creating Firewall interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.0991 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.0994 Enabling Microsoft Firewall UPnP Framework
08/27/10 23:36:29.0996 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.0998 Enabling Blizzard Downloader on Windows Firewall
08/27/10 23:36:29.1000 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1002 Creating Firewall interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.1004 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1006 Creating Microsoft Firewall Rule: Blizzard Downloader: 3724
08/27/10 23:36:29.1008 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1010 Creating UPnP interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.1012 Getting UPnPDevice Information
08/27/10 23:36:29.1015 Found Bonjour service and registering a local peer.
08/27/10 23:36:29.1017 Connecting to: http://us.tracker.worldofwarcraft.com:3724/announce with 1
08/27/10 23:36:38.4787 UPnP device Found:
08/27/10 23:36:38.4809 Manufacturer: D-Link Systems
08/27/10 23:36:38.4829 Model: Xtreme N GIGABIT Router
08/27/10 23:36:38.4854 Model Number: DIR-655
08/27/10 23:36:38.4873 Device URL: http://www.dlink.com
08/27/10 23:36:38.4948 Could not find port mappings on UPnP Device.
08/27/10 23:36:38.4971 Add UPnP Device port forward: 3724
08/27/10 23:36:38.5093 External port has been successfully mapped.
08/27/10 23:36:48.7733 Connected in 58+21342 ms
08/27/10 23:36:48.7758 Received an error code from tracker: 0

Any ideas? Or an alternate place to download it?


----------



## DoomDash

I hate to say it but you could download a cracked copy and just use a legit trail key.

BTW I have a legit trial key for anyone who will spread some rep ( i want in the fs section ! ) .


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays?f...r-tournament=3

Hey, lookie what I found


----------



## jcde7ago

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well first off I will say I am a Diamond Terran player ( http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ ). I would be a Zerg player because I love playing ZvT and ZvP but ZvZ is by far the dullest match up in the game, and because of that I went to Terran exclusively.

Second off, You forget to mention that in general that there are just not as many Zerg players in the world as their are Terran ( almost 2:1 i believe ), so listing that there are more Terran players in the top 200 isn't really a surprise. It also isn't a surprise considering the single player campaign is Terran, so people got the most familiar with Terran first. I mean we can all throw around stats that look like they favor people. I could mention that there are more Zerg players in Diamond per player than any other race, but that's not looking at the whole picture.

Also, I most the pros have been pretty hush hush on balance. I do hear people complaining about Terran occasionally, but I really believe its too early to tell even for the pros. I'll get into this more in a second.

If you listen to some of the interviews about that event a lot of people admitted that idrA just didn't play that well. I'm not saying thats entirely it, but from what everyone is saying the reaper strat that marrow was doing was a pretty fresh style / build that idrA probably didn't have much experience dealing with. I also know that Diamaga ( sp ) another top Z player helped marrow perfect that build, so it makes perfect sense that it was as effective as it was. This is why I say it's really to early to tell. In a month or two assuming balance wasn't changed Z could have some fresh new build that could easily counter the reaper build.

In SC1/BW it took YEARS for people to realize X build was actually good, or X race was good. Before Boxer people thought Terran sucked... and that's far from the truth.

Maybe the match up is unbalanced, but it's certainly not as bad as most of these Z players on the internet make it out to be. Believe me when I tell you I could beat most of them with any race / it doesn't matter if I'm playing Terran.

Last thing on Marrow, Artosis even said Marrows Terran is sick / scary, nothing to do with Terran as whole, just Marrow being a sick ass player.


Well, that brings me to my point; Zerg in general are a far less accessible race compared to the other two.

The micro/macro level for Zerg really is on another level compared to the other two races. And given the very limited composition of the most popular Zerg builds, it's really just a Zerg player being far more skilled than the other player if he beats them.

Most Zs on the ladder haven't developed the skills necessary yet to be able to play Zerg fully, so we'll give that time. But the fact that the other two races allow for a much more passive playstyle compared to the minute micro/macro of Zerg is one of the reasons why it's an underused in the first place. It isn't just because of the single player campaign; heck I doubt most of the top-200 even got serious with the single player campaign, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

You can have that opinion all you like, but I know the power of the swarm! Zerg is fantastic in this game. I blame ZvZ for the lack of Zerg players.. baneling wars gets old quick.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Maybe the game will be fine once they actually finish it and get the other two campaigns out (which I assume will bring new units and what not).


----------



## Tchernobyl

As a zerg player myself, I actually find ZvZ the most fun. It's more dynamic and, well, balanced, since we're fighting with the same tools. vs Protoss can be a tad frustrating at times (positively absolutely and totally hate mass stalkers), and vs terran, I just want to beat someone to death. Preferably the opposing player, or the people responsible for balance


----------



## DoomDash

ugg how can anyone like ZvZ? I can't even take your word for that







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Because it isn't as frustrating as the other two!


----------



## DoomDash

For me its far far worse. ZvT and ZvP are fun as hell.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

I like playing against zerg as Protoss probably the best personally. Just did a TvT not to long ago and was thinking of going zealot,stalker,sentry but then just decided to go void rays which payed off. My opponent went all zealots at first and just as he had 4 in the front of my base my first void ray came up and killed them all, I then waited for another to finish before heading to his base. Once at his base I started destroying a building while he warped in some stalkers but bad news for him is I was already charged so I killed all of his stalkers but he finally downed my VR's after a while. At the time though his economy was hit to hard and he couldn't build stalkers faster then my VR's in time to save himself.


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


For me its far far worse. ZvT and ZvP are fun as hell.


ZvP is fun. The matchup is overall pretty balanced. Some adjustments could be made but its alright for the most part.
ZvZ is alright. Like, it's pretty much ling/bling vs ling/bling and that's kinda ******ed but at least its quick and really unique compared to other matchups.
ZvT is frustrating, boring, and one of the reasons I don't play sc2 that much.


----------



## Heret|c

Mutas pwn so bad lol:


----------



## pewpewlazer

God I HATE Zerg. I die inside every time I see "Zerg" as my opponents race on the loading screen. I play Protoss and just can't handle them. 9 times out of 10 the match is such a one sided ass kicking it isn't even funny.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pewpewlazer*


God I HATE Zerg. I die inside every time I see "Zerg" as my opponents race on the loading screen. I play Protoss and just can't handle them. 9 times out of 10 the match is such a one sided ass kicking it isn't even funny.











What league are you in? at my level I'm happy when I face zerg. I hate playing against terran because of MM balls and I don't really like playing against protoss because I play protoss myself.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*










What league are you in? at my level I'm happy when I face zerg. I hate playing against terran because of MM balls and I don't really like playing against protoss because I play protoss myself.


What league are you in? In my league everything is pretty even







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What league are you in? In my league everything is pretty even







.


I'm in silver. Everything's pretty even here too apart from terran MMs, which I can't counter correctly yet.


----------



## DoomDash

Add me sometime and maybe I can give you some tips.

*edit* damn you have the euro version then I assume.


----------



## thiru

Yup. But no worries there's a platinum player (Blinker/porobosz-something







) here giving me tips and there's also a diamond euro player on OCN though I've never spoken to him. Besides I'm not sure a diamond could help a silver better than a platinum can (I mean everyone says diamond/platinum is where you start needing micro, while I should be focusing on my macro right?).


----------



## DoomDash

I played Blinker in the OC.net tournament. He used a guest pass







.

I still think I could help with some tricks. Terran has a bunch of weak points.


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*










What league are you in? at my level I'm happy when I face zerg. I hate playing against terran because of MM balls and I don't really like playing against protoss because I play protoss myself.


I'm ~500 Diamond. From what I've heard from Zerg players in game and on Team Liquid I feel like I should be steam rolling Zerg with my eyes closed and my left hand tied behind my back.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I'm ~550 Diamond and I struggle against Z certainly more than Toss or T.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I played Blinker in the Overclock.net tournament. He used a guest pass







.

I still think I could help with some tricks. Terran has a bunch of weak points.


Well I'm currently practicing my anti-MM build. Well, practice is a big word, I only played a few games today.
Yeah lucky Blinker, I wish I could have gotten a guest pass (but I was out of town anyway...)

[email protected]: oh well if you're in diamond then never mind


----------



## pewpewlazer

At my level I find PvT to be very fair. Though I'm still at the point where I can win games simply by out macroing my opponent. I just do a normal fast warp gate opening with 3-4 gates and robo. If I see siege tanks I like to throw down a star port and grab some phoenixes for the grav beam. Still trying to work on utilizing sentry force field more. I always seem to have genius placements just a second too late.


----------



## DoomDash

I still have one guest pass left. And dont build for MM, build for MMG







. Ghosts are the real problem. MM is easy to beat as toss.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I still have one guest pass left. And dont build for MM, build for MMG







. Ghosts are the real problem. MM is easy to beat as toss.


Would you believe me if I said I've never EVER seen a ghost in league? (Blinker used them against me in custom game though







)

What's different for MMG?

edit: well if you still have that pass for the next OCN tourney I'll be glad to relieve you of it


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What's different for MMG?


They have an emp ability that heavily damages shields which is devastating vs a lot of toss units. Don't know what the ability is called since I don't play terran :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Would you believe me if I said I've never EVER seen a ghost in league? (Blinker used them against me in custom game though







)

What's different for MMG?

edit: well if you still have that pass for the next OCN tourney I'll be glad to relieve you of it










If you look in the tournament thread you can watch me and Blinker play TvP ( replays are up ). I do MMG vs him pretty sure.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I played Blinker in the Overclock.net tournament. He used a guest pass







.

I still think I could help with some tricks. Terran has a bunch of weak points.


How do you prevent early reaper harassment as a Z player? Some maps allow reapers to go hog wild in the early going. How do you prevent that while still keeping the terrans from amassing enough tech/firepower to crush you?


----------



## Heret|c

Hey guys I see you are some sort of a really 1337 RTS players, can you say me pls,
which is the easiest race/tactic to use to pwn ppl up really fast?

Should I start a terran player and build reapers and they pwn really bad?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


which is the easiest race/tactic to use to pwn ppl up really fast?


No such thing since every in the game basically has a counter.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


How do you prevent early reaper harassment as a Z player? Some maps allow reapers to go hog wild in the early going. How do you prevent that while still keeping the terrans from amassing enough tech/firepower to crush you?


Speedlings aren't bad vs Reapers actually. You have to micro to surround them. Queens keep your line pretty safe as well. I recommend building your pool BEHIND your mineral line, block any way for Reapers to run behind it if at all possible. Spine Crawlers well prevent most reaper harass too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


They have an emp ability that heavily damages shields which is devastating vs a lot of toss units. Don't know what the ability is called since I don't play terran :/


I know what a ghost is...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you look in the tournament thread you can watch me and Blinker play TvP ( replays are up ). I do MMG vs him pretty sure.


Oh, I don't think I've watched that game yet. Thanks, I'll watch that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I know what a ghost is...
Oh, I don't think I've watched that game yet. Thanks, I'll watch that.


lots of ghost action, just watched them again.


----------



## DoomDash

Everyone here I recommend "Unit Tester" :
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/unit-tester/


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I played Blinker in the Overclock.net tournament. He used a guest pass







.

I still think I could help with some tricks. Terran has a bunch of weak points.

I could definitely use some as well. Have been struggling with this matchup for a while now, especially since I started playing against diamond terrans. While against 1/1/1 I feel like toss has a lot of options, against 3rax + ghost I'm under constant pressure. So far it seems like zealots+sentries are they way to go, but require a lot of micro. I'd really like to hear about these terran's weak points


----------



## DoomDash

Will do my best to make a long post or find some replays with examples of tricks to abuse vs T. I'm much too tired at the moment







, so it will be much later.


----------



## swisha

just discovered BroodLords last night 0_o had 20 of em and they absolutely raped everything cept for air units


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah they are good as heck. Zerg tier 3 is unbelievable.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah they are good as heck. Zerg tier 3 is unbelievable.

I got Broodlord "rushed" once when I started playing. Bad memories.


----------



## Tchernobyl

20 broodlords? What the heck was your opponent doing in the meantime? They take forever to get to









But yes, they're awesome~


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Brood Lords are great if you can actually get them where they need to be. It's like moving furniture. They are SLOW. When I have a long-distance attack planned I've started flying corruptors to just outside the attack site, then morphing them to BL, hopefully without being spotted. It's better than trying to move the BL's all the way across the map. It takes forever and you're almost certain to be spotted way before you get close. If you fly corruptors across the map you can still call off the attack if you see something you don't like.


----------



## CHUNKYBOWSER

So I was put in the gold league and now I'm getting destroyed. D:


----------



## DoomDash

It's probably best for you to play people better than you. I can only go like 2 wins in a row before I lose in Diamond where I'm at.


----------



## Heret|c

Lol I don't know what you guys saying I always win with zergalings, cos I build a whole lot of mutas and send them to kill my opponents drones then run away, then just rinse and repeat!


----------



## GodofGrunts

Is it just me, or are the zerg way UNDER powered and the Terran way OVER powered?


----------



## DoomDash

It's not just you thinking that. Have you missed the 1.1 patch notes? 1.1 comes out next month, and Terran is nerfed pretty good.


----------



## Dom_sufc

...misread


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's not just you thinking that. Have you missed the 1.1 patch notes? 1.1 comes out next month, and Terran is nerfed pretty good.


I did see that. I'm not sure it's going to nerf the Terran enough since they are also nerfing the zerg....


----------



## DoomDash

They aren't really nerfing Zerg. That ram attack removal is making them much better at taking out buildings in reality. And negative 5 damage isnt all that much, especially when the back bone of the Terran army will now be in shambles.

3 nerfs to one arguable nerf? Doesn't compare. **** Z will have a much easier time vs Protoss now too with Zealots build time being increased.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OH for realz? I cant even deal with mass muta and speedlings as tos right now. I suck


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah my Diamond friend who plays Toss hates lings so much already.


----------



## goodtobeking

Can someone post a link to a good SC2 tube strategy video?? I just completed the campain a week or so ago, and I am wanting to try online. Would like to get a good idea on some good strategies. I hope my crappy sat internet will be alright. Thanks before hand.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*


Can someone post a link to a good SC2 tube strategy video?? I just completed the campain a week or so ago, and I am wanting to try online. Would like to get a good idea on some good strategies. I hope my crappy sat internet will be alright. Thanks before hand.


HD and Husky have some good basic tuts.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*


Can someone post a link to a good SC2 tube strategy video?? I just completed the campain a week or so ago, and I am wanting to try online. Would like to get a good idea on some good strategies. I hope my crappy sat internet will be alright. Thanks before hand.


Go on youtube and search the main SC2 commentators: Day9, HDstarcraft and Husky (not sure if HD is on youtube though... and Day9's videos are best watched on his website, but you can find the link in his youtube channel).
Day9's are pretty technical and he pauses a lot. Husky's are faster paced. Haven't watched a lot of HD's


----------



## goodtobeking

thanks for the fast answer guys, rep up. checking out huskys right now, is HD in HD?? I have slow internet.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*


thanks for the fast answer guys, rep up. checking out huskys right now, is HD in HD?? I have slow internet.


360-720p options


----------



## thiru

Which units do friendly fire?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

A nuke probably does


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*


thanks for the fast answer guys, rep up. checking out huskys right now, is HD in HD?? I have slow internet.


If you want a better place to learn the basics of sc 2, go to teamliquid.net and look around their SC2 section of the forums.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Which units do friendly fire?


anything with splash damage really, like tanks and archons


----------



## Ajax413

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hkfosho*


anything with splash damage really, like tanks and archons


That's not true. I don't believe archons do (never used them enough to know really







). I know banelings and colossus don't. Tanks are the only unit with splash that deals FF I believe.

Storm does, fungal growth doesn't, not sure on EMP, HSM, etc.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ajax413*


That's not true. I don't believe archons do (never used them enough to know really







). I know banelings and colossus don't. Tanks are the only unit with splash that deals FF I believe.

Storm does, fungal growth doesn't, not sure on EMP, HSM, etc.


yep, archons do friendly fire.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hkfosho*


yep, archons do friendly fire.


No they do not, PERIOD.

Storm, Tanks, Nukes, and thats all i can think of.


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No they do not, PERIOD.

Storm, Tanks, Nukes, and thats all i can think of.

HSM and EMP also FF.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Is a big ball of Brood Lords and Corruptors the strongest force anyone can assemble? I've been playing against AI and it seems a big BL/C ball is close to unstoppable. The corruptors can outslug any terran air unit and the brood lords are like lawnmowers. Problem is it's hard to survive long enough to assemble such a force. Terrans can get a big MMM ball together way faster than I can get a BL/C ball.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ajax413* 
That's not true. I don't believe archons do (never used them enough to know really







). I know banelings and colossus don't. Tanks are the only unit with splash that deals FF I believe.

Storm does, fungal growth doesn't, not sure on EMP, HSM, etc.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No they do not, PERIOD.

Storm, Tanks, Nukes, and thats all i can think of.

Thanks. I was wondering about banelings, they seem so effective and their AI is amazing, just watch HD's (I think it's him) banelings test.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Is a big ball of Brood Lords and Corruptors the strongest force anyone can assemble? I've been playing against AI and it seems a big BL/C ball is close to unstoppable. The corruptors can outslug any terran air unit and the brood lords are like lawnmowers. Problem is it's hard to survive long enough to assemble such a force. Terrans can get a big MMM ball together way faster than I can get a BL/C ball.

A large force of 15+ carriers or so is nigh unstoppable. Me and 2 friends did a 3v3 yesterday, one of them got killed very early in a rush. Me and the other guy decided to keep playing (3rd had to leave) so the other team had plenty of time to do whatever~.

One guy had at least 15 if not 20 or more carriers, and my teammate attacked him with 40 or so corruptors. Maybe 3 carriers died.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
A large force of 15+ carriers or so is nigh unstoppable. Me and 2 friends did a 3v3 yesterday, one of them got killed very early in a rush. Me and the other guy decided to keep playing (3rd had to leave) so the other team had plenty of time to do whatever~.

One guy had at least 15 if not 20 or more carriers, and my teammate attacked him with 40 or so corruptors. Maybe 3 carriers died.

Once you have 8+ carriers zerg cant do anything. The only thing that can stand against carriers are viking hit and run. Also BC and use yamato in each one.


----------



## thiru

I don't think I've ever gone to the point of making a carrier yet..


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
A large force of 15+ carriers or so is nigh unstoppable. Me and 2 friends did a 3v3 yesterday, one of them got killed very early in a rush. Me and the other guy decided to keep playing (3rd had to leave) so the other team had plenty of time to do whatever~.

One guy had at least 15 if not 20 or more carriers, and my teammate attacked him with 40 or so corruptors. Maybe 3 carriers died.

I don't have experience against Protoss yet. I've just been trying to learn ZvT as a Zerg player. From playing the campaign I can see how a big mass of carriers would be almost invincible.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Is a big ball of Brood Lords and Corruptors the strongest force anyone can assemble? I've been playing against AI and it seems a big BL/C ball is close to unstoppable. The corruptors can outslug any terran air unit and the brood lords are like lawnmowers. Problem is it's hard to survive long enough to assemble such a force. Terrans can get a big MMM ball together way faster than I can get a BL/C ball.

No one is really complaining about bio besides reapers at the moment. Its mech that was the problem in TvZ for people. MMM sucks vs toss as infestors pretty much rape them ( or muta with banes and infestors ).

As for all this carrier non-sense, carriers are pretty awful in SC2. I mean they are good if you completely catch someone off guard. For Zerg its so easy to counter them assuming you have a spire up. Corruptors own Carriers ( just like anything in the air really ).

A combo of Corropters, Brood Lords, with maybe 3-4 ultras thrown in is a pretty much game over force. Even if they have battle cruisers trying to kill the Ultralisks the Ultralisks will kill so much in the process. Terran specifically cannot dedicate any units to ground if Brood Lord and Corropters are out, so Ultras are pretty much free to roam and destroy.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

So is this game better than the original? How is it after a couple weeks?


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No one is really complaining about bio besides reapers at the moment. Its mech that was the problem in TvZ for people. MMM sucks vs toss as infestors pretty much rape them ( or muta with banes and infestors ).

As for all this carrier non-sense, carriers are pretty awful in SC2. I mean they are good if you completely catch someone off guard. For Zerg its so easy to counter them assuming you have a spire up. Corruptors own Carriers ( just like anything in the air really ).

A combo of Corropters, Brood Lords, with maybe 3-4 ultras thrown in is a pretty much game over force. Even if they have battle cruisers trying to kill the Ultralisks the Ultralisks will kill so much in the process. Terran specifically cannot dedicate any units to ground if Brood Lord and Corropters are out, so Ultras are pretty much free to roam and destroy.


I wouldn't say that MNM Ball is so easily countered by zerg, as you imply. A player with excellent micro can hold off many of those banelings by pushing marauders to front, spacing in a line, etc. Mutalisks get torn apart by stimmed marines with a transport ship. That said, terran mech (thor/hellion/tank) can decimate virtually any ground zerg army.

And in how many games can you get enough corruptors, broodlords, and ultras? Do you have any idea how much gas that costs?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holyherbiness* 
I wouldn't say that MNM Ball is so easily countered by zerg, as you imply. A player with excellent micro can hold off many of those banelings by pushing marauders to front, spacing in a line, etc. Mutalisks get torn apart by stimmed marines with a transport ship. That said, terran mech (thor/hellion/tank) can decimate virtually any ground zerg army.

And in how many games can you get enough corruptors, broodlords, and ultras? Do you have any idea how much gas that costs?

Happens all the time in Diamond in my games ( against me ). Diamond Zergs are very strong and they know how to hold off early mech pushes or bio balls.

And I never said it was EASY to stop bio, but certainly is much easier than mech. Infestors make it pretty easy to stop marauders or marines in their tracks and allow you to micro your banelings where they need to go. I say mutalisks assuming you have a good speedling / baneling / infestor army take out the marines, and you use the mutalisks to clean up the left over marauders after words. Very common / popular strat, and very effective. Probably the entire reason people switched to mech in the first place. Not only that, even if you can just hold them off for awhile you can tech to broodlords and pretty much kiss the Terran good bye.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes that's a gas heavy build but in my experience going mech vs Zerg is the immobility of the mech army allows for Z to generally have solid map control. This is how they can afford the gas needed to produce these units. Top Z players make hatches at expans specifically for gas ( only on gas ).

Now days I don't do bio or mech vs Z anyway.


----------



## MCBrown.CA

Just tossing in my







:

I've played through about 7 missions on the single-player campaign in the last few days and I am happy to say this is the first game that has really 'grabbed' me in a while...

It's so reminiscent of the original yet totally updated! I have yet to find a fault. Maybe I am just easy to please?


----------



## Dom_sufc

What's "bio" referring to here? Terran units that are human?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


What's "bio" referring to here? Terran units that are human?


Yes, all the biological terran units IE : Marine,Marauder. In the bottom of the screen under the units name it will say biological or armored or psi or whatever the unit is.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Yes, all the biological terran units IE : Marine,Marauder. In the bottom of the screen under the units name it will say biological or armored or psi or whatever the unit is.


Oh right, I never noticed that detail. Have a rep


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


Oh right, I never noticed that detail. Have a rep










Hurray, 36 ;D


----------



## NrGx

If you guys want something added to the first post, could you please PM me with the links? Thanks.


----------



## Heret|c

All people on the forum crying how zerg is underpowered, this is giong to last for the next 2 years until the Heart of the Swarm comes out, Blizz is notorious for taking forever to fix balance, just look how OP'ed have pallies in WoW been for the past 2 years.

And then if a lot of people cry they release a tiny nerf that doesn't do anything, like saying "oh ok now it takes you 5 seconds longer to create reaper", lol like 5 seconds going to make that huge of a difference.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

err waht?

terran seem op. zerg and tos seem normal.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


just look how OP'ed have pallies in WoW been for the past 2 years.


Paladins have not been overpowered in WoW since patch 3.0.


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


err waht?

terran seem op. zerg and tos seem normal.


Try again. Terran/Protoss are equal, Zerg is UP.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


All people on the forum crying how zerg is underpowered, this is giong to last for the next 2 years until the Heart of the Swarm comes out, Blizz is notorious for taking forever to fix balance, just look how OP'ed have pallies in WoW been for the past 2 years.

And then if a lot of people cry they release a tiny nerf that doesn't do anything, like saying "oh ok now it takes you 5 seconds longer to create reaper",
lol like 5 seconds going to make that huge of a difference.


..you sir are blind then. Terran got hit by *multiple* nerfs (battlecruiser, though that's lol, reapers and tanks), and they'll keep on balancing things. Not patching things on a game this hyped and used in many tournaments would be the height of stupidity.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


As for all this carrier non-sense, carriers are pretty awful in SC2. I mean they are good if you completely catch someone off guard. For Zerg its so easy to counter them assuming you have a spire up. Corruptors own Carriers ( just like anything in the air really ).


Read my previous statement~ the guy had an overwhelming force of carriers (as in, pretty much only 2 bases or so worth of drones, then carriers). With that many, they tore about 30-40 corruptors to shreds









Individually or in more normal numbers yes, they're easily counterable, but with that many, they eat things alive


----------



## Akhen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


All people on the forum crying how zerg is underpowered, this is giong to last for the next 2 years until the Heart of the Swarm comes out, Blizz is notorious for taking forever to fix balance, just look how OP'ed have pallies in WoW been for the past 2 years.

And then if a lot of people cry they release a tiny nerf that doesn't do anything, like saying "oh ok now it takes you 5 seconds longer to create reaper", lol like 5 seconds going to make that huge of a difference.


Only early game honestly, they become the most powerful race late game.

I also know they usually take forever but sc2 is a whole different game than WoW, they dont have to make changes to fix a game that has both PVP and PVE. So lets hope its a bit quicker, War3 was slow but nothing like WoW.


----------



## Omnimancer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


err waht?

terran seem op. zerg and tos seem normal.


zerp is p. up


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


Oh right, I never noticed that detail. Have a rep










That info's also really useful for deciding what to use to counter what.

For instance, Siege tanks are now really good vs things like roaches and marauders, because they do extra damage vs armored units.

If you mouse over a selected unit's attack icon, it'll tell you how much damage it does, and if it does any extra vs a certain type of unit.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Akhen*


Only early game honestly, they become the most powerful race late game.

I also know they usually take forever but sc2 is a whole different game than WoW, they dont have to make changes to fix a game that has both PVP and PVE. So lets hope its a bit quicker, War3 was slow but nothing like WoW.


most powerful late game? how so?


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


most powerful late game? how so?











Have you not been paying attention? broodwings + corrupters pretty much rape everything so long as you micro semi decently.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts*


Have you not been paying attention? broodwings + corrupters pretty much rape everything so long as you micro semi decently.


Broodlods are so slow you can snipe them easily from afar with vikings, amongst other things. Corruptors admittedly take somewhat more to kill, but they're far from being the invincible juggernauts described here.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Akhen*


Only early game honestly, they become the most powerful race late game.

I also know they usually take forever but sc2 is a whole different game than WoW, they dont have to make changes to fix a game that has both PVP and PVE. So lets hope its a bit quicker, War3 was slow but nothing like WoW.


actually stalkers/colossi ball will own zerg 8/10 in late game


----------



## Akhen

Corruptors will easy kill colossus with some proper micro and add a couple brood lords and stalkers will not have it easy. Add the range advantage (with upgrades) of hydra and you have a fairly potent combination.

Point is Zerg has a lot to work with late game and not much early game.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Agreed on the early game comment. Late game can be good yes, but most games rarely last long enough for you to even get to that point (what with broodlords taking 10,000 years to tech to~







)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Read my previous statement~ the guy had an overwhelming force of carriers (as in, pretty much only 2 bases or so worth of drones, then carriers). With that many, they tore about 30-40 corruptors to shreds









Individually or in more normal numbers yes, they're easily counterable, but with that many, they eat things alive










Well if you let people get that many carriers I think :

A) you have not scouted well enough

B) you let him build too long with out hitting.

I mean, there really is no good excuse for letting a guy mass carrriers, as they are super expensive and hard to make a ton.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well if you let people get that many carriers I think :

A) you have not scouted well enough

B) you let him build too long with out hitting.

I mean, there really is no good excuse for letting a guy mass carrriers, as they are super expensive and hard to make a ton.


as i said, you didn't read the post where I mentioned this









3v3, one teammate got cannon rushed, left, me and remaining other (both zerg) decide to tough it out, but we kept getting hemmed in. So they had free reign to do whatever the hell they wanted


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Akhen*


Corruptors will easy kill colossus with some proper micro and add a couple brood lords and stalkers will not have it easy. Add the range advantage (with upgrades) of hydra and you have a fairly potent combination.

Point is Zerg has a lot to work with late game and not much early game.


Focus firing blink stalkers also easily kill corrupters. Keep the colossi to kill broodlings/hydras in the back to make it harder for corrupters to damage them before getting wiped by stalkers. Sentry force field also works great to limit the effect of broodlings.

Id take a stalkers/colossi/sentry army over a hydra/brood lord/corrupter army any day


----------



## Heret|c

O.K. now let's stop pretending everyone is equal just tell me the strongest strategy


----------



## Omnimancer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


O.K. now let's stop pretending everyone is equal just tell me the strongest strategy










MMM with Terran is pretty deadly. Terran needs to get nerfed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Omnimancer*


MMM with Terran is pretty deadly. Terran needs to get nerfed.


Maybe if they buff mech again. MMM is not bad at all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Id take a stalkers/colossi/sentry army over a hydra/brood lord/corrupter army any day


Then you'd lose lol







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Then you'd lose lol







.












Once the stalkers focus down all the corrupters, its over. If you send your corrupters in for my colossi, i move them back and let them use their range and they still can take down the hydras/broodlings from that distance. Id then use sentries to block the broodlings from surrounding my stalkers. Sending the corrupters in would put them above all the stalkers focusing them down. I will have my stalkers in 2 control groups each focusing down a corrupter with a single shot.


----------



## thiru

How about you guys put it to the test


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 









Once the stalkers focus down all the corrupters, its over. If you send your corrupters in for my colossi, i move them back and let them use their range and they still can take down the hydras/broodlings from that distance. Id then use sentries to block the broodlings from surrounding my stalkers. Sending the corrupters in would put them above all the stalkers focusing them down. I will have my stalkers in 2 control groups each focusing down a corrupter with a single shot.

Plus throw an a few ultras in that mix, and they will soak up so much damage and destroy so many armored units that you'll never have the time to target corropters. I was the one who said Ultra/BroodLord/Corropter is the ultimate Z combo, not Hydra.

If you guys want to try out 1.1 you can play it in the new map tester made to mimic 1.1!
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/mock-...ter-release-2/


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Plus throw an a few ultras in that mix, and they will soak up so much damage and destroy so many armored units that you'll never have the time to target corropters. I was the one who said Ultra/BroodLord/Corropter is the ultimate Z combo, not Hydra.

If you guys want to try out 1.1 you can play it in the new map tester made to mimic 1.1!
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/mock-...ter-release-2/

Ah then id go with stalker/immortal


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Ah then id go with stalker/immortal

Either way tier 3 Z > Tier 3 P or T. Not saying it matters though. But I think you should have added templars to your list at least if you see corropters. Feedback ftw.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Either way tier 3 Z > Tier 3 P or T. Not saying it matters though. But I think you should have added templars to your list at least if you see corropters. Feedback ftw.

true but we are comparing unit composition vs unit composition and I still think stalker/immortal > ultra/brood lord

no need for templars since i wont be going air/colossus if I see ultras/brood lords


----------



## Wishmaker

Who agrees with the Patch changes coming in september??


----------



## Omnimancer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Who agrees with the Patch changes coming in september??

The one where siege tanks are getting nerfed? It's not patching some of the more important issues and its nerfing unnecessary stuff imo


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Omnimancer* 
The one where siege tanks are getting nerfed? It's not patching some of the more important issues and its nerfing unnecessary stuff imo

I feel this way. Thanks Blizzard for encouraging MORE bio.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Can't wait for 6 pool to be even more effective vs protoss now since it takes an additional 5 seconds just to get out one zealot.


----------



## DoomDash

I think there will be no other option but to Chrono boost the first Zealot every time. You used to be able to get away with Chrono boosting your econ first.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I have a hard time believing Blizzard actually playtested the ZvT scenarios in "Play vs. AI" on very hard or insane difficulties. I've spent the last few days playing those as Z and they are just absolutely impossible if the map allows the Terrans to wall themselves in early. The computer is super agressive and mercilessly exploits every disparity in the strength between early tiers of Zerg and Terran. They have you back on your heels almost immediately and then finish you with a huge MMM ball with ravens to detect burrowed banelings and 3 trailing siege tanks to knock down buildings. The bastards even move Hellions up front as soon as they see zerglings coming. The siege tanks set up behind the infantry and it's all over. You never even get to tier 3. You have only a little time in tier 2. IMO Blizzard should have invested a lot more time in playtesting before releasing SC2.


----------



## thiru

You're complaining about an _insane_ difficulty AI?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're complaining about an _insane_ difficulty AI?


Yeah. Very hard difficulty ain't much better. I don't know why Blizzard would include these scenarios if they're unplayable, but that does appear to be the case.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Yeah. Very hard difficulty ain't much better. I don't know why Blizzard would include these scenarios if they're unplayable, but that does appear to be the case.

Well maybe you're not doing something right, post a replay or something. I wouldn't know, I can't play zerg for crap.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I have a hard time believing Blizzard actually playtested the ZvT scenarios in "Play vs. AI" on very hard or insane difficulties. I've spent the last few days playing those as Z and they are just absolutely impossible if the map allows the Terrans to wall themselves in early. The computer is super agressive and mercilessly exploits every disparity in the strength between early tiers of Zerg and Terran. They have you back on your heels almost immediately and then finish you with a huge MMM ball with ravens to detect burrowed banelings and 3 trailing siege tanks to knock down buildings. The bastards even move Hellions up front as soon as they see zerglings coming. The siege tanks set up behind the infantry and it's all over. You never even get to tier 3. You have only a little time in tier 2. IMO Blizzard should have invested a lot more time in playtesting before releasing SC2.


They have, but obviously they feel it's somewhat balanced.

No doubt terran op in early and zerg are op with t3 late.

and don't get me started regarding muta speedlings on some maps.


----------



## ZainyAntics

Jesus... I forgot I made this thread and it's already at 100 pages D: D: D:

lol.

Go me.


----------



## ZainyAntics

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I have a hard time believing Blizzard actually playtested the ZvT scenarios in "Play vs. AI" on very hard or insane difficulties. I've spent the last few days playing those as Z and they are just absolutely impossible if the map allows the Terrans to wall themselves in early. The computer is super agressive and mercilessly exploits every disparity in the strength between early tiers of Zerg and Terran. They have you back on your heels almost immediately and then finish you with a huge MMM ball with ravens to detect burrowed banelings and 3 trailing siege tanks to knock down buildings. The bastards even move Hellions up front as soon as they see zerglings coming. The siege tanks set up behind the infantry and it's all over. You never even get to tier 3. You have only a little time in tier 2. IMO Blizzard should have invested a lot more time in playtesting before releasing SC2.


Insane AI actually has advantages in mineral production (I believe they get 8 or 10 minerals) and building times are reduced.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Maybe if they buff mech again. MMM is not bad at all.


Lol, Banelings and Infestors or Hightemplars FTW

Also, regarding Terran OP'ness. I read somewhere that tanks are getting a huge nerf going from 50 Damage to 30, so they can't 1 shot Zerglings anymore.

Don't quote me on this though, I just read it somewhere lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


They have an emp ability that heavily damages shields which is devastating vs a lot of toss units. Don't know what the ability is called since I don't play terran :/


It's called... EMP lol


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics*


Insane AI actually has advantages in mineral production (I believe they get 8 or 10 minerals) and building times are reduced.

Lol, Banelings and Infestors or Hightemplars FTW

Also, regarding Terran OP'ness. I read somewhere that tanks are getting a huge nerf going from 50 Damage to 30, so they can't 1 shot Zerglings anymore.

Don't quote me on this though, I just read it somewhere lol

It's called... EMP lol










it's down to 35 +15 to armored, so they can still one shot zerglings. Unless the zerglings get a + armor upgrade, but a single +attack upgrade to the tanks can nullify all 3 zerg armor upgrades~


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


true but we are comparing unit composition vs unit composition and I still think stalker/immortal > ultra/brood lord

no need for templars since i wont be going air/colossus if I see ultras/brood lords


Which league are you in? You seem to assume people just go all-in on 1 or 2 unit types. There is no reason to not have storm later on in the game. Any decent Zerg is going to have infestors and fungal growth will nullify blink and allow the broodlords to basically rape your army..

If the Zerg sees no colossus\emplars the next wave of units you'll see will be hydras and you'll have no answer.. Strange thought process.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well maybe you're not doing something right, post a replay or something. I wouldn't know, I can't play zerg for crap.


Nah, I think I'm playing fine, this is just ridiculously hard. I finally just barely beat back the last Terran attack and made it into tier 3. It took a ton of saves. Zerg can't make any mistakes on very hard difficulty, so you have to save constantly. The thing that finally worked was the speed upgrade for banelings. It makes a big difference in their ability to penetrate infantry fire. It's a pretty good upgrade. I wish I'd tried it sooner. Burrowed banelings weren't working anymore because the Terrans had started bringing ravens to spot them. The speedbanelings bought me just enough time to finish building three brood lords and save my base. One of my hatcheries was down to 21 hit points out of 1250. All the spine crawlers were destroyed, and all my zerglings too.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


Which league are you in? You seem to assume people just go all-in on 1 or 2 unit types. There is no reason to not have storm later on in the game. Any decent Zerg is going to have infestors and fungal growth will nullify blink and allow the broodlords to basically rape your army..

If the Zerg sees no colossus\emplars the next wave of units you'll see will be hydras and you'll have no answer.. Strange thought process.


^ This


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I have a hard time believing Blizzard actually playtested the ZvT scenarios in "Play vs. AI" on very hard or insane difficulties. I've spent the last few days playing those as Z and they are just absolutely impossible if the map allows the Terrans to wall themselves in early. The computer is super agressive and mercilessly exploits every disparity in the strength between early tiers of Zerg and Terran. They have you back on your heels almost immediately and then finish you with a huge MMM ball with ravens to detect burrowed banelings and 3 trailing siege tanks to knock down buildings. The bastards even move Hellions up front as soon as they see zerglings coming. The siege tanks set up behind the infantry and it's all over. You never even get to tier 3. You have only a little time in tier 2. IMO Blizzard should have invested a lot more time in playtesting before releasing SC2.

I seem to breeze through insane ai as long as I cheese them w/ rushes early game. It is virtually impossible to defeat an insane ai 1v1 without doing any cheesy tactics like cannon rush, 6pool rush, bunker rush, CC lift to an island, etc. Also, I'm wondering why you're worried about ZvT scenarios in insane ai... are you trying to get the achievements for a specific insane ai matchup? Because I don't recall having to play a ZvT scenario, although it is very much doable.

The insane ai are given extra minerals per mine as well as faster building time, and an apm of over 5000. Yes, of course they're OP UNLESS you can take advantage of their early game.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Akhen* 
Corruptors will easy kill colossus with some proper micro and add a couple brood lords and stalkers will not have it easy. Add the range advantage (with upgrades) of hydra and you have a fairly potent combination.

*Point is Zerg has a lot to work with late game and not much early game.*

Sadly, that's not the case in ZvT. reaper proxies are incredibly OP and I think it'll still be a viable strategy by many terrans even after the upcoming patch. Zerg is a reactionary race, and with the numerous openings that terran has atm with limited scouting abilities for zerg as a good terran will wall off and snipe your overlord as soon as he see's it trying to get inside the base, it just seems so unbalanced in ZvT scenarios.

And if you've played in high-level plat/mid-level diamond league, you'd know that broodlords/corruptor composition is rarely seen as the game wouldn't even be up to that point.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
Sadly, that's not the case in ZvT. reaper proxies are incredibly OP and I think it'll still be a viable strategy by many terrans even after the upcoming patch. Zerg is a reactionary race, and with the numerous openings that terran has atm with limited scouting abilities for zerg as a good terran will wall off and snipe your overlord as soon as he see's it trying to get inside the base, it just seems so unbalanced in ZvT scenarios.

And if you've played in high-level plat/mid-level diamond league, you'd know that broodlords/corruptor composition is rarely seen as the game wouldn't even be up to that point.

Are you kidding me? I see broodlord corropter all the damn time, and ultras even more.

TvZ is not as easy as you guys make it seem FOR real. Who cares what the pros say, most people aren't even remotely at their level. Take it from a 600~ Diamond Terran player that its a tough match up on both sides. TvZ is my most difficult match up. I beat Terran and Protoss players way more often.

I understand that Z has weak points early and Terran has many options, but a good Z player would have adapted by now period. I rarely beat out Z in the early game like I used before the Z players learned how to deal with it. It's also very map dependent.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you kidding me? I see broodlord corropter all the damn time, and ultras even more.

TvZ is not as easy as you guys make it seem FOR real. Who cares what the pros say, most people aren't even remotely at their level. Take it from a 600~ Diamond Terran player that its a tough match up on both sides. TvZ is my most difficult match up. I beat Terran and Protoss players way more often.

I understand that Z has weak points early and Terran has many options, but a good Z player would have adapted by now period. I rarely beat out Z in the early game like I used before the Z players learned how to deal with it. It's also very map dependent.

The true balance of the game is shown by the best of the best. If you look at all the TvZ matches in tournament games, you'd know that none of those games involve a broodlord/corruptor composition.

And speaking of good zerg players, pretty much all the top zerg players atm are agreeing with the fact that terran is OP... some of them are even considering switching race (Dimaga, sheth). Idra, one of the best zerg players in North America AND South Korea, is notoriously known for bming the hell out of terran players, and I don't blame him.

And I never said that terrans win automatically in early games vs zergs, but the potential early harass like repear rush, reactor hellions, banshee rush, and various other effective openings that can be hidden very well, all add up to an economical advantage in the long-run


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
The true balance of the game is shown by the best of the best. If you look at all the TvZ matches in tournament games, you'd know that none of those games involve a broodlord/corruptor composition.

And speaking of good zerg players, pretty much all the top zerg players atm are agreeing with the fact that terran is OP... some of them are even considering switching race (Dimaga, sheth). Idra, one of the best zerg players in North America AND South Korea, is notoriously known for bming the hell out of terran players, and I don't blame him.

And I never said that terrans win automatically in early games vs zergs, but the potential early harass like repear rush, reactor hellions, banshee rush, and various other effective openings that can be hidden very well, all add up to an economical advantage in the long-run

First off, never listen to idrA. When have you ever see him actually use his brain for anything beyond macro? He himself admits he is too stubborn to do things to win at times. TLO is a top player and he's been saying for ages that TvZ is fine... in fact he will pick Z vs T's a lot of the times to prove his point ( even in big tournaments ). Top players can say what they like but the fact is, until they switch over and show how much easier it is with Terran there words are pretty meaningless. You think Morrow won vs idrA because Terran is OP? Don't think so. Artosis himself says Morrows terran is just plain sick, and idrA hadn't had the most practice vs that build ( reapers ). Diamaga also TRAINED morrow exactly how to use that reaper build to beat idrA. Not only that, but idrA played like crap, and Diamaga himself played much better vs morrow.

If you look at a lot of the tournament results as whole, its a pretty even mixture of winnings. You got Huk winning tournaments with Toss over here, you got idrA winning some tournaments, White-Ra winning some tournaments, Tester winning a whole bunch of tournaments. It's not like Terran is the only one winning, or even winning THAT much more than others. Maybe if Z's didn't whine and complain so much they would have more players to show how good Zerg is. Sorry if you have 180,000 T players, 190,000 P players, and 100,000 Z players obviously there will be more T and P players dominating.

Now, I'm not saying the game IS balanced, I'm saying it's not so badly balanced that its as big of a deal as others make it out to be, especially Platinum players and below. They need to just keep practicing before they let some excuse like balance prevent them from getting better.

And I did see plenty of tournament matches with Ultras, that's for sure.


----------



## Markisa

Terren is so terribly imbalanced its stupid. End of discussion. MM me daily.

To elaborate, I'm specificly upset with my main race I like to play being Protoss, I can't go anywhere in 1v1 plat bracket atm. EVERYBODY is playing Terren, their base unit [Marines] counter all of my air units economicly and militarily, being the ONLY mineral unit that can attack air units. Then their Marauders counter my Stalkers, my Zealots (whole early game) and they will tear a Colossus apart. . so how do I win? Their Cosmat will destroy my Dark Templar. . if I could EVER make it there which I couldn't vs. a MM, and next patch my Zealots will be farther nerfed . . GG for toss.


----------



## DoomDash

L2P. That's all I'm going to say.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm pretty convinced that until Terran is removed from the game this whining will never end. Makes me sad. Very few whiners in SC1/BW, I wonder where they all came from?


----------



## Markisa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
L2P. That's all I'm going to say.

Really? Thanks for that informative help, I obviously hacked my way to Platinum league 1v1, maybe even got carried by my partner.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Markisa* 
Really? Thanks for that informative help, I obviously hacked my way to Platinum league 1v1, maybe even got carried by my partner.

You'd probably be in Diamond if didn't mentally hold yourself back with balance issues that are far from proven with such a young game.


----------



## Mach 5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm pretty convinced that until Terran is removed from the game this whining will never end. Makes me sad. Very few whiners in SC1/BW, I wonder where they all came from?

WC3.

I just think its funny that so many people here think its a case of building the right units to counter the enemy, the beauty of starcraft is that it has NEVER been like that. There is no rock>paper>scissors tech tree like almost every other RTS. Starcraft is about scouting, planning, timing and micro - In that order.

You can have the perfect unit comp to counter your opponents army, but if they straightup out micro and out manoever you, you wont stand a chance.


----------



## Dom_sufc

I just watched an awesome game.


You Tube


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
First off, never listen to idrA. When have you ever see him actually use his brain for anything beyond macro? He himself admits he is too stubborn to do things to win at times. TLO is a top player and he's been saying for ages that TvZ is fine... in fact he will pick Z vs T's a lot of the times to prove his point ( even in big tournaments ). Top players can say what they like but the fact is, until they switch over and show how much easier it is with Terran there words are pretty meaningless. You think Morrow won vs idrA because Terran is OP? Don't think so. Artosis himself says Morrows terran is just plain sick, and idrA hadn't had the most practice vs that build ( reapers ). Diamaga also TRAINED morrow exactly how to use that reaper build to beat idrA. Not only that, but idrA played like crap, and Diamaga himself played much better vs morrow.

If you look at a lot of the tournament results as whole, its a pretty even mixture of winnings. You got Huk winning tournaments with Toss over here, you got idrA winning some tournaments, White-Ra winning some tournaments, Tester winning a whole bunch of tournaments. It's not like Terran is the only one winning, or even winning THAT much more than others. Maybe if Z's didn't whine and complain so much they would have more players to show how good Zerg is. Sorry if you have 180,000 T players, 190,000 P players, and 100,000 Z players obviously there will be more T and P players dominating.

Now, I'm not saying the game IS balanced, I'm saying it's not so badly balanced that its as big of a deal as others make it out to be, especially Platinum players and below. They need to just keep practicing before they let some excuse like balance prevent them from getting better.

And I did see plenty of tournament matches with Ultras, that's for sure.

If it really bothers you to say that TvZ is imbalanced, i'll say it in a different way then: It is much more difficult to play the zerg race rather than the terran race, even for those who are already experienced with the game. Happy?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/693082

Top 20:

9 Protoss
8 Terran
3 Zerg

Total:

92 Terran
63 Protoss
38 Zerg
7 Random

These get updated weekly, so you won't have to worry about it being outdated. This pretty much shows you what the balance issue is like atm.

And as much as I dislike idra as a player, I think you're underestimating his skill level. To say that he can't do anything other than macro makes you look pretty stupid, no offense.

As for TLO, he originally started out as a random player, so he already had the basic knowledge of all the races. He switched to terran months ago... I'm not sure where you're getting your sources from but he is strictly a terran player (hmm i wonder why). Morrow beat Idra because he abused the imbalance like no other. Idra had his flaws in that game as well, but that just shows how there's so little room for mistakes in a zerg player to have a chance against a terran player.

And as for tournaments, the majority of the qualifiers are terrans, just look at the upcoming GSL tournament.

Quote:

Sorry if you have 180,000 T players, 190,000 P players, and 100,000 Z players obviously there will be more T and P players dominating.
and that's exactly my point, people are more inclined to play terran because of the balance issues.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I just watched an awesome game.

That was a good one.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
If it really bothers you to say that TvZ is imbalanced, i'll say it in a different way then: It is much more difficult to play the zerg race rather than the terran race, even for those who are already experienced with the game. Happy?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/693082

Top 20:

9 Protoss
8 Terran
3 Zerg

Total:

92 Terran
63 Protoss
38 Zerg
7 Random

These get updated weekly, so you won't have to worry about it being outdated. This pretty much shows you what the balance issue is like atm.

And as much as I dislike idra as a player, I think you're underestimating his skill level. To say that he can't do anything other than macro makes you look pretty stupid, no offense.

As for TLO, he originally started out as a random player, so he already had the basic knowledge of all the races. He switched to terran months ago... I'm not sure where you're getting your sources from but he is strictly a terran player (hmm i wonder why). Morrow beat Idra because he abused the imbalance like no other. Idra had his flaws in that game as well, but that just shows how there's so little room for mistakes in a zerg player to have a chance against a terran player.

And as for tournaments, the majority of the qualifiers are terrans, just look at the upcoming GSL tournament.

and that's exactly my point, people are more inclined to play terran because of the balance issues.

OK it's nice to see you using data with out telling the entire story. What did I say ? I said there are literally almost 2x the amount of Terran players and Protoss players than Zerg. So if you double the amount of Zerg players those top 200 statistics get much much closer. You also don't mention that if you look at statistics as a whole that there are actually more Z players in Diamond than Terran per player. ( Search stats on TL.net ).

Your comments on my comments on idrA again, is you not actually looking at what I said. I don't question idrA's skill even remotely, but he certainly is one of the least creative players around. Watch his games, tell me how often he takes advantage of overlord drops, nydus worms, ect. Very very very rarely. In fact I can probably link you to the last time he dropped someone in beta ( and it worked I might add ). I'm also telling you what he says about himself, that is loses / his biggest weakness is his stubbornness. It's apparent that he wants to play one way, and make that work at all costs. I have no doubts that he could be an even BETTER player if he would get over his stubbornness. I never ever said he can't do anything but macro....

Your comment on TLO, is partly true. Yes he plays Terran now, I know this, I said this. I'm telling you that he's picked ZvT in tournaments and high level games to prove his point. He even challenged players publically on teamliquid to show the power of Z.

If you think Morrow doesn't deserve that win, I don't know what to tell you. You apparently know everything and you know much more than the high level players that do think he deserved it and have mucho respect for him.

We can argue paper craft all day if you'd like. I played Terran when they were considered AWFUL in the beginning of beta, and you didn't hear any complaints from me. I just kept on trucking, and let new strats develop. It's still too early to tell. Remember in SC1 when Terran was considered the worst for years? Then boxer comes along and re-invents the game. SCII will not be any different.

We'll see what happens in the next patch. I'm not really against it or for it...


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
That was a good one.

I couldn't believe the amount of multi-tasking. I've seen some great games on those Channels, but having both players using all the expos AND fighting on multiple fronts... Brilliant.

Can't help but think that the Terran player should have done a tech switch. I'm not really qualified enough to make those statements, though.


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
If it really bothers you to say that TvZ is imbalanced, i'll say it in a different way then: It is much more difficult to play the zerg race rather than the terran race, even for those who are already experienced with the game. Happy?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/693082

Top 20:

9 Protoss
8 Terran
3 Zerg

Total:

92 Terran
63 Protoss
38 Zerg
7 Random

These get updated weekly, so you won't have to worry about it being outdated. This pretty much shows you what the balance issue is like atm.

And as much as I dislike idra as a player, I think you're underestimating his skill level. To say that he can't do anything other than macro makes you look pretty stupid, no offense.

As for TLO, he originally started out as a random player, so he already had the basic knowledge of all the races. He switched to terran months ago... I'm not sure where you're getting your sources from but he is strictly a terran player (hmm i wonder why). Morrow beat Idra because he abused the imbalance like no other. Idra had his flaws in that game as well, but that just shows how there's so little room for mistakes in a zerg player to have a chance against a terran player.

And as for tournaments, the majority of the qualifiers are terrans, just look at the upcoming GSL tournament.

and that's exactly my point, people are more inclined to play terran because of the balance issues.

The top 200 doesn't prove that Terran is overpowered. Why can't these Terran players just be better players?

Idra is godly but he has his flaws. He can be very stubborn with his build and unit composition but I think he's been improving on that.

TLO is not solely a Terran player. I have seen him play Zerg quite a few times in series matches if his opponents lets him. Also, TLO chose to play Terran way before all this overpower talk. He switch to Terran right after the HDH Tournament. I think this when Zerg was the race to be with the big hydra plays.

I think the reason for the majority of players being Terran is because its supposed to be the "easy" race to learn. When I showed my friend Zerg, he was there's no way I track of that. I think this would be the mindset for most new players when they see Zerg.

I don't think TvZ is that bad players would switch races but what do I know, I'm just a toss player. Just glad to be out of all the void ray "overpower" talk. I'm just a happy camper until the next patch comes out. The zealot nerf is going to be quite annoying. Might end up saying Terran is op too haha!


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
OK it's nice to see you using data with out telling the entire story. What did I say ? I said there are literally almost 2x the amount of Terran players and Protoss players than Zerg. So if you double the amount of Zerg players those top 200 statistics get much much closer. You also don't mention that if you look at statistics as a whole that there are actually more Z players in Diamond than Terran per player. ( Search stats on TL.net ).

Your comments on my comments on idrA again, is you not actually looking at what I said. I don't question idrA's skill even remotely, but he certainly is one of the least creative players around. Watch his games, tell me how often he takes advantage of overlord drops, nydus worms, ect. Very very very rarely. In fact I can probably link you to the last time he dropped someone in beta ( and it worked I might add ). I'm also telling you what he says about himself, that is loses / his biggest weakness is his stubbornness. It's apparent that he wants to play one way, and make that work at all costs. I have no doubts that he could be an even BETTER player if he would get over his stubbornness. I never ever said he can't do anything but macro....

Your comment on TLO, is partly true. Yes he plays Terran now, I know this, I said this. I'm telling you that he's picked ZvT in tournaments and high level games to prove his point. He even challenged players publically on teamliquid to show the power of Z.

If you think Morrow doesn't deserve that win, I don't know what to tell you. You apparently know everything and you know much more than the high level players that do think he deserved it and have mucho respect for him.

We can argue paper craft all day if you'd like. I played Terran when they were considered AWFUL in the beginning of beta, and you didn't hear any complaints from me. I just kept on trucking, and let new strats develop. It's still too early to tell. Remember in SC1 when Terran was considered the worst for years? Then boxer comes along and re-invents the game. SCII will not be any different.

We'll see what happens in the next patch. I'm not really against it or for it...

I'll take your word for it that there are more zerg players than terran players in the diamond league, but the true balance of a game is shown by the best players. There are tons of players in diamond that aren't even that good, many of them cheesing their way through plat. And once again, the reason why there are twice as many terran and protoss players as zerg is because zerg is the harder race to play and adjust to in the current shape of balance, thus ppl are less comfortable with choosing zerg as their race (this is the point I'm trying to make).

It may seem really easy for you to just shout out possible strats for zergs against terrans, but it really isn't... trust me. a nydus can be easily stopped by any decent terran who spread their depots/buildings on the edges. Overlord drops are viable, but the amount of resources and time needed for it makes it an unlikable choice, not to mention that it is fairly easy to defend against as a lot of terrans tend to build sensor towers in mid/late-game TvZ.

TLO played zerg temporarily, but that argument isn't really helping anything because he wasn't very successful as a zerg player.

As for morrow, I'm not the only one saying that it was the imbalance issue that favored him to win. There are numerous TLers who agree that his style of play that game was pretty abusive (5rax reaper... like really?) and even after idra scouted it with his overlord, he still got stomped over because rauders simply demolish roaches.

Yeah, boxer did bring up a lot of new aspects for terran, but how long ago was that? With the attention that blizzard is getting today, and with the amount of player-base that SC2 has, you can only wait so long until you realize that something's wrong with the balance issue, rather than thinking that the players are not creative enough. Even the players from Korea are commenting on the balance issues, saying that terran is the strongest race atm.

You can call it paper craft, i dont care. This is an RTS game, and luck is part of the game. If I happened to go with the PERFECT strategy counter blindly, such as going 6 pool lings without knowing that the opponent FE'd, of course I'm going to win... it's just like rock paper scissors. But if i draw paper and the opponent draws rock, and I still can't win, well then we've got some problems







.


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg is the most unique out of the bunch, but I wouldn't say hardest. They were probably my best race naturally personally. I can understand why people are hesitant to play them because of how different they are than Terran and Protoss, but I really don't believe they are even remotely bad. As time goes on I think that things will even out and Zerg will become more popular. I'm guessing during heart of the swarm TBH.

TLO still plays Zerg, and he can still be competitive with them. He picks his race on whats best suited for him ( him saying that ). The entire reason he stopped playing random was because his Protoss was awful. I'm not saying he is going to pick Zerg all the time, because if he feels T is best for him then there is no reason for him to pick Z anymore beyond proving his point ( That TvZ is balanced ).

Again, I'm not claiming it's balanced or its imbalanced, I just think it's too soon to tell.

I never said Nydus worms and overlords will always do the trick, but I've watched plenty of games that idrA has lost that they would have worked. He doesn't use all the tools in his belt when sometimes some of the tools are perfect for the job. He an amazing player, but far from his true potential. Why don't you go back and look at some of his games and look for weak points instead of just giving him a free pass because he is a top player. I can promise you you'll find many holes.

Your comments about Diamond players who don't belong there can be said about any of the races really. Some people do nothing but cheese and make it into Diamond, regardless of race. I actually have two accounts and I play random ( but mainly Zerg ) on my second account. It doesn't matter what race I'm playing I'd be in Diamond, and I've never felt any huge advantage with any of the races over the others.

And why are we even arguing? The game is changed in a few weeks.


----------



## kilrbe3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 

As for morrow, I'm not the only one saying that it was the imbalance issue that favored him to win. There are numerous TLers who agree that his style of play that game was pretty abusive (5rax reaper... like really?) and even after idra scouted it with his overlord, he still got stomped over because rauders simply demolish roaches.


Can you link me to that Replay? Is it on YT?


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg is the most unique out of the bunch, but I wouldn't say hardest. They were probably my best race naturally personally. I can understand why people are hesitant to play them because of how different they are than Terran and Protoss, but I really don't believe they are even remotely bad. As time goes on I think that things will even out and Zerg will become more popular. I'm guessing during heart of the swarm TBH.

TLO still plays Zerg, and he can still be competitive with them. He picks his race on whats best suited for him ( him saying that ). The entire reason he stopped playing random was because his Protoss was awful. I'm not saying he is going to pick Zerg all the time, because if he feels T is best for him then there is no reason for him to pick Z anymore beyond proving his point ( That TvZ is balanced ).

Again, I'm not claiming it's balanced or its imbalanced, I just think it's too soon to tell.

I never said Nydus worms and overlords will always do the trick, but I've watched plenty of games that idrA has lost that they would have worked. He doesn't use all the tools in his belt when sometimes some of the tools are perfect for the job. He an amazing player, but far from his true potential. Why don't you go back and look at some of his games and look for weak points instead of just giving him a free pass because he is a top player. I can promise you you'll find many holes.

Your comments about Diamond players who don't belong there can be said about any of the races really. Some people do nothing but cheese and make it into Diamond, regardless of race. I actually have two accounts and I play random ( but mainly Zerg ) on my second account. It doesn't matter what race I'm playing I'd be in Diamond, and I've never felt any huge advantage with any of the races over the others.

And why are we even arguing? The game is changed in a few weeks.

Don't take argument like it's a bad thing, this IS just a game at the end of the day and it helps us understand our own opinion. But I feel for those who play in higher competitive matches, losing due to balance issues while their sponsors and income is at stake. You know something's up with the balance when complaints about terran are not just from a specific league/division of players, but even the best players.

I doubt I'll be able to change your mind regarding terran being the stronger race, but that's the way things go with these things. Most sc gamers perceive their own races in a different way when it comes to the balance issues.

And for the record, I don't think think idra is the best player in the world, let alone the best zerg player; that title would have to go to cool.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRtDwm2MlI

oh wow, I didn't realize morrow used 5rax repear in other games too... I was talking about this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=b-r4...eature=related


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, he does it all of his games vs idrA. He loses one game because he kinda sways away from his build. Game one though, I mean really, idrA left prematurely if you ask me. Also a spine crawler with 1 queen dedicated to transfusion goes a very long way vs reapers.

Anyway I honestly don't care if they nerf the crap out of Terran. The more the merrier. I love playing the underdog, and I'll love when all the losers complaining about balance issues shut up. I'm not saying all of them, but most of them. Only reason I play Terran is because they are by far the coolest race. Nothing beats Siege tanks, nukes, gaint mechs, and a bunch of gritty guys smoking at all times.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yes, he does it all of his games vs idrA. He loses one game because he kinda sways away from his build. Game one though, I mean really, idrA left prematurely if you ask me. Also a spine crawler with 1 queen dedicated to transfusion goes a very long way vs reapers.

Anyway I honestly don't care if they nerf the crap out of Terran. The more the merrier. *I love playing the underdog*, and I'll love when all the losers complaining about balance issues shut up. I'm not saying all of them, but most of them. Only reason I play Terran is because they are by far the coolest race. Nothing beats Siege tanks, nukes, gaint mechs, and a bunch of gritty guys smoking at all times.

This is exactly why I chose zerg ;P


----------



## DoomDash

They weren't the underdog when I started playing







. In fact the opposite







. I still did well though.


----------



## hkfosho

Yeah I was kinda pissed off that I couldn't play beta :/ regardless, I'm on my way to diamond as zerg (currently sitting on plat because not enough losses to trigger the system :O)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
Yeah I was kinda pissed off that I couldn't play beta :/ regardless, I'm on my way to diamond as zerg (currently sitting on plat because not enough losses to trigger the system :O)

I don't think it's losses, you just need more games.


----------



## DoomDash

I got the beta like two weeks before you could just reserve it at gamestop and get a key. Things were much much different back then. I can't tell you how many times I lost to immortal timing pushes before I realize that ghosts are the key to beating Immortals. I also played a lot of Zerg back then when Roach was 1 food... it was nuts! lol. Concsuive shells were automatically on marauders, siege tanks were considered bad @ 60 damage, thors did 45 damage PER shot ( in bursts of two ) so they one hit killed Hydras. Actually I really liked when they changed thors because they attack much faster now, yet deal the same DPS... pure genius on blizzards part. They also had the shock cannons automatically as well.


----------



## thiru

I feel like learning to play zerg now. Not sure how to do this, play against AI or custom games? (don't have many online friends, and none at my level).


----------



## kilrbe3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRtDwm2MlI

God I love idra's rage.

To comment on that video, Idra could of put up a spine crawler or two to help with the early reaper's.

And ya, I agree, he raged WAY to early. BUT, in his defense. He probably saw those 5-6 rax when he pushed the ramp and just said screw it.

To comment on Terran; I'll be honest, as I was new to SC but learned quickly and fast, and Terran is the only race I play. So they nerf it, meh, might make me go try another race. But I enjoy Terran for probably the most obvious reasons and probably why everyone else likes Terran.

Its realistic to current military tech, reminds me a lot of C&C Zero Hour (my fav RTS), and plus the names of the building were real names. Rax, Starport, Factory.. Compared to Spawning Pool, Roach Warren and all the Z stuff.

Plus Terran was what I started on and said since im new to SC, might as well master one race and play the crap out of it so I have something to fall back on.


----------



## DoomDash

First thing first : Play the Zerg single player challenges.

Then yeah I'd hop in on custom games.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I don't think it's losses, you just need more games.

No, the ranking system is pretty messed up atm. I think it's 7 or 9 games that you need to lose before getting promoted to diamond.

A player by the name of Cauthonluck was 50-7 or something like that and remained in plat, even though he kept playing against high ranked diamond league players.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
No, the ranking system is pretty messed up atm. I think it's 7 or 9 games that you need to lose before getting promoted to diamond.

A player by the name of Cauthonluck was 50-7 or something like that and remained in plat, even though he kept playing against high ranked diamond league players.

http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/platinum/1

Stabguy is 56-0, and still in Platinum.


----------



## DoomDash

BTW who do you guys have thats good in your divisions?

I have : QXC, Silver, Tasteless ( day9's bro ), ajtls, and ReSponSe :O. At least those are all I've heard of:
http://sc2ranks.com/div/1398


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
No, the ranking system is pretty messed up atm. I think it's 7 or 9 games that you need to lose before getting promoted to diamond.

A player by the name of Cauthonluck was 50-7 or something like that and remained in plat, even though he kept playing against high ranked diamond league players.

Oh, my bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/platinum/1

Stabguy is 56-0, and still in Platinum.

Ha I saw that guy in the rankings the other day, that's insane.... didn't see that he still was in platinum though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
First thing first : Play the Zerg single player challenges.

Then yeah I'd hop in on custom games.

Yeah I forgot about those, dunno if I did them (apart from the rock paper scissor ones).


----------



## JTD92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BTW who do you guys have thats good in your divisions?

I have : QXC, Silver, Tasteless ( day9's bro ), ajtls, and ReSponSe :O. At least those are all I've heard of:
http://sc2ranks.com/div/1398

Nice! Apparently I have no one that good in my division.









http://sc2ranks.com/div/28063


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hkfosho*


No, the ranking system is pretty messed up atm. I think it's 7 or 9 games that you need to lose before getting promoted to diamond.

A player by the name of Cauthonluck was 50-7 or something like that and remained in plat, even though he kept playing against high ranked diamond league players.



I think I went 1-5 on platinum and was promoted to Diamond.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I think I went 1-5 on platinum and was promoted to Diamond.


hows that possible? if u played 6 games and have a record of 1-5, you shouldn't be in a plat league in the first place.


----------



## Blooregard

The ranking system is bugged, you have to lose a couple of games before it promotes you, I even tested it myself because I was stuck in silver for the longest of time over 100 games played in 1v1 and I was winning a lot, 8 win streaks and I saw a thread on Starcraft 2 Forums saying that you have to lose a couple games then you win once and you get promoted. So I tested it out by losign 3 games in a row then I won once and it promoted me to Gold. Which is why those pro gamers, even with their crazy wins can't get promoted because they jsut don't lose enough. Heres the link to some theories on it. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/540704940#1


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hkfosho* 
hows that possible? if u played 6 games and have a record of 1-5, you shouldn't be in a plat league in the first place.

I played 6 games on Platinum. In total I am 15-8


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I played 6 games on Platinum. In total I am 15-8


oh ok. I meant your TOTAL losses, not just the ones from the plat league. Since you're at 8 losses, I'm assuming 7 losses is the trigger to get promoted.


----------



## MicahFett

Honest assessment from you guys:

If I have never played SC (1 or 2) is it even worth getting into it at this point? Or would I be so far behind the curve that I would just continually get my ass kicked and end up hating it?


----------



## DoomDash

of course you should get it. You know how many people came late to the party in BW? Most people didn't even play SC1 ( I did! ).


----------



## thiru

The game is designed to (eventually) put you in a league where you'll win 50% of your games.


----------



## MicahFett

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The game is designed to (eventually) put you in a league where you'll win 50% of your games.


Yeah, i've always been interested in SC but i've been hesitant to subject myself to what must ultimately be a painful initiation at this point.

However, pitting me against other noobs 'till i hit a ~50% win ratio sounds like a pretty acceptable situation


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicahFett*


Yeah, i've always been interested in SC but i've been hesitant to subject myself to what must ultimately be a painful initiation at this point.

However, pitting me against other noobs 'till i hit a ~50% win ratio sounds like a pretty acceptable situation










You can also play against the computer until you get a feel for the pacing and strategy.


----------



## DoomDash

There is a practice league before you even get into normal leagues anyway.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There is a practice league before you even get into normal leagues anyway.


Doomdash you probably don't remember the practice league







, but it's not something ANYONE should play. They block the entrances of each player's base with destructible rocks, which means new players who play the 50 allowed practice games will get wiped out in the real leagues because all they know is turtling.


----------



## DoomDash

I have never been in practice league







. But I do know about those rocks. Yeah that probably hurts more than helps now that I think about it







.


----------



## _02

Wait, do the rocks block all entrances?

All the games I've watched have the rear entrance to the base blocked off.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes in practice league.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


Wait, do the rocks block all entrances?

All the games I've watched have the rear entrance to the base blocked off.


No, we're talking about the novice maps used in the practice league. They completely block the main base at the ramp or choke, and in some cases they also block the main+natural expansion.

In _some_ normal maps rocks block the path to back entrances or "safe" expands.


----------



## DoomDash

For you newer Protoss players, if you don't know what void ray phasing is I suggest you look it up. One more thing that I will remind you guys, "Unit Tester" is one of the best learning tools you can have. Get it on scmapster.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


I just watched an awesome game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IYOj...eature=channel


Interesting to see how protoss had to complete two tech trees to be able to barely defend against terran t1 spam. And now they're nerfing zealots. Sweet!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


For you newer Protoss players, if you don't know what void ray phasing is I suggest you look it up.


I believe they "fixed" it in the beta.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

epic pvt game

  
 You Tube


----------



## thiru

... Posted above. And quoted JUST above your post.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Interesting to see how protoss had to complete two tech trees to be able to barely defend against terran t1 spam. And now they're nerfing zealots. Sweet!

I believe they "fixed" it in the beta.


Seems you are right. Dang.


----------



## calavera

something that just crossed my mind









you know what the most advanced unit is in starcraft 2?

SCV's. because they can fix motherships and phase cannons..etc. something even the highly advanced protoss can't do.








(given you have a terran ally in a 2vs2 or more)


----------



## ThumperSD

Curious about what everyone here thinks about proxy 2 gate rush

Cheese or legit?


----------



## Tchernobyl

proxy anything is cheese~


----------



## Dom_sufc

I don't get how any tactics can be cheesy. It sounds like a category a bad player would class his opponent as when he got beat.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I don't get how any tactics can be cheesy. It sounds like a category a bad player would class his opponent as when he got beat.

I agree with this. I have a friend who always rages at MMM balls or cannon rushes and I'm always like "QQ some more douchebag, you're just mad because you got beat."


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I don't get how any tactics can be cheesy. It sounds like a category a bad player would class his opponent as when he got beat.

I do it when I rage because I'm a _decent_ player, and often times I'm booted away from Diamond league because I get "cheesed" (proxied or something else that set up for a quick win) many time in a row, and right now, until the ladders are adjusted properly, people who do nothing but these tatics are high up in ladders.

tl;dr, I agree with you.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Cheese strats depends. 6 pool zergling rush? Not really cheese, just an early use of units/buildings.
Bioball? Annoying and possibly overpowered as hell, but cheese? Nah. just stronger than it should be








Reaper? Too strong in the role it fills, yes, but not cheese. It's questionable as to why you can get it so fast/early though....

Building a "sub base" or "cannon wall" on the very edge of the enemy's base? (or a bunker, etc). That's cheese, yes.

at least, IMO


----------



## Sadist

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I don't get how any tactics can be cheesy. It sounds like a category a bad player would class his opponent as when he got beat.

Cheesy is when you sacrifice making workers (economy) in favor of getting combat units asap, it has nothing to do with whether it works or not.


----------



## hkfosho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Cheese strats depends. 6 pool zergling rush? Not really cheese, just an early use of units/buildings.
Bioball? Annoying and possibly overpowered as hell, but cheese? Nah. just stronger than it should be








Reaper? Too strong in the role it fills, yes, but not cheese. It's questionable as to why you can get it so fast/early though....

Building a "sub base" or "cannon wall" on the very edge of the enemy's base? (or a bunker, etc). That's cheese, yes.

at least, IMO









6 pool ling is definitely a cheese strat, especially in maps like steppes of war


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I don't get how any tactics can be cheesy. It sounds like a category a bad player would class his opponent as when he got beat.

It's cheese, not cheesy. A cheese is a "all in" tactic, it either works or fails and puts you at such a disadvantage that you lose the game. Examples are cannon rushes or very 6-pool zergling rush (happened to me today, failed and I wiped him out because he couldn't make any other unit than zerglings).


----------



## Akhen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's cheese, not cheesy. A cheese is a "all in" tactic, it either works or fails and puts you at such a disadvantage that you lose the game. Examples are cannon rushes or very 6-pool zergling rush (happened to me today, failed and I wiped him out because he couldn't make any other unit than zerglings).

How dare you disagree, now I will pylon rush your base in retribution.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's cheese, not cheesy. A cheese is a "all in" tactic, it either works or fails and puts you at such a disadvantage that you lose the game. Examples are cannon rushes or very 6-pool zergling rush (happened to me today, failed and I wiped him out because he couldn't make any other unit than zerglings).

Ahhh, I see.

So it's just the name of a tactic style, as opposed to a derogatory word to other players tactics.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
as opposed to a derogatory word to other players tactics.

That's called a noob.


----------



## ThumperSD

i dont get why so many people rage when they get cheesed
big deal.. just learn from it and be a better scouter. ive been cheesed by everything you can think of, cannon rush, proxy reaper, 6 pool, planetary fortress rush etc... but after it happens im so much more ready to counter cheese plays

only time i rage is when my partner turtles all game


----------



## DoomDash

Things like proxies can get you wins but I'd rather work on legit strats.


----------



## pzyko80

dont really know if this is the right thread to post at but im getting laggy performance on my sig rig. i reverted everything to stock clocks and still getting lags any clue??


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pzyko80* 
dont really know if this is the right thread to post at but im getting laggy performance on my sig rig. i reverted everything to stock clocks and still getting lags any clue??

specify laggy... low fps??


----------



## thiru

Hey I'm trying out zerg for fun. This is a custom game against a terran (silver but main race is zerg, I'm protoss silver myself).

Can you guys tell me what's terribly wrong with what I've done (probably did every wrong thing in the book, so just stick to the really bad stuff).

I know that I had way too much money because I wasn't using queens and hatcheries enough, and don't bother telling me stuff that applies to other races (like I didn't get workers on gas at times).

Thanks!

edit: this was an easy game, probably because the other player was trying terran, but in a real game I'm expecting to have a lot of trouble deciding between making drones and units at the hatchery, as well as deciding to expand early or not.

Also, any good zerg replays are appreciated! (don't play against many zerg..)


----------



## Omnimancer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
I agree with this. I have a friend who always rages at MMM balls or cannon rushes and I'm always like "QQ some more douchebag, you're just mad because you got beat."

MMM balls don't have to be cheese Terran is just kinda op right now.


----------



## thiru

MMM balls are NOT cheese simply because they're not an all-in tactic.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Hey I'm trying out zerg for fun. This is a custom game against a terran (silver but main race is zerg, I'm protoss silver myself).

Can you guys tell me what's terribly wrong with what I've done (probably did every wrong thing in the book, so just stick to the really bad stuff).

I know that I had way too much money because I wasn't using queens and hatcheries enough, and don't bother telling me stuff that applies to other races (like I didn't get workers on gas at times).

Thanks!

edit: this was an easy game, probably because the other player was trying terran, but in a real game I'm expecting to have a lot of trouble deciding between making drones and units at the hatchery, as well as deciding to expand early or not.

Also, any good zerg replays are appreciated! (don't play against many zerg..)

With all the minerals you had, I would have thrown in a few non-expo hatcheries and make a ton of speedlings. You could have ended the game so much earlier if you went that route.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
With all the minerals you had, I would have thrown in a few non-expo hatcheries and make a ton of speedlings. You could have ended the game so much earlier if you went that route.

People do that in SC2? I didn't know. But yeah I had enough to make 400 lings







(I thought about doing 400 banelings for the lulz but probably didn't have enough gas).


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
People do that in SC2? I didn't know. But yeah I had enough to make 400 lings







(I thought about doing 400 banelings for the lulz but probably didn't have enough gas).

Not traditionally but you had $5k+ minerals so you might as well use it on something useful. You're either going to spend those minerals on hatcheries or try (and fail) spending it on producing units your 2 hatcheries could make. If you had 5 hatcheries with queens producing larvae, thats MAD speedlings


----------



## boie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pzyko80* 
dont really know if this is the right thread to post at but im getting laggy performance on my sig rig. i reverted everything to stock clocks and still getting lags any clue??

SC2 does not support sli/xfire


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Hey I'm trying out zerg for fun. This is a custom game against a terran (silver but main race is zerg, I'm protoss silver myself).

Can you guys tell me what's terribly wrong with what I've done (probably did every wrong thing in the book, so just stick to the really bad stuff).

I know that I had way too much money because I wasn't using queens and hatcheries enough, and don't bother telling me stuff that applies to other races (like I didn't get workers on gas at times).

Thanks!

edit: this was an easy game, probably because the other player was trying terran, but in a real game I'm expecting to have a lot of trouble deciding between making drones and units at the hatchery, as well as deciding to expand early or not.

Also, any good zerg replays are appreciated! (don't play against many zerg..)

OK I know you said don't mention things, but I must yell at you for them.

1) You got gas early, yet you didn't spend it until you had over 200? What was the point of early gas then?

2) For Zerg a pretty standard opener is 14 pool, 15 hatch. You were also late building your pool by 30 minerals.

3) Spawn Larva was very off most of the time. You need to watch that ( listen for them to pop out if you are near your base ).

4) Money, jeeze man.... your macro is AWFUL. I don't really buy that its just your Zerg macro lacking either. You should never have over 500 minerals sitting in the bank, much less 5000!! Spend it on hatcheries, upgades, units, whatever you can! Throw down some expans, some evo chambers, tech, ect.

5) Your scouting is beyond awful. You NEED to scout, sooo bad. You can't just hope and pray you're building the right units, and seeing what he has gives you an idea of how much to dedicate to building your econ, your army, and or expanding. Keep an overlord near, or an overseer and use changelings.

6) Speaking of spending and scouting, if that was me playing I would have had every spot on the map expanded to by 20 minutes if I saw such a passive Terran. If you play Zerg passively against a good Terran who is playing passively you are going to lose everytime.

7) If you are going far enough to get roaches, and burrow, why don't you have roach burrow movement? Not only does it kick major but for being able to move while burrowed, but the healing they get from it is amazing.

8) After you hit him with your roach army, you got a bunch of mutalisks. At that point you literally won the game. He had nothing to stop you. Vikings suck vs muta's, and marines are bad vs muta in small numbers. Don't be so passive, take action when you see weakness.

9) You could have been much more aggressive with your creep tumors. Spreading creep is very important.

10) On Steps of War specifically, you should destroy the rocks near your natural much quicker. No reason not to, and then you can take that expansion faster.

11) Quite overboard on the banelings. You would have been much better off having half banes, half speedlings. You don't get banelings back once they explode.

12 ) That overlord I told you to keep near, that could work wonders later for making a Nydus worm as well.

Hope that helps.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


It's cheese, not cheesy. A cheese is a "all in" tactic, it either works or fails and puts you at such a disadvantage that you lose the game. Examples are cannon rushes or very 6-pool zergling rush (happened to me today, failed and I wiped him out because he couldn't make any other unit than zerglings).


Cheese != all-in. Cheese is a high risk/high reward strategy that relies on surprise and is set to win the game early, e.g. 6pool, proxy gate/rax, cannon rush, proxy hatch etc. Cheese, when scouted, is usually an auto-loose, so you don't see it that much in high levels of play. It's just too much of a gamble.

All-in is a strategy that sacrifices economy for sake of creating powerful army fast. E.g. 4gate, 5 rax, 1base roaches etc. An all-in can be scouted and it's still hard to deal with. However if defended it gives the opponent economical/tech advantage.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
OK I know you said don't mention things, but I must yell at you for them.

1) You got gas early, yet you didn't spend it until you had over 200? What was the point of early gas then?

2) For Zerg a pretty standard opener is 14 pool, 15 hatch. You were also late building your pool by 30 minerals.

3) Spawn Larva was very off most of the time. You need to watch that ( listen for them to pop out if you are near your base ).

4) Money, jeeze man.... your macro is AWFUL. I don't really buy that its just your Zerg macro lacking either. You should never have over 500 minerals sitting in the bank, much less 5000!! Spend it on hatcheries, upgades, units, whatever you can! Throw down some expans, some evo chambers, tech, ect.

5) Your scouting is beyond awful. You NEED to scout, sooo bad. You can't just hope and pray you're building the right units, and seeing what he has gives you an idea of how much to dedicate to building your econ, your army, and or expanding. Keep an overlord near, or an overseer and use changelings.

6) Speaking of spending and scouting, if that was me playing I would have had every spot on the map expanded to by 20 minutes if I saw such a passive Terran. If you play Zerg passively against a good Terran who is playing passively you are going to lose everytime.

7) If you are going far enough to get roaches, and burrow, why don't you have roach burrow movement? Not only does it kick major but for being able to move while burrowed, but the healing they get from it is amazing.

8) After you hit him with your roach army, you got a bunch of mutalisks. At that point you literally won the game. He had nothing to stop you. Vikings suck vs muta's, and marines are bad vs muta in small numbers. Don't be so passive, take action when you see weakness.

9) You could have been much more aggressive with your creep tumors. Spreading creep is very important.

10) On Steps of War specifically, you should destroy the rocks near your natural much quicker. No reason not to, and then you can take that expansion faster.

11) Quite overboard on the banelings. You would have been much better off having half banes, half speedlings. You don't get banelings back once they explode.

12 ) That overlord I told you to keep near, that could work wonders later for making a Nydus worm as well.

Hope that helps.

lol I admit I've never had anywhere near so much money in a game before, this is like the 5th time I play zerg, I had no idea how to spend my money. When I play something other than protoss I get ******ed even when it comes to simple/common mechanics like spending all your money or making workers, which is why I said not to mention it. The last time I played terran (practice thankfully) I forgot to make SCVs for 5 minutes at early-mid game.

I'm not sure how to scout with zerg, I don't know changelings work, they always get shot at as soon as an enemy unit sees them so what's the point?
As for overlords I was afraid of losing them, but I guess it should be ok until he gets Vikings (at which point I could have used my mutas).

I'll spread the creep thing. Do zerg get a health regen bonus on it?
Guess I'll expand faster next time. And yeah I'll keep nydus canal in mind, worked wonders the first time I played zerg.
As for my passivity, with zerg I can never tell how big my army is or how effective. I'd think my army was ok and then it'd get wiped out in 2 seconds.

Banelings, I love them, it's just so fun watching them blow stuff up so I just made them whenever I could







(but yeah I'll do less next time).


----------



## Lucas Lamer

How do you Z players set your control groups? TLO has his infestors on a separate control group, which I like. I also like having anti-air units on one group so I can focus their firepower where I want. I'm a little conflicted on how to handle some of the other things. Queens are an important defensive unit early and they frequently need to be microed then, so they seem to need their own CG then, but later on they're mainly just camped out by the hatchery spawning larvae and doing occasional transfusions. Also the scouting units seem to need their own CG in the early going, but not so much later. Is it advisable to have separate early/late control schemes?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
How do you Z players set your control groups? TLO has his infestors on a separate control group, which I like. I also like having anti-air units on one group so I can focus their firepower where I want. I'm a little conflicted on how to handle some of the other things. Queens are an important defensive unit early and they frequently need to be microed then, so they seem to need their own CG then, but later on they're mainly just camped out by the hatchery spawning larvae and doing occasional transfusions. Also the scouting units seem to need their own CG in the early going, but not so much later. Is it advisable to have separate early/late control schemes?

Well as you can tell by the above posts that I'm not pro at zerg, but with any race I put pure casters like HT in a separate group so that they don't just go walk into death. Same should apply to infestors.

Since queens are so essential for their larva spell, put them in a group and click V, hold right-shift and press backspace (this focuses on each hatchery) then click on the hatchery (repeat backspace then click for other hatcheries, still holding shift). Again I'm no good at zerg but let me tell you this is so much faster to do.

Might as well get a CG for the first worker scout, it's not like you've got any other units at the time.

[email protected]: I didn't know that was the specific definition for all-in. I said all-in like where you bet everything you have without knowing how much of a chance you stand and no way of coming back.


----------



## DoomDash

My Zerg set up :

Main base hatch 5, Natural hatch 6, 3rd 7, 4th 8 ect. To spawn larva I just hit 55, 66, 77, ect.

4 is always ALL my hatches. This way if I need to macro while attacking I can just hit 4 then build at all of them.

Army : Depends on units but generally : 1 lings, 2 muta

or 1 roach + infestors, 2 just infestors

I average over 100 APM for Zerg so this setup works great for me.

Roughly 30 APM higher than my Terran ( 70's ). My toss is 80-90.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


My Zerg set up :

Main base hatch 5, Natural hatch 6, 3rd 7, 4th 8 ect. To spawn larva I just hit 55, 66, 77, ect.

4 is always ALL my hatches. This way if I need to macro while attacking I can just hit 4 then build at all of them.

Army : Depends on units but generally : 1 lings, 2 muta

or 1 roach + infestors, 2 just infestors

I average over 100 APM for Zerg so this setup works great for me.


Double clicking 55 selects larva (if 5 is hatchery)?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Double clicking 55 selects larva (if 5 is hatchery)?


55 click queen v. I know your way is the fastest but you have to re-adjust your hands so I don't really like it much. Doesn't take long my way either. I just played a bunch of 2v2's as Zerg a few min ago







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


55 click queen v. I know your way is the fastest but you have to re-adjust your hands so I don't really like it much. Doesn't take long my way either. I just played a bunch of 2v2's as Zerg a few min ago







.


Ah, I thought you meant 55 directly selected larva to make units. Well in your case even faster would be to have a group just for queen. Put them in say 5, then 66,5,V,click, then 77,5,V,click etc.

I wish you could save locations with F1-F12 like in Starcraft 2







would do wonders for warping in units with protoss. Guess I'll have to put pylons into a CG.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
55 click queen v.









That's how I've been doing it too. I'm not convinced it's the best method. I keep seeing different ideas on how to handle the queens and I want to try them all before I settle on one.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Ah, I thought you meant 55 directly selected larva to make units. Well in your case even faster would be to have a group just for queen. Put them in say 5, then 66,5,V,click, then 77,5,V,click etc.

I wish you could save locations with F1-F12 like in Starcraft 2







would do wonders for warping in units with protoss. Guess I'll have to put pylons into a CG.


There is more room for error with your method. I believe if you click too fast ( V ) other queens will come? Maybe not but I'm pretty happy with my way as I can do 3-4 hatches in 3 seconds.

Interested in my 2v2 Z replays? Only in Silver league ( my partner is still in practice league... lol ).


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There is more room for error with your method. I believe if you click too fast ( V ) other queens will come? Maybe not but I'm pretty happy with my way as I can do 3-4 hatches in 3 seconds.


No I don't think another queen will come if you try to spawn larvae twice on the same hatchery, because you can't cast it twice in a row.
That could happen only if your queen doesn't have enough energy because you used creep or transfusion, or if one of your queens died.

edit: yeah shoot


----------



## DoomDash

I'm pretty happy with my system so I probably won't change it until Blizzard makes it so left shift + cntrl left does the super fast camera panning like it does w/ right shift.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There is more room for error with your method. I believe if you click too fast ( V ) other queens will come? Maybe not but I'm pretty happy with my way as I can do 3-4 hatches in 3 seconds.

Interested in my 2v2 Z replays? Only in Silver league ( my partner is still in practice league... lol ).


Your method(which is also mine) is very efficient when the queen is camped out right next to the hatchery. It's a lot less efficient when she's away from the hatchery and you have to hunt for her to click her. That's a big reason why I want to try out other methods.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quick question, How do you setup different buildings in the same control group if they are not both visible in the same vision? say your main is a Lair and your natural is a hatch and the 3rd expo is accross the map and is still a hatch, how would you set them up in the same group? I tried Shift click then scroll and shift click but it did not work.

It also works great if you have A LOT of warpgates at mains and expo and you want to warp in units from all locations to a forward pilon...

or if you make barraks in your forward terran position in front of your natural and there are also some in your base and you just want to mass marines....


----------



## DoomDash

Here ya go. Not 1v1 but it will at least show you how another player plays Z. I just cant bring myself to play Z 1v1 because of ZvZ.

LMK what you think. I need work just like everyone else







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Quick question, How do you setup different buildings in the same control group if they are not both visible in the same vision? say your main is a Lair and your natural is a hatch and the 3rd expo is accross the map and is still a hatch, how would you set them up in the same group? I tried Shift click then scroll and shift click but it did not work.

It also works great if you have A LOT of warpgates at mains and expo and you want to warp in units from all locations to a forward pilon...


Wow you have been playing with a disadvantage man.
You can either select all those buildings across the map with shift clicking then press CTRL+# or use SHIFT+# to individually add buildings one by one to that group.

edit: applies to units too.

Thanks Doomdash


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Your method(which is also mine) is very efficient when the queen is camped out right next to the hatchery. It's a lot less efficient when she's away from the hatchery and you have to hunt for her to click her. That's a big reason why I want to try out other methods.


I keep mine near my hatch at all times..


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Here ya go. Not 1v1 but it will at least show you how another player plays Z. I just cant bring myself to play Z 1v1 because of ZvZ.

LMK what you think. I need work just like everyone else







.


Also watch how bad my ally is. I've been training him for awhile now but its been a very slow process.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Your method(which is also mine) is very efficient when the queen is camped out right next to the hatchery. It's a lot less efficient when she's away from the hatchery and you have to hunt for her to click her. That's a big reason why I want to try out other methods.


Well in that case put all queens in a group and do what I mentioned to Doomdash. It will summon the nearest one. Still prone to error if your queens are too far, but if they each don't stray from their hatcheries and they each have enough energy it should work. Other option is to have a CG for each queen... I'd rather use those for each hatchery like Doomdash.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also watch how bad my ally is. I've been training him for awhile now but its been a very slow process.


Umm ok lol


----------



## DoomDash

I think I even included one where we got wrecked. I got super ling rushed trying to build up my econ.... would have been fine if my ally was a help







.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I keep mine near my hatch at all times..


I try to, but sometimes the queen gets pulled away when she needs to fend off harassment, chase away aerial scouts, or do transfusions on spinecrawlers and sporecrawlers. Then you end up having to hunt for her the next time you want her to spawn larvae. It's inconvenient.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think I even included one where we got wrecked. I got super ling rushed trying to build up my econ.... would have been fine if my ally was a help







.


My last random 2v2 was PZvZZ. I got double 6-pooled :/


----------



## DoomDash

With Terran is just smash my keyboard and make monkey noises and win. At least thats how most people feel







.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


My last random 2v2 was PZvZZ. I got double 6-pooled :/


Well I meant mine was more a massive amount of speedlings and I wasn't quite ready.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


My last random 2v2 was PZvZZ. I got double 6-pooled :/


If you were toss, you could have rushed up to void rays after you walled off and then raped them because they would have had no anti-air.

Whenever that happens to my partner and I in a 2v2, He'll just go banshees and rape them.

Although, it is a bit harder in random teams lol.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


With Terran is just smash my keyboard and make monkey noises and win. At least thats how most people feel







.

Well I meant mine was more a massive amount of speedlings and I wasn't quite ready.



I find if you are facing zerg (and either you are protoss or another zerg), you can get overran VERY quickly even if the opponent didnt 6 pool by just how quickly they can mass zergling off one hatch.
Terran can easily block, toss can and close the gap with zealots but as another zerg, you have to do the scouting every once in a while, even with ust one ling to keep track if they are expanding or just poping larvae and massing lings.

I once had something like 35 lings off one hatch and attacked right as my opponent was expanding. It was awesome. I also had that done to me cause I didnt explore...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


If you were toss, you could have rushed up to void rays after you walled off and then raped them because they would have had no anti-air.

Whenever that happens to my partner and I in a 2v2, He'll just go banshees and rape them.

Although, it is a bit harder in random teams lol.


Mmmh sounds good if I can keep out long enough for an probe to completely wall off








I don't play 2v2 much though.

Can a 2v2 be a game between a random team and a non random team?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, and sadly its like that a lot.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Zerg would be a lot simpler if the queen could autocast spawn larvae.


----------



## DoomDash

I like spawn larva. Autocast would be lame. That's for low skilled RTS IMO.

People on bnet forums want autocast for everything, even Phoenix!!! Crazy.

Zerg is already easiest to manage IMO... well maybe Toss too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I like spawn larva. Autocast would be lame. That's for low skilled RTS IMO.

People on bnet forums want autocast for everything, even Phoenix!!! Crazy.

Zerg is already easiest to manage IMO... well maybe Toss too.


Can you explain why you think zerg is easiest to manage? It's really not obvious to me, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can you explain why you think zerg is easiest to manage? It's really not obvious to me, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong.


I believe it's due to the fact that you don't need to take an eye off your army/scout/whatever while macroing. Producing units, making overlords and injecting larvae doesn't require you to even look at your base.

Why toss is easy to manage? I have no idea, but I keep hearing it from people that don't play protoss quite often. I think it's actually the hardest due to warp gate and chronoboost mechanics so you can't spam units while in battle as easily as zerg or terran.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I believe it's due to the fact that you don't need to take an eye off your army/scout/whatever while macroing. Producing units, making overlords and injecting larvae doesn't require you to even look at your base.

Why toss is easy to manage? I have no idea, but I keep hearing it from people that don't play protoss quite often.


How do you spawn larvae without looking at your hatcheries?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How do you spawn larvae without looking at your hatcheries?


If you've got all your queens assigned to one hotkey, you can just press that hotkey, hold v and click all your hatcheries on the minimap.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


If you've got all your queens assigned to one hotkey, you can just press that hotkey, hold v and click all your hatcheries on the minimap.


Wow didn't know you could use abilities on structures on the minimap 

And protoss can't even warp on the minimap! (not serious)


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Ah, I thought you meant 55 directly selected larva to make units. Well in your case even faster would be to have a group just for queen. Put them in say 5, then 66,5,V,click, then 77,5,V,click etc.


Thanks for the tip. I've been playing around with this method and it's definitely better than what I was doing before. Now the nearest queen always comes over to make larvae. I don't have to hunt for her if she ran off chasing a snooping medevac or I had previously sent her away to heal a spinecrawler or make a creep tumor. She comes right back to the hatchery now.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Thanks for the tip. I've been playing around with this method and it's definitely better than what I was doing before. Now the nearest queen always comes over to make larvae. I don't have to hunt for her if she ran off chasing a snooping medevac or I had previously sent her away to heal a spinecrawler or make a creep tumor. She comes right back to the hatchery now.


No problem, you should try porobosz's too. I would, but battle.net is down in Europe :/


----------



## Xeio

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Why toss is easy to manage? I have no idea, but I keep hearing it from people that don't play protoss quite often. I think it's actually the hardest due to warp gate and chronoboost mechanics so you can't spam units while in battle as easily as zerg or terran.


Generally because they can make whatever unit they need most (assuming it's from the gateway) literally in seconds during the battle with no travel time (well, assuming power field) to turn the tide (particularly templar, if you have the energy research for storm, but really any reinforcements). Chrono boost is pretty simple to manage as well (compared to spawn larvae) since you can technically forget and just spam multiple chronos at once, and the only time you need to track it is if you're boosting a long research.

I'd say terran are hardest to manage, but that's mostly because they're my weakest race.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


If you've got all your queens assigned to one hotkey, you can just press that hotkey, hold v and click all your hatcheries on the minimap.


That's awesome. I tried it on a test map and it works great. I have 5 hatcheries spread all over the map. The queens are in control group 5. I press 5, v, click hatchery on minimap, v, click next hatch, v, click next hatch, etc. until done. Within a few seconds all 5 hatcheries are spawning and I didn't even have to look at them. The nearest queen always runs over to spawn.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

RE tos, the thing is much of their units have skills that need to be micro'd, while most of the other races don't. In early game Terran's got stim, Zerg really don't have anything early, except corrupters and infesters in mid/late game. Tos has so many units that have key'd skills.

Also if you're just buliding out of gateway you're gona slaughtered. Gateway units are pretty weak against most unless vs bio with high temp and zealots.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can you explain why you think zerg is easiest to manage? It's really not obvious to me, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong.


Let me explain why I feel that way.

A) Zerg although they have spawn larva, make ALL units at one unit producing structure ( their hatch ), including drones, and the supply depot equivalent. I literally just plop down one building, and I'm set for good ( Spire, Roach Warren, ect ). In order for Terran to have the ability to produce any of their tech units on the fly they need multiple buildings for each specific type. If you want to keep up with a Zerg with money you need to have a ton of buildings, and you better have the right ones or that could be GG. With Zerg it all comes down to the one building, plus how many hatches you have. Zerg also does not need to switch add-ons, or anything of the sort.

B) That also has some other great advantages. Easy to lay out your base in a way that suits you or doesn't hinder the performance of your units ( with Terran its hell having a nice base sometimes ).

C) The reason APM is so high with Z ( like I said, my Z apm is about 30 higher than that with T ), is because you have time to micro your super fast or large armies with out having to constantly worry about base management. No going back to your base to look at building depots, no going back to your base to switch an add-on, drop a depot, ect ect. You just build build build, maybe once and while plop down a building or hatch, and micro your units. I can promise you if you get good at Z you'll know just what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it's just my opinion and how I feel about the game. This absolutely does not mean Z is easier to play. I just feel like the base management of Z is a breeze. They have other areas that are disadvantages that P or T have strengths in. Terran base management is a huge pain.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Let me explain why I feel that way.

A) Zerg although they have spawn larva, make ALL units at one unit producing structure ( their hatch ), including drones, and the supply depot equivalent. I literally just plop down one building, and I'm set for good ( Spire, Roach Warren, ect ). In order for Terran to have the ability to produce any of their tech units on the fly they need multiple buildings for each specific type. If you want to keep up with a Zerg with money you need to have a ton of buildings, and you better have the right ones or that could be GG. With Zerg it all comes down to the one building, plus how many hatches you have. Zerg also does not need to switch add-ons, or anything of the sort.

B) That also has some other great advantages. Easy to lay out your base in a way that suits you or doesn't hinder the performance of your units ( with Terran its hell having a nice base sometimes ).

C) The reason APM is so high with Z ( like I said, my Z apm is about 30 higher than that with T ), is because you have time to micro your super fast or large armies with out having to constantly worry about base management. No going back to your base to look at building depots, no going back to your base to switch an add-on, drop a depot, ect ect. You just build build build, maybe once and while plop down a building or hatch, and micro your units. I can promise you if you get good at Z you'll know just what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it's just my opinion and how I feel about the game. This absolutely does not mean Z is easier to play. I just feel like the base management of Z is a breeze. They have other areas that are disadvantages that P or T have strengths in. Terran base management is a huge pain.


Ah, I see what you mean.

Anyway I just watched the TLO ZvT Cola replay and it's pretty inspiring. Had 2/3 of the expands, controlled the whole map, ultralisks were pretty awesome (and ultra doom drop lol).
Still haven't seen your replay because battle.net is down









edit: just realized I don't need to sign in to watch replays
and battle.net is back!


----------



## l337sft

Okay, i never really got into starcraft but i got starcraft 2 cause i played at a friends house and i was hooked, im getting better, i dare not play against a human yet, ive just been playing against medium AI. Anyone know any like.. gameplay commentaries i should look at for protoss to get better?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


Okay, i never really got into starcraft but i got starcraft 2 cause i played at a friends house and i was hooked, im getting better, i dare not play against a human yet, ive just been playing against medium AI. Anyone know any like.. gameplay commentaries i should look at for protoss to get better?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=104154

Seriously...


----------



## DuckYy

day9 just did two protoss videos this week. one macro and the other 4 gate. i would learn these first then start branching off into stargates, robo, templars.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


day9 just did two protoss videos this week. one macro and the other 4 gate. i would learn these first then start branching off into stargates, robo, templars.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc


I win!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Let me explain why I feel that way.

A) Zerg although they have spawn larva, make ALL units at one unit producing structure ( their hatch ), including drones, and the supply depot equivalent. I literally just plop down one building, and I'm set for good ( Spire, Roach Warren, ect ). In order for Terran to have the ability to produce any of their tech units on the fly they need multiple buildings for each specific type. If you want to keep up with a Zerg with money you need to have a ton of buildings, and you better have the right ones or that could be GG. With Zerg it all comes down to the one building, plus how many hatches you have. Zerg also does not need to switch add-ons, or anything of the sort.

B) That also has some other great advantages. Easy to lay out your base in a way that suits you or doesn't hinder the performance of your units ( with Terran its hell having a nice base sometimes ).

C) The reason APM is so high with Z ( like I said, my Z apm is about 30 higher than that with T ), is because you have time to micro your super fast or large armies with out having to constantly worry about base management. No going back to your base to look at building depots, no going back to your base to switch an add-on, drop a depot, ect ect. You just build build build, maybe once and while plop down a building or hatch, and micro your units. I can promise you if you get good at Z you'll know just what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it's just my opinion and how I feel about the game. This absolutely does not mean Z is easier to play. I just feel like the base management of Z is a breeze. They have other areas that are disadvantages that P or T have strengths in. Terran base management is a huge pain.


Indeed. also zerg can move their crawlers into different strategic defensive positions.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


day9 just did two protoss videos this week. one macro and the other 4 gate. i would learn these first then start branching off into stargates, robo, templars.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc


Mind = blown.

d9 is so good.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
day9 just did two protoss videos this week. one macro and the other 4 gate. i would learn these first then start branching off into stargates, robo, templars.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc

Ive been trying the macro build today and have won 2-1 against platinum/diamond players.

The time I lost, it was a heavy MM push with ghosts for emp. He had 4 rax. I think the macro route is really hard against an early-midgame MM push especially with medivacs or ghosts. I had a couple immortals to help but his emp + heavy MM just focused down the immortals.

Playing against terran, after you stop the reaper rush, you have a good 5 minutes because the terran pushes and you gotta make sure you know what he does. The fast expo lossed me this game but he was really good. I'll keep practicing and tweeking my build to adjust to early MM push. I can usually stop an MM push if I dont get a fast expo though.


----------



## DoomDash

Personally I think if a T player has Ghosts AND Starports for medivacs he's been developing too much tech too fast, and you should be able to tear him apart before any massive numbers. You are going to have to hit earlier.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Personally I think if a T player has Ghosts AND Starports for medivacs he's been developing too much tech too fast, and you should be able to tear him apart before any massive numbers. You are going to have to hit earlier.

Yea I was quite focused on getting that expo since he had MM guarding his choke and pure gateway (except for templars). He did NOT have any medivacs, just MM/ghosts. His attack was at the 9 min mark and every time I nearly take out all his troops, he goes back and regroups with his reinforcements. Even with 4gate/robo I wasnt able to stop him. I was able to hold off his attack 3 times but he was able to kill my natural expo which set me back.

I had the Nexus up before I even saw his ghost. He started off with 2 rax then went straight to 4 then 5.

If I was able to hold on to my expo, I should have setted myself up to win but his MM with stim and emp just eventually took me out.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Let me explain why I feel that way.

A) Zerg although they have spawn larva, make ALL units at one unit producing structure ( their hatch ), including drones, and the supply depot equivalent. I literally just plop down one building, and I'm set for good ( Spire, Roach Warren, ect ). In order for Terran to have the ability to produce any of their tech units on the fly they need multiple buildings for each specific type. If you want to keep up with a Zerg with money you need to have a ton of buildings, and you better have the right ones or that could be GG. With Zerg it all comes down to the one building, plus how many hatches you have. Zerg also does not need to switch add-ons, or anything of the sort.

B) That also has some other great advantages. Easy to lay out your base in a way that suits you or doesn't hinder the performance of your units ( with Terran its hell having a nice base sometimes ).

C) The reason APM is so high with Z ( like I said, my Z apm is about 30 higher than that with T ), is because you have time to micro your super fast or large armies with out having to constantly worry about base management. No going back to your base to look at building depots, no going back to your base to switch an add-on, drop a depot, ect ect. You just build build build, maybe once and while plop down a building or hatch, and micro your units. I can promise you if you get good at Z you'll know just what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it's just my opinion and how I feel about the game. This absolutely does not mean Z is easier to play. I just feel like the base management of Z is a breeze. They have other areas that are disadvantages that P or T have strengths in. Terran base management is a huge pain.

These reasons are exactly what I like about zerg. Base management for T is just horrible, protoss is a bit better but for zerg, I could just lay structures wherever I want with no repercussions since as you mentioned, all units are made from one structure which is a big advantage since you can make multiple ultralisks for example instead of having to wait one by one like you do for P or T. I remember once in SC where I had something like 25 hatcheries or more and had the money, so, I just massed ultralisks









I just recently finished the campaign and gave zerg a try today, a 1 vs 1 against ai, but, I left the ai at very easy so that I have time to experiment and know the different units and structures. One thing I noticed is that unlike terran and protoss which seem to have gotten major changes, zerg seems to have the least change. We still have zerglings, hydras, mutalisks, queen(a bit different from sc1 though), corrupters are like devourers, only difference is that you have to cast the spell, brood lords are very similar to guardians in life and damage(20 to 25) and ultralisks. Only difference is roaches, infestors and those suicidal bugs along with a couple of other game changes such as having to spread creep using overloads or use the tumor growth on the queen. One thing that I'm wondering, is it possible for someone to built infestors and then burrow them and move them into an opponent's base and start spewing infested marines? I mean each marine is 25 and if the infestors energy is 200, that's 8 marines x 9, so, we're looking at 72 marines that could do some major damage before their 30 sec countdown is done. Is this feasible, since, one could use infested terrans along with a frontal assault to break through into a terran base?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
These reasons are exactly what I like about zerg. Base management for T is just horrible, protoss is a bit better but for zerg, I could just lay structures wherever I want with no repercussions since as you mentioned, all units are made from one structure which is a big advantage since you can make multiple ultralisks for example instead of having to wait one by one like you do for P or T. I remember once in SC where I had something like 25 hatcheries or more and had the money, so, I just massed ultralisks









I just recently finished the campaign and gave zerg a try today, a 1 vs 1 against ai, but, I left the ai at very easy so that I have time to experiment and know the different units and structures. One thing I noticed is that unlike terran and protoss which seem to have gotten major changes, zerg seems to have the least change. We still have zerglings, hydras, mutalisks, queen(a bit different from sc1 though), corrupters are like devourers, only difference is that you have to cast the spell, brood lords are very similar to guardians in life and damage(20 to 25) and ultralisks. Only difference is roaches, infestors and those suicidal bugs along with a couple of other game changes such as having to spread creep using overloads or use the tumor growth on the queen. One thing that I'm wondering, is it possible for someone to built infestors and then burrow them and move them into an opponent's base and start spewing infested marines? I mean each marine is 25 and if the infestors energy is 200, that's 8 marines x 9, so, we're looking at 72 marines that could do some major damage before their 30 sec countdown is done. Is this feasible, since, one could use infested terrans along with a frontal assault to break through into a terran base?

Yeah infestors can launch infested marines while burrowed (the first time it happened to me I was like WTH?).
I have no idea how effective infested marines are though.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Infested marines pack a surprising punch. Get 4 or 5 (preferably more!) infestors in a base, or near a cliff and get vision (overlord/overseer), and spew the eggs into the base near the mineral line.. they'll tear it to shreds!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Infested marines pack a surprising punch. Get 4 or 5 (preferably more!) infestors in a base, or near a cliff and get vision (overlord/overseer), and spew the eggs into the base near the mineral line.. they'll tear it to shreds!

Best part is running some infestors in burrowed into a SCV line and shooting out like 10+ infested marines. Line dies quick







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I have a 1v1 replay in the practice match thread with me vs a terran. I forget most of what I did, but at one point i have infestors hiding at the back of his base, send in a mutalisk to get vision, and launch about 20 of them at the rear of his base, which procede to slaughter everything in their path XD

Actually wait, that replay wasn't included, now that i think of it ;_;


----------



## DoomDash

I might have to go back to playing SCII on low because I'm thinking about selling this just built computer already. I need a car and I can live with SCII on low I think







.


----------



## thiru

Anyone watching Day9?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Anyone watching Day9?

I am now that you reminded me







.


----------



## listen to remix

Can someone help me troubleshoot a problem I'm having with the 3D videos? The mouths do not match the voices. I was wondering if it's B/C of my monitor because I'm getting 71 FPS so it's not the GPU.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

good point too

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Ive been trying the macro build today and have won 2-1 against platinum/diamond players.

The time I lost, it was a heavy MM push with ghosts for emp. He had 4 rax. I think the macro route is really hard against an early-midgame MM push especially with medivacs or ghosts. I had a couple immortals to help but his emp + heavy MM just focused down the immortals.

Playing against terran, after you stop the reaper rush, you have a good 5 minutes because the terran pushes and you gotta make sure you know what he does. The fast expo lossed me this game but he was really good. I'll keep practicing and tweeking my build to adjust to early MM push. I can usually stop an MM push if I dont get a fast expo though.

Yeah the macro build is really last few games in gold league. But still the early marine + tank, then thor plus bc, or zerg/muta, or mmm ball early as you said is really hard to deal with.

I'm a toss so course I'm baised, but zergling and mutas (esp in some of those 1v1 or 2v2 maps), as well as mmm ball is just way too op.


----------



## pelirrojo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Anyone watching Day9?

I like his casts quite a quite a quite a bit, yes indeed.


----------



## nova_prime

Zeratul is BADASS...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wish all dt's had blink and stasis.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Wish all dt's had blink and stasis.


I was actually thinking of a good expansion change. Give DT's the ablility to research charge at the DT shrine. It would be like Zealots charge except when they are charging they uncloak. It would be a spell you could enable / disable depending on if you need to be cloaked the entire time or not.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Huzzah! 50th zerg win. Finally got the baneling portrait


----------



## Madman340

I've been meaning to try this game out. I loved SC1. Anybody have an extra guest pass maybe?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Madman340*


I've been meaning to try this game out. I loved SC1. Anybody have an extra guest pass maybe?


Unless you're a pro gamer who prefers the game mechanics of SC1 over SC2, you can't not like SC2.


----------



## Madman340

I played a little competitively in SC1 so definitely would like to make sure the game mechanics are still fun for me before buying. Not South Korea-competitively mind you.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Unless you're a pro gamer who prefers the game mechanics of SC1 over SC2, you can't not like SC2.

Graphics haven't improved all that much either, you might not no the difference.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Graphics haven't improved all that much either, you might not no the difference.

you blind


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Huzzah! 50th zerg win. Finally got the baneling portrait









I fudging hate you muta speed baneling. FUDGEEGELKFJELKFJPE POIJ









so many maps are zergling favored.


----------



## Horsemama1956

The rust from the best is slowly going away so if anyone want to add me, feel free. Horsemama.593 1vs1 plat right now. Would be open to 2vs2 partners or anything really.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956* 
you blind

Actually. If you wanted to compare the games starcraft at the time was probably pretty good in its graphics. NOW though SC2 coming out when there are tons and tons of high quality graphics and bigger and better games coming out all the time ACTUALLY looks like garbage.

SC2 is probably the first game to come out this year that I can actually max out without a problem, which I think, is sad. I guess it is alright since it is an rts but I still think they could have done better and the game has I think a lot of unneeded stuff (like zoom, so pointless).

I just hope Diablo 3 doesn't look this bad.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Actually. If you wanted to compare the games starcraft at the time was probably pretty good in its graphics. NOW though SC2 coming out when there are tons and tons of high quality graphics and bigger and better games coming out all the time ACTUALLY looks like garbage.

SC2 is probably the first game to come out this year that I can actually max out without a problem, which I think, is sad. I guess it is alright since it is an rts but I still think they could have done better and the game has I think a lot of unneeded stuff (like zoom, so pointless).

I just hope Diablo 3 doesn't look this bad.

Blizzard has to keep the gfx to a minimum so that the game would run on a wider range of graphic cards. Personally, I think it looks great as it is and Blizzard is being pretty smart


----------



## DoomDash

SC2 looks pretty good to me.


----------



## Madman340

Mmm, nobody has an extra guest pass? Bummer.







I thought there were a lot of them floating around from SC2 launch.


----------



## thiru

Begging for keys is against the TOS.


----------



## Madman340

If that is classifiable as begging then I am the king of nonchalance.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956* 
The rust from the best is slowly going away so if anyone want to add me, feel free. Horsemama.593 1vs1 plat right now. Would be open to 2vs2 partners or anything really.

Funny you say you had rust, when you're already in platinum. That is crazy.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Madman340* 
Mmm, nobody has an extra guest pass? Bummer.







I thought there were a lot of them floating around from SC2 launch.

I just gave away my last. I tried to get rep for it but thats against the rules too apparently







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Madman340* 
Well, I can see why that would be against the rules, since you need rep to be able to sell things here, and if you just bought your way to the rep requirement it wouldn't be too safe to trade. Although I still don't see why it would be so bad to simply ask for an item that is seemingly overpopulated with a couple of posts that are very non-'beggish'.

@BigFan, I'd love it! But first I'll need your name so I know what to name my first born.









lol, PMing you the key now









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think the rep to sell thing is lame though. I mean, I have stuff I'd like to sell now ( my entire computer ) and I'm doing the best I can to help around here and at this rate it will take me 3 more months to sell anything. I suppose its in theory a better system than having to wait X months or X posts, but it just sucks I'm being punished because of others actions.

While I agree with you, I think its to make sure that you are dedicated to the site and that you would go through with the sale


----------



## DuckYy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbXyZpsUYA





Watch it! Probably the best zerg play I have ever seen. Better than idra, sen, etc...


----------



## thiru

Wow.. you can tell the protoss was completely off balance, he had 6k minerals.
Dunno why he didn't build pylons all over his base though...


----------



## ReaperMan

Yah I saw that game earlier today. It was truly the best zerg play I've seen. The use of Nydus canals was amazing.


----------



## Blooregard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0ZQaBVtsw





I guess you gotta do what it takes to beat the best.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wow.. you can tell the protoss was completely off balance, he had 6k minerals.
Dunno why he didn't build pylons all over his base though...

Yeah, and he was pretty stubborn about his unit composition. He kept going with stalkers long after it was clear that he needed some other stuff. And he refused to put any defense in some of his bases. It was too easy for the Zerg to level undefended buildings. That one base had a ton of cannons and other important areas had none. Would have been better to spread them around a little. And more pylons everywhere.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That toss is my new hero. Too bad he didn't do what HD was saying.

This zerg player tried to 6 pool me. I made so many mistakes in this game. But ended up wining with hero DTs.

BTW tips be appreciated.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Graphics haven't improved all that much either, you might not no the difference.


lol, wut?


----------



## gex80

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Graphics haven't improved all that much either, you might not no the difference.

Have you actually played the game?


----------



## BigFan

Well, just had a practice game, 1vs1, gave zerg a try and turned out my opponent was Terran. I ended up losing pretty badly. Guess now I see why they say MMM is OP. He pretty much fended off my early attack using nydus worms(should have waited slightly longer to wipe him-more zerglings then)and then attacked with air. Recovered and only discovered massive MMM and just like that, it was over








Lesson learned: don't take your time in practice matches even if they seem to, lol. Plan to take a look to see what steps he was taking, maybe see his route incase I encounter him again








I can upload the replay if anyone is interested in watching it for the lolz, but, it'll have to be much later


----------



## DoomDash

I'm in Diamond officially on my second account now too. I use Z on that account. I beat a 800 Diamond Terran to get promoted to Diamond. In fact hew as doing some really good harass the entire game, and was in disbelief when I wrecked his army after all of the harass. It went like "....." "well thats cool" "how did you get all those units?". hah was great.


----------



## gex80

i still don't know if I prefer protoss or terran. I like protoss cause I just recently discovered the warp prism and warpgate combo. I decided to take that a bit farther and keep a probe inside my prism and either keep it off the map in the event I get destroyed so I will always have a build unit left or I will drop off the probe after massing about 8-12 warp gates depending on my income and expansions, I'll have the prism drop off he probe near the base and warp in units while having my un warped units walk across the map so that way when the first volley is taken out(the warpped in units) I have another group coming up(even bigger group) coming in. So a sort of weaken them a bit and then beat them down.

Then there is terran, I like them for their beginning game but late game they just seem so expensive and I get starved for resources when I play them all the time not matter how many expansions. Like terran and gas just don't work for me. I always rule out of gas fast, the mule helps with minerals how ever. The have a good damage to price ratio. The MMM ball I rarely do. I start building a ball and say screw it I want tanks. That and I seem to have more trouble with building buildings more so with terran and protoss. I guess the protoss tech tree is more forward?

Also am I the only one who hates in co-op and people canon rush? It's like what is the point? The computer does not defend against that at all and takes away the fun. It's not like co-op is ranked and your league wins are separate from co-op wins. So why do people canon rush AI? I can understand in league games but co-op it just seems stupid.


----------



## Wishmaker

We need more PYLONS!!!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gex80* 
i still don't know if I prefer protoss or terran. I like protoss cause I just recently discovered the warp prism and warpgate combo. I decided to take that a bit farther and keep a probe inside my prism and either keep it off the map in the event I get destroyed so I will always have a build unit left or I will drop off the probe after massing about 8-12 warp gates depending on my income and expansions, I'll have the prism drop off he probe near the base and warp in units while having my un warped units walk across the map so that way when the first volley is taken out(the warpped in units) I have another group coming up(even bigger group) coming in. So a sort of weaken them a bit and then beat them down.

Then there is terran, I like them for their beginning game but late game they just seem so expensive and I get starved for resources when I play them all the time not matter how many expansions. Like terran and gas just don't work for me. I always rule out of gas fast, the mule helps with minerals how ever. The have a good damage to price ratio. The MMM ball I rarely do. I start building a ball and say screw it I want tanks. That and I seem to have more trouble with building buildings more so with terran and protoss. I guess the protoss tech tree is more forward?

Also am I the only one who hates in co-op and people canon rush? It's like what is the point? The computer does not defend against that at all and takes away the fun. It's not like co-op is ranked and your league wins are separate from co-op wins. So why do people canon rush AI? I can understand in league games but co-op it just seems stupid.

My question is why do you play coop?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm in Diamond officially on my second account now too. I use Z on that account. I beat a 800 Diamond Terran to get promoted to Diamond. In fact hew as doing some really good harass the entire game, and was in disbelief when I wrecked his army after all of the harass. It went like "....." "well thats cool" "how did you get all those units?". hah was great.

how many bases did yo uhave? out macro'd him?


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah. Pretty much I got away with a gold for a very long time. He did poor scouting and thats why he lost. He had so many advantages it wasn't even funny. He was amazed that he lost for real.

And maybe some of you guys would enjoy watching me screwing around getting some Infested Terrans achievements in a FFA. Infestors are soooo good. It's also a 40 minute game and I manage to average 105 APM







.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...rg-lost-temple

Enjoy.

PS yes I realize I forget a huge pile of drones lol! I was also too lazy to break the rocks ect, its a FFA dammit.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm in Diamond officially on my second account now too. I use Z on that account. I beat a 800 Diamond Terran to get promoted to Diamond. In fact hew as doing some really good harass the entire game, and was in disbelief when I wrecked his army after all of the harass. It went like "....." "well thats cool" "how did you get all those units?". hah was great.

Gz. You bought second copy just to play another race?


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah. Pretty much I got away with a gold for a very long time. He did poor scouting and thats why he lost. He had so many advantages it wasn't even funny. He was amazed that he lost for real.

And maybe some of you guys would enjoy watching me screwing around getting some Infested Terrans achievements in a FFA. Infestors are soooo good. It's also a 40 minute game and I manage to average 105 APM







.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...rg-lost-temple

Enjoy.

PS yes I realize I forget a huge pile of drones lol! I was also too lazy to break the rocks ect, its a FFA dammit.

Enjoyed watching that.

Great use of Inefestors. Glad the Spiz got stomped pretty quick. Wiped the internet hard-man persona pretty quick


----------



## DuckYy

Zerg is going to be the next "op" topic with the nydus worm. It looks very hard to defend against multiple nydus worms popping all over your base since you have to keep your army together. I think once the enemy has expo to 3 bases and he doesn't end it soon, zerg will just end the game with endless harassment.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
Zerg is going to be the next "op" topic with the nydus worm. It looks very hard to defend against multiple nydus worms popping all over your base since you have to keep your army together. I think once the enemy has expo to 3 bases and he doesn't end it soon, zerg will just end the game with endless harassment.

While the nydus worms are great to use, you need to have the vision of the area where you plan to have them pop up and then they take time to pop up giving your opponent enough time to kill them. Personally, I would love to see them just pop up with maybe a 5-10 sec delay, not the 15-20 it is ATM, if not more


----------



## Akhen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm in Diamond officially on my second account now too. I use Z on that account. I beat a 800 Diamond Terran to get promoted to Diamond. In fact hew as doing some really good harass the entire game, and was in disbelief when I wrecked his army after all of the harass. It went like "....." "well thats cool" "how did you get all those units?". hah was great.

Lot of players get in low tier diamond by doing the same strat over and over but gain no real practice in any other situations.

Anyways sounds like he needs to work on his macro if he had no army to counter you with.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Gz. You bought second copy just to play another race?









No, its for my second computer / gf / guests







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
Enjoyed watching that.

Great use of Inefestors. Glad the Spiz got stomped pretty quick. Wiped the internet hard-man persona pretty quick









Yeah I generally make a point to kill the a-holes first







.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah. Pretty much I got away with a gold for a very long time. He did poor scouting and thats why he lost. He had so many advantages it wasn't even funny. He was amazed that he lost for real.

And maybe some of you guys would enjoy watching me screwing around getting some Infested Terrans achievements in a FFA. Infestors are soooo good. It's also a 40 minute game and I manage to average 105 APM







.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...rg-lost-temple

Enjoy.

PS yes I realize I forget a huge pile of drones lol! I was also too lazy to break the rocks ect, its a FFA dammit.


THEY were diamond players? Maybe I don't have that much to worry about after all. =/


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckYy* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbXyZpsUYA

Watch it! Probably the best zerg play I have ever seen. Better than idra, sen, etc...

That was amazing at the start. But is he taking care of his base expansion while he is doing that?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


THEY were diamond players? Maybe I don't have that much to worry about after all. =/


No, they were not Diamond. I am Diamond so I posted it as Diamond. There are no leagues for FFA.

FFA = 99% awful players. Good for getting achievements.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, they were not Diamond. I am Diamond so I posted it as Diamond. There are no leagues for FFA.

FFA = 99% awful players. Good for getting achievements.


Drat. Oh well.


----------



## gex80

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


My question is why do you play coop?


Cause I find it fun. I'm not a gamer who tries to be the best so rank means nothing to me and I've always played my rts' against the computer. I never had a problem and the computer would never rage quit on me. The computer beats me from time to time and I beat it.

I'm not a competitive gamer. I never will be cause it takes the fun out of relaxing.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, its for my second computer / gf / guests







.

Yeah I generally make a point to kill the a-holes first







.


Hah, yeah. I did wonder actually. If I was in that same scenario, I'd probably concentrate on him first, purely because he sounded like an idiot. Backfire or what


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckYy*


Zerg is going to be the next "op" topic with the nydus worm. It looks very hard to defend against multiple nydus worms popping all over your base since you have to keep your army together. I think once the enemy has expo to 3 bases and he doesn't end it soon, zerg will just end the game with endless harassment.


I just did something like this in my game against a protoss player. I expanded early on, set up some defense and then did some scouting to see his tech level, what's he's building, etc.... Found out he's going for phoenixs and void rays so I massed some mutalisks and void rays. Then I continually harassed his base using nydus worms. I slipped an overload behind his nexus and just moved it within vision of the area then fill up the nydus worm with something like 30 zerglings, some roaches, etc.... and bam, I was able to take down his nexus after pulling this off twice. I was gonna do it one more time, this time with ultralisks to finish his base leaving him with only his smaller one but he caught on by then. While I see where the vision thing is coming from, I thought the idea of the nydus worms was surprise, so, I should technically be able to use them anywhere on the map. Thinking about what you wrote, yes, if you have something like 5+ popping up and then attack his base at the same time, he'll have a hard time destroying all 5 and defending since splitting up his force will devastate his damage output and might cause all 5 worms to survive the attack








Replay for those who are interested: http://www.mediafire.com/?cgy8cla30necfaj


----------



## xHassassin

Lol I won my first SC game yesterday at a buddy's house. 2 proxy barracks at 12 supply built at their natural expansion.










Apparently the guy was like platinum or something. I got really disappointed.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Lol I won my first SC game yesterday at a buddy's house. 2 proxy barracks at 12 supply built at their natural expansion.










Apparently the guy was like platinum or something. I got really disappointed.


You can cheese your way to platinum if that's what you want. Good luck learning how to actually play once you're there though.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't recommend cheese strats as they take away from gaining skill or learning out to actually play. I'm not saying never cheese but I recommend doing it not so often.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gex80*


Cause I find it fun. I'm not a gamer who tries to be the best so rank means nothing to me and I've always played my rts' against the computer. I never had a problem and the computer would never rage quit on me. The computer beats me from time to time and I beat it.

I'm not a competitive gamer. I never will be cause it takes the fun out of relaxing.


Not playing against real players takes away from the true game. The multiplayer is what sells this game.


----------



## gex80

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Not playing against real players takes away from the true game. The multiplayer is what sells this game.


I don't see how when I have fun with the computer.


----------



## DoomDash

While I 100% agree with Cory not everyone works the same way and I understand that. At times its hard to accept though







.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Not playing against real players takes away from the true game. The multiplayer is what sells this game.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *gex80*


I don't see how when I have fun with the computer.


To each his own.

On a positive note, I'm getting much better doing ZvT (MMM is so hard to deal with) and I think I've been winning 80-90% of my ZvP matches.

So my question to zerg players. How do you deal with MMM? The best I can come up with is a 30/70 sling/bling. Surround with slings and flank with blings. I almost always loose all of my units. Typically when I do ZvT I end up having to resource starve them to win which takes forever.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts*


To each his own.

On a positive note, I'm getting much better doing ZvT (MMM is so hard to deal with) and I think I've been winning 80-90% of my ZvP matches.

So my question to zerg players. How do you deal with MMM? The best I can come up with is a 30/70 sling/bling. Surround with slings and flank with blings. I almost always loose all of my units. Typically when I do ZvT I end up having to resource starve them to win which takes forever.


That's exactly the solution I settled on playing against AI. Those speedbanelings are the only Zerg unit I found that breaks up a big MMM ball until you can get 3rd-tier units out. Burrowed banelings are great against marines but it only takes one raven to render them useless.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


That's exactly the solution I settled on playing against AI. Those speedbanelings are the only Zerg unit I found that breaks up a big MMM ball until you can get 3rd-tier units out. Burrowed banelings are great against marines but it only takes one raven to render them useless.


Exactly, once I get to tier 3 the game is pretty much over. Broodlords + corrupters are next to impossible to defeat (given upgrades and balanced numbers) but I have to get their first. Against Protoss I can usually win mid-game if they spam void rays (mutas for the win) and inbetween early and mid if they spam ground units (lol overlord + nydus network) But I've yet to find a non cheese or all-in strategy that works against Terran.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts*


Exactly, once I get to tier 3 the game is pretty much over. Broodlords + corrupters are next to impossible to defeat (given upgrades and balanced numbers) but I have to get their first. Against Protoss I can usually win mid-game if they spam void rays (mutas for the win) and inbetween early and mid if they spam ground units (lol overlord + nydus network) But I've yet to find a non cheese or all-in strategy that works against Terran.


The speed upgrade for banelings is super important if the Terran has massed infantry. One thing you can do is have infestors spit out infested Terrans to soak up some enemy infantry fire, then have the banelings charge. More banelings get through that way.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


The speed upgrade for banelings is super important if the Terran has massed infantry. One thing you can do is have infestors spit out infested Terrans to soak up some enemy infantry fire, then have the banelings charge. More banelings get through that way.


If you do that though, they typically focus fire on your infestors unless you can body block them, but if you do that, smart players retreat their armies anyway. Lose-lose for zerg.


----------



## xHassassin

Eh, fungal growth works wonders on mmm balls.


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...m(T).SC2Replay

fun game vs terran. I probably could/should have done other things but hey, a win is a win~


----------



## thiru

Well this sucks, I'm in silver but I can't participate in the ESL Bronze/Silver every day cups simply because I'm in random 2v2 gold







(rules are must be below gold in all leagues).

It's really dumb because I got placed there thanks to easy placement matches and I've only played one random 2v2 which I actually lost.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well this sucks, I'm in silver but I can't participate in the ESL Bronze/Silver every day cups simply because I'm in random 2v2 gold







(rules are must be below gold in all leagues).

It's really dumb because I got placed there thanks to easy placement matches and I've only played one random 2v2 which I actually lost.

Lose on purpose?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Lose on purpose?

I was thinking of that








But maybe I should just work on getting 1v1 gold







(might take a while though.. I'm thinking of going random to know all the races better).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
To each his own.

On a positive note, I'm getting much better doing ZvT (MMM is so hard to deal with) and I think I've been winning 80-90% of my ZvP matches.

So my question to zerg players. How do you deal with MMM? The best I can come up with is a 30/70 sling/bling. Surround with slings and flank with blings. I almost always loose all of my units. Typically when I do ZvT I end up having to resource starve them to win which takes forever.


Normal units w/ infestors will wreck MMM. If not that, you can do ling/bane/muta. Make a point to get the marines before you send in muta. Baneling mines throughout the map are useful.


----------



## thiru

Well I just played a couple of placement 3v3 with random people who've played against me in the past... so much cheese








But nobody should take 3v3 or 4v4 seriously


----------



## thiagocosta85

OMG, Ive been playing SC1 since 1998, I waited 12 years for SC 2 to come out !!!.. This game is so HIGH END that It was able to blow up my Gforce 7950GX2 ... And I could NOT run the game in ULTRA graphics with the 7950 ... Now I bought a whole new system cause my video card blew up... Now I am expecting to run everything on ULTRA.







I hope a single GTX480 can handle it.

Lets play SC2, my in came name is HudsonMaBr usercode 900... Add me and we will hit 2v2 crystal league in no time...

Also I have a sourcecode for a MAP HACK in ASM, I will compile you a maphack if ur a noobie.







...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
OMG, Ive been playing SC1 since 1998, I waited 12 years for SC 2 to come out !!!.. This game is so HIGH END that It was able to blow up my Gforce 7950GX2 ... And I could NOT run the game in ULTRA graphics with the 7950 ... Now I bought a whole new system cause my video card blew up... Now I am expecting to run everything on ULTRA.







I hope a single GTX480 can handle it.

Lets play SC2, my in came name is HudsonMaBr usercode 900... Add me and we will hit 2v2 crystal league in no time...

Also I have a sourcecode for a MAP HACK in ASM, I will compile you a maphack if ur a noobie.







...

Umm dude your GPU probably blew up because SC2 has (or had? dunno if it's fixed) no FPS limit in the menu, causing GPU usage and temperatures to sky rocket... your 7950 fried because of Blizzard.

And no hack talk here please.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
OMG, Ive been playing SC1 since 1998, I waited 12 years for SC 2 to come out !!!.. This game is so HIGH END that It was able to blow up my Gforce 7950GX2 ... And I could NOT run the game in ULTRA graphics with the 7950 ... Now I bought a whole new system cause my video card blew up... Now I am expecting to run everything on ULTRA.







I hope a single GTX480 can handle it.

Lets play SC2, my in came name is HudsonMaBr usercode 900... Add me and we will hit 2v2 crystal league in no time...

Also I have a sourcecode for a MAP HACK in ASM, I will compile you a maphack if ur a noobie.







...

I run a single 480 and its amazing, all settings maxed







.

Almost at 700 ( 696 ) points and only 50 away from Tasteless. I'll let my bonus pool build up a day before I try and pass him.

Been beating lots of 900+ points players, but only getting "Match Even" points. Makes me mad







.

Also did some more achievements today, you can see what on my profile:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well I just played a couple of placement 3v3 with random people who've played against me in the past... so much cheese








But nobody should take 3v3 or 4v4 seriously









I really enjoy 4v4. It's probably my favorite


----------



## DoomDash

Probably my least favorite! lol. 1v1 is best, but stressful







.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Umm dude your GPU probably blew up because SC2 has (or had? dunno if it's fixed) no FPS limit in the menu, causing GPU usage and temperatures to sky rocket... your 7950 fried because of Blizzard.

And no hack talk here please.

WOW i really made the mistake of playing the game with out a FPS measurer


----------



## DoomDash

SCII has a built in FPS counter ( ALT + CONTROL + F ).

Yeah I capped my menu FPS to 30.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Probably my least favorite! lol. 1v1 is best, but stressful







.

1v1 is good since it tests only your skills and i hate dealing with turtling teammates. But when I play with a friend, id much rather play a team game. It's more exciting imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
SCII has a built in FPS counter ( ALT + CONTROL + F ).

Yeah I capped my menu FPS to 30.

Personally, cap my in game fps at 45, works like a charm









As for the mmm ball, banelings can work wonders if you plan them right at the entrance of your base and then detonate right when they are over. The fungal growth also works well, although, I haven't tried it(basing it on Doom's game). You could always try to use the parasite to take over marauders but if the opponent is smart, he'll kill your infestors to regain control(would be great to use that against tanks though). I think in the end, banelings underneath with fungal growth and a lot of lings+infested marines can go a long way








Something I noticed from my practice matches, is that mutalisks are pretty weak against phoenixes and vikings. I mean they are great for harassing someone and destroying their economy because of their speed, however, one on one they are pretty weak.


----------



## NrGx

Anyone watch the BratOK v Socke game? Badass Psistorms.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Umm dude your GPU probably blew up because SC2 has (or had? dunno if it's fixed) no FPS limit in the menu, causing GPU usage and temperatures to sky rocket... your 7950 fried because of Blizzard.

And no hack talk here please.

Sorry about the hack talk ... But there are many 130+APM players in custom games, and those players are impossible for non hackers with 60- APM to beat...
I personaly don't hack myself, I just had the curiosity to see if Blizzard uses any crc checks or something similar to prevent dll injection...

There are so many hackers already :'( ... if you are in a LEAGUE GAME, if a hacker drops you from the game, you dont get a win.

I just wish blizzard made it tougher... every update all they do is change the offset where the FOG OF WAR is... 10 Minutes of Olly DBG and you have the new offset.Very sad.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
Anyone watch the BratOK v Socke game? Badass Psistorms.

Sounds interesting, link?


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Sounds interesting, link?











You Tube





Here. Sorry should have put it in the original post


----------



## DoomDash

I haven't noticed any hackers yet.

Also I have never lost a 1v1 Custom game since beta. Seriously. 130 APM custom game players? I don't think so.... must be rare as heck.

I didn't like that bradOK vs Socke game. I really don't like how BratOK plays.. could be much better if he picked better units imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5Un...eature=channel

Here. Sorry should have put it in the original post









Thanks for link, no need to apologize


----------



## thiru

thiagocosta85, your signature is way too long, it's 8 lines max.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I haven't noticed any hackers yet.

Also I have never lost a 1v1 Custom game since beta. Seriously. 130 APM custom game players? I don't think so.... must be rare as heck.

I didn't like that bradOK vs Socke game. I really don't like how BratOK plays.. could be much better if he picked better units imo.

really? ... There are SO many ! ... Everytime I loose I check the replay... I am a good starcraft player (not close to the top ones) and, some replays reveal obvious hacking, specially on 1v1 match in a 8 locations map, enemy finds you cannon rush, wiht out EVER scouting(couldnt see you with probe yet to even make pylon).

I hate cheaters...

And yeah, if you play a game, check replay, in the replay you can see the APM ... Not that MANY high AMP players in custom obviously but, there are many mean players that LOVE owning noobs... And most custom gamers are not in crystal / platnum leagues.

But yeah , SCII is awesome, except zerg is a bit hard, requires extra micro skills.


----------



## Heret|c

O.K. now that we have established zerg sucks (or let's use the politically correct term: "requires more skill") who is more powerful terran or protoss?


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


O.K. now that we have established zerg sucks (or let's use the politically correct term: "requires more skill") who is more powerful terran or protoss?


I dont think zerg really is bad, It has its advantages, Like, if you are fast enough, you can pretty much stress the oponent all game long to prevent enough time for expanding etc, and it expands fast too and is cheaper and multiplies quicker,... On the other hand the units are too weak, and once they get the broodlords, its prettymuch game over, if u have a little air support...

But between Terran and Toss...

In my opinion, Terran is the easyest, but protoss is stronger if Terran doesnt take advantage of the EMP shockwave etc, ...

Idk it all depends, I am a protoss player myself..

I think that terran is stronger at the beginning, but after a little while, toss gets way too strong like, colussus own ANY ground organic units, while you can lift tanks, or even use immortals, ... but it all depends...

I got owned by terran while with Protoss a few times, and I got scared a few times lol... but prettymuch after you get a mother ship, it is prettymuch over if you keep it alive... Also Dark Templar WARP rush with the warp prism at minerals, will kill terran, unless he has FULL POWER inside the command center to scan 4 times.

But ... well that is just my opinion we all think different


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
While the nydus worms are great to use, you need to have the vision of the area where you plan to have them pop up and then they take time to pop up giving your opponent enough time to kill them. Personally, I would love to see them just pop up with maybe a 5-10 sec delay, not the 15-20 it is ATM, if not more









While you do need vision, you only need it for a second to build a nydus worm and its not hard for zerg to have vision over the map. They are the most mobile race in the game. The nydus worm doesn't even have to do damage to be effective. Just making the enemy's army move back to defend and containing them gives the zerg more map control. Even against a mobile army, it takes a few seconds for it to get to the nydus worm. By then, you can run a few zerlings in their mineral lines, burrow some roaches, make another nydus canal at the front/expo, or just simply expand again (just like what mystic did).

A 5-10 build time is just too overpowered. Unless you have defense there or your army is close by, you'll get rape. It takes 5 secs for a warp in and that's if it isn't on cool down.

I think the nydus worm should be like the nydus canal in sc1. It must have creep to be built. With the overlord ability to create creep, I don't think it'll be as bad as it was in sc1. That way, you can defend from it a little easier and the zerg player just can't spam it every where. Also, static defenses (turrets), can warded off them. Good idea or not?

@thiagocosta85
No. Just no...


----------



## DoomDash

I can play all 3 races very well. Personally I think P is the easiest to play, followed by Z, followed by T. You can play a very simple and rather effective T with just bio, but if you play a good player he'll slaughter you if you are still using MMM. So those Terrans who depend on bio are going to fail.

and no one said Zerg sucks. Zerg is awesome. Best macro ever! Love them.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


who is more powerful terran or protoss?


According to statistics terran is played the most, then protoss, then zerg, then random.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


According to statistics terran is played the most, then protoss, then zerg, then random.


You sure about that? I think Protoss has SLIGHTLY more players than Terran atm.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You sure about that? I think Protoss has SLIGHTLY more players than Terran atm.


Pretty sure but can't find the site I found a bunch of stats from earlier, going to look for it now.

EDIT : http://www.sc2replayed.com/statistics

According to that though it's Protoss,Terran,Zerg, Random but that is only of replays and not of every actual game so it will be off.


----------



## DoomDash

I was right:

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Guess everyone got bored playing terran :/

Although from global statistics terran is still ahead by a tiny bit.


----------



## DoomDash

Nah I'm pretty sure its been that way since beta. Protoss is easy to look at / pick up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85*


really? ... There are SO many ! ... Everytime I loose I check the replay... I am a good starcraft player (not close to the top ones) and, some replays reveal obvious hacking, specially on 1v1 match in a 8 locations map, enemy finds you cannon rush, wiht out EVER scouting(couldnt see you with probe yet to even make pylon).

I hate cheaters...

And yeah, if you play a game, check replay, in the replay you can see the APM ... Not that MANY high AMP players in custom obviously but, there are many mean players that LOVE owning noobs... And most custom gamers are not in crystal / platnum leagues.

But yeah , SCII is awesome, except zerg is a bit hard, requires extra micro skills.










No doubt. lots of cheaters, but zerg hard? lol. They need the least micro.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


No doubt. lots of cheaters, but zerg hard? lol. They need the least micro.


They need tons of micro. Zerglings, Muta's... fast, and generally used to run by things or run away when needed.


----------



## NrGx

I've given up haha. I get smashed in Bronze league as well. Maybe I'm actually just the worst player in the world - I'll stick to HoN


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
No doubt. lots of cheaters, but zerg hard? lol. They need the least micro.

Zerg needs way more micro than Terran. MMM balls require hardly any micro. Those actually work best when all the units are jumbled together in a homogenous mass, and the medevacs have autocast. I haven't seen any sort of a potent attack force that requires less micro than MMM.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Zerg needs way more micro than Terran. MMM balls require hardly any micro. Those actually work best when all the units are jumbled together in a homogenous mass, and the medevacs have autocast. I haven't seen any sort of a potent attack force that requires less micro than MMM.

Yeah MMM balls just requires attack/backup at most.. which is the simplest form of micro I think.

You always have to watch banelings and speedlings because they're so damn fast and vulnerable and need to move in at the right time with their backup. Infestors are incredibly weak with a small range for fungal growth.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Zerg needs way more micro than Terran. MMM balls require hardly any micro. Those actually work best when all the units are jumbled together in a homogenous mass, and the medevacs have autocast. I haven't seen any sort of a potent attack force that requires less micro than MMM.

MMM micro isn't much different than any other micro really. It's not as hard as mech micro or anything but in certain situations it needs more micro and control than most things. Plus factor ghosts in that bunch.


----------



## DuckYy

MMM does require quite a bit of mirco. Since MMM clump up so easy, against any type of AOE type unit, you need to split up your units so you just don't get steamrolled. It requires a bit of practice to do with the stim.

The easiest is race to mirco is probably protoss. Force field is a god sent.


----------



## DoomDash

I put my SC2 sig card in my sig... sadly no sharing images in them oh well.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
MMM micro isn't much different than any other micro really. It's not as hard as mech micro or anything but in certain situations it needs more micro and control than most things. Plus factor ghosts in that bunch.

I don't see how MMM micro is not exceptionally easy. It's the only really powerful force I've seen that functions best as a big homogenous blob. MMM forces are called "balls" for a reason. And there's no casting involved with MMM. It's just a big ball of death that moves and attacks as one mass. What could be simpler than that?


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I don't see how MMM micro is not exceptionally easy. It's the only really powerful force I've seen that functions best as a big homogenous blob. MMM forces are called "balls" for a reason. And there's no casting involved with MMM. It's just a big ball of death that moves and attacks as one mass. What could be simpler than that?

Against zerg, MMM (Marines, Maraders, and Medivac) doesn't really need to worry unless zerg is spamming infestors (can one really spam infestors?); however, against protoss, MMM may be really hard to micro seeing as you'll want 1 hotkey set to the whole unit, 1 set for half, another set for half, and maybe another set for ghosts so they can get out of Psi storms (although Protoss should be getting hammered with EMPs)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I don't see how MMM micro is not exceptionally easy. It's the only really powerful force I've seen that functions best as a big homogenous blob. MMM forces are called "balls" for a reason. And there's no casting involved with MMM. It's just a big ball of death that moves and attacks as one mass. What could be simpler than that?

You obviously are not a Terran player. Microing MMM is pretty hard especially later game.

Against Protoss : Storm dodging, I spread out my troops in groups so they don't form lines vs Colossus, knowing when to stim or not to stim, specifically if you stim vs Colossus your marines will die in 1 less hit, avoiding forcefields, kiting, marauders targeting armored units, ghosts EMPing immortals and targeting light units ( sentry / zealots ), ect ect. Targeting is very important, as well as spreading them out.

Against Z : Marines targeting lings / hydra, kiting, marauders targeting roach / infestor / ultra, avoiding banelings is very difficult at times as speedlings can surround, keep your units spread out to avoid fungael growth, ect ect.

Really it's not any different than anything else? I mean whats so hard about Protoss micro? It's the same damn thing to be honest. Same goes for Zerg but its more dependent on surrounds and using speed to your advantage. It's all about the same.

No good T's 1A and win, you're thinking of lower level T's who 1A and win... but TBH it's the opponents they are facing that suck and can't learn to deal with 1A Terran.


----------



## cory1234

If you guys haven't checked out these sites you definitely should:

http://www.starcraftarena.net/

http://www.sc2ranks.com/

I just won the SC2 Thunderdome Tournament last night







:

http://www.sc2thunderdome.com/index....157&Itemid=182

Finally got new internet so I'm playing on my setup again. Still need to get this stupid wireless keyboard/mouse replaced tho.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

did you get any prize?


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Actually. If you wanted to compare the games starcraft at the time was probably pretty good in its graphics. NOW though SC2 coming out when there are tons and tons of high quality graphics and bigger and better games coming out all the time ACTUALLY looks like garbage.

SC2 is probably the first game to come out this year that I can actually max out without a problem, which I think, is sad. I guess it is alright since it is an rts but I still think they could have done better and the game has I think a lot of unneeded stuff (like zoom, so pointless).

I just hope Diablo 3 doesn't look this bad.

You wrote in your previous post, "Graphics haven't improved all that much either, *you might not no the difference.*"

You ARE blind if you cannot tell the difference and said that the graphics haven't improved.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
did you get any prize?

Nah, it was just for fun. Most of the prize tourneys you have to pay to enter or invitational only.


----------



## PiratesRule

noob question.

Ok, I play terran. I set hotkey 1 to my main army. Can I set the rally point for my barracks to hotkey 1? Or do I have to set the rally point to just one unit?


----------



## DoomDash

Just one unit.

Rally points in beta were better. They attack moved instead of just moved. Makes me sad.


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiratesRule* 
noob question.

Ok, I play terran. I set hotkey 1 to my main army. Can I set the rally point for my barracks to hotkey 1? Or do I have to set the rally point to just one unit?

You use 1 for ALL your units? Start splitting them up into multiple groups.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiratesRule* 
noob question.

Ok, I play terran. I set hotkey 1 to my main army. Can I set the rally point for my barracks to hotkey 1? Or do I have to set the rally point to just one unit?

AFAIK it has to be on one unit. Pick a tough one.


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Nah I'm pretty sure its been that way since beta. Protoss is easy to look at / pick up.

Pretty much. Basically 4 gate every game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
No doubt. lots of cheaters, but zerg hard? lol. They need the least micro.

Yeah, and they're way more complicated to macro.


----------



## PiratesRule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pewpewlazer* 
You use 1 for ALL your units? Start splitting them up into multiple groups.

I use 1 for all of my marines and marauders for now. I'm slowly working my way up.


----------



## mfb412

Can someone give me a fill on what MMM is, how all the macros work and how to create them, etc?
i just finished the campaign and i want to train for a while before going online


----------



## thiru

MMM is the marine marauder medivac combo (add ghosts if against protoss).

If by macro you mean control groups, then select a group of units/buildings you want, press CTRL + # (any number from 1 to 9, not sure if 0 works). Now you can recall that group by pressing the same #. You can add units to that group by pressing SHIFT+#.


----------



## DoomDash

Add ghosts for infestors too. Honestly I think bio sucks vs Z though... well not sucks but is hit or miss.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

i don't think so. It's just so easy to go mmm vs muta/ling/bane


----------



## DoomDash

Not for me. Can never win with bio in Diamond personally. My TvZ build now is way cooler / more fun anyway.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...-scrap-station

That > Bio!









BTW I lost to that guy the game before. He is a 950 Z player? Or 850 I forget.


----------



## Heret|c

Well you guises, I just started to play ranked so I just kept doing 6 pool rush, and I won and I got placed in sliver leagues, but now everyone keeps on building buildings on the entrance and defeating all my zerglings all the time ...

I'm so frustrated now, I think zerg sucks I'm going to switch to a terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg sucks because you can't win 6 pooling all the time? Lol man you won't win with any race w/ that attitude. You shouldn't be learning how to cheese, you should actually learn how to play. Picking Terran won't help you.


----------



## Heret|c

you don't understand ... I just want to pwn all the noobs very fast, cos it's my style


----------



## thiru

Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mfb412*


Can someone give me a fill on what MMM is, how all the macros work and how to create them, etc?
i just finished the campaign and i want to train for a while before going online


Macro doesn't refer to the type of macro you're thinking of (like G15 keyboard macro). There are two parts to the game: micro and macro. As the names imply, micro is the little things (pulling back wounded units in battle, using their abilities, etc) and macro is the big picture (building a strong economy with lots of probes/drones/scvs, expanding, and constantly producing units even when you're out controlling your army)


----------



## listen to remix

What are your APMs? I just checked mine and it was only 72


----------



## DoomDash

70+ w/ T. 90~ with P, and I can get 110 with Z if I'm playing hard.


----------



## mfb412

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pewpewlazer*


Macro doesn't refer to the type of macro you're thinking of (like G15 keyboard macro). There are two parts to the game: micro and macro. As the names imply, micro is the little things (pulling back wounded units in battle, using their abilities, etc) and macro is the big picture (building a strong economy with lots of probes/drones/scvs, expanding, and constantly producing units even when you're out controlling your army)


i see, gotta keep practising, HARD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


What are your APMs? I just checked mine and it was only 72










Actions per minute.
the korean pros pull 200+ most of the time


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


What are your APMs? I just checked mine and it was only 72










Don't worry about apm. It naturally gets higher as you get better and play more. In sc1 I had like 100 apm when I first started and i can consistently do like 180-190 now.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcacheese* 
Don't worry about apm. It naturally gets higher as you get better and play more. In sc1 I had like 100 apm when I first started and i can consistently do like 180-190 now.

I dont know... ive been playing SC1 since it came out and my APM is also 72 or so when im playing for real

maybe i just need some caffeine


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ROFl that's crazy, my max average is around 62.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I don't care about APM. I do what I need to or can at any given time.

I've seen people cheat their APMs up at the start by simply selecting everything they can as fast as possible while they have nothing to do. What's the point?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
ROFl that's crazy, my max average is around 62.

60+ is enough for diamond so dont worry

but obviously the more the better


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
I don't care about APM. I do what I need to or can at any given time.

I've seen people cheat their APMs up at the start by simply selecting everything they can as fast as possible while they have nothing to do. What's the point?

Yea I NEVER EVER spam my apm.. i can really care less about that number as long as it is high when i need it to be


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yea I NEVER EVER spam my apm.. i can really care less about that number as long as it is high when i need it to be

The pros do it. I'm sure it can't hurt to practice clicking fast and trying to be precise when there is nothing to do







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Spamming APM helps imo. I always do like 456456456 whenever my left hand has nothing else to do, so it's easier to spot things like idle production buildings, workers not being made, chronoboost/mule ready etc. Just got used to it somehow, but recently I'm starting to think it could be better used elsewhere as I sometimes find myself spamming instead of doing something I should. The good thing is that it kind of gets your fingers in the rhythm so it's easy to maintain constant APM throughout the entire game.

On the other hand I believe that APM should be looked at as an another resource in the game so it's better not to waste it.


----------



## BigFan

Speaking of APM, I just checked mine when watching a previous replay of a practice game I recently won and my average was 65. I did notice a 144, 120, etc... spikes in my current one, but, meh, average is the key. I will likely bring that up the more I play with Zerg


----------



## cory1234

Apm doesn't matter as much in SC2 compared to Brood Wars. Anything over 70 is enough to play high level diamond, and anything over 110 is fast enough to be pro if your good at micro.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Tbf, I've watched alot of Pro replays, and APM seems over-rated.

Most people repeatedly press the same order, or cycle between hotkeys for no reason, to beef it up. Or just mildly, like setting pointless way-points around the same area.

I think it's a matter of quality over quantity.

Although I'm no pro, so I guess my points don't have much credibility.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Apm doesn't matter as much in SC2 compared to Brood Wars. Anything over 70 is enough to play high level diamond, and anything over 110 is fast enough to be pro if your good at micro.

I agree, mostly surprised that mine was 65. Started out at 54 or so and went to 65 by the end of game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
Tbf, I've watched alot of Pro replays, and APM seems over-rated.

Most people repeatedly press the same order, or cycle between hotkeys for no reason, to beef it up. Or just mildly, like setting pointless way-points around the same area.

I think it's a matter of quality over quantity.

Although I'm no pro, so I guess my points don't have much credibility.

It is over-rated, because, it's very easy to spam a key. I mean take an overload and press 10 times where you want him to move


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Man.. the ability to user your apm to manage 3-4 fighting fronts as well as macro at the same time.... proo.


----------



## Coma

Your average APM doesn't matter. A high average APM shows a mindless player. What really matters is your ability to peak at 200-300 APM for several minutes. Near the end of the game that stretched out, there should be constant simultaneous battles on multiple fronts and you should have a lot of bases that need taking care of. Early game is also kind of APM intensive, since that's where micro is done most (Stalker micro requires about 200 APM, for example).

In the end, you can't really look at a single game and determine your average APM. If I play a game where cheese against me failed and it ended quickly, without any intensive battles, my APM can be as low as 40. A game that requires quite a bit of micro can put me at 80-100 average, depending on how long it stretches for.

In the end, it's finger dexterity and mental agility that count, not really your APM. You can have high APM and still be terrible at making precise movements, which are required to actually make use of all that APM.


----------



## Razaroth

If anyone has APM above 100 for the first minute or so of the game, thats when you know theres a problem









-- Waited for this game just about 10 years, and it didnt disappoint. Also, if i heard right, theres 2 'already made' expansions to be released (who the hell knows when)! Time to go cha-cha some more from happiness.


----------



## GodofGrunts

I'm so bad at this game.

But I love every minute of losing. :3

Getting better with time though. Maybe one day I can get into silver!


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
I'm so bad at this game.

But I love every minute of losing. :3

Getting better with time though. Maybe one day I can get into silver!









hehe, i was horrible at SC1 in 1v1, mainly because I felt like there werent many openings you could go with, so I just played 3v3 and 2v2v2v2. But Brood war came out and by then i was already put off with the game. NOw with SC2, there are soo many more options and even though most would agree that Terran has a slight advantage early and mid-game, the game overall is balanced at medium and beginner style play I play only 1v1 cause i dont know enough people i could play with consistently at 2v2 or 3v3.

Learn your stage 1 and 2 units and what they counter, their strenght and weakness and just keep improving one skill at a time. Wheather its countering your oponent, scouting early, mid and late game, macroing(controlling multiple expos, building while attacking etc..) or microing(controlling unit groups in battle formations, focus fire etc..)


----------



## Heret|c

I feel like Zerg suck so bad, in fact I wonder if Protoss can just rush with their probes,
because their probes are more powerful than zerglings!

Also terran are so much more oped, their starter unit has the ability to shoot up and down,
so all you do is just have a bunch of marines hiding behind the wall of barracks/supply depots, and you can't even get your banelings anywhere close, it's like throwing a bunch of burger meat in a fan.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You Tube





lol troll


----------



## Wishmaker

Any news on a patch to improve performance?


----------



## koven

For those that are running 1080p Ultra, what kind of FPS are you getting?


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Any news on a patch to improve performance?

What.
The.
Hell.
On my Q6600 @ 3 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 800 and a 4850 i pulled over 40FPS permanently at 1680x1050, how can you even ask that with a 5870?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koven* 
For those that are running 1080p Ultra, what kind of FPS are you getting?

i ran ultra at 1680x1050 with the system i said above with 40+FPS, your 460 should handle it beautifully


----------



## Heret|c

I use 5760 x 1080 but the fps is all across the board, if I'm just starting out in a locale all by myself, I get 90's, if there are a lot of units on screen it may get into 30's. I turned all GPU intensive features s to ultra and all CPU dependant features to lowest.


----------



## NrGx

You Tube  



 
Unbelievable toss play!


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *koven*


For those that are running 1080p Ultra, what kind of FPS are you getting?


I'm running ultra at 1680x1050 on a gts250.
Consistently 45-50 fps which is perfectly fine in my opinion. It might dip down to 30's when a lot of things are happening but that doesn't happen very often and 30 isn't even really low or anything.


----------



## Tchernobyl

1920x1200 on my sig rig, get 60-80 fps on ultra









unless i play desert strike, with tons of units on screen... oh god lag


----------



## Moheevi_chess

If anyone wants to practice 1v1s hit me up. SoLoDoLo.763 North America server ... I play Protoss.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NrGx*


[fdurl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxsJaPT14uM&feature=sub[/url]

Unbelievable toss play!


Wow, I never thought of shift-moving-blink to have the stalkers move smoothly..


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxsJaPT14uM&feature=sub

Unbelievable toss play!

I saw that a while ago too. VERY VERY COOL.

THe other hd casted vids for xel cavern the tos got screwed up by zerg micro. Hd says zerg would have a tough time to defend their expo, but in reality it's always the zerg who can take avatar of the openings, esp on that map.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wow, I never thought of shift-moving-blink to have the stalkers move smoothly..

I saw it on a video a few weeks ago. Really cool trick. Shift, blink, then short waypoint out of it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
I saw it on a video a few weeks ago. Really cool trick. Shift, blink, then short waypoint out of it.

Are you still not playing multiplayer ?


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Are you still not playing multiplayer ?









No


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc* 
No









Nooo I need more European SC2 friends!


----------



## DoomDash

or an NA account







.


----------



## Cretz

Anyone want to practice right now? PM me, Id like to get better as Terran.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
or an NA account







.

lol no way I'm dropping 40-60 euro again for SC2 when there are 2 expansions coming out









I'm waiting for the cross region patch to come out :S I hope it's not vaporware, I haven't read any news about it in a long time








Just having cross region custom games would be awesome!


----------



## gex80

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Just having cross region custom games would be awesome!

Except when your teammates don't speak a language you understand.


----------



## Cretz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gex80* 
Except when your teammates don't speak a language you understand.

Most people Ive played with can't even bother to say hello.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gex80* 
Except when your teammates don't speak a language you understand.

Part of the point of custom games is choosing who you play with/against.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cretz* 
Most people Ive played with can't even bother to say hello.

I didn't know SC2 was a chatroom :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cretz* 
Most people Ive played with can't even bother to say hello.

Yep, which is the reason I stopped saying Hello. That and I felt bad for beating them if they seemed nice
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
I didn't know SC2 was a chatroom :/

Well, saying Hi or hello makes them seem more human don't you think?









Personally, I'm getting tired of playing practice games. It's the same 3 maps and the entrances are ALWAYS blocked which makes it annoying to move an army early in the game since you would have to destroy the rocks. Having said that, it means that one can use this as an advantage by using the high ground for seige tanks, colossus or likely hydras as well as building some d behind the rocks


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yep, which is the reason I stopped saying Hello. That and I felt bad for beating them if they seemed nice
















Well, saying Hi or hello makes them seem more human don't you think?









Personally, I'm getting tired of playing practice games. It's the same 3 maps and the entrances are ALWAYS blocked which makes it annoying to move an army early in the game since you would have to destroy the rocks. Having said that, it means that one can use this as an advantage by using the high ground for seige tanks, colossus or likely hydras as well as building some d behind the rocks









It encourages turtling as well as air units (void rays, mutalisks etc) and leaves you completely vulnerable to early game pushes in the real leagues.

Nobody should play the 50 practice games.


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
I didn't know SC2 was a chatroom :/

If you're playing with a team mate, it partially is.

Teamwork = win.

Always.


----------



## DoomDash

Practice games are stupid as heck.


----------



## ThumperSD

practice games are soooooo slow


----------



## Cindex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Personally, I'm getting tired of playing practice games. It's the same 3 maps and the entrances are ALWAYS blocked which makes it annoying to move an army early in the game since you would have to destroy the rocks.

So skip the rest? I only played three of them.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Although most don't say anything, there's more RP these last couple games. Zerg or terran will say something like "go back to auir", or "we screwd up auir" etc. I'm protoss and some times they'll curse at me in some anti protoss racial stuff.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcacheese* 
I'm running ultra at 1680x1050 on a gts250.
Consistently 45-50 fps which is perfectly fine in my opinion. It might dip down to 30's when a lot of things are happening but that doesn't happen very often and 30 isn't even really low or anything.

Try playing Nexus wars...


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


Try playing Nexus wars...










Well, yeah, my fps drops to like the teens during custom games with 100s of units on the screen at once but like 90% of my time is spent in 1v1/2v2 so I'm fine.









And, yeah, practice games are pretty stupid even if its your first time playing. Playing with a computer is probably a lot better as a first time since you can actually move out/be attacked. The early rocks makes it feel like you're playing by yourself.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


Try playing Nexus wars...










Some zerg defense games are way worse... in 30 minutes you kill 15,000+ zergs and during the last minute I always get overrun and literally the whole screen is filled with ultralisks.


----------



## Heret|c

Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill 
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill 
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.


Queens can infuse to heal. Zerg units regenerate all of their HP anyhow if they don't die first. The Zerg strategy is not one to kill and not be killed. Zerg is meant to overwhelm with numbers, ignoring losses because they can make more.

2 is not even a factor. Protoss can only build near pylons, which is the same as the creep.

For 1 - zerglings are useful in the very early stages of the game and when used mixed in with large numbers of other units. They are not meant to be an overwhelming force.

The Zerg strategy usually revolves around 1) Controlling the map or two 2) killing VERY quickly. The Zerg do have deficiencies, but not for most of the reasons you list. Number 5 is probably the biggest issue.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL troll.

I guess thats why there are still many top zerg players, cus what you said, zerg sucks.


----------



## Heret|c

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Queens can infuse to heal. Zerg units regenerate all of their HP anyhow if they don't die first. The Zerg strategy is not one to kill and not be killed. Zerg is meant to overwhelm with numbers, ignoring losses because they can make more.


It's kind of hard to heal with a queen, because she is always near hatchery, out of energy spawning larvae, and only can heal once in a while. And also if you spawn the creep tumer you are going to be out of energy for larvae.

Also amassing large numbers of mutalisks is problematic because each of them costs insane quantities of gas.

To the yellowtoblerone troll above me: hey go look at the most plaid races zerg is the last, Protoss and Terran are more powerful than Zerg, and majority of people agree with me. Now please go away and troll somewhere else.

Just because there was some legendary uber 1337 guy who managed to win with zerg against some noob one time doesn't change the facts.


----------



## NrGx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill 
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.


My head hurts.


----------



## rustler753

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill 
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.


1) Zealots are melee only as well.

2) Creep can advance quickly, tumors can spawn other tumors

3) Its easy and mandatory to expand, 5 drones to establish most of your tech isnt alot. 300 minerals vs 400 for a main base.

4) Protoss can't repair either, units can self heal on creep in cases.

5) Crono boost, scan or mule, everyone has abilities to use.

You forgot to mention how good zerg are at map control, which is like a huge deal.


----------



## Realcacheese

Not saying it's necessarily harder.. but zerg is extremely newb-unfriendly. A lot of zerg's strengths require at least a decent knowledge of the game to fully take advantage of and zerg's units are overall at least slightly weaker than their terran/protoss versions.

Being able to mass produce only workers or only fighting units, insane map control, and the ability to expand much quicker than other races isn't exactly something easy to do for someone who just started playing.

Although, arguably, zerg is slightly weaker or at least more unpopular than the other two races at the high level; if you look at statistics of the top few hundred players, there aren't as many zergs are the other two races.


----------



## sorrowfool

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
It's kind of hard to heal with a queen, because she is always near hatchery, out of energy spawning larvae, and only can heal once in a while. And also if you spawn the creep tumer you are going to be out of energy for larvae.

Also amassing large numbers of mutalisks is problematic because each of them costs insane quantities of gas.

To the yellowtoblerone troll above me: hey go look at the most plaid races zerg is the last, Protoss and Terran are more powerful than Zerg, and majority of people agree with me. Now please go away and troll somewhere else.

Just because there was some legendary uber 1337 guy who managed to win with zerg against some noob one time doesn't change the facts.

I don't remember any plaid races in SC2, but I'm not sure what Terrans wear under their uniforms. Do boxers count?

Anyway, looking at the Top 20 of the Top 200 it is broken down to:

Terran 11
Protoss 6
Zerg 3

Seems like Zerg are a bit behind, but not for any of the reasons you said in your previous post.

1. Protoss have the same issue, however Protoss Tier 1.5 has air, Zerg doesn't. We have Queens for air defense. Two Queens in your base will stthrow down Creep Tumors.

2. Protoss can only build near a Pylon... plus, Zerg can fly their "Pylons" around. They can build anywhere an Overlord is overhead.

3. This does suck but Zerg can make 3 drones at once, and have 1/5 of the buildings of the other races. Plus, the cost is adjusted for this.

4. Zerg buildings don't explode when they go in the red... in fact they can heal to full on their own. Plus, they spawn Broodlings when they die. (This actually saved me once or twice)

5. Chrono Boost, Mule, and Inject Larva. All intended to force player into Macro-centric decisions. It sucks but is intended.

Anyway, there are some imba problems, but I'd rather play the game than complain about them. Plus, I like playing the race that is considered underpowered. Makes my wins that much more gratifying.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sorrowfool* 
2. Protoss can only build near a Pylon... plus, Zerg can fly their "Pylons" around. They can build anywhere an Overlord is overhead.

3. This does suck but Zerg can make 3 drones at once, and have 1/5 of the buildings of the other races. Plus, the cost is adjusted for this.

4. Zerg buildings don't explode when they go in the red... in fact they can heal to full on their own. Plus, they spawn Broodlings when they die. (This actually saved me once or twice)

5. Chrono Boost, Mule, and Inject Larva. All intended to force player into Macro-centric decisions. It sucks but is intended.

2. true, but you arguably need 2 expensive upgrades to do so. A) lair, and b) overlord speed, otherwise it's beyond sloooooooooooow. Both costing gas.

3. They have 1/5th of the buildings, but destroying that single building will cut off the production ability of that unit unless you have a duplicate of the building. Which does not match the other races at all since they will have multiple buildings to make multiple units regardless.

4. True, but overall the healing speed of the buildings and/or units (except a burrowed upgraded roach) is quite low, almost pathetic.

5. chrono and mule don't have a drawback per se. If you miss them, oh well (though chrono boost is a bigger loss). If you miss larva, it's a much bigger issue. mules are pure bonuses, with no drawback at all.


----------



## DoomDash

ohhhhhhhhhhh my goddddddddddddddddddd. Seriously modern warfare you couldn't have a more simplistic idea of Starcraft II.

I mean that entire post you listing off why Z is the worst is completely not thought out even remotely. I'm not even trying to talk **** I'm just telling you there could not be a more simplistic one sided way of looking at things. You don't even consider the Zerg advantages, or factor in anything that's realitve to the argument.

Zerg is amazing, /end. If I hear anymore Z players whine about Z I might tear my eyes out.


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.

1. 2 ling = 50 minerals, 1 marine = 50 minerals. 2 ling > 1 marine. If you're going to attack a ball of marines with a slightly greater or equal amount of lings, you're wrong. Don't caught in a bad position with lings, then they can be a great asset through out the entire match.

2. I don't consider this a weakness. Creep tumors and 300 mineral hatcheries are good. Creep aids your units.

3. Zerg structures are relatively cheap compared to p and t. Each race build differently and they all have pros and cons associated with zerg being no worst than the others.

4. All zerg units regen automatically, creep aids that process too. Terran only repair mechanical vehicles. Medvacs heal bio but it costs minerals, gas, and supply to build them and they are limited to energy.

5. Queens ability to spawn larva means zerg is the fastest to micro up units in a pinch and don't forget about the 300 mineral hatcheries. You need quick re-enforcements? Well good thing you got those upgraded lings to easily spawn to your rally point, right? Many times has 10,14,20,etc lings been the extra oomph after a draw in a battle to topple my opponent.

By the way I'm a dedicated zerg player right now and I have to say that zerg is greater than protoss if you have your macro down. I got to say terran is slightly op in all the wrong spots for z/t. I personally don't think it would to much to fix the balance issues.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It encourages turtling as well as air units (void rays, mutalisks etc) and leaves you completely vulnerable to early game pushes in the real leagues.

Nobody should play the 50 practice games.

I might do a couple more practice games then jump into the real league









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Practice games are stupid as heck.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
practice games are soooooo slow

Well, I wouldn't say stupid or soo slow, but, yes, I find that in my recent games I've started relying on air units a lot more compared to ground. Personally, would love to flood someone's base with zerglings but I find that terran players seem to go for air units, mostly lots of vikings and then some go for banshees and considering that in some of my matches, I used to take my time to make air units or forget to lay down some spore structures for defense, I would love my drones and the whole game for that mistake. I've since learned to make sure to lay down a couple of spore structures around my base for this exact scenario









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cindex* 
So skip the rest? I only played three of them.

Likely will after a couple more, I just don't wanna jump in and lose all 5 of my games









Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers. Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill zerglings even before they can get close.
*First, you get two zerglings for the price of one marine. The time it takes to build a barracks is pretty close to the time it takes to make a pool and then by the time, they decide to mass marines to attack you, you could mass zerglings to counter. Yes, marines do have range to attack zerglings and can give you air defense however it's pretty weak in comparison to other air units. Decent in groups but still marines and zerglings are both good starter units







*

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.
*Might be true, two things to consider. First, base management can be pretty annoying for terrans and second you could spread creep ALL over a terran's base preventing them from being able to build any structures until they kill your overloads. An interesting strategy to consider but one that I haven't tried yet. Protoss need pylons as well, so, your point is somewhat mute.*

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.
*Correct they do, however making workers is pretty quick and won't set you back. Also, consider that destroying zerg buildings releases broodlings which could help in eliminating some of the attacker's force unlike the protoss where destroying a pylon stops the building from functioning or terran where you get nothing.*

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.
*Yes, you can't repair units but they do auto-regenerate themselves if that's the correct term. Also, the queen can heal any structures and all units will re-generate which is a plus even though it's on the slow side. Protoss can't repair structures either, only the shield regenerates and for terrans, once the building gets into the red range, it's life keeps on dropping till it explodes unlike zerg where even if it has one hp left, it won't explode







*

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.
*Yes, they do but having a queen has it's benefits such as early air defense, along with spreading creeps by spawning a creep tumor







*

One thing you don't seem to consider is what Zerg is supposed to be in the game. They are supposed to be able to overwhelm their opponent with units, fast to expand, cheaper structures that auto-regenerate, etc....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
ohhhhhhhhhhh my goddddddddddddddddddd. Seriously modern warfare you couldn't have a more simplistic idea of Starcraft II.

I mean that entire post you listing off why Z is the worst is completely not thought out even remotely. I'm not even trying to talk **** I'm just telling you there could not be a more simplistic one sided way of looking at things. You don't even consider the Zerg advantages, or factor in anything that's realitve to the argument.

Zerg is amazing, /end. If I hear anymore Z players whine about Z I might tear my eyes out.

Agreed, very simplistic view of SC2. All three races are pretty well balanced and personally can't wait to see what the two expansions bring to the game


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wow, I never thought of shift-moving-blink to have the stalkers move smoothly..

Me either. DOH! I'll have to try that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
I didn't know SC2 was a chatroom :/

When you play TEAM games you need to talk to your TEAM mate. Except no one ever does







Random teams = teh sux

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.

Wow... No.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
***? I think you've got the wrong forums.

Hacks ruin this game. Blizzard needs to step up with some patches, and ban people for cheating.

Sign up for this tourney:
http://www.sc2thunderdome.com/index....164&Itemid=195


----------



## thiru

Thanks for taking down the links (although I meant the links on OCN, not the hosting itself, you can host it if you want, just not link here).

edit: keep in mind that this is a public forum with a LOT of guests (especially in the gaming section). Any random guy can use these hacks to make your life miserable in SC2.


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Hacks ruin this game. Blizzard needs to step up with some patches, and ban people for cheating.

I should have assumed, but didn't think about cheaters in SC2. I could care less how many people hack the single player game, but multiplayer is sacred. How bad was cheating in SC1 once they got a handle on what they could do about it?

I don't have a very soft stance on cheating. Maybe a warning the first time, something to give the person the benefit of the doubt.

Cheat 2 - lose your account. Too bad for you.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
I should have assumed, but didn't think about cheaters in SC2. I could care less how many people hack the single player game, but multiplayer is sacred. How bad was cheating in SC1 once they got a handle on what they could do about it?

I don't have a very soft stance on cheating. Maybe a warning the first time, something to give the person the benefit of the doubt.

Cheat 2 - lose your account. Too bad for you.

I'm in a class right now on this topic lol IST 454 Net Security. I think they should be banned the first time. If a person is cheating his entire record is compromised, and not only that but how many of his friends did he link the hacks to as well?


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I'm in a class right now on this topic lol IST 454 Net Security. I think they should be banned the first time. If a person is cheating his entire record is compromised, and not only that but how many of his friends did he link the hacks to as well?

The only reservation I have for outright banning on the first attempt would be the trouble that would cause people who have their account compromised, or have a jerk friend or brother that hacks their account without permission.

Or a false positive.

The warning would serve as something you could point to and say "WE TOLD YOU, you have no excuse."

Either way, cheaters are a sad bunch.


----------



## thiru

Weirdest opener I've ever seen







(didn't even know you could do that creep trick)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTTFnBiM7Ts


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Weirdest opener I've ever seen







(didn't even know you could do that creep trick)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTTFnBiM7Ts

Doesn't seem worth it to me. The terran player flat out sucks. He shouldn't have left that drone do that much harass in the first place. Second, if he would've attacked the evo chamber earlier instead of waiting all those minerals canceling a hatch and building the evo would've been wasted. He never scouted the banes either, a good terran will wall off with 2 large buildings to prevent that.

An interesting replay tho, I just wish the replay played at faster speed. It felt like it was in slo-mo.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Hacks ruin this game. Blizzard needs to step up with some patches, and ban people for cheating.

Sign up for this tourney:
http://www.sc2thunderdome.com/index....164&Itemid=195

I defnatelly agree with you/// BUT. it is easy easy eays to get some one banned...

All you gotta do is send a OBVIOUS replay file...
I have banned about 5 players already, by sending the replay.

Also, I do not cheat online, I just do this because it is very entertaining for my studies.

But yeah...

Every patch they make, they ONLY change the Offsets of the FOG OF WAR, etc... so . They need to implement a CRC check to make it way harder and delay the cheaters.

But they made it tooo easy.
2 Fog Of War offsets, thats it. lol


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Weirdest opener I've ever seen







(didn't even know you could do that creep trick)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTTFnBiM7Ts

Gotta nerf zerg man.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Weirdest opener I've ever seen







(didn't even know you could do that creep trick)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTTFnBiM7Ts

That was awesome. Nice Creep trick aswell.


----------



## DoomDash

That trick is a month old now. Cool trick though.


----------



## Tchernobyl

a bit of lawlz found on the blizz sc2 forums...


----------



## DoomDash

Flow chart for scrubby Zergs maybe







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yea

muta zerglings or mass hydras are very powerful on many maps.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'm trying to get some Zerg builds worked out. I have a fast Lair/tech build I like:

(one drone goes off to scout)
drone
drone
drone
drone; 10/10
Pool
Extractor
Overlord
drone
drone; 10/18; pull 3 drones off mineral line just before pool completes - send them to extractor
Queen
drone
drone
drone; 15/18
(Queen appears now. Spawn larvae immediately.)
Lair

The pool is completed at the same moment you get just enough minerals to order a queen, and the queen appears at the same moment you get just enough minerals/gas to upgrade to Lair. Obviously I might need to get speedlings and delay the Lair if there's early harass. Anyone have some Zerg builds to share? I want to start collecting them.


----------



## Tchernobyl

That's about the build I use, or close enough..

drone to 9 supply
overlord
drone to 12 supply
pool
extractor
keep drones going, 3 sent to extractor once finished.
Overlord at 15, queen at 16, then pump out zerglings.
first 100 gas you get, speedlings. If you need to baneling bust, the next 50 is baneling nest.

Move on from there~


----------



## rhed5

When I am zerg, I go 
Drones until 10, then overlord, then, 3 drones, then gas, drone, then pool. 
by the time pool is finished, i upgrade ling speed, go queen,

i always go gas first so i can upgrade ling speed to deal with reapers. probably as safe a build you can do. remember to scout with drone to check tech lab status within barracks for timing.


----------



## DoomDash

You guys do weak rushy builds imo.

drone till 10
overlord
extractor trick
drone till 14
pool
drone till 15
hatch
queen
2 lings
ol

I might change things depending on the match up or if my scouting shows weakness or signs of rush. At the end I sometimes do :

instead of queen, 3 lings
queen 
extractor ( which makes the queen start building )
ol
3 drones on gas for speed.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

My attitude is since Zerg tier 1 sucks you have to get the Lair started as quickly as possible. Until you reach tier 2 you're stuck in a reactionary and defensive mode as Zerg. I don't like that at all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
My attitude is since Zerg tier 1 sucks you have to get the Lair started as quickly as possible. Until you reach tier 2 you're stuck in a reactionary and defensive mode as Zerg. I don't like that at all.

I think Zerg is super strong defensively / and some what strong offensively tier 1. Nobody has anything as good as the queen for defense early, and fast speed lings are a threat to anyone, especially making leaving your base early a risk ( speedling run bys ).


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think Zerg is super strong defensively / and some what strong offensively tier 1. Nobody has anything as good as the queen for defense early, and fast speed lings are a threat to anyone, especially making leaving your base early a risk ( speedling run bys ).


Speedlings don't impress me as early offensive weapons vs Terran. Cliffjumpers evade them easily and hellions can just run away or shoot and scoot.


----------



## DoomDash

Well by hellions you aren't on tier 1 anymore. Speedlings can do OK vs Reaper if you are good at surrounding. Roaches are also pretty fast to be out.


----------



## Tchernobyl




----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think Zerg is super strong defensively / and some what strong offensively tier 1. Nobody has anything as good as the queen for defense early, and fast speed lings are a threat to anyone, especially making leaving your base early a risk ( speedling run bys ).


Zerg tier 1 is pretty lame against a walled-in Terran. The only scout you have is the overlord, which has the mobility of a piano.


----------



## DoomDash

How many other people have units that can fly to scout since the beginning? I use them to scout all the time. It's pretty common to sack an overlord pretty early for that information. Plus overlords are great to have vision of many parts of the map. I like them.

but yes against T lair tech is nice, for overseers any many other things.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How many other people have units that can fly to scout since the beginning? I use them to scout all the time. It's pretty common to sack an overlord pretty early for that information. Plus overlords are great to have vision of many parts of the map. I like them.

but yes against T lair tech is nice, for overseers any many other things.


Do you ever find it necessary to upgrade them in your average game?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How many other people have units that can fly to scout since the beginning? I use them to scout all the time. It's pretty common to sack an overlord pretty early for that information. Plus overlords are great to have vision of many parts of the map. I like them.

but yes against T lair tech is nice, for overseers any many other things.


T gets cliffjumpers right away, and Z can't wall off. Overlords are okay as a stationary observation post, but they really suck as a mobile scout until you get the speed upgrade. If you try to float one of the non-upgraded ones over an enemy base you just end up losing it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


T gets cliffjumpers right away, and Z can't wall off. Overlords are okay as a stationary observation post, but they really suck as a mobile scout until you get the speed upgrade. If you try to float one of the non-upgraded ones over an enemy base you just end up losing it.


Just having your overlord above ground pretty much guarantees that it's going to die if the other guy sees it and if you don't have the speed upgrade.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just having your overlord above ground pretty much guarantees that it's going to die if the other guy sees it and if you don't have the speed upgrade.


Yeah, more reason to try to get Lair tech ASAP. When you get the Overlord speed upgrade you instantly gain a bunch of effective aerial scouts.


----------



## Tchernobyl

It's just so annoying that it takes so long to get a transporter. three separate upgrades to make the overlord worthwhile (lair, speed, and transport), or the nydus, which requires sight regardless...

Has anyone actually ever SEEN anyone do an overlord drop in a rated game?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


It's just so annoying that it takes so long to get a transporter. three separate upgrades to make the overlord worthwhile (lair, speed, and transport), or the nydus, which requires sight regardless...

Has anyone actually ever SEEN anyone do an overlord drop in a rated game?


Yeah. TLO did an awesome "doom drop" and leveled the Terran primary base with a big army built around ultralisks. I saw it on YouTube. I can't remember who his opponent was.


----------



## DuckYy

Zerg always do drops! They rarely just go busting through the front.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


It's just so annoying that it takes so long to get a transporter. three separate upgrades to make the overlord worthwhile (lair, speed, and transport), or the nydus, which requires sight regardless...

Has anyone actually ever SEEN anyone do an overlord drop in a rated game?


It's actually a little worse than that because it's really not practical to delay getting a queen. So it's pool, queen, lair, speed, transport. That's a long wait.


----------



## Tchernobyl

i had a look at the timers and whatnot.

Including all the buildings (and buildings alone, with the exception of 2 drones to replace the buildings needed for zerg)... to get a transporter.
terran: about 600 minerals, 300 gas, 242 seconds (i forget the exact number except time)
protoss: 875 minerals, 150 or 200 gas, 280ish seconds (i forget the exact time, but it's around there).
zerg: 875 minerals, 400 gas, nearly 400 seconds, if i recall correctly.

It's a huge delay to get a transport out :/


----------



## DoomDash

Its easier for Z to get drops out over anyone else... not only that but they have nydus networks as well. I just get a fast overseer or two when I play.


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


i had a look at the timers and whatnot.

Including all the buildings (and buildings alone, with the exception of 2 drones to replace the buildings needed for zerg)... to get a transporter.
terran: about 600 minerals, 300 gas, 242 seconds (i forget the exact number except time)
protoss: 875 minerals, 150 or 200 gas, 280ish seconds (i forget the exact time, but it's around there).
zerg: 875 minerals, 400 gas, nearly 400 seconds, if i recall correctly.

It's a huge delay to get a transport out :/


Who in their right mind will only drop using one transport ship? Fit two tanks? 4 marauders? 8 marines? Or how about a few zealots? Maybe a DT drop...

Point is, I don't see a valid comparison there. As soon as you can get the upgrades up, you essentially have around 3-4 transports at the least versus the terran or protoss single one. 
I don't believe that needs a buff.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I see many terrans use single ship with 4 marau to snipe out single tech buildings quite often.


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I see many terrans use single ship with 4 marau to snipe out single tech buildings quite often.


Right. In high level play, especially the pro 1v1s that everyone gets their opinions of balance from, this happens somewhat often.

But in regular old play and team games, I've never seen anyone do a 4 marauder drop. And even if they did, it still doesn't justify making zerg transports any cheaper.


----------



## DoomDash

Overlord drops > X.


----------



## BigFan

I've seen nydus worms work wonders especially if they are packed with speedlings. Personally, I always move the overload to the back of someone's base and if I find that it's a good idea, I use a nydus worm packed with speedlings to destroys all their SCVs. They won't know what hit them. Also, depending on the opponent, you could easily wipe out their cc and most of their forces if done at the right time







As for Overseers, the changelings can work wonders. I've used it several times to scout a base. Usually I would just go around the base to see units built, structures, possibly what they are planning, but, in rare cases, they discover that it's not their marine


----------



## Heret|c

Mutas are the best zerg unit. (When I say best, I mean taking into account the cost/tier)
But the problem, if zerg go muta they will get pwned before they can get their first muta off.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone want to play ?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone want to play ?


I would, but, it'll have to be in about 40min or so


----------



## yellowtoblerone

add i'll always be playing, mathieu 519

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


Mutas are the best zerg unit. (When I say best, I mean taking into account the cost/tier)
But the problem, if zerg go muta they will get pwned before they can get their first muta off.


That's absurd. oh wait you're just trolling.. nvm.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hands up if you're thinking about switching to terran because their opness atm.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Hands up if you're thinking about switching to terran because their opness atm.

I'm thinking of switching to zerg because they're so cool and end-game zerg is OP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Hands up if you're thinking about switching to terran because their opness atm.

Protoss shouldn't have any problems with what is currently considered "OP". In fact I haven't really heard any top protoss player *****ing.. have you?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

End game zerg is op. If you have enough mutas though, still pretty op.

Yeah i suck as protoss okay


----------



## DoomDash

I can get you in shape







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm thinking of switching to zerg because they're so cool and end-game zerg is OP.

I don't need to switch, since, I've been playing all my games as zerg


----------



## dudenell

so I got a guestpass from a friend in europe.. After it ran out I bought the game.. now I cant play... ***?
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/103945679-4.jpg


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dudenell* 
so I got a guestpass from a friend in europe.. After it ran out I bought the game.. now I cant play... ***?
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/103945679-4.jpg

You registered your NA SC2 key in a EU battle.net account instead of a NA battle.net account. I think you need to contact blizzard support because your NA SC2 is probably not going to work anymore.


----------



## dudenell

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You registered your NA SC2 key in a EU battle.net account instead of a NA battle.net account. I think you need to contact blizzard support because your NA SC2 is probably not going to work anymore.

yeah I did... I'm just complaining cause there shouldn't be a EU / NA issue... and the support is currently closed of course









Guess I have to be productive and study now...


----------



## DoomDash

Are you trying to log in on your old install or a European download?


----------



## dudenell

old install... would I have to worry about my saved games if i reinstalled it?


----------



## DoomDash

Does the trail include single player? Because you can probably just back those up. They are in your documents folder most likely. Fresh install with your NA version and let us know how that works out.


----------



## dudenell

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Does the trail include single player? Because you can probably just back those up. They are in your documents folder most likely. Fresh install with your NA version and let us know how that works out.

yeah it does... That's all I've been playing (IMO you have to finish singleplayer in a game before you go to MP otherwise you will suck). dling the na version now... 3 hours to go


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Protoss shouldn't have any problems with what is currently considered "OP". In fact I haven't really heard any top protoss player *****ing.. have you?

I still think marauders are slightly OP and concussive shells are too cheap


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I still think marauders are slightly OP and concussive shells are too cheap

I would like to see Marauders nerfed but honestly maybe not after this siege tank change. If you nerf the marauder maybe make the siege tank 35 damage, + 25 to armored. I don't mind marauders concusive shells getting increased in price either. Right now it's not even something you need to consider getting or not getting, you just get it.

I don't really like bio, and I'd like to see Blizzard stop nerfing Terran with their more creative units, and nerf bio instead.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I still think marauders are slightly OP and concussive shells are too cheap

Concussive shells cost 50/50 and take 60 seconds to research.
Charge is 200/200 and 140s
Blink is 150/150 and 110s
Metabolic boost is 100/100 and 11s.

Something wrong here.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I thought the tank nerf (and even bc) was unnecessary. I think the Marauder needed the nerf more. I think lowering their armored dmg to 17 and raising the concussive shells to 100/100 would be perfect. They should still rape stalkers and roaches with this nerf.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Concussive shells cost 50/50 and take 60 seconds to research.
Charge is 200/200 and 140s
Blink is 150/150 and 110s
Metabolic boost is 100/100 and 11s.

Something wrong here.

wow didnt even know that it only takes 60 secs to research.. it almost seems that blizzard was purposely doing this??


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Concussive shells cost 50/50 and take 60 seconds to research.
Charge is 200/200 and 140s
Blink is 150/150 and 110s
Metabolic boost is 100/100 and 11s.

Something wrong here.

You must not have played beta when concusive shells didn't require research







.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koven* 
For those that are running 1080p Ultra, what kind of FPS are you getting?

Sig rig. 40-60 FPS with everything on the higehst


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Rofl, during beta they came with con shells without research needed lul.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You must not have played beta when concusive shells didn't require research







.

Didn't know that.
Actually I wish I had played the beta when I hear that roaches were 1 food









Were there any other completely OP things in the beta?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You must not have played beta when concusive shells didn't require research







.

Cant tell if you're being sarcastic here as I never really played terran


----------



## DoomDash

It's hard to say if anything was really over powered in beta because the game was too fresh.

The roach being 1 supply was bs. It felt fine probably UP until the 200/200 point where Z would replace an entire 200/200 roach army in 1 second and just rally them to clean up lol.

Roaches also had 2 armor @ 1 Supply at one point.

Warp Gates used to be INSANELY fast to research. It was super duper broken. Like, literally 2 chronoboosts at most and the research was done.

Chrono boost used to last longer ( about 2.5 probes building ).

Raven seeker missles used to do more splash area, and have a huge range.

Forcefield used to be unbreakable. ( ******ed )

all I can think of.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Cant tell if you're being sarcastic here as I never really played terran

I'm dead serious. No research at all, right off the bat concusive shell.

When Blizzard changed it, it was 100/100 to upgrade, and slower to research. They found that Terran got RAPED by Toss ( Terran was having trouble with Toss all beta ), and they changed it to 50/50.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Didn't know that.
Actually I wish I had played the beta when I hear that roaches were 1 food









Were there any other completely OP things in the beta?

The mothership was quite OP in the beginning of the beta. I didnt start playing the beta until April when it was already nerfed.

Void rays also used to have 7 range too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
The mothership was quite OP in the beginning of the beta. I didnt start playing the beta until April when it was already nerfed.

Void rays also used to have 7 range too.

7 range voids were pretty ******ed. Out range a bunker w/ marines in it... seriously ?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's hard to say if anything was really over powered in beta because the game was too fresh.

The roach being 1 supply was bs. It felt fine probably UP until the 200/200 point where Z would replace an entire 200/200 roach army in 1 second and just rally them to clean up lol.

Roaches also had 2 armor @ 1 Supply at one point.

Warp Gates used to be INSANELY fast to research. It was super duper broken. Like, literally 2 chronoboosts at most and the research was done.

Chrono boost used to last longer ( about 2.5 probes building ).

Raven seeker missles used to do more splash area, and have a huge range.

Forcefield used to be unbreakable. ( ******ed )

all I can think of.

I'm dead serious. No research at all, right off the bat concusive shell.

When Blizzard changed it, it was 100/100 to upgrade, and slower to research. They found that Terran got RAPED by Toss ( Terran was having trouble with Toss all beta ), and they changed it to 50/50.

Haha all these stupid OP things make me wish I had played it just to have fun.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
The mothership was quite OP in the beginning of the beta. I didnt start playing the beta until April when it was already nerfed.

Void rays also used to have 7 range too.

Oh yeah did the mothership have those insane spells they showed us before the beta? Like that thing where every projectile stops in mid-air for 30 seconds, or the huge laser beam that wiped out everything under it.


----------



## DoomDash

Playing beta was kinda cool, it was like every other week there would be a new patch with a ton of changes, some huge. I would generally play around with the new changes in unit tester while waiting for battle.net to come back up.


----------



## Tchernobyl

What annoys me about maurauders, is banelings.

Conc shells are a 50/50 upgrade with 60 sec, and is a passive upgrade (always active, so it's with each shot).

Centrifugal hooks is *three times the price* at 150/150, and is also 110 seconds... yet a single shot from a maurauder will halve not only an unupgraded baneling, but it becomes even more effective for slowing down an upgraded one. Which is just... ugh.

Should be a flat value or something, not a percentage. And if a percentage, not half :/


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Didn't know that.
Actually I wish I had played the beta when I hear that roaches were 1 food









Were there any other completely OP things in the beta?

Roaches were 1 supply, 2 armor, and had 30 HP REGEN WHILE BURROWED (now they have 10







)
Overlord speed used to cost 50/50 (it's 100/100 now).
Burrow used to cost 50/50 and research in 60 seconds I think (it's 100/100 and 100 seconds now.)
Neural Parasite used to have infinite duration (this wasn't overpowered imo)

Thor 2-shot zealots/stalkers and 1-shot sentries/ht with 0 upgrades.
Emp had a radius of either 2.5 or 3.

Collusus did 25x2 damage with 0 upgrades at the beginning of beta.
Warpgate had 60 second research time (it's 140 now).
Immortals used to have a 40 second built time (it's 55 now).
Storm had a radius of 3.

Nothing else comes to mind.
Roaches getting nerfed from 1 supply to 2 supply is probably the thing that stands out to me the most.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Okay, so included in the link below is a ZvP (I'm zerg). I scouted at 8 hatched and saw the typical 2 gate setup for zealot rush.

So I rush back to base and build some spine crawlers. I will admit they weren't the best of places, and my playing was rather spratic (it's early in the morning and I suck anyway). Is there anything else I could have done (besides better spine crawler placement) that would have helped me defend against this?

Replay will be up in a second....


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'll check it out. I play protoss and I hate cheese too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Okay, so included in the link below is a ZvP (I'm zerg). I scouted at 8 hatched and saw the typical 2 gate setup for zealot rush.

So I rush back to base and build some spine crawlers. I will admit they weren't the best of places, and my playing was rather spratic (it's early in the morning and I suck anyway). Is there anything else I could have done (besides better spine crawler placement) that would have helped me defend against this?

Replay will be up in a second....

I'm no zerg expert by far, but here's a bit.

You made a pool at 17, which sounds late to me. People usually do them at 14 or so, which not only gives you earlier zerglings, but also earlier queen.
You made both gases at the same time, quite late I think, and then you didn't use it all. It's fine to start stockpiling for mutas later, but take it more slowly, you basically lost 6 drones in the mineral line. If you want to go fast roach or speedlings or banelings, just put one gas before or after the spawning pool (before if you want speedlings to be ready quicker).

Either that or fast expand or fast lair instead of getting a queen, but I wouldn't know too much about that.

edit: I suppose you had already given by then, but you had enough for a roach warren, which is good against zealots. (in fact it might be the best thing against zealots..?)


----------



## dudenell

just an update... I was able to figure out how to transfer the saved files over but I failed to keep my achievements which must be kept server side, but i'm sure blizzard can help


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm no zerg expert by far, but here's a bit.

You made a pool at 17, which sounds late to me. People usually do them at 14 or so, which not only gives you earlier zerglings, but also earlier queen.
You made both gases at the same time, quite late I think, and then you didn't use it all. It's fine to start stockpiling for mutas later, but take it more slowly, you basically lost 6 drones in the mineral line. If you want to go fast roach or speedlings or banelings, just put one gas before or after the spawning pool (before if you want speedlings to be ready quicker).

Either that or fast expand or fast lair instead of getting a queen, but I wouldn't know too much about that.

edit: I suppose you had already given by then, but you had enough for a roach warren, which is good against zealots. (in fact it might be the best thing against zealots..?)

To add to that

- you should do the gas trick early
- you scouted early, use that info to your advantage. you saw him chronoboost zealots, you should understood not to do double gas but instead build 1-2 crawlers, rest 1 queen and zerglings.
- you should get 1 gas after pool/expo, early gas is only to upgrade to speedlings
- you need to make pool/expo earlier. By the time he has 1 zealot out on the field you should have at least 2 zerglings already near his base

- build less crawlers, instead invest in units/not so much in drones. Also invest in roaches as already mentioned.

man that blue toss really stinks. you already have great apm to beat him. just have to get more game sense, when to do what, and what counters to build.


----------



## thiru

Oh and if you watch VODs or streams, watch PrinceXizor on Teamliquid (you can get a replay pack on his TL thread, and see his VODs on his ustream page), he's got an amazing grasp of zerg mechanics. He's basically the Trump of zergs (meaning he does replay analysis if you send him one, and comments a LOT while playing so you know why he does what he does).

edit: if you send him a replay to review, prepare for a scathing lesson you won't forget


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Okay, so included in the link below is a ZvP (I'm zerg). I scouted at 8 hatched and saw the typical 2 gate setup for zealot rush.

So I rush back to base and build some spine crawlers. I will admit they weren't the best of places, and my playing was rather spratic (it's early in the morning and I suck anyway). Is there anything else I could have done (besides better spine crawler placement) that would have helped me defend against this?

Replay will be up in a second....

Watched the first few minutes of the replay and here's what i would have done different. It wasnt even a proxy 2gate and the distance between the bases are quite far so you had a good amount of time to counter it.

Get the pool at 13-14. Dont forget your queen, I noticed you waited pretty late to make it. You made 2 extractors quite early without enough drones mining minerals. Skip the early 2 extractors and just stick with 1 until you can get 12+ drones on your minerals. Place one spine crawler below, right next to hatchery. Place the other above, right next to a mineral field. The idea is to prevent zealots from fully surrounding your crawlers. This will also allow your crawlers to reach zealots anywhere near your buildings or drones.

You could have also moved your drones to the minerals fields on the right side while it was getting attacked. Dont just let them die. You also unnecessarily threw up 3 more crawlers. I would have just moved the one further on the bottom up, closer to the hatchery.

Also noticed you had a bunch of larvae not doing anything even though you had plenty of money and supply to make some units.

And your opponent was in no way cheesing. The 2 gate was not a proxy and you should have scouted the stargates.


----------



## Keatonus

Got myself into Diamond!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

nice, grats man


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 

You could have also moved your drones to the minerals fields on the right side while it was getting attacked. Dont just let them die.

This is what stuck out to me the most. You could have lured them into your Spine Crawlers. Same with the Queen. You could have micro'd her backwards in range of the Spine Crawler.


----------



## Refused

Zerg bronze player here.

Got the game last month and while it's really fun, it's definitely a lot to take in at first


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
7 range voids were pretty ******ed. Out range a bunker w/ marines in it... seriously ?









Yea, now when 8 marines (400 minerals) can kill 3 void rays (750 minerals, 450 gas) without even focus fire'ing it seems much better.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcacheese* 
Roaches were 1 supply, 2 armor, and had 30 HP REGEN WHILE BURROWED (now they have 10







)
Overlord speed used to cost 50/50 (it's 100/100 now).
Burrow used to cost 50/50 and research in 60 seconds I think (it's 100/100 and 100 seconds now.)
Neural Parasite used to have infinite duration (this wasn't overpowered imo)

Thor 2-shot zealots/stalkers and 1-shot sentries/ht with 0 upgrades.
Emp had a radius of either 2.5 or 3.

Collusus did 25x2 damage with 0 upgrades at the beginning of beta.
Warpgate had 60 second research time (it's 140 now).
Immortals used to have a 40 second built time (it's 55 now).
Storm had a radius of 3.

Nothing else comes to mind.
Roaches getting nerfed from 1 supply to 2 supply is probably the thing that stands out to me the most.









NP ~ was some pretty big BS if you ask me. It was WAYYYY too powerful. Getting Thors, BC's, Colossus, Carriers, Motherships, for a ( at the time ) 75 mana spell that required no research. Bull****. I don't think its as good as it should be now, but I think 30 seconds MAX would be ideal. But if you're a Z player I can see why you'd selfishly want it back







.

You didn't mention that Thor damage was actually a disadvantage too. It was more damage per shots but a much slower fire rate. They actually do the same DPS now, so they are better against small units now compared to better against big units before. Same goes for the Colossus which got a damage nerf but has a faster attack.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yea, now when 8 marines (400 minerals) can kill 3 void rays (750 minerals, 450 gas) without even focus fire'ing it seems much better.

It is much better this way. Also, you must not be an early beta player either. Void rays used to be even worse against marines. They had 3 phases of damage, first one being only 2 damage. Marines would kill them long before they ever got a full charge. The entire concept behind the void ray is its ability to kill high HP units, not low HP units. They are still a sick unit, but yeah they need to suck vs light units like marines.

Also if you charge you void rays up before engaging those marines in the number example you post it makes a big difference.


----------



## rhed5

Anyone want to play? 
Lower Diamond here 
Jediwin - 713


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yea, now when 8 marines (400 minerals) can kill 3 void rays (750 minerals, 450 gas) without even focus fire'ing it seems much better.


Well, void rays are meant to take down high hp units and their perfect counter is marines.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Haha all these stupid OP things make me wish I had played it just to have fun.

Oh yeah did the mothership have those insane spells they showed us before the beta? Like that thing where every projectile stops in mid-air for 30 seconds, or the huge laser beam that wiped out everything under it.


Same here, it sounds like it would have been a blast to use some of those units







As for the mothership, it was called the planet cracker if I'm not mistaken. They used it to take down a barracks and something like 30 marines







Personally, I think they should have left the spell where projectiles stop for 30 seconds but possibly either taken out or lowered the damage of the planet cracker. It would make the mothership more feared and it would make a great attack/support unit









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's hard to say if anything was really over powered in beta because the game was too fresh.

The roach being 1 supply was bs. It felt fine probably UP until the 200/200 point where Z would replace an entire 200/200 roach army in 1 second and just rally them to clean up lol.

Roaches also had 2 armor @ 1 Supply at one point.


Just insane, but, that would be great to wipe an MMM ball









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Warp Gates used to be INSANELY fast to research. It was super duper broken. Like, literally 2 chronoboosts at most and the research was done.

Chrono boost used to last longer ( about 2.5 probes building ).

Raven seeker missles used to do more splash area, and have a huge range.

Forcefield used to be unbreakable. ( ******ed )

all I can think of.

I'm dead serious. No research at all, right off the bat concusive shell.

When Blizzard changed it, it was 100/100 to upgrade, and slower to research. They found that Terran got RAPED by Toss ( Terran was having trouble with Toss all beta ), and they changed it to 50/50.


hmm, that explains why terran seems OP at the moment


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, void rays are meant to take down high hp units and their perfect counter is marines.

Same here, it sounds like it would have been a blast to use some of those units







As for the mothership, it was called the planet cracker if I'm not mistaken. They used it to take down a barracks and something like 30 marines







Personally, I think they should have left the spell where projectiles stop for 30 seconds but possibly either taken out or lowered the damage of the planet cracker. It would make the mothership more feared and it would make a great attack/support unit









Just insane, but, that would be great to wipe an MMM ball










hmm, that explains why terran seems OP at the moment










Imo concussive shells/marauders are the biggest problem with balance right now. Proxy marauders/reapers are stupid strong vs protoss. They need to maybe have concussive shells on a cool down. It shouldn't slow down units every hit. It's just stupid.

Btw I just switched to terran and haven't lost yet.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

I wonder how bad the marine/marauder will be with the new patch that makes it take longer to build zealots


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I just discovered something kinda cool. You can have an infestor use neural parasite on enemy workers and order them to build structures for you. It's fun. You have a burrowed infestor creep up to a Protoss mineral line, infestor surfaces, puts parasite on a probe, probe builds a pylon and a cannon. You can even warp in a nexus, get more probes, and build your own Protoss army. Building a whole Protoss army is probably not a practical option in a real game, but it's fun to mess around with vs. AI. I actually think the cannon build could be used in a real game to assist with demolishing an enemy base.


----------



## Heret|c

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Hands up if you're thinking about switching to terran because their opness atm.









yellowtoblertroll


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Imo concussive shells/marauders are the biggest problem with balance right now. Proxy marauders/reapers are stupid strong vs protoss. They need to maybe have concussive shells on a cool down. It shouldn't slow down units every hit. It's just stupid.

Btw I just switched to terran and haven't lost yet.

and I haven't lost as Z in Diamond, so what?







.

I can help you with your problem though if you'd like.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I just discovered something kinda cool. You can have an infestor use neural parasite on enemy workers and order them to build structures for you. It's fun. You have a burrowed infestor creep up to a Protoss mineral line, infestor surfaces, puts parasite on a probe, probe builds a pylon and a cannon. You can even warp in a nexus, get more probes, and build your own Protoss army. Building a whole Protoss army is probably not a practical option in a real game, but it's fun to mess around with vs. AI. I actually think the cannon build could be used in a real game to assist with demolishing an enemy base.

Yes this is very old news. How else do you think you get the "Warp in a Zerglot" achievement?







.


----------



## thiru

Anyone NP'ed a mothership yet? that would be beyond epic.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Anyone NP'ed a mothership yet? that would be beyond epic.

Not sure what you meant by NP, but, I have taken one down before in one of my practice matches. I was playing zerg and he was assaulting my base from the front with stalkers/zealots, a carrier from my worker's side and then the mothership from the other side. Suffice to say, he probably wasn't paying much attention to it because I was able to take it down using 3 corruptors and 2 spore colonies or whatever they are called now. Unfortunately, I still lost the game


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Not sure what you meant by NP, but, I have taken one down before in one of my practice matches. I was playing zerg and he was assaulting my base from the front with stalkers/zealots, a carrier from my worker's side and then the mothership from the other side. Suffice to say, he probably wasn't paying much attention to it because I was able to take it down using 3 corruptors and 2 spore colonies or whatever they are called now. Unfortunately, I still lost the game









NP is neural parasite. So you'd steal the mothership and get mass cloak for a few seconds. Heck I'd bet if you do the NP+burrow trick the other guy wouldn't know what to do for a few seconds (his units won't attack his mothership without him telling him to).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
NP is neural parasite. So you'd steal the mothership and get mass cloak for a few seconds. Heck I'd bet if you do the NP+burrow trick the other guy wouldn't know what to do for a few seconds (his units won't attack his mothership without him telling him to).

oh I see, hmm, maybe I'll give that a try, but, the mothership is an air unit. Can neural parasite control it? I mean I've seen it control tanks, colossus', etc.... but, never thought it could control a mothership or any air units


----------



## DoomDash

NP motherships was so dumb when NP lasted forever. Free mothership for 75 mana... ******ed. Not only that but if you used the burrowed NP glitch.....


----------



## poroboszcz

On the other hand 12 seconds long NP makes it mostly a useless spell not even worth researching. It was ok with permanent duration, they could've just made mothership immune and fix burrow casting.


----------



## DoomDash

Nah it was still a little too good. I think 30 seconds would be better. It's certainly not useless now, in fact I still use it and its very nice in certain situations. It's also good to waste your opponents energy.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Time for a new keyboard? Look no further than the Razer SC II keybaord!

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.35156900

hehe yea right

video: http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/6...aft-Peripherie


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Time for a new keyboard? Look no further than the Razer SC II keybaord!

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.35156900

hehe yea right

video: http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/6...aft-Peripherie

I'll be the first to admit I sold all my old Razer equipment to get these products ( still have my barracudas but i want to get rid of them ). I LOVE Razer and I'm just waiting on them to email me when those are ready to order. I'm also looking for some damn Razer Mako's at an affordable price if you guys know anyone selling.


----------



## mfb412

119$ for a razer which looks like a perfectly normal keyboard with lights on the edge of the keys and that my 55$ G11 probably annihilates? no thanks.


----------



## DoomDash

I hate G11's. Dude that keyboard is totally awesome, especially the base is under attack one. Plus the mouse looks super nice and small, I like that.

Broke the 800 points barrier in ladder today ( Diamond ), mwhaahah .


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Time for a new keyboard? Look no further than the Razer SC II keybaord!

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.35156900

hehe yea right

video: http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/6...aft-Peripherie

Nice keyboard but i cant justify spending over $50 for a keyboard


----------



## thiru

Meh, pros use mechanical keyboards!
(at least Gretorp does... he streamed his game with a camera pointed at his Steelseries 6g/7g)


----------



## Heret|c

I think a pro will destroy you with a $5 keyboard. The spectre mouse looks like it would be so uncomfortable it's not even sculpted to fit inside a hand, I'll just stick with Deathadder. Also Barracuda > Banshee, it's not even 5.1 or 7.1 surround.

Unfortunately Razer driver software is far from stellar, one time I tried to bind the 2 side buttons of Deathadder to be AA and FF for 1 button dodge in UT3, and instead of dodging it would just type AA and FF in chat.


----------



## DoomDash

I just like flashing lights!


----------



## Heret|c

Well I keep on loose , loose , loose now :=( 99% of my opponents are terran.
In fact I almost forgot there are other races in the game.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if I just build a bunch of turrets and a couple of siege tanks, it's all I need to keep me safe whilst I amass a huge army of banshees ftw.

The closest I was to winning was when I obliterated my opponents expansion base and killed all his workers with banshees. But somehow he came back ...

I just hate it, I always keep loosing, it's like all the people do is know every little detail,
like using the expanded vision etc.

I have no idea about all those little details like how if you stand on high ground you are supposed to get an advantage or which unit you are supposed to use in each situation.

There are like a million of little details that you have to remember, there's no way I can memorize all of them!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'd use my mechanical too if not for perma disable for window key. I don't wana disable it perm but i need to turn it off during gaming.


----------



## thiru

Use a macro to disable it.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
Well I keep on loose , loose , loose now :=( 99% of my opponents are terran.
In fact I almost forgot there are other races in the game.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if I just build a bunch of turrets and a couple of siege tanks, it's all I need to keep me safe whilst I amass a huge army of banshees ftw.

The closest I was to winning was when I obliterated my opponents expansion base and killed all his workers with banshees. But somehow he came back ...

I just hate it, I always keep loosing, it's like all the people do is know every little detail,
like using the expanded vision etc.

I have no idea about all those little details like how if you stand on high ground you are supposed to get an advantage or which unit you are supposed to use in each situation.

There are like a million of little details that you have to remember, there's no way I can memorize all of them!

it's LOSE not LOOSE!

You LOSE a match, your arse is LOOSE after dropping the soap in prison!

AAAARGH

/pedant


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
Well I keep on loose , loose , loose now :=( 99% of my opponents are terran.
In fact I almost forgot there are other races in the game.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if I just build a bunch of turrets and a couple of siege tanks, it's all I need to keep me safe whilst I amass a huge army of banshees ftw.

The closest I was to winning was when I obliterated my opponents expansion base and killed all his workers with banshees. But somehow he came back ...

I just hate it, I always keep loosing, it's like all the people do is know every little detail,
like using the expanded vision etc.

I have no idea about all those little details like how if you stand on high ground you are supposed to get an advantage or which unit you are supposed to use in each situation.

There are like a million of little details that you have to remember, there's no way I can memorize all of them!

Do you play Terran as well? I don't play them, but I'm pretty sure you'll TvT is going to be a turtle battle with whoever is controlling the air to have the win.


----------



## DoomDash

Not exactly. TvT is super dynamic so you can see a bunch of different things.


----------



## Heret|c

Yes I play terran now, pretty much everyone plays terran, it's hard for me as it were,
I don't need another disadvantage by playing gimped races.

Although you can see different scenarios with TvT, but the Siege tanks are so good against meelee, it would make it the optimal strategy, because you just spend tiny little resource to build a couple of tanks and a few turrets, but if your opponent decides to attack you with melee or medivac drops, the tanks are going to obliterate his forces in 2 seconds..


----------



## holyherbiness

TvT is some of the most boring matchups i've ever seen.


----------



## Drecoll

I don't know how to ****ing start a multiplayer game in starcraft 2, I hit all the different quick game buttons, or regular game, all that ends up happening is at the top it says "game found" then sits there and does nothing. Is there a button I need to press after that? I'm not usually a ****** when it comes to this ****, but starcraft 2's multiplayer user interface makes me feel like one.


----------



## Dr1T

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Drecoll*


I don't know how to ****ing start a multiplayer game in starcraft 2, I hit all the different quick game buttons, or regular game, all that ends up happening is at the top it says "game found" then sits there and does nothing. Is there a button I need to press after that? I'm not usually a ****** when it comes to this ****, but starcraft 2's multiplayer user interface makes me feel like one.


if it says game found just wait a few seconds (less than 10 usually) and it will start. Nothing easier


----------



## DoomDash

I think a lot of the korean pros have been saying Protoss is slightly OP.


----------



## Heret|c

9 out of every 10 players are terran


----------



## DoomDash

Actually more Protoss players than Terran in the world.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

True, but via one of the previous graphs terrans dominate race card the more points/higher level bracket they are.


----------



## DoomDash

True, but Zerg players have more points than protoss or terran players on average in Diamond.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


True, but Zerg players have more points than protoss or terran players on average in Diamond.


True, but I'm amazing.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all

I got this bookmarked now ;D


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
True, but via one of the previous graphs terrans dominate race card the more points/higher level bracket they are.

A high level terran will easily dominate a similarly skilled protoss imo. The protoss needs to have insane micro to win, aka Tester.

Are you guys watching the Gomtv tourney?


----------



## GodofGrunts

So little Zerg players









That's okay I like that my opponents are less comfortable with my race.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
A high level terran will easily dominate a similarly skilled protoss imo. The protoss needs to have insane micro to win, aka Tester.

Are you guys watching the Gomtv tourney?

You have to be kidding me. I have literally double my friends Protoss's APM and I barley managed to beat him yesterday. It's Terran who has to do the micro usually vs P.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You have to be kidding me. I have literally double my friends Protoss's APM and I barley managed to beat him yesterday. It's Terran who has to do the micro usually vs P.


Ok Protoss has to micro colossus, dodge emps, storms, blink, FF, GS.

What does terran have to do to win? Do a timing attack before it is possible to get storms effectively (2-3). Small ramp FF? No worries just drop your mobile army with medevacs in the back to snipe a nexus. The protoss "paper airplane" is a joke too.


----------



## DoomDash

The paper airplane is good enough as is.

Terran has to know when to stim, kite, avoid storms, avoid being in lines vs Colossus ( yes I do do this ), avoid feed back / snipe first!, target heavies, target lights, ect ect. It's the same. How hard is it to FF, blink, or GS? EMP dodging can be tricky but so can dodging feedback. Feed back is even harder to escape because it has 100% accuracy and more range. Yes EMP is radius but I'm not saying one or the other is better, but I'm saying they are both difficult.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
The paper airplane is good enough as is.

Terran has to know when to stim, kite, avoid storms, avoid being in lines vs Colossus ( yes I do do this ), avoid feed back / snipe first!, target heavies, target lights, ect ect. It's the same. How hard is it to FF, blink, or GS? EMP dodging can be tricky but so can dodging feedback. Feed back is even harder to escape because it has 100% accuracy and more range. Yes EMP is radius but I'm not saying one or the other is better, but I'm saying they are both difficult.

Regardless of this, early to mid-game, terran has HUGE advantages over Protoss, as they can do NO micro and still win. If protoss want to win, they have to micro like mad.

Late game, sure, Terran has tons of stuff to micro, but so does every single race.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311* 
Regardless of this, early to mid-game, terran has HUGE advantages over Protoss, as they can do NO micro and still win. If protoss want to win, they have to micro like mad.

Late game, sure, Terran has tons of stuff to micro, but so does every single race.

I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart this is not true. It entirely depends on what the Protoss is doing, but a no microed properly built 4 gate will not have a problem vs a 1A no micro Terran. I've played 200 games in Diamond almost, and my Protoss friend with 40 APM has no problem holding off a skilled Terran players MM push before ghosts.


----------



## poroboszcz

How do you dodge EMPs? I've just watched quite big replay pack of NEXGenius and his 300 apm doesn't seem to be high enough to achieve it so I just wonder.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart this is not true. It entirely depends on what the Protoss is doing, but a no microed properly built 4 gate will not have a problem vs a 1A no micro Terran. I've played 200 games in Diamond almost, and my Protoss friend with 40 APM has no problem holding off a skilled Terran players MM push before ghosts.

Because 4gate is an all-in, if terran would 4 or 5 rax'd I'm not so sure about the outcome. I've seen like 30 apm terrans in diamond as well. They literally just sit in their base till about 60 food, then pretty much 1a, stim, gg. If protoss 1a's too it's an instant win for terran. MM ball doesn't require as much careful army positioning as protoss units, if any at all.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You have to be kidding me. I have literally double my friends Protoss's APM and I barley managed to beat him yesterday. It's *Terran who has to do the micro usually vs P.*

Like stim?









Marauders OWN protoss.. it doesnt require more micro than gateway units


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart this is not true. It entirely depends on what the Protoss is doing, but a no microed properly built 4 gate will not have a problem vs a 1A no micro Terran. I've played 200 games in Diamond almost, and my Protoss friend with 40 APM has no problem holding off a skilled Terran players MM push before ghosts.

I'm sorry, but this is hogwash. Even if a protoss goes for a 3 gate robo and get a couple colossi up, all terran has to do is stim and take the colossi out, and then back to "a+click."

I've played terran and protoss. I'm not saying that Terran is overpowered, but they do have a tactical advantage ESPECIALLY early game, and in mid game over protoss. MMs is very hard to counter as protoss until colossi are up, but all Terran has to do is stim.

When toss can get a few high temps and colossi in the mix, then MMMs are doomed, as they can't dodge storms and colossi.

Yes, Terran needs mirco, and lots in late game, but not anymore than any other race, and early game Terran is easy to use, that's why it's a great "beginner" race. Easy to use, hard to master.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart this is not true. It entirely depends on what the Protoss is doing, but a no microed properly built 4 gate will not have a problem vs a 1A no micro Terran. I've played 200 games in Diamond almost, and my Protoss friend with 40 APM has no problem holding off a skilled Terran players MM push before ghosts.

Well MM is cheaper than gateway units and therefore you can build more of them. At the same time, marauders own the more expensive stalkers. So basically you should have more MM than his gateway units so i dont understand how a more expensive, weaker gateway build should not have problem vs MM.

Holding it off isnt impossible but you will have to use position, unit composition, forcefield/guardian shield to your advantage when facing the MM. Sounds like a lot of work against a Terran build which requires much less micro.


----------



## DoomDash

Well since I'm out numbered here I'll say: I just don't agree with you guys. I'm just telling you from my own personal experiences, and that's all I can do. I play all 3 races, and I have another account dedicated to 100% Z also in Diamond. I've never had a problem with Terran with any of the races, at least not more than any other match up. That's pretty much all I can tell you. I don't find any difference in Protoss micro vs Terran micro. Maybe you guys have problems with it but I don't.

Also Protoss is an easy race to pick up as well, certainly about the same as Terran, except with much better transitions if you ask me.

I also think if any race shouldn't be complaining about Terran is protoss. I can understand Z, but not P, sorry. Don't feel remotely sorry for P players.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Like stim?









Marauders OWN protoss.. it doesnt require more micro than gateway units

Zealots with charge ruin marauders and tanks.

I've gotten into Protoss and I'm having more success against terran. Just scout the hell out of them at the beginning and build accordingly. If you think they are going into a 111 or variant with all the buildings, get some phoenix. If they are going more marine heavy, Stalkers, Zealots if it's Marauders.

They will have to micro the hell out of their ball if they go tanks against chargelots or the tanks will take them out. Terran are easier to play, but they aren't juggernauts. Phoenix can take out ravens, and banshees's and lift tanks or ghosts.

All you have to do if hold them off so you can expand and you'll be able to do what you want. Im only top 5 plat, but im playing 1000 diamond and it's possible to win against T as toss. You just have to poke and prod early on. I lose to zerg now more then terran now, mainly because I have been focusing on how to beat them. Getting good at microing you HTs ad storm+feedback will wreak havok.

Just play custom games. Most of the people are playing Terran, so you get a lot of practice. Most of my opponents are diamond and I win atleast 50% which isn't bad considering I just started Protoss this week.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it's really not as hard as you guys make it sound. Very few Diamond P players are complaining about Terran problems. Not only are they beatable, you have a lot of different options of how to do it, weather its void rays, phoenix, speedlots, colossus, templars, immortals, sentries + stalekrs, or DT's.

If you have problems vs T as a P player, I'd hate to see you play Zerg.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Also Protoss is an easy race to pick up as well, certainly about the same as Terran, except with much better transitions if you ask me.

How's getting additional buildings for each tech tree better than switching tech labs around?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
How's getting additional buildings for each tech tree better than switching tech labs around?

Um, you get a couple buildings and you don't NEED to switch around tech labs and reactors, you just warp almost all of your tech units in at one build. How easy is that? Having a robo bay and gateways is much easier to manage than a **** ton of each, all with different add-ons.


----------



## Heret|c

OMG Guys I won for the first time in Silver leagues: I just rushed with probes and killed all the guys' drones!


----------



## DuckYy

@DoomDash - Well, the barracks are the only buildings that will have different add-ons most of the time. You're not going to have like a factory pumping helions with a reactor and a factory producing tanks. Most of the time, you'll be producing one type of units from the higher tech buildings.

I'm a protoss player myself and I find terran to be the harder race to play against than zerg/protoss. I'm not saying that it's imbalance or something along those lines but it is quite challenging. Terran drops are the death of me in the late game. For the most part, I'll win the big battles but with his constant harass if I have 3-4 base, I just cant move my units over there fast enough. I can try to warp in units but he'll snipe some buildings and evacuate pretty fast.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but personal hard match ups is pretty meaningless. TvZ is my hardest match up in the game on average, but I don't think its a Zerg favored match up. That would be selfish of me to believe, especially considering my experience is still some what new ( even being a long time beta player ).

9 times out of 10 loses are from mistakes and not match ups.


----------



## DoomDash

Read straight from the top rated ladder players mouth:


You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311* 
Regardless of this, early to mid-game, terran has HUGE advantages over Protoss, as they can do NO micro and still win. If protoss want to win, they have to micro like mad.

Late game, sure, Terran has tons of stuff to micro, but so does every single race.

I have to agree with this. MMM balls can be so hard to counter, because the concussive shells slow down zealots and stalkers along with the medivacs or medics to heal make them almost unbeatable if one is still using tier 1 units. If you have some immortals for d, colossus for backup and then high templars to use storm, then they are a breath but then again, we are talking about tier 2 and 3 units compared to tier 1 units. Playing against terran as zerg is a totally different story









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah but personal hard match ups is pretty meaningless. TvZ is my hardest match up in the game on average, but I don't think its a Zerg favored match up. That would be selfish of me to believe, especially considering my experience is still some what new ( even being a long time beta player ).

*9 times out of 10 loses are from mistakes* and not match ups.

Yes, same here. All my loses when I was playing the practice matches were due to me taking my time to build units, attacking too early, not having enough air units, so, banshees took down my entire bases, etc.... but these mistakes are very important to show us our flaws in our strategies


----------



## DoomDash

Even in Diamond I am sometimes disgusted by my performance sometimes. I really feel I have so much room for improvement, especially with my Terran.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I just got cannon rushed twice in a row. Wasn't expecting it, as it's the first time I've seen a cannon rush ever in StarCraft II. I've played over 70 games, I was so sure I've seen everything. Damn noobs.


----------



## DuckYy

LOL. How can you not have seen a cannon rush? I encounter that every time I play 3's and 4's with my buddies. The only things I haven't experience first hand is planetary fortress rushes, proxy hatcheries, and proxy hatchery/evolution chambers build in that video a few pages back. I have experienced the worker rush, fast gold command center lift off, and just about all the other cheese builds.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well since I'm out numbered here I'll say: I just don't agree with you guys. I'm just telling you from my own personal experiences, and that's all I can do. I play all 3 races, and I have another account dedicated to 100% Z also in Diamond. I've never had a problem with Terran with any of the races, at least not more than any other match up. That's pretty much all I can tell you. I don't find any difference in Protoss micro vs Terran micro. Maybe you guys have problems with it but I don't.

Also Protoss is an easy race to pick up as well, certainly about the same as Terran, except with much better transitions if you ask me.

I also think if any race shouldn't be complaining about Terran is protoss. I can understand Z, but not P, sorry. Don't feel remotely sorry for P players.

Only thing im complaining about are marauders and concussive shells (pretty sure you agree). And maybe ghost emp. Just slight changes.

Id say during the late game both races require about the same micro but MM just owns early game with very little micro. Protoss needs a lot more micro to beat MM early game and I dont see how that can be argued. Again im only talking about the early-mid game.

Stalker costs 125/50 and deals 10 dmg (14 to armored)
Marauders costs 100/25 and deals 10 dmg (20 to armored)

20 to armored!! thats ridiculous... add con shells and stim and they will eat up gateway units all day. how can that be argued?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956* 
Zealots with charge ruin marauders and tanks.

I've gotten into Protoss and I'm having more success against terran. Just scout the hell out of them at the beginning and build accordingly. If you think they are going into a 111 or variant with all the buildings, get some phoenix. If they are going more marine heavy, Stalkers, Zealots if it's Marauders.

They will have to micro the hell out of their ball if they go tanks against chargelots or the tanks will take them out. Terran are easier to play, but they aren't juggernauts. Phoenix can take out ravens, and banshees's and lift tanks or ghosts.

All you have to do if hold them off so you can expand and you'll be able to do what you want. Im only top 5 plat, but im playing 1000 diamond and it's possible to win against T as toss. You just have to poke and prod early on. I lose to zerg now more then terran now, mainly because I have been focusing on how to beat them. Getting good at microing you HTs ad storm+feedback will wreak havok.

Just play custom games. Most of the people are playing Terran, so you get a lot of practice. Most of my opponents are diamond and I win atleast 50% which isn't bad considering I just started Protoss this week.

Im talking about early game. I find it easier to deal with terran in the late game when you have storm or colossi (and a lot).

Early game MM pushes simply owns protoss. It's safe to say.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah it's really not as hard as you guys make it sound. Very few Diamond P players are complaining about Terran problems. Not only are they beatable, you have a lot of different options of how to do it, weather its void rays, phoenix, speedlots, colossus, templars, immortals, sentries + stalekrs, or DT's.

If you have problems vs T as a P player, I'd hate to see you play Zerg.

True BUT that is a lot of teching. A terran can just go 3 rax and maul your base before you can finish teching. Again, Im talking about EARLY game here which favors terran over protoss.

A 3-4 rax timing push is incredibly hard to beat as protoss. Not a complaint. Blame blizzard, not the player







. But then again zerg has a harder time dealing with terran.

Oh and there's no doubt that many top diamond protoss players dont complain about terran being OP but at the same time pro league terran players admit that terran is OP. It was some USA player in the top 20. I forgot who it was. He said that he wants terran to be balanced so he wouldnt be criticized for playing the OP race.

Blaming losses against terran on imbalance is pretty pathetic especially if youre a pro league gamer *cough* idra *cough*


----------



## pewpewlazer

I don't have a huge problem with MM as Protoss. Now tanks... those are ****ing lame. Can't wait till they get nerfed.

And if Terran is so OP, why are 90% of my games PvP? I'm ~850 diamond now and it seems like just about everyone plays Protoss.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
How do you dodge EMPs? I've just watched quite big replay pack of NEXGenius and his 300 apm doesn't seem to be high enough to achieve it so I just wonder.

Because 4gate is an all-in, if terran would 4 or 5 rax'd I'm not so sure about the outcome. I've seen like 30 apm terrans in diamond as well. They literally just sit in their base till about 60 food, then pretty much 1a, stim, gg. If protoss 1a's too it's an instant win for terran. MM ball doesn't require as much careful army positioning as protoss units, if any at all.

How is 4 gate an all in? You can do an all in 4 gate, but 4 gating doesn't mean you're going all in.


----------



## Rpg2

I just watched 4 marauders in the yellow hit and run 3 archons with full shields on HD's latest cast. Seriously.... I play terran and find that OP.

The 3 Tier 3 archons cost 300/900 in resources, and they got taken out by 4 Tier 1 marauders costing 400/100. It's not even about micro because archons can't even get close enough to take out simple barracks unit thanks to conc shells.

If anything, the marauders should probably have nerfed damage or a cool down on conc shells in an upcoming patch, at least something along those lines. It's as if zealots had charge with no cool down. Maybe that isn't the right way to approach this, but it just struck me as so unbalanced it's not even fair when I saw that those archons went down to marauders so easily..


----------



## mfb412

Hell i've won lots of matches by doing what a dude did on youtube a while back, just at start, start harvesting with all but 2 SCV's, take one and have him run around like an idiot in the enemy base, and use the other to build a factory near their base, then build an armory, pull ALL SCV's from harvesting, build 2 thors and it's gg for anyone.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah it's really not as hard as you guys make it sound. Very few Diamond P players are complaining about Terran problems. Not only are they beatable, you have a lot of different options of how to do it, weather its void rays, phoenix, speedlots, colossus, templars, immortals, sentries + stalekrs, or DT's.

If you have problems vs T as a P player, I'd hate to see you play Zerg.


I've played 1500 level terrans. I win vs terran at about a 50% ratio right now, 70% vs zerg, and 65-70% vs tos. A good terran player knows exactly when high templars are coming out. Yes, tanks are getting nerfed, but I haven't seen any tanks lately. Colossi are not fast enough, they can be caught out of position very easily, and stimming into them isn't hard. Void rays? 95% of the time terran will do a timing attack right as you have 2 voids, you will need them to defend your base and by the time you reach his he will have 5+ rines waiting with stim.

Maybe at the pro level they are even, but anything below that they are not. TvZ is even more imba than TvP.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Read straight from the top rated ladder players mouth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgUSgtZs1Zk


Haha, gg. Terran still wins though









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Um, you get a couple buildings and you don't NEED to switch around tech labs and reactors, you just warp almost all of your tech units in at one build. How easy is that? Having a robo bay and gateways is much easier to manage than a **** ton of each, all with different add-ons.


The thing is that it takes a lot of time and resources to get all the options available for protoss which usually doesn't happen until the late game, while terran, with say 1/1/1 opening can transition into anything he wants pretty much instantly.

This comes from a top player as well:

Quote:



Stop and think about the number of tech buildings required for Terran, once you have a barracks a factory and a starport the only additional tech buildings are: Armory, Ghost Academy, and Fusion Core (lol). Okay we're seeing more of the last one but all of the rest comes down to switching things around on those tech labs. They're cheap they build quickly and it's easy with any decent amount of APM to swap around buildings to change your tech patterns dramatically. This entire dynamic allows Terran to if anything easier to switch tech paths with than a zerg player. A Zerg player has to drop a building in order to make a new unit and if that building is scouted then you know what is coming.

Protoss need relatively few tech buildings as well but it's a little easier to tell when they're switching techs because of a few things. Armory can mean thors or it could just be to get more upgrades you don't know whats coming out of that factory until you see the unit pop out. Ghost Academy is a pretty strong indication of GHOSTS fair enough same as Fusion Core but even if they're just sitting on an Armory possibly just for upgrades they can on short notice switch their tech patterns around easily. 3 Rax bio easily with some tech lab switching becomes banshee raven marine. More switching becomes Marauder Thor Medivac. Terran one of the toughest races to scout is able to freely tech switch almost the easiest.


Source.

Tell me he doesn't make some valid points there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pewpewlazer*


How is 4 gate an all in? You can do an all in 4 gate, but 4 gating doesn't mean you're going all in.


Sure but it's usually much closer to an all-in than any 2/3 gate + tech or terran's 3 rax, as it doesn't leave much resources for tech or expansion.


----------



## deanlewandowski

2 questions from a SC2 player who needs help and just got placed in the Bronze ladder:

#1- How do I measure my APM, and is there a custom map or other resource that someone can recommend to improve APM?

#2- I play Zerg right now. I just like the way they play and want to at least make it into the Silver league before I start playing other races. ( I have completed the campaign but only on Normal )
Can anyone recommend a forum/ etc that discusses Zerg tactics, build orders, etc?
I am familiar with 5 Roach and 1 Base Muta openings, but I feel like my mid-game needs a LOT of improvement, since most people stop posting what they do after you get to about 20/ 25 drones.
(I know that a lot of this depends on what your opponent is doing, but any guidance/ replays that someone could suggest would be appreciated!)


----------



## rhed5

#1 I'm not sure if there's a way to measure during in-game but you can check your replays, and one of the criterias is APM - it shows Average and current.

#2 teamliquid.net is the ultimate starcraft forum. check there for strats/ideas 
but other than that, I think it's best for players to play all races, so you get a feel and understanding to the game first, then you can decide what you like afterwords.


----------



## DoomDash

I think you guys are over reacting for sure, but yes I told you guys before I am OK with a marauder nerf. The only problem with that is it would have to be a slight nerf, not something major. If you remove stim Terran has no chance vs protoss. If you take away too much damage Terran has no chance against Protoss. That's really how I feel. Marauders are like the back bone to Terran against Protoss. Metal is useless vs Protoss besides some gimmicks, Air is useless vs Protoss besides some gimmicks. If you destroy the Marauder against Protoss Terrans only real solid option vs Protoss might be hurt too much. If you nerf the marauder, for the love of god make tanks better vs armored again.

For EMP again, EMP if over nerfed will screw Terran over vs Protoss. I think at the very worst nerf they should consider is from 75 energy to 100. Anything different than that and I promise Terran will have problems just like in beta.

As for poroboszcz, I don't agree with that guys post at all. It's much easier for Z and P to get whatever tech they want IMO. For me its always been easier to manage Protoss or Zerg, especially Zerg ( Remember I play Zerg too !! ). Also, I don't think he is a "top" player is he? Maybe a higher ladder player but I haven't heard about him doing anything notable.

And Terran won that match I linked because he made less mistakes, **** just listen to HD talk and you'll know what I mean.

TvP according to Blizzard last time, is a 50/50 win % in Diamond, with a slight favor to Protoss last time they said anything. So keep that in mind. Maybe by those findings Protoss should get nerfed.

And last but not least, the Stalker and Marauder are two very different units. Stalkers can teleport, they can regen shields, they have a much faster walk speed which is a huge advantage, and they can attack air, for only 50/25 more. Sounds like a good deal to me. Marauders are for sure better against armored, and they have stim which is beastly at the cost of their own life. Both are good, but IMO Stalkers are the most well rounded unit in the game.


----------



## Tchernobyl

the problem isn't the ease of obtaining tech, it's how easily it is to see WHAT tech it is.

You know the term "telegraphing", used in some arcade fighters? you jiggle the stick so much that the opponent at the machine already knows what you're going to do, and reacts accordingly before the move is finished.

Zerg do that in the extreme, and protoss to a lesser degree. Spawning Pool? zerglings. roach warren? roaches. Spire? mutas/corruptors, etc etc. Once they're all up, at the later stage of the game, you don't know what's gonna pop, but at the start of the match, when you're scouting to see what to expect? Zerg pretty plainly says "HEY LOOK HERE THIS IS WHAT I'M BUILDING. PLEASE COUNTER ME."

Protoss is similar, in the way that a warpgate means zealots, a cybernetics core means stalkers/sentries, a templar archive means high templars, etc etc.

Terran is much, much harder to guess.

Barracks alone? Marine. Barracks with reactor? marine. Barracks with tech? Marine, maurauder, or reaper. Three options. Factory/with reactor? hellion. Factory with tech lab? hellion OR tank.

Starport? viking or medivacs. with techlab, add banshees or ravens.

You can never really tell what exactly the terran is doing at all, vs the other races being almost blatantly easy to do so.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean there are lots of different options for that. I'm all for fast observers or faster overseers. Also what is so hard about an overlord spewing creep hiding tech early in the game potentially anywhere on the map? Same goes for Protoss hiding tech somewhere on the map with a pylon. The pros do this all the time and it hides their tech path just fine. Most Terrans use scan for scouting, and that means you have plenty of places to avoid scan.


----------



## Tchernobyl

it's an option, i've done it myself vs a terran (posted a replay where i hid my spire, some pages back). But I question the fact that it is even NESCESSARY to do so. Why in the hell should you have to *hide* what you're doing to have a chance at winning?

That, in and of itself, screams of a problem.


----------



## Nevaziah

I just did a timing attack against a protoss yesterday, I was terran. He only had 2 gates and i had scouted him. he had a few stalkers a sentry and a zealot. we were on Blistering Sands. He tried to block off his ramp but his buildings were too close to it so they blocked some of his stalkers from taking out my forward stuck units.

I usually never use sentries vs terran but I just learned: Forcefields are invaluable early game to hold off terran if you plan on teching up to colossus or storm . Even if it is only for 4 or 5 seconds that half the army has to walk around that means your stalkers/sentries can take out the other half if you focus fire quickly before they get around or before force field runs out.

Its a little harder on maps like scrap station and Kulas Ravine but then again, its a LOOOng walk for the terran to get to you, and should give you a unit total advantage when his army gets there.


----------



## rhed5

Any of you guys want to play later tonight?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


it's an option, i've done it myself vs a terran (posted a replay where i hid my spire, some pages back). But I question the fact that it is even NESCESSARY to do so. Why in the hell should you have to *hide* what you're doing to have a chance at winning?

That, in and of itself, screams of a problem.


I don't hide my tech vs Terran as Zerg in Diamond and I do fine. No problem there.


----------



## Tchernobyl

You sir are not a paragon of excellence that is a shining example to be shown to everyone









The fact that YOU think it's all right doesn't mean it actually is~ That's pretty much up to blizz.


----------



## DoomDash

And Blizzard apparently thinks its fine according to the new patch.







. Glad they agree with me.

Apparently they think the Marauder is more balanced than me too.

Thanks for reassuring me.


----------



## Tchernobyl

..so the very, very first balance patch is enough to reassure you? Yeah. No.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


..so the very, very first balance patch is enough to reassure you? Yeah. No.










Very first? Where have you been? I've played like 20 different balance patches







. I can almost promise none of things you mentioned will be changed ever.

It's like the Terran haters just go to a thread about how bs terran is and agree with everything just because. Not even remotely BS what some of these people are asking for. According to these people Terran should just be crushed to nothing and it should be nothing but PvZ in happiness.

Talk about taking Pylo's death personally.


----------



## Tchernobyl

The very first post-beta patch, you pedantic fool









I may waver towards sounding like one of those "CRUSH ALL TERRANS NAO" people, but honestly, terran is at the level that all races NEED to be. Zerg just isn't there. Mechanics wise, plus a lack of nifty little toys that terran and to some degree protoss enjoy.

I'm all for making the three races different, but in this case it feels more crippled than different.

(that, and bioballs can go **** themselves. that's all i bloody see in team games...)


----------



## DuckYy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Very first? Where have you been? I've played like 20 different balance patches







. I can almost promise none of things you mentioned will be changed ever.

It's like the Terran haters just go to a thread about how bs terran is and agree with everything just because. Not even remotely BS what some of these people are asking for. According to these people Terran should just be crushed to nothing and it should be nothing but PvZ in happiness.

Talk about taking Pylo's death personally.


Haha. Ohhh Pylo, how I miss you. Why did you have to die!

And I totally agree. I play in diamond too and I feel everything was pretty balanced. The only slight problem I had were the Tanks but that was somewhat fixed. I kinda think 35+15 is a big nerf but we'll see. I don't even know why they even nerf BC and Ultras. I never had a big problem with those.


----------



## DoomDash

That's because there is no reason to go metal or air half the time. Blizzard is encouraging bio by these nerfs to mech or bc's. It will become much much worse soon. Why do you think I think the patch is going to be ******ed? I don't want bio to be best option AGAIN.

As for Protoss, I, along with a lot of the best koreans think they are the best race in SCII. Go watch some of the latest interviews with top koreans if you don't believe me. Did you read what nIrvana said in that match I posted on the last page? That's a pretty common mindset in korea right now.

Balance probably looks like this TBH: P > T > Z. Z needs work but they still are amazing.

Zerg needs some work, but I still think they are great as is.


----------



## rhed5

Z is still amazing? Are you high?


----------



## T1nk3rb311

I agree that Terran isn't really overpowered. Most newer toss players go for a heavy stalker build and that always loses the game for them.

I can't tell you how many protoss players I play against that go all stalkers and always lose against a balanced force.

I've also seen terran players go all marauders and lose the game in like no time haha.

The point I've been stressing with you is not that Terran is OP, but their units are easier to use than other races.

If I play against terran, I go 3 zealots for every 2 stalkers. More sentries and colossi, and then it's gg almost every time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Z is still amazing? Are you high?


No, just do fine with them in Diamond.

Are you high? Man if I was a 100% Zerg player I would be ashamed of my fellow players







.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, just do *fine* with them in Diamond.

Are you high? Man if I was a 100% Zerg player I would be ashamed of my fellow players







.



Yes zerg is fine. But to call them "amazing" by any stretch of the imagination is gaga.


----------



## DoomDash

All 3 races are amazing







.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


All 3 races are amazing







.


I agree with Dash on this one. They all take different skills to master and to maximize potential.

I usually loose with zerg because I can capitalize on their mobiliy to spread creep, expand early but I dont macro very well and if I loose, its usually with something like 1500 minerals and 100 gaz in the bank.
- Which means I didnt macro well and saturate gaz producers or even just churn out MASSload of zerglings, which in all those occasions would have saved me. with zerg you HAVE to keep early preasure with zerglings or roaches and box in your opponent/harass them. Take out each unit that is caugh out of possition and control the map while expanding. heck, expand to another base and get some creep in between. I can almost guarantee you they wont attack the expo if they see a bunch of zerglings scouting around cause you can counter them easier than they can get back in defensive position.

If i loose with toss, its cause i get supply blocked and it delays my massing of units and i end up overrun with units on qeue or with gateways on cooldown and mass minerals and gaz in the bank.

Usually with terran, i rarely loose cause for some reason I build A LOT of supply depots since they can be raised lowered ALL Over my base with no real synergy of floor plan









Oh, and in case you are all wondering, I play *random*.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I played a couple of pratice matches today. What an utter waste of time. Everything is blocked off with rocks. The maps seem to have been altered to encourage defensive turtle tactics and air units. I like the idea of a practice league but IMO Blizzard ruined it by screwing with the maps.


----------



## thiru

There is no practice league. Just turtle league.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
There is no practice league. Just turtle league.

Sigging that.

I'm about to rage. I was moved from 43 in Silver league, down to 2 in Bronze league. How does that work?!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redmist* 
Sigging that.

I'm about to rage. I was moved from 43 in Silver league, down to 2 in Bronze league. How does that work?!

lol

Your points are only brownie points that Blizzard gives people so that they don't cry. Your actual performance is measured by a hidden match-making number that increases or decreases when you play against people. Changing leagues happens after X games, after which the game decides whether you should change or not. Your actual points and position don't mean much.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
There is no practice league. Just turtle league.

Just from the few games I played I could tell practice league is worse than useless. Those rocks everywhere! Ugh. The rocks have the effect of punishing quick aggression and rewarding passivity and stationary defense. It's awful. What a turtlefest.


----------



## thiru

How much memory does SC2 take for you guys? I was alt tabbing and noticed it was taking 1.6GB


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
the problem isn't the ease of obtaining tech, it's how easily it is to see WHAT tech it is.

You know the term "telegraphing", used in some arcade fighters? you jiggle the stick so much that the opponent at the machine already knows what you're going to do, and reacts accordingly before the move is finished.

Zerg do that in the extreme, and protoss to a lesser degree. Spawning Pool? zerglings. roach warren? roaches. Spire? mutas/corruptors, etc etc. Once they're all up, at the later stage of the game, you don't know what's gonna pop, but at the start of the match, when you're scouting to see what to expect? Zerg pretty plainly says "HEY LOOK HERE THIS IS WHAT I'M BUILDING. PLEASE COUNTER ME."

Protoss is similar, in the way that a warpgate means zealots, a cybernetics core means stalkers/sentries, a templar archive means high templars, etc etc.

Terran is much, much harder to guess.

Barracks alone? Marine. Barracks with reactor? marine. Barracks with tech? Marine, maurauder, or reaper. Three options. Factory/with reactor? hellion. Factory with tech lab? hellion OR tank.

Starport? viking or medivacs. with techlab, add banshees or ravens.

You can never really tell what exactly the terran is doing at all, vs the other races being almost blatantly easy to do so.

Gateway - zealots
Cybernetics - zealots/stalkers/sentries
Robo facility - obs/immortal/warp prism
Robo bay - col
Stargate - voidrays/phoenix

pretty hard to guess what protoss does too if you ask me


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How much memory does SC2 take for you guys? I was alt tabbing and noticed it was taking 1.6GB









I haven't looked yet, I'll let you know.


----------



## DoomDash

*Full of yummy yummy salty zerg tears*! Zerg players, bring your "Zerg no more tears shampoo"

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...istering-sands


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Full of yummy yummy salty zerg tears*! Zerg players, bring your "Zerg no more tears shampoo"

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...istering-sands

Is that seriously a diamond player?


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah he's rated higher than I was heh. Most Diamond players are around this level, including myself. Diamond does not mean anywhere near pro. As you can see I still have plenty of flaws of my own.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Full of yummy yummy salty zerg tears*! Zerg players, bring your "Zerg no more tears shampoo"

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/7...istering-sands

Hurr durr, my oppenent is massing air... I know what to do! MASS ROACHES!

Epic lulz when he starts to whine about imbalance too.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah that's what I found funny. This isn't the only Zerg I've caught off guard with "hidden" bc's that *****ed about balance. In fact one of them I caught off guard, killed 2 of his bases, and he managed to win it ANYWAY because Zerg can make a ton of corropters in a flash. He STILL QQed about Terran after doing no scouting what so ever.

Plus he is *****ing about balance and almost none of the issues people complain about ( Marauders, metal ) were used in that game. The only thing he can ***** about is my Planetary Fortress, but he attacked it with tons of SCV's to repair, 3 bunkers, WITH bc support. Did he even fungel growth the repairing scvs? Cause he should have.


----------



## Heret|c

w00t 2 wins today ... now I'm progressing :=)
6 pool rush pwns, I quickly attack and force the opponent to take off and go to another base then just keep pumping mutas/expanding.

Persistant people suck so bad, why don't they simply quit when I obliterate their base, but instead they just keep flying inside command center, simply prolonging the inevitable, this guy just wasted 26 minutes of my life.


----------



## DoomDash

I really hope every post you made is a joke.


----------



## swisha

Has any one every tried SCV rushing? like going 2v2 and over running a single persons base? I know it really hurts your economy but if u can get there fast enough killing their scvs and keep them from making more, it could be effective. Thoughts?


----------



## DoomDash

Thoughts : Its lame, and you'll never get better. It may be funny, or even at times effective, but you'll be no better because of it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swisha* 
Has any one every tried SCV rushing? like going 2v2 and over running a single persons base? I know it really hurts your economy but if u can get there fast enough killing their scvs and keep them from making more, it could be effective. Thoughts?

It'll probably work on the first guy and the second guy will destroy you if he stays in his base.


----------



## Heret|c

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swisha* 
Has any one every tried SCV rushing? like going 2v2 and over running a single persons base? I know it really hurts your economy but if u can get there fast enough killing their scvs and keep them from making more, it could be effective. Thoughts?

SCV's are the worst for worker rush. I highly recommend drones/protss workers,
unless you are planning to keep repairing each other. In 2v2 worker rush should pwn even harder, cos
1) you know exact location of the person
2) double teaming 1 person with drones = guaranteed 1 person elimination so it will be 2v1 and you'll win

Rushes are the best, thus far all my wins resulted from worker/6 pool rush,
all those advanced build orders on TeamLiquid.net are junk, I tried them for days they never work.
It always goes like this:
"O.K. now I am at 18 supply, let's see it says now I should build a factory ... O.K. .... click .... Oh crap he just dropped off a crap load of marines and they killed all my SCV's. GG"


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah that's what I found funny. This isn't the only Zerg I've caught off guard with "hidden" bc's that *****ed about balance. In fact one of them I caught off guard, killed 2 of his bases, and he managed to win it ANYWAY because Zerg can make a ton of corropters in a flash. He STILL QQed about Terran after doing no scouting what so ever.

Plus he is *****ing about balance and almost none of the issues people complain about ( Marauders, metal ) were used in that game. The only thing he can ***** about is my Planetary Fortress, but he attacked it with tons of SCV's to repair, 3 bunkers, WITH bc support. Did he even fungel growth the repairing scvs? Cause he should have.

yeah that zerg was rather **** and not really warranted in his complaints. The only one I'd have is what I said a few posts ago... Can't really tell *** you're doing with a starport (is it a medivac? raven? banshees? WHAT?!). And he was completely and utterly ******ed making more roaches and zerglings after seeing your banshees... why not make more hydras? duuuur -_-


----------



## DoomDash

Says bnet will be down for maintenance tomorrow... 1.1?


----------



## swisha

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Thoughts : Its lame, and you'll never get better. It may be funny, or even at times effective, but you'll be no better because of it.

agreed and it kinda takes away from the game. Like in CoH the bren carrier rush GG in under 5 min.


----------



## Deathclaw

haha i jush had my thread deleted, beacause i said that starcraft 2 is too hard for me, and nobody realized that i was making a joke and talking abour the lost viking arcade game in the cantina, i believe that only proves how people just vaguely play the game and not fully. to quote zorg from the fift element "a real cold killer would immediately ask what does the little red button do"


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deathclaw* 
haha i jush had my thread deleted, beacause i said that starcraft 2 is too hard for me, and nobody realized that i was making a joke and talking abour the lost viking arcade game in the cantina, i believe that only proves how people just vaguely play the game and not fully. to quote zorg from the fift element "a real cold killer would immediately ask what does the little red button do"

Your thread got deleted because you posted a joke thread in the PC games section.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:

Tournament wins by race:

Terran - 51
Protoss - 22
Zerg - 4

Tournament winners by race:

Terran - 22
Protoss - 12
Zerg - 2
Source.


----------



## DoomDash

I hope some of you caught day9 tonight... wow. ( still watching )

Another good one for you P players having problems with T.

Day9 even mentioned all the T players having problems with P lately.


----------



## Deathclaw

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Your thread got deleted because you posted a joke thread in the PC games section.

i'm completely fine with it got deleted, i wrote in first post (in white color) that i will myself gladly lock the thread if somebody dissaproves
still it seems that people who replied to the thread didn't play that part of the game, many praises to exceptions


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 









A useless statistic because we do not know the number of players of each race.

I'm not arguing it's balanced/unbalanced... just that you can't make a conclusion using that statistic.


----------



## DoomDash

I see a conclusion from that. The best players choose the manliest race! Smoking cigs driving giant mechs / tanks and shoot crap... yes please







.

Elite players have good taste.


----------



## DoomDash

Have you guys seen the warp in across the space near the nat with destructable rocks on Delta Quad? Super sick for you Protoss player, BreakingJail or w/e totally took a game away from me in the oc.net SCII tournament doing it to me







. I had never seen it before.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Have you guys seen the warp in across the space near the nat with destructable rocks on Delta Quad? Super sick for you Protoss player, BreakingJail or w/e totally took a game away from me in the Overclock.net SCII tournament doing it to me







. I had never seen it before.

You mean using blink to warp across from the "free" natural to the "blocked" natural?
There was a video not too long ago with a protoss player absolutely abusing the crap out of it against a zerg.

Or you mean warping in units across with a pylon on the other side?


----------



## DoomDash

No, you can no longer blink across space with blink. I mean, you build a Pylon on one side of the space, and warp in units on the other. Think about the map for a second and you'll know what I'm talking about. Its super sick / abusible.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No, you can no longer blink across space with blink. I mean, you build a Pylon on one side of the space, and warp in units on the other. Think about the map for a second and you'll know what I'm talking about. Its super sick / abusible.

... you're talking about the space that's abused in this video right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk5DD16CY1Q&feature=related


----------



## DoomDash

at 24 seconds, to the right of the minerals but a tad down more, if you build a pylon there, you can warp in units on the side with the destructible rocks.

Is that an old game because I swear they fixed that Stalker blinking across space thing.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
at 24 seconds, to the right of the minerals but a tad down more, if you build a pylon there, you can warp in units on the side with the destructible rocks.

Is that an old game because I swear they fixed that Stalker blinking across space thing.

I have no idea, the video is dated September 6th and I doubt anyone would bother to do a commentary of a month old game if it's not the current version.

I'm pretty sure this video was posted in this thread in the last week or so, Escaping might have taken his inspiration from it


----------



## DoomDash

I complimented him after the game for that. Not only did he warp in Zealots down there, to hit my SCV's, but while I split up my forces to stop the SCV's from dying he kept pushing the front, whittling down my forces split in half and my depots blocking my ramp. It was very pretty.

He tried it again game 4 but I built a depot there and knew what to expect so I was fine.


----------



## DoomDash

Probably old but its funny:


You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.cracked.com/video_18218_i...mplicated.html


----------



## thiru




----------



## DoomDash

I wish MM worked that well







. Well not really.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wish MM worked that well







. Well not really.


How about adding ghost for TvP?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How about adding ghost for TvP?


That's only if you somehow manage to get into late game playing against them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How about adding ghost for TvP?

Won't help vs Carrier mothership lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Won't help vs Carrier mothership lol.

Seriously you see those in ladder? you gotta show me those replays, I've never seen carriers/mothership used properly (well apart from the mothership rush... but that's just silly).


----------



## DoomDash

No, I never do, but that's because vikings > everything P has in the air. Same goes for Corropters > all P air really. WhiteRa did carriers to someone in a big tournament in beta... but yeah I never see them either. Kinda sucks, I hope they change that.

I want to see Carriers / BC's be as powerful as BW days.


----------



## Tommie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How about adding ghost for TvP?


Very important to add ghosts. BratOK did 1 rax, starport, 2nd rax, marine stim timing push, expand, ghost and it rapes protoss. EMP takes half their life off. And when HT's come out, you already have EMP on the field.

And yea, I do think Protoss air is a bit weak but Phoenix can be very strong with good micro.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, I never do, but that's because vikings > everything P has in the air. Same goes for Corropters > all P air really. WhiteRa did carriers to someone in a big tournament in beta... but yeah I never see them either. Kinda sucks, I hope they change that.

I want to see Carriers / BC's be as powerful as BW days.


I think BCs are more powerful and Carriers are as powerful as they were in SC1. I just dont use Carriers because they are useless against AA. Oh and I believe you're talking about WhiteRa vs TLO on metalopolis which was a few weeks ago.


----------



## DoomDash

I really don't think they are as powerful, because of the way macro works in this game. It's just too easy to throw down a ton of reactors, or just used all your saved larva, on a whim to counter Carriers if you see them. In Starcraft 1 you had to be very prepared for Carriers as you didn't have anything like reactors, or larva build up to pump out a ton of countering units.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I just dont use Carriers because they are useless against AA.


Way to many things that just dominate air units I think. I see a lot of people go vikings as terran incase someone does go air and even if they don't the vikings can still attack ground (why doesn't protoss/zerg get some sort of unit like this).


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Way to many things that just dominate air units I think. I see a lot of people go vikings as terran incase someone does go air and even if they don't the vikings can still attack ground (why doesn't protoss/zerg get some sort of unit like this).


Well phoenix can be really useful against ground units (although admittedly they are only good against light air in the first place) and corrupter can be turned into broodlords.. 'nuff said.


----------



## DoomDash

Well bnet is down in the US, 1.1 I hope.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Have you guys seen the warp in across the space near the nat with destructable rocks on Delta Quad? Super sick for you Protoss player, BreakingJail or w/e totally took a game away from me in the Overclock.net SCII tournament doing it to me







. I had never seen it before.


When can we see the replays? Would you mind posting some of yours?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Seriously you see those in ladder? you gotta show me those replays, I've never seen carriers/mothership used properly (well apart from the mothership rush... but that's just silly).


HuK used mothership rush against drewbie in the finals of gosucoaching tournament, and against some other guy on desert oasis. There is a vod somewhere in this thread of some guy using carriers against TLO quite effectively. Also Socke often goes for carriers/archons/high templars (lol) against terran in the late game. Two base carrier rush can be pretty viable against both terran and zerg from what I've heard, but I've never really tried it. I believe as the game evolves there will be more strategies involving carriers. I assume you're familiar with "archon toilet"


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
the problem isn't the ease of obtaining tech, it's how easily it is to see WHAT tech it is.

You know the term "telegraphing", used in some arcade fighters? you jiggle the stick so much that the opponent at the machine already knows what you're going to do, and reacts accordingly before the move is finished.

Zerg do that in the extreme, and protoss to a lesser degree. Spawning Pool? zerglings. roach warren? roaches. Spire? mutas/corruptors, etc etc. Once they're all up, at the later stage of the game, you don't know what's gonna pop, but at the start of the match, when you're scouting to see what to expect? Zerg pretty plainly says "HEY LOOK HERE THIS IS WHAT I'M BUILDING. PLEASE COUNTER ME."

Protoss is similar, in the way that a warpgate means zealots, a cybernetics core means stalkers/sentries, a templar archive means high templars, etc etc.

Terran is much, much harder to guess.

Barracks alone? Marine. Barracks with reactor? marine. Barracks with tech? Marine, maurauder, or reaper. Three options. Factory/with reactor? hellion. Factory with tech lab? hellion OR tank.

Starport? viking or medivacs. with techlab, add banshees or ravens.

You can never really tell what exactly the terran is doing at all, vs the other races being almost blatantly easy to do so.

While I see what you mean, there is one problem with this. You are assuming that they are gonna go for roaches or mustalisks, etc.... just because the structure is there. Personally, I try to place all the available structures incase I need to make a specific unit, so, in my case, just because you see a roach warren or a baneling nest, etc.... doesn't mean I'm making any of them









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I played a couple of pratice matches today. What an utter waste of time. Everything is blocked off with rocks. The maps seem to have been altered to encourage defensive turtle tactics and air units. I like the idea of a practice league but IMO Blizzard ruined it by screwing with the maps.

Yes, I played many of them and the rocks are in every map. It's very annoying if you want to use a large number of zerglings early in the game to constantly harass his base







On the bright side, you could use it as defense(build bunkers, anti-infantry behind rocks) and it'll give you a chance to try different strategies if you are ever in a situation where you can't penetrate an opponent's front









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How much memory does SC2 take for you guys? I was alt tabbing and noticed it was taking 1.6GB









Same here, I think around 1.5Gb. It takes a lot, but, not enough to suck my memory dry









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
When can we see the replays? Would you mind posting some of yours?

HuK used mothership rush against drewbie in the finals of gosucoaching tournament, and against some other guy on desert oasis. There is a vod somewhere in this thread of some guy using carriers against TLO quite effectively. Also Socke often goes for carriers/archons/high templars (lol) against terran in the late game. Two base carrier rush can be pretty viable against both terran and zerg from what I've heard, but I've never really tried it. I believe as the game evolves there will be more strategies involving carriers. I assume you're familiar with "archon toilet"









I would also like to see these replays as well. What's an "archon toilet"? Does this have to do with the motherships ability to wrap space and time, whatever that move is called


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
When can we see the replays? Would you mind posting some of yours?

HuK used mothership rush against drewbie in the finals of gosucoaching tournament, and against some other guy on desert oasis. There is a vod somewhere in this thread of some guy using carriers against TLO quite effectively. Also Socke often goes for carriers/archons/high templars (lol) against terran in the late game. Two base carrier rush can be pretty viable against both terran and zerg from what I've heard, but I've never really tried it. I believe as the game evolves there will be more strategies involving carriers. I assume you're familiar with "archon toilet"









They should be up in the tournament section soon I think.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I would also like to see these replays as well. What's an "archon toilet"? Does this have to do with the motherships ability to wrap space and time, whatever that move is called












http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzRVq3v29U&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
While I see what you mean, there is one problem with this. You are assuming that they are gonna go for roaches or mustalisks, etc.... just because the structure is there. Personally, I try to place all the available structures incase I need to make a specific unit, so, in my case, just because you see a roach warren or a baneling nest, etc.... doesn't mean I'm making any of them








)

it's more an issue at the start of the match, when there are very few to no other buildings already up. later in the game, any zerg base will have most if not all of the buildings up, but early on, you're telegraphing what you're doing


----------



## DuckYy

I think I have only seen one person used the mothership effectively. I forgot who was playing but it was on lost temple during the beta. Terran had Protoss contained two this two base but Protoss went HT/Mothership. I also saw nukes in this replay too. NUKE = TLO so I think TLO was in this match up. If I find it, I'll post it up.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzRV...layer_embedded

LOL - Brilliant!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 


[uxrl="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzRVq3v29U&feature=player_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzRVq3v29U&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzRVq3v29U&feature=player_embedded[/url[/URL]]

Hahah I hadn't seen that one







currently watching all the mothership/carrier plays I can find on youtube

Nope, I didn't know about the archon toilet (should be called archon flush







), but I did see someone in a stream do it the other day with storms instead (storm after vortex)


----------



## Heret|c

On a small map Zerg should always own terran, if no - one makes mistakes.
I just don't see how terran could get their wall up in time to avoid a 6 pool rush.


----------



## thiru

Is OCN able to put like restraining orders on people to stop them from posting in certain threads?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
On a small map Zerg should always own terran, if no - one makes mistakes.
I just don't see how terran could get their wall up in time to avoid a 6 pool rush.

You should have a podcast, or at least a blog.


----------



## Cretz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Is OCN able to put like restraining orders on people to stop them from posting in certain threads?

Theres an ignore feature.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cretz* 
Theres an ignore feature.

Nah I can ignore him fine without that. What is annoying is the all the responses he gets.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

pro troll


----------



## DoomDash

gg's cory1234


----------



## AblueXKRS

I've just discovered why HiddenDeath joins coop games then immediately leaves.

If he leaves, but his teammates win, that counts as a win for him too (this allows him to get about 6 or 7 coop wins every ten minutes). I'm guessing, even though he has about 80% of the Coop cheevos, he's never played a single coop game.

Has anyone ever played him in league games? His profile stats indicated he's a Diamond across the board, but with an attitude like his, I find that slightly suspicious.


----------



## DoomDash

Who is that?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do you have player card? who are you talking about.


----------



## BigFan

Guys play nice









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
I've just discovered why HiddenDeath joins coop games then immediately leaves.

If he leaves, but his teammates win, that counts as a win for him too (this allows him to get about 6 or 7 coop wins every ten minutes). I'm guessing, even though he has about 80% of the Coop cheevos, he's never played a single coop game.

Has anyone ever played him in league games? His profile stats indicated he's a Diamond across the board, but with an attitude like his, I find that slightly suspicious.

Interesting, but, I thought coop games are unranked


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
I've just discovered why HiddenDeath joins coop games then immediately leaves.

If he leaves, but his teammates win, that counts as a win for him too (this allows him to get about 6 or 7 coop wins every ten minutes). I'm guessing, even though he has about 80% of the Coop cheevos, he's never played a single coop game.

Has anyone ever played him in league games? His profile stats indicated he's a Diamond across the board, but with an attitude like his, I find that slightly suspicious.

Aren't you going to have more losses than wins if you do that?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Aren't you going to have more losses than wins if you do that?

Depends on who you leave behind. I can honestly say I've never lost a game he ditched, and I checked his match history, in a space of about an hour he got 39 Coop wins and 12 coop losses.

Yes, Coop games are unranked, but you do get achievements for playing them and the game does keep a record of coop wins/losses just like it does for Ladder games.

Can't find his player card... where can I search players?


----------



## DoomDash

sc2ranks.com


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
Depends on who you leave behind. I can honestly say I've never lost a game he ditched, and I checked his match history, in a space of about an hour he got 39 Coop wins and 12 coop losses.

Yes, Coop games are unranked, but you do get achievements for playing them and the game does keep a record of coop wins/losses just like it does for Ladder games.

Can't find his player card... where can I search players?

... oh I just realized that Coop= versus AI. I see now. What do you mean by player card? profile page?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
sc2ranks.com

page not loading

edit it loaded

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
... oh I just realized that Coop= versus AI. I see now. What do you mean by player card? profile page?

I guess his profile page.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
page not loading

I guess his profile page.

Go to your match history > score page > click on his name > profile.


----------



## AblueXKRS

EDIT:

NVM found it:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1/Hiddendeath/


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
But how do I post that here?

Ahh... no idea. You could search his profile on us.battle.net, it will show the same stats.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Nvm, I found it.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1/Hiddendeath/

Also noticed his 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 ladder match histories are empty. How long does SC2 remeber the games?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn* 
Nvm, I found it.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1/Hiddendeath/

Also noticed his 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 ladder match histories are empty. How long does SC2 remeber the games?

huh, they load fine for me, as in 32wins/54games(1vs1), 71wins/114games(2vs2), etc....


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
huh, they load fine for me, as in 32wins/54games(1vs1), 71wins/114games(2vs2), etc....









I mean under the Match History tab, not on his main page.

So has anyone played him?


----------



## DoomDash

No.


----------



## DoomDash

interview from an up and comer who is making a name for himself:

http://myrevenge.net/index.php?site=...ts&newsID=1497

Quote:

*
Did you believe that Terran was in fact OP, and if so, do you agree with the changes Blizzard is making in the new patch?*

I don't really mind the changes in the new patch, although I don't agree with the battle cruiser changes. Not sure why they are being nerfed. I don't think terrans are overpowered too much, I still believe P > T, but I think T is slightly favored vs Z. I think that was the case in bw as well, but z players started to "evolve" in bw, and the game became quite balanced. I feel like the z players these days are catching on and are playing a lot better.

Looks like I'm not alone after all. P > T IMO.

Also, I agree 1001001010110% about the BC change.


----------



## BigFan

@AdmiralThrawn Oh, I see.....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


interview from an up and comer who is making a name for himself:

http://myrevenge.net/index.php?site=...ts&newsID=1497

Looks like I'm not alone after all. P > T IMO.

Also, I agree 1001001010110% about the BC change.


We are talking in binary format now







Interesting interview, nice to see some Canadians doing well for a change. It seems that his strategy is to constantly harass his opponent using marines which isn't bad but I would if he is talking about MM balls


----------



## thiru

Btw you can still blink across space... just tried it.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
interview from an up and comer who is making a name for himself:

http://myrevenge.net/index.php?site=...ts&newsID=1497

Looks like I'm not alone after all. P > T IMO.

Also, I agree 1001001010110% about the BC change.

I agree with you that P>T mid-late game. The BC's/tanks did not need to be nerfed imo. It is the early game before or right after warpgate is done is when Protoss is most vunerable vs Terran. Concussive shells need to cost 100/100 imo.


----------



## DoomDash

Yep I've been saying that 100/100 for concussive shells would be great. Can even make them slightly slower now that Zealot build time is lower.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I agree with you that P>T mid-late game. The BC's/tanks did not need to be nerfed imo. It is the early game before or right after warpgate is done is when Protoss is most vunerable vs Terran. Concussive shells need to cost 100/100 imo.

Lol I think it's exactly the midgame where terran has the advantage. Early game is fine with gateway units vs MM and I can agree that late game P > T with colossus and HT's.

The midgame where terran has stim, conc shells, maybe ghosts and protoss has to still rely on gateway units is the hardest imo. That's why some timing pushes which hit exactly just before tier 3 can be reached are so hard to deal with.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

2 vikings or ghosts just nullifies all of that. In reality all you have to do is go thor marine and tank and steamroll toss


----------



## DoomDash

Thor / tanks vs Protoss? Are you crazy!?!?!

Yeah it's when Protoss has HT with 8 warp gates that it becomes all P. I do think T is strong mid-game, that's when I pushed Cory the other day. It's if that attack fails that things start to swing in Protoss's favor.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
2 vikings or ghosts just nullifies all of that. In reality all you have to do is go thor marine and tank and steamroll toss

Some stalkers, a bunch of chargelots just run all over that, easily.

Vikings really shouldn't be an issue from T as well. You should be making stargate as soon as you spot a starport.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but have a question.
Do you guys find that different leagues/ skill levels use different strategies?

I guess the reason I'm asking is because I read about all these different strategies, but in the Bronze league I play in, 90% of the matches are a early rush or some kind of cheese opening.
Terran= 2 barracks, tons of Marines then Marauders
Protoss= Zealot rush ASAP or build a pylon in enemy base and build cannons all over their supply line. If not, Phoenix rush or Void Rays.
Zerg= 9 Pool or something really quick, send a ton of 'lings to mess with the supply line

Honestly every game I've played today is one of these openings.
Its frustrating to lose to them, but now that I see every player is using these tactics, its getting easier for me to counter.
Is this what I can expect if I get to Silver league or is this how most people are playing ATM?
Also, can any Zerg players give me some tactics to stop these early rushes?
The only thing I know to do is scout these quick openings and hope I can get some Zerglings to match their forces or build some Spine Crawlers, or hope I can tech to Hydralisks agains a Phoenix rush, which I usually fail to do in time.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah generally in Diamond everyone goes for macro builds pumping economy early, not really rushing. People do rush, but its much less often. Pretty much you should always be scouting incredibly quick. Once you scout with a drone ( maybe your 8th drone ), you can change your build based upon what you see them doing. To hold off early rushes with Z just make a pool in time to get enough lings or a spine crawler out before they are in your base. Queens are also great defensive units, so a combo of queens and lings is good. The biggest key to stopping early aggression is probably Zergling speed. Try to get this rather quick ( not right away, but pretty fast ). What a lot of good players do, is build 1 extractor, mine 100 gas with 3 drones, the immediately pull them off to mine minerals. This way you can get your speed asap, and still have a strong mineral economy.


----------



## poroboszcz

For all Protoss players and anyone looking for some XvP inspiration here's my massive Protoss replay pack with over 300 replays ordered by player names and matchups. I haven't even seen half of these yet, but I thought I'd share. Only top players from all servers including AdelScott, HuK, KiWiKaKi, Mana, NaNiwa, NEXGenius, Nightend, Socke, Tester, TT1 and White-Ra.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PRJVXYGK


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
For all Protoss players and anyone looking for some XvP inspiration here's my massive Protoss replay pack with over 300 replays ordered by player names and matchups. I haven't even seen half of these yet, but I thought I'd share. Only top players from all servers including AdelScott, HuK, KiWiKaKi, Mana, NaNiwa, NEXGenius, Nightend, Socke, Tester, TT1 and White-Ra.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PRJVXYGK

Wow, nice. I'll start watching some tomorrow


----------



## DoomDash

I hear TT1 is probably the best of those guys.


----------



## cory1234

http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...43/42EQ-IOmsS8

http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...42/B1pTIuiOyt4

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1057

Check those videos out. Protoss is getting wiped out of the official pro league: TG Intel STARCRAFT II Open Season 1. Although not as bad as zerg, only 5 zergs left. Those banshees with point defense drones are sickkk.

I still have faith in tester, but I want Thelittleone to win; if he loses I guess I want Idra to win. A lot of money up for grabs.


----------



## Heret|c

Hey I have a question, what if I keep winning the matches but in the end it says I get 0 points for the win? What does it mean, I'm not closer to advancing to the gold leagues?

Also another quick question: what do the rating numbers and bonus pool mean?


----------



## DoomDash

I haven't watched yet, but Templars > Banshees, PDD, and Raven's sooooooo easy.

Rating is the total points you earn for winning.

Bonus pool is bonus points you'll get for winning, ( double what you actually earned ) that build up the longer you don't play.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You can get banshee's out on one base. You can't do that with protoss getting HT on one base. If he/she did then p wouldn't have detection for vs banshees.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Thor / tanks vs Protoss? Are you crazy!?!?!

Yeah it's when Protoss has HT with 8 warp gates that it becomes all P. I do think T is strong mid-game, that's when I pushed Cory the other day. It's if that attack fails that things start to swing in Protoss's favor.

I could be, but I've seen it done quite efficiently.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956* 
Some stalkers, a bunch of chargelots just run all over that, easily.

Vikings really shouldn't be an issue from T as well. You should be making stargate as soon as you spot a starport.

I disagree here. The original scenario was midgame protoss with colossus and small p ball vs vikings and mmm. You're basically thinking on one base, the protoss can pump out colossus and spend money on charge as well. No way he'd have enough gas for all of that. Stalkers uses 50, charge use 50, and the colossus robo, support and research as well as the unit itself is heavy on the gas. Would be impossible for a pro to have all of that.

esp in mid game. if you check out day9s macro video in the early case he pumped out the col, but it caused him to have quiet a smaller army. In those cases T will always have the advantage from mules and their MMM with vikes.

edit: this was posted earlier: http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...43/42EQ-IOmsS8

perfect example of that? Col on one base vs terran and just get steamrolled.


----------



## Heret|c

Well, my rating isn't going up I keep staying on the same number and I won like 10 times.
Is this a bug? Should I contact Blizzard?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I hear TT1 is probably the best of those guys.

They're all insanely good. According to stats HuK with 5 won tournaments and 75% ladder w/l ratio is one of the best. And Tester is said to be in a different league on it's own.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...43/42EQ-IOmsS8

http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...42/B1pTIuiOyt4

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1057

Check those videos out. Protoss is getting wiped out of the official pro league: TG Intel STARCRAFT II Open Season 1. Although not as bad as zerg, only 5 zergs left. Those banshees with point defense drones are sickkk.

I still have faith in tester, but I want Thelittleone to win; if he loses I guess I want Idra to win. A lot of money up for grabs.

Yeah, terrans absolutely dominate GSL so far. If you look at the bracket all zergs, except Idra, that have been matched against terrans got eliminated. Tester and HongUnPrime are still in the game for protoss. I believe Idra has a good chance of wining, until he gets matched against some korean terran as Maka and ragequits seeing early reapers.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL another example of that:
http://www.youtube.com/user/maxijazz...42/B1pTIuiOyt4

as mentioned before. lol oh man, balance that.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I haven't watched yet, but Templars > Banshees, PDD, and Raven's sooooooo easy.

Rating is the total points you earn for winning.

Bonus pool is bonus points you'll get for winning, ( double what you actually earned ) that build up the longer you don't play.

It's a midgame push, so yellowtoblerone actually has a point there. You can't have robo AND templar tech up when it happens. It's something like ~12 marines, raven, 2-4 banshees. Plus marines can ff obserevers. I've seen a lot of games where protoss is just helpless against it.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm 110% against 1 base Protoss period. Watch day9's video on Protoss warpgate macro vs one base w/ robo. It's incredibly powerful, and with 4 warp gates ( +4 more with expan safe ), it's pretty easy to hold off T until you can warp in enough to be mega ahead.

As for banshees, yeah they can be problem, I think you could get away with either a cannon or two covering a well planned out base and nat, or a robobay just for observers. It sucks that if you go heavy gate you don't really have an observer, but at the same time it really makes you plan out your build rather than just throwing out a ton of gates for no reason with little disadvantage.

I watched the games, and I think he just needed some more AA and he would have been fine. I couldn't tell, but he should have FF all the MM away, and just targeted the PDD w/ the Sentries. It seems like he was more caught off guard than anything. If it was a build that was too powerful he wouldn't have changed up his style for the next game.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Even day9 mentioned in that video he had problems and it was a work in progress. You can say with 4 gate you can ward off T's mmm ball. This is true and I've done plenty of it. However when they just push as soon as they have con or stim and the tos is just on 2-3 gate; its over. Even sometimes with 4 gate pushing out units and immortals sometimes its just helpless vs terran ball. The main issue is can the protoss out macro the terran when terran's got mules. A lot of the time during early game toss can't.


----------



## DoomDash

I can only speak from my experience that I don't like pushing early with T. One FF and it can pretty much be pointless. It almost entirely depends on them not being ready for a FF, and if they do a FF and split your forces in half it could lead to a fast and effective counter push. I've personally always found it much more effective to just wait for ghosts, that way even if I get one unit up the ramp its enough to see any sentries and sneak off a couple EMP's. FF = best spell in game second to none.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
They're all insanely good. According to stats HuK with 5 won tournaments and 75% ladder w/l ratio is one of the best. And Tester is said to be in a different league on it's own.

Yeah, terrans absolutely dominate GSL so far. If you look at the bracket all zergs, except Idra, that have been matched against terrans got eliminated. Tester and HongUnPrime are still in the game for protoss. I believe Idra has a good chance of wining, until he gets matched against some korean terran as Maka and ragequits seeing early reapers.

This. Tester won his games with brilliant micro and they were close, possibly the best micro I've ever seen with protoss in Starcraft 2 so far.

That banshee/point defense drone build seems impossible to stop. It forces the protoss to go robo, and if he doesn't it's GG either way, and there is no way to have ht's and and robo out in time. Especially since the terran also expanded. Just look at those videos, there is no way a terran should be able to roll like that. There is almost nothing you can do to stop that, even if the protoss somehow had observers and hts there will unlikely be enough hts to feedback all in time. Not to mention that the observer can be sniped with the raven being there; cloak = gg.


----------



## DoomDash

Sentries to target PDD. Again he wasn't even remotely expecting it. I kinda question it too because if you see a starport you should at least build some more AA, esp if you see a tech lab.


----------



## thiru

It kinda sucks that they stole dark swarm from zerg and gave it to terran.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sentries to target PDD. Again he wasn't even remotely expecting it. I kinda question it too because if you see a starport you should at least build some more AA, esp if you see a tech lab.


Because voids/phoenix are awesome vs marine balls.

Quote:



Sentries to target PDD.


Stalkers and sentries will attack the PDD and you cannot win when you cannot attack the air. Banshees are beast, just like about every other unit terran has.

Btw, I can't stand Day9, he thinks wayyy too highly of himself it's actually kind of sad. His video is also pathetic because he is playing against the AI on very easy. None of those builds take into account proxy.


----------



## Heret|c

Is there any way to bind map scroll to a side button instead of the middle button?
Because the middle button on my deathadder is rediculously hard to press for some reason.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Because voids/phoenix are awesome vs marine balls.

Stalkers and sentries will attack the PDD and you cannot win when you cannot attack the air. Banshees are beast, just like about every other unit terran has.

Btw, I can't stand Day9, he thinks wayyy too highly of himself it's actually kind of sad. His video is also pathetic because he is playing against the AI on very easy. None of those builds take into account proxy.

/facepalm

Day9 is pretty much Jesus. He's playing against AI because he's showing you how to refine builds, genius. Day9 is the only reason I'm in diamond. Also, most of what you're spouting is in-congruent, uninformed bull****.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Btw, I can't stand Day9, he thinks wayyy too highly of himself it's actually kind of sad. His video is also pathetic because he is playing against the AI on very easy. None of those builds take into account proxy.


Last video I saw he lost 9 matches in a row so obviously he doesn't win every single game.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


/facepalm

Day9 is pretty much Jesus. He's playing against AI because he's showing you how to refine builds, genius. Day9 is the only reason I'm in diamond. Also, most of what you're spouting is in-congruent, uninformed bull****.


take it easy fella


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Because voids/phoenix are awesome vs marine balls.

Stalkers and sentries will attack the PDD and you cannot win when you cannot attack the air. Banshees are beast, just like about every other unit terran has.

Btw, I can't stand Day9, he thinks wayyy too highly of himself it's actually kind of sad. His video is also pathetic because he is playing against the AI on very easy. None of those builds take into account proxy.



When did I mention anything about void rays or phoenix?

Sentries can attack the PDD with out it shooting any shots down, that's what I'm saying he should have done.

I'm also saying, if you see a Starport with a tech lab you don't just keep pumping Zealots. He had PLENTY of time to react properly.

And you're the only one in the world who doesn't like day9. I don't even remotely think he thinks to highly of himself, in fact everything I see is just him being a nice down to earth guy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*I'm 110% against 1 base Protoss period*. Watch day9's video on Protoss warpgate macro vs one base w/ robo. It's incredibly powerful, and with 4 warp gates ( +4 more with expan safe ), it's pretty easy to hold off T until you can warp in enough to be mega ahead.

As for banshees, yeah they can be problem, I think you could get away with either a cannon or two covering a well planned out base and nat, or a robobay just for observers. It sucks that if you go heavy gate you don't really have an observer, but at the same time it really makes you plan out your build rather than just throwing out a ton of gates for no reason with little disadvantage.

I watched the games, and I think he just needed some more AA and he would have been fine. I couldn't tell, but he should have FF all the MM away, and just targeted the PDD w/ the Sentries. It seems like he was more caught off guard than anything. If it was a build that was too powerful he wouldn't have changed up his style for the next game.

Learned that the hard way. It seems expanding to another base is pretty tricky but should be done very early on in the game especially if you are protoss, since, the cost of tier 3 units is just massive. I decided to give protoss a try and was matched against a terran opponent. I had something like 8-12 void rays along with some colossus and some other units defending my exp near my base. I found my opponent expanding right near my base so I decided to attack it to prevent him for getting more gas, etc.... Well, he had something like 5 bc's ready as well as some vikings. My rays made short work of these along with some of his ground units, but, I still lost like 4 or so with some injuries to the rest, however, when they charged up, the rest of the bc were falling like flies. I decided that it might be the best time to attack having destroyed likely most of his air units and proceeded with the remaining void rays, 2 colossus, couple of stalkers and zealots and a sentry. I mostly had to fight against some bunkers filled with marines, some more vikings, lots of marauders, etc.... Suffice to say, I took a gamble and lost all my defense units. Made some more but he had some tanks and some vikings as well, so, he took out my cannons and the rest of my units and base. Not bad for a start, but, not the greatest, however, I do like the chrono boost especially if used when expanding to a new base. You could get units up and getting gas in no time. I think I would have done better if I had some hts made and did a couple of storms on the group of marauders that were stuck together. Curious, when do you guys think is the best time to expand? I'm thinking that expanding very early is a good idea to collect some gas for tier 2and 3 units later on provided you have some d at your main incase of an attack


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but have a question.
Do you guys find that different leagues/ skill levels use different strategies?

I guess the reason I'm asking is because I read about all these different strategies, but in the Bronze league I play in, 90% of the matches are a early rush or some kind of cheese opening.
Terran= 2 barracks, tons of Marines then Marauders
Protoss= Zealot rush ASAP or build a pylon in enemy base and build cannons all over their supply line. If not, Phoenix rush or Void Rays.
Zerg= 9 Pool or something really quick, send a ton of 'lings to mess with the supply line

Honestly every game I've played today is one of these openings.
Its frustrating to lose to them, but now that I see every player is using these tactics, its getting easier for me to counter.
Is this what I can expect if I get to Silver league or is this how most people are playing ATM?
Also, can any Zerg players give me some tactics to stop these early rushes?
The only thing I know to do is scout these quick openings and hope I can get some Zerglings to match their forces or build some Spine Crawlers, or hope I can tech to Hydralisks agains a Phoenix rush, which I usually fail to do in time.


Hear are my counters (also, zealot rush is ALWAYS hard to counter as lings are worthless against them)
ZvT = depends on when you scouted the rush. If you already have quite a bit of gas and lings, build a banling nest, go about 60/40 speed/bane, lead with your speeds and flank with your banelings.

Or, go immediately switch to a roach build and research burrow asap.

He'll probably commit to MM balls so you'll need to probably go speedlings, roaches/hydra, muta to finish him off.
********************************************
If he reaper rushes, just throw down like two spine crawlers and immediately rush with lings.

PvZ

My least favorite matchup.

They'll usually rush with 3-5 zealots and your 8-12 lings will be worthless. You'll need to place at least two spine crawlers next to your base (so they can defend in front and your drone line) and hope for the best. They'll often boost out more zealots during this attack. You're best bet is to research the speed upgrade to lings and try to get into his probe line.

ZvZ
Match him with with lings and throw down a spine crawler or two.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Progressed into silver league the other day then lost 5 of about 7 matches yesterday







. I used to play Terran but made the switch to Zerg a couple of matches before i was put into silver. Guess I need to keep working on my Zerg









Matt


----------



## Nevaziah

Here are two matches I played as Zerg. The first Terran guy rushed me with marines and it failed (barely..)
Then i kept harrassing him, kept him from expanding too much. I realize my macro could have been better (taking the gold etc..) but Im still not used to the unit counters in Starcraft 2 (its doesnt come as reflex yet, I still have to think about it, especially with zerg).

THis is the game that taugh me the value of Brood Lords. If you can get there, EVEN TWO Brood Lords are devastating. The second replay is versus a protoss. I made some Brood Lords and again, they did not dissapoint!

Feel free to shoot me some tips. Right now I am ranked 8th in platinium league (66 wins /61 losses)
Kinda weird record, but most people are around that ratio


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Here are two matches I played as Zerg. The first Terran guy rushed me with marines and it failed (barely..)
Then i kept harrassing him, kept him from expanding too much. I realize my macro could have been better (taking the gold etc..) but Im still not used to the unit counters in Starcraft 2 (its doesnt come as reflex yet, I still have to think about it, especially with zerg).

THis is the game that taugh me the value of Brood Lords. If you can get there, EVEN TWO Brood Lords are devastating. The second replay is versus a protoss. I made some Brood Lords and again, they did not dissapoint!

Feel free to shoot me some tips. Right now I am ranked 8th in platinium league (66 wins /61 losses)
Kinda weird record, but most people are around that ratio

Thanks for links, should be interesting to watch. yes, brood lords can make a big difference if you are able to make enough AND defend them. They are pretty much like guardians with broodlings instead


----------



## Nevaziah

The best part is when you have six or seven broodlings already on the ground (with 3 or 4 lords) and the ground units (marines, stlakers) try to focus fire your Lords that just fly over a cliff, behind a wall or up a ramp. The Broodlings deal MASSIVE amounts of damage in a significant group that if you add zerglings or roaches, its VERY VERY HARD for ground units to deal with them since they also DO block the paths of ground units


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
The best part is when you have six or seven broodlings already on the ground (with 3 or 4 lords) and the ground units (marines, stlakers) try to focus fire your Lords that just fly over a cliff, behind a wall or up a ramp. The Broodlings deal MASSIVE amounts of damage in a significant group that if you add zerglings or roaches, its VERY VERY HARD for ground units to deal with them since they also DO block the paths of ground units









yes, you are indeed correct. The broodling lords are great since the opponent usually fires on broodlings instead of focusing on the source and by the time, they realize that, your broodlings and likely zerglings/roaches would have moped up the rest


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey man, I had a look at your replays, cheers for uploading them







. I see what you mean about broodlords although most of my games don't last that long to get up to that tech, most end around the time i get mutalisks.

I think i need to work on smoothing out my gameplay, I have no real plan after i get my spawning pool and extractor. Its only a rough guidline of expand, tech to lair, try see what hes doing and probably get roaches. Thinks like remembering to get cloak detection and anti-air in time let me down a bit. I think my macro is not too bad, or at least i can expand and get a good number of drones.

Matt


----------



## Nevaziah

Hehe I feel the same way Matt. Sometimes with zerg, I get caught up trying to mass units and forget that drones come from larvae too and most times I dont saturate my main or expos!

I usually have generic builds when i play as zerg.
Against terran, i go lings and roaches and harass them (while upgrading to lair and getting hydraz in case they get Banshees or just to control the map)
As soon as you can, make an overseer. they will help soo much to keep track make the terran player nervous.

Against protoss its mass lings and roaches and keep harassing at the front and sneaking in zerglings to see what they get. If i see a robo facility, I just make a spire, no questions asked. Sometimes I just go spire If i see them expand early or if they arent massing stalkers.

Zerg strategies most of the time depend on the terrain (map) so on each map, you can generate builds that will take advantage of it. ON Blistering sands, going around and breaking the rocks is a great strategy or dropping a worm between the rocks and the mineral line outside the field of vision.
On Lost temple, you can go quick air if your opponent is right next to you and rush them early.(vs zerg or toss)
So If you want to learn zerg, learn your maps and the spots to best attack to surround your enemy or to just ambush them when they move(terrans very vulnerable to this cause of tanks).

and ALWAYS, I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH PEOPLE, ALWAYS drop creep tumors. Drop FOUR in your base then send to in each direction. you see EVERYTHING coming before it hits you. Its not great for exploring enemy builds, but you get to see everything coming at you ahead of time and that + the zerg units mobility on creep, NOTHING can take you by surprise.

At some point i had 5 strains of tumors going around in directions in the zerg vs terran replay


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
When did I mention anything about void rays or phoenix?

Sentries can attack the PDD with out it shooting any shots down, that's what I'm saying he should have done.

I'm also saying, if you see a Starport with a tech lab you don't just keep pumping Zealots. He had PLENTY of time to react properly.

And you're the only one in the world who doesn't like day9. I don't even remotely think he thinks to highly of himself, in fact everything I see is just him being a nice down to earth guy.

Are you forgetting common logic? Your stalkers can't even fire until the PDD is gone, and by that time it's too late to do anything. It wasn't like his army was all air, he had rines/rauders with stim as well.

Day9's videos are for noobs honestly. He always pans the camera to himself during a replay, and then rewinds?!?! If you like a guy who can turn a 15 minute replay into a 40 minute one then I guess he is the guy to watch. It's not like he even says anything useful, he just keeps repeating the basics which are blatantly obvious to anyone that is platinum or higher lol.

I think it's apparent that not too many people like him as Husky/HD have 4-5 times more subscribers on youtube.

The mazijazzeee high def dubs were removed from youtube







. I found these so far, but they are in the SD, not HD.

http://www.youtube.com/user/followvn...0B2770F1B0EA8D


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Are you forgetting common logic? Your stalkers can't even fire until the PDD is gone, and by that time it's too late to do anything. It wasn't like his army was all air, he had rines/rauders with stim as well.

Day9's videos are for noobs honestly. He always pans the camera to himself during a replay, and then rewinds?!?! If you like a guy who can turn a 15 minute replay into a 40 minute one then I guess he is the guy to watch. It's not like he even says anything useful, he just keeps repeating the basics which are blatantly obvious to anyone that is platinum or higher lol.

I think it's apparent that not too many people like him as Husky/HD have 4-5 times more subscribers on youtube.

The mazijazzeee high def dubs were removed from youtube







. I found these so far, but they are in the SD, not HD.

http://www.youtube.com/user/followvn...0B2770F1B0EA8D

Do HD or Husky have a nightly live stream with over 5,000 viewers?

edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=150332
'nuff said. The man knows stuff.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Do HD or Husky have a nightly live stream with over 5,000 viewers?

edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=150332
'nuff said. The man knows stuff.

If you feel the need to live stream every night I think you have a problem. I don't hate the guy, I just can't watch his videos. Who cares really?

I wonder when this major patch is coming. I'm hoping it's this Tuesday. Hopefully Blizzard adds the feature to watch replays together, and possibly clan support.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
If you feel the need to live stream every night I think you have a problem. I don't hate the guy, I just can't watch his videos. Who cares really?

Apparently, _you_ do. You're the one who's been complaining about him. He's the top reference for non-pro SC2 players who want to learn how to play better, deal with it.


----------



## DoomDash

Day9 is FTW







.

Clan support and watching replays together? I doubt it. Blizzard is being slow.


----------



## BuckyWootmaster

So I bought SC2 this week but I am no good at all at RTSes. But I love playing the custom maps....anyone like Roundabout Wars?


----------



## DoomDash

I hate custom maps







.


----------



## BigFan

Guys, relax, everyone has their own preference. Personally, I just randomly watch matches that people have said are good to watch







The patch was supposed to be mid Sept which was yesterday but they don't seem to have released it yet.
@Nevaziah With Overseer's, I find changelings are great for exploring an opponent base because you are able to see exactly what is happening. Having said that, if they do notice you doing it once, chancers are they will catch it again and it'll be much harder to sneak one in. I find nydus worms with speedlings behind an opponent's base(near his probes) does wonders at destroying their economy especially if they haven't expanded yet and will halt their economy giving you time to harass his base with mutas. There are a lot more strategies with zerg like the other two races


----------



## Stance

Field-of-view wise, what's the more favorable aspect ratio in SC2?

1920x1080 (16:9)
or
1920x1200 (16:10)

I'm assuming 16:9 allows for a little more width on the overall view. Or is this one of the games where the vertical range actually expands with the use of 16:10?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stance* 
Field-of-view wise, what's the more favorable aspect ratio in SC2?

1920x1080 (16:9)
or
1920x1200 (16:10)

I'm assuming 16:9 allows for a little more width on the overall view. *Or is this one of the games where the vertical range actually expands with the use of 16:10?*

Id also like to know this


----------



## Heret|c

5760 x 1080 ftw


----------



## DoomDash

For those who want to watch the GSL's with out paying:
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=468071


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stance* 
Field-of-view wise, what's the more favorable aspect ratio in SC2?

1920x1080 (16:9)
or
1920x1200 (16:10)

I'm assuming 16:9 allows for a little more width on the overall view. Or is this one of the games where the vertical range actually expands with the use of 16:10?

Someone on here had a picture of SC2 with those two resolutions and if I remember correctly, 16:9 was the better choice


----------



## Stance

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Someone on here had a picture of SC2 with those two resolutions and if I remember correctly, 16:9 was the better choice










Thanks, I'll try looking it up in the morning. Guess I'll be going for a 1080 monitor, sure is going to be different from playing at 1680x1050 now.


----------



## DoomDash

I got a 1920x1200 monitor and a 1920x1080 but I can't really tell much difference.


----------



## Stance

Well the difference is relatively small ofcourse. But I'm sure it matters to alot of the professional players, tiny yet existing advantage to be able to see more on screen.


----------



## DoomDash

3 screens then







.


----------



## Stance

Yeah, good point. Though I doubt it's used/allowed at tournaments and such?
Game probably has a horizontal cap as well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stance*


Thanks, I'll try looking it up in the morning. Guess I'll be going for a 1080 monitor, sure is going to be different from playing at 1680x1050 now.


I moved from a 17" CRT(1280x1024) to my current 24" monitor(1920x1080) and let me tell you it was a big change. I just love the new screen and the higher resolutions means more space on desktops among other things







Your move might not be as big as mine was but you'll definitely see extras


----------



## yellowtoblerone

hhehe finally on a 24 now eh?


----------



## DoomDash

24 from 19 CRT = best choice I ever made.


----------



## DoomDash

omg TLO = my fav scii player ever. Just watched his GSL games... wow!


----------



## Heret|c




----------



## DoomDash

That's crazy. if I had some extra money I'd buy 2 more of my acers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


hhehe finally on a 24 now eh?


Not really, no, got it all the way in Jan, but, I haven't been gaming as much until recently with sc2 and the witcher









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


24 from 19 CRT = best choice I ever made.


At first, when I made the switch, it felt odd, due to the height of my CRT and the fact that my LCD was matte, but, I love it now and wouldn't go back to a CRT. Having said that, I just noticed a stuck pixel recently







Good thing, it's pretty hard to notice even after trying to find it


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Not really, no, got it all the way in Jan, but, I haven't been gaming as much until recently with sc2 and the witcher









At first, when I made the switch, it felt odd, due to the height of my CRT and the fact that my LCD was matte, but, I love it now and wouldn't go back to a CRT. Having said that, I just noticed a stuck pixel recently







Good thing, it's pretty hard to notice even after trying to find it










If switching on/off and resetting your monitor doesn't make it go away, try scratching/pressing it with your finger.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If switching on/off and resetting your monitor doesn't make it go away, try scratching/pressing it with your finger.


Thanks for the advice, +REPS







hmm, I turn off the monitor a lot more than I used to do with my CRT, so, that doesn't seem to be working. Not sure how to reset, so, will have to look that up. I have tried to scratch and apply some pressure whenever I see it, but, no luck either


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thanks for the advice, +REPS







hmm, I turn off the monitor a lot more than I used to do with my CRT, so, that doesn't seem to be working. Not sure how to reset, so, will have to look that up. I have tried to scratch and apply some pressure whenever I see it, but, no luck either










Your monitor might not have reset. I had a stuck pixel myself today, had to apply more pressure than I thought to make it go away.


----------



## DoomDash

So again, I'll recommend you guys go here and watch the GSL matches. 
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=468071
I strongly recommend watching TLO vs losirA, and sSKS ( tester ) vs JSLZenith. They mention how in korea P is considered the best, and if you watch game 2 of tester you'll see the power of FF, and how colossus and storm are not even needed to beat bio balls. Watch how he ff's, its amazing. No doubt bio would have won that with out FF.

And incase you're wondering, I installed the ice program he recommended and its awesome!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OKay. I can see why people may say day9 is annoying.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So again, I'll recommend you guys go here and watch the GSL matches. 
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=468071
I strongly recommend watching TLO vs losirA, and sSKS ( tester ) vs JSLZenith. They mention how in korea P is considered the best, and if you watch game 2 of tester you'll see the power of FF, and how colossus and storm are not even needed to beat bio balls. Watch how he ff's, its amazing. No doubt bio would have won that with out FF.

And incase you're wondering, I installed the ice program he recommended and its awesome!


He is strangely exactly where this new guy is match wise: (without installing any programs)

http://www.youtube.com/user/followvn...0B2770F1B0EA8D

I keep telling myself that I should just be patient a wait a day or 2 for the new matches to be uploaded for free







.

So close to rank 1 in my 2v2 division. I have a replay of a couple of hours ago where the brilliant "match system" paired with a bronze player...seriously it was great haha.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So again, I'll recommend you guys go here and watch the GSL matches. 
http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/viewtopic.php?t=468071
I strongly recommend watching TLO vs losirA, and sSKS ( tester ) vs JSLZenith. They mention how in korea P is considered the best, and if you watch game 2 of tester you'll see the power of FF, and how colossus and storm are not even needed to beat bio balls. Watch how he ff's, its amazing. No doubt bio would have won that with out FF.

And incase you're wondering, I installed the ice program he recommended and its awesome!


I bet tester could beat all of us with just probes. That doesn't prove balance if protoss needs brilliant micro against terran's 1a. The game was awesome though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I bet tester could beat all of us with just probes. That doesn't prove balance if protoss needs brilliant micro against terran's 1a. The game was awesome though.


Again, I'm not just saying Tester is the reason Toss looks so good. In korea it is widely believed toss is the best. Truth.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.youtube.com/user/followvn.../2/dkTYeOuEDEc

That was amazing, such a close game. Really great play by both players.

-- spoiler below --



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



I feel sad for Idra though, he almost had the game before these void rays popped out :/


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
24 from 19 CRT = best choice I ever made.

17 to 24 here


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nooooo IDRA!

but its good that protoss won. I hate them zerg


----------



## burwij

Tom's Hardware just posted an article with another round of SC2 benching on a ridiculous-looking custom map: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...orce,2728.html


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Cheers for the tips Nevaziah







. When I was watching your ZvT replay I did notice you were very good at spreading your creep. Another thing i need to keep in the back of my mind.

I have been looking at the maps aswell to a certain degree. For example I know that scrap station and desert Oasis both have very long ground distances but short air distances. It can help to get a fast expand up a bit more safely and allow muta harrass.

Its just a case of practice a bit more and remembering to do everything in a smooth...ish fashion. I doubt il get to the stage where I have it down so well that as soon as i have the exact number of minerals i can pop down whatever building or upgrade I was thinking of







.

Something I have noticed is, in the Bronze and Silver leagues, people seem to rely more on "tricks" rather than standard sort of macro play. For examplke when i watch HD or usky a lot of the replays they comment on involve the two players going macro and relying on a bigger army up front with the odd "trick". When i play most people try to win with drops, or quick tech to battle cruisers or mass void rays or proxy pylons, rather than using those tactics to supplement their main play.

Matt


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Tom's Hardware just posted an article with another round of SC2 benching on a ridiculous-looking custom map: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...orce,2728.html


Thanks for that







. It murders the cards


----------



## Stance

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Thanks for that







. It murders the cards























Well they did state it were unreal ingame conditions. But a nice benchmark nevertheless.

I'm surprised about the 460, it faired so well with the 470 that had a much better overclock on it. If the 460 boasted similar settings, it would pretty much equal a 470 according to these results. Not to mention the fact most 460's are capable of very high clocks. 460 > 470 for SC2?









- _Nevermind, turns out it's the CPU bottleneck causing these results._ -


----------



## deanlewandowski

1 more question for Zerg players:
if my Hatchery/ Lair whatever the main base is called gets destroyed, can I still spawn the larvae that remain?

I was playing against a Terran player who blew up my building with Marauders while I was destroying his entire base with Mutalisks.
Just wondering if I would be able to select them individually and morph them into units as long as the other necessary building (Spawning Pool etc) remained or does not having the main structure remove the option to morph them.


----------



## gerrardo

you can, just select the larvae with the cursor.


----------



## Tchernobyl

What he said. The hatchery is simply there for SPAWNING the larva and whatnot, the other buildings is what lets them turn into various things. Though you might not be able to turn them into drones without a hatchery, I'd have to check that...


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
What he said. The hatchery is simply there for SPAWNING the larva and whatnot, the other buildings is what lets them turn into various things. Though you might not be able to turn them into drones without a hatchery, I'd have to check that...

Yes, you can turn them into drones if you dont have a hatchery

On another subject..

Was playing some 1v1 quickmatch today, and me (a crappy bronze player with less than 40 games under my belt) got paired up against a Platinum player that's played over 500 games and won 60% of them.. how the hell is that fair?


----------



## gerrardo

thats part of the matchup system. its not perfect, but its not terrible. i get a few players every now and then that slaughter me in gold and i look and see they are diamond. a trick to you sir is to take the replay and watch what he does in comparison to you. learn from it and grow as a player.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrgull13* 
Yes, you can turn them into drones if you dont have a hatchery

On another subject..

Was playing some 1v1 quickmatch today, and me (a crappy bronze player with less than 40 games under my belt) got paired up against a Platinum player that's played over 500 games and won 60% of them.. how the hell is that fair?

I don't think the matching system for 2v2 looks at 1v1 stats.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I don't think the matching system for 2v2 looks at 1v1 stats.

was playing 1v1 and that was his 1v1 stats. he was like 300 some wins and low 200s in losses

I'm like.. 16-11 =\\


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrgull13* 
was playing 1v1 and that was his 1v1 stats. he was like 300 some wins and low 200s in losses

I'm like.. 16-11 =\\

Oh sorry I read your post wrong.
He probably lost a lot of games in a row, and the system wanted to match him against someone lower... but could only find you


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
1 more question for Zerg players:
if my Hatchery/ Lair whatever the main base is called gets destroyed, can I still spawn the larvae that remain?

I was playing against a Terran player who blew up my building with Marauders while I was destroying his entire base with Mutalisks.
Just wondering if I would be able to select them individually and morph them into units as long as the other necessary building (Spawning Pool etc) remained or does not having the main structure remove the option to morph them.

Yes, you can...


----------



## thiru

The only things you can't do without lair/hive are some research/upgrades.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrgull13* 
Yes, you can turn them into drones if you dont have a hatchery

On another subject..

Was playing some 1v1 quickmatch today, and me (a crappy bronze player with less than 40 games under my belt) got paired up against a Platinum player that's played over 500 games and won 60% of them.. how the hell is that fair?

Luck of the draw?








Just try your best and if you lose, you know why







Personally, i would look at the replay afterwards and notice the kind of moves he is making incase you encounter him again later on and to learn some new tricks, strategies, etc....


----------



## Nevaziah

Im ranked 12 platinium player and every once in a while I get matched up with gold players. I did loose against a gold player once. It is probably a compliment, meaning either you have been doing very well recently or your oponnent was doing horribly (considering leagues and points).

When I started, I used to watch replays religiously. Now I can tell what i did wrong by their unit composition vs mine, their expansions(i always scout now), upgrades, the minerals I have sitting in the bank, my supply count vs units made etc..

- always keep your supply count up. (getting better at this)
- Always use the minerals in the bank for SOMETHING (still working on this). In the span of a micro, sometimes its hard to work it out but that is what hokeys are for


----------



## DoomDash

1.1 is out tuesday. 3D support!! Yay~! I'll replay single player on brutal in 3D.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1.1 is out tuesday. 3D support!! Yay~! I'll replay single player on brutal in 3D.


Can't wait for the patch as well, although, it's more for speed improvements if any


----------



## Heret|c

I wish I had the shutter glasses ... too bad they cost $199


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Im ranked 12 platinium player and every once in a while I get matched up with gold players. I did loose against a gold player once. It is probably a compliment, meaning either you have been doing very well recently or your oponnent was doing horribly (considering leagues and points).

When I started, I used to watch replays religiously. Now I can tell what i did wrong by their unit composition vs mine, their expansions(i always scout now), upgrades, the minerals I have sitting in the bank, my supply count vs units made etc..

- always keep your supply count up. (getting better at this)
- Always use the minerals in the bank for SOMETHING (still working on this). In the span of a micro, sometimes its hard to work it out but that is what hokeys are for










yea i have problems paying attention to food in addition to the mineral/gas problem (more minerals than anything) Primarily a protoss player for now... I'd play random but I'm absolutely terrible with Terran, and with my luck of the draw I get Terran 75% of the time.


----------



## Intricate09

I've started liking a strategy lately that spawned from my using cheesey cannon rushes in 1v1. Basically, as soon as the game starts, I send a probe to my enemy as if I was rushing cannons, and hide him in the corner of the base or what not. But instead of going forge/cannons, I'll go two warp gate and use the hidden probe to get a pylon up right next to his base/econ and basically rush him that way. Is this a viable strategy in higher levels of play? I'm only bronze/silver is why I ask... it seems to work for me with 5-in-a-row.


----------



## thiru

No.


----------



## pewpewlazer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Intricate09*


I've started liking a strategy lately that spawned from my using cheesey cannon rushes in 1v1. Basically, as soon as the game starts, I send a probe to my enemy as if I was rushing cannons, and hide him in the corner of the base or what not. But instead of going forge/cannons, I'll go two warp gate and use the hidden probe to get a pylon up right next to his base/econ and basically rush him that way. Is this a viable strategy in higher levels of play? I'm only bronze/silver is why I ask... it seems to work for me with 5-in-a-row.


No. Anyone with half a clue will see the pylon far before you get warp gates. Actually, I shouldn't say that. Someone put 2 pylons in my base earlier today and I didn't notice. I crushed him though. Very easy to fend off.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Intricate09*


I've started liking a strategy lately that spawned from my using cheesey cannon rushes in 1v1. Basically, as soon as the game starts, I send a probe to my enemy as if I was rushing cannons, and hide him in the corner of the base or what not. But instead of going forge/cannons, I'll go two warp gate and use the hidden probe to get a pylon up right next to his base/econ and basically rush him that way. Is this a viable strategy in higher levels of play? I'm only bronze/silver is why I ask... it seems to work for me with 5-in-a-row.


Personally, I don't like that strategy unless you do it after the game has been going on because then it'll be fair to your opponent. Either way, if your opponent is keeping an eye on his base, he will likely see you put the pylon up and attack your probe, pylon, etc.... and then he will start building some d. Essentially, he'll be able to guard against it


----------



## deanlewandowski

Protoss pylons in enemy base worked on me the first few games someone tried it,
but now that I've actually played 20- 30 games I'm much better at scouting.
I think only lower level players will fall for this trick.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


I think only lower level players will fall for this trick.


Played a 2v2 earlier where my friend was zerg and he 6 pooled and I went proxy gateways and we won and he was raging. Guy called us a noob said we cheesed and all this, turns out he was diamond


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 
I've started liking a strategy lately that spawned from my using cheesey cannon rushes in 1v1. Basically, as soon as the game starts, I send a probe to my enemy as if I was rushing cannons, and hide him in the corner of the base or what not. But instead of going forge/cannons, I'll go two warp gate and use the hidden probe to get a pylon up right next to his base/econ and basically rush him that way. Is this a viable strategy in higher levels of play? I'm only bronze/silver is why I ask... it seems to work for me with 5-in-a-row.

The real strat vs Z in ladder on a normal ramp :

1st pylon at your base ( send this probe to scout ), 150 get forge, find enemy Z. At the bottom of his ramp build to pylons, if you do it right its a Zergling tight block. Build 2 cannons behind them. No early expansion, no Zergling run bys, and free room to expand on your own. Just becareful for muta, and get an observer pretty quickly near your cannons to see up the cliff.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
The real strat vs Z in ladder on a normal ramp :

1st pylon at your base ( send this probe to scout ), 150 get forge, find enemy Z. At the bottom of his ramp build to pylons, if you do it right its a Zergling tight block. Build 2 cannons behind them. No early expansion, no Zergling run bys, and free room to expand on your own. Just becareful for muta, and get an observer pretty quickly near your cannons to see up the cliff.

If this works on any Z player than their ******ed. Who doesn't put a overlord at the front of their base?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
If this works on any Z player than their ******ed. Who doesn't put a overlord at the front of their base?

At this point of the game zerg players usually send their overlord to the other guy's base... if the ramp isn't in the right direction he's not gonna see it.
Or heck on 2player maps I think you can send a probe to his ramp before his overlord gets there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
If this works on any Z player than their ******ed. Who doesn't put a overlord at the front of their base?

You do realize Tester is doing this to Koreans who would eat you for breakfast right? It's a good strat, even in the minor leagues. It's not perfect, but it can be effective. Plus people use their overlords for scouting a number of positions, not just their ramp.


----------



## DoomDash

Have you guys seen this? Probably fake. Some good ideas in there like the overlord creep w/ moving







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153362


----------



## burwij

Even if he scouts his ramp a pylon wall would be a major inconvenience. The whole idea is to make a wall tight to his ramp that he won't be able to get through and/or surround - there's only going to be space for 2-3 drones or zerglings to attack at a time. Once you get the 1-2 cannons up behind the pylons you're effectively forcing the zerg to 1-base. He'll either need to spread creep and put spine crawlers on the high ground to safely take out the pylons or tech to baneling/roach/etc so that he can bust out without suiciding 40 zerglings two at a time.

Any good zerg is going to always try to be one base ahead of you at all times in the game, so holding him to a single base is a huge advantage for you.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Have you guys seen this? Probably fake. Some good ideas in there like the overlord creep w/ moving







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153362

Yeah... but I call shenanigans. Psionic air vision is OP for protoss since they have it on the probe. Overlord buffs are insane (dunno if OP). Not sure if MULE/chronoboost cooldown is a balanced thing or not.

Edit: I meant sentry, not probe.


----------



## DoomDash

Fenix just his 2000 points on NA ladder :O. The second to 2000? First on NA.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Have you guys seen this? Probably fake. Some good ideas in there like the overlord creep w/ moving







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153362

Looks fake. I like Zerg changes though. We'll see on Wednesday.

They should also add:
- stim cool down increased from 0 to 10 seconds
- concussive shells price increased from 50/50 to 100/100 and build time increased from 60 to 120 seconds









Edit: What's psionic air vision?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Looks fake. I like Zerg changes though. We'll see on Wednesday.

They should also add:
- stim cool down increased from 0 to 10 seconds
- concussive shells price increased from 50/50 to 100/100 and build time increased from 60 to 120 seconds









Edit: What's psionic air vision?

What? and make terrans actually have to micro their mauraders vs melee/roaches in early mid game? The terrans won't stand for that!

stetman says no


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Looks fake. I like Zerg changes though. We'll see on Wednesday.

They should also add:
- stim cool down increased from 0 to 10 seconds
- concussive shells price increased from 50/50 to 100/100 and build time increased from 60 to 120 seconds









Edit: What's psionic air vision?

It says all psionic units will have aerial vision, as if they were flying units (vision over shrubs and cliffs). Since the sentry is psionic, Protoss get more out of this than other races.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp* 
Played a 2v2 earlier where my friend was zerg and he 6 pooled and I went proxy gateways and we won and he was raging. Guy called us a noob said we cheesed and all this, turns out he was diamond









Happens when you get beat by "lesser" players. One thing I'm sure to do when I'm Protoss or Zerg is to build pylons or place overlords in every dark corner of starting bases to make sure someone isn't doing that. One of my favorite things to do is send in a couple warp prisms to a dark corner and warp in DTs or whatever. (especially on Metropolis with the steam vents) Any friendly suggestions on how to get a Zerg partner on 2v2 to keep his creep to himself? (lol he has a bad habit of putting creep tumors too close to my stuff)


----------



## Tchernobyl

Some of those patchnotes make me lol.

Quote:

Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
whaaaaaat XD


----------



## deanlewandowski

What do people think about the (supposedly) upcoming changes in patch 1.1?
I think that it will help me a little bit, as one of my main problems is getting rushed by T/ P players before I have enough Zerglings out.

With Barracks and Zealots taking an additional 5 seconds, I think that I will have a little easier time defending if I go 13 pool on a smaller map etc...
Or should I be adjusting and building my Spawning Pool earlier,
or do I just need better scouting?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It says all psionic units will have aerial vision, as if they were flying units (vision over shrubs and cliffs). Since the sentry is psionic, Protoss get more out of this than other races.

Imba. Probe + blink stalkers? HT's storming what's on the cliff? Ghosts sniping and EMPing army up the ramp? Infestors harassing your base sitting comfortably next to it? Sounds cool, but imba.


----------



## Realcacheese

Those notes were probably fake.
Blizzard usually doesn't specify what bugs they're fixing.
That, and the psionic unit thing is completely overpowered.

A lot of the other changes I like though.







(zerg player herE)


----------



## cory1234

Blizzard admits to terran op: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/

Where the races are displayed it clearly shows Terran > Protoss > Zerg.


----------



## Twistacles

Tbh, I find PvT to be pretty balanced right now. It's my best match-up, actually.
Zerg probably has a harder time, though, since Terran can open a million different ways against them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 

Where the races are displayed it clearly shows Terran > Protoss > Zerg.

P>T>Z. I'll side with Korea.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
What? and make terrans actually have to micro their mauraders vs melee/roaches in early mid game? The terrans won't stand for that!


I micro my MM all the time... I must be playing Terran wrong







.


----------



## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 
I've started liking a strategy lately that spawned from my using cheesey cannon rushes in 1v1. Basically, as soon as the game starts, I send a probe to my enemy as if I was rushing cannons, and hide him in the corner of the base or what not. But instead of going forge/cannons, I'll go two warp gate and use the hidden probe to get a pylon up right next to his base/econ and basically rush him that way. Is this a viable strategy in higher levels of play? I'm only bronze/silver is why I ask... it seems to work for me with 5-in-a-row.

Most of the time, no. I usually leave my scouting probe in a corner without building anything, then later I can either use it to scout or build a pylon if it hasn't been noticed and I have enough Warp Gates to make a difference.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Dash just runnign and stop shooting is so easy it isn't even micro. I'm talking about actually selecting individual units and making them do different things to micro vs melee/roaches. As soon as slow finishes all you gota do is back up from time to time.. oh danm so difficult.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Tbh, I find PvT to be pretty balanced right now. It's my best match-up, actually.
Zerg probably has a harder time, though, since Terran can open a million different ways against them.

Ill side with what HD said, PvZ balanced, Terran OP.

But then again he plays zerg most of the time.


----------



## DoomDash

Koreans know whats up with balance. P > T > Z currently. Truth.

Also, if you think Terran micro is much easier than the others, by all means play them and let me see how far you get. I can almost promise you you'll get farther with Protoss with no more effort.

I move individual units as well, and I also spread my MMG out vs Colossus / Templar ( or infestor / banes ) in nice little packs if possible.

and are you forgetting I play Zerg as well? It's incredibly easy to micro Z... what are you even referring to? Nothing hard about it. I even burrow individual roaches for healing in battle, and have been for ages. I'm telling you each race is DIFFERENT for micro, but equally as challenging/not challenging.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Need help (again) from some good Zerg players.
What unit should I use to counter Protoss Carriers and Mothership late game?
I had a TON of Hydralisks (50+) and they were wiped out instantly, even with upgrades, agains a mothership and 7-8 carriers.


----------



## thiru

Corrupters.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help (again) from some good Zerg players.
What unit should I use to counter Protoss Carriers and Mothership late game?
I had a TON of Hydralisks (50+) and they were wiped out instantly, even with upgrades, agains a mothership and 7-8 carriers.

I never went against that before but...

1) Do not let them get that many carriers in the first place
or
2) Build a lot of corrupters and a few infestors
or
3) Send a lot of upgraded lings to his base if s/he's attacking yours


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Need help (again) from some good Zerg players.
What unit should I use to counter Protoss Carriers and Mothership late game?
I had a TON of Hydralisks (50+) and they were wiped out instantly, even with upgrades, agains a mothership and 7-8 carriers.


Face palm. Hydras are terrible late game. Imo they are only effective mid game, and I would really to try go with a muta build instead. It's a little more micro intensive, but a lot better for harassing and containing your opponent. Hydras are also very vulnerable off the creep. I usually use the creep tumor as soon as my queen spawns.

Late game your going to want corruptors/brood lords or corruptors/ultras.

Side note: Finally reached 1st in diamond! WOOT.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *listen to remix*


I never went against that before but...

1) Do not let them get that many carriers in the first place
or
2) Build a lot of corrupters and a few infestors
or
3) Send a lot of upgraded lings to his base if s/he's attacking yours


Mmmh I wonder what happens if you fungal growth interceptors







they're always moving when attacking, so they shouldn't be able to do anything when immobilized.
But yeah otherwise you should use infestors to neural parasite that mothership


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Mmmh I wonder what happens if you fungal growth interceptors







they're always moving when attacking, so they shouldn't be able to do anything when immobilized.
But yeah otherwise you should use infestors to neural parasite that mothership










I would much rather use mind control?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


P>T>Z. I'll side with Korea.

I micro my MM all the time... I must be playing Terran wrong







.


Over talking about terrans op haha. I'm just glad they are increasing the build time on the reapers for that stupid BS cheese proxy reaper bunker crap. I started using a different strategy for terran now, and I haven't lost since.

Where does Korea state it's imba beliefs on Starcraft? lol. I believe terran is dominating the GSL so far...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Where does Korea state it's imba beliefs on Starcraft? lol. I believe terran is dominating the GSL so far...


Their prime minister made an announcement about it last week.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help (again) from some good Zerg players.
What unit should I use to counter Protoss Carriers and Mothership late game?
I had a TON of Hydralisks (50+) and they were wiped out instantly, even with upgrades, agains a mothership and 7-8 carriers.

Corruptors eat Carriers and motherships alive. Use they to focus down each carrier one at a time. That's why they arent effective unless you catch your opponent off guard. I usually try to stay away from massive air units esp against terran.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Koreans know whats up with balance. P > T > Z currently. Truth.*

Also, if you think Terran micro is much easier than the others, by all means play them and let me see how far you get. I can almost promise you you'll get farther with Protoss with no more effort.

I move individual units as well, and I also spread my MMG out vs Colossus / Templar ( or infestor / banes ) in nice little packs if possible.

and are you forgetting I play Zerg as well? It's incredibly easy to micro Z... what are you even referring to? Nothing hard about it. I even burrow individual roaches for healing in battle, and have been for ages. I'm telling you each race is DIFFERENT for micro, but equally as challenging/not challenging.

Are you talking about imba or the most played race? two different things


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I would much rather use mind control?

Over talking about terrans op haha. I'm just glad they are increasing the build time on the reapers for that stupid BS cheese proxy reaper bunker crap. I started using a different strategy for terran now, and I haven't lost since.

Where does Korea state it's imba beliefs on Starcraft? lol. I believe terran is dominating the GSL so far...


What strategy are you using against terran? Marauders w/ shells and stim own me so many times.


----------



## raizooor3

Loving it so far. Only playing 4v4, haven't played the Campaign yet. Here's my SC2 profile:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2071137/1/Void/


----------



## ULAWE

loved the campaign, I just wished he didnt have to kill him in the end. I kinda liked him


----------



## Heret|c

The problem that exists out there, is that 99% of time you are playing TvT.


----------



## raizooor3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


The problem that exists out there, is that 99% of time you are playing TvT.


Can't say about 1v1, but in 4v4 got no problem vs. Terran with Protoss. Zerg does indeed seem a bit underpowered thou.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Have you guys seen this? Probably fake. Some good ideas in there like the overlord creep w/ moving







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153362


That overload creep w/ moving would be so great. I mean you could easily send a bunch of overload with your troops constantly spreading creep. It'll help with their speed and then you could just stop the overlords to spread creep anywhere. That nydus worm one is a big odd though. I mean imagine making one near their entrance, attract their forces only to cancel it the last second and make another near their cc, nexus or hatchery. It'll be severly abused and that psionic units can see in air plane is very odd so these among others are making me suspect that these are fake









Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Face palm. Hydras are terrible late game. Imo they are only effective mid game, and I would really to try go with a muta build instead. It's a little more micro intensive, but a lot better for harassing and containing your opponent. Hydras are also very vulnerable off the creep. I usually use the creep tumor as soon as my queen spawns.

Late game your going to want corruptors/brood lords or corruptors/ultras.

Side note: Finally reached 1st in diamond! WOOT.


Congrats on the new rank. We should get a game going sometime, sure I'll learn a lot from your and DoomDash








As for hydras, if you have enough and surround your opponent along with having them upgraded and on creep, they can be pretty strong. They are definitely stronger than in SC1(base damage is 13), however, they move slower









Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


The problem that exists out there, is that 99% of time you are playing TvT.


Means more practice against T opponents and you will enjoy those protoss or zerg opponents even more when you encounter them


----------



## Heret|c

Well, today was my first legitimate non - rush win (it happened vs zerg with 3 rax ftw!)

I sent in the first marauder and his zerglings surrounded him and while he was tanking them,
the entire army was firing away and completely decimated them!


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Face palm. Hydras are terrible late game. Imo they are only effective mid game, and I would really to try go with a muta build instead. It's a little more micro intensive, but a lot better for harassing and containing your opponent. Hydras are also very vulnerable off the creep. I usually use the creep tumor as soon as my queen spawns.

Late game your going to want corruptors/brood lords or corruptors/ultras.

Side note: Finally reached 1st in diamond! WOOT.


 This.

Also, how many points is first in your division? It's so skewed across the board. Some people its 1800-2000 and others its 800.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
This.

Also, how many points is first in your division? It's so skewed across the board. Some people its 1800-2000 and others its 800.

His is certainly much easier to get #1 than mine is. Well I haven't checked Cory's score but I'm guessing 1100~1200? He his higher than me at the moment but in my division he wouldn't even be top 30 with 1200 points.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Are you talking about imba or the most played race? two different things

Just tier list.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 

Where does Korea state it's imba beliefs on Starcraft? lol. I believe terran is dominating the GSL so far...

Just what the top players are saying. If you watch Artosis and Tasteless cast some of the games they mention this, as well as a lot of recent interviews with a lot of top koreans. Terran has been pretty successful in the tournament, but Protoss was far more successful in qualifying rounds. We'll have to see how it pans out, could be interesting.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 

Side note: Finally reached 1st in diamond! WOOT.

Get first in my division and I'll be impressed.

I wish I was in your division I would look better with my SC2 card







.

*Edit* Cory I only see you at 12th @ 1056 points?

And cory, what is this PvT strat you have? Let's test it out on me because I would like to see it / learn it.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You do realize Tester is doing this to Koreans who would eat you for breakfast right? It's a good strat, even in the minor leagues. It's not perfect, but it can be effective. Plus people use their overlords for scouting a number of positions, not just their ramp.

Not it's not a good strat. This shouldn't work on any Z player silver or better. 1st overlord is to slow to get any good recon on your enemy so park him at your ramp. And your drone should scout at 9 and see the enemy probe coming in. It's unfathomable to me that this works on any competent Z player.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Not it's not a good strat. This shouldn't work on any Z player silver or better. 1st overlord is to slow to get any good recon on your enemy so park him at your ramp. And your drone should scout at 9 and see the enemy probe coming in. It's unfathomable to me that this works on any competent Z player.

If you look at high level replays every zerg sends his first overlord to the opponent's base to scout.
Yes a drone scouts at 9, but in the strat he described, you send your probe after your first pylon which is 9, which doesn't look suspicious at all.

It starts getting suspicious when the other player doesn't see your probe come into his base and when he sees you building a forge. This is at around 12-13 food, most zergs haven't even put down their spawning pool. Shortly after, you put down 2 pylons, blocking the ramp before any zerglings are anywhere near ready.

I've seen it done.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
If you look at high level replays every zerg sends his first overlord to the opponent's base to scout.
Yes a drone scouts at 9, but in the strat he described, you send your probe after your first pylon which is 9, which doesn't look suspicious at all.

It starts getting suspicious when the other player doesn't see your probe come into his base and when he sees you building a forge. This is at around 12-13 food, most zergs haven't even put down their spawning pool. Shortly after, you put down 2 pylons, blocking the ramp before any zerglings are anywhere near ready.

I've seen it done.

Even if you do send your first OL to the enemy base (which I stopped doing a long time ago) your second OL comes out at 10. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that the Z player was incompetent


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Even if you do send your first OL to the enemy base (which I stopped doing a long time ago) your second OL comes out at 10. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that the Z player was incompetent

I'm not sure your second overlord has the time to make it to the ramp in time. In any case, it doesn't matter because at 12-13 food a zerg player hasn't even started his spawning pool yet.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm not sure your second overlord has the time to make it to the ramp in time. In any case, it doesn't matter because at 12-13 food a zerg player hasn't even started his spawning pool yet.

Okay. Let's pretend for the sake of argument that the Z player falls for this. The longest this will last is second tier when the Z player gets the nydus network.At most this just extends the game 10 minutes or so.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Okay. Let's pretend for the sake of argument that the Z player falls for this. The longest this will last is second tier when the Z player gets the nydus network.At most this just extends the game 10 minutes or so.

Protoss won't sit around doing nothing while the zerg techs. He didn't cut probes, so his economy is normal.


----------



## Hillskill

Just been playing my way through the campaign and was in the process of beating "the Great Train Robbery" this morning. Had the game crash halfway through and I could still hear game music playing. No biggie I thought, as I had just got an autosave before the crash. The game then reported a corrupt install and launched a Repairer. Been through this process several times now and it keeps crashing







Anyone else had a similar problem that they managed to fix ? Don't really want to have to re-install from scratch but will do if I have to.


----------



## thecoalition

yea i had the repair/crash/repeat issue a couple weeks ago. Reinstall buddy. Reinstall.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
and are you forgetting I play Zerg as well? It's incredibly easy to micro Z... what are you even referring to? Nothing hard about it. I even burrow individual roaches for healing in battle, and have been for ages.

Well, that's easy. Good players micro individual broodlings.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Over talking about terrans op haha. I'm just glad they are increasing the build time on the reapers for that stupid BS cheese proxy reaper bunker crap. I started using a different strategy for terran now, and I haven't lost since.

So now you'll have proxy rax marauder bunker cheese, which will work even better due to increased zealot build time. What's your PvT strat?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
His is certainly much easier to get #1 than mine is. Well I haven't checked Cory's score but I'm guessing 1100~1200? He his higher than me at the moment but in my division he wouldn't even be top 30 with 1200 points.

Just tier list.

Just what the top players are saying. If you watch Artosis and Tasteless cast some of the games they mention this, as well as a lot of recent interviews with a lot of top koreans. Terran has been pretty successful in the tournament, but Protoss was far more successful in qualifying rounds. We'll have to see how it pans out, could be interesting.

Get first in my division and I'll be impressed.

I wish I was in your division I would look better with my SC2 card







.

*Edit* Cory I only see you at 12th @ 1056 points?

And cory, what is this PvT strat you have? Let's test it out on me because I would like to see it / learn it.

I would like to test it out against you as well. As for 1st place I was refering to my 2v2 randoms (~1200) It's in my sig. 2s random is harder than you think, many times the matching making gives me terrible players. This guy doesn't seem to want to let me have 1st place







, he has over 100 bonus pool and as soon as I passed him he played a couple lol. Only 2 points back tho.

My 1v1 league isn't the best, but it certainly isn't the worst. I've seen diamond leagues where 900 gets you first haha. Check out Drewbie's league. To make the top 10 you need over 1500.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I would like to test it out against you as well. As for 1st place I was refering to my 2v2 randoms (~1200) It's in my sig. 2s random is harder than you think, many times the matching making gives me terrible players. This guy doesn't seem to want to let me have 1st place







, he has over 100 bonus pool and as soon as I passed him he played a couple lol. Only 2 points back tho.

My 1v1 league isn't the best, but it certainly isn't the worst. I've seen diamond leagues where 900 gets you first haha. Check out Drewbie's league. To make the top 10 you need over 1500.

I realized it was your 2v2 league after I laid down for bed but I was too tired to correct myself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
Not it's not a good strat. This shouldn't work on any Z player silver or better. 1st overlord is to slow to get any good recon on your enemy so park him at your ramp. And your drone should scout at 9 and see the enemy probe coming in. It's unfathomable to me that this works on any competent Z player.

The top players mention how sick this strat is.. just watch the GSL they mention it quite a few times, and it actually happens to someone PvP even in the tournament.


----------



## Heret|c

It's funny how banelings are supposed to be a "hard counter" to marines/marauders.
Woobity - do you just countered marines ... oh wait you lost your entire army too ...


----------



## deanlewandowski

Does anyone know what "fk ot" means?
I just beat a Terran Player as Zerg, and he typed this just as he left.


----------



## DoomDash

No idea.

Guys, I just won my last game in the overclock.net SCII tournament and I'm in the finals now. Looks like I'll be playing ockoberfest, who is a 1400~ Diamond Protoss player in the finals!! Hope I can compete with that.

And its funny, the entire tournament I've fought against 100% Protoss players.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No idea.

Guys, I just won my last game in the overclock.net SCII tournament and I'm in the finals now. Looks like I'll be playing ockoberfest, who is a 1400~ Diamond Protoss player in the finals!! Hope I can compete with that.

And its funny, the entire tournament I've fought against 100% Protoss players.

Congrats on reaching so far. That means that you have already developed a strategy against P since you've been playing soo much against them







Replays up?


----------



## Thedark1337

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Does anyone know what "fk ot" means?
I just beat a Terran Player as Zerg, and he typed this just as he left.

i guess that means F out? mean F off? NOTE: I am not circumventing that dang filter, so please don't infract me mods

EDIT: Man. i keep on losing in 4 v 4, can't play right or something. I tried to send in some units and they were able to build a damn barracks right below me -,- I got collosus rushed also >.> i tried to counter with my own but was unable to he outnumbered mine. GG lol


----------



## Wishmaker

I want the DLC out







. I kind of got bored with the game ... I want some Queen of Blades action


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Maybe in a few years when protoss and zerg campaigns are out the game will be balanced :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Congrats on reaching so far. That means that you have already developed a strategy against P since you've been playing soo much against them







Replays up?









http://www.MegaShare.com/2577622

I play it safe and do the same build 3 times. I pretty much always do this build vs protoss as its very hard to stop.


----------



## thiru

Congrats









What race does oktoberfest play? someone has to cast it, or at least stream it!


----------



## DoomDash

He plays Protoss. All protoss in every match so far lol.


----------



## thiru

Proof that terran is OP:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=154198


----------



## DoomDash

haha thats silly.


----------



## MaverickNemesis

i got razer makos for sale if anyone is interested.... i havent played SC2 online yet but hope to soon


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Proof that terran is OP:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=154198












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


haha thats silly.


Silly, but, very interesting and funny as well


----------



## Heret|c

I think I finally found out the secret of how to win successfully:

Step 1: bulid 3 baracks and start pumping out marauders and marines,
Step 2: research stim, concussive shell and upgrade infantry armor, 
Step 3: Obliterate your oponnent!

Stim pack owns so much lol, I just pwned some protoss guy and he was like:
terran r op, I was like lol.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm not sure your second overlord has the time to make it to the ramp in time. In any case, it doesn't matter because at 12-13 food a zerg player hasn't even started his spawning pool yet.


So 9 pooling with zerg is a bad idea, even if you're not rushing? I've seemed to have luck doing it that way. Maybe I just played some bad players.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jrgull13*


So 9 pooling with zerg is a bad idea, even if you're not rushing? I've seemed to have luck doing it that way. Maybe I just played some bad players.


It's going to set you back in drone count. Not sure how much since getting an early pool means getting an early queen.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jrgull13*


So 9 pooling with zerg is a bad idea, even if you're not rushing? I've seemed to have luck doing it that way. Maybe I just played some bad players.


If you don't intend to rush you should 14-15 pool if you feel comfortable, 13 if you have suspicion of cheese. You can also expand before getting your spawning pool, but not recommended unless your plat/diamond.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


It's going to set you back in drone count. Not sure how much since getting an early pool means getting an early queen.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


If you don't intend to rush you should 14-15 pool if you feel comfortable, 13 if you have suspicion of cheese. You can also expand before getting your spawning pool, but not recommended unless your plat/diamond.


hmm, interesting. I always build till 10 drones, get OL then build pool, followed by some drones until done for queen and more drones from then. I use the queen's spawn for more larva to make up for some of the time lost and I find the queen is helpful for defense incase of a rush. Good? Bad? Share your thoughts


----------



## DoomDash

I've told you guys before but I always do 14 pool, 15 hatch. Like clockwork.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've told you guys before but I always do 14 pool, 15 hatch. Like clockwork.


Yes, I know you mentioned it before, but, the problem I see with this is that if you are rushed, you pretty much lost. I mean no zerglings until pool and even then, with a hatch, you lose 300 minerals which could go towards a queen and some zerglings/colonies. Do you get rushed in many games?


----------



## DoomDash

No, because people know better in Diamond.







. It's not that the build is strong vs rushes, it's that a smart player can pull through with little losses even being rushed.

I've watched my friends try and deal with rushes, they are bronze all the way to platinum, and their control makes them lose so many spots I would not. You have to play smart ( stalling rushes till your units are out, not losing too many drones or many at all by proper micro / running, knowing when to run or when to attack, knowing how to use your drones for support ect ), and micro well. Most of this comes with watching good players deal with it, and practice.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, because people know better in Diamond.







. It's not that the build is strong vs rushes, it's that a smart player can pull through with little losses even being rushed.

I've watched my friends try and deal with rushes, they are bronze all the way to platinum, and their control makes them lose so many spots I would not. You have to play smart ( stalling rushes till your units are out, not losing too many drones or many at all by proper micro / running, knowing when to run or when to attack, knowing how to use your drones for support ect ), and micro well. Most of this comes with watching good players deal with it, and practice.


True, stalling is one of the best ways to defend against a rush and likely your own chance of survival. We should have a friendly match once I've played some more. I'll be fun to play against an opponent such as yourself


----------



## DoomDash

Sure my friend info is on my sc2 card in sig.

I still need improvements as well







. I should play more.


----------



## Twistacles

Looking for practice partners. Any/all races, preferably in the 950+ Diamond range.
Twistacles.511


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


If you don't intend to rush you should 14-15 pool if you feel comfortable, 13 if you have suspicion of cheese. You can also expand before getting your spawning pool, but not recommended unless your plat/diamond.


I'm a dedicated zerg player and I always 10 pool because I feel it's the most flexible. 13-15 pool might give you an economic advantage but I think it's mostly trivial. Depending on the map I'll 10 pool, 9 overlord, 9-11 drone then 12-14 ling to harass or if I want to tech to muta ill do 9-13 drone then 14 ling to scout/harass. I think you should always 10 pool facing another zerg because it seems like they always do the same or similar to get those 6 lings out fast. I always mass lings slowly into muta's (usually doesn't get that far) because it seems like they try either go to tier 2 or expo before they can defend too much. ZvZ is easily my best match up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mr.derp*


I'm a dedicated zerg player and I always 10 pool because I feel it's the most flexible. 13-15 pool might give you an economic advantage but I think it's mostly trivial. Depending on the map I'll 10 pool, 9 overlord, 9-11 drone then 12-14 ling to harass or if I want to tech to muta ill do 9-13 drone then 14 ling to scout/harass.


Nice to find someone who sides with me on the 10 pool thing







I also find that 10 pool is great for getting defense and just feels right.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Looking for practice partners. Any/all races, preferably in the 950+ Diamond range.
Twistacles.511

I'd be over that if I played more. I added you.


----------



## poroboszcz

TLO fighting!


----------



## thiru

Go TLO!


----------



## poroboszcz

Stream for those who can't access gomtv: http://www.livestream.com/sciirob


----------



## thiru

Here too
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/user...hp?user=Fisher

Epic game that's still going on. TLO is the most intereting Terran you can possibly watch.


----------



## thiru

That was the SICKEST comeback ever!


----------



## Dom_sufc

I find watching SC2 is more interesting that watching sports tbh









I haven't even been playing lately, but I still like watching them.


----------



## puzzledazn

Looking for starcraft 2 players to play with








I'm in diamond









Email: [email protected]


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.MegaShare.com/2577622

I play it safe and do the same build 3 times. I pretty much always do this build vs protoss as its very hard to stop.

Silly how you can do the exact same build 3 times in a row and still win. Seems like zealots with speed are quite strong against it though as EMP doesn't hurt them too much. I wonder how would a 2 gate robo work against it. I think you can have 1 - 2 colossi with range by the time the attack comes.

Aren't you afraid that your opponent for finals can watch this replays and work on some good counter? Maybe you should get some other solid BO just in case. Marine/Raven/Banshee seems really strong at the moment.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Silly how you can do the exact same build 3 times in a row and still win. Seems like zealots with speed are quite strong against it though as EMP doesn't hurt them too much. I wonder how would a 2 gate robo work against it. I think you can have 1 - 2 colossi with range by the time the attack comes.

Aren't you afraid that your opponent for finals can watch this replays and work on some good counter? Maybe you should get some other solid BO just in case. Marine/Raven/Banshee seems really strong at the moment.

I've been doing this build against P for a long time, and it works super well. A lot of the times I lose it's my fault. I'm not too worried about him knowing what I'm doing because that means I can easily trick him if I decide to do something else. I played a few practice games with a Diamond 1000~ Protoss last night and I changed up my game a couple times and still crushed him 4-0.

It may work, and it may not. I will still continue practicing other ideas just in case.

Also, it's not really silly that it won 3 times in a row. You can ask Ajax that he said he doesn't really know how to beat the build in the hands of a skilled player ( he actually said I was the best Terran he's ever fought, what a compliment







). I'm sure he is capable of beating it, but just like the pros it may take quite a few times losing to it over and over. Day9 tested how to stop an immortal rush with Terran in beta, and lost 16 straight before he started figuring it out. Learning isn't instant.

Did you watch them then?


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
If you don't intend to rush you should 14-15 pool if you feel comfortable, 13 if you have suspicion of cheese. You can also expand before getting your spawning pool, but not recommended unless your plat/diamond.


I don't usually play zerg, but when I do my 2's partner is also zerg so we almost always rush. And yes, I have noticed it shorts me on drones, for atleast a little bit i'm struggling to keep my mineral count high enough to build units constantly


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've been doing this build against P for a long time, and it works super well. A lot of the times I lose it's my fault. I'm not too worried about him knowing what I'm doing because that means I can easily trick him if I decide to do something else. I played a few practice games with a Diamond 1000~ Protoss last night and I changed up my game a couple times and still crushed him 4-0.

It may work, and it may not. I will still continue practicing other ideas just in case.

Also, it's not really silly that it won 3 times in a row. You can ask Ajax that he said he doesn't really know how to beat the build in the hands of a skilled player ( he actually said I was the best Terran he's ever fought, what a compliment







). I'm sure he is capable of beating it, but just like the pros it may take quite a few times losing to it over and over. Day9 tested how to stop an immortal rush with Terran in beta, and lost 16 straight before he started figuring it out. Learning isn't instant.

Did you watch them then?

Yeah, I watched all of them. There has to be way to deal with it or it would be imba and I have never seen terran using this build on the pro level. I think a standard 2 gate robo could work, because you can't get vikings fast enough against colossi. Also maybe 1 gate FE could work, because your attack comes late enough for economic advantage to kick in. In any case a good army control with nicely spread sentries to avoid EMPs and decent force fields are probably needed from protoss.

I'm looking forward to OCN tournament finals to see how Oktoberfest is going to deal with it.


----------



## KaiZ51

Hey guys, I finally received today my copy of SC2... And I'm about to register it on my Battle.net account.

Thing is, I created it a few years back, and was still a stupid kid back then, and for some reason decided to put "None" in the all the account information fields such as name, address, etc...

Do you think they could ban my account for this? I already have a few games there, and haven't had a problem up until today, but you never know... Just making sure.

I would change it, but unfortunately the Name field is greyed out so I'm out of luck...

P.S.: And the other games I have there are keys bought from G2Play/Offgamers too...


----------



## gerrardo

quick question, mostly because i saw a screen shot with it, but is it possible to stretch SC2 across multiple monitors? the advantages are there, i know that, but just curious. maybe even just for the campaign or custom games?


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gerrardo* 
quick question, mostly because i saw a screen shot with it, but is it possible to stretch SC2 across multiple monitors? the advantages are there, i know that, but just curious. maybe even just for the campaign or custom games?

Yeah, but the perspective change makes it look weird imo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yeah, I watched all of them. There has to be way to deal with it or it would be imba and I have never seen terran using this build on the pro level. I think a standard 2 gate robo could work, because you can't get vikings fast enough against colossi. Also maybe 1 gate FE could work, because your attack comes late enough for economic advantage to kick in. In any case a good army control with nicely spread sentries to avoid EMPs and decent force fields are probably needed from protoss.

I'm looking forward to OCN tournament finals to see how Oktoberfest is going to deal with it.


To beat it you probably need a FE, Colossus, or Templar yeah. I generally scan before I get my 2 ghosts out. If I see any evidence of a robobay I actually push before my ghosts already because I don't want them to get colossus, especially with thermal lance. Another option is kind of more creative gimmicky / trick kinda stuff that I think Protoss is pretty good at.


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
Hey guys, I finally received today my copy of SC2... And I'm about to register it on my Battle.net account.

Thing is, I created it a few years back, and was still a stupid kid back then, and for some reason decided to put "None" in the all the account information fields such as name, address, etc...

Do you think they could ban my account for this? I already have a few games there, and haven't had a problem up until today, but you never know... Just making sure.

I would change it, but unfortunately the Name field is greyed out so I'm out of luck...

P.S.: And the other games I have there are keys bought from G2Play/Offgamers too...

No one know anything about this?


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think you'll have a problem but idk?

You can always make a new account if you haven't registered it yet.


----------



## cory1234

Anyone know where to watch the latest gsl videos? I can't seem to find them anywhere.


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't think you'll have a problem but idk?

You can always make a new account if you haven't registered it yet.


I haven't registered it yet, but... I'd really like to have my games all in one account though...


----------



## Heret|c

I have a slight question for you guys in the diamond leagues:
are you old - timers type of gamers who plaid SC1 and Broodwars,
or are you simply extremely intelligent bandwagoners,
who started playing recently when the game became "the next big thing",
and have advanced thus far because of your extremely advanced brain
allows you to come up with new strategies to advance to diamond?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


I have a slight question for you guys in the diamond leagues:
are you old - timers type of gamers who plaid SC1 and Broodwars,
or are you simply extremely intelligent bandwagoners,
who started playing recently when the game became "the next big thing",
and have advanced thus far because of your extremely advanced brain
allows you to come up with new strategies to advance to diamond?


I'm a Starcraft 1 player, even before BW. I quit playing SC:BW probably around 2002 to play CS 1.0.

I even have a battle report from 2000!!!

http://www.battlereports.com/viewrep...reportnum=2809

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Anyone know where to watch the latest gsl videos? I can't seem to find them anywhere.


Same guy who I linked earlier is working on them, TLO will be up first. ( but since it was the last match of the day will contain spoilers for the other matches ).

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Anyone know where to watch the latest gsl videos? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

Best match of today:

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1114


----------



## Tchernobyl

You Tube  



 
 Interesting explanation of siege tank damage. That explains why zerg armies pop so easily~


----------



## thiru

Wow I didn't know the blast radius was that big...


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Wow I didn't know the blast radius was that big...


Pretty sure that's one of the things tomorrow's patch will nerf.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Yeah Siege Tanks are pretty OP.
I guess thats why they are changing (reducing?) the way they do damage in the 1.1 patch tomorrow.
There is nothing I hate more than forgetting to scout ahead, and having my 'lings run into the blast radius of a tank in siege mode...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Best match of today:

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1114


Wow that was awesome







. TLO is my favorite SC2 player.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule*


Pretty sure that's one of the things tomorrow's patch will nerf.


Yes but it won't affect splash radius.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Yeah Siege Tanks are pretty OP.
I guess thats why they are changing (reducing?) the way they do damage in the 1.1 patch tomorrow.
There is nothing I hate more than forgetting to scout ahead, and having my 'lings run into the blast radius of a tank in siege mode...


It's a pretty stupid change. TvZ will be almost the same, and tanks will now be even more of a joke TvP ( 5 shots to kill a zealot / speedlot ). There is a reason I never build tanks in that match up, and it's not because I like bio ( hate bio ).


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KaiZ51*


Hey guys, I finally received today my copy of SC2... And I'm about to register it on my Battle.net account.

Thing is, I created it a few years back, and was still a stupid kid back then, and for some reason decided to put "None" in the all the account information fields such as name, address, etc...

Do you think they could ban my account for this? I already have a few games there, and haven't had a problem up until today, but you never know... Just making sure.

I would change it, but unfortunately the Name field is greyed out so I'm out of luck...

P.S.: And the other games I have there are keys bought from G2Play/Offgamers too...


You should be able to change your contact information.. If you can't you might want to talk to Blizzard Customer service.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


I have a slight question for you guys in the diamond leagues:
are you old - timers type of gamers who plaid SC1 and Broodwars,
or are you simply extremely intelligent bandwagoners,
who started playing recently when the game became "the next big thing",
and have advanced thus far because of your extremely advanced brain
allows you to come up with new strategies to advance to diamond?


 I just decided I wanted to be good at it. I never played an RTS before. 
I was a CS:S competitive player, did a lot of bf2 and such. I've just never been bad at a game, I guess.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So they are making tanks even weaker now. 35 damage seems low and considering they had 65 to begin with.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


So they are making tanks even weaker now. 35 damage seems low and considering they had 65 to begin with.


35 damage, +15 to armored. So vs armored they are the same. Yeah in beta they had 60 damage ( when I played ) and they were considered bad back then. Amazing how times change. Probably why I'm against all these changes in the first place... lots of these "problems" will be worked out as new strats / counters develop.


----------



## Heret|c

Well it's not going to affect me I just build 3 barracks --> wep. upgrade, stim--->mass marines and marauders --- > crush the enemy. Works 90% of the time


----------



## justinguitar

Im a 900 rating diamond league zerg player, and i really dont think the zvt match up is at all inbalanced. Start off going zerglings (make roaches if you see repears/helions), and then progress to banelings/mutas. This general rule almost works vs every terran game, exceptions include tech builds (quick bc's and banshees) however there are counters for that as well. I started off playing toss, but after seeing the so little amount of zerg players in my 1v1 games i decided to start playing them. Most zergs that lose matches and say there race is imbalanced just dont realize how you have to continually pump drones, and not make a big army until you are going to attack, or if you see your opponent attacking. ANNNDDD there is the awesome, awesome late game by zerg. Its hard for terran to counter some ultas/brood lords.

All in all, i like this match up how it is, and it will be even easier come next patch when zerglings will do that much more work towards tanks.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Best match of today:

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1114


The nuke to prevent the Korean guy from attacking and defending his CC was genius.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule*


Pretty sure that's one of the things tomorrow's patch will nerf.


Not exactly. With the patch, it is simply the damage that is being reduced. So a 35 damage shot will still 1 shot a pack of zerglings that are that close to each other.

The range of the splash, especially the 100% splash, is being unaffected.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *justinguitar*


Im a 900 rating diamond league zerg player, and i really dont think the zvt match up is at all inbalanced. Start off going zerglings (make roaches if you see repears/helions), and then progress to banelings/mutas. This general rule almost works vs every terran game, exceptions include tech builds (quick bc's and banshees) however there are counters for that as well. I started off playing toss, but after seeing the so little amount of zerg players in my 1v1 games i decided to start playing them. Most zergs that lose matches and say there race is imbalanced just dont realize how you have to continually pump drones, and not make a big army until you are going to attack, or if you see your opponent attacking. ANNNDDD there is the awesome, awesome late game by zerg. Its hard for terran to counter some ultas/brood lords.

All in all, i like this match up how it is, and it will be even easier come next patch when zerglings will do that much more work towards tanks.


I like this guy. + Rep.


----------



## thiru

Anyone gonna watch the day9? he's gonna show replays of zergs playing without queens, which should be pretty funny and innovative


----------



## DoomDash

No queen play ftl. I like queens.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No queen play ftl. I like queens.


The no queen plays were pretty fun though.

Next week's funday monday is no expands until you get carriers. I just watched orb pull this off. The funny thing is that the other guy had watched day9 too so he went for the exact same thing, it was a carrier battle until orb used vortex on ALL the interceptors and cleaned up with his void rays.


----------



## ThumperSD

Blizzard should nerf the tank's damage radius instead of its direct damage


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Blizzard should nerf the tank's damage radius instead of its direct damage


Why not just remove them from the game? Look at the example video, those are some small squares. I mean you are pretty much asking for tanks with no balls, and that's just not Starcraft. Tank's aren't even that big of an issue.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *justinguitar*


Im a 900 rating diamond league zerg player, and i really dont think the zvt match up is at all inbalanced. Start off going zerglings (make roaches if you see repears/helions), and then progress to banelings/mutas. This general rule almost works vs every terran game, exceptions include tech builds (quick bc's and banshees) however there are counters for that as well. I started off playing toss, but after seeing the so little amount of zerg players in my 1v1 games i decided to start playing them. Most zergs that lose matches and say there race is imbalanced just dont realize how you have to continually pump drones, and not make a big army until you are going to attack, or if you see your opponent attacking. ANNNDDD there is the awesome, awesome late game by zerg. Its hard for terran to counter some ultas/brood lords.

All in all, i like this match up how it is, and it will be even easier come next patch when zerglings will do that much more work towards tanks.


I like him too. REP+. I thought Zerg was lacking because i didnt get into their late game. Time to start living up to this name again...At least when my computer gets here that is. I'm behind on my SC2.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *justinguitar*


Im a 900 rating diamond league zerg player, and i really dont think the zvt match up is at all inbalanced. Start off going zerglings (make roaches if you see repears/helions), and then progress to banelings/mutas. This general rule almost works vs every terran game, exceptions include tech builds (quick bc's and banshees) however there are counters for that as well. I started off playing toss, but after seeing the so little amount of zerg players in my 1v1 games i decided to start playing them. Most zergs that lose matches and say there race is imbalanced just dont realize how you have to continually pump drones, and not make a big army until you are going to attack, or if you see your opponent attacking. ANNNDDD there is the awesome, awesome late game by zerg. Its hard for terran to counter some ultas/brood lords.

All in all, i like this match up how it is, and it will be even easier come next patch when zerglings will do that much more work towards tanks.


hmm, while I agree that you should continually pump drones out, I think the idea of building a big army only when attacking is a bad idea. You are gonna need some defense in your base for obvious reasons and you can't build an army in time to stop an attack if the opponent's attack is a big one









Edit: Forgot to mention that if an opponent doesn't space his tanks out, all you need to do is get a couple of zerglings near the tanks and they are pretty much useless and will have to go back to being mobile to attack which means free hits and the possibility of destroying them before they get there


----------



## DoomDash

3D is just hours away !!!!!!!!


----------



## thiru




----------



## DoomDash

Yeah idrA is a dick. Hate that guy even if he reps the USA







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justinguitar* 
Im a 900 rating diamond league zerg player, and i really dont think the zvt match up is at all inbalanced. Start off going zerglings (make roaches if you see repears/helions), and then progress to banelings/mutas. This general rule almost works vs every terran game, exceptions include tech builds (quick bc's and banshees) however there are counters for that as well. I started off playing toss, but after seeing the so little amount of zerg players in my 1v1 games i decided to start playing them. Most zergs that lose matches and say there race is imbalanced just dont realize how you have to continually pump drones, and not make a big army until you are going to attack, or if you see your opponent attacking. ANNNDDD there is the awesome, awesome late game by zerg. Its hard for terran to counter some ultas/brood lords.

All in all, i like this match up how it is, and it will be even easier come next patch when zerglings will do that much more work towards tanks.




















Pump drones, of course







They must have not realized it!


----------



## Nevaziah

JustinGuitar is right. Sometimes I start making units cause im parranoid they will attack but I just realized with zerg its all about map control. UNLESS you are pumping out units to go DO something specific (harras, prevent expo, explore), then there is no point to making them.

I dont think i have EVER actually saturated my main when I play zerg







. My expos are always saturated but in the beginings I only make attack units and forget to saturate my main first. I only have about 900 points (ranked 12 in my plat division ) but the first thing I had to (still working on it actually) get used to is massign drones before the queen spawns.

I tried Doomdash`s 14 pool and it works great on the economy. I wouldnt recommend it against another zerg (especially if they know you are zerg from the get-go) cause I did a 10 pool against another zerg and i swear, if he hadnt seen me coming with the lings cause of his overlord, i woulda taken him out earlier. (he just built 4 spine crawlers ) and i just expanded while patrolling his expo to prevent him from moving out or expanding himself. He had to push out with roaches but by then my advantage was considerable.

Most of the games I won as zerg went like this: mass lings or roaches attack. Win. Or if he pushes the attack back, camp at the expo while expanding or keep exploring and moving units around him to make him nervous. Take control of the map with creep tumors or multiple expos.. etc... If you can keep a terran or protoss, heck even another zerg boxed in , its almost always a guaranteed win when you take advantage of it and expand. Often times they will try to tech up to get the counter unit for whatever you have camped out there, so a good composition will finish em midgame.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 



















Had my first two league games yesterday. Interesting enough, they were both against protoss, however, I was surprised by the speed of the game. In practice matches, it's faster, but, I think it's fastest in this case, so, I find it difficult to understand why speed is toned down in practice matches. I lost the first due to speed, since, I didn't realize how easy it is to build an army with that speed but won the second through the usage of mutalisks, hitting the probes and destroying his main. The guy in my second match planned to use cheese since he slipped a probe into my base at the start, but, I was able to attack it with a drone and eventually destroyed it with not much loss on my end







What I found interesting is the amount of games he has played and his record.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Idra is practically the definition of a lifeless over-aggressive nerd.

I bet his room looks just like these sorts of ones you see in these joke pics.

Honestly... Bad sportsmanship in any activity is a bad characteristic to have.


----------



## poroboszcz

Official 1.1.0 patch notes:

Quote:

Balance Changes

PROTOSS
Zealot
Build time increased from 33 to 38.
Warp Gate cooldown increased from 23 to 28.

TERRAN
Battlecruiser
Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8.
Bunker
Build time increased from 30 to 35.
Reaper
Build time increased from 40 to 45.
Siege Tank
Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored).

ZERG
Ultralisk
Ram ability removed. Ultralisk will now use normal attack against buildings.
Damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).

Maps
Desert Oasis
Destructible Rocks have been added to make natural expansions easier to protect.
Center Xel'Naga Tower area has been narrowed.
Source.

Nothing unexpected.


----------



## puzzledazn

I like it... no more proxy pylon up your butt as fast....


----------



## DoomDash

dito w/ reaper proxies w/ bunkers.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Is this some kind of sick joke? I just got a patch, but it was to update me to 1.0.3.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
dito w/ reaper proxies w/ bunkers.

Really tho. Protoss got nerfed the worst by far. 6/7 pools are going to be more effective vs protoss now. Warpgate time increased by 5 seconds? That effects the entire core unit range for protoss. I think Terran is going to dominate for a while.

Come on blizzard. Still no feature to watch replays together? No clan support. These features should have been out at launch, at least the replays definitely.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Really tho. Protoss got nerfed the worst by far. 6/7 pools are going to be more effective vs protoss now. Warpgate time increased by 5 seconds? That effects the entire core unit range for protoss. I think Terran is going to dominate for a while.

Come on blizzard. Still no feature to watch replays together? No clan support. These features should have been out at launch, at least the replays definitely.

Now there will be no question that you'll do 10/11 gate, and chrono your zealot. I do see this causing some problems vs Z.

TvP will be pretty similar.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule* 
Is this some kind of sick joke? I just got a patch, but it was to update me to 1.0.3.









This always happens. The latest patch notes generally don't show up while patching.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Really tho. Protoss got nerfed the worst by far. 6/7 pools are going to be more effective vs protoss now. Warpgate time increased by 5 seconds? That effects the entire core unit range for protoss. I think Terran is going to dominate for a while.
.

On the other hand this should fix PvP a lot. Maybe you'll be able to hold off 2 gate with 1 gate core now. 4 gate won't be as powerful and no more korean warp gates cheese. All good. Maybe this will change openings a bit and you'll be able to support one more gate off one base. And 6 pool isn't that much of a problem anyway. You're 1st zealot will get delayed by 5 seconds which doesn't make a huge difference. At the same time a 5 zealots attack on zerg will get delayed by 15 seconds which is more significant.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Now there will be no question that you'll do 10/11 gate, and chrono your zealot. I do see this causing some problems vs Z.

I think 10/11 gate hits protoss' economy almost as much as it hits zerg's. Plus all of your zealots will get delayed so it doesn't really matter, because you'll get 5-7 zealots out pretty much at the same time you'd get them with 12/14 gate before, but with much worse economy. I foresee a cannon contain getting more popular though.

Quote:

A new game clock has been added. Players can now instantly see how long they've been in their current mission or match. This feature can be turned on or off in the Gameplay Options menu.
This is interesting as well. Will definitely help "noobs" like me with timings and scouting.


----------



## DoomDash

A clock is good for everyone IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
A clock is good for everyone IMO.

Might be, but, it feels like they simplify the game a bit since you can keep track of time and how long to build d which removes the timing aspect that you would get used to if you use the same build


----------



## puzzledazn

Speaking of starcraft makes me want to play right now...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Might be, but, it feels like they simplify the game a bit since you can keep track of time and how long to build d which removes the timing aspect that you would get used to if you use the same build









I mean, how hard is it to get a clock that shows up while the game is running, or a RL clock. It just makes everyone have a sense of time, and I can only see the community getting better because of it.


----------



## puzzledazn

You know what the "133t" players will say... Only noobs need this clock...


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Finally a clock! I've always wanted one. Back in August I scoured the hotkeys list looking for a clock but couldn't find one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I mean, how hard is it to get a clock that shows up while the game is running, or a RL clock. It just makes everyone have a sense of time, and I can only see the community getting better because of it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Finally a clock! I've always wanted one. Back in August I scoured the hotkeys list looking for a clock but couldn't find one.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
You know what the "133t" players will say... Only noobs need this clock...

My thoughts alike, however, it's not because you are a noob if you use the clock. If you do indeed believe that you can have a build order down well and have your timings down, you don't need a clock. In a sense, it removes the timing aspect of the game because you would check it to see how far you've went into the game and know the time to push out some specific units. Personally, I wouldn't be using it as I see no need for it, since, I don't have a solid build and mostly have a starting point for my games


----------



## puzzledazn

Well said BigFan...

As for the people who wants to play... add me: [email protected]


----------



## DoomDash

Lots of new cooler looking icons for Terran so far.


----------



## Wishmaker

Is the patch worth it?


----------



## DoomDash

What do you mean?


----------



## Heret|c

Did they add the keyboard shortcut costomization feature, so I can costomize all my shortcuts to re - bind them to mouse buttons?

Clock is definitely a plus in my book, I was just wondering how much time it takes to wall off with barracks and supply depo compared to 6 pool to avoid getting rushed, but was too lazy to actually take a clock and look at it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Is the patch worth it?


If you want to be able to play the game, yeah, it's worth it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you want to be able to play the game, yeah, it's worth it.


lol, no other way to say it


----------



## elson

mine says Updating @ 0% then it just closes :S


----------



## jrgull13

they changed some of the protoss icons too. The ones I know about anyways are charge/blink


----------



## thiagocosta85

YAY !!!...
The cheaters will have a hard time finding a new way to maphack !!!

The old maphack below (FOW OFFSET + CMD):

00A5C6D9 8A1D 0C2D5A01 MOV BL,BYTE PTR DS:[15A2D0C] ;MAPHACK
00A5C6DF 3A1D 8A917B01 CMP BL,BYTE PTR DS:[17B918A] ;MAPHACK

Has changed...
I hope it takes 4 ever for them to find a new way.

Thumbs Up Blizzard =D

EDIT ....

Mineral Hack also changed offset. (zerg exploit)


----------



## Heret|c

OMG the patch for tri - moniter no longer works .....


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure if this is listed but: I noticed when you are building anything with Terran now, in the final second of building its considered complete, even if it looks like its still building. The best test of this is on a barracks or something, you can que up a marine now before the building is done building.


----------



## DoomDash

hit 900 diamond. 1000 by the end of the week I must







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


hit 900 diamond. 1000 by the end of the week I must







.


no way noob, your tanks and reapers were nerfed, can't touch my zeal-wait... crap.


----------



## DoomDash

OMG worst bug ever!!!

  
 You Tube


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG worst bug ever!!!


Okay, at first I thought you were joking because those are some really ugly Zerg bug-like creatures.

But...it looks like the radius damage from their pincers are waaay too much?


----------



## cory1234

Haven't beat a terran since patch. Guess it's time to jump on the Terran bandwagon. I was ~1100 and now I'm only alittle over 1000 haha. I have to build 2 additional gateways to keep up with production.


----------



## DoomDash

rofl yes. patch already needed, lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG worst bug ever!!!

[urSl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0zB9_ePmI&feature=player_embedded[/url]


LOL I read it was ridiculous but MAN that's OP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Haven't beat a terran since patch. Guess it's time to jump on the Terran bandwagon. I was ~1100 and now I'm only alittle over 1000 haha. I have to build 2 additional gateways to keep up with production.


Weak. No respect for bandwagon jumpers sorry. Stick with your favorite, and when the dust settles you'll be better for it.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG worst bug ever!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0zB...layer_embedded


Wow lol.

Seems they kind of coded it so the blade swipe acts as if there's no building there, and the space is negated.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Weak. No respect for bandwagon jumpers sorry. Stick with your favorite, and when the dust settles you'll be better for it.


Zerg is my favorite, but I haven't been serious with zerg since the roach nerf.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Zerg is my favorite, but I haven't been serious with zerg since the roach nerf.


Well get back to it. You'd be cooler for it too cause no one plays them these days. Don't worry about things like balance and just do your best and you'll get so sick most balance issues will no longer be an issue. You aren't doing this to make money so get out there, play your favorite race, and have fun.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Zerg is my favorite, but I haven't been serious with zerg since the roach nerf.


So you relied heavily upon an OP unit and now suffer, gj


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule*


Okay, at first I thought you were joking because those are some really ugly Zerg bug-like creatures.

But...it looks like the radius damage from their pincers are waaay too much?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dom_sufc*


Wow lol.

Seems they kind of coded it so the blade swipe acts as if there's no building there, and the space is negated.


Prepatch, the normal attack was splash damage with 2 something radius centered on the target. Every zerg thought the patch was going to be a nerf because 2 radius centered on on the center of a barracks or command center isn't going to kill the SCVs repairing it, and big/ram attack is better than fast/normal attacks for taking out a building.

But now it looks like the splash damage is 2, OUTSIDE the command center, which is simply insane. They should have done splash damage centered on the point of impact, not center of target.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG worst bug ever!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0zB...layer_embedded


i see no bug, this is perfectly normal!

>_>

<_<


----------



## jrgull13

Well the way it's programmed it's normal. Lol, yea they need to fix that







I can see a hotfix tomorrow morning.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah that's probably the worst bug I can remember. Maybe the vortex + ff "abuse" can compare, but its not really a bug.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah that's probably the worst bug I can remember. Maybe the vortex + ff "abuse" can compare, but its not really a bug.


Lol you mean put forcefields around a vortex as it fades? that must be funny. Not as awesome as putting archons in the vortex or psy storming the ball though


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *thiru*   Lol you mean put forcefields around a vortex as it fades? that must be funny. Not as awesome as putting archons in the vortex or psy storming the ball though







  
You must not have seen what I'm talking about:

  
 You Tube  



 
 patched of course.


----------



## elson

Any1 having problems patching? I start and the downloader just closes


----------



## Heret|c

O well, at least in single moniter mode I'm getting 90fps maxed, cos my eyes were getting tired of 30 fps.

I'm just going to continue to use terrans and lay waste to any1 who will step in my path!
Unless it's a good terran lol. Thankfully there have been a lot of bad terrans lately, some noob was using his piddly little reapers on me in TvT! What a complete waste of time, I already had 6 banshees that completely obliterated his base!

Zerg is just a race for masochists who derive pleasure from getting pwned repeatedly.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You must not have seen what I'm talking about:

[ursl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C_rK5sCmR4[/url]

patched of course.


Wow that's wayyy more effective than I thought.

As far as I know, vortex'ing an army and throwing your archons and/or psi storming it still works, but it's nowhere near as effective...


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You must not have seen what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C_rK5sCmR4

patched of course.


this isn't showing up for me.. anyone else?


----------



## thiru

Click on the link in the quote.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


O well, at least in single moniter mode I'm getting 90fps maxed, cos my eyes were getting tired of 30 fps.

I'm just going to continue to use terrans and lay waste to any1 who will step in my path!
Unless it's a good terran lol. Thankfully there have been a lot of bad terrans lately, some noob was using his piddly little reapers on me in TvT! What a complete waste of time, I already had 6 banshees that completely obliterated his base!

Zerg is just a race for masochists who derive pleasure from getting pwned repeatedly.


I'm terrible at the game, and have through about switching to Zerg since I'll have to learn to play anyways. But so far, Zerg makes little sense to me. Way more micro management than I can currently handle.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Click on the link in the quote.


Nvm, Firefox is being stupid with me right now, I'll just check it in the morning.


----------



## DoomDash

another example

  
 You Tube  



 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980105

That sure doesn't sound like tomorrow... because it frickin should be.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Guys I'm sorry...

Blizzard got rap ed again :'( ... No security increase, Maphack is working again.

00A67FC1 |. 8BEC MOV EBP,ESP
00A67FC3 |. 83EC 10 SUB ESP,10
00A67FC6 |. 833D 78768201 >CMP DWORD PTR DS:[1827678],0
00A67FCD |. C705 74F67D01 >MOV DWORD PTR DS:[17DF674],1
00A67FD7 |. 0F84 E3010000 JE SC2.00A681C0
00A67FDD |. A1 1092BF01 MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[1BF9210]
00A67FE2 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
00A67FE4 |. 74 15 JE SHORT SC2.00A67FFB
00A67FE6 |. 68 00010000 PUSH 100 ; /Arg2 = 00000100
00A67FEB |. 68 D87A8301 PUSH SC2.01837AD8 ; |Arg1 = 01837AD8
00A67FF0 |. 8D88 B80C0000 LEA ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+CB8] ; |
00A67FF6 |. E8 855B2100 CALL SC2.00C7DB80 ; \\SC2.00C7DB80
00A67FFB |> 833D 14167D01 >CMP DWORD PTR DS:[17D1614],0
00A68002 |. 53 PUSH EBX
00A68003 |. 0F85 88000000 JNZ SC2.00A68091
00A68009 |. 8A1D CC995C01 MOV BL,BYTE PTR DS:[15C99CC]
00A6800F |. 3A1D 6AF67D01 CMP BL,BYTE PTR DS:[17DF66A]
00A68015 |. 885D FB MOV BYTE PTR SS:[EBP-5],BL
00A68018 |. 75 23 JNZ SHORT SC2.00A6803D
00A6801A |. 8B45 FB MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[EBP-5]
00A6801D |. 50 PUSH EAX ; /Arg1
00A6801E |. B9 10D82F02 MOV ECX,SC2.022FD810 ; |
00A68023 |. E8 880B3100 CALL SC2.00D78BB0 ; \\SC2.00D78BB0


----------



## DoomDash

They should ban soon though. It might work but can be detected.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
They should ban soon though. It might work but can be detected.

I hope so too man....

But... It is not detected :'( ...

; Maphack state.
mState db 00h

; Maphack hooks.
hook_Maphack_01 dd 00A68009h
hook_Maphack_02 dd 00A6800Fh

; Maphack data.
h01_Shared db 0B3h, 02h, 90h, 90h, 90h, 90h
h01_Enemy db 0B3h, 03h, 90h, 90h, 90h, 90h
h01_Reset db 8Ah, 1Dh, 0Ch, 2Dh, 5Ah, 01h
h02_Full db 0EBh, 09h
h02_Reset db 3Ah, 1Dh

We have to combat this....
We should unite and make a detector. because when the Map Hack is activated, the other client(victim) will sence the presence of your (hacker) unit.

----------- EDIT 2 ---------------

Guys, We really need to make a Detector, I will give you a currently working (main.asm) which will be enough for a detector.... You guys want to help?

.486
.model flat, stdcall
option casemap: none

include \\masm32\\include\\windows.inc
include \\masm32\\include\\masm32.inc
include \\masm32\\include\\user32.inc
include \\masm32\\include\\kernel32.inc
include \\masm32\\include\\gdi32.inc
include \\masm32\\include\\debug.inc
includelib \\masm32\\lib\\masm32.lib
includelib \\masm32\\lib\\user32.lib
includelib \\masm32\\lib\\kernel32.lib
includelib \\masm32\\lib\\gdi32.lib
includelib \\masm32\\lib\\debug.lib

include Tools.inc
include Game.inc

thread_Hotkeys proto







WORD,







WORD,







WORD
thread_Callback proto







WORD,







WORD,







WORD
thread_Hook proto

.data

szWindow db "StarCraft II", 0

.data?

thread_HookID dd ?
thread_HotkeysID dd ?

.code

DllEntryPoint proc hInstDLL







WORD, lpReason







WORD, lpReserved







WORD
; This code is executed when our DLL is loaded.

mov eax, lpReason
.if (eax == DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH)

; Check that the game version is correct.
mov eax, hook_Maphack_01
mov al, byte ptr [eax]
mov bl, byte ptr [h01_Reset]
.if (al != bl)
ret
.endif

; Set up the hooking thread.
invoke CreateThread, NULL, 0, addr thread_Hook, 0, 0, addr thread_HookID

.endif
ret

DllEntryPoint endp

thread_Hotkeys proc nCode







WORD, wParam







WORD, lParam







WORD
; Hotkey callback thread.

push eax
mov eax, lParam
or eax, 00FFFFFFh
.if (nCode == HC_ACTION && eax != 0C0FFFFFFh)

.if (wParam == VK_F5)

.if (mState == 00h)

; Change to full mode.
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_01, addr h01_Reset, 6
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_02, addr h02_Full, 2
mov mState, 01h

.elseif (mState == 01h)

; Change to shared vision mode.
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_01, addr h01_Shared, 6
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_02, addr h02_Reset, 2
mov mState, 02h

.elseif (mState == 02h)

; Change to enemy vision mode.
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_01, addr h01_Enemy, 6
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_02, addr h02_Reset, 2
mov mState, 03h

.elseif (mState == 03h)

; Turn off the maphack.
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_01, addr h01_Reset, 6
invoke Tools_PatchMemory, hook_Maphack_02, addr h02_Reset, 2
mov mState, 00h

.endif

.endif

.endif
pop eax
invoke CallNextHookEx, thread_HotkeysID, nCode, wParam, lParam
ret

thread_Hotkeys endp

thread_Hook proc
; Hook setting thread.

; Show the ad.
invoke MessageBox, NULL, CTEXT("CLOSE THIS WINDOW FIRST--Press F5 to activate after closing this window, Created by thiago --/nwww.overclock.net/"), CTEXT("CLOSE THIS WINDOW TO ACTIVATE"), MB_OK

; Get the device context.
invoke Tools_GetDeviceContext, addr szWindow

; Get the process ID.
invoke FindWindow, 0, addr szWindow
.if (eax == 0)
invoke FindWindow, addr szWindow, 0 ;korean/taiwan client fix
.endif
invoke GetWindowThreadProcessId, eax, 0

.if (eax != 0)

; Set the hotkey hook.
invoke SetWindowsHookEx, WH_KEYBOARD, addr thread_Hotkeys, NULL, eax

; Save our thread handle and sleep.
mov thread_HotkeysID, eax
invoke Sleep, -1

.endif

thread_Hook endp

End DllEntryPoint

Lets kill the hackers, there are toomany Crystal Players that are really Silver players... and only because they can see you at all times.


----------



## DoomDash

lol @ the Zergs on battle.net and TL who think this is fine. I mean I understand they are bitter, but they aren't stupid are they?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
lol @ the Zergs on battle.net and TL who think this is fine. I mean I understand they are bitter, but they aren't stupid are they?

Their arguments are hilarious. "it doesn't make sense that units on the other side of a PF get destroyed by ultras" reply: "well it's the pieces of the PF falling over and killing them".

Seriously? I don't care how butt hurt zergs are, this is OP.


----------



## DoomDash

There is no way you can rationally come up with a reason this should work / is good for the game.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Guys check this video out....
On the first 2 hours of work (analysing new patch for fragile offsets) Instead of making the enemy visible look what I did, lol...

You will see my PROBES ATTACKING THE AIR !... well an INVISIBLE nexus... and 8 invisible probes=D

Funny !

Sorry about the low FPS, but I couldn't afford Olly DBG to crash.


You Tube


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
There is no way you can rationally come up with a reason this should work / is good for the game.


It just means that until the fix, Zerg is even more deadly late game :/


----------



## DoomDash

1 PF mining base vs 1 Ultralisk : SCV's abandon base or death to all of them and the PF lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Guys check this video out....
On the first 2 hours of work (analysing new patch for fragile offsets) Instead of making the enemy visible look what I did, lol...

You will see my PROBES ATTACKING THE AIR !... well an INVISIBLE nexus... and 8 invisible probes=D

Funny !

Sorry about the low FPS, but I couldn't afford Olly DBG to crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxQTG_6pboM

-=My Favorite Hacking Visual=- IMMORTAL WARPING / Carrier Warping !!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzBmj9p0UCM

You should submit your findings to Blizzard, it doesn't look like anyone here knows as much as you do...

BTW Newbie Tuesday on day9's daily today, watch it!


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You should submit your findings to Blizzard, it doesn't look like anyone here knows as much as you do...

BTW Newbie Tuesday on day9's daily today, watch it!

I did man... I sent all the sources I have to blizzard... ... I sent over 19 dangerous offsets...

I sent:

Map hack
Mineral Hack
Any Unit Warp
Drop Hack
Probe spawn with out spawn gate
More than 3 probes/csv/drone on any gaiser
Probe dont need to reach nexus to deliver mins/gas
infinite chrono boost
Infinity Any energy
Campaing hack (Finish All Brutal Hack)
All Achievements Hack
Crystal Hack
No Win hack
No Loose Hack

All of the above working ONLINE !!!
... It is too easy to manipulate...

After the new patch I got stuck for a minute.... But it is all the same :'( ... Only new ofsets/adresses ...

I think I will start playing sc1 again untill they add a crc check or gameguard...

By the way, I sent them a xincode example to fix the problem...

No action taken yet...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 

BTW Newbie Tuesday on day9's daily today, watch it!

It was canceled FYI.

I'm uploading a video of the utlra doing this with just 1 ultra vs a PF. 1 Ultra will not take out a PF by itself if you repair it, but it will take out all SCV's trying to repair it and most of the health of the PF. ( in unit tester )


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It was canceled FYI.

I'm uploading a video of the utlra doing this with just 1 ultra vs a PF. 1 Ultra will not take out a PF by itself if you repair it, but it will take out all SCV's trying to repair it and most of the health of the PF. ( in unit tester )

It was delayed, it's running right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Oh thanks for the tip. Not that I care about newbie tuesday







.


----------



## DoomDash

I thought this was pretty funny ( In response to a guy saying "Now Protoss needs a way to deal with PF's ):

Quote:

You're right. Protoss has no method.

We need to think about balance changes or new units.

Perhaps some kind of ray.

Perhaps it would be flying as well, so as to negate the possibility of it dying to the PF.

Perhaps it could be related to voids, for some reason, to stay within the current protoss theme.

While we're on the subject, how about some kind of powerful ground unit. Maybe it would be able to walk over walls and have 9 range with. . . let's say a 200/200 upgrade. And maybe it could even be provided with some sort of linear splash damage to destroy repairing SCVs.

Now if only protoss had such devices...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't understand those videos. What kind of hacks are you guys talking about? And what's PF?


----------



## DoomDash

Planetary Fortress of course.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I don't understand those videos. What kind of hacks are you guys talking about? And what's PF?

Planetary Fortress.

And that dude is an idiot. Just ignore him.

Now, if people would stop quoting him...


----------



## deanlewandowski

Ultralisk splash damage is waaay too OP. Its funny.
(and I play Zerg as main race)
People QQ'ing is hilarious. This is still patch 1.1 Im sure lots of stuff will get changed.
(still kind of weird they let that get through testing. Maybe added at the last second?)


----------



## DoomDash

Blizzard letting something this common get through is just pathetic. Sad really.


----------



## Tchernobyl

argh, nope. 1v1 is still just as infuriating post patch.

I know part of it is my fault though. I never feel like i *can* respond to whatever terran/toss build, even if I build the units I know should counter them >.<


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Blizzard letting something this common get through is just pathetic. Sad really.

Did you not ever play WOW? LOL
Blizzard is the best/ worst company I've ever dealt with.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Did you not ever play WOW? LOL
Blizzard is the best/ worst company I've ever dealt with.

Nope, refused on that one.


----------



## DoomDash

I made this, nothing new but shows how even 1 ultra is crazy now( in HD







):


You Tube


----------



## thiagocosta85

...
Not only Map Hack... but
Mineral Hack works still.

I got a headache...
Im going to sleep... Any 1 here play sc1? ...


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Good thing they can just lift off then :/

Well a PF can't but still.


----------



## DoomDash

Random player ( David Kim from Blizzard ) is #2 in ladder, almost #1... wow.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what's this offset mineral hacks you guys are talkign about? How do you spot it?

How long are your games usually? I haven't played vs zerg that got to ultras.

huk from US different from huk from EU?


----------



## DoomDash

same person.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
same person.

Yup. If you want to be pro you need to play on all of the servers. Hopefully more non Korean pros decide to play in the GSL.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
...
Not only Map Hack... but
Mineral Hack works still.

What's mineral hack? I have once been accused of using one after winning 1vs2, after my team mate dropped, but never knew one existed. Shouldn't this be like 100% detectable and easy to spot?


----------



## deanlewandowski

I NEED HELP!

I play Zerg in Bronze league and thought the changes in 1.1 would help me.
I STILL SUCK!

I'll upload two replays and PLEASE any Zerg players let me know *** Im doing wrong.
I watch videos, strategies etc and can't seem to get any better.
I'm on tilt right now and about to quit if I can't see some sort of improvement its that bad LOL.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


I NEED HELP!

I play Zerg in Bronze league and thought the changes in 1.1 would help me.
I STILL SUCK!

I'll upload two replays and PLEASE any Zerg players let me know *** Im doing wrong.
I watch videos, strategies etc and can't seem to get any better.
I'm on tilt right now and about to quit if I can't see some sort of improvement its that bad LOL.






I'm watching the first game now, and I see your first mistake.

You did not rally your hatchery to the mineral line. If you don't do so then you have to add even more micro and risk having workers not work at all.

Secondly, you have WAY too much money. If you're Zerg and have 500+ minerals, throw down another expo, or something. That much money is ridiculous.

Im typing this as I watch, so my timing might be weird, but you REALLY need to work on using rally points. You've had a worker idle now at your hatch for some time, and that's no good.

The reason you're losing is three things.

Idle workers.

Not spending enough. Never, EVER have more then 200 minerals unless you're saving up for an expo, higher tier unit, or an expensive building.

And you need to scout more. WAY more. You did ok at first, and then you didn't scout again. That is the most important thing you can do.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


What's mineral hack? I have once been accused of using one after winning 1vs2, after my team mate dropped, but never knew one existed. Shouldn't this be like 100% detectable and easy to spot?


Mineral hack works since sc1, and has not been patched since 2003. (sc1)
in Sc2, it works as well...

The reason why it is not detected, is because not all values of the minerals are server sided. so with a few changes in the memory (dll injection) and a little help of our friend (WEP PRO), we can do mineral hack by filtering network packets.

It only works because LAG does exist. so you emulate lag, and bimgo...
I was only able to make it work with ZERG in both SC and SC2, by programming the LAVA to give any amount less than 500 upon cancelation... Example:

CLick on lava, Make Drone, Cancel Drone...

On the cancel, instead of getting 50 mins back, you get 425 back. It is detectable by the other client, but blizzard does not monitor any game sessions at REAL TIME, because that would be too expansive since they would need EXTRA EXTRA more bandwidth.

But yeah... I hate cheaters. I only do it to make sure I can make it work, but I don't use it I promisse







.


----------



## justinguitar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


I NEED HELP!

I play Zerg in Bronze league and thought the changes in 1.1 would help me.
I STILL SUCK!

I'll upload two replays and PLEASE any Zerg players let me know *** Im doing wrong.
I watch videos, strategies etc and can't seem to get any better.
I'm on tilt right now and about to quit if I can't see some sort of improvement its that bad LOL.






I watched the second game, I would start by revising your strat vs protoss. Get 14 food make an extractor, then spawning, then drones for a while. Get speedling upgrade when spawning pool is finished. Mass lings, and eventually hyrdas (mass hyrdas counter alot of protoss units, espically the gateway units). If you get to late game get either ultras of brood lords depending on the sitution. Also put lings along the map, to detect the enemy charging your base when he leaves his base (not when hes already at your expo). Set rally points for your hatchery, you had too many idle drones.

I watched the games quickly, just a few little things i picked up on and thought id suggest.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


no way noob, your tanks and reapers were nerfed, can't touch my zeal-wait... crap.


lol, true indeed









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG worst bug ever!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0zB...layer_embedded


That's hilarious. While I do think this is OP and should be changed, it'll be fun to have Terrans afraid of Zerg for a change. Having said that, I think they were trying to make it so that any SCVs repairing the building are harmed due to the fact that technically speaking IRL, if you are repair a building, you can't repair it from one side and not get harmed if it's being attacked by the other. I haven't used the editor yet to try and see the magnitude of this though so it's mostly from what I've seen. Have to make sure to play some matches tonight before they release a patch to nerf it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


another example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6sBD...layer_embedded

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980105

That sure doesn't sound like tomorrow... because it frickin should be.


Take it easy, they recognized the problem and are busy implementing a fix. How it passed QA I don't know, but, from their reply, it doesn't sound like they didn't expect this to happen.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


It just means that until the fix, Zerg is even more deadly late game :/


Will make for more interesting games. Means that T and P will have to stop Z early to mid game otherwise they risk everything if the Z uses Ultralisks









Played my last 3 matches yesterday, won 2(P and T) and lost one(Z), so, I'm in Silver now. Can't wait to win some more and move up


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think you should watch psystarcraft or HD on youtube. Psy shows his zerg games exclusively and HD post his zerg tutorials from time to time and love to post zerg vs other races.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


You did not rally your hatchery to the mineral line. If you don't do so then you have to add even more micro and risk having workers not work at all.


If I do this, I won't have to worry about assigning the drones to a specific mineral node?
I think that having 3 workers per node is optimal, correct?
Will setting workers to rally to the mineral line assign the correct number of workers per node, or is this something that has to be done manually?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


If I do this, I won't have to worry about assigning the drones to a specific mineral node?
I think that having 3 workers per node is optimal, correct?
Will setting workers to rally to the mineral line assign the correct number of workers per node, or is this something that has to be done manually?


Unless I'm mistaken, whenever I've done this, once you have 3 drones per mineral line, they automatically move to the nearest one on their own, so, no manual work needed


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, true indeed









Will make for more interesting games. Means that T and P will have to stop Z early to mid game otherwise they risk everything if the Z uses Ultralisks









Played my last 3 matches yesterday, won 2(P and T) and lost one(Z), so, I'm in Silver now. Can't wait to win some more and move up










Won't be hard with terran bio ball in early. Or mass reaper into maurader.


----------



## cory1234

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/gomcam/1117

Pro gamer Clide moving into round of 16 saying terran has an advantage on both zerg and protoss.

Imo the patch puts protoss in last now. At least until they fix those ultras







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Won't be hard with terran bio ball in early. Or mass reaper into maurader.


If you don't micro well, then yes. Zerglings with queen and colonies are great against reapers. Against bioballs, it's a combination of units. Infestors with fungal parasite along with mutalisks(since marauders can't attack air) and speedlings would do well against bioballs. It's also about microing. One of my recent games was against a terran who massed marines with stim and hellions with their flame upgrade near my base. True, not a bioball and can't recall him having any medivacs or medics. I found out about it once I started to scout more and started building zerglings and preparing defense for the inevitable attack. I also started building some mutalisks since I had a spire by then. He destroyed my expansion, queen, 6 drones and about 10 mutalisks or so and got to my main base, however, I was able to use my queen and remaining forces and some colonies to to withstand the rest of his attack. I ended up winning the game after I prevented him from expanding with zerglings and harassed his scv's with mutalisks. Point is, had he built some air attacks to counter my mutalisks early one or some medics, he would have stood a better chance. Tanks would have also gone a long way against my colonies, even if it was one tank. I should note that he did build vikings later on but it was too late by then, since, I had 3 hatcheries all with queens and around 8 larvas each, so, I had the money to pump out mutalisks







. In the end, it's people playing the game, so, continually scouting and preparing/building counters as well as experience is what will help you win









Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/gomcam/1117

Pro gamer Clide moving into round of 16 saying terran has an advantage on both zerg and protoss.


The more games I play, the more I think that if protoss or zerg learn to teach up rather quickly, then they will be able to withstand bio balls. Vikings are stronger than mutalisks and banshee's can be devastating to ground units, but, mutalisks in large groups can stall an enemy's economy and give a zerg the upper hand mid-game. They are also faster in speed which means that you could harass different bases with the same pack. Likewise, if you use zealots with some void rays, you could use the zealots to do some initial damage and then by the time they die assuming that they weren't strong enough, your void rays would've been fully charged to clean up the rest. Of course, a smart player would move his units back at this point to prevent them from wiping him force and only reattach once they are back to step 1(normal attack) so that they don't bare the force of a fully charged void ray


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/gomcam/1117

Pro gamer Clide moving into round of 16 saying terran has an advantage on both zerg and protoss.

Imo the patch puts protoss in last now. At least until they fix those ultras







.


Yeah but most of the top players in the GSL feel Protoss is top. You'll have some mixed feelings in there as well.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Dear Linux Users
Starcraft II works with WINE =D

I will try it on Gutsy 7.10 32bits/ Then the 64 Bits version.
Worked on Karmic Kaola(9.10) 32 Bits.










http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/201...with-wine.html

--THE LINE BELOW WAS A COPY AND PASTE-- 
Make sure you install wine first. =D

cd ~/Downloads
wget http://winezeug.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/winetricks
chmod +x winetricks
./winetricks droid fontfix fontsmooth-rgb gdiplus gecko
./winetricks vcrun2008 vcrun2005 allfonts d3dx9 win7
winecfg

In the configuration Window it opens go to the libraries tab and enter mmdevapi in the new override for library box and click add. Now scroll through the existing over rides list for mmdevapi click edit and set it to disabled. Finally click on the audio tab and set it to alsa.


----------



## deanlewandowski

What kind of FPS are you getting in Wine and what were you getting using Windows?
Is this running on your sig rig, and if not, what are the specs of the machine?


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


What kind of FPS are you getting in Wine and what were you getting using Windows?
Is this running on your sig rig, and if not, what are the specs of the machine?


I tested that on a different computer, my work computer (im at work atm)

Specs

4 gb ddr3
Phenom II x4 925 C2 chicp @ 2.8Ghz
NV 9500 GT

I dont know yet, I will press Alt + F and it should tell me, then I will post the FPS here.

--EDIT-- I just got home and realized I forgot to provide this info... I will do it tomorrow.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Unless I'm mistaken, whenever I've done this, once you have 3 drones per mineral line, they automatically move to the nearest one on their own, so, no manual work needed










they move before then, even. If there's a worker currently on a node mining, it just moves to a different one, same as the original SC, except now they mine incredibly faster so 3 to a node actually works, but they will bounce around on their own to mine continuously.
EDIT:

However, in Orig SC (atleast when I quit playing) you couldn't rally your workers to mine.. they just moved by the node and picked their nose.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jrgull13*


they move before then, even. If there's a worker currently on a node mining, it just moves to a different one, same as the original SC, except now they mine incredibly faster so 3 to a node actually works, but they will bounce around on their own to mine continuously.
EDIT:

However, in Orig SC (atleast when I quit playing) you couldn't rally your workers to mine.. *they just moved by the node and picked their nose*.


:laspler: But yes, I like the new feature that you could rally them. Means you can concentrate more on the battlefield and scouting instead of having to do to your base to assign your workers. True, their mining is much faster as well


----------



## ReaperMan

Okay, so I'm launching my SC2, and the patch says finished at 0%, so my client isn't downloading the patch.. And then my client just shuts off.. Anybody know what I can do to fix this? Like is there a place where I can manually download the patch from blizz's website.


----------



## DoomDash

Visit tech support on blizzard forums.


----------



## ReaperMan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Visit tech support on blizzard forums.


Why would I post here if I could just go on the tech support forums and find it.. Do you not think that I've done that already....


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Take it easy there pal. Do you not think that we'd tell you if we know already...

restart comp, restart game, use updater.exe, use Repair.exe, if that fail reinstall game?


----------



## deanlewandowski

Okay I need some SERIOUS help here.
Im going to upload a replay here
I have 4 bases going, tons of zerglings/ banelings
like 7 Ultralisks
10+ Mutalisks

I've got my opponent contained to 2 bases.
He rolls out of his base with upgraded Thors and Seige tanks and crushes me like its nothing.
The Ultralisks barely get a hit off.

What am I doing wrong here?
I thought the idea was to contain your opponent.
And I thought that Ultralisks would have lasted more than 2 seconds...


----------



## poroboszcz

Love the patch. I haven't lost a single game since it's been released. Not that I see a big difference, but had a really good day







Seems like there's less cheese from protoss. Also new Desert Oasis is pretty good.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Okay I need some SERIOUS help here.
Im going to upload a replay here
I have 4 bases going, tons of zerglings/ banelings
like 7 Ultralisks
10+ Mutalisks

I've got my opponent contained to 2 bases.
He rolls out of his base with upgraded Thors and Seige tanks and crushes me like its nothing.
The Ultralisks barely get a hit off.

What am I doing wrong here?
I thought the idea was to contain your opponent.
And I thought that Ultralisks would have lasted more than 2 seconds...




A) You have a horrible horrible problem spending your money. I mean, very bad. Sitting on anything more than 300 minerals is just bad... and you had over 3000 many many times. Even near 2000 gas a times. That's awful, especially when you have 100 supply of room to build more units.

B) You didn't transfer / aka maynard any of your drones to your new expo. Why have all those drones being inefficient at your base when you have a good expo up with NOTHING mining. That's very bad as well

C) You expanded way too late each time in my opinion. I told you I always do 14 pool / 15 hatch. Zerg needs a better economy to compete.

D) Too many queens. I saw 2 per hatch a few times when you already had AA like muta's.

E) Not enough poking around his base with mutas. I also didn't see any real good scouting or use over overseers?

F) Awful spine crawler placement.

Mainly the lack of spending, lack of drone transfer, and slow expanding. If a Terran is turtling he is basically giving you the entire map.

and that Terran sucked. Look how late his orbital command came lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Love the patch. I haven't lost a single game since it's been released. Not that I see a big difference, but had a really good day







Seems like there's less cheese from protoss. Also new Desert Oasis is pretty good.


I haven't either as Terran. 78 more points to 1000.

*Edit* I take that back, I lost 2.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Okay I need some SERIOUS help here.
Im going to upload a replay here
I have 4 bases going, tons of zerglings/ banelings
like 7 Ultralisks
10+ Mutalisks

I've got my opponent contained to 2 bases.
He rolls out of his base with upgraded Thors and Seige tanks and crushes me like its nothing.
The Ultralisks barely get a hit off.

What am I doing wrong here?
I thought the idea was to contain your opponent.
And I thought that Ultralisks would have lasted more than 2 seconds...




I'll check your replay but from your words I think first, your unit is too cute. You want to have a few unit types but lots of it and the ability to remake it (queens at work all the time) in an instant. For example, a good way to counter those units are burrowed roaches, and brood lords. You're at tier 3 and spires so should've gone that route. Tanks counter your lings and banelings some and thors can take on mutas too. If you spread your mutas before you go into battle and fly on top, then press H to hold them there they don't bunch up to take splash damage.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'll check your replay but from your words I think first, your unit is too cute. You want to have a few unit types but lots of it and the ability to remake it (queens at work all the time) in an instant. For example, a good way to counter those units are burrowed roaches, and brood lords. You're at tier 3 and spires so should've gone that route. Tanks counter your lings and banelings some and thors can take on mutas too. If you spread your mutas before you go into battle and fly on top, then press H to hold them there they don't bunch up to take splash damage.


He had like 3000-1600 when the Terran attacked, with probably 100 food supply of room to build units. It's pretty obvious why he lost







. Think about that spent in Ultra's....!!!!!


----------



## thiagocosta85

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=139082

This tool is pretty cool...

You can download ANY language SC2 client, example,
if you would like to hear all the sounds in german, korean, spanish, portuguese ETC,...

If you try to login with a foreign client, it will not allow you to, you have to relocate the client to your CD-KEY server.

With this tool, it does it for you... It worked for the PTBR version of the client...

But what I really want is download the Korean Client... I want to hear the korean voices / sounds effecs =D

Any one know where to find the korean client? I couldn't find it (blizzard won't allow us ip's from downloadning ANY foreign client (unless proxy).

I hope you guys find a use for that tool...

Have fun.

OHHH CRAP... Imagine playing this game in RUSSIAN? damn ! .... Russian language sounds mad nice.

---EDIT---
Ohhhhh no, the new patch won't allow me to use the PTBR client anymore...
I guess it needs to be edited for each patch...

Shame on blizzard, what's wrong with us using a different language client naturaly with out the need of a HACK? ...

each time I hear the name Blizzard, it makes me not wanna play sc2... doesn't make any sence but it is frustrating.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You can use gas steal in the terran base for early harass

You built in base hatch that wasn't justified. You would've fast expanded and made the same number of units but had much higher income.

You didn't scout at all. You need an overseer, to detect if they go banshee and to produce transforming scout.

You had mutas in mid game, you didn't use its mobility to your advantage. if expo is defended with thors and turrets start sniping other targets out somewhere else. Have constant harass going.

Your zerglings didn't go for the back rocks at all. If you open that back door early you can do two/three pronged harass that terrans can't handle.

Keep up in your macro, in droning up and uping tech. You upgraded zerglin attack and defense but not your mutas which was your primary attack force.

You're third expansion was in the wrong spot. You had map control, you should go for the gold expo.

You built static defenses that wasn't needed at the time or positioned right. For example if a hellian rushed your drone lines all three spines won't reach.

Where were the infestors that you were going to build? You can at least fungal or control

In the end he countered your army.


You Tube


----------



## thiagocosta85

I like that ZERG tutorial ALOT ! =D

THx mate


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Okay I need some SERIOUS help here.
Im going to upload a replay here
I have 4 bases going, tons of zerglings/ banelings
like 7 Ultralisks
10+ Mutalisks

I've got my opponent contained to 2 bases.
He rolls out of his base with upgraded Thors and Seige tanks and crushes me like its nothing.
The Ultralisks barely get a hit off.

What am I doing wrong here?
I thought the idea was to contain your opponent.
And I thought that Ultralisks would have lasted more than 2 seconds...



Dude, pay attention to this Zerg stream. It's one of the only Zerg streams I like as much as I like Trump (A top diamond terran player)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Xizorhalfwingseen


----------



## DoomDash

I've been doing marine thor in TvT recently and it's been working pretty well!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Okay I need some SERIOUS help here.
Im going to upload a replay here
I have 4 bases going, tons of zerglings/ banelings
like 7 Ultralisks
10+ Mutalisks

I've got my opponent contained to 2 bases.
He rolls out of his base with upgraded Thors and Seige tanks and crushes me like its nothing.
The Ultralisks barely get a hit off.

What am I doing wrong here?
I thought the idea was to contain your opponent.
And I thought that Ultralisks would have lasted more than 2 seconds...




Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
He had like 3000-1600 when the Terran attacked, with probably 100 food supply of room to build units. It's pretty obvious why he lost







. Think about that spent in Ultra's....!!!!!

I haven't watched your replay yet, however, based on his army, I can tell you the following:
Seige tanks easily crush zerglings/banelings especially when they are grouped together. Ultra while powerful will lose versus large numbers of Seige tanks and thor for some backup. Also, mutas are easily disposed of by Thors. Based on the comment above, I take it you didn't spend all your minerals and gas. Those 1600 would have made you 16 mutalisks which you could have used to harass his base(scv to stall his economy, etc....). One other point, make sure to expand. I know you mentioned 4 of them, but, you should really expand early(someone mentioned that you didn't). My advice is to do it as far away from your base as possible, somewhere where they wouldn't suspect and won't check early on in the game. You could put some colonies for some quick d since they are pretty cheap









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've been doing marine thor in TvT recently and it's been working pretty well!

No, just no, lol, it actually works pretty well especially if you throw in a couple of marauders and a medivac or two for some healing. I was crushed by thors in my games today and the sad part was that in one of the games, I had him contained to one base and since his MMM ball wasn't working, he had to resort to them. Unfortunately, since mutalisks cluster together and I wanted to separate them but was too late in the heat of battle, they were annihilated. I have yet to try ultralisks in my games


----------



## DoomDash

Well I do a marine thor timing push kind of thing. I get 2 thors, 1 reactor worth of marines, and push while expanding.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well I do a marine thor timing push kind of thing. I get 2 thors, 1 reactor worth of marines, and push while expanding.

Don't forget those scvs to repair the all mighty thor







.

1111 points in 1v1 haha. Passed 1200 in 2s random







even with an ally dropping the one game I played today.

@deanlewandowski: Didn't watch the replay either but a 200 army terran will decimate a 200 army zerg; especially a mech heavy one. You want to finish the game before terran reaches 200 supply or do some harass via muta/nydus.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Don't forget those scvs to repair the all mighty thor







.

1111 points in 1v1 haha. Passed 1200 in 2s random







even with an ally dropping the one game I played today.

@deanlewandowski: Didn't watch the replay either but a 200 army terran will decimate a 200 army zerg; especially a mech heavy one. You want to finish the game before terran reaches 200 supply or do some harass via muta/nydus.

I'll catch you in 1v1 soon enough







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 

@deanlewandowski: Didn't watch the replay either but a 200 army terran will decimate a 200 army zerg; especially a mech heavy one. You want to finish the game before terran reaches 200 supply or do some harass via muta/nydus.

Actually I just watched CheckPrime's round of 32 match ( GSL ) and on metal he fought a 200/200 Z army vs 200/200 T army. T army was made up of MMM, Thor, and tanks. Z army had 40+ banelings, speedlings, muta, and some roaches. Check slaughtered the T army lol. Banelings even taking out 4+ thors lol!


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
If I do this, I won't have to worry about assigning the drones to a specific mineral node?
I think that having 3 workers per node is optimal, correct?
Will setting workers to rally to the mineral line assign the correct number of workers per node, or is this something that has to be done manually?

They will automatically find the most "optimal" mineral node.

For example, if you put 30 workers on one node, they all split up evenly on other nodes.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Thx for the help all!

I like the idea of a fast expansion (I think it was at 21 supply)
But in Bronze, a LOT of the time I'm facing an early Marine/ Zealot rush.
Early expansion is going to leave you more vulnerable to an early rush, so obviously your scouting must be much better. (Which I definitely need work on.)

Is there any other tips you guys can give on dealing with a fast rush?
(Spine crawler placement, or anything else you can think of...)
Because there is a pretty good chance that wile I'm spending 300 minerals on a Hatchery, my opponent is spending that on troops that he will be sending into my base within the first couple minutes.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I mean, why did you have 3 spine crawlers hugging the side of your nat? They would have been much better off either in a line next to each other, or protecting all sides of your mineral line.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311* 
They will automatically find the most "optimal" mineral node.

For example, if you put 30 workers on one node, they all split up evenly on other nodes.

That is true but in the beginning of the game, I like to select three drones to mine on the left side and select the other three to mine on the right side.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll catch you in 1v1 soon enough







.

Actually I just watched CheckPrime's round of 32 match ( GSL ) and on metal he fought a 200/200 Z army vs 200/200 T army. T army was made up of MMM, Thor, and tanks. Z army had 40+ banelings, speedlings, muta, and some roaches. Check slaughtered the T army lol. Banelings even taking out 4+ thors lol!

That sounds interesting. Roaches are pretty strong especially when upgraded. I mean 16 damage to start, that's pretty high. That sounds like an interesting match









Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Thx for the help all!

I like the idea of a fast expansion (I think it was at 21 supply)
But in Bronze, a LOT of the time I'm facing an early Marine/ Zealot rush.
Early expansion is going to leave you more vulnerable to an early rush, so obviously your scouting must be much better. (Which I definitely need work on.)

Is there any other tips you guys can give on dealing with a fast rush?
(Spine crawler placement, or anything else you can think of...)
Because there is a pretty good chance that wile I'm spending 300 minerals on a Hatchery, my opponent is spending that on troops that he will be sending into my base within the first couple minutes.

I see your concern. I've tried expanding early on to get more gas but I always find that if the enemy is Terran and they were all today, they usually speed their money on some upgrades and more units. I mean 300 minerals along with the drones, extractor, etc.... all cost minerals. In one of my games, my expansion was destroyed a little after I had it set up and if I didn't have some colonies and micro my units, I would have lost the entire game. Lucky for me, he had no marauders or medics, only marines+stim and hellions+flame upgrade. I think if you are able to expand early on, go for it, but, you are taking a risk, so, make some d first and then make an exp away from base. As for the spine crawlers, I usually place mine near my cc


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah when I was coming up I had a lot of early proxy games or rush games. Annoying as heck.

I thought it might end and turn into macro games like ones shown on youtube in plat. Hell no. I get timing attacked so much lol. If terran wana 3-4 marauder me right after slow is done I'm toast. No matter how many zeal or stalks I get out in 1v1 small maps Terran will always out macro with their high income and easy micro with marauders.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
yeah when I was coming up I had a lot of early proxy games or rush games. Annoying as heck.

I thought it might end and turn into macro games like ones shown on youtube in plat. Hell no. I get timing attacked so much lol. If terran wana 3-4 marauder me right after slow is done I'm toast. No matter how many zeal or stalks I get out in 1v1 small maps Terran will always out macro with their high income and easy micro with marauders.

sorry, after slow is done? I didn't get what you said there. However, I agree with everything else. Most of the games I played against Terran, I build drones till 10, make Overload, pool followed by more drones. Once pool is finished, make queen, more drones, then build some extractors, 2 spine crawlers and a structure or two. From there, I try to upgrade to lair, get some mutalisks and of course try to build some d in the meantime. Having said that, I do try to expand around the time of upgrading to lair but with the amount of minerals gone to that and to everything else, I find that my opponent is usually coming with marines and marauders, sometimes upgraded with stim, shells, etc... other times mostly the units with a medivacs, changes depending on opponent. Either way, it seems too fast, but, maybe it's just me


----------



## deanlewandowski

It seems like in Bronze you have a lot of the players rushing before they expand to a second base.
The times I scout this and defend successfully, I win almost 100% of the time.
As long as I can keep the second base from getting destroyed, I'm way ahead in resources.

I'm guessing that's why you see higher level players getting a second/ third expansion so fast.
Well, the good players are able to manage multiple expansions while poking with early troops at the same time, if they feel like it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That's the issue though, unless zerg fast expand and drone hard, terrans will always have more income in both gas and minerals than both protoss and zerg in early game. Then they just pump out 3 marauders with 1 marine with concussive shells done in early research and go super early push. It's super effective vs protoss. Its a lil different vs zerg but its dependent on what the zerg is doing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
sorry, after slow is done? I didn't get what you said there. However, I agree with everything else. Most of the games I played against Terran, I build drones till 10, make Overload, pool followed by more drones. Once pool is finished, make queen, more drones, then build some extractors, 2 spine crawlers and a structure or two. From there, I try to upgrade to lair, get some mutalisks and of course try to build some d in the meantime. Having said that, I do try to expand around the time of upgrading to lair but with the amount of minerals gone to that and to everything else, I find that my opponent is usually coming with marines and marauders, sometimes upgraded with stim, shells, etc... other times mostly the units with a medivacs, changes depending on opponent. Either way, it seems too fast, but, maybe it's just me









By slow I mean concussive shells.


----------



## DoomDash

Terran will crush Protoss and Zerg till the end of time! Terran pride!


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
No matter how many zeal or stalks I get out in 1v1 small maps Terran will always out macro with their high income and easy micro with marauders.

Sounds like you're not building enough Sentries. A couple of well-placed force fields at your ramp/choke can either split his force in half to allow you to pick them off or give you an extra 15-30 seconds to boost out some defense. Any time you can get him to Stim and then get blocked or cut in half by a force field is a small victory for you.

Until you get leg speed your Zealots are going to need those Sentries to do any decent amount of damage without getting kited to death.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

There are a few maps that sentries don't work due to the size of the choke, and the timing of the attack.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
It seems like in Bronze you have a lot of the players rushing before they expand to a second base.
The times I scout this and defend successfully, I win almost 100% of the time.
As long as I can keep the second base from getting destroyed, I'm way ahead in resources.

I'm guessing that's why you see higher level players getting a second/ third expansion so fast.
Well, the good players are able to manage multiple expansions while poking with early troops at the same time, if they feel like it.

Yes, if you keep, then you'll be ahead by a long shot which is the reason I recommended you build it further away from your base since the majority of your opponents won't be scouting for your exp that early in the game and it means more gas as well. Well, you can still poke with early troops and get a second/third exp, it's all about timing it. You could make some stalkers or reapers and then blink/jump over cliff, do some damage and then run away. You could build some zerglings and run around his base to near his SCV/probes/drones, do some damage and run out, mostly to keep some pressure. One of my opponents today did a cheese move, he was playing zerg like me and he circled around my base before building an extractor. I was building a queen at that time and build some zerglings to try and deal with this but then he just cancelled the build and tried to run again but I got him. Either way, my point is that took me off key for a bit at the start. Afterwards, he attacked with 2 zerglings and then 13 zerglings and destroyed my exp near my base since it was undefended and my hatchery hasn't finished yet. I was able to hold on in the game and it went back and forth for a while. He kept sending in roaches and zerglings and my counter was zerglings all the time. I was able to withstand his attacks and build 2 more exps and started building mutalisks right after he did. However, his zerglings+roach and mutalisks+corruptor combos proved a little too much as my main base ran out of minerals and I couldn't move my drones to the other bases which weren't defended at the time. I lost the game and the major reason was that I didn't exp early enough(he only had one exp near his base) and his constant harasement meant that I was busy defending instead of attacking. I found out that he was a gold player with something like 200 or so games under his belt and was the top 5 or so in his league with a 1000+ point which made it a bit odd since I've only played <10 game and I'm in silver









Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Sounds like you're not building enough Sentries. A couple of well-placed force fields at your ramp/choke can either split his force in half to allow you to pick them off or give you an extra 15-30 seconds to boost out some defense. Any time you can get him to Stim and then get blocked or cut in half by a force field is a small victory for you.

Until you get leg speed your Zealots are going to need those Sentries to do any decent amount of damage without getting kited to death.

Good point, I always see the terran kited, what are you referring to?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Terran will crush Protoss and Zerg till the end of time! Terran pride!









GET HIM







My zerg will CRUSH your PRIDE









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
That's the issue though, unless zerg fast expand and drone hard, terrans will always have more income in both gas and minerals than both protoss and zerg in early game. Then they just pump out 3 marauders with 1 marine with concussive shells done in early research and go super early push. It's super effective vs protoss. Its a lil different vs zerg but its dependent on what the zerg is doing.

By slow I mean concussive shells.

Actually, it's rather effective since the shells slow down zerglings enough for marines to mop up, however, most opponents would build a lot more than 4 units to attack because they would be picked off easily by zerglings surrounding them


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
GET HIM







My zerg will CRUSH your PRIDE









Is that a challenge?


----------



## DoomDash

Wow!
http://kotaku.com/5645570/lego-thor-is-here/gallery/


----------



## Fourman

That is impressive work on the LEGO Thor.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll catch you in 1v1 soon enough







.

Actually I just watched CheckPrime's round of 32 match ( GSL ) and on metal he fought a 200/200 Z army vs 200/200 T army. T army was made up of MMM, Thor, and tanks. Z army had 40+ banelings, speedlings, muta, and some roaches. Check slaughtered the T army lol. Banelings even taking out 4+ thors lol!

The same rules don't apply when were talking about Check







. I hope he wins the tournament. Him or Tester.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Is that a challenge?









Yes, it is and you are going down. In all seriousness, I'm interested to see where I stack up against a diamond player. Should be fun







Just give me a couple of days, some work to do first and also some sc2 practice


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


The same rules don't apply when were talking about Check







. I hope he wins the tournament. Him or Tester.


In regards to doom dash 200 zvt

on HD's channel there was a fight like that with cellawerra and cella the zerg just got pummeled.


----------



## DoomDash

Do you mean ZvT ? Cause I saw that one. Not enough banelings







.


----------



## poroboszcz

I've got question for people playing 2v2s. Do you use some 2v2 specific strategies, timing attacks or unit compositions or do you just play like you normally would in 1v1? I'm mainly asking about arranged teams.


----------



## DoomDash

2v2 is ******ed IMO. There is a little thought process but not much. I prefer 1v1 as its on a whole different level.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I've got question for people playing 2v2s. Do you use some 2v2 specific strategies, timing attacks or unit compositions or do you just play like you normally would in 1v1? I'm mainly asking about arranged teams.


I love 2v2. I always talk to my partner and coordinate attacks. IMO, the team battles are much more fun than the 1v1.


----------



## jrgull13

2v2 can be fun if you aren't 2 protoss vs terran and x all the time who mass marauders while his partner gets anti-air. I'm still kind of a newb to the game but dying to the same thing all the time gets really old


----------



## BigFan

Never played a single 2vs2 so far. Unless they are someone I know IRL or at least talked to before like on these forums, it would be very difficult to communicate attacks.


----------



## poroboszcz

I often play team games with my house mates they're far from decent though so it's just for fun. Also have a pretty solid team with a diamond terran, but the way we play is more like 2 simultaneous 1v1s so that's why I asked how others do it.

And now from the recent news about imba, one of top korean Zerg players, Fruitseller aka Cool expressed his opinion about current balance of the game:

Quote:

Topic: To hell if I play zerg in GSL2 (swears)

(...)

Fruitseller's reply on bottom:
All I can get is 10% win ratio with zerg in practice. (swears) This is a crapload of garbage.

Fruitseller's 2nd reply:
What am I supposed to do when they use 3 dropships and expand all over the map.
What am I suppose to stop the dropships with Blizzard?
If I maintain my muta number, I can't win.
(swear, swear, swear)

Fruitseller's 3rd reply:
Really.. I feel like throwing away my keyboard and mouse and whatever out the window.
(swears)

Ogs.Zenio's replies:
There's no answer to zerg right now..
It's past the point of overcoming through practice.
Surprisingly reaper nerf didn't fix all the issues.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I often play team games with my house mates they're far from decent though so it's just for fun. Also have a pretty solid team with a diamond terran, but the way we play is more like 2 simultaneous 1v1s so that's why I asked how others do it.

And now from the recent news about imba, one of top korean Zerg players, Fruitseller aka Cool expressed his opinion about current balance of the game:

Surprisingly reaper nerf didn't fix all the issues.

I don't know if those complaints are justified. I mean lets get realistic here and realize that medivacs will probably never change... and Zerg has the best drops in the game. He probably just got pissed having a bad day. I see top players do it all the time.


----------



## ThumperSD

Team games are much more fun than 1v1 IMO but 1v1 just tests your own individual skills. I choose having fun any day. Easy choice for me. Have to play with people I know of course... hate being stuck with random noobs.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I've got question for people playing 2v2s. Do you use some 2v2 specific strategies, timing attacks or unit compositions or do you just play like you normally would in 1v1? I'm mainly asking about arranged teams.

In 2v2(or any other team game), it's always good to put pressure early from my experience. Usually a timing attack by you and your partner is the best way to go. If it doesnt work out, quickly throw an expo.

You have to becareful of timing attacks and rushes more in team games than 1v1 since you will be attacked by several opponents. I usually make more units than focus on econ in team games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Team games are much more fun than 1v1 IMO but 1v1 just tests your own individual skills. I choose having fun any day. Easy choice for me. Have to play with people I know of course... hate being stuck with random noobs.

I have fun crushing people and knowing it was all my doing.

You guys like some strange un-rewarding crap IMO hah. Just my opinion. Team games are about as meaningless as all hell. If I wanted to play meaningless games I'd playing a completely different game probably on the Wii.


----------



## burwij

IdrA just posted some comments about the patch, full text here:
http://www.myeg.net/article/article_...article_id=877


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I have fun crushing people and knowing it was all my doing.

You guys like some strange un-rewarding crap IMO hah. Just my opinion. Team games are about as meaningless as all hell. If I wanted to play meaningless games I'd playing a completely different game probably on the Wii.

Team games MAY be meaningless but games are made to be fun right? I just want to have fun. And how can you possibly compare a 2v2 game to a Wii game? lol dont hate

I LOVE playing 2v2/3v3/4v4 with friends I know.. playing with friends makes the game more enjoyable IMO


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Team games MAY be meaningless but games are made to be fun right? I just want to have fun. And how can you possibly compare a 2v2 game to a Wii game? lol dont hate

I LOVE playing 2v2/3v3/4v4 with friends I know.. playing with friends makes the game more enjoyable IMO

All my friends play SCII, but most of them avoid it because they are scared to lose. 2v2 is like an escape from actually learning to play the real game ( 1v1 ). 2v2+ is to me, one step above a custom game player. Again, I have fun crushing people. I love competition. If I have a rival, and he beats me, I'll start practicing even harder.

A good example is my friend who taught me Starcraft 1 original when it came out in 1998. I got crushed by him for 1 / 1.5 years before I got my own computer / internet connection. What did I do? I practiced in clan ~nohunters, and clan x17. He was still playing pub games back then. Guess what? I never lost to him again, and I'm talking 1999~2000 till now. Even in SCII I haven't let him touch me.

THAT is fun. **** this 2v2 boring bs. I man up and play 1v1. At least that's how I feel... I can't speak for everyone.

One of my friends lets losing bother him so much he doesn't even play the game. How ****ing pathetic is that? He watches more SCII vods and live streams than anyone I know too.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
All my friends play SCII, but most of them avoid it because they are scared to lose. 2v2 is like an escape from actually learning to play the real game ( 1v1 ). 2v2+ is to me, one step above a custom game player. Again, I have fun crushing people. I love competition. If I have a rival, and he beats me, I'll start practicing even harder.

A good example is my friend who taught me Starcraft 1 original when it came out in 1998. I got crushed by him for 1 / 1.5 years before I got my own computer / internet connection. What did I do? I practiced in clan ~nohunters, and clan x17. He was still playing pub games back then. Guess what? I never lost to him again, and I'm talking 1999~2000 till now. Even in SCII I haven't let him touch me.

THAT is fun. **** this 2v2 boring bs. I man up and play 1v1. At least that's how I feel... I can't speak for everyone.

One of my friends lets losing bother him so much he doesn't even play the game. How ****ing pathetic is that? He watches more SCII vods and live streams than anyone I know too.

No doubt but you have to realize that not everyone plays SC2 competitively. Some people just simply play for for having fun. That is the point im trying to make. Im not saying that 2v2 skills mean more than 1v1 skills. Im simply saying that team games are more fun than 1v1 games to me. I hope you understand the point im trying to make now.

Having fun > 1v1 points any day for me. Easy choice.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I admit that I often tend to only see things my way. I won't rain on your parade.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah I admit that I often tend to only see things my way. I won't rain on your parade.

To each their own


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*I have fun crushing people and knowing it was all my doing.*

You guys like some strange un-rewarding crap IMO hah. Just my opinion. Team games are about as meaningless as all hell. If I wanted to play meaningless games I'd playing a completely different game probably on the Wii.

That is one thing I like about 1vs1 games, because, if I win, I know that it was me who did the work and won, not my teammate. Either way, I think 2vs2 would be fun if I played it with friends, unfortunately, not many IRL play it ATM, only one that I know of and even then, he hasn't played online yet and I doubt he has finished the campaign. I think I would enjoy it as much if I played 2vs2 with one of you guys


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
IdrA just posted some comments about the patch, full text here:
http://www.myeg.net/article/article_...article_id=877


He's def gota a point.


----------



## DoomDash

I agree with idrA for once. Patch was crap.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I dont know were i sow it but did Thor get a new skin?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
I dont know were i sow it but did Thor get a new skin?

CE thor looks different / awesome. So pissed because I put my CE account as my secondary account ( gfs / guests ), so my all Terran account doesn't get the thor. WEAK!!!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah I admit that I often tend to only see things my way. I won't rain on your parade.

"often"?

Understatement of the decade~


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
CE thor looks different / awesome. So pissed because I put my CE account as my secondary account ( gfs / guests ), so my all Terran account doesn't get the thor. WEAK!!!

What do you mean CE Thor? Also whats this secondary account i dont know about lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
"often"?

Understatement of the decade~

At least I can admit it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
What do you mean CE Thor? Also whats this secondary account i dont know about lol.


Collectors Edition has a cooler looking Thor. I have 2 SCII accounts. I reserved CE at GameStop in the mall, but it wasn't a midnight launch location. I couldn't wait 10 hours so I bought two. I use the second one for my second computer in my house ( which my girlfriend uses ), or if friends come over / want to play. I even lend it out to a oc.net member who uses it to play on US servers.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
At least I can admit it.

Collectors Edition has a cooler looking Thor. I have 2 SCII accounts. I reserved CE at GameStop in the mall, but it wasn't a midnight launch location. I couldn't wait 10 hours so I bought two. I use the second one for my second computer in my house ( which my girlfriend uses ), or if friends come over / want to play. I even lend it out to a Overclock.net member who uses it to play on US servers.

Dam i want CE now. Been playing with Thor for some games now and most people dont know how to counter them and i get easy wins, I had in this game 3 thor + 5 scvs and this guy had like 35 marines and killed them all.


----------



## deanlewandowski

I think that there are some things you might be able to learn from team games, even with casual players.
There is always the possibility that, through talking to teammates etc, you may learn some of the psychological reasons that people make certain choices, see new play-styles etc.
I think that there is always some information that can be gathered from any time spent playing.

I would love to play some 2v2 games etc with some peeps for fun, but don't know anyone to make teams with!
If anyone wants to practice with a Bronze level Zerg player who is watching videos, streams and strategies in an attempt to get better, please hit me up!
I'm East Coast USA, have Vent, etc!


----------



## DoomDash

Probably another reason I hate team games is because 99.9% of the time my allies are worse than me lol. Generally a lot worse too. Even all my buddies.


----------



## Twistacles

I like team games when I want to unwind from the really stressful ladder, and practice my macro or off-races. (Toss 1v1, Random anything else)


----------



## Tchernobyl

My problem with team games is the non zerg mentality.

"OH HAI I'LL DO MY NORMAL THING AND WALL IN, WHILE AMASSING A FORCE... WAIT *** WHY IS MY ZERG ALLY DEAD, LET ME SEND MY UNITS FAR TOO LATE"

grr >









Quote:

At least i can admit it
True~










CE thor. star on top, has wings at the back~


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
True~

Plus it helps always being right




























.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
At least I can admit it.

Collectors Edition has a cooler looking Thor. I have 2 SCII accounts. I reserved CE at GameStop in the mall, but it wasn't a midnight launch location. I couldn't wait 10 hours so I bought two. I use the second one for my second computer in my house ( which my girlfriend uses ), or if friends come over / want to play. I even lend it out to a Overclock.net member who uses it to play on US servers.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Plus it helps always being right




























.

and there he goes again!


----------



## beers

Wow, I was just SCV rushed by like 3 people in a row...
..They all died and rage quit...
..one guy landed his base next to me and started building a planetary fortress and died...

/facepalm..


----------



## DoomDash

I posted on battle.net pretty much begging for Blizzard to switch my account CD keys







.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
My problem with team games is the non zerg mentality.

"OH HAI I'LL DO MY NORMAL THING AND WALL IN, WHILE AMASSING A FORCE... WAIT *** WHY IS MY ZERG ALLY DEAD, LET ME SEND MY UNITS FAR TOO LATE"

grr >









True~










CE thor. star on top, has wings at the back~

Looks more like a Pirate Viking lol.


----------



## BigFan

Anyone up for a game of sc2?


----------



## deanlewandowski

Always up for a game if Im on!
US servers, "Massiv" #955
Bronze league "Shelak Quest"

Can someone explain, or point me to a good article on what it takes to advance into a better league?
The tips I've gotten here have made me a MUCH better player the last couple days and I'd like to set getting into Silver as my goal.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Always up for a game if Im on!
US servers, "Massiv" 955
Bronze league

Can someone explain, or point me to a good article on what it takes to advance into a better league?
The tips I've gotten here have made me a MUCH better player the last couple days and I'd like to set getting into Silver as my goal.

I can't refer to a specific article, however, they do have a system in place. I think it's based on points as well as wins and losses. Personally, just aim for a lot of wins but accept the losses as they come and fix your build to account for your mistakes when you lost









Wanted to add, if anyone ever wants a game: BigFan 707 for name/id









Edit: Is Shelak Quest name of map or channel, since, I don't see any channels like in sc1?
Edit2:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beers* 
Wow, I was just SCV rushed by like 3 people in a row...
..They all died and rage quit...
..one guy landed his base next to me and started building a planetary fortress and died...

/facepalm..

Wanted to mention that is pretty hilarious actually


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

Edit: Is Shelak Quest name of map or channel, since, I don't see any channels

It's his division.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's his division.

Yes, I just realized that and was planning to write a message







Up for a game?


----------



## deanlewandowski

Do any of the Zerg players here use the cancel extractor trick to get an extra drone at the start?
Do you do this every time, or does it depend on the build you are going for?

(If anyone doesnt know what Im talking about,
when you reach 10/10 supply, some people send a Drone to build an extractor over the Vespeyne geyser.
They start training a Drone, then cancel the extractor build.
This leaves you with 11/10 supply for a short time.)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Do any of the Zerg players here use the cancel extractor trick to get an extra drone at the start?
Do you do this every time, or does it depend on the build you are going for?

(If anyone doesnt know what Im talking about,
when you reach 10/10 supply, some people send a Drone to build an extractor over the Vespeyne geyser.
They start training a Drone, then cancel the extractor build.
This leaves you with 11/10 supply for a short time.)

Never tried that before. I don't exactly have a build, I just build drones till 10, build overload, pool, more drones, queen and then randomly from there, although, I do try to expand a bit and build some defense incase of early push by opponent


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes, I just realized that and was planning to write a message







Up for a game?









Sure. I'm on.


----------



## jbrown




----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sure. I'm on.

How do we join a game then? TBH, no clue on my part







Am I supposed to make a custom game or is there some other way to do it?


----------



## jbrown

Anyone play the new Phantom minimap/custom game? It's a blast...

It's a FFA with 8 people, one person is a phantom who gets extra money and extra supply limit, but they are trying to not give it away and kill everyone before they do. A game of deception.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbrown* 
Anyone play the new Phantom minimap/custom game? It's a blast...

It's a FFA with 8 people, one person is a phantom who gets extra money and extra supply limit, but they are trying to not give it away and kill everyone before they do. A game of deception.

That does sound like a blast. I haven't played any custom games, mostly a couple of league ones but I'll have to check that out sometime, +REP


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
That does sound like a blast. I haven't played any custom games, mostly a couple of league ones but I'll have to check that out sometime, +REP









I added you just stay on this time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I added you just stay on this time.

ok, going into game now


----------



## DoomDash

117 apm last game with a bunch of typing ( 25 minute game ). Why is my Z APM so damn high compared to my T?!!??


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
117 apm last game with a bunch of typing ( 25 minute game ). Why is my Z APM so damn high compared to my T?!!??

I'd be more surprised if your Z apm wasn't higher

Zerg has more stuff to do all around (which is part of why it is harder to learn. Queens laying eggs constantly, expanding quickly and on time, harassing w/ mutas early and often. . .)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
117 apm last game with a bunch of typing ( 25 minute game ). Why is my Z APM so damn high compared to my T?!!??

Nice, my best was 65 but I was getting some hundred later in the game since there are more stuff to do. Thanks for the games









Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I'd be more surprised if your Z apm wasn't higher

Zerg has more stuff to do all around (which is part of why it is harder to learn. Queens laying eggs constantly, expanding quickly and on time, harassing w/ mutas early and often. . .)

True, there are sooo many different things to do. I mean continually pumping out drones, exp, building all the units, the queen, expanding creep, possibly securing more exps(really all 3 races do this), harassing with mustalisks, etc.... Having said that, I just played against a Terran right now. Did a lot of things that I messed up with when playing against DoomDash, but, long story short, he harassed me with a reaper twice early on, more of a bother than anything else. Then he tried a drop in twice, first time he got a couple of units down, second time my zerglings+mutalisks wiped him out. Eventually, he just quit since that was his whole force, lol. I did harass his SCV and took a good part of them down which was another factor along with something like 30 mutalisks descending onto his base







Uploaded for those who want to see it for fun


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Do any of the Zerg players here use the cancel extractor trick to get an extra drone at the start?
Do you do this every time, or does it depend on the build you are going for?

I used to do this if I was planning on throwing down an earlier pool on 11 or 12 - either single or double trick and avoid building the overlord until the pool was in progress. I've since switched over to 9/overlord and have been going 14/gas 13/pool almost exclusively, since you'll be able to start zergling speed just after your pool finishes.

Found this thread on TeamLiquid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=130273

I remember hearing several people say that it was either a net wash or a loss of minerals, so it doesn't really seem to be worth it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I'd be more surprised if your Z apm wasn't higher

Zerg has more stuff to do all around (which is part of why it is harder to learn. Queens laying eggs constantly, expanding quickly and on time, harassing w/ mutas early and often. . .)

There is a lot to do but honestly I'm playing at the same effort level for all 3 races. It's just strange that I average probably 40 ~ apm higher with my Z.

I can really feel the room I have for APM improvement. I really think I can get my APM much higher.

*Edit*

I still do the extractor trick. It may not be amazing or even gain anything, but its too cool







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
There is a lot to do but honestly I'm playing at the same effort level for all 3 races. It's just strange that I average probably 40 ~ apm higher with my Z.

I can really feel the room I have for APM improvement. I really think I can get my APM much higher.

*Edit*

I still do the extractor trick. It may not be amazing or even gain anything, but its too cool







.

Never done it, almost sounds like a cheating move to get more drones for more minerals early on


----------



## DoomDash

Probably not missing anything as bur pointed out.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

the last game husky casted, the zerg player had over 400-500 apm at one point.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
"often"?

Understatement of the decade~











Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Do any of the Zerg players here use the cancel extractor trick to get an extra drone at the start?
Do you do this every time, or does it depend on the build you are going for?

I do. I go 9/OL build and I do this to get my 11th drone started before my OL comes out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Never done it, almost sounds like a cheating move to get more drones for more minerals early on









If you think about it though, everyone else starts with 11 supply and we only get 10.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 









I do. I go 9/OL build and I do this to get my 11th drone started before my OL comes out.

If you think about it though, everyone else starts with 11 supply and we only get 10.

Wrong. Only terran gets 11 supply in the beginning.


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xserpint* 
Wrong. Only terran gets 11 supply in the beginning.

Oh? Hmm, guess I never really have played as protoss


----------



## deanlewandowski

Wait.
Terran starts with more supply than the other races?!?!?
Good. Thats another reason for me to hate all the Terran players out there LOL JK.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 









I do. I go 9/OL build and I do this to get my 11th drone started before my OL comes out.

If you think about it though, everyone else starts with 11 supply and we only get 10.

Yes, zerg only has 10. Terran has 11, why an extra one, no clue. Protoss is 10 as well I think







I might try that trick to see the benefits if any, although, I'll do it once I get to 10, get an OL, only to make an extractor and a drone, then cancel. Thinking about it though, it does seem that it would have some economical benefits since you have an extra drone early on









Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Wait.
Terran starts with more supply than the other races?!?!?
Good. Thats another reason for me to hate all the Terran players out there LOL JK.

Yes, they do. Another reason to hate them


----------



## Tchernobyl

That's a good question, why in the hell do terran start with 11 max supply?


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



We're well aware of the concerns on balance, if we're not in direct contact with pro players we keep a careful eye on what they say and do. I know balance changes are planned, I've heard of some specific changes for the next patch. I can't talk about them yet. Soon.


Bashiok, Blizzard Poster~
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...0736?page=3#55


----------



## durch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Terran has 11, why an extra one, no clue.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


That's a good question, why in the hell do terran start with 11 max supply?


Because an SCV needs to build the supply depot, taking it away from mining operations. Zerg and Protoss don't need to remove a drone/probe from mining to get more supply built (well, technically the Protoss do for like 2 seconds).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Zerg don't but they need it for buildings

its just another reason why terran income and then macro early game is higher than the other races. here comes the mules


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *durch*


Because an SCV needs to build the supply depot, taking it away from mining operations. Zerg and Protoss don't need to remove a drone/probe from mining to get more supply built (well, technically the Protoss do for like 2 seconds).


Yes and no. You lose a drone for building structures as well, so, you have to constantly make some.


----------



## deanlewandowski

If I can get a little help on one more replay that would be greatly appreciated.

Played a game vs Protoss and lost to Void Rays.
I was building Hydralisks and doing a pretty good job countering them at first.

He totally wrecked my expansion. I thought I would have had the advantage supply wise since he was still only in one base.
The only thing I can think that I should have done was move my spine crawlers to help defend the expansion.
Did I just do that bad of a job defending?


----------



## jprovido

I love you Blizzard! now I can play to SEA and NA at the same time!

add me up dudes. jprovido - [email protected]

can you guys do the same as well? can you play at SEA?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


I love you Blizzard! now I can play to SEA and NA at the same time!

add me up dudes. jprovido - [email protected]

can you guys do the same as well? can you play at SEA?


How can you tell? I know i am paying in NA right now but not sure about SEA.


----------



## listen to remix

@Dean... 
What's the point of that expo if you do not move half of your drones there to mine? At 22 minutes into the game, the was getting more minerals than you even though he only had 1 expo and you had 2.

What's the point of those mutas doing nothing in middle the map?


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
What kind of FPS are you getting in Wine and what were you getting using Windows?
Is this running on your sig rig, and if not, what are the specs of the machine?

Sorry to wait forever I didn't have much time at work untill today to check this out...

AVG fps with the hardware i specified in Linux at Medium Graphics was at 33~61.

I do not have windows in the machine above, I only use Linux at work, so It will be hard to test Hardware per Heardware Windows VS Linux in FPS...

But, It was running just as great as it ran in Windows XP/7 with Nvidia 7950gx2.


----------



## ThumperSD

Can some of you guys recommend me a good SC2 mouse? The one that I have is good for FPS but the way it's curved doesnt make it very good for playing SC2 for a long time.

Looking for the absolute best SC2 mouse for around $50


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
If I can get a little help on one more replay that would be greatly appreciated.

Played a game vs Protoss and lost to Void Rays.
I was building Hydralisks and doing a pretty good job countering them at first.

He totally wrecked my expansion. I thought I would have had the advantage supply wise since he was still only in one base.
The only thing I can think that I should have done was move my spine crawlers to help defend the expansion.
Did I just do that bad of a job defending?



Just had a chance to see the replay. There are some things that you could have done that would have helped you easily conquer him. Here are some of them:
Expansion: You expanded very lately into the game. I think it was at 13min or so, possibly more, can't recall exact time, but, with zerg units like protoss, you need the gas, so, expanding earlier means more gas and minerals since you can saturate your mineral lines








Mineral usage: It was pretty bad. I mean you had 1300 minerals at one point. You could have used them to expand some more getting much more gas in the process as well as make zerglings since they are pretty cheap to keep some pressure on him.
Units used: You relied mostly on hydras once you saw he had void rays. Problem is with void rays, once they power up, they can be almost unstoppable which is why you need a unit that moves faster to break the attack. You should have made a spire, made lots of mutalisks and harassed his base. Due to their speed, you would have wiped him probes and most of his base before he even has time to react since his base was pretty defenseless from the side which brings my next point. Also, you had larvae lying around. I counted 13 of those at one point, again, unless you are saving them up for mustalisks or something, it's better to use them and just spawn more.
Scouting: Other than using a zergling once or twice and the overload a couple of times, it was almost non-existant. Intel of your opponent plays a big key in a war. You could have made an overseer, dropped a changeling on the side of his base and then learned about his strategy, defense, placement of units, etc.... That would have gone a long way in this game and you would have been able to tell when he is going to attack, how weak his defense is, etc.... That changeling works wonders if done properly







Also, take advantage of the Xel'naga towers. They are great early in the game to detect an attack and more players than not just ignore them








Attacks: You had the roaches attack first then brought in the zerglings, problem is roaches are ranged, so, kinda like in a war, archers are in the back while footman are in the front. Your zerglings could have provided cover for your roaches and are much cheaper to make so you could have easily pumped out more and keep the pressure on if your attach failed/needed more support. Also, you attacked at a choke point, meaning that the ramp was too small to fit all your units, so, his zealots/stalkers were fighting your roaches/zerglings one by one reducing their efficieny greatly. Using the point of scouting, you could have easily loaded up a nydus worm with speedlings and with an overload behind his mineral line or even on the side where he has no defense, got a worm there and unloaded the speedlings. You would have easily taken out his probes and completely stalled his economy. I've pulled this move dozens of times and most people fall for it considering that they don't scout enough.

I uploaded a replay earlier on that had me go up against a Terran as zerg which showed some of these points. I expanded early on and used mustalisks to constantly harass which is the reason why he gave up in the game, since, I wiped out all his forces. Having said that, I also didn't put enough d in my main base and that could have resulted in a loss. Like you, I find that sometimes I stack up minerals, but, when I notice that, then I usually just start building any structures I need, make more defense/offense units, more drones to replace lost ones, expand to another base far from mine, etc....
Good luck with the rest of your games, hopefully, some of what I wrote helps you out









Quote:


Originally Posted by *listen to remix* 
@Dean...
What's the point of that expo if you do not move half of your drones there to mine? At 22 minutes into the game, the was getting more minerals than you even though he only had 1 expo and you had 2.

What's the point of those mutas doing nothing in middle the map?

mutas? We must be watching a different game. Are you referring to his latest one?


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay

crazy game >.> yes, i know i made many mistakes (not spending enough for instance, at one point i glanced up and had 13k minerals? wut!)

recently saw that no queen thing day9 did, tried a few things which obviously quite didn't work out XD but the early pressure made the terran stay in his base, which gave me enough time to upgrade/tech up, which eventually won me the match. Although the biggest mistake he made was not attacking at all, really. Several times when my force was dead, he could have attacked and wiped me out, but didn't. Ah well, his loss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay

crazy game >.> yes, i know i made many mistakes (not spending enough for instance, at one point i glanced up and had 13k minerals? wut!)

recently saw that no queen thing day9 did, tried a few things which obviously quite didn't work out XD but the early pressure made the terran stay in his base, which gave me enough time to upgrade/tech up, which eventually won me the match. Although the biggest mistake he made was not attacking at all, really. Several times when my force was dead, he could have attacked and wiped me out, but didn't. Ah well, his loss.

Wow, 13k, imagine if you decided to just build hatcheries with queens and pumped out speedlings+attack speed upgrade. That would have been great







I think one thing that you forget is that he had no clue that you were wiped out, so, he didn't want to take a risk and attack, although, he could have scouted using a radar or a reaper, etc.... just to see where you are. I haven't seen the game yet, so, I have no clue if he had a radar station


----------



## Tchernobyl

he had some, yes, but he didn't seem to do much with it. And i did have a bunch of hatcheries when i saw that i had 13k (5 hatches i think?) but he used planetary fortresses as defense towers to his main so I couldn't reliably get through :x


----------



## thiagocosta85

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Hey guys !... I guess this is okay to do since you already own the game.

If you really enjoy the SC2 Music / Sounds, you can extract it by yourself using MPQ Editor. The real file that has the sounds is not named .MPQ for a reason... It is the 3GB one...

I like the zerg music alot, it is good for programming and for anything that requires concentration....

I made a link for you guys.
Enjoy the nice music of SC2 while not in the game =D...

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Sorry for the upload speed, but I had to cap it so it doesn't slow me down...
All the music files are in .ogg format. I use Winamp 3 to play them.

But you can use an alternate player or even convert them to any format such as mp3 etc...

Well... Enjoy.

----WARNING----

I would recommend using download accelerator just in case, since I am working on services and I might restart the pc sometimes. I will upload to mediafire when I get time. Don't worry toomuch the files are pretty small. 8 MB tops.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
he had some, yes, but he didn't seem to do much with it. And i did have a bunch of hatcheries when i saw that i had 13k (5 hatches i think?) but he used planetary fortresses as defense towers to his main so I couldn't reliably get through :x

oh, I see. Bad move on his part, but, PFs are really crazy. I mean 1000+ hp with 40 damage and they can be repaired. I can see people building those near an opponent's base in the near future and leading an opponent to them, would be a truly classic move


----------



## godofdeath

i get blue flickers on this game any idea why?


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Can some of you guys recommend me a good SC2 mouse? The one that I have is good for FPS but the way it's curved doesnt make it very good for playing SC2 for a long time.

Looking for the absolute best SC2 mouse for around $50

Dunno if this is the best (ordered it myself this morning)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-065-_-Product

Is a shellshocker today..


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Can some of you guys recommend me a good SC2 mouse? The one that I have is good for FPS but the way it's curved doesnt make it very good for playing SC2 for a long time.

Looking for the absolute best SC2 mouse for around $50

I can recommend Razer Deathadder. It's good for all kinds of games.


----------



## jprovido

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
How can you tell? I know i am paying in NA right now but not sure about SEA.

We have a "region" tab in SC2 before we log in so we can choose if we want to play to either SEA or NA servers. NA is much better imo


----------



## DoomDash

SC1 music > SC2 music.


----------



## DoomDash

If you guys remember like 2 days ago I upoaded my own 1.1 ultralisk bug on youtube. **** has 4000+ views already!


----------



## ThumperSD

SC2 terran music sucks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
SC2 terran music sucks

It's widely considered the best, and I have to agree. Even a thread on TL discussing Terran is OP because they have the best ST.

Eitherway SC1 music > 2.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrgull13* 
Dunno if this is the best (ordered it myself this morning)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-065-_-Product

Is a shellshocker today..

Hmm lack of reviews makes me hesitate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I can recommend Razer Deathadder. It's good for all kinds of games.

I was considering this. Is it better than logitech g9x for SC2? My other mouse works fine for FPS games so im looking something specifically for SC2


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's widely considered the best, and I have to agree. Even a thread on TL discussing Terran is OP because they have the best ST.

Eitherway SC1 music > 2.

Sounds like futuristic country music IMO lol


----------



## durch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes and no. You lose a drone for building structures as well, so, you have to constantly make some.

Yes you need a drone for making buildings, but you do not need a drone to make more supply. Overlords are made from a larvae. Terran is unique in that it needs to take a worker away from mining to make more supply, hence the initial 11 versus the other race's 10.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Sounds like futuristic country music IMO lol

Did you ever watch Firefly? Because that's kind of the concept behind that TV series, and it was widely loved. The Terran music in SC2 sounds like it was largely influenced by that show.

I like it.


----------



## DoomDash

Personally I love Razer and I'll probably be buying the SCII line up.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Did you ever watch Firefly? Because that's kind of the concept behind that TV series, and it was widely loved. The Terran music in SC2 sounds like it was largely influenced by that show.

I like it.

Never.. maybe that will explain blizzard's awkward terran music in SC2? I dont think the country sounding terran music fits well this type of game at all but it seems like a lot of ppl do like it. Maybe that's why terran is my least played race lol.

IDK but I enjoyed the SC1 music A LOT. I actually have my SC2 music turned off and just leave all of the other sounds on with something playing on winamp


----------



## -bl4ck-

i like the sc2 terran music lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Never.. maybe that will explain blizzard's awkward terran music in SC2? I dont think the country sounding terran music fits well this type of game at all but it seems like a lot of ppl do like it. Maybe that's why terran is my least played race lol.

IDK but I enjoyed the SC1 music A LOT. I actually have my SC2 music turned off and just leave all of the other sounds on with something playing on winamp

I hate Country, and although I know what you're talking about its very minor. I think its always been that way for Terran. In a way the SC1 soundtrack sounds like advanced electronic country as well. Plus, if you remember SC1 CGI it had a lot of ******* Terrans. Terrans are pretty much space cowboys ( which is why they are ****ing aweeeesomeee ).

Just look at the bar that Raynor hangs out at.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Firefly is awesome, and the theme is pretty much COWBOYS IN...SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!

...which fits Starcraft Terrans to a T(errans).

>_>


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Firefly is awesome, and the theme is pretty much COWBOYS IN...SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!

...which fits Starcraft Terrans to a T(errans).

>_>

Yeah, perfectly fits. I love it for SCII, just like I did for Firefly. Stupid bastards for canceling that great show.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Indeed.
(wait what, Doomdash and I agreeing? what madness is this)


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like you are occasionally right after all.


----------



## BigFan

Just had an interesting match with a Protoss. He built photo cannons around his nexus and basically sealed himself in with enough room for probes. I had two bases full with drones getting minerals and gas and was building mutalisks and zerglings. I scout him and think that it should be pretty easy to take him down with not much force. I attack his base but he had too many photo cannons, so, I wait a bit more and realized he started an exp. Attack that and again he has enough photo cannons to fend me off, although, i do destroy his probes. I work more on my drones, expanding my base, etc.... then realize that he is building up carriers since he decides to attack me with a couple. Take them down with mutalisks, build some more and he attacks with 5 carriers. Sad to say, but, my mutalisks didn't stand a chance even with some corruptors to aid them. I ended up losing the game. Moral of the story is to never underestimate your opponent









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Indeed.
(wait what, Doomdash and I agreeing? what madness is this)


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Looks like you are occasionally right after all.

Agree? Occasionally right? My mind is gonna implode


----------



## DoomDash

If you see fast cannons for defense start expanding everywhere. Keep an eye on him, and roaches are pretty solid vs cannons assuming he doesn't put anything in front of them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If you see fast cannons for defense start expanding everywhere. Keep an eye on him, and roaches are pretty solid vs cannons assuming he doesn't put anything in front of them.

Actually, I did make some roaches and did a small attack, but, I wanted to go air since he was going air. I just didn't expect him to mass some carriers


----------



## Tchernobyl

Someone watch the game I posted~ If only to laugh at it ;P


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Someone watch the game I posted~ If only to laugh at it ;P

I would but unfortunately, not tonight, gotta get to sleep


----------



## DoomDash

Forcefield is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooo amazing. I just played a guy who literally trapped me in my base for the entire game. If I tried to move out he would just split my forces in half ( on the ramp ) and slaughter them. It was so rough. Went 3-3 today. No 1000 points for me today. Tomorrow maybe.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Forcefield is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooo amazing. I just played a guy who literally trapped me in my base for the entire game. If I tried to move out he would just split my forces in half ( on the ramp ) and slaughter them. It was so rough. Went 3-3 today. No 1000 points for me today. Tomorrow maybe.

Why not go air or use transports to ambush his base/leave your base from the side?







Either way, forcefield sounds amazing


----------



## DoomDash

Because if Terran techs too fast vs 3 gate robo they can easily be crushed IMO. I'll come up with something...


----------



## thiru

Get a thor?


----------



## DoomDash

Something like that. I'm thinking faster cloak.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well, in lost temple he thor + banshee'd me. It's the terran mobility that's hard to handle.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL round of 16 videos. watch fruitdealer ( cool ) vs oGstop game 1. OMG!!! so good. havent watched game 2 yet. Watch the ultralisk glitch in action too LOL.

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/view/1122#

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
well, in lost temple he thor + banshee'd me. It's the terran mobility that's hard to handle.

Terran has awful mobility ( excluding banshee ).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
GSL round of 16 videos. watch fruitdealer ( cool ) vs oGstop game 1. OMG!!! so good. havent watched game 2 yet. Watch the ultralisk glitch in action too LOL.

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/view/1122#

Terran has awful mobility ( excluding banshee ).


*EDIT* lol good matches. more ultra glitch.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Terran has awful mobility ( excluding banshee ).

Wow. Sometimes I think you're just trolling.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Terran has awful mobility ( excluding banshee ).


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Wow. Sometimes I think you're just trolling.

I don't see how he's trolling at all....

Anyways, I kind of agree, everyone complains that terran is all OP and crap (which i'm not arguing, but not fully agreeing either) but it's by far my weakest race. Not sure why either. My worker management is by far the worst since you have to have a separate worker building each building if you want to build them at the same time, where as with the other 2 races you can have one build everything, or you can just tell them to build something and you can forget about them. I need to find the point where you don't need buildings and you need more units.... which I'm working on


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Hmm lack of reviews makes me hesitate

Not sure why, but maybe it's just because Saitek is more known for keyboard and flight sticks rather than mice.. and even then, Razer and Roccat are starting to shut the older brands out, which is why I turned back to Saitek since their prices are coming down, and the keyboard I own I've been using for like 5 years, with no problems other than some of the paint wearing off of the keys (which doesn't matter to me anyway since I know what all the keys are)

Sorry for double post


----------



## thiagocosta85

-=REPLAY=-
http://98.118.57.8:88/sc2gift/thiagocosta85.SC2Replay

Hahahahahahaah ! ...
Nothing amazing about this replay but....

It was just funny, how 2 crystal noobies loose on a 2v1...

Well, my partner got owned by banshees (how ever u spell that) and I took Zerg + Terran when they had no reason to loose!

It was jst fun watching the colossus burning everything they saw =D


----------



## deanlewandowski

For mouse I use a Logitech G9. Got it for $45 shipped from Bestbuy.com and really happy with it.
I think that any mouse with changeable grips, adjustable weights, and adjustable dpi is going to be everything you need for Starcraft play.

Since we are on the topic of the mouse you use, is it possible to map keys/ actions or whatever to the buttons on the mouse I'm not using?
If it is, do you do it and what actions/ etc do you have bound to the buttons?


----------



## DoomDash

Bio is equal to Protoss in mobility, but metal is obviously very immobile excluding hellions. Certainly not as mobile as Zerg, and slightly less than Protoss. Protoss also can use warp prisms to just reinforce from anywhere on the map ( or pylons ). Terran has nothing to jump from point A to point B unlike Protoss and Zerg. Medivacs are good for mobility but every one has an equivalent or something better. Try moving a group of units mixed with siege tanks and thors around on huge maps and you'll agree with me.

Oh reapers are pretty sick mobile. But they are kind of a one trick poney.

If you guys don't agree with me on here and you want to punish me you can attempt to do so on SCII







.


----------



## deanlewandowski

I've seen some cool Zerg tricks with Nydus worms
One replay watching "Sen" had a Protoss player pretty well protected behind Photon Cannons,
Sen got a worm in the top corner of his opponents base, moved like 50 Roaches/ Zerglings in and just smashed all his workers/ main structures GG.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Nydus networks are good, not only offensively but defensively. Great to reinforce your expansions, and even better for grabbing islands on temple ect.


----------



## sorage

yes.. those worms are a real pain in the....................


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


GSL round of 16 videos. watch fruitdealer ( cool ) vs oGstop game 1. OMG!!! so good. havent watched game 2 yet. Watch the ultralisk glitch in action too LOL.

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/view/1122#

Terran has awful mobility ( excluding banshee ).


Well, mechanical units are somewhat awful(thor, I'm looking at you







), but, they sure are powerful. There is no competition of thor vs. mutalisks for example. Vikings are also great against them and decent against corruptors









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Wow. Sometimes I think you're just trolling.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Bio is equal to Protoss in mobility, but metal is obviously very immobile excluding hellions. Certainly not as mobile as Zerg, and slightly less than Protoss. Protoss also can use warp prisms to just reinforce from anywhere on the map ( or pylons ). Terran has nothing to jump from point A to point B unlike Protoss and Zerg. Medivacs are good for mobility but every one has an equivalent or something better. Try moving a group of units mixed with siege tanks and thors around on huge maps and you'll agree with me.

Oh reapers are pretty sick mobile. But they are kind of a one trick poney.

If you guys don't agree with me on here and you want to punish me you can attempt to do so on SCII







.


I will attempt again as those games I played were with me making such obvious mistakes against you. I'll be on later on, probably in 30min or so, so, maybe we can get a match going









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah Nydus networks are good, not only offensively but defensively. Great to reinforce your expansions, and even better for grabbing islands on temple ect.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *sorage*


yes.. those worms are a real pain in the....................


Yes, they are great all around and can also be a pain if you aren't zerg, lol. However, medivacs as well as phase prisms can be also painful if used correctly, you just can't carry as many as units in each







the problem with using a worm is that you have to get it into their base and they have a chance of destroying it so a little deception on one's part is needed to ensure that you make the connection


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Bio is equal to Protoss in mobility, but metal is obviously very immobile excluding hellions. Certainly not as mobile as Zerg, and slightly less than Protoss. Protoss also can use warp prisms to just reinforce from anywhere on the map ( or pylons ). Terran has nothing to jump from point A to point B unlike Protoss and Zerg. Medivacs are good for mobility but every one has an equivalent or something better. Try moving a group of units mixed with siege tanks and thors around on huge maps and you'll agree with me.

Oh reapers are pretty sick mobile. But they are kind of a one trick poney.

If you guys don't agree with me on here and you want to punish me you can attempt to do so on SCII







.


Stimmed marines and marauders are one of the fastest units in game. They are faster then anything protoss has, except phoenix and faster off creep than anything zerg has except speedlings. Helions are the fastest ground units in the game. Reapers are super mobile. And medivacs allow terran to be all over the map. Sure tanks and thors are hard to move, but overall terran's mobility is far from awful.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay

crazy game >.> yes, i know i made many mistakes (not spending enough for instance, at one point i glanced up and had 13k minerals? wut!)

recently saw that no queen thing day9 did, tried a few things which obviously quite didn't work out XD but the early pressure made the terran stay in his base, which gave me enough time to upgrade/tech up, which eventually won me the match. Although the biggest mistake he made was not attacking at all, really. Several times when my force was dead, he could have attacked and wiped me out, but didn't. Ah well, his loss.


reposting that replay of mine since people probably forgot about it







was fun, but I know I made a bunch of mistakes


----------



## BigFan

Just had my best day in terms of wins. Got 3 in a row, first against a toss who went crazy with stalkers on the scrap station map, never played on it before, but, when he attacked my exp which wasn't defended other by two crawlers, I opened a worm in his base and unleashed the fury of roaches and zerglings. Suffice to say, I took out all his probes and almost or fully destroyed the nexus. He returned in time to save his other structures. He then went on the attack again and I used mutalisks to further harass his base and his probes at his other base eventually taking him down







Unfortunately, the game froze RIGHT after I defeated him, so, I lost the replay. Is there anyway to get it back, as in the replays are usually saved in the unsaved folder but it doesn't appear that this one was saved and there were a couple of things that I wanted to look at







Other two games involved me getting my expansions taken down by my opponent as well, but, used mutalisks for some harassement as well as defended my base and used zerglings for some ground assault at the same time









One thing I noticed is that I'm not getting any of the cheese moves that people were talking about. I haven't gotten 6 pool, proxy gates or barracks or cannons, no worker rush, etc.... My opponents just seem to build up a really large force of marines+marauders and then attack my base at which point I'll start scrambling to get more roaches out and possibly make some crawlers. Maybe those who used to cheese have left, since, the game has been out for some time(2 month now)?


----------



## wheth4400

i don't know where else to ask this, and it is going to sound noob. I am a decent player, not nearly elite, but also not a noob. However, I hear alot of talk about hot keys in this game, and I know how to bind a group to a number, but what are they talking about? How do you make hot keys to do tasks, and perform actions.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wheth4400* 
i don't know where else to ask this, and it is going to sound noob. I am a decent player, not nearly elite, but also not a noob. However, I hear alot of talk about hot keys in this game, and I know how to bind a group to a number, but what are they talking about? How do you make hot keys to do tasks, and perform actions.

Hot keys are already set in the game but I think you can manually change some of them. For example, to build a drone, you can click on hatchery, click S to select larvae and then click D for drone. For attack, you can select units and then click A and click on a position on the map. Those are the hotkeys that they are talking about. To find the other hotkeys for a unit/action, when you put your mouse over a unit to make it, the letter will be white and for actions, I think it's in brackets, but, actions are usually the first letter(M for move, A for attack, etc....)


----------



## justinguitar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wheth4400* 
i don't know where else to ask this, and it is going to sound noob. I am a decent player, not nearly elite, but also not a noob. However, I hear alot of talk about hot keys in this game, and I know how to bind a group to a number, but what are they talking about? How do you make hot keys to do tasks, and perform actions.

Above response. You can also go into settings and change up the hotkeys to w/e you like.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Stimmed marines and marauders are one of the fastest units in game.

Does not count. Again I'm talking the entire picture.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Does not count. Again I'm talking the entire picture.

Marauders are actually pretty fast, not crazy but pretty decent for their size/power/mechanical type


----------



## DoomDash

Not really? Unless you think Zealots are fast before upgrades, or marines... which they are not.


----------



## deanlewandowski

I've been watching replays of "Sen" from his stream
(Sen is a top Korean Zerg player)
Heres one of the replays:
http://www.justin.tv/synctrim/b/268195361

Been getting some really good strategy from watching these matches.
This guy is insane at the Micro side of the game. Idk how you learn that other than insane amounts of practice...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

my friend the silver zerg player just kicked my ass both games and i'm in plat playing protoss

fudge I SUCUCUCKK


----------



## Heret|c

I don't even bother going from my base to my opponent just built a bunch of medivacs,
and drop marines and marauders right on top of my oponnent drones.

By the time he confronts my forces all his economy is gone, then it's stim and gg.


----------



## Epona

Unless he took some of those minerals that he was obviously building up since he couldn't kill you with what he had and made defenses... then you're screwed.


----------



## KaiZ51

I have started playing online today and... How the hell do people build their base/units so quickly? I mean, it almost seems like they're cheating and have double building speed!

Only did 2 matches so far on practice league, first one I lost, and the second one we won because the guy actually was a good player and didn't have any trouble at all dealing with the other 2 guys (I only finished building my army when he had already eliminated 1 of the 2 players).

Dunno what my next match will be like, but it seems like if I don't get matched with a good partner, I'll just get raped beyond anything imaginable...

Any tips please? I only play Terran for now because I know how to use them due to the campaign, and the game provides no information on how to play the other races as far as I know...


----------



## Epona

What I'd say is develop a build order. For Terran, I get 9 pop - supply depot, 10 pop - barracks, 12 pop - refinery (or something like that). Have that set out. You can find some build orders and what they're used for (what matchups) on Team Liquid's website. Also, you need to know hotkeys. They're essential for macroing up an army. You need to know SCV is S, Marine is A, Siege Tank is S, Marauder is D, Medivac is D, Viking is V, Banshee is E, etc. You need to know those well to make it anywhere online. Also, after you get your barracks, make sure you get an orbital command and a second barracks soon after, so you can pump off two.

Those are some beginning tips. If you need more help, they have a weekly practice here on OCN (I think) or go to Team Liquid's site and look up some strategies.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


my friend the silver zerg player just kicked my ass both games and i'm in plat playing protoss

fudge I SUCUCUCKK


Well, you go to plat, means you must know how to somewhat play







Either way, I've lost to bronze players before(I'm in silver) but with experience and practice, one can easily defeat a higher level opponent









Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


I don't even bother going from my base to my opponent just built a bunch of medivacs,
and drop marines and marauders right on top of my oponnent drones.

By the time he confronts my forces all his economy is gone, then it's stim and gg.


I had a guy try that on me twice, possibly three times in the game. He managed to drop some marauders and marines once but I surrounded him with zerglings, roaches and wiped all his medivacs and units. If your opponent is zerg and has minerals stocked up, then all he has to do is build a queen, build drones until it's ready then spawn larvae and in no time, he's back up to the same economical strength he was before. Point is against a good player, that strategy won't work









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KaiZ51*


I have started playing online today and... How the hell do people build their base/units so quickly? I mean, it almost seems like they're cheating and have double building speed!

Only did 2 matches so far on practice league, first one I lost, and the second one we won because the guy actually was a good player and didn't have any trouble at all dealing with the other 2 guys (I only finished building my army when he had already eliminated 1 of the 2 players).

Dunno what my next match will be like, but it seems like if I don't get matched with a good partner, I'll just get raped beyond anything imaginable...

Any tips please? I only play Terran for now because I know how to use them due to the campaign, and the game provides no information on how to play the other races as far as I know...


Really, it's quite simple. Build scv's till maxed out. Build supply depot or two. Build a couple of barracks with the two different techs then mass marines and marauders. Research stim and concussive shells along with life upgrade for marines and you have a powerful force. Pair that up with medivacs or medics and you can have a very strong force especially with the concussive shell upgrade. I've had many games where all my opponent did was do the above and I lost because I underestimate it's strength, didn't build enough defense, etc..... Either way, don't play practice games or play a couple more and jump into the actual league. The speed of the game is much slower and they have rocks blocking your entrances so they are essentially getting you to turtle instead of expand which is what you should be doing. To try the other races, I would suggest playing against the comp AI on very easy so that you can experiment and find other different units abilities, etc.... You might find that you like one of the other races more than Terran. Also, play some 1vs1 games. With 2vs2, you rely on your partner, however, 1vs1, it's all you, so, you feel like you had to work to win, great feel










Edit: I agree with Epona except on the idea of hotkeys. They simplify the game and allow you to respond quicker to threat(making more units for example), however, it doesn't mean that you have to actually use them to win games







Also, in terms of build orders, yes, it's a good idea to have a starting point, but, personally, I like to keep my builds flexible, so, I know that for the first whatever supplies, I want to have a pool, queen, possibly an extractor and a roach warren, but, after that, I build what I require, not just because I have it set that I need a spire for example, not that it's a bad idea to build one


----------



## DoomDash

Hot keys / Control groups. I also suggest Protoss as your first race as they are probably easiest to pick up over all.


----------



## Heret|c

How do you post your replays?
Also I reached rank 1 in bronze, then I won a bunch of matches, is it supposed to bump me up in the leagues?

Also what is the best strategy to get ahead in placement, can u just 6 pool people?


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.sc2replayed.com/
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...ys.php?game=33


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If you keep winning I'm sure they'll bump you.


----------



## DoomDash

yessssssss finally hit 1000 points! Very hard TvT to get there.


----------



## BigFan

^^ Question is, can you maintain it?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
If you keep winning I'm sure they'll bump you.

Someone mentioned that they kept on winning but never moved up, however, when they ended up losing a game, they were moved, so, it's possible that it works based on your losses as well as wins


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
^^ Question is, can you maintain it?









Of course. I plan on going up much higher. I wish I had more bonus pool though.

Most of my opponents are 1100-1200 anyway.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Of course. I plan on going up much higher. I wish I had more bonus pool though.

Most of my opponents are 1100-1200 anyway.

What is a bonus pool?


----------



## thiagocosta85

Hey guys, I have a question ...

Curiosity...
For example, lets say you are crystal 1v1 ...
How do you goback to platnum or gold or even silver? ...

Do I just loose untill it happens? can ti be done that way? ...
I don't want to buy a fresh cdkey jst for this...

When I want to play a custom game for fun like, Fast $ etc, many times people leave the game lobby when they notice the crystal.

Thanks guys.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
What is a bonus pool?

You haven't noticed by now? You get bonus pool over time. If you haven't played in a few days you'll have a bunch of saved up bonus pool. That way when you win it uses your bonus pool points on top of your win ( effectively doubling your score ).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Hey guys, I have a question ...

Curiosity...
For example, lets say you are crystal 1v1 ...
How do you goback to platnum or gold or even silver? ...

Do I just loose untill it happens? can ti be done that way? ...
I don't want to buy a fresh cdkey jst for this...

When I want to play a custom game for fun like, Fast $ etc, many times people leave the game lobby when they notice the crystal.

Thanks guys.

Funny.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You haven't noticed by now? You get bonus pool over time. If you haven't played in a few days you'll have a bunch of saved up bonus pool. That way when you win it uses your bonus pool points on top of your win ( effectively doubling your score ).

I noticed it, but, wasn't sure what it's purpose was, since, mine was sitting at >800


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I noticed it, but, wasn't sure what it's purpose was, since, mine was sitting at >800









Yeah give me some of that please. I'm in the 20's







.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I think the bonus pools we have in my 3v3 and 4v4 leagues are huge. Like 870+


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
I have started playing online today and... How the hell do people build their base/units so quickly? I mean, it almost seems like they're cheating and have double building speed!

The first thing you should focus on is constantly producing from your buildings. Don't worry about trying to micro your units like you see in a pro replay, don't worry about trying to get that perfect mix of units - just make sure you're constantly building things. Constantly make SCVs from your Command Center, constantly make Marines/Marauders/whatever from your Barracks once they're finished, and constantly keep an eye on your food count in the top right hand corner. If you focus on utilizing your buildings 100% of the time and not supply-capping yourself you'll see build orders develop - aim to always keep your cash low, and if you see yourself with excess throw down another production building or two.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/

^ Day[9] does a stream nightly (Sunday through Thursday) where he really breaks down the thought processes of players and points out places where you can improve your play. He recently started doing a "Newbie Tuesday" stream where he looks at non-pro-level replays. You should definitely take a look at some of his videos if you're interested in moving up through the ranks of 1v1.

SC2 is pretty much my first RTS (a couple of months of beta + release), and I just got promoted to Diamond 1v1 today. I feel like I should write Day9 a letter thanking him


----------



## DoomDash

I would have to write a letter to Brood War for a thank you. Most of the needed skills carried over.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wheth4400* 
i don't know where else to ask this, and it is going to sound noob. I am a decent player, not nearly elite, but also not a noob. However, I hear alot of talk about hot keys in this game, and I know how to bind a group to a number, but what are they talking about? How do you make hot keys to do tasks, and perform actions.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
I have started playing online today and... How the hell do people build their base/units so quickly? I mean, it almost seems like they're cheating and have double building speed!
Any tips please? I only play Terran for now because I know how to use them due to the campaign, and the game provides no information on how to play the other races as far as I know...


This applies to both you Wraith and KaiZ51. It took me a while to get used to it but but here is how it works.

Hotkeys are a character in the name of a unit or ability that you can press on the keyboard and build or use that ability on the fly without having to click on the actual ability or unit box at the bottom right command box.

Lets take for example our dear friend the Battlecruiser.

*Step 1: Control Group*. Select a starport and press CTRL+1
What you just did was put that starport in control group 1. A small image with an icon of the starport and the number of buildings will show up above the unit info box right below the map.
If you have TWO starports you have an option. You can put them in DIFFERENT control groups if you want to make different units or you can put them in the same group if you want to mass the same unit.

To ADD it in the control group, select that second starport and press the left SHIFT+1. that will add the second starport with the first in control group 1. You can do the same with each control group.

During the Lategame I would have something like this:

Control group 1: 3 Command centers
Control group 2: 5 Barraks
Control group 3: 3 Factories
Control group 4: 3 Starports

Control group 5: Marine units on the field
Control group 6: Marauder units on the field
COntrol group 7: Viking units on the field
Control group 8: Raven units on the field
Control group 9: armories (quick expand, repair etc..)

NOTE: you can add different units in a control group either with shift or just MASS selecting them. If you have different units selected or different buildings selected (starport+Factory), press TAB and the control box at the bottom right will scroll through different abilities (units) or different units you can build (buildings)

If you DOUBLE press 1, it will bring you to center on the units in control group 1. If they are completely split up, i have NO CLUE where it centers, cause i havent tried it... Maybe on the first one added? Try it out.

*Step 2. HOTKEYS*, once you have a starport selected, the shortcut key to build that battlecruiser is 'B' . Instead of click on the battlecruiser picture, press B.
When the battlecruiser is built, your hotkey for Move is M, attack is A, Patrol is P etc....

And for his special Yamato Cannon ability, just press '*Y*' and click on the target and watch the fireworks.

So, learn ALL the hotkeys, practice with them. Just remember, the key is ALWAYS in the name of the unit or ability you are using. *B*attlecruiser, *Y*amato Cannon, marau*D*er, m*A*rine, meDivac, *V*iking, *G*host. mul*E*, *C*loak, s*T*im pack

Always use control groups so that when you need to make workers, you have your rally point set to minerals on the command center and you just press 1, and S for SCV for as many as you need wihtout going back to your base. This is expecially usefull during combat for reinforcing your units. you build them while microing your units on the battlefield.

THis is ABSOLUTELY critical for protoss with the warp gate+pilon ability. That is how most players seem like they are ALWAYS bringing in reinforcements WHILE attacking you at the same time and kiting units. Also, use rally points. If you are attacking someone you can set rally points MIdway into the map that way when the unit spawns its already on the move. and you can see it on the minimap. I dont know if you can set rally point, and shift A to get the spawned unit to attack afterspawn but ill try it tonight.


----------



## puzzledazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah give me some of that please. I'm in the 20's







.

It all means you play too much lol


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 

Funny.


No it's not funny... it's annoying.

I want to loose my crystal... how do I do that?

I still enjoy fast money etc, when I feel like having alot of fun...

But sometimes on the 30 second countdown, people leave the game at 2 secs and the game loads and your in with no oponents, or one opponent is missing...

and I am pretty sure the reason why they do that is because they check our record and they see one or more crystals there, they get intimidated....

[2nd copy]
Anyways yeah... I DO NOT CARE about my record at all... Am I good?.. well I'm OK. but the point is, I want to loose my crystal... how do I do that?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
No it's not funny... it's annoying.

I want to loose my crystal... how do I do that?

I still enjoy fast money etc, when I feel like having alot of fun...

But sometimes on the 30 second countdown, people leave the game at 2 secs and the game loads and your in with no oponents, or one opponent is missing...

and I am pretty sure the reason why they do that is because they check our record and they see one or more crystals there, they get intimidated....

[2nd copy]
Anyways yeah... I DO NOT CARE about my record at all... Am I good?.. well I'm OK. but the point is, I want to loose my crystal... how do I do that?

If you play opponent and keep on losing, you lose point losing your standing in your league and eventually be downgraded to platinum>gold>silver>bronze


----------



## thiagocosta85

Nice' I wasn't sure that'd work...

Thx buddy !


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
It all means you play too much lol

I wish I had more bonus pool, I'd play more.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Nice' I wasn't sure that'd work...

Thx buddy !

np, it's the only thing that comes to mind. I mean your standing in your division is based on points that you earned winning games, so, losing games would help you lose points lowering your standing and *likely but not 100% sure* downgrading you to platinum, etc....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I wish I had more bonus pool, I'd play more.

hmm, you've definitely played more games than I did, however, do the bonus pools start accumulating once you start the MP component? As soon as you register the game? I've been really playing games as much as 5 a day at one point but it doesn't seem like my pool is changing much


----------



## thiru

What happened to day9's dailies? I was looking forward to this Monday funday







(no expand until you start a carrier!)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

hmm, you've definitely played more games than I did, however, do the bonus pools start accumulating once you start the MP component? As soon as you register the game? I've been really playing games as much as 5 a day at one point but it doesn't seem like my pool is changing much









Also depends on how much you've won. It's only used when you win. I never had a very high bonus pool. IDK how it works exactly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
What happened to day9's dailies? I was looking forward to this Monday funday







(no expand until you start a carrier!)

What do you mean? It's tonight.


----------



## BigFan

DoomDash said:


> Also depends on how much you've won. It's only used when you win. I never had a very high bonus pool. IDK how it works exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> oh, I see, thanks
Click to expand...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Also depends on how much you've won. It's only used when you win. I never had a very high bonus pool. IDK how it works exactly.

What do you mean? It's tonight.

Oh lol I'm on Tuesday already


----------



## shnur

An SC2 thread!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
An SC2 thread!

no way!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh lol I'm on Tuesday already









I know. I always joke about this with my friend from Germany. I figured you just got confused.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like the Ultrabug is being fixed. Patch is out on Europe.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
An SC2 thread!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
no way!



















Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Looks like the Ultrabug is being fixed. Patch is out on Europe.

No way, I haven't had much of a chance to try it out, better play some more matches first then


----------



## Raedwulf

lol turn based games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raedwulf* 
lol turn based games.

Did someone bring these up?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Also depends on how much you've won. It's only used when you win. I never had a very high bonus pool. IDK how it works exactly.

If you've ever played WoW, bonus pool is basically rested XP. Your pool grows based on how many games other people have played in your division since you last logged on as a way of helping people keep pace if they're away for several days. You'll start out with a pool of varying size when you enter a division based on the total number of games played and the points spread within the division.

If you play frequently, your bonus pool won't really be much of a factor.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
If you've ever played WoW, bonus pool is basically rested XP. Your pool grows based on how many games other people have played in your division since you last logged on as a way of helping people keep pace if they're away for several days. You'll start out with a pool of varying size when you enter a division based on the total number of games played and the points spread within the division.

If you play frequently, your bonus pool won't really be much of a factor.

Make sense, mine is sitting at 818 or so. Interesting, since, I won four games in a row over the last 2 days before losing one and it's still sitting around there. Shouldn't it drop and how is it used? DoomDash mentioned that it multiplies your points, but, does that mean extra points that I won are removed from the pool?


----------



## burwij

Yeah, every time you win it'll double your points and deduct from your pool; if you lose, your pool isn't affected. I'm not 100% sure how they calculate the exact number of points that pile up, but that's my basic understanding of the system.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Yeah, every time you win it'll double your points and deduct from your pool; if you lose, your pool isn't affected. I'm not 100% sure how they calculate the exact number of points that pile up, but that's my basic understanding of the system.

oh, ok, thanks







+REPS, BTW, nice record


----------



## DoomDash

So are different divisions getting bonus pools at faster rates than mine?


----------



## DragonLotus

The pool regenerates overtime. When in a match, if it says Favored for the enemy, you will get more points for winning. Teams even, you get less. The bonus pool just doubles the amount of points you get until you run out from the pool. It regenerates very slowly though. And points doesn't really matter. If you win a lot of games, you move up leagues and the points just rank you in the league. You don't have to beat the #1 guy in your league to move up. But you're diamond anyways. Doesn't matter.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
hmm, you've definitely played more games than I did, however, do the bonus pools start accumulating once you start the MP component? As soon as you register the game? I've been really playing games as much as 5 a day at one point but it doesn't seem like my pool is changing much









I believe the pool goes up the longer you DONT play... so if you wait 2 weeks to play, you will have a bigger bonus pool than you otherwise would if you wait 2 days to play. I read this somewhere on some SC2 forum.

I also noticed this after not playing a 4v4 match for a while, my bonus pool went up


----------



## BigFan

^^ ok, thanks for your response, +REPS


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
^^ ok, thanks for your response, +REPS









NP

Just 1 more rep needed before I can start slanging my parts


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
NP

Just 1 more rep needed before I can start slanging my parts

Have fun. + rep.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Have fun. + rep.

lol.

Just had some of the most intense matches I've had. 3 games in a row against zerg and in ALL of them, I was rushed. First one, the guy attacked with zerglings early on. I fought back against the attack and started mounting my own counter attack. I attacked with my zerglings and was constantly pumping out units as he was teching up in the hopes of beating him. Watch replay to see the ending







Second one, I was 6 pooled. I had a pretty bad feeling that it will happen, so, I built a pool at 10 and then two crawlers but they weren't done in time, so, it was a struggle and eventually I lost







Finally, the last guy tried to build three crawlers in my base. I had to take all my workers off work to attack them and since I had my pool down I build some zerglings to do the rest. Since he attacked, I decided to counter attack, so, I started sending in zerglings, wave after wave. I was doing damage, but, he was also getting zerglings and was putting up crawlers, so, I had to move up and I started pumping out some roaches with the zerglings, but, decided to protect my base and expand otherwise. Suffice to say, it was a struggle the entire game but I finally won. I'll post up my first and last, since, the second was just a loss to a 6 pool







I'm sure someone will enjoy watching the struggle, I know I did and it's much better since I won








Replay #1: http://www.MegaShare.com/2618427
Replay #3: http://www.MegaShare.com/2618430
Enjoy


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Danm them zerg

honestly with all the muta ling vs my tos I might get bumped down soon.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Danm them zerg

honestly with all the muta ling vs my tos I might get bumped down soon.

lol, TBH, most of my strategies when I started playing practice games involved teching up to mutalisks or use worms loaded with zerglings to harass workers stalling an opponent economy and they work darn work. Part of the reason is that the base was blocked by rocks and I couldn't be bothered to break them down







I recently started incorporating roaches into my games since zerglings weren't cutting it when my opponent is constantly sending marauders, stalkers, zealots, etc.... which can take down zerglings very easily even in large numbers







I have yet to use hydras, brood lords(only did in one game) and ultralisks(only used in one game). Sad thing is that hydras and mutalisks used to be my prime method of attack in SC1 and hydras were fantastic with their range and speed upgrade especially in groups against bc, carriers and most units, not anymore for hydras at least in SC2









BTW, are you really encountering that many zerg players in your league? Not sure what race you are playing, but, for protoss, zealots+stalkers as well as storm work really well. For terran, thors for mutalisks and simply marines or marauders for zerglings/roaches/hydras with their upgrades of course, although, you can do without as well


----------



## DoomDash

Muta is the hardest problem for Protoss that Zerg has IMO.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Muta is the hardest problem for Protoss that Zerg has IMO.

Muta is certainly my biggest weakness against zerg when i play protoss. Great unit for map control. I can deal with lings/roaches/hydras pretty easily. Mutas' mobility opens up so many options for zerg since protoss will be busy defending his bases from pesky mutas. Make sure you use guardian shields and have blink. Phoenixes work pretty well too but you need enough to deal with all of those mutas.

Thanks for the rep btw







35 woooot


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Yeah I rarely use hydras, against both terran and protoss i'l go for the Mutalisks. In my mind hydras are just too weak, and the constant harrass and map control with mutalisks is awesome.

Im still a silver league player though







. I did send one of my replays to day9 in the hope it could be featured in newbie tuesday, Id love it if mine was featured







lol

Matt


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
That does sound like a blast. I haven't played any custom games, mostly a couple of league ones but I'll have to check that out sometime, +REP










Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbrown* 
Anyone play the new Phantom minimap/custom game? It's a blast...

It's a FFA with 8 people, one person is a phantom who gets extra money and extra supply limit, but they are trying to not give it away and kill everyone before they do. A game of deception.

I remembered someone mentioning this custom game, tried it out...

Here's a game that I actually won as phantom. I had a phantom teammate (though i didn't know until he was dead) which I at one point helped kill... but stood in the background for most of the game until i had a big enough force to the remaining guys, after they mostly killed each other off XD

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...-win.SC2Replay

In one a game I was phantom, and got to the point of 360 or so max supply, but too many overlords revealed my hand and i got killed, boo


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Muta is the hardest problem for Protoss that Zerg has IMO.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Muta is certainly my biggest weakness against zerg when i play protoss. Great unit for map control. I can deal with lings/roaches/hydras pretty easily. Mutas' mobility opens up so many options for zerg since protoss will be busy defending his bases from pesky mutas. Make sure you use guardian shields and have blink. Phoenixes work pretty well too but you need enough to deal with all of those mutas.

Thanks for the rep btw







35 woooot


Yes, mutalisks are probably the best unit in the game for mobility and harassement. They are inexpensive if one has two bases to get gas as well







One thing that I think you guys are forgetting though, if you built AA around your cc and around the side of your base, it'll be a lot easier dealing with mutalisks. It's like banshees, they are a great air to ground unit, however, if you have AA and an overseer incase they overcloak, their threat can be neutralized









Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Yeah I rarely use hydras, against both terran and protoss i'l go for the Mutalisks. In my mind hydras are just too weak, and the constant harrass and map control with mutalisks is awesome.

Im still a silver league player though







. I did send one of my replays to day9 in the hope it could be featured in newbie tuesday, Id love it if mine was featured







lol

Matt


My thoughts alike, hydras were one of my favourite zerg units in SC1, but, I don't use them anymore. I don't even build a hydralisk den either and use the money for a spire or a nydus worm instead. Interesting idea, maybe I'll send one of mine to him just to see if I get it up, would definitely be interesting though







+REP for idea









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I remembered someone mentioning this custom game, tried it out...

Here's a game that I actually won as phantom. I had a phantom teammate (though i didn't know until he was dead) which I at one point helped kill... but stood in the background for most of the game until i had a big enough force to the remaining guys, after they mostly killed each other off XD

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...-win.SC2Replay

In one a game I was phantom, and got to the point of 360 or so max supply, but too many overlords revealed my hand and i got killed, boo










360 max supply, wow, that's nice. Can you imagine having 180 brood lords descending upon an opponent's base, of course, that would require you to kill all your drones but would be interesting to see


----------



## deanlewandowski

I like Hydralisks for mid-game.
The main thing is that they are very slow off creep.
As long as you can do a good job spreading tumors they become decently mobile.

The thing I like about Hydras is if you are upgrading ranged attacks at the Evo chamber, you are increasing the DPS of your Hydras/ Queens/ Roaches at the same time.
You will need a lot of gas to make these troops, and will probably miss out on making as many Mutalisks, but throw in some Speedlings and you have a decent army.
I usually do this against Protoss more than Terran, and usually in response to Void Rays.


----------



## Nevaziah

I AM very dissapointed in SC2 Hydra mechanics aswell. Im starting to try Muta-zergling to muta-zergling-roach vs terran and protoss. No results yet since I havent had many zerg games (I play random all the way)

I once killed a protoss going for colossi and gateway units with Hydraz and lings. The key is to run by with lings and attack from behind while the hydraz attack from the front. It is VERY INEFECTIVE to use hydraz and lings vs Colossi but i had to keep the guy busy while I saturated the gold expo so eventually I just overran him. Hydra-ling-roach is AT BEST a temporary solution vs protoss unless they are hellbent on going voidrays or starlkers/zealots/immortals/sentries


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I AM very dissapointed in SC2 Hydra mechanics aswell. Im starting to try Muta-zergling to muta-zergling-roach vs terran and protoss. No results yet since I havent had many zerg games (I play random all the way)

I once killed a protoss going for colossi and gateway units with Hydraz and lings. The key is to run by with lings and attack from behind while the hydraz attack from the front. It is VERY INEFECTIVE to use hydraz and lings vs Colossi but i had to keep the guy busy while I saturated the gold expo so eventually I just overran him. Hydra-ling-roach is AT BEST a temporary solution vs protoss unless they are hellbent on going voidrays or starlkers/zealots/immortals/sentries


muta-zergling-roach pretty well if you can keep the opponent busy with the zerglings+roaches while you gather mutalisks to attack their workers and base. My third replays was exactly this and it worked since I was constantly moving between the guy's first and second base taking off his workers+overloads and rendering him unable to build defense. Had he noticed my exp, then he would have cut my mineral and gas intake down a lot since I ran out of minerals and had a pretty undefended exp







I haven't encountered any immortals so far, possibly once in a practice games, but, never in a league game so far


----------



## poroboszcz

For some reason I have much more trouble dealing with hydras than any kind of muta play. 2 cannons at each mineral line effectively shut down any muta harass and protoss has so many things to absolutely own them: stalkers, phoenixes, HTs with storm and archons.

For anyone having problems with mutas try opening with phoenixes, which forces zerg to get hydras, or go 1 gate core expansion into 6 gates and then build mostly stalkers and sentries.

Anyone know where can I watch gsl quarter final matches?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


For some reason I have much more trouble dealing with hydras than any kind of muta play. 2 cannons at each mineral line effectively shut down any muta harass and protoss has so many things to absolutely own them: stalkers, phoenixes, HTs with storm and archons.

For anyone having problems with mutas try opening with phoenixes, which forces zerg to get hydras, or go 1 gate core expansion into 6 gates and then build mostly stalkers and sentries.


well, maybe not 2 cannons if you have like 20 of them but yes, it'll buy you enough time to bring your units for defense. I've won a game against a protoss who was pretty much just pumping out stalkers. A combination of worm containing roaches+zerglings along with mutalisks was enough to take him. He wiped those forces out(zerglings+roach) but my mutalisks were enough to take his stalkers down. Too bad the game froze afterwards and I don't have a replay


----------



## Nevaziah

god, cannons are sooo bad vs hydraz. You preety much have to get them spaced out enough since hydras can actually be microed to backup when one goes low etc. On MOST maps defensive cannons wont work well vs hydras because of the Damage Per Second of the Hydras and the small scale of the unit(which means A LOT hydras will be in range of the same cannon but MULTIPLE cannons rarely are within range of the same 3 or 4 hydras)


----------



## Tchernobyl

the best use i've found for hydras is vs the early air units... mutas, voids, or banshees. Other than that they're rather weak D:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


360 max supply, wow, that's nice. Can you imagine having 180 brood lords descending upon an opponent's base, of course, that would require you to kill all your drones but would be interesting to see










90, actually. Broodlords are 4 supply :X


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=156602

patch 1.1.1 completely screws over ultralisks~ not just fixing the command center bug, changing the cleave range too. GG blizz :/


----------



## thiagocosta85

New patch is some what a fail because:

New hacks are doable (were'nt doable before)

1) Protoss can now turn lighs off ('like sc1) and stack cannons.
2) Zerg can now Queen Auto Lava hack. (since previous patch)
3) Ghost can now Nuke Anywhere again. (since this patch)
4) Warden is not doing anything helpful, waste of code to even use space in memory. (never was affective)
5) Each patch used to take me 2 hours + to find new MAPHACK offsets, this new one took me less than 10 minutes to find all the above offsets. *** ! AHAHAHAHAH ... No fun with olly dbg.

6)Poor ultralisks.

7) I will submit all of this info to blizzard along with working source code so they can fight this.

--I HATE CHEATERS--


----------



## yellowtoblerone

whats wrong with ultras? They passively took out my DT's just because they dt's were attacking them while they were taking out buildings.

Stalkers vs muta ling, loose every time. If you have the time and resources to go phoenix or templars, they have the time to tech to brood or ultras. They will always out resource you because so much of your income is spent on building stalkers vs the mobile muta harass.


----------



## Tchernobyl




----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


whats wrong with ultras? They passively took out my DT's just because they dt's were attacking them while they were taking out buildings.

Stalkers vs muta ling, loose every time. If you have the time and resources to go phoenix or templars, they have the time to tech to brood or ultras. They will always out resource you because so much of your income is spent on building stalkers vs the mobile muta harass.


True...
Each one has an opinion on in game properties...

But the game hack protection is just wack.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

was last patch trying to fix exploit/hacks?

Yeah ultras need love versus terran. Vs protoss they pwn.


----------



## Tchernobyl

patch 1.1 (the bigger one) made it so that ultras can cleave with buildings, instead of ram. Which lead to a bug where they had a HUGE range... ultras on one side of a command center could kill scv on the other side of it.

patch 1.1.1 really cut that range, so with a tiny bit of micro, you can move stuff like thors (which ultras counter) out of range so that they dont get cleaved, etc... read the first post of that thread to see what i mean


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


was last patch trying to fix exploit/hacks?

Yeah ultras need love versus terran. Vs protoss they pwn.


Yeah they do that in Every patch... every patch requires hackers to reprogram...

But they just move offfets nothing else.. (trying to hide_


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


patch 1.1 (the bigger one) made it so that ultras can cleave with buildings, instead of ram. Which lead to a bug where they had a HUGE range... ultras on one side of a command center could kill scv on the other side of it.

patch 1.1.1 really cut that range, so with a tiny bit of micro, you can move stuff like thors (which ultras counter) out of range so that they dont get cleaved, etc... read the first post of that thread to see what i mean










Ultras can only counter thors if there is no bio ball or other large force in front. They are only good for countering mass thors, otherwise they just die before getting to them since any half decent player will have thors in the back..

The range was way too high for the Ultralisk attack. You could literally slice through 5 rows of units with 3 Ultralisk.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what is this "offset" thing exactly?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


patch 1.1 (the bigger one) made it so that ultras can cleave with buildings, instead of ram. Which lead to a bug where they had a HUGE range... ultras on one side of a command center could kill scv on the other side of it.

patch 1.1.1 really cut that range, so with a tiny bit of micro, you can move stuff like thors (which ultras counter) out of range so that they dont get cleaved, etc... read the first post of that thread to see what i mean










Yeah I read it. Can understand the issue, its a z v t issue. z v p the ultras still rape.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Yeah I read it. Can understand the issue, its a z v t issue. z v p the ultras still rape.


hmm, you seem to be forgetting colossus, having said that, one on one, ultralisks win but having something like a zealot in the front would negate that and allow the protoss to take it, I would think


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, you seem to be forgetting colossus, having said that, one on one, ultralisks win but having something like a zealot in the front would negate that and allow the protoss to take it, I would think










Just ignore the zealot? Why would you attack the Zealot when it would have to get in melee range to attack. If you can micro, you can kill both at the same time with the splash damage.

The solution for ZvT is to not use Ultras if they have units that can kill ultras easily.. Just like everything else in the game.

I don't really see how that matchup comes into play all that often. You would have thors out way before Ultras unless the zerg were rushing to them. In that case the T would just rush the Zerg because they couldn't possibly have anything to defend since Ultras are a huge investment.

If Zerg had Ultras out first it would mean no Muta and the T could just mass Marauders w/stim and clean up.. I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed like it's a huge deal.


----------



## DoomDash

Ultras will still be good.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


Just ignore the zealot? Why would you attack the Zealot when it would have to get in melee range to attack. If you can micro, you can kill both at the same time with the splash damage.
*My point was that the colossus would stay in the back picking off the ultralisks as it engages the zealot. yes, it can ignore the zealot, but, not so if there are a couple surrounding it. The zealot was just an example though







*

The solution for ZvT is to not use Ultras if they have units that can kill ultras easily.. Just like everything else in the game.
*Of course, I mean if they have stalkers then using ultralisks against those since they can blink would be a bad idea







*

I don't really see how that matchup comes into play all that often. You would have thors out way before Ultras unless the zerg were rushing to them. In that case the T would just rush the Zerg because they couldn't possibly have anything to defend since Ultras are a huge investment.
*Ultralisks require lots of gas and minerals like a thor does, however, you could have zerglings accompany them so that they can take down any marauders, etc.... You seem to forget that while they are a huge investment, you are still getting minerals and gas constantly meaning that you could continue pumping out zerglings, roaches, hydras, mutalisks, etc.... to support the ultralisks







*

If Zerg had Ultras out first it would mean no Muta and the T could just mass Marauders w/stim and clean up.. I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed like it's a huge deal. 
*You could still build ultralisks and mutalisks as well, maybe not in a large number but I've done in one of my games. You could build some mutalisks while teching to ultralisks as well







It all comes down to how much you have expanded in the game, obviously 2 or more bases with saturated mineral and gas would mean a lot of resources that can be used







*


Check bold for reply









Edit: Just realized something. I was looking at some old zerg trailers and there were a couple of things I noticed. They used to have lurkers back then, also the queen design was totally different, corruptors used to take over units, so, imagine having a couple take over bc and how that would change the gameplay. Also, zerglings seem to hop instead of run now, lol. Anyways, corruptor was definitely OP back then, but, why take out lurkers? They used to get great to play with in BW especially if tech'd to them quickly, they would have been great against bioballs especially when combined with some roaches and zerglings


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ultras eat zealots so quickly. stalkers are also no match with mutas as well. Colossus vs ultras? lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
ultras eat zealots so quickly. stalkers are also no match with mutas as well. Colossus vs ultras? lol.

Yes, but, that's not the point. What I meant to say is to have a barrier between the ultra and colossus using zealots, stalkers, etc..... Besides, immortals are the best unit against ultras due to their shield and dark templars are great if the opponent doesn't bring an overseer. Also, if micro'd correctly, a colossus can probably beat an ultra. Example, get a couple of hits then move to high ground, back and forth, eventually you'll take the ultra down and probably lost a decent chunk of your hp as well. These are just examples, not necessary that they will work against a good opponent though


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Check bold for reply









Edit: Just realized something. I was looking at some old zerg trailers and there were a couple of things I noticed. They used to have lurkers back then, also the queen design was totally different, corruptors used to take over units, so, imagine having a couple take over bc and how that would change the gameplay. Also, zerglings seem to hop instead of run now, lol. Anyways, corruptor was definitely OP back then, but, why take out lurkers? They used to get great to play with in BW especially if tech'd to them quickly, they would have been great against bioballs especially when combined with some roaches and zerglings









The roach is to blame for the death of the lurker.

Old roach: 30hp per sec regen rate above ground. 1 supply. 2 armor.

later on: 15hp/s, with +10hp/s regen as an upgrade, above ground. Though this might be the "old roach", i'm not sure 100%. However, the following...

later on: roach regen nerfed several times. Is now underground only, and 10hp/s.
roach now costs 2 supply.
Roach now has 1 armor.

the OLD roach is why people didn't use lurkers. The roach did everything it was supposed to, especially when it could burrow move (I'm not sure when that came in, though).

They removed the lurker. They nerfed the roach into near oblivion, so the role is now empty. And they DID NOT put the lurker back in. So that role it was playing? There's a void in there, and i don't mean a void ray~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
The roach is to blame for the death of the lurker.

Old roach: 30hp per sec regen rate above ground. 1 supply. 2 armor.

later on: 15hp/s, with +10hp/s regen as an upgrade, above ground. Though this might be the "old roach", i'm not sure 100%. However, the following...

later on: roach regen nerfed several times. Is now underground only, and 10hp/s.
roach now costs 2 supply.
Roach now has 1 armor.

the OLD roach is why people didn't use lurkers. The roach did everything it was supposed to, especially when it could burrow move (I'm not sure when that came in, though).

They removed the lurker. They nerfed the roach into near oblivion, so the role is now empty. And they DID NOT put the lurker back in. So that role it was playing? There's a void in there, and i don't mean a void ray~

lol, but, wow, 25hp/s when upgraded above ground, that would have made for one crazy unit, would have loved to play beta to see that







I'm kinda disappointed that the lurkers aren't coming back. I loved to upgrade quickly to lurkers and then place a couple near the front of my base. It made people think twice about entering which gave me time to tech up, etc..... Looking back at the zerg trailer, it seems that they were much stronger back then in comparison to now, but, then again, they are still the same units minus a few, so, it's likely the change in specs that did the difference.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Lurkers would be *excellent* as a tier 2.5 unit, before ultras and broodlords are fielded. They'd be something that could hold a choke point or create better surprise attacks (and hell, be our unit that can attack from stealth. cough ghost dark templar cough). Right now, chokes are just about always in favor of toss/terran.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Well I'm still in Bronze league, but have gone up about 20 places and I'm rated #9 in my league.
Thanks to everyone who has given me help with Zerg on the forums!

The only thing I still have problems with is having too many unspent resources.
I'll get to the point where I have two bases, and have about 1000 unspent resources both minerals and gas.
I pump units and Overlords as fast as I can, but I just don't have enough larvae to spend the money.
I sometimes end up building a second Hatchery at my main just to have more larvae.
I'm not missing any injections with my Queens, so am I not spending enough on buildings?
I'll watch some more Pro replays to see what I can do. I want to be like Sen. In the replays I've seen, he NEVER has more than 100 gas/ minerals, even in the middle of combat hes spending/ building.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Well I'm still in Bronze league, but have gone up about 20 places and I'm rated #9 in my league.
Thanks to everyone who has given me help with Zerg on the forums!

The only thing I still have problems with is having too many unspent resources.
I'll get to the point where I have two bases, and have about 1000 unspent resources both minerals and gas.
I pump units and Overlords as fast as I can, but I just don't have enough larvae to spend the money.
I sometimes end up building a second Hatchery at my main just to have more larvae.
I'm not missing any injections with my Queens, so am I not spending enough on buildings?
I'll watch some more Pro replays to see what I can do. I want to be like Sen. In the replays I've seen, he NEVER has more than 100 gas/ minerals, even in the middle of combat hes spending/ building.

Get an expo, in base hatch, UPGRADE (very important for longer games) with your unspent money


----------



## BigFan

As a tier 2.5 unit, it would definitely be great. I mean we needed a lair for lurkers in SC1 as I recall and why change that?









@deanlewandowski My advice is to make another expansion and then just use the money to make more defense, after all, it's 100 mineral for one spine crawler and they are good for exp if you have your main force concentrated at one base. Get all upgrade(attack, armor, abilities, etc....) and constantly pumping out units. If I find myself reaching high, then I just pump out mutalisks or zerglings if I don't have much gas


----------



## Nevaziah

WHos up for some games? Add me up (Nevaziah, character code 101)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
WHos up for some games? Add me up (Nevaziah, character code 101)

I am unfortunately, not sure how to add people though


----------



## DoomDash

Adding people is pretty easy and something you should probably learn lol. Just click add friend ( bottom right ), then click "Add a character friend". Add the ID, and then the code of the player you want to add.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Adding people is pretty easy and something you should probably learn lol. Just click add friend ( bottom right ), then click "Add a character friend". Add the ID, and then the code of the player you want to add.

Is that the same as the real id thing or different, because, I really dislike using real id







I'm guessing character friends is one option there, but, then what about the real id thing? I thought that if you add someone, it displays their full name.

P.S. Just case I didn't mention, I've added friends but they were automatic, just not sure if this method(character friend) is the same as the real id thing


----------



## DoomDash

The only way you see full names is if you add someones email address, or if you add them using the facebook friend finder.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
The only way you see full names is if you add someones email address, or if you add them using the facebook friend finder.

oh, ok, thanks for clearing that up, +REPS


----------



## Nevaziah

Strangely enough, my facebook option doesnt work. I typed in email and password and it gives me "UNKNOWN ERROR"

Not much I can do if I dont even know what the problem is, now, is there, eh? Blizzard? *shakes fist


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Strangely enough, my facebook option doesnt work. I typed in email and password and it gives me "UNKNOWN ERROR"

Not much I can do if I dont even know what the problem is, now, is there, eh? Blizzard? *shakes fist









actually, with FB, when I went into MP the first time, it automatically asked me if I wanted to add a friend of mine. I think it was because I just had recently logged into FB but I don't use it much


----------



## DoomDash

I love the facebook friend finder. I hear people like Tasteless complain about it saying they don't want to add their FB friends / play them in SC2. Why the hell not? At least that's how I feel. I love playing with friends.


----------



## Epona

So, I just played a 4v4 match, won the match, and got the Hot Shot achievement... I'm confused. Anyone know what this is for?


----------



## DoomDash

If you click your achievements button at the main battle.net menu it will show you the latest achievements you'd earned. You can also look at your own profile / achievements on battle.net.

I think it's 5-0 in placements? Soemthing like that.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Check bold for reply









Edit: Just realized something. I was looking at some old zerg trailers and there were a couple of things I noticed. They used to have lurkers back then, also the queen design was totally different, corruptors used to take over units, so, imagine having a couple take over bc and how that would change the gameplay. Also, zerglings seem to hop instead of run now, lol. Anyways, corruptor was definitely OP back then, but, why take out lurkers? They used to get great to play with in BW especially if tech'd to them quickly, they would have been great against bioballs especially when combined with some roaches and zerglings









Your situation had 1 zealot. Obviously more would be different. Even still Ultras slice them up so quickly and colossi don't do much against Ultras, soo....

And I see your bold, and you would have to be playing someone who just turtles to accomplish that. any decent player is going to be pressuring or do something other then just sitting there letting you make mutas and ultras.

Also ultras are great against stalkers if you use infestors with fungal. They die pretty quickly.

Which league are you in?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956* 
Your situation had 1 zealot. Obviously more would be different. Even still Ultras slice them up so quickly and colossi don't do much against Ultras, soo....
*I know it did but I was trying to give an example of how if you can hold back an ultralisk, you can then use the range of a colossus against it to do some damage before the ultralisks reaches the colossus







*

And I see your bold, and you would have to be playing someone who just turtles to accomplish that. any decent player is going to be pressuring or do something other then just sitting there letting you make mutas and ultras.
*Of course, a good player would constantly harass his opponent instead of leaving him to mass ultras+mutalisks. I had to do that in several of my games and I kept on the pressure eventually winning







*

Also ultras are great against stalkers if you use infestors with fungal. They die pretty quickly.
*Yes, they would, however, if there is no infestor. Then you can hit the ultra and blink a distance away for another couple of hits, rinse and repeat. This is obviously one scenarioand there would be other units besides ultralisks







*

Which league are you in?

Silver ATM, only been playing for a couple of days(6 according to sc2 website)


----------



## Nevaziah

Sent an email to b=net tech support about my facebook problem. Lets see what happens.
In the meantime, ranked 3rd in my division!
50 moar points and im first!!


----------



## DoomDash

I'm @ 1013 points and I'm only 71st in mine!


----------



## BigFan

113 points and ranked 39, however, I've only played so many games unlike you guys


----------



## yellowtoblerone

rofl since we're talking about rankings, in my plat league there's no tos in the top 10, i'm sitting at 14 and there's only 1 tos around 12 or so above me. Rest of the top ten is zerg terran and 2 randoms.


----------



## Tchernobyl

rank 5 gold with 933 points! I've been stuck on gold for ****ing ever... been in the top 10 forever, and have been #1 several times, but i just can't jump up a league


----------



## DoomDash

I can play on your account for a day if you want to get up in leagues







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

nah, i'm just wondering what kind of threshold i need to pass to go up. as in, do i need more wins, more points, etc etc, what? Several times i've won enough that i figure i SHOULD have gone up but didn't...


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know. I'm more confused about the guys in Platinum who have 200 wins and are #1 in their division 1000+. Why aren't those guys in Diamond yet?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
nah, i'm just wondering what kind of threshold i need to pass to go up. as in, do i need more wins, more points, etc etc, what? Several times i've won enough that i figure i SHOULD have gone up but didn't...










Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't know. I'm more confused about the guys in Platinum who have 200 wins and are #1 in their division 1000+. Why aren't those guys in Diamond yet?

I think the system isn't ironed out yet, because, I would assume that if you have a certain number of wins/losses and points, then you should move up


----------



## DoomDash

Well you can get into Diamond with less than 30 games played pretty easy... so there has to be more reasons than just the number or wins or losses. Probably have to beat X amount of Diamond players to get into Diamond.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well you can get into Diamond with less than 30 games played pretty easy... so there has to be more reasons than just the number or wins or losses. Probably have to beat X amount of Diamond players to get into Diamond.

Maybe, but, then what happens if you lost to x amount of diamond players, do you get depromoted back to platinum? I've been winning and losing game and have about a 50% win to loss ratio, some of those games were when I started and wasn't building much defense, so, I could have won those if I replayed them(obviously can't). Point is, it can't be as simple as winning x games vs. a diamond player or losing x amount of games. Having said that, at one point, I was up against a gold player, but, don't recall playing against another since then, so, maybe your theory holds some merit, kind of test the waters for a promotion up


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't know. I'm more confused about the guys in Platinum who have 200 wins and are #1 in their division 1000+. Why aren't those guys in Diamond yet?

Haha, I wish I knew. 1000 points rank 1 platinum, 2nd guy in my division is almost 200 behind me and I play against diamond regularly. Rarely play more then 3-5 games a day though.

I don't feel like I'm a decent player though so I guess I'm fairly placed at the moment.


----------



## DoomDash

When I played you, you seemed fine. I would guess Platinum I think, or lower # Diamond.

And I don't know how it works for getting demoted either. I know that my Diamond division is old as hell and was full before, but a couple new players have showed up in it recently, replacing some players. I don't see anyone below 50% w/l ratio in Diamond.


----------



## DoomDash

*Start rant*

I don't want to start an argument in the LoL thread so I'll post this here. I hate LoL. Screw that game, it sucks, and I can't comprehend the appeal. My friends are all playing that over SCII because they don't get super pissed when they lose in it, and its easy to get good at. What a lame reason to play a game. I hate you LoL, your nothing but a scrubby UMS.

*End Rant*


----------



## poroboszcz

I was pretty bad random player when we last played to be honest without any solid build orders etc. When I look at these games now I'd say I was about gold lol. 2 gates expand against 3 rax? No detection at all? Running into EMPs with all the sentries?









I got to top 10 plat quite fast playing random then got to rank 1 after switching to protoss and have been there for about a month now. I play a lot practice games against diamond opponents and I'm doing fine on ladder, but then I'll occasionally loose to some gold level cheese. So I guess I'll stay in plat until I can start winning consistently.


----------



## DoomDash

I've lost to Platinum players a couple times myself







. Never lost to a gold or below though, and hopefully never will.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Haha, I wish I knew. 1000 points rank 1 platinum, 2nd guy in my division is almost 200 behind me and I play against diamond regularly. Rarely play more then 3-5 games a day though.

I don't feel like I'm a decent player though so I guess I'm fairly placed at the moment.

That's the same situation I was in a couple of days ago. I was ~980 Platinum with a 56%-ish win percentage as Random. I went on a 4-1 stretch against a few Diamond players the other day and finally got promoted.

No idea what the specifics are, but from what I've heard everyone has a "hidden skill rating" that is used to calculate league promotion and relegation. It's more about who you beat than how many games you win, especially if you're cleaning up against lower-tier players yet struggling against the league above yours.


----------



## BigFan

Personally, I do believe that I have the game down, just need more experience and to play more games. Also, while I am mostly playing zerg ATM, I would like to switch to being random, since, sc2's appeal to me is playing all three races and not just concentrating on one. Plan to make the switch once I get a bit better with my zerg builds


----------



## DoomDash

I'm uploading the latest 1.1.1 bug







. Will be up on my youtube soon.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm uploading the latest 1.1.1 bug







. Will be up on my youtube soon.

bug? you mean the fact that AOE is much less for ultralisk than before?


----------



## DoomDash

Nope, not that.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think it's designed to be that way. I think they want to make sure the people they promote is really too good for the current league. I had to get a string of wins and was sitting at 1 for around a few days before they got me into plat. But I don't play a lot.

the atomatron survived the battle:


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube





Video still processing as I posted this.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what. no 1080p?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 

Video still processing as I posted this.


----------



## BigFan

Interesting, could be useful against toss players








Seriously though, we should probably start a message on the forums about this


----------



## DoomDash

Did I mention the last Ultralisk bug video I put up was posted as news on the main page of SC2replayed?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/pages/sta...-ultralisk-bug

I emailed one of the admins this one and he will be putting this up too







.

If you guys find anything cool let me know.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Did I mention the last Ultralisk bug video I put up was posted as news on the main page of SC2replayed?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/pages/sta...-ultralisk-bug

I emailed one of the admins this one and he will be putting this up too







.

If you guys find anything cool let me know.

Nice


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't know. I'm more confused about the guys in Platinum who have 200 wins and are #1 in their division 1000+. Why aren't those guys in Diamond yet?

One of my buddies has over 1k points and is 1st in plat and has been stuck there for 3 weeks


----------



## yellowtoblerone

so that 7% mineral trick has been "fixed" eh?


----------



## DoomDash

Yep.


----------



## BigFan

Yes, it was fixed


----------



## DoomDash

Listening to the latest state of the game podcast, idrA might switch to protoss.!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL rage in protoss language instead?


----------



## DoomDash

Would anyone Diamond like to play tonight?


----------



## thiru

Fun FFA VOD with Huk TLO Ret Nazgul Tyler Jinro Heosat










http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txn0KC14rM0&feature=player_embedded


----------



## DoomDash

Started to watch and I realized I can't watch FFA's, 2v2's ect. yawn.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Started to watch and I realized I can't watch FFA's, 2v2's ect. yawn.

FFA are fun with friends.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean I can play FFA's, but they are generally a joke. Not fun for me unless I'm doing it ( like playing around ).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

fun video

i saw it few hours ago. nice to see mass carriers work for a few minutes


----------



## DoomDash

Round of 8 up:
http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Round of 8 up:
http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/


Those take forever to upload. It seems all of the ones on youtube got shut down again. Anyone know where to watch the semis?


----------



## GodofGrunts

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Start rant*

I don't want to start an argument in the LoL thread so I'll post this here. I hate LoL. Screw that game, it sucks, and I can't comprehend the appeal. My friends are all playing that over SCII because they don't get super pissed when they lose in it, and its easy to get good at. What a lame reason to play a game. I hate you LoL, your nothing but a scrubby UMS.

*End Rant*

I just can't seem to find anything I like about you. LoL is a great game. Easy to learn, hard to master, so much teamwork required. You just like to do everything yourself.


----------



## puzzledazn

LoL is a game if you got a crappy teammate that = GG already... and that game can go on MUCH longer than a sc2. I no longer play LoL, because I feel that playing sc2, I can juggle my time better, but on LoL, if you're playing against good people... it can last 30 mins +


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
I just can't seem to find anything I like about you. LoL is a great game. Easy to learn, hard to master, so much teamwork required. You just like to do everything yourself.

Hehehe, I guess thats where the two of you (and you and me) diverge. I tend to agree with Dash about 99% of the time. I play team games like Unreal Tournament III, Left for Dead I and II and sometimes starcraft team games. HOWEVER, I tend to master games VERY quickly. I am very patient with my teammates and with my opponents but I play a LOT more competitively than most people and I have fun doing so than most people! I love learning knew strategies/counters/techniques or just improving or using old ones in a new perspective.

To me if I'm not improving at whatever im doing, then there is almost no point in doing it, but i have a LOT of fun doing so anyways. As for starcraft, that explains why i have 200 so 1v1 games and maybe, what, 4 team games?

Dash sounds liek someone Id like to have on my L4D(team vs) or SC2 team (2v2, 3v3, 4v4)
*There is a firm difference between confidence and arrogance.* So far, he has not passed it yet as far as I can tell


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Hehehe, I guess thats where the two of you (and you and me) diverge. I tend to agree with Dash about 99% of the time. I play team games like Unreal Tournament III, Left for Dead I and II and sometimes starcraft team games. HOWEVER, I tend to master games VERY quickly. I am very patient with my teammates and with my opponents but I play a LOT more competitively than most people and I have fun doing so than most people! I love learning knew strategies/counters/techniques or just improving or using old ones in a new perspective.

To me if I'm not improving at whatever im doing, then there is almost no point in doing it, but i have a LOT of fun doing so anyways. As for starcraft, that explains why i have 200 so 1v1 games and maybe, what, 4 team games?

Dash sounds liek someone Id like to have on my L4D(team vs) or SC2 team (2v2, 3v3, 4v4)
*There is a firm difference between confidence and arrogance.* So far, he has not passed it yet as far as I can tell











Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
I just can't seem to find anything I like about you. LoL is a great game. Easy to learn, hard to master, so much teamwork required. You just like to do everything yourself.

I'm not for everyone. I say what I believe even if it might piss some people off. IRL I'm super duper nice I just am very opinionated.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GodofGrunts* 
I just can't seem to find anything I like about you. LoL is a great game. Easy to learn, hard to master, so much teamwork required. You just like to do everything yourself.











Personally, never tried LoL, so, can't comment. Like Nevaziah, I try to play SC2 competitively, since, I never did in SC1 and I would like to end up in plat or diamond eventually, but, I also play to have fun and winning a tough game is always great. Time for some SC2 now. Anyone wanna join?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 









Personally, never tried LoL, so, can't comment. Like Nevaziah, I try to play SC2 competitively, since, I never did in SC1 and I would like to end up in plat or diamond eventually, but, I also play to have fun and winning a tough game is always great. Time for some SC2 now. Anyone wanna join?









Im down for a game in 20 minutes


----------



## Nevaziah

Im down in 40 minutes maybe







(long bus ride home from work)


----------



## BigFan

np, guys. Just finished my game vs. protoss and won but the game froze. Means I lost the replay














Yes, I'll be going back on in 30-40 min or so, so, I'm sure we can at least catch one game


----------



## Intricate09

Hey all. I've dipped into this thread a few times, but first replay... I play 'toss and would appreciate it if some of the more experienced toss players could take a look at my play and give me some tips? I am only in bronze, so I obviously have a long way to go, and would love any help from all you gold/platinum/diamond players.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup

P.S. Is there a better way to upload for others to see, so I can get critique without people having to DL the replay?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 

P.S. Is there a better way to upload for others to see, so I can get critique without people having to DL the replay?

Not really with out FRAPs.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 
Hey all. I've dipped into this thread a few times, but first replay... I play 'toss and would appreciate it if some of the more experienced toss players could take a look at my play and give me some tips? I am only in bronze, so I obviously have a long way to go, and would love any help from all you gold/platinum/diamond players.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup

P.S. Is there a better way to upload for others to see, so I can get critique without people having to DL the replay?

Send out your scouting probe after your pylon at 9 or after your gateway. You sent it out too early. Queue your probe to go back to mining after building a structure. Use hotkeys so you can macro while you micro your scouting probe. Use your chrono more often and sooner. You had 100 energy at the start of the game. Never stop producing probes especially in the beginning of the game.

Make a unit out of that gateway that you built even if you are teching to air. Research the warp gates even if you guy air because it's cheap and you will need to use it later. Dont attack with one void rays. Wait until you have AT LEAST 2 or they will be very useless if your opponent has stalkers around. Dont let your void ray die, they are expensive to make. Try to keep them alive as long as possible.

I also dont like going void rays against protoss because stalkers kill very easily in small numbers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 
Hey all. I've dipped into this thread a few times, but first replay... I play 'toss and would appreciate it if some of the more experienced toss players could take a look at my play and give me some tips? I am only in bronze, so I obviously have a long way to go, and would love any help from all you gold/platinum/diamond players.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup



Poor spending. When you have 150 after your first pylon you want that gateway to go down asap.

Not hotkeys or control groups. This is HUGE. Set your nexus to a hot key, your probe at the watch tower, your production buildings, your army, ect.

Hidden expansion is a gimmick. You had no reason for it really. Much easier to defend an expansion at your natural.

Mass void rays is easily countered by anybody with a brain. I would recommend not doing that ever unless the person you play against is doing something even worse. Best to play standard though as you learn from that.

Less passive / defensive. Wayyy too many cannons...

Get observers.

Probably a ton more but thats a start.


----------



## Intricate09

Thank you guys.







I'll try to keep that all in mind (it's a lot o.o) from now on. I appreciate it.


----------



## BigFan

I haven't watched it yet, but, by I would recommend against the hidden exp as well. Most opponent scout so if you don't have some good d there, it's all over for that exp. Better to have near your base and defend it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I haven't watched it yet, but, by I would recommend against the hidden exp as well. Most opponent scout so if you don't have some good d there, it's all over for that exp. Better to have near your base and defend it









Yes against me you tried hidden expos every game







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Intricate09* 
Hey all. I've dipped into this thread a few times, but first replay... I play 'toss and would appreciate it if some of the more experienced toss players could take a look at my play and give me some tips? I am only in bronze, so I obviously have a long way to go, and would love any help from all you gold/platinum/diamond players.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...defined;markup

P.S. Is there a better way to upload for others to see, so I can get critique without people having to DL the replay?

You need to get your build order down and you need to constantly produce probes from your nexus. If you hot key your nexus to, say, 4, you can just press 4e once in a while to make probes wihtout even looking at it. Don't send your first probe out so early. About 9 food is the earliest you want to send it, but it's generally better to send it around 16. Try the following build order:

9 pylon
12 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon (send probe to scout)
17 cybernetics core
18 gas
19 zealot
22 warp gate tech
22 stalker or sentry

After that you can build another gateway, stargate or robotics facility around 25-27 food and you should be constantly making probes and units. Then add another gateway around 31 food or just as soon as you have 150 minerals to spend. Now try doing this build in every game for next 20 games or even against medium AI in custom games. If at any point you have not enough resources to build something or you have more that just enough to build it you're probably doing something wrong. Make sure you send your probe back to minerals as soon as you build something (you can do it with shift, e.g. b,e,shift, click minerals) and that you send probes to gas as soon as assimilator is build.

After that just make a lot stuff, always produce probes, keep your money as low as possible and expand often.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yes against me you tried hidden expos every game







.

lol, yes, I tried it possibly 2 from 3 games. I still do it every once in a while, but, I mostly expand near my base and build some solid defense now. My gameplay has improved since then as well









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You need to get your build order down and you need to constantly produce probes from your nexus. If you hot key your nexus to, say, 4, you can just press 4e once in a while to make probes wihtout even looking at it. Don't send your first probe out so early. About 9 food is the earliest you want to send it, but it's generally better to send it around 16. Try the following build order:

9 pylon
12 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon (send probe to scout)
17 cybernetics core
18 gas
19 zealot
22 warp gate tech
22 stalker or sentry

After that you can build another gateway, stargate or robotics facility around 25-27 food and you should be constantly making probes and units. Then add another gateway around 31 food or just as soon as you have 150 minerals to spend. Now try doing this build in every game for next 20 games or even against medium AI in custom games. If at any point you have not enough resources to build something or you have more that just enough to build it you're probably doing something wrong. Make sure you send your probe back to minerals as soon as you build something (you can do it with shift, e.g. b,e,shift, click minerals) and that you send probes to gas as soon as assimilator is build.

After that just make a lot stuff, always produce probes, keep your money as low as possible and expand often.

You guys shouldn't rely on a build order. What I mean is that you should have a good starting point then the rest should be up to as in you could build 2 gateways, extractor then core or built 2 extractors. Maybe you want to build a forge instead and build some cannons near the entrance and around your base? My point is to get a good starting point and then think about what you plan to attack with, etc.... and start building and gathering more resources. To me, it makes the game more fun because you aren't sticking to a specific list because then it's pretty repetitive and where's the fun in that







In my case, I've been experimenting with different starting points and while my latest one is probably my best, it'll leave me vulnerable if I don't make fast defense









Just had 2 more zerg games. Lucky for me no rush, but, as mentioned above, my starting point was a bit off key since in my first game, I made some defense but they were with my exp and my opponent just ran his zerglings right through due to their range, oops







Suffice to say, it was a struggle after that, while I was trying to recover and build units(roaches+zerglings mostly), he already had roaches, hydras and eventually moved to mutalisks and it was GG from there. My second one wasn't as bad and it was pretty interesting but definitely challenging


----------



## jrgull13

Take the build order and futz with it any way you want







find what works best for you


----------



## DoomDash

Semi finals up!! omg u must watch ( at least cools are ).

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
You guys shouldn't rely on a build order. What I mean is that you should have a good starting point then the rest should be up to as in you could build 2 gateways, extractor then core or built 2 extractors. Maybe you want to build a forge instead and build some cannons near the entrance and around your base? My point is to get a good starting point and then think about what you plan to attack with, etc.... and start building and gathering more resources. To me, it makes the game more fun because you aren't sticking to a specific list because then it's pretty repetitive and where's the fun in that







In my case, I've been experimenting with different starting points and while my latest one is probably my best, it'll leave me vulnerable if I don't make fast defense









And build order is exactly that. A good starting point. It's like an opening in chess or go, or most strategic games. I agree that blindly learning a build order isn't the best thing to do, but if you would just apply basic principles of the game, trying to get necessary units as soon as possible, taking into account possible attacks that may come at any given time, while constantly making probes and spending all your money, this is what you'd eventually end up it. And repetition is the best way to improve, up to the point where you don't even have to think about basics and can focus on other stuff, which is more fun.

It's like playing an instrument. You first learn notes and scales, and just practice boring stuff, but once you master it, you can play whatever you want.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't use build orders. Maybe I should, but I just get a feel for it and play.


----------



## poroboszcz

So you go like 10 depot, 15 rax, 21 two engineering bays in one game and then 7 rax, 9 rafinery, 10 command center in another? Interesting. I'd swear I saw some kind of returning patterns in your games though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
And build order is exactly that. A good starting point. It's like an opening in chess or go, or most strategic games. I agree that blindly learning a build order isn't the best thing to do, but if you would just apply basic principles of the game, trying to get necessary units as soon as possible, taking into account possible attacks that may come at any given time, while constantly making probes and spending all your money, this is what you'd eventually end up it. And repetition is the best way to improve, up to the point where you don't even have to think about basics and can focus on other stuff, which is more fun.

It's like playing an instrument. You first learn notes and scales, and just practice boring stuff, but once you master it, you can play whatever you want.

Yes and no. What I mean is that the first couple of steps. In my case, I build drones till 10, do another drone with extractor trick, get a couple of overloads, some more drones, then pool. From there, I might get zerglings, queen, crawlers, gas, etc.... There is no order for this, for me, it's only up to the pool that it's pretty similar in every game, otherwise, I might just build no defense and jump straight to spire taking a risk. It's the beauty of the game, I can build any structure provided I have the required structure upgrade(lair or hive).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't use build orders. Maybe I should, but I just get a feel for it and play.

Same here, just get a feel for what works and use it and so far, my game has improved tremendusly from when I first played some of those practice games. I am able to concentrate on several things at once. In one of my games against a terran today, I used burrowed roaches to infiltrate his base and move them near his cc. Mass some zerglings and like 20 mutalisks, then I used the zerglings to take his exp near his base, unburrowed roaches to take his cc and scv down as well as used my mutalisks for support. This is the key of game I wanna play using both flying and ground units


----------



## DoomDash

Well I should clarify. I use a build order in the very beginning until about 15 supply. From there it depends on the match up / plan.


----------



## DoomDash

4 more games till I get my tank icon







. I wish I was closer to my ghost icon







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Nexus Word Wars is...crazy.

Basically it's a nexus wars map, but to kill the enemy units (or at least, one shot them, as units will kill each other by firing at each other) you have to type out the word above their head (or basic math such as small multiplication or addition etc). the bigger (more expensive) the unit, the harder/longer the word is. team game, 3v3.

It's crazy fun XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Nexus Word Wars is...crazy.

Basically it's a nexus wars map, but to kill the enemy units (or at least, one shot them, as units will kill each other by firing at each other) you have to type out the word above their head (or basic math such as small multiplication or addition etc). the bigger (more expensive) the unit, the harder/longer the word is. team game, 3v3.

It's crazy fun XD

That sounds interesting. I have yet to try custom games, since, I've been focusing on moving up the ladder. I'm now rank 35 and going up, but, it's gonna be pretty difficult to become the first or so due to needing >1000 points and unless I get a lot of wins, I'll drop back down with each loss :/


----------



## Tchernobyl

after pretty much being stuck in upper gold, and not going up in rank (even after fighting plenty of plats, i've checked!), i've investigated custom maps more, and some of them are really really fun. Desert Strike, Phantom Mode, and Nexus Word Wars are my favorites so far.


----------



## BigFan

Just watched oGs.Chita(P) vs. oGs.Mystic(Z) and wow what an epic fight. The use of nydus worms was unprecedented. I was amazed that at one point, chita had something like 24 high templars and he was spamming so much storms that he almost took out something like 30 roaches. Mystic would then burrow them and move them away while they regenerate. It got to the point where tier 3 was reached and he was using something like 8 ultras along with brood lords. Definitely an interesting match to watch for those who play zerg







One other thing that surprised me is how he was constantly pulling his units out of the battle. I understand that its a good idea to move them away to avoid storm however there were cases where it seemed that it would have been wiser to just stay in and fight


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
So you go like 10 depot, 15 rax, 21 two engineering bays in one game and then 7 rax, 9 rafinery, 10 command center in another? Interesting. I'd swear I saw some kind of returning patterns in your games though.

Have you been playing on US? Blinker 868 on US 95X Diamond? See you posting on scarena







.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Need help from any of the Zerg players here:
How do you deal with another Zerg going 6 Pool and rushing you on a small map?
By the time my drone scouts this its basically GG.
Should I be sending a drone to scout right away against another Z player on a small map?

I swear 75% of the Bronze players just build 1 base and rush attacks.
I guess I just need to get better at defending an early rush. Or stick to 1 base Muta builds. Any time I go for a fast expand it just gets wrecked by a bunch of Marines and Maruaders.


----------



## DoomDash

If you are that worried you can send a fast drone. If you see a fast pool just throw down your pool then, and by the time he gets there you should be fine. Against something like a 6 pool it won't hurt to send a fast drone to scout as you'll still be up a few drones on him by the time you get to his base to scout.


----------



## burwij

Every mineral counts for Zerg in the early game, so it's tough to recommend scouting with one of your original drones. Any time you get 6-pooled it's going to require some pretty good micro with your drones until you can get your own pool down, but if you can successfully hold him off you'll win 90% of the time since his economy will be terrible. Make sure you're sending your first overlord along the main attack path so at the very least your "oh ****" moment is when he's 10-15 seconds out and not when he's right at your ramp. Grab a friend and practice holding off a 6-pool 5 or 10 times until you feel comfortable.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Any time I go for a fast expand it just gets wrecked by a bunch of Marines and Maruaders.


Any time you're doing a fast expo you need to prioritize scouting and map control. If you're blindly throwing down a hatch and building drones you'll run into those situations where you just spent all of your larva on economy and don't have anything for the attack that just showed up at your base. Make sure you're grabbing the Xel'Naga towers and poking at the front of his base to try to get an idea of what he's building. If you see him powering ground units toss down a Baneling Nest so that you can play defensively until you get your mutas up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I gota check that out. I'm still stuck on artosis tv batch 3 and daily 9 dailys for the last few days.


----------



## listen to remix

Wow... fruit dealer is my hero.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

lol. liquidtlo did the same thing in the FFA husky posted.


----------



## DoomDash

Live stream starts in 10 minutes:

http://www.gomtv.net


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Have you been playing on US? Blinker 868 on US 95X Diamond? See you posting on scarena







.


That's an impostor! Weirdly enough he has the same ID number Oo

I was thinking though, when the expansion comes out, and I buy US copy, will I be able to play on both EU and US? I'd assume so.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but you may need both versions installed. Ask thiru.

That's so odd he has the same number as you.


----------



## tonictim

dont believe the game was worth the 20 thousand year wait, well it wasnt worth the $70aud i payed anyway.

admittidly a few things did hinder my opion tho, one my pentium sux so had to play on low settings with everything on low and shaders turn off







i could turn everything up high and enjoy a few seconds of still pictures before it crashed.

and two, i like the idea of "achievments" but my internet not being stable and cutting out, only got like every 2nd level worth of them.

hopefully when "the 939r" is up and fully operation i will reinstall on that system and give another go, but for now im only giving 4/10 rubber chickens.


----------



## DoomDash

Sounds entirely like your computers fault.

I have a second computer similar to your 939R, and you'll still probably be on all low settings.


----------



## tonictim

dont bring my pc down man







ull make me cry lol


----------



## DoomDash

I'm just trying not to get your hopes up. A lot of pro player play on low settings anyway if that makes you feel better







.

Still, the game is much much prettier on Ultra.


----------



## tonictim

thats it, im just a pro in disguise







nah all good, i never get my hopes up with games, i know i cant compete so i just do my best.

but i do believe the gameplay wasnt as good as the orginal, least with the original you had a terran, zerg and protoss campaign, well from what i remember anyways lol


----------



## DoomDash

Well the Terran campaign is pretty long... and you get to play as Toss a little







. I was pretty pleased. Still worth the money if you play multiplayer / custom games anyway.


----------



## tonictim

yer the multiplayer side of things is great, well except for me only last 2 mins at the max) im only used to playing LAN strategy games, where we always make it a rule that no one attacks for atleast 10mins lol


----------



## DoomDash

If you are in practice mode its pretty much like that. But I also don't think you get a real feel for the game unless you actually get good at it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you are in practice mode its pretty much like that. But I also don't think you get a real feel for the game unless you actually get good at it.


Definitely true, practice games might be good to give you some feel for the game, however, in a league game, the speed is faster and there are no rocks, so, your opponents can just walk into your base. My advice is to play a couple of practice to get used to the maps, race, etc.... then jump into the league








@poroboszcz I think you can play on NA servers now. I mean there was a user on here saying that he could select the NA tab on his login in screen, see if you have those tabs and give it a try


----------



## puzzledazn

I should make a poll... What's your favorite race...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


@poroboszcz I think you can play on NA servers now. I mean there was a user on here saying that he could select the NA tab on his login in screen, see if you have those tabs and give it a try










That is for SEA only.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
That is for SEA only.

oh I see, thought they changed it for all versions of SC2, but, if you buy a NA version, I think you can play in NA but not 100% sure









As for favourite race, TBH, I like all three races because of how unique they are, however, I have been playing only zerg in my league games


----------



## thiru

Has anyone noticed improvements in alt-tabbing speed in fullscreen mode with ATI cards? It went from taking 15 seconds to something like 3 seconds.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Has anyone noticed improvements in alt-tabbing speed in fullscreen mode with ATI cards? It went from taking 15 seconds to something like 3 seconds.

I noticed improvements using my Nvidia card. It used to take forever to do so but now it just works. I am still experiencing freezes though at the end of a MP game and I've already lost 2 replays which I wanted to look at because of this







Let's hope that they get it sorted out soon


----------



## yellowtoblerone

HUKS IS MY NEW HERO screw adellscott

carrier rusH? omg lol


You Tube


----------



## ITOzann

sc2 in 3d is ****ing amazing! now I'm more addicted! FCUK


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but Blizzard could improve some of the 3D stuff... lots of things I found wrong with it.

Terran is my favorite race of course.


----------



## Nevaziah

Zerg definetly my favorite race. SOO much more fun.
Wanna play Dash? Im online for at least 2 more hours from this post.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Zerg definetly my favorite race. SOO much more fun.
Wanna play Dash? Im online for at least 2 more hours from this post.

I would be interested


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Zerg definetly my favorite race. SOO much more fun.
Wanna play Dash? Im online for at least 2 more hours from this post.

Sure, not sure if you are on my list and i don't see your SN on here...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sure, not sure if you are on my list and i don't see your SN on here...

Look 10 pages back or so. He wrote it in a post when he asked if anyone wanted to play. Once I get on SC2, if you are one and haven't gotten it, I'll send it to you


----------



## DoomDash

10 pages back? Screw that







.


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sounds entirely like your computers fault.

I have a second computer similar to your 939R, and you'll still probably be on all low settings.

I'm playing on a 939, i could play the campaign on high settings but for MP i had to turn them all the way down, including the stuff with my video card and i'm running sli 8600gts


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## rhed5

Played FFA with BigFan, Nevaziah, DoomDash.

Nevaziah [email protected] us all..


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Played FFA with BigFan, Nevaziah, DoomDash.

Nevaziah [email protected] us all..

Tell me about it. I think me and you going for DoomDash early on and not attacking Nevaziah meant that he had time to expand further and mount a lot of forces at which point, he took you out and since I was attacked by you, I had to recover which meant that I wasn't able to fully defend my base







We'll get him next time


----------



## DoomDash

I hate Protoss.


----------



## thiru

lol last time I played a FFA with friends I was the only one with more than 1 expand (I had 4 at one point). I would have won if they all hadn't ganged up on me (and a huge micro failure with HT in a key battle), courtesy of a non-objective spectator in our Ventrilo server


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I hate Protoss.


Knew it!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Knew it!


They are the anti-Terran after 13 minutes. Grrr. Thinking about changing my build entirely.. I'll need some of you guys to practice with / crush my new strats.


----------



## poroboszcz

More banshees and ravens before I can get HT's is the hardest thing to deal with imo. In the late game nuke harassment can be pretty annoying. And I also recently found out that SCV's can be pretty good against speed zealots in the late game, if microed correctly









Have you guys seen this?

  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_RCBfSAHnM&feature=player_embedded


----------



## DoomDash

I saw it. I haven't had much luck with Raven / Banshee vs Protoss. If they go heavy stalker / sentry you are SCREWED. Not only do stalkers waste that 100 energy of a PDD fast, but sentries are unaffected. 3 gate robo is so strong.

Boxer is my favorite player of all time.


----------



## poroboszcz

I always find it scary. When I now see 3 rax aggression I feel kind of relieved. Maybe you just need to time things better, before protoss has critical mass of stalkers or you can try an early aggression with marauders which will usually make protoss cut stalkers a bit in favor of zealot sentry and then attack with raven/banshee/marine. If you get cloak you can also snipe an observer with marines if he's not careful. Here's a good example: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/805 (I think it's the right one)

Not sure about 3 gate robo though as it's normally an all in, until you get robo just for observers. Or do you mean some kind of timing attack with immortals? 2 gate robo is more of a standard play as it allows for earlier expansion/collosus/templar tech. Have you got any good replay of 3 gate robo PvT?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I saw it. I haven't had much luck with Raven / Banshee vs Protoss. If they go heavy stalker / sentry you are SCREWED. Not only do stalkers waste that 100 energy of a PDD fast, but sentries are unaffected. 3 gate robo is so strong.

Boxer is my favorite player of all time.


Really? Because sentries are so powerful your scv could kill it one on one lol.

3 gate robo is strong, but since the warpgate nerf early expo is almost required to keep up with mules.


----------



## thiru

I was watching Cool v Top and I wondered why isn't there an animation for ultralisks being picked up by overlords a la thor/medivac? would be cool with the tentacles and all. And it would make sense, since an ultralisk is freaking huge.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I saw it. I haven't had much luck with Raven / Banshee vs Protoss. If they go heavy stalker / sentry you are SCREWED. Not only do stalkers waste that 100 energy of a PDD fast, but sentries are unaffected. 3 gate robo is so strong.



Here you go. This is ridiculous.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=149215


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Here you go. This is ridiculous.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=149215

Yeah I've tried all that. Not my cup of tea / doesn't work against everything / not as well rounded as my current build. We'll see though I got plans.


----------



## PhelanJKell

Just purchased this, I hope it is as good as everyone says! haha


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
They are the anti-Terran after 13 minutes. Grrr. Thinking about changing my build entirely.. I'll need some of you guys to practice with / crush my new strats.

I would be up for some games a bit later on tonight









Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhelanJKell* 
Just purchased this, I hope it is as good as everyone says! haha

it is, however, I would try and get through SP first just to get a feel for the new terran and protoss units, etc.... As for zerg, you are going to have to give them a try vs. AI if you want to see the new units and their new specs, abilities, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

God single player is so SLOW on fast.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
God single player is so SLOW on fast.

Yes, but, so are practice league games which is the many reason that I started telling people to play a couple of them before jumping into the league


----------



## Tchernobyl

ahaha, nexus word wars.. i just 3v1'd an opposite team and won XD

FEAR THE TYPING SPEED


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
ahaha, nexus word wars.. i just 3v1'd an opposite team and won XD

FEAR THE TYPING SPEED

lol, what nexus word wars about? I'm guessing defend nexus and use words to build units, etc....?


----------



## poroboszcz

I'd like to recommend 1 base mothership rushing to all protoss players. Being a bit drunk just did it in bout 20 games in row, won about 5 but all of them wer epic.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, what nexus word wars about? I'm guessing defend nexus and use words to build units, etc....?









posted about it a few pages back.

Basically it's nexus wars (send units you don't directly control to the enemy Nexus so they destroy it) but to kill units FASTER (one shot them, instead of letting a unit of your own kill it), you must type the word (or perform the simple math) above the unit itself.

So let's say a zergling with "cow" appears, you type that and bam, it dies. Repeat until a nexus dies from being hit too much by units that don't get killed.

Killing units results in income that you can spend on improving your income, getting defense towers, improving units, or just getting units period to increase the numbers in your wave.

So basically, I out-typed 3 people on my own XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
posted about it a few pages back.

Basically it's nexus wars (send units you don't directly control to the enemy Nexus so they destroy it) but to kill units FASTER (one shot them, instead of letting a unit of your own kill it), you must type the word (or perform the simple math) above the unit itself.

So let's say a zergling with "cow" appears, you type that and bam, it dies. Repeat until a nexus dies from being hit too much by units that don't get killed.

Killing units results in income that you can spend on improving your income, getting defense towers, improving units, or just getting units period to increase the numbers in your wave.

So basically, I out-typed 3 people on my own XD

oh I see, very impressive. Will definitely be trying that over the next couple of days


----------



## Tchernobyl

Maybe less impressive than at first thought, since it seems one of the opponents had 0 words typed.. so either sucked at typing or was afk the entire time. Did another game though where i had 230 words typed... I lost, but completely decimated the others in #. Though I'd have to, otherwise I would have been swarmed ages ago XD

I could probably post a replay, though I'm not sure how that would show the allied chat and whatnot...


----------



## Epona

Okay, so please watch this replay and tell me everything the other team did wrong.

My team: Luigiii, Walnuts, and Epona.


----------



## EmMure

HI GUYS! anyone else doing the msi eg single elim tourney in 2 weeks?


----------



## thiru

Wow I got raped by DoomDash twice in a row









Terran fast expand and effective (read: $*%&ing annoying







) muta harass + lings is just not what I'm used to in my league.

Guess that was that my first time against a real diamond. Gives a whole new perspective on diamond and pro level play, all the stuff they have to look out for







it's mind boggling.


----------



## DoomDash

rhed5;10869689[/QUOTE said:


> I may do well vs some of you guys but this guys been beating me most of the time we've played so far! But I will come back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## DoomDash

Would you guys please support my cause on battle.net forums by signing my thread?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801610468

Thanks.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Would you guys please support my cause on battle.net forums by signing my thread?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801610468

Thanks.


lol yeah SC1 unit replies > SC2 all the way.

I loved the tank and firebat too. Carrier and BC were awesome. Heck any protoss was awesome. Now they're whiny "We cannot hold!" and whatever the stalker says.

edit: can't log on us.battle.net with my account


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah see I agree, but at least they attempted to put those sayings in. No stim sayings at all... that's bogus.


----------



## thiru

Oh I didn't know that marines don't say anything when they're stimmed.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it's super lame.


----------



## thiru

Zealots should scream something when they charge. FOR AIUR! (or something... since Aiur is kinda zergified) x10 zealots


----------



## DoomDash

BTW are you guys watching the GSL Finals in 30 minutes!?!?!? I am!


----------



## thiru

Who's playing? last game I watched was Cool v Top


----------



## thiru

How do you watch it? I have the Gom player but no idea what to do.

edit: I think I have to log in on Gom but the website is overloaded. Guess I'll just watch it on TL.


----------



## DoomDash

Well you need to register ( I used facebook ). Then just click the standard quality link. It's totally lagging like mad today of course.... I can't even get it working. Never had this problem before, but it is the finals...


----------



## thiru

Yeah I gave up. You can watch it on TL, fisher and roffles are streaming it.


----------



## DoomDash

Cool... quality is worse though I think. But better than nothing.


----------



## thiru

Man those Korean casters are hyper...


----------



## DoomDash

yay I got the stream to work. finally.


----------



## DoomDash

lol at interviews with both of their mothers!!!


----------



## thiru

The part about money was funny. But I suppose that's expected in their culture.

Damn the Tastosis on the right (dunno which is which) must be hating right now, sore throat at the finals.


----------



## DoomDash

Tastosis lol!!!

Artosis and Tasteless







.

wow cool!


----------



## thiru

Yeah first game was awesome. So many fronts!

Looked like Hopetorture was nervous or was simply waiting too long to have several medivacs to do multiple drops.


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg was a good all along







.


----------



## burwij

Fisher's stream has close to 10,000 people watching it right now, lol.


----------



## thiru

Fruit Dealer does it again









Btw the fruit jokes are getting old lol


----------



## NorCa

Fruitdealer is SO good omg; i play terran and even watching all hes doing is like... ive got no idea how to counter it


----------



## thiru

Can you say *DOMINATION*


----------



## NorCa

O M G... hahaha


----------



## DoomDash

1 more!







.


----------



## DoomDash

"This patch was a good one, and Zerg feels revived" - Artosis


----------



## thiru

Fruit Dealer is reading HopeTorture like a book...


----------



## NorCa

lol @ 20 spine crawlers hahaha; damn he prolly wins but it was SO close

Edit: woot! he won (1 at least)


----------



## DoomDash

!#*!#!(*#*_)#


----------



## thiru

GeeGee Fruit Dealer!


----------



## NorCa

daaaaaaaaamn!! so good!


----------



## DoomDash

No more excuse Z







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No more excuse Z







.


ZvZ was your excuse


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No more excuse Z







.


Sure, one person's results means the entire race is fixed~

/slap


----------



## Tchernobyl

watching the vids on gomtv now, haven't started an actual match yet but one comment I can make already... during the intro of the players, they're showing the earlier matches of each.

Cool's matches have a bunch of different stuff, ultras, zerglings, infestors, mutas, etc etc etc.

For Hopetorture, every single scene (except ONE out of 20-30) they show has marauders. Every damn one >_>


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Would you guys please support my cause on battle.net forums by signing my thread?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801610468

Thanks.


Signed.
Please bring back some of these classic quotes and indications that power-ups such as Stim are being activated.


----------



## Maian

So I played in the TL Open #2 tourny today... and got destroyed by LzGaMeR -.-

Happens every time I enter a game tournament that is 1v1s. I get killed by a pro in the first round, even though I could probably beat at least 1/3, if not 1/2, of the people who entered.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Sure, one person's results means the entire race is fixed~

/slap










If one person can do it, anyone can do it!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wow I got raped by DoomDash twice in a row









Terran fast expand and effective (read: $*%&ing annoying







) muta harass + lings is just not what I'm used to in my league.

Guess that was that my first time against a real diamond. Gives a whole new perspective on diamond and pro level play, all the stuff they have to look out for







it's mind boggling.

You were able to play on the US servers? Definitely great news, we should get a game going









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Sure, one person's results means the entire race is fixed~

/slap










Agree, just because fruit dealer can play well(understatement) with zerg doesn't mean that the entire race is fixed, however, personally, I think the only problem with zerg is how much upgrading you have to do to get an AA unit(hydralisk is the first)









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maian* 
So I played in the TL Open #2 tourny today... and got destroyed by LzGaMeR -.-

Happens every time I enter a game tournament that is 1v1s. I get killed by a pro in the first round, even though I could probably beat at least 1/3, if not 1/2, of the people who entered.

If I were you, I would watch that replay like mad and look at what went wrong. That will give you hints and allow you to improve your strategy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
You were able to play on the US servers? Definitely great news, we should get a game going









Agree, just because fruit dealer can play well(understatement) with zerg doesn't mean that the entire race is fixed, however, personally, I think the only problem with zerg is how much upgrading you have to do to get an AA unit(hydralisk is the first)









He uses my second account







.

annnddd More queens







. Queens arent bad AA at least to stall until hydra/muta/spores.


----------



## Tchernobyl

What, more queens? you mean the tech delaying unit?


----------



## Polska

Found a recording of GSL Finals (starts at 1 hour 45 minutes) for anyone interested.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Queens are awesome anti air.

longer range than upgraded hydra.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Queens are awesome anti air.

longer range than upgraded hydra.

They are and decent early d while you upgrade. Their healing ability is also great if used correctly. There was one game where I had two queen take on 5 roaches and throughout this encounter I was constantly getting them to heal each other


----------



## deanlewandowski

Cant log in to Starcraft 2 for the last half hour...
"Unable to download an authentication module. Please try again later."

Anyone have this happen?
Is there a way to fix this and what is causing the issue?


----------



## Tchernobyl

A recent Avast! update has caused an inability to log into World of Warcraft. I'm guessing the same issue is causing the inability to log into starcraft 2.

Quote:

1) Open the user interface

2) Go to Real-Time Shields (Tab on left side)

3) Go to Expert Settings

4) Go to Exclusions

5) At the bottom of the list, there will be an empty box to type in. Type *.auth and then hit Enter.

6) Make sure all 3 checkboxes are marked.

7) Click OK, and exit.

this may leave you open to attack via .auth files so if you're not comfortable with that, simply disable avast for 10 minutes (right click icon -> avast shields control -> disable for 10 minutes) login, then re-enable shields.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Thanks for the advice!
I updated Avast! antivirus and restarted computer
(tried a reboot before but did not work)
and it is allowing me to log in again, so I think it must have been the update.
+REP


----------



## Tchernobyl

Just confirmed from someone else, they updated avast and can log in to WOW as well. It's apparently fixed


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
What, more queens? you mean the tech delaying unit?









I think queens are awesome! They cost 150 minerals at a stage of the game where it is really easy to farm minerals, they are hard to kill, do lots of damage and are anti-air (so it stops the void ray rush etc) and holds you until you can tech to mutalisks.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
I think queens are awesome! They cost 150 minerals at a stage of the game where it is really easy to farm minerals, they are hard to kill, do lots of damage and are anti-air (so it stops the void ray rush etc) and holds you until you can tech to mutalisks.

queens are indeed awesome, but they aren't that damaging. If you look at their melee attack for instance, it's actually quite low. Their anti air however is great. But more often than not, the NEED for getting a queen, especially so early, is a large delay on teching to lair tech. The fact it can't be spawned by larva is an example of this. The only reason it's BUILT from the hive is to delay the upgrading :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
queens are indeed awesome, but they aren't that damaging. If you look at their melee attack for instance, it's actually quite low. Their anti air however is great. But more often than not, the NEED for getting a queen, especially so early, is a large delay on teching to lair tech. The fact it can't be spawned by larva is an example of this. The only reason it's BUILT from the hive is to delay the upgrading :/

Very true, those 150 minerals could be used to upgrade to lair where another 200m and 200g would give you a spire. I guess what it comes down to is, do you believe it's worth it to delay your tech upgrade to get a queen? I'm sure most would answer yes, for the spawn larva to be able to create a quick army to keep up with opponent, for the creep tumour to help your units move faster and finally for the heal which if micro'd correctly would allow you to hold a position well


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Very true, those 150 minerals could be used to upgrade to lair where another 200m and 200g would give you a spire. I guess what it comes down to is, do you believe it's worth it to delay your tech upgrade to get a queen? I'm sure most would answer yes, for the spawn larva to be able to create a quick army to keep up with opponent, for the creep tumour to help your units move faster and finally for the heal which if micro'd correctly would allow you to hold a position well









Oh I'm not even talking about the resource cost (which is nothing to sneeze at either, admittedly). Building a queen takes up time at the hatchery, since you can't build it from a larva. That means, while a queen is being built, you *cannot* use that hatchery to tech up into a lair. This is on top of the delay of getting a 150 mineral cost unit. It's quite a double whammy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Oh I'm not even talking about the resource cost (which is nothing to sneeze at either, admittedly). Building a queen takes up time at the hatchery, since you can't build it from a larva. That means, while a queen is being built, you *cannot* use that hatchery to tech up into a lair. This is on top of the delay of getting a 150 mineral cost unit. It's quite a double whammy.

Never disagreed with you







Makes me wonder if you should upgrade then get a queen or possibly get a queen from your exp and upgrade to lair at your main


----------



## NrGx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Never disagreed with you







Makes me wonder if you should upgrade then get a queen or possibly get a queen from your exp and upgrade to lair at your main









That's a slow queen then isn't it? Even if you go for a 15 hatch, you won't get the queen out till 18-19 which is really slow. I generally go for 13 pool and straight away, build my queen to ramp my ling defense.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I just got nuked by the computer AI on very hard mode

The queen according to psy is a trickle theory where if you get it late your macro slows way down in the later game.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

I usually go for a queen before lair, unless I'm going for a quick muta harass. In which case, I go Lair, and then build a queen and Spire at the same time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NrGx* 
That's a slow queen then isn't it? Even if you go for a 15 hatch, you won't get the queen out till 18-19 which is really slow. I generally go for 13 pool and straight away, build my queen to ramp my ling defense.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311* 
I usually go for a queen before lair, unless I'm going for a quick muta harass. In which case, I go Lair, and then build a queen and Spire at the same time.

I always go for a queen as soon as my pool is 10 usually around 13-14 now, then upgrade to lair and get spire


----------



## Tchernobyl

That game I posted some pages ago (not the phantom one, but the normal replay that no one watched it seems







) I had just watched day9's no queen sillyness thing, and tried to emulate a bit... actually won though XD

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay is the replay in question


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Oh I'm not even talking about the resource cost (which is nothing to sneeze at either, admittedly). Building a queen takes up time at the hatchery, since you can't build it from a larva. That means, while a queen is being built, you *cannot* use that hatchery to tech up into a lair. This is on top of the delay of getting a 150 mineral cost unit. It's quite a double whammy.

I agree, it's the TIME involved building a queen that is the big penalty, even moreso than the 150 minerals. Waiting for that first queen really tries my patience.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I always go for a queen as soon as my pool is 10 usually around 13-14 now, then upgrade to lair and get spire










A queen is a must early on if you want to be successful with zerg. Reapers/hellions harass will destroy you otherwise. If you guys want to see the best Starcraft player in the world check out the GSL finals. A Fruit Dealer is simply amazing at zerg.

Just passed 1400 points woot.


----------



## Tchernobyl

argh, just can't do it. can't seem to get the hang of a fast expand... always feel like i need to be producing drones and then don't have enough attack units >.<


----------



## deanlewandowski

I think thats what makes the Zerg pros so good.
They scout so well that they never have more troops than they absolutely need.
Just making drones, see the attack incoming and get defense right as the enemy reaches the base, and still manage to get the exact number/ right composition to defend the attack,
and then micro them correctly.

I guess its not so hard to do all that when you are pushing 400 APM though...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
I think thats what makes the Zerg pros so good.
They scout so well that they never have more troops than they absolutely need.
Just making drones, see the attack incoming and get defense right as the enemy reaches the base, and still manage to get the exact number/ right composition to defend the attack,
and then micro them correctly.

I guess its not so hard to do all that when you are pushing 400 APM though...

There is no way they have 400 APM, someone's exaggerating







One of the games I watched, they had average of 110 or so with the obvious ups and down with the gameplay. I agree, in games where I concentrate on scouting, then I can tell when they are going to attack and build forces in time. Definitely something that should be done if you plan to win games though


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I duno man. I had over 400 apm doing the 7% mineral trick awhile back and I'm just in plat. I think some of these players can have higher. HOwever I do think, and I think you agree too is that around 100-200 is the sweet mark where they have optimum multitask and micro/macro. Anything higher is just inefficient spam.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I duno man. I had over 400 apm doing the 7% mineral trick awhile back and I'm just in plat. I think some of these players can have higher. HOwever I do think, and I think you agree too is that around 100-200 is the sweet mark where they have optimum multitask and micro/macro. Anything higher is just inefficient spam.

hmm, if I recall, you are constantly pressing back and forth in that trick(press field, press cc), then your APM should be high. Yes, I agree, 100-200 is sweet spot and if you have various bases in a game, you should be able to hit especially if you are zerg


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea you want to spam drones when you are attacking, harassing or when your opponent is playing passive


----------



## Tchernobyl

that was an odd game. I figure i was late on my timing for a baneling bust, I guess, but the guy had usual wall (2 depots, barracks, 4-5 marines)... and when i went in to bust, bam, he also had a thor. Never seen marine -> thor without a tank in the middle


----------



## DoomDash

100 wins in 1v1 ladder, siege tank icon received







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

nice.

rofl thats nice you got to diamond before 100.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
rofl thats nice you got to diamond before 100.

? Joke ?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what do yo ueman, i'm at 131 wins and i'm in plat.


You Tube





we were talking about apm, this tos was up to 410 apm while macro and mirco vs bane and speedlings. I gota learn from these ppl.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
what do yo ueman, i'm at 131 wins and i'm in plat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAhJX8tG2_8

we were talking about apm, this tos was up to 410 apm while macro and mirco vs bane and speedlings. I gota learn from these ppl.

I was in Diamond since the 3rd day of release ( just looked







). Only reason it took so long was because I played SP for the first days.

Are you almost in Diamond yet?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Na i haven't played in a few weeks or what feels like.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
nice.

rofl thats nice you got to diamond before 100.

You can get into diamond with 30 games... probably less too.


----------



## DoomDash

thiru you still up? Let's play.


----------



## thiru

Lol I woke up a couple of hours ago

edit: yeah sure. I'll try to last more than one battle this time


----------



## DoomDash

ggs


----------



## thiru

GG








I'll try to practice more. Playing too much Minecraft


----------



## puzzledazn

who's in for sc2 tonight!!!!!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


GG








I'll try to practice more. Playing too much Minecraft










Did you get US version of SC2? Stil playing on EU?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Did you get US version of SC2? Stil playing on EU?


I use Doomdash's second account to play 1v1 and 2v2s with people from OCN









edit: and yeah I still play on EU, not much lately though. I'm trying to change that.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


what do yo ueman, i'm at 131 wins and i'm in plat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAhJX8tG2_8

we were talking about apm, this tos was up to 410 apm while macro and mirco vs bane and speedlings. I gota learn from these ppl.


Don't worry about apm, it's overrated. Some of the players in the GSL were averaging ~400 apm and they didn't win (I believe the winner had around 150-200). You really only need to 60-100 to play decently in diamond. You can't really learn apm; it's just a lot of practice spamming accurately lol.


----------



## thiru

Well this is interesting. I have 2 versions of SC2 installed, and one alt-tabs in a few seconds and the other takes like 20 seconds









edit: got harrassed by mutas. Overreacted with phoenixes. He switched to hydras. Got owned. Damn that tech switch!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I use Doomdash's second account to play 1v1 and 2v2s with people from OCN









edit: and yeah I still play on EU, not much lately though. I'm trying to change that.


We should play a game then









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well this is interesting. I have 2 versions of SC2 installed, and one alt-tabs in a few seconds and the other takes like 20 seconds









edit: got harrassed by mutas. Overreacted with phoenixes. He switched to hydras. Got owned. Damn that tech switch!


hmm, interesting, wonder why the difference


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
We should play a game then









hmm, interesting, wonder why the difference









Added








Yeah makes no sense.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Added








Yeah makes no sense.

Phoenix's don't attack ground, so Voids would have survived the tech switch better. (By that I mean soft countering with voids and phoenix's instead of hard countering with just phoenix's)


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Don't worry about apm, it's overrated. Some of the players in the GSL were averaging ~400 apm and they didn't win (I believe the winner had around 150-200). You really only need to 60-100 to play decently in diamond. You can't really learn apm; it's just a lot of practice spamming accurately lol.

What he said. And this toss is Tester btw.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well this is interesting. I have 2 versions of SC2 installed, and one alt-tabs in a few seconds and the other takes like 20 seconds









edit: got harrassed by mutas. Overreacted with phoenixes. He switched to hydras. Got owned. Damn that tech switch!

I was going to ask if you need 2 clients. You can fix the alt-tab issue by changing video setting from Fullscreen to Fullscreen [windowed].

Do you know how keen Doomdash is to share his account with other fellow OCNers?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Phoenix's don't attack ground, so Voids would have survived the tech switch better. (By that I mean soft countering with voids and phoenix's instead of hard countering with just phoenix's)

The problem is that mutas absolutely own void rays. Phoenixes are only good in smaller numbers and with a good micro. There's Phoenix vs muta micro trainer map on bnet to pracitice it.

Generally if zerg overcommits to mutas, you can just go and kill him if you have enough stalkers. At the same time it's hard to rely on one tech too long because of how easy it is for zerg to tech switch. The best late game unit composition I've found against zerg is a good mix of speed zealots, blink stalkers, immortals, HTs and archons


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
The problem is that mutas absolutely own void rays. Phoenixes are only good in smaller numbers and with a good micro. There's Phoenix vs muta micro trainer map on bnet to pracitice it.

Generally if zerg overcommits to mutas, you can just go and kill him if you have enough stalkers. At the same time it's hard to rely on one tech too long because of how easy it is for zerg to tech switch. The best late game unit composition I've found against zerg is a good mix of speed zealots, blink stalkers, immortals, HTs and archons









I just played some matches with thiru, lost some and the last two which I had the greatest chance of winning, the connection was dropped in one and the other one, the game just froze for whatever odd reason and just as I was able to attack as well














Yes, mutalisks can be countered with stalkers however mutalisks are great for harassing an opponent and in numbers can be devastating due to their bounce attack


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Phoenix's don't attack ground, so Voids would have survived the tech switch better. (By that I mean soft countering with voids and phoenix's instead of hard countering with just phoenix's)

Yeah but void rays generally suck and they're freaking slow, and against mutas they will get raped like no other air unit.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
What he said. And this toss is Tester btw.

I was going to ask if you need 2 clients. You can fix the alt-tab issue by changing video setting from Fullscreen to Fullscreen [windowed].

Do you know how keen Doomdash is to share his account with other fellow OCNers?









The problem is that mutas absolutely own void rays. Phoenixes are only good in smaller numbers and with a good micro. There's Phoenix vs muta micro trainer map on bnet to pracitice it.

Generally if zerg overcommits to mutas, you can just go and kill him if you have enough stalkers. At the same time it's hard to rely on one tech too long because of how easy it is for zerg to tech switch. The best late game unit composition I've found against zerg is a good mix of speed zealots, blink stalkers, immortals, HTs and archons









Well I still plan on laddering the EU account at my own pace (ie slowly), and I won't tarnish Doomdash's account by playing ladder on his









And you should ask Doomdash







(by PM, don't want to advertise his second account in this thread







)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I just played some matches with thiru, lost some and the last two which I had the greatest chance of winning, the connection was dropped in one and the other one, the game just froze for whatever odd reason and just as I was able to attack as well














Yes, mutalisks can be countered with stalkers however mutalisks are great for harassing an opponent and in numbers can be devastating due to their bounce attack









Lol yeah, you have the crappiest luck







especially the last game when I basically suicided my army with that silly move xD

Must have been that video issue. Is it overclocked?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah but void rays generally suck and they're freaking slow, and against mutas they will get raped like no other air unit.

Well I still plan on laddering the EU account at my own pace (ie slowly), and I won't tarnish Doomdash's account by playing ladder on his









And you should ask Doomdash







(by PM, don't want to advertise his second account in this thread







)

They are slow, however, if used correctly, they are great. Phenoixs are better against mutas though. Void rays are for bc, carriers, etc... due to their charge up







BTW, I just send you a message thiru.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Lol yeah, you have the crappiest luck







especially the last game when I basically suicided my army with that silly move xD

Must have been that video issue. Is it overclocked?

I do recently, maybe a new gpu is in order, but, I wanna make sure that it's not the game but the gpu first. Well, it wasn't silly, had an opponent try that once and they succeeded, thus, the reason I tried to block the ramp in this case







My gpu isn't oc'd, it's the same way I bought it, same with my cpu and everything else. As for that game, I was coming with about 17 mutas or so, so, unless you had stalkes massed, you were going down


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I do recently, maybe a new gpu is in order, but, I wanna make sure that it's not the game but the gpu first. Well, it wasn't silly, had an opponent try that once and they succeeded, thus, the reason I tried to block the ramp in this case







My gpu isn't oc'd, it's the same way I bought it, same with my cpu and everything else. As for that game, I was coming with about 17 mutas or so, so, unless you had stalkes massed, you were going down
















Ouch, that would have done me for sure









Good luck on solving the issue.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Ouch, that would have done me for sure









Good luck on solving the issue.

Thanks, will do


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah but void rays generally suck and they're freaking slow, and against mutas they will get raped like no other air unit.

Well I still plan on laddering the EU account at my own pace (ie slowly), and I won't tarnish Doomdash's account by playing ladder on his









And you should ask Doomdash







(by PM, don't want to advertise his second account in this thread







)

Will do. Sadly I think we're the only two active OCN EU players.


----------



## thiru

Yeah looks like. OCN's SC2 EU thread is dead. And we're both protoss >.<


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Will do. Sadly I think we're the only two active OCN EU players.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah looks like. OCN's SC2 EU thread is dead. And we're both protoss >.<

That's very disappointing to hear. Maybe there is someone else on here who has another account similar to DoomDash? That would help if they are willing to allow you to use it once Blizzard allows you to play on the server you want








Very interesting to read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=157292


----------



## poroboszcz

PvP is still better than ZvZ though. Actually I think it's currently my best matchup as I had some success against protosses as high as 1000 diamond.

Don't you have a problem with running two clients? I remember when I installed US client it would be used as default and every time I wanted to open a replay or a map it would launch and make me use my guest account.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Very interesting to read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=157292

lol good stuff. sadly though, that AoE bug was taken away with the latest patch


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
PvP is still better than ZvZ though. Actually I think it's currently my best matchup as I had some success against protosses as high as 1000 diamond.

Don't you have a problem with running two clients? I remember when I installed US client it would be used as default and every time I wanted to open a replay or a map it would launch and make me use my guest account.

ZvsZ is just plain crazy! I've played a couple and was rushed, I think in all of them. I did manage to win 2/3, but, I had to constantly harass and defend my base from harassement









Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule* 
lol good stuff. sadly though, that AoE bug was taken away with the latest patch









Yes, very disappointing especially considering their cost, time to tech to them and what their purpose is since they are anti-mech yet lose to a thor!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
PvP is still better than ZvZ though. Actually I think it's currently my best matchup as I had some success against protosses as high as 1000 diamond.

Don't you have a problem with running two clients? I remember when I installed US client it would be used as default and every time I wanted to open a replay or a map it would launch and make me use my guest account.

Yeah I know. I don't really mind PvP in ladder, but it's uninteresting to play against friends who are the same race.

Yeah the US client is launched by default if I open a replay, but that's most likely because it was the last one installed. You can change which one opens replays in Windows settings.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
ZvsZ is just plain crazy! I've played a couple and was rushed, I think in all of them. I did manage to win 2/3, but, I had to constantly harass and defend my base from harassement









Yes, very disappointing especially considering their cost, time to tech to them and what their purpose is since they are anti-mech yet lose to a thor!

Well it doesn't really matter because if you watch the cool vs oGsTop game he does a quick tech switch to Ultras a few times, getting 15 ultras out which wreck an equal number of Thor's. Even with the fix this might not happen, but at the same time for Terran to build 15 thors in the tiem it takes Zerg to build 15 ultras would probably take 2-3x the time since you'd have to have 15 factories. If you expect Zerg to beat Terran units 1:1 for one that's being completely unrealistic and you aren't taking the Zerg mechanics into account.

Just remember Terran has the worst late game macro mechanics.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well it doesn't really matter because if you watch the cool vs oGsTop game he does a quick tech switch to Ultras a few times, getting 15 ultras out which wreck an equal number of Thor's. Even with the fix this might not happen, but at the same time for Terran to build 15 thors in the tiem it takes Zerg to build 15 ultras would probably take 2-3x the time since you'd have to have 15 factories. If you expect Zerg to beat Terran units 1:1 for one that's being completely unrealistic and you aren't taking the Zerg mechanics into account.

Just remember Terran has the worst late game macro mechanics.

Agree and disagree. Yes it would take 15 factories to get thors all at the same time, however, you also aren't considering gas costs as well since zerg requires early expansion to get gas since heir units cost more gas in general. You also have to remember what thors bring to the table in comparison. Thors have ranged, solid AA especially against mutas, large amount of damage, cannons which can easily kill an ultralisk and finally they can be repaired using SCV. Let's put it this way. You can have 15 thors vs. 15 ultralisks and due to their range as well as the fact that you can focus fire them, they would beat ultralisks easily. Ultralisks are supposed to be anti-mech and the strongest melee unit in the game(they have +1 range) yet they are a higher tier, cost around the same and lose to a thor EVEN though they should it the hard counter to them. yes, the AOE was large when attacking building and that's not right, however, they seem weakened in comparison to what they were in SC1 and what they should be in SC2


----------



## DoomDash

If you think they are weaker than SC1 I think you gotta lay off the pot. Seriously Ultralisks are one of the scariest units in the game. Yeah they come faster than Thor's in the tier list, and year Thor's can beat them one on one... but Ultralisks are still the best anti-armored unit in the game IMO ( even slightly above the Immortal ). I don't agree with this Zerg requires way more gas thing either. Not only is it about the same, but it's much easier and cheaper for Zerg to expand anyway. If that were true it would make sense to work like that anyway since hatches are only 300 minerals, and Zerg can drone faster than anyone if they are not needing to produce units asap.

You want to know why I don't go metal / bio vs Zerg anymore? I gave that crap up over a month ago because once you get Ultra's out it's pretty much GG, or Terran at all times close to getting ran over. I've tried everything, and on the ground Terran has no real answer for Ultra's against a Zerg who has enough bases to support it. I got sick of losing to them, so I play completely different now, and it's been working for me. Sure Thor's might hold off Ultra's for a tad but eventually it will be all Zerg because the ability to just replace them so fast.

but really, if you think SC1 Ultra's are better than SC2 ... you must be crazy! Ultras with splash vs no splash? lol!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If you think they are weaker than SC1 I think you gotta lay off the pot. Seriously Ultralisks are one of the scariest units in the game. Yeah they come faster than Thor's in the tier list, and year Thor's can beat them one on one... but Ultralisks are still the best anti-armored unit in the game IMO ( even slightly above the Immortal ). I don't agree with this Zerg requires way more gas thing either. Not only is it about the same, but it's much easier and cheaper for Zerg to expand anyway. If that were true it would make sense to work like that anyway since hatches are only 300 minerals, and Zerg can drone faster than anyone if they are not needing to produce units asap.

I only used them once and my opponents automatically GG when he found 5 of them in his base, but, SC1 ultras seem stronger. I mean when you consider them in the game. Immortals will do well and if I'm not mistaken beat them, same with thors. I just don't get that scary feeling from them anymore. I just recalled using them a couple of times against T and they are disposed of like nothing, probably my fault with microing and all, but, just overall, they don't give me the same feel as they did in SC1. Simple comparison, hydras vs. marauders. Marauder is 25 less gas, larger hp and damage is 15 if I remembered correctly compared to 13 for hydra and it's tier 1.5 compared to tier 3(pool+lair+den).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You want to know why I don't go metal / bio vs Zerg anymore? I gave that crap up over a month ago because once you get Ultra's out it's pretty much GG, or Terran at all times close to getting ran over. I've tried everything, and on the ground Terran has no real answer for Ultra's against a Zerg who has enough bases to support it. I got sick of losing to them, so I play completely different now, and it's been working for me. Sure Thor's might hold off Ultra's for a tad but eventually it will be all Zerg because the ability to just replace them so fast.

but really, if you think SC1 Ultra's are better than SC2 ... you must be crazy! Ultras with splash vs no splash? lol!

Actually, if you have a MMM ball with stim, they take ultras down, not quickly but good enough for their cost and the fact that they are tier 1 and 1.5 units. Your opponent can use thecannons to one-shot ultralisks if I'm not mistaken, provided you do have to get the timing right. Likewise, they are big, so, fighting them on choke points especially with the thor's range means that if micro'd correctly could be an instant win. My point is that they are still good, but, SC1 ultras *seemed* stronger and the amount of teching, costs, etc.... associated with them in comparison to thor or immortal wich can beat them means that they might not be worth going for if you don't have the income especially as you get more into the game


----------



## thiru

Day9's funday monday right now is the funniest ever


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I only used them once and my opponents automatically GG when he found 5 of them in his base, but, SC1 ultras seem stronger. I mean when you consider them in the game. Immortals will do well and if I'm not mistaken beat them, same with thors. I just don't get that scary feeling from them anymore. I just recalled using them a couple of times against T and they are disposed of like nothing, probably my fault with microing and all, but, just overall, they don't give me the same feel as they did in SC1. Simple comparison, hydras vs. marauders. Marauder is 25 less gas, larger hp and damage is 15 if I remembered correctly compared to 13 for hydra and it's tier 1.5 compared to tier 3(pool+lair+den).
*Marauders only do 10 damage to Hydra's / light / non-armored units. Marauders do not attack air. Ghosts are 150 gas. Thors are 200 gas. Siege tanks are 125 gas. Battle Cruisers are 300 gas. Reapers are 50 gas. MMH are really the only cheap gas units Terran has in reality. I'm not saying that they are less gas heavy than Zerg, but I'm saying its not much different, yes its still easier to expand as Zerg so that would make up for any advantage of cheaper gassed Terrans. Again you are thinking in very simplistic terms. Ultras may not beat Thors or Immortals one on one, but that's because Zerg is a swarm race and will have more to reinforce shortly. If you think Ultra's were more threatening in SC1 you weren't playing the same game I was. Because Ultra's were much worse against Terran specifically back then. Siege tanks did full damage to them ( at 75~ w/ out upgrades ), and they had 100 less hp and NO splash damage. Splash is huge*

Actually, if you have a MMM ball with stim, they take ultras down, not quickly but good enough for their cost and the fact that they are tier 1 and 1.5 units. Your opponent can use thecannons to one-shot ultralisks if I'm not mistaken, provided you do have to get the timing right. Likewise, they are big, so, fighting them on choke points especially with the thor's range means that if micro'd correctly could be an instant win. My point is that they are still good, but, SC1 ultras *seemed* stronger and the amount of teching, costs, etc.... associated with them in comparison to thor or immortal wich can beat them means that they might not be worth going for if you don't have the income especially as you get more into the game








*Getting 15 Thor's is so much harder than getting 15 Ultra's. It literally takes a long amount of time to build up such an army of Thor's, and generally that means a weak / immobile army so Zerg can probably expand quite a few times to make up for it. Again it makes perfect sense why Thors, and Immortals beat Ultras. Even Protoss has the same macro mechanic problems as Terran vs Zerg late game when you take their robobay units into production. It's not surprise that the Immortal should be sick against them as they take a long time to replace and you need a lot of robobays to compete with Zerg macro.

MMM is good against Ultras only in select situations. If you are on the offensive and on creep, Ultras are unable to be kitted effectively even with stimmed MM. The amount of splash damage they cause is so large and great that the MM ball will die incrediably quick. I'm not saying MM is not effective at times vs Ultra's, but what I'm saying is it can also back fire if you are in the wrong spot at the wrong time VERY badly. Not only that but if you see bio that late into the game Zerg has a ton of options to deal with that, like infestors and banelings. Bio is very easy to deal with as Z during the late game similar to Protoss w/ colossus / templar late game.*

To me, it sounds you just don't have enough experience vs them to understand their power. I know first hand about their power. I lost so many times to them I abandoned my build entirely.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
To me, it sounds you just don't have enough experience vs them to understand their power. I know first hand about their power. I lost so many times to them I abandoned my build entirely.

10 damage against hydras? hmm, I could swear I remember reading 15 and 20 vs. armored or something like that, but, since you are the one playing terran, I trust you to know the costs







It's quite possible I don't have experience with them, but, you are missing my main point. Zerg may be a swarm race and with that, our costs should be down with weaker units so that we can rely on numbers however that is not the case with ultralisks and with most units(compare 1 hydras to 2 marines, I think hydra just wins or lose with the second marine almost dying). Yes, it will take a lot of time to produce 15 thors in comparison to 15 ultralisks, but, that's the advantage of playing zerg, the ability to replace your army rather quickly if you have enough larvae and minerals/gas. I haven't had much experience with ultralisks, so, you are correct there, but, I still believe that they should beat thors at least like they were in v1.0 due to the fact that blizzard's intent was that they were supposed to count mecha units such as thors







As for MMM balls, if you stim off creep, you should be outrun them, do some damage then run again which is what kiting is if I'm not mistaken


----------



## DoomDash

Ultras were not originally intended for armor countering. They were adjusted that way in beta to deal with mech and marauders. Believe me I was there for it







. If you have a problem with thors you can just get NP mixed in your units. You can even shoot the thors cannons if you do NP, simply to waste the energy or use them on other thors. What I'm trying to say is Ultras are a pretty good unit against Thors, but not one end all solution, and that's fine, because they shouldn't be. Morrow actually posted in his thread how its pretty easy to deal with Thors even with the 12 second timer on NP ( since he plays Z now as well ).

Trust me, play with Ultras more vs Terran and you'll come back to me like this : :O

Don't forget I play Z as well! I know it's not as much as my Terran but I've also wrecked Terrans and Tosses with Ultra's too.

And for bio vs Ultras... telling you mix up some banes and a couple infestors... or even just infestors... and kiting is just gone entirely.

As for costs 2 marines vs hydras... I mean in some situations the marines are better... but hydras vs anything with a ton of hp / armor and they are far more effective than marines. Same goes for spells like FG, and storm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Ultras were not originally intended for armor countering. They were adjusted that way in beta to deal with mech and marauders. Believe me I was there for it







. If you have a problem with thors you can just get NP mixed in your units. You can even shoot the thors cannons if you do NP, simply to waste the energy or use them on other thors. What I'm trying to say is Ultras are a pretty good unit against Thors, but not one end all solution, and that's fine, because they shouldn't be. Morrow actually posted in his thread how its pretty easy to deal with Thors even with the 12 second timer on NP ( since he plays Z now as well ).

Trust me, play with Ultras more vs Terran and you'll come back to me like this : :O

True, I wasn't in beta but I have read enough to know about blizzard changing their armor and what they were supposed to counter. It's not a problem with thor, it's more along the lines of a tier 3 unit with a similar cost and with much less features should be take to takedown a tier 2.5 unit since it's the hard counter to it. I have yet to try NP in my games, same with fungal growth. I usually try to get mutas fast, along with expansion and some roaches+zerglings for defense in the meantime. I'll definitely give them a try if I find that I reached a stalemate with an opponent or if I have the resources









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Don't forget I play Z as well! I know it's not as much as my Terran but I've also wrecked Terrans and Tosses with Ultra's too.

And for bio vs Ultras... telling you mix up some banes and a couple infestors... or even just infestors... and kiting is just gone entirely.

As for costs 2 marines vs hydras... I mean in some situations the marines are better... but hydras vs anything with a ton of hp / armor and they are far more effective than marines. Same goes for spells like FG, and storm.

Don't worry, I didn't forget







Infestors's IT are great in groups but not by themselves. Hydras are definitely better in that aspect, mostly wanted to do a comparison between the two. Can you imagine if Blizzard decided to change them back to hydras in SC1? Wow, I would tech straight to hydras then and get air probably a bit later. Either way, I think zerg is a great race, however, having no AA unit until hydras which is tier 3 is the biggest problem with the race and I dislike it. I know they switched their position with roaches, but, I still prefer hydras over them. While you can push with zerglings early on, terrans usually wall of by then and not sure about protoss though.


----------



## thiru

Since when are hydras tier 3?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Since when are hydras tier 3?

They are tier 2. He is mistaken.

I prefer roach for my main force TBH. Hydra's are OK though.

And you can't think that tier x should always beat tier x either. Besides, the cost is about even and the thor lives with 20 hp or something. I'd hardly call that a huge disadvantage.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True, I wasn't in beta but I have read enough to know about blizzard changing their armor and what they were supposed to counter. It's not a problem with thor, it's more along the lines of a tier 3 unit with a similar cost and with much less features should be take to takedown a tier 2.5 unit since it's the hard counter to it. I have yet to try NP in my games, same with fungal growth. I usually try to get mutas fast, along with expansion and some roaches+zerglings for defense in the meantime. I'll definitely give them a try if I find that I reached a stalemate with an opponent or if I have the resources









Don't worry, I didn't forget







Infestors's IT are great in groups but not by themselves. Hydras are definitely better in that aspect, mostly wanted to do a comparison between the two. Can you imagine if Blizzard decided to change them back to hydras in SC1? Wow, I would tech straight to hydras then and get air probably a bit later. Either way, I think zerg is a great race, however, having no AA unit until hydras which is tier 3 is the biggest problem with the race and I dislike it. I know they switched their position with roaches, but, I still prefer hydras over them. While you can push with zerglings early on, terrans usually wall of by then and not sure about protoss though.

Are you sure you even play Zerg? Because Zerg w/ out infestor or ultra experience does not sound like a Zerg player to me. It should be no surprise to me that you make it seem MMM and mech are stronger than they actually are.


----------



## ThumperSD

I went 0-7 last night playing a bunch of diamonds ranked 1 & 2 in their division =( I dont think Ive ever lost 5 or more games in a row


----------



## DoomDash

I've lost 6 in a row a few times. I've also won more than that in a row a few times. Which reminds me: In beta they recorded your longest win streak. That was awesome. FU Blizzard.


----------



## Tchernobyl

My problem with the whole early expand thing (and that may be because i'm still in gold or something and random *#$)(*$)(*s attack early) is that it's so utterly vulnerable to any early attacks they do... marines and specially marauders just LOLOLOLOLOL at the hatchery as they blast it down like crazy, tons of zealots or stalkers seem to pound it into the ground, argh argh argh


----------



## DoomDash

I love early expansions as Zerg. I even tell my practice partners when I'm hatching before pool to try and stop me







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've lost 6 in a row a few times. I've also won more than that in a row a few times. Which reminds me: In beta they recorded your longest win streak. That was awesome. FU Blizzard.

Yea I dont think I did that horribly against them though. I held my own fairly well for a while then they just outplayed me.

I miss the win streak too. I also miss the option to right click on a player's name in a chat box and adding them to your buddy list. Now you have to ask the player for their code or email. I wonder if Blizzard kills animals.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Yea I dont think I did that horribly against them though. I held my own fairly well for a while then they just outplayed me.

I miss the win streak too. I also miss the option to right click on a player's name in a chat box and adding them to your buddy list. Now you have to ask the player for their code or email. I wonder if Blizzard kills animals.


You can still do that. Click on the arrow that's on the side of the chat box and the namess of the participants will appear. Right click to add friend.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I went 0-7 last night playing a bunch of diamonds ranked 1 & 2 in their division =( I dont think Ive ever lost 5 or more games in a row


Rank doesn't actually mean much. I know a guy who's ~900 points and ranked 1st in his division. I usually stop playing if I lose more then 3 games in a row or go playing 2v2s, Nexus Wars or whatever. If I don't stop I'll only get more angry > play even worse > get even more angry and so on. I only ladder when I'm calm and focused.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


They are tier 2. He is mistaken.

I prefer roach for my main force TBH. Hydra's are OK though.

And you can't think that tier x should always beat tier x either. Besides, the cost is about even and the thor lives with 20 hp or something. I'd hardly call that a huge disadvantage.


Yes, you are correct, tier 2, not 3. hmm, wonder where I messed up my calculation







Never did think that tier x should beat tier x, but, I always taken an assumption that units with similar costs and in a similar tier should somewhat match each other in strength. Having said that, I wasn't taking into account their specific roles(anti-infantry, anti-mech, anti-air, etc....) and it also comes down to how your opponent microes his units. I decided to try the ultralisk vs. thor just now ultra won with 10hp left. Had the thor reacted earlier which he would have had it been with another opponent and not the comp, he would have probably won with 30hp min due to the range component. Not as bad of a matchup as I thought, but, I still think the ultra should have won due to the fact that it's meant to counter these units, my opinion of course and the fact that it does 35 instead of 15 vs. armored. I also tried 5 ultras vs. 5 thors in an open area(unlike the map we fight on) and the thors still won. Had it been an opponent, they would have just focused their attack on each thor and attacked earlier on, likely having 1-2 thors surviving. I think you are also missing a fact. Thors can be repaired even in combat by as many SCVs as can crowd around them while ultralisks can't be healed other than the queen, but, I haven't heard of many opponents that use a queen to heal them in battle. I also like the roach, however, I would prefer the hydras mostly due to their AA









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Are you sure you even play Zerg? Because Zerg w/ out infestor or ultra experience does not sound like a Zerg player to me. It should be no surprise to me that you make it seem MMM and mech are stronger than they actually are.


Games don't get far enough to use ultras and when they do, it's usually air combat with some occasional ground attacks, but, roaches+zerglings are great for ground. I usually focus on mutas to harass and use roaches+zerglings+crawlers for ground defense or attack. I rarely get infestors because I find that combo I wrote above does well vs. MMM balls. As for mech, well, I haven't had a ton of games that go heavy mech(tanks+thors, etc....) so I can't exactly comment on that. Besides, just because a unit is available to use doesn't make it the right one. I would probably use NP if I could use it while burrowed, likewise with FG which I don't think you could









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I went 0-7 last night playing a bunch of diamonds ranked 1 & 2 in their division =( I dont think Ive ever lost 5 or more games in a row


I've lost like 3 in a row and that's was very disappointing, however, just think about wanting to win and try your best. Not much you can do in that case









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've lost 6 in a row a few times. I've also won more than that in a row a few times. Which reminds me: In beta they recorded your longest win streak. That was awesome. FU Blizzard.


It would be if they left that in there, maybe they will add it back on if people ask for it or in future patch?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


My problem with the whole early expand thing (and that may be because i'm still in gold or something and random *#$)(*$)(*s attack early) is that it's so utterly vulnerable to any early attacks they do... marines and specially marauders just LOLOLOLOLOL at the hatchery as they blast it down like crazy, tons of zealots or stalkers seem to pound it into the ground, argh argh argh










Yes, I get this a lot. I expand, get some gas, possible build 2-3 crawlers and have some zerglings+roach, but, most of my opponents take my exp down which makes me wonder why I put it up in the first place if I wasn't able to defend it well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I love early expansions as Zerg. I even tell my practice partners when I'm hatching before pool to try and stop me







.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Rank doesn't actually mean much. I know a guy who's ~900 points and ranked 1st in his division. I usually stop playing if I lose more then 3 games in a row or go playing 2v2s, Nexus Wars or whatever. If I don't stop I'll only get more angry > play even worse > get even more angry and so on. I only ladder when I'm calm and focused.


True, if you lose your cool, you will lose more, which is why it's a good idea to do something else then


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Rank doesn't actually mean much. I know a guy who's ~900 points and ranked 1st in his division. I usually stop playing if I lose more then 3 games in a row or go playing 2v2s, Nexus Wars or whatever. If I don't stop I'll only get more angry > play even worse > get even more angry and so on. I only ladder when I'm calm and focused.


Exactly. I've played a bunch of #1's in their divisions, some of them have 900, and others have 1500. Points matter; rank doesn't.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Exactly. I've played a bunch of #1's in their divisions, some of them have 900, and others have 1500. Points matter; rank doesn't.


Speaks the truth, although, it would be nice to be rank #1 in a division


----------



## thiru

I was #1 of my bronze division. Was rather glad to leave it and be at #50 silver xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I was #1 of my bronze division. Was rather glad to leave it and be at #50 silver xD


Definitely true


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan you'll change your tuned once you get some more opportunities to try these things out ( Ultras, Infestors, ect ). Most games vs Zerg I get into have Ultralisks.


----------



## DoomDash

State of the game this week they talk about some balance things. Good listen. Also mention boxer







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan you'll change your tuned once you get some more opportunities to try these things out ( Ultras, Infestors, ect ). Most games vs Zerg I get into have Ultralisks.


Possibly. I had a game vs. P today, used ultralisks and soon as I entered his base, he was like gg







I should mention that he mostly had photo cannons in his base, however, he had 2 other bases, one with like 10 pc and could have likely defended against the ultra and barely survived.

I am also getting pissed off at battle.net I was doing well, rank 33 or whatever and I get 3 drops straight, one when we just got started and now I've gone back down to 39. In sc1, you get dropped during start, then you don't get a loss if I recall correctly, that would have at least kept me on the 35 rank, but, for some odd reason, they had to change that







Very disappointed, since, my last game, I had my economy down well and was defending against a MM attack using some roaches+zerglings+crawlers+queen







Anyone up for a game? I really need to take my anger out on someone, J/k of course


----------



## this n00b again

we should make a build order thread.....


----------



## DoomDash

"uh and to be fair the people that would know why Zerg is suffering are the ones inflicting the pain not the ones running around being baffled by everything.

"oh hey mr unsuccessful zerg!? Why do you suck?""
incontrol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


"uh and to be fair the people that would know why Zerg is suffering are the ones inflicting the pain not the ones running around being baffled by everything.

"oh hey mr unsuccessful zerg!? Why do you suck?""
incontrol


lol, what's this about? Something from the sc2 forums?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


"uh and to be fair the people that would know why Zerg is suffering are the ones inflicting the pain not the ones running around being baffled by everything.

"oh hey mr unsuccessful zerg!? Why do you suck?""
incontrol


Uh what?


----------



## DoomDash

a quote from iNcontrol from TL. State of the game podcast was good this week.

They talk about how marauders aren't really that amazing.

How Zerg is underrated ect.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
a quote from iNcontrol from TL. State of the game podcast was good this week.

oh, ok, I see.
You guys up for a game?


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm going back to bed







.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=145494


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think I'm going back to bed







.

At this time? It's 11:52 down there, isn't it?


----------



## dejanh

Do you guys have set times when you play normally and is there an OCN team for SC2?


----------



## DoomDash

I stay up till 6 am.

No set time.. but we do play. Also no real team or anything. Just random times.

TLO is talking about how he has to EMP all his own units to prevent late game feedback killing







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
oh, ok, I see.
You guys up for a game?









Yeah sure in a bit.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dejanh* 
Do you guys have set times when you play normally and is there an OCN team for SC2?

There's no team and you can't put clan tags so no... if you want to practice or play 2v2 just post here with some details









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I stay up till 6 am.

No set time.. but we do play. Also no real team or anything. Just random times.

TLO is talking about how he has to EMP all his own units to prevent late game feedback killing







.

lol that's pretty desperate. But since it's TLO I'm gonna call it creative


----------



## DoomDash

Well think about it this way. If you're going in against a Protoss with some Thors and BC's with out cannons research...why not EMP them to make sure feed back doesn't take 100-200 HP instantly.

Pretty good idea actually. With MM you can just stim to keep medivacs low at least.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well think about it this way. If you're going in against a Protoss with some Thors and BC's with out cannons research...why not EMP them to make sure feed back doesn't take 100-200 HP instantly.

Pretty good idea actually. With MM you can just stim to keep medivacs low at least.

Definitely a good idea to EMP them. That 100-200 HP can mean the difference between winning the battle or losing it








BTW, why do you stay up for late if you don't mind telling me of course


----------



## Tchernobyl

The problem I'm facing is the whole "early push" thing. If i get pushed, I don't really know how to defend against it. I haven't really gotten the hang of responding well to what i've seen, or even *if* i've seen it, i tend to get steamrolled because my units rather suck









It never really gets to the point of ultras, people push too early. If a game extends a longer time (30+ min), then I can usually win. But short games... blargh. WTB better zerg early game >.<


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *this n00b again* 
we should make a build order thread.....

Well doesn't look like too many are looking for them here. Guessing they just get from TL or VODs or something.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
oh, ok, I see.
You guys up for a game?









No game?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
The problem I'm facing is the whole "early push" thing. If i get pushed, I don't really know how to defend against it. I haven't really gotten the hang of responding well to what i've seen, or even *if* i've seen it, i tend to get steamrolled because my units rather suck









It never really gets to the point of ultras, people push too early. If a game extends a longer time (30+ min), then I can usually win. But short games... blargh. WTB better zerg early game >.<

I see what you mean. Likewise, I find defending my exp rather difficult. I mean I build it, put some crawlers around it and near ramp to prevent opponent from just walking to my main, then I put queens, roaches and zerglings. I keep watching and try to reinforce it while I try to tech up to mutalisks at which point I concentrate on getting them out and try to harass provided I was able to hold off any attacks at this point. I don't have many 30min games either, maybe one or two but for the most part, it's that a terran or protoss could easily attack with MM and zealots+stalkers and wipe me out if I'm not careful


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well doesn't look like too many are looking for them here. Guessing they just get from TL or VODs or something.

No game?

oh, ok, sure, going in now


----------



## poroboszcz

I just noticed we haven't heard from our "I only hack in single player" friend since the banhammer hit. Wonder if he figured out how to get demoted from diamond yet.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
The problem I'm facing is the whole "early push" thing. If i get pushed, I don't really know how to defend against it. I haven't really gotten the hang of responding well to what i've seen, or even *if* i've seen it, i tend to get steamrolled because my units rather suck









It never really gets to the point of ultras, people push too early. If a game extends a longer time (30+ min), then I can usually win. But short games... blargh. WTB better zerg early game >.<

See how other players in your situation deal with the push. When I watch players who are better than me play, I notice they don't even get in to a situation where I'm stuck in because they've responded better than I would have. Which brings me to my other point; having intel on what your opponent is doing. If you know what they're going to do, the game becomes so much easier. Make use of xel naga towers, sacrifice an ovie early game to see what kinda of 2nd tier tech they're taking(if any), have a unit near their natural, a unit right between your base & their base. This won't spell out everything they're doing, but it will at least help you time their attacks and see what kinda units they might have.

If you're having problems dealing with the push even if you know what was coming all along, I would just watch a lot of good players & play a lot more. Nothing substitutes experience.


----------



## Nevaziah

Or just be the one that pushes out. Often times I win my zerg matchups because I boxed my opponent in. I dont know why, but I dont get the same reflex when I play other races. (i do it with terran sometimes cause I feel ok kiting units with marauders and marines) but with protoss I tend to sit in, which can be fatal if you have no idea whats coming.

Watch a lot of Huk`s games. He is very good at doing a 2gate robo build to explore. But if you are doing a 4gate, you should be in your opponent`s face fairly quickly anyways.
As for Terran, you have scan... Dont be afraid to skip a mule to scan their base.

Question: Any of you still play on desert Oasis? I added it as one of my least favorite maps and I havent played on it in 3 weeks ...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Or just be the one that pushes out. Often times I win my zerg matchups because I boxed my opponent in. I dont know why, but I dont get the same reflex when I play other races. (i do it with terran sometimes cause I feel ok kiting units with marauders and marines) but with protoss I tend to sit in, which can be fatal if you have no idea whats coming.

Watch a lot of Huk`s games. He is very good at doing a 2gate robo build to explore. But if you are doing a 4gate, you should be in your opponent`s face fairly quickly anyways.
As for Terran, you have scan... Dont be afraid to skip a mule to scan their base.

Question: Any of you still play on desert Oasis? I added it as one of my least favorite maps and I havent played on it in 3 weeks ...

Scouting is definitely important, however, if you are zerg, the tier 1 units can be countered pretty easily. marine for zerglings, marauder for roach as examples. Likewise, zealots+stalkers are also pretty good. An example of this, I played with thiru a couple of games and in over 50% of them, he would bring in zealots+stalkers with some ht. Defending with as many or more roaches+Zerglings+queen+crawlers led to a losing battle in which he was able to finish me in the next attack. Point is zerg's tier 1/1.5 is easily countered by terran or protoss' tier 1/1.5 units. Personally, I would love to build an army and then march to my opponent's base and attack, however, I take a big risk if I lose all my units because I would barely have any defense left(other than a couple of crawlers), so, to me it sounds like a fine balance between knowing when to attack and when to defend.
I haven't taken out any maps other than the scrap station and right after I said it was my least favourite, the map was selected for my next match


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Scouting is definitely important, however, if you are zerg, the tier 1 units can be countered pretty easily. marine for zerglings, marauder for roach as examples. Likewise, zealots+stalkers are also pretty good. An example of this, I played with thiru a couple of games and in over 50% of them, he would bring in zealots+stalkers with some ht. Defending with as many or more roaches+Zerglings+queen+crawlers led to a losing battle in which he was able to finish me in the next attack. Point is zerg's tier 1/1.5 is easily countered by terran or protoss' tier 1/1.5 units. Personally, I would love to build an army and then march to my opponent's base and attack, however, I take a big risk if I lose all my units because I would barely have any defense left(other than a couple of crawlers), so, to me it sounds like a fine balance between knowing when to attack and when to defend.
I haven't taken out any maps other than the scrap station and right after I said it was my least favourite, the map was selected for my next match









By the time protoss get HTs you can probably have ultras out. HTs are tier 3 and take a lot of teching to get to. I'm not surprised you loose if you only have zerglings and roaches by then. Watch today's Day 9 Newbie Tuesday it's going to specifically address Zerg army/drones balance.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
By the time protoss get HTs you can probably have ultras out. HTs are tier 3 and take a lot of teching to get to. I'm not surprised you loose if you only have zerglings and roaches by then. Watch today's Day 9 Newbie Tuesday it's going to specifically address Zerg army/drones balance.

Well, ya, zerglings can be taken out easily by storm. Point is that I was constantly trying to build some defense and focusing on economy that I neglected teching up to ultras, brood lords, etc.... Won't make that mistake again, that's for sure


----------



## KaiZ51

Ah, I just won my first online 1v1 match on SC2!! Damn, I've lost multiple times already, but when I won just now, it felt *really* good! I hadn't felt like this while playing games in a long time!
It was in practice league sure, but still, I feel pretty good with myself.

Anyways, I wanted to ask, can someone around here watch my replay and give me tips/see what's wrong? Here it is... Thanks in advance.









EDIT: Also, would be good to know I think, what you thought of my opponent? How good was he?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Definitely a good idea to EMP them. That 100-200 HP can mean the difference between winning the battle or losing it








BTW, why do you stay up for late if you don't mind telling me of course









Just always end up on this schedule. I'm a night person.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Or just be the one that pushes out. Often times I win my zerg matchups because I boxed my opponent in. I dont know why, but I dont get the same reflex when I play other races. (i do it with terran sometimes cause I feel ok kiting units with marauders and marines) but with protoss I tend to sit in, which can be fatal if you have no idea whats coming.

Watch a lot of Huk`s games. He is very good at doing a 2gate robo build to explore. But if you are doing a 4gate, you should be in your opponent`s face fairly quickly anyways.
As for Terran, you have scan... Dont be afraid to skip a mule to scan their base.

Question: Any of you still play on desert Oasis? I added it as one of my least favorite maps and I havent played on it in 3 weeks ...

They updated Desert Oasis with destructible rocks now.

I only lose to zerg if they can tech to ultras. Best way to keep zerg contained is to use an observer and keep knocking back that creep.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Just always end up on this schedule. I'm a night person.

I see









Just had the craziest/funniest/relaxed game in a while. Guy decided to turtle in with photo cannons around base. I attack with roaches+zerglings, however, there were too many pc and I lost all of my units. To make matters worse, he had void rays and attacked my base. With not much defense, he took it out, but, I used my remaining 5 or so drones to make various bases. From there, I started quickly massing drones and building pool, etc.... All this time he didn't attack, why? probably confident that he was going to win, so, I get a spire, higher spire, etc.... I try to attack his base with roaches, but, he closed it with pc and had a mothership so I get ready and start massing corruptors. I had like 24 corruptors, 5-6 mutalisks, 12+ roaches, 12+ zerglings and 5 anti-air. He attacks with mothership+5 or so carriers with void rays and I demolish him completely







Then I start making ultras and get 5 brood lords to break down his door and the rest is history. I am still surprised that he didn't try to attack earlier though, probably planned to mass but once he saw that I was massing, decided to attack then. I had 4 bases including my original, with gas and minerals coming in like crazy. I had creep ALL over the map connecting all bases and ya, it was interesting, never thought that I would live to get another chance and I made the best of it







Sad to say, the game froze RIGHT after I won and I LOST the replay, really pissed about that, wanted to find out what he was doing during this time







Anyone know of a way to restore it?









Edit: I should mention that it's not in the recent folder of replays which is what I was hoping won't happen


----------



## poroboszcz

Always expand when you see someone turtling. Just think that 2 of his cannons = hatchery and he has nothing to attack you with. Seeing a cannon at his base you should have expanded straight away. Seeing more cannons, you should have expanded again. Instead of sacing roaches should have made drones only. Since cannons around base in lower leagues mean void rays or carriers in like 99% of cases you should have slowly got a spire/hydra den, put some spore colonies down, maybe sac an overlord just to make sure what you're up against and then totally own him with 5 vs 2 bases and ability to recreate your whole army in seconds









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Just always end up on this schedule. I'm a night person.

I'm the same, trying to change it though.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im also nocturnal, not going to bed till 3:30-6am every night.. also trying to stop though

Speaking of nighttime, I noticed a lot of better players play at night compared to the daytime


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Always expand when you see someone turtling. Just think that 2 of his cannons = hatchery and he has nothing to attack you with. Seeing a cannon at his base you should have expanded straight away. Seeing more cannons, you should have expanded again. Instead of sacing roaches should have made drones only. Since cannons around base in lower leagues mean void rays or carriers in like 99% of cases you should have slowly got a spire/hydra den, put some spore colonies down, maybe sac an overlord just to make sure what you're up against and then totally own him with 5 vs 2 bases and ability to recreate your whole army in seconds









The thing is, he had his structures and pc around and between them and had some gateways as well, so, it wasn't for certain. I had like 15 roaches+zerglings and thought that if I attacked at that moment, I would be able to wipe him out, but, I didn't realize how strong pc's were(always thought they were weaker than sc1, but, not case). I took down most of his pc and got to his probes but his last two were close to the nexus and took out my last 2 roaches, otherwise, I would have wiped out his probes and then used zerglings to take out the rest of his base. Once I realized that my attack failed, I build spire, but, he had some rays by then and by the time I got my lair(concentrated too much on attack) and spire, he had like 4-5 rays and was preparing to attack soon at which point there wasn't much I can go. He also had phenoix go over my base several times in the game probably looking for my overloads, but, I had them hidden away







Either way, I am still surprised that he didn't attack my other bases until after I started to build corruptors. Those things in group are great, especially something like 24 of them :thumbsup: I think his mistake was not attacking and he only expanded to the base near him, so, he was limited to gas in terms of units. On the other hand, I took 4 bases and had a ton of minerals(like 4k at one point) and decent amount of gas intake. He eventually got dt and attacked my main and other two bases which had not defense and no colonies or overseers for detection, but, at that point, I already had 5 brood lords, 5+ ultras along with some zerglings and roaches in his base. Too late of an attack, I would say







Yes, that's the one thing I love and hate about zerg. The ability to get a whole army in <1min depending on units but you also have to balance that with making drones due to the fact that they get used up with each structure you make









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm the same, trying to change it though.

Definitely not a good idea, had some night work at one point and I would sleep and not wake up till 3-4 in the afternoon and feel like I wasted the entire day, not fun and definitely not good for your health









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Im also nocturnal, not going to bed till 3:30-6am every night.. also trying to stop though

Speaking of nighttime, I noticed a lot of better players play at night compared to the daytime

I used to also stay till 3 in the morning, but, I've since stopped that. When you sleep till 3, you wake up tired and you still lose the same time you stayed up, so, why not sleep earlier, get up earlier with the same amount of time slept and with the rest of the day to do what you want


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Im also nocturnal, not going to bed till 3:30-6am every night.. also trying to stop though

Speaking of nighttime, I noticed a lot of better players play at night compared to the daytime

Lol I noticed this too.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I don't get enough turtlers, all i get are bastards that wall in and do early pushes


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 

Anyways, I wanted to ask, can someone around here watch my replay and give me tips/see what's wrong? Here it is... Thanks in advance.









EDIT: Also, would be good to know I think, what you thought of my opponent? How good was he?


I took a look and I'll give any advice I can. Even thought I dont play Protoss I'll give you any advice I can.

#1- it looks like you stopped producing probes at about 16 for a little while.
Keep pumping probes as you make units to keep up a really good economy.
At the point you had 16 probes, Terran had 23 SCVs and was getting a little ahead of you resource wise.

#2- good job with the fast expansion, but you still needed to make more probes. At 18:00 you were at 3 bases while the Terran was at 2, but you only had 37 units gathering resources while he had 34.

#3- do more scouting. Luckily the Terran was as focused on expansion as you were. If he had gone for a fast push, you probably would have lost one or both expansions. Send a Probe/ Zealot/ Observer around to see where the enemy is moving, if they are massing an army for a push etc. Losing the small amount of resources it takes to make that unit is more than worth it to know what is coming. Park a unit at the Xel'naga towers and keep an eye on the minimap.

The Terran didnt really produce any troops, just a lot of Missile Turrets. But you definitely massed a nice army and crushed your opponent so good job. Just work on a couple things and i think you'll probably do well!
Maybe some of the Protoss players here can give you advice on build orders etc.


----------



## DoomDash

God I love Terran. lol Zergs and Protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I don't get enough turtlers, all i get are bastards that wall in and do early pushes









lol, I get that a LOT as well. Most terrans and lately protoss just seal up their entrance and then build a large force and attack you. usually if you have a good # of roaches+zerglings, then you are fine, otherwise, it's pretty much GG









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
God I love Terran. lol Zergs and Protoss.

You won't be saying that once I beat you, provided I start playing more games of course


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
God I love Terran. lol Zergs and Protoss.

lol I just played a 3v3, all 6 players friends and friends of friends. PZT v TTT. PZT was warpgate+colossi, corrupters+broodlords, MMM. TTT was mass battlecruisers, MMM tanks, MM.

It was epic







(PZT side won. I was P)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol I just played a 3v3, all 6 players friends and friends of friends. PZT v TTT. PZT was warpgate+colossi, corrupters+broodlords, MMM. TTT was mass battlecruisers, MMM tanks, MM.

It was epic







(PZT side won. I was P)

Nice, that sounds like a blast, but, at least tell me that you didn't just finish the match, since, I know you were playing about 3-4 hours ago


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

You won't be saying that once I beat you, provided I start playing more games of course









Good luck with this







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Nice, that sounds like a blast, but, at least tell me that you didn't just finish the match, since, I know you were playing about 3-4 hours ago









Nah we must have started like less than 2 hours ago. Finished it in less than an hour.


----------



## DoomDash

lol what:

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/blog/395874#blog

fake boxer higher than the real boxer? Nice to boxer in the top 10 though







. He was my fav BW player.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Good luck with this







.

I'm pretty confident that I'll get at least a win against you, just not ATM









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Nah we must have started like less than 2 hours ago. Finished it in less than an hour.

oh, ok, either way, if it was 3-4 hr, it would have been epic throughout. Replay if possible?









Thought this was interesting and didn't realize it since I don't play terran:


You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
lol what:

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/blog/395874#blog

fake boxer higher than the real boxer? Nice to boxer in the top 10 though







. He was my fav BW player.

Interesting, very interesting and odd as well


----------



## DoomDash

I will only become better as well







. But you do have more room for improvement.

I plan on getting pretty good though. I need to give up Zerg / Protoss / 2v2 / FFA ect.

I wish I had more money so I could just not get job, play all day, and fly to korea.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I will only become better as well







. *But you do have more room for improvement. *
I plan on getting pretty good though. I need to give up Zerg / Protoss / 2v2 / FFA ect.

I wish I had more money so I could just not get job, play all day, and fly to korea.


I assume you will. You can say that again, lol. My biggest problem is making defense since I try to tech up too fast sometimes which means that MMM or zealot/stalker can be hard to deal with. Having said that, once I find the line between teching and defense, then I'll improve big time. The last game I played, I was constantly spreeding creep and eventually almost had the whole map other than my opponent's base, too bad I lost the replay







I have nowhere near the amount of games and experience that you do which means that with more games, my skills will increase faster, dare I say exponentially







I've been refining my games lately and trying to come up with new strategies, maybe I'll demonstrate some in a future game. As for giving up, I would get good with one race, guessing terran in your case and play the others when you want to unwind, you know for fun. There is a reason most pro play a single race and stick to it(Idra-Zerg, boxer-terran, HuK-protoss, etc....). While it would be nice to be able to play all day if you have the money, etc.... however life just won't have as much of a meaning to me at least. I mean, I would much rather have a job and a family and play in the time that I have left than to just focus my whole day on the game


----------



## burwij

Cellawerra is doing karaoke on his stream right now, rofl: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/user...?user=Cancella

Edit: Offline







He just did an amazing rendition of "It's My Life" by Bon Jovi.


----------



## DoomDash

Gah! I hate being 1 point away from an interval of 100.


----------



## DoomDash

Nevaziah tell me how much your points drop when you get into Diamond. I'm interested.

Thinking about picking up a korean account of SC2







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nevaziah tell me how much your points drop when you get into Diamond. I'm interested.

Thinking about picking up a korean account of SC2







.


Afaik you need korean social security number to get KR bnet account. Out of challenging opponents on US already? Maybe try EU first. I hear it's better than NA.


----------



## DoomDash

EU doesn't interest me. If I'm gonna go anything outside of NA it will be korea.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


EU doesn't interest me. If I'm gonna go anything outside of NA it will be korea.


European servers are harder than NA. Just look at Huk's record in EU, and then in NA. There is a pretty big difference in win %.

@Doomdash: Idra and TheLittleOne didn't make it too far in the GSL. You would need to devote your life to to the game to even have a slight chance of ever making decent money off this lol.

Btw half way to 1400 in 1v1, and I just passed 1500 in 2v2 randoms. About to break the top 10 in North America.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


European servers are harder than NA. Just look at Huk's record in EU, and then in NA. There is a pretty big difference in win %.

@Doomdash: Idra and TheLittleOne didn't make it too far in the GSL. You would need to devote your life to to the game to even have a slight chance of ever making decent money off this lol.

Btw half way to 1400 in 1v1, and I just passed 1500 in 2v2 randoms. About to break the top 10 in North America.


I'm not expecting to make money... but I just wanna wreck everyone on every forum I post on besides maybe teamliquid







. I think Korea would give me some good different experience that might help me on NA while my bonus pool builds.

You're being a hard person to catch in ladder but I think I might be gaining on you.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


i took a look and i'll give any advice i can. Even thought i dont play protoss i'll give you any advice i can.

#1- it looks like you stopped producing probes at about 16 for a little while.
Keep pumping probes as you make units to keep up a really good economy.
At the point you had 16 probes, terran had 23 scvs and was getting a little ahead of you resource wise.

#2- good job with the fast expansion, but you still needed to make more probes. At 18:00 you were at 3 bases while the terran was at 2, but you only had 37 units gathering resources while he had 34.

#3- do more scouting. Luckily the terran was as focused on expansion as you were. If he had gone for a fast push, you probably would have lost one or both expansions. Send a probe/ zealot/ observer around to see where the enemy is moving, if they are massing an army for a push etc. Losing the small amount of resources it takes to make that unit is more than worth it to know what is coming. Park a unit at the xel'naga towers and keep an eye on the minimap.

The terran didnt really produce any troops, just a lot of missile turrets. But you definitely massed a nice army and crushed your opponent so good job. Just work on a couple things and i think you'll probably do well!
Maybe some of the protoss players here can give you advice on build orders etc.


Thanks for the tips







, but I have a question if you don't mind...

Should I keep producing probes by maxing out the queue, or 1 at a time? Also, should I produce them in more than one base, or just my main base?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KaiZ51*


Thanks for the tips







, but I have a question if you don't mind...

Should I keep producing probes by maxing out the queue, or 1 at a time? Also, should I produce them in more than one base, or just my main base?


Both bases, 1-2 at a time. Never max out a queue, you could spend that money else where at that very second.


----------



## Nevaziah

Like Dash said, NEVER max the queue, for ANYTHING, not just workers. Zerg dont have to worry about this except maybe queueing upgrades or queens.

Once you get a lot of expos (3 to 4) or if you are pushing and you are on 2 expos, you can queue 2 workers per expo, that way you dont really let your macro slip too much.

At some point I had four expos with terran and i didnt even bother queue ANY cause at that point, 1 and 2 were saturated so I made them send their workers produced to 3 and 4.
At the begining, that extra 100-200 minerals is VERY VERY VERY important. Lategame, saturation of expos is more improtant, so slipping in an extra 100 on halfway produced probes to build another is okay, especially if you chronoboost. I never stop chronoboosting my probes (or using mules. I probably should be more careful with this for invisible units)


----------



## timf808

www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2 got lots of good replays... just my 2cents!


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timf808* 
www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2 got lots of good replays... just my 2cents!









I watched 2-3 games of the EG vs ROOT tourney last night:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158151

I couldn't help but be disappointed and thinking that I was as good if not better than some of the people playing.

Nothing compares to the GSL in terms of skill: www.gomtv.net.

I can't believe MLG is going to charge people to watch the tournament. Along with MLG and GSL it would cost someone $30-40 a month just to watch pro Starcraft! What bs. I will never pay for these, no one pays to watch another sport so why should we have to pay to watch SC.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Do any of you use custom maps/ etc for training APM etc?
I found a REALLY good custom map here:

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/multi...rainer-v0-941/

You have to work on multitasking while building/ fighting etc by:

#1- Constantly move a probe that is being chased by a Zergling. Only allows two or three queued actions on the probe

#2- Manage your base while never letting your mineral count get too high

#3- Rescue a stranded unit with a dropship etc

#4- Attack an enemy base, and at higher difficulty settings, fend off constant harassment at your base

I can only do it on the easier settings right now, but I can tell that it is definitely improving my multitasking/ APM.

I also use the Unit Tester map I found here:

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/unit-...ated-5-october

Allows you to make as many buildings/ units of any race you want and test them in combat.
Great for testing unit composition.

Hopefully these will help someone out and please let me know if any of you have found similar useful tools for improving SC2 play!


----------



## thiru

There's YABOT for testing or practicing build orders. 1v1 or solo/computer.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I watched 2-3 games of the EG vs ROOT tourney last night:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158151

I couldn't help but be disappointed and thinking that I was as good if not better than some of the people playing.

Nothing compares to the GSL in terms of skill: www.gomtv.net.

I can't believe MLG is going to charge people to watch the tournament. Along with MLG and GSL it would cost someone $30-40 a month just to watch pro Starcraft! What bs. I will never pay for these, no one pays to watch another sport so why should we have to pay to watch SC.

Sounds like you play really well, would love a game against you to see where I stack up







That's pretty expensive to watch, I mean $30-40 a month, much rather use that to get better internet or if you watch TV, probably more channels, netflix, etc....


----------



## thiru

There's always a way to watch Gomtv stuff (and they're often posted here).

Btw did you watch the day9 daily last night? was about zerg droning/unit building








(I learned that zerg had an additional resources, larvae).


----------



## timf808

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I watched 2-3 games of the EG vs ROOT tourney last night:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158151

I couldn't help but be disappointed and thinking that I was as good if not better than some of the people playing.

Nothing compares to the GSL in terms of skill: www.gomtv.net.

I can't believe MLG is going to charge people to watch the tournament. Along with MLG and GSL it would cost someone $30-40 a month just to watch pro Starcraft! What bs. I will never pay for these, no one pays to watch another sport so why should we have to pay to watch SC.

yah gomtv is good.. but pay to watch replays=gay

anyone else have good website for pro replays? preferably ones where u can actually DL the replay..


----------



## thiru

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
There's always a way to watch Gomtv stuff (and they're often posted here).

Btw did you watch the day9 daily last night? was about zerg droning/unit building








(I learned that zerg had an additional resources, larvae).

Interesting, any links? What do you mean additional resources?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Interesting, any links? What do you mean additional resources?

http://day9tv.blip.tv/

This is my favourite replays site, a lot of korean games: http://www.sc2rep.com/


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Interesting, any links? What do you mean additional resources?

It was posted a few days ago by Doomdash, can't find it.
I meant that larva is a resource for zerg that should be spent wisely. 3 larvae spent on a zergling is not the same thing as 3 larvae spent on a mutalisk.


----------



## puzzledazn

Throughout SC2, zerg was so underrated, but guess what? After the Intel GSL finals, Zerg was first place in the finals... Fruitdealer is just crazy...


----------



## KaiZ51

Thanks guys, will try to implement those tips on my games.

Also, Nevaziah, saw your sig and the link about the Control Groups, which I hadn't seen before (and was an answer to my earlier post), so sorry about that, and there was some good info there too which I will try to use.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
Throughout SC2, zerg was so underrated, but guess what? After the Intel GSL finals, Zerg was first place in the finals... Fruitdealer is just crazy...

as said before, the performance of one person does not really mean much in terms of balance. If you looked at his opponent, the terran played absolutely HORRIBLY.


----------



## Enfluenza

hey guys! got SC2 on sep.28th








i used to be a FPS and sandbox/fight sim kind of gamer and never tried to play RTS because i didnt like it.
but now i played SC2 and i LOVE IT!

anyway, since im a noob, im playing campaign so i can get better. im too paranoid and slow to play online








but should i try it? i just started RTS, and im nowhere close to having ubermicro








i'll obviously get butt raped by any opponent online








can some1 train me plz?


----------



## Tchernobyl

Play the "challenge" missions. They don't extensively help with basebuilding or so, but they do help somewhat with micro, and to figuring out what coutners what.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enfluenza* 
hey guys! got SC2 on sep.28th








i used to be a FPS and sandbox/fight sim kind of gamer and never tried to play RTS because i didnt like it.
but now i played SC2 and i LOVE IT!

anyway, since im a noob, im playing campaign so i can get better. im too paranoid and slow to play online








but should i try it? i just started RTS, and im nowhere close to having ubermicro








i'll obviously get butt raped by any opponent online








can some1 train me plz?

Yeah you should. There's a league for everyone's level so that you stay at 50% wins.

Play the campaign, do the challenges, play against the computer (on faster speed) and jump into ladder. Don't do the 50 practice games because they don't represent how ladder games are played.

And you can add me if you want some practice against Protoss, Semirhage #522. I'm assuming you have a European version.

edit: oh lol I thought i read United Kingdom in your info.


----------



## Enfluenza

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Play the "challenge" missions. They don't extensively help with basebuilding or so, but they do help somewhat with micro, and to figuring out what coutners what.

ok i'll try that out

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah you should. There's a league for everyone's level so that you stay at 50% wins.

Play the campaign, do the challenges, play against the computer (on faster speed) and jump into ladder. Don't do the 50 practice games because they don't represent how ladder games are played.

And you can add me if you want some practice against Protoss, Semirhage #522. I'm assuming you have a European version.

cool i'll take a look at the challenges
btw i have the USA version i think.
can i still practice with you?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It was posted a few days ago by Doomdash, can't find it.
I meant that larva is a resource for zerg that should be spent wisely. 3 larvae spent on a zergling is not the same thing as 3 larvae spent on a mutalisk.

oh, ok, thought you meant something else, but, yes, you are indeed correct. That's something that both protoss and terran don't have to deal with since they have their own structures for different units, so, it's both an advantage due to being able to build similar units all at the same time(I've built 11+ mutalisks at one point using this) and a disadvantage since you have to split up your larvae and decide whether it's important to make a drone now or make some defense/offense and drone later









Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
Throughout SC2, zerg was so underrated, but guess what? After the Intel GSL finals, Zerg was first place in the finals... Fruitdealer is just crazy...

See below.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
as said before, the performance of one person does not really mean much in terms of balance. If you looked at his opponent, the terran played absolutely HORRIBLY.

Thank you. Really, just because some guy plays the game probably around 10hr/day(someone mentioned it in this thread) and plays really well with a race doesn't mean that the game is balanced, etc....









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Play the "challenge" missions. They don't extensively help with basebuilding or so, but they do help somewhat with micro, and to figuring out what coutners what.

Agreed. Playing through the campaign and the challenges will give ypu a good idea of how terran plays, likewise with protoss, just not as many missions. As for zerg, you'll going to have to play vs. AI to get an idea of the structures, units, etc....


----------



## Enfluenza

btw, what are the advantages and disadvantages of terran, protoss, and zerg?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah you should. There's a league for everyone's level so that you stay at 50% wins.

Play the campaign, do the challenges, play against the computer (on faster speed) and jump into ladder. Don't do the 50 practice games because they don't represent how ladder games are played.

And you can add me if you want some practice against Protoss, Semirhage #522. I'm assuming you have a European version.

edit: oh lol I thought i read United Kingdom in your info.

I disagree with the practice matches part. I think he should play a couple to get a feeling for the maps, units and what's it like to play a game against another opponent. True, they get you to turtle in, the speed is slower and you don't get as much satisfaction when you win, but, that's what's waiting for him when he plays in the league anyways


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enfluenza* 
btw, what are the advantages and disadvantages of terran, protoss, and zerg?

Protoss and terran are more user-friendly and you should have a good idea of how to play terran and protoss from the campaign. Zerg on the other hand, you will have to play some AI games to get a good idea of the units, it requires more micro and can be hard for newbies, but, with all races, practice makes perfect


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I disagree with the practice matches part. I think he should play a couple to get a feeling for the maps, units and what's it like to play a game against another opponent. True, they get you to turtle in, the speed is slower and you don't get as much satisfaction when you win, but, that's what's waiting for him when he plays in the league anyways









I played 4. I can guarantee you I didn't learn anything in those games. You'll learn much more with 5 real games than 5 practice games.

And if he loses most of the placement games, let's be honest he's not going to start anywhere else than bronze league if he just started RTSs. Don't worry, you can get to silver quickly if you don't belong in bronze









Besides losing 5 games is nothing in the long run.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I played 4. I can guarantee you I didn't learn anything in those games. You'll learn much more with 5 real games than 5 practice games.

And if he loses most of the placement games, let's be honest he's not going to start anywhere else than bronze league if he just started RTSs. Don't worry, you can get to silver quickly if you don't belong in bronze









Besides losing 5 games is nothing in the long run.

I never did say you will learn a ton, but, I mostly meant that he was learn about the maps in terms of possible strategies, about the units if is playing zerg, so, he'll have some time to experiment and it can be discouraging to lose all 5 league games if he was to just jump in without having tried the maps or gotten used to the race that he wants to play with


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I never did say you will learn a ton, but, I mostly meant that he was learn about the maps in terms of possible strategies, about the units if is playing zerg, so, he'll have some time to experiment and it can be discouraging to lose all 5 league games if he was to just jump in without having tried the maps or gotten used to the race that he wants to play with









That's why I said play against the computer (if you don't know which maps are used in ladder games, click on map preferences in multiplayer), you'll learn more about them. Otherwise he'll start a ladder and start wondering where the rocks are and why the game is going so fast








And he won't learn any strategies in practice games except blink/reaper harass and broodlord/muta/void ray/BC rushes. And nydus worm (I pulled that one off myself in a practice game







)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
That's why I said play against the computer (if you don't know which maps are used in ladder games, click on map preferences in multiplayer), you'll learn more about them. Otherwise he'll start a ladder and start wondering where the rocks are and why the game is going so fast








And he won't learn any strategies in practice games except blink/reaper harass and broodlord/muta/void ray/BC rushes. And nydus worm (I pulled that one off myself in a practice game







)

I also said the same thing about the match against the comp in a previous post. Yes, one thing I did notice after playing in the practice league was that the speed of the game was much faster in the actual league, personally I like it at faster or even fastest like in sc1, fast or normal just bores me







As for the nydus worm, I pulled that off in the practice leagues many times and 99% of the time it works since most opponents are too busy to watch a worm pop up behind their worker lines and proceed to shred their cc and workers to bit before they have time to react







The worm are a great addition to sc2 and can be great if used wisely(put one in your base to another to move units across the map instantly). Just look at how fruitseller uses them


----------



## thiagocosta85

Hello there guys, I don't know if you remember me... But, I am the guy who sent many ASM codes to blizzard, source codes of hacks, and source code of Warden Bypasser(spoof offset) ...

AS you know, that was done, to help blizzard kill all those cheaters and improve warden module's potency...

THEY BANNED MY ACCOUNT !!!
FOR NOT CHEATING !!!
FOR KNOWING HOW TO CHEAT !!!

Even though I sent it to help them...

LOL ?
LOL ?
ROFL ?

It is aggravating... All the hack's i made where tested against my uncle, not against other players lol. I was even able to spawn carrier with warpgate with out fleet beacon ready LOL.

I helped them how to prevent, any unit warp, drop hack, anti screen spoof lock (this allows the cheater to watch fog, and you don't know his/shes watching fog.Plus alot more stuff...

LOL... After helping them make the game better, they banned my account...
ROFL?

Not only they banned my account, but they haven't fixed any of the problems... All the hacks still working/possible to do, and they are also undetectible(100% undetectible) if done correctely...

:'( ... This is what I get for trying to help us get rid of cheaters... SOme times I feel like causing chaos by providing all cheaters with all in 1 hacks for free from oversea IP, knowing that the Blizzard Programmers aren't really THATTTTT good... They're OK. (ASM/REVERSE COMPATIBLE).


----------



## thiru

Ouch, that's harsh.
Call support?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
as said before, the performance of one person does not really mean much in terms of balance. If you looked at his opponent, the terran played absolutely HORRIBLY.

He beat like 4 other Terrans to get there you know.


----------



## thiru

Yeah. I don't know who's the best Terran but when he played TOP I think they said it was probably going to be their hardest match.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
He beat like 4 other Terrans to get there you know.

Links to those games? Would be interesting to watch fruitseller take on terrans







Preferably youtube, but, not sure if husky or day9 would have those, alternatively maybe artosis?


----------



## Oktoberfest

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
as said before, the performance of one person does not really mean much in terms of balance. If you looked at his opponent, the terran played absolutely HORRIBLY.

what's funny is that Rainbow is just playing SC2 for fun


----------



## DoomDash

Man I linked to all the games like 100 times:
http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/

I really recommend greasemonkey + that script ( with firefox ). It's nice streaming them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Ouch, that's harsh.
Call support?

x2, having said that, it's quite possible that they assumed that you were hacking all along and was hoping to get some pass









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Man I linked to all the games like 100 times:
http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/

I really recommend greasemonkey + that script ( with firefox ). It's nice streaming them.

First time I see this link in this thread







I've seen the gomtv one and most youtube









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oktoberfest* 
what's funny is that Rainbow is just playing SC2 for fun

No clue who Rainbow is


----------



## timf808

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Man I linked to all the games like 100 times:
http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/

I really recommend greasemonkey + that script ( with firefox ). It's nice streaming them.

nice link. thx


----------



## thiru

Rainbow, I'm assuming Into the Rainbow, is HopeTorture's old id. Probably in SC1.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
oh, ok, either way, if it was 3-4 hr, it would have been epic throughout. Replay if possible?









Here it is.

edit: disclaimer: everyone played badly


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
He beat like 4 other Terrans to get there you know.

Perhaps he did, and i'm not saying he isn't an amazing player, but in those games he just never seemed like any threat at all, never really did any sort of push or was on the offensive, which against Cool was an obvious mistake (he takes over the entire map)


----------



## blackedv

man im starting to get into playing sc2 but it placed me in gold league 4v4 and i have yet to win a match. i apparently have alot more to learn


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Perhaps he did, and i'm not saying he isn't an amazing player, but in those games he just never seemed like any threat at all, never really did any sort of push or was on the offensive, which against Cool was an obvious mistake (he takes over the entire map)









The other played played much different yet no one could beat him. I just think cool's style is the future or Zerg play. I agree with day9 when he said that the next race to be OP is protoss, followed by Zerg ( with out patches ). Game is still new, people are still playing Zerg specifically ******ed. mid-to-late game Zerg has the best vision in the damn game ( overlords, creep ). Most Zergs don't even use overlords correct.


----------



## poroboszcz

Super high level PvP I just played with surprising conclusion. This is ladder against 1000+ diamond toss, even though the game may not look like it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The other played played much different yet no one could beat him. I just think cool's style is the future or Zerg play. I agree with day9 when he said that the next race to be OP is protoss, followed by Zerg ( with out patches ). Game is still new, people are still playing Zerg specifically ******ed. mid-to-late game Zerg has the best vision in the damn game ( overlords, creep ). Most Zergs don't even use overlords correct.


specifically ******ed, as in bad?








Well, as for overloads, I think the fact that they can't detect hidden units is not a good idea. I mean they were fine in SC1, while, do they totally change that now and overseers cost a bundle(50/100) which could be put to build a mutalisks with 50 more minerals, so, imagine upgrading 30 of these, that's 1500, so, 15 mutalisks









Just had a couple of games with Nevaziath and thiru. FFA, we got crushed by Nevaziath, since, both me and thiru went against each other and he just massed and took us out







As for the other games, last game with thiru was very interesting. If I had a couple of overseer and some more corruptors, it would have went differently, since, I had mutalisks in his base at the same time and wiped out most of his probes and structures







Soo close, I'll win next time though


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


specifically ******ed, as in bad?








Well, as for overloads, I think the fact that they can't detect hidden units is not a good idea. I mean they were fine in SC1, while, do they totally change that now and overseers cost a bundle(50/100) which could be put to build a mutalisks with 50 more minerals, so, imagine upgrading 30 of these, that's 1500, so, 15 mutalisks









Just had a couple of games with Nevaziath and thiru. FFA, we got crushed by Nevaziath, since, both me and thiru went against each other and he just massed and took us out







As for the other games, last game with thiru was very interesting. If I had a couple of overseer and some more corruptors, it would have went differently, since, I had mutalisks in his base at the same time and wiped out most of his probes and structures







Soo close, I'll win next time though










If you'd gone for more corrupters instead of more roaches, my ground army being already bigger than yours, it wouldn't have helped much even if you killed my mothership. And I didn't use vortex, which I had 5 seconds after the battle started.

Besides you'd have a hard time winning the base trade race with 8 mutas left


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you'd gone for more corrupters instead of more roaches, my ground army being already bigger than yours, it wouldn't have helped much even if you killed my mothership. And I didn't use vortex, which I had 5 seconds after the battle started.

Besides you'd have a hard time winning the base trade race with 8 mutas left










Sounds like a challenge







Actually, I could have won for one reason. I had a ton of money and lots of drones meaning lots of hatcheries all over map and mutalisks outrun your units which means I could go destroy all your nexus and then the rest of your stuff while you try and catch me







I just forgot to build a hatchery before you killed my last structure







I might be up for one more games in 10, so, we could try that again


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Super high level PvP I just played with surprising conclusion. This is ladder against 1000+ diamond toss, even though the game may not look like it.










LOL go screw your dead grama.

that red player was pretty bad, but canon rush by blue was just ******ed too.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Ouch, that's harsh.
Call support?

Yes...
I called support, waited about 2 hours in line, the representative was so rude, and said I was banned for cheating, and if I would like to play I would have to buy another copy of the game.

I told him, how was I cheating? No further information was given. I tryed and tryed to talk to his supervisor, he said there wasn't one available...

Now I want to spread out the chaos so bad, that there will be people warping carriers. with zealot cooldown time. I am so mad man...

They don't even treat me right on the phone after all the crazy hours I spent to send them everything they need to know to counter ANY cheating software... ***? ...

We need chaos?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Yes...
I called support, waited about 2 hours in line, the representative was so rude, and said I was banned for cheating, and if I would like to play I would have to buy another copy of the game.

I told him, how was I cheating? No further information was given. I tryed and tryed to talk to his supervisor, he said there wasn't one available...

Now I want to spread out the chaos so bad, that there will be people warping carriers. with zealot cooldown time. I am so mad man...

They don't even treat me right on the phone after all the crazy hours I spent to send them everything they need to know to counter ANY cheating software... ***? ...

We need chaos?

Look at it from their perspective. They saw you send them the cheats and even though you had good intents, they are still cheats in the end, so, they banned you, otherwise, every other cheater will say, I was only testing said cheat to see if it works and planned to send it to you, so, that they get a free pass


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sounds like a challenge







Actually, I could have won for one reason. I had a ton of money and lots of drones meaning lots of hatcheries all over map and mutalisks outrun your units which means I could go destroy all your nexus and then the rest of your stuff while you try and catch me







I just forgot to build a hatchery before you killed my last structure







I might be up for one more games in 10, so, we could try that again










That's a lot of "IF"s








Even if you had macroed a little better or made a better choice of unit composition before the last battle, the army effectiveness (because of my mothership + 4 carriers) discrepancy was too big. I would have enough to protect my nexus while hunting your hatches









The reason you lost was macro, like all games at our level. You don't have that zerg macro yet and your harass (usually) isn't enough to make me stay in my base.
Also your 3rd expand should have been the ones closest to you, away from me, and you would have needed to expand creep much faster to cover all that ground.

edit: also Protoss fast expand seems really strong against zerg. Dunno if there's a way other than double expanding yourself to deal with it (apart from having a macro 10x times better than mine like Doomdash







). Maybe baneling bust? but still I can just build ALL my buildings on my wall and a baneling bust won't do much.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85*


Yes...
I called support, waited about 2 hours in line, the representative was so rude, and said I was banned for cheating, and if I would like to play I would have to buy another copy of the game.

I told him, how was I cheating? No further information was given. I tryed and tryed to talk to his supervisor, he said there wasn't one available...

Now I want to spread out the chaos so bad, that there will be people warping carriers. with zealot cooldown time. I am so mad man...

They don't even treat me right on the phone after all the crazy hours I spent to send them everything they need to know to counter ANY cheating software... ***? ...

We need chaos?


Please don't







even if you were in the right


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Look at it from their perspective. They saw you send them the cheats and even though you had good intents, they are still cheats in the end, so, they banned you, otherwise, every other cheater will say, I was only testing said cheat to see if it works and planned to send it to you, so, that they get a free pass











Well I would understand but...

After sending them over 30 Megs of source code, plain text pretty much with compiling instructions and tracing instructions... Step by Step so they could counter it LOL...
If i was trying to cheat, I wouldn't be sending them all the sources lol...

Also, today I was playing with my new account (had to buy a new copy for $60.00) and I got dropped from the game... I know it was a hacker because he didn't get a score and I didn't get a score... so yeah...

That can be countered, I told them how, and they take another $60.00 away from me? ... ***.

Do you know how many hackers there are? LOL !!! ALOT ALOT ALOT !!!!... They banned about 4000 accounts recently... Just on detected people... What about the ones who know how to make it undetectible? ... ROFL !!!!

It is chaos AS IS... lol... Fkin blizzard man... I hate them now.

**** NOTE ****
Note that I was NOT detected hacking... Warden did not catch me, or they would have told me I was detected...


----------



## DoomDash

Lost the oc.net tournament 2-3!







.


----------



## Epona

Ha, I just played a game against a guy who was awful. He didn't expand until way late, he only built marines, a few marauders, and banshees. He started off with four barracks, one with tech lab and three with reactors. He was macroing up, but was afraid of my 2 siege tanks, so he didn't attack, allowing me to macro up an army. The real funny part about all this, is that he stimmed his units 3 times, but had no medivacs, so when I eventually did fight him (at his base, mind you), his whole army died within seconds. He then claimed I was hacking and said 'flagging this game. gg to your account'.

tl;dr: Idiot doesn't understand the game, calls me a hacker. >_<


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lost the Overclock.net tournament 2-3!







.


Sorry to hear that, all that means is your opponent is on your list for the people to beat, take it as a challenge instead









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Epona*


Ha, I just played a game against a guy who was awful. He didn't expand until way late, he only built marines, a few marauders, and banshees. He started off with four barracks, one with tech lab and three with reactors. He was macroing up, but was afraid of my 2 siege tanks, so he didn't attack, allowing me to macro up an army. The real funny part about all this, is that he stimmed his units 3 times, but had no medivacs, so when I eventually did fight him (at his base, mind you), his whole army died within seconds. He then claimed I was hacking and said 'flagging this game. gg to your account'.

tl;dr: Idiot doesn't understand the game, calls me a hacker. >_<


This must be the game thiru was telling me about. He said that by the time he attacked, he stimmed 4 times and marauders were down to their 30-40s, lol, that must have been an easy MM ball to deal with









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


That's a lot of "IF"s








Even if you had macroed a little better or made a better choice of unit composition before the last battle, the army effectiveness (because of my mothership + 4 carriers) discrepancy was too big. I would have enough to protect my nexus while hunting your hatches









The reason you lost was macro, like all games at our level. You don't have that zerg macro yet and your harass (usually) isn't enough to make me stay in my base.
Also your 3rd expand should have been the ones closest to you, away from me, and you would have needed to expand creep much faster to cover all that ground.


True, but, one can hope, can't he?







My harasses are pretty weak. 2 games before this one, I attacked your nexus exp with my burrowed roaches, you wiped them out since you had an observer(had no clue) and then proceeded to crush my base since I barely had defense, so, it's these kind of mistakes that can cost you a game and have done that to me several times in our games. Too bad, those 2 games that I was about to win, I got disconnected(scrap station, was harassing your probes) and game froze(the one where you tried to run up my choke and lost half your units, yes, that one







) Well, for that, I tried to keep it far to avoid you noticing it, but, doesn't seem to work









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


edit: also Protoss fast expand seems really strong against zerg. Dunno if there's a way other than double expanding yourself to deal with it (apart from having a macro 10x times better than mine like Doomdash







). Maybe baneling bust? but still I can just build ALL my buildings on my wall and a baneling bust won't do much.

Please don't







even if you were in the right


It does seem strong vs. zerg, but, there are ways. Using a worm filled with roaches will take down your nexus completely. I can use banelings to attack as well. Brood lords and ultralisks if I can tech up to them will make some noticeable damage even if you are locked in







Don't worry, my macro increases with every game I play. I just don't have the time to practice a ton and not willing to sit and play like 20 games a day to get better


----------



## DoomDash

It was a blast and I'm not really sad about it. I did pretty well, and he was a good opponent. No reason to kill myself over it. He is like 1600+ Diamond lol. I look forward to playing with him more in the future







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Here it is.

edit: disclaimer: everyone played badly










Frustratingly funny how nobody supported eachother's teammates.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Here it is.

edit: disclaimer: everyone played badly











Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Frustratingly funny how nobody supported eachother's teammates.


Yep. I had one teammate messing around by massing Cattle Bruisers (on 1 base mind you), and was left with no where to expand within our walls (Odd man out on that map). When I did attempt to expand, I ran into Thiru at the gold, and had no counter for the collosus (didn't have the resources for Vikings atm).

When we get 6-8ppl together, we don't always play very seriously (hence the 1 base Cattle Bruiser attempt).


----------



## DoomDash

Man I love TvZ. My current favorite match up.

EDIT

Morrow switching to Zerg full time:

Quote:



gonna play terran fulltime for 1-3 weeks to wrap up my last going tournaments with hopefully nice results. i have decided to switch to zerg so i will stop sign up for new tournaments until i am at least 2k rating with zerg.
once i finish these ongoing tournaments i will start practice zerg with all my practice time
sry for no replay pack. will start updating this thread once im back on track with z
there is a possibility that i decide to switch back to terran once again in the future but as it is right now im pretty convinced that i want to be a zerg user


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Interesting. Perhaps he's a little tired of being too op.







I

Funny Funday Monday from Day 9

Terrans without any marine maurader tanks

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Interesting. Perhaps he's a little tired of being too op.










Maybe he's ready for the next level of OP. Day9 says it all the time. Next in line to be OP is Toss, then Zerg... with no patches







.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158705

Wow. Bad choice Blizzard.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85*


Yes...
I called support, waited about 2 hours in line, the representative was so rude, and said I was banned for cheating, and if I would like to play I would have to buy another copy of the game.

I told him, how was I cheating? No further information was given. I tryed and tryed to talk to his supervisor, he said there wasn't one available...

Now I want to spread out the chaos so bad, that there will be people warping carriers. with zealot cooldown time. I am so mad man...

They don't even treat me right on the phone after all the crazy hours I spent to send them everything they need to know to counter ANY cheating software... ***? ...

We need chaos?


Sure, go ahead. Would love to see that. What did you expect anyway? You were cheating - you got banned. Fair enough for me. Seems their system works after all and you cheats were not so undetectable as you thought.

So you can warp in carriers without modifying game memory (that's what I assume you mean by undetectable) eh? At least post a video on youtube of you doing it in a ladder game and maybe someone will believe you. Try TL.net to spread this information, although they will probably ban you if you keep your posts like this and don't have any kind of proof. If you have any skills whatsoever there's also coding and programming section on these forums.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lost the Overclock.net tournament 2-3!







.


Can we see the replays please? Is it going to be casted anywhere as initially planned?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 

Can we see the replays please? Is it going to be casted anywhere as initially planned?


I have the replays as well as oktoberfest probably. The guys running the tournament kinda disappeared so nothing will be cast. We kind of finished the tournament on our own terms.

I can perhaps upload the replays for you guys. Not the best games but not the worst. Over all pretty close but I try something I shouldn't have last game.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True, but, one can hope, can't he?







My harasses are pretty weak. 2 games before this one, I attacked your nexus exp with my burrowed roaches, you wiped them out since you had an observer(had no clue) and then proceeded to crush my base since I barely had defense, so, it's these kind of mistakes that can cost you a game and have done that to me several times in our games. Too bad, those 2 games that I was about to win, I got disconnected(scrap station, was harassing your probes) and game froze(the one where you tried to run up my choke and lost half your units, yes, that one







) Well, for that, I tried to keep it far to avoid you noticing it, but, doesn't seem to work









It does seem strong vs. zerg, but, there are ways. Using a worm filled with roaches will take down your nexus completely. I can use banelings to attack as well. Brood lords and ultralisks if I can tech up to them will make some noticeable damage even if you are locked in







Don't worry, my macro increases with every game I play. I just don't have the time to practice a ton and not willing to sit and play like 20 games a day to get better









Worms should not work (as in, I should not let them work). Usually my pylons cover my hole base but both times I left a tiny dark spot you exploited lol. Once spotted I can just warp in a few zealots or stalkers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Frustratingly funny how nobody supported eachother's teammates.

In our team (PTZ) we had a ventrilo issue so team discussion was at the bare minimum. Zerg said he was ok so I didn't help him, I didn't have issues myself, and the Terran was doing his own thing lol. On the other team I'm not sure what happened.
But yeah everyone played badly because hey this is 3v3 against friends









Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Yep. I had one teammate messing around by massing Cattle Bruisers (on 1 base mind you), and was left with no where to expand within our walls (Odd man out on that map). When I did attempt to expand, I ran into Thiru at the gold, and had no counter for the collosus (didn't have the resources for Vikings atm).

When we get 6-8ppl together, we don't always play very seriously (hence the 1 base Cattle Bruiser attempt).

I still say we should have tried the next Funday Monday









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Interesting. Perhaps he's a little tired of being too op.







I

Funny Funday Monday from Day 9

Terrans without any marine maurader tanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XowDGefmDYU

Best funday monday ever.
And I think he's going zerg to show that he has skills and isn't just relying on tactics that are considered OP by some.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158705

Wow. Bad choice Blizzard.

That sounds really bad lol.


----------



## DoomDash

oc.net finals :
http://www.MegaShare.com/2643100


----------



## MicahFett

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Well I would understand but...

After sending them over 30 Megs of source code, plain text pretty much with compiling instructions and tracing instructions... Step by Step so they could counter it LOL...
If i was trying to cheat, I wouldn't be sending them all the sources lol...

Also, today I was playing with my new account (had to buy a new copy for $60.00) and I got dropped from the game... I know it was a hacker because he didn't get a score and I didn't get a score... so yeah...

That can be countered, I told them how, and they take another $60.00 away from me? ... ***.

Do you know how many hackers there are? LOL !!! ALOT ALOT ALOT !!!!... They banned about 4000 accounts recently... Just on detected people... What about the ones who know how to make it undetectible? ... ROFL !!!!

It is chaos AS IS... lol... Fkin blizzard man... I hate them now.

**** NOTE ****
Note that I was NOT detected hacking... Warden did not catch me, or they would have told me I was detected...

Sorry to hear how that turned out for you. I'd definitely recommend NOT trying to instigate further hacking by spreading additional hacks; that will just ruin the game for many, many other people. Blizz may have banned your first account but hopefully they continue to crack down on hacks, perhaps even using the information you gave them.

Just focus your time playing the game and enjoying the legit match-ups you get to play. After all, if you spread more hack info, it will just make other game players pay the penalty and instead of hurting blizzard you'll just be hurting the legit players out there.

There's no vindication in that.


----------



## thiru

Anyone interested in a little something for this weekend? like a sunday or saturday King of the hill?


----------



## DoomDash

King of the Hill? I remember playing something like that in Quake II but I don't remember how it worked. I'm down hopefully.


----------



## Nevaziah

thiagocosta85, you also gotta keep in mind that Blizzard and the Starcraft francise is a business. I am NOT by any means a programmer nor do I even know the basics of it, but I will use an analogy I know well. IF you work in a bank. And you deal with large sums of money and a LOT of transactions, transfer payemnts etc. You have to put controls in place to prevent fraud, loss, errors etc.
BUT, if you do 1 million $ net gain worth of transactions, you DONT want your controls to cost you 500 000$, it wouldnt be economicaly viable. So at some point you have to balance it out. cost-benefit ratio...

Maybe from their end, implementing the changes may not be cost effective, but also keeping in mind the probability of someone ACTUALLy hacking and spawning in units AND not being detected by either the system, OR their opponent watching the replay when something fishy is going on, it also could makes sense. Also keep in mind that the average person cannot do the spawn hacks. Maybe the map hacks yes cause they are preety much readily available after a while...

I do however agree with you. If what you say is true and you DIDNT hack playing multiplayer and that you only sent them the code and how to fix it, you`re right, that doesnt warrant a ban.but LIke MIcahFett said, just play the game, and hope they do investigate what you did send.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
King of the Hill? I remember playing something like that in Quake II but I don't remember how it worked. I'm down hopefully.

You've never watched a KOTH on a stream?
It's (at least in SC2 today) a sort of tournament where 2 players play 1 game normally, winner stays and plays against the next contestant and so on.
It's less interesting than a tournament of course, but requires much less planning and allows more flexible times since the people with the least free time left will play first and other people will show up later.

The only problem is YOU (lol) and other high levels who would get bored or something. That could be solved with penalties (like playing with 10% less health every time you win after the second or third time in a row) or we can come up with something else.

On a side note, traditionally a king of the hill is a FPS or RTS game where one side has to control and defend a specific area for a set amount of time to win. The concept was ported over with "winning"="hill".


----------



## DoomDash

I'd be down for that. I don't get bored of crushing newbs







. But I can also turn down my health I don't care.

and no I don't really watch streams.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'd be down for that. I don't get bored of crushing newbs







. But I can also turn down my health I don't care.

and no I don't really watch streams.

Cool









It also gives an opportunity to learn things as hopefully the others can observe without lag (and if the players are willing).

Also if you guys have a microphone we can use OCN's ventrilo for VOIP (you have to sign up for it in advance if you haven't done it yet though).


----------



## DoomDash

No mic on this puter yet. I could use my PS3 EyeToy I guess.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Anyone interested in a little something for this weekend? like a sunday or saturday King of the hill?

I'll be down for that, thanks for the explanation









@DoomDash A little too confident, are we not?







-> (I don't get bored of crushing newbs







)

Edit: Regarding that map, it seems interesting if the spawn positions are across like what people have mentioned. My major complaint about the current pool maps is that there isn't any wide open spaces to battle in. Everywhere, there is always some kind of a choke point, whether its the ramp to your main, the area leading to your exp, the middle of the map and that to me, means that units with higher range, marines to roaches for example have a bigger advantage because they don't have to move closer to attack the opponent while roaches will keep fighting so to speak to move to the front, but, that's mostly a zerg thing


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I'll be down for that, thanks for the explanation









@DoomDash A little too confident, are we not?







-> (I don't get bored of crushing newbs







)

Im in aswell, although Im gonna be busy around 11am to 3pm ish , then 7pm+ on saturday.


----------



## this n00b again

any diamond ranked players here?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *this n00b again* 
any diamond ranked players here?

Far as I know, Doom and Cory are the only diamond ranked players here


----------



## deanlewandowski

Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (inc case of Void Ray) and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?
Banelings seem to help a bit. Should I be using Infestors for Fungal Growth more?
What types of upgrades should I be getting against this type of play/ force?


----------



## Epona

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Far as I know, Doom and Cory are the only diamond ranked players here









Argosy is diamond, but he doesn't play during the school year otherwise his grades drop.


----------



## thiru

IIRC Doomdash, Ajax, Cory, Twistacles, Oktoberfest are diamond, plus a few others who've claimed they were diamond in other threads.

There's only one diamond from OCN from Europe AFAIK though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (inc case of Void Ray) and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?
Banelings seem to help a bit. Should I be using Infestors for Fungal Growth more?
What types of upgrades should I be getting against this type of play/ force?

Well, look at it this way. They turtle and tech to tier 3. Why not do the same for starters? Looking at the unit composition, zealots and colossus can only attack ground and both can be attacked by air units. Stalkers can attack both air and ground so they are irrelevant to that point. I think building a lot of mutalisks and some banelings+zerglings+roaches would be perfect, since, his units will concentrate on mostly your ground units. Your banelings will have him a little concerned and he will try to eliminate them first leaving your zerglings and roaches to do some work and you could use your mutalisks to take out his stalkers then colossus since they are the most dangerous to them. Personally, if I knew that he is going that route, I would concentrate on teching up to brood lords and corruptors. The brood lords will easily dispatch of the zealots and stalkers before they get in range and corruptors can take down colossus due to their height. Problem solved and you get to attack his main with your brood lords, even with his photo cannons, he is history


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (inc case of Void Ray) and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?
Banelings seem to help a bit. Should I be using Infestors for Fungal Growth more?
What types of upgrades should I be getting against this type of play/ force?

Doesn't matter what race you are, expand and keep him in his base. Don't let him get anything more than his natural.
And as a zerg, get mutalisks to harass and keep him in his base (do not lose them). If he builds a load of turrets that's less minerals for units. Mutas are also decent (and very good if you don't let him charge) against void rays.

If he tries to expand, sick your mutas on it. If his army is with it, send your mutas to his base. And whenever his army is out of position (on the open or his army is forming a line instead of being massed up) attack.
Also tech yourself. Broodlords and ultralisks are awesome.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (inc case of Void Ray) and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?
Banelings seem to help a bit. Should I be using Infestors for Fungal Growth more?
What types of upgrades should I be getting against this type of play/ force?


I feel banelings aren't that useful against protoss. It's really tough for zerg to stop a big army of protoss with a lot of colossi, but genereally w/o colossus & templars, zerg should be able to handle the army. In the bronze league, I would just go mutas and harass them using their mobility. Also, if you know they are building cannons and just turtling, you can either go for a timing push or just expand more, thus being able to outproduce him. My big advice is don't rely on towers, build forces and always use them to keep the other guy on his toes.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (*inc case of Void Ray)* and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?

THings to note underlined.

1. *If your opponent is going cannons, he CANT HAVE THAT MANY UNITS. so you DONT NEED TO MAKE ANY. DRONE UP*!!!!! YEAH!!! Make 6 lings and move around the perimeter to scout what you can and take ALL the xel naga towers with a ling and place lords around. You can move the lings in and out of his natural to hinder his expo from going down while you saturate your main and your expo(s). Dont rely only on the drone to scout or only on the towers to warn you or only on the overlords to see. Use EVERYTHING.

2. *To make sure you respond adequately to whatever the opponent does, send your exploration drone at 10 supply. Run up in his base and look around EVERYWHERE*. if he only makes a forge, great, youknow to take your natural expansion and drone up. try to keep the drone in his base alive, moving around and using the queue move.

3. *You are making waaaay too many type of units**. as a zerg, you should not make units JUST IN CASE*. make that pool, upgrade to lair. make the hydra den and the upgrade, since hydra is ALWAYS good against protoss, even against colossi, at least you have a base unit and you can support it with corruptors, brood lords, ultras, infestors or lings. but dont comit unit you explore once that den is down. rhed5 is right, I dont think i will ever recomend anyone go banelings vs protoss ...

4. Once the den is down , evolve a lord into an overseer or just send an overlord and look at his base. look EVERYWHERE you can you can to see what he is going for, even if you have to sac the overseer/overlord (you shouldnt mind since you macro better while he went defense. If you see a lot of gateways, throw down a roach warden and a spire (example: 6 gateways and 2 robo bays). If you see a LOT of stargates, make a spire and just upgrade your hydra attacks and carapace.

Once you have the spire up and you see colossi, spawn corruptors. for each colossus you see, make about 3 corruptors. DONT worry about what to do with them once the colossi are dead.( you tech up and get the dreaded Brood Lord. I have NEVER lost a game against toss when I had 5 brood lords up) Even when he makes phoenix after, its usually to late cause i can already make corruptors and hydraz.
If you see only gateway units, make a lot of hydraz and tech up to hive for the Ultralisk.

5. *I ALWAYS make 2 Queens per hatchery*. You dont have to get two right away, but get one each at least, and then another when you can afford it. WHy? later on you may need to transfuse, OR you can just use the extra queen to make a crapload of creep tumors and you can see almost everything if on the map if your opponent is turtling. problem is at the begining when you only have one queen, you cant really make larvae AND make creep tumors. Creep tumors will help keep units away especially if you send it up to most expos. At some point on blistering sand I had creep going up to both xel naga towers. It was awesome, he couldnt sneak ANYTHING close.

Add me. My battlenet name is Nevaziah and my character code is 101. We can play tonight and ill help you practice your macro style and the transitions. I will max out cannons and try to secure an expo, and THEN make colossi and stalkers etc... and you play zerg and macro up.
Send me a replay of one of those games and I will try to imitate your opponent`s play to the letter.


Watch Day9 Number 179 on youtube. It is Zerg vs Terran but about 90% of what he says applies. Except there is less chance of toss cheezing you. If he 4 gates, YOU WILL SEE IT with a scout. If he Cannon rushes, YOU WILL SEE IT. and lets face it, its kinda ******ed to try to cannon rush a zerg cause of the creep...unless you just wanna box em in their main at the ramp....


----------



## puzzledazn

I'm also diamond







in everything except 4vs4 lulz


----------



## rhed5

Rumors of some updates
-range increase for roaches
-no blink for stalkers in creep
-can't build rax until supply is built
- no nitro pack upgrade until factory
- incrased health in zerg buildings

can't confirm any of this is true but it looks like many of the updates are for 2v2,3v3,4v4 where reapers have been ripping things up.

can any of you guys see if there's any mention of this stuff in the blizz forums? supposedly one of the admins there said this (blocked at work)


----------



## puzzledazn

Why would they want to increase the range for roaches.... if they increase it, they'll be a buff up hydra...


----------



## puzzledazn

Here's what i see...

The balance changes in our next patch will primarily focus on improving the zerg.

Here are a few of the changes we currently have planned:

* We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.

* Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.

* The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

* The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

* We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don't expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.


----------



## rhed5

I have no clue too. The pendulum would swing so much in zerg's favor in this case as all the updates there benefit zerg, doesn't sound realistic


----------



## this n00b again

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
I'm also diamond







in everything except 4vs4 lulz

Add me.


----------



## rhed5

Thanks puzzledazn. Can't imagine anyone using reapers in 1v1 now, maybe 1 for control of a xel naga tower, that's about it. Also this update gives free range for zerg to expand first in zvt as rax first then supply almost always stopped the 14 hatch as well as giving them some breathing room on not being forced to go roaches to counter vultures, but with the roach upgrade, you might as well just go roaches.


----------



## puzzledazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *this n00b again* 
Add me.

what's your user name. check your pm

Check my sig


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/882511#blog

More than just rumors!


----------



## puzzledazn

The numbers are so high for protoss, because most of the new players play protoss, because that's like the easiest race to win and learn with


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
THings to note underlined.

1. *If your opponent is going cannons, he CANT HAVE THAT MANY UNITS. so you DONT NEED TO MAKE ANY. DRONE UP*!!!!! YEAH!!! Make 6 lings and move around the perimeter to scout what you can and take ALL the xel naga towers with a ling and place lords around. You can move the lings in and out of his natural to hinder his expo from going down while you saturate your main and your expo(s). Dont rely only on the drone to scout or only on the towers to warn you or only on the overlords to see. Use EVERYTHING.

2. *To make sure you respond adequately to whatever the opponent does, send your exploration drone at 10 supply. Run up in his base and look around EVERYWHERE*. if he only makes a forge, great, youknow to take your natural expansion and drone up. try to keep the drone in his base alive, moving around and using the queue move.

3. *You are making waaaay too many type of units**. as a zerg, you should not make units JUST IN CASE*. make that pool, upgrade to lair. make the hydra den and the upgrade, since hydra is ALWAYS good against protoss, even against colossi, at least you have a base unit and you can support it with corruptors, brood lords, ultras, infestors or lings. but dont comit unit you explore once that den is down. rhed5 is right, I dont think i will ever recomend anyone go banelings vs protoss ...

4. Once the den is down , evolve a lord into an overseer or just send an overlord and look at his base. look EVERYWHERE you can you can to see what he is going for, even if you have to sac the overseer/overlord (you shouldnt mind since you macro better while he went defense. If you see a lot of gateways, throw down a roach warden and a spire (example: 6 gateways and 2 robo bays). If you see a LOT of stargates, make a spire and just upgrade your hydra attacks and carapace.

Once you have the spire up and you see colossi, spawn corruptors. for each colossus you see, make about 3 corruptors. DONT worry about what to do with them once the colossi are dead.( you tech up and get the dreaded Brood Lord. I have NEVER lost a game against toss when I had 5 brood lords up) Even when he makes phoenix after, its usually to late cause i can already make corruptors and hydraz.
If you see only gateway units, make a lot of hydraz and tech up to hive for the Ultralisk.

5. *I ALWAYS make 2 Queens per hatchery*. You dont have to get two right away, but get one each at least, and then another when you can afford it. WHy? later on you may need to transfuse, OR you can just use the extra queen to make a crapload of creep tumors and you can see almost everything if on the map if your opponent is turtling. problem is at the begining when you only have one queen, you cant really make larvae AND make creep tumors. Creep tumors will help keep units away especially if you send it up to most expos. At some point on blistering sand I had creep going up to both xel naga towers. It was awesome, he couldnt sneak ANYTHING close.

I disagree with point #3. If your opponent is massing due to you scouting, then obviously you aren't going to wait until he plans to attack before building some units yourself, but, yes, you shouldn't saturate your supply and should always scout your opponent. Getting the towers early in the game can help as well







As for the creep tumours, yes, I love the fact that you can actually see the map due to them which means that you can spread it all over and see exactly what he is doing as well as prevent expansions









Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
Here's what i see...

The balance changes in our next patch will primarily focus on improving the zerg.

Here are a few of the changes we currently have planned:

* We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.

* Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.

* The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

* The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

* We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We donâ€™t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.

hmm, I like the roaches range since it's range was too little and at choke points especially against stalkers they get devoured. The fungal growth one is also good, since, they technically shouldn't be able to blink out and the building health is also great, means that structures require that much more damage, wondering if they will up crawlers, doubt that though







I don't agree with the barracks/supply depot one though. I mean, it's true that you have to build a depot either way, so, you can build marines and all this does is flip around your build order(11-barracks, 12-depot becomes 11-depot, 12-barracks), but, it just seems limiting to a terran player especially since 6 pooling sounds like a strong counter to that. Likewise, I think the reaper idea isn't bad, but, maybe they could have just increased the cost instead of moving it to the factory. Either way, I can still see reaper being a viable early game option for harassement due to the fact that they can jump cliffs. I do find it odd that they haven't done much to protoss since their win rate against T is ~60% but I think those are coming. Nice patch so far









Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
I have no clue too. The pendulum would swing so much in zerg's favor in this case as all the updates there benefit zerg, doesn't sound realistic

Not really, roaches needed extended range, stalkers shouldn't be able to blink out of fungal growth since it's supposed to constraint units and zerg buildings are weak in hp compared to their counterparts. It won't change much but will at least make roaches more viable early game and mean that zerg buildings last longer. The fungal growth was aimed more at stalkers than anything else


----------



## puzzledazn

I understand your point, I feel that if they increase the range, hydras may get more obsolete. Everyone is gonna go straight for roach warren. Their armor is crazy and with range.... GEE GEE


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
I understand your point, I feel that if they increase the range, hydras may get more obsolete. Everyone is gonna go straight for roach warren. Their armor is crazy and with range.... GEE GEE

Hydras have more range and if I'm not mistaken, roaches are armored meaning that both stalker and marauders hard counter them, plus hydras attack air as well, roaches are only ground. I think someone mentioned that they will add +1 range, as for their armor, it's only 1 I think, not that large







Definitely happy about this, just means that more will be able to attack instead of running around in the back waiting for their turn as their comrades die infront of their eyes


----------



## puzzledazn

Yeah, but roaches are cheap and fast (tier 1 units). Mass that... i think it's a good game earlyyyyyyyyy


----------



## deanlewandowski

Talking about changing the health of Zerg buildings, isn't Zerg the only race that doesn't have armor upgrades to buildings?
Protoss shield upgrade helps buildings, and Terran can upgrade buildings as well, correct?
Why not make Zerg carapace upgrades help buildings too? (Since they are made from drones)

I think the change to Fungal Growth is a good idea. Some people are saying this will only apply on creep though?

I also think it would be a cool thing to have Zerg creep effect opponent abilities, like generate energy slower, or reduced blink distance etc.
This would reward the Zerg player more for spreading creep (not that improved troop movement and map vision is bad) and give opponents more incentive to destroy tumors and eliminate creep.
Because, honestly, having to spread creep over the board is one additional task that Z has to deal with that the other two races do not, and it eats up time/ APM.
I'm not saying huge penalties, just interesting things to make T/P want to eliminate creep more.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Talking about changing the health of Zerg buildings, isn't Zerg the only race that doesn't have armor upgrades to buildings?
Protoss shield upgrade helps buildings, and Terran can upgrade buildings as well, correct?
Why not make Zerg carapace upgrades help buildings too? (Since they are made from drones)

I think the change to Fungal Growth is a good idea. Some people are saying this will only apply on creep though?

I also think it would be a cool thing to have Zerg creep effect opponent abilities, like generate energy slower, or reduced blink distance etc.
This would reward the Zerg player more for spreading creep (not that improved troop movement and map vision is bad) and give opponents more incentive to destroy tumors and eliminate creep.
Because, honestly, having to spread creep over the board is one additional task that Z has to deal with that the other two races do not, and it eats up time/ APM.
I'm not saying huge penalties, just interesting things to make T/P want to eliminate creep more.

Yeah but creep gives all your units a nice speed boost and it gives vision without any risk.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah but creep gives all your units a nice speed boost and it gives vision without any risk.

Maybe we should make the creep cause opponent's units to get stuck, would make for a nice addition wouldn't you say?









That would be OP big time, JK of course


----------



## poroboszcz

Have you guys noticed the ladder map pool has changed? Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine are gone and there are 2 new maps: Shakuras Plateau and Jungle Basin. Gonna check them out right now.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Have you guys noticed the ladder map pool has changed? Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine are gone and there are 2 new maps: Shakuras Plateau and Jungle Basin. Gonna check them out right now.

Yeah Doomdash posted a link to a TL thread that showed how easily Terran can exploit Shakuras plateau with sieged tanks. You can destroy a refinery on a natural from the natural below it.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puzzledazn* 
Yeah, but roaches are cheap and fast (tier 1 units). Mass that... i think it's a good game earlyyyyyyyyy

fast? ahahahaha (unless you mean to activate them). They move quite slowly off creep until you get the speed increase at lair tech.

Currently, they have the shortest range of any unit in the game (3) with the exception of the protoss archon (2). Hydra base range is 5, 6 with an upgrade, and can attack both air and ground as mentioned before (costs 100 minerals 50 gas).

Roach is 75 minerals 25 gas... marauder is 100 minerals and 25 gas, and given the choice, i'd take the marauder over the roach any day. Just look at the stats, really:

Roach: 75 minerals 25 gas, 3 range, 145 hp, 1 armor, labeled as "armored". 16 damage with a cooldown of 2, and a range of 3.

Marauder: 100 minerals, 25 gas. 125 hp, 1 armor. 10 damage (20 vs armored) with a cooldown of 1.5, and a range of 6.

SIX. Holy crap. I thought it was shorter than that...

But yeah, the marauder outranges the roach by twice its range, has the same armor, less damage but a LOT more damage vs armored , attacks faster, has nearly the same hp....

They share movement speed (off creep/without upgrades) and supply

...and marauder costs a measly 25 minerals more.

In no way shape or form are roaches "good", compared to the terran equivalent (tier 1/1.5ish unit). Stalkers also laugh at most of the roach stats, but it at least is warranted by the cost (125 min and 50 gas).

To really be a GOOD unit early, they'd have to be going against nearly pure marines or zealots. If they get marauders/stalkers at all, roaches become near useless unless they overwhelmingly outnumber them.


----------



## puzzledazn

Anyone onnnnnnn


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
fast? ahahahaha (unless you mean to activate them). They move quite slowly off creep until you get the speed increase at lair tech.

Currently, they have the shortest range of any unit in the game (3) with the exception of the protoss archon (2). Hydra base range is 5, 6 with an upgrade, and can attack both air and ground as mentioned before (costs 100 minerals 50 gas).

Roach is 75 minerals 25 gas... marauder is 100 minerals and 25 gas, and given the choice, i'd take the marauder over the roach any day. Just look at the stats, really:

Roach: 75 minerals 25 gas, 3 range, 145 hp, 1 armor, labeled as "armored". 16 damage with a cooldown of 2, and a range of 3.

Marauder: 100 minerals, 25 gas. 125 hp, 1 armor. 10 damage (20 vs armored) with a cooldown of 1.5, and a range of 6.

SIX. Holy crap. I thought it was shorter than that...

But yeah, the marauder outranges the roach by twice its range, has the same armor, less damage but a LOT more damage vs armored , attacks faster, has nearly the same hp....

They share movement speed (off creep/without upgrades) and supply

...and marauder costs a measly 25 minerals more.

In no way shape or form are roaches "good", compared to the terran equivalent (tier 1/1.5ish unit). Stalkers also laugh at most of the roach stats, but it at least is warranted by the cost (125 min and 50 gas).

To really be a GOOD unit early, they'd have to be going against nearly pure marines or zealots. If they get marauders/stalkers at all, roaches become near useless unless they overwhelmingly outnumber them.

Marauders need to be nerfed. That concussive grenade crap is especially annoying. I have no objection to stalkers. Stalker is a great unit but the price is fair. IMO marauders are too cheap.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Marauders need to be nerfed. That concussive grenade crap is especially annoying. I have no objection to stalkers. Stalker is a great unit but the price is fair. IMO marauders are too cheap.

Marauders as a unit COULD stay, imo, but the price would need to change (50 gas perhaps, i dunno). It's entirely too cheap (both the unit and the concussive grenades upgrade) for how damn good it is. So either a nerf, or a price increase and the maurauder is fine~

what that nerf exactly would be, I'm not sure, really.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help from Zerg players against Protoss.

In the Bronze league, most Protoss just turtle, put up a ton of Photon Cannons, sit at 2 or 3 base and then rush in with a ton of Zealots, Stalkers and Colossus.

My problem is that I usually have a bunch of Roaches, Lings and Hydralisks (inc case of Void Ray) and they seem to get eaten alive by the Protoss army.

What am I doing wrong here?
Should I be harassing earlier, or building a different army composition?
Banelings seem to help a bit. Should I be using Infestors for Fungal Growth more?
What types of upgrades should I be getting against this type of play/ force?

I think Zerg has to do some economic harass against Protoss. P's units tend to be expensive, so they're vulnerable to economic disruption. I like to get some mutas attacking their mineral line. Nydus worm is good against a P who doesn't scout well. I just beat a P player by putting a worm in a dark spot and constantly funneling lings into his mineral line. He didn't figure out what I was doing until it was too late. The constant pressure kept him on the defensive until I got brood lords.


----------



## ThumperSD

I think the following nerf will make marauders balanced:

Armored dmg from 20 to 17-18
Con shells from 50/50 to 100/100


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Far as I know, Doom and Cory are the only diamond ranked players here









Me too.

I just don't reply, because the amount of misinformation here is almost as horrid as on the TL strategy forums.

On a side note, I think putting nitro pack as needing factory was a bad idea- it should've been concussive shell.


----------



## ThumperSD

^ There's at least a few more diamond players here I've played with. They dont really post here though.


----------



## Twistacles

You can add me if you want practice. 13xx something Diamond protoss
twistacles.511


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
On a side note, I think putting nitro pack as needing factory was a bad idea- it should've been concussive shell.

I don't care if you're in Diamond this is crazy talk. Terran needs this. 100/100 is the only good options.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I think the following nerf will make marauders balanced:

Con shells from 50/50 to 100/100

This one right here is the ONLY acceptable option. However, Blizzard tried this in beta and Terran got WRECKED. With the slower Zealot build time it will probably work now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Marauders as a unit COULD stay, imo, but the price would need to change (50 gas perhaps, i dunno). It's entirely too cheap (both the unit and the concussive grenades upgrade) for how damn good it is. So either a nerf, or a price increase and the maurauder is fine~

what that nerf exactly would be, I'm not sure, really.

Marauders are barley used by high level players anymore. TLO / most top players say they aren't very good... and nerf them much and they'll be completely useless.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Marauders need to be nerfed. That concussive grenade crap is especially annoying. I have no objection to stalkers. Stalker is a great unit but the price is fair. IMO marauders are too cheap.

Stalkers attack air and can teleport with regening shields.









Don't forget stalkers can kit units with out having to stim much better than marauders.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Marauders are barley used by high level players anymore. TLO / most top players say they aren't very good... and nerf them much and they'll be completely useless.

If you're referring to that state of the game thing, that's not really what tlo said.. the question was what would they think if marauder had stim removed, and THEN it would be utterly useless, and they wouldn't build it anymore. He also stated it's very easy to get the best use out of the marauder, considering how good they are for the price.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
If you're referring to that state of the game thing, that's not really what tlo said.. the question was what would they think if marauder had stim removed, and THEN it would be utterly useless, and they wouldn't build it anymore. He also stated it's very easy to get the best use out of the marauder, considering how good they are for the price.

I didn't say they were useless now. I'm saying they aren't that great even now. They are good at what they do, but TLO did mention he rarely uses them in any match up but one ( I forget which ). They are good at what they do for the price... no doubt about that. What I'm saying is Terran needs them to be that way. With the roach range buff Zerg will now have a chance against them which is nice. Protoss already has plenty of nice solutions to them.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Ah, that i agree with (wait what, did i just say that?







).

I didn't realize before checking that the marauder range was just so much longer than a roach's. I know it wasn't a good matchup but *damn*. At least as you said, with longer range, it's a bit more on even ground.. admittedly this depends on what that range will be, but we'll see the exact details at some point


----------



## DoomDash

Well according to Blizzard Zerg has an advantage over Terran slightly @ Diamond ( Taking into account player skill ). Zerg have a harder time with Protoss.


----------



## DoomDash

Also it's funny that the so called "Easiest race" according to some is actually far from easiest. Looks like Terran sucks in the hands of newbs, and Protoss is the way to go.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah Doomdash posted a link to a TL thread that showed how easily Terran can exploit Shakuras plateau with sieged tanks. You can destroy a refinery on a natural from the natural below it.

I think that was mostly if you spawned next to each other(horizontally or vertically), but, in that map, you only spawn diagonally which means that your exp location is safe from seige tanks









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Me too.

I just don't reply, because the *amount of misinformation here* is almost as horrid as on the TL strategy forums.

On a side note, I think putting nitro pack as needing factory was a bad idea- it should've been concussive shell.

Curious, what misinformation are you talking about? Concussive shells should still remain as they are, but, a price increase would be a better idea. As for the nitro pack, maybe increase it as well and don't move it to factory.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Ah, that i agree with (wait what, did i just say that?







).

I didn't realize before checking that the marauder range was just so much longer than a roach's. I know it wasn't a good matchup but *damn*. At least as you said, with longer range, it's a bit more on even ground.. admittedly this depends on what that range will be, but we'll see the exact details at some point









Definitely and those shells slow the roach's attack. Don't forget that marauders also do extra damage vs. armored, so, that's 19(20-1 for armor) compared to the 14 that the roach does







I think increasing the range is a good idea without messing up the game









Edit:^^ I also found that interesting since the campaign was Terran-centric


----------



## Tchernobyl

Er, conc shells is movement speed only


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Er, conc shells is movement speed only









oops, yes, you are correct, either way, means that the marauder *might* be able to get an extra shot in, probably more by kiting due to range


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Definitely and those shells slow the roach's attack. Don't forget that marauders also do extra damage vs. armored, so, that's 19(20-1 for armor) compared to the 14 that the roach does







I think increasing the range is a good idea without messing up the game










The funny thing is, the only actual change that I wanted was a Roach range increase. I think 4 alone would be good. Also, I think Roaches do 16 damage IIRC, which means 15 to a marauder. The reason 4 is important is against Reapers / hellions as well. You can no longer effectively kite them at this range on creep. It would also be much harder off of creep.

which amkes me wonder if the reaper speed upgrading requiring factory is even needed. I don't mind the whole racks requires depot thing.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well according to Blizzard Zerg has an advantage over Terran slightly @ Diamond ( Taking into account player skill ). Zerg have a harder time with Protoss.

Its all player skill. You can use different build in either side and have one be the superior.


----------



## DoomDash

I know I'm just saying Zerg beats Terran at equal skill levels ( according to Blizzard ) more often. I don't think it has much to do with the balance. I've been saying for awhile the game is damn balanced... and anything that's not we'll be ironed out eventually.


----------



## thiru

New maps are awesome, they both have backdoor entrances, so if you're in the lower leagues some people should be surprised by it









edit: though cannon rush in jungle basin is EXTREMELY easy. At least if you're in the south and he puts cannons just north of your base.


----------



## DoomDash

Jungle is OK. The other is kinda awful imo.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I think that was mostly if you spawned next to each other(horizontally or vertically), but, in that map, you only spawn diagonally which means that your exp location is safe from seige tanks









No it's only a problem if you were to spawn vertically. Horizontally there's just a double rocks to your opponent's base.

And yeah on this map you can only spawn horizontally or diagonally. And diagonally is freaking long :/

Btw stats show that bronze has more terrans than protoss, because of the campaign, and there are more protoss in all other leagues (except pro level, where there are more terrans I think) because protoss is the "easy to learn" race.

edit: also remember that if you play on Shakuras, you know for a fact that there's nobody above or below you. Kinda stupid.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 

Btw stats show that bronze has more terrans than protoss, because of the campaign, and there are more protoss in all other leagues (except pro level, where there are more terrans I think) because protoss is the "easy to learn" race.

Where does it show there are more Terrans in the lower levels? Also, even so, it might show that there are more Terran players, but Terran players in lower leagues do worse against Protoss players of the same skill level. This would mean that Protoss is the best newb friendly race. Win % is important win picking newb friend races. Protoss has always been this race. I've always said this, and when training my newb friends Protoss comes the most natural to them.

Protoss is also great at lower level vs Zerg... thus proving my point. This is comparing people at the same level of play according to Blizzards complex forumlas.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Where does it show there are more Terrans in the lower levels? Also, even so, it might show that there are more Terran players, but Terran players in lower leagues do worse against Protoss players of the same skill level. This would mean that Protoss is the best newb friendly race. Win % is important win picking newb friend races. Protoss has always been this race. I've always said this, and when training my newb friends Protoss comes the most natural to them.

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all/
43% terran in bronze.
I'm not talking about skill or anything, just commenting on number of terrans and protoss.

The fact that there are more terrans in bronze and then more protoss in silver shows, maybe, that newbs pick terran because of the campaign and then switch to all other races, protoss in particular. So protoss is the newb friendly race.

edit: low level zerg are bad... I've played against 10 zerg in the last 15 games and lost 3 times, 1 to mutaling, 1 to macro and one because I was stupid.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


New maps are awesome, they both have backdoor entrances, so if you're in the lower leagues some people should be surprised by it









edit: though cannon rush in jungle basin is EXTREMELY easy. At least if you're in the south and he puts cannons just north of your base.


It's not as good as it might seem really. Tested it on ladder and lost 2 games because of it







It should work in gold and lower leagues though. Then I lost another game because I went for base trade and my opponent just killed all my buildings faster, even though I had superior army. And it was against 1100 diamond toss, which I could have won. I think it's because of loosing streaks like this I'm not getting promoted. Bad day for me.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Lose, not loose! Argh!

(yes a thread derail but god i hate that error







)

Let's put it this way:

You lose the match, and now your ass is loose after that protoss bent you over~


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOOLLl 43 percent terran in bronze.

In my plat league top 10 players: 1 toss, 1 random, rest zerg and terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The funny thing is, the only actual change that I wanted was a Roach range increase. I think 4 alone would be good. Also, I think Roaches do 16 damage IIRC, which means 15 to a marauder. The reason 4 is important is against Reapers / hellions as well. You can no longer effectively kite them at this range on creep. It would also be much harder off of creep.

which amkes me wonder if the reaper speed upgrading requiring factory is even needed. I don't mind the whole racks requires depot thing.


oh, it's 15, interesting. Just did a little test:
Roach vs. Marauder with no upgrade= Marauder win with 50hp
Roach vs. Stalker = Stalker win with 30 hp
Definitely interesting but stalker costs more, so, seems fair. Marauder is alright as well









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Jungle is OK. The other is kinda awful imo.


I don't know, I like how their is space in the middle and it seems longer than the other maps


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I just started league play today. I played every game as Zerg with a fast expo. There really is a pretty steep learning curve with Z. I lost my first 8 matches, but then won 6 of the next 9. A lot of my losses were from Protoss players going fast tech and cranking 2 or 3 void rays and then attacking immediately. If Z isn't ready for that it's game over, which I suppose is why Protoss players like to do it. Mutas are my favorite early anti-air unit but they just crumble into dust when facing void rays. What's the answer for an early void ray attack? Hydras?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I just started league play today. I played every game as Zerg with a fast expo. There really is a pretty steep learning curve with Z. I lost my first 8 matches, but then won 6 of the next 9. A lot of my losses were from Protoss players going fast tech and cranking 2 or 3 void rays and then attacking immediately. If Z isn't ready for that it's game over, which I suppose is why Protoss players like to do it. Mutas are my favorite early anti-air unit but they just crumble into dust when facing void rays. What's the answer for an early void ray attack? Hydras?


Mutalisks are the answer. The key is when the rays are almost charged, you pull them out otherwise they will cream you. They are very effective at destroying the economy of an opponent as well


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Mutalisks are the answer. The key is when the rays are almost charged, you pull them out otherwise they will cream you. They are very effective at destroying the economy of an opponent as well










How can you tell if the ray is charged?


----------



## DoomDash

It has its little blue beams lit up in the front... and when it fires it will be the thicker beam.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


New maps are awesome, they both have backdoor entrances, so if you're in the lower leagues some people should be surprised by it









edit: though cannon rush in jungle basin is EXTREMELY easy. At least if you're in the south and he puts cannons just north of your base.


I won two games today by placing nydus worms outside the backdoor and shoving lots of zerglings into the main mineral line. Both times my opponent was surprised. I love those backdoors.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


How can you tell if the ray is charged?


when the ray is not one little blue line but a farking HUGE blue ray of death?









That, and there are "rods" so to speam that you can see on the void ray. One lit up = normal (I think?) all three lit up = OH **** DEATH


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It's not as good as it might seem really. Tested it on ladder and lost 2 games because of it







It should work in gold and lower leagues though. Then I lost another game because I went for base trade and my opponent just killed all my buildings faster, even though I had superior army. And it was against 1100 diamond toss, which I could have won. I think it's because of loosing streaks like this I'm not getting promoted. Bad day for me.


Yeah that's what I said (about lower leagues)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I just started league play today. I played every game as Zerg with a fast expo. There really is a pretty steep learning curve with Z. I lost my first 8 matches, but then won 6 of the next 9. A lot of my losses were from Protoss players going fast tech and cranking 2 or 3 void rays and then attacking immediately. If Z isn't ready for that it's game over, which I suppose is why Protoss players like to do it. Mutas are my favorite early anti-air unit but they just crumble into dust when facing void rays. What's the answer for an early void ray attack? Hydras?


Hydras are good because of high DPS and they're faster and cheaper to get. Mutas are good too because of high mobility. Pick one, they both have their uses other than countering void rays.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


How can you tell if the ray is charged?


A void ray has 3 stages (you can see how many of its "tentacles" are active), only the last of which adds damage (especially against armor). What you want to do is attack and back up before 7 seconds (which is why the mutas' mobility is good). If they do get charged, you need to wait 5 seconds for it to come back to normal.


----------



## BigFan

As mentioned, I just note how long they have been attacking for(general idea) and the thickness. Believe me, you'll see the beam becomes really large when they are fully charged









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah that's what I said (about lower leagues)









Hydras are good because of high DPS and they're faster and cheaper to get. Mutas are good too because of high mobility. Pick one, they both have their uses other than countering void rays.

A void ray has 3 stages (you can see how many of its "tentacles" are active), only the last of which adds damage (especially against armor). What you want to do is attack and back up before 7 seconds (which is why the mutas' mobility is good). If they do get charged, you need to wait 5 seconds for it to come back to normal.


Interesting fact about the void rays. Just had a crazy 2 vs 2 with doomdash vs. 2 zerg. I decided to go with hydras and while they creamed the other player's mutalisks, their mobility was an issue because he would keep moving to from my main to my exp, etc.... kinda like I always do with opponents, so, as mentioned, mutalisks are great for harassing, but, hydras take them down very well. You could always go for hydras for defense and mutalisks for offense though


----------



## DoomDash

Here you go BigFan. Decent 2v2:


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


A void ray has 3 stages (you can see how many of its "tentacles" are active),


2. it had 3 stages during beta.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Here you go BigFan. Decent 2v2:




Thanks for the upload, +REP







Definitely an interesting game, made less mistakes than the first one, but, we were able to overcome them in the end. It was interesting to see ultralisks in action though. I am still surprised that they didn't go for brood lords, since, they teched far enough to get ultras and those things are crazy to deal with especially if you have some units to back them up


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
2. it had 3 stages during beta.

Graphically, it still has 3 stages, but in terms of damage, yeah only 2.

edit: just watched that replay.
Bigfan, you're zerg yet at mid game Doomdash had 3 expands while you only had your natural, and no in base hatch...


----------



## DoomDash

Well in his defense I hate the 2v2 map line up. It's kind of hard especially for Zerg to expand on a map like that. Not saying he couldn't... but the 2v2 maps in the ladder pool are hard on Zerg. He still ended up saving my ass a few times







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well in his defense I hate the 2v2 map line up. It's kind of hard especially for Zerg to expand on a map like that. Not saying he couldn't... but the 2v2 maps in the ladder pool are hard on Zerg. He still ended up saving my ass a few times







.

Of course. And yeah a lot of 2v2 (and up) maps suck.
Damn hydras are scary on creep









The most satisfying game ever. Guys insulting us before the game started makes winning feel so much better









edit: I always wall myself in accidentally on that map. Stupid ramp.


----------



## DoomDash

lol I like your replay file name.

I'll watch it now.


----------



## thiru

I'm going to post here to prevent your impending double post









edit: getting placed in bronze team ladder and working your way up is so fun. You play loads of "interesting" games








and no post lol


----------



## DoomDash

lol do people talk that much crap on the euro servers?

Hey how do you like france anyway?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
lol do people talk that much crap on the euro servers?

Hey how do you like france anyway?

That's the US server.

Umm I'm French so I'm not sure how to answer that lol.
edit: geeks are hard to find lol. Got only 1 SC2 playing friend in RL


----------



## DoomDash

Well I mean, do you like it in France? I know it was on the US server.. I was asking if anyone on the Euro servers pull the same smack talking







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158999
Anyone watching these games? Do I just tune into ESL TV?


----------



## Alquac

Hey, got a quick question about SC2. Thought this was the best place to ask.

Is there any playtime tracking in SC2? Like there is in Steam? Being able to find out that you have played X amount of hours?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think so.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well I mean, do you like it in France? I know it was on the US server.. I was asking if anyone on the Euro servers pull the same smack talking







.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=158999
Anyone watching these games? Do I just tune into ESL TV?

Oh ok I thought you wanted a comparison to the US or something (lived in Indonesia most of my life). Yeah I like it. Do I love it? no I miss Indonesia's food so bad. Everything here is so clean though, and mostly everything works. I don't like living too close to Paris (the metro system is a freaking headache), I much preferred the medium cities. People are friendlier in Indonesia though.
And teh interwebs, they work!









edit: ok now I'm confused as to what you're asking lol

As for smack talking, that's the first time I see it on any server, so can't say yet. I did get told I was a noob once, that's about all I heard in EU.


----------



## just4funuk

Is anyone else having problems with poor FPS with GTX 400 series cards in an SLI setup.


----------



## DoomDash

I'd love to travel the world and try other countries foods. I watch Anthony Bordain all the time ( that's what he does ). Not sure if I saw one on Indonesia yet... i'll have to look. What kind of food did you like there? BTW give me your steam id.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just4funuk* 
Is anyone else having problems with poor FPS with GTX 400 series cards.

I have great performance.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'd love to travel the world and try other countries foods. I watch Anthony Bordain all the time ( that's what he does ). Not sure if I saw one on Indonesia yet... i'll have to look. What kind of food did you like there? BTW give me your steam id.

I have great performance.

Oh I used to watch those kinds of shows all the time, was it NGC or Discovery network? TV here sucks :/

IIRC He has done a show in Indonesia. Don't remember which region he went to though.
I love a lot of it (can't say all because there are so many things I never tried, and some key ingredients I simply can't stomach like shallots).
Examples:
-bubur ayam, sort of rice porridge with chicken, awesome in the morning
-nasi goreng, fried/sauteed rice for breakfast that traditionally has last day's left overs thrown in it, now comes in chicken/seafood/beef/anything
-masakan padang, awesome food from Sumatra characterized by extreme spiciness and usage of coconut milk
-sop buntut, oxtail soup that may stink up your kitchen while it cooks for 3 hours but it's so freaking tasty
-gado gado, fresh vegetables with awesome peanut butter sauce

There's so many stuff I would kill to have right now. Check this.

It's spicy, and can be very hot (I differentiate spicy and hot). But usually a dish will have less different spices and less strong spices (like curry) than Indian food for example, but IMO this makes the dishes more refined and special instead of OVER 9000 spices.

Sorry for offtopic







I got excited and drooled a little.

On topic, ESL has a free stream. I hope it's open for that tournament, when is it anyway?
If not, then people on TL will stream it. Fischer always does it I think, even if it's not free.

edit: Indonesia has 6,000 inhabited islands (17,000 total) and 700 spoken languages. If you're dedicated you spend half a life time discovering food


----------



## W4LNUT5




----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
[IMzG]http://davidmoore.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/om-nom-nom-tree.jpg[/IMG]

Go back to Outlook troll


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW1bVAtiTvM&feature=player_embedded





lol'd

edit: don't miss the little details


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Go back to Outlook *troll*

I think you're forgetting this isn't the "Organizing BC2 thread" lol


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I think you're forgetting this isn't the "Organizing BC2 thread" lol

I own this thread, nub. Half the OP was written by me (and the half that's missing means 90% of the links are not working lol).


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Curious, what misinformation are you talking about? Concussive shells should still remain as they are, but, a price increase would be a better idea. As for the nitro pack, maybe increase it as well and don't move it to factory.

I meant in general, the replies by the so-called 'pros'.


----------



## DoomDash

What pros?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I own this thread, nub. Half the OP was written by me (and the half that's missing means 90% of the links are not working lol).


----------



## Tchernobyl

Hey salut le franÃ§ais! J'en suis un aussi, mais j'habite malheureusement en floride...


----------



## xHassassin

Mass banshees are so fun.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Go back to Outlook troll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW1bV...layer_embedded

lol'd

edit: don't miss the little details


"Fixed an error where﻿ Reapers would shout, 'It's a me, Mario!" when jumping up cliffs"

"Fixed an error where Bronze League players were entitled to an opinion﻿ on the state of gameplay balance."

Ahahaha XD


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Hey salut le franÃ§ais! J'en suis un aussi, mais j'habite malheureusement en floride...









Malheureusement? why? I'd love to go back to the US (lol yeah I lived there from age 0.5 to 3.5).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
"Fixed an error where﻿ Reapers would shout, 'It's a me, Mario!" when jumping up cliffs"

"Fixed an error where Bronze League players were entitled to an opinion﻿ on the state of gameplay balance."

Ahahaha XD

The idra part is pretty funny too


----------



## Tchernobyl

because i've been here for 8 goddamn years and want to go somewhere else, preferably back to europe







(lived there for 16 of my 27 years








)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
because i've been here for 8 goddamn years and want to go somewhere else, preferably back to europe







(lived there for 16 of my 27 years







)

Ahh.. I think Stockholm would be a nice change of scenery







(although I read that French expatriates' favorite city was Copenhaguen)


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Mass banshees are so fun.










Mass Phoenix's are more fun!

Yesterday I was playing a 1v1 against a Terran player, he was going mmm with siege tanks. I went stalker/immortal/phoenix. When it came time to do battle I ended up lifting up 3 of his siege tanks and went to work on his bio ball... He left the game going "****ING NERD"


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Graphically, it still has 3 stages, but in terms of damage, yeah only 2.

edit: just watched that replay.
Bigfan, you're zerg yet at mid game Doomdash had 3 expands while you only had your natural, and no in base hatch...

Well, I did have one expo, but, yes, I should have had a 2nd exp. If you noticed, I had minerals up to 4k and gas at 2k, so, even without that third exp, I was setting for a while and i ended up making ultralisks and good thing since we were attacked with 5-7 one minute later







I could put an inbase hatc, however, doom was terran and creep would spread further if I added it, although, i could have probably put it on the side

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well in his defense I hate the 2v2 map line up. It's kind of hard especially for Zerg to expand on a map like that. Not saying he couldn't... but the 2v2 maps in the ladder pool are hard on Zerg. He still ended up saving my ass a few times







.

well, maybe saved, but, not fully, since, he was going for both our bases, although, I did intercept him a few times. Not sure why, but, I didn't attack him as much as I should have, mostly defended our base and tried that worm attack early on, so, you ended up doing more attacks than I did especially that attack with 5 thors and they attacked with ultras, zerglings and mutalisks. I recall wanting to try another worm with the ultras however once he attacked with his, I had to forgot it. Don't worry, I will be attacking much more next time we have a 2vs2. Was definitely a blast to play









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Of course. And yeah a lot of 2v2 (and up) maps suck.
Damn hydras are scary on creep









The most satisfying game ever. Guys insulting us before the game started makes winning feel so much better









edit: I always wall myself in accidentally on that map. Stupid ramp.

I like the idea of being close to your ally, means that he can help out if you are getting your base destroyed and vice-versa, but, I also see your point. I think the middle areas should be twice the size as 1vs1 maps, but, they aren't







Hydras are great on creep especially in large amounts. I think the best idea is to place hydras around your base for defense against mutalisks and use mutalisk for harassement







lol, I'm sure it does









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh ok I thought you wanted a comparison to the US or something (lived in Indonesia most of my life). Yeah I like it. Do I love it? no I miss Indonesia's food so bad. Everything here is so clean though, and mostly everything works. I don't like living too close to Paris (the metro system is a freaking headache), I much preferred the medium cities. People are friendlier in Indonesia though.
And teh interwebs, they work!









edit: ok now I'm confused as to what you're asking lol

As for smack talking, that's the first time I see it on any server, so can't say yet. I did get told I was a noob once, that's about all I heard in EU.

I was in Paris back in May/June and it was an interesting experience. Definitely a lot of tourist attraction and I saw them all







The metro was interesting as well, but, we were warned about theives, we were told they ran rampant in the metro. The price seemed steep in comparison to Canada as well, but, everything else was fine







We enjoyed it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alquac* 
Hey, got a quick question about SC2. Thought this was the best place to ask.

Is there any playtime tracking in SC2? Like there is in Steam? Being able to find out that you have played X amount of hours?

Thanks in advance.

Not as far as I know









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I own this thread, nub. Half the OP was written by me (*and the half that's missing means 90% of the links are not working lol*).

really, you own this thread? Well, why don't we see who has posted the most in it so far?







I like that bolded statement









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
I meant in general, the replies by the so-called 'pros'.

Pros, who are you referring to by that? All I can say is that my gameplay has increased drastically since I started playing more and taking in some tips from the people here has also helped a lot. I don't watch much replays either


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Well, I did have one expo, but, yes, I should have had a 2nd exp. If you noticed, I had minerals up to 4k and gas at 2k, so, even without that third exp, I was setting for a while and i ended up making ultralisks and good thing since we were attacked with 5-7 one minute later







I could put an inbase hatc, however, doom was terran and creep would spread further if I added it, although, i could have probably put it on the side

I was in Paris back in May/June and it was an interesting experience. Definitely a lot of tourist attraction and I saw them all







The metro was interesting as well, but, we were warned about theives, we were told they ran rampant in the metro. The price seemed steep in comparison to Canada as well, but, everything else was fine







We enjoyed it









really, you own this thread? Well, why don't we see who has posted the most in it so far?







I like that bolded statement









Yes, but you had 3k minerals because you weren't spending it fast enough (this seems to be a recurrent theme in 2v2..macro suffers a lot I'm not sure why). So getting more expos just for the hatcheries would be good for larvae and give you a start on those expands. Or you can just build inbase hatches.

I've never been stolen from in the metro..

And Doomdash probably has the most posts, all those double posts lol.


----------



## DoomDash

14+ posts per day, most in this thread.


----------



## poroboszcz

Can you guys complete Multitasking Trainer on Hard? I can do it consistently on easy, sometimes on Normal, but Hard just seems impossible. I can't imagine anyone doing in on Insane.


----------



## canoners

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh ok I thought you wanted a comparison to the US or something (lived in Indonesia most of my life). Yeah I like it. Do I love it? no I miss Indonesia's food so bad. Everything here is so clean though, and mostly everything works. I don't like living too close to Paris (the metro system is a freaking headache), I much preferred the medium cities. People are friendlier in Indonesia though.
And teh interwebs, they work!









edit: ok now I'm confused as to what you're asking lol

As for smack talking, that's the first time I see it on any server, so can't say yet. I did get told I was a noob once, that's about all I heard in EU.

Dude, you really live there? I'm an Indonesian









OT: How do you counter mass thors as protoss? Feedback?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *canoners* 
Dude, you really live there? I'm an Indonesian









OT: How do you counter mass thors as protoss? Feedback?

lol Immortals. Immortals and templar if you can afford it ( feedback ). Void rays too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *canoners* 
Dude, you really live there? I'm an Indonesian









OT: How do you counter mass thors as protoss? Feedback?

My mom's Indonesian actually







lived a total of 12 years there (with a 5 year episode in Thailand).

Feedback and immortals or void rays. I'd pick immortals. 20 damage instead of 60? hell yes.


----------



## poroboszcz

I wouldn't recommend void rays against thors lol. But immortals are quite decent. Speedlots + HT can do the job as well.


----------



## canoners

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
My mom's Indonesian actually







lived a total of 12 years there (with a 5 year episode in Thailand).

Feedback and immortals or void rays. I'd pick immortals. 20 damage instead of 60? hell yes.

Oh cool







So, bisa bahasa indo?









Yeah, I keep getting owned by mass thors :/ I tried voids, doesn't seem too effective.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *canoners* 
Oh cool







So, bisa bahasa indo?









Yeah, I keep getting owned by mass thors :/ I tried voids, doesn't seem too effective.

Iya lemayan, tapi ngak tau gimana tulis









Robotics would be a good option. Observers will warn you of when he starts massing them and you can start pumping out immortals. HT requires so much gas.


----------



## canoners

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Iya lemayan, tapi ngak tau gimana tulis









Ahaha nice








OK gonna go and finish the practice league


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I wouldn't recommend void rays against thors lol. But immortals are quite decent. Speedlots + HT can do the job as well.

I would. Rapeeeee.


----------



## thiru

If you can keep those void rays alive, then it's GG for terran when you move into his base lol


----------



## Tchernobyl

A charged up void ray vs thor, sure. one that isn't charged yet.. sounds more like a death sentence for the void :X


----------



## poroboszcz

They are not cost effective though, especially compared to immortals. I rarely see thors in TvP anyway.

Edit: Just checked in the unit tester and microed Void Rays barely beat or loose to not microed thors. The bigger the army the less effective they are, because of splash. Even carriers work much better. Actually they seem to be cost effective.


----------



## DoomDash

They have a lot of health. Pretty easy to get charged up. They are pretty cost effective and well rounded IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Can you guys complete Multitasking Trainer on Hard? I can do it consistently on easy, sometimes on Normal, but Hard just seems impossible. I can't imagine anyone doing in on Insane.

No clue what that it, although, I can postulate from the name









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yes, but you had 3k minerals because you weren't spending it fast enough (this seems to be a recurrent theme in 2v2..macro suffers a lot I'm not sure why). So getting more expos just for the hatcheries would be good for larvae and give you a start on those expands. Or you can just build inbase hatches.

I've never been stolen from in the metro..

And Doomdash probably has the most posts, all those double posts lol.

I was mixed with my strategy but wanted to eventually go for ultras and brood lords. I was also trying to defend my base from their constant mutalisk harassement and those hydras move slowly off creep. I expanded to the mineral field to the right of my first exp and everything was good, but, didn't want to expand too early. All they would have needed was to attack me at the same time and good bye exp.
I've never been stolen from either, but, it was something that we were warned out








He likely has the most but I'm not far behind









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
14+ posts per day, most in this thread.

lol, well, umm, I have close to that









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
If you can keep those void rays alive, then it's GG for terran when you move into his base lol

yes, assuming he doesn't start pumping out marines and .

Quote:


Originally Posted by *canoners* 
Ahaha nice








OK gonna go and finish the practice league









I would only play a couple of practice league games, since, the actual league is faster, more intense due to no rocks, more fun and they don't force you to turtle unlike the practice league


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
A charged up void ray vs thor, sure. one that isn't charged yet.. sounds more like a death sentence for the void :X

Gotta remember a void ray's health though. It's 150 shields, 300 hp, so, total is 450. Not sure how damage is applied to the shields, but, thor does 10 air damage and splash. The thor will only get so many hits before the void ray charges and wipes it out, however, I haven't tested this yet


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Gotta remember a void ray's health though. It's 150 shields, 300 hp, so, total is 450. Not sure how damage is applied to the shields, but, thor does 10 air damage and splash. The thor will only get so many hits before the void ray charges and wipes it out, however, I haven't tested this yet









lol void rays have 100/150. You just described carriers. And thors do 6x4 damage + splash to void rays.


----------



## DoomDash

Void rays crush Thor's. Makes me sad. Metal in general just sucks vs Protoss.

1 vr vs 1 thor = void ray left with 106 hp. I think an Immortal ends up losing or living just barely.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol void rays have 100/150. You just described carriers. And thors do 6x4 damage + splash to void rays.

oops, my mistake. This is what happens when you play only zerg









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Void rays crush Thor's. Makes me sad. Metal in general just sucks vs Protoss.

hmm, if thiru is correct ^^ and I have no reason to doubt him, then it's thor's that crush void rays and not vice-versa









Edit: Just saw your edit, I see, well, I go back to my original point of void rays winning then


----------



## DoomDash

Plus void rays attack ground/air, and they are very mobile. So if you see mass thors you can just go void rays if its not out of your way. Just don't pile them all up on top of each other.


----------



## DoomDash

Are you guys watching IEM? Forcefield soooooo good. Beat way more value of MM with some nice FF.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you guys watching IEM? Forcefield soooooo good. Beat way more value of MM with some nice FF.

My internet is acting like it's been doing the last week, so, unfortunately, I am unable to







One thing though that I recall from our matches yesterday, when you were protoss and attacked my base, you laid out some forcefield. Truly my zerglings would have to go in single file, but, it also meant that your zealots were trapped meaning they were easy prey for my roaches, so, I'm not sure if that was the purpose of those 3 ffs







As for IEM, well, I'm assuming that ff is used to split up the force at which point, it's much easier to take them down. I would think some storms would eliminate a good # of marines in an MM especially if you stack them(cast more than one at a time, like 3-4 storms in same location







).


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah you don't even need storm though







. FF is stronger!

You could pick off my Zealots, I could pick of your roaches AND lings with my stalkers, with out taking any damage.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
My internet is acting like it's been doing the last week, so, unfortunately, I am unable to







One thing though that I recall from our matches yesterday, when you were protoss and attacked my base, you laid out some forcefield. Truly my zerglings would have to go in single file, but, it also meant that your zealots were trapped meaning they were easy prey for my roaches, so, I'm not sure if that was the purpose of those 3 ffs







As for IEM, well, I'm assuming that ff is used to split up the force at which point, it's much easier to take them down. I would think some storms would eliminate a good # of marines in an MM especially if you stack them(cast more than one at a time, like 3-4 storms in same location







).

Forcefields do everything. Cover retreat, stop the kitting, divide forces, wall off, block workers in the mineral line. It's awesome. Just needs a calm hand and cooler head


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah you don't even need storm though







. FF is stronger!

You could pick off my Zealots, I could pick of your roaches AND lings with my stalkers, with out taking any damage.

Yes, but, my roaches were within range of your stalkers, however, you are correct, my zerglings just stood there waiting for the ff to end









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Forcefields do everything. Cover retreat, stop the kitting, divide forces, wall off, block workers in the mineral line. It's awesome. Just needs a calm hand and cooler head









They are definitely great to use especially with blocking and breaking up enemy forces


----------



## Nevaziah

I need to practice using forcefields. Especially to cut off terran reinforcements or to split forces on a ramp.

HEre is a replay of an awesome game I just played on the new Jungle map. at first when the game started, I was liek ***! and froze for 3 seconds when I noticed a different map. I was gonna yell OMG***HAX! till I realized Massiv told me about new maps coming out.
PvZ, awesome macro long game. I shoulda gone colossi earlier but... Enjoy. (and please send me pointers)


----------



## poroboszcz

I've just been called noob for using force fields against another 1000 toss. I'm really starting to wonder how all these guys got to diamond. Played PvP on jungle basin and he 4 gated against my 2 gate robo. Then he attacked with 4 gates worth of stalkers against my zss + 1 immortal. I managed to split his stalkers exactly in half on the ramp and killed all of them with some micro with barely any losses. He said: "noob" and left the game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I've just been called noob for using force fields against another 1000 toss. I'm really starting to wonder how all these guys got to diamond. Played PvP on jungle basin and he 4 gated against my 2 gate robo. Then he attacked with 4 gates worth of stalkers against my zss + 1 immortal. I managed to split his stalkers exactly in half on the ramp and killed all of them with some micro with barely any losses. He said: "noob" and left the game









lol, nice work. I also wonder how people get up so far in the ladder. 4 gating seems strong though. I mean unless I'm mistaken, when I played against thiru, he was 4 gating pretty much most of his matches and go stalkers+zealots was too much for my units, although, my games weren't the best I've played









@ Nevaziah Looking at game now


----------



## yellowtoblerone

This is why I like bronze better, everyone's so nice like how are you?! Forcefield is so good, i gota learn to do it better.


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Thanks for the upload, +REP







Definitely an interesting game, made less mistakes than the first one, but, we were able to overcome them in the end. It was interesting to see ultralisks in action though. I am still surprised that they didn't go for brood lords, since, they teched far enough to get ultras and those things are crazy to deal with especially if you have some units to back them up









A few things I noticed...
Both teams scouted very poorly...
The zerg on top right did a quick expo but didn't even move his drones or build enough for it to be useful.
The two zergs below sent mass zerglings to attack a planetary fortress.
Poor microing with the late hellion attack...
I laughed at the spine crawlers at the entrance of the bottom left zerg's base.
The expos of the bottom two zergs had zero protection.
The topplayers AND the bottom players didn't group their units up with their teammates.

I think of the zergs on the bottom combined their mutas, they would've won.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
I need to practice using forcefields. Especially to cut off terran reinforcements or to split forces on a ramp.

HEre is a replay of an awesome game I just played on the new Jungle map. at first when the game started, I was liek ***! and froze for 3 seconds when I noticed a different map. I was gonna yell OMG***HAX! till I realized Massiv told me about new maps coming out.
PvZ, awesome macro long game. I shoulda gone colossi earlier but... Enjoy. (and please send me pointers)

Didn't really look like a macro game at first when I saw 4 gate against 1-basing zerg.








You could've won it in first 10 minutes if you went through destructible rocks at the back instead of pushing his front. Nice game though, lots of back and forth action, must have been fun to play. I would get templar tech though rather then colossi if you had a chance.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

^ re that:
1. you didn't 4 gate push when you could, and waited too long so he got hydras.
2. 4 gate push expand is a little too late.
3. you built extra gates before 2nd base was up, thats when you got hard countered. You didn't have enough to produce out of 4 gates and probes at the time, and the extra gates weren't being used.

Hence you see many like huk go 2 gate robo to expand and then build more gates and robo support. But he's constantly pumping stuff out off 2-3 gates and robo.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
I need to practice using forcefields. Especially to cut off terran reinforcements or to split forces on a ramp.

HEre is a replay of an awesome game I just played on the new Jungle map. at first when the game started, I was liek ***! and froze for 3 seconds when I noticed a different map. I was gonna yell OMG***HAX! till I realized Massiv told me about new maps coming out.
PvZ, awesome macro long game. I shoulda gone colossi earlier but... Enjoy. (and please send me pointers)

Funny game dood. Many things still to improve though. All nexus had full chronoboost. Your 2rd expo was in a great area. Hold that and you held all three bases. LOL at bad of a player that zerg was. He had less than 20 drones on minerals the entire game, as in he was on one base, with 19 drones the entire game and I was lmao.


----------



## poroboszcz

Didn't notice that lol. What league is it? I had the replay showing resources tab and I was like "damn, both players so low on resources through the whole game, this must be really high level"


----------



## Nevaziah

Platinium league. Hartley Chi division









I kept timing his pushes and his composition and I figured he was still on 2 base around the mid game. Even when i went to 3 bases, but my first kinda ran out of mins







BUT, he definetly shoulda microed better. I didnt get the chance to look at his play, so far I only looked at mine and i can do a few things better:

- Weapon/armor/shield upgrades
- Breaking HIS rocks. I kept getting worried about MY rocks and didnt clue in that HE must have em too
- Teching up to templar OR colossus. Even though blink and charge did give me the extra edge, I had enough to actually tech up higher.
- Keeping the gas saturated. sometimes he would attack and i would go back to minerals with probes but i would forget the gas till later.
- Not EVER getting suppy blocked. i dont get blocked half as much as before but I want to eliminate this completely (exept when they take out ovvies or pylons)
- Keep pumping drones. ALWAYS. I slipped up a few times. Not significantly but it made a small difference.
- Scouting the INSIDE of his base (in case he made a few brood lords or ultras)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *listen to remix* 
A few things I noticed...
Both teams scouted very poorly...
The zerg on top right did a quick expo but didn't even move his drones or build enough for it to be useful.
The two zergs below sent mass zerglings to attack a planetary fortress.
Poor microing with the late hellion attack...
I laughed at the spine crawlers at the entrance of the bottom left zerg's base.
The expos of the bottom two zergs had zero protection.
The topplayers AND the bottom players didn't group their units up with their teammates.

I think of the zergs on the bottom combined their mutas, they would've won.

Yes, scouting wasn't the greatest, although, I did scout before one of the attacks using a changeling(nydus worm drop that is). I mostly did expo for gas and then I usually make drones for minerals, but, yes, you are correct, I concentrated on my main and gas from my exp. While that wasn't me, I have no clue how it could be poor. He took out most of the drones at the two expansions. Yes, we didn't, definitely something to work on







As for combining mutas, not sure how well that would have worked. You keep forgetting that I had over 30 hydras around my base and we also had some thors and missile turrets. No doubt, they would have made some chaos since I barely had AA in my expo(3 hydras), but, not enough to win the game


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Is it worth the money to buy all the Zerg evolution chamber upgrades? I'm getting a little frustrated by Protoss and I'm considering trying a build of just roaches and hydras with 2 evo chambers. Go for max upgrades and then make a big push as soon as possible. Would this work against cannons and massed stalkers?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is it worth the money to buy all the Zerg evolution chamber upgrades? I'm getting a little frustrated by Protoss and I'm considering trying a build of just roaches and hydras with 2 evo chambers. Go for max upgrades and then make a big push as soon as possible. Would this work against cannons and massed stalkers?


One on one, stalkers win roaches by 35hp, likely due to the range being higher. In terms of it working, well, hydras are supposed to be great against Protoss(personally, never tried that before). Max upgrades is a good idea but I would also try to go for mutalisks for harassing his probes, because, then he'll try to get his units to his probes to protect them, thus, stopping him from attacking your base. You can also try to slip a worm filled with speedlings and roaches into their base. If you take out most of his probes, he'll have a hard time recovering while you can keep on pressuring him from the front, basically, try to attack him from both front and back to divide his force. Roaches are great against cannons, but, you'll likely have to deal with zealots and stalkers at the minimum.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is it worth the money to buy all the Zerg evolution chamber upgrades? I'm getting a little frustrated by Protoss and I'm considering trying a build of just roaches and hydras with 2 evo chambers. Go for max upgrades and then make a big push as soon as possible. Would this work against cannons and massed stalkers?


I don't think it's worth it. Definitely you want to stay even in armor upgrades against protoss attack upgrades. If you want to do a timing attack I think a nydus worm is a better option. I actually believe that PvZ is imba at the moment in the same way TvZ used to be. I can't remember loosing a game against zerg even against much better players. Also don't attack cannons. Just take map control and tech up while harassing with mutas/nydus.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You should figure your strat during the game to know which upgrades you're gonna get. Maybe during end game you want all three upgrades b/c of mix unit composition, but no way would you want it during the beginning or meta, mid game. U should always focus to give yourself the most advantage at different stages of the game.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


One on one, stalkers win roaches by 35hp, likely due to the range being higher. In terms of it working, well, hydras are supposed to be great against Protoss(personally, never tried that before). Max upgrades is a good idea but I would also try to go for mutalisks for harassing his probes, because, then he'll try to get his units to his probes to protect them, thus, stopping him from attacking your base. You can also try to slip a worm filled with speedlings and roaches into their base. If you take out most of his probes, he'll have a hard time recovering while you can keep on pressuring him from the front, basically, try to attack him from both front and back to divide his force. Roaches are great against cannons, but, you'll likely have to deal with zealots and stalkers at the minimum.


I love doing muta harass on the probes but the better P players are usually ready for it. It doesn't take a whole lot of stalkers to protect a mineral line against mutas. Increasingly air units just seem like a distraction and a waste of resources and time when facing a good P player. I'd like to find a way to force a decisive battle before P can get fully teched up with a big army. It seems like if you let the game drag on too long P just gets too powerful to defeat.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yes they are ready, but still it will keep them in the base which buys you more time. Plus if you're successful you'll get some econ lead. I don't really know how to help zerg, but nydus worm is the best thing you should learn to use.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yes they are ready, but still it will keep them in the base which buys you more time. Plus if you're successful you'll get some econ lead. I don't really know how to help zerg, but nydus worm is the best thing you should learn to use.

I don't want to buy time. I think dragging things out favors P. I've pretty much lost faith in the concept of incremental chipping away against good P players, especially via air. It takes too damn long. Increasingly my impression is that Z should try to strike at least one heavy blow in the Tier 2 stage of the game. Am I wrong about that?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
You should figure your strat during the game to know which upgrades you're gonna get. Maybe during end game you want all three upgrades b/c of mix unit composition, but no way would you want it during the beginning or meta, mid game. U should always focus to give yourself the most advantage at different stages of the game.

This is true, although, hopefully, you've been able to slow upgrade your units' attacks and armor as the game goes on. Sometimes I do armor first, other times I do attacks and for attacks, it depends on what units I want to use.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I love doing muta harass on the probes but the better P players are usually ready for it. It doesn't take a whole lot of stalkers to protect a mineral line against mutas. Increasingly air units just seem like a distraction and a waste of resources and time when facing a good P player. I'd like to find a way to force a decisive battle before P can get fully teched up with a big army. It seems like if you let the game drag on too long P just gets too powerful to defeat.

Yes and no. Any good player will be ready with some defense near their mineral line. Of course, you need to scout first so that you don't run into his defense. If you find, he has some, then you can either engage them head on depending if you can take them down and get some probes or you could create a distraction to try and draw some of them away. Alternatively, you could open a worm into his base with speedlings to lure his units away and then move your mutalisks and attack his probes, he won't know what's coming. There are a lot of different strategies and do the one that resonates with you







Air units aren't bad. I mean go mass mutalisks with some corruptors then up to hive, great spire and get brood lords from those corruptors. Essentially, your mutalisks will provide air support while the brood lords will take care of ground. You could build some roaches/speedlings to take care of your base or to at least hold off the enemy. NP works great if you can manage to control a colossus and then prevent the enemy from getting to your infestor by forming a line with your speedlings <- I have yet to try this, but, will make sure to in any games vs. protoss or possibly terran for the thor part







You forget that brood lords and corruptors own anything in this game. 3 corruptors will take down a carrier so a similar cost. Brood lords have long range and will prevent your opponent from getting close to them especially if they are surrounded by broodlings other than possibly blinking









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yes they are ready, but still it will keep them in the base which buys you more time. Plus if you're successful you'll get some econ lead. I don't really know how to help zerg, but nydus worm is the best thing you should learn to use.

Another good point. Putting pressure on them will relieve you of it and will allow you to further train units, etc.... I suggest you try to expand as much as possible. The extra minerals and especially gas will help you to build a TON of units in a short period of time. You could use the worms for transportation between your bases or you could alternatively put up a lot of defense(crawlers, spores)


----------



## DoomDash

I'm up!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm up!


You mean just woke up? I'm just heading to bed







Gotta wake up pretty early for work







Although, I could probably stay up a bit more tommorrow night for some 2 vs. 2 action







even though I probably shouldn't


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, scouting wasn't the greatest, although, I did scout before one of the attacks using a changeling(nydus worm drop that is). I mostly did expo for gas and then I usually make drones for minerals, but, yes, you are correct, I concentrated on my main and gas from my exp. While that wasn't me, I have no clue how it could be poor. He took out most of the drones at the two expansions. Yes, we didn't, definitely something to work on







As for combining mutas, not sure how well that would have worked. You keep forgetting that I had over 30 hydras around my base and we also had some thors and missile turrets. No doubt, they would have made some chaos since I barely had AA in my expo(3 hydras), but, not enough to win the game










The hellion attack was poor only because he could have killed a lot more drones. He should have gotten them out of the range of the queen.

Mutas do splash damage and they kill units A LOT faster in a group. Yes, you had Thors but Thors are slow. Hydras are also very slow off creep.

Those Mutas could have crippled you and your teammates to the point where they can win the game from just one more attack.

----

I have two GTX 460s. What kind of FPS should I be getting? In some 4v4 games, it would drop below 45. Is that normal? I kept trying to find more info about SCII and SLI on google but I find anything useful.


----------



## DoomDash

I could be wrong but SLI doesn't work for SCII?

I get pretty decent FPS but in some situations it drops a tad ( probably big 4v4's ).


----------



## listen to remix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I could be wrong but SLI doesn't work for SCII?

I get pretty decent FPS but in some situations it drops a tad ( probably big 4v4's ).


That's what I've been thinking but then I read that the 260.63 beta drivers for GTX 400 video cards are supposed to increase FPS by a certain percentage according to Nvidia.com.


----------



## DoomDash

Someone get on and play.


----------



## DoomDash

http://diamondgamer.com/

Lol I'd train someone for $47







.


----------



## DoomDash

Do we even have any actual Terran players on here besides myself. I can't help but noticing I am the only Terran player I know







.


----------



## thiru

Most of the people I play with from OCN are terran but don't post here.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I post here, and I play terran. But I'm terrible (silver) and I actually kinda hate terran. lol, but it's the only race I've spent any time with enough to learn a few builds.

I wanted to play zerg when I first started, but the difficulty curve was a real nutshot.


----------



## thiru

Join the dark side.
Play protoss.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Speaking of protoss, I pulled out an old TvZ on huskysc. I really like the way the toss defended against bane bust while fast expanding with canons. At the end 400+apm.


You Tube


----------



## poroboszcz

I got the US client.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I got the US client.

You bought one? or are you on the account?


----------



## mistargill

need a decent player. I'm sick of people leaving mid game and not helping eachother on rush (offence and defense)

The Korean in me cries for good players!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You bought one? or are you on the account?

No just installed it, so I can play on US server with Doomdash's account. Is there a Koth planned for tomorrow?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
No just installed it, so I can play on US server with Doomdash's account. Is there a Koth planned for tomorrow?

We can do a KOTH if there's enough people. Doesn't look like too many people saw my post, and I didn't make a thread (too late anyway). We can at least start one, and spam this thread so that people show up










(using the account, tell me if you want it)


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well in his defense I hate the 2v2 map line up. It's kind of hard especially for Zerg to expand on a map like that. Not saying he couldn't... but the 2v2 maps in the ladder pool are hard on Zerg. He still ended up saving my ass a few times







.

I know this is a few posts back, but I agree with the 2v2 map lineup, recently switched from toss to zerg.. and like it much better, but expanding on some of those maps is just ridonkulous.. same with some of the 3v3 maps where your natural expansion isn't by any accessable means to your main, so the only way to go is nydus...


----------



## Tchernobyl

okay, I feel like I'm getting worse and worse as I play >_> is there any sort of "practice" you guys would suggest? Such as, vs computer at insane level or whatever? Cause right now I feel like free points :/


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
okay, I feel like I'm getting worse and worse as I play >_> is there any sort of "practice" you guys would suggest? Such as, vs computer at insane level or whatever? Cause right now I feel like free points :/

Friends who are better than you. Or who know your weak points. What's your league?


----------



## Tchernobyl

upper gold (been wavering from #1 to 14ish), division Prelate Omicron~

edit: and i play zerg exclusively~ I mostly have early game problems, later on it's easier :x


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
upper gold (been wavering from #1 to 14ish), division Prelate Omicron~

Well I'm silver protoss working into gold (when I play against golds it says even match). If you want to try a practice post or PM me your id (since this US account isn't mine, I won't post this id).


----------



## Tchernobyl

Tchernobyl 907


----------



## thiru

Added








Want to play a game now?


----------



## Tchernobyl

sure! Though i'm eating a bowl of ramen at the moment so might be slightly distracted ;p


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
okay, I feel like I'm getting worse and worse as I play >_> is there any sort of "practice" you guys would suggest? Such as, vs computer at insane level or whatever? Cause right now I feel like free points :/

Learn to macro. Play against very hard, since insane is quite difficult and just focus on fundamentals: not getting supply blocked, spend all your money, scout well. I always play 1 game like this before i start to ladder. Also Multitasking Trainer is pretty good map to practice.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well I'm silver protoss working into gold (when I play against golds it says even match). If you want to try a practice post or PM me your id (since this US account isn't mine, I won't post this id).

Let me know if you need help playing as toss


----------



## rocklobsta1109

I need serious help as protoss, I started as zerg and moved to the toss. Im still a crappy bronze player though.


----------



## thiru

Well BigFan (Z), Tchernobyl (Z) and I (P) played a FFA... I won even though they pretty much only attacked me. Watching the replay reveals why: from 10 minutes to the end of the game, I had more workers than you two combined, and had the weakest army for the first dozen minutes. This is FFA, where it's not too risky to expand and focus on economy. Enemies will always start worrying when they leave the other players alone too long and retreat after dealing damage.

You guys need to drone harder. Ask Doomdash, his builds work. Even if you have to practice it all day, it will freaking rock. Or change race Tchernobyl lol. I know zerg is hard, I tried and gave up.
Expanding on gold was a good idea. Too bad that made you a target









@ThumperSD: you're a plat or diamond toss no? I don't think I have anything to practice more important than macro (I need to train myself to look at the warpgate button's number) right now (pretty tame gameplay in my ladder games, the only harass I have to deal with is muta)

Well except mutas (and even then it doesn't work against me consistently.. but it always annoys the hell out of me). What do you do? build cannons, phoenixes, get blink? Phoenix need microing and take too much of my attention and I find the stargate useless unless I switch to carriers (which I never do in ladder).

edit: well actually in the FFA we played I went phoenix into carriers and mothership... but nah can't pull that one off in a ladder.


----------



## ThumperSD

Platinum in 1v1 but probably would be diamond if i played more (Im 8-3). Im in diamond in team games.

What's wrong with your macro?

As for mutas, depending on how many there are, I like to split my stalkers in between my bases but in good position to move to the other base if needed. Keep zealots in front by choke. Sentries with stalkers may help but mutas usually fly away if there are more stalkers.

Phoenix is good against a small number of mutas esp if you know how to micro them but may be an unrealistic counter if your opponent goes for MASS mutas because you will need 2+ stargates to keep up with his muta production. If you go the phoenix route, use it to its full advantage by killing drones, overlords, and scouting for the spire.

Personally I think blink stalkers are the most efficient counter to this. If you can, upgrade armor to reduce splash dmg (works great if paired with guardian shield). Blink back the stalkers who have their shields drained and let your fresh stalkers take damage. If mutas fly away, blink stalkers to get a free kill or two.

Id throw up cannons only if the muta harassment is consistent and your opponent seems committed to it.

It's very important to not let your opponent contain you. You need to either harass, attack or scout during this time because your opponent may very well take every open expo (and macro like crazy) if you are contained. Use timing to your advantage like attack immediately after(or slightly before) blink is done.

Another good idea is to 4 gate your opponent if he techs straight to mutas or get an early expo


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Platinum in 1v1 but probably would be diamond if i played more (Im 8-3). Im in diamond in team games.

What's wrong with your macro?

As for mutas, depending on how many there are, I like to split my stalkers in between my bases but in good position to move to the other base if needed. Keep zealots in front by choke. Sentries with stalkers may help but mutas usually fly away if there are more stalkers.

Phoenix is good against a small number of mutas esp if you know how to micro them but may be an unrealistic counter if your opponent goes for MASS mutas because you will need 2+ stargates to keep up with his muta production. If you go the phoenix route, use it to its full advantage by killing drones, overlords, and scouting for the spire.

Personally I think blink stalkers are the most efficient counter to this. If you can, upgrade armor to reduce splash dmg (works great if paired with guardian shield). Blink back the stalkers who have their shields drained and let your fresh stalkers take damage. If mutas fly away, blink stalkers to get a free kill or two.

Id throw up cannons only if the muta harassment is consistent and your opponent seems committed to it.

It's very important to not let your opponent contain you. You need to either harass, attack or scout during this time because your opponent may very well take every open expo (and macro like crazy) if you are contained. Use timing to your advantage like attack immediately after(or slightly before) blink is done.

Another good idea is to 4 gate your opponent if he techs straight to mutas or get an early expo

Yeah in my last Z game I went blink and I suddenly felt much safer. I'll get armor, that's smart.

The build I'm currently practicing and using against zerg is warpgate and cyber and then fast expand (without pressuring Z, attack when I get 3 or 4 warpgates) at around 30 food. So far it's worked 9 times out of 10 or something, the only time it didn't work was when I failed to realize my opponent didn't fast expand and he killed me with 1 base roach (and it was on Xel Naga caverns lol).

I know it's supposed to be 2 gate pressure. I should probably do that instead right?

Currently what's really wrong with my macro is that I don't use warpgates as soon as the cycle ends at mid game. I need to learn to look at the warpgate button on the right side of the screen.


----------



## poroboszcz

I could use some hints on this PvP. I really wonder why I lost this game. It is a practice game against 800 toss. I had better macro (some supply blocks but not really game changing), more colossi and we were 1/1 vs 0/2 in upgrades. Yet he totally owned me in the final battle. There probably was a timing window when I could have attacked, but didn't because I was afraid of force fields. Maybe I could have harassed more with the back entrance to his base. Anyway I was ahead econ and army-wise and got totally obliterated. Any clues?

Edit: @thiru: I think your macro is pretty good for a silver player from what i remember, but it's generally just macro what's holding you back up to 1200+ diamond. I don't lose PvZ so if you're on EU give me a shout and I'll give you some tips. Btw if there are any good zergs on US I'd really like to play them.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I could use some hints on this PvP. I really wonder why I lost this game. It is a practice game against 800 toss. I had better macro (some supply blocks but not really game changing), more colossi and we were 1/1 vs 0/2 in upgrades. Yet he totally owned me in the final battle. There probably was a timing window when I could have attacked, but didn't because I was afraid of force fields. Maybe I could have harassed more with the back entrance to his base. Anyway I was ahead econ and army-wise and got totally obliterated. Any clues?

Edit: @thiru: I think your macro is pretty good for a silver player from what i remember, but it's generally just macro what's holding you back up to 1200+ diamond. I don't lose PvZ so if you're on EU give me a shout and I'll give you some tips. Btw if there are any good zergs on US I'd really like to play them.

I'm no expert but I think it's the 4 immortals.

I don't really lose PvZ either because not everyone goes heavy muta or does light muta harass effectively, but when they do it's really annoying.

edit: and yeah I'd ask but when I'm in game I usually can't think of anything in particular


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rocklobsta1109* 
I need serious help as protoss, I started as zerg and moved to the toss. Im still a crappy bronze player though.

You're probably not as bad as me. I only play Zerg and I absolutely suck against any Protoss player who has any skill. I almost feel like taunting the Protoss players I actually beat. Only good thing I can say about my game is I seldom lose against Terran. Good Zerg players usually beat me, though not as bad as the Protoss guys do.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well BigFan (Z), Tchernobyl (Z) and I (P) played a FFA... I won even though they pretty much only attacked me. Watching the replay reveals why: from 10 minutes to the end of the game, I had more workers than you two combined, and had the weakest army for the first dozen minutes. This is FFA, where it's not too risky to expand and focus on economy. Enemies will always start worrying when they leave the other players alone too long and retreat after dealing damage.

LIES! LIES! lol, seriously though, you are almost correct. You attacked me, I tried to strike back at your mineral line with mutalisks, but, you had some pc and stalkers nearby. Then I got attacked by Tchernobyl with his mass mutalisks and was able to repel him, although, he took my 2nd exp out, since, I just got it started. I kept on spreading creep and did some scouting of your base. I did see a carrier and some stalkers, thus, I tried to mass corruptors, but, was running out of resources and then you struck. It was too late to make more defense and I wasn't expecting a mothership to cloak, although, I did make some overseers to see your units, but, I wasn't able to micro them to attack other units due to the messy battle and you know the rest







I was starting to get worried, but, I assumed you were massing zealots+stalkers+sentries and coming soon enough. I had no clue what Tchernobyl was up to, since, I didn't scout him base out. I was also hesitant to expand further. Mistakes: Not enough scouting and messed up my macro(less mineral intake than optimal).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
You're probably not as bad as me. I only play Zerg and I absolutely suck against any Protoss player who has any skill. I almost feel like taunting the Protoss players I actually beat. Only good thing I can say about my game is I seldom lose against Terran. Good Zerg players usually beat me, though not as bad as the Protoss guys do.

protoss are harder to deal with than terran since fungal growth+banenlings are great vs. MMM ball


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah in my last Z game I went blink and I suddenly felt much safer. I'll get armor, that's smart.

The build I'm currently practicing and using against zerg is warpgate and cyber and then fast expand (without pressuring Z, attack when I get 3 or 4 warpgates) at around 30 food. So far it's worked 9 times out of 10 or something, the only time it didn't work was when I failed to realize my opponent didn't fast expand and he killed me with 1 base roach (and it was on Xel Naga caverns lol).

I know it's supposed to be 2 gate pressure. I should probably do that instead right?

Currently what's really wrong with my macro is that I don't use warpgates as soon as the cycle ends at mid game. I need to learn to look at the warpgate button on the right side of the screen.

You can also build your first pylon at your natural expo then throw up a forge and cannon immediately. If your opponent does a 6 pool you would probably be screwed though.

And what are you comparing the 2gate to? A 1 gate?

As far as upgrades, I like to get the damage upgrade first if I am going against a smaller army of powerful/massive units; and get the armor upgrade against mass high dps units or splash dmging units.

This is the fast expo I like to go with vs zerg:
9 pylon @ expo (try to block with buildings of course)
12 forge
16 cannon
Pylon
Nexus
Gateway
Assimilator
the rest is up to what you want to do

Constantly warping in units will take some repetitive practice. Use hotkeys!!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I could use some hints on this PvP. I really wonder why I lost this game. It is a practice game against 800 toss. I had better macro (some supply blocks but not really game changing), more colossi and we were 1/1 vs 0/2 in upgrades. Yet he totally owned me in the final battle. There probably was a timing window when I could have attacked, but didn't because I was afraid of force fields. Maybe I could have harassed more with the back entrance to his base. Anyway I was ahead econ and army-wise and got totally obliterated. Any clues?

Edit: @thiru: I think your macro is pretty good for a silver player from what i remember, but it's generally just macro what's holding you back up to 1200+ diamond. I don't lose PvZ so if you're on EU give me a shout and I'll give you some tips. Btw if there are any good zergs on US I'd really like to play them.


I tried opening the replay but this is the error I got
"The launch of this game makes reference to mod or map dependencies which are no longer available"


----------



## Tchernobyl

We should do a massive OCN FFA >_>


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I could use some hints on this PvP. I really wonder why I lost this game. It is a practice game against 800 toss. I had better macro (some supply blocks but not really game changing), more colossi and we were 1/1 vs 0/2 in upgrades. Yet he totally owned me in the final battle. There probably was a timing window when I could have attacked, but didn't because I was afraid of force fields. Maybe I could have harassed more with the back entrance to his base. Anyway I was ahead econ and army-wise and got totally obliterated. Any clues?


At the time of the final push, he was 2/0/0 while you were only 1/0/0 - your 2nd upgrade wasn't quite finished, and luckily for him he pushed at the right time. Despite the fact that you were both around ~170 supply, the fact that he had immortals and zealot leg speed tipped the scales in his favor. His zealots were able to charge in and keep your army tightly clumped for his colossi, while your zealots got caught in the back of your army. He simply had better army positioning that made a close fight look one-sided.

It looks like your macro was pretty solid the whole game; it just came down to a micro/unit spread issue at the end. Both sentry FF and zealot leg speed complement colossi and help to keep things clumped, so if you had worked one or the other into your army you could have turned the tables.

I'm by no means an expert, but those are a couple of things I noticed skipping through the replay for the first time.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I could use some hints on this PvP. I really wonder why I lost this game. It is a practice game against 800 toss. I had better macro (some supply blocks but not really game changing), more colossi and we were 1/1 vs 0/2 in upgrades. Yet he totally owned me in the final battle. There probably was a timing window when I could have attacked, but didn't because I was afraid of force fields. Maybe I could have harassed more with the back entrance to his base. Anyway I was ahead econ and army-wise and got totally obliterated. Any clues?

Edit: @thiru: I think your macro is pretty good for a silver player from what i remember, but it's generally just macro what's holding you back up to 1200+ diamond. I don't lose PvZ so if you're on EU give me a shout and I'll give you some tips. Btw if there are any good zergs on US I'd really like to play them.



Quite simply, that last battle was that their chargelots forced coli to focus fire them while you were bunched up to give their colossus maximum effectiveness. That and combined with 4 immortals to absorb the blow and 60 vs armor damage vs you. Your forces was basically being surrounded.

Macrowise you did a lot of things illogically. You went 1 base colossus with thermal lance but you didn't push with it. So why get the colossus/support bay then when you could've expanded. You also had 3 wargates and 1 robo when you did expand, but most of the time they were unused during this time. In the mid game, you had even more gates, but didn't produce out of it. In addition you didn't make any prisms or proxy pylons to utilize the gates to harass.

Your third base was a bit awkward. Why did you expand at all during then. After you expanded you didn't cover that large choke. When his army came to you that is where and how your units should've been placed for maximum effectiveness with the lance and stalker surround.

One of the things I abs hate is how I would go charge and blink as well, like the orange toss, but never use blink. What a waste.


----------



## thiru

King of the hill tomorrow?








I may try to organize one properly (with a thread and sign up) for next week or so, but I figure we can try tomorrow for fun, and if not, we still play some games.

We can start at 4PM with a few people and if you can't, just show up any after 4 since a KOTH is a mini-tourney where one game is played after the other, winner stays.

Just start posting in this thread at 4 tomorrow and we'll add each other as you show up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


King of the hill tomorrow?








I may try to organize one properly (with a thread and sign up) for next week or so, but I figure we can try tomorrow for fun, and if not, we still play some games.

We can start at 4PM with a few people and if you can't, just show up any after 4 since a KOTH is a mini-tourney where one game is played after the other, winner stays.

Just start posting in this thread at 4 tomorrow and we'll add each other as you show up.


While I'm up for the idea, 4 is too soon and at the same time, my net might be acting up then, so I would have to wait longer


----------



## xHassassin

I'm up for that.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm up for it... 2pm what time zone?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Count me in, though I gota clean and work, then have a hockey game at night.


----------



## ThumperSD

I'll probably be down for the tourny too

Does anybody have a spare *guest pass* around? Ive been trying to get one so my little cousin can play with me online. I gave both of mine away.


----------



## thiru

lol can't believe I forgot to write the time zone.

Was thinking about *4PM Eastern*.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Phantom mode is definitely the most fun I've been having with starcraft 2








for those who don't know what it is:
-free for all
- 3 player "types": slayer (no bonuses), paladin (bonus money) and phantom (bonus money and supply every 10 minutes).
- slayers and pallies are allied, must kill phantoms. Phantoms must kill everyone else.
- you don't know who is what, but are told what YOU are. Phantoms don't know each other for the first half hour.
- everyone starts allied and with shared vision (though that's an option you can turn off at the start of the game too)

You must find out who is what and kill them before you get killed yourself









I was phantom during this last game, one guy reaper rushed another guy early on... which put the suspicion of being phantoms on BOTH early on. Various people who helped either the rushed person or the rusher also got accused at some points. The actual phantoms, me (zerg) and yellow zerg, rarely got accused at all. Yellow did as he attacked other people early, but I just stayed behind doing little except teching/upgrading/getting an army ready.

I stayed under supply cap (185/240 in my case) for a long time, but at some point maxed out supply on ultralisks and hid them in a nydus canal. When only 3 non phantoms were left, yellow and I proceeded to maul everyone else









I can upload a replay if you guys want.


----------



## thiru

Hahaha

Usually I play phantom with one or two other people and usually one of us is phantom, but we just secretely ally and rape everyone else just for the lulz


----------



## Tchernobyl

That rather ruins the gameplay, i find







stop it! be a bastard and go against your friends


----------



## thiru

Nah it's too funny to make people rage and completely screw up the game


----------



## DoomDash

I might be a tad late.


----------



## DoomDash

or maybe not at all cause I'm picking up a car today.

*Edit* "

Boxer made it into the GSL round of 64!!!!


----------



## eSpitfire

I need help on choosing the best out of these 3 for starcraft 2,I plan on buying a cheap 60$ 1gb graphics at new egg next week so the graphics on these shouldn't matter..

http://www.frys.com/product/6147929?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

http://www.frys.com/product/6277260?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

http://www.frys.com/product/6292160?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

specs are on bottom of page, any help would be appreciated


----------



## thiru

Surprise naps FTL.

Ok I'll be on starting now if anyone wants to start the KotH. 2 of us online, if I see 4 we can start







(add Huggle edit: took the number off since nobody showed up)

@espitfire: you'll need at least a triple core for SC2. Either AMD system will do, but the one with the 635 has a more recent CPU and chipset (AM3) that is compatible with the recent stuff, so I'd take that.
Of course if you can build your own system it'd be even better, but at this price range, if you don't have an OS, the prices will be very close.


----------



## sl10

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
okay, I feel like I'm getting worse and worse as I play >_> is there any sort of "practice" you guys would suggest? Such as, vs computer at insane level or whatever? Cause right now I feel like free points :/

practice buildorders by yourself; get it fluid and solid.


----------



## sl10

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhelanJKell* 
Just purchased this, I hope it is as good as everyone says! haha

you wont be disappointed ;p


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sl10* 
practice buildorders by yourself; get it fluid and solid.

Practicing build orders is useless for zerg...

edit: Just played a 2v2 PTvPP. Beating fast void rays noobs never felt so good. (disclaimers: played really bad but we won







)

And yeah KotH is dead, no surprise considering how long ago I announced it. May organize one properly in the future.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think we've been arguing enough recently.

Let's talk about balance.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
@espitfire: you'll need at least a triple core for SC2. Either AMD system will do, but the one with the 635 has a more recent CPU and chipset (AM3) that is compatible with the recent stuff, so I'd take that.
Of course if you can build your own system it'd be even better, but at this price range, if you don't have an OS, the prices will be very close.

Dual core systems actually handle SC2 very well. Tom's Hardware had an article this week where they looked at potential bottlenecks in systems with an i5-750 and a GTX460. They tested a bunch of games with the i5 using 1/2/4 cores at 3 or 4GHz and observed framerates and CPU/GPU utilization.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ck,2738-9.html

Quote:

If you play StarCraft II with a single-core CPU, you won't get the most out of a GeForce GTX 460. The game is rather content with a dual-core CPU, and while it leverages a quad-core CPU, only two of the cores are fully utilized, with graphics card utilization climbing from 93 to 96 percent. Overclocking yields a slight decrease in frame rates. This brings CPU utilization down somewhat, while graphics card utilization goes up to 97 percent.
That being said, a quad is probably the better choice going forward as games start to utilize more cores, but it's not so cut and dry right now. A dual core CPU would probably pair better with a "$60 1GB card," but with everything in the same price-point the quad gives you more options for the future.


----------



## EmMure

hey guys had a good night ill be advancing to the next round of the msi sc2 tourney


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Dual core systems actually handle SC2 very well. Tom's Hardware had an article this week where they looked at potential bottlenecks in systems with an i5-750 and a GTX460. They tested a bunch of games with the i5 using 1/2/4 cores at 3 or 4GHz and observed framerates and CPU/GPU utilization.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ck,2738-9.html

That being said, a quad is probably the better choice going forward as games start to utilize more cores, but it's not so cut and dry right now. A dual core CPU would probably pair better with a "$60 1GB card," but with everything in the same price-point the quad gives you more options for the future.

How about actually giving him advice he can use by telling him which to buy?

edit: @EmMure: oh awesome! what's your id?


----------



## EmMure

heezay 816

im not on that much..im more of a counter strike 1.6 guy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
heezay 816

im not on that much..im more of a counter strike 1.6 guy

I was a Counter Strike 1.0 guy. Each patch got worse and worse. Moved on to bigger and better things







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I'll probably be down for the tourny too

Does anybody have a spare *guest pass* around? Ive been trying to get one so my little cousin can play with me online. I gave both of mine away.

I think I do, wouldn't mind sending the code if you need it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't think we've been arguing enough recently.

Let's talk about balance.

lol, i agree, there has to be some argument on here







Well, I think the roach range is gonna be great. More health for buildings is nice. Did a test with roach vs. marauder and stalker, seperately of course, marauder and stalker won by 50hp and 35 respectively. This included no upgrading(shells), etc.... Point is I think the stalker one is decent due to their cost vs. roaches, but, as for marauders, not too sure. Having said that, I think they are fine the way they are, after all, roaches can kite zealots as well. I dislike the reaper nerf and the whole depot before barracks, but, really like the fungal growth one. Means stalker can be sitting ducks since they can't blink out









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
hey guys had a good night ill be advancing to the next round of the msi sc2 tourney

Congrats, sounds interesting, seems to be sc2 tournaments all over the place









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I was a Counter Strike 1.0 guy. Each patch got worse and worse. Moved on to bigger and better things







.

Interesting, but, sc2 and cs 1.0 are two totally different things


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Congrats, sounds interesting, seems to be sc2 tournaments all over the place









)


yup lol,grand prize is 1.500 bucks and a chance to play idra from eg for a gt660 laptop


----------



## DoomDash

Hope you're pretty sick. I can't even win the oc.net tournament







.


----------



## EmMure

lol i know i wont win,huk is playing along with alot of the usa top players


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
yup lol,grand prize is 1.500 bucks and a chance to play idra from eg for a gt660 laptop

That's interesting(prize+laptop), not so much the idra thing though, lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Hope you're pretty sick. I can't even win the Overclock.net tournament







.

Well, you just need the practice, is all









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
lol i know i wont win,huk is playing along with alot of the usa top players

lol, but, seriously, stop selling yourself short. I have no clue how well you play and how you stack up, but, just like HuK and all those top usa players as well as the Koreans got there, you can as well, with practice of course. I would love to have a match to see where I stack up against you


----------



## xHassassin

Go 2 base BCs in TvT with mass marines.










PERFECT BUILD


----------



## DoomDash

Then lose to anything + Vikings.


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, but, seriously, stop selling yourself short. I have no clue how well you play and how you stack up, but, just like HuK and all those top usa players as well as the Koreans got there, you can as well, with practice of course. I would love to have a match to see where I stack up against you










believe me i know haha im like top 10 for bronze league i got lucky i made it to round 2


----------



## DoomDash

Bronze, yikes







. Was the guy you beat also Bronze?


----------



## thiru

LOL
canon rush your way to the finals!


----------



## EmMure

no,kid was platinum


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hope you're pretty sick. I can't even win the Overclock.net tournament







.


Who ended up winning it?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Who ended up winning it?


oktoberfest ( 1700+ Protoss, I'm only 1300+ ) beat me in the finals 3-2. Pretty close series. I should have stuck with my safer build for the final game


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


no,kid was platinum


Noice


----------



## DoomDash

Sucks for that guy. I've never lost to anything below Platinum, even with my off races.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I wish I could say the same but I keep loosing to gold zerg that does muta ling bane

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
LOL
canon rush your way to the finals!

LOL switch to zerg and just 6 pool to it

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Then lose to anything + Vikings.

LOL true


----------



## DoomDash

and you play what race?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Toss haven't played in a while, played 2 ladder games in the last 3 weeks.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How about actually giving him advice he can use by telling him which to buy?

Sorry for assuming that he's got a brain of his own and can use the information we're giving him to make an informed choice. You said that SC2 *requires* 3+ cores; I linked to an article saying otherwise - the 3rd core is barely utilized. Ultimately it depends on how much he wants to spend and what he wants to do in the future.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Toss haven't played in a while, played 2 ladder games in the last 3 weeks.

Sentry blink stalker with a few zealots. FF banelings and lings all day.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That ain't the issue. Giving zerg the whole map to control is; then it becomes 3-4 base zerg vs 2 base tos.


----------



## DoomDash

2-3 gate phoenix. Use phoenix to snipe queens and to patrol the map.


----------



## DoomDash

Good day9 interview at IEM:


You Tube


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Played 6 mathches there at the weekend and won them all, felt good







. I feel as if im getting the hang of Zerg and macroing up. Im using day9's advice of droning up until my zergling see's what comes out of his base, I then prepare an appropriate defense based on what I see, then once it is dealt with I have a good economic lead.

Im still in Silver league though I played and beat a couple of Gold league players this weekend. One of the gold league playes tried a silly proxy pylon. I dealt with that with a queen and some zerglings then teched to mutas. The gold player then came at me with about 15 zealots and no stalkers which my mutas took care of. He then left after 15 mins. Hopefully I'l get to Gold this weekend









Matt


----------



## DoomDash

sKss ( tester ) and oGsTop failed to qualify for GSL #2 round of 64!!!!

*EDIT*

TLO QUALIFIES AGAIN







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
That's interesting(prize+laptop), not so much the idra thing though, lol.

I'd take playing vs Idra over money any day









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
sKss ( tester ) and oGsTop failed to qualify for GSL #2 round of 64!!!!

*EDIT*

TLO QUALIFIES AGAIN







.

Good for TLO, no tester saddens me though.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Then lose to anything + Vikings.


Kinda why you have marines man.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Kinda why you have marines man.











Maybe you are misunderstanding. You will lose 0 vikings when microed properly ( kiting BC's all day is easy ), and you'll have far less money in the bank for the rest of your army ( because you wasted it on BC's that won't kill anything ).


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Maybe you are misunderstanding. You will lose 0 vikings when microed properly ( kiting BC's all day is easy ), and you'll have far less money in the bank for the rest of your army ( because you wasted it on BC's that won't kill anything ).


Fine you can make vikings too, altered the build. Happy?

:<

Or you could just yamato the vikings, 10 > 9.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Fine you can make vikings too, altered the build. Happy?

:<

Or you could just yamato the vikings, 10 > 9.



If you like to lose that's fine.







. GL having enough BC's to yamato each viking, because with any micro at all the vikings will not get hit besides from the cannons.

I'm just telling you if they have a starport with a reactor ( or more than 1 ), don't build BC's.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Sorry for assuming that he's got a brain of his own and can use the information we're giving him to make an informed choice. You said that SC2 *requires* 3+ cores; I linked to an article saying otherwise - the 3rd core is barely utilized. Ultimately it depends on how much he wants to spend and what he wants to do in the future.

Yeah, requires was a bad word. I meant use. Because it uses up to 3 cores. Check it.

edit: also played the shortest game of my life today. Played against a random player who was protoss (I'm protoss myself). I send my probe to make a pylon at the ramp since I didn't know which race he was, and I see his probe coming up. I put down the pylon and kill the probe. The guy quits because he didn't even have a pylon down.
Fail cannon rush.


----------



## deanlewandowski

I love coming back and winning against a cheese build.

A lot of players I face in the Bronze league must not know how to play an actual game.
If their 6 pool/ cannon rush fails they don't know what to do after that.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't get cheesed much.


----------



## thiru

Me neither. This is the 3rd time I've been cannon rushed and I've been 10-pooled once.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I had a short game yesterday as well, it was odd...

The guy was doing barracks only, it seems, and he first sent one marine, then sent in 4-5 marines in another wave, then... quit?

When i scouted his base( i continued after he left to see what he had), he had 3 barracks with no attachements and was just pumping marines....


----------



## DoomDash

I had one guy do a double gate proxy on Blistering.. after holding it off with nothing more than a few marines well microed, he said WP and just left.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah that's some silver crap right there.


----------



## deanlewandowski

What does everybody think of the two new maps?

I've only played them a few times each.
Not 100% sure about the layout of them so I've been using Mutalisks and a lot of Nydus Worms to move my troops around.

One Protoss player did a really good job abusing the cliffs above my 3rd expansion on the Shakuras Plateau map.
Blinked a bunch of Stalkers up there and rained down lasers on my Drones until I pulled them off the line and moved an Overlord up there so Hydras would have vision up the cliff.
Does one race have a greater ability to exploit these maps than the others?
(Terran tanks?)


----------



## thiru

Terran can drop tanks easily and pretty early.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Bleh. Playing vs very hard computers doesn't really help with training... they don't wall in. Which every terran/toss does now


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Bleh. Playing vs very hard computers doesn't really help with training... they don't wall in. Which every terran/toss does now









Can you beat insane terran or protoss as zerg? it's really hard compared to other match ups. But I suck at zerg.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I beat a very hard terran as zerg, but only once. Then again i was trying something that didn't quite work out (early expand on steppes of war, maybe not a good idea considering the travel distance)
edit: i can beat insane comps with 6 pooling or something of the sort, but I would rather learn how to win without cheese


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Bleh. Playing vs very hard computers doesn't really help with training... they don't wall in. Which every terran/toss does now









You're missing the point here. You can train against very easy AI and still benefit from it. The goal of training is not to beat your opponent, but to improve your game.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Playing against the AI can be good to practice your build orders and scouting, but yeah its never going to be the same as practice against a real human opponent.
Still good and I do a game or two against computer to warm up if I havent played in a while.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Bleh. Playing vs very hard computers doesn't really help with training... they don't wall in. Which every terran/toss does now









I agree. One of my big complaints about SC2 is that the AI does a lousy job of mimicing what human players do in league play. I think everybody could get a lot better a lot faster if the AI had more value as a teaching tool.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You're missing the point here. You can train against very easy AI and still benefit from it. The goal of training is not to beat your opponent, but to improve your game.

my issue is that I can't really respond well to what the enemy is doing because they are either protoss or terran and have walled in, and I can't scout correctly until overseers which by then it's often too late









Computer makes it easy to scout and respond to.


----------



## thiru

Sacrifice an overlord.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I do, usually. It just feels wrong to *have* to do so where the other races don't....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
no,kid was platinum

oh, TBH, I was thinking you were likely in diamond, either way, great work









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't get cheesed much.

I've only gotten cheesed a couple of times, mostly when my opponent was a zerg and did a 6 pool and it caught me off guard







I've had something like a proxy pylon but here is where it gets interesting. He hid a probe in my base early on behind a tree, so, even though I checked for a possible pylon assuming that he left, he ended up building one afterwards and warped dts and after they took down most of my base, I recovered and discovered the pylon but it was too late then before his next wave finished me off









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I had a short game yesterday as well, it was odd...

The guy was doing barracks only, it seems, and he first sent one marine, then sent in 4-5 marines in another wave, then... quit?

When i scouted his base( i continued after he left to see what he had), he had 3 barracks with no attachements and was just pumping marines....

wow, that would be a blast to play. Pumping out lings like crazy would take his down easy







My shortest game was 7.5 minutes. It consisted of me building like usual but also scouted the opponent's base. He had only a pylon near entrance, so, I thought I might as well attack. I build zerglings and sent to his base JUST as his 3 zealots were coming around the corner. They chased the zerglings to his base at which point I got his forces following my drone in a circle and they left to attack my base. I kept sending zerglings to his base and eventually went to defend mine from his 7-8 zealots along with building more crawlers. I also decided to build a hatchery near his nexus







Eventually, he decided to attack my base and my queen+4 crawlers tore apart his zealots and he left. Watching the replay, I realized that he actually build gateways close to my base, very sneaky









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You're missing the point here. You can train against very easy AI and still benefit from it. The goal of training is not to beat your opponent, but to improve your game.

True. When I wanted to play a bit with zerg and learn the new units, I played a very easy AI and took my time to learn the different abilities, etc....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Playing against the AI can be good to practice your build orders and scouting, but yeah its never going to be the same as practice against a real human opponent.
Still good and I do a game or two against computer to warm up if I havent played in a while.

Well, of couse not, but, it's still good enough to practice against









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I agree. One of my big complaints about SC2 is that the AI does a lousy job of mimicing what human players do in league play. I think everybody could get a lot better a lot faster if the AI had more value as a teaching tool.

hmm, you have a point. They still seem better than sc1 AI, lol. 10+ zealots attack your base in sc1 or possibly 13+ marines, can't remember zerg. It was ALWAYS the same, timing and everything. It was also funny that if you played against 6c, there was a good chance one possibly two of the computers decide to get stuck at gas and thus they don't make any units or build any structures


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
my issue is that I can't really respond well to what the enemy is doing because they are either protoss or terran and have walled in, and I can't scout correctly until overseers which by then it's often too late









Computer makes it easy to scout and respond to.

When you play practice games against people you often agree to what they are going to do, which doesn't decrease teaching value of these games. You can't do it against the AI, but you have easier time scouting. I don't believe you lose your games only because you didn't scout something on time and got taken by surprise.

Just focus on other things: spreading creep, injecting larva, timings for scounting/attacking etc. Make it the goal of your game, e.g. spreading creep with 2 extra queens as fast as possible, while macroing well or harassing with mutas effectively while always injecting larva on time. If you won, but missed larva many times - you did bad. If you lost, but your larva injection was almost perfect, you're on the right way of becoming a better player. The only matches when you should really care about the result are ladder (arguably) and tournament.


----------



## KaiZ51

Hey guys, just a quick question, do you think I should skip Practice League? Here are my currents stats in Practice League:


----------



## soul999

Hey guys I have a question I used to play broodwar long time ago. In broodwar you had to micro your workers I wasn't very good at it. In starcraft 2 do your workers automine? Also if you've played sc1 is sc2 easier or harder to play than sc1?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I do, usually. It just feels wrong to *have* to do so where the other races don't....

I usually just drop a changeling but by then, as mentioned, it's too late. I should definitely explore this overload idea, although, they are soo slow that I would need to sneak one in to see what they are doing









Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
Hey guys, just a quick question, do you think I should skip Practice League? Here are my currents stats in Practice League:



The practice league is bad in the sense that it causes you to turtle. I still remember this one game where I attacked my zerg opponent using mutalisks, he countered with hydras and came to my base with his roaches+hydras to try to finish me off. I saw his roaches near the rocks near my base and proceeded to make my defense. I also used my mutalisks to attack them while he was destroying the rocks. Suffice to say, he suffered very heavy casualties and I ended up winning. Had there been no rocks there like the ladder, then he would have won, no doubt about it. My point is practice is good to get a feel for the game, the units, map, playing with another human, etc... but, it's very different from the actual league. Personally, I think you should go ahead and jump into the league. Just play as best as possible and you can always move up the rank. I should mention that the league is faster in speed, so, don't be surprised by that









Quote:


Originally Posted by *soul999* 
Hey guys I have a question I used to play broodwar long time ago. In broodwar you had to micro your workers I wasn't very good at it. In starcraft 2 do your workers automine? Also if you've played sc1 is sc2 easier or harder to play than sc1?

micro workers? Well, you can select what minerals they harvest from and if there are 3 on each batch, then they move to another one themselves. Does that answer your question?







As for the sc2 easier or harder, well, it's the same and its quite different. Depending on what race you play, it can be similar(zerg has maintained a decent # of units, although, they have changed in terms of damage, armor, tier, etc....) or quite different(terran had a complete change, some units remain like scv, marines, tanks, but, units like thor, marauders, hellions, etc.... are new and are interesting to use).


----------



## EmMure

anyone wanna play with me right now? im kinda bored


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
When you play practice games against people you often agree to what they are going to do, which doesn't decrease teaching value of these games. You can't do it against the AI, but you have easier time scouting. I don't believe you lose your games only because you didn't scout something on time and got taken by surprise.

Just focus on other things: spreading creep, injecting larva, timings for scounting/attacking etc. Make it the goal of your game, e.g. spreading creep with 2 extra queens as fast as possible, while macroing well or harassing with mutas effectively while always injecting larva on time. If you won, but missed larva many times - you did bad. If you lost, but your larva injection was almost perfect, you're on the right way of becoming a better player. The only matches when you should really care about the result are ladder (arguably) and tournament.

I don't think you need 2 extra queens, unless you feel like an air attack is coming and you dont have hydra/muta on the way.

One queen per hatchery is fine. I generally spread creep as soon as my first queen spawns. You can easily have half the map in creep vision fairly quickly.

Sacing an ovie only costs 100 minerals anyways. A scan costs terran 300 minerals, and an observer costs protoss is 50/100. So imo zerg has the best scouting in the game.


----------



## Tchernobyl

It's a 100 minerals near the start of the game, where that's still important enough!


----------



## DoomDash

Don't lose your very first overlord till your setup pretty well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


It's a 100 minerals near the start of the game, where that's still important enough!


Agree to this, very important. I think the next best idea if you aren't interested in losing that overload is to slip an overload behind their base from the start of the game and then tech to lair quickly while keep the towers activate. After getting the lair, morph to overseer and use changeling. Yes, you are taking a chance since it's quite possible they might attack before that, but, getting some speedlings/banenlings/roach would help reduce the likehood of you losing if they attack. Of course, make sure to have a queen or two and some spore crawlers for defense incase of banshee attack, otherwise, it's GG. I'm up for a game if anyone is interested


----------



## Tchernobyl

by the way, bigfan, it's overlo*r*d


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't get cheesed much.


90% of bronze games are cheese.

It's really annoying.

I got cheesed 3/5 of my placement matches, lost all 3.


----------



## EmMure

i see how it is noone wants to play


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


90% of bronze games are cheese.

It's really annoying.

I got cheesed 3/5 of my placement matches, lost all 3.


Cheese usually stops around high point platinum.. I haven't encountered any cheese for quite awhile now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


by the way, bigfan, it's overlo*r*d










lol, typo is all









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i see how it is noone wants to play


I'm going to be on in <5min


----------



## EmMure

i got my draw for round 2...i drew a diamond lol


----------



## EmMure

whats ur gamer name and code?


----------



## Moheevi_chess

I'll be on in a little bit. SoLoDoLo.763


----------



## deanlewandowski

OK i need some SERIOUS help understanding what went wrong with this game.
I had MAX supply at 200 food
TONS of units and was on 3 base when this Protoss was only on 2 base

I attacked and he walked all over my units like they wernt even there.
What did I do wrong? Was my unit composition that off?
I dont know *** went wrong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## xHassassin

Did you go roach/hydra vs 8 colossus or something?


----------



## DoomDash

Day9 funday monday wont be good for me this week. kill people in a ffa in alphabetical order. I'm D







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Day9 funday monday wont be good for me this week. kill people in a ffa in alphabetical order. I'm D







.


oh, I see, what you mean now, but, monday already passed or I guess this is for next week. Either way, I'm B, so, I get to be attacked first









Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


OK i need some SERIOUS help understanding what went wrong with this game.
I had MAX supply at 200 food
TONS of units and was on 3 base when this Protoss was only on 2 base

I attacked and he walked all over my units like they wernt even there.
What did I do wrong? Was my unit composition that off?
I dont know *** went wrong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I'll take a look








Edit: Not opening for some reason, I mean website :/


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Anyone want to 1v1? I'm up for any map/matchup. Just bored xD. SoLoDoLo.763 msg me


----------



## deanlewandowski

Amazing game from Fruitdealer using all Queens just to mess around:

http://www.sc2-strategy.com/an-amazi...ious-pvz-game/


----------



## DoomDash

Really old







.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Surprised someone besides myself is still awake at this hour. (4am now here)


----------



## DoomDash

I'm always awake at this time. It's only 3 but I stay up till 7-8am.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I'm only staying awake because I usually get home from work at 2:10am, and it takes me until now to wind down and go to bed.


----------



## burwij

Wall o' text inc luls.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


OK i need some SERIOUS help understanding what went wrong with this game.
I had MAX supply at 200 food
TONS of units and was on 3 base when this Protoss was only on 2 base

I attacked and he walked all over my units like they wernt even there.
What did I do wrong? Was my unit composition that off?
I dont know *** went wrong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Did a quick run-through of your replay and noticed several things you could work on.

- You had a ton of minerals throughout most of the game. You did a good job of trying to expand and take over the map, but if you're not spending the minerals that you gain by expanding it kind of defeats the purpose. As zerg you should try to think of larvae as another resource - minerals, gas, larvae. If you see yourself getting high on money and you don't have the larva to make anything, don't be afraid to throw down another Hatchery in your main base.

- Make sure you're always injecting larva with your queens as often as you can. This kind of ties in with the previous point - most of your queens had pretty high energy by the end which means you missed some injects throughout the course of the game. If you keep up with larva production throughout the game you'll be able to spend those minerals a lot easier.

- You also didn't upgrade your units past 1/1. If you see your money spiraling out of control and you can't make things fast enough, double check to make sure you're upgrading as much as you can. It's ok to throw down more than one Evolution Chamber later in the game to get upgrades simultaneously.

- As far as the final engagement went with your armies, he was able to kill off your army pretty easily because you didn't engage with everything all at once. If I'm remembering correctly you had some roaches/lings/banelings sitting in the back that didn't get used until your mutas and brood lords died. The push at his rocks with lings and banelings also didn't net you much of anything, so you weren't able to use those to your advantage.

Don't worry about unit composition too much in the lower leagues. For what it's worth, yours was a little crazy as you kinda had one of everything towards the end. Instead of worrying about what to build, just make sure you're building *something* at all points of the game. Keep your minerals low, keep injecting larva, make sure you don't get supply capped, and eventually you'll have a much easier time.

Day9 just recently started doing a "Newbie Tuesday" webcast that looks at lower-level play and focuses on the basics. The episode last week was specifically about zerg, but all of the basic ideas are pretty applicable when you're trying to learn the game.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4210235/


----------



## DoomDash

State of the game is ou t for the week. I love these. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=145494


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moheevi_chess* 
Cheese usually stops around high point platinum.. I haven't encountered any cheese for quite awhile now.

That's funny. Cheese happens even at the pro level. Just not as often.


----------



## poroboszcz

It's generally around high plat/low diamond though where people learn how to appropriately scout and answer to cheese, so it becomes high risk - high reward strategy. In gold and lower leagues it's more of a low risk - high reward, thus much more popular.


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigfan* 
the practice league is bad in the sense that it causes you to turtle. I still remember this one game where i attacked my zerg opponent using mutalisks, he countered with hydras and came to my base with his roaches+hydras to try to finish me off. I saw his roaches near the rocks near my base and proceeded to make my defense. I also used my mutalisks to attack them while he was destroying the rocks. Suffice to say, he suffered very heavy casualties and i ended up winning. Had there been no rocks there like the ladder, then he would have won, no doubt about it. My point is practice is good to get a feel for the game, the units, map, playing with another human, etc... But, it's very different from the actual league. Personally, i think you should go ahead and jump into the league. Just play as best as possible and you can always move up the rank. I should mention that the league is faster in speed, so, don't be surprised by that









Thanks, I think I'm going to skip it then.








Besides, it's not like I would be able to stick to Practice League forever, so it's probably better I skip it now than later when I have bad habits in my way of playing.


----------



## DoomDash

Nice Nada interview:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=160144

Both Boxer and Nada think Zerg > Terran. Interesting.

Quote:

-How do you see the race balance?
▲ It is pretty difficult to win playing as Zerg at the higher levels. I think the current balance is not that great (laugh). Patch1.2 is previewed, and if that goes through and the Zerg players from SC1 convert over, Zerg will overrun everything.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Dom_sufc

Idra sounds like one of the bevis and butthead duo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
Thanks, I think I'm going to skip it then.








Besides, it's not like I would be able to stick to Practice League forever, so it's probably better I skip it now than later when I have bad habits in my way of playing.

np









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Nice Nada interview:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=160144

Both Boxer and Nada think Zerg > Terran. Interesting.

Thanks.

Just did a little test in the editor:
- 10 maraudes + 11 marines vs. 8 roaches +11 zerglings + 9 banelings + 1 infestor. The plan was to use FG on them, then attack with zerglings first followed by banelings and then roaches, so, that FG does some damage, zerglings do some minor covering for banelings and roaches mop up the rest. Well, my microing wasn't great but I managed to take down all the marines with 4-5 marauders at 1/2 hp. Probably wasn't the best combo, since, marauders hard counter roaches, marines hard counter zerglings and then kiting would help against banelings but I was trying to re-create what most zerg players have to fight against vs. Terran.
- I did this same scenario using 3 medivacs and 5 extra marines compared to 3 more roaches, 3 more zerglings and 5 more banelings and they were wiped out. I think 1-2 marines and 4-5 marauders remained even with a great attack force and considering that banelings do great damage to marines. Remember that this doesn't take into account concussive shells, neither do it consider kiting, so, I would expect a T player to have more forces remain.
Conclusion: More banelings would have helped especially do to their splash. Possibly more infestor for FG although, since, they are ranged(marine/marauder), it'll help with dmg and give you time to regroup. Possibly more zerglings as well, to use as meat shields to give roaches more time to chew away at the T army. Thoughts?


----------



## DoomDash

Few infestors, lings, and banelings. FG army, send lings and banes in ( sending banes at marines ), kill all marines... tech switch to muta... gg.

Infestor is optional.. but makes the banelings easier to get marines.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9NMWFaNxM&

OH man that's too funny.

Only us geeks know what's up.


----------



## KaiZ51

Hey, sorry to bother again, but, I skipped practice league and already did 3 matches.

First one was normal, I lost, but I'm not complaining about that one. The second and third matches pissed me off, because the 2nd the guy rushed me with Protoss probes/Photon Cannons, and since I was still building barracks and upgrading me them, I couldn't get units to defend myself.

The third one was more or less the same, but the guy rushed me just with Zerglings...

I just wanted to know, how do I counter these rushes? IMO this is a pretty cheap way to play, but there's not really much one can do to avoid these guys...


----------



## thiagocosta85

Bad news for us honest players.
I'm not emailing anything to blizzard this time... Since they banned me for sending asm codes.

These cheeters are killing me, some one is offering MAP HACK software with CAMERA LOCK....

Which means, they LOCK CAMERA, look at the FOG, and the replay will NOT SHOW them looking at the FOG...

:'(

My oponent saved himself 4 times from my Mutalisk Mineral Harass in the same battle, with out having view of mutas, all his stalkers went right behind the minerals, when I wached the replay I was like... oO ...

ANd he didn't look at the fog once.
He had zero observers seeing my mutas (or any other unit)

Also, Starcraft II in LINUX will run with NO PROBLEM with NO WARDEN.
Beautiful :'( ...

Imma keep playing Dekaron for a while, SC2 has toomany hackers in too little time... The software is way too easy to hack... Even server sided items can be hacked with wep PRO,(may be subject to auto/immediate ban) ...

Its too weak.


----------



## Nevaziah

Hey Dash, you wanna do the Day9 challenge tonight? The challenge is in a team game (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) you HAVE to announce to EVERYONE what unit you are going for as soon as the game starts and you can only go that unit.

Example: I start as protoss and I say: Carrier. I can ONLY go carriers.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Hey Dash, you wanna do the Day9 challenge tonight? The challenge is in a team game (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) you HAVE to announce to EVERYONE what unit you are going for as soon as the game starts and you can only go that unit.

Say I start as protoss and I say: Carrier. I can ONLY go carriers.

That's last week's... this week it's FFA and you have to kill your opponents in alphabetical order.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
That's last week's... this week it's FFA and you have to kill your opponents in alphabetical order.

WOOOOPS! okay. Disregard my previous post then ( I woulda loved to do that!)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
WOOOOPS! okay. Disregard my previous post then ( I woulda loved to do that!)

Well it's still an awesome idea lol
My favorite was the sentry + sentry + battlecruisers. That was so ridiculous.


----------



## Nevaziah

guardian shields are cummulative right?


----------



## thiru

No, they just used so many forcefields they were able to take on 2 MM armies + stalker/zealot army with just 20 sentries. Was pretty funny to watch.

edit: ROFL I finally started listening to the State of game podcasts, and that thing about Artosis is just so funny.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Hey Dash, you wanna do the Day9 challenge tonight? The challenge is in a team game (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) you HAVE to announce to EVERYONE what unit you are going for as soon as the game starts and you can only go that unit.

Example: I start as protoss and I say: Carrier. I can ONLY go carriers.

Erm the show already aired.

You can still do tuesday though, it's losing to banshees or something.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
Hey, sorry to bother again, but, I skipped practice league and already did 3 matches.

First one was normal, I lost, but I'm not complaining about that one. The second and third matches pissed me off, because the 2nd the guy rushed me with Protoss probes/Photon Cannons, and since I was still building barracks and upgrading me them, I couldn't get units to defend myself.

The third one was more or less the same, but the guy rushed me just with Zerglings...

I just wanted to know, how do I counter these rushes? IMO this is a pretty cheap way to play, but there's not really much one can do to avoid these guys...

no bother, that's what this thread is for







Scouting is very important in this game. I've had a game where my opponent sneaked a probe into my base and even though I checked where it was, I didn't realize that he hid it behind a tree near my base and eventually, warped dts right into my base effectively taking me down. Point is that with scouting, you will be able to find out that they are building a pylon in your base or planning to 6 pool, thus, you'll be prepared for it. For 6 pool, if you get your workers to attack the zerglings, you can survive and start building defense, etc.... with his economy in ruins. As for the photo cannon one, you can destroy the pylon using a worker and then with marines rendering cannons useless. As you play more games, you'll get better and anticipate these and thus defend them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
That's last week's... this week it's FFA and you have to kill your opponents in alphabetical order.

That sounds fun, however, I'm B so, I get to die first?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
That sounds fun, however, I'm B so, I get to die first?









I'm B as well. Just tried few games and it's not as easy as it may seem.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Few infestors, lings, and banelings. FG army, send lings and banes in ( sending banes at marines ), kill all marines... tech switch to muta... gg.

Infestor is optional.. but makes the banelings easier to get marines.

hmm, I guess you will have to target the marines, but, will you be selecting one banelings for one marine, because, too many banelings means too overwhelming, so, do you select 1/3 for the right side, 1/3 for middle and 1/3 for left? As for FG, curious, for melee attackers, it just paralyzes them and does damage, likewise for ranged, but, ranged can still shoot? Reason I ask is because in one of the videos I've seen with Fruitdealer, he FG'd some marines but they were still firing, they just couldn't move making them an easier target for banelings









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm B as well. Just tried few games and it's not as easy as it may seem.









You mean to die or to live?


----------



## jrgull13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
no bother, that's what this thread is for







Scouting is very important in this game. I've had a game where my opponent sneaked a probe into my base and even though I checked where it was, I didn't realize that he hid it behind a tree near my base and eventually, warped dts right into my base effectively taking me down. Point is that with scouting, you will be able to find out that they are building a pylon in your base or planning to 6 pool, thus, you'll be prepared for it. For 6 pool, if you get your workers to attack the zerglings, you can survive and start building defense, etc.... with his economy in ruins. As for the photo cannon one, you can destroy the pylon using a worker and then with marines rendering cannons useless. As you play more games, you'll get better and anticipate these and thus defend them.

That sounds fun, however, I'm B so, I get to die first?









I'm a high gold in 3v3 randoms and in one game we got triple cannon cheesed.. Well i was the only one who didn't the other two guys did, i just rofl'd the whole time.. was rather funny to watch the replay too.

honestly i think people who win that way need to learn how to play the game, but hey, it happens and most of us learn from it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jrgull13*


I'm a high gold in 3v3 randoms and in one game we got triple cannon cheesed.. Well i was the only one who didn't the other two guys did, i just rofl'd the whole time.. was rather funny to watch the replay too.

honestly i think people who win that way need to learn how to play the game, but hey, it happens and most of us learn from it.


wow, lol, that sounds crazy! They could easily have one or two of them leave giving the last guy all their minerals and gas as well as control over their units and he could use those minerals to make more cannons







I agree, they should learn, however, it's also fun. I mean yes, 6 pool maybe be a cheesy move, but, it's also a risky move and it's part of the game. Likewise, I think building cannons in someone else's base or doing a bunker rush(never seen this myself) as well as proxy pylons are all part of the game. I just watched a game between InCa and Fruitdealer(first game) and fruitdealer as good of a player as he is 6-pooled InCa and got a win in. It's a part of the game that one has to learn to defend against by scouting early and making the necessary arrangements


----------



## Nevaziah

I just played a great game vs a terran. I went 2gate+robo into expand, and like clockwork, once he saw colossi, he boxed in and went for vikings, which gave me free range to take the gold expo AND a bunch of other expansions. I ONLY got supply blocked TWICE and i was at 120 food or so the first time







its a great feeling.

Day9 is right. If you go 2 gate robo and constantly pump probes AND constantly produce out of the 2 gates AND the robo bay, you CANT do anything else on one base, which is why you gotta expand OR just go for the win.
Here is the replay, for those who wish to see it. (im now number 1 in my division, yay!!!!)









1. i figure i shoulda gone into storm tech as soon as I saw him mass those vikings but i wanted to get my expos up and running first before switching tech.
2. Also, i dont FEEL I utilized the zealot legs upgrade enough once I completed it....
3. I didnt get my 3/3/3 upgrades








ANy tips? anything im missing?


----------



## Type-R Yo!

I having problem with the missions. It going back to mission one even if I finish it. Anyone having this kind of problem?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I just played a great game vs a terran. I went 2gate+robo into expand, and like clockwork, once he saw colossi, he boxed in and went for vikings, which gave me free range to take the gold expo AND a bunch of other expansions. I ONLY got supply blocked TWICE and i was at 120 food or so the first time







its a great feeling.

Day9 is right. If you go 2 gate robo and constantly pump probes AND constantly produce out of the 2 gates AND the robo bay, you CANT do anything else on one base, which is why you gotta expand OR just go for the win.
Here is the replay, for those who wish to see it. (im now number 1 in my division, yay!!!!)









1. i figure i shoulda gone into storm tech as soon as I saw him mass those vikings but i wanted to get my expos up and running first before switching tech.
2. Also, i dont FEEL I utilized the zealot legs upgrade enough once I completed it....
3. I didnt get my 3/3/3 upgrades








ANy tips? anything im missing?


You mean for the first time ever you've reached 120 food? This is a great way to play which I'm usually trying to force in my games. I had a game recently on Xel'Naga Caverns, where near the end of the game I was on 8 bases vs terran 2. He eventually just left after I expanded into his mined out natural (still had some gas though







) and typed out: "All your base are belong to us". BM, I know, but he should have left much earlier tbh and he used marauders which is also BM. Will watch the replay tomorrow as I'm just going to sleep.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You mean for the first time ever you've reached 120 food? This is a great way to play which I'm usually trying to force in my games. I had a game recently on Xel'Naga Caverns, where near the end of the game I was on 8 bases vs terran 2. He eventually just left after I expanded into his mined out natural (still had some gas though







) and typed out: "All your base are belong to us". BM, I know, but he should have left much earlier tbh and he used marauders which is also BM. Will watch the replay tomorrow as I'm just going to sleep.


LOL, no I mean its the first time ive reached the 100 food mark without being supply blocked. Usualy it happens around 38, then around 54 etc... but this time i was able to make pylons proactively


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I just played a great game vs a terran. I went 2gate+robo into expand, and like clockwork, once he saw colossi, he boxed in and went for vikings, which gave me free range to take the gold expo AND a bunch of other expansions. I ONLY got supply blocked TWICE and i was at 120 food or so the first time







its a great feeling.

Day9 is right. If you go 2 gate robo and constantly pump probes AND constantly produce out of the 2 gates AND the robo bay, you CANT do anything else on one base, which is why you gotta expand OR just go for the win.
Here is the replay, for those who wish to see it. (im now number 1 in my division, yay!!!!)









1. i figure i shoulda gone into storm tech as soon as I saw him mass those vikings but i wanted to get my expos up and running first before switching tech.
2. Also, i dont FEEL I utilized the zealot legs upgrade enough once I completed it....
3. I didnt get my 3/3/3 upgrades








ANy tips? anything im missing?


I'll take a look but it sounds like you already got your main ones









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


LOL, no I mean its the first time ive reached the 100 food mark without being supply blocked. Usualy it happens around 38, then around 54 etc... but this time i was able to make pylons proactively










Getting supply blocked is something that happens to me a lot and I hate it especially when you have an army and you need the units


----------



## DoomDash

I just watched 2 friends from another forum 1v1 ( silver ). I'm pretty sure some people are not meant to play this game. over 1:10 hour match and they werent done... i had to leave. So bad I could spend an entire day dedicated to giving them tips.


----------



## ThumperSD

^ Bronze and silver players are notorious for turtling


----------



## DoomDash

Oh it's beyond turtling. I mean, I can't even tell you how bad they are. No words for it. I'm not even trying to be an elitist dick .... even if I am







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just watched 2 friends from another forum 1v1 ( silver ). I'm pretty sure some people are not meant to play this game. over 1:10 hour match and they werent done... i had to leave. So bad I could spend an entire day dedicated to giving them tips.


Recommend that they play zerg. I mean technically you could turtle using some crawlers and hydras behind them, but, most zerg including myself don't turtle. That's one long game, my longest was 45 mins and was only because my main was down and I was trying to rebuild my entire base to strike back. Had he continued haunting me down in that game and I would have definitely lost, but, I sure showed his mothership+carriers+rays afterwards







It's likely that the game too long in your case due to them not wanting to attack eact other since, they would be risking their units, etc..... That's my guess at least without seeing the replay.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


^ Bronze and silver players are notorious for turtling



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Oh it's beyond turtling. I mean, I can't even tell you how bad they are. No words for it. I'm not even trying to be an elitist dick .... even if I am







.


lol, well, I was always wondering what the void ray spam is and since I haven't experienced it much, I found out tonight. 3 games STRAIGHT against Protoss and all they did was the following: I would scout at 11, realize that they are just building gateway and decide to move around the base, lol, it was funny seeing two probes chase my drone around but gave me an idea of what to expect. Then they would build gateway+photo cannons to block the entrance. Then they make 3 stargates and they are spamming void rays one after the other. I have to give them credit. Some of them actually build some cannons near their nexus, but, not enough against 15+ mutalisks. TBH, it wasn't what I was expecting when I started the games either. I was assuming the usual zealots+stalker+sentries combo that I always lose to so I was going mass slings+blings until I got an overseer and I got a changeling in and had a good look. In my last one, he had a couple by then and luckily I caught that one as I was building a spire and held off a decent number of void rays with spore crawlers+queen in time to get enough mutalisks to take down the rest although it was a constant back and forth battle to prevent charge up. Had he decided to continue the attack and charge up regardless of losing some void rays, he might have actually taken down my main





















So, yes, bronze(I think they were all bronze) and most silver are very notorious for turtling especially terrans. Disappointed that I didn't get any terrans though. I was hoping to try a combo of slings+blings to see the effect, but, maybe tommorrow









Edit: Forgot to mention that in the first game, I massed some slings+blings and attacked his gold exp. He had like 6 cannons in the base along with some pylons and an extractor. Suffice to say, the cannons were completely decimated with the blings and I used the rest to take down his extractor and pylons. I would have lost less units since I told them to attack around the cannons, but, the blings just stood around looking at each other







Was very interesting to see, can't wait until I get a terran opponent to try this against


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Recommend that they play zerg. I mean technically you could turtle using some crawlers and hydras behind them, but, most zerg including myself don't turtle. That's one long game, my longest was 45 mins and was only because my main was down and I was trying to rebuild my entire base to strike back. Had he continued haunting me down in that game and I would have definitely lost, but, I sure showed his mothership+carriers+rays afterwards







It's likely that the game too long in your case due to them not wanting to attack eact other since, they would be risking their units, etc..... That's my guess at least without seeing the replay.

lol, well, I was always wondering what the void ray spam is and since I haven't experienced it much, I found out tonight. 3 games STRAIGHT against Protoss and all they did was the following: I would scout at 11, realize that they are just building gateway and decide to move around the base, lol, it was funny seeing two probes chase my drone around but gave me an idea of what to expect. Then they would build gateway+photo cannons to block the entrance. Then they make 3 stargates and they are spamming void rays one after the other. I have to give them credit. Some of them actually build some cannons near their nexus, but, not enough against 15+ mutalisks. TBH, it wasn't what I was expecting when I started the games either. I was assuming the usual zealots+stalker+sentries combo that I always lose to so I was going mass slings+blings until I got an overseer and I got a changeling in and had a good look. In my last one, he had a couple by then and luckily I caught that one as I was building a spire and held off a decent number of void rays with spore crawlers+queen in time to get enough mutalisks to take down the rest although it was a constant back and forth battle to prevent charge up. Had he decided to continue the attack and charge up regardless of losing some void rays, he might have actually taken down my main





















So, yes, bronze(I think they were all bronze) and most silver are very notorious for turtling especially terrans. Disappointed that I didn't get any terrans though. I was hoping to try a combo of slings+blings to see the effect, but, maybe tommorrow










I would never recommend Zerg or Terran to anyone in Silver/Bronze. Only Protoss.


----------



## ThumperSD

^ why not terran? pretty simple to use


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I would never recommend Zerg or Terran to anyone in Silver/Bronze. Only Protoss.


TBH, it's not as bad as anyone makes it sound. Yes, terran and protoss are less macro intensive and in most games I play, I miss injections or forget to spread creep but I usually keep watch on my opponent's base and try to anticipate what he's going to do so while I might have missed possible larvae, I wasn't as much in need for it at that time. It's also true that tier 1-1.5 protoss+terran units hard counter zerg units(zerglings= zealot or marine; roach= marauder+stalker, this doesn't include sentries with FF or GS either), however, playing zerg means that they are forced to make tough choices, scout, etc.... in order to survive any attacks. They can't just block ramp, put a bunker or two with tanks and do whatever they want in the game(massing usually). Although, if I was recommending zerg to anyone, I would tell them to try it against a very easy AI so that they know about the units and abilities as well as give them some rudimentary instructors(OL at 11 with extractor trick, scout at 10, pool at 14, exp 16 or so, sling+bling for terran MMM, etc....)









Edit: Just realized that you said only protoss, curious as well, why not? If they played through campaign, they are very familiar with terrran, more so than protoss, but, I guess it's the whole zealots>marines and stalker=marauder(?) case


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


TBH, it's not as bad as anyone makes it sound. Yes, terran and protoss are less macro intensive and in most games I play, I miss injections or forget to spread creep but I usually keep watch on my opponent's base and try to anticipate what he's going to do so while I might have missed possible larvae, I wasn't as much in need for it at that time. It's also true that tier 1-1.5 protoss+terran units hard counter zerg units(zerglings= zealot or marine; roach= marauder+stalker, this doesn't include sentries with FF or GS either), however, playing zerg means that they are forced to make tough choices, scout, etc.... in order to survive any attacks. They can't just block ramp, put a bunker or two with tanks and do whatever they want in the game(massing usually). Although, if I was recommending zerg to anyone, I would tell them to try it against a very easy AI so that they know about the units and abilities as well as give them some rudimentary instructors(OL at 11 with extractor trick, scout at 10, pool at 14, exp 16 or so, sling+bling for terran MMM, etc....)









Edit: Just realized that you said only protoss, curious as well, why not? If they played through campaign, they are very familiar with terrran, more so than protoss, but, I guess it's the whole zealots>marines and stalker=marauder(?) case










I think campaign makes players worse lol. No real understanding of the game from that. You know what units are, and that's it. Even so, SP also has Protoss missions.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


^ why not terran? pretty simple to use


Pretty simple to use, simply. Very very bad against anybody who knows how to beat bio pretty much. It's much easier to use any tier Protoss unit effectively compared to any tier Terran unit. I do think bio is easy to use until a certain point though. Just much easier to 4 gate or 3 gate robo, build some immortals, colossus, and fly around observers for scouting.

Also, warp gates encourge players not to queue. Building buildings is effortless and requires no additional micro or SCV managing, and building placement is far less important. Much easier to control the map with pylons to warp in units, vs newbie terran players have awful reinforcement waves.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Oh it's beyond turtling. I mean, I can't even tell you how bad they are. No words for it. I'm not even trying to be an elitist dick .... even if I am







.


I wouldn't call it turtling, they just never move out/take expansions.

:S

Not really hard to bust down their 1 base defense.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally passed you Cory... but I'm sure you have a nice bonus pool saved up.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Finally passed you Cory... but I'm sure you have a nice bonus pool saved up.

I had a terrible day yesterday..I went 3-16. I almost broke some..stuff lol. I had 1400 points at two different times, but losses hurt







.

My 2v2 R right now says I'm 4th in North America(1640 points), but it will drop in a day or so. I was up to 1670 before the losses started.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
My 2v2 R right now says I'm 4th in North America, but it will drop in a day or so.

Damn!
Says your 2v2 is #4 in NA and #13 in the World!
Nice!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

nice on the rankings

don't you just love playing really crappy then right after that loose to cheese like you're back in silver then the next 6 games you make stupid basic mistakes, then you can't do anything right and then it's the end of the night and you don't even win 1 game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I had a terrible day yesterday..I went 3-16. I almost broke some..stuff lol. I had 1400 points at two different times, but losses hurt








.

My 2v2 R right now says I'm 4th in North America, but it will drop in a day or so.

I've having a pretty easy time in ladder recently. IDK what it is.... but I've gone up like 2% on my w/l ratio. Also beating players way higher than me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Finally passed you Cory... but I'm sure you have a nice bonus pool saved up.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I had a terrible day yesterday..I went 3-16. I almost broke some..stuff lol. I had 1400 points at two different times, but losses hurt







.

My 2v2 R right now says I'm 4th in North America, but it will drop in a day or so.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Damn!
Says your 2v2 is #4 in NA and #13 in the World!
Nice!

Nice, 1400, I'm still sitting at 200, but, again 19 games in a day!!!!! I'm lucky to get in 5 or so and depending on who I'm up against, losing a couple takes me down a notch, however, I have >800 bonus pool saved up, so, if I win some games, I can move up rather quickly especially if my opponent is favored(haven't had this in sometime now). Nice record as well, 4 in NA and 13 in the World for 2vs2, although, 1vs1 is usually the one taken into account for tournes and such









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
nice on the rankings

don't you just love playing really crappy then right after that loose to cheese like you're back in silver then the next 6 games you make stupid basic mistakes, then you can't do anything right and then it's the end of the night and you don't even win 1 game

Well, personally, I just hate those especially when you forget to build a spore colony while teching up and get taken down by a banshee









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've having a pretty easy time in ladder recently. IDK what it is.... but I've gone up like 2% on my w/l ratio. Also beating players way higher than me.

Maybe players are getting worse?







You could also just be improving


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Maybe players are getting worse?







You could also just be improving









Everybody is just playing which makes the entire communities points go higher. I don't know why but I've always had much less points than my skill level I think.

In fact Cory said it best. After we played some games he pretty much said "How the he'll are you only 800 points?" in disbelief







. That was a long time ago but he was way higher than me at the time and I don't think I lost any of our games.

Anyway, I'm still waiting on Cory to challenge me and avenge himself ( Let's do this! ).

Also lately I've been getting an itch to play some Z vs high rated Protoss to see how I do.

*EDIT*

Also, I've never used Reapers since release, never proxied, or anything like that. I've always played incredibly focused around a strong economy and less gimmicks. Maybe that's why I think I'm pretty well rounded for my point #. I also make up my own builds and just run what I think works best for me over stealing from pros.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Everybody is just playing which makes the entire communities points go higher. I don't know why but I've always had much less points than my skill level I think.

That's true, I just find it odd that people are fitting in 19 games or so while I can barely get in 5. It's probably partially due to my net. Also, I started MP end of Sept, most started since the game came out skipping SP or quickly playing through it, but, I took my time, so, it only makes sense that they would have 1000 while I'm still 200 or so with an 800+ bonus pool







As for the skill level, well, you definitely play well, especially with Terran since they are your main, but, TBH, I can't exactly comment on how well. I've only ever played a couple of 1vs1 against you and while you were creaming me in the first couple of matches, I've improved upon my strategy and everytime we played afterwards, I was able to get some surprises in like how I took down your main lair in our last ZvsZ game using a nydus worm. I'm pretty confident that you weren't expecting that even though it was right next to your drones







I also believe that my skill level is higher than where I am but it's because I make bad mistakes like forget spore colonies and get taken out by a single banshee























Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
In fact Cory said it best. After we played some games he pretty much said "How the he'll are you only 800 points?" in disbelief







. That was a long time ago but he was way higher than me at the time and I don't think I lost any of our games.

Anyway, I'm still waiting on Cory to challenge me and avenge himself ( Let's do this! ).

I'm also interested in challenging you again and avenging my losses, so, prepare yourself









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Also lately I've been getting an itch to play some Z vs high rated Protoss to see how I do.

*EDIT*

Also, I've never used Reapers since release, never proxied, or anything like that. I've always played incredibly focused around a strong economy and less gimmicks. Maybe that's why I think I'm pretty well rounded for my point #. I also make up my own builds and just run what I think works best for me over stealing from pros.

hehehe, sounds just like me. I've always wanted to try a 6 pool but never did and doubt I ever will, just sounds too easy of a win and a risky move as well. I try to get a strong economy early on and end up gimping my army which is probably the reason that I lose to MMM balls and zealot+stalker+sentry combo, but, I'm working on the balance. I don't have a specific build that I follow, infact, I haven't read up on any builds other than what was written in this thread, so, I've developed my own way of building up my base and I vary it up between game such as maybe gas at 15 or gas at 17, maybe some roaches or hydras, but, I might pressure my opponent with zerglings early on especially if my scouting reveals that I'll have some zerglings by the time they are building their first zealot. I also haven't watched many replays, since, for one, on my net they take forever to load in even 720p. I think I watched one or two because someone mentioned that they were interesting but I wasn't paying much attention to the build, more for the action and the interesting commentary. I do have to admit that I did see the overload+baneling drop from Fruitdealer in the highlights video that TL did so I might try that especially against siege tanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
That's true, I just find it odd that people are fitting in 19 games or so while I can barely get in 5. It's probably partially due to my net. Also, I started MP end of Sept, most started since the game came out skipping SP or quickly playing through it, but, I took my time, so, it only makes sense that they would have 1000 while I'm still 200 or so with an 800+ bonus pool







As for the skill level, well, you definitely play well, especially with Terran since they are your main, but, TBH, I can't exactly comment on how well. I've only ever played a couple of 1vs1 against you and while you were creaming me in the first couple of matches, I've improved upon my strategy and everytime we played afterwards, I was able to get some surprises in like how I took down your main lair in our last ZvsZ game using a nydus worm. I'm pretty confident that you weren't expecting that even though it was right next to your drones







I also believe that my skill level is higher than where I am but it's because I make bad mistakes like forget spore colonies and get taken out by a single banshee























I'm also interested in challenging you again and avenging my losses, so, prepare yourself









hehehe, sounds just like me. I've always wanted to try a 6 pool but never did and doubt I ever will, just sounds too easy of a win and a risky move as well. I try to get a strong economy early on and end up gimping my army which is probably the reason that I lose to MMM balls and zealot+stalker+sentry combo, but, I'm working on the balance. I don't have a specific build that I follow, infact, I haven't read up on any builds other than what was written in this thread, so, I've developed my own way of building up my base and I vary it up between game such as maybe gas at 15 or gas at 17, maybe some roaches or hydras, but, I might pressure my opponent with zerglings early on especially if my scouting reveals that I'll have some zerglings by the time they are building their first zealot. I also haven't watched many replays, since, for one, on my net they take forever to load in even 720p. I think I watched one or two because someone mentioned that they were interesting but I wasn't paying much attention to the build, more for the action and the interesting commentary. I do have to admit that I did see the overload+baneling drop from Fruitdealer in the highlights video that TL did so I might try that especially against siege tanks









I'm gonna be honest that you probably have quite a ways before you'll beat me, at least with Terran. The game you took out my hatch you weren't even remotely close to beating me.. I was taking out everything you had and saving my base at the same time ( lost hatch or not ). The difference between leagues is a lot more than I think you understand at the moment.

Did we play a PvZ recently though? Because if we did ( on Blistering ), that was actually your closest to beating me. I have literally 10 Protoss 1v1's in all of SCII though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm gonna be honest that you probably have quite a ways before you'll beat me, at least with Terran. The game you took out my hatch you weren't even remotely close to beating me.. I was taking out everything you had and saving my base at the same time ( lost hatch or not ). The difference between leagues is a lot more than I think you understand at the moment.

Did we play a PvZ recently though? Because if we did ( on Blistering ), that was actually your closest to beating me. I have literally 10 Protoss 1v1's in all of SCII though.

I never did say I beat you in that game, but, prior to that game, I haven't been able to lay as much as a single hit on any components of your base regardless of whether you were T, P or Z. Remember that one game(ZvsZ) where you just massed roaches+hydras till 200 while my base didn't have much units and completely wiped me out, well, compare that game to our last Z game and you'll see what I mean. I was able to at least destroy a lair in the last game we played, so, I'm making progress. I probably won't beat you anytime soon, since, I am taking my time playing the game unlike you guys who are flying through, but, I will eventually down the road







I also enjoy the challenge







As for the difference in leagues, well, it all comes down to practice in the end. As the level increases, you need to macro and micro better to win the game and that comes with experience. I've only played so many games(50 now I think) in comparison to some people's hundreds of games, not including beta or SC games. Obviously, there are other factors, such as scouting, knowing counters, etc.... but, I believe that practice makes perfect and learning from your mistakes also helps. There is a reason that pros play 10 hours a day, although TBH, I would rather not play that long


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm gonna be honest that you probably have quite a ways before you'll beat me, at least with Terran. The game you took out my hatch you weren't even remotely close to beating me.. I was taking out everything you had and saving my base at the same time ( lost hatch or not ). The difference between leagues is a lot more than I think you understand at the moment.

Did we play a PvZ recently though? Because if we did ( on Blistering ), that was actually your closest to beating me. I have literally 10 Protoss 1v1's in all of SCII though.

I never did say I beat you in that game, but, prior to that game, I haven't been able to lay as much as a single hit on any components of your base regardless of whether you were T, P or Z. Remember that one game(ZvsZ) where you just massed roaches+hydras till 200 while my base didn't have much units and completely wiped me out, well, compare that game to our last Z game and you'll see what I mean. I was able to at least destroy a lair in the last game we played, so, I'm making progress. I probably won't beat you anytime soon, since, I am taking my time playing the game unlike you guys who are flying through, but, I will eventually down the road








I also enjoy the challenge







As for the difference in leagues, well, it all comes down to practice in the end. As the level increases, you need to macro and micro better to win the game and that comes with experience. I've only played so many games(50 now I think) in comparison to some people's hundreds of games, not including beta or SC games. Obviously, there are other factors, such as scouting, knowing counters, etc.... but, I believe that practice makes perfect and learning from your mistakes also helps. There is a reason that pros play 10 hours a day, although TBH, I would rather not play that long








As for that PvsZ game you mentioned, don't think it was me, since, our last one was on the Shakuras map where you boxed me in early on with photo cannons


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I never did say I beat you in that game, but, prior to that game, I haven't been able to lay as much as a single hit on any components of your base regardless of whether you were T, P or Z. Remember that one game(ZvsZ) where you just massed roaches+hydras till 200 while my base didn't have much units and completely wiped me out, well, compare that game to our last Z game and you'll see what I mean. I was able to at least destroy a lair in the last game we played, so, I'm making progress. I probably won't beat you anytime soon, since, I am taking my time playing the game unlike you guys who are flying through, but, I will eventually down the road







I also enjoy the challenge







As for the difference in leagues, well, it all comes down to practice in the end. As the level increases, you need to macro and micro better to win the game and that comes with experience. I've only played so many games(50 now I think) in comparison to some people's hundreds of games, not including beta or SC games. Obviously, there are other factors, such as scouting, knowing counters, etc.... but, I believe that practice makes perfect and learning from your mistakes also helps. There is a reason that pros play 10 hours a day, although TBH, I would rather not play that long








As for that PvsZ game you mentioned, don't think it was me, since, our last one was on the Shakuras map where you boxed me in early on with photo cannons









Hmm who was that against then.. maybe Neva.

Well, I think you could beat me if you put the effort in to do so. I will never say anything as stupid as you'll never beat me. Just takes practice like you said. You have a great attitude about the game and I like that. I'm also here to help you guys with practice too.

I need chat channels too so I can challenge high level teamliquid players and get myself better. Damn blizzard.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Hmm who was that against then.. maybe Neva.

Well, I think you could beat me if you put the effort in to do so. I will never say anything as stupid as you'll never beat me. Just takes practice like you said. You have a great attitude about the game and I like that. I'm also here to help you guys with practice too.

I need chat channels too so I can challenge high level teamliquid players and get myself better. Damn blizzard.

I'll play right now?







Just passed you back. Accidentally started 1v1 league as random. Still won with zerg anyways







.


----------



## DoomDash

Nice. I'm actually about to go to bed. I'll try and catch up soon though. I should be on tonight.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Nice. I'm actually about to go to bed. I'll try and catch up soon though. I should be on tonight.

perfect, wel`ll get some games going


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Hmm who was that against then.. maybe Neva.

Well, I think you could beat me if you put the effort in to do so. I will never say anything as stupid as you'll never beat me. Just takes practice like you said. You have a great attitude about the game and I like that. I'm also here to help you guys with practice too.

I need chat channels too so I can challenge high level teamliquid players and get myself better. Damn blizzard.

Well, why not have a great attitude about the game? The game is great, it has a great editor even just to fool around with different units and create scenarios. Most opponents other than those who spam void rays are unique, although, I hate mirror matches(ZvsZ) and the way that the league is set up, it makes you work to get promoted







Plus, the replays and commentary are interesting to watch(the ones i've watched at least).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I'll play right now?







Just passed you back. Accidentally started 1v1 league as random. Still won with zerg anyways







.

hmm, I was always under the impression that you played terran as well, maybe not?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

hmm, I was always under the impression that you played terran as well, maybe not?









He is a dirty Protoss player.

Sometimes I think about quitting / selling my computer. I feel like I should put more effort towards making my life better financially. If you say "Why not do both?", that's because there is no half way for me. I literally either do or don't.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
He is a dirty Protoss player.

Why would you say that?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sometimes I think about quitting / selling my computer. I feel like I should put more effort towards making my life better financially. If you say "Why not do both?", that's because there is no half way for me. I literally either do or don't.

TBH, I agree with the make my life better financially. There is always a halfway point. I don't know your situation to be able to comment in terms of your finances, etc.... but, the general recommendation I would be able to give is to get a full time job if you don't have one during the day 9-5 and play SC2 and do whatever you want to do when you get home making sure to sleep early to maintain your health as well. Of course, make sure you get the job in your field or career of choice, so, that you aren't stuck with minimum wage and be careful with how you spend your money, basically save it incase you ever need it for an emergency. This is the perfect balance since you get the best of both worlds


----------



## thiru

Apparently Day9's going to do an Encore episode of monday's funday. Who's up for some epic[ally painful] 3v3/4v4s tonight


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Apparently Day9's going to do an Encore episode of monday's funday. Who's up for some epic[ally painful] 3v3/4v4s tonight









Me, me, although, maybe around 10 or so to make sure that my net is working and I don't get disconnected


----------



## Nevaziah

Is it the same as the unit anouncement? if so im in!!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, well, I was always wondering what the void ray spam is and since I haven't experienced it much, I found out tonight. 3 games STRAIGHT against Protoss and all they did was the following: I would scout at 11, realize that they are just building gateway and decide to move around the base, lol, it was funny seeing two probes chase my drone around but gave me an idea of what to expect. Then they would build gateway+photo cannons to block the entrance.

Void ray sucks. I have a ton of losses from void ray spam. The P player just walls in on one base and build about 5 void rays and then munches everything. VRs make the zerg buildings collapse like they're made of cardboard. The mobility of the VRs is especially annoying. They can hit and run and probe for soft spots like my mutas do, but they're way more powerful than mutas. P can get a big VR ball up and running before I can even come close to having enough firepower to destroy the P base. I'd like to see a speed nerf for VR. Make them a little clumsy and slow.


----------



## thiru

Void rays are clumsy and slow... They're only quick if you let them get fleet beacon and research flux vanes.
As soon as you see a protoss wall in or make a forge/cannons or fast double gas, prepare for void rays. Don't try to base race against void rays, you'll lose every time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Void ray sucks. I have a ton of losses from void ray spam. The P player just walls in on one base and build about 5 void rays and then munches everything. VRs make the zerg buildings collapse like they're made of cardboard. The mobility of the VRs is especially annoying. They can hit and run and probe for soft spots like my mutas do, but they're way more powerful than mutas. P can get a big VR ball up and running before I can even come close to having enough firepower to destroy the P base. I'd like to see a speed nerf for VR. Make them a little clumsy and slow.

Actually, mutalisks are the perfect counter to void rays, although, not a one on one obviously because they won't be able to take a ray down before it fully charges. Also, I think their speed is just fine since according to thiru below, you have to research it. I think the best thing is to still scout instead of guessing at a void ray rush. What if instead, they went for carriers with mothership. Your mutalisks wouldn't stand a chance especially if they vortex them away while they tear apart your base









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Void rays are clumsy and slow... They're only quick if you let them get fleet beacon and research flux vanes.
As soon as you see a protoss wall in or make a forge/cannons or fast double gas, prepare for void rays. Don't try to base race against void rays, you'll lose every time.

Bad question, base race? Do you mean to try to take more bases than them or am I missing something here? I still think the best thing against a protoss wall in is to move an overload or use a changeling to see what they are up to. It could be that they are massing stalkers and plan to transport them to your base or possibly colossus


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
LOL, no I mean its the first time ive reached the 100 food mark without being supply blocked. Usualy it happens around 38, then around 54 etc... but this time i was able to make pylons proactively









Alright, I watched the replay and you played ok. If you really want an advice you should post a replay where you lose







From the things I noticed though: I'm not sure why you make zealot before cybernetics core, you get your second gas really late, you get your robo really, really late and you had way too many stalkers, which, if you didn't, you would have probably won after the first battle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Everybody is just playing which makes the entire communities points go higher. I don't know why but I've always had much less points than my skill level I think.

In fact Cory said it best. After we played some games he pretty much said "How the he'll are you only 800 points?" in disbelief







. That was a long time ago but he was way higher than me at the time and I don't think I lost any of our games.

Anyway, I'm still waiting on Cory to challenge me and avenge himself ( Let's do this! ).

Also lately I've been getting an itch to play some Z vs high rated Protoss to see how I do.

I look forward to playing with you both PvT and PvZ. I think I'll have some time to log on US server this week. At the moment though one of my raid drives is failing... I don't recommend seagate to anyone looking for reliability, it's going to be their 3rd hdd that failed, out of 5 I've owned.


----------



## KaiZ51

This game's so addicting... I haven't won a single game (out of 8 games) since I skipped Practice League, but damn, I can't stop playing!










I don't care if I lose, I'll probably improve with time, but it's just so addicting... I want MOAR!!!11!111!!!!1

On the negative side though... I can't play for ****! I'm probably one of the noobiest guys to ever touch StarCraft, as pretty much anyone beats me in a match.


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

how would u counter voidrays with terran?


----------



## thiru

Marines.

We're trying out last week's funday monday. Tried zealot/hydra/medivac (LOL) and then zealot/hydra/raven and we got raped twice in a row by banelings xD


----------



## EmMure

big fan,sorry i went offline randomly the other night my internet droped mid game = (


----------



## Phaedrus2129

This is my first league game, third multiplayer game ever. Practice league, but whatever. 
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...t-oasis#rd:dna

Mass marine&marauder, usually works pretty well. He basically stays bottled up while I get an early expand to gold and build up a big infantry army. I have a couple of bobbles; I try a reaper sneak, but because this is the practice map there's hardly anyplace for reapers to jump up so they get stomped. A failed attack early on, etc.

In the end I sent in ~40 marines and ~20 marauders, smash through the front wall of cannon, micro down the pylons for the rest, and he calls gg. I had vikings building up in case the attack failed, to drop in the middle of his base and wreck what little economy he had.

Please critique. I'm a noob, only reason I've done as well as I have is because I watched Day9 quite a bit before jumping in.


----------



## r34p3rex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Void ray sucks. I have a ton of losses from void ray spam. The P player just walls in on one base and build about 5 void rays and then munches everything. VRs make the zerg buildings collapse like they're made of cardboard. The mobility of the VRs is especially annoying. They can hit and run and probe for soft spots like my mutas do, but they're way more powerful than mutas. P can get a big VR ball up and running before I can even come close to having enough firepower to destroy the P base. I'd like to see a speed nerf for VR. Make them a little clumsy and slow.


Scout them early, hydras/mutas, a bit of micro (don't let them charge up on one muta/hydra, move it away) = lots of dead void rays


----------



## burwij

Anyone else playing in the MSI EG tournament?

Just won my round 2 match, and if I win round 3, I'll be playing HuK in round 4.

lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Anyone else playing in the MSI EG tournament?

Just won my round 2 match, and if I win round 3, I'll be playing HuK in round 4.

lol.


Lol, do you play as random in tournaments as well? Gl to you. If I was about to play HuK I'd practice my build orders for like 10 hours a day.

Btw where can I find some info about upcoming tournaments which are going on, where to register and stuff. I'd like to take part in some, even just for lulz.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, do you play as random in tournaments as well? Gl to you. If I was about to play HuK I'd practice my build orders for like 10 hours a day.

Btw where can I find some info about upcoming tournaments which are going on, where to register and stuff. I'd like to take part in some, even just for lulz.


Teamliquid.


----------



## Enfluenza

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KaiZ51*


This game's so addicting... I haven't won a single game (out of 8 games) since I skipped Practice League, but damn, I can't stop playing!









I don't care if I lose, I'll probably improve with time, but it's just so addicting... I want MOAR!!!11!111!!!!1

On the negative side though... I can't play for ****! I'm probably one of the noobiest guys to ever touch StarCraft, as pretty much anyone beats me in a match.










oh trust me, your not as bad as me!
i cant even win against the computer on medium difficulty!

also, my void ray rushes need more stratagy. i always attack from the back and CHARGED MAH LAZOR at the the command center first. is that wise? or should i go for the barracks first?

i always loose anyway








should i use more zealots and stalkers with ~3 vrays for air support?
btw i like protoss!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


big fan,sorry i went offline randomly the other night my internet droped mid game = (


oh, np







Don't mind it, although, it was rather odd that you randomly disappeared









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


This is my first league game, third multiplayer game ever. Practice league, but whatever. 
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...t-oasis#rd:dna

Mass marine&marauder, usually works pretty well. He basically stays bottled up while I get an early expand to gold and build up a big infantry army. I have a couple of bobbles; I try a reaper sneak, but because this is the practice map there's hardly anyplace for reapers to jump up so they get stomped. A failed attack early on, etc.

In the end I sent in ~40 marines and ~20 marauders, smash through the front wall of cannon, micro down the pylons for the rest, and he calls gg. I had vikings building up in case the attack failed, to drop in the middle of his base and wreck what little economy he had.

Please critique. I'm a noob, only reason I've done as well as I have is because I watched Day9 quite a bit before jumping in.


I haven't looked at it yet, but, MMM balls are pretty strong and usually are the main reason that I've lost my games against Terran







I'll comment once I get a chance to watch it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *r34p3rex*


Scout them early, hydras/mutas, a bit of micro (don't let them charge up on one muta/hydra, move it away) = lots of dead void rays










I think while hydras have a higher dps than mutalisks, they can't outrun void rays even on creep, but, not sure, will need to test this out. Basically, if you play zerg, this is the perfect counter for void rays(mutalisks).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Anyone else playing in the MSI EG tournament?

Just won my round 2 match, and if I win round 3, I'll be playing HuK in round 4.

lol.


not really, no, but, that sounds rather interesting. I would love to play against someone like HuK just for the purpose of playing against a pro player. If you do get to play against him, I suggest you post those replays









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Teamliquid.


Thanks, +REP. Should be fun to join a tourney









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Enfluenza*


oh trust me, your not as bad as me!
i cant even win against the computer on medium difficulty!

also, my void ray rushes need more stratagy. i always attack from the back and CHARGED MAH LAZOR at the the command center first. is that wise? or should i go for the barracks first?

i always loose anyway








should i use more zealots and stalkers with ~3 vrays for air support?
btw i like protoss!


I don't play protoss but I can give you the following tips which apply even to other races:
- Try not to get supply blocked
- Keep making probes
- Keep scouting
- Consider counters and build them when you find what units your opponent is building
- Try to constantly harass your opponent
- Make a strong economy by trying to saturate your mineral line as well as your gas
- Expand early, not sure when for protoss, zerg is 14 or so
- Try to expand if your opponent is turtling, since, this will allow for more minerals and gas which you could use to make units and upgrade weapons, armor, etc....
- Work on your micro skills, since, everyone needs to work on them. Example is stalker has higher range than roach, so, you can get a hit in and then move back or blink, get another, etc.... basically kiting. 
- Also learn the different abilities and think about their various uses: A sentry's forcefield can help divide an army in half making it easier to take them on and guardian shield reduces damage. Likewise, storm can help with MMM balls and against large groups of opponents as well as feedback is good against enemies with energy such as bc, corruptors, etc....
- Watch some replays of pros to see their build and how they play.
Alternatively, you could post some replays for us to look at and give some recommdations.

These apply to all the different races, expect for the ability one since I used specific protoss ones. Hope it helps









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Marines.

We're trying out last week's funday monday. Tried zealot/hydra/medivac (LOL) and then zealot/hydra/raven and we got raped twice in a row by banelings xD


Marines hard counter void rays, however, once they charge up, those marines are history unless you stim away and then reattack once they un-charge.

Just had a couple of 4 vs 4 with thiru/nevaziah/epona trying out last weeks's funday monday day9 idea. We won the first two easily with mutalisks/helions/stalkers/banenlings, but, the last two, we decided to go for casters, so, one game was infestor/sentry/high templar with marines and we got wiped out by thors, brood lords, hydras and roaches


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KaiZ51*


This game's so addicting... I haven't won a single game (out of 8 games) since I skipped Practice League, but damn, I can't stop playing!









I don't care if I lose, I'll probably improve with time, but it's just so addicting... I want MOAR!!!11!111!!!!1

On the negative side though... I can't play for ****! I'm probably one of the noobiest guys to ever touch StarCraft, as pretty much anyone beats me in a match.











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


This is my first league game, third multiplayer game ever. Practice league, but whatever. 
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8...t-oasis#rd:dna

Mass marine&marauder, usually works pretty well. He basically stays bottled up while I get an early expand to gold and build up a big infantry army. I have a couple of bobbles; I try a reaper sneak, but because this is the practice map there's hardly anyplace for reapers to jump up so they get stomped. A failed attack early on, etc.

In the end I sent in ~40 marines and ~20 marauders, smash through the front wall of cannon, micro down the pylons for the rest, and he calls gg. I had vikings building up in case the attack failed, to drop in the middle of his base and wreck what little economy he had.

Please critique. I'm a noob, only reason I've done as well as I have is because I watched Day9 quite a bit before jumping in.


To all the new people out there, google day9 and watch his "newbie tuesdays" episodes. You can watch the other ones too, they're more advanced gameplay analysis but sometimes the subject is for everyone (like the macro style for protoss episode), and in every episode he always has a few comments that newbs can use.

After that you can watch other introductory videos on youtube, or streams (preferably people who comment their actions like Trump for terran or BigT for protoss, or Princezixor for zerg) if you really don't feel ready for ladder.
I would still advise going for ladder even if you don't feel ready.

Practice league is terrible because the game speed is normal instead of faster and there are rocks blocking every pathway, which alters the gameplay severely. Even computers on very hard/insane are better than practice league IMO. If you can get practice partners (someone better preferably), it's even better. I can do this if you want but I only play protoss.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, do you play as random in tournaments as well? Gl to you. If I was about to play HuK I'd practice my build orders for like 10 hours a day.

Btw where can I find some info about upcoming tournaments which are going on, where to register and stuff. I'd like to take part in some, even just for lulz.


As I already said, TL, but I know that ESL Europe have loads of cups (bronze/silvergold/plat cups every day, no rewards though) as well as more serious cups almost every day of the week (KOTH on one day, late night cup on another, Go4SC2 cup on Wednesday and Sunday which actually have rewards).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Enfluenza*


oh trust me, your not as bad as me!
i cant even win against the computer on medium difficulty!

also, my void ray rushes need more stratagy. i always attack from the back and CHARGED MAH LAZOR at the the command center first. is that wise? or should i go for the barracks first?

i always loose anyway








should i use more zealots and stalkers with ~3 vrays for air support?
btw i like protoss!


Go with warpgate units+robotics units against all races, they're much stronger. Using void rays requires luck, no scouting from the other team and micro. Or pure warpgate but that's dangerous if the game lasts too long. Also read the first part of this post.

If people in bronze or silver want a protoss to practice against/with, PM me. It'd be much easier if you have a mic. I can offer a bit of advice for other races too.

edit: I play on both US and EU servers.


----------



## EmMure

forfeited my match tonight after the first game he ended the game in less then 15mins destoryeed me


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


forfeited my match tonight after the first game he ended the game in less then 15mins destoryeed me


Are you playing in a tournament?


----------



## EmMure

i was playing in the msi series


----------



## thiru

Are you diamond or bronze? I remember there being one of each from OCN in the MSI tournament lol.


----------



## EmMure

bronze lol


----------



## xHassassin

Is there anyway to see player stats outside of SCII? Like on the BNET site or something?


----------



## burwij

http://sc2ranks.com/ is one of the better ones, though it can be slow at times. Supposedly you can make a custom list to keep track of all of your friends, but I haven't tried that yet.


----------



## ReaperMan

if you're ever doing a 2v2 against toss/terran. Try mass ravens. They work wonders. I had seeker missiles and increased duration for turrets researched. Made a mass of ravens, and with all the left over minerals made tons of marines. Killing expansions and workers is easy. turrets down, and a seeker missile to one of the workers, and in most cases its hard to separate the worker that's getting hit. [its also hard to notice the missile with all the turrets there]. PDD's are amazing against the toss, and mass missiles demolish seige tanks an the bio ball.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I've just about had it with zerg. Half of bronze league is just a bunch of people ramming void rays up my zerg ass. It works every time unless the P player makes a mistake. Blizzard needs to fix this. As things are now bronze league might as well be called "Void Ray League."


----------



## DoomDash

I think void rays will be nerfed next patch, don't worry ( based upon a blizz post and the protoss win %'s in lower leagues ).


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


if you're ever doing a 2v2 against toss/terran. Try mass ravens. They work wonders. I had seeker missiles and increased duration for turrets researched. Made a mass of ravens, and with all the left over minerals made tons of marines. Killing expansions and workers is easy. turrets down, and a seeker missile to one of the workers, and in most cases its hard to separate the worker that's getting hit. [its also hard to notice the missile with all the turrets there]. PDD's are amazing against the toss, and mass missiles demolish seige tanks an the bio ball.


interesting


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*   I've just about had it with zerg. Half of bronze league is just a bunch of people ramming void rays up my zerg ass. It works every time unless the P player makes a mistake. Blizzard needs to fix this. As things are now bronze league might as well be called "Void Ray League."  
Quite easy to deal with though, scout the ramp, sac an overlord at specific times, then build more queens while macro on two bases. Go hive and if they still do void rays, hydras attack! If they go void rays it means they don't have enough to make colossus, or HT (esp on one base). If you macro well your mass hydras will rape gate units.

Do what this zerg did to scout:

  
 You Tube  



 

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *burwij*   http://sc2ranks.com/ is one of the better ones, though it can be slow at times. Supposedly you can make a custom list to keep track of all of your friends, but I haven't tried that yet.  
It's interesting that korean players have lower winning percentage than US players.


----------



## durch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://sc2ranks.com/ is one of the better ones, though it can be slow at times. Supposedly you can make a custom list to keep track of all of your friends, but I haven't tried that yet.


W00t! 14th in the 3v3 Platinum in North America. Only behind 13 people... and the 19,100 people in Diamond, fail


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 

It's interesting that korean players have lower winning percentage than US players.

That's because there are probably more good players on average. In the US the top players are much better than the players below them for some reason.


----------



## DoomDash

1800 Terran tries cheesing me in Ladder ( Proxy rax ):



I felt like I was playing like **** ( control ), but I held it off pretty well. Enjoy


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well it's your fault for egging him on with "gl hf"


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
well it's your fault for egging him on with "gl hf"

My theory has always been : "GL HF" with no reply = proxy.


----------



## raizooor3

Funny replay









Me vs Zerg


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
My theory has always been : "GL HF" with no reply = proxy.

The fail was strong within that one.


----------



## ThumperSD

Who here splits workers? How much of a difference does it practically make? Ive been doing it on and off and been starting to do it again lately.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Who here splits workers? How much of a difference does it practically make? Ive been doing it on and off and been starting to do it again lately.

I read a thread on TL and it doesn't give you any gains and has more room for errors. I do change the path on the rally for the first two though.


----------



## burwij

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=129010

I think the general thinking is that splitting workers is either an extremely small advantage or a wash. The downside is that it creates extra opportunities for you to mess up, so you could easily go from a 5 mineral advantage to a 10 or 15 mineral deficit if you misclick somewhere.

The "F1 split" looks like it might be worth trying, but right now I just box and click once.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Who here splits workers?

I don't know what it means, but it sounds painful.


----------



## DoomDash

btw I broke 1400+.

Is NA bnet giving anyone else issues tonight?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do what whitera do, split workers into 3 groups of 2s!

I'm not good enough to do that. It's definitely a wash and I just split in twos, just to practice more apm every game.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I read a thread on TL and it doesn't give you any gains and has more room for errors. I do change the path on the rally for the first two though.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=129010

I think the general thinking is that splitting workers is either an extremely small advantage or a wash. The downside is that it creates extra opportunities for you to mess up, so you could easily go from a 5 mineral advantage to a 10 or 15 mineral deficit if you misclick somewhere.

The "F1 split" looks like it might be worth trying, but right now I just box and click once.

Yea I didnt think it was really that much more effective compared to just ordering all 6 to one patch. I mess up sometimes with misclicks but rarely anymore after I got my new mouse.

I do see most pros doing it though. Id think that there is a very slightly small advantage but should only be done if you can execute it cleanly every time.

Switching rally to an un-mined patch is a good strat also. Best to rally them to the next patch closest to your nexus but like splitting workers its a small advantage. All of these things do add up though.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
btw I broke 1400+.

Is NA bnet giving anyone else issues tonight?

Not here


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Pretty simple to use, simply. Very very bad against anybody who knows how to beat bio pretty much. It's much easier to use any tier Protoss unit effectively compared to any tier Terran unit. I do think bio is easy to use until a certain point though. Just much easier to 4 gate or 3 gate robo, build some immortals, colossus, and fly around observers for scouting.

Also, warp gates encourge players not to queue. Building buildings is effortless and requires no additional micro or SCV managing, and building placement is far less important. Much easier to control the map with pylons to warp in units, vs newbie terran players have awful reinforcement waves.

Good points but every race has its pros and cons. For example terran doesnt have to construct buildings in a designated area and can get easy scouts with scan. Also you can just hotkey your barracks and just press D and A (A is marine right?) every 30 secs or so without having to turn your attention away from what you're doing and rally them. But warp gates are really easy to use even though it requires you to find a pylon to warp your units by. I think terran is equally as simple to pick up to use as protoss but like any race takes time to master. The traditional RTS play is Terran's style.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Good points but every race has its pros and cons. For example terran doesnt have to construct buildings in a designated area and can get easy scouts with scan. Also you can just hotkey your barracks and just press D and A (A is marine right?) every 30 secs or so without having to turn your attention away from what you're doing and rally them. But warp gates are really easy to use even though it requires you to find a pylon to warp your units by. I think terran is equally as simple to pick up to use as protoss but like any race takes time to master. The traditional RTS play is Terran's style.

I just think Terran is the hardest. That's why I picked them ( and they are cool ). My friend was on my ass with half my APM w/ Protoss ( in ladder ). He was pretty awful.. but some how successful vs lots of people. Protoss is just such a well rounded race. Everything they have is pretty well rounded with plenty of HP. Nothing to worry about dying to storms, colossus lasers, FG, ect ect in a shot or 2.

Just my opinion. I absolutely agree each race has pros and cons. I'm not saying Protoss is better than Terran, just they are easier to pick up on average.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
My theory has always been : "GL HF" with no reply = proxy.

LOL I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.
When I get no response I assume the following:

Terran= Proxy cheese
Protoss= Cannon cheese
Zerg= 6 Pool

Not always the case, but more than 50% of the time it ends up being true.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
1800 Terran tries cheesing me in Ladder ( Proxy rax ):



I felt like I was playing like **** ( control ), but I held it off pretty well. Enjoy









You can't spawn on closest rush distance positions on this map. Also weird how he didn't make a bunker in your base with the SCV that came with marines. Always feels good to defend a cheese though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
LOL I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.
When I get no response I assume the following:

Terran= Proxy cheese
Protoss= Cannon cheese
Zerg= 6 Pool

Not always the case, but more than 50% of the time it ends up being true.

It's true. On the other hand people that are being too nice, like "where are you from?", "how is it like there?" etc. are usually trying to distract you and will cheese often as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
LOL I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.
When I get no response I assume the following:

Terran= Proxy cheese
Protoss= Cannon cheese
Zerg= 6 Pool

Not always the case, but more than 50% of the time it ends up being true.


Well looking at your profile I'd except bad manner / cheese in every game I played ( In Bronze ).









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You can't spawn on closest rush distance positions on this map. Also weird how he didn't make a bunker in your base with the SCV that came with marines. Always feels good to defend a cheese though.

I don't recall exactly but I'm pretty sure I target fired that SCV as soon as I could. In fact my entire reason for attacking the first one with my own SCV was the feeling cheese was coming ( no gl hf reply ect ).


----------



## DoomDash

Cory I see you posting on TL







.


----------



## rhed5

Terran is the easiest! My friend who isn't as good as me (half my APM) does super well on ladder for some reason! Marauders banshees MULE's all so super efficient. Terran is so efficient and so easy to pick up. I'm protoss because I am a man and it's the hardest race to master! I'm the best!

I can provide you guys with all the anecdotal evidence that proves my case. If you guys have contradicting anecdotes, it does not matter because I am a higher level diamond than you and thus anecdotes are more valueable.

Disclaimer: I actually play random and am not a high ranking diamond.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Terran is the easiest! My friend who isn't as good as me (half my APM) does super well on ladder for some reason! Marauders banshees MULE's all so super efficient. Terran is so efficient and so easy to pick up. I'm protoss because I am a man and it's the hardest race to master! I'm the best!

I can provide you guys with all the anecdotal evidence that proves my case. If you guys have contradicting anecdotes, it does not matter because I am a higher level diamond than you and thus anecdotes are more valueable.

Disclaimer: I actually play random and am not a high ranking diamond.











I merely express my opinion based upon my experiences







.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

How's my play?

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...steppes-of-war

TvP, I'm T, early reaper then marine marauder was going to go for siege tanks, but saw that he was spending minerals on an early early expand instead of units, so just took him out.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well looking at your profile I'd except bad manner / cheese in every game I played ( In Bronze ).









True.
Most people in Bronze follow the same strategies, and now that I've learned to deal with them, my win ration has gone up about 10%.

Against Terran I build Banelings to deal with the Bio Ball push that comes at 6-7 minute mark.
Against Protoss I build Queens and Hydralisks to deal with the 2 Void Rays that they send as soon as they finish.
Against Zerg I get 10 drones then Spawning Pool and make 2 Spine Crawlers to deal with the 6 pool rush that comes in 75% of the ZvZ matchups.

Honestly if you follow this you will win most of your Bronze games without even scouting because most people are so bad.
Everyone just goes one base and attacks as soon as they feel they have enough troops to crush the enemy.
If I survive their first attack I win almost 100% of the time.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/13/pr...-fun-to-watch/

Did you guys see the GSL Season 2 Brackets?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=160514


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Everyone just goes one base and attacks as soon as they feel they have enough troops to crush the enemy.
If I survive their first attack I win almost 100% of the time.

That's pretty much the same as lower diamond.


----------



## DoomDash

Patch 1.1.2!!!

http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

Quote:


StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.1.2

General

-Players will no longer receive achievement toasts while their status is set to "Busy."
-The messaging when attempting to load a saved game or replay from a previous version has been clarified
-Adjusted the amount of points earned and lost by random team participants to properly reflect the strength of a player's teammates.

Balance

PROTOSS
Buildings
-Nexus life and shields increased from 750/750 to 1000/1000.
Void Ray
-Damage level 1 increased from 5 to 6 (+4 armored).
-Damage level 2 decreased from 10 (+15 armored) to 8 (+8 armored).
-Flux Vanes speed upgrade bonus decreased from 1.125 to 0.703.
TERRAN
Buildings
-Barracks requirement changed from Command Center to Supply Depot.
-Supply Depot life increased from 350 to 400.
Medivac
-Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25.
-Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5.
Reaper
-Nitro Packs speed upgrade now has a Factory Requirement.
Thor
-Energy bar removed.
-250mm Strike Cannons is now cooldown-based on a 50-second cooldown. Ability starts with cooldown available (useable immediately after upgrade is researched).
ZERG
Buildings
-Hatchery life increased from 1250 to 1500.
-Lair life increased from 1800 to 2000.
-Spawning Pool life increased from 750 to 1000.
-Spire life increased from 600 to 850.
-Ultralisk Cavern life increased from 600 to 850.
Corruptor
-Energy bar removed.
-Corruption is now cooldown-based on a 45-second cooldown. Ability starts with cooldown expired (must wait for full 45-second cycle before usable).
Infestor
-Fungal Growth now prevents Blink.
Roach
-Range increased from 3 to 4.

Bug Fixes

-Fixed an issue where players could not cast the Feedback spell on Point Defense Drones.
-Fixed an issue where the Phoenix would continue to channel Graviton Beam after the target died.
-Fixed an issue that would cause Larvae to spawn and be hidden behind Zerg eggs.
-Fixed an issue where players were unable to navigate to the Single Player page or watch replays after canceling map downloads from the queue.
-Fixed a desync that could occur on user-created maps with custom mod dependencies.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Just my opinion. I absolutely agree each race has pros and cons. I'm not saying Protoss is better than Terran, just they are easier to pick up on average.

We're gona have to agree to disagree then


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
We're gona have to agree to disagree then

NO! I won't agree to this.


----------



## rhed5

Good update. Void's nerfed. Medivacs nerfed, corruptors autocasting will give alot of help dealing with collossi and air in general. Along with the roach range update, will bring some life for zerg.
Still dissapointed about the reaper nerf. I know it was meant to target 2:2's but they will never be used in 1:1's save for the really early one to capture the xelnaga tower.


----------



## rhed5

When is the patch going live? Or has battle.net already been patched?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
NO! I won't agree to this.









Your opinion doesnt matter


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
When is the patch going live? Or has battle.net already been patched?

Havent gotten a patch update yet today. I didnt even know they were gona be releasing a new patch soon.


----------



## thiru

LOL.

Seriously? Thor's and corrupters aren't feedback-able anymore, and on top of that void rays' armored damage was nerfed by 64%? what the hell is protoss supposed to do against mass thors?

edit: IMO zerg is the hardest race. I don't see how anyone can disagree.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I've just about had it with zerg. Half of bronze league is just a bunch of people ramming void rays up my zerg ass. It works every time unless the P player makes a mistake. Blizzard needs to fix this. As things are now bronze league might as well be called "Void Ray League."

Then, why not take advantage? Expand early, made some zerglings+banelings and crawlers just incase they aren't void rays(although, it's better to sac an overload to check) and then tech to lair, spire and building a lot of mutalisks. Wait for attack, go in, kill one or two rays, move out till uncharge, rinse and repeat and then finish them off with mutalisks or put a worm in their base with slings+blings, etc.... Pretty easy to counter as long as you see them turtle and do some scouting to confirm the idea that they are going for void rays









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
well it's your fault for egging him on with "gl hf"

lol, I always say hello and gl hf. More cases than not, I get answers and even them asking what's up, but, there are times where they didn't









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
btw I broke 1400+.

Is NA bnet giving anyone else issues tonight?

Congrats









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well looking at your profile I'd except bad manner / cheese in every game I played ( In Bronze ).









I don't recall exactly but I'm pretty sure I target fired that SCV as soon as I could. In fact my entire reason for attacking the first one with my own SCV was the feeling cheese was coming ( no gl hf reply ect ).


Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
True.
Most people in Bronze follow the same strategies, and now that I've learned to deal with them, my win ration has gone up about 10%.

Against Terran I build Banelings to deal with the Bio Ball push that comes at 6-7 minute mark.
Against Protoss I build Queens and Hydralisks to deal with the 2 Void Rays that they send as soon as they finish.
Against Zerg I get 10 drones then Spawning Pool and make 2 Spine Crawlers to deal with the 6 pool rush that comes in 75% of the ZvZ matchups.

Honestly if you follow this you will win most of your Bronze games without even scouting because most people are so bad.
Everyone just goes one base and attacks as soon as they feel they have enough troops to crush the enemy.
If I survive their first attack I win almost 100% of the time.

Interesting to consider, I had 3-4 games with bronze players and all of them were spamming void rays or with terrans, it was banshees then building vikings for mutalisks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Patch 1.1.2!!!

http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

Nice, didn't think they will reduce void ray damage, but, at least they reduced their second damage down, means mutalisks and other units will have more hp if they survive enough for third damage







I like the building increases for both protoss and zerg. The range of roach and infestor FG are also great, not sure about corruption and I think the supply depot one is going a bit far, although, they did increase their health meaning they are better to use for turtling, lol. Surprised by medivac speed decreases, although, they aren't game breaking


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
LOL.

Seriously? Thor's and corrupters aren't feedback-able anymore, and on top of that void rays' armored damage was nerfed by 64%? what the hell is protoss supposed to do against mass thors?

***? feedback is useless now









I didnt feel like feedback it needed a nerf.. ESPECIALLY against thors
EDIT: noticed that Thors no longer have energy

The extra Nexus HP was unneeded. Didnt think the medivac speed nerf was needed either. Reapers will be even more useless.

Zerg got some nice buffs to their buildings


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
NO! I won't agree to this.










Man you are so biased. Just saw you post on TL.net where you're trying spread the same kind of views like "IntoTheRainbow chose terran b/c P and Z were too easy"







Seriously? These are people who make living from playing the game, they will choose whatever race they feel they will have the easiest time winning, especially pros that had some time to look into balance issues. Most beta random players switched to terran. Zerg players consider switching to terran. I'm pretty sure it's not because it is the most challenging race to play.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Patch 1.1.2!!!

http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

Awesome. Any info when does it go live? I totally agree with void raid nerf, never really been fan of them. Good to see PDD and phoenix bugs gone too. I wonder if medievac change is a nerf or buff though. Maybe some terran players complained that when they 1a they whole army medievacs would arrive there earlier and get killed before their MM come.







Oh and immortal remains the only reasonable counter to thors now.

Edit: Waiting for planetary fortress nerf next.


----------



## thiru

I bet I'll start seeing more thors in PvT now.

edit: which means less colossi and more immortals :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Good update. Void's nerfed. Medivacs nerfed, corruptors autocasting will give alot of help dealing with collossi and air in general. Along with the roach range update, will bring some life for zerg.
Still dissapointed about the reaper nerf. I know it was meant to target 2:2's but they will never be used in 1:1's save for the really early one to capture the xelnaga tower.

Is corruptors autocasting? From what I read, they just removed energy bar and made it so that you have to wait 45 seconds for each corruption instead of building it up to use, however, it doesn't mention autocasting anywhere









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
LOL.

Seriously? Thor's and corrupters aren't feedback-able anymore, and on top of that void rays' armored damage was nerfed by 64%? what the hell is protoss supposed to do against mass thors?

edit: IMO zerg is the hardest race. I don't see how anyone can disagree.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
***? feedback is useless now









I didnt feel like feedback it needed a nerf.. ESPECIALLY against thors

I don't feel feedback needed nerfing either, although, I'm sure you guys will find a way to take down thors. Maybe dts, since, they are cloaked and most terran players in my league don't use ravens at all, so, you can take them down np.

Edit: Forgot about immortals, never mind







^^


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I bet I'll start seeing more thors in PvT now.

edit: which means less colossi and more immortals :/

Yea with HTs useless against Thors, you're gonna have to get chargelots/immortals


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yea with HTs useless against Thors, you're gonna have to get chargelots/immortals

yes, but, aren't immortals supposed to be used to counter thors and ultras due to their hardened shields? I do agree that HTs feedback sounds wonderful against thors though, especially for players who don't use the cannons at all which are most players meaning that their energy was full when they attacked


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Is corruptors autocasting? From what I read, they just removed energy bar and made it so that you have to wait 45 seconds for each corruption instead of building it up to use, however, it doesn't mention autocasting anywhere









I don't feel feedback needed nerfing either, although, I'm sure you guys will find a way to take down thors. Maybe dts, since, they are cloaked and most terran players in my league don't use ravens at all, so, you can take them down np.

Edit: Forgot about immortals, never mind







^^

I certainly hope it's not auto-casting, corrrupters would be too easy to use... they already dominate air.

DTs work only once against an army. And they can be 2-shotted by thors so that's a rather quick way of dispatching a 125/125 unit.


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody going to Blizzcon? Ive been a fan of blizz games for so long but havent attended this convention despite being less than a 2 hour drive away


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I certainly hope it's not auto-casting, corrrupters would be too easy to use... they already dominate air.

DTs work only once against an army. And they can be 2-shotted by thors so that's a rather quick way of dispatching a 125/125 unit.

I don't think it's auto-casting at all, just that they can't be feedback'd anymore, since, if you pool up your energy, you can do several corruptions at once. I've tried this and it works well to increase damage against enemy unit especially things such as bcs and carriers








As for dts, yes, you are correct, I totally forgot about immortals as a viable option thus the edit part, however, if you can sneak a dt or two into your opponent's mineral line or an exp, they do great damage and then you can move them out and back in after they scan if they are terran


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Anybody going to Blizzcon? Ive been a fan of blizz games for so long but havent attended one of this convention despite being less than a 2 hour drive away

Unfortunately not, no. Too many things, not enough time and I live rather far away as well


----------



## DoomDash

Oh silly protoss you still have immortals for thors. I'm sure a VR will still beat a thor 1v1. I can test once its live. Its already patching for SEA.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Man you are so biased. Just saw you post on TL.net where you're trying spread the same kind of views like "IntoTheRainbow chose terran b/c P and Z were too easy"







Seriously? These are people who make living from playing the game, they will choose whatever race they feel they will have the easiest time winning, especially pros that had some time to look into balance issues. Most beta random players switched to terran. Zerg players consider switching to terran. I'm pretty sure it's not because it is the most challenging race to play.

Edit: Waiting for planetary fortress nerf next.

Doubt that will happen. ( for the edit )

For the rest: I just posted what he said. Honestly I like to argue ( and especially poke fun at people ), don't always believe what I say I believe







.

and one more thing, feed back is still incredible.


----------



## canoners

Arghhh now I can't feedback Thors and VR is nerfed >_>


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Oh silly protoss you still have immortals for thors. I'm sure a VR will still beat a thor 1v1. I can test once its live. Its already patching for SEA.

Well now that I think about it, since thors shoot air units before ground units (right?) and void rays are armored and can suck it up, they're still a very good option I guess (if only to screw up thors' attack priority).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Oh silly protoss you still have immortals for thors. I'm sure a VR will still beat a thor 1v1. I can test once its live. Its already patching for SEA.

Doubt that will happen. ( for the edit )

For the rest: I just posted what he said. Honestly I like to argue ( and especially poke fun at people ), don't always believe what I say I believe







.

and one more thing, feed back is still incredible.

I don't PF will be nerfed anytime soon, since, you can employ siege tanks, immortals, thors(using cannons) and other air units to take them down from afar.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I don't PF will be nerfed anytime soon, since, you can employ siege tanks, immortals, thors(using cannons) and other air units to take them down from afar.

It's not the PF that's OP, it's the fact that you can repair it with an entire mineral line's worth of SCVs and it will NEVER DIE.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's not the PF that's OP, it's the fact that you can repair it with an entire mineral line's worth of SCVs and it will NEVER DIE.

Perhaps if Protoss had a siege unit that out ranged a PF, maybe if it also did some sort of splash damage to take out repairing SCV's.. if only Protoss had something like this.

Anyway, 1.1.2 tested! 1v1 VR vs Thor, VR wins with 82 hp left. about 1 hit more than before.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Oh silly protoss you still have immortals for thors. I'm sure a VR will still beat a thor 1v1. I can test once its live. Its already patching for SEA.

VRs are good against thors if you use the magic box trick but I rarely make a stargate against terran until late in the game. I need that robo out for an observer. Might as well use the robo facility if you already made it. Efficiency baby.


----------



## DoomDash

Test #2: Roaches can now hit cannons behind gateway blocks. If the cannon is 1 spot back the roaches are in range of the gateway but out of range of the cannon. Huge buff.


----------



## elson

I thought they were going to nerf VRs -_-


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Test #2: Roaches can now hit cannons behind gateway blocks. If the cannon is 1 spot back the roaches are in range of the gateway but out of range of the cannon. Huge buff.

This will make getting that fast expo against zerg much harder and encourage more 4 gating


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Perhaps if Protoss had a siege unit that out ranged a PF, maybe if it also did some sort of splash damage to take out repairing SCV's.. if only Protoss had something like this.

I was rather thinking about zerg actually. I never go pure warpgate units now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elson* 
I thought they were going to nerf VRs -_-

They did... pretty big nerf over all.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elson* 
I thought they were going to nerf VRs -_-

Read patch notes


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's not the PF that's OP, it's the fact that you can repair it with an entire mineral line's worth of SCVs and it will NEVER DIE.

yes, I know, it's what people were complaining about at the zerg forums as well as the ultralisk fix


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I was rather thinking about zerg actually. I never go pure warpgate units now.

Perhaps if they had a unit that could freeze SCV's in their tracks while doing 36 damage. Perhaps if they had a unit that could roll into battle and detonate on buildings also causing nearby units to die in the process. Perhaps if they had a unit that had cleaves that did splash damage and soaked up 100% of the PF splash damage.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Perhaps if Protoss had a siege unit that out ranged a PF, maybe if it also did some sort of splash damage to take out repairing SCV's.. if only Protoss had something like this.

Anyway, 1.1.2 tested! 1v1 VR vs Thor, VR wins with 82 hp left. about 1 hit more than before.

lol, are you talking about colossus here? I don't know their range myself, so, I can't tell if they can hit PF from afar









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Test #2: Roaches can now hit cannons behind gateway blocks. If the cannon is 1 spot back the roaches are in range of the gateway but out of range of the cannon. Huge buff.

I thought they could always hit cannons behind gateways. I know I was hitting those cannons in the 4vs4 games we played yesterday









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Perhaps if they had a unit that could freeze SCV's in their tracks while doing 36 damage. Perhaps if they had a unit that could roll into battle and detonate on buildings also causing nearby units to die in the process. Perhaps if they had a unit that had cleaves that did splash damage and soaked up 100% of the PF splash damage.

lol, banelings FTW


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Perhaps if they had a unit that could freeze SCV's in their tracks while doing 36 damage. Perhaps if they had a unit that could roll into battle and detonate on buildings also causing nearby units to die in the process. Perhaps if they had a unit that had cleaves that did splash damage and soaked up 100% of the PF splash damage.

I was thinking about mid game, before ultras. But yeah banelings would do. Guess I didn't think of that since I rarely see them myself.

Edit: colossi have 6 range and 9 upgraded range. It's AWESOME.


----------



## cory1234

I'm glad I've been playing random lately. It looks like it's zergs turn to be OP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

I thought they could always hit cannons behind gateways. I know I was hitting those cannons in the 4vs4 games we played yesterday










They could probably hit the cannon, but not from one space back. That's why I gave both examples.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I was thinking about mid game, before ultras. But yeah banelings would do. Guess I didn't think of that since I rarely see them myself.

Edit: colossi have 6 range and 9 upgraded range. It's AWESOME.

They are SUPER popular in ZvT right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I was thinking about mid game, before ultras. But yeah banelings would do. Guess I didn't think of that since I rarely see them myself.

Edit: colossi have 6 range and 9 upgraded range. It's AWESOME.

lol, beat you to it ^^

One thing you guys forget, I doubt most opponent with have a PF with no other defense. Also, it's gonna take a TON of banelings to take it down and you'll lose a decent amount to get those SCVs in the process, but, overall banelings are a nice addition to zerg


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, beat you to it ^^

One thing you guys forget, I doubt most opponent with have a PF with no other defense. Also, it's gonna take a TON of banelings to take it down and you'll lose a decent amount to get those SCVs in the process, but, overall banelings are a nice addition to zerg









I was just telling you what the colossus range was.

err you don't use banelings on the PF, you use them on the workers then you take out the PF with your units.


----------



## DoomDash

Even if you use banes on the PF you can kill SCV's in the process. I also believe the value ends up in Zerg's favor.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
They could probably hit the cannon, but not from one space back. That's why I gave both examples.

They are SUPER popular in ZvT right now.

I see, I assumed that why the reason, but, needed to check. I never used banelings until only recently against T and even P. I never realized how strong they are at taking down photo cannons and even large armies with enough support of course









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I was just telling you what the colossus range was.

err you don't use banelings on the PF, you use them on the workers then you take out the PF with your units.

That was a joke







What's a PF's range then? As for banelings on PF, well, not a good since it's only 20, however, I meant getting to the SCVs, you'll lose a good amount of them and this doesn't include having some defense with the PF as well as possibly a mediavc or two loading the SCV, but, it's unlikely that terran players have medivacs just standing around


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Even if you use banes on the PF you can kill SCV's in the process. I also believe the value ends up in Zerg's favor.

Unless the terran army is close by and engages your army while you were trying to destroy the PF and you lose because you didn't have banelings.

Before you reply, yeah, it's a scouting/decision error in that case.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Perhaps if Protoss had a siege unit that out ranged a PF, maybe if it also did some sort of splash damage to take out repairing SCV's.. if only Protoss had something like this.

Watch Wednesday's day 9, he talks with HuK about the planetary fortress.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
One thing you guys forget, I doubt most opponent with have a PF with no other defense.

Most often than not they will. It's what prevents finishing terran off after won battle and also makes most kinds of ground harassment really hard.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Watch Wednesday's day 9, he talks with HuK about the planetary fortress.

Is it up? If it is provide a link... and if not cliffs?

PF is range 7 before the range upgrade.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Even if you use banes on the PF you can kill SCV's in the process. I also believe the value ends up in Zerg's favor.

It all depends on how many banelings you use. Yesterday i killed a PF with about 30 hydraz. I just target fired all the scvs first, then took it out. NOW, that would be ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE if the terran had attack units around, which is what makes PFs awesome.

Question: does a spore colony still detect even though its not burried? i havent had a chance to check. Honestly, taking off the thor energy is INSANE. now feedback wont work. Not that there are ANY terrans who ever went thors against me as protoss







but id like to have the option. Corrupters vs zerg didnt seem to be much of a problem since id rather storm them than feedback em since they always corrupt colossi and other units.

Colossus still outranges a PF right? extended thermal lance is 9 and PF with upgrade range at bay is only 7 no?


----------



## thiru

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4244308/
I'm watching this now.

edit: @nevaz spore colonies don't detect when unborrowed. Colossus upgraded (9) outranges PF upgraded (7)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4244308/
I'm watching this now.

edit: @nevaz spore colonies don't detect when unborrowed. Colossus upgraded (9) outranges PF upgraded (7)

They should detect while unburrowed dammit.


----------



## rhed5

I don't have a big complaint about PF's generally but in island's they are indistructable. A few turrets & PF and you are all set.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Watch Wednesday's day 9, he talks with HuK about the planetary fortress.

Most often than not they will. It's what prevents finishing terran off after won battle and also makes most kinds of ground harassment really hard.

ah I see. Mostly going from what I've seen Doom does in his games. TBH, I've never had to deal with a PF against any terran opponent










Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Is it up? If it is provide a link... and if not cliffs?

PF is range 7 before the range upgrade.

Nice, before upgrade? I thought 7 after upgrade based on comments below









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
It all depends on how many banelings you use. Yesterday i killed a PF with about 30 hydraz. I just target fired all the scvs first, then took it out. NOW, that would be ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE if the terran had attack units around, which is what makes PFs awesome.

Question: does a spore colony still detect even though its not burried? i havent had a chance to check. Honestly, taking off the thor energy is INSANE. now feedback wont work. Not that there are ANY terrans who ever went thors against me as protoss







but id like to have the option. Corrupters vs zerg didnt seem to be much of a problem since id rather storm them than feedback em since they always corrupt colossi and other units.

Colossus still outranges a PF right? extended thermal lance is 9 and PF with upgrade range at bay is only 7 no?

PFs are great with some turrets and possibly some marines, medivacs and tanks against banenlings attack







Well, immortals should take down thors and storm is good against corruptors since they don't attack ground









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4244308/
I'm watching this now.

edit: @nevaz spore colonies don't detect when unborrowed. Colossus upgraded (9) outranges PF upgraded (7)

That's disappointing. It means you are taking a big risk moving them around if you plan to do that


----------



## DoomDash

I meant 6*. 7 With upgrade. Turrets are 7 and 8 w/ upgrade.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I meant 6*. 7 With upgrade. Turrets are 7 and 8 w/ upgrade.

Interesting.

Seems people are having problems with the patch, I don't think I'll be upgrading just yet


----------



## Nevaziah

THiru, Red, you guys wanna do the daily weirdness again?


----------



## thiru

Yeah sure. Let me get dinner first though


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Interesting.

Seems people are having problems with the patch, I don't think I'll be upgrading just yet









I have no problems with it. Why wouldn't you upgrade? You can't play with out it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I have no problems with it. Why wouldn't you upgrade? You can't play with out it.

That's not what I meant. I meant I'll be upgrading later on today, just not now, because, I'm not sure how this patch effects the editor, so, I'll be able to at least use the editor while they fix the problem









Edit: Nevermind, took the plunge either way


----------



## Nevaziah

Ill be home in exactly 30 minutes. wayt for meeeeeh!!!!!!!!

*runs out of the office....


----------



## DoomDash

Watched the day9 for wed. Sounded like HuK doesn't like PF's, but doesn't believe they are imba. Day9 also didn't believe they are imba.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Poor nukes.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I updated the game and when i try to join a custom game it tell me you need the latest version?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Bout time void ray got nerfed. Damage level 2 was decreased from 10 (+15 armored) to 8 (+8 armored). Now a VR ball will actually have to respect my corruptors and spore crawlers. Also, the zerg buildings, which are armored, have a lot more hit points now. The VR's will no longer be able to knock them down like they're made of cardboard. VR base sniping in ZvP matchups just got a whole lot more difficult. Amen.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Test #2: Roaches can now hit cannons behind gateway blocks. If the cannon is 1 spot back the roaches are in range of the gateway but out of range of the cannon. Huge buff.

I agree. Combine that with the void ray nerf and the zerg building buff and it totally changes the complexion of ZvP matchups. I'm a crappy bronze zerg player with a ton of losses from P players walling in and spamming void ray. That was just a ridiculously easy tactic even for a bronze player. Bronze league was getting to the point where it should have been called Void Ray League. I guess that will change now.


----------



## DoomDash

Also, the double pylon at the bottom of your ramp cheese can now be picked off by high ground roaches ( the pylons ). Just tested it.


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

so i just got base rushed kinda any i was wondering if i even had a chance and if someone could give me some pointers?

here is my replay

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...-scrap-station


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky* 
so i just got base rushed kinda any i was wondering if i even had a chance and if someone could give me some pointers?

here is my replay

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...-scrap-station

lol
You had a marine up. Kill the probe, no more cannons or pylon. That's it, really.

Watch out though. He made his first pylon in his base and the forge there. Usually people put down a pylon outside of your base, then a forge and cannon, and THEN they come up the ramp and make a cannon up on the same level as your base, which means you probably won't see the first pylon+cannon unless he builds it too close to the ramp.
The only solution is to scout. If you see that he doesn't have any pylons in his base then he's cannon rushing you. Or, in this case, if he has a pylon+forge which shouldn't have worked since by then you have a marine to kill the probe before it can make a cannon.

edit: also if he doesn't have anything there he may also be proxy-gateway-ing you (gateway somewhere near your base for heavy zealot pressure). I don't think this happens as often nowadays with the zealot nerf. In any case if it happens build a bunker.


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

k thanks

if i kill the probe and he had already built a pylon can he warpin another probe at that pylon or does the need an upgrade or something


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky*


k thanks

if i kill the probe and he had already built a pylon can he warpin another probe at that pylon or does the need an upgrade or something


No. Probes can only be made in a nexus. A gateway can be turned into a warpgate, which can create units (zealot sentry stalker high/dark templar, but not probes) near any pylon on the map, but at this stage of the game, he doesn't have that research. Heck I don't think he even had a gateway yet, let alone a cybernetics core + the research.

You should play the other races a bit just to know them better and not be afraid or unaware of things like this


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I agree. Combine that with the void ray nerf and the zerg building buff and it totally changes the complexion of ZvP matchups. I'm a crappy bronze zerg player with a ton of losses from P players walling in and spamming void ray. That was just a ridiculously easy tactic even for a bronze player. Bronze league was getting to the point where it should have been called Void Ray League. I guess that will change now.


They might spam it a lot, but, it's very easy to counter. You can get a lot of wins and have some fun with them, if you watch their base as they build void rays, since, they would have nothing else and then you can bust down the wall and move zerglings into their base to wreak havoc. It's a lot of fun









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also, the double pylon at the bottom of your ramp cheese can now be picked off by high ground roaches ( the pylons ). Just tested it.


Nice, means that building cannons behind pylons won't work, however, they can built pylon behind the cannons to keep them powered, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky*


k thanks

if i kill the probe and he had already built a pylon can he warpin another probe at that pylon or does the need an upgrade or something


Nope, he can't warp in probe. He can only wrap in gateway units once he has a wrap gate, so, you should be fine


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky*


so i just got base rushed kinda any i was wondering if i even had a chance and if someone could give me some pointers?

here is my replay

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...-scrap-station



That was sickening... Kill that probe! Even when you lost your command center, use that banshee and kill all his probes at the main. Use your medivac and do some main base harass.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
That was sickening... Kill that probe! Even when you lost your command center, use that banshee and kill all his probes at the main. Use your medivac and do some main base harass.

Lol he had a banshee at one point? I just stopped watching when I saw that he could have solved the fail cannon rush by killing the probe.


----------



## thiru

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153275

This made me LOL.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=153275

This made me LOL.


oh, wow, LOL indeed!









Best part:
"this is good 4 tactix bc u can burrow only the roach and then hellions come and r like "yoyo lets kill this fool hydra!" but u just unburrow and boom u have a roach and the hellions r like oh **** *** where did that roach come from??"


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't get how some people say PvP is boring. Here's my match from today featuring double gas steal and packed with tense action


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oh, wow, LOL indeed!









Best part:
"this is good 4 tactix bc u can burrow only the roach and then hellions come and r like "yoyo lets kill this fool hydra!" but u just unburrow and boom u have a roach and the hellions r like oh **** *** where did that roach come from??"


Love it. Best thing EVER!


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody having trouble changing portrait? I got my executor portrait last night but havent been able to use it yet


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

do i advance to the next league when i get first place in my leader rank thingy thing?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky*


do i advance to the next league when i get first place in my leader rank thingy thing?


Not necessarily. It depends on how consistent you are with your wins/loses against other players.


----------



## BigFan

Just had a 1vs1 with Nevaziah. Great game, tried some tactics that I haven't used before and they worked well. I just wasn't expecting bcs, not sure how I missed those when I scouted







Harassed his base early on taking down 2 bunkers with the marines as well as an SCV







Nevaziah, do you mind posting the replay, since, I lost it when the game froze?


----------



## poroboszcz

I just lost a game to mass thors. /facepalm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I just lost a game to mass thors. /facepalm










hmm, as protoss? I heard immortals were great against them, but, since, I don't play protoss, I'm not sure. You said mass thors, I presume 5-6 at min? That's one thing that I love about zerg, swarm them with zerglings









Just had three games, one before playing with Nevaziah. Played against a zerg, scouted early, discovered pool and got him to stop his expo using a drone, YES, a drone, lol, he eventually chases me for a bit in his base and gives up going back to mining. I see the opportunity and decide to attack with zerglings. I get 6 zerglings in there against his 2 zerglings and queen. Since my drone was still in his base, I decided to build a spine crawler, maybe 3sec before he starts building one. I also had more zerglings on the way, so, I was able to take out more zerglings that he made and take his drones. He ended up leaving afterwards







Never used the crawler tactic before, but, I hate mirror matches and since I was already attacking with zerglings, I thought, why not?








Lost my next to mass zerglings, my fault for not making banelings to take them out and instead focusing on scouting his base. I also played protoss and he went 4 gates and eventually built a pylon right outside my exp behind some grass, talk about being sneaky







Lucky for me, I had some zerglings, crawlers and I made some banelings to take his stalkers+zealots+pylon down. Suffice to say, I destroyed his eco and his army, thus, I won







I can post for anyone who is interested


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I just lost a game to mass thors. /facepalm


Did he have a **** load of scvs/mules to repair?


----------



## DoomDash

bnets been randomly disconnecting me a lot. It's super annoying. Lucky for me it hasnt happened in a ladder yet.. but almost has.


----------



## DoomDash

Man. Good Zergs are rough.


----------



## jrgull13

i was having problems with bnet dropping me last night.. still having the damn crash issue though... I think I just need to upgrade.. wish i had money


----------



## DoomDash

I think the dropping is going on for lots of people, myself included. I saw a thread on battle.net on it.


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

woot finally beat a guy trying to rush me with those damn canons

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...ds#rd:upgrades

think a big part was i stayed calm


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 







hmm, as protoss? I heard immortals were great against them, but, since, I don't play protoss, I'm not sure. You said mass thors, I presume 5-6 at min?

Mass as in "once I'm on 3+ mining bases I won't produce a signle unit other than thor for the rest of the half hour long macro game".









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Did he have a **** load of scvs/mules to repair?

No he didn't, he had few ghosts to EMP my immortals during the first battle handful of marines and some hellions, and like 8-9 thors. I managed to win the first encounter because I mixed in some DTs into my zealot/immortal army, after that he just kept spamming thors and it was a downhill battle.

The funny thing is that it initially looked like a banshee rush, so I stayed in my base with observer and managed to intercept his hellion drop. This though has just bought him enough time to start making thors. I already had a robo bay when I looked at his army comp and was like ***, no bio at all, except ghosts so i switched to immortals only and went for templar tech, when I realized feedback is useless now. I couldn't even harass with DTs because he had PFs surronded with turrets at his expansions and I just had waves of thors incoming at my position. Now I'm thinking I should have gone carriers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Mass as in "once I'm on 3+ mining bases I won't produce a signle unit other than thor for the rest of the half hour long macro game".









No he didn't, he had few ghosts to EMP my immortals during the first battle handful of marines and some hellions, and like 8-9 thors. I managed to win the first encounter because I mixed in some DTs into my zealot/immortal army, after that he just kept spamming thors and it was a downhill battle.

The funny thing is that it initially looked like a banshee rush, so I stayed in my base with observer and managed to intercept his hellion drop. This though has just bought him enough time to start making thors. I already had a robo bay when I looked at his army comp and was like ***, no bio at all, except ghosts so i switched to immortals only and went for templar tech, when I realized feedback is useless now. I couldn't even harass with DTs because he had PFs surronded with turrets at his expansions and I just had waves of thors incoming at my position. Now I'm thinking I should have gone carriers.

oh I see







I think zealots, dts and immortals are the best versus thors. Void rays are supposed to be pretty strong against them and since he didn't have ghosts to EMP, it might have helped. I think dts, immortals and void rays would've been great, since, thors attack air first leaving your dts as well as immortals to do some heavy damage not including void rays charging to their max damage


----------



## yellowtoblerone

There's no "good" counter vs thors, esp if you figure ghosts into it. Immortals become useless, DT's become uncloaked with already low hp and slow attacks. The only thing I can think that will work good with micro is mass thor vs mass carriers. But by the time the carrier gets to a terran base after fighting thors in the middle of the park the terran's already got a marine and viking ball set up ready to go. However, the toss with mass carriers on two or threw base's got a tiny tiny ground force that can't counter against that terran ball.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky* 
woot finally beat a guy trying to rush me with those damn canons

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...ds#rd:upgrades

think a big part was i stayed calm









WHY DO YOU have your command center, and he had his nexus hotkeyed to 0? Huk says he does it as a habit from broodwar. Same case with you?

Btw, your early supply depot placement wasn't great. THe first one at the choke served no purpose. The other one on the left farther than the bunker, along with the engie bay was too far out. The 2nd bunker was bad placement. You want the bunker to be on the outer edges, and then micro your marines out when the zealots rush pass it to the mineral line to bait them. Always have an scv to repair once you see zealots coming. Siege up! Took you too long to do that.

Here is a great thing you could've done:

COUNTER

take two marines and a marauder to his unguarded base before the 10min or after that. It's GG for him.


----------



## DoomDash

Who the hell can afford thor's AND ghosts!!!?!??


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Painuser

Jinro


----------



## poroboszcz

Terran? If they can afford 3 rax, factory and 2 starports on 1 base and still expand why not thors and ghosts. He was on 2 bases though and he added only a few ghosts later after seeing me massing immortals. After that he stopped making them completely.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky* 
woot finally beat a guy trying to rush me with those damn canons

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...ds#rd:upgrades

think a big part was i stayed calm









There should be NO point at which you aren't building SCVs. You have your command center hotkeyed, every time you hear "SCV, ready to go" hit 0 then S then go back to what you were doing. Takes one second, maybe less if your APM is high, and it ensures that you have the economy for the end game. Also it's better to be aggressive than defensive, never use a building when a unit can do the same job.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Terran? If they can afford 3 rax, factory and 2 starports on 1 base and still expand why not thors and ghosts. He was on 2 bases though and he added only a few ghosts later after seeing me massing immortals. After that he stopped making them completely.

Def much harder than you think. Ghosts are $$ gas, as are Thor's. I tried out today it's possible but idk, Immortals are still solid.


----------



## ThumperSD

Has Day9 uploaded his Wed commentary with Huk? I cant find it on his channel


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Has Day9 uploaded his Wed commentary with Huk? I cant find it on his channel

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4244308/


----------



## DoomDash

Watching MLG. It's started.

http://events.mlgpro.com/takeovers/p...site_id=mlgpro


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Def much harder than you think. Ghosts are $$ gas, as are Thor's. I tried out today it's possible but idk, Immortals are still solid.

As far as I remember it was something like marines > hellion drops/harass > thors/expo > more thors + ghost. Also a fact worth noting is that 250mm cannon 1 shots and stunts both immortals and colossi.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I don't really like builds like that. Not how I roll.

Yeah I used the cannons a bunch today. Not sure how I feel about a Thor build vs standard MMG.


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...erns.SC2Replay

probably the most fun game i've played in a long time. He initially triple proxy gated me and I had no idea where for the longest time, managed to hold back the force. Expanded, fought back several of his stalker attacks and some void rays, but mostly by the skin of my teeth.. eventually I couldn't keep my economy going to fight what he had







it was a loss, but god damnit i made him fight for it


----------



## DoomDash

This thread is full of useful information:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/48665273

+1 Attack vs Terran who goes heavy marauder and stims = 1 less shot to kill with an immortal. Pretty cool.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4244308/


thanks repped


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Man. Good Zergs are rough.

They can be very tough if the player has enough APM to control them and is constantly scouting, etc....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...erns.SC2Replay

probably the most fun game i've played in a long time. He initially triple proxy gated me and I had no idea where for the longest time, managed to hold back the force. Expanded, fought back several of his stalker attacks and some void rays, but mostly by the skin of my teeth.. eventually I couldn't keep my economy going to fight what he had








it was a loss, but god damnit i made him fight for it









I haven't watched the replay, but, against, stalkers from a recent game, slings+blings rule. They will take down a large amount easily especially if you support them with mutalisks and they are easy to make due to the fact that slings are mineral only and blings are only 25 gas but do devastating damage to buildings and decent enough against most units









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This thread is full of useful information:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/48665273

+1 Attack vs Terran who goes heavy marauder and stims = 1 less shot to kill with an immortal. Pretty cool.

Interesting, I rarely get the upgrades, usually since I'm trying to build a force and spending the money might take me down a unit or two, however, whenever I have surplus, then I try to get any defensive or offensive ones first depending on what I deem most urgent


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


They can be very tough if the player has enough APM to control them and is constantly scouting, etc....

I haven't watched the replay, but, against, stalkers from a recent game, slings+blings rule. They will take down a large amount easily especially if you support them with mutalisks and they are easy to make due to the fact that slings are mineral only and blings are only 25 gas but do devastating damage to buildings and decent enough against most units









Interesting, I rarely get the upgrades, usually since I'm trying to build a force and spending the money might take me down a unit or two, however, whenever I have surplus, then I try to get any defensive or offensive ones first depending on what I deem most urgent










Nah, there were a fair amount of them (i'm somewhat annoyed at the bulk of his force that killed me were stalkers... starting to hate the "mass 1/2 unit armies" crap...), couldn't really do much against them at the time


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This thread is full of useful information:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/48665273

+1 Attack vs Terran who goes heavy marauder and stims = 1 less shot to kill with an immortal. Pretty cool.


Useful indeed, thanks. It's pretty much a common sense though to get +1 armor in PvT against bio. You can see how +1 armor + guardian shield makes marines over half less effective. I know the general rule of thumb is: a lot of fast shooting/low damage per hit stuff = get armor upgrades, fewer number of heavy hitting stuff = get attack upgrades.

Edit: I see thors in like every second PvT now.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Useful indeed, thanks. It's pretty much a common sense though to get +1 armor in PvT against bio. You can see how +1 armor + guardian shield makes marines over half less effective. I know the general rule of thumb is: a lot of fast shooting/low damage per hit stuff = get armor upgrades, fewer number of heavy hitting stuff = get attack upgrades.


So as zerg, what do you get vs marines and marauders? lot of fast shooting/low damage stuff and lots of fast shooting/decently heavy hitting stuff? >_>


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


WHY DO YOU have your command center, and he had his nexus hotkeyed to 0? Huk says he does it as a habit from broodwar. Same case with you?


i use 1-5 for units and squads anad 6-0 for buildings

also i usually just put a depot right outside my entrance so i can see if someone sneaks into my base during the early parts of the game


----------



## sora1607

Just wanna announce that I just defeated a diamond terran who cheesed with 3 raxes marines and bunkers. I feel so proud of myself as zerg. It's a small accomplishment I know but it's satisfying to kill cheesers whom i despise


----------



## xHassassin

Amazon doesn't accept paypal...









Have 50 bucks in real life, can't buy a 50 item. This makes so much sense.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


So as zerg, what do you get vs marines and marauders? lot of fast shooting/low damage stuff and lots of fast shooting/decently heavy hitting stuff? >_>











Banelings used as mines work as a charm, since, they take a decent number of marines+marauders down before they get to your base and then finish them off with slings, since, most marines are gone by then


----------



## sora1607

I'd say get infestors. First you get roaches. Then you tech up a Lair and go straight for infestors. Should be able to have at least 2 fungals by the time terran pushes unless they cheese


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


I'd say get infestors. First you get roaches. Then you tech up a Lair and go straight for infestors. Should be able to have at least 2 fungals by the time terran pushes unless they cheese


Terran lost their cheese... Now they only got ham...
LOL... a super cheese was aproximately 9 gas, barrack, lab,supply, upgrade, 3/4 reapers, GO
AHHAHAHA now Reaper needs factory to get an upgrade !!!

hey guys, I just tested the new patch...
I think now the game became TRASH....

I am zerg now (used to be toss) ... But...

If the terran needs a Supply Depot before a barrack, now the terran has NO CHANCE agains zerg... 
(kidding, terran does have a chance agains zerg) But... Sux ... Sux for terran players. Not fair at all.

Are they trying to get more zerg players? ... lol...
But I think that change is really TRASHY ...

Now Zerg Pro's no longer need to rush speed at 14 GAS / 13,drone , 14 pool... 
its like a FREE expansion ZvT now.. LOL HAHAHAh !

I like it cuz im zerg but... I think thats a trash choice.
That is just my opinion, you guys can feel free to think different.


----------



## sora1607

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85*


Terran lost their cheese... Now they only got ham...
LOL... a super cheese was aproximately 9 gas, barrack, lab,supply, upgrade, 3/4 reapers, GO
AHHAHAHA now Reaper needs factory to get an upgrade !!!

hey guys, I just tested the new patch...
I think now the game became TRASH....

I am zerg now (used to be toss) ... But...

If the terran needs a Supply Depot before a barrack, now the terran has NO CHANCE agains zerg... 
(kidding, terran does have a chance agains zerg) But... Sux ... Sux for terran players. Not fair at all.

Are they trying to get more zerg players? ... lol...
But I think that change is really TRASHY ...

Now Zerg Pro's no longer need to rush speed at 14 GAS / 13,drone , 14 pool... 
its like a FREE expansion ZvT now.. LOL HAHAHAh !

I like it cuz im zerg but... I think thats a trash choice.
That is just my opinion, you guys can feel free to think different.


That's about the only nerf that I didn't agree with. Reapers are not useless. However, I wouldn't say free expo though. There are other ways terran can certainly keep the zerg under control early game. Pump out 2 rax and couple of marines then bunker up to keep the zerg at bay. Terran is still powerful though so I don't think all these nerfs are unfair at all. I would hate myself if I was Blizzard now though because after all these terran nerfs, the winner of the first GSL is a fri'kin zerg lol. But honestly, they killed reapers. That unit is now useless really.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


That's about the only nerf that I didn't agree with. Reapers are not useless. However, I wouldn't say free expo though. There are other ways terran can certainly keep the zerg under control early game. Pump out 2 rax and couple of marines then bunker up to keep the zerg at bay. Terran is still powerful though so I don't think all these nerfs are unfair at all. I would hate myself if I was Blizzard now though because after all these terran nerfs, the winner of the first GSL is a fri'kin zerg lol. But honestly, they killed reapers. That unit is now useless really.


I totally agree... I don't think the reapers have ANY good usage after early game... do you? ....

I don't think reapers can be worth using ... Plus knowing you can only upgrade them after a Factory kills them even more... They should DELETE the reaper, and add FIREBAT or something since reapers aren't units anymore.

LOL, I think the guy that compiled that patch, snifed some and hit his compile key with his head while he passed out.


----------



## sora1607

Lol. Yeah Reapers are pretty much only good for early aggressions. I mean I guess you could use them to flank mid game against zerg after a fake push or something. But it just really doesn't seem very effective because you'd sacrifice lots of time and resources to make those reapers and your force would not be able to hold against the push


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Reapers are great scouts from early to late game. Terran should always have 1 reaper around.


----------



## ReaperMan

Is the scout worth that many resources? What if the zerg pushes out, you have one less maurauder early on. I don't think the cost of a reaper is worth it. I'd go for early factory into hellions. Better for harass and better for scouting.


----------



## DoomDash

My only real problem with reapers is how much barracks time the steal. They are probably worth it as a scout sometimes though.


----------



## sora1607

Heron why are you always on here but yet never in game.... lol. Hellions pretty much don't work against zerg anymore. Roaches rape hellions with the new range buff


----------



## DoomDash

Neither do Reapers. Have to figure something else out.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ReaperMan*


Is the scout worth that many resources? What if the zerg pushes out, you have one less maurauder early on. I don't think the cost of a reaper is worth it. I'd go for early factory into hellions. Better for harass and better for scouting.


Heck yes. It's so cheap. I've seen tons of top players on replays use a single reaper the entire game, keep it alive to get watch towers and to scout for expos at set times.


----------



## Norman Bum

People seem to think that Reapers are only useful if you cheese with them early-game, but they are actually incredibly useful late-game as well.

When doing a medi-vac drop in their mineral line, send just 2 or 3 reapers to their expo at the same time. You will take out a TON of scvs' and leave your opponent running in-between bases while you take map-control.


----------



## DoomDash

I'd rather just drop.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



MLG: Protoss took the top three spots at MLG Raleigh. Do you see Protoss as the most well-represented race in North America?

Idra: Yes-Protoss is the simplest race to get good at, though it's very difficult to improve from that point, so a lot of people choose Protoss and they do well in mid- level competitions.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












Kind of true, there's an overwhelming amount of protoss in the low/middle levels

Although Idra does rage a lot.


----------



## DoomDash

A good 70% of my wins in Diamond are vs Protoss players lol. Rarely see Z or T. In fact I would say I really need to work on TvZ and TvT because of that.

Also in the overclock.net tournament I played Protoss players 100% of the way there, including the finals.

Annnnddd I have literally no Terrans besides 2 ( out of 30-40 players ) on my buddy list. They are complete newbs too.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Watch my replay you bastards!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Holy crap, I fought back an MMM push and won a game! >_>

Admittedly he attacked fairly late by my reckoning (i think he was trying for an overwhelming force), but still... burrowed banelings, infestors and such held him off









He did try a drop behind my base with two medivacs full of marines (no marauders oddly enough), which killed my hydra den but I repelled it... that was satisfying >.>


----------



## thiagocosta85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norman Bum* 
People seem to think that Reapers are only useful if you cheese with them early-game, but they are actually incredibly useful late-game as well.

When doing a medi-vac drop in their mineral line, send just 2 or 3 reapers to their expo at the same time. You will take out a TON of scvs' and leave your opponent running in-between bases while you take map-control.

Yeah... I guess you guys are right... but...
well... I am a zerg player, and..

I just can't agree with SUPPLY required b4 barracks NOR Factory required for Reaper Update...

I havent lost 1 single game agains terran after that change... because now I don't worry toomuch at early game, and I dont need speed lings right away anymore, I can wait an extra 3 mins now... that will boost my ecomnomy and safer expansion (i would say free expanssion) =D ...

Do you guys agree with the SUPLY required b4 barracks?
Do you guys agree with Factory required for reaper upgrade?

I mean think about it, IN protoss situation, we can all agree the Pylon provides POWER...
The suply only highers the number unit capacity... in another words, if we wanna have a barrac before a supply that's our problem lol !...

Im just sticking up for the terran players, since I don't hate them.
Now, protoss players don't need to scout early to see if theres cheese, so, don't need to worry about early GAS for STALKERS nor Early cannon...

Blizzard is Depressed... Im sorry...


----------



## Tchernobyl

I think the starcraft 2 forums had a post with the perfect answer to supply -> barracks. "marines complained, they were being fielded without their beer, and complained".

>_>


----------



## Tchernobyl

You Tube





Damn ravens~


----------



## DoomDash

wow @ idra vs kiwikaki game 1.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
wow @ idra vs kiwikaki game 1.

Link to VOD/replay? The octoshape thing doesn't seem to work for me well.


----------



## DoomDash

I watched it live... so IDK where it is VOD.


----------



## sora1607

Ravens against zerg seem to be another thing that works very well. I really like ravens as counter unit against bio zerg. It's much better than fighting against MMM days in and out. Nearly 80% of my matches are against fri'kin terran (with cheese) and the other 15% is against zerg. Rarely do I get match up with protoss.

Terran can certainly still cheese with 3 raxes and full on marines rush over to the zerg, containing them with bunkers and then tech up siege tank to finish the game. It's hard for macro zerg to fight against early marines. I mean if you do 14 pool, he's pro'bly got like 6 marines running to you standing around your base by the time you pool is 4/5 of the way done. If the rush distance is small, that gets even harder to propel. So I'm certainly glad the sd requirement gets put in there or it would be near impossible to macro with that cheese


----------



## DoomDash

qxc apparently used ravings vs idra in a close series. I might have to try because I am at a loss vs Zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

Feel sorry for you guys not watching this!


----------



## thiru

I can watch Idra play all day. Kiwikaki vs idra was especially awesome.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it was.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Rub it in why don't you


----------



## ThumperSD

I think either Idra or Huk is going to win this. The Kiwikaki DT rush against Whitera was awesome but still not convinced he can beat Huk.

And where is TLO?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I can watch Idra play all day. Kiwikaki vs idra was especially awesome.

Have the link to it?


----------



## DoomDash

TLO is in korea training for GSL2. Probably doesn't have money like idra from winnings to blow on plane tickets.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm uploading an extremely minor glitch on my youtube channel. I'll post it when it's finished ( 1080p ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora1607* 
That's about the only nerf that I didn't agree with. Reapers are not useless. However, I wouldn't say free expo though. There are other ways terran can certainly keep the zerg under control early game. Pump out 2 rax and couple of marines then bunker up to keep the zerg at bay. Terran is still powerful though so I don't think all these nerfs are unfair at all. I would hate myself if I was Blizzard now though because after all these terran nerfs, the winner of the first GSL is a fri'kin zerg lol. But honestly, they killed reapers. That unit is now useless really.

Just because fruitdealer played perfectly and he's on another level with the zerg, doesn't mean that Zerg is balanced, just means that he's OP









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norman Bum* 
People seem to think that Reapers are only useful if you cheese with them early-game, but they are actually incredibly useful late-game as well.

When doing a medi-vac drop in their mineral line, send just 2 or 3 reapers to their expo at the same time. You will take out a TON of scvs' and leave your opponent running in-between bases while you take map-control.

True. I don't plan terran, but, I would think reapers are still good late game if you use for scouting and some map control like you mentioned









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Watch my replay you bastards!









Yes, boss!








umm, what page was it on again?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Holy crap, I fought back an MMM push and won a game! >_>

Admittedly he attacked fairly late by my reckoning (i think he was trying for an overwhelming force), but still... burrowed banelings, infestors and such held him off









He did try a drop behind my base with two medivacs full of marines (no marauders oddly enough), which killed my hydra den but I repelled it... that was satisfying >.>

Nice, it's definitely satisfying to me when I come back or just overwhelm them completely







Didn't I tell you banelings are awesome vs. MMM push?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiagocosta85* 
Yeah... I guess you guys are right... but...
well... I am a zerg player, and..

Do you guys agree with the SUPLY required b4 barracks?
Do you guys agree with Factory required for reaper upgrade?

Blizzard is Depressed... Im sorry...

Nope, don't agree with supply one, as for reaper upgrade, not too sure about that since I play zerg









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
TLO is in korea training for GSL2. Probably doesn't have money like idra from winnings to blow on plane tickets.

Interesting.

Any links for match or is it the same as the octa one?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
TLO is in korea training for GSL2. Probably doesn't have money like idra from winnings to blow on plane tickets.

Would be awesome if he was at DC. Isnt Huk supposed to be in Korea also?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Would be awesome if he was at DC. Isnt Huk supposed to be in Korea also?

He is currently living in Korea training at the TL/OGS house. I don't think he entered GSL2 though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

Any links for match or is it the same as the octa one?









For what matches? GSL2 hasn't started yet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
For what matches? GSL2 hasn't started yet.

Nevermind, tried the octa one, it works fine


----------



## poroboszcz

Got it working as well just in time for Nony's matches.


----------



## DoomDash

Were you clicking "Yes" without reading what it was asking you?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I think either Idra or Huk is going to win this. The Kiwikaki DT rush against Whitera was awesome but still not convinced he can beat Huk.

And where is TLO?

Have the link to it?

Well Idra already beat Huk...
The losing brackets are confusing but I think the winner of the current game will play against Idra.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
TLO is in korea training for GSL2. Probably doesn't have money like idra from winnings to blow on plane tickets.

I thought Idra hadn't won anything since the beta...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Well Idra already beat Huk...
The losing brackets are confusing but I think the winner of the current game will play against Idra.

I thought Idra hadn't won anything since the beta...

He won something. IEM?


----------



## BigFan

The recent match between kiwikiki and select was awesome. I liked how kiwi was able to hold him off but eventually marauders+marines was too strong


----------



## thiru

Morrow won IEM Cologne and Fenix or qxc won IEM NY..

I'm pretty sure Idra hasn't won anything since retail. Someone compiled a thread of tournament winners for stats and Idra wasn't on it.


----------



## DoomDash

I guess you're right according to that thread. I coulda sworn he won one.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Were you clicking "Yes" without reading what it was asking you?










This too... but first I had to install chrome to make it work in general as it just refused to install in opera.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
The recent match between kiwikiki and select was awesome. I liked how kiwi was able to hold him off but eventually marauders+marines was too strong









You mean the one on Xel'Naga? The game on metalopolis was awesome too, great multitasking by both players.


----------



## thiru

Damn SelecT has been playing all day long.. At the end of the day he'll have played against 10 or 11 players, compared to 7 for Idra, who's already finished his bracket.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

I've been watching bits and pieces from the mlg tournament today. I can't wait for the finals with Idra. Ever since I switched to Zerg Ive been supportive of the Zerg players









By the way, Ive been playing some league games today. Im currently ranked 17 in my Silver League, yet in the last match which i played, after I won I checked the rank of my opponent, and he was a Platinum player yet in the loading screen it said "Teams even" lol. Should that not mean i should maybe get promoted to Gold or Platinum?

The ladders are confusing.

Matt


----------



## DoomDash

If you are a big streak or he is on a huge loss streak that happens more often.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox* 
I've been watching bits and pieces from the mlg tournament today. I can't wait for the finals with Idra. Ever since I switched to Zerg Ive been supportive of the Zerg players









By the way, Ive been playing some league games today. Im currently ranked 17 in my Silver League, yet in the last match which i played, after I won I checked the rank of my opponent, and he was a Platinum player yet in the loading screen it said "Teams even" lol. Should that not mean i should maybe get promoted to Gold or Platinum?

The ladders are confusing.

Matt

The "favored" thing is a bit complicated. Both players can actually see the game as "opponent favored".
It could mean you're soon to be promoted or that your opponent was on a losing streak.


----------



## Thedark1337

Quote:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/48665273

Seige tanks take 5 shots to kill a zealot
Seige tanks with +1 weapons take 5 shots to incinerate a zealot (the fourth shot leaves the zealot alive with 1 hp)

- Ouch?

Maruaders take 17 shots to kill a zealot (ALMOST twice as much as a stalker)
Marauders take 18 shots to kill a zealot with +1 armor
Marauders with +1 weapons take 15 shots to kill a zealot

- Protoss players having trouble with marauders don't counter them with pure stalker or pure zealot as zealots get kited while stalkers aren't cost efficient. As you can see zealots can eat alot more punisher grenades before dying. Try to put zealots infront while your stalkers take pot shots at marauders. Upgrades help alot too.
holy chargelots are awesome


----------



## DoomDash

I cannot believe what I'm seeing right now.


----------



## ThumperSD

Select just went 2-0 against Huk. Mismicro during the vortex w/ mothership costed huk the game IMO.

Idra vs Select will be damn good


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
This too... but first I had to install chrome to make it work in general as it just refused to install in opera.

You mean the one on Xel'Naga? The game on metalopolis was awesome too, great multitasking by both players.

IE also works great for the stream. Yes, it was the Xel'Naga one, awesome game









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thedark1337* 
holy chargelots are awesome

Very surprising, 18 shots to take down zealot, nice


----------



## thiru

Huk needs a new trump card lol.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Select just went 2-0 against Huk. Mismicro during the vortex w/ mothership costed huk the game IMO.

Idra vs Select will be damn good

wasn't the crowd actually chanting "SHOW THE GAME!" since the camera was staying on the players and not changing to the game? >_>

Both the commentators and the players thought it was mothership XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
wasn't the crowd actually chanting "SHOW THE GAME!" since the camera was staying on the players and not changing to the game? >_>

Both the commentators and the players thought it was mothership XD

Can't believe I'm missing this







For some odd reason, it's stuck on Now Loading....

Edit: Just connected, says Idra vs. select and that it was Idra that took down HuK. Anyone know where I can rewatch those 2 games? :/


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Can't believe I'm missing this







For some odd reason, it's stuck on Now Loading....

I was initially stuck and now loading, but that was because i said yes to "block content" at the start. Once i noticed that, it was all gravy. Using chrome, btw.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Huk needs a new trump card lol.

MLG needs sound proof barriers like the GSL to prevent the players from knowing something is coming. I really think Huk threw that game away because he realized that even if somehow he beat Select he wasn't going to be able to beat Idra. Not to mention playing all those games in a row must be tiring.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
MLG needs sound proof barriers like the GSL to prevent the players from knowing something is coming. I really think Huk threw that game away because he realized that even if somehow he beat Select he wasn't going to be able to beat Idra. Not to mention playing all those games in a row must be tiring.

SelecT had played against 3 more players than Huk by that point.


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty awful mothership play. I actually think he could have won with it if he played properly. Vortexing his own units? Carelessly letting his mothership get behind? I mean come on.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
MLG needs sound proof barriers like the GSL to prevent the players from knowing something is coming. I really think Huk threw that game away because he realized that even if somehow he beat Select he wasn't going to be able to beat Idra. Not to mention playing all those games in a row must be tiring.

huh, I thought it was Idra that beat Huk








"Idra Advances to Finals after Taking Down Huk
After several 2-1 wins, Idra took down Huk 2-0 in the WB Finals."


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
wasn't the crowd actually chanting "SHOW THE GAME!" since the camera was staying on the players and not changing to the game? >_>

Both the commentators and the players thought it was mothership XD

Not sure but they crowd gave it away as they were chanting "Huk" when he threw that stargate down and continued till that mothership came out


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
MLG needs sound proof barriers like the GSL to prevent the players from knowing something is coming. I really think Huk threw that game away because he realized that even if somehow he beat Select he wasn't going to be able to beat Idra. Not to mention playing all those games in a row must be tiring.

It makes no sense for Huk to not beat Select. Second is better than third.


----------



## BigFan

Starting soon!


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
huh, I thought it was Idra that beat Huk








"Idra Advances to Finals after Taking Down Huk
After several 2-1 wins, Idra took down Huk 2-0 in the WB Finals."

He did...If Huk had won he would've had to beat Idra in two sets of games.

This is already over Idra is just better.


----------



## ThumperSD

Idra is gonna escalate with this new patch


----------



## thiru

Cheers to IdrA's first cup since the retail


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Idra is gonna escalate with this new patch

He didn't even need to use roaches..


----------



## thiru

He went roach hydra against Huk (and probably Kiwikaki too). But he's been going muta ling (bling) a lot against terrans in this tournament.


----------



## BigFan

Idra won, congrats to him. I do feel bad for select those, seems to me that he can't play well against Z. Kinda shows when the mutalisks in the first game completely caught him off guard and his base was unguarded, so, even if he was able to take the exp down, he would've had to go back to his base and the mutalisks would've tore it apart anyways


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
He went roach hydra against Huk (and probably Kiwikaki too). But he's been going muta ling (bling) a lot against terrans in this tournament.

It's a good combo. MMM balls falls fast to sling+bling and mutalisk are great against air units when massed


----------



## DoomDash

Are you guys surprised about him not using Roaches? I know we don't have many Terran players here but muta baneling is probably the hardest thing in the world for Terran right now.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you guys surprised about him not using Roaches? I know we don't have many Terran players here but muta baneling is probably the hardest thing in the world for Terran right now.

Nope.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you guys surprised about him not using Roaches? I know we don't have many Terran players here but muta baneling is probably the hardest thing in the world for Terran right now.

Well, roaches are good for some tanking, but, I agree, it makes games that much easier if you know how to use banelings well and I guess I'm not surprised. BTW, they said that SC2 is over, isn't there supposed to be Huk vs. someone else?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you guys surprised about him not using Roaches? I know we don't have many Terran players here but muta baneling is probably the hardest thing in the world for Terran right now.

No, I was just saying the patch didn't help him too much except for the Medivac nerf, but Idra knew they were coming every time. I don't think a very slight speed increase would've made a difference. Idra caught Select at the perfect timing with those sieges unsieged.

I can't wait for GSL Season 2 on Monday. I'm routing for IdRA!! (Since Tasteless didn't even qualify







)
A sickk matchup would be A Fruit Dealer vs Idra







.


----------



## thiru

No Huk is 3rd and that's it I think.

edit: I'm more disappointed by Tester. I don't know any of the other Korean protoss. Good thing Huk is playing GSL3


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
No Huk is 3rd and that's it I think.

oh, ok, thanks, someone mentioned something about a game, but, yes, I do recall they mentioned that as well


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
No, I was just saying the patch didn't help him too much except for the Medivac nerf, but Idra knew they were coming every time. I don't think a very slight speed increase would've made a difference. Idra caught Select at the perfect timing with those sieges unsieged.

I can't wait for GSL Season 2 on Monday. I'm routing for IdRA!! (Since Tasteless didn't even qualify







)
A sickk matchup would be A Fruit Dealer vs Idra







.

I don't know how good tasteless is, but is in my US division







.

I'm cheering for Boxer, TLO, and NaDa.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
He didn't even need to use roaches..

Im not talking about these specific games. Im talking about the big picture. Better roach range, buff to many zerg buildings etc. as well as the nerf to terran


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
No, I was just saying the patch didn't help him too much except for the Medivac nerf, but Idra knew they were coming every time. I don't think a very slight speed increase would've made a difference. Idra caught Select at the perfect timing with those sieges unsieged.

I can't wait for GSL Season 2 on Monday. I'm routing for IdRA!! (Since Tasteless didn't even qualify







)
A sickk matchup would be A Fruit Dealer vs Idra







.

TBH, I'm kinda surprised at the dropship harass, I mean select used the same strategy twice against Idra and presuming he did it in the previous games, so, why not change it a bit? Maybe make a couple of dropships filled with marines+marauders to take out main or go for vikings along with his marines+tanks. It just seems like he gave his strategy away with the hellion quick attack as well :/
That would be an awesome match-up though. Fruitdealer vs. Idra


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg vs Zerg in the finals would be FTL.

I think the question I'm having right now is what could have select done vs idrA's build. Honestly I'm at a loss. I'm not saying its unbalance but I can't figure it out atm.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
TBH, I'm kinda surprised at the dropship harass, I mean select used the same strategy twice against Idra and presuming he did it in the previous games, so, why not change it a bit? Maybe make a couple of dropships filled with marines+marauders to take out main or go for vikings along with his marines+tanks. It just seems like he gave his strategy away with the hellion quick attack as well :/
That would be an awesome match-up though. Fruitdealer vs. Idra









Select used drop ships in every game during this tourny when ive watched him. He's known for it. It works pretty well. He doesnt always use it to win him games but to distract the opponent so he can do his tech switch/expo/macro etc.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg vs Zerg in the finals would be FTL.

I think the question I'm having right now is what could have select done vs idrA's build. Honestly I'm at a loss. I'm not saying its unbalance but I can't figure it out atm.

Select did say he doesnt have much practice with top level zerg players


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg vs Zerg in the finals would be FTL.

I think the question I'm having right now is what could have select done vs idrA's build. Honestly I'm at a loss. I'm not saying its unbalance but I can't figure it out atm.

Well, the way I look at it is vikings against mutalisks along with marines+marauders+tanks vs. slings+blings. Of course, I can't factor in costs, but, since tanks do splash and marauder slow the bling's speed, it would help a great deal


----------



## DoomDash

Vikings are straight up a waste against Muta. Marauders suck vs lings ( and muta ), and marines obviously get owned by banelings. Thor's get wrecked by magic box muta too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Vikings are straight up a waste against Muta. Marauders suck vs lings ( and muta ), and marines obviously get owned by banelings. Thor's get wrecked by magic box muta too.

Marauders do stink versus lings, but, they are for banelings, to absorb some damage from the ones that weren't taken out by the tanks. Mass mutalisks take down mass vikings, but, a couple vikings versus mutalisks should favour the vikings if I'm not mistaken and might have worked in this case. A hellion or two would've helped against those lings as well as some medivacs to heal the marines/marauders that survived the baneling attack and are still taking down some mutalisks/lings. This is the way I see it however, I don't play terran


----------



## thiru

Mass vikings are a waste and I don't see it happening against a zerg. And even if the terran does, and wipes out the mutas, what's he going to do when the zerg comes back with a huge ground army?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Mass vikings are a waste and I don't see it happening against a zerg. And even if the terran does, and wipes out the mutas, what's he going to do when the zerg comes back with a huge ground army?

This is where I'm at lol. I will just have to continue toying around.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Mass vikings are a waste and I don't see it happening against a zerg. And even if the terran does, and wipes out the mutas, what's he going to do when the zerg comes back with a huge ground army?

Well, in that last game, he had like 9-10 mutalisks. If he had more vikings, he would've been able to pick some off using the marines as backup, since, it would be a bad idea to attack those marines head-on with a medivac overhead. Also, go and take out all those overloads then go off the radar and attack from the side of his main which was undefended, would've done some serious damage, but, again, I don't how well it would work, just a scenarion I came up with


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This is where I'm at lol. I will just have to continue toying around.

Wanna have a game to test out your strat?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This is where I'm at lol. I will just have to continue toying around.

Happened to me as protoss with phoenixes. I'll stick to blink stalkers lol.

edit: mutas don't engage when outnumbered Bigfan.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Wanna have a game to test out your strat?









Maybe when I come up with some ideas.

Raven viking ? lol I'm desperate. Seeker missiles have me interested.


----------



## thiru

Ravens?


----------



## DoomDash

That's all I can come up with so far. Raven's + X.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Happened to me as protoss with phoenixes. I'll stick to blink stalkers lol.

edit: mutas don't engage when outnumbered Bigfan.

Yes, I agree, but, what I meant is he could make approximately same number of vikings to counter the mutalisks and then push with those along with the marines+siege tanks. He could alternatively also go for the mass overloads in his base since he had almost no defense, of course, I only know that because I could see the game in progress, he doesn't









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Maybe when I come up with some ideas.

Raven viking ? lol I'm desperate. Seeker missiles have me interested.

That missile might work but mutalisks can outrun it, however, it'll at least give you the chance to finish off the ground army instead of taking ground+air assault at the same time









For the Swarm!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
That's all I can come up with so far. Raven's + X.

I was suggesting ravens lol, you must have ninja edited your post or I didn't read it completely.
Every one of the raven's abilities can work against mutas. Need to know which one to use and when though.

edit: though the raven probably doesn't have enough energy to deal with repeated harass.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This is where I'm at lol. I will just have to continue toying around.

Vikings are a really good unit. With double starport vikings you could pump out 4 vikings at a time, and or throw in a medivac when needed. 9 Range with almost equal numbers will decimate mutas. Vikings can also be used to pick off ovies and in numbers they do very well vs lings/drones







.

Select lost because he did the exact same build twice in a row, and not to mention Idra was EXPECTING him to do that exact build. I'm not a genius but he wasted a lot of resources with that early hellion..failed harass.

I really think a good timing attack with MM right as the spire was going up would've been a legit strat.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Definitely feeling less early pushes from terrans now, giving me time to fast expand. Not always winning but i'm making them fight for it now~


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Maybe when I come up with some ideas.

Raven viking ? lol I'm desperate. Seeker missiles have me interested.

I don't think a seeker missile could reach mutas. It can barely catch a zealot hit by conc shell grenade. I don't have nearly any experience with TvZ or with terran in general, but what's wrong with hellion, marine, tank, thor + turrets like in famous Drewbie vs Idra game. Also Select's strategy in the second game was fine, he just got outplayed. I bet if he did the same against 99% of zerg players he would have won.


----------



## EmMure

big fan, you up for some games tonight?i need some help learning zerg


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't think a seeker missile could reach mutas. It can barely catch a zealot hit by conc shell grenade. I don't have nearly any experience with TvZ or with terran in general, but what's wrong with hellion, marine, tank, thor + turrets like in famous Drewbie vs Idra game. Also Select's strategy in the second game was fine, he just got outplayed. I bet if he did the same against 99% of zerg players he would have won.


Not if the zerg player sent in 20 banelings with lings, he wouldn't have been able to hold that(marines+tank part). Also, if I recall correctly, before that, he was merely relying on hellions and mutalisks would've decimated those. Nevertheless, it was a great game he played, I would have liked to see him win a game or two against Idra









Just had 2 of the most intensive games ever and both were against zerg. I got spammed with zerglings early on in both, however, in one of them, we went head to head with slings+blings and he denied my exp for a good part of the game. I built a second in my base and was able to repel him enough to make an exp and then I took control. It was great to win as well







Second game was almost a mirror copy of the first one, lings+blings followed by hydras, however, I was able to get an exp up earlier. I was also able to get an in-base hatchery. This game was back and forth, unfortunately, he massed hydras and while I was able to get a decent number of them down, I was running out of minerals and was able to further defend, thus, I lost







I'll post the first one up, maybe some of the zerg players might benefit from it









@EmMure I'll be on tonight. I don't mind giving you some help, just gonna be a little bit later(maybe 30min-1hr or so) since I just finished playing some intense games and really need to relax, lol.


----------



## EmMure

haha no worries


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


haha no worries


I'm going to be just a bit late, but, I'm sure we can get in at least a game, should be enough to at least give you some of the basics, etc....


----------



## EmMure

okie


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Not if the zerg player sent in 20 banelings with lings, he wouldn't have been able to hold that(marines+tank part). Also, if I recall correctly, before that, he was merely relying on hellions and mutalisks would've decimated those.


Well, he wouldn't because against the majority of zerg players Select's helion harassement would have most likely done more damage slowing production down, drops wouldn't be handled that well further cripling zerg's economy, viking could snipe some more overlords delaying mutas even more and in the end it wouldn't even look close. And all the lower level zerg players would then say how early hellion harass + drops + marines + tanks are imba and they don't know what to do about it because muta/ling definitely doesn't work.

Idra played better, had more experience in the matchup and won, not because Select did some major strategical mistakes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Well, he wouldn't because against the majority of zerg players Select's helion harassement would have most likely done more damage slowing production down, drops wouldn't be handled that well further cripling zerg's economy, viking could snipe some more overlords delaying mutas even more and in the end it wouldn't even look close. And all the lower level zerg players would then say how early hellion harass + drops + marines + tanks are imba and they don't know what to do about it because muta/ling definitely doesn't work.

Idra played better, had more experience in the matchup and won, not because Select did some major strategical mistakes.


hmm, I usually put crawlers and make some lings+queen early on for some defense, but, I do see your point. I haven't been hellion harassed yet







Well, the problem is that most just follow a specific strategy instead of developing their own based on the progression of the game. Yes, Idra definitely played better, but, select did pretty well in the second game, especially considering the marine+tank combo was good against ground+mutalisks


----------



## ThatKidNamedRocky

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...scorched-haven

took on 2 guys after my teammate left and won


----------



## xHassassin

Your mom took on two guys.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThatKidNamedRocky*


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...scorched-haven

took on 2 guys after my teammate left and won










Your army composition made me lol.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Your mom took on two guys.


LOL good one, I gota remember that one next time I'm crawling off yours.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *cory1234*   Vikings are a really good unit. With double starport vikings you could pump out 4 vikings at a time, and or throw in a medivac when needed. 9 Range with almost equal numbers will decimate mutas. Vikings can also be used to pick off ovies and in numbers they do very well vs lings/drones







.

Select lost because he did the exact same build twice in a row, and not to mention Idra was EXPECTING him to do that exact build. I'm not a genius but he wasted a lot of resources with that early hellion..failed harass.

I really think a good timing attack with MM right as the spire was going up would've been a legit strat.  
You are obviously not familiar with Vikings vs Muta's in equal numbers lol.









Small glitch I found in a ladder match:

  
 You Tube


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You are obviously not familiar with Vikings vs Muta's in equal numbers lol.









Small glitch I found in a ladder match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS58O1jCXu0


That's.. interesting.

I just played the second most ridiculous game ever (first was a cannon rush that failed before he even put down his first pylon). Again it's a random player who spawns terran and builds his base outside on my natural on Delta Quadrant (except for his first barracks which is why I didn't suspect it until I sent my 2nd scout).

He expanded and teched for tanks. When I broke out (after expanding on internal base) he had 2 bunkers with 6 marines in it. _That's it_ (I had like 15 stalkers/zealots, a couple of sentries and an immortal. The rest of his marines and his one tank were at his base because I used a warp prism to distract him.
He even expanded when he had like 15 SCVs but at the end of the game I still had twice as many and for some reason he didn't get orbital command fast so his income was abysmal.

I think at the beginning he wanted to do a proxy barracks/bunker at my internal expand but I saw his SCV.
How do noobs like him get to gold?

edit: not a serious question.
Also when am I going to be promoted to gold







got 11 win streak and 80% wins in the last 20 games


----------



## poroboszcz

Can't wait for tomorrow's GSL: FruitDealer, Genius, Maka, Inca and Boxer. Awesome.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Can't wait for tomorrow's GSL: FruitDealer, Genius, Maka, Inca and Boxer. Awesome.

Ooh awesome









Just played a game against a terran who went 3rax all in and pushed with 8 marines and 6 SCVs (left 4 at base) against my 2 zealots 1 stalker 1 sentry....

FF + chronoboosted warpgates = fail rush... He didn't even know what to target after killing my first few troops, killed a forward pylon and 4 probes instead of going for the pylons that were actually powering stuff (killing 4 probes is kinda stupid when he had 5 and I had 30).

Silly noobs. This guy had like 300 games in gold.


----------



## Wishmaker

No more sig rigs but I have something to keep me company







.


----------



## sora1607

FruitDealer is my idol. Him and IdrA. I learn my Zerg builds from those 2. They are amazing!
@thiru: it sounds like the dude who rushed me with the same build. This guy however was plat and it was a well done rush. I pulled out on the match somehow. I'm certain he got plat because most people can't handle the rush. These rushers are really just noobs. If you can handle the rush, it's free win from there.

To the guy who never got hellions harassed: you are lucky







. A good hellions harass is very deadly. If you're busy droning and don't have a spine crawler up, your drones are gonna be fried


----------



## DoomDash

It's funny because my favorite player is Boxer but I prefer macro to micro ( his weaker point ). Dito with TLO.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora1607* 
FruitDealer is my idol. Him and IdrA. I learn my Zerg builds from those 2. They are amazing!
@thiru: it sounds like the dude who rushed me with the same build. This guy however was plat and it was a well done rush. I pulled out on the match somehow. I'm certain he got plat because most people can't handle the rush. These rushers are really just noobs. If you can handle the rush, it's free win from there.

To the guy who never got hellions harassed: you are lucky







. A good hellions harass is very deadly. If you're busy droning and don't have a spine crawler up, your drones are gonna be fried

Yeah if he had tried to kill the pylons to de-power my cybernetics core or a warpgate (don't remember how my base was set up) he might have won.

Speaking of hellion harass, I just played against a terran who teched (I saw a factory with tech lab and a starport so I thought banshees) to blue flame hellion and dropped 4 of them in my base while I had my army halfway to his, so I lost about 20 probes out of 30 (he had 20 at this point).
So I go back directly to his base, bust his wall, destroy his economy and then his base and then his other base that he rebuilt.

Too many people in the lower leagues relying on gimmicky strategies and don't actually bother to learn the fundamentals to be able to back it up.


----------



## DoomDash

I wish MLG was near me at one point. I can actually play 2 games at it pretty competently.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora1607* 
FruitDealer is my idol. Him and IdrA. I learn my Zerg builds from those 2. They are amazing!
@thiru: it sounds like the dude who rushed me with the same build. This guy however was plat and it was a well done rush. I pulled out on the match somehow. I'm certain he got plat because most people can't handle the rush. These rushers are really just noobs. If you can handle the rush, it's free win from there.

To the guy who never got hellions harassed: you are lucky







. A good hellions harass is very deadly. If you're busy droning and don't have a spine crawler up, your drones are gonna be fried

I almost always lay down 2 crawlers along with making a queen and some zerglings before expanding, so, I'm pretty I would be able to handle it. However, if you almost have no defense, then I can see why it can be deadly









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah if he had tried to kill the pylons to de-power my cybernetics core or a warpgate (don't remember how my base was set up) he might have won.

Speaking of hellion harass, I just played against a terran who teched (I saw a factory with tech lab and a starport so I thought banshees) to blue flame hellion and dropped 4 of them in my base while I had my army halfway to his, so I lost about 20 probes out of 30 (he had 20 at this point).
So I go back directly to his base, bust his wall, destroy his economy and then his base and then his other base that he rebuilt.

Too many people in the lower leagues relying on gimmicky strategies and don't actually bother to learn the fundamentals to be able to back it up.

Too many do, bronze protoss seem to be void ray spam or MMM for terran. As for zerg, no clue







What I don't get is why you left your base undefended? I mean you should always leave some defense, even if just a zealot or two with a stalker or two(for air) incase of any attacks, so, that you can at least defend while you make more units/your army returns









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I wish MLG was near me at one point. I can actually play 2 games at it pretty competently.

What makes you say that, although, I do have to admit that select wasn't as good as I thought in his first game. He mostly tried to hellion harass, failed even after using a dropship then tried to make use of the platform to shell idra's expansion just as Idra made 7-8 mutalisks. He left his base defenseless. Had idra ignored his thor and 3-4 marines and went straight for his base, he could have wiped his SCVs and structures even before the thor would have gotten close to his base. I think leaving your base totally defenseless is a bad idea all around which is why it was a bit shocking that the pros seem to do this fairly often. BTW, didn't someone mention Select was only in Plat, but, then how come he is was in MLG


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I almost always lay down 2 crawlers along with making a queen and some zerglings before expanding, so, I'm pretty I would be able to handle it. However, if you almost have no defense, then I can see why it can be deadly









Too many do, bronze protoss seem to be void ray spam or MMM for terran. As for zerg, no clue







What I don't get is why you left your base undefended? I mean you should always leave some defense, even if just a zealot or two with a stalker or two(for air) incase of any attacks, so, that you can at least defend while you make more units/your army returns









What makes you say that, although, I do have to admit that select wasn't as good as I thought in his first game. He mostly tried to hellion harass, failed even after using a dropship then tried to make use of the platform to shell idra's expansion just as Idra made 7-8 mutalisks. He left his base defenseless. Had idra ignored his thor and 3-4 marines and went straight for his base, he could have wiped his SCVs and structures even before the thor would have gotten close to his base. I think leaving your base totally defenseless is a bad idea all around which is why it was a bit shocking that the pros seem to do this fairly often. BTW, didn't someone mention Select was only in Plat, but, then how come he is was in MLG









MMM spam gets you into diamond.

:<


----------



## DoomDash

Select was in Diamond for ages? He is 2300 Diamond with a 70% w/l ratio.


----------



## srsdude

Cannon rushing is the only method that hasn't been nerfed so far
Blizz really screwed up terran because now I have to build a factory to upgrade reaper speed, and I can't build barracks without a supply depot.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
BTW, didn't someone mention Select was only in Plat, but, then how come he is was in MLG









Playing in MLG doesn't necessarily mean you're one of the top players in NA. Despite that, assuming this is the right SeleCT, he's far from platinum









http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/SeleCT

MLG sells player passes for $60; anyone who wants to throw down the money can play. They reserve something like 16 spots for the top finishers from the previous tournament, but it's not like they grabbed the top 64 people from the NA Top 200 list and threw together a tournament bracket. It's generally high-level play (I don't know about you, but I'm not going to spend $60 + transportation + hotel if I'm not confident of a top 8), but it's not exactly GSL.


----------



## DoomDash

Cannon rushing was nerfed. I don't remember when but the Forge build time was greatly increased.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Too many do, bronze protoss seem to be void ray spam or MMM for terran. As for zerg, no clue







What I don't get is why you left your base undefended? I mean you should always leave some defense, even if just a zealot or two with a stalker or two(for air) incase of any attacks, so, that you can at least defend while you make more units/your army returns









Like I said I was expecting a banshee rush, not a hellion drop. So as my army left I warped in one or two stalkers outside the base to intercept any banshees but instead the hellions went past them and raped my probes. I also moved the probes towards my expansion instead of towards my stalkers, which was a bad move.

Even if my 2 stalkers were on the mineral line, he would still have made almost the same damage since he basically wiped out 20 probes in 2 attacks with his 4 blue flame hellions.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Select was in Diamond for ages? He is 2300 Diamond with a 70% w/l ratio.

oh, I see. I just recall they mentioned something about him being in plat yesterday at the MLG









Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Playing in MLG doesn't necessarily mean you're one of the top players in NA. Despite that, assuming this is the right SeleCT, he's far from platinum









http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/SeleCT

MLG sells player passes for $60; anyone who wants to throw down the money can play. They reserve something like 16 spots for the top finishers from the previous tournament, but it's not like they grabbed the top 64 people from the NA Top 200 list and threw together a tournament bracket. It's generally high-level play (I don't know about you, but I'm not going to spend $60 + transportation + hotel if I'm not confident of a top 8), but it's not exactly GSL.

oh, ok, I thought that it was pretty limited to top players









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Like I said I was expecting a banshee rush, not a hellion drop. So as my army left I warped in one or two stalkers outside the base to intercept any banshees but instead the hellions went past them and raped my probes. I also moved the probes towards my expansion instead of towards my stalkers, which was a bad move.

Even if my 2 stalkers were on the mineral line, he would still have made almost the same damage since he basically wiped out 20 probes in 2 attacks with his 4 blue flame hellions.

I see your point, assumptions have cost me a lot of games


----------



## DoomDash

I'd enter the MLG for fun. I'd be in for SCII and Tekken 6. I used to travel around the mid-west playing Tekken.


----------



## EmMure

**** terran seriously,takes like no skill at all.they need to nerf battle cruisers


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
they need to nerf battle cruisers

This is where you lose all creditability. Perhaps the problem is something you're lacking?

and if you'd really like this no skilled Terran player can play you with his side races he rarely plays and show you his lack of skills







.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Marauders need nerfing a billion trillion years before battlecruisers do


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This is where you lose all creditability. Perhaps the problem is something you're lacking?

and if you'd really like this no skilled Terran player can play you with his side races he rarely plays and show you his lack of skills







.

not even lol when 2 battle's tear thou 5 corruptors in a few seconds something is wrong


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
**** terran seriously,takes like no skill at all.they need to nerf battle cruisers

not really, all you need to do is mass corruptors. I look at it in the ratio of 3 corruptors for one BC. 600hp vs. 550hp, 60 damage vs. x damage(not sure how many they fire, but, I think it's 6 or 8 per shot). Corruptors rule!!!!!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'd enter the MLG for fun. I'd be in for SCII and Tekken 6. I used to travel around the mid-west playing Tekken.

So would I, however, I don't plan to travel far away from home for a tournament that I might not be able to get far into which is why I would get really good with Z before I do such a thing, but, life takes priority









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Marauders need nerfing a billion trillion years before battlecruisers do









lol, well, maybe a slight nerf but some slings+blings take out marauders pretty fast


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea im still waiting for that marauder nerf. That's the only one I really want. It would be nice if they would put a limit to how many SCVs can repair a PF too. It's ******ed when there's 20 SCVs and 2 mules repairing a PF against a decent sized army.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
not even lol when 2 battle's tear thou 5 corruptors in a few seconds something is wrong

hmm, did you focus fire because getting them to randomly attack the battlecruisers won't take them down. You should at least be able to take one down and probably 1/2 hp, not to mention possibly take down both, but, 3:1 ratio for corruptors to bc and carriers


----------



## spiderm0nkey

I know I'm really late to the StarCraft 2 bandwagon, but that was an INCREDIBLE trailer. The best trailer I've ever seen, regardless of whether it's for a movie or game. The trailer alone is tempting me into getting this game!


----------



## pcNub

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
not even lol when 2 battle's tear thou 5 corruptors in a few seconds something is wrong

5 corruptors should be able to own 2 bcs, unupgraded and etc. Usually, the zerg player should be able to macro up some more units too considering how fast it takes them to pump out units. AND corruptors have bonus damage against massive units.

I have to say that marauders are a little one sided when it comes to TvP, but otherwise, they're okay...
Yeah, I play terran so I'm biased, but considering the latest nerfs all the OPness of the terran has been seriously dumbed down.


----------



## Tchernobyl

If anything, marauder cost is what I'd change. The unit has its ups and downs (more ups than downs really), but feels entirely too cheap for what it does. I'd really like a gas price hike to 50 gas, but that might be a tad brutal.


----------



## DoomDash

Marauders are fine, and will probably never be changed. The most I can see happening is 100/100 Concussive shells again. I don't have a problem with that either. People have been *****ing about Marauders since early beta, but Blizzard has never changed them ( besides once for conc shell to be researchable ), and probably because they know a lot more than we do. Some idiots want Marauders stim ability removed. Lol that's the dumbest **** I've ever heard.

Honestly a Stalker is more well rounded, even if it costs a tad more.


----------



## EmMure

big,yes i was focus firing and no i wasnt yamata'd


----------



## pcNub

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
big,yes i was focus firing and no i wasnt yamata'd

I'm sure you would've at least damaged the bcs enough so that you could pump out a couple more corruptors to kill them. I almost never go bcs in TvZ because of how easy it is for a zerg player to destroy bcs which are ridiculously expensive.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah unless you completely catch the Z off guard ( poor scouting ), BC's are pretty easily countered by Corruptors.


----------



## pcNub

Another thing, not to bash or anything, most of the time, my games in TvZ will end before I can even bother affording to go bcs (even though I don't go bcs), so I suggest owning the terran player before they get bcs.


----------



## EmMure

it wasnt completely off guard,and i didnt have more corrs coming i was mild build of ultra's


----------



## DoomDash

Well that explains everything. Ultra's don't attack BC's... did you not scout first?


----------



## EmMure

i try haha im not great at zerg,but its redic how fast a seige can destory my ground before i can get into his pace the defense terran has is insane,i supply blockd him for awhile but everytime,id try to push id get crushed and while i rebuild what i lose he can exp abit and get **** up while he isnt really losing anything

this was towards late game,i had 2 exp's up and was massing and teching when ever i had enough gas


----------



## pcNub

Yeah, in SC2, scouting is like...utterly important. Sacrifice overlords, get overlord speed, etc. It's key to know your opponents army composition and what they're teching for, then you can just counter whatever they have.

I get utterly bumraped by zerg players, so I'm taking from experience lol.

If the terran is turtling, just out-expand him. When you have 3 more bases than him, you'll utterly destroy anything. Don't go for his base, just outmacro him. He won't survive long if he's staying in his base with a couple of siege tanks. Eventually you can simply tech ultras/mass broodlords-corruptors, etc.


----------



## EmMure

i kept trying damn turrets ,it was a crap map thou also bad spawns


----------



## DoomDash

Overseers with ... I'm having a blank... those little crawling things.


----------



## EmMure

changelings


----------



## DoomDash

That's it. Just leave one at a corner of his base that he isn't at and repeatedly drop them.


----------



## Heret|c

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pcNub* 
Yeah, in SC2, scouting is like...utterly important. Sacrifice overlords, get overlord speed, etc. It's key to know your opponents army composition and what they're teching for, then you can just counter whatever they have.

I get utterly bumraped by zerg players, so I'm taking from experience lol.

If the terran is turtling, just out-expand him. When you have 3 more bases than him, you'll utterly destroy anything. Don't go for his base, just outmacro him. He won't survive long if he's staying in his base with a couple of siege tanks. Eventually you can simply tech ultras/mass broodlords-corruptors, etc.

I love when zerg players waste their resource on expand, I just keep building more Marines and Marauders, then drop ship and GG.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
That's it. Just leave one at a corner of his base that he isn't at and repeatedly drop them.

Definitely a good idea. I try to do this often but lately I've been forgetting about it and usually just use the towers+lings near his base for scouting, not the greatest for army composition but I can at least see when he plans to attack, etc.... to build my counters


----------



## pcNub

Lol have fun doing that with the new patch.


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
I love when zerg players waste their resource on expand, I just keep building more Marines and Marauders, then drop ship and GG.

that is honestly such a ignorant statement


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2* 
I love when zerg players waste their resource on expand, I just keep building more Marines and Marauders, then drop ship and GG.

lol, umm, all I have to do is place a couple of spore crawlers + some banelings burrowed around my hatchery and then make them explode when your marines+marauders walk on top of them. Then I'll mass slings+blings, bust your base wide open and completely overwhelm your army







In my last game against a zerg, we were constantly trading blows with 30 slings and blings, so, I know how much damage those can do to your structures especially if I open a worm full of banelings right near your cc. By the time you realize what is happening, your cc is gone, so are your SCV and since you didn't expand, it's GG


----------



## Tchernobyl

Ignore modern warfare, he's been trolling this thread for a hundred pages now


----------



## EmMure

hey fan,i used sling and blings today for a few games won some pretty quickly


----------



## sora1607

Quote:



Originally Posted by *|\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2*


I love when zerg players waste their resource on expand, I just keep building more Marines and Marauders, then drop ship and GG.


Lol must be a terrible zerg who can't even keep up with the drops. I love turtling terran. Allows me to just build econ like crazy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


hey fan,i used sling and blings today for a few games won some pretty quickly


Congrats







They are pretty good against MMM ball if you have enough of them, otherwise, your opponent can just kite them which is also why getting the speed upgrades is a good idea









Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


Lol must be a terrible zerg who can't even keep up with the drops. I love turtling terran. Allows me to just build econ like crazy.


Turtling terrans are great. They starve themselves and if you scout enough, you'll get an idea of what they are going for. It'll also allow you to expand like wild fire across the map.

Just had a game versus a terran on delta quadrant. Expanded early on, teched up, but, kept scouting his base using zergling at front incase he makes a move and changelings from overseer near his back. Discovered he's going for MMM, so, I get banelings+slings and watch him. Get some mutalisks, try for a worm, no success and then he goes for a drop so I'm running from one side of my base to the next but no harm done other than a drone or two. Anyways, discover he has gold exp, take that out with slings+blings for MMM ball and mutalisks for PF. Game proceeds, I make more mutalisks and go against his group of vikings and then I tech to brood lords. It was really great having 10 of them just taking out everything he had. He attacked with vikings, mutalisks took them down. Tried a banshee attack on main. I think took my hive, but, also took them down. Eventually, he quit and the games froze afterwards!







I lost the replay for one of the best games I've played, since, I was spreading creep, scouting throughout, building counters, etc... so disappointing, really getting sick of it!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Turtling Toss aren't bad either









Had one who completely (or enough so that only a zealot could go through, plus he had plenty of cannons) walled himself off, so I figured immediately that he was going void rays. An overseer later confirmed this, lol'ing as I managed to contaminate a stargate twice.

Meanwhile I was building a bunch of hydras and spreading creep throughout my base, so I had plenty of time to defend against the few he sent to me. Used an overseer to poop a changeling, which i then approached up to his wall and used its vision to snipe the pylons with my hydras. as he lost his wall and the zealots he had defending, he quit









Admittedly he'd been lagging quite badly the entire game, but still~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Turtling Toss aren't bad either









Had one who completely (or enough so that only a zealot could go through, plus he had plenty of cannons) walled himself off, so I figured immediately that he was going void rays. An overseer later confirmed this, lol'ing as I managed to contaminate a stargate twice.

Meanwhile I was building a bunch of hydras and spreading creep throughout my base, so I had plenty of time to defend against the few he sent to me. Used an overseer to poop a changeling, which i then approached up to his wall and used its vision to snipe the pylons with my hydras. as he lost his wall and the zealots he had defending, he quit









Admittedly he'd been lagging quite badly the entire game, but still~


lol, I just lost a game today because I didn't scout enough and my opponent had 4 VRs with his army(stalkers+zealots). I took them out but lost my lair and even those I built it again, he attacked with phenoixes and more VRs along with some stalkers and zealots. Took his ground out but his phenoixes and VRs were too much for my mutalisks+2-3 corruptors = GG


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Congrats







They are pretty good against MMM ball if you have enough of them, otherwise, your opponent can just kite them which is also why getting the speed upgrades is a good idea









Turtling terrans are great. They starve themselves and if you scout enough, you'll get an idea of what they are going for. It'll also allow you to expand like wild fire across the map.

Just had a game versus a terran on delta quadrant. Expanded early on, teched up, but, kept scouting his base using zergling at front incase he makes a move and changelings from overseer near his back. Discovered he's going for MMM, so, I get banelings+slings and watch him. Get some mutalisks, try for a worm, no success and then he goes for a drop so I'm running from one side of my base to the next but no harm done other than a drone or two. Anyways, discover he has gold exp, take that out with slings+blings for MMM ball and mutalisks for PF. Game proceeds, I make more mutalisks and go against his group of vikings and then I tech to brood lords. It was really great having 10 of them just taking out everything he had. He attacked with vikings, mutalisks took them down. Tried a banshee attack on main. I think took my hive, but, also took them down. Eventually, he quit and the games froze afterwards!







I lost the replay for one of the best games I've played, since, I was spreading creep, scouting throughout, building counters, etc... so disappointing, really getting sick of it!

You got to zerg tier 3 against an MMM play? I think your opponent was probably a little slow on the draw. From what I've seen MMM works best against Z if it forces a climactic showdown earlier than tier 3. IMO MMM also shouldn't expand beyond the natural expo. MMM is not a strategy designed for a long game or a techy game or risky expos. Z is at a terrible disadvantage vs. MMM without at least one expo, so MMM should aggressively and promptly attack all Z expos and make sure the T expo is easily defensible. If Z goes tech that should be like a dog whistle for an MMM player saying "ATTACK NOW". He probably shouldn't have screwed around with vikings either. That just detracted from the game-ending potential of the T ground army.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Turtling Toss aren't bad either









Had one who completely (or enough so that only a zealot could go through, plus he had plenty of cannons) walled himself off, so I figured immediately that he was going void rays. An overseer later confirmed this, lol'ing as I managed to contaminate a stargate twice.

Meanwhile I was building a bunch of hydras and spreading creep throughout my base, so I had plenty of time to defend against the few he sent to me. Used an overseer to poop a changeling, which i then approached up to his wall and used its vision to snipe the pylons with my hydras. as he lost his wall and the zealots he had defending, he quit









Admittedly he'd been lagging quite badly the entire game, but still~


I've figured out that cheesy wall-off plus void ray tactic. It's ridiculously vulnerable to a fast one-base tier 1.5 assault. As soon as I see that stupid wall I quickly pump out a big roach/sling/bling force. The blings crash the wall and then I'm in their base. The slings run straight for the mineral line and the roaches attack the P warriors. I keep funneling in lings and roaches until the job is finished. It's a short game. A lot of my recent victories have been of this type.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Not sure I could have done that in this case, the buildings were pretty well layered behind each other. I went hydras because they counter voids so ridiculously well, and I had enough creep to cover both my hatcheries (with a third coming.. was on delta quadrant too i think?). So when he tried to get my third hatchery, my hydras shoo'd him off. 
When he came in for my main one, I already had a spore crawler and my queen hitting his voids, and my hydras finished the job. The 10 or so I had were sent forward as mentioned above and sniped his pylons, while more were built in the base in case of surprise voids, but by then he quit.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Not sure I could have done that in this case, the buildings were pretty well layered behind each other. I went hydras because they counter voids so ridiculously well, and I had enough creep to cover both my hatcheries (with a third coming.. was on delta quadrant too i think?). So when he tried to get my third hatchery, my hydras shoo'd him off. 
When he came in for my main one, I already had a spore crawler and my queen hitting his voids, and my hydras finished the job. The 10 or so I had were sent forward as mentioned above and sniped his pylons, while more were built in the base in case of surprise voids, but by then he quit.


If P has spent big on cannons that actually works in your favor after you bring down the wall. Just have reinforcements run right past the cannons. Your troops will take damage and some might die but most will get through. Slaughter all the probes and destroy the stargates. It doesn't matter how damaged your troops are if P can't finish them off. As long as they have one hit point they can keep wrecking stuff in the P base.


----------



## sora1607

Voids just got nerfed. They should be pretty easy to kill these days. 2 queens and couple of hydras well-microed should be able to take down void rush. I hate how most of my matches are not ZvZ, my worst matchup.


----------



## EmMure

void are still not some easy ass unit to deal with lol they still do alot of dmg


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think ppl also need to realize that if they have void rays, they have no ground units.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL Season 2!!!!!!


----------



## Wishmaker

I suck so badly at this game







. I get pwned by the pc on hard







.


----------



## DoomDash

I find it easy


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I find it easy











Try playing the thing on a 12 inch laptop, with a bluetooth travel mouse made for clicking and not moving


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Try playing the thing on a 12 inch laptop, with a bluetooth travel mouse made for clicking and not moving

















Well that sounds crappy







.


----------



## NorCa

SlayerS Boxer !!

Victim #1 Happiness: 1 - 0


----------



## DoomDash

!!! I know. <3 boxer.


----------



## NorCa

hahhaha omg @ boxer, i love this

SlayerS Boxer !!

Victim #1 Happiness: 2 - 0. rip


----------



## DoomDash

Yes







.


----------



## thiru

What did I miss? any games left?


----------



## DoomDash

You missed all of them. Pretty predictable results.


----------



## NorCa

WHAT DID U MISS???


----------



## thiru

Dang it.


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1150

Gomtv has some vids


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1150

Gomtv has some vids










Oh cool I didn't know it'd be up already and free.

edit: oh crap only the first game of each match up is free








Doomdash you got another magic link to VODs?


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh cool I didn't know it'd be up already and free.


just the first match of each set it seems, which sucks :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You got to zerg tier 3 against an MMM play? I think your opponent was probably a little slow on the draw. From what I've seen MMM works best against Z if it forces a climactic showdown earlier than tier 3. IMO MMM also shouldn't expand beyond the natural expo. MMM is not a strategy designed for a long game or a techy game or risky expos. Z is at a terrible disadvantage vs. MMM without at least one expo, so MMM should aggressively and promptly attack all Z expos and make sure the T expo is easily defensible. If Z goes tech that should be like a dog whistle for an MMM player saying "ATTACK NOW". He probably shouldn't have screwed around with vikings either. That just detracted from the game-ending potential of the T ground army.


Yes, I did. I was actually rather slow as well and I could have gotten there faster, but, I was working on my macro and getting some defense. He actually had 2 exp+natural. He took an exp beside his base(the one with destructible rocks) and took a gold one using PF. His big mistake was not making missile turrets to defend his PFs from my mutalisks. I also had three bases and was pumping troops like crazy. I don't agree with you, MMM can be used anytime during the game, although, it's better early on, but, if you watched selecT vs. kikiwaki(sp?), he was using MMM throughout the game and took down all 4 colossus+zealots+stalker army quite easily. It's only risky mid to end game since marines can hit air, but, not marauders, so, any air units such as banshees, mutalisks, VRs, carriers, bc, etc.... can easily take it out, but, on the ground, it can be hard to stop without storm, blings, FG, etc....







Also, I teched up to tier 2 and mutalisks and had almost three bases at this point even before I was attacked. His biggest mistake was trying to use dropships which carry only so many units which meant that my slings+blings easily overwhelmed his forces. Also, he wasn't scouting much from what I could tell and didn't continually try to harass other than the dropship. When I saw he had that gold expo with an MMM ball and a PF, I decided to take the plunge to take it down otherwise I was trying for a nice worm behind his cc. After taking his expo down, I took down some of his SCV for his other expo but retreated when his vikings came. Also, personally, I believe you can survive against MMM ball on your natural. The key is to build a hatchery in your base and to mass slings+blings to counter his first attack then expand afterwards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sora1607*


Voids just got nerfed. They should be pretty easy to kill these days. 2 queens and couple of hydras well-microed should be able to take down void rush. I hate how most of my matches are not ZvZ, my worst matchup.


I find queens are pretty weak vs. VR. They only do, what 9 damage and only do so much before a VR fully charges and wipes the queen out. Mutalisks with their speed work best against VRs for me at least









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


void are still not some easy ass unit to deal with lol they still do alot of dmg


Agree, but, they definitely got a bit easier to deal with.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I think ppl also need to realize that if they have void rays, they have no ground units.


You'll be surprised. Last game I played against protoss, he had 4 VRs supported by zealots+stalkers. I was able to take his ground army just fine, but, wasn't ready for VRs and thus I lost









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh cool I didn't know it'd be up already and free.

edit: oh crap only the first game of each match up is free








Doomdash you got another magic link to VODs?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


just the first match of each set it seems, which sucks :/


Too bad


----------



## thiru

I just got zergling rushed by a platinum random player. I was waiting for the zerglings to wall off with a cannon, but they didn't come so I thought hey maybe he backed off (since I scouted his early pool)... bad mistake, they got in and got at least 5 probes. Then he sniped my expand (didn't have time to cancel ugh).

But even though I lost probes and 400 minerals in the destroyed nexus, my economy was superior to his again within minutes and I still destroyed him (fool didn't expand a 2nd time).

The funny part is that when I started winning he said (and I replied):
-I hate colossus
-MOAR SIX POOL
-LOL that wasn't a 6 pool
-10 pool whatever it screwed your economy
-not really

I checked the replay and it was a 7 pool


----------



## DoomDash

Last time I got the VODs on the forums here: http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/

but it looks like they are down for some maintenance.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Last time I got the VODs on the forums here: http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/

but it looks like they are down for some maintenance.


Thanks I'll check that out when it's back online.

I swear there's something fishy in the ladder. People cheese or use gimmicky tactics in bronze, that's a given, but I didn't see ANY of that in silver. Now that I'm playing against gold and platinum every 3rd player is doing it. Just got DT rushed.

I scouted his walling off so I thought void rays and I busted his backdoor rock in Shakuras and I see a Dark shrine instead :/ Retreated with FF, built cannons but not before he destroyed my nexus but I had an expansion so I won anyway.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Last time I got the VODs on the forums here: http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/

but it looks like they are down for some maintenance.


Someone needs to be the hero who uploads the HD VODs..This waiting is tempting my credit card







.

Edit: Found the videos, but they aren't HD: http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/b/272102338


----------



## thiru

Awesome!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Someone needs to be the hero who uploads the HD VODs..This waiting is tempting my credit card







.

Edit: Found the videos, but they aren't HD: http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/b/272102338


Thanks, while not HD, they aren't as blocky as the GomTV ones


----------



## deanlewandowski

Just played my first games since the 1.2 patch.
Lots more ZvZ matchups. I guess people are thinking that Zerg is a much better race with the upgrades it got.

Beat a Terran player at which point he told me
"Blizzard made Zerg invincible so you pretty much suck."
Then proceeded to call me a bunch of names and insult my mother LOL.
I told him to try expanding to more than one base next time, since I had 3 Hatch with about 25 drones each when I destroyed his Bio Ball.


----------



## DoomDash

I hate Zerg.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I hate Zerg.


It looks like you only like TvT then









Btw I've heard a nice BM trick how to force a stalemate against zerg. If you're on 2-3 bases, but you know you're losing, you can pump a ****loads of vikings + 7-8 ravens and fly into the corner with your CC. With PDDs zerg won't be able to kill you even if he made 200/200 corruptors


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It looks like you only like TvT then









Btw I've heard a nice BM trick how to force a stalemate against zerg. If you're on 2-3 bases, but you know you're losing, you can pump a ****loads of vikings + 7-8 ravens and fly into the corner with your CC. With PDDs zerg won't be able to kill you even if he made 200/200 corruptors










Hahahah

That would work against terran too. Except Yamato gun


----------



## Wishmaker

Some pretty nice films. Thanks for the links guys. I can put my copy on a shelf and forget I bought it







. I will end up playing with 5 year olds if I start multi player







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
It looks like you only like TvT then









Btw I've heard a nice BM trick how to force a stalemate against zerg. If you're on 2-3 bases, but you know you're losing, you can pump a ****loads of vikings + 7-8 ravens and fly into the corner with your CC. With PDDs zerg won't be able to kill you even if he made 200/200 corruptors









I do like TvT, and I like TvP. I feel confident in those 2 match ups. Protoss doesn't bother me at all.

Nice trick.

Playing on my second account ( Diamond ), 8 win streak against all 1000-1400~ players. My MMR must be through the roof on that one.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Just played my first games since the 1.2 patch.
Lots more ZvZ matchups. I guess people are thinking that Zerg is a much better race with the upgrades it got.

Beat a Terran player at which point he told me
"Blizzard made Zerg invincible so you pretty much suck."
Then proceeded to call me a bunch of names and insult my mother LOL.
I told him to try expanding to more than one base next time, since I had 3 Hatch with about 25 drones each when I destroyed his Bio Ball.









Wait, you had 3 hatchs and ONLY 25 drones? or was it 25 drones PER hatch?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Wait, you had 3 hatchs and ONLY 25 drones? or was it 25 drones PER hatch?

Yeah per. He wrote "each"


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Just played my first games since the 1.2 patch.
Lots more ZvZ matchups. I guess people are thinking that Zerg is a much better race with the upgrades it got.

Beat a Terran player at which point he told me
"Blizzard made Zerg invincible so you pretty much suck."
Then proceeded to call me a bunch of names and insult my mother LOL.
I told him to try expanding to more than one base next time, since I had 3 Hatch with about 25 drones each when I destroyed his Bio Ball.









TBH, the hp was buildings was needed, the same with the roach range and stalkers shouldn't be able to blink with FG. While they can change a game, they aren't as big of changes as everyone is making them out to be









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I do like TvT, and I like TvP. I feel confident in those 2 match ups. Protoss doesn't bother me at all.

Nice trick.

Playing on my second account ( Diamond ), 8 win streak against all 1000-1400~ players. My MMR must be through the roof on that one.

ah, so, looks like someone hates TvsZ now









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Some pretty nice films. Thanks for the links guys. I can put my copy on a shelf and forget I bought it







. I will end up playing with 5 year olds if I start multi player







.

Don't like SC2 and what films, you mean the GSL games?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
It looks like you only like TvT then









Btw I've heard a nice BM trick how to force a stalemate against zerg. If you're on 2-3 bases, but you know you're losing, you can pump a ****loads of vikings + 7-8 ravens and fly into the corner with your CC. With PDDs zerg won't be able to kill you even if he made 200/200 corruptors









Interesting trick, but, doesn't PDD only take so many hits(1 per 10 energy), so, with 200/200 corruptors, they will eventually get drained of energy and even if Z loses all his corruptors by attacking the ravens first followed by the vikings, he can rebuild his army rather fast and even use hydras since there is no threat from vikings while still in the air


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Interesting trick, but, doesn't PDD only take so many hits(1 per 10 energy), so, with 200/200 corruptors, they will eventually get drained of energy and even if Z loses all his corruptors by attacking the ravens first followed by the vikings, he can rebuild his army rather fast and even use hydras since there is no threat from vikings while still in the air









It's a BM trick, it's not meant to win you games it's meant to make your opponent rage and waste time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's a BM trick, it's not meant to win you games it's meant to make your opponent rage and waste time.

oh I see, lol, personally, if that was me, I'll chew away slowly at his units until he has nothing left


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I do like TvT, and I like TvP. I feel confident in those 2 match ups. Protoss doesn't bother me at all.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I hate Protoss.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I hate Zerg.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Interesting trick, but, doesn't PDD only take so many hits(1 per 10 energy), so, with 200/200 corruptors, they will eventually get drained of energy and even if Z loses all his corruptors by attacking the ravens first followed by the vikings, he can rebuild his army rather fast and even use hydras since there is no threat from vikings while still in the air









A friend of mine did it to someone from mTw and scored a win. I'd imagine 16 PDDs are able to hold for a while while your vikings score free kills.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Last time I got the VODs on the forums here: http://www.edgeofnowhere.cc/

but it looks like they are down for some maintenance.

I checked that site out, and it said there is a lawsuit against them for Starcraft 2? I remember reading that Blizzard was suing the makers of hacks. Maybe these guys had something to do with that? Or maybe it was from the GOM vids.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah per. He wrote "each"

man, I must be really tired if i cant even read. Cant wait to get home... and play some starcraft 2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I checked that site out, and it said there is a lawsuit against them for Starcraft 2? I remember reading that Blizzard was suing the makers of hacks. Maybe these guys had something to do with that? Or maybe it was from the GOM vids.

I don't think there was a suit against them...? IDK. I hope not cause they did a good job putting up those VOD's.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 









Just hate Zerg now







.


----------



## thiru

Yay today I broke 1000 points and got my new Phoenix protrait


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yay today I broke 1000 points and got my new Phoenix protrait









You still playing on NA servers even once in a while or have you went back to laddering on the EU ones? Maybe we can get a game going sometime


----------



## DoomDash

I've been getting stomped tonight BAD. The first guy I played was a 2000+ Protoss that had I **** you not 2400+ 1v1's played.

Here:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/475885/NYD

If I wouldn't have played REALLY sloppy with my timing push I would have beat him... but after it failed he slaughtered me anyway.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've been getting stomped tonight BAD. The first guy I played was a 2000+ Protoss that had I **** you not 2400+ 1v1's played.

Here:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/475885/NYD

If I wouldn't have played REALLY sloppy with my timing push I would have beat him... but after it failed he slaughtered me anyway.

No wonder you lost..that dude has no life whatsoever. Over 2,000 1v1s already? Too bad he only has a 50% win ratio haha.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
You still playing on NA servers even once in a while or have you went back to laddering on the EU ones? Maybe we can get a game going sometime









Yeah I've been laddering 1v1 the last few days on EU. But I don't like playing after midnight because there are better players out of my league playing this late









You want to play?


----------



## spartacus

I started winning most of the practice games so I thought I would move to the ranked league games. I've played 11 games and was crushed in all but one. haha. I suck at this game, but it's kind of fun


----------



## Tchernobyl

I'm still at a loss to figure out how to stop those stupid large stalker armies as zerg. the 20-30+ stalker groups that lay waste to every goddamn thing in their path









(yes, i know, harass early, don't let them get that, etc etc. shush







)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I've been laddering 1v1 the last few days on EU. But I don't like playing after midnight because there are better players out of my league playing this late









You want to play?

Of course, I'm interested. We haven't played in a while, so, I'm interested in seeing how much I improved. As to the better players, well, while it's true that it affects your rank, who cares in this case, you are in Silver ATM, so, it's ok to lose some games but learn from them so that you don't make the same mistakes again. I can only play after 9-10pm here, since, my net is slow during the day and I don't want any disconnects since they count as loses. I'll be jumping on in <1hr, so, hopefully you are still on when I go on









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I've been getting stomped tonight BAD. The first guy I played was a 2000+ Protoss that had I **** you not 2400+ 1v1's played.

Here:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/475885/NYD

If I wouldn't have played REALLY sloppy with my timing push I would have beat him... but after it failed he slaughtered me anyway.

well, everyone goes on a losing streak. The question is, are you learning from it? If yes, then it's worth it. Here's the other question: Did you try your best? Yes, then you shouldn't have any regrets even though you lost









Quote:


Originally Posted by *spartacus* 
I started winning most of the practice games so I thought I would move to the ranked league games. I've played 11 games and was crushed in all but one. haha. I suck at this game, but it's kind of fun









Practice league is nothing like the actual league. First game I played, I didn't realize how much faster it was and next thing I know, I have 7 stalkers+6 zealots or so in my base tearing it up







After that game, I improved my game and personally love the faster speed


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I'm still at a loss to figure out how to stop those stupid large stalker armies as zerg. the 20-30+ stalker groups that lay waste to every goddamn thing in their path









(yes, i know, harass early, don't let them get that, etc etc. shush







)

slings+banelings. I know they don't take them out that easily, but, 20 banelings with 30slings or so will do some major damage, nothing that a crawler can't finish


----------



## Tchernobyl

banelings just seem like a waste of resources... i mean they do what, 25 damage per baneling, on something that has 160 hp? (80 health 80 shields)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
banelings just seem like a waste of resources... i mean they do what, 25 damage per baneling, on something that has 160 hp? (80 health 80 shields)

It's more the splash that helps take them down since they group together. Also, maybe make some hydras or roaches(10 or so) for further support, so, that if you lose the slings+blings, your opponent still can't just walk into your base with his stalkers with very low hp


----------



## thiru

I had a zerg go baneling on me. Horrible things happened to him.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I had a zerg go baneling on me. Horrible things happened to him.

Against MMM ball, banelings are just fantastic. Against protoss, less so however with their splash and 35 for light, 20 for everything else, they can do some serious provided you can get them to your enemy! I think slings+blings+hydras would be a viable option due to the hydras's DPS and the slings+blings doing splash and acting as meat shields


----------



## Tchernobyl

That's kindof the problems though. Slings + blings + hydras or add roaches to that for meatshielding... that's 3 to 4 different units types...

To counter ONE SINGLE UNIT TYPE. That seems rather flawed.


----------



## poroboszcz

To kill stalkers you need speedlings, hydras or ultras. Roaches can work too in big numbers.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, I'm learning from it.







. I love getting my ass kicked.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


That's kindof the problems though. Slings + blings + hydras or add roaches to that for meatshielding... that's 3 to 4 different units types...

To counter ONE SINGLE UNIT TYPE. That seems rather flawed.


I wouldn't use banelings. Roach and speedlings work well, but you don't want to push with that, just defend with spinecrawlers. Try to have the roaches kill the zealots and the speedlings swing around to kill the stalkers. And focus the sentries if you can.

Then get hydra if he stays on warpgates.


----------



## EmMure

the lots stalkers will eat up slings,blings will do a nice chuck of dmg if they are clusted enough


----------



## poroboszcz

Stalker is protoss (soft) counter to banelings. You even learn it in the campaign.


----------



## BigFan

I've used blings+slings against P with lots of zealots+stalkers. It works well if you have the numbers to support it, although, I do plan to add some hydras to that mix in the near future


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Stalker is protoss (soft) counter to banelings. You even learn it in the campaign.


Maybe I missed that, but, when was that? I don't recall having to deal with banelings in the campaign


----------



## EmMure

hey fan how am i doing,http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...caverns#rd:dna


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


hey fan how am i doing,http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...caverns#rd:dna


I'll take a look once I get on my rig and post some tips


----------



## EmMure

i did alot of harassing with slings for a quick game


----------



## alienguts

are you guys talking about 1v1 strategies or what...

I started playing scII the day the beta dropped, on a single core AMD Athlon64 4000+ San Diego with like 3 GB memory, it was hilarious. Then started upgrading so I had a good comp by the release.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Maybe I missed that, but, when was that? I don't recall having to deal with banelings in the campaign


I can recall two instances of banelings in the campaign.

First is with they Crystal, the zeratul missions. At one point you gotta kite banelings with your stalkers and blink.

Second time is on Char, when you get the nydus canal option, there's some there.


----------



## -bl4ck-

any decent playing that plays toss will just blink away and pick them off


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I can recall two instances of banelings in the campaign.

First is with they Crystal, the zeratul missions. At one point you gotta kite banelings with your stalkers and blink.

Second time is on Char, when you get the nydus canal option, there's some there.


hmm, I can't recall those at all. I do remember playing all of the zeratul missions as well









Quote:



Originally Posted by *alienguts*


are you guys talking about 1v1 strategies or what...

I started playing scII the day the beta dropped, on a single core AMD Athlon64 4000+ San Diego with like 3 GB memory, it was hilarious. Then started upgrading so I had a good comp by the release.


Pretty much, 1vs1 counters actually









Quote:



Originally Posted by *-bl4ck-*


any decent playing that plays toss will just blink away and pick them off


You might it sound like blink is instant recharge which it isn't. A smart zerg player will surrend their opponent and then bring in the blings+hydras/roaches


----------



## EmMure

you sure do love blings fan hahaha


----------



## thiru

GSL started.


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-bl4ck-*


any decent playing that plays toss will just blink away and pick them off


Fungal growth stops blink now.

Bottom line, you're going to want to get a healthy mix of slings/blings/roaches/infestors against any ground-based army.


----------



## EmMure

i dont think ive ever seen infestors come out in a match ive watchd or played lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Fungal growth stops blink now.

Bottom line, you're going to want to get a healthy mix of slings/blings/roaches/infestors against any ground-based army.


Pretty much and FG should have always stopped blink, but, not sure why it wasn't implemented before









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


you sure do love blings fan hahaha


I do since MMM balls were the biggest problem that I had with terran. With blings, it's pretty easy to take it down. It's protoss that I'm having some problems with now, lol. Gotta get back to making roaches again and combine with sling+bling for max damage


----------



## EmMure

u get a chance to watch my replay yet?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


u get a chance to watch my replay yet?


Not yet, since, it's pretty late here and I should head to bed, but, tell me one thing, did you win?


----------



## EmMure

yes lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yes lol


Nice







Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to hit the bed, but, I'll make sure to take a look at it tommorrow. As long as you tried to do those couple of points we talked about, then you are doing well


----------



## EmMure

yup haha,i scouted,sling harassed 3 times,exp'd,got roaches,blings,hydra's,gg'd his face


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yup haha,i scouted,sling harassed 3 times,exp'd,got roaches,blings,hydra's,gg'd his face


Nice, sounds like you did great


----------



## Domino

I find 2v2 reaper rushes against a good zerg player who rushes roaches hard. Haven't tried rushing the zerg player first, yet, but so far I'm not liking reaper rushing the weaker player.

However proxxy terran/protoss rushes. Haha, so far on a 7 win streak.

Btw I just hit platinum. Wooooowheeeee!


----------



## Domino

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *EmMure*   yup haha,i scouted,sling harassed 3 times,exp'd,got roaches,blings,hydra's,gg'd his face  
for my last game I did.

[2v2] 6-proxy, 8 or 9-sd, 11-dual barracks, out marines, 3rd barracks out fly into base, rush in with 4-6 marines and a few scvs. Constantly building marines and scvs. After first guy, lift barracks, fly into other main, pumps more barracks in the background, rush ridge where barracks land, gg.









So far it is working very well lately.

Has anyone seen this? I lol'd so hard.
  
 You Tube  



 
 I'm surprised he doesn't do the 10/12 extractor drone tactic to get mins faster. But very interesting strat.


----------



## EmMure

i was doing 11/13 extrac for a while i couldnt make larva fast enough to use the min's


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i was doing 11/13 extrac for a while i couldnt make larva fast enough to use the min's


ouch. MORE HATCHERIES!









Is it really 11/13? It wasn't 10/12?

Btw, what is a 6 pool? I've gone against a ... few ... they didn't look experienced. A single bunker does the trick against them, or at least a wall. Haven't seem it get used a lot (i.e. ling rushes) lately.


----------



## EmMure

yea usally 11/13 or 13/14

spawning pool right away then rush to 6 lings and rush with them


----------



## ThumperSD

i miss lurkers so much...


----------



## DoomDash

I don't!


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


i miss lurkers so much...


I think I spotted one in the campaign maybe a hint at them being in Heart of the Swarm.


----------



## DoomDash

noooooo gsl nooooooooooo


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


noooooo gsl nooooooooooo


What happened?


----------



## DoomDash

TLO got knocked out, stupid protoss map abuse

last match for the current batch is going live right now

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/user...?user=Ai01Alph


----------



## thiru

Oh I thought you were talking about the current game. Yeah too bad TLO got kicked out already


----------



## DoomDash

at least boxer is still in.


----------



## Tchernobyl

what, protoss warpgate abuse? I still think the warp-in time is entirely too short for something that lets you do it across an entire map... 5 seconds is too fast :/


----------



## DoomDash

On one of the 2 new maps ( the greener one ), he puts a pylon on the right of the rocks near the nat and warps units in across the ravine.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


On one of the 2 new maps ( the greener one ), he puts a pylon on the right of the rocks near the nat and warps units in across the ravine.


I don't think the pylon location made a big difference as long as it was close enough. He still would have overwhelmed him, he basically had as many stalkers as TLO had marines.


----------



## DoomDash

Flint bad manner.


----------



## thiru

Well the other guy clearly had lost... I mean you can recover losing your base, or losing your army, but not both.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I don't think the pylon location made a big difference as long as it was close enough. He still would have overwhelmed him, he basically had as many stalkers as TLO had marines.



You must not have seen the game I saw. That was the only reason he won. The bunker at the front would have held off those stalkers anyway. It was smart by the toss to do it though... but thats the only reason TLO lost.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You must not have seen the game I saw. That was the only reason he won. The bunker at the front would have held off those stalkers anyway. It was smart by the toss to do it though... but thats the only reason TLO lost.


I saw it. TLO had 4 marines in a bunker and maybe a few more nearby but a few stalkers took the bunker out before SCVs came, and at the same time 4 stalkers warped in from the other side and took out the depot wall.
If a few stalkers could take out the bunker on their own, then 4 more stalkers wouldn't have hurt.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


On one of the 2 new maps ( the greener one ), he puts a pylon on the right of the rocks near the nat and warps units in across the ravine.


I did that once against a protoss aswell and devastated their economy with only 4 dashing zealots. (observer ftw) Im not sure if you can see the other side without an air unit or a colossus to spot it...

Hey DoomDash. I see EXACTLY what you mean. in the last 2 days, the ratio of Zerg players i played against has gone up 300%!! which means, it has TRIPLED. I dont mean random that end up being zerg, i mean players that select Zerg from the get go. And EVERYTIME im terran, i get pwned. I tried a lot of things and the longest game I survived is when I teched to thor, tanks and vikings and boxed in my main and my expo but all the zerg had to do was wait and tech up to brood lords and try to goop the whole map.

I am soon going to try Thor, Marauder, Banshee, with maybe a VERY small group of marines BEHIND the army to take out mutaz. At first i thought he was exagerating but since I play random and before Id get maybe 1 zerg out of 10 quick ladder games, I would rarely EVER play TvZ but now i see it maybe 3 out of 10 games.

Dash, you have any other strategies that worked? Cause that MMM ball is lookin mighty weak now that everyone has gotten a clue how great a LOT of rolling banelings+speedlings are, especially on that spread out creep.
I looked at a few day9 commented games and MAN, even for some of the good terran players its gettin hard to keep zerg from outmacroing. They are MAINLY relying on hellion harass to keep zerg from overtaking them in economy.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but its the fact that it was surrounded and picked off from two sides, and not one funneled on a ramp is why it went down so quick. No one would have attacked that bunker going up that ramp with that amount of units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I did that once against a protoss aswell and devastated their economy with only 4 dashing zealots. (observer ftw) Im not sure if you can see the other side without an air unit or a colossus to spot it...

Hey DoomDash. I see EXACTLY what you mean. in the last 2 days, the ratio of Zerg players i played against has gone up 300%!! which means, it has TRIPLED. I dont mean random that end up being zerg, i mean players that select Zerg from the get go. And EVERYTIME im terran, i get pwned. I tried a lot of things and the longest game I survived is when I teched to thor, tanks and vikings and boxed in my main and my expo but all the zerg had to do was wait and tech up to brood lords and try to goop the whole map.

I am soon going to try Thor, Marauder, Banshee, with maybe a VERY small group of marines BEHIND the army to take out mutaz. At first i thought he was exagerating but since I play random and before Id get maybe 1 zerg out of 10 quick ladder games, I would rarely EVER play TvZ but now i see it maybe 3 out of 10 games.

Dash, you have any other strategies that worked? Cause that MMM ball is lookin mighty weak now that everyone has gotten a clue how great a LOT of rolling banelings+speedlings are, especially on that spread out creep.
I looked at a few day9 commented games and MAN, even for some of the good terran players its gettin hard to keep zerg from outmacroing. They are MAINLY relying on hellion harass to keep zerg from overtaking them in economy.


I have nothing super solid yet, but I think a 2 rax ( 1 reactor 1 tech ) to thor with SCV's for repair timing push can be pretty solid. It's been hit or barely miss so far, but I'm still trying to perfect it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah but its the fact that it was surrounded and picked off from two sides, and not one funneled on a ramp is why it went down so quick. No one would have attacked that bunker going up that ramp with that amount of units.


Look at the replay, he took it out with 2 sentries 2 stalkers on one side and 4 stalkers (2 of which only shot once at the bunker) on the other side. He only had 2 sentries on the ramp, so he had lots of space to fit 4 stalkers on the ramp or behind it or to the sides.


----------



## DoomDash

but he would taken a lot of unnecessary hits moving up the ramp. I just don't think he would have broken it, I have a lot of bunker experience vs this you realize







. Just my opinion.


----------



## this n00b again

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I have nothing super solid yet, but I think a 2 rax ( 1 reactor 1 tech ) to thor with SCV's for repair timing push can be pretty solid. It's been hit or barely miss so far, but I'm still trying to perfect it.


This is strong. but with proper micro I was able to hold one of these off with 2 rax, factory. bunker, and siege.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *this n00b again*


This is strong. but with proper micro I was able to hold one of these off with 2 rax, factory. bunker, and siege.


We are talking about TvZ... but that is my T build too lol. I do drops as well.


----------



## DoomDash

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/811948
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=161990

3 random, 69 zerg, 79 terran and 49 protoss.

+34 Zerg players since last time. ( if whats posted in my source thread is correct, not checking it 100% ). 
-14 Terran ( i think these are wrong but im lazy, correct if you want )
-4 Protoss

Just euro so far.

Thoughts? Will be interesting to see the other regions as well.


----------



## poroboszcz

I can definitely tell that I've been playing more vsZ games recently. It seems like Blizzard patches are working for zerg and attract more players to the race.


----------



## DoomDash

In the state of the game they were talking about how they actually think Blizzard should make Zerg OP to attract a ton of players ( so the race ratios even out ), then fix it. Wonder if that's what they are trying to do? Who knows.

Looks like Zerg is getting popular.


----------



## Nevaziah

Well, im not surprised. MOst Zerg players, INCLUDING myself have not been using banelings efficiently enough against terran MMM ball and they were are too afraid to poke the front with lings to explore vs protoss. With more and more pro-games being shown where zerg preety much controls maps with 6-10 zerglings running around the map, and the timings for speedlings being mastered, Zerg players will realize that its VERY easy to keep terrans AND protoss boxed in if they dont try to expand at the same rate as Zerg. AND vice versa, terrans and protoss MAY become too nervous expanding or even taking their naturals. I know, it happened to me. But I got over it and I managed to survive a LOT longer by teching up. But i still made WAY too many marines which is what got me killed. I shoulda made WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy more hellions, heck i got the money for it. Blue fame hellions own!!! I learned that during our funday 3v3 when Thiru went mass hellions, even managed to pwn protoss gateway units....

PLUS the roach upgrade is definetly gonna increase Zerg chances vs protoss early and midgame.


----------



## DoomDash

NA server:

56 zerg
76 terran
59 protoss
9 random


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


for my last game I did.

[2v2] 6-proxy, 8 or 9-sd, 11-dual barracks, out marines, 3rd barracks out fly into base, rush in with 4-6 marines and a few scvs. Constantly building marines and scvs. After first guy, lift barracks, fly into other main, pumps more barracks in the background, rush ridge where barracks land, gg.









So far it is working very well lately.

Has anyone seen this? I lol'd so hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er8MlJbN99Q

I'm surprised he doesn't do the 10/12 extractor drone tactic to get mins faster. But very interesting strat.


I once built a hatchery in my opponent's base







I attacked him with zerglings and had a drone, then led his zealots back to my base while I made a hatchery right near his nexus. Suffice to say, the game ended rather quickly









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


ouch. MORE HATCHERIES!









Is it really 11/13? It wasn't 10/12?

Btw, what is a 6 pool? I've gone against a ... few ... they didn't look experienced. A single bunker does the trick against them, or at least a wall. Haven't seem it get used a lot (i.e. ling rushes) lately.


6 pool is when you start the game, get to 200 minerals, build pool and then rush your opponent with the zerglings







As for the hatchery idea, definitely more hatcheries. Realized that having an inbase hatchery really accelerates any recoveries plus I can make more army units instead of having to wait for larvae









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


i miss lurkers so much...


I do as well







I'm pretty confident they will be back in HoTS, but, we're going to have to do with what we have









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't!


lol, coming from the terran player







Lurkers slaughtered marines in BW and if they are anything like BW, they will slaughter those marines again, same goes for marauders







Basically, lurkers+banelings > MMM ball, however, according to the tech table, they have them in tier 3+, so, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to tech up just to get lurkers against MMM ball









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Well, im not surprised. MOst Zerg players, INCLUDING myself have not been using banelings efficiently enough against terran MMM ball and they were are too afraid to poke the front with lings to explore vs protoss. With more and more pro-games being shown where zerg preety much controls maps with 6-10 zerglings running around the map, and the timings for speedlings being mastered, Zerg players will realize that its VERY easy to keep terrans AND protoss boxed in if they dont try to expand at the same rate as Zerg. AND vice versa, terrans and protoss MAY become too nervous expanding or even taking their naturals. I know, it happened to me. But I got over it and I managed to survive a LOT longer by teching up. But i still made WAY too many marines which is what got me killed. I shoulda made WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy more hellions, heck i got the money for it. Blue fame hellions own!!! I learned that during our funday 3v3 when Thiru went mass hellions, even managed to pwn protoss gateway units....

PLUS the roach upgrade is definetly gonna increase Zerg chances vs protoss early and midgame.


TBH, I don't think the latest patch has made it so that Zerg is much easier to play or easier to defend with, etc.... I mean FG was good, since, stalkers shouldn't blink when immobilized, more hp for buildings was also good considering our buildings were really low in hp and the increase in range to 4 for roaches was also pretty good, however, we weren't given some major OPment in that last patch, just a couple of things to make playing zerg a bit easier. We still have the usual APM intensive aspects(spread creep, spawn larvae, etc....). Roaches are still destroyed by stalkers and marauders, likewise zerglings can still be countered by marines and zealots. Banelings can be taken down if the player kites with MMM ball, uses hellions or uses tanks in siege mode. Hellions are an awesome unit, but, are hard countered by roaches and if you manage to surround them, it's over!







Banelings are great as well, makes life so much easier against MMM ball. I'm confident that had I used them earlier on in my games, I wouldn't have lost most of my terran ones and might even be in gold right now







One thing that still doesn't make sense, why don't terrans use tanks? I mean one shot would take a banelings hp down to 5hp or so where an MMM ball can finish the rest, but, then you have to worry about overload baneling drops instead, lol, always a surprise in store









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


NA server:

56 zerg
76 terran
59 protoss
9 random


Interesting!


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg doesn't need the lurker though. Banelings = Lurker.

Honestly I'd take the Lurker over banelings because I think lurkers were much more beatable in most situations.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Zerg doesn't need the lurker though. Banelings = Lurker.

Honestly I'd take the Lurker over banelings because I think lurkers were much more beatable in most situations.


Lurker are hidden until scanned and used to have I think something like 85hp or so. Banelings only have 35hp, do 20 damage with +35 vs light and can be kited easily. Also, range wise, banelings are melee, lurkers arent. Personally, I like both, so, I can' t choose one over the other


----------



## DoomDash

Thoughts on Lurkers vs Banelings

A) Banelings are dirty cheap compared to lurkers, making them less risky / less drastic when losing some.

B) Lurkers required far more impressive / cool defensive micro compared to just kiting micro

C) Lurkers were important defense units as well as offensive units. Roaches probably wouldn't need a range 4 if you could just get a lurker or two at a ramp to defend a lot of harass or early game pressure

D) Banelings are just easier to get, cheaper, and far more efficient when used propely.

E) All the micro in the world won't save you from a proper composition of banelings and other units with MMM. In BW Lurkers were amazing when in sick hands, but crappy when in bad ones. Banelings are just on average pretty easy to use.

F) Lurkers would give you a even better reason to put money into hydra tech

G) Lurkers would give Terran more reason to think about the energy at their CC ( baneling mines too but not to the same extent )

I would just rather see lurkers back instead of banelings ( not both plz, jesus ). They are far more creative.


----------



## Nevaziah

OH yeah, I know. I dont mean its the patch that did it. Its the game experience. THe older the game gets, the more confortable and more experienced zerg players will get and they will see more and more zerg coverage and replays in big events and see how easy it is to control the map early on.

I am starting to go A LOT more mech vs zerg. I mean A LOT more than usual. I dont even make that many medivacs anymore, i just send 2 or 3 scvs with my units and MAN, thors can dish out a beating with 1 or 2 scvs repairing them after each battle...


----------



## DoomDash

Just hope they don't get to Ultras. :/


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quick note about zerg vs blink stalkers.

Slings are all you need. Roaches are ok but don't go hydra or baneling. Too slow. I perfected my blink stalker rush for a while, and I /facepalmed every time I saw a zerg send a wall of lings at my front lines hoping to score kills there. You need to micro your lings way past the stalkers and wrap around the army. The protoss is microing the stalkers, so you need to micro as well.

I found it harder and harder to win with this strat, eventually switching back to the control/expand style.

Speaking of ultras, they were my worst fear up until I learned how to counter them properly. Late game, you need 2 robotics facilities, and an observer in the zerg's base. Keep an eye out for that ultra cave, you need ~6 immortals to focus down ultra effectively. If you get caught with your pants down, it's GG. Since making this change, I've steadily risen from 1500 to 1600, and expect 1700 tonight.


----------



## poroboszcz

Archons do quite well against ultras too. And, unlike immortals, also against lings, mutas and hydras.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thoughts on Lurkers vs Banelings

A) Banelings are dirty cheap compared to lurkers, making them less risky / less drastic when losing some.

B) Lurkers required far more impressive / cool defensive micro compared to just kiting micro

C) Lurkers were important defense units as well as offensive units. Roaches probably wouldn't need a range 4 if you could just get a lurker or two at a ramp to defend a lot of harass or early game pressure

D) Banelings are just easier to get, cheaper, and far more efficient when used propely.

E) All the micro in the world won't save you from a proper composition of banelings and other units with MMM. In BW Lurkers were amazing when in sick hands, but crappy when in bad ones. Banelings are just on average pretty easy to use.

F) Lurkers would give you a even better reason to put money into hydra tech

G) Lurkers would give Terran more reason to think about the energy at their CC ( baneling mines too but not to the same extent )

I would just rather see lurkers back instead of banelings ( *not both plz*, jesus ). They are far more creative.


lol, actually if we had both, it be fantastic, advance and burrow lurkers, make slings+bling, run at enemy, they chase you within range of lurkers, lurkers+slings+blings= WIN! lol, of course, this doesn't include scanning, etc....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


OH yeah, I know. I dont mean its the patch that did it. Its the game experience. THe older the game gets, the more confortable and more experienced zerg players will get and they will see more and more zerg coverage and replays in big events and see how easy it is to control the map early on.

I am starting to go A LOT more mech vs zerg. I mean A LOT more than usual. I dont even make that many medivacs anymore, i just send 2 or 3 scvs with my units and MAN, thors can dish out a beating with 1 or 2 scvs repairing them after each battle...


ok, I see your point







That repair thing is crazy though, I mean you can get an unlimited # of SCVs repairing a structure/unit(unlimited as in how many fit around said structure/unit)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Archons do quite well against ultras too. And, unlike immortals, also against lings, mutas and hydras.


It's kind surprising that archons aren't seen anymore considering that they were fantastic in BW


----------



## Oktoberfest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Quick note about zerg vs blink stalkers.

Slings are all you need. Roaches are ok but don't go hydra or baneling. Too slow. I perfected my blink stalker rush for a while, and I /facepalmed every time I saw a zerg send a wall of lings at my front lines hoping to score kills there. You need to micro your lings way past the stalkers and wrap around the army. The protoss is microing the stalkers, so you need to micro as well.

I found it harder and harder to win with this strat, eventually switching back to the control/expand style.

Speaking of ultras, they were my worst fear up until I learned how to counter them properly. Late game, you need 2 robotics facilities, and an observer in the zerg's base. Keep an eye out for that ultra cave, you need ~6 immortals to focus down ultra effectively. If you get caught with your pants down, it's GG. Since making this change, I've steadily risen from 1500 to 1600, and expect 1700 tonight.


speedlings only work well if you're on creep. If you're off creep, you can still kite pretty well even wtihout blink


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Oktoberfest*


speedlings only work well if you're on creep. If you're off creep, you can still kite pretty well even wtihout blink


True, they are great in numbers, seperately they are weak


----------



## Tchernobyl

lurkers were good due to being long distance ground siege, that could hold a choke. Right now, only broodlords can really do that and even then they don't really "block" a choke. Ultras are melee so they're more hindered by chokes. A combination of both might be best but that's ******edly expensive.

Lurkers were what, 7-8+ range on ground? that would be awesome.


----------



## thiru

They were range 6... same as upgraded dragoon.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just played 5 games and 4 of them were PvZ. What's interesting in each of them my opponent went hatch before pool (one even did it on steppes), so I got 4 free wins.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Yeah, Z seem to think they get a free hatch since the supply/racks change, and even think the same vs toss. I've learned not to fast expand so quickly against toss


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


They were range 6... same as upgraded dragoon.


according to sc2 wiki, lurker was 6 range, 9 with upgraded spines (hello colossus!), 15 dmg +15 to armored, and 200 hp (50 minerals, 100 gas, 3 supply).

DO WANT


----------



## poroboszcz

You can have lurkers, vultures, reavers, wraiths and others on several custom maps that adopted sc1 units. Pretty fun to play, far from balanced though.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
lurkers were good due to being long distance ground siege, that could hold a choke. Right now, only broodlords can really do that and even then they don't really "block" a choke. Ultras are melee so they're more hindered by chokes. A combination of both might be best but that's ******edly expensive.

Lurkers were what, 7-8+ range on ground? that would be awesome.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
according to sc2 wiki, lurker was 6 range, 9 with upgraded spines (hello colossus!), 15 dmg +15 to armored, and 200 hp (50 minerals, 100 gas, 3 supply).

DO WANT









AFAIK there never were lurkers in SC2 MP as it was scrapped before the beta.
Lurkers in Brood war had 6 range and no range upgrade.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I've learned not to fast expand so quickly against toss









I'm a Z player and I never do a quick expo vs. P anymore. P is very vulnerable to early one-base tier 1.5 aggression and I've become kind of a douchebag about exploiting that. Well over half my games vs. P never go beyond one base for me or the P player. If the P player takes a fast expo that just makes my job even easier. I'm starting to believe that Z is probably overpowered in the tier 1.5 stage of ZvP matchups.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I'm a Z player and I never do a quick expo vs. P anymore. P is very vulnerable to early one-base tier 1.5 aggression and I've become kind of a douchebag about exploiting that. Well over half my games vs. P never go beyond one base for me or the P player. If the P player takes a fast expo that just makes my job even easier. I'm starting to believe that Z is probably overpowered in the tier 1.5 stage of ZvP matchups.

Wat.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wat.

Try it. Quickly poop out a big pack of slings, blings and a few roaches, then pay a visit to the P main. Crash the ramp with blings, then have slings run for the mineral line and let roaches fight the warriors. Keep funneling in reinforcements.


----------



## thiru

I FF and laugh and drop 2 more warpgates.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
AFAIK there never were lurkers in SC2 MP as it was scrapped before the beta.
Lurkers in Brood war had 6 range and no range upgrade.

They were in an early beta or late alpha from what I understand. They were in the game, but due to being underused, they were removed, because the roach took over its role.

yeah no >_>


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Just played 5 games and 4 of them were PvZ. What's interesting in each of them my opponent went hatch before pool (one even did it on steppes), so I got 4 free wins.









I'd be interested to see if you could stop me doing this.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I'm a Z player and I never do a quick expo vs. P anymore. P is very vulnerable to early one-base tier 1.5 aggression and I've become kind of a douchebag about exploiting that. Well over half my games vs. P never go beyond one base for me or the P player. If the P player takes a fast expo that just makes my job even easier. I'm starting to believe that Z is probably overpowered in the tier 1.5 stage of ZvP matchups.

Sorry, but, I disagree. Blings are great vs. zealots, but, weak vs. stalkers which is why you need both with some roaches to take down his army. Z is not OP early on, maybe with broodlords, they are, but, I haven't had many games where I needed broodlords or ultralisks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I FF and laugh and drop 2 more warpgates.

Pretty much. FF on ramp, pick off blings using stalkers, more ff+gg after they enter so that you can take one at a time. By the time, they get into your base, the army is gone and even if they send another, then redo again







Protoss are becoming harder to play against than Terran now


----------



## DoomDash

They were considered harder even last patch.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I FF and laugh and drop 2 more warpgates.

You gonna watch your ramp every second? An early sling/bling push can get into your base real fast.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
You gonna watch your ramp every second? An early sling/bling push can get into your base real fast.

Yes, but, unlike marines, zealots+stalkers have enough hp and need several hits to bring their hp down enough for the slings to kill them. That also doesn't take into account that you could use FF to seperate your blings from lings and close off your base while you make more reinforcements and while you snipe them from safety


----------



## DoomDash

When I play Protoss I leave a probe a few feet away from the bottom of my ramp. This gives me plenty of vision / warning for speedling/stim ramp rushes. Not enough players do this.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
You gonna watch your ramp every second? An early sling/bling push can get into your base real fast.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes, but, unlike marines, zealots+stalkers have enough hp and need several hits to bring their hp down enough for the slings to kill them. That also doesn't take into account that you could use FF to seperate your blings from lings and close off your base while you make more reinforcements and while you snipe them from safety









This, pretty much. You need 4 banelings to kill a zealot and 8 to kill a stalker. Usually I wall off against zerg and put a zealot to complete the wall and have the rest a little bit behind. Plenty enough of time and even if not, I can just wall off and split your army in 2 and that's it really.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
When I play Protoss I leave a probe a few feet away from the bottom of my ramp. This gives me plenty of vision / warning for speedling/stim ramp rushes. Not enough players do this.

Nice tip. Will do this.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
This, pretty much. You need 4 banelings to kill a zealot and 8 to kill a stalker. Usually I wall off against zerg and put a zealot to complete the wall and have the rest a little bit behind. Plenty enough of time and even if not, I can just wall off and split your army in 2 and that's it really.

Nice tip. Will do this.

As much as I have grown to love banelings, I found the hard way that they aren't good enough against stalkers which is why I'm going back to roaches but add on blings+slings for support









Edit: Just to clarify, what I meant by they aren't good enough, was that you needed a lot to take them down, not that banelings are terrible units


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes, but, unlike marines, zealots+stalkers have enough hp and need several hits to bring their hp down enough for the slings to kill them. That also doesn't take into account that you could use FF to seperate your blings from lings and close off your base while you make more reinforcements and while you snipe them from safety









Okay, but you better be fast because I have the slings pile in right behind the blings and I come early enough in the game that you won't have many sentries available. I also enjoy killing the sentries whenever I see them.


----------



## DoomDash

1500 finally.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Okay, but you better be fast because I have the slings pile in right behind the blings and I come early enough in the game that you won't have many sentries available. I also enjoy killing the sentries whenever I see them.

And how will you kill these sentries from the bottom of a force fielded ram with only speedlings and banelings at your disposal?

I'm sure your tactic works against some people, but it shouldn't work against anyone moderately->highly competent


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'd be interested to see if you could stop me doing this.

My highest rated opponent today was only ~1100, but I take it as a challenge. Don't have much time to play recently though. In fact I shouldn't be playing at all.


----------



## Domino

Anyone know that commentator on youtube where his opening vids are blings chasing a marauder? "Don't leave me hanging... It's go time."


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
And how will you kill these sentries from the bottom of a force fielded ram with only speedlings and banelings at your disposal?

I'm sure your tactic works against some people, but it shouldn't work against anyone moderately->highly competent

You might be right about that when it comes to actually breaking down the ramp. One thing I've done a number of times is attack once and then bring up more blings/slings as if to attack again. P stays bottled in his main waiting for me to make a move, but I don't actually have any intention of attacking the ramp. It's just a show. I'm really just teching/expanding. P invests resources to defend the ramp against an attack that never comes. Instead of a fight on the ramp he gets hit by mutas on the mineral line and I have my 1st expo up and running while P still has only one base.


----------



## EmMure

yet again that wont work against a competent person.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
My highest rated opponent today was only ~1100, but I take it as a challenge. Don't have much time to play recently though. In fact I shouldn't be playing at all.

I'm playing against up to 1200 platinums now







so we might face off one day







(well actually that'd be bad, I'd be soo nervous to play against you in ladder).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
You might be right about that when it comes to actually breaking down the ramp. One thing I've done a number of times is attack once and then bring up more blings/slings as if to attack again. P stays bottled in his main waiting for me to make a move, but I don't actually have any intention of attacking the ramp. It's just a show. I'm really just teching/expanding. P invests resources to defend the ramp against an attack that never comes. Instead of a fight on the ramp he gets hit by mutas on the mineral line and I have my 1st expo up and running while P still has only one base.

Except that you're thinking like a zerg. Protoss and terran don't need to "invest resources in defense" because they can make units AND workers at the same time (while zerg have to choose what to do with larvae, and this is where most zergs have problems in lower leagues).

And most protoss's reaction to sling/bling would be to get mass stalkers with some sentries. Which is perfect against mutas. And with FF it's easy to push out and expand if you're expanding too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm playing against up to 1200 platinums now







so we might face off one day







(well actually that'd be bad, I'd be soo nervous to play against you in ladder).

I'll ladder you guys







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll ladder you guys







.

Not so soon ! technically I'm still in silver







let me get my promotion first (wondering if it will be gold or platinum.. I don't feel I've faced any "real" platinums so I don't know).


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm playing against up to 1200 platinums now







so we might face off one day







(well actually that'd be bad, I'd be soo nervous to play against you in ladder).

Haha, do you win? The problem is that I'm not playing against silver, my opponents are rarely below diamond. We can play anytime though in custom games and you can always steamroll me playing terran.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll ladder you guys







.

What is your zerg rank?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm playing against up to 1200 platinums now







so we might face off one day







(well actually that'd be bad, I'd be soo nervous to play against you in ladder).

Except that you're thinking like a zerg. Protoss and terran don't need to "invest resources in defense" because they can make units AND workers at the same time (while zerg have to choose what to do with larvae, and this is where most zergs have problems in lower leagues).

And most protoss's reaction to sling/bling would be to get mass stalkers with some sentries. Which is perfect against mutas. And with FF it's easy to push out and expand if you're expanding too.

Well, I admit I haven't faced any truly skillful FF micro yet, but IMO you make P's task sound a little easier than it is. If I have a big pack of slings, speedbanelings and roaches hovering in the neighborhood it's pretty dangerous for stalkers to venture out of the ramp and try to take the natural expo. I have munched a number of P natural expos in bloody mid-game battles with sling/s-bling/roach forces. Against a good player I'd probably need to distract him with some muta action to avoid the FF blocking me. Obviously I'll need to keep improving my tactics to beat the better players.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Well, I admit I haven't faced any truly skillful FF micro yet, but IMO you make P's task sound a little easier than it is. If I have a big pack of slings, speedbanelings and roaches hovering in the neighborhood it's pretty dangerous for stalkers to venture out of the ramp and try to take the natural expo. I have munched a number of P natural expos in bloody mid-game battles with sling/s-bling/roach forces. Against a good player I'd probably need to distract him with some muta action to avoid the FF blocking me. Obviously I'll need to keep improving my tactics to beat the better players.

What league are you in?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
What league are you in?

Bronze *cough*, though I am ranked #1 in my division and am currently winning 85-90% of my matches. I pretty much only lose if I get lazy or try an experiment that fizzles. Should be in silver soon. I look forward to getting my ass kicked in the new league. Facing some decent FF micro will be an interesting experience. I'll have to adapt.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Haha, do you win? The problem is that I'm not playing against silver, my opponents are rarely below diamond. We can play anytime though in custom games and you can always steamroll me playing terran.









Yeah I do (only lost 1 game out of like 6-10 games vs plats). Although a lot of them were stupid cheesy/all in/something stupid games and 3 were playing off race (1 did it by accident).
The one that did beat me did a good push with marine/tank and caught my army in a horrible spot and I didn't retreat.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Well, I admit I haven't faced any truly skillful FF micro yet, but IMO you make P's task sound a little easier than it is. If I have a big pack of slings, speedbanelings and roaches hovering in the neighborhood it's pretty dangerous for stalkers to venture out of the ramp and try to take the natural expo. I have munched a number of P natural expos in bloody mid-game battles with sling/s-bling/roach forces. Against a good player I'd probably need to distract him with some muta action to avoid the FF blocking me. Obviously I'll need to keep improving my tactics to beat the better players.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Bronze *cough*, though I am ranked #1 in my division and am currently winning 85-90% of my matches. I pretty much only lose if I get lazy or try an experiment that fizzles. Should be in silver soon. I look forward to getting my ass kicked in the new league. Facing some decent FF micro will be an interesting experience. I'll have to adapt.

People in bronze are terrible.. at least the people in silver are more or less trying to get better.


----------



## EmMure

im sorry but bronze is a joke,i was number 4 in bronze for a better part of the first month of sc2,its not a division to be proud of being top in,silver+ is where u acutally see strats and not random builds


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Well, I admit I haven't faced any truly skillful FF micro yet, but IMO you make P's task sound a little easier than it is. If I have a big pack of slings, speedbanelings and roaches hovering in the neighborhood it's pretty dangerous for stalkers to venture out of the ramp and try to take the natural expo. I have munched a number of P natural expos in bloody mid-game battles with sling/s-bling/roach forces. Against a good player I'd probably need to distract him with some muta action to avoid the FF blocking me. Obviously I'll need to keep improving my tactics to beat the better players.

Well, today I had a game against a protoss. He started the game trying to trap me in my base(can't recall if he succeeded). He eventually massed and attacked with 4 colossi, some zealots and maybe 14+ stalkers or so. I saw him coming and made more units. Used mutalisks on his colossi and then attacked his zealots+stalkers with a decent number of banelings+slings. Other than a couple of casulaty, he steamrolled right through them, used stalkers to kill my mutalisks and then took out my exp and my main







For some strange reason, I didn't have a roach warren at all, same with a hydralisk den. I only had the pool, baneling nest and a spire since I was going to muta harass. Lesson learned- Scout more and tech up since a couple of slings+ultralisks with mutalisks would have been a good combo against his colossi and stalkers. A good player would build photo cannons around their cc's and throughout their base to prevent muta harass and then focus all his effort on taking down your attack followed by a counter-attack!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I do (only lost 1 game out of like 6-10 games vs plats). Although a lot of them were stupid cheesy/all in/something stupid games and 3 were playing off race (1 did it by accident).
The one that did beat me did a good push with marine/tank and caught my army in a horrible spot and I didn't retreat.

People in bronze are terrible.. at least the people in silver are more or less trying to get better.

I haven't seen any tank use in silver, it's very disappointing. All my games lost were due to lack of scouting, so, when that terran attacked with 4 thors+16 marines+ 1 hellion, I only had slings+blings to counter and was taken off guard. Had I teched up to brood lords and made some roaches to counter thors, I would've taken that game easily. Did I ever mention I hate thors with a passion?








As for the league thing, yes, I agree. All the game I've had with bronze involved cheese of some kind whether it was VRs, PCs, etc.... It seems to be a common strategy to try and block the ramp to keep a zerg limited to 1 base.


----------



## Lazorbeam

This push to 1700 went better than I thought...

1800!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Did I ever mention I hate thors with a passion?









Check out the magic box trick, it's pretty nasty vs thors.


----------



## WTHbot

Remember kids: The number of the day is the number J.









Oh god I found the picture!


----------



## vdek

I played so much 1v1 during the Beta that I feel 1v1'd out... =[ Been stuck in gold forever since I barely play any 1v1s 18-10 games... It's placing me against 1200 rated diamond players currently though, so this is fun


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


This push to 1700 went better than I thought...

1800!

Check out the magic box trick, it's pretty nasty vs thors.


What race do you play? I'm almost to 1600, but I don't play a lot of 1v1s. I only have 80 wins or so.
We should practice sometime, and maybe do some funday mondays







.
Inferno.383


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


This push to 1700 went better than I thought...

1800!

Check out the magic box trick, it's pretty nasty vs thors.


nice, that's the thing though. I read up on the magic box and was told to make them move to a certain location near the thor then press stop and then should spread out and attack almost negating the splash damage, however, I haven't had much luck implementing it into my games for some reason







Thors are just so powerful when you consider their cost(300/250).


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nice, that's the thing though. I read up on the magic box and was told to make them move to a certain location near the thor then press stop and then should spread out and attack almost negating the splash damage, however, I haven't had much luck implementing it into my games for some reason







Thors are just so powerful when you consider their cost(300/250).


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=145719

That thread explains the "magic box" pretty well.

Edit: pretty solid video demonstrating the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SephyreS.../0/2nNBQTt0dVU

12 0/0 mutas vs 3 0/0 thors resulted in 3 dead thors with 8 mutas surviving.


----------



## Slayem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Anyone know that commentator on youtube where his opening vids are blings chasing a marauder? "Don't leave me hanging... It's go time."


http://www.youtube.com/user/AskJoshy

Askjoshy


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yet again that wont work against a competent person.


True. I took a look at your replay. Great job with the harassement. The guy was pretty smart to get a PF, since, your slings would've taken out his base otherwise. One note is that your queens had their energy full and I don't recall you spreading the creep. You should have expanded early on since he was turtling in his base, but, expand when you feel is the right time







Also, you had 1k minerals at one point, too much, better to use it to make another hatchery, more drones, etc....









For some odd reason, it's been much harder to win lately. I've been on a losing streak, lol, I think 5 in a row. I lost to marines+4-5thor attack, zealot+stalker+immortal+colossus combo, etc.... I've never seen that last one before, but, I just won one long game against P. Tried turtling and getting VRs. Attacked with one VR within <30sec of having mutalisks and then the rest of the game was just making corruptors+mutalisks against his void rays. Suffice to say, I eventually got broodlords and decided to destroy his base. He in turn decided to attack mine with a large amount of stalkers+zealots taking out 2 undefended exp, before getting to the exp near my base. I was able to make enough zerglings+2-3 broodlords and crawlers to take his force down. I had creep spread through almost the whole map


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=145719

That thread explains the "magic box" pretty well.

Edit: pretty solid video demonstrating the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SephyreS.../0/2nNBQTt0dVU

12 0/0 mutas vs 3 0/0 thors resulted in 3 dead thors with 8 mutas surviving.


Thanks for this, I'll definitely take a look to make sure I'm doing it right


----------



## Tchernobyl

I am starting to utterly ****ing hate scrap station, especially vs a protoss. They wall in at the *bottom* of their ramp, at the path blocking the non rock-filled way to their expansion, basically giving them a free expansion once they have a few photon cannons up. Argh. And then they just keep pushing out their bull**** stalker army.

RAGE


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


True. I took a look at your replay. Great job with the harassement. The guy was pretty smart to get a PF, since, your slings would've taken out his base otherwise. One note is that your queens had their energy full and I don't recall you spreading the creep. You should have expanded early on since he was turtling in his base, but, expand when you feel is the right time







Also, you had 1k minerals at one point, too much, better to use it to make another hatchery, more drones, etc....










i would have but i wasnt worried 2 much about it i was scouting him enough to where i knew what was up,as far as spreading creep again i knew what he was up to for the most part so lol yea haha but u have to agree it's a decent start


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Lesson learned from Day9 funday monday: he might not be wearing pants.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I am starting to utterly ****ing hate scrap station, especially vs a protoss. They wall in at the *bottom* of their ramp, at the path blocking the non rock-filled way to their expansion, basically giving them a free expansion once they have a few photon cannons up. Argh. And then they just keep pushing out their bull**** stalker army.

RAGE


Did you try fast expanding?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


What race do you play? I'm almost to 1600, but I don't play a lot of 1v1s. I only have 80 wins or so.
We should practice sometime, and maybe do some funday mondays







.
Inferno.383


Protoss and zerg. I think my number of games played with each race is around 50%. I'd be down for practicing, but I already got several relatives bugging me, some ladder competitors, and a whole crowd of Venezuelan spanish-speaking people bugging me 24/7 because they think I'm this wc3 superstar who went by the same name. Anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I am starting to utterly ****ing hate scrap station, especially vs a protoss. They wall in at the *bottom* of their ramp, at the path blocking the non rock-filled way to their expansion, basically giving them a free expansion once they have a few photon cannons up. Argh. And then they just keep pushing out their bull**** stalker army.

RAGE


Thumb it down?

I used to do this strat every game vs zerg, but I've lost every match (about 4-5) since the roach buff. The new range allows the zerg player to safely take out the wall and THEN swoop in. Go mass roach and you'll win.


----------



## DoomDash

1800, 300 points higher than me, weak







. well oktoberfest who beat me in the finals of the Overclock.net tournament who beat me 3-2 is in the 1900's now :O.

I need more bonus pool >.<

Blinker my Zerg ladder is not that high. I give up on Zerg as I hate ZvZ too much..


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1800, 300 points higher than me, weak







. well oktoberfest who beat me in the finals of the Overclock.net tournament who beat me 3-2 is in the 1900's now :O.


Yes he's very good, I went down 0-3 against him, did you know he's in the same league as Huk?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Yes he's very good, I went down 0-3 against him, did you know he's in the same league as Huk?


Yep. I do OK against him but my TvP is by far my most experienced match up. I beat him with some very nice timing pushes ... but I blew the last game in the finals by doing a risky fast expand.

I have QXC, Silver, Tasteless ect in my division.

BTW you should put a link in your profile like me so I can click it.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Protoss and zerg. I think my number of games played with each race is around 50%. I'd be down for practicing, but I already got several relatives bugging me, some ladder competitors, and a whole crowd of Venezuelan spanish-speaking people bugging me 24/7 because they think I'm this wc3 superstar who went by the same name. Anyway.

Thumb it down?

I used to do this strat every game vs zerg, but I've lost every match (about 4-5) since the roach buff. The new range allows the zerg player to safely take out the wall and THEN swoop in. Go mass roach and you'll win.


I actually did this, but he had too many cannons on the ledge and a fair amount of units by then >.< I figure my timing was bad and I didn't have the units to push but blaaaaargh


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep. I do OK against him but my TvP is by far my most experienced match up. I beat him with some very nice timing pushes ... but I blew the last game in the finals by doing a risky fast expand.

I have QXC, Silver, Tasteless ect in my division.

BTW you should put a link in your profile like me so I can click it.


Sig updated, but sc2ranks is not yet.

How much do you use ghosts? I have a LOT of trouble vs any terran using ghosts and bioball.


----------



## DoomDash

Every game pretty much.... but recently I've been experimenting with Thors as well.

I basically do 3 rax ( two tech 1 reactor ) ghost timing pushes vs Protoss. Expand while pushing ( I wait for 2 ghosts, unless I scan and see robobay I will go in early ).


----------



## vdek

Overclock.net tournament? Where have I been??!? Are you guys planning on another one anytime soon?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Overclock.net tournament? Where have I been??!?



Where do we sign up for the n00b league?


----------



## DoomDash

It's all over, and to be honest it wasn't ran that well at the end. Me and the guy who made it to the finals pretty much had to arrange them ourselves and he still has yet get his prize.


----------



## Wishmaker

If we organise another one, I will join with my pompons







.


----------



## poroboszcz

How about OCN SC2 Season 2?








We could make one just in this thread, without prices, just fame and all the girls.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm down but some better run it better :O.


----------



## Wishmaker

How will this work? Some of us have the european versions ...


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


Where do we sign up for the n00b league?










n00b league? har har har, I'm no n00b


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


n00b league? har har har, I'm no n00b











I am and proud of it














. The AI is killing me on hard







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*


How will this work? Some of us have the european versions ...










We could use guest accounts and such, and/or make eliminations on different servers first. Btw what is your ID.number? I play on EU as well.


----------



## DoomDash

I let 2 people use my second US account but I don't think I would want to share with anymore than that.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


We could use guest accounts and such, and/or make eliminations on different servers first. Btw what is your ID.number? I play on EU as well.



My id number is easy peasy : Wishmaker. I've yet to join the multiplayer pwnage!!! As soon as I finish the SP on hard I will go online







.


----------



## thiru

You need to give your number ID with that. It appears when your mouse hovers over your portrait in the menu.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i would have but i wasnt worried 2 much about it i was scouting him enough to where i knew what was up,as far as spreading creep again i knew what he was up to for the most part so lol yea haha but u have to agree it's a decent start


I think you did great for a start. With more games, you'll get a better feel for the units and their capabilities as well as spreading creep, spawning larvae, etc.... will become much easier









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I am starting to utterly ****ing hate scrap station, especially vs a protoss. They wall in at the *bottom* of their ramp, at the path blocking the non rock-filled way to their expansion, basically giving them a free expansion once they have a few photon cannons up. Argh. And then they just keep pushing out their bull**** stalker army.

RAGE


TBH, I haven't played SS for a long time, I think I thumbed it down since I hated how far my exp is from my main base. Any protoss I've beaten there has been due to one-basing and then going mass mutalisks or worm filled with roaches+slings for attack. Of course, if they put some cannons near the back, the worm idea is pretty much history









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I used to do this strat every game vs zerg, but I've lost every match (about 4-5) since the roach buff. The new range allows the zerg player to safely take out the wall and THEN swoop in. Go mass roach and you'll win.


interesting, definitely something to consider. I haven't played much with roaches since the patch since I've been experimenting with banelings and recently with hydras









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Yes he's very good, I went down 0-3 against him, did you know he's in the same league as Huk?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep. I do OK against him but my TvP is by far my most experienced match up. I beat him with some very nice timing pushes ... but I blew the last game in the finals by doing a risky fast expand.

I have QXC, Silver, Tasteless ect in my division.

BTW you should put a link in your profile like me so I can click it.


hmm, but, do you get to play against them? Reason I ask is all my games far as I recall have been against people from other leagues and divisions and none from the one I'm in









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


How about OCN SC2 Season 2?








We could make one just in this thread, without prices, just fame and all the girls.


Interesting idea


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I am starting to utterly ****ing hate scrap station, especially vs a protoss. They wall in at the *bottom* of their ramp, at the path blocking the non rock-filled way to their expansion, basically giving them a free expansion once they have a few photon cannons up. Argh. And then they just keep pushing out their bull**** stalker army.

RAGE


What race are you playing as? Marauders and Lings work well against both Stalkers and cannons. Tanks, Thors, and Immortals are even better.


----------



## Tchernobyl

As zerg. And I still can't understand people who say to use roaches vs stalkers >_>


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


As zerg. And I still can't understand people who say to use roaches vs stalkers >_>


You're right, what am I thinking. If you couldn't tell, I don't play zerg much... Zerglings will actually destroy stalkers.


----------



## thiru

I've created an OCN Division on SC2ranks to keep track of each other's progress









http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Post your battle.net profile URL or your SC2ranks profile URL so I can add you or just add yourself to the list directly









edit: or you can just post your character name + code and I'll just search for your profile.


----------



## alienguts

jesus, how do you all discuss strategy so much. talk less, play more.

credibility: I was platinum before diamond existed.


----------



## EmMure

thats coool,now here's a cookie now begone troll


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I was truing to play SC2 today and it hangs in the login screen. The background hang but the musics still plays. Also yesterday i had to repair the game 3 time to get it to play. Does anyone have this problem. The only changes i have made is installed Nvidias new driver (they are perfect from what people say in OCN)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I've created an OCN Division on SC2ranks to keep track of each other's progress









http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Post your battle.net profile URL or your SC2ranks profile URL so I can add you or just add yourself to the list directly










Great idea:
TBH, not sure how to add to the list directly. I'll try and find the SC2 url though









Quote:



Originally Posted by *alienguts*


jesus, how do you all discuss strategy so much. talk less, play more.

credibility: I was platinum before diamond existed.


Discussing strategy is key to playing. Example, there is no point in making roaches if my opponent goes heavy marauders. Better to add in slings, possibly blings for some damage, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


thats coool,now here's a cookie now begone troll












Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


I was truing to play SC2 today and it hangs in the login screen. The background hang but the musics still plays. Also yesterday i had to repair the game 3 time to get it to play. Does anyone have this problem. The only changes i have made is installed Nvidias new driver (they are perfect from what people say in OCN)


Not really, no, the only problem I have is that if the game goes for a long time, the game ends up freezing and I have to force it to close using task manager which is very inconvenient since I lost the replays of some intense games







My advice would be to return to the previous drivers to see if the issue is fixed. Yes, then wait on or try other drivers, not the one you just tried, otherwise, if it's not fixed, it's something else with your system









Edit: Here's the SC2 rankings URL: http://sc2ranks.com/team/7232453
Not the greatest, but, meh it's a result of disconnects, some bad playing earlier on with MMM balls and other stuff








Edit2: Name and code in sig


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


I was truing to play SC2 today and it hangs in the login screen. The background hang but the musics still plays. Also yesterday i had to repair the game 3 time to get it to play. Does anyone have this problem. The only changes i have made is installed Nvidias new driver (they are perfect from what people say in OCN)


Try your previous drivers then. If they're new then how can people know if it's perfect or not?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Great idea:
TBH, not sure how to add to the list directly. I'll try and find the SC2 url though









Discussing strategy is key to playing. Example, there is no point in making roaches if my opponent goes heavy marauders. Better to add in slings, possibly blings for some damage, etc....










Not really, no, the only problem I have is that if the game goes for a long time, the game ends up freezing and I have to force it to close using task manager which is very inconvenient since I lost the replays of some intense games







My advice would be to return to the previous drivers to see if the issue is fixed. Yes, then wait on or try other drivers, not the one you just tried, otherwise, if it's not fixed, it's something else with your system









Edit: Here's the SC2 rankings URL: http://sc2ranks.com/team/7232453
Not the greatest, but, meh it's a result of disconnects, some bad playing earlier on with MMM balls and other stuff










Don't worry I added you anyway since I know your ID and code


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Don't worry I added you anyway since I know your ID and code










ok, thanks. My points look pretty bad compared to yours, lol. Also, my win= your loss


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *alienguts*


jesus, how do you all discuss strategy so much. talk less, play more.

credibility: I was platinum before diamond existed.


Some of us are at work/school, use laptop, are too drunk or simply need a break. This thread feeds our addiction.









Also I fail to see a relation between your claimed skill level and how others should manage their time. And btw being platinum in beta of newly released game doesn't exactly equal iccup A-.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


ok, thanks. My points look pretty bad compared to yours, lol. Also, my win= your loss










lol yeah that's a result of me actually laddering, I used to have a 1:1 ratio until last week and I've been on a roll ever since


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Try your previous drivers then. If they're new then how can people know if it's perfect or not?

Don't worry I added you anyway since I know your ID and code










In general People claim Nvidia driver to be superior of Atis but never had so much frustration with nvidia drivers. One other problem i had in SC2 is that when i was playing youtube and then go to SC2 it would get stuck in 2D clock and lag like hell and even if i would turn of fire fox it would not fix the problem unless i restard and this happens with any vidoe that i play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Some of us are at work/school, use laptop, are *too drunk *or simply need a break. This thread feeds our addiction.









Also I fail to see a relation between your claimed skill level and how others should manage their time. And btw being platinum in beta of newly released game doesn't exactly equal iccup A-.










at bolded. Although, you are correct, it feeds our SC2 addiction









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


lol yeah that's a result of me actually laddering, I used to have a 1:1 ratio until last week and I've been on a roll ever since










nice, I'm pretty confident that I'll eventually get there. My internet is still acting up during the day so I only get a chance to play a game or two at night







and lately I've been making bad mistakes against my opponents using my current losing streak as evidence








Oh, I did forget to mention that I realized in most of my games, I usually wait for their first attack instead of attacking and then rebuilding, probably a bad idea and the reason that I lost those games as well. zealots+stalkers+immortals+colossi are unstoppable


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


In general People claim Nvidia driver to be superior of Atis but never had so much frustration with nvidia drivers. One other problem i had in SC2 is that when i was playing youtube and then go to SC2 it would get stuck in 2D clock and lag like hell and even if i would turn of fire fox it would not fix the problem unless i restard and this happens with any vidoe that i play.


General claims have no standing when you're talking about brand new drivers.
Getting stuck in 2D clocks is a problem Nvidia cards had in past drivers, I thought that was fixed..


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


In general People claim Nvidia driver to be superior of Atis but never had so much frustration with nvidia drivers. One other problem i had in SC2 is that when i was playing youtube and then go to SC2 it would get stuck in 2D clock and lag like hell and even if i would turn of fire fox it would not fix the problem unless i restard and this happens with any vidoe that i play.


Don't recall having this problem with my gpu, however, I haven't changed my drivers in ages. I'm still using the 197.6 or so drivers that blizzard recommended during beta since I'm using an 8800 gpu and most new driver releases target the 400 series


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*









at bolded. Although, you are correct, it feeds our SC2 addiction









nice, I'm pretty confident that I'll eventually get there. My internet is still acting up during the day so I only get a chance to play a game or two at night







and lately I've been making bad mistakes against my opponents using my current losing streak as evidence








Oh, I did forget to mention that I realized in most of my games, I usually wait for their first attack instead of attacking and then rebuilding, probably a bad idea and the reason that I lost those games as well. zealots+stalkers+immortals+colossi are unstoppable










From my experience, I've mostly been defeated by either zergs who have a way better macro than I (and can beat me with roach or roach hydra) or zergs who go muta ling.


----------



## EmMure

so my game is doing the same thing s zealots,its hanging at login


----------



## Domino

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er* 
In general People claim Nvidia driver to be superior of Atis but never had so much frustration with nvidia drivers. One other problem i had in SC2 is that when i was playing youtube and then go to SC2 it would get stuck in 2D clock and lag like hell and even if i would turn of fire fox it would not fix the problem unless i restard and this happens with any vidoe that i play.

Don't worry, at least yours doesn't crash when switching from 3d to 2d clocks in a 3d app.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I've created an OCN Division on SC2ranks to keep track of each other's progress









http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Post your battle.net profile URL or your SC2ranks profile URL so I can add you or just add yourself to the list directly









edit: or you can just post your character name + code and I'll just search for your profile.

DoomDash 190.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
DoomDash 190.

Added.

Let's populate this list guys








Link and instructions in my sig.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I've created an OCN Division on SC2ranks to keep track of each other's progress









http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Post your battle.net profile URL or your SC2ranks profile URL so I can add you or just add yourself to the list directly









edit: or you can just post your character name + code and I'll just search for your profile.

That's a pretty cool feature


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
That's a pretty cool feature









Yeah it's pretty sweet. Better than any list you could make on OCN except that you can't add the OCN nickname.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
From my experience, I've mostly been defeated by either zergs who have a way better macro than I (and can beat me with roach or roach hydra) or zergs who go muta ling.

Interesting that you mention this. I usually expand early for the gas then slowly add drones, but, sometimes I forget about getting the drones, since, I'm concentrating on my main and spending my minerals on some units so that I'm not caught with barely any units. I was going pretty heavy with slings+blings+mutalisks lately, however, against P, slings+blings aren't as effective as they are against T due to the hp difference which is probably the main reason I was losing against P.
For some odd reason, I've also stopped using roaches completely, so, I'm trying to get back into that. I think it's more that I'm pretty worried about having no AA without teching up and since roaches don't attack air units, it feels *almost* like a risk to get them since I can use the money for the upgrade to lair or for the spire, etc.... Having said that, I've decided to always get a roach warren since with the range increase and with their hp+damage, they are still effective against zealots and decent enough against stalkers


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah it's pretty sweet. Better than any list you could make on OCN except that you can't add the OCN nickname.

We should add a link to it in the first post of this thread, otherwise it's going to get lost in the dozens of pages in here.


----------



## EmMure

heezay 816


----------



## ThumperSD

not sure how I can add myself, can you add me? id in sig

and when viewing my profile on that website it shows me with my old portrait


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow I cant even log into bnet... SC2 locks up at the login screen


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
not sure how I can add myself, can you add me? id in sig

and when viewing my profile on that website it shows me with my old portrait

Added.

I think you have to manuall update the portrait by clicking on Queue refresh. The stats seem more or less up to date. If they aren't then they might update themselves more often if someone visits the page (some stats website function by updating when visited or by manually updating).


----------



## EmMure

Woot more then 1 person is having the issue


----------



## Tchernobyl

tchernobyl 907 >.>


----------



## Wishmaker

I hate this game. The AI is killing me on hard







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Wow I cant even log into bnet... SC2 locks up at the login screen


Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
Woot more then 1 person is having the issue

hmm, I decided to make sure that this isn't happening to me and guess what, it is happening. The game says loading and then the game freezes with no login-in box, just the blue screen with all the stars and the planet frozen. Anyone know a reason for this?









Edit: Checked the battle.net website. It's down for maintenance, very odd to say the least!


----------



## EmMure

thiru,heezay 816 add me please


----------



## onoz

Guys,

I haven't read through enough posts to see if it's already been talked about here, but the Thor rush is still rockin' it. I just got 3 1v1s in a row using the thor rush.


----------



## eljitto

uhh. i reinstalled starcraft II, only to now find it isn't just a problem for me :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onoz* 
Guys,

I haven't read through enough posts to see if it's already been talked about here, but the Thor rush is still rockin' it. I just got 3 1v1s in a row using the thor rush.

I've had 2 thor rushes ever in my 1vs1 and I lost to both of them since I didn't scout in time and didn't implement the magic box or micro well enough either.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
I hate this game. The AI is killing me on hard







.

The AI has its playing pros and cons.

On the good side, it will always be available to play with you.

On the bad side though, it never accounts for human errors, and it does everything with precision and never lets up. Also, it has a tendency to know what you're doing at times. For example, a few times it decided to mass Ghosts. Another time it decided to rush me with Dark Templars. It's just bizarre at times, but I have managed to legitimately beat it on Very Hard.

In other selfish news, I uninstalled the game last night. After playing with my Diamond-ranked friend, I finally admitted that this game isn't for me. I'm horrible at multi-tasking (the game did help me improve with that, but not enough), and when a game becomes a frustrating chore to try and be better for no real life-related gain, it's not worth it.


----------



## thiru

Added everyone so far.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
I hate this game. The AI is killing me on hard







.

Watch Day9's newbie tuesday episodes and any other his videos that are relevant to your race. WORKERS AND SUPPLY.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
hmm, I decided to make sure that this isn't happening to me and guess what, it is happening. The game says loading and then the game freezes with no login-in box, just the blue screen with all the stars and the planet frozen. Anyone know a reason for this?









Edit: Checked the battle.net website. It's down for maintenance, very odd to say the least!

EU battle.net works









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
thiru,heezay 816 add me please

Added, I thought you were zerg though


----------



## EmMure

i am zerg lol


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eljitto* 
uhh. i reinstalled starcraft II, only to now find it isn't just a problem for me :/

I reinstalled too. Waste of time apparently.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
i am zerg lol

Oh, then the stats haven't updated then because it thinks your main race is Protoss.

Yeah I do think that this stats site updates profiles when they are visited.


----------



## xHassassin

WHY IS BATTLENETDOWN

I JUST GOT SCII YESTERDAY

Universe hates me.


----------



## EmMure

i have most of my games at toss is why,and yea i can see cause im well over 500 points for achievement


----------



## Chef Bobert

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I reinstalled too. Waste of time apparently.

Yay im not the only one who reinstalled lol


----------



## DoomDash

?/?????????


----------



## Nevaziah

VDek, my Id is Nevaziah and my code is 101 if you want to add me to the OCN list.
And also for anyone who wants to add me on bnet for practices or team matches.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
We should add a link to it in the first post of this thread, otherwise it's going to get lost in the dozens of pages in here.

I would, but the OP of this thread doesn't respond to PMs (that's why half the links don't work) and doesn't follow the thread at all. I should ask him to pass ownership of the thread..

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
?/?????????

?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
VDek, my Id is Nevaziah and my code is 101 if you want to add me to the OCN list.
And also for anyone who wants to add me on bnet for practices or team matches.

Added.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh, then the stats haven't updated then because it thinks your main race is Protoss.

Yeah I do think that this stats site updates profiles when they are visited.

It's because he's played mostly toss and recently made the switch to zerg









Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
WHY IS BATTLENETDOWN

I JUST GOT SCII YESTERDAY

Universe hates me.



Good question on why it's down? Answer, no clue


----------



## ThumperSD

Was able to log in 40-50 minutes ago


----------



## ThumperSD

LOL I have a total of 11 1v1 games =P

Im going to start playing 1v1 one of these days to get my diamond


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do what day9 does, 5 wins in 1v1 ladder games a day at least.


----------



## EmMure

they really need to do something about cruiser's i just got destory cause some how the kid how 10 cruisers in 15 mins with me harassing him and i even put corrupptors up and still got destoryed,seriously ***,they need to nerf there weapons atleast esp yamat,and make the build time longer


----------



## DoomDash

Don't let him get to Cruisers, or take the map if he is getting them. They are very beatable.


----------



## EmMure

i had 3 exp's 1 being yellow,he turtled with siege so i went muta's killed most of his tanks but lost my muta's caause of his battles,i went corr's and broods and still got demo'd i had a health supply of corr's and i get destoryd cause he yamat's my ****


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
they really need to do something about cruiser's i just got destory cause some how the kid how 10 cruisers in 15 mins with me harassing him and i even put corrupptors up and still got destoryed,seriously ***,they need to nerf there weapons atleast esp yamat,and make the build time longer

If you didnt know the BCs were coming, you should have scouted more. Once you see the fusion core, pump out stalkers/void rays. Void rays arent that strong against BCs anymore though.

Ive never been in a 1v1 where my opponent made BCs without me knowing. I always have an obs in his base. You might have a window of opportunity to harass/attack while hes teching to BCs.


----------



## EmMure

im zerg.............


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Ive never been in a 1v1 where my opponent made BCs without me knowing..

Map hacker!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im zerg.............

Sorry


----------



## EmMure

and i just watchd the replay i had 15 corrs,9 muta's and he didnt lose 1 BC outta his 14,he must have techd them up fully


----------



## poroboszcz

I've seen BCs in a ladder game recently. Fortunately I had more carriers by then + HTs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Let's populate this list guys








Link and instructions in my sig.

My ID is in my sig.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
and i just watchd the replay i had 15 corrs,9 muta's and he didnt lose 1 BC outta his 14,he must have techd them up fully

Loos like you just got outmacro'ed. If he made only marines you'd lose as well.

14 corruptors + 9 mutas = 3000/2300
15 BCs = 6000/4500

I think I encountered mass BCs in a 4v4 once as zerg and they totally melted to focus firing corruptors + corruption.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
My ID is in my sig.

You guys can add yourselves manually to save thiru the effort -

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Click "manage characters" on the right side and paste in either your sc2ranks.com or battle.net character URL.

Edit: went ahead and added you.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
and i just watchd the replay i had 15 corrs,9 muta's and he didnt lose 1 BC outta his 14,he must have techd them up fully

Well you needed something like 2 to 3 times as many corrupters to take on that many BCs. Don't let him get the BCs in the first place or expand like mad while he makes BCs so that you can afford a lot of corrupters.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
You guys can add yourselves manually to save thiru the effort -

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Click "manage characters" on the right side and paste in either your sc2ranks.com or battle.net character URL.

Edit: went ahead and added you.

Thanks


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im zerg.............

Sorry


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
and i just watchd the replay i had 15 corrs,9 muta's and he didnt lose 1 BC outta his 14,he must have techd them up fully

If you post the replay, we can give you better advice.. if he didnt lose a single BC against your army, then it sounds like his micro > your micro


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
If you post the replay, we can give you better advice.. if he didnt lose a single BC against your army, then it sounds like his micro > your micro

15 corrupters vs 14 BCs is a macro or scouting issue, not micro.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
15 corrupters vs 14 BCs is a macro or scouting issue, not micro.

You misunderstood me. I said he the terran did not lose a single BC to the 15 corrupters, it sounds like they werent focus firing and terran was just microing his injured BCs back

15 bcs wont kill 15 corrupters with no deaths unless you have a **** load of SCVs repairing


----------



## EmMure

i failed to use corruption was my own fault


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You misunderstood me. I said he the terran did not lose a single BC to the 15 corrupters, it sounds like they werent focus firing and terran was just microing his injured BCs back

15 bcs wont kill 15 corrupters with no deaths unless you have a **** load of SCVs repairing

Oh sorry.

Yamato?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
i failed to use corruption was my own fault

Like I said, if you post the replay, Id gladly tell you what went wrong.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh sorry.

Yamato?









Even with Yamato, the BCs shouldnt have all survived


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
and i just watchd the replay i had 15 corrs,9 muta's and he didnt lose 1 BC outta his 14,he must have techd them up fully

There is your problem. Remember, it's a 3:1 ratio, so, you should've had at least 42 corruptors to counter his 14 bcs, since, the amount of damage+cost would be almost even.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
15 corrupters vs 14 BCs is a macro or scouting issue, not micro.

Well, it could be micro, however, there is no way he would've won. He might have taken down one or two if he focused fired though, but, can't really tell with no replay.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You misunderstood me. I said he the terran did not lose a single BC to the 15 corrupters, it sounds like they werent focus firing and terran was just microing his injured BCs back

*15 bcs wont kill 15 corrupters with no deaths unless you have a **** load of SCVs repairing*

False. If he wasn't focus firing, then yes, the bc's will come out ahead with like a large amount of hp left. 1 on 1, bc's slaughter corruptors, but, when you take 3 vs 1 like it's supposed to be, the corruptors should win. More so when you focus fire the bc


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Not to mention you can make corruptors very quickly again while BC takes a while to build up. T3 units are quite easily countered once the scouting is done.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
False. If he wasn't focus firing, then yes, the bc's will come out ahead with like a large amount of hp left. 1 on 1, bc's slaughter corruptors, but, when you take 3 vs 1 like it's supposed to be, the corruptors should win. More so when you focus fire the bc









READ my post carefully

What I am saying is that 15 BCs should NOT kill 15 corrupters with all 15 BCs surviving. I am NOT saying that 15 BCs will lose to 15 corrupters. If all 15 BCs survived, the corrupters were either killed out of position one by one (which I doubt since they will likely be grouped together) or the corrupters were not focusing down on an individual BC or the terran just microed his injured BC back.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
READ my post carefully

What I am saying is that 15 BCs should NOT kill 15 corrupters with all 15 BCs surviving. I am NOT saying that 15 BCs will lose to 15 corrupters. If all 15 BCs survived, the corrupters were either killed out of position one by one (which I doubt since they will likely be grouped together) or the corrupters were not focusing down on an individual BC or the terran just microed his injured BC back.

Yes I did read it carefully, but, I think you should RE-READ mine carefully. I didn't say anywhere that the BCs will lose to the corruptors, but, what I said was that if he DIDN'T focus fire, then NONE of the bc's should die, but, all the corruptors will be killed. Corruptors do 20 damage and fire pretty slowly. They also have 200hp compared to 550hp for bc's with a rapid fire rate at 6 damage a hit and that DOESN'T include their armor of 3, so, their attacks are pretty close but with the higher hp, the bc should come out on top by a long shot. Again, this *assumes* that the battle was a *1 vs 1*, as in *one corruptor per one bc*, so, as mentioned in my post above, then all the bc's should survive. In the case that it *isn't* a 1 vs 1, then it's *pretty difficult* to tell how many *bc's might be killed*, but, either way, they will still come out on top


----------



## thiru

Who cares?


----------



## DoomDash

Everyone.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Who cares?

TBH, I don't really care







I know from my experience that 3:1 is the ratio you want for corruptors vs. bc's and carriers and that you need to focus fire and ambush your opponent to get the first hit


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes I did read it carefully, but, I think you should RE-READ mine carefully. I didn't say anywhere that the BCs will lose to the corruptors, but, what I said was that if he DIDN'T focus fire, then NONE of the bc's should die, but, all the corruptors will be killed. Corruptors do 20 damage and fire pretty slowly. They also have 200hp compared to 550hp for bc's with a rapid fire rate at 6 damage a hit and that DOESN'T include their armor of 3, so, their attacks are pretty close but with the higher hp, the bc should come out on top by a long shot. Again, this *assumes* that the battle was a *1 vs 1*, as in *one corruptor per one bc*, so, as mentioned in my post above, then all the bc's should survive. In the case that it *isn't* a 1 vs 1, then it's *pretty difficult* to tell how many *bc's might be killed*, but, either way, they will still come out on top









Got ya. I guess that could be the case if each corrupter was attacking an individual BC. But how often do each of the 15 corrupters attack an individual BC? They usually attack whatever BC is the closest so there should be at least several corrupters attacking one BC by default without focusing. I guess it depends on positioning which we cant determine without the replay.

Soooo... focus fire people!! try to take down the BCs with the lowest HP first


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Everyone.











Anyways, I just finished watching the first couple of matches for the GSL 2. Great games. My thoughts:
I liked that boxer went with the old style of tanks+marines and it was nice to see the PDD in action since I wasn't entirely sure how it is different from the turret, since, turrets attack the air as well if I recall correctly. I liked fruitdealer first game as he went against the proxies and the InCa and NexGenius games were great. Mass roaches are definitely powerful units, more so than before









Where is the spoiler tag button? Can't seem to find it


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Got ya. I guess that could be the case if each corrupter was attacking an individual BC. But how often do each of the 15 corrupters attack an individual BC? They usually attack whatever BC is the closest so there should be at least several corrupters attacking one BC by default without focusing. I guess it depends on positioning which we cant determine without the replay.

Soooo... focus fire people!! try to take down the BCs with the lowest HP first

I agree, technically, they won't focus each on a different bcs. It was just an example of how you can have them all survive







He should have focused fired either way


----------



## thiru

Yay I got the Unbreakable achievement









40 kills with a single unit. Hero colossus!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yay I got the Unbreakable achievement









40 kills with a single unit. Hero colossus!









hmm, are you on right now? Wanna go for a 1vs1 game? I'm interested to see how your strat has changed since we last did battle!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
hmm, are you on right now? Wanna go for a 1vs1 game? I'm interested to see how your strat has changed since we last did battle!









I think Doomdash is laddering on huggle right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I think Doomdash is laddering on huggle right now.

np, maybe a bit later on


----------



## DoomDash

Now up to 13 wins in a row on my smurf Diamond account / gfs account. All vs 1300-1400~ players.


----------



## thiru

SC2 needs more ladder-related achievements. Who cares about single player achievements?

More win streak achiements, killing X stuff in Y seconds, etc.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Now up to 13 wins in a row on my smurf Diamond account / gfs account. All vs 1300-1400~ players.

Smurt account? lol, I'm guessing you mean the huggle one


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
SC2 needs more ladder-related achievements. Who cares about single player achievements?

More win streak achiements, killing X stuff in Y seconds, etc.

Agreed


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Smurt account? lol, I'm guessing you mean the huggle one









Yes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
SC2 needs more ladder-related achievements. Who cares about single player achievements?

More win streak achiements, killing X stuff in Y seconds, etc.

I know, I am 114819844% in agreement. In beta they had win streaks!!! So pissed @ Blizzard.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Agreed









Doomdash's done with laddering, you want to play?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I know, I am 114819844% in agreement. In beta they had win streaks!!! So pissed @ Blizzard.

I think there's ONE achievement for win streaks for 1v1 ladder, at 3 or 5 wins, and another one for team ladder.


----------



## DoomDash

I would like to see a 10 wins in a row achievement. 5 wins is sooo easy.


----------



## rhed5

thiru, add me to your league jediwin #713


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
thiru, add me to your league jediwin #713

Added.
We played a 3v3 or something the other day. I don't remember whose friend you are









edit: Nevaziah's?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I would like to see a 10 wins in a row achievement. 5 wins is sooo easy.

lol, maybe for you it is, but, TBH as zerg, I had a hard time getting the 5 win one









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Doomdash's done with laddering, you want to play?
I think there's ONE achievement for win streaks for 1v1 ladder, at 3 or 5 wins, and another one for team ladder.

Sure, but, give me 10-20min or so. I need to get something done first


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, maybe for you it is, but, TBH as zerg, I had a hard time getting the 5 win one









Yeah but what I'm saying is the achievements aren't needed, so why not make some an actual challenge.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah but what I'm saying is the achievements aren't needed, so why not make some an actual challenge.

yes, I see your point now


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...yLOL.SC2Replay

Proxy'd a protoss on jungle basin. Was rather an all-in though, as we pretty much exchanged bases XD But i won! bwah hah ha


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...yLOL.SC2Replay

Proxy'd a protoss on jungle basin. Was rather an all-in though, as we pretty much exchanged bases XD But i won! bwah hah ha


You... proxy'd... as zerg? lol I have to see this. Proxy hatch in his natural?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...yLOL.SC2Replay

Proxy'd a protoss on jungle basin. Was rather an all-in though, as we pretty much exchanged bases XD But i won! bwah hah ha


lol, nice









Disclaimer: I have not watched this replay and based my comments on the provided info


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You... proxy'd... as zerg? lol I have to see this. Proxy hatch in his natural?


I've done that before to a toss as well on blistering sands. Build a hatchery right next to his nexus and with his zealots near my base, he wasn't able to do anything about it. Suffice to say, I took that game








Up for a game?


----------



## Tchernobyl

yep! I snuck in a drone after starting building my first, so it was quick. He'd actually already built a pylon (or was in the process of) and should have seen me go by, but he didn't notice. Let me put a drone in his natural.

You'll see in the replay i made a mistake and built the hatchery at the wrong spot (though any closer, as in the natural expansion, and he would have seen it), and had to destroy the rocks... still, it worked out, kinda


----------



## DoomDash

Proxy hatch on that map is actually really good vs a player who doesnt scout well.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I'd watched some match earlier.. maybe it was a gsl match? Or something else, probably not gsl, where a zerg proxy'd a terran. And it worked well, much better than what I did. So i figured hey, the expansion's pretty good.. i should give it a try! and voila


----------



## thiru

Should have spine crawler rushed instead of going roaches


----------



## Tchernobyl

I went roaches so I could actually kill those rocks


----------



## BigFan

Just watched the replay, nice. I once had a probe slip into my base, *hide* behind a tree and then build a pylon later on in the game to wrap in dts. I ended up losing since I checked at the start of the game and didn't see any pylons. Warping using pylons is pretty interesting, definitely makes games more intense especially if your opponent wraps in a large number to reinforce his army









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Should have spine crawler rushed instead of going roaches











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I went roaches so I could actually kill those rocks










That would've been interesting with the spine crawlers, but, I do see his point about roaches. Also, with spine crawlers, it would've been a headache trying to move them across the map, so, either way you would've need roaches later on and that might have given him enough time to recover


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Proxy pylons are very interesting. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't though. When they do, it's really cool. Warp prisms are better in some ways, because they can move.


----------



## DoomDash

Did you guys see that 2 immortal drop / warp gate timing drop/warp in vs idrA @ MLG? **** was awesome.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Did you guys see that 2 immortal drop / warp gate timing drop/warp in vs idrA @ MLG? **** was awesome.

Unfortunately, I missed that game, but, I'm watching the GSL 2. More intense games than some of the MLG ones


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Unfortunately, I missed that game, but, I'm watching the GSL 2. More intense games than some of the MLG ones









There are a lot of greener players in the RO64 right now so I disagree. A lot of the MLG games were awesome.

edit: greener than other GSL players, not greener than MLG, which had its share of green players of course (I wouldn't know how many, didn't watch the first games)


----------



## DoomDash

I'm totally going to have to agree that a lot of not so great players also made it into the Ro64. That 16 year old Zerg player who didn't spread his creep this morning comes to mind.

The MLG games were all high level from the ones I saw. I really recommend that game vs idrA. It was kiwikaki vs idra I think.

I think idrA plays in GSL2 tonight in 2 hours.

I just want boxer ( slayers_boxer / manofoneway ) to win.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


SC2 needs more ladder-related achievements. Who cares about single player achievements?

More win streak achiements, killing X stuff in Y seconds, etc.


I also agree


----------



## SPARTAN-001

I really need to work on my SC2 game more, but I've just been swamped with homework recently... I'm still in bronze.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Just watched the replay, nice. I once had a probe slip into my base, *hide* behind a tree and then build a pylon later on in the game to wrap in dts. I ended up losing since I checked at the start of the game and didn't see any pylons. Warping using pylons is pretty interesting, definitely makes games more intense especially if your opponent wraps in a large number to reinforce his army









That would've been interesting with the spine crawlers, but, I do see his point about roaches. Also, with spine crawlers, it would've been a headache trying to move them across the map, so, either way you would've need roaches later on and that might have given him enough time to recover










I actually did proxy spine cralwers in one game a few weeks back. I had just watched the no queen day9 vids and saw someone do it, so I tried the same. It didn't actually work, but it kept him inside his base for the longest time and I eventually managed to beat him. I even posted a replay which no one ever watched/commented on









http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay Is the one in question


----------



## ThumperSD

Is GSL2 live right now? Can somebody link me?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Proxy pylons and warp prims are thee cornerstone of my toss game in any match up. As day9 said, in the beginning of the game you want to build gates, but during mid to late game you want war prism to harass in multiple fronts. Kulas ravine was one of my favourite maps when I kept pylons at wierd locations and used it to surround enemy forces. Very fun strat.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Is GSL2 live right now? Can somebody link me?

No, not for 1:30 more. gomtv.net or just go to teamliquid, click video, and live streamers and you can generally find people streaming it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I actually did proxy spine cralwers in one game a few weeks back. I had just watched the no queen day9 vids and saw someone do it, so I tried the same. It didn't actually work, but it kept him inside his base for the longest time and I eventually managed to beat him. I even posted a replay which no one ever watched/commented on









http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay Is the one in question









I lol'd.
But seriously, 13,000 minerals?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Is GSL2 live right now? Can somebody link me?

It's in an hour and a half. If you want to watch it without GOMtv just go on TL and look for any stream with >1000 viewers.


----------



## ThumperSD

Cool... im assuming it's in Korea given the odd time? What is the GSL website? I want to see the bracket

I hope tester's playing


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/news/238

Tester didn't qualify this time :O!!!!


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Cool... im assuming it's in Korea given the odd time? What is the GSL website? I want to see the bracket

I hope tester's playing


Yeah it's in Korea (lol where've you been all this time?)
The official website is gomtv.net.

Unfortunately Tester didn't qualify. I don't even know who the good protoss are in the tournament.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doomdash* 
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/news/238

tester didn't qualify this time







!!!!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
yeah it's in korea (lol where've you been all this time?)
the official website is gomtv.net.

Unfortunately tester didn't qualify. I don't even know who the good protoss are in the tournament.

f m l.. oh well, it's always fun to watch idra, TLO and fruitdealer play


----------



## yellowtoblerone

TOP didn't qualify either if I rem correctly.


----------



## squall325

Guys! Lets play some SC. I'm on SEA and can play with NA. add me Jacal 736. I'm not that good tho. btw, toss user here.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
f m l.. oh well, it's always fun to watch idra, TLO and fruitdealer play

TLO played already and is out. Sorry







. Almost had it but a Protoss did a very good map abuse timing push.


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow TLO and idra are the only non-koreans who qualified lol


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


TLO played already and is out. Sorry







. Almost had it but a Protoss did a very good map abuse timing push.


Who was the protoss? And what type of push exactly?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I actually did proxy spine cralwers in one game a few weeks back. I had just watched the no queen day9 vids and saw someone do it, so I tried the same. It didn't actually work, but it kept him inside his base for the longest time and I eventually managed to beat him. I even posted a replay which no one ever watched/commented on









http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernoby...hung.SC2Replay Is the one in question









Nice work, haven't seen it yet, but, will try to









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah it's in Korea (lol where've you been all this time?)
The official website is gomtv.net.

Unfortunately Tester didn't qualify. I don't even know who the good protoss are in the tournament.

NexGenius and InCa are both probably the best protoss in the tournament


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Who was the protoss? And what type of push exactly?

You should do yourself a favor and just watch:

http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/videos

Also, one other non-korean made it ( Loner from China ).


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You should do yourself a favor and just watch:

http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/videos

Also, one other non-korean made it ( Loner from China ).

Thanks.. had no idea there was a replay already


----------



## arctia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Who was the protoss? And what type of push exactly?

Former Broodwar pro. Falsely accused of fixing matches, ended up ruining his career. Glad he's making comeback. Sad that TLO was matched against him first round.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You should do yourself a favor and just watch:

http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/videos

Also, one other non-korean made it ( Loner from China ).


Exactly where I'm watching the games, great website


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Exactly where I'm watching the games, great website










Justin's a streaming/video website. That's like saying youtube is a great website


----------



## DoomDash

Youtube is a great website.


----------



## DoomDash

Let's all take a moment to reflect on boxer being in the GSL2!!!

  
 You Tube


----------



## ThumperSD

Just watched it, TLO did get outplayed 2 out of those 3 games

BabyByebye is pretty damn good


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think he got out played game 3, but he def was not ready for it. I'm pretty confident that TLO is a better player... of course I'm just full of opinions aren't I?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't think he got out played game 3, but he def was not ready for it. I'm pretty confident that TLO is a better player... of course I'm just full of opinions aren't I?

If he wasnt ready, that is being outplayed to me. Not saying Babybyebye is the better player, but I think he did play better in those 2 wins. The last game (and probably the second) wasnt really long enough to judge too much. I wish each match was best of 5 instead of 3.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Let's all take a moment to reflect on boxer being in the GSL2!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_rryblADg

Nice video. Makes me wish I tried the ladder in BW


----------



## DoomDash

IDK if I can 100% agree with that. I've lost to some cheesy builds before but I didn't feel I was being out played... I just felt I lost to a cheesy build.

I laddered in BW. I also had battlereports of me from the year 2000 lol: 
http://www.battlereports.com/viewrep...reportnum=2809

Old sk00l.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont consider it cheese. Backdoors are a part of some maps and top level players should know this. If babybyebye didnt setup a proxy behind that backdoor but destroyed the backdoor instead (and then allowing him the two way attack path), would you still consider it cheese?


----------



## DoomDash

I didn't say it was a cheese, I said it was a map specific abuse. I gave the example of cheese for my own losses.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I lol'd.
But seriously, 13,000 minerals?
.



To be honest, I was mostly looking at my gas bar. At one point I glanced at my minerals and saw 13k, and went









I had no idea I had that much! But admittedly, there's not much I could have done with it. All those PF's would have melted my zergling hordes to shreds If I'd dumped the 13k into them


----------



## DoomDash

GSL has started.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I didn't say it was a cheese, I said it was a map specific abuse. I gave the example of cheese for my own losses.


I cant read for crap today my fault


----------



## DoomDash

holy **** a bc rush.


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow terran ****ed up by positioning his marines behind that backdoor


----------



## DoomDash

He wasn't very good.


----------



## DoomDash

mothership ... ***.


----------



## EmMure

i realized i need to keep my main focus on fps games lol sc2 just makes me 2 angry facing cheese's 24/7


----------



## ThumperSD

I just got out of the shower, and turned GSL back on and I see a mothership with HP in the single digits!! I gotta watch this replay


----------



## DoomDash

wow that match was nuts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i realized i need to keep my main focus on fps games lol sc2 just makes me 2 angry facing cheese's 24/7


lol, cheese can be easy win if you can counter it properly. Example, 6 pool, just keeping on building like normal and when he attacks, use your drones. You should be able to take all his lings down if you surround them, otherwise, if he micros well, he'll wait until you go back to mining to attack again, etc.... I've had to face several cheese as well, recently, I had a guy block my ramp with 2 pylons+photo cannons right before I got lings, so, I was stuck in my base for a while until I made a crawler and took pylons down from high ground suffering no damage at all, so, my lings can safely take out the cannon. I ended up losing that game







My point is, scout early and if you notice anything odd(forge first in base, probe hanging around your base, etc....), there is a very high chance of some cheese play since they could be saving up money to build pylons+cannons. If you can try to attack before the pylon(s) are down with your drones, they should be able to take it down before he has a cannon up







Besides, fps games are fun but you need the variety







Just keep on practicing


----------



## DoomDash

I loved FPS like mad growing up and all the way through HS, but god damn are they played out.


----------



## DoomDash

So far : Set 1 = 1 bc rush

Set 2 = 1 mothership rush

Set 3 = bc rush


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Added.

Let's populate this list guys








Link and instructions in my sig.


Derp. You know my stuff


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I loved FPS like mad growing up and all the way through HS, but god damn are they played out.


idk i have like 6 differnt fps games so i can mix it up abit but i will def work in abit of sc2 just cant play it for hours anymore i get 2 angry


----------



## elderfoster

been playing sc2 for a week like it so far. add me

Garamis
590


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So far : Set 1 = 1 bc rush

Set 2 = 1 mothership rush

Set 3 = bc rush


whose set is this?


----------



## thiru

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=162404

GO4SC2 bi-weekly cup is now in NA.

I have some GSL games to watch now









edit: EG IdrA is an anagram for... Idrage. Coincidence? I think not.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Proxy hatch again on jungle basin, vs a terran, and won XD

However he also killed my base. I need to work on keeping it alive/attacking faster so he doesn't have a force arriving when mine does...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Proxy hatch again on jungle basin, vs a terran, and won XD

However he also killed my base. I need to work on keeping it alive/attacking faster so he doesn't have a force arriving when mine does...


Maybe you should play more games straight up though. Proxies are a bad habit.


----------



## Tchernobyl

This is pretty much the first time i've ever proxy'd







i'm normally always doing straight games.


----------



## DoomDash

bad manner tvt on my huggle account. This is my current TvT build I think its pretty cool.

*Disclaimer, my hands were freezing when playing so I played crappy, but the build still worked great.


----------



## W4LNUT5

My first 1v1 game in a long time... lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 


bad manner tvt on my huggle account. This is my current TvT build I think its pretty cool.

*Disclaimer, my hands were freezing when playing so I played crappy, but the build still worked great.

He was quite polite tbh







Some time ago I had a player insulting me after the game for good 5 minutes, because I made 3 gate + stargate timing push against his pure marauder army. He kept explaining to me how bad of a player I am and how I only made it to platinum by rushing void rays in every game. He was gold I believe and kept covering my screen with insults while I was already in the middle of the next game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
He was quite polite tbh







Some time ago I had a player insulting me after the game for good 5 minutes, because I made 3 gate + stargate timing push against his pure marauder army. He kept explaining to me how bad of a player I am and how I only made it to platinum by rushing void rays in every game. He was gold I believe and kept covering my screen with insults while I was already in the middle of the next game.

lol, I told him the same thing. I've had some guy insult me because his marines and his base got taken down by my banelings maybe 5-6 minutes into the game even though he attacked first. Then he claimed that he is plat or diamond and said that I'm more likely silver. When I told him I am, he made it sounds like it's a bad thing. Turns out that he's gold and plat in 2vs2 and 3vs3, but, has no ranking in 1vs1, go figure!


----------



## Epona

Wewt, just bumped up to platinum!









And I really hate when people annoy you after a game, though I can say that when they insult you at the beginning of the game then you wipe the floor with them, a little bit of gloating is necessary.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Epona* 
Wewt, just bumped up to platinum!









And I really hate when people annoy you after a game, though I can say that when they insult you at the beginning of the game then you wipe the floor with them, a little bit of gloating is necessary.









Congrats and why would they insult you at the beginning of the game?









I've been having such bad games lately where I concentrate on my macro and as a result, I don't make enough units to counter. In a game today against a terran on Xelnaga Caverns, I was doing well macroing and was putting pressure on him. All I had to do was make more mutalisks and then harass his workers and would've taken the game easily, but, decided to extend it for fun and then next thing I know, both my base and exp are almost out of minerals+gas and I can't expand because his banshees and vikings are taken them down, so, eventually, I lost







It's very disappointing to lose 5 games in a row


----------



## thiru

Woooot









I lost against a 1200 diamond Protoss (first time I play against one!) who got me with a proxy pylon and 4 warpgates and then I won against a 900 diamond random (who played protoss terribly)










And after that win I got placed directly into platinum from silver


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 







Woooot









I lost against a 1200 diamond Protoss (first time I play against one!) who got me with a proxy pylon and 4 warpgates and then I won against a 900 diamond random (who played protoss terribly)









And after that win I got placed directly into platinum from silver
















That is awesome. Sometimes I play and I dont even realize who im matched up against. IM up to 1340 points and sometimes I play agaisnt 1300 diamonds and I dont realize why I get whooped.

Congratulations, at least you`re aware of what`s happneing


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
That is awesome. Sometimes I play and I dont even realize who im matched up against. IM up to 1340 points and sometimes I play agaisnt 1300 diamonds and I dont realize why I get whooped.

Congratulations, at least you`re aware of what`s happneing









Thanks








After the game he told me "wow you played really well for a silver" and one game later I was platinum


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Woooot









I lost against a 1200 diamond Protoss (first time I play against one!) who got me with a proxy pylon and 4 warpgates and then I won against a 900 diamond random (who played protoss terribly)









And after that win I got placed directly into platinum from silver









Congrats on the promotion


----------



## DoomDash

I'll have to start watching my six.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Woooot









I lost against a 1200 diamond Protoss (first time I play against one!) who got me with a proxy pylon and 4 warpgates and then I won against a 900 diamond random (who played protoss terribly)









And after that win I got placed directly into platinum from silver









Congrats, see you on the ladder


----------



## Epona

Just had the most epic 4v4 match ever. Lasted 70 minutes. If you feel so inclined, here's the replay.

http://www.4shared.com/file/8I_oGlnY...APGOOD4v4.html


----------



## xserpint

Hey all - looking for some 1s advice. Especially how to counter the new fast 7 roach push. Got smacked hard by that twice last night. Thinking about 1g/immortal or 1g/phoenix.

If anyone wants to add me, feel free to. I mostly play with a2k and ls2 people, but I will play with just about anyone.

serpint / 712 is my info.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Hey all - looking for some 1s advice. Especially how to counter the new fast 7 roach push. Got smacked hard by that twice last night. Thinking about 1g/immortal or 1g/phoenix.

If anyone wants to add me, feel free to. I mostly play with a2k and ls2 people, but I will play with just about anyone.

serpint / 712 is my info.


Use forcefields.
I don't think you want to waste 125/100 so that a phoenix can lift a 75/25 roach. Not to mention they're not going to be much use when hydras come around.

What the hell are a2k and ls2 people?


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Use forcefields.
I don't think you want to waste 125/100 so that a phoenix can lift a 75/25 roach. Not to mention they're not going to be much use when hydras come around.

What the hell are a2k and ls2 people?


a2k is a clan I play with and ls2 is a car site that a bunch of us play from.

I was thinking the 1g/phoenix to guard against muta harass as well. But yes, they are worthless against hydras.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


a2k is a clan I play with and ls2 is a car site that a bunch of us play from.

I was thinking the 1g/phoenix to guard against muta harass as well. But yes, they are worthless against hydras.


Zerg usually go either muta ling or roach hydra.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Zerg usually go either muta ling or roach hydra.


The two I played against last night went roach/hydra with muta harass. I got caught out of my base both times and got surrounded by burrowed roaches at chokes. Basically got stuck to 1b while the zerg expanded at will. Couldn't even launch a counter. Then they just moved mutas in to snipe workers with hit and runs until I was dead.

It might not have been so bad if I didn't get caught out while trying to probe/push them with my army. Even when I killed their army off, I couldn't rebuild fast enough to be ready for the next attacks.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Hey all - looking for some 1s advice. Especially how to counter the new fast 7 roach push. Got smacked hard by that twice last night. Thinking about 1g/immortal or 1g/phoenix.


I've encountered it as well. It's pretty strong. I'm now experimenting with 12gate/14forge buid as it counters 7rr quite easily and can punish zerg fast expanding with cannon + zealot push and also sets you up for FE. I believe a really fast 4 gate, with 10 pylon, gate and with chrono saved for wg tech would be on time as well. I wouldn't recommend 1 gate robo as most zergs will switch to muta ling after this push from my experience. 1 gate stargate with void rays could work, but I'm not sure about timings. Phoenixes fail against this pretty hard, you simply won't have enough ground army to defend.

Anyone knows if there will be a free stream from Blizzcon somewhere or I'd have to buy tickets to watch it online? I'm really excited for FruitDealer vs Tester game.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I've encountered it as well. It's pretty strong. I'm now experimenting with 12gate/14forge buid as it counters 7rr quite easily and can punish zerg fast expanding with cannon + zealot push and also sets you up for FE. I believe a really fast 4 gate, with 10 pylon, gate and with chrono saved for wg tech would be on time as well. I wouldn't recommend 1 gate robo as most zergs will switch to muta ling after this push from my experience. 1 gate stargate with void rays could work, but I'm not sure about timings. Phoenixes fail against this pretty hard, you simply won't have enough ground army to defend.

Anyone knows if there will be a free stream from Blizzcon somewhere or I'd have to buy tickets to watch it online? I'm really excited for FruitDealer vs Tester game.


I tried one game by 2g/sgate and it allowed me to kill their first push quick with 2 void rays doing all the work, but then they switched to mutas and I got annihilated. Roaches are quite the problem now for protoss since we can't hit them with range from tanks or marauders. Stalkers just get melted by them, so its not a good trade.


----------



## thiru

Get blink?


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Get blink?


7 roach is too fast for blink.

I'm starting to think fast immortals with phoenixes might be the best way. Throw in a couple zealots for support and its a game.

Going fast immortals with some light ground support, I could have two immortals ready by the time the roaches get to me if I don't go aggressive early. Two immortals would annihilate up to 8 roaches with some zealot/stalker support at a choke.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


7 roach is too fast for blink.

I'm starting to think fast immortals with phoenixes might be the best way. Throw in a couple zealots for support and its a game.

Going fast immortals with some light ground support, I could have two immortals ready by the time the roaches get to me if I don't go aggressive early. Two immortals would annihilate up to 8 roaches with some zealot/stalker support at a choke.


You can get blink faster than you can get 2 immortals. Except that you can throw more warpgates.

Zealots are just going to get kited if all you have are immortals and even phoenixes (4x2 damage? lol)

I'd rather get sentries than phoenixes, at least in the early game.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


I tried one game by 2g/sgate and it allowed me to kill their first push quick with 2 void rays doing all the work, but then they switched to mutas and I got annihilated. Roaches are quite the problem now for protoss since we can't hit them with range from tanks or marauders. Stalkers just get melted by them, so its not a good trade.


You should send your void rays to their base asap after defending the push and try to contain them for a while trying to do some damage. Also 2-3 void rays is really all you need. If they decide to go for hydras, you can expand and tech to colossus, which will win you the game in most cases. If they go for mutas, you can try switching to phoenixes since you already have stargate. I used to play this way, but gave up because my void ray micro sucks and I usually lose them without doing any real damage.

On 4 players maps 12 gate/14 forge is the safest bet imo, as it can stop 7rr, FE and late scouted 6pool.


----------



## Tchernobyl

stalkers still outrange and out-hp roaches. You'd have to try focusing on getting the same number or outnumber the roaches if possible. I tend to need to outnumber stalkers for my roaches to do well/survive, especially since zealots will be stopping them from reaching the stalkers.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You can get blink faster than you can get 2 immortals. Except that you can throw more warpgates.

Zealots are just going to get kited if all you have are immortals and even phoenixes (4x2 damage? lol)

I'd rather get sentries than phoenixes, at least in the early game.


I was mostly tossing phoenixes around for their graviton beam. Taking two or three roaches out of a fight can quickly change the whole push while giving you a fast counter to go snipe a queen or some drones.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


I was mostly tossing phoenixes around for their graviton beam. Taking two or three roaches out of a fight can quickly change the whole push while giving you a fast counter to go snipe a queen or some drones.


3 immortals can also quickly change the whole push by one shotting roaches and tanking damage for your other units.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


3 immortals can also quickly change the whole push by one shotting roaches and tanking damage for your other units.


Is it even possible to have 3 immortals against a 7r push?


----------



## DoomDash

Immortals > Roach.

All you need is one with some other units vs that amount.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Is it even possible to have 3 immortals against a 7r push?


Probably not but you seem to think it's possible to have immortals and phoenixes.

edit: and I'd very much rather have one immortal than one and a half phoenixes.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Probably not but you seem to think it's possible to have immortals and phoenixes.


Not at the same time. I'm saying have the stargate on order FOR phoenixes to be out soon after the push. If you can get two phoenixes out soon after the push, a quick queen snipe will give the zerg a nice pause.


----------



## thiru

You can't kill a queen fast enough with 2 phoenixes. In fact I don't think you'd have enough energy with just 2 phoenixes fresh out of the stargate or a battle.

edit: and I edited my previous post.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You can't kill a queen fast enough with 2 phoenixes. In fact I don't think you'd have enough energy with just 2 phoenixes fresh out of the stargate or a battle.

edit: and I edited my previous post.


Thats probably true. Just tossing around ideas here. 7r push is just really giving me fits right now.


----------



## thiru

What's wrong with just using FF to get easy kills until you feel comfortable enough to fast expand or push out? zerg has to drone up at one point or another, he's not going to keep making units.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What's wrong with just using FF to get easy kills until you feel comfortable enough to fast expand or push out? zerg has to drone up at one point or another, he's not going to keep making units.


Nothing. I was just trying to figure out a way to have a way to quick counter the roach push in order to keep the pressure on the zerg versus letting them have map control while I lick my wounds.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xserpint* 
Nothing. I was just trying to figure out a way to have a way to quick counter the roach push in order to keep the pressure on the zerg versus letting them have map control while I lick my wounds.

How do you scout a fast roach anyway? don't they make at least 2 lings first to keep probes out? 1 gate robo/stargate doesn't sound too good if he's not using the build you're expecting.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How do you scout a fast roach anyway? don't they make at least 2 lings first to keep probes out? 1 gate robo/stargate doesn't sound too good if he's not using the build you're expecting.

Oh, I see the roach build going up. Zerg don't even bother with lings on a fast roach build the last few times I have encountered them. They basically sit back and dare you to fight the roaches.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xserpint* 
Oh, I see the roach build going up. Zerg don't even bother with lings on a fast roach build the last few times I have encountered them. They basically sit back and dare you to fight the roaches.

......................

Steal both gas. lol. Seriously.

edit: ok not so seriously since he'll take a gas before making a roach warren.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
......................

Steal both gas. lol. Seriously.

Thats a cheese tactic, I try to stay away from them, but hell, with roaches being sick anymore.. cheese might not be a bad thing... or I can cannon rush


----------



## vdek

Can you imagine if roaches were still 1 food?


----------



## xserpint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Can you imagine if roaches were still 1 food?

I'd rather not.


----------



## thiru

David Kim interview


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
David Kim interview

Was just going to post it. Good reasoning behind the balance changes, but I'm not sure about the Grand Master league. It's good to see a new league but 2% of diamond? It's about 0.12% of all the players lol.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
David Kim interview

Can't see it at work. Could you paste it or summarize?


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xserpint* 
Can't see it at work. Could you paste it or summarize?

+1 paste it for us


----------



## poroboszcz

Here you go:

Quote:

Q. It's unfortunate that everyone hates you due to the balance issues in this game. Tell us what other people are there in the balancing team.

A. There's Matt Cooper and Dustin Browder in addition to myself, and there are additional people who give us feedback. I don't think negatively about the hate people have due to the balancing. I think of it as that, since players are interested about the game that much, they are giving us the feedback. We do take note of a lot of different information, play at the high ranked ladder games, and through those, we try our best to get feedback from the users as much as possible.

Q. Matt Cooper? That is the guy that showed up in the old battle reports back in the closed beta?

A. Yes, that is him. I shouldn't have to mention Dustin Browder, he's pretty famous as it is.

Q. Been thinking that Dustin Browder says things about balance in-depth.

A. He is our boss (team leader).

Q. Is 'dayvie', the ID at near top of NA ladder rank, you?

A. Yes. Around ELL rank 200th skill level, as a random, I'm the best.

Q. What kind of things do you take in consideration for balancing?

A. We take teamplay seriously as well as 1v1. Recent 1.1.2 patch changed Reapers. While Reapers had no problem in 1:1, if you look at the top of the 2:2 team ranks, almost half of them are Terran+Zerg, and they all use Reaperling. This problem is same in NA as well as in Korea. This means that you can't succeed all that well in teamplay unless you play a Terran+Zerg combination, so we try to fix it if the problem is as big as that. If not, then we try to balance around 1:1.

Also, forward proxy gate Zealot rush was popular for a bit after release. This didn't get much use among the top players, but it was near impossible to stop at silver-level play. So we pondered how to fix this balance issue without affecting top players, and in the end, we decided to increase the time required to build Zealots to get it balanced.

Q. How do you decide the 'good point' to start balancing from?

A. First, I play at pro-level, and mostly receive feedback from top players. Matt Cooper plays at below ELL 200th rank, and Dustin Browder plays at lower ranks of Diamond. Balancing is done through combining different feedback across different ranks. There are times when progamers personally contact us, and we do receive a lot of replay files. We also watch e-sports tournament replays and note the ladder percentile data. Of course, we do look at the feedback from our forums.

Q. Recent patch changed how Void Rays work?

A. A Korean progamer, who played a Protoss although his main race isn't Protoss, sent us a replay showing a weakness of opponents in a certain specific period of time when a Protoss is using a Void Ray. Through the replay, we gave Void Ray the change that it received.

Q. Do you play often with other progamers?

A. I do not get to much nowadays. I do not have Korean citizenship number, so I cannot connect to the Korean server (David Kim is an American citizen). I plan to talk to the Korean branch to get me an account so that I can play there.

Q. Does GSL's race matchup statistics cause any changes in balancing?

A. The matchup statistics do not have much impact in balancing. We are more interested in the games themselves. The match result itself is impacted by not only the game's balance, but the player's skill level. Therefore, we focus more on the games themselves rather than the match results.

Q. Were you surprised that Fruitdealer won as a Zerg?

A. The balancing team thought it was possible, but other teams were very surprised. Sammy even drew a fan art for him. That's how much he was excited. We (balancing team) think that Zerg race might be a bit hard to play with, but it's not impossible to win. With skills, we expected it to be possible.

Q. There are opinions that Zerg is difficult to play.

A. That is right to a certain extent. A lot of new players find it difficult to manage larva and timing of producing offensive units. But, this doesn't really impact much at the top level of play. Pros already deal with this through high level of skill. So, balancing is more or less done around the pros.

Q. Do you separately produce statistics reports for GSL?

A. We don't produce each league's statistics, but we do produce a lot of ladder statistics. For example, we produced statistics around Diamond top ranked players. It will be revealed tomorrow in BlizzCon, that there will be a new "Grand Master League", a step above the Diamond League. It's going to be the league for the pros, where only top 2% of Diamond League, or top 100 overall, or something like that will be playing at.

Q. So the "Pro League" that were talked about before is becoming a reality.

A. It's the same thing. Just the naming has changed.

Q. But, is it okay to tell about things that is to be revealed tomorrow?

A. Ah... Oh. Haha. I'm not supposed to?

Q. What do you think of SlayerS_BoxeR making it to RO32 of GSL Open Season 2, personally?

A. As it is with other people, we are excited. We can't wait for tomorrow's special event match either.

Q. What changes do you think, would come to StarCraft 2 with SlayerS_BoxeR winning GSL?

A. We think it'll impact e-sports fan culture moreso than StarCraft 2.

Q. We had a Zerg winner in GSL Season 1. Will that have an impact in balancing?

A. We can't do balancing patch around just 1 game or 10 games. While Zerg won the Season 1, recent patch buffed Zerg and nerfed Terrans. As you can see, what race won is not important, but the match content themselves are more important. We check tournament replays, and watch replay files sent in by progamers. In other words, finals don't really mean much in terms of balancing.

Q. Anything about patching Marauders?

A. Marauder is one of the units that we are looking at through various data, and we think that we nerfed them indirectly in the recent patch through nerfing Medivacs. We don't think Marauders are, either unit stat wise or statistics-wise, strong, but we are continuing to check the feedback. So, if we find any special overpoweredness, we are willing to provide a solution. For now, we are watching.
Good opening question


----------



## xserpint

Ah thanks!


----------



## rhed5

Thanks for posting that. I woudl love David's job


----------



## DoomDash

Glad to see them not believing the newbs marauder complaints.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I like how Nios began with "everyone hates you", David Kim.


----------



## thiru

Blizzcon stream:

http://www.livestream.com/2starcraft

There's going to be a Master league AND a Grand Master league


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=162978

I hope I can get to the higher Diamond league icon







.


----------



## poroboszcz

So some noobs showing how to cannon rush atm. When is boxer playing?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=162978

I hope I can get to the higher Diamond league icon







.

Try out for TL man


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Try out for TL man

What do you mean? They have try outs?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
So some noobs showing how to cannon rush atm. When is boxer playing?

Tomorrow ? IDK.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, a question asked that I want to know ( that I don't know already )! They asked about all the missing cool stats that even WCIII had.


----------



## DoomDash

OK some of these questions make me face palm. They should let Diamond players only ask lol!


----------



## thiru

Looks like we'll have chat channels and be able to watch replays with friends.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
OK some of these questions make me face palm. They should let Diamond players only ask lol!

I love the recap on TL, lol.

Quote:

Question: Will we ever see MMR?
Answer: Blah blah no.
Followup: Is it per race?
Answer: No, but we've heard feedback, we want to fix this in the future but nothing solid.

Question: Are there gonna be chat channels?
Answer: Chat channels nov/dec, public and private channels. The coding is done, now being tested internally.

Question: Idiotic question about some random bug.
Answer: Politely referring idiot to the service forum.

Question: Will reapers be made to not suck and be viable in mid-game armies?
Answer: We're balancing for top players, Terran was OP early game, we had to nerf. Reapers being looked at but we're watching and waiting.

Question: Are we gonna get more stats (WC3 stats) on the Bnet web profile?
Answer: Yes, we're working on it, nothing specific. Have huge plans for web integration.

Skipped random "how do I play" question
Skipped another one of those.

Question: How do I tank drop better?
Answer: David Kim: Drop tanks at the natural in LT!
All Zerg players: FFFFUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## poroboszcz

Am I right that all the day 1 games have already been played, but instead they just showed this crap?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Am I right that all the day 1 games have already been played, but instead they just showed this crap?

Game 1 was supposed to have been played an hour ago.


----------



## DoomDash

I thought they played tomorrow.


----------



## poroboszcz

There are results posted on TL already.


----------



## Wishmaker

Any links for that?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
There are results posted on TL already.

They're probably casting only some matches.


----------



## DoomDash

Weak sauce. I just want to watch boxerrrrrr!! actually I want to watch all the matches. SOMEONE FIND US AN ILLEGAL LINK ( ERM LEGAL ).


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
Any links for that?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=162945


----------



## DoomDash

TLO played Zerg, damn.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://blizzcon.rayv.com/

Go here, choose lite flash player rather than RayV and select RTS tournament stage. Nothing happents atm, but I just heard Artosis saying they have technical difficulties and the match will be casted soon.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
http://blizzcon.rayv.com/

Go here, choose lite flash player rather than RayV and select RTS tournament stage. Nothing happents atm, but I just heard Artosis saying they have technical difficulties and the match will be casted soon.

Oh yeah lol I just noticed you can hear Artosis and Tasteless and one of them tapping their fingers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


I love the recap on TL, lol.


I see you trailing on my ass in our ladder page! Lucky for me New Vegas is letting my bonus pool build up.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I see you trailing on my ass in our ladder page! Lucky for me New Vegas is letting my bonus pool build up.


I'm literally installing it at the moment.


----------



## DoomDash

Cool. I *LOVED* Fallout 3. I'm about 2 hours into NV and it's just like Fallout3 so far. That's not a bad thing







. But we'll see how it pans out.


----------



## poroboszcz

I loved the original fallout and FO2. FO3 was good, but not as good as it's prequels in terms of gameplay imo.

It's starting. The best casting team ever, lol.


----------



## thiru

Tastosis[9] have announced the start of the stream!


----------



## thiru

Rofl @ when Artosis reads Blizzard's ad.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I loved the original fallout and FO2. FO3 was good, but not as good as it's prequels in terms of gameplay imo.

It's starting. The best casting team ever, lol.


I never played F1 and 2... but I want to. I'll get it on steam sometime. Fallout 3 was a perfect game for me... I believe you that F1 and 2 are awesome too, but I think that FPS gives you a different / cool out look on the world.


----------



## vdek

Wee, just bought the blizzcon virtual ticket, can't wait till the start(of the next match)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Wee, just bought the blizzcon virtual ticket, can't wait till the start










... you didn't need it to watch all the SC2 games..


----------



## DoomDash

Nope :*(


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


... you didn't need it to watch all the SC2 games..


I want the items too and HD streams


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Zerg usually go either muta ling or roach hydra.


Well, there are other combo, but, these are the most used









Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Hey all - looking for some 1s advice. Especially how to counter the new fast 7 roach push. Got smacked hard by that twice last night. Thinking about 1g/immortal or 1g/phoenix.

If anyone wants to add me, feel free to. I mostly play with a2k and ls2 people, but I will play with just about anyone.

serpint / 712 is my info.


TBH, I play zerg and I have no clue what a 7 roach push is. I can only presume you build pool, roach warren, 7 roaches and attack due to the tech levels and the name of the strat, but, I can only assume that there is a certain timing for this tech otherwise too late and it'll fail









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


stalkers still outrange and out-hp roaches. You'd have to try focusing on getting the same number or outnumber the roaches if possible. I tend to need to outnumber stalkers for my roaches to do well/survive, especially since zealots will be stopping them from reaching the stalkers.


yep, stalkers cost more minerals and maybe more gas, but, they outrange roaches(6 to 4 I think), do almost the same amount of damage with a slightly bigger hp. In a recent game against a Protoss, he attacked with 27 stalkers. While I only had 18 roaches(9 less than stalkers), I had 30 slings+20 blings or so to counter the other 9. I also used some mutalisks as well. Basically, stalkers are pretty powerful units and at the minimum have the same amount of roaches or more if you plan to win the battle









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


......................

Steal both gas. lol. Seriously.

edit: ok not so seriously since he'll take a gas before making a roach warren.


Cheap trick







But seriously, I find those kind of cheese moves really cheap, especially the gas one. All it proves to me is that your opponent might not know how to play and relies on these tricks to try and win! It's not the same as microing your army to victory which requires skill









Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Oh, I see the roach build going up. Zerg don't even bother with lings on a fast roach build the last few times I have encountered them. They basically sit back and dare you to fight the roaches.


lol, I love how well roaches can kite zealots now especially with the longer range. With 7 roaches or so, I kited 8 zealots barely losing 40hp in the process.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Thats a cheese tactic, I try to stay away from them, but hell, with roaches being sick anymore.. cheese might not be a bad thing... or I can cannon rush










sick? All that happened was the longer range, they are still hard countered by marauders and stalkers. Their damage and hp is still the same and they cost the same. However, this change is somewhat significant due to the fact that the roaches in the back don't have to run around while their comrades are fighting upfront. To me, it makes it a bit better, since, no stats were changed









Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Can you imagine if roaches were still 1 food?


That would be awesome!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Glad to see them not believing the newbs marauder complaints.


Marauders are pretty strong especially with medivacs. This was a game I played night. Although, I did pretty well, I did mess up my macro later in the game causing me to lose, here's what happened:
I played a game last night against a T who massed a really large MMM ball with 2 thors with 4-5SCVs for repair. Once I scouted his thors, I got concerned since his army was already quite big without the thors and those things have amazing range and pretty fast and strong attacks. My army consisted mostly of blings+slings, so, I quickly laid down a roach warren and made as many roaches as possible. I had to use a combination of blings+slings+roaches+mutalisks+queen to hold back the attack. My slings were good enough to do some damage and act as meat shields which meant that I had 10 roaches left, so, I went after the last thor and took it down with the 2 SCVs before it got to his base. Figuring that this was the best time to attack, since, he just lost his whole force, I built another 10 or so roaches and went on the attack. After easily taking out his exp near his base with no casualties, I decide to go for the exp right beside it in metropolis. he attacks with his couple of marauders+marines with medivacs. Suffice to say, ALL my roaches were wiped out without him losing a single unit. It was partially my fault for not focus firing, but, when your unit outnumber your opponent's almost 3 to 1 with plenty of firepower, you would think that you should've won that fight. Since I lost a decent amount of units, I made more, but, he had 2 thors and attacked with the same unit combo albeit much smaller and too me out. Those marauders are pretty powerful with medivacs for support. Unfortunately, game froze afterwards so I couldn't watch the replay







Had I attacked his main, I might have won the game, so disappointing









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I like how Nios began with "everyone hates you", David Kim.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I never played F1 and 2... but I want to. I'll get it on steam sometime. Fallout 3 was a perfect game for me... I believe you that F1 and 2 are awesome too, but I think that FPS gives you a different / cool out look on the world.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


... you didn't need it to watch all the SC2 games..


Yes, I was surprised, since, I just clicked on the link and was able to watch the loner vs. HuK games. Brilliantly played by loner, although, he relied mostly on T1 units compared to HuK


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


W
Yes, I was surprised, since, I just clicked on the link and was able to watch the loner vs. HuK games. Brilliantly played by loner, although, he relied mostly on T1 units compared to HuK


He won because of those siege tanks, nothing else.


----------



## DoomDash

huk played like ****.


----------



## Unauthorized

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


huk played like ****.


I honestly feel he threw the games, for whatever reason.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


huk played like ****.


Seriously, he had that 2nd game with the proxy pylon, even when Loner built his other rax's he still hadn't seen the pylon or the units. Should have distracted in the front with the zealots + stalkers while leaving the warped in units to kill his workers... *** was he thinking?


----------



## DoomDash

and he supply blocked himself which is why he couldnt reinforce.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


and he supply blocked himself which is why he couldnt reinforce.


I've done that during a korean 4 gate =[ It's easy to get caught up in the moment. Although that wasn't really a korean 4 gate from HuK.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


He won because of those siege tanks, nothing else.


Those siege tanks are pretty powerful and loner used them at the right time









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


huk played like ****.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Unauthorized*


I honestly feel he threw the games, for whatever reason.


For someone like me who have never seen HuK play before, I can honestly say that loner was the better player overall in both games. He might not have had the same level of macro early on, but, after he repelled HuK's attacks, his macro was on par if not more than HuK as the game went on. Also, HuK played the same kind of game against loner and he never seemed to change his gamestyle. I was cheering for HuK in both games, more so in the second, so, that they play a third but he made too many mistakes. His ff were great at the start and he was able to hold out against that early MMM ball in the second game, likewise, the proxy pylon was a nice move, but, he messed it up, but, attacking too soon and then following the marines to the bunker. Also, why would you think that HuK threw the game? Because he lost? It just wasn't his best games is all









Edit: Has the makaprime game began? It still says coming up and it's been over 30min now I think


----------



## DoomDash

no the intermissions are super long for some reason.


----------



## thiru

Whoever chose the games to stream needs to wake up. 2 TvTs and not one zerg so far.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


no the intermissions are super long for some reason.


oh, ok, thanks. Was starting to wonder if something is wrong, since, I've been refreshing for the last 10 minutes or so


----------



## ThumperSD

7RR = Timing push with initial 7 roaches

If timed correctly, should be anywhere from 5:50 to 6:20 mins... around the same time warp gates are finished


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


7RR = Timing push with initial 7 roaches

If timed correctly, should be anywhere from 5:50 to 6:20 mins... around the same time warp gates are finished


oh, I see. Still sounds somewhat risky if you opponent decides to stick to just 4 gates or build some cannons to cover his entrance.


----------



## BigFan

Are you guys having any luck with watching? It was fine, internet disconnected, now nothing is showing up


----------



## DoomDash

RR is scary now.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Are you guys having any luck with watching? It was fine, internet disconnected, now nothing is showing up










Working fine for me.

lol, mTwDeMusliM is pausing the game to turn down the lights, loool.


----------



## DoomDash

ok demuslim is pretty sick.


----------



## poroboszcz

Demuslim vs Maka game 1 was one of the best TvTs I've seen.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


7RR = Timing push with initial 7 roaches

If timed correctly, should be anywhere from 5:50 to 6:20 mins... around the same time warp gates are finished


It's usually before it's finished. Even as early as 5:30.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Working fine for me.

lol, mTwDeMusliM is pausing the game to turn down the lights, loool.


Got it to work









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


ok demuslim is pretty sick.


Amazing game, great micro and that constant harass with the tanks and dropship is exactly what one should do


----------



## DoomDash

TvT <3


----------



## vdek

Yeah, wow, that was pretty epic...

Kinda upset he didn't gank the gold workers with vision, but that might have been a waste revealing his position(Although he did have a sensor tower spotting them regardless)


----------



## thiru

Why do Terrans NEVER get a fricking turret or a raven the first time they see a banshee?


----------



## DoomDash

I do? Remember my TvT?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I do? Remember my TvT?


I'm talking about terrans in tournaments.


----------



## DoomDash

I play tournaments







. Pro tournaments







. They probably think they can get away with scan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Why do Terrans NEVER get a fricking turret or a raven the first time they see a banshee?


I always wonder that as well. Having said that, I usually forget to place spores until I get attacked by banshees or void rays at which point it's GG


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I always wonder that as well. Having said that, I usually forget to place spores until I get attacked by banshees or void rays at which point it's GG










Well that's alright, but when you see a banshee and you don't have anything, you'd be pretty stupid not to get some form of detection (Demuslim didn't even save scans) in case he goes cloak the second time.


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://kotaku.com/5671187/a-visual-g...w-custom-modes
Specifically, Aiur Chef.

EN TARO CUISINE!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It's usually before it's finished. Even as early as 5:30.


Are you talking about the time the roaches are complete building or the time when they reach the enemy's base? The time I gave is the time the roaches should be engaged to attack.

I was going by this replay
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...rg-lost-temple


----------



## vdek

Hero Banshees D:

These guys absolutely love their tanks...


----------



## DoomDash

Where is boxer fruitdealer?!?!? nvm [email protected]#&@&)(YEESSS!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well that's alright, but when you see a banshee and you don't have anything, you'd be pretty stupid not to get some form of detection (Demuslim didn't even save scans) in case he goes cloak the second time.


I'm kinda surprised that he didn't make more turrets, 2 more or so would've saved all his scv's







As mentioned, he was probably thinking it's a one time strategy although, he should've build turrets either way. In my case, I am using teching up and building more defense for MMM ball or zealot+stalker+sentry push so I usually just forget about it and by the time they attack, with no AA units in tier 1 other than a queen, it's pretty much GG









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Where is boxer fruitdealer?!?!? nvm [email protected]#&@&)(YEESSS!!!


YES! That should be interesting, zerg vs. terran and what better players to chose?


----------



## NorCa

O M G ! SlayerSBoxer!!!


----------



## DoomDash

I want Boxer to win, but I really think fruitdealers ZvT is almost unbeatable.


----------



## ThumperSD

What is the link to view the tourny?


----------



## DoomDash

http://blizzcon.rayv.com/

click the link below the video to not have to dl the player.


----------



## thiru

Is there a fruitdealer vs protoss VOD somewhere? I haven't seen his ZvP.


----------



## NorCa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I want Boxer to win, but I really think fruitdealers ZvT is almost unbeatable.


Yeah, AFruitDealers is so good vs terran, i think mech is the only thing u could poossibly do to kill some of his stuff

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What is the link to view the tourny?


http://blizzcon.rayv.com/


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


Yeah, AFruitDealers is so good vs terran, i think mech is the only thing u could poossibly do to kill some of his stuff

http://blizzcon.rayv.com/


Mech didn't stop a Fruitdealer in GSL1.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://blizzcon.rayv.com/

click the link below the video to not have to dl the player.


+1

Any idea when it will start?


----------



## NorCa

I didnt say stop! lol, just hold him a lit bit better, banelings + corruptors is just too op for M&M&Ms


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


I didnt say stop! lol, just hold him a lit bit better, banelings + corruptors is just too op for M&M&Ms


You mean infestor?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You mean infestor?


Likely he meant that. This should be interesting. Curious, who everyone thinks will win?

For myself, Fruitdealer FTW! For the Swarm!


----------



## NorCa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You mean infestor?


Ehh yeah sry, Infestor of course, Fungal Growth is amazing


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


+1

Any idea when it will start?


IDK the intermissions have been much longer than they said they would be.

Mech is good until ultras are out. I really think it requires a mix of everything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


Ehh yeah sry, Infestor of course, Fungal Growth is amazing


It is, unfortunately, personally, very horrible at using it(always forget to get infestor), so, I opt for a lot of slings+blings vs. MMM ball. Works wonders


----------



## NorCa

BTW kudos @ blizzard, really cant think of another 2 players for an exhibition match







; well maybe idra, but MLG cant compare to GSL.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


BTW kudos @ blizzard, really cant think of another 2 players for an exhibition match










It's almost like a GSL 2 final match







Best zerg vs. best terran(have only seen some games, definitely great micro and macro)


----------



## DoomDash

Micro. his macro is not as good as other terrans. His micro and mind are better than all though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Micro. his macro is not as good as other terrans. His micro and mind are better than all though.


hmm, interesting. Well, micro is just as important as macro, so, we'll see. I did see that youtube video you posted up a while back about boxer and it was interesting. Using marines to get tanks to attack each other is ingenious







Wish they'll start the game already


----------



## DoomDash

He used marines to target burrowed ( cloaked ) lurkers.

He used marines to bait lurker spikes.

He used medics to block lurkers.

He used a marine as bait to pop up spider mines to kill them.

lots of crazy ****.

His dropship harass was top notch too.... he would unload tanks, fire at a dragoon, and lift off before the dragoon projectile hit the target, and repeat this over and over.

He was also the only Terran at pro level to really use nukes.


----------



## BigFan

Fantastic game, Fruitdealer was amazing. 5 bases as well, I can barely get 3


----------



## thiru

That was incredible play by a FruitDealer.


----------



## BigFan

Stream just went down


----------



## DoomDash

Incredible by boxer as well.

Yes, epic fail blizzard.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Incredible by boxer as well.

Yes, epic fail blizzard.


Definitely incredible, but that gold exp was such a risk. Disappointed with Blizzard, really wanted to see this!


----------



## DoomDash

it looks like the hellion is face palming


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


it looks like the hellion is face palming


huh? All I see is a big red block with the words: "Signal Loss Detected Service Id 3"


----------



## DoomDash

You don't see the game at where it froze, as well as the block?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't see the game at where it froze, as well as the block?


Well, block is smack in the center, so, I only see above and below it


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163081 lol someone else noticed the same thing as me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163081 lol someone else noticed the same thing as me.


I just noticed what you meant


----------



## BigFan

I thought you meant the actual unit, not the portrait









Edit: It supposdly works with RayV player?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


it looks like the hellion is face palming


lol


----------



## BigFan

guys, fruitdealer won! Nice game









Get RayV to watch









Edit: Over till tommorrow, didn't see whole match, just the last minute or so. Definitely faster than the last one


----------



## DoomDash

Boo zerg. Boxer will be back to show the world what Terran is really made of.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Boo zerg. Boxer will be back to show the world what Terran is really made of.


lol, your only saying that since zerg rule. TBH, I thought that boxer was gonna give him a hard time and he did the first game, but, didn't seem like it in the second. For the Swarm!







If anyone wants to know how it ends, I can pm you or write it here


----------



## DoomDash

Well both Boxer and Nada the two Terran gods feel Zerg > T.

Anyway, ****ing crashes. Went 2:1 in ladder just now but the 1 was a crash that I had the higher score. WEAK.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Had a pretty ******ed Phantom Mode game XD

My fellow phantom (i always choose phantom, more fun







) was a new player or something and was quite frankly ******ed. 9 drones, none on gas, and he had broodlords about 10 minutes in.... yeah. He got killed early.

After that, various people died to others and/or someone else left. Someone even almost killed me when he attacked me for no real reason at all. I couldn't stop his (goddamn) mass void rays, but some terran with banshees killed him.

Queue about 45 minutes to possibly near an hour of me rebuilding hatcheries/spires/etc and trying to rebuild to counter his Battlecruisers (after my mutas killed his banshees), while the terran was fighting it out with another terran. The BC guy eventually killed another, and he and the initial protoss who almost killed me both left the game. Queue about 5 more minutes of me running around and him not killing me, then he left XD

Patience wins the day! \\o/


----------



## e6800xe

lol met an ocn member randomly on desert strike
we CRASHED the game with mass lings/swarm guards


----------



## DoomDash

I should be 1000 on my second account today / tomorrow. 65% w/l ratio. That's come from 25-22 at one point.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Had a pretty ******ed Phantom Mode game XD

My fellow phantom (i always choose phantom, more fun







) was a new player or something and was quite frankly ******ed. 9 drones, none on gas, and he had broodlords about 10 minutes in.... yeah. He got killed early.

After that, various people died to others and/or someone else left. Someone even almost killed me when he attacked me for no real reason at all. I couldn't stop his (goddamn) mass void rays, but some terran with banshees killed him.

Queue about 45 minutes to possibly near an hour of me rebuilding hatcheries/spires/etc and trying to rebuild to counter his Battlecruisers (after my mutas killed his banshees), while the terran was fighting it out with another terran. The BC guy eventually killed another, and he and the initial protoss who almost killed me both left the game. *Queue about 5 more minutes of me running around and him not killing me, then he left XD*

Patience wins the day! \\o/











Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I should be 1000 on my second account today / tomorrow. 65% w/l ratio. That's come from 25-22 at one point.

Nice









Anyone watching the SC2 matches? White-Ra vs. MTWDIMAGA next


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 









He also actually said "you really suck" or some similar insult, and I was typing an answer but he left









Yes, I was a total douche in that game but I WON GOD DAMNIT


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Anyone watching the SC2 matches? White-Ra vs. MTWDIMAGA next









I just woke up so I'm catching up now, watching Sen vs Loner









I have to be honest, Boxer vs Fruit Dealer was incredible...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
I just woke up so I'm catching up now, watching Sen vs Loner









I have to be honest, Boxer vs Fruit Dealer was incredible...

It was, the first more than the second since they were pressuring each other a lot. In the second one, I don't think as much but since the feed was dropped at the hellion, I have no clue what happened afterwards







Personally, I haven't seen all the matches, just Boxer vs. Fruitdealer, DeMuslim vs. Makaprime and now WhiteRa vs. Dimaga


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
He also actually said "you really suck" or some similar insult, and I was typing an answer but he left









Yes, I was a total douche in that game but I WON GOD DAMNIT









Win at any cost I see


----------



## Nevaziah

are all the tournament matches done?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
are all the tournament matches done?

Nope, semi finals and finals are left.


----------



## Nevaziah

Oh thank god! its the link on team liquid for Blizzcon right? this one?

http://blizzcon.rayv.com/


----------



## vdek

Hey, do any of you guys know the model of headphones they're using at blizzcon?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Oh thank god! its the link on team liquid for Blizzcon right? this one?

http://blizzcon.rayv.com/

Yes it is








Loner vs. NexusGenius, should be interesting









@vdek No clue.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Hey, do any of you guys know the model of headphones they're using at blizzcon?

They looked like the SC2 Razers


----------



## thiru

I didn't see the semi finals.. they just announced the finals.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
They looked like the SC2 Razers

Nah, it can't be these









But those are pretty cool looking.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Nah, it can't be these









But those are pretty cool looking.

They looked just like those if I remember correctly.. I remember those 3 LEDS on each side


----------



## thiru

No it really wasn't that.


----------



## ThumperSD

Looks like it to me?


----------



## thiru

Oh. I thought you were talking about the headphones that the progamers were using. Dimaga and White Ra were definitely not using those.


----------



## BigFan

Finals starting!


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh. I thought you were talking about the headphones that the progamers were using. Dimaga and White Ra were definitely not using those.

Yeah, I'm referring to those.

Regardless, what the heck is up with Loner, is MMM his only game?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Yeah, I'm referring to those.

Regardless, what the heck is up with Loner, is MMM his only game?

huh? He had vikings and tanks. Besides MMM is great against gateway units, vikings are great for colossus and tanks provide great support. Why go for another strategy if it works well?









Fantastic games so far. HTs and colossus are sooo powerful especially when you have 3-4 of them supported by zealots+stalkers


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
huh? He had vikings and tanks. Besides MMM is great against gateway units, vikings are great for colossus and tanks provide great support. Why go for another strategy if it works well?









Fantastic games so far. HTs and colossus are sooo powerful especially when you have 3-4 of them supported by zealots+stalkers









Yeah he finally started getting tanks, but every game I've seen from loner at blizzcon is him going MMM heavy.

That Immortal drop on top of the siege tanks was pretty awesome by Nexgenius.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Yeah he finally started getting tanks, but every game I've seen from loner at blizzcon is him going MMM heavy.

That Immortal drop on top of the siege tanks was pretty awesome by Nexgenius.

I agree, he goes heavy MMM but that's because it's such a great counter for gateway units. It's main weakness is colossi, but, then again, he counters those with vikings, so, a good plan for sure. NexGenius was just the better player especially with his scouting. I mean he had his observer in loner's base for most of the game, so, he knew exactly when he was going to push out and what he was making. One thing I am surprised about is dts, I mean I know they cost a large amount of gas, but, adding in some of them would greatly increase damage done and I doubt loner will scan during the battle, since, his units are dying left and right. He could've also done a drop using them on his main in the Xelnaga map and took out most scvs before loner could react. Of course, there are other factors to take into account


----------



## Epona

Loner definitely had that last game in the bag... sad to see him lose. Ah well. He needed more siege tanks.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I agree, he goes heavy MMM but that's because it's such a great counter for gateway units. It's main weakness is colossi, but, then again, he counters those with vikings, so, a good plan for sure. NexGenius was just the better player especially with his scouting. I mean he had his observer in loner's base for most of the game, so, he knew exactly when he was going to push out and what he was making. One thing I am surprised about is dts, I mean I know they cost a large amount of gas, but, adding in some of them would greatly increase damage done and I doubt loner will scan during the battle, since, his units are dying left and right. He could've also done a drop using them on his main in the Xelnaga map and took out most scvs before loner could react. Of course, there are other factors to take into account









He's ******ed. Every single game he went MMM, every single game nexgenius went Colossi. WTH!?!?

I agree on the DTs, but they're expensive and NG was going Colossi + Stalkers + Sentries which is really gas heavy.


----------



## thiru

ROFL @ the closing ceremony!

"Winning this tournament wasn't that hard"

"I just laddered and played with friends who are good"


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


ROFL @ the closing ceremony!

"Winning this tournament wasn't that hard"

"I just laddered and played with friends who are good"


LOL I take it this is the first time tasteless and day-9 have done something like this. GG Blizzard, GG.

According to someone on TL, this is what he actually said:

Quote:



Q: How are you feeling after your first place win at Blizzcon?

NEXGenius: I feel like I'm flying!

Q: What did you do to practice for this tournament?

NEXGenius: I played ladder games, and I practiced with a few friends.

Q: What was the hardest moment of this entire tournament for you?

NEXGenius: It was really hard, but I thought first place was definitely possible.

P.S. Last question the "translator" asked the wrong question and even mistranslated NEXGenius' answer.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Well I started playing Random instead of Zerg only.
I've totally destroyed my record in the last two days, but since I'm in Bronze i don't really care.

I figure that learning the other two races will pay off in the long run and make me a better player overall.
Plus it is way more fun this way. Really enjoying Protoss at the moment.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Epona*


Loner definitely had that last game in the bag... sad to see him lose. Ah well. He needed more siege tanks.


I don't know. At one point back when the exp for NexusGenius was almost done, loner might have been able to take that game, but, once NexusGenius had those colossi, it was just too difficult. He went marauder heavy and they are countered by zealots which Genius made a lot of. Such a killer combo though. I've been attacked by zealots+stalkers+1-2immortals+2colossi before and they wiped my slings+roaches+hydras army with a decent # of stalkers and both colossi surviving. Probably my fault for fighting at a choke









Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


He's ******ed. Every single game he went MMM, every single game nexgenius went Colossi. WTH!?!?

I agree on the DTs, but they're expensive and NG was going Colossi + Stalkers + Sentries which is really gas heavy.


The thing is, it works well if he makes the right choices. He was keeping on par with Genius however I think he made a couple of mistakes. Like the xelnaga map, he sieged up right as the colossi attacked which meant that his tanks didn't do any damage and were taken out. His use of banshees was good, but, again he made the mistake of getting it killed after taking out < 4 probes which means that he was set back economically. He made some more mistakes as well, but, those two come to mind









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


ROFL @ the closing ceremony!

"Winning this tournament wasn't that hard"

"I just laddered and played with friends who are good"


lol, but, to be fair, I think the translator wasn't correctly translating what was said. True, there are language barriers, but, he could fixed the wording, not that I mind, since, everyone understood what was said for the most part









Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


LOL I take it this is the first time tasteless and day-9 have done something like this. GG Blizzard, GG.

According to someone on TL, this is what he actually said:


Thanks for the TL thing


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Well I started playing Random instead of Zerg only.
I've totally destroyed my record in the last two days, but since I'm in Bronze i don't really care.

I figure that learning the other two races will pay off in the long run and make me a better player overall.
Plus it is way more fun this way. Really enjoying Protoss at the moment.


You backstabber!!!!!








jk of course. Personally, I wanna go random as well, but, there is no point ATM without getting zerg down well. I would love to try a zealot+stalker+sentry or zealot+stalker+colossi combo or even an MMM ball microing to take out zealots or roaches, etc.... but I also love roaches, slings and mutalisks and I feel if I am to play T or P, I will be overwhelmed by any zerg opponent that I might be paired against


----------



## deanlewandowski

BigFan;11100282 I feel if I am to play T or P said:


> https://www.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]


I lose every game I play as T or P, but learning fast and its really given me an insight into what my opponent is going to do.
The games that I get Zerg as random I find myself playing a little differently than I did.
I dont know that it has made any major improvement yet, but I honestly think it will in the long run.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


I lose every game I play as T or P, but learning fast and its really given me an insight into what my opponent is going to do.
The games that I get Zerg as random I find myself playing a little differently than I did.
I dont know that it has made any major improvement yet, but I honestly think it will in the long run.


I'm pretty confident that it will help me in the long run in terms of improvements in reading my opponent and playing the game overall, but, I just love zerg so much. The fact that it's APM intensive is kind of why I'm drawn to the race as well as the units such as slings, roaches, mutalisks, etc.... I always wanted to play random when I started playing some practice games and I did play two games as protoss(lost both to P and T I think), but, it just feels like I'm betraying zerg


----------



## thiru

http://www.mediafire.com/?x69g498qchv2x7f

A funday monday we played with Jediwin (queens) Nevaziah (hydras) and myself (zealots) against noobs (first placement match lol).

It's pretty funny. Mass queens means you expand 10 times faster than everyone else and gather resources so fast it's not even funny.
And the whole frigging map was covered in creep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.mediafire.com/?x69g498qchv2x7f

A funday monday we played with Jediwin (queens) Nevaziah (hydras) and myself (zealots) against noobs (first placement match lol).

It's pretty funny. Mass queens means you expand 10 times faster than everyone else and gather resources so fast it's not even funny.
And the whole frigging map was covered in creep










Hydras are just so expansive to produce. Remember that one game where I decided to go hydras and started taking gas and almost saturated my base and yet I wasn't able to keep production. Queens are a good idea on the other hand. They do 8(4x2 hits), can transfuse so you can constantly heal your army as well as spreed creep to prevent exp which is pretty nice







I'll try to take a look since it sounds interesting


----------



## thiru

http://us.media.blizzard.com/blizzco...nt_replays.zip'

Blizzcon tournament replays.


----------



## vdek

The queen rush never gets old.

I just did a 4v4 where I queen rushed one of the other teams, epic. Spine crawlers + Queens









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://us.media.blizzard.com/blizzco...nt_replays.zip'

Blizzcon tournament replays.


Wow awesome!

Blizzards going to add in a replay browser into bnet soon I bet.


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.mediafire.com/?x69g498qchv2x7f

A funday monday we played with Jediwin (queens) Nevaziah (hydras) and myself (zealots) against noobs (first placement match lol).

It's pretty funny. Mass queens means you expand 10 times faster than everyone else and gather resources so fast it's not even funny.
And the whole frigging map was covered in creep










I'm very surprised the other team lost. Queens have a dps of almost nothing, as evidenced by just dozens of them killing hardly anything.
furthermore, it's very difficult to correctly time transfuse when 8-10 queens are getting owned at any one point.
Basically, if the other team had gotten maybe five-six tanks along with their mnm ball, they wuld have trampled that hydra/queen/chargelot army.

Still a fun game. Wish I got to play people that bad : (


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *holyherbiness*


I'm very surprised the other team lost. Queens have a dps of almost nothing, as evidenced by just dozens of them killing hardly anything.
furthermore, it's very difficult to correctly time transfuse when 8-10 queens are getting owned at any one point.
Basically, if the other team had gotten maybe five-six tanks along with their mnm ball, they wuld have trampled that hydra/queen/chargelot army.

Still a fun game. Wish I got to play people that bad : (


They were really bad. It was our first placement match or something like that so they probably were bronze level (if you look at the blue protoss he builds like 6 warpgates on 1 base).

The only reason we won is that Jediwin expanded like 5 times and we starved them out of minerals


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yeah he finally started getting tanks, but every game I've seen from loner at blizzcon is him going MMM heavy.

That Immortal drop on top of the siege tanks was pretty awesome by Nexgenius.


Terran has to go MMM vs Protoss ( or MMG ect ) or they get steam rolled.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


They were really bad. It was our first placement match or something like that so they probably were bronze level (if you look at the blue protoss he builds like 6 warpgates on 1 base).

The only reason we won is that Jediwin expanded like 5 times and we starved them out of minerals










You'll be surprised. The second 2vs2 game that I played with doomdash, our opponents were gold and plat. We still won, but, that was cause doomdash was pretty amazing holding his gold base. I think my biggest mistake is not expanding to a third or fourth base and not even saturating my 2nd. I mostly expand for the gas and slowly increase my drone count, but, even then, I rarely have over 10 drones for minerals and 16 or so for main. I think if I am to expand for a 3rd and saturate all three bases, I would be able to win my games much more










Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran has to go MMM vs Protoss ( or MMG ect ) or they get steam rolled.


Pretty much, however, ghosts with their EMP are amazing against P. A well placed EMP will take out in some cases, 50% of the life of a P unit(stalker 80/80 hp I think) which is huge considering how powerful MMM balls are in the first place. Of course, a good player will micro his units well to minimize damage from EMP


----------



## Tchernobyl

goddamn mother****ing **** >.< why is it the closer you are to a goal (in my case 100 wins for hydra portrait), the more you lose? And I cannot express my utter *rage* at ****ing proxies and warpgates.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
goddamn mother****ing **** >.< why is it the closer you are to a goal (in my case 100 wins for hydra portrait), the more you lose? And I cannot express my utter *rage* at ****ing proxies and warpgates.









It's been always like that, the difference is that now you want to get to 100 wins for that portrait. Beforehand, you were so far off that it didn't come to mind. Likewise, I'm interested in the portrait, however, I have a LONG way to go so I'm focusing on the present







I had a P player hide a probe *behind* a tree in my base so when I scouted for any pylons, I found none, then he just built one later on, rehid the probe and wraped in dts tearing my base in half before I got a chance to get an overseer to detect them. By then, I lost a decent number of drones and units due to their high dps. When I finally got rid of them and the pylon, he was ready with some zealot+stalker team and I didn't have enough forces to stop it. While I do believe that it's part of the game, it does seem a bit cheesy to hide a worker to wrap in pylons, etc.... A nicer idea that seems more fair would be to use a warp prism if that's what it's called, but, meh even pros do it so why fault the average player?


----------



## Tchernobyl

I got hit by a cannon proxy at one point (not inside the base, but at my expansion) which I kinda beat back but it set me back so far that I couldn't keep up. Other than that, I just utterly despise how absurdly quickly a toss can recreate his army with warpgates.

I mean, the big thing about zerg is "you can create your waves very quickly!" Which applies to every unit, admittedly....

....but warpgates are the *exact same thing* with warpgate units. An entire slew of units at the drop of a hat. Especially considering how strong toss units are, that is just... ugh. (especially stalkers. Hate. Hate hate hate haaaaaaaaate)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I got hit by a cannon proxy at one point (not inside the base, but at my expansion) which I kinda beat back but it set me back so far that I couldn't keep up. Other than that, I just utterly despise how absurdly quickly a toss can recreate his army with warpgates.

I mean, the big thing about zerg is "you can create your waves very quickly!" Which applies to every unit, admittedly....

....but warpgates are the *exact same thing* with warpgate units. An entire slew of units at the drop of a hat. Especially considering how strong toss units are, that is just... ugh. (especially stalkers. Hate. Hate hate hate haaaaaaaaate)

hmm, I think the main thing that we should do when we play zerg is just expand like wildfire. You also have to remember that you need as many wrapgates as you want to wrap units in, such as 5 of them to wrap in 5 units at once, although, I do see your point. Roaches+slings take down stalkers if there are enough of them


----------



## Tchernobyl

Holy ****ing cheese batman!

10-15 games (i've lost track) today to get THE LAST FEW GAMES UNTIL HYDRA PICTURE, and about 80% i'm playing against are cheesing or rushing or doing some kind of idiotic bull**** >.<

SO MUCH GODDAMN RAGE AAAAAAAAAAH


----------



## Tchernobyl

...And now that I *have* gotten my 100th victory, the achievement tracker isn't updating it. My profile shows 100 games won in 1v1 (and I've only ever won as zerg, barely ever tried as anything else), and my achievements 99...

The universe apparently hates me.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Does anyone use phoenix regularity. They are so underrated. If you play with anything platinum and under they are deadly. Been winning 10 games 3 vs 3 with just phoenix. I harass their workers and dont let them expand and they are as good as dead from my team mates and if they go air i still got some attack especially vs zerg.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Holy ****ing cheese batman!

10-15 games (i've lost track) today to get THE LAST FEW GAMES UNTIL HYDRA PICTURE, and about 80% i'm playing against are cheesing or rushing or doing some kind of idiotic bull**** >.<

SO MUCH GODDAMN RAGE AAAAAAAAAAH

It's actually quite hard to cheese against zerg. On the other hand if you're doing some economical build and your opponent does some kind of all-in you have to really be a level above him in terms of skill and/or know your timings perfectly to be able to defend. So imo it's better to sacrifice some economy in order to stay safe.

I'd suggest you try going 10 overlord, 10 pool in every match for a while, to get used to it. The slight economical advantage you get from 9/14 pool over 10/10 pool doesn't matter at all at this level of play, while having the pool this much faster can save you the game. It will allow you to defend from any early aggression, including 6pool or 2 gate rush, with some spine crawlers/queen/zerglings or to take early map control with speedlings or roaches.


----------



## poroboszcz

double post


----------



## Tchernobyl

I just utterly despise the entire warpgate concept. I mean, i understand it from a protoss technology/lore point of view that it should be doable, but it feels like they come in entirely too fast. I mean, 5 seconds to spawn units that normally take 40+? Seems rather excessively fast to me, especially since they can be spawned all over the goddamn map...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
I just utterly despise the entire warpgate concept. I mean, i understand it from a protoss technology/lore point of view that it should be doable, but it feels like they come in entirely too fast. I mean, 5 seconds to spawn units that normally take 40+? Seems rather excessively fast to me, especially since they can be spawned all over the goddamn map...

You do realize protoss has to wait 23-40 seconds to warp another unit right?


----------



## Epona

If they have pylons they can. Scout out proxy pylons and they won't be able to. They also have a cooldown time. It's not like you can just spawn as many as you want.


----------



## Tchernobyl

True, but the cooldown on the warpgate is 10 seconds shorter than the build time of the unit REGARDLESS. So they not only spawn faster on the ground, they get the next set out even faster.


----------



## DEC_42

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
True, but the cooldown on the warpgate is 10 seconds shorter than the build time of the unit REGARDLESS. So they not only spawn faster on the ground, they get the next set out even faster.

Provided, y'know, they've spent all that gas and crystal to buy multiple gateways and tech to warpgates.

You can outproduce them the old-fashioned way if you keep up in economy.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Yeah, but there's still travel time to consider for the other races. Once you hit warpgates, it's a gift that keeps on giving. It just keeps getting better with more warpgates, for example, from the safety of their main base. Vs having to set up that new base, and having them travel from one end of a map to another...


----------



## Epona

Once again, if you scout, they can't get pylons out.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
It's actually quite hard to cheese against zerg. On the other hand if you're doing some economical build and your opponent does some kind of all-in you have to really be a level above him in terms of skill and/or know your timings perfectly to be able to defend. So imo it's better to sacrifice some economy in order to stay safe.

I'd suggest you try going 10 overlord, 10 pool in every match for a while, to get used to it. The slight economical advantage you get from 9/14 pool over 10/10 pool doesn't matter at all at this level of play, while having the pool this much faster can save you the game. It will allow you to defend from any early aggression, including 6pool or 2 gate rush, with some spine crawlers/queen/zerglings or to take early map control with speedlings or roaches.

I used to do 10 pool and OL but I've since moved to 14 pool, 15 exp or along those lines. I think scouting is the main key here. If you can keep an eye on your opponent, then you can tell when they are going to attack and pump out units









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You do realize protoss has to wait 23-40 seconds to warp another unit right?

23-40 is pretty fast for these units. They take 5 sec to wrap in while at the same time, the cooldown has started, so, zealots take 28 sec, by the time they wrap in, it's 23 sec left. Then you also have to consider travelling distance. Zerg can make units pretty fast if you have the resources, however, if a battle is going on the map Sakuras plateau for example, the time it takes to move to the battle is more than the time it takes to wrap in a unit and have them get engaged in a battle which can make a difference. Personally, I think wrap gates are fine since they allow P to keep up with our ability to quickly produce units and you can still only wrap in so many units depending on how many wrapgates that you have. Likewise, this is similar to the reactor which allows to put out, marines, hellions and vikings at twice the rate









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Epona* 
If they have pylons they can. Scout out proxy pylons and they won't be able to. They also have a cooldown time. It's not like you can just spawn as many as you want.

True, but, his main concern is that it's still too fast for the time. See above reply ^^

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
True, but the cooldown on the warpgate is 10 seconds shorter than the build time of the unit REGARDLESS. So they not only spawn faster on the ground, they get the next set out even faster.

true indeed. My advice, if they go heavy stalker, go heavy roaches+slings and get some speed as well as armor upgrades. Those stalkers will be toast









Just had a game vs. protoss and he went mass stalkers and attacked my base twice. The first battle was near my exp on jungle basin map and consisted of 14 stalkers+2 zealots+2 immortals vs. 16 roaches+12slings+queen+1 crawler at a choke point, so, it made it worse for my roaches due to range. Having said that, he concentrated on my queen and my units made quick work of his taking out his units. I think I had 7 or so roaches survive, not bad considering how well immortals do against them







I did pretty well, kept on scouting, knew what he was doing most times, harassed his probes down to 9 from 27 with mutalisks, lol. I even grabbed a third base and started saturating it with drones eventually teching to brood lords. Game ended when I went against his carriers and stalkers using mutalisks+corruptors+brood lords from one side and roaches+slings from his main entrance. The funny part was that I made infestors so that I can try FG, but, left them behind even though all 5 had full energy and those IT could've helped


----------



## thiru

Zerg can morph 19 units per hatchery at the same time. QQ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Epona* 
Once again, if you scout, they can't get pylons out.

Yes, but, pylons are small enough structure that they can be hidden anywhere on the map and if you are constantly scouting your opponent and building up your eco and army, sometimes, you don't have the time to constantly scout for them. Personally, I like the challenge and look for pylons around the base and near it


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Zerg can morph 19 units per hatchery at the same time. QQ.

Someone is forgetting the costs involved, that if the structure is taken out then your ability to build said unit is gone and that our units are in general weaker so we need to make more to swarm our opponent








Also, we need to keep spawing larvae and ALL our units from the SAME structure, so, we have to have the perfect balance of droning, making an army and the different units, etc....


----------



## DEC_42

If you're not out there keeping the pressure on you're opponent, you're doing it wrong. Zerg can crap creep out all over the map once they're at lair tech. Those'll stop pylons from being placed, and they'll tell you where your enemy's moving if they get shot at.

Proper scouting will let you onto what units to make, as well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DEC_42* 
If you're not out there keeping the pressure on you're opponent, you're doing it wrong. Zerg can crap creep out all over the map once they're at lair tech. Those'll stop pylons from being placed, and they'll tell you where your enemy's moving if they get shot at.

Proper scouting will let you onto what units to make, as well.

Creep tumours are very easy to destroy using a small army+observer or raven. Likewise, overloads can be taken down very easily with a small army and you'll have to use a lot of minerals to make more of them.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DEC_42* 
Provided, y'know, they've spent all that gas and crystal to buy multiple gateways and tech to warpgates.

You can outproduce them the old-fashioned way if you keep up in economy.

No, no you can't. In order to produce at the same rate as someone with 4 warp gates you would need at least 6 regular gateways. Besides, warpgate tech only costs 50 gas/minerals and you need a cybercore to produce stalkers anyways.


----------



## Tchernobyl

yaay, finally got my hydra pic! Which for some reason required 101 wins, not 100... D:


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163417

David Kim Interview at Blizzcon!

Quote:

*1. Community Feedback*
Pros: All players may participate.
Cons: Issues can become exaggerated (opinion swings).

*2. Progamer Feedback*
Because of the skill level of Korean pros, we try to pay a lot of attention to this. We observe focusing our attention on a specific player. Also, we look at a lot of tournament replays. But the fact that progamers play only one race can be a drawback.

*3. Tournaments*
Many people tend to focus on the results, but we try to focus on the process (of the game) instead. The fact that FruidDealer won does not necessarily mean Zerg is strong, as the fact there was a high ratio of Protoss doesn't necessarily mean Protoss is strong. We focus on the content of the games. But since there is a range in skill depending on brackets and placement, it's difficult to get accurate [information].

*4. Excel Statistics*
We record the timings of a specific race and look at the statistics. However, it's hard to see certain game elements such as unit size and micro.

*5. Battle Tester*
We have a tool that lets us create unit mixes that lets us pit armies of corresponding cost against each other. For example, we can test how a mix of Roaches, Hydras, and Ultras fares against certain Protoss unit combinations. But we cannot know the timings. A Roach/Hydra combo with 5 Roachs or 10 Roaches will have different timings in-game, but we cannot know this with this tool.

*6. Statistics by Race/Win:Lose Ratios in Matchups*
In North America, we feel that ZvT/ZvP are balanced. Protoss seems to be favored in PvT with a 60% win percentage.

The reason why Korea is so important is the fact that there are a lot of gosu gamers in Korea. Also, strategies tend to be developed first in Korea. Even in beta, Korean zergs were sweeping the floor in ZvP with a 70% win rate, while in NA/Europe, the opposite was true (70% win rate for toss).

When we analyzed the games, we learned that Korean Zergs' strategy was different. They were easily defeating protoss with a spine crawler+mutalisk combo, and this strategy was never used in NA. After 1~2 weeks, NA players started copying the strategy. By the end of the second week, the Win rates became the same as in Korea, and we were able to make our decisions regarding ZvP balance.

ZvP balance is still good. In PvT however, top-tier terrans have a 6% win rate advantage over protoss. We generally don't see a difference within 5% as a balance issue, but 6% is a little bit outside that range. As in the past, Terran may become more powerful once Korean strategies make their way to other regions. We are keeping an eye on it at the moment.

Also, if we look at the case of PvT, we've never before had pros send us such varying feedback. When we asked 5 pros for feedback, MakaPrime said PvT was balanced, whereas 2 others said Protoss could never win, and the remaining 2 thought Terran could never win. Normally, 70-80% of pro gamers give us the same opinion when asked for feedback. This time, the opinions are so varied that we are wondering if it's an inherent issue with TvP.

In the early game, Terran has an advantage with stimpack, micro, and medivac drops, but the late game protoss has a lot of powerful units such as high templars with upgrades casting storm immediately after warping in. The Phoenix+Collossus combo of NEXGenius has also been giving Terrans a hard time.

What we want isn't a game where one side has an advantage in the earlygame and the other in the lategame, but rather a game where both sides have opportunities in both the early and late game. We will continue to balance out these issues as we find them.

Lately we've been working to accuarately analyze balance in TvP. We don't think there is an issue with stimpack, but we are looking into it closely in order to accurately understand the issues at hand.

*Q. There are opinions that Carriers and Mothership are not being used often*
A. Foreign gosus are making good use of them in PvT. We do not think they are useless. We don't think all units need to be seen at frequently in top-tier play. Even if we see battle cruisers in only 1 match out of 100, we don't think this in itself is the problem. A lot of the focus with StarCraft II is about eSports, but we are making a game for all gamers. But if gosu players come up with new strategies utilizing these units, we expect it would be very fun to watch.

*Q. Some people are disappointed at how short the matches are*
A. We think this is a problem with the maps. StarCraft 1 (probably typo, means SC2) was developed with to balance the game through the maps. We had match duration for broadcasting in mind, but we made the maps diverse for Ladder play so that a player would, in, say, 10 games, get to play a vareity of games, such as getting rushed early, playing 10 minute games and 40 minute games and so on. I think it would be a good idea for the hosts of the tournaments to make maps of their own. When you're on the ladder, however, you should inevitably get a variety of matches.

*Q. Is balance the reason why there are no island maps in SC2?*
A. You don't get fun games on island maps. That, and we intentionally included no island maps because it's so early after launch. If there are new units in the expansions that allow island maps to be fun (**to watch, probably) we will release island maps later.

*Q. There are a lot of opinions regarding the slow movement speeds of Hydralisks.*
A. This was a design choice. If there was a unit that was strong against both air and ground, the other units would inevitably be used less. That is why there was a strong tendency for players to mass hydras in StarCraft 1. We want units with strengths to also have weaknesses. Without being damaged by splash, hydras reign supreme on creep, but their slow speed becomes their weakness off creep.

*Q. Do you only pay attention to feedback from within [South Korea]?*
A. We take feedback from gosu players everyewhere.

*Q. There are opinions that the balance patches (**maybe he means changes) happened too abruptly*
A. In this patch, it was just the Roach range getting increased by 1, but we feel that balance has improved. We will be making balance changes with smaller changes in the future.

*Q. Do you take progamer feedback on a regular basis?*
A. We ask pros for feedback when a few weeks have passed since a patch, we feel the strategies have stabilized, or special situations arise. A while ago, protoss could do a timing push against terran with zealots, sentries, and void rays. We ask pros for feedback when there are issues like this.

*Q. Is there a difference between Korean and foreign progamer feedback?*
A. Korean players come up with strong, new strategies. There are times when foreign players fall behind, but there is no big difference in opinion worldwide. Also, the feedback from the average player is pretty similar worldwide. Korean players give a lot of feedback regarding Marauders, and so do the foreign players. Same goes for void rays. There is no huge gap at the community level.

*Q. There are opinions that the variety in choice of strategies for Terran have decreased due to the recent nerf*
A. There were a lot of strategies terrans could use before scouting their opponent. We were planning to decrease the number of possible strategies because we felt they were having a negative effect, and the reaper happened to be problematic in team games so we adjusted the balance with a focus on reapers. In the case of barracks before depot, there were a lot of games that ended before it was even scouted. It didn't happen very often on the pro level, but it was becoming a problem in lower tier play. The main focus is the pro level, but our ultimate goal is for players of all levels to be able to play a fair and balanced game. Barracks first builds were too strong in that regard and created a lot of problems in low level play, which is why we made the adjustments.

*Q. Are there any plans to buff terran in the next patch?*
A. We are looking at PvT and High Templar's Psionic Storm. It's only been a week after patch, so we are still analyzing how it is affecting gameplay.

*Q. Did you schedule the patch to go with GSL?*
A. We try to release patches in time for tournaments. Because GSL is the largest, we try to release them in time for GSL. We have plans to create a tournament server unaffected by balance or bugs, but I don't know when it will actually be happening.

*Q. Some people say repair is imba*
A. We are looking into it, but we haven't made any decisions. We are looking into ways of decreasing the size of Thors further, since repairing them is so effective, or making the AI target repairing scvs with priority in order to kill them more easily. There are no decisions yet, we are keeping on eye on it.

*Q. I would like to ask you for your opinions regarding the banshees*
A. We're getting a lot of feedback regarding banshees. We don't think it's overpowered at this point in time, and we will make decisions in 1~2 weeks after discussion. However, we've nerfed terran so much that if we do end up nerfing terran, we will do so very carefully. We are trying to avoid nerfing terran if we can.

*Q. We are seeing a decrease in cheesy play?*
A. We aren't looking to remove cheese. There are cannon rushes and gateway rushes, but we are trying to patch cheeses that are too strong. But again, we are not trying to remove them altogether.

Yay at possibly decreasing thor size









..now they need to do the same with ultras dangit!


----------



## thiru

Posted here a day or two ago lol.

Smaller ultra means more splash damage to other units.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Hmm, good point. And it can't have been posted that soon, blizzcon *just* happened. I know he ggave an interview last week or so too >_>


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Hmm, good point. And it can't have been posted that soon, blizzcon *just* happened. I know he ggave an interview last week or so too >_>

Oh yeah my bad, I read both interviews and posted one, and forgot about the other one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
yaay, finally got my hydra pic! Which for
some reason required 101 wins, not 100... D:

Nice, what did I tell you?







For some odd reason, you needed that extra win to get it, but, you still got it, congrats









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163417

David Kim Interview at Blizzcon!

Yay at possibly decreasing thor size









..now they need to do the same with ultras dangit!

Interesting interview. Seems most units they are looking at are T units such as marauder, banshees, thors and SCV repair. Personally, SCV repair is the only thing that I think should be fixed, but, everything else is fine


----------



## BigFan

Just had a crazy 2vs2 with Massiv. We were Z/P against T/Z. The game was a constant back and forth. We got attacked early by MM and roaches and survived albeit we almost lost. Then we went on the offensive at one point and attacked their base. They did some damage but nothing major. They would attack, we'll repel, build up and depending on situation, might attack or chose to defend. Eventually, I got some ultras+slings and used them to take down an MMM ball+3-4thors. His biggest mistake was dropping them right in the middle of my ultras, they didn't stand a chance







Unfortunately, due to a mistiming and the fact that the mothership moves so slowly, we moved our units into the center only to be confronted by a lot of hydras, some MM and thors. We ended up losing everything and weren't able to recover







It was still an interesting game though. I think next time I'll get more than 2 broodlords towards the end of the game and tech up much faster


----------



## turbocharged

Pretty cool screen shot me and a friend got the other night while playing a custom match against AI...big double terran MM ball with some BC's thrown in.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


I got hit by a cannon proxy at one point (not inside the base, but at my expansion) which I kinda beat back but it set me back so far that I couldn't keep up. Other than that, I just utterly despise how absurdly quickly a toss can recreate his army with warpgates.

I mean, the big thing about zerg is "you can create your waves very quickly!" Which applies to every unit, admittedly....

....but warpgates are the *exact same thing* with warpgate units. An entire slew of units at the drop of a hat. Especially considering how strong toss units are, that is just... ugh. (especially stalkers. Hate. Hate hate hate haaaaaaaaate)


I think Zerg is a little faster at recreating an army after one of those bloody battles that slaughters everybody on both sides. To take advantage you have to have nydus plus sight ready to go on a moment's notice, plus lots of larvae of course. I have a number of victories counterattacking via nydus after a big bloodbath outside one of my bases. My new favorite is the double-worm attack. If you have two networks you can make two worms simultaneously. It's much harder to knock out two worms than one, and if both survive you can disgorge your assault force at doubletime.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DEC_42*


If you're not out there keeping the pressure on you're opponent, you're doing it wrong. Zerg can crap creep out all over the map once they're at lair tech. Those'll stop pylons from being placed, and they'll tell you where your enemy's moving if they get shot at.

Proper scouting will let you onto what units to make, as well.


I've started getting the ventral sacs upgrade for overlords just so I can fly a queen around creeping out the map. The first queen always has lots of energy by midgame. Usually do 3 drops, making 3 tumors at each drop, then fan out tumors in a star pattern.


----------



## Rebellion88

Is there anyway to hide all the toolbars in SC2 to take better screenshots?


----------



## DoomDash

Will have 60 + bonus pool points when I get up tomorrow. We'll see how that works out. Been playing New Vegas non-stop.

TLO switches to Z permanently









http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=163211


----------



## poroboszcz

Looks like he choses whatever race is OP at the moment.









I've bee playing New Vegas for a while as well. Yesterday played some sc2 and ended up with something like 2-5. After 3 loses in a row I decided to do korean warp gate rush in PvP, but pressed H instead of G and ended up with four gateways, no units and hallucination


----------



## deanlewandowski

Me trying to learn Protoss in a 2v2 game with Big Fan as my partner.
I know I have a TON of room for improvement if any Protoss players want to watch and let me know any of the hundreds of things Im sure I did wrong.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*




Me trying to learn Protoss in a 2v2 game with Big Fan as my partner.
I know I have a TON of room for improvement if any Protoss players want to watch and let me know any of the hundreds of things Im sure I did wrong.










I think you did great, although, the one thing I would point out is that I think, but, not positive that you didn't have much wrapgates. I've had protoss players have up to 8 or 10, so, that they can reinforce their army rather quickly after we finished our fight


----------



## deanlewandowski

What is the best Protoss unit against Zerg using mass Mutalisks?


----------



## thiru

Phoenix. But they need to microed too much and you can't outproduce mutas if he really wants them. 
Otherwise blink stalkers with sentries and armor and if you went twilight council might as well get high templar instead of colossi.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


What is the best Protoss unit against Zerg using mass Mutalisks?


''Blink'' Stalkers, sentries and High Templar storm are usually best. Dont try to win the air superiority fight by going phoenixes because you will end up being overran on the ground if you tech up to phoenix.

Every time the Zerg comes into your base to harass, if they KNOWS you have blink, even a few stalkers will make them overcautious, if not discourage them alltogether.


----------



## durch

Yea stalkers with blink is a must, and high templar are a better option that phoenix because they can psionic storm mutas or anything else the zerg throws at you, whereas the phoenix are only going to help you with anti-air (unless you micro like crazy). The downside of psionic storm is that the mutas will probably instantly move out of the target zone and possibly fly to another area of your base, forcing the high templar to keep chasing them. If you can't seem to get the high storm to work well, just slap two high templar together and make an archon. They are very effective against biological units, making them a great anti-zerg weapon. Additionally, they do splash damage which can devastate the clustered mutas. But sacrificing two high templar to form one archon is a big investment. Basically means the archon cost you 100 minerals and 300 gas. You can also turn dark templar into archons which can save a little gas (50) but cost more minerals (150).


----------



## deanlewandowski

Really funny PvP match here:


Guy tried to cannon rush me.
I was not scouting at all, not really paying attention, my mind was elsewhere.
So I decided to rush his base and, like I thought, he had zero defenses.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
What is the best Protoss unit against Zerg using mass Mutalisks?

Stalkers+blink and HTs+storm are the best options. Phoenixes are good versus a small group but not a large amount especially if they go for a surround









BTW, I took a look at our replay from last night. There are a couple of tips I can give you.
1. Gateways: You only had 3 in total. If you have the resources, go for 8 or so at the minimum. Also, research wrapgates, since, with wrapgates, you get the unit almost instanteously(5 sec wrap time) and the production time goes down by 10 as well.
2. Resources: You had 5k and 2-3k gas. You could have easily laid down 10+gateways or more stargates and pumped out some carriers. Alternatively, you could have went with stalkers+zealots. Either way, with your mothership, you would've been able to put a real dent in the army before they take it out. Basically, whenever you see you have money piling up, use it for something. In my case, I had 1k minerals, but, my gas was down to 300 towards the end of the game since I was constantly trying to make ultralisks, mutalisks, etc.... and using minerals for slings.
3. Try to use ht, dt and sentries more often: Towards the start of the game, you ff the ramp and we were able to buy some time to repel it otherwise I would've lost my base, so, more sentries with some nice FF like that could split their army and along with GS will help reduce damage to your stalkers. HTs would've helped a lot since ALL their units were clustered together so a couple of storms in the middle would've devasted hydras since they move slowly, likewise MM was moving slowly due to them being in the front. As for dt, it's really preference. Finally, you didn't go for any colossus in the matchup which could've helped against MMM ball, however, again it's preference








4. Proxy pylons: The nice thing about wrapgates is that you can wrap units anywhere there is a pylon. What this means is that you could've put a pylon near the back of their base and all over the map and then wrapped in some dts and took out some drones, scv, etc.... to destroy their eco








Other than these minor points, you did pretty well, just more practice


----------



## Tchernobyl

found on starcraft2.com forums~


----------



## the.FBI

The protoss vs muta issue isn't as simple as one unit. Remember, toss are generally the aggressive race, a zerg needs 2 bases with 4 gas to produce lots of mutas and getting to lair tech and a spire takes time. This is the time when you want to make life difficult for your opponent, the earliest thing you can do to mess with zerg is stop a fast expo with a scout worker. This requires quite a bit of micro but it can be well worth it, send a 9 scout to their base and wait at the ramp, when you see a drone approaching quickly run down to the expo and block it by sitting where the expo has to be planted. The drone should attack your probe but with a bit of micro you should be able to dance around while preventing the expo from going up. This can buy you up to about 30 seconds of time if done well and often forces a change of plan for the zerg from 14 hatch 14 pool 14 gas to 14 pool and get hatch when he can get it unblocked. This buys you vital time. On top of this you can use early pushes, while not as effective since the roach buff a 3 gate push while expoing or transitioning can cause a lot of hurt. Push in with your force while dropping a proxy pylon and attack the expo while force fielding your opponents ramp, this will prevent any units in his main from helping the expo and can often guarantee a kill on it. This buys you more time to prevent mutas and gain a 2 to 1 base advantage on a zerg which, if followed up well, is almost a certain win. *The end all unit against mutas are high temps with storm and amulet.* this allows you to attack but warp in hts with energy for storm on spawn and lets you have some defense to buy time or, if your opponent is clumsy, kill his attack entirely. If you delay your opponent you can easily get 2 gate with 2 stargate phoenix production going before any mutas spawn which can nullify them entirely and gives you the capability to overlord hunt. Blink stalkers are also very good as they allow you to deal with the extreme mobility of mutas. With high templar you can use your out of energy hts to make archons which are very good against mutas as well.


----------



## koven

anyone here want to play some 2v2 or 3v3?

add koven 277

i'm diamond 1v1 but havent played in a while, getting back into it tho


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg can go die.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koven* 
anyone here want to play some 2v2 or 3v3?

add koven 277

i'm diamond 1v1 but havent played in a while, getting back into it tho

Alright, im in. Just logged in right now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg can go die.

LOOOL, i just realized how hard a good econ zerg can be. U should welcome the challenge. U dont want it to always be easy, do ya? your skillz would just rust!


----------



## DoomDash

Every Zerg is good econ in Diamond, esp now that the risk/reward of hatch first is almost always worth it.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Every Zerg is good econ in Diamond, esp now that the risk/reward of hatch first is almost always worth it.

Yeah, i just learned that too lol. Especially if i skip the first few zerglings and only make one, its soo good!


----------



## Domino

I'ma confess. I'm one of those proxxy rushin' fa.....

Right now we are currently working over our strat. Although for some reason proxxy rushing works in platnium 2v2 it doesn't have the slightest bit of strength in silver. Therefore we are doing 2 things, overhalling our proxxy strat or developing a new strat all together. Preparing to a bunch of losses.

Anyone else, who did a lot of proxxy or even used a certain strat for awhile beginning to change it up completely?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*











found on starcraft2.com forums~


That's pretty nice









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Zerg can go die.


lol, sounds like someone has been loosing to zerg a lot lately. Either way, the +1 roach range means that the ones in the back can take a shot instead of just dancing around, other than that, they are still hard countered by marauders and stalkers like they were before, so, really I don't see why you would be having difficulties now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


LOOOL, i just realized how hard a good econ zerg can be. U should welcome the challenge. U dont want it to always be easy, do ya? your skillz would just rust!


Take it from someone who plays only zerg 1vs1 games. If I have my eco down tight and especially when I have 3 hatcheries or so, I'm able to pump out some units like slings like crazy. I played a game with Massiv against a T&P. Basically, I had 3 hatcheries+3 queens and when I decided to make a push, I made over 50 slings. I did this twice, possibly three times in a row and along with Massiv's protoss units, we were able to easily overwhelm our opponents. Simply put, a zerg who has good eco and is constantly scouting is a zerg that will be very hard to beat









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Every Zerg is good econ in Diamond, esp now that the risk/reward of hatch first is almost always worth it.


The risk is higher than most people think. Most who play T or P are in the mindset that you can't stop an expanding zerg which is untrue. Hellion rushes, zealot rushes, marine rushes, etc.... are still very viable. I did a 15 hatch/14 pool against a protoss yesterday and only had a couple of zerglings for defense in my main with 2 crawlers. He attacked with 5 zealots, so, I made a mistake and cancelled my exp. I couldn't fight back, so, I tried to go for roaches, but, by then, he had a probe build a pylon where my exp is and was wraping in stalkers+sentries. Everytime I tried to attack him with some force, he'll ff my ramp splitting my force in half. Eventually, I got some slings past his forces right into his main and took out his probes, however, the force waiting outside my base was too strong to hold back and he completely decimated my base. That 5 zealot rush was what caused this otherwise I'm pretty confident that I would've been able to take him down. In another game from a couple of days back when I was on my losing steak, a terran went 3 or 4 rax and attacked with marines. I held off the first couple of small waves with zerglings and teched to banes, however, I didn't have enough gas to make a decent amount of them and eventually, he massed enough marines to withstand some banelings, zerglings and 2 crawlers. Suffice to say, I lost to mass marines. I'm pretty sure Tchernobyl has his own stories about proxies and marines as well


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That's pretty nice









lol, sounds like someone has been loosing to zerg a lot lately. Either way, the +1 roach range means that the ones in the back can take a shot instead of just dancing around, other than that, they are still hard countered by marauders and stalkers like they were before, so, really I don't see why you would be having difficulties now.


It actually makes roaches quite a lot more effective. Stalker has never been a "hard" counter to them, maybe you're thinking about immortal. Stalkers were pretty even against roaches with some micro. With increased range they are a bit harder to kite now. Anyway I think it may be more about the metagame and the fact that more zerg players just learned how to play. I'm having a lot of problems against zerg lately, even though it used to be my best matchup. It seems I play much more PvZs on the ladder as well.


----------



## blackedv

ive been trying to friend up with people so i dont play alone







i think im decent but i need more people to play with mostly team games so if any of yall are looking for more friends hit me up. BAD character code 987


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That's pretty nice









lol, sounds like someone has been loosing to zerg a lot lately. Either way, the +1 roach range means that the ones in the back can take a shot instead of just dancing around, other than that, they are still hard countered by marauders and stalkers like they were before, so, really I don't see why you would be having difficulties now.*Because if I make marauders I can't afford to properly tech, or mutas become a problem. It's a super complicated very touchy build I have to do to be able to deal with roach and muta/bane. The hardest part is the economy they will have expanding with little risk. I might have to figure out a safe early expo expand if I see them expand as well. *

The risk is higher than most people think. Most who play T or P are in the mindset that you can't stop an expanding zerg which is untrue.

*Listen to the pros talk about having no fear in doing hatch first these days. They can easily hold off any hellion harass if they are any good. Dito for Reapers. Super safe.*












Didn't quite make 1600 tonight.


----------



## ThumperSD

I almost always do a 2gate/4gate push against zergs who FE.


----------



## DoomDash

wow gsl spoiler

Fruiter Dealer out!!! to the boxer fake


----------



## thiru




----------



## NorCa

omg how did he lose vs terran! i just woke up, i missed the match


----------



## DoomDash

Very fast, to a marine only fast expand lol

Very good micro, very interesting build.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I don't understand how some pros play Fruitdealer. Everybody knows he's a compulsive expander but many players keep letting him off the hook for it. Are people scared of him? In the link below oGsTheSTC stuck to basic units(MMM + tank) with a few hellions for harass. He attacked the Fruitman early and often. oGsTheSTC won easily, and he only had two bases producing until the last minute of the game. It wasn't a creative game plan, nor did it need to be. He basically just shoved a gazillion marines down Fruitdealer's throat while tanks keep creeping in closer. Why doesn't everybody do this? I keep seeing games where Fruitdealer quickly expands way beyond the defensive capabilities of his army and opponents don't make him pay for it. If you know a guy has an extreme mania for fast expansion then why wouldn't you exploit that?

  
 [Korean Pros] A Fruit Dealer -TSLCool- (Z) VS oGsTheSTC (T) Starcraft 2


----------



## Nevaziah

Lucas is right. Zerg is VERy vulnerable right before that first expansion is fully functional, hence why even Day9 recommends making a lot of queens and maybe 2 to 3 roaches instead of too many zerglings to defend against that early harass (hellions, banshees).

Terrans can preety much do whatever they want before that second hatch comes up, but you have to be carefull still, sometimes the zerg will go straight for mass lings and banelings off one base, but once you see them expand, you should be harassing them.

I was practicing the 14 hatch, 15 pool build with zerg and it works GREAT when there is no agression. I played a gainst a terran who made 3 hellions but i had speed lings so he was afraid to come out of his base. 
I lost the game cause I sat back too long and he had MAAAAASS thors but i had a LOT of chances to beat him since he just sat in his base. If i had made banelings quicker instead of only mutas, i coulda busted his door and won. GOD i gotta get into the habbit of using banelings vs terran earlier. Im still gettin used to the fast expand build, but so far ive got the early scouting down, the expansion and the queen timings. I just gotta get the midgame scouting down and the quick baneling nest to apply preassure once the natural expo is down.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blackedv*


ive been trying to friend up with people so i dont play alone







i think im decent but i need more people to play with mostly team games so if any of yall are looking for more friends hit me up. BAD character code 987


I added you, been trying to do more team games.
My UN is: Massiv 955


----------



## poroboszcz

Wow, nice matches today. Has anyone got a link to ro32 VODs?


----------



## thiru

http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/season/2

I'm currently doing the campaign and I'm about to land on Char and it says I won't be able to come back. But will I still be able to make upgrades to units afterwards?

edit: nevermind looks like you can.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

What's funny to me is that the one thing I fear most as a crappy zerg player is early two-base MMMT aggression, and it's the same thing that appears to be a weakness for a pro zerg player like Fruitdealer. I'm a lot less scared when T gets creative and makes banshees and thors and other expensive gadgets. When it's just straight MMMT coming in successive waves then I usually get swamped before long.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I was practicing the 14 hatch, 15 pool build with zerg and it works GREAT when there is no agression.


That's why some of the pro builds are pretty useless to us dudes in the amateur leagues. The pros appear to have a gentleman's agreement against cheese or anything excessively rushy. There's no gentleman's agreement for the rest of us, except maybe in diamond league. Try doing that 14 hatch 15 pool stuff in the lower leagues and you'll die a thousand deaths from cheese.


----------



## rhed5

That is not the case at all. They aren't cheesing because of some "gentlemen's agreement" but rather because they probably don't like their chances of it succeeding. If they think an all-in cheese strat gives them the best possibility of winning, they will do it every time.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


That is not the case at all. They aren't cheesing because of some "gentlemen's agreement" but rather because they probably don't like their chances of it succeeding. If they think an all-in cheese strat gives them the best possibility of winning, they will do it every time.


^ This.

Cheese strats are very hit or miss, if they fail you usually just blew the game for yourself.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It actually makes roaches quite a lot more effective. Stalker has never been a "hard" counter to them, maybe you're thinking about immortal. Stalkers were pretty even against roaches with some micro. With increased range they are a bit harder to kite now. Anyway *I think it may be more about the metagame and the fact that more zerg players just learned how to play.* I'm having a lot of problems against zerg lately, even though it used to be my best matchup. It seems I play much more PvZs on the ladder as well.


Well, maybe a soft counter then. I did a roach vs. stalker pre-latest patch and stalker won with 35hp, no kiting. Had it been micro'd though, I would think it would be higher than that. I think you are correct about the metagame and the fact that those who stuck with the race are now winning more games









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Because if I make marauders I can't afford to properly tech, or mutas become a problem. It's a super complicated very touchy build I have to do to be able to deal with roach and muta/bane. The hardest part is the economy they will have expanding with little risk. I might have to figure out a safe early expo expand if I see them expand as well.


well, marauder don't cost much gas(25) and missile turrets and marines only cost minerals, so, I don't see the problem of doing both. You can easily order an SCV to build missile turrets around your CC and around the edge of your base, let's see some mutalisks enter it then, I know that whenever I see that many turrets, I back off and try to find an opening or at least do some push to eliminate the turrets before I try to enter. Also, 5 tanks or so near your main entrance along with an SCV repairing the depot, barrack, etc.... means that banes won't get close enough to destroy your depot and even if they did, your SCV can repair or build another one. So, really as long as you get some turrets up with some tanks for some bane d, you can repel mutalisks, slings+blings and roaches due to marauders. Of course, you'll need to time everything down and get tanks a little faster to deal with banes and that's mostly practice. Just my opinion









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Listen to the pros talk about having no fear in doing hatch first these days. They can easily hold off any hellion harass if they are any good. Dito for Reapers. Super safe.









Didn't quite make 1600 tonight.


Well, maybe at their level, it is easier to counter harass due to their training, but, from what I've seen, it seems that their is more harassement in the lower leagues









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*













Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


omg how did he lose vs terran! i just woke up, i missed the match










oh boy, don't like the sounds of that, lol, I have yet to watch all of the matches from RO64









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


That's why some of the pro builds are pretty useless to us dudes in the amateur leagues. The pros appear to have a gentleman's agreement against cheese or anything excessively rushy. There's no gentleman's agreement for the rest of us, except maybe in diamond league. Try doing that 14 hatch 15 pool stuff in the lower leagues and you'll die a thousand deaths from cheese.


There is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement. I can't remember what game it was, but, it was a TvsP. The protoss snuck a probe in and built a pylon right in the corner of the terran's base in Xelnaga cavern. Likewise, I've seen 6 pool from Fruitdealer and other forms of cheese from other pros.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


That is not the case at all. They aren't cheesing because of some "gentlemen's agreement" but rather because they probably don't like their chances of it succeeding. If they think an all-in cheese strat gives them the best possibility of winning, they will do it every time.


Pretty much true


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer, Nada, and Idra!! w000


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Boxer, Nada, and Idra!! w000

huh? I'm still watching RO64 and soon 32, don't spoil it just yet


----------



## DoomDash

Well hurry up. ^^


----------



## Tchernobyl

This was an odd match. I don't think the guy was very good, but I wasn't at my best either









He had a few attacks at the start, and I then counterattacked him, but mistakenly took a queen and drones with me to his base (which had supply depots lowered so i could waltz in)... I used the chance to spread creep there to prevent rebuilding, and then it was a minor back and forth... Or rather, I proceeded to annihilate his base while he had some hit and runs at my bases 

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernobyl/oi.SC2Replay

definitely not my best game, but the most  worthy


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well hurry up. ^^

lol, I can only go through so many matches per day, I know its hard to believe, but, there is more to life than SC2
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
This was an odd match. I don't think the guy was very good, but I wasn't at my best either









He had a few attacks at the start, and I then counterattacked him, but mistakenly took a queen and drones with me to his base (which had supply depots lowered so i could waltz in)... I used the chance to spread creep there to prevent rebuilding, and then it was a minor back and forth... Or rather, I proceeded to annihilate his base while he had some hit and runs at my bases 

http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernobyl/oi.SC2Replay

definitely not my best game, but the most  worthy

Sounds interesting, I'll try to take a look later on once I watch some more matches


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, I can only go through so many matches per day, I know its hard to believe, but, there is more to life than SC2
















You mean Fallout New Vegas, PS3, ect?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You mean Fallout New Vegas, PS3, ect?

















I haven't even played FO3 yet even though I have the game sitting around(GOTY edition as well) and I don't have a ps3 either


----------



## Tchernobyl

What are you doing chatting on the forum! Watch the replay!

/whipcrack


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
What are you doing chatting on the forum! Watch the replay!

/whipcrack
















lol, I'm watching the RO64 games, almost done, just soo many to watch. The replay will be watched in due time


----------



## thiru

Lol I'm watching this random stream and the streamer is playing against Darrenc, who is the winner of OCN's tournament IIRC (it's Oktoberfest I think).


----------



## tryagainplss

Like any other discussion about SC-2 this thread will eventually lead to the fact that terran is still OP (even after 1.1.2)

xD

Just kidding, but not about terran being OP


----------



## yellowtoblerone

They're not so much op but easy to play as well as have more options of early harass to t3 units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


They're not so much op but easy to play as well as have more options of early harass to t3 units.


Pretty much true. EMP is amazing against P units and marauders with concussive shells are great at kiting zealots and decent enough against stalkers. Vikings have pretty long range with good damage and thors are their all in one unit having the longest air range in the game(10 I believe). I think they are well rounded, likewise P is great with their units. FF and GS are great if used properly and the colossus along with zealot+stalkers makes a great combo. Personally, I think T and P are great as is, although, I dislike the supply depot before barracks idea. The only issue I have with zerg is the fact that we have no T1 or T1.5 aa units which means that I must tech to hydras or mutalisks or my only other option is to lay down spore crawlers. Unfortunately, I get my chamber rather late since I concentrate on getting my exp up and making some d incase of an early push(these have cost me games) and I've had games where I lost just because my opponent went straight for a banshee or void rays and I built my spore crawlers too late or didn't tech fast enough. Despite what people say, the queen loses 1vs1 to a banshee, so, if you have only queen, it's pretty much GG unless they attacked your exp giving you the time to build crawlers


----------



## poroboszcz

Terran's not OP anymore. Zerg is now.









I think rax after depot was a really good change. Terran is still safe against any rushes because of wall and you don't get reapers or marauders in your base before you have any units out. People were complaining about it since the beta. I met a guy in a custom game who is in ~1500 diamond and he admitted he got there by going 7rax reaper in every game. Since the patch he needs to practice to actually learn how to play lol.

The only thing I find a bit ridiculous is when you look at the score screen and there's a workers count, and you made like 78 workers while terran had, say, 45 through the whole game, but the amount of resources gathered is pretty much equal. This and planetary fortress.


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/starcr...ich/43475.html

very interesting use of html5. Click on the various images on top to select a different scene. Then mouse over the slider thing in the middle of the larger image, and move it left and right. It shows you the image with max details vs lowest details of the game. Very nifty use of it!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Terran's not OP anymore. *Zerg is now*.









I think rax after depot was a really good change. Terran is still safe against any rushes because of wall and you don't get reapers or marauders in your base before you have any units out. People were complaining about it since the beta. I met a guy in a custom game who is in ~1500 diamond and he admitted he got there by going 7rax reaper in every game. Since the patch he needs to practice to actually learn how to play lol.

The only thing I find a bit ridiculous is when you look at the score screen and there's a workers count, and you made like 78 workers while terran had, say, 45 through the whole game, but the amount of resources gathered is pretty much equal. This and planetary fortress.






































lol, Jk of course, but, nope I think all the races are pretty balanced aside from the no AA in the early game for zerg. I'm not soo sure about the rax thing though. I mean what if the opponent 6 pools, I would assume you would get a barrack and a depot up, however, will you get the next one in time? I don't really know, since, I don't play much T or P. 1500 diamond on just reapers, lol, they are pretty powerful but that explains why Blizzard nerfed them. As to the worker thing, TBH, I always have around the same number of workers as my opponent, mostly because I saturate my base and use my exp mostly for gas, but, I'm working on it


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/starcr...ich/43475.html

very interesting use of html5. Click on the various images on top to select a different scene. Then mouse over the slider thing in the middle of the larger image, and move it left and right. It shows you the image with max details vs lowest details of the game. Very nifty use of it!


That's pretty neat


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Terran's not OP anymore. Zerg is now.









I think rax after depot was a really good change. Terran is still safe against any rushes because of wall and you don't get reapers or marauders in your base before you have any units out. People were complaining about it since the beta. I met a guy in a custom game who is in ~1500 diamond and he admitted he got there by going 7rax reaper in every game. Since the patch he needs to practice to actually learn how to play lol.

The only thing I find a bit ridiculous is when you look at the score screen and there's a workers count, and you made like 78 workers while terran had, say, 45 through the whole game, but the amount of resources gathered is pretty much equal. This and planetary fortress.


That's because we can't chrono boost / build multiple drones at once. Terran will almost always be down on SCV's..which is why mule sniping or forcing scans is hella important.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*









I haven't even played FO3 yet even though I have the game sitting around(GOTY edition as well) and I don't have a ps3 either










I <3 both FO3 and PS3







.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Lol I'm watching this random stream and the streamer is playing against Darrenc, who is the winner of OCN's tournament IIRC (it's Oktoberfest I think).


Yep. That's cool though







.

Speaking of easy to play: Protoss.

But I have to say I do think Z is the strongest currently. Could be wrong though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's because we can't chrono boost / build multiple drones at once. Terran will almost always be down on SCV's..which is why mule sniping or forcing scans is hella important.

Speaking of easy to play: Protoss.

But I have to say I do think Z is the strongest currently. Could be wrong though.


If you can get your eco down as Z and keep on scouting, then you would be able to defend any pushes and do your own attacks, however, I think the fact that most T and P expand later into the game plays a part in their struggle against Z. I'm not saying expand early like the zerg does, but, get the expansion once you have enough units to defend it as well as your base. That would help you keep up with their economy and with good micro, you can stop any attack, of course, this takes into account scouting constantly


----------



## deanlewandowski

3v3 replay for Big Fan
(One you got dropped from)



Hmmm...
gamereplays.org doesn't want me to upload this apparently?
will try tomorrow as its almost 3am here


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


3v3 replay for Big Fan
(One you got dropped from)



Hmmm...
gamereplays.org doesn't want me to upload this apparently?
will try tomorrow as its almost 3am here


np, thanks for trying, maybe it'll work tommorrow. Too bad I got dropped a bit before they made their attack, I might've been able to help :/

Edit: I was able to dl replay, will watch tommorrow, thanks


----------



## thiru

ZvZ sucks.


----------



## scaz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


ZvZ sucks.


Yep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


ZvZ sucks.


lol, you play protoss, why would it matter?


----------



## thiru

Talking about the GSL.


----------



## DoomDash

Are the matches up anywhere yet ?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are the matches up anywhere yet ?

Have you tried the website that thiru posted several posts back or that justin.tv one that cory posted a while back?


----------



## DoomDash

Yep.


----------



## thiru

GomTV has the first game of each matchup.


----------



## jprovido

why is my starcraft 2 freezing at the login screen?


----------



## BigFan

^^ I had that happen at one point when there was something wrong on Blizzard's end. It started fine later on









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yep.

oh, then the only place I think of is GomTV unless you can find them posted on another website


----------



## poroboszcz

If you don't mind commentary in korean, here's the only place I've found that has all the games up to date: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/anfree


----------



## BigFan

You know, it's kinda funny that I used to cringe at the sight of going up against T back when I didn't know how to deal with the MMM ball. Once I discovered banes, taking it down was a snap and all it required was for me to get the timing right considering the early exp and that sometimes that I'll focus on macro too much and forget about making units until the attack







However, recently, it's been much harder to deal with T. Thors seem to be the common denominator in all these encounters. A 400 hp unit that does 60 damage(30x2) and hits both air(range 10 which is highest in game) and ground. I always thought that they are strong units, but, having lots of slings with some roaches will help take them down easily and they usually do UNTIL you have 4-5 SCVs constantly repairing them, then it's a losing battle. Your in a bad situation already when you have lost most of your units to an attack, but, getting attacked with another 3-4 thors with SCVs repairing is just plain annoying. Why can't there be one SCV max repairing them? I know blizzard is looking into it, but, with 4-5scvs repairing and a couple of thors, it's pretty hard to take them down unless your army is far superior in number. 
One of the games I played today, terran harassed early on with some MM+hellions with blue flame. I withstood an early attack, albeit a little unexpected and decided to do a little counter for intel. I find his combo and start making more units and defense in time for his attack. Let's just say that after that, it was a downhill battle and I ended up losing the game. 
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...e-basin#rd:dna
I think the two biggest issue is that I just find it really annoying that your units don't automatically attack the SCVs and instead go for the thor. I know about the slipknot technique but I keep on forgetting to down it because I'm constantly rallying my units to attack. Blizzard said that they are looking into this as well, so, I'm hoping that they reduce the number of SCVs repairing thors to something more reasonable and I'm hoping that they fix SCV priority when they are repairing said unit







Overall, I think it was an interesting game, definitely one of the harder ones I've had. His unit combo was also well thought out. Hellions+flame for slings+blings, MMM for further damage and thors+SCV for their dps. I'm in NO way saying they should nerf thors, they are FINE the way they are, but, having 5 SCV repairing a thor makes it much harder to take. I should've probably focus fired, but, when you barely have enough units to stop an attack, focus firing will do more harm than good. Did I mention that I forgot to magic box my mutalisks as well, so, you can tell what happened?









Edit: I should also mention that yes, I had a feeling that a banshee was coming but got my chamber too late as always. I think from now on, I'll start getting it when I get my pool and make some overseers as soon as I tech to lair


----------



## DoomDash

Thors are good but as Zerg its pretty easy to out macro Terran to the point of Thors being overwhelmed anyway. Also, IIRC Thor's AA range is 9 not 10.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thors are good but as Zerg its pretty easy to out macro Terran to the point of Thors being overwhelmed anyway. Also, IIRC Thor's AA range is 9 not 10.


well, yes, I agree, however, he had 7 hellions or so, so, they toasted all my slings before they had a chance for surround and even when I finally surrounded, the constant SCV repairing was too much and he came out with barely any hp lose. As for the AA of 9, it's still pretty high, I think someone mentioned the highest in the game









Edit: I should mention that it wasn't my greatest game and that banshee attack took down a decent number of drones, thus, destroying my eco which is when he attacked. Good timing on his part as well, likely since I found his combo.


----------



## mongorie

http://sc2rep.com/ has the Korean Vods with mandarin casting


----------



## dezshiz

Still cant believe Fruit Dealer lost D:

I see slayers boxers going to the finals


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dezshiz*


Still cant believe Fruit Dealer lost D:

I see slayers boxers going to the finals


I haven't finished watching all the games yet, so it's disappointing to hear he lost, was hoping he'll get to the finals







For future purposes, I would make sure to use spoiler tags to prevent others from reading this, since, most like me haven't had a chance to watch all the matches







I did have a strange feeling that he was going to lose although no one on the sc2 zerg forums mentioned it


----------



## dezshiz

lol D: sorry about that


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Guys if you are PT and got the wrong build vs Terran (Marine+Matauter+Heal Ship) whats the fastest way to counter it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dezshiz*


lol D: sorry about that










That does it, I'm reporting this!







Jk of course, it's ok, I had a pretty bad feeling that he lost but again he's only human, so, why was I expecting him to win GSL2 as well?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Guys if you are PT and got the wrong build vs Terran (Marine+Matauter+Heal Ship) whats the fastest way to counter it.


Good question, well assuming you have a little bit of time:
For protoss: Sentries and stalkers are definitely important. A ht would do well against the MMM ball with storm, especially if you double cast it provided you have more than one or saved the energy. Then just use forcefield and use your stalkers or zealots to pick off the rest. You can also feedback the medivacs so that it's not an issue. Alternatively, you could ff around the MMM ball,so, that they get trapped and then use storm twice right over it. This will take out everything and leave most of your units intact, however, you would need to be able to react rather quickly








For terran: Well, if they decide to go for a drop, you can try to snipe it with vikings. Alternatively, you can mass banshees and take out marines first then finish off the marauders using them since they don't hit air. If you have time, you can try and mass marines+marauders yourself.

I don't have crazy experience with either T or P, mostly Z player, but, I would assume these would work well provided you have a small window to make some units. It's all about how well you micro as well


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Guys if you are PT and got the wrong build vs Terran (Marine+Matauter+Heal Ship) whats the fastest way to counter it.


Protoss + Terran vs double Terran who went MMM?

P goes zealot+sentry heavy and T goes marine+medivac heavy I guess. Use those forcefields to stop them from kiting and let the zealot take all the damage (and dish it out as well).


----------



## blackedv

immortals work really good for the marauders then sentries and zealots to take the heat so your immortals can dish out some punishment, if u have time tech to colossi, thats what i do


----------



## BigFan

Had an interesting game against a diamond zerg. Even though I was able to expand earlier with more supply, about the same # of drones and more zlings, he read my moves(4 zlings coming only means scouting) and was able to put some good pressure and reach ahead doing some massive damage. I saw my average APM hit 81 in that game, probably the highest I've ever seen it. It was a constant battle of slings and trying defend against his massive army of slings and when blings were involved, it only got worse







Suffice to say, I lost


----------



## durch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Guys if you are PT and got the wrong build vs Terran (Marine+Matauter+Heal Ship) whats the fastest way to counter it.


SPOILER ALERT

*
*
*
*
*
*

HopeTorture wins this, but Pippijung does a good job of showing how to handle the MMM ball. Notice the very quick tech to stalker, you need to do this in a 1v1 against Terran as microed infantry can pick off zealots easily, and without a stalker right away Protoss are very vulnerable to a reaper rush.

Basically he has a good mix of stalkers, zealots, immortals, and sentries to force field and trap half of the ball, forcing the Terran to either sacrifice a good portion of his forces or try a medivac escape, which often results in the loss of the medivac and everything inside it (as happens in that matchup).

Once you are able to get colossus w/ range upgrade, that will help a lot with the MMM ball, but a smart Terran will have vikings to counter, as colossus are very vulnerable to air. You really just need to micro the heck out of a MMM ball and use strategy to split up the Terran forces anyway you can. Teching to Psionic storm and colossus helps, but if you rush to that tech you'll be caught severely outnumbered during the early-mid game and all the micro in the world won't save you.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thors are good but as Zerg its pretty easy to out macro Terran to the point of Thors being overwhelmed anyway. Also, IIRC Thor's AA range is 9 not 10.


How do you outmacro Terran when he goes to early MMM + tank aggression? I have yet to figure out an answer for that. You can't scout it in time. Terran can put Z into "desperate survival mode" pretty quickly with MMMT aggression, and it only requires two bases. Even if you guess it's coming it's hard to counter. And if you guess banshees are coming and you buy hydras, sporecrawlers and overseers then you might as well surrender immediately when that first wave of MMM and tanks show up. Same deal vs. P. If you guess void ray and subsequently find out your opponent was intent on stalker/colossus aggression, you're dead meat. I hate that a Z player has to just guess stuff in the early going and if luck isn't on his side he dies.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The only way you'd be caught off guard with early pressure if they go 1 maruader with 2 marine con shell timing push. Anything after that if you don't have enough to counter you're just not macroing good enough yet.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Guys if you are PT and got the wrong build vs Terran (Marine+Matauter+Heal Ship) whats the fastest way to counter it.


Macroing better Aka day9 toss macro strat

the quickest way to counter is to have more units than him to beat him.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
How do you outmacro Terran when he goes to early MMM + tank aggression? I have yet to figure out an answer for that. You can't scout it in time. Terran can put Z into "desperate survival mode" pretty quickly with MMMT aggression, and it only requires two bases. Even if you guess it's coming it's hard to counter. And if you guess banshees are coming and you buy hydras, sporecrawlers and overseers then you might as well surrender immediately when that first wave of MMM and tanks show up. Same deal vs. P. If you guess void ray and subsequently find out your opponent was intent on stalker/colossus aggression, you're dead meat. I hate that a Z player has to just guess stuff in the early going and if luck isn't on his side he dies.

I played a custom yesterday against a Gold T. I wasn't expecting this since he attacked with a hellion early on for some harass. He sieged some tanks along with marines+medivacs and a couple of marauders. I kept throwing slings+blings with roaches added in and all my roaches were slaughtered before taking out only 1 tank from the 5 he had







Game ended in 10 minutes total, I think. I made some mutas but, it was just as he started the assault and there were enough marines to prevent me from taking down the tanks+marauders


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer and Nada in the round of 8!!! w00t. They fight each other oh noes.


----------



## poroboszcz

I predict NEXGenius vs Boxer in the finals.


----------



## DoomDash

Well the next match is Boxer vs Nada... that will be nuts. 2 legends.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well the next match is Boxer vs Nada... that will be nuts. 2 legends.

Should be interesting. Don't they both use T as well?


----------



## thiru

Old but it made me lol and I found it again:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Old but it made me lol and I found it again:


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Should be interesting. Don't they both use T as well?









Yes, and both of them think TvT is their strongest. In the past Nada has always had better macro though.. so its going to be interesting.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yes, and both of them think TvT is their strongest. In the past Nada has always had better macro though.. so its going to be interesting.

Well, I'm definitely gonna make sure I watch that match


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Boxer and Nada in the round of 8!!! w00t. They fight each other oh noes.

Why doesn't boxer mass drop anymore? He did it when he first started SC2 but lately in his games he doesn't do too much drop harass, not compared to before.

Side note, I love how qxc would mass drop constantly in multiple fields of war.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Why doesn't boxer mass drop anymore? He did it when he first started SC2 but lately in his games he doesn't do too much drop harass, not compared to before.

Side note, I love how qxc would mass drop constantly in multiple fields of war.

Drops can be so devastating if your enemy doesn't catch it, but, maybe he thinks it's too risky?


----------



## Vhozard

Anyone following HuskyStarcraft on YouTube?
I think he's pretty cool IMHO


----------



## Rebellion88

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vhozard* 
Anyone following HuskyStarcraft on YouTube?
I think he's pretty cool IMHO









Yeah I do watch alot of his matches with TLO or HUK


----------



## poroboszcz

What do you guys think about my current PvT build (on maps with mid-long rush distances)? I think it's my best matchup at the moment. My macro wasn't so good this game, but I believe the build is quite solid.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


What do you guys think about my current PvT build (on maps with mid-long rush distances)? I think it's my best matchup at the moment. My macro wasn't so good this game, but I believe the build is quite solid.


Just watched, here are my thoughts:

That Terran player was terrible. His macro was awful, he forgot to mule, he didn't transfer SCV's to expo until far too late, he didn't add on enough rax, his micro was awful, and his unit composition was ******ed ( all marauders ).

As for you:

You Macro slips constantly. Money was too high many times.

You took your third too late.

I think you'd be better off splitting his forces in half, instead of trapping them. Trapping them is more important for heavy zealot play, splitting is more important for ranged unit play ( you take no hits from the ones in back if positioned properly, and its slaughter ).

Your APM is extremely high for your inefficiency. I don't know what the heck you are clicking ( I was watching your POV ), but I think you are wasting a ton of clicks on pointless things.

Poor scouting intel? I know it can be hard to scout a walled Terran but honestly if he went 100% marauders, and you went the build you did, a compotent Terran would have steam rolled you. If you see Marauders like that, forget Colossus and get some voids out. Did you get an observer quickly?

Fast expanding is good but risky vs Terran. A timing attack like mine would probably roflstomp you. When I played Oktoberfest in the Overclock.net finals he would wait until his first or second colossus was out to expand safely. If you expand before that a build like mine ( MMG timing push ) is almost impossible to stop. If you do it early enough however you can get away with it ( I've seen it before ), if he doesn't scout often enough.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Just watched, here are my thoughts:

That Terran player was terrible. His macro was awful, he forgot to mule, he didn't transfer SCV's to expo until far too late, he didn't add on enough rax, his micro was awful, and his unit composition was ******ed ( all marauders ).

As for you:

You Macro slips constantly. Money was too high many times.

You took your third too late.

I think you'd be better off splitting his forces in half, instead of trapping them. Trapping them is more important for heavy zealot play, splitting is more important for ranged unit play ( you take no hits from the ones in back if positioned properly, and its slaughter ).

Your APM is extremely high for your inefficiency. I don't know what the heck you are clicking ( I was watching your POV ), but I think you are wasting a ton of clicks on pointless things.

Poor scouting intel? I know it can be hard to scout a walled Terran but honestly if he went 100% marauders, and you went the build you did, a compotent Terran would have steam rolled you. If you see Marauders like that, forget Colossus and get some voids out. Did you get an observer quickly?

Fast expanding is good but risky vs Terran. A timing attack like mine would probably roflstomp you. When I played Oktoberfest in the Overclock.net finals he would wait until his first or second colossus was out to expand safely. If you expand before that a build like mine ( MMG timing push ) is almost impossible to stop. If you do it early enough however you can get away with it ( I've seen it before ), if he doesn't scout often enough.

Artosis thinks you should almost be on 3 bases for colossus







.

Anyone else watching the GSL? Only one protoss left...NexGenius all the way!

Edit: Doomdash you finally passed me. I haven't been able to play lately, except for some 3s, and 4s.


----------



## BigFan

Played some more custom game, two one against a diamond P and another against a diamond T. Well, I did well enough for my level of skill. I did finally realize my biggest problem. My micro is good enough but my macro is terrible. In terms of macro, I mean my economy. I expanded early on after I made some roaches to counter his zealot+sentry push, but, I didn't put any drones on minerals, I think I was only getting the gas, but, can't remember if that was even the case, so, basically I had an exp that wasn't used, lol compared to my opponent who had one and got a third right after my pressure.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...caverns#rd:dna

Before anyone points out, yes, I only had 23 or so drones compared to his 60 probes














I did manage to even it out a little bit, but, eventually I lost. I also wasn't making much units, not sure why that was the case, probably since I was harassing his base to keep some pressure on him and since I don't use hotkeys much(trying to get into them), I wasn't making units and forgetting to spread creep, spawn larva, etc.... Now if only I can get my eco up and running as well as making units and who knows what'll happen


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just watched, here are my thoughts:

That Terran player was terrible. His macro was awful, he forgot to mule, he didn't transfer SCV's to expo until far too late, he didn't add on enough rax, his micro was awful, and his unit composition was ******ed ( all marauders ).

As for you:

You Macro slips constantly. Money was too high many times.

You took your third too late.

I think you'd be better off splitting his forces in half, instead of trapping them. Trapping them is more important for heavy zealot play, splitting is more important for ranged unit play ( you take no hits from the ones in back if positioned properly, and its slaughter ).

Your APM is extremely high for your inefficiency. I don't know what the heck you are clicking ( I was watching your POV ), but I think you are wasting a ton of clicks on pointless things.

Poor scouting intel? I know it can be hard to scout a walled Terran but honestly if he went 100% marauders, and you went the build you did, a compotent Terran would have steam rolled you. If you see Marauders like that, forget Colossus and get some voids out. Did you get an observer quickly?

Fast expanding is good but risky vs Terran. A timing attack like mine would probably roflstomp you. When I played Oktoberfest in the Overclock.net finals he would wait until his first or second colossus was out to expand safely. If you expand before that a build like mine ( MMG timing push ) is almost impossible to stop. If you do it early enough however you can get away with it ( I've seen it before ), if he doesn't scout often enough.


This is so much appreciated. I've started doing this build about a week ago but I've had a lot of success with it. I know that it's very micro intensive, especially early game, which is something I need to improve on.

Half of my APM comes from spamming tbh, but I believie that it's on pretty good level both micro- and macro- wise. I'm not sure what do you mean by inefficiency. Early game I was scouting a lot and positioning my forces + macroing; late game I was getting all the upgrades and preparing a timing attack with zealot legs finished.

The terran wasn't so good, but somehow he was ~1000 diamond even though it didn't even look close.

I had an observer quite early and was keeping an eye on his forces throughout the whole game if you didn't notice. Maybe I'd have gone VR's, but I was just focused on the build (FE, Collos, Phoenix), so I didn't care.

I'm looking forward to have some practice games with you, but I just barely find any time to play at all at the moment.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Played some more custom game, two one against a diamond P and another against a diamond T. Well, I did well enough for my level of skill. I did finally realize my biggest problem. My micro is good enough but my macro is terrible. In terms of macro, I mean my economy. I expanded early on after I made some roaches to counter his zealot+sentry push, but, I didn't put any drones on minerals, I think I was only getting the gas, but, can't remember if that was even the case, so, basically I had an exp that wasn't used, lol compared to my opponent who had one and got a third right after my pressure.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...caverns#rd:dna

Before anyone points out, yes, I only had 23 or so drones compared to his 60 probes














I did manage to even it out a little bit, but, eventually I lost. I also wasn't making much units, not sure why that was the case, probably since I was harassing his base to keep some pressure on him and since I don't use hotkeys much(trying to get into them), I wasn't making units and forgetting to spread creep, spawn larva, etc.... Now if only I can get my eco up and running as well as making units and who knows what'll happen










Zerg is the best macro race so you better improve on that







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


This is so much appreciated. I've started doing this build about a week ago but I've had a lot of success with it. I know that it's very micro intensive, especially early game, which is something I need to improve on.

Half of my APM comes from spamming tbh, but I believie that it's on pretty good level both micro- and macro- wise. I'm not sure what do you mean by inefficiency. Early game I was scouting a lot and positioning my forces + macroing; late game I was getting all the upgrades and preparing a timing attack with zealot legs finished.

The terran wasn't so good, but somehow he was ~1000 diamond even though it didn't even look close.

I had an observer quite early and was keeping an eye on his forces throughout the whole game if you didn't notice. Maybe I'd have gone VR's, but I was just focused on the build (FE, Collos, Phoenix), so I didn't care.

I'm looking forward to have some practice games with you, but I just barely find any time to play at all at the moment.


Artosis says a lot of things lol.

As far as your wasted APM, I mean that you should have expanded / spent your money better, that's all. Over all you look pretty good, just a few things you need to work on. I have things I need to work on / suck at too.

But really I think you would have crushed even the first attack having split his units in half. Even if he had a way more powerful army a split in half army is going to get wrecked. That's why I always go ghosts because I hate Sentry.

But yeah I know you wanted to do that build but against a good player you better build based upon him, not what you want to do.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Artosis thinks you should almost be on 3 bases for colossus







.

Anyone else watching the GSL? Only one protoss left...NexGenius all the way!

Edit: Doomdash you finally passed me. I haven't been able to play lately, except for some 3s, and 4s.


I'm watching the GSL and loving it. Go boxer ( real one ). Fake boxer is now Foxer.

Yeah I passed you but I'm sure you have hella bonus pool and will fly right by.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg is the best macro race so you better improve on that







.

lol, they are. I love making 7 drones at once, it really increases your resources, although, in some cases, I use them for making structures or some defense, etc.... I think my problem is that I'm constantly scanning the map and trying to get intel on my opponent and since I don't use hotkeys well enough yet, I kinda forgo making units and an army until I see my opponent getting ready for a strike at which point I start to prepare an army and possibly run out of resources. One thing you do forget is that drones are used up when building, so, we have to be the best macro race to be able to constantly replace them. Making one worker at a time like a cc or nexus wouldn't work with zerg at all due to the way the race is structured







BTW, did you get a chance to watch the replay? What did you think about that harassement early on? Might have kept him on his toes if I had my exp up and running with the constant flow of units









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm watching the GSL and loving it. Go boxer ( real one ). Fake boxer is now Foxer.

Yeah I passed you but I'm sure you have hella bonus pool and will fly right by.

Well, Foxer took down one of the best, if not the best player, so, I think he deserves some credit, although, I haven't seen the game yet


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I give him credit for that. Boxer couldn't even do it in those Blizzcon matches.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah I give him credit for that. Boxer couldn't even do it in those Blizzcon matches.

Having not seen the game, I can't exactly comment on what he did, however, I think the mistake that was made was expanding early without making some strong defense against the fast marine rush


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


What do you guys think about my current PvT build (on maps with mid-long rush distances)? I think it's my best matchup at the moment. My macro wasn't so good this game, but I believe the build is quite solid.


You had a pretty solid build order but this is what I would have done differently.

UPGRADE THERMAL LANCE FOR COLOSSI! Most important upgrade for protoss. I think this was your biggest mistake here but luckily it did not matter.

Substitute your 2nd or 3rd gateway for a robo in case banshees come. You could also use this to make an extra immortal or two since all the terran made was marauders

I would have made just one stargate and pump out the phoenix nonstop. Save the rest of the money for warping zealots non-stop.

Ive been favoring storm over colossi against terran since vikes are so easy to make. But colossi can def be better in certain situations.


----------



## ThumperSD

we should some some 4v4s!! if anybody is interested


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Having not seen the game, I can't exactly comment on what he did, however, I think the mistake that was made was expanding early without making some strong defense against the fast marine rush









I don't know about that. That marine rush was just totally unexpected so he had no spine crawlers ect. Plus the marines were microed 100% perfect for it to work. It was risky but he got away with it. Hatch first ALWAYS vs Terran, just be ready. He just thought he could drone safely.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You had a pretty solid build order but this is what I would have done differently.

UPGRADE THERMAL LANCE FOR COLOSSI! Most important upgrade for protoss. I think this was your biggest mistake here but luckily it did not matter.

Substitute your 2nd or 3rd gateway for a robo in case banshees come. You could also use this to make an extra immortal or two since all the terran made was marauders

I would have made just one stargate and pump out the phoenix nonstop. Save the rest of the money for warping zealots non-stop.

Ive been favoring storm over colossi against terran since vikes are so easy to make. But colossi can def be better in certain situations.

Tech switch to Immortals if you see heavy viking ( keyword heavy ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't know about that. That marine rush was just totally unexpected so he had no spine crawlers ect. Plus the marines were microed 100% perfect for it to work. It was risky but he got away with it. Hatch first ALWAYS vs Terran, just be ready. He just thought he could drone safely.


Even then, it's still kinda disappointing to see someone of his caliber lose to such an attack, since, he always seemed prepared and evaded losing many times. I heard that even in the second game, he didn't change his strat and went 15 hatch like usual, maybe he didn't know other strats well enough? That doesn't make sense due to the amount of time they prepare on a daily basis, so, I'm guessing he thought that the same strat won't be used twice in a row. Suffice to say, he'll likely be more careful next time he plays in GSL3


----------



## DoomDash

Well how many times have you been rushed by 4 marines? lol. Yeah he wasn't expecting it either time. You can def beat a marine rush if you think its coming even hatching first. That's why when I practice Z in 1v1 for fun I let people know I'm hatching first. No one has beat me doing it yet. Open challenge to anyone. I know it can lose but if you do any normal style build / rush it's pretty safe. Now against an all in rush it can be dangerous.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You had a pretty solid build order but this is what I would have done differently.

UPGRADE THERMAL LANCE FOR COLOSSI! Most important upgrade for protoss. I think this was your biggest mistake here but luckily it did not matter.

Substitute your 2nd or 3rd gateway for a robo in case banshees come. You could also use this to make an extra immortal or two since all the terran made was marauders

I would have made just one stargate and pump out the phoenix nonstop. Save the rest of the money for warping zealots non-stop.

Ive been favoring storm over colossi against terran since vikes are so easy to make. But colossi can def be better in certain situations.

The problem is that it's impossible to go high templar on 1 base, and against an aggressive MMM terran it's really hard to expand first without robotics or HT (<-which is what we're trying to get).


----------



## DoomDash

I think you should generally go Colossus first ( better / safer tech path / observer on the way ), and use the colossus to expand / transition into templar. HuK stresses how important it is to use both. Once you get storm + amulet you should be in a great position. It can be difficult before that.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think you should generally go Colossus first ( better / safer tech path / observer on the way ), and use the colossus to expand / transition into templar. HuK stresses how important it is to use both. Once you get storm + amulet you should be in a great position. It can be difficult before that.


I prefer to start with robotics yeah. Not to mention it's almost twice as long to get high templar, and you get immortals (and observers) while teching to colossi.
(speaking of which, if you HT first you need to get illusion or robo to be able to scout, that's more gas you don't have).


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah HT first kinda sucks IMO. I've seen it work but its always just barely. If you get Colossus out and vikings are not ready, it's far from just barely.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well how many times have you been rushed by 4 marines? lol. Yeah he wasn't expecting it either time. You can def beat a marine rush if you think its coming even hatching first. That's why when I practice Z in 1v1 for fun I let people know I'm hatching first. No one has beat me doing it yet. Open challenge to anyone. I know it can lose but if you do any normal style build / rush it's pretty safe. Now against an all in rush it can be dangerous.

You'll be surprised. I've been attacked by marines right as my exp hatch finished and I've only had a chance to make a couple of zlings+2 crawlers. I did see it coming though since I had control of the towers and in a way, yes, it wasn't exactly what happened with Fruitdealer, but, the closest to it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
The problem is that it's impossible to go high templar on 1 base, and against an aggressive MMM terran it's really hard to expand first without robotics or HT (<-which is what we're trying to get).

Well, why not expand early then? A zealot+stalker+sentry army is great against MMM IF you micro well and use FF to split the army in half. You could alternatively mix in some dts with your army to do more dps and MOST terrans won't notice, since, they are concerned with what they see. I would to expand similar to how zerg expand, since at that point in time, most opponents decide to wait longer to mass a larger ball if T and this somewhat holds true with P players. Then you can use chronoboost to focus on getting probes to harvest gas and quickly tech to ht or dt to repel the incoming attack







Reason I say they wait, is that the P and T diamond players I played with, they attacked pretty late in the game when they massed a large amount of units(P actually attacked early with small force but went on the defensive when I countered his forces)









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think you should generally go Colossus first ( better / safer tech path / observer on the way ), and use the colossus to expand / transition into templar. HuK stresses how important it is to use both. Once you get storm + amulet you should be in a great position. It can be difficult before that.

hmm, I would think 2 storms right above an MMM ball will wipe out most marines and at least 1/2 hp of marauders meaning less units for your zealot+stalker+sentry army to deal with


----------



## DoomDash

If Terran pushes before storm is researched though you are in trouble. I've gotten to peoples bases with plenty of MMG before storm was done. If it is done, you only have enough for like 2 at most.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, why not expand early then? A zealot+stalker+sentry army is great against MMM IF you micro well and use FF to split the army in half. You could alternatively mix in some dts with your army to do more dps and MOST terrans won't notice, since, they are concerned with what they see. I would to expand similar to how zerg expand, since at that point in time, most opponents decide to wait longer to mass a larger ball if T and this somewhat holds true with P players. Then you can use chronoboost to focus on getting probes to harvest gas and quickly tech to ht or dt to repel the incoming attack







Reason I say they wait, is that the P and T diamond players I played with, they attacked pretty late in the game when they massed a large amount of units(P actually attacked early with small force but went on the defensive when I countered his forces)










I'm talking about aggressive terrans here... expanding before him or before you get a couple of colossi is suicide. Unless you've got pro micro and can hold off a 3 rax push with 1 warpgate.

edit: and DTs take way too long to research, and he's just going to rush to your (empty) base after taking care of the DTs. And if they're in your army they're really not going to do much difference since he's going to have an army twice as big after the first 5 seconds of engagement.


----------



## DoomDash

I actually think DT's can work pretty well against Terran. They give you map control. The important part is hiding the tech.


----------



## thiru

Too bad dark shrine takes 100 seconds to build and 250 gas.


----------



## DoomDash

I still wanna see an upgrade at the dark shrine. Charge ability that uncloaks DT's while charging!!! Optional to turn on or off. That would be aweesssomeee.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I still wanna see an upgrade at the dark shrine. Charge ability that uncloaks DT's while charging!!! Optional to turn on or off. That would be aweesssomeee.


An uncloaked DT is a dead DT... I mean seriously they have 80/40, that's FORTY health if EMP'ed.


----------



## DoomDash

+20 hp buff included.


----------



## DoomDash

Favorite players for each race, GO! :

Terran - SlayerS~Boxer
Protoss - White-Ra
Zerg - FruitDealer


----------



## thiru

I'll try this DT madness anyway, to see how fast I can get it out.


----------



## DoomDash

Just think about how much money you'll waste of his forcing scans / turrets / ravens. Be sure to keep them separated or you deserve to lose







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just think about how much money you'll waste of his forcing scans / turrets / ravens. Be sure to keep them separated or you deserve to lose







.


The thing is, I only have a problem (for now) with fast 3 rax pushes. I'm worried he'll just think "screw this" and attack anyway while waiting for a scan, and he'll probably win.


----------



## DoomDash

Just FF. Honestly that's always the answer. I wish I had over stupid ramp blocks.

Anyway answer my favorite players question on the last page.


----------



## thiru

Mmmh

Protoss: Kiwikaki
Zerg: FruitDealer
Terran: I dunno... haven't really paid attention to any one of them in particular... BoxeR's really impressive I guess.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Mmmh

Protoss: Kiwikaki
Zerg: FruitDealer
Terran: I dunno... haven't really paid attention to any one of them in particular... BoxeR's really impressive I guess.


Please tell me you watched that SC1 highlight of boxer I posted?


----------



## thiru

Yeah...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah...


He better be your damn favorite







. He was the only player to use nukes at high level in SC1 lol. Best micro ever.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Favorite players for each race, GO! :

Terran - SlayerS~Boxer 
Protoss - White-Ra
Zerg - FruitDealer


Terran-Boxer or MakaPrime 
Protoss-NexGenius or oGsInCa
Zerg-Fruitdealer

Keep in mind that I've only seen so many matches and these are the only names that pop in my head









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'll try this DT madness anyway, to see how fast I can get it out.


It ain't madness. Dts while they don't have health can do major damage if combined with your army. Point is zealots require minerals, dts require gas, so, they work together. Of course, some stalkers+sentries for FF/GS are a good idea to have for their abilities. I should mention that I've seen pros hide their dark shrine in the top left corner of the Xel'naga cavern map









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just think about how much money you'll waste of his forcing scans / turrets / ravens. Be sure to keep them separated or you deserve to lose







.


Yes, seperate is the key









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just FF. Honestly that's always the answer. I wish I had over stupid ramp blocks.

Anyway answer my favorite players question on the last page.


lol, I wish I did. Sentries are such a major player and used well can made an MMM easier to deal with









Edit: oops, forgot about boxer, lol, added before doom decides to kill me!


----------



## BigFan

Hilarious thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/932933297


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


It ain't madness. Dts while they don't have health can do major damage if combined with your army. Point is zealots require minerals, dts require gas, so, they work together. Of course, some stalkers+sentries for FF/GS are a good idea to have for their abilities. I should mention that I've seen pros hide their dark shrine in the top left corner of the Xel'naga cavern map










It's not their abilities I'm doubting, it's the timing. It's whether I can get them before a 3rax timing push, and whether it will be effective enough to make him think "I need detection before attacking" instead of "screw this I'm razing his base". It's whether I can make enough units to survive if it takes too long to tech.
SC2 is not just about counters and units stats and which unit wins in unit tester.


----------



## DoomDash

But FF.

Also if you can do those sick pylons that warp across ravines do that for two points of entry.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


It's not their abilities I'm doubting, it's the timing. It's whether I can get them before a 3rax timing push, and whether it will be effective enough to make him think "I need detection before attacking" instead of "screw this I'm razing his base". It's whether I can make enough units to survive if it takes too long to tech.
SC2 is not just about counters and units stats and which unit wins in unit tester.


Of course, if it was like that, then the game would be easier







All I was trying to say was that mixing them with your army can have great benefits if you can get them out fast enough


----------



## EliasAlucard

It feels great to say it, but Starcraft II is by far the best Blizzard comeback in more than a decade.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But FF.

Also if you can do those sick pylons that warp across ravines do that for two points of entry.


Are DTs invisible to the enemy when they warp in? that's the feeling I got from watching games but I'm not sure.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Are DTs invisible to the enemy when they warp in? that's the feeling I got from watching games but I'm not sure.


Don't think so, only after wraping in I think









Edit: 999 posts


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EliasAlucard*


It feels great to say it, but Starcraft II is by far the best Blizzard comeback in more than a decade.


Comeback? from what? they never failed. Warcraft 3, Starcraft and WoW still have millions of players and a pro gaming scene.


----------



## EliasAlucard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Comeback? from what? they never failed. Warcraft 3, Starcraft and WoW still have millions of players and a pro gaming scene.


They never failed, but they took like, 12 years to release a Starcraft sequel. And that in itself is sort of a failure.

The interesting question is if Diablo III will be a more impressive comeback than Starcraft II.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The thing is, I only have a problem (for now) with fast 3 rax pushes. I'm worried he'll just think "screw this" and attack anyway while waiting for a scan, and he'll probably win.


Same here. That fast MM push kills me as a zerg. You can't get your expo defensible quickly enough to stop it. It's even worse if Terran waits just a little longer and gets two tanks out.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EliasAlucard*


They never failed, but they took like, 12 years to release a Starcraft sequel. And that in itself is sort of a failure.

The interesting question is if Diablo III will be a more impressive comeback than Starcraft II.


Not really... they milked it for 12 years and it became a respected professional sport in a friggin country.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Same here. That fast MM push kills me as a zerg. You can't get your expo defensible quickly enough to stop it. It's even worse if Terran waits just a little longer and gets two tanks out.


I think Zerg has the easiest time with MM. Get banes faster. Banes > Marines, Speedlings > Marauders.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Are DTs invisible to the enemy when they warp in? that's the feeling I got from watching games but I'm not sure.


DTs are visible while warping in.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


DTs are visible while warping in.


lol
The reason I asked is I've seen more than 1 tournament game where a protoss will warp in a DT in plain sight of the enemy to defend against a drop or something and they don't bother killing it while it's warping it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *DoomDash*   I think Zerg has the easiest time with MM. Get banes faster. Banes > Marines, Speedlings > Marauders.  
Possibly, provided you can get a large enough amount, otherwise, T can just put marauders first to take the blows while the marines shred the slings and blings from behind with medivacs healing them from the splash









1000 post, hooray!









  
 You Tube  



 
 to celebrate and reflect upon what could've been, lol


----------



## ThumperSD

My personal fav:

Protoss: Huk, Tester
Zerg: Fruit Dealer
Terran: Morrow


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


My personal fav:

Protoss: Huk, Tester
Zerg: Fruit Dealer
Protoss: Morrow


huh? I guess you mean terran for Morrow, since, I know that Huk plays protoss, so, it's the only possibility


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Protoss: Morrow


He's the best.


----------



## Realcacheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


DTs are visible while warping in.


DTs are not visible (as in, able to be hit w/o detection) while warping in but you see the "cloaked" warping in animation.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrfzEO2yTe0 to celebrate and reflect upon what could've been, lol










Too bad Fruitdealer lost to FAKEboxer in the Ro16 =[


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He's the best.


fixed


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realcacheese*


DTs are not visible (as in, able to be hit w/o detection) while warping in but you see the "cloaked" warping in animation.


Ahhh that might explain things


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Too bad Fruitdealer lost to FAKEboxer in the Ro16 =[


Yes, which is why I said "to celebrate and reflect upon *what could've been*"


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realcacheese*


DTs are not visible (as in, able to be hit w/o detection) while warping in but you see the "cloaked" warping in animation.


Edit: i must retract my statement, i am incorrect.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, which is why I said "to celebrate and reflect upon *what could've been*"










On a more epic side of things, Real Boxer vs NaDa in the Ro8~!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah we are all waiting. You should sign up for the sc2 ranks division in thiru's sig yks.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah we are all waiting. You should sign up for the sc2 ranks division in thiru's sig yks.


I have my good sir.


----------



## EliasAlucard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Not really... they milked it for 12 years and it became a respected professional sport in a friggin country.


Well it's still a comeback either way because it took them 12 years. I'm glad they did though, because StarCraft II deserves nothing better than the latest technology treatment.

The only disappointment with StarCraft II is the useless video encoding (they could've packed the pre-rendered cinematic sequences with more bitrates, seriously), and this is also true for World of Warcraft (DivX5 can do better than that). It doesn't look all that bad on a 1024x768 resolution but the macroblocks look awful on 1080p.

That, and of course the removal of LAN support.


----------



## DoomDash

LAN, No quad core support, no SLI, bnet 2.0 currently ( lack of stats, chat channels, ect ) ect. Game is awesome, but far from perfect.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


LAN, No quad core support, no SLI, bnet 2.0 currently ( lack of stats, chat channels, ect ) ect. Game is awesome, but far from perfect.


LAN was definitely a let down and same with quad core support although, it was shown that i7 do better than Q6xxx, etc... series, double fps I think. As for bnet 2.0, not bad, but, again some features missing


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it's just lame that things that are pretty common Blizzard didn't support.


----------



## EliasAlucard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


LAN, No quad core support, no SLI, bnet 2.0 currently ( lack of stats, chat channels, ect ) ect. Game is awesome, but far from perfect.


Let's hope Blizzard rectifies these disappointments with patch updates. What are the odds Blizzard would do that?


----------



## yks

At Blizzcon this year they said Chat Channels and Shared Replay Viewing will be released either by December or early next year.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


At Blizzcon this year they said Chat Channels and Shared Replay Viewing will be released either by December or early next year.


Yeah, and stats. But still... no excuse if you ask me.


----------



## deanlewandowski

So playing today I realized something very important about the Bronze league-
90% of Terran players go 1 base MMM rush
90% of Protoss Players go 4 gate
90% of Zerg players go 6 pool

Now that I am playing to counter these strategies, I'm winning more games.
Maybe once I get to a higher league I will one day play a match that lasts more than six or seven minutes...


----------



## DoomDash

Let me play on your account for a day and I'll get you into Diamond







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


So playing today I realized something very important about the Bronze league-
90% of Terran players go 1 base MMM rush
90% of Protoss Players go 4 gate
90% of Zerg players go 6 pool

Now that I am playing to counter these strategies, I'm winning more games.
Maybe once I get to a higher league I will one day play a match that lasts more than six or seven minutes...










Pretty much. If you can take down MMM, 4 gate and defend against 6 pool, it's a free win







I'm sure you'll move to silver soon enough









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Let me play on your account for a day and I'll get you into Diamond







.


lol, doubt he needs the help. I've noticed his skills increasing the more we played together(2vs2, etc....)


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164923

I hope this does not happen.

*EDIT* also look at the poll
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164875


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164923

I hope this does not happen.

*EDIT* also look at the poll
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164875


Boxer must not go RDM! T has been getting a lot of direct nerfs lately though. And P has been getting a lot of indirect nerfs T_T. Damn Zergs and their metagame


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


So playing today I realized something very important about the Bronze league-
90% of Terran players go 1 base MMM rush
90% of Protoss Players go 4 gate
90% of Zerg players go 6 pool

Now that I am playing to counter these strategies, I'm winning more games.
Maybe once I get to a higher league I will one day play a match that lasts more than six or seven minutes...










That's a standard opening for Terran. That or two barracks and one factory. (Or 1-1-1, but that's less common as far as I know.) It's just what we do. The thing you have to look out for is the really fast push with reactors and stuff near the beginning.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think Zerg has the easiest time with MM. Get banes faster. Banes > Marines, Speedlings > Marauders.


What do you do if you prepare for an MMM push and get banshees instead? I've had that happen early enough that I couldn't have scouted it. It's gg if they kill your queens and then go to your mineral line and you have no air defense. The fundamental problem for Zerg is you have no scouting and no air defense for the vital first stage of the game. If you want to be prepared for anything you have to tech to lair/hydras AND expand at the same time. That's an awful situation. It leaves Zerg wide open for a few minutes. Terran runs a scan, sees I'm teching and expanding, then the Terran wall opens up and out comes the attack wave and I'm dead before long. Zerg has a simliar choice vs. P - will it be early void ray push or early stalker/sentry/zealot push? Guess wrong and die. I'm about ready to quit Zerg because I hate playing these stupid guessing games. There's too much luck involved. You're forced into playing very brittle strategies that fall apart if you pick the wrong one.


----------



## DoomDash

You sack an overlord. Its super common. Also you can do bane/ling and get lair tech for overseers / an extra queen. If you are worried about banshee get a 3rd queen, for creep spread, transfusion, ect. Queens are decent against banshee, esp if you have an extra with trans.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You sack an overlord. Its super common. Also you can do bane/ling and get lair tech for overseers / an extra queen. If you are worried about banshee get a 3rd queen, for creep spread, transfusion, ect. Queens are decent against banshee, esp if you have an extra with trans.


I sac plently of overlords for scouting purposes after I get the speed upgrade for them. What bugs me is without the upgrade they're so slow that they can't get to the enemy base fast enough to scout early pushes unless the enemy base is right next to yours. You need lair tech to enable the upgrade, which means you're back in the situation of having to expand and tech at the same time. Terran sees you doing that, you die if he has been building marines and marauders and wants a quick game. You might have enough banelings to survive the first wave, but the 2nd or 3rd wave will get you.


----------



## DoomDash

You should:

A) Keep a ling outside his base / ramp to see if is coming.

B) Keep a ling at important watch towers.

If he starts coming, its easy to make enough to deal with it ( throw down spines ~, and cut drone / tech production ~ ). Zerg is a reactionary race, and believe me they are called that for a reason.

None of the Z's I play wait for OL speed for the sack.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just lol...


----------



## jprovido

hi im a protoss player and i'm having a hard time beating diamond terran players. once they go MMMG and little by little push my base with siege thanks I can't do much at all. how can I counter this? HT get's pawned by ghost emp's


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


hi im a protoss player and i'm having a hard time beating diamond terran players. once they go MMMG and little by little push my base with siege thanks I can't do much at all. how can I counter this? HT get's pawned by ghost emp's


When I played against some sick protoss players ( 2000+ ), they would hide their templars in a warp prism that was set to follow their troops. They would then drop them down one at a time to storm / eat emps. They also usually had some spread out in their army as well. Also, they would take the warp prism around ( it was LT that I recall the best ) LT, and put the templars on the high ground to feedback snipe ghosts. But, Colossus and Templars work wonders together. As the last page said, you probably want to go Colossus first, and get HT later.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Macro better + drops

siege tanking marines are my favourite type to face in PvT. So far I've always been able to macro enough imortals and units to stop them from taking their third while getting mine. I also do a lot of drops in their natural or main base to either snipe out the natural cc with dt's or come in with blink stalkers. Yes sometimes leap frogging siege tanks gives me trouble, however if you scout well enough, it means before they can set up you rush in and intercept them. That usually gives me a victory in the mini battle. If not just be calm and keep on macroing, or start dropping and counter harassing.

There are a few different ways, it depend on how you want to play the game. Bottom line is still get the core mechanics and macro better. Scout them so you'll always have just enough to counter their numbers.


----------



## thiru

Oh maaannn I just played a dozen 3v3s and 4v4s in which I teched to high templar every time and it is freaking epic








It's so effective in team games not only because you can tech relatively safely (well I can still defend myself since I start with 2->4gate) if your allies don't, but damn they're so friggin deadly because bigger armies can't move out of the way fast enough









With 8 high templars you can kill everything they can throw at you. And at our level (platinum/low diamond team league) they don't use ghosts in team games.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You should:

A) Keep a ling outside his base / ramp to see if is coming.

B) Keep a ling at important watch towers.

If he starts coming, its easy to make enough to deal with it ( throw down spines ~, and cut drone / tech production ~ ). *Zerg is a reactionary race, and believe me they are called that for a reason.*

None of the Z's I play wait for OL speed for the sack.


Another tip is to count the front. Counting the front can be just as good as seeing the buildings.

For example, if you send a ling or two up his ramp and see marines only and no marauders, chances are it's a tech build. Which most likely leaves you with two options, mech-play or banshee.

if you do see marauders, that means he's teching slower, which gives you more time to prepare.

Day9 says to always count the front.


----------



## DoomDash

BTW I just lost to a Terran player who went command center first. To be completely honest I had no idea how to deal with it.


----------



## thiru

... lol?

I'm guessing you didn't see any buildings so you thought cheese and you stayed in your base while looking for the proxy rax?


----------



## DoomDash

I kept scouting his base looking for a barracks. I've seen people hide their barracks in their base in a corner to make it seem like they were proxying. By the time my 3 marines got there he had a bunker up. I was kind of confused so I just threw down more racks, and slightly teched while doing so. I def should have done something like reapers or banshee faster. I also took his nat to prevent him from flying there, but he was content just muling and producing SCVs from it. He told me its his standard, and it gives a nice slight econ advantage.

He was about 1800+ Diamond.


----------



## this n00b again

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BTW I just lost to a Terran player who went command center first. To be completely honest I had no idea how to deal with it.


lol i just finished playing... and for some reason i saw this on the front page of ocn.

lol i think that was me









i did just play a few games doing a fast expand


----------



## DoomDash

What's your SN? And wouldn't you remember mine? You should post in here more if thats you.


----------



## DoomDash

This is why I love whitera

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


hi im a protoss player and i'm having a hard time beating diamond terran players. once they go MMMG and little by little push my base with siege thanks I can't do much at all. how can I counter this? HT get's pawned by ghost emp's


Assuming you have solid macro. I suggest doing some Robo-esque build, instead of HT first. There are a lot of variations you can choose from. I find myself either doing 1-Gate, Robo, into 2nd gate OR if it's a large map and we are Cross-Positions, I may 3-Gate, Expand into Robo-tech.

As for MMM*G*+Tank, I haven't really faced that. That's too gas-intensive for the Terran, so he'll need to be on 3-fully sat. bases just to support all that. So that's late game, but you can definitely win before then.

If you pressure enough (or threaten enough) to FORCE 2-base play, some common builds you'll likely see: MMM+Viking, Marine+Tank+Raven, or MMMG. So you can prepare for that however you see fit.

But if you can't end it and it does get to late game, (for example the MMMG+Tank, you're having trouble with) Collosi + HT is just too deadly, in-fact, blizz is currently looking into Storm because of how good it is (although not as good as the BW version)

But again, this is assuming your fundamentals and mechanics are strong. You should evaluate that before thinking of your opponents ability.


----------



## DoomDash

Blizzard said storm and stimmed marauders.. yes. yks I like your posts, rep. I totally agree with the MMG+Tank being too gas heavy. That just won't happen until late game.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This is why I love whitera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShaAawYxPCQ


=D Warp-Prisms definitely need to be used more.

Speaking of PvP, how do they put the last 2 Protoss against each other in Ro16 =[

Now the Ro8 is 1P, 4Z, 3T in GSL 2. =[ Maybe NEXGenius can pull off a Fruitdealer, being the only one of his race =D


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *DoomDash*   This is why I love whitera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShaAawYxPCQ  
If you like that, you will love this.. similar strats but I really like Kiwi's micro in this

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


If you like that, you will love this.. similar strats but I really like Kiwi's micro in this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31KV_IKwbGA


Yeah, I actually had post this a few seconds ago on SCArena:

Quote:



I love this build. It reminds me of kiwikak's build vs idrA at IEM. I think Warp Prisms are the under appreciated unit in this game so far, and I mean that.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yo dash, what is the timing for a cloak banshee harass if terran goes 111? 8 min?

Ive been watching Nexgenius replays and noticed he stops making probes a lot after the 5 min mark even when he can afford to make them. Strangely, he uses the exact same hotkeys as me. I havent seen any pro use my hotkey settings yet lol.


----------



## yks

MSI's Master Cup Today and Tomorrow! Games should start around 12pm PST

Commentators: Day[9] & djWHEAT
Schedule: http://www.gosugamers.net/general/ne...wheat-and-1000
Stream (i think): http://www.ustream.tv/channel/djwheat

AllAboutYou - #1 on US Ladder, #5 Worldwide
HuK - Does he really need a summary? HUK-NORRIS!
TorCH - GSL 1 Qualifier, made it to Ro32
LzGamer - Team EG member
KiwiKaki - 2nd MLG Raleigh/4th MLG DC
Axslav - ex WC3 Pro, #1 2v2 with StrifeCro (also WC3 player)

Sorry, I don't have much info on the other players, but I feel like I should, especially drewbie, but I can't recall at the moment. Maybe it's too early for me; its 9am forgive me.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Holy crap, I go to bed and the next day there's a thousand posts >_>


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
MSI's Master Cup Today and Tomorrow! Games should start around 12pm PST

Commentators: Day[9] & djWHEAT
Schedule: http://www.gosugamers.net/general/ne...wheat-and-1000
Stream (i think): http://www.ustream.tv/channel/djwheat

AllAboutYou - #1 on US Ladder, #5 Worldwide
HuK - Does he really need a summary? HUK-NORRIS!
TorCH - GSL 1 Qualifier, made it to Ro32
LzGamer - Team EG member
KiwiKaki - 2nd MLG Raleigh/4th MLG DC
Axslav - ex WC3 Pro, #1 2v2 with StrifeCro (also WC3 player)

Sorry, I don't have much info on the other players, but I feel like I should, especially drewbie, but I can't recall at the moment. Maybe it's too early for me; its 9am forgive me.

wooot


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yo dash, what is the timing for a cloak banshee harass if terran goes 111? 8 min?

Not sure TBH.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yo dash, what is the timing for a cloak banshee harass if terran goes 111? 8 min?

Just loaded up a build order tester and tried it out - skipped Orbital until the banshee and cloak were in production, constantly pumped SCVs, didn't get supply blocked.

~5 min: Starport finishes and floats to pre-made Tech Lab, starts Banshee + Cloak
~6 min: First Banshee finishes
~7 min: Cloak finishes, second Banshee a few seconds later

Exact times were 5:08, 6:08, 7:00 and 7:08, luls. I had exactly enough minerals and gas for the banshee + cloak, so I'm pretty sure that's more or less as fast as someone would be able to do it.

Obviously it'll be slower if he makes any units at all, so 7:30-8:00 is probably a good benchmark. Here's the replay for ****s and giggles:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9168698/Fast...shee.SC2Replay

Edit: I spawned Random like a champion, so it took me a second to figure out how to reload as Terran. The build order on the match screen probably isn't timed correctly.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164923

I hope this does not happen.

*EDIT* also look at the poll
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=164875

hmm, don't think he'll do it. Only reason I say that is because I doubt Blizzard will nerf T anymore. They mostly nerfed reaper due to how strong they are in 2vs2 games and the supply depot before barracks was a part of that although I don't agree with it







As for the poll, lol, it's almost exactly 50% in Boxer's favor(3 votes more), so, it's gonna be an interesting match









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
What do you do if you prepare for an MMM push and get banshees instead? I've had that happen early enough that I couldn't have scouted it. It's gg if they kill your queens and then go to your mineral line and you have no air defense. The fundamental problem for Zerg is you have no scouting and no air defense for the vital first stage of the game. If you want to be prepared for anything you have to tech to lair/hydras AND expand at the same time. That's an awful situation. It leaves Zerg wide open for a few minutes. Terran runs a scan, sees I'm teching and expanding, then the Terran wall opens up and out comes the attack wave and I'm dead before long. Zerg has a simliar choice vs. P - will it be early void ray push or early stalker/sentry/zealot push? Guess wrong and die. I'm about ready to quit Zerg because I hate playing these stupid guessing games. There's too much luck involved. You're forced into playing very brittle strategies that fall apart if you pick the wrong one.

I've been attack by banshees before when I had no AA. If I see one coming, I quickly get a chamber down, an overseer if you have a lair and make some spores around minerals and drones. Most opponents go for drones or queen, very rarely do they go for the spores, so, you'll suffer a bit before getting rid of the banshee









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You should:

A) Keep a ling outside his base / ramp to see if is coming.

B) Keep a ling at important watch towers.

If he starts coming, its easy to make enough to deal with it ( throw down spines ~, and cut drone / tech production ~ ). Zerg is a reactionary race, and believe me they are called that for a reason.

None of the Z's I play wait for OL speed for the sack.

Pretty much true, although, I have yet to use OLs. Sometimes just walking a sling up to their ramp gives plenty of info on what they are doing









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Another tip is to count the front. Counting the front can be just as good as seeing the buildings.

For example, if you send a ling or two up his ramp and see marines only and no marauders, chances are it's a tech build. Which most likely leaves you with two options, mech-play or banshee.

if you do see marauders, that means he's teching slower, which gives you more time to prepare.

Day9 says to always count the front.

Interesting idea, although, I disagree, just because he has some marauders doesn't mean that he isn't building a factory or a starport to try a drop, etc....









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
When I played against some sick protoss players ( 2000+ ), they would hide their templars in a warp prism that was set to follow their troops. They would then drop them down one at a time to storm / eat emps. They also usually had some spread out in their army as well. Also, they would take the warp prism around ( it was LT that I recall the best ) LT, and put the templars on the high ground to feedback snipe ghosts. But, Colossus and Templars work wonders together. As the last page said, you probably want to go Colossus first, and get HT later.

Smart idea, makes me wonder if the ht's still lose their energy if emp is used while they are in the warp prism.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You sack an overlord. Its super common. Also you can do bane/ling and get lair tech for overseers / an extra queen. If you are worried about banshee get a 3rd queen, for creep spread, transfusion, ect. Queens are decent against banshee, esp if you have an extra with trans.

1vs1, a queen loses to a banshee but 2 with transfuse probably win against 2 banshee if you focus fire









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BTW I just lost to a Terran player who went command center first. To be completely honest I had no idea how to deal with it.

Are you saying he just expanded early or am I missing something?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Holy crap, I go to bed and the next day there's a thousand posts >_>

lol, my thoughts alike


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Smart idea, makes me wonder if the ht's still lose their energy if emp is used while they are in the warp prism.
*They do not.*

Are you saying he just expanded early or am I missing something?








*Read my second post on that topic. BTW I did this today on huggle and it worked!*


----------



## DoomDash

OK, so I normally don't QQ, and I tell people not to QQ, but here goes my little QQ rant. Flame away:

The baneling is completely game breaking, specifically for TvZ. It is far too effective in the mid-to-late game against almost every Terran build, especially because bio is almost always required. The speed banelings require very little thought or micro compared to how much that would be or is required for the Terran player, and at the late game stage a unit that is 50/25 is incredibly easy to come buy and replace.

What do I want? Something completely unrealistic. I want the lurker to be brought back in its spot. It would fill the same role, as well as providing much more interesting and intelligent roles as well. Lurkers were far more dependent on unit placement, and they were a worth the risk only if used properly. Banelings are practically a no-risk unit. Losing something like a baneling has very little impact compared to losing something as expensive as a lurker. This creates better games!

Anyway, that's all.

Pretty cool that even a 1400+ Diamond Z agrees with me:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...2933729?page=1


----------



## Tchernobyl

I've been saying it all along!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Just loaded up a build order tester and tried it out - skipped Orbital until the banshee and cloak were in production, constantly pumped SCVs, didn't get supply blocked.

~5 min: Starport finishes and floats to pre-made Tech Lab, starts Banshee + Cloak
~6 min: First Banshee finishes
~7 min: Cloak finishes, second Banshee a few seconds later

Exact times were 5:08, 6:08, 7:00 and 7:08, luls. I had exactly enough minerals and gas for the banshee + cloak, so I'm pretty sure that's more or less as fast as someone would be able to do it.

Obviously it'll be slower if he makes any units at all, so 7:30-8:00 is probably a good benchmark. Here's the replay for ****s and giggles:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9168698/Fast...shee.SC2Replay

Edit: I spawned Random like a champion, so it took me a second to figure out how to reload as Terran. The build order on the match screen probably isn't timed correctly.


Thanks. Im trying to get all of these timings down and when to expect for them so I can be better prepared. Id say 8+ mins is more realistic because it would be pretty dumb if the terran does not make any units before his banshee tech.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK, so I normally don't QQ, and I tell people not to QQ, but here goes my little QQ rant. Flame away:

The baneling is completely game breaking, specifically for TvZ. It is far too effective in the mid-to-late game against almost every Terran build, especially because bio is almost always required. The speed banelings require very little thought or micro compared to how much that would be or is required for the Terran player, and at the late game stage a unit that is 50/25 is incredibly easy to come buy and replace.

What do I want? Something completely unrealistic. I want the lurker to be brought back in its spot. It would fill the same role, as well as providing much more interesting and intelligent roles as well. Lurkers were far more dependent on unit placement, and they were a worth the risk only if used properly. Banelings are practically a no-risk unit. Losing something like a baneling has very little impact compared to losing something as expensive as a lurker. This creates better games!

Anyway, that's all.

Pretty cool that even a 1400+ Diamond Z agrees with me:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...2933729?page=1


I think a slight baneling and muta nerf is on the way... what do you think about fungal growth?

I havent played zerg for a while so I cant really comment too much on it but from the games i've seen it does seem a bit OP. Terran bio is pretty ineffective against a good zerg player. If terran goes mech, it will allow the zerg a lot of time to get expos and their tech up where they can just out produce terran. Banelings and fungal growth is almost exclusively used against terran and zerg only and not protoss.

Well at least zerg players dont have to suffer any more









I think blizz should try to balance each race by making them as effective as the other two races during each phase of the game (early/mid/late game) instead of each race being more dominant during a particular phase


----------



## DoomDash

FG is also good, kinda why they don't really need banelings to be so effective. Then pair FG with banelings and you can't even micro anymore. That's silly.


----------



## Tchernobyl

But it requires micro to stop the enemy micro in the first place! And with good enough macro, banelings can be avoided (admittedly that's harder with upgraded speed but still)... and mutas nerfed? what in the hell would be nerfed there? o_o


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think mutas are the problem. It's pretty much banelings being able to easily take out any real mobile solution to mutas, aka marines. It's just so much easier to micro for Z at the point of speed banelings and even easier with infestors included. You cannot micro as Terran with FG, and some how it would require ghosts to counter Infestors... but Terran can't afford ghosts, thors, tanks, and mmm. Zerg also just has better macro mechanics in general.


----------



## Tchernobyl

I thought the answer to mutas was thors... which take a ton of banelings to kill >_> build more thors!


----------



## ThumperSD

Magic box mutas > thors especially when you can outproduce them. Day9 said something about nerfing mutas too. I think it's coming but I dont really care too much as I dont really play zerg any more.


----------



## Tchernobyl

mutas are still fairly expensive and have an absolutely horrifying range... Damage isn't really all that high too. What in the hell would they nerf? There's nothing TO nerf without making the unit worthless.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


mutas are still fairly expensive and have an absolutely horrifying range... Damage isn't really all that high too. What in the hell would they nerf? There's nothing TO nerf without making the unit worthless.


The splash. The one on one damage is fine.

Imagine having 30+ mutas flying around the map running back and forth between your bases killing your workers in a couple seconds. Thors are too slow to go back and forth. Youd have to throw up 15+ turrets at each base to even have any type of resistance. There's some other things too that Day9 mentioned but I cant remember.

Again, all nerfs should be done in SLIGHT amounts. The last thing I want is for a unit to be useless in the game (reaper).


----------



## DoomDash

Do you happen to know what episode that was of day9? Yeah Thors are fine vs Muta... when you can catch them.

I might start getting the armor upgrade at the EB when I see muta.


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't think mutas are the problem. They could probably nerf muta/ling play indirectly though. Maybe nerf spine crawlers or something.

Mutas are quite weak in the battle. If zerg has 30 of them you've most likely just got outmacroed.


----------



## DoomDash

Banelings are all I care about.


----------



## Tchernobyl

The splash is practically the signature move of the muta.. for that matter it's not a splash, but a bounce. And any upgrade to the muta attack, from what I've read, is only for the initial damage. So with enough armor (i think thor was an example), a 3/0 muta's third damage does 0 damage to the thor it hits, if it's 0/3. Or something like that. Only the finitial damage is increased >


----------



## DoomDash

I thought I'd share a replay of a pretty cool TvP push I do these days, which I really planned around 250 MM cannons. I know I played some of you with this ( I think ), and it's rather sick.


----------



## poroboszcz

Another silly one base play from terran









Looks pretty strong. I think if protoss had better army composition it would be much closer though. Why did he build so many sentries, seeing exactly what you're doing?


----------



## DoomDash

I also caught him with his pants down expanding. I posted a thread on scarena with more of my thoughts on the game / build.

http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0

And it's one base play but only until your 2 thors are out. I like to feel safe before I expand, instead of doing it blindly. Read my thoughts on expanding in that thread.


----------



## DoomDash

omg djwheat and day9 just owned some people including myself for the eg masters cup. the finals of the main tournament over but there was a match between huk and idra for a laptop. Right before it was about to start the stream went down. When it came back up they were talking about game one where huk base exchanged won with a mothership rush, and if idras nydus would have came out quicker it oculd have been different. Of course they were kidding and they havent even started yet.


----------



## poroboszcz

That last game was was really embarrassing for HuK.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I also caught him with his pants down expanding. I posted a thread on scarena with more of my thoughts on the game / build.

http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0

And it's one base play but only until your 2 thors are out. I like to feel safe before I expand, instead of doing it blindly. Read my thoughts on expanding in that thread.

Funny how there is a diamond player who thinks the protoss lost because he made too many probes. I bet if he pulled 10 of them off the minerals to help his army they would be more effective than the 6 sentries he made. I'm also pretty sure that I would fast expand as soon as I would saw the bunker at the top of your ramp.


----------



## DoomDash

I think a fast expand is pretty dangerous vs this. Oktoberfest would always wait until he was safe as well, and for good reason ( because when he didn't I won ).

He obviously had too much gas ( which is why he made sentry )... if anything he should have pulled probes off gas and built some more gateways.

*edit* but I don't know, maybe FE would work. Not enough exp, but it's hard to imagine enough because the build is some what fast.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdwr_...layer_embedded

Not enough people commented on this







.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Not enough people commented on this







.

I see your Chippendales and raise you trumpets:


You Tube





http://trumpetdance.ytmnd.com


----------



## BigFan

I had a reply all written up to some of the comments here but since it was deleted due to tokin expiry and I don't feel like writing it all, I'll make my comments rather short.

@DoomDash Saw that video of WhiteRa, very nice. I like the idea of using wrap prism, can't wait to start exploring it myself







For the cc, I re-read your post and all I got was that he built one, this time in his base and was using mules+SCV to further his eco. Am I missing something?







Finally, I don't think banes are much of a problem provided you spread your units. I read that NaDa played a game against a zerg who used banes, but, his unit spread allowed him to minimize unit loss, maybe do something similar? Plus, putting marauders infront will minimize marine loss since marauders are armored and banes do only 20 damage to them. Alternatively, you can sacrifice a marine to get the opponent to lose several banes. TBH, not sure about the whole subject of banes. They've saved me so many times from an early loss due to MMM and you lose the unit either way, so, it's not like they wipe MMM ball and then you can proceed with them to your opponent's base to wipe him out









@Tchernobyl Agree with everything you said. Mutas are great units, but, have horrible range and if they are nerfed in anyway, then they WILL become useless. Their speed and bounce is all that is working in their favour, otherwise, those 100/100 could be spent on something else, but, since, they are harass units, their features fit the profile. I don't think blizzard will nerf mutas in anyway, it'll just be a bad idea although, as for banes, not really sure.


----------



## EmMure

screw zerg i went back to toss lol and im undefeated since i swtichd back,i made some terran **** his pants when he let me build and tech 44 void rays LOL


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Do you happen to know what episode that was of day9? Yeah Thors are fine vs Muta... when you can catch them.

I might start getting the armor upgrade at the EB when I see muta.

Dont remember


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
screw zerg i went back to toss lol and im undefeated since i swtichd back,i made some terran **** his pants when he let me build and tech 44 void rays LOL

lol, I'm playing to start playing random, so, that I can explore some of the other races and use different strategies(wrap prisms, ghosts+nuke, thors, colossi, etc....), however, I'll always like zerg due to their ability to swarm their opponent


----------



## DoomDash

I play all 3 races in casuals / 2v2's.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I play all 3 races in casuals / 2v2's.

It's still not the same as playing them on 1vs1 though since it's rather competitive which is why I'm staying as zerg for 1vs1 for now while I practice T and P in custom games, 2vs2 games, etc.... Once I get all the different abilites for T and P down well and understand their game style, I'll make the change, so, that I don't drive my record into the ground just yet, lol








Just had another interesting custom game against a Plat Z. He was playing with Terran though, lol, but, his build was rather interesting. I did make a lot of mistakes such as stopped spreading creep after a while, same with spawn larvae. I also had some issues with saturation of my bases, but, it's somewhat of an improvement over previous games








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...elnaga-caverns

Used a couple of new things myself:
- Sacked an OL to scout for the first time and I would've seen more of the base if it had some speed instead of being as slow as a snail








- Used infestors for the first time and tried FG and I like what I see








- Went for a couple of expansions, probably the most I've ever went in a game, although, they weren't all saturated at the same time







Add on that we were pretty much on even bases throughout the match, but, his knowledge of the terran race was probably his undoing.
- Did some good pressure throughout the game, won't say much to the method though









I won't spoil anymore, but, this game is a MUST WATCH for anyone interested in some giggles and just some epic battles. It's rather long(50min) and can be slow paced sometimes, but, you can move faster during the expansion periods and the start, etc.... although, I think watching how everything develops from both sides is what makes replays quite valuable


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
I see your Chippendales and raise you trumpets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkzl0zHIE2k

http://trumpetdance.ytmnd.com

haha +rep, this was recent.

Brought to you by the Number J, haha. Day[J] if you guys remember that episode.


----------



## EmMure

they really need to fix mm its pretty ******ed


----------



## ThumperSD

I think marines are fine but marauders need a slight nerf to 17-18 dmg to armored units


----------



## DoomDash

They are looking at stim. I don't see it though.


----------



## EmMure

its not even stim its the fact that he can rebuild his whole marine set quickly and cheaply compared to me having to build colus or even dt's


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss have much better replacement mechanics. Sounds like you are just getting out played. Sure Colossus are slow to come out, but with good reason.


----------



## NorCa

OMG what a game, Boxer vs KyrixZenith... if you missed that kill yourself !


----------



## DoomDash

I know.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


They are looking at stim. I don't see it though.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


its not even stim its the fact that he can rebuild his whole marine set quickly and cheaply compared to me having to build colus or even dt's


Personally, don't think stim is the problem, but, the fact that you can easily make another MMM ball and continue attacking your opponent after the first attack failed eventually wiping them out if they haven't teched enough while repelling it. Example is if you are zerg, you can keep on pumping out slings and make blings to use however 1 bling costs 50/25(25/25 for morphing) and with stim, a MMM ball can easily kite them, since, you'll only have so many of them by the time the second round starts. Terrans keep talking about how zerg has it easy(not the best term) with having a hatchery since we can produce a ton of units at once. It's partially true, since, I can produce 22 ultras at once if I have 11 larvae saved on 2 hatcheries. The problem is first, the costs involved and second, is the fact that if my hatchery is taken out, then it's pretty much GG unless I have the money to replace it and have some army left that can help defend it. Most Ts nowadays build 5-6 barracks and just keep on pumping out marines+marauders which makes it quite easy to keep up with my production. My T opponent last night had 4-5 barracks in his base with reactors+tech labs and then build another 5 in his exp after I took most of those down. Even though it costs 750 minerals for those 5 barracks compared to only costs 350(300+50 drone cost) for my hatchery, they have the peace of mind that if 2-3 barracks are taken out, they can at least use the other remaining 2 to keep production of units while if the enemy attacks and kills my hatchery, my production is stopped completely until it is rebuilt, not to mention that if they take out the pool or roach warren, hydralisk den, etc.... that I can't produce the unit anymore(T has it somewhat similar except marines, hellions, vikings can be built without any attachments, structures, etc.... other than the actual production structure)

TL;DR Having a hatchery is great, but, with most T having 5-6 barracks, they are able to keep up in production with Z as well as queue up units and have a peace of mind that if a barrack or two fall, they can still produce units while they rebuilt unlike when a hatchery goes down. MMM is also pretty powerful and you can remake a force rather quickly with reactors used. It's made deadlier with stim and a player who knows how to micro well









As for your complaint EmMure, well a colossus is tier 3, marine is tier 1, so, it kinda makes sense how they can pump out so quick especially if they have a reactor(kinda makes sense why zerg has a queen now). Just make a lot of zealots and use FF to prevent marauders+marines from kiting them. Of course, storm is very handy against MMM ball as well as dts if you can mix them in with your army. Don't forget about upgrades to armor as well









Quote:



Originally Posted by *NorCa*


OMG what a game, Boxer vs KyrixZenith... if you missed that kill yourself !


lol, I didn't watch it yet and probably won't for a while. Talk about taking things to the next level


----------



## yks

Ro8's Day 1 Results

Fake Boxer won 3-2! Yeeee. Props to Kyrix tho, Tastetosis was talking a lot of trash about him when he pulled the super upset on HongUnPrime. He showed them!

NEXGenius Lost! =[ I voted for ITR on the LiquiBet, cause statistically he was the right choice. But I still secretly wanted Genius to win. ITR aka HopeTorture won 3-1


----------



## BigFan

I haven't read the above reply, although, I did catch the first couple of words and quickly scrolled away. There are still some here including me trying to catch up on the GSL, so, please use spoilers in the meantime


----------



## yks

I am sorry BigFan! I will edit the post right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I am sorry BigFan! I will edit the post right now.


It's np, I know you are excited, who isn't?







If the stream wasn't at 6 in the morning or so, I would've tried to watch it live to keep up like I did when they had some games at blizzcon or at MLG


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I think marines are fine but marauders need a slight nerf to 17-18 dmg to armored units



Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


its not even stim its the fact that he can rebuild his whole marine set quickly and cheaply compared to me having to build colus or even dt's


You're comparing Tier 1 units to Tier 3 Units. Of course Colossi are going to build slower and cost more, they're TIER 3!

Now that people are used to dealing with an *early* MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.

But Protoss Tier 1 versus Terran Tier 1, it's all about positioning. The reason why Blizzard is looking into Stimmed Marauders and HT Storm is because those abilities allow for greater positioning.

It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.


----------



## poroboszcz

Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos

The fake boxer is pretty damn good. Apparently it takes nothing but marines to win against muta/ling play









Edit: So it looks like there's gonna be Fake Boxer vs ITR and Boxer/Nada against zerg in the semis. Boxer vs Fake Boxer finals would be epic!


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos


+Rep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You're comparing Tier 1 units to Tier 3 Units. Of course Colossi are going to build slower and cost more, they're TIER 3!

Now that people are used to dealing with an *early* MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.

But Protoss Tier 1 versus Terran Tier 1, it's all about positioning. The reason why Blizzard is looking into Stimmed Marauders and HT Storm is because those abilities allow for greater positioning.

It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.


I wouldn't say it's easy, but, it's not as bad as I used to think it was. Of course, you will still need a pretty large army and to target the marines with banes if you are Z in order to succeed, otherwise, marauders will take the damage. Personally, I make sure that I have a lot of units ready(slings+blings), so, that I can take down the MM ball easy otherwise I risk losing the game so early. As for P, you will have to split up their force using FF otherwise, you'll be overwhelmed due to the high dps and concussive shells. Anyways, I think using MMG is much harder for P than Z, since, EMP takes out all shields for P meaning 1/2 the hp is gone in some cases which makes it easier to take down a large P force. Most pros try to take down the ghost first if they are playing P because of EMP. Marauders already do amazing amount of damage for their counter(armored +20) compared to the constant 16 for roaches and 11(armored +15) for stalkers. Stim makes them that much hard to counter and with medivacs, it only becomes worse. Storm is powerful against MMM due to their packing, so, it's possible that blizzard might change how MM cluster to make them have some space reducing the effects of banes and storm's efficiency. Personally, I think marauders are fine the way they are, not sure about stim, that's up to blizzard. I just hope that if they do nerf banes, they don't make them a useful unit, although, at the moment, if you can catch your T enemy offguard, you can take his group of marines down with some banes pretty easy which I just did in my last game against a T









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos


Thanks for the link. +REP







Although, I would use spoilers for the results of the latest matches


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Now that people are used to dealing with an *early* MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.


5 rax + ghosts off one base? With stim, conc shells and marine shields? Have a replay maybe?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I wouldn't say it's easy, but, it's not as bad as I used to think it was. Of course, you will still need a pretty large army and to target the marines with banes if you are Z in order to succeed, otherwise, marauders will take the damage. Personally, I make sure that I have a lot of units ready(slings+blings), so, that I can take down the MM ball easy otherwise I risk losing the game so early. As for P, you will have to split up their force using FF otherwise, you'll be overwhelmed due to the high dps and concussive shells. Anyways, I think using MMG is much harder for P than Z, since, EMP takes out all shields for P meaning 1/2 the hp is gone in some cases which makes it easier to take down a large P force. Most pros try to take down the ghost first if they are playing P because of EMP. Marauders already do amazing amount of damage for their counter(armored +20) compared to the constant 16 for roaches and 11(armored +15) for stalkers. Stim makes them that much hard to counter and with medivacs, it only becomes worse. Storm is powerful against MMM due to their packing, so, it's possible that blizzard might change how MM cluster to make them have some space reducing the effects of banes and storm's efficiency. Personally, I think marauders are fine the way they are, not sure about stim, that's up to blizzard. I just hope that if they do nerf banes, they don't make them a useful unit, although, at the moment, if you can catch your T enemy offguard, you can take his group of marines down with some banes pretty easy which I just did in my last game against a T










I was going to say it a couple of times already, but you should seriously work on your text formatting skills. No offense, but you'll make everyone's life easier. Reading through your posts is really painful.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Logging into SC2 right now and nothing happens...
I put in password and it goes to the next screen, but does not present me with my username and profile picture like it usually does.
Have exited out of game and restarted computer several times.
Any suggestions???


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


5 rax + ghosts off one base? With stim, conc shells and marine shields? Have a replay maybe?


Not off 1 base. I apologize for the lack of clarity; I just didn't want a wall of text for a tl;dr trying to explain a BO. What I meant with "expand into medivacs" was to emphasize how you're not rushing into medivacs. You set up your economy for 5rax and you throw in medivacs when you can support it. But your focus is early 5 rax play.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont think stim is the problem. Stim takes some practice as a smart player can bait a terran player into stimming for no reason. The price of con shells is the bigger problem. 50/50? HAH

Im liking the void ray nerf though. Seems a lot more balanced now without making them useless.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.


I stongly disagree. A lot of times during early pushes the MM doesnt even have stim before con shells. The damage to armored units is ridiculous. The damage to non-armored units are fine but marauders wreck armored units WAY TOO F'ING FAST whether you have a concave or not. You will have to sandwich the MM to gain positioning advantage but placing your forces at different locations is risky.


----------



## Tchernobyl

It's a combination of everything, really. It has high HP for an early tier unit, does *twice* its normal damage against armored, can be stimmed, gets a passive upgrade which is insanely strong (50% movement speed debuff for 50/50... nullifies any other movement speed upgrade that are often more expensive. I'm looking at you, banelings). Only costs 2 supply, and is 100 crystal and a measly 25 gas.

Part of the problem, on top of all these strengths, is how easy it is to replenish their numbers. Oh, your MM got taken down by something (but you took down 50% of their force)? Here, have some more marauders coming right behind!

The effectiveness against t2 and t3 units on top of the high replenishment rate kinda makes it a target for nerf cries, and i figure, actual nerfs in the future.


----------



## DoomDash

Terran needs Marauders to be that powerful because their later tier units are easily counterable comparative to units like Protoss'. I don't think we will see Marauders being touched beyond maybe a slight stim nerf, because they are *needed* as powerful as they are now. They are good, but even tier 1 units are pretty cost effective vs them ( marines are decent, speedlings are REALLY good w/ surround ). Best that they are cheap for how powerful they are, but they are no where near as well rounded as a stalker, and no where near as easy to replace as a roach ect.

Just remember while at least Protoss players are on these nice amazingly powerful tier 3 units Terran is still kinda stuck on comparatively low HP easy to lose tier 1/1.5. If you mess up the Marauder you screw Terrans over late game even more ( which is their weakest point already ).


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Protoss have much better replacement mechanics. Sounds like you are just getting out played. Sure Colossus are slow to come out, but with good reason.

its not even me being out played,its him being able to funnel in mass after mass of marine's even after i wipe them out


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Terran needs Marauders to be that powerful because their later tier units are easily counterable comparative to units like Protoss'. I don't think we will see Marauders being touched beyond maybe a slight stim nerf, because they are *needed* as powerful as they are now. They are good, but even tier 1 units are pretty cost effective vs them ( marines are decent, speedlings are REALLY good w/ surround ). Best that they are cheap for how powerful they are, but they are no where near as well rounded as a stalker, and no where near as easy to replace as a roach ect.

Just remember while at least Protoss players are on these nice amazingly powerful tier 3 units Terran is still kinda stuck on comparatively low HP easy to lose tier 1/1.5. If you mess up the Marauder you screw Terrans over late game even more ( which is their weakest point already ).

Fully aware of that BUT my main problem are marauders in EARLY game. They take down buildings and stalkers so easily.

Blizzard should have nerfed Marauder and not tanks. Use the tanks to counter t3 Colossi. But Vikings are probably better for that any way.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Fully aware of that BUT my main problem are marauders in EARLY game. They take down buildings and stalkers so easily.

Blizzard should have nerfed Marauder and not tanks. Use the tanks to counter t3 Colossi. But Vikings are probably better for that any way.

I agree with the comment on tanks. 5 hits to kill a tier 1 zealot for a siege tank now? That's ******ed. I would like to see metal be better over bio. Just saying in its current state if JUST the marauder was nerfed and nothing else was adjusted it would ruin terran.


----------



## poroboszcz

Marauders have been nerfed by supply before rax early game, and by increasing Nexus and Zerg buildings health late game (drops).

Conc shell was a major problem when you could have marauders in your base against a single zealot, but now you always have enough time to get stalker/sentry. Even though I wouldn't mind conc shell costing 100/100, I haven't lost to early marauders in a long time, even with fast expanding.


----------



## DoomDash

100/100 didn't bother me ( in beta it was like this ).


----------



## EmMure

i suggest you guys watch this match i just played pretty funny
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...ss-metalopolis


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like oc.nets very own oktoberfest is in the top 200 of NA. Pretty cool that I went 2-3 against him in the finals







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1026297#blog

Darrenc.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I was going to say it a couple of times already, but you should seriously work on your text formatting skills. No offense, but you'll make everyone's life easier. Reading through your posts is really painful.









Excellent, my plan has worked, muhahahah







Well, I usually cut them, but, cutting that paragraph would've ruined the meaning since everything relies on the previous points. I'll see what I can do in the near future







Everyone agree that my explanations are too long to read?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Logging into SC2 right now and nothing happens...
I put in password and it goes to the next screen, but does not present me with my username and profile picture like it usually does.
Have exited out of game and restarted computer several times.
Any suggestions???

Might be something from Blizzard's end, is it working now?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I agree with the comment on tanks. 5 hits to kill a tier 1 zealot for a siege tank now? That's ******ed. I would like to see metal be better over bio. Just saying in its current state if JUST the marauder was nerfed and nothing else was adjusted it would ruin terran.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
It's a combination of everything, really. It has high HP for an early tier unit, does *twice* its normal damage against armored, can be stimmed, gets a passive upgrade which is insanely strong (50% movement speed debuff for 50/50... nullifies any other movement speed upgrade that are often more expensive. I'm looking at you, banelings). Only costs 2 supply, and is 100 crystal and a measly 25 gas.

Part of the problem, on top of all these strengths, is how easy it is to replenish their numbers. Oh, your MM got taken down by something (but you took down 50% of their force)? Here, have some more marauders coming right behind!

The effectiveness against t2 and t3 units on top of the high replenishment rate kinda makes it a target for nerf cries, and i figure, actual nerfs in the future.

Well, I kinda agree, however, I think thors should be used more often. They are technically the counter to colossi and ultralisks. I agree with doomdash about the marauder, see above post ^^.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Marauders have been nerfed by supply before rax early game, and by increasing Nexus and Zerg buildings health late game (drops).

Conc shell was a major problem when you could have marauders in your base against a single zealot, but now you always have enough time to get stalker/sentry. Even though I wouldn't mind conc shell costing 100/100, I haven't lost to early marauders in a long time, even with fast expanding.

I doubt 100/100 would make THAT much of a difference. I mean sure a couple of less marauders, but, most will still research it







As for the health, well, zerg buildings were really low on health compared to their counterparts so it makes sense that they give them more hp, doubt it was meant to target marauders' damage if that's what you mean









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Looks like Overclock.nets very own oktoberfest is in the top 200 of NA. Pretty cool that I went 2-3 against him in the finals







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1026297#blog

Darrenc.

oh, nice


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

Well, I kinda agree, however, I think thors should be used more often. They are technically the counter to and ultralisks.

I'm guessing you've never seen Thor's vs Ultras before because its a pretty one sided rape fest. Ultras are the counter to anything armored on the ground really.

*Edit* Decided to test things out in unit tester for you. All 5 on 5 battles.

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras on creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 5 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep with the +2 armor upgrade vs Target Firing Thors = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Thors with 250 MM cannons = 4 left

Unmicroed Ultras with full upgrades vs Thor's with full upgrades = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras with Thor's spread out in a line that would take up most of a screen ( so they are not touching to prevent splash ) = Thors win with 3 left ( both with and without full upgrades )

So basically the only way that Thor's can come out ahead is if you have a Maginot Line that is not on the offensive, in a open map allowing that room.


----------



## DoomDash

I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.

On that note.... what if banelings were changed to light?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Looks like Overclock.nets very own oktoberfest is in the top 200 of NA. Pretty cool that I went 2-3 against him in the finals







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1026297#blog

Darrenc.

Wow. Shame he doesn't post in this thread. Maybe he at least reads it for lulz.

I'm generally under impression that really good players aren't keen to share their opinions, builds etc. Just look at TL.net where 80% of posts are like complete nonsense and top players barely ever say anything, at least in strategy forums.


----------



## poroboszcz

double post


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.

Hardcore fans of the series tend to forget that SC2 was released 12 years after Brood War and the large majority of the player base is (I would assume) new to the game. I played WoW for 4 years; my only previous RTS experience was ~2 weeks of Warcraft II and some SC single-player. While some of the longtime fans of the series know every match-up in and out, most people are just being introduced to this.

I knew Psi Storm didn't stack, but I didn't know Banelings weren't classified as light units







It's pretty counter-intuitive considering they morph from the poster child of cheap and efficient light units.


----------



## DoomDash

I wish they were light.

but about your comment I really don't see being new to RTS or the SC universe mattering in what we were specifically discussing. The light / Armored stuff is actual new ( kinda ) to the series. So if you played since the game came out you had just as much time as me to learn everything. I'm not saying people who don't know everything are stupid or anything, I'm just saying it's funny when people think Hellions are some how the counter for banelings when in most situations they are risky and rather ineffective.

I played lots of SC1 and BW until about 2002. I had a great understanding of the games concepts immediately and was in Diamond within a day of playing, even coming late... so it does help in that sense.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Wow. Shame he doesn't post in this thread. Maybe he at least reads it for lulz.

I'm generally under impression that really good players aren't keen to share their opinions, builds etc. Just look at TL.net where 80% of posts are like complete nonsense and top players barely ever say anything, at least in strategy forums.

Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 

Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.

But you play terran and you're extremely biased.









Sure there are exceptions, but you don't often see very high level players willing to share their knowledge.


----------



## DoomDash

I wonder when the Terran race jokes will go away.







.

Also I do see some doing it. qxc for example made a bunch of cool videos of his games and why he did what he did. He may not exactly post it, but he makes a video instead. Day9 did the same thing in his own way with his show.

Anyway you guys staying up for Nada vs Boxer!?!? I know I am.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm guessing you've never seen Thor's vs Ultras before because its a pretty one sided rape fest. Ultras are the counter to anything armored on the ground really.

*Edit* Decided to test things out in unit tester for you. All 5 on 5 battles.

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras on creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 5 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep with the +2 armor upgrade vs Target Firing Thors = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Thors with 250 MM cannons = 4 left

Unmicroed Ultras with full upgrades vs Thor's with full upgrades = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras with Thor's spread out in a line that would take up most of a screen ( so they are not touching to prevent splash ) = Thors win with 3 left ( both with and without full upgrades )

So basically the only way that Thor's can come out ahead is if you have a Maginot Line that is not on the offensive, in a open map allowing that room.

TBH, I haven't done much experimentation with ultras. Most of it is from people who did those tests themselves, since, I'm not even getting time to play some games myself. It does make sense that thors win if they are in a line to reduce splash and obviously focus firing. Also, chokes are very common in SC2 maps and do I hate it







This means that since thors have range, you can use chokes to your advantage against ultralisks. All I was saying was that one on one, they can be pretty even although, thors have many advantages(air, cannons, range, etc....) and come out much much earlier which means that they are good for their costs









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.

On that note.... what if banelings were changed to light?

Well, I only recently started paying more attention to the different types of armor, prior to that, I was mostly considering damage with the random look at a unit's armor. I've only played 60-70 games in league, some of them ended rather quickly when I lost to MMM ball or zealot+stalker+sentry/colossi combo. As for banes, well, zlings are light, so, it's kinda odd they aren't. For storm, I thought it stacked, I mean didn't it in SC1, since, I vaguely recall players double casting storm?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
But you play terran and you're extremely biased.









Sure there are exceptions, but you don't often see very high level players willing to share their knowledge.

That's pretty much the problem with anyone commenting about the race they play. Regardless of how much they try, they'll always be a bit biased about their race. Personally, I approach the game from a side view and put my bias aside. Either way, I do agree that banes are powerful. If you are able to kite them and you should be able to with stim for T, along with the fact you can use ff to seperate them and then take them on one by one for P means that they can be dealt with, just not easily, but, it's doable









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I wish they were light.

but about your comment I really don't see being new to RTS or the SC universe mattering in what we were specifically discussing. The light / Armored stuff is actual new ( kinda ) to the series. So if you played since the game came out you had just as much time as me to learn everything. I'm not saying people who don't know everything are stupid or anything, I'm just saying it's funny when people think Hellions are some how the counter for banelings when in most situations they are risky and rather ineffective.

I was just thinking about how they can change banes so that they don't nerf their damage and changing them to light is the only possibility I could come up with so that they can still hard counter marines without losing their touch.
Maybe slightly reduce splash damage when they explode, but, otherwise, any other method of nerfing them might be a bad idea and will definitely cause QQing since banes were in SC2 from its release date and there hasn't been any complaints until now








As for the armor stuff, well, I was mostly into the campaign until end of Sept or so when I started playing some practice games and eventually jumped into the league. I have a lot to learn about T and P and still need to improve my speed and macro/micro with zerg although it's becoming much better from when I started







Well, banes only do 20 damage to hellions and hellions have speed, so, even though you can't one shot them with hellions, you can at least reduce their hp from afar and use marines/marauders to finish them off. Of course, this requires good micro but it can be done









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I played lots of SC1 and BW until about 2002. I had a great understanding of the games concepts immediately and was in Diamond within a day of playing, even coming late... so it does help in that sense.

Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.

I never played competitively(in league) in BW. I mostly played against friends or against AI with friends on the fastest map possible, although, I did play some matches on lost temple and some other blizzard maps and recall losing most of them. The only match I can remember was when I was attacked by cloaked wriaths and I had NO clue what they were, lol. All I saw was something killing my scvs and attacking my cc and they were moving around in the minerals







I have NO clue that they could be cloaked and I was focusing on infantry. Most of my focus was on SP and some MP as well and I played on and off


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I wonder when the Terran race jokes will go away.







.

Also I do see some doing it. qxc for example made a bunch of cool videos of his games and why he did what he did. He may not exactly post it, but he makes a video instead. Day9 did the same thing in his own way with his show.

Anyway you guys staying up for Nada vs Boxer!?!? I know I am.

Time for match? If at 7 or so, then I can probably get up to watch it, otherwise, I'm sleeping in







I think most pros are hesitant to give their build due to people copying it although that doesn't mean that they will be as good as them at it


----------



## DoomDash

Nov 02, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Nov 02, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9)

hmm, that's really cutting it close, I think it's 6 my time and I'll likely to be asleep by then.

Anyways, whatever you guys do, just make not to spoil this match, because, this is gonna be epic. I'll probably skip the rest of the matches to watch this then go back


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## EmMure

he's got it right


----------



## DoomDash

Where has Thiru been?


----------



## EmMure

eating cheese and wine lol


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


eating cheese and wine lol


Lol pretty much, I'm out of town.


----------



## DoomDash

ah


----------



## DoomDash

boxer nada 19 min.


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...lopolis#rd:dna

please watch,PvP,only 16 mins long


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nerf Mutas


----------



## thiru

NO SPOILERS please, I'm going to watch those when I get home


----------



## DoomDash

DoomDash wins the GSL!!! lol i wish. man epic so far ( boxer nada )


----------



## DoomDash

boxer beats nada!!
Yessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












dangit, was about to post this ;P


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran needs Marauders to be that powerful because their later tier units are easily counterable comparative to units like Protoss'. I don't think we will see Marauders being touched beyond maybe a slight stim nerf, because they are *needed* as powerful as they are now. They are good, but even tier 1 units are pretty cost effective vs them ( marines are decent, speedlings are REALLY good w/ surround ). Best that they are cheap for how powerful they are, but they are no where near as well rounded as a stalker, and no where near as easy to replace as a roach ect.

Just remember while at least Protoss players are on these nice amazingly powerful tier 3 units Terran is still kinda stuck on comparatively low HP easy to lose tier 1/1.5. If you mess up the Marauder you screw Terrans over late game even more ( which is their weakest point already ).


Though I agree that Terran currently needs a powerful unit like the rauder to provide firepower, I find that this unit is far too pivotal and degrades the diversity of the game. SC2 has been hugely successful in diversifying zerg and protoss armies, but you almost NEVER see a terran going without marauders.

When facing a terran opponent, I'm 95% sure he'll be massing rauders. Even when I work up a direct counter, I can still end up losing and I think that's lame.

Blizzard needs to tone down rauders and provide terran with alternate strategies. Enough said.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Nerf Mutas


umm, no. Mutas already cost a lot(100/100) for what they do. I already posted about this a couple of posts back ^^.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*




















This is an actual photo?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Where has Thiru been?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


eating cheese and wine lol












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*




















Nice comic strip, guessing Foxer loves using marines. They are much much better than SC1 in groups, so, I do agree that they much more useful, not that SC1 marine weren't









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Though I agree that Terran currently needs a powerful unit like the rauder to provide firepower, I find that this unit is far too pivotal and degrades the diversity of the game. SC2 has been hugely successful in diversifying zerg and protoss armies, but you almost NEVER see a terran going without marauders.

When facing a terran opponent, I'm 95% sure he'll be massing rauders. Even when I work up a direct counter, I can still end up losing and I think that's lame.

Blizzard needs to tone down rauders and provide terran with alternate strategies. Enough said.


While I agree, what are the alternatives to slightly nerfing marauders? I mean what else can the buff? Tanks? Thors? Marines? There only so much that they can buff ATM without drastically changing the game. I don't see much raven use in games, likewise, not many use bc(I know that it's longer to tech to), etc....


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While I agree, what are the alternatives to slightly nerfing marauders? I mean what else can the buff? Tanks? Thors? Marines? There only so much that they can buff ATM without drastically changing the game. I don't see much raven use in games, likewise, not many use bc(I know that it's longer to tech to), etc....










Ravens have been used by some pros and they are VERY effective. The issue is that marauder works just fine, why go through the trouble of getting ravens?

The buffs don't have to come to terran. Blizzard can change zerg or protoss units to make the change work. I would propose something weird like reducing marauder range by 1, and zealot charge range by 2 (completely random suggestion btw).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Ravens have been used by some pros and they are VERY effective. The issue is that marauder works just fine, why go through the trouble of getting ravens?

The buffs don't have to come to terran. Blizzard can change zerg or protoss units to make the change work. I would propose something weird like reducing marauder range by 1, and zealot charge range by 2 (completely random suggestion btw).


They are but the average player is rarely going to use a raven. PPD, dropping auto-turrets and HSM are all pretty great and powerful in the hands of a pro and I think I've seen PPD only once used by a T, otherwise, most go for MMM ball or marine/thors and then try to do some harassement using banshees, etc....


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Anyways, I think using MMG is much harder for P than Z, since, EMP takes out all shields for P meaning 1/2 the hp is gone in some cases which makes it easier to take down a large P force. Most pros try to take down the ghost first if they are playing P because of EMP.


EMP takes away something like 1/3 effective HP. If I can, I'll retreat after eating a good EMP - the REAL painful part is losing HT/sentry/immortal mana or shields.

From my POV it's very hard taking out ghosts with HT, given that ghosts EMP is AoE and they can encroach using cloak. It's often very tough targeting ghosts in time when they're walking amongst a giant bioball.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


EMP takes away something like 1/3 effective HP. If I can, I'll retreat after eating a good EMP - the REAL painful part is losing HT/sentry/immortal mana or shields.

From my POV it's very hard taking out ghosts with HT, given that ghosts EMP is AoE and they can encroach using cloak. It's often very tough targeting ghosts in time when they're walking amongst a giant bioball.


hmm, why not try an observor and dts against ghosts, as in go in, snipe them out and then attack and use storm? Of course, if they have a raven, then your dt's are history, but, obviously you'll be watching for these things


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Nerf Mutas


Nerf them? Mutas already kinda suck for the 100/100 price tag. I hate spending on them. Sporecrawler, hydra, and corruptor are all better values for AA. Nerf mutas, nobody will use them anymore.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Though I agree that Terran currently needs a powerful unit like the rauder to provide firepower, I find that this unit is far too pivotal and degrades the diversity of the game. SC2 has been hugely successful in diversifying zerg and protoss armies, but you almost NEVER see a terran going without marauders.

When facing a terran opponent, I'm 95% sure he'll be massing rauders. Even when I work up a direct counter, I can still end up losing and I think that's lame.

Blizzard needs to tone down rauders and provide terran with alternate strategies. Enough said.


This, a thousand times this.

If you watch the gsl 1 finals, or rather the sections before the matches: the short presentations of each player, showing the best moments of each match.

Fruitdealer: ultras. infestors. zerglings. baneling bombs, mutas. Pretty much every damn zerg unit.

overtherainbow (i think was the name?): marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders. marines marauders.

I think of about 15-20 different "cuts", ONE was not a marine/marauder.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, why not try an observor and dts against ghosts, as in go in, snipe them out and then attack and use storm? Of course, if they have a raven, then your dt's are history, but, obviously you'll be watching for these things










HTs don't directly counter ghosts, just as ghosts don't directly counter HTs, it's really just a matter of having better micro.

Not sure how familiar you are with HTs, they move REALLY slow (I think slowest ground unit in-game) so they tend to lag behind and are a pain to bring up for feedback. Best solution is to leave them in the back and spread them out. Colossi work great for picking off ghosts but they're not 100% reliable.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Nerf them? Mutas already kinda suck for the 100/100 price tag. I hate spending on them. Sporecrawler, hydra, and corruptor are all better values for AA. Nerf mutas, nobody will use them anymore.


No way! I love mutas. I always use them when I'm playing zerg. And why are you classifying muta as AA??


----------



## xserpint

Calling mutas AA is like calling a phoenix AG... just doesn't fit. Yeah, they both can hit them, but they are better used for other things.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


No way! I love mutas. I always use them when I'm playing zerg. And why are you classifying muta as AA??


Naw, they're best as an AG harass unit. I usually get a few and do at least one mineral line fly-by just to force my opponent to allocate resources to honor the threat. That's about the only thing I like them for anymore. Sometimes you see a Terran who is sloppy about protecting his seige tanks and mutas are nice then. For almost any other application they're just too expensive for what they do.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nerf mutas, then make them cost 125/50 or 2000000/200.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Naw, they're best as an AG harass unit. I usually get a few and do at least one mineral line fly-by just to force my opponent to allocate resources to honor the threat. That's about the only thing I like them for anymore. Sometimes you see a Terran who is sloppy about protecting his seige tanks and mutas are nice then. For almost any other application they're just too expensive for what they do.


Well then, I'm not sure why you have that impression because I lose tons of games to muta and I'm not exactly a noob.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doomdash*












lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Well then, I'm not sure why you have that impression because I lose tons of games to muta and I'm not exactly a noob.


Cool, I just noticed you play protoss. What are your basic openings for each map/matchup while laddering, if you don't mind sharing it?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Cool, I just noticed you play protoss. What are your basic openings for each map/matchup while laddering, if you don't mind sharing it?


I'd go on for ever if I were to write about each map/matchup. What are you having trouble with?


----------



## EmMure

im so sick of this game,or atleast bronze league im tired of being beat buy stupid cheese builds or rushs


----------



## DoomDash

Then get out!


----------



## EmMure

im trying!im getting held back by frickin ****** kids who just do cannon rushes or ****ing mass zealots


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im trying!im getting held back by frickin ****** kids who just do cannon rushes or ****ing mass zealots


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Then get out!









Would be my answer as well









Just make sure you have a probe outside your base and check for pylons, then built one near their base and use dts if they have no cannons or robo bay. GG is what will follow







Either way, just enjoy it. VRs rushes, MMM, etc.... while do also happen at the silver league level, but, not as much, since, some mix in stalkers and sentries or colossi, etc....


----------



## EmMure

im just gonna have my friend get me outta bronze lol he's diamond so shouldnt be hard for him


----------



## thiru




----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
I'd go on for ever if I were to write about each map/matchup. What are you having trouble with?

Can't think about anything in particular. Was just wondering what builds are effective on ladder at that level.

I generally struggle against zerg recently and often lose either to muta/ling or some fast switches from roaches to hydras. I can't seem to be able to pressure the zerg enough early even when I go 4 gate, and he gets like 3+ spine crawlers + lings/roaches. And the less I pressure, the more outmacroed I get and eventually lose.

My PvT is ok. I tend to lose to some semi-early (~10 min) attacks with MM+ghosts or marine/raven/banshee, but luckily don't see them very often.


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









dude,i cant help it i love the game but bronze makes me hate it sooo much,so imma have him dig me iinto silver then ill take over


----------



## thiru

If you can't deal with cheese in bronze, wait till you see it in platinum. They know how to do it perfectly.


----------



## DoomDash

I see cheese 1/20







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
dude,i cant help it i love the game but bronze makes me hate it sooo much,so imma have him dig me iinto silver then ill take over

I suggest you don't. Just scout their base early on and then build the appropriate counter. Easy as that, I also agree with thiru, opponents will likely be able to cheese much better at the higher levels, so, you'll have a hard time adjusting


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
dude,i cant help it i love the game but bronze makes me hate it sooo much,so imma have him dig me iinto silver then ill take over

If you can't deal with cheese in bronze how are you going to deal with it in silver? If you lose to it so often have a friend, even from bronze or silver, zealot/cannon rush you in practice games as long until you're able to deal with it comfortably, then go back to laddering.


----------



## EmMure

im fine with cheese ill learn to counter it,its the stupid random ******ed builds im annoyed with


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im fine with cheese ill learn to counter it,its the stupid random ******ed builds im annoyed with

Yes, but, that's the fun part, dealing with the all the different cheese. Personally, wish I was in bronze, just so that I can play around with T and P then move back to Silver after I master the other two races


----------



## thiru

Those are kind of the easiest to counter at bronze level.


----------



## Epona

One free name change for players. :0

http://twitter.com/#!/StarCraft/status/29522059417


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Can't think about anything in particular. Was just wondering what builds are effective on ladder at that level.

I generally struggle against zerg recently and often lose either to muta/ling or some fast switches from roaches to hydras. I can't seem to be able to pressure the zerg enough early even when I go 4 gate, and he gets like 3+ spine crawlers + lings/roaches. And the less I pressure, the more outmacroed I get and eventually lose.

My PvT is ok. I tend to lose to some semi-early (~10 min) attacks with MM+ghosts or marine/raven/banshee, but luckily don't see them very often.

I seldom go into a game with a predefined build. At this level it's a matter of mixing things up and adapting to the opponent's play. On large maps, you'll see almost every zerg hatch -> pool so it's safe to go 15/18 -> nexus -> forge -> gate -> canon. I find that phoenix are a great deterrent to zerg macro. Keeps overlords from scouting and spreading creep, plus you can dominate queens.

So basically, contain the zerg with air while you mass up and mix it up good. ALWAYS have an observer in the zerg base and watch out for ultra cave. Have 4+ immortals ready when he pumps out ultras, otherwise you lose. When you hit from range with colossi, throw curveballs like warping in zealots in the main from warp prisms.

Terran is tough because they're so strong early-game. Best advice here is to take command right away if and when you win a battle. Walk up to his choke and don't let him out + expand.

Final advice is get good with force field, it's the best ability protoss has.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im fine with cheese ill learn to counter it,its the stupid random ******ed builds im annoyed with

You'll eventually see that cheese builds are extremely bad, post replays of cheese builds and I'll show you how to beat them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
I seldom go into a game with a predefined build. At this level it's a matter of mixing things up and adapting to the opponent's play. On large maps, you'll see almost every zerg hatch -> pool so it's safe to go 15/18 -> nexus -> forge -> gate -> canon. I find that phoenix are a great deterrent to zerg macro. Keeps overlords from scouting and spreading creep, plus you can dominate queens.

So basically, contain the zerg with air while you mass up and mix it up good. ALWAYS have an observer in the zerg base and watch out for ultra cave. Have 4+ immortals ready when he pumps out ultras, otherwise you lose. When you hit from range with colossi, throw curveballs like warping in zealots in the main from warp prisms.

Terran is tough because they're so strong early-game. Best advice here is to take command right away if and when you win a battle. Walk up to his choke and don't let him out + expand.

Final advice is get good with force field, it's the best ability protoss has.

You'll eventually see that cheese builds are extremely bad, post replays of cheese builds and I'll show you how to beat them.

I'm mostly a zerg player since I play as zerg on 1vs1, however, I plan on moving to random and I'm learning T and P ATM. In terms of ff, what's the best way to use them? I mean if an MMM comes to my base, I would think ffing the ramp to cut the army in half then use stalkers to take them out before ff wears off would be the best option, but, what about open areas? What should I do then?


----------



## thiru

If you have lots of zealots, you FF behind them to trap them, if you have lots of ranged units you split them in half so that they can't all stim and snipe your colossus.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
If you have lots of zealots, you FF behind them to trap them, if you have lots of ranged units you split them in half so that they can't all stim and snipe your colossus.

I see, while I agree with the whole trap them, the zealot will still be hit by whatever marines/marauders that escaped ff, so, I guess in that case, it's more about preventing stim and kiting. I like ff, but, haven't played enough P 1vs1 games to try and use it to practice







+REP


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I see cheese 1/20







.

Same... Id assume there would be more cheese in bronze league

Pretty much the only cheese I lose to nowadays is 6 pool







Im always pretty close to surviving but come up short. I need to skip my 14/15 gas once I see an early pool.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
im fine with cheese ill learn to counter it,its the stupid random ******ed builds im annoyed with

Dont feel bad if you lose to cheese. Just learn from it. Id rather lose by cheese than to be outplayed.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Same... Id assume there would be more cheese in bronze league

Pretty much the only cheese I lose to nowadays is 6 pool







Im always pretty close to surviving but come up short. I need to skip my 14/15 gas once I see an early pool.


 6 pool is the easiest cheese to scout and the easiest to react to... All you have to do is wall off completely with a forge and make a cannon or two, assuming you already made your first pylon to block your ramp.


----------



## blackedv

well i finally just tried my first cheese build 2 gate proxy, my partner insisted on it. we promptly lost cuz it was scouted and cannons were waiting for us behind the rocks lol


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Id rather lose by cheese than to be outplayed.


I rather be outplayed, so I can review the replay and learn from my mistakes and find holes in my builds timings. Heck, if I could have ITR, Cella, and Genius as my practice partners for each race, I'd be outplayed every time, but eventually I'd get better.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If you're outplayed you can learn. Loosing to cheese is just you not knowing the basics. It doesn't help you to play at all.


----------



## DoomDash

I'd rather win.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
 6 pool is the easiest cheese to scout and the easiest to react to... All you have to do is wall off completely with a forge and make a cannon or two, assuming you already made your first pylon to block your ramp.

The lings will get to your base before you get your cannon/zealot out. Try it out. The timing for 6 pools is faster.

And I never make a forge first. Im not a big fan of static defense.

Also building your pylon near choke makes it that much more vulnerable to the lings taking it out.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
I rather be outplayed, so I can review the replay and learn from my mistakes and find holes in my builds timings. Heck, if I could have ITR, Cella, and Genius as my practice partners for each race, I'd be outplayed every time, but eventually I'd get better.

That's understandable but I dont feel as bad when I lose from cheese


----------



## timf808

anyone got link for GSL season 2 videos?


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/videos
http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2


----------



## EgoProxy

GSL!

So.... Nada and Slayers'Boxer made it to the quarter finals and earlier this morning they duked it out. Not gonna spoil it for ya.

Also, Protoss did not make it to the semi-finals once again.

www.gomtv.net for those that want to watch the largest gaming tournament in the world. Free LQ vids for those that don't want to shell out the 20$ for the HD. I shelled out the 20 to support the scene. Semi's this coming Wednesday =).


----------



## timf808

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.justin.tv/seriouscallersonly/videos
http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2


thx mang,

doomdash.... mvc2 player? lol


----------



## EmMure

changed my account name now im EmMure 541,bigfan readd me


----------



## DoomDash

My name will remain the same.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timf808* 
thx mang,

doomdash.... mvc2 player? lol

No, however I'm a pretty good Tekken player







.

Pretty close to 1700.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im wondering where all of the original OCN SC2 players went

We used to have a good 10+ people practice when the game released


----------



## DoomDash

I make up for all of them.

777 posts in this thread.


----------



## ThumperSD

*facepalm*


----------



## DoomDash

Quantity over quality right?


----------



## ThumperSD

sure buddy


----------



## ThumperSD

Just beat a 1500+ diamond after not playing for over a week
http://screplays.com/system/files/re...zler.SC2Replay

I need to play 1v1 more


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow im kinda rusty..

Just watched the replay and noticed my macro was slipping at the end. Should have thrown up my expo when I was attacking.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


The lings will get to your base before you get your cannon/zealot out. Try it out. The timing for 6 pools is faster.

And I never make a forge first. Im not a big fan of static defense.

Also building your pylon near choke makes it that much more vulnerable to the lings taking it out.


It doesn't matter, if he can't get in, he loses. It's as simple as that. I win against 6pool simply because I put down a pylon, a gateway as per the usual build and then I see the 6 pool "late" I put down a forge and 1 more pylon to completely wall off, and I will get a cannon out before the first layer dies completely. If I see the 6pool early enough I just cancel the gateway I just started and put down a forge and again, the cannon will get there in time, or you will have enough money to make a second layer.

If he's 6 pooling you don't need any other response than this, if he can't use his 6 first lings to kill your probes he WILL LOSE, even if you lose all your other buildings (which won't happen, but I'm just saying his only chance is to destroy your economy). Doesn't matter if you got the forge before the gateway or if you lose your first gateway or a pylon, he can't get in and he never will because the only time you leave your base it will be to end the game. It's much safer than building at home because microing the probes can fail, this simply cannot. He will run away once that cannon is up.

And not walling off against zerg makes you that more vulnerable to zergling run by's, not sure why you wouldn't do it. No zerg player is going to enter your base while your army is out and think "damn these buildings are defenseless" he's going to be like "LOL PROBE RAPE" which wouldn't happen if you had a wall and a zealot.

edit: assuming you scout at 9 and that it's a 2 player map. Do people even 6 pool on a 4 player map? that would be annoying if he's lucky to find you first. Never seen it though.


----------



## DoomDash

nony vs idra show matches spoiler free
http://vodcraft.com/nony-vs-gosu-pvz-_2316.htm


----------



## Tchernobyl

the winner of blizz's pumpkin contest :O


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I'm mostly a zerg player since I play as zerg on 1vs1, however, I plan on moving to random and I'm learning T and P ATM. In terms of ff, what's the best way to use them? I mean if an MMM comes to my base, I would think ffing the ramp to cut the army in half then use stalkers to take them out before ff wears off would be the best option, but, what about open areas? What should I do then?










It's more complicated than just making a giant wall. You want to FF accurately and quickly (make sure not to overlap). If trapping MM (or any unit, really) you want to make a V shape trap. In a way, FF acts like an invisible barrier, and if you place your trap properly, units will try and walk through it and bang their faces against it repeatedly whilst getting obliterated. I'll find replays showcasing this when I get home.

If you have a solid number of colossi you can chop the opposing army in half and pick stuff off from a distance while keeping your zealots back.

You can also squeeze units against walls or against other fields in tight areas. This completely disables the unit. In fact, I played a game where it came down to 3 sentries vs 2 rauders at half HP. I won by squeezing both in FFs in a ramp.

You shouldn't really fight in open fully areas, especially vs zerg.. unless you have a huge army and enough FF to make giant walls.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'd rather win.


lol, who wouldn't?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I make up for all of them.

777 posts in this thread.


I've probably made more, lol. How did you check?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


changed my account name now im EmMure 541,bigfan readd me


Will do









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


It's more complicated than just making a giant wall. You want to FF accurately and quickly (make sure not to overlap). If trapping MM (or any unit, really) you want to make a V shape trap. In a way, FF acts like an invisible barrier, and if you place your trap properly, units will try and walk through it and bang their faces against it repeatedly whilst getting obliterated. I'll find replays showcasing this when I get home.

If you have a solid number of colossi you can chop the opposing army in half and pick stuff off from a distance while keeping your zealots back.

You can also squeeze units against walls or against other fields in tight areas. This completely disables the unit. In fact, I played a game where it came down to 3 sentries vs 2 rauders at half HP. I won by squeezing both in FFs in a ramp.

You shouldn't really fight in open fully areas, especially vs zerg.. unless you have a huge army and enough FF to make giant walls.


Well, most of the pro games I've seen on Xelnaga cavern for instance, shows them using ff to seperate an MM ball then using their stalkers+zealots to take out the first half stuck towards them, then they take down the rest after it wears off provided the opponent hasn't retreated. I don't ever recall seeing a V shaped ff. My point is that units like MM have a range of 6, so, the benefit of ff is using ranged units(stalkers,sentries) to take out the half trapped closest to you then use the remaining to take out the other half, as in overpower them, but, if you have a mostly zealot army then ff is pretty much useless since the zealots will still be hit by the MM behind the ff. If your opponent has mostly melee units, such as most zerg tier 1(slings, blings, etc....), then it's very beneficial if you can use ff to trap them then pick them off using stalkers, sentries which outrange roaches, etc.... Do you see my point?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*











the winner of blizz's pumpkin contest :O


Is that an OL that I see or do my eyes decieve me?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


And not walling off against zerg makes you that more vulnerable to zergling run by's, not sure why you wouldn't do it. No zerg player is going to enter your base while your army is out and think "damn these buildings are defenseless" he's going to be like "LOL PROBE RAPE" which wouldn't happen if you had a wall and a zealot.


While I hate walling off, I think it's very important to do so against Zerg. I've played many games where the opponent forget to close their supply depot or leave an open space and I'll squeeze 24-30 lings and tear up their base before they bring their units back to take out my slings. Personally, i think it's a must until you exp and leave some defense in the base(photo cannons, some units, etc....)

Edit: To clarify, I meant that roaches have range of 4 so if you use ff to trap them, you can pick them off from a distance safely due to range 6 stalkers and sentries


----------



## Tchernobyl

Yep, someone made an overlord XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Yep, someone made an overlord XD


lol, although, the OL is missing it's head


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OMG that pumpkin carving is awesome

Lucky for you thump. I haven't played in a month and lost to hard AI.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
nony vs idra show matches spoiler free
http://vodcraft.com/nony-vs-gosu-pvz-_2316.htm

yeah I just watched it last night/morning before bed. I can't believe how quickly Idra gives up.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, although, the OL is missing it's head









no it's not! look to the left of it, that 2nd pumpkin hanging next to it


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
no it's not! look to the left of it, that 2nd pumpkin hanging next to it









lol, I know, I saw the pumpkin, but, it's NOT on the body or close enough to it to make it look like the head's attached









^^I haven't watched the match, since, I tried but it was already over, but, I also heard that he gave up very fast against Nony.


----------



## scaz

Yea, my family, sleep, and work time has really taken over my schedual as of late. I play SC2 when ever I have me time. I really need to work on micro, but I don't have the time for it.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I can't believe how quickly **** gives up.

Thanks for the spoiler man!


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Im wondering where all of the original OCN SC2 players went

We used to have a good 10+ people practice when the game released

Im still here. I just dont post as much.
I used to get most of my hints and tips here, but now I mostly watch Day9`s dailies and practice with Razul, Huggle(Thiru), Epona, Dawl and Jediwin.

Ima add you Thumper and EmMure on bnet.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Just beat a 1500+ diamond after not playing for over a week
http://screplays.com/system/files/re...zler.SC2Replay

I need to play 1v1 more

And why would you use a site that needs registration to download a replay?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Well, most of the pro games I've seen on Xelnaga cavern for instance, shows them using ff to seperate an MM ball then using their stalkers+zealots to take out the first half stuck towards them, then they take down the rest after it wears off provided the opponent hasn't retreated. I don't ever recall seeing a V shaped ff.

My point is that units like MM have a range of 6, so, the benefit of ff is using ranged units(stalkers,sentries) to take out the half trapped closest to you then use the remaining to take out the other half, as in overpower them, but, if you have a mostly zealot army then ff is pretty much useless since the zealots will still be hit by the MM behind the ff.

If your opponent has mostly melee units, such as most zerg tier 1(slings, blings, etc....), then it's very beneficial if you can use ff to trap them then pick them off using stalkers, sentries which outrange roaches, etc.... Do you see my point?









Fixed.









Maybe you're just not paying attention. You can see this kind of forcefield play clearly in games 1 and 4 of the series posted by doomdash.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It doesn't matter, if he can't get in, he loses. It's as simple as that. I win against 6pool simply because I put down a pylon, a gateway as per the usual build and then I see the 6 pool "late" I put down a forge and 1 more pylon to completely wall off, and I will get a cannon out before the first layer dies completely. If I see the 6pool early enough I just cancel the gateway I just started and put down a forge and again, the cannon will get there in time, or you will have enough money to make a second layer.

If he's 6 pooling you don't need any other response than this, if he can't use his 6 first lings to kill your probes he WILL LOSE, even if you lose all your other buildings (which won't happen, but I'm just saying his only chance is to destroy your economy). Doesn't matter if you got the forge before the gateway or if you lose your first gateway or a pylon, he can't get in and he never will because the only time you leave your base it will be to end the game. It's much safer than building at home because microing the probes can fail, this simply cannot. He will run away once that cannon is up.

And not walling off against zerg makes you that more vulnerable to zergling run by's, not sure why you wouldn't do it. No zerg player is going to enter your base while your army is out and think "damn these buildings are defenseless" he's going to be like "LOL PROBE RAPE" which wouldn't happen if you had a wall and a zealot.

edit: assuming you scout at 9 and that it's a 2 player map. Do people even 6 pool on a 4 player map? that would be annoying if he's lucky to find you first. Never seen it though.

Do you ALWAYS fully block your choke against zerg? I just dont see this working in higher levels.

I dont like delaying my gateway and tech. TBH I dont know how practical it is to throw up a forge first unless you are going for a FE.

So what if you throw up the forge and he does NOT do a 6 pool? This allows him to get his FE or go 7RR.

Im trying to find a better to defend against it . I think the answer could be building a pylon at the choke. But I like to use either 2 gateways or 1gate/1cyber to block the choke since banelings can easily take down a pylon. Same reason why terran generally shouldnt block their choke with supply depots.

Ive never seen any pros throw up a forge before gateway unless they are doing a FE. It's a major delay because you dont even know if your opponent is doing a 6 pool until your scouting probe gets to his base.

What you said probably *would work* against a *6 pool* but I dont see how you can still win if your opponent does something completely different. He will be economically and technologically ahead of your build order is always pylon>forge>cannon every time you play against zerg. I need a build order that is flexible. I think the answer to this is 9 pylon/12gate and if I see a early pool, skip my 14/15 gas and throw up another pylon (at the choke) and possibly a 2gate. This is what Ive seen Whitera do with success in one of his games. If I do NOT see an early pool, I can get my gas and cyber. Every time I've lost to 6 pool Ive always got my assimilator at 14/15 which is a mistake on my part.

If you can show me a replay of this working against a zerg who does NOT 6 pool against a plat/diamond player, I welcome it







. I will gladly admit im wrong. Because you will not know what your opponent is doing until your probe gets there. I always send my scouting probe after 9 pylon against zerg.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 









the winner of blizz's pumpkin contest :O

I love it


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Do you ALWAYS fully block your choke against zerg? I just dont see this working in higher levels.

I dont like delaying my gateway and tech. TBH I dont know how practical it is to throw up a forge first unless you are going for a FE.

So what if you throw up the forge and he does NOT do a 6 pool? This allows him to get his FE or go 7RR.

Im trying to find a better to defend against it . I think the answer could be building a pylon at the choke. But I like to use either 2 gateways or 1gate/1cyber to block the choke since banelings can easily take down a pylon. Same reason why terran generally shouldnt block their choke with supply depots.

Ive never seen any pros throw up a forge before gateway unless they are doing a FE. It's a major delay because you dont even know if your opponent is doing a 6 pool until your scouting probe gets to his base.

What you said probably *would work* against a *6 pool* but I dont see how you can still win if your opponent does something completely different. He will be economically and technologically ahead of your build order is always pylon>forge>cannon every time you play against zerg. I need a build order that is flexible. I think the answer to this is 9 pylon/12gate and if I see a early pool, skip my 14/15 gas and throw up another pylon (at the choke) and possibly a 2gate. This is what Ive seen Whitera do with success in one of his games. If I do NOT see an early pool, I can get my gas and cyber. Every time I've lost to 6 pool Ive always got my assimilator at 14/15 which is a mistake on my part.

If you can show me a replay of this working against a zerg who does NOT 6 pool against a plat/diamond player, I welcome it







. I will gladly admit im wrong. Because you will not know what your opponent is doing until your probe gets there. I always send my scouting probe after 9 pylon against zerg.

Umm yeah obviously my anti-6pool build only works against 6pools... which is easy to scout if you scout at 9... I wouldn't do this if I didn't see a 6 pool.

The only "blind" decision here is to build your first pylon at the ramp. Which I always do against zerg anyway so I don't care.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Umm yeah obviously my anti-6pool build only works against 6pools... which is easy to scout if you scout at 9... I wouldn't do this if I didn't see a 6 pool.

The only "blind" decision here is to build your first pylon at the ramp. Which I always do against zerg anyway so I don't care.

Exactly. It WOULD work against a 6 pool but I only see 6 pools every 1/10 zergs. So it's not really feasible.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Exactly. It WOULD work against a 6 pool but I only see 6 pools every 1/10 zergs. So it's not really feasible.


How is it not feasible? You put down a pylon, scout at 9, see a pool done and only 5 drones, it's a 6 pool, make the forge. That's it. Even if he doesn't attack, he WILL LOSE, hell, even if he doesn't make 6 lings, HE WILL LOSE.

edit: still works against 7 pool. Not worth it against 10 pool.


----------



## ThumperSD

Because my 9 probe does not get there before I am ready to build my gate/forge


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, who wouldn't?









I've probably made more, lol. How did you check?


BigFan 439

you click the post # from the PC game section.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Fixed.









Maybe you're just not paying attention. You can see this kind of forcefield play clearly in games 1 and 4 of the series posted by doomdash.


What series are you talking about? Also, I've only seen so many protoss games, seen many more TvsT and TvsZ and most of the matches I've seen are from GSL2 RO64 since I'm working my way through them. As for the fix, what was wrong with what I stated? I thought the whole point of ff was to split the MM army so that you can spread the damage otherwise, there is a high chance that you will lose the battle due to concussive shells and the ability to kite zealots


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


What series are you talking about?


Nony vs Idra showmatch.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan 439

you click the post # from the PC game section.


Thanks, just checked it. Pretty funny since me, you and thiru take the top 3 and we are in the lead bigtime(780, 446, 441) compared to 183 for 4th spot


----------



## Tchernobyl

Oh snap, 4th is me!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Oh snap, 4th is me!

Yes, indeed! You'll NEVER catch up at the rate we're going


----------



## Tchernobyl

Because you guys keep talking about all kinds of crap as if this was a IM service!


----------



## Nevaziah

Get online its game time ladies!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Because my 9 probe does not get there before I am ready to build my gate/forge

Not sure how that is possible since usually when I see the 6pool I already made a gateway.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Not sure how that is possible since usually when I see the 6pool I already made a gateway.

I think you actually both agree on the same thing.


----------



## DoomDash

In the last State of the Game JP asks what's the most overrated and underrated units. These are the answers.

iNcontrol
Underrated - High Templar "I actually have to show [my students] Feedback, because no one has seen it"
Overrated - Mothership "Oh, yay! He got a Mothership, awwww it's dead."

IdrA
Underrated - Mutalisk "Peaple say they're good, but they're better than that"
Overrated - Roach/Ultralisk "People think roaches are better than they are after that 4 range thing"

NoNy
Underrated - Warp Prism "If you have a support bay, the speed uprade's only 100/100 and then they move so fast"
Overrated - Mothership "Same as iNcontrol"

Day[9]
Underrated -Zealot "The Zealot in general, but the Zealot with charge, yeah."
Overrated - Marauder "Marauders ****ing suck. They're good for early game harass but... I'm really surprised people are still talking about the Marauder"

I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:

I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony
Maybe marines > marauders in TvT but in PVT marauders are essential, and they don't do too bad with the shells and stim against those measly 4 range roaches either. Imo it is still the best tier 1.5 unit in the game. It will destroy any unit the same tier or below no problem, with the stalker being it's only tough fight. I think what makes them so deadly is if you are losing against rauders there is no way to retreat some of your army..it's just all dead.


----------



## DoomDash

Marines > Marauders in ever match up IMO. Certainly more important. In TvZ they are OK against roaches, but are generally just to soak up damage. In most situations marines are actually better unless it's like late game hard counters. Day9 talks about how they are pretty much meat shields for marines, and that's pretty much true. Just remember that 2 marines > DPS of 1 marauder even with his bonus, and with out the gas.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Because you guys keep talking about all kinds of crap as if this was a IM service!









lol, well, describe crap? Is posting a replay and stating your strat crap? Getting pointers crap? Discussing strats used by pros crap? Is talking about the different units and their abilities crap? Talking about unit counters crap? I think you get the point, lol









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
In the last State of the Game JP asks what's the most overrated and underrated units. These are the answers.

iNcontrol
Underrated - High Templar "I actually have to show [my students] Feedback, because no one has seen it"
Overrated - Mothership "Oh, yay! He got a Mothership, awwww it's dead."
.....
I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony.

- I disagree with the mutas one. Maybe they are underrated a bit, but, putting a couple of marines+2-3 turrets near your mineral line deters them. I've tried to harass bases and once I've seen a couple of turrets decided against it and tried to find another opening. Point is their cost of 100/100 is a lot considering that 2 marines which cost 100 can take it down. Of course, in groups and with ground support, they are powerful, no doubt about it, but, their gas cost is pretty high IMO.
- I do agree though that the roach is overrated by a lot. While the range did make a difference, it's not as big of a change as many think it is








- Maybe the mothership is overrated, but, the extra time it buys you in a battle can be valuable and can mean the difference between winning and losing. Not too long ago, I played a game with Heezay and we mistimed our attack. I ended up losing all my ultras and slings along with him losing his mothership and stalkers. Had we attacked and used it for cloaking our units, then my ultras would've teared through all the hydras and MMM balls around the time it would've went down giving us the game








- I disagree with the overrated marauders from day9, they are a great unit especially with conscussive shell and stim researched. It makes it that much hard to retreat if you're losing a battle and their damage against armored is phenomenal for a unit of it's tier/size. Yes, 2 marines > 1 marauder but the cost of a marauder along with its hp and damage makes it a viable unit even mid-late game.


----------



## DoomDash

What day9 means is the marauder is almost specifically the marine meat shield, which is true. Conc shell is a great support for marines as well. Marauders themselves are pretty bad though.

As for the Muta comment. Muta's >>> Turrets in any decent number. I find turrets only deter muta for the early game. But again it depends on how much you invest into them. Generally a pack of 12 muta's will take out 3 turrets with out losing 1 muta. I think I may get that armor upgrade though if I see that many.

Also, I'll give you the context that idrA was referring to when he mentioned the roach being over rated. He meant specifically vs Terran because you should ALWAYS go muta, and pretty much never roach. He is basically saying roaches are amazing, with range 4, but still no where near muta amazing. He brought up players like Sen need to ditch roach play for muta because it's that much better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
What day9 means is the marauder is almost specifically the marine meat shield, which is true. Conc shell is a great support for marines as well. Marauders themselves are pretty bad though.

Personally, I still think they are decent units, but, yes, I also agree that they can be used as meat shields for the marines as well. They also counter roaches and stalkers as well as some other units. The fact that they lack AA is probably their biggest weakness. I've seen opponent go mass marauders to which I get mass mutas, lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
As for the Muta comment. Muta's >>> Turrets in any decent number. I find turrets only deter muta for the early game. But again it depends on how much you invest into them. Generally a pack of 12 muta's will take out 3 turrets with out losing 1 muta. I think I may get that armor upgrade though if I see that many.

Also, I'll give you the context that idrA was referring to when he mentioned the roach being over rated. He meant specifically vs Terran because you should ALWAYS go muta, and pretty much never roach. He is basically saying roaches are amazing, with range 4, but still no where near muta amazing. He brought up players like Sen need to ditch roach play for muta because it's that much better.

Well, true, however, you can add a thor and some marines, most zerg players including myself wouldn't think into a base with a couple of turrets, couple of marines and a thor. hmm, I've never actually checked to see how far 12 mutas or so would do because by the time, you take one or two down, your opponent will bring his marines near the cc, so, other than taking down a turret, he hasn't suffered much loss. I do agree that they are great for map control though and for harassement purposes and of course, perform better in numbers







Against terran, going mutas is pretty much a must. They take out a wide range of units such as marauders, tanks, vikings, banshees, etc.... easily. I do think it's a good idea to have a roach or two with the army though, you'll increase your attack strength and they can act as meat shields as well


----------



## DoomDash

Well roaches are needed, idrA just said to muta first







.

Yeah I mean its suicide to attack into turrets, marines, AND thors. I'm only talking when using muta's intelligently, aka when he isn't sitting back on defense.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well roaches are needed, idrA just said to muta first







.

Yeah I mean its suicide to attack into turrets, marines, AND thors. I'm only talking when using muta's intelligently, aka when he isn't sitting back on defense.

lol, see your point. I do agree I pretty much go mutas every game, however, if I find my opponent has caught on(turrets all over base, lots of marines, thors, etc....) then I ditch mutas and go for a combination of ground units(slings, roaches, some blings, maybe an infestor for FG)


----------



## DoomDash

Well yeah that's what every Z should do. You basically use the Muta's to gain map control, and keep the Terran kinda stuck defending, while you macro up and build a reactionary army. This is why Muta's are powerful in all match ups, for the map control.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

^ thats why I say nerf mutas, but mostly as a joke.

Day9 also said that marines did more damage than mauraders with similar food numbers. Did y'all see nony vs idra game 5? LOL.

The only anti 6 pool is to scout after first pylon, and then adjust accordingly. Blindly total walloff is a bit extreme.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, see your point. I do agree I pretty much go mutas every game, however, if I find my opponent has caught on(turrets all over base, lots of marines, thors, etc....) then I ditch mutas and go for a combination of ground units(slings, roaches, some blings, maybe an infestor for FG)









...or try just...making more mutas.
Mutas are really really really really good. When you start getting to 15-20+ mutas they start becoming unstoppable.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
...or try just...making more mutas.
Mutas are really really really really good. When you start getting to 15-20+ mutas they start becoming unstoppable.

Not if you don't magic box them against thors or if your opponent masses marines. They are good but no opponent in their right mind would make you mass them as well


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Not sure how that is possible since usually when I see the 6pool I already made a gateway.

I agree


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Not if you don't magic box them against thors or if your opponent masses marines. They are good but no opponent in their right mind would make you mass them as well









Against protoss, I meant. Even if they mass blink stalkers you can just straight-up attack it and win.


----------



## ThumperSD

Bring back corsairs!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Bring back corsairs!

and valks plz. I loved valks. Take away my thor splash for all i care if you make vikings have the same AA as valks.


----------



## EmMure

nerf marine mass


----------



## Tchernobyl

Bring back lurkers gorramnit!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Against protoss, I meant. Even if they mass blink stalkers you can just straight-up attack it and win.


With enough mutas, yes, you'll be able to take on stalkers, but, with blink stalkers, you can get a hit, blink away, get another hit, then rinse and repeat. If you focus fire, you'll be able to take out a lot of mutas before finally losing your stalkers. My point is with micro, you will probably take down a lot of mutas before your stalkers are gone. Storm works wonders against them as well









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Bring back corsairs!



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


and valks plz. I loved valks. Take away my thor splash for all i care if you make vikings have the same AA as valks.


I thought corsairs were pretty cool and their disruption web was fantastic to use, however, I hated valks. Personally, never used them at all in BW. If vikings became valks, then they'll likely hard counter mutas with their range and damage, although, that would have to change if they are to make them valks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


nerf marine mass


lol, come on, it's not that bad. Colossi with zealots will take them down easily







For zerg, blings and for terrans, tanks+MM


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


Bring back lurkers gorramnit!


This too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
With enough mutas, yes, you'll be able to take on stalkers, but, with blink stalkers, you can get a hit, blink away, get another hit, then rinse and repeat. If you focus fire, you'll be able to take out a lot of mutas before finally losing your stalkers. My point is with micro, you will probably take down a lot of mutas before your stalkers are gone. Storm works wonders against them as well









I thought corsairs were pretty cool and their disruption web was fantastic to use, however, I hated valks. Personally, never used them at all in BW. If vikings became valks, then they'll likely hard counter mutas with their range and damage, although, that would have to change if they are to make them valks.

lol, come on, it's not that bad. Colossi with zealots will take them down easily







For zerg, blings and for terrans, tanks+MM









You forgot infestors. Dude you need to use infestors they are gosu.

As for the Lurker, yes bring them back and replace the dumb baneling!


----------



## burwij

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *DoomDash*   replace the dumb baneling!  
Did someone say banelings?

  
 You Tube


----------



## ThumperSD

I also thought valks lacked in damage power... But I do remember them doing the same damage per hit as corsair (I think). Corsair had better dps. Valks I believe had a bigger splash radius though. Probably better suited against magic box mutas than corsairs.

But the one unit I REALLY want to see come back is the lurker... even though they would annihilate my zealots. I won so many games with lurker drops.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Did someone say banelings?


Frickin Banelings.


----------



## burwij

On a side note, BoxeR to get sponsored for $180,000?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=165923

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Am...8&image=Submit

Time to play 1v1 for 15 hours per day.


----------



## DoomDash

<3 Boxer.

BTW if any unit should come back its the reaver. By far cooler than the lurker. I'd honestly play Protoss again.


----------



## EmMure

just did a 107 sbanelings rush his base went boom lol


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
<3 Boxer.

BTW if any unit should come back its the reaver. By far cooler than the lurker. I'd honestly play Protoss again.









Give boxer's nuts some air already!


----------



## TheReciever

Scan + Nuke = Fun lol Where the &%$# is the damn ghost at?!?!


----------



## thiru

Vortex + nuke = Fun Where the (%^&^(&%& did my army go?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*









Give boxer's nuts some air already!


Negative. He will play better if I keep his nuts warm.


----------



## EmMure

terran is the least skillful race,mmm ball gg mm ball with 3 thors gg.


----------



## DoomDash

Lols. Far from the truth. Even idrA said Terran and Zerg are the hardest races to play in SCII, equally... now who does that leave?

MMM does destroy newbs though. Are you a newb?

Look how much more micro is required anywhere past mid-game for Terran.


----------



## EgoProxy

and the pros still do it! don't be fooled by the replay's apm count. because of the difference between faster and real, the actual apm displayed by replays is actually higher. That said, I get carpal tunnel and mini brain strokes from trying to macro mid to late game as terran


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah because we need to do it, and we wish we didn't. I hate bio but metal kinda sucks in lots of situations, especially vs Protoss.


----------



## EmMure

idra is a one track mind,he doesnt play differnt styles EVER,he plays zerg the same way everytime,and terran is the same almost allways 2 rax mass marines then air or med's oh look gg we won we is pro's guys


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


idra is a one track mind,he doesnt play differnt styles EVER,he plays zerg the same way everytime,and terran is the same almost allways 2 rax mass marines then air or med's oh look gg we won we is pro's guys


You must not watch any SCII games.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lols. Far from the truth. Even idrA said Terran and Zerg are the hardest races to play in SCII, equally... now who does that leave?

MMM does destroy newbs though. Are you a newb?

Look how much more micro is required anywhere past mid-game for Terran.


I've seen pros lose to MMM too.


----------



## EmMure

i watchd plenty of mlg and some of the msi tourney ,terran is just 2 much of a faceroll race to me,mararauder's with con cuss esp.idk maybe i need to stop playing rts lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I've seen pros lose to MMM too.


I didn't say that they don't lose to MMM, but they certainly aren't as effective as they are at low level.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i watchd plenty of mlg and some of the msi tourney ,terran is just 2 much of a faceroll race to me,mararauder's with con cuss esp.idk maybe i need to stop playing rts lol


Marauder is stupid good for the 100/25 price. I think some people are trying to be fashionably contrarian by saying marauder sucks. It doesn't. And mutas are great if you macro like a pro, in which case the 100/100 price tag is not a big deal. For everybody else mutas are expensive.


----------



## DoomDash

If you play Terran, you know its all about the Marine. Seriously, Marauders are a one trick pony, and often times hurt more than help.

We aren't kidding when we tell you this.


----------



## EmMure

forreal,terran is faceroll,i just played a game and won with a easy mmm ball and my eco was great,the kid tried to stalker push me and my 5 mara's destoryed the 8 stalkers he had


----------



## DoomDash

He sounds awful. He deserved to lose.


----------



## thiru

I'm protoss platinum and I think marauders are strong, but protoss responses to marauders are STRONG too. The thing is to survive (IF the other player goes 3 rax rush, otherwise it's much easier) until you get colossi/HT/immortal or simply use good FF.


----------



## EmMure

clearly wasnt cause i gained like 8 places in rank after the win


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


clearly wasnt cause i gained like 8 places in rank after the win


Any protoss who goes pure stalker against terran is bad.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


clearly wasnt cause i gained like 8 places in rank after the win


Rank does not mean good. I've played some horrible 1300+ Diamond Protoss players. Like, seriously I thought they belonged in gold.


----------



## EmMure

my point still stand's the power of a mmm and mm is not justifiable with the low amount u pay for it


----------



## DoomDash

My point still stands, that you are wrong.


----------



## EmMure

you play terran of course ur gonna say that lol


----------



## DoomDash

No, I'm just right.


----------



## EmMure

anger,in this one i sense.


----------



## DoomDash

No you'll know if I'm angry, because I'll QQ in this thread!


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


you play terran of course ur gonna say that lol


I don't want to imply anything about your level of play, but for the purpose of this post I'm going to assume you're in Bronze/Silver/Gold. There's nothing wrong with that as everyone starts somewhere, but we're clearly not talking about 1800+ Diamond strategy.

At lower levels of play you need to be much less concerned with unit composition and "counters" and more concerned with learning to play efficiently. MMM seems so overpowered at lower levels of play because it's easy to pull off and it enables the T player to *spend his money efficiently*. If you're playing Protoss and trying to do some poorly-timed tech build that leaves you with 1000 minerals and 0 gas, you're going to lose to almost every early push no matter the unit composition - whether it's 15 zerglings and 5 roaches or 10 marines and 5 marauders. Had those 1000 minerals been 8-10 more zealots you're looking at a much different story.

Forget unit composition and focus entirely on:

- constantly building workers
- not getting supply blocked
- keeping your minerals below 500 at all times; you should be more or less broke for the entire game when it comes to gas

If you're *still* losing at that point you'll need to look at your strategy and you can start talking about individual units and how to deal with them.

Lots of players like to use the marauder as a built-in post-excuse when they lose when it's likely a macro-related issue. When I play TvP, I sometimes do a 3-rax timing push with both stim and concussive at the 7 minute mark with about 12 marines and 5-6 marauders. Good players can hold it off with solid forcefields; bad players die and immediately cry about MM. Make sure there's not another underlying issue there that needs to be dealt with.


----------



## DoomDash

Good post.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


I don't want to imply anything about your level of play, but for the purpose of this post I'm going to assume you're in Bronze/Silver/Gold. There's nothing wrong with that as everyone starts somewhere, but we're clearly not talking about 1800+ Diamond strategy.

At lower levels of play you need to be much less concerned with unit composition and "counters" and more concerned with learning to play efficiently. MMM seems so overpowered at lower levels of play because it's easy to pull off and it enables the T player to *spend his money efficiently*. If you're playing Protoss and trying to do some poorly-timed tech build that leaves you with 1000 minerals and 0 gas, you're going to lose to almost every early push no matter the unit composition - whether it's 15 zerglings and 5 roaches or 10 marines and 5 marauders. Had those 1000 minerals been 8-10 more zealots you're looking at a much different story.

Forget unit composition and focus entirely on:

- constantly building workers
- not getting supply blocked
- keeping your minerals below 500 at all times; you should be more or less broke for the entire game when it comes to gas

If you're *still* losing at that point you'll need to look at your strategy and you can start talking about individual units and how to deal with them.

Lots of players like to use the marauder as a built-in post-excuse when they lose when it's likely a macro-related issue. When I play TvP, I sometimes do a 3-rax timing push with both stim and concussive at the 7 minute mark with about 12 marines and 5-6 marauders. Good players can hold it off with solid forcefields; bad players die and immediately cry about MM. Make sure there's not another underlying issue there that needs to be dealt with.


Well general unit composition is kinda important. It's kinda hard to beat MMM with just stalkers or something. Unless you're a blink micro master.


----------



## EmMure

i dont really suffer from those issues most of the time,and i do have the basic's of the game down..i held top 4 for the first month in bronze(i know nothing hard) but i still did it and was able to win enough games and play well to hold the spot,but then it changes with the mmm/mm showing up all the time and random bs builds


----------



## DoomDash

No comment.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i dont really suffer from those issues most of the time,and i do have the basic's of the game down..i held top 4 for the first month in bronze(i know nothing hard) but i still did it and was able to win enough games and play well to hold the spot,but then it changes with the mmm/mm showing up all the time and random bs builds


If you're in bronze/silver/gold/platinum, then by definition you don't have the basics of the game mastered. Basics being macro (described by the 3 points by burwij), scouting (looking out for tech and expansions) and general unit composition.

Once again, I am in platinum and I consider that I have none of these basics covered. But macro allowed me to beat random builds, cheese, gimmicky tactics and even the dreaded MMM balls.


----------



## EmMure

i give up,i hate this game and blizzard..thank god for unistalls


----------



## DoomDash

That's a poor attitude and you'll never get good at anything quitting or blaming it on marauders/blizzzard. Survival of the fittest.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i give up,i hate this game and blizzard..thank god for unistalls


Ladder's supposed to give you a challenge... man up and get better or play terran yourself (you changed from zerg to protoss recently right? then you're probably not settled on a race).


----------



## EmMure

i was protoss before i went to zerg.rts just isnt for me ill stick to my fps,and i wasnt trying to get good at sc2 really it was a break from fps but it only made me madder lol


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i was protoss before i went to zerg.rts just isnt for me ill stick to my fps,and i wasnt trying to get good at sc2 really it was a break from fps but it only made me madder lol


thats not how you look at it man. sc2 is really to fun to be giving up that easily. Watch some replays on youtube and you will get some idea what to do or when to build. SO far sc2 is been pretty balanced even though they have been nerfing terran so much =/


----------



## EmMure

believe me ive done that,i acutally use alot of my opener's from huk,minus his redic macro and micro..hell i even used his mothership rush once lol


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


believe me ive done that,i acutally use alot of my opener's from huk,minus his redic macro and micro..hell i even used his mothership rush once lol


just from there, i can see you are not getting the game down yet. How in the world is that a mothership rush. Mothership 1) takes a lot of tech to build 2) its a support unit.

If you are playing zerg, watch more basic zerg tutorial videos. you can either 14 hatch/pool if your opp isn't rushing or 7 pool rush or go 13 pool then roach rush.


----------



## EmMure

im toss,uve never seen a mothership rush?go youtube the hukvs drewbie mothership rush its funny


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lazi punk*


just from there, i can see you are not getting the game down yet. How in the world is that a mothership rush. Mothership 1) takes a lot of tech to build 2) its a support unit.

If you are playing zerg, watch more basic zerg tutorial videos. you can either 14 hatch/pool if your opp isn't rushing or 7 pool rush or go 13 pool then roach rush.


He means quickly teching to mothership.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you play Terran, you know its all about the Marine. Seriously, Marauders are a one trick pony, and often times hurt more than help.

We aren't kidding when we tell you this.


Most units in sc2 are a 1 trick pony. SC2 is just a huge game of rock/paper/scissors. If marauders "hurt more than help" you wouldn't see them in 95% of terran games.

Hatchery/Nexus health was increased in direct response to marauder insta-gib.

This was my earlier response to rauder QQ:

Quote:



Though I agree that Terran currently needs a powerful unit like the rauder to provide firepower, I find that this unit is far too pivotal and degrades the diversity of the game. SC2 has been hugely successful in diversifying zerg and protoss armies, but you almost NEVER see a terran going without marauders.

When facing a terran opponent, I'm 95% sure he'll be massing rauders. Even when I work up a direct counter, I can still end up losing and I think that's lame.

Blizzard needs to tone down rauders and provide terran with alternate strategies. Enough said.


And @ people quoting pros as though their opinion is a final matter.

Remember when those GSL pros said protoss had the advantage in PVT? Everyone was using this as "proof" that protoss had the upper hand. Overall PVT score by the end of the tournament was 2-8.

Though I respect these brilliant minds, it's more important to learn why they're saying this, rather than mindlessly accepting a statement like "terran is too strong, zerg is too strong, protoss is too strong".


----------



## thiru

On another controversial SC topic, APM!

Try this game and see how it feels to be dishing out constant high APM. It's not easy and it's freaking uncomfortable lol

edit:
My first try (hand's too tired to do it again lol):

score: 6200
Aiming: 49%
APM: 225


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EgoProxy*


and the pros still do it! don't be fooled by the replay's apm count. because of the difference between faster and real, the actual apm displayed by replays is actually higher.


I think this may be incorrect. Someone confirm?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I think this may be incorrect. Someone confirm?


If the APM displayed by the replay info tab is at game speed (which is faster than real time speed), then it means the real life APM is lower, yes.

If it shows 60 actions per minute (or per 60 in game seconds), it means about 60 actions per 40 real life seconds. So 60 APM in replays becomes 40 APM in reality.

I think. Lol.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If the APM displayed by the replay info tab is at game speed (which is faster than real time speed), then it means the real life APM is lower, yes.

If it shows 60 actions per minute (or per 60 in game seconds), it means about 60 actions per 40 real life seconds. So 60 APM in replays becomes 40 APM in reality.

I think. Lol.


I understand, but wouldn't blizzard programmers take this into account, and calculate true apm?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I understand, but wouldn't blizzard programmers take this into account, and calculate true apm?


edit: You'd have to verify by getting a metronome and measuring yourself lol. Or create a mouse macro that clicks every X seconds.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You'd have to check by playing a replay at different speeds and seeing if the APM counter changes. I doubt it though. You're not going to see the APM go down almost nothing when you switch to 8x speed lol.


Replays just display the in-game recorded apm regardless of the speed at which the replay is played. We'd have to play a game at normal speed, intentionally do 1 realtime apm, then play at faster and do 1 realtime apm. Then watch replays and see how apm was recorded.

Back on topic, I see some players making a direct relation between apm and skill. This is completely wrong, because most actions are just spam, and the player's attention should be focused on useful actions instead. I think it was Nazgul who trained specifically to reduce spam apm in favor of useful apm. He got his apm down to 90 or something, but was still considered one of the best.

edit: saw your post after this one.


----------



## Mach 5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


im toss,uve never seen a mothership rush?go youtube the hukvs drewbie mothership rush its funny


Google day9 daily.


----------



## Nevaziah

I played the game and got:

Aiming: 75%
Clicks: 308
Score : 5800
Mouse skill: 6876

IT actually helps clicking but if you are using hotkeys for spells and abilities, you have to keep that in mind too


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lols. Far from the truth. Even idrA said Terran and Zerg are the hardest races to play in SCII, equally... now who does that leave?

MMM does destroy newbs though. Are you a newb?

Look how much more micro is required anywhere past mid-game for Terran.


Idra also said terrna players should apologize for playing their race. He also called half of the top players bad and was one of the first pros crying imba. So what? White-ra said protoss is the hardest to play and requires the most micro in one of the interviews.

If protoss is so easy to play why there's no more players playing it for easy money? Why they struggle so much with their hard to play Terran if they could just steamroll everyone playing protoss without even using skill and go home with $80000? Why, for the second season in a row, no protoss can make it beyond ro8 in gsl and it's totally dominated by terran?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Any protoss who goes pure stalker against terran is bad.


I remember tester going pure stalkers against TheStC and winning. He's so bad.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


On another controversial SC topic, APM!

Try this game and see how it feels to be dishing out constant high APM. It's not easy and it's freaking uncomfortable lol

edit:
My first try (hand's too tired to do it again lol):

score: 6200
Aiming: 49%
APM: 225


This has absolutely nothing to do with SC though and is more aimed at FPS players. Try multitasking trainer custom map, it's actually quite useful and should increase your effective APM significantly.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Idra also said terrna players should apologize for playing their race.


I pretty much agree with that. Terrans are super tough when they to basic tried-and-true strategies. Aggressive and well-executed MMM + siege tank play still pwns me as a Z player and I see the same stuff pwning pro zerg players. Terrans are far more beatable when they get creative and deviate from proven formulas. I don't know why Terrans ever go away from the basic formulas. They work so damn well, even when the Z player sees it coming. Why would you do anything else?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You forgot infestors. Dude you need to use infestors they are gosu.

As for the Lurker, yes bring them back and replace the dumb baneling!


Well, I've started to use them recently, just not on a daily basis. Banelings aren't dumb, they just provide a new way to play zerg, although, I do want lurkers back









Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Did someone say banelings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0b1Gu45AeU












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BTW if any unit should come back its the reaver. By far cooler than the lurker. I'd honestly play Protoss again.


They should BOTH come back, reaver were awesome for drops, GG workers, lol and then shuttle out of there before support comes. They were pretty devastating as well especially due to their splash and if they have support









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


idra is a one track mind,he doesnt play differnt styles EVER,he plays zerg the same way everytime,and terran is the same almost allways 2 rax mass marines then air or med's oh look gg we won we is pro's guys


You make it sound like 2 rax mass marines is hard to deal with? Just go make banes and use slings for distraction. I've had an opponent go for mass marines, 72 if I recall. My 30-40 banes decimated ALL his marines and I had some left







Having said that, one bane is 50/25 which is more than one marine, so, it's somewhat on par if you factor in the gas and how limited you are unlike minerals









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Any protoss who goes pure stalker against terran is bad.


Definitely, marauders > stalkers.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm protoss platinum and I think marauders are strong, but protoss responses to marauders are STRONG too. The thing is to survive (IF the other player goes 3 rax rush, otherwise it's much easier) until you get colossi/HT/immortal or simply use good FF.


Getting good ff can be pretty difficult especially if you are new to protoss and you are constantly facing MMM in the lower leagues









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No you'll know if I'm angry, because I'll QQ in this thread!












Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i give up,i hate this game and blizzard..thank god for unistalls


Come on, you make it sound like it's impossible. Why not give Terran a try, maybe as thiru suggested, it's your race and not P or Z? Alternatively, you can go random like me to get a chance to play ALL three races









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I pretty much agree with that. Terrans are super tough when they to basic tried-and-true strategies. Aggressive and well-executed MMM + siege tank play still pwns me as a Z player and I see the same stuff pwning pro zerg players. Terrans are far more beatable when they get creative and deviate from proven formulas. I don't know why Terrans ever go away from the basic formulas. They work so damn well, even when the Z player sees it coming. Why would you do anything else?


MMM+siege tanks is difficult. I think the best way to defeat this combo is to attack them WHILE on the move. If you can use slings+mutas to take down tanks which lag behind the army(I think their speed is lower, correct me if I'm wrong) then slings+blings will easily take down an MMM ball. The main reason that Blizzard nerfed tanks was that 7-8 tanks would become almost impossible to stop especially if he pushes with them slowly









On a side note, I played my first TvsT game yesterday. I saw an opening and took out his exp. Then I decided to contain him and well, while I did win, I did make some fatal errors that could've cost me the game


----------



## BigFan

Replay for TvsT game: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...elnaga-caverns
Still have to work on my micro there and obviously macro as well as timings, Enjoy


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
MMM+siege tanks is difficult. I think the best way to defeat this combo is to attack them WHILE on the move. If you can use slings+mutas to take down tanks which lag behind the army(I think their speed is lower, correct me if I'm wrong) then slings+blings will easily take down an MMM ball. The main reason that Blizzard nerfed tanks was that 7-8 tanks would become almost impossible to stop especially if he pushes with them slowly









On a side note, I played my first TvsT game yesterday. I saw an opening and took out his exp. Then I decided to contain him and well, while I did win, I did make some fatal errors that could've cost me the game









"Difficult" is an understatement. Well-executed MMM + tank aggression pwns pro zerg players, so what chance do I have? I ain't exactly a professional-calibre player.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
"Difficult" is an understatement. Well-executed MMM + tank aggression pwns pro zerg players, so what chance do I have? I ain't exactly a professional-calibre player.

Maybe a bit of an understatement, however, you're also assuming that the T player is a pro which is not the case. Again, if you constantly spread creep and you watch the map using towers as well as a zergling infront of their base, etc.... then you'll know when they are pushing out, thus, attack them WHILE they are moving. Since you attacked them suddenly, by the time they respond, their tank are pretty much gone and so is a portion of their army. Then just rebuilt your army up provided you have the resources and provided your army was wiped out in the attack. I can't count how many times opponent have tried to march an army into my base(thors+marines for example) and I was monitoring their movement since they left their base , so, I just sent in my blings to take the marines while I waited for the thors at my base to take them down with roaches. Again, your surprise attack will be unexpected in more cases than not which means you get an advantage especially if you have a lot of blings which will decimate the MMM ball and mutas will take down tanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
Most units in sc2 are a 1 trick pony. SC2 is just a huge game of rock/paper/scissors. If marauders "hurt more than help" you wouldn't see them in 95% of terran games.

Hatchery/Nexus health was increased in direct response to marauder insta-gib.

This was my earlier response to rauder QQ:

And @ people quoting pros as though their opinion is a final matter.

Remember when those GSL pros said protoss had the advantage in PVT? Everyone was using this as "proof" that protoss had the upper hand. Overall PVT score by the end of the tournament was 2-8.

Though I respect these brilliant minds, it's more important to learn why they're saying this, rather than mindlessly accepting a statement like "terran is too strong, zerg is too strong, protoss is too strong".

Pros still think P > T. They talk about how Protoss players are just not very good / reliable in the last state of the games. They just end up doing sloppy crap to give away matches, where so far Zergs and Terrans have been playing much better. Not that it matters, and I honestly don't have a problem with the match up besides vs late game templars.


----------



## BigFan

^^ To illustrate my point(to Lucas), played a custom against a Plat Z who was playing as P. I attacked him once I had seige tanks with a small MM force(more marines than marauders) easily taking his exp down and had him contained. I didn't have any medivacs unfortunately and when I decided to move in(didn't wait too long), I found out that he had massed 3-4 carriers making my army pretty useless. I was able to pump out lots of marines+some thors along with having turrets around my base and repelled his attack killing all 5 carriers with just marines+thors, although, it took forever and set me back economically and left me with almost no army.
Point is, MMM is strong, but, you can counter it if you get some zealots+stalkers+sentries+immortals. Sentry to ff ramp or to split army in half, immortal to take down marauders easy(50 damage per hit), stalkers to pick off marines/marauders stuck from afar so as to get less hits and zealots to do some damage and act as meat shields. True 4 unit combo instead of 2-3 for MMM ball, but, it's all about timing(ff) as well. If you can take down the medivacs first, then it's even easier to deal with.
For zerg, blings and slings go great against MMM regardless of the medivacs. Just get a surround using slings from the opposite side and then rush in with blings+small number of slings first. I played zerg only against T, P and other Z players and I can tell you that at first I thought MM and MMM were really difficult to deal with but once I started using slings+blings, I've had a much easier time surviving the first battle and then teching up and most cases than not, winning the game








As for terran, well, tanks along with a small MM force will do fine


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://www.lefigaro.fr/environnement...n-des-mers.php

French article.. a "census" of marine species has been going on for the last ten years, with 20,000 new species discovered, and hundreds of thousands to discover...

Off topic, you might say?










Tell me you recognize this.









They're already here. On earth.

We're ****ed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
http://www.lefigaro.fr/environnement...n-des-mers.php

French article.. a "census" of marine species has been going on for the last ten years, with 20,000 new species discovered, and hundreds of thousands to discover...

Off topic, you might say?










Tell me you recognize this.









They're already here. On earth.

We're ****ed.









I'm trying to recognize it, is it larvae?


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/zerg/

it's the zerg symbol, you fool!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
This has absolutely nothing to do with SC though and is more aimed at FPS players. Try multitasking trainer custom map, it's actually quite useful and should increase your effective APM significantly.

I only posted that so people can just _feel_ what dishing out high APM for a couple of minutes feels like. It's really uncomfortable and tiring.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/zerg/

it's the zerg symbol, you fool!










lol, no need to be some, what's the word excited. Either way, I still think it looks like larvae









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I only posted that so people can just _feel_ what dishing out high APM for a couple of minutes feels like. It's really uncomfortable and tiring.

Even then, more practice = reduce uncomfortability and tiredness


----------



## yks

state of the game is the best, but you got to take it with a grain of salt. they're giving you things from the NA player perspective.

there are similar things in Euro/KR and they have varying opinions. but obviously i listen to state of the game more cause of the language barrier. i rather load up the mp3 and listen while doing other things.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
state of the game is the best, but you got to take it with a grain of salt. they're giving you things from the NA player perspective.

there are similar things in Euro/KR and they have varying opinions. but obviously i listen to state of the game more cause of the language barrier. i rather load up the mp3 and listen while doing other things.

Personally, never listened to state of the game, although, it does sound interesting


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I only posted that so people can just _feel_ what dishing out high APM for a couple of minutes feels like. It's really uncomfortable and tiring.

Fortunately maintaining high APM in SC2 doesn't consist of clicking floating blobs and big part of it comes from keyboard actions rather than mouse. It's also more about ability to multitask, rather than having amazing mouse precision. So playing this game doesn't feel like playing sc2 with high apm at all.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Fortunately maintaining high APM in SC2 doesn't consist of clicking floating blobs and big part of it comes from keyboard actions rather than mouse. It's also more about ability to multitask, rather than having amazing mouse precision. So playing this game doesn't feel like playing sc2 with high apm at all.

I think APM is a *bit* overrated. It's important in the sense that you can perform multiple actions at once but in the first part of the game when you are still building and making units, there is no point to have 200 APM or so which means that its mostly related to spamming it. It's about 5 minutes in the game or so when you have multiple structures, a small army and you are exploring the map at which point 200 or more makes more sense to me at least


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Fortunately maintaining high APM in SC2 doesn't consist of clicking floating blobs and big part of it comes from keyboard actions rather than mouse. It's also more about ability to multitask, rather than having amazing mouse precision. So playing this game doesn't feel like playing sc2 with high apm at all.

Dude all I'm trying to share is how it feels to click quickly for a couple of minutes with your mouse. I could show you the same with a keyboard, but that's called typing so I'll leave it to your imagination.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Dude all I'm trying to share is how it feels to click quickly for a couple of minutes with your mouse. I could show you the same with a keyboard, but that's called typing so I'll leave it to your imagination.

All I'm saying is that it's nothing like starcraft though.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
All I'm saying is that it's nothing like starcraft though.

Well obviously the only things they have in common is moving the mouse and clicking...


----------



## BigFan

Funny pics:

















Gotta say it's interesting how the marines, zerglings and the tech lab used to look. I do like how the zerglings look, but, not the other two


----------



## poroboszcz

Oh damn, Nevaziah surpassed me on the ladder. Gotta find some time to fix it


----------



## burwij

ZvZ makes me want to punch babies.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


ZvZ makes me want to punch babies.


Why do you think I quit Zerg? I used to play them.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Bigfan might that be the combined reactor tech lab?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pros still think P > T. They talk about how Protoss players are just not very good / reliable in the last state of the games. They just end up doing sloppy crap to give away matches, where so far Zergs and Terrans have been playing much better. Not that it matters, and I honestly don't have a problem with the match up besides vs late game templars.


LOL

Dont let Huk's inconsistent play make you feel the same about all protoss players


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


ZvZ makes me want to punch babies.


It's not that bad, really. I mean yes, it's a constant slings+blings for a while, but, if you can get the upper hand and get some mutas before him it's pretty much gg. Blings are also great against mass slings, blings and hydras, so, you only have to worry about mutas(leave some hydras+ 1-2 spores in base) as well as BLs and ultralisks which I haven't seen yet against another Z. I'll admit thought that the ZvsZ games I've played, it's a struggle to win and my APM usually reaches the highest I've ever hit(81-82 avg by end of game) but when you win at the end, it feels great









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Why do you think I quit Zerg? I used to play them.


So, you're telling me that TvsT or PvsP isn't somewhat similar to ZvsZ? Yes, ZvsZ is more apm intensive due to having to micro your army well to avoid losing all your slings to some blings and fending off the constant attacks especially if your opponent has the upper hand, however, I can only assume TvsT and PvsP are *almost* as irritating since the strategies are similar for the most part









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Bigfan might that be the combined reactor tech lab?


It's quite possible, but, TBH I have no clue. I thought the pic was interesting due to the changes in gfx, good thing they changed the tank one though







If it is the combined reactor tech lab, that's definitely OP, lol, but, seriously, that would mean that you can make any unit in the game twice as fast if you have the income which means MMM is that much faster to make and you would spend less on building structures, since, each barracks, factory, starport,etc.... is like two which means more money for units


----------



## BigFan

Blizzard put up the new race videos as they called:
Link: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1064307#blog
Enjoy!


----------



## DoomDash

Yes I'm telling you that ZvZ is garbage. TvT is like the most methodical slowly played out game. People use nukes to move siege tank lines and hit, ect. Air battles for vision... gets nuts. No 1 base baneling bs. Baneling ruins ZvZ for me. Like I've been saying for ages I just hate the baneling.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

case on point: painuser vs mano1way tvt on deltaq. Siege tank vs siege tank lines with nukes.


----------



## DoomDash

I think it was Jinro. 48~ min game on Delta? That **** was NUTS!!!!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


It's not that bad, really. I mean yes, it's a constant slings+blings for a while, but, if you can get the upper hand and get some mutas before him it's pretty much gg. Blings are also great against mass slings, blings and hydras, so, you only have to worry about mutas(leave some hydras+ 1-2 spores in base) as well as BLs and ultralisks which I haven't seen yet against another Z. I'll admit thought that the ZvsZ games I've played, it's a struggle to win and my APM usually reaches the highest I've ever hit(81-82 avg by end of game) but when you win at the end, it feels great









So, you're telling me that TvsT or PvsP isn't somewhat similar to ZvsZ? Yes, ZvsZ is more apm intensive due to having to micro your army well to avoid losing all your slings to some blings and fending off the constant attacks especially if your opponent has the upper hand, however, I can only assume TvsT and PvsP are *almost* as irritating since the strategies are similar for the most part










Just like Doomdash I picked up a different race for 1v1 just because of ZvZ. In 1400+ diamond, games rarely go past 12 minutes. It's a bling/sling fest and the slightest mistake is GG. I understand that mistakes are what make games, but in PvP and TvT you can afford some mistakes without throwing the game.

In ZvZ, you can lose the game with 1 bad click. It's far too precarious and RNG based, you can lose to a complete noob if he's lucky.

PvP has some pretty good diversity for a mirror match, I'd say. Common strats:

2 Gate proxy
4-5 gate T1 push
3 Gate / Immortal / Colossus tech
Void ray push
DT rush (lol)


----------



## thiru

You forgot korean 4gate


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah PvP is also just way way better than ZvZ. ZvZ is worse than SC1 ZvZ some how. I still to this day swear up and down Zerg is the most fitting race for my play style yet I can't get over how awful ZvZ is.

Also for PvP I've seen Phoenix / Immortal builds. Hard counter to Colossi stalker.

Also those popular korean fast blink stalker, and now white-ra's fast warpgate warp prism timing pushes.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You forgot korean 4gate










You're talking about proxy warps?

I consider those mega cheese really, few ways to counter it easily.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes I'm telling you that ZvZ is garbage. TvT is like the most methodical slowly played out game. People use nukes to move siege tank lines and hit, ect. Air battles for vision... gets nuts. No 1 base baneling bs. Baneling ruins ZvZ for me. Like I've been saying for ages I just hate the baneling.



I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I hate TvT more than I hate . I would rather have ZvZ all day than ONE TvT. With ZvZ, you got quick awesomely played micro war or race to muta war or mineral line box (with evo chambers and spawning pool and queen) than the LOOONG ass terran wall ins with tanks and turrets or thors or the straight up tank+viking mass up and and slow crawl for EVERY FREEKING INCH OF THE FREEKIN MAP. The game gets boring quick. and for saying that one small mistake cant cost you? well, if you unsiege at the wrong time bam, ur gone. Not only is it boring, but the stress level is just as high just by anxiety alone.

Z v Z is a lot more ACTION oriented than TvT, which is why I play this game.

Maybe its because i play random that I fell this way, but to be honest my TvT matchup may not be the greatest since it doesnt happen very often (when im terran, my opponent is usually protoss) but about 99% of the times, this is what happens in TVT

1. Go marine marauders with stim and take out your opponent quick with a drop or a timing push before he gets siege mode

2. BE the one who makes siege tanks and vikings and fight for air superiority while advancing with a handfull of tanks. Eventually when you get more vikings in the air, take out his, THEN proceed to land them in the tank line or in the other`s base. (most maps encourage this than others).

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.....


----------



## DoomDash

Well since you have very little TvT experience, and you are in Platinum ( high or not ), I'm just going to say that you probably aren't familiar enough / good enough at the match up to know how good it is. I play 100% Terran in ladder, and I've had plenty of TvT's, and the match up is far far more dynamic than any other mirror match up period. PvP has recently been coming close, and has gotten much better... but if you like ZvZ you probably just like the game for different reasons than I do.

Go watch Jinro vs ManOfOneway on delta right now, that game is like a work of frickin art.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


With ZvZ, you got quick awesomely played micro war or race to muta war or mineral line box (with evo chambers and spawning pool and queen)

The game gets boring quick. and for saying that one small mistake cant cost you? well, if you unsiege at the wrong time bam, ur gone. Not only is it boring, but the stress level is just as high just by anxiety alone.


You'll get owned with this muta strat in diamond. Only players with inhuman micro can manage to use these kind of builds.

Unsieging tanks is done at the 20 minute mark or whatever, and you can unsiege a few at a time.

A single baneling can blow up an entire zerg army 10 minutes in and finish the match (actually this is how it usually goes down). Slings and blings on creep move REALLY fast so mistakes are easy to make.


----------



## rhed5

I hate all mirror matchups, I do pretty well mindyou.


----------



## thiru

Well guys there's a new kind of PvP cheese... 7pylon 8 gateway... lol. First zealot tries to take out your first pylon at all costs. Not recommended unless you feel really lucky.


----------



## poroboszcz

I hate ZvZ as well. One of the reasons I gave up on playing random. I used to not like TvT either though.

I think TvT has evolved a lot from what it used to be. At lower levels it's still pretty much just tank/viking race, but at higher levels it looks pretty entertaining. Just loook at GSL games.

By the way, how come no one commented on today's games yet?

I feel like boxer didn't really played at his full potential. Maybe he was scared to face fake boxer in the finals and risk being defeated by an impostor?

Anyway Foxer's TvZ seems to be much more solid than Boxer's so the finals are sure going to be interesting.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


PvP has some pretty good diversity for a mirror match, I'd say. Common strats:

2 Gate proxy
4-5 gate T1 push
3 Gate / Immortal / Colossus tech
Void ray push
DT rush (lol)


I like PvP just as much as any other PvX matchups. However 4 gate vs 4 gate can get pretty similar to ZvZ in style and pace. There's also:
3 gate blink stalkers
korean 4 gate
korean 4 gate w/ stalkers
3 gate / stargate
cannon rush








2 gate/forge FE


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Just like Doomdash I picked up a different race for 1v1 just because of ZvZ. In 1400+ diamond, games rarely go past 12 minutes. It's a bling/sling fest and the slightest mistake is GG. I understand that mistakes are what make games, but in PvP and TvT you can afford some mistakes without throwing the game.

In ZvZ, you can lose the game with 1 bad click. It's far too precarious and RNG based, you can lose to a complete noob if he's lucky.

PvP has some pretty good diversity for a mirror match, I'd say. Common strats:

2 Gate proxy
4-5 gate T1 push
3 Gate / Immortal / Colossus tech
Void ray push
DT rush (lol)


You can lose to a click for any of the other races. One bad ff could mean GG if you have mostly stalkers against zealots or if you unseige and your opponent pushes, they'll catch you offguard and take your squad down. My point is, misclicking can be happen in any match-up regardless of the situation and can cause you to lose, so, it's not a valid point. Either way, if you misclick as Z, you can quickly rebuild your forces if you have the resources and larvae









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


You'll get owned with this muta strat in diamond. Only players with inhuman micro can manage to use these kind of builds.

Unsieging tanks is done at the 20 minute mark or whatever, and you can unsiege a few at a time.

A single baneling can blow up an entire zerg army 10 minutes in and finish the match (actually this is how it usually goes down). Slings and blings on creep move REALLY fast so mistakes are easy to make.


A single bane will NOT blow up an entire zerg army unless your whole army is slings and even then, I bait banes to attack by send a sling to them at which point I've seen my opponent lost a couple of his









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I hate all mirror matchups, I do pretty well mindyou.


While I used to hate ZvsZ, I think I'm starting to like them, albeit I haven't had one in a while probably since I only took out Steppes of War map. Mostly T with the occassional Protoss which is annoying now









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes I'm telling you that ZvZ is garbage. TvT is like the most methodical slowly played out game. People use nukes to move siege tank lines and hit, ect. Air battles for vision... gets nuts. No 1 base baneling bs. Baneling ruins ZvZ for me. Like I've been saying for ages I just hate the baneling.


It's not, it's just not your style is all. Air battles are just as nuts with Z due to muta speed, mutas vs mutas is the same as vikings vs vikings. If anything, micro battles are as intensive if not more so than PvsP and TvsT due to the fact that banes are good against slings, blings and hydras







Only reason you hate it is because more people are using them in diamond and you haven't find the perfect strat as a T against it, although, I still think MMM+tanks is more than enough especially due to a tanks splash









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I hate TvT more than I hate . I would rather have ZvZ all day than ONE TvT. With ZvZ, you got quick awesomely played micro war or race to muta war or mineral line box (with evo chambers and spawning pool and queen) than the LOOONG ass terran wall ins with tanks and turrets or thors or the straight up tank+viking mass up and and slow crawl for EVERY FREEKING INCH OF THE FREEKIN MAP. The game gets boring quick. and for saying that one small mistake cant cost you? well, if you unsiege at the wrong time bam, ur gone. Not only is it boring, but the stress level is just as high just by anxiety alone.

Z v Z is a lot more ACTION oriented than TvT, which is why I play this game.

Maybe its because i play random that I fell this way, but to be honest my TvT matchup may not be the greatest since it doesnt happen very often (when im terran, my opponent is usually protoss) but about 99% of the times, this is what happens in TVT

1. Go marine marauders with stim and take out your opponent quick with a drop or a timing push before he gets siege mode

2. BE the one who makes siege tanks and vikings and fight for air superiority while advancing with a handfull of tanks. Eventually when you get more vikings in the air, take out his, THEN proceed to land them in the tank line or in the other`s base. (most maps encourage this than others).

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.....


I have to agree with this perfectly. I'm moving to random soon and I find that ZvsZ are much more action oriented even at my league than TvsT. Maybe at the higher league, TvsT is on the same level as ZvsZ for actions but not sure.
Either way, my first TvsT which I won, involved me using a tank+small MM to take out his exp and box him in. I kept the pressure and build a thor then went in against his MMM+tanks, won the battle and he GG'd







Point is, TvsT and ZvsZ are alike in the strategy departments, but, ZvsZ is more action oriented due to how fast units can be made along with how much micro is needed to prevent them from dying.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well since you have very little TvT experience, and you are in Platinum ( high or not ), I'm just going to say that you probably aren't familiar enough / good enough at the match up to know how good it is. I play 100% Terran in ladder, and I've had plenty of TvT's, and the match up is far far more dynamic than any other mirror match up period. PvP has recently been coming close, and has gotten much better... but if you like ZvZ you probably just like the game for different reasons than I do.

Go watch Jinro vs ManOfOneway on delta right now, that game is like a work of frickin art.


All pro game, including mirror images are exciting to watch, let's leave it as that









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I hate ZvZ as well. One of the reasons I gave up on playing random. I used to not like TvT either though.

I think TvT has evolved a lot from what it used to be. At lower levels it's still pretty much just tank/viking race, but at higher levels it looks pretty entertaining. Just loook at GSL games.

By the way, how come no one commented on today's games yet?

I like PvP just as much as any other PvX matchups. However 4 gate vs 4 gate can get pretty similar to ZvZ in style and pace. There's also:
3 gate blink stalkers
korean 4 gate
korean 4 gate w/ stalkers
3 gate / stargate
cannon rush








2 gate/forge FE


I disagree since in Silver, it's becoming more MMM+tank push which is really hard to deal with if you don't have the army for it. If you are T, at least you can put down your own tanks to prevent them from pushing up. If you are P or Z, then it's much harder to deal with due to the tanks damage. There are probably some similar strats for Z, but, since, some of our units take too long to tech to, we are limited on what to use which is why most use slings+mutas, hydras/roaches or slings+ultras









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well guys there's a new kind of PvP cheese... 7pylon 8 gateway... lol. First zealot tries to take out your first pylon at all costs. Not recommended unless you feel really lucky.


Interesting, really cheesy move though


----------



## Sainesk

I know gear doesn't make you better (usually) but i'm just curious what do some of the best players use? (mainly things like monitor size, keyboard, mouse and headsets)

just interested after hearing in one thread that one of the best players uses a random microsoft mouse even though he/she is sponsored by steelseries and could have any mouse from them for free...


----------



## Nevaziah

Bifan is right. That`s why I went to random. More fun, more dynamic and its not always the same builds everytime. I probably play 3 to 5 1v1 per day and I dont want them to be the same thing!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*Well since you have very little TvT experience, and you are in Platinum ( high or not ), I'm just going to say that you probably aren't familiar enough / good enough at the match up to know how good it is.*

Go watch Jinro vs ManOfOneway on delta right now, that game is like a work of frickin art.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I think TvT has evolved a lot from what it used to be. *At lower levels it's still pretty much just tank/viking race, but at higher levels it looks pretty entertaining*. Just loook at GSL games.


Wait, what?








ZvZ IS a lot more dynamic at the platinium and low level diamond and yes, at lower levels, some things may work that dont work at higher level of play. Look at most players on the thread here. How many of them are diamond? maybe what, 3 or 4? But even yourself Dash, can you honestly say that every player you played against in TvT at your level is capable of most of the tactics we see in TvT games streamed by Husky, HD, Day9 or Tasteless? At the end of the day, we are here to help eachother become better players AND improve make this game more fun/interactive/flavorful , and we become better by improving on where we are at the moment and going step by step.

Im not by ANY MEANS saying TvT doesnt have the potential to be as varied and flavorful, im just saying that by sheer reality, player pool experience, people are a lot less creative because the race has been played soo long and after soo many matches, some strats just get stricken off the list while others move up(cause lets face it, before the reaper nerf there was a LOT more Terran players at my level, BARELY any zerg, and i can probably count on ONE hand how many random players I had played against between august- October)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I know gear doesn't make you better (usually) but i'm just curious what do some of the best players use? (mainly things like monitor size, keyboard, mouse and headsets)

just interested after hearing in one thread that one of the best players uses a random microsoft mouse even though he/she is sponsored by steelseries and could have any mouse from them for free...










It's really, really just a matter of comfort. The only way to find out is try stuff.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I know gear doesn't make you better (usually) but i'm just curious what do some of the best players use? (mainly things like monitor size, keyboard, mouse and headsets)

just interested after hearing in one thread that one of the best players uses a random microsoft mouse even though he/she is sponsored by steelseries and could have any mouse from them for free...










I use the logitech mini-optical mouse and samsung dt-35 keyboard. I believe both are discontinued but back in 2004 this was the standard used by majority of the pros. I know Fruit Dealer and Boxer use Filco Majestouch.


----------



## thiru

Yeah quite a few pros use mechanical keyboards.. Sen and Gretorp use the Steelseries 6v2 and someone else uses a Das Model S.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


*Bifan* is right. That`s why I went to random. More fun, more dynamic and its not always the same builds everytime. I probably play 3 to 5 1v1 per day and I dont want them to be the same thing!

Wait, what?








ZvZ IS a lot more dynamic at the platinium and low level diamond and yes, at lower levels, some things may work that dont work at higher level of play. Look at most players on the thread here. How many of them are diamond? maybe what, 3 or 4? But even yourself Dash, can you honestly say that every player you played against in TvT at your level is capable of most of the tactics we see in TvT games streamed by Husky, HD, Day9 or Tasteless? At the end of the day, we are here to help eachother become better players AND improve make this game more fun/interactive/flavorful , and we become better by improving on where we are at the moment and going step by step.


Who's Bifan? Do I know him?














You pretty much hit the nail on the head. That's the reason I'm going random as well. I love Zerg to death and since I've probably played >125 matches with them(practice+league+custom) I find that they come more naturally to me and I just feel comfortable playing them, however, I find that concentrating on one race, while might help you improve quicker, means that you are pretty limited in terms of strategies utilized and playing random gives you a good idea of other races strats and how to counter them. So far, I find that I picked up Terran quite easily(1vs1 only, still horrible at 2vs2+, lol) while for Protoss, I'm having a harder time mostly since I can't ff well enough and don't usually have a strategy in mind, although, I haven't had any 1vs1 yet, only played some customs against some diamonds, so, that's likely why









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Im not by ANY MEANS saying TvT doesnt have the potential to be as varied and flavorful, im just saying that by sheer reality, player pool experience, people are a lot less creative because the race has been played soo long and after soo many matches, some strats just get stricken off the list while others move up(cause lets face it, before the reaper nerf there was a LOT more Terran players at my level, BARELY any zerg, and i can probably count on ONE hand how many random players I had played against between august- October)


I have no clue what this tank/viking combo is myself, I've never seen it before in my league. Most of my T opponents used to go MM, followed by more MMM and then add in some thors or other units for a different unit composition(marines+thors, marine+hellions+thors, etc....). Recently, I've seen more MM+tank push which IMO are much harder to stop as a zerg due to tanks one-shotting slings and marauders+tanks hard countering roaches, so, Terran players are definitely changing their tactics ATM


----------



## thiru

All the random players I've played against don't really know how to play correctly at least one race and always get raped with it.
And they always cheese when it's a mirror match.

Which is why I love randoms


----------



## Nevaziah

Its weird, im getting this a lot. Everyone I play with in 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 tell me that the random players they play against in 1v1 always cheeze. Its weird because I dont even know HOW to cheese correctly. I have never done cannon rush, i have never done barraks before depot (when it was possible), ive never done 6 pool, ive never canon rushed etc.. I just play the strength of each race: (Protosss - Macro style and the big untoppable unit, Terran - Timing pushes, stim and drops, Zerg - over expanding BIIIG macro and controlling the map)

But Thiru is also right, the fact that I play random weakens some of the strategies per race, but I find that A LOT of the fundimentals are the same for all races, you just gotta watch the map for different things.

Example: pushing while expanding, constantly making wokers, never getting supply blocked, unit placements, retreating at the right times, scouting expansions and tech, intercepting units, harrassing workers, upgrading at the right times, waching the minimap for drops, sneak attacks or warp ins/nydus worms etc...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
I dont even know HOW to cheese correctly. I have never done cannon rush, i have never done barraks before depot (when it was possible), ive never done 6 pool, ive never canon rushed etc..

That's why you are still in platinum.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
I know gear doesn't make you better (usually) but i'm just curious what do some of the best players use? (mainly things like monitor size, keyboard, mouse and headsets)

just interested after hearing in one thread that one of the best players uses a random microsoft mouse even though he/she is sponsored by steelseries and could have any mouse from them for free...









I use the logitech mini-optical mouse and samsung dt-35 keyboard. I believe both are discontinued but back in 2004 this was the standard used by majority of the pros. I know Fruit Dealer and Boxer use Filco Majestouch.

A LOT of pros use the dt-35 keyboard, infact I think the default keyboard @ the GSL qualifiers are the dt-35's but you may switch to your own.

Moon using dt-35: youtube.com/watch?v=NJYwiRE_Kvc
Lynn using steel 7g or 6gV2: youtube.com/watch?v=ETT6IHqR5D4

Fruitdealer, Tester, actually, I think all of the TSL guys use use Filco's w/ Cherry Brown switches. there's a vid for proof of brown switches but its burried in (i think) artosis' vids of the qualifiers. (5 parts of 20min vids each)

nony uses a dt-35.

but keyboard doesn't matter, it's all about comfortability


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL that's right, the pros in diamond all go there cus they know how to 6 pool and cheese.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
LOL that's right, the pros in diamond all go there cus they know how to 6 pool and cheese.

Cheese works great up until ~1400 or so in diamond. From there on you'll see players scouting _much_ better and cheese becomes quite ineffective.

But you still need to be decent to cheese well.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Its weird, im getting this a lot. Everyone I play with in 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 tell me that the random players they play against in 1v1 always cheeze.

It's more or less accepted that random + no "gl hf" = cheese. There are so few random players that everyone tends to generalize









Playing random is kind of a breadth vs. depth situation. You've got 9 different match-ups to worry about as opposed to 3, so you're ultimately not going to have the same depth of strategy in a particular match-up without playing a ton of games. Some players resort to cheese in an attempt to even the gap; most stick with 1-2 general build orders per race and mold them to whatever match-up they're currently playing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I hate TvT more than I hate . I would rather have ZvZ all day than ONE TvT. With ZvZ, you got quick awesomely played micro war or race to muta war or mineral line box (with evo chambers and spawning pool and queen) than the LOOONG ass terran wall ins with tanks and turrets or thors or the straight up tank+viking mass up and and slow crawl for EVERY FREEKING INCH OF THE FREEKIN MAP.

I tried to come up with a thoughtful, well-worded response to this, but the more I thought about ZvZ's Build Order Russian Roulette, the more I wanted to kick a puppy.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
...
I tried to come up with a thoughtful, well-worded response to this, but the more I thought about ZvZ's Build Order Russian Roulette, the more I wanted to kick a puppy.

ACtually that just about sums it up right!









I cant tell you how many times players have attempted to six pool me in zvz or just randomly try to quick expand without scouting what im doing...


----------



## rhed5

What mouse do you guys all use?
My Mini optical's wheel's are broken and I'm looking around for a new one. My disgustingly nasty 6 year old keyboard is still going strong though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
ACtually that just about sums it up right!









I cant tell you how many times players have attempted to six pool me in zvz or just randomly try to quick expand without scouting what im doing...

I've tried to quick expand before myself


----------



## yks

mlg dallas pregame right now. djWHEAT and day9


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
What mouse do you guys all use?
My Mini optical's wheel's are broken and I'm looking around for a new one. My disgustingly nasty 6 year old keyboard is still going strong though.

I'm using Razer Deathadder (the old version) and I think it's really good. (review)

If you're looking for something cheaper, Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 is pretty much the same thing, minus some flashy stuff. As someone above mentioned this is what some pros are using as well.

Cyborg R.A.T 7 is considered one of the best mice at the moment, specifically for gaming. Some people may also recommend Logitech mx518.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
It's not, it's just not your style is all. Air battles are just as nuts with Z due to muta speed, mutas vs mutas is the same as vikings vs vikings. If anything, micro battles are as intensive if not more so than PvsP and TvsT due to the fact that banes are good against slings, blings and hydras







Only reason you hate it is because more people are using them in diamond and you haven't find the perfect strat as a T against it, although, I still think MMM+tanks is more than enough especially due to a tanks splash










No, they are garbage in both TvZ and ZvZ. Blings are lame, and I would think so even if I didn't ever play Terran. Also, you think wrong.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No, they are garbage in both TvZ and ZvZ. Blings are lame, and I would think so even if I didn't ever play Terran. Also, you think wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, here is an opinion! Feel free to dismiss it!


----------



## DoomDash

Fact







.

Anyone watching MLG?


----------



## Tchernobyl

the whole "you think wrong" part is not fact. A large number of your posts feel like trolling, to be quite honest :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
the whole "you think wrong" part is not fact. A large number of your posts feel like trolling, to be quite honest :/

No offense to BigFan, but he has barely even used Infestors / Ultras and suggusted things like Blue Flame Hellions to counter banelings. He is wrong, because MMT does not make banelings "fine". Sure, its my opinion, and I might say it like its fact, but that's just how I roll and I've told you guys before that 90% of the time I'm not even serious. So if you don't like it, either ignore it, or don't take me too seriously.

I certainly have the experience and skill to back up my arguments at least.


----------



## DoomDash

HDstarcraft is playing right now @ MLG







. hard to watch both SCII and Tekken







. I have some Tekken friends there right now.


----------



## thiru

loolol HDStarcraft playing









At least he's high diamond apparently, I heard Husky sucked balls at SC2









edit: LOL HD just killed his own extractor while microing zerlings xD


----------



## DoomDash

I watch HD's live stream sometimes, he is pretty decent.


----------



## vdek

One of my favorite strategies during beta on Metalopolis or Lost Temple was to build two raxs at the corner and fly it into the enemies base. I would still wall off with one rax in the front of my base so I would be able to defend. As soon as they would try to rush I would send my marines in and rape their workers







Can't really do it anymore though, and it's risky against zerg if he sees it. This obviously only works if they spawn right next to you.

Korean 4 gate and 7RR are amazing builds by the way, I've been destroying people with them in 2v2/3v3(Randoms) all day today.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
What mouse do you guys all use?
My Mini optical's wheel's are broken and I'm looking around for a new one. My disgustingly nasty 6 year old keyboard is still going strong though.

I'm using a Razer Diamondback. It's old... and even old I'm using a Sony VIAO keyboard from 1998.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No, they are garbage in both TvZ and ZvZ. Blings are lame, and I would think so even if I didn't ever play Terran. Also, you think wrong.

lol, I like the "you think wrong" part. Again, that was my opinion, just last night, I played against a T who used MMT early on. I lost all my slings+roaches and one hit from his tanks took out 4 blings at once. My point is that if you have enough tanks and lay them away from each other to reduce splash as well as having a decent MMM force spaced out, then you could probably stand up to them easily since you can kite them and use tanks to take them down first. Again, my opinion and once I get some TvsZ played, then I'll be further able to support it







The other thing is that banes are 50/25 and while that doesn't sound like much, take a couple down with one tank shot due to splash means that the tank more than paid for itself. Alternatively you could use thors to absorb all the splash by putting them in the front of your army when attacking and by the time the banes warp around the thors to get to the marines provided that they are micro'd this way, then most will be taken down









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
Ladies and gentlemen, here is an opinion! Feel free to dismiss it!










Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
the whole "you think wrong" part is not fact. A large number of your posts feel like trolling, to be quite honest :/

lol, I have to agree with Tchernobyl on this one, but, you did mention the fact that you do this often, so, I can't say I'm surprised









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No offense to BigFan, but he has barely even used Infestors / Ultras and suggusted things like Blue Flame Hellions to counter banelings. He is wrong, because MMT does not make banelings "fine". Sure, its my opinion, and I might say it like its fact, but that's just how I roll and I've told you guys before that 90% of the time I'm not even serious. So if you don't like it, either ignore it, or don't take me too seriously.

I certainly have the experience and skill to back up my arguments at least.

Well, none of the games I played ever got to the point where I needed ultras, since, they either ended too quickly or I had control of the game, so, I kept pressuring your mutas, slings, roaches, etc.... to win it. No point in wasting money on ultras if my current unit combo is working fine and is more effective. As for banes, I thought that since they were coming from slings, they would still be light and not just biological, so, it was the logical thing to think. Since the last time we talked about infestors, I've been using them more often if I'm able to tech up to them for MMM otherwise, I'll use slings+blings with some roaches for extra damage and meat shields







Another thing you forget is that tanks can one-shot banes and if you get +1 upgrade for attack, they'll one-shot them all the way till the game ends, since, it's 38 base damage against a 35hp(+3 armor unit). I might not have the experience of TvsZ, since, I'm more experienced with ZvsT, ZvsP and ZvsZ, but, soon enough I will and you can bet I'll be trying MMMT against banes to see how far I can go before it stops working if ever









Edit:


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



In terms of blings, I haven't had the chance to watch the foxer video against Zenith I think it was, but, I heard that he was using marines, the unit that banes hard counter and was able to dominate.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Another thing you forget is that tanks can one-shot banes and if you get +1 upgrade for attack, they'll one-shot them all the way till the game ends, since, it's 38 base damage against a 35hp(+3 armor unit). I might not have the experience of TvsZ, since, I'm more experienced with ZvsT, ZvsP and ZvsZ, but, soon enough I will and you can bet I'll be trying MMMT against banes to see how far I can go before it stops working if ever









Edit:


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



In terms of blings, I haven't had the chance to watch the foxer video against Zenith I think it was, but, I heard that he was using marines, the unit that banes hard counter and was able to dominate.




Banelings have 30 health...

And Foxer's marine play requires incredible micro. You can't say "just do that".


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Banelings have 30 health...

And Foxer's marine play requires incredible micro. You can't say "just do that".

lol, I never said to do it as well as he does, I just stated that if you can space your marines a bit, you can greatly reduce their splash and have more surviving







Besides, using marines against banes is pretty much suicidal unless you are baiting them to get within tank range







As for their health, oops, my fault, typo


----------



## DoomDash

Even if you are playing MMMT and having success, the league difference will not prove anything to me. I've done those builds many many times, and I still feel this way very strongly. Honestly I don't care, because I will just become better for having to play harder. That's OK with me. I'm also OK with Z being most likely the strongest right now, as they need players, and being strong will bring them.

I agree with Tchernobyl as well, as I know I'm opinionated. I'm obviously perfectly fine with that







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Even if you are playing MMMT and having success, the league difference will not prove anything to me. I've done those builds many many times, and I still feel this way very strongly. Honestly I don't care, because I will just become better for having to play harder. That's OK with me. I'm also OK with Z being most likely the strongest right now, as they need players, and being strong will bring them.

I agree with Tchernobyl as well, as I know I'm opinionated.

That's my point, when I move up and I will, I plan to give it a try at the higher leagues to see its effect for myself







Personally, I don't think Zerg is as OP as people make it to be, banes have been around since release and the recent patch mostly increased HP of buildings and made roaches become more viable but they are still the same unit as in same hp, damage, movement speed, attack speed, etc..... they can just shoot a bit longer, so, harder to kite with marines but not impossible although not easy either


----------



## DoomDash

It's just that the micro is 10x harder than baneling micro. I don't think Z is mega OP either, just a little easier to play, especially as the game goes on.

Range 4 def screwed a lot of early game T up vs Z. Z always had the advantage late game, but now since there is very little advantage for T early game, it's not balanced out as well late game. This is why Foxer is good because he ends his games vs Z early usually, even though it requires godly micro. T looked broken in the previous patches because T was always winning early. Now it's generally T / Z going back and forth early, but that means Z late game is much much stronger if you had a much more successful econ / easier time holding off harass.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's just that the micro is 10x harder than baneling micro. I don't think Z is mega OP either, just a little easier to play, especially as the game goes on.

I don't agree with this at all. I think your referring to bane vs rine micro?

All marines have to do is stay behind behind marauders, stim, and run behind tanks, gg. Not to mention if you have medevac's overhead your definitely not too concerned.

Banelings are much harder to control. One misclick and it's over. They have to stay on creep, and if you accidentally detonate them on tanks or maruders it's over. You really have to be in a very favorable position for banelings to work out for you in the long run. Even if you take out the terran army all those banes you detonated are not in your army anymore.


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's just that the micro is 10x harder than baneling micro. I don't think Z is mega OP either, just a little easier to play, especially as the game goes on.


thats completely false,zerg is prolly the more complicated race to play in the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, I'm not talking about banelings by themselves either then if you are including Marauders ect. I'm saying banelings with support, are easier to micro than marines with support. Keep in mind especially offensively that banelings with hooks move at the same speed as *Hellions*. Not only that you have to spread them out very quickly, and you can just kinda run past the marauders ect, or do some pretty easy to do flanking / surrounds depending on the map. Then you take into account baneling mines, and infestors could also be an option...

Also same can be said about marines, one miss click and it's over.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
thats completely false,zerg is prolly the more complicated race to play in the game.

I can play Zerg at high level too you know... no they are not. They are the same as Terran
anyway to me. As I've stated before, even top Z's like idrA agree.

Anyway, weather or not we agree.... I'll take this bet with you guys. Within the next 8 months banelings will be nerfed for $30 paypal. Who is down?


----------



## EmMure

idra's playstyle is oneside'd he does the same thing almost everygame,one u have ur micro and macro down pat zerg is easy for newer players its harder

edit:anyone watching mlg?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


idra's playstyle is oneside'd he does the same thing almost everygame,one u have ur micro and macro down pat zerg is easy for newer players its harder

edit:anyone watching mlg?


I am.


----------



## EmMure

alittle disappointed in games so far,havnt seen a toss yet


----------



## yks

Just curious, what league are you again BigFan? I saw doomdash on the ocn sc2ranks page in thiru's sig.

Anyways. Zerg is OP right now, not because of patch changes, although it did help, but because Zerg pros are just figuring things out faster than T/P Pros. But as the game goes on strats will evolve. Marauders owned everything for a long time, now Marauders are ehhhh and only used in select matchups, but did any patch specifically change Marauders? No. Players are just evolving strategies.

Evolving strategies. Evolving strategies. Thats what separates pros from other super high-rated players. The ability to create strategies that everyone else ends up doing.

That's why I think HuK won't do as well in GSL 3; ro32 tops. He's super good, super high-rated but is he inventing strats? No. He's just a very methodical player. (mothership doesnt count)

The ability to hand make strats, like the hours and hours ITR and Cella were practicing together and partially live-streamed. ITR and Cella hand crafted a strat against CheckPrime (TvZ) that made Tastosis go "what the ****?"


----------



## DoomDash

He is currently in Silver.

Also even before last patch Z was beating T 52% to 48% in Diamond.


----------



## yks

Side note, I am watching MLG as well.

Edit: http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/pr...2/open/winners

here are the brackets. took me a while to find them =[


----------



## DoomDash

What a sick line up.


----------



## EmMure

huk left liquid?


----------



## DoomDash

Not that I know of. I don't know why its GosuHuk.


----------



## thiru

Obviously he thinks he's gosu.


----------



## thiru

Apparently someone up in MLG hates to watch Protoss play.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Obviously he thinks he's gosu.


I skipped the first day at D.C, and I see why I did. The first few games were mostly garbage so far. It was comical to see HD try his luck in MLG. His bane micro needs a lot of work. I haven't seen anything even close to GSL yet in terms of the "pro" level.

Routing for Drewbie just cause I played him in a ranked match haha.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I skipped the first day at D.C, and I see why I did. The first few games were mostly garbage so far. It was comical to see HD try his luck in MLG. His bane micro needs a lot of work. I haven't seen anything even close to GSL yet in terms of the "pro" level.

Routing for Drewbie just cause I played him in a ranked match haha.


I've never got to play anyone famous yet.


----------



## yks

Drewbie took game 1 off Haypro, dub-tee-effffffffffff


----------



## DoomDash

who is the second guy casting right now? I know JP is.


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


who is the second guy casting right now? I know JP is.


djWHEAT

http://twitter.com/#!/djwheat


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


who is the second guy casting right now? I know JP is.


The guy on the left? DJ Wheat I think.


----------



## yks

djWHEAT. he has a really popular internet radio/webcam show


----------



## burwij

You guys are slow, step it up


----------



## DoomDash

so JP does state of the game.. for some reason I thought they were the same guy.

im watching tekken as well so i didnt see what they both looked like ( though i know what wheat looks like ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's just that the micro is 10x harder than baneling micro. I don't think Z is mega OP either, just a little easier to play, especially as the game goes on.

Range 4 def screwed a lot of early game T up vs Z. Z always had the advantage late game, but now since there is very little advantage for T early game, it's not balanced out as well late game. This is why Foxer is good because he ends his games vs Z early usually, even though it requires godly micro. T looked broken in the previous patches because T was always winning early. Now it's generally T / Z going back and forth early, but that means Z late game is much much stronger if you had a much more successful econ / easier time holding off harass.


Not sure I agree, since, banes just go for the first target and you have several blowing up at the same marine. It's their splash damage, the fact that MMM ball cluster and their armor of only biological that really saves them from being taken out faster. Reason is if they were armored, marauders+tanks take them out and light means hellions, etc..... I think T/Z going back and forth was exactly what should've been happening, but, again I don't believe that Z's late game is much stronger than T. TBH, I'll much rather have a bc than a BL or an ultralisk. Their dps is 30 and they have good armor(+3 to start) as well as being able to attack air and ground and this doesn't include yamato cannon either which does 300 damage. Major problem is their energy which means that if you are protoss, you can use them feedback against them, but, that's just my opinion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I don't agree with this at all. I think your referring to bane vs rine micro?

All marines have to do is* stay behind behind *marauders, stim, and run behind tanks, gg. Not to mention if you have medevac's overhead your definitely not too concerned.

Banelings are much harder to control. One misclick and it's over. They have to stay on creep, and if you accidentally detonate them on tanks or maruders it's over. You really have to be in a very favorable position for banelings to work out for you in the long run. Even if you take out the terran army all those banes you detonated are not in your army anymore.


Those are my thoughts exactly and more so if your opponent decides to aim them at your marines, you can just stim and run away while the rest of your army picks them and your opponent's units off. You can try sacrificing a marine so that several of them blow up on him, etc.... but I haven't tried this yet







The underlined portion is what *I believe* most people still forget which is that one a bane detonates, it's gone, so, I can't reuse it to attack your base









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes, I'm not talking about banelings by themselves either then if you are including Marauders ect. I'm saying banelings with support, are easier to micro than marines with support. Keep in mind especially offensively that banelings with hooks move at the same speed as *Hellions*. Not only that you have to spread them out very quickly, and you can just kinda run past the marauders ect, or do some pretty easy to do flanking / surrounds depending on the map. Then you take into account baneling mines, and infestors could also be an option...

Also same can be said about marines, one miss click and it's over.

I can play Zerg at high level too you know... no they are not. They are the same as Terran 
anyway to me. As I've stated before, even top Z's like idrA agree.

Anyway, weather or not we agree.... I'll take this bet with you guys. Within the next 8 months banelings will be nerfed for $30 paypal. Who is down?


Misclicks can happen during at a point with any race in the game







For baneling mines, scout or bring a raven along which seems to becoming the norm now, kinda odd since most used to rely on MMM. I don't bet, however, I don't doubt that Blizzard will slightly nerf them, was mostly giving options on countering them









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just curious, what league are you again BigFan? I saw doomdash on the ocn sc2ranks page in thiru's sig.

Anyways. Zerg is OP right now, not because of patch changes, although it did help, but because Zerg pros are just figuring things out faster than T/P Pros. But as the game goes on strats will evolve. Marauders owned everything for a long time, now Marauders are ehhhh and only used in select matchups, but did any patch specifically change Marauders? No. Players are just evolving strategies.

Evolving strategies. Evolving strategies. Thats what separates pros from other super high-rated players. The ability to create strategies that everyone else ends up doing.

That's why I think HuK won't do as well in GSL 3; ro32 tops. He's super good, super high-rated but is he inventing strats? No. He's just a very methodical player. (mothership doesnt count)

The ability to hand make strats, like the hours and hours ITR and Cella were practicing together and partially live-streamed. ITR and Cella hand crafted a strat against CheckPrime (TvZ) that made Tastosis go "what the ****?"


Silver ATM, but, I'm taking my time playing league games(1-2/day sometimes), so, slowly making my way up







Exactly why Zerg is considered OP, since, more strats are being developed, although, T isn't looking too shabby either, it seems that P is what's lacking behind


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


so JP does state of the game.. for some reason I thought they were the same guy.

im watching tekken as well so i didnt see what they both looked like ( though i know what wheat looks like ).


Don't play tekken but just checked out the stream for the hell of it. Did you buy the HD package? Cause it was super blockly for me.


----------



## thiru

I was wondering why Day9's co-caster seemed slightly different between 2 games, then I saw DJWheat and JP side by side and I was like WTH?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

Those are my thoughts exactly

With Zerg macro mechanics banelings are incredibly easy to replace with other units. As long as you exchange armies you will always come out on top in replacement times. That's the problem. It's not that you don't have units left ( although generally muta's will be able to clean up after ), it's that they kind of make the Terran unable to replace units at the rate they need to.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I was wondering why Day9's co-caster seemed slightly different between 2 games, then I saw DJWheat and JP side by side and I was like WTH?









I wish Husky and HD would commentate to mix things up. I like Day9, JP, DJ, but they are lacking excitement alittle. It's almost monotone.


----------



## BigFan

Maybe it's just me, but, I tried watching MLG a while back when someone mentioned Day9 playing on here and I saw a TvsP match. Simply put, all P did was mass 4-5 colossi+zealots+stalkers+sentries and then attack T's base, he GG within a minute or so afterwards. Definitely not the greatest games I've seen, nothing like GSL of course


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Don't play tekken but just checked out the stream for the hell of it. Did you buy the HD package? Cause it was super blockly for me.

Yes it looks ****ty compared to SC. I know or have met half the players at MLG for Tekken. I used to play it competitively.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


With Zerg macro mechanics banelings are incredibly easy to replace with other units. As long as you exchange armies you will always come out on top in replacement times. That's the problem. It's not that you don't have units left ( although generally muta's will be able to clean up after ), it's that they kind of make the Terran unable to replace units at the rate they need to.


Well, for banelings, you need zerglings then you need to morph them so if you attack right after the battle with some marines, you can take some of them down before they finish morphing







I think reactors help a lot in this case, especially if you have a couple of rax with reactors pumping out marines(queueing them up) as you do battle against banes then you can stim->attack your opponent, do some damage and withdraw or continue the attack depending on the units they make. Again, just an opinion, but, I don't see why it wouldn't work, especially since Zerg still has to balance between droning and making units and most don't expect a quick attack after a battle


----------



## DoomDash

mid-to-late game. I've been stressing that in all my arguments. Z doesn't need to drone nearly as hard then, and with a solid income making lings / banes is just too rewarding. I have no problems with banes early.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


mid-to-late game. I've been stressing that in all my arguments. Z doesn't need to drone nearly as hard then, and with a solid income making lings / banes is just too rewarding. I have no problems with banes early.


I see, why not try a sneak attack such as a banshee or two to take down some drones and once they start drone production to replace the dead ones, move in for the kill since they can't make reinforcements right away? Just brainstorming here


----------



## DoomDash

Muta's, queens, ect.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Well, for banelings, you need zerglings then you need to morph them so if you attack right after the battle with some marines, you can take some of them down before they finish morphing









You are thinking incorrectly here. Remaking lings into blings is the incorrect response if you completely**** trade armies.

If you trade armies or if the zerg comes out on top which usually happens in a baneling trade. You reinforce with zerglings and not banelings because you will already have food advantage because zerg unit macro is the best in game.

So while their reinforcements come 6-7 at a time, that is simply not enough after a complete trade. Even if they can defend off the zerglings, the economic damage is already done while waiting for the reinforcements.

keyword is complete trade.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Muta's, queens, ect.

Provided they aren't using mutas to try and harass your base and with some banshees, queens fall rather fast. Of course, this also assumes that there are no overseers at their base and no detectors so that you can cloak your banshees and go wild


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
You are thinking incorrectly here. Remaking lings into blings is the incorrect response if you completely**** trade armies.

If you trade armies or if the zerg comes out on top which usually happens in a baneling trade. You reinforce with zerglings and not banelings because you will already have food advantage because zerg unit macro is the best in game.

So while their reinforcements come 6-7 at a time, that is simply not enough after a complete trade. Even if they can defend off the zerglings, the economic damage is already done while waiting for the reinforcements.

keyword is complete trade.

yes, I was mostly responding to the idea of mass banes and how you can keep on rebuilding them, basically pointing out that you can try and take some down as he morphs them, but, I agree, I usually get slings and only morph some to banes if I feel the need


----------



## DoomDash

Good Z's always have overseers and mutas making. It just takes one to take a banshee out. Then you wasted a ton of money.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Good Z's always have overseers and mutas making. It just takes one to take a banshee out. Then you wasted a ton of money.


Yes indeed, good ones will remember to get an overseer or two for this purpose


----------



## cory1234

Gotta love that PF repair OPness







. I'm starting to think the PF should be removed from the game. It's simply not fair to the other races imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Gotta love that PF repair OPness







.


Blizzard is looking into SCV repair and attack priority when SCVs are repairing thors for example, so, I can only guess they are looking at this as well


----------



## DoomDash

His attack on the PF was awful. If he would have planned it better it would have easily been his. I think that was the turning point.


----------



## yks

Haypro lost in SCRAP STATION!?!? Zerg's aren't suppose to lose on Scrap Station.

Drewbie is starting to impress me. The only other time I saw him play was the infamous Idra rage on him.


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Gotta love that PF repair OPness







.


Gotta love sending in your units 2-3 at a time as they hatch


----------



## DoomDash

You sure that wasn't Silver?

I wish I had some soda.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Gotta love sending in your units 2-3 at a time as they hatch










Yeah that was awful. He just got out played.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
His attack on the PF was awful. If he would have planned it better it would have easily been his. I think that was the turning point.

I will admit that he threw the game away..but still all those ultras were killed by a PF with repair? Doesn't seem right. If anything the hive should have an attack for how much it costs haha, and you can't repair that.


----------



## EmMure

i have the new orange dew in front of me


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You sure that wasn't Silver?


Oh the Silver one was epic as well. But there's a drewbie rage one too. I've been trying to find it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I will admit that he threw the game away..but still all those ultras were killed by a PF with repair? Doesn't seem right. If anything the hive should have an attack for how much it costs haha, and you can't repair that.

Just imagine planning that better though. A ) Some Banelings to kill SCV's repairing, and B), use an infestor to FG the SCV's so they cannot repair the PF. I mean little things like that are huge.


----------



## yks

there was more said in the replay. but here is A* pic.

edit: add*


----------



## DoomDash

Ah yes I do remember that. He does the same thing vs Silver too. idrA is an *******.

Also he said he wouldn't play Terran but he was training Terran just in case.


----------



## EmMure

LOL idra is such a douchebag


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just imagine planning that better though. A ) Some Banelings to kill SCV's repairing, and B), use an infestor to FG the SCV's so they cannot repair the PF. I mean little things like that are huge.


Compared to the terran way of pressing the stim hotkey and right-clicking a building







.

I was actually really surprised Drewbie let him have the gold the whole time, and still won. I think broodlords would've been the better choice.

Edit: Torch isn't red lol.


----------



## EmMure

holy **** anyone see how fast tlo was using that keyboard?


----------



## DoomDash

TLO vs Torch







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Compared to the terran way of pressing the stim hotkey and right-clicking a building







.


I prefer using siege tanks or air







.


----------



## thiru

I was looking for that silver picture but I found this instead


















And idra is so badass. I mean BM.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


LOL idra is such a douchebag


Nothing wrong with a little rage sometimes haha. At least he had the balls to fly to Korea to play in the GSL unlike 99.9% of the people at Dallas.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Nothing wrong with a little rage sometimes haha. At least he had the balls to fly to Korea to play in the GSL unlike 99.9% of the people at Dallas.

He already had been living in Korea for 2 or 3 years I think...


----------



## poroboszcz

PF is really annoying. Especially when you just won a battle and want to take down this expo and half of your army goes down while the terran reinforces. Now compare it to terran dropping 8 marauders at your expo...

Btw marauders have been nerfed by supply depot before rax and zerg and P buildings health increase, apart from the fact that people learned how to deal with them.


----------



## EmMure

i think 99.9 is alittle off loland he rages/talks **** alot


----------



## yks

the silver one:


----------



## EmMure

i honestly wouldnt be surprised if idra gets in trouble for raging at an event soon


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He already had been living in Korea for 2 or 3 years I think...


Nah, he moved back. shame he lost his 1 and only televised match in KR to a 13yr old.

so now he goes back and forth, in the latest State of the Game he said he is currently living with EG.Machine and LzGamer.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i think 99.9 is alittle off loland he rages/talks **** alot


Meh I've seen a lot worse rage from players who* are actually garbage. He did win MLG D.C. It's funny how he talks **** online b/c how short he is tho.


----------



## EmMure

i hope u mean who and not you lol


----------



## DoomDash

He plays SCII when he isn't filming new harry potter movies.


----------



## thiru

I wish TL/SC memes were easier to find.. google isn't very good at it.


----------



## DoomDash

wow that hidden base....


----------



## thiru

Well that was awkward.


----------



## cory1234

...and TLO somehow losing to repair...seems to be a reoccurring theme. Damn repair is powerful. TLO had such an advantage the whole game, and it was so close.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


the silver one:



















I always laugh whenever I see these kind of BMs from Idra although I have to admit that he's shouldn't BM, but, it's his style









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


PF is really annoying. Especially when you just won a battle and want to take down this expo and half of your army goes down while the terran reinforces. Now compare it to terran dropping 8 marauders at your expo...

Btw marauders have been nerfed by supply depot before rax and zerg and P buildings health increase, apart from the fact that people learned how to deal with them.


Best way to take it down is with air and if he has turrets, then either taken those down first or use siege units(BLs, tanks, colossi, etc....)


----------



## EmMure

Holy **** tlo wow


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


...and TLO somehow losing to repair...seems to be a reoccurring theme.


Had nothing to do with the NO AA lol! Also, he wasnt even close to losing really.









He even knew BC's were coming and he didn't prepare.. and the lack of scouting.


----------



## thiru

That was a pretty funny game.

And DAT ARM! lol


----------



## EmMure

yea tlo was far from losing


----------



## BigFan

Interesting map choice, haven't played it myself in ages since it was taken out


----------



## DoomDash

He is going to try and nuke the back of the main from that little ledge.


----------



## DoomDash

maybe not since tlo has all that vision.


----------



## thiru

LOLnukes


----------



## DoomDash

torch kinda sucks.


----------



## EmMure

lol i knew that nuke was gonna fail


----------



## thiru

Don't worry guys, he just did it for the fans.


----------



## DoomDash

yeah worst nuke ever.


----------



## _CodeX_

Damn, Seemed like he was desperate.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Don't worry guys, he just did it for the fans.


ok huk







.


----------



## BigFan

kinda surprised no cloak or no nuking main base. Likewise, no bunker with some marines incase of attack


----------



## DoomDash

Super gimmicky build, that wasn't even pulled off remotely well. He should have nuked at the ledge behind the main imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Super gimmicky build, that wasn't even pulled off remotely well. He should have nuked at the ledge behind the main imo.

I was thinking the same, if he researched cloak, 2 nukes at main would've done major damage


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Don't worry guys, he just did it for the fans.

You don't get a lot of fans losing basically in the first round..


----------



## EmMure

he knew tlo was gonna win so he went for the wind and said **** it ill have fun


----------



## Tchernobyl

And this is what i mean by the thread feeling like a chat channel


----------



## DoomDash

That's a good thing.


----------



## yks

Interesting matchups for tomorrow:


*EG.Idra vs Liquid`Nazgul, Liquid's HeadHoncho*
Liquid`Ret vs EG.LzGamer
Liquid`Jinro vs Socke
*EG.Axslav vs Liquid`Nony*
EG.Machine vs EG.iNcontrol (aww clan members against each other already)
*qxc vs Sen*
HuK and kiwi are facing people unknown to me. Bold matches are the ones I'm looking forward to.


----------



## DoomDash

Those are some pretty sick matches.


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*



EG.Machine vs EG.iNcontrol (aww clan members against each other already)


From TL:

Quote:



There is no doubt the player with the absolute worst MLG luck in 2010 has been EG.Machine. In Raleigh he had to play his teammate iNcontroL in round 1. In DC he had to play Liquid`Ret in round 1 and then iNcontroL again in losers bracket round 3. This is ridiculously bad luck for one of the best zerg players in North America. He goes into Dallas with no MLG points as a result of all of this ridiculously horrible bracket luck so again he will be relatively unseeded and at risk of playing another massive first round or two.


... and Machine goes for the trifecta, lol.


----------



## EmMure

machine does have bad luck for such a great player.and theres nothing wrong with this being a chat about sc2 ,deal with it rager


----------



## yellowtoblerone

is fox vs nestea tonight?

nevermind.


----------



## Sgt.Collins

I wish I could get into starcraft... after 2 years of WoW my attention span has diminshed so playing a game which requires 20+minutes of concentration is not likely.


----------



## Sainesk

where do you guys watch the matches? the teamliquid stream thingy in first post?


----------



## thiru

Teamliquid usually lists all the tournaments that are currently taking place and gives you the link to watch the stream. Including MLG and GSL.

edit: on the homepage on the right side.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


machine does have bad luck for such a great player.and theres nothing wrong with this being a chat about sc2 ,deal with it rager


Rager? bwaha,
















No, I'm just commenting on an earlier conversation of how the top 3 posters in this thread are hundreds of posts ahead of the others, and pointing out this is why ;P No rage at all, just continuing that conversation~


----------



## thiru

Heh I'm 3rd and I barely participate in conversations about game balance.

edit: how do you find other people's post count anyway?


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...plateau#rd:dna just won with a sick recovery on my part and he had map control please watch


----------



## thiru

OMG I just watched the most intense PvT game on a stream... 48 minute game with HT + colossus vs MMMG and about 30 nukes launched...

Minigun vs Neans

(2600 protoss vs 2400 terran)


----------



## EmMure

who won?


----------



## thiru

Protoss. Terran wasted loads of nukes in an attempt to stop him from mining, and lost loads of troops in drops and battles because storm is so cost effective.


----------



## EmMure

lol oh snap haha


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Heh I'm 3rd and I barely participate in conversations about game balance.

edit: how do you find other people's post count anyway?


Before you enter this thread, click the posts number.


----------



## thiru

Ahh nice


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Seen this yet?

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

I'll watch it right now.

Last laddder win +40!!!! yum.


----------



## EmMure

ill watch that later..im on a huk replay spree i wanna improve my playing DAMN IT


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


ill watch that later..im on a huk replay spree i wanna improve my playing DAMN IT


+1 rep.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Seen this yet?


Yeah that was nice. That pylon placement is dangerous.

and holy **** that mass recall thing will be the new thing.


----------



## EmMure

lol thx for the rep lol,its shocking coming from you lol


----------



## DoomDash

You said you want to improve, you deserve rep for that.


----------



## EmMure

yea well i do lol,HuK def is my fav to watch and i think i aim towards a similar stay of play i know i cant get to his level with out serious time into it but id like atleast improve myself enough to beat bigfan HAHA


----------



## DoomDash

With practice and dedication you could get very good.







.


----------



## EmMure

i know lol,im not willing to dedicate myself that much to sc2 yet considering i have alot of plans for 2011 with quakelive one of which is attending quakecon,if there arent enough events for 2011 then i might pursue sc2


----------



## DoomDash

I used to play QL when it first came out. I'm pretty mediocre at best.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Heh I'm 3rd and I barely participate in conversations about game balance.

edit: how do you find other people's post count anyway?


lol, click on post count outside thread name









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...plateau#rd:dna just won with a sick recovery on my part and he had map control please watch


Will do much later on, sounds interesting









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yea well i do lol,HuK def is my fav to watch and i think i aim towards a similar stay of play i know i cant get to his level with out serious time into it but id like atleast improve myself enough to beat bigfan HAHA


Bring it on!










Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


With practice and dedication you could get very good.







.


Definitely, took my words right out of my mouth, lol.

Can't believe you guys are still up, sleep FTW!


----------



## EmMure

yea,QL is what i spend alot of my time doing and ive gotten good fast,thanks to years of cs lol

edit,big i never sleep haha..atleast when im suppose to


----------



## DoomDash

I got 1.5 hours... we'll see how long it lasts me







.


----------



## EmMure

sleep is overrated for gamers lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yea,QL is what i spend alot of my time doing and ive gotten good fast,thanks to years of cs lol

edit,big i never sleep haha..atleast when im suppose to


lol, probably due to naping through the day, right?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I got 1.5 hours... we'll see how long it lasts me







.


Believe me, it won't last you long enough. I just woke up <1hr and had around 6hr, yet I want MORE!


----------



## DoomDash

I just wish I had some soda.


----------



## EmMure

i dont nap during the day,i hibernate.

lol doom,i have dr pepper and dew in my mini fridge


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i dont nap during the day,i hibernate.

lol doom,i have dr pepper and dew in my mini fridge


My mini-fridge has no soda, I am jealous.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


sleep is overrated for gamers lol


Even Fruit and Boxer sleep after their 10 hour of gaming







Don't drink much soda myself


----------



## EmMure

fruit who?lol....i perfer water but you know sometimes u need caffeine


----------



## DoomDash

I hate water, and I love soda. Soda is one of my favorite things







. BAWLs is ideal though!

Thinking about playing Protoss someday.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


fruit who?lol....i perfer water but you know sometimes u need caffeine


Fruitdealer, that's who!







I love water









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I hate water, and I love soda. Soda is one of my favorite things







. BAWLs is ideal though!

Thinking about playing Protoss someday.


Soda maybe a small can a day has a TON of sugar, not good for health. Too much can lead to a lot of health problems. Water on the other hand is great and doesn't have the same chemicals and issues so to speak, H2O FTW!


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I hate water, and I love soda. Soda is one of my favorite things







. BAWLs is ideal though!

Thinking about playing Protoss someday.


BAWL'S IS HEAVEN! it's hard to find here


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Soda maybe a small can a day has a TON of sugar, not good for health. Too much can lead to a lot of health problems. Water on the other hand is great and doesn't have the same chemicals and issues so to speak, H2O FTW!










Life's too short to drink things as lame as water. I'd rather live my life the way I wanted! Though I drink diet most of the time at home. Still, soda is yummy.


----------



## EmMure

for real,nothing beats a cold coke on some days


----------



## DoomDash

Yep







.


----------



## EmMure

just totally dominated a silver terran hehe,i had 4 exp's haha high templar's destory bioballs haha,i had 12k mins,3k gas when he gg'd lol,i controleld the whole map and every exp was cannond haha


----------



## DoomDash

Templars are awesome, yes







.


----------



## EmMure

storm is a nasty spell esp when u have 8 temps,along with 12 stalks,some sentries,and 10 vr's lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If only temps had col range : (

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah that was nice. That pylon placement is dangerous.

and holy **** that mass recall thing will be the new thing.


I nerd screamed when I saw it.


----------



## EmMure

temp's would be redic if they had col range for sonic


----------



## thiru

What the hell are you guys talking about psionic storm range is 9, same as upgraded colossus.


----------



## EmMure

really?lol haha seems shorter

also if some of u guys could watch this game i just won any points are good its a fast game under 15mins

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...sands#rd:units


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Na. psy's 6 where col's 9.


----------



## DoomDash

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/High_Templar

Storm is range 9 as Thiru said. It's actually further than Colossus if you count the radius







.


----------



## EmMure

any thoughts on the replay i posted?


----------



## scaz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


any thoughts on the replay i posted?


His starting build was worthless.


----------



## EmMure

i meant more so on how i played


----------



## DoomDash

Mlg







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/High_Templar

Storm is range 9 as Thiru said. It's actually further than Colossus if you count the radius







.


Somehow that might be wrong, or the way that's tallied up differently, or the ht has 9 range but storm may not be. The effective range of the ht to the centre of the storm is still 6, the furthermost outer edge of the storm is longer.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Somehow that might be wrong, or the way that's tallied up differently, or the ht has 9 range but storm may not be. The effective range of the ht to the centre of the storm is still 6, the furthermost outer edge of the storm is longer.


I have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know that link is correct. I even just went into unit tester for you. Storm has range 9.


----------



## EmMure

so my play is on point for my level for this morning im up like 8 games with no losses and ive gained about 20 spots in rank,watching replays is awesome hgahaha


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know that link is correct. I even just went into unit tester for you. Storm has range 9.


The distance between the HT and the clicker where the centre of the storm is 6, same as a stalker. Get a HT father than 10 range, click/use storm on rocks, see the max distance where it will stop to storm. Then use a colossus, then use a stalker. Both stalker and HT stops at the same distance, 6, whereas the upgraded col will stop farther away, 9.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


The distance between the HT and the clicker where the centre of the storm is 6, same as a stalker.


No, it's 9. I just tested it in unit tester vs a Colossus w/ thermal.


----------



## DoomDash

Let me explain. I sent a templar with storm at a colossus with termal lance. I was able to storm the moment the Colossus came into range ( 9 ), and hit the colossus.

I don't know where you are getting this range 6 thing from.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Again, centre of the storm not the outer edge. This makes the effective range of the storm to be 6, which is the same distance as the stalker. Test them on none moving targets instead of two moving at the same time.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


any thoughts on the replay i posted?


Easily the worst zerg build I've ever seen.

Edit: I do think you left yourself open to an early roach bust. That's become my standard play when I see P players quickly build multiple gateways without a wall-off. It works really well. If P invests in a fast expo that's even better. Zerg can easily pump wave after wave of roaches off one base fast enough to overwhelm 4 warp gates. If I had seen your gateways and your expo I guarantee you I would have rammed roaches down your throat until one of us was dead.

Edit: Just watched a little more closely. You didn't even start your 2nd gateway until the 7 minute mark and the only combat units you had at that point were 3 zealots and 3 stalkers. And no wall-off and no cannons. A roach bust would have steamrollered you. I ALWAYS send roaches when the P base is that weakly defended in the early going.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Again, centre of the storm not the outer edge. This makes the effective range of the storm to be 6, which is the same distance as the stalker. Test them on none moving targets instead of two moving at the same time.


I did test on non-moving targets. Yes, the center of storm is range 9. The outer edge of storm would be range 10.5 ( since it has radius of 1.5 ).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah your right. i did the test on destructable, thus the animation made the stalker and col hit the closet area rather than the centre. The storm was the casted on the centre so it made the storm seem to have less range. However from the animation it seems the storm still has less range than the col 1v1 by .5-1 range just b/c of the animation of the legs.


----------



## yks

Axslav vs Nony is pretty T_T so far.

Edit Add*:

Nazgul vs Idra:
Day9, "Idra, known for being all in proof, JUST GOT ALL-IN'd!"
That was the sickest Blink play I've seen.


----------



## cory1234

Idra was so stupid that last game. Why would he put so much pressure when he knew Nas was going all in?


----------



## thiru

Sooo many good games coming up in round 3/4.....


----------



## yks

wow huk =[


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
wow huk =[

How did he lose the second game?

I think Huk's decision making is haywire since DC


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Life's too short to drink things as lame as water. I'd rather live my life the way I wanted! Though I drink diet most of the time at home. Still, soda is yummy.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
for real,nothing beats a cold coke on some days

Not saying that a cold soda is horrible, mostly saying that you should drink it in moderation otherwise you can get really sick if you drink it on a daily basis and I'm sure you would rather not end up in the hospital









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
just totally dominated a silver terran hehe,i had 4 exp's haha high templar's destory bioballs haha,i had 12k mins,3k gas when he gg'd lol,i controleld the whole map and every exp was cannond haha

Nice work, haven't seen it yet, but, make sure to space dts if you attack their base so that one scan doesn't cause all your dts to be killed with their MMM. Also, adding them with your army will increase dps and opponent is less likely to scan for them since they are too busy with the engagement, although, once they find out you are using them, then they'll likely scan or use ravens in the next encounter









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I nerd screamed when I saw it.

lol, kinda surprised that you guys(P) haven't ever wanted to use mass recall to attack a turtling terran, it would be really awesome, because, next thing he knows, he has 30+stalkers in his base, lol









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
so my play is on point for my level for this morning im up like 8 games with no losses and ive gained about 20 spots in rank,watching replays is awesome hgahaha

Good work, just tell me there was no cheese involved?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Easily the worst zerg build I've ever seen.

Edit: I do think you left yourself open to an early roach bust. That's become my standard play when I see P players quickly build multiple gateways without a wall-off. It works really well. If P invests in a fast expo that's even better. Zerg can easily pump wave after wave of roaches off one base fast enough to overwhelm 4 warp gates. If I had seen your gateways and your expo I guarantee you I would have rammed roaches down your throat until one of us was dead.

Edit: Just watched a little more closely. You didn't even start your 2nd gateway until the 7 minute mark and the only combat units you had at that point were 3 zealots and 3 stalkers. And no wall-off and no cannons. A roach bust would have steamrollered you. I ALWAYS send roaches when the P base is that weakly defended in the early going.

This is what I'm talking about. You should ALWAYS wall up against Z because if you don't, it'll be very easy for them to slip 30 slings into your base to take out your probes, then while you rebuild your macro, they'll be sending waves of units until all your army is gone and its GG.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I did test on non-moving targets. Yes, the center of storm is range 9. The outer edge of storm would be range 10.5 ( since it has radius of 1.5 ).

Interesting, so the storm has a diameter of 3 and ht's range is 9(6 from the outer edge)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Not saying that a cold soda is horrible, mostly saying that you should drink it in moderation otherwise you can get really sick if you drink it on a daily basis and I'm sure you would rather not end up in the hospital










You'd have to drink quite a lot of Soda to get Diabetes or something. Not saying its good for you but I have never put a drop of alcohol or any other major drug in my body so I figure a little soda won't hurt







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How did he lose the second game?

I dont even know. I saw 3-gate, went downstairs to grab a drink, came up saw an expand on STEPPES. and was thinking "you chose steppes yourself and you do an expand build?"

but whatever not THAT big of an issue so I thought "whatever he's playing against a zerg, lemme make a sandwhich, its just gonna be a macro game"

come back and I see Ret doing an all-in Roach push @ HuK's nat. to get the win

day9 and jp going crazy. day9, "And for the first time ever, WE WILL NOT SEE HuK in the upper bracket finalssssssss. THIS IS AN INSANE TOURNAMENT. this is only the 4th round!!"

which i agree. so many big names going head to head in the early rounds.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You'd have to drink quite a lot of Soda to get Diabetes or something. Not saying its good for you but I have never put a drop of alcohol or any other major drug in my body so I figure a little soda won't hurt







.

Nice







I know, I mostly meant don't go crazy, but, it sounds like you aren't









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
I dont even know. I saw 3-gate, went downstairs to grab a drink, came up saw an expand on STEPPES. and was thinking "you chose steppes yourself and you do an expand build?"

but whatever not THAT big of an issue so I thought "whatever he's playing against a zerg, lemme make a sandwhich, its just gonna be a macro game"

come back and I see Ret doing an all-in Roach push @ HuK's nat. to get the win

day9 and jp going crazy. day9, "And for the first time ever, WE WILL NOT SEE HuK in the upper bracket finalssssssss. THIS IS AN INSANE TOURNAMENT. this is only the 4th round!!"

which i agree. so many big names going head to head in the early rounds.

lol, all-in Roach Push is pretty strong as it and expanding on steppes as P early on is a bad idea, especially due to the short distances and since you are sacrificing units to make your nexus, bad timing really


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
I dont even know. I saw 3-gate, went downstairs to grab a drink, came up saw an expand on STEPPES. and was thinking "you chose steppes yourself and you do an expand build?"

but whatever not THAT big of an issue so I thought "whatever he's playing against a zerg, lemme make a sandwhich, its just gonna be a macro game"

come back and I see Ret doing an all-in Roach push @ HuK's nat. to get the win

day9 and jp going crazy. day9, "And for the first time ever, WE WILL NOT SEE HuK in the upper bracket finalssssssss. THIS IS AN INSANE TOURNAMENT. this is only the 4th round!!"

which i agree. so many big names going head to head in the early rounds.


Do you have a link to the replay? I've become a real devotee of timing roach busts against P. I thought I had figured out something original, or at least semi-original. I've never seen it in a pro game, but I would like to.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Do you have a link to the replay? I've become a real devotee of timing roach busts against P. I thought I had figured out something original, or at least semi-original. I've never seen it in a pro game, but I would like to.

Check out the zerg forums. 7RR, 5RR and recently 3RR are very popular and fast roach attacks and they've been talked about a lot











Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Really funny how the best 4 players(Huk, select, idra, kiwikaki) are all now in the losers bracket and that last game by TLO was great with how he was spreading creep as well as the timing for that spore and how he took that exp far from his base. Maybe it's where I should've tried expanding on that map when I used to get it.


----------



## BigFan

Idra vs. Select starting in T-1min


----------



## BigFan

Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Impressive micro by Select, I think Idra took a little too many risks, he would've went for the marines instead of that tech lab. My opinion of course or at least take down the reactors, since it was those reactors that were helping with pumping out marines


----------



## DoomDash

Game 2 was close for a little bit.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Game 2 was close for a little bit.




Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



At start yes, but, man did he expand and put some good pressure. Why not go for SCV baffles me since he had no turrets yet with little marines against his 5-7 mutas?


----------



## DoomDash

wow!


----------



## BigFan

wow, well, that wasn't expected at all.


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Building barracks anywhere is so OP, lol, jk of course, but, the way he used them was great. While I understand why Idra gg'd, I think he should've focused on getting a queen, droning a bit and then getting some slings+crawlers, but, meh, it's why he's considered the pro, so, I probably missed something


----------



## BigFan

Anyone having problems with the stream? It starts then stop, etc.... which is annoying and my net is working fine ATM, so, it can't be that


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
wow, well, that wasn't expected at all.


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Building barracks anywhere is so OP, lol, jk of course, but, the way he used them was great. While I understand why Idra gg'd, I think he should've focused on getting a queen, droning a bit and then getting some slings+crawlers, but, meh, it's why he's considered the pro, so, I probably missed something















Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



as they said he should have made his queen @ his main so he could expand the creep



No problems with the stream for me.


----------



## thiru

Works fine for me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



as they said he should have made his queen @ his main so he could expand the creep



No problems with the stream for me.

I see, I know they talked about it.


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



They mentioned that since his queen was gone and he had none with small amount of drones; that was the reason he gg'd. Oh well, had he noticed that other barracks with his OL, he might've been able to counter it in time.



Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Works fine for me.

I see, likely problem on my end :/


----------



## DoomDash

omg @ that restart.


----------



## thiru

The stupid, it burns.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
omg @ that restart.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
The stupid, it burns.

huh? Can you guys fill me in n what happened with this restart? I've given up on trying to get it to work


----------



## thiru

They restarted the first game just after Tyler took a huge advantage because they weren't supposed to play on lost temple.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
They restarted the first game just after Tyler took a huge advantage because they weren't supposed to play on lost temple.

oh, that must be pretty disappointing. Anyways, final results:


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Interesting game, didn't see the whole game but the last 5-10 minutes at least when Tyler had those 7 colossi, but, Pain was amazing. He has finally used vikings to their fullest, since, I've been wanting a terran(since I mostly play zerg) to switch vikings to land mode or whatever its called for a quick assault. Likewise, his 3 hellion assault was pretty nice, took out most of his probes


----------



## EmMure

did huk get knocked out?


----------



## yks

He's in the lower bracket.

He has to beat qxc then TLO. then a whole bunch of other people.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
did huk get knocked out?

no clue, only got a chance to see Idra vs. select and 1/3 of last game of Taylor vs. Pain


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
did huk get knocked out?

The losers' bracket is really confusing but I think he still has to play against Qxc.


----------



## DoomDash

I think its huk vs qxc, and the winner of that vs TLO :O!!


----------



## EmMure

ok explain to me how a zerg gets slings at 5mins?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
ok explain to me how a zerg gets slings at 5mins?

huh? 6 pool?







oops, realized you meant slings, well early extractor then take drone off and back to minerals once you get 100 gas


----------



## EmMure

ok but how is it in 5mins he has enough mins and gas to pool then sped and 8 slings,timing doesnt add up


----------



## yks

my b.net account got stolen =/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


ok but how is it in 5mins he has enough mins and gas to pool then sped and 8 slings,timing doesnt add up


TBH, I just used a standard 15 exp 14 pool, then get queens, lings, etc.... and do my scouting, so, my guess is he skips queens(150=6 lings), used some drones and make an extractor early at 10 or so then mines minerals until he has enough for pool.
So, 
10 pool
10 extractor -> 3 drones mine till 100
10 OL
Make lings and upgrade speed -> Profit($)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


my b.net account got stolen =/


How did that happen? Did they hack your pass? Have you reported this to Blizzard?


----------



## Mach 5

are you guys watching a live stream right now?


----------



## EmMure

mlg is done for the day,and fan i know how it happened im wondering how it happened that quickly


----------



## cory1234

Anyone else think Pain.User had the easiest road to the winner's final?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Anyone else think Pain.User had the easiest road to the winner's final?


Not sure who he played against, so, can't really agree/disagree with you :/


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Not sure who he played against, so, can't really agree/disagree with you :/


http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/pr...2/open/winners


----------



## DoomDash

I would hardly call nony and thisisjimmy easy, especially nony.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


my b.net account got stolen =/


How?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


How did that happen? Did they hack your pass? Have you reported this to Blizzard?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How?


No idea how =/ I just tried logging in today and couldn't. Tried to reset pw and the contact email has been changed. Asked friends and they all say I'm not on their friends list no more.

So it just happened last night. But all I did these past 2 days was watch MLG.


----------



## Tchernobyl

YKS, do you have an authenticator? That cuts down on a lot of hacks. And I'd say run malwarebytes or something, check for keyloggers and so on. WOW accounts are heavily targetted, and since they're attached to bnet accounts, so are SC2 accounts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


No idea how =/ I just tried logging in today and couldn't. Tried to reset pw and the contact email has been changed. Asked friends and they all say I'm not on their friends list no more.

So it just happened last night. But all I did these past 2 days was watch MLG.


did u try contacting blizzard and stating what happened? You might be able to convince them if you can show them your key, as in scan and send it to them so that they know that it's yours, maybe a reciept? Something else I heard is a driver's license so that they can match your info, although, that can be changed I think


----------



## EmMure

u cant change that info on a bnet account once it's created


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


u cant change that info on a bnet account once it's created


Perfect, then his a scan of his driver's license is all he needs to prove that it's his account then they'll change his email and reset the pass, likely with a link. I'm heard that they ask for driver's license for confirmation of your account


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


No idea how =/ I just tried logging in today and couldn't. Tried to reset pw and the contact email has been changed. Asked friends and they all say I'm not on their friends list no more.

So it just happened last night. But all I did these past 2 days was watch MLG.


Wow, that's messed up. I hope you figure something out.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


u cant change that info on a bnet account once it's created


Obviously you can. The forget password screen asks for 3 things.

First name, Last name, Email.

Obviously I know my first and last name. So when I put that and my email together and it says "Does not match" that means the email was changed. Right?

Sorry for sounding stingy.

And no, no authenticator, Tchernobyl. First time this has happened ever.

Blizzard hours don't operate on weekends so I have to wait until Monday =/


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Obviously you can. The forget password screen asks for 3 things.

First name, Last name, Email.

Obviously I know my first and last name. So when I put that and my email together and it says "Does not match" that means the email was changed. Right?

Sorry for sounding stingy.

And no, no authenticator, Tchernobyl. First time this has happened ever.

Blizzard hours don't operate on weekends so I have to wait until Monday =/


Probably. Get all the proof you have of your purchase, tell them to check the IPs, etc.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Authenticator is hands down the best security to get for a battle.net account, even if you don't play WOW. I suggest everyone here get one


----------



## thiru

I'm going to get one right now.

edit: what the hell you have to pay for this stuff?


----------



## thiru

Did you do this ?

https://us.battle.net/account/suppor...-recovery.html


----------



## EmMure

grrr im so sick of stupid bronze,stupid builds that noone good uses


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
grrr im so sick of stupid bronze,stupid builds that noone good uses

What kind of builds?


----------



## EmMure

just got beat by a stupid zealot push,with 4 zealots and i had 3 zealots and a stalker and he was able to funnel them in by 2's so im guessing gated close to me and i could warp in units fast enough


----------



## DoomDash

Sentry + FF = win.

Dude, I need to constantly yell at my fellow oc.net members to build more sentries as they are AMAZING!!!!


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


just got beat by a stupid zealot push,with 4 zealots and i had 3 zealots and a stalker and he was able to funnel them in by 2's so im guessing gated close to me and i could warp in units fast enough


Did he proxy gate you or proxy pylon you?


----------



## EmMure

proxy gate,and i was i had 2 sentries but they wont stand up to 5 lots


----------



## EmMure

he had 4 gates up before my warp finshed so idk what to say


----------



## Tchernobyl

And I hate gold protoss in my league. ****ing stalkers as far as the eye can see. I hate stalkers more than hitler hated the jewish!

In the words of the great George Carlin, "it's not a pet peeve, it's a major psychotic ****ing hatred"


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


proxy gate,and i was i had 2 sentries but they wont stand up to 5 lots


You should have scouted that (pretty obvious when he has nothing in his base). If he goes all zealots you can just wall off and cannon up.
Once he stops attacking, warp a a zealot or 2 outside and send them to his base.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


my b.net account got stolen =/


This suck man. Unless you had an easy to guess password or you suspect your email account could get compromised I'd suggest you to do a thorough scan of your system with an antivirus. You could also use this program to make absolutely sure everything is alright. If you have a problem analyzing the log from it, you can post it on networking and security forum and I'm sure someone will be able to help you with it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


just got beat by a stupid zealot push,with 4 zealots and i had 3 zealots and a stalker and he was able to funnel them in by 2's so im guessing gated close to me and i could warp in units fast enough


You shouldn't guess as you should've scouted it, or at least scout his base and see nothing is there. Normally you want to cut probes production at this point and get a forge down asap. You also shouldn't lose to 4 zealots with 3 zealots and a stalker with even minimal micro. If you post a replay it would be easier for us to point out what went wrong though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


grrr im so sick of stupid bronze,stupid builds that noone good uses


2 gate proxy is just as popular in diamond and has even been used in the GSL.


----------



## EmMure

i did scout,he had 2 gates in his base


----------



## thiru

Upload the replay. Didn't you have another replay you wanted to look at?


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm going to get one right now.

edit: what the hell you have to pay for this stuff?


You can also grab a free authenticator app for your iPod/iPhone/Android phone. You only need to pay if you opt for the physical key chain authenticator.

https://us.battle.net/account/suppor...-download.html
http://us.blizzard.com/store/search.xml?q=authenticator

I grabbed one right before SC2 came out. A couple of my friends got hacked in April/May/June despite the fact that both of their WoW accounts had been inactive for several months. I figure the piece of mind is worth 7 bucks since it'll cover future purchases and my WoW account, should I ever resubscribe (let's hope not







).

Granted, as long as you're not an idiot your account should be relatively secure, but one night of drunkenly clicking on that Heart of the Swarm beta email could change everything


----------



## EmMure

i have a bunch from this morning,idk if i saved that game i lost


----------



## EmMure

heres the replay i did save it

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-metalopolis


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


heres the replay i did save it

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-metalopolis


Umm ok I only watched the first few minutes and there are some pretty big problems with your play.

1. pylon at 9, gateway at 13, gas at 14-5, pylon at 16-7, cybernetics when gateway ends (standard opening).

2. constantly make probes. CONSTANTLY (except if you see a scary rush or something) even if you saturate your base (saturation is about 24 probes + 6 on gas) because that way when you expand (and you should expand) you can send half of them there and you'll get more income. Don't stop making probes until you've saturated 2.5-3 bases.

3. Use chronoboost. At first on your probes, later on whatever you want (probes is still a good choice mid game).

4. Don't queue stuff. At most queue 1 probe, but don't queue 3 zealots like you did in the game.

5. WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT MICRO? it's like you purposely avoided killing those zealots. You should not have lost when you had 3 zealots and a stalker against 3 zealots. If you make mistakes like that a lot stop microing. Just focus on good positioning (zealots in front, sentries behind, get a bigger arc of fire than him, or force into a choke, etc).

6. Good move killing that probe that made a pylon in your base. Kind of overreacted (4 or 5 is enough to trap him) but you got him. You also didn't need all those probes to kill the pylon, it's not like he can warp in units at that point. Instead scout around for more pylons or probes (often cannon rushes start below your base, then he makes a pylon on the higher level).

I'm going to watch the rest.

edit:
ok, I finished watching it. I didn't miss as much as I thought. Just need to add that you should always try to put down your structures in a way that destroying 1 pylon should not even unpower ONE building.


----------



## EmMure

it wasnt one of my finer games,i know i made a few mistakes and im still learning,


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


heres the replay i did save it

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-metalopolis


I have to say you played better then this guy, but you're probably appropriately placed in bronze. To add to what thiru said: it is really important that you get your build order down. You want to make probes all the time and spend all your money. You had about 1000 minerals after just few minutes into the game, which could have been units/gateways/cannons or whatever.

Try to just focus on these few things and nothing else for while:
- make pylon at 9 food and gateway at 12 or 13, followed by gas and core
- make probes all the time
- look at your money every few seconds and as soon as you have 150+ minerals make a unit
- if you already have units being produced, add more buildings
- anytime you see your minerals going above 500 you should start panicking and building lots of stuff
- don't micro, try to not even watch fights, it's more important to watch your money and spend it
- use control groups and hotkeys (why 0 for nexus? - you gonna be pressing 'e' quite often, so it's better to have it in 1-5 range)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


it wasnt one of my finer games,i know i made a few mistakes and im still learning,


Microing and not putting more than one pylon for those gates were mistakes. The rest aren't mistakes, they're game concepts you don't fully understand. More precisely, macro concepts. Watch these:

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4065228/
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4170265/
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4131781/

The first 2 are the most important ones.


----------



## EmMure

the reason for the 1 pylon was i was gonna korean 4gate which would have covered that pylon up if i haad goten my placement


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


the reason for the 1 pylon was i was gonna korean 4gate which would have covered that pylon up if i haad goten my placement


Before using all-in strategies like korean 4 warpgate you should work on your macro. There is no way your kr4gate would have worked because your macro simply didn't allow you to make it quickly enough.


----------



## EmMure

normally it works well for me acutally,that game was just bad


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


normally it works well for me acutally,that game was just bad


The thing is, if you want to get to platinum or higher, and learn something on the way there, you're going to have to practice your macro. The best way to do that is to play standard every game until your macro allows you to overcome ANY strategy (well except cheese which is overcome with scouting, which you should also be learning).

On another note, a korean 4 warpgate is a very specific thing, it's an all in rush where you warp in your first 4 units (usually zealots) in the other guy's base. If you make units before that then it's not called a korean 4 warpgate, it's simply making a forward pylon while you attack.

In any case it doesn't really matter, just watch those day9s.


----------



## EmMure

watchd the day9

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...s-jungle-basin
i think my probe produc was more on key then normal.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


watchd the day9

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...s-jungle-basin
i think my probe produc was more on key then normal.


Cool.

Ok, you more or less did the standard build except you got the gas early. It may seem like nothing to you, but you're losing 3 probes on the mineral line.
You stopped making probes at 18, then later queued 5 more and again forgot about them. (yeah I know it's been less than hour since I've told you to make them constantly... just practice







)
Get into the habit of making probes pylons and units somehow. Make probes and pylons every time you make units for example, especially if you're warping in a "wave" of units. Or repeat to yourself "PPU": probes pylons units.

Build wise, try 2 gate then robo then gate, if you're on one base. 1 SATURATED base can support (support means you can make units, probes and pylons constantly out of them) 3 stargate/gate/robo if your macro is perfect, but yours and mine isn't so just get 4 of those. Protoss army relies heavily on warpgate units, so 3 gates for 1 robo or stargate is better (and stargate is kinda gimmicky or requires micro so get robo instead anyway). If you get expansions remember to make 4 more buildings per expansions as you saturate them.

The other player had a huge macro advantage over you and could have won if he'd been making more units. Even when he lost that expand and the warpgates, he still could have won if he'd repositioned his units.
Of course double expanding like that is not something you should do.


----------



## EmMure

my macro is getting there.


----------



## EmMure

is this more to ur liking for probe making?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


is this more to ur liking for probe making?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant


It's better, but still not there, simply because you didn't expand until your main base was mined out. You're going to have to mine on 2 bases or more, sticking to just one base is simply not enough unit production.

You shouldn't put your nexus there, either blow the rocks up or expand in front.
Between 7 and 10 minutes you should be expanding. It depends on how safe it is to expand (positionally and according to what the other player is doing).

Here he expanded. If he'd made units instead of cannons he could have taken you out because you didn't scout his second base. Admittedly it's a bit far fetched to go looking there so you should scout and look at what he has. He had cannons, which means he's delaying for tech or expands (well the way he set up it really just looked like bad judgement lol). Either way it meant he didn't have a lot of units so you should have just walked in, past his stupid cannon line (which was easy to avoid) and kill his economy.

Also don't cannon up your ramp. That's 3 or 4 more units that could have been in your army, which could make the difference in battle. Only make them to protect your mineral line if he gives you a reason to, like air harass or drops (if it's just zerglings, just partially wall off with a pylons and a gate and put one zealot on hold).
Also don't put down cannons versus void rays like that, he'll just go around them.


----------



## EmMure

i single base saturate is why i waited so long,and once i killed his lower i decided to exp,cause it was safe.


----------



## DoomDash

World wide win %'s in Diamond.

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/93137#blog


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i single base saturate is why i waited so long,and once i killed his lower i decided to exp,cause it was safe.


Yeah but some maps don't work that way, like Scrap station or long positions on any 4 player map. You aren't going to just wait till you saturate, attack and then expand. He might have expanded early and then you'd be screwed because he'd have 1.5 saturated bases. Not to mention on big maps there are a number of things that can make you waste time with your army as you hesitate whether to attack or not.

It's ok to saturate before expanding, but don't wait too long like that, you mined out your main base... The mid to late game is played on 2 or more bases, you'll get out macroed if you don't expand early enough.


----------



## DoomDash

Also blizzard blog kinda upset at the whole division icon rewarding higher rankings. I'm much higher points than most people ranked 40, how is that fair?

http://starcraft2.net.pl/portal/sc2/...__czesc_2.html


----------



## EmMure

yea your right,i forgot it a free natrual so its my fault but i won and thats what matters


----------



## yellowtoblerone

^ re that win percentage: lol at less than 50% for pvz. nerf mutas plz

The problem with watching day9 is he's sometimes gets a bit annoying, and if you watch him long enough the actual good tips are far in between.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


yea your right,i forgot it a free natrual so its my fault but i won and thats what matters


IMO, at your level what matters is what you learn.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


^ re that win percentage: lol at less than 50% for pvz. nerf mutas plz

The problem with watching day9 is he's sometimes gets a bit annoying, and if you watch him long enough the actual good tips are far in between.


Day9 can have my babies.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I can get into the new master league







.


----------



## EmMure

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


IMO, at your level what matters is what you learn.

Day9 can have my babies.


ok i take what i said back,learning is whats best.but winning is a close 2nd


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


ok i take what i said back,learning is whats best.but winning is a close 2nd












Btw not sure if you realized when watching the replay, but that guy was planning on cannon rushing you. He saw your probe at the 11 o'clock base so he thought your base was there and warped in 2-3 pylons and 3 cannons. I wish I could have seen his face when he realized you weren't there









And then he couldn't let that 600 minerals investment go for nothing so he just expanded and made more cannons at his main








At more than 5 minutes in the game he still didn't have a single unit. You could have just walked past the cannons and killed him.


----------



## EmMure

lol,i hate cannon rush so much,its the only cheese **** i wont ever try


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

not awesome but i still won and beat the mmm ball


----------



## EmMure

it's really ****ing annoying to lose to a scrub terran who rushes with marines and a siege...its my own fault thou i should left more defense..i pushed 2 soon


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


lol,i hate cannon rush so much,its the only cheese **** i wont ever try


Cannon rushing typically only works on protoss, and sometimes zerg, but its really risky.


----------



## EmMure

just won another match my rank is getting lower and low im top 35 for bronze now lol

thoughts i know i expd late and my probing stopd a few times
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-lost-temple


----------



## DoomDash

I know how to beat banelings... mules







.


----------



## EmMure

Lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


World wide win %'s in Diamond.

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/93137#blog


PvT: 51.25%
PvZ: 47.975%
TvZ: 50.35%

total averages.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=167042

Percentages for all the regions.

North America:
Protoss > Terran 56.5%
Zerg > Protoss 52.1%
Zerg > Terran 50.9%
Pretty balanced, IMO for NA. But NA players aren't as ahead with the strats as KR players.

Korea, however, Protoss is getting the short end of the stick. With 48% Terran and 47% Zerg. But with T and Z being on equal grounds.

Europe dominates the Terran scene though. As terrans over there have the highest win-rate. 55% over Toss and 55% over Zerg

And I don't count SEA, unless your name is Luffy, Loner, Sen, or Softball.


----------



## yks

crap, i'm slow. i didnt see doom-dash's link.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


crap, i'm slow. i didnt see doom-dash's link.


It's funny because I bumped it like 3 sec before you.

Also the PvT in NA is a pretty big difference.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's funny because I bumped it like 3 sec before you.

Also the PvT in NA is a pretty big difference.


3 IRL seconds is like 2.5/3 In-Game Tank shots. So I'm still slow if I'm taking 3 Tank-shots for free. ;]


----------



## DoomDash

I think I under estimated the power of the siege tank in TvP.


----------



## EmMure

gonna be a fun month lol im doing the pny xlr8 sc2 event and the msi one


----------



## DoomDash

After the last oc.net tournament I kind of have bad taste in my mouth for tournaments. I would prefer IRL tournaments.


----------



## EmMure

yea nothing beats a lan,but they are free and u can win cool **** so w.e lol


----------



## Gizmo

Can anyone comment on, or point me in the direction of where I could find out, typical frame rates for various set ups? I haven't played SC2 since the beta, but have since sold off my computer and been out of the custom rig scene for a bit. All said, my buddy now wants me to build him a desktop, and I'm not sure what I should be looking for him.

Going to be either 1600x900 or 1920x1080, with maybe (slight maybe) dual monitors in the future.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know of any list for SC2 performance, but I can tell you my build runs it perfect on maxed settings @ 1920x1080. I would say it's over kill but some crazy custom games, and motherships even drop my frame rate.


----------



## EmMure

yea same,i play on a 5870 with i7 and 6 gigs and i play on med or low


----------



## Slasher

Hey guys, this is Slasher, co-host of Live On Three with djWHEAT and SirScoots. For those interested, myself, djWHEAT, SirScoots and JP will be hosting another compilation LIVE show of Live On Three + State of The Game directly after the competition is over like we did for MLG DC. The tournament is supposed to end at 5-5:30 CST, and we'll try to go live by 7-7:30 CST, with the winner of the tournament, several of the top players and other media personalities to discuss this weekend's happenings, as well as the SoCal regionals SSF4 tournament this weekend, and the World eSports Masters CS 1.6 tournament in China this week. The show will be aired LIVE on http://www.djWHEAT.tv

Matches starting soon! Pre-show goes live in about 15 minutes on http://events.mlgpro.com/takeovers/p...mlgpro/???????

Winners Bracket:
Liquid`Jinro (T, Sweden) vs Lazarus.PainUser (T, USA)
EG.Machine (Z, USA) vs FnaticTTOne (P, Canada)

Lower Bracket:
Liquid`Huk (P, Canada) vs Liquid`TLO (Z, Germany)
ROOT.Drewbie (T, Canada) vs root.SLush (Z, Canada)
Dignitas.SeleCT (T, USA/Korea) vs Liquid`Tyler (P, USA)
KiWiKaKi (P, Canada) vs Liquid`Ret (Z, Netherlands)


----------



## EmMure

day9 looks like he just showered lol


----------



## DoomDash

huk defeated qxc already. huk vs tlo now.


----------



## DoomDash

TLO beats huk, damn TLO is smart


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Yeah I just watched the TLO vs HuK match, I thought it was very entertaining







. I'm not sure if I'll be able to catch the finals tonight I'm going to a concert so I'll probably be back just as they are ending :*(.

I think I need a new keyboard, the one I'm using at the minute is a cheap one I bought in spain so it has a spanish layout lol. Not sure which one to buy though. I don't really want a flashy gamer type keyboard, I would prefer a good quality standard keyboard.

Also I think im starting to figure out my ZvZ, I used to hate it but now if I focus on my macro and defend any early roach pushes with a crawler and some roaches of my own I should be ok. Also if they rush for mutas, they seem to have sacrificed their economy and can't afford enough mutas so a couple of spore crawlers is enough to allow my macro to kick in, then steam roll with huge army of Roach and Hydra.

Matt


----------



## EmMure

im disaapointed in huk after that match


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


im disaapointed in huk after that match


Only caught the end of the match..

TTone!


----------



## DoomDash

updates









Tyler beats Select


----------



## DoomDash

updates ver 2.0

Tyler beats Ret 2-1
TLO beats Drewbie 2-0!


----------



## burwij

You guys need to warn us when you change avatars. Doom and Cory changing it up in combination with Daylight Savings Time had me pretty confused for a minute


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody know where I can rewatch the matches from this morning?

Found it:
http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/pr...2/open/winners

TTone vs Jinro. Both look strong against each other's race.


----------



## soul999

thinking of buying new computer it's about time anyways. how will this computer run sc2 if it can?

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...de0c286866en02


----------



## CramComplex

And here we go~ 10minutes past as of this writing...TTOne vs Jinro~ go go go Terrans!!!


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soul999* 
thinking of buying new computer it's about time anyways. how will this computer run sc2 if it can?

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...de0c286866en02

should be all right on mediumish settings. I don't like the core i3, but if you're not planning on playing stuff like crysis 2 or whatever, that should do well with SC2, methinks.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gizmo* 
Can anyone comment on, or point me in the direction of where I could find out, typical frame rates for various set ups? I haven't played SC2 since the beta, but have since sold off my computer and been out of the custom rig scene for a bit. All said, my buddy now wants me to build him a desktop, and I'm not sure what I should be looking for him.

Going to be either 1600x900 or 1920x1080, with maybe (slight maybe) dual monitors in the future.

I'd just post a thread in the Intel or AMD (AMD if budget) sections, you'll get a lot more helpful replies there









Quote:


Originally Posted by *soul999* 
thinking of buying new computer it's about time anyways. how will this computer run sc2 if it can?

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...de0c286866en02

Same.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sentry + FF = win.

Dude, I need to constantly yell at my fellow Overclock.net members to build more sentries as they are AMAZING!!!!

lol, I saw a new avatar and was wondering who the new guy was?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
2. constantly make probes. CONSTANTLY (except if you see a scary rush or something) even if you saturate your base (saturation is about 24 probes + 6 on gas) because that way when you expand (and you should expand) you can send half of them there and you'll get more income. Don't stop making probes until you've saturated 2.5-3 bases.

3. Use chronoboost. At first on your probes, later on whatever you want (probes is still a good choice mid game).

4. Don't queue stuff. At most queue 1 probe, but don't queue 3 zealots like you did in the game.

Pretty dead on, always make probes, try to use chronoboost more often, personally, I use it to get my first zealot/stalker out faster as well as getting wrap gate research faster. Avoiding queueing unless you know that you need the units for some attack, although, it's still better to try and avoid it. Just in terms of playing zerg, we can't queue units unlike P and T so if you queue up a unit only to find you need money for an exp, well, true you can cancel and get minerals/gas back, but, you can also forget about it at the same time.
One thing that I have to ask though is about saturation. How can splitting up your probes yield more minerals when you have saturated your minerals at your main? As in why do you get more income with 12 probes at either of your bases(main, exp) compared to all 24 at your main? Reason I ask is because if saturation is 24(3 per patch), then all your workers will be getting minerals compared to 26 or so, where the 2 workers will wait around to get some minerals









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
i single base saturate is why i waited so long,and once i killed his lower i decided to exp,cause it was safe.

I would try to exp as early as possible. Again, this is the exact reason that both P and T have a hard time with Z. They are still in the mindset that they can't expand early/can win game 1 basing, so, with a zerg working off 2 bases, they get overwhelmed. If you exp early when you have a big enough army to support it as well(or throw some quick cannons), you can keep up/outmacro your opponent and have more money/gas for higher tier units









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









Btw not sure if you realized when watching the replay, but that guy was planning on cannon rushing you. He saw your probe at the 11 o'clock base so he thought your base was there and warped in 2-3 pylons and 3 cannons. I wish I could have seen his face when he realized you weren't there









And then he couldn't let that 600 minerals investment go for nothing so he just expanded and made more cannons at his main








At more than 5 minutes in the game he still didn't have a single unit. You could have just walked past the cannons and killed him.

wow, lol, I would have also loved to see his face when he realized that your main wasn't there









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I know how to beat banelings... mules







.

I see, care to elaborate or are you talking from an economy point of view?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think I under estimated the power of the siege tank in TvP.

You? It can't be?







Sounds like found has just found out how useful tanks can be


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
One thing that I have to ask though is about saturation. How can splitting up your probes yield more minerals when you have saturated your minerals at your main? As in why do you get more income with 12 probes at either of your bases(main, exp) compared to all 24 at your main? Reason I ask is because if saturation is 24(3 per patch), then all your workers will be getting minerals compared to 26 or so, where the 2 workers will wait around to get some minerals









Saturations = exactly enough or more than enough. It means that there is ALWAYS a worker waiting at the mineral patch, it doesn't mean that each worker is always busy mining or moving. There's quite a difference.
Also moving half your probes to the expo means that each nexus can continue producing for its OWN mineral patch, instead of having the main sending probes all the way to the expo.

Of course it's probably different for zerg since they expand before they saturate.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Saturations = exactly enough or more than enough. It means that there is ALWAYS a worker waiting at the mineral patch, it doesn't mean that each worker is always busy mining or moving. There's quite a difference.
Also moving half your probes to the expo means that each nexus can continue producing for its OWN mineral patch, instead of having the main sending probes all the way to the expo.

Of course it's probably different for zerg since they expand before they saturate.

Ah I see, I thought having 24 workers for your minerals meant that ALL are working(3 per patch) and that going over that would mean workers standing around, but, based on what you're telling me, not all 24 workers are going to be mining, even though I have just reached saturation(didn't pass it). Interesting, makes sense why you should try for 16-18 per base for mining then


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm eagerly waiting for the MLG Dallas Starcraft 2 finals to start...they're having problems with Battle.net at the moment. I'm really raging right now, because Starcraft 2 is such an amazing game for tournaments, yet it doesn't have LAN which makes it really hard to have an event go smoothly.

I'm going to a LAN party in February, and they've stated that there won't be a Starcraft 2 tournament because they don't want to deal with playing over the internet


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Ah I see, I thought having 24 workers for your minerals meant that ALL are working(3 per patch) and that going over that would mean workers standing around, but, based on what you're telling me, not all 24 workers are going to be mining, even though I have just reached saturation(didn't pass it). Interesting, makes sense why you should try for 16-18 per base for mining then









Because saturation is the minimum number of workers required to have the maximum income. It's not having the maximum number of workers working all at the same time.

But that isn't important. What's important is having lots of workers at all your bases, and to do that the fastest way possible you saturate your main even beyond 24 and send half of them over and continue producing out of the two nexi. Unless you're trapped on one base and can't expand any soon of course.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soul999* 
thinking of buying new computer it's about time anyways. how will this computer run sc2 if it can?

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...de0c286866en02

I wouldn't recommend Gateway as a brand. I used to work in a service center repairing them and their build quality seemed quite ****ty. The best thing you can do is to build a system yourself and people on these forums can sure help you with that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sentry + FF = win.

Dude, I need to constantly yell at my fellow Overclock.net members to build more sentries as they are AMAZING!!!!

I think you said somewhere that you're thinking about trying protoss. I encourage you to do so, as for now it looks you'd loose to 2 gate rush trying to use sentries against it.







Hopefully it'll help you lose some of your bias too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Ah I see, I thought having 24 workers for your minerals meant that ALL are working(3 per patch) and that going over that would mean workers standing around, but, based on what you're telling me, not all 24 workers are going to be mining, even though I have just reached saturation(didn't pass it). Interesting, makes sense why you should try for 16-18 per base for mining then









The thing is that past 2 workers per mineral patch their efficiency starts to decrease, so when you have 3 workers they're not as efficient as 2, and adding a forth brings almost no benefit per cost.

In other words 2 workers per mineral patch will mine 200% faster than one, 3 will mine 280% than one and 4 will mine 300% faster then 1. 5 will mine at the same speed as 4 and adding even more can actually slow down mining due to queuing (this are ballpark figures, you can look up tl.net for the exact data).

So having 2 bases with 16 workers gives higher income than having one with 24 and one with 8, which is still better than having one with 32.

Thus ideally you want to start transferring workers after you have 16 on one base and then start saturating them once you have 16 on both of them.


----------



## ThumperSD

Any diamond zergs here looking for practice partner? I need to work on my PvZ. I wish more people on ladder played Z.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Any diamond zergs here looking for practice partner? I need to work on my PvZ.

If you want to add me I'd be up for some practice games; I'm bouncing around between 1375-1500 playing random. I don't think we have any active posters that are plat/diamond zerg (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I wish more people on ladder played Z.

5 of my last 7 games were against zerg, and I think I went 1-6 against them







I signed up for a 2v2 tournament with a friend and had been focusing on that, so my 1v1 got pretty rusty. I've been so used to seeing muta/ling that the roach-heavy play since the patch has me back on my heels a lot of the time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I see, care to elaborate or are you talking from an economy point of view?
*If you see a bunch of banelings with a scan, you can just call down a mule in the middle of them







*

You? It can't be?







Sounds like found has just found out how useful tanks can be







*Well I've always used tanks, but only really in TvZ and TvT since tanks got wrecked by Toss in beta.*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 

I think you said somewhere that you're thinking about trying protoss. I encourage you to do so, as for now it looks you'd loose to 2 gate rush trying to use sentries against it.







Hopefully it'll help you lose some of your bias too.

What bias ? I'm a Protoss sympathizer.









I said 2 gate Zealot rushes.


----------



## thiru

lol mules on blings


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
What bias ? I'm a Protoss sympathizer.









I said 2 gate Zealot rushes.

Yes, there's no way on earth you can defend them with sentry even if he build 2 gates in his base on desert oasis.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yes, there's no way on earth you can defend them with sentry even if he build 2 gates in his base on desert oasis.

Uh, sure you can, very easily actually. I'd just FF my ramp, build another sentry, and if I still see the zealots there I'd build a couple pylons blocking my ramp and I'd get stalkers out. 2 gate zealot pressure should not be a problem. Stalkers can kite Zealots all day.


----------



## thiru

Well I think there's only one way to find out... FIGHT!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
If you want to add me I'd be up for some practice games; I'm bouncing around between 1375-1500 playing random. I don't think we have any active posters that are plat/diamond zerg (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

5 of my last 7 games were against zerg, and I think I went 1-6 against them







I signed up for a 2v2 tournament with a friend and had been focusing on that, so my 1v1 got pretty rusty. I've been so used to seeing muta/ling that the roach-heavy play since the patch has me back on my heels a lot of the time.

We can do that. Are you pretty flexible with different zerg builds? Im pretty flexible with protoss. I have a bunch of openings and builds if you need help against a specific type of protoss play.

Ive been playing a lot of 1v1 on my new account now.


----------



## ThumperSD

No need to even block off with sentry for a 2 gate zealot push. As long as I have 1 stalker for 3 zealots, I can win the battle. Use stalkers to buy time then as soon as warp gates finish, finish off the zealots and counter immediately. Throw up expo during process. Your opponent's warp gate will be delayed because he went for the early 2 gate instead of 1gate/cyber.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Zealots don't scare me, I'd just use my marauder with conc shel.... erm.. stalkers to kite them all day.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Ive been playing a lot of 1v1 on my new account now.

Why did you buy a new account? btw sign up with it too in the OCN sc2ranks list


----------



## ThumperSD

I will once I get where I want to be







not revealing the account yet


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
No need to even block off with sentry for a 2 gate zealot push. As long as I have 1 stalker for 3 zealots, I can win the battle. Use stalkers to buy time then as soon as warp gates finish, finish off the zealots and counter immediately. Throw up expo during process. Your opponent's warp gate will be delayed because he went for the early 2 gate instead of 1gate/cyber.

BTW building placement is very important for something like this. On metalopolis, I like to build a wall covering my nexus and minerals to force the zealots to walk all the way around to get in. Hide the stalker behind building and he will be able to get at least 5 free shots before the zealots get anywhere close to it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I will once I get where I want to be







not revealing the account yet

Become a Terran player.. not enough on here







. Plus I need a good Terran practice partner as out of 40 people on my buddy list no one plays T.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
The thing is that past 2 workers per mineral patch their efficiency starts to decrease, so when you have 3 workers they're not as efficient as 2, and adding a forth brings almost no benefit per cost.

In other words 2 workers per mineral patch will mine 200% faster than one, 3 will mine 280% than one and 4 will mine 300% faster then 1. 5 will mine at the same speed as 4 and adding even more can actually slow down mining due to queuing (this are ballpark figures, you can look up tl.net for the exact data).

So having 2 bases with 16 workers gives higher income than having one with 24 and one with 8, which is still better than having one with 32.

Thus ideally you want to start transferring workers after you have 16 on one base and then start saturating them once you have 16 on both of them.

hmm, I see, so, technically speaking, do 3 still mine at the same time or do they wait until another drone is done to mine, ?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 









lol, mules on blings, it's an interesting idea, but, I'm much rather NOT waste what is essentially 3-4 SCV mining for me. You know, I'm wondering, can you use mules to mine(?) gas, because, that would be crazy if you coud, can you imagine the gas income especially if you have 2 SCV also getting gas(mules takes place of one in terms of max of 3)







As for tanks, well, they aren't bad against T, just not as effective due to the higher hp









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah Zealots don't scare me, I'd just use my marauder with conc shel.... erm.. stalkers to kite them all day.

I see what you did there....


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
We can do that. Are you pretty flexible with different zerg builds? Im pretty flexible with protoss. I have a bunch of openings and builds if you need help against a specific type of protoss play.

Ive been playing a lot of 1v1 on my new account now.

Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable doing a variety of builds. It's not going to be anything FruitDealer-esque, but I can make it to the mid/late game with whatever build you want to work on.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Become a Terran player.. not enough on here







. Plus I need a good Terran practice partner as out of 40 people on my buddy list no one plays T.

Well, I wouldn't mind challenging you as a T, although, it'll take me time to get to your level, but, I'm sure I'll get there soon than later, just need to find the time


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, mules on blings, it's an interesting idea, but, I'm much rather NOT waste what is essentially 3-4 SCV mining for me.

I'll lose 3-4 SCV's to save as many as 10 marines lives. SCV's are useless when you army disappears every time you go out







. Honestly considering this just to see how it works. I haven't seen anybody try it.

Can you imagine high level games of people doing that? If you see a scan spread out your banes! lol!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable doing a variety of builds. It's not going to be anything FruitDealer-esque, but I can make it to the mid/late game with whatever build you want to work on.

Cool. Add me, I'll do the same. Probably wont have time tonight as I have to finish my paper for tomorrow.


----------



## DoomDash

nvm my mule strat is fail.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll lose 3-4 SCV's to save as many as 10 marines lives. SCV's are useless when you army disappears every time you go out







. Honestly considering this just to see how it works. I haven't seen anybody try it.

Can you imagine high level games of people doing that? If you see a scan spread out your banes! lol!

ATM, I find that since most opponents don't space them out their units, I don't have to worry about spreading out my blings, although, a decent number of T opponents try to kite and succeed to some degree, but, not enough


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
nvm my mule strat is fail.

Why do you say that? Tried it yourself or just reconsidering?


----------



## DoomDash

I tried it in unit tester, and not only is there time to react, but it only explodes 1 bane or so. Kinda disappointing because it would have been pretty cool to see.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Why do you say that? Tried it yourself or just reconsidering?









Banelings are "smart" when it comes to choosing targets and won't overkill, so I'm going to guess that 1 MULE caused exactly 1 baneling to explode.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Banelings are "smart" when it comes to choosing targets and won't overkill, so I'm going to guess that 1 MULE caused exactly 1 baneling to explode.

Quite possible. Tanks also go a single thing where if you try to shoot 7 tanks at a structure that only requires 5 shots, then queue attack on two workers, 5 tanks will attack the structure and the other 2 tanks will go for the two seperate workers. In SC1, all tanks would attack the same unit although we couldn't queue commands then


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Banelings are "smart" when it comes to choosing targets and won't overkill, so I'm going to guess that 1 MULE caused exactly 1 baneling to explode.

Yeah this is it. Weak.


----------



## poroboszcz

It seems you guys haven't played much PvP's against 2 gate zealot rush, if any. Just ask some protoss player or try it for yourself in the actual game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It seems you guys haven't played much PvP's against 2 gate zealot rush, if any. Just ask some protoss player or try it for yourself in the actual game.


I played vs 2 gates in beta vs my Diamond friend... I raped him with stalkers ( after sentry stall ). Yeah I don't play now, but seriously Protoss has all the tools to stop this.


----------



## DoomDash

Man I love my Thor push vs Toss. Fast expand to lots of gateway units... after I kill his units with my MT I cannon his expo Nexus to death since he has no immortals to use it on. I then back off, let me expansion kick in, macro up some marines, marauders, and more thors, then push again and win.


----------



## burwij

I just got mothership'd in a ZvP Delta Quadrant, lol. He opened 2 gate phoenix, went robo for a few immortals, and then got a 14-minute mothership.


----------



## DoomDash

did you lose?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I played vs 2 gates in beta vs my Diamond friend... I raped him with stalkers ( after sentry stall ). Yeah I don't play now, but seriously Protoss has all the tools to stop this.


Sure it has, but going standard 1 gate, core and getting sentry out isn't one of them.









Here you have your average 2 gate rush with gates in base on mid/long rush distance map. It's against Very Hard AI, which obviously can't micro, but tell me, timing wise, how can you stop this with sentry, when by the time you can have 1 out, with skipping gw research, there are 3 zealots already in your base. And in case of proxy, which was the issue in initial discussion, they are there even faster, roughly by the time your core has just finished.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It seems you guys haven't played much PvP's against 2 gate zealot rush, if any. Just ask some protoss player or try it for yourself in the actual game.


Id be happy to demonstrate a 1gate/1cyber vs 2gate if you'd like. This is actually one of the things im very good at. Ive won every game against whoever has 2gated me.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Id be happy to demonstrate a 1gate/1cyber vs 2gate if you'd like. This is actually one of the things im very good at. Ive won every game against whoever has 2gated me.


I wouldn't mind a replay. Haven't been 2gated since the last time it happened (and worked) against me.


----------



## ThumperSD

Sorry no replay but I can demonstrate it if you 2 gate against me. You can then use that replay to study.


----------



## thiagocosta85

Hello there guys, I just thought I would share this with you all...

Its pretty funny. My brother and I playing SC II at Fast Money just for fun,
when we decided to attack in middle, and not destroy the other one's base just
for fun and unit testing I guess...

Well I'm a Diamond player while he is a gold player, (not that it matters) But he broke the rules and destroyed my whole base and still lost...

Its awesome though, even though he is a noob, he was able to get his Thors + Battle Cruisers with upgrades....

The only replay I thought was worth saving this whole entire time (except for hacker reports)


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


did you lose?


I won despite the fact that I'm an idiot.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Here you have your average 2 gate rush with gates in base on mid/long rush distance map. It's against Very Hard AI, which obviously can't micro, but tell me, timing wise, how can you stop this with sentry, when by the time you can have 1 out, with skipping gw research, there are 3 zealots already in your base. And in case of proxy, which was the issue in initial discussion, they are there even faster, roughly by the time your core has just finished.


I actually went into a build order tester earlier tonight when I saw your first posts about 2gate. Doing the standard 9 pylon/12 gate -> gas -> pylon -> cyber opening, it wouldn't have been too difficult to hold off your rush.

I went zealot (after core), zealot (saving gas for sentry), sentry, stalker, and started warp tech immediately upon completion of the cyber core. Most people go zealot, stalker, sentry, but you guys were talking about sentries and FF. I split chronoboost between warp tech and the gateway I was producing from. Here's an example of what might have gone down at the base of the Very Hard AI if it used my build order above in your replay:

3:20 - my zealot pops out
3:50 - your zealot gets to my base
4:01 - my second zealot pops out - it's 2v1 in my favor at this point
4:16 - your second zealot arrives
4:19 - your third zealot arrives - 2v3 assuming nothing dead gosu micro
4:30 - my sentry pops out
4:45 - your fourth zealot arrives
5:00 - your fifth zealot arrives
5:06 - my stalker pops out

You also cut probes, while I continuously built them and researched warp gate. With some pretty basic micro (I can FF my ramp and deny your 4th zealot for ~15 seconds), your rush has failed at this point and I've got both an econ and tech advantage. The only way you're going to win is if:
you take down a key pylon powering half my base
I skip the zealot after core
I don't chronoboost any gateways
I don't pull any probes off the line and/or forget to build pylons
Granted, if you catch your opponent off guard you have the potential to do some major damage. However, with your particular build and the fact that you cut probes, you've gone all-in and you're racing the clock.


----------



## thiru

You did that with 1 gate? and cyber


----------



## burwij

Chronoboosted, yeah. I'd have to go back and look at the replay, but I want to say I boosted nexus once after pylon and cyber once on warp gate tech, everything else on the gateway. I had enough cash to toss down 2 extra gates somewhere in there, but they weren't 100% finished when warp gate was finished - I was more interested in getting units out ASAP.

You can probably go gate -> cyber -> gate and hold it off fine with zealot/stalker on one gas, but I grabbed a second gas to be able to afford a faster sentry while still getting WG tech for the sake of argument. This is all assuming you scout 10 pylon/10 gate/11 gate and prepare for the all-in rush.


----------



## DoomDash

3000 might be broken soon!

http://sc2ranks.com/


----------



## EmMure

got my self down to 24th in league lol im getting there haha got my first match of the pny tourney tonight at 8


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Id be happy to demonstrate a 1gate/1cyber vs 2gate if you'd like. This is actually one of the things im very good at. Ive won every game against whoever has 2gated me.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


I actually went into a build order tester earlier tonight when I saw your first posts about 2gate. Doing the standard 9 pylon/12 gate -> gas -> pylon -> cyber opening, it wouldn't have been too difficult to hold off your rush.

I went zealot (after core), zealot (saving gas for sentry), sentry, stalker, and started warp tech immediately upon completion of the cyber core. Most people go zealot, stalker, sentry, but you guys were talking about sentries and FF. I split chronoboost between warp tech and the gateway I was producing from. Here's an example of what might have gone down at the base of the Very Hard AI if it used my build order above in your replay:

3:20 - my zealot pops out
3:50 - your zealot gets to my base
4:01 - my second zealot pops out - it's 2v1 in my favor at this point
4:16 - your second zealot arrives
4:19 - your third zealot arrives - 2v3 assuming nothing dead gosu micro
4:30 - my sentry pops out
4:45 - your fourth zealot arrives
5:00 - your fifth zealot arrives
5:06 - my stalker pops out

You also cut probes, while I continuously built them and researched warp gate. With some pretty basic micro (I can FF my ramp and deny your 4th zealot for ~15 seconds), your rush has failed at this point and I've got both an econ and tech advantage. The only way you're going to win is if:
you take down a key pylon powering half my base
I skip the zealot after core
I don't chronoboost any gateways
I don't pull any probes off the line and/or forget to build pylons
Granted, if you catch your opponent off guard you have the potential to do some major damage. However, with your particular build and the fact that you cut probes, you've gone all-in and you're racing the clock.


Normally though, this kind of rush is proxied so in most cases these times are about the latest the zealots arrive (take 10-15 game seconds for more probable, ladder scenario). This kind of build was one of the main reasons for zealot nerf, before which each wave would be there addtional 5 seconds earlier.

I've been wondering myself if after the nerf going gate, core against it could be possible, but I've never managed to do it or seen it done by someone else. I know even some pros delay their core in favor of early second gate (oGsInCa vs NEXGenius‎ in GSL) to be safe against proxy gate shenanigans.

I'll try to log into US server later today, with doomdash's permission, so we can test it in game.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'll try to log into US server later today, with doomdash's permission, so we can test it in game.


He's laddering I believe.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm done now. 1200~ on my second account , 2:1 ~.


----------



## turbocharged

Here's a TvP game I just played...guy starts out nice, but quickly reverts to bashing when I send my first rush of 6 or so marauders and a couple of marines. Looks like he was trying to tech straight to Voidrays.

I'm still just a bronze player who is trying to improve my gameplay (which I think I am doing now...I'm 31-26 in 1v1, but lost my first 15 games...so thats 31 wins in my last 11 games). I know my macro sucks in this game, got caught up and over-micro'd my first rush.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


World wide win %'s in Diamond.

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/93137#blog


This is very interesting, but it kind of pisses me off that blizzard is counting ALL diamond players. The cutoff should be 1600 or so, because players below this rating still don't use very very crucial tricks that are completely game-changing: baneling drops, magic box, things like that.

SC2 ranks has a detailed breakdown of win% by rating, and though it's not accurate (some backlogged data) it shows some HUGE variation in win% by rating.

But very cool nonetheless, I'm surprised how much variance there is between regions.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Here's a TvP game I just played...guy starts out nice, but quickly reverts to bashing when I send my first rush of 6 or so marauders and a couple of marines. Looks like he was trying to tech straight to Voidrays.

I'm still just a bronze player who is trying to improve my gameplay (which I think I am doing now...I'm 31-26 in 1v1, but lost my first 15 games...so thats 31 wins in my last 11 games). I know my macro sucks in this game, got caught up and over-micro'd my first rush.











Few simple tips:

Orbital on 15

You didn't block fast enough. If you get Zealot rushed before your marauder is out you will die ( Unless you have high level micro ).

At times you didn't micro your marines and marauders, and let them get hit by Zealots, while you had the group of them selected. You should always be kiting Zealots if possible.

Spending was bad. If you have too much money, throw down more racks, build more units, expand, ect ect.

idle scv

poor muling

control the watch towers

for newer players I'd recommend 2 tech labs, 1 reactor.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Few simple tips:

Orbital on 15

You didn't block fast enough. If you get Zealot rushed before your marauder is out you will die ( Unless you have high level micro ).

At times you didn't micro your marines and marauders, and let them get hit by Zealots, while you had the group of them selected. You should always be kiting Zealots if possible.

Spending was bad. If you have too much money, throw down more racks, build more units, expand, ect ect.

idle scv

poor muling

control the watch towers

for newer players I'd recommend 2 tech labs, 1 reactor.


Thanks for the tips Doom.

I usually play a bit better than that (at least when it comes to idle scv, watch towers, and kiting zealots). My spending/expanding is easily my weakest point in most games.

When would you throw down the 3rd barracks with a reactor...before factory/starport for medivacs?


----------



## DoomDash

Before factory. 2 tech 1 reactor is the most reliable / standard build and in lower leagues will probably do well in all match ups. I like to do it in this order : tech, reactor, tech.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Before factory. 2 tech 1 reactor is the most reliable / standard build and in lower leagues will probably do well in all match ups. I like to do it in this order : tech, reactor, tech.


Thanks...most appreciated. I'll probably post another game sometime in the future...hopefully once I'm matched up against a higher level player.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Thanks...most appreciated. I'll probably post another game sometime in the future...hopefully once I'm matched up against a higher level player.


and a less whiny one







.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey guys I was just wondering if I could add myself to the OCN custom division on SC2 ranks.com? I'm not too sure how to do it, do I need to register an account on sc2ranks?

This is me... SC2rank link, not great but i'm getting there, started in bronze and can only really play at weekends









Matt


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Hey guys I was just wondering if I could add myself to the OCN custom division on SC2 ranks.com? I'm not too sure how to do it, do I need to register an account on sc2ranks?

This is me... SC2rank link, not great but i'm getting there, started in bronze and can only really play at weekends









Matt


Nah you just needed to click on my link, click manage characters and paste your link.

Already added you though









It's kinda stupid now though, Blizzard removed the character codes so now we have no way of adding those players, and since not everyone posts here, I have no idea who some of them are


----------



## DoomDash

What's the story about Blizzard removing the codes? Where did they remove them?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What's the story about Blizzard removing the codes? Where did they remove them?


They removed them from the player database that's available to sc2ranks. So now there's no way to add someone without them giving their code to you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


3000 might be broken soon!

http://sc2ranks.com/


Nice, these guys must really have some time on their hands









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah you just needed to click on my link, click manage characters and paste your link.

Already added you though









It's kinda stupid now though, Blizzard *removed the character codes *so now we have no way of adding those players, and since not everyone posts here, I have no idea who some of them are










You mean the 3 or 4 character code that distinguishes different people who have the same name?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


They removed them from the player database that's available to sc2ranks. So now there's no way to add someone without them giving their code to you.


Oh I see, thought you meant they removed the codes all together which would've been a bad idea


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah you just needed to click on my link, click manage characters and paste your link.

Already added you though









It's kinda stupid now though, Blizzard removed the character codes so now we have no way of adding those players, and since not everyone posts here, I have no idea who some of them are










Sweet, Cheers man!









+Rep,
Matt


----------



## KaiZ51

Damn, I'm about to ******* give up on this game!!!









I can't seem to get out of Bronze League no matter what. And for that matter, neither past rank 50 on my division.
Either it's the childish worker rush loss, or the loss against a good player. I've lost most of my games up until now.

Here's a replay of my most recent game... I sincerely don't see what I'm doing wrong, it's like my opponents are cheating...

**** this crap...


----------



## EmMure

what race are you?


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
what race are you?

I play Terran 99% of the time. Tried Protoss very about 2 or 3 times, and still haven't tried Zerg yet.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaiZ51* 
Damn, I'm about to ******* give up on this game!!!









I can't seem to get out of Bronze League no matter what. And for that matter, neither past rank 50 on my division.
Either it's the childish worker rush loss, or the loss against a good player. I've lost most of my games up until now.

Here's a replay of my most recent game... I sincerely don't see what I'm doing wrong, it's like my opponents are cheating...

**** this crap...

Ummm.... there's so many things lacking in your gameplay and so many mistakes I don't know where to start..
I'd watch download some replays or watch some VODs and some Day9 dailies first...


----------



## EmMure

is he worse then me thiru?lol

also have my first match of the pny xlr8 tourney at 8 not siked lol


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
is he worse then me thiru?lol

also have my first match of the pny xlr8 tourney at 8 not siked lol

umm just watch the replay

And good luck!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
*is he worse then me thiru?*lol

also have my first match of the pny xlr8 tourney at 8 not siked lol











I agree with thiru, watch some replays of MLG and GSL along with some day9 videos. Also, worker rushes are so easy to beat, all you have to do is continue making workers, then once you see his 6 approaching, select all your workers, press A and click behind them. Once you get a surround, since, you'll have around 11-12 workers or so, you'll taken them all down causing most opponents to GG


----------



## thiru

Watch these:


You Tube





http://www.youtube.com/user/ForceSC2...B18C1A341FDE9D (all the videos where it says MMM)


----------



## EmMure

as thiru and bigfan suggested watch replays man,i went on a replay spree of my fav player and i picked up alot of things,if u can get ur macro on the right track other stuff will get easier


----------



## burwij

Like thiru said, if you're interested in getting better, check out Day9's webcast. He does 5 per week (Sun-Thurs) and they're usually 45-60 minutes in length. It's much more in-depth than a lot of the Youtube guys who just giggle and scream when they see some interesting play.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/

Lately he's been doing a "Newbie Tuesday" show that highlights basic decision-making and fundamentals; they're definitely worth a watch if you're struggling.

#1: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/
#2: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4179246/
#3: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4210235/ (zerg-focused)
#4: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4239325/
#5: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4270058/
#6: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4300952/
#7: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4330673/ (2v2)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
is he worse then me thiru?lol

also have my first match of the pny xlr8 tourney at 8 not siked lol

You sure yours is tonight? My bracket plays tomorrow at 8pm CST; maybe they staggered them.


----------



## EmMure

oh ur right lol it is tomarrow haha


----------



## KaiZ51

Thanks guys, I'll check out some of the videos you provided me. Hopefully I will improve something...


----------



## EmMure

they help trust me man.


----------



## ThumperSD

Does anybody know if it's possible to go from bronze straight to diamond?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Does anybody know if it's possible to go from bronze straight to diamond?

TBH, not sure, I've heard silver to plat or gold to diamond, silver to diamond, etc... but never bronze to diamond. I mean I don't see why the system would even match you with diamonds even if you are easily destroying bronze players


----------



## EmMure

def not possible.if ur good enough to play diamond u would have been put there


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
TBH, not sure, I've heard silver to plat or gold to diamond, silver to diamond, etc... but never bronze to diamond. I mean I don't see why the system would even match you with diamonds even if you are easily destroying bronze players









Oh it is possible to match a bronze with diamond. Matches are set up based on MMR which is a hidden ranking system and not necessarily against players of the same league. If you keep beating higher ranks, it will gradually have you play better and better players until you start losing about 50% of them I suppose.


----------



## EmMure

if thats the case then i shouldnt be in bronze anymore lol im 20 and 4 right now for my recent games


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Oh it is possible to match a bronze with diamond. Matches are set up based on MMR which is a hidden ranking system and not necessarily against players of the same league. If you keep beating higher ranks, it will gradually have you play better and better players until you start losing about 50% of them I suppose.

Yes, I agree and I have heard cases of bronze and silver being matched with diamond players and I've read plenty on MMR, but, I still don't see the system promoting you to diamond from bronze. Either way, doubt any bronze players would be able to play against a diamond skilled opponent which is the reason that they were put in bronze in the first place after your placement matches


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
if thats the case then i shouldnt be in bronze anymore lol im 20 and 4 right now for my recent games

Keep at it, the more you win, you'll be put up against silver players, try and win as many as possible and you'll likely get promoted


----------



## ThumperSD

Well I purposely lost my first 13-17 games so I can get my portraits quicker. I got put in bronze and started owning everybody all the way to 1500 diamond. Yet im still stuck in bronze XD.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
if thats the case then i shouldnt be in bronze anymore lol im 20 and 4 right now for my recent games

If you are getting matched up against silver-diamond players, your MMR is higher than your displayed league which is bronze. The system thinks you can play better than your league and wants to get your MMR correct before placing you in another division.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Well I purposely lost my first 13-17 games so I can get my portraits quicker. I got put in bronze and started owning everybody all the way to 1500 diamond. Yet im still stuck in bronze XD.

lol, that's CHEATING!!!!!







I guess the moral of the story is: you cheat, you get to stay in bronze


----------



## ThumperSD

Not cheating, just taking a shortcut









I dont really mind the bronze badge. It feels pretty cool beating diamonds and still being a bronzie. Bronze FTW!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 









I agree with thiru, watch some replays of MLG and GSL along with some day9 videos. Also, worker rushes are so easy to beat, all you have to do is continue making workers, then once you see his 6 approaching, select all your workers, press A and click behind them. Once you get a surround, since, you'll have around 11-12 workers or so, you'll taken them all down causing most opponents to GG









I read on a SC2 forum that worker rush has a 50%+ win ratio in diamond/platinum. I find that hard to believe though.

I can see it working in bronze and silver. Use your workers to attack move. You should always have more workers. Only micro you have to do is pull away your injured worker. Dont overcommit.


----------



## EmMure

if u lose a worker rush ur gg'd u cant recover from that really


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
if u lose a worker rush ur gg'd u cant recover from that really

Do what I said. There is no reason why it shouldnt work since you have more workers than him unless his micro is vastly better than yours. If he pulls his workers back, dont chase it. Just have it mine minerals again and only attack if you see his workers attacking.

I have to admit though, Ive only been worker rushed 2 or 3 times my entire time playing SC2.


----------



## EmMure

a worker rush only works right away u cant wait til they start building


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I read on a SC2 forum that worker rush has a 50%+ win ratio in diamond/platinum. I find that hard to believe though.

I can see it working in bronze and silver. Use your workers to attack move. You should always have more workers. Only micro you have to do is pull away your injured worker. Dont overcommit.

I have to agree with this, although, that 50%+ win ratio is rather startling. I mean as you mentioned, bronze and silver, it might work especially if you are P since you can pull away injuried probes, regenerate shields and attack again, but, the only time I've been worker rushed, I just surrounded his SCVs and he quit right after I took them all down, lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Well I purposely lost my first 13-17 games so I can get my portraits quicker. I got put in bronze and started owning everybody all the way to 1500 diamond. Yet im still stuck in bronze XD.

Haha, I can imagine a diamond player looking at the score screen and realizing he lost to bronze, lol. Don't really see a point though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I read on a SC2 forum that worker rush has a 50%+ win ratio in diamond/platinum. I find that hard to believe though.

I can see it working in bronze and silver. Use your workers to attack move. You should always have more workers. Only micro you have to do is pull away your injured worker. Dont overcommit.

1800+ diamond worker rush win.

Edit: Same against 2000+ terran.


----------



## yks

You guys obviously havent seen CellaWerra troll the US servers.

2500 diamond worker rush when he's bored. Used to be top 50 WORLD*wide on his US account before he started taking his KR account more seriously.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
You guys obviously havent seen CellaWerra troll the US servers.

2500 diamond worker rush when he's bored. Used to be top 50 WORLD*wide on his US account before he started taking his KR account more seriously.

nope, never seen him or heard of him before


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nope, never seen him or heard of him before










He's my favorite Zerg, you should look him up. He was Co-Leader of the WeRRa clan before they broke up. But right now, he's a Zerg training partner to a lot of top KR players; most notably ITR (HopeTorture) and HuK (before huk joined TL).

He's like the man behind the scenes! All the top Koreans you see are on top because they trained wit this guy.

@GSL 1


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


He's my favorite Zerg, you should look him up. He was Co-Leader of the WeRRa clan before they broke up. But right now, he's a Zerg training partner to a lot of top KR players; most notably ITR (HopeTorture) and HuK (before huk joined TL).

He's like the man behind the scenes! All the top Koreans you see are on top because they trained wit this guy.

@GSL 1










ah I see, interesting. Still, even if drones can regenerate, going up against 11-12 drones or probes, since, they can also regenerate almost means certain death, since, I would also be able to micro back my wounded and then reattack when the shields are back to full







BTW, any luck getting your account back?


----------



## yks

Calling Blizz tomorrow.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Calling Blizz tomorrow.

GL, pretty confident that a driver license scan to confirm your info is all they'll need


----------



## Sainesk

just wondering what you guys think:

-will competitive starcraft 1 die now that there's 2?
-do you think LAN might come with the expansions or sometime, especially after that MLG bnet failure?
-does experience in starcraft 1 help improve your gameplay with 2? (macroing etc.)

just wondering because I'm pretty much broke (holiday gift shopping+ a ton of my relatives have bdays coming up







) and wondering if I should bother playing 1 again since I prob won't get 2 till boxing day...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just wondering what you guys think:

-will competitive starcraft 1 die now that there's 2?
-do you think LAN might come with the expansions or sometime, especially after that MLG bnet failure?
-does experience in starcraft 1 help improve your gameplay with 2? (macroing etc.)

just wondering because I'm pretty much broke (holiday gift shopping+ a ton of my relatives have bdays coming up







) and wondering if I should bother playing 1 again since I prob won't get 2 till boxing day...


Well,
- Not completely, but, a lot of pros have moved to SC2, so, we'll eventually see SC1 slowly die down, not completely yet though
- Not sure TBH, I don't think LAN will come with the exp
- Well, definitely although from what I've read, macro was more important in SC1 than SC2, although, if you do play zerg, macro is your friend


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You call yourself a zerg and you never have seen or heard cella before?

What the fudge.

No chance of lan


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow im 13-2 vs platinum and 4-1 vs diamond. Still no promotion =(


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


You call yourself a zerg and you never have seen or heard cella before?

What the fudge.

No chance of lan


lol, well, I don't follow the pro scene a lot, only recently that I started watching GSL and MLG as well so I don't know the main characters









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Wow im 13-2 vs platinum and 4-1 vs diamond. Still no promotion =(


Nice record, it takes time, since, your MMR is still fluctuating, but keep winning against diamonds and soon you'll be in that league


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I think the key is to lose 3+ games in a row. I might purposely lose 3 games in a row if I dont get promoted in the next 20 games.


----------



## DoomDash

lol at throwing your games to get achievements.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Does anybody know if it's possible to go from bronze straight to diamond?

Probably.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Well I purposely lost my first 13-17 games so I can get my portraits quicker. I got put in bronze and started owning everybody all the way to 1500 diamond. Yet im still stuck in bronze XD.

Lame









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
You guys obviously havent seen CellaWerra troll the US servers.

2500 diamond worker rush when he's bored. Used to be top 50 WORLD*wide on his US account before he started taking his KR account more seriously.

Cellawerra is so funny. Did you hear about his 13gates build? xD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
just wondering what you guys think:

-will competitive starcraft 1 die now that there's 2?
-do you think LAN might come with the expansions or sometime, especially after that MLG bnet failure?
-does experience in starcraft 1 help improve your gameplay with 2? (macroing etc.)

-maybe when the current generation goes away. Maybe not even then.
-maybe. But if it happens, I think it'd be only for tournaments.
-yes. But I don't think it's worth it for just 2 months, there are a lot of features in SC2 that make it much easier to macro than in SC1 so you'd be spending your first month learning stuff that doesn't all apply to SC2.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yea I think the key is to lose 3+ games in a row. I might purposely lose 3 games in a row if I dont get promoted in the next 20 games.

Not necessarily in a row. I got promoted from silver to plat but I think I only lost 2 in a row, but 3 recently, when I got promoted.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



*On November 01 2010 18:54 Liquid`Jinro wrote:*

Quote:



*On November 01 2010 08:15 OutlaW- wrote:*
The most essential thing in this match up is dropping to kill his templar archives. Nothing else will work late mid game. If he goes collossus then you're a lucky bastard.


I would much prefer fighting HT over colossus - you can actually micro vs storm and you wont have to use all your time building vikings instead of medivacs (which sucks so ****ing hard now that medivacs cant outrun a snail and die in droves).

Colossus/HT is where the game gets really stupid tho ;/

Quote:



*On November 01 2010 15:44 MockHamill wrote:*
Thanks for the replies. So it seems that Terran vs Protoss is a general problem. I guess we have to wait for Blizzard to make a patch because right now, if you are not pro level, TvP is almost broken.


Nah, TvP is broken at pro level too -.-

TvP is only fine if you can force lots of small battles, or force toss to attack and expose himself... But ****, so many maps P can just FE, turtle, camp until he has a gigantic army and win.



What do you guy think?

also, PATCH COMING OUT!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty â€" Patch 1.1.3

General

- New game categories have been added to filter Tower Defense and Tug of War custom maps.

Balance

TERRAN

- Thor

+ This unit will now prioritize attacking ground combat units over Medivacs.

Bug Fixes

- Fixed a desync that could occur when trying to watch replays that had a dependency on bank files.

lol @ this patch.

I love that thor fix I actually lost a game because of that before I realized it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty â€" Patch 1.1.3

General

- New game categories have been added to filter Tower Defense and Tug of War custom maps.

Balance

TERRAN

- Thor

+ This unit will now prioritize attacking ground combat units over Medivacs.

Bug Fixes

- Fixed a desync that could occur when trying to watch replays that had a dependency on bank files.

lol @ this patch.

I love that thor fix I actually lost a game because of that before I realized it.


Aww







I won games in teams thanks to that


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't know about that. The pvt games I've had previously, it was the terran that turtles. `


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I don't know about that. The pvt games I've had previously, it was the terran that turtles. `


Terran turtling 99% of the time means you can easily out macro him.


----------



## thiru

Turtling terrans die because they let you get colossus and HT.


----------



## DoomDash

So I got something wrong in argument on scarena. I for some reason could have sworn that sensor towers would show even cloaked/burrowed units as "!" in the fog of war. I guess they don't... I swear I tested this in beta and they did, but I can't find any evidence to support it.

Makes me wonder how the technology behind the sensor tower works, because even a system like sonar should detect cloaked units.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So I got something wrong in argument on scarena. I for some reason could have sworn that sensor towers would show even cloaked/burrowed units as "!" in the fog of war. I guess they don't... I swear I tested this in beta and they did, but I can't find any evidence to support it.

Makes me wonder how the technology behind the sensor tower works, because even a system like sonar should detect cloaked units.


Lol that would make sensor towers so OP. I guess you don't use them?

Yes for burrowed units, but not necessarily for cloaked units, it would depend on the technology. Dark templars cloak by bending light around them, you can assume they know how to bend sound waves too.
(don't ask me "then why can lasers shoot DTs







)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Lol that would make sensor towers so OP. I guess you don't use them?

Yes for burrowed units, but not necessarily for cloaked units, it would depend on the technology. Dark templars cloak by bending light around them, you can assume they know how to bend sound waves too.
(don't ask me "then why can lasers shoot DTs







)


I use them all the time, but not too much against Protoss because Protoss players generally don't play in ways that make them very useful. My last game I even used them.

Mainly TvT or TvZ though.

Why would that make them OP? To know a cloaked unit is coming? I'm not saying reveal it more than just "!". But it's just like seeing a cloak blur but from further away, doesn't mean you'll be able to deal with it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I use them all the time, but not too much against Protoss because Protoss players generally don't play in ways that make them very useful. My last game I even used them.

Mainly TvT or TvZ though.

Why would that make them OP? To know a cloaked unit is coming? I'm not saying reveal it more than just "!". But it's just like seeing a cloak blur but from further away, doesn't mean you'll be able to deal with it.


Except you can't see a cloak blur on the minimap... gives you ample time to prepare


----------



## DoomDash

But how do you even know its cloaked? It's just a "!". It could be a Zealot or something, you won't know until you are in range. Once you are in range you'll see the blur anyway.

The only thing I think it would really hurt is maybe observers, so I guess it's fine. Just find it kind of odd I guess.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But how do you even know its cloaked? It's just a "!". It could be a Zealot or something, you won't know until you are in range. Once you are in range you'll see the blur anyway.

The only thing I think it would really hurt is maybe observers, so I guess it's fine. Just find it kind of odd I guess.


Hurr durr what's this "!" coming up? better go check it out with a few units.. wait there's nothing? BLUR?! ZOMG save scan, build turrets send raven, block the ramp!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Hurr durr what's this "!" coming up? better go check it out with a few units.. wait there's nothing? BLUR?! ZOMG save scan, build turrets send raven, block the ramp!


Generally if you have a sensor tower, you already have turrets up, since both require an EBay.

I don't see it being very useful against DT's, however Observers probably so I am fine with it the way it is.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What do you guy think?

also, PATCH COMING OUT!!!!!


Interesting interview for sure, as for the patch, well, only one fix to T. Would have preferred that they did more patching, but, meh, I can wait









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I use them all the time, but not too much against Protoss because Protoss players generally don't play in ways that make them very useful. My last game I even used them.

Mainly TvT or TvZ though.

Why would that make them OP? To know a cloaked unit is coming? I'm not saying reveal it more than just "!". But it's just like seeing a cloak blur but from further away, doesn't mean you'll be able to deal with it.


While I do agree that you'll only see the !, but, as thiru mentioned, that would pretty much eliminate scouting using observor and would reveal dts due to seeing nothing where the sensor was picking up something. BTW, I think sensor towers are great especially due to detecting drops, mutas, etc....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Hurr durr what's this "!" coming up? better go check it out with a few units.. wait there's nothing? *BLUR?! ZOMG *save scan, build turrets send raven, block the ramp!










However, I agree, dts are good because they are cloaked, if you know they are coming, well, it's pretty much gg for them


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Cellawerra is so funny. Did you hear about his 13gates build? xD


Of course I have ;D I am probably the biggest Cella-Fan. I've played FFA with him and other fans when he was doing a "first to join" on his stream. Sadly, they all cheated and rushed him.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Of course I have ;D I am probably the biggest Cella-Fan. I've played FFA with him and other fans when he was doing a "first to join" on his stream. Sadly, they all cheated and rushed him.


lol lucky you. I wish I could have seen him play that game, I was on vent with someone who was watching it and he was laughing his ass off the whole time


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Of course I have ;D I am probably the biggest Cella-Fan. I've played FFA with him and other fans when he was doing a "first to join" on his stream. Sadly, they *all cheated and rushed him*.










Makes me wonder what his reaction was afterwards







On the bright side, you did to play a game against him, although, it wasn't as long as you wanted, that I'm sure of


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


lol at throwing your games to get achievements.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Probably.
Lame










Hey the artanis portrait is sweet!! I hate waiting


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah turt terrans with seige tanks are my favourite type. I never get col or ht vs them and I still win. I keep them either on two or one base only. Out macro them and either hit their second/third base, or never allowing their third to go up. In those cases I always use DTs and immortals.


----------



## DoomDash

Good explaining on the thor change:

Quote:



Lets say you have two Stalkers. 250/100

I have 1 Medivac and 3 Marines. 250/100

Stalkers do 10 damage per 1.44 seconds to Light, and 14 per 1.44 to Armored.

Medivacs heal 13.5 HP per second. This is 19.44 HP per 1.44

So, if your two Stalkers are attacking the Marines and not the Medivac, because they are not killing it in one shot, they are literally doing 0.56 damage per shot until the Medivac runs out of energy.

Assuming the Medivac has full energy, this literally means that by the time your two Stalkers have killed 1 Marine, the 3 Marines have killed 9 Stalkers, or 3/4ths of a Nexus.

If they are attacking the Medivac, they are doing 28 damage per shot, and once they kill the Medivac, they will then kill the Marines. This actually results in them killing that first Marine 10 times faster, assuming the Medivac has full energy. The actual results will not be this severe, but it is a noticeable difference.

Now, you can get in a debate as to whether or not the AI should intelligently autotarget the Medivac because this results in it killing the enemy composition faster than if it did not autotarget the Medivac. That is obviously debatable.

However, Blizzard seems to think that it should autotarget the Medivac.

And lo, for every unit in the game that attacks both ground and air, it is better to target the Medivac first.

Except for the Thor.

Thus the change, it remains in line with the design plan that in a situation involving Medivacs, a units AI should attack the thing that results in it doing the most damage.

Edit: Also, because I know somebody is going to say "but in situations with larger unit numbers stuff will actually die blah blah this example is not applicable to a real game scenario" yes it's true that the larger the comps get the less silly the example will look, but the result will still be that it's better to target the Medivac first. The Terran player always wants to keep his Medivacs behind the drop units so the Stalker/Marine/Void Ray/Whatever cannot attack it.



I'd love to ladder tonight but I will wait till the patching is over so I don't get a disc.


----------



## DoomDash

Poor sc arena
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?board=4.0


----------



## thiru

lol xD


----------



## DoomDash

If they do nerf storm, I would like to see archons unable to be slowed from concussive shells.


----------



## DoomDash

This thread is getting lonely, come on fellas







.


----------



## thiru

lol


----------



## DoomDash

I should probably go to sleep before 8 am.


----------



## thiru

That you should.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No man, do what I do, sleep at 9 am after macdonalds breakfast; Wake up at 6pm.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


No man, do what I do, sleep at 9 am after macdonalds breakfast; Wake up at 6pm.


I go to McDonalds for breakfast with my gfs parents once or twice a month, and I can't say I really like it even that often.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

you don't like macdonalds breakfast?

I.. don't think we can be friends anymore..

On a completely different and off topic, TLO said that turning graphical options to low but textures to high, you can see cloaked units. Has anyone tried it and figured out the exact settings yet?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


you don't like macdonalds breakfast?

I.. don't think we can be friends anymore..

On a completely different and off topic, TLO said that turning graphical options to low but textures to high, you can see cloaked units. Has anyone tried it and figured out the exact settings yet?


I don't dislike it, but it gets pretty old. Honestly, Subway breakfast is the best chain breakfast







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


you don't like macdonalds breakfast?

I.. don't think we can be friends anymore..

On a completely different and off topic, TLO said that turning graphical options to low but textures to high, you can see cloaked units. Has anyone tried it and figured out the exact settings yet?


I think that's a misunderstanding. Setting graphics to low and textures to high doesn't change a cloaked unit's appearance when undetected one bit, but it does make cloaked units simply look like translucent units when detected (instead of that weird glowy thing).

I doubt Blizzard would be stupid enough to let something imbalanced like that slip.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes he just meant more visible.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey guys, saying as someone mentioned it's a bit quiet in here I thought id post the replay of the last game I just played there now. Its a gold level ZvZ and i get harrassed a lot by mutas. I had a look at the replay and there are some things I noticed myself to work on. For example I should have scouted more (I got lucky with his early ling attack), teched to lair a bit sooner (to get hydras or mutas) and spending my money a bit more.

I know about these things its just working on them under the pressure of 1v1. I got there in the end though, and if anyone wants to have a look and point out anyhting else I'd be happy to hear it.

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## DoomDash

I just have to brag about this in the SCII thread because I'm so damn happy.

I bought a 480 GTX on 8-10-2010. The 580 GTX just came out a couple days ago, and guess what? I qualify for the 90 day step it up program. I basically pay the difference in what I paid, and I get to exchange it for the 580 GTX. I only am paying $30 more Smiley. So happy, hopefully I did everything correctly so it works out.


----------



## thiru

Nice


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just have to brag about this in the SCII thread because I'm so damn happy.

I bought a 480 GTX on 8-10-2010. The 580 GTX just came out a couple days ago, and guess what? I qualify for the 90 day step it up program. I basically pay the difference in what I paid, and I get to exchange it for the 580 GTX. I only am paying $30 more Smiley. So happy, hopefully I did everything correctly so it works out.


My setup just ran out last week







.


----------



## turbocharged

Dude DoomDash, the 2 techlab 1 reactor build works awesome compared to my 2 techlab factory build. I just won both my games this morning against two players who were slightly favored and they didn't even feel close. Destroyed a protoss base that was photon cannoned to hell and held off a early zergling/roach rush.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Dude DoomDash, the 2 techlab 1 reactor build works awesome compared to my 2 techlab factory build. I just won both my games this morning against two players who were slightly favored and they didn't even feel close. Destroyed a protoss base that was photon cannoned to hell and held off a early zergling/roach rush.


Congrats







. As I said it's probably the easiest, most well rounded build Terran has. You can continue that while working on your other flaws in the mean time, and you'll be sick in no time.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't dislike it, but it gets pretty old. Honestly, Subway breakfast is the best chain breakfast







.


I love subway. I eat there 3-4 times a week lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think that's a misunderstanding. Setting graphics to low and textures to high doesn't change a cloaked unit's appearance when undetected one bit, but it does make cloaked units simply look like translucent units when detected (instead of that weird glowy thing).

I doubt Blizzard would be stupid enough to let something imbalanced like that slip.


I actually tested it just after watching this daily and it totally doesn't work for me. Actually it's much harder to see cloaked units on these setting than it is on ultra.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


My setup just ran out last week







.










Sorry to hear. I am on a waiting list or something right now. I just hope I registered everything right ect.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I love subway. I eat there 3-4 times a week lol.


Have you tried their breakfast yet?!?!?


----------



## poroboszcz

Not really a big fan of english breakfast and that's what they serve here (egg, sausage, bacon). I just eat their subs.


----------



## DoomDash

Subs are good too. We have 4 major sub places near me, Subway, Quizinos, Cousins, and Jimmy Johns. They all have their own unique tastes. If I had to rank them though: Cousins > Quizinos > Subway > Jimmy Johns.

Though all are good. You'd be impressed how fast you get your subs at Jimmy Johns. Usually before you are even finished paying your sub is ready.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Subs are good too. We have 4 major sub places near me, Subway, Quizinos, Cousins, and Jimmy Johns. They all have their own unique tastes. If I had to rank them though: Cousins > Quizinos > Subway > Jimmy Johns.

Though all are good. You'd be impressed how fast you get your subs at Jimmy Johns. Usually before you are even finished paying your sub is ready.

JimmyJohns> Subway> Quizinos

If you go to Jimmy's get extra meat+bacon..its the only way to go haha.

If I had to chose tho there is a place called Joegies Hoagies only on campus that is amazing. They put a lot of meat on for cheap. Only problem is they are only open 4 hours a day Mon-Fri during school seasons.

Edit: Wasn't including the dozens of Italian restaurants around here. Some of them are much better than these sub shops too.


----------



## poroboszcz

What are your favourite/least favourite maps?

My favourite is xel'naga. I also like metal as it often leads to epic multi-front games.

Least favourite: blistering sands - voted it down.


----------



## DoomDash

Fav's : Lost Temple, Xel'Naga, Delta, Steps

Least fav : Metal, Jungle Basin


----------



## turbocharged

For some reason I love Scrap Station, but rarely win there so I can't call it a favorite. Xel'naga is probably my favorite with Metalopolis close behind. Not a fan of blistering sands.


----------



## DoomDash

I like Blistering Sands, but the back door sucks for Terran.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I like Blistering Sands, but the back door sucks for Terran.

Kinda...it works about the same for tos and terran. I just had a terran attempt to break my back door. I had a pylon on the tower tho and i warped in units. As soon as he broke my door I came at him from both sides. Owned.









I think I passed you in points. Finally starting to use some bonus pool. Can't wait to break 2,000 in 2s!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Kinda...it works about the same for tos and terran. I just had a terran attempt to break my back door. I had a pylon on the tower tho and i warped in units. As soon as he broke my door I came at him from both sides. Owned.









I think I passed you in points. Finally starting to use some bonus pool. Can't wait to break 2,000 in 2s!

You are now 1 point ahead of me, but I have some bonus pool saved up now







.


----------



## Johnsen

Bought the game.. Lost a lot. Hated it.


----------



## poroboszcz

I hate those rocks on blistering. Used to 4 gate every single game on this map, but it got pretty boring.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Fav's : Lost Temple, Xel'Naga, Delta, Steps

Least fav : Metal, Jungle Basin

Why you don't like matal? I though it's pretty decent for terrans as you can do a lot of drops easily plus siege tanks are pretty good on it if you get good position on the high groud.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I hate those rocks on blistering. Used to 4 gate every single game on this map, but it got pretty boring.

Why you don't like matal? I though it's pretty decent for terrans as you can do a lot of drops easily plus siege tanks are pretty good on it if you get good position on the high groud.

I just hate everything about it. I personally think Terran macro sucks compared to P or T. I'm not even saying its a balance issue, but I just don't like maps that encourage crazy macro battles when I think it's something Terran is less good at. I hate the look of the map, it just looks boring to me. I guess I just never liked it. Maybe it's silly of me, who knows. It just feels like the least creative map ever.


----------



## turbocharged

The thing I love about metal is how much fun medivac drops are on it. Also its fun expanding to a second main.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If they do nerf storm, I would like to see archons unable to be slowed from concussive shells.

Agree, I feel archons are much weaker than SC1 due to the reduced splash as I recall, but, they are great to use once your HTs run out of energy









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
This thread is getting lonely, come on fellas







.

lol, lately thread activity has been going downside aside from whenever GSL and MLG are on. Seems like everyone is busy with life









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
you don't like macdonalds breakfast?
I.. don't think we can be friends anymore..

On a completely different and off topic, TLO said that turning graphical options to low but textures to high, you can see cloaked units. Has anyone tried it and figured out the exact settings yet?

You guys were friends?















How did this thread get derailed into talking about food again? lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I just have to brag about this in the SCII thread because I'm so damn happy.

I bought a 480 GTX on 8-10-2010. The 580 GTX just came out a couple days ago, and guess what? I qualify for the 90 day step it up program. I basically pay the difference in what I paid, and I get to exchange it for the 580 GTX. I only am paying $30 more Smiley. So happy, hopefully I did everything correctly so it works out.

Lucky you, I'm still stuck with my 8800GTS 512, but, it performs well with everything I play, so, no need to change yet









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I just hate everything about it. I personally think Terran macro sucks compared to P or *Z*. I'm not even saying its a balance issue, but I just don't like maps that encourage crazy macro battles when I think it's something Terran is less good at. I hate the look of the map, it just looks boring to me. I guess I just never liked it. Maybe it's silly of me, who knows. It just feels like the least creative map ever.

Fixed.
I dislike most of the maps we have due to the space for having a battle. Most maps have chokes leading to your base which is understandable, however, the middle of most maps also have chokes meaning that we can't get a large battle in any map which makes it much harder for Z to engage their opponent. My favourites are: Xelnaga Caverns, Metalopolis and Blistering Sands.
I dislike Scrap Station even though I used to play zerg and not a big fan of Jungle Basin, although, the distances to get to each other's bases are long so they benefit zerg like in Scrap Station


----------



## rhed5

Least fav map is Stepps of War - stupid map. reminds me of having blood bath as a ladder map in SC1.
Fav is Metalopolis -most balanced for all races

Love LT too. not the most balanced, but such a classic and probably played 1000 + games there throughout.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Least fav map is Stepps of War - stupid map. reminds me of having blood bath as a ladder map in SC1.
Fav is Metalopolis -most balanced for all races

Love LT too. not the most balanced, but such a classic and probably played 1000 + games there throughout.

I realize that steps is the closest Blizzard map, but its hardly comparable to Blood Bath. I cannot hit your main, or even remotely hit your main, with siege tanks. I can understand you not liking it, but the distances are night and day.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I realize that steps is the closest Blizzard map, but its hardly comparable to Blood Bath. I cannot hit your main, or even remotely hit your main, with siege tanks. I can understand you not liking it, but the distances are night and day.

No it's not as extreme as blood bath but take one step







from your natural and you can hit your opponent
Btw even in blood bath you coudln't hit the opoonent's main from siege tanks. His expo's mineral line? yes, but not the main.


----------



## DoomDash

Meh. Well I enjoy it, but I can see why Z's would hate it







.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Johnsen* 
Bought the game.. Lost a lot. Hated it.

Did you play through campaign? It just takes lots of practice to play good online. I would suggest 1v1ing the computer until that becomes too easy. When you lose watch the replays and think what you could have done to win.

Archons are one of the worst protoss units right up there with carriers. HT's are much much better. The only reason to use an archon is when you are in mid battle and it isn't looking good. They take forever to warp in.


----------



## DoomDash

I would like to see Archons warp in time reduced, and what I said about the conc shells no longer affecting them. I don't think they are awful units personally ( I used to love doing fast +1 chargelot ~ Archon ~ Templar in PvZ in beta ), but yeah they need to be more effective in those "oh **** I just got EMPed" situations.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I would like to see Archons warp in time reduced, and what I said about the conc shells no longer affecting them. I don't think they are awful units personally ( I used to love doing fast +1 chargelot ~ Archon ~ Templar in PvZ in beta ), but yeah they need to be more effective in those "oh **** I just got EMPed" situations.

EMP is a T's best friend and a P's worst nightmare







Not much you can do if your archons got emp'd other than removing them from the battle and have their shields regenerate


----------



## DoomDash

Well EMP isn't all that great against Archons because seriously 3 EMP's would be better used else where







. Soooo much shields







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well EMP isn't all that great against Archons because seriously 3 EMP's would be better used else where *







*. Soooo much shields *







*.

Fixed








I thought EMP took out all your shields regardless of how much you have, didn't realize it actually had a value attached to it


----------



## poroboszcz

Carriers aren't as bad as some people think. I usually get carriers late game in PvT and they are often game changing especially if terran relies on tanks too much. They are pretty cost effective against all terran units except BCs. Carrier + HT is awesome in PvT.

I agree archons suck, although not so much in PvZ. 2-4 archons can take down 20-30 mutas espacially with storm support. I once had a game when I killed nearly 30 mutas with 2 archons and 1 storm, because they happend to stack in a very unfortunate way and all died in like 2 seconds. They can also tank ultras quite well if you are caught without immortals and need something to buy time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Fixed








I thought EMP took out all your shields regardless of how much you have, didn't realize it actually had a value attached to it









What did you fix?

Also yeah, this isn't BW! EMP does 100 shields max. Can you imagine if it did full shields? Buildings.. Colossus... Archons....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
They are pretty cost effective against all terran units except BCs.

Vikings? Vikings > Carriers... and to be honest BC's kinda suck against Carriers except when they have cannon ready. You can actually kite BC's with Carriers... literally just fly away and do damage with no micro ( if he keeps chasing ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
*Carriers aren't as bad as some people think*. I usually get carriers late game in PvT and they are often game changing especially if terran relies on tanks too much. They are pretty cost effective against all terran units except BCs. Carrier + HT is awesome in PvT.

I agree archons suck, although not so much in PvZ. 2-4 archons can take down 20-30 mutas espacially with storm support. I once had a game when I killed nearly 30 mutas with 2 archons and 1 storm, because they happend to stack in a very unfortunate way and all died in like 2 seconds. They can also tank ultras quite well if you are caught without immortals and need something to buy time.

Agreed, infact, I think someone once posted that they actually do double the damage that they did in SC1. Carriers are great against most units, BCs with yamato cannon can be a bit problematic though, but,

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*What did you fix?*

Also yeah, this isn't BW! EMP does 100 shields max. Can you imagine if it did full shields? Buildings.. Colossus... Archons....

The smiley







It's probably good that it only does 100 shields max, otherwise, can you imagine someone using an EMP on a large number of archons. It's pretty much GG for the P player









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Vikings? Vikings > Carriers... and to be honest BC's kinda suck against Carriers except when they have cannon ready. You can actually kite BC's with Carriers... literally just fly away and do damage with no micro ( if he keeps chasing ).

Well, vikings are good, but, you really need the numbers to back them up, otherwise, a pack of carriers will take down all your vikings rather quick


----------



## poroboszcz

I was surprised as well but carriers are actually cost neutral vs vikings, ie. 1 carrier with interceptors (450/250) will kill 3 vikings (450/225).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I was surprised as well but carriers are actually cost neutral vs vikings, ie. 1 carrier with interceptors (450/250) will kill 3 vikings (450/225).

Interesting, I think most forget how much damage a carrier can really do and consider the range and damage of vikings instead thus leading to the argument that vikings counter carriers


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I was surprised as well but carriers are actually cost neutral vs vikings, ie. 1 carrier with interceptors (450/250) will kill 3 vikings (450/225).

Even if they are equal cost, and we exchange, Terran will come out on top ( if we are doing purely viking and carrier ) simply because of build time. I always try to think about build times when I compare units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Even if they are equal cost, and we exchange, Terran will come out on top ( if we are doing purely viking and carrier ) simply because of build time. I always try to think about build times when I compare units.

True, you could use chronoboost as well to get carriers out faster, but, still with a reactor, you can make 4 vikings much faster than 1 carrier(assuming you have two starports and 1 stargate)


----------



## EmMure

53 wins 71 loses in 1v1 im creeping up


----------



## yks

Sorry, Carriers suck. End of story.

No unit composition works well with Carriers, atm.

Colossi + Carrier? Lol Viking. Which is MORE cost/speed effective cause you can go reactor. and Lol Corruptor which serves better transitions cause of BL tech

HT + Carrier? I personally haven't tested it, but I think I read on TL that you can Storm your own crap-hp-interceptor? Someone might want to check up on that. Even if you can't, bye-bye mobility. And mobility is the key to the game, hydras would rape face if they were just as fast on and off the creep.

(Both mix contains gateway units, obviously)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
53 wins 71 loses in 1v1 im creeping up

GJ, keep at it. Soon, enough you'll hit some silver players and move up


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Sorry, Carriers suck. End of story.

No unit composition works well with Carriers, atm.

Colossi + Carrier? Lol Viking. Which is MORE cost/speed effective cause you can go reactor. and Lol Corruptor which serves better transitions cause of BL tech

HT + Carrier? I personally haven't tested it, but I think I read on TL that you can Storm your own crap-hp-interceptor? Someone might want to check up on that. Even if you can't, bye-bye mobility. And mobility is the key to the game, hydras would rape face if they were just as fast on and off the creep.

(Both mix contains gateway units, obviously)

I actually think Phoenix + Carrier could work against Terran maybe. Phoenix actually beat Vikings 1v1 some how.


----------



## poroboszcz

That's why I said it's a late late game option, especially against terran with tanks and coupled with HT to storm marines trying to get in range to kill carriers. I'm talking more of being on 3-4 bases with 3-4 stargates pumping carriers to support your main army rather than relying just on carriers. Doesn't happen very often, but once the game gets to this stage I don't see a reason not to go for carriers.

Edit: I've actually seen it working in a couple of high level games, will try to find some VODs. I remember Socke and some korean toss doing it. Btw tank heavy terran is not very mobile either.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Sorry, Carriers suck. End of story.

No unit composition works well with Carriers, atm.

Colossi + Carrier? Lol Viking. Which is MORE cost/speed effective cause you can go reactor. and Lol Corruptor which serves better transitions cause of BL tech

HT + Carrier? I personally haven't tested it, but I think I read on TL that you can Storm your own crap-hp-interceptor? Someone might want to check up on that. Even if you can't, bye-bye mobility. And mobility is the key to the game, hydras would rape face if they were just as fast on and off the creep.

(Both mix contains gateway units, obviously)

Well, its a good idea to mix some carriers into your unit combo, however, don't rely on them fully like in SC1, because, they'll likely lose then! I was playing a custom against a Plat Z who was playing as P and I had him contained as T and moved in for the kill. My MMT combo was easily taking down his zealot+stalker+sentry army, then he has 4-5 carriers and wipes out my force. He proceeds to attack my base at which point I start getting lots of marines+thors. I think it took me 10 minutes or so to take down all 4-5 carrier using a TON of marines+5-6 thors min since everytime I'll get a couple of shots before my thor was gone. He had enough time to take over a gold exp, get colossi and wipe out my exp, etc.... My point was that carriers on their own aren't bad but they are better supported with gateway units


----------



## DoomDash

Tanks are much fun though.

On a side note, I think I'm going to quit foruming. I spend wayyyy too much time on them. However, I do think I will stick around here because I really enjoy these forums and computing. Specifically giving up on any balance issues on SCArena, TL, ect. Waste of time.. and I don't know why I keep letting myself get sucked into it.


----------



## BigFan

oops, see below


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Tanks are much fun though.

lol, yes, but, they obviously stink against air as evidenced from my previous post







I should mention that on ground, they are almost unrivalled due to their longe range and 50 damage vs. armored









Edit: Just saw your edit:
Well, TBH, I've never QQ'd on any forums about SC2. I just don't see the reason to. I mean Blizzard is going to fix the game and patch it the way they want, so, why waste my time, since, I trust that they will do their best to fix the game, so, that no race is UP or OP and this is coming from someone who was playing zerg when they were considered UP









Edit2: Just read my own edit and that's one long sentence








On a side note, I decided to stick to zerg for now until I get my P and T up to speed. I feel comfortable playing as T due to knowing good strats and the general mechanics, etc.... for the race but I'm pretty horrible at P and cringe everytime I think I'll get P when choosing random. I think my playing style is just Z since I love all the different units we have even hydras and BLs


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
GJ, keep at it. Soon, enough you'll hit some silver players and move up









ive alrdy played silver plays lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, yes, but, they obviously stink against air as evidenced from my previous post







I should mention that on ground, they are almost unrivalled due to their longe range and 50 damage vs. armored









They are no SC1 tank, but I still love them.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Tanks are much fun though.

On a side note, I think I'm going to quit foruming. I spend wayyyy too much time on them. However, I do think I will stick around here because I really enjoy these forums and computing. Specifically giving up on any balance issues on SCArena, TL, ect. Waste of time.. and I don't know why I keep letting myself get sucked into it.

Lol, I have the same problem. I'm supposed to be working on some projects and don't really have time to play, but I still keep just refreshing these forums and effectively wasting all the time. I gave up on TL.net some time ago. I just browse it on a daily basis to see if there are any new threads actually worth reading or streams worth watching.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I actually think Phoenix + Carrier could work against Terran maybe. Phoenix actually beat Vikings 1v1 some how.

Simultaneous Phoenix + Carrier is like trying to do simultaneous Immortal + Colossi. It sounds bad-ass, but the timings are horrible. There's just too many holes. Sure there are builds where people get Immortals while they wait on the Robo-Bay but once the bay is up Immortal production stops. But Pheonix' are one of those units that you constantly need to keep their count very high.

It's like what day9 says, "Oh i'm gonna do this, and if he does this, i'll do that, then he'll do this, so I'll get that. *STOP* and just go f*cking kill him. *STOP* worrying about counters and just go f*cking kill him. cause chances are his composition is weak"

Also, what a lot of Pros and Day9 say is transition and getting to the late game. People don't normally start off with carrier cause you'll most likely lose before you get to the late-game. So people go Robo-builds, or Gate-builds to survive early/mid-game.

But how well do those builds TRANSITION into Stargate tech for late-game? People go Colossi + HT for late game cause you already have the Gateways and Warp-tech. Just add the archives. It's not so simple adding Stargate+Fleet Beacon+Build Time.

Transitioning is just horrid timing.

The Day9's that come into mind are the Newbie-Tuesday talking about dealing with Colossi. @ the question section people bring up getting corruptors to deal with the Colossi, Day9 says "Yes! Corruptors would do very well against the Colossi. TOO bad there wasn't enough time. cause if you try to switch tech, you'll just lose your whole f`ing base"


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azoCvWoS7RU





An epic game with carriers. Not really what I meant, but it has carriers.









All socke games I coud find are either casted in german or don't contain carriers sadly.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
ive alrdy played silver plays lol

lol, did you win?







All I can really say is if you can win against silver players, then eventually, you'll get promoted up









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
They are no SC1 tank, but I still love them.

Actually, they are pretty comparable to SC1 tank, as in they do similar damage to SC1, something like 100% massive, 75% med and 50% light in SC1 which is on par with SC2 light and armored damage









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Lol, I have the same problem. I'm supposed to be working on some projects and don't really have time to play, but I still keep just refreshing these forums and effectively wasting all the time. I gave up on TL.net some time ago. I just browse it on a daily basis to see if there are any new threads actually worth reading or streams worth watching.

lol, I think we all have the same project. I'm trying to write something but keep refreshing this thread to see if there are any new posts









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Simultaneous Phoenix + Carrier is like trying to do simultaneous Immortal + Colossi. It sounds bad-ass, but the timings are horrible. There's just too many holes. Sure there are builds where people get Immortals while they wait on the Robo-Bay but once the bay is up Immortal production stops. But Pheonix' are one of those units that you constantly need to keep their count very high.

It's like what day9 says, *"Oh i'm gonna do this, and if he does this, i'll do that, then he'll do this, so I'll get that. STOP and just go f*cking kill him. STOP worrying about counters and just go f*cking kill him. cause chances are his composition is weak"*

Also, what a lot of Pros and Day9 say is transition and getting to the late game. People don't normally start off with carrier cause you'll most likely lose before you get to the late-game. So people go Robo-builds, or Gate-builds to survive early/mid-game.

But how well do those builds TRANSITION into Stargate tech for late-game? People go Colossi + HT for late game cause you already have the Gateways and Warp-tech. Just add the archives. It's not so simple adding Stargate+Fleet Beacon+Build Time.

Transitioning is just horrid timing.

The Day9's that come into mind are the Newbie-Tuesday talking about dealing with Colossi. @ the question section people bring up getting corruptors to deal with the Colossi, Day9 says "Yes! Corruptors would do very well against the Colossi. TOO bad there wasn't enough time. cause if you try to switch tech, you'll just lose your whole f`ing base"

Transitioning can be horrid for any race excluding Z since we have to build just a single structure to produce said unit, however, getting that structure destroyed means no more said unit







I do like the bolded part. My problem is that if I try to attack, I'm worried about losing all my units against a turtled opponent which means that if they counter-attack, I will almost have no units which means I'll easily lose. Of course, I can build some units before they come to my base but you get the point as in it seems to be a waste trying to attack a T or P who is turtling since you need to break that barrier and even then you are still at a choke which is a disadvantage for Z if you are using slings+roaches due to their melee and 4 range respectively


----------



## EmMure

yea i did win.lol ive only lost 3 games outta my last like 30 lol


----------



## EmMure

a turtle isnt hard to beat down fan lol i do it all the time vs t and p u just have to focus fire the cannons or tanks and keep funneling in units close by


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If they do nerf storm, I would like to see archons unable to be slowed from concussive shells.

If they nerf storm, Im going back to colossus









Are they nerfing their damage or radius?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Sorry, Carriers suck. End of story.

No unit composition works well with Carriers, atm.

Colossi + Carrier? Lol Viking. Which is MORE cost/speed effective cause you can go reactor. and Lol Corruptor which serves better transitions cause of BL tech

HT + Carrier? I personally haven't tested it, but I think I read on TL that you can Storm your own crap-hp-interceptor? Someone might want to check up on that. Even if you can't, bye-bye mobility. And mobility is the key to the game, hydras would rape face if they were just as fast on and off the creep.

(Both mix contains gateway units, obviously)

Have you tried a 2 gate carrier rush? It works quite well if you catch your opponent off guard.

I dont see the point of wasting all of that gas just to tech up to colossus/HT to mix with your carriers. You just need zealot/stalker/sentry. Mostly zealots though.

I actually just won a game with this strategy yesterday. You just have to know how to micro them back and forth. Its micro mechanics are similar to colossus since people will try to focus one down at a time.

The key is to survive until you can get your first carrier. Works best on a map like scrap station.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
a turtle isnt hard to beat down fan lol i do it all the time vs t and p u just have to focus fire the cannons or tanks and keep funneling in units close by

lol, you'll be surprised, but, I rarely try to take down a wall. My point was that I'll have to waste a decent amount of units to get through which automatically means that it *could* be a bad idea. I've only ever used a baneling bust once or twice, but, I'll rather try a drop into their base, so, that I can at least target their SCVs or some important structure. Nydusing also works well especially on maps like metropolis. All the P or T has to do is rebuild the barracks/supply depot or pylon/gateway and my bust would've been for wasted. I was also trying to make the point that if you haven't scouted what they have, it could mean a GG. Think of it this way:
I had a game yesterday against a T. He attacked with a small MT force that I easily took down. Tried some banshee harass but after the first time, it failed, so, he went mass Thors. Had I decided to use my slings+roaches to try and taken down his wall, even if I used blings to take it down, the choke would've meant that most of my roaches would've die from his 7-8 thors due to their range and the fact that only so many can fit onto the ramp. He ended up attacking me with those thors and I was able to come out on top due to having the better force, although, it was rather close. If I used that same force to break down his wall, well, I might've lost that game if he attacked with his thors right after. See my point?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Have you tried a 2 gate carrier rush? It works quite well if you catch your opponent off guard.

I actually just won a game with this strategy yesterday. You just have to know how to micro them back and forth. Its micro mechanics are similar to colossus since people will try to focus one down at a time.

I think there was a game that HuK tried to go quick carrier against a T opponent and he managed to get his first carrier JUST as the opponent attacked him on blistering sands with a small MM force. Carriers are good to use and mass if you have several bases and some ground support since in groups, they can take down most air units rather quickly


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I learned the basic build order from Huk's replay. What I do is go with my usual 1gate/cyber opening. After that cyber completes, poke in with a probe into their base and check to see if they are doing an early push/getting FE, look for production buildings, # of units. If you feel threatened, throw up your second gate, if your opponent is turtling, throw up your stargate before 2nd gateway.

Save chrono boosts for carrier. I had close to 100 energy when my stargate went up. Had penty of chrono boosts for a few carriers. Destroy the center rocks and push in. Leave carriers behind your units.

You can go the scenic route and attack with your carrier and gateway units from two different points but in this particular game I kept my army together since my opponent's stalkers would focus down my carriers. I can use my zealots to attack his stalkers while they focus my carriers.

Take out all pylons with carriers and it's GG.


----------



## EmMure

dont be a baby fan lol just joke down his wall


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
dont be a baby fan lol just joke down his wall

nah, I'd rather outmacro him, make a huge army, take down his wall, lose my army then rebuild right afterwards due to having several saturated bases and several hatcheries. That's the true way to play. There is a reason that during pro games, they'll say it's better to build on an advantage(just won against him in a battle) rather than trying to win him right after the battle


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
yea i did win.lol ive only lost 3 games outta my last like 30 lol

What is your rank in your bronze league?

I'm 33 wins - 26 losses and rank 20 with like 31 wins in my last 40 games. Just curious how you compare so we can better see how promotion works.


----------



## rhed5

anyone up for some 1v1 games tonight? diamond lev
My id & cc below


----------



## thiru

The only use of carriers I've ever seen work was carrier + HT + zealots (excess minerals) against zerg, back when corrupters used energy. Feedback kept your carriers alive more effectively than any anti air protoss had, and hydras are so easy to storm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The only use of carriers I've ever seen work was carrier + HT + zealots (excess minerals) against zerg, back when corrupters used energy. Feedback kept your carriers alive more effectively than any anti air protoss had, and hydras are so easy to storm.


One thing though, how many hts are we talking about and then you gotta make sure that you don't lose them as well as making sure that you have enough energy to feedback and storm as well


----------



## thiru

Cellawerra is pulling off a 13gates again


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Cellawerra is pulling off a 13gates again









where?


----------



## thiru

http://www.livestream.com/cellawerra


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.livestream.com/cellawerra


Wow, I can't handle livestream quality...I can barely make out units.


----------



## thiru

You don't really need to see exactly what's he doing since he's basically trolling the US servers


----------



## burwij

Please tell me someone else is watching him sing "Hit Me Baby One More Time" karaoke, rofl.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Please tell me someone else is watching him sing "Hit Me Baby One More Time" karaoke, rofl.


Hahahah viewer count went down 300


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


Please tell me someone else is watching him sing "Hit Me Baby One More Time" karaoke, rofl.


That's when I stopped watching. >_<


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone wanna test this 2gate stuff?


----------



## ThumperSD

Any way you can get on US servers? Let me know, I can do it real quick


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Any way you can get on US servers? Let me know, I can do it real quick


I don't have much time either, but just need some break from writing a report. Waiting for doom now for permission to use his account, but he seems to be offline.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't have much time either, but just need some break from writing a report. Waiting for doom now for permission to use his account, but he seems to be offline.


Just go


----------



## yks

I got my account back. Hopefully it stays this way. Time to climb 2k diamond.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I got my account back. Hopefully it stays this way. Time to climb 2k diamond.


Good to know


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I got my account back. Hopefully it stays this way. Time to climb 2k diamond.


Nice, do you mind if I ask the procedure as to which you got your account as in what they required? Mostly curious is all









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just go










x2


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I got my account back. Hopefully it stays this way. Time to climb 2k diamond.


What happened to your account any way?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Nice, do you mind if I ask the procedure as to which you got your account as in what they required? Mostly curious is all










Super easy.

I called, they asked for my first and last name. Then they asked for my b.net email. Then they asked what can they do for me. I told them.

Asked me a few questions like, "Do you play anywhere else?" "Do you play on a laptop with a wireless connection?" "Desktop? Oh. Is that on a wireless connection?" "Okay, please wait 1 moment while I do an IP check on your account"

Once that checks out they tell me, "BUY AN AUTHENTICATOR, YOU NOOB, You're probably computer-illiterate, so get an authenticator." Well, he didn't actually say it like that, he was really polite, that's just my bruised-ego talking for somehow getting hacked.

Then they asked for my secret question and voila. password reset link to email of my choice.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What happened to your account any way?


My B.Net account got stolen for the WoW part. They deleted all my Gladiators =[


----------



## EmMure

my opponent didnt show up for our match in the pny tourney lol


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


My B.Net account got stolen for the WoW part. They deleted all my Gladiators =[


What class did you play? I had a couple of Glad teams on my Ret Pally in S5, would have hit Glad again in S6 but we all quit the game









A couple of my friends got hacked in March/April despite the fact that none of us had anything active on our battle.net accounts; I figured that was a good time to grab an authenticator. 7 bucks for peace of mind and safeguarding future purchases didn't seem too bad. Regardless of whether or not you're ultra careful, all it takes is one drunken night of clicking on that "Heart of the Swarm Beta Invite LOL!" email and you're screwed.

On the bright side, Blizzard has gotten a lot better at addressing account security issues. I remember people having their accounts hacked 3-4 years ago at level 60; it could take upwards of a month to have everything restored and even then you'd likely be missing a lot of stuff.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


my opponent didnt show up for our match in the pny tourney lol


lol, grats. I just finished playing an 1800 Zerg, had an epic comeback after losing game 1.

ZvZ still makes me want to kick puppies, I randomed Zerg twice.


----------



## EmMure

sucks,i even gave him an extra 45 mins to show up unstead of 15 but nothing,so now i have to report he forfeited but w.e lol


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


What class did you play? I had a couple of Glad teams on my Ret Pally in S5, would have hit Glad again in S6 but we all quit the game










Lock and Druid back when they were super imba.

Now they're only marginally imba. ;]

That and 12k of my 20k gold only got restored =[


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


If they nerf storm, Im going back to colossus









Are they nerfing their damage or radius?


No one knows for sure. Might not nerf it at all. They were looking at it.


----------



## DoomDash

Cleared 1800 finally ( 1815 ). W00t.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cleared 1800 finally ( 1815 ). W00t.


lol, when are you playing your games? Haven't seen you online/played against each other in such a long time(>1 month min)


----------



## DoomDash

I only ladder, get on, get off. I should practice though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I only ladder, get on, get off. I should practice though.


I see.... I kinda do something similar, although, I've been playing some team games recently to take a break from 1vs1 and it seems to help


----------



## DoomDash

Well as you know I'm not really a fan of team games. They are OK... but ladder is my true love.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well as you know I'm not really a fan of team games. They are OK... but ladder is my true love.


While ladder is indeed the test of skill, playing team games is great for relaxing, working on build orders, testing different strats and their feasibilities, etc.... I mean I wouldn't try and play a game by using a totally different build order such as skipping my queen, upgrading to hive right away, getting a spire up and then massing mutas on one base while using 3-4 spine crawlers as my only defense. It's almost suicidal to consider it, but, at least if I'm playing a team game, I can try such an obvious risky strategy and depending on who my partner is, he might be able to provide me with the defense which I tech up rather quickly. My point is it's more to have fun and allows you to test strats that you can't do/might not be able to do when playing 1vs1


----------



## DoomDash

I test 1v1 strats in 1v1.







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I test 1v1 strats in 1v1.







.


lol, until I'm able to defend against everything the enemy throws, I'll much rather test them in team games, unless I decide otherwise for whatever reason


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, until I'm able to defend against everything the enemy throws, I'll much rather test them in team games, unless I decide otherwise for whatever reason










But it's unrealistic to try and defend against everything the enemy throws at you in team games because you have more than 1 enemy.. so you'll be overcompensating in defense and you'll never ever really know how little you can get away with.

And thats the most important thing as zerg. Defending with as little as possible


----------



## thiru

Newegg Wanfest

loads of prizes!


----------



## ThumperSD

Just tried poroboszcz's korean 2 gate lol. I couldnt hold it off with 9pylon/12gate/cyber/14gas.

Never seen this particular 2 gate yet. 10 pylon/10gate/11gate proxy is pretty impossible to hold off unless you get a 2 gate yourself.


----------



## thiru

Tried forge wall off?
wait what's a korean 2 gate?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


But it's unrealistic to try and defend against everything the enemy throws at you in team games because you have more than 1 enemy.. so you'll be overcompensating in defense and you'll never ever really know how little you can get away with.

And thats the most important thing as zerg. Defending with as little as possible


Ya, that defense was about 1vs1, not 2vs2. All I was pointing was that I didn't want to test some techniques in 1vs1, since, I can lose points on the line whereas I don't care as much in team games, although, I should note that any techniques I try in 2vs2, I usually do them after I made sure I have some units and defense in my base









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Tried forge wall off?
wait what's a korean 2 gate?


It's 10 gate/10 gate/11 gate as he mentioned above ^^ 
That wanfest you posted sounds interesting, anyone here entering?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Tried forge wall off?
wait what's a korean 2 gate?


No I was trying to show him how to hold it off with gate/cyber. Thing is Ive only used it against 12/13 non-proxy gate.

It can be held off if you dont tech too early.


----------



## DoomDash

If you see 2 gate proxy you should just wall in with the gate / cyber.


----------



## ThumperSD

^ The thing is that you throw up your pylon before you scout


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


^ The thing is that you throw up your pylon before you scout


I guess you could throw your first pylon in a way that if you see this cheese, you can immediately throw your gate and cyber to wall off. Without building the pylon too close to the ramp, since most games aren't zealot proxies.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, I don't know if it's called korean 2 gate. I was referring to korean 4 gate, when I said why it's better to scout at 9. I guess you're familiar with it. If not I can show you. Unlike this 2 gate build it's something I actually use on ladder sometimes and it's pretty strong all-in.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you see 2 gate proxy you should just wall in with the gate / cyber.


Assuming you are going to build at ramp which normally isn't a good idea in PvP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, I don't know if it's called korean 2 gate. I was referring to korean 4 gate, when I said why it's better to scout at 9. I guess you're familiar with it. If not I can show you. Unlike this 2 gate build it's something I actually use on ladder sometimes and it's pretty strong all-in.

Assuming you are going to build at ramp which normally isn't a good idea in PvP.


You don't need to build it at your ramp exactly. Do it slightly back a ways, but still with enough power field to do a block. Honestly if you are worried about 2 gate that should be standard. After sending the scouting probe out ( pylon probe ), you can easily adjust accordingly from there. No matter what if you get stalkers when they are still on Zealot tech, you'll come out ahead.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't need to build it at your ramp exactly. Do it slightly back a ways, but still with enough power field to do a block. Honestly if you are worried about 2 gate that should be standard. After sending the scouting probe out ( pylon probe ), you can easily adjust accordingly from there. No matter what if you get stalkers when they are still on Zealot tech, you'll come out ahead.


I'm not worried as I don't get core against it. The thing is that often you'll have to place your gate before you actually scout his base. And gate at ramp will be more of a problem than help against any normal build.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I dont recommend building them at your choke vs protoss since they can FF behind those gateways and snipe them out without your own stalkers being able to do anything behind the FF.


----------



## DoomDash

If you build like this, you'll be fine. Now, take a look at the Pylon that is closest to the ramp. That is part of the block, HOWEVER, if you don't build that pylon you can use a hold position Zealot there. This forces Zealots to 1 on 1, and you can just chrono more out behind him on hold position. You will constantly be exchanging zealots at the same rate, and it won't matter if he has more producing. The buildings have enough life to stall for a stalker or sentry.









Yes building at your ramp isn't ideal, but again, if he proxy 2 gates you'll be way ahead so you shouldn't have to worry about ramp harass from ranged units.


----------



## ThumperSD

That might work. You should test it out.

You sure they cant 2v1 the zealot though? I know zerglings can from that position


----------



## DoomDash

90% sure. Just a thought. I mean honestly I haven't played against this, so I probably shouldn't talk... but I can theorize.


----------



## EgoProxy

Hey! LiquidTLO uses senn HD555s! <3


----------



## DoomDash

State of the game should drop soon. I love SoTG.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you build like this, you'll be fine. Now, take a look at the Pylon that is closest to the ramp. That is part of the block, HOWEVER, if you don't build that pylon you can use a hold position Zealot there. This forces Zealots to 1 on 1, and you can just chrono more out behind him on hold position. You will constantly be exchanging zealots at the same rate, and it won't matter if he has more producing. The buildings have enough life to stall for a stalker or sentry.









Yes building at your ramp isn't ideal, but again, if he proxy 2 gates you'll be way ahead so you shouldn't have to worry about ramp harass from ranged units.



There's not enough space there for a stalker to walk through. If you do that you need to build robo at expo and have blink to come out of main; Or you can warp units outside of the main.


----------



## thiru

Yeah there is. It's one unit wide.

edit: if you don't make the second pylon, which he said.


----------



## DoomDash

Honestly once you get one, you can start rallying them outside your ramp instead. If you go robobay you get get a prism, or as you said you can get blink.

Not sure if its stalker room.


----------



## EmMure

as toss walling off vs another toss is kinda ******ed,vs zerg its smart if he 6pools..


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


as toss walling off vs another toss is kinda ******ed,vs zerg its smart if he 6pools..


It's only if the other protoss 2 gates.


----------



## DoomDash

http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/

2 hour long state of the game







.


----------



## yks

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2...dallas-replays

MLG Dallas Replays.


----------



## thiru

I downloaded them but I don't think I'll watch them much..
Oh and

  
 You Tube  



 
Unstoppable 13gates build.


----------



## thiru

Quote:












_Look at your favourite player, now back at me, now back at your favourite player. Your favourite player will never be me, but if he is talented and practices hard enough and plays well enough to be invited to join Liquid, he could be on the same team as me. Look at your hands, now look at me - I'm multi-nuking someone. Now I'm holding a cheque.

When you're Liquid, anything is possible. I'm on a battlecruiser.








_


Source

I lol'd


----------



## EmMure

ok that seriously made me laugh lol


----------



## ThumperSD

I wish I was good enough to make money playing SC2


----------



## DoomDash

Don't we all. I almost won very small money in our tourney.. but almost doesn't cut it







.


----------



## EmMure

do u ever sleep doom?lol


----------



## DoomDash

Sometimes.


----------



## DoomDash

So tanks still suck vs Protoss.

and I decided to play Zerg on my huggle account again for a game. Got a ZvZ and beat a 1900+ Zerg player first try, yay. I didn't even make banes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Source

I lol'd











Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
do u ever sleep doom?lol

lol, I told him that it's not a good idea to sleep during the day and that there is a reason that it goes dark, but, his choice


----------



## Nevaziah

Yesterday i played one of the WORST games i`d ever played. It was on blistering sands I was zerg, he was protos. I quick expanded to my natural ( i was at the 7 O'clock position ) and i just noticed at the top right of the screen 2 gateways and a pylon building. I cancel the expo, drop my pool, bring drones and take out his pylon, but not before ONE zealot spawns and pwnz about 4 or 5 of my drones.

The pool finishes and I drop a crawler but he came back and drops a pylon next to the gates at my natural, which I attack with drones again and it dies but 2 zealots pop out of the gates RIGHT as it dies, then he drops FOUR pylons around the dead gates.... At that point I`m still calm, knowing that once my crawler finishes, I got this. He walks in and kills the thing before its done but my drones take out both his zealots.

I go ALl the way back to my base, make 8 lings and a queen, drop 3 crawlers IN my mineral line and rush out to his nexus with the lings. The lings take out his 8? workers... and the four zealots he spawns cant get to my crawlrers. I learned NOT to attack the zealots with the drones but just walk them around the crawlers and the queen and hold. they(the drones) wont attack and he has to take out the drones ONE by one.

I win this one with 2 crawlers left. Long story short, dont panic when you get cheezed just this long term cause odds are, the dood has a pitiful economy or has a completely undefended base....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Yesterday i played one of the WORST games i`d ever played. It was on blistering sands I was zerg, he was protos. I quick expanded to my natural ( i was at the 7 O'clock position ) and i just noticed at the top right of the screen 2 gateways and a pylon building. I cancel the expo, drop my pool, bring drones and take out his pylon, but not before ONE zealot spawns and pwnz about 4 or 5 of my drones.

The pool finishes and I drop a crawler but he came back and drops a pylon next to the gates at my natural, which I attack with drones again and it dies but 2 zealots pop out of the gates RIGHT as it dies, then he drops FOUR pylons around the dead gates.... At that point I`m still calm, knowing that once my crawler finishes, I got this. He walks in and kills the thing before its done but my drones take out both his zealots.

I go ALl the way back to my base, make 8 lings and a queen, drop 3 crawlers IN my mineral line and rush out to his nexus with the lings. The lings take out his 8? workers... and the four zealots he spawns cant get to my crawlrers. I learned NOT to attack the zealots with the drones but just walk them around the crawlers and the queen and hold. they(the drones) wont attack and he has to take out the drones ONE by one.

I win this one with 2 crawlers left. Long story short, dont panic when you get cheezed just this long term cause odds are, the dood has a pitiful economy or has a completely undefended base....

wow, lol, reminds me of a game I had as a zerg against a P on blistering sands. It was when I was on my losing streak and I ended up winning this game. What happened was that I scouted my opponent using a drone and used a drone to attack his only pylon. Seeing as he had no gates, I sent my first 6 lings JUST as 1-2 zealots come from around the corner near my natural(1st exp). They follow me back to their base where I take out some probes and micro them away. I danced my drones+lings around and then lead the zealots back to my base. In the meantime, I mass zlings+spine crawlers. Once I researched speed, I used all my slings to slip past the zealots to go to his main and since my drone hasn't died yet, I decide to make a hatchery right near his nexus. Long story short, my slings tear up his base and he decides to attack mine with his 7-8 zealots. My queen+8 slings or so+4 crawlers tore his zealots a new one before he had a chance to even take a swing at a drone


----------



## Nevaziah

those games can be fun sometimes because its preety much non-stop action. But in retrospect at the end of the game, you sit back and realise that it was a ****ty game. Whoever`s cheezing got caught with their pants down and their all in strategy just crumbles cause there`s no plan after the cheeze really. Which is why i dont use any proxy or all in strategies, cause if it fails, then what? No exit strategy...


----------



## poroboszcz

Zealot rushes again zerg are pretty lame, especially after nerf, and proxy against zerg is a bad idea in general. Cannoning an expansion and blocking the bottom of the ramp with pylons is pretty good though and not an all in.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
those games can be fun sometimes because its preety much non-stop action. But in retrospect at the end of the game, you sit back and realise that it was a ****ty game. Whoever`s cheezing got caught with their pants down and their all in strategy just crumbles cause there`s no plan after the cheeze really. Which is why i dont use any proxy or all in strategies, cause if it fails, then what? No exit strategy...

I agree, I like games that have a lot of action. TBH, whenever I win a close game, I find it much more exhilarating since you HAD to work a lot to win it, unlike some games where you can just A-move into their base, well, maybe not just A-move into their base(you always need micro), but, you get my point. As for the hatchery inbase, that wasn't my plan, I was going to plan a standard game, usual exp time, get roaches, get mutas for harass, etc.... but since I saw that he only had a pylon(didn't realize that he had 2 gates near my base), I decided to attack with lings and then I wanted to use that drone, so, I thought, why not have fun and build a hatchery in his base







I do agree though, cheese is pretty much all in and if it fails, it's hard to recover, but, depending on your opponent, it's doable(recovering I mean). I've never tried 6 pool, although, I'm interested in trying it once to see how well it works, but, I just can't get myself to do it, feels too risky









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Zealot rushes again zerg are pretty lame, especially after nerf, and proxy against zerg is a bad idea in general. Cannoning an expansion and blocking the bottom of the ramp with pylons is pretty good though and not an all in.

2 gate can be pretty powerful and it helps if you get a pylon up in the natural(this is the same as first exp spot, right?)? This will delay the exp and means that they'll have to get roaches to take down the zealots without major casualties, so, if you get stalkers and transition into a 4 gate, it could be GG. I had an opponent do something similar, attacked with 5 zealots right as my exp was about to finish and I cancelled it(big mistake), then I was boxed in while he massed zealot+stalkers+immortals. I should've went mass mutas or just mass zlings to take down his zealots early on and quickly saturate to get my eco on track


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
2 gate can be pretty powerful and it helps if you get a pylon up in the natural(this is the same as first exp spot, right?)? This will delay the exp and means that they'll have to get roaches to take down the zealots without major casualties, so, if you get stalkers and transition into a 4 gate, it could be GG. I had an opponent do something similar, attacked with 5 zealots right as my exp was about to finish and I cancelled it(big mistake), then I was boxed in while he massed zealot+stalkers+immortals. I should've went mass mutas or just mass zlings to take down his zealots early on and quickly saturate to get my eco on track









With fast roaches being so popular in ZvP at the moment it can be an instant loss for a protoss. I'm not saying it's not viable, just much more risky than it used to be. Early forge is a safe bet in most circumstances. And on some maps, if the zerg fast expands and scouts well enough to deny any cannons at his natural, you can expand straight after forge as well and stay on even foot.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
With fast roaches being so popular in ZvP at the moment it can be an instant loss for a protoss. I'm not saying it's not viable, just much more risky than it used to be. Early forge is a safe bet in most circumstances. And on some maps, if the zerg fast expands and scouts well enough to deny any cannons at his natural, you can expand straight after forge as well and stay on even foot.

I've never tried 3RR, 5RR or 7RR, I usually just open up with an exp, pool and then build structures and units from there as I see fit. I think against most zerg, you can expand early since I haven't seen many that are agressive, personally, against T or P, I just scout and wait for the first attack then I might my move, so, expanding early can be safe provided you put up a bunker or two with some marines/maraduers or as protoss, you have sentries ready to split up any incoming forces incase your zerg opponent decides to attack when he sees the opportunity







I think staying even on bases with zerg is *one* of the only ways to beat a good zerg opponent, other than outmicroing them in a battle


----------



## DoomDash

I'm up!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm up!

lol, it's only 2:15pm, well actually 3:15 at my end







Jk of course


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Don't we all. I almost won very small money in our tourney.. but almost doesn't cut it







.

How much did you win?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
How much did you win?

$0. Re-read that.


----------



## ThumperSD

Oh almost lulz... almost doesnt count









There needs to be more sponsored amateur tourneys


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Oh almost lulz... almost doesnt count









There needs to be more sponsored amateur tourneys

Once I get a job I'm probably going to drive to a MLG to play.


----------



## ThumperSD

I guess the only way to win some real money is to be able to travel.

There were some people who participated in MLG who werent very good at all. I remember some random protoss player who did not start researching warp gates until around 8 minutes. Id imagine 50% of the players there are fairly beatable.


----------



## yks

what. the. heck. blizz =[

3 wins in a row @ 30 points each and I did not get credited on the ladder nor my match history.


----------



## thiru

Just wait.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Once I get a job I'm probably going to drive to a MLG to play.


Well, we'll be rooting for you









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just wait.


Good advice. I played a 2vs2 game once that I lost and it didn't show up in my match history as well as indicating that I left the game, but, the next day or it might've been a couple of hours later, the points were deducted


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


With fast roaches being so popular in ZvP at the moment it can be an instant loss for a protoss. I'm not saying it's not viable, just much more risky than it used to be. Early forge is a safe bet in most circumstances. And on some maps, if the zerg fast expands and scouts well enough to deny any cannons at his natural, you can expand straight after forge as well and stay on even foot.


Immortals are the most underused P unit in early-game ZvP. Two immortals will shred any number of roaches. Just don't let zerglings get on them. A few zealots and cannons can protect the immortals from lings. I love fast roach aggression and it puzzles me that more people don't try to get immortals out faster. They spend all their gas on stalkers instead, which is a big mistake IMO. Stalkers just don't get the job done against a determined roach assault.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Immortals are the most underused P unit in early-game ZvP. Two immortals will shred any number of roaches. Just don't let zerglings get on them. A few zealots and cannons can protect the immortals from lings. I love fast roach aggression and it puzzles me that more people don't try to get immortals out faster. They spend all their gas on stalkers instead, which is a big mistake IMO. Stalkers just don't get the job done against a determined roach assault.

Agreed, immortals are amazing against roaches, 3 shotting them and I think they attack at almost the same rate, but, the key is to make sure you have enough and not to go overboard.

While we are on the subject, I'm noticing that lately most of my games are against T, I haven't had a P in ages and rarely Z, just T. Rather odd and even when I played 4 games as random, first was T and the other three were Z, not a single P either, kinda odd :/


----------



## thiru

Immortals shoot as fast as stalkers do, which is kinda faster than roaches.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Immortals shoot as fast as stalkers do, which is kinda faster than roaches.


hmm, interesting. I did want to mention that the cella website you gave is pretty interesting. Just watched a game on scrap station, him against a terran, he might've had the superior forces and had 3 bases, one being a gold, but, the terran's push with marines+medivacs+tanks+thors was too much for his slings+blings+roaches+mutas build. What I found odd was some of his strategies like he opened up the rocks between them and went to the main where the seige tanks with a couple of marauders took down most of his roaches, had he went for the undefended exp, he would've caused some serious damage. He also didn't upgrade roach speed from what I can make out of the video, would've helped a lot, finally, the big attack that the T won would've been in his favour had he decided to hold off and wait until the terran moved from the choke that he was holding, but, other than that, it was an interesting battle


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Immortals are the most underused P unit in early-game ZvP. Two immortals will shred any number of roaches. Just don't let zerglings get on them. A few zealots and cannons can protect the immortals from lings. I love fast roach aggression and it puzzles me that more people don't try to get immortals out faster. They spend all their gas on stalkers instead, which is a big mistake IMO. Stalkers just don't get the job done against a determined roach assault.


The reason theyre not made a lot is if you make immortals v zerg and he goes spire, YOU LOST THE ****ING GAME.


----------



## BigFan

For those interested in the videos I was talking about, it's the Fri Nov 5 2010 07:48:47 AM one. His second match was probably more interesting, great micro with the roaches, moving them back so that the marines focused on other ones. I lol'd when he said "insane micro, boxer style"







Suffice to say, he took that game rather quickly









Edit: Forgot link: http://www.livestream.com/cellawerra...edium=ui-thumb


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


The reason theyre not made a lot is if you make immortals v zerg and he goes spire, YOU LOST THE ****ING GAME.


He doesnt even need a spire. Lings own immortals. But you'll probably have zealots in your mix any way.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


For those interested in the videos I was talking about, it's the Fri Nov 5 2010 07:48:47 AM one. His second match was probably more interesting, great micro with the roaches, moving them back so that the marines focused on other ones. I lol'd when he said "insane micro, boxer style"







Suffice to say, he took that game rather quickly









Edit: Forgot link: http://www.livestream.com/cellawerra...edium=ui-thumb










Yeah! You're starting to watch Cella~!!! +rep

Remember his KR account is his serious account. Earlier this week he started leveling up a EU account, it was freaking hilarious watching him do placement matches and just doing the silliest things, it was almost as funny TLO's placement games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Yeah! You're starting to watch Cella~!!! +rep

Remember his KR account is his serious account. Earlier this week he started leveling up a EU account, it was freaking hilarious watching him do placement matches and just doing the silliest things, it was almost as funny TLO's placement games.










Thanks for the rep of course








I think this was his KR account since everything was in KR, but, it could just be some language setting. Are those placement matches on this website, because, I would love to see those







BTW, if any of you guys are interested, I think it says that he does 1 on 1 for 20 or 25 an hour, although, personally, I like learning by myself


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, we'll be rooting for you










Thanks. I can guarantee I will go to one, I love traveling for tournaments. I just hope I can get into both SCII and Tekken. I don't expect to do well but if I could win one or two that would be sweet... or lose to an elite player







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thanks. I can guarantee I will go to one, I love traveling for tournaments. I just hope I can get into both SCII and Tekken. I don't expect to do well but if I could win one or two that would be sweet... or lose to an elite player







.


I love travelling as well, but, doubt I would travel to the US for MLG. As for GSL, if I ever decide to visit that country, I'll probably try and make sure its during the GSL, so, that I try to qualify for the fun of it(maybe I'll actually qualify







) and if I don't, at least I get to watch the matches







BTW, just keep practicing, there is no reason you should lose early in the MLG at all since you are constantly practicing and playing games. On the other hand, if you were to lose early in the GSL, no one can blame you







Those guys are really hardcore and have their strategies figured before even entering the game. Watching Cella's game, I can see him clicking all over the map, although at the start, he was pretty much just spamming to reach higher APM







I did find it interesting that he made some rather obvious mistakes, but, what do I know, I'm only silver


----------



## DoomDash

Where in Canada do you live? Would be a pretty short trip to Washington state depending on your location. I'd love to visit washington as I hear its amazing. I don't live all that far from Canada.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Where in Canada do you live? Would be a pretty short trip to Washington state depending on your location. I'd love to visit washington as I hear its amazing. I don't live all that far from Canada.


Actually, I live rather close(Eastern Ontario), so, it would be something like 8 hr drive to New York. I live pretty close to where Nevaziah is


----------



## thiru

Wait what's in Washington?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Wait what's in Washington?


lol, not sure, but, wasn't the first MLG in Washington or am I getting my places mixed up?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, not sure, but, wasn't the first MLG in Washington or am I getting my places mixed up?










DC, not state.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Wait what's in Washington?


I mean in general I'd like to go to that area. I hear good things.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Actually, I live rather close(Eastern Ontario), so, it would be something like 8 hr drive to New York. I live pretty close to where Nevaziah is










If you took they ferry from MI to Milwaukee you'd cut off a lot of driving to my city. My gf used work on it, 40 mph, 2:30 min to get across lake Michigan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


DC, not state.

I mean in general I'd like to go to that area. I hear good things.


Ah, I see


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you took they ferry from MI to Milwaukee you'd cut off a lot of driving to my city. My gf used work on it, 40 mph, 2:30 min to get across lake Michigan.


Interesting


----------



## DoomDash

Someone make a steam group for SCII. I've never done it, and I'm sure it's easy... but I'm lazy.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Someone make a steam group for SCII. I've never done it, and I'm sure it's easy... but I'm lazy.


Here you go...

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OCN_SC2


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks + Rep.

Now, Z players... I found this to be awesome. Read, watch replay. 
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/inde...=19332.new#new


----------



## DoomDash

Turbo do you own an RX7? All my friends have FC's practically. I'm a MK3 Supra kinda guy though.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Turbo do you own an RX7? All my friends have FC's practically. I'm a MK3 Supra kinda guy though.


Is that what you used to have in your avatar? I used to own one, MK3 3.0i Turbo, but had to get rid of it :/ Awesome car though.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Turbo do you own an RX7? All my friends have FC's practically. I'm a MK3 Supra kinda guy though.


Yeah I have a FB and a FD. I know a few people with MK3 Supra's and one guy with a old Celica Supra.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Yeah I have a FB and a FD. I know a few people with MK3 Supra's and one guy with a old Celica Supra.


Cool.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Is that what you used to have in your avatar? I used to own one, MK3 3.0i Turbo, but had to get rid of it :/ Awesome car though.


Yes, and if you click my profile. Yeah I have had 8 if you include parts cars. I still have my first one ( first car too ), but I sold my last running one a few months back. That's so cool you had one though.. pretty rare in your Country. Plus weren't you ever wondering why my Steam/AIM is "SupraDoom" ?


----------



## BigFan

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *DoomDash*   Now, Z players... I found this to be awesome. Read, watch replay. 
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/inde...=19332.new#new  
Thanks for uploading this. Sorry, I wasn't able to respond much, since, I was just 2 gated from what I could tell. I laid down the spawning pool as my usual build and it was still finishing just as a zealot walks into my base. I surround with drones and then withdraw once he starts attacking them, make zlings from my 2 hatcheries and then the rest was micro and getting a surround on the next couple of zealots. Interesting game since I haven't played against P as Z in a long time and at one point, I was up against what seemed like infinite stalkers. He even ended up making a carrier, but, my mutas were too much for it








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...g-jungle-basin

I haven't watched the replay in that thread, but, it sounds interesting. I can see why it'll work though. Someone in that thread linked to this video which is very interesting to watch as he talks about tips, etc....:
  
 You Tube  



 








@ last trick









Edit: After a horrible loss as a T against a P, even though he was just building zealots, I have decided to stick with Z indefinitely







As for the car thing above, what is a supra exactly? Too lazy to research and have to get to bed


----------



## poroboszcz

It was actually the first car I owned as well, lol. I got it as a gift for a favor, but it was in pretty bad condition. At some point I realized it just costs too much to maintain, especially when you add insurance and petrol.

I don't see many of them on the street, but they are quite easy to get if you want one and pretty cheap too.

Edit: I think colossus is terrible in PvZ in general. Most zergs will get the spire at some point even if they're not going to use it straight away and if they only see colossus they'll get 10 corruptors out of nowhere in a matter of seconds. HT's are much more reliable imo + they're good against both mutas and ground units.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
It was actually the first car I owned as well, lol. I got it as a gift for a favor, but it was in pretty bad condition. At some point I realized it just costs too much to maintain, especially when you add insurance and petrol.

I don't see many of them on the street, but they are quite easy to get if you want one and pretty cheap too.

Edit: I think colossus is terrible in PvZ in general. Most zergs will get the spire at some point even if they're not going to use it straight away and if they only see colossus they'll get 10 corruptors out of nowhere in a matter of seconds. HT's are much more reliable imo + they're good against both mutas and ground units.

Colossus works as a form of economic terrorism. The spire and the zerg air units are expensive. I'm a zerg and I've had games where I blew a lot of resources to counter the threat of colossus and then my opponent just stopped making them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Colossus works as a form of economic terrorism. The spire and the zerg air units are expensive. I'm a zerg and I've had games where I blew a lot of resources to counter the threat of colossus and then my opponent just stopped making them.

Which is why you should try and keep track of how many colossi they are making? Either way, mutas are great against most units in large numbers and you can get BLs from corruptors if you tech to hive->greater spire


----------



## EmMure

eg's incontrol is gonna be playing in gsl


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
They're going to need a bigger booth.


----------



## DoomDash

He is huge ( muscle ). I wish him luck.


----------



## turbocharged

Man over the past two days it seems like my luck has been coming to an end. I'm now rank 17 bronze and winning 50% of my even matches. Problem is every loss is a TvT it seems. I keep beating Zerg and Protoss.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey bigfan, thanks for posting the tips and tricks video, I've actually been wondering how to to the drops while moving, that cleared it up







.

It surprising some of the things I find myself still learning. I've probably played 75-100 games as zerg and I'm in the gold league yet, I only realised the other day that once you have a Lair you can research the lair upgrades (overlord speed, burrow, overlord sacks etc...) at any hatchery and it doesnt have to be at the Lair. Needless to say, my face was red







lol.

Would any zerg players be able to reccomend a good timing attack btw? Im not sure if anyone watched my replay, but I basically macro up, while defending any pushes of the opponents that I scout then at around the 20 in game minute mark I just "1a" the back of his base. As my macro has been better than his for most of the game I can be pretty confident and there isn't much need for fancy micro.

I was thinking something along the lines of 4 or 5 roaches about the 6 min mark, once I have my natural up and a some drones mining at it? This is an idea, I would need to experment with it to see if its any way feasable.

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## poroboszcz

I've done 13 gateways build in 2v2 and won lol!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
He is huge ( muscle ). I wish him luck.

ah I see, makes sense









Quote:


Originally Posted by *turbocharged* 
Man over the past two days it seems like my luck has been coming to an end. I'm now rank 17 bronze and winning 50% of my even matches. Problem is every loss is a TvT it seems. I keep beating Zerg and Protoss.

hmm, might I suggest MMT? I'm sure you already knew that, but, a couple of tanks with a small MM force will rip through a much larger force due to clustering of MM+ tank's armored damage of 50









Quote:


Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox* 
Hey bigfan, thanks for posting the tips and tricks video, I've actually been wondering how to to the drops while moving, that cleared it up







.

It surprising some of the things I find myself still learning. I've probably played 75-100 games as zerg and I'm in the gold league yet, I only realised the other day that once you have a Lair you can research the lair upgrades (overlord speed, burrow, overlord sacks etc...) at any hatchery and it doesnt have to be at the Lair. Needless to say, my face was red







lol.

np, I was hoping that it'll be as simple as moving the overloads then clicking d to unload all since you have them selected but it seems you need to spam d and click on each one which can get annoying if you have a lot of them, but, it's worth it!







As for the hatchery one, well, no need to be red, there are some things that I've only just recently realized as well









Quote:


Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox* 
Would any zerg players be able to reccomend a good timing attack btw? Im not sure if anyone watched my replay, but I basically macro up, while defending any pushes of the opponents that I scout then at around the 20 in game minute mark I just "1a" the back of his base. As my macro has been better than his for most of the game I can be pretty confident and there isn't much need for fancy micro.

I was thinking something along the lines of 4 or 5 roaches about the 6 min mark, once I have my natural up and a some drones mining at it? This is an idea, I would need to experment with it to see if its any way feasable.

Cheers,
Matt

Well, there is the 3RR, 5RR and 7RR. They are really strong roach pushes especially if your opponent doesn't notice the roach warren or a better term, is not ready for it. Personally, never tried them, since, they seemed like cheese, although, it's the same as 2 gate or 2 rax(correct?). Personally, I just macro up but build some defense as I macro. I would try to spice up your strategy a bit, I mean I can only assume you mean use the nydus worm but I would look into muta harass, work on getting t3 units, etc.... if you don't already, otherwise, those 3 RRs are the only roaches moves I can think of.
One thing to mention that I'm working on, is being aggressive. Due to Zerg being a macro race, it means we can replenish our units much quicker so by being aggressive, you keep your opponent boxed and don't have to wait for their first attack before you counter









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I've done 13 gateways build in 2v2 and won lol!

Not a bad strat, problem is getting all those 13 gates up before making some defense. Cella got lucky in that game he played since his opponent went didn't target the pylons+probes


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Cool man, i'l have a look into those RR strats. Yeah I would always try some muta harrass while im continuing to macro up although if im against another zerg who went mutas I would probably go hydra.

Basically I'd been following day9's advice of just focusing on macro and then because you have much more units you can just walk through his base. Now that I'm sort of getting the hang of that I was thinking of some nice times to do small pushes as i feel im not being aggressive enough through out most of the game as im just macroing.

I would also get some Ultras and broodlords if the game goes on that long









Cheers for the advice









Matt


----------



## EmMure

what is with the lag today jesus


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Cool man, i'l have a look into those RR strats. Yeah I would always try some muta harrass while im continuing to macro up although if im against another zerg who went mutas I would probably go hydra.

Basically I'd been following day9's advice of just focusing on macro and then because you have much more units you can just walk through his base. Now that I'm sort of getting the hang of that I was thinking of some nice times to do small pushes as i feel im not being aggressive enough through out most of the game as im just macroing.

I would also get some Ultras and broodlords if the game goes on that long









Cheers for the advice









Matt


np, anytime. I'm not agressive either other than the muta harass, but, I think its a good idea to be agressive, since, we can just rebuild our army rather fast







I've only ever used ultras and BLs once or twice in about 100 games of playing as zerg, so, I see your point. Good luck


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Basically I'd been following day9's advice of just focusing on macro and then because you have much more units you can just walk through his base. Now that I'm sort of getting the hang of that I was thinking of some nice times to do small pushes as i feel im not being aggressive enough through out most of the game as im just macroing.

I would also get some Ultras and broodlords if the game goes on that long









Cheers for the advice









Matt


yay for following day9, he's really helpful for people starting out. *BUT*, if you follow day9 even more, you would learn that there is no magical time-stamp for a timing attack. So you can't just pick any ol' minute-mark and attack.

The term "timing attack" comes from a need to shorten "good time to attack," so when is a good time to attack? Right when you finish upgrades or abilities. That would be a good time to attack; therefore, it is a timing attack.

Another good time to attack? When you see that he is researching something that is not yet complete. You see his Robotics Bay researching something? It's probably Colossi Range, so attack before it's done; ie. Timing Attack.

The key though with all "timing attacks" is to know when to back off. Never go into a fight expecting to win with 1 blow. Continuing to get small advantages *throughout* the game is better than doing 1 big-giant attack and hoping for the better.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I've done 13 gateways build in 2v2 and won lol!


I think I've done 17 warpgates in a FFA xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


yay for following day9, he's really helpful for people starting out. *BUT*, if you follow day9 even more, you would learn that there is no magical time-stamp for a timing attack. So you can't just pick any ol' minute-mark and attack.

The term "timing attack" comes from a need to shorten "good time to attack," so when is a good time to attack? Right when you finish upgrades or abilities. That would be a good time to attack; therefore, it is a timing attack.

Another good time to attack? When you see that he is researching something that is not yet complete. You see his Robotics Bay researching something? It's probably Colossi Range, so attack before it's done; ie. Timing Attack.

The key though with all "timing attacks" is to know when to back off. Never go into a fight expecting to win with 1 blow. Continuing to get small advantages *throughout* the game is better than doing 1 big-giant attack and hoping for the better.


Agreed, although, if you are able to take out your opponent with whatever army you have, I think you should go for it. I can't count how many games I've give my opponent a chance as in take down their first force and for decide to macro more, etc.... and next thing I know I'm struggling to survive the next attack. Of course, it's usually my fault for not pressuring him, but, when you play zerg, you find yourself more on the defensive at the start of the game compared to T and P, so, it becomes harder to break out of the habit and launch the first attack, although, I'm working to rectify that









I did want to mention that in pro games, they talk about extending your lead, so, if you win a battle, don't finish your opponent off, macro more, exp more, make more units, upgrade, etc.... and while I agree with that, considering that most of the opponents we'll face in the league aren't pros, it means that attacking right after a battle could be a GG in most cases and of course, keep building units incase you lose your army









I do want to mention this though: In one game against a T a long time back on Metalopolis, I beat his first attack composed of MMM+2 thors+5SCV repair and I decided to counterattack with 20+ roaches. I took out his exp and went for his other one, only to have 5 marauders or so with a couple of marines+1-2 medivacs take out my whole force. When you have superior numbers, at least 2:1 if not 3:1 and your forces force a concave, you'd think you'll win such a small battle. After losing that, I wasn't able to recover well and his next wave of pretty much the same units+2-3 vikings was too much to handle and I lost









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think I've done 17 warpgates in a FFA xD


lol, that's not a bad idea actually considering how many opponent you are facing especially if you get attacked by 2 or 3 at once. I think the important thing is to make sure that you build them as you make units to defend. Building them like cella did from the start without building any units to defend almost cost him the game if it wasn't for the fact that he actually had enough money to make 10+ zealots right after they attacked, since, his opponents base was being torn up







It was still funny to see though


----------



## poroboszcz

13 warpgate build doesn't include any units before your gates are finished









Regarding what you said earlier, I think that you just need to learn to benefit from won battles. If you won a battle in the center of the map it is generally better to back off and capitalize on the fact that your opponent won't have any units to attack your for a while. You can use this time to tech or expand to gain further advantage. At the same time he wont be able to do the same because he'll have to spend all his money on recreating his army in anticipation of your attack.

Trying to finish the game here and now is a very common mistake for lower level players and just getting over this habit can greatly improve your play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


13 warpgate build doesn't include any units before your gates are finished









Regarding what you said earlier, I think that you just need to learn to benefit from won battles. If you won a battle in the center of the map it is generally better to back off and capitalize on the fact that your opponent won't have any units to attack your for a while. You can use this time to tech or expand to gain further advantage. At the same time he wont be able to do the same because he'll have to spend all his money on recreating his army in anticipation of your attack.

Trying to finish the game here and now is a very common mistake for lower level players and just getting over this habit can greatly improve your play.


lol, I see and here I thought that Cella didn't know what he was doing







I do see your point about the won battle. In my case, I almost always wait for the opponent to attack, destroy his force and then rebuild and retailate *depending* on what units he has and if I'm positive that I can win, otherwise, I'll just make more units, macro, do some harassing, etc....









I've had games, like a recent one where my T opponent attacked with marines+thor, lost, massed thors and attacked. I spot him massing rather late and start massing roaches along with slings. I was able to take down all 7-8 of his thors while losing a lot of my own forces which was understandable. He gg'd right after and left









Recently, I've been working on expanding to a third base, since, ATM, usually going two is plenty for most games as well as trying to be more aggressive and fixing my macro


----------



## DoomDash

I'm pretty tired, should I ladder?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm pretty tired, should I ladder?


lol, that's really odd to hear coming from you, since, you've been laddering a lot lately, but, TBH, if you feel tired, I wouldn't ladder. I would just play some practice/team games or so, so, that even if you lose, no harm done


----------



## DoomDash

I just feel the need / addiction to get to 2000 so bad that even when I'm super tired it's hard to say no







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just feel the need / addiction to get to 2000 so bad that even when I'm super tired it's hard to say no







.


lol, well, not sure you'll like this, but, did you hear that the new high is considered 3000-4000?







JK of course, but, someone was talking about how the ceiling which is considered about 2000 is going to increase soon enough









I also feel the addiction to move up in league, but, life comes first for me








Well, think of it this way, if you play and just lose most of your games due to being tired, it's gonna take more games to reach 2000


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, well, not sure you'll like this, but, did you hear that the new high is considered 3000-4000?







JK of course, but, someone was talking about how the ceiling which is considered about 2000 is going to increase soon enough









I also feel the addiction to move up in league, but, life comes first for me








Well, think of it this way, if you play and just lose most of your games due to being tired, it's gonna take more games to reach 2000










Yeah I think I'm going to nap.

Yeah the scores keep getting higher... I don't really think 2000 is even that impressive anymore ( just a nice goal to set ). Pro's are all around 2400+ these days, and rising. I was trying to stay within 1000 points of the #1 person on sc2ranks.com, but I don't think that will happen this season. Next season I'm going to forget about bonus pool and just play and see what happens.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I think I'm going to nap.

Yeah the scores keep getting higher... I don't really think 2000 is even that impressive anymore ( just a nice goal to set ). Pro's are all around 2400+ these days, and rising. I was trying to stay within 1000 points of the #1 person on sc2ranks.com, but I don't think that will happen this season. Next season I'm going to forget about bonus pool and just play and see what happens.


Do whatever you need to do to feel well, usually napping like you mentioned helps a lot, know from experience









Well, personally I think 2000 is great especially if the pros are only 400 or so points away. Just play, enjoy the game and try your best. Recently, I began discovering that I'm enjoying my games probably due to only playing a couple a day if I have the time. Don't game for points(who doesn't?







), game to enjoy and points will come kinda like is mentioned in the Field of Dreams movie.
"Build it and they will come!" -> "Enjoy it and you will rise!"


----------



## DoomDash

Well I enjoy crushing people and taking their points and putting them onto mine. This also makes me miss when you could just challenge people to ladder matches in BW.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well I enjoy crushing people and taking their points and putting them onto mine. This also makes me miss when you could just challenge people to ladder matches in BW.


Do you mean you could just click the name and click challenge from some menu in Battle.net? Interesting, had no clue that could be done


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Do you mean you could just click the name and click challenge from some menu in Battle.net? Interesting, had no clue that could be done










We could be hanging out in these things called "Chat Channels", talking ****. You could then challenge the person you are talking smack to, to a ladder match. Points were also visible, so ideally you'd be challenging some guy way higher than you.


----------



## lazi punk

just out of curiosity, when is next season? is this like d2 where all of our points in our rank going to disappear?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lazi punk*


just out of curiosity, when is next season? is this like d2 where all of our points in our rank going to disappear?


Well they haven't said a for sure date, but I think most people are guessing at the end of the year. Your score will disappear, but your last seasons stats will apparently save some where.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We could be hanging out in these things called "Chat Channels", talking ****. You could then challenge the person you are talking smack to, to a ladder match. Points were also visible, so ideally you'd be challenging some guy way higher than you.


oh interesting, yes, I do remember chat channels. I think they are going to be putting chat channels back, so, who knows, that might come back too, although, I doubt many of the pros or even high point ranked people will be just sitting around in chat channels









Quote:



Originally Posted by *lazi punk*


just out of curiosity, when is next season? is this like d2 where all of our points in our rank going to disappear?


I think sometime in Dec or Jan, not fully sure though.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lazi punk*


just out of curiosity, when is next season? is this like d2 where all of our points in our rank going to disappear?


according to the devs, the plan is to wipe everything but keep everyone's MMR and placement matches will take 1 game. So you get placed back in your league.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oh interesting, yes, I do remember chat channels. I think they are going to be putting chat channels back, so, who knows, that might come back too, although, I doubt many of the pros or even high point ranked people will be just sitting around in chat channels










They will, I can almost guarantee it... but it may be an exclusive or private channel.

Chat channels are more amazing then most people who didn't have BW realize. I will be hanging out in the best channel I can challenging people.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


according to the devs, the plan is to wipe everything but keep everyone's MMR and placement matches will take 1 game. So you get placed back in your league.


My main question is what is 1 placement game going to do? If I get matched against a diamond and win, do I get placed in diamond from my previous silver? My guess is that due to MMR, it'll be someone of a similar level as seen in the current games you play so that if you win, you'll likely end up in the same level, but, who knows.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


My main question is what is 1 placement game going to do? If I get matched against a diamond and win, do I get placed in diamond from my previous silver? My guess is that due to MMR, it'll be someone of a similar level as seen in the current games you play so that if you win, you'll likely end up in the same level, but, who knows.


I don't really understand the point to the 1 placement match TBH. Why can't we just start where we left off?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


They will, I can almost guarantee it... but it may be an exclusive or private channel.

Chat channels are more amazing then most people who didn't have BW realize. I will be hanging out in the *best channel I can challenging people*.


Excellent, means I get a chance to challenge you and anyone else I want, lol









^^ I'm not sure of the 1 placement match either TBH, why not just drop us back in the same league after wiping out all the points?


----------



## DoomDash

You can already challenge me... or can you?







.

I'm going to bed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You can already challenge me... or can you?







.

I'm going to bed.


lol, you're never online for a challenge and last time we had a game was over a month ago







Whenever I log in, most are offline or playing a team game, thus, I have to crush other silver players for my enjoyment


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't really understand the point to the 1 placement match TBH. Why can't we just start where we left off?


It's for people who are on the fence between leagues or shouldn't currently be there.

For Example:

A person who got the game on release, got diamond on the very first day. But has not played a single 1v1 ladder game since.

When the game first came out the threshold for diamond promotion was pretty low compared to now. So even though he is in Diamond, his ELO rating may be that of a Gold/Plat players of current times.

Should he be placed in Diamond even though he hasn't played 1v1 since release? Blizzard says NO! Because as the game evolves, people who got diamond early on, but hasn't played since, might currently only be Gold/Plat or lower level.

Remember when JangMinChul was the first person to break 2k rating? That was a pretty big race. Now 2k is nothing to the pros. As the game evolves the threshold will climb.

So people who havent kept up with the threshold should be placed in the appropriate area.


----------



## poroboszcz

A lot of people are not in the league they should be, because ladder system doesn't respond immediately to changes in your MMR. Most of my opponents are currently in 1000-1500 diamond range and every time it says even match. Last time I've seen opponent favored was against 2100 zerg who 6pool'd me lol.

Also some high platinum players I play are definitely MUCH better then most 1000- diamond players. So I guess a ladder reset would fix this. I believe that the one placement match would just help to reallocate people to appropriate leagues based on their MMR rather then ladder rank and points.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


A lot of people are not in the league they should be, because ladder system doesn't respond immediately to changes in your MMR. Most of my opponents are currently in 1000-1500 diamond range and every time it says even match. Last time I've seen opponent favored was against 2100 zerg who 6pool'd me lol.

Also some high platinum players I play are definitely MUCH better then most 1000- diamond players. So I guess a ladder reset would fix this. I believe that the one placement match would just help to reallocate people to appropriate leagues based on their MMR rather then ladder rank and points.


I think I beat your response by a minute ;] jk jk


----------



## BigFan

^^While I see your points, only one match? Why not 5 instead? It'll give a much better idea since you can lose that one match, but, at least with 5, there are more points


----------



## yks

The 1 match is because the pros.

Remember, placement games don't give you points; why should a Pro have to play 5 games, win or lose and have 0 points?

Pros play each other super intensely for 5 games just for 0 points?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The 1 match is because the pros.

Remember, placement games don't give you points; why should a Pro have to play 5 games, win or lose and have 0 points?

Pros play each other super intensely for 5 games just for 0 points?


ah I see your point


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I just noticed I have the same Bose headphones as Day9 uses in his dailies. I guess that makes me cool.


----------



## burwij

The one placement game doesn't really have anything to do with your specific league placement - it's simply an activity check. I highly doubt you'll see a change in your league unless you were due for a promotion anyway. Requiring 5 placement games each season would only give people the opportunity to smurf it up in the Bronze league every 3-4 months.

Looking at the region stats section of sc2ranks, there are about 600,000 accounts placed into 1v1 leagues in NA. Of those 600,000, about 160,000 played a game within the last 7 days; 290,000 played a game within the last month. Making everyone play 1 placement game at the start of S2 ensures that you're placed into a division full of active participants; at the same time, someone who decides to start playing 1-2 months into the season won't be stuck in some 2000+ point division with 1200 bonus pool.

I'd imagine there are a lot of divisions in the Bronze league that only have 10-15 people actively playing games - this provides them an easy way to cut some dead weight at the start of every season.


----------



## poroboszcz

That's a good point actually. Also pros don't really play for points. They play for money.

I spy on some pros accounts for build orders







and in their match history you can see they mostly play custom games against each other. They probably treat ladder in the same way we treat team and custom games, just for practice, while what really matters are tournaments.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


That's a good point actually. Also pros don't really play for points. They play for money.

I spy on some pros accounts for build orders







and in their match history you can see they mostly play custom games against each other. They probably treat ladder in the same way we treat team and custom games, just for practice, while what really matters are tournaments.


While I agree that pros are playing for money, I'm pretty confident that they want to move up and would rather be in the top 10 then much lower. Example of this is Cella who kept checking his ranking and opponent's ranking after winning or losing a game








You spy on their history?







I for one I'm not shocked, since, I do a similar act if I see a pro account







, kinda curious how many games they play per day and you are correct, they mostly play custom games, likely to practice. Agreed with everything else


----------



## thiru

Well guess who's the new OP of this thread









If any of you have links or stuff to put on the OP, just tell me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well guess who's the new OP of this thread









If any of you have links or stuff to put on the OP, just tell me.


Me? Thanks for the nice surprise








lol, congrats on taking the OP, although, had you waited I bit more, I would've asked for it, since, the OP was active, just not in this thread


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If any of you have links or stuff to put on the OP, just tell me.


The only thing I can think to add is a link to the SC2ranks division with a short blurb telling people how they can add themselves. Thanks for taking over.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yea, the funny thing is I can rarely copy their BOs. For example I see a build order which gets colossus at 7:06. I do exactly the same at get it at 7:20+ at best.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yea, the funny thing is I can rarely copy their BOs. For example I see a build order which gets colossus at 7:06. I do exactly the same at get it at 7:20+ at best.


Well, its just the timing. I mean making that probe just a second late can make an impact on your minerals or gas, likewise so does placing structures, etc.... Either way, the BOs which I'm presuming you mean the order log goes up to 7 or so minutes, so, after that, we have no clue what happens :/


----------



## ThumperSD

I played on ladder 1v1s earlier today tipsy and lost 3 games in a row. Im so sloppy when I play under the influence. Won my 4th game and got promoted to platinum. A bit surprised it wasnt diamond but about 5 wins later, I finally got promoted to diamond. With that said, I dont see much of a skill gap at all between a high level plat and an average diamond.

Bronze was fun while it lasted =D


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I played on ladder 1v1s earlier today tipsy and lost 3 games in a row. Im so sloppy when I play under the influence. Won my 4th game and got promoted to platinum. A bit surprised it wasnt diamond but about 5 wins later, I finally got promoted to diamond. With that said, I dont see much of a skill gap at all between a high level plat and an average diamond.

Bronze was fun while it lasted =D


lol, congrats on the promotion


----------



## ThumperSD

Thanks =D


----------



## poroboszcz

Can I ask how many points did you have in platinum and how many did you get in diamond after promotion?

Also you won't notice the difference after promotion, because of your MMR you're essentially playing the same people.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Thanks =D


We should get a game going, even if it was on your old account. Curious to see how well you play









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Can I ask how many points did you have in platinum and how many did you get in diamond after promotion?

Also you won't notice the difference after promotion, because of your MMR you're essentially playing the same people.


True about the MMR thing. I'm also curious about the point difference


----------



## DoomDash

Nice nap. Nice posts since then.

Also nice Thiro. Maybe add the OCN Steam group turbocharge made yesterday.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OCN_SC2


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Can I ask how many points did you have in platinum and how many did you get in diamond after promotion?

Also you won't notice the difference after promotion, because of your MMR you're essentially playing the same people.


I had nearly 2100 points when I was in bronze. When I got to platinum, I was at around 1200. Did not notice if I lost any points after I got promoted to diamond however.

The #1 guy in my division barely has over 1600 points so im looking to take that spot hopefully in a month or so if I keep playing consistently. Problem is I wont have lot of free time to play until my month long Winter break. Pretty weak division if you ask me.

And yea, MMR > rank


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


We should get a game going, even if it was on your old account. Curious to see how well you play










Yea definitely. Im still fairly new to 1v1 tbh. Havent started taking it seriously until 2 weeks ago. Im not great but pretty decent.

I will be using my old account for everything else.


----------



## yks

I love spectating games, so yeeeeeee you should let me watch =]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Yea definitely. Im still fairly new to 1v1 tbh. Havent started taking it seriously until 2 weeks ago. Im not great but pretty decent.

I will be using my old account for everything else.


It's np, I was pretty late to the scene as well, so, we're in the same boat







My problem seems to be some macro as well as the fact that I rarely use hotkeys(use mostly to make units) and I haven't been playing many games lately, so, I'm a little rusty, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I love spectating games, so yeeeeeee you should let me watch =]


Sure you can watch assuming you are talking about when I play Thumper, although, it's going to have to be tommorrow, since, it's pretty late and I should get to bed. I'll add you when I play some SC2 then we can probably all decide on sometime and you can spectate if he doesn't mind







I also like spectating


----------



## ThumperSD

Im not late to the scene, just late to the 1v1 scene if that's what you're talking about. I still enjoy 2v2 more but I think I have the potential to be better at 1v1.

I need practice vs zerg anyways. Particularly late game vs zerg.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Im not late to the scene, just late to the 1v1 scene if that's what you're talking about. I still enjoy 2v2 more but I think I have the potential to be better at 1v1.

I need practice vs zerg anyways. Particularly late game vs zerg.

I was late to the scene in the sense of playing 1vs1(started end of Sept), but, I was playing the game since it came out


----------



## xHassassin

Ugh, lost twice to a protoss immortal/colossus push. My first match against a diamond player.

Is it normal for me to be at like 28 supply when the protoss is at like 33? Chrono boost should do that right?

I had a larger army than him when I pushed out 60 supply, just got stuck with mass forcefields and died. Also got a late stim which didn't kick in until after the first engagement.










Ah well, I'm not even done with my placement matches yet, so it's all good.


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
according to the devs, the plan is to wipe everything but keep everyone's MMR and placement matches will take 1 game. So you get placed back in your league.

1) whats mmr?
2) so im diamond right now, sO for placement, imma assume i will play someone who is also and i lose. Then what happens ?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lazi punk* 
1) whats mmr?

"Matchmaking Rating" - everyone has a hidden skill rating that's used to determine who your opponents are and how many points are at stake per game. Beat someone of lower skill (lower MMR) and you gain a few points; beat someone of higher skill and gain a bunch. It's completely separate from your ladder points and league.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lazi punk* 
2) so im diamond right now, sO for placement, imma assume i will play someone who is also and i lose. Then what happens ?









Like I said before, it's just an activity check. Season 2 hits, everyone's stats get wiped. You play 1 game, and win or lose, you should be back in the same league as before (albeit in a different division). It ensures a smooth transition from season to season and eliminates the grind of re-levelling a team from the ground up. Your MMR carries over from season to season, so you'll still be playing people of around the same skill level.

During the beta I remember hearing things about end-of-season tournaments and a promotion/relegation system, so there might be some shuffling at the end of the season. I haven't really heard anything since though.


----------



## DoomDash

Bad night of laddering. 3-5 ended up 4 points lower than when I started. Lots of Terrans tonight.

3 Protoss ( one of which was the same guy who beat me twice ), 1 Zerg, 4 Terrans. Almost never get that many Terrans. One match was 40 minutes and I could have sworn I was ahead early.. but I guess not. Zerg was on scrap station, which I don't mind playing, but obviously its harder.


----------



## thiru

I updated the OP with some links. If you can think of anything, including any videos for newbies tell me.

(I don't know how good that ForceSC2strategy youtube thing is, but it's got a bunch of different builds and a few basic introductions so it can't be that bad... but the guy puts me to sleep :/)


----------



## DoomDash

Too bad that DPS chart is a little dated.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Too bad that DPS chart is a little dated.

Yeah I had one that was more recent but I can't find it anymore.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I had one that was more recent but I can't find it anymore.

Make your own! Do it for the team!


----------



## EmMure

im into round 3 of the pny tourney lol


----------



## thiru

God no. I already took the thread, I'm not going to calculate a hundred DPS.

It's really too bad though, the one I used to have had loads of details compared to this one.


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
"Matchmaking Rating" - everyone has a hidden skill rating that's used to determine who your opponents are and how many points are at stake per game. Beat someone of lower skill (lower MMR) and you gain a few points; beat someone of higher skill and gain a bunch. It's completely separate from your ladder points and league.

Like I said before, it's just an activity check. Season 2 hits, everyone's stats get wiped. You play 1 game, and win or lose, you should be back in the same league as before (albeit in a different division). It ensures a smooth transition from season to season and eliminates the grind of re-levelling a team from the ground up. Your MMR carries over from season to season, so you'll still be playing people of around the same skill level.

During the beta I remember hearing things about end-of-season tournaments and a promotion/relegation system, so there might be some shuffling at the end of the season. I haven't really heard anything since though.


thanks for all the info !! so all my league points and achievement points will be wiped? =(


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
God no. I already took the thread, I'm not going to calculate a hundred DPS.

It's really too bad though, the one I used to have had loads of details compared to this one.

Find it and you will be rewarded in rep and women*. ( * No women included )


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Find it and you will be rewarded in rep and women*. ( * No women included )

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...c&hl=en#gid=27

That it?

Dug that one out of some ancient Firefox bookmarks









Edit:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lazi punk* 
thanks for all the info !! so all my league points and achievement points will be wiped? =(

You'll keep your achievement points; those will always be tied to your account. They might even carry over to the Z and P expansions based on what they're doing with WoW.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...c&hl=en#gid=27

That it?

Dug that one out of some ancient Firefox bookmarks









Edit:

You'll keep your achievement points; those will always be tied to your account. They might even carry over to the Z and P expansions based on what they're doing with WoW.

Not sure if its the same that Thiru was talking about, but it looks much better. Rep+.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...c&hl=en#gid=27

That it?

Dug that one out of some ancient Firefox bookmarks









Edit:

You'll keep your achievement points; those will always be tied to your account. They might even carry over to the Z and P expansions based on what they're doing with WoW.

Wow that one looks even better! do you know if it's updated?


----------



## DoomDash

It had the updated BC damage.


----------



## burwij

As far as I can tell it's up to date. The patch number is in the upper-left, and I think that's the current one. I made sure tank damage was 35, that's all I could remember









While we're throwing links around:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_Wiki

I don't know if I'm just blind, but I can never find unit build times on Liquidpedia. That one has everything covered.

Edit: I'm blind, just found them, lol.


----------



## EmMure

nobody cares im in round 3 of a major online tourney /cry!


----------



## DoomDash

I can:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marauder
It's just below the picture.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
nobody cares im in round 3 of a major online tourney /cry!

Aren't you in Bronze? That's pretty good so far.


----------



## EmMure

yea im in bronze lol


----------



## burwij

Did you play, or get another forfeit this time? lol

I checked my opponent yesterday and saw him as a 1700 Zerg. I checked tonight before our match and he was 2100 playing Terran having played 20+ games today.

I got 2-0'd lewls.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I can:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marauder
It's just below the picture.

Yeah, I'm blind.


----------



## EmMure

i played.lol it was a 1500 plat,i won 2.1


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
As far as I can tell it's up to date. The patch number is in the upper-left, and I think that's the current one. I made sure tank damage was 35, that's all I could remember









While we're throwing links around:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_Wiki

I don't know if I'm just blind, but I can never find unit build times on Liquidpedia. That one has everything covered.

Edit: I'm blind, just found them, lol.

Lol, I added anyway. That wiki has lore and all that stuff, compared to liquipedia which is more strategy oriented.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
nobody cares im in round 3 of a major online tourney /cry!

Congrats! I'm jealous









edit: ^ WHAT show the replays


----------



## EmMure

not gonna link replays as they are quite bad lol.


----------



## thiru

Well you had to do some things right to win against a platinum player. Unless one of you cheesed









What happened?


----------



## burwij

I think there's actually something in the rules asking you not to post replays until the tourney is over anyway.

Good luck in the next round!


----------



## DoomDash

I just wish SCII Terran was SCI Terran. You can keep the Thor, give me back my vultures ( with mines ), sc1 tanks, and goliaths.


----------



## thiru

Give me back storm and reavers and carriers then


----------



## DoomDash

Believe me I would. Colossus is lame, I'd be playing Protoss too if Reavers were in. Colossus is like the least creative easy to use extremely powerful unit. It's stupid. Reavers = Skill. Storm = Skill. Colossus = my mom could win with them.


----------



## EmMure

he cheesed the first round and was destroyed lol 2nd game i wasnt prepared for a early siege push,and 3rd he tried to banshee bio ball me but i alrdy had an observer and enough stalkers and immortals out to handle it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
he cheesed the first round and was destroyed lol 2nd game i wasnt prepared for a early siege push,and 3rd he tried to banshee bio ball me but i alrdy had an observer and enough stalkers and immortals out to handle it

If a Bronze player can beat a 1500 Plat Terran, why are you guys ever having problems







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
he cheesed the first round and was destroyed lol 2nd game i wasnt prepared for a early siege push,and 3rd he tried to banshee bio ball me but i alrdy had an observer and enough stalkers and immortals out to handle it

Hahah nice. What was the cheese precisely? proxy rax and bunker?


----------



## DoomDash

Is there a SC1 UMS anywhere yet? Like mimicking SC1?


----------



## EmMure

cause maybe we have really good nights when the other has a garbage night haha

yea he tried to proxy rax it but had bad placement and it died fast


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Is there a SC1 UMS anywhere yet? Like mimicking SC1?

Custom maps which uses SC1 rules? yeah there are a few I think.


----------



## DoomDash

Rules, and units? What do you mean by rules?


----------



## thiru

Stats and units I mean.

I haven't tried them, but I have seen them while searching custom maps. Like one of them is named Lost temple SC1 or something.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I'm going to go practice after my sad laddering day. Join me everybody!


----------



## DoomDash

Also there is a chance I may be off for a week because of waiting for my 480 to 580 GTX step it up







. I'm #5 in line right now ( most guys are 500+ ).

Waiting for a practice partner to log on, wink wink.


----------



## thiru

lucky you I know someone who's 515 or something


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I actually ahve to go play hockey in 3 hours otherwise Id play a bit.


----------



## yks

Just got done obs'ing some of DoomDash's games as random.

Some funny stuff ensued when he got Toss ;] J/k


----------



## DoomDash

My toss is not very good







. Least exp. But I do like warp prisms and blink!


----------



## EmMure

round 3 im playing a 1800 diamond im ****d lol


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Also there is a chance I may be off for a week because of waiting for my 480 to 580 GTX step it up







. I'm #5 in line right now ( most guys are 500+ ).

Waiting for a practice partner to log on, wink wink.

Buy a video card from Fry's and return it when you get your 580


----------



## DoomDash

I don't have $ at all







.


----------



## thiru

You can probably play SC2 with a $50 card.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You can probably play SC2 with a $50 card.

I have another computer that has SCII on it ( My gfs ), but I don't know if I'll play.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't have $ at all







.

No credit card?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
No credit card?

No I know that I would miss use it







.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well I'm going to go practice after my sad laddering day. Join me everybody!

Let's practice.


----------



## DoomDash

Are you on now? I can play some.

How dare you pass me in ladder again.


----------



## jadenx2

im missing pylon textures, the blue radius around it, anyone know what could be causing this?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Are you on now? I can play some.

How dare you pass me in ladder again.









Just got rolled in a 2v2 with my bro against Mindset..again and somehow we were favored and lost 19 points lmao.

Some of his records:

RootDrewbie/Mindset: 225-65
Sorcery/Mindset: 153-20


----------



## DoomDash

New avatar ! <3


----------



## asus1

hey guys, i was just looking around and found that when new season starts, everything will be wiped except mmr.
So all the achievement points and league points will be gone?


----------



## jadenx2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *asus1*


hey guys, i was just looking around and found that when new season starts, everything will be wiped except mmr.
So all the achievement points and league points will be gone?










source?


----------



## asus1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jadenx2*


source?


look around page 505 or 506


----------



## Tchernobyl

i figure the points (1500 diamond terran, for example) would be wiped, but they'd be totally, completely and utterly ******ed to remove achievements, especially those awarding images.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont really care about the wiping but im sure some of the high diamond guys are going to be pissed. I do think the 1 placement match is pretty ******ed though. How are they going to determine who's going to be placed where with 1 game? I hope MMR will play a role in this.


----------



## Exostenza

Hey guys i Have a problem and was wondering if anyone else is experiencing it as I can find nothing on google.

The psi field of pylons will not show up when I am placing them on any high ground and all my buildings on the high ground have litte psi fields. On the low ground everything displays correctly. I am having a really hard time setting up my bases at the start because I cannot see where my field is and cannot properly place my pylons.

Any ideas?

I think it might have to do with my ATi 10.10d drivers and will try to go back to the official 10.10 or 10.9 to see later.


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Exostenza*


Hey guys i Have a problem and was wondering if anyone else is experiencing it as I can find nothing on google.

The psi field of pylons will not show up when I am placing them on any high ground and all my buildings on the high ground have litte psi fields.
...
I think it might have to do with my ATi 10.10d drivers and will try to go back to the official 10.10 or 10.9 to see later.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *jadenx2*


im missing pylon textures, the blue radius around it, anyone know what could be causing this?


Same thing here. The pylon radius is missing, and you can't see unit selection circles while on ramps. There was a mini-patch to SC2 on Tuesday, and I also just installed the 10.10d hotfix drivers - not sure which is the root cause.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *asus1*


hey guys, i was just looking around and found that when new season starts, everything will be wiped except mmr.
So all the achievement points and league points will be gone?











Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont really care about the wiping but im sure some of the high diamond guys are going to be pissed. I do think the 1 placement match is pretty ******ed though. How are they going to determine who's going to be placed where with 1 game? I hope MMR will play a role in this.


http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/78...l#post11297030

Points and rank reset, MMR stays constant; achievement points are permanent. The 1 placement match is just an activity check and has nothing to do with your league status. You shouldn't see a change in your league level from season to season unless you were due for a promotion/demotion anyway.


----------



## rhed5

is it possible to get demoted?

if so, can you get demoted thru inactivity?


----------



## asus1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


is it possible to get demoted?

if so, can you get demoted thru inactivity?


Most likely not unless your division is very active and you go below#100 but you can get denoted if you keep on losing to someone whose your own level.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/78...l#post11297030

Points and rank reset, MMR stays constant; achievement points are permanent. The 1 placement match is just an activity check and has nothing to do with your league status. You shouldn't see a change in your league level from season to season unless you were due for a promotion/demotion anyway.


That doesnt sound so bad then. But honestly I dont care too much.


----------



## ThumperSD

God it feels good to survive an MM/ghost push. I need to learn how to get my sentry before stalker (unless there is a scout). I have a habit for getting stalker/zealot first.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


is it possible to get demoted?

if so, can you get demoted thru inactivity?


Im pretty sure you can be demoted through inactivity though it's unlikely. You'll probably have to be rank 90-100 to get demoted through inactivity like asus said. I usually stay around the same rank even when I dont play for an extended period of time. Id assume it's a lot easier to get demoted by losing games than inactivity.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Really? I haven't played in 2 months and I still haven't been demoted.


----------



## BigFan

You go to sleep and all of a sudden, you have like 10 pages filled with posts









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Bad night of laddering. 3-5 ended up 4 points lower than when I started. Lots of Terrans tonight.

3 Protoss ( one of which was the same guy who beat me twice ), 1 Zerg, 4 Terrans. Almost never get that many Terrans. One match was 40 minutes and I could have sworn I was ahead early.. but I guess not. Zerg was on scrap station, which I don't mind playing, but obviously its harder.


Well, being tired plays a role, so does laddering too much which is why taking a break is good









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


im into round 3 of the pny tourney lol


Congrats, keep at it!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Find it and you will be rewarded in rep and women*. ( * No women included )












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Believe me I would. Colossus is lame, I'd be playing Protoss too if Reavers were in. Colossus is like the least creative easy to use extremely powerful unit. It's stupid. Reavers = Skill. Storm = Skill. Colossus = my mom could win with them.


Well, colossi aren't bad, just really powerful against forces that cluster which is pretty much MM among other things(slings, blings, etc....). Reavers were great especially if you dropped them into your opponent's mineral lines









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


he cheesed the first round and was destroyed lol 2nd game i wasnt prepared for a early siege push,and 3rd he tried to banshee bio ball me but i alrdy had an observer and enough stalkers and immortals out to handle it


Sounds like you did great!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Custom maps which uses SC1 rules? yeah there are a few I think.


Plenty of customs ones, some which have both sc1 and sc2 units, but, they do mention it's a bit inbalanced, but, still fun









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


cause maybe we have really good nights when the other has a garbage night haha

yea he tried to proxy rax it but had bad placement and it died fast


Pretty much true for every league, had a week or so where I was losing 5 games straight in some cases









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also there is a chance I may be off for a week because of waiting for my 480 to 580 GTX step it up







. I'm #5 in line right now ( most guys are 500+ ).

*Waiting for a practice partner to log on*, wink wink.


Well, since you play soo many games a day, you shouldn't have a problem with your skills becoming rusty. I would've joined you had it not been 4:30 in the morning









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


round 3 im playing a 1800 diamond im ****d lol


lol, you never know, they might try to cheese for a quick win, so, keep an eye out and don't forget to keep making probes, scouting, etc.... basically the basics









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


God it feels good to survive an MM/ghost push. I need to learn how to get my sentry before stalker (unless there is a scout). I have a habit for getting stalker/zealot first.

Im pretty sure you can be demoted through inactivity though it's unlikely. You'll probably have to be rank 90-100 to get demoted through inactivity like asus said. I usually stay around the same rank even when I dont play for an extended period of time. Id assume it's a lot easier to get demoted by losing games than inactivity.


Most pros I've seen try to get a decent # of sentries out early if they worried about being knocked out, probably to ff their ramp to buy sometime









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Really? I haven't played in 2 months and I still haven't been demoted.


Interesting.

An interesting thing I found is that recently most of my games have been against Terran whenever I played Z. If I go for random, I've gotten some P or other Z, kinda odd








I think I should also lay off using smilies







<--


----------



## DoomDash

I'll be on in a little bit when my hands warm up.

ALSO: GSL Season 2 is on tonight ( finals!!!! ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'll be on in a little bit when my hands warm up.

ALSO: GSL Season 2 is on tonight ( finals!!!! ).


Hands warm up? Is it cold down there?







and Season 2 isn't done yet?







Thought they finished a while back(1 week at least







)

I'll try and be on for some games as well, glad that my net is working again after going down this morning


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Hands warm up? Is it cold down there?







and Season 2 isn't done yet?







Thought they finished a while back(1 week at least







)

I'll try and be on for some games as well, glad that my net is working again after going down this morning










Yeah it's chilly... I do live in a Northern state







.

I lied though, I may nap.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah it's chilly... I do live in a Northern state







.


ah, I see, my knowledge of the US is very little, more knowledge about Canada and other countries









Edit: Just saw your edit, lol, again do whatever helps you feel better, want you to be at full strength when you are taken down


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


ah, I see, my knowledge of the US is very little, more knowledge about Canada and other countries









Edit: Just saw your edit, lol, again do whatever helps you feel better, want you to be at full strength when you are taken down










You don't watch "That 70's show" ?







. My state.

I don't need to be at full strength for anyone below high Platinum







. I did lose to a 1500 plat player yesterday in practice, but I was playing Protoss and it was a fluke







. I beat him 6 games pretty bad besides that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't watch "That 70's show" ?







. My state.

I don't need to be at full strength for anyone below high Platinum







. I did lose to a 1500 plat player yesterday in practice, but I was playing Protoss and it was a fluke







. I beat him 6 games pretty bad besides that.


Unfortunately, no, but I've heard of it. I've heard of your state before, I probably heard of them all, just don't know their location on a map







As for the whole full strength thing, well everyone has their on and off days, so, surprise can happen







Due to having not played against you in a while, I don't know how well you play now and neither do you of my playstyle







BTW, I should mention that most of my games are against terrans, so, I've become accustomed to the MMM ball, thor+marines pushes, etc.... unless you bring out bc's or do some crazy micro, there aren't many T opponents that surprise me nowadays!


----------



## DoomDash

Well if you can beat me it would be pretty amazing. I have never once lost to anyone below Platinum, not even close. It's possible but very unlikely.. even if Zerg > T now days







. Very big difference in leagues.

Well I'm saying my Terran.. my toss is weak.. and so is my ZvZ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well if you can beat me it would be pretty amazing. I have never once lost to anyone below Platinum, not even close. It's possible but very unlikely.. even if Zerg > T now days







. Very big difference in leagues.

Well I'm saying my Terran.. my toss is weak.. and so is my ZvZ.


well, I'm not afraid of a challenge







I think Z = T ATM but zergs who have been playing the race since it was UP are better than those who haven't and thus their hard work is being rewarded. True, big difference between leagues, but, that doesn't mean that it's impossible to win, just less likely due to you having more experience which you already mentioned








Well I would expect your P and Z to be your worst due to less experience, but, it's your T that I want to play against, always nice to play a higher ranked opponent to see where you stand and what you need to improve on








Anyways, shouldn't keep you from your nap, but, hopefully I'll be able to catch you a bit later on(hopefully not 1 or 2 in the morning







) for some games


----------



## DoomDash

I can spend an entire day crushing your spirit soon. I also never bought into that Z underpowered bs. People were playing Z like **** back then.


----------



## DoomDash

BTW over 1000 posts in this thread.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I can spend an entire day crushing your spirit soon. I also never bought into that Z underpowered bs. People were playing Z like **** back then.


lol, I don't really mind since I keep on improving my game everytime I play a game regardless of whether or not I won or lost







Infact, I don't mind losing to a higher ranked opponent as much as a lower one since I always work towards the goal of bettering my game and losing is only part of the process







I never thought that Z was crazy UP myself, but, I do think that roaches needed that +1 range as well as FG working against blink and an increase in building health







I think the current game is pretty balanced as is even though blink stalkers can be OP if micro'd correctly which was the reason that blizzard changed FG to get it to work against them. Jinro had a post about that and I think thiru linked it in this thread. Not sure how many people were playing Z back then, so, no comment there.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BTW over 1000 posts in this thread.


Yes, indeed, I've reached 588, second place!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, I don't really mind since I keep on improving my game everytime I play a game regardless of whether or not I won or lost







Infact, I don't mind losing to a higher ranked opponent as much as a lower one since I always work towards the goal of bettering my game and losing is only part of the process







I never thought that Z was crazy UP myself, but, I do think that roaches needed that +1 range as well as FG working against blink and an increase in building health







I think the current game is pretty balanced as is even though blink stalkers can be OP if micro'd correctly. Jinro had a post about that and I think thiru linked it in this thread. Not sure how many people were playing Z back then, so, no comment there.


You can ask yks I used blink micro a ton in my games he observed last night. That **** is sick, but OP? I can't comment on that because I only feel it would help against Z or P really.

I don't think the roach range was needed... in fact I think it was a step in the wrong direction. If roaches were given +4 to help vs Hellions, just nerfed the hellion range 1 more again, I don't care. I'm not a fan of hellions anymore anyways. I really feel like the roach is just ******edly good now, specifically against Protoss before mid-game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You can ask yks I used blink micro a ton in my games he observed last night. That **** is sick, but OP? I can't comment on that because I only feel it would help against Z or P really.

I don't think the roach range was needed... in fact I think it was a step in the wrong direction. If roaches were given +4 to help vs Hellions, just nerfed the hellion range 1 more again, I don't care. I'm not a fan of hellions anymore anyways. I really feel like the roach is just ******edly good now, specifically against Protoss before mid-game.


It is sick indeed, but, I was saying that Jinro believes its OP, not me, but, imagine having 15 roaches against 12 stalkers, you can focus fire, micro injuried back then regenerate shield and attack again, intense micro, but, great results







I've never faced a hellion harass before, but I always lay down a crawler anyways, so, it wouldn't have affected me as much as others who don't. Roach is not a bad unit to start, you can still kite them with stalker like before, it did make it easier to kite zealots though and a bit harder to kite using marines, but, marauders and stalker with range 6 I believe have it a bit harder. Either way Blizzard patches the game, I'm still playing it, so, it doesn't matter to me if they nerf or buff zerg


----------



## DoomDash

Well I feel the same as far as patches go. Though banelings make me wanna throw something. That and thinking about Protoss having 4 pretty good counters to the tank kinda piss me off, mainly because it's my favorite unit







.


----------



## yks

BigFan vs DoomDash, go go go!

yks as Ref so I can shoutcast and upload to youtube! ;]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


BigFan vs DoomDash, go go go!

yks as Ref so I can shoutcast and upload to youtube! ;]


lol, It's gonna have to be in a bit though, since I'll brb. Although, I haven't played a game in 3+ days, so, I gotta do a quick game or so before playing against him


----------



## yks

1st game warmup, 2nd game, REAL game. go go go


----------



## DoomDash

I'm basically just not happy how Terran is designed to be played. It's like Blizzard want's us to be mainly bio, and I just don't find that as fun as mech play. I would much rather see Marauders nerfed, and siege tanks buffed.. or the Goliath back. I just hate bio.

I'll be back in 4-5 hours probably. Sorry







.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60HuK

HuK is currently streaming, btw.


----------



## DoomDash

Trying to keep me up are we?


----------



## yks

Is it working?

Horrible quality though. No sound and low bitrate


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah, no thanks, and huk is like, my least favorite pro Protoss player.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm basically just not happy how Terran is designed to be played. It's like Blizzard want's us to be mainly bio, and I just don't find that as fun as mech play. I would much rather see Marauders nerfed, and siege tanks buffed.. or the Goliath back. I just hate bio.

I'll be back in 4-5 hours probably. Sorry







.


I agree, I think a slight marauder nerf and slight buff to tanks(+5 vs. armored) is not a bad idea, but, I think as someone on sc2 forums mentioned, Blizzard is trying to avoid making 7-8 tanks literally impossible to stop. Think leap frogging them then you'll see my point







I did like Goliath though, although, their ground damage was pretty horrible, but, their air was awesome. I do miss lockdown though








Well, I'll be up for another 3-4 hours, so, maybe we can catch a game then otherwise it'll be tommorrow







Would stay up for more, but, gotta wake up early tommorrow









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60HuK
HuK is currently streaming, btw.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Trying to keep me up are we?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Is it working?
Horrible quality though. No sound and low bitrate



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, no thanks, and huk is like, my least favorite pro Protoss player.










Oh well, you tried









I don't mind playing against you yks as well, but, it'll have to be in a while, would be interesting to see how well you play


----------



## yks

You'll probably beat me, but I don't mind, I accept the fact that I am probably the worst SC2 player in the world.

DoomDash is going to give me lessons cause my PvZ is horrible. =D

Just let me know when you're ready.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You'll probably beat me, but I don't mind, I accept the fact that I am probably the worst SC2 player in the world.

DoomDash is going to give me lessons cause my PvZ is horrible. =D

Just let me know when you're ready.


lol, well, my zerg isn't perfect and I'm working on my macro and aggression big time, but, since the first 1vs1 game I played, I've improved big time, especially my timings which I was messing up







I don't get many P players nowadays, kinda disappointing, since, stalkers+zealots are stronger than MM, but, I'll let you know when I'm ready, likely by just logging into SC2 and adding you then







As for being the worst, lol, doubt it, there is always someone worse than you which brings it to the point, who is the worst sc2 player?


----------



## CramComplex

Is it me or is BNet wonking out right now?


----------



## yks

^ It's Rolling restart.

edit: BigFan, best way to contact me is probably AIM, or luckily catch me when I'm viewing this thread. I'm hardly on SC when I'm not playing unless I'm shoutcasting, and I haven't played since I got angry at B.Net for not counting my ~100pt wins.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


^ It's Rolling restart.

edit: BigFan, best way to contact me is probably AIM, or luckily catch me when I'm viewing this thread. I'm hardly on SC when I'm not playing unless I'm shoutcasting, and I haven't played since I got angry at B.Net for not counting my ~100pt wins.


ok, makes sense. If you do read this, I'm going on now. Anyone who is interested, add me and I do mind a game or two








As for being angry, why would they not give you that 100pt win? Is there any reason you can think of because that's just too odd? My only experience was a 2vs2 game, but, the next day they had the loss in my history, maybe the system just glitched as it was awarding you the points, stuff happens, but, you got the experience which counts just as much, likely more


----------



## turbonerds

Terran is getting really boring.. i'm 1750 rated atm, and every single matchup I'm forced to go bioball or some sort of BioMeCh, BioGhost, Bio Banshee/vikes , BIO BIO BIO.............

Hope Season 2 gets announced soon, might switch to Zerg.


----------



## Exostenza

For anyone that has the ATi 10.10d drivers if you just go back to the official 10.10 drivers then you will not have the psi field not showing problem with the pylons.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbonerds*


Terran is getting really boring.. i'm 1750 rated atm, and every single matchup I'm forced to go bioball or some sort of BioMeCh, BioGhost, Bio Banshee/vikes , BIO BIO BIO.............

Hope Season 2 gets announced soon, might switch to Zerg.


Well, bio is an important part of T. Having a small MMM force is needed if you plan to use tanks or most mech units, because, mech on their own have their disadvantages. Tanks are great at range, but, if a zerg has slings or a protoss has zealots, charge and speed of slings will make it so that they reach the tank in no time. Likewise, thor is big and needs support against slings, zealots. Ghost is required against P, I think it's more along the lines of these are proven unit combo. Likewise with zerg, it's a lot of slings+blings for MMM or slings+mutas or possibly slings+roaches or if it gets far enough, slings+ultras, similar idea


----------



## Sainesk

do you think there will ever be some pro multiplayer tournaments?

*starts making "go OCN SC2 team" sign...*


----------



## yks

GSL Finals in 3 hours~!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turbonerds* 
Terran is getting really boring.. i'm 1750 rated atm, and every single matchup I'm forced to go bioball or some sort of BioMeCh, BioGhost, Bio Banshee/vikes , BIO BIO BIO.............

Hope Season 2 gets announced soon, might switch to Zerg.

That's what I said about Terran. Sucks being forced into boring bio.


----------



## blackedv

amen but its really the only thing that works for terran


----------



## EmMure

guess who's into round 4 of the tourney and is now in the top 75 lol


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
guess who's into round 4 of the tourney and is now in the top 75 lol

How did you beat a diamond player


----------



## yks

that's replay worthy.


----------



## EmMure

by him lagging out lol!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How did you beat a diamond player 

Maybe he didn't show







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
by him lagging out lol!

That explains it.


----------



## yks

Are you playing on a different account cause I don't see you on the player list.


----------



## EmMure

it's prlly under heezay which was my old name


----------



## thiru

GSL finals starting within 30 minutes!


----------



## DoomDash

nestea to boxer : plz use marines only

boxer to nestea : yes I will use only marines and still crush you


----------



## thiru

It's starting!









use spoilers please.


----------



## EgoProxy

Tastosis predicts NesTea wins 4:2.... No way .. BOXER HWAIITTING!


----------



## EgoProxy

*foxer foxer foxer foxer foxer* marines ! Yeah ill make em all day long!


----------



## yks

What the f*ck

that was an incredible first game.


----------



## eternaldj

Marines are OP.


----------



## EgoProxy

mules = 6 drones... outstanding... foxer can do this 4 games in a row....


----------



## thiru

For anyone interested in watching, here:

Official free stream: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/live/ (log in, download Gomplayer and click on SQ Test stream)
Re-stream: http://www.livestream.com/kim347


----------



## DoomDash

If he hatches first.


----------



## EgoProxy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If he hatches first.

I want a proof of concept. I want just that. Go SP first Nestea. I know Foxer can do it!


----------



## EgoProxy

@commercial...Can you say awkward?...


----------



## DoomDash

Always scout your battleground


----------



## EgoProxy

@GSL
18yo vs a 29yo... sorry you old folks... you just are too far from your prime.


----------



## thiru

Looks like Foxer's not a one trick pony.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
18yo vs a 29yo... sorry you old folks... you just are too far from your prime.


----------



## yks

Okay. Scrap Station is next.

THE*** zerg map. He better get this.


----------



## EgoProxy

Queue the power-pop BGM ^_^


----------



## ThumperSD

Foxer making thors and marauders? Will be interesting what he decides to do next game


----------



## yks

He didn't plan to go thor marauders, just typical counter-play.


----------



## EgoProxy

I want him to go all in scv marine again!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Why y'all talking about foxer?


----------



## EgoProxy

The thinking process boxer has.... intense.... scrap with island min. wait for overlord to pass> build cc> how do i force ground play from zerg?>> make double engr

EDIT: Awww expo was spotted too soon for it to be any effective.


----------



## thiru

GSL finals right now. Game 3, Nestea vs Boxer (aka fake boxer, Foxer).


----------



## DoomDash

Baneling roach..


----------



## EgoProxy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
GSL finals right now. Game 3, Nestea vs Boxer (aka fake boxer, Foxer).

Welcome to our little party.


----------



## yks

=D

As I said.

Scrap Station. THE* Zerg Map.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
Welcome to our little party.

I was telling yellowtoblerone.

Anyway building all those reactors killed Foxer. But really interesting strat!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What the fudge! connection limit exceeded?!?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
What the fudge! connection limit exceeded?!?

http://www.livestream.com/kim347

The streamer puts his own music on between the games though.


----------



## EgoProxy

Yeah. Timing push on NesTea was flawless


----------



## DoomDash

I got in on the gomtv stream from earlier







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
What the fudge! connection limit exceeded?!?

go to sd test


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
go to sd test

It's full too.


----------



## EgoProxy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
http://www.livestream.com/kim347

The streamer puts his own music on between the games though.

Yeah.. the music was filthy sick... Flux Pavillion wub wub wub x10


----------



## ThumperSD

Install Gomtv and open this URL: http://www.gomtv.net/gox/flash_live....f15f685&lid=22

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
He didn't plan to go thor marauders, just typical counter-play.

Marauder is counter play but thor drop was planned from the start


----------



## DoomDash

Stop killing Foxer banelings!!!


----------



## thiru

Yes! more games


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Install Gomtv and open this URL: http://www.gomtv.net/gox/flash_live....f15f685&lid=22

Marauder is counter play but thor drop was planned from the start

Indeed.

The Jungle Basin game was a testament of studying. Foxer tried to do what he did to FruitDealer.

But Nestea didn't send his OV up the center and made a pre-emptive SpineCrawler.


----------



## EgoProxy

Anyone else with me in rooting for the underdog foxer?


----------



## DoomDash

me.


----------



## EgoProxy

Very, very impressed with game 5 so far.


----------



## DoomDash

Foxer is SICK.


----------



## yks

I want it to go to game 7. Xel'Naga is a good map for Zerg.


----------



## ThumperSD

Foxer abusing the map to the max puahaha

I think Nestea will take this one on Xel Naga caverns though


----------



## dezshiz

nah foxer is gonna win this.. he too pro


----------



## EgoProxy

Time to call foxer optimusPRIME from now on... ^_^


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Foxer abusing the map to the max puahaha

I think Nestea will take this one on Xel Naga caverns though

His map specific builds are awesome.


----------



## yks

muwhahahahah Game 7~!!!!


----------



## EgoProxy

87$


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
His map specific builds are awesome.

Agreed. Spawning location will be HUGE in game 7 on metalopolis.

Im so glad I stayed up


----------



## DoomDash

After this, I wan't to see a Foxer vs Boxer show match.


----------



## EgoProxy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Agreed. Spawning location will be HUGE in game 7 on metalopolis.

Im so glad I stayed up

off topic. how do you like your m-audios? I seriously looked earlier at bx8a's and was drooling.


----------



## ThumperSD

Spawning location doesnt look good for Nestea


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
off topic. how do you like your m-audios? I seriously looked earlier at bx8a's and was drooling.

I love them. They lack bass but my sub is coming on Tuesday







. Will be sweet once I get some thump to it.


----------



## EgoProxy

**** **** **** **** !! ! Marine scv


----------



## EgoProxy

Good night fellas. We won't be seeing a name change for Foxer.


----------



## ThumperSD

Wow nestea played that perfectly GG


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Zerg wins again! 2 GSL's in a row.


----------



## thiru

*PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS!!!*

/caps

and edit your posts!


----------



## yks

NesTea is like, "I'm NOT FRUITDEALER, YOU CAN'T BEAT ME LIKE THIS"

for the metalop strat


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
*PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS!!!*

/caps

and edit your posts!

I did, but if I didn't want to know the results I'd avoid this thread like the plague







.


----------



## thiru

Spoiler tags are: 


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Hehe Nestea beat all of Foxer's marine plays (except the first one because he probably didn't expect it on the 2nd biggest map.


----------



## DoomDash

From battle.net forums lol



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



*Title* Zerg FE is completely balanced.

5000apm boxer, 2 rax + 15 SCV all in vs 14hatch 0 zergling base.

Close position metalopolis.

Zerg still wins anyway.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
From battle.net forums lol



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



*Title* Zerg FE is completely balanced.

5000apm boxer, 2 rax + 15 SCV all in vs 14hatch 0 zergling base.

Close position metalopolis.

Zerg still wins anyway.














That's funny


----------



## dezshiz

Wow cant believe what happened on that last game... he choked lol..


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
From battle.net forums lol



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



*Title* Zerg FE is completely balanced.

5000apm boxer, 2 rax + 15 SCV all in vs 14hatch 0 zergling base.

Close position metalopolis.

Zerg still wins anyway.




There's some truth to that sarcasm.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
There's some truth to that sarcasm.

There is a lot of truth to it. I'm totally a QQer now but I don't care, that match up is crazy. So is PvZ.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...entpage=30#592

that about sums up how I feel right now.


----------



## Tchernobyl

so if i missed all the games because I was sleeping, where would i go to watch them? That kim347 stream doesnt seem to list them...


----------



## thiru

You're going to have to wait a bit until someone hosts the replays..


----------



## DoomDash

Another mediocre day of ladder. Went up, but not by much. Even Match with a 2200 Terran that I got -14 for might do it







.

PS: Banelings are ******ed.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There is a lot of truth to it. I'm totally a QQer now but I don't care, that match up is crazy. So is PvZ.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...entpage=30#592

that about sums up how I feel right now.


Hey at least you didn't drop down to 3rd place. First in my 2v2R division is over 2,000 now. Only 50 back tho.

Boxer tried the same build too many times. Nestea was probably expecting it. It's easy to see why he lost.

Was anyone else a bit disappointed? I felt like Season 1 finals were much better. Every game was RUSH RUSH RUSH, and we didn't get to see any epic macro games.

Here is one restream:

http://www.livestream.com/amapro/vid...d-4df474bb0b00

I can't remember if that is the good one. I didn't save the link on the other. One of them is extremely choppy. Just look around on reddit to find the others.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Hey at least you didn't drop down to 3rd place. First in my 2v2R division is over 2,000 now. Only 50 back tho.

Boxer tried the same build too many times. Nestea was probably expecting it. It's easy to see why he lost.

Was anyone else a bit disappointed? I felt like Season 1 finals were much better. Every game was RUSH RUSH RUSH, and we didn't get to see any epic macro games.

Here is one restream:

http://www.livestream.com/amapro/vid...d-4df474bb0b00

I can't remember if that is the good one. I didn't save the link on the other. One of them is extremely choppy. Just look around on reddit to find the others.


Foxer knew reality, Z > T in late game. This is what real boxer and nada have been saying. Foxer had some luck in the tournament beating Zergs at their weakest, which was early. It's not a surprise to me he wanted to avoid banelings before hooks.... and let's be honest on paper he would have won that game 7. I guess there is almost no risk reward for hatch before pool even at close positions.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


guess who's into round 4 of the tourney and is now in the top 75 lol


Nice work :thumb

Do those websites you linked to thiru still work?









Edit: Hit 1234 post, lol. Curious, have you guys ever seen a P or T expand early like really early?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



" I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.

First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.

So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody use the reduce mouse lag option? Is it worth it? I havent noticed any loss in FPS from it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Nice work :thumb

Do those websites you linked to thiru still work?









Edit: Hit 1234 post, lol. Curious, have you guys ever seen a P or T expand early like really early?


How early is really early? I FE sometimes right after my cybernetics core depending on map and spawn location.


----------



## yks

15 Nexus on Scrap Station is probably as early as it gets.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Anybody use the reduce mouse lag option? Is it worth it? I havent noticed any loss in FPS from it.

How early is really early? I FE sometimes right after my cybernetics core depending on map and spawn location.


Well, I played against a P yesterday on Xelnaga cavern and upon realizing he had one gateway, decided to attack with some slings, but, he was able to repel the attack. He was expanding at that time, before he even got cc. I am still baffled as to how he was able to hold off my constant attacks. At one point I had 20+ roaches or so against a couple of stalkers with 1-2 cannons, attacked from both sides and yet I wasn't able to do anything. Was very frustrating and he just kept on outexpanding me, in turn my eco suffered greatly since I was constantly harassing him(never will I do that again







). Suffice to say, I lost that game, he had 4 bases, one being a gold, all within 25 minutes of gameplay. He reminded me of some of those pro replays where they close of their expansion leaving only one place, like using a pylon+forge+gateway with some cannons around on metaplosis. It was pretty much that and I was kinda surprised at the early exp and thought that I might be able to take it down and win the game early, but, wasn't








I'll post up the replay once I get on my rig.
Here's the interesting part: He was actually using ALL the different protoss units minus colossi and air units. He stormed my 19 mutas and his couple of stalkers did enough damage to make me pull back. He merged them into archons when they ran out of energy, got all attack upgrade and half of shields ones, etc.... He added dts into his mix when he made his final attack and with almost no defense due to the constant harass, I was taken out pretty easily







He's the kicker, he was ranked bronze with a 50% or so win rate


----------



## DoomDash

Wow do I miss SC1 units. I just played the SC1+2 total conversion map. Totally awesome, even if it's not balanced at all. Someone play this with me.


----------



## DoomDash

*vent*
I think I'd rather play SC1 balanced for SCII's engine. Anyone with me? I just played that SC1+SC2 Total conversion custom map, and it reminded me of the good old days of spider mines and metal vs Protoss. Am I living in the past? You can keep your stupid hellion Blizzard, give me my Vulture. In terms of creativity I feel like SCII is 10 steps back. Where are my spider mines? Where are Reavers? Where are lurkers? Where are my Goliaths? Instead we have all these crazy powerful units that require much less micro in comparison like banes, thors, immortal, colossus, roach, marauders ect. I rarely see Hydra's as well. Why hydra when you can roach in most situations?


----------



## yks

You are living in the past and it is time to take steps forward. Change is inevitable. ;]


----------



## yks

http://sc2rep.com/

All the Finals replays are there btw.


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*vent*
I think I'd rather play SC1 balanced for SCII's engine. Anyone with me? I just played that SC1+SC2 Total conversion custom map, and it reminded me of the good old days of spider mines and metal vs Protoss. Am I living in the past? You can keep your stupid hellion Blizzard, give me my Vulture. In terms of creativity I feel like SCII is 10 steps back. Where are my spider mines? Where are Reavers? Where are lurkers? Where are my Goliaths? Instead we have all these crazy powerful units that require much less micro in comparison like banes, thors, immortal, colossus, roach, marauders ect. I rarely see Hydra's as well. Why hydra when you can roach in most situations?


Also you have to remember that they are holding back units from the MP for the release of the 2 other games. The SC2 mp experience is far from complete.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Exostenza*


Also you have to remember that they are holding back units from the MP for the release of the 2 other games. The SC2 mp experience is far from complete.


Yeah I just hope they realize some of the things that I said.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You are living in the past and it is time to take steps forward. Change is inevitable. ;]


Better is better, it doesn't matter if it's 10 years later or not.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wow do I miss SC1 units. I just played the SC1+2 total conversion map. Totally awesome, even if it's not balanced at all. Someone play this with me.


lol, well, if you are online later on, then we can probably play a game or two using the SC conversion map









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*vent*
I think I'd rather play SC1 balanced for SCII's engine. Anyone with me? I just played that SC1+SC2 Total conversion custom map, and it reminded me of the good old days of spider mines and metal vs Protoss. Am I living in the past? You can keep your stupid hellion Blizzard, give me my Vulture. In terms of creativity I feel like SCII is 10 steps back. Where are my spider mines? Where are Reavers? Where are lurkers? Where are my Goliaths? Instead we have all these crazy powerful units that require much less micro in comparison like banes, thors, immortal, colossus, roach, marauders ect. I rarely see Hydra's as well. Why hydra when you can roach in most situations?


Well, I'll be the first to admit that I miss SC1, in terms of the units. Hydras were monstrious and even carriers while are better in sc2, are rather slow to come out and rarely make an appearance where in SC1, you'll see them most games. I HATE how you need overseers now to get detection, why is it that zerg has to get an overload(100) then morph(50/100) and then we send this unit near an opponent's base(150/100) with the chance of losing it and losing 8 supply, my point is that I don't see what was wrong with the OL's being detectors as well, was it OP? Maybe a bit, but, terrans have scans and ravens which have a lot of cool moves, likewise, observer are transparent unless enemy has detection







In terms of creativity, not sure, I mean all the units fit in line and they combined units to make new ones(vulture+firebat= hellion, so, speed of vulture with attack of firebat, etc....). I've used hydras as well in my last game against a T who went MMMT, although, he opened his tanks too late, so, my banes combined with my hydras annhiliated his forces







Hydras are better used against protoss though due to their high dps and their light armor which is great against gateways units(no bonus damage if I recall correctly)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Exostenza*


Also you have to remember that they are holding back units from the MP for the release of the 2 other games. The SC2 mp experience is far from complete.


I agree, I think they'll bring back the lurkers for HoTS, maybe even bring back reavers and other sc1 units, we'll just have to wait and see and really I'm excited at what they might add, hopefully zerg will get a couple of nice units to play with


----------



## DoomDash

I just played that map with Nevaziah, it's so funny.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*vent*
I think I'd rather play SC1 balanced for SCII's engine. Anyone with me? I just played that SC1+SC2 Total conversion custom map, and it reminded me of the good old days of spider mines and metal vs Protoss. Am I living in the past? You can keep your stupid hellion Blizzard, give me my Vulture. In terms of creativity I feel like SCII is 10 steps back. Where are my spider mines? Where are Reavers? Where are lurkers? Where are my Goliaths? Instead we have all these crazy powerful units that require much less micro in comparison like banes, thors, immortal, colossus, roach, marauders ect. I rarely see Hydra's as well. Why hydra when you can roach in most situations?


Well the game has evolved and I dont see it going back. I do miss SC1 though. Hydras definitely used less because it takes much longer to tech up to now requiring a lair. Blizzard wants to make the game easier to micro and macro so even noobs can play. SC1 definitely takes more skill than SC2 because of this. I still love the game though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, I played against a P yesterday on Xelnaga cavern and upon realizing he had one gateway, decided to attack with some slings, but, he was able to repel the attack. He was expanding at that time, before he even got cc. I am still baffled as to how he was able to hold off my constant attacks. At one point I had 20+ roaches or so against a couple of stalkers with 1-2 cannons, attacked from both sides and yet I wasn't able to do anything. Was very frustrating and he just kept on outexpanding me, in turn my eco suffered greatly since I was constantly harassing him(never will I do that again







). Suffice to say, I lost that game, he had 4 bases, one being a gold, all within 25 minutes of gameplay. He reminded me of some of those pro replays where they close of their expansion leaving only one place, like using a pylon+forge+gateway with some cannons around on metaplosis. It was pretty much that and I was kinda surprised at the early exp and thought that I might be able to take it down and win the game early, but, wasn't








I'll post up the replay once I get on my rig.
Here's the interesting part: He was actually using ALL the different protoss units minus colossi and air units. He stormed my 19 mutas and his couple of stalkers did enough damage to make me pull back. He merged them into archons when they ran out of energy, got all attack upgrade and half of shields ones, etc.... He added dts into his mix when he made his final attack and with almost no defense due to the constant harass, I was taken out pretty easily







He's the kicker, he was ranked bronze with a 50% or so win rate










Xel Naga Caverns is kind of a bad map to do early pushes as the distance is so long. But then again your expansions are quite hard to defend until you get a decent wall off on one side. Did you try to outmacro him?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I agree, I think they'll bring back the lurkers for HoTS, maybe even bring back reavers and other sc1 units, we'll just have to wait and see and really I'm excited at what they might add, hopefully zerg will get a couple of nice units to play with










I dont see how lurkers + banelings + FG will have a place in one race. Same with Reavers. Unless they get rid of colossus, I dont see them bringing reavers back.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean I love SC2 as well, don't get me wrong. It's currently one of the best games out, if not the best for multiplayer. It's just that I miss some of the BW creativity and I really hope you guys are right about HOTS bringing it back.

Thumper, that's exactly what I want. Get rid of banes and Colossus for the lurker / reaver







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I mean I love SC2 as well, don't get me wrong. It's currently one of the best games out, if not the best for multiplayer. It's just that I miss some of the BW creativity and I really hope you guys are right about HOTS bringing it back.

Thumper, that's exactly what I want. Get rid of banes and Colossus for the lurker / reaver







.


No doubt. I miss BW too.

But I dont see Blizzard swapping out those units even though it can potentially make the game better.

If they do swap lurkers for the banelings, they have to make it faster to tech up to to deal with early MM and zealot pushes because upgrading to lair + lurker research + spawning the hydras/lurkers would take a long long time.


----------



## DoomDash

That's fine with me. Roach can turn into a lurker for all I care. Let me be able to have 200 APM to micro vs a lurker, instead of 400 APM to micro vs banes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Well the game has evolved and I dont see it going back. I do miss SC1 though. Hydras definitely used less because it takes much longer to tech up to now requiring a lair. Blizzard wants to make the game easier to micro and macro so even noobs can play. SC1 definitely takes more skill than SC2 because of this. I still love the game though.

Xel Naga Caverns is kind of a bad map to do early pushes as the distance is so long. But then again your expansions are quite hard to defend until you get a decent wall off on one side. Did you try to outmacro him?


Who doesn't miss SC1? I used the play with a friend or just other people against AI on that fastest map possible. It was great having 50,000 minerals and 10 vesper geysers in your base, no need to expand







but I did like the Big Game Hunters map a lot







Well, hydras are used less because their speed off creep is just horrible, otherwise, they are great to use in your base or using a nydus worm with a queen to spread creep(never tried this but I can see it working).
As for the cavern one, well, you are correct, the thing is, he expanded pretty much at the same time I did(maybe <1 min later), so, I thought that a timing attack right then and there with some pressure would take him down, since, he'll be low on units. After attacking several times and having to withdraw, I started working on my macro, but, he was too far ahead and immortals with stalkers rape slings+roaches, let's not forget hts who raped my mutas, lol. I tried to take them out first and move quickly when he casts it but having the ability to do storm as well as having >10 wrapgates or close to that meant that he could summon a couple of stalkers with plenty of hts to storm my mutas. I had to pull back, eventually, he attacked with a huge army and it was just really funny to see. I'll post up the replay, because, words don't really describe how well he outmacroed me









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont see how lurkers + banelings + FG will have a place in one race. Same with Reavers. Unless they get rid of colossus, I dont see them bringing reavers back.


well, I'll take a reaver over a colossus anyday. As for lurkers, if they move them to tech 1 with lower damage or at least early tech 2, then I'm all for it, because, we need banes for MM otherwise it's pretty much a slaughterfest







I do love roaches though, so I'll prefer that they juggle hydras with roaches so that you can get lurkers as soon as you tech to lair, possibly without researching it or research it before teching


----------



## Polska

If anyone wants to watch GSL Season 2 final I will be watching/streaming it now.

http://www.livestream.com/adamdz


----------



## BigFan

Any of you guys entering the newegg wanfest? Here is the link that thiru posted on the previous page, it's $30,000 for first place, could be interesting and I think you guys would do well especially those of us who play 20+ matches a day and still play regardless of whether they are tired or not








http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=competitions


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Any of you guys entering the newegg wanfest? Here is the link that thiru posted on the previous page, it's $30,000 for first place, could be interesting and I think you guys would do well especially those of us who play 20+ matches a day and still play regardless of whether they are tired or not








http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=competitions


I'm already signed up







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody know how often Thiru's ranking page update player names and portraits? I changed my character name but it has not updated in the last 20 hours.

EDIT: Just noticed it finally updated

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Any of you guys entering the newegg wanfest? Here is the link that thiru posted on the previous page, it's $30,000 for first place, could be interesting and I think you guys would do well especially those of us who play 20+ matches a day and still play regardless of whether they are tired or not








http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=competitions


Im probably going to join it. I wish they had the Madden 11 competition for PS3 too. Im pretty good at the game.


----------



## DoomDash

I wish they had T6 instead of SF.

Would be funny if oc.net players got to fight each other first round.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm already signed up







.


oh, nice. Not a bigfan of it putting the names out though








Is it for US residents only or can Canadians also participate?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Anybody know how often Thiru's ranking page update player names and portraits? I changed my character name but it has not updated in the last 20 hours.

EDIT: Just noticed it finally updated

Im probably going to join it. I wish they had the Madden 11 competition for PS3 too. Im pretty good at the game.


I just refresh my profile when I go to that page anyways, since, it refreshes it every once in a while


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Would be funny if Overclock.net players got to fight each other first round.


I don't know, I wouldn't want that


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Better is better, it doesn't matter if it's 10 years later or not.


That actually hits the nail on the head. Remember, Starcraft 1 benefitted from *years and years* of balance tweaking, which SC2 most definitely has not had.

I'd agree that some units (especially lurker D: ) should come back, but I don't quite see it for future expansions. That's more of a thing to add NEW, not before seen units, especially when you consider the development time (18 months+?).

If they do bring back EXISTING units into the game (as in, those that exist in the system but not in MP matches, such as swarm guardians, lurkers, goliaths, firebats, etc), I see that happening sometime down the line. Unlikely, but there's more of a chance than "waiting for HoTS" or so.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oh, nice. Not a bigfan of it putting the names out though







Is it for US residents only or can Canadians also participate?










Since it asks for your location, I'm sure it would tell you if you couldn't. Yeah the names thing is kinda odd, but it doesn't bother me. I see yks on it.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Any of you guys entering the newegg wanfest? Here is the link that thiru posted on the previous page, it's $30,000 for first place, could be interesting and I think you guys would do well especially those of us who play 20+ matches a day and still play regardless of whether they are tired or not








http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=competitions


It's not 30,000 for First place.

It's 30,000 in Prizes spread out for all 7 games.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Since it asks for your location, I'm sure it would tell you if you couldn't. Yeah the names thing is kinda odd, but it doesn't bother me. I see yks on it.


Yess you do =]


----------



## DoomDash

and lots of pros. If I get eliminated, I'd love for it to be by one of them.


----------



## ThumperSD

When is the deadline for the Wanfest tourney?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


That actually hits the nail on the head. Remember, Starcraft 1 benefitted from *years and years* of balance tweaking, which SC2 most definitely has not had.

I'd agree that some units (especially lurker D: ) should come back, but I don't quite see it for future expansions. That's more of a thing to add NEW, not before seen units, especially when you consider the development time (18 months+?).

If they do bring back EXISTING units into the game (as in, those that exist in the system but not in MP matches, such as swarm guardians, lurkers, goliaths, firebats, etc), I see that happening sometime down the line. Unlikely, but there's more of a chance than "waiting for HoTS" or so.


Agree, although, swarm guardians and firebats aren't coming back anytime soon. Swarm guardians = Broodlords without tech time and 
firebats+vulture=hellion, so, they wouldn't want a close duplicate of the unit


----------



## DoomDash

That's why I said get rid of the awful hellion. It's boring, and it's no vulture.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


It's not 30,000 for First place.

It's 30,000 in Prizes spread out for all 7 games.


oops, I see, either way, getting through the first round would be nice, although, I'm looking at reaching the top, but, we'll see









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Since it asks for your location, I'm sure it would tell you if you couldn't. Yeah the names thing is kinda odd, but it doesn't bother me. I see yks on it.


Likely, yes, I see yks too, I just think it's odd that they have the names, why not just id?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


and lots of pros. If I get eliminated, I'd love for it to be by one of them.


Who to be precise? I only saw someone called ...drewbie, but, other than that, I didn't see anyone else. Keep in mind I just skipped through the list quickly









Interesting website with some pics to look at: http://sc2gg.com/forum/lofiversion/i...hp/t11125.html

I disagree, hellion is an interesting unit. Infact, hellios+blue fry hydras for no gas cost, no imagine several of them, they do great against zlings, zealots, hydras, pretty much any light unit with blue flame upgrade and are great to take out workers using a drop or just using speed to bypass defense


----------



## ThumperSD

Also saw QXC and KawaiiRice


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's why I said get rid of the awful hellion. It's boring, and it's no vulture.


Hellion rush is actually quite nice. Gets rid of quite a few workers if they aren't paying attention or don't have a good army up.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Who to be precise? I only saw someone called ...drewbie, but, other than that, I didn't see anyone else. Keep in mind I just skipped through the list quickly










nEAnS, drewbie, LzGamer, qxc, KawaiiRice, AhhhBoxah (Mihai), AllAboutYou, CaTz, Suggy, HaShe

were all the names I could pick out from my quick glance.

Oh and your favorite player, me.


----------



## DoomDash

I know hellions can be nice, but Vultures were just as good at drone harass, except faster, better against other units ( some how ), and most importantly had a useful ability beyond drone / light killing ( mines ).

I used to do hellion builds all the time vs Z back before Z's figured out to counter it pretty easy. It was sick.. but the Hellion is no where near as good as the Vulture.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


nEAnS, drewbie, LzGamer, qxc, KawaiiRice, AhhhBoxah (Mihai), AllAboutYou, CaTz, Suggy, HaShe

were all the names I could pick out from my quick glance.

Oh and your favorite player, me.


ah I see, lol, all I've ever heard of was drewbie and qxc, never heard of all those other players. My favourite player, you?







lol, I thought it was FD









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I know hellions can be nice, but Vultures were just as good at drone harass, except faster, better against other units ( some how ), and most importantly had a useful ability beyond drone / light killing ( mines ).

I used to do hellion builds all the time vs Z back before Z's figured out to counter it pretty easy. It was sick.. but the Hellion is no where near as good as the Vulture.


Actually, while mines are great, vulture don't do splash like hellions. As to the better unit, can't comment


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


ah I see, lol, all I've ever heard of was drewbie and qxc, never heard of all those other players. My favourite player, you?







lol, I thought it was FD









Actually, while mines are great, vulture don't do splash like hellions. As to the better unit, can't comment










I can comment, and they are better. Splash is fine and dandy but I'd trade it for a more reliable vulture shot. In some situations Hellions will be better ( excluding mines and damage to non-light ), but over all the Vulture was far more versatile. It wasn't a one trick pony after people figured out how to use it.


----------



## DoomDash

From a thread on SCArena about the same thing:
"indeed. really miss vultures... they couldnt burn up 10 harvesters in a single blaze of glory, but they werent totally useless against big units cos they had mines. invaluable for map control and scouting. "

exactly.


----------



## ThumperSD

ThisIsJimmy is pretty good too. Top 200 I think.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I can comment, and they are better. Splash is fine and dandy but I'd trade it for a more reliable vulture shot. In some situations Hellions will be better ( excluding mines and damage to non-light ), but over all the Vulture was far more versatile. It wasn't a one trick pony after people figured out how to use it.


What if they gave Reapers the ability to plant mines?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What if they gave Reapers the ability to plant mines?


That would be OP as **** lol. Fly up a cliff, plant mines in front of unit producing structures.









I would like to see some sort of ability / reason to make more than 1 reaper though. Not sure what.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What if they gave Reapers the ability to plant mines?


They had that then took it out early beta because it was OP or something.

The mines in SCII suck anyways. They nerfed the **** out of them in SP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


They had that then took it out early beta because it was OP or something.

The mines in SCII suck anyways. They nerfed the **** out of them in SP.


Yeah they do.. and they look a lot worse than SC1 too. Kinda odd.

They are in the custom map I was just playing... still better than nothing *cough hellions cough*.


----------



## BigFan

You guys up for a game or two?


----------



## ThumperSD

I will be later tonight


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I will be later tonight


ok


----------



## ramenbuoy

yo waddup, alejandro here,

HOLY CRAP DID YOU GUYS WATCH GSL FINALS LAST NIGHT!???!?


----------



## Twistacles

^ Yup. Can be summed up with marine push or baneling bust.


----------



## xHassassin

:X

Where do you guys watch GSL?


----------



## DoomDash

I would link a place with the VOD's for stream ( with grease monkey ) and or download, but a avg warning poped up when I went to the page. It's where I watched last season.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Day9: tos and terran have to timing push zerg. Terran also have to timing push tos.

Agree or disagree?

I personally always lost to terrans that push early with 2 marine, 1 rauder timed with fast con shell in 1v1 maps as toss. So in that sense I do see terrans wining with timing pushes vs tos.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah, that's pretty much what I try and do in those match ups. Though I don't push as early as some Terrans push like your example.

The state of TvZ is kinda sad right now. Lots of all ins from Terran w/ bunker rushes and 2 barracks before the second depot. Terrans are desperate. Foxer also encouraged it.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm trying to get qxc to release some TvZ replays packs in a thread on TL. Maybe he can give me insight.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Day9: tos and terran have to timing push zerg. Terran also have to timing push tos.

Agree or disagree?

I personally always lost to terrans that push early with 2 marine, 1 rauder timed with fast con shell in 1v1 maps as toss. So in that sense I do see terrans wining with timing pushes vs tos.


just watching this one now.


----------



## yks

which day9 is this?


----------



## DoomDash

211 I think.


----------



## burwij

http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2&round=2

GSL Finals VODs. They're all uploaded to the same filesharing site with a 10-minute limit between downloads, but they're all there. I'm glad I decided not to stay up until 8am


----------



## DoomDash

Question... why are FFA's so damn easy?


----------



## burwij

I'm sure the 5 Bronze guys you played with didn't think it was easy.

I want to know why there are achievements all the way up to 800 FFA wins. Who in their right mind would ever play that many FFA games?


----------



## DoomDash

Even the Diamonds in FFA's are awful. Yeah it will take me like 20 years to get 800 FFA wins. I did however get most of the achievements you could in them ( like ranked match achievements, kill 20 units with infested terrans, kill 5 units with one NP, ect ect ).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

and build a nexus/cc with NP


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey guys, instead of laddering, i got distracted by playing lots of 2v2's with my brother







something that i noticed though was on my screen, both the enemy's had to same colour whereas on my brothers they had different colours. Is this a bug or some kind of option in the settings i can't find? Its quite annoying when my brother would say somehting like, "attack the red guy", and i would reply "they're both red".









Matt


----------



## thiru

Click alt+F or one of those buttons right by the minimap while in game.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Sweet! I'l try that now, thanks man, +rep


----------



## Magus2727

Quick question, Does any one else get a messed up Mouse Pointer during SC2 or a permanent mouse pointer once the game exits? the only thing I can do is restart the computer... wondered if this may be a software or a hardware issue.

Thanks


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magus2727* 
Quick question, Does any one else get a messed up Mouse Pointer during SC2 or a permanent mouse pointer once the game exits? the only thing I can do is restart the computer... wondered if this may be a software or a hardware issue.

Thanks

Yeah I get it. It goes away after a long while, but it's really annoying. I think it's the ATI drivers.


----------



## Magus2727

Humm thought the 10.11 drivers had addressed them.... time to write an e-mail to ATi...

I left my computer over night and was still there when I woke up and I tried the logging out and back in (found on some other thread) but that still did not work... looks like the only other work around is making it so the graphics are not as good....
Thanks


----------



## cory1234

Broke the 2000 point milestone. It feels gooood.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Yeah I get the messed up moue cursor aswell. In fact im typing this with the messed up cursor lol.

Congratulations Cory!









Matt


----------



## DoomDash

I thought u meant 1v1.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I thought u meant 1v1.

Closin in on 1v1 also, but not too concerned since stats are being reset soon.


----------



## DoomDash

We should have time to hit 2000 pretty easy.


----------



## soul999

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02

how will this desktop do with sc2?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soul999*


http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02

how will this desktop do with sc2?


Why not just build your own? All the info you need for building your own is here, and everyone will help you. Plus you'll save money.


----------



## soul999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Why not just build your own? All the info you need for building your own is here, and everyone will help you. Plus you'll save money.


It's something I've never done before. If I buy it from the pros I know nothing will go wrong the last thing I wanna do is damage my computer.

anyhow how will this computer do with SC2 
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02


----------



## adalon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soul999*


http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02

how will this desktop do with sc2?


 You might be able to play with everything set to low. With the monitor having a native resolution of 1920x1080 that graphics card will disappoint.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soul999*


It's something I've never done before. If I buy it from the pros I know nothing will go wrong the last thing I wanna do is damage my computer.

anyhow how will this computer do with SC2 
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02


I would recommend building your own as well. Usually all of the parts you buy will have at least 3 years warranty, and it's really simple to do especially with the community here to help you.

If you don't have the time to build your own check out here:

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/C..._Configurator/

Your going to want a quad core Intel, and at least a 460 gtx to max SC2.

Quote:



We should have time to hit 2000 pretty easy.


I feel like I've gotten better..beating a few 2200-2500s, but really 2000 is the new 1500. I just don't have time for all those 1v1's. Everyone above me in my division has 3 times the number of games played.


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody know how to stop a marine/raven/banshee timing push as protoss? I didnt engage to attack because Terran was walled off with a bunker. At this point I knew he was up to something and sent my obs over there but it got picked off with raven + marine. I was able to get my second obs but my zealot/stalker/sentry army couldnt stop it. I dont think making more stalkers is the answer. Perhaps I could have got a stargate to make phoenix/void rays. I should have known for a fact he was going banhsees when I saw that raven.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Anybody know how to stop a marine/raven/banshee timing push as protoss? I didnt engage to attack because Terran was walled off with a bunker. At this point I knew he was up to something and sent my obs over there but it got picked off with raven + marine. I was able to get my second obs but my zealot/stalker/sentry army couldnt stop it. I dont think making more stalkers is the answer. Perhaps I could have got a stargate to make phoenix/void rays. I should have known for a fact he was going banhsees when I saw that raven.


I don't really know how to explain beating this, besides maybe target the PDD with sentries. Honestly I've tried this built at least 10 times and it have never once worked for me.


----------



## ThumperSD

I took down the PDDs but his marine/banshees still owned me. A scan took out my obs.

What did your opponents do to stop this?


----------



## DoomDash

I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure their armies were just much bigger than mine since I had to tech so hard.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Question... why are FFA's so damn easy?


well, having never played one, can't really tell you, however, I can only assume it's because your opponent attack each other, so, less likely to gang up on you









Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2&round=2

GSL Finals VODs. They're all uploaded to the same filesharing site with a 10-minute limit between downloads, but they're all there. I'm glad I decided not to stay up until 8am










Thanks for links. They are .tgz format though, good program to unzip? I think 7-zip could unzip the file, but, curious if there are any you guys recommend









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm trying to get qxc to release some TvZ replays packs in a thread on TL. Maybe he can give me insight.


GL, link?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, that's pretty much what I try and do in those match ups. Though I don't push as early as some Terrans push like your example.

The state of TvZ is kinda sad right now. Lots of all ins from Terran w/ bunker rushes and 2 barracks before the second depot. Terrans are desperate. Foxer also encouraged it.


2 rax is pretty popular. I blame foxer for the new idea that mass marines is good especially against zerg(banes), but, really, I doubt that its that Terrans are desperate, it's more than they are in the mindset that terran is now UP and zerg is OP, so, they try to cheese and do quick attacks to get ahead/win game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Broke the 2000 point milestone. It feels gooood.


Congrats, although reading later on, shows that it's the 2vs2 and not 1vs1


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


GL, link?

2 rax is pretty popular. I blame foxer for the new idea that mass marines is good especially against zerg(banes), but, really, I doubt that its that Terrans are desperate, it's more than they are in the mindset that terran is now UP and zerg is OP, so, they try to cheese and do quick attacks to get ahead/win game










qxc never responded.

Yeah I agree with that statement. They just want to end it early because they are afraid of late game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


qxc never responded.

Yeah I agree with that statement. They just want to end it early because they are afraid of late game.


Never know, maybe he'll respond, maybe not, either way, practice is your best defense.

Well, if it makes any Ts feel better, I barely use ultras and BLs(once ever)







, even after the game has been going for 25-30 minutes, I rarely get ultras and BLs, but, I plan to start investing money into them especially BLs. I would've taken that game(the one I mentioned recently against a P) with 10 BLs or so and some slings


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soul999*


http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b18c912e7aen02

how will this desktop do with sc2?


You don't want that for gaming because it has integrated graphics (Radeon HD 4200). Building your own is easily the best way to go, but if you are 100% against it, then you will have a hard time finding a decent gaming system with monitor for under $1000.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Never know, maybe he'll respond, maybe not, either way, practice is your best defense.

Well, if it makes any Ts feel better, I barely use ultras and BLs(once ever)







, even after the game has been going for 25-30 minutes, I rarely get ultras and BLs, but, I plan to start investing money into them especially BLs. I would've taken that game(the one I mentioned recently against a P) with 10 BLs or so and some slings










From my personal experience, 9 times out of 10 it's better to go Ultras over broodlords. Try both, but I really think Ultras are better and don't really have an easy counter.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


From my personal experience, 9 times out of 10 it's better to go Ultras over broodlords. Try both, but I really think Ultras are better and don't really have an easy counter.


While I agree that ultras are great units, my opponent in that game had NO air units, so, with 10 BLs blocking his units movement along with my slings attacking from the back, I would've been able to easily take down his army due to range and choke among other things







I think my major complaint about tier 3 zerg units is that they only attack ground, I would've liked a unit that attacks both(think bc or carrier)


----------



## Darkknight512

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I would recommend building your own as well. Usually all of the parts you buy will have at least 3 years warranty, and it's really simple to do especially with the community here to help you.

If you don't have the time to build your own check out here:

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/C..._Configurator/

Your going to want a quad core Intel, and at least a 460 gtx to max SC2.


You only need a fast dual core to max SC2, the game is only double threaded, at most you would *need* triple core. GTX 460 is kinda overkill for 1920x1080 as well.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkknight512*


You only need a fast dual core to max SC2, the game is only double threaded, at most you would *need* triple core. GTX 460 is kinda overkill for 1920x1080 as well.


It can use 3 cores. By your logic at most you would need a quad core.


----------



## BigFan

Having just watched the first game of the finals, I gotta say that I thought what the commentators said was interesting:
They talked about expanding at 15 for zerg and how it's a very risky move to do especially in the Korean ladder and in the first game, a 2 rax push with scvs and using mules to keep eco going was too much for Nestea to handle, can't wait to see other matches, although, I do wanna see some nestea matches first, I mean 2-0'd everyone and only lost one game to SlayersBoxer, must mean he's doing something right







Hopefully, FD starts deciding to delay fast exp or at least gets pool such that its 15 pool 14 hatch so that he can hold off early pushes and doesn't lose out as early


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkknight512*


You only need a fast dual core to max SC2, the game is only double threaded, at most you would *need* triple core. GTX 460 is kinda overkill for 1920x1080 as well.


I don't think a 460gtx is overkill. Check out Tom's hardware review where they display a very large amount of objects on the screen.

I know the game is only dual threaded, but for future proof sake with his budget it would be foolish to go with a dual core.


----------



## turbonerds

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I took down the PDDs but his marine/banshees still owned me. A scan took out my obs.

What did your opponents do to stop this?


be aggressive with a few stalkers and force that PPD, and push out this is hard to do.

or sit in your base cannon up and tech to fast chargelots/storm, storm/feedback rapes rines and banshee


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbonerds*


be aggressive with a few stalkers and force that PPD, and push out this is hard to do.

or sit in your base cannon up and tech to fast chargelots/storm, storm/feedback rapes rines and banshee


Building cannons usually isn't a good idea. Your just giving your opponent map control by doing this, and tanks will roll you eventually.

I think the best way to stop that push would be to scout as often as possible, and force early pressure. You would be surprised what a single stalker can do if you chrono boost it. A good 3 warpgate rush can break many a terran; especially if they try to tech to banshee/raven.


----------



## brandontaz2k2

Congrats cory1234, you are now 1337.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Having just watched the first game of the finals, I gotta say that I thought what the commentators said was interesting:
They talked about expanding at 15 for zerg and how it's a very risky move to do especially in the Korean ladder and in the first game, a 2 rax push with scvs and using mules to keep eco going was too much for Nestea to handle, can't wait to see other matches, although, I do wanna see some nestea matches first, I mean 2-0'd everyone and only lost one game to SlayersBoxer, must mean he's doing something right







Hopefully, FD starts deciding to delay fast exp or at least gets pool such that its 15 pool 14 hatch so that he can hold off early pushes and doesn't lose out as early










He didn't lose any games to real boxer.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I don't think a 460gtx is overkill. Check out Tom's hardware review where they display a very large amount of objects on the screen.

I know the game is only dual threaded, but for future proof sake with his budget it would be foolish to go with a dual core.


It uses 3 cores.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...rcraft-2-use/2


----------



## turbonerds

LoL, as a terran player myself, i find that there is *NO WAY* to beat a good zerg late game. The matchup consits of

Me turtling in my base doing a couple of harass/timing push

hellions - 2 roach stops this or queen blocking your ramp
banshee - maybe i'm doing this wrong but everytime i go for banshee i only kill 3-2 drones for 200 gas....
drops - LOL? ya right overlords all over the map/creep/ and mutas flying gaining map control.. its hard to do a drop nowadays...

Timing pushs works the best for me so far.. pushing out with mass rines with 2-1 tanks works but a ****load of banelings and sling own this...

now if i don't do anything to the zerg and let him do whatever he wants he can outdrone me by 20-30 drones.. its ****in stupid.

i just don't know how to deal with this match up anymore


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brandontaz2k2*


Congrats cory1234, you are now 1337.


Haha thank you.

Quote:



It uses 3 cores.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...rcraft-2-use/2


That could be contributed to the fact that the game is using both cores, and performance takes a slight hit due to background applications. A 5% difference doesn't mean it's using 3 cores to me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbonerds*


LoL, as a terran player myself, i find that there is *NO WAY* to beat a good zerg late game. The matchup consits of

Me turtling in my base doing a couple of harass/timing push

hellions - 2 roach stops this or queen blocking your ramp
banshee - maybe i'm doing this wrong but everytime i go for banshee i only kill 3-2 drones for 200 gas....
drops - LOL? ya right overlords all over the map/creep/ and mutas flying gaining map control.. its hard to do a drop nowadays...

Timing pushs works the best for me so far.. pushing out with mass rines with 2-1 tanks works but a ****load of banelings and sling own this...

now if i don't do anything to the zerg and let him do whatever he wants he can outdrone me by 20-30 drones.. its ****in stupid.

i just don't know how to deal with this match up anymore


Yeah TvZ is very broken right now. It's not that Zerg is IMBA, it's just that Terran late game sucks ass.

Also, BigFan for GSL finals:

They talk about how hatch first is dangerous again, we'll that's only a little bit true. Look at game 7, Boxer, the best marine micro currently, does an all in rush with marines, and 15+ SCV's. Close positions on metal, against hatch first with no lings at the time, and STILL loses. Yeah he lost game one to the same thing, but the fact that you can hold an all in like that at all and still be able to get away with hatch first 50% of the time is ridiculous. Not only that, but Foxer failed quite a few attempts at preventing that, and so did Boxer, who got raped. Safe to say that hatch first is almost always ideal for Zerg, and over all pretty safe.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah TvZ is very broken right now. It's not that Zerg is IMBA, it's just that Terran late game sucks ass.

Also, BigFan for GSL finals:

They talk about how hatch first is dangerous again, we'll that's only a little bit true. Look at game 7, Boxer, the best marine micro currently, does an all in rush with marines, and 15+ SCV's. Close positions on metal, against hatch first with no lings at the time, and STILL loses. Yeah he lost game one to the same thing, but the fact that you can hold an all in like that at all and still be able to get away with hatch first 50% of the time is ridiculous. Not only that, but Foxer failed quite a few attempts at preventing that, and so did Boxer, who got raped. Safe to say that hatch first is almost always ideal for Zerg, and over all pretty safe.


I hear tank/thor combos mess up ultras, and vikings aren't too bad for broodlords







. Of course if the zerg has half of the map and your on 3 base, then your screwed haha.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbonerds*


be aggressive with a few stalkers and force that PPD, and push out this is hard to do.

or sit in your base cannon up and tech to fast chargelots/storm, storm/feedback rapes rines and banshee


A banshee/marine/raven timing push comes far before storm + energy researches are ready. It would set me back on zealot/stalker/sentry and there would be absolutely no way I can defend that. I already had charge but it did not help as the banshees killed them all. I made a mistake by investing in charge in this game. I also already had my expo up at the time. Feedback would have worked well but really that's a lot of teching when I could be making more pure units.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Building cannons usually isn't a good idea. Your just giving your opponent map control by doing this, and tanks will roll you eventually.

I think the best way to stop that push would be to scout as often as possible, and force early pressure. You would be surprised what a single stalker can do if you chrono boost it. A good 3 warpgate rush can break many a terran; especially if they try to tech to banshee/raven.


I was very close to attacking early but he had his bunker behind his wall with a couple SCVs around ready for repair which made me pull back. I really dont know if I would have won by applying pressure like this. Sure it would slow down his banshee tech but I would lose a lot of units as well.

One thing I regret not doing was getting void rays in that game (steppes of war) so I can charge up on the destructible rock and attack his wall with it considering the choke is next to the rock. Great map for such strategy if your opponent is walling at choke. Very sure I would have won the game had I went this route.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I hear tank/thor combos mess up ultras, and vikings aren't too bad for broodlords







. Of course if the zerg has half of the map and your on 3 base, then your screwed haha.


I pretty much tank thor with some bio every game.. and no, not really vs ultras







. They are OK , but really all Z needs to do is exchange, and the macro mechanics of Z will always favor Z.

I rarely see broodlords. They don't scare me that much anyway. Ultras/Banes/Roach/Slings, that's SCARY.

Plus yeah, mech is immobile as ****.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I hear tank/thor combos mess up ultras, and vikings aren't too bad for broodlords







. Of course if the zerg has half of the map and your on 3 base, then your screwed haha.


Or:

Day9 has a theory where if you're being controlled by zerg mobile forces and zerg is expanding everywhere, one thing you can do is turtle, get to max asap, and then count on your maxxed terran or toss army is stronger than zerg's maxed army. Then go for the jugular right after.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Or:

Day9 has a theory where if you're being controlled by zerg mobile forces and zerg is expanding everywhere, one thing you can do is turtle, get to max asap, and then count on your maxxed terran or toss army is stronger than zerg's maxed army. Then go for the jugular right after.


I wish that were true. But at least currently a 200/200 Z army is pretty comparable to a 200/200 T army ( Can't speak on behalf of P ). I'm not saying its impossible to win, but if you are turtling, he is probably on more bases, and again, he can just rebuild that army in a matter of seconds compared to Terran.


----------



## xHassassin

Apparently being in silver 2v2 means you get faced against platinum/diamond opponents and dont get promoted when you beat them.

.________________________________.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He didn't lose any games to real boxer.

It uses 3 cores.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...rcraft-2-use/2


huh, I thought I heard that he lost one when they were talking about each player and their games









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Or:

Day9 has a theory where if you're being controlled by zerg mobile forces and zerg is expanding everywhere, one thing you can do is turtle, get to max asap, and then count on your maxxed terran or toss army is stronger than zerg's maxed army. Then go for the jugular right after.


I've seen this work a lot. I've had T opponents turtle, mass an army then attack. The P game that I talked about, when i was watching the replay, he had a 198/200 army against my measly 70-80 or so due to losing my units to constantly harassing him. Having said that, in this case, I didn't have 200, but, either way, I believe that he would've won UNLESS I had a decent number of BLs to box his forces









As for zerg re-building in seconds, well, if you have the hatcheries and the resources, yes, it's possible, since, you'll have a decent surplus of minerals and gas but if the opponent is able to get some drop as you engage forces, he'll get the upper hand if he takes out a couple of structures or the hive or in that case, I would just go mass slings for the finish


----------



## vdek

So have any of you guys seen the Blizzcon marine avatar? It's pretty sweet, I'm pleased that I got the blizzcon virtual tickets earlier







Next year I'm going to try to make it to Blizzcon for real though.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


So have any of you guys seen the Blizzcon marine avatar? It's pretty sweet, I'm pleased that I got the blizzcon virtual tickets earlier







Next year I'm going to try to make it to Blizzcon for real though.


That's soooo 3 weeks ago









You only needed a virtual ticket to get that avatar? I thought you had to attend Blizzcon to get it.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't even get that avatar. What the hell is that?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
So have any of you guys seen the Blizzcon marine avatar? It's pretty sweet, I'm pleased that I got the blizzcon virtual tickets earlier







Next year I'm going to try to make it to Blizzcon for real though.

Look at post #5331









Anyone up for a game? Going to be on for a bit


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't even get that avatar. What the hell is that?

Tchernobyl mentioned that its a character from WOW, but, can't recall name


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Look at post #5331









Anyone up for a game? Going to be on for a bit









You should have asked this an hour ago. I was able to play 3 custom games with my zerg practice partner. I need more practice vs zerg.

Ive been playing pretty slow the last 4 days for some reason, especially my macro. Still enough to beat some plat/diamond players but not even close to my A game. I feel like I need to be in the right state of mind to be playing my best. Anybody else feel this way? I wish I can always be on my A game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You should have asked this an hour ago. I was able to play 3 custom games with my zerg practice partner. I need more practice vs zerg.

Ive been playing pretty slow the last 4 days for some reason, especially my macro. Still enough to beat some plat/diamond players but not even close to my A game. I feel like I need to be in the right state of mind to be playing my best. Anybody else feel this way? I wish I can always be on my A game

An hour ago, I had just finished a paper and was relaxing







I feel the same way as well. If I really want to play a game, chances are I'll win it, otherwise, it's really hard to tell, as in I have a hard time forcing myself to play if I don't feel like it















If you are interested in some more practice, I have you already added as Thumper








If anyone else is interested in playing some customs, maybe that sc1 map, post now or be doomed to miss out on some fun


----------



## bulmung

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't even get that avatar. What the hell is that?

If you are referring to cory1234's avatar its a murloc marine. It was given out to people who went to blizzcon 2010 or ordered it on ppv.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bulmung* 
If you are referring to cory1234's avatar its a murloc marine. It was given out to people who went to blizzcon 2010 or ordered it on ppv.

I think it's more along the lines of what is a murloc?







I do remember here that name a lot when I played wc3, but, can't recall what it was.


----------



## DoomDash

Oh, WoW, yawn.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Oh, WoW, yawn.

lol, doubt you've ever played it though









Here is the game that I was talking about against that protoss who fast exp:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...caverns#rd:dna

I should have probably done the following:
- Macro hard once harassing with roaches and mutas failed
- Microing was pretty bad on my part
- Research upgrades which I didn't
- Expand much faster to third
- Better map control(prevent third base)
- Tech up(BLs would've helped plenty and maybe even won game?)
- Spawn larvae and spread creep
- Other things that I can't think of









Now consider this game against a T on Scrap station, third game that day, definitely a huge difference in how I played as well: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Look at post #5331









Anyone up for a game? Going to be on for a bit









This thread has so many posts, it's difficult to keep up. I only got the email for the avatar about 5 days ago though. My apologies otherwise.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You should have asked this an hour ago. I was able to play 3 custom games with my zerg practice partner. I need more practice vs zerg.

Ive been playing pretty slow the last 4 days for some reason, especially my macro. Still enough to beat some plat/diamond players but not even close to my A game. I feel like I need to be in the right state of mind to be playing my best. Anybody else feel this way? I wish I can always be on my A game

I get that feeling, goes in cycles, sometimes I'm playing really good and I go for 10 game + win streaks, other times I play really bad and lose 5-6 games in a row... Although I haven't been playing enough 1v1 to matter.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
This thread has so many posts, it's difficult to keep up. My apologies otherwise.

I get that feeling, goes in cycles, sometimes I'm playing really good and I go for 10 game + win streaks, other times I play really bad and lose 5-6 games in a row... Although I haven't been playing enough 1v1 to matter.

Blame doom for that, he's the current post leader, lol. I've only got half of his posts









I've had that as well, those 5-6 game losses are the worst though, really demotivate you as well, but, you gotta keep on going


----------



## Twistacles

Just an update, the GSL season 3 qualifiers are going on right now.
Currently, LiquidJinro and LiquidHayPro are one victory away from qualifying for ro64.


----------



## ThumperSD

SCA is getting spammed hard again lol


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
I get that feeling, goes in cycles, sometimes I'm playing really good and I go for 10 game + win streaks, other times I play really bad and lose 5-6 games in a row... Although I haven't been playing enough 1v1 to matter.

Exactly. Whenever I am doing good, I tend to do well the whole day. If I am bad however, Im pretty much playing slowly the whole day.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Just an update, the GSL season 3 qualifiers are going on right now.
Currently, LiquidJinro and LiquidHayPro are one victory away from qualifying for ro64.

Nice, thanks for info, +REP


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Just an update, the GSL season 3 qualifiers are going on right now.
Currently, LiquidJinro and LiquidHayPro are one victory away from qualifying for ro64.

Cool.

and yeah I noticed SCArena getting owned...again.


----------



## bulmung

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I think it's more along the lines of what is a murloc?







I do remember here that name a lot when I played wc3, but, can't recall what it was.

A murloc is a dumb annoying creature in WoW. It really doesn't do anything but make an annoying noise while you fight it and they are really low level. Why the murloc caught on with the fan base, I dont really know. Back on topic does anyone know when the ladder resets?


----------



## Tchernobyl

You Tube





short silly murloc PSA~


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bulmung* 
Back on topic does anyone know when the ladder resets?

If they handle SC2 seasons anything like WoW arena seasons, they'll give us a 2+ week notice before they reset everything. I don't know if there will be any end-of-season incentives (portraits or something?), but my guess is they'll offer up something to encourage people to frag out before everything resets.

I haven't seen or heard anything from Blizzard since they mentioned it during one of the Blizzcon panels. I'd guess January, since Cataclysm releases in early December and holidays cover the second half of the month. A reset in January conveniently gives all of the people who grab SC2 for Christmas a shot at a fresh ladder. Again, just an educated guess.


----------



## l337sft

People add me, im always up all night playing starcraft, but i dont wanna play by myself.

player code: 801
Name: Leetums


----------



## yks

ITR and JangMinChul qualified.

So did Haypro and [email protected][email protected]! After failing twice, they finally did it~!! Hopefully HuK and Ret and Naz can do it too

BIGGEST UPSET EVER


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



NaDa is OUT OF THE TOURNAMENT


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
ITR and JangMinChul qualified.

So did Haypro and [email protected][email protected]! After failing twice, they finally did it~!! Hopefully HuK and Ret and Naz can do it too

Nice


----------



## yks

^ read the edit.


----------



## Realcacheese

Nada didn't qualify for GSL3.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

He's still stuck on bw strat.


----------



## DoomDash

when does slayers_boxer play?


----------



## yks

Inca does NOT qualify. What. The. Heck. Protoss' chances are now even slimmer.

WC3's Moon does qualify.


----------



## DoomDash

Am I reading this right? iNControl and Artosis playing today as well ?


----------



## dezshiz

Where to watch? D:
or is it not streamed?


----------



## DoomDash

Not streamed, though Artosis usually films some qualifiers and puts them on his youtube:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169091


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah artosis and incontrol are both there playing.


----------



## DoomDash

iNControl does not make it







.


----------



## DoomDash

I just looked it up, I'm the highest rated player with the word Doom in my name on all of battle.net worldwide







. MWHAHAHAH.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcacheese* 
Nada didn't qualify for GSL3.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Inca does NOT qualify. What. The. Heck. Protoss' chances are now even slimmer.
WC3's Moon does qualify.

How bizzare


----------



## durch

Quick question (too lazy to experiment), can banelings deal damage to units that are immobilized from fungal growth?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *durch* 
Quick question (too lazy to experiment), can banelings deal damage to units that are immobilized from fungal growth?

Yes


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *durch* 
Quick question (too lazy to experiment), can banelings deal damage to units that are immobilized from fungal growth?

Yes, FG's main purpose is to prevent said units from kiting them thus making it easier for banes to get a hit, of course, using slings to surround works just as well


----------



## durch

Yea I've pretty much been using it as an either or decision, either banelings or fungal growth, not sure why I haven't tried them together yet.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Okay, so I haven't read through this whole thing yet, but an earlier post mentions a ladder reset? I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, though. Would kind of be nice, because I really botched my first 30 games (went 4 wins 30 losses in the beginning). I'm finally positive now, but still stuck in Bronze. Would be nice to get a fresh start.

Also, subbed to an awesome thread.
SC2:RaptorJezus (forget code off the top of my head).
Broze (lol) Protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *durch* 
Yea I've pretty much been using it as an either or decision, either banelings or fungal growth, not sure why I haven't tried them together yet.

slings+blings devastate MMM which is where I find their greatest use, not the greatest against P. I rarely use infestors and FG myself since I tech up to lair, get mutas and win or lose the game from there, but, I think FG is great especially when most units clump together(think MM, some zealot+stalkers, etc....)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raptor_Jesus* 
Okay, so I haven't read through this whole thing yet, but an earlier post mentions a ladder reset? I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, though. Would kind of be nice, because I really botched my first 30 games (went 4 wins 30 losses in the beginning). I'm finally positive now, but still stuck in Bronze. Would be nice to get a fresh start.

Also, subbed to an awesome thread.
SC2:RaptorJezus (forget code off the top of my head).
Broze (lol) Protoss.

Yes, a radder reset is in order. Basically, they'll wipe away your points, however, your MMR stays the same. You play one placement match, mostly to check activity and you'll likely be placed back in the same league(bronze in your case), however, considering you've only played 60 or so games based on what you mentioned here, it's likely if you keep winning, you'll play against silver and be promoted, just keep at it







I would add your name to the sc2 OCN list that thiru has in his sig and I think he has a link in the OP


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

No I'm up to 120-130 games. I forget off the top of my head, though.


----------



## asus1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, a radder reset is in order. Basically, they'll wipe away your points, however, your MMR stays the same. You play one placement match, mostly to check activity and you'll likely be placed back in the same league(bronze in your case), however, considering you've only played 60 or so games based on what you mentioned here, it's likely if you keep winning, you'll play against silver and be promoted, just keep at it







I would add your name to the sc2 OCN list that thiru has in his sig and I think he has a link in the OP










nicely put. Basically if your skill isnt what your league dictates, it is easy to move up lower rank to higher.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtosisTV#p/u/4/8CksOkLGNsk

Artosis interviews are up. Lots of them.

Hah @ the 1100 Terran entering... dammit.

I recommend the incontrol interviewing artosis one lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Also 56 min interview with TLO:
http://tv.esl.eu/de/program/view/39967


----------



## yks

DUDUDUDUDUDE. so incontrol, torch, artosis AND kiwikaki don't qualify. 4 foreigners out.

but thats not the dude part. MOTHER FREAKING SANG-HO doesn't qualify~!!!

First Inca, now Sang Ho. The Protoss Hope now lies in only Tester and Genius (sorry HuK).


----------



## turbocharged

How often is blizzard planning on doing resets once they start?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


How often is blizzard planning on doing resets once they start?


Good question, my guess is everyone couple of month(maybe 6 or so)


----------



## DoomDash

It will be yearly from my understanding. 6 months would be LAME.


----------



## banded1

could you guys have a look at these vids? i'd like some c&c

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

im still in novice league and i know im not that great. i never played SC or BW so i need some tips lol. i've pretty much learned everything on my own


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It will be yearly from my understanding. 6 months would be LAME.


Well, did they mention yearly? :/ Reason I said 6 months or so is because we are likely going to have the ladder reset with the next big patch in Dec which would be about 6 months from release(July)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


could you guys have a look at these vids? i'd like some c&c

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

im still in novice league and i know im not that great. i never played SC or BW so i need some tips lol. i've pretty much learned everything on my own


I'll take a look in a bit, since, I'm not on my rig ATM


----------



## banded1

thanks

btw those arent my worst games or anything, i just chose the two most recent

TBH, with the way i play, those are probably two of my better games


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


could you guys have a look at these vids? i'd like some c&c

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

im still in novice league and i know im not that great. i never played SC or BW so i need some tips lol. i've pretty much learned everything on my own


You should make an OC at 15 so that you get a nice boost on your economy early on. When you dropped off your MM's and took out his SCV's you should of pulled out of there as soon as you saw his force coming at you instead of facing him head on which cost you a few MM's. You should try to have full control of the xel naga towers throughout the game, for about half the game nobody was on any of the xel naga's. You could of easily of wiped out his third expo when you occupied the xel naga with your whole army. You also should of expoed a little earlier. Just my 2 cents.

You played pretty damn good though, nice worker production for the most part. Are you looking for someone to play practice games with?


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan you should put a baneling in your avatar because every time we argue you could just use it to win every time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


thanks

btw those arent my worst games or anything, i just chose the two most recent

TBH, with the way i play, those are probably two of my better games










np, you mentioned novice league as in practice league or do you mean the bronze league?









Some general tips I can give you for T are:
- Try not to get supply blocked
- Getting 3 rax, 2 with tech lab, one with reactor is a solid start
- Scout a lot, using scv at start of game followed by possibly scans.
- Make sure to keep making SCVs
- Make sure to get concussive shell and stim. 
- Get marine shields or whatever its called if you plan to use them a lot.

There are many more but these ones are what I can think of ATM


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan you should put a baneling in your avatar because every time we argue you could just use it to win every time.











Seriously though, banes can be stopped, you either need to have amazing micro like foxer or for those who don't which is >99% of people playing SC2 as T, space your units out a bit, put thors, marauders, etc.... at front to absorb damage, kite them a bit, etc....







I'll be up for trying this, as in I play T and you play Z and test my points


----------



## banded1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


You should make an OC at 15 so that you get a nice boost on your economy early on. When you dropped off your MM's and took out his SCV's you should of pulled out of there as soon as you saw his force coming at you instead of facing him head on which cost you a few MM's. You should try to have full control of the xel naga towers throughout the game, for about half the game nobody was on any of the xel naga's. You could of easily of wiped out his third expo when you occupied the xel naga with your whole army. You also should of expoed a little earlier. Just my 2 cents.

You played pretty damn good though, nice worker production for the most part. Are you looking for someone to play practice games with?



Having someone to practice with would be cool

and @ bigfan, yea novice league, its hard to scout when everyone has rock to block their base

thanks for the tips








if anyones on, im on now. banded. 526 is the code


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*










Seriously though, banes can be stopped, you either need to have amazing micro like foxer or for those who don't which is >99% of people playing SC2 as T, space your units out a bit, put thors, marauders, etc.... at front to absorb damage, kite them a bit, etc....







I'll be up for trying this, as in I play T and you play Z and test my points










I do space my units out, I do try to kite, I do put my Marauders in front, and banes are still ******ed. It doesn't matter. Of course they are beatable, they are just much easier to use and that's always been my point.

I'm not really worried about it, I can just out play my fellow Zergs instead.


----------



## yks

Hey, BigFan, how come you never used Banes against me when we played yesterday?

;]


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Hey, BigFan, how come you never used Banes against me when we played yesterday?

;]


He feels guilty.... plus you play Protoss.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


Having someone to practice with would be cool

and @ bigfan, yea novice league, its hard to scout when everyone has rock to block their base

thanks for the tips








if anyones on, im on now. banded. 526 is the code


You should skip practice league.

The game speed is played on Normal, so once you get out, you'll be playing on Faster. Which really is a change of pace.


----------



## DoomDash

yks get on and lets play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Hey, BigFan, how come you never used Banes against me when we played yesterday?

;]



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He feels guilty.... plus you play Protoss.


Well, as doom mentioned, banes aren't as good against P as T due to T's lower hp, but, next time we play, I'll make sure to use them just to satisfy your demand







Not sure what the guilty comment was about though









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You should skip practice league.

The game speed is played on Normal, so once you get out, you'll be playing on Faster. Which really is a change of pace.


Agreed, I went from practice to the normal league and was blown away in my first game at the difference in speed, love that its much faster. Don't worry about points and all, you can always play custom games or practice with friends, etc.... after you get a chance to play against other players









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


yks get on and lets play.


I would be interested in a game if you wanna play as well









Edit: Mean guilty that I didn't use them?


----------



## banded1

its cool, im used to faster, i practice on faster


----------



## EmMure

cool so im into the top 30 for the pny tourney lol my opponent didnt log on LOL


----------



## burwij

^ lol

They used a pretty weird schedule for the tourney: Tuesday/Thursday/Friday followed by Monday/Tuesday. I can see why people would get confused.


----------



## EmMure

so my recent opponent jsut messaged me in the pny site saying he reported me for improper results when he wasnt even on so i told him ill gladly play the match but he was not on and i was


----------



## turbocharged

Are there tournaments for us lowly bronze level players?


----------



## EmMure

i am a bronze lvl player lol,and im offically outta the pny tourney just lost in the fourth round still finshed top 70 thou outta 510


----------



## EmMure

looks like i was in 6th place going into round 5 and not im done i think ill finsh like 11th or something


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i am a bronze lvl player lol,and im offically outta the pny tourney just lost in the fourth round still finshed top 70 thou outta 510


Oh nice. How do you get started doing tournaments?


----------



## thiru

Go on Teamliquid and check the tournament tracker. Look for stuff that's open and free.


----------



## Twistacles

Haypro and Jinro did qualify yesterday, but Nada and Ensnare didn't!

Liquid'Ret just smashed his round 2 opponent. Huk hasn't started yet.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


looks like i was in 6th place going into round 5 and not im done i think ill finsh like 11th or something


Drewbie is definitely going to win that tourney







.

I want GSL 3 to start now, and I want it to be free.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Drewbie is definitely going to win that tourney







.

I want GSL 3 to start now, and I want it to be free.


... it is free..


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


... it is free..


I mean't the VOD's. I will not ever get up at 4am to watch some Starcraft lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I mean't the VOD's. I will not ever get up at 4am to watch some Starcraft lol.

Get up at 4 am? How about stay up till 7 am every day







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I mean't the VOD's. I will not ever get up at 4am to watch some Starcraft lol.

There are re streams everywhere, you just got to wait a day or two.
Or you can wait for Blizzard to upload them and distribute them behind Gomtv's back


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Get up at 4 am? How about stay up till 7 am every day







.

Does not comply, building in progress








Not a good idea to stay up till 7, much better to sleep and wake up at 7 to watch them









Anyone up for a game or two? Need to work on my macro


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Anyone up for a game or two? Need to work on my macro


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 

























Working on macro was always my goal, but, if I see a threat such as 4 stalkers coming with only 5 zlings to defend, then I focus on some defense first







I also usually do better when I'm totally focused in a game as in I don't communicate much other than the usual hello, gl hf and gg


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 








Working on macro was always my goal, but, if I see a threat such as 4 stalkers coming with only 5 zlings to defend, then I focus on some defense first









Remember, you are supposed to REACT. You should have had more lings or warnings in front of yks's base so you had time to know when to produce roaches. But yeah work on always spending, always using your larva, and building units when you need to only ( at least early ). That's the best advice you will hear as a Z player.

Remember before he moved out to do the same kind of attacks to me, I had 0 roaches even made, and I held them off easy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Remember, you are supposed to REACT. You should have had more lings or warnings in front of yks's base so you had time to know when to produce roaches. But yeah work on always spending, always using your larva, and building units when you need to only ( at least early ). That's the best advice you will hear as a Z player.

Remember before he moved out to do the same kind of attacks to me, I had 0 roaches even made, and I held them off easy.

yes indeed, but, you also have the experience which I lack especially at the higher levels of play







I think I get my warren too late as well which is why I struggled with his first attack and didn't recover too well.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
yes indeed, but, you also have the experience which I lack especially at the higher levels of play







I think I get my warren too late as well which is why I struggled with his first attack and didn't recover too well.

Implying 1800 is high level


----------



## yks

his 1800 diamond is a higher level of play compared to BigFan's Silver.


----------



## yks

BigFan, if you find a practice partner, I'll obs this time.


----------



## Twistacles

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=167992

For all the toss out there struggling with muta-ling.


----------



## ThumperSD

Next week is my Fall break so Im going to be playing a lot. Plus got my sub and headphones coming soon as well. FM social L


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
Implying 1800 is high level

Well, as yks mentioned, I'm only in silver and so I consider anyone in diamond(at least 1500+) high level. They might not be pros, but, they have their macro down well, know how to react to different builds as well as having some good micro.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
BigFan, if you find a practice partner, I'll obs this time.

Thanks, but, couldn't find anyone and decided to call it a night. Those 3 games we had were interesting. I think that as soon as I iron out my problems(getting warren up faster, macroing harder at start, expanding to third base and teching up since I usually rarely tech to hive for BLs and ultras), then I'll be able to put some really pressure and likely win some of our matches







Of course, easier said than done but I'm pretty confident that I'm have my macro fixed in no time, since, it's a matter of scouting and reacting appropriately to deal with the magnitude of incoming attack


----------



## ThumperSD

I can do a quick game if you want


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I can do a quick game if you want

Unfortunately, I'm going to sleep in <5 min, but, I'll be interested in some tommorrow for sure, you can never have enough practice


----------



## ThumperSD

Probably wont be able to play until Wednesday. I have an exam I have to study for tomorrow.


----------



## yks

Loner and Luffy are out! Dub Tee Eff!

Ret and Sen are in! zOMG!

Obviously, NesTea and FruitDealer made it.

HuK and Idra are currently playing.

Edit: Idra made it.

Edit 2: HuK did not qualify.


----------



## thiru

Laughable number of protoss made it so far.

And. So. Many. Banelings Zergs!


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turbocharged* 
Oh nice. How do you get started doing tournaments?

The easiest way is to look at the Tournament Tracker on TeamLiquid.net:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/

The tracker is updated pretty religiously and should have any entry requirements (league, invite-only, etc) and prizes (if any) listed. From what I've seen there are usually 1-2 Gold/Silver/Bronze tournaments each week - z33k.com specifically does one called "Sexy in Silver" every week that's only open to Silver and Bronze players.

90% of the tournaments listed are just for fun, so pick a couple and sign up.


----------



## yks

Noooooooooo

cella lost. What the ****


----------



## DoomDash

Any word on SlayerS_BoxeRs day to play?

Lol poor Protoss... GSL is T and Z again.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow this has to be the most intense base race I've had yet. Worst part was I was slightly favored so I would have lost a ton of points. TvZ. He is 2000+.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1136961


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1136961


So statistically it looks like:

P>T everywhere except Diamond level European Union players
P,T~=Z for the most part except Korean Diamond level who dominate as Zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

I found these two posts to make a lot of sense ( now Jinro is T, but the second guy is a high level P ):

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:*

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:06 coddan wrote:*
Protoss nerf incoming, lol
IMO protoss need certain things nerfed and then other areas really buffed, they are a bit too unbalanced (not imbalanced, just they seem to alternate between unbeatable and helpless).

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:40 Plexa wrote:*
Protoss is just entirely ****ed as race. Stalkers are pathetic, sentries are amazing, Colossus is insane, spamming templar is insane, mothersihp is laughable etc.

Jinro has it right when he says Protoss are unbalanced, the race is a complete shambles







and knowing Blizzard they'll nerf it without any buff.

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:37 Knutzi wrote:*

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote:*

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:23 darmousseh wrote:*

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:*

Quote:

*On November 16 2010 13:06 coddan wrote:*
Protoss nerf incoming, lol
IMO protoss need certain things nerfed and then other areas really buffed, they are a bit too unbalanced (not imbalanced, just they seem to alternate between unbeatable and helpless).
Expect a nerf to high templar and a buff to mid tier unit (like zealot or sentry). Personally i'm hoping for a removal of the charge ability on zealots and lowering the cost of zealot speed to 100/100 and lowering the cost of twilight council to 150/50. I think this would really help protoss in the mid-early game as they could get blink and zealot legs a lot faster to counter effect the stim and concussive shells upgrades.
Buffing the sentry would be the opposite of what I have in mind, I think thats one of the units they are far too reliant on and that, in some situations, is far too strong (its stupid that force field traps units now, instead of pushing them back).

However, you cant nerf it without buffing something else.

if your referring too the 1 unit stuck in between two ffs they fixed that last patch, tester mentioned it in a interview a while back
You can trap units in FF - the patched made it so that if you jammed units between two FFs then they still attacked, but now you can still trap units with them.


----------



## rhed5

My biggest criticism of protoss is that the gateway units are near useless. I remember playing protoss BW style when I first started and going 10-12- gateway with nothing else , then getting spanked even when I had map control and extra expos. I wouldn't mind a nerf on storm upgrade (starting mana) as long as gateway units are buffed.

I hate the concept of charge. Zealots aren't mobile even with the 200/200 (or was it 150/150?) upgrade plus they get slowed my marauders even during charge ***?


----------



## DoomDash

Chargelots > Marauders with FF







. Takes 15-16 shots to kill a Zealot with a Marauder?

But yeah I feel like the game in general is unbalanced like Jinro said. Maybe that's why I feel like Terran late game is so bad.


----------



## rhed5

And also what happened to carriers? Remember when they were the go-to unit when all hope was lost during BW? They went from iconic status to being a joke.

Motherships -> Other than being competlety useless, you don't even need to scout for them, if the game lags for 1-2 seconds, you immediately realize he's gone motherships. W.T.F?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
And also what happened to carriers? Remember when they were the go-to unit when all hope was lost during BW? They went from iconic status to being a joke.

Motherships -> Other than being competlety useless, you don't even need to scout for them, if the game lags for 1-2 seconds, you immediately realize he's gone motherships. W.T.F?

Yeah, I remember the days when seeing BC's and Carriers were just like "Oh ****". BC's are still good, but Carriers kinda suck.

Motherships are dumb, yes, but I do think that they have underrated defensive capabilities ( see kiwikaki use it on husky's channel. )


----------



## DoomDash

All Star games tournament:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169096

11/18 11:30KDT - (Z)FruitDealer vs (P)HongUnPrime
11/18 12:30KDT - (T)OptimusPrime vs (Z)oGsZenio
11/18 16:00KDT - (P)NEXGenius vs (Z)ZergBong
11/18 17:00KDT - (P)TesteR vs (T)oGsNada
11/19 11:30KDT - (T)HopeTorture vs (Z)oGsTheWinD
11/19 12:30KDT - (P)oGsInCa vs (T)MakaPrime
11/19 16:00KDT - (T)oGsEnsnare vs (Z)Kyrix
11/19 17:00KDT - (P)SangHo vs (T)BoxeR


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


All Star games tournament:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169096

11/18 11:30KDT - (Z)FruitDealer vs (P)HongUnPrime
11/18 12:30KDT - (T)OptimusPrime vs (Z)oGsZenio
11/18 16:00KDT - (P)NEXGenius vs (Z)ZergBong
11/18 17:00KDT - (P)TesteR vs (T)oGsNada
11/19 11:30KDT - (T)HopeTorture vs (Z)oGsTheWinD
11/19 12:30KDT - (P)oGsInCa vs (T)MakaPrime
11/19 16:00KDT - (T)oGsEnsnare vs (Z)Kyrix
11/19 17:00KDT - (P)SangHo vs (T)BoxeR



Converted to Eastern Std. Time:

11/17 9:30 PM EST - (Z)FruitDealer vs (P)HongUnPrime
11/17 10:30 PM EST - (T)OptimusPrime vs (Z)oGsZenio
11/18 2:00 AM EST - (P)NEXGenius vs (Z)ZergBong
11/18 3:00 AM EST - (P)TesteR vs (T)oGsNada
11/18 9:30 PM EST - (T)HopeTorture vs (Z)oGsTheWinD
11/18 10:30 PM EST - (P)oGsInCa vs (T)MakaPrime
11/19 2:00 AM EST - (T)oGsEnsnare vs (Z)Kyrix
11/19 3:00 AM EST - (P)SangHo vs (T)BoxeR


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wow this has to be the most intense base race I've had yet. Worst part was I was slightly favored so I would have lost a ton of points. TvZ. He is 2000+.




That was intense...talk about trading bases.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I disagree with gateway units are crap. They're underrated. They seem to be crap when they're faced with t1.5 units from other races but they are still very good, esp with sentries. The only issue is the high cost of charge and blink.


----------



## DoomDash

I like gateway units.


----------



## Grindhouse

I don't think they should nerf Protoss







It seems to me that it's the msot weak race really...

-Stalkers gets owned easily by MM.

-Colossus, yes they are good, but they are also VERY VERY vulnerable, they can't hit air but they can be attacked by *vikings*. And they are pretty expensive, they need the upgrade to increase their range, without that upgrade range they are kinda useless. Compare the Colossus to the Thors, Thors win every way, cost less, can attack air and cant be attacked by vikings/phoenix).

-Void, i think they are too powerfull in full power mode, but not enough powerfull in non power mode. Very weak VS *vikings* in non power mode.

-Carrier, not bad, not good. Easy to counter them with* vikings*. Not to mention that Yamato gun also owns carriers.

Well, i guess i hate Vikings, lol.

That's just my opinion, i'm no expert. (i'm platinum, 540 victory with protoss out of 1000 games, i play 4v4, yea i know that makes me a noob lol)


----------



## banded1

anyone going to be on later tonight?
i kinda want to practice lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*


I don't think they should nerf Protoss







It seems to me that it's the msot weak race really...

-Stalkers gets owned easily by MM.

-Colossus, yes they are good, but they are also VERY VERY vulnerable, they can't hit air but they can be attacked by *vikings*. And they are pretty expensive, they need the upgrade to increase their range, without that upgrade range they are kinda useless. Compare the Colossus to the Thors, Thors win every way, cost less, can attack air and cant be attacked by vikings/phoenix).

-Void, i think they are too powerfull in full power mode, but not enough powerfull in non power mode. Very weak VS *vikings* in non power mode.

-Carrier, not bad, not good. Easy to counter them with* vikings*. Not to mention that Yamato gun also owns carriers.

Well, i guess i hate Vikings, lol.

That's just my opinion, i'm no expert. (i'm platinum, 540 victory with protoss out of 1000 games, i play 4v4, yea i know that makes me a noob lol)


Colossus are way better than you are giving them credit. They are stupid good. I'm sorry but the fact that Vikings are the counter to Colossus is PLUS. You force me to get a unit that is pretty much useless, and worst of all instead of medivacs. Colossus is probably the best unit in the game. When the Thor can walk over cliffs and force air we can talk. Colossus need to be adjusted, and maybe other units buffed instead. Thor's also don't do splash to ground. In critical numbers they are still easy to deal with, where Colossi's stacked DPS in large groups is beyond good. Not to mention you cannot micro vs Colossus, since you have to walk in their range for 3.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


My biggest criticism of protoss is that the gateway units are near useless. I remember playing protoss BW style when I first started and going 10-12- gateway with nothing else , then getting spanked even when I had map control and extra expos. I wouldn't mind a nerf on storm upgrade (starting mana) as long as gateway units are buffed.

I hate the concept of charge. Zealots aren't mobile even with the 200/200 (or was it 150/150?) upgrade plus they get slowed my marauders even during charge ***?


Try going mass colossus and see how you do. Sure GW units aren't the best, they aren't supposed to be, they are only Tier 1.5/1 units (except for DTs/HTs). I view them more as "meat shields" to prevent melee units from getting up close and personal with your colossi. I'm not sure how you expect mass tier 1 units to be good... GW units are merely meant to support Colossi/VRs etc later in the game. They make up your primary army in the early-mid game, but after that, colossi/VRs become your work horses. And GW units are quite good against other units in the same tier.


----------



## Grindhouse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Colossus are way better than you are giving them credit. They are stupid good. I'm sorry but the fact that Vikings are the counter to Colossus is PLUS. You force me to get a unit that is pretty much useless, and worst of all instead of medivacs. Colossus is probably the best unit in the game. When the Thor can walk over cliffs and force air we can talk. Colossus need to be adjusted, and maybe other units buffed instead. Thor's also don't do splash to ground. In critical numbers they are still easy to deal with, where Colossi's stacked DPS in large groups is beyond good. Not to mention you cannot micro vs Colossus, since you have to walk in their range for 3.


Yea you got some good points. It's true that the colossus is the best protoss units, and one of the best units of the game. But pretty much every other protoss units are weak, don't nurf our (us, the protoss players







) only advantage !!!


----------



## DoomDash

You are missing everyone's points. We are not saying "nerf colossus" and that's the end of it. We are saying, nerf Colosuss, and make spots where Protoss is weak else where and buff them in exchange. Read the post I posted with quotes from Jinro and a high Protoss player.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, I remember the days when seeing BC's and Carriers were just like "Oh ****". BC's are still good, but Carriers kinda suck.

Motherships are dumb, yes, but I do think that they have underrated defensive capabilities ( see kiwikaki use it on husky's channel. )


I disagree. Carriers are still good, however, I think their build time has been increased from sc1, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I remember reading that they do double the damage than in sc1 due to firing two shots from each interceptor compared to one, although, I thought they always fired two shots in sc1, so, not fully sure on that point. With a decent number of them and a mothership, they are crazy good, people just don't use them much and rely mostly on gateway units.

I mean all the games that you spectated, I don't recall yks going for air units at all. One of the games I played with him 2 nights ago, he went for 5 phenoixes, but, I took them down easily with hydras and didn't lost a single OL. He didn't get any air otherwise, no wrap prisms which are great for quick support/transportation, no VRs to increase dps or a hit and run on my drones with that speed upgrade(flux?), no mothership for wraping units into my base(wish zerg had something like this) and no carriers, even though he had 3 bases compared to my measly 2.

I think the main issue is some units are just really powerful. Colossi while are great to use, are really too powerful when you have several of them. That game I was talking about, had my hydras been spread out more with one less colossi, I would've been able to take down his whole army since I had the numbers+DPS and was making another 12 or so hydras as the battle commenced, but, those 3 colossi were too much. Maybe a solution would be to change the colossi's attack, as in more focused like it used to be with a lower cost and a buff to gateway units even though I personally think that GW units aren't all that bad if you micro well(blink injured away, make ff behind maraduers for chargelots, etc....)?

The other issue seems to be that protoss air is underused when compared to zerg where most zergs get mutas, corruptors or get BLs(if time permits) at some point, likewise, some terrans get vikings for colossi or to deal with small # of mutas, most get medivacs for MM/drops into main, some go for bc although they are rare and more and more are getting ravens for PPD or just detection against dts, banelings traps, etc....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I disagree with gateway units are crap. They're underrated. They seem to be crap when they're faced with t1.5 units from other races but they are still very good, esp with sentries. The only issue is the high cost of charge and blink.


They are underrated a lot, a zealot+stalker army crushes a sling+roach army of equal size especially if you consider charge+blink into the equation, but, that's understandable since zealots > slings and stalkers > roaches









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*


I don't think they should nerf Protoss







It seems to me that it's the msot weak race really...

-Stalkers gets owned easily by MM.


Which is why you should ff behind them and make sure to get some zealot to get some damage and act as meat shields









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*


-Colossus, yes they are good, but they are also VERY VERY vulnerable, they can't hit air but they can be attacked by *vikings*. And they are pretty expensive, they need the upgrade to increase their range, without that upgrade range they are kinda useless. Compare the Colossus to the Thors, Thors win every way, cost less, can attack air and cant be attacked by vikings/phoenix).

-Void, i think they are too powerfull in full power mode, but not enough powerfull in non power mode. Very weak VS *vikings* in non power mode.

-Carrier, not bad, not good. Easy to counter them with* vikings*. Not to mention that Yamato gun also owns carriers.

Well, i guess i hate Vikings, lol.

That's just my opinion, i'm no expert. (i'm platinum, 540 victory with protoss out of 1000 games, i play 4v4, yea i know that makes me a noob lol)


If colossi hit air, then they are OP. They are support units like hts or thors and are pretty powerful for their cost. A couple could potentially wipe out a decent size army if they have some support. Thors might be able to attack air, but, they do no splash and can't steep up cliffs to escape a bad situation in comparison to colossi.

Void rays are countered by vikings if i recall correctly due to range and the ability to kite them. Yes, vikings > carriers when you factor in costs+build time(I think 3 vikings to 1 carrier), but, that's why you also have some phenoixes accompanying them to take out the vikings. Vikings aren't really that bad of a unit to deal with, just have some stalkers or phenoixes and that should be enough to protect carriers from them, since, they are air to air only until switched to ground, so, they are limited.

From the 3vs3 and 4vs4 games I've played, seems most opponents just mass one unit type(VRs, immortals, colossi, etc....) and move in for the kill. VRs when powered up in large numbers are pretty hard to stop









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Colossus are way better than you are giving them credit. They are stupid good. I'm sorry but the fact that Vikings are the counter to Colossus is PLUS. You force me to get a unit that is pretty much useless, and worst of all instead of medivacs. Colossus is probably the best unit in the game. When the Thor can walk over cliffs and force air we can talk. Colossus need to be adjusted, and maybe other units buffed instead. Thor's also don't do splash to ground. In critical numbers they are still easy to deal with, where Colossi's stacked DPS in large groups is beyond good. Not to mention you cannot micro vs Colossus, since you have to walk in their range for 3.


True, one thing about the viking though, is that you can use them to make a quick hit on a base by landing in their mineral field and withdrawing as reinforcements come in. I'm still surprised at the number of T who don't do this at all, to me, it's what makes them a nice unit with interesting abilities


----------



## Grindhouse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You are missing everyone's points. We are not saying "nerf colossus" and that's the end of it. We are saying, nerf Colosuss, and make spots where Protoss is weak else where and buff them in exchange. Read the post I posted with quotes from Jinro and a high Protoss player.


I understand that, i read the posts, i just didn't specified that point in my post.

But would they change the other units enough to make them really better ? That's what i'm worried about. For exemple, could we expect to see stalkers being able to compete to MM ? Because at the moment, massing stalkers VS massing MM, it's easy to say who will win. Need colossus, a tier 2 unit (or is it tier 3?), to be albe to compete VS MM, tier 1 units. Even then, i better have MANY colossus, because a few maurauders will bring them down pretty fast.

But yea, if done right, nurfing a little bit the colossus and buff some other units could be good.

I don't think the colossus are THAT overkill though. They are very good, but not unstoppable.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*


I understand that, i read the posts, i just didn't specified that point in my post.

But would they change the other units enough to make them really better ? That's what i'm worried about. For exemple, could we expect to see stalkers being able to compete to MM ? Because at the moment, massing stalkers VS massing MM, it's easy to say who will win. Need colossus, a tier 2 unit (or is it tier 3?), to be albe to compete VS MM, tier 1 units. Even then, i better have MANY colossus, because a few maurauders will bring them down pretty fast.

But yea, if done right, nurfing a little bit the colossus and buff some other units could be good.

I don't think the colossus are THAT overkill though. They are very good, but not unstoppable.


Marauders counter stalkers easily which is why adding zealots in which help your stalker to survive and do some more damage(takes 14-15 shots to take down zealot by marauders(10 damage/hit)). You should always be ff'ing when using zealots+stalkers against MM because kiting zealot is pretty easy with marines having a range of 5 and marauders with 6. Having a colossi without support is just a bad idea, but, with support, they do well against all ground units


----------



## Grindhouse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Marauders counter stalkers easily which is why adding zealots in which help your stalker to survive and do some more damage(takes 14-15 shots to take down zealot by marauders(10 damage/hit)). You should always be ff'ing when using zealots+stalkers against MM because kiting zealot is pretty easy with marines having a range of 5 and marauders with 6. Having a colossi without support is just a bad idea, but, with support, they do well against all ground units










Yes of course, i support my colossus with stalkers. My ''classic'' army is mass stalkers + colossus. Depending what's going on in the game, early attack or not, etc, i end up with something like 24-30 stalkers and 6-8 colossus.

I think my perception of the game might be distorted also. I mean i always play 4v4, that give very different game types than 1v1 or 2v2, in which people probably try to get a more diverse/versatile army. Like you said, in 4v4 people often mass 1 type of units, then meet with allies and go attack. Makes nice large battle, but doesn't make really good players. (or there's the classic 3 meet and go hit, one harass base with mass mutas)

I've seen so much people owning my colossus with mass mutas, or mass vikings or mass void, and then the rest of my stalkers getting owned by MM.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*


Yes of course, i support my colossus with stalkers. My ''classic'' army is mass stalkers + colossus. Depending what's going on in the game, early attack or not, etc, i end up with something like 24-30 stalkers and 6-8 colossus.

I think my perception of the game might be distorted also. I mean i always play 4v4, that give very different game types than 1v1 or 2v2, in which people probably try to get a more diverse/versatile army. Like you said, in 4v4 people often mass 1 type of units, then meet with allies and go attack. Makes nice large battle, but doesn't make really good players. (or there's the classic 3 meet and go hit, one harass base with mass mutas)

I've seen so much people owning my colossus with mass mutas, or mass vikings or mass void, and then the rest of my stalkers getting owned by MM.


Agreed to everything








Why not give 1vs1 a try? It's interesting, more fast paced, since, you don't need to wait so long to mass units and will give you a different view. Do I dare say, you might even like it?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I disagree. Carriers are still good...

I mean all the games that you spectated, I don't recall yks going for air units at all. One of the games I played with him 2 nights ago, he went for 5 phenoixes, but, I took them down easily with hydras and didn't lost a single OL. He didn't get any air otherwise, no wrap prisms which are great for quick support/transportation, no VRs to increase dps or a hit and run on my drones with that speed upgrade(flux?), no mothership for wraping units into my base(wish zerg had something like this) and no carriers, even though he had 3 bases compared to my measly 2.

I think the main issue is some units are just really powerful. Colossi while are great to use, are really too powerful when you have several of them. That game I was talking about, had my hydras been spread out more with one less colossi, I would've been able to take down his whole army since I had the numbers+DPS and was making another 12 or so hydras as the battle commenced, but, those 3 colossi were too much. Maybe a solution would be to change the colossi's attack, as in more focused like it used to be with a lower cost and a buff to gateway units even though I personally think that GW units aren't all that bad if you micro well(blink injured away, make ff behind maraduers for chargelots, etc....)?


Wait, you want me to go AIR against your basically mass-hydra army? Hydras. Health aside, Hydras, the highest DPS unit in the Zerg arsenal. And you still want me to continue air? That just sounds like you want me to play bad and lose =[ I made the wise choice and tech-switched

VR for DPS? For hit and runs on drones? Who uses VR's to hit and run or as a DPS unit if you don't have high-health units?

Who continues making Phoenix's when you aren't making mutas? They can harass but do they serve a purpose when it comes crunch time?

and I'll ignore the mothership and carrier, cause those units are garbage.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Wait, you want me to go AIR against your basically mass-hydra army? Hydras. Health aside, Hydras, the highest DPS unit in the Zerg arsenal. And you still want me to continue air? That just sounds like you want me to play bad and lose =[ I made the wise choice and tech-switched

VR for DPS? For hit and runs on drones? Who uses VR's to hit and run or as a DPS unit if you don't have high-health units?

Who continues making Phoenix's when you aren't making mutas? They can harass but do they serve a purpose when it comes crunch time?

and I'll ignore the mothership and carrier, cause those units are garbage.


Nope, I think you played brilliantly







I meant ALL the games we played yesterday, I was mostly going roaches+slings which don't attack air, so, going air with some ground would've make it hard to retaliate. If you look at all our games, I didn't go mutas until the last one and it was too late then. I was just pointing out that most P don't use air units, not that you had to use them








Mothership isn't a bad as people think it is, mass recall, cloaking and the hits you can get using your units before it's taken down is worth its cost big time







Carriers aren't bad either, they just take too long to make and lose to 3 vikings which cost less. Adding a couple of VRs to your army to increase dps when they power up seems like a good idea to me, my opinion at least









Edit: Forgot about phenoix, going around picking off OLs will cost me a lot of minerals and delay making more units which is the same reason that mutas are used, for harassing. I was mentioning that a couple for general harass, such as picking off queens and OLs would be great. They also go well against mutas









Edit2: Forgot to mention that you don't need to hit and run for VRs, it was just an idea for usage. Better to have them with stalkers or zealots


----------



## DoomDash

I can make carriers work, I'm sure.. but they still suck ( compared to most options ). Think of them as a gimmick in SC2, while in SC1 they were a legit strat.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I can make carriers work, I'm sure.. but they still suck ( compared to most options ). Think of them as a gimmick in SC2, while in SC1 they were a legit strat.


The thing is, if they cost the same, but, take more time to make and do twice the damage, i don't see how they are worst than SC1 carriers. Given, I think their range has been decreased and the launch of interceptors is slower, although, you can upgrade their speed. I do hope they make them more viable, but, what do you think about other P air units?









My main point to yks was that most P I've played against use zealot+stalker+sentry, zealot+stalker+sentry+colossi or stalkers/colossi combos, would be nice to see more strats. I don't see wrap prism, phenoixes, carriers, mothership and VRs are rare these days, so, to me, protoss air seems to be non-existant. Compare that to sc1 where scouts(personally loved them, such a great unit, would love them back







) and carriers were used much more. Even the corsair's disruption web was great to do drops without getting your shuttle damaged in the process. Arbitor were used a lot both for their freezing ability(name?), cloak and recall. If you guys notice, Arbitor=mothership, although, they increased hp, gave it bad hole or whatever the ability is called instead of freeze, but, it still does the same thing(prevent said units from attacking) but you get one so that people don't spam them I presume


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


The thing is, if they cost the same, but, take more time to make and do twice the damage, i don't see how they are worst than SC1 carriers. Given, I think their range has been decreased and the launch of interceptors is slower, although, you can upgrade their speed. I do hope they make them more viable, but, what do you think about other P air units?










There was no vikings, and corrupter in SC1. I honestly think the dedicated AA units in SC2 are a little too good vs massive / capitol ships.

Voidrays are pretty good, phoenix have their moments.. but meh. I think the void ray is under rated as support unit though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There was no vikings, and corrupter in SC1. I honestly think the dedicated AA units in SC2 are a little too good vs massive / capitol ships.

Voidrays are pretty good, phoenix have their moments.. but meh. I think the void ray is under rated as support unit though.


Well, true, but, wriaths were pretty good in large groups especially if your opponent forgets an observor or gets it taken out, then the carriers are useless against wriaths until you get another and with damage of 25 or so, that's pretty significant, so, to me, vikings are very similar to wriaths removing the cloak ability to add longer range and the ability to land on the ground which is good when you are engaging units that are air to air only(corruptors). Also, corruptors are similar to devourers, I think they even have a lower hp(250 compared to 200) and their damage of 20 is less than the 25 damage that devourers used to do. Add on that acid or whatever it was called used to build up on units in sc1 and the devourer seems much stronger than corruptors.

I do agree with the VR being underrated though









I edited my above post as well to add more info and similarities to SC1


----------



## DoomDash

But Corrupter have Corruption, and I'm pretty sure the DPS is higher on Corrupter.. plus Corrupter are cheaper ( 150/100 vs 250/150 with muta transforming ).

Vikings range 9 slaughters carriers... and they can be pumped out much faster than Wraiths could in SC1.

Again just easier to counter.


----------



## DoomDash

Also think of the build time of the MUTA, then the Devourer. Way more than a single corrupter.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But Corrupter have Corruption, and I'm pretty sure the DPS is higher on Corrupter.. plus Corrupter are cheaper ( 150/100 vs 250/150 with muta transforming ).

Vikings range 9 slaughters carriers... and they can be pumped out much faster than Wraiths could in SC1.

Again just easier to counter.


Well, true corruptors are cheaper and vikings can be pumped out much faster than wriaths. Just trying to show the similarities









The muta thing is true as well, but, if you decide not to make devourers, mutas are still useful while corruptors are pretty useless if your opponent doesn't go air after the battle


----------



## DoomDash

But they really aren't that similar. If that were true carriers wouldn't suck, and pretty much everyone agrees that they do.

I will remind you:


You Tube





My interceptors feel like cupcakes throwin sprinkles in your face


----------



## BigFan

^^ Remember hearing that, I admit they seem much weaker than SC1 carriers, not sure why though.

Finally watched the fruitdealer against Foxer match:


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Pretty interesting, amazing micro by Foxer as well. Marines are crazy good if you can micro as well as he does, although over 99% of players can't







It was interesting how he hid the second rax, know most do, but, fruitdealer didn't even notice it in the first game. I was also impressed how well fruitdealer was able to hold over the pressure in the 2nd game, but, I was still surprised that he went with the same build. I understand that he's practiced it plenty, but, I would've thought getting pool than a baneling nest the best idea against T followed by the warren, but, since I don't play professionally, maybe there was a reason for the warren aside from the fact that roaches are good for tanking. He also had some nice drops mid-way through









Really hope he starts to change his strat around in GSL 3


----------



## DoomDash

There are only two people with marine micro that good.


----------



## thiru

And it was Nestea, not FruitDealer..

edit Oh wait you're not talking about the finals. My bad.


----------



## sora1607

I'm looking for some practice partners to practice with me before I get back in the online world after months of hibernation. I'd like to practice 1v1 or 2's if anyone wanna play with me. Anyone Gold and above should add me from my sig. I really want to get back into the game but getting online now would mean total demolition due to no practice. I'm posting up here in the hopes of finding someone to play, enjoy, and have fun with in this amazing game. Let's get better together! Oh and I'm in Plat league


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
And it was Nestea, not FruitDealer..

edit Oh wait you're not talking about the finals. My bad.

np, yes, Nestea is also amazing. Plan to watch the finals and his game against Boxer because I heard they are amazing









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
There are only two people with marine micro that good.

Yes, agreed, I'm assuming Foxer and Slayers_Boxer?


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



When I was told he lost, I thought it was game 2= game 1 as in the same thing, bring marines early, do some harass, etc.... but didn't realize that the game would stretch out for how long it did and it was interesting that Foxer had 10 medivacs by then with something like 5-6 rax or so. Pretty impressive strat







I think the banelings nest being taken out as well as that early OL loss, the constant harass and that drop were what took him down, of course, we can't forget the amazing micro and using the choke with his marines near the exp to minimize damage and take all of FD's slings out


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes, agreed, I'm assuming Foxer and Slayers_Boxer?

You are correct.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You are correct.

I was gonna include you in the list for amazing micro, but, I thought you'll prefer Boxer first







, JK of course, although, I'm sure with enough practice, you can probably reach their level, since, you seem dedicated to the game









Anyone up for a game or two tonight in maybe 30min-1hr or so?









Edit: BTW, I was being serious about becoming as good with the micro


----------



## yks

What about my blink micro~!


----------



## turbocharged

It's so hard to do homework when there are so many good casts to watch


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
What about my blink micro~!

Your blink micro is also really good, my only complaint would be that based on what I saw when you played doom last night, it *seems* a bit slow, probably just more practice needed, but, it's still pretty good. What you can do is just make a ton of stalkers and roaches and then practice blink using the editor. If you practice that scenario enough, you're blink micro will skyrocket. Of course, start with a small number of stalkers and roaches and make more of each as your ability to micro the stalkers increases, otherwise, if you are trying to micro 50 or so and don't have the required level, you'll get overwhelmed








Up for a game or two in 15-20min?


----------



## yks

Okay, so a recap of the Qualifiers for those of you who weren't able to keep up.

GSL Season 3 will have:
*27* Zergs (42%)
*24* Terrans (38%)
*12* Protoss (18%)
and *1* Random (2%)

Notable Players failing to qualify:
NaDa, probably the biggest upset.
Loner, probably the 2nd biggest upset.
Cella!, probably my saddest moment.

SangHo, Inca, Tester, Ensnare
--
HuK, KiwiKaki, Incontrol, Artosis, Torch, Select


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Okay, so a recap of the Qualifiers for those of you who weren't able to keep up.

GSL Season 3 will have:
*27* Zergs (42%)
*24* Terrans (38%)
*12* Protoss (18%)
and *1* Random (2%)

Notable Players failing to qualify:
NaDa, probably the biggest upset.
Loner, probably the 2nd biggest upset.
Cella!, probably my saddest moment.

SangHo, Inca, Tester, Ensnare
--
HuK, KiwiKaki, Incontrol, Artosis, Torch, Select

Thanks for this, +REP







Bad question, but, I'm guessing all those other players didn't make it, since, someone mentioned HuK didn't?









@banded Sorry I wasn't able to respond to the message you sent me, I was planning to reply, but, I accidentally closed it







Was watching a replay and planning to head to bed, so, I wouldn't have been able to play a game, but, we can probably get one going tommorrow







I'll make sure to add you so that if this happens again, we can still communicate









@DoomDash Watched that base race game you uploaded. One thing that I loved about T is the ability to lift off and you used it well landing in that secluded area between the rocks. The one thing that came to mind though is when you had those 2 hellions, why not wait for a third then attack? You also didn't seem to micro them because his slings easily got a surround. Three hellions would've fried those lings regardless of them not having the blue flame upgrade. He would've keep on making slings while you massed MM and by the time he's taken down those hellions, your MM would've easily OP'd whatever he had. Other than this remark, I think you played well. It was interesting to see how he responded to your bunker early on and the fact that he built another hatchery in his exp and not main. Only guess is to use that to make a choke, but, who knows









Just had an interesting ZvsZ game on Scrap Station. The interesting part was that he went for 15 exp 14 pool which is my usual although I avoid it against Z and I went the opposite of that because I anticipated a zling attack like the usual one ZvsZ matches are. Well, I caught him right as he was building his pool and the rest was history. I find whenever you get the upper hand in ZvsZ, it can be easier to maintain if you keep tabs on what they are producing, their tech level, etc.... although I guess that's pretty much the same with all games and races.

Replay for anyone interested: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station
I didn't drone as hard as I wanted, but, I think droning was what hurt him early on and there was another reason for less drones, I'll keep that a secret


----------



## banded1

its no problem
i assumed something was up when you didnt respond. did you need my info for the add or did you see it earlier?

game on metalopolis
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ce-metalopolis
zerg player used burrowed units only


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Just had an interesting ZvsZ game on Scrap Station. The interesting part was that he went for 15 exp 14 pool which is my usual although I avoid it against Z and I went the opposite of that because I anticipated a zling attack like the usual one ZvsZ matches are. Well, I caught him right as he was building his pool and the rest was history. I find whenever you get the upper hand in ZvsZ, it can be easier to maintain if you keep tabs on what they are producing, their tech level, etc.... although I guess that's pretty much the same with all games and races.

What exactly do you mean by "I went the opposite of that" - 10 pool? If he blindly went 15 hatch/14 pool without scouting against Z he's kind of an idiot. Scouting with the 8th or 9th drone is key in a ZvZ since early game boils down to a game of Pool Chicken. Keep tabs on when he drops his pool and you can pretty easily go for an economic opening - even hatch first depending on rush distances. With that being said, if you see an early pool with your scout, you better abort your plan in a hurry.

What's the timing on your initial OL getting to his base on SS? I think I have the map banned


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

@DoomDash Watched that base race game you uploaded. One thing that I loved about T is the ability to lift off and you used it well landing in that secluded area between the rocks. The one thing that came to mind though is when you had those 2 hellions, why not wait for a third then attack? You also didn't seem to micro them because his slings easily got a surround. Three hellions would've fried those lings regardless of them not having the blue flame upgrade. He would've keep on making slings while you massed MM and by the time he's taken down those hellions, your MM would've easily OP'd whatever he had. Other than this remark, I think you played well. It was interesting to see how he responded to your bunker early on and the fact that he built another hatchery in his exp and not main. Only guess is to use that to make a choke, but, who knows









How many I had didn't really matter because I ran into a problem. If you notice I tried to chase after his drones but the hellions were actually unable to fit between his two buildings at the bottom of the ramp! So I could not get through! Also, I'm not sure I recall what happened to them, but Hellions are actually pretty bad against speedlings with out blue flame and in small numbers. Unless they all line up, but speedlings never really line up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OH man. Day 212's day9 daily is so helpful for p vs mutas.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
OH man. Day 212's day9 daily is so helpful for p vs mutas.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=167992


----------



## yks

omg, this week's State of the Game is probably my favorite.

hahaha, i'm listening to it while i type this.

painuser vs nony and incontrol. arguing about who has it worst. is the BEST PART.

the highlight was banshee vs DT.

pain user was like, "DT's are better than banshee's"
and incontrol was like, "WHAT THE ****!"
and nony was like, "How many games in tournaments were won becuase of Banshee's? Like 20. Now how many games were won because of DTs? Like 1"

and a lot lot more.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I just finished, but it wasn't my favorite.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
omg, this week's State of the Game is probably my favorite.

hahaha, i'm listening to it while i type this.

painuser vs nony and incontrol. arguing about who has it worst. is the BEST PART.

the highlight was banshee vs DT.

pain user was like, "DT's are better than banshee's"
and incontrol was like, "WHAT THE ****!"
and nony was like, "How many games in tournaments were won becuase of Banshee's? Like 20. Now how many games were won because of DTs? Like 1"

and a lot lot more.

Here's Fruitdealer getting beaten by ogsInCa's DT's and blink stalkers. Inca just played defense until he got the DT's out. Fruitdealer gg'ed immediately when the DT's attacked. He wasn't ready for them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUMqVKzU3qw&feature=related


----------



## DoomDash

Wow, I hate laddering sometimes. Every single game today I played against at least 2000+ ( I'm mid 1800's at best right now ), and every single time besides once I was slightly favored. Please just show our MMR bnet, because at least that way it will make sense. I hate being favored, nothing worse than losing 15 points to someone who is 2000+.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


its no problem 
i assumed something was up when you didnt respond. did you need my info for the add or did you see it earlier?

game on metalopolis
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ce-metalopolis
zerg player used burrowed units only


ok, I'll look back to find your number or if you type here, it's save me the time









Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


What exactly do you mean by "I went the opposite of that" - 10 pool? If he blindly went 15 hatch/14 pool without scouting against Z he's kind of an idiot. Scouting with the 8th or 9th drone is key in a ZvZ since early game boils down to a game of Pool Chicken. Keep tabs on when he drops his pool and you can pretty easily go for an economic opening - even hatch first depending on rush distances. With that being said, if you see an early pool with your scout, you better abort your plan in a hurry.

What's the timing on your initial OL getting to his base on SS? I think I have the map banned










What I meant is that since I anticipated a zling attack and considered the long attack distance, I went for pool 15 then hatch 15/14, although, I made my hatch elsewhere since I weighed the chance of it being discovered and was rather confident it wouldn't be. He did scout using his OL and then a drone and saw the zlings coming. They arrived in his base just as his pool finished and I was only able to take out some drones and saw his exp, so, really my attack just gave me intel on what he was planning, along with getting his drones to stop mining for those precious seconds









For scouting, I just moved my OL into his base and looked for a pool early on and when I noticed his drone count+no pool, I was 100% positive that he went for an early exp. I wasn't able to take advantage of him expanding early due to the long distance and since he was probably ahead on macro. I think his biggest mistake was making a 3rd hatch rather late and also the fact that he didn't tech up fast enough, because, once I saw those roaches, I knew for a fact that getting a lair could mean GG









I do need to mention though, that it was anyone's game. He could've won had he made his 3rd hatch faster and kept on pushing, since, I didn't even put down a roach warren, used slings for my attacks and counters and with a large number of roaches, slings are easy to take out









Good question on the timing, TBH, not sure, I started to move the OL right as the game started and we all know how slow those things can move







I got there after he went for an exp, maybe 5 min in?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How many I had didn't really matter because I ran into a problem. If you notice I tried to chase after his drones but the hellions were actually unable to fit between his two buildings at the bottom of the ramp! So I could not get through! Also, I'm not sure I recall what happened to them, but Hellions are actually pretty bad against speedlings with out blue flame and in small numbers. Unless they all line up, but speedlings never really line up.


Yes, I did notice that you tried to squeeze through but couldn't. My point was that if you were able to wait for the 3rd hellion, then you could've roasted his slings with minimal loses and likely prevented a surround, but, I would need to look again at the reply to see if there were other holes they could fit through. As to what happened to them, well, you left them attacking the pool or nest and his slings got an easy surround







I will admit though that slings are harder to kite due to their fast speed(4.7 which is darn good







). Maybe a hellion speed upgrade would help, but, then hellions moving at 4.7 speed would be crazy, lol, they'll likely grow wings like slings









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Here's Fruitdealer getting beaten by ogsInCa's DT's and blink stalkers. Inca just played defense until he got the DT's out. Fruitdealer gg'ed immediately when the DT's attacked. He wasn't ready for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUMqV...eature=related


If you don't get an overseer, a spore crawler, basically any form of detection, it's pretty much gg, because, dt's power lies in the fact that they are cloaked and their damage is amazing(45 damage if I recall correctly)







I've lost a game where an opponent wraped 5-6 dts into my base and even though I was able to take them down, he attacked with some zealots+stalkers from the front after his initial assault and with barely any units to defend, it was GG









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wow, I hate laddering sometimes. Every single game today I played against at least 2000+ ( I'm mid 1800's at best right now ), and every single time besides once I was slightly favored. Please just show our MMR bnet, because at least that way it will make sense. I hate being favored, nothing worse than losing 15 points to someone who is 2000+.


I think someone on SC2 forums mentioned it best. Blizzard keeps it hidden, first and foremost due to the fact that if you see your MMR, you might not like it and for opponents in the lower leagues, it might cause them to quit the game as a whole, basically, it can be very discouraging. The second reason might be because people will abuse it, but, not sure how.


----------



## banded1

tag is banded
code is 526


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169830










The MMR / Match making system takes into account division skills as well? Wow.


----------



## rhed5

what does it say? TL blocked at work


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


what does it say? TL blocked at work


In spoiler tags, quoted. Same guy who made the MMR threads on TL.

Quote:



*On November 18 2010 05:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:*
This week's Top 200 also included the win-loss records of each player at the time of the snapshot, which means we can use their match histories on Battle.net to work backwards and determine their points. Here are the results. The bolded lines are verified entries, meaning I was able to confirm that their current point values properly matched up to their match history. The unbolded lines are entries that could not be verified because they've either played too many non-1v1s or more than 25 1v1 games such that I couldn't go far enough back in their history.

*What We Know:*
We know that divisions are not equal, confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the Top 200 is generated by points without factoring in "the skill of your division."
We know that the Top 200 is not based on MMR or any other factor except points (including bonus used), confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the only difference between SC2Ranks' point rankings and the weekly Top 200 snapshot is interspersed divisions.

Quote:



BlizzNameRecord SnapshotRatingDivision
*1Katari1102-6712834Kelerchian X-Ray
2SeleCT551-2112794Medic Mu
3ROOTslush604-3572775Medivac Alamo
4TTOne572-3412734Medic Mu
5AlLaboUtyOu650-4592905Ehlna Bravo*
6EGStrifeCro475-3102703Akilae Omicron
*7Boyardee365-1992927Urun Charlie
8CrunCher348-2402664Medic Mu*
9HasHe861-6322646Medivac Alamo
*10Cheese382-2312645Akilae Omicron*
11dKiLLeR285-1842639Hartley Quest
*12LiquidHuK479-1702639Medivac Alamo*
13Baz1296-10912633Argo Echo
*14MasterAsia348-2272623Kelerchian X-Ray
14ViBE327-2172623Medic Mu*
*16EGIdrA227-822622Medic Mu*
17OpTiKzErO543-4042530Selendis Quest
*18ROOTqxc314-1242605Observer Mars
19Warden731-6062845Boros Uncle
20EGiNkA419-2802583Medivac Alamo
21Slurgi417-3382581Talematros Eta*
22Cranklodocus600-4742570Horner Chi
23DuFFmAn611-4972569Medivac Alamo
*24Perplexity561-4572568Medivac Alamo
24InflowMini924-7902883Scout Kilo*
26ROOTdrewbie269-1312564Medic Mu
27nEAnS573-4242536Medic Mu
*28Fenix306-1402558Immortal Yankee
29dde318-2292557Turaxis Yankee*
30NamhciR379-2132580Observer Mars
*31PainUser260-1182549Pylon Kappa
32BrokenRhythm758-5932547Medic Pepper
33TheZealot104-532546Overmind Victor
34lovemyRM470-4052540Nagglfar Zed
35theognis335-2442661Feld Lima*
36Zelniq988-7632442Medivac Alamo
*37Denelorn190-792545Victory Bravo
38Gretorp309-2142526Immortal Yankee
39DeAtHRoW361-2142521Medic Mu
40Kangwook490-4002772Feld Delta
41DalaiLameR106-622518Uraj Dixie*
42InflowLooky831-7152488Medivac Alamo
*42JJYAN201-982512Medivac Juliet*
44Mankeyz280-2092485Turaxis Yankee
*45sixjaxNewsh94-362505Victory Bravo*
45PiQLiQ998-8122630Shuttle Nu
*47CocoA520-3892502Observer Mars*
48stev376-3082454Horner Chi
*49BananaMilk123-702495Hartley Quest
50EGMachine221-1462492Kelerchian X-Ray*
51OrgA202-1282504Akilae Omicron
*52InflowLinko479-3542475Uraj Omega
53LiquidTyler203-1072483Zekrath Sigma
54Mark509-3882481Turaxis Yankee
55Magulina110-582480Medivac Juliet
55OnEMoReTrY315-2332480Uraj Omega*
57ThisIsJimmy553-4372459Akilae Omicron
*58Yakero152-472478Hartley Quest
59LiquidRet128-432477Phash Kappa
60NeverDawn207-1392476Tassadar Charlie*
61EGAxslav562-3942514Pylon Kappa
62BoO496-4042370Uraj Omega
*63SoFtBalL132-652464Uraj Dixie
64Arena190-1372462Victory Bravo*
65BloodThirsty969-8772360Argo Echo
*66Malice648-4662459Medic Mu
67Broom193-1262458Moratun Sierra
68LiquidNazgul179-1122457Medivac Juliet
69bLuR525-4372580Infestor Pepper*
70Ngry217-1412438Akilae Omicron
*71Agh630-4972441Medic Mu
72sLeepisT397-3232439Immortal Yankee*
72Levin627-4662503Medivac Alamo
74ReSpOnSe743-6282455Observer Mars
*75CellaWerra351-2132433Raven Zed
76ROOTDdoRo801-6362683Shuttle Foxtrot
77Taurent345-1972429Akilae Omicron*
78MnMVadar691-5882487Observer Mars
*79AlexCMoi384-2602426Lenassa Dixie
80EnvY575-4702424Observer Mars
81dayvie485-3652738Scout Kilo
81sikatrix396-2932423Medic Mu
81NadaViKinG273-2142423Tassadar Charlie
81Rigid621-4902423Medivac Alamo
85iKillBanshee290-2322417Overmind Victor*
86SPeCiaLiST354-2822418Phash Kappa
*86Nadagast258-1662416Talematros Eta
88Capoch439-3302413Observer Mars
89Humble236-1762408Turaxis Yankee
90Vtmisery369-2922407Observer Mars
91Mura482-4202404Medic Mu
92rsvp481-4152465Argo Echo
93DarkCell215-1552399Zergling Quest
94FlyingSheep323-2412524Infestor Pepper
94prosu423-3512398Lenassa Dixie
94ReasoN174-1062398Raven Zed*
97LuckyFool464-3742423Medic Mu
*97SKU188-1282520Infestor Pepper
99Pookie450-3792391Immortal Yankee
100LegendofBert547-4712390Medic Mu*
*101Xog774-6862513Feld Lima
102FireZerg483-3932385Medic Mu*
102lime279-2162382Observer Mars
104ROOTCatZ728-5882467Medivac Alamo
*105AhhBoxxah151-842379Talematros Eta
105scvrusher240-1742631Urun Charlie
105ZpuX97-512379Medivac Juliet
109junny265-2002377Talematros Eta
110mystik379-3162376Akilae Omicron*
111MnMEdward520-4422463Medivac Juliet
*112giX273-2022374Immortal Yankee
113EGLzGaMeR523-4062368Medivac Alamo
114toddman614-5102367Medivac Alamo
115owmygroin963-8722365Medic Mu
116CNBgrtmn194-1392364Talematros Eta
116RaNgeD714-6272616Augustgrad Psi
118RedAlert336-2652361Lenassa Dixie
119VTAttero175-1092359Lenassa Dixie*
120TaurosPKM412-3472461Feld Lima
*120StyGGeN230-1722353Raven Zed
120nGenMaFia123-802353Hartley Quest*
123VTClonze202-1402338Medic Mu
124SiN504-4042415Medic Pepper
125Drew345-2702275Medic Mu
*126Time935-8252343Medivac Alamo*
126RuFF891-7622619Augustgrad X-Ray
126Namkung302-2422343Akilae Omicron
129NyDGMMA1522-14032627Raven Chi
130Destiny732-6562326Observer Mars
*130makoplux591-5372338Uraj Omega
130hotsauce641-5452338Medivac Alamo
133RuNei184-1362333Observer Mars*
133Kyhol500-3942475Observer Mars
*133Toosneaky573-4912333Akilae Omicron
136ostojiy335-2452328Medivac Alamo
137Blade326-2652327Tassadar Charlie
138spekkiO121-702325Overmind Victor
138lamp257-1742325Turaxis Yankee
140jungik236-1902324Moratun Sierra
140ROOTBubba331-2442324Medivac Alamo
140EGiNcontroL565-4242324Medivac Alamo
143CombatEX733-6482632Goliath Beta
144Nostra866-7662442Spectre Zed*
144TriMaster226-1782348Moratun Sierra
146AoNe631-5472405Phash Bravo
*147Antimage384-2942313Medic Mu
148nexx141-892436Corsair Uncle
149mTwDIMAGA80-432309Medivac Juliet*
149Kalu120-662363Rimes Tau
*149aloOla123-392309Overmind Victor
152mOOnGLaDe182-992308Pylon Kappa*
153SlayerSBekHo210-1602300Zergling Quest
*154Fuzzyweebit383-3202304Pylon Kappa
155Shpongled330-2692303Medivac Alamo
156Polar376-3192301Akilae Omicron*
156Lombrastic521-4562315Akilae Omicron
*158Kanako432-3432615Valerian Uncle*
159ButteryLlama600-5042392Medic Mu
159ACERGAMEGMMA1458-13462627Mohandar Romeo
159VTSwu283-2312341Argo Echo
*162Clefairy166-1122297Akilae Omicron*
163sKsYeN487-4042545Arcturus Mars
*164Sungpa492-4202608Dragoon Sierra
164Monkey666-5442293Medivac Alamo
166REBUKED723-5532354Argo Echo*
167MsButtloaves147-962371Uraj Dixie
*168Perfect506-4282351Executor Phi*
169Dhalism640-5462404Medic Mu
*170GoGoGo87-502286Overmind Victor
171EtsurLizzuma593-5192471Shakuras Uncle*
171RaNGirLxD320-2572309Kelerchian X-Ray
173Ganon186-1292450Void Ray Tango
174VTZerker554-4882291Medivac Alamo
*174ROOTFayth290-2182409Infestor Pepper
176NerZhul431-3722339Argo Echo*
177Maker651-5702599Infestor Pepper
178LeeHyoRi365-2882272Hartley Quest
*179Azz429-3542272Immortal Yankee
179AcidiC548-4812272Medivac Alamo
181Mykill270-1822332Medivac Charlie*
182Fenneth319-2622262Dominion Beta
183tehredbandit359-3072252Zergling Quest
184cVen359-3002254Medic Mu
*184Lost402-3452265Medic Pepper*
184rSLagLovah204-1472259Observer Mars
*187Aoratha410-3522264Uraj Omega
187Renson225-1802264Uraj Dixie*
189Ikki373-3172276Akilae Omicron
190ShivanD228-1762301Lenassa Phi
*190McLoviN304-2532262Uraj Omega
192Dog227-1752261Medic Mu*
193Andro631-5542224Observer Mars
194OdiN617-5482239Tassadar Charlie
195Shoey450-3892237Immortal Yankee
*196MattDamon639-5562252Observer Mars
196VTWhiplash326-2772252Observer Mars
198AlwaysYou227-1752250Shuttle Nu*
199VTGoddeR569-4952553Void Ray Tau
*200SeaofStorms172-1202245Talematros Eta*


Keeping in mind that the Top 200 is by points before division modifiers are applied (because divisions are not equal), this tells us a few things:

* Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu are equal in rank.
- Medivac Alamo and Akilae Omicron are _probably_ equal in rank to Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu
* Ehlna Bravo is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray
* Urun Charlie is a rank below Ehlna Bravo
* Boros Uncle is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu, but it is not known whether it is equal to Ehlna Bravo or Urun Charlie

Based on these findings we can create a kind of division hierarchy:

*S-Rank:* (modifier: 0 *note that this only means that no divisions with a lower modifier were found, so we'll use 0 until a higher-level division emerges)
Medic Mu
Medivac Alamo (likely)
Kelerchian X-Ray
Akilae Omicron
Hartley Quest
Horner Chi (likely)
Talematros Eta (likely)
Horner Chi (likely)
Immortal Yankee
Turaxis Yankee
Observer Mars (likely)
Pylon Kappa (likely)
Medic Pepper (likely)
Overmind Victor
Nagglfar Zeg (likely)
Selendis Quest (possible)
Uraj Dixie (likely)
Medivac Juliet (likely)
Uraj Omega
Zekrath Sigma (likely)
Phash Kappa (likely)
Tassadar Charlie
Victory Bravo (likely)
Moratun Sierra
Raven Zed
Lenassa Dixie
Zergling Quest (likely)
Shuttle Nu (likely)

*A-Rank:* (modifier: +63)
Argo Echo
Executor Phi

*B-Rank:* (modifier: +126)
Feld Lima
Infestor Pepper
Corsair Uncle

*C-Rank:* (modifier: +189)
Ehlna Bravo

*D-Rank:* (modifier: +252)
Boros Uncle
Urun Charlie
Feld Delta
Shuttle Foxtrot
Augustgrad Psi
Augustgrad X-Ray
Raven Chi
Goliath Beta

*E-Rank:* (modifier: +315)
Scout Kilo
Dragoon Sierra

Not Sure of Rank:
Mohandar Romeo (maybe C or D?)
Arcturus Mars (maybe C or D?)
Lenassa Phi (maybe A?)

Some more interesting data points:
* 2905 Ehlna Bravo is between 2734 and 2703 in S-Rank (between +171 and 202 points)
* 2568 Medivac Alamo is equal to 2883 in Scout Kilo (+315 points)
* 2845 Boros Uncle is between 2605 and 2583 in S-Rank (between +240 and 262 points)
* 2772 Feld Delta is between 2521 and 2518 in S-Rank (between +251 and 254 points)
* 2480 Uraj Omega is equal to 2480 Medivac Juliet (confirmed identical)
* 2683 Shuttle Foxtrot is between 2433 and 2429 S-Rank (between +250 and 254 points)
* 2423 Medic Mu is equal to 2738 in Scout Kilo (+315 points again)
* 2423 Medic Mu is equal to 2423 Tassadar Charlie and 2423 Medivac Alamo
* 2524 Infestor Pepper is equal to 2398 Lenassa Dixie (+126 points)
* 2520 Infestor Pepper is probably equal to 2394 Medic Mu (LuckyFool's likely score)
* 2616 Augustgrad Psi is equal to 2364 Talematros Eta (+252 points)
* 2631 Urun Charlie is equal to 2379 in S-Rank (+252 points)
* 2513 Feld Lima is between 2390 and 2385 in S-Rank (between +123 and +128 points)
* 2436 Corsair Uncle is between 2313 and 2309 in S-Rank (between +123 and +127 points)
* 2608 Dragoon Sierra is equal to 2293 Medivac Alamo (+315 points)
* 2351 Executor Phi is between 2286 and 2293 in S-Rank (between +58 and 65 points)
* 2354 Argo Echo is between 2286 and 2293 in S-Rank (between +61 and 68 points)
* 2332 Medivac Charlie is between 2272 and 2265 in S-Rank (between +60 and 67 points)

Conclusions:
Because the point modifiers that can be observed from this list are all multiples of 63, (+63, 126, 189, 252, 315) we can conclude that each tier below S-Rank will have a modifier that is a multiple of +63.

Unanswered Questions:
- How does the system determine which division tier a player should be placed? Obviously by MMR, but to what extent?


----------



## DoomDash

As a die hard Final Fantasy VII fan, this was pretty awesome:

  
 You Tube


----------



## rhed5

Thanks for that doom. 
So what exactly are divisions? Do you play primarily players only in your division? Could you change divisions if you do better/worse?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Thanks for that doom. 
So what exactly are divisions? Do you play primarily players only in your division? Could you change divisions if you do better/worse?


No, and no. I've played players from my division twice. You will always stay in the same division. I don't really understand what his post is trying to say yet. It's something along the lines of, if you have a high MMR entering Diamond, you get placed in a better skilled division. So for example my division has some pros like QXC, so I must be awesome ( jk, however mine was listed as S class ).

My friend read the same thing and he said something along the lines of :

(3:14:16 PM) XXX: so you are 2k in S-rank
(3:14:23 PM) XXX: you play someone at 2200 on B rank
(3:14:39 PM) XXX: it actually matches you as 2126(you) vs 2200
(3:14:50 PM) XXX: according to this guy's math and assumption
(3:15:04 PM) XXX: so thats why someone who might be 100+ pts over you is only slightly favored or worse
(3:15:34 PM) XXX: no idea how they decided which divisions are which rank. Also, I would guess that divisions can rank up since there are so many S-class

but again I'm not sure if any of that is true. Which is why I posted it if someone else can figure it out. It's not my strong point comprehending statistics and how complicated ones work







.


----------



## EgoProxy

Somebody called for a marine?


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, and no. I've played players from my division twice. You will always stay in the same division. I don't really understand what his post is trying to say yet. It's something along the lines of, if you have a high MMR entering Diamond, you get placed in a better skilled division. So for example my division has some pros like QXC, so I must be awesome ( jk, however mine was listed as S class ).

My friend read the same thing and he said something along the lines of :

(3:14:16 PM) XXX: so you are 2k in S-rank
(3:14:23 PM) XXX: you play someone at 2200 on B rank
(3:14:39 PM) XXX: it actually matches you as 2126(you) vs 2200
(3:14:50 PM) XXX: according to this guy's math and assumption
(3:15:04 PM) XXX: so thats why someone who might be 100+ pts over you is only slightly favored or worse
(3:15:34 PM) XXX: no idea how they decided which divisions are which rank. Also, I would guess that divisions can rank up since there are so many S-class

but again I'm not sure if any of that is true. Which is why I posted it if someone else can figure it out. It's not my strong point comprehending statistics and how complicated ones work







.


Some friends of mine play 2v2s together. We have never, ever, ever played anyone in our same division. We have never actually even played anyone in our same rank.

One friend and I are gold 2v2. We've never played vs gold. It's always been vs platinum and diamond. Same with another friend and I who are in silver 2v2.










Hating the match system so much right now.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EgoProxy*


-SNIP-


nope


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Some friends of mine play 2v2s together. We have never, ever, ever played anyone in our same division. We have never actually even played anyone in our same rank.

One friend and I are gold 2v2. We've never played vs gold. It's always been vs platinum and diamond. Same with another friend and I who are in silver 2v2.










Hating the match system so much right now.



These two links can explain your situation.

You probably belong in a higher league, but your MMR hasn't evened out yet:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=142211
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=150367


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


These two links can explain your situation.

You probably belong in a higher league, but your MMR hasn't evened out yet:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=142211
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=150367


That or from what I've heard, the system matches you against higher opponents due to being in an arranged team, as in you might both be gold level however, since, you decided to play 2vs2 together, your opponent will have to be a higher level to compete due to the fact that they don't know each other









That thread you posted was odd, what you posted is pretty much what I gathered(some divisions in any league are better than others among other points).

@rhed5 Personally, never played anyone from my division, not even once. Originally, I thought that you get to play against them once you were placed in the division and depending on how much you're winning, etc.... you can get promoted but it doesn't seem to be the case


----------



## DoomDash

OK I think I get it.

Basically re-read that TL post.

I guess when it looks at your rankings for the top 200 specifically, the division modifier is subtracted from your MMR rating. So if you are in a lower rated division like David Kim ( from Bliz ), who is in scout kilo ( a E rated division ), 315 points is subtracted from his MMR when considering top 200 ranks ( which explains why he is always so low ).

At least that's how I currently understand it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK I think I get it.

Basically re-read that TL post.

I guess when it looks at your rankings for the top 200 specifically, the division modifier is subtracted from your MMR rating. So if you are in a lower rated division like David Kim ( from Bliz ), who is in scout kilo ( a E rated division ), 315 points is subtracted from his MMR when considering top 200 ranks ( which explains why he is always so low ).

At least that's how I currently understand it.


Read through the comments and that seems to be on par with what ExcaliburX(sp?) was trying to say, so, for those who didn't get this:
- Divisions have different rankings regardless of the league, so, some are considered S level and then A, B, C, etc.... 
- When they look for the Top 200, they subtract a modifier which is set for each division and which is higher for a lower division(C modifier > B modifier) due to the lower skill level. 
So, S -> 0 modifier
A -> 50 modifier
B -> 100 modifier 
^^ Examples of Division rankings for whatever league you chose
The one thing though is, is it subtracted from MMR or from your points, because, I thought it was from points? 
"We know that the Top 200 *is generated by points *without factoring in "the skill of your division."
"We know that the Top 200* is not based on MMR *or any other factor except points (including bonus used), confirmed at Blizzcon."

Edit: After reading this, it also mentions without factoring skill of your divison, but, isn't that the purpose of the modifier?


----------



## DoomDash

OK well then minus your points.


----------



## burwij

MMR has nothing to do with Top 200, just initial placement.

Here's my thinking:

MMR is used to determine what "class" of division you're placed in when you get promoted to Diamond. If you're in an S-class division, you're immediately facing higher-tier opponents - thus, your wins should be worth the maximum amount. If you're placed into an E-class division on the other hand, you'll start with a lower MMR but will still be gaining points at the same rate as someone in S-class. However, these points have a "tax" attached to them since you're not in the highest tier.

Let's say we both get promoted to Diamond and have 1000 points. You're in S-class and immediately you're really having to fight for your points. Meanwhile, I'm in E-class, and I'm breezing through my first 400 points in Diamond since I'm playing easier opponents. In the end, I've got 1400 points and you've got 1300. However, because of the skill of your opponents relative to mine, your 1300 points are actually worth more than my 1400.

Once each person's rating gets high enough you're basically on even footing, but the initial points you gain right after getting promoted are what define your overall placement.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


MMR has nothing to do with Top 200, just initial placement.

Here's my thinking:

MMR is used to determine what "class" of division you're placed in when you get promoted to Diamond. If you're in an S-class division, you're immediately facing higher-tier opponents - thus, your wins should be worth the maximum amount. If you're placed into an E-class division on the other hand, you'll start with a lower MMR but will still be gaining points at the same rate as someone in S-class. However, these points have a "tax" attached to them since you're not in the highest tier.

Let's say we both get promoted to Diamond and have 1000 points. You're in S-class and immediately you're really having to fight for your points. Meanwhile, I'm in E-class, and I'm breezing through my first 400 points in Diamond since I'm playing easier opponents. In the end, I've got 1400 points and you've got 1300. However, because of the skill of your opponents relative to mine, your 1300 points are actually worth more than my 1400.

Once each person's rating gets high enough you're basically on even footing, but the initial points you gain right after getting promoted are what define your overall placement.


Couldn't have said it better myself!







I'm wondering though if this only applies to diamond or if other leagues get a similar tax even though obviously they won't be in the top 200?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



*On November 18 2010 08:25 Wargizmo wrote:*

Quote:



*On November 18 2010 08:05 DooMDash wrote:*

Quote:



*On November 18 2010 07:58 Wargizmo wrote:*
Excalubur_Z you are ****ing awesome, this means Sc2ranks can actually plug these values into their website and give an accurate rating of the top 200.

And it totally makes sense now why David Kim, who is in Scout Kilo (an E-Rank division) is always way lower in the top 200 than in Sc2 ranks, because his actual rating is always 315 points less than displayed.


So this is how it works? Because this would make sense to me then.

So in theory don't you have an easier time being in the top 200 if you are in these S ranked divisions?


Not really, because when people in an E-class division are placed initially they get given 315 free bonus points, so their rating is always going to be 315 higher than what it should be no matter what. That's why some people lose a ton of points when they get promoted and others don't lose much at all.

If Dayvie for example had been placed in Medic Mu and played exactly the same games as he has done already, then he would have exactly 315 points less now than what he currently has but would be in exactly the same position on the top 200 list (because of the division).



interesting.


----------



## yks

First foreigner to be recruited into a Korean Pro-Team *for Starcraft 2*:
Can you guess who before hitting the spoiler tag?


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



TorcH



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169884


----------



## DoomDash

He's so weak :/.


----------



## turbocharged

Here is a TvT I just played that was pretty close (Teams Even). I am trying to do better to spend my resources, but at least I'm getting my collection rate above 1000 now.

Let me know what you think. I beat him on his 600th League game


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Wait, you want me to go AIR against your basically mass-hydra army? Hydras. Health aside, Hydras, the highest DPS unit in the Zerg arsenal. And you still want me to continue air? That just sounds like you want me to play bad and lose =[ I made the wise choice and tech-switched

VR for DPS? For hit and runs on drones? Who uses VR's to hit and run or as a DPS unit if you don't have high-health units?

*Who continues making Phoenix's when you aren't making mutas? They can harass but do they serve a purpose when it comes crunch time?*

and I'll ignore the mothership and carrier, cause those units are garbage.

Phoenixes are almost always useful in PvZ. A game I played a few days ago, I lifted 4 infestors and charged in my army immediately after so they cant use any FG on them. There were no mutas in the game but i was able to kill some overlords, queens and scout.

And I wouldnt say carrier is garbage. I dont see it being any weaker than it was in SC1 and it was a force in SC1. You just have to know how to use them.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Your blink micro is also really good, my only complaint would be that based on what I saw when you played doom last night, it *seems* a bit slow, probably just more practice needed, but, it's still pretty good. What you can do is just make a ton of stalkers and roaches and then practice blink using the editor. If you practice that scenario enough, you're blink micro will skyrocket. Of course, start with a small number of stalkers and roaches and make more of each as your ability to micro the stalkers increases, otherwise, if you are trying to micro 50 or so and don't have the required level, you'll get overwhelmed








Up for a game or two in 15-20min?









Turn on those health bars. They make blink easy. I think blink is my strongest micro spell in the game. I use it more in team games than 1v1 though.


----------



## banded1

@turbo
lol i liked the guys message at the end


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Turn on those health bars. They make blink easy. I think blink is my strongest micro spell in the game. I use it more in team games than 1v1 though.

Personally, didn't like having them on, just made the game too cluttered(sp?) and made it harder to focus on the actual unit but I can see how they can be beneficial if you are using blink.

Just had a crazy ZvsZ game against a gold Z on Shakuras Plateau. I got the upper hand early on but didn't realize that even though his exp and main were pretty much drone-less and he only had his main left, that he had 2 more bases, so, I concentrated on those and didn't tech up. Next thing you know I'm facing ultras and hydras and it's too late to tech switch, although, I want planning to go BLs if I had the time. The ending is quite surprising, so, I won't spoil anything. Let's just say I was surprised as well








Replay: 

Before anyone mentions this, yes, my creep spread was bad and I should've macroed more as well as upgraded more(did some upgrading) and teched up, but, when you think you got your opponent cornered and you just need to put some pressure on to win, upgrading and teching up seem to be the least of your concern. I guess this goes back to the idea of trying to expand on your advantage which I clearly didn't do








Enjoy!


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I dont see it being as useful for zerg but in small numbers you still want to pull back your injured units. Those health bars are a must if you want to use blink effectively though. Not including queue blinking of course.

EDIT: actually it can be used to let you know when your injected larvae will spawn

Two suggestions I want to make on your replay though during early to mid game (i didnt watch it till the end). You should have had your expo saturated much sooner. And you want to have 2-3 drones per mineral patch for more saturation. I think you had 12 or 13 drones total around the 10-12 min mark mining minerals at your main. 3 drones per patch is a little inefficient but you can transfer them over if anything. You definitely want at least 2 per mineral patch though.


----------



## blackedv

lol a w is a w however it happens


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yea I dont see it being as useful for zerg but in small numbers you still want to pull back your injured units. Those health bars are a must if you want to use blink effectively though. Not including queue blinking of course.

Two suggestions I want to make on your replay though during early to mid game (i didnt watch it till the end). You should have had your expo saturated much sooner. And you want to have 2-3 drones per mineral patch for more saturation. I think you had 12 or 13 drones total around the 10-12 min mark mining minerals at your main. 3 drones per patch is a little inefficient but you can transfer them over if anything. You definitely want at least 2 per mineral patch though.

I agree, my macro was horrible in the game, but, most of that was because I thought that all I had to do was take out his main and didn't realize that he had two other bases, otherwise, I would've attacked those to take out drones and then with no minerals due to the constant harass, it would've been GG. After realizing that he had more bases and that my mutas weren't cutting it against the hydras, I droned pretty hard and macro'd and started teching up to BLs. Infact, while I wasn't at his level in terms of mineral intake, I was creeping up very close and would've went BLs had I had another minute or two, although, the end result is surprising


----------



## ThumperSD

I think you had a window of opportunity before he got those mutas. You got your spire before his so you should definitely try to take advantage of it. I hate that map btw even though it's pretty good for blink abuse. I X'd it out for my 1v1 map preferences =P


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I agree, my macro was horrible in the game, but, most of that was because I thought that all I had to do was take out his main and didn't realize that he had two other bases, otherwise, I would've attacked those to take out drones and then with no minerals due to the constant harass, it would've been GG. After realizing that he had more bases and that my mutas weren't cutting it against the hydras, I droned pretty hard and macro'd and started teching up to BLs. Infact, while I wasn't at his level in terms of mineral intake, I was creeping up very close and would've went BLs had I had another minute or two, although, the end result is surprising










You need me to yell at you IRL to build stuff hah. I do this to my GF and she gets super annoyed ^_^.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169925

FoxeR made a heart out of depots







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blackedv*


lol a w is a w however it happens


While I do agree, I don't feel I earned the win like in my previous games









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I think you had a window of opportunity before he got those mutas. You got your spire before his so you should definitely try to take advantage of it. I hate that map btw even though it's pretty good for blink abuse. I X'd it out for my 1v1 map preferences =P


What happened was that I saw that I was OPing him, so, I decided to keep up the pressure and took down his spire, infestor lair(?), his exp, queen, lots of drones, OLs, etc.... and my macro suffered. I didn't realize he had another 2 bases since I rarely have games where opponents get 4, let alone 3, 2 is what I'm used to seeing, the occassional 3. Had I scouted and attacked those 2 bases, I would've taken this easy, because, they were undefended when I attacked with my mutaling, so, i would've picked off his drones and hatcheries then focused on his main, kinda disappointing I didn't notice, but, mistakes happen









It was interesting talking to him afterwards. I was trying to find out what happened, turns out his internet times out every half hour to an hour and tries to reconnect to b.net but fails. We discussed the game and he gave the useful tips I've heard, although, one thing that he mentioned was how Z expand like crazy in Plat and Diamond considering he was Plat at one point but getting disconnected got him depromoted. Seems 60-70 is the ideal time to start a third or it might've been 100, something to keep in mind









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You need me to yell at you IRL to build stuff hah. I do this to my GF and she gets super annoyed ^_^.


lol, actually, in that game, I kept my money and gas to an all time low, due to the constant pumping of slings+mutas, but, I didn't realize that my main ran out of minerals, so, I had a surplus of gas, but, that was fixed once I moved them to my exp. Also, I had a 2nd hatchery in my base and towards the end of the game, I had 4 bases, so, 5 hatcheries in total. Had I made an ultralisks den, I would've made a couple and with the slings+mutas, take his attack force down


----------



## turbocharged

So, I'm in this game right now where the other player isn't on the map... and hasn't been at all. It gave an error from his name (not sure if he sent it or it was automatically sent) that says "syntax error 1048: player out of sync"

I have typed to him but no response. I do think he is still in the game though because the disconnect time pops up every once and a while...probably checking to see if I have left yet....It has been 1hr and 45 min thus far...but I don't want to leave because he was full favored going into the game.

On a awesome note though...I've been playing around here at Scrap Station by myself and think I maxed out the resource collection rate for this map....10 orbital commands with saturated mineral lines and 40 mules at once







. I'll post a screen shot later.

I also killed everything once everything was mined out and build 198 supply of battle cruisers (33 of them) and got every upgrade in the game.

EDIT: He just left...+46 points for me


----------



## turbocharged

Ok now i feel ******ed...he was in the game the whole time...trying to juke me with this syntax error/not responding and just kept his control center out in the darkness waiting for me to leave. I could have flown any 1 or 33 of my BC's out there and killed him at anytime









I did get this sweet shot of my resource collection rate though







...See him hiding in the darkness...I never thought to explore map for a douche just floating around.


----------



## DoomDash

Vote for SCII fellas http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/86...game-year.html

*EDIT*

For those who play on maxed settings ( on a 1920x1080 monitor ), and have a pretty good PC, play : Facility 17. That **** destroyed my computer from the side view. Will be interesting to see if my 580 does any better.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Ok now i feel ******ed...he was in the game the whole time...trying to juke me with this syntax error/not responding and just kept his control center out in the darkness waiting for me to leave. I could have flown any 1 or 33 of my BC's out there and killed him at anytime









I did get this sweet shot of my resource collection rate though







...See him hiding in the darkness...I never thought to explore map for a douche just floating around.


Epic win man. It happened to me once too. the game started and i went to his base and NOTHING. then I just though, huh, he must have floated to the island. I went straight for mass vikings and landed at the 12'o clock island on scrap station and proceded to deliver the hammer to his face...


----------



## TenaciousRig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Ok now i feel ******ed...he was in the game the whole time...trying to juke me with this syntax error/not responding and just kept his control center out in the darkness waiting for me to leave. I could have flown any 1 or 33 of my BC's out there and killed him at anytime









I did get this sweet shot of my resource collection rate though







...See him hiding in the darkness...I never thought to explore map for a douche just floating around.


Haha I have often wondered if anyone has ever really tried this or not, and if they did has anyone ever fallen for it? Seems like a long shot, and a stupid one at that, but guess this answers my question. Glad you didn't fall for it. New lesson learned...if you think your opponent has had a malfunction but are not sure then just build up and mess around till you get the victory screen or you find that fool.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

This happened to one of my friends a few weeks back, and he raged hard. I think he reported the guy because he was so pissed when he finally found his CC in a corner.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Ok now i feel ******ed...he was in the game the whole time...trying to juke me with this syntax error/not responding and just kept his control center out in the darkness waiting for me to leave. I could have flown any 1 or 33 of my BC's out there and killed him at anytime









I did get this sweet shot of my resource collection rate though







...See him hiding in the darkness...I never thought to explore map for a douche just floating around.


Rofl look at it this way, he wasted 2 hours for nothing, you at least got points from it









And you should report him for faking a game error.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Rofl look at it this way, he wasted 2 hours for nothing, you at least got points from it









And you should report him for faking a game error.


Remember this happened to Ryman and he came raging in vent? Then we were like "hurr durr scout your corners". That was hilarious.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *turbocharged*


Ok now i feel ******ed...he was in the game the whole time...trying to juke me with this syntax error/not responding and just kept his control center out in the darkness waiting for me to leave. I could have flown any 1 or 33 of my BC's out there and killed him at anytime









I did get this sweet shot of my resource collection rate though







...See him hiding in the darkness...I never thought to explore map for a douche just floating around.



















I've never had that happen before, but, I mean if you didn't get the win screen, then there is something wrong, likely a structure you missed. A quick scout around the map always help, just make a viking or medivac due to its speed and start from the corner, then shift+move to each corner and keep making the square closer. Just make sure to keep an eye on it and use the ground to speed up the checking


----------



## EgoProxy

Alright, guys. Here's another PsyStarcraft Roflstomp and live commentary on himself. Psy and excellent commentary and analysis as usual.


You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Most epic / closest 2v2 I've played in my life ( including BW/SC1 ).



We both could have played better to counter that build of our opponents, but considering how clutch it was at the end it was still amazing.

I normally don't post play 2v2's much less post them, but this game was nuts.


----------



## DoomDash

I also finally have a really good Zerg practice partner. Good because I need the help, and so does he. He is 1800 Diamond from another forum I post on. I had to explain to him the power of Ultras, because he said they sucked. After telling him to use them, this is what he had to say:

"And thanks for teaching me about power of the ultra vs thor
damn didn't think it would plow though everything like that."


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I also finally have a really good Zerg practice partner. Good because I need the help, and so does he. He is 1800 Diamond from another forum I post on. I had to explain to him the power of Ultras, because he said they sucked. After telling him to use them, this is what he had to say:

"And thanks for teaching me about power of the ultra vs thor
damn didn't think it would plow though everything like that."

Congrats I guess


----------



## Darkknight512

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 


Erm, hello there
Nope that's not me, just playing with you, diff character code, I want my 512 and unique ID back =(


----------



## banded1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Most epic / closest 2v2 I've played in my life ( including BW/SC1 ).

We both could have played better to counter that build of our opponents, but considering how clutch it was at the end it was still amazing.

I normally don't post play 2v2's much less post them, but this game was nuts.

intense game, you guys got a bit lucky, i think, lol. you shouldnt have waited around so long for your partner to get his base up again. i would have gone after the terran as soon as i saw buildings going up


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Most epic / closest 2v2 I've played in my life ( including BW/SC1 ).



We both could have played better to counter that build of our opponents, but considering how clutch it was at the end it was still amazing.

I normally don't post play 2v2's much less post them, but this game was nuts.

that dumbass terran forgot he could've built marines and blue helions vs hydras and your army when he was banked on 5k minerals while mass producing banshees. What a waste loosing all those banshee.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
that dumbass terran forgot he could've built marines and blue helions vs hydras and your army when he was banked on 5k minerals while mass producing banshees. What a waste loosing all those banshee.

Interesting, hydras might have high dps, but, hellions with blue flame upgrade should fry a decent amount due to splash and the fact that they are mineral only units


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


that dumbass terran forgot he could've built marines and blue helions vs hydras and your army when he was banked on 5k minerals while mass producing banshees. What a waste loosing all those banshee.


I'm not sure Hellions would have been the right idea, but he was banking on us not having detectors pretty hard that's for sure. The only problem with Hellions would have been my Marauders with concussive shells.. if I caught him he would have been slowed and perhaps lost them all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


intense game, you guys got a bit lucky, i think, lol. you shouldnt have waited around so long for your partner to get his base up again. i would have gone after the terran as soon as i saw buildings going up










Well that's what I would have tried but my partner played 2v2's all the time and I do not, so I just let him decide. Plus I don't really care about 2v2's.


----------



## DoomDash

Hey guys, I linked an article to TL that was a very good PvZ guide a week ago ( here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=167992 ). Guess who I ran into today? Twice!





I don't win both wink wink. Excuses : My hands were cold







. Well it wouldn't have mattered much. He was nice enough to let me pause and turn my heat up







.

Also finally hit 1900.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Need help as Protoss defending against Roach rush Zerg.
Zergs seem to be cutting drones at just after 20 and sending Roaches and I can't defend against it.
Any help is appreciated.


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Need help as Protoss defending against Roach rush Zerg.
Zergs seem to be cutting drones at just after 20 and sending Roaches and I can't defend against it.
Any help is appreciated.




Use sentires to split the roaches up into manageable groups. Two stalkers, two zealots and two sentries against 7 roaches is in the protoss players favor if he traps the roaches on the ramp. The key is to keep them from getting a surround on your units while you hit them from outside their range.

You can also jump right off into immortals and they absolutely destroy roaches. If you can get three stalkers, an immortal and a sentry or two, 7 roaches die in the blink of an eye.

Also... protip - use the sentries to split 3 of the roaches off to your units, zealots to trap them on the ramp, then stick another ff right behind the first to push the rest of the roaches out of range. Works like a charm to get your 6 units versus 3 of his.


----------



## BigFan

double post, see below.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Need help as Protoss defending against Roach rush Zerg.
Zergs seem to be cutting drones at just after 20 and sending Roaches and I can't defend against it.
Any help is appreciated.




Haven't seen it yet, but, I'll watch it a bit later. What I've seen helps from both a zerg and a protoss perspective is to first cut up the army size. FFing the ramp, etc.... Getting stalkers helps because you can pick them off using the range and kite them, albeit its a bit harder to do due to the roach new range of 4, but, it's doable. Getting some zealot is a good idea *provided* you make sure that they can't be kited by the roaches(ffing ramp or behind them). You can also go forge with gateway and lay down 2 cannons which along with a sentry ffing ramp can probably hold until you get wrap in more stalkers







Forgot to mention, going 2 gateway+robo is great because you can use sentry to split up army along with 2 stalkers and one immortals easily take down the force. Immortals are great against roaches and I've lost many games due to them, so, I would make a couple(2-3) with your stalkers+sentries


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Haven't seen it yet, but, I'll watch it a bit later. What I've seen helps from both a zerg and a protoss perspective is to first cut up the army size. FFing the ramp, etc.... Getting stalkers helps because you can pick them off using the range and kite them, albeit its a bit harder to do due to the roach new range of 4, but, it's doable. Getting some zealot is a good idea *provided* you make sure that they can't be kited by the roaches(ffing ramp or behind them). You can also go forge with gateway and lay down 2 cannons which along with a sentry ffing ramp can probably hold until you get wrap in more stalkers







Forgot to mention, going 2 gateway+robo is great because you can use sentry to split up army along with 2 stalkers and one immortals easily take down the force. Immortals are great against roaches and I've lost many games due to them, so, I would make a couple(2-3) with your stalkers+sentries










Just to note... to make sure your robo is done before the roaches arrive, do 1g -> cyber -> robo -> 2g

Your robo will be done with just enough time to get the immortal out if you chrono the immortal production. The important thing is to make sure you save chrono not for probes, but unit production if you see early roaches.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Use sentires to split the roaches up into manageable groups. Two stalkers, two zealots and two sentries against 7 roaches is in the protoss players favor if he traps the roaches on the ramp. The key is to keep them from getting a surround on your units while you hit them from outside their range.

You can also jump right off into immortals and they absolutely destroy roaches. If you can get three stalkers, an immortal and a sentry or two, 7 roaches die in the blink of an eye.

Also... protip - use the sentries to split 3 of the roaches off to your units, zealots to trap them on the ramp, then stick another ff right behind the first to push the rest of the roaches out of range. Works like a charm to get your 6 units versus 3 of his.


The double FF trick is risky early game as you might not have that many FFs to start with. More and more zerg players are going very early roach, so you need to use your FFs wisely and place them perfectly. If you run out of FF and let some zerglings in, gg.

If you scout roach early, send out your first stalkers early as they can shield kite roaches quite well and deter the opponent.

Also make sure to FF once he's well committed to walking up the ramp. Good players will fake this and you'll waste a precious FF.


----------



## Twistacles

7RR can be very problematic if you don't know how to react to it, but when you do it is pretty easy. Generally, I open 1gateCyver vs zerg. If, by this point, he is still ONEBASING and has gas, chances are he's going for a 7 Roach Rush. In this case, just make sure you get sentries out and drop a robo. Chronoboost that immortal out. If they arrived before the immo, forcefield to buy yourself time. One immo literally shuts down the entire push. Of course, maybe other units in the meantime. (Stalkers, Zealots, Sentries)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Just to note... to make sure your robo is done before the roaches arrive, do 1g -> cyber -> robo -> 2g

Your robo will be done with just enough time to get the immortal out if you chrono the immortal production. The important thing is to make sure you save chrono not for probes, but unit production if you see early roaches.


True, chronoboosting your immortal as well as some of your stalkers+sentries which will help a lot and can save you from a quick loss.


----------



## murderbymodem

Heads up to ATI users, 10.11 seems to have brought back the distorted cursor issue with Starcraft 2. I didn't see it at all when I was on 10.10d.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xserpint*


Use sentires to split the roaches up into manageable groups. Two stalkers, two zealots and two sentries against 7 roaches is in the protoss players favor if he traps the roaches on the ramp. The key is to keep them from getting a surround on your units while you hit them from outside their range.

You can also jump right off into immortals and they absolutely destroy roaches. If you can get three stalkers, an immortal and a sentry or two, 7 roaches die in the blink of an eye.

Also... protip - use the sentries to split 3 of the roaches off to your units, zealots to trap them on the ramp, then stick another ff right behind the first to push the rest of the roaches out of range. Works like a charm to get your 6 units versus 3 of his.


Unless you really delay your warp gate tech, you wont have 2 stalkers/2 zealots/2 sentries when he has 7 roaches


----------



## xHassassin

Anyone know the build order for the new zealot achivement? The build time boost made the 6 probe 1 gate way impossible.


----------



## Tommie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Need help as Protoss defending against Roach rush Zerg.
Zergs seem to be cutting drones at just after 20 and sending Roaches and I can't defend against it.
Any help is appreciated.




Cutting drones xD
When you make units, you are always cutting drones.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski* 
Need help as Protoss defending against Roach rush Zerg.
Zergs seem to be cutting drones at just after 20 and sending Roaches and I can't defend against it.
Any help is appreciated.



That was a really late roach rush. You should have warp gates up before 6 mins. A good zerg would get their 7RR before 5 min, before you get warp gates. Get zealot then sentry first. Use your sentry to block your ramp. Research warp gates AS SOON as your cyber finishes unless you tech straight to a a stargate or something.


----------



## yks

Finally, I am back, 3 days of no starcraft is =[! Practice games tonight, anyone?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Finally, I am back, 3 days of no starcraft is =[! Practice games tonight, anyone?

I'm up







I'll be on in 1-2 hours







I understand your pain, lol, I'm only playing 1 game a day for the last week or so and it's not good for improving my skills









Edit: I should probably mention that one of the games today that I played, I droned like crazy and had 2 bases saturated with a third having drones getting gas and some minerals. My biggest mistake was letting him mass colossi+stalkers and making mutas a little too late, otherwise, I would've taken that battle







You can probably guess I lost


----------



## yks

Got 15 minutes to spare?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=170408

Probably the sickest team-house video i've seen.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Finally, I am back, 3 days of no starcraft is =[! Practice games tonight, anyone?

Im down, maybe we can do some obs games


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Im down, maybe we can do some obs games

obs games? I know obs likely stands for observer but not sure if that's what you meant


----------



## ThumperSD

Yess... we can do 1v1 and have everyone else observe or something


----------



## Katana

Man, I'm playing through the campaign, and just slowly realizing how many new units there are. I'm kinda surprised vultures are still around; still seem a bit useless to me.

Coming up with an adequate strategy is going to be difficult now that I can't just spam one unit.


----------



## BigFan

^^ Vultures aren't around in MP, only SP. They added them so that you have more strategies and get to use more units in SP. Adding them into MP would've ruined it due to too many units and it would've become unbalanced









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Yess... we can do 1v1 and have everyone else observe or something

Nice, I'll be on in a while, hope to see you guys there


----------



## BigFan

yks, ThumperSD, how come you guys aren't on? Was thinking we can do some 1vs1 and rotate around so that we all get to play and observer as well


----------



## ThumperSD

Not home atm... will be on later for sure though


----------



## jadenx2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Got 15 minutes to spare?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=170408

Probably the sickest team-house video i've seen.

yeah good video, but that guys voice is really annoying.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Finally, I am back, 3 days of no starcraft is =[!

I know the feeling, lol. I've been playing Black Ops all week - fyi, playing a tournament league match after 8 days of not playing SC2 is generally a bad idea









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana* 
Coming up with an adequate strategy is going to be difficult now that I can't just spam one unit.

There's a guy on the TL forums that is doing a Brutal No-Upgrade Run (NUR) while only making marines - no medics, no stimpack, etc., with only zealots on the protoss levels. Surprisingly, he's on the last level.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=155237


----------



## DoomDash

This thread is almost off the first page of the PC games section, tisk tisk.

So I'm pretty busy today, but we should play tomorrow ( oc people! ).


----------



## deanlewandowski

Wow. Everyone wants to play Zerg now apparently.
6/7 of my last matches have been against Zerg. Before it was more like 1/10.


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg is the "hot" race now. Used to be Terran, and before that Protoss.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Wow. Everyone wants to play Zerg now apparently.
6/7 of my last matches have been against Zerg. Before it was more like 1/10.


All i ever play in bronze league is terran...which is the only race I lose regularly too


----------



## Darkknight512

Anyone wanna play sometime? Silver 2v2, Darkknight 904


----------



## jadenx2

any plat/diamond players want to do some 2s?


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jadenx2*


any plat/diamond players want to do some 2s?


I could. Im Nevaziah, 101

Logging in now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


There's a guy on the TL forums that is doing a Brutal No-Upgrade Run (NUR) while only making marines - no medics, no stimpack, etc., with only zealots on the protoss levels. Surprisingly, he's on the last level.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=155237


Nice, maybe i should try that although i would likely go MMM in all my games, definitely a motivater to play the campaign again









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This thread is almost off the first page of the PC games section, tisk tisk.

So I'm pretty busy today, but we should play tomorrow ( oc people! ).


lol, there are only several people posting, it's a shame considering how active this thread was just a week ago, seems some people have abandoned us









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Zerg is the "hot" race now. Used to be Terran, and before that Protoss.


I'm going to come out I say it, I wish people would knock it off, I don't mean you, I meant that people keep switching to whatever race is FoTM, it's just annoying, since, they aren't being loyal to the race that they chose in the first place. I originally wanted to play random but chose zerg because they were considered UP and I like the swarm idea as well as the different units. Will I go back to random? Possibly, but, not before my T and P skills are on par with how I play Z, since, I don't want to get depromoted to bronze from such a move









Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


Wow. Everyone wants to play Zerg now apparently.
6/7 of my last matches have been against Zerg. Before it was more like 1/10.


hmm, it could be depending on what your map preference is. Once I played against T like 10+ games in a row to the point where I'm now confident that I can take on any silver terran easily. On the other hand, I haven't had many games where I played against P and as a result, I don't play as well as I used to against them. Against zerg, it's always a 50/50 chance of winning. Originally, I used to tried to exp, but, quickly learned that it's a bad idea







and the last 2 zerg games I played, I won both, given the last one that I won, my opponent's internet caused him to disconnect.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkknight512*


Anyone wanna play sometime? Silver 2v2, Darkknight 904


I'll add you and we can get a couple rolling sometime


----------



## banded1

anyone on in the next little bit?
i'll be signing in like right now


----------



## banded1

i finished placement league... it put me in silver...
i dont feel i have the skills for silver


----------



## BigFan

Curious, what do you guys think of the mothership? Personally, while I would love to see planet cracker, black hole and time freeze or whatever it was called to come back, they would be too OP especially black hole with the whole "I'm going to suck ALL of your units in







".
Interesting thread to read: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...823601?page=12

Personally, I think it's a great unit if you use it because of it's passive cloak as well as being able to recall your army from a losing battle or recalling them into your opponent's base. My only concern is that it moves rather slow and I think adding that time freeze would make for an interesting ability, kinda like the marauder's concussive shell but its a large radius, of course, only movement is affected, not attack, otherwise, imagine laying down one right in the middle of an army, can someone say pwnage?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
i finished placement league... it put me in silver...
i dont feel i have the skills for silver

Why not? I was put in Silver as well and trying to work my way up to Gold now







Hopefully, soon enough, I'll get to diamond and move even higher


----------



## banded1

im still pretty slow lol i think my APM is like 30 usually (i know apm isnt everything). i dont know all the little trick of the trade yet. i would have expected going 3-2 in placement would be bronze status. the two games i lost, i got walk all over. im still having problems with early rushes. especially zerg

i did have a nice comeback though in one game. the guy broke in with zerglings and kills all but 5 SCV's and i managed to bounce back and win. he didnt expand though. he tried one basing me. i think after the rush went so well he was in "im gonna win" mode and thought it would take one more push to finish me.


----------



## sora1607

I need help against this build. Please take a look at my replay and tell me *** I can do. I have attempted to go bunch of infestors in another round and could not break him still.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
i finished placement league... it put me in silver...
i dont feel i have the skills for silver

The game does a pretty solid job of figuring out your skill level and matching you against opponents so that you have a fighting chance. While the first 5 games are just a rough estimate, the system continues to hone in on your "true" skill level with each game you play. This hidden skill rating (matchmaking rating, MMR) is what's used to find opponents when you queue up.

In the end, the only way to find out whether or not the system was right is to play some games. There really isn't much of a skill difference between mid/upper Bronze and most of Silver, and in some cases it's harder trying to claw your way out of Bronze than it is playing in Silver.

I was in the same boat as you - throughout the last couple of months of beta I bounced around between B/S/G, but when I did my 1v1 placement matches I went 4-1 and got put in Platinum. I figured I was in way over my head, but I ended up getting promoted to Diamond a month or so later.


----------



## ThumperSD

I played a game earlier today against a really good zerg player. I was hanging in there until mutas came out







... His APM was off the charts too

This is one of the best zerg players I have played against so far

Replay:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-lost-temple


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube





EPIC.


----------



## banded1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


The game does a pretty solid job of figuring out your skill level and matching you against opponents so that you have a fighting chance. While the first 5 games are just a rough estimate, the system continues to hone in on your "true" skill level with each game you play. This hidden skill rating (matchmaking rating, MMR) is what's used to find opponents when you queue up.

In the end, the only way to find out whether or not the system was right is to play some games. There really isn't much of a skill difference between mid/upper Bronze and most of Silver, and in some cases it's harder trying to claw your way out of Bronze than it is playing in Silver.

I was in the same boat as you - throughout the last couple of months of beta I bounced around between B/S/G, but when I did my 1v1 placement matches I went 4-1 and got put in Platinum. I figured I was in way over my head, but I ended up getting promoted to Diamond a month or so later.


the only problem is that i played two zerg guys who tried one basing me through my placement. obviously their opening was the usually stuff but you could definitely see the effects of not expanding. after their initial rush they basically had nothing left in the tank for the rest of the game. one guy only had like 10 drones on minerals so he was obviously pretty new


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I played a game earlier today against a really good zerg player. I was hanging in there until mutas came out







... His APM was off the charts too

This is one of the best zerg players I have played against so far

Replay:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-lost-temple


That guy was really good. Only criticism I have is he didn't put any spinecrawlers in front of his natural. Lost Temple is a perfect map for that. Just using lings and drones for early defense didn't work very well and wasn't cost-effective either.


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh...eature=recentu

EPIC.


Great post.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


That guy was really good. Only criticism I have is he didn't put any spinecrawlers in front of his natural. Lost Temple is a perfect map for that. Just using lings and drones for early defense didn't work very well and wasn't cost-effective either.


Yea I think he hesitated to throw up crawlers because we were spawned at cross positions and he thought he was safe. I was able to take down his natural twice but couldnt take advantage of it. He just kept trading armies and that's not a good sign for protoss.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh...eature=recentu

EPIC.


Does Husky even play Terran?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Yea I think he hesitated to throw up crawlers because we were spawned at cross positions and he thought he was safe. I was able to take down his natural twice but couldnt take advantage of it. He just kept trading armies and that's not a good sign for protoss.


It was amazing that he could keep throwing units away after losing two hatcheries. Awesome macro. Not having crawlers was a pretty bad mistake but he was such a good player that he recovered easily. I think he would have rolf-stomped if he had put down crawlers early.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh...eature=recentu

EPIC.


EPIC EPIC. Husky's part made that video lmao.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Does Husky even play Terran?










Probably in 2v2+.

Anyway, I had another ****ty day of lattering 0-4 my first 4 matches against Zerg. Lucky for me the 5th game vs Zerg I spawned Steps of War so I did manage to win that one with Banshee to BC.

Ended the day 2-4, 3 points less than where I started. The last game I played was a 40 minute Terran vs Terran that is literally using every ounce of mental energy I had left. Seriously guys, if you don't play Terran, I can't even tell you how insane this match up is. I think I will post my ladder "replay of the day" from now on, since I ladder in bursts.

Today's is the said TvT. Some of you probably don't like TvT but for those who are interested the game is nuts







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


It was amazing that he could keep throwing units away after losing two hatcheries. Awesome macro. Not having crawlers was a pretty bad mistake but he was such a good player that he recovered easily. I think he would have rolf-stomped if he had put down crawlers early.


Agreed about the crawlers especially if he can get them up in time. This guy was owning 2500+ diamonds. Really good zerg macro.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Probably in 2v2+.

Anyway, I had another ****ty day of lattering 0-4 my first 4 matches against Zerg. Lucky for me the 5th game vs Zerg I spawned Steps of War so I did manage to win that one with Banshee to BC.

Ended the day 2-4, 3 points less than where I started. The last game I played was a 40 minute Terran vs Terran that is literally using every ounce of mental energy I had left. Seriously guys, if you don't play Terran, I can't even tell you how insane this match up is. I think I will post my ladder "replay of the day" from now on, since I ladder in bursts.

Today's is the said TvT. Some of you probably don't like TvT but for those who are interested the game is nuts







.




TvT is probably the most flexible mirror matchup. Did you X out the long distance 1v1 ladder maps? It's a huge advantage against zerg


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


TvT is probably the most flexible mirror matchup. Did you X out the long distance 1v1 ladder maps? It's a huge advantage against zerg


No I don't X out the Zerg favored maps because I want to be strong in the match up in all situations some day. I know I make it harder on myself but if I can't beat them at their own game then I will never be consistent in a tournament or something.


----------



## Vispor

So. I finally broke down and bought SC2. However I have hit a brick wall trying to get this thing to work right.

For some reason, the updater is stuck in a loop. It can't connect to the blizzard site and confirm the installation was done correctly. Log is as follows:

#-----------------------------------------------------------
# System started at 2010-11-21 20:56:49.8684
# system: ECTOWARE
#-----------------------------------------------------------
20:56:49.8688 Launcher version 2.1.2.1558
20:57:05.9653 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?locale=en-US'

#-----------------------------------------------------------
# System started at 2010-11-21 20:57:11.7335
# system: ECTOWARE
#-----------------------------------------------------------
20:57:11.7337 Launcher version 2.1.2.1890
20:57:28.0395 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
20:59:39.3099 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:01:19.4001 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:02:31.5191 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:03:30.0605 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:04:20.2166 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:05:42.5860 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:06:49.3488 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:07:17.1479 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'

I think I have something blocking it, but I don't use anti-virus nor any type of firewalls. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No I don't X out the Zerg favored maps because I want to be strong in the match up in all situations some day. I know I make it harder on myself but if I can't beat them at their own game then I will never be consistent in a tournament or something.


Definitely


----------



## xHassassin

Blizzard site might be down. Try again in a few hours?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vispor*


So. I finally broke down and bought SC2. However I have hit a brick wall trying to get this thing to work right.

For some reason, the updater is stuck in a loop. It can't connect to the blizzard site and confirm the installation was done correctly. Log is as follows:

#-----------------------------------------------------------
# System started at 2010-11-21 20:56:49.8684
# system: ECTOWARE
#-----------------------------------------------------------
20:56:49.8688 Launcher version 2.1.2.1558
20:57:05.9653 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?locale=en-US'

#-----------------------------------------------------------
# System started at 2010-11-21 20:57:11.7335
# system: ECTOWARE
#-----------------------------------------------------------
20:57:11.7337 Launcher version 2.1.2.1890
20:57:28.0395 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
20:59:39.3099 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:01:19.4001 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:02:31.5191 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:03:30.0605 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:04:20.2166 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:05:42.5860 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:06:49.3488 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'
21:07:17.1479 Time-out while loading patch notes from 'http://us.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-US'

I think I have something blocking it, but I don't use anti-virus nor any type of firewalls. Thanks in advance.


I had this problem during beta. Did you try restarting? It fixed the problem for me

Peerblock/peerguardian can also cause this problem


----------



## Vispor

I fixed it. Had a problem with an old hack. Thanks for the fast reply though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vispor*


Had a problem with an old hack.


----------



## NrGx

I'm probably very late to the party but...that Banelings vid is awesome.


----------



## DoomDash

Nah I just posted it today, and it was just posted today on his channel.


----------



## Twistacles

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


im still pretty slow lol i think my APM is like 30 usually (i know apm isnt everything). i dont know all the little trick of the trade yet. i would have expected going 3-2 in placement would be bronze status. the two games i lost, i got walk all over. im still having problems with early rushes. especially zerg

i did have a nice comeback though in one game. the guy broke in with zerglings and kills all but 5 SCV's and i managed to bounce back and win. he didnt expand though. he tried one basing me. i think after the rush went so well he was in "im gonna win" mode and thought it would take one more push to finish me.


Well, APM is important but it's also about what you are doing as well. You can have 200 apm but if it's all spam, than other than preparing yourself for a quick defense, etc.... it *can* be considered useless, since, there aren't other benefits. Mine hovers around mid 60s, but, I've had 82 average as my best before against another Zerg. It'll increase as you play more so don't worry about it. Just play more games and don't be worried about losing. I've lost countless games to MM when I wasn't using banes and I would've won a majority of those games.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I played a game earlier today against a really good zerg player. I was hanging in there until mutas came out







... His APM was off the charts too

This is one of the best zerg players I have played against so far

Replay:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-lost-temple


Thanks for reply, will look at later









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Probably in 2v2+.

Anyway, I had another ****ty day of lattering 0-4 my first 4 matches against Zerg. Lucky for me the 5th game vs Zerg I spawned Steps of War so I did manage to win that one with Banshee to BC.

Ended the day 2-4, 3 points less than where I started. The last game I played was a 40 minute Terran vs Terran that is literally using every ounce of mental energy I had left. Seriously guys, if you don't play Terran, I can't even tell you how insane this match up is. I think I will post my ladder "replay of the day" from now on, since I ladder in bursts.

Today's is the said TvT. Some of you probably don't like TvT but for those who are interested the game is nuts







.




Thanks for reply. Contrary to popular belief, I think all matches including mirror matches can be interesting. I agree TvsT can be insane, but, so can ZvsZ especially with the constant sling+bling battles and the constant pressure. If I may venture a guess, I would say it would improve my game drastically if I play against zerg opponents only for a while due to the constant need to micro while macroing and teching up









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


TvT is probably the most flexible mirror matchup. Did you X out the long distance 1v1 ladder maps? *It's a huge advantage against zerg*


lol, maybe it's just me, but, I've *never* won on maps like Shakuras Plateau even though the rush distance favours zerg. The one game that I remember that I lost on that map was against a T who attacked with just marines. I defended the push and used some spine crawlers and started to get banes but he had enough marines to negate my forces and then started adding in marauders by the time he took out my exp







I should add that scrap station was a map that I didn't like as well even though it favours zerg, although, my win rate has recently spiked in it even against other zerg opponents


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, APM is important but it's also about what you are doing as well. You can have 200 apm but if it's all spam, than other than preparing yourself for a quick defense, etc.... it *can* be considered useless, since, there aren't other benefits. Mine hovers around mid 60s, but, I've had 82 average as my best before against another Zerg. It'll increase as you play more so don't worry about it. Just play more games and don't be worried about losing. I've lost countless games to MM when I wasn't using banes and I would've won a majority of those games.

Thanks for reply, will look at later









Thanks for reply. Contrary to popular belief, I think all matches including mirror matches can be interesting. I agree TvsT can be insane, but, so can ZvsZ especially with the constant sling+bling battles and the constant pressure. If I may venture a guess, I would say it would improve my game drastically if I play against zerg opponents only for a while due to the constant need to micro while macroing and teching up









lol, maybe it's just me, but, I've *never* won on maps like Shakuras Plateau even though the rush distance favours zerg. The one game that I remember that I lost on that map was against a T who attacked with just marines. I defended the push and used some spine crawlers and started to get banes but he had enough marines to negate my forces and then started adding in marauders by the time he took out my exp







I should add that scrap station was a map that I didn't like as well even though it favours zerg, although, my win rate has recently spiked in it even against other zerg opponents










Yeah my apm is ~60 when at rest and doing regular macro stuff, and jumps to like 200 when I'm doing both macro/micro. Most of it is spam though since I'm freaking out. I gotta learn how to macro in parts, not just spend a whole 30 seconds every minute or so at my base doing upgrades/making supply depos when I have an army in the field.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, maybe it's just me, but, I've *never* won on maps like Shakuras Plateau even though the rush distance favours zerg. The one game that I remember that I lost on that map was against a T who attacked with just marines. I defended the push and used some spine crawlers and started to get banes but he had enough marines to negate my forces and then started adding in marauders by the time he took out my exp







I should add that scrap station was a map that I didn't like as well even though it favours zerg, although, my win rate has recently spiked in it even against other zerg opponents










That's probably because you need lots of work on your macro. The entire reason Z is so good on those maps is because it's easy to get away with expanding / droning. Maps like steps of war are are like one skip to your nat for tanks / terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's probably because you need lots of work on your macro. The entire reason Z is so good on those maps is because it's easy to get away with expanding / droning. Maps like steps of war are are like one skip to your nat for tanks / terran.


Well, I think it's specifically Shaukras Plateau that I lose in, as in I've won games on Scrap Station and lost some games on it as well, but, I've never ever won a game on Shaukras Plateau regardless if I had the upper hand and was pressuring my opponent. It's almost like a mental block now that I'll lose if the map is selected, either way, I'll still be playing it







Yes, I do need work on my macro, but, that's only because sometimes I'll build more units than I need to deal with a rush attack.

One of my recent games I did quite the opposite. I concentrated on my macro and started getting upgrades, etc.... I had 55 drones on 3 bases, 2 of them somewhat saturated and the 3rd I was getting gas and a couple of drones were mining. I scouted his base with some forces massed, so, I made some units(hydras+roaches) and decided to mass slings to do a quick attack since I had a lot of resources. Turns out he decided to attack just then and I realized it a little too late, so, I wasn't able to mass units and I lost


----------



## yks

Okay, I lied, I wasn't back.

But NOW, I am officially back. 6 days of no Starcraft 2 is like T_T

But on the good news, GSL 3 Starting today!~!~!!

On the not-so-surprising news, Zerg won the GOM All-Star tournament, Kyrix (top8 GSL2 i believe) Foxer @ Second! Knocking out FruitDealer again.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Okay, I lied, I wasn't back.

But NOW, I am officially back. 6 days of no Starcraft 2 is like T_T

But on the good news, GSL 3 Starting today!~!~!!

On the not-so-surprising news, Zerg won the GOM All-Star tournament, Kyrix (top8 GSL2 i believe) Foxer @ Second! Knocking out FruitDealer again.

Umm spoilers? Please hide that information next time







. Where can I watch this?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Umm spoilers? Please hide that information next time







. Where can I watch this?

Agreed!


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



kinda disappointing that FD lost to foxer again, he seriously needs to start changing that strat maybe a pool before exp or something or a couple of crawlers to ward off early harass with some lings. Do you guys think this would be viable? I would assume so even though his eco won't be as good as if he went 15 exp 14 pool


----------



## Epona

Got reported by a guy who got mad at me for doing a 13 barracks build. So funny.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Epona* 
Got reported by a guy who got mad at me for doing a 13 barracks build. So funny.

lol, assuming this was a team game?


----------



## Nihilist

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nihilist* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY

A little too late, was posted a day ago







Just listened to it, interesting paradoy though









You know, I'm starting to get really annoyed at SC2 freezing. Haven't had it in a while, so, was hoping that the latest patch somehow fixed it(didn't have any before patch #1) but it happened tonight. I just finished the game, clicked the score screen and the game froze. I just lost another valuable replay which I'm dying to watch









On the other hand, the game I played was against a P. It seems that *every* protoss that I've played against now puts a pylon in my exp, really annoying to take out so I usually leave it till I get zlings. I'm starting to wonder when every Terran is going to start putting an engineering bay in my exp







In this case, I scouted his base and he had a cc being chronoboosted and 2 more gateways inbound which likely means wrapgate tech and possibly 4 gate or more. I have to say that I was so close to losing that game, but, I was constantly making units during the battle which helped a lot. He had me boxed me in early, but, I slipped a drone before I was boxed in and got an exp on the gold minerals, so, I had 2 bases, although, the gold wasn't saturated.

He kept on constantly harassing my base. To give an idea of his attacks, since, I have no replay







, he used a zealot+sentry+stalker combo for starters and when I attacked with my roaches+slings+2 queens, he used his 8-10 sentries to make a line of ffs blocking my slings and only allowing some of my roaches to fire. During this time, I just kept producing units and was able to get him to retreat albeit I lost most of my army. Then he came again this time with 2 immortals, by then, I had about 11 mutas and proceeded to attack his main(he had at least 6-7 wrapgates there) but retreated once he attacked and focus fired his immortals with mutas. I was really close to losing at this point, because, my army was wiped out again other than my mutas and he still had some stalkers left and then brought in 7+ zealots. I kept making slings throughout and was able to make him retreat after losing my pool. At this point, I decided to do some harass taking down some pylons powering his gates in the process. Then I went base raiding with some slings+remaining mutas









After taking down a decent number of probes and the stalkers that just wraped in, he gg'd and left. An interesting thing to note is that he had 3 bases compared to my 2 and was building more gateways when I attacked, so, I think attacking then and there was a good idea instead of waiting for him to mass. There are a couple of interesting things I've noticed which might help those who play zerg or any other race:

1. Most players on scrap station don't check the gold exp until its too late. This guy checked for an exp near my base after destroying those destrucible debris but didn't realize my gold exp until much later, after I almost mined out all the minerals which was the main reason I was able to stay in the fight, because, I was able to constantly produce slings, roaches and mutas due to having a huge mineral surplus. Yes, I know, it's a risky move because if it's discovered, that exp is as good as gone but you just have to take some risky moves in some games. Had I not taken it, I would've lost guaranteed, because, my base was eventually mined out and the gas from the gold helped in muta cost.

2. Spine crawlers(photo cannons in same boat) help a lot and I can't stress this enough. It has nothing to do with their mobility although it's a nice ability, but, more to do with having high hp with decent damage(35 vs. armored) for a low cost. I'm finding that throwing down 2 of them helped immensely since even if they are taken out, my units have had a chance to tear through some of the army as well as doing some decent damage against stalkers if they aren't taken out and most protoss mass stalkers with some other units thrown in.

3. Building a 2nd hatchery inbase. Not sure why I never did this, but, in my last couple of games I've started buildong one, since, I always had a surplus of minerals and it helps a ton especially when you need the units like in this match. Had I not built it in this game, I would've lost for sure, since, one hatch with no queen(took both mine out) means only 3 larvae at max.

4. Using the high ground to your advantage. He built a pylon near where those debris were so I used my roaches to take a couple of shots on some zealots wraping in, some stalkers and took down the pylon before scrambling back to my base to fend off his attack. Risky? Definitely, since, his zealot+stalker+immortal army would've crushed my slings+roaches. Worth it? I think so, since, I didn't have to put up with him constantly wraping units near my base









TL;DR Read it! Seriously, though, won against a strong protoss who had 3 bases compared to me 2 bases(one gold which I took without him realizing on scrap station). Hard battle but constant production of units and using terrain helps a lot. Interesting points I noticed: take gold exp on scrap station since most don't check until too late in game, build some spine crawlers(2 or so) for some defense, build a 2nd hatchery inbase and use the high ground to get extra shots on opponent's army.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

On the other hand, the game I played was against a P. It seems that *every* protoss that I've played against now puts a pylon in my exp, really annoying to take out so I usually leave it till I get zlings.

Dont abandon your hatch before pool just because of this. If your opponent scouts in the wrong direction, you can still get it down.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Dont abandon your hatch before pool just because of this. If your opponent scouts in the wrong direction, you can still get it down.

+1. Ebay works great if you get lucky and find them.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Okay, I lied, I wasn't back.

But NOW, I am officially back. 6 days of no Starcraft 2 is like T_T

But on the good news, GSL 3 Starting today!~!~!!

On the not-so-surprising news, Zerg won the GOM All-Star tournament, Kyrix (top8 GSL2 i believe) Foxer @ Second! Knocking out FruitDealer again.


I'm back from holiday. 10 days without SC2.









I've seen some of the All-star VODs. Tester was 3rd iirc. Shame he didn't make it into GSL3 though. Looks like it's gonna be all about T and Z again.


----------



## DoomDash

We could have a hero protoss make it to the finals unexpectedly.


----------



## cory1234

Need

link

to

GSL3

Edit: Doomdash game?


----------



## DoomDash

Eating Breakfast / watching Dexter w/ the girl. Probably won't be on for awhile.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Dont abandon your hatch before pool just because of this. If your opponent scouts in the wrong direction, you can still get it down.


While I agree with you, I was playing on a 2 player map so the location of my future exp was kinda obvious, however, on maps such as Shakuras Plateau, Lost Temple, etc.... I can see why they would scout in the wrong direction giving me the opportunity for an exp. I always go for it unless such an event such as this happens, at which point I go pool, lings to tear it down then exp. There is no point having some of my drones try to take it down, better to gather minerals and leave it to lings








I think the main reason that FD lost against Foxer was due to the fact that he plopped down a hatch before pool. Yes, true, Foxer wasn't attacking at that point(in the 2nd game), but, in the first one, it cost him the game. My belief is that if you plan to be a top player(well, let's just say high diamond and above), you must be flexible with any builds you perform, as in if the opponent lays down pylon or eng bay in your exp, have a backup plan in mind, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


+1. Ebay works great if you get lucky and find them.


Definitely, btw, I watched your plexa replays last night. In the first game, his unit combo was quite interesting and I do agree that VRs are underrated as well. His VR micro was pretty good as well, although, marines have the same range(?) so it wasn't as effective as he would've liked. I found it odd that your attack force was so small(decent dps though) and you didn't have much d at your base. Two things that stood out was the refinery in his base, I understand the reason behind it, but, it still seems cheesy to me







The second was the minerals surplus that you guys had at one point, I think it was 800-1000 in his case and 600 or so in yours. I also found that the game wasn't as fast paced as I would've thought, as in you guys didn't pressure each other enough, but, otherwise, it was interesting to watch









The second game was really different though. I liked your micro and the pressure that you put and I think otherall your timing in the second was also much better catching him just after his exp finished unike the first









@Massiv Watched your roach game that you posted. Having never done a 7RR, I can't really say if that's what it was, but, he got a pool then a warren and I think he got gas early which are the hallmarks of a 7RR, so, I think that's what happened here. Your biggest mistake was moving your stalkers+setry away from your choke to take down that OL because that allowed him access into your base. I think that was the main reason he was waiting outside, because he was afraid that you'll ff the ramp and then tear half of his army a new one with your zealots+stalkers. I think what would've helped was if you scouted that early warren which you did, you should've gotten more stalkers+sentries and kept an eye on your ramp while using one stalker to take down that OL. This would've discouraged his attack and you could kite the roaches with your stalkers









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Eating Breakfast / watching Dexter w/ the girl. Probably won't be on for awhile.


I'm interested in a game as well, do you have an idea when you're going to be on today? I haven't played against a T in a while, mostly P nowadays, I need the practice and the challenge


----------



## burwij

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Need

link

to

GSL3


http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=3

Looks like it's updated pretty religiously. All of the VODs are uploaded to the same fileshare site with a 10 minute limit between downloads.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While I agree with you, I was playing on a 2 player map so the location of my future exp was kinda obvious, however, on maps such as Shakuras Plateau, Lost Temple, etc.... I can see why they would scout in the wrong direction giving me the opportunity for an exp. I always go for it unless such an event such as this happens, at which point I go pool, lings to tear it down then exp. There is no point having some of my drones try to take it down, better to gather minerals and leave it to lings








I think the main reason that FD lost against Foxer was due to the fact that he plopped down a hatch before pool. Yes, true, Foxer wasn't attacking at that point(in the 2nd game), but, in the first one, it cost him the game. My belief is that if you plan to be a top player(well, let's just say high diamond and above), you must be flexible with any builds you perform, as in if the opponent lays down pylon or eng bay in your exp, have a backup plan in mind, etc....

Definitely, btw, I watched your plexa replays last night. In the first game, his unit combo was quite interesting and I do agree that VRs are underrated as well. His VR micro was pretty good as well, although, marines have the same range(?) so it wasn't as effective as he would've liked. I found it odd that your attack force was so small(decent dps though) and you didn't have much d at your base. Two things that stood out was the refinery in his base, I understand the reason behind it, but, it still seems cheesy to me







The second was the minerals surplus that you guys had at one point, I think it was 800-1000 in his case and 600 or so in yours. I also found that the game wasn't as fast paced as I would've thought, as in you guys didn't pressure each other enough, but, otherwise, it was interesting to watch









The second game was really different though. I liked your micro and the pressure that you put and I think otherall your timing in the second was also much better catching him just after his exp finished unike the first









@Massiv Watched your roach game that you posted. Having never done a 7RR, I can't really say if that's what it was, but, he got a pool then a warren and I think he got gas early which are the hallmarks of a 7RR, so, I think that's what happened here. Your biggest mistake was moving your stalkers+setry away from your choke to take down that OL because that allowed him access into your base. I think that was the main reason he was waiting outside, because he was afraid that you'll ff the ramp and then tear half of his army a new one with your zealots+stalkers. I think what would've helped was if you scouted that early warren which you did, you should've gotten more stalkers+sentries and kept an eye on your ramp while using one stalker to take down that OL. This would've discouraged his attack and you could kite the roaches with your stalkers









I'm interested in a game as well, do you have an idea when you're going to be on today? I haven't played against a T in a while, mostly P nowadays, I need the practice and the challenge










I'll be on in a little bit. Yeah I didn't play game one that well, and honestly I should have done a different build for that map because the distances are too long to have slow thors having any reasonable timing attack.


----------



## DoomDash

lol banelings lol

  
 You Tube  



 
When 3 bunkers, 12+ marines and scvs repairing isn't enough!


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *burwij*


http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=3

Looks like it's updated pretty religiously. All of the VODs are uploaded to the same fileshare site with a 10 minute limit between downloads.


I thought piracy wasn't supported on this website?
The ticket is just 15 bucks, pay for the damn thing...its well worth it


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While I agree with you, I was playing on a 2 player map so the location of my future exp was kinda obvious, however, on maps such as Shakuras Plateau, Lost Temple, etc.... I can see why they would scout in the wrong direction giving me the opportunity for an exp. I always go for it unless such an event such as this happens, at which point I go pool, lings to tear it down then exp. There is no point having some of my drones try to take it down, better to gather minerals and leave it to lings










Some protoss even scout after gateway. If anything, you will just get your gas/pool a little earlier if your natural is blocked. It will still be a solid build. This is something that Ive seen every pro execute even if they get their natural blocked by a pylon/ebay. Keep one drone on the pylon so that the shields go down. Spawn only 2 zerglings to take the pylon down.

If you have a feeling there is a probe at your natural, bring down two drones instead of one to try to fend it off. You will need good micro though.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Have y'all seen merz vs dimaga intel extreme masters series? Man o man I loved how merz the terran played in game 1 and 3.


----------



## DoomDash

#*(@*)#*(@)#*@)#*@$&*^%*^#@#_&@#

0-4 so far. -60 points.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Some protoss even scout after gateway. If anything, you will just get your gas/pool a little earlier if your natural is blocked. It will still be a solid build. This is something that Ive seen every pro execute even if they get their natural blocked by a pylon/ebay. Keep one drone on the pylon so that the shields go down. Spawn only 2 zerglings to take the pylon down.

If you have a feeling there is a probe at your natural, bring down two drones instead of one to try to fend it off. You will need good micro though.


Agree, although, I just think a drone mining minerals is a better idea just attacking a pylon since lings will take it down rather fast if you have a couple









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*




#*(@*)#*(@)#*@)#*@$&*^%*^#@#_&@#

0-4 so far. -60 points.


wow, lol, all against zerg? I need to see this replay, would be interesting to see banes in action


----------



## ThumperSD

You will either have one less drone mining and be able to get your expo sooner or have your drone mining and getting your expo later. Remember you will still have to bring your drone all the way back to your natural right before the pylon dies (to build the hatch) if you decide to use your drone to mine. There's trade-offs with both so you will have to decide here.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


You will either have one less drone mining and be able to get your expo sooner or have your drone mining and getting your expo later. Remember you will still have to bring your drone all the way back to your natural right before the pylon dies (to build the hatch) if you decide to use your drone to mine. There's trade-offs with both so you will have to decide here.


I see, well, you make valid points either way


----------



## DoomDash

Went 0-6, to 2-6. It was not a fun day. 2 wins were Toss, 3 losses were Z, 2 were T, and 1 was P. I did let one guy get away with a hidden base that cost me the game, but other than that I actually played pretty well, which is the worst part. About 35 points below where I started, and out of bonus pool. Cory1234, how are you not struggling !?!?!?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Went 0-6, to 2-6. It was not a fun day. 2 wins were Toss, 3 losses were Z, 2 were T, and 1 was P. I did let one guy get away with a hidden base that cost me the game, but other than that I actually played pretty well, which is the worst part. About 35 points below where I started, and out of bonus pool. Cory1234, how are you not struggling !?!?!?


He's playing as P, big difference from T







Immortals rape roaches, zealots rape zlings, ff breaks up army up, colossi take out lots of units and banes are less useful against P. Did I get everything?







Thinking about it, I think P has an easier time with Z than T do due to sentries and colossi. BTW, up for a game now?


----------



## DoomDash

Still recovering, give me 1 hour and I'll be back on.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Still recovering, give me 1 hour and I'll be back on.

Nice, I'll make sure I'm on








BTW, saw your bane replay, gotta say it was interesting to see all 3 rax taken down at once by those banes. I'm wondering if sacrificing a marauder would've helped as in put 2 halfway up the choke on hold to block them from getting to your rax+marines and put marines behind them such that they can kill banes/slings at bottom of choke and even if he denotes his banes, only the marauders are gone. Of course, you'll lose both but it'll take 7 banes to take them down which is still a significant investment in both gas+minerals(350/175 compared to your 200/50(100/25 for marauder, correct?) and considering he had one gas(you wouldn't know this though), he would've have a hard time constantly throwing them at you









I think putting a bunker behind those rax as a backup measure so that you at least have some defense after the rax are gone would've helped, but, not really sure. Not sure if you noticed when you watched the replay, but, he didn't upgrade their speed at all, infact, he had less workers than you did, sacrificed his eco to get banes out fast, so, if you were able to defend against them, you would've taken him out easy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Nice, I'll make sure I'm on








BTW, saw your bane replay, gotta say it was interesting to see all 3 rax taken down at once by those banes. I'm wondering if sacrificing a marauder would've helped as in put 2 halfway up the choke on hold to block them from getting to your rax+marines and put marines behind them such that they can kill banes/slings at bottom of choke and even if he denotes his banes, only the marauders are gone. Of course, you'll lose both but it'll take 7 banes to take them down which is still a significant investment in both gas+minerals(350/175 compared to your 200/50(100/25 for marauder, correct?) and considering he had one gas(you wouldn't know this though), he would've have a hard time constantly throwing them at you









I think putting a bunker behind those rax as a backup measure so that you at least have some defense after the rax are gone would've helped, but, not really sure. Not sure if you noticed when you watched the replay, but, he didn't upgrade their speed at all, infact, he had less workers than you did, sacrificed his eco to get banes out fast, so, if you were able to defend against them, you would've taken him out easy









I mean, I suspected it was coming and I planned ahead for it. 2 rax at front, 2 depots, and I put my 3 marauders on the weaker side to get the banes as well. Still didn't matter. I had Hellions to deal with the lings only slighty after he broke in, and I did pretty good control if you ask me. I then blocked for a second time with 3 rax and I had defending marines / murauders / hellions, and I still lost. I had any econ advantage, I planned for banes, and they didn't even have speed and everytime he would come out ahead. I also do builds that rush to one tank but this makes me super weak to 7 RR's even with a bunker, and I will not have much money to afford Thor's in case he went muta.

This is only half of what my complaints are though... I hate them even more @ mid-to-late game as they are crazy fast, easy to come by, and easy to micro with support. They completely nullify mmm w/ speed lings, and they also prevent thor's from being repaired.

I know they are beatable, but it then requires very very slow tank leap frogging while Zerg pretty much can move around the map freely with muta harassing where it can.. and slow also means you can't hit all the bases that will keep coming up, or defend yours properly.

Now, right now that's how I feel. Not saying they are IMBA for sure, but I certainly feel that way right now. When Husky is reacting to banes owning him in that music video that's exactly how I feel except with out just mass marines.

Watching GSL season 3 last night gave me a couple ideas, but I doubt they will be enough to deal with the problem.

When I lose TvP or TvT, I can look back and be like : I should have done this better. I also feel like my micro is pretty solid in these. I can upload another very micro intensive TvP if you like. But in TvZ you have to have GODLY micro, and at least at this point I'm not there. When I play as Zerg I never for a second feel like I'm required to have godly micro, and when I'm playing TvP and TvT I feel the same. I feel even better at storm dodging.


----------



## murderbymodem

Holy crap. I just found out about Sc2gears. Does anybody else use it?

http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/

It automatically backs up your replays to a folder you specify, has an APM monitor that can tell you if your APM gets too low while your playing, and it can warn you when a game starts / ends, which is a nice feature if you're like me and alt tab too much.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I mean, I suspected it was coming and I planned ahead for it. 2 rax at front, 2 depots, and I put my 3 marauders on the weaker side to get the banes as well. Still didn't matter. I had Hellions to deal with the lings only slighty after he broke in, and I did pretty good control if you ask me. I then blocked for a second time with 3 rax and I had defending marines / murauders / hellions, and I still lost. I had any econ advantage, I planned for banes, and they didn't even have speed and everytime he would come out ahead. I also do builds that rush to one tank but this makes me super weak to 7 RR's even with a bunker, and I will not have much money to afford Thor's in case he went muta.

This is only half of what my complaints are though... I hate them even more @ mid-to-late game as they are crazy fast, easy to come by, and easy to micro with support. They completely nullify mmm w/ speed lings, and they also prevent thor's from being repaired.

I know they are beatable, but it then requires very very slow tank leap frogging while Zerg pretty much can move around the map freely with muta harassing where it can.. and slow also means you can't hit all the bases that will keep coming up, or defend yours properly.

Now, right now that's how I feel. Not saying they are IMBA for sure, but I certainly feel that way right now. When Husky is reacting to banes owning him in that music video that's exactly how I feel except with out just mass marines.

Watching GSL season 3 last night gave me a couple ideas, but I doubt they will be enough to deal with the problem.

When I lose TvP or TvT, I can look back and be like : I should have done this better. I also feel like my micro is pretty solid in these. I can upload another very micro intensive TvP if you like. But in TvZ you have to have GODLY micro, and at least at this point I'm not there. When I play as Zerg I never for a second feel like I'm required to have godly micro, and when I'm playing TvP and TvT I feel the same. I feel even better at storm dodging.

Yes, you are correct, your hellion micro was fantastic. Too bad, you weren't able to have 4 at any one point, then the micro would've been easier. As for banes, not really sure what to say, maybe reduce their building damage to 3/4of what it is so that they are a little worst at destroying buildings, but, their damage is weak enough(20) for their price, so, I think that's fine, maybe slightly lower splash as well? Having never faced them as a T or P, I can only assume that it's much harder. I had Z games where I had to micro my slings to avoid the blings and my opponent had to do the same. I think baiting them is the best idea, so, run a marauder into the banes, 7 down and you lost one marauder







BTW, heading into sc2 now, hope to see you there


----------



## EmMure

I want my internet back haha


----------



## DoomDash

ggs all. I will be going to bed soon so I can get up for GSL + Breakfast







.

EDIT, Guess some are on now, so, watching, then sleep, then up for gsl + breakfast, then sleep again







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redmist* 
Holy crap. I just found out about Sc2gears. Does anybody else use it?

http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/

It automatically backs up your replays to a folder you specify, has an APM monitor that can tell you if your APM gets too low while your playing, and it can warn you when a game starts / ends, which is a nice feature if you're like me and alt tab too much.

So you have to alt+tab for the APM and start/end features?

Does it allow you to save more recent replays than Blizzard's standard 10? I forget to save my replay sometimes during long sessions. I wish I can save at least my last 20-30 replays automatically since the replays are so small in size.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
ggs all. I will be going to bed soon so I can get up for GSL + Breakfast







.

EDIT, Guess some are on now, so, watching, then sleep, then up for gsl + breakfast, then sleep again







.

Sleep is for the weak! Pull an all-nighter


----------



## DoomDash

I eat unhealthy enough I don't think I should help in the process of being unhealthy







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
I want my internet back haha

What happened? Having disconnects? Now it makes sense why I'm not seeing you online









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
ggs all. I will be going to bed soon so I can get up for GSL + Breakfast







.

EDIT, Guess some are on now, so, watching, then sleep, then up for gsl + breakfast, then sleep again







.

Sorry but as Thumper mentioned below and you as well as EmMure mentioned previously, gamers don't sleep. May I add they might nap?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
So you have to alt+tab for the APM and start/end features?

Does it allow you to save more recent replays than Blizzard's standard 10? I forget to save my replay sometimes during long sessions. I wish I can save at least my last 20-30 replays automatically since the replays are so small in size.

Sleep is for the weak! Pull an all-nighter

Personally, really wish the game saves the replay once you click the score screen button, because, I've had the game freeze right after clicking it and have lost valuable replays









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 







I eat unhealthy enough I don't think I should help in the process of being unhealthy







.

Well, unless you are eating fast food and drinking soda along with a lot of fatty food on a daily basis, I don't see why you be unhealthy


----------



## DoomDash

I'll just nap twice.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'll just nap twice.

You mean in general or you mean you're staying up till morning to watch GSL?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
You mean in general or you mean you're staying up till morning to watch GSL?









It doesn't matter. 7RR!


----------



## yks

Major Spoiler/Upset:


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



HopeTorture aka ITR aka Rainbow, got knocked out by some new comer. =[ My liquibets have got to ****, too many upsets. First jooktojung, then TheWind, and now Rainbow.


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



/dance marines were epic earlier

I love how biased Artosis is for Zerg. He acts like those marine rushes always work, yet I see them fail 50% of the time. Certainly no one would want to take a 50% chance, unless something was wrong with the match up. **** Foxer failed hard at one with 15 SCV's and perfect micro.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I'll be sending out my 480 GTX very soon now. Should have some nice bonus pool saved up then.


----------



## BigFan

Just woke up, nice and refreshed









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Looks like I'll be sending out my 480 GTX very soon now. Should have some nice bonus pool saved up then.


Definitely and if you can win a couple of games straight, double the points







Planning to playing practice matches on your gf's rig or have you decided against it?


----------



## DoomDash

I may play on hers, I get the SCII itch often. It used to be mine before I built this computer







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I may play on hers, I get the SCII itch often. It used to be mine before I built this computer







.


ah, I see, well, if you are up for practice or to test new strats, msg me or post here anytime, always up for a game myself, more so in the evening though but that's an internet issue!


----------



## poroboszcz

I have nearly 300 points on my bonus pool, but I'm afraid to play ladder lol. After nearly two weeks off I feel really rusty.

@Doom: If you have any old/spare GPU you could always play sc1. I recently installed it on some old laptop. 1a,2a,3a,4a,5z,6z,7t,8p,9p,0p... it's good for your mechanics.







I rarely ever use keys above 6 in sc2.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I have nearly 300 points on my bonus pool, but I'm afraid to play ladder lol. After nearly two weeks off I feel really rusty.

@Doom: If you have any old/spare GPU you could always play sc1. I recently installed it on some old laptop. 1a,2a,3a,4a,5z,6z,7t,8p,9p,0p... it's good for your mechanics.







I rarely ever use keys above 6 in sc2.


I have >1000 points, lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I have >1000 points, lol










Why don't you play ladder then? Since you seem to practice mostly with diamond players you're probably way above your league.


----------



## DoomDash

Both of you should ladder. Laddering is fun and good practice. Lots of different types of players. I wish I had that kind of bonus pool.

I don't know if I could go back to SC1... SCII's engine spoiled me.

But my old computer plays SCII just fine on low.


----------



## Lazorbeam

What's everyone's thoughts about the phoenix in PvT?

I've been going phoenix heavy (aka using them) this past week and it's working amazing. In macro games I'll slap down a second stargate. Here's how the typical game goes:

- Quick turtle tech to phoenix, pump stalker and sentry.
- Terran will scan your stargate and freak out, building turrets and keeping marines back.
- Transition into heavy chargelot and colossus, take expansion. At this point you should be able to take the terran mineral to mineral.
- Add templars to the mix and the terran is in BIG trouble.

Phoenix work great because:
- Most terran players are attack movers: marines will attack zealots, vikings will attack phoenix, and your colossi will rape the bioball.
- They completely psych out the terran from attempting drops (HUGE).
- They're good for harassing (bioball and medivac/vikings dont move at the same speed). You can even pick off marines and units being rallied to the main army.
- You can take tanks out of the terran ownage equation.

I rarely see this in pro replays, in fact only 1 pro is using them, which prompted me to try this out (because he raped). I can post replays of me vs 2200 opponents if needed.


----------



## poroboszcz

I've seen phoenixes being used by Nony and KiWiKaKi with moderate success. I'd say that normally if terran sees you're going phoenix he can just go ****ing kill you. Never had much success with them except as an addition to colossi late game and can't see it working against most of popular marine heavy timing attacks. I also rarely ever 1 base against terrans any more.


----------



## DoomDash

If I see phoenix, I build 2 turrets, walk into your base and kill you. Never seen it work against me ever. I don't just a move though. Voidrays are still much better vs Terran.


----------



## rhed5

I'm not sure how you get pheonix stalker and sentry, too gas heavy.

How do you defend your natural? I can't imagine stopping the first push.


----------



## ThumperSD

Nony is 1337 with Phoenix play. Personally I only get them against zerg.

Theyre easier for terrans to take out than for zergs. Id rather use them to pick off SCVs than marines though. Also good to lift tanks and let your stalkers help pick them off but I prefer to use them vs light units. Ive seen pros use it with success vs terran though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I'm not sure how you get pheonix stalker and sentry, too gas heavy.

How do you defend your natural? I can't imagine stopping the first push.


I doubt you will. Darrenc oktoberfest did a phoenix opener vs me in the oc.net finals ( he is 2200+ diamond too ), and I just pushed out after my turrets were up and won. He didn't have enough on the ground to stop me.

It might work if the guy doesn't realize he should push soon.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Why don't you play ladder then? Since you seem to practice mostly with diamond players you're probably way above your league.


Actually, I do ladder, but, I started MP end of Sept since I was busy playing through campaign and I'm only playing a game or two per day now, mostly at night since my net lags during the day, so, it builds up rather fast. Lowest its been was 799 or so







Yes, I've played against most on here anywhere from bronze to diamond with varying results. I've also played customs against some diamonds which were interesting to say the least.

My problem is that sometimes if I see an opening, I'll make units to attack but then might decide against it which leaves me in a bad situation since those units could've went for eco(this happened last night with a game against doom), my scouting has been almost non-existant lately(not sure why, likely since I'm making bad assumptions about what my opponent might build, so, I ignore it) and my macro is not the greatest, so, I'll exp 15 and start getting gas, etc... but sometimes would make a couple of drones, but, concentrate on making an army which isn't how I should play zerg







. I also seem to lose to some rather bizzare strategies that I've could easily defended against(lost to banshee harass last night against doom, even though I could've easily thrown some spores before hand and I had more than enough minerals to make 10 of them if I wanted :facepalm







. It's still kinda funny though, since, I haven't lost to a banshee harass in a long while(usually have mutas+overseer by then).

TL;DR I do ladder, internet issues affect that though and I started laddering late(end Sept). Still have some issues in my game including taking advantage of openings, more effective scouting, better macroing and get spores/teching up faster.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Both of you should ladder. Laddering is fun and good practice. Lots of different types of players. I wish I had that kind of bonus pool.

I don't know if I could go back to SC1... SCII's engine spoiled me.

But my old computer plays SCII just fine on low.


I do ladder, but, much less these days. If I don't feel like I'm in the mood, I avoid it because I don't wanna lost points and add on that I can only ladder at night due to internet's issue which means that I play less games as a result









SC1 is still fun, even if just to play with the campaign editor and make random scenarios









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


What's everyone's thoughts about the phoenix 
in PvT?

I've been going phoenix heavy (aka using them) this past week and it's working amazing. In macro games I'll slap down a second stargate. Here's how the typical game goes:

- Quick turtle tech to phoenix, pump stalker and sentry.
- Terran will scan your stargate and freak out, building turrets and keeping marines back.
- Transition into heavy chargelot and colossus, take expansion. At this point you should be able to take the terran mineral to mineral.
- Add templars to the mix and the terran is in BIG trouble.

Phoenix work great because:
- Most terran players are attack movers: marines will attack zealots, vikings will attack phoenix, and your colossi will rape the bioball.
- They completely psych out the terran from attempting drops (HUGE).
- They're good for harassing (bioball and medivac/vikings dont move at the same speed). You can even pick off marines and units being rallied to the main army.
- You can take tanks out of the terran ownage equation.

I rarely see this in pro replays, in fact only 1 pro is using them, which prompted me to try this out (because he raped).* I can post replays of me vs 2200 opponents if needed*.


I would be interested in watching such a game









Problem with phenoix harass as I see it is that a couple of turrets/spores/cannons really deter them. They are great for picking up tanks to get an edge while your army battles his, but, then there is the risk of losing them before the engagement. They are great for picking off OLs and mutas, but, it's harder to keep up with muta production. Against vikings, I'm not sure how they will perform due to the insane range of vikings+damage they do


----------



## banded1

anyone going to be on a bit later? like 6 EST?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


So you have to alt+tab for the APM and start/end features?

Does it allow you to save more recent replays than Blizzard's standard 10? I forget to save my replay sometimes during long sessions. I wish I can save at least my last 20-30 replays automatically since the replays are so small in size.


You don't have to alt-tab. A voice will alert you when the game starts/ends, as well as when your APM drops too low, and when your APM is acceptable again. You can set the APM alarm for any APM you want. I set mine to warn me if I drop below 30 APM.

It allows you to save unlimited replays. As soon as you're done playing a game it will take the replay, rename it according to your parameters (an expample of the naming scheme I've configured is "2v2 ZPvPT 2010-11-22 21-37-58 cirE Minandreas Tarsonis Assault .SC2Replay"), then save it in a folder you specify. I actually set it up so that it saves the replays to my NAS server. So basically I'll have an archive of every SC2 game I play for now on.


----------



## ThumperSD

Phoenix beats viking 1v1


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody watch that second game between Fruitdealer and that other zerg this morning? Fruitdealer's drone micro was perfect. Best I have ever witnessed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


You don't have to alt-tab. A voice will alert you when the game starts/ends, as well as when your APM drops too low, and when your APM is acceptable again. You can set the APM alarm for any APM you want. I set mine to warn me if I drop below 30 APM.

It allows you to save unlimited replays. As soon as you're done playing a game it will take the replay, rename it according to your parameters (an expample of the naming scheme I've configured is "2v2 ZPvPT 2010-11-22 21-37-58 cirE Minandreas Tarsonis Assault .SC2Replay"), then save it in a folder you specify. I actually set it up so that it saves the replays to my NAS server. So basically I'll have an archive of every SC2 game I play for now on.










Awesome. Im interested in the unlimited replays feature. Repped!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


anyone going to be on a bit later? like 6 EST?


I might be on









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Phoenix beats viking 1v1


hmm, I was thinking it's close considering viking damage and range.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


You don't have to alt-tab. A voice will alert you when the game starts/ends, as well as when your APM drops too low, and when your APM is acceptable again. You can set the APM alarm for any APM you want. I set mine to warn me if I drop below 30 APM.

It allows you to save unlimited replays. As soon as you're *done playing a game *it will take the replay, rename it according to your parameters (an expample of the naming scheme I've configured is "2v2 ZPvPT 2010-11-22 21-37-58 cirE Minandreas Tarsonis Assault .SC2Replay"), then save it in a folder you specify. I actually set it up so that it saves the replays to my NAS server. So basically I'll have an archive of every SC2 game I play for now on.










hmm, does this mean it saves the replay right after a game is done *before* you click score screen? Reason I ask is because sometimes SC2 freezes when I press score screen and I've lost replays as a result









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Anybody watch that second game between Fruitdealer and that other zerg this morning? Fruitdealer's drone micro was perfect. Best I have ever witnessed.


I haven't watched it, but, now I'm interested


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan sounds like you talk yourself out of laddering to me.


----------



## DoomDash

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123...20101123092327

This could have a big impact on SCII ... and maybe everything in the log run.


----------



## banded1

this was all over the news today. thats the first thing i thought of when i saw it
"that may not be so good for those korean players on SCII"

Damn Korean goverment always has to be causing problems


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BigFan sounds like you talk yourself out of laddering to me.

Maybe, but, I don't really know as in if I don't feel like laddering, I really think I'll play worse, but, it also comes down to the idea that playing against a high-level opponent will help me fix my game faster than a lower one due to having to adapt to the higher level style.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123...20101123092327

This could have a big impact on SCII ... and maybe everything in the log run.

Maybe, but, doubt it will affect SC2.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
this was all over the news today. thats the first thing i thought of when i saw it
"that may not be so good for those korean players on SCII"

Damn Korean goverment always has to be causing problems

We don't really know the exact reason for the artillery barrage, although, this is what the North claims:
"The shelling began at 2:34 pm (0534 GMT) after the North sent several messages protesting about South Korean naval, air force and army training exercises being staged close to the border, a presidential spokesman said."

Either way, I won't drawn conclusions to why it happened and to the outcome in the near future


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan do you not know much about the whole tensions between North Korea / South Korea? The North Koreans sank a South Korean ship random in South Korean waters, they are pretty much giant *******s, and this is no different in this situation.

This is becoming a repeated problem.


----------



## banded1

theres been a lot of back and forth between those two


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BigFan do you not know much about the whole tensions between North Korea / South Korea? The North Koreans sank a South Korean ship random in South Korean waters, they are pretty much giant *******s, and this is no different in this situation.

This is becoming a repeated problem.

lol, the news are on in my house almost every single minute. I'm well aware of the sinking of that submarine and the tensions between them. I listen to the news on a daily basis, my point was that we can't say that a war will start soon or that it will affect SC2. Also, the whole point of that previous post was to show that North attacked South because *they* believed that the exercises which were really close to the border were done to provocate such a reaction. Whether I agree with their actions or not is a different story, just making a point. Also, news isn't always what it seems, there is always another side to EVERY story


----------



## DoomDash

GSL is on. Sending 480 tomorrow for sure now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
GSL is on. Sending 480 tomorrow for sure now.

You mean now? I thought it wasn't till 7 in the morning. Don't matter though, I'm going to bed


----------



## DoomDash

For the ro64 they are on twice a day. check gomtv.net.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
For the ro64 they are on twice a day. check gomtv.net.

oh, ok, makes sense. I plan to keep up with this GSL so we'll see if that happens


----------



## banded1

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...uadrant#rd:dna

C&C guys
i managed to defend against a really early marine rush


----------



## thiru

lol Clide vs Leenock

Clide leaves the game after ~10 minutes
wat

edit: 3rd game: HOLY CRAP that was epic


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I've seen phoenixes being used by Nony and KiWiKaKi with moderate success. I'd say that normally if terran sees you're going phoenix he can just go ****ing kill you. Never had much success with them except as an addition to colossi late game and can't see it working against most of popular marine heavy timing attacks. I also rarely ever 1 base against terrans any more.


The great thing about stargate -> robo is that the terran will think you're going vray and focus his attention to defending that. You don't really 1 base, phoenix just really help deter the terran is the long run.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If I see phoenix, I build 2 turrets, walk into your base and kill you. Never seen it work against me ever. I don't just a move though. Voidrays are still much better vs Terran.


Vrays are pretty good, but they get auto-targeted in large battles so they go down quickly. Phoenix, on the other hand, can fly over any battle and won't get auto-attacked by rines.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Problem with phenoix harass as I see it is that a couple of turrets/spores/cannons really deter them. They are great for picking up tanks to get an edge while your army battles his, but, then there is the risk of losing them before the engagement. They are great for picking off OLs and mutas, but, it's harder to keep up with muta production. Against vikings, I'm not sure how they will perform due to the insane range of vikings+damage they do










The point isn't to harass workers, but if you can, that's just a bonus. Vikings become a problem when you're inferior food for food, in the ideal scenario you should take on terran toe to toe and commit to a fight. Phoenix totally rape vikings.

Vs muta, phoenix have the upper hand even vs much larger numbers, as you can kite them indefinitely. Micro intensive though.

Btw, I played more games last night and won 4 straight vs terran. I'm finally breaking out of 2k and heading to 2100.


----------



## dezshiz

Man that clide leenock match was epic


----------



## Obsidian

I haven't been getting any sleep the last few days because of GSL. I don't even play SC2 online because it's way too hard to be as good as I want to be but my love for the original has kept me interested in the tournament.

And yes, that match was epic, especially so because the announcers were kissing Clide's ass all night and Leenock was able to pull out the win. Leenock looks like 12 though; it reminds me of the Chinese Olympic gymnasts from a few years ago.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


The great thing about stargate -> robo is that the terran will think you're going vray and focus his attention to defending that. You don't really 1 base, phoenix just really help deter the terran is the long run.

Vrays are pretty good, but they get auto-targeted in large battles so they go down quickly. Phoenix, on the other hand, can fly over any battle and won't get auto-attacked by rines.

The point isn't to harass workers, but if you can, that's just a bonus. Vikings become a problem when you're inferior food for food, in the ideal scenario you should take on terran toe to toe and commit to a fight. Phoenix totally rape vikings.

Vs muta, phoenix have the upper hand even vs much larger numbers, as you can kite them indefinitely. Micro intensive though.

Btw, I played more games last night and won 4 straight vs terran. I'm finally breaking out of 2k and heading to 2100.


Just think you have better options.


----------



## DoomDash

Today's state of the game is pretty good. They discuss TvZ and it's pretty good. IdrA and PainUser.


----------



## poroboszcz

@Lazor: I'd like to see some replays then, especially against some early rax aggression. I just can't see how during the first 10 minutes of the game phoenix can be more useful then void ray or zealot+sentry which cost the same minus stargate.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


@Lazor: I'd like to see some replays then, especially against some early rax aggression. I just can't see how during the first 10 minutes of the game phoenix can be more useful then void ray or zealot+sentry which cost the same minus stargate.


I think you guys are getting the impression that I'm massing phoenix. This is not the case, I'm merely adding them to the usual protoss army and making sure I always have 1-2 stargates producing.

I'll try and remember to post replays tonight. I have 2 nice games vs 2100-2200 rated opponents featuring some medivac intercepts etc.

As with any strategy, this one has its weaknesses (timed thor push sucks) but I find the benefits totally worthwhile.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I think you guys are getting the impression that I'm massing phoenix. This is not the case, I'm merely adding them to the usual protoss army and making sure I always have 1-2 stargates producing.

I'll try and remember to post replays tonight. I have 2 nice games vs 2100-2200 rated opponents featuring some medivac intercepts etc.

As with any strategy, this one has its weaknesses (timed thor push sucks) but I find the benefits totally worthwhile.


I think both my builds would be powerful vs this. My thor push, and my MMG push.


----------



## poroboszcz

Have you guys seen this application? It's one of the best things created ever. It uses kind of evolution algorithm to create an optimal build order for given conditions. There's a similar one for Zerg called evolution chamber. It's pretty sweet.

Takes some time to really make it do what you want to using checkpoints, but it can cut a lot of seconds from most builds or come up with some new ones. You can also see from it and practicing the builds how all the smallest things like getting the first pylon 2 seconds late or scouting at 9 rather than 12 can eventually delay your push by 15-20 seconds. Even using chronoboost at right buildings at the right time can make up to half minute difference.


----------



## DoomDash

I prefer the old fashion way. Though I totally did steal the 7RR from the Evo Chamber program. I haven't lost with a 7RR yet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Have you guys seen this application? It's one of the best things created ever. It uses kind of evolution algorithm to create an optimal build order for given conditions. There's a similar one for Zerg called evolution chamber. It's pretty sweet.

Takes some time to really make it do what you want to using checkpoints, but it can cut a lot of seconds from most builds or come up with some new ones. You can also see from it and practicing the builds how all the smallest things like getting the first pylon 2 seconds late or scouting at 9 rather than 12 can eventually delay your push by 15-20 seconds. Even using chronoboost at right buildings at the right time can make up to half minute difference.


hmm, TBH, I'm not too big on those kind of things as in I prefer to try the different builds myself to test which is the best/fastest, etc.... To me, it seems like you are kinda cheating and takes the fun out of the game, but, my opinion









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I prefer the old fashion way. Though I totally did steal the 7RR from the Evo Chamber program. I haven't lost with a 7RR yet.


Well, 7RR is supposed to be hard to beat if not spotted, otherwise, a bunker with some marines+SCV repair should suffice


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, 7RR is supposed to be hard to beat if not spotted, otherwise, a bunker with some marines+SCV repair should suffice










This is why i dont try it against terran unless they dont block the front.
Against protoss it is absolute murder. there is not much they can do about it.

Also for that program, you are right, it does take the fun out of the game. Sometimes like The Little One said on nov 17 Day9 daily, you dont want to be too caught up in a straight up build. its supposed to be a ''tool'' that you can use amongst many, not a manual to follow word for word.

So when your opponent does something different that messes up the build, you know how to addapt and react and choose a different ''tool'' to win with.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, TBH, I'm not too big on those kind of things as in I prefer to try the different builds myself to test which is the best/fastest, etc.... To me, it seems like you are kinda cheating and takes the fun out of the game, but, my opinion









Well, 7RR is supposed to be hard to beat if not spotted, otherwise, a bunker with some marines+SCV repair should suffice










It's hard to stop being spotted though.. that's the problem. Although the match vs Cory I did not tell him, I do tell others that I try it against and I have yet to be stopped. While I think Terran has an easier time dealing with it ( still very hard though ), Protoss has the worst time dealing with it. 7RR vs Protoss has almost no disadvantages, because if you don't win out right, you are still ahead and free to expand.

It would be quite easy to fix.. either increase the roach warren cost or increase its build time.

Also for Terran, I usually break the depot with out losing a single roach ( marines do jack to roach ), and just walk by the bunker.


----------



## ThumperSD

I hate starting a game and having no idea *** im going to do. Its a recipe for disaster!!

On another note, I finally got enough games in on my "for fun" account and made it to diamond. Funny thing is that Im ranked 31 diamond after only 23 games played and rank 50 diamond with 136 games played on my laddering account.

Oh yea I thought its pretty awesome that Husky is donating his ad revenue from his banelings video charity. Husky is the man!


----------



## rhed5

If zerg is 1 base, I would generally think 7RR or some baneling bust. It's absolutely so important to scout if he is expanding, this will give you a big hint.

It's tougher for protoss. But then they're always in a tough spot. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


If zerg is 1 base, I would generally think 7RR or some baneling bust. It's absolutely so important to scout if he is expanding, this will give you a big hint.

It's tougher for protoss. But then they're always in a tough spot. lol


Yep... if I see one base Z I need to build 10 barracks at the front to prevent any baneling speedling busts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
This is why i dont try it against terran unless they dont block the front.
Against protoss it is absolute murder. there is not much they can do about it.

Also for that program, you are right, it does take the fun out of the game. Sometimes like The Little One said on nov 17 Day9 daily, you dont want to be too caught up in a straight up build. its supposed to be a ''tool'' that you can use amongst many, not a manual to follow word for word.

So when your opponent does something different that messes up the build, you know how to addapt and react and choose a different ''tool'' to win with.

Pretty much which is the reason that I don't stick or even trying a certain build. I think just go for what works, try early exp, blocked, go for pool, go for exp again, get roach warren or maybe bane nest and tech to lair, etc.... It's nice that each game is somewhat different!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's hard to stop being spotted though.. that's the problem. Although the match vs Cory I did not tell him, I do tell others that I try it against and I have yet to be stopped. While I think Terran has an easier time dealing with it ( still very hard though ), Protoss has the worst time dealing with it. 7RR vs Protoss has almost no disadvantages, because if you don't win out right, you are still ahead and free to expand.

It would be quite easy to fix.. either increase the roach warren cost or increase its build time.

Also for Terran, I usually break the depot with out losing a single roach ( marines do jack to roach ), and just walk by the bunker.

I don't know, I would think as P you could probably get a cc fast, then some zealots+sentry to ff ramp and make stalkers in the meantime or straight stalkers+1 sentry for ff. In terms of spotting it, Z who is 1 basing with a pool then a warren and early gas is likely going for a 7RR. As for bunker, well, you could probably try to add a marauder or two to help out before they hit, although, I've never had to deal with 7RR in any game so can't tell how lethal it is. This is mostly based on what I've heard/think would work









You know, I'm interested in going against 7RR, think we can get a game going a bit later on to try it. I want to see what I can make as Z, T and P and the difficulty involved









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yep... if I see one base Z I need to build 10 barracks at the front to prevent any baneling speedling busts.

lol, true. Doubt you'll be forgetting that one 3 rax game for a long time although I still think building a bunker on either side with some marauders with cs would've helped to take down some blings before they hit and the bunkers would still be intact and you can salvage them, but, an opinion of course.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean, of course I could have dealt with those banelings even better. But let's be honest, should I really have to build 8 buildings at my ramp to stop a baneling bust? You know what I mean? I was just kidding about the 10 barracks, exaggerating, but it's got a little truth to it.

Do the 7RR perfectly executed and you will be a believer. I've seen at most 2 zealots and a sentry by the time I hit the ramp. Maybe you could get 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and 1 stalker? Who knows, but either way I don't think that FF is going to stall long enough to give you the advantage. I think the answer may be cannons, but idk.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I mean, of course I could have dealt with those banelings even better. But let's be honest, should I really have to build 8 buildings at my ramp to stop a baneling bust? You know what I mean? I was just kidding about the 10 barracks, exaggerating, but it's got a little truth to it.

Do the 7RR perfectly executed and you will be a believer. I've seen at most 2 zealots and a sentry by the time I hit the ramp. Maybe you could get 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and 1 stalker? Who knows, but either way I don't think that FF is going to stall long enough to give you the advantage. I think the answer may be cannons, but idk.

I know, just making a joke







It would be soo funny to see you build 10 rax near your entrance though, if you ever decide to go that against a Z, please upload the replay because I would want to see it







hmm, what if you delayed the first zealot and chronoboosted stalkers from 2 gateways/wrapgates? I would think that cb would help at least get a 3rd stalker, so, then you can micro them, possibly take out a couple of roaches, then continue cb and making stalkers. Yes, I know microing is likely more difficult with the new range for roaches, but, it might be your only solution against 7RR aside from cannons at your base


----------



## DoomDash

I think maybe a very fast gateway thrown down after scouting, then double gate to two Zealots chronoed for early pressure might stop it completely. If you can get there before the roaches anyway, you could really screw up the timing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think maybe a very fast gateway thrown down after scouting, then double gate to two Zealots chronoed for early pressure might stop it completely. If you can get there before the roaches anyway, you could really screw up the timing.

Interesting, would like to try this myself.

Anyone interested in giving 7RR and defending against it a role later tonight? Should be interesting


----------



## DoomDash

Um, I should be able to be on in 2-3 hours.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think maybe a very fast gateway thrown down after scouting, then double gate to two Zealots chronoed for early pressure might stop it completely. If you can get there before the roaches anyway, you could really screw up the timing.

You would be able to slow down his 7RR but you wont be able to kill him once his roaches come out. Doing so will also slow you down from getting stalker/sentry so you have to do some significant damage to him for it to be worth it.


----------



## Mr.Zergling

So my problem was a disconnecting modem, that made me lose placement matches + like my first 15, games, so im firmly stuck in bronze league. The modem has since been replaced and my record is now 31/19 in 1v1s, and im still in bronze....


----------



## motoray

whats up with the ranking system? my 4's team is 1st in our bronze by over 200 points awesome win loss ratio and we just stayed here for like 2 weeks not playing it as much because its not moving up... any ideas?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mr.Zergling* 
So my problem was a disconnecting modem, that made me lose placement matches + like my first 15, games, so im firmly stuck in bronze league. The modem has since been replaced and my record is now 31/19 in 1v1s, and im still in bronze....

Keep playing. I was stuck in bronze for a long time even after beating most plat/diamond players. I eventually lost 3 games in a row, won 1 after that and got promoted. The system will keep placing you against higher and higher ranked players until you start losing about 50% of your matches.

Just keep playing and you will inevitably get promoted if you play better than a bronze player


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Um, I should be able to be on in 2-3 hours.

ok, nice, I'll try to be on then, really interested in practicing(didn't touch sc2 yesterday







).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mr.Zergling* 
So my problem was a disconnecting modem, that made me lose placement matches + like my first 15, games, so im firmly stuck in bronze league. The modem has since been replaced and my record is now 31/19 in 1v1s, and im still in bronze....

Well, you need to win constantly as in keep on winning against other bronze, then eventually you'll play against some silver players, try and keep on winning against them and it'll promote you









Quote:


Originally Posted by *motoray* 
whats up with the ranking system? my 4's team is 1st in our bronze by over 200 points awesome win loss ratio and we just stayed here for like 2 weeks not playing it as much because its not moving up... any ideas?

Points don't matter, it's about how well you are playing against other teams that you are matched to. I think it's the same as 1vs1. Read my post to Mr. Zergling above, it should be explain why you weren't promoted yet


----------



## Mr.Zergling

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
ok, nice, I'll try to be on then, really interested in practicing(didn't touch sc2 yesterday







).

Well, you need to win constantly as in keep on winning against other bronze, then eventually you'll play against some silver players, try and keep on winning against them and it'll promote you









Points don't matter, it's about how well you are playing against other teams that you are matched to. I think it's the same as 1vs1. Read my post to Mr. Zergling above, it should be explain why you weren't promoted yet









Well, it's been telling me that teams are evenly matched on the load screen when im playing against gold players, and I have been beating them so....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mr.Zergling* 
Well, it's been telling me that teams are evenly matched on the load screen when im playing against gold players, and I have been beating them so....

yes, well, the system matches with MMR, so, two options there: 1) You've been playing against silver, beat them, system matches against gold eventually promoting you 2) If you are in a losing streak, the system gives you lower levelled opponents to help you out as in your gold opponent might've been in a losing streak which is why you had to fight him. If you are indeed being matched and winning against gold level opponents, you'll get promoted soon enough


----------



## DoomDash

Your MMR needs to even out before you can get promoted.. so if you are doing amazing it will be awhile until you kinda hit a more accurate level of competition.


----------



## srsdude

starcraft 2 is not fun now. I get matched with idiots every time. All people do is rush, and even if I make stuff to counter it, my team still sucks. The only way I ever win is if I actually rush some of them out, or if they don't scout and I successfully set up 3 more bases to make up for my crap team. I don't know what's up with the matchmaking system. Oh yea, and at the start of every game, the other team is "favored" every time.

I going to stop playing sc2 soon...


----------



## DoomDash

Survival of the fittest.


----------



## banded1

sorry about going offline bigfan
gf called. ill be on later if you see this in time









@srsdude
i just started playing and got placed in silver league, i think ive played 1 silver, theyve all been gold... its annoying, but it gives me good practice


----------



## blackedv

ive played some games that were nothing but diamonds and then ive played games against bronze so i have no idea whats up with matchmaking at the moment, this is all team games though. i hear ya on the teammates part


----------



## Katana

I'm such an amature player, I felt amazed when I won my first 1v1 game in the beginner league.


----------



## PcKiller

Hi all,

I just bought this game, and only got to play one online game. The rest has been single player. Have to get the hang of how to play before I start playing online again. got my butt handed to me in the 1st online game with a teammate and me against 2 PC opponents


----------



## Katana

After the campaign, it might be a good idea to play a few games just against CPUs. The units you spammed during campaign might not even be there in multiplayer (I was surprised to learn things like Science Vessels and Firebats were gone)

For those 2vCPU games, feel free to take it from Easy and work your way up. Back then, it's kinda simple; work quickly early on at least to be sure you can counter an early attack, then just farm yourself up to masses of your best units to storm forward.


----------



## ThumperSD

You newbies should get together and start practicing with each other


----------



## DoomDash

Hope you are watching the GSL.


----------



## Twistacles

Sure am. I'm gonna call it right here, AliveFOU might just take the entire GSL. That guy is sick good.

And h5 @ polt abusing the metagame


----------



## DoomDash

I'm hoping Boxer gets nothing but TvT's and wins it lol.


----------



## Twistacles

Wow, polt really came back there.
Meh, im rooting for ret, jinro, idra, genius and any protoss


----------



## ThumperSD

"We apologize for your inconvenience.
Currently, simultaneous connection limit has exceeded.
Please try to access Live shows after a moment."

Anybody have the URL so I can paste it into Gom player?


----------



## DoomDash

http://211.43.144.190:8800/view.cgi?...1c97e521baf4b2


----------



## ThumperSD

^ Awesome thanks


----------



## DoomDash

NP. I miss your old avatar.


----------



## ThumperSD

LOL.. figured I had it for too long


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
LOL.. figured I had it for too long

Maybe do another sexy lady.


----------



## ThumperSD

Will do later but gotta represent my Lakers for now =P


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Maybe do another sexy lady.









i'm surprised no-one here is using Tychus' ace of spades lady on his armor as an avatar yet...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
sorry about going offline bigfan
gf called. ill be on later if you see this in time









@srsdude
i just started playing and got placed in silver league, i think ive played 1 silver, theyve all been gold... its annoying, but it gives me good practice

np, I was busy with a 3vs3 anyways. I'll be on likely tommorrow, same time, see you then









Quote:


Originally Posted by *blackedv* 
ive played some games that were nothing but diamonds and then ive played games against bronze so i have no idea whats up with matchmaking at the moment, this is all team games though. i hear ya on the teammates part

Well, arranged teams are placed on a higher level than random ones, thus, the reason that you were playing against players who had Gold+ for their 2vs2when you only had bronze or silver(an example)









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
You newbies should get together and start practicing with each other


----------



## BigFan

Having problems connecting with GomTV. How do I use the URL? I tried copy and then paste into GomTV(open->url), but, doesn't work









Edit: Fixed, just used properties to get the whole link, interesting game between butterfly and FOXmoon


----------



## DoomDash

^_^. Can't wait for Turkey day!


----------



## BigFan

Darn, stream froze right as Butterfly attacked moon, although, I'm confident of who would've come out on top, but, just as the banes hit









Edit: Are you guys getting the stream freezing then unfreezing?


----------



## DoomDash

Working great for me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Working great for me.


How nice, my internet starts to act up right when I'm watching an interesting series


----------



## ThumperSD

Stream is fine for me


----------



## BigFan

Ya, I assumed it's from my end, really disappointing since he's got 5 bases now and they are going at it, this is what I was hoping to see


----------



## EgoProxy

Idra is now playing @ gsl3 via gomtv. USA USA USA! IDRA FIGHTING!


----------



## DoomDash

Game 1


----------



## ThumperSD

Mass gateway units vs hydras? worst adjustment ever. Protoss is definitely going not to win again.


----------



## DoomDash

What's with that guy getting through but not incontrol / huk. I don't even like huk but he woulda done better.


----------



## EgoProxy

bwahahah our nerd idra. xoxoxoxo


----------



## ThumperSD

^I just thought the same thing haha. He scouted the hydra den with the phoenix and just kept spamming stalker.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
What's with that guy getting through but not incontrol / huk. I don't even like huk but he woulda done better.

GSL uses an un-seeded qualifier; **** happens. He probably psyched himself out - being inside one of those giant GSL fishbowls knowing that you're facing a big-name foreign opponent probably doesn't help.


----------



## EgoProxy

"giraffe migration" strat =). whenever i random zerg I keep forgetting I can poop creep. I should use this in smaller maps.


----------



## dezshiz

the gracken vs NEXChoa was somewhat short

cant wait for slayers boxers match


----------



## ThumperSD

Just had a pretty intense game vs Zerg on Delta Quadrant. I went blink stalkers due to the map. One of the funnest 1v1 game Ive ever played. I didnt individually blink them back that well until the last battle.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant

Just noticed I only had two probes on one of my gas the whole game also. No wonder why i was so low on gas.


----------



## yks

Thumper, Misa Campo needs to come back.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Thumper, Misa Campo needs to come back.


Gotta switch it up haha.. she will be back


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Just had a pretty intense game vs Zerg on Delta Quadrant. I went blink stalkers due to the map. One of the funnest 1v1 game Ive ever played. I didnt individually blink them back that well until the last battle.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant

Just noticed I only had two probes on one of my gas the whole game also. No wonder why i was so low on gas.


That dude desperately needed a nydus network. A worm at the natural would have made it much easier to chase down your blinkers and he definitely should have had a worm at that faraway expo for defensive purposes. That expo was totally naked and he absolutely could not afford to lose it.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I thought he could have tried to sneak a nydus in my base but I have pretty good mini-map awareness now. Id snipe down that nydus first if he had it at his hidden expo. I thought he also built too many crawlers at his main.


----------



## thiru

lol @ Artosis:

"uh oh he's being cannoned... it's not the end of the world.. it's the beginning of the end" xD


----------



## thiru

facepalm.jpg


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Yea I thought he could have tried to sneak a nydus in my base but I have pretty good mini-map awareness now. Id snipe down that nydus first if he had it at his hidden expo. I thought he also built too many crawlers at his main.


Yeah it's funny because when you started attacking I kept thinking he really really needed crawlers at the main but he took a very long time ordering them, and when he finally did he went overboard and built more than he needed.


----------



## DoomDash

5 Toss in the round of 32, jeeze.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


5 Toss in the round of 32, jeeze.


meh, that's not too bad, better than 0


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


5 Toss in the round of 32, jeeze.


Has blizzard announced any nerfs/buffs at all?

I'm not so pessimistic either way, protoss players are adapting and coming up with new strategies lately. Kiwikaki's been using a really, really dirty vray/stalker/sentry/mothership macro strategy to great effect (see his match vs lalush).


----------



## thiru

I heard Guinea Pig came up with some neat stuff. Didn't watch those games.


----------



## ThumperSD

Happy turkey day to all my fellow SC2 nerds









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


5 Toss in the round of 32, jeeze.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I heard Guinea Pig came up with some neat stuff. Didn't watch those games.


Definitely better than nothing... I can only hope a protoss at least makes it to round 8


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, TBH, I'm not too big on those kind of things as in I prefer to try the different builds myself to test which is the best/fastest, etc.... To me, it seems like you are kinda cheating and takes the fun out of the game, but, my opinion










Oh well, it won't play the builds for you and it's not even humanly possible to follow the build orders it provides for more than first 5 minutes. It's just cool in terms of checking what is possible or setting benchmarks etc. It can come up with builds you wouldn't thought were possible.

Saves times as well, because you can check how fast it is possible to get, say, 3 DTs out after zealot stalker or tech to carriers without having to spend an hour in BO tester going through all the variations yourself.

Another cool app:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=171828

All the pro replays from most websites updated every 5 minutes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Oh well, it won't play the builds for you and it's not even humanly possible to follow the build orders it provides for more than first 5 minutes. It's just cool in terms of checking what is possible or setting benchmarks etc. It can come up with builds you wouldn't thought were possible.

Saves times as well, because you can check how fast it is possible to get, say, 3 DTs out after zealot stalker or tech to carriers without having to spend an hour in BO tester going through all the variations yourself.

Another cool app:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=171828

All the pro replays from most websites updated every 5 minutes.


I understand what you mean, the app just sounds like it's helping you out a little too much. I could only imagine what would happen if someone comes up with an app that plays out a SC2 with certain builds, I'm confident the game will never be the same, but, it's not gonna happen







Thanks for the new app though, +REP









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Has blizzard announced any nerfs/buffs at all?

I'm not so pessimistic either way, protoss players are adapting and coming up with new strategies lately. Kiwikaki's been using a really, really dirty vray/stalker/sentry/mothership macro strategy to great effect (see his match vs lalush).


Nothing announced as of yet.

I thought I'll share this with you guys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169820

Interesting thread, basically someone showed Day[9]'s 100th episode(haven't watched it myself) to his mom and she loved it to the point where she wrote an article about it














Day[9]'s comment is on the 3rd page, enjoy!


----------



## banded1

yea he gets pretty emotional in that vid, its a 2 hour episode, but he basically covers his whole gaming career


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
yea he gets pretty emotional in that vid, its a 2 hour episode, but he basically covers his whole gaming career

I haven't watched it yet, but, plan to although after reading the article, I do have a clue now as to how he got where he is


----------



## banded1

its a pretty good watch. ill refrain from saying anything cause of spoilers


----------



## poroboszcz

Oh damn, I just defended a 6 pool from 1800 zerg player and didn't get any points for the win and the match doesn't show up in my match history. wth


----------



## banded1

i had that happen once to me too. i beat a guy handily and then there was no evidence of the match, but i had the replay


----------



## poroboszcz

I have the replay as well. I wouldn't even mind if it wasn't against high ranked opponent. Hope it gets updated eventually.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I understand what you mean, the app just sounds like it's helping you out a little too much. I could only imagine what would happen if someone comes up with an app that plays out a SC2 with certain builds, I'm confident the game will never be the same, but, it's not gonna happen







Thanks for the new app though, +REP









Such a program actually exists and it's called AI. I used to play around with AI scripts in the beta when there was only very easy and you can script it to execute any build with perfect precision. It still sucks though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Oh damn, I just defended a 6 pool from 1800 zerg player and didn't get any points for the win and the match doesn't show up in my match history. wth

I wouldn't worry. I once had a 2vs2 game that I lost not show up in my history even though I had the game replay, but, it did the next day, maybe battle.net was just really busy so it hasn't updated it yet, my guess at least









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Such a program actually exists and it's called AI. I used to play around with AI scripts in the beta when there was only very easy and you can script it to execute any build with perfect precision. It still sucks though









I stand corrected, lol.


----------



## thiru

It happened to us once because one of our opponents went AFK and never clicked on "view scoreboard" when the game ended.


----------



## EmMure

bigfan get online damn it i finally have internet back!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
bigfan get online damn it i finally have internet back!









I was wondering where you were for a long time







I'll be on in 30-45min or so, just gotta do a couple of things first. Hopefully, you're still around then


----------



## DoomDash

turkey day is over and im stuffed. watching the boxer games i missed.


----------



## dezshiz

D: lol I cant stand dreamhack man... I'm so use to tastetosis!


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 







I was wondering where you were for a long time







I'll be on in 30-45min or so, just gotta do a couple of things first. Hopefully, you're still around then









yea ill be on lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
turkey day is over and im stuffed. watching the boxer games i missed.

Well, if you are up for a game and have fixed your problem with the game from yesterday, you'll more than welcome to join us


----------



## DoomDash

EmMure rage quit!?!!?!?!?


----------



## EmMure

Yes i rage quitt lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
Yes i rage quitt lol

Boo rage quits.


----------



## banded1

yea boo ditching your team mate

i totally won that match too...


----------



## EmMure

lol i was dead anyways haha so i gave u free min's banded hahha


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
yea boo ditching your team mate

i totally won that match too...

Sureeeee you did


----------



## banded1

lol
i killed more units than both of you put together. logic would only indicate that i win


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
EmMure rage quit!?!!?!?!?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
Yes i rage quitt lol

lol, good thing you didn't rage quit in our game on meta









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
lol i was dead anyways haha so i gave u free min's banded hahha

Well, on the bright side, he did make some zealots+stalkers but was owned by lings+MM+thors.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
yea boo ditching your team mate

i totally won that match too...









That drop was well done, but, I was expecting it since I saw the drop used against EmMule on delta









Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
lol
i killed more units than both of you put together. logic would only indicate that i win









lol, most of your kills were my slings with your tanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
lol
i killed more units than both of you put together. logic would only indicate that i win









If that were true pretty much anyone vs Zerg would always win







.


----------



## banded1

and dooms rines lol

yea i assumed you saw it coming when there were 50 lings there
if i knew that Em had a probe i would have definitely done something on that side, you guys concentrated on me for so long. im sure it wouldnt have mattered. but it would have been funny to suddenly see a bunch of toss at my base


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
If that were true pretty much anyone vs Zerg would always win







.

Pretty much, especially if all you do as Z is send upgraded slings at your opponent








Up for a 1vs1 doom in a while, although, if you're tired after those games or had enough for the day, that's understandable. I wanna play doom at his best and win


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Pretty much, especially if all you do as Z is send upgraded slings at your opponent








Up for a 1vs1 doom in a while, although, if you're tired after those games or had enough for the day, that's understandable. I wanna play doom at his best and win









Puahaha Id like to see that match


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Puahaha Id like to see that match

lol, it's supposed to be encouragement for a match, although, if i can get my macro up while holding off his pressure, I'm sure I can make some dents


----------



## DoomDash

Does anyone know info about the Terran player NTT? I played a couple ladder games tonight, and I played a guy named NTT and thought I saw it some where. Turns out I did, from the Dreamhack tournament that went on today:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=171928

So I looked it up, and I could only find one NTT with a high ladder rating, and he matches the one I played:
http://sc2ranks.com/us/1715294/ntt

Said match:


He totally got pissed @ me for doing a timing attack ( which I use to control the map until I can get an expo up ).

So anyone know anything on him?

BigFan sure. But you can't beat my Protoss yet hah.


----------



## ThumperSD

Dont think Ive ever heard of him. "Win those ladder games" LOL. Nice APM spam btw.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Does anyone know info about the Terran player NTT? I played a couple ladder games tonight, and I played a guy named NTT and thought I saw it some where. Turns out I did, from the Dreamhack tournament that went on today:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=171928

So I looked it up, and I could only find one NTT with a high ladder rating, and he matches the one I played:
http://sc2ranks.com/us/1715294/ntt

Said match:


He totally got pissed @ me for doing a timing attack ( which I use to control the map until I can get an expo up ).

So anyone know anything on him?

Sorry haven't heard of him, although, I'm quite interested in why you ask about him, since, you've said that another opponent also was pretty pissed with one of your attacks, lol.

Quote:

BigFan sure. But you can't beat my Protoss yet hah.
lol, well, I don't know all the different compositions as well as how upgrade affect them which is why I wasn't able to take down that zealot+ht+archon combo with +1 attack upgrades







Do I take that as a challenge as well?


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think knowing what to do would have saved you.. you know what to do you just don't do it ( macro ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't think knowing what to do would have saved you.. you know what to do you just don't do it ( macro ).

Well, with the amount of games I've played, I'm pretty limited in terms of droning vs. making units, as in, if I see early pressure, I try to make some units and keep droning, but, sometimes I overcommit to make sure that I don't lose against the attack and this kinda thing comes with time, so, I'm not worried. More games means more practice which leads to better macro and analysis of a situation. I think it's the idea that if I don't make some units, all you have to do is A-move into my base since I've been concentrating on macro mostly which is why I try to make some units as I drone, but, sometimes it works, sometimes not









I have yet to give T or P a try in my games and would love a game against you using them, since, I'll likely perform better due to the macro issue.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know if you will perform better. Macroing with T and P is a little different but a lot of the times your problem has nothing to do with droning or making units, in fact exactly the opposite, and doing nothing at all. Let's just say when I watch you play am often times confused as to what you are even looking at. I've seen larva sitting at your base @ both hatches doing *nothing* with 2000/600 in the bank ( and no mutas on the way ). That's exactly the same as having a bunch of barracks or gateways just sitting there doing nothing. I don't think it would be wise for you to play either of those races until you can grasp the fundamentals of the game not just Zerg. Though if you feel those races are better suited for you for other reasons go for it. Chances are if you play P or T you will be so much worse than you are with Zerg, and honestly that won't help either of us get better.

I think the one thing that kind of bugs me about your attitude, while for the most part awesome and positive.. is that you always seem to make up an excuse for the problem without just acknowledging issues better players give you as advice. I'm confident every good player would tell you to work on your spending and building more than learning what units and upgrades can do what, because as I've said its by far the biggest whole to your game. My perfect example is that game that you went roach, and very late muta vs yks... you said you shoulda got muta faster. Well guess what? That's completely false and has nothign to do with that match what so ever. You could have won with roach just fine if you spent... so why even mention something like muta. That's like, I could have won with a dark templar , but you have 10k in the bank and you lucked out because your opponent wasn't prepared for it. So, I know that you are going to give me 10 reasons justifying your reasoning behind it, and I honestly think you are putting far too much thought into something that isn't your problem at all.

But of course I'm willing to practice.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss players/ Terrans, abuse this ( lol ):

  
 You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't know if you will perform better. Macroing with T and P is a little different but a lot of the times your problem has nothing to do with droning or making units, in fact exactly the opposite, and doing nothing at all. Let's just say when I watch you play am often times confused as to what you are even looking at. I've seen larva sitting at your base @ both hatches doing *nothing* with 2000/600 in the bank ( and no mutas on the way ). That's exactly the same as having a bunch of barracks or gateways just sitting there doing nothing. I don't think it would be wise for you to play either of those races until you can grasp the fundamentals of the game not just Zerg. Though if you feel those races are better suited for you for other reasons go for it. Chances are if you play P or T you will be so much worse than you are with Zerg, and honestly that won't help either of us get better.


Well, I've played a couple of T and P games and haven't found them to be significantly different from zerg other than the early exp, but, not much experience otherwise, so, can't really comment much. I watch the map sometimes, usually to check near the opponent's base and decide where to move my units to attack. I've had a couple of cases where I'll place some mutas near an opponent's base, far enough to think that they are fine, next thing I know, one of the marines targets them and they are gone







Usually when I go mutas, I use up all the gas, so, I don't mind saving it to make 10+ mutas at once for harass and general map control. As for minerals, no reason why I have a lot, been going for a 2nd hatchery at my main but I always have a surplus, just haven't gotten to the point where I can take it down to below 300 and it'll only get worse once I start forcing myself to get a third base since I'm always stuck on two in my games. Usually I try to just go mass slings to use it, but, I'm going to venture a guess that my surplus won't go below 300 anytime soon and TBH, I don't think that's a horrible thing, since, it could allow me to quickly rebuild my base if I get some of it torn down by my opponent









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think the one thing that kind of bugs me about your attitude, while for the most part awesome and positive.. is that you always seem to make up an excuse for the problem *without just acknowledging issues* better players give you as advice. I'm confident every good player would tell you to work on your spending and building more than learning what units and upgrades can do what, because as I've said its by far the biggest whole to your game.


Not sure what you mean there, but, I've always been acknowledging that there are issues with my games, more specifically that my macro is the biggest issue followed closely by scouting, since, spreading creep is down now and my spawning larvae is improving. I've been trying to work at these issues for a while, but, things don't change overnight and definitely not when I play a game or two a day if even that(check my history to see my point). You become really rusty if you don't play a couple of games a day or at least play several to make up a day or two of no sc2.

I've been making macro my theme for any games that I played recently, since, its the biggest issue, infact, in a game I played earlier today(1vs1) and our games today(2vs2), my macro was my main focus and might've cost me the match(1vs1) since I droned a little too hard and didn't notice his attack(got my ling killed at tower). Even though in the last game my macro was rather bad, I recall having 45 drones, decent enough considering I used to have a max of 27 or so drones in my 1vs1 games(this includes drones getting gas as well :/). I also used to mostly expand for gas, now I usually have at least 10 drones mining as well which I think is a great improvement. I'll try to post that 1vs1 game from earlier today to show what I mean, since, 2vs2 games aren't exactly great to show this









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


My perfect example is that game that you went roach, and very late muta vs yks... you said you shoulda got muta faster. Well guess what? That's completely false and has nothign to do with that match what so ever. You could *have won with roach just fine *if you spent... so why even mention something like muta. That's like, I could have won with a dark templar , but you have 10k in the bank and you lucked out because your opponent wasn't prepared for it. So, I know that you are going to give me *10 reasons justifying your reasoning behind it*, and I honestly think you are putting far too much thought into something that isn't your problem at all.


I can't really recall what happened in that game since it was a while back. The thing is, you aren't seeing it from my POV, mostly since you were watching the match as an observor, you get to see it as a whole, instead of the fragments that each player sees. Is that game the delta map one, because, I do recall getting mutas rather late in that one and my macro wasn't great due to his early pressure(couple of zealots and stalkers).

I do recall getting attacked by that stalker+immortal+zealot blob by the end though. I think my reasoning was that since only stalkers can hit air, had I focused on getting a large amount of mutas+upgrades, I could focus fire them first then easily take down the immortals+zealots. I would think roaches would've been a bad idea because of the immortals mixed in with his army, that's my opinion at least.

Reasoning behind the 10k? Well, I mentioned that I can't find a way to spend it fast enough unlike the gas which I usually get it down pretty low. If I don't tell you my reasoning behind the moves/units I make, well, that's like you trying to read a book written in another language, without a dictionary(my reasoning), you just won't know what anything means(why I did what I did), since, you don't understand the language









Edit:
TL;DR I've always acknowledged that macro and scouting are my two biggest issues with my game and that's evidenced by my posts in this thread when I meant praticing my macro. I believe that one must see the game from another's POV and listen to their reasoning for their moves before coming up with a conclusion. Also, having limited game experience means that I react differently than those who have been playing a lot of SC2 and SC1 and with more games, my strategies will change a lot. Good examples are that I used to go 10 pool OL, instead now I opt for 15 exp 14 pool or so and focus more on macro while I used to focus on making units and still getting overrun as a result


----------



## dezshiz

LOL gg.


----------



## DoomDash

Fair enough. I did not mean you don't acknowledge it, I more meant that you always give a reason that makes it sound like you think you could have won with something as simple as going muta's, which from all the matches I've seen is not true. I know you realize your macro is the area you need the most work... I should have worded it different.

*edit* one more thing I'd like to add: I know you said you laddered today, and I think you should keep that up. I think you actually learn more playing people @ your actual skill level because you can adjust your build / game play a tiny little bit and see how much more effective it is against people @ the same skill level as you. Against a player who is quite a few leagues ahead of you its hard to tell if anything you are changing is actually helping you if you still get steam rolled anyway. I don't think you should give up challenging people that are way ahead of you but ladder match making system does wonders of pairing you up against good opponents for you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Fair enough. I did not mean you don't acknowledge it, I more meant that you always give a reason that makes it sound like you think you could have won with something as simple as going muta's, which from all the matches I've seen is not true. I know you realize your macro is the area you need the most work... I should have worded it different.


Well, I never meant just mutas, but, more than they would've been the and I'm using this term loosly "perfect" counter. Look at it this way. That game we played on meta(2nd one) where it was me and EmMule against you and banded. If I got that muta pack earlier, I likely would've saved my exp and my drones because you didn't have much AA, mostly marauders+tanks with 10or so marines. Would I have survived your second attack? Maybe, since, I could've focused on making slings+blings before you arrived due to the long distance, however, can't really say with 100% certainty that I would've beat those thors.

There are always things that I could've done better in my games, like pretty much everyone else such as getting a third earlier, making a certain unit or not(roaches against immortals for example), getting the upgrades or scouting an attack a bit too late to make units, etc.... For that particular game(yks one), I thought going mutas would've helped a lot since I would've concentrated my roaches+slings on his zealots+immortals and focused mutas on stalkers. I think I just interpret my games differently than you do due to my own experiences at my league









As for the laddering, well, I never planned on giving up on it, plan to keep on laddering until I decide to stop playing sc2(maybe get bored?), but, I find challenging harder opponent makes me work harder to improve my game, because, I have to grab that third or macro harder to even stand a chance otherwise I could easily win all my games in my league and I'm winning most on just 2 bases ATM which is why I rarely grab a third in our games


----------



## DoomDash

I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine







. As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang







.

As for your laddering, play hard at all times, and you will keep going up until you do hit people who are better, than you will be at the point where I was describing. I'm sure you are way over qualified for your points @ Silver right now, but I meant when your MMR / League evens out that will be ideal practice for you.

Take me for example. I'm probably pretty close to playing people exactly at my skill level, and honestly I feel this experience is much more valuable than getting crushed by huk or boxer... even if I'd prefer that







.


----------



## banded1

http://www.ustream.tv/day9tv

casting now


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine







. As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang







.

As for your laddering, play hard at all times, and you will keep going up until you do hit people who are better, than you will be at the point where I was describing. I'm sure you are way over qualified for your points @ Silver right now, but I meant when your MMR / League evens out that will be ideal practice for you.

Take me for example. I'm probably pretty close to playing people exactly at my skill level, and honestly I feel this experience is much more valuable than getting crushed by huk or boxer... even if I'd prefer that







.



To expand on playing a better player : It's going to give a scewed idea on what you are doing wrong, and won't properly prepare you for X situations.

and I think that not playing your harder @ Silver ladder is a mental weakness. Always play 100% and it will help you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine







. As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang







.


Well, with the way the game is ATM, having a certain unit can really turn the tide in your favour. Example, if a protoss decides to skip sentries and mass zealots or even just zealots+stalkers against MM, well, it could easily be GG for them depending on how well the T micro MM. The game is while I don't like to say this, a rock-paper-scissor kind of a game where for example, immortals take down roaches, but, are taken down by slings which are taken down by zealots which the roaches can take down, so, it's a circle, see my point?









I don't fully put the blame on X unit, since, I have other issues not related to making units(macro, scouting, upgrades, etc....), but, let's be honest, you can't really tell me that having mutas against that zealot+stalker+immortal comp would've been a bad idea especially when you factor in that only stalkers can hit them and since they are a blob, you can't easily focus fire them, so, the damage spreads out. I've had games where having an ultra or two with my hydras would've helped tremendously and likely won me the battle and the game since my opponent had a stalkers+colossi army, but, instead I got wiped









Edit: Well, I always play my hardest, I just win my games without ever teching up to tier 3 which isn't great since ultras and BLs can really make a difference in a game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Well, with the way the game is ATM, having a certain unit can really turn the tide in your favour. Example, if a protoss decides to skip sentries and mass zealots or even just zealots+stalkers against MM, well, it could easily be GG for them depending on how well the T micro MM. The game is while I don't like to say this, a rock-paper-scissor kind of a game where for example, immortals take down roaches, but, are taken down by slings which are taken down by zealots which the roaches can take down, so, it's a circle, see my point?









I don't fully put the blame on X unit, since, I have other issues not related to making units(macro, scouting, upgrades, etc....), but, let's be honest, you can't really tell me that having mutas against that zealot+stalker+immortal comp would've been a bad idea especially when you factor in that only stalkers can hit them and since they are a blob, you can't easily focus fire them, so, the damage spreads out. I've had games where having an ultra or two with my hydras would've helped tremendously and likely won me the battle and the game since my opponent had a stalkers+colossi army, but, instead I got wiped









But let's be more honest, having a better economy/spending is even more effective







.


----------



## ThumperSD

*** Morrow switched to zerg?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


*** Morrow switched to zerg?


You didn't know this? A very long time ago now, and a huge thread on TL. Search " From Larva to Ultralisk".


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But let's be more honest, having a better economy/spending is even more effective







.


lol, I see what you did there







Well, of course, it's more effective, since, I can get upgrades while I make units instead of making a choice between 1-2 units and an upgrade, likewise, better eco means more units produced which means I have an easier time withstanding an attack


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You didn't know this? A very long time ago now, and a huge thread on TL. Search " From Larva to Ultralisk".


Nope... he was one of my fav Terrans too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Nope... he was one of my fav Terrans too










Not me... not even close.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Not me... not even close.

Psh


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Psh










Yeah that's what I thin of Morrow







. Way better Terrans out there. If I'm mad about anyone switching its TLO.


----------



## BigFan

Promised Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

Enjoy!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah that's what I thin of Morrow







. Way better Terrans out there. If I'm mad about anyone switching its TLO.


Oh no doubt about better Terrans but I love his macro. Foreigners are pretty much a joke.


----------



## yks

I think DoomDash is just hating on Morrow for being 13, non-korean and winning euro tournaments. ;]


----------



## ThumperSD

Doom is racist


----------



## Lazorbeam

Well guys the phoenix strat is still working great. I hit 2150 last night after going on a 13-2 streak. It's funny, this whole time I was going phoenix vs zerg and vray vs terran, when it should have been the other way around.

The vray strat is extremely difficult to deal with and excels on large maps, where zerg are supposed to have a huge advantage (I think this closes the gap). Has anyone around here encountered this strat yet? I'm curious if a counter will come up any time soon, short of any early type rush that is usually expected.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I think DoomDash is just hating on Morrow for being 13, non-korean and winning euro tournaments. ;]


Wow seriously? That's impressive. I've only seen a youngster like this once before, I think the guy's name was HOT1235432 or something.

Edit: Also Flash was pretty young when he started dominating sc1.


----------



## poroboszcz

Could you post some replays please?

Also in PvZ do you go 1 or 2 stargates and do you skip warpgate before?

I've found out that opening 2 gates and faking zealot aggression then going void rays out of two stargates with skipping wg research can catch many zergs off guard. They'll usually get roaches and can lose straight away. Not sure if this would work against 1 base play though, especially 7rr or fast mutas.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Does anyone know info about the Terran player NTT? I played a couple ladder games tonight, and I played a guy named NTT and thought I saw it some where. Turns out I did, from the Dreamhack tournament that went on today:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=171928

So I looked it up, and I could only find one NTT with a high ladder rating, and he matches the one I played:
http://sc2ranks.com/us/1715294/ntt

Said match:


He totally got pissed @ me for doing a timing attack ( which I use to control the map until I can get an expo up ).

So anyone know anything on him?

BigFan sure. But you can't beat my Protoss yet hah.


I'm pretty sure I've seen some games of him against some high level players. Apparently he used to be good BW player. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/NTT


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Wow seriously? That's impressive. I've only seen a youngster like this once before, I think the guy's name was HOT1235432 or something.

Edit: Also Flash was pretty young when he started dominating sc1.


Nah, he's 18, but I exaggerate it because he looks 13.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Could you post some replays please?

Also in PvZ do you go 1 or 2 stargates and do you skip warpgate before?

I've found out that opening 2 gates and faking zealot aggression then going void rays out of two stargates with skipping wg research can catch many zergs off guard. They'll usually get roaches and can lose straight away. Not sure if this would work against 1 base play though, especially 7rr or fast mutas.

I'm pretty sure I've seen some games of him against some high level players. Apparently he used to be good BW player. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/NTT


Looks like he is from the Netherlands so I doubt it was the same guy... but maybe.


----------



## BigFan

Curious if anyone got a chance to see the replay I posted. Watching the game, I think I macroed pretty well and was back up pretty fast, although, I did let my queens pool their energy, had surplus minerals throughout and did have some larvae sitting around sometimes. I do have to say that I find my opponent's opening quite interesting


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm totally hopeless in PvZ.


----------



## ThumperSD

I will check out replay in a bit.

Hey lazor mind posting up some replays? What do you usually transition to after phoenix?i tend to get chargelots if i see him throwing down a hydra den. If i have my expo up i sometimes get colossi but im usually not a huge fan of tech switches in early game. I almost never throw up 2 stargates on one base either.


----------



## banded1

anyone see top vs inca today?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *banded1*


anyone see top vs inca today?


Nope, will watch later. Nestea v Sen was really good and I highly recommend it thought. Only 5 protoss left and they really arent that great IMO.

Nestea v Sen: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1399


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Promised Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

Enjoy!










Your macro is better but still needs some work. You should get your 3rd expo sooner and scout with your overseer. Whenever you arent attacking, try to spend as much if your resources as possible.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Your macro is better but still needs some work. You should get your 3rd expo sooner and scout with your overseer. Whenever you arent attacking, try to spend as much if your resources as possible.

True, I'm still trying to get used to taking a 3rd and my scouting hasn't been great lately. I try to make lots of slings to throw at my opponent if I have a surplus of minerals


----------



## EmMure

make heavyier stuff ! dont make slings always haha


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Could you post some replays please?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm totally hopeless in PvZ.

Then you will enjoy these replays. The two zergs are 2300/2250, the terrans are 2150/2250. The vray strategy is very defensive and promotes slow play, turtling and overbanking.

Try and guess which game I lose!

Nevermind vs Grenga
Nevermind vs Kej

Nevermind vs Nasildrip
Nevermind vs Sonik

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Promised Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

Enjoy!









I watched the game and it seemed like you vastly outskilled the protoss player, he made some very critical mistakes throughout the entire match and your play was quite sound.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm totally hopeless in PvZ.

Same. It's like, impossible.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
make heavyier stuff ! dont make slings always haha

lol, well, all other units aside from OLs and queens including most structures cost gas and it's the minerals that I want to use up, so, I might just start to make a lot of OLs, likely do some more upgrades, since, that's a better usage for minerals and make more hatcheries, as in another 2+ depending on the surplus









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
Then you will enjoy these replays. The two zergs are 2300/2250, the terrans are 2150/2250. The vray strategy is very defensive and promotes slow play, turtling and overbanking.

Try and guess which game I lose!

Nevermind vs Grenga
Nevermind vs Kej

Nevermind vs Nasildrip
Nevermind vs Sonik

I'm gonna say Sonik, lol, haven't watched them yet, but, I'll definitely be taking a look









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
I watched the game and it seemed like you vastly outskilled the protoss player, he made some very critical mistakes throughout the entire match and your play was quite sound.

Thanks, I try







In your opinion, anything big that needed some work? I know that I still have some more issues to iron like scouting, because, I saw that first attack when it neared the tower so I prepared but lost a decent number of drones while my roaches were coming, should've left that sling infront of his ramp









Likewise, droning was better than in some of my games and I think I recovered pretty well(41 drones), although, if I consider 2drones/mineral patch and 3 for gas, I should've had a minimum of 48 which I didn't but will be working towards that as well as getting a 3rd which I didn't in that game. I think that roach attack wasn't bad once I got a chance to micro it but he got a decent surround at the start with his zealots which could've been pretty bad.

I do have to admit that I liked how he started, as in he got +1 attack because he knew that he might be seeing a lot of lings and that zealots would 2-shot them now instead of 3, but, I think his biggest mistake was relying on them too much and switching to stalkers a little too late


----------



## EmMure

u wanna do some 2v2 in about 30 mins fan?

my buddy just passed fenix from fnatic in his ladder lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
u wanna do some 2v2 in about 30 mins fan?

my buddy just passed fenix from fnatic in his ladder lol

Unfortunately, I'm heading to bed, work in the morning







Although, we can probably get a couple going tommorrow if you'll like, maybe around 8-9ish or so


----------



## banded1

the things people do to artosis lol

  
 You Tube


----------



## thiru

I didn't notice there were so many bogus names


----------



## banded1

mana vs socke
i lol'd

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4436285/

woops bit of a spoiler... fixed


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Then you will enjoy these replays. The two zergs are 2300/2250, the terrans are 2150/2250. The vray strategy is very defensive and promotes slow play, turtling and overbanking.

Try and guess which game I lose!

Nevermind vs Grenga 
Nevermind vs Kej

Nevermind vs Nasildrip
Nevermind vs Sonik


Thanks. Haven't seen PvT's yet, but do you often die to 6pools playing like this? Also with nexus before forge do you have cannons up on time against 7rr? And wouldn't some zergs seeing this just double expand?

I assume if you see mutas you get phoenix instead of vr, right?

I liked how you use mothership.


----------



## DoomDash

I just had like, the 2 easiest wins vs Z's in ladders today. One guy did a 7RR on Steps but I did a 2-3 rax marine push which at least stalled long enough to put up some rax and get marauders / tanks. 2 tanks out, walked right in for the win. Second game was on Scrap Station, and I did my Boxer build ( barracks at the high ground of my own nat ), which confused the piss out of him. You use the raxs to block the area on the low ground near the 3rd base ( BigFan I did this vs you ). I also threw up a bunker at his nat which actually made him cancel his hatch. He then tried to proxy hatch me, but I saw it, and waited for it to complete. After it was done is when I sent my units in, and he lost a 300 hatch







. I then started moving through the rocks with rines and siege tanks .. after he attacked his side of the rocks and got shot by my siege tank he just said GG and left! lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Thanks. Haven't seen PvT's yet, but do you often die to 6pools playing like this? Also with nexus before forge do you have cannons up on time against 7rr? And wouldn't some zergs seeing this just double expand?

I assume if you see mutas you get phoenix instead of vr, right?

I liked how you use mothership.


He used mothership's in his replays? Wow, I'm even more excited to watch them now







Personally, think the mothership is underused and underrated as its potential is great and can be game changing









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just had like, the 2 easiest wins vs Z's in ladders today. One guy did a 7RR on Steps but I did a 2-3 rax marine push which at least stalled long enough to put up some rax and get marauders / tanks. 2 tanks out, walked right in for the win. Second game was on Scrap Station, and I did my Boxer build ( barracks at the high ground of my own nat ), which confused the piss out of him. You use the raxs to block the area on the low ground near the 3rd base (* BigFan I did this vs you *). I also threw up a bunker at his nat which actually made him cancel his hatch. He then tried to proxy hatch me, but I saw it, and waited for it to complete. After it was done is when I sent my units in, and he lost a 300 hatch







. I then started moving through the rocks with rines and siege tanks .. after he attacked his side of the rocks and got shot by my siege tank he just said GG and left! lol.


lol, it confused me as well which was the reason that I didn't expect the banshees


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Thanks. Haven't seen PvT's yet, but do you often die to 6pools playing like this? Also with nexus before forge do you have cannons up on time against 7rr? And wouldn't some zergs seeing this just double expand?

I assume if you see mutas you get phoenix instead of vr, right?

I liked how you use mothership.


You don't see "trick" plays often past 2000, as they are too unsafe. RR was popular for a bit, but I haven't seen a single one this week. Generally, I'll go forge first against a pool -> hatch and nexus first vs hatch -> pool.

Zergs very often double expand, which leads to a macro game, and that's fine. I'll make a 1-2 phoenix to scout, but even vs muta VRs are fine (with stalker support).


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan get on lets play. yks would rather wow.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan get on lets play. yks would rather wow.


Give me 15-30min or so, need to do something first, but, I'm game


----------



## DoomDash

OK um, if you had steam or aim to bug me when you are ready that would be nice ( look in my sig for my info ). if not ill check back here, post when you are ready.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


He used mothership's in his replays? Wow, I'm even more excited to watch them now







Personally, think the mothership is underused and underrated as its potential is great and can be game changing









lol, it confused me as well which was the reason that I didn't expect the banshees










Me and a friend did a 2v2 monobattle with mothership and ghosts. Epic stuff.

Although IMO nuke timing should be ~18 secs so the enemy will unknowingly throw all his units into the vortex before you put down the nuke


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK um, if you had steam or aim to bug me when you are ready that would be nice ( look in my sig for my info ). if not ill check back here, post when you are ready.


I do have steam, just never on it, don't have aim though







I'm logging in now, see you on the battlefield









Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Me and a friend did a 2v2 monobattle with mothership and ghosts. Epic stuff.

Although IMO nuke timing should be ~18 secs so the enemy will unknowingly throw all his units into the vortex before you put down the nuke










Nice, never thought about vortexing your own units when someone nukes, very intriguing


----------



## EmMure

way to log on tonight jerk face!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
way to log on tonight jerk face!

lol, well, I was on for a couple of hours. Played a couple of games with doom. I think I recall you might have logged in but didn't get any pm about wanting to play a game or two









Thought you guys might be interested in this: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...4721415?page=1
Good read so far, really makes me want to go back to play sc1 for the story again, since, I don't remember most of it(only the major idea of what happened)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
mana vs socke
i lol'd

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4436285/

woops bit of a spoiler... fixed









speaking of which, i'm sure most of you have seen it, but man i am so impressed with the winner's control of his units versus the looser in naama vs darkforce


You Tube


----------



## ThumperSD

All of this QQ about protoss being UP is annoying... Personally I think protoss is the most balanced race


----------



## Obsidian

Well there do seem to be the least number of elite level players (at least in GSL) as Protoss. It's still my favorite race though.


----------



## ThumperSD

From what Ive seen in GSL 3 (Didnt catch much of GSL 1 or 2), the protoss players really arent that good compared to the zergs/terrans


----------



## thiru

Get your copy now!


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan get on lets play. yks would rather wow.


only cause xpac is coming out soon.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## DoomDash

+1.


----------



## yks

Being a Cella Fanboy, I am pleased to announce that Cella has finally found a new team.

He is the 2nd person to join SlayerS, behind JyS.

Boxer's very own personal team for SC2, sponsored directly by Intel.

To be handpicked by Boxer himself, you just gotta be proud of yourself.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I was so proud when he picked me. JK.


----------



## thiru

I bet Boxer is a secret Cella fanboy.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's called bromance. I can see it happening yeah. BTW foxer vs fruitdealer games on hd was pretty good.


----------



## Mr.Zergling

Well just checking back in, right after I posted in here the first time, I got promo'd to silver (yay for no more disconnects!) and then today I got promo'd to gold.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


From what Ive seen in GSL 3 (Didnt catch much of GSL 1 or 2), the protoss players really arent that good compared to the zergs/terrans


NextGenius...winner of the Blizzcon tournament is already out of the GSL.. Huk didn't even qualify..


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
NextGenius...winner of the Blizzcon tournament is already out of the GSL.. Huk didn't even qualify..

I know, I watched it live. Pretty disappointing. I dont know how Tester keeps getting disqualified.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I know, I watched it live. Pretty disappointing. I dont know how Tester keeps getting disqualified.

It will be interesting to see what if any balance changes Blizzard will make if Zerg wins the GSL for the 3rd time in a row.


----------



## thiru

Blizzard doesn't care. They don't look at the outcome.


----------



## ThumperSD

But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.

I really hope Tester will qualify in season 4


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Blizzard doesn't care. They don't look at the outcome.

Do you really think that? They made a poster for TheFruitDealer in the first one. I think they watch at least the round of 8 and further and talk to the pros before and after.

Quote:

But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.
I agree. If anything I think that Protoss doesn't have enough build orders. There is so few options to surprise your opponent and not all in.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Do you really think that? They made a poster for TheFruitDealer in the first one. I think they watch at least the round of 8 and further and talk to the pros before and after.

Well of course they do. But they don't make changes by looking at one game, especially a finals where each player has builds planned and will have gone through several layers of metagaming throughout the games. They don't look at individual games. If zerg invents a new strat, then Blizzard will wait and see if it can be stopped. If it's not a new strat, then it's just additional data.

The fact that zerg has won 2 GSL is irrelevant, especially since during the first GSL zerg were considered UP.


----------



## ThumperSD

Protoss lacks build orders so they are more predictable than the other races but at the same time protoss build orders are very solid. I can honestly say I lose to all three races evenly hence why I say protoss is not UP. I used to have problems with terran with some practice but force field, I can usually fend off an early MM push. The reason why Blizzard put FF in the game is to help them survive early pushes where protoss army is generally UP (unless you 4 gate). FF basically evens this out.

Each race just requires different play styles. Terrans have a lot of all-ins, zerg has a powerful late game while protoss is kind of in the middle. With protoss it is very important to keep as many if your units alive as possible considering they are the least cost efficient race; shields have to be used to its full advantage. At the same time, protoss has a very powerful late game once you mix in colossi/HT storm with your unit composition. That's one of the reasons why i chose protoss as I want to balance micro and macro.


----------



## DoomDash

I killed Zeratul last night for fun.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Protoss lacks build orders so they are more predictable than the other races but at the same time protoss build orders are very solid. I can honestly say I lose to all three races evenly hence why I say protoss is not UP. I used to have problems with terran with some practice but force field, I can usually fend off an early MM push. The reason why Blizzard put FF in the game is to help them survive early pushes where protoss army is generally UP (unless you 4 gate). FF basically evens this out.

Each race just requires different play styles. Terrans have a lot of all-ins, zerg has a powerful late game while protoss is kind of in the middle. With protoss it is very important to keep as many if your units alive as possible considering they are the least cost efficient race; shields have to be used to its full advantage. At the same time, protoss has a very powerful late game once you mix in colossi/HT storm with your unit composition. That's one of the reasons why i chose protoss as I want to balance micro and macro.

I dunno, I mean build orders can be good and all, however, you also need to be flexible in your game, so, if you mostly focus on a specific build, you might have a harder time adapting to your opponent, keyword there being might. I find with most protoss I play again, they go for zealot+stalker+colossi or stalker+sentry+colossi army. I rarely see air units in play which is a shame since I believe that the mothership is a great unit









Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
It will be interesting to see what if any balance changes Blizzard will make if Zerg wins the GSL for the 3rd time in a row.

Doubt they will make any, agree with thiru on this one. They watch the games for sure, but, they wouldn't change Zerg just because they win the GSL for the 3th time. Personally, don't really care how they change any race including Zerg, I'm more than happy to adapt to the new stats









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I bet Boxer is a secret Cella fanboy.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I killed Zeratul last night for fun.

huh? What are you talking about? You mean in one of the sc2 missions or did you play an sc1 mission?









Anyone up for a game? I'll be trying to aim to be on in 30min-1hr for a game or two since it's getting pretty late


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.

Ladder doesn't really mean much. The way it works will always try to make you get around 50% w/l ratio and can't be used to make conclusions about balance. Also while protoss is the most represented race in diamond, it is the least represented one in top 200. So protoss isn't really doing that great.

The tournaments are much better benchmark and GSL #3 is just ridiculous. I predict there won't be a single protoss by RO16.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I agree. If anything I think that Protoss doesn't have enough build orders. There is so few options to surprise your opponent and not all in.

The thing is that early game protoss is usually forced to play in a specific way, so it's really hard to come up with new openings. Especially in PvT you're pretty much forced to get robo and going any other tech path is just a blind shot. At the same time terran can open almost anything and be safe.

I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:

Quote:

oGsMC (P)
Q. Protoss isnâ€™t doing very well.
A. In in-house leagues, I feel that protoss is very hard to play. Zerg became stronger, and PvT became more of a build order risk.

cOreZenith (P)
Q. Protoss hasnâ€™t been doing well in the last 2 seasons.
A. They have to nerf marauders. They should also return the old range of 3 to roaches. I also wish they would bring back the old zealots. Protoss is so hard.

NEXChoa (P)
Q. Are you confident about the main event?
A. Iâ€™m confident in PvT but playing against zerg is difficult. I want to avoid PvZâ€™s as much as possible.

SlayerS_BoxeR (T)
Q. We are expecting a strong showing from zergs this season.
A. Zergs found a way to win even with smaller sample of representation. Now, more zergs are participating, because zerg became better. I hope that trend continues, so that the development team realizes something is wrong. I really hope zergs have a strong showing, but I hope I'm not one of their preys.

Genius decides to change race -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...urrentpage=All (*it has been suggested by many, and logically so, that he may not be serious, you can trust him, or not)

Fruitdealer says PvT, the P needs a buff at the season 2 qualifiers when sSKS failed to qualify

sSKS and SangHo thinks TvP is OP, in fact in the GOM TV Clan Special []http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...pic_id=166818]
sSKS got 1st place inside TSL by defeating SangHo in the finals AS Terran and says , "terrans op"

Fruitdealer says zerg is op in GSL S3 Interview After Ro64 win

KyrixZenith says zerg is op when he won GSL All-Stars

HongUnPrime says zerg roaches are over powered with recent buff

sSKS and InCa said they were considering changing race because of imbalance in Gisado's stream chat (not sure how serious they were, they COULD have been joking around, I personally think they were)*
*
*


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:

Interesting, although, one example that struck me as being odd was the second one where he mentions that Blizzard should reverse roach range, zealot time AND nerf marauders. Since I've been playing P more lately, I can see where his point about marauders comes from. Unless you master ff or go 2 gate robo and chrono that first immortal for the marauders, zealots+stalkers are eaten alive by MM especially if your opponent stims, targets stalkers/sentries first and then kites the zealots







I'm not sure I would agree with the zealot time because I thought the purpose of that was to prevent 2 gate rushes which were hard to stop by Z as I recall. As for roach range, not sure either


----------



## DoomDash

The only way marauders should be nerfed is if Protoss tier 3 units are nerfed. I have no problem with Marauder being nerfed if they balance out the late game Protoss units to make up for it. Though if the Marauder is nerfed they better nerf the roach as well because that **** will be nuts. In its current form the roach is probably a little too good, especially vs Protoss. vs Terran its OK but if you nerf the Marauder you better nerf the roach.. or I'll take a slight siege tank vs armored buff.

I don't think the Marauder is the problem though.. I think it's that the banshee forces robotech which gives T so many more options, and P a very predictable play style. Maybe hallucinated observers!?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I killed Zeratul last night for fun.

U mad









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Ladder doesn't really mean much. The way it works will always try to make you get around 50% w/l ratio and can't be used to make conclusions about balance. Also while protoss is the most represented race in diamond, it is the least represented one in top 200. So protoss isn't really doing that great.

The tournaments are much better benchmark and GSL #3 is just ridiculous. I predict there won't be a single protoss by RO16.

The thing is that early game protoss is usually forced to play in a specific way, so it's really hard to come up with new openings. Especially in PvT you're pretty much forced to get robo and going any other tech path is just a blind shot. At the same time terran can open almost anything and be safe.

I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:

Blizzard said they are taking a lot of things into account including GSL results, ladder and pro player's opinions. That's really the right thing to do. They shouldnt just look at stats and number as much as to why protoss is doing so well/bad. In GSL, I can honestly say that protoss players really arent as good as zerg/terran players. Stats can be misleading.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
The only way marauders should be nerfed is if Protoss tier 3 units are nerfed. I have no problem with Marauder being nerfed if they balance out the late game Protoss units to make up for it. Though if the Marauder is nerfed they better nerf the roach as well because that **** will be nuts. In its current form the roach is probably a little too good, especially vs Protoss. vs Terran its OK but if you nerf the Marauder you better nerf the roach.. or I'll take a slight siege tank vs armored buff.

I don't think the Marauder is the problem though.. I think it's that the banshee forces robotech which gives T so many more options, and P a very predictable play style. Maybe hallucinated observers!?

That sounds reasonable. Or maybe increase stalker attack speed (or higher damage) while nerfing T3.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL 10 minutes!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
GSL 10 minutes!

I need to sleep "early" for once... guess it will have to be another day


----------



## dezshiz

F#$%$ NOOOO o well looks like i am going to get my internet capped


----------



## DoomDash

What?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm going to sleep like normal people.


----------



## dezshiz

We have capped internets in Australia... like you can only use 50 GB per month depending on your plan.. when u go over it gets throttled


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dezshiz*


We have capped internets in Australia... like you can only use 50 GB per month depending on your plan.. when u go over it gets throttled


Wow. That's horrible.


----------



## thiru

That was a surprising game.


----------



## DoomDash

What's with the lack of baneling speed?


----------



## thiru

FruitDealer likes to play dangerously


----------



## DoomDash

Guess he doesn't need it.


----------



## thiru

Lol FruitDealer was thankful.

Guys, why is this thread rated 4 stars? VOTE NOW!


----------



## DoomDash

I already had voted it up to 5 stars after seeing it got 4.


----------



## thiru

Mmh I don't know liquid Ret much but the few games I saw were impressive.

Which foreigner do you guys think is going to make the farthest?

edit: holy crap he's PUMPED UP lol

and nervous


----------



## DoomDash

I think Ret will. But we will see.


----------



## thiru

Holy creep that's some hardcore macro


----------



## DoomDash

Mass siege tanks vs Brood Lords.


----------



## thiru

Yeah that's some bad army composition lol
and expansion was a bad decision too

Go ret!

edit: Ret, the only SC2 player to drink a real beverage, coffee


----------



## Obsidian

What's happening with these fOu players that were so dominate in the first round? They seem to be making so many mistakes in the round of 32; it's like they're not even the same team.

I think the best foreigner is Idra. He has to face IMmvp in his next match though so he might not make it the furthest. That should be a great match.


----------



## thiru

Crap I completely missed this game lol


----------



## DoomDash

No thumbs downing maps in this GSL is the worst thing ever. I feel like this won't give us an accurate way of seeing how the game really is right now.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No thumbs downing maps in this GSL is the worst thing ever. I feel like this won't give us an accurate way of seeing how the game really is right now.


Wow serious? I was wondering why these TvZs had so many maps that zerg don't like.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow that was nuts. I blame the maps.. that sucked ass for Ret.


----------



## Obsidian

It seems to make things a lot easier for Terran. I think maybe they just didn't want three Zerg winners in a row.


----------



## thiru

Carrier arrived!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all.


Ladder success is a completely, completely worthless statistic. I don't even know why Blizzard published it. Would you consider bronze stats important? No, because the players at these ratings don't understand the game yet. Same goes for silver, gold, and 90% of diamond.

I hear a lot of "protoss doesn't have good players" but I think this is total bunk. There are tons of good players and it's no statistical anomaly that only a handful make it far as protoss.

Edit: I think protoss could be buffed without changing any units. For one, we should be able to warp in units on the minimap. Terran and zerg can make units on the fly, while protoss has to move vision back to their base to make units. Very annoying.

You guys are correct when you say there aren't many openers as protoss. I think the issue is that protoss is too vulnerable early game, any kind of early aggression can result in total rape vs equal armies.


----------



## poroboszcz

I have a quick question. What to do if you opened 13 forge at natural and you scout zerg going 7rr?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I have a quick question. What to do if you opened 13 forge at natural and you scout zerg going 7rr?


I don't see 7rr much, but on a small map I'd imagine you're in trouble. Slap down 1-2 canons asap and completely block entrance with a gateway?

Edit: Plus you shouldn't really 13 forge on a small map... generally you go 9 pylon -> scout, which should help in making a decision.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'm going to sleep like normal people.


you don't sleep like normal people? Mind if I ask how you sleep then?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Carrier arrived!


It's "Carrier *has* arrived!"









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Ladder success is a completely, completely worthless statistic. I don't even know why Blizzard published it. Would you consider bronze stats important? No, because the players at these ratings don't understand the game yet. Same goes for silver, gold, and 90% of diamond.

I hear a lot of "protoss doesn't have good players" but I think this is total bunk. There are tons of good players and it's no statistical anomaly that only a handful make it far as protoss.

Edit: I think protoss could be buffed without changing any units. For one, we should be able to warp in units on the minimap. Terran and zerg can make units on the fly, while protoss has to move vision back to their base to make units. Very annoying.

You guys are correct when you say there aren't many openers as protoss. I think the issue is that protoss is too vulnerable early game, any kind of early aggression can result in total rape vs equal armies.


To add, personally, I find that both P and Z are really vulnerable early game and only T seems to be in a good position to do some harass. It would be great if you could harass with Z because I personally would, but, doing a bane bust or just attacking with lings early on usually after they block the entrance to their base is futile and will result in a lot of lost units, better to use the minerals for workers


----------



## Sainesk

is there a successful terran build without stim packs? I don't think i've seen 1 match in GSL where Terran didn't get stim, or is it just me?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


is there a successful terran build without stim packs? I don't think i've seen 1 match in GSL where Terran didn't get stim, or is it just me?


That's like saying you never saw a protoss not research warpgates or a zerg not use inject larvae. It's the bread and butter of terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


That's like saying you never saw a protoss not research warpgates or a zerg not use inject larvae. It's the bread and butter of terran.


Pretty much, I mean I can go without getting the queen early and get lair tech, but, even then with only 3 larvae, I'll be overrun by my opponent quite fast especially if I'm droning hard, although, the argument could be that you could do 15 exp which is a standard now for most Zergs and get 2 queens from that as you drone and tech to lair, but, there are drawbacks to that as well, especially since Z is all about macro









*Originally Posted by DoomDash 
No thumbs downing maps in this GSL is the worst thing ever. I feel like this won't give us an accurate way of seeing how the game really is right now.*

I think the idea that you can't thumb down maps is great for one reason. As a pro, you should be able to adapt your playing style(don't exp early until you've gotten enough units for example) to the map and your opponent. This is the one reason that I don't have any maps thumbed down including Steppes of War(short distance) or Jungle Basin(free exp). I'll much rather play those maps and learn how to deal with my opponent's early rush or faster attacks than just thumb them down and forget that such maps exist. Of course, this is also the case for P and T.


----------



## rhed5

The no-vetoing of the maps happened because everyone was vetoing the same exact maps and you were seeing the same maps over & over again for each matchup.

A terrible decision, leading to some players with a near impossible chance of advancing, but then these are the exact maps being used in ladder. Some of which are just terrible; the reason why everyone votes off the same maps for each MU.

Blizzard sucks at making maps(always did) and hopefully in the future, we will have some more balanced maps, even if it takes some non-blizz maps like iccup maps


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


The no-vetoing of the maps happened because everyone was vetoing the same exact maps and you were seeing the same maps over & over again for each matchup.

A terrible decision, leading to some players with a near impossible chance of advancing, but then these are the exact maps being used in ladder. Some of which are just terrible; the reason why everyone votes off the same maps for each MU.

Blizzard sucks at making maps(always did) and hopefully in the future, we will have some more balanced maps, even if it takes some non-blizz maps like iccup maps


Blizzard should really just have a panel of pros design the maps.


----------



## Nevaziah

So, which maps do you guys usually veto off in your 1v1 ladders? *AND WHY*.
Just post something like this:

Steppes of war
Reason: because i play protoss and I find that terrans can easily push me and box me in my base because of the quick rush distance.

I dont take off any of them because on each map I have a specific objective depending on the matchup and the terrain that I am trying to get better at. The ONLY map I ever took off was desert oasis and it was because when you were at the bottom spawn, a terran could just siege up at your north-east and shell your mineral line without harassment.
I saw that once and i just took it off. Less than a week later, the map was removed from the ladder list







.
I play random and I am NOT interested in abusing or facing something that ONLY one race can take advantage of and that can loose someone the game so easily.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


So, which maps do you guys usually veto off in your 1v1 ladders? *AND WHY*.
Just post something like this:

Steppes of war
Reason: because i play protoss and I find that terrans can easily push me and box me in my base because of the quick rush distance.

I dont take off any of them because on each map I have a specific objective depending on the matchup and the terrain that I am trying to get better at. The ONLY map I ever took off was desert oasis and it was because when you were at the bottom spawn, a terran could just siege up at your north-east and shell your mineral line without harassment.
I saw that once and i just took it off. Less than a week later, the map was removed from the ladder list







.
I play random and I am NOT interested in abusing or facing something that ONLY one race can take advantage of and that can loose someone the game so easily.


I generally don't thumb any maps, and if I do it's to practice certain strategies. Right now I'm playing on any big map, as I'd like to work on my macro and late game strategies.


----------



## rhed5

As a general guideline, the closer the distances better for terran, while longer the distances better for zerg. Protoss wants to be as far away from terran while close to zerg.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


So, which maps do you guys usually veto off in your 1v1 ladders? *AND WHY*.
Just post something like this:

Steppes of war
Reason: because i play protoss and I find that terrans can easily push me and box me in my base because of the quick rush distance.


I fast expand against terran on steppes of war and rarely ever have any problems.









I voted down blistering sands because I feel as a protoss I need to four gate every game on it and it gets quite boring. Hate the back entrance.

Also voted down Jungle Basin because I had bad initial impression of it and again, it has a backdoor. I feel kind of lost on this map, probably need more practice. Maybe I'll start playing on it once I figure out some stable builds.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Ladder success is a completely, completely worthless statistic. I don't even know why Blizzard published it. Would you consider bronze stats important? No, because the players at these ratings don't understand the game yet. Same goes for silver, gold, and 90% of diamond.

I hear a lot of "protoss doesn't have good players" but I think this is total bunk. There are tons of good players and it's no statistical anomaly that only a handful make it far as protoss.

Edit: I think protoss could be buffed without changing any units. For one, we should be able to warp in units on the minimap. Terran and zerg can make units on the fly, while protoss has to move vision back to their base to make units. Very annoying.

You guys are correct when you say there aren't many openers as protoss. I think the issue is that protoss is too vulnerable early game, any kind of early aggression can result in total rape vs equal armies.


I disagree there. Yes bronze stats are worthless but diamond stats should mean something as people know how to play the game. Balancing should be made for diamond/plat ladder and GSL.

Like I said, I dont judge protoss based on GSL stats. I watch the protoss matchups and analyze the player's skill. I feel that protoss players' skill is a bit inferior to the terran/zerg players. I see room for improvement for players like Genius. Yes he is one of the best protoss but he could have played better games at GSL. That's my observation. Stats really dont tell the whole story.

I dont know, maybe Im just unbiased.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont know, maybe Im just unbiased.


I lol'd


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


So, which maps do you guys usually veto off in your 1v1 ladders? *AND WHY*.
Just post something like this:

Steppes of war
Reason: because i play protoss and I find that terrans can easily push me and box me in my base because of the quick rush distance.

I dont take off any of them because on each map I have a specific objective depending on the matchup and the terrain that I am trying to get better at. The ONLY map I ever took off was desert oasis and it was because when you were at the bottom spawn, a terran could just siege up at your north-east and shell your mineral line without harassment.
I saw that once and i just took it off. Less than a week later, the map was removed from the ladder list







.
I play random and I am NOT interested in abusing or facing something that ONLY one race can take advantage of and that can loose someone the game so easily.


Although, I did mention this in a previous post, I'll rephrase it below and give some more details:
I used to have steppes thumbed down at one point. Likewise, I used to have Scrap Station a long time ago and was also thinking about Jungle Basin or possibly Sakuras Plateau. Any games that I played on Scrap Station, Jungle Basin and Sakuras Plateau usually ended in a loss, it was really annoying to see the map and realize that you've never won on it before. I still haven't won on Sakuras Plateau to this very day, lucky for me, I'm not getting it much now







Anyways, I decide to unthumb them, because, I wanted to be able to play against any opponent regardless whether he is favoured on a certain map or not because it'll allow me to improve my game. One has to be flexible in his playstyle and adapt to his opponent to win in a game. Of course, studying how your opponent plays also helps, but, this isn't the GSL









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I fast expand against terran on steppes of war and rarely ever have any problems.









I voted down blistering sands because I feel as a protoss I need to four gate every game on it and it gets quite boring. Hate the back entrance.

Also voted down Jungle Basin because I had bad initial impression of it and again, it has a backdoor. I feel kind of lost on this map, probably need more practice. Maybe I'll start playing on it once I figure out some stable builds.


Well, the backdoor of Blistering Sands and Jungle Basin add another element to the gameplay. The only difference is that now your opponent can move his ground units into your base from 2 possible entrances which means that you have to split your army or at least create some barriers(pcs) while your army relocates to fend off his attack. I think those backdoors add another element to the game, like the Xelnaga towers and since you play P, a trick that I assume would work well was to put a pylon behind the rocks to wrap in units. In terms of getting vision for the wrap in, ask Cory, he'll know how he did it in our game


----------



## DoomDash

I agree with Thumper 110%, at least as far as the NA Protoss players go. I've seen so many top NA Protoss players just throw away games being stupid, and I can't say the same about T and Z players. I do think some of the korean pros like sSks ( tester ) are much more solid, but all these new openers coming out are still being learned. I do think that Protoss needs some adjustments, some buffs, and some nerfs... but I don't know how to properly go about doing it. I do know that protoss tier 3 ( colossus and templar ) is nuts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I agree with Thumper 110%, at least as far as the NA Protoss players go. I've seen so many top NA Protoss players just throw away games being stupid, and I can't say the same about T and Z players. I do think some of the korean pros like sSks ( tester ) are much more solid, but all these new openers coming out are still being learned. I do think that Protoss needs some adjustments, some buffs, and some nerfs... but I don't know how to properly go about doing it. I do know that protoss tier 3 ( colossus and templar ) is *nuts*.

I can only assume you mean amazingly good









Anyone up for a game?


----------



## BigFan

I just played a custom ZvsZ against a random platinum player. The game was a constant back and forth and even though, I took an early hit, I managed to come back and win the game







I think he could've played better, but, I was able to catch his off guard several time and scouted throughout the game








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

Interesting thing about that website, if you look at my zerg strategies used, they are either 11.11%, 22.22% or 44.44%









Edit: Watched replay, definitely some things he could've done better, won't say what they are to prevent replay spoilage, lol.


----------



## yks

Anyone know where I can get VODs from last nights GSL? Preferably the English ones.

Free VODs that is. Can't pay the 15 for GOM


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Anyone know where I can get VODs from last nights GSL? Preferably the English ones.

Free VODs that is. Can't pay the 15 for GOM

Looking for this: http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=3
Was posted a while ago in this thread


----------



## banded1

sorry i missed your message bigfan, i went afk for a a bit, you going to be on later?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
sorry i missed your message bigfan, i went afk for a a bit, you going to be on later?

np banded, had some interesting custom games as P and Z







I'm aiming to be on in an hour or so to get a couple of games, so, hopefully, I'll be on, lol


----------



## banded1

sweet ill see you then, taking a break now


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
sweet ill see you then, taking a break now











Interesting use of storm in sc1:


You Tube





Guessing that was NaDa on the receiving end


----------



## ramenbuoy

just made div rank 7 in diamond with toss. anyone wanna do 2v2?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## xHassassin

Made 2v2 Diamond yesterday, came in as 4th. Stopped cheesing and dropped to rank 12 after 5 games, won 2 lost 3.

I'm cool.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Made 2v2 Diamond yesterday, came in as 4th. Stopped cheesing and dropped to rank 12 after 5 games, won 2 lost 3.

I'm cool.


cheese, cheese, the ultimate strategy, the more you cheese the more you win.

haha


----------



## Sainesk

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy*   cheese, cheese, the ultimate strategy, the more you cheese the more you win.

haha  
unless you're this guy

  
 You Tube  



 
 sorry if it's been posted before...


----------



## DoomDash

Being back on my old computer sucks. I do have a nice monitor for it though.


----------



## ThumperSD

You waiting for your 580?


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah. I took the sticker off the back of the 480 because I was worried it would kinda melt onto it... so I'm hoping that doesn't cause issues. I'll be kicking myself in the ass if it does. I looked through the rules and I didn't see anything mentioning it so lets cross our fingers.

I hate playing SCII on this computer. I'm noticeably 4x worse. Guess I'll ladder on huggle







.

BTW I just played a few games on huggle. I'm surprised how bad even some 2000+ players are. It's strange because my MMR on DoomDash must be pretty good.. noticeably much better players I'm playing on there compared to huggle even if my opponents are the same ratings. Maybe it's in my head though who knows.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im telling you dude, have someone get you a temporary card from Fry's and return it. They 14 day policy I think.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't have any fry's locally to me. Plus, w/e I can live for 2 weeks. I need a PS3.


----------



## ThumperSD

Another protoss bites the dust


----------



## DoomDash

Leenock way out played him. Leenock is damn impressive.


----------



## ThumperSD

I liked the way he played against Clyde too


----------



## DoomDash

For sure.


----------



## ThumperSD

Void ray action? Pretty abusable on this map

Edit: called it out!


----------



## DoomDash

I frickin hate that void ray build. So good. I started building bunkers at my ramp for a block after that ****.


----------



## ThumperSD

Never build your stuff at the choke on that map vs protoss


----------



## DoomDash

Hyperdub not impressive.


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea that was too easy for both Leenock and MC. Im interested to see what MC can do late game. Hopefully the next matchup will be better.


----------



## DoomDash

JulyZerg!


----------



## yks

motherfreaking july vs jang min chul for ro16. who the hell do you vote for.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I disagree there. Yes bronze stats are worthless but diamond stats should mean something as people know how to play the game. Balancing should be made for diamond/plat ladder and GSL.

Like I said, I dont judge protoss based on GSL stats. I watch the protoss matchups and analyze the player's skill. I feel that protoss players' skill is a bit inferior to the terran/zerg players. I see room for improvement for players like Genius. Yes he is one of the best protoss but he could have played better games at GSL. That's my observation. Stats really dont tell the whole story.

I dont know, maybe Im just unbiased.


The game develops as you move up in rankings. In bronze, zealots rule because players don't know how to kite with marines. In these ladders, you can win like 80% of matches from zealot rushes alone.

The same analogy applies in lower diamond brackets, where 75% of matches are cheese. Players still need to learn very key mechanics. You can't balance the game around this. For example, zerg players don't yet know how to do the magic box trick, or how to do baneling drops. These are both key tricks that you'll see only in high rated diamond matches. The game needs to be balanced where all races are used to their fullest potential - I'd say this is around 2600+ diamond, not the full ladder itself. Doing so produces very, very flawed data.

If you look at 2600+ ladder stats, I'm sure you'll find that protoss representation is very similar to what we're seeing in GSL. Quite strange given that we KNOW that protoss is played the most often.


----------



## rhed5

Thumper has no clue what he's talking about.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


The game develops as you move up in rankings. In bronze, zealots rule because players don't know how to kite with marines. In these ladders, you can win like 80% of matches from zealot rushes alone.

The same analogy applies in lower diamond brackets. 75% of matches are cheese. Players still need to learn very key mechanics. You can't balance the game around this. For example, zerg players don't yet know how to do the *magic box trick, or how to do baneling drops*. These are both key tricks that you'll see only in high rated diamond matches. The game needs to be balanced where all races are used to their fullest potential - I'd say this is around 2600+ diamond, not the full ladder itself. Doing so produces very, very flawed data.

If you look at 2600+ ladder stats, I'm sure you'll find that protoss representation is very similar to what we're seeing in GSL. Quite strange given that we KNOW that protoss is played the most often.


I've been meaning to try that bane drop ever since I saw a tutorial on how to do it, but, haven't had the chance yet. For anyone planning to attempt it, after selecting all of your OLs and moving them, you have to press D or click the unload button on each one, unfortunately, you can't just press D and get all of them to unload at the same time.

I'm still kinda surprised that you mention that this trick isn't used by diamonds other than the high-level ones especially considering how effective it could be if done at the correct time. I do agree with everything else though, people just whine too much instead of learning all the ins and outs of their race, good thing Blizzard considers pro comments as well as high-level diamond players(likely). Can't wait to see what the next big patch is gonna include


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I'm still kinda surprised that you mention that this trick isn't used by diamonds other than the high-level ones especially considering how effective it could be if done at the correct time.


Because it's hard! Fruitdealer does it so naturally it blows my mind.

If blizzard balanced the game around platinum/low diamond, high level zerg players would go around raping everything due to advantages such as the aforementioned magic box or baneling drops.

Speaking of banelings, I'm curious to see if blizzard will announce any nerfs to the unit. I hardly _ever_ see them as protoss, but even at 2300 players still don't know how to do attack + overhead baneling drop.

In terms of ZvT, I see a lot of whining from terran players, especially in matches where the terran uses marines exclusively -_-. From what I've seen, zerg has the advantage in this matchup, so a change may be required somewhere.


----------



## rhed5

The influx of the Foxer style 2 rax push is because terrans feel that's one of the only options of taking the game to zerg. If you don't play aggresive and play a macro game, it's really tough for terran as zerg can outpump drones so much faster.

Regarding banelings; they are really effective, but I don't think they're the reason why TvZ is tough. It's not even that awfully imbalanced, however terran's have had continously been nerfed and the amount of cards they had early game were seriosuly reduced. You always had to do damage to zerg early game , before it was reapers and going rax first before supply to punish expanding zergs, but with the patches, those strategys aren't viable anymore.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Because it's hard! Fruitdealer does it so naturally it blows my mind.

If blizzard balanced the game around platinum/low diamond, high level zerg players would go around raping everything due to advantages such as the aforementioned magic box or baneling drops.


Is it really that difficult to perform? I mean I understand that you have to put some resources into OL transport+speed and those resources can be better spend on your army, but, all you have to do is load up the banes into OLs, send in your slings first and then move your OLs over their army and press drop. It can't be that difficult to do, of course, I'm thinking my league level here so that's probably why I don't see the difficulty of it. I would also think someone of your level would have np doing it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Speaking of banelings, I'm curious to see if blizzard will announce any nerfs to the unit. I hardly _ever_ see them as protoss, but even at 2300 players still don't know how to do attack + overhead baneling drop.

In terms of ZvT, I see a lot of whining from terran players, especially in matches where the terran uses marines exclusively -_-. From what I've seen, zerg has the advantage in this matchup, so a change may be required somewhere.


Well, I'm sure you know this already but, banes are really inefficient against P because it's 20(35 vs armored) but, really awesome against T especially if they go MM due to the marines' low hp and their light armor designation plus their large splash. Unless they have foxer micro, they aren't getting away without losing their whole army to my blings especially if I get the blings speed upgrade which is a necessity









I once played a T who went mass marines on Xelnaga cavern. At one point, he attacked with 72 marines at once against my slings+blings army. I had map control and knew when the attack was coming, so, I caught his army right before they arrived at my base near a choke(I was at the bottom) and took a decent # of it down with blings before he reacted, the rest was finished by queens, some slings and crawlers. My point was that Blizzard should *not* be balancing the game around the first unit for each race, as in zealots, marines and zlings, but, I doubt they will do that. I do think they might nerf banes slightly, maybe less against buildings or lower their light damage(30 instead of 35) or possibly their splash, but, I'm hoping that they don't crazy nerf them because banes hard counter marines, kinda like his immortals hard counter thors or phenoixes hard counter mutas


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Is it really that difficult to perform? I mean I understand that you have to put some resources into OL transport+speed and those resources can be better spend on your army, but, all you have to do is load up the banes into OLs, send in your slings first and then move your OLs over their army and press drop. It can't be that difficult to do, of course, I'm thinking my league level here so that's probably why I don't see the difficulty of it. I would also think someone of your level would have np doing it









Well, I'm sure you know this already but, banes are really inefficient against P because it's 20(35 vs armored) but, really awesome against T especially if they go MM due to the marines' low hp and their light armor designation plus their large splash. Unless they have foxer micro, they aren't getting away without losing their whole army to my blings especially if I get the blings speed upgrade which is a necessity










It becomes hard to perform when you're dealing with an opponent that does more than just stand there. A good terran will spread out his forces and OLs need to be micro'ed accordingly (play a fruitdealer fight in slow motion and see what I'm talking about). You also need to micro the rest of your army simultaneously.

Edit: also, in macro games where everything is moving so fast, setting up the drop must be done FAST.

Fruitdealer has used baneling drops vs protoss and it's very effective, especially for sniping colossi sitting in the back and obliterating everything. But I think corruptors are better for this







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


The influx of the Foxer style 2 rax push is because terrans feel that's one of the only options of taking the game to zerg. If you don't play aggresive and play a macro game, it's really tough for terran as zerg can outpump drones so much faster.

Regarding banelings; they are really effective, but I don't think they're the reason why TvZ is tough. It's not even that awfully imbalanced, however terran's have had continously been nerfed and the amount of cards they had early game were seriosuly reduced. You always had to do damage to zerg early game , before it was reapers and going rax first before supply to punish expanding zergs, but with the patches, those strategys aren't viable anymore.


Well, mules can really help with your macro bigtime and medivacs really help as well, since, we don't have such a mechanism(zerg units heal over time). Personally, I don't think they should've changed it for rax first, but, even then, laying an engineering bay at a Z's exp and using units such as thors to absorb bane damage should be something that Ts consider especially consider a thor's 400 hp can absorb over 20 banes which is a huge mineral/gas loss for the Z player, although, a smart player would manevour them behind the thor. I think drops should be used more often and tanks should be used more as well. If you can take down a Z's expo, they are pretty much done for from my experience. I think reapers are still viable but their speed upgrade made them a bit easier to counter


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


It becomes hard to perform when you're dealing with an opponent that does more than just stand there. A good terran will spread out his forces and OLs need to be micro'ed accordingly (play a fruitdealer fight in slow motion and see what I'm talking about). You also need to micro the rest of your army simultaneously.

Edit: also, in macro games where everything is moving so fast, setting up the drop must be done FAST.

Fruitdealer has used baneling drops vs protoss and it's very effective, especially for sniping colossi sitting in the back and obliterating everything. But I think corruptors are better for this







.


lol, true. Wouldn't something like shift+move to designate the pass of your OL so that you don't have to worry about controlling it other than the unload help a lot, because, for some reason, I seem to recall FD doing it or at least someone mentioning he does it? It would allow you to micro your army as well, so, your opponent will have to decide against the lesser evil to defend against.

You also need to consider that even if you spread your marines out, even foxer would have a hard time microing them all almost at once against multiple baning drops, at least that's what I would think, but, I haven't seen many of his games so I can't comment more. As for the colossi thing, yes, doom posted about a thread on here addressing this and how banes are effective due to their splash+large size of colossi, but, I haven't tried it yet either


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
Because it's hard! Fruitdealer does it so naturally it blows my mind.

If blizzard balanced the game around platinum/low diamond, high level zerg players would go around raping everything due to advantages such as the aforementioned magic box or baneling drops.

Speaking of banelings, I'm curious to see if blizzard will announce any nerfs to the unit. I hardly _ever_ see them as protoss, but even at 2300 players still don't know how to do attack + overhead baneling drop.

In terms of ZvT, I see a lot of whining from terran players, especially in matches where the terran uses marines exclusively -_-. From what I've seen, zerg has the advantage in this matchup, so a change may be required somewhere.


I never see any T's use marines exclusively. I do marine rushes early and transition out. Marine rushes are really awesome against Z actually... and IMO the only way to keep Zerg from pulling way ahead these days. Before I did these marine pushes I was finding that if I didn't win with a timing attack I just wouldn't win period. With the marine pushes I can actually end up on equal footing for the mid-game for once.

As for Protoss I don't really feel sorry for them.. only maybe slightly against Zerg. Also bane drops aren't that hard my 2000 Zerg buddy does them effectively and he isn't 2600+. Ladder rating means jack for the most part. Read my post on the last page about the difference in skill I've noticed on two different accounts, against people the same scores.


----------



## ramenbuoy

dammit I got bumped down to 4th in the ocn ratings. I WAS IN FIRST THEN I STOPPED PLAYING FOR 2 WEEKS ***.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
dammit I got bumped down to 4th in the ocn ratings. I WAS IN FIRST THEN I STOPPED PLAYING FOR 2 WEEKS ***.

I don't remember you ever being in first.


----------



## rhed5

Who's first?
Debating if I should start laddering. Would no doubt accelerate my balding though


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Who's first?
Debating if I should start laddering. Would no doubt accelerate my balding though









You should start laddering. You are a good player and certainly capable of getting a high ladder score. It's fun man.. been telling you to do it.

Nevermind is Lazerbeam @ #1. Cory1234 is Inferno at #2.

You're the only one with with more wins than losses on this forum against me that I play so far. Though I don't know what is is about you we always have some really ****ing crazy close matches that you end up pulling out of your ass! But that's a good thing







. I think I will work on my Z more cause I think Z will still be better than my Terran in the long run.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I never see any T's use marines exclusively. I do marine rushes early and transition out. Marine rushes are really awesome against Z actually... and IMO the only way to keep Zerg from pulling way ahead these days. Before I did these marine pushes I was finding that if I didn't win with a timing attack I just wouldn't win period. With the marine pushes I can actually end up on equal footing for the mid-game for once.

As for Protoss I don't really feel sorry for them.. only maybe slightly against Zerg. Also bane drops aren't that hard my 2000 Zerg buddy does them effectively and he isn't 2600+. Ladder rating means jack for the most part. Read my post on the last page about the difference in skill I've noticed on two different accounts, against people the same scores.

One of last month's most discussed replays on Gosugamers, I forget who was playing. TvZ with terran making only marines and medivac. He QQs about banelings and wins the game anyway. I was exaggerating and generally terrans seem to use a pretty good mix though.

Bane drops are easy if the opponent is a sitting duck. They get hard once the enemy starts kiting you, and you need to micro surround, fungal growth and micro individual overlords. In a fast-paced game you need to do this on the fly, with units coming from all over the place. It's pretty intensive.

I'm sure you've noticed a difference in skill between players of the same score. I just don't see how an extremely small sample size of anecdotal data is evidence of ratings meaning "jack ****". SC2 ratings are just like chess ratings - they're absolutely representative of skill, particularly at higher rankings.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah just saying a 2200 player doesn't mean better than a 2000 player. Generally probably it does, but not always. The people I'm playing on my huggle account that are 2200 are easy, and the people I play at 2200 on DoomDash are much much harder. Blizzard has said that sc2ranks.com isn't accurate idea of world rankings because you can only truly get an accurate rank with MMR, and your rating is more accurate in just your own division.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah just saying a 2200 player doesn't mean better than a 2000 player. Generally probably it does, but not always. The people I'm playing on my huggle account that are 2200 are easy, and the people I play at 2200 on DoomDash are much much harder. Blizzard has said that sc2ranks.com isn't accurate idea of world rankings because you can only truly get an accurate rank with MMR, and your rating is more accurate in just your own division.

I agree wholehartedly with this. I have beaten some 14-1500 level diamonds (as a 1700 platinium) and I thought they were HORRIBLE, and im a PLATINIUM PLAYER!








Points in divisions cant be all there is. I wish we could see the MMR.

I have played against some 1500 to 1800 platiniums that just seemed unbeatable no matter how well I played. They seemed on the ball against my early preassure, or were able to keep up with my expos or had insane micro skills and came up on top in close battles.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Who's first?
Debating if I should start laddering. Would no doubt accelerate my balding though









I think you should, it's quite fun and at least your opponents are at your level









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You should start laddering. You are a good player and certainly capable of getting a high ladder score. It's fun man.. been telling you to do it.

Nevermind is Lazerbeam @ #1. Cory1234 is Inferno at #2.

You're the only one with with more wins than losses on this forum against me that I play so far. Though I don't know what is is about you we always have some really ****ing crazy close matches that you end up pulling out of your ass! But that's a good thing







. *I think I will work on my Z more cause I think Z will still be better than my Terran in the long run.*

hmm, thinking of jumping ships?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah just saying a 2200 player doesn't mean better than a 2000 player. Generally probably it does, but not always. The people I'm playing on my huggle account that are 2200 are easy, and the people I play at 2200 on DoomDash are much much harder. Blizzard has said that sc2ranks.com isn't accurate idea of world rankings because you can only truly get an accurate rank with MMR, and your rating is more accurate in just your own division.

True, because, a 2200 in one diamond league isn't at the same level as in another. I think something like 20 pages back or so, we were talking about this and how some diamond league are better than others









Anyone up for a game or two?


----------



## DoomDash

No jumping ships. Zerg is just easier to win with for me. I still will play Terran as my main, but I will continue to keep my Zerg played occasionally as well just in case.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No jumping ships. Zerg is just easier to win with for me. I still will play Terran as my main, but I will continue to keep my Zerg played occasionally as well just in case.

hmm, maybe it's just me, but, I think you play Z much better than T


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
hmm, maybe it's just me, but, I think you play Z much better than T









Well I agree with you... but it's the experience in X situation I lack as Zerg. I'm sure I'd lose a ton of games not dealing with X properly... where my Terran I'm already pretty familiar with that situation. That's really the only thing holding me back from doing at least all Z on huggle. I do love Terran though, and I picked them up for the same reason I avoided them in SC1, I found them the most challenging for me to play specifically. Zerg macro has made sense to me ever since beta, way beyond Terran macro.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well I agree with you... but it's the experience in X situation I lack as Zerg. I'm sure I'd lose a ton of games not dealing with X properly... where my Terran I'm already pretty familiar with that situation. That's really the only thing holding me back from doing at least all Z on huggle. I do love Terran though, and I picked them up for the same reason I avoided them in SC1, I found them the most challenging for me to play specifically. Zerg macro has made sense to me ever since beta, way beyond Terran macro.

I find zerg easier, honestly.
But ZvZ sucks.


----------



## rhed5

The reason I play random is I can jump ship whenever a race is the flavor of the month. Just wait till protoss is buffed, i'll be on that like a baneling to marines


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
The game develops as you move up in rankings. In bronze, zealots rule because players don't know how to kite with marines. In these ladders, you can win like 80% of matches from zealot rushes alone.

The same analogy applies in lower diamond brackets, where 75% of matches are cheese. Players still need to learn very key mechanics. You can't balance the game around this. For example, zerg players don't yet know how to do the magic box trick, or how to do baneling drops. These are both key tricks that you'll see only in high rated diamond matches. The game needs to be balanced where all races are used to their fullest potential - I'd say this is around 2600+ diamond, not the full ladder itself. Doing so produces very, very flawed data.

If you look at 2600+ ladder stats, I'm sure you'll find that protoss representation is very similar to what we're seeing in GSL. Quite strange given that we KNOW that protoss is played the most often.

Hmm Im not sure where you are getting your info...

Then the game should be balanced for high level diamonds and pros. There are still 64 protoss players in the top 200 in NA which is 32%. Not even close to GSL's protoss representation.

I wouldnt mind seeing the game only balanced for high diamonds. But that still makes ladder relevant and therefore not completely useless. Just watch GSL 3. Most of the protoss players arent that great. Ive been observing their play. Again, you cant just count on stats as they are extremely misleading. I hope Blizzard is taking the same approach on balancing.

I dont know if youre exaggerating but I RARELY see cheese in diamond. At most 1 out of 10 matches. And even if there is occasional cheese, it's a part of the game. It makes the game interesting and forces players to double check for cheese.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
Thumper has no clue what he's talking about.

Oh please. State where I dropped falsed info.


----------



## rhed5

Again you spew rubbish. Everything you just said was terrible. From GSL protoss's being terrible, 1 in 10 cheese in diamond ladder. Everything.


----------



## ThumperSD

Again, where did I post false info? Everything I stated on there is fact. Prove me wrong, *I challenge you*. Because you posts proves nothing.


----------



## DoomDash

A lot more legends in SC1/BW were T and Z .. not a huge surprise that carried over.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
I find zerg easier, honestly.
But ZvZ sucks.

True that.


----------



## ThumperSD

This thread should be used for intelligent discussions so get out if you want to troll. When a guy says what I say is terrible with nothing to support it, it ticks me off.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
A lot more legends in SC1/BW were T and Z .. not a huge surprise that carried over.

July impressed me just as much as Leenock. He looks like he really knows how to play on non-zerg favored maps. Id be very surprised if these guys dont at least make it to the semi-finals.

Im interested to see what Boxer and Choya will do tonight.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well I agree with you... but it's the experience in X situation I lack as Zerg. I'm sure I'd lose a ton of games not dealing with X properly... where my Terran I'm already pretty familiar with that situation. That's really the only thing holding me back from doing at least all Z on huggle. I do love Terran though, and I picked them up for the same reason I avoided them in SC1, I found them the most challenging for me to play specifically. Zerg macro has made sense to me ever since beta, way beyond Terran macro.

You know, I'm in the same boat for both T and P. I just played two games against banded as P. I kept a constant watch throughout the whole second game with observors knowing when he exp'd and knew exactly what was going on. In our second game, he mostly massed marauders+marines+some tanks at start at which point I attacked him losing most of my force, but, I felt it was necessary from having his army become a big ball of death, lol. Then he went mass marauders+some marines+2-3 thors with 5 medivacs, so, I got 6 VRs(originally to take down a PF at his exp) and had some zealots+stalkers+some sentries+3-4 immortals with +1-2 attack upgrades. He obliterated my army, took down my exp and I gg'd after.
I think my problem is that I still don't have the info required to deal with a mass of units as in how much of my units will be enough to deal with his, likewise, I still don't ff properly and messed up my storms in the first game. Did I meant I got one colossi in my first and none in my second?







In my case though, I don't plan to jump to T or P, most likely go random but Z is my best by far ATM









Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
The reason I play random is I can jump ship whenever a race is the flavor of the month. Just wait till protoss is buffed, i'll be on that like a baneling to marines


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True, because, a 2200 in one diamond league isn't at the same level as in another. I think something like 20 pages back or so, we were talking about this and how some diamond league are better than others









I don't get this logic. How is 2000 points in one division different than 2000 points in another division? I see no link between division you're in and points you get.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Then the game should be balanced for high level diamonds and pros. There are still 64 protoss players in the top 200 in NA which is 32%. Not even close to GSL's protoss representation.

I dont know if youre exaggerating but I RARELY see cheese in diamond. At most 1 out of 10 matches. And even if there is occasional cheese, it's a part of the game. It makes the game interesting and forces players to double check for cheese.

There's 51 protoss in top 200 on US and 50 on EU. That's exactly 25%, a bit less one would expect given that most diamond players play protoss.

Speaking of cheese, have you guys seen player called PiqLiq? He's currently #1 on NA ladder and he's like the master of cheese. Hilarious to watch.


----------



## ramenbuoy

I was in first for a brief hour or 2 cuz I won 15 in a row


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I don't get this logic. How is 2000 points in one division different than 2000 points in another division? I see no link between division you're in and points you get.

There's 51 protoss in top 200 on US and 50 on EU. That's exactly 25%, a bit less one would expect given that most diamond players play protoss.

Speaking of cheese, have you guys seen player called PiqLiq? He's currently #1 on NA ladder and he's like the master of cheese. Hilarious to watch.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169830

That thread. Super complicated. I'm in a S class division.

Quote:

I was thinking about this today, and I think I understand why Blizzard do it the way they do.

Firstly it's obvious that they want divisions to have all players of roughly equal skill right? That's why some divisions have stronger players and some weaker, but why would that be? surely for accuracy's sake it would be better to have a sample of good players, mediocre players and weaker players in each division so that I could see my division rank and have an accurate idea of how good I am... maybe, but this is not Blizzard's goal and never has been.

Look at the players in your division, check out the players near the top and then the ones at the middle and then the ones at the bottom, notice a pattern? it's almost universal in every division that there is a direct relationship between games played and division rank.

If everyone in the division is of the same skill level, then the only way people are going to have more points than others is by playing more games. Your almost NEVER see a guy with 100 games ranked higher than someone with 200 games in the same division. Why? because if the guy with 100 games was significantly better he would be put in a higher tier of division to begin with.

Why would they do this? It's really ingenious. Basically anyone in the entire world can be #1 (or at least top 10) in their division if they just play enough games (with the possible exception of the very highest tier), the system has made sure that people who may not be that good are put in a division with others who aren't that good and can still feel that they are actually good.

The points modification is just the icing on the cake, people would kind of feel something was up if they were top of their division on only 1500 points... it would be really obvious about the weaker divisions, but if that gets inflated to 1815 points then it doesn't seem so bad, and certainly the guy who played 1000 games to get to the top of his E-class division can look at his point total and consider himself among the best in the world.

End result - people have a reason to keep playing, people are constantly rising in their division as long as they play enough games, and points totals remain roughly consistent with people who play more games = have more points.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I don't get this logic. How is 2000 points in one division different than 2000 points in another division? I see no link between division you're in and points you get.

There's 51 protoss in top 200 on US and 50 on EU. That's exactly 25%, a bit less one would expect given that most diamond players play protoss.

Speaking of cheese, have you guys seen player called PiqLiq? He's currently #1 on NA ladder and he's like the master of cheese. Hilarious to watch.

Well, blizzard themselves mentioned this, so, take it up with them?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
I was in first for a brief hour or 2 cuz I won 15 in a row


----------



## esproductions

Who's up for some 3v3 or 4v4 right now?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
There's 51 protoss in top 200 on US and 50 on EU. That's exactly 25%, a bit less one would expect given that most diamond players play protoss.

Speaking of cheese, have you guys seen player called PiqLiq? He's currently #1 on NA ladder and he's like the master of cheese. Hilarious to watch.

You're right. I was looking at the outdated top 200.


----------



## Masterchief3k

i keep losing. i really suck at starcraft


----------



## ThumperSD

So much nerd rage on Bnet. People need to learn how to handle losing. They either rage quit or pause the game just to piss u off.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah some Z player said "You're terrible" after I beat him today. I said : " what does that say about you? ".


----------



## ThumperSD

It wouldnt be Bnet without ragers. Im finding that 2gate stargate is a really good opening build. Im going to be using it more often now.


----------



## pcNub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


So much nerd rage on Bnet. People need to learn how to handle losing. They either rage quit or pause the game just to piss u off.


You gotta be a jerk back and unpause the game on your side


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Masterchief3k*


i keep losing. i really suck at starcraft


Well, practice makes perfect. I was going on 6-7 losing streaks, but, I'm now having a much easier time against any race(hardest, but, most exciting is Z due to micro and macro battles)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah some Z player said "You're terrible" after I beat him today. I said : " what does that say about you? ".


lol, that's actually rather funny. If I lost a game, I can always point to several things that I messed up that cost me the game, everything from being outmacroed, to outmicro'd, better unit composition, better unit/structure placements, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


So much nerd rage on Bnet. People need to learn how to handle losing. They either rage quit or pause the game just to piss u off.


Thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...0287087?page=1
PvsZ thread in protoss section, originally started as a discussion of a post by a member on TL, but, has since degraded into a constant stalker/roach battle, lol, although, there are interesting points being raised


----------



## BigFan

Just had my first game as a P against Z(isn't that a nice way to start playing P







) and I won, lol, although, I'm wondering if there was a disconnect on his end, because, it was an abrupt end. I'll let you guys be the judges of that







Either way, I would say I had the upper hand in the game with the way it was going especially at the start.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...in#rd:upgrades

Couple of things I messed up:
- Pylon placement at start, lucky for me, I was able to fit a cannon near it








- Macro great at start, lacking towards the end
- Too much minerals and gas stocked up
- I should've gotten a robobay(how did I go without this? lol)
- Was a bit slow in terms of getting more wrapgates
- Getting stargates before wrapgates *could've* been a bad idea(idea was to snipe OLs to supply block him and keep muta count managable)
- Should've pressured a lot more

Any further mistakes I made(I'm sure I made a ton) that you guys can add to that would help. Considering it was my first P game on the ladder, I would say I did a decent job but made many mistakes, likewise my Z opponent made many especially when looking at the way he played Z. I should mention that I was going for hts(researched storm for mass mutas) and possibly dts before the game abruptly ended. Before anyone mentions this, I placed those pc around, because, I had a surplus and knew that I'll be facing the possibility of mutas, so, better be prepared


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Just had my first game as a P against Z(isn't that a nice way to start playing P







) and I won, lol, although, I'm wondering if there was a disconnect on his end, because, it was an abrupt end. I'll let you guys be the judges of that







Either way, I would say I had the upper hand in the game with the way it was going especially at the start.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...in#rd:upgrades

Couple of things I messed up:
- Pylon placement at start, lucky for me, I was able to fit a cannon near it








- Macro great at start, lacking towards the end
- Too much minerals and gas stocked up
- I should've gotten a robobay(how did I go without this? lol)
- Was a bit slow in terms of getting more wrapgates
- Getting stargates before wrapgates *could've* been a bad idea(idea was to snipe OLs to supply block him and keep muta count managable)
- Should've pressured a lot more

Any further mistakes I made(I'm sure I made a ton) that you guys can add to that would help. Considering it was my first P game on the ladder, I would say I did a decent job but made many mistakes, likewise my Z opponent made many especially when looking at the way he played Z. I should mention that I was going for hts(researched storm for mass mutas) and possibly dts before the game abruptly ended. Before anyone mentions this, I placed those pc around, because, I had a surplus and knew that I'll be facing the possibility of mutas, so, better be prepared











Watched it:

1) Way way way too late on your gate, and for no reason ( plenty of money )

2) Poor chrono boosting the entire game. Chrono boosting units with out a clear sense of a timing push is also kind of wasteful ( but better than nothing ). You chrono boosted +1 attack once at most with plenty of energy ( think of this as wasted spawn larvas or mules )

3) No clear sense of direction through out the game. Lots of money, no teching until super late... and you went stargate AND twlight near the same time.

4) super duper duper duper duper late Cybercore. Very bad to do that as toss.. you need it for stalker / sentry BAD.. and warpgate BAD.

5) Poor macro / spending the entire game. Expanded too late,poor probing ( chrono more of these ) didn't spend your money, didn't chrono, ect.

6) Wasted phoenix. Made 4, hardly used them at all.

7) Don't want that pylon at his nat to supply block you if killed

8) Not enough probes

9) Did not transfer your workers from main to expo when finished.

10) No units to a hotkey? How can you stand that? No individual hotkeys to nexus's? How can you stand that? I move around with my hotkeys... if I want my main I hit 55, if I want my expo I hit 66, if i want my main army, i hit 11.

many many more... but thats all i can remember.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL 20 minutes! Super duper stacked day!


----------



## ramenbuoy

g-g-g-ssslllll

playing a game right now. gomtv is booted on my other comp


----------



## esproductions

yay 5am gsl


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah 4 am for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Sexy play by Jinro.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Again, where did I post false info? Everything I stated on there is fact. Prove me wrong, *I challenge you*. Because you posts proves nothing.


dude... like the other guy said protoss has about 50 guys in top 200, not 33% like you claimed. get your facts straight.


----------



## poroboszcz

HuK has to have the worst taste in music ever. WTH is he playing on his stream, lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...Isnt-StarCraft

I lol'd.


----------



## thiru

Hahaha


----------



## ahilal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Masterchief3k* 
i keep losing. i really suck at starcraft

One of the commentators I was listening to the other day said that even top-ranked players have a win rate of only 70% or so. Anyone know if that is true? Losing a lot of games may just be part of playing


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ahilal* 
One of the commentators I was listening to the other day said that even top-ranked players have a win rate of only 70% or so. Anyone know if that is true? Losing a lot of games may just be part of playing









Everyone in the ladder who has stabilized at their level has a win rate of 50%, except the bottom of bronze league and the top of diamond league. So yeah the really good players have 60% to 75%.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Watched it:

1) Way way way too late on your gate, and for no reason ( plenty of money )

*True, I was really late getting all my gates, not sure why, I think my reasoning was that I needed some units to defend against any early pushes. Basically, I usually find that when you are playing the match, since, you don't know what going to happen next, better to be safe than sorry. I should mention that I'm considering the start of the game here where my minerals were rather low and getting those units felt more important than getting an extra gate or two since I could always lay down a couple after defending any pushes







*

2) Poor chrono boosting the entire game. Chrono boosting units with out a clear sense of a timing push is also kind of wasteful ( but better than nothing ). You chrono boosted +1 attack once at most with plenty of energy ( think of this as wasted spawn larvas or mules )

*Well, I agree that some of my chronoboosts weren't necessary, but, I think chronoboosting to get wrapgate tech, that +1 upgrade and several units at the start was a good idea. When he attacked with that first group of roaches, had he kited my zealots and tried to push, he might've won that battle because I didn't have a large enough army to repel it but that ff I laid at the ramp helped out. I also thought cb's phenioxes was a decent idea mostly for the OL harass(I'll talk about this later).*

3) No clear sense of direction through out the game. Lots of money, no teching until super late... and you went stargate AND twlight near the same time.

*Somewhat true, this problem seems to *somewhat* extend to my Z games as well. I don't think it's a horrible thing, since, it would mean that I can go any tech depending on what my opponent does, but, I usually try to have some plan in mind which I adapt to my opponent's play. For that game, I was mostly thinking the usual zealot+stalker+sentries and also phenoixes.*

4) super duper duper duper duper late Cybercore. Very bad to do that as toss.. you need it for stalker / sentry BAD.. and warpgate BAD.

*That's a lot of dupers, lol, but, true, very late cc. I've seen most pros go 1 gate/1 cc and then go from there. I just didn't want my cc near my gates incase of an attack that takes it down which would push me back, but, at the same time, not blocking against a zerg opponent would've been a bad idea if he decides to do a sling run, so, I laid that pylon near my base and got it after my exp, should've gotten it after the pylon finished







*

5) Poor macro / spending the entire game. Expanded too late,poor probing ( chrono more of these ) didn't spend your money, didn't chrono, ect.

*I didn't notice the time of my exp, but, as I recall my supply was 34 or so. TBH, I really thought my exp in that game was decent enough in terms of timing, since, my Z opponent didn't even seem to consider an exp at that point. I also thought I did a decent job of macroing if I consider the worker count(had 41 throughout most of the game, watched this when watching the replay and was always ahead on gas, min of even on minerals), but, I agree my spending was really bad and I should've gotten more wrapgates much early for a timing push with an army, because, I could've taken that game had I pushed out especially with that stalker blob I had by the end, lol.*

6) Wasted phoenix. Made 4, hardly used them at all.

*Disagree with this. I did some scouting which gave me a good idea of what he was doing(roaches and mutas at the time). I also took down a queen, almost got another, took out some OLs to supply block him and did at one point. I also kited and took down 3 mutas and by the end, found his OL stack, lol, and took down 2 before the game ended. Could they have been used better? Likely, since, I don't claim to be a pro at all and I missed an OL near the yellow crystal patch, but, when I consider what I took down(cost) and my casualties(lost 1-2), I think they were worth it, even just for the scouting, although one would do there







*

7) Don't want that pylon at his nat to supply block you if killed

*While I agree with this and I did get supply blocked when that happened, I'll much rather delay his exp had he went 15 exp then facing an eco zerg.*

9) Did not transfer your workers from main to expo when finished.

*True, didn't until my main was almost completely out, although, I did cb a lot of probes and rallied them to my mineral line when I was exp'd in the game, so, it wasn't as bad as when I used to only expand for gas as Z, lol.*

10) No units to a hotkey? How can you stand that? No individual hotkeys to nexus's? How can you stand that? I move around with my hotkeys... if I want my main I hit 55, if I want my expo I hit 66, if i want my main army, i hit 11.

*







You just sound so passionate there, lol







You either haven't seen my Z games(I'm sure you've seen them, so, can't be this) or you never paid attention to hotkeys in my games. I rarely use them. The most I've used the hotkeys was to put my hatcheries on 1, queens on 2 and use the 1 to select larvae to make units on the fly, likewise, use 2 to spawn larvae using minimap, otherwise, their use is very limited in my games.*

many many more... but thats all i can remember.

Thanks for the comments, will be considering some of them next time I get P when playing random


----------



## Lazorbeam

Sweet mother of god, you need to start using hotkeys extensively. How do you pull your army back if there's a surprise attack?

1-2-3 = army
4 = hatcheries
5 = queen
6 = queen
7 = queen
8 = queen
9 = upgrade buildings

Protoss:
1-2-3 = army
4 = nexii
5 = gates
6 = robo
7 = stargates
8 = obs
9 = upgrade buildings

Or something like that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
Sweet mother of god, you need to start using hotkeys extensively. How do you pull your army back if there's a surprise attack?

1-2-3 = army
4 = hatcheries
5 = queen
6 = queen
7 = queen
8 = queen
9 = upgrade buildings

Protoss:
1-2-3 = army
4 = nexii
5 = gates
6 = robo
7 = stargates
8 = obs
9 = upgrade buildings

Or something like that.

lol, I've just gotten used to moving around the map pretty fast, since, there were no hotkeys in sc1 and I've been moving around the map using the mouse when I started playing sc2, guess it's pretty natural to me, so, I can manage them to move them back without using hotkeys, but usually, I kept a constant watch for any attacks using the map+minimap+xelnaga towers, so, I'll realize when an attack is coming and move them to the required area(like when his roaches came from the back of my exp). I agree though, should use them more


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ahilal* 
One of the commentators I was listening to the other day said that even top-ranked players have a win rate of only 70% or so. Anyone know if that is true? Losing a lot of games may just be part of playing









The w/l ratio of 55% is already pretty high. Most top ladder players have 53%-60% win percentage. Only the very few players in the world manage to maintain around 70% w/l ratio. According to sc2ranks there's roughly 30 players with over 60% wins.

So yeah, no matter how good you are, given how the ladder system works, you should assume that you're going to lose half of your games.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, I've just gotten used to moving around the map pretty fast, since, there were no hotkeys in sc1 and I've been moving around the map using the mouse when I started playing sc2, guess it's pretty natural to me, so, I can manage them to move them back without using hotkeys, but usually, I kept a constant watch for any attacks using the map+minimap+xelnaga towers, so, I'll realize when an attack is coming and move them to the required area(like when his roaches came from the back of my exp). I agree though, should use them more









There were hotkeys in sc1







.

Just think about it, all that time you spend clicking the minimap would become pure useful micro.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
There were hotkeys in sc1







.

Just think about it, all that time you spend clicking the minimap would become pure useful micro.

I should've probably clarified that. I never used them since I mostly played the campaign a lot and some MP with mostly friends against AI, so, there was never a need for them









I should also mention that I just realized that I was confusing hotkeys with control groups. I do use hotkeys when making units from my hatchery, likewise from cc or nexus and know the hotkeys for some units, but, still a lot more to learn including some of the upgrade ones. That will come in due time, so, I'm not too worried


----------



## DoomDash

Just much easier / faster to use control groups / hot keys.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Just much easier / faster to use control groups / hot keys.

True, but, that also considers that you've been using them for a while(becomes a habit) compared to someone who's been using the map to make his moves, although, I do also use the command ones, infact, my left hand is always around the asd area and my right is on the mouse









If anyone is up for a game, I'm going on now


----------



## DoomDash

Just no reason to shoot yourself in the foot







. Better learn now.


----------



## ThumperSD

What were the results of last night's match between Choya vs Check and Boxer vs Polt?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


dude... like the other guy said protoss has about 50 guys in top 200, not 33% like you claimed. get your facts straight.


Yet you say what I said about GSL protoss players being inferior and statement about cheese terrible


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahilal*


One of the commentators I was listening to the other day said that even top-ranked players have a win rate of only 70% or so. Anyone know if that is true? Losing a lot of games may just be part of playing










Once your MMR is set, you should be averaging approximately a 50/50 win/loss rate. If you keep winning above 50%, your MMR will just keep getting higher and you will continue to player against better players until you lose about 50% of the time.


----------



## yks

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...n_3/Main_Event

Thumper:
Polt > Boxer, Choya > Check


----------



## ThumperSD

I didnt expect Choya to beat Check. What were the last two maps they played on?


----------



## yks

Delta and Xel Naga


----------



## cory1234

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Response

TTone is playing right now. 4th in NA.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss players *yawn*


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Protoss players *yawn*


Just crushed a terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Just crushed a terran.


Anyone can do that with ez mode protoss.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone can do that with ez mode protoss.










Bashing on Protoss eh?







Easy mode is 4 rax stim rine/rauder.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Bashing on Protoss eh?







Easy mode is 4 rax stim rine/rauder.

I would think 4 gate would dominate that with some nice ff behind MM


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Bashing on Protoss eh?







Easy mode is 4 rax stim rine/rauder.

Yeah let's see how easy that is when Colossus / Templars are out.

Plus, who the hell does 4 rax?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah let's see how easy that is when Colossus / Templars are out.

Plus, who the hell does 4 rax?

Pros apparently sometimes? 4 rax destroys 4 gate btw.


----------



## DoomDash

Not really. Depends on the FF's. FF is ****ing awesome. I've had way bigger armies than Protoss players and still lost because of well placed FF's. 1A vs 1A Terran will come out on top though. I prefer 3 rax ghosts ALWAYS. Drewbie does that 4 rax + to like 20 rax **** and always gets owned and rages vs Toss players.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not really. Depends on the FF's. FF is ****ing awesome. I've had way bigger armies than Protoss players and still lost because of well placed FF's. 1A vs 1A Terran will come out on top though. I prefer 3 rax ghosts ALWAYS. Drewbie does that 4 rax + to like 20 rax **** and always gets owned and rages vs Toss players.


Sometimes. That build is still really powerful, especially if he gets ghosts. I almost never win when terran gets ghosts. It's impossible to feedback 2-3 ghosts in time before emp.


----------



## ThumperSD

What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Protoss players *yawn*


Oh hai hater. FF is really hard against stimmed MM who knows how to micro, unless they run up your ramp. They will just run away before your sentries get close enough to FF. But by that time you should be set to put up your expo.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Sometimes. That build is still really powerful, especially if he gets ghosts. I almost never win when terran gets ghosts. It's impossible to feedback 2-3 ghosts in time before emp.


I find that when terran makes ghosts, you should get charge and make mass zealots. They only have 50 shield and charge owns MM.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?

Oh hai hater. FF is really hard against stimmed MM who knows how to micro, unless they run up your ramp. They will just run away before your sentries get close enough to FF. But by that time you should be set to put up your expo.


Charge lot voids? DT's? Templars? Something like that. I wrote a guide on SCarena on that if you recall.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?

Oh hai hater. FF is really hard against stimmed MM who knows how to micro, unless they run up your ramp. They will just run away before your sentries get close enough to FF. But by that time you should be set to put up your expo.



You die. lol. It's almost OP since zealots can't even reach the thor if there is enough scv's surrounding it. I guess storms or a couple of good ff to seperate the scvs from the thor, but then you have to worry about all that dps coming from the rines too. Not to mention is it really hard to get storms out before thors. Imo the units should automatically target scvs instead of trying to reach the thor in that situation. That is the reason they made the thor smaller already.

That or twice as many immortals as thors.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?


I think something like that would work well. I mean when I'm playing Z and see scv around, the trick is what you mentioned, click on thor, get slings to run around, press H for hold and then they'll attack the SCV









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Oh hai hater. FF is really hard against stimmed MM who knows how to micro, unless they run up your ramp. They will just run away before your sentries get close enough to FF. But by that time you should be set to put up your expo.


I don't know, I mean ff is pretty powerful. In the games I've played, it's prolonged my chance of survival against both T and Z(haven't been against a P yet) especially when used in combination with stalkers due to their range. Also, you can use ff to cage them or to make a line rather quickly because all you'll have to do is press f, press on map, rinse and repeat. As long as your sentries are within range, it's pretty much instanteous


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?


Void rays are in fact pretty good and on maps with longer rush distances you can fast expand safely. Today I've had 2000+ terran trying 2 thors drop against my fast expo and failing miserably. Can upload a replay, but it's on the other comp atm.

For the push with SCVs watch Doomdash's game against Plexa where he gets owned by a Protoss player like a little baby.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What's the best way to deal with a thor/marine/scv all-in? Im guessing a bunch of zealots and a couple immortals. It's PITA to focus fire each SCV (especially the ones hiding behind the thor) with melee units. Im guessing I can target the thor with the zealots then press hold position when they run around the thor like a bunch of idiots. This should allow the zealots to automatically attack the SCVs. Can anybody confirm this working?


Koreans DT.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Is Battle.net acting weird for anyone? Its been so slow the whole day. Everything takes more then 1 min.


----------



## blackedv

what i cant figure out is how i keep getting demoted even though my score is higher than the other teams when i play 4v4? anyone have a clue, i thought it went off of score not wins


----------



## -bl4ck-

I have used that strategy a lot with the thor rush, its nice but the only time i have lost is if DT's are out and i dont have enough scans, and one guy force field the ramp and roasted most of my scvs with colossi and it was over for me. but ppl that say immortal no because how many can you get at 9 min because thats when I would attack and any decent player will have cannon upgrade and stun them and kill them instantly. But I like other builds anyways.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


For the push with SCVs watch Doomdash's game against Plexa where he gets owned by a Protoss player like a little baby.










I avenge myself game 2 with a different build.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Charge lot voids? DT's? Templars? Something like that. I wrote a guide on SCarena on that if you recall.


I dont see how you would be able to get DTs (and definitely not HT with storm) in time without cutting back your army significantly. Im not a big fan of tech switches against early pushes.

Im talking about from the moment your obs scouts the base, what should you do from there with 2-3gates and a robo. Im not sure if tech switching with very little time is the best idea in this situation. VRs get owned by marines too.

So what should I do if I already have 3gates and a robo (instead of stargate or twilight council)? If you have a replay of a protoss player successfully beating this push with 2-3gates and a robo, please post it.

TBH I nearly stopped his push but was not able to kill his thors. It was on LT at 3 and 6 o'clock positions and I already threw up my expo. I think the expo was the mistake there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Void rays are in fact pretty good and on maps with longer rush distances you can fast expand safely. Today I've had 2000+ terran trying 2 thors drop against my fast expo and failing miserably. Can upload a replay, but it's on the other comp atm.

For the push with SCVs watch Doomdash's game against Plexa where he gets owned by a Protoss player like a little baby.











Void rays is a good option if I already have a stargate but wouldnt the marines just snipe them down easily even with zealots? And what do you do about the SCVs?


----------



## -bl4ck-

scout them early enough to allow you to tech change.


----------



## ThumperSD

Let me rephrase this. I know the unit compositions needed to counter the push but still need a solution for the SCVs. What do I do about the SCVs? Have a few stalkers to snipe them? Hold position zealots?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-bl4ck-*


scout them early enough to allow you to tech change.


By the time your obs gets there, it's already nearly too late to tech switch. You can tech switch but that will mean less zealots/immortals and other things. With less zealots, marines will own the VRs


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont see how you would be able to get DTs (and definitely not HT with storm) in time without cutting back your army significantly. Im not a big fan of tech switches against early pushes.

Im talking about from the moment your obs scouts the base, what should you do from there with 2-3gates and a robo. Im not sure if tech switching with very little time is the best idea in this situation. VRs get owned by marines too.

So what should I do if I already have 3gates and a robo (instead of stargate or twilight council)? If you have a replay of a protoss player successfully beating this push with 2-3gates and a robo, please post it.

TBH I nearly stopped his push but was not able to kill his thors. It was on LT at 3 and 6 o'clock positions and I already threw up my expo. I think the expo was the mistake there.

Void rays is a good option if I already have a stargate but wouldnt the marines just snipe them down easily even with zealots? And what do you do about the SCVs?


I think your best bet is to get to Thermal Colossi as soon as possible. To stop the initial push I think you should make a sick concave around your ramp while all his units will be stuck on the ramp, some of which maybe even including the thors won't be able to hit your units if you place them properly. Concave is key. Get Thermal lance, use the range to your advantage ( Stay out of 250 mm cannon range ), and pick off the marines first. Colossus are good against repairing SCV's as well.

This is when I learned doing a Thor push was a mistake ( map specific ). Any map that has a expansion thats protected ( like Delta, Jungle, ect ). If I push against a 2 base Protoss on a normal map without a protected expo I 95% of the time will take out the expo and win the game. If I push on a map with a protected expo the push will fail miserably if they do the concave on their main ramp while still being on 2 base. Basically Thor pushes punish fast expansions by Protoss really well. So if it's not a protected expo map, and you see it, I'd say skip expanding and do your gate + colossus with range asap. Once the colossus is out you can probably break anything he has and expand.

The main point is the trick is mainly using that ramp and concave.. this is how the Toss players I play deal with it.


----------



## banded1

3 game win streak tonight. 2 vs toss (i never beat toss) and 1 vs terran
i have them in order of what i think is most exciting to least
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-lost-temple
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

i know im not that good lol


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont see how you would be able to get DTs (and definitely not HT with storm) in time without cutting back your army significantly. Im not a big fan of tech switches against early pushes.

Im talking about from the moment your obs scouts the base, what should you do from there with 2-3gates and a robo. Im not sure if tech switching with very little time is the best idea in this situation. VRs get owned by marines too.

So what should I do if I already have 3gates and a robo (instead of stargate or twilight council)? If you have a replay of a protoss player successfully beating this push with 2-3gates and a robo, please post it.

TBH I nearly stopped his push but was not able to kill his thors. It was on LT at 3 and 6 o'clock positions and I already threw up my expo. I think the expo was the mistake there.


If you opened 2-3gate robo, most will agree the build order advantage will go to Terran, so you'll already be down. So you'll either need position advantage or a beautiful concave.

However, some trends are popping up in the Korean servers where Toss would go 3gate-expand or 1gate-expand depending on map. Relying HEAVILY on FF for early game.

3gate-expand with Hulu-Pheonix scout will allow you to choose your tech path more accurately. So its a more safer-build. Cause honestly, DTs work well against Thors, more-so than Immortals.

Damn Toss having to play either super-safe or super-4gate-all in, too many extremes. We need a middle ground.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think your best bet is to get to Thermal Colossi as soon as possible. To stop the initial push I think you should make a sick concave around your ramp while all his units will be stuck on the ramp, some of which maybe even including the thors won't be able to hit your units if you place them properly. Concave is key. Get Thermal lance, use the range to your advantage ( Stay out of 250 mm cannon range ), and pick off the marines first. Colossus are good against repairing SCV's as well.

This is when I learned doing a Thor push was a mistake ( map specific ). Any map that has a expansion thats protected ( like Delta, Jungle, ect ). If I push against a 2 base Protoss on a normal map without a protected expo I 95% of the time will take out the expo and win the game. If I push on a map with a protected expo the push will fail miserably if they do the concave on their main ramp while still being on 2 base. Basically Thor pushes punish fast expansions by Protoss really well. So if it's not a protected expo map, and you see it, I'd say skip expanding and do your gate + colossus with range asap. Once the colossus is out you can probably break anything he has and expand.

The main point is the trick is mainly using that ramp and concave.. this is how the Toss players I play deal with it.


I'll try that out. Problem was that I had my units at my natural (with an expansion) on LT with close spawn positions.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I'll try that out. Problem was that I had my units at my natural (with an expansion) on LT with close spawn positions.


Which is exactly what the Thor push will own. That's your fault for doing exactly what the Thor build is intended to counter. I like that the Thor push is like that because it's a good way to force the Protoss player to actually have to adapt instead of just blind robo + expand and come out ahead in the end. It's find to expand, but if you observer shows you thors.. might want to cancel.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


If you opened 2-3gate robo, most will agree the build order advantage will go to Terran, so you'll already be down. So you'll either need position advantage or a beautiful concave.

However, some trends are popping up in the Korean servers where Toss would go 3gate-expand or 1gate-expand depending on map. Relying HEAVILY on FF for early game.

3gate-expand with Hulu-Pheonix scout will allow you to choose your tech path more accurately. So its a more safer-build. Cause honestly, DTs work well against Thors, more-so than Immortals.

Damn Toss having to play either super-safe or super-4gate-all in, too many extremes. We need a middle ground.


Yea Id love to go DTs against this build and make him waste his scans but I can only see this working on far positions


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Which is exactly what the Thor push will own. That's your fault for doing exactly what the Thor build is intended to counter. I like that the Thor push is like that because it's a good way to force the Protoss player to actually have to adapt instead of just blind robo + expand and come out ahead in the end. It's find to expand, but if you observer shows you thors.. might want to cancel.


Yea this match was a couple weeks ago so I dont know if that expo up before or after I scouted his armory. I outmacroed him in every way but his strategy was a perfect counter for my build order.


----------



## DoomDash

I've ran into DT's with my Thor builds a few times, and I'd say 50% of the time I'm fine no problem. I sometimes get prepared for DT's if I feel he is missing units.

Yeah Thor's are AMAZING vs Gateway units in small numbers ( early-mid ). They are OK against Immortals in equal numbers too with cannons.

I played with this 250 mm cannon build vs a friend when the 250 mm cannon was changed to cool down, 3 times in a row. One game I had a thor with 40 + kills, all zealots sentry and stalker.


----------



## ThumperSD

How do you prepare? Save your scans? I like to send one DT in at a time to make him waste his scans. Ive never seen turrets being made with this push.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


How do you prepare? Save your scans? I like to send one DT in at a time to make him waste his scans. Ive never seen turrets being made with this push.


http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0

90% positive in the replay I posted I build turrets.


----------



## ThumperSD

Cool, I'll check it out


----------



## DoomDash

Yep just FFed through it... made turrets







. But actually generally I skip them when I see an observer in my base ( though I didn't that time ). An observer in my base is generally a dead give away that they won't be going DT.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Which is exactly what the Thor push will own. That's your fault for doing exactly what the Thor build is intended to counter. I like that the Thor push is like that because it's a good way to force the Protoss player to actually have to adapt instead of just blind robo + expand and come out ahead in the end. It's find to expand, but if you observer shows you thors.. might want to cancel.


Yeah, Blind-Robo is starting to slowly fade-away, at least in pro-levels, for regular people though, it's all good, people will blind-robo and get away with it. all rock-paper-scissors.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Yea Id love to go DTs against this build and make him waste his scans but I can only see this working on far positions



Even close positions, I've seen it done, I just don't recall the games.


----------



## cory1234

Guys. I beat #2 in the world in 2v2 randoms today (#1 in NA).

Anyone else think LiquidJinro is the the ****?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Guys. I beat #2 in the world in 2v2 randoms today (#1 in NA).

Anyone else think LiquidJinro is the the ****?


Those games he played yesterday were mighty impressive. However I wonder how he'd do against an ex-SC1 pro Z.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I avenge myself game 2 with a different build.










True, although, TBH, that first game was rather ehh.. horrible in terms of your attack force against him. I think not clearing the towers was also a bad idea, since, he knew you were coming









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont see how you would be able to get DTs (and definitely not HT with storm) in time without cutting back your army significantly. Im not a big fan of tech switches against early pushes.

Im talking about from the moment your obs scouts the base, what should you do from there with 2-3gates and a robo. Im not sure if tech switching with very little time is the best idea in this situation. VRs get owned by marines too.

So what should I do if I already have 3gates and a robo (instead of stargate or twilight council)? If you have a replay of a protoss player successfully beating this push with 2-3gates and a robo, please post it.

TBH I nearly stopped his push but was not able to kill his thors. It was on LT at 3 and 6 o'clock positions and I already threw up my expo. I think the expo was the mistake there.

Void rays is a good option if I already have a stargate but wouldnt the marines just snipe them down easily even with zealots? And what do you do about the SCVs?


Curious, why go 3 gate robo? I mean against T, I understand the reason for that(immortals >> marauders), but, against protoss, I would think getting more gates than robo for observer and colossi would be more beneficial







I think just surrounding the thor with zealots then pressing hold is enough for them to take down the zealots. Alternatively, I would think colossi work pretty well in this case as well









Anyone up for a game? Really itching for some 1vs1 action


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I dont see how you would be able to get DTs (and definitely not HT with storm) in time without cutting back your army significantly. Im not a big fan of tech switches against early pushes.

Im talking about from the moment your obs scouts the base, what should you do from there with 2-3gates and a robo. Im not sure if tech switching with very little time is the best idea in this situation. VRs get owned by marines too.

So what should I do* if I already have 3gates and a robo *(instead of stargate or twilight council)? If you have a replay of a protoss player successfully beating this push with 2-3gates and a robo, please post it.

TBH I nearly stopped his push but was not able to kill his thors. It was on LT at 3 and 6 o'clock positions and I already threw up my expo. I think the expo was the mistake there.

Void rays is a good option if I already have a stargate but wouldnt the marines just snipe them down easily even with zealots? And what do you do about the SCVs?


I'd say you should have 2 nexi and 4 gates or 3 gates robo intead, thinking what to do next. With a good number of ground units void rays will do very well, because ground units will get auto-targeted by marines, and even if he'll focus fire VR's he'll still die to zealot/stalker.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Guys. I beat #2 in the world in 2v2 randoms today (#1 in NA).

Anyone else think LiquidJinro is the the ****?


I'm really bad at team games. I lose to gold players all the time. I remember the game when me and some random diamond guy got owned by 2 gold players who spend first half of the game making turrets and planetary fortresses and then massed BCs and marines. The other time I'll get a silver player as a partner and he won't expand till like half hour into the game. On the top of that 50% of 2v2s seem to rely on cheese. The most frustrating games ever.

How do you deal with that? I'd like to know what openings and strategies are actually viable in 2v2's espacially for protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


How do you deal with that? I'd like to know what openings and strategies are actually viable in 2v2's espacially for protoss.


I would think the usual opening, some gates+cc, etc.... would work well since it's worked in my games. For zerg, expanding early could be good or bad. Lost a 2vs2 today because I expanded early and wasn't able to recover. It was rather interesting seeing doom try to attack two players with a blob of stalkers. Guess having 3 bases isn't enough, lol. As for T, walling up and then going any of the usual openings should work, so, really as long as you and your partner coordinate your attacks and talk about your plan, it's somewhat easy to win


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep just FFed through it... made turrets







. But actually generally I skip them when I see an observer in my base ( though I didn't that time ). An observer in my base is generally a dead give away that they won't be going DT.


Wait which replay are you talking about? I watched the one on Xel Naga but you didnt have turrets in that one. You did have an ebay though. Im also surprised you only need to bring 4 SCVs. They guy who used it against me brought 7-8 SCVs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Even close positions, I've seen it done, I just don't recall the games.


I might be wrong BUT Im 90% sure that you will not be able to get your DT shrine up by the time the thors get to your base if the terran times it correctly on a short distance. They push out immediately after the second thor pops out. When your obs gets to their base, their first thor is almost done. You would have to throw up your twilight council then the DT shrine. I just dont see how you would have enough time. That is if you already went the gate/robo path.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Anyone else think LiquidJinro is the the ****?


I love his macro/late game play with terran considering 90% of terrans do all-ins in the GSL. I liked the way he played against Socke at MLG as well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Curious, why go 3 gate robo? I mean against T, I understand the reason for that(immortals >> marauders), but, against protoss, I would think getting more gates than robo for observer and colossi would be more beneficial







I think just surrounding the thor with zealots then pressing hold is enough for them to take down the zealots. Alternatively, I would think colossi work pretty well in this case as well










Because of the threat of cloaked banshees. If you have no robo bay or cannons up by the time his banshees get to your base, there is a 90% chance you will lose. My probe going up to his ramp can only see his buildings at the choke.

Only time I dont make a robo bay vs terran is when I want to be the aggressor and make a stargate instead for a VR/carrier timing push.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'd say you should have 2 nexi and 4 gates or 3 gates robo intead, thinking what to do next. With a good number of ground units void rays will do very well, because ground units will get auto-targeted by marines, and even if he'll focus fire VR's he'll still die to zealot/stalker.

I'm really bad at team games. I lose to gold players all the time. I remember the game when me and some random diamond guy got owned by 2 gold players who spend first half of the game making turrets and planetary fortresses and then massed BCs and marines. The other time I'll get a silver player as a partner and he won't expand till like half hour into the game. On the top of that 50% of 2v2s seem to rely on cheese. The most frustrating games ever.

How do you deal with that? I'd like to know what openings and strategies are actually viable in 2v2's espacially for protoss.


Yes if I already threw up a stargate(instead of robo) I would definitely go the VR/zealot route against the thor push. I just dont like tech switching from gate/robo to stargate when he is almost about to push. Id only be able to get 1-2 VRs by the time his push comes and much less gateway units than I would have if I didnt tech switch.

And about the team games, I noticed that I get a little worse at team games after playing 1v1 exclusively for a while. Team games usually require different strategies. Early timing pushes work the best in team games so 4 gate usually works the best if your ally agrees to attack at the same time. Korean 4 gate also works great in 2v2 if you have a zerg ally. Make a proxy pylon on the side of your enemy's base (on the low ground) and have an overlord give you vision so you can warp in zealots into their base. The zerg would then go speedlings. This worked very well for me and Sora.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Because of the threat of cloaked banshees. If you have no robo bay or cannons up by the time his banshees get to your base, there is a 90% chance you will lose. My probe going up to his ramp can only see his buildings at the choke.

Only time I dont make a robo bay vs terran is when I want to be the aggressor and make a stargate instead for a VR/carrier timing push.


Looking back at the original question, I realized that I mistyped what I meant. I do agree that getting a robobay for an observor is a good idea, usually, I go for forge and cb +1 attack while building a couple of pc around my mineral line and near my choke, basically overlap them so that two can fire at once. Of course, you really only need one or two at mineral









What I meant by my question was, why go 3 gate robo against protoss? But, then I answered myself by saying that going colossi is probably one of the main reasons(other than an observer)


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Looking back at the original question, I realized that I mistyped what I meant. I do agree that getting a robobay for an observor is a good idea, usually, I go for forge and cb +1 attack while building a couple of pc around my mineral line and near my choke, basically overlap them so that two can fire at once. Of course, you really only need one or two at mineral









What I meant by my question was, why go 3 gate robo against protoss? But, then I answered myself by saying that going colossi is probably one of the main reasons(other than an observer)










Against protoss, 2-3gate/robo is a very solid build unless he goes air. In every PvP that I have played in the last month, the player with the most colossi and best colossi positioning won every time. I got tired of making colossi so Ive been going 2gate/stargate in PvP instead lately with good results. It wont be a good idea if your opponent does a 4 gate push though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Against protoss, 2-3gate/robo is a very solid build unless he goes air. In every PvP that I have played in the last month, the player with the most colossi and best colossi positioning won every time. I got tired of making colossi so Ive been going 2gate/stargate in PvP instead lately with good results. It wont be a good idea if your opponent does a 4 gate push though.


I haven't had the pleasure of a PvsP, so, can't comment on the colossi thing, but, why not go 4 gate stargate youself. I mean 300 minerals into 2 gates could be done with minimal risk if you are constantly scouting with the phenoix. However, I do have to wonder how you are winning PvsP games with 2 gate stargate. Are you getting VRs and focus firing colossi?


----------



## DoomDash

*Rant*

God I hate this game sometimes. If I have to lose to another scrubby generic stupid ass 3 gate robo push while having nice MMTank ( defensively ) I'm going to throw something.

It's so stupid how Blizzard just said "Protoss players, we give you the power of not using your brain vs tanks! Here, take this, the immortal, the short bus tank counter. Oh? That's not enough you say? Let's make your high HP strong speed upgradeable melee unit take only 35 damage from the siege tank! What's that? You want more? How about we give you a unit that also siege unit, that can walk over high/low ground, requires no slow push, no sieging and un-sieging, and is probably the equivalent of 3 tanks except for the cost of 2! Still not enough!?!? Let's give a unit that can pick the siege tanks up for 50 energy! Yeah!

*End Rant*


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*Rant*

God I hate this game sometimes. If I have to lose to another scrubby generic stupid ass 3 gate robo push while having nice MMTank ( defensively ) I'm going to throw something.

It's so stupid how Blizzard just said "Protoss players, we give you the power of not using your brain vs tanks! Here, take this, the immortal, the short bus tank counter. Oh? That's not enough you say? Let's make your high HP strong speed upgradeable melee unit take only 35 damage from the siege tank! What's that? You want more? How about we give you a unit that also siege unit, that can walk over high/low ground, requires no slow push, no sieging and un-sieging, and is probably the equivalent of 3 tanks except for the cost of 2! Still not enough!?!? Let's give a unit that can pick the siege tanks up for 50 energy! Yeah!

*End Rant*


lol, you can do that for any race. Example:

It's so stupid how Blizzard just said "Terran players, we give you the power of not using your brain vs any gateways units! Here, take the marine+marauder. Oh? That's not enough you say? Let's give them concussive shells+stim and medivacs to allow them to take down much larger armies very efficiently! What's that? You want more? How about we give you a unit that has a powerful ground attack, does decent air splash attacks with a huge range, has researchable cannons that can take down other massive ground units quite easily and can be repaired by many SCVs at once? Did I mention that the price ain't bad either! Still not enough!?!? Let's give an air unit that has a crazy range and can be built really fast with reactors! Did I mention that you can use it to land in an enemies base to reek some havoc on their mineral line and then retreat rather quickly? Yeah! 









I can also do one for Z if you'll like







Immortals, to me are like thors. They both do well against tanks, obviously the immortals is better, since, that's its main purpose, but, I would think using the cannons on a tank would result in a much quicker defeat meaning less hp lost for the thor. You gotta remember that immortals are very situational as well. Besides, where was your ghosts? One emp and with a couple of marines, you'll take the shields below 0 easily and the immortals is no more in 2 tank shots







Of course, this doesn't consider zealots or other units into the mix









Edit: I should mention that reading back your post, it sounds like you got outplayed as well. My guess is that he went for zealot+immortal+phenoix. Lifted tanks with phenoixes, took out MM with chargelots+immortals and then when the tanks landed, it was quite easily to take them down


----------



## DoomDash

You miss the point. You can kind of do it for some things, but there is nothing in the game that can compare to the damage lost to immortals hardend shields. More importantly, they are practically useless in the match up ( because half the Protoss units can blind counter them ) besides for some gimmicks and cannon breaking. The tank used to be the back bone to the Terran army, now it seems like they want you to do bull**** bio builds at all times.

Also LOL @ your ghost and tank recommendation HAHAHH. I thought I was dreaming for a second.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You miss the point. You can kind of do it for some things, but there is nothing in the game that can compare to the damage lost to immortals hardend shields. More importantly, they are practically useless in the match up ( because half the Protoss units can blind counter them ) besides for some gimmicks and cannon breaking. The tank used to be the back bone to the Terran army, now it seems like they want you to do bull**** bio builds at all times.

Also LOL @ your ghost and tank recommendation HAHAHH. I thought I was dreaming for a second.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but, your point was that tanks are now almost useless and that immortals don't really help their case. You have to remember though that this is SC2 not BW and the protoss and zerg have come up with counters for the tank(aka immortals and ultra(?)). I loved tanks, their 70 damage in BW was crazy good and made them a force to be dealing with especially when backed up with a strong force, MM but, I think blizzard is trying to encourage more unit usage, although, it doesn't exactly help tanks in this case. 
From the way things are, it looks like the thor is the go to unit now while it used to be the trusty tank, not much you can do other than if an opponent goes immortals, take them down with thor using cannons or don't build tanks and go for air units(banshees).

I would think if you're on 2 bases, then making a ghost or two for EMPing immortals along with his other units while putting your minerals mostly on MM and remaining minerals+gas on tanks would work well


----------



## DoomDash

If you don't play Terran all the time you'll never understand. They pretty much said don't use the tank with a huge slap in the face. Even Roach vs Immortals I can still over power Protoss, because I'm only losing 6 damage per shot. It's ******ed that I lose 40 fricken damage every shot with a tank... then you add in all the other great tank counters they already have on top that and its infuriating. Just my opinion but its just stupid that its so easy to counter as Protoss. It's too easy.. and that's my complaint about SCII compared to 1 as always.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I would think if you're on 2 bases, then making a ghost or two for EMPing immortals along with his other units while putting your minerals mostly on MM and remaining minerals+gas on tanks would work well










You are wrong and I was on 2 bases. Won't work, and he will crush you long before you can get ghosts.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Edit: I should mention that reading back your post, it sounds like you got outplayed as well. My guess is that he went for zealot+immortal+phenoix. Lifted tanks with phenoixes, took out MM with chargelots+immortals and then when the tanks landed, it was quite easily to take them down










Also no. It was a general complaint about Protoss being stupid good against tanks for no reason. He didn't have anything but gateway units and some immortals. I expand quicker, and he attacked in to a sieged tank line well covered by MMT.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I haven't had the pleasure of a PvsP, so, can't comment on the colossi thing, but, why not go 4 gate stargate youself. I mean 300 minerals into 2 gates could be done with minimal risk if you are constantly scouting with the phenoix. However, I do have to wonder how you are winning PvsP games with 2 gate stargate. Are you getting VRs and focus firing colossi?










If it is a timing push, I hit the stalkers first. They are the only units besides sentries that can attack your VRs. He wont have many stalkers because he will spend most of his gas teching. After you take out the stalkers you can kill everything in the base with no resistance.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You miss the point. You can kind of do it for some things, but there is nothing in the game that can compare to the damage lost to immortals hardend shields. More importantly, they are practically useless in the match up ( because half the Protoss units can blind counter them ) besides for some gimmicks and cannon breaking. The tank used to be the back bone to the Terran army, now it seems like they want you to do bull**** bio builds at all times.

Also LOL @ your ghost and tank recommendation HAHAHH. I thought I was dreaming for a second.


Why dont you just do a Thor/scv/marine push every TvP? lol... Tanks are good in TvP but you need in big numbers like at 10 or more.


----------



## DoomDash

Well yeah tanks are great @ critical mass but it's just lame you cant make a build around them unless its working them in late game. And I already told you the problems with Thor/Rine/SCV.

Funny I'm listening to state of the game and Nony just mentioned how bad tanks are in TvP when talking about Naama.


----------



## EgoProxy

Wow... fruitdealer.... come on man. can you be anymore amazing?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Rine/Thor/SCV all-ins are tough and take practice to beat. I used to get raped by them all the time, but as protoss the number 1 counter is scouting. If you can see it coming ahead of time, it's easy to kite rines and SCVs all the way back to your base, at which point the fight should be a little more fair.

Bring probes to help out, FF around the Thor to push SCVs off (the FFs will be broken immediately) and attack the thor with probes. This will make it difficult for the SCVs to repair. FF behind your ramp if you can cut off some rines as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Rant*

God I hate this game sometimes. If I have to lose to another scrubby generic stupid ass 3 gate robo push while having nice MMTank ( defensively ) I'm going to throw something.

It's so stupid how Blizzard just said "Protoss players, we give you the power of not using your brain vs tanks! Here, take this, the immortal, the short bus tank counter. Oh? That's not enough you say? Let's make your high HP strong speed upgradeable melee unit take only 35 damage from the siege tank! What's that? You want more? How about we give you a unit that also siege unit, that can walk over high/low ground, requires no slow push, no sieging and un-sieging, and is probably the equivalent of 3 tanks except for the cost of 2! Still not enough!?!? Let's give a unit that can pick the siege tanks up for 50 energy! Yeah!

*End Rant*

Immortal is overrated. It gets raped by bioball, chargelot/phoenix/colossi is a much better counter to bunkertank bioball.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You miss the point. You can kind of do it for some things, but there is nothing in the game that can compare to the damage lost to immortals hardend shields.

Point defense drone is pretty sickening in some spots.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
Wow... fruitdealer.... come on man. can you be anymore amazing?

Spoiler?


----------



## ChadWarden

hey overclock brothers, im new to this forum! good to see there are loyal sc2 players here. as soon as my pc is here and ready to go (the one in my sig, ordered it, so said why the hell not and listed the stuff) i will finally be playing online from home. (been playing at internet cafes only) Also picked up a US version of sc2, so I can play with my friends stateside. (currently residing in South Korea) hope to play with many of you guys in the future! please go ahead and add me!!!

ChadWarden 581


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
hey overclock brothers, im new to this forum! good to see there are loyal sc2 players here. as soon as my pc is here and ready to go (the one in my sig, ordered it, so said why the hell not and listed the stuff) i will finally be playing online from home. (been playing at internet cafes only) Also picked up a US version of sc2, so I can play with my friends stateside. (currently residing in South Korea) hope to play with many of you guys in the future! please go ahead and add me!!!

ChadWarden 581

Will do.HOpefully you will have some Korean skill insight for me if we get to practice together


----------



## ChadWarden

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
Will do.HOpefully you will have some Korean skill insight for me if we get to practice together









sounds good!
korean ladder is so brutal... ugh. from my experience of playing around 400 games on korean region and about 160 on NA region, I say the silver league in korean region is similar to diamond league in the NA region. no joke. there are silver players that are quite good in korea and i see diamond players in NA region that makes you wonder how they even have a 1-1 win lose ratio. thats how bad the skill difference is. my buddy who played over 600 on korean server and couldnt get to diamond, he's been stuck on plat since the beta days, made it to US diamond in less than a week and his record was 41-17 last time i checked. lol.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
sounds good!
korean ladder is so brutal... ugh. from my experience of playing around 400 games on korean region and about 160 on NA region, I say the silver league in korean region is similar to diamond league in the NA region. no joke. there are silver players that are quite good in korea and i see diamond players in NA region that makes you wonder how they even have a 1-1 win lose ratio. thats how bad the skill difference is. my buddy who played over 600 on korean server and couldnt get to diamond, he's been stuck on plat since the beta days, made it to US diamond in less than a week and his record was 41-17 last time i checked. lol.

GODAMN!!
and here I'm thinking getting into diamond here is hard (been stuck in plat for the past 4 months), i guess i would barely be able to get into silver. Good to know though, cause at least when I play against you, I will learn some different strategies, so far ive been using mostly european and american styles (very passive, no HEAVY early pressure in 1v1, no proxies, no all Ins)


----------



## ChadWarden

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
GODAMN!!
and here I'm thinking getting into diamond here is hard (been stuck in plat for the past 4 months), i guess i would barely be able to get into silver. Good to know though, cause at least when I play against you, I will learn some different strategies, so far ive been using mostly european and american styles (very passive, no HEAVY early pressure in 1v1, no proxies, no all Ins)

yeah.. heres a good example..

i started out knowing NOTHING about sc2 (started quite late too, late september) and i started out with a record of 5-21, bronze of course. (LOL) on the korean servers 1vs1. i started to get slowly better and better, and on 1v1, and upon, turning gold, my record was 79-61. (not TOO bad of a ratio considering i started out with so many losses) found out all my childhood friends in US were playing sc2, wanted to play with them, so went ahead and bought a copy just to play the US version.

won all my placement matches, and lost 3 right away after that. (havent played in over 10 days after placement, so super super rusty... and internet cafe was cold so my hands were frozen lol) after i got warmed up, got to diamond and is currently at 22-10 on diamond. im holding off playing 1v1 ladder until i get a pc at home, which should be real soon, so ive been practicing 1v1 on custom with a bunch of 18~2400 diamonders from the other forum i post in. (currently 10-3 playing with those guys =P) so not too bad.

but yeah, somehow my post got super long, but yeah... its just an example of how a guy that is slightly above average here, that took about a month to get to gold here, got to diamond quite easily in NA (4 days game playing days to be exact) and can consistently take on 2000+ diamonders here. the major difference that a lot of people agree on, is players outside of korea tend to have a much more broad, unique style of play, more strategies and what not... players in korea don't have that many strats, but prefer to perfect those little strats they use. i admit the times i lost on NA region were all weird strats I wasn't ready for, when the game went over the 12 minute mark I dont think ive lost a single one yet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
hey overclock brothers, im new to this forum! good to see there are loyal sc2 players here. as soon as my pc is here and ready to go (the one in my sig, ordered it, so said why the hell not and listed the stuff) i will finally be playing online from home. (been playing at internet cafes only) Also picked up a US version of sc2, so I can play with my friends stateside. (currently residing in South Korea) hope to play with many of you guys in the future! please go ahead and add me!!!

ChadWarden 581

and a hello to you too







Will add you, always looking for a practice partner in SC2









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
sounds good!
korean ladder is so brutal... ugh. from my experience of playing around 400 games on korean region and about 160 on NA region, I say the silver league in korean region is similar to diamond league in the NA region. no joke. there are silver players that are quite good in korea and i see diamond players in NA region that makes you wonder how they even have a 1-1 win lose ratio. thats how bad the skill difference is. my buddy who played over 600 on korean server and couldnt get to diamond, he's been stuck on plat since the beta days, made it to US diamond in less than a week and his record was 41-17 last time i checked. lol.

That's rather crazy. I'm only in Silver but I practice more than ladder these days. Either way, it would be great if I could have a game or two in the korean region to see the difference, although, that won't be happening anytime soon







Well, for US diamond, it depends on the level. A member on battle.net forums mentioned this about the diamond league which I found interesting:
x<1000 Bronze Diamond
1000<x<1500 Silver Diamond
1500<x<2000 Gold Diamond
2000<x<2500 Platinum Diamond
2500+ Diamond Diamond

I think he has a point as well, I would think lower level diamonds are much weaker than higher ones









EDIT: ^^Read your latest post, do want to mention that while perfecting a certain strategy is good and all, you should also be able to use many different strats if you want to win. I don't mean using cheese, but, if you watched GSL2, FD was a perfect example of this. He has amazing macro and micro but his constant 15 exp 14 pool was what caused his downfall, even in the second game, when his exp was protected, foxer just kept on constantly pushing with MMM and he wasn't able to hold the line, was truly was an awesome game from both









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
GODAMN!!
and here I'm thinking getting into diamond here is hard (been stuck in plat for the past 4 months), i guess i would barely be able to get into silver. Good to know though, cause at least when I play against you, I will learn some different strategies, so far ive been using mostly european and american styles (very passive, no HEAVY early pressure in 1v1, no proxies, no all Ins)

Personally, I think those styles are what's holding you back. I understand where you're coming from though, since, I'm very passive and always wait for the first attack before countering myself. That's likely since I'm used to playing Z and attacking first could be a GG


----------



## rhed5

Good stuff Chad.
How is the lag between the korean & US servers?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well yeah tanks are great @ critical mass but it's just lame you cant make a build around them unless its working them in late game. And I already told you the problems with Thor/Rine/SCV.

Funny I'm listening to state of the game and Nony just mentioned how bad tanks are in TvP when talking about Naama.

Problem I see with buffing tanks is that they are still REALLY good against Z and T. Only way I can see it being balanced is to nerf protoss itself so that only they are more vulnerable to siege tanks but this will lead to a lot of QQ by protoss players. If there is any race that should be strong against tanks though it should be protoss because they will have a small but beefier army. They have to be more efficient. I wouldnt mind seeing a slight tank buff if they nerf marauder with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam* 
Rine/Thor/SCV all-ins are tough and take practice to beat. I used to get raped by them all the time, but as protoss the number 1 counter is scouting. If you can see it coming ahead of time, it's easy to kite rines and SCVs all the way back to your base, at which point the fight should be a little more fair.

Bring probes to help out, FF around the Thor to push SCVs off (the FFs will be broken immediately) and attack the thor with probes. This will make it difficult for the SCVs to repair. FF behind your ramp if you can cut off some rines as well.

FF temporarily stops SCVs from repairing? I never knew that. I guess you will have to use your probes to target the thor first before you FF.

And how do you kite marines? They have the same range as stalkers. A good terran player will have all of their marines and SCVs following the thors so they dont get out of position.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
hey overclock brothers, im new to this forum! good to see there are loyal sc2 players here. as soon as my pc is here and ready to go (the one in my sig, ordered it, so said why the hell not and listed the stuff) i will finally be playing online from home. (been playing at internet cafes only) Also picked up a US version of sc2, so I can play with my friends stateside. (currently residing in South Korea) hope to play with many of you guys in the future! please go ahead and add me!!!

ChadWarden 581

Welcome to the forum


----------



## DoomDash

Koreans have more dedication to the game its no surprise they are better on average. Though I don't think the gap is as big as people think. I have a friend with 2 accounes NA and Korea on supraforums and he doesn't feel that much of a difference besides koreans being far far more aggressive / ahead of the trends.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Problem I see with buffing tanks is that they are still REALLY good against Z and T. Only way I can see it being balanced is to nerf protoss itself so that only they are more vulnerable to siege tanks but this will lead to a lot of QQ by protoss players. If there is any race that should be strong against tanks though it should be protoss because they will have a small but beefier army. They have to be more efficient. I wouldnt mind seeing a slight tank buff if they nerf marauder with it.


Agree with this, tanks are good the way they are. I doubt Blizzard will make such a move unless they nerf the maraduer so that a tank buff would help T late game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


FF temporarily stops SCVs from repairing? I never knew that. I guess you will have to use your probes to target the thor first before you FF.

And how do you kite marines? They have the same range as stalkers. A good terran player will have all of their marines and SCVs following the thors so they dont get out of position.


I think what he meant was that you should ff around the thor where the SCVs are to move them away and then by the time they go back to repairing, you would've done some real damage to the thor, enough to be able to take it down even if they start repairing again









Marines are range 5, stalkers 6, I think you are confusing marauder's range with a marine's range


----------



## BigFan

Chad, kinda curious as to the race that you play? Forgot to mention that in my previous post


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm guessing he plays zerg.

@ChadWarden: How hard is it for a foreigner to get KR sc2 account? I've heard you need their national ID number or something similar.


----------



## DoomDash

It's funny constantly playing 2200+ players on my huggle account which was just in the 1300s! I think I've caught the MMR up to my DoomDash account cause now it feels like the same level of opponents.

They probably don't play many 1300 Diamonds







( but secretly 2000 Diamond ).


----------



## DoomDash

I'm trying to work on my Terran macro to make it better.. its kind of confusing to be honest. I feel like at times going 3 base is counter productive because of how weak Terran is in the process to certain types of builds. Specifically PvT timing attacks, and TvZ muta harass ( Can't seem to control 2 bases well much less 3 ). I haven't been doing bad its just super hard and super risky compared to making a second base. I'd love to be a Terran macro god, but it just doesn't click for me yet.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm trying to work on my Terran macro to make it better.. its kind of confusing to be honest. I feel like at times going 3 base is counter productive because of how weak Terran is in the process to certain types of builds. Specifically PvT timing attacks, and TvZ muta harass ( Can't seem to control 2 bases well much less 3 ). I haven't been doing bad its just super hard and super risky compared to making a second base. I'd love to be a Terran macro god, but it just doesn't click for me yet.

I've had the same problem; not because it's risky, but because it's so erratic.
I recently switched to random on a smurf account (11-3 right now, its pitting me against 2200 diamonds on my off-races. Ahhh!) The problem with terran macro is that it's just plain difficult. Mules make your mineral intake sporadic, so it's hard to judge how many buildings you can support. It's very easy to undershoot or overshoot it, resulting in either a trustfund or being too broke to make upgrades/teching


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I just don't get / understand it yet. But that's why I will keep trying.


----------



## hfcobra

COBRA 783

i am a bronze player, i am very bad right now. I hope to be a 2500 diamond someday but i dont have much time to play









one can dream though









anyways add me if you want to help me out or just play some nexus wars, anything really! I always look forward to meeting people on a more personal level like enjoying a game together!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well as day9 says, always use the pro level skill and strat as barometer to make you improve and play better.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's funny constantly playing 2200+ players on my huggle account which was just in the 1300s! I think I've caught the MMR up to my DoomDash account cause now it feels like the same level of opponents.

They probably don't play many 1300 Diamonds







( but secretly 2000 Diamond ).

Yea Im getting matched against 1800-2000 diamonds on both my 400 and 1500 accounts. Ive yet played anybody above 2000 on ladder though but hope to get there soon as ive been beating most of these guys.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I think what he meant was that you should ff around the thor where the SCVs are to move them away and then by the time they go back to repairing, you would've done some real damage to the thor, enough to be able to take it down even if they start repairing again









Marines are range 5, stalkers 6, I think you are confusing marauder's range with a marine's range









I tried that, it doesnt work. The SCVs are literally next to the thor at all times when set on auto-repair.


----------



## DoomDash

Kinda surprised how bad some of these 2200 Diamonds are.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Well as day9 says, always use the pro level skill and strat as barometer to make you improve and play better.

i watch HDstarcraft, but i try to learn as much as i can from his vids as well!


----------



## EgoProxy

Everytime GSL comes on I have to talk to someone and if no ones awake i talk to you guys.

DID ANYONE JUST SEE THAT!!! wow foxer just dominated leenock. I love how at this level of SC any small mistake becomes your downfall. awesome marines spread!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah good set. Some mistakes for sure.


----------



## EgoProxy

Thumbs up to all the funny names people have who are asking the GOMTV interview questions.


----------



## EgoProxy

With heavy weights from sc1 joining in the mix the future of sc2 looks very entertaining. It'd be a waste to keep all that polished talent to one game. I have A-iccup cousins that refuse to make the switch. They'll have to sooner or later, right?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm trying to work on my Terran macro to make it better.. its kind of confusing to be honest. I feel like at times going 3 base is counter productive because of how weak Terran is in the process to certain types of builds. Specifically PvT timing attacks, and TvZ muta harass ( Can't seem to control 2 bases well much less 3 ). I haven't been doing bad its just super hard and super risky compared to making a second base. I'd love to be a Terran macro god, but it just doesn't click for me yet.

Curious, do you lay down 4 turrets+make your cc a PF at your exp? That should help prolong its life especially if you get all your SCV to repair it as well as ward off mutas. Placing a couple of marines+medivacs should help as well. I don't have much experience as T against Z, but, in my last game(TvsZ), I was off doing some banshee harass, but, before doing that, I had excess minerals so I got my SCV to lay down some turrets near my mineral line and around my base, basically made them all overlap each other, so, that at any one point, two of them will be firing at his air units.

Since, he wasn't able to stop my banshees, he made mutas and attacked my base from 2 different sides. Well, my marines+1 medivacs+2 turrets melted his mutas away. Bad idea on his part to attack a supply depot inside of focusing on marines with all his mutas. Either way, I think laying down those turrets and placing a marine or two(thor for better control) would help a lot in defending your exp against mutas









Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
Everytime GSL comes on I have to talk to someone and if no ones awake i talk to you guys.

DID ANYONE JUST SEE THAT!!! wow foxer just dominated leenock. I love how at this level of SC any small mistake becomes your downfall. awesome marines spread!

lol, well, that's why doom is always on at that time


----------



## DoomDash

After that interview I am a MC fan.

Bigfan yeah I make 3-4 turrets at each expo but it doesn't really help. Problem is you have to cover your entire base, and turrets are easy to pick off in 1's or 2's with a fair amount of muta. at most you can get 1 turret to cover another. Yeah repair works sometime but it really depends on how fast he controls his mutas. It's just so easy to keep T / P at their base for a long time mid-game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
After that interview I am a MC fan.

Bigfan yeah I make 3-4 turrets at each expo but it doesn't really help. Problem is you have to cover your entire base, and turrets are easy to pick off in 1's or 2's with a fair amount of muta. at most you can get 1 turret to cover another. Yeah repair works sometime but it really depends on how fast he controls his mutas. It's just so easy to keep T / P at their base for a long time mid-game.

hmm, I guess the only thing you will have to do is harass him while expanding and then making sure to have marines+medivacs for any mutas that show up at your expos. I mean if he has several bases, he's going to have a low army than you because of the worker count. I think that's the problem of expanding, if you keep it up, soon enough half of your army will be your workers. If you were P, I would think you could kite his mutas with a couple of phenoixes, but, with vikings, that's out of the question. Not really sure what else you can do, besides placing units there


----------



## DoomDash

Well obviously I try and cover as best I can with rines ... but its super duper difficult to do it with 3 base which is my point. 2 is not a big deal. Thors also help a ton because of the range but they are so immobile. Just much easier for the Zerg in those spots because of muta mobility. He basically applies pressure while taking the map / droning / making units / spreading creep. I can't leave my base because of muta pressure, and even if I do leave my base ignoring the muta's he can just pull them back and get to his base by the same time I make it there.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well obviously I try and cover as best I can with rines ... but its super duper difficult to do it with 3 base which is my point. 2 is not a big deal. Thors also help a ton because of the range but they are so immobile. Just much easier for the Zerg in those spots because of muta mobility. He basically applies pressure while taking the map / droning / making units / spreading creep. I can't leave my base because of muta pressure, and even if I do leave my base ignoring the muta's he can just pull them back and get to his base by the same time I make it there.

True, watching GSL now, should be an interesting game









Edit: Talk about bad luck, net acting up now








Edit2: Can't say I didn't expect that once


Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



I saw that stargate going up really early


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
FF temporarily stops SCVs from repairing? I never knew that. I guess you will have to use your probes to target the thor first before you FF.

And how do you kite marines? They have the same range as stalkers. A good terran player will have all of their marines and SCVs following the thors so they dont get out of position.

You need to place the FFs very carefully. Works well on a moving thor.

Quite sure stalkers outrange marines, either way they move faster than marines and can be shield kited easily. You should always send out your first stalkers to try and pick off marines in this manner.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Well obviously I try and cover as best I can with rines ... but its super duper difficult to do it with 3 base which is my point. 2 is not a big deal. Thors also help a ton because of the range but they are so immobile. Just much easier for the Zerg in those spots because of muta mobility. He basically applies pressure while taking the map / droning / making units / spreading creep. I can't leave my base because of muta pressure, and even if I do leave my base ignoring the muta's he can just pull them back and get to his base by the same time I make it there.

As a zerg player I've never gotten the impression that T had trouble countering muta harass. Just don't go 3 base until you've pooped out enough marines to cover everything. It's not like marines are expensive. Put a barracks with reactor in every expo and poop away.


----------



## ChadWarden

Yes, I play zerg. I was a terran only in sc1, and I was about to play as terran also in sc2, but when i first started playing (patch 1.11) EVERYONE WAS TERRAN/TOSS/ literally, SO BAD. even season 1 gsl, we all saw how much zerg there was. hardly any. so i chose to play zerg. now... after the buff... i see a lot more zerg.. so weak.. pisses me off lol.

and doomdash, the skill gap IS pretty horrid. koreans have such great macro in general it is ridiculous. the further the game goes along, the less of a chance you have of winning, i see people that are diamond 1800+ in NA servers with their minerals exceeding 1000 in the 10 minute mark. your resources should never ever go past 800 unless you are getting ready to pump out mass amounts of expensive high tier units at once, waiting for the tech building to complete. NA players have a lot more wide variety of strats tho, and some can come out of nowhere tho. im going to try to play on both servers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChadWarden*


Yes, I play zerg. I was a terran only in sc1, and I was about to play as terran also in sc2, but when i first started playing (patch 1.11) EVERYONE WAS TERRAN/TOSS/ literally, SO BAD. even season 1 gsl, we all saw how much zerg there was. hardly any. so i chose to play zerg. now... after the buff... i see a lot more zerg.. so weak.. pisses me off lol.

*Nice, I used to exclusively play Z as well, but, recently started playing as random because I wanted to play around with wrapgates, MM and experiment around. Like you, I chose zerg initially because there weren't enough people playing them and I like the idea of playing the UP race. I also feel in love with the idea of swarming your opponent







I might not be in diamond, but, will in due time, since, I need to start laddering a lot more







Also, nice that I'm not the only one pissed off as a result, lol.*

and doomdash, the skill gap IS pretty horrid. koreans have such great macro in general it is ridiculous. the further the game goes along, the less of a chance you have of winning, i see people that are diamond 1800+ in NA servers with their minerals exceeding 1000 in the 10 minute mark. your resources should never ever go past 800 unless you are getting ready to pump out mass amounts of expensive high tier units at once, waiting for the tech building to complete. NA players have a lot more wide variety of strats tho, and some can come out of nowhere tho. im going to try to play on both servers.


hmm, that still sounds really crazy in terms of gaps. I mean I've played most on here and I would say their macro is fantastic, so, I have a hard time believing that some who are diamond on here would be silver there







As to the length of the game, well, I've seen pro games go 40+min. I mean provided you have great macro and are constantly making units, harassing your opponent, scouting, etc.... then really you should be abe to extend the game and likely win it, since, you are chipping away at your opponent and extending your lead as time passes. Of course, you also have to factor in the different skill levels









Here I thought I was horrible for having >1000 minerals later in the game, when I'm only in silver, lol. In my case, I usually start making slings, doing more upgrades, expanding, laying more hatcheries, etc.... Nothing compares to throwing 45+ slings onto your opponent followed by more and more slings then your main force once they are weakened


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChadWarden* 
Yes, I play zerg. I was a terran only in sc1, and I was about to play as terran also in sc2, but when i first started playing (patch 1.11) EVERYONE WAS TERRAN/TOSS/ literally, SO BAD. even season 1 gsl, we all saw how much zerg there was. hardly any. so i chose to play zerg. now... after the buff... i see a lot more zerg.. so weak.. pisses me off lol.

and doomdash, the skill gap IS pretty horrid. koreans have such great macro in general it is ridiculous. the further the game goes along, the less of a chance you have of winning, i see people that are diamond 1800+ in NA servers with their minerals exceeding 1000 in the 10 minute mark. your resources should never ever go past 800 unless you are getting ready to pump out mass amounts of expensive high tier units at once, waiting for the tech building to complete. NA players have a lot more wide variety of strats tho, and some can come out of nowhere tho. im going to try to play on both servers.

What about getting a KR account? I'm thinking about buying another copy of SC2 and switching back to random, because I can't find good practice games in customs and don't want to ruin my ladder stats. KR would be ideal, but I'm not sure if it's even possible to get KR bnet account if you're european. If not I guess I'll buy NA.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
What about getting a KR account? I'm thinking about buying another copy of SC2 and switching back to random, because I can't find good practice games in customs and don't want to ruin my ladder stats. KR would be ideal, but I'm not sure if it's even possible to get KR bnet account if you're european. If not I guess I'll buy NA.

I'm curious about this as well. Would be interesting to see the level of difficulty upfront between NA and KR


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


What about getting a KR account? I'm thinking about buying another copy of SC2 and switching back to random, because I can't find good practice games in customs and don't want to ruin my ladder stats. KR would be ideal, but I'm not sure if it's even possible to get KR bnet account if you're european. If not I guess I'll buy NA.


I plan to learn how to play zerg (not switching) fairly soon so if you want to start playing random, let me know

And if my math is correct, there's currently more protoss than zergs left in the GSL 0_o


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I plan to learn how to play zerg (not switching) fairly soon so if you want to start playing random, let me know

And if my math is correct, there's currently more protoss than zergs left in the GSL 0_o


Curious, why learn zerg?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Curious, why learn zerg?










Zerg was my primary race in BW but protoss was my primary in original SC. I want to play 2 races at diamond level.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Zerg was my primary race in BW but protoss was my primary in original SC. I want to play 2 races at diamond level.


ah I see, well, why not learn T and go random? You'll get to play all 3 races and T isn't crazy different from P(mechanics wise). Z is on a totally different level, lol


----------



## DoomDash

I always thought Z was easiest to learn since I started playing in beta. Probably my SC1 back ground... so I'm guessing thumper won't have a problem.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


As a zerg player I've never gotten the impression that T had trouble countering muta harass. Just don't go 3 base until you've pooped out enough marines to cover everything. It's not like marines are expensive. Put a barracks with reactor in every expo and poop away.


T hates muta's as much as anyone. Muta's are a huge pain and marines are cheap but easily taken out by muta balls split up. Plus Muta's go where marines aren't and try to bait stims.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, that still sounds really crazy in terms of gaps. I mean I've played most on here and I would say their macro is fantastic, so, I have a hard time believing that some who are diamond on here would be silver there







As to the length of the game, well, I've seen pro games go 40+min. I mean provided you have great macro and are constantly making units, harassing your opponent, scouting, etc.... then really you should be abe to extend the game and likely win it, since, you are chipping away at your opponent and extending your lead as time passes. Of course, you also have to factor in the different skill levels









Here I thought I was horrible for having >1000 minerals later in the game, when I'm only in silver, lol.


**** you have 2000 early game sometimes







.


----------



## cory1234

I think I'm done with 2v2s. I can't stand getting crappy partners. Although I did beat #1 in NA yesterday







. Just passed 2300 in 1v1s! WOOT.

Anyone else having trouble with SC2ranks.com lately? It hasn't updated for me in a couple of days.


----------



## DoomDash

2v2's are lame.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


2v2's are lame.


Yea. We should practice tomorrow.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I think I'm done with 2v2s. I can't stand getting crappy partners. Although I did beat #1 in NA yesterday







. Just passed 2300 in 1v1s! WOOT.

Anyone else having trouble with SC2ranks.com lately? It hasn't updated for me in a couple of days.


I hate 2vs2 when it's random, because, you can get the odd partners or you might have problems cooperating, but, if you play with someone you know or on here, then it's much easier to coordinate attacks and such. I was having problems with SC2ranks.com yesterday where it wasn't updating. I just kept at it and it eventually did. I would wait before refreshing that page otherwise it stops updating I think









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


**** you have 2000 early game sometimes







.










Come on, I don't get up to that mineral value that easily. It mostly happens when I feel I'm in control of the game and likely on the offensive since I don't take my eyes of my units, although, I've been working on continuing to make units regardless









Just had two epic games with banded. First was a TvsT on blistering sands, game lasted an hour and 5 min approximately. I pretty much turtled then gave him a nice surprise, lol, but, I would say he was the better player. I just figured where he was the weakest and hit him right at it









Second was a PvsT. Well, this one I had more control, got some nice ff and expanded like wildfire. I won this one because I was able to deny his exps while mine were run somewhat saturated







Unfortunately, game froze afterwards, so, I lost the replay.

@Banded gg, I think you did great, especially that first one, but, the second one wasn't too bad either. I think you should've tried attacking instead of letting tech up though







Do you think you can upload that second replay please? You can try sc2replayed for that or just zip the file and upload it here


----------



## poroboszcz

Woot! Public Test Realm has been launched for testing patch 1.2.0. NA only at the moment.

Some of the patch notes:

Quote:



• Battle.net Chat Channels have been added
• Stalemate Detection has been added
• When selecting a Vespene Geyser, the number of current harvesters will be displayed in the info panel
• An Extreme graphics option has been added
• Customizable Hotkey Support has been added
• Added a hotkey to Pause/Resume game for both single-player and multiplayer
• A new Master League has been added



Balance

Quote:



• PROTOSS

-- Hallucination research time decreased from 110 to 80.

-- Observer

Cost decreased from 50/100 to 25/75.

-- Phoenix
Build time decreased from 45 to 35.

-- Void Ray

Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.

Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.

• TERRAN

-- Bunker

Build time decreased from 35 to 30.

This is only a temporary change for the patch 1.2.0 PTR.

-- SCV

Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit theyâ€™re repairing.

SCV construction movement made more consistent.

• ZERG

-- Infestor

Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.


Source.

Chat channels!

Faster hallucination will definitely help Protoss early game scouting. Faster phoenixes gonna be even better against muta and possibly even more viable in other matchups. SCV/repair nerf has been long awaited. Not sure about void rays though. May finally be viable in PvP, but are going to suck against zerg without speed.


----------



## thiru

Fungal growth is a big change... finally changed SCV targeting.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah forgot the fungal growth. I guess phoenixes are going to be imba gainst zerg now. I'm surprised no roach nerf though.


----------



## BigFan

I like everything except FG. I mean it doesn't affect air units?







That's a huge change. This means that you can't use infestors to trap medivacs from escaping after an engagement or against mutas, etc.... Really disappointing TBH









^^The whole purpose of adding 20% damage for VRs against massive units is because Blizzard is thinking about using them against ultras. That PvsZ that Plexa wrote on TL mentioned how good VRs are for this and it seems that Blizzard wants P to use it against ultras, possibly BLs


----------



## EmMure

bigfan games?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
bigfan games?

hmm, maybe, not too sure. I still need to do a couple of things. If I get them done and I have the time, I'll jump on for a game or two, but, if I don't, I'll have to call it a night. So, basically, the question is can I be on by 12(~30min), we'll have to see







Those games I had with banded earlier on were just sooo long, crazy and exhausting because we were constantly trying to harass each other and he had me turtled for so long in the first game in my base on blistering sands. Having said that, there is nothing like turtling up with 40+ marines, couple of thors and 7-8 tanks upgraded max attacks and defense









Edit: Wanted to mention that observer decrease in cost is great, same with the phenoix thing. Maybe trying to make it so that P can at least keep up with muta production(not 1:1 ratio obviously), but, so that you can get them much faster


----------



## Lucas Lamer

What? 20% more void ray damage vs. ultralisk and brood lord? Looks like Blizzard wants big late-game Protoss armies to rofl-stomp Zerg even more than they already do. Maybe somebody thought ZvP games were dragging on too long.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I like everything except FG. I mean it doesn't affect air units?







That's a huge change. This means that you can't use infestors to trap medivacs from escaping after an engagement or against mutas, etc.... Really disappointing TBH









^^The whole purpose of adding 20% damage for VRs against massive units is because Blizzard is thinking about using them against ultras. That PvsZ that Plexa wrote on TL mentioned how good VRs are for this and it seems that Blizzard wants P to use it against ultras, possibly BLs









They rather had colossus in mind. Void rays already own zerg pretty bad.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Yeah forgot the fungal growth. I guess phoenixes are going to be imba gainst zerg now. I'm surprised no roach nerf though.

Making observers a lot cheaper is a roach nerf. Burrowed units won't be safe anywhere


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
What? 20% more void ray damage vs. ultralisk and brood lord? Looks like Blizzard wants big late-game Protoss armies to rofl-stomp Zerg even more than they already do. Maybe somebody thought ZvP games were dragging on too long.

Lol. Everybody knows Zerg late game is better than any other race. Their tier 3 units are the best in the game by far. I suppose they think Protoss is underrated, and maybe for once Protoss will have a slight advatange







. Terran had it's time, zerg had it's time, and maybe Protoss will finally get a chance? I doubt most of these updates will make it through. The only one I care about is scv repair damage. Everything else is a bonus.


----------



## Sainesk

does anyone know the current cheapest place to get SC2 in Canada at the moment?

I found it here for $50 but never heard of the place that sells it, anyone bought from here before?

or does anyone know what places do price matches?

thanks for any help...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
What? 20% more void ray damage vs. ultralisk and brood lord? Looks like Blizzard wants big late-game Protoss armies to rofl-stomp Zerg even more than they already do. Maybe somebody thought ZvP games were dragging on too long.

Well, BLs and ultras are pretty powerful late game especially if the Z player is on 3+ bases. Doubt that P late game roft-stomps Z as you mention. The only unit that's of major concern is that VRs. Carriers, motherships, phenoixes, etc.... are rarely used in any of my games. Likewise, wrap prisms aren't used either.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Making observers a lot cheaper is a roach nerf. Burrowed units won't be safe anywhere

well, it's only 25/25. This will at least mean that P players will now be able to make a cheaper stalker or sentry(if you consider the same total cost and deduce 25/25 from those units' costs). I think it's a good idea









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
does anyone know the current cheapest place to get SC2 in Canada at the moment?

I found it here for $50 but never heard of the place that sells it, anyone bought from here before?

or does anyone know what places do price matches?

thanks for any help...

I think futureshop, bestbuy do price matches, but, not sure about online store matching. I think ncix would price match but then there is shipping. I think easiest thing to do is just buy it for the $60 price because TBH, I don't know any legitimate places that sell it other than the ones I listed. Of course, there is also EB Games and likely more stores, but, FS and BB is where I get my games from







Hope that helps.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

I think futureshop

thanks, I think i'll try that tomorrow, would a print out of final price in cart+the url for the game be enough you think?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
thanks, I think i'll try that tomorrow, would a print out of final price in cart+the url for the game be enough you think?

Sorry, I should've clarified. They price match but not sure if they price-match items from online stores


----------



## T1nk3rb311

What's up with this newest patch?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
Lol. Everybody knows Zerg late game is better than any other race. Their tier 3 units are the best in the game by far. I suppose they think Protoss is underrated, and maybe for once Protoss will have a slight advatange







. Terran had it's time, zerg had it's time, and maybe Protoss will finally get a chance? I doubt most of these updates will make it through. The only one I care about is scv repair damage. Everything else is a bonus.

I think Protoss tier 3 is the best in the game. When colossus and high templar start getting mixed into a big ball of stalker/zealot/sentry Zerg is in serious trouble. If P has a few void rays it's even worse.


----------



## DoomDash

I swear I just posted but I don't see it. Anyway cool about all the battle.net changes, but the rest of the balance changes are kinda random.

ill be in channel overclock.net guys join me!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
I think Protoss tier 3 is the best in the game. When colossus and high templar start getting mixed into a big ball of stalker/zealot/sentry Zerg is in serious trouble. If P has a few void rays it's even worse.

I think its close between P and Z tier 3, but Z macro is not debatable.

GET IN THE CHAT CHANNELS GUYS I'm WAITING!!

How to get on:

The PTR is ONLINE, restart your Starcraft 2 to get the game files
Run the file Starcraft II Public Test.exe in your Starcraft II folder to launch the patcher. It is approx 100mb


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I think its close between P and Z tier 3, but Z macro is not debatable.

GET IN THE CHAT CHANNELS GUYS I'm WAITING!!

The way I look at it is to judge the tier 3 units by how well they complement the lower-tier units and increase the combat effectiveness of the army as a whole. Protoss tier 3 is awesome in that you can just mix it into an existing ball of of lower units and it's a fairly seamless and powerful transition. Ultralisk has a lot of problems because it's a melee unit and has pathing issues and gets stuck in traffic jams with lower-tier zerg units. Brood lord is painfully slow and puts the brakes on the speed of the larger army. Colossus, high templar, and void ray mesh WAY more easily with the lower P units.


----------



## EmMure

im getting on doom


----------



## DoomDash

owned protoss.. 14 hatch is back and better than ever!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

only noobs block then canon rush anyways. i kid, tons of pro k's do it.


----------



## DoomDash

Where are these talked about TvP adjustments? Sucks now the Thor build will be even worse vs void rays... w t f. VR's already could beat a Thor 1v1 pretty easily.


----------



## EmMure

i really enjoy tug of war


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Where are these talked about TvP adjustments? Sucks now the Thor build will be even worse vs void rays... w t f. VR's already could beat a Thor 1v1 pretty easily.

All thors have marines to hold their hands. Don't worry.

Dear Bliz,

Nerf Roach rage and mutas.


----------



## DoomDash

So I've been playing around stealing pro T strats for TvZ, and I must say although its still very hard I think I finally figured out how to play TvZ correctly. I cannot do it very good just yet, but the last game I had was a definite start. In fact I have to say the match up quite brilliant when I think about it, especially compared to the state of TvP which is a mess.

So, now I have to figure out how to hang with Protoss behind timing pushes. At this point I feel the same way everyone thinks about the match up... strong early, weak late. It's hard to even fathom an answer for this match up late game right now but I want to try it. Working my macro for TvZ may help me work on my macro for other match ups as well.

On a side note, I think the worst thing about my Terran and Terran in general is base layout. I swear to god that base layout is super duper important, and when it come down to it I'm down right awful. My bases are big cluster ****s and honestly probably cost me the game sometimes. Very very hard to build your bases correctly as Terran. You'll be surprised how many times a tech lab will screw you over, or a rally point to your units will make a unit get stuck ( something as important as a Thor ). Something I will have to try to think about and improve. I really love Terran though.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 









owned protoss.. 14 hatch is back and better than ever!

not quite sure what i'm seeing there?


----------



## Stance

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl* 
not quite sure what i'm seeing there? 









Same here.. not seeing it.

On another note, what kind of forced AA is everyone using now? The difference on screen is quite nice with 4x MSAA over none, but the blurry HUD is really a gamebreaker to me.
It's just much easier to track movement on the minimap without AA.


----------



## thiru

You now need 3 pylons to completely wall off.


----------



## Stance

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You now need 3 pylons to completely wall off.

Ah, hadn't noticed the positioning of the ramp in the screenshots. That's quite significant..


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Anyone tried v1.2? The Public Test?


----------



## yks

That's only on Steppes right? Forge against 14 hatch on Steppes was TOO imbalanced, even though I play toss, I'm glad they nerfed it.

But if they changed it on any other map, DAMN THEM.


----------



## vdek

Don't you love it when you have a completely one sided slaughter of an opponent who is smack talking you the entire game?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


That's only on Steppes right? Forge against 14 hatch on Steppes was TOO imbalanced, even though I play toss, I'm glad they nerfed it.

But if they changed it on any other map, DAMN THEM.


That's why good zergs 7pool on steppes. It's imba as well in zerg's favor.


----------



## yks

Quote:

You can no longer hold down a key to perform multiple copies of the same action. You need to hit D 10 times to make 10 drones. This applies to ALL races and ALL abilities and units
Wait. Wait. So how am I suppose to Forcefield? I shift+X for warpgate units, but how are you suppose to
_
Forcefield, Storm, or Snipe_

Shift+F click click click, or Shift+T click click click, or Shift+R click click click; does *NOT* work after issuing an A+Move


----------



## poroboszcz

F, click, F, click, F, click.


----------



## yks

Serious? =/


----------



## poroboszcz

Well, now with custom hotkeys, you can make it: Q, click, Q, click, Q click if you want.

That's how I used to cast storm anyway. For some reason clicking on enemy's army while holding a key would sometimes result in the enemy unit being selected, and then no spell casted. That's especially annoying with forcefields. You would have to reselect your units and cast it again. Pressing spell hot key before each click ensures that your spell is casted every time.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sorry, I should've clarified. They price match but not sure if they price-match items from online stores










they said they don't match from online stores, then I said they have some retail locations, then they said okay they'll match it but can't give me an extra 10% off like on usual price matches since there isn't one in my province.

Yay, no waiting for shipping, now to think of a clever nickname...


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


they said they don't match from online stores, then I said they have some retail locations, then they said okay they'll match it but can't give me an extra 10% off like on usual price matches since there isn't one in my province.

Yay, no waiting for shipping, now to think of a clever nickname...


If your on the North American servers add me: Inferno.383.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*











owned protoss.. 14 hatch is back and better than ever!


lol, well, I just finished watching GSL 2 finals between foxer and nestea. One of the main things that caught my attention was what tasteless said about going 15 hatch. He said that on the Korean servers, going 15 hatch is basically asking to lose the game(not exact word, but, that's its just a bad idea because T's will punish you for it when they scout it). I do have to say that the first couple of matches were great, but, the last 2-3 matches were just meh. I disliked how Foxer used the same move over and over, because, even though it was effective the first time, nestea started playing it safe









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


That's why good zergs 7pool on steppes. It's imba as well in zerg's favor.


lol, 7 pool is as cheesy as 6 pool, no thanks









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


F, click, F, click, F, click.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Serious? =/


^^What's wrong with what poroboszcz suggested. It's the same thing that I do when I cast ff. I select all my units, press f, click location of ff, rinse and repeat, although, I can see why you would be upset about that









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


they said they don't match from online stores, then I said they have some retail locations, then they said okay they'll match it but can't give me an extra 10% off like on usual price matches since there isn't one in my province.

Yay, no waiting for shipping, now to think of a *clever nickname*...


Hook me up with one, will ya?







I only chose the same ingame name as the forums because everyone already knows it and I can never come up with any cool nicknames


----------



## DoomDash

I think it takes 3 pylons on every map now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think it takes 3 pylons on every map now.


Really? That's quite a change. TBH, I never saw anything wrong with using the 2 pylons to block the ramp in the first place, since, it seemed like a legitimate strat. I just hated when it was done to me as Z because I would be confined and usually lose the game since they are free to expand, although, if it ever happens to me now, I'll just tech up quite fast while droning hard, laying down more hatcheries and making lots of slings to attack any wrap in units near my choke









BTW, what did you think of chat rooms? As good as the SC ones or better? It would be great if we can have more than 4 in a party though, that's really my major complain. I mean what if we want to play 4vs4 or do 4vs4 with some spectating, maybe 1vs1 with 8 people spectating. The results are endless but the limits to how can be in a party isn't, although, it might be possible to have 8+ and I don't know about it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Really? That's quite a change. TBH, I never saw anything wrong with using the 2 pylons to block the ramp in the first place, since, it seemed like a legitimate strat










Me neither it was good.

But w/e. Any way I'm on the test server in channel overclock.net guys.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Me neither it was good.

But w/e. Any way I'm on the test server in channel overclock.net guys.


Nice, I'll be trying the PTR myself soon. I just need to take a nap otherwise I might faint playing SC2. Blame it on Foxer and Nestea







I'll try to be on in 30min-1 hour or so


----------



## DoomDash

Is it just me or is ladder really screwed up on PTR? Thumper I think you're in my Silver division







.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Is it just me or is ladder really screwed up on PTR? Thumper I think you're in my Silver division







.


That's probably me as I am in silver







I played against 2 really good players last night. One had a Korean name. Are people from all around the world being placed in the same server for 1.2? And some protoss told he went from diamond to gold (which is better than silver any way).

Silver FTW

Will be on shortly..


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think its available to anyone but NA people. I could be wrong but thats what it sounded like in the FAQ.

Yeah I played Z in m y placement matches and well the last 2 guys crushed me ( they were very good ). Oh well. Now look at my match history and the point system doesn't make much sense at this point ( if you look at all the guys I've played ranks ).

Get in our channel!


----------



## thx1138

Sorry if this has been covered before but I just bought the game today.

Why in the world is my full name available to see in battle net? Are they also giving out my address as well?? How can I take my full name out? How invasive......


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thx1138*


Sorry if this has been covered before but I just bought the game today.

Why in the world is my full name available to see in battle net? Are they also giving out my address as well?? How can I take my full name out? How invasive......


No one can see your full name unless you give them your email, or use the facebook friend finder.

To have people add you with out that information you give your screen name and the number that shows when you high light your character icon.


----------



## thx1138

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No one can see your full name unless you give them your email, or use the facebook friend finder.

To have people add you with out that information you give your screen name and the number that shows when you high light your character icon.


But when I go to multiplayer and click on my profile in the upper right it says

Quote:



_
player name (my real name)_


----------



## DoomDash

No one else sees that UNLESS you give out your email, or if you use the facebook friend finder. You can see it, but no one else can.


----------



## thx1138

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
No one else sees that UNLESS you give out your email, or if you use the facebook friend finder. You can see it, but no one else can.

Gotcha, I still think it's invasive. I have to be online for achievements and there's no way I can make myself invisible? wuuuttt.


----------



## yks

How is it invasive if no one else can see it....


----------



## burwij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thx1138* 
Gotcha, I still think it's invasive. I have to be online for achievements and there's no way I can make myself invisible? wuuuttt.

Word on the street is that Blizzard's end-goal with Battle.net is to compete with Steam as a distribution service. There was an internal document leaked last week that looks semi-legitimate that refers to "BNET2 3rd Parties" - it wouldn't surprise me if the next Call of Duty title ties in with B.net instead of Steam.

Not sure if this was posted here or not, but here's the picture anyway:










Again, take it with a grain of salt, but the timeline looks pretty believable.

Edit: No idea what "SC2 Phoenix" is, but I read some guy's guess involving them re-doing the SC1 campaigns in the SC2 engine, which would be pretty cool.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, 7 pool is as cheesy as 6 pool, no thanks









Not really. A 'cheese' strategy when scouted should lose you the game because of no good follow-up. 7 pool on steppes is absolutely viable and very effective. Have a look at these three games. Mind you that Mini is currently the highest ranked protoss on the ladder, so he definitely knows what he's doing.

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40174
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40175
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40176

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Is it just me or is ladder really screwed up on PTR? Thumper I think you're in my Silver division







.

Are you playing on Huggle? I would pop in for some games.


----------



## DoomDash

You can go on huggle







.


----------



## Sainesk

these character codes, does this mean you're the for example, 800th person with that name, or is the number you get just random?


----------



## DoomDash

random.


----------



## ThumperSD

Damn it im having consecutive off days -_-

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Word on the street is that Blizzard's end-goal with Battle.net is to compete with Steam as a distribution service. There was an internal document leaked last week that looks semi-legitimate that refers to "BNET2 3rd Parties" - it wouldn't surprise me if the next Call of Duty title ties in with B.net instead of Steam.

Not sure if this was posted here or not, but here's the picture anyway:










Again, take it with a grain of salt, but the timeline looks pretty believable.

Edit: No idea what "SC2 Phoenix" is, but I read some guy's guess involving them re-doing the SC1 campaigns in the SC2 engine, which would be pretty cool.

Bnet is going to fail if Blizz decides to do that. I already hate Bnet2 20x more than Steam.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## Mwarren

Anyone up for some practice games tomorrow? I just switched over to Zerg and could use some practice.


----------



## DoomDash

OK I'm re-convinced that Zerg is ****ing bogus. Muta's are such bull****. They force into Thor's which prevents you getting siege tanks for banes... Stim marines are not fast enough, and you can never have enough turrets. I need to have a talk with Bilzzard.


----------



## ThumperSD

Mutas make me RAGE!! nah jk but they are quite annoying. I lose almost every game when my opponent transitions to mutas when im trying to defend 3 bases. Even with blink it's a PITA. This makes me 4 gate more often than I'd like against zerg.

Im thinking of dedicating some time this winter break to make a Master's run... IDK if I can though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burwij* 
Word on the street is that Blizzard's end-goal with Battle.net is to compete with Steam as a distribution service. There was an internal document leaked last week that looks semi-legitimate that refers to "BNET2 3rd Parties" - it wouldn't surprise me if the next Call of Duty title ties in with B.net instead of Steam.

Not sure if this was posted here or not, but here's the picture anyway:










Again, take it with a grain of salt, but the timeline looks pretty believable.

*Edit: No idea what "SC2 Phoenix" is, but I read some guy's guess involving them re-doing the SC1 campaigns in the SC2 engine, which would be pretty cool.*

If they do that, it would be so sweet(SC2 Phoenix). Really hope they do because I would love sc1 using sc2 engine, although, I would like it if they tried to keep the portraits, voices, etc.... which I'm guessing they'll do. As to the whole idea of distribution service, personally not a big fan of steam, not too happy with that news if it's true? BTW, what is titan?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
these character codes, does this mean you're the for example, 800th person with that name, or is the number you get just random?

totally random.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Not really. A 'cheese' strategy when scouted should lose you the game because of no good follow-up. 7 pool on steppes is absolutely viable and very effective. Have a look at these three games. Mind you that Mini is currently the highest ranked protoss on the ladder, so he definitely knows what he's doing.

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40174
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40175
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/40176

Are you playing on Huggle? I would pop in for some games.

Maybe I should've explained myself better, what I meant was that it feels too easy of a win if you are able to micro you zlings to kill his workers and prevent a surround


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do I have to pull up all my posts that said "nerf mutas"?

I do feel sorry for marines vs banelings. Everytime I watch a gsl game I'm always thinking RUN marine RUN.


----------



## EmMure

bigfan,games?|


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Do I have to pull up all my posts that said "nerf mutas"?

I do feel sorry for marines vs banelings. Everytime I watch a gsl game I'm always thinking RUN marine RUN.

It's so dumb that Terran has to play absolutely perfect to prevent 1A Z from winning late game. The mobility of Muta's vs the least mobile units ever also sucks. Why can't vikings be ****ing valks!?!??!? God damn you Blizzard. I hate the damn Thor for Terrans splash damage muta counter.. its too ****ing slow.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Mutas make me RAGE!! nah jk but they are quite annoying. I lose every game when my opponent transitions to mutas when im trying to defend 3 bases. Even with blink it's a PITA.

Im thinking of dedicating some time this winter break to make a Master's run... IDK if I can though

I will be master I promise.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
OK I'm re-convinced that Zerg is ****ing bogus. Muta's are such bull****. They force into Thor's which prevents you getting siege tanks for banes... Stim marines are not fast enough, and you can never have enough turrets. I need to have a talk with Bilzzard.

I'll tell you what Zergs have been told since Z was considered UP. L2P







JK of course, they are hard to deal with if they have 30+ but not impossible with marines. Infact, I wouldn't mind playing a TvsZ game against you and you can go all the mutas you want, to see how well I can hold up









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Mutas make me RAGE!! nah jk but they are quite annoying

Im thinking of *dedicating some time this winter break* to make a Master's run... IDK if I can though

Would be nice to do, but, in my cases, too many things to do, gl with your run though


----------



## Live_free

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Is it just me or is ladder really screwed up on PTR? Thumper I think you're in my Silver division







.

I'm in silver too, Protoss. It was the first ladder I was put into after qualifiers.

PROTOSS FTW.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
bigfan,games?|

Unfortunately, I can't. I'm actually getting ready for bed, need to wake up early and I only got 3.5hr of sleep last night, so, I'm exhausted, but, I'll be good to go for tommorrow









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's so dumb that Terran has to play absolutely perfect to prevent 1A Z from winning late game. The mobility of Muta's vs the least mobile units ever also sucks. Why can't vikings be ****ing valks!?!??!? God damn you Blizzard. I hate the damn Thor for Terrans splash damage muta counter.. its too ****ing slow.

You make it sound like T is impossible to play. I will admit that late game T is worse than late game P or Z, but, if the GSL is any indication of how ZvsT is, I would say it's *somewhat* balanced, maybe a little nerf for Z but nothing major









@Thumper Storms are great against mass mutas. I don't really care what people say, even if mutas are fast, they'll take decent damage before moving out and this doesn't take into account storming them again as they run away from the first one


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm in bronze after 2-3 placement. 4 PvZ's 2 on jungle basin and 2 on crap station. That's a bad luck lol.


----------



## Live_free

With terran if you don't put on early pressure and do slow and precise attacks with seige tanks to get range out and pull enemy in you're doing it wrong.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

You make it sound like T is impossible to play. I will admit that late game T is worse than late game P or Z, but, if the GSL is any indication of how ZvsT is, I would say it's *somewhat* balanced, maybe a little nerf for Z but nothing major









Look at how Terrans are winning: Gimmicks or very dedicated rushing to avoid mid-game / late game. That shows one thing : Something is wrong with the match up. It's the same thing for TvP, gimmicks or timing pushes, anything to avoid the late game.

Yes Jinro so far has shown that macro is possible, but so far mainly against WCIII players ( not known for their macro ). He has yet to be really tested by a Z I respect as a macro Z.

Something is wrong with the match up.. the all in / gimmick Terrans are proving that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I'll tell you what Zergs have been told since Z was considered UP. L2P







JK of course, they are hard to deal with if they have 30+ but not impossible with marines. Infact, I wouldn't mind playing a TvsZ game against you and you can go all the mutas you want, to see how well I can hold up










Sorry but you will never be able to simulate what they are doing until your macro is much improved. It's just the truth. I'm sure I can stop Platinum and belows Z's, but it's ones around my rating that are just moping the floor with me generally.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
*Look at how Terrans are winning: Gimmicks or very dedicated rushing to avoid mid-game / late game.* That shows one thing : Something is wrong with the match up. It's the same thing for TvP, gimmicks or timing pushes, anything to avoid the late game.

Yes Jinro so far has shown that macro is possible, but so far mainly against WCIII players ( not known for their macro ). *He has yet to be really tested by a Z I respect as a macro Z.*

Something is wrong with the match up.. the all in / gimmick Terrans are proving that.

Well, I won't disagree with you on that point. The last 3 games of foxer vs. nestea was the same strategy over and over, it was a bit annoying to watch, lol. Well, colossi mop the floor with barrack unit. If you get critical mass(4+ colossi) with a decent stalker+sentry army, it's GG. An example of this is when I played against banded the other night, I had 5 colossi with stalkers+sentries. His MM+thor army stood no chance, really OP in my opinion. As to how to change Z end game, well, that's up to Blizzard, I just play with what I'm given









I haven't seen Jinro's games, but, to me, it sounds like unless he plays Nestea/fruitdealer/idra, basically someone who do well macroing, and wins the match, you won't be satisfied. Well, I think adding banes made MM kinda worthless in the late game and BLs shooting broods make them OP even though they move slow. As to ultra, I think they fine the way they are









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Sorry but you will never be able to simulate what they are doing until your macro is much improved. It's just the truth. I'm sure I can stop Platinum and belows Z's, but it's ones around my rating that are just moping the floor with me generally.

My macro problem stems from a lack of scouting and getting enough units to do a counter without going overboard, so, that'll improve if I can get more games played. However, I still wouldn't mind playing T or P against your Z since I need the practice







The thing is, you should never let a Z macro, period. I'm sure you already know this, but, timing pushes are what a T or P must do and taking down an exp can be game turning. I haven't seen your TvsZ game other than that banelings one, but, if you don't pressure them throughout the match, it's pretty much GG. I'm sure Blizzard will do some nerfs if they feel it's appropriate









Anyways, I'm heading to bed, but, feel free to take me up on my offer tommorrow if you are interested







For once, you can be the one doing the bane bust against a T


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure Z will be nerfed in time. Which is why I keep playing. It's frustrating. I do marine pressure and fast expand vs Zerg now. Last game I was 2 base vs 2 base and 20 supply ahead and I still lost to mass speedlings / banes with the muta harass. The problem is I can't apply any pressure while Muta's are harassing. I think that's the entire problem. I know how to play the match in theory it just doesn't work that way because of Muta map control, especially on large maps where your immobile terran army is incredibly easy to get ready for. I do blame this old computer for making me get WRECKED that game, but I don't think it would have mattered if I wasn't lagging bad during my slaughter or not.. just woulda have been slightly less one sided.

I really wish I wouldn't ***** about it but I just can't help it when I'm super pissed.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't think its available to anyone but NA people. I could be wrong but thats what it sounded like in the FAQ.

Yeah I played Z in m y placement matches and well the last 2 guys crushed me ( they were very good ). Oh well. Now look at my match history and the point system doesn't make much sense at this point ( if you look at all the guys I've played ranks ).

Get in our channel!

Haven't lost in the test server yet, but I have barely played. The pylons don't really bother me much, but it still seems like zerg is even more comfortable 14/15 hatching now.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

After 2-3 months ladder lay off I'm going back to SC2 ladder. Finally got two jobs and have stable income. If you want practice let me know:

mathieu 519. prolly a silver protoss player atm


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I will be master I promise.

Do it


----------



## DoomDash

If every match was TvP I'd be like 2500 by now







.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm sure Z will be nerfed in time. Which is why I keep playing. It's frustrating. I do marine pressure and fast expand vs Zerg now. Last game I was 2 base vs 2 base and 20 supply ahead and I still lost to mass speedlings / banes with the muta harass. The problem is I can't apply any pressure while Muta's are harassing. I think that's the entire problem. I know how to play the match in theory it just doesn't work that way because of Muta map control, especially on large maps where your immobile terran army is incredibly easy to get ready for. I do blame this old computer for making me get WRECKED that game, but I don't think it would have mattered if I wasn't lagging bad during my slaughter or not.. just woulda have been slightly less one sided.

I really wish I wouldn't ***** about it but I just can't help it when I'm super pissed.










Why not build some vikings and ravens if mutas are bugging you? Vikings have 9 range to mutas' 3 and ravens can throw down PDD's and autoturrets. I don't know why so many Terrans are reluctant to get vikings. I play zerg and I don't like spending on corruptors but there are times when you need to spend whatever it takes to control the airspace over your bases and ground units. And it's not like vikings and ravens are useless except for air defense.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Why not build some vikings and ravens if mutas are bugging you? Vikings have 9 range to mutas' 3 and ravens can throw down PDD's and autoturrets. I don't know why so many Terrans are reluctant to get vikings. I play zerg and I don't like spending on corruptors but there are times when you need to spend whatever it takes to control the airspace over your bases and ground units. And it's not like vikings and ravens are useless except for air defense.

Vikings suck, and Raven's are too gas heavy and slow to ever be effective vs Muta. I would like them if Seeker was better. I've tried viking builds they are terrible vs muta. That's the problem







. I want valks!

Anyway I have a really cool idea for a TvT opener that I will be doing now







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 

Anyway I have a really cool idea for a TvT opener that I will be doing now







.

As you guys remember I had wrote a nice SCII guide on TvP Thor 250 MM cannon timing pushes @ SCArena. Well I decided to write another one though its more of a theory build so far. It basically goes over my idea behind it, and why I think it will be a good build.

Let me know what you guys think:

http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=34217.0


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Vikings suck, and Raven's are too gas heavy and slow to ever be effective vs Muta. I would like them if Seeker was better. I've tried viking builds they are terrible vs muta. That's the problem







. I want valks!

Anyway I have a really cool idea for a TvT opener that I will be doing now







.


The slowness of Ravens isn't really a problem if you're using them for base defense. And what's wrong with vikings? They can lob long-range shots at mutas and the mutas won't be able to retaliate without coming within the firing range of marines, missile turrets, and autoturrets, not to mention point defense drones. Sure, ravens and vikings are kinda expensive but so are mutas. As a general rule if you want to counter an expensive unit you might have to buy an expensive unit of your own. I don't think that's unreasonable.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Vikings suck, and Raven's are too gas heavy and slow to ever be effective vs Muta. I would like them if Seeker was better. I've tried viking builds they are terrible vs muta. That's the problem







. I want valks!

Anyway I have a really cool idea for a TvT opener that I will be doing now







.


I've seen a few games on youtube where the T mass ravened as support and killed off large muta flock easily with pdd and seeker.


----------



## poroboszcz

Is it just me or are there no noobs on the test realm? While bronze players are pretty weak, silver is already like high plat/lower diamond lol. Even bronze players seem much better than an average gold on normal ladder.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Is it just me or are there no noobs on the test realm? While bronze players are pretty weak, silver is already like high plat/lower diamond lol. Even bronze players seem much better than an average gold on normal ladder.


Yea me and Doom mentioned that. Seems like all of the good players are testing the PTR.


----------



## thx1138

You guys have aloso probably already talked about this too but, the arcade game in in the cantina is the most awesome galaga knock off ever. Lol nothing in this game is original but they do a good job on making it worth playing.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thx1138*


You guys have aloso probably already talked about this too but, the arcade game in in the cantina is the most awesome galaga knock off ever. Lol nothing in this game is original but they do a good job on making it worth playing.


What isnt original about SC2(not lost viking)? What game did Blizzard copy?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Do it










Nah, doubt he can make it into the master league, he's not that talented








^^How's that for motivation?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Why not build some vikings and ravens if mutas are bugging you? Vikings have 9 range to mutas' 3 and ravens can throw down PDD's and autoturrets. I don't know why so many Terrans are reluctant to get vikings. I play zerg and I don't like spending on corruptors but there are times when you need to spend whatever it takes to control the airspace over your bases and ground units. And it's not like vikings and ravens are useless except for air defense.


Problem is mass vikings are bad against mass mutas due to bounce and stacking. Of course, if you add in a raven for ppd and use their long range to draw mutas into your marines, thor, etc.... then they are a force to reckon with. Personally, I think they are underrated big time like the mothership, because, they are mainly used for sniping colossi against P, not sure what they are used for against Z.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Vikings suck, and Raven's are too gas heavy and slow to ever be effective vs Muta. I would like them if Seeker was better. I've tried viking builds they are terrible vs muta. That's the problem







. I want valks!

Anyway I have a really cool idea for a TvT opener that I will be doing now







.


I disagree. Vikings aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Yes, they are slow, but, their long range, the fact that they can be reparied, having decent damage and hp, means that they are pretty good units. They can also become ground units which is something that is overlooked quite often and could lead to interesting strategies. This is one of the major reasons that I like vikings, why not go for viking attacks and then lift off before they attack them? In one of the games of Boxer against Nada(delta one), he lands three in Nada bases and take out some SCVs before changing them back to air and escaping before the tanks take a shot. That's exactly what makes them good to me, basically the ability to land anywhere, do some damage and run away, similar to mutas, just not as speedy and of course, that's a vulnerability that they have aside from the 3sec change to air mode









I think the problem is that you are still stuck thinking about valks a lot. Forgot about them and next time he goes mutas, make a couple of vikings, use a ppd and then the vikings long range to take out some mutas before engaging them. My only gripe with vikings is they are pretty slow to compensate for their range, damage, hp, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Is it just me or are there no noobs on the test realm? While bronze players are pretty weak, silver is already like high plat/lower diamond lol. Even bronze players seem much better than an average gold on normal ladder.


hmm, maybe only those who are Plat/Diamond thought it would be a good idea or those from the lower leagues who jumped it and were knocked around, were discouraged and decided to forget about the public test









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I've seen a few games on youtube where the T mass ravened as support and killed off large muta flock easily with pdd and seeker.


Seeker is effective if you can get the raven infront of the mutas, but, a good player will fly away from the raven or better yet focus fire it







PDD is great on the other hand









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


The slowness of Ravens isn't really a problem if you're using them for base defense. And what's wrong with vikings? They can lob long-range shots at mutas and the mutas won't be able to retaliate without coming within the firing range of marines, missile turrets, and autoturrets, not to mention point defense drones. Sure, ravens and vikings are kinda expensive but so are mutas. As a general rule if you want to counter an expensive unit you might have to buy an expensive unit of your own. I don't think that's unreasonable.


Definitely reasonable









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


After 2-3 months ladder lay off I'm going back to SC2 ladder. Finally got two jobs and have stable income. If you want practice let me know:

mathieu 519. prolly a silver protoss player atm


Nice, I'm in Silver, could always used practice against P


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What isnt original about SC2(not lost viking)? What game did Blizzard copy?










I think he means the lost viking game. As for sc being original, heard that TA was some inspiration or came before it and might have affected how sc was developed(units, abilities, etc....), but, not too sure about that


----------



## ThumperSD

What is TA? And he said nothing about SC2 is original


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


What is TA? And he said nothing about SC2 is original


Total Annihilation: Linky

As to the game being unoriginal, can't comment on that one


----------



## Lune

Cannon rushed the cannon rusher and void rayed them : /


----------



## ThumperSD

What are the similarities of TA and SC besides both taking place in space? WC & WC2 did come out before TA









And no Im not a Blizzard fanboy any more.. I used to be though when they were a good company


----------



## thx1138

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
What isnt original about SC2(not lost viking)? What game did Blizzard copy?









I don't mean they copied any particular game I just said none of it is very original. Don't get me wrong I'm really into sc2 right now. But:

The gameplay is uninspired (nothing new here that I haven't seen in other RTS games) infact it kind of lacks things of normal RTS games. Only 2 resources to collect? Seriously?

The character's and their attitudes/style is cliched to the max. The cutscenes look great and the voice acting is superb but everyone is a walking stereotype nothing new here.

The whole storyline can be traced to multiple sci-fi's just change the names of the people and the groups.

But like I said despite everything not being all that original it is a well polished game worth playing and I've already had hours of entertainment out of it. With the weapons upgrades and various settings it's enough to keep you interested for a while. I've never played sc1 but I'm an avid RTS player.


----------



## BigFan

Going to give the PTR a try now. Hopefully, someone is in the overclock.net channel







On the bright side, I have a clean sheet for MP, so, go go random fun!


----------



## xHassassin

Just lost to a diamond zerg 3-0. Need to learn baneling micro.










I had like double the army in two games, and it just plummeted like mad.


----------



## BigFan

Just finished trying PTR and I have to say I must have the worst luck with going random, lol. I was Terran 4 out of 5 games. First game was a TvsT on sands. I got a nice drop taking down most of his SCVs at his main with some depots, etc.... but I didn't pull out in time, so, I lost those units. He attacked afterwards with a massive marine+7 tanks(with siege) force but he left mysteriously, lol, so, I got a win








The only game I was Zerg was against another Zerg on scrap station and I lost to mass slings








I didn't even get a chance to play P, did I mention I lost as a T against a P who used an observer to blink into my base on shaukras plateau and took me completely off guard? lol.

Although, my last game, I played against that same P and easily took the game with my MMT army. His VRs stood no chance against my stimmed marines and his zealots+stalkers melted infront of the power of MMT. I had terrible macro though and it was because of mules that I was able to keep up with his till later in the game where it was 31 to 44 workers in his favour.

Curious, anyone here who had played TvsT, do you notice that it turns into a MMT match? Every game I played TvsT, it's always attack first, contain inside base and then move in. It's rather repetitive, since, there are no banshees and MMM doesn't seem to be present


----------



## DoomDash

Vikings suck and I'll stand by my statement. They are good against Voids, capitol ships, corrupters ( OK ), colossus ect, but they are terrible against muta especially because you have to dedicate a lot of your precious resources on stargates. Even if you kill the muta's any left over army he has will easily clean up your army + your vikings because on the ground they are pretty bad. If you don't think they are bad then I really don't see the point in arguing about it.

And TvT is pretty different as far as openers... but MMTV is pretty standard over all. TvT is to me the most technical match up in the game. Being good at TvT says something about you IMO... and I'm not that good at it TBH. As soon as I'm beating Terrans at the level I beat Protoss I will know I am getting pretty good. Zerg... they just don't count.

I'm Platinum in PTR now.


----------



## slytown

You Tube





Just watched this match. Pretty sweet. They switch bases. I might have to get Starcraft 2. I played Starcraft 1 a long time ago.


----------



## DoomDash

qxc is my fellow observer mars brother.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thx1138* 
I don't mean they copied any particular game I just said none of it is very original. Don't get me wrong I'm really into sc2 right now. But:

The gameplay is uninspired (nothing new here that I haven't seen in other RTS games) infact it kind of lacks things of normal RTS games. Only 2 resources to collect? Seriously?

The character's and their attitudes/style is cliched to the max. The cutscenes look great and the voice acting is superb but everyone is a walking stereotype nothing new here.

The whole storyline can be traced to multiple sci-fi's just change the names of the people and the groups.

But like I said despite everything not being all that original it is a well polished game worth playing and I've already had hours of entertainment out of it. With the weapons upgrades and various settings it's enough to keep you interested for a while. I've never played sc1 but I'm an avid RTS player.

While I agree that the character's acting is cliche, I disagree about the lack of resources to collect. I'd freak out if there were more than 2 resources to collect. 2 is perfect in my eyes.

I dont think SC2 was meant to revolutionize RTS as Blizzard has already done that with WC. They kind of just kept the things that worked well and added things that would make the game better. I think this lack of change is definitely a good thing. Some times trying to hard makes the game more complicated than needed. Just my opinion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Vikings suck and I'll stand by my statement. They are good against Voids, capitol ships, corrupters ( OK ), colossus ect, but they are terrible against muta especially because you have to dedicate a lot of your precious resources on stargates. Even if you kill the muta's any left over army he has will easily clean up your army + your vikings because on the ground they are pretty bad. If you don't think they are bad then I really don't see the point in arguing about it.

And TvT is pretty different as far as openers... but MMTV is pretty standard over all. TvT is to me the most technical match up in the game. Being good at TvT says something about you IMO... and I'm not that good at it TBH. As soon as I'm beating Terrans at the level I beat Protoss I will know I am getting pretty good. Zerg... they just don't count.

I'm Platinum in PTR now.

Viking is indeed bad against mutas unless it's in small numbers. It's meant to counter larger, armored, slower air units. Thor/marine is much better against mutas but they lack mobility to keep up with the mutas.


----------



## yks

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/state-of-the-game

listen.


----------



## DoomDash

What did I miss?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Vikings suck and I'll stand by my statement. They are good against Voids, capitol ships, corrupters ( OK ), colossus ect, but they are terrible against muta especially because you have to dedicate a lot of your precious resources on stargates. Even if you kill the muta's any left over army he has will easily clean up your army + your vikings because on the ground they are pretty bad. If you don't think they are bad then I really don't see the point in arguing about it.

And TvT is pretty different as far as openers... but MMTV is pretty standard over all. TvT is to me the most technical match up in the game. Being good at TvT says something about you IMO... and I'm not that good at it TBH. As soon as I'm beating Terrans at the level I beat Protoss I will know I am getting pretty good. *Zerg... they just don't count*.

I'm Platinum in PTR now.

What's wrong with having a single stargate with a reactor and then making 2 vikings every once in a while? I mean it won't cost much to make especially if you are on two bases. I do like your bias against Z though









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
While I agree that the character's acting is cliche, I disagree about the lack of resources to collect. I'd freak out if there were more than 2 resources to collect. 2 is perfect in my eyes.

I dont think SC2 was meant to revolutionize RTS as Blizzard has already done that with WC. They kind of just kept the things that worked well and added things that would make the game better. I think this lack of change is definitely a good thing. Some times trying to hard makes the game more complicated than needed. Just my opinion.

Viking is indeed bad against mutas unless it's in small numbers. It's meant to counter larger, armored, slower air units. Thor/marine is much better against mutas but they lack mobility to keep up with the mutas.

I agree, 2 is fine. Going 4 like AOE would be interesting, but, you'll be really limited in terms of getting structures up because you'll have to constantly protect your workers as they mine(stone, gold, etc.... in AOE) and thus won't have money for structures. Of course, this assumes the resources are far away from your base









The thing is, I'm not disagreeing with the idea of Thor/marine being a better counter to mutas than vikings. My point was that when you exp, put up the usual turrets, put some marines with a medivac or two and have one or two vikings so that you can try to lure the mutas into the marines as Lucas mentioned. Also, using ppd with vikings can really turn things into your favour. You don't need to have 20 ravens, 1-2 with a bunch of vikings especially if you keep on placing ppd and then snipe the mutas as they run. If you even want to, you *might* be able to sneak a raven behind them(if you already know they are coming due to scouting) and use a seeker missile. If they are engaging from the front, chances are that your opponent won't be expecting the missile or better yet, he *might* run into it if he decides to run away instead of taking down the ppd


----------



## DoomDash

Still sucks. Been there done that. Muta can eat so many viking shots I don't think it will ever matter, and they are really a waste of money. Also Muta's are the second or 3rd fastest unit in the game, do you really think they will just stick around for that PDD? Seeker missiles are good until you see them once.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Still sucks. Been there done that. Muta can eat so many viking shots I don't think it will ever matter, and they are really a waste of money. Also Muta's are the second or 3rd fastest unit in the game, do you really think they will just stick around for that PDD? Seeker missiles are good until you see them once.

Maybe blizzard can slightly increase the missiles speed to make it better, likewise increase raven speed?









Well, next time I play against a Z, I'll be trying some vikings to have my own experience


----------



## BigFan

BTW, doom, let me the first to say happy Bday







I guess my gift to you would be playing a game against you and *allowing* you to win, lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
BTW, doom, let me the first to say happy Bday







I guess my gift to you would be playing a game against you and *allowing* you to win, lol









Thanks







. How did you figure out its my birthday? My profile?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Thanks







. How did you figure out its my birthday? My profile?

Pretty much


----------



## thiru

Woah
Happy Birthday!









(good thing I didn't go to sleep yet







)


----------



## DoomDash

thanks thanks ^^.


----------



## BigFan

Let's have an FFA to celebrate


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Let's have an FFA to celebrate










I'm going to try and power nap and get up for GSL in 3 hours.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm going to try and power nap and get up for GSL in 3 hours.


lol, I see, well, I tried


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.livestream.com/huskystarcraft


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Still sucks. Been there done that. Muta can eat so many viking shots I don't think it will ever matter, and they are really a waste of money. Also Muta's are the second or 3rd fastest unit in the game, do you really think they will just stick around for that PDD? Seeker missiles are good until you see them once.


Mutas won't stick around? Isn't that a good thing? You were complaining about muta harass being a problem, so if you scare away the mutas then there's no more problem, right? And I don't think anybody is saying vikings are great without supporting units. If you use vikings in conjunction with marines, turrets, ravens, or thors, then they are very powerful in controlling big chunks of airspace with their 9 range.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer* 
Mutas won't stick around? Isn't that a good thing? You were complaining about muta harass being a problem, so if you scare away the mutas then there's no more problem, right? And I don't think anybody is saying vikings are great without supporting units. If you use vikings in conjunction with marines, turrets, ravens, or thors, then they are very powerful in controlling big chunks of airspace with their 9 range.

Pretty much









If anyone is up for a game, I'm on ATM


----------



## banded1

here you go bigfan
dont you have the replay? or did you lose it lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
here you go bigfan
dont you have the replay? or did you lose it lol

thanks banded. SC2 freezes every once in a while, not sure of the reason, but, the game can be short or 20+min and right after, bam, it's frozen, so, I have to close the game by force(ctrl+alt+del) and lose the replay in the process. Pretty frustrating when you have a great game and you wanna see the build only to lose the replay








+REP for uploading









I think your biggest mistake in this game was not putting much pressure after the first attack since I just probed up, lol, expanded and started massing units for an attack. I gotta say though, I thought it was funny that when I scouted your base with my phenoixes, I went around to your SCVs and used the graviton beam to lift them up to stop them from building a depot, etc.... I think I stopped 4-5 in total in the same area









I'll upload this replay to sc2replayed. It'll show up APM, units used, basically details about matchup


----------



## banded1

yeaa, i was playing pretty bad that day lol

i messed up all kinda of stuff that game


----------



## Sainesk

when should you expand to get more hatcheries with zerg? just wondering since i'm playing cooperative/alone against the AI and I feel like i'm super slow, probably stay on 1 base for too long...


----------



## xserpint

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


when should you expand to get more hatcheries with zerg? just wondering since i'm playing cooperative/alone against the AI and I feel like i'm super slow, probably stay on 1 base for too long...


Against the AI, I will expand right after the first push it does. That will give you about 3-4 minutes before they return. You can also push back while you expand and buy more time to drone up.


----------



## rhed5

Started to ladder. Have no clue how I'm going to break 2000+ when I'm at 1200 and already matching up against 2000+ players with mixed results.

I think I lost every game I was protoss and won every time I was zerg so far. Might choose a race if I hit a ceiling.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Mutas won't stick around? Isn't that a good thing? You were complaining about muta harass being a problem, so if you scare away the mutas then there's no more problem, right? And I don't think anybody is saying vikings are great without supporting units. If you use vikings in conjunction with marines, turrets, ravens, or thors, then they are very powerful in controlling big chunks of airspace with their 9 range.


You miss my point. They won't stick around for the PDD, and they will just fly right to another spot of your base / bases. Never enough PDD / turrets / Marines / Vikings. Been there done that. You guys can theory craft all you want but I actually play this game a ton.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Started to ladder. Have no clue how I'm going to break 2000+ when I'm at 1200 and already matching up against 2000+ players with mixed results.

I think I lost every game I was protoss and won every time I was zerg so far. Might choose a race if I hit a ceiling.


Best to pick a race if you want to get good. Random is all fine and dandy but you will be clueless in certain situations for a very long time.

GSL :

No more Zergs

Over 100 bonus pool points.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You miss my point. They won't stick around for the PDD, and they will just fly right to another spot of your base / bases. Never enough PDD / turrets / Marines / Vikings. Been there done that. You guys can theory craft all you want but * I actually play this game a ton*.


I'll give you that one









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Best to pick a race if you want to get good. Random is all fine and dandy but you will be clueless in certain situations for a very long time.

GSL :

No more Zergs


While picking a race is fine and dandy as well, the problem remains that you get to miss out on the units, abilities, etc.... of the other races. I understand that by having one race, you can concentrate completely on it to become a much better player and I agree that it makes sense, but since we aren't competing competitively, I think going random, learning all the different races would be a better idea if you don't mind putting in the effort to learn all of them. Far as I recall, IMKymar(sp?) was a random player in the GSL, so, it can be done. I think my main reason for wanting to go random as well was because playing Z was great and all and I wasn't having much trouble winning games against T and P in my league, but, needed a change from the usual slings, roaches, mutas, etc....









BTW, thanks for the spoiler. I have yet to watch the RO16, although I started, but, I'm even more interested now







Did I mention that my bonus pool is ~1200?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While picking a race is fine and dandy as well, the problem remains that you get to miss out on the units, abilities, etc.... of the other races. I understand that by having one race, you can concentrate completely on it to become a much better player and I agree that it makes sense, but since we aren't competing competitively, I think going random, learning all the different races would be a better idea if you don't mind putting in the effort to learn all of them. Far as I recall, IMKymar(sp?) was a random player in the GSL, so, it can be done. I think my main reason for wanting to go random as well was because playing Z was great and all and I wasn't having much trouble winning games against T and P in my league, but, needed a change from the usual slings, roaches, mutas, etc....









BTW, thanks for the spoiler. I have yet to watch the RO16, although I started, but, I'm even more interested now







Did I mention that my bonus pool is ~1200?










If you watch his random in the GSL you'll know why you should not go random! lol. He got worked and obviously had tons of blatantly obvious holes in his game. I was a SC1 random player because back then I didn't know any better. I now wonder how much better I would have been sticking to one race.

If you play for pure fun and winning as much as possible isn't part of that fun knock yourself out.

I wish I had 1200 Bonus pool @ 2000 score.


----------



## rhed5

But then how will I get the 1000 Random wins achivement portrait? lol

I've got like 1000+ bonus points, will play like a madman and try to get about 100 points a day from now until 2000 or something.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you watch his random in the GSL you'll know why you should not go random! lol. He got worked and obviously had tons of blatantly obvious holes in his game. I was a SC1 random player because back then I didn't know any better. I now wonder how much better I would have been sticking to one race.

*If you play for pure fun and winning as much as possible isn't part of that fun knock yourself out.*

I wish I had 1200 Bonus pool @ 2000 score.


lol, I watched his game a while back. My point was that he was able to make it into the GSL playing random, so, it means something. Obviously, he didn't win, but, that wasn't the point. Yes, I know, if you go to the GSL, you obviously want to win, but, not everything always goes in your favour and losses must be accepted
















@ bolded. Winning is always part of it, but, I also try to enjoy my matches. Even when I'm losing as P or T, I'm experimeting around with the race trying to see what I can come up with and enjoying the game. I've tried thor drops, do banshee harass, almost tried hellion harass(attacked before I could move to his base). I have yet to use ravens, more vikings, bcs, mass thors, etc....







Of course, winning those games as well is great.

Problem is winning as Z is good and all and was moving me up the ladder(around 700 points now), it's becoming less satisfying now because MM is taken out by slings+blings and I've played enough T games that I've seen a lot of different strats. P is a bit harder because stalkers still do well against roaches and immortals are crazy good against them as well, but, that's why I got mutas, etc.... Point is winning is great and all as Z, but, there doesn't seem to a challenge and there are only 3 possible matches. On the other hand, going random will always spice things up since there are 9 different matches







Also, don't forget what you mentioned, if I get good at TvsT, it says something about me









Anyways, I'm still experiementing around with P and T and have a better idea than when I started. I think I got some of my start as a T mapped out, P isn't too bad either. Just gotta start deciding strat that I'm planning to use with each race before starting the match because I usually change techs within a game with T or P and obviously I'll lose resources to that


----------



## Mwarren

Whats the overclock ptr channel?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


But then how will I get the 1000 Random wins achivement portrait? lol

I've got like 1000+ bonus points, will play like a madman and try to get about 100 points a day from now until 2000 or something.


lol, good point, forgot about that one, would be nice to get some of those P portraits, lol. You also have >1000? I was under the impression that I was the only one with such high bonus points









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Whats the overclock ptr channel?


I think it's just overclock.net for the name. If you mean about accessing it, you need to go to the ptr(open starcraft2test.exe or whatever its called, same directory as starcraft2.exe) and there is a channel button near the time so add channel -> overclock.net


----------



## DoomDash

2000 will be quite easy for you IMO ( rhed ). You have enough points / bonus pool to just play a ton and do it.

Just noticed in the PTR that if you alt tab a message is sent to you that SCII flashes in your task bar.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


2000 will be quite easy for you IMO ( rhed ). You have enough points / bonus pool to just play a ton and do it.

Just noticed in the PTR that if you alt tab a message is sent to you that SCII flashes in your task bar.


Interesting, I dislike how they removed the ability to hold down the hotkey and be able to make units as in press s to select larvae and hold z for zerglings. Now you can have to keep on pressing z for every larvae you have, just more annoying is all


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Point is winning is great and all as Z, but, there doesn't seem to a challenge


You're still in Silver though, there a plenty of challenges...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You're still in Silver though, there a plenty of challenges...


lol, maybe I should've rephrased it better. There isn't many challenges in my Silver league, so, learning the other races now is the perfect time, because, let's be honest, if I try to learn T or P if I'm in Plat or higher, I'll likely get stomped and be depromoted to Gold/Silver. Of course, this considers that I make it to Plat in the first place









BTW, do you still play SC2? Haven't seen you on in ages, we should get a game going sometime


----------



## DoomDash

He plays WoW.

Blinker has some really good PvT builds :O.

BigFan will you just try and get out a silver already damn.







All I hear is excuses







.


----------



## yks

I am concentrating on WOW for now since Cata comes out in 12 hours.

I play team games every now and then with Guildies, but they aren't that great =[

But once Cata settles down, I'll be back full force! I might need DoomDash to kick my ass a few times for me to wipe the rust off.


----------



## rhed5

if you want to get out desperately, i'm pretty sure you can 6 pool your way out of silver into platinum


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
if you want to get out desperately, i'm pretty sure you can 6 pool your way out of silver into platinum

That doesn't work anymore. You probably wouldn't even be able to get out of bronze 6 pooling.


----------



## Nevaziah

what is Ptr?


----------



## yks

Public Test Realm.

Where you go to test out the new patch before it goes live.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=174727

aweeee. i feel bad for Rain. damn haters. Why do you have to apologize for winning.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=174727

aweeee. i feel bad for Rain. damn haters. Why do you have to apologize for winning.

I just hope Blizzard looks at the real problem with the match up instead of thinking of it as simplistic as some of these idiots. Some say Marine scv rushes are just too powerful early... yeah that's not the problem... the problem is everyone wants to avoid the mid-late game macro games with Zerg because it's terrible.


----------



## DoomDash

My 580 GTX was sent out today







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He plays WoW.

Blinker has some really good PvT builds :O.

BigFan will you just try and get out a silver already damn.







*All I hear is excuses







*.


I had no clue he plays WoW, makes sense why he's never on







I'll try but it ain't no excuse







I'm barely laddering now, some days I don't even play SC2, because I'm busy or tired, so, I get a bit rusty, although, even you have to admit that trying to learn T and P at a higher level(Plat+) can be suicidal, literally speaking of course









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


if you want to get out desperately, i'm pretty sure you can 6 pool your way out of silver into platinum


Well, I'm not exactly desperate atm, but, if I was to ever 6 pool, I'll try it once in a game but only once, since, I don't like cheesy strats. I'm actually enjoying playing P or T atm and not having to expand so early in the game, lol, because, I can always delay exp till I get a bigger army.

My biggest problem is not choosing a strat to follow when the game starts. With Z, I have some idea, but, with T/P, none. I mean I can go for a 1-1-1 route for hellion harass or go for thor drops, get MMM, go for a viking attack(land in minerals, haven't tried yet), banshee harass, medivac drops, etc.... Likewise with P, there are a lot of strats. Curious, how do you guys decide on a strat? Do you do the same one every game? That would get old for me pretty fast, since, with Z, I start with the 15 exp 14 pool and then vary it from there, so, it's rarely the same every game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just hope Blizzard looks at the real problem with the match up instead of thinking of it as simplistic as some of these idiots. Some say Marine scv rushes are just too powerful early... yeah that's not the problem... the problem is everyone wants to avoid the mid-late game macro games with Zerg because it's terrible.


The thing is, while they aren't OP in the sense of OP, they actually are if you look at the big pictures. Look at it this way, zerglings which are the main backbone of the Z army are melee. Using SCV to protect the marines means that the marines are untouched by the zlings and can lay out their dps, kinda like the idea with MMT or SSC where the tanks or colossi are protected by marines/marauders and stalkers/sentries and do their full dps. Since T have mules, you can keep on dropping them while having all your SCV engaging, so, eco-wise, you are able to easily keep up and surpass a Z's eco. That first game of Foxer vs. Nestea in GSL 2 is a great example of this.

Anyways, I am *NOT NOT*saying that they should nerf marines or anything like that. I'm just saying that this strat is pretty strong against Z early on especially if you have the micro because you can keep on producing marines(due to mules) while forming kind of a shield against any zlings then slowly advance into the main taking out drones left and right until they GG. I have yet to try it, but, I'm definitely trying it when I get more T experience


----------



## ThumperSD

Well Jinro did show that you can indeed beat Zerg in the late game if you open up with some small harass and power up in the process. Korean Terrans have a different mentality though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I had no clue he plays WoW, makes sense why he's never on







I'll try but it ain't no excuse







I'm barely laddering now, some days I don't even play SC2, because I'm busy or tired, so, I get a bit rusty, although, even you have to admit that trying to learn T and P at a higher level(Plat+) can be suicidal, literally speaking of course









Well, I'm not exactly desperate atm, but, if I was to ever 6 pool, I'll try it once in a game but only once, since, I don't like cheesy strats. I'm actually enjoying playing P or T atm and not having to expand so early in the game, lol, because, I can always delay exp till I get a bigger army.

My biggest problem is not choosing a strat to follow when the game starts. With Z, I have some idea, but, with T/P, none. I mean I can go for a 1-1-1 route for hellion harass or go for thor drops, get MMM, go for a viking attack(land in minerals, haven't tried yet), banshee harass, medivac drops, etc.... Likewise with P, there are a lot of strats. Curious, how do you guys decide on a strat? Do you do the same one every game? That would get old for me pretty fast, since, with Z, I start with the 15 exp 14 pool and then vary it from there, so, it's rarely the same every game









The thing is, while they aren't OP in the sense of OP, they actually are if you look at the big pictures. Look at it this way, zerglings which are the main backbone of the Z army are melee. Using SCV to protect the marines means that the marines are untouched by the zlings and can lay out their dps, kinda like the idea with MMT or SSC where the tanks or colossi are protected by marines/marauders and stalkers/sentries and do their full dps. Since T have mules, you can keep on dropping them while having all your SCV engaging, so, eco-wise, you are able to easily keep up and surpass a Z's eco. That first game of Foxer vs. Nestea in GSL 2 is a great example of this.

Anyways, I am *NOT NOT*saying that they should nerf marines or anything like that. I'm just saying that this strat is pretty strong against Z early on especially if you have the micro because you can keep on producing marines(due to mules) while forming kind of a shield against any zlings then slowly advance into the main taking out drones left and right until they GG. I have yet to try it, but, I'm definitely trying it when I get more T experience










I don't even mind if they nerf marines as long as they look at the game being messed up later as well. I don't think marines are exactly OP or anything ( Neither do the state of the game Z players ), but if it does become a problem even with the late game being balanced better then go for it nerf them. I have never for a second been against Terran nerfs as long as they are adjusting the entire game to account for it. All I was saying is that I hope they are looking at the big picture as to WHY everyone is marine rushing. I don't think Marine rushing is something a pro players wants to depend on.. yet it seems like they always do it now days. Has to be a reason for it ( late game ).

As for your comments on your laddering. You say you don't want your T or P to be crushed in Platinum or something... but then you practice your Z vs pretty high rated Diamond players.. isn't that the same thing?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Well Jinro did show that you can indeed beat Zerg in the late game if you open up with some small harass and power up in the process. Korean Terrans have a different mentality though.


Against a WCIII player. That's really not saying much IMO ( also **** maps for Z ). I wanted to see Jinro vs FruitDealer or NesTea but that won't happen now .

*EDIT*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Blinker has some really good PvT builds :O.


That deserves some love. You Protoss players should try his build I really really enjoyed it.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just hope Blizzard looks at the real problem with the match up instead of thinking of it as simplistic as some of these idiots. Some say Marine scv rushes are just too powerful early... yeah that's not the problem... the problem is everyone wants to avoid the mid-late game macro games with Zerg because it's terrible.


To prove his point, I just won a game vs an *1800 diamond player* as Zerg. I kept harrassing his mineral lines but he didtn over reach so the ONLY out I could see was to starve him out and deny expos while i take over every expo I could. TWICE he almost killed me.... Thank god for banelings....Bigfan, thanks to you aswell for drilling in the point on their awesomeness

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

Take a look and give me pointers.

Also, here is another match wehre I did the SAME thing as protoss vs a Zerg player...

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands


----------



## DoomDash

I kept telling BigFan banelings were sick







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nevaziah* 
To prove his point, I just won a game vs an *1800 diamond player* as Zerg. I kept harrassing his mineral lines but he didtn over reach so the ONLY out I could see was to starve him out and deny expos while i take over every expo I could. TWICE he almost killed me.... Thank god for banelings....Bigfan, thanks to you aswell for drilling in the point on their awesomeness

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

Take a look and give me pointers.

Also, here is another match wehre I did the SAME thing as protoss vs a Zerg player...

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands

Watched the ZvT replay.

Terran sucked. Should have 3 based at some point jeeze. Also poor macro while he was attacking.

You probably could have got away with your fast expo with enough lings. If you. If you wanted to feel safe though then it's fine. Either way you eneded up with a ton of money when he contained you, which you should have spent on a macro hatch much much sooner.

I did like that you took two bases after breaking.

You could work on your magic boxing with muta's... messed it up a little.

Creep spreading needs lots of work. Banelings / slings are even more sick on creep.

You could have harassed even more with the muta's... picking off reactors, tech labs, depots... anywhere that is not covered. Constantly come back and look.

You could have killed him earlier than you did, but that's not really important.

*EDIT* going to play on PTR now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't even mind if they nerf marines as long as they look at the game being messed up later as well. I don't think marines are exactly OP or anything ( Neither do the state of the game Z players ), but if it does become a problem even with the late game being balanced better then go for it nerf them. I have never for a second been against Terran nerfs as long as they are adjusting the entire game to account for it. All I was saying is that I hope they are looking at the big picture as to WHY everyone is marine rushing. I don't think Marine rushing is something a pro players wants to depend on.. yet it seems like they always do it now days. Has to be a reason for it ( late game ).

As for your comments on your laddering. You say you don't want your T or P to be crushed in Platinum or something... but then you practice your Z vs pretty high rated Diamond players.. isn't that the same thing?


Agree for first paragraph, nerf and buff whatever to fix the game for the better. As for the crushing thing, well, true, I am getting crushed, but, you forget one important thing, there are points on the line in the ladder which isn't when you play customs. While I try my hardest in customs, I think if there were points I would better because I have something to lose









^^ Will be on PTR in T-30min, hope you're still on then. I'll visit the overclock.net channel there


----------



## ThumperSD

True but Moon is still really good and Jinro beat him pretty easily. Any player in the top 32 is really good.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


To prove his point, I just won a game vs an *1800 diamond player* as Zerg. I kept harrassing his mineral lines but he didtn over reach so the ONLY out I could see was to starve him out and deny expos while i take over every expo I could. TWICE he almost killed me.... Thank god for banelings....Bigfan, thanks to you aswell for drilling in the point on their awesomeness


np, Neva, anytime








They are indeed awesome units especially against T when they mass marines or just go MMM









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

Take a look and give me pointers.

Also, here is another match wehre I did the SAME thing as protoss vs a Zerg player...

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands


Haven't looked, but, one thing I can mention is that I find against P, they aren't as useful as T because P have shields which makes their total hp much higher. Marines are 55 hp with combat shields, 2 banes taken one down, not including any nearby marines. A zealot has I thin 120 with shields or so. That's about 4 banes, not including other zealots. Then stalkers aren't light like marauders and can outrun them(I think), they obviously outrange them and blink means that you can easily sacrifice one of them to take out several banes(think 7 or so for one), so, it's less efficient







As for denying expos, definitely a good way to win but takes a long time









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I kept telling BigFan banelings were sick







.


lol, you make it sound like I said they were horrible. Originally, against T, never used them but then started adding them and lo and behold, MMM is a snap to take down







Makes life that much easier, of course, adding a thor into the mix to absorb the banes attack increases the chances of your marines surviving as well as spacing your units and adding more marauders due to absorbing more bane hits


----------



## DoomDash

Banes are always good cause Terran has to have MM.


----------



## yks

Show me some of blinkers builds


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Show me some of blinkers builds


Blinker should share because I would have to re-watch them all and he could probably explain better than me.

Check this out. 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1306100875

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bashiok*

We would like to thank everyone for their participation thus far in the first StarCraft 2 public test. We're in the process of temporarily taking down the PTR in order to apply changes based on your feedback and testing.

Some of the changes we're working on implementing:
[li]Bunker build time reduction removed as previously noted[/li]
[li]Fungal Growth's terrestrial limitation has been removed and the ability once again affects air units[/li]
[li]It will once again be possible to hold down a key to repeat a hotkey command[/li]

This down time is expected to start tomorrow at noon, 12:01 p.m. PST and last for approximately 2-3 days. Keep an eye on this forum for updates on when you can rejoin the Public Test Region and begin testing the newest changes.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## ThumperSD

Im glad Blizzard addressed those zerg problems. I never even knew you could hold down a button and keep spawning that unit. I always pressed Z every time I wanted a zergling XD.


----------



## DoomDash

I knew about it but never did it. I didn't know you could do it with forcefield though.


----------



## ThumperSD

I didnt know you could do it with FF either. IDK if it's any more efficient so im not going to change the way I play.

I wish GSL was on earlier


----------



## yks

Hopefully they fix the PTR for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Hopefully they fix the PTR for me.


Like you'd play anyway, traitor!


----------



## yks

Gotta practice binding the F-keys. ;]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Blinker should share because I would have to re-watch them all and he could probably explain better than me.

Check this out. 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1306100875


Glad they addressed those issues, however, PTR is garbage. The interface looks less clean, trying to create a custom game, basically opening the map interface to choose one is very slow and there seems to be other problems as well. I just played 5-6 games. Last 2 games, TvsT, shakuras plateau, got dropped as I attacked and we were both on 2 bases







Last game against a Z on lost temple, does a bane bust, I manage to survive using hellions kiting his slings+some marines with medivacs and then it starts to lag and my computer freezes







I had to restart because every alt+ctrl+del wasn't working.

One of you guys, get on, let's get some more games going. Already had some PvsP games, wraping in dts using wrap prisms are awesome, same with taking half a base out and 20 probes with them, lol. Nice to know that even if I lose, no points lost, means I get to have some fun and practice









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Im glad Blizzard addressed those zerg problems. I never even knew you could hold down a button and keep spawning that unit. I always pressed Z every time I wanted a zergling XD.


I always knew about it, was great to use as well, instead of now pressing Z for every zerglings, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Like you'd play anyway, traitor!


lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Gotta practice binding the F-keys. ;]


of course you want to practice /sarcasm


----------



## DoomDash

There is a reason its a test server







. I haven't had many problems with it though.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think we've all seen some epic TvPs. The 4 part on HD starcraft with carriers vs bcs, and the other 4 part TvP with archon ht vs mmmg tank ball are great examples. However, I don't I've ever seen something as epic as this game:

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Why did he go missile turrets?

It was hard to watch storm slaughter everything like that. Holy crap that was cool though.


----------



## DoomDash

I think this game is my favorite game of all time so far:

http://www.vidsurf.net/watch/r_-YvZQ..._quadrant.html


----------



## DoomDash

Watching GSL, but my friend needs a stream to watch besides the Gom player ( cant find on TL ).


----------



## esproductions

Go MC!


----------



## DoomDash

Go MarineKing!

and Jinro! Die dirty protoss! ( but not before zerg! )


----------



## DoomDash

Feed backed all of his ghosts , feedbacked his medivacs killing them, and went in and stormed everything to death haha.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL:

JINRO MOVES ON !!!!!! Protoss forgets Thermal lance game 5!!!!!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Im glad Blizzard addressed those zerg problems. I never even knew you could hold down a button and keep spawning that unit. I always pressed Z every time I wanted a zergling XD.


I never knew that either. I've always hammered the Z button like a machine gun.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


There is a reason its a test server







. I haven't had many problems with it though.


lol, I know, but, even then, the watching replay box for example is smaller and feels more clutered. Those league icons look less nicer. Clicking some buttons(create customs) take some time to load. My point is, as much as code as they would've changed, it should've have bogged down the performace that much









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


GSL:

JINRO MOVES ON !!!!!! Protoss forgets Thermal lance game 5!!!!!











Darn, forgot that quoting posts reveals the spoiler







Interesting spoiler nonetheless!









As to what they have in that list, well, it's not bad, but, that's mostly league modification. I would much prefer they made some balancing and just added the 2 new leagues, no need to change the league icons and anything associated with them









Edit: Wow, thread about Rain apologizing on TL is enormous now: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=2
I'm only on page 2 and have 38 more pages to go


----------



## Sainesk

random question (again







)

-Protoss have boost, Terran have mules that can help with economy, what's the zerg equivalent?

-if they don't have one do you think they need one?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


random question (again







)

-Protoss have boost, Terran have mules that can help with economy, what's the zerg equivalent?

-if they don't have one do you think they need one?


The zerg equivalent is spawn larvae which is an ability that the queen has to give you 4 extra larvae, every 40 seconds I think, forgot the timings


----------



## yks

Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



OMG MC. OMG JINRO.

OMG @ PVP POSSIBILITY. (which better not happen, cause PvP is boring as ****, but I'm glad there's a possiblity)

oGs-TLAF~!!!! best team-coop?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Show me some of blinkers builds


Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
That deserves some love. You Protoss players should try his build I really really enjoyed it.

Lol, thanks. I think my PvT is quite solid at the moment, but I don't have that much time to play so I haven't tested it in all kinds of scenarios.

I basically fast expand off 1 gate and 1 gas in every PvT and play very macro oriented game. It's safe enough even on steppes, but it isn't on close positions on metal. There's a huge thread about it on TL if you're interested in details.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=142887

I usually expand around 26 food, just after zealot and stalker. I also poke with it to terran's base. If there's no bunker on the ramp and if he hasn't walled in you can do a good deal of damage killing some SCV's while expanding.

As soon as I have enough minerals, usually 2 stalkers and 2 zealots, I drop down 3 gates + stargate or templar archives, depending on various things or 4 gates if I see an immediate aggression coming (e.g. 2 rax).

Against banshees you'll have a phoenix out in time to scout for them and possibly snipe some before the cloak is done. The timing is that you should have a phoenix in his base just about when the banshee is done and before the cloak is finished, unless he goes for some super fast rush without any defence. Phoenix will usually get you enough time to get observer out and/or cannons down. So it's 3 gates, stargate, robo off two bases and it bests transitions into colossi with phoenixes as meatshields against vikings.

Against thors you should get voids out instead of phoenix and, if the push doesn't come, you can use them to keep terran in base while securing the third.

If I suspect bio, especially with ghosts, I'll get templar archives and research zealot legs. I do 1 gate, templar, 2 gates usually, although in the game against doom I had some problem with gas iirc, so I went 3 gates then templar. You should have charge finished just about when the standard 3 rax push comes and a lot of zealots to defend.

This transitions nicely into high templars or dark templars to secure the third. In the game against doom I went for DT's for map control and then made carriers off 3 bases (mainly because he was saying carriers suck







), but it were really the DTs that won me the game tbh. If you decide to go this route, once you have a stargate down and before fleet bacon, it's a good idea to get some voids out to snipe the raven which will inevitably come after DTs.

I don't have much replays of it unfortunately, because I don't save them, and lately I mainly practice against zerg.

Here's a fast expo against 2 rax conc marauders all-in vs some ~1800 terran on the ladder. I even lose the pylons powering all my gates at some point.



And here are the games against doom, but you need to run them on PTR account to work.



Should be 'thor push counter' lol. FE, 3 gate stargate opening.



Here's 3 gate, templar against bio push with ghosts with transition into DTs and carriers. Quite a good game to watch.



And here's how I die to early rax aggression. I was suspecting him go banshees in this game, so I got a fast phoenix, which didn't help at all. I also messed up my macro at some point, so if played better it could still be viable.

The main thing is that I don't rely on sentries early game and instead focus on stalker/zealot army. To make it viable you should keep your stalkers alive and only engage when you have zealots or probes in front of them. If your zealots die, you should back off with the stalkers until you can warp in another round of zealots or use probes if you have to. I also get robo kind of late in most games, which is quite risky, but I don't see banshee rushes very often.


----------



## ThumperSD

I'll check out your PvT replays when I get a chance

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, I know, but, even then, the watching replay box for example is smaller and feels more clutered. Those league icons look less nicer. Clicking some buttons(create customs) take some time to load. My point is, as much as code as they would've changed, it should've have bogged down the performace that much









Darn, forgot that quoting posts reveals the spoiler







Interesting spoiler nonetheless!









As to what they have in that list, well, it's not bad, but, that's mostly league modification. I would much prefer they made some balancing and just added the 2 new leagues, no need to change the league icons and anything associated with them









Edit: Wow, thread about Rain apologizing on TL is enormous now: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=2
I'm only on page 2 and have 38 more pages to go









Agreed about the icons. The new icons look pretty hideous compared to the original ones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
random question (again







)

-Protoss have boost, Terran have mules that can help with economy, what's the zerg equivalent?

-if they don't have one do you think they need one?

Zerg equivalent is being able to spawn extra larvae and with that spawn extra drones


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
-snip-

Thanks for the replays+BO. Should help a bit since I'm playing P ATM. My main concern with this is that if they have a strong timing push as you exp, they can focus fire your zealots, take out your probes as your stalkers escape to the main. They'll likely keeping adding in units, most likely marauders due to being able to kite zealots and being pretty effective against stalkers. Why not add sentries into the mix? 1-2 with some good ffs and GS would really help out in maps with small chokes


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Thanks for the replays+BO. Should help a bit since I'm playing P ATM. My main concern with this is that if they have a strong timing push as you exp, they can focus fire your zealots, take out your probes as your stalkers escape to the main. They'll likely keeping adding in units, most likely marauders due to being able to kite zealots and being pretty effective against stalkers. Why not add sentries into the mix? 1-2 with some good ffs and GS would really help out in maps with small chokes









Have you switched completely or just trying another race?

Main reason I don't get sentries is because I'm running off one gas for quite a while to afford the expo. Once I have 3-4 gas and WG tech running I may add some sentries, but generally I still prefer to spend the gas on some tech.

I'm not sure if you mean focus firing zealots or stalkers? Zealots pretty much are there to die anyway while stalkers do damage. If terran kites zealots he'll still get hit by stalkers and zealots can tank quite a bit. If he target fires stalkers he'll die from zealots. I think it all happens in the first game I posted.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Have you switched completely or just trying another race?

Main reason I don't get sentries is because I'm running off one gas for quite a while to afford the expo. Once I have 3-4 gas and WG tech running I may add some sentries, but generally I still prefer to spend the gas on some tech.

I'm not sure if you mean focus firing zealots or stalkers? Zealots pretty much are there to die anyway while stalkers do damage. If terran kites zealots he'll still get hit by stalkers and zealots can tank quite a bit. If he target fires stalkers he'll die from zealots. I think it all happens in the first game I posted.

My life for the Swarm! lol. I've been learning to play P and T because I'm going to go random soon enough. Z will always be my favourite because of the swarming, but, I can't deny how much I love the different T and P units, especially units such as the marines, sentries, etc.... I've had more than enough experience with Z, so, once I get the P/T experience especially against Z, then I'm changing to random.

Since the PTR doesn't affect my points/rating, I've been playing a lot of games the last 2 days, I think 13 games total including 2 with doom. It's also nice to spice things up as well. I think I've somewhat found my P opening, pretty close with T. It's expanding as T/P that I'm having trouble with, since, I don't have a certain supply in mind. I try when I can do it and my opponent is less likely to expand. Against doom yesterday, he attacked right after my expo finished(was coincidence I believe though) and I didn't have colossi or enough units to counter his large MM. I think if I had another immortal or two and some more ffs would've helped a lot









/rant









True, forgot about the one gas thing, makes sense. Better to get stalkers then, since, sentries cost a ton of gas. I understand the zealots being meat shields, although, its kinda funny since they do more damage than stalkers((8x2 standard) compared to 11(or 15 for armored)). I think once you get charge, they are awesome though and with ff, can easily dispatch of MMM among other things









Doom was telling me how well you played last night, we should get a game going sometime. Would be interesting to see this 1 gate FE used correctly since I'll likely mess it up the first couple of times I do it


----------



## thiru

Is the PTR still on? read a thread saying it was on hold for 2-3 days.

edit: ok lol I played a team game with a friend and within the first 30 seconds we got the "battle.net is shutting down in 5 minutes" message







and we continued playing but we couldn't wipe out the opposing team fast enough. We all got disconnected but somehow we won xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Is the PTR still on? read a thread saying it was on hold for 2-3 days.


It's on hold for 2-3 days while they add FG back to affecting air units, increase bunker build time and remodify the key issue back to being able to hold it down. Can you imagine having 5 hatcheries with 7 larvae each and having to rebuild your army since your previous was slaughtered? We're talking about 35 presses







I could forsee broken keyboard and CTS in the near future if they kept it









^^lol, that's too funny. They said that it's 12:00 PST, thought this would've been hours ago though and its not in EU yet, as in PTR is only in US atm. How is it possible you played a team game then? Huggle account?


----------



## thiru

I edited my post. I got to play the last 5 minutes of the PTR


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I edited my post. I got to play the last 5 minutes of the PTR










yes, but, they don't have PTR for people with EU/KR, etc... accounts, only US ones?


----------



## thiru

Yeah I was playing on huggle.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah I was playing on huggle.


oh, ok, makes sense. Still seems really late though, had I known, I would've done several more


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Doom was telling me how well you played last night, we should get a game going sometime. Would be interesting to see this 1 gate FE used correctly since I'll likely mess it up the first couple of times I do it










I don't do this against zerg unless you want to play PvT. I don't have time to play more than 2-3 games a day at the moment, but I can give you a shout next time I'm on NA.


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks for posting poroboszcz.

and look who decided to show up ( Thiru ).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


fleet bacon


Where do I get my fleet bacon? Sounds yummy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't do this against zerg unless you want to play PvT. I don't have time to play more than 2-3 games a day at the moment, but I can give you a shout next time I'm on NA.


I don't mind playing any race







Do give me a shout next time your on so we can get a game going


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thanks for posting poroboszcz.

and look who decided to show up ( Thiru ).

Where do I get my fleet bacon? *Sounds yummy*.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175013


----------



## thiru

Omg.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175013










I really need to try it now, can you imagine the look on my opponent's face if I can get past the zealots with mass slings right into his mineral line


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175013


Imo it is the same as the Colossus going underground trick. Which is basically the same as cheating. Although I doubt Blizzard will see it that way unless the person doing it admits to it in chat







.


----------



## DoomDash

I was thinking, Improving Terran late game idea:

Tanks +8 damage per upgrade level ( vs armored )?


----------



## thiru

Or Mule drops do splash damage!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I was thinking, Improving Terran late game idea:

Tanks +8 damage per upgrade level ( vs armored )?


Sorry to douse your flame, but, doubt they'll be changing tanks any time soon. Maybe in the near future when they start to look at T's late game but ATM, they are too busy with b.net overhaul and the latest patch









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Or Mule drops do splash damage!


lol, that would be OP! Imagine this scenario:
OMG, my opponent has a big attack force and my army has been crushed, what do I do? Oh, that's right, I forgot to drop mules from my two OC and my energy has pooled to max. I'll just drop mules -> click mule button 8x and drop throughout his army. Army defeated!
Opponent: "What the???" :/


----------



## DoomDash

I wrote a little more information on the tank idea:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1305773012#1

Probably will get flamed but w/e,.


----------



## thiru

Your thread is going to be derailed by marauder nerf talk.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175013


This has happened to me before. I thought my zealot was in a bad position. Blizzard will fix this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Your thread is going to be derailed by marauder nerf talk.


I dont think marauders are all that OP any more but concussive shells is. Only change I think it needs is to increase the cost and research time. I can use probes to help me defend against an early marauder push. Marines in large numbers is much more potent. If they buff tanks however then marauders do need to be nerfed directly.


----------



## DoomDash

I will trade Marauders for Tanks anyday.


----------



## ThumperSD

Id trade the mothership for arbiters any day =(


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wrote a little more information on the tank idea:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1305773012#1

Probably will get flamed but w/e,.


If you want, I can say I support you, kind give some backing to your idea since tanks are supposed to be pretty powerful anyways and nerfing the marauder will make it easier for P to handle early game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Id trade the mothership for arbiters any day =(


Mothership > arbiter, but, # of arbiters > mothership. Essentially, what I'm trying to say is that a mothership is better than one arbiter, since, it has similar abilities, but, better attacks/hp, however, the fact that you can have several arbiters and only one mothership makes it weak









Anyone up for a game?


----------



## DoomDash

Only support me if you think its logical.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Only support me if you think its logical.


lol, let's be honest, I would love tanks to do 70 damage instead of the 50 now. I did support you with the idea though, but, I added in a bc idea as well. My only concern is how will this change the mid game because that's when tanks are used mostly


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Only support me if you think its logical.


I think your tank change, coupled with a nerf to marauders, could fix the game.


----------



## DoomDash

It's only +3 more per level. I know it adds up but I don't think its as huge as people will think. Remember in previous patches tanks did straight 60 damage to *everything* out of the box, and 75 max damage with upgrades, 1 more than I am suggesting.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


I think your tank change, coupled with a nerf to marauders, could fix the game.


Why thanks! If you do support my thread on battle.net. Like it, comment, whatever.


----------



## Twistacles

Done. I know i'm only 1750 right now but I haven't really been able to play for a while, I have like 400 bonus pool =/


----------



## DoomDash

400 so much. I'm at 110+ now. Friday I can finally blow it all with my 580 yayayayayyay!


----------



## BigFan

Someone get on, let's get a game going!


----------



## thiru

I'm on. Need practice so much, haven't played in a month or something.


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody know where the replays for the PTR is saved? I cant find it in the usual directory. There is a replay I need to watch.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Mothership > arbiter, but, # of arbiters > mothership. Essentially, what I'm trying to say is that a mothership is better than one arbiter, since, it has similar abilities, but, better attacks/hp, however, the fact that you can have several arbiters and only one mothership makes it weak









Anyone up for a game?










Yea it beats the arbiter 1 on 1 but costs more, takes longer to make, moves slower, only limited to having one at a time. I can use arbiters for earlier harass with a smaller group of units and I guarantee it will be more useful. I really miss the statis field though. That was an awesome spell.

You cant harass nearly as efficient with the mothership. It works best to support your maxed out army.


----------



## thiru

That was fun bigfan, especially the numerous failed drops xD
Too bad the connection was so crappy though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


That was fun bigfan, especially the numerous failed drops xD
Too bad the connection was so crappy though.


Sorry about just leaving, game froze and by the time I went back in, you weren't there. Do you think you can upload that last replay? I lost it due to the game freezing









Thanks for the games though. I agree, definitely fun. Connection was bad in that last one, so, it was harder to execute the drops I had in mind :/ but at least the first two were good







I did like your failed drops though, very easy to take care of, lol especially when prisms move on their own







BTW, thanks for feedback 4 of my medivacs and killing around 30 of my valuable units :/ lol

If only I had cloak towards the end and was able to get to your base in that last one, I would've nuked your main across the board







Something to keep in mind next time I play against you, go heavy on nukes!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Anybody know where the replays for the PTR is saved? I cant find it in the usual directory. There is a replay I need to watch.

Yea it beats the arbiter 1 on 1 but costs more, takes longer to make, moves slower, only limited to having one at a time. I can use arbiters for earlier harass with a smaller group of units and I guarantee it will be more useful. I really miss the statis field though. That was an awesome spell.

You cant harass nearly as efficient with the mothership. It works best to support your maxed out army.


I liked statis field as well, maybe it'll be in the expansions, we'll have to wait and see what units and what they have in mind







As to the mothership, well, someone on the sc2 boards talked about how he uses it. Simply put, attack one of his exp, while moving mothership to another, mass recall into other exp when he arrives at first, or just mass recall into base. Army not in your favour? Easy, just vortex, take out half then deal with the rest or vortex and retreat. I'm sure they are other idea floating around, although, as I recall it the arbiter had the same abilities, albeit to a lesser extent


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sorry about just leaving, game froze and by the time I went back in, you weren't there. Do you think you can upload that last replay? I lost it due to the game freezing









Thanks for the games though. I agree, definitely fun. Connection was bad in that last one, so, it was harder to execute the drops I had in mind :/ but at least the first two were good







I did like your failed drops though, very easy to take care of, lol especially when prisms move on their own







BTW, thanks for feedback 4 of my medivacs and killing around 30 of my valuable units :/ lol

If only I had cloak towards the end and was able to get to your base in that last one, I would've nuked your main across the board







Something to keep in mind next time I play against you, go heavy on nukes!


lol yeah my shuttles kept suiciding into your turrets. One of them even had 2 high templars in it or something.

Your drops didn't worry me too much because I was on 4 bases while you were on 2









Here's the replay. Not sure what you can learn from it lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


lol yeah my shuttles kept suiciding into your turrets. One of them even had 2 high templars in it or something.

Your drops didn't worry me too much because I was on 4 bases while you were on 2









Here's the replay. Not sure what you can learn from it lol


lol, thanks for replay. What can I say? They are attracted to my turrets







Thinking back to the game, had I started making bc's a bit sooner, I might've been able to actually defend that push and strike. Having 10k/4k would've meant I had more than enough to make 10 bcs with yamato cannons and upgrades. Would've yamato your immortals, then your templars can't do much damage with feedback resulting in my MMT with stim completely decimating your stalkers+sentries(I think I saw some)+HTs attack force









I also assumed you had a gold because I saw a probe with some gold minerals, lol. As to the 4th base, not sure where it was, but, I took out a lot of your probes at your exp near your base, so, that probably set you back a bit at the start, *possibly* giving me some eco advantage(not positive though). I actually wanted to attack with MMTG, but, with the lag, I couldn't risk moving the tanks because I would've had a hard time seiging up in time of the encounter if we got a lag spike which we were getting throughout. Also, those immortals would've 3 shot my tanks to oblivion, but, that's why we have ghosts







We'll have a rematch someday and I'll take it!









+REP for replay. As to what to learn, well, I enjoy seeing what my opponent is doing while I'm making units, etc.... It basically gives me insight into what an opponent might do. Nice use of the HTs though, very impressive. Those things if used right can really change the course of a game especially against a Z who goes heavy mutas or MM


----------



## thiru

I had a dozen warpgates ready and probably loads of chronoboosts and was sitting on 15k resources and still mining from 4 bases. Pretty sure there was nothing you could do on 2 bases to wipe me out


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I had a dozen warpgates ready and probably loads of chronoboosts and was sitting on 15k resources and still mining from 4 bases. Pretty sure there was nothing you could do on 2 bases to wipe me out










I don't know, just ask banded what 10 bcs can do. I played a TvsT against him. I turtled since I was under pressure early on. I was only on two exp (one a secret) then took a third near my base after both exp were mined out from minerals+ 2 gas(for one only). I blocked my choke with tanks and decided to make some bcs. I took out 2 of his exps and was going for his main.

BCs are pretty powerful especially in large groups and when upgraded. 30DPS, 3 armor without upgrades, yamato cannon to take out pylon, etc.... As in, had I won that engagement, I could've went in and sniped your pylons near your main wrapgate area(your main base) and continued to attack with marines+stim since I had 4 rax. Marines+stim in large groups are nuts. Their dps skyrockets as well to something like 18 *I think*(6x3 since attack speed is 0.33 with 6 damage). Of course, chargelots would help but you were mostly relying on stalkers+immortals so bcs are safe and marines counter immortals and stalkers(with stim here)









That's not to say I would've won, but, more of a strat I would've used to try and win the game, I'm sure I'll get to try it soon enough


----------



## DoomDash

Another game trick:

http://www.justin.tv/tpfour/b/275229914

Around 3+ minutes.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Another game trick:

http://www.justin.tv/tpfour/b/275229914

Around 3+ minutes.


I'm a middle class player and I've done that before. Didn't realize most people didn't know about that lol.


----------



## DoomDash

I just thought I'd share a couple replays ( Even if BOTH are sloppy as **** ):

I think scrap station is actually a very cool map even for T, and even in TvZ ( he could have gone muta and one way better ). Supply block myself a ton here, took 3rd too late ( ended up failing ), and shoulda have done the island maybe. The cool thing about this map is using the choke / rocks for siege tank pushing. I do this build vs Zerg all the time on scrap ( blocking ).


Second game is just a current trying to improve my macro game TvP. I supply block myself as always, and I honestly could have lost this at a few points. A month ago I would have perhaps just stayed on 2 base the entire time? Trying to get better at macro really bad:


*Disclaimer* Still on my **** PC with a different setup!

One is 2000+, other is about 2200. On my 1500 account this is all I get ( 2000+ )







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I don't know, just ask banded what 10 bcs can do. I played a TvsT against him. I turtled since I was under pressure early on. I was only on two exp (one a secret) then took a third near my base after both exp were mined out from minerals+ 2 gas(for one only). I blocked my choke with tanks and decided to make some bcs. I took out 2 of his exps and was going for his main.

BCs are pretty powerful especially in large groups and when upgraded. 30DPS, 3 armor without upgrades, yamato cannon to take out pylon, etc.... As in, had I won that engagement, I could've went in and sniped your pylons near your main wrapgate area(your main base) and continued to attack with marines+stim since I had 4 rax. Marines+stim in large groups are nuts. Their dps skyrockets as well to something like 18 *I think*(6x3 since attack speed is 0.33 with 6 damage). Of course, chargelots would help but you were mostly relying on stalkers+immortals so bcs are safe and marines counter immortals and stalkers(with stim here)









That's not to say I would've won, but, more of a strat I would've used to try and win the game, I'm sure I'll get to try it soon enough









You can't say you lost a game because you didn't have time to get your 10 battlecruisers on 2 bases when in reality you didn't have time to get even one...


----------



## DoomDash

BC's are neat.... like carriers are neat.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Another game trick:

http://www.justin.tv/tpfour/b/275229914

Around 3+ minutes.

wow mind blown.


----------



## banded1

im surprised that so many people didnt know about that trick, i thought it was kind of common knowledge lol
i saw someone use it at dreamhack too


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Another game trick:

http://www.justin.tv/tpfour/b/275229914

Around 3+ minutes.

Haven't watched that, but is it 'the lay down pylon so that your probe can go through buildings' trick?


----------



## DoomDash

Correct. I had never seen it in SCII, apparently Artosis and Tasteless haven't either.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Correct. I had never seen it in SCII, apparently Artosis and Tasteless haven't either.

Ah ok. Well I knew the probe does that... simply never thought of doing it just to get through buildings. But then I've never found the need to.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You can't say you lost a game because you didn't have time to get your 10 battlecruisers on 2 bases when in reality you didn't have time to get even one...

lol, I never said I lost because I didn't get. I lost because I didn't micro well, didn't get enough units, etc.... I mean I had 10k, I should've just made more marines and kept on pumping them out but I didn't because I soon found that I had no room in my base







As for bcs, I was merely exploring the idea of how getting some bcs might've changed the game, since, that was the route I wanted to take, albeit a bit too late









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BC's are neat.... like carriers are neat.

lol, I detect a hint of sarcasm in that considering how bad you were saying carriers are


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, I never said I lost because I didn't get. I lost because I didn't micro well, didn't get enough units, etc.... I mean I had 10k, I should've just made more marines and kept on pumping them out but I didn't because I soon found that I had no room in my base







As for bcs, I was merely exploring the idea of how getting some bcs might've changed the game, since, that was the route I wanted to take, albeit a bit too late









lol, I detect a hint of sarcasm in that considering how bad you were saying carriers are









You need more bases. And more starports. Way more starports. I think you only had one.

That reminds me of a 3000 points streamed game I saw some time ago, pvt. The terran was going mass battlecruiser on close air position on metal. At one point each player had one of the central golds, and the terran started BM'ing by flying his BCs and a command center over to the protoss's gold and saying "I NEED THIS FOR MOAR BATTLECRUISERS"

I lol'd so much at seeing that. Sorry if this doesn't seem very funny, it was at the time


----------



## DoomDash

I still scratch my head at that BC nerf ages ago. I don't think I heard a single complaint or saw a single thread on BC's being OP anywhere heh. Maybe they were, who knows... but certainly no one at the time felt that way.

That's like Blizzard randomly nerfing the Carrier next patch.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 









They are good though, especially if your opponent wasn't expecting them









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You need more bases. And more starports. Way more starports. I think you only had one.

That reminds me of a 3000 points streamed game I saw some time ago, pvt. The terran was going mass battlecruiser on close air position on metal. At one point each player had one of the central golds, and the terran started BM'ing by flying his BCs and a command center over to the protoss's gold and saying "I NEED THIS FOR MOAR BATTLECRUISERS"

I lol'd so much at seeing that. Sorry if this doesn't seem very funny, it was at the time









I actually had two, however, they had reactors on them, not tech labs, although, I would've switched with my 2 barracks to have 4 barracks+reactors(that's a TON of marines) and 2 starports+reactors. Not sure about more bases, since, I had 10k and 4k gas and it wasn't until the end of the game that I completely mined out my 2nd base







You are correct about starports though, 1-2 more would've helped the process.

Well, it sounds funny, I can imagine what it would've looked it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I still scratch my head at that BC nerf ages ago. I don't think I heard a single complaint or saw a single thread on BC's being OP anywhere heh. Maybe they were, who knows... but certainly no one at the time felt that way.

That's like Blizzard *randomly nerfing the Carrier next patch*.

Watch them do that randomly, lol. It was a 'bug' fix, they would say







BCs are rarely used but they take so much punishment that it's crazy. I haven't tested them against different unit compositions though, but, I think against 3 corruptors, you can yamato the first one from a distance and then when you engage you should be able to come out with that BC alive, likely in the red region


----------



## T1nk3rb311

After not playing almost any 1v1 and doing almost all 2v2s, I just got bumped from my silver 1v1 placement league (rank 80+) after losing 4 straight matches to difficult rushes, I won one and got bumped to rank 4 platinum. Weird.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311* 
After not playing almost any 1v1 and doing almost all 2v2s, I just got bumped from my silver 1v1 placement league (rank 80+) after losing 4 straight matches to difficult rushes, I won one and got bumped to rank 4 platinum. Weird.

You might've been due for a promotion, then you went on the hiatus and when you decided to come back to do some 1vs1 games, losing a couple followed by a win was enough to promote you


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Correct. I had never seen it in SCII, apparently Artosis and Tasteless haven't either.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
im surprised that so many people didnt know about that trick, i thought it was kind of common knowledge lol
i saw someone use it at dreamhack too


NO my mijnd was blown when the toss had the gull to just start rewalling off while 1 void ray went at it. I've been trying toss version of the 111 with 1 gate cyber into star vs zerg. I've only done it vs very hard comp but I loose every time.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol yeah my *shuttles* kept suiciding into your turrets. One of them even had 2 high templars in it or something.

Your drops didn't worry me too much because I was on 4 bases while you were on 2









Here's the replay. Not sure what you can learn from it lol

You played some sc1 mod?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
NO my mijnd was blown when the toss had the gull to just start rewalling off while 1 void ray went at it. I've been trying toss version of the 111 with 1 gate cyber into star vs zerg. I've only done it vs very hard comp but I loose every time.

It's better to find someone to practice with though. Very Hard AI is actually quite hard up to the first 10 minutes of the game. It plays kind of very all-in early aggression and then it drops to like gold level in terms of macro. If you can defend your build against it during this time, it means that it's solid enough for the ladder against almost anything, but even if you can't it doesn't mean it's not going to be viable against some econ or teching players. So the main problem with playing Very Hard AI is that it forces you to get more defense early on than you are usually going to need in the real games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You played some sc1 mod?

It's better to find someone to practice with though. Very Hard AI is actually quite hard up to the first 10 minutes of the game. It plays kind of very all-in early aggression and then it drops to like gold level in terms of macro. If you can defend your build against it during this time, it means that it's solid enough for the ladder against almost anything, but even if you can't it doesn't mean it's not going to be viable against some econ or teching players. So the main problem with playing Very Hard AI is that it forces you to get more defense early on than you are usually going to need in the real games.

He actually meant wrap prisms







He would keep on moving them into my turrets and getting them killed! lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
You played some sc1 mod?

I couldn't remember the SC2 name


----------



## dejanh

I'm currently engaged in a game that has been going on for more than 3 hours. The player in question, specifically named RainWaters on Battle.net is purposefully and willfully abusing game mechanics to deny me a just and fair win. He has no army left, only a command center that he floated over into a corner. I have asked him politely repeated times to resign in dignity as he has no chance of winning. I have visibility of 100% of the map, and 10 marines, 11 SCV but no command center unfortunately and hence cannot build up to finish him off. As soon as he would move his command center anywhere near a land mass he would be dead. I have also taken care to point him at the SC2 policy that explicitly states abusing game mechanics is against the TOS.

The image at 24 minutes can be seen here -








The image at 3h 21 minutes can be seen here -









I will post a replay too once the gong-show ends. Some players have no sportsman like conduct at all. I will also send a report to Blizzard directly about this and notify other forums to watch out for this player.


----------



## thiru

Wait it out. Play solitaire. We're rooting for ya


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wait it out. Play solitaire. We're rooting for ya




















Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=173586


----------



## dejanh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Wait it out. Play solitaire. We're rooting for ya









Thanks but I think as long as I get the word out about this player I've done my due diligence. I will let it run for a bit longer as I have a few other things to finish still but once I am done I'll resign. It's only one win we're talking about. I'm just fighting for principle









Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 









Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=173586

Wow, started reading that, very interesting. A lot more to go lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dejanh* 
Thanks but I think as long as I get the word out about this player I've done my due diligence. I will let it run for a bit longer as I have a few other things to finish still but once I am done I'll resign. It's only one win we're talking about. I'm just fighting for principle









Wow, started reading that, very interesting. A lot more to go lol









I agree, it's a very interesting thread. I always knew that mules were great since they equate around 5-6 SCVs(180 minerals/min) but never thought about going 4-5 OCs during a game. Maybe I should, since, I do see what they mean. Imagine having 4-5OCs, landing one near a gold mineral field and then dropping 20 mules. Can you imagine the kind of income you'll get from that? You could constantly keep on harassing P or Z and bring them to their knees


----------



## dejanh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I agree, it's a very interesting thread. I always knew that mules were great since they equate around 5-6 SCVs(180 minerals/min) but never thought about going 4-5 OCs during a game. Maybe I should, since, I do see what they mean. Imagine having 4-5OCs, landing one near a gold mineral field and then dropping 20 mules. Can you imagine the kind of income you'll get from that? You could constantly keep on harassing P or Z and bring them to their knees









Problem however is containing say Zerg while you are building up like that. They are extremely strong and Mutalisks will make short work of the CCs regardless of whether you try to hide them or not. Also, there is a lot of lost income potential while you are building the CC.

*Edit:* Wow, not sure who moderates the threads on Battle.net but they actually removed the whole thread that posted there. So much for discouraging unsportsmanlike play and inappropriate conduct.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dejanh* 
Problem however is containing say Zerg while you are building up like that. They are extremely strong and Mutalisks will make short work of the CCs regardless of whether you try to hide them or not. Also, there is a lot of lost income potential while you are building the CC.

Well, a couple of turrets and some marines will easily deter mutas. The idea of this OC farming is to make an OC whenever you can. The mules will pay for the OC in no time. Of course, make sure to get some bunkers with some MM down as well. Going defenseless usually means GG especially if the Z/P/T pressures you


----------



## rhed5

anyone want to play later tonight? want to practice some strats


----------



## Mwarren

I'll play, whats your username?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dejanh* 
I'm currently engaged in a game that has been going on for more than 3 hours. The player in question, specifically named RainWaters on Battle.net is purposefully and willfully abusing game mechanics to deny me a just and fair win. He has no army left, only a command center that he floated over into a corner. I have asked him politely repeated times to resign in dignity as he has no chance of winning. I have visibility of 100% of the map, and 10 marines, 11 SCV but no command center unfortunately and hence cannot build up to finish him off. As soon as he would move his command center anywhere near a land mass he would be dead. I have also taken care to point him at the SC2 policy that explicitly states abusing game mechanics is against the TOS.

The image at 24 minutes can be seen here -








The image at 3h 21 minutes can be seen here -









I will post a replay too once the gong-show ends. Some players have no sportsman like conduct at all. I will also send a report to Blizzard directly about this and notify other forums to watch out for this player.


absolutely pathetic.

but funny


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhed5* 
anyone want to play later tonight? want to practice some strats

I'm up, any specific time in mind?


----------



## banded1

woot played 3 gold league guys today, lost all of them and got demoted to bronze soon after... ***
i started my day 0-3 ended it 7-5
including this game. you have you watch. i believe they call it ROFLSTOMP?








i noticed in bronze league there is a definite lack of any type of strategy
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...nt#rd:upgrades


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
woot played 3 gold league guys today, lost all of them and got demoted to bronze soon after... ***
i started my day 0-3 ended it 7-5
including this game. you have you watch. i believe they call it ROFLSTOMP?








i noticed in bronze league there is a definite lack of any type of strategy
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...nt#rd:upgrades

lol, but, yes, at least in silver there are strats. In bronze, I think it's mostly cheese. My advice is to take advantage of that and learn how to macro and harass your opponent


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I lol'd. I bypassed the practice games. Then the five placement games my computer wasn't stable and crashed in everyone of it. It put me as 0-5 and into bronze. I then proceeded to DT rush my way to plat.

Screw strat, cheeze it man.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I lol'd. I bypassed the practice games. Then the five placement games my computer wasn't stable and crashed in everyone of it. It put me as 0-5 and into bronze. I then proceeded to DT rush my way to plat.

Screw strat, cheeze it man.

Cheeser!








TBH, if I were you, just enjoy the game and play with the different strats. In bronze, you get a lot of cheese such as VR rushes, etc.... Use that to your advantage to get your macro and micro down pat so that when you get promoted up, you'll be pretty good for your league


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah I'm still practicing macro. The hardest part for me at the moment is actually producing units after creating a lot of unit producing structures.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Yeah I'm still practicing macro. The hardest part for me at the moment is actually producing units after creating a lot of unit producing structures.

I'll be on in a while, hopefully in an hour, so if you are still on we can get a couple of rounds going. Well, for producing units, I think it's best to know the different kind of units and stacking as in SSC(stalker, sentry, colossi) works well since colossi lay out the dps. Basically, as you macro, scout your opponent and start getting wrapgate tech as well as getting some stalkers+sentries. Then depending on what your opponent is making, make the appropriate units.
Armored = Immortals
Mutas = some phenoixes to kite or at the minimum, so, sentries+blink stalkers for GS to reduce muta damage
Get upgrades, keep scouting, expand early, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm going to turn off SCII's sound track and rock this instead:


You Tube


----------



## thiru

"That's the stuff"


----------



## DoomDash

So pissed they don't say that still. <3 sc1.

spoilers

http://kotaku.com/5709838/ending-lea...yline=true&s=i


----------



## BigFan

Ah yes, I remember that well. Some a nice soundtrack as well. Really hope that they can somehow add that to the game. I am wondering though if you were to go to the music files and replace this one with the one there of course changing to the same name and type, would it play(likely) and would it be considered hacking?









Logging into SC2 now, anyone up for a game?


----------



## thiru

I'm up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm up.

Nice, see you on! Plan to try some new strats


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan connection fail.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
BigFan connection fail.

Yes, I wrote back to your 'lol'. Trying to go back in now!









Edit: Not sure what the problem was, but, it seems to be working just fine now :/ So darn annoying. I've heard that ZvsZ is annoying to the point of wanting to punch kittens, I would say this is worse


----------



## DoomDash

ZvZ is worse still actually.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


ZvZ is worse still actually.


lol, disagree completely. I would much rather lose at ZvsZ or work hard to get a win then have the internet disconnect me from the game although. At least in one scenario, I get experience, the other, nothing other than a loss


----------



## DoomDash

I stand by my statement







. The only thing you'll learn is how much banelings ruin more than one match up







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I stand by my statement







. The only thing you'll learn is how much banelings ruin more than one match up







.


If you are so confident, then let's go have some ZvsZ action. I'm up for it, the question is, are you?


----------



## DoomDash

lol you are so confident for someone who has never came close to even hurting me in any match up







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


lol you are so confident for someone who has never came close to even hurting me in any match up







.


lol, maybe, I just wanna play more matches is all. With custom games, there are no points on the line, so, I can try different strats such as the raven in that ffa. I will admit those that I've only scratched you in some of our games, but, you never know







I like to call this motivation


----------



## DoomDash

Well confidence is good, as well as practice. ZvZ is stupid though and I have no idea how to properly play it. I already did my 7RR to expand build against you a few times and that worked well. I still feel like I could easily lose to a solid sling/bane build though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well confidence is good, as well as practice. ZvZ is stupid though and I have no idea how to properly play it. I already did my 7RR to expand build against you a few times and that worked well. I still feel like I could easily lose to a solid sling/bane build though.


How is it stupid? TvsT and PvsP can be just as bad because they are also mirror matches








Well, there's not much to playing, just don't expand early and put pressure on your opponent, pretty easy


----------



## DoomDash

Banelings ruin it. If you don't agree I don't know what to tell you. It's just like it encourages you to play 1 base all in and that's why I hate it cause that's not how I roll as Z.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Banelings ruin it. If you don't agree I don't know what to tell you. It's just like it encourages you to play 1 base all in and that's why I hate it cause that's not how I roll as Z.


In most of the ZvsZ games, it's mostly massive sling attack to teching to mutas and depending on who gets mutas first and is macroing better, it can just continue that way. Banes are great if he masses slings because you can easily take down a couple, likewise, you can bait his banes with a sling. I've tried this and it works if they aren't careful about it







BTW, there is nothing wrong with 1basing. Just make sure to have some defense and then expanding. Infact, expanding without much d is a bad idea. Only reason that Z do it early is to get an economical advantage and defend against 2 rax due to the extra larvae from the 2nd hatchery


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If I didn't have two jobs I'd be playign right now too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


If I didn't have two jobs I'd be playign right now too.


lol, well it's only 10:40 over there, we can get a game in if you like. Avg. time would be 20min or so


----------



## DoomDash

Z @ Silver is different. 1 base is ******ed. a strong sling/bane army will defeat any 2 base play... to me that's just lame / stupid.

Banelings ruin it for anyone who likes to play games that will last more than 10 minutes ( excluding bad players ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Z @ Silver is different. 1 base is ******ed. a strong sling/bane army will defeat any 2 base play... to me that's just lame / stupid.

Banelings ruin it for anyone who likes to play games that will last more than 10 minutes ( excluding bad players ).


The thing is, I never said that's its one base. All my ZvsZ games have been 2+ bases. One of those games, I played against a gold player(used to be plat, but, he keeps getting disconnected which got him depromoted) and we both had 2 bases. I ended up taking a third but he had another 2 bases or so which I didn't scout, so, I lost but I won(disconnect). I think I posted the replay here.

My point was that at the start of ZvsZ, you have no choice but to stay on one base because that massive sling army is usually coming and if you expand early, you'll be punished for it, simple as that. Only after you have your own large army and have backed him off, can you expand with some safety. I'm pretty confident that it's the same at the diamond level, just with more banes


----------



## DoomDash

which is lame.


----------



## Sainesk

is today the finals of the GSL or semi? (in 3 hrs ish)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


which is lame.


huh? TvsT and PvsP are the exact same. Expanding too early can cause you to lose the game. Some of the T games I've played, it's MMT and leaping tanks. Adding in some medivacs and doing some drops, nothing different. Likewise with PvsP, you always get the zealot+stalker+sentry attacks then get colossi or immortals and attack or expand, etc.... My point is, the other matchup are the same thing, only difference is that you have banes in ZvsZ, so, your micro better be good otherwise you can lose your sling army in seconds


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


is today the finals of the GSL or semi? (in 3 hrs ish)










nope, semis I think









This thread is hilarious: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1127159907


----------



## DoomDash

Losing your army that fast to a 50/25 unit is not my idea of fun. No place in this game if you ask me. I prefer units you can actually micro with over time to have them live, not micro them literally every second or you're screwed. If you don't understand that you just have different idea's of what fun is. In TvT there is almost nothing even comparable. Everything you have can be at least have a chance to micro away / run even with 1 mistake. Some of ZvZ is almost random luck at times. Obviously not always, but I can almost promise you ZvZ has more good players losing to bad players than any other match up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Losing your army that fast to a 50/25 unit is not my idea of fun. No place in this game if you ask me. I prefer units you can actually micro with over time to have them live, not micro them literally every second or you're screwed. If you don't understand that you just have different idea's of what fun is. In TvT there is almost nothing even comparable. Everything you have can be at least have a chance to micro away / run even with 1 mistake. Some of ZvZ is almost random luck at times. Obviously not always, but *I can almost promise you ZvZ has more good players losing to bad players than any other match up.*


You make it sound like your whole army of slings is gone. I've never lost all my army like that before, because, you have to micro them to avoid the banes and then send your own. The worse case scenario was exchanging banes for each other or he'll attack my slings with banes, I move back and send my own banes in, etc.... Quite funny and make for some interesting matches. 
Maybe random luck, but, that last statement is your opinion because there is no way to test it. One thing is for certain, whenever I play ZvsZ, if I see my opponent expanding, he's as good as dead, because, I'll be throwing as many slings at him as I can while defending my base using spine crawlers. If you really interested in improving your micro, playing ZvsZ will greatly increase it due to banes. BTW, if it does go slings/banes, you'll more than likely copy your opponent which leads to some interesting sling/bane exchanges, lol. You can still micro slings and banes, so, I don't see your point. Also, banes only do 20 damage to non-light units, so, it's easy to make a roach and use it as bait if your opponent A-moves









Edit: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...7159907?page=3
Those posts are hilarious, love the dragoon one, a must read!


----------



## DoomDash

I've used roach-a-plenty. Not as easy as you make it sound. Like I said I think a good sling/bane build will beat roach on most maps with little to no thought.

I can't prove that good players lose to bad players more than ZvZ, but of course that's my opinion and my Zerg Diamond friends feel the exact same way / hate it.

Also I don't need to play ZvZ for micro, I play TvZ and TvP which has just as hard of micro ( banes, storms, kiting ect ).

But congrats on being the only one in the world who thinks ZvZ is a good match up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've used roach-a-plenty. Not as easy as you make it sound. Like I said I think a good sling/bane build will beat roach on most maps with little to no thought.

I can't prove that good players lose to bad players more than ZvZ, but of course that's my opinion and my Zerg Diamond friends feel the exact same way / hate it.

Also I don't need to play ZvZ for micro, I play TvZ and TvP which has just as hard of micro ( banes, storms, kiting ect ).

*But congrats on being the only one in the world who thinks ZvZ is a good match up.*


Well, maybe not as easy but giving mostly some idea to counter your points. Never said I enjoyed the matchup, but, never said I disliked it. It's just unique in its own way


----------



## DoomDash

It's like a unique piece of poop, still not worth saving.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It's like a unique piece of poop, still not worth saving.

huh? Are you talking about banes here, because, I'm kinda lost to what you're talking about








Thread you'll definitely like: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...5772347?page=1


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I saw that thread and giggled at it. I mean, as much fun as it is leap frogging all the way across blistering sands just so I don't get 1Aed by sling / bane and cleaned by muta... even being 20 supply ahead ( happened before ).

Also his post says banelings are only good vs light units... which is a joke. They are cost efficient in many situations because SCII naturally groups units tightly together. No one has the 1000 APM to truly spread out all of their units vs banes. Not even Foxer.


----------



## banded1

sooo ever since i got bumped to bronze, i havent lost a tvt match-up, my win % is way up too... i started 25th in my league, i am now 5th, the top guy in my league has almost 2000 pts :l


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah I saw that thread and giggled at it. I mean, as much fun as it is leap frogging all the way across blistering sands just so I don't get 1Aed by sling / bane and cleaned by muta... even being 20 supply ahead ( happened before )*...*.

umm, I don't get what your trying to say there, because, that sentence was cut short







Are you saying that even if you enjoy leap frogging, you still don't enjoy going up against banes because that would make sense


----------



## DoomDash

It makes sense. It's not fun, incredibly slow, and ******ed that I have to leap frog tanks all the way across long maps just so my army doesn't die pretty much instantly. Have you ever leap frogged your tanks across Blistering sands? It takes like 20 minutes. Don't get greedy and try to get close to his bases in a timely maner or you're a goner.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banded1* 
sooo ever since i got bumped to bronze, i havent lost a tvt match-up, my win % is way up too... i started 25th in my league, i am now 5th, the top guy in my league has almost 2000 pts :l

Nice, likely just trying to get the portrait or not really sure









@doom Actually, there aren't cost efficient against tanks or thors for that matter. Tanks cost what 150/100 or so. One bane costs 50/25 and does 20 damage. That's at least 7+ banes meaning 350/175 for a tank, not efficient at all, much worse for a thor as well


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Nice, likely just trying to get the portrait or not really sure









@doom Actually, there aren't cost efficient against tanks or thors for that matter. Tanks cost what 150/100 or so. One bane costs 50/25 and does 20 damage. That's at least 7+ banes meaning 350/175 for a tank, not efficient at all, much worse for a thor as well









You aren't taking into account the 3-4 units surrounding the thor / tank that they just did hundreds of damage to in splash. No **** they aren't efficient vs single thors or siege tanks, but they have splash that has a surprisingly big radius and is super effective. Worst of all even if you shoot the baneling to death the splash damage happens anyway. How dare you be rewarded killing one with out acid flying all over your units







.

Why do you think Z Koreans are doing it against Protoss? It's not because banelings are good vs single stalkers, its because no micro in the world can spread out your units enough to make banelings be un-efficient in large armies.

Also take into account losing a little money with banelings on a single thor. It's still much easier to replace those banes than it is to replace that Thor. Money isn't always what makes the unit come out on top.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
It makes sense. It's not fun, incredibly slow, and ******ed that I have to leap frog tanks all the way across long maps just so my army doesn't die pretty much instantly. Have you ever leap frogged your tanks across Blistering sands? It takes like 20 minutes. Don't get greedy and try to get close to his bases in a timely maner or you're a goner.

I've never leaped frogged tanks across blistering sands before. I've only ever played TvsZ twice, one in a custom game where he baned busted me. In the other one, I won on scrap station due to banshee harass. I took out his 2 bases and then went for his gold one using MMM+banshees for some more dps, rather sloppy playing on my part but turrets around my base with some marines+medivacs really helped against his 16 mutas or so. Lucky for me, he didn't tried to group them together and focus fire my marines or the medivacs


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
You aren't taking into account the 3-4 units surrounding the thor / tank that they just did hundreds of damage to in splash. *No **** they aren't efficient vs single thors or siege tanks*, but they have splash that has a surprisingly big radius and is super effective.

Why do you think Z Koreans are doing it against Protoss? It's not because banelings are good vs single stalkers, its because no micro in the world can spread out your units enough to make banelings be un-efficient in large armies.









I knew you were going to mention it, but, you are correct, I wasn't taking that into account. With tanks, usually you spread them out. With thors and marines, it's really up to you. Of course, you can't spread them out to the point where each one marine can be only hit by one bane but at least maybe in groups of 3-4. I think the best weapon against them to create a choke point and have some marauders+cs to slow them down along with marines focus firing them. Again, you'll only take so many down, but, such is the nature of the game. Only fix that I can see is reducing the splash so that one bane can take out 2 marines or so so that they are at least hard countering them, but, you still need to consider that they cost gas and one bane > one marine in terms of cost.


----------



## DoomDash

Terran to attack Zerg : Bring army, leap frog tanks, spread out, kite to tank lines, scan for baneling mines, make sure Marauders are in front of the Marines, make sure tanks in back are protected from muta's. Think about how slow that is to be done the way it's needed ( and it's needed believe me ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Terran to attack Zerg : Bring army, leap frog tanks, spread out, kite to tank lines, scan for baneling mines, make sure Marauders are in front of the Marines, make sure tanks in back are protected from muta's. Think about how slow that is to be done the way it's needed ( and it's needed believe me ).

That's definitely slow, but, what can I say?


----------



## DoomDash

When tanks were more efficient vs light you could for the most part afford to move across the map with out the risk of your super expensive army just being screwed if you didn't have a siege tank already sieged to fall back to. I don't think I want tanks to do that damage again ( I do find the falling back to your siege tanks to be neat ), but I also don't think that banes need to do that sick amount of radius splash that they currently have.

From my findings you have to have tanks sieged at all times your you pretty much lose. I don't think that's really ideal for big maps... kills Terran mobility even more.

I don't have an answer for it... but I would like Blizzard to play around with it in PTR and see how both sides feel.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
When tanks were more efficient vs light you could for the most part afford to move across the map with out the risk of your super expensive army just being screwed if you didn't have a siege tank already sieged to fall back to. I don't think I want tanks to do that damage again ( I do find the falling back to your siege tanks to be neat ), but I also don't think that banes need to do that sick amount of radius splash that they currently have.

From my findings you have to have tanks sieged at all times your you pretty much lose. I don't think that's really ideal for big maps... kills Terran mobility even more.

I don't have an answer for it... but I would like Blizzard to play around with it in PTR and see how both sides feel.

hmm, they do 35 against all and 50 vs. armored now, correct? You gotta remember though, that siege tanks are weak upfront so if I engage with slings and you seige up, if you kill a couple, I'll be at the tank in no time at all









True though, try and keep them sieged up as much as possible. Well, since, we have PTR, I'm sure they'll play around with it like FG or bunker build reduction time


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I just want it to be looked at. PTR was a great idea.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Another game trick:

http://www.justin.tv/tpfour/b/275229914

Around 3+ minutes.

At what time is the trick?


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure of the exact time. It's right after 3 minutes, with just a probe making a 3rd pylon pushing him through his other pylon.


----------



## ThumperSD

Ah neat.. I never knew that


----------



## blackedv

well i just learned a lesson in a 4v4, the need to magic box 20 void rays against 8 thors lol luckily i caught all my red health bars and sped them out of there to go rain havoc elsewhere


----------



## DoomDash

GSL last night / protoss players:



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



Wow watch last nights games to see the Protoss player just throw away games. Especially the last one wow was it played poorly. Remember everyone discussing Protoss players just making way more mistakes? Watch the one on blistering. Zealots attacking into narrow areas, and DT's warping in right in front of a terran army.


----------



## thiru

It was kinda sad to watch.


----------



## DoomDash

580 GTX one state away! Tomorrow!!!!!!! Probably will end up with 150 bonus pool. If I break 2000 I will be content, and if I break 2100 I will be pretty happy. If I do more ecstatic







.

Also hit 1600 on huggle... with 600-700 bonus pool.

sigh


You Tube


----------



## scaz

Yea, I like the 4v4 more. There is more to it. I was tring to do some 2v2 and even there it was hard because players where so on top of eveything.


----------



## DoomDash

1v1 is the only way to roll for me.


----------



## earwig1990

1v1 and 3v3 is legit

i cant stand 4v4 just cuz of the lag most the time. you got some nub with 3G internet on a Compaq computer with no graphic card trying to play 4v4 slowing everyone down lol

EFFF EMMM ELLLL!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
1v1 is the only way to roll for me.

True indeed!

I mean FFAs, 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 with friends are all good and fun, but, with 1vs1, the only one you can blame is yourself and if you win, if feels a lot better than in a 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 because you were the one to make the decisions that led to your victory!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True indeed!

I mean FFAs, 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 with friends are all good and fun, but, with 1vs1, the only one you can blame is yourself and if you win, if feels a lot better than in a 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 because you were the one to make the decisions that led to your victory!









Yeah whenever I play a FFA with BigFan I blame him for my loss because he is the reason for my loss. BigFan = jerk







.

old but they keep mentioning it on GSL:


You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yeah whenever I play a FFA with BigFan I blame him for my loss because he is the reason for my loss. BigFan = jerk







.

old but they keep mentioning it on GSL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Lrd...layer_embedded









Well I can't deny that. After watching some of the replay from last night, it was indeed my drops, seeker missiles and banshee harass that levelled some of your base. Interesting enough, my second drop took down your exp just as you were finishing off thiru and made you stop and retreat which gave thiru enough time with his 50 bases







to recover and take the game. Don't worry, next FFA we play, I'll harass his base first


----------



## ThumperSD

*SPOILER*

Hongun made some really bad decision last night -_-

I hope the winner of MC vs Jinro wins GSL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Hongun made some really bad decision last night -_-

I hope the winner of MC vs Jinro wins GSL


Make sure to use spoilers please









Just watched the first match of Clide vs. Leenock and wow, would say it's the best TvsZ that I've ever seen. I mean the massive armies, constant back and forth, micro and macro were just awesome and to think that Leenock is only 15







We even got to the late game and Clide was able to keep up against BLs. This is indeed how all matches should be like!








What did you guys think of that first match, since, I haven't seen the rest


----------



## thiru

Clide vs Leenock was beyond epic.


----------



## poroboszcz

Do you know when is PTR going back live?


----------



## thiru

Tomorrow or the day after I think.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Make sure to use spoilers please









Just watched the first match of Clide vs. Leenock and wow, would say it's the best TvsZ that I've ever seen. I mean the massive armies, constant back and forth, micro and macro were just awesome and to think that Leenock is only 15







We even got to the late game and Clide was able to keep up against BLs. This is indeed how all matches should be like!








What did you guys think of that first match, since, I haven't seen the rest










How do you add spoilers? Im not saying much. Just that Hongun made some bad decisions.


----------



## thiru

You just write like this:



Spoiler



Hiya


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


How do you add spoilers? Im not saying much. Just that Hongun made some bad decisions.


I know, however, one can only assume that means he lost based on that. Not sure if that's the case though, have yet to watch the match


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, he threw away 3 games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes, he threw away 3 games.


lol, spoiler tags?


----------



## DoomDash

Doesn't spoil the series knowing he threw away a bunch. He could have won







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Doesn't spoil the series knowing he threw away a bunch. He could have won







.


lol, aren't the series best of 5 because that pretty much says who won right there


----------



## DoomDash

people can come back. best of 7 actually.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


people can come back. best of 7 actually.


oh, I see







Carry on









BTW, you guys up for another FFA later on(30min-1hr)?


----------



## DoomDash

You make me hate FFA's.









As well as this PC....

but I suppose.

1 more day!!


----------



## thiru

I just played one with Nevaziah and Razultull. I 14-expanded









I died though, mainly because I kept attacking both players just for fun xD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I just played one with Nevaziah and Razultull. I 14-expanded









I died though, mainly because I kept attacking both players just for fun xD


Maybe we can find an 9 player FFA map where I get the middle location.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You make me hate FFA's.


















Well, you asked for it by giving me a beating every time we play 1vs1







Although tonight, I'll go for whoever else is playing, give you a night off







Also, I usually go for the hardest player first, since, I'll have an easier time with whoever is left


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Maybe we can find an 9 player FFA map where I get the middle location.


I would love to see FFA where you have 8 players since the map support this, but, with party mode, max is 4 if I'm not mistaken. However, we can always play an 8 player map if 4 player maps aren't working


----------



## DoomDash

Well yeah I'd be doing the same thing.

I think there are 14 player maps.


----------



## thiru

You can have a party of 6. But you can still add players to a map beyond 6 players.


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan get on now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan get on now.


lol, give me 10min, just need to finish something


----------



## Sainesk

only played coop/against the ai up until now, tried practice quick match and only lost 1/5 games so far hehe

what are the differences between the practice and non-practice matches?
from watching the GSL I think the game speed is the same as coop instead of the slow practice rounds, and not as many blockades, anything else?

looking forward to getting owned as soon as I finish these practice matches...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'llbe on in about 30 min as well. Mathieu 519. Gona ladder.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So sad. every tos 4 gates..


----------



## ThumperSD

What race do you play? 4 gate is one of the things you always have to look out for when playing against protoss


----------



## DoomDash

DoomDash's 2v2 team's are undefeated.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
DoomDash's 2v2 team's are undefeated.









Practice later today?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 







Practice later today?

Tomorrow after my 580 comes.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
only played coop/against the ai up until now, tried practice quick match and only lost 1/5 games so far hehe

what are the differences between the practice and non-practice matches?
from watching the GSL I think the game speed is the same as coop instead of the slow practice rounds, and not as many blockades, anything else?

looking forward to getting owned as soon as I finish these practice matches...









You mean practice league? you should stop playing those, they encourage turtling because of the rocks, and they're actually much slower than real ladder games.

If you need familiarize yourself with a race just play with a friend, a random guy in custom games, or just against hard to insane AI (play on FASTER speed).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
You mean practice league? you should stop playing those, they encourage turtling because of the rocks, and they're actually much slower than real ladder games.

If you need familiarize yourself with a race just play with a friend, a random guy in custom games, or just against hard to insane AI (play on FASTER speed).

While I agree with everything, I think playing against hard to insane AI is well insane, lol. If he's familiarizing himself with a race, he should probably go against very easy, so, that he can tech up to all the different abilities to give them a try, etc....









Those were some nice FFA and team games. Those 1vs1 were also great especially the one we played thiru. After watching the replay, I realized that your exp's nexus was almost a goner, just a couple more hits were needed. Was an interesting game, because, I macro'd well, kept energy low on my queens, did some creep spreading and did a lot of scouting and harass with mutas. Hopefully, I can play as well as I did against my opponents on the ladder









Anyone who's interested in the replay, I can post it here. Just make sure to disregard what was the said at the start, lol.


----------



## thiru

I'd rather not, I fail'd so hard at several key moments









I still can't believe all my stalkers were blocked by 2 probes... pathfinding is so bad. But I guess they did that on purpose.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think I'll ever get over how lame tanks are vs protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'd rather not, I fail'd so hard at several key moments









I still can't believe all my stalkers were blocked by 2 probes... pathfinding is so bad. But I guess they did that on purpose.

lol, well I was going to post it to see what these guys think in terms of my macro and general gameplay but if you think it was that bad, I won't do it








As for the probes, well, it depends on what was happening. Even then, my army >>> your army at that point, so, those 2 stalkers wouldn't have made that much of a difference. I mean you were getting hit by mutas from both sides and roaches+slings from the ground, not much you can do unless you have a lot more stalkers or at least storm. I'm pretty confident that with practice, you'll get back to the same level of play you used to be at. It'll make it that much more challenging to play against you, but, I like challenges









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I don't think I'll ever get over how lame tanks are vs protoss.

Well, I would get over that fast, because, I doubt blizzard will buff the tank anytime soon, so, the faster you get over it, the better for you







Even then, 50 against armored isn't bad. Would be nice if they increased that maybe to 60 or so but then it might be OP, at least we'll get to test it in the PTR


----------



## DoomDash

I will never get over it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I will never get over it.

lol, well, your choice. You make it sound like tanks are horrible. They aren't, they just aren't as powerful as you want them to be. I think going thor+MMM is best against P with some tanks for support. Of course, if they go colossi, then vikings go a long way there. Let's not forget ravens for their ppd and seeker missiles to take down enemy workers


----------



## DoomDash

Seeker missiles are a joke. In fact auto turrets are better for drones.

Also you didn't mention ghosts. Ghosts are key esp with templar / immortal / sentries out.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Seeker missiles are a joke. In fact auto turrets are better for drones.

Also you didn't mention ghosts. Ghosts are key esp with templar / immortal / sentries out.

True, I forget ghosts







As for seeker missile, well, if you catch your opponent off guard or if when you engage them, you sneak a raven or two from behind and use it, then the chance of success is pretty high


----------



## yellowtoblerone

When are they gonna fix that auto turret. Such long spawn time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True, I forget ghosts







As for seeker missile, well, if you catch your opponent off guard or if when you engage them, you sneak a raven or two from behind and use it, then the chance of success is pretty high









Seeker missiles are only good against someone who doesn't pay attention to their units and loves to clump mutas.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
When are they gonna fix that auto turret. Such long spawn time.

Fix? I didn't realize they needed fixing?


----------



## thiru

Once a terran put a single turret in my mineral line and since my army was away, I just told my probes to run away. About 20 seconds later, I look back again and I'm like holy crap that thing is still there


----------



## DoomDash

you can kill it with probes pretty easy. Or if you are toss jus warp in a unit :/. they go away when you kill them







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
you can kill it with probes pretty easy. Or if you are toss jus warp in a unit :/. they go away when you kill them







.

Yeah it was the first time I saw one in my games, so I didn't really know how to deal with it








It was also the game where I got nuked for the first time. Heard the warning, checked my 2 expansions, checked my main base, and then it was "oh sh- my army" and most of it blew up xD


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
you can kill it with probes pretty easy. Or if you are toss jus warp in a unit :/. they go away when you kill them







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Seeker missiles are only good against someone who doesn't pay attention to their units and loves to clump mutas.

SC2 is about several things, only of them being deceptive. Even if you are aware of what's going on, in a battle, you are mostly focused on what's happening around your troops, make sure to stim, kite, etc.... What'll likely happen is you'll run into the missile if your opponent executes it just right









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Once a terran put a single turret in my mineral line and since my army was away, I just told my probes to run away. About 20 seconds later, I look back again and I'm like holy crap that thing is still there











Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah it was the first time I saw one in my games, so I didn't really know how to deal with it








It was also the game where I got nuked for the first time. Heard the warning, checked my 2 expansions, checked my main base, and then it was *"oh sh- my army"* and most of it blew up xD









I see your point. I've never been nuked before. Doom tried last night, well, he didn't get anywhere. Scanned then stimmed my marines, sniped his ghost and ran back to the security of my tanks


----------



## EgoProxy

Jinro, good luck my gosu, foreign nerd.


----------



## ThumperSD

MC v Jinro will be better than the finals


----------



## EgoProxy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
MC v Jinro will be better than the finals

Everyone seemed to think so, but Rain proved himself that he does not only have all-ins in his arsenal. I'll be making popcorn on finals day regardless


----------



## ThumperSD

MC is going to destroy Rain


----------



## dezshiz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
MC v Jinro will be better than the finals

doesn't look that way lol


----------



## EgoProxy

I knew Jin was gonna lose... But, this was very humiliating for the guy... Oh well... the positive, we will have 2 foreigners in the S class invitationals!


----------



## DoomDash

Ah well.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dezshiz* 
doesn't look that way lol

yea I was expecting more out of Jinro


----------



## DoomDash

A lot of Protoss players don't realize that before stim and shields are done researching there a is a moment if you do 3 gate you can crush the Terran army ( because of adding on tech labs / reactors ). It was cool to see that MC knew exactly when that was a couple of games. I have been nothing but impressed by him.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
I knew Jin was gonna lose... But, this was very humiliating for the guy... Oh well... the positive, we will have 2 foreigners in the S class invitationals!

Guys, please use spoilers!!!!!!!!!!







I was actually looking forward to this match








Think of it this way, whenever the GSL is on(no finals yet), use spoilers. Give or take, a week or so after the finals, then talk in the open so that at least a chance was given to those who are still watching the matches










Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
A lot of Protoss players don't realize that before stim and shields are done researching there a is a moment if you do 3 gate you can crush the Terran army ( because of adding on tech labs / reactors ). It was cool to see that MC knew exactly when that was a couple of games. I have been nothing but impressed by him.

Interesting. It takes quite some time before the tech lab and reactors are up, so, that makes sense, although, the smart thing to do would be to upgrade one barrack at a time and build a bunker early on incase of an early push before stim and cs is done. Even then, without cs, marauders are still great against stalkers but fall easily against zealots. However, after that, only chargelots are great again them(aside from immortals) or air units


----------



## yks

So, Jang Min Chul beat Jinro pretty humiliatingly. However. What will he do in the finals against Rain? 1 week worth of practice and Rain practically saw every type of freaking opening a Protoss can do.

3gate Expo, VR-tech, DT-tech.

I do think that MC will win, Rain will get crushed, even with SangHo and Tester as training buddies. MC got the_stc and Jinro and TOP and Gon.

Yeah, Iron will definitely win. How could I not vote for Iron?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
So, Jang Min Chul beat Jinro pretty humiliatingly. However. What will he do in the finals against Rain? 1 week worth of practice and Rain practically saw every type of freaking opening a Protoss can do.

3gate Expo, VR-tech, DT-tech.

I do think that MC will win, Rain will get crushed, even with SangHo and Tester as training buddies. MC got the_stc and Jinro and TOP and Gon.

Yeah, Iron will definitely win. How could I not vote for Iron?

^^ Read my above post, mostly the first part!


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EgoProxy* 
I knew Jin was gonna lose... But, this was very humiliating for the guy... Oh well... the positive, we will have 2 foreigners in the S class invitationals!

This actually pissed me off. Please hide your spoilers!


----------



## poroboszcz

I decided to play some ladder today after almost 2 weeks break. After losing a PvZ as usual I got a PvP with dual cannon rush and base trading and some nice PvTs ending up with 3-1.

Here's a game with the same strategy I used against doom. I played kind of slow because of not having much practice recently, but the terran wasn't that good either. Carriers FTW!


----------



## DoomDash

****'s good. I haven't watched it yet, but I know.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


****'s good. I haven't watched it yet, but I know.


lol, well if its the same build he used on you, then I say why not?









I'm guessing no GTX580?

@poroboszcz In the words of doom, "bc are kinda ok.... like carriers"








Seriously though, I think carriers are great, they might fall to phenoixes and vikings en mass, but, they are best used in a group. Add in a mothership and upgrades which really skyrocket their attack damage and they are *almost* unstoppable


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, well if its the same build he used on you, then I say why not?









I'm guessing no GTX580?

@poroboszcz In the words of doom, "bc are kinda ok.... like carriers"








Seriously though, I think carriers are great, they might fall to phenoixes and vikings en mass, but, they are best used in a group. Add in a mothership and upgrades which really skyrocket their attack damage and they are *almost* unstoppable










I'm guessing that Terran ( as well as me ) already lost the game before carriers. Carriers are just icing on the cake.

No 580 yet. Haven't slept, keep walking to windows....


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175843

WATCH OUT I'M DOING THIS.


----------



## thiru

I thought someone had already posted that before.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I thought someone had already posted that before.


Not that I know of. Are you admitting to withholding information now traitor?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm guessing that Terran ( as well as me ) already lost the game before carriers. Carriers are just icing on the cake.

No 580 yet. *Haven't slept, keep walking to windows....*


lol, make sure not to walk into the window when they arrive with the GTX580







You should get some sleep though if you were up all night









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175843

WATCH OUT I'M DOING THIS.


Interesting, remember hearing about this, but, not sure from where









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not that I know of. Are you admitting to withholding information now traitor?


lol, he ain't no traitor, well, maybe a bit to BC2







yks on the other hand, is the traitor completely dumping SC2 for WoW, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Only reason Thiru came back is because I was threatening his SC2 thread ownership!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Only reason Thiru came back is because I was threatening his SC2 thread ownership!


hmm, I do see the reasoning and here I thought that I should've taken over the OP of this thread since I'm the 2nd most active on it


----------



## DoomDash

580 in







. Just need to find a flash light for some cables.


----------



## thiru

TBH I came back because of PTR and the chat channels.


----------



## rhed5

I didn't notice this because i was playing on window mode, but anyone else having problems when alt+ tabbing? It takes like 5 seconds to return to my desktop.


----------



## thiru

If you have an ATI card it takes 20 seconds.


----------



## banded1

i think it takes my laptop (which i play on) about 2-3 seconds to alt tab. it usually takes a couple seconds to alt tab out of games doesnt it?
ok im pretty much at 50% win loss now, and ive beaten a few silver guys, i think things are starting to come together









anyways this game made me lol
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war
i could have killed him if i pushed with my reinforcements at the beginning but i kinda toyed with him and it almost cost me the game







good thing i had a PF lol then i get some nice qq rage quitting from him


----------



## thiru

I think PTR is back. It's updating for me.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm guessing that Terran ( as well as me ) already lost the game before carriers. Carriers are just icing on the cake.

No 580 yet. Haven't slept, keep walking to windows....


Kind of. He expanded off 2 rax just after me, but had a turret at his natural next to his army, so I lost 2 DTs without doing any damage. I managed to deny his 3rd for a good while though while securing mine and since than it was a downhill battle for him.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think PTR is back. It's updating for me.


Yes it is with some changes. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=175865

Are you on huggle?


----------



## Mwarren

Sweet, hopping on now to work on some BO's.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


580 in







. Just need to find a flash light for some cables.


Nice, don't forget to change your sig rig









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I didn't notice this because i was playing on window mode, but anyone else having problems when alt+ tabbing? It takes like 5 seconds to return to my desktop.


hmm, I find that if I haven't played any games yet, I can alt+tab pretty quickly but once I watch a replay or play any game, alt+tab is such a pain because it takes forever, so, I avoid it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think PTR is back. It's updating for me.


Nice, PTR is a great place to practice on a ladder without actually losing pts


----------



## DoomDash

Also hit 2000. I might not play the rest tonight as I've been up for a very long time.


----------



## ThumperSD

Go to sleep crackhead... I just woke up







Let me know how many fps you get with that thing.


----------



## CramComplex

@BigFan as requested 7Rax


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Go to sleep crackhead... I just woke up







Let me know how many fps you get with that thing.

Well I'm getting 84~ FPS @ 1920x1080 with all bells and whistles on in SCII. Generally was around 60 on my 480 OCed I believe.

Also did a quick benchmark in RE5, and this card stock beat my 480 with a mild over clock's score.

Also quieter and cooler.

Happy!


----------



## ThumperSD

Nice... it should last you for a while. Ive been looking for a reason to upgrade my graphics card but the only PC game I really play is SC2.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 





Also hit 2000. I might not play the rest tonight as I've been up for a very long time.

All my eyes see in that last pic is bad cable management







Nice though, those fps you are getting are great. Must also be great to have your rig back up









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
*Go to sleep crackhead*... I just woke up







Let me know how many fps you get with that thing.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Nice... it should last you for a while. Ive been looking for a reason to upgrade my graphics card but the only PC game I really play is SC2.

I wouldn't upgrade if SC2 is your only game atm


----------



## DoomDash

Yes I know my cabling is a mess







.

Anyway, my girlfriend just ordered me a new keyboard for Xmas! The mechanical Razer Black Widow Ultimate. Good by Sony VIAO keyboard from 1998.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yes I know my cabling is a mess







.

Anyway, my girlfriend just ordered me a new keyboard for Xmas! The mechanical Razer Black Widow Ultimate. Good by Sony VIAO keyboard from 1998.

lol, well, mine isn't the greatest either, just don't have the room








As for the keyboard, I'm using some old hp one from 1998 or so as well, still works like a charm









Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=7

^^This makes me feel so old and horrible at SC2







Anyone else feel the same?


----------



## DoomDash

What specifically makes you feel horrible?

I was 14 when I started playing SC1.

BTW I will be idling on PTR tonight in channel overclock.net to keep it alive.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
What specifically makes you feel horrible?

I was 14 when I started playing SC1.

BTW I will be idling on PTR tonight in channel overclock.net to keep it alive.

Horribly probably wasn't the best phrase there, but, I just feel old. When comparing my league/rating to some of those kids in that thread(14/15 avg), well, I just don't stack up well







Most seem to be at least mid diamond, some are 2500+ or 2915 in some cases. Although, I'm often too busy to play on a daily basis and I'm stuck with a slow net, so, I just don't ladder up or have the time to really put into the game. I wonder what it would've been like had they released SC2 a couple of years back









I never played SC competitively online. I mean the campaign was really long and tough to beat but I started played when I was about 13 or so after being introduced by a friend. Used to lose playing MP and hated it so I stuck to SP and enjoyed it a lot. I especially loved that terran mission where you have to take down several zerg swarms or whatever it's called. Going siege tanks to take their hive down from a distance with goliaths for air and building bunkers+marines+SCV repair back at the bases due to ultralisks attacking was such an awesome strategy









I also loved the last protoss level in BW where you have to get to the Xelnaga tower going through several zerg bases. While I was able to make it, I used to tease the computer, basically by going around and mind controlling units or taking out OLs, etc.... just for the fun of it







Eventually, I WIPED out all off the zerg on that map, like completely wiped them out and mined out most of the minerals, can't recall how much time it took though. I guess technically speaking I cleansed the protoss homeworld without the Xelnaga towers, so, there was no need for the tower










As for PTR, I might go on a bit later, was on with thiru and cramps a bit earlier to help with some 7 rax strat


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Horribly probably wasn't the best phrase there, but, I just feel old. When comparing my league/rating to some of those kids in that thread(14/15 avg), well, I just don't stack up well







Most seem to be at least mid diamond, some are 2500+ or 2915 in some cases. Although, I'm often too busy to play on a daily basis and I'm stuck with a slow net, so, I just don't ladder up or have the time to really put into the game. I wonder what it would've been like had they released SC2 a couple of years back









As for PTR, I might go on a bit later, was on with thiru and cramps a bit earlier to help with some 7 rax strat









I'm 29 and I still suck at the game ~__~;; plus work and iRL **** happening all around...so yeah...no time to focus on SC2 w/c is the only game I do play...well a little bit of Tekken 6 now and then...haven't taken up my T6-LE:Stick for quite some time now.

Same for me...or until I get pissed off at my fans and turn off my PC.


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Yes I know my cabling is a mess







.

Anyway, my girlfriend just ordered me a new keyboard for Xmas! The mechanical Razer Black Widow Ultimate. Good by Sony VIAO keyboard from 1998.

Why you 1-upping me, bro? Gotta go all ultimate on me =]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
I'm 29 and I still suck at the game ~__~;; plus work and iRL **** happening all around...so yeah...no time to focus on SC2 w/c is the only game I do play...well a little bit of Tekken 6 now and then...haven't taken up my T6-LE:Stick for quite some time now.

Same for me...or until I get pissed off at my fans and turn off my PC.

I think that's the major reason. Back when I was younger, I would spend a decent part of my summer gaming, usually mostly console games everything from RPGs to platformers, etc.... I used to also play sc1 a lot, on and off whether against the AI with friends/random people or through the SP, because, I loved the different abilities and loved to try different strats such as bugging the AI by mass controlling a ton of their units or just going around with scouts attacking undefended sunken colonies then withdraw before they reinforce them. Had SC2 been released earlier, as in a couple of years earlier, I might have been able to get better much faster due to less responsibilities, but, I feel your pain, lol.

Although, I will say that I've improved my gameplay a lot since I started playing SC2. Back when I started playing as Z, my macro was horrible, wouldn't expand, micro wasn't too great, creep spread was horrible as well and my spawn larvae was rather bad. I also wasn't using most of the Z units focusing mostly on zlings or mutas. I was losing to MMM pretty much every other T game and to zealots+stalker+sentry blob almost every P game. It was rather frustrating as well, but, I can handle MMM easily now and I have less problems with ZSS, so, practice makes perfect. I can also hold my own for a good while against higher ranked player, but, of course, since I'm not at their level yet, I'll lose in the end









I also just realized that I called you cramps in an earlier post, oops, my fault


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
I'm 29 and I still suck at the game ~__~;; plus work and iRL **** happening all around...so yeah...no time to focus on SC2 w/c is the only game I do play...well a little bit of Tekken 6 now and then...haven't taken up my T6-LE:Stick for quite some time now.

Same for me...or until I get pissed off at my fans and turn off my PC.

I play Tekken too... and have been for many years. I'm a moderator on tekkenziabatsu.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Star...craft? This is the wrong -craft!


----------



## cory1234

http://topflight.bandcamp.com/album/47-minutes-of-fame


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
Why you 1-upping me, bro? Gotta go all ultimate on me =]

watch out for the 2kro! Can't spam keyboard apm.


----------



## DoomDash

I must be right at my level or even higher than where I should be because I can't even go close 1:1 right now. Played 16 games today and ended up like 40 points higher than where I started.

I'm getting destroyed @ times. Seems like everyone is 2200-2400 too. I don't get it... I've lose enough to have my MMR go lower yet people seem to be @ the same level. Not only that but I never seen to win much points anymore. Always +2X at most... and I do get paired up with people that I'm "favored" against even though they have way more points than me.

Still have 60 bonus pool but I had much higher expectations.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
http://topflight.bandcamp.com/album/47-minutes-of-fame

W T F are you doing in ladder bro? 2500? I can barely stay above 2000. Whenever I played you I certainly didn't feel like you were even close to 500 points better than me. Maybe you've gotten a lot better since then.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
I think that's the major reason. Back when I was younger, I would spend a decent part of my summer gaming, usually mostly console games everything from RPGs to platformers, etc.... but, I feel your pain, lol.

I can also hold my own for a good while against higher ranked player, but, of course, since I'm not at their level yet, I'll lose in the end









I also just realized that I called you cramps in an earlier post, oops, my fault









Well I do get ID'ed from time to time when buying cigarettes or co-workers thinking I'm only 19...so it ain't all that bad LOL.

Same but I do panic and do crazy cheese mid or late game that's why I lose...plus as thiru said I need more macro~

I'm pretty sure that was intentional..................LOL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I play Tekken too... and have been for many years. I'm a moderator on tekkenziabatsu.

Ah I miss TZ...kinda lost interest in the game tho ever since SC2 came out...PSN friends keep spamming my inbox on when I was going online...will be waiting for the new TTT2 and TvSF to come out...until then...SC2 baby~


----------



## Kaoz

I'm a bronze league player, any others want to practice. I play z and if anyone is interested just to practice or try new strats out or what not hit me up. Bnet name is Verd / 997


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, just got owned by Daut in round 4 of TL.open like a total noob. The difference between mid diamond and the top is quite huge wow.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, just got owned by Daut in round 4 of TL.open like a total noob. The difference between mid diamond and the top is quite huge wow.


For sure.

Anyway, I had a fast +1 TvT idea a week ago and I got some replays of it in action. Game one the +1 isn't AS important because it's mainly my tactic that won the game. This guy was 2500~ in ladder.



This game +1 DOES come into effect. You'll that even though I'm some what contained, and even have no vision advantage ( vikings ) I can still manage to break out. This player is 2350~



Really cool to see how sick +1 is.

Also holy **** 5+ TvT's in a row.. lame.


----------



## Gigalisk

Is anyone having issues with opening starcraft and it has this annoying update? AFAIK, there is no major patch push that has been announced correct?


----------



## thiru

You mean patch 1.2 that's in PTR right now?


----------



## Gigalisk

Dont know...i checked the Blizzard FTP, and there wasnt anything new. Is that the latest patch and as of when? Been kind of busy, i havent been on in like 4 days.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Dont know...i checked the Blizzard FTP, and there wasnt anything new. Is that the latest patch and as of when? Been kind of busy, i havent been on in like 4 days.


The next patch is in public beta, that's what you're downloading.


----------



## Gigalisk

Aha, thanks.


----------



## Sainesk

just played a practice match that lasted over an hour







but I guess the slower game speed was one of the causes...

what's the longest league match you guys have seen?

I was surprised watching the replay my apm almost hit 200 at one point, I thought I was probably doing like 5 to 10 things a minute still being a newbie and all


----------



## DoomDash

I'm convinced this MMR **** is completely ****ed up. How is that every 2200-2400 player has the same MMR, or worse MMR than me? I've just lost 5 games in a row to players higher than me in that range that I was "favored" against. Just lost another 50 ****ing points. Also these people I'm playing are generally just crushing me, and to be perfectly honest I haven't done well in sometime... why is my MMR so high? I'm telling you guys this system is broken or I some how am worse.


----------



## thiru

Instant APM doesn't mean anything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaoz* 
I'm a bronze league player, any others want to practice. I play z and if anyone is interested just to practice or try new strats out or what not hit me up. Bnet name is Verd

Make sure to put your code as well, otherwise, no one will be able to add you









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I must be right at my level or even higher than where I should be because I can't even go close 1:1 right now. Played 16 games today and ended up like 40 points higher than where I started.

I'm getting destroyed @ times. Seems like everyone is 2200-2400 too. I don't get it... I've lose enough to have my MMR go lower yet people seem to be @ the same level. Not only that but I never seen to win much points anymore. Always +2X at most... and I do get paired up with people that I'm "favored" against even though they have way more points than me.

Still have 60 bonus pool but I had much higher expectations.

Maybe your MMR has stabilized, so, even with some losses, there isn't much of a difference which is why you face the same level of opponents. Remember MMR doesn't equal points. I have seen something similar to what you are seeing. I was only around 400-500 points and I was facing people who have played a couple of hundred games with points of 1200+, so, MMR counts, points don't







As for the bonus pool, well if you aren't favoured, you'll get 10 points or so and with the pool, it becomes 20 or so which makes sense









Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
Lol, just got owned by Daut in round 4 of TL.open like a total noob. The difference between mid diamond and the top is quite huge wow.

True, same with the difference between high diamond and pros









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
W T F are you doing in ladder bro? 2500? I can barely stay above 2000. Whenever I played you I certainly didn't feel like you were even close to 500 points better than me. Maybe you've gotten a lot better since then.

Best way to settle this, is to have a 1vs1, you vs. him. I'll spectate









Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
Well I do get ID'ed from time to time when buying cigarettes or co-workers thinking I'm only 19...so it ain't all that bad LOL.

Same but I do panic and do crazy cheese mid or late game that's why I lose...plus as thiru said I need more macro~

I'm pretty sure that was intentional..................LOL

Ah I miss TZ...kinda lost interest in the game tho ever since SC2 came out...PSN friends keep spamming my inbox on when I was going online...will be waiting for the new TTT2 and TvSF to come out...until then...SC2 baby~

lol, I guess not







Macro is so important, it's pretty much affects whether you win or lose, because, if your macro is bad, it means that you won't have the resources to make the required amount of units to defend or attack your opponent. Really, I guess the best rule there would be to constantly make workers for the first couple of minutes and continue doing so as the game progresses, although, make sure to not go crazy with worker production.

Never EVER panic, because, once you lose control of yourself, the game is over. Just macro at the start, while scouting and building structures. Slowly add in units as you monitor what your opponent is doing while tech up, upgrading and making workers. Once your opponent is ready to move up, start making more units and engage them. Having the right unit composition really helps in the engagement due to counters and such.

As for the name, well, I read something like cramps or so when we had that last yesterday so that's what stuck with me, lol









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
just played a practice match that lasted over an hour







but I guess the slower game speed was one of the causes...

what's the longest league match you guys have seen?

I was surprised watching the replay my apm almost hit 200 at one point, I thought I was probably doing like 5 to 10 things a minute still being a newbie and all









Abandon practice games. You'll find that as soon as you play the first league game, everything is much faster which is more enjoyable







In terms of the longest league game, maybe 40 or 50 min, although, I lost the replay







The major reason for that was he rushed to VRs on delta and I wasn't ready. Then for some odd reason, instead of finishing me off, since, I had mostly drones, he retreated or did some more damage, but, didn't take any of my workers out. I took the opportunity to expand like a madman, macroed like no tommorrow and had something like 5 bases or so then I started getting BLs to break down his photo cannon defense and lots of corruptors for his mothership, carrier, VR attack. I started building ultras then with BLs, ultras and slings took out his main base easily. Up to now, I have no clue why he didn't just search for my remaining drones to finish me off, but, meh, I'm not complaining








As for apm, during battles, mine spikes up pretty high as well, but, my average is 75


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
For sure.

Anyway, I had a fast +1 TvT idea a week ago and I got some replays of it in action. Game one the +1 isn't AS important because it's mainly my tactic that won the game. This guy was 2500~ in ladder.



This game +1 DOES come into effect. You'll that even though I'm some what contained, and even have no vision advantage ( vikings ) I can still manage to break out. This player is 2350~



Really cool to see how sick +1 is.

Also holy **** 5+ TvT's in a row.. lame.

Cool. I've been thinking about something similar in PvP, but I'm not sure how much of a difference upgrades actually make in this matchup and I'm to lazy to actually calculate it. I remember you posted a link to some kind of charts for it, but can't find it.

I'm so sick of PvPs. 50% of it is cheese either by me or by opponent, or both lol. The rest is a lottery between 4 gate, 3 gate robo, blink stalkers and DT rushes. And it seems like whatever I do my opponent does exactly a build that counters it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
just played a practice match that lasted over an hour







but I guess the slower game speed was one of the causes...

what's the longest league match you guys have seen?

I was surprised watching the replay my apm almost hit 200 at one point, I thought I was probably doing like 5 to 10 things a minute still being a newbie and all









200 apm on slower is around 80 on faster.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm convinced this MMR **** is completely ****ed up. How is that every 2200-2400 player has the same MMR, or worse MMR than me? I've just lost 5 games in a row to players higher than me in that range that I was "favored" against. Just lost another 50 ****ing points. Also these people I'm playing are generally just crushing me, and to be perfectly honest I haven't done well in sometime... why is my MMR so high? I'm telling you guys this system is broken or I some how am worse.

As long as you're playing players ranked higher than you it means that you're improving. Also they might have just played more games thus have higher points or be on a losing streak so their mmr drops.

It may also be that the level of uncertainty is high for your mmr. So for example you mmr is 2200 but with 200 points deviation, which means that you'll play against players from 2000 to 2400.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=165344

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
True, same with the difference between high diamond and pros









I'd say if someone is in the top 200 in a region, and in this case even in the top 100, he's pretty damn close to the pros.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Instant APM doesn't mean anything.

Well, not entirely true. It's true that instant means nothing in general but APM is really important during a battle and being able to have a high APM there(instant) is definitely important







Personally, I place more emphasis on average APM and only look at my instant APM during a battle. I still feel that mine is pretty low at 75 but not worried since it'll go up with practice









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
I'm convinced this MMR **** is completely ****ed up. How is that every 2200-2400 player has the same MMR, or worse MMR than me? I've just lost 5 games in a row to players higher than me in that range that I was "favored" against. Just lost another 50 ****ing points. Also these people I'm playing are generally just crushing me, and to be perfectly honest I haven't done well in sometime... why is my MMR so high? I'm telling you guys this system is broken or I some how am worse.

I'm not sure how MMR is determined other than what we've been given but why is it that you think you are worse than them? Because you lost to them? It's quite possible that their strat and unit combo was just superior to yours, but, that doesn't indicate that they are better players. Also, your MMR isn't going to fall down so fast because you've already played so many games and it's somewhat stable now(with very little uncertainty).

It's the same as what was mentioned by someone on SC2 forums. If you played a couple of hundred games and are stuck in bronze, chances are it's going to take a TON of games to move your MMR and get you promoted to silver or higher. Personally, I'm pretty confident that the system is working decently because I'm facing opponents on my level, even though some of them have 800+ points and several hundred games more than me


----------



## thiru

It's entirely true. Instant APM just means you clicked lots of times in the space of a few seconds. It means nothing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's entirely true. Instant APM just means you clicked lots of times in the space of a few seconds. It means nothing.

If me and you are going at it, you having a higher APM at that moment is a good thing because it means you can lay down some quick ff's, use GS, focus fire your stalkers at my roaches, lay down a storm at my muta blob, etc.... My point is during a battle, instant APM or at least the avg APM during that battle is important because it determines how many different actions you can perform when the battle took place. You can seriously tell me that there is no difference between someone having an APM of 50 and another of 100 during a battle when battles are very quick and actions on your part can make a difference(ff at ramp for example)?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm so sick of PvPs. 50% of it is cheese either by me or by opponent, or both lol. The rest is a lottery between 4 gate, 3 gate robo, blink stalkers and *DT rushes*. And it seems like whatever I do my opponent does exactly a build that counters it.

As long as you're playing players ranked higher than you it means that you're improving. Also they might have just played more games thus have higher points or be on a losing streak so their mmr drops.

It may also be that the level of uncertainty is high for your mmr. So for example you mmr is 2200 but with 200 points deviation, which means that you'll play against players from 2000 to 2400.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=165344

I'd say if someone is in the top 200 in a region, and in this case even in the top 100, he's pretty damn close to the pros.

I actually tried that DT rush although I placed a pylon in the corner of my opponent's base in a PvsP custom game. I kept wraping in dts and took out all his probes at his main along with half of his main base







Eventually, he found the pylon but it was soo much fun to do. Of course, after taking it down, he decided to attack and well, I lost







As for PvsP, well, then don't cheese your opponent. I guess the question becomes, is putting a pylon in or near your opponent's main base cheese? Personally, I see it as a strategic move to make use of wrapgates or to get some vision into his base









MMR isn't the same as points and just because someone has higher points than you doesn't mean a higher MMR. I think that's the main post he's missing or keeps on forgetting







As for the ranking, well maybe top 200 or 100, then yes, he's close, but, there is still a large amount of diamond players, so, most aren't pro level or close to it


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
lol, I guess not







Macro is so important, it's pretty much affects whether you win or lose, because, if your macro is bad, it means that you won't have the resources to make the required amount of units to defend or attack your opponent. Really, I guess the best rule there would be to constantly make workers for the first couple of minutes and continue doing so as the game progresses, although, make sure to not go crazy with worker production.

Never EVER panic, because, once you lose control of yourself, the game is over. Just macro at the start, while scouting and building structures. Slowly add in units as you monitor what your opponent is doing while tech up, upgrading and making workers. Once your opponent is ready to move up, start making more units and engage them. Having the right unit composition really helps in the engagement due to counters and such.

As for the name, well, I read something like cramps or so when we had that last yesterday so that's what stuck with me, lol









I need a practice partner...either on PTR or Main server I dun care >_< halp me improve...so far I've got the build orders for the first 6 minutes...after that all hell breaks loose.

I've been trying to internalize Day9's stuff but it's pretty hard w/o practice.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...omDash/matches

I'm going to bed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
I need a practice partner...either on PTR or Main server I dun care >_< halp me improve...so far I've got the build orders for the first 6 minutes...after that all hell breaks loose.

I've been trying to internalize Day9's stuff but it's pretty hard w/o practice.

Well, I don't mind helping you practice at all, just add me using my info and when I get onto SC2, send me a message and I'll add you. We can get a couple of custom games rolling then and you can work on your macro while defending and harassing as well. If I'm on the PTR, then i usually visit the overclock.net channel, so, if you are there, I'll add you then(I think I already added you though). TBH, I've never watched a single day9 episode ever. I started watching one of the episodes where he has HuK getting a carrier very quickly into a game against a T on blistering sands but after Huk got the carrier before the T was able to tear his base apart, T retreated and I stopped there and never looked back









As for BOs, personally I don't follow a specific one as in at the start, I go for 15 hatch 14 pool, then I start adding other structures(extractors, bane nest, roach warren, etc....) as I see fit, so, I get a starting point then change the order of structures based on my experience, my strat and what I think would benefit me the most in that specific matchup. Personally, while I think BOs are important, one needs to be flexible and imagine if I'm practicing the same BO only to go up against an opponent that has a BO that directly counters mine. The result? I lose and I've just spent so much time practicing the same BO, not a bad thing but being flexible is very important in any RTS, especially SC2









I can tell you that macro was a huge problem for me as well. As a Z player, I would expand early to get gas but never place as much as a single drone on minerals. I would also start making units instead of getting more workers before blostering my forces. Not a great idea, but, I was worried about early harass and not having enough units to prevent a quick loss. I've since worked on that and that game I had against thiru the other night, had something like 56 workers which I would say is good for 2 bases(think 70 is ideal for 3 bases)







Anyways, next time i'm on(maybe later tonight), send me a message and we can get a couple of games going


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...omDash/matches

I'm going to bed.

You can't be serious, that many losses for you







Well, on the bright side, winning some matches evened out your losses, since, with the bonus pool, you need two losses for every win so that you are on equal points. Also, you are above 2k, so, at least you reached your first goal, now time for 2.5k, lol. I'm thinking of going on now for a game or two, up for a game?

@CramComplex I might jump on for a game now









Edit: Also wondering, how are you able to play 23 games in a day?







Of course, this doesn't even include any other games since match history once displays so many matches(23 slots)


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm so sick of PvPs. 50% of it is cheese either by me or by opponent, or both lol. The rest is a lottery between 4 gate, 3 gate robo, blink stalkers and DT rushes. And it seems like whatever I do my opponent does exactly a build that counters it.

Actually Ive had some pretty good PvPs lately without one base all-ins. I think Ive been proxy 2 gated 2-3 times the last month though which Ive lost. I almost never lose to a 4 gate though even if Im teching or getting a FE.

Try 2 gate/stargate next time in PvP. It's so underrated I think.


----------



## BigFan

@CramComplex SC2 froze so I had to force it to close. I'll try to be back on later tonight for a game or two but not 100% positive. BTW, great game, but, had I had those banes ready when you attacked the first time, your MM would've never taken down my main. I think you should vary your composition a bit. Once you saw I had banes, going heavy on marines is a bad idea even if you have a lot, because, all it'll take is for me to run some slings at you then flood you with blings to completely neutralize your whole force. You saw me do that a couple of times in our matches even to the point where you lost your mass marines very fast while I suffered minor casualties. Banes hard counter marines, so, adding some thors into the mix would've also helped due to their large hp and huge air range







It's pretty funny how bad my bane bombing went though, forgot that I have to click on each OL seperately to unload XD


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
I need a practice partner...either on PTR or Main server I dun care >_< halp me improve...so far I've got the build orders for the first 6 minutes...after that all hell breaks loose.

I've been trying to internalize Day9's stuff but it's pretty hard w/o practice.

Build orders should really only be used up until about the 6-7 minute mark to be honest. You should always have a mid-late game plan when following build orders though, depending on what your opponent does of course.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
@CramComplex SC2 froze so I had to force it to close. I'll try to be back on later tonight for a game or two but not 100% positive. BTW, great game, but, had I had those banes ready when you attacked the first time, your MM would've never taken down my main. I think you should vary your composition a bit. Once you saw I had banes, going heavy on marines is a bad idea even if you have a lot, because, all it'll take is for me to run some slings at you then flood you with blings to completely neutralize your whole force. You saw me do that a couple of times in our matches even to the point where you lost your mass marines very fast while I suffered minor casualties. Banes hard counter marines, so, adding some thors into the mix would've also helped due to their large hp and huge air range







It's pretty funny how bad my bane bombing went though, forgot that I have to click on each OL seperately to unload XD

Yeah...by that time my brain was numb...like I was on automatic...spamming AAAAA forgetting I had D's and a factory with armory...never thought thors were a counter for speedbanes too...was banking on the fact that I had a few tanks to take them out...was more concerened with mutas at that time...man those banes eat through marines like butter...GGs anyway...saved the replay so I can see what I did wrong...

Your bane drop was effective and took out all my SCVs


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mwarren* 
Build orders should really only be used up until about the 6-7 minute mark to be honest. You should always have a mid-late game plan when following build orders though, depending on what your opponent does of course.

Hmm...alright...I am a counter player so I need to scout ahead or if he's on aggression I need to counter it...I usually don't have any mid-game or late-game plan...but as far as mid-game goes i usually go MDMT or MMT but it really depends on what the opponent is doing too


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
Yeah...by that time my brain was numb...like I was on automatic...spamming AAAAA forgetting I had D's and a factory with armory...never thought thors were a counter for speedbanes too...was banking on the fact that I had a few tanks to take them out...was more concerened with mutas at that time...man those banes eat through marines like butter...GGs anyway...saved the replay so I can see what I did wrong...

Your *bane drop* was effective and took out all my SCVs

Pretty much, banes hard counter marines like crazy. I had over 9k minerals and several k gas when you attacked the first time, so, I would've been able to throw slings at you all night long if I wanted to. Did I mention I had 5 hatcheries? XD
As for the bane drop, well, I wanted to drop into your main but the turrets+barely any SCVs made me move them into your exp which had a TON of SCVs, lol. SCV heaven







I made the drop but I had to attend to my base, so, i didn't see the result. Nice to know I got all your SCVs though XD It's the first time I tried a bane drop so at least it partially worked


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Pretty much, banes hard counter marines like crazy. I had over 9k minerals and several k gas when you attacked the first time, so, I would've been able to throw slings at you all night long if I wanted to. Did I mention I had 5 hatcheries? XD
As for the bane drop, well, I wanted to drop into your main but the turrets+barely any SCVs made me move them into your exp which had a TON of SCVs, lol. SCV heaven







I made the drop but I had to attend to my base, so, i didn't see the result. Nice to know I got all your SCVs though XD It's the first time I tried a bane drop so at least it partially worked









Yup i saw them with scans...that's why i took the left expo...i guess you never dropped my other expo on the island LOL well I guess I should be more careful of unit composition and timings...


----------



## Mwarren

Come on Cram where you at







.


----------



## vdek

This was a fun game against an 1800 point diamond player. He tries to go all-in with thor/helion/tanks and SCVs. I on the other hand go for a 11 pool 18 hatch build with roach/ling and some mutas to harass.

Still stuck in Platinum league though =[

This was also a good game, guy was a sore loser though...


Nydus > Medivacs


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 

Abandon practice games.

okay, I got placed into silver I think, 3/5 wins, got owned by cheese once


----------



## CramComplex

@MWarren...what a stalemate...everything was 3/3...now THAT was a LONG game...58 minutes total...


----------



## Mwarren

Yea that was crazy. Long games wear me out especially at night.


----------



## CramComplex

@MWarren: my SC2 crashed when i tried to save my replay...reported the bug to Blizz...i think that's it for to day for me playing...now off to the chat channel...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
Yup i saw them with scans...that's why i took the left expo...i guess you never dropped my other expo on the island LOL well I guess I should be more careful of unit composition and timings...

Yes, I knew that you knew about my 2nd exp using scan and you were going to head there soon after hitting my main which is why I put up all those spine crawlers+banes with some roaches for defense. My biggest mistake was not teching to BLs and along with mutas against your vikings and slings+blings on the ground, then I would've ruled that game easily, but, I see to have a problem with getting tier 3 as a Z player


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
okay, I got placed into silver I think, 3/5 wins, got owned by cheese once









That's fine, losing to cheese isn't bad. With time, you'll learn about all the different kinds of cheese and how to defeat them with the race you are playing with, just give it time. Now just play more games, learn all you can about your race and master it. Practice Practice Practice!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
@MWarren...what a stalemate...everything was 3/3...now THAT was a LONG game...58 minutes total...

Well, from experience, long games might be long but they are such fun as well. I had a game over an hour and another 30min game back to back with banded and they were a lot of fun. I loved the 2nd more because I wasn't turtling and actually stagged some attacks and had some fun with some strats









I love the graph in this thread especially where Idra is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=3


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Yes, I knew that you knew about my 2nd exp using scan and you were going to head there soon after hitting my main which is why I put up all those spine crawlers+banes with some roaches for defense. My biggest mistake was not teching to BLs and along with mutas against your vikings and slings+blings on the ground, then I would've ruled that game easily, but, I see to have a problem with getting tier 3 as a Z player









True...I was wondering why you didn't have BL's by that time...then again I wonder why you haven't steam-rolled me LOL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
True...I was wondering why you didn't have BL's by that time...then again *I wonder why you haven't steam-rolled me* LOL









I'm sooo slow teching to tier 3 it's ridiculous. All my games were won with sticking to a combo of slings+banes+roaches+mutas regardless if my opponent was T/P/Z. I think I won 2 games with BLs and ultras because my opponent turtled and it was the only way to break down his defense, otherwise, I've always used those same 4 units. I think because it takes so long to tech to tier 3 as a Z and I'm usually harassed during my games, so, I spend some money on my army instead of teching, but, since, my macro has really improved recently, I'll be forcing myself to tech to tier 3 whenever I get Z regardless if it costs me the game because getting ultras or BLs will make life easier when dealing with mass thors. I had an opponent make 7-8 of them and attack my base. Well, I just went mass roaches+slings. I won the battle, but, lost a ton of roaches and most of my slings. He quit right after that









As for why I didn't steam-roll you, lol, I was trying to baneling bomb your mineral line because I haven't done it before and always wanted to try, so, I guess it was partially that I was experimenting around and I was just macroing hard. While the baneling bombing accomplished it's goal, it cost me the game, because, those banes were supposed to be incase you went for MMM. Always a good idea to plan ahead







Although, I'll make you a promise. I'll steam-roll you next time we have a rematch


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Although, I'll make you a promise. I'll steam-roll you next time we have a rematch









can't wait!


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZ70BzMToU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEL_SJs4JDc

Oh man, honestly, whoever is casting needs a better computer...

You should give him your old GPU.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah he does. I had some other games casted on youtube in a beta tournament and they were just as ****ty quality. I actually really like this guys casting though he's pretty funny.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Who's the caster? Nvrtheless it's great to see.


----------



## thiru

It's pretty cool that you got casted


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's pretty cool that you got casted









Very.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Who's the caster? Nvrtheless it's great to see.

He's from StarcraftArena another forum I regular at.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZ70BzMToU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEL_SJs4JDc

do you ever go double barracks/armory for faster upgrades? or just make a massive +1 attack army?


----------



## yks

up for some practice games?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
do you ever go double barracks/armory for faster upgrades? or just make a massive +1 attack army?

in TvP / TvZ more often.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss players, blinker ect: Get fast+1 armor vs Terran... Zealots are so much better its not even funny.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CramComplex* 
@MWarren: my SC2 crashed when i tried to save my replay...reported the bug to Blizz...i think that's it for to day for me playing...now off to the chat channel...

I still have the replays if you want me to upload them.


----------



## DoomDash

It's amazing how people have a stick in their a$$ over Starcraft II. If you are considered the top dog in anything people on the bottom are always going to be trying to knock your feet out from under you ( dissing , saying it sucks ect ). I feel the same way about many things.

http://www.overclock.net/11620696-post42.html


----------



## thiru

Don't mind that dude he hates every single developer except the guys who made the Witcher and Dawn of War 2.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Don't mind that dude he hates every single developer except the guys who made the Witcher and Dawn of War 2.


Well, Relic and CDProjekt _are_ quiet amazing after all.


----------



## Gigalisk

So, i guess with this new patch that they put out, they added the ability to add rooms into bnet for public chat...can we expect that there will be an OCN B.Net room? Let me know, thanks!


----------



## DoomDash

yeah I sometimes idle @ overclock.net

When the patch is real I will try and keep it alive.


----------



## Katana

Fun story: In a recent game, I had my entire base decimated by cloaked banshees. I had built turrets in anticipation, but they weren't enough. As my base gets blown up and the opponent congratulates me on a good game...I am mad. Determined not to lose just yet, I go to one of my expanded bases (one somewhat close to his base) and tell my masses of SCVs to build. Just *build*. Starports, Factories, and of course a venerable army of turrets (I had been badly micromanaging my buildings and had a stockpile of resources to waste). By the end of it there were certain advanced buildings I couldn't build anymore, because he had destroyed the prerequisites at my base (had to quickly get an engineering bay if I wanted more turrets!). With this set up, I made sure I was gonna be ready when his banshees finally found me. I was. We actually went back into a stalemate for some time, with me having cleaned off much more of the map's resources than he did, and a big fight over a rich mineral stockpile right near his base, consisting of a lot of precise usage of small groups.

I wish I could say there was an epic ending to it all, but it was something more like this.

Him: Awesome game man, but I actually have to head to work now.
You: Oh, wow. Glad I gave you a run for your money, but sorry you have to lose like that.
(Your opponent has surrendered)
YOU WIN!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

relic ****ed up daw of war 2. My friend works for relic and worked on the game. I gave him so much flack even the problems wasn't really his fault. But so disappointed in that game.


----------



## Mwarren

DoomDash, whats you're BO for TvP if you dont mind telling me? Right now I open 3 rax and I normally transfer into stargate for medivacs/vikings, then expo if they stick to gateway units. But getting up their ramp seems to be the hardest part. I'm thinking about just floating in a rax before I push up, as a decoy to distract them so I can go up there FF free.


----------



## DoomDash

So "master league" is officially top 5% of Diamond. I was worried I wouldn't make it after this horrible week. Still, I do need to step up my game. Someone get qxc to train me.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


DoomDash, whats you're BO for TvP if you dont mind telling me? Right now I open 3 rax and I normally transfer into stargate for medivacs/vikings, then expo if they stick to gateway units. But getting up their ramp seems to be the hardest part. I'm thinking about just floating in a rax before I push up, as a decoy to distract them so I can go up there FF free.


I either do 3 rax 2 tech lab 1 reactor, into ghosts ( push / expand ), into viking / medivac. If you see colossus earlier you may need to throw down a factory / port before expanding ( if they are 1 base colossus rushing ).

Or you can check out my TvP thor push here:
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So "master league" is officially top 5% of Diamond. I was worried I wouldn't make it after this horrible week. Still, I do need to step up my game. Someone get qxc to train me.


That's it, just the top 50%? Meh. Did they mention when they'll be implementing it? I'm planning on doing a big push into the Masters League when they introduce it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


That's it, just the top 50%? Meh. Did they mention when they'll be implementing it? I'm planning on doing a big push into the Masters League when they introduce it.


5% not 50%.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


5% not 50%.


That's better, still planning on pushing into it though ^_^


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So "master league" is officially top 5% of Diamond. I was worried I wouldn't make it after this horrible week. Still, I do need to step up my game. Someone get qxc to train me.

I either do 3 rax 2 tech lab 1 reactor, into ghosts ( push / expand ), into viking / medivac. If you see colossus earlier you may need to throw down a factory / port before expanding ( if they are 1 base colossus rushing ).

Or you can check out my TvP thor push here:
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0


Thanks, I think I'll transfer into Ghosts for now on before expanding. Those EMPS do hella damage.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


yeah I sometimes idle @ overclock.net

When the patch is real I will try and keep it alive.


I can definitely help you with that when i get back to Okinawa. Question: SC2, does it have an Idle time?


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


As my base gets blown up and the opponent congratulates me on a good game...I am mad.


Oh man that angers me so badly!! I just rage out and then just do my best to hammer them into the ground.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


I can definitely help you with that when i get back to Okinawa. Question: SC2, does it have an Idle time?


Not that I know of.


----------



## Kaoz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Make sure to put your code as well, otherwise, no one will be able to add you









Fixed it hehe thanx







. Such a noob lol







Verd / 997


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yks* 
up for some practice games?

Do my eyes deceive me?
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Very.
He's from StarcraftArena another forum I regular at.

Interesting that you are got casted









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana* 
Fun story: In a recent game, I had my entire base decimated by cloaked banshees. I had built turrets in anticipation, but they weren't enough. As my base gets blown up and the opponent congratulates me on a good game...I am mad. Determined not to lose just yet, I go to one of my expanded bases (one somewhat close to his base) and tell my masses of SCVs to build. Just *build*. Starports, Factories, and of course a venerable army of turrets (I had been badly micromanaging my buildings and had a stockpile of resources to waste). By the end of it there were certain advanced buildings I couldn't build anymore, because he had destroyed the prerequisites at my base (had to quickly get an engineering bay if I wanted more turrets!). With this set up, I made sure I was gonna be ready when his banshees finally found me. I was. We actually went back into a stalemate for some time, with me having cleaned off much more of the map's resources than he did, and a big fight over a rich mineral stockpile right near his base, consisting of a lot of precise usage of small groups.

I wish I could say there was an epic ending to it all, but it was something more like this.

Him: Awesome game man, but I actually have to head to work now.
You: Oh, wow. Glad I gave you a run for your money, but sorry you have to lose like that.
(Your opponent has surrendered)
YOU WIN!

Nice. Mass banshee is quite strong but the fact they only attack ground makes them vulnerable without vikings, bcs, some marines for air units, etc....









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
So "master league" is officially top 5% of Diamond. I was worried I wouldn't make it after this horrible week. Still, I do need to step up my game. Someone get qxc to train me.

I either do 3 rax 2 tech lab 1 reactor, into ghosts ( push / expand ), into viking / medivac. If you see colossus earlier you may need to throw down a factory / port before expanding ( if they are 1 base colossus rushing ).

Or you can check out my TvP thor push here:
http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=18240.0

5% of diamond, hmm, still sounds too high, although I guess the diamond league is pretty small and they wanted to make sure that they have a certain amount of people in there. The only problem I see is that this will create more elitism for people who are in the master league, however, it'll at least kill the elitist attitude of some diamond players









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gigalisk* 
I can definitely help you with that when i get back to Okinawa. Question: SC2, does it have an Idle time?

Does it really matter? I mean you can always recreate the overclock.net channel. Infact, I have it listed in my channels list and just click on it everytime I log into PTR









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaoz* 
Fixed it hehe thanx







. Such a noob lol







Verd / 997

np


----------



## ThumperSD

Top 5% of diamond is pretty hard to get into. I think that's equivalent to current 2500+ diamonds.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Top 5% of diamond is pretty hard to get into. I think that's equivalent to current 2500+ diamonds.

I'm pretty confident that anyone who really puts the effort into trying to get into diamond will, same with this master league, although, it's much tougher to get into due to the increase of skill the higher you go up the scale


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea it's definitely for ladder grinders


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Top 5% of diamond is pretty hard to get into. I think that's equivalent to current 2500+ diamonds.

I'll be in 1v1 and 2v2R







.

On a side note: I've been getting my ass kicked from 2700+'s.

Bonus pools helps a lot. I don't even have 160 wins in 1v1 yet.

I think we should bring back the overclock.net gathering on battle.net for the weekends.


----------



## ThumperSD

Are they having Master's league for team games as well?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Are they having Master's league for team games as well?

Was going to ask the same question but my answer will likely be no, I think it's only for 1vs1. Don't see the reason for team games


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Actually Ive had some pretty good PvPs lately without one base all-ins. I think Ive been proxy 2 gated 2-3 times the last month though which Ive lost. I almost never lose to a 4 gate though even if Im teching or getting a FE.

Try 2 gate/stargate next time in PvP. It's so underrated I think.

I'm not sure. I assume that would auto-lose to 4 gate, DTs and blink stalkers. May be viable against blind colossus rush, but with scouting after going 3 gate robo you can still cut on colossi and mass stalkers which should win against this.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
5% of diamond, hmm, still sounds too high, although I guess the diamond league is pretty small and they wanted to make sure that they have a certain amount of people in there. The only problem I see is that this will create more elitism for people who are in the master league, however, it'll at least kill the elitist attitude of some diamond players









Makes sense given how much of a skill difference there is between the average diamond and the top. That's about top 2000 players per region.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I'll be in 1v1 and 2v2R







.

On a side note: I've been getting my ass kicked from 2700+'s.

Bonus pools helps a lot. I don't even have 160 wins in 1v1 yet.

I think we should bring back the overclock.net gathering on battle.net for the weekends.

Would you mind posting some of your replays, especially PvZ? Can be even 4 gates for all I care, I just want to see some games when protoss wins the damn matchup.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poroboszcz* 
I'm not sure. I assume that would auto-lose to 4 gate, DTs and blink stalkers. May be viable against blind colossus rush, but with scouting after going 3 gate robo you can still cut on colossi and mass stalkers which should win against this.

Ive actually held off most 4 gates with 2gate/stargate. The key is FF. Try not to reveal your VRs until you really have to. Blink stalkers and DTs counter this build but Ive had success against blink stalkers with this build as well. They cant do much if you have zealots surrounding your VRs. You basically have to out micro him. And if your opponent blindly goes 2gate/robo(colossi), you will hit him by the time he sees your VRs which will not give him enough time to cancel colossi and mass stalkers. Remember that your opponent will not attack until he gets at least one colossus (usually 2-3). Timing is everything in this game. Somebody used this against me with great success so Ive been going with the same build some some variations.

DT rush works great against this build if you do not find it in time. The game might end up being a base race. Ive had a base race where Ive went for a 2gate/carrier rush. I was foolish to build my robo bay out in the open; I shouldve hidden it as I would have won that game.

Blink stalkers also have a slight advantage over this build but it really comes down to micro. You will still have 2 gates to support your VRs. But it can be beaten with 2gate/stargate if you use micro and position to your advantage.

2gate/stargate is by far the most underused opening build in PvP in platinum and diamond IMO. It's also great because most of the time your opponents will not expect it. Protoss usually go for 3/4 gates or 2/3gate & robo. It counters 2gate/robo very easily.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigFan* 
Was going to ask the same question but my answer will likely be no, I think it's only for 1vs1. Don't see the reason for team games









Why wouldn't there be? It makes sense to me. Further seperation of all the leagues will ensure even competitive play. Any link to confirm or deny this?

Edit: 1500th post







.


----------



## Twistacles

There shouldn't be grand-master league for team games.
It just doesn't take nearly the same amount of skill, just a lucky cheese


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twistacles* 
There shouldn't be grand-master league for team games.
It just doesn't take nearly the same amount of skill, just a lucky cheese

I agree with the grand master's league, but I think there should be a master's league for team games.

There is plenty of cheese going around in 1v1 too







. Imo competitive play goes 1v1 > 2v2 > 3v3 > 4v4.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cory1234* 
I agree with the grand master's league, but I think there should be a master's league for team games.

There is plenty of cheese going around in 1v1 too







. Imo competitive play goes 1v1 > 2v2 > 3v3 > 4v4.

It's more like
1v1 has some pretty dumb allins
2v2 many many stupid insta-win t1 pushes. (Reaper6pool before patch)
3v3 is borderline completely ******ed
4v4 is balls to the wall stupid, no skill involved


----------



## ThumperSD

cheesing takes skillz


----------



## BigFan

^^lol, it actually takes some skills to cheese well









If anyone is up for a game, going to be on in approximately 10 minutes


----------



## DoomDash

Top 5% is not nearly as high as you guys think. No where near around 2500, that's over kill. But the problem with Master league is once its out everyone will be racing there. Also we have to figure out if you get there by MMR or not, and if its the same way the top 200 system works.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169830


----------



## ThumperSD

Then 5% would be equal to 2000+? That doesnt seem so hard to get into then. I thought top 200 was based entirely on points and not MMR.


----------



## DoomDash

I'd have to re-read that but from what I thought: If Top 5% is MMR + division modifiers being in my S class division is quite an advantage! But so far we can only assume how it works.


----------



## ThumperSD

I wouldnt think that you'd be stuck in the same division after the reset. I could be wrong though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
I wouldnt think that you'd be stuck in the same division after the reset. I could be wrong though.

I think you are correct, but, we're going to have to wait and see


----------



## DoomDash

I would miss my division.

Wow I really hate the MM. Last 5 losses 4/5 I'm favored ( -15 - -16 points lost average ). Last 4 wins in a row I'm slightly favored again, +18 per win for all 4 WITH bonus pool against again 2300~ players. I hate losing a ton being slightly favored, and winning jack for it as well.


----------



## Katana

Grah, I'm fed up with going into games and getting killed by 80 void rays at once. They're supposed to only be good against big, stronger units, but seem to decimate everything; even hydralisks.


----------



## DoomDash

Start playing more 1v1 then







.


----------



## Katana

Okay. What am I supposed to do differently in 1v1? Attack when he only has 40?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana* 
Grah, I'm fed up with going into games and getting killed by 80 void rays at once. They're supposed to only be good against big, stronger units, but seem to decimate everything; even hydralisks.

Personally, I prefer mutas. Besides, if this is a 1vs1 game, then your opponent should never be able to get 80 VRs. If he is massing them, I like to fly in with some muta, take a couple out before charging and quickly fly out. Rinse and repeat to take the rest out then go in. In team games though, I've seen opponent mass VRs or mass some T2-T3 unit and just A-move. Mass VRs are hard to stop without your own mass VRs


----------



## vdek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana* 
Okay. What am I supposed to do differently in 1v1? Attack when he only has 40?

Don't let him get 40. Mutas are good against Void rays too, but you gotta be careful for Phoenix.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vdek* 
Don't let him get 40. Mutas are good against Void rays too, but you gotta be careful for Phoenix.

True, however, most who mass VRs don't get phoenixes


----------



## DoomDash

I've never seen more than 6 void rays in 1v1 ever.


----------



## EmMure

big fan games|?


----------



## DoomDash

I totally ****ed someones proxy gates up ( while I was originally trying to fast expand ). Guy had almost 3k ladder games played.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmMure* 
big fan games|?

Sure


----------



## DoomDash

I have a TvZ build in my head I should make work.


----------



## vdek

nvm tired....


----------



## BigFan

Just had a crazy 2vs2 game with EmMure. It was T(me)/Z(EmMure) against T/Z. It was the longest game I've had to date coming in at 1 hour and 20min. It started the usual way, good macro, etc... but, then I decided to do a lot of different types of harass on my opponent and well that continued throughout the game. Really felt sorry for them as well







This game had everything. I mean banshee harass, nukes, ghosts, ravens+seeker missiles, battlecrusiers, MMT, hydras, nydus worms, etc.... There were no BLs or ultras, but, thank God for that otherwise, I can only imagine what I would've been up against because our opponents expanded earlier than we did and took more bases around the map. I think lack of air units at the start was their main downfall, same with teching up too late or never in some cases







Also, I think we almost mined out most of the map as well








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...scorched-haven
Pretty sure someone will mention this, so, I'll state it first. Macro was horrible later in game, exp too late, should've pushed out much sooner with MMT, needed more upgrades


----------



## DoomDash

bnet is down if you log off.


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg has a weak late game guys, you saw it here first:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=176522


----------



## yks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomDash* 
Zerg has a weak late game guys, you saw it here first:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=176522

Some people are silly.


----------



## DoomDash

How do you guys feel about macro keys? When I get my new keyboard I was thinking of setting the macro buttons on the left to be keys 8-0 so I can easily control more groups of units ( against Z mostly ).

Does anyone know if Blizzard considered it cheating? I'm OK with it being not allowed in tournaments.


----------



## poroboszcz




DoomDash said:


> How do you guys feel about macro keys? When I get my new keyboard I was thinking of setting the macro buttons on the left to be keys 8-0 so I can easily control more groups of units ( against Z mostly ). Does anyone know if Blizzard considered it cheating? I'm OK with it being not allowed in tournaments.


 As far as I know (don't quote me though) you can get banned from bnet for using macros (eg. assigning 4s5aad to a macro key), but I'm not sure if it applies to simply rebinding single keys.


----------



## yks

i've read that for the extra macro keys, for sc2 the rule is 1 action per click.

so you can assign 1 macro key to press "0," but if you assign that 1 macro key to do "0+S+D" like it's your hatch, then that is a banable offense.


----------



## yks

Newegg tournament starts tomorrow on Tuesday, they seeded me #27 in Stage D.

Damn, I totally forgot about this. My opponent is seeded #230 as a RDM Bronze. Lets just hope I don't fail or that it's a smurf.


----------



## CramComplex

Hi guys...

So I was bored waiting for a client to send some assets for a project...and this happened.










Couldn't get the concussive shells icon exactly but for my POV it looks like it...or simmilar. In one of the Day9 casts I saw his shirt and I kinda said *** that's cool. So I just hacked up some images from the web and this is the result.

Anyway I hope y'all like it.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Newegg tournament starts tomorrow on Tuesday, they seeded me #27 in Stage D.

Damn, I totally forgot about this. My opponent is seeded #230 as a RDM Bronze. Lets just hope I don't fail or that it's a smurf.


:O I totally did not realize they were doing a tournament, just tried to register but it's too late =[


----------



## rhed5

Is the master league 5% of diamond or 5% of all users. 5% of all users seem very easy and attainable for most if they just work hard enough, however topp 5% of diamond will be very tough. Probably equal to 2700+ and will be hard to maintain with everyone eyeing to maintain their status.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Is the master league 5% of diamond or 5% of all users. 5% of all users seem very easy and attainable for most if they just work hard enough, however topp 5% of diamond will be very tough. Probably equal to 2700+ and will be hard to maintain with everyone eyeing to maintain their status.


It's probably the top 5% of diamond players. There are currently 52,000 diamond players in NA, so the top 5% is about 2600 players. Sounds good to me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Hi guys...

So I was bored waiting for a client to send some assets for a project...and this happened.

-snip-

Couldn't get the concussive shells icon exactly but for my POV it looks like it...or simmilar. In one of the Day9 casts I saw his shirt and I kinda said *** that's cool. So I just hacked up some images from the web and this is the result.

Anyway I hope y'all like it.


Nice and so true









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Zerg has a weak late game guys, you saw it here first:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=176522


lol. I disagree, Z late game is strong because if your macro is spot on, you can recreate your unit pretty fast. My only complaint against our late game is that BLs and ultras only attack ground units, we have no ground to air or air to air units unlike the carriers and BCs. However, this just means that the corruptors will be used instead against them


----------



## Nevaziah

Hey all, just had to post here because If you are on default settings, THIS IS POST PAGE 666








!!! mwahahahaha

Anyways, on a more serious note, I finaly hit 2000 Platinium. I know it doesnt mean much since I dont play a lot but hey, it was a goal for me.
Next step: Diamond!

- EDIT: and yes, Zerg late game is insane. Ever try to base trade as protoss or terran against a zerg? A protoss tried that against me once, I had 5 bases on shakuras plateau (whole left side so main at the north, its natural, 3rd next to natural, bottom base and its natural)

He took out the bottom base and its natural. I had enough time to take down ALL the bases on the right side AND come back to decimate his army before he could move back out of my south western base and into my north western starting base. The funny part is he killed almost ALL my drones on the bottom cause I had transfered most of em, and I didnt rebuild them, I just made more units to meet up with my main force coming back...









late game, I usually have something like 10 larvae on each hatchery cause i never stop dropping larvae even when I get maxed and whenever I get maxed and I have at least 750 to 1000 minerals&gaz, I just attack. I dont wait for my protoss/Terran buddy to get maxed, I dont question myselft I just attack, and rebuild my force. he may take down my whole army but If I kill at least 75% his force at a good enough distance from my hatcheries, I can rebuild it all in less than a few seconds and have it ready for when he thinks of counter attacking....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Hey all, just had to post here because If you are on default settings, THIS IS POST PAGE 666







!!! mwahahahaha

Anyways, on a more serious note, I finaly hit 2000 Platinium. I know it doesnt mean much since I dont play a lot but hey, it was a goal for me.
Next step: Diamond!


lol, nice notice. Congrats on 2k, but, not enough! Practice, practice, practice to diamond!









As for late game, one problem is that you seem to be forgetting the distance. I mean long maps such as Shakuras are fine but if you are playing on something like steppes, good luck rebuilding all your army before he arrives at your base. Nonetheless, with many hatcheries+stockpiled resources, rebuilding your army can be a snap


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, nice notice. Congrats on 2k, but, not enough! Practice, practice, practice to diamond!









As for late game, one problem is that you seem to be forgetting the distance. I mean long maps such as Shakuras are fine but if you are playing on something like steppes, good luck rebuilding all your army before he arrives at your base. Nonetheless, with many hatcheries+stockpiled resources, rebuilding your army can be a snap










Oh, trudat. But even on steppes, think about it. If you have your main, your natural and the base on the high ground, and you engage the terran either at HIS high ground or at his natural. Ever time ONE of your units die, you make another (say 3 roaches die, you make an ultra, 3 more die, you make 3 hydras, 10 lings die, you make 5 roaches etc.. By the time the fight is over AND he moves out, you should have a `better` army (or even an upgraded army).

It all depends on where you decide to engage too, but you`re right, usually once the terran or protoss is maxed on steppes, it gets a lot harder cause there really arent many ground routes you can take to their base. The terran can just leapfrog forever till they get to your expos. Good terran(and protoss) players will attack expos while defending theirs, so the attack route becomes slow but meticulous.

Thank god I play random, I get to learn from ANYTHING that is said about starcraft anywhere and I can see everything from all perspectives


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


It's probably the top 5% of diamond players. There are currently 52,000 diamond players in NA, so the top 5% is about 2600 players. Sounds good to me.


Where are you pulling the 52,000 Diamond players from in NA?

151,194 is the number sc2ranks gives me:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all//


----------



## Gigalisk

inb4667 w00t

So when does the real patch hit, and when it does, is the ladder going to reset, or will ther be a reset further down the road?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Where are you pulling the 52,000 Diamond players from in NA?

151,194 is the number sc2ranks gives me:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all//


From here: http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/us/diamond/1/all/points/52200


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, nice notice. Congrats on 2k, but, not enough! Practice, practice, practice to diamond!










Sounds funny from you. Why don't you move your lazy ass out of silver already?









Btw, you guys should watch one of the last daylies with Sen vs Incontrol, where day 9 talks exactly about this. 300 food zerg army and replacing units as they die into better army comp etc.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Oh, trudat. But even on steppes, think about it. If you have your main, your natural and the base on the high ground, and you engage the terran either at HIS high ground or at his natural. Ever time ONE of your units die, you make another (say 3 roaches die, you make an ultra, 3 more die, you make 3 hydras, 10 lings die, you make 5 roaches etc.. By the time the fight is over AND he moves out, you should have a `better` army (or even an upgraded army).

It all depends on where you decide to engage too, but you`re right, usually once the terran or protoss is maxed on steppes, it gets a lot harder cause there really arent many ground routes you can take to their base. The terran can just leapfrog forever till they get to your expos. Good terran(and protoss) players will attack expos while defending theirs, so the attack route becomes slow but meticulous.

Thank god I play random, I get to learn from ANYTHING that is said about starcraft anywhere and I can see everything from all perspectives










Which is why I always try to end the game early on against Zerg. When they get that third secured its pretty much GG.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Sounds funny from you. Why don't you move your lazy ass out of silver already?









Btw, you guys should watch one of the last daylies with Sen vs Incontrol, where day 9 talks exactly about this. 300 food zerg army and replacing units as they die into better army comp etc.


That happened in a previous game, after an engagement with a terran player I was left with about 5-6 roaches. However I had about 40 larva from my 5 hatcheries saved up ready to pump out an entire new army. Needless to say, I won.


----------



## Nevaziah




poroboszcz said:


> ... Btw, you guys should watch one of the last daylies with Sen vs Incontrol, where day 9 talks exactly about this. 300 food zerg army and replacing units as they die into better army comp etc.


 SEN vs INCONTROL game spoiler!


Spoiler



That`s actuallly where I saw the great example from. I dont remeber who the zerg is between the two but he made a few corruptors (5-7) and made em into broodlords, when the roaches died, he slowly went into hydraz, A FEW roaches and upped his broodlord count. Needless to say, HE won too


----------



## Mwarren




Nevaziah said:


> SEN vs INCONTROL game spoiler!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That`s actuallly where I saw the great example from. I dont remeber who the zerg is between the two but he made a few corruptors (5-7) and made em into broodlords, when the roaches died, he slowly went into hydraz, A FEW roaches and upped his broodlord count. Needless to say, HE won too


 I still say that not enough T players harass the mineral line playing against zerg. Hellions just completely rape drones/zergling and even banelings before speed. Reapers can take out tech buildings really well and roast drones too.


----------



## vdek




Mwarren said:


> I still say that not enough T players harass the mineral line playing against zerg. Hellions just completely rape drones/zergling and even banelings before speed. Reapers can take out tech buildings really well and roast drones too.


 Too true, I always keep one or two roaches near my mineral line because of this.


----------



## Mwarren




vdek said:


> Too true, I always keep one or two roaches near my mineral line because of this.


 Right when my opponent does that, I hit the front . lol


----------



## DoomDash

vdek said:


> From here: [URL=http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/us/d...ranks.com/ranks/us/diamond/1/all/points/52200[/quote[/URL]] Interesting wonder which is correct?


----------



## BigFan




Nevaziah said:


> Oh, trudat. But even on steppes, think about it. If you have your main, your natural and the base on the high ground, and you engage the terran either at HIS high ground or at his natural. Ever time ONE of your units die, you make another (say 3 roaches die, you make an ultra, 3 more die, you make 3 hydras, 10 lings die, you make 5 roaches etc.. By the time the fight is over AND he moves out, you should have a `better` army (or even an upgraded army). It all depends on where you decide to engage too, but you`re right, usually once the terran or protoss is maxed on steppes, it gets a lot harder cause *there really arent many ground routes you can take to their base*. The terran can just leapfrog forever till they get to your expos. Good terran(and protoss) players will attack expos while defending theirs, so the attack route becomes slow but meticulous. Thank god I play random, I get to learn from ANYTHING that is said about starcraft anywhere and I can see everything from all perspectives


 That's was my main point, less attack room and smaller distances, so, they might be able to take down an exp by the time your units hatch especially if you go for ultras, however, I do agree, with many hatcheries full of larvae+resources stockpiled, you can rebuild your army rather quick  That's why I'm also going random, get to learn about all the different strats and experience the game the way it's meant to be experienced! 


poroboszcz said:


> Sounds funny from you. Why don't you move your lazy ass out of silver already?


 :lachen: The thing is, I am working on that  Why not check my match history? Been getting a lot of practice from people here on OCN along with some ladder games in between but getting disconnected from ladder games where you've been able to defend against a cheese and can take the game is just annoying and make you lose points :/


----------



## vdek




DoomDash said:


> Interesting wonder which is correct?


 The one I linked might not be counting inactive players, ie after x amount of dayshours since last played.


----------



## DoomDash

*cough excuses * cough.


----------



## burwij




yks said:


> Newegg tournament starts tomorrow on Tuesday, they seeded me #27 in Stage D. Damn, I totally forgot about this. My opponent is seeded #230 as a RDM Bronze. Lets just hope I don't fail or that it's a smurf.


 I totally forgot about this too until I got the email last night. I can count on one hand the number of games I've played since Black Ops was released  I'm 48th in Stage A, up against a 1900 Protoss. Hopefully I can grind out a win while re-learning how to play, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Man, as much as I think banelings are a little too good right now, TvZ is probably the most brilliant match up in the game to me. I think that I do like banelings being in SCII after all, but I just think they need a slight radius, damage, or other reduction. Still, I really like how Terran has to fall back to his siege lines with stim ect. It's pretty cool. I feel like eventually if banelings are not adjusted Z's will figure out how to properly include infestors to FG any retreating units, and the match up will be completely broken. I know some try it, but not nearly enough. My upgrading recently is so improved! I really like my TvZ build now, and I have a pretty good FE vs Protoss ( so far ) on some maps.


----------



## DoomDash

I have some questions about the newegg tournament. I'm in B, and I'm listed before my opponent is. Does this mean I'm seeded higher? That's who picks the first map? Second, I can't find his code number anywhere. NVM found his code. Can't find his SN on sc2ranks though. His SN says "lilgamer1337" but I looked that up on sc2 ranks and it wasn't there.


----------



## poroboszcz

I thought you may be interested in a game I saw today. I was watching Antimage's stream and he played against terran on xelnaga. Protoss went for standard 2 gate robo after seeing what looked like banshees opening, while terran got a bunch of marines and some tanks before expanding. Once on two bases he got couple of ghosts and then went pure mech. He literally didn't make any bio units after early mid game and his late game composition was consisted mainly of thors, some tanks and a lot of hellions.

He made it work by constantly harassing with hellions, using a lot of scans to follow protoss army and moving into his mineral line with like 10 hellions as soon as there were no units around. At some point he killed pretty much all probes at 3 expansions and soon after won the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Find a replay







.

ok I found his info

kingbrokai

http://sc2ranks.com/us/1618177/KingBrokai


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11635753*
> I thought you may be interested in a game I saw today. I was watching Antimage's stream and he played against terran on xelnaga.


Arrrrgh, I tried playing as Xelnaga once and it was just so annoying. Takes so many damn resources to get a Collosulisk, though it is nice to see it plow through their massed units. So many of their abilities I still don't understand. PLUS you have to enter that stupid 50-digit code every time you want to play as them, and it doesn't even tell you whether you got it right.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Yes, I'm trolling. =p I know you mean the map, and I just felt like making a joke.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I win my newegg matches by forfeit







.


----------



## burwij

Same here lulz.

Hopefully yks can beat his Bronze opponent to complete the trifecta, fingers crossed









Edit: I think their website just exploded with everyone reporting forfeits at the same time, lol.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im glad I didnt sign up for the tourney. It's Finals week







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij;11635350*
> I totally forgot about this too until I got the email last night. I can count on one hand the number of games I've played since Black Ops was released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 48th in Stage A, up against a 1900 Protoss. Hopefully I can grind out a win while re-learning how to play, lol.


Tsk tsk.. you should have been on to practice against me in ZvP







. I havent even see you on once.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11639289*
> Im glad I didnt sign up for the tourney. It's Finals week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Tsk tsk.. you should have been on to practice against me in ZvP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I havent even see you on once.


Same here, although I am in group C. I hope my opponent shows up tomorrow night.

@Doomdash: I'm sure you would've won against that guy anyways







.

This is the first tourney I'm playing in a very long time.


----------



## ThumperSD

I remember observing you playing against some zerg in a best of 5 a few months ago in a tourney


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11635405*
> Man, as much as I think banelings are a little too good right now, TvZ is probably the most brilliant match up in the game to me. *I think that I do like banelings being in SCII after all*, but I just think they need a slight radius, damage, or other reduction.
> 
> Still, I really like how Terran has to fall back to his siege lines with stim ect. It's pretty cool. I feel like eventually if banelings are not adjusted Z's will figure out how to properly include infestors to FG any retreating units, and the match up will be completely broken. I know some try it, but not nearly enough.
> 
> My upgrading recently is so improved! I really like my TvZ build now, and I have a pretty good FE vs Protoss ( so far ) on some maps.


Seems like someone is having a change of heart







Having said that, I always assumed that you tried luring the banes into the tanks line of fire instead of direct engagement because you'll need foxer micro for that. I think the best thing I've seen against banes was when in GSL 3, I forgot who it is but a Z player tried to move banes to hit the workers, so, the T split up his workers so that you'll need two banes for each worker without others suffering any damage. At that point, Z player moved out of his base because he could take down his SCVs without losing most if not all his banes, very well done spreading and pretty smart








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11635753*
> I thought you may be interested in a game I saw today. I was watching Antimage's stream and he played against terran on xelnaga. Protoss went for standard 2 gate robo after seeing what looked like banshees opening, while terran got a bunch of marines and some tanks before expanding. Once on two bases he got couple of ghosts and then went pure mech. He literally didn't make any bio units after early mid game and his late game composition was consisted mainly of thors, some tanks and a lot of hellions.
> 
> He made it work by constantly harassing with hellions, using a lot of scans to follow protoss army and moving into his mineral line with like 10 hellions as soon as there were no units around. At some point he killed pretty much all probes at 3 expansions and soon after won the game.


Interesting use of unit combinations








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11637866*
> Looks like I win my newegg matches by forfeit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij;11638006*
> Same here lulz.
> 
> Hopefully yks can beat his Bronze opponent to complete the trifecta, fingers crossed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I think their website just exploded with everyone reporting forfeits at the same time, lol.


darn my luck, had I entered, I would've probably gotten a forfeit as well(JK), but, either way, I would've had to forfeit since I had work :/


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I remember observing you playing against some zerg in a best of 5 a few months ago in a tourney


Last 2 tournaments I played won one, and then had to forfeit one in the finals b/c I had to leave in the other. (Not to say that I'm good







, they were small tourneys







) What part of Cali do you live in? I'm moving near San Diego in the Spring.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im in sunny SD








. What do you have planned for out here? School?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Same here, although I am in group C. I hope my opponent shows up tomorrow night.

@Doomdash: I'm sure you would've won against that guy anyways







.

This is the first tourney I'm playing in a very long time.


I know







.

Man I can't wait till Master League. I will just ****ing grind ladder.

Next Newegg opponent is an 1800+ Diamond Z. Hopefully I'll squash the dirty Z player.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Interesting use of unit combinations










The thing is that presumably metal is not viable against protoss but it worked really well this game.


----------



## Twistacles

You're in the newegg tourny too? Maybe well meet up in the upper brackets. My first opponent was a 1100 Zerg, lol. I beat him going random


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


You're in the newegg tourny too? Maybe well meet up in the upper brackets. My first opponent was a 1100 Zerg, lol. I beat him going random










Yeah I actually saw you in B since I'm in there too. Would be funny if we fought.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just passed the last exam this term. Time to play!


----------



## DoomDash

Wow Protoss is strong as hell. I just played a game where I punished the guy for an early expo ( destroyed it ), and when I regrouped and came back ( after having my expo mining while his was dead ), he managed to hold off my force pretty good.

Heavy Zealots Blinker style... but damn I couldn't believe it. For a second I thought I was in trouble.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Nevaziah

Love that post. +rep for that shyytee!

and on a side note, I made diamond, nothing to see here....
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/625237/1/Nevaziah/


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats on Diamond bro. Rep back.

1900, damn already on my ass.


----------



## ThumperSD

Grats. How many points did you lose after getting promoted?


----------



## yks

Just played and won my first round.

You guys got lucky forfeits while I had to play a Bronze =[

Next round opponent is 2100 Diamond Terran, T_T


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just played and won my first round.

You guys got lucky forfeits while I had to play a Bronze =[

Next round opponent is 2100 Diamond Terran, T_T


Hey that's like playing me! Good luck. Azn Pride.


----------



## DoomDash

I've decided next season since I will no longer wait for bonus pool, to live stream my ladder matches @ the same time every day.


----------



## vdek

3 games later I'm now diamond in 1v1, go figure.









Only a measly 670 point diamond though. For now!


----------



## Mwarren

Finally got promoted to Plat (1900) after switching back to T, will hopefully be in Diamond soon.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11650789*
> Finally got promoted to Plat (1900) after switching back to T, will hopefully be in Diamond soon.


The ladder grind sucks =[


----------



## DoomDash

I love ladder grinding, but I've been in Diamond since the 2nd day it came out







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11650834*
> I love ladder grinding, but I've been in Diamond since the 2nd day it came out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Heh, I played almost 1000 games during Beta grinding into what was then Platinum and then diamond when it was implemented. Got soo tired of it when the game was released and I swear the first two players I played during ranking games where top tier diamond players. So I got placed into Silver... grinding from Silver->Diamond sucks. That, and I get really nervous during 1v1s for some reason compared to team games.

I should throw this out, this was the game that got me into Diamond, really great and quick Zerg vs Zerg game.


----------



## EmMure

Why is noone online fudge!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11650449*
> Hey that's like playing me! Good luck. Azn Pride.


Oh, looks like I'm advancing then. ;] jk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11650634*
> I've decided next season since I will no longer wait for bonus pool, to live stream my ladder matches @ the same time every day.


If you need help setting up the stream, holla at your boy. You gonna use livestream, ustream, justin.tv, or own3d.tv?

I use ustream because livestream has a 500kbps cap for free accounts =[ and less adds too.


----------



## DoomDash

What would you recommend? I'm open to any. I have a 18-22 mb connection but the upload is actually awful.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11648063*


Nice pic although I never thought gaming was a waste. Always thought of it as relaxation time even when I lose badly








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11650634*
> I've decided next season since I will no longer wait for bonus pool, to live stream my ladder matches @ the same time every day.


Interesting, but, may I ask why? Thinking of making a career out of SCII?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11650834*
> I love ladder grinding, but I've been in Diamond since the 2nd day it came out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


lol, well, all that means is you play to move









BTW, congrats Neva on the diamond promotion and 1900 already, nice!


----------



## cory1234

Grinding isn't exactly fun. I mean the word alone..grinding? Does that sound fun? Points mean relatively nothing skill wise. Some of the best players in the world don't have 3400 points, and some players with 3000+ points have a 50% win ratio because they have over 2000 games played. In fact there are a couple players with over 3000 points and a *losing* record.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11651971*
> Grinding isn't exactly fun. I mean the word alone..grinding? Does that sound fun? Points mean relatively nothing skill wise. Some of the best players in the world don't have 3400 points, and some players with 3000+ points have a 50% win ratio because they have over 2000 games played. In fact there are a couple players with over 3000 points and a *losing* record.


Pretty much. Points don't mean anything in respect to how well you play because with bonus pool, you get double, so, I can easily jump to over 2.5k if I was to win most games I play(just an example, no need to get excited







). It's interesting to see ppl in Silver+ with pt. of 2000+


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11651970*
> Nice pic although I never thought gaming was a waste. Always thought of it as relaxation time even when I lose badly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, but, may I ask why? Thinking of making a career out of SCII?


No? Just for fun. More for the newb filled starcraftarena.net. Plus people watching I will hear more of my own mistakes.

Fine I love laddering, and I don't consider it grinding at all. Not even close.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11652049*
> No? Just for fun. More for the newb filled starcraftarena.net. Plus people watching I will hear more of my own mistakes.
> 
> Fine I love laddering, and I don't consider it grinding at all. Not even close.


ok, makes sense, either way, not a bad idea









If anyone is interested in a game, I'm on. Net seems to be fine for now, so, let's hope that it stays that way


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11651962*
> What would you recommend? I'm open to any. I have a 18-22 mb connection but the upload is actually awful.


do it sotg and dayJ style. ustream.


----------



## burwij

Day9 did a streaming tutorial with PCWorld, should get you started:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/213034/screencast_live_how_to_make_your_own_web_tv_show.html?tk=hp_fv


----------



## DoomDash

Ohhh nice. Rep.


----------



## BigFan

Just had a PvsT. T bunker rushed me, made some close to my ramp on Jungle Basin and started working his way to it. Kept on harassing with a small group every once in a while but I was able to weather the storm since he didn't see to have stim(had concussive shells though). I kept on pumping probes, made a forge and laid some cannons right as he made another push which I was able to squash(thank you zealots, LOL). The cannons took down one of his bunkers near my ramp and he just quit right after









Curious, what do you guys think is better? HTs or colossi? I had a TvsP game previous to that where my P opponent expanded. I went for MMT with some thors and ravens. He would attack storming in the process. I was able to survive a couple of strong waves due to ppd and tanks but with his 3, likely 4 bases, my 3 just weren't enough, so, I'm curious are ghosts the answer to ht's? I keep on forgetting that EMP would wipe out all of the ht's energy, but, there are always observers, so, I guess sniping those first then emping his hts would be the ideal situation? Lucky for me, he had no immortals


----------



## DoomDash

I think Colossus / Robobay is better initially but if you can get both it's a nightmare for Terran. When they transition into Templar you generally have all these useless ****ing vikings.

Yes ghosts are probably needed vs templar. Get cloak and the energy upgrade. You probably want to send in a cloaked ghost to EMP snipe Templars whenever you can. The only problem is when they warp in more with amulets and you already used your EMP's.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think Colossus / Robobay is better initially but if you can get both it's a nightmare for Terran.

Yes ghosts are probably needed vs templar. Get cloak and the energy upgrade. You probably want to send in a cloaked ghost to EMP snipe Templars whenever you can. The only problem is when they warp in more with amulets and you already used your EMP's.


hmm, ok, makes sense. I had a decent chunk of marines and even thought they were spread out, all he had to do was storm and all of them hit red almost instantly T_T XD
Although, can't say I didn't see this coming, lol, but I was going to get a ghost. I think I'll start adding ghosts in at least 3 or so if they go ht's or immortals


----------



## DoomDash

I prefer storm to colossus. I think storm is more powerful BUT at least you can micro / EMP to reduce or avoid damage. Vs Colossus micro generally cannot save you, and if they have a decent number your first row of units pretty much disintegrates instantly. Plus Templar's don't force you into an otherwise useless unit.


----------



## cory1234

Had a no show in the Newegg tourney. Anyone else is the C division?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I prefer storm to colossus. I think storm is more powerful BUT at least you can micro / EMP to reduce or avoid damage. Vs Colossus micro generally cannot save you, and if they have a decent number your first row of units pretty much disintegrates instantly. Plus Templar's don't force you into an otherwise useless unit.


HT's are much more safe. If your colossi are scouted early its over basically leaving you very weak and vulnerable. Terran can easily pump out vikings to decimate colossi, while ghosts cost a lot of gas for terran in comparison.


----------



## DoomDash

Let's see your Templar stop my banshees. That's why I think robo is better to start.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


HT's are much more safe. If your colossi are scouted early its over basically leaving you very weak and vulnerable. Terran can easily pump out vikings to decimate colossi, while ghosts cost a lot of gas for terran in comparison.


True point. Really, I think they are both great units, but, ht's require ghosts which cost lots of gas while colossi require vikings which also cost gas(not as much though), so, it depends on situation


----------



## DoomDash

Ghosts are good all the time though. I don't think it's even comparable. Force me into Ghosts please.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*Let's see *your Templar stop my banshees. That's why I think robo is better to start.


Read this then looked at your avatar, lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Ghosts are good all the time though. I don't think it's even comparable. Force me into Ghosts please.


The thing is, they are so heavy on gas, it's unbelievable. 150, really? A thor only costs 150/50 more and their damage is amazing in comparison, however, I'm not saying that they aren't worth it, just that if he has an observer with his army, is watching carefully as he moves to your base and has his ht's in the middle, so, that you can't get to them easily, he could snipe your ghost as you try to engage. It's only when the armies meet that you might get a chance to emp or snipe his ht's due to the *confusion* that ensues


----------



## thiru

EMP range > feedback range. If you shoot your EMP, feedback probably won't do much against your ghost.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


EMP range > feedback range. If you shoot your EMP, feedback probably won't do much against your ghost.


Interesting, although, not sure if that's in direct reference to my point. If you don't think you can EMP, you just need 2 snipes to take down a ht(45/hit, 40/40 ht's hp+shield), although, not sure about it's range


----------



## thiru

Dunno if this was posted already










http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=176846


----------



## banded1

does this game keep track of your record against certain races?
it seems like any time i play a silver league player i end up playing a protoss and i suck against protoss. i played 4 toss in a row yesterday, then every other match after that was against toss. today i played toss pretty much every other game as well.
and right when i was about make my w/l even, i get dropped from the bnet servers. my internet is working fine and was when i was playing that match... now i think im 3 games below .500


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11653606*
> Dunno if this was posted already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176846


Group F, is freaking sad. This is why MLG and GOM shouldn't do random seedings. Clan Killing is never cool, ask EG.

Then putting the 2 only Foreigners together in H... =[

Nestea gets a sad group too. 3 Terran, 1 Zerg. He's gonna have to hold off cheese after cheese after cheese. If he pulls out, he'll be the Hero-Zerg, serious.

Group B is gonna be interesting to watch. mvp is beast on the ladder and Zenio excels in ZvZ, and FruitDealer... well, he's FruitDealer, your original champion.

I'm mildly indifferent for most of the other groups.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ijwtGCaRg&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banded1;11653810*
> does this game keep track of your record against certain races?
> it seems like any time i play a silver league player i end up playing a protoss and i suck against protoss. i played 4 toss in a row yesterday, then every other match after that was against toss. today i played toss pretty much every other game as well.
> and right when i was about make my w/l even, i get dropped from the bnet servers. my internet is working fine and was when i was playing that match... now i think im 3 games below .500


Unfortunately, not, although it would be nice if it did. For me, T used to be my worst matchup with P a close second, now P is one of my worst matchups as well. If they go ht's whenever I'm T, there goes half of my army(provided I forget to get ghosts). If I'm zerg, I'll usually get some roaches+slings and they'll get 2-3 immortals and with zealots+stalkers, crush this, although, mutas are a life saver here







As for your w/l, just forget it. I'm slightly above .500, 1 game only and while I used to try to maintain it to be a lot higher, I'll get disconnects as well :/

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11653606*
> Dunno if this was posted already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176846


So, is this how they chose for GSL 4 RO64 then?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11656290*
> Unfortunately, not, although it would be nice if it did. For me, T used to be my worst matchup with P a close second, now P is one of my worst matchups as well. If they go ht's whenever I'm T, there goes half of my army(provided I forget to get ghosts). If I'm zerg, I'll usually get some roaches+slings and they'll get 2-3 immortals and with zealots+stalkers, crush this, although, mutas are a life saver here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for your w/l, just forget it. I'm slightly above .500, 1 game only and while I used to try to maintain it to be a lot higher, I'll get disconnects as well :/
> 
> So, is this how they chose for GSL 4 RO64 then?


No, that's just for those who have code S. It allows half of them to directly enter the GSL in the round of 16.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11655611*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ijwtGCaRg&feature=related


After seeing that video, I've come to realize that I really miss SC a lot T_T I might be giving the campaign another run through because I enjoyed it in the past and knowing how to macro/micro well now with the different abilities means that I can probably beat it faster while taking in the story better. Curious, what did you guys think of SP and the story? It's something that we never discussed here, mostly the different matchups and units


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11656583*
> No, that's just for those who have code S. It allows half of them to directly enter the GSL in the round of 16.


huh? Come again! I had no clue, that if you have code S, you can just enter RO16. I thought you had to go through the qualifications matches to get into RO64 and then move up from there


----------



## apointo

Hey there, I'm a noob, but I think sc2 is great. Couldn't even manage to get to the silver league yet. But I'm trying hard.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apointo;11656997*
> Hey there, I'm a noob, but I think sc2 is great. Couldn't even manage to get to the silver league yet. But I'm trying hard.


Just keep at it, practice, practice and keep on droning/scving/probing depending on your race. GL


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11656604*
> Curious, what did you guys think of SP and the story? It's something that we never discussed here, mostly the different matchups and units


original SC, or 2?

the dialogue in the second one really seemed fake to me, it just didn't pull me into the story so much...
I feel some of the voice actors could have put more emotion into it or something.

I think the Protoss voice actors did the best job but maybe i'm biased from playing them in SC1


----------



## ronnin426850

I just want to mention SC2 is the best RTS I've played (and I've played them a lot) and one of the best games in general. I eagerly expect the next campaign







It's good to know Blizzard haven't completely lost their minds, after the whole WoW fiasco


----------



## apointo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11657010*
> Just keep at it, practice, practice and keep on droning/scving/probing depending on your race. GL


Cheers mate, I play as protoss. Used to play as terran, but got bored. The 4 Gates strategy starts working pretty well for me in the bronze league.


----------



## Gigalisk

I'm just glad that they summed up everyones thoughts when they said "Hell, it's about time."


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apointo;11657156*
> cheers mate, i play as protoss. Used to play as terran, but got bored. The 4 gates strategy starts working pretty well for me in the bronze league.


protoss rawk


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;11657235*
> I'm just glad that they summed up everyones thoughts when they said "Hell, it's about time."


Haha, nice one







Tychus' accent is just marbless.. Too bad the sucker got a headshot


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11657023*
> original SC, or 2?
> 
> the dialogue in the second one really seemed fake to me, it just didn't pull me into the story so much...
> I feel some of the voice actors could have put more emotion into it or something.
> 
> I think the Protoss voice actors did the best job but maybe i'm biased from playing them in SC1


Meant SC2's story, felt a bit shallow, didn't pull me in as much as SC1 did, that's really my main pickle, otherwise the missions weren't bad. Hope they go back to linear route though and make it so that you are being talked to and not watching Jim being talked to from the side like how it is now :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;11657036*
> I just want to mention SC2 is the best RTS I've played (and I've played them a lot) and one of the best games in general. I eagerly expect the next campaign
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good to know Blizzard haven't completely lost their minds, after the whole WoW fiasco


Yes, it's definitely a great RTS but has a lot of ways to go before getting to BW levels








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;11657281*
> Haha, nice one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tychus' accent is just marbless.. Too bad the sucker got a headshot


Never know, people were making predictions that maybe it's all a setup to help him escape from Megnsk, but, we'll have to wait and see.

@apointo Yes, it works well, but, try to spice it up. As in against T, go for 2 gate robo or give 2 gate stargate a try against Z to snipe OLs and keep muta count low


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11657406*
> Meant SC2's story, felt a bit shallow, didn't pull me in as much as SC1 did, that's really my main pickle, otherwise the missions weren't bad.


yea, I especially loved the last Protoss one


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



where all the heroes make a last stand, but does that mean the Protoss expansion will have to have new heroes? or was that just the vision of the overmind of what could happen if Kerrigan doesn't set the zerg free?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11657624*
> yea, I especially loved the last Protoss one
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> where all the heroes make a last stand, but does that mean the Protoss expansion will have to have new heroes? or was that just the vision of the overmind of what could happen if Kerrigan doesn't set the zerg free?


I didn't play the protoss part... Did I miss much? And I never played the first SC too, but the dialogues didn't seem poor to me in SC2. POV, I guess


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;11657680*
> I didn't play the protoss part... Did I miss much?


I did that too during my first playthrough, (I thought there was only 1 protoss mission lol, didn't think of clicking on the memory thing again).
I thought the story overall made much more sense playing those missions, reveals a few important stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

Single player was nice. I still need to finish it on brutal. I think I started it over on brutal but the game speed was "Normal" and I couldn't stand it.


----------



## Gigalisk

Hey now that they're starting to add things to battle.net, you think they may add LAN support along the way too?

Here's why i'm saying this:

-The public Test Beta is trying to release a major change to Battle.Net on which pretty much the entire SC2 Multiplayer Framework is built on. Making such a big change to BNet demonstrates that making a drastic change to bnet is feasible during the games lifespan opening the way for some possibilities...

-In starcraft I, when the UDP protocol was released, two major changes happened to multiplayer on Starcraft: One, they took away the IPX/SPX protocol and added UDP protocol for lan games; and Two, they added the option for different regions of starcraft. The protocol change in SC1 sort of looks like something that could be done to SC2 to enable LAN play.

Bottom Line: Big network changes to battle.net have to be triggering some LAN development possibilities at the blizzard level. Then i wont have to find a hack for lan play. Of course it's beating a dead horse, but i believe this is coming.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11657624*
> yea, I especially loved the last Protoss one
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> where all the heroes make a last stand, but does that mean the Protoss expansion will have to have new heroes? or was that just the vision of the overmind of what could happen if Kerrigan doesn't set the zerg free?





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The idea was that since Kerrigan was killed, the hybrids took control of the zerg, slaughtered the terran and then were going to slaughter the protoss which is where you were placed, the final battle. This is the main reason for the prophecy and the main purpose of the overmind making Kerrigan the Queen of blades was to save the zerg due to the fact that he was being controlled by the dark voice and was having a hard time resisting them. Can't believe how WC3ish this sounds though with the whole prophecy idea. Of course, I loved WC3 and played SP like 20 times over







but I would've loved to see the UEF back since only a small part of their fleet was taken out in BW along with Raynor should being pissed about Fenix!

In terms of the heroes, I have no clue how they are approaching their SP. I just hope they make the game linear again because the story feels disjointed even if it gives you different missions that you can do at any one time










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;11657680*
> I didn't play the protoss part... Did I miss much? And I never played the first SC too, but the dialogues didn't seem poor to me in SC2. POV, I guess


Yes, you did. They had several missions that made the story make more sense and you got to give P a try as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11658087*
> Single player was nice. I still need to finish it on brutal. I think I started it over on brutal but the game speed was "Normal" and I couldn't stand it.


Plan to make a brutal run myself, just busy these days but soon








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;11658153*
> Hey now that they're starting to add things to battle.net, you think they may add LAN support along the way too?
> 
> Here's why i'm saying this:
> 
> -The public Test Beta is trying to release a major change to Battle.Net on which pretty much the entire SC2 Multiplayer Framework is built on. Making such a big change to BNet demonstrates that making a drastic change to bnet is feasible during the games lifespan opening the way for some possibilities...
> 
> -In starcraft I, when the UDP protocol was released, two major changes happened to multiplayer on Starcraft: One, they took away the IPX/SPX protocol and added UDP protocol for lan games; and Two, they added the option for different regions of starcraft. The protocol change in SC1 sort of looks like something that could be done to SC2 to enable LAN play.
> 
> Bottom Line: Big network changes to battle.net have to be triggering some LAN development possibilities at the blizzard level. Then i wont have to find a hack for lan play. Of course it's beating a dead horse, but i believe this is coming.


Well, anything is possible at this point, since, they do seem to fixing up B.net however if they made LAN like it used to be, they would lose out on the profit that the current system has in place, so, I would say it's a long shot :/


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11653606*
> Dunno if this was posted already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176846


Nice to see Tester on there


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *apointo*


Hey there, I'm a noob, but I think sc2 is great. Couldn't even manage to get to the silver league yet. But I'm trying hard.


That's my neighbor!. I taught him how to 4 gate









You may want to add your character here.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11660196*
> That's my neighbor!. I taught him how to 4 gate


Dirty bastard







. jk


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11657624*
> yea, I especially loved the last Protoss one
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> where all the heroes make a last stand, but does that mean the Protoss expansion will have to have new heroes? or was that just the vision of the overmind of what could happen if Kerrigan doesn't set the zerg free?





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



That was a flash-forward; a vision of the future if nothing changes. During that scenario, the terrans were all dead, and the bad guy made comments like "Dude, you're so stupid; Kerrigan could have saved you, but you ALREADY KILLED HER." Obviously, in the current time she's not dead yet, so it's a "potential ending"


----------



## DoomDash

My second newegg wanfest match is tonight.

Someone get on and play I need practice.


----------



## DoomDash

SC2 + My own music = fail.


----------



## Xyxyll

Marine Arena. Anyone play it? PM me so we can team up instead of being matched up with new players.


----------



## burwij

8 more minutes until I claim forfeit #2 of the Newegg tourney, sigh.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


SC2 + My own music = fail.


How did it go?


----------



## DoomDash

I haven't played it yet. I agreed to play it in 2-3 more hours since he couldn't make the time. Problem is I'm very tired







.

Are you in it?


----------



## burwij

Turns out I spoke too soon, my opponent showed up about 10 minutes late. He was a 2300 Terran, I played Random and got Protoss all 3 times - ended up winning 2-1.


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11661647*
> SC2 + My own music = fail.


hmm, what kind of music did you try? I think sc2 music isn't bad, but, sc is epic!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij;11663654*
> Turns out I spoke too soon, my opponent showed up about 10 minutes late. He was a 2300 Terran, I played Random and got Protoss all 3 times - ended up winning 2-1.


Congrats









Good luck with your match, doom!


----------



## DoomDash

I won my matches. Next opponent is a 2,396 Terran, yowzer. I am not confident in my TvT either.

I strongly recommend game 2 as it was ****ing clutch and close. He also *****es.

Game 1:


Game 2:


thx bigfan!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664492*
> I won my matches. Next opponent is a 2,396 Terran, yowzer. I am not confident in my TvT either.
> 
> I strongly recommend game 2 as it was ****ing clutch and close. He also *****es.
> 
> Game 1:
> 
> 
> Game 2:


I guess I spoke too late(previous post)








Congrats on your win!







I don't practicing some TvsT with you if you'll like, although, it'll have to be in 30min or so, just got home


----------



## DoomDash

Dude I'm sooooo tired. I was tired when this guy was supposed to play me.... GAH.

Plus I need some crazy sick TvT practice not a learning Terran practice







. Though if I can't find anyone I will come to you.


----------



## Xyxyll

I've always hated TvT. Of course two months of playing nonstop Nexus Wars / Marine Arena also knocks you off your regular SC2 game. I'm Gold level but I doubt I could beat a Bronze atm.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11664490*
> hmm, what kind of music did you try? I think sc2 music isn't bad, but, sc is epic!


Trance tends to work out well for me in SC2. High tempo parts I'm more aggressive. Breaks in the song I'm more level. It's a good balance.

For CS:S or MW2 though, upbeat techno/d&b definitely!


----------



## DoomDash

Oh and I just listen to my normal music : 90's music, punk, metal, and game sound tracks. Still, I find it way way too distracting.

watch game 2 for awesome QQ!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664553*
> Dude I'm sooooo tired. I was tired when this guy was supposed to play me.... GAH.
> 
> Plus I need some crazy sick TvT practice not a learning Terran practice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Though if I can't find anyone I will come to you.


ok, np, you know how to reach me anyways







BTW, just because I'm learning doesn't mean I won't be trying some strange strategy that you might not be ready for. It's what makes the lower leagues so intriguing to me at least, the various types of cheese, odd strategies, etc....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyxyll;11664559*
> I've always hated TvT. Of course two months of playing nonstop Nexus Wars / Marine Arena also knocks you off your regular SC2 game. I'm Gold level but I doubt I could beat a Bronze atm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trance tends to work out well for me in SC2. High tempo parts I'm more aggressive. Breaks in the song I'm more level. It's a good balance.
> 
> For CS:S or MW2 though, upbeat techno/d&b definitely!


Those customs do that to you







I played some team games and tug of war and I found it hard to go back to 1vs1







hmm, I don't mind the SC2 audio but having sc audio would be interesting, but, I definitely understand what you are talking about. Maybe you should put a song that is mostly high tempo, then you'll be harassing your opponent from the start, lol.


----------



## ThumperSD

Just some random thing I noticed; sentries attacking interceptors is the coolest looking thing. Looks like the sentry is flying a kite that is being struck by lightning.


----------



## Xyxyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11664665*
> ok, np, you know how to reach me anyways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, just because I'm learning doesn't mean I won't be trying some strange strategy that you might not be ready for. It's what makes the lower leagues so intriguing to me at least, the various types of cheese, odd strategies, etc....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those customs do that to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I played some team games and tug of war and I found it hard to go back to 1vs1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, I don't mind the SC2 audio but having sc audio would be interesting, but, I definitely understand what you are talking about. Maybe you should put a song that is mostly high tempo, then you'll be harassing your opponent from the start, lol.


SCV rush! Heh... it's odd but I made it to Gold in 2 or 3 leagues without ever realizing the "attack + click" function. I always focus fired by right mouse clicking.

I like trance because it's mostly melodic so it affects your subconscious mind 100x more than your conscious mind. By the time the game starts, You're zoned in and completely concentrated. Obviously the danger is a slow song comes on when they're attacking you.









Pandora and SC2 make great friends.


----------



## thiru

Mmmh I should try music to calm myself in 1v1....


----------



## blackedv

man i got drone rushed today







i failed at microing badly i need to watch some videos on how its done


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyxyll;11664750*
> SCV rush! Heh... it's odd but I made it to Gold in 2 or 3 leagues without ever realizing the "attack + click" function. I always focus fired by right mouse clicking.
> 
> I like trance because it's mostly melodic so it affects your subconscious mind 100x more than your conscious mind. By the time the game starts, You're zoned in and completely concentrated. Obviously the danger is a slow song comes on when they're attacking you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pandora and SC2 make great friends.


hmm, any examples of trance music? I've given semisync music a try before, although, it was for something different. I'm really thinking of giving the SC1 track and some really fast tempo music a try, would be interesting to see the effects








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11664768*
> Mmmh I should try music to calm myself in 1v1....


hmm, thinking of that myself, although, I'm guessing ambient sounds are left on and it's only the music that's checked off in the options menu







I guess the only problem I have is, usually I just relax before the game begins and have control of my emotions even if I'm losing/lose the game, so, not sure how the music might help me relax


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackedv;11664789*
> man i got drone rushed today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i failed at microing badly i need to watch some videos on how its done


Do this. Select all your workers, press A and then click behind the drones. They'll surround them, take them all out without many casualties and most opponents quit at that point


----------



## Twistacles

Which brackets are you guys in for the newegg Wanfest? I just beat my second round opponent


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11664852*
> Which brackets are you guys in for the newegg Wanfest? I just beat my second round opponent


Congrats on the win


----------



## DoomDash

http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=3927

Man I watched the replay of my last opponent. He ****ing sucked. Look at his probe count and how he does not expand @ advantage.


----------



## Xyxyll

Just watched Game 2. Well done. I was a little worried about your engineering bay timing, but it worked out fine.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664866*
> http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=3927
> 
> Man I watched the replay of my last opponent. He ****ing sucked. Look at his probe count and how he does not expand @ advantage.


While I haven't seen the replay, never underestimate your opponent, because if you take him too lightly, it can cost you


----------



## DoomDash

The EMP's, kiting, and PDD are what really did him in. Also the fact that he didn't engage in a place where he could trap me.

BigFan your favorite unit ever is used ( Raven ).


----------



## Xyxyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11664810*
> hmm, any examples of trance music? I've given semisync music a try before, although, it was for something different. I'm really thinking of giving the SC1 track and some really fast tempo music a try, would be interesting to see the effects
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, thinking of that myself, although, I'm guessing ambient sounds are left on and it's only the music that's checked off in the options menu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the only problem I have is, usually I just relax before the game begins and have control of my emotions even if I'm losing/lose the game, so, not sure how the music might help me relax


I've got a Pandora station for "Above & Beyond" which plays trance from artists like Armin Van Buuren, Paul Oakenfold, OceanLab, Kaskade, and a few others.

If you need an adderall-like focus, make sure this is on your playlist:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAt0X2nlXZo[/ame]


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyxyll;11664973*
> I've got a Pandora station for "Above & Beyond" which plays trance from artists like Armin Van Buuren, Paul Oakenfold, OceanLab, Kaskade, and a few others.
> 
> If you need an adderall-like focus, make sure this is on your playlist:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAt0X2nlXZo


I have a specific playlist that I use for SC2 that includes lot of Deadmau5. Not that song though. I prefer fast paced, up beat music when playing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664866*
> http://wanfest.newegg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=3927
> 
> Man I watched the replay of my last opponent. He ****ing sucked. Look at his probe count and how he does not expand @ advantage.


I only watched the first replay but his macro was pretty bad. He had no follow up for his DT rush. What rank is he?


----------



## DoomDash

He is 1800+ Diamond.. but he plays Z. With how poorly he played P I doubt his Z would have beat me either.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664939*
> The EMP's, kiting, and PDD are what really did him in. Also the fact that he didn't engage in a place where he could trap me.
> 
> *BigFan your favorite unit ever is used ( Raven )*.










Well, you can't exact deny that it's an awesome T unit, only complaint is that it's sooo slow and costs an arm and a leg







Turrets or a seeker missile into the mineral line will catch most opponent's offguard. PPD is also awesome even if the split second before it's taken out and while the seeker missile is slow, it does decent damage(maybe use it from behind as they engage you)








BTW, that unit saved me several times in my TvsP last night when my army was hopelessly outmatched


----------



## DoomDash

I think it's funny you like some silly abilities. Not that Raven's are bad, because they aren't. PDD is awesome. Seeker missile still sucks. Auto-turrets are OK.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665008*
> He is 1800+ Diamond.. but he plays Z. With how poorly he played P I doubt his Z would have beat me either.


Strange that he went with protoss for a tourny that includes money even though he mainly plays zerg


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665008*
> He is 1800+ Diamond.. but he plays Z. With how poorly he played P I doubt his Z would have beat me either.


Maybe he just started playing P recently since he's been playing Z for a long time.


----------



## DoomDash

Watch the replay. Game 2 he says he doesn't play P. I did look at his history and he was indeed playing P at least his last few matches.

He will also complain about imbalance in that match, after only making ****ing 20 some probes ( vs my mid 30 SCV's after being DT rushed ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665022*
> *I think it's funny you like some silly abilities*. Not that Raven's are bad, because they aren't. PDD is awesome. *Seeker missile still sucks*. Auto-turrets are OK.


lol, this is SC, every ability is somewhat silly. I mean blinking units or units that mind control? Let's not forgot units that can storm, etc....







It makes the game more fun when there are more spellcasters because of the many possibilities. BTW, those seeker missiles caught you off guard in our FFA a while back and took out at least 6 of your workers. True, not many workers, but, that's 300 minerals that are wasted making more workers which could've went into making 6 marines









Here's an idea for auto-turrets that I haven't seen done yet: drop them between the cc and refineries, so, that workers can't just exit in that direction, but, a better idea would be to block all possible exits and there aren't many on most maps


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665051*
> Watch the replay. Game 2 he says he doesn't play P. I did look at his history and he was indeed playing P at least his last few matches.
> 
> He will also complain about imbalance in that match, after only making ****ing 20 some probes ( vs my mid 30 SCV's after being DT rushed ).


oh, ok, although, only 20 something probes? That's rather low. As for dt rushing, well, personally, don't think it's a great idea because most Ts get an OC @ 16 which means scans are available before dts reach your base


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11665080*
> lol, this is SC, every ability is somewhat silly. I mean blinking units or units that mind control? Let's not forgot units that can storm, etc....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes the game more fun when there are more spellcasters because of the many possibilities. BTW, those seeker missiles caught you off guard in our FFA a while back and took out at least 6 of your workers. True, not many workers, but, that's 300 minerals that are wasted making more workers which could've went into making 6 marines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea for auto-turrets that I haven't seen done yet: drop them between the cc and refineries, so, that workers can't just exit in that direction, but, a better idea would be to block all possible exits and there aren't many on most maps


You would have killed like 20 scvs if you layed down 2 auto-turrets, and been up 25 energy.

Seeker missiles are horrible against anyone who is paying attention. I was not paying attention because I was ****ing up Thiru. I did laugh when I saw you killed almost nothing and I had no defense. You are like a little kid throwing rocks at people in a FFA.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11664635*
> Oh and I just listen to my normal music : 90's music, punk, metal, and game sound tracks. Still, I find it way way too distracting.
> 
> watch game 2 for awesome QQ!


You got the game order wrong when you named the replays.


----------



## DoomDash

did I? u sure? Well whatever. watch the one with DT's. im going to bed guys







.


----------



## thiru

Yeah he cries OP on what you named as game 1.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11665092*
> oh, ok, although, only 20 something probes? That's rather low. As for dt rushing, well, personally, don't think it's a great idea because most Ts get an OC @ 16 which means scans are available before dts reach your base


I thought his DT rush was pretty good but he overcommited with a bit too many DTs. He should have thrown up his expo as soon as his first DT went into Doom's base. Even though he made a bunch of DTs, he had way too much gas compared to meeeneralzzz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11665101*
> You got the game order wrong when you named the replays.


Yea I figured. The DT game was the first one that was posted. His macro was pretty crappy both games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665095*
> You would have killed like 20 scvs if you layed down 2 auto-turrets, and been up 25 energy.
> 
> Seeker missiles are horrible against anyone who is paying attention. I was not paying attention because I was ****ing up Thiru. I did laugh when I saw you killed almost nothing and I had no defense. *You are like a little kid throwing rocks at people in a FFA.*


I haven't experimented much with auto-turrets to see their effects. As for those missiles, well, I was interested in seeing how well they work in terms of range and their splash. They didn't go crazy damage, but, auto-turrets are susceptible to ground or air attacks, those missiles aren't, so, I could drop one and run off









Would you rather I just went all in and attacked your base, because, TBH, I would do it, not really worried about losing points, so, I can take risks







In FFAs, I sit back and observe what's happening and react accordingly. There was a reason those drops I made took down your exp and some other structures in the process? Call it lucky, I call it good timing









BTW, with no points on the line, I find FFA relaxing and just a match to try some fun/funky strategies









Edit: I also doubt you are going to bed, since, you stay up most nights. Remember what you said a while back, it was either sleep is overrated or gamers never sleep. I know one was EmMure, not sure which was yours


----------



## poroboszcz

Awesome 4 gate robo stargate council build.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11665170*
> Awesome 4 gate robo stargate council build.


lol, guessing that was sarcasm?


----------



## EmMure

bigfan games?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11665207*
> bigfan games?


Sure, sc2 is updating tools, so give me a min or so for it to finish


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11663279*
> I haven't played it yet. I agreed to play it in 2-3 more hours since he couldn't make the time. Problem is I'm very tired
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Are you in it?


Yes. Group C. My match is tomorrow. Unfortunately I have to write a 15-20 page paper by Friday, so my focus isn't exactly on SC atm







. After that I only have one semester left tho!!!


----------



## blackedv

ive seen one seeker missle do a number on one guys 20 clumped mutas,ofcourse this was silver 4v4 but it was still hilarious and had that dude asking wth lol


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11664975*
> I have a specific playlist that I use for SC2 that includes lot of Deadmau5. Not that song though. I prefer fast paced, up beat music when playing.


Same here. It helps keep the APM high.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11665022*
> I think it's funny you like some silly abilities. Not that Raven's are bad, because they aren't. PDD is awesome. Seeker missile still sucks. Auto-turrets are OK.


I've played a few 4v4s/3v3s where all I went was mass raven. They absolutely slaughters if you can get enough of them.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11667260*
> Same here. It helps keep the APM high.


BTW I have to note- the songs written for SC2's soundtrack are amazing! Best in class, IMHO


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11665158*
> I haven't experimented much with auto-turrets to see their effects. As for those missiles, well, I was interested in seeing how well they work in terms of range and their splash. They didn't go crazy damage, but, auto-turrets are susceptible to ground or air attacks, those missiles aren't, so, I could drop one and run off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you rather I just went all in and attacked your base, because, TBH, I would do it, not really worried about losing points, so, I can take risks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In FFAs, I sit back and observe what's happening and react accordingly. There was a reason those drops I made took down your exp and some other structures in the process? Call it lucky, I call it good timing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, with no points on the line, I find FFA relaxing and just a match to try some fun/funky strategies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I also doubt you are going to bed, since, you stay up most nights. Remember what you said a while back, it was either sleep is overrated or gamers never sleep. I know one was EmMure, not sure which was yours


I'm just messing with you man I agree with you on FFA, it's for ****s and giggles







.


----------



## DoomDash

I thought I lost my last ladder match.. was stuck on one base ( with an extra CC in my base ) defending sling banes for quite awhile. Some how managed to come back and win it. +3X points, 2550 Zerg. He didn't expand again I think he thought he had me.


----------



## poroboszcz

I usually listen to last.fm when laddering, but I prefer silence when I have a serious game. Trance is ok since it's not very disturbing, but drum and base is even better for a fast paced action. I think all zerg players should listen to dubstep though, with beats as filthy as the race they play.









Edit:

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Waqn0jBG58]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Waqn0jBG58"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Waqn0jBG58[/ame[/URL]]

I could watch Sen streaming to this song in a loop the whole day, lol. It even fits well with zerg's sound effects.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11668019*
> I'm just messing with you man I agree with you on FFA, it's for ****s and giggles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


lol, well, I won't deny you made a good point since my attacks didn't inflict great damage(that missile, first drop) but I will agree that FFA are to play SC2 for the fun of it without worrying about points, etc....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11668745*
> I thought I lost my last ladder match.. was stuck on one base ( with an extra CC in my base ) defending sling banes for quite awhile. Some how managed to come back and win it. +3X points, 2550 Zerg. *He didn't expand again I think he thought he had me.*


I hate when I'm on the receiving end of that. You think you've gotten the opponent contained only for them to make some crazy timing push with a large army that you can't hold back :/


----------



## DoomDash

FFA is absolute madness it would be hard to win them all. Also I've learned that 3 player FFA is hell for the middle guy regardless of his skill lol.


----------



## rhed5

I love FFA's. Even if you play it perfect, you still can lose.

I love staying quiet and building like 30 void rays, which kill eveything! Unstoppable after you get that many.


----------



## DoomDash

So you're that guy huh? Jerk.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11669386*
> I love FFA's. Even if you play it perfect, you still can lose.
> 
> I love staying quiet and building like 30 void rays, which kill eveything! Unstoppable after you get that many.


I did that bunch of times during Beta. Did a Macro rush to 200/200 food void rays + full upgrades. The only counter was a terran player who decided to use his trust fund to build about 100 turrets all over the map with viking/thor support. I only did it a few times though because it's a boring way to win.


----------



## DoomDash

At least Flux is gone







.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Why the hating on ravens? I play zerg and ravens look pretty good to me. Seeker missile can chase mutas off a base and keep siege tanks from being sniped. Autoturret and PPD are great for instant air defense. If a zerg has invested in mass muta arguably the best counter in the game is ravens with marine support.

And ravens let you wreck all the creep spread. That's pretty important.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11669204*
> FFA is absolute madness it would be hard to win them all. Also I've learned that 3 player FFA is *hell for the middle guy* regardless of his skill lol.


lol, it's too bad you had to learn it the hard way


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11669466*
> Why the hating on ravens? I play zerg and ravens look pretty good to me. Seeker missile can chase mutas off a base and keep siege tanks from being sniped. Autoturret and PPD are great for instant air defense. If a zerg has invested in mass muta arguably the best counter in the game is ravens with marine support.


No one said Raven's suck... I said seeker missile sucks.. because it does. Just saying there are better options for Terran and more importantly I prefer PDD and Auto-turret to awful seeker missile. Seeker missile is something you maybe could get lucky with once and while other than that it's just not very good.

Terran is almost never at a point where he can afford to get enough Raven's for seeker missiles to be effective. It's really not hard to dodge seeker missiles / see the raven coming and just fall back.

They are fine in FFA though because you can sit back and let others fight to get those mass ravens needed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11669386*
> I love FFA's. Even if you play it perfect, you still can lose.
> 
> I love staying quiet and building like 30 void rays, which kill eveything! Unstoppable after you get that many.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11669412*
> So you're that guy huh? Jerk.










The last FFA we all played with Neva, both me and rhed5 took you out doom. Not sure if you recall, but, I opened a nydus near the back of your base with slings+roaches and he took the front with mass slings, lol. Unfortunately, we didn't pressre Neva and he just expanded, went mass stalkers and wiped us both out








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11669466*
> Why the hating on ravens? I play zerg and ravens look pretty good to me. Seeker missile can chase mutas off a base and keep siege tanks from being sniped. Autoturret and PPD are great for instant air defense. If a zerg has invested in mass muta arguably the best counter in the game is ravens with marine support.
> 
> And ravens let you wreck all the creep spread. That's pretty important.


I wouldn't say he hating as much as saying autoturrets and PPD are much better to use than seeker missiles which I agree to. I think increasing seeker missile speed would help make them more viable, hmm, maybe I should make a thread on the b.net forums to see what ppl think :?


----------



## DoomDash

In beta seeker missile was pretty sick. Shot range was 9 I believe ( vs 6 now ), and the splash was bigger!

Oh but it was also BC tech lol.

I actually think I'd keep it the beta way... BC tech with how it was.


----------



## rhed5

Seeker missile is really stupid. So expensive, so much mana and when you actually get to use it, they can just run from the missile! However Raven's are alread good and don't need a buff.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I have no problems with Raven's... just telling people seeker missile is garbage for the energy... unless you get lucky or the player you are playing is not paying attention.

Think about the ideal units to use it on: Muta / Banes / Slings. Those things are hella fast and can easily out run it or split in time. Maybe it's good vs marines but who cares heh.


----------



## poroboszcz

I just played someone on the ladder with 7000 1v1 games played and 11.5 k league games altogether. WTH LOL


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11669567*
> they can just run from the missile!


That's kinda the point, isn't it? You clear out the enemy with the seeker missiles. Make them run until they're way out of position. It buys you time, quite a lot of time actually. You can use it to move siege tanks into position or break up a muta attack on your base or your troops, etc. It's very useful to be able to make your enemy run away from you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11669973*
> I just played someone on the ladder with 7000 1v1 games played and 11.5 k league games altogether. WTH LOL


WOW







Most I've seen is 3k or so but 11.5k? Maybe they go into team games and then leave, because, there is NO way to have played 11.5k games in the span of 6 month unless you are on 24/7 and even then it's almost impossible :/


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


WOW







Most I've seen is 3k or so but 11.5k? Maybe they go into team games and then leave, because, there is NO way to have played 11.5k games in the span of 6 month unless you are on 24/7 and even then it's almost impossible :/


It's probably a big family that bought one copy of SC2 and everybody in the family plays on the same account. Maybe 6 or 7 kids are using that account.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


That's kinda the point, isn't it? You clear out the enemy with the seeker missiles. Make them run until they're way out of position. It buys you time, quite a lot of time actually. You can use it to move siege tanks into position or break up a muta attack on your base or your troops, etc. It's very useful to be able to make your enemy run away from you.


You can run 1 muta away and be fine though ...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


It's probably a big family that bought one copy of SC2 and everybody in the family plays on the same account. Maybe 6 or 7 kids are using that account.


You could be correct indeed, forgot about that but even then, that's a LOT of games in the span of 6 months. I mean that's 180 days, which makes it about 64 games/day, that's more than I play in a month or even 2 month


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11670091*
> You can run 1 muta away and be fine though ...


You still need to find the targetted muta though


----------



## DoomDash

Not that hard especially if you already magic box.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not that hard especially if you already magic box.


You mean use it to reduce the splash so only one muta is hit or to find the targetted one?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


It's probably a big family that bought one copy of SC2 and everybody in the family plays on the same account. Maybe 6 or 7 kids are using that account.


Must be talended kids then. He was 2k diamond, which actually is quite low for that amount of games and he played kinda bad. Still he has 7k 1v1's played and close to 50% w/l ratio so it's not from leaving team games. Also 4k from achievments.









Somehow it reminded me about the episode of Southpark about WoW lol.

http://sc2ranks.com/eu/338549/MasterSyden


----------



## Katana

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I have no problems with Raven's... just telling people seeker missile is garbage for the energy... unless you get lucky or the player you are playing is not paying attention.

Think about the ideal units to use it on: Muta / Banes / Slings. Those things are hella fast and can easily out run it or split in time. Maybe it's good vs marines but who cares heh.


It would seem like it's at least a good try for the newb-vs-newb games I'm playing. They tend to just amass a lot of units in one place. Especially if they're fliers and overlap each other, and their battle strategy consists of the A key and a mouse click, then a seeker could do well. It's like a micro-nuke on-demand. But heck, even if your enemy just has a lot of ground units, just trade it out for dozens of those turrets.

If the enemy has nicely spread, or isn't letting you get into late-game without a fight, obviously it's not going to do much.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm also confused about what you mean by magic box, Doom.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11670185*
> You mean use it to reduce the splash so only one muta is hit or to find the targetted one?


Both but mainly to find the muta.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11670186*
> http://sc2ranks.com/eu/338549/MasterSyden


Cybercafe account?

So many games though and not even all Diamond, weird.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11670188*
> EDIT: Yeah, I'm also confused about what you mean by magic box, Doom.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68H8FeZHkWg[/ame]

It's a trick for keeping mutas far enough apart that they don't suffer the full splash damage from thors.

For more detail: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145719


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11670428*
> Cybercafe account?
> 
> So many games though and not even all Diamond, weird.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68H8FeZHkWg
> 
> It's a trick for keeping mutas far enough apart that they don't suffer the full splash damage from thors.
> 
> For more detail: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145719


That's not the problem though. What we were wondering is how he plans to use it to escape the missile, because, all this does is space them out. I guess he was looking at it to space them out and then find the affected muta to move it but it seems somewhat intensive


----------



## DoomDash

It's not very hard believe me I've played against enough ravens in FFA's







. Try marine micro vs banes... that's hard







.


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's not very hard believe me I've played against enough ravens in FFA's







. Try marine micro vs banes... that's hard







.


Pshh ain't nothing for marineking prime.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's not very hard believe me I've played against enough ravens in FFA's







. Try marine micro vs banes... that's hard







.


Well, I've never had seeker missile used again me before, so, I can't really comment on how easy or hard it is









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


Pshh ain't nothing for marineking prime.


lol, thus the name marineking prime!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blooregard;11670965*
> Pshh ain't nothing for marineking prime.


Really? I've seen him lose to banes many many times even with the best micro in the damn world.







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Really? I've seen him lose to banes many many times even with the best micro in the damn world.







.


hmm, wonder if he just put seperate groups of marines to control groups and then went 1,click,2,click,3,click, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think he even uses control groups for his marines.


----------



## thiru

MarineKing micros his marines like the computer AI does.

One by one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't think he even uses control groups for his marines.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


MarineKing micros his marines like the computer AI does.

One by one.


Interesting, I thought it might be the case because I didn't think he'll want to use control groups for just marines. I can see that being done with a ton of practice since marines are clumped together and you need to be able to click pretty fast


----------



## Blooregard

I watched that replay of Doomdash and Win. That terran has a bad habit of queing up units and never scouts. He also invests in a bunker which doesn't serve much of a purpose early game at 5:30, got early upgrades(stim and combat shields) that weren't really utilized until mid game. While WIN never saturated his expansion and never had a follow up to his all in dt rush. He also stopped probe production and never utilized his cronoboost or his tech structures. But thats my opinion of the game.


----------



## thiru

That was a joke. He'd need an APM of ~1000 to achieve that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


I watched that replay of Doomdash and Win. That terran has a bad habit of queing up units and never scouts. He also invests in a bunker which doesn't serve much of a purpose early game at 5:30, got early upgrades(stim and combat shields) that weren't really utilized until mid game. While WIN never saturated his expansion and never had a follow up to his all in dt rush. He also stopped probe production and never utilized his cronoboost or his tech structures. But thats my opinion of the game.


I scouted with my factory. Also yeah I queue up units I don't remember being that bad about it. Second game I was very flustered and still recovering for a very long time so I wouldn't say that was ideal. Also the other game I hid a SCV in his base and scouted his entire tech. I saw a stargate and adjusted my build by adding a barracks instead of getting cannons. Not sure what you wanted me to do.

Also you've never played TvP on scrap have you? No bunker? Gate push before stim / shield / ghost = Dead Terran. Plus I find bunkers to make me feel way safer, especially vs Protoss. It is refundable after all.


----------



## Thrive

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I scouted with my factory. Also yeah I queue up units I don't remember being that bad about it. Second game I was very flustered and still recovering for a very long time so I wouldn't say that was ideal. Also the other game I hid a SCV in his base and scouted his entire tech. I saw a stargate and adjusted my build by adding a barracks instead of getting cannons. Not sure what you wanted me to do.

Also you've never played TvP on scrap have you? No bunker? Gate push before stim / shield / ghost = Dead Terran. Plus I find bunkers to make me feel way safer, especially vs Protoss. It is refundable after all.


ya i play zvp all the time and usually i like to make many spines so the protoss cant warp in units from the back when they fly in there warp prosms. if u see the stargat u can mass marines cause marines counter all air protoss units and u can win victory over the protiss really easily. its only bad when he goes colosis then ur marines die quickly because of the long range of the laser beems. actually it is bad for u to mass out the queeue becuz u lose money for each one of the units u are building inside the building and u couldve use this muney to build supply depots or more factorys for fors.


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I scouted with my factory. Also yeah I queue up units I don't remember being that bad about it. Second game I was very flustered and still recovering for a very long time so I wouldn't say that was ideal.

Also you've never played TvP on scrap have you? No bunker? Gate push before stim / shield / ghost = Dead Terran.


Well I don't think you know your timings well because you would know at 5:30 protoss can't get that many units out, but you wouldn't know right because you didn't scout after your first scv scout until 11 mins with your factory. Your first scv saw what every protoss opens with gateway and gas. With that you had a build already so regardless what you saw you woulda just stuck with your original build. Also by 5:30 you had concussive so i don't see how you can't hold with units alone because mm owns gateway. There is no purpose in getting upgrades soo fast because you don't even utilize them so they're just a wasted investment. At a time you had 8 marauders qued up... do the math, enough for an expansion. Also scrap is one of the longest rush distances so if your that scared just keep a scv on the watch tower.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure the 8 marauders was a mistake, which game was it?

But I'm very familiar with timings and it sounds like you underestimate Protoss gateway units. I've been rushed many times on that map even pretty early. In fact I remember the last time I happened I tried to skip the bunker and I told myself I would never do that again.

There is a sweet spot like I said, before stim / shield that Protoss can actually have a big advantage ( due to adding on tech labs and reactors ). I've played at least 300 TvP's and I'm very familiar with this match up. **** look at the overclock.net tournament results. I played like 6 Protoss's and only lost in the finals 2-3 to a guy in the top 200. He also said I had great timing.


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm sure the 8 marauders was a mistake, which game was it?

But I'm very familiar with timings and it sounds like you underestimate Protoss gateway units. I've been rushed many times on that map even pretty early. In fact I remember the last time I happened I tried to skip the bunker and I told myself I would never do that again.

There is a sweet spot like I said, before stim / shield that Protoss can actually have a big advantage ( due to adding on tech labs and reactors ). I've played at least 300 TvP's and I'm very familiar with this match up. **** look at the overclock.net tournament results. I played like 6 Protoss's and only lost in the finals 2-3 to a guy in the top 200.


Alright test it out 1v1 me. I'm pretty bad but I think I can do fine against you. If anything I'm just another noob protoss.


----------



## thiru

Can I watch?


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can I watch?


I'm fine with it as long as he is.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


Alright test it out 1v1 me. I'm pretty bad but I think I can do fine against you. If anything I'm just another noob protoss.


Give me your SN and code.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


I watched that replay of Doomdash and Win. That terran has a bad habit of queing up units and never scouts. He also invests in a bunker which doesn't serve much of a purpose early game at 5:30, got early upgrades(stim and combat shields) that weren't really utilized until mid game. While WIN never saturated his expansion and never had a follow up to his all in dt rush. He also stopped probe production and never utilized his cronoboost or his tech structures. But thats my opinion of the game.


I haven't seen his replay, but, what's wrong with queuing some units if you have the resources and know you are going for, let's say MMM, so, you obviously aren't going to just make one marine then make another once the first is done, smart thing to do would be to queue up marines, 3 at once or so each rax then add more







Also, if he was going MM, getting stim/combat shields is really important especially early in the game and biological units are used a lot in T games, so, personally think it's a good idea








Also, I think getting a bunker is a good idea, they are salvagable and if you aren't blocking off, you'll need it against P. I know I always get one whenever I go against P


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I haven't seen his replay, but, what's wrong with queuing some units if you have the resources and know you are going for, let's say MMM, so, you obviously aren't going to just make one marine then make another once the first is done, smart thing to do would be to queue up marines, 3 at once or so each rax then add more







Also, if he was going MM, getting stim/combat shields is really important especially early in the game and biological units are used a lot in T games, so, personally think it's a good idea










Not at all, Queuing is bad, it just hides the trust fund. That money could be spent to make another Barracks to produce even more units.

And yes, that is what you are supposed to do, make marine after marine.


----------



## Blooregard

I guess were gonna 1v1 come watch if you want.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can I watch?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


I guess were gonna 1v1 come watch if you want.


Darn, I wanna watch but I have to do some things first :/


----------



## rhed5

Lol I'm loving this. Please post results. 
I'll be home in about an hour. I hope to watch if you guys are still playing.


----------



## Blooregard

KK I won. No big Deal


----------



## rhed5

lols!! post rep!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


lols!! post rep!


Please post replay, quite interested to see it


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


lols!! Post rep!


+1


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


KK I won. No big Deal


He won game 1, I won game 2. We are at 1:1 but our hands are freezing so we'll continue later.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


KK I won. No big Deal


Do you have to be BMed about it?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Do you have to be BMed about it?


That's what I asked him after game 2. He just said he hates Terrans







.


----------



## thiru

But... that's racism :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


But... that's racism :/


( He doesn't realize he is Terran yet! )

It's like when Dave Chapple was a white supremacist.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He won game 1, I won game 2. We are at 1:1 but our hands are freezing so we'll continue later.


Nice, any idea when game 3 is? I'm leaving soon but will be on tonight, hopefully I'll be able to catch it or at least watch the replay









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


But... that's racism :/



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


( He doesn't *realize* he is Terran yet! )


----------



## rhed5

post those 2 reps man, let's get some hype going for game 3.


----------



## DoomDash

I did.


----------



## BigFan

^^ Thanks:

Thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1536336729
What race scares you the most? I would guess Z for you doom, banes and all







As for me, well, not sure, maybe random since they could be any races with a wide variety of openings, but, really depends on my race as well


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know. Whatever it doesn't matter to me anymore. I'd say TvT because it's mentally draining and I tend to avoid it for that reason. My least played match up.


----------



## vdek

I bet you regret salvoing that bunker!

Also, bloo, you should have been chrono boosting your warpgates in the 2nd game, or at the very least had forcefield doom and prevent him from chasing you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I bet you regret salvoing that bunker!


Not just that, but I also walked out before I had enough energy for my EMP's...

Both of us are @ human levels.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I did.


If you need practice give me a shout.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^ Thanks:

Thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1536336729
What race scares you the most? I would guess Z for you doom, banes and all







As for me, well, not sure, maybe random since they could be any races with a wide variety of openings, but, really depends on my race as well










Zerg.


----------



## TenaciousRig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1536336729
What race scares you the most?


Gonna have to go with Zerg...I can never really get a good idea what they are up to plus they can mass an army in no time. Every time I play against Zerg I get inside my own head with worry.









Also, thanks Doom for posting up some of your previous replays! I have watched/studied a few and picked up a few things to improve my game play (even though I play Protoss, still picked up quiet a few general game techniques to practice).


----------



## DoomDash

No problem







.


----------



## DoomDash

3 more days till my black widow ultimate comes.... arg.


----------



## thiru

You will never be so aware of... using your keyboard.

lol


----------



## DoomDash

anything will be better than this 1998 VIAO keyboard. Plus its dirty and I don't feel like wasting time cleaning it.


----------



## thiru

I hope you don't mind fingerprints on your keyboard then.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11674625*
> anything will be better than this 1998 VIAO keyboard. Plus its dirty and I don't feel like wasting time cleaning it.


Lemme know how that keyboard goes for you.

Speaking of which, I had to spend an hour yesterday taking apart my keyboard completely to clean it.


----------



## scaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11672512*
> If you need practice give me a shout.


I need more practice want to help me out?


----------



## Mr.Zergling

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TenaciousRig;11672763*
> Gonna have to go with Zerg...I can never really get a good idea what they are up to plus they can mass an army in no time. Every time I play against Zerg I get inside my own head with worry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, thanks Doom for posting up some of your previous replays! I have watched/studied a few and picked up a few things to improve my game play (even though I play Protoss, still picked up quiet a few general game techniques to practice).


Glad to know zerg scares someone lol


----------



## TenaciousRig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Zergling;11675529*
> Glad to know zerg scares someone lol


You know its bad when the first thing I think of when I wake up in the mornings is "gaaah, muta harass!". lol


----------



## Mwarren

So ever since I've been promoted to plat and I've been rolling plats, match making has been putting me up against diamonds......whats really funny is that the diamonds that I have been beating have been worse than the plat players that I have been playing!. Some of these diamond players that I've played against played like gold leaguers. I'm talking around 1500 diamond.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I lol at how so many of my coworkers atm play sc2. They were talking about zergs and toss today. Even the girls play too.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11675775*
> So ever since I've been promoted to plat and I've been rolling plats, match making has been putting me up against diamonds......whats really funny is that the diamonds that I have been beating have been worse than the plat players that I have been playing!. Some of these diamond players that I've played against played like gold leaguers. I'm talking around 1500 diamond.


What's happening is your first being placed against people who most likely will be demoted from diamond league. Once you can beat them consistently you will start playing better diamond league players.

A lot of players simply cheese to get into diamond but lack the ability to play against solid players who can counter their cheese. For example, it's fairly easy as toss to get into diamond simply by 4 gating every single game.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11675953*
> What's happening is your first being placed against people who most likely will be demoted from diamond league. Once you can beat them consistently you will start playing better diamond league players.
> 
> A lot of players simply cheese to get into diamond but lack the ability to play against solid players who can counter their cheese. For example, it's fairly easy as toss to get into diamond simply by 4 gating every single game.


Yea, hopefully ill be diamond by the end of next week.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I hate those 4 gaters. Give us toss a bad name


----------



## Mwarren

Anyone need a practice partner?


----------



## DoomDash

What race?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11676101*
> I hate those 4 gaters. Give us toss a bad name


What's wrong with 4 gating? If you dont do it in every game, it's fine. It's still one of the most solid protoss openers.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Skilless.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676149*
> What race?


I play as T.


----------



## DoomDash

vdek i added vdek on steam .. gave me rachid2k hiphop? is that u?

Also the razer is on sale for the ultimate on amazon, 7 in stock:


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11676172*
> Skilless.


What does skill have to do with a build order? lol. If you catch your opponent doing an FE or FE yourself, 4 gate is the logical choice. Protoss knowledge man.


----------



## DoomDash

4 gate is good. It's like 3 rax for Terran.. sometimes its the best bet. I think it is skillful depending how you use it.

Mwarren what league?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676197*
> vdek i added vdek on steam .. gave me rachid2k hiphop? is that u?
> 
> Also the razer is on sale for the ultimate on amazon, 7 in stock:
> Amazon.com: Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Mechanical Gaming Keyboard - Full Retail US Layout: Electronics


*** $108 for a keyboard?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676229*
> 4 gate is good. It's like 3 rax for Terran.. sometimes its the best bet. I think it is skillful depending how you use it.
> 
> Mwarren what league?


2100 Plat, should be diamond really soon.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No it's just an easy way to avoid actually playing starcraft.

Trying to win on one base? gtheckoutahere.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676197*
> vdek i added vdek on steam .. gave me rachid2k hiphop? is that u?
> 
> Also the razer is on sale for the ultimate on amazon, 7 in stock:
> Amazon.com: Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Mechanical Gaming Keyboard - Full Retail US Layout: Electronics


No that's not me...

Ordered!


----------



## thiru

Anyone watching Day9? Huk came back from 3 base vs 7 base zerg, and 80 food down....


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11676236*
> No it's just an easy way to avoid actually playing starcraft.
> 
> Trying to win on one base? gtheckoutahere.


Who said you have to 1 base? I 4 gate 80% of the time when I decide to throw up a FE. I go pylon > gate > cyber > nexus > 3 more gates. This not only allows me to protect my FE, but I can push back. And if your opponent gets a FE, why would you let him do whatever he wants? You have to react by being aggressive or throwing up a FE yourself.

Come on dude every top level protoss 4 gates but they know when to use it and when not to use it. I dont even like 4 gating unless I go get a FE but saying that it is for noobs is just generalizing lower tier protoss players. It only makes you skillless if you are a one trick pony.


----------



## DoomDash

MWarren add me then DoomDash 190. I actually need to practice TvT pretty badly.

Also that keyboard is supposed to rock!

You can get the $69 version too.


----------



## thiru

When people say 4gate as bad thing, they mean 4 gates one base all-in...


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11676256*
> Anyone watching Day9? Huk came back from 3 base vs 7 base zerg, and 80 food down....


Nice, thanks for the tip.

Now that I tuned in, I know that day9 is casting the root gaming tournament live right now.

www.day9tv.com


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11672435*
> I don't know. Whatever it doesn't matter to me anymore. I'd say TvT because it's mentally draining and I tend to avoid it for that reason. My least played match up.


I would've thought most mirror matches are mentally draining, but, meh








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11674859*
> Lemme know how that keyboard goes for you.
> 
> Speaking of which, I had to spend an hour yesterday taking apart my keyboard completely to clean it.


That must've been nice. I did that once when I spilled some liquid on the keyboard. Took each key out, cleaned with alcohol and then put them back. The keyboard was so clean afterwards. Tried to do the same with my laptop keyboard, broke one of the keys








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11672512*
> Zerg.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TenaciousRig;11672763*
> Gonna have to go with Zerg...I can never really get a good idea what they are up to plus they can mass an army in no time. Every time I play against Zerg I get inside my own head with worry.


Well, massing an army rather fast is a speciality, but, scouting with an observer as P or scanning as T is the best way to go. Also, using something like a barrack to scout will help a lot








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TenaciousRig;11675721*
> You know its bad when the first thing I think of when I wake up in the mornings is "gaaah, muta harass!". lol


wow, never realized muta harass can do that for ya, lol. It's the reason I build turrets and photo cannons around my mineral line whenever I play T/P against a Z








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11675830*
> I lol at how so many of my coworkers atm play sc2. They were talking about zergs and toss today. Even the girls play too.


Nice that they play than not








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11676122*
> Anyone need a practice partner?


I'm always up for practice although I'm only silver, so, I'll leave the decision to play a game to you. Of course, I'm still interested in one game to see how well I fare








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11676256*
> Anyone watching Day9? Huk came back from 3 base vs 7 base zerg, and 80 food down....


hmm, how many workers did Z have? Something that people forget is that with more exps, you'll likely make more workers unless you've already mined a decent part of your exp. My point is, you army max is 200 and 50 drones means a max of 150 and so on. If the Z was making workers, then he'll have less of an army against Huk which means that HuK can go base by base taking out exps while resisting the same army level









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11676236*
> No it's just an easy way to avoid actually playing starcraft.
> 
> Trying to win on one base? gtheckoutahere.


Well, I wouldn't call 4 gate cheese, because, it isn't, however, I see your point about just making 4 gates and then crushing your opponent with it if not scouted


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11676479*
> Nice, thanks for the tip.
> 
> Now that I tuned in, I know that day9 is casting the root gaming tournament live right now.
> 
> www.day9tv.com


Well he didn't actually win









He did hold out for like 20 minutes while being 80 food down most of the time. Brought the difference to 20 food at one point too.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676317*
> MWarren add me then DoomDash 190. I actually need to practice TvT pretty badly.
> 
> Also that keyboard is supposed to rock!
> 
> You can get the $69 version too.


My Filco Mx Brown keyboard will be in my hands in 9 hands.














So pumped. I've been asked to join a non pro team...debating on it.

I won my match due to my opponent having internet issues. Next opponent is a 2100 zerg with 1200 1v1s played. I'm beating 2500s Z's at about 50% so I will probably win.

Day9's music is sickk right now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11676278*
> Who said you have to 1 base? I 4 gate 80% of the time when I decide to throw up a FE. I go pylon > gate > cyber > nexus > 3 more gates. This not only allows me to protect my FE, but I can push back. And if your opponent gets a FE, why would you let him do whatever he wants? You have to react by being aggressive or throwing up a FE yourself.
> 
> Come on dude every top level protoss 4 gates but they know when to use it and when not to use it. I dont even like 4 gating unless I go get a FE but saying that it is for noobs is just generalizing lower tier protoss players. It only makes you skillless if you are a one trick pony.


I never 4 gate FE vs terran or zerg, only Protoss without the expo. You really need observers asap in almost every game. 2 gate FE with robo then 3rd gate is much safer.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11676539*
> My Filco Mx Brown keyboard will be in my hands in 9 hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So pumped. I've been asked to join a non pro team...debating on it.
> 
> I won my match due to my opponent having internet issues. Next opponent is a 2100 zerg with 1200 1v1s played. I'm beating 2500s Z's at about 50% so I will *probably* win.
> 
> Day9's music is sickk right now.


Never underestimate your opponent







There's no telling how well he plays. I've played players much lower than me and was crushed by them, while I've crushed higher level players as well, so, no telling what could happen


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11676539*
> My Filco Mx Brown keyboard will be in my hands in 9 hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So pumped. I've been asked to join a non pro team...debating on it.
> 
> I won my match due to my opponent having internet issues. Next opponent is a 2100 zerg with 1200 1v1s played. I'm beating 2500s Z's at about 50% so I will probably win.
> 
> Day9's music is sickk right now.
> 
> I never 4 gate FE vs terran or zerg, only Protoss without the expo. You really need observers asap in almost every game. 2 gate FE with robo then 3rd gate is much safer.


Looks like you were so excited about your Filco that you lost a finger somewhere


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11676512*
> That must've been nice. I did that once when I spilled some liquid on the keyboard. Took each key out, cleaned with alcohol and then put them back. The keyboard was so clean afterwards. Tried to do the same with my laptop keyboard, broke one of the keys


Yeah, the g15 is pretty easy to take apart. I feel like it was kinda wasted since I just ordered the BlackWidow keyboard. Oh well, going to give my g15 to a good friend for Christmas.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11676539*
> Day9's music is sickk right now.


Yeah, he has some good music on right now. Had to turn my own off.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11676586*
> Looks like you were so excited about your Filco that you lost a finger somewhere


I'll sell it to you for your first born. Haha. Impossible to find these anymore unless your order them from Asia or pay $200 from Europe.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11676539*
> I never 4 gate FE vs terran or zerg, only Protoss without the expo. You really need observers asap in almost every game. 2 gate FE with robo then 3rd gate is much safer.


I dont usually like 3gate robo against zerg. I prefer stargate unless zerg gets a lot of roaches. Robo bay wouldnt be very useful against muta/ling. I think using a phoenix to scout is more efficient than obs in PvZ since it's much faster. You can also do a lot of harassing with it as well. In PvT however, I do like robo bays.

I pretty much only 1 base 4 gate against zerg. Rarely against protoss and never against terran. I 1 base 4 gate against zerg sometimes when they FE and I lose very few of these games. A lot of zergs still dont know how to adjust to this and get greedy by droning up at the 5-6 min mark instead of building some lings/roaches/sunkens.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11676710*
> I dont usually like 3gate robo against zerg. I prefer stargate unless zerg gets a lot of roaches. Robo bay wouldnt be very useful against muta/ling. I think using a phoenix to scout is more efficient than obs in PvZ since it's much faster. You can also do a lot of harassing with it as well. In PvT however, I do like robo bays.
> 
> I pretty much only 1 base 4 gate against zerg. Rarely against protoss and never against terran. I 1 base 4 gate against zerg sometimes when they FE and I lose very few of these games. A lot of zergs still dont know how to adjust to this and get greedy by droning up at the 5-6 min mark instead of building some lings/roaches/sunkens.


One base 3/4 gate is extremely effective vs 1 rax expo or any type of FE in PvP. You can ff around bunkers and its GG. 2 gate Stargate is also very good vs zerg, but if you go voids its all in pretty much. Then again, if they don't scout it most Zergs don't go for hydras that quickly, and they can't afford mutas yet. I've been doing some builds with voids vs Terran and pwning people. Voids with visions and charged up are insane.


----------



## DoomDash

FF bunkers is not popular enough yet. Someone did that to me at point where I thought I was completely safe and it was over. I saw MC do that in the tournament to Jinro a few times... **** is GOOD.


----------



## ThumperSD

Agreed but early game terran is a bit intimidating so I guess that's why I dont 4 gate against them. I usually send in my first 2 units before my warp gates finishes to soften up his marines but that's pretty much it. I use the info I see to adjust my play from there. If you see a bunker though, you should put some pressure since it usually means he is teching.

I only like one base 4 gating against zerg when they FE. It doesnt always win you the game right then but will allow you to contain the zerg while you get up your expo.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676775*
> FF bunkers is not popular enough yet. Someone did that to me at point where I thought I was completely safe and it was over. I saw MC do that in the tournament to Jinro a few times... **** is GOOD.


Agreed. I need to be more aggressive early game against terran like MC. I hesitate because MM generally owns gateway units but FF usually evens it out if you know how to use it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11676834*
> Agreed. I need to be more aggressive early game against terran like MC. I hesitate because MM generally owns gateway units but FF usually evens it out if you know how to use it.


As I was saying to that Protoss player on here who challenged me earlier, there is a sweet spot in PvT where your gateway units will be more powerful than Terran ( not right away, but before stim and shield ). That's exactly when MC was hitting Jinro.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11676863*
> As I was saying to that Protoss player on here who challenged me earlier, there is a sweet spot in PvT where your gateway units will be more powerful than Terran ( not right away, but before stim and shield ). That's exactly when MC was hitting Jinro.


Pretty much. Even better if you guys are in closer positions. You might not win the game right then but you will soften his units/economy which will discourage him from attacking you early. Use that time to expand/tech from there.


----------



## Mwarren

I've been steam rolling through toss lately going 2 rax expand. scv, marine, marauder with concussion push right off the bat can really hurt the toss's economy. Followed with trading army's while I get out an expo (mainly to lower zeal/sentry count). Then going drop ships.


----------



## ThumperSD

What league are you in Warren? And around what time does your MM get to the protoss' base? I just want to compare that to the time I get a sentry or 2


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11676834*
> Agreed. I need to be more aggressive early game against terran like MC. I hesitate because MM generally owns gateway units but FF usually evens it out if you know how to use it.


Yea its a tough decision. You really have to make up your mind instantly if you see a bunker. 2 gate FE is the better option if you think your opponent is better than you. If your feeling confident, you can try to bust him on 4 gate. It is definitely doable, but the window to hit has to be just right. You can't decide at the the last moment "O I think I'm going 4 gate all in". It doesn't work like that.

Really tending towards the stargate play vs Terran and Zerg FE tho.


----------



## DoomDash

lol @ torrent vs socke.... WOW.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11677016*
> lol @ torrent vs socke.... WOW.


Honestly. I feel like both those players weren't that good in those particular games. I've done better cannon rushes







. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that is was the pressure of $3,500 doa laaas as Day9 would say.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11676697*
> I'll sell it to you for your first born. Haha. Impossible to find these anymore unless your order them from Asia or pay $200 from Europe.


I live in Europe. I'll have your first born for one of these or these


----------



## yellowtoblerone

IS the GSL going on tonight?


----------



## BigFan

Maybe it's just me, but, I find that every time I play against a P or T who has fast expanded, I lose the game. I've applied pressure when've they fast exp provided I scouted it and even then I still lose because I messed up my macro as a result. Now compare that to a match I just had against a P as Z:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/117210-1v1-protoss-zerg-lost-temple#rd:dna
From what I recall seeing, I think he went 2 gate stargate because his phenoixes just pissed me off going around the map sniping my OLs, lol, until I got mutas of course







It's also interesting to look at the game DNA in terms of economy, because, mine takes about half, his is a bit more than quarter(approx).

Thinking about fast exp, I guess my best option in the scenario where they fast exp(2 rax expand, 2 gate/3 gate exp) would be to either concentrate on macroing hard to saturate my 2 bases before they get their base up and then build an army to launch an attack or take a third. What do you guys think is the better idea? I'm talking about playing Z in this case, not T/P because in those cases, I'll just grab a base to be on even footing, but, with Z, I would need to be up by one, however, a third would be harder to defend


----------



## thiru

No, it's tomorrow night.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11678210*
> IS the GSL going on tonight?


Don't think so...


----------



## Allenssmart

first SC2 GAME EVER, installed and jumped into a 1v1 against ai. also first rts game i've ever played. please help me. it's really really bad, how can i improve?

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=174498#disc


----------



## thiru

1. make workers 24/7. Literally.
2. never get supply blocked.
3. always spend your money.

Watch some replays or streams (check the OP of this thread) to see what a ladder game looks like.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11678221*
> Maybe it's just me, but, I find that every time I play against a P or T who has fast expanded, I lose the game. I've applied pressure when've they fast exp provided I scouted it and even then I still lose because I messed up my macro as a result. Now compare that to a match I just had against a P as Z:
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/117210-1v1-protoss-zerg-lost-temple#rd:dna
> From what I recall seeing, I think he went 2 gate stargate because his phenoixes just pissed me off going around the map sniping my OLs, lol, until I got mutas of course
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's also interesting to look at the game DNA in terms of economy, because, mine takes about half, his is a bit more than quarter(approx).
> 
> Thinking about fast exp, I guess my best option in the scenario where they fast exp(2 rax expand, 2 gate/3 gate exp) would be to either concentrate on macroing hard to saturate my 2 bases before they get their base up and then build an army to launch an attack or take a third. What do you guys think is the better idea? I'm talking about playing Z in this case, not T/P because in those cases, I'll just grab a base to be on even footing, but, with Z, I would need to be up by one, however, a third would be harder to defend


Not just you. It's basically how fruitdealer lost in the gsl right.


----------



## CramComplex

Geh...I woke up just now wanting to watch the finals of the GSL...then looking at the calendar it's only the 17th...and the finals is tomorrow at 4am...ARGH!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Maybe it's just me, but, I find that every time I play against a P or T who has fast expanded, I lose the game. I've applied pressure when've they fast exp provided I scouted it and even then I still lose because I messed up my macro as a result. Now compare that to a match I just had against a P as Z:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-temple#rd:dna
From what I recall seeing, I think he went 2 gate stargate because his phenoixes just pissed me off going around the map sniping my OLs, lol, until I got mutas of course







It's also interesting to look at the game DNA in terms of economy, because, mine takes about half, his is a bit more than quarter(approx).

Thinking about fast exp, I guess my best option in the scenario where they fast exp(2 rax expand, 2 gate/3 gate exp) would be to either concentrate on macroing hard to saturate my 2 bases before they get their base up and then build an army to launch an attack or take a third. What do you guys think is the better idea? I'm talking about playing Z in this case, not T/P because in those cases, I'll just grab a base to be on even footing, but, with Z, I would need to be up by one, however, a third would be harder to defend










I always 2 rax FE vs Z now. I love it. It is at times weak to 2 base speedling bane all ins. I've lost a few games to that, but you really need a lot of lings and banes to do it.

For reliability though I would just take a 3rd.

Against P though you can probably do a fast 2 base roach push.


----------



## DoomDash

Cory's Zerg friend just roflstomped me. Jesus good Zergs are nuts.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cory's Zerg friend just roflstomped me. Jesus good Zergs are nuts.


Put up a replay, I'm curious to see what he did.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cory's Zerg friend just roflstomped me. Jesus good Zergs are nuts.


The first game was good with the bunker, you almost had it. I find that containing him is your best chance of winning.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Put up a replay, I'm curious to see what he did.


Never mind the whining game two. When you play this game as often as me you care too much lol:


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Never mind the whining game two. When you play this game as often as me you care too much lol:






I'll check them out when I get back from work, this should be interesting.


----------



## Nevaziah

**** did you guys see the battlecruiser rush Funday MOnday? that TvP game on Xel Naga caverns was ******ED. How did the terran end up winning ? sigh... Y didnt he use feedback? he coulda killed the bc so much easier with one feedback+1 storm (2 templars) etcc.... but it was soo funny to watch!


----------



## DoomDash

I wonder if any good players use battle cruisers. Would be super cool to figure out how to make them work vs Zerg better so I could avoid banes all together hehe.


----------



## Sainesk

what league would you guys class each AI as?

for example: insane = bronze league









i've only played 11 quick matches but over 100 against the AI and i'm starting to find very hard a piece of cake with the advice i've read in this thread.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Geh...I woke up just now wanting to watch the finals of the GSL...then looking at the calendar it's only the 17th...and the finals is tomorrow at 4am...ARGH!


lol, well, you can always try to find a link to the finals after they are done. There are some floating around in this thread









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Not just you. It's basically how fruitdealer lost in the gsl right.


well, he lost GSL2 due to 2 rax, not FE, however, not sure about GSL 3.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I always 2 rax FE vs Z now. I love it. It is at times weak to 2 base speedling bane all ins. I've lost a few games to that, but you really need a lot of lings and banes to do it.

For reliability though I would just take a 3rd.

Against P though you can probably do a fast 2 base roach push.


I think I'm going to start taking a 3rd when they FE because otherwise, I just can't defend against a large army if we are on an even case. Doesn't help my case when my opponent makes another 7 or so gateways with each exp and starts storming all my units, man, storm is just soo powerful. I should really start focusing on infestors and using FG more often, too bad it doesn't drain energy like EMP or maybe mind control and storm his own units, worth a shot









I should probably make more hatcheries at that point as well







I guess the hardest part is getting the right balance when you get a 3rd up because too early and eco with suffer, but, too late and it's a bad idea because he would have an army by then and is probably going to attack any sec.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


**** did you guys see the battlecruiser rush Funday MOnday? that TvP game on Xel Naga caverns was ******ED. How did the terran end up winning ? sigh... Y didnt he use feedback? he coulda killed the bc so much easier with one feedback+1 storm (2 templars) etcc.... but it was soo funny to watch!


Well, maybe P forgot about feedback, I mean I forget I even have infestors as Z, lol and don't upgrade as much as I should









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cory's Zerg friend just *roflstomped me*. Jesus good Zergs are nuts.


Use it as a benchmark to improve your play!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Never mind the whining game two. When you play this game as often as me you care too much lol:






I dunno, while I've never whined in any game and I definitely don't play as much as you do, I still care a lot about winning and losing. I think it's worse when you lose to an attack that you could've otherwise defended against had you scouted









Not sure if it's me, but, when I watched that TvsZ you had with the banes, the game felt rather slow, as in you mostly made the barracks and that one factory before getting busted then you made some more barracks and just kinda waited. Not sure what the solution would be against Z as T but maybe tech up faster as you macro? Mostly thinking how much difference 1-2 tanks would've made in that matchup because they 1-shot banes without upgrades. I also don't know what your new strat against Z is, so, can't comment further. Just some observation^^.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wonder if any good players use battle cruisers. Would be super cool to figure out how to make them work vs Zerg better so I could avoid banes all together hehe.


I would think you can add them slowly into the game but not sure since pros spend their money rather fast in comparison to sometimes stockpiling it in my games









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


what league would you guys class each AI as?

for example: insane = bronze league









i've only played 11 quick matches but over 100 against the AI and i'm starting to find very hard a piece of cake with the advice i've read in this thread.










Not really sure, but, I doubt insane AI is bronze. They get more minerals and faster build times. I think from what I've heard, the best way to beat insane AI would be to rush them early(bunkers, photo cannons, 6 pool), otherwise, it's hard winning against them


----------



## DoomDash

If you tech too fast you lose. 1 tank faster won't save you from mass slings. It's already tough enough holding sling/bane off.

It was a short temporary whine where acknowledge that I probably just got out played. Still think the match up is heavy Z favored but whatever







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*If you tech too fast you lose*. 1 tank faster won't save you from mass slings.


I was mostly considering the tanks for banes, since, they 1shot them, however, I mean if he goes mass slings+blings, MM is a joke even if you micro them like crazy, because, slings+banes >>>>> MM. The reason I said tech up faster is because I was thinking about how thors/tanks would've changed that matchup


----------



## DoomDash

Yes but you fail to understand that you will never make it to that stuff if you don't have a decent army. Been there done that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11683522*
> Yes but you fail to understand that you will never make it to that stuff if you don't have a decent army. Been there done that.


You can't really tell me that every Z in diamond does a bane bust though? It's too risky and I'm sure a decent portion go for 2nd exp and macro hard which means no units for a while. Curious, so, a 1-1-1 doesn't work? The last 1 being for armory, so, 1 rax to block and continually make marines placing into bunkers. One factory with tech lab and an armory as the tech lab is going up. I guess then you can lay down some more rax with tech reactors to make marauders and those marines+thor(s)+SCV(s) should hold off till then, *however*, I'm not familiar with how diamond Z's are, so, this is just how I would approach it.

Next time I'm T, I'll do the above method myself and check the time out to see how well it works in *my* league, then I'll post replay. Hopefully, my opponent puts some pressure, so, that I can at least get a good idea of it's downfalls, although, I'm sure someone has probably done it before. I do think it would work well against T though since thors >> banshees and put a number on MM provided the thor has some support for dps purposes


----------



## Mwarren

Hellions (With or without blue flame) + mm's rape banelings and zerglings. Have you ever tried that unit mix early on doomdash?


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11683294*
> lol, well, you can always try to find a link to the finals after they are done. There are some floating around in this thread


nah i know where to get them already if they're uploaded already...but i really want to watch it live...going to sleep early and hopefully my damn alarm clock rings...I'm like oil when i sleep


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11684365*
> Hellions (With or without blue flame) + mm's rape banelings and zerglings. Have you ever tried that unit mix early on doomdash?


I've tried ghosts / bc's.... I've tired everything.







.

ggs all.

BigFan stop you're not allowed to use my favorite MK character in your avatar!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11685237*
> I've tried ghosts / bc's.... I've tired everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> ggs all.
> 
> BigFan stop you're not allowed to use my favorite MK character in your avatar!


Yea lol, I still think that TvZ is all about base raping to keep the enemy dronning though. Keeping one control group just for hellions and sending them into the zergs base to roast drones while trading army's doesn't seem like a bad idea either.


----------



## thiru

Anyone watching the finals tonight?


----------



## DoomDash

me.


----------



## vdek

who is streaming it?


----------



## thiru

TL will probably have a few restreamers. Look for the non featured streamers that have thousands of viewers.


----------



## ThumperSD

It's not gona be on GomTV for people who did not pay?


----------



## thiru

It's on Gomtv of course. But during the finals, every official free stream is going to be overloaded as usual.


----------



## vdek

It's only $1.95 for the 1 day ticket, worth it IMO. Too bad it starts in 5 hours.............


----------



## thiru

The ticket is for high quality stream. The low quality is free, but gets overloaded during finals (or Boxer games







).

Low quality is fine for me.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11687497*
> The ticket is for high quality stream. The low quality is free, but gets overloaded during finals (or Boxer games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Low quality is fine for me.


just wondering, why does it say "next match not reserved" instead of the usual "X Hours till" on the go live button?

or is it just me that's getting that







, don't want to miss this...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11685237*
> I've tried ghosts / bc's.... I've tired everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> ggs all.
> 
> BigFan stop you're not allowed to use my *favorite MK character* in your avatar!


I've no doubt you've tried a lot of strats, but, even then, you'll less likely to try some strats that might be riskier in order to improve them considering that trying methods on the diamond level can have consequences, as in losing









Sorry dude, but, I got the pic first







I love Scorpion, would say he's my favourite in MK as well. Love the different moves(disappearing act, rope attacks, etc....) and used to drive my siblings crazy just disappearing with him all the time XD Never realized that he's your favourite either, curious as to why beside he's THAT awesome







Also, scorpion played by me >>>> by you, how's that for a challenge! XD


----------



## ThumperSD

I hope MC doesnt 4-0 this. It would be quite boring. I think Rain will take a game or 2 with some cheddar cheese.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11687389*
> It's on Gomtv of course. But during the finals, every official free stream is going to be overloaded as usual.


Hopefully that wont be the case. I was able to watch GSL 2 finals with GomTV just fine.


----------



## thiru

Well if you sign in early it's fine. But after a while the low quality stream and the test stream are overloaded.


----------



## Twistacles

Woah, that xNJakeBake has been my practice partner for a long time. Small world.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11687697*
> just wondering, why does it say "next match not reserved" instead of the usual "X Hours till" on the go live button?
> 
> or is it just me that's getting that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , don't want to miss this...


I don't know... but the game is in about 4 hours.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11687432*
> It's only $1.95 for the 1 day ticket, worth it IMO. Too bad it starts in 5 hours.............


Uhh yea I like Starcraft but I'm not stayin up till 7am to watch the whole series. I can wait till 11 or 12 when they the HD VOD's are uploaded.


----------



## burwij

The TL calendar has the finals starting at 3am EST, so I would imagine they'd get started around 3:45 after all of the intro and incredibly epic mother interviews. Seems like it should be over by 5 or 5:30 unless we get a 7-game series for the history books.


----------



## thiru

GSL stream has started. IIRC it's korean pop and talking for the next 45-60 minutes.


----------



## vdek

I don't think the Gom servers can handle this...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11689396*
> I don't think the Gom servers can handle this...


If you're patient enough you'll get the SQ stream, or, at this point, you shouldn't even bother with it and just get the Test stream.

If it still doesn't work out, get on NYDStarcraft's stream on livestream.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11689420*
> If you're patient enough you'll get the SQ stream, or, at this point, you shouldn't even bother with it and just get the Test stream.
> 
> If it still doesn't work out, get on NYDStarcraft's stream on livestream.


I managed to get on the HQ stream after about 10 minutes of waiting... But it's all a bunch of nonsense to me right now since it's in Korean.


----------



## thiru

Oh I forgot you bought the ticket for today.


----------



## Sainesk

starcraft 2 charades?







am I watching the right stream...


----------



## thiru

Well what do you see?


----------



## Sainesk

nvm, was on the wrong one







was on one where these guys were playing all kinds of starcraft 2 related games like - guess which character says that line etc.

(on the right one now







)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Gsl!

question, have you terrans go banshee thors vs p in late game?


----------



## ThumperSD

Im able to get it streaming fine right now. Im leaving it on just in case though. Gonna put it on mute and play a few games.


----------



## burwij

Artosis looks like he just rolled out of bed, lol.


----------



## thiru

Go Suicide Protoss!


----------



## Ophan

Wow. Name shouting fail already.


----------



## thiru

That's kinda to be expected when you do the finals in a different building than usual. Expect loads of problems.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

MC hammer throwing up the finger shake


----------



## thiru

The cheese was too soft.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont think it was cheese but a bad strategy for that map either way


----------



## thiru

Nah I was just trying to find something remotely funny to say.


----------



## ThumperSD

I think Bnet2 is failing again


----------



## CramComplex

Can't get into the live stream...damn...


----------



## thiru

Worked for me 2 minutes ago (I had to relaunch the stream







)

Try the test stream.

If it still doesn't work, look for a stream with lots of viewers on Teamliquid or just google nydstarcraft.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Executor Hero DT


----------



## thiru

That game was awesome.


----------



## ThumperSD

Game 2 was amazing. I wish MC focused more on upgrades though.


----------



## thiru

Upgraded robo units are freaking awesome.

edit: Gomplayer sucks... sometimes just alt tabbing to it will stop the stream.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Upgraded robo units are freaking awesome.

edit: Gomplayer sucks... sometimes just alt tabbing to it will stop the stream.


No problems here

I dont know why MC decided to engage at the end


----------



## CramComplex

I think he got too confident and those SCV's baited him bad...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't know how you people in NA time zones stayed up to watch previous GSLs. I'm about to pass out if not for this new porn I just dl'd.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im nocturnal =P

I smell cheese in next match


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I don't know how you people in NA time zones stayed up to watch previous GSLs. I'm about to pass out if not for this new porn I just dl'd.


I have the graveyard shift (9pm to 5am) so my body clock is used to it...woke up at 3:30am due to alarm just to watch this...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Im nocturnal =P

I smell cheese in next match


Steppes...hmm...true...


----------



## CramComplex

are efffing kidding me? 5 minute game in the finals? LOLWUT!!??!?!


----------



## thiru

Can someone explain to me what happened in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd game? I'm very confused lol.

Use spoiler tag.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Steppes...hmm...true...


I expected it to come from the other player









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Can someone explain to me what happened in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd game? I'm very confused lol.

Use spoiler tag.



MC made a proxy gateway in Rain's base and picked off Rain's SCVs and marines. Rain opted for early gas and got a marauder out but by that time MC had a stalker out as well so he was unable to kite the zealot and led to GG.

Oh nvm... you meant game 3 -_-


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11690267*
> Can someone explain to me what happened in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd game? I'm very confused lol.
> 
> Use spoiler tag.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Rain faked a second rax and MC responded with mass sentries...after that he went banshee's and killed off all the sentries then was forced to go collosi...although he was able to defend a lot of pushes Rain went for a all-in-ish attack at the gold expansion of terran...SCV's baited the collosi damage and the rest is history



check ThumperSD's spoilers for game 4.


----------



## CramComplex

Well...that was fast...

oGsMC wins against TSL_Rain 4 games to 1...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Gsl!

question, have you terrans go banshee thors vs p in late game?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I expected it to come from the other player









MC made a proxy gateway in Rain's base and picked off Rain's SCVs and marines. Rain opted for early gas and got a marauder out but by that time MC had a stalker out as well so he was unable to kite the zealot and led to GG.

Oh nvm... you meant game 3 -_-


Actually I meant game 4







or at least the one you just described. How did he manage to sneak THAT in his base??

Also, sorry, but it looks like I missed the beginning of the game 5







these games are happening too fast.


----------



## ThumperSD

MC's responses are priceless









in before protoss is OP
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11690379*
> Actually I meant game 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or at least the one you just described. How did he manage to sneak THAT in his base??
> 
> Also, sorry, but it looks like I missed the beginning of the game 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these games are happening too fast.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



He had a pylon on the low ground and build the gateway on the high ground. Rain scouted it from the start but decided it would put him too far behind economically if he sent his SCVs. It was kind of a lose-lose situation.


----------



## CramComplex

Well that's the end of the GSL...hopefully the Code S's are going to be some wee bit longer games than 5 minutes LOL...now back to sleep...


----------



## yks

GSL 2011 is gonna be where it's at.

The CODE S games are gonna tear it up.

So is the team league.


----------



## DoomDash

I remember all the Protoss players saying that Protoss wasn't good because they weren't many in Gom.

Terran, the second place race.
lol game 1 rain going tanks! idiot.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow this is such a great page for so many people:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...g_with_anxiety


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wow this is such a great page for so many people:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...g_with_anxiety


Funny, I never have anxiety while laddering. I guess it comes down to how much you care about your rank.


----------



## DoomDash

I do.

speaking of ladder. TvT fail contain ftw!


He was 2500. I can't believe he let me get away with that.

Yes I queue up too many Marauders here as well. I usually hit DDAA a bunch but I forget that maeks a lot less marines and a lot more marauders queued. Will have to work on this. I catch myself sometimes.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I remember all the Protoss players saying that Protoss wasn't good because they weren't many in Gom.

Terran, the second place race.
lol game 1 rain going tanks! idiot.


Is there a button to hide?

MC is beast, and convincingly above rain skill wise.


----------



## DoomDash

I agree. Just saying in general I think that they were wrong the entire time. I've said it before and a ton of Protoss players including tons of pros agree.. Protoss has all the tools, but the players keep screwing it up. This time they finally used the tools in their belt the way they should.

If I had a dollar for every time huk threw away a game...


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I agree. Just saying in general I think that they were wrong the entire time. I've said it before and a ton of Protoss players including tons of pros agree.. Protoss has all the tools, but the players keep screwing it up. This time they finally used the tools in their belt the way they should.

If I had a dollar for every time huk threw away a game...


I think protoss is the strongest race, especially against zerg. PvZ becomes ridiculously imbalanced when the game continues past 15 minutes.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't agree with that, P and Z have some pretty awesome late game and I would say it's debatable for either side. I think in a very simple sense you'd be right, but most people under estimate Zerg's ability to tech switch faster than Protoss or Terran late game. Sure a 200/200 army is stronger for Protoss but it's that fast tech switch.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=177912

I just tried this and it totally works. Invisible pylon on Shukuras! You can get units to disappear too.

Uploading a video now.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11693230*
> I think protoss is the strongest race, especially against zerg. *PvZ becomes ridiculously imbalanced when the game continues past 15 minutes.*


For the P right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11692691*
> I agree. Just saying in general I think that they were wrong the entire time. I've said it before and a ton of Protoss players including tons of pros agree.. Protoss has all the tools, but the players keep screwing it up. This time they finally used the tools in their belt the way they should.
> 
> If I had a dollar for every time huk threw away a game...


Pretty much what Ive been saying the whole time. The game still needs some tweaking (some addressed in 1.2) but for a game that came out less than 5 months ago, it's pretty damn balanced. If a protoss uses FF, graviton beam and blink wisely, he will have a great advantage. It's tricky though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11690107*
> Upgraded robo units are freaking awesome.


I think it's the scaling. I mean immortals hard counter roaches, but, when they are upgraded, wow, just wow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11690212*
> I don't know how you people in NA time zones stayed up to watch previous GSLs. I'm about to pass out if not for this new porn I just dl'd.


Personally, don't stay up. Just try to find a link to the games afterwards, my sleep is more important








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11691918*
> Wow this is such a great page for so many people:
> http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dealing_with_anxiety


I don't become anxious in my 1vs1 matches, even when my odds of winning are stacked against me and I still care about my points and standing, so, not sure how those two go together








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11694060*
> For the P right?


lol, I think he meant Z. Let's put it this way, Zerg late game might be really strong, but, if the P pressures the Z throughout the game and then goes for SSC(stalker, sentry, colossi) with upgrades, he'll be able to win the game easy. Colossi are just soo powerful especially if you are able to reach critical mass


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11694060*
> (Imba) For the P right?


Hell yeah. Protoss tier 3 mixed in with upgraded gateway units is way overpowered relative to anything zerg can put on the field during a comparable point in the game. As the game goes on it just gets worse for Z. I don't understand how anybody could say zerg tier 3 is as good as Protoss tier 3.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11695716*
> Hell yeah. Protoss tier 3 mixed in with upgraded gateway units is way overpowered relative to anything zerg can put on the field during a comparable point in the game. As the game goes on it just gets worse for Z. I don't understand how anybody could say zerg tier 3 is as good as Protoss tier 3.


It's the same for T.......maybe even worse for T actually. Toss units are just too beefy IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11695716*
> Hell yeah. Protoss tier 3 mixed in with upgraded gateway units is way overpowered relative to anything zerg can put on the field during a comparable point in the game. As the game goes on it just gets worse for Z. I don't understand how anybody could say zerg tier 3 is as good as Protoss tier 3.


What are you judging this based on?


----------



## DoomDash

I **** you not that some 1600 T Diamond player offered to pay me money to train with him. I told him I will practice for free and I'm just as human as anyone else. lol. ***.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11696060*
> What are you judging this based on?


Let's get this out in the open. Zerg's tier 3 is strong(BLs and ultras), no doubt about it, but, their one weakness is that they can't attack air. Also, I would take a battlecruiser or carrier over an ultra or BL anyday







Also, SSC is pretty amazing and hard to defend against. Personally, I think colossi should be toned down a bit and gateway units slightly buffed because mass colossi is almost impossible to stop. I've seen my units melt too fast to SSC even with some upgrades or maybe make colossi target one unit at a time then move, that way they aren't as deadly but can take out a lot of units if left unchecked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11696534*
> I **** you not that some 1600 T Diamond player offered to pay me money to train with him. I told him I will practice for free and I'm just as human as anyone else. lol. ***.










Well, I would say it's a good thing that he believes you play that well, wouldn't you?


----------



## DoomDash

On SCArena I am very appreciated. Seriously.

But it's only because 99% of people are newbs that need help. I tend to talk a lot on forums so it's no surprise that newbs would love some of my advice ( while others hate it ).

Just like on here I'm just a verbal character.

I'm going to murder you in the new MK bigfan. I hope you have a PS3.


----------



## yks

What's SSC?


----------



## DoomDash

Stalker Sentry Colossus


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11696852*
> On SCArena I am very appreciated. Seriously.
> 
> But it's only because 99% of people are newbs that need help. I tend to talk a lot on forums so it's no surprise that newbs would love some of my advice ( while others hate it ).
> 
> Just like on here I'm just a verbal character.
> 
> *I'm going to murder you in the new MK bigfan. I hope you have a PS3.*


well, that makes sense. You have good advice, although, there are some points we disagree on, but, that is life









I was wondering when you'll catch onto that comment







Unfortunately I don't have a PS3







I was thinking about getting one, but, without the TV to take advantage of the PS3's capabilities, there isn't a point, but, I'm sure I might in the near future. ATM, I'm enjoying the Wii. I can always get MK Armageddon or get MK Trilogy using the virtual console for some MK fun


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11696935*
> Stalker Sentry Colossus


It's such a powerful combo, it's pretty much the idea behind MMT or roach+hydra were MM or roaches or SS take the damage while the colossi, tanks or hydras layout the dps









BTW, I have a ps2 and MK deception. If you have that, maybe we can get a game rolling sometime


----------



## DoomDash

You have a Wii? Damn I hope that was a gift! lol. I have 3 friends with modded Wii's, and they are as dusty as ever.

I don't even have a PS3 right now myself, but I love PS3 and I miss mine DEARLY. I don't have an HD TV either... but since you had a 24 inch monitor I assume it's got an HDMI out? Honestly PS3 looks great on a 24" monitor too so you should consider getting one. Look at the MK Collectors Edition stick that's coming out for the new one ( drool!!! ):
http://www.overclock.net/playstation/891004-i-hope-stick-works-pc-mame.html

Plus PS3 is a great bluray player, a great media server, and has probably the best exclusives you can ever get. Nothing on PC that I've played comes close for single player games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697148*
> You have a Wii? *Damn I hope that was a gift!* lol. I have 3 friends with modded Wii's, and they are as dusty as ever.
> 
> I don't even have a PS3 right now myself, but I love PS3 and I miss mine DEARLY. I don't have an HD TV either... but since you had a 24 inch monitor I assume it's got an HDMI out? Honestly PS3 looks great on a 24" monitor too so you should consider getting one. Look at the MK Collectors Edition stick that's coming out for the new one ( drool!!! ):
> http://www.overclock.net/playstation/891004-i-hope-stick-works-pc-mame.html
> 
> Plus PS3 is a great bluray player, a great media server, and has probably the best exclusives you can ever get. Nothing on PC that I've played comes close for single player games.


lol, nope, it was bought by my sister. Personally, like the game interaction, makes for a unique experience







I haven't modded it though, since, I'll rather not at this point









My monitor actually doesn't have an HDMI connection XD It has the usual VGA, DVI, so, I can always connect the PS3 to the DVI connector using a DVI-HDMI convertor, since, the pic is the same. As for sound, I think I can connect the PS3 to some extra sound device or subwoofer, whatever it's called, since, monitor speakers are rather poor from all the reviews I read.

As for blu-ray player, well, my comp has a blu-ray player. Got it a while back, works great from my testing


----------



## DoomDash

But does your PC play Uncharted 1, 2, 3, and the new Mortal Kombat? I think not.

Plus watching Blurays on TV ftw ( unless you have a streaming media server already ).


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k66sNfjz5As[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697235*
> *But does your PC play Uncharted 1, 2, 3, and the new Mortal Kombat? I think not.*
> 
> Plus watching Blurays on TV ftw ( unless you have a streaming media server already ).


It doesn't, but, pc games aren't bad either







Either way, for me, FC=uncharted. Played the first FC and loved it to death, dislike how FC2 was done though







As for MK, well, no, I can't play it either


----------



## DoomDash

Far Cry? I have 2 and was not impressed. In fact I have a ton of PC games and none of them have impressed me really so far.


----------



## thiru

Farcry 2 has nothing in common with Farcry 1 except the name. They weren't developed or published by the same companies.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11697339*
> Farcry 2 has nothing in common with Farcry 1 except the name. They weren't developed or published by the same companies.


Indeed, my point was about the original FC. That game maxed out at 1080p is just awesome to play.

^^I've been impressed by many pc games. All of the POP games, Oblivion, FC, Crysis, Blizzard games, etc.... I guess I'm a pc gamer at heart


----------



## DoomDash

I love PC games at heart as well... but more Half-Life 2 and before that type of days. The games coming out these days aren't on par with old PC days. I also think consoles have better exclusives these days as well.

Of course I still love SCII, and I'm going to be one of the first to get Crysis 2, Dues Ex, Diablo III, ect ect for my PC... but honestly if you don't have a PS3 at this point you're missing out.

I have a nice PC for the PC games, now it's time to get that PS3 again.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697544*
> I love PC games at heart as well... but more Half-Life 2 and before that type of days. The games coming out these days aren't on par with old PC days. I also think consoles have better exclusives these days as well.
> 
> Of course I still love SCII, and I'm going to be one of the first to get Crysis 2, Dues Ex, Diablo III, ect ect for my PC... but honestly if you don't have a PS3 at this point you're missing out.
> 
> I have a nice PC for the PC games, now it's time to get that PS3 again.


I agree, older pc games were done better than newer ones, but, even then, there are still some nice pc games as you mentioned. Crysis 2, Diablo 3, etc... are just some games I'm interested in as well. I don't even have as much time as I want to play some of my PC games and considering budget into account, better to wait on that ps3. Personally, would love to get one that is backwards compatible with ps2 games but those are $700 or so now


----------



## DoomDash

I've owned 3 PS3's, all 3 were backwards compatible models. I had one launch day which I got for free ( after selling an extra on ebay ). I had to sell every single one at some point because I was broke lol.

I built this computer before replacing my PS3 obviously. I do miss my PS3 though as you can see. I think I will get another before the new MK / Tekken Tag 2 / Uncharted 3 / Little Big Planet 2. Still need to finish God of War III and Metal Gear Solid 4!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697692*
> I've owned 3 PS3's, all 3 were backwards compatible models. I had one launch day which I got for free ( after selling an extra on ebay ). I had to sell every single one at some point because I was broke lol.
> 
> I built this computer before replacing my PS3 obviously. I do miss my PS3 though as you can see. I think I will get another before the new MK / Tekken Tag 2 / Uncharted 3 / Little Big Planet 2. Still need to finish God of War III and Metal Gear Solid 4!


Well, you know your financial situation better than I do, so, do what works







I never played Tekken, uncharted, LBP, GOW or MGS, so, I can't exactly see what I'm missing









Based on what you wrote, I really think you'll enjoy the POP series. Give the 2nd in the series a try, Warrior Within. Believe me, you'll max it out easy and the combat with the atmosphere is just amazing, I know I enjoyed it a lot







Still can't believe how Ubisoft messed up the game with their latest version


----------



## DoomDash

I must admit I never played the PoP series. They make all the games on consoles too correct? That would be a game I would probably prefer on console. PC games I prefer on PC are like : RTS, FPS, Diablo-style, Worms, ect. Everything else like : Racing, Fighting, 3rd person, ect I like on console more.

I did enjoy the movie.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11695716*
> Hell yeah. Protoss tier 3 mixed in with upgraded gateway units is way overpowered relative to anything zerg can put on the field during a comparable point in the game. As the game goes on it just gets worse for Z. I don't understand how anybody could say zerg tier 3 is as good as Protoss tier 3.


I actually meant the other way around.

Lets not get T3 and late game mixed up here. Yes they are related but you have to separate them at times when you want to compare something.

Protoss T3 is supposed to be stronger then zerg T3. Why? Because zerg reproduce at a much quicker rate. Zerg requires a completely different strategy. Watch the Day9 daily below and you will understand what Im talking about:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14L4OD5JVNs[/ame]

It's much more than just protoss T3 vs zerg T3; it's about decision making
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697148*
> You have a Wii? Damn I hope that was a gift! lol. I have 3 friends with modded Wii's, and they are as dusty as ever.
> 
> I don't even have a PS3 right now myself, but I love PS3 and I miss mine DEARLY. I don't have an HD TV either... but since you had a 24 inch monitor I assume it's got an HDMI out? Honestly PS3 looks great on a 24" monitor too so you should consider getting one. Look at the MK Collectors Edition stick that's coming out for the new one ( drool!!! ):
> http://www.overclock.net/playstation/891004-i-hope-stick-works-pc-mame.html
> 
> Plus PS3 is a great bluray player, a great media server, and has probably the best exclusives you can ever get. Nothing on PC that I've played comes close for single player games.


Ive a fully backwards compatible PS3 with a 320gb HDD. It looks great on my 42" LCD @ 1080. I barely use it anymore but I would never sell it.


----------



## DoomDash

Did you guys see Slush baneling bust PainUser on Jungle today? 3 rax, 2 depots, add-ons, and 2 bunkers ... guess who won easily?


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11698114*
> Did you guys see Slush baneling bust PainUser on Jungle today? 3 rax, 2 depots, add-ons, and 2 bunkers ... guess who won easily?


I missed that for the 3 minutes I was on OCN. I counter that question with this: Did anyone see the 12 drone rush in game 2? I was laughing so hard. CC lifted off before SCVs could get inside.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rpg2;11698134*
> I missed that for the 3 minutes I was on OCN. I counter that question with this: Did anyone see the 12 drone rush in game 2? I was laughing so hard. CC lifted off before SCVs could get inside.


Yeah I did see that. Same thing Morrow did recently to a different T and won.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11698114*
> Did you guys see Slush baneling bust PainUser on Jungle today? 3 rax, 2 depots, add-ons, and 2 bunkers ... guess who won easily?


3 rax is all in...need tanks to combat banes.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11698448*
> 3 rax is all in...need tanks to combat banes.


Not all in at all. Maybe the proxy he did though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11697876*
> I must admit I never played the PoP series. They make all the games on consoles too correct? That would be a game I would probably prefer on console. PC games I prefer on PC are like : RTS, FPS, Diablo-style, Worms, ect. Everything else like : Racing, Fighting, 3rd person, ect I like on console more.
> 
> I did enjoy the movie.


Actually for the game, it's better to have a mouse, makes life much easier when taking on multiple enemies especially because you'll get attacked by a lot of groups. Give the games a try, pretty confident you'll love them although the first one doesn't have the free-form fighting system, but, still plays well. If it was me, I would go for the first, for the story, then the second and third








Link- [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7kEj9eT1cc[/ame]
Link2- [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6012UoGTuc[/ame] (More indepth)


----------



## Allenssmart

guys can u help me? due to random bsods i decided to reinstall windows 7. i'm using catalyst 10.4 and I'm missing random stuff in sc2.

Like i can't see half my minerals, I can't see supply depots that i've build. I know i've built them because the supply goes up but i can't see the supply depot, nor can i select it by dragging a square around it. same goes for the scv that i sent to make it, if i put it to a place around where i built the supply depot, it will go missing.


----------



## thiru

Use newer drivers? This was mentioned in a patch or driver note somewhere... since your game is obviously patched, I guess the fix is inside a newer patch.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11698706*
> Use newer drivers? This was mentioned in a patch or driver note somewhere... since your game is obviously patched, I guess the fix is inside a newer patch.


hmm.... that game was me playing with a friend on hotel internet in hawaii. could it be the lag?

after that, i started a private game with my host. it was till like that.

then, i closed the game and restarted it. it works fine. i think the lag caused it to remember the lost textures or something. the game is patched up to max, but my drivers are 10.4 because 10.10e and 10.12 give me bsods.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11698971*
> hmm.... that game was me playing with a friend on hotel internet in hawaii. could it be the lag?
> 
> after that, i started a private game with my host. it was till like that.
> 
> then, i closed the game and restarted it. it works fine. i think the lag caused it to remember the lost textures or something. the game is patched up to max, but my drivers are 10.4 because 10.10e and 10.12 give me bsods.


sorry, little confused here. This is what I gathered:
The game you posted was with a friend when you were in a hotel then you started having issues wondering if it's the lag but that fixed itself when you restarted the game, so, the issue was there at one point but isn't atm?


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11699061*
> sorry, little confused here. This is what I gathered:
> The game you posted was with a friend when you were in a hotel then you started having issues wondering if it's the lag but that fixed itself when you restarted the game, so, the issue was there at one point but isn't atm?


yep. my friend was at a hotel in hawaii hosting. i joined, i was missing supply depots and scvs.

after, i hosted my own multiplyaer game and same thing. missing scvs, supply depots, barracks, etc.

i quit the game, restarted, its good. also, BEFORE ALL THIS I HAD PLAYED BEFORE BUT SINGLEPLAYER, NO PROBLEMS. is it just the lag?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11699075*
> yep. my friend was at a hotel in hawaii hosting. i joined, i was missing supply depots and scvs.
> 
> after, i hosted my own multiplyaer game and same thing. missing scvs, supply depots, barracks, etc.
> 
> i quit the game, restarted, its good. also, BEFORE ALL THIS I HAD PLAYED BEFORE BUT SINGLEPLAYER, NO PROBLEMS. *is it just the lag?*


I don't think lag can do such a thing, however, I would just keep an eye on it, as in play the game, but, if you experience missing textures again and a restart doesn't solve the issue, then it's a problem


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11699091*
> I don't think lag can do such a thing, however, I would just keep an eye on it, as in play the game, but, if you experience missing textures again and a restart doesn't solve the issue, then it's a problem


hmm thats weird. it never happens in single player. i'll keep an eye on it, thanks.

also do u recommend any drivers that will help sc2 but not give me bsods? (COUGH COUGH 10.12 COUGH COUGH) + rep


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11698971*
> hmm.... that game was me playing with a friend on hotel internet in hawaii. could it be the lag?
> 
> after that, i started a private game with my host. it was till like that.
> 
> then, i closed the game and restarted it. it works fine. i think the lag caused it to remember the lost textures or something. the game is patched up to max, but my drivers are 10.4 because 10.10e and 10.12 give me bsods.


My guess is your overclock is no longer stable. SC2 is heavily dependant on the cpu. Try testing your overclock with Prime95 and linX.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11699113*
> hmm thats weird. it never happens in single player. i'll keep an eye on it, thanks.
> 
> also do u recommend any drivers that will help sc2 but not give me bsods? (COUGH COUGH 10.12 COUGH COUGH) + rep


np. As for drivers, I haven't been following them myself, I think still on 197 or so in my case and the latest is 260+







so I wouldn't be able to help you then. Post a question in the ATI drivers subforum and see what you get, they'll be able to help you more, unless someone in this thread has an ATI card and already knows the best drivers for it


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11699130*
> My guess is your overclock is no longer stable. SC2 is heavily dependant on the cpu. Try testing your overclock with Prime95 and linX.


i'm at stock, both gpu and cpu cause my computer kept bsoding so i completely did a clean reinstall of win 7. i'm testing at stock to see if its a hardware issue, to see if i'll get anymore bsods. should not be a stability problem


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11699130*
> My guess is your overclock is no longer stable. SC2 is heavily dependant on the cpu. Try testing your overclock with Prime95 and linX.


hmm, I was thinking about, but, would an OC cause him to lose some textures in the game? I would think BSODs or slowdowns, since, those are usually attributed to OCs. I was thinking more along the lines of gpu but if this happened only once so far and is fine now, then he just needs to watch it carefully


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11699157*
> hmm, I was thinking about, but, would an OC cause him to lose some textures in the game? I would think BSODs or slowdowns, since, those are usually attributed to OCs. I was thinking more along the lines of gpu but if this happened only once so far and is fine now, then he just needs to watch it carefully


Your probably right. I was just assuming it's an unstable overclock in general. GPU or CPU. No reason to run your gpu at anything but stock for this game. The 5970 is more than overkill for max @ 1920x1080.

If you if you are still getting errors have you tried other games? If it's just SC it's a driver issue. If other benchmarks/games are giving you errors you gpu is likely faulty.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11699227*
> Your probably right. I was just assuming it's an unstable overclock in general. GPU or CPU. No reason to run your gpu at anything but stock for this game. The 5970 is more than overkill for max @ 1920x1080.


That 5970 is definitely overkill. Was thinking maybe he disable crossfire to see if one would fix his issues but not sure if that's possible?


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11699227*
> Your probably right. I was just assuming it's an unstable overclock in general. GPU or CPU. No reason to run your gpu at anything but stock for this game. The 5970 is more than overkill for max @ 1920x1080.
> 
> If you if you are still getting errors have you tried other games? If it's just SC it's a driver issue. If other benchmarks/games are giving you errors you gpu is likely faulty.


hmm..... i'll try bc2.

i've always had my doubts about my 5970, its a super poor overclocker and i've had quite a few problems with it. it can't do 900Mhz at 1.174, despite people getting 950 at 1.162.

@bigfan

idk if i should disable cf. i'm only getting 80 fps with everything on ultra. when i alt tab out my gpu usage for both is at ~36%


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11699270*
> hmm..... i'll try bc2.
> 
> i've always had my doubts about my 5970, its a super poor overclocker and i've had quite a few problems with it. it can't do 900Mhz at 1.174, despite people getting 950 at 1.162.
> 
> @bigfan
> 
> idk if i should disable cf. i'm only getting 80 fps with everything on ultra. when i alt tab out my gpu usage for both is at ~36%


Well, you won't be able to see the difference above 60, so, why not cap fps at 55 or so then disable crossfire and see if it makes a difference? If not, re-enable, if it doesn, then you got the solution


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11699304*
> Well, you won't be able to see the difference above 60, so, why not cap fps at 55 or so then disable crossfire and see if it makes a difference? If not, re-enable, if it doesn, then you got the solution


what would disabling it fix? and how do u disable it?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11699396*
> what would disabling it fix? and how do u disable it?


Sometimes, some games don't like crossfire/SLI, so, disabling it fixes whatever issues were present. Not sure how to disable it, don't think it's possible, was mostly an idea that I was exploring


----------



## Allenssmart

oh ok. i'll try bc2. and watch closely.


----------



## Sainesk

I play Terran mainly but I just played a 4v4 where I went burrowed Infestors only with infested terrans for that achievement where you have to kill 30 enemies using those, I don't think i've ever had so much fun - felt like having an endless army









are there any good infestor videos around of maybe some pro players (or some awesome Zerg player in this thread







) using them effectively (even if it's just harassing well with a few) so that I can improve with using them when I play Zerg?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You Tube  



 
 artosis casting some good games these days. epic pvp this was.


----------



## yks

You've probably heard the song, but have you seen the Music Video?

  
 You Tube


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You've probably heard the song, but have you seen the Music Video?


Ummm ok......


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i'm sticking with 10.4 as my drivers. what cf profiles should i use?


----------



## DoomDash

Since battle.net decided to stop pairing me with 2500+ players I'm favored with, I finally am past 2200. Getting to play 2500+ players I'm not favored against and I get huge points now yay!

Cory the last guy I played is in your division literally right under you ( Superficial, a Protoss ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11705548*
> Since battle.net decided to stop pairing me with 2500+ players I'm favored with, I finally am past 2200. Getting to play 2500+ players I'm not favored against and I get huge points now yay!
> 
> Cory the last guy I played is in your division literally right under you ( Superficial, a Protoss ).


Nice, bet you're pretty happy about this









@yks Never saw or heard that before, although, I have heard of the song


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/djwheat#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/709270/Team-Evil-Geniuses-Masters-Cup-Series-IV-Live-Stream-.html&medium=369751

qxc vs slush coming up. Go qxc my fellow divisioner!

I hear qxc raped PainUser... impressive.


----------



## DoomDash

Proxy bane nest holy ****.


----------



## DoomDash

ZvT makes me laugh:


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11705548*
> Since battle.net decided to stop pairing me with 2500+ players I'm favored with, I finally am past 2200. Getting to play 2500+ players I'm not favored against and I get huge points now yay!
> 
> Cory the last guy I played is in your division literally right under you ( Superficial, a Protoss ).


Good for your ladder points, but that probably means your mmr has decreased.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11705548*
> Since battle.net decided to stop pairing me with 2500+ players I'm favored with, I finally am past 2200. Getting to play 2500+ players I'm not favored against and I get huge points now yay!
> 
> Cory the last guy I played is in your division literally right under you ( Superficial, a Protoss ).


I keep going up and down in points. I was up to 2680 and then dropped below 2600, and then finally stopped lower than where I started today barely over 2600 :/.

Slush played terrible those games. He really seemed like he didn't care if he won or lost.

Qxc is going to win.


----------



## DoomDash

Hmm.. not sure if that's how it works. Can't say for sure though. But of course my MMR has decreased after getting owned last week. Either way I'm constantly playing people 2500+ so I am probably still decent for MMR.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11707950*
> Hmm.. not sure if that's how it works. Can't say for sure though. But of course my MMR has decreased after getting owned last week. Either way I'm constantly playing people 2500+ so I am probably still decent for MMR.


What is MMR?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11708030*
> What is MMR?


Really you don't know this yet? hah.

It's your hidden rating, probably more or less more accurately represents your skill.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118212

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142211


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11708030*
> What is MMR?


Match Making Rating, it's the hidden rating that the game uses to determine your skill level. Similar to the WoW Arena system.


----------



## vdek

Idra vs QXC Live right now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/djWHEAT


----------



## poroboszcz

That was kinda rape lol.


----------



## vdek

Yah, it's crazy because qxc pretty much raped everyone in the tournament too...


----------



## thiru

Who won?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11709348*
> Who won?


QXC won the finals, but Idra beat qxc for the final boss challenege.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11709394*
> QXC won the finals, but Idra beat qxc for the final boss challenege.


lol, the grack as boss battle


----------



## DoomDash

Filthy Zergs.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11707921*
> Good for your ladder points, but that probably means your *mmr has decreased*.


Likely true which is the reason there is no more favoured against your opponent, etc....









Anyone up for a game? Only played one last 2 days T_T


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11709709*
> 
> Anyone up for a game? Only played one last 2 days T_T


me







i'm still a newb though if that's cool


----------



## cory1234

It would make sense how some people get much higher points with fewer games always playing matches with the opponents favored







.

Idk tho, I think the match making is almost random at times. For example in 2v2R, I commonly get setup with platinum or gold players (In the top 10 in NA currently). While other times I will get 2400+ partners the whole session. I think it's more to do with how many players of your skill level are available at that particular moment.


----------



## DoomDash

2v2 is probably just like, you can never find players as high as you so it matches you up to whoever they can find for you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


me







i'm still a newb though if that's cool


Sorry about not getting a game going, Sainesk. Was watching doom play his game and since I didn't have you added, didn't get a chance to invite you to get one going afterwards









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


2v2 is probably just like, you can never find players as high as you so it matches you up to whoever they can find for you.


Pretty much, if you are near the top, they try to find the best matchup, besides, 1vs1 >> 2vs2 in terms of skills required









Had an interesting TvsT on delta. I won't say much not to spoil it, but, I took the game. Feel sorry for my opponent though, I must've drove him nuts








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant
Enjoy!









Edit: Forgot to mention messing up my macro, my hellion+banshee micro, no exp since I had some pressure and didn't want to give him a chance to build up as well as getting no upgrades and teching later then I should


----------



## DoomDash

The longest one base of all time!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sorry about not getting a game going, Sainesk. Was watching doom play his game and since I didn't have you added, didn't get a chance to invite you to get one going afterwards










no worries, look forward to trying my barracks spam on someone where I make so many flying barracks I block you from seeing anything on your screen


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The longest one base of all time!










lol, I'm confident there are longer one bases than that. Sometimes and I'm only saying sometimes one basing can work well if you get the upper hand on your opponent with macro, micro and constant harass. Of course, if I was to ever make it higher up the league with T, I won't be one basing then, but, it's fine atm









I decided to have another game, see if I can make it 2-0 for tonight. Was hoping to get P and ended up with a PvsT on Steppes of War. I ended up winning this game as well








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...steppes-of-war

This was a long game(43min or so). Had some good macro at start, messed it up then fixed it







Was originally planning to go for 2 gate robo and an expansion but the thought of how strong MM+stim is and the short distance made me decide to wait until I have a decent army. There were some interesting battles throughout the match. I also find that as Z, I tend to be passive until I get mutas then it's all out harass time







but as P/T, I feel like I need to deliver that first harass if possible of course









I won't spoil the game because I do think it's interesting to watch due to the units used, but would say the ROFL moment was at about 40:30. I will also state that I love warp in, such a great feature for P, hopefully Blizzard doesn't mess around with it in some future patch. Now watch away


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


no worries, look forward to trying my barracks spam on someone where I make so many flying barracks I block you from seeing anything on your screen










Fat chance that'll happen, my mutas/vikings/VRs will take them down







Let's see you try to micro your units if you can't even select them


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11711307*
> lol, I'm confident there are longer one bases than that. Sometimes and I'm only saying sometimes one basing can work well if you get the upper hand on your opponent with macro, micro and constant harass. Of course, if I was to ever make it higher up the league with T, I won't be one basing then, but, it's fine atm


I'd say it's the other way around. Stop one basing and you'll go higher automatically. A lot of terrans may disagree though.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11713671*
> I'd say it's the other way around. Stop one basing and you'll go higher automatically. A lot of terrans may disagree though.


One basing is only worth it if you're planning on a big timing push all-in attack. Otherwise it's almost always better to get an expansion ASAP. Personally I like to get at least 3-4 expansions even as Terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11713671*
> I'd say it's the other way around. Stop one basing and you'll go higher automatically. A lot of terrans may disagree though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11713784*
> One basing is only worth it if you're planning on a big timing push all-in attack. Otherwise it's almost always better to get an expansion ASAP. Personally I like to get *at least 3-4 expansions* even as Terran.


Maybe I misphrased what I meant:
If you watch that game, you'll realize that my opponent's SCVs weren't mining for the rest of the game after my first drop. Even though my macro was bad and I didn't get an exp(was going to get one but he attacked(notice the 2 marauders near the rocks)), I had more than ample resources to finish the match, although, if he was able to take my medivacs out, he might've been even in terms of eco









Well, I try to take as many exps as possible. In maps such as JB, I usually get an exp early due to being able to defend it. On other maps, I get a sizable force before getting an exp. I might be trying that 2 rax exp I've been hearing about againt Z, possibly P players


----------



## DoomDash

Why cant you just accept that you one based way way too long? There is *no* excuse for it that game and you know it. Same old BigFan has to be like "actually on a tuesday with the wind blowing south its ok to one base".

Why cant you ever just be like "You guys are right" and leave it there







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Funny game I just had. Screwed up the timing slightly and lost my whole f***ing base. Bet this guy was sure he has it. Shows why you should prioritize stalkers when 4 gating.


----------



## rhed5

Watching oGsMC makes me want to play protoss, but then when I play, I get manhandled =(


----------



## AngeloG.

Starcraft 2 is purely awesome.


----------



## DoomDash

I got my black widow Ultimate in! This feels so awesome haha.

Wow I am so having problems finding the A key ect though.


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11715817*
> I got my black widow Ultimate in! This feels so awesome haha.
> 
> Wow I am so having problems finding the A key ect though.


Could it be the macro keys on the left? I saw heard some people popped them out while gaming as that was one of the main reasons I went with the Filco.

No side macro keys, no shifted F keys and no "razer's edge".

If only Jinro practiced his early game, it would've been more of a match in the semi finals.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know what it is about it. It seems sometimes I can figure it out just fine but I guess I instinctively get confused from time to time. It will just take some getting used to I'm sure. In fact I already think I am getting used to it.

This keyboard is awesome so far.

My only real complaint I can find is the media keys don't work with winamp yet. I visited Razer tech support asking when they would patch it.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11716031*
> I don't know what it is about it.


It's missing the indent that most modern keyboards have:










I'm going to look into a replacement key myself eventually. Don't mind the image, it just happens to show the indent clearly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayzer;11715971*
> Could it be the macro keys on the left? I saw heard some people popped them out while gaming as that was one of the main reasons I went with the Filco.


I wish it were easy to get a Filco still... I really want the ten keyless :/ Going to settle for a BW Ultimate though and mod it eventually.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11714509*
> Why cant you just accept that you one based way way too long? There is *no* excuse for it that game and you know it. Same old BigFan has to be like "actually on a tuesday with the wind blowing south its ok to one base".
> 
> *Why cant you ever just be like "You guys are right" and leave it there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.


lol, since, when did I say that I didn't one base too long? All I said was that in THAT game and in MY league, you can still win games as T/P one basing *IF and only IF* you keep up the harass making it harder for your opponent to mass unitsas well as having good micro to keep your harassing units alive which is what I did in that game.

Even you have to admit I did great with my harass in that game. I took advantage of his siege tank placement, spread whatever army he had thin, kept reloading my harass units whenever their hp was low, etc.... Even with my last marauder, I was able to take out 2 tanks from 4 in seige mode due to using their splash to my advantage. I would say that's decent with not having much experience in T.

Also, why would I say "You guys are right", what fun would that be?







Either way, I still believe that my opinion is valid since some pros one base as well. Haven't watched FD's games in GSL3 but I've heard that he one based a lot. Of course, this doesn't mean that one basing is always a great idea and *I was planning to exp in that game(2 marauders taking down rocks anyone?







*, but, wanted to take advantage of the timing window(retailate when his unit count is likely to be low). I'm still trying to get my timings, scouting, etc.... down and learning how to properly micro my units. You of all ppl should know how well marine micro can take you against most opponents(TvsZ last night)









BTW, congrats on the new keyboard. Personally prefer the normal keyboards, but, nothing wrong with getting better ones if it makes life easier


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11716031*
> I don't know what it is about it. It seems sometimes I can figure it out just fine but I guess I instinctively get confused from time to time. It will just take some getting used to I'm sure. In fact I already think I am getting used to it.
> 
> This keyboard is awesome so far.
> 
> My only real complaint I can find is the media keys don't work with winamp yet. I visited Razer tech support asking when they would patch it.


Yeah, it'll take some time. It'll definitely improve your overall performance in the long run.

Was double tapping ever an issue on the blue keys?


----------



## Mwarren

Ugh, looks like I'm back to 3 raxing. 2 Rax expand seems to give toss too much of an advantage.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11717502*
> Ugh, looks like I'm back to 3 raxing. 2 Rax expand seems to give toss too much of an advantage.


How so? Against toss, I would assume you are getting heavy maraduers with some marines in the mix early on then with an exp up, maybe mech heavy, not sure what works best against P in that case








I'm guessing you mean that if they go for 4 gate All in once they scout your exp, it's hard to stop


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayzer;11717397*
> Yeah, it'll take some time. It'll definitely improve your overall performance in the long run.
> 
> Was double tapping ever an issue on the blue keys?


I haven't noticed anything?

Wow it is hard to play SCII on here. Constantly hitting W for Mule, A for SCV, ect. LOL.

Guess I won't ladder for a few days.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11717800*
> I haven't noticed anything?
> 
> Wow it is hard to play SCII on here. Constantly hitting W for Mule, A for SCV, ect. LOL.
> 
> Guess I won't ladder for a few days.


lol, give PTR a try instead? No points and you can still play games as well. You need to use the keyboard a lot to become familiar with it. Typing also helps a lot if you don't mind that


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11717800*
> I haven't noticed anything?
> 
> Wow it is hard to play SCII on here. Constantly hitting W for Mule, A for SCV, ect. LOL.
> 
> Guess I won't ladder for a few days.


I guess it's not much of an issue, just people blowing things out of proportion.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11717913*
> lol, give PTR a try instead? No points and you can still play games as well. You need to use the keyboard a lot to become familiar with it. Typing also helps a lot if you don't mind that


Or he could try some FFA, Day 9 style!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah FFA probably.

I'm not giving up free 1v1 wins because of my keyboard to anybody PTR or not







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11717502*
> Ugh, looks like I'm back to 3 raxing. 2 Rax expand seems to give toss too much of an advantage.


3 rax is a terrible strategy. It may work on ladder to some point, but you don't see it in any high level play, at least not any more. 2 rax is better because it hits earlier timing window against protoss and allows safe expansion. Banshee openings are also pretty good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11717800*
> I haven't noticed anything?
> 
> Wow it is hard to play SCII on here. Constantly hitting W for Mule, A for SCV, ect. LOL.
> 
> Guess I won't ladder for a few days.


I had the same problem when I got a new keyboard. Took me 2 days of playing team games and customs to adjust.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11718433*
> 3 rax is a terrible strategy. It may work on ladder to some point, but you don't see it in any high level play, at least not any more. 2 rax is better because it hits earlier timing window against protoss and allows safe expansion. Banshee openings are also pretty good.
> 
> I had the same problem when I got a new keyboard. Took me 2 days of playing team games and customs to adjust.


You're kidding right? A lot of high diamonds 3 rax from what I've seen/heard. 3 rax hits at the same window as 2 rax except you end up with a lot more units around the 7-8 minute when 3 raxing. I gave 2 rax a try but it wasn't aggressive enough for me. I win a lot more games against P when I pressure them the entire time instead of going for an early expansion and playing more of a macro game.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't really agree with 3 rax being bad either. It's very good and you can use it in many ways. 2 rax FE is also good but I think its best on specific maps ( which is when I use it ).

Protoss has so many strong pushes that 2 rax FE is very dangerous IMO... so I think it all comes down to map.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11716031*
> I don't know what it is about it. It seems sometimes I can figure it out just fine but I guess I instinctively get confused from time to time. It will just take some getting used to I'm sure. In fact I already think I am getting used to it.
> 
> This keyboard is awesome so far.
> 
> *My only real complaint I can find is the media keys don't work with winamp yet. I visited Razer tech support asking when they would patch it.*


Make sure global hotkey is on in Winamp preferences


----------



## poroboszcz

Show me one GSL game with 3 rax.


----------



## DoomDash

I won my newegg matches in a super super super close series. I was on the edge of losing the entire time. I play ****ty cause I'm nervous but w/e. Vs a almost 2600 Terran ( I'm still only low 2200's ).







whew.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11719414*
> I won my newegg matches in a super super super close series. I was on the edge of losing the entire time. I play ****ty cause I'm nervous but w/e. Vs a almost 2600 Terran ( I'm still only low 2200's ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whew.


Nice, congrats on the win. Guess you are already getting used to the new keyboard?


----------



## DoomDash

Lol yeah right I played it on my old one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11719574*
> Lol yeah right I played it on my old one.


Well, I guess as the saying go, "I am disappoint son" but seriously, I understand where you're coming from. No point in losing the tournament because you can't use the new keyboard, better to switch to the old one, win the game then switch back


----------



## DoomDash

Yep I'm back on hitting the wrong keys now







.


----------



## snowtoday

switch back might be good choice for sure.


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i'm missing random stuff in starcraft 2. sometimes when I start a game, my minerals will be missing by my main. they are actually not there, even they are on the mini map. my scvs are visible, but when I put them near the minerals they just disappear. I can't click them or drag a box around that area. but if i click back somewhere else it will randomly appear again. the only way i can get them is to press f1 to select idle workers, but even after that, i won't see them. whatever they build is also invisible and unclickable. are the textures not loading or what? but if that was the case, then i would still be able to click them/drag a box around them. they just disappear.

should i try reinstalling the game from scratch?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


guys i'm missing random stuff in starcraft 2. sometimes when I start a game, my minerals will be missing by my main. they are actually not there, even they are on the mini map. my scvs are visible, but when I put them near the minerals they just disappear. I can't click them or drag a box around that area. but if i click back somewhere else it will randomly appear again. the only way i can get them is to press f1 to select idle workers, but even after that, i won't see them. whatever they build is also invisible and unclickable. are the textures not loading or what? but if that was the case, then i would still be able to click them/drag a box around them. they just disappear.

should i try reinstalling the game from scratch?


You could try that if you haven't already. Have you checked battle.net to see if someone else has a similar issue? This might be the best route to take


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


You could try that if you haven't already. Have you checked battle.net to see if someone else has a similar issue? This might be the best route to take










do you think its a driver error? or the fact that I installed the game on my D drive, reformatted my c drive and reinstalled windows 7, and just played sc2 off my d drive again. it works, but someone before told me that windows would be missing files and it wouldn't work. i've googled it, nothings really come up


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


do you think its a driver error? or the fact that I installed the game on my D drive, *reformatted my c drive and reinstalled windows 7, and just played sc2 off my d drive again. *it works, but someone before told me that windows would be missing files and it wouldn't work. i've googled it, nothings really come up


My guess is that it's the main culprit! Uninstalling, make sure that your system is clean and reinstall again


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11720687*
> My guess is that it's the main culprit! Uninstalling, make sure that your system is clean and reinstall again


thx bro +rep


----------



## Mwarren

About to log in and roll some heads.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep I'm back on hitting the wrong keys now







.


Now you know how I felt when we played ;]


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Now you know how I felt when we played ;]


I thought about that hah. Man this is hard. Any tips? It's even worse because I hate playing sloppy because of this... I hope I don't give it up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Don't give up, procrastinate instead; It's much more productive.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I thought about that hah. Man this is hard. Any tips? It's even worse because I hate playing sloppy because of this... I hope I don't give it up.


Just keep using it, gotta change how your muscle memory remembers the keys, gotta get used to things being shifted to the RIGHT due to the macro keys. Although, I'm still hitting the wrong keys occasionally. T_T

Every A-Move I did when using it was me hitting capslock =[ Got seriously annoyed.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11719414*
> I won my newegg matches in a super super super close series. I was on the edge of losing the entire time. I play ****ty cause I'm nervous but w/e. Vs a almost 2600 Terran ( I'm still only low 2200's ).
> 
> whew.


ggs. Dunno why you built that starport by the gold the first time


----------



## ThumperSD

Somebody tell why QXC played against Idra even though he won the EG cup already? I dont understand how it works


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11724092*
> I believe sensor towers can actually be used to spot for tanks, if you had moved the one you built in game 2 lower or built a 2nd one you could have negated his vikings sight. Not 100% certain on this since I haven't played Terran in a while.
> 
> ggs though. Dunno why you built that starport by the gold the first time


How would a tank differentiate between a ground unit and a air unit if they're detected by the sensor tower?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11724188*
> Somebody tell why QXC played against Idra even though he won the EG cup already? I dont understand how it works


He won the tournament and gets a chance to win more prizes by playing Idra.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11724188*
> Somebody tell why QXC played against Idra even though he won the EG cup already? I dont understand how it works


Idra is part of EG, he was the final boss. If QXC could have beaten Idra he would have gotten a free MSI GT660 laptop.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11724231*
> How would a tank differentiate between a ground unit and a air unit if they're detected by the sensor tower?


Ah, I was wrong there. Doesn't work :/


----------



## Dousand Thollars

Picked up my copy today :3

Going to play later :3


----------



## ThumperSD

But why Idra? Why not somebody else from EG


----------



## thiru

He's the most famous?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dousand Thollars;11724367*
> Picked up my copy today :3
> 
> Going to play later :3


gl hf


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11724436*
> But why Idra? Why not somebody else from EG


idrA is the best from EG probably.

Also I love my starport there. Works really well normally.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11724725*
> idrA is the best from EG probably.
> 
> Also I love my starport there. Works really well normally.


I dunno, on LT I'd rather build it at the base right next to them. In that case I would have built it in the lower right base. I remember watching a tournament game where they did that as well, although I forget the match...


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11724436*
> But why Idra? Why not somebody else from EG


Cause Idra is probably the best EG member.

And from a business stand-point, using Idra increases their odds of *NOT* giving away a free laptop. Statistics, yall.


----------



## Dousand Thollars

Where should I start out guys? I'm picking up SC2 for the first time and I don't want to ruin my Win/lose ratio straight off the bat.

I was thinking tackle career and then do some vs Comp and then think about 2v2+ games and whittle my way down to 1v1?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dousand Thollars;11725106*
> Where should I start out guys? I'm picking up SC2 for the first time and I don't want to ruin my Win/lose ratio straight off the bat.
> 
> I was thinking tackle career and then do some vs Comp and then think about 2v2+ games and whittle my way down to 1v1?


2v2s and custom games are a good way to learn build orders and tactics. It depends how high up in the game you want to get though. You're going to have to practice a lot if you want to get into Diamond league. The way 1v1 laddering works though, your win/loss ratio won't really go above 60% unless you are really really good or gaming the system. So I wouldn't worry too much about that, it won't hurt to jump into 1v1s right away. You will most likely get placed into bronze league.

The game is crazy competitive right now, but it's not too hard to jump into.

I'd recommend watching youtube videos as well. They show you some of the best strategies used in 1v1s and how the best players play.

Husky has a ton of great videos with amusing commentary:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft

Day9 is a little more analytical:
http://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv


----------



## Allenssmart

anybody want to add me? i got this game about 4 days ago. still pretty bad at it.

thx guys. oh and remember, type ocn in the message or something


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11725460*
> anybody want to add me? i got this game about 4 days ago. still pretty bad at it.
> 
> -
> 
> thx guys. oh and remember, type ocn in the message or something


I would remove your email address, instead give us your name and code(3 or 4 digit number in profile). Your address will show us your real name among other things


----------



## DoomDash

Man I got worked today in ladder. Another 6 loss streak. It seems like I am getting worse sometimes. I am only 15-16 wins above my losses.... I wonder what happens to Diamonds who go below 1:1.

I suck. Losing is depressing heh.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11725637*
> Man I got worked today in ladder. Another 6 loss streak. It seems like I am getting worse sometimes. I am only 15-16 wins above my losses.... I wonder what happens to Diamonds who go below 1:1.
> 
> I suck. Losing is depressing heh.


It's all about the MMR. Losing streaks happen though, you'll get over it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11725518*
> I would remove your email address, instead give us your name and code(3 or 4 digit number in profile). Your address will show us your real name among other things


It's going to be hard for him to remove it when you quote it


----------



## rhed5

Played some games yesterday after not playing for a few days and I felt so damn rusty. Felt like I'm doing things by habbit, never really thinking, still won my 1 ladder game luckily; forgot to upgrade baneling speed in a 30 minute game, opponent called me a noob









Surprising how just even a few days of not playing can make a big difference in one's play.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11719414*
> I won my newegg matches in a super super super close series. I was on the edge of losing the entire time. I play ****ty cause I'm nervous but w/e. Vs a almost 2600 Terran ( I'm still only low 2200's ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whew.


Congrats. How far to the finals?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11724436*
> But why Idra? Why not somebody else from EG


Because he's the best in EG and probably one of the best players in the world. QXC convincingly won against most of EG team, yet he got roflstomped by Idra.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11725637*
> Man I got worked today in ladder. Another 6 loss streak. It seems like I am getting worse sometimes. I am only 15-16 wins above my losses.... I wonder what happens to Diamonds who go below 1:1.
> 
> I suck. Losing is depressing heh.


Just think it's supposed to happen. If you get mad just quit playing, or do customs/team games. Playing when angry will make you do more mistakes and get even more angry. Also after a losing streak you're going to get easier opponents so eventually it will even out.

I've started using SC2Gears, it's pretty cool. Can autosave your replays or analyze big number of replays at once displaying some useful stats. Given my last 20 or so games my win percentage is 100% for PvP, 75% for PvT and 15% PvZ :S

Gonna try this strat today though. Bronze level at its finest.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11725679*
> It's going to be hard for him to remove it when you quote it


lol, good point, fixed









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11725715*
> Played some games yesterday after not playing for a few days and I felt so damn rusty. Felt like I'm doing things by habbit, never really thinking, still won my 1 ladder game luckily; *forgot to upgrade baneling speed* in a 30 minute game, opponent called me a noob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprising how just even a few days of not playing can make a big difference in one's play.


Nice you still won though









I notice the same thing as well, not playing for a couple of days make me rust which is why I try to squeeze in a game or two, although, not always possible


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11725788*
> I've started using SC2Gears, it's pretty cool. Can autosave your replays or analyze big number of replays at once displaying some useful stats. Given my last 20 or so games my win percentage is 100% for PvP, 75% for PvT and 15% PvZ :S


sc2gears is an awesome app, I really like the replay analysis it provides.
Quote:


> Gonna try this strat today though. Bronze level at its finest.


Heh, coincidentally I just finished reading that whole thread before I came here


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11725518*
> I would remove your email address, instead give us your name and code(3 or 4 digit number in profile). Your address will show us your real name among other things


lol

zombiehunter
711

thanks guyys


----------



## fr0st.

I want this game but I don't want to get smashed by everyone D:
I'm EXTREMELY new to the whole genre.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fr0st.;11726775*
> I want this game but I don't want to get smashed by everyone D:
> I'm EXTREMELY new to the whole genre.


i'm sure even the best players get "smashed" every now and then

I avoided league games for a while and just focused on coop vs ai for that reason, but I look at it this way now - at least i'm not the lowest ranked player in the world







(yet)

besides, i'm sure you don't learn as much from winning as from losing...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11726200*
> Heh, coincidentally I just finished reading that whole thread before I came here


I just 2-0'd 2.3k zerg with it. Oo
Gonna test it on ladder soon.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11727074*
> I just 2-0'd 2.3k zerg with it. Oo
> Gonna test it on ladder soon.


It's good against passive zergs who just try to macro and the win with 300 food armies. However, it's not so good against a zerg player that scouts you and is aggressive. Early game, that build is extremely weak, it only becomes powerful late game IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Blinker still far away from the finals







.

Also let me know how that build works for ya.

I bet my TvZ is like 25%. The only match ups keeping me a afloat are TvP and TvT.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just played another two games against other zerg. 2.3k as well but a better player and got owned with 2 base roach hydra. I think it may work but my timings were probably off. If you get colossus on time you may be able to defend. Also I might have not spammed enough cannons.

It doesn't work well on maps like Xel'naga with open natural as well.

Edit: Also the build doesn't really require much skill, so it gets kinda boring after few times. You can probably execute it well with 20 apm.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fr0st.;11726775*
> I want this game but I don't want to get smashed by everyone D:
> I'm EXTREMELY new to the whole genre.


Dont Worry about it. We have a LOT of players at various levels of play here on the board who would be willing to help you practice, heck, I can help you practice too. I have a few more players getting the game soon and they needed some practice matches to get confortable with the game.

THe way the ladders system works is that it will ALWAYS try to match you with someone of equivelent skill. So if you have NEVER played and rts, odds are, you will be pared against the same kind of player in a quick match


----------



## DoomDash

Next opponent 2000 Diamond Zerg.

Wow SC2 gears is pretty bad ass.


----------



## DoomDash

Convince me to play with out bonus pool. I feel like caring less about my points would be nice.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fr0st.*


I want this game but I don't want to get smashed by everyone D:
I'm EXTREMELY new to the whole genre.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Dont Worry about it. We have a LOT of players at various levels of play here on the board who would be willing to help you practice, heck, I can help you practice too. I have a few more players getting the game soon and they needed some practice matches to get confortable with the game.

THe way the ladders system works is that it will ALWAYS try to match you with someone of equivelent skill. So if you have NEVER played and rts, odds are, you will be pared against the same kind of player in a quick match










Pretty much what I would've said









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


*i'm sure even the best players get "smashed" every now and then*

I avoided league games for a while and just focused on coop vs ai for that reason, but I look at it this way now - at least i'm not the lowest ranked player in the world







(yet)

besides, i'm sure you don't learn as much from winning as from losing...


I wouldn't say get smashed but they also lose a lot of games. % win is something like 60+ in their case though, where it's around 50% for us


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Convince me to play with out bonus pool. I feel like caring less about my points would be nice.


Stop caring about your points, there I said it







Seriously though, while, points matter in the diamond level more than the other leagues, it's better to concentrate on getting your game better than losing several games. Losing teaches you more than winning









I'm going on tonight if anyone wants to get a game or two going. Can't wait!


----------



## CramComplex

Gah I haven't been online for quite a while (SC2 that is)...too much work and the holidays are here...1 more day 'till I can play...working 2 jobs might be taking a toll on me...ARGH!!! DAMN YOU OSAP!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Gah I haven't been online for quite a while (SC2 that is)...too much work and the holidays are here...1 more day 'till I can play...working 2 jobs might be taking a toll on me...ARGH!!! DAMN YOU OSAP!!!


I feel your pain, been there, done that, although, I worked very hard to maintain my scholarships throughout university







Anyways, we can get a game going the next time you are able to play







Still need to avenge my loss to your MM after I waited too long to get banes XD


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I just logged on to SC2 and multiplayer is disabled. Can't view league stats either. It says "no league games played yet," which isn't true. Match history is available, but when I pull up a profile of a past opponent their league placement is also not available. Weird.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I just logged on to SC2 and multiplayer is disabled. Can't view league stats either. It says "no league games played yet," which isn't true. Match history is available, but when I pull up a profile of a past opponent their league placement is also not available. Weird.


Same for me and my friends.. lamers


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch*


Same for me and my friends.. lamers


I just found a sticky on the battle.net forums about this topic. The matchmaking system is down and Blizzard is trying to fix it.


----------



## DoomDash

So 1.2 comes out officially on Jan 1st.

I still think 10 sec time off the phoenix is over kill. 5 maybe.


----------



## Katana

What time are we referring to? Creation time?


----------



## DoomDash

Yep.


----------



## Allenssmart

i get home to launch sc2 and bnet is down. wow. i am disappoint. time to play black ops


----------



## Lucas Lamer

bnet is back online. Multiplayer works now.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nice. I love stargate action. Mor foamnixss


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11733266*
> So 1.2 comes out officially on Jan 1st.
> 
> *I still think 10 sec time off the phoenix is over kill. 5 maybe.*


I feel the same. They come out a little too fast though I can see it being more even later in the game to keep up with muta count. I love the observer price drop and SCV repair attack priority though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11733266*
> So 1.2 comes out officially on Jan 1st.
> 
> I still think 10 sec time off the phoenix is over kill. 5 maybe.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11734173*
> I feel the same. They come out a little too fast though I can see it being more even later in the game to keep up with muta count. I love the observer price drop and SCV repair attack priority though.


Why would it be overkill? I think 10 sec is just right and as mentioned, observer price drop and SCV repair attack priority are great as well


----------



## Mwarren

Hopefully they will nerf marines and marauders next. /end sarcasm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11734278*
> Hopefully they will nerf marines and marauders next. /end sarcasm.


I love MM, especially when micro'd well. Hopefully, if they do nerf marauders, they'll do a slight nerf(damage to 17 or life to 100)


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'd still like a colossus nerf. Those big protoss tier 3 armies just walk right over anything zerg has and that really bugs me.


----------



## Mwarren

If they nerfed Marauders than TvP would be an even more ******ed match up. As it stands once Toss reaches T3 its normally GG unless the Terran has much, much better macro which is rare. I honestly dont see a marauder nerf coming.


----------



## Allenssmart

bros overlords are so op. they should nerf overlords man, those things oh my god they get 5 of them and my entire base is destroyed !!!!! /sarcasm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11734318*
> If they nerfed Marauders than TvP would be an even more ******ed match up. As it stands once Toss reaches T3 its normally GG unless the Terran has much, much better macro which is rare. I honestly dont see a marauder nerf coming.


Well, they'll buff the late game for T in exchange for nerfing marauders OR buff gateway units and nerf colossi or T3 units for P


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11734318*
> If they nerfed Marauders than TvP would be an even more ******ed match up. As it stands once Toss reaches T3 its normally GG unless the Terran has much, much better macro which is rare. I honestly dont see a marauder nerf coming.


Same deal with ZvP. Protoss gets tier 3 on the field, I don't have the slightest clue how to counter it as zerg. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to start surrendering immediately to big Toss tier 3 armies just to spare myself the blood-boiling rage I feel while watching my pathetic zergs get steamrollered by the P's vastly superior units. Makes me want to throw my monitor out the window.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11734408*
> Same deal with ZvP. Protoss gets tier 3 on the field, I don't have the slightest clue how to counter it as zerg. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to start surrendering immediately to big Toss tier 3 armies just to spare myself the blood-boiling rage I feel while watching my pathetic zergs get steamrollered by the P's vastly superior units. Makes me want to throw my monitor out the window.


From what I've watched, played, etc... your best bet is to use corruptors or mutas, although, corruptors are more durable against colossi and then focus your ground units on the zealots, stalkers, sentries, etc.... that accompany them. Colossi are definitely powerful, too powerful in my opinion. Would rather have the weaver back


----------



## blackedv

well when colossus are out on the field corruptors take them down fairly quick then you morph some of them into broods with ultralisk support lol. if ya cant tell i play alot of 4v4 so this is all possible in my matches on a large scale


----------



## DoomDash

Still kind of shocked no TvP changes were made on the PTR yet. Also wonder what they will do to make Terran late game good without making early game better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackedv;11734501*
> well when colossus are out on the field corruptors take them down fairly quick then you morph some of them into broods with ultralisk support lol. if ya cant tell i play alot of 4v4 so this is all possible in my matches on a large scale


While I agree that is the ideal situation, my games either don't go long enough for that or I forget that I can tech up







or I just can't afford to get corruptors and find out that he stopped colossi production and went for mass gateway units at which point, I still need to tech to hive, get greater spire and then morph into BLs which is resources taken away that I could dump into army production because he'll likely be attacking soon enough. I can see why it'll work well in 4vs4 though. Your 3 teammates can cover for you while you go for BLs and ultras


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11734539*
> Still kind of shocked no TvP changes were made on the PTR yet. Also wonder what they will do to make Terran late game good without making early game better.


Maybe still testing different options and not ready to put on PTR yet incase they are something rather drastic








Come on, get on SC2, let's have some fun and get some games rolling. You can at least practice with your new keyboard, knowing I'm not some diamond player









Edit: I'll make life easier playing as either P or T instead of Z


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11734473*
> From what I've watched, played, etc... your best bet is to use corruptors or mutas, although, corruptors are more durable against colossi and then focus your ground units on the zealots, stalkers, sentries, etc.... that accompany them. Colossi are definitely powerful, too powerful in my opinion. Would rather have the weaver back


Problem is, colossi always travel with stalkers and sentries, which rape all the zerg air units. P players always say "get corruptors to counter colossus." Nice idea in theory, but in practice what happens is you buy all these expensive corruptors and mutas, and then they melt away like butter on a hot skillet when the stalkers and sentries get to them.


----------



## DoomDash

Maybe after I watch this DC Universe video.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11734632*
> Problem is, colossi always travel with stalkers and sentries, which rape all the zerg air units. P players always say "get corruptors to counter colossus." Nice idea in theory, but in practice what happens is you buy all these expensive corruptors and mutas, and then they melt away like butter on a hot skillet when the stalkers and sentries get to them.


You have to monitor their movement and then hit the colossi when they least suspect it then pull back, etc.... I think that's really your best option. Try using contaminate on the robobay if you see them getting colossi. That 30s delay will really help you to prepare or at least engage before he hits the critical mass of colossi


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11734633*
> Maybe after I watch this DC Universe video.


ok, well it's your choice in the end


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11734652*
> ok, well it's your choice in the end


DC Universe looks horrible.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11734253*
> Why would it be overkill? I think 10 sec is just right and as mentioned, observer price drop and SCV repair attack priority are great as well


It makes an already decent harass even better. That's why I dont like it. I think 5 seconds is perfect.

Protoss usually send out their Phoenixes for harass after they have 3-4. After the patch, the time it takes to get 3-4 phoenixes will be cut by 30-40 seconds which is a change that is too big for my liking. 30-40 seconds is quite a long time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11734408*
> Same deal with ZvP. Protoss gets tier 3 on the field, I don't have the slightest clue how to counter it as zerg. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to start surrendering immediately to big Toss tier 3 armies just to spare myself the blood-boiling rage I feel while watching my pathetic zergs get steamrollered by the P's vastly superior units. Makes me want to throw my monitor out the window.


Did you read my reply to a post you wrote a few days ago? I added a Day9 video that would be very useful for your problem. A maxed P (and T) army is supposed to better than a maxed Z army.

If you post up replays I bet I can even give you some pointers on how you could have won.

I also feel the same about mutas against P. I never win a macro game when Z gets 20+ mutas. Im determined to improve against it though. It seems like the only way I can beat this is if I do a timing push before the 11 min mark but I want to be able to beat Z in late game. Colossi/stalkers arent that great against mutas.


----------



## DoomDash

I like Thumper.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11734659*
> DC Universe looks horrible.


Don't know what it is








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735176*
> I like Thumper.


lol. Sounds to me like you like whoever agrees with your opinion









Just my luck. Had a 2vs2 with EmMule, won the first after the opponent's partner left and I had some fun with rax in his base, etc....







then got dropped from the second one


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11735380*
> Don't know what it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol. Sounds to me like you like whoever agrees with your opinion


I like people who are right, yes.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735390*
> I like people who are right, yes.


God all your posts remind me of me so much


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735390*
> I like people who are right, yes.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735452*
> God all your posts remind me of me so much










You guys should have some 1vs1, would be interesting to see how the games go if you guys think alike, although, I also like people who are right, but, I don't see this 10s as huge as its made to be. Obviously, Blizzard has heard all the muta issues from P players and decided to make it easier for them to counter mutas by making phenoixes come out 10s faster







I'm NOT saying that stalkers can't counter mutas in small numbers, likewise, not saying that storm isn't good against mutas(it's crazy good), same with some cannons near minerals, but, like VRs or other issues, they are catering to the lower leagues as well


----------



## Twistacles

I'm not sure about the pheonix change. I think it's going to make muta harass a lot less efficient, but will make the pheonix/voidray/collosus ball unstopabble.

We could 1v1, I really need to start practicing again.

Edit: Doomdash, are you an ENTP?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735481*
> I'm not sure about the pheonix change. I think it's going to make *muta harass a lot less efficient*, but will make the pheonix/voidray/collosus ball unstopabble.
> 
> We could 1v1, I really need to start practicing again.
> 
> Edit: Doomdash, are you an ENTP?


That's pretty much the only disappointing part. As someone who played Z a lot and loves mutas to death, especially how well you can harass with them, I think this change will be big, but, even then, still doesn't mean that we won't see harass or everyone will go 2 gate stargate, etc....







What's ENTP?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735452*
> God all your posts remind me of me so much


Which means you probably annoy a lot of people







.

I didn't even know what ENTP meant until I googled it. I read about it, and I don't know if I can say I am or not.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735497*
> Which means you probably annoy a lot of people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


oh, wow, lol, I wasn't expecting this kinda response, I mean, umm.... carry on









Edit: Read on ENTP as well, interesting, though I'm still wondering how that relates to 1vs1 practice







Just got sc2gears, time to see if it's as good as it was made out to be


----------



## DoomDash

After reading more on it I would say if I was it would be pretty mild. Somethings about it are more fitting than others. I do have a friend who fits that bill perfectly though. Kinda cool you brought it up.

And BigFan I absolutely know I annoy people because I'm biased, opinionated, loud, and argue. I've been this way my entire life and with everything I felt passion for ( which is a lot of things ).

SC2 gears is awesome!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735555*
> After reading more on it I would say if I was it would be pretty mild. Somethings about it are more fitting than others. I do have a friend who fits that bill perfectly though. Kinda cool you brought it up.
> 
> *And BigFan I absolutely know I annoy people because I'm biased, opinionated, loud, and argue. I've been this way my entire life and with everything I felt passion for ( which is a lot of things ).*


I see, I guess that puts a lot of things into perspective XD

I can annoy people as well, only difference is I can talk a lot about something, pretty much just go on and on and on ..... XD

Edit: Just opened sc2gears, that voice just totally caught me off guard


----------



## Twistacles

Sc2 Gears IS awesome.

The ENTP thing is part of the Myers-Briggs personality test. You can find it online pretty much anywhere, and it'll fit you into a type that will scarily resemble you. I only brought ENTP up because it was my Type and I figured it might be the same.
Quote:


> And BigFan I absolutely know I annoy people because I'm biased, opinionated, loud, and argue. I've been this way my entire life and with everything I felt passion for ( which is a lot of things ).


This is me








If I took a guess that you bm'd a lot on ladder, would I be right?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735591*
> Sc2 Gears IS awesome.
> 
> The ENTP thing is part of the *Myers-Briggs personality test.* You can find it online pretty much anywhere, and it'll fit you into a type that will scarily resemble you. I only brought ENTP up because it was my Type and I figured it might be the same.
> 
> This is me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *If I took a guess that you bm'd a lot on ladder, would I be right?*


Interesting, I like doing tests







so I'll like try to do that to see where I fit









I would think the proper term is he whines about banes


----------



## DoomDash

I wouldn't say I BM actually. I get super upset but the most you will get is me *****ing ( banelings for example ). I don't rage quit or anything.

If you say GG first I will fly command centers around the map though.


----------



## bounceback

Am i the only person who was not feeling the multiplayer campaign this time around? Maybe I need to play it a little more but the 3 or so times i played I did not like it this time. Mabe I felt like the game was too close up or something.

I loved the old multiplayer to death and can play for hours. But this time around I loved the single player....which I liked the first time but I know my heart was in the multi. Am I the only one who feels this way?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bounceback;11735644*
> Am i the only person who was not feeling the multiplayer campaign this time around? Maybe I need to play it a little more but the 3 or so times i played I did not like it this time. Mabe I felt like the game was too close up or something.
> 
> I loved the old multiplayer to death and can play for hours. But this time around I loved the single player....which I liked the first time but I know my heart was in the multi. Am I the only one who feels this way?


I'm sure a bunch of TA/FA/SC ect fanboys will go on and on about how horrible the game is







.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bounceback;11735644*
> Am i the only person who was not feeling the multiplayer campaign this time around? Maybe I need to play it a little more but the 3 or so times i played I did not like it this time. Mabe I felt like the game was too close up or something.
> 
> I loved the old multiplayer to death and can play for hours. But this time around I loved the single player....which I liked the first time but I know my heart was in the multi. Am I the only one who feels this way?


whathe****amireading.jpg

im just going to say that I hated the singleplayer, I hope that answers the question


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735632*
> I wouldn't say I BM actually. I get super upset but the most you will get is me *****ing ( banelings for example ). I don't rage quit or anything.
> 
> If you say *GG first I will fly command centers around the map* though.


Just for the record, my posts are all in good fun. As for the gg thing, well, the 2vs2 game I won with EmMule tonight, when the other opponent left, I meant to say gl hf, but typed GG instead. The guy then responded, "I'm still here" XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bounceback;11735644*
> Am i the only person who was not feeling the multiplayer campaign this time around? Maybe I need to play it a little more but the 3 or so times i played I did not like it this time. Mabe I felt like the game was too close up or something.
> 
> I loved the old multiplayer to death and can play for hours. But this time around I loved the single player....which I liked the first time but I know my heart was in the multi. Am I the only one who feels this way?


Just give it sometime. When I started SP with all the lag, issues, etc.... I felt it was horrible, but, I decided to do some research, lowered settings, capped fps, etc.... and once I started playing it and gave it more time, I enjoyed it. It's likely due to the new units avaliable that weren't in SC, although, SC is still an awesome game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735665*
> whathe****amireading.jpg
> 
> im just going to say that I hated the singleplayer, I hope that answers the question


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735661*
> I'm sure a bunch of TA/FA/SC ect fanboys will go on and on about how horrible the game is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Guys, take it easy, your opinisim is taking a hold over you







One has the right to critize what he doesn't like. Nothing wrong with stating it as long as he doesn't keep coming into the thread and typing it over and over, then that's trolling









Edit: BTW, just hit >1k posts in this thread, nice to know that another 700+ posts are going to other parts of OCN


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Did you guys already talk about funday monday's 5min attacking video? I had a great time watching it. Great learning tool for since I'm the type of guy that pushes with 1 zealot and stalker out right, and then go for timing attacks. Duno about you folks if you watched.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11735705*
> Did you guys already talk about funday monday's 5min attacking video? I had a great time watching it. Great learning tool for since I'm the type of guy that pushes with 1 zealot and stalker out right, and then go for timing attacks. Duno about you folks if you watched.


Haven't watched any day9 video ever. Tried to watch a carrier one, got maybe 5-10min just as HuK got the carrier out to fend off a small MM force push then stopped there and never looked back XD
I've been trying to do some early pushes as well. I think one zealot+stalker push is indeed pretty good


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11735705*
> Did you guys already talk about funday monday's 5min attacking video? I had a great time watching it. Great learning tool for since I'm the type of guy that pushes with 1 zealot and stalker out right, and then go for timing attacks. Duno about you folks if you watched.


Yeah, it was pretty interesting.
The 5 minute expand one, aswell. Things like this make me be more aggressive in my expanding and attacking.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735742*
> Yeah, it was pretty interesting.
> The 5 minute expand one, aswell. Things like this make me be more aggressive in my expanding and attacking.


The thing is, as P/T you should always try to be aggressive as possible. I know whenever I get P/T, I try to be aggressive as possible unless I feel like trying to macro or go for something like banshee harass or VR rush, etc.... It makes the game more interesting and can put you in a better position if you are able to do some damage









Anyone up for a game? Want to get one more in before heading to bed


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11735728*
> Haven't watched any day9 video ever. Tried to watch a carrier one, got maybe 5-10min just as HuK got the carrier out to fend off a small MM force push then stopped there and never looked back XD
> I've been trying to do some early pushes as well. I think one zealot+stalker push is indeed pretty good


WHAT? Why not? Day9 is awesome. You could ramble on and on about things he says.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735779*
> WHAT? Why not? Day9 is awesome. You could ramble on and on about things he says.


No reason really, I just never did. Getting his videos to watch is a pain due to net being slow at random times. I would just rather learn how to play the game on my own. I started playing Z rather badly, got a lot of experiences since then due to playing, talking to other players, etc.... To me, it's more rewarding than watching day9 talk about how I should harass and when, etc.... just like the figuring out part


----------



## DoomDash

Day9 is a must watch for anyone of any skill level IMO. He just gives you many different ways of looking at things, some of which you won't think of on your own.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735859*
> Day9 is a must watch for anyone of any skill level IMO. He just gives you many different ways of looking at things, some of which *you won't think of on your own*.


Maybe you're right about that part, but, I still don't think it's the right way to go for me at least. I discover things every time I play a 1vs1 game, keeps the game fresh for me because it's always changing and of course, let's not forget how the game will change with the different patches









I'm also pretty confident that I'll get into diamond if I play more games, but, I'm also taking my time to iron my timings/macro/micro/scouting before moving out of my league. Don't forget that I'm watching those GSL games and hearing all the commentary by Artosis and Tasteless so I'll still pick up on some strats and tips for the different races on the different maps. Might not be as detailed as day9, but, I say it's good enough









BTW, up for a 1vs1 game? Really itching for a TvsT


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11735925*
> Maybe you're right about that part, but, I still don't think it's the right way to go for me at least. I discover things every time I play a 1vs1 game, keeps the game fresh for me because it's always changing and of course, let's not forget how the game will change with the different patches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also pretty confident that I'll get into diamond if I play more games, but, I'm also taking my time to iron my timings/macro/micro/scouting before moving out of my league. Don't forget that I'm watching those GSL games and hearing all the commentary by Artosis and Tasteless so I'll still pick up on some strats and tips for the different races on the different maps. Might not be as detailed as day9, but, I say it's good enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, up for a 1vs1 game? Really itching for a TvsT


Off to bed, but I think you're pretty far away from Diamond still. It's a good goal however. Let's see you get out of silver though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11735944*
> Off to bed, but I think you're pretty far away from Diamond still. It's a good goal however. *Let's see you get out of silver though.*


Yes, I'm far but it's within my sights








I can get out of silver as Z, but, not as P/T yet which is why I'm still there. Either way, ladder reset in Jan so I can afford to learn P/T at the expense of losing points if need be


----------



## vdek

So doom, I tried a 3 hatch build today in a custom game against a diamond toss.

Watch and weep for him:


I might start a TL discussion on this build because it's pretty sweet.

edit: done -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178847


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11732421*
> I feel your pain, been there, done that, although, I worked very hard to maintain my scholarships throughout university
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, we can get a game going the next time you are able to play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still need to avenge my loss to your MM after I waited too long to get banes XD


LOL...will do...today is my last day at work for the week...will be on 6am toronto standard time (i think it's +5) in the morning thursday, dec. 23 2010, and we'll play...but i have to warn you...i haven't played in a week


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11736692*
> So doom, I tried a 3 hatch build today in a custom game against a diamond toss.
> 
> Watch and weep for him:
> 
> 
> I might start a TL discussion on this build because it's pretty sweet.


holy frack...man those speedlings sure made him weep...i was going like..."wait an in-base hatch despite taking care of the blocking probe..."

then i saw the upgrades for +1 attack and ling-speed...i was like "***!!!...now that was FAST!"

also he did a bad FF on his ramp when your lings already made it in...that was GG written all over it


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11736836*
> holy frack...man those speedlings sure made him weep...i was going like..."wait an in-base hatch despite taking care of the blocking probe..."
> 
> then i saw the upgrades for +1 attack and ling-speed...i was like "***!!!...now that was FAST!"
> 
> also he did a bad FF on his ramp when your lings already made it in...that was GG written all over it


Hehe, Even without that bad FF he still would have been done for


----------



## CramComplex

huhuhu...i wish i was good


----------



## thiru

Holy crap 8 pages in less than 24 hours
Dang I wish I was home, I wanted to play again and practice before the ladder reset, but I'm not coming home before January 1st so I won't be able to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11735452*
> God all your posts remind me of me so much


lol


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11735728*
> Haven't watched any day9 video ever.


You make me sad.


----------



## thiru

I just made my cousin watch day9 even though he doesn't play Starcraft 2.
He does watch tournaments though.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11738610*
> I just made my cousin watch day9 even though he doesn't play Starcraft 2.
> He does watch tournaments though.


Did you know day9 uses some POS crappy $10 keyboard to play SC2 on? I was thinking of emailing razer and demanding that they send him a razer black widow as a promotional thing.


----------



## thiru

I like the clicks and all, but I'd rather watch Day9 without them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11736793*
> LOL...will do...today is my last day at work for the week...will be on 6am toronto standard time (i think it's +5) in the morning thursday, dec. 23 2010, and we'll play...but i have to warn you...i haven't played in a week


Nice, I'm in EST time as well. Far as I know, our times should be similar. Anyways, it's np, just play to get those timings back up








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11736836*
> holy frack...man those speedlings sure made him weep...i was going like..."wait an *in-base hatch* despite taking care of the blocking probe..."
> 
> then i saw the upgrades for +1 attack and ling-speed...i was like "***!!!...now that was FAST!"
> 
> also he did a bad FF on his ramp when your lings already made it in...that was GG written all over it


With Z, it's generally a good idea to get more than the 2 hatcheries(main+exp) because hatcheries are important to make an army, more hatcheries= more army that can be made at any one point








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11736988*
> huhuhu...i wish i was good


lol, practice makes perfect








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11737622*
> *Holy crap 8 pages in less than 24 hours*
> Dang I wish I was home, I wanted to play again and practice before the ladder reset, but I'm not coming home before January 1st so I won't be able to.


What can I say? We type very fast








Ladder reset is on Jan 2, so, you'll have a whole day to grind and try to get as many games in as possible








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11738458*
> You make me sad.


lol. I just don't like the idea of having someone tells me exactly what to do in any situation or what strat for what map, etc.... It's just simplifies the game too much in my eyes. Much rather pick up and piece that info together from different sources(other players, pros games, my own thoughts, etc....)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11739241*
> lol. I just don't like the idea of having someone tells me exactly what to do in any situation or what strat for what map, etc.... It's just simplifies the game too much in my eyes. Much rather pick up and piece that info together from different sources(other players, pros games, my own thoughts, etc....)


I'm going to tell you exactly what to do. Go watch Day9.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11739241*
> lol. I just don't like the idea of having someone tells me exactly what to do in any situation or what strat for what map, etc.... It's just simplifies the game too much in my eyes. Much rather pick up and piece that info together from different sources(other players, pros games, my own thoughts, etc....)


day9 is both another player AND a pro gamer.

Regardless, he doesn't tell you necessarily WHAT to do, more so what NOT to do.


----------



## thiru

What does being a programer have to do with SC2?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11739425*
> What does being a programer have to do with SC2?


BigFan:
Quote:


> Haven't watched any day9 video ever.


Quote:


> Much rather pick up and piece that info together from different sources(*other players, pros games*, my own thoughts, etc....)


day9 = other player && pro gamer.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11739489*
> BigFan:
> 
> day9 = other player && pro gamer.


You said programer the first time







which is what I think he's studying to be. But he's not a progamer... what's the last tournament he entered?


----------



## Rayzer

I believe the last tournament he entered was WCG 2005 for SCI where he won USA and went on to play Xellos in the Grand Finals (If my memory serves me correctly, watch Day 9 Daily #100 for more info). I wouldn't say he's a current progamer (pro gamer) but I would definitely say he's an icon in the SCII community.

He's hosted and casted several SCII tournaments as well.


----------



## Allenssmart

overlords op


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11739603*
> overlords op


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11739320*
> I'm going to tell you exactly what to do. Go watch Day9.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11739416*
> day9 is both another player AND a *pro gamer*.
> 
> Regardless, he doesn't tell you necessarily WHAT to do, more so what NOT to do.










You guys must really love day9







Yes, I've quite informed about his past sc1 history. What I meant by pro games, was GSL games which are interesting to watch








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11739603*
> overlords op










You need to research the transportation to use it. Also, lots of players use that smokescreen to hide or unload stuff, etc.... My advice would be to build something there, most build a depot to prevent a Z from popping up a worm, etc.... If you think OLs are op, then you never played sc1 because they were also detectors back then so, their purpose was even greater for the same price


----------



## Mike431635

I'm so tired of SC2.. none of my friends play, and the blizzard matchmaking is ridiculous. I always ask my teammates what league they're in. I've been holding down #6-8 in a 3v3 gold league for MONTHS now, and I always get paired with people from bronze. Literally 90% of the time at least one of the teammates is bronze. WHAT THE HELL?!?! I play this game because I'm competitive and I want to play with people on the same level as me, not be crippled by some idiot who has 3 F*&@^$ zealots at 7 minutes.

Due to this, I think I'm quitting. Need a new game to play that requires NO skill so at least it's fair. When the hell is Diablo 3 coming out?


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i'm getting missing units again. can you help me? i'll have a video up on youtube or something


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan day9 doesn't tell you exactly what to do he gives you reasons for what pros are doing, very simple tips for newbs ect. You make it sound like something its not, just watch it ( you can watch them on youtube now no need to watch live ).


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11739734*












On another note, I cant tell you how many things I`ve learned from Day9. Not because he was(or is) a pro player or has great strategies to tell me, but by the way he makes you look at the game differently.
Example: TO be a great player you need good micro, you need to always constantly produce out of your units, constantly make probes and pylons (and the equivalent for z an T) and you need to watch the minimap, and you need to learn to hotkey, and you need to learn to use control groups well etc...

But he mentions to work on one or two at a time, to practice with buddes etc.. (see Daily No 229 i think, on banelings)
I believe EVERY new player should watch the day9 newbie tuesday, heck i believe every player should. You can always take something from it.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike431635;11739823*
> I'm so tired of SC2.. none of my friends play, and the blizzard matchmaking is ridiculous. I always ask my teammates what league they're in. I've been holding down #6-8 in a 3v3 gold league for MONTHS now, and I always get paired with people from bronze. Literally 90% of the time at least one of the teammates is bronze. WHAT THE HELL?!?! I play this game because I'm competitive and I want to play with people on the same level as me, not be crippled by some idiot who has 3 F*&@^$ zealots at 7 minutes.
> 
> Due to this, I think I'm quitting. Need a new game to play that requires NO skill so at least it's fair. When the hell is Diablo 3 coming out?


Hey MIke, dont give up so quick.
come play with me and Opti, Dawl, Thiru, Doomdash, thumper, Jediwin, Razultull or Yks, and we will be in diamond in no time







. We can put together 3v3 teams.

I have a 3v3 team with myself, Opti and Razul and we are ranked 4th in platinium. Wont be long till we in diamond


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike431635;11739823*
> I'm so tired of SC2.. none of my friends play, and the blizzard matchmaking is ridiculous. I always ask my teammates what league they're in. I've been holding down #6-8 in a 3v3 gold league for MONTHS now, and I always get paired with people from bronze. Literally 90% of the time at least one of the teammates is bronze. WHAT THE HELL?!?! I play this game *because I'm competitive* and I want to play with people on the same level as me, not be crippled by some idiot who has 3 F*&@^$ zealots at 7 minutes.
> 
> Due to this, I think I'm quitting. Need a new game to play that requires NO skill so at least it's fair. When the hell is Diablo 3 coming out?


If you really want to be competitive, 1vs1 is the way to go. 3vs3 just isn't as competitive because it ends up being mass tier x unit. Also, it comes down to who attacks first in that matchup and who your teammates are








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11739859*
> guys i'm getting missing units again. can you help me? i'll have a video up on youtube or something


After reinstalling? Quite bizzare, never heard of it before and the battle.net forums yielded no hints because I would assume someone has had a similar issue already?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11739865*
> BigFan day9 doesn't tell you exactly what to do he gives you reasons for what pros are doing, very simple tips for newbs ect. You make it sound like something its not, just watch it ( you can watch them on youtube now no need to watch live ).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;11739926*
> On another note, I cant tell you how many things I`ve learned from Day9. Not because he was(or is) a pro player or has great strategies to tell me, but by the way he makes you look at the game differently.
> Example: TO be a great player you need good micro, you need to always constantly produce out of your units, constantly make probes and pylons (and the equivalent for z an T) and you need to watch the minimap, and you need to learn to hotkey, and you need to learn to use control groups well etc...
> 
> But he mentions to work on one or two at a time, to practice with buddes etc.. (see Daily No 229 i think, on banelings)
> I believe EVERY new player should watch the day9 newbie tuesday, heck i believe every player should. You can always take something from it.


I think you guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I already know all those mentioned and have stated them myself many times without ever watching a single day9 video. I've made up maps where I practiced microing units(marines, phenoixes, etc....) and have done some practice before.

I've carefully analyzed every single game I've ever played afterwards to see where I messed up, what I could've done better even though I won and what my opponent was doing during all that time. My point is, I'm enjoying sc2 as is and developing my own skills at my rate as time passes. Will I watch a day9episode sometime in the near future? Possibly, depending if I find one of his videos interesting, but, atm I'm fine as is


----------



## Allenssmart

look at this thread: http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/895482-starcraft-2-missing-textures-help.html#post11739999


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mike431635*


I'm so tired of SC2.. none of my friends play, and the blizzard matchmaking is ridiculous. I always ask my teammates what league they're in. I've been holding down #6-8 in a 3v3 gold league for MONTHS now, and I always get paired with people from bronze. Literally 90% of the time at least one of the teammates is bronze. WHAT THE HELL?!?! I play this game because I'm competitive and I want to play with people on the same level as me, not be crippled by some idiot who has 3 F*&@^$ zealots at 7 minutes.

Due to this, I think I'm quitting. Need a new game to play that requires NO skill so at least it's fair. When the hell is Diablo 3 coming out?


What rank are your opponents?

I started out in Silver 3v3 (2-3 placement because of bad teammates) but you just got to keep at it. I'm Diamond now after carrying my teams for around 60 games. And note, not everyone takes 3v3 seriously, a lot of people, like myself, either play random for fun or play to warm up for 1v1s.

If you're truly gold, it'll show in the long run. Keep at it.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol. I just don't like the idea of having someone tells me exactly what to do in any situation or what strat for what map, etc.... It's just simplifies the game too much in my eyes.


He doesn't tell you what to do or what strat to use though. So I don't know where you're getting that from if you haven't watched an episode.

Day9 is just like a GSL game, only better, because he can pause and fast-forward AND* typically he watches the replay before hand and sifts through the good ones before showing us, saving us time in finding good replays.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Much rather pick up and piece that info together from different sources(other players, pros games, my own thoughts, etc....)










Don't be bias, a source is a source, so why not pick up and piece info together from ALL sources. Other players, pro games, AND day9


----------



## DoomDash

If you were that good at analyzing your own games you'd be better.

Go watch Day9.


----------



## DoomDash

I think they temporarily removed Shukarus from the map pool because of that bug i posted.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11740163*
> He *doesn't tell you what to do* or what strat to use though. So I don't know where you're getting that from if you haven't watched an episode.
> 
> Day9 is just like a GSL game, only better, because he can pause and fast-forward AND* typically he watches the replay before hand and sifts through the good ones before showing us, saving us time in finding good replays.
> 
> *Don't be bias*, a source is a source, so why not pick up and piece info together from *ALL* sources. Other players, pro games, AND day9


Typo on my part







I'm not being bias. I'm just stating that I'm not interested in watching day9 and as for pieceing together information, it's really *up to me* to decide where to piece it from and day9 isn't on my list atm








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11740233*
> If you were that good at analyzing your own games *you'd be better*.
> 
> Go watch Day9.


lol, analyzing is one thing, fixing said mistake is another







Sometimes I also watch replays for the purpose of seeing some grand battles again, like that stalkers against battlecrusiers in my last PvsT game I played. Basically, to me, sc2 is about enjoying the game, trying out different races with their strats and improve my skills as time passes









I've fixed some previous mistakes of mine, but, usually will find something else to fix especially when I started playing P/T recently







Having said that, I'm nowhere near the same level when I started playing especially if I play as Z, so again, I'm satisfied with my progress.

For the bolded part, you and EmMule have had firsthand experience of how unreliable my net can be, so, how can I be expected to play 20 games a day when I only have 1-2hr at night to *possibly* get in a game without lag? Essentially, practice makes perfect and being unable to practice as much as I would like means I can't get better much faster







Also, life >> sc2, sorry guys









You guys should relax a bit. I get it, you admire if that's the correct term, day9. Nothing wrong with that, however, you make it sound like if you don't watch day9, you will forever stink horribly at sc2 and will never get better which I'm sorry to say is not the case XD

^^nice that they removed it. I hate that map, have never won a single game from 15 or so on it


----------



## DoomDash

We are saying there is no good reason not to watch Day9, that's all. Think of it as a very helpful bonus to what you are already doing. You are so damn stubborn.

That map rocks.... almost everyone likes it. You probably just aren't very good on it. It's not even a Terran map and I love it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11740535*
> We are saying there is no good reason not to watch Day9, that's all. Think of it as a very helpful bonus to what you are already doing. You are so *damn stubborn*.
> 
> That map rocks.... almost everyone likes it. You probably just aren't very good on it. It's not even a Terran map and I love it.


lol, you just realized that now?







I'm the kind of guy who sticks to his gun regardless of the outcome









Likely not, hate the rocks at the back. Love the long distance, but, have had many bad experiences on it in the past. I haven't played on that map for a while now though, so, can't really tell how much different everything will be now


----------



## CramComplex

i accidentally woke up at 12pm EST...might be sleeping again in a bit but frack that...time for some games...BF you good to go?

@Day9 discussion: well i haven't been watching his vod's lately liek i said due to work...but i've learned a buttload of stuff from him specially micro/macro stuff, economy game and know when to retreat/attack...

man i really need to let go of my SC1 hotkeys...CC/OC/PF = 0 | attack group 1,2,3 | rax = 9 | fac = 8 | ports = 7 | everything else is blank >__<

also i've been watching SC2NoobSchool over at YT as he does give some good stuff.

(~^_^)~


----------



## DoomDash

No logical reason not to watch day9 as a bonus. Just saying the only person your hurting is yourself. If that's what you want so be it.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^nice that they removed it. I hate that map, have never won a single game from 15 or so on it










you can hate shakuras, that's fine, your personal opinion. in my opinion, i like it.

but how haven't you won on it? it has like Zerg written all over it. It's like #2 next to Scrap, Distance wise.

lets play, NOW! practice some shakuras games.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


as for pieceing together information, it's really *up to me *to decide where to piece it from and day9 isn't on my list atm










its like going to the library and only reading books when you can do books AND wi-fi the internet there.

i dont see how more information is bad. especially when its useful information.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


you can hate shakuras, that's fine, your personal opinion. in my opinion, i like it.

but how haven't you won on it? it has like Zerg written all over it. It's like #2 next to Scrap, Distance wise.

lets play, NOW! practice some shakuras games.


can i add you yks? PTR or retail?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


i accidentally woke up at 12pm EST...might be sleeping again in a bit but frack that...time for some games...BF you good to go?

@Day9 discussion: well i haven't been watching his vod's lately liek i said due to work...but i've learned a buttload of stuff from him specially micro/macro stuff, economy game and know when to retreat/attack...

man i really need to let go of my SC1 hotkeys...CC/OC/PF = 0 | attack group 1,2,3 | rax = 9 | fac = 8 | ports = 7 | everything else is blank >__<

also i've been watching SC2NoobSchool over at YT as he does give some good stuff.

(~^_^)~


Heh, I was using the same hot keys for a while when I was playing primarily as Terran. But reaching all the way to 0 as zerg for your hatcheries is tiresome.

Now I use 1-2-3-4 for units, and 5 for queens, 6 for hatcheries, 7 for OLs/Overseers.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11740698*
> Heh, I was using the same hot keys for a while. But reaching all the way to 0 as zerg for your hatcheries is tiresome.


those were my hotkeys way back in the day when everyone i played with was at big game hunters LOL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


i accidentally woke up at 12pm EST...might be sleeping again in a bit but frack that...time for some games...*BF you good to go?*
@Day9 discussion: well i haven't been watching his vod's lately liek i said due to work...but i've learned a buttload of stuff from him specially micro/macro stuff, economy game and know when to retreat/attack...

man i really need to let go of my SC1 hotkeys...CC/OC/PF = 0 | attack group 1,2,3 | rax = 9 | fac = 8 | ports = 7 | everything else is blank >__<

also i've been watching SC2NoobSchool over at YT as he does give some good stuff.

(~^_^)~



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


you can *hate* shakuras, that's fine, your personal opinion. in my opinion, i like it.

*but how haven't you won on it?* it has like Zerg written all over it. It's like #2 next to Scrap, Distance wise.

lets play, *NOW!* practice some shakuras games.


Well, sometimes I forget to keep track of the back rocks or I've been marine+thor attacked and without scouting wasn't prepared. Can't recall having a non-Z game on it. My experience was mostly from when they added it since I got a lot of games on it then and I wasn't too great with my macro/micro/scouting, etc.... so I lost a lot. Hate is a strong word, I meant dislike due to past experience









Long story short, I used to also dislike scrap even as a Z







Maybe it's because I didn't macro well enough once I got my exp so I was using the distance to my advantage, but, I've come to like scrap especially with that yellow mineral base near the bottom









Sorry guys, I would love a game, but, going to be heading out soon, but, if you guys are on tonight, I'll be more than happy to get a game going on Plateau









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No *logical reason *not to watch day9 as a bonus. Just saying the only person your hurting is yourself. If that's what you want so be it.


Net issue means that I'll have to wait forever while it loads up. So I will have to balance playing a game or two of SC2 or wait to watch a day9 video, a dileema indeed


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


you can hate shakuras, that's fine, your personal opinion. in my opinion, i like it.

but how haven't you won on it? it has like Zerg written all over it. It's like #2 next to Scrap, Distance wise.

lets play, NOW! practice some shakuras games.


BigFan isn't a macro Zerg.


----------



## CramComplex

@BF: LOL WUT!? man switch to TekSavvy if you can... $41.75 a month for a good 10mpbs DL speed @ 200gb cap!

@DoomDash: Added you








@yks: added you who else did i miss


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Heh, I was using the same hot keys for a while when I was playing primarily as Terran. But reaching all the way to 0 as zerg for your hatcheries is tiresome.

Now I use 1-2-3-4 for units, and 5 for queens, 6 for hatcheries, 7 for OLs/Overseers.


I find 0 is harder to reach as well. I just stick with 1 for hatcheries, 2 for queens(to inject larvae using minimap quicker), then the rest for units and 9 for scouting OL, probe, SCV









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan isn't a macro Zerg.


That's soo funny to hear because it's true







Although, I've since concentrated on my macro whenever I'm Z and would say I've seen improvements


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11740793*
> @BF: LOL WUT!? man switch to TekSavvy if you can... $41.75 a month for a good 10mpbs DL speed @ 200gb cap!


Sad to say, but, that's what I have







Had it for 2y, was fine but last 1.5 month it's been nothing but horrible. I mean it loads pages fine, but, playing sc2 can be horrid sometimes


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11740795*
> 
> That's soo funny to hear because it's true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although, I've since concentrated on my macro whenever I'm Z and would say I've seen improvements


It's odd too cause my friend "MasterLaw" is also not a macro Zerg. If you watch any replay of him he tries to be cute and fancy, and usually has lower drone count than my SCV count. I yell at him all the time saying he should be beating me if he just plays macro Zerg but like you he is pretty stubborn in his ideas / play.

It's nice that he gives me so many free wins though. I 3-0ed him last night too. But you can get 2400+ as a cute / fancy Zerg w/ out strong macro it seems like my friend







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


That's why I dont like it. I think 5 seconds is perfect.

(...)

I never win a macro game when Z gets 20+ mutas.


Funny.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you say GG first I will fly command centers around the map though.


Lol, nothing pisses me off as much as this and I react in similar way.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I'm also pretty confident that I'll get into diamond if I play more games, but, I'm also taking my time to iron my timings/macro/micro/scouting before moving out of my league. Don't forget that I'm watching those GSL games and hearing all the commentary by Artosis and Tasteless so I'll still pick up on some strats and tips for the different races on the different maps. Might not be as detailed as day9, but, I say it's good enough












Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I think you guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I already know all those mentioned and have stated them myself many times without ever watching a single day9 video. I've made up maps where I practiced microing units(marines, phenoixes, etc....) and have done some practice before.

I've carefully analyzed every single game I've ever played afterwards to see where I messed up, what I could've done better even though I won and what my opponent was doing during all that time. My point is, I'm enjoying sc2 as is and developing my own skills at my rate as time passes. Will I watch a day9episode sometime in the near future? Possibly, depending if I find one of his videos interesting, but, atm I'm fine as is










I'm pretty confident that you won't make it to diamond if you don't change your attitude. You can't just learn from pro replays, because you won't know what to look for and won't understand the reasoning behind decisions they make. Also talking with other players, who are probably as clueless as you won't do you any good. There is a good chance you are just learning the wrong things. Most of the stuff your are talking about is absolutely irrelevant to your level of play. You don't need ANY micro, "timings" or advanced tactics to get to diamond. On the other hand you need solid build orders, macro and understanding of basic strategic principles which day 9 can teach you.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


On the other hand you need solid build orders, macro and understanding of basic strategic principles which day 9 can teach you.


^ totally

oh yeah i also need a damn hand warmer liek the ones they use on the GSL...my sister has one of those tick-tacs that when you activate the metal inside it warms up...i need a smaller version as the one she has is liek for the entire back...

anyone know where to get these as my sister is being selfish and won't tell me where she got them


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11740840*
> I'm pretty confident that you won't make it to diamond if you don't change your attitude. You can't just learn from pro replays, because you won't know what to look for and won't understand the reasoning behind decisions they make. Also talking with other players, who are probably *as clueless as you* won't do you any good. There is a good chance you are just learning the wrong things. Most of the stuff your are talking about is absolutely irrelevant to your level of play. You don't need ANY micro, "timings" or advanced tactics to get to diamond. On the other hand you need *solid build orders, macro and understanding of basic strategic principles* which day 9 can teach you.


lol, we'll see about that







Talking with other players gives me an idea of their success with certain strats in the diamond league. Maybe I should clarify, but, these are also diamond players I'm talking to, not some silver player who just won because he cheesed the game. I've played customs and have had discussions with these players, some are quite interesting to say the least.

I do love how you make it sound like I'm completely clueless about everything though, as if I've never played a single game, didn't practice, etc.... and decided to just randomly talk about nonsense because I believe otherwise. I've played a decent amount of games considering my net issues. I play the game to enjoy it while remaining as competitive as possible. If I lose a game because of a mistake I made, I gg my opponent, leave and *try* to remember to fix it. That to me, is how the game is to be played.

As I've said before, I've been working on my macro, have an idea of basic strategic principles(high ground, what counters what, timings, etc....) and I don't follow any specific BO after a certain point because I like to change my strat every game to keep my opponent guessing, that to me, is what SC2 is about








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11740828*
> It's odd too cause my friend "MasterLaw" is also *not a macro Zerg*. If you watch any replay of him he tries to be cute and fancy, and usually has lower drone count than my SCV count. I yell at him all the time saying he should be beating me if he just plays macro Zerg but like you he is *pretty stubborn* in his ideas / play.
> 
> It's nice that he gives me *so many free wins* though. I 3-0ed him last night too. But you can get 2400+ as a cute / fancy Zerg w/ out strong macro it seems like my friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Even I have to admit that his macro wasn't the greatest







lol @ cute and fancy, I try to do those in team games and in some 1vs1 if I don't feel like being serious. Free wins don't teach you much though, losing teaches you a lot more







BTW, nothing wrong with being stubborn. It could actually cause him to improve his microing and timings in order to overcome his macro issues, because, he's determined to win with his method









Either way, I'm closing this day9 discussion. I'm just not interested atm and having to repeat my same points over and over is tiresome and is a waste of my and your time. Call me stubborn, bias, etc... if you want, that's fine, don't really care


----------



## DoomDash

I'm pretty sure most would agree that your attitude / thinking is going to hold you back BigFan. Being stubborn can be good, but it can also be bad.

How long have I been yelling at you to just accept advice without automatically defending your reasoning? You say you talk to Diamonds all the time, which is true, you do talk to us.. but do you listen? That's yet to be proven.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I do love how you make it sound like I'm completely clueless about everything though, as if I've never played a single game, didn't practice, etc.... and decided to just randomly talk about nonsense because I believe otherwise. I've played a decent amount of games considering my net issues. I play the game to enjoy it while remaining as competitive as possible. If I lose a game because of a mistake I made, I gg my opponent, leave and *try* to remember to fix it. That to me, is how the game is to be played.

As I've said before, I've been working on my macro, have an idea of basic strategic principles(high ground, what counters what, timings, etc....) and I don't follow any specific BO after a certain point because I like to change my strat every game to keep my opponent guessing, that to me, is what SC2 is about










I didn't say completely clueless. I actually thought you're better player until I watched some of your replays. You're mostly talking about stuff that is relevant at diamond level, but you don't have the fundamentals covered at the level even close to it.

Also, with your random BOs, the only surprise your opponent is going to get in the game is that of how surprisingly few units you've managed to make in a period of time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11741051*
> I'm pretty sure most would agree that your attitude / thinking is going to hold you back BigFan. Being stubborn can be good, but it can also be bad.
> 
> How long have I been yelling at you to just accept advice without automatically defending your reasoning? You say you talk to Diamonds all the time, which is true, you do talk to us.. but do you listen? *That's yet to be proven.*


Considering that SC2's purpose for me is having fun and won't be leading me anywhere in life, I'm willing to stick to my guns and slowly improve my gameplay, since, I'm not losing anything either way. I like to take things slow and steady









If I don't give you my reasoning, how will you know why I made that crawlers for example? There are always going to be exceptions in SC2. You also have to remember and I've stated this many times, that as an observer(watching replay), you have an idea of what the opponent is doing at anyone time but when you are in the game, you can sometimes be completely clueless and need to prepare if you feel an imminent attack.

Bolded = untrue. Talking to another diamond Z, I stopped going 10 pool and 2 OLs and started going 15 exp 14 pool while getting some crawlers for defense. Talking to you, I decided to forge those crawlers, drone a bit more then lay one down to have a better eco, likewise, I've started concentrating on my macro in every game regardless of race. From this thread and others, I started using slings+banes to counter MM and placing one spore in my mineral line.

From another gold/plat Z(was depromoted due to constant disconnects, probably worse net than mine







), his idea was to get third at around 75 as I recall. I've learned from watching GSL games or in your game against masterlaw, how well cliffs are in LT for drop(thors-boxer) and how well 2 rax FE with marine pressure(12, 15-rax with supply depot at 17-18 and no OC) can work against Z. Learned about 2 gate robo against T(neva), going 1 gas only to exp, 2 to tech(P) from yks and 2 gate stargate from Lazorbeam/Thumper. Also, learned about 3 rax(2 tech+reactor) from you.

Is that enough to prove I listen? You decide. Not interested in listing more of these stories because I'll need a whole page


----------



## DoomDash

You pick and choose what you want I guess.

Still, watch Day9, and become a better player. I won't recommend it to you again but we aren't telling you to watch him for no good reason.


----------



## rhed5

Dude man, just play more, and you'll be out of silver in no time. I am absolutely sure of this given the amount of time and effort you are putting in this thread, if you do this in SC2 BOOM diamond in no time!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I didn't say completely clueless. I actually thought you're better player until I *watched some of your replays*. You're mostly talking about stuff that is relevant at diamond level, but you *don't have the fundamentals *covered at the level even close to it.

Also, with your random BOs, the only surprise your opponent is going to get in the game is that of how surprisingly few units you've managed to make in a period of time.


See, that's the kicker. I've had games where everything was stellar and perfectly timed, was satisfied even if I lost or won. I've had other games where I've messed up a lot and still won, but, wasn't too satisfied because I didn't feel like I did well. It just depends on my mood and if I feel like playing sc2.

As to the fundamentals, can you tell me the specific that I'm missing? I'm pretty confident that I've covered all my mistakes as Z, still have more for T/P but I haven't played much of those to comment enough on them. As for random BOs, it's not really random, their is a starting point as I've previously mentioned several times in this thread, but, once I get to a certain point, I don't have a certain timing for putting up a structure or doing some upgrades, etc.... 
Example for Z: 10 OL, scout, drone till 15, 15 exp, 14 pool, 14-15 extractor, drone hard, get Queen, 2 lings for tower. Get bane nest for T soon after, roach for P, while keeping an eye, etc.... there is a starting point, but, from there, I just do things as need be. 
Example for P: 9 pylon, 12 gateway, cb probes, get cc right after gateway is done, 14-15 extractor. From there, if I plan to exp(long distance map), I only get one gas, maybe a forge for some protection while I probe up or lay down another gateway with wrap tech on the way, getting out some sentries or stalkers.
Example for T: 10 supply, 12 rax, 15 rax(if 2 rax FE), scv till 16, OC then, 15-16 extractor, etc....
^^Just some examples of starting BOs. There are many more, point is I don't like doing the same method every game. In some games, I might just try to wrap in dts in their base(did on scrap and caverns and took out half of main) or use phenoixes to snipe OLs







BTW, there are still >100 games that I didn't upload, some better than the ones I uploaded. I upload ones that can be fun to watch, I mean would you rather I upload one where I stomped my opponent because that's not fun to watch?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Dude man, just play more, and you'll be out of silver in no time. I am absolutely sure of this given the amount of time and effort you are putting in this thread, if you do this in SC2 BOOM diamond in no time!


I would but my time to play SC2 is limited to 1-2hr at night otherwise it's a lag fest









@doom You said I didn't listen to you guys and diamond players. My point of that was to show that I'm infact listening, storing and try different strats in my games, although, sometimes I will do odd ones or mess up my timings horribly for whatever reason. I never said day9 is bad, lol, I just said I'll rather play games instead of wait to be able to watch a video. To me, play >> watch


----------



## rhed5

can you watch streams? I would watch a lot of first person view streams if you can't play, rather than theoreycrafting all day.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Talking to another diamond Z, I stopped going 10 pool and 2 OLs and started going 15 exp 14 pool while getting some crawlers for defense.


You're in silver, right? Past few days I've been slaughtering high-level silver Terrans with a bling/sling build that smashes the Terran wall a little before the 7 minute mark. Prolly wouldn't work in diamond, but these silver Terrans are falling for it every time. Just make sure to clear their scouts out so they don't see it coming.


----------



## DoomDash

Your lack of macro for Z is a fundamental mistake. If I had a dollar for every time you left your larva doing nothing, weren't droning, and weren't spending your money I'd have a second 580 GTX. Also poor scouting at times ect, huge fundamental mistake. I remember vs yks when you attacked the wrong Pylon that was blocking your units from getting in. There were 2 pylons, one of which had another behind it. You choose the pylon with the second pylon behind it, instead of the single one that would have got you into his base. Huge fundamental mistake. I could spend all day watching your replays and find 100000 mistakes.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You're in silver, right? Past few days I've been slaughtering high-level silver Terrans with a bling/sling build that smashes the Terran wall a little before the 7 minute mark. Prolly wouldn't work in diamond, but these silver Terrans are falling for it every time. Just make sure to clear their scouts out so they don't see it coming.


I can't imagine how hard it is for these Silver Terrans to deal with sling/bane. It's hard as **** @ Diamond level, poor Silver Terrans probably have it even worse.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


can you watch streams? I would watch a lot of first person view streams if you can't play, rather than theoreycrafting all day.


Yeah, that's good advice. TeamLiquid has a lot of good streams up, been watching them a lot lately.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You're in silver, right? Past few days I've been slaughtering high-level silver Terrans with a bling/sling build that smashes the Terran wall a little before the 7 minute mark. Prolly wouldn't work in diamond, but these silver Terrans are falling for it every time. Just make sure to clear their scouts out so they don't see it coming.


I actually did a kinda crazy sling build for 1v1s against toss, it works against Diamond league players easily.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


So doom, I tried a 3 hatch build today in a custom game against a diamond toss.

Watch and weep for him:


I might start a TL discussion on this build because it's pretty sweet.

edit: done -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=178847



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I would but my time to play SC2 is limited to 1-2hr at night otherwise it's a lag fest









@doom You said I didn't listen to you guys and diamond players. My point of that was to show that I'm infact listening, storing and try different strats in my games, although, sometimes I will do odd ones or mess up my timings horribly for whatever reason. I never said day9 is bad, lol, I just said I'll rather play games instead of wait to be able to watch a video. To me, play >> watch










Yeah, but like you've said yourself numerous times you can only play for 1-2 hours a day. Why not watch videos during the downtime? I dunno, I can play 24/7 with my connection but I actually tend to watch more streams/day9dailies/husky/hd/youtube videos than I actually play. I think I'm a better player because of it in fact.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


@doom You said I didn't listen to you guys and diamond players. My point of that was to show that I'm infact listening, storing and try different strats in my games, although, sometimes I will do odd ones or mess up my timings horribly for whatever reason. I never said day9 is bad, lol, I just said I'll rather play games instead of wait to be able to watch a video. To me, play >> watch










Fine, play games then... but watching Day9 certainly would be better time spent than posting in this thread for you. Watch day9 in the day when you cannot play SCII.

/ end thread.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


can you watch streams? I would watch a lot of first person view streams if you can't play, rather than theoreycrafting all day.


not sure, will have to check that, not on TL much









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You're in silver, right? Past few days I've been slaughtering high-level silver Terrans with a bling/sling build that smashes the Terran wall a little before the 7 minute mark. Prolly wouldn't work in diamond, but these silver Terrans are falling for it every time. Just make sure to clear their scouts out so they don't see it coming.


You mean a bane bust? I can't recall trying it before. I'm the non-conventional player in the sense that I rarely cheese and play the game straightforward. Do you exp because as I recall, you shouldn't when you try it?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*Your lack of macro* for Z is a fundamental mistake. If I had a dollar for every time you left your larva doing nothing, weren't droning, and weren't spending your money I'd have a second 580 GTX. Also *poor scouting at times *ect, huge fundamental mistake. I remember vs yks when you attacked the wrong Pylon that was blocking your units from getting in. *There were 2 pylons, one of which had another behind it. *You choose the pylon with the second pylon behind it, instead of the single one that would have got you into his base. Huge fundamental mistake. I could spend all day watching your replays and find 100000 mistakes.


Yep, macro/scouting are my best issues. My macro has improved since we last played, scouting, not sure, lol, since, I haven't been playing 1vs1 for 3 days now







BTW, I never said that I'm an awesome player that can be beat IMNestea, Boxer, FD, etc.... with one arm, never did I ever say that I make no mistakes, lol, I make a lot. I'm someone who loves the game a lot and loves to experiment with odd strats, etc.... As for that pylon, I can't for the life of me recall that game. I haven't gotten my early harass down tight either, since, I've been focusing on my macro with Z/T/P


----------



## thiru

If you need to watch a zerg stream, watch Destiny aka Steven Bonnell II. He's funny as hell, BMs, rages, and all of that in a hilarious way. He recently got banned for trolling a fellow streamer though







(so just search Steven bonnell on Ustream).

Seriously this guy makes me laugh every night. Commentates what he does too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


not sure, will have to check that, not on TL much









You mean a bane bust? I can't recall trying it before. I'm the non-conventional player in the sense that I rarely cheese and play the game straightforward. Do you exp because as I recall, you shouldn't when you try it?

Yep, macro/scouting are my best issues. My macro has improved since we last played, scouting, not sure, lol, since, I haven't been playing 1vs1 for 3 days now







BTW, I never said that I'm an awesome player that can be beat IMNestea, Boxer, FD, etc.... with one arm, never did I ever say that I make no mistakes, lol, I make a lot. I'm someone who loves the game a lot and loves to experiment with odd strats, etc.... As for that pylon, I can't for the life of me recall that game. I haven't gotten my early harass down tight either, since, I've been focusing on my macro with Z/T/P










At least watch this one episode for the love of god:

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/

If you select the source you can make it non-streaming.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yeah, but like you've said yourself numerous times you can only play for 1-2 hours a day. Why not watch videos during the downtime? I dunno, I can play 24/7 with my connection but I actually tend to watch more streams/day9dailies/husky/hd/youtube videos than I actually play. I think I'm a better player because of it in fact.


My net issue doesn't affect normal internet usage, but can cause issues with watching videos, playing SC2(random), etc.... I tried watching that crysis 2 video(1-2min) couple of nights back, it never got past the first 7sec or so at 480p as well XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you need to watch a zerg stream, watch Destiny aka Steven Bonnell II. He's funny as hell, BMs, rages, and all of that in a hilarious way. He recently got banned for trolling a fellow streamer though







(so just search Steven bonnell on Ustream).

Seriously this guy makes me laugh every night. Commentates what he does too.


Thanks thiru, will try to find his stream









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


At least watch this one episode for the love of god:

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/

If you select the source you can make it non-streaming.


If it means that much to you, I'll try to watch it, but, will have to wait a bit later on. I'll favourite it so that I don't forget


----------



## CramComplex

You know what...I dunno if this has been suggested before but we should get some voice talk over SC2...like ventrillo or something like that so we can all improve on our gameplay...like coaching, team games, strats etc. etc. etc. i'd be willing to pay for a server if that's what it takes to be a better gamer...but coaching/replay analysis that's another story...i play to have fun and connect with friends and new friends...

I dunno how to set -up one but hey i'm down for taht kinda stuff...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


You know what...I dunno if this has been suggested before but we should get some voice talk over SC2...like ventrillo or something like that so we can all improve on our gameplay...like coaching, team games, strats etc. etc. etc. i'd be willing to pay for a server if that's what it takes to be a better gamer...but coaching/replay analysis that's another story...i play to have fun and connect with friends and new friends...

I dunno how to set -up one but hey i'm down for taht kinda stuff...


They use vent for SC2 team games, works well, although no mic on my end, at least it wasn't working last I checked


----------



## thiru

Teamliquid has an open ventrilo server and a Teamspeak 3 server for the community, 200-300 slots each I think.

I believe you can even make your own private channel in the TS3 server.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


If it means that much to you, I'll try to watch it, but, will have to wait a bit later on. I'll favourite it so that I don't forget










I think its his best episode, especially for people of all skill levels. Let me know when you watch it.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you need to watch a zerg stream, watch Destiny aka Steven Bonnell II. He's funny as hell, BMs, rages, and all of that in a hilarious way. He recently got banned for trolling a fellow streamer though







(so just search Steven bonnell on Ustream).

Seriously this guy makes me laugh every night. Commentates what he does too.


I was watching his stream a few days ago and some little kid(cousin I guess) got on his starcraft. It was hilarious because the kid was so frustrated and never played before, he was like "what the hell how do I get my guys to attack something" meanwhile his drones were sitting in their starting position. Everyone in chat was cracking up.

Idra and some of the other top zerg actually have streams up too which is cool.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think its his best episode, especially for people of all skill levels.


I heard his 100th episode was interesting(life story), but, other than that, no other episodes have interested me


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


They use vent for SC2 team games, works well, although no mic on my end, at least it wasn't working last I checked










exactly...and they prolly advise, critique and formulate strats over...a mic...oh gosh...you live in canada there's a buttload of secondhand pc shops LOL dollarama mic for $1...decent, works fine and stuff...LOL


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I heard his 100th episode was interesting(life story), but, other than that, no other episodes have interested me










They would interest you if you wanted to get better faster







.

Episode 100 was pretty awesome, even more on a personal level for me because I felt very similar to him about SC1. I wish I had a brother with the same passion like he did.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


exactly...and they prolly advise, critique and formulate strats over...a mic...oh gosh...you live in canada there's a buttload of secondhand pc shops LOL dollarama mic for $1...decent, works fine and stuff...LOL


lol. I'm sure I can find one cheap, I just haven't looked since I'm not playing many team games atm, mostly 1vs1, practice with OCN members or 2vs2 with EmMule or doom(last night)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*They would interest you if you wanted to get better faster







*.

Episode 100 was pretty awesome, even more on a personal level for me because I felt very similar to him about SC1. I wish I had a brother with the same passion like he did.


lol, no comment.

You may or may not want that. It will cause you to improve much faster, however, at the expense of your sanity, lol, but, seriously, I agree, having a passionate sc2 brother will help you improve a lot







I've seen improvements in other games due to being against a sibling, however, none play sc2









Edit: rather sad when i posted >24 posts in less than 12 hr XD


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


As to the fundamentals, can you tell me the specific that I'm missing?


Yes:
- not making workers constantly
- not keeping your money low
- not building units/structures as soon as you can
- getting supply blocked
- not scouting
- not attacking when you should be
- attacking when you shouldn't be
- not expanding when you should be
- not using inject larva/mules/chronoboost efficiently

...just a few general ones.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I was watching his stream a few days ago and some little kid(cousin I guess) got on his starcraft. It was hilarious because the kid was so frustrated and never played before, he was like "what the hell how do I get my guys to attack something" meanwhile his drones were sitting in their starting position. Everyone in chat was cracking up.

Idra and some of the other top zerg actually have streams up too which is cool.


You should have seen the whole thing between him and Syndicate, it was hilarious. Although Syndicate really is insane... not in a good way.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yes:
- not making workers constantly
*Yep, I don't always make workers, sometimes I stockpile for mutas for example or feel I have enough so I stop which could be a good or bad idea. I've been droning hard lately, can't say the same for T/P though







*
- not keeping your money low
*Keeping resources down is an issue that I've acknowledged as well. I've been putting down more structures, making more units when that happens, but, it'll be fixed with more games







*- not building units/structures as soon as you can
- getting supply blocked
*I was much worse than I used to be, I still get supply blocked occassionally, but, less than before now







*
- not scouting
*Yes, that went downhill because I was concentrating on other issues.*
- not attacking when you should be
- attacking when you shouldn't be
*Can't comment much here*
- not expanding when you should be
*With Z, I always get a fast exp or fast enough, but, I rarely get a third because sometimes I win games before the need for it. For T/P, I rarely get an exp since I'm getting the timings down for everything else.*
- not using inject larva/mules/chronoboost efficiently
*How can you use inject larvae or mule efficiently? Other than getting the timing down. As for cb, I mostly cb probes at start, some units if I need to make defense or timing attack, some upgrades and warpgate tech. I hate storing energy for cb so I try to use it, sometimes likely less efficiently though.*
...just a few general ones.


If you don't mind ^^


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you need to watch a zerg stream, watch Destiny aka Steven Bonnell II. He's funny as hell, BMs, rages, and all of that in a hilarious way. He recently got banned for trolling a fellow streamer though







(so just search Steven bonnell on Ustream).

Seriously this guy makes me laugh every night. Commentates what he does too.


hahaha, Steven Bonnell put the VOD up of him trolling Syndicate. It was HILARIOUS.

But hey, Syndicate IS* 7-2 against him, rofl.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


hahaha, Steven Bonnell put the VOD up of him trolling Syndicate. It was HILARIOUS.

But hey, Syndicate IS* 7-2 against him, rofl.


In the beta they played a lot of games for some odd reason and went 6-1.
Then a few days ago they went 1-1 and because they BM'd each other, Syndicate went ape ***** over him after winning (not after losing). For about 2 hours he kept watching the replay, criticizing everything Destiny did, trashtalking, skyping friends to talk about it, and then, I kid you not,_ freestyled_ about him. Twice. The next day he was still watching the replay and freestyled again (and Steven recorded it, check the vods).

The guy clearly has issues.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


can i add you yks? PTR or retail?


yeee. feel free to message me anytime.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


In the beta they played a lot of games for some odd reason and went 6-1.
Then a few days ago they went 1-1 and because they BM'd each other, Syndicate went ape ***** over him after winning (not after losing). For about 2 hours he kept watching the replay, criticizing everything Destiny did, trashtalking, skyping friends to talk about it, and then, I kid you not,_ freestyled_ about him. Twice. The next day he was still watching the replay and freestyled again (and Steven recorded it, check the vods).

The guy clearly has issues.


I think I will check it out soon.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


In the beta they played a lot of games for some odd reason and went 6-1.
Then a few days ago they went 1-1 and because they BM'd each other, Syndicate went ape ***** over him after winning (not after losing). For about 2 hours he kept watching the replay, criticizing everything Destiny did, trashtalking, skyping friends to talk about it, and then, I kid you not,_ freestyled_ about him. Twice. The next day he was still watching the replay and freestyled again (and Steven recorded it, check the vods).

The guy clearly has issues.


LOL

That is awesome. Is there a recording of this somewhere? Would have been hilarious to have seen it live.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


See, that's the kicker. I've had games where everything was stellar and perfectly timed, was satisfied even if I lost or won.


Care to share? I love watching replays. I ended up deleting like 2megs of replays earlier, had to clean up the folder.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I heard his 100th episode was interesting(life story), but, other than that, no other episodes have interested me










There is NO way that there is absolutely nothing that can help you there. He has touched everything  I can think of on the game, heck, he even points out the big AND the subtle mistakes that pro players make on the fly during bing tournaments (namely a mistake Huk made vs Incontrol at the Rootgaming finals recently about spliting units, or choosing optimal attack routes to defend expos.

Hey Cram, add me too:

Nevaziah , code 101


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


LOL

That is awesome. Is there a recording of this somewhere? Would have been hilarious to have seen it live.


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/destiny-zero-s-sc2-stream
Check the vods at the bottom. In chronological order I think it's "syndicate trolll", then "Syndicate trolling", and finally "counter troll of synd". You'll miss a lot of the funny stuff though, you just had to be there xD

Also this guy is the only non-featured stream (probably because he BM's and rages so much lol) to get up to 2k viewers while laddering. Simply because he's so funny to watch. And he's not bad either, he's in the top 200 of NA.

And he's in your division Doom.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


And he's in your division Doom.


cool







.

Destiny Zerg.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Hey Cram, add me too:

Nevaziah , code 101


done~ anyone else?

anyway vent vent vent plax~

OT: SC2 crashed several times after adding friends...*** LOL...hard crashed and had to reboot...frack me...


----------



## thiru

When I'm back home, I'll try to get a vent or TS3 channel on TL's servers started, if you don't do one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


In the beta they played a lot of games for some odd reason and went 6-1.
Then a few days ago they went 1-1 and because they BM'd each other, Syndicate went ape ***** over him after winning (not after losing). For about 2 hours he kept watching the replay, criticizing everything Destiny did, trashtalking, skyping friends to talk about it, and then, I kid you not,_ freestyled_ about him. Twice. The next day he was still watching the replay and freestyled again (and Steven recorded it, check the vods).

The guy clearly has issues.


Freestyle? Sorry, not very familiar with term







Other than that, that sounds ..... interesting









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Care to share? I love watching replays. I ended up deleting like 2megs of replays earlier, had to clean up the folder.


I'll search around and try and find one where I played my best to post up although it'll take me a while. I do have one in mind but I think I'll keep it on the side if I can't find a sustitute









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


There is NO way that there is *absolutely nothing that can help you there*. He has touched everything  I can think of on the game, heck, he even points out the big AND the subtle mistakes that pro players make on the fly during bing tournaments (namely a mistake Huk made vs Incontrol at the Rootgaming finals recently about spliting units, or choosing optimal attack routes to defend expos.

Hey Cram, add me too:

Nevaziah , code 101


Not this again







Anyways, I never said he can't help, just that I'm not interested atm







Sorry, but, not interested in starting up this discussion again.
/day 9 discussion

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


OT: *SC2 crashed several times after adding friends*...*** LOL...hard crashed and had to reboot...frack me...


lol, SC2 hates you


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Freestyle? Sorry, not very familiar with term







Other than that, that sounds ..... interesting









I'll search around and try and find one where I played my best to post up although it'll take me a while. I do have one in mind but I think I'll keep it on the side if I can't find a sustitute










Freestyling is improvised rap if you will. This is the VOD:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11551671

But that's only like half of what he sang, the first time was 'fresher' and so much funnier.
You know you've made a big impression on someone when he rages and raps about you.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


When I'm back home, I'll try to get a vent or TS3 channel on TL's servers started, if you don't do one.


nice~! post the server when you're done with it XD so i can get gosu coaching~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, SC2 hates you










yeah haven't played with her for a while now


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


If you don't mind ^^


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=176970


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


done~ anyone else?

anyway vent vent vent plax~

OT: SC2 crashed several times after adding friends...*** LOL...hard crashed and had to reboot...frack me...


Well, at least we are added, that`s all that matters









Oh by the way, what race do you play?


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Well, at least we are added, that`s all that matters









Oh by the way, what race do you play?


terran imba imba qq moar LOL...i play Terran...used to be Toss during SC1


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


not sure, will have to check that, not on TL much









You mean a bane bust? I can't recall trying it before. I'm the non-conventional player in the sense that I rarely cheese and play the game straightforward. Do you exp because as I recall, you shouldn't when you try it?


Yeah, bane bust with slings. It's not an all-in strat. If you do it right you can start your lair while the attack is in progress and still keep sending more slings across the map. If you don't win outright after the bust your expo will come pretty late, but that's okay because all the fighting causes your opponent to have a late expo as well. If your opponent expanded before the baneling bust then he's already dead meat. Your slings will just overwhelm him after the wall comes down.


----------



## ThumperSD

This thread grows so fast I cant even keep up lol. Does SC2 gears save replay in separate directory than the default replay folder in My Documents? And how can I force it to save more recent replays at one time? I want my last 30 replays to be saved


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11743734*
> This thread grows so fast I cant even keep up lol. Does SC2 gears save replay in separate directory than the default replay folder in My Documents? And how can I force it to save more recent replays at one time? I want my last 30 replays to be saved


C:\SC2Replay Archive


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11743734*
> This thread grows so fast I cant even keep up lol. Does SC2 gears save replay in separate directory than the default replay folder in My Documents? And how can I force it to save more recent replays at one time? I want my last 30 replays to be saved


You can chose the directory in settings. Default is 'Replays Archive' or something on the same drive where it's installed. You can't make it save past replays, but it will save any new replays that appear when the program is running.

Is anyone going to watch Idra vs NaYeBo (Pros vs Joes) match today? It's in couple of hours. Probably gonna be roflstomp, but may be fun to watch.


----------



## DoomDash

Link to where it will be shown?

Edit

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177949


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177949


----------



## thiru

GSL 3 Finals review
Quote:


> There was little surprise that at the end of the night, oGsMC would be the one standing with the trophy in his hand. Concluding yet another and most likely our most exciting season yet, the GSL trophy sits tightly in the hands of another ex-BW pro. While his victory was perhaps not as symbolic as FruitDealer's earlier victory, oGsMC brings to the table a whole new element. A rather outspoken individual, oGsMC has never been afraid to speak (or dance) his mind. His pragmatic play has always been praised by his peers, but it was nerves and the lack of high-profile exposure that stifle his progress. But now, that's all put behind him. Here, we see a new oGsMC, not MBC Suicide Toss. As confident as he is skilled, MC won convincingly through times where Protoss outcries for justice is abundant.


<3 oGsMC


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11743980*
> GSL 3 Finals review
> 
> <3 oGsMC


He's pretty cool..... for a Protoss player.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744088*
> He's pretty cool..... for a Protoss player.


Hell yeah he's cool.
Quote:


> *Any last words of thanks for your practice partners or fans?*
> 
> TheStc and Hyperdub helped me a lot, especially want to give a big thanks to TheStc. I'd like to thank the foreign fans for their incredible attention, and it would be awesome if a lot of pretty female fans came to watch when I compete in foreign tournaments in the future.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding. I hope everyone comes and cheers me on. Thank you.










don't see lots of koreans saying that in public


----------



## DoomDash

Finally set up a SC1 sound track play list.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm watching the Terran that is playing idrA, I'm convinced I'm better or around the same level. He just has a **** ton of games played.


----------



## CramComplex

what's the stream link?


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.livestream.com/nayebo

He's just laddering atm.


----------



## Allenssmart

guys add me!!

zombiehunter

711

i suck. wanna help me?

btw, i did my first 1v1 against a real person today omg!

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=175812


----------



## CramComplex

k thanks...man gotta go to work...ugh,...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744501*
> I'm watching the Terran that is playing idrA, I'm convinced I'm better or around the same level. He just has a **** ton of games played.


More pew pew less QQ


----------



## DoomDash

He just lost to pure sling bane in like 7 min. I feel ya brah.

I have a way better TvZ build too I might add.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11744597*
> More pew pew less QQ


Less FPS, more RTS.

owned.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11744554*
> guys add me!!
> 
> zombiehunter
> 
> 711
> 
> i suck. wanna help me?
> 
> btw, i did my first 1v1 against a real person today omg!
> 
> http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=175812


Check the threads at the beginning. Especially the Day9 tuesday newbies.


----------



## DoomDash

lol his attempt at early aggression made me giggle.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744602*
> Less FPS, more RTS.
> 
> owned.


I'm not the one complaining


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11743884*
> You can chose the directory in settings. Default is 'Replays Archive' or something on the same drive where it's installed. You can't make it save past replays, but it will save any new replays that appear when the program is running.
> 
> Is anyone going to watch Idra vs NaYeBo (Pros vs Joes) match today? It's in couple of hours. Probably gonna be roflstomp, but may be fun to watch.


Not trying to save past replays but want to save my next 30 most recent replays. Will all replays be saved until I manually delete them?


----------



## poroboszcz

All replays of the games you play while the program is running will be saved. You can also specify the name for replays, e.g map - matchup.sc2replay or player names and races etc.


----------



## CramComplex

GosuGaming has a stream up for their x-mas special...

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/GG.net_Stream


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744501*
> I'm watching the Terran that is playing idrA, I'm convinced I'm better or around the same level. He just has a **** ton of games played.


Message him for a BO3 and we'll watch on his stream.


----------



## thiru

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jVzqbjJlTE[/ame]

The freestyle of the dude who went nuts over Destiny.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11744654*
> I'm not the one complaining


No just avoiding the problem all together







. Which is worse?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11745431*
> No just avoiding the problem all together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Which is worse?


QQing.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744598*
> He just lost to pure sling bane in like 7 min. I feel ya brah.
> 
> I have a way better TvZ build too I might add.


Idra did this to somebody? That's not like him. It's like me, and I ain't exactly pro material. But I do run a nice 7-minute sling/bling drill.


----------



## Sainesk

is there a link to the video/replay? curious on that build...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11745650*
> Idra did this to somebody? That's not like him. It's like me, and I ain't exactly pro material. But I do run a nice 7-minute sling/bling drill.


No that match hasn't started yet.

and Thiru you wish







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11744602*
> Less FPS, more RTS.
> 
> owned.


lol.

@poroboszcz Thanks for link, looking it over. Nothing too unusual, as in unexpected. I am interested in the mastery curve, because, I think I've experienced and still experiencing it atm. The most interesting part was the planning. I know I need to plan my games and sometimes I have an idea in mind of how I would approach the game, however, usually for T/P, I don't have a concrete plan, more of how to start and then react from there. I guess it's still considered a plan but not concrete of course. I also think I tech switch too much as T/P or try to use two many differents units that are costly(hts, colossi, dts, all gas heavy) which obviously isn't a good idea if you are on 2 bases









If anyone is interested in a game, going to be on in about an hour or so









Edit: Curious, what is defined as cheese? I know its somewhat of an all in, but, is building a bunker or slipping a worker to build a pylon or rax in an opponent's base considered cheese? Basically where is the line between cheese and legitimate play(no cheese)?


----------



## DoomDash

I do a bunker every TvZ and I don't consider it cheese. Maybe 2 bunkers at the ramp is cheese though ( or cannons / pylons ). It doesn't matter if you cheese as long as you don't depend on it.

I did that bunker block against someone the other day but I can't remember who now.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11746423*
> Edit: Curious, what is defined as cheese? I know its somewhat of an all in, but, is building a bunker or slipping a worker to build a pylon or rax in an opponent's base considered cheese? Basically where is the line between cheese and legitimate play(no cheese)?


It's subjective really. I consider any type of in-base proxy before 5-6 min is cheese though. All-ins arent necessarily cheesy to me unless you send all of your workers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11746600*
> I do a bunker every TvZ and I don't consider it cheese. Maybe 2 bunkers at the ramp is cheese though ( or cannons / pylons ). It doesn't matter if you cheese as long as you don't depend on it.
> 
> I did that bunker block against someone the other day but I can't remember who now.


The thing is, where's the line? I mean I could use a lot more strategies using bunkers for T, like how you can make pylons and warp into someone's base, etc.... but I'm not interested in cheesing someone because to me, that's not how to play, although, cheese every once in a while for fun isn't a bad idea


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11746622*
> It's *subjective really*. I consider any type of in-base proxy before 5-6 min is cheese though. All-ins arent necessarily cheesy to me unless you send all of your workers.


I think that's the main issue with cheese. I mean when I played as T against yks, I just had an SCV in his base and decided to have some fun and build a rax and bunkers. Of course, he eventually spotted it and it failed, but, it that considered cheese? I wish they have some kinda definition for it XD


----------



## ThumperSD

Id say building a proxy rax is cheese but the bunker isnt because you want to contain him in. You arent necessarily using it to win you the game right then. You just want to slow him down.


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11746651*
> I think that's the main issue with cheese. I mean when I played as T against yks, I just had an SCV in his base and decided to have some fun and build a rax and bunkers. Of course, he eventually spotted it and it failed, but, it that considered cheese? I wish they have some kinda definition for it XD


Having made-up words in common usage that, as it turns out, don't even have a real definition, is very rage-inducing for new players.

So I went out to the store today, but then unfortunately I cheesed. I was still able to grab a rax though, and it was still proxy.


----------



## DoomDash

I forgot about my newegg match tonight and the guy must not have tried not to get ahold of me... ah well my fault.

Guess I'm out.


----------



## Allenssmart

anybody want to train me?

zombiehunter

711


----------



## Gigalisk

Dont forget to hit me up on battle.net...see sig.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, that NaYeBo guy took 2 games from Idra. Totally worth $150 he payed.

Cheese is s high risk/high reward strategy mainly relying on surprise which, when scouted, should auto-lose you the game. So proxy gates, cannon rush, 6 pool, but also DT rush or super fast cloak banshees are all chese. Containing zerg with bunkers or cannons is not.

Speaking of which, have you seen this game?

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAJ6Om33vvc&feature=player_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAJ6Om33vvc&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAJ6Om33vvc&feature=player_embedded[/ame[/URL]]

Pretty cool stuff with immortals.


----------



## ThumperSD

I disagree about DT and banshee rush being cheese. I dont even think it's near cheese. Korean 4 gate is pretty damn cheesy though.


----------



## BigFan

hmm, I can see cannon rush, 6 pool and bunker rush being cheese, but, beyond that, nothing else. I mean proxy gateways/rax, that's not cheese because it's part of the game, etc....









@Doom Sorry to hear about your newegg tournament. Was kinda curious to see how far you'll get, maybe next year









Edit: Added in a replay where I played well. I won't give the direction link to it, however, you can find it if you get to my replays. It's the latest one. Reason for no link is to protect the involved person


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11746844*
> Lol, that NaYeBo guy took 2 games from Idra. Totally worth $150 he payed.
> 
> Cheese is s high risk/high reward strategy mainly relying on surprise which, when scouted, should auto-lose you the game. So proxy gates, cannon rush, 6 pool, but also DT rush or super fast cloak banshees are all chese. Containing zerg with bunkers or cannons is not.
> 
> Speaking of which, have you seen this game?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAJ6Om33vvc&feature=player_embedded
> 
> Pretty cool stuff with immortals.


Yah that was cool.

I had someone try that style of contain against me before on steppes of war, but it didn't work out nearly as well for them


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11746651*
> I mean when I played as T against yks, I just had an SCV in his base and decided to have some fun and build a rax and bunkers. Of course, he eventually spotted it and it failed


You still have that replay?

I still don't know how 4 bunkers failed, T_T


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11746844*
> Lol, that NaYeBo guy took 2 games from Idra. Totally worth $150 he payed.
> 
> Cheese is s high risk/high reward strategy mainly relying on surprise which, when scouted, should auto-lose you the game. So proxy gates, cannon rush, 6 pool, but also DT rush or super fast cloak banshees are all chese. Containing zerg with bunkers or cannons is not.
> 
> Speaking of which, have you seen this game?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAJ6Om33vvc&feature=player_embedded
> 
> Pretty cool stuff with immortals.


I didn't like the way the zerg guy played it. He kept making roaches after immortals appeared. Roaches are absolute garbage against immortals. Anything would have been preferrable. In lieu of nydus/roach he could have upgraded overlords into fast transports and dropped speedlings into the protoss main. Or gotten mutas maybe? Anything but roaches. Immortals are stupid good against roaches. It's not even fair.


----------



## DoomDash

DoomDash vs 2400 Zerg practice partner ( MasterLaw )

6-1 for the day! Can you Z players give him tips.. or anyone really cause he doesn't know what he's doing wrong. I keep telling him to learn how to beat my push, and to drone harder.

Attaching replay pack.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11747621*
> 
> @Doom Sorry to hear about your newegg tournament. Was kinda curious to see how far you'll get, maybe next year


Thanks. My fault


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11748563*
> DoomDash vs 2400 Zerg practice partner ( MasterLaw )
> 
> 6-1 for the day! Can you Z players give him tips.. or anyone really cause he doesn't know what he's doing wrong. I keep telling him to learn how to beat my push, and to drone harder.
> 
> Attaching replay pack.
> 
> Thanks. My fault


I'll look at it, but, from what I've seen previously, he just needs to drone a lot more. If I notice anything else, I'll type it here








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11748544*
> I didn't like the way the zerg guy played it. He kept making roaches after immortals appeared. Roaches are absolute garbage against immortals. Anything would have been preferrable. In lieu of nydus/roach he could have upgraded overlords into fast transports and dropped speedlings into the protoss main. Or gotten mutas maybe? Anything but roaches. *Immortals are stupid good against roaches*. It's not even fair.


They are crazy good. Everytime I seen an immortal in a P's army, I die a little inside








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11748225*
> You still have that replay?
> 
> I still don't know how 4 bunkers failed, T_T


I probably do. How? Well, I tried to move up and draw your forces in, kind of provoke an attack, but, with only on SCVs, you had too many units for the 2 filled bunkers


----------



## yks

Pretty good games today. 4 games against BigFan, 1 against Vdek, and 1 against MasterLaw.

Then DoomDash went to bed like a baby.

If you sacrificed your expansion and had +1 armor instead of attack, I would've been in a world of hurt, vdek.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11749358*
> had +1 armor instead of attack


lulz


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11749362*
> lulz


It's true!


----------



## CramComplex

vacation is in session...anyone up fora game? of course to roflstomp me


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11749370*
> It's true!


I'm just poking at vdek, Doom him and me had talked about it.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11749374*
> vacation is in session...anyone up fora game? of course to roflstomp me


Ill be online in 5 hours from now (at work presently) but im leaving early.

Edit: I need some hardcore practice as terran vs whaterver. I tended to finish my games VERY quickly before going into diamond and now I need to up my game with a finer late game (3rd base etc..), Considering I play random, this is very important







.

Also im trying to refine unit compositions for terran, mostly vs protoss vs colossi and how to micro wtih tanks and the MMM ball.


----------



## yks

I hate how sc2ranks doesn't show the CC no more, T_T


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11749358*
> Pretty good games today. 4 games against BigFan, 1 against Vdek, and 1 against MasterLaw.
> 
> *Then DoomDash went to bed* like a baby.
> 
> If you sacrificed your expansion and had +1 armor instead of attack, I would've been in a world of hurt, vdek.


lol, I know. I was thinking we were going to do a couple more games only for him to decide to go to sleep XD You did well indeed. watching that last game on Plateau, it's hilarious to see how much of a discussion was going on during the game








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11749374*
> vacation is in session...anyone up fora game? of course to roflstomp me


If only you were on an hour earlier, lol, but, I'll try to be on, 2ish or so EST, so, that we can get a game going








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;11750127*
> Ill be online in 5 hours from now (at work presently) but im leaving early.
> 
> Edit: I need some hardcore practice as terran vs whaterver. I tended to finish my games *VERY quickly* before going into diamond and now I need to up my game with a finer late game (3rd base etc..), Considering I play random, this is very important
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also im trying to refine unit compositions for terran, mostly vs protoss vs colossi and how to micro wtih tanks and the MMM ball.


Not a good thing, too quickly means no experience. SSC(stalker, sentry, coloss) wreck MMM like there is no tommorrow. I think MMMTG is your best bet. EMP them especially colossi, engage in wide area(concave), stim and focus fire colossi with tanks(possibly with other units). Thors are great 1vs1 but lose easily to colossi until you get cannons(why did I just think of this now? Could've used it in my game last night







). At least, this is the way I see it


----------



## Mwarren

The best units TvP IMO are ravens and banshees. Ravens drop a PDD to shut down stalker play, marines take out observers, and banshees rape stalkers, collosi, and all other ground units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11751177*
> The best units TvP IMO are ravens and banshees. Ravens drop a PDD to shut down stalker play, marines take out observers, and banshees rape stalkers, collosi, and all other ground units.


Darn, can't believe I forgot about PDD as well last night







Banshees are good, however, I think stalkers are better in the long time(blibk, etc....). Wondering who will win, 1vs? hmm.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11751177*
> The best units TvP IMO are ravens and banshees. Ravens drop a PDD to shut down stalker play, marines take out observers, and banshees rape stalkers, collosi, and all other ground units.


I agree.


----------



## Katana

Can someone clarify the Raven's Point Defense Drone for me? I've been under the impression that, for its entire lifetime, it automatically destroys any and all projectiles fired by the enemy, essentially meaning that if all your enemies fire projectiles (like missiles, as opposed to lasers or hitscan bullets), then they will deal absolutely no damage until the PDD dies.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Can someone clarify the Raven's Point Defense Drone for me? I've been under the impression that, for its entire lifetime, it automatically destroys any and all projectiles fired by the enemy, essentially meaning that if all your enemies fire projectiles (like missiles, as opposed to lasers or hitscan bullets), then they will deal absolutely no damage until the PDD dies.


Yah, but the PDD doesn't shoot projectiles fired at the PDD itself. Also it has a limited amount of energy and every projectile it shoots down depletes that energy. I believe its 10 for a standard PDD and 20 for an upgraded PDD.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Can someone clarify the Raven's Point Defense Drone for me? I've been under the impression that, for its entire lifetime, it automatically destroys any and all projectiles fired by the enemy, essentially meaning that if all your enemies fire projectiles (like missiles, as opposed to lasers or hitscan bullets), then they will deal absolutely no damage until the PDD dies.


I would also like a clarification as well. I know it stops projecticles but it doesn't stop the marauder's attack, only marine? Why? Is it because it's a bullet compared to a nade?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yah, but the PDD doesn't shoot projectiles fired at the PDD itself. Also it has a limited amount of energy and every projectile it shoots down depletes that energy. I believe its 10 for a standard PDD and 20 for an upgraded PDD.


Pretty sure it shoots down any visible projectile, regardless of who it's aimed at. Otherwise people would just shoot it down, it's only got 50 health.
Upgrading the PDD will increase its spawn duration, it doesn't make it twice as effective.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I would also like a clarification as well. I know it stops projecticles but it doesn't stop the marauder's attack, only marine? Why? Is it because it's a bullet compared to a nade?










It stops marauder attacks but not marine bullets. Probably because if a PDD had to stop a marine's bullets it'd run out of energy within seconds.

But it's mostly game balance.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Pretty sure it shoots down any visible projectile, regardless of who it's aimed at. Otherwise people would just shoot it down, it's only got 50 health.
Upgrading the PDD will increase its spawn duration, it doesn't make it twice as effective.

It stops marauder attacks but *not marine bullets*. Probably because if a PDD had to stop a marine's bullets it'd run out of energy within seconds.

But it's mostly game balance.


oh, oops, thought it was the other way around







Although, I always thought it prevents the opponent's attacks from connecting, so, yours still connect?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oh, oops, thought it was the other way around







Although, I always thought it prevents the opponent's attacks from connecting, so, yours still connect?


Yes.


----------



## Nevaziah

The point defense drone stops 'reasonable' speed projectiles, so the following:

Stalker, marauder, Mutalisk, Hydralisk, Spore crawler, Queen, Phoenix, Phonton Cannon, Battlecruiser, Thor(air only), Missile turret, Banshee.
So things you CAN actually SEE coming.

It WILL NOT stop the Marine bullets (most faster than sound







), Siege tank shells (good luck seing THAT coming), Roach (because its kind of a mini inundation splash than a projectile really), Archon (it not really a projectile since it STAYS connected to the archon)
Oh, and it wont stop the yamato cannon (overwhelming force







)

http://starcraft.incgamers.com/wiki/Point_Defense_Drone


----------



## Katana

Marines are sort of a "hitscan" - you never see the bullets midflight, so there's nothing for the PDD to shoot.

I think the energy thing is what I didn't know about. Thanks for the advice.
I'm sort of thinking that as inefficient a strategy it probably is, making an army of Ravens seems like a fun strategy. Certainly more fun than an army of Science Vessels.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Upgrading the PDD will increase its spawn duration, it doesn't make it twice as effective.


Actually kind of does.

Quote:



This research increases the Point Defense Drone's timed duration to 240 seconds of game time. This increased lifespan allows the Point Defense Drone to regenerate additional energy to block more shots. It also provides the Terran player to place the Point Defensive Drone at expected battle areas preemptively, allowing the Ravens to regenerate additional energy.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Actually kind of does.


Not really what I'd call twice as effective.


----------



## vdek

One of my friends got me the banshee headset for Christmas. APM lighting system, lol...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


One of my friends got me the banshee headset for Christmas. APM lighting system, lol...


Banshee headset? Never heard of it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm just poking at vdek, Doom him and me had talked about it.


When I saw yks getting +1 and vdek getting +1 attack I was like yeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssss. I told him not to do that but he didn't listen... maybe now he will.


----------



## DoomDash

Here are the notable games from last night:


----------



## Lune

Is it just me or mmm is close to impossible to stop deep in the game

I have won so many games even with 1 vs 4 (not saying they werent bad) but still, 1 vs 4 speaks for it self.. shoot + stop shoot + stop is like instant kill on any unit


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Here are the notable games from last night:






You mean that Shakuras Plateau game I played against yks wasn't notable? I for one, am shocked


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lune*


Is it just me or mmm is close to impossible to stop deep in the game

I have won so many games even with 1 vs 4 (not saying they werent bad) but still, 1 vs 4 speaks for it self.. shoot + stop shoot + stop is like instant kill on any unit


Slings+banes take out MMM pretty easily. Add in FG and well, it becomes too easy, however, microing is why MMM can also be hard to stop. If you can micro well and your opponent can't ff well/get a surround, then MMM can be pretty difficult to stop


----------



## Katana

It might be sort of a crutch to newer players, but what I think might be awesome is an "alert" system for certain events. ie, an enemy enters your visual range, a certain unit finishes building (highlighted when nothing else is happening, but often unable to hear over other things. Besides, some people may want to know about a certain one, like a detector unit) I would be using banelings for defense, myself, but I can never have them burrowed in quite the right position. I would just autocast unburrow, but that never seems to get them out at precisely the right time (hitting the front of the mass, rather than the middle)


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Banshee headset? Never heard of it




















lol....

http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/apmlighting.php

gimmicky, but pretty cool nonetheless. Headset is decent, reminds me of my Razer carcharias, nothing exceptional.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


When I saw yks getting +1 and vdek getting +1 attack I was like yeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssss. I told him not to do that but he didn't listen... maybe now he will.










It really depends on scouting information, if I had seen that forge with chrono I would have known he was going +1 attack early and +1 carapace would have been the right choice. Without that information though, +1 melee is better blindly. I need to scout better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


It might be sort of a crutch to newer players, but what I think might be awesome is an* "alert" system *for certain events. ie, an enemy enters your visual range, a certain unit finishes building (highlighted when nothing else is happening, but often unable to hear over other things. Besides, some people may want to know about a certain one, like a detector unit) I would be using banelings for defense, myself, but I can never have them burrowed in quite the right position. I would just autocast unburrow, but that never seems to get them out at precisely the right time (hitting the front of the mass, rather than the middle)


For T, that sensor tower plays wonders. Place it near an opponent's base and you can see everything that moves, probably take some good guesses based on what you see. As for banes, I don't burrow them, rather move them into MMM with slings first of course









yks, I attacked the replay. Again, I still find it interesting how long the conversation went in the game









^^Ah, I see, seen that headset before, never knew it was called a banshee though XD


----------



## yks

You what the replay? That I still didn't receive yet!


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


It really depends on scouting information, if I had seen that forge with chrono I would have known he was going +1 attack early and +1 carapace would have been the right choice. Without that information though, +1 melee is better blindly. I need to scout better.


I feel +1 armor is better, regardless, blind. Statistically its just better.

Lings do 5dmg, with +1, it's 6dmg, so that's only a *+1 gain*

However, with +1 armor, against a Zealot who does 8x2 damage (16dmg) the +1 armor will make it 7x2 damage (14 damage) so its minus 2 dmg.

Therefore, +1 attack gives you only a +1 gain
Versus +1 armor which gives you a +2 gain.

So for the same price, armor is just statistically better to get. Unless you're revolving your strat around some +1 baneling ownage.


----------



## l337sft

I need more people to play with, i feel so alone when im playing, add me for some team games or something. Code 801, Name - Leetums


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You what the replay? That I still didn't receive yet!


I attached it in the previous post, why it didn't show up is beyond me








hmm, wondering where it is now XD Going into sc2 to see unsaved folder, because, both plateau games saved aren't the right one :/


----------



## Lune

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11753091*
> Slings+banes take out MMM pretty easily. Add in FG and well, it becomes too easy, however, microing is why MMM can also be hard to stop. If you can micro well and your opponent can't ff well/get a surround, then MMM can be pretty difficult to stop


I never had problems with banelings.. just use the damn speed and run away - heal up - attack somewhere else (Talkin about 3v3 or 4v4)


----------



## DoomDash

3v3 and 4v4 are different game all together. What applies there does not apply in 1v1.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11753178*
> For T, that sensor tower plays wonders. Place it near an opponent's base and you can see everything that moves, probably take some good guesses based on what you see. As for banes, I don't burrow them, rather move them into MMM with slings first of course
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yks, I attacked the replay. Again, I still find it interesting how long the conversation went in the game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Ah, I see, seen that headset before, never knew it was called a banshee though XD


That sensor tower was in a horrible spot. That was a waste of money and if yks wasn't playing with one hand he would have just killed it in 2 seconds you would have wasted all that money. You don't use sensor towers like that, you use them defensively.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11753837*
> That sensor tower was in a horrible spot. That was a waste of money and if yks *wasn't playing with one hand* he would have just killed it in 2 seconds you would have wasted all that money. You don't use sensor towers like that, you use them defensively.


I know it was, however, as I mentioned before, I do wacky things when playing with friends, that was one of them XD Gotta remember I had a ton of resources which I wasn't using, idea was to mostly track his movements. I was planning to lay it down in my base but decided against it at that moment. I would love to see him playing with one hand, as in proof of it. Pics or it didn't happen!









BTW, just talked with Chad, not sure if you guys recall, but, he posted here on how hard it is to get into Korean diamond, etc.... Good news, got his rig up and running, so, he'll likely be on later tonight, should be interesting









Edit: Here's that bizzare TvsP we played last night: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/119609-1v1-terran-protoss-shakuras-plateau
I want to thank doom for the commentary though XD


----------



## DoomDash

I'm pretty sure he was playing with one hand. I was watching the game. He was not playing hard.

Anyway, maybe some of your fool around time could be fooling around yet still showing us you know how to spend money and build units. Maybe some day? Like a super nice economy / macro game where you build 200 marines but you keep your money low and get good upgrades? Still fun, but still showing us you can play this game well







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11753961*
> I'm pretty sure he was playing with one hand. I was watching the game. He was not playing hard.
> 
> Anyway, maybe some of your fool around time could be fooling around yet still showing us you know how to spend money and build units. Maybe some day? *Like a super nice economy / macro game* where you build 200 marines but you keep your money low and get good upgrades? Still fun, but still showing us you can play this game well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I haven't fully watched it yet to see this, but, I was surprised at lack of attacks. Well, my eco wasn't bad at the start. I got an early exp, SCV'd up. I just don't lay down enough structures to make units since I'm used to Z's structure(hatcheries for everything) and I forget to make army units a lot of the time whenever my queue finishes. Although from now on, I will be making more structures in my next T/P game









Well, let's put it this way. 200 marine against colossi is instant death for them XD I just didn't have a plan in mind going into that match other than expand early, tech up, scv hard and keep an eye on his movements(reason I made tower in that odd spot). I find against colossi, MMM is pretty ineffective especially if combined with SS or even ZS. Should've researched cannons, considered I had 3 thors and high ground. Anyways, I'll make sure to play a better game next time I'm T


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754032*
> I haven't fully watched it yet to see this, but, I was surprised at lack of attacks. Well, my eco wasn't bad at the start. I got an early exp, SCV'd up. I just don't lay down enough structures to make units since I'm used to Z's structure(hatcheries for everything) and I forget to make army units a lot of the time whenever my queue finishes. Although from now on, I will be making more structures in my next T/P game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's put it this way. 200 marine against colossi is instant death for them XD I just didn't have a plan in mind going into that match other than expand early, tech up, scv hard and keep an eye on his movements(reason I made tower in that odd spot). I find against colossi, MMM is pretty ineffective especially if combined with SS or even ZS. Should've researched cannons, considered I hate 3 thors and high ground. Anyways, I'll make sure to play a better game next time I'm T


Well I'm just saying practice macro while fooling around ( get mass ravens I don't care ).

Also Terran almost always has 95% MMM vs Protoss so get used to it.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754032*
> Well, let's put it this way. 200 marine against colossi is instant death for them XD I just didn't have a plan in mind going into that match other than expand early, tech up, scv hard and keep an eye on his movements(reason I made tower in that odd spot). I find against colossi, MMM is pretty ineffective especially if combined with SS or even ZS. Should've researched cannons, considered I had 3 thors and high ground. Anyways, I'll make sure to play a better game next time I'm T


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWh4aMAj5rY[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754048*
> Well I'm just saying practice macro while fooling around ( *get mass ravens I don't care* ).
> 
> Also Terran almost always has *95% MMM vs Protoss* so get used to it.


That's pretty high, are you sure it isn't lower? Sensing made up stats here, but, I agree. Most T games have MMM in them, it just doesn't make the race as unique if you are to make the same unit composition but nothing to do but wait for patches. I think thors+cannons would've helped against those colossi though.
As for mass ravens, well, I would like to do that, but, they are soo expensive and some feedback which is quite cheap(50) from hts would take most of them down :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11754063*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWh4aMAj5rY


thanks, will try and watch, guessing it has some good tips, don't mind artosis casting it either


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754074*
> That's pretty high, are you sure it isn't lower? Sensing made up stats here, but, I agree. Most T games have MMM in them, it just doesn't make the race as unique if you are to make the same unit composition but nothing to do but wait for patches. I think thors+cannons would've helped against those colossi though.
> As for mass ravens, well, I would like to do that, but, they are soo expensive and some feedback which is quite cheap(50) from hts would take most of them down :/


No it's not 95% but its easily majority. Thor's are OK paired in but nothing to write home about. Once they get a decent ball getting in 250 MM cannon range is nearly impossible ( when they have range 9 ).

Raven's are good for sure but very gas heavy, and usually by that tech templars are pretty good at nullifying them.

If you think SSCZ is good, you haven't seen anything yet. Try SSCZT and then let me know what you think, because Colossus with that army aint **** compared to Templars being paired in.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754088*
> thanks, will try and watch, guessing it has some good tips, don't mind artosis casting it either


You don't mind Artosis, but you mind Day9? =[


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11754193*
> You don't mind Artosis, but you mind Day9? =[


He likes Artosis's blatant Zerg favoritism.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11753014*
> Here are the notable games from last night:


Vdek got way too greedy way too early. I was wondering how the hell he was going to defend himself after blowing all his cash on hatcheries and drones and letting that Toss probe see everything there was to see. Turns out, he wasn't going to defend himself. Toss army walked right into the main.

The ZvZ game was interesting. Poorly executed baneling bust at 6:10 by NorthKorea. Hardly worth bothering. And I don't know why NK didn't think to try a speedling run in the mid or late game. He got fixated on roaches and mutas despite having a gazillion minerals in the bank and 4 hatcheries to generate larvae. There were a few times a speedling ball could have ran through MasterLaw's bases and slaughtered mass drones with little loss, as well as destroying those annoying sporecrawlers. Also, IMO infestors should be burrowed by default. They should only surface to cast fungal growth, then go back underground. NK used his infestors to good effect but he kept losing them needlessly because he left them above ground for no reason. When infestors aren't casting they're nothing but a juicy target. There's no reason to have them loitering above ground.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11754301*
> Vdek got way too greedy way too early. I was wondering how the hell he was going to defend himself after blowing all his cash on hatcheries and drones and letting that Toss probe see everything there was to see. Turns out, he wasn't going to defend himself. Toss army walked right into the main.
> 
> The ZvZ game was interesting. Poorly executed baneling bust at 6:10 by NorthKorea. Hardly worth bothering. And I don't know why NK didn't think to try a speedling run in the mid or late game. He got fixated on roaches and mutas despite having a gazillion minerals in the bank and 4 hatcheries to generate larvae. There were a few times a speedling ball could have ran through MasterLaw's bases and slaughtered mass drones with little loss, as well as destroying those annoying sporecrawlers. Also, IMO infestors should be burrowed by default. They should only surface to cast fungal growth, then go back underground. NK used his infestors to good effect but he kept losing them needlessly because he left them above ground for no reason. When infestors aren't casting they're nothing but a juicy target. There's no reason to have them loitering above ground.


Actually I like vdeks build, if you really look the only reason he lost was because he got +1 attack instead of +1 armor for his lings. He almost took out all the Zealots WITH +1 attack, imagine how bad he would have slaughtered them with +1 armor. Zealots 1 less attack swipe with +1, but Z +1 armor cancels it out.

Also I agree with yks, NEVER good to go +1 as Z blind. Sorry vdek.


----------



## poroboszcz

@BigFan: This is directed specifically at players of your type: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11754340*
> @BigFan: This is directed specifically at players of your type: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/.


He's too cool to watch that. He doesn't need any help.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11754193*
> You don't mind Artosis, but you mind Day9? =[


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754201*
> He likes Artosis's blatant Zerg favoritism.


OMG, not this again







I don't even know when race Artosis plays, I thought he was P or something. Either way, I'm not biting


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754323*
> Actually I like vdeks build, if you really look the only reason he lost was because he got +1 attack instead of +1 armor for his lings. He almost took out all the Zealots WITH +1 attack, imagine how bad he would have slaughtered them with +1 armor. Zealots 1 less attack swipe with +1, but Z +1 armor cancels it out.
> 
> Also I agree with yks, NEVER good to go +1 as Z blind. Sorry vdek.


The Toss attack was a little too leisurely IMO. Why stop to destroy the two expo hatcheries? So time-consuming to do that. Push into the main and kill the queens and drones and spawning pool. Faster and more effective to do that.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754350*
> He's too cool to watch that. He doesn't need any help.


But it's just so relevant. I've watched it just today and told my mate from bronze do the same. He literally addresses all kinds of things that make BigFan's way of thinking about the game wrong.

Edit: I kind of agree with Lucas Lamer. Only x4'd through the game, but that attack was relatively weak. If he couldn't hold that off what would he do against 12 blink stalkers exactly at the same time or 5 zealot + 6 stalker 1 minute earlier from a normal 4 gate.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11754401*
> But it's just so relevant. I've watched it just today and told my mate from bronze do the same. He literally addresses all kinds of things that make BigFan's way of thinking about the game wrong.


Day9 would help BigFan get better, we all know this. He knows this. BigFan would be a lot better and understand the game way more, but the fact is he doesn't want to be good at the game.


----------



## Allenssmart

void rays op. how do you counter them? i always get void ray rushed within like 10 minutes ahh!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11754474*
> void rays op. how do you counter them? i always get void ray rushed within like 10 minutes ahh!


What race are you playing as?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11754340*
> @BigFan: This is directed specifically at players of your type: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/.


thx, I might check it out, haven't had a chance to check the one from last night.
+REP for the effort to convince me though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11754392*
> The Toss attack was a little too leisurely IMO. Why stop to destroy the two expo hatcheries? So time-consuming to do that. Push into the main and kill the queens and drones and spawning pool. Faster and more effective to do that.


I agree, it felt a little too leisurely, or maybe those 4 games I had with yks beforehand took a toll on his health and thus he was slipping us, lol








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754419*
> Day9 would help BigFan get better, we all know this. *He knows this*. BigFan would be a lot better and understand the game way more, but the fact is he doesn't want to be good at the game.


XD Either way, why is it so hard to believe that I want to get good on my own? Is it really that hard to believe? This is what I hear: Watch Day9 or you'll never get better, completely false. He might speed up my rate, but, my rate increases with every game I play. I'm starting to put a lot more effort into my games now, so, we'll see the difference in a couple of month









Yes, I did bite in that case, lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754478*
> What race are you playing as?


Likely Terran. Marines with stim do great against VRs, Allenssmart


----------



## ThumperSD

Anybody know who played in the PvZ @ the Gisado tournament this morning (or last night) on Scrap Station? P went for double stargate into mass Phoenix vs Mutas. I need to get my hands on this replay some how. It will solve my muta problem.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754563*
> thx, I might check it out, haven't had a chance to check the one from last night.
> +REP for the effort to convince me though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XD Either way, why is it so hard to believe that I want to get good on my own? Is it really that hard to believe? This is what I hear: Watch Day9 or you'll never get better, completely false. He might speed up my rate, but, my rate increases with every game I play. I'm starting to put a lot more effort into my games now, so, we'll see the difference in a couple of month


Blah blah blah excuses excuses. By the time you get good we'll all be playing Diablo III.

Also where is my rep? I've tried to convince you just as much as anyone lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11754576*
> Anybody know who played in the PvZ @ the Gisado tournament this morning (or last night) on Scrap Station? P went for double stargate into mass Phoenix vs Mutas. I need to get my hands on this replay some how. It will solve my muta problem.


Sorry no clue, woke up later due to playing some games with yks last night. 2 gate stargate doesn't work well? I think once that 10sec less build time is patched into the game, 1 stargate might suffice if cb's a lot, just a guess though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754593*
> Blah blah blah *excuses excuses*. By the time you get good we'll all be playing Diablo III.
> 
> Also where is my rep? *I've tried to convince you just as much as anyone lol*.


XD It's the thing I loved about sc1. I never watched a single replay or talked to someone about it. I played the game the way I wanted and enjoyed every second of it which is why I picked up SC2 on launch day. By the end of playing sc1, I knew all about the different units, how to use them, different combos, etc.... If you don't believe that I want to get better on my own and that I'm using it as an excuse, then nothing I will say will convince you otherwise, since, we've went through this already like a gazillion times XD

hmm, seems you are implying you are going to leave SC2 for DIII. Shouldn't be the case, since, they are totally different from each other, so, you can play both simulatenously









As for rep, you didn't recieve it? I've sent it already in the mail a while back







However, you are correct, I'll give you a rep for that episode you posted that I still haven't watched


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754478*
> What race are you playing as?


terran


----------



## DoomDash

I'm just kidding I don't need your rep I was just joking.

Nah we'll see what happens with Diablo III. I am really excited about that game too. I think my playing SCII for a long time is also dependent on upon the expansions.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11754679*
> terran


As BigFan said marines are good vs void rays. If you see or suspect them just make sure to have a decent amount of Marines, shield, and stim.

Also, since you are new a very good standard build should be 3 rax into reactor starport. 2 rax with tech labs, 1 with reactor. Get the reactor starport for medivacs and if you see voids and you need extra help vs them vikings are really good vs void rays.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11754392*
> The Toss attack was a little too leisurely IMO. Why stop to destroy the two expo hatcheries? So time-consuming to do that. Push into the main and kill the queens and drones and spawning pool. Faster and more effective to do that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11754401*
> Edit: I kind of agree with Lucas Lamer. Only x4'd through the game, but that attack was relatively weak. If he couldn't hold that off what would he do against 12 blink stalkers exactly at the same time or 5 zealot + 6 stalker 1 minute earlier from a normal 4 gate.


I don't see how the attack was weak. Standard +1 timing push without missing a warp rotation, so the only thing that'll change is unit composition, but still the same amount of units.

What I chose to attack, however, is up for debate. I chose the overlords, hatches were just a by-product of having Zealots.


----------



## DoomDash

I liked yks's attack, a lot actually. I wasn't paying super close attention to it but it was a greatly timed attack. Also as far as going into he main that's not needed. You can just take out an expo, expand yourself and come out ahead without being greedy.


----------



## Gigalisk

Man, i just went like 4 str8 in wins...one of them, i cant beleieve it, i failed on a cannon rush...and still came back to win...see replay. Would have lost ****-tons of points...he was lower ranked, but bnet said even match.

...OOOO-KAAAAY....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754694*
> I'm just kidding *I don't need your rep* I was just joking.
> 
> Nah we'll see what happens with Diablo III. I am really excited about that game too. I think my playing SCII for a long time *is also dependent* on upon the expansions.


Really, I see and here I was being serious since both of you guys were trying hard to convince me, but, if you feel that way, I can call us the post office and try to track it down XD We still haven't had a 1vs1 in a while though









The expansions can't be all that bad, although, I know you aren't implying that. With the addition of 2-3 units per race, they'll be a lot more strats, not including all the patches till then which will change the different matchups(roach range, phenoix 10sec change, etc.... have/will change a lot)


----------



## DoomDash

I have high hopes for the expansions







. No worries.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754818*
> I have high hopes for the expansions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . No worries.


We'll see how you like it once lurkers are back!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754834*
> We'll see how you like it once lurkers are back!


I don't think that will happen, unless they remove units. Lurkers would overlap banes and infestors ( FG ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754846*
> I don't think that will happen, unless they remove units. Lurkers would overlap banes and infestors ( FG ).


One can be hopeful, can they not?









Edit: BTW, did you get a chance to watch the replay I was talking about?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11754714*
> I don't see how the attack was weak. Standard +1 timing push without missing a warp rotation, so the only thing that'll change is unit composition, but still the same amount of units.
> 
> What I chose to attack, however, is up for debate. I chose the overlords, hatches were just a by-product of having Zealots.


Not saying the build was weak on it's own. Just saying there are stronger timing pushes against zerg and since he wasn't able to hold this one off, it makes his build questionable.

At the time a normal 4 gate hits with 11 units he had 6 lings and pretty much nothing else. He got his first queen around 7 minutes. He didn't scout at the most obvious location for a proxy pylon. He didn't scout your base. After fast expanding he had less workers than you, doing all-in off one base. He would have also died to DT rush or fast VRs. He would pretty much die to anything that hits before 9 minutes.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11754597*
> Sorry no clue, woke up later due to playing some games with yks last night. 2 gate stargate doesn't work well? I think once that 10sec less build time is patched into the game, 1 stargate might suffice if cb's a lot, just a guess though


It was about 8+ phoenix vs 12+ mutas and P only lost 1 Phoenix the entire time. Z transitioned into hydras and still got pwned by Phoenix/zealot/stalker. I seriously need to learn that build order. My phoenix micro is good but I suffer from multi-tasking with an intense micro unit like that. My macro slips when I too much microing which loses me the game later. Mutas eventually outnumber my phoenix 5:1 even when I have double stargates.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11751177*
> The best units TvP IMO are ravens and banshees. Ravens drop a PDD to shut down stalker play, marines take out observers, and banshees rape stalkers, collosi, and all other ground units.


I have a lot of problems with Marine/Banshee/Raven because I rarely do an early timing push against T. Underused strategy in TvP IMO but will lose to a 4gate or 2gate/stargate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;11751648*
> The point defense drone stops 'reasonable' speed projectiles, so the following:
> 
> Stalker, marauder, Mutalisk, Hydralisk, Spore crawler, Queen, Phoenix, Phonton Cannon, Battlecruiser, Thor(air only), Missile turret, Banshee.
> So things you CAN actually SEE coming.
> 
> It WILL NOT stop the Marine bullets (most faster than sound
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), Siege tank shells (good luck seing THAT coming), Roach (because its kind of a mini inundation splash than a projectile really), Archon (it not really a projectile since it STAYS connected to the archon)
> Oh, and it wont stop the yamato cannon (overwhelming force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> http://starcraft.incgamers.com/wiki/Point_Defense_Drone


I never knew PDD worked against phoenix and mutas


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11754714*
> I don't see how the attack was weak. Standard +1 timing push without missing a warp rotation, so the only thing that'll change is unit composition, but still the same amount of units.
> 
> What I chose to attack, however, is up for debate. I chose the overlords, hatches were just a by-product of having Zealots.


Wasn't a weak attack force at all, I just thought the target selection made the attack more slow-developing than necessary. You could have gone straight for the jugular and attacked the queens, drones, and spawning pool. That would have been a quick gg.


----------



## vdek

I was too greedy that game.


----------



## ThumperSD

Woot found it:

http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/401598

It was Genius vs Leenock


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11755067*
> 
> I never knew PDD worked against phoenix and mutas


Why not? It works against any visible projectile.


----------



## ThumperSD

Because people recommend me getting Phoenix to take out Banshee/Raven so I kind of assumed they were immune to PDD. Muta was just a guess.


----------



## DoomDash

Void rays aren't affected.


----------



## Allenssmart

omg guys there's a starcraft 2 demo!


----------



## ThumperSD

How about carriers?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11755582*
> omg guys there's a starcraft 2 demo!


yes, indeed there is


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11755590*
> How about carriers?


They'll like run the PDD out of energy XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11755590*
> How about carriers?


Yeah but what BigFan said. Anything with visible shot. Void rays / Colossus lasers like that don't count.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11754340*
> @BigFan: This is directed specifically at players of your type: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/.


That's actually a really good daily, helped my game out a lot.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11754350*
> He's too cool to watch that. He doesn't need any help.


I have a friend with that same attitude, he's too cool to watch any replay. Stuck in platinum forever, actually doesn't even play 1v1s anymore.


----------



## ThumperSD

LOL

Well Bigfan do you consider youself as a casual SC2 player? Not that there's anything wrong with that at all. If you take the game as competitively as some of us you will eventually need to analyze replays.


----------



## DoomDash

When BigFan wakes up in the morning he looks forward to all the different ways he can lose.


----------



## Katana

He should play against me, then.

Quick question; is it better to have more than one of a certain unit? Like actually having TWO marines, for redundancy?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



sarcasm


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11756102*
> LOL
> 
> Well Bigfan do you consider youself as a casual SC2 player? Not that there's anything wrong with that at all. If you take the game as competitively as some of us you will eventually need to analyze replays.


Nothing wrong with being casual player. However he has nearly the most posts in this thread and is the one giving the most advices.


----------



## Katana

From the amount I'm looking at strategies, and how I compare to most other people in the rookie league, I worry that I'm not ending up as "casual" as I had hoped. It is still annoying when I can't figure out why I lost a game though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11756016*
> I have a friend with that *same attitude*, he's too cool to watch any replay. Stuck in platinum forever, actually doesn't even play 1v1s anymore.











Don't plan on re-writing everything I've written for the billionth time, post(s) should be two pages back+.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11756102*
> Well Bigfan do you consider youself as a *casual SC2 player*? Not that there's anything wrong with that at all. If you take the game as competitively as some of us you will eventually need to analyze replays.


Really, I have no clue. I try to get in as many games as possible, but, being limited due to net means that I can get probably around 2-3 a night if I'm not busy with life. If I keep at it, maybe a bit more, but, not more. Had to play a game 3 times last night with yks because I was dropped twice in a row XD

I'm somewhat competitive, but, I also accept that I can't win every game and I have a lot work ahead to improve myself . I do look at my replays to see what my opponent is doing and what I had at the moment he pushed, etc.... so that I get timings, different ideas, mistakes, etc.... Have a look at my 2nd latest replay, link in my sig. Then you can tell me how horrible I play Z as well :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11756284*
> He should play against me, then.
> 
> Quick question; is it better to have more than one of a certain unit? Like actually having TWO marines, for redundancy?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> sarcasm


Why not? Post your name/code and I'll add you, always looking for more people to 1vs1 with


----------



## DoomDash

Who was that playing on huggle thiru? Thiru doesn't even play this game.

Your money is so god damn high...and you took forever to get a 3rd, and TBH you shoulda been on a 5th or 6th at that point. Same problems.

Your Zerg is way way way way better than your Terran and Protoss though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11756574*
> Who was that playing on huggle thiru? Thiru doesn't even play this game.
> 
> Your money is so god damn high...and you took *forever to get a 3rd*, and TBH you shoulda been on a 5th or 6th at that point. Same problems.
> 
> Your *Zerg is way way way way better than your Terran and Protoss* though.


Yes, he was practicing because he was going to get back into it, personally, think it's a good idea before ladder reset on Jan 2. Maybe you didn't notice but I was on close positions on meta and expanding to a third too early without having some army would be a GG. I expanded when I had my 2 bases saturated and felt it was the right time. I don't expand just because I hit 75 supply or whatever.

Also, I had two almost fully saturated bases and was getting probably 1.5k minerals per minute. Other than laying down more structures, getting upgrades/abilities or teching up, not much more can be done. I was upgrading in that game(+1 armor/attack, can't remember which finished first), had a 2nd hatchery inbase and was teching up(got lair) and getting abilities(roach speed). Most I can think of is to make more hatcheries in my main. Also, why are you surprised that my Z is better than T/P? I've been putting most of my effort into Z since I started MP in end of Sept and only recently started using T/P so obviously there'll be a lot to iron out.

Either way, I give up trying to convince you otherwise. If you believe that my skill level is the same as when I started and hasn't improved much, then there isn't much I can do to convince you. Considering I'm the one playing the games and notice my improvements, I'm satisfied with my progress and doubt that will change any time soon. I'm still waiting to hear yks's response about the replay as well to what I messed up in that game, so, we'll see what he has to say.

Anyone who wants a game, I'll be in <1hr


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11756875*
> Yes, he was practicing because he was going to get back into it, personally, think it's a good idea before ladder reset on Jan 2. Maybe you didn't notice but I was on close positions on meta and expanding to a third too early without having some army would be a GG. I expanded when I had my 2 bases saturated and felt it was the right time. I don't expand just because I hit 75 supply or whatever.
> 
> Also, I had two almost fully saturated bases and was getting probably 1.5k minerals per minute. Other than laying down more structures, getting upgrades/abilities or teching up, not much more can be done. I was upgrading in that game(+1 armor/attack, can't remember which finished first), had a 2nd hatchery inbase and was teching up(got lair) and getting abilities(roach speed). Most I can think of is to make more hatcheries in my main. Also, why are you surprised that my Z is better than T/P? I've been putting most of my effort into Z since I started MP in end of Sept and only recently started using T/P so obviously there'll be a lot to iron out.
> 
> Either way, I give up trying to convince you otherwise. If you believe that my skill level is the same as when I started and hasn't improved much, then there isn't much I can do to convince you. Considering I'm the one playing the games and notice my improvements, I'm satisfied with my progress and doubt that will change any time soon. I'm still waiting to hear yks's response about the replay as well to what I messed up in that game, so, we'll see what he has to say.
> 
> Anyone who wants a game, I'll be in <1hr


Your post shows your lack of understanding of the reasons why you do things in this game. It doesn't matter if you have a sick income currently, and it doesn't matter if you are in close positions.

You should take a 3rd because you want every advantage you could get. Playing the just enough game isn't going to get you very far ... and especially your awful spending. You should have been on tons of bases, and you should have been maxed or way better upgraded at that point in the game *period*. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you give me some bull**** reason for your poor playing and you pat yourself on the back saying your still playing good... which is not true.

Fact is you played ****ty that game, and even if Thiru played worse that doesn't make your play any better.

If you want to talk about people who cannot be convinced its you bro. If you think that there was no good reason to take a 3rd or 4th in that game you are hopeless.


----------



## Katana

Is there a web interface to Battle.net? I'm home for the holidays and don't have access to the game.

BigFan, I think part of what DoomDash is saying is that it's generally considered good to keep yourself constantly on "just enough" minerals. Not many pros go over 1000 (though I do all the time, and I realize it's because I'm just a really slow-to-react player) The advantage of expanding everywhere would be that your opponent would have nowhere to go to feed his massive army, and would pretty soon have to go on the offensive on one of your bases (which, if you have lots of minerals, you could establish some defense at. One time as zerg, I eliminated the enemy's entire void ray army by just making a dozen spore launchers at the right place at the right time with all my spare drones)


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol I got BM'd in every second game I play today.

First I had to listen to 2 minutes of insults after going cannon contain>DT>Void rays against some zerg. Then some guy answered 'Die' to my gl hf and then a bunch of insults after my 4 gate. And now I've just heard that I play on ez mode with race that requires no skill after 1v2'ing two gold 6poolers with blink stalkers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11757399*
> Lol I got BM'd in every second game I play today.
> 
> First I had to listen to 2 minutes of insults after going cannon contain>DT>Void rays against some zerg. Then some guy answered 'Die' to my gl hf and then a bunch of insults after my 4 gate. And now I've just heard that I play on ez mode with race that requires no skill after 1v2'ing two gold 6poolers with blink stalkers.


Nice to know its not just the NA server







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11757109*
> Your post shows your lack of understanding of the reasons why you do things in this game. It doesn't matter if you have a sick income currently, and it doesn't matter if you are in close positions.
> 
> You should take a 3rd because you want every advantage you could get. Playing the just enough game isn't going to get you very far ... and especially your awful spending. You should have been on tons of bases, and you should have been maxed or way better upgraded at that point in the game *period*. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you give me some bull**** reason for your poor playing and you pat yourself on the back saying your still playing good... which is not true. Fact is you played ****ty that game, and even if Thiru played worse that doesn't make your play any better.
> 
> If you want to talk about people who cannot be convinced its you bro. If you think that there was no good reason to take a 3rd or 4th in that game you are hopeless.


You know, I wrote a long post about why I believe that taking an exp early can be a bad idea and how close spawning positions are bad for Z(surprised you don't know this), but, decided to erase everything and write the following small paragraph:

Having more exps is good for income but you need to consider defense and worker count among other things. You can go to town as much as you like about my spending and expanding, because, I've stated it a LOT that I don't spend well yet and expand on the later side for defense. It's nice to know that you ignore everything else that I did decently(droning, map control, timing push, etc....) and concentrate on two things that I've mentioned that I have issues with and I'm working on from previous posts.

Take what you want from it.

/end discussion
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11757384*
> Is there a web interface to Battle.net? I'm home for the holidays and don't have access to the game.
> 
> BigFan, I think part of what DoomDash is saying is that it's generally considered good to keep yourself constantly on "just enough" minerals. *Not many pros go over 1000* (though I do all the time, and I realize it's because I'm just a really slow-to-react player) The advantage of expanding everywhere would be that your opponent would have nowhere to go to feed his massive army, and would pretty soon have to go on the offensive on one of your bases (which, if you have lots of minerals, you could establish some defense at. One time as zerg, I eliminated the enemy's entire void ray army by just making a dozen spore launchers at the right place at the right time with all my spare drones)


Actually, not many pros go over 500 at any one point. My point is that I can't take several bases(4+) because I'll have to find some reasonable method to defend them since it'll be pointless to build a base and then lose all my workers, etc.... to a strong push. I'm thinking nydus for movement but haven't implemented that in any of my games yet, so, can't tell how feasible it is









Yes, you are correct that he'll have nowhere to feed his army but then with you having a lot of workers, his army > your army which means he can go exp by exp, take out your hatcheries, retreat, heal up, rinse and repeat. In the Clide vs. Leenock, first game on JB. Leenock kept expanding without much defense and clide kept on denying his exps throughout leading to the point where Clide took the first game. Point is, if you can't defend your exp, unless your opponent doesn't scout, it's as good as gone :/


----------



## thiru

The carrier's interceptors aren't stopped by the PDD because, IIRC, the shots are actually a laser that connects the interceptor to the target. So technically not a projectile.

And what game? I don't have a computer capable of running SC2 right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11757994*
> The carrier's interceptors aren't stopped by the PDD because, IIRC, the shots are actually a laser that connects the interceptor to the target. So technically not a projectile.
> 
> And what game? I don't have a computer capable of running SC2 right now.


Sorry for bringing you into this, didn't want to but that game was one of the more decent games I played(did everything that I needed to do other than spend/expand right). It's the game that we played a while back and Negative was spectating. We were in on close positions on meta and you attacked my third base(only hatchery) just as I attacked your exp and almost took down your nexus. Unfortunately, not sure how to describe it more


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11757992*
> You know, I wrote a long post about why I believe that taking an exp early can be a bad idea and how close spawning positions are bad for Z(surprised you don't know this), but, decided to erase everything and write the following small paragraph:
> 
> Having more exps is good for income but you need to consider defense and worker count among other things. You can go to town as much as you like about my spending and expanding, because, I've stated it a LOT that I don't spend well yet and expand on the later side for defense. It's nice to know that you ignore everything else that I did decently(droning, map control, timing push, etc....) and concentrate on two things that I've mentioned that I have issues with and I'm working on from previous posts.
> 
> Take what you want from it.
> 
> /end discussion
> 
> Actually, not many pros go over 500 at any one point. My point is that I can't take several bases(4+) because I'll have to find some reasonable method to defend them since it'll be pointless to build a base and then lose all my workers, etc.... to a strong push. I'm thinking nydus for movement but haven't implemented that in any of my games yet, so, can't tell how feasible it is


Why would I talk about anything you do right? Who cares... we are looking at what you are doing wrong so you get better... and theres a whole lot. That not enough units to protect expos is garbage because you'd have more than enough units if you just spent your money in the first place. This isn't a bank, you don't get interest.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11758020*
> Sorry for bringing you into this, didn't want to but that game was one of the more decent games I played(did everything that I needed to do other than spend/expand right). It's the game that we played a while back and Negative was spectating. We were in on close positions on meta and you attacked my third base(only hatchery) just as I attacked your exp and almost took down your nexus. Unfortunately, not sure how to describe it more


Ah the game where I lost all my probes, twice xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11758051*
> Why would I talk about anything you do right? Who cares... we are looking at *what you are doing wrong* so you get better... and theres a whole lot. That not enough units to protect expos is garbage because you'd have more than enough units if you just spent your money in the first place. This isn't a bank, you don't get interest.


Yes, but, you seem to forget that I've stated *multiple times* that I have issues with spending and getting a third exp up early in the game because I'm used to 2 basing a lot in the silver league, so, it's NOT something new. I ALREADY knew that I messed those up in the game. The whole point was to show that I've worked on my droning, making units, scouting, etc.... It's also unrealistic to think with the small amount of games that I'm currently playing that I can jump to having <500 resources and getting 4+ bases in any game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11758059*
> Ah the game where I lost all my probes, twice xD


lol, it could've been that game, can't remember what you exactly lost XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11758107*
> Yes, but, you seem to forget that I've stated *multiple times* that I have issues with spending and getting a third exp up early in the game because I'm used to 2 basing a lot in the silver league, so, it's NOT something new. I ALREADY knew that I messed those up in the game. The whole point was to show that I've worked on my droning, making units, scouting, etc.... It's also unrealistic to think with the small amount of games that I'm currently playing that I can jump to having <500 resources and getting 4+ bases in any game.
> 
> lol, it could've been that game, can't remember what you exactly lost XD


It's not unrealistic at all. It's something not hard even remotely. You just expand when you have a ton of money, and you build units when you have a ton of money. You even had map control and you didn't expand.

What's hard about that? I was doing that in beta on my first day playing.

When I was watching you play YKS when you played Terran I was pointing out your money was high. You said "I know" and didn't change a thing. Literally your barracks didn't build anything else for 5 minutes while you sat on 3k and 30 room for supply. How hard is it to build units?


----------



## Allenssmart

guys watch this replay, read description:

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=176070


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11758151*
> It's not unrealistic at all. It's something not hard even remotely. You just expand when you have a ton of money, and you build units when you have a ton of money. You even had map control and you didn't expand.
> 
> What's hard about that? I was doing that in beta on my first day playing.


I dislike expanding soo fast when I don't think I can provide the defense for it, it's just the way I roll. I just don't like losing structures, I guess, because, it feels like a loss even if I end up winning the game. If I believe that I can defend said exp decently for reinforcements to arrive, I'll expand all over the place, but, if not, then I'll wait for more units to help with defense than expand.

I could also go in any game now as well and just expand to the whole map if I had the money, but, to me, it comes down to the fact that there is too much to focus on when you have many expansions(although I'm sure I can handle it) and whatever army I have will be split until I make some more units, so, expanding recklessly isn't a good idea IMO









Can't recall what I was doing at the time when I had 3k minerals. I think I started laying some structures down(starports), albeit a bit later and started making thors or something as well as getting some upgrades for them and air units. I think I might have also started that 3rd exp as well, but, we know how that turned out







As for making units, I usually queue them and then forget to queue some more. When I play Z, I make, spawn larvae, then keep on making units or workers. Guessing issue is due to having one primary production structure(hatchery) compared to several for T/P which I haven't gotten used to yet.


----------



## poroboszcz

This is ******* hilarious.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11758720*
> This is ******* hilarious.


What is, the debate? All I'm trying to say is that I already know about the things he told me(spend, expand) and I'm working on it or are you talking about the losing structures part?


----------



## DoomDash

Started playing with out bonus pool... seems like you either go no where slow or just go down. I still think the MMR system is screwy, oh well I guess it doesn't matter.

TvP 2 rax FE is fun.

I thought of a way to make storm more balanced in TvP late game. Now, this is assuming T gets some sort of nerf in the process.. but something as minor as making storm doing less damage per second depending on the armor of the unit. So if you have +3 marauders it will be getting -4 damage off per second of storm than it normally would.

Thoughts? The only thing is that might screw storm up more against heavy armored units like ultras / bc's / carriers...

Thoughts?


----------



## Sainesk

do you still take damage if you move out of the original storm area?









just wondering because when I get stormed so far I've just been moving my units away from it...

do people ever try to drop a templar at your base and storm your workers?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11759229*
> do you still take damage if you move out of the original storm area?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just wondering because when I get stormed so far I've just been moving my units away from it...
> 
> do people try to drop a templar at your base and storm your workers ever?


No.
And yeah. Stormdrops are awesome.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11758911*
> Started playing with out bonus pool... seems like you either go no where slow or just go down. I still think the MMR system is screwy, oh well I guess it doesn't matter.
> 
> TvP 2 rax FE is fun.
> 
> I thought of a way to make storm more balanced in TvP late game. Now, this is assuming T gets some sort of nerf in the process.. but something as minor as making storm doing less damage per second depending on the armor of the unit. So if you have +3 marauders it will be getting -4 damage off per second of storm than it normally would.
> 
> Thoughts? *The only thing is that might screw storm up more against heavy armored units like ultras / bc's / carriers...*
> 
> Thoughts?


Pretty much answered your own question there. I doubt they'll change storm at all, more likely just buff gateways units, nerf marauders slightly or nerf P late game(colossi).

I just played the most deceptive opponent to date. TvsZ, he has me contained to my two bases. Since he was going MMM, I started getting colossi. Eventually, I steamed rolled his attack and attacked his main through the back rocks and his exp taking them both out. As I started dismantling his main, he gg's and starts talking about cnc3, how he plays it a lot and it isn't similar to sc2, has something like 100000 cash atm, etc.... so, I just listen and comment a bit as I continue taking down his bases and take another base of my own since both are mined out and really needed another.

I pause for a sec, do a couple of things then decide to attack his last exp(deciding on angle due to turrets and PF). All of a sudden, some thors+marines come from near the gold exp where my new nexus is and wipe everything out. Turns out he had another base, must've started building a lot of structures and units once he realized that his main and other exps were goners. He had 3-4 tanks in siege, some thors and marines. Lost my 3-4wounded colossi+whatever gateways units I had left. Thought I had enough firepower, turns out I didn't T_T Then he just moves those out of his base, makes mass marines and attack, end up gg right after and game froze









My fault for being too trusty that when someone gg's they mean it XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11759241*
> No.
> And yeah. Stormdrops are awesome.


They are, but, they must be done correctly, as in drop it when least expected and make sure they don't see it if possible otherwise chances are it'll be intercepted









Such a bad night tonight, gone 0/4 T_T Lost to proxy gates, got a disconnect, expanded on JB and lost against a 3gate even though I 3 gated myself and even though I thought I just won PvsT, my opponent gg'd to waste some time to recover :facepalm:


----------



## Dousand Thollars

Hey guys, So I've picked SC2 up a bit, I'm still sticking with my 50 practice games (down to 28-29) And I'm not fairing that well (Only won about 7-8 games :/ )

I've been watching Husky and Day9's channels. And I can't figure out how they move so fast (they move DAMN fast).

Obviously speed is a huge factor so I was wondering if you guys knew any helpful hotkeys to help a noob out


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dousand Thollars;11760868*
> And I can't figure out how they move so fast (they move DAMN fast).


Practice league is slower is why. Might be best to just forgo the whole thing since it only makes you slower really since you are more accustomed to that.


----------



## Dousand Thollars

I meant how fast they macro. I can't macro as fast as they can and now I know they're even faster than that -.-


----------



## Stance

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dousand Thollars*


I meant how fast they macro. I can't macro as fast as they can and now I know they're even faster than that -.-


I'm no different, watched a 2600 diamond friend play and could wonder nothing else but.. HOW?

His left-hand control is just far more developped than mine, yet all he'd tell me to do is practice. And I can't blame him, because the only key to getting better is time.


----------



## Dousand Thollars

So there's not super useful hotkey? No Ctrl+q = win?

All I've got so far is the Ctrl + #'s for hotkeying armies and F1 for idle workers.

Keyboard shortcuts annoy me because I just know it's going to take ages for me to learn them, I'm aware that I need to (or at least SHOULD) learn them. But in the heat of battle I can't exactly look and find out what they are.


----------



## Dousand Thollars

It all comes with practice I guess.


----------



## Mwarren

I would imagine that consistency is the key, as in sticking to the same hotkey setup, playing a lot, and developing good macro. Eventually using the hotkeys will become second nature and you will be able to macro like those diamond players without consciously thinking about it.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dousand Thollars*


So there's not super useful hotkey? No Ctrl+q = win?

All I've got so far is the Ctrl + #'s for hotkeying armies and F1 for idle workers.

Keyboard shortcuts annoy me because I just know it's going to take ages for me to learn them, I'm aware that I need to (or at least SHOULD) learn them. But in the heat of battle I can't exactly look and find out what they are.


 Takes a couple days at most to learn them. All you have to do is whenever you are going to go click a button, force yourself to hover over it, check the hotkey, move your mouse away and hit the key on the keyboard. You'll learn quickly enough that way.

Also, Shift+# adds to the control group. Middle mouse button lets you scroll around the map. Backspace bounces around expoes.


----------



## Katana

No one's expected to naturally use hotkeys with 100 zerglings bearing down on you. But in the calm of base-building, for any actions you do frequently (ie, build worker) look it up.

I didn't know about the backspace hotkey though; that's useful.

ALSO: If your "advisor" just alerted you to something, such as your troops being attacked, you can center on it right away by pressing spacebar.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Takes a couple days at most to learn them. All you have to do is whenever you are going to go click a button, force yourself to hover over it, check the hotkey, move your mouse away and hit the key on the keyboard. You'll learn quickly enough that way.


^This.

Also try to focus at one thing at a time. Play 20 games against very easy AI and make it your main goal in the game to use only hotkeys whenever you can. Don't try to win, just build a lot of stuff and produce units using only hotkeys. Even if you won't remember all of them straight away you'll still benefit learning the most used ones.

The most important hotkey to learn first is your workers production, so assign your command center/nexus/hatchery to e.g. 4 and then learn to hit 4s/e/sd regularly.


----------



## Katana

Isn't there one practice mission where they disallow the use of mouse clicks, and want you to only use hotkeys?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Isn't there one practice mission where they disallow the use of mouse clicks, and want you to only use hotkeys?


yeah, with protoss, harbinger of death challenge


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Pretty much answered your own question there. I doubt they'll change storm at all, more likely just buff gateways units, nerf marauders slightly or nerf P late game(colossi).


Blizzard already said a storm adjustment was probably coming. So they are nerfing it we just don't know how.


----------



## poroboszcz

Merry Christmas to all of you! Wish you ggs, no cheese, smooth BO's and all the success on the ladder.


----------



## DoomDash

Merry Christmas







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Blizzard already said a storm adjustment was probably coming. So they are nerfing it we just don't know how.


I see, never mind









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Merry Christmas to all of you! Wish you ggs, no cheese, smooth BO's and all the success on the ladder.










and to you too.

Just woke up now :/ Had the craziest night in a while. 7 games total, went 1/4 on the ladder, losing anywhere from disconnects to deception, lol and winning my final game as Z. I think those games didn't compare much to my last 2 though. Played 2 games, one against a diamond T and another a plat Z(he was playing T). A lot of fun but really draining as well.

I ended up getting a disconnect against the diamond T right after I just demolished his main and one of his exps(2 more to go). Would've loved to see the conclusion because there were still expos around the map, at least 4 that I can think of that I could've controlled to bloster my forces. It was funny to try and manage 5 bases though, mostly the skipping back and forth as well as having units I made just standing there







because I only had 3 hatcheries in my control group, forgot to add other two. I do have ask doom, your friend seems to have played >2000 1vs1 games asides from being in diamond, was he actually playing to win last night? I assumed that he was going to make stronger pushes.

As for the other PvsT, was on LT, took about an 1hr and 20 min of play, constant back and forth. Having 12 wrapgates with eco to support is awesome though, crazy fast reinforcements. Wrap Prisms+dts were awesome in the match as well. Took out half his base by wrapping them in. Should've went carriers, since I had the income for it. Would've been interesting to see his reaction to mothership+carriers against his marines+tanks army. I'll try to post these replays up, definitely interesting to watch


----------



## DoomDash

That Terran player wasn't a friend of mine, he was a friend of Korea's. Also that Terran is horrible... I don't know how he made it into Diamond... oh wait I do he played 2000+ games to get there. But when I watched him play NorthKorea before you I was just face palming his Terran was so bad.

He has no macro ( like other people I know not just you it seems ), and more importantly he doesn't really know what to even make. The game he played vs u and NorthKorea he was banking just as much money as you bank every game.

If you want you should watch my version of the replay of you and him because I provide my commentary criticizing both of you







. NorthKorea as well. You can see it as a play by play







.

*Edit nevermind apparently you don't see spectator text.. oh well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That Terran player wasn't a friend of mine, he was a friend of Korea's. Also that Terran is horrible... I don't know how he made it into Diamond... oh wait I do he played 2000+ games to get there. But when I watched him play NorthKorea before you I was just face palming his Terran was so bad.

He has no macro ( like other people I know not just you it seems ), and more importantly he doesn't really know what to even make. The game he played vs u and NorthKorea he was banking just as much money as you bank every game.

If you want you should watch my version of the replay of you and him because I provide my commentary criticizing both of you







. NorthKorea as well. You can see it as a play by play







.

*Edit* nevermind apparently you don't see spectator text.. oh well.*


Well, he still made it, has about 2k points and is still in diamond, must be doing something right. Surprised at the no macro thing though. Haven't watched the replay to see what he was banking, etc.... I had a lots of minerals and gas as well until I brought out those 7 ultra or so and keep making slings to throw at him XD My guess is TvsZ isn't his best matchup, considering you said your win rate is only 25% as well and you are supposed to be a better player. 
Oh well, I'm sure it would've been an ear full XD

Seeing you against northkorea, kinda surprised he detonated his banes on your tanks instead of MM because there weren't many casualties :/


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11761408*
> No one's expected to naturally use hotkeys with 100 zerglings bearing down on you. But in the calm of base-building, for any actions you do frequently (ie, build worker) look it up.


You kinda are though. That's the point of hotkeys, doing stuff faster. Can't lay down 10 forcefields in time if you don't use hotkeys, and you can't macro during a battle without them either.


----------



## Allenssmart

guys how do u spectate in sc2?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11764155*
> guys how do u spectate in sc2?


Create a game, invite your opponent and put him in the right team, invite the spectators and right click on one of them and change into spectator. Then the spectator "team" will appear and you can drag whoever you want into it.


----------



## ThumperSD

I just noticed Inferno is 2700


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11764155*
> guys how do u spectate in sc2?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11764208*
> Create a game, invite your opponent and put him in the right team, invite the spectators and right click on one of them and change into spectator. Then the spectator "team" will appear and you can drag whoever you want into it.


Pretty much. If you invite others to a party and have 4, then you can create a game with a 4 player map and move two to the spectator area, although, that's only if it's a 4+ player map and only 4 players









^^Maybe he's grinding because of the ladder reset on Jan 2


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11764068*
> You kinda are though. That's the point of hotkeys, doing stuff faster. Can't lay down 10 forcefields in time if you don't use hotkeys, and you can't macro during a battle without them either.


Well, you're right about that; by "naturally" I was referring to the situation of a new player, in which he's not expected to immediately know the right hotkeys in the middle of combat, but should be getting used to them beforehand. Then someday they'll come to the front of his mind right away when enemies attack.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11764251*
> Well, you're right about that; by "naturally" I was referring to the situation of a new player, in which he's not expected to immediately know the right hotkeys in the middle of combat, but should be getting used to them beforehand. Then someday they'll come to the front of his mind right away when enemies attack.


How are you going to learn combat spells/abilities hotkeys if you don't use them in battle?


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11764245*
> Pretty much. If you invite others to a party and have 4, then you can create a game with a 4 player map and move two to the spectator area, although, that's only if it's a 4+ player map and only 4 players
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Maybe he's grinding because of the ladder reset on Jan 2


They are for sure resetting the ladder at that time??


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11763524*
> Well, he still made it, has about 2k points and is still in diamond, must be doing something right. Surprised at the no macro thing though. Haven't watched the replay to see what he was banking, etc.... I had a lots of minerals and gas as well until I brought out those 7 ultra or so and keep making slings to throw at him XD My guess is TvsZ isn't his best matchup, considering you said your win rate is only 25% as well and you are supposed to be a better player.
> Oh well, I'm sure it would've been an ear full XD
> 
> Seeing you against northkorea, kinda surprised he detonated his banes on your tanks instead of MM because there weren't many casualties :/


If you play a lot no matter what your points will go up. He's obviously just done that. He is not a Diamond level player in any way shape or form. I'm telling you he is awful. He is probably gold at best IMO. Though low level Diamond players do suck, still North Korea I don't even think should be Diamond worthy and he beat him as well. Or if he is some how Diamond level they need better standards lol! I guess that's why I'll be shooting for Master league.


----------



## thiru

If you play a lot but aren't skilled, points go up but not your league.

He must gotten to diamond with cheese or something


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11765740*
> If you play a lot but aren't skilled, points go up but not your league.
> 
> He must gotten to diamond with cheese or something


I don't know man lol. Ask BigFan to upload the replay and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.


----------



## DoomDash

I was just looking at lessons with qxc for fun, wow $50 an hour unless you buy more hours. Ouch







.

http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc

He also has a stream I'll have to watch.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8B8-l8OI1c&feature=sub[/ame]


----------



## Mwarren

Anyone up for some practice games?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11765740*
> If you play a lot but aren't skilled, *points go up but not your league*.
> 
> He must gotten to diamond with cheese or something


My thoughts alike, however, he didn't give me as much trouble as I thought. I mean he harassed my OLs, but, I just made some more since I had 4 hatcheries full of larvae. He dropped vikings into my mineral line, queen+slings took care of them. Tried to banshee harass, got an overseer with mutas. Tried an early MM push, used my drones+slings to surround and survive,etc.... I'll post the replay for sure, rig getting cleaned atm









Well, I just took the plunge. Been wanting to upgrade for a while. Went for a GTX570+antec 650W psu, hoping that sc2 replays and other games will be much smoother. Should probably oc my cpu to prevent bottlenecking


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats on the 570 it's a beast







.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11766411*
> My thoughts alike, however, he didn't give me as much trouble as I thought. I mean he harassed my OLs, but, I just made some more since I had 4 hatcheries full of larvae. He dropped vikings into my mineral line, queen+slings took care of them. Tried to banshee harass, got an overseer with mutas. Tried an early MM push, used my drones+slings to surround and survive,etc.... I'll post the replay for sure, rig getting cleaned atm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I just took the plunge. Been wanting to upgrade for a while. Went for a GTX570+antec 650W psu, hoping that sc2 replays and other games will be much smoother. Should probably oc my cpu to prevent bottlenecking


Hmmm, seems kind of silly to have such a wide spread unti comp. against zerg. Zergs amazing at getting tech. I've been winning atleast 75% of my TvZ's so far. My best MU by far, do you have a lot of T's that 2 rax you?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11766480*
> Hmmm, seems kind of silly to have such a wide spread unti comp. against zerg. Zergs amazing at getting tech. I've been winning atleast 75% of my TvZ's so far. My best MU by far, do you have a lot of T's that 2 rax you?


Get to high Diamond and your win % vs Zerg will be 25% hah. I practice this match up like 10 times a day and still get wrecked.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11766502*
> Get to high Diamond and your win % vs Zerg will be 25% hah. I practice this match up like 10 times a day and still get wrecked.


QFT.

You'll have nightmares about ******* mutas


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11766502*
> Get to high Diamond and your win % vs Zerg will be 25% hah. I practice this match up like 10 times a day and still get wrecked.


Whats your unit comp like? I've been having a lot of success using the SK build. Basically 4 rax off of 2 bases pumping marines, 2 engi bays for max upgrades, siege tanks, and ravens. I thought you were mid diamond?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11766435*
> Congrats on the 570 it's a beast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thanks, hoping that once I get my Q6600 cleaned a bit(rig was off for a while), ocing back to 3Ghz will solve many of the bottlenecking issues that I might get









^^In silver, nope, never a single one but that's likely since they don't know about it. Either way, I doubt they have the micro to pull it off as in focus fire, move back, rinse and repeat







I CRUSH any T/P opponents when I'm Z, but, I get somewhat crushed when I'm T/P







I agree with doom, if you master Z, you can *seriously* be unstoppable. Last night, once I took out most of his army, I just rallied my slings units from my 4-5 hatcheries right into his main. My slings+ultras torn it up like no tommorrow. Would've loved to finish the game instead of a disconnect


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11766527*
> Whats your unit comp like? I've been having a lot of success using the SK build. Basically 4 rax off of 2 bases pumping marines, 2 engi bays for max upgrades, siege tanks, and ravens. I thought you were mid diamond?


Well high-mid, who knows. 2200 Diamond. Not high compared to the top pros obviously.

I do a 2 rax FE tank thor build. I beat most Zergs I practice with at least 95%, even my 2400 Diamond Zerg... but none of them play super macro Zerg which is a nightmare for Terran.

You should see how you do agianst vdek's Zerg, or MasterLaw my other friend from a different forum. I'd be interested to see because I rarely lose to them. I'd like to see how you stack up.


----------



## Sainesk

is there somewhere you can look up fastest build orders to get to a specific unit?

I want to know if 10 pool, or something else is the fastest time you can get out mutas etc.? (mainly for against ai, I know in league games I can't get away with not making any combat units for that long...)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11766755*
> is there somewhere you can look up fastest build orders to get to a specific unit?
> 
> I want to know if 10 pool, or something else is the fastest time you can get out mutas etc.? (mainly for against ai, I know in league games I can't get away with not making any combat units for that long...)


I think maybe something unit tester, but, forgot the name, maybe order builder


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11766567*
> 
> You should see how you do agianst vdek's Zerg, or MasterLaw my other friend from a different forum. I'd be interested to see because I rarely lose to them. I'd like to see how you stack up.


Don't be so cocky, I'm still working on my zerg


----------



## Mwarren

I'm up for a game if you are vdek







. Almost lost to a 1200 zerg on the ladder, 2 raxed contained him. Then he switched to roaches and massed them a long with speedlings and my scvs didnt make it to repair my bunker in time and luckily i caught his roaches in the middle of my choke and I wiped them, got 2 double ebays + upgrades and it was GG from there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11767046*
> Don't be so cocky, I'm still working on my zerg


How was I being cocky? I just stated a fact







. I didn't say anything bad about your Zerg in fact I think you have potential







.

Post the replays of u 2.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11765813*
> I was just looking at lessons with qxc for fun, wow $50 an hour unless you buy more hours. Ouch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc
> 
> He also has a stream I'll have to watch.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8B8-l8OI1c&feature=sub


I watched the linked game and it only strengthened my belief that zerg is way underpowered against protoss in long macro type games. Protoss dude romped and he could have dominated even more if he had gotten a few more immortals out. That zerg player was really good, far better than I'll ever be most likely. Didn't really make a difference. Only big thing I think zerg could have done differently was using speedlings. He could have done periodic sling runbys and forced the P player to respect that threat and keep some units back. But zerg kept getting low on minerals despite having lots of drones so I'm not sure the speedlings would have been a big help. When good P players get fully teched and have 3 or more bases it's usually already a hopeless situation for Z.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11767905*
> I watched the linked game and it only strengthened my belief that zerg is way underpowered against protoss in long macro type games. Protoss dude romped and he could have dominated even more if he had gotten a few more immortals out. That zerg player was really good, far better than I'll ever be most likely. Didn't really make a difference. Only big thing I think zerg could have done differently was using speedlings. He could have done periodic sling runbys and forced the P player to respect that threat and keep some units back. But zerg kept getting low on minerals despite having lots of drones so I'm not sure the speedlings would have been a big help. When good P players get fully teched and have 3 or more bases it's usually already a hopeless situation for Z.


I think that Zerg player could have played much better. Z and P are even late IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11767046*
> Don't be so cocky, I'm still working on my zerg


You show him vdek!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11768264*
> I think that Zerg player could have played much better. Z and P are even late IMO.


I don't know. While I agree that early on, a good Z player can dominate, I think P late game is crazy hard to stop. Colossi+zealots can win out ground. VRs can easily take out BLs/ultras and help against mutas(obviously phenoix is a better idea but idea is to add several VRs into mix). I mean example is roach/hydra composition, great but if you go chargelots+colossi, you can melt it rather fast especially 3-4 colossi which aren't hard to produce even from a single chronoboosted robobay(game last night against north, I just queue them up, cb whenever I could and was able to defend any pushes)







Obviously, I'm not the best representative from Z or P(you can say that again







), but, just a point


----------



## Allenssmart

guys is there a way to play sc2 offline? i'm going down to the states tomorrow and its gonna b a 9 hour trip in the car. i want to play sc2 offline against ai or just the campaign. is there a way?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11768362*
> guys is there a way to play sc2 offline? i'm going down to the states tomorrow and its gonna b a 9 hour trip in the car. i want to play sc2 offline against ai or just the campaign. is there a way?


You can play it offline. You can't get achievements though. My advice would be to use one of the guests account or if you want to use your main one, try logging in and clicking play offline once it gives that connection problem message. It should work, try it first though, as in unplug your internet, go into sc2, log in and click play offline


----------



## Rayzer

Anyone up for a game?

800 Diamond Terran, haven't really laddered in about 2 weeks.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11768381*
> You can play it offline. You can't get achievements though. My advice would be to use one of the guests account or if you want to use your main one, try logging in and clicking play offline once it gives that connection problem message. It should work, try it first though, as in unplug your internet, go into sc2, log in and click play offline


thanks. i just clicked play as guest and it worked with my internet connection unplugged. merry Christmas + rep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayzer;11768427*
> Anyone up for a game?
> 
> 800 Diamond Terran, haven't really laddered in about 2 weeks.


Heading to bed and only silver atm, but, I would go around and add people on here. Chances are you might find someone online atm








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11768443*
> thanks. i just clicked play as guest and it worked with my internet connection unplugged. merry Christmas + rep


np, u too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayzer;11768427*
> Anyone up for a game?
> 
> 800 Diamond Terran, haven't really laddered in about 2 weeks.


Terran pride







. Don't listen to all the Protoss players and Z players on here they are traitors to the human race







.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11769380*
> Terran pride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Don't listen to all the Protoss players and Z players on here they are traitors to the human race
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Humans suck, unless they've been infested. Then they're okay. I have no use for the rest.


----------



## Sainesk

I only play terran for the vikings, and I pretend they're just transformers instead of being driven by humans


----------



## Balsagna

Man, this thread makes me sad. I need to get to SC2 installed again. I was in beta and played all the freaking time. I ended up getting burnt out when the game released. Haven't even beat the game yet.

I was playing Zerg almost exclusively and was in top 20 in Diamond/Platinum (before it was Diamond)

Then they made some changes before release that I didn't like for Zerg. I feel Zerg is a little underpowered unless you're actually pro. Like the MMM ball - In beta it was SOOOO easy to mass the MMM ball and as a Zerg player, you had much more trouble getting rid of it than it was for Terran massing it. It was just a very very effective combo

If I ever felt I was having a losing streak, I'd switch to Terran for a couple games to roll on easy mode.

Is it like that now? No idea.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm going to try a new style in TvZ, but almost the same as my current style....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Balsagna*


Man, this thread makes me sad. I need to get to SC2 installed again. I was in beta and played all the freaking time. I ended up getting burnt out when the game released. Haven't even beat the game yet.

I was playing Zerg almost exclusively and was in top 20 in Diamond/Platinum (before it was Diamond)

Then they made some changes before release that I didn't like for Zerg. I feel Zerg is a little underpowered unless you're actually pro. Like the MMM ball - In beta it was SOOOO easy to mass the MMM ball and as a Zerg player, you had much more trouble getting rid of it than it was for Terran massing it. It was just a very very effective combo

If I ever felt I was having a losing streak, I'd switch to Terran for a couple games to roll on easy mode.

Is it like that now? No idea.


Now it's like the opposite and if you see MMM you get a free win as Zerg. Terran has been nerfed a ton since then... Hellions can no longer kite roach, reapers can no longer get speed till factory tech, tanks no longer do 50 to light ( 35 ), BC's damage reduction to ground, tons of upgrade scaling reduced ect, roachs got a range buff, Zerg building HP buffs all around, ect ect.

Right now its Zerg heaven. **** if you are a good player ZvT will probably be your favorite match up. Most Protoss players and Terran players will tell you how much of a pain Zerg is right now. In Korea Zerg is dominating by a landslide in Diamond ladder too.

So come back and play.

Though I'd be willing to give you a nice warm new Terran style welcome party.

PS: What happened it beta probably wasn't even remotely accurate anyway... everyone was terrible / didn't understand the game as much as they do now. People just played it all wrong.


----------



## yks

5:45 in the morning, and I am waiting for all the kids to wake up.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Unless you're a Zerg player. Or named BigFan.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11770041*
> Now it's like the opposite and if you see MMM you get a free win as Zerg. Terran has been nerfed a ton since then... Hellions can no longer kite roach, reapers can no longer get speed till factory tech, tanks no longer do 50 to light ( 35 ), BC's damage reduction to ground, tons of upgrade scaling reduced ect, roachs got a range buff, Zerg building HP buffs all around, ect ect.
> 
> Right now its Zerg heaven. **** if you are a good player ZvT will probably be your favorite match up. Most Protoss players and Terran players will tell you how much of a pain Zerg is right now. In Korea Zerg is dominating by a landslide in Diamond ladder too.
> 
> So come back and play.
> 
> Though I'd be willing to give you a nice warm new Terran style welcome party.
> 
> PS: What happened it beta probably wasn't even remotely accurate anyway... everyone was terrible / didn't understand the game as much as they do now. People just played it all wrong.


Nice avatar.

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11770041*
> Now it's like the opposite and if you see MMM you get a free win as Zerg. Terran has been nerfed a ton since then... Hellions can no longer kite roach, reapers can no longer get speed till factory tech, tanks no longer do 50 to light ( 35 ), BC's damage reduction to ground, tons of upgrade scaling reduced ect, roachs got a range buff, Zerg building HP buffs all around, ect ect.
> 
> Right now its Zerg heaven. **** if you are a good player ZvT will probably be your favorite match up. Most Protoss players and Terran players will tell you how much of a pain Zerg is right now. In Korea Zerg is dominating by a landslide in Diamond ladder too.
> 
> So come back and play.
> 
> Though I'd be willing to give you a nice warm new Terran style welcome party.
> 
> PS: What happened it beta probably wasn't even remotely accurate anyway... everyone was terrible / didn't understand the game as much as they do now. People just played it all wrong.


Idk about that, MMM still rapes TvZ. Have you ever tried out that SK build? It's basically nothing but marines, ravens, tanks or thors and getting fast upgrades off of double ebays. It RAPES. You're trading mineral only units for gas units and basically trying to suck the zerg try for gas while you use your gas for upgrades. 3/3 marines literally crap on just about anything when you have enough of them pumping out constantly, banes, roaches, mutas, actually pretty much every zerg unit.

Anyways, happy xmas everyone. Finally got a new build to set up, going from a 1.8ghz single core to a 3.0ghz dual core AM3 and 4gigs of DDR3.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That seem to be the go to build these days in pro level TvZ, but even then most have a hard time with either muta bane or some other combo with roach. Every time I see those banes rolling I feel sorry for T's.


----------



## TheCondor13

Zerg run show. I'm a high rank platinum who started as rank 70 bronze and went thru ALL the rankings and I'll tell you. Zerg at low levels SUCK! They dont' understand drone timing at all and that's the problem. I feel bad for the balance testers (keep up the good work David Kim aka dayvie) cause if they balance for low levels then pros take advantage of the buff or nerf...but if they balance for high levels then at low levels NOBODY can survive ahah. i find it funny, but blizzard is diong an AWESOME job of staying on top of these changes.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheCondor13*


Zerg run show. I'm a high rank platinum who started as rank 70 bronze and went thru ALL the rankings and I'll tell you. Zerg at low levels SUCK! They dont' understand drone timing at all and that's the problem. I feel bad for the balance testers (keep up the good work David Kim aka dayvie) cause if they balance for low levels then pros take advantage of the buff or nerf...but if they balance for high levels then at low levels NOBODY can survive ahah. i find it funny, but blizzard is diong an AWESOME job of staying on top of these changes.


There's no need to balance lower leagues since anything in those leagues can be defeated through macro with proper scouting. Blizzard balances at the pro level and actually speaks to pro players (or high ranking players in ladder of course).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheCondor13;11772440*
> , but blizzard is diong an AWESOME job of staying on top of these changes.


They [blizzard] are?


----------



## Katana

That seems normal. A barracks is just about my tenth structure when I'm playing as Zerg.

.....wait, what?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11774028*
> That seems normal. A barracks is just about my tenth structure when I'm playing as Zerg.


infestors stealing enemy workers ftw









doubt that would work in pro matches though, it's hard enough maxing/teching up 1 army...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Funny, since that's from makaprime vs oGsthewind.


----------



## KingGreasy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11774116*
> infestors stealing enemy workers ftw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> doubt that would work in pro matches though, it's hard enough maxing/teching up 1 army...


@5:45
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28RCXa0yIs&feature=feedu[/ame]

Those players are pretty pro in my opinion.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11769380*
> Terran pride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Don't listen to all the Protoss players and Z players on here they are traitors to the human race
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


human race? what is that? Is it some type of biological organism?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11769566*
> Humans suck, unless they've been *infested*. Then they're okay. I have no use for the rest.










That is indeed true my fellow Zerg








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11770647*
> 5:45 in the morning, and I am waiting for all the kids to wake up.
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone!
> 
> Unless you're a Zerg player. Or named *BigFan*.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11771227*
> Idk about that, MMM still rapes TvZ. Have you ever tried out that SK build? It's basically nothing but marines, ravens, tanks or thors and getting fast upgrades off of double ebays. It RAPES. You're trading mineral only units for gas units and basically trying to suck the zerg try for gas while you use your gas for upgrades. 3/3 marines literally crap on just about anything when you have enough of them pumping out constantly, banes, roaches, mutas, actually pretty much every zerg unit.
> 
> Anyways, happy xmas everyone. Finally got a new build to set up, going from a 1.8ghz single core to a 3.0ghz dual core AM3 and 4gigs of DDR3.


Congrats on the new build, should be a keeper







As to mass marines, I see your point. I think it's very powerful as well especially with upgrades, stim and large numbers








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11774116*
> infestors stealing enemy workers ftw


Indeed an infestor's work








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11774254*
> Funny, since that's from makaprime vs oGsthewind.


hmm, interesting, linky?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KingGreasy;11774372*
> @5:45
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28RCXa0yIs&feature=feedu
> 
> Those players are pretty pro in my opinion.


That was a ******ed game IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11771227*
> Idk about that, MMM still rapes TvZ. Have you ever tried out that SK build? It's basically nothing but marines, ravens, tanks or thors and getting fast upgrades off of double ebays. It RAPES. You're trading mineral only units for gas units and basically trying to suck the zerg try for gas while you use your gas for upgrades. 3/3 marines literally crap on just about anything when you have enough of them pumping out constantly, banes, roaches, mutas, actually pretty much every zerg unit.
> 
> Anyways, happy xmas everyone. Finally got a new build to set up, going from a 1.8ghz single core to a 3.0ghz dual core AM3 and 4gigs of DDR3.


Let's see you try it vs some sick Zergs and see how you feel. Pure MMM even with Ravens will get raped by a good Z. Banes, Infestors, slings... so good. Aren't you plat? There is a huge difference between play and high Diamond Zergs, HUGE. Most Zergs in high Platinum still don't even remotely how to play Zerg ( cough NorthKorea ), and they play cute / fancy.

You NEED tanks / Thors. But you did mention tanks and thors... so yes I do that build. Still it's damn near impossibly hard where I'm @ in Ladder. I win TvZ 25% probably in ladder and I consider myself a very solid TvZ player.

Have you tried playing vdek yet? Also got another for you to play.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11775227*
> That was a ******ed game IMO.


For sure they weren't playing serious.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11775389*
> Let's see you try it vs some sick Zergs and see how you feel. Pure MMM even with Ravens will get raped by a good Z. Banes, Infestors, slings... so good. Aren't you plat? There is a huge difference between play and high Diamond Zergs, HUGE. Most Zergs in high Platinum still don't even remotely how to play Zerg ( cough NorthKorea ), and they play cute / fancy.
> 
> You NEED tanks / Thors. But you did mention tanks and thors... so yes I do that build. Still it's damn near impossibly hard where I'm @ in Ladder. I win TvZ 25% probably in ladder and I consider myself a very solid TvZ player.


Does North really play that badly? Curious, what kind of cute/fancy plays does he try because in your game against him, there wasn't any of that. It also was a good idea to lay down those crawlers, although, I also lay down 2 in exp and 1 in base incase of early harass. Curious to this new TvsZ strat you have. I'll be on later tonight, care for some practice? I also know your current strat so it won't work as easily


----------



## Mwarren

Just got the new computer set up, feels MUCH faster than my old 1.8ghz single core. Hopefully I can finally play SC2 while listening to music LOL.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11775550*
> Just got the new computer set up, feels MUCH faster than my old 1.8ghz single core. Hopefully I can finally play SC2 while listening to music LOL.


I dunno, I mean, true a dual core is no slouch, lol, but, with sc2, higher clocks means better fps, so, listening to music would use technically slow down the game. If you had a tri+, then you could probably set affinity of music player to the last so that sc2 runs on the first two cores(you can set affinity or leave it)


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11775569*
> I dunno, I mean, true a dual core is no slouch, lol, but, with sc2, higher clocks means better fps, so, listening to music would use technically slow down the game. If you had a tri+, then you could probably set affinity of music player to the last so that sc2 runs on the first two cores(you can set affinity or leave it)


Listening to music shouldn't use a full 3GHz core though. Maybe an eighth of a core at most.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11775550*
> Just got the new computer set up, feels MUCH faster than my old 1.8ghz single core. Hopefully I can finally play SC2 while listening to music LOL.


I got my friend a 4650 for when SCII came out, it runs the game reasonably well at medium settings.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11775594*
> I got my friend a 4650 for when SCII came out, it runs the game reasonably well at medium settings.


For sure, I've had this card for a little over a year now. It's definitely a good card but I was severely bottle necked by my processor. Raising the video settings would still net me the same fps no matter what games that I played. Tell tale sign of a cpu bottleneck there.
Edit: I'm surprised at how far that onboard sound has come. The onboard on this motherboard blows away my Audigy 2zs.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11775618*
> For sure, I've had this card for a little over a year now. It's definitely a good card but I was severely bottle necked by my processor. Raising the video settings would still net me the same fps no matter what games that I played. Tell tale sign of a cpu bottleneck there.


Yah, my friends running on a 1.8ghz core2duo I believe. It gets very laggy during intense games...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11775630*
> Yah, my friends running on a 1.8ghz core2duo I believe. It gets very laggy during intense games...


You should OC it for him. Mines was so bad that my game would freeze for 3-5 seconds when a new texture would load up. (when putting down a barracks or any other structure.)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11775433*
> Does North really play that badly? Curious, what kind of cute/fancy plays does he try because in your game against him, there wasn't any of that. It also was a good idea to lay down those crawlers, although, I also lay down 2 in exp and 1 in base incase of early harass. Curious to this new TvsZ strat you have. I'll be on later tonight, care for some practice? I also know your current strat so it won't work as easily


North, Law, Vdek.. they all know exactly what I'm doing but knowing doesn't really change much.

North's spending is horrible that's what he does wrong ( spending and lack of drones ). He also only can survive bunker rushes 50%.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11775721*
> North, Law, Vdek.. they all know exactly what I'm doing but knowing doesn't really change much.
> 
> North's spending is horrible that's what he does wrong ( spending and *lack of drones* ). He also only can survive bunker rushes 50%.


Here's a question for you, pretty easy: Has any of them trying go for pool first and get crawlers almost right away? Doubt that's happened, from what I've seen, they go for exp, then pool and lay down crawlers rather late(based on North's last game against you). I see, so he also isn't a strong macro player, interesting that plat and diamond Zs still aren't macroing hard with Z. As for bunker rushes, well, tbh, to me, that just sounds too cheesy. Marine attacks are one thing but putting a bunker near an enemy base before the first marine is even out or just as he exits sounds like cheese to me


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11775869*
> Here's a question for you, pretty easy: Has any of them trying go for pool first and get crawlers almost right away? Doubt that's happened, from what I've seen, they go for exp, then pool and lay down crawlers rather late(based on North's last game against you). I see, so he also isn't a strong macro player, interesting that plat and diamond Zs still aren't macroing hard with Z. As for bunker rushes, well, tbh, to me, that just sounds too cheesy. Marine attacks are one thing but putting a bunker near an enemy base before the first marine is even out or just as he exits sounds like cheese to me


I've done it against him. I can hold off his 2rax aggression pretty well most of the time, I'm just not macroing right after wards.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11775869*
> Here's a question for you, pretty easy: Has any of them trying go for pool first and get crawlers almost right away? Doubt that's happened, from what I've seen, they go for exp, then pool and lay down crawlers rather late(based on North's last game against you). I see, so he also isn't a strong macro player, interesting that plat and diamond Zs still aren't macroing hard with Z. As for bunker rushes, well, tbh, to me, that just sounds too cheesy. Marine attacks are one thing but putting a bunker near an enemy base before the first marine is even out or just as he exits sounds like cheese to me


The cheese part depends, if its against Z than I'd have to say that laying down a bunker at the zergs natural is almost standard play unless you're okay with letting the zerg have a huge eco advantage early on.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11775901*
> I've done it against him. I can hold off his 2rax aggression pretty well most of the time, I'm just *not macroing right after wards*.


You know, I had that exact same issue with my gameplay. I used to get exp right away(15 exp 14 pool), make 2 extractors to get gas from my exp(3 drones/gas) and would stop droning right then and there creating an army instead. Used to have something like 22 drones for 2 bases







I've since decided to just keep a sling outside my opponent's base, lay down 2 spine crawlers in my exp and one in main ASAP incase of early harass(2 rax push^^) and then drone up.

Once I hit let's say 10 for minerals at in exp, I'll start slowly making an army as I continue droning, maybe 60-70% drone, 30-40% army. By the time, my opponent is ready to attack, I would've saturated my main and exp and have a decent army. When he moves out, I just queue up another 12 units or so and by the time he hits my base, my army is ready. If I feel like I don't have enough units to stop his attack, I'll gather my drones at exp, move them in first followed by my army. Don't really care if I lose them, I can be back up and saturated in no time and this would leave most of my army intact









Of course, macroing is more than *making drones*, but, that was pretty much the purpose of posting that game replay, to show that I've worked on it since I last played doom, too bad he didn't notice


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11775919*
> The cheese part depends, if its against Z than I'd have to say that laying down a bunker at the zergs natural is almost standard play unless you're okay with letting the zerg *have a huge eco advantage early on.*


See, that's the problem. I mean, what is considered cheese? Some people would say doing a cannon contain on a Z is cheesy. Do I think it is although I hate it when it happens, not really, it's just a strat. Do I think the bunker idea is cheesy? Yes, not sure the reason, it just seems like it, although, it's still a strat like the cannon contain. I've lost track of what is considered cheesy in the game and thus I don't do any of it. I could try a cannon contain or a bunker in the mineral line of a Z but if I win, I would feel as if I didn't play the game correctly








Zerg won't have a huge eco early on, if you pressure them to make units. Most Zs don't lay down spine crawlers in their exp and those who are macro heavy will just drone up. If you were to engage using 2 rax, you could do some serious damage provided you continue making workers back at your base, do some serious micro because you'll likely be facing a lot of zlings when you attack(makes them as you approach his base) and plan for an exp to be on par with bases, meaning having an eco advantage


----------



## Mwarren

Well to be honest my definition and most SC players definition of cheesy is something that *ends* the game fast and that when scouted can be stopped. Putting down a bunker at the zergs natural isn't considered cheese because it isn't meant to end the game, its just to try to prevent the zerg from getting an eco advantage.

The problem with letting the zerg have an early expo is that its very easy for them to defend it early on with spines and speedlings while getting muta tech/bane tech, and getting that third. For TvZ marines aren't going to be able to do much against spines and speedlings until stim is researched which takes a while and you're also going to want medivacs for drop play if thats your style and/or tanks for a defense against banes. So we're talking about 7-8 minutes into the game before most T's even have a chance of putting some sort of pressure against zerg if they're on 2 base with a reasonable spine defense. I've actually found out from playing a ton of TvZ's that if I let zerg get an early expo out chances are that I will lose.


----------



## Epona

Anyone up for some 4v4s with people we know? We have 7 people right now. If so, message me (character code 902, name Epona) and we'll hit it up. We also have vent, which is fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11775869*
> Here's a question for you, pretty easy: Has any of them trying go for pool first and get crawlers almost right away? Doubt that's happened, from what I've seen, they go for exp, then pool and lay down crawlers rather late(based on North's last game against you). I see, so he also isn't a strong macro player, interesting that plat and diamond Zs still aren't macroing hard with Z. As for bunker rushes, well, tbh, to me, that just sounds too cheesy. Marine attacks are one thing but putting a bunker near an enemy base before the first marine is even out or just as he exits sounds like cheese to me


How are they cheesy? No reason not to.. and yeah it should be pretty much standard play ( it is ). What's cheesy is hatch first lol. That's how you at least make them scared / pay a little for doing what in theory should be a risky build.

If you don't apply pressure to Zerg early they just drone up and you'll be behind the entire game.

Also one base Zerg kinda sucks. Though I've lost to it from stupid baneling busts before but I probably won't lose almost ever to a 1 base to a slow expo Zerg who plays standard. Of course a good player can still beat me occasionally but generally I'll have a big advantage if they don't hatch first.

The entire point to my build is to force lings / spines down. The fewer drones the better.

Also I told you a couple days ago I notice some improvements but you still are horrible at macro. That's a compliment and criticism. Just fix those big holes in your game and you'll be a million times better.

MasterLaw has told me how much of a pain my bunker / early pressure is. NK hates it too.


----------



## dezshiz

I cant stand it!! why doesn't trump scout!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11776523*
> How are they cheesy? No reason not to.. and yeah it should be pretty much standard play ( it is ). What's cheesy is hatch first lol. That's how you at least make them scared / pay a little for doing what in theory should be a risky build.
> 
> If you don't apply pressure to Zerg early they just drone up and you'll be behind the entire game.
> 
> Also one base Zerg kinda sucks. Though I've lost to it from stupid baneling busts before but I probably won't lose almost ever to a 1 base to a slow expo Zerg who plays standard. Of course a good player can still beat me occasionally but generally I'll have a big advantage if they don't hatch first.
> 
> The entire point to my build is to force lings / spines down. The fewer drones the better.
> 
> Also I told you a couple days ago I notice some improvements but you still are horrible at macro. That's a compliment and criticism. Just fix those big holes in your game and you'll be a million times better.


Good advice, macro is actually really easy to improve on in my opinion. It's just about grinding out games and solely focusing on making units/production buildings, and workers constantly. Basically its better to be horrible at macro than something more complicated like micro.


----------



## DoomDash

I agree macro is pretty easy to fix. Some people just spend time thinking about strategies or ideas they aren't ready for instead.

Day9 says it best. You should work on macro first, because you'll have more units, walk in, and kill sh|t.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11776568*
> Basically its better to be horrible at macro than something more complicated like micro.


Good point. I think macro can always be learned through repetition and knowledge. Macro was my strongest point in BW but surprisingly I started SC2 with better micro. It just kind of came naturally even though I didnt play WC3/WoW.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11776632*
> I agree macro is pretty easy to fix. Some people just spend time thinking about strategies or ideas they aren't ready for instead.
> 
> Day9 says it best. You should work on macro first, because you'll have more units, walk in, and kill sh|t.


Nice avatar, but I still hate T


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11776723*
> Good point. I think macro can always be learned through repetition and knowledge. Macro was my strongest point in BW but surprisingly I started SC2 with better micro. It just kind of came naturally even though I didnt play WC3/WoW.
> 
> Nice avatar, but I still hate T


Yea, I actually started out playing SC2 with better micro and stutter stepping and somewhat decent marine splitting came pretty easily. My macro was terrible though. All of those years of playing Counter Strike probably payed off with the micro aspect.


----------



## poroboszcz

What's wrong with cheese anyway? Calling strategy 'cheesy' is often just an excuse to losing to it because of poor play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11775644*
> You should OC it for him. Mines was so bad that my *game would freeze for 3-5 seconds* when a new texture would load up. (when putting down a barracks or any other structure.)


hmm, while I've never had that, whenever a big battle gets underway, sometimes every will slow down and start to lag so that I can't click on any unit to micro. Happened in an FFA against doom and neva when I was playing P going against his ultralisks+slings army. Hopefully, my new gpu will fix those issues








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11776523*
> How are they cheesy? No reason not to.. and yeah it should be pretty much standard play ( it is ). What's cheesy is hatch first lol. That's how you at least make them scared / pay a little for doing what in theory should be a risky build.
> 
> *If you don't apply pressure to Zerg early they just drone up and you'll be behind the entire game.*
> 
> Also one base Zerg kinda sucks. Though I've lost to it from stupid baneling busts before but I probably won't lose almost ever to a 1 base to a slow expo Zerg who plays standard. Of course a good player can still beat me occasionally but generally I'll have a big advantage if they don't hatch first.
> 
> The entire point to my build is to force lings / spines down. The fewer drones the better.
> 
> Also I told you a couple days ago I notice some improvements but you still are horrible at macro. That's a compliment and criticism. Just fix those big holes in your game and you'll be a million times better.
> 
> *MasterLaw has told me how much of a pain my bunker / early pressure is. NK hates it too.*


How is hatch first cheesy? You can go cc first if you like. Difference is for Z, getting that hatchery up fast will help you compete with a T/P. We all know how much Z needs that second hatch. I do agree though, it's how you make them a bit scared, etc....

You can still apply pressure to early Z. I mean you can attack with marines and micro then, no need for a bunker either







Actually, you only mentioned it after we had our little, what I am saying, big long conversation in that game against LtFrog early on XD

As for that bunker, well, I've never seen you trying it on me whenever we had a 1vs1, so, can't really tell how annoying it is







Either way, whether we ever have another 1vs1 or not, I'm pretty confident that I can stop it early on








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11777107*
> What's wrong with cheese anyway? Calling strategy 'cheesy' is often just an excuse to losing to it because of poor play.


I never call any strategy cheese. Infact, I don't consider cannon rushes, bunker rushes, 6 pool, etc.... it's more that the bunker one seemed like it, but, if you go off the definition of finishing a game early, then really only 6 pool and cannon/bunker rushes can be considered cheese








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11776723*
> Good point. I think macro can always be learned through repetition and knowledge. Macro was my strongest point in BW but surprisingly I started SC2 with better micro. It just kind of came naturally even though I didnt play WC3/WoW.
> 
> Nice avatar, but I still hate T


I still have no clue how my micro is. I've had games where I thought I did well and others where I micro'd really badly


----------



## CramComplex

BigFan ya ain't online...i want that re-match~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11777667*
> BigFan ya ain't online...i want that re-match~


Hey, online atm if you want a rematch


----------



## Epona

Just so you all know, you missed a three hour lolzfest on SC2 Fastest Map Ever.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epona;11778273*
> Just so you all know, you missed a three hour lolzfest on SC2 Fastest Map Ever.


lol, used to love that map in sc1, always played it XD


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epona;11778273*
> Just so you all know, you missed a three hour lolzfest on SC2 Fastest Map Ever.


man gotta invite us on that ~____~


----------



## CramComplex

anyone wanna spectate?

'coz BigFan just DC'ed and we're starting another game LOL


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I want to, but I'm not sure how. I have big fan as a friend and i'll see whats going on.

mathieu 519


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11777642*
> 
> How is hatch first cheesy? You can go cc first if you like. Difference is for Z, getting that hatchery up fast will help you compete with a T/P. We all know how much Z needs that second hatch. I do agree though, it's how you make them a bit scared, etc....
> 
> You can still apply pressure to early Z. I mean you can attack with marines and micro then, no need for a bunker either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you only mentioned it after we had our little, what I am saying, big long conversation in that game against LtFrog early on XD
> 
> As for that bunker, well, I've never seen you trying it on me whenever we had a 1vs1, so, can't really tell how annoying it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, whether we ever have another 1vs1 or not, I'm pretty confident that I can stop it early on


I'm sure you can stop it sometimes. I never said its impossible or anything. It can be pretty hard depending on positions and such. As vdek says he usually stops it... but sometimes he'll lose his hatch. It's just like applying early marine pressure except more powerful, no reason not to do it and it's not even remotely cheesy. Get used to seeing it the better you get. Also stopping it is fine and all but chances are I will have forced you to spend a ton of money you would have rather spent on drones, so its win win for me.

I'm not serious about 14 hatch being cheesy but it is a super powerful build that can put you very far ahead. Bunker rushing is just something that you can do to try and prevent such a strong build.

and thanks for the avatar compliments you Terran haters







.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11778926*
> I want to, but I'm not sure how. I have big fan as a friend and i'll see whats going on.
> 
> mathieu 519


well right now we're just talking animoooooo~ we're done playing...2 loss 1 win against him







also added you on BNet


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11778974*
> and thanks for the avatar compliments you Terran haters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


gotta love that...will make one too~~~


----------



## DoomDash

I don't understand how some of you guys can play 2v2+. I can't stand it.

1v1 <3.


----------



## DoomDash

Mwarren these are for you ( My TvZ ):






The game on Shakuras was funny because at one point my Hellions set a background tree on fire. I never noticed that before!

The game with vdek on temple he had the right idea finally and it was a pretty close match. Maybe if he didn't accidentally make those corrupter's he would have made it really close.

I consider my TvZ my most thought out match up yet ( though I still need to work in medivacs ect ), yet I still lose it 75% in ladder to macro Zergs.


----------



## Mwarren

Nice, going to check those games out now. Do you have any good TvP replays too? That's the match up that I have the most problems with.


----------



## DoomDash

Nothing recent. Maybe I'll get some when I ladder next.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11778974*
> I'm sure you can stop it sometimes. I never said its impossible or anything. It can be pretty hard depending on positions and such. As vdek says he usually stops it... but sometimes he'll lose his hatch. It's just like applying early marine pressure except more powerful, no reason not to do it and it's not even remotely cheesy. Get used to seeing it the better you get. Also stopping it is fine and all but chances are I will have forced you to spend a ton of money you would have rather spent on drones, so its win win for me.
> 
> *I know its not cheesy so to speak, just seems like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there is a fine line to stop it without wasting a ton of money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> I'm not serious about 14 hatch being cheesy but it is a super powerful build that can put you very far ahead. Bunker rushing is just something that you can do to try and prevent such a strong build.
> 
> and thanks for the avatar compliments you Terran haters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


As for avatar, it stinks, no T love from me, Z FTW! XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11779009*
> well right now we're just talking animoooooo~ we're done playing...2 loss *1 win* against him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also added you on BNet


You know, I made you win just so you wouldn't feel bad XD jk of course, nicely done using medivacs to get vision and drop your troops within tank range into my base








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11779635*
> I don't understand how some of you guys can play 2v2+. I can't stand it.
> 
> 1v1 <3.


Well, its considered fun to play 2vs2+. Not sure if you know what fun means though considering your competitive nature in 1vs1 XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11780515*
> As for avatar, it stinks, no T love from me, Z FTW! XD
> 
> You know, I made you win just so you wouldn't feel bad XD jk of course, nicely done using medivacs to get vision and drop your troops within tank range into my base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, its considered fun to play 2vs2+. Not sure if you know what fun means though considering your competitive nature in 1vs1 XD


If you think a normal bunker rush is cheesy you should see the one I do to NorthKoreaa ( posted last page ). Not that it's much different.

*edit* nevermind I think it was vdek on metal.


----------



## cory1234

My team is looking for new members. If anyone wants to try out let me know.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What are the requirements? I want to get into sc2 multiplayer more.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What are the requirements? I want to get into sc2 multiplayer more.


Going to take a wild guess they are looking for mid to high diamond players. I definitely don't fit in there myself XD


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


You know, I made you win just so you wouldn't feel bad XD jk of course, nicely done using medivacs to get vision and drop your troops within tank range into my base










yeah i kinda got that from your lack of SCV training when i re-dropped LOL still blue-flame-charred SCV's in the morning~ priceless LOL

OT: remember what we talked about? Pulled the trigger...on an AX750, HD 6950 and 3 140mm scythe 1700RPM fans...$520...skipped on the monitors 'coz I'll be waiting for the HDMI inputs to be a bit more wide-spread XD


----------



## Sainesk

is it normal to get 10-15 fps on max settings (1920x1080) with my setup when playing 4v4 with everyone having pretty big armies?









SC2 still doesn't support crossfire right? any chance it will in the future?


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


is it normal to get 10-15 fps on max settings (1920x1080) with my setup when playing 4v4 with everyone having pretty big armies?









SC2 still doesn't support crossfire right? any chance it will in the future?


even tho i'm all on low settings...i lag like down to 15fps :/

they prolly will with HotS...but you know blizzard...they like their games played on slower less monster rigs that we have LOL


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


they prolly will with HotS...but you know blizzard...they like their games played on slower less monster rigs that we have LOL


be nice to have a benching option too...


----------



## yks

Games anyone?


----------



## Katana

I sort of wonder if I should try installing SC2 on my parents' computer while I'm visiting them for the holidays. I asked them to get a computer with an actual graphics card rather than integrated, but I still don't think it's very powerful.

Also: I think 2v2 is enjoyable because if you lose, you have someone to blame.

"WAY TO GO HAVING NOTHING, idiot, only a newb turtles so slow"
or
"WAY TO WASTE ALL YOUR TROOPS EARLY, idiot, should have been building up for the long haul"
depending on the situation =p


----------



## Mwarren

I'm down for some games.


----------



## CramComplex

maybe a bit later...need to take a power nap

(more like installing my new hardware~~~~)


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Games anyone?


I'll go for a game.


----------



## yks

Kinda hard to get some games without your name/CC!!


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Kinda hard to get some games without your name/CC!!


added =p


----------



## geoffman840

///


----------



## yks

GG Rayzer


----------



## Rayzer

gg, I lost my timing window before colossus came out.


----------



## Mwarren

gg's. Didn't realize how important that siege tanks were TvP .


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


gg's. Didn't realize how important that siege tanks were TvP .


They aren't besides maybe late game to prevent templar.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


gg's. Didn't realize how important that siege tanks were TvP .


tanks? TvP?

wat.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


They aren't besides maybe late game to prevent templar.


You are slow on the Korean Trends my good sir!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


yeah i kinda got that from your lack of SCV training when i re-dropped LOL still blue-flame-charred SCV's in the morning~ priceless LOL

OT: remember what we talked about? Pulled the trigger...on an AX750, HD 6950 and 3 140mm scythe 1700RPM fans...$520...skipped on the monitors 'coz I'll be waiting for the HDMI inputs to be a bit more wide-spread XD


I just wasn't expecting it and was watching my exp at the time of the drop, poor SCVs, lost like 20 or so XD I was able to recover but I wasn't able to take out your tanks









AX750? What type? Well, you know what's best, I would save the rest. In terms of HDMI, well, it's widespread enough now XD Wires are pretty cheap: http://ncix.com/products/index.php?s...E&promoid=1253

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


is it normal to get 10-15 fps on max settings (1920x1080) with my setup when playing 4v4 with everyone having pretty big armies?









SC2 still doesn't support crossfire right? any chance it will in the future?


Yep, it is. My poor system lags when you have a lot of units on the screen making it impossible to micro anything, hoping that a gpu overhaul will fix it







Not sure if they'll ever add crossfire support. I mean SC2 is easily doable on many gpus and you don't really need crossfire as much as say crysis for example









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


be nice to have a benching option too...










lol, the new question will be: But can it play SC2? XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


I sort of wonder if I should try installing SC2 on my parents' computer while I'm visiting them for the holidays. I asked them to get a computer with an actual graphics card rather than integrated, but I still don't think it's very powerful.

Also: I think 2v2 is enjoyable because if you lose, *you have someone to blame.*
"*WAY TO GO HAVING NOTHING, idiot, only a newb turtles so slow*"
or
"*WAY TO WASTE ALL YOUR TROOPS EARLY, idiot, should have been building up for the long haul*"
depending on the situation =p


lol, I like your style XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


maybe a bit later...need to take a power nap

(more like installing my new hardware~~~~)


Really hope you slept a bit, because, I know I slept a lot XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


tanks? TvP?

wat.


Tanks in TvsP aren't bad early though, but, once chargelots are onto the field, only mass tanks with MMM support will work well as in tanks can shell them from range and do major damage by the time they hit MMM. Of course hts will wreck MMM and so will colossi but placement is key


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You are slow on the Korean Trends my good sir!


Last time I saw tanks in a korean games it was the GSL.

Spoiler: didn't end well for the Terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Tanks are a ******* joke vs Protoss. Immortals anyone? If you go tanks vs Protoss either you don't know how to play, or the Protoss player doesn't know how to play for letting you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11783715*
> Tanks are a ******* joke vs Protoss. Immortals anyone? If you go tanks vs Protoss either you don't know how to play, or the Protoss player doesn't know how to play for letting you.


lol, well, while North wasn't a great player as T for obvious reasons, his tanks did do some major damage. I think his major issues were that he didn't have enough of them and kept waiting instead of engaging allowing me to mass chargelots and get immortals


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11783743*
> lol, well, while North wasn't a great player as T for obvious reasons, his tanks did do some major damage. I think his major issues were that he didn't have enough of them and kept waiting instead of engaging allowing me to mass chargelots and get immortals


We are talking non-awful matches. The only times his tanks did anything is when you had 0 immortals. You literally saw mass tanks and until I private messaged you did not build immortals. **** you only had one robo bay when you saw mass tanks. Yeah his tanks screwed up your stalkers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11783761*
> We are talking non-awful matches. The only times his tanks did anything is when you had 0 immortals. You literally saw mass tanks and until I private messaged you did not build immortals. **** you only had one robo bay when you saw mass tanks. Yeah his tanks screwed up your stalkers.


Darn, there goes my response








TL;DR wanted to have fun with colossi first then went for immortals afterwards, although, the match was played mostly for fun then competitiveness


----------



## yks

Just had a 40min AIM Conversation with DoomDash about Tanks.

It was pretty interesting.

We pretty much agree NA Toss need to catch up to KR Toss.

Then NA Terran Tank will be awesome like it is in KR


----------



## thiru

Post message log.

Highlight letters to reveal hidden dirty words.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11783715*
> Tanks are a ******* joke vs Protoss. Immortals anyone? If you go tanks vs Protoss either you don't know how to play


Like mkp, taking 2nd place at the GSL 2 times in a row, making tanks in almost every TvP. What a noob!


----------



## Katana

Uh...I'm pretty sure tanks are a big part of the terran ground army anyway. Yes, immortals are the perfect counter, which is why you rearrange the attack to counter THEM. (obviously, smaller units like marines)

Speaking of TvP, has anyone seen actually effective use of the Ghost's EMP against protoss shields? Theoretically, every last one of their immortals would be useless once that shot goes off. (the 10-damage effect is only when the shields are on)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11784132*
> Like mkp, taking 2nd place at the GSL 2 times in a row, making tanks in almost every TvP. What a noob!


wat


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11784143*
> Uh...I'm pretty sure tanks are a big part of the terran ground army anyway. Yes, immortals are the perfect counter, which is why you rearrange the attack to counter THEM. (obviously, smaller units like marines)
> 
> Speaking of TvP, has anyone seen actually effective use of the Ghost's EMP against protoss shields? Theoretically, every last one of their immortals would be useless once that shot goes off. (the 10-damage effect is only when the shields are on)


EMP takes out 100 shield. So yes it effectively takes out the shield of lots of protoss units including the immortal...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11783642*
> Last time I saw tanks in a korean games it was the GSL.
> 
> Spoiler: didn't end well for the Terran.


Naama would disagree when he steamrolled mana in the dreamhacks finals.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11784162*
> Naama would disagree when he steamrolled mana in the dreamhacks finals.


Well tell naama he can PM me on TL.


----------



## DoomDash

This post is for vdek:

20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Zerglings:

1 Zealot left.

20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Speedlings:

4 Zerglings left.

20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:

16 Zerglings left.

20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:

7 Zealots left.

20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Armor Speedlings:

12 Zerglings left.

No micro at all for any.

So +1 attack instead of +1 armor vs +1 Zealots = you get raped.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11784143*
> Uh...I'm pretty sure tanks are a big part of the terran ground army anyway. Yes, immortals are the perfect counter, which is why you rearrange the attack to counter THEM. (obviously, smaller units like marines)
> 
> Speaking of TvP, has anyone seen actually effective use of the Ghost's EMP against protoss shields? Theoretically, every last one of their immortals would be useless once that shot goes off. (the 10-damage effect is only when the shields are on)


My thoughts alike, EMPing those immortals would mean that the tanks have a field day with them, it's 50 vs. armored and let's not forget MMM which will be at the front doing some damage


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11784132*
> Like mkp, taking 2nd place at the GSL 2 times in a row, making tanks in almost every TvP. What a noob!


You mean the guy who Artosis and Tasteless said that TvP wasn't his strong point? Also the guy who played 95% Zergs to get there? Also did you not noticed that yks mentioned that against the Korean style tanks are probably fine.. but they don't play that against NA style. NA style would crush that Terran style ( which is why I don't build tanks much ).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11784162*
> Naama would disagree when he steamrolled mana in the dreamhacks finals.


Nony said how European Protoss players don't know how to beat tanks for some reason. He talked about how gimmicky tank play is and you can pretty much just walk in and kill them at any point if you know what you're doing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11784232*
> My thoughts alike, EMPing those immortals would mean that the tanks have a field day with them, it's 50 vs. armored and let's not forget MMM which will be at the front doing some damage


Terran should be dead long before tanks and ghosts. Tanks + Ghosts means the main chunk of your army will suck. If you see tank play there is a huge timing window of opportunity.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784243*
> You mean the guy who Artosis and Tasteless said that TvP wasn't his strong point? Also the guy who played 95% Zergs to get there? Also did you not noticed that yks mentioned that against the Korean style tanks are probably fine.. but they don't play that against NA style. NA style would crush that Terran style ( which is why I don't build tanks much ).


Can someone fill me in on this NA and KR style?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784276*
> Terran should be dead long before tanks and ghosts. Tanks + Ghosts means the main chunk of your army will suck. If you see tank play there is a huge timing window of opportunity.


Well, I don't mean lots of ghosts, just 2-3 or so, so, that you can EMP several times


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784216*
> This post is for vdek:
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Zerglings:
> 
> 1 Zealot left.
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Speedlings:
> 
> 4 Zerglings left.
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:
> 
> 16 Zerglings left.
> 
> 20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:
> 
> 7 Zealots left.
> 
> 20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Armor Speedlings:
> 
> 12 Zerglings left.
> 
> No micro at all for any.
> 
> So +1 attack instead of +1 armor vs +1 Zealots = you get raped.


Just to fix up his math









But you get the idea.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11784295*
> Well, I don't mean lots of ghosts, just 2-3 or so, so, that you can EMP several times


Yeah but your army will be considerably weaker and slower to get the numbers you need to really take advantage of those EMP's. It's a double edged sword. I do agree it could be good, but it has a very very weak point to it.


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784276*
> Terran should be dead long before tanks and ghosts. Tanks + Ghosts means the main chunk of your army will suck. If you see tank play there is a huge timing window of opportunity.


Yeah...this is why I asked if there have been specific instances of it happening. I just can't find any good use for Ghosts as they're so late in the game, so easy to kill, need research for everything (even cloaking), and don't have such superb abilities anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11784349*
> Yeah...this is why I asked if there have been specific instances of it happening. I just can't find any good use for Ghosts as they're so late in the game, so easy to kill, need research for everything (even cloaking), and don't have such superb abilities anyway.


Well ghosts are pretty good I work them in my own builds vs Protoss before I even get starports TBH, even off of 2 rax FE's. I might skip them if I see fast Colossus though.


----------



## yks

Ladder Win-Rate Wise (win rate not points)

KR: 1st) Zerg, 2nd) Terran, 3rd) Toss
EU: 1st) Terran, 2nd) Toss, 3rd) Zerg
NA: 1st) Protoss, 2nd) Terran, 3rd) Zerg

Basically, Terran in EU and KR using Tanks against P are going to be a future soon. As its already the trend in KR ladder.

NA Terran doing it though will get pwnt by most the NA Protoss cause NA Protoss is still stuck on their ROBO play. Which is slowly dieing out everywhere else. MC's lack (or none-of, I don't remember) of Colossi in the finals is the start


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11784390*
> Ladder Win-Rate Wise (win rate not points)
> 
> KR: 1st) Zerg, 2nd) Terran, 3rd) Toss
> EU: 1st) Terran, 2nd) Toss, 3rd) Zerg
> NA: 1st) Protoss, 2nd) Terran, 3rd) Zerg
> 
> Basically, Terran in EU and KR using Tanks against P are going to be a future soon. As its already the trend in KR ladder.
> 
> NA Terran doing it though will get pwnt by most the NA Protoss cause NA Protoss is still stuck on their ROBO play. Which is slowly *dieing out* everywhere else. MC's lack (or none-of, I don't remember) of Colossi in the finals is the start


Interesting that Z is in the final place in EU/NA but not KR. Likely due to them being able to better macro than their EU/NA counterparts. Nice that the strats are changed, wonder what the route is though, since, zealots+stalker+colossi is the usual P in my games


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11784132*
> Like mkp, taking 2nd place at the GSL 2 times in a row, making tanks in almost every TvP. What a noob!


marine king only got 2nd place once. GSL 2

GSL 1 was IntoTheRainbow
GSL 3 was Rain.

but yeeee =D


----------



## Allenssmart

**** how do you counter void rays? i play terran. I had 200 supply, 5 battlecruisers, and 50 supply worth of scvs. everything else was marines, marauders, siege tanks and medivacs. My entire army got decimated by 10 void rays. he didn't even lose one, and their shields just regenerated. Siege tanks were in siege mode, marines and marauders stimmed, yamato cannons all activated on void rays, and marines focus firing on void rays. completely destroyed. protoss and void rays op, unless you can tell me what i did wrong.


----------



## thiru

Stop turtling and kill him before he gets 10.


----------



## blackedv

well 5 yamatos should have eliminated 5 right off the bat pretty much, what were the upgrades like for both of yall and was he charged. something like 30 rines should devour 10 voids as long as upgrades are kept up and he wasnt charged


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11784740*
> **** how do you counter void rays? i play terran. I had 200 supply, 5 battlecruisers, and 50 supply worth of scvs. everything else was marines, marauders, siege tanks and medivacs. My entire army got decimated by 10 void rays. he didn't even lose one, and their shields just regenerated. Siege tanks were in siege mode, marines and marauders stimmed, yamato cannons all activated on void rays, and marines focus firing on void rays. completely destroyed. protoss and void rays op, unless you can tell me what i did wrong.


VRs counter battlecruisers, because, once they all charge up, they are powerful. Either way, your marines should've taken them down no problem. Try to avoid charging up, yamato them seperately. As mentioned, you should've been able to taken down 5 of them right away with yamato leaving only 5, then focus firing the rest with bc's and marines. Of course, preventing him from going mass VRs is better in the first place, but, 10 is nowhere near mass


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11784740*
> **** how do you counter void rays? i play terran. I had 200 supply, 5 battlecruisers, and 50 supply worth of scvs. everything else was marines, marauders, siege tanks and medivacs. My entire army got decimated by 10 void rays. he didn't even lose one, and their shields just regenerated. Siege tanks were in siege mode, marines and marauders stimmed, yamato cannons all activated on void rays, and marines focus firing on void rays. completely destroyed. protoss and void rays op, unless you can tell me what i did wrong.


Select your marines, stim and charge. Marines are the most cost efficient units to counter VRs if you can get in position.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone else remember when voids rays out ranged marines in bunkers? rofl. Holy **** was that bad.


----------



## Allenssmart

the void rays were all charged up to level 3 cause there were charged up on destructible rocks....

marines had combat shield and stim, no other upgrades. my battlecruisers got destroyed before they got close enough and finished charging their cannons at the void rays.


----------



## DoomDash

Only 2 levels of charge for voidrays ( though 3 visually because there used to be 3 ).

Vikings also beat the crap out of voids.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11785108*
> the void rays were all charged up to level 3 cause there were charged up on destructible rocks....
> 
> marines had combat shield and stim, no other upgrades. my battlecruisers got destroyed before they got close enough and finished charging their cannons at the void rays.


Why not attack as they charge? Either way, you should've moved back and attacked when they weren't charged, otherwise, all focusing on bc's, they'll be taken out easily


----------



## Allenssmart

ok thanks guys! btw, how do you attack a protoss base that has walled itself in with photon cannons? i played my friend and he had about 35 photon cannons in his base. Photon cannons are detectors too, so I tried to sneak in a ghost to launch a nuke but he was ontop of the cliff so I couldn't get to him cause of how you can see units higher up. I tried getting banshees in but they were easily shot down cause photon cannons are detectors too. I tried siege tanks but i couldn't get a line of sight on them for the same reason. any ideas?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11784597*
> marine king only got 2nd place once. GSL 2
> 
> GSL 1 was IntoTheRainbow
> GSL 3 was Rain.
> 
> but yeeee =D


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784243*
> You mean the guy who Artosis and Tasteless said that TvP wasn't his strong point? Also the guy who played 95% Zergs to get there? Also did you not noticed that yks mentioned that against the Korean style tanks are probably fine.. but they don't play that against NA style. NA style would crush that Terran style ( which is why I don't build tanks much ).
> 
> Nony said how European Protoss players don't know how to beat tanks for some reason. He talked about how gimmicky tank play is and you can pretty much just walk in and kill them at any point if you know what you're doing.


Sorry for some reason I thought mkp was in GSL3 finals, but I was thinking about Rain. Anyway my argument still stands. Most top Korean terrans use tanks in TvP.

Also talking about Korean and NA 'style' is misleading. There's just top level of play and lower level of play.


----------



## DoomDash

If you can't beat cannons with siege tanks or nukes you are just playing wrong hah. Killing Cannons with tanks is easy.. **** even Marauders take out cannons very fast.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11785234*
> 
> Also talking about Korean and NA 'style' is misleading. There's just top level of play and lower level of play.


Not really though. The styles from each region are just much different. NA players play nothing like Euro guys ( even you ).


----------



## ThumperSD

BCs arent an efficient counter to VRs. If you see VRs you do not generally want to make BCs unless you have a ton of marines backing them up. If he has 35 photon cannons that equates to 5250 minerals. Thats a TON of minerals... All you have to do is expand, and build up your army which will be much bigger than his. You never want to turtle that hard. You will lose in plat/diamond games playing like that. You will want to scan his base though so you can see why he is turtling. Most of the time he will be teching straight for VRs or carriers.

I wouldnt try fancy plays like nuke if you are new to the game. It isnt nearly as good as it was in SC1. Just play a solid fundamental macro game. You can incorporate fancy strats later when you solidify your play.


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11785183*
> ok thanks guys! btw, how do you attack a protoss base that has walled itself in with photon cannons? i played my friend and he had about 35 photon cannons in his base. Photon cannons are detectors too, so I tried to sneak in a ghost to launch a nuke but he was ontop of the cliff so I couldn't get to him cause of how you can see units higher up. I tried getting banshees in but they were easily shot down cause photon cannons are detectors too. I tried siege tanks but i couldn't get a line of sight on them for the same reason. any ideas?


Another proper question is: How do you beat a player who has walled himself in with photon cannons. The proper response may not be attacking, at least not yet.

Those cannons take resources, especially if he's spamming them everywhere. Chances are, he's going to bunker up for the long haul and make his favorite protoss giant unit. Then, he'll run out of resources at his main, so he'll establish elsewhere. Find that base by sending one small unit to every resource point on the map (and keep them there right where the building would go, in case he tries to send a probe out) Since his army consists of an inanimate object, he can't defend much when you go rape that. Soon he'll be starved for resources and then you can sort of take your time establishing a plan.

Also, I think if it's NOTHING but cannons (ie, not a single zealot, which would be ridiculous), a single siege tank and a single banshee should be able to do it. The sight range of most air units is just a bit more than the attack range of cannons, so it should be able to carefully provide sight for the tank.

Finally, the Raven's point-defense drone should work against the photon cannon's shot. It only has so much energy, but until then you have a good advantage. Just keep in mind, the Raven is a late-game unit, and it's obviously not something to rush for immediately or you just waste a lot of vespene gas.

I'm still new, so other guys, feel free to correct on anything that was wrong, misleading.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11785234*
> Sorry for some reason I thought mkp was in GSL3 finals, but I was thinking about Rain. Anyway my argument still stands. Most top Korean terrans use tanks in TvP.
> 
> Also talking about Korean and NA 'style' is misleading. There's just top level of play and lower level of play.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11785250*
> Not really though. The styles from each region are just much different. NA players play nothing like Euro guys ( even you ).


Ya I agree, top Koreans use tanks in TvP, to the point where it is starting to trend in Korean ladder. And once it hits the KR Ladder, it's only a matter of time before it hits the NA Ladder.

But yeah, the style in each region is immensely different. Top Level KR, Top Level NA, Top Level EU; while the "strats" are relatively the same, the execution and how they go about it within the 3 regions are totally different.


----------



## poroboszcz

Well, if you look at the differences between leagues you'll also notice different styles, but you don't say someone plays gold style of terran for example. The trends are coming from Korea, where the players are most dedicated and have most time to play and understand the game. I can't think of any strategies made up by NA or EU players that would suddenly start to dominate Korean ladder.

Here's something about the difference between Korean and other players. It's about BW so it may not fully apply to SC2 yet, because the game is still new, but I believe it's soon going to.
Quote:


> One of the biggest problems is on the differences between Koreans and Foreigners. Quite often you will hear
> people say that someone plays a 'foreigner style' or 'korean style.' This is misleading, as the word style gives
> off the impression that it is up to preference, or that there is not a large gap.
> 
> For example, can anyone really argue convincingly that the aggressive Zerg style of July/Jaedong is
> better or worse than the defensive/management style of Gorush/Savior? Both paths have been proven
> viable and it's up to each player to decide which one suits them better. In this case the difference is a matter
> of choice.
> 
> Unfortunately that is not the case for the differences between foreigners and Koreans. There are not two
> viable "styles" here, there is a bad and a good one. Guess which is good? Some people consider it a plus
> to be different than the Koreans, which is complete garbage. Playing a "Korean style" is one of the biggest
> compliments to be given. On the other hand, if someone is known to be 'creative' or 'non-standard' they
> almost always use some pretty terrible strategies.
> 
> The most likely reason for problem is that foreigners are not punished to the degree they should be
> and would be in the Korean scene for doing stupid strategies. Winning with something versus players who
> don't understand the game is not a good test of an idea. It doesn't mean its bad, but it doesn't mean its
> good either. Contrast that situation with top pros: when Flash or Fantasy consistently wins with something
> against the best possible competition, you know it is worth using.
> 
> When you consistently win with something it's only natural that your belief in the validity of your
> strategy is reinforced constantly. For progamers this is a great way to test the strength of their ideas. If
> they keep winning with it, it's probably a good strategy because they are testing it against the very best.
> That however does not apply to foreigners testing their ideas against other foreigners. If Flash shows up to
> the MSL Finals with 1 base bio openings he is going to get mercilessly crushed because Jaedong will know
> how to beat it. But foreigners can easily go higher than even b- with such atrocious strategies because they
> play against people who don't know how to react at all. The problem only grows worse because they believe
> their ideas are correct because they reinforce their beliefs by beating clueless opponents. When such things
> are possible, it's no wonder the overall strategic understanding becomes warped.


From: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf
Everyone should read it.


----------



## Mwarren

I feel your pain Doom, have been getting rolled in TvZ today. The problem is letting the zerg get the fast hatch at their natural. If I can hold it off I win about 70% of the time but if they get it than I'm most likely going to lose.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11786063*
> I feel your pain Doom, have been getting rolled in TvZ today. The problem is letting the zerg get the fast hatch at their natural. If I can hold it off I win about 70% of the time but if they get it than I'm most likely going to lose.


Did you watch those replays?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11786163*
> Did you watch those replays?


Yea, you basically just deny Zerg's third.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11784216*
> This post is for vdek:
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Zerglings:
> 
> 1 Zealot left.
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of Speedlings:
> 
> 4 Zerglings left.
> 
> 20 Supply of Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:
> 
> 16 Zerglings left.
> 
> 20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Attack Speedlings:
> 
> 7 Zealots left.
> 
> 20 Supply of +1 Zealots vs 20 Supply of +1 Armor Speedlings:
> 
> 12 Zerglings left.
> 
> No micro at all for any.
> 
> So +1 attack instead of +1 armor vs +1 Zealots = you get raped.


I see, I'll take that into account.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11786175*
> Yea, you basically just deny Zerg's third.


Denying a third exp for a zerg is like a death sentence because soon enough, their main will be mined out and if they were saturating, then their exp will be close behind.

Watched some more GSL 3 games, interesting to see the placement of some structures on LT or JB. Can't wait to get some games started in a while


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11786175*
> Yea, you basically just deny Zerg's third.


Well no that wasn't exactly what I was going for...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11786524*
> Well no that wasn't exactly what I was going for...


Pressure early on, deny a third and macro hard? Am I close? I haven't watched the replays yet so I'm guessing


----------



## yks

Play some games people, so I can obs and stream


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11786560*
> Play some games people, so I can obs and stream


I'll be on in 30min or so, need to do something first


----------



## Mwarren

I'm down to play/obs some more games too.


----------



## ThumperSD

I'll be down to join you guys. Havent played too much the last several weeks. I will be taking a shower shortly first.


----------



## yks

KOTH like we did a couple days ago? Stream is up and ready to go.


----------



## Katana

Just installed SC2 on my parents' home laptop, thinking it'll make for some amusement while I'm home. Right now I just feel like having fun and winning something so I may just play against AI, but maybe sometime this week I could play with people in the thread.

That all depends on the game actually running well. Needless to say, I'm gonna turn down all settings and hope for the best...


----------



## yks

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/yks-starcraft

streaming some games


----------



## Sainesk

i'm down for some games too, feel free to pm me.

i'm pretty newby though so don't be surprised/upset if I do silly things like queen rush you


----------



## yks

any1 else? 4 OCN people and 1 of Doom's friend so far.


----------



## poroboszcz

Seems I'm the only viewer








gl hf


----------



## BigFan

Coming!


----------



## justinguitar

Il play w/ you guys.
Add Funky.792


----------



## vdek

deleeeeted!


----------



## yks

3 hours of streaming, GG guys.

vdek, dont be demoralized.
bigfan, spend your money.
calm, expand more.
thumper, stay sexy my toss brethren
Dark, less maphack blind raven counter.
Doom, lets see your Tank play against P now. KR style.


----------



## DoomDash

ggs was fun.

Thumper I liked your Protoss.


----------



## ThumperSD

Thanks XD. I like to switch up my styles of play. Nice stream too yks, most streams of SC2 that I see are crap.

Oh and who else played after I left?


----------



## DoomDash

They are still playing. Mainly me vs vdek, bigfan as T vs vdek P, now its BigFan vs NorthKoreaa ( u may not know him ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11788693*
> 3 hours of streaming, GG guys.
> 
> vdek, dont be demoralized.
> bigfan, spend your money.
> calm, expand more.
> thumper, stay sexy my toss brethren
> Dark, less *maphack blind raven counter*.
> Doom, lets see your Tank play against P now. KR style.


Nice list, I love that comment XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11789097*
> Thanks XD. I like to switch up my styles of play. Nice stream too yks, most streams of SC2 that I see are crap.
> 
> Oh and who else played after I left?


Stream link plz?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11789160*
> They are still playing. Mainly me vs vdek, bigfan as T vs vdek P, now its BigFan vs NorthKoreaa ( u may not know him ).


Well, went 1/2 for tonight(customs) and got called a cheeser because I won against a P using MM. I would say it's a good night XD
Just finished ZvsZ. Man, was it ever difficult to get down that exp with all those mutas, eventually got it down but he was too far ahead to catch up too. I ended up losing to mass mutas, hydras, roaches, some slings and an infestor to FG my banes, talk about unit composition XD BTW, thanks for leaving in the middle of the match doom, right in my hour of need XD Jk of course, it's all good









TvsP I played tonight: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/120608-1v1-terran-protoss-delta-quadrant
Love the talk towards the end


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11789264*
> Man, was it ever difficult to get down that exp with all those mutas, eventually got it down but he was too far ahead to catch up too.


Lol, no he wasn't. He actually had less drones than you once you had your expo up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11789353*
> Lol, no he wasn't. He actually had less drones than you once you had your expo up.


Thing is, I wouldn't even know that XD I was able to take soo many drones out at his main with my mutas along with his queen, but, after that it went downhill :/ I'm not even sure how I managed to stay alive for so long. I should've just laid down tons of crawlers with spores in between for mutas







BTW, guys were asking for you


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I just wasn't expecting it and was watching my exp at the time of the drop, poor SCVs, lost like 20 or so XD I was able to recover but I wasn't able to take out your tanks









AX750? What type? Well, you know what's best, I would save the rest. In terms of HDMI, well, it's widespread enough now XD Wires are pretty cheap: http://ncix.com/products/index.php?s...E&promoid=1253

Really hope you slept a bit, because, I know I slept a lot XD


I got the full modular one with all black wiring...it's sooo smexy...I took a nap and ended missing out on the games...dammnit...plus I got work for 3 days...ARGH!!!

So I just woke up now and read the entire 5~6 full pages of posts...damn you guys had fun didn't you...I is sad puppy...didn't get to participate...huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


3 hours of streaming, GG guys.

vdek, dont be demoralized.
bigfan, spend your money.
calm, expand more.
thumper, stay sexy my toss brethren
Dark, less maphack blind raven counter.
Doom, lets see your Tank play against P now. KR style.


And you, learn to obs games. You pretty much missed everything that was happening except battles. Good stream quality though and fun to watch.

What was the result of the second game between BigFan and Calm? I stopped watching after BC rush. The first game was epic though.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


And you, learn to obs games. You pretty much missed everything that was happening except battles. Good stream quality though and fun to watch.

What was the result of the second game between BigFan and Calm? I stopped watching after BC rush. The first game was epic though.










I will try and work on that. But I get into typing mode, T_T but hey! battles are the only important thing!

BigFan ended up getting like 9 BLs and 4 Ultras and won, but still almost lost.

You should've got on some NA account and played with us Blinker!


----------



## Sainesk

yea Bigfan owned me game 2, I did so many things wrong like not expanding, too few buildings, and trying ghosts with no cloak among other things lol...


----------



## Mwarren

Are you going to be getting some games going again tonight yks? I had to hop off because it was getting late (est time zone).


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Are you going to be getting some games going again tonight yks? I had to hop off because it was getting late (est time zone).


If people are on and are down for it, I'll host again. But anyone can host, people just gotta take the initiative. Be assertive and proactive!

Glad everyone liked the stream though (except vdek who said it was crap-quality =P), high quality SC2/WOW streams have been pretty much my obsession lately.

I'll play some music next time, instead of just being on Skype with my friends, so you don't have to listen to them talk about WOW. But y'all prolly wont like my music.

And maybe if I'm fast enough, I'll get some VODs of funny BigFan-esque things, lol.

And Doom will be streaming soon, so you can watch him ladder and make fun of him.


----------



## Mwarren

Sweet, I'll be on tonight.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thing is, I wouldn't even know that XD I was able to take soo many drones out at his main with my mutas along with his queen, but, after that it went downhill :/ I'm not even sure how I managed to stay alive for so long. I should've just laid down tons of crawlers with spores in between for mutas







BTW, guys were asking for you










You should send in suicidal overlords. The only reason you stayed alive for so long was because NK was so hesitant to attack. You actually could have beat him when you first had your mutas if you had sent them in along with your lings after to clean up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


I got the full modular one with all black wiring...it's sooo smexy...I took a nap and ended missing out on the games...dammnit...plus I got work for 3 days...ARGH!!!

So I just woke up now and read the entire 5~6 full pages of posts...damn you guys had fun didn't you...I is sad puppy...didn't get to participate...huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh...


Nice, modular is good for better air circulation, low temps and less mess







If it makes you feel better, I missed the start as well. Was able to get on before they all started to leave, lol.

I did have fun though. I got wiped by Vdek in TvsP 3 times in a row. Went for gateways in my base, what a cheeser XD Then went for 4 gate on steepes and I didn't have a big enough army. Finally, on LT, due to not getting a 2nd exp and not scouting, I was attacked by 7 colossi or so







I was able to get a drop into his main and take out all his probes plus some pylons but didn't matter because I was attacked right after and lost







Had some good games with calm as well(got crushed in first similar to how you won in our game the first time as well).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


And you, learn to obs games. You pretty much *missed everything that was happening *except battles. Good stream quality though and fun to watch.

What was the result of the second game between BigFan and Calm? I stopped watching after BC rush. The *first game was epic *though.










XD Maybe in your book it was, went down as horrible in mine








From what I've seen in the GSL, they just talk about the player or some random stuff at the start since most matches have generic starts then they start focusing on what each is building and what the possible strat from it is along with any engagements or harass, etc.... Like someone starts building 2-3 rax, then you can say he's powering or making of drones, power droning, etc....









I ended up taking the second one. The first is forbidden to be spoken of XD He attacked in the first and since I wasn't scouting, I wasn't able to make an attack force big enough to defend against his.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I will try and work on that. But I get into typing mode, T_T but hey! battles are the only important thing!

BigFan ended up getting like 9 BLs and 4 Ultras and won, but still almost lost.

*You should've got on some NA account and played with us Blinker!*


Well, the BO according to you guys is also important







Still almost lost? I admit that bc at the start took me offguard and I hate thors especially since I love mutas and haven't practiced my magic box, so, it's almost a death statement, but, I had the spire before he attacked the first time and made corruptors which popped right after the bc killed my last queen and engaged my first muta, so, I didn't lose any workers or structures. Likewise, I was able to take out any other attacks afterwards and had 4 compared to his 1 then 2 bases









You're lucky you got see my BLs and ultras, because, those are rare in my games since I don't usually tech up to hive by the end of the game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


yea Bigfan owned me game 2, I did so many things wrong like not expanding, too few buildings, and trying ghosts with no cloak among other things lol...










Ghosts with cloak *can* be a bad idea. EMP+snipe is what makes them good against P(emp especially again immortals) and snipe is great to take out those larger/harder units. You expanded too late on that map, you should've went for 2 rax FE or so. The long distance would've meant you would have had an easy time defending the exp and it would've given you an advantage against me as well due to being on par base wise









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Are you going to be getting some games going again tonight yks? I had to hop off because it was getting late (*est time *zone).


I feel your pain XD I was up till 3-4 in the morning the last week at least because of that, lol, even then, if you don't have work the next day and don't mind waking up a bit late, it's not that bad


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


If people are on and are down for it, I'll host again. But anyone can host, people just gotta take the initiative. Be assertive and proactive!

Glad everyone liked the stream though (except vdek who said it was crap-quality =P), high quality SC2/WOW streams have been pretty much my obsession lately.

I'll play some music next time, instead of just being on Skype with my friends, so you don't have to listen to them talk about WOW. But y'all prolly wont like my music.

*And maybe if I'm fast enough, I'll get some VODs of funny BigFan-esque things, lol.*

And Doom will be streaming soon, so you can watch him ladder and make fun of him.


lol, why not focus the stream to the game as in everything from the music to the sounds to obviously the gameplay, would make it more interesting to watch









lol @ BigFan-esque things, let's see you try that XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


You should send in suicidal overlords. The only reason you stayed alive for so long was because NK was so hesitant to attack. You actually could have beat him when you first had your mutas if you had sent them in along with your lings after to clean up.


I hate suiciding OLs, don't think I ever did actually, because, I used to tech to lair fast for mutas and then use overseers to look around, but, I should just get used to suiciding them, lol. My mistake for not attacking so soon, wasn't sure what he had planned, but, since he had an exp before me, it wasn't a good sign, at least that's how I saw it


----------



## vdek

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *BigFan*   I hate suiciding OLs, don't think I ever did actually, because, I used to tech to lair fast for mutas and then use overseers to look around, but, I should just get used to suiciding them, lol. My mistake for not attacking so soon, wasn't sure what he had planned, but, since he had an exp before me, it wasn't a good sign, at least that's how I saw it







  
 Watch this:    
 You Tube  



 
 It's all about fighting an early expand. Thing is, when they early expand, they are down 300minerals for zerg, 400 for terran/toss. You have a window were you can do a lot of damage if you take advantage of it. If you don't, you better expand as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Spend your money!

Vdek BigFan hasn't watched any episodes we recommended yet to him still afaik.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


It's all about fighting an early expand. Thing is, when they early expand, they are down 300minerals for zerg, 400 for terran/toss. You have a window were you can do a lot of damage if you take advantage of it. If you don't, you better expand as well.


yes, I'm well aware of the timing when an exp is going down because of that shortage, however, when I scouted it, it was a little too late. He already had it pop and got the larvae from it which meant that he would be able to support his troops as well as I would be able to especially when distances are taken into out. I think I tried to exp but his slings > slings which made it difficult to expand just yet :/

According to masterlaw, he said that my 2nd hatch inbase was a bad idea which makes me wonder how your supposed to defend against mass slings with only one hatchery. I guess crawlers are the answer then :/


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


yes, I'm well aware of the timing when an exp is going down because of that shortage, however, when I scouted it, it was a little too late. He already had it pop and got the larvae from it which meant that he would be able to support his troops as well as I would be able to especially when distances are taken into out.

According to masterlaw, he said that my 2nd hatch inbase was a bad idea which makes me wonder how your supposed to defend against mass slings with only one hatchery. I guess crawlers are the answer then :/


You have to scout and check how many workers he has. You actually had 6-7 more workers and higher income than him for about 15 minutes...


----------



## Katana

Played a few games and am noticing my issues.
1. I suck at planning ahead with my resources. I never seem to have enough gas, and get an excess of minerals, then don't know what to build that just uses minerals. It's possible I've just been building too many workers in these games.
2. I try scouting often, but I never quite know what to look for or how to react to something. The only time I'd honestly be able to safely send a worker to the enemy base is right at the beginning, when I know they're going to have nothing. The worst part is that rookie league games prevent scouting with the rock-barriers.

BigFan, could you post your ID again so I could try playing with/against you sometime?


----------



## roberT_

I may as well stop lurking this thread and post.

game id: roberT 759

You'll see from my profile that I'm mainly a team game player. I started in 1v1s as a gold toss. I then got into team games... tried all the different races. Enough team games as all 3 races got me comfortable to try my last few 1v1 matches in gold as a random player which has worked out well so far.

I'm up for some games anytime I'm on


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


You have to scout and check how many workers he has. You actually had 6-7 more workers and higher income than him for about 15 minutes...


hmm, interesting you mention this because I thought that I messed up my droning bigtime at one point. Didn't realize that it was that long either, I mean the whole match was what, 25-30min or so? That's about if not more than half of the match. I made terrible mistakes, should've gotten hydralisk den, got infestors then FG+hydras+queen, his mutas would've been toast, then I would've moved from there







A lesson to be learned for next time


----------



## nlsthzn

Man this thread has grown uber big very fast...

What happened to the EU one?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11793639*
> Played a few games and am noticing my issues.
> 1. I suck at planning ahead with my resources. I never seem to have enough gas, and get an excess of minerals, then don't know what to build that just uses minerals. It's possible I've just been building too many workers in these games.
> 2. I try scouting often, but I never quite know what to look for or how to react to something. The only time I'd honestly be able to safely send a worker to the enemy base is right at the beginning, when I know they're going to have nothing. The worst part is that rookie league games prevent scouting with the rock-barriers.
> 
> BigFan, could you post your ID again so I could try playing with/against you sometime?


1. I have a similar issue with spending. I get close to saturation then I have thousands of minerals/gas that I'm not spending. Whenever that happens, I've started just laying down more hatcheries, more rax, gateways, etc.... basically anything that requires minerals. You'll be surprised how powerful marines can be when stimmed and upgraded, so, keep pumping and pressuring with them








2. Well, you want to see their tech path, so, that you can get a counter for it. If you see me massing roaches, marauders or stalker/immortals are the best counters. If I see you going MM, I'll be going slings+blings, etc.... Basically, see what they are doing and react accordingly. If they go for an exp, they are down 300 or 400(depending on race), so, this is the perfect time to strike. Do you play T? I'm assuming that you have an idea of other enemies' units, as in their hp/damage/abilities, etc.... so just learn the different counters. You can also use scan to scout which is nice, gotta sack an OL or hope that I can get a changeling into their base to scout









ID: Bigfan 707 Hope to see you one sometime


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11793703*
> Man this thread has grown uber big very fast...
> 
> What happened to the EU one?


The EU practice thread? I think thiru is the OP now, but, don't think there were many who were interested in participating so it went downhill from there :/


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11793732*
> The EU practice thread? I think thiru is the OP now, but, don't think there were many who were interested in participating so it went downhill from there :/


Sucks... last time I had a few of the guys on my friends list, problem is they are all about Platinum level, and I am but a humble Bronze dweller...


----------



## yks

If you guys are going to play some games right now, let me know, so I can obs/stream!


----------



## Katana

The problem with scouting for me is, if we're more than two minutes into the game, my worker will get attacked by their basic unit as soon as he gets up the ramp, often before then. The next time I get a good scouting unit is...
T: ???
Z: Changeling
P: Observer


----------



## Epona

Ghosts are good, banshees are good, oh hold the phone... SCAN.









And what you do is you go attack their unit with one of your SCVs when they do that. They'll either leave or die.


----------



## roberT_

Katana,

You don't have to get all the way into the base to get good scouting info. When I play as zerg, just sending one ling to die at the ramp gives me good info on army composition and size.

T: Scan


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11793795*
> The problem with scouting for me is, if we're more than two minutes into the game, my worker will get attacked by their basic unit as soon as he gets up the ramp, often before then. The next time I get a good scouting unit is...
> T: ???
> Z: Changeling
> P: Observer


T has scan which is amazing for revealing the area without losing an units(mules doesn't count). Likewise, ghosts and banshees work well to scout provided you don't start attacking them. As for your worker getting attacked with theirs right away, hold down shift, press M and then click around their base in a circle until you can't queue up anymore. Make sure to put to a group as well, I put 9. Then when its done the circles XD, you can just click 9 move around base again and then go back to your own








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11793791*
> If you guys are going to play some games right now, let me know, so I can obs/stream!


Unfortunately, not atm, going to be leaving soon, probably later tonight


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;11793835*
> Katana,
> 
> You don't have to get all the way into the base to get good scouting info. When I play as zerg, just sending one ling to die at the ramp gives me good info on army composition and size.
> 
> T: Scan


This assumes that your opponent puts his army near the ramp, some move them deep into the main, so, you only see MM there however, good idea to leave unit outside to know when they move out


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11793867*
> (mules doesn't count).


Losing 280 minerals doesn't count? Hmm. OL > Scan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11793911*
> Losing 280 minerals doesn't count? Hmm. OL > Scan.


lol, knew that was going to be said. My point is, it's a choice to make. Do you get a mule or scan? If you've kept on making workers and have been muling with any energy you have, I think a scan is a better idea, my opinion







I wasn't comparing OL to scan though, just saying that with OL, if your enemy catches it, he can take it out before it reaches deep into the base for intel, with scan, no fear of that


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11793703*
> Man this thread has grown uber big very fast...
> 
> What happened to the EU one?


It's dead. You can add me (I don't remember if I have you) Semirhage #522. I'll start playing more after the new year.
The only other EU active OCN member who posts here is Blinker, don't remember his character code though.


----------



## yks

Don't listen to BigFan's random theorycrafting, it'll only make you worse.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11793954*
> Don't listen to BigFan's random theorycrafting, it'll only make you worse.


XD
Really? I don't random theorycraft. I just mention what I've heard/read from other threads, whether they are on TL, battle.net, etc.... Also, since, when does my *crafting* make anyone worse? I don't tell ppl what to do, I just tell them what I've heard/read about what they are asking. If they decide to do it because they believe its feasible, it's their choice, they aren't forced to do it


----------



## Mwarren

I'm up for a game if anyone wants to play.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11793939*
> It's dead. You can add me (I don't remember if I have you) Semirhage #522. I'll start playing more after the new year.
> The only other EU active OCN member who posts here is Blinker, don't remember his character code though.


Cheers will do... just have to change my character name when I get home...

Any good Korean sounding suggestions?


----------



## Epona

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11793927*
> lol, knew that was going to be said. My point is, it's a choice to make. Do you get a mule or scan? If you've kept on making workers and have been muling with any energy you have, I think a scan is a better idea, my opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't comparing OL to scan though, just saying that with OL, if your enemy catches it, he can take it out before it reaches deep into the base for intel, with scan, no fear of that


To be honest, I think mules are much better. Terran has the slowest worker production (P has chrono, Z has larva) and so those mules are needed to stay on par with Z and P in early game. Later game, sure, go for it, otherwise, throw an SCV at them. Much better idea.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epona;11794259*
> To be honest, I think mules are much better. Terran has the slowest worker production (P has chrono, Z has larva) and so those mules are needed to stay on par with Z and P in early game. Later game, sure, go for it, otherwise, throw an SCV at them. Much better idea.


Exactly, I meant mules for the early game but once you've saturated your main, you can try throwing SCVs at them but at least with scan, they can't hide from it unless they split their buildings all over the place









Edit: The clock is ticking yks. Where the huge list of me theorycrafting on here?


----------



## CramComplex

Gah got work tonight until Wednesday night...will be on on Thursday morning and the weekend. Hopefully people are online...will try to practice a bit more this time before I face off with you guys









OT: I need to RMA my 6950 too...the second DVI port is busted...there's signal coming to the monitor but I can't somehow get it to display...oh well...RMA time...back to my HD 5750


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11794479*
> Gah got work tonight until Wednesday night...will be on on Thursday morning and the weekend. Hopefully people are online...will try to practice a bit more this time before I face off with you guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OT: I need to RMA my 6950 too...the second DVI port is busted...there's signal coming to the monitor but I can't somehow get it to display...oh well...RMA time...back to my HD 5750


Well, it's life, not much you can do. I'll try to be on Thursday morning, but, not sure tbh, since, I'm usually sleeping in early morning. If you are able to come online maybe 12ish or so, we can probably get a game or two going. I'll do my best to remember









As for the 6950, that must not be fun. I've never had to RMA before so I can only assume that it's a hassle. I thought you were getting a 6850 originally, but, nice, was the same gpu I was looking at(not same brand though). GL with the RMA


----------



## Mwarren

Going to play a few ladder games,
http://www.livestream.com/sovern


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11794670*
> Going to play a few ladder games,
> http://www.livestream.com/sovern


Nothing is happening (or is it just me)?


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11794548*
> Well, it's life, not much you can do. I'll try to be on Thursday morning, but, not sure tbh, since, I'm usually sleeping in early morning. If you are able to come online maybe 12ish or so, we can probably get a game or two going. I'll do my best to remember
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 6950, that must not be fun. I've never had to RMA before so I can only assume that it's a hassle. I thought you were getting a 6850 originally, but, nice, was the same gpu I was looking at(not same brand though). GL with the RMA


I'll be up tomorrow at around 9am as soon as I get some power-nap after 5am.
But yeah...I'm awake at that time...although I'll be tired as hell but hey...a gamers life is a gamers life









@OT: Yeah...it's a massive card and apparently I ain't hte only one with a busted DVI port...so tomorrow is RMA day or exchange day~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11794805*
> Nothing is happening (or is it just me)?


Probably hasn't started yet








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11794861*
> I'll be up tomorrow at around 9am as soon as I get some power-nap after 5am.
> But yeah...I'm awake at that time...although I'll be tired as hell but hey...a *gamers life is a gamers life*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @OT: Yeah...it's a massive card and apparently I ain't hte only one with a busted DVI port...so tomorrow is RMA day or exchange day~


I see, I'll try to hit you up then and sleep early tonight. SC2 is really wearing me down XD

Yes, a gamers life is a gamers life until you hit your 40-50s and realize that all that life has done is caused more problems when you are older







As for the 6950, surprised because it seems that there are a lot of busted DVIs, maybe shipment issue when they reached the store?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11794898*
> 
> I see, I'll try to hit you up then and sleep early tonight. SC2 is really wearing me down XD


Maybe if you spent your money you'd win more... maybe if you won more it wouldn't wear you down.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

wow... foxer'd


----------



## nlsthzn

Seems the works Internet doesn't want to give me enough bandwidth to watch live streaming.. oh well... guess I should do more work then


----------



## thiru

If you guys (Mwarren, yks and anyone else) want me to put up your streams in the OP just say so.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11794928*
> Maybe if you spent your money you'd win more... maybe if you won more it wouldn't wear you down.


Actually, I meant the staying up till 4 in the morning part, not SC2 itself







Why I can probably keep on playing match after match for a while before I feel anything XD Actually, might be a good test







I think we should have this: Choose someone to keep on playing till they give and everyone gets a turn, an endurance test








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11794940*
> wow... foxer'd


?


----------



## Sainesk

I wish the ai wasn't so silly, even insane you can make their armies just run back and forth between your bases and their bases, they never do surprise drops like an actual human might etc. (at least I haven't seen one yet)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

lol Mwarren, he's loosing to carriers


----------



## thiru

Well he lost long before the carriers came...


----------



## Mwarren

Yea I hate TvP. I only win about 25% of the time....win TvZ and TvT about 75% of the time. They still need to nerf storm. I lost that game way before carriers came....he went void rays which normally only really low level players do lol. I can outmacro toss like crazy but Terran doesn't have a mid/late game answer to toss.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11794977*
> Actually, I meant the staying up till 4 in the morning part, not SC2 itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why I can probably keep on playing match after match for a while before I feel anything XD Actually, might be a good test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we should have this: Choose someone to keep on playing till they give and everyone gets a turn, an endurance test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Mwarren got foxer'd in one of his streamed TvT


----------



## Mwarren

I'll be streaming later on tonight though guys, I'll have to look into why its flickering too.


----------



## thiru

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/24/sean-day9-plott-pc-gamer-uks-gamer-of-the-year/

Day9 PC gamer of the year!


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11795520*
> http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/24/sean-day9-plott-pc-gamer-uks-gamer-of-the-year/
> 
> Day9 PC gamer of the year!


Love Day9... almost as much as Husky







(and will always have time for HD too)...


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11795440*
> Yea I hate TvP. I only win about 25% of the time....win TvZ and TvT about 75% of the time. They still need to nerf storm. I lost that game way before carriers came....he went void rays which normally only really low level players do lol. I can outmacro toss like crazy but Terran doesn't have a mid/late game answer to toss.


lol

youve obviously never heard of marauders


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11795520*
> http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/24/sean-day9-plott-pc-gamer-uks-gamer-of-the-year/
> 
> Day9 PC gamer of the year!


Don't let BigFan see this!


----------



## thiru

Yks you want me to put your ustream on the first post of this thread?


----------



## yks

nah, not right now. thanks tho! i'll fill you in once everything is settled.


----------



## thiru

Oh ok.


----------



## ThumperSD

I'll probably be down for a few games later. I got GT5 for xmas so I will be playing that for now. My PS3 has been getting dusty since SC2.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11795440*
> Yea I hate TvP. I only win about 25% of the time....win TvZ and TvT about 75% of the time. They still need to nerf storm. I lost that game way before carriers came....he went void rays which normally only really low level players do lol. I can outmacro toss like crazy but Terran doesn't have a mid/late game answer to toss.


I play zerg and I'm stuck in silver because I'm so crummy at PvZ. I'm good in other matchups. I've done very well against gold terrans and zergs I've faced, but silver Protoss owns me if the game goes longer than 12-13 minutes. Once immortals, colossi, void rays and speedzealots start appearing I can't figure out how to defend any of my expansions. I get into these ghastly losing streaks when there are lots of Protoss players logged on and looking for 1v1 action. You don't get promoted to higher leagues when you have bad losing streaks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11795834*
> lol
> 
> youve obviously never heard of marauders


Marauders are good but late game is pretty brutal for T.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11795520*
> http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/24/sean-day9-plott-pc-gamer-uks-gamer-of-the-year/
> 
> Day9 PC gamer of the year!


Awesome!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11795994*
> I'll probably be down for a few games later. I got GT5 for xmas so I will be playing that for now. My PS3 has been getting dusty since SC2.


Hope you got a wheel! Did you beat the Uncharted games yet? God of War's?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11795834*
> lol
> 
> youve obviously never heard of marauders


Ummm.....I open with marauders thank you very much. Marauders are a T1/1.5 unit and I use them throughout the game. The problem is that there's no answer to collosi/storm a long speedlots. The only thing you can do is end the game before those units hit the ground or try to tech up to banshees which is very risky because if the P is any good they will hit you way before you have enough banshees do do damage.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11796422*
> Hope you got a wheel! Did you beat the Uncharted games yet? God of War's?


I may get the Logitech wheel one day but I have no room for it in my bedroom. Beat both Uncharted games (my fav PS3 games). I never really liked GoW though but Ive played it for a bit. GoW3 has great graphics and story but the gameplay is so repetitive.

I'll be getting Black Ops too only because my friends are making me to get it. Peer pressure =P. I dont plan on playing these games too seriously though.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11796593*
> Ummm.....I open with marauders thank you very much. Marauders are a T1/1.5 unit and I use them throughout the game. The problem is that there's no answer to collosi/storm a long speedlots. The only thing you can do is end the game before those units hit the ground or try to tech up to banshees which is very risky because if the P is any good they will hit you way before you have enough banshees do do damage.


If you already have a starport with a reactor, double pump vikes if you scout colossus. Against storm you have to split your units apart and send them in small groups to force storms. You dont want to ball up everything together in late game vs protoss.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11796631*
> I may get the Logitech wheel one day but I have no room for it in my bedroom. Beat both Uncharted games (my fav PS3 games). I never really liked GoW though but Ive played it for a bit. GoW3 has great graphics and story but the gameplay is so repetitive.


I like the GoW game play and there are plenty of combos to be done. The HD collection was some of the best money I ever spent ( since I long since sold my PS2 ). I also need to go back and get the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus HD collection when it drops because I missed those as well.

Still don't have another PS3 yet though.... grrr.


----------



## ThumperSD

I think there will be a price cut to $250 pretty soon. What happened to your old PS3?


----------



## yks

Mwarren, stream more games.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11791580*
> I will try and work on that. But I get into typing mode, T_T but hey! battles are the only important thing!
> 
> BigFan ended up getting like 9 BLs and 4 Ultras and won, but still almost lost.
> 
> You should've got on some NA account and played with us Blinker!


I'm thinking about it. Maybe after new year I will get a NA copy. Unfortunately I usually play at different times because of timezone difference. Yesterday I stayed to 4 am to watch BigFan.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11792872*
> XD Maybe in your book it was, went down as horrible in mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've seen in the GSL, they just talk about the player or some random stuff at the start since most matches have generic starts then they start focusing on what each is building and what the possible strat from it is along with any engagements or harass, etc.... Like someone starts building 2-3 rax, then you can say he's powering or making of drones, power droning, etc....


There's a lot to talk about all the time like map, possible and actual builds, tech, armies, positions, food count etc. I don't expect him to be another Day 9 (who apart from being a great coach giving invaluable advice to players of all levels in his excellent dailies, which everyone should watch, is also one of the best commentators) or Husky, but he could at least move the camera sometimes, check what scouts are doing, what is being build in both bases, switch between resources and production tabs etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11795440*
> Yea I hate TvP. I only win about 25% of the time....win TvZ and TvT about 75% of the time. They still need to nerf storm. I lost that game way before carriers came....*he went void rays which normally only really low level players do* lol. I can outmacro toss like crazy but Terran doesn't have a mid/late game answer to toss.


Like oGsMC.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11796715*
> I think there will be a price cut to $250 pretty soon. What happened to your old PS3?


I've had 3, which I sold one, then replaced, sold one, replaced, ect. Got laid off a couple timed and so on. They were all BC models too.


----------



## Epona

Hey guys, I'm looking for some people to play team games with... anyone down? There's a vent server we can use to communicate (preferred if you have vent).


----------



## DoomDash

LOL someone said they found a replay of me being casted in german. Pretty typical *****ing from me giving the circumstances. I think I actually put the replay to this game up on here ( bigfan you watched it ).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUUc9a7tLFY[/ame]


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11794898*
> Probably hasn't started yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see, I'll try to hit you up then and sleep early tonight. SC2 is really wearing me down XD
> 
> Yes, a gamers life is a gamers life until you hit your 40-50s and realize that all that life has done is caused more problems when you are older
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 6950, surprised because it seems that there are a lot of busted DVIs, maybe shipment issue when they reached the store?


RAWR!!! I will practice!!!

@OT: prolly...pm'ed another member here at OCN, had the same problem with me...so yeah it's going to the RMA dept. tomorrow at 10:30am, hopefully a replacement unit or same GPU different brand is what i'm gunning for

*goes off to work*


----------



## EmMure

doom is that really u speaking german?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11798335*
> doom is that really u speaking german?


Nah, some German dude casted his game.


----------



## Katana

Phooey, been losing a lot of practice league matches still. I just can't seem to micro fast enough; not even in combat, little things like remembering to continue building marines, continue building SCVs, continue building supply depots, I just can't be thinking of 15 things at once. All these things seem kind of obvious when I'm looking at it afterwards, but even in a replay there's no ONE thing I'm doing wrong; I'm just not playing nearly fast enough. Might stop playing the game entirely if this keeps up, as it's obvious I'm not improving.


----------



## nlsthzn

I feel your pain... when I look at the APM bar I have noticed mine changes to "Actions per Month" sometimes...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

don't care about micro. worry about macro instead.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epona;11797962*
> Hey guys, I'm looking for some people to play team games with... anyone down? There's a vent server we can use to communicate (preferred if you have vent).


I added you and I have vent.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11798589*
> don't care about micro. worry about macro instead.


...only thing worst than my micro, is my macro T_T... still love the game, Bronze4Life!


----------



## DoomDash

I wish I spoke german







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11797965*
> LOL someone said they found a replay of me being casted in german. Pretty typical *****ing from me giving the circumstances. I think I actually put the replay to this game up on here ( bigfan you watched it ).
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUUc9a7tLFY


Maybe it was someone on this forum.


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I feel your pain... when I look at the APM bar I have noticed mine changes to "Actions per Month" sometimes...


LOL nice !!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Mwarren got foxer'd in one of his streamed TvT


oh, thought it was about what doom wrote









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


lol

youve obviously never heard of marauders


Maraduers are T1/T1.5 units. While they are good units, a chargelots+colossi army will demolish them pretty easily especially if you are able to ff behind them to prevent kiting, otherwise, you'll still win but it'll just be with more casualties









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Don't let BigFan see this!


XD He won game of the year, congrats to Day[9], not much else to say









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I'll probably be down for a few games later. I got GT5 for xmas so I will be playing that for now. My PS3 *has been getting dusty* since SC2.


As expected when SC2 hit the scene









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I play zerg and I'm stuck in silver because I'm so crummy at PvZ. I'm good in other matchups. I've done very well against gold terrans and zergs I've faced, but silver Protoss owns me if the game goes longer than 12-13 minutes. Once *immortals, colossi, void rays and speedzealots* start appearing I can't figure out how to defend any of my expansions. I get into these ghastly losing streaks when there are lots of Protoss players logged on and looking for 1v1 action. You don't get promoted to higher leagues when you have bad losing streaks.


wow, just reading that gave me a headache(bolded part). It's amazing how many tools Protoss have at their disposal, makes Z feel kinda bare XD I think their is one thing you are missing though. All those units except VRs attack ground only. My point is go for mass mutas, hit VRs and run before they engage you then go for colossi first with mutas and let your mass slings take care of the chargelots+immortals then mop up after the colossi are down









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*I like the GoW game play *and there are plenty of combos to be done. The HD collection was some of the best money I ever spent ( since I long since sold my PS2 ). I also need to go back and get the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus HD collection when it drops because I missed those as well.

Still don't have another PS3 yet though.... grrr.


If you really like GoW gameplay, you really should check out PoP. I'm thinking of installing the 2nd game myself to see how it looks and give it a run through. Maybe I'll post some pics









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'm thinking about it. Maybe after new year I will get a NA copy. Unfortunately I usually play at different times because of timezone difference. Yesterday I stayed to 4 am to watch BigFan.








*If you are able to get one, go for it. You'll be able to play with most of OCN. Most are on at varying times and you'll also get a chance to experience the NA ladder. I never knew I was so popular XD*

There's a lot to talk about all the time like map, possible and actual builds, tech, armies, positions, food count etc. I don't expect him to be another Day 9 (who apart from being a great coach giving invaluable advice to players of all levels in his excellent dailies, which everyone should watch, is also one of the best commentators) or Husky, but he could at least move the camera sometimes, check what scouts are doing, what is being build in both bases, switch between resources and production tabs etc.
*You are correct, he should be doing those. My main point was that they also mention some info about the player, maybe some of his background, etc.... At least, he kept track of the battles. There were a couple of times that in the GSL, a battle or two were missed because Artosis and Tasteless were talking about something else(reason I know is because I was watching minimap







).*



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


LOL someone said they found a replay of me being casted in german. Pretty typical *****ing from me giving the circumstances. I think I actually put the replay to this game up on here ( bigfan you watched it ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUUc9a7tLFY


Yes, I remember watching that, I think it was the baneling bust with the 3 rax at your entrance









Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


RAWR!!! I will practice!!!

@OT: prolly...pm'ed another member here at OCN, had the same problem with me...so yeah it's going to the RMA dept. tomorrow at 10:30am, hopefully a replacement unit or same GPU different brand is what i'm gunning for

*goes off to work*


GL with that









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Phooey, been losing a lot of practice league matches still. I just can't seem to micro fast enough; not even in combat, little things like remembering to continue building marines, continue building SCVs, continue building supply depots, I just can't be thinking of 15 things at once. All these things seem kind of obvious when I'm looking at it afterwards, but even in a replay there's no ONE thing I'm doing wrong; I'm just not playing nearly fast enough. Might stop playing the game entirely if this keeps up, as it's obvious I'm not improving.


Solution: STOP playing practice league. They encourage turtling. Just link them together as in cc-1, rax-2, etc.... then press 1, Sx2 or 3, 2, Ax2 or 3. In a little bit, do that again, then use an SCV to build depot, etc.... Really, don't give us. You can probably use stickies to remind you of this as well by placing them on your monitor's bottom









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


don't care about micro. worry about macro instead.


Yes, macro > micro, because, with macro, you army >>> his army which usually means automatic win







Of course, micro is still important and comes in handy at the higher leagues when getting that ff at the correct position makes a big difference









^^Quite possible, vdek


----------



## yks

BigFan, Blinker; I was just streaming the games for those who couldn't be *IN* the games and chatting. I wasn't trying to commentate, I was just obsing and goofing off in chat.

If I wanted to commentate, I think I'd be decent.


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan did you watch that Day9 yet? I don't want to have to resort to an intervention.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


BigFan, Blinker; I was just streaming the games for those who couldn't be *IN* the games and chatting. I wasn't trying to commentate, I was just obsing and goofing off in chat.

If I wanted to commentate, I think I'd be decent.


tbh, I haven't watch the streams, just commentating that in GSL games, they do the following ..... material to keep the listener entertained







Either way, I don't doubt your commentary skills since I haven't heard them yet









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan did you watch that Day9 yet? I don't want to have to resort to an* intervention.*


I just got home after almost freezing to death because the bus decided not to come and had to wait outside in the freezing wind with no gloves, so, can I have a break? XD
Either way, how do you plan to intervene? Not play 1vs1 against me? XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Either way, how do you plan to intervene? Not play 1vs1 against me? XD


Yes, but not just me! We are only asking you to watch two episodes ( the ones we suggested ) at least.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes, but not just me! We are only asking you to watch two episodes ( the ones we suggested ) at least.


lol, that's still not a crazy threat! If you haven't noticed, last 1vs1 we played was over a month ago. I also doubt that this will change my stance but you're welcome to try


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11800483*
> lol, that's still not a crazy threat! If you haven't noticed, last 1vs1 we played was over a month ago. I also doubt that this will change my stance but you're welcome to try


It wasn't just me talking about it







. I'll 1v1 with you when I think you have something to offer me







.

what do you mean change your stance? you said you would watch it! were you lying to me?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It wasn't just me talking about it







. I'll 1v1 with you when I think you have something to offer me







.

what do you mean change your stance? you said you would watch it! were you lying to me?


Well, it's always your choice. I never force people to play 1vs1 with me. I always offer someone a game if they are interested. As for the video, I said I'll watch the one you put up, not the last one, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Life >>> SC2 in my book


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, it's always your choice. I never force people to play 1vs1 with me. I always offer someone a game if they are interested. As for the video, I said I'll watch the one you put up, not the last one, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Life >>> SC2 in my book










Stop wasting time in this thread over day9. It's not like this thread is some how a better priority than watching 2 episodes of day9 that will tell you things you need to hear and perhaps open your mind up.

That life > SC2 argument is trash coming from the second highest poster in this thread, 95% of which would be better time spent watching day9.

Not insulting your company at all we like you but I'm just being real with ya







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Stop wasting time in this thread over day9. It's not like this thread is some how a better priority than watching 2 episodes of day9 that will tell you things you need to hear and perhaps open your mind up.

That *life > SC2 argument *is trash coming from the second highest poster in this thread, 95% of which would be better time spent watching day9.

Not insulting your company at all we like you but I'm just being real with ya







.


You guys started with day9, I didn't even mention him









I visit other forums, but, OCN is the one I visit the most. This thread being the one I visit the most on OCN because I love SC2, so, I like to hear about people's games, strats, etc.... It's pretty easy to leave the page open, do some work, come back in a while, refresh, read through page, type reply and then exit(takes less than 5 mins even with my net being slow)







Just because I'm the 2nd highest doesn't mean that life < SC2 in anyway







I just tend to respond quickly since I check the thread every once in a while as opposed to once a day









It's ok to be real with me if you like, I won't bite *yet*


----------



## DoomDash

I've just never heard of anyone intentionally holding themselves back. Blah Blah I know you want to do it on your own blah blah ( makes no sense to me ).

Let me reply to that for you:

( makes no sense *to me* ).

Yeah well I'm not you so XD.


----------



## Sainesk

Big when we gonna do game 3? can our drones and scvs be buddies and work together to mine up the map?


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks vdek for the out of the blue l4d2 steam gift







. Very cool.


----------



## Rustynails

any new on when zerg exp comes out?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11800726*
> I've just never heard of anyone intentionally holding themselves back. Blah Blah I know you want to do it on your own blah blah ( makes no sense to me ).
> 
> Let me reply to that for you:
> 
> ( makes no sense *to me* ).
> 
> Yeah well I'm not you so XD.


What's wrong with working your way to diamond on your own? Of course, I don't expect this will make sense to anyone except those who think like me







CramComplex seems to understand where I'm coming from, so, at least someone gets it XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11800762*
> Big when we gonna do game 3? can our *drones and scvs be buddies and work together to mine up the map*?


While I would love it, I doubt Kerrigan would approve XD As for game 3, whenever I'm on, just msg me or I can do that and we can have a game 3









^^No news yet. Considering this is Blizzard we're talking about, I would guess at least at the best case scenario in the summer, likely Q4 2011


----------



## yks

I don't want to get into it, but BigFan, it's already NOT on your own.

You've watched replays, talked to diamonds, heard Artosis-GSL analysis, and whatever else you've done.

So it's already not on your own.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't want to get into it, but BigFan, it's already NOT on your own.

You've watched replays, talked to diamonds, heard Artosis-GSL analysis, and whatever else you've done.

So it's already not on your own.


I know its hard to believe, but, I actually watch the GSL for the fun of it XD I can't analyze their timings because it's hard to do so when they keep on moving all over the place, but, I try to see what composition they go for or the kind of cheese that some do, etc.... I just find the games exciting, I guess tastosis helps as well









Talking to diamonds is mostly people on here with another 2-3 chance counters in custom games(haven't played a custom in a long time now). Considering this is a forum and the idea of this thread is to discuss SC2, I don't have issues with people mentioning their strats, remember it's up to me to decide whether I would try the strat or not, likewise, whether I take someone's advice.

As for replays, I mostly watch my own and see what I did wrong, where to improve and *try* to keep that in mind next time I play said race. I have watched several on here(the doom one with banes, thumper one with really good Z player, etc....) but, a couple of replays about T/P won't help me, because, I was exclusively playing Z when I watched them, so, that point is null









So, yes, it's not fully on my own because there were some outside sources, but, I've accepted that it's not 100% possible, just not interested in adding more to the list that I've already established









----------------------------------------

Had some interesting games tonight and finally had a Z player, been waiting for one for a while. Was a TvsZ on meta. He didn't expand early, instead went pool first. Went for a hellion drop(forgot about blue flame) and took out some drones, but, not a crazy amount. Decided to go around sniping OLs with 4 vikings, got 6-7 of them and then I discovered he had a third









Decided to go for another drop I had in mind. 3 medivacs with some marines/marauders with stim and +1 attack. Took out a decent amount of drones, his hive and the spire which he was morphing into a great spire. I hit the wrong timing though, should've been earlier because right after I attacked, a lot of corruptors popped out so my medivacs were taken out but I was able to at least delay his tech. Went for another 2 medivacs, dropped outside his third exp, stimmed marines and with no defense, took that out right as his slings and corruptors attacked.

Started to pump out vikings from a couple of starports that I added on and took my long needed exp(







), but, at least it was getting closer to even bases and since I pooled my energy, was able to drop 4 mules onto my exp. As I soon discovered, it was still an uphill battle after that. He decided to morph BLs in my base(what a bad idea XD) at which point I targetted them and defended against the first attack with a combo of vikings+stimmed marines, but, I lost to the next because he decided to morph outside this time, lol.

Moral of the game: Attack much much earlier than I did, get a quick exp (forgot about 2 rax FE otherwise would've tried it) and go mass marines against a mostly mass corruptor/couple BLs with some slings thrown in(some bunkers with marines and SCVs to repair, marauders to block space between bunkers and PF will take care of those easy).
Guess you do learn new things everyday XD


----------



## DoomDash

2 rax takes a lot of practice to make work well... but I suppose in Silver anything goes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


2 rax takes a lot of practice to make work well... but I suppose in *Silver anything goes*.


Pretty much. I need to start the practice while I can afford to lose games because of messing up my macro otherwise it's gonna be difficult to practice in a higher league


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Pretty much. I need to start the practice while I can afford to lose games because of messing up my macro otherwise it's gonna be difficult to practice in a higher league










At first I was terrible at it, but I've come a long way IMO. I still mess it up occasionally .... some day I'll have it down perfect. It's won me many games though







. Same with fancy bunker play heh.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


At first I was terrible at it, but I've come a long way IMO. I still mess it up occasionally .... some day I'll have it down perfect. It's won me many games though







. Same with fancy bunker play heh.


Well, I assume it's no easy task, but, I love practicing micro so I'm sure I'll catch onto it soon enough. My micro isn't that terrible atm, just needs to be refined a lot more







As you can see, I'm pretty optimistic









Curious, anyone here play any games other than SC2? Confident that I'll hear BC2, L4D2, etc.... I think it would be interesting to have a coop game or some deathmatch game with everyone(BC2), would be nice to blow some steam


----------



## DoomDash

Meh @ most PC games these days. I have a bunch but none I really like.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Meh @ most PC games these days. I have a bunch but none I really like.


You should be putting that GTX580 to good use. SC2 isn't stressful enough for it







I think crysis 2 will be pushing it as well as the newest metro(whenever it comes out). BC2 would be another although it won't push it much


----------



## DoomDash

Well you know Crysis 2 is on the list.... I'm half way through 1 lol. I hear it gets lame once the Aliens come.

Also haven't finished Metro.

Or Black Ops....


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thanks vdek for the out of the blue l4d2 steam gift







. Very cool.


I have one more I believe. Maybe we should have a little mini-OCN tournament for it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well you know Crysis 2 is on the list.... I'm half way through 1 lol. I hear it gets lame once the Aliens come.

Also haven't finished Metro.

Or Black Ops....



I've got a lot of games like that. Only a few keep me interested enough to play through though. Blast you steam deals. SCII is one of those games obviously, love it.


----------



## poroboszcz

Idra is streaming. Zergs should watch.

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IdrA


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11803709*
> Idra is streaming. Zergs should watch.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IdrA


:O Streaming while I'm at work, not fair. I'll see if I can sneak some viewing in though.

edit: :O He did this really cool evo chamber block of his ramp at the bottom on metaloplis. Really interesting. If it pops you get 5 broodlings for 75 cost. He fast expands in ZvZ so much... 3 ZvZs in a row as well, lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11803818*
> :O Streaming while I'm at work, not fair. I'll see if I can sneak some viewing in though.
> 
> edit: :O He did this really cool evo chamber block of his ramp at the bottom on metaloplis. Really interesting. If it pops you get 5 broodlings for 75 cost. He fast expands in ZvZ so much... 3 ZvZs in a row as well, lol.


You know about the broodlingbust right?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11801785*
> Well, I assume it's no easy task, but, I love practicing micro so I'm sure I'll catch onto it soon enough. My micro isn't that terrible atm, just needs to be refined a lot more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, I'm pretty optimistic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious, anyone here play any games other than SC2? Confident that I'll hear BC2, L4D2, etc.... I think it would be interesting to have a coop game or some deathmatch game with everyone(BC2), would be nice to blow some steam


I like to play Counter Strike Source (been playing since release) besides SC2. Not many games can hold my attention, there's a lot of lackluster games out there now a days.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11804032*
> You know about the broodlingbust right?


Yah of course, I like toying around with it in ZvZs.


----------



## thiru

BC2, Killing Floor, BF2, Borderlands, L4D2... lots of BC2 though.
Just bought NWN2, hoping to find people to co-op with.

If you click on my Tbag link in my sig, it's a thread for a bunch of us OCNers who play together on our Ventrilo server. Mainly BC2 and team SC2 (though you'll find some who will 1v1 like Nevaziah or me) though.


----------



## poroboszcz

Btw, here's another cool SC2 app to have. It has a list of all current streams (including some that are not listed on TL) and a calendar with upcoming events.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166114


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11804123*
> Btw, here's another cool SC2 app to have. It has a list of all current streams (including some that are not listed on TL) and a calendar with upcoming events.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166114


Woah that's pretty sweet


----------



## poroboszcz

I have a question for you guys. I'm currently applying for a work placement as a part of my Uni course. As I'm doing compsci these are mainly IT positions, some of them in gaming industry. There are some 'behavioral' questions on the applications, like 'Give an example situation which shows your Self Motivation and Drive to Succeed'.

Do you think mentioning, among other things, being competitive SC2 diamond league player would be a good idea?







Or can it be considered too immature or unprofessional?


----------



## Mwarren

I don't see why not, instead of using the term diamond just say you're in the top 5% percentile or whatever percentile that you fit in.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11804315*
> I have a question for you guys. I'm currently applying for a work placement as a part of my Uni course. As I'm doing compsci these are mainly IT positions, some of them in gaming industry. There are some 'behavioral' questions on the applications, like 'Give an example situation which shows your Self Motivation and Drive to Succeed'.
> 
> Do you think mentioning, among other things, being competitive SC2 diamond league player would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or can it be considered too immature or unprofessional?


I would never do that, but that's me and I'm a mechanical engineer. When I'm applying for a position I'm expected to be very professional and to show the depth of my knowledge in my field. Something like being a top level player in Starcraft wouldn't realy be understood by most people unless the person interviewing is a big gamer or you're in Korea(worst korea).


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11804315*
> I have a question for you guys. I'm currently applying for a work placement as a part of my Uni course. As I'm doing compsci these are mainly IT positions, some of them in gaming industry. There are some 'behavioral' questions on the applications, like 'Give an example situation which shows your Self Motivation and Drive to Succeed'.
> 
> Do you think mentioning, among other things, being competitive SC2 diamond league player would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or can it be considered too immature or unprofessional?


If you know the person who's reading the application and think it's appropriate, yes, otherwise no. Too unprofessional still.


----------



## poroboszcz

You're probably right. I think about SC2 too much and fail to realize that SC2 won't be any different for a potential employer than CS:S, Wii Sports or even WoW. Maybe will just mention e-sports in hobbies.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11804123*
> Btw, here's another cool SC2 app to have. It has a list of all current streams (including some that are not listed on TL) and a calendar with upcoming events.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166114


Is that a phone app?

edit that app is very cool

Here's a question

how to defend mid game counters when they go one base all in and you are on two base.

hmm.. i guess that's not a specific enough question. If I can find a replay of it I'll post it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11804686*
> Is that a phone app?
> 
> edit that app is very cool
> 
> Here's a question
> 
> how to defend mid game counters when they go one base all in and you are on two base.
> 
> hmm.. i guess that's not a specific enough question. If I can find a replay of it I'll post it.


How to survive one base all-ins that happen just after you spent 400 minerals on an expansion?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11804686*
> Is that a phone app?
> 
> edit that app is very cool
> 
> Here's a question
> 
> how to defend mid game counters when they go one base all in and you are on two base.
> 
> hmm.. i guess that's not a specific enough question. If I can find a replay of it I'll post it.


It also depends on a map and a matchup, but generally either expand really fast, so you'll have econ advantage when the attack comes or delay your expansion when you scout an all-in coming.

If you plan to expand anyway try to keep them in base with void ray/mutas/banshee.

If you have to defend and you're outnumbered, use your workers at the front of your army. Replay would help though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11801906*
> Well you know Crysis 2 is on the list.... I'm half way through 1 lol. I hear it gets lame once the Aliens come.
> 
> Also haven't finished Metro.
> 
> Or Black Ops....


XD I loved the aliens, it was nice to have a reason for speed and dodging them was fun, lol. I also loved the aliens in FC, thought they added depth into the gameplay because you had to make sure to get the timing right(jump right before he does) otherwise you'll lose







Haven't played metro myself but will be doing so, once I get a copy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11804315*
> I have a question for you guys. I'm currently applying for a work placement as a part of my Uni course. As I'm doing compsci these are mainly IT positions, some of them in gaming industry. There are some 'behavioral' questions on the applications, like 'Give an example situation which shows your Self Motivation and Drive to Succeed'.
> 
> Do you think mentioning, among other things, being competitive SC2 diamond league player would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or can it be considered too immature or unprofessional?


I think it would be unprofessional, possibly immature, not sure about that part. I mean you are applying to a job in the IT field, you need to demonstrate your abilities, show them that 'you get it'. Of course, SC2 still shows dedication and motivation but gaming is frown upon and could cost you. Better to play it safe, although, you can indicate SC2 or e-sports in your interests


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11804686*
> Is that a phone app?
> 
> edit that app is very cool
> 
> Here's a question
> 
> how to defend mid game counters when they go one base all in and you are on two base.
> 
> hmm.. i guess that's not a specific enough question. If I can find a replay of it I'll post it.


Well as T I would have to suggest bunkering up at your choke and hotkeying workers to repair your bunkers, set them to auto repair. As Zerg you're going to want to lay down spines and make an extra queen or two, possible spores if you scout that they went heavy air. Most P players use sentrys to forcefield or lay down canons.


----------



## Katana

If you're trying to go towards the game industry, too much focus on your SC2 play could be detrimental to certain employers. Obviously, people like RPG developers and Blizzard themselves would find it a good thing, but games like Starcraft 2 are not for beginning players, which is generally what you need to focus on when you're a beginning designer; be able to make a small game that has one or two simple but fun game mechanics (versus Starcraft's 87+ mechanics). Plus, there is an increasing trend towards casual games, and as many PC players have lamented, console games are getting easier and easier. That's for a reason; to draw in new players, they have to be able to play it without throwing the controller. That sort of game is much further from SC2.

No problem with continuing to play SC2 as much as you like, but as others have said, the important thing is having the skills to create games. If you do want to talk about games you play, don't just say you enjoy them, look at them from a designer's perspective (I like the way X encourages players to Y, which ultimately makes the game more fun) or even think of a creative solution to a common issue in the game. (I don't like how void rays dominate everyone. This could be solved by creating a button that automatically destroys all void rays in the map! durr)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11805108*
> (I don't like how void rays dominate everyone. This could be solved by creating a button that *automatically destroys all void rays* in the map! durr)


OP! OP!! OP!!!


----------



## Katana

Well it could be balanced by a building that turns off the other player's controls entirely, so he can't press the button (or do anything)


----------



## thiru

It could be balanced if all pylons could fire and charge up like the one in the void ray.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11805419*
> It could be balanced if all pylons could fire and charge up like the one in the void ray.


XD
^---- protoss player talking, hmm, makes sense now


----------



## vdek

Woo, just ordered this:









Going to get a Terran/Protoss one later on.


----------



## Epona

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11804111*
> BC2, Killing Floor, BF2, Borderlands, L4D2... lots of BC2 though.
> Just bought NWN2, hoping to find people to co-op with.
> 
> If you click on my Tbag link in my sig, it's a thread for a bunch of us OCNers who play together on our Ventrilo server. Mainly BC2 and team SC2 (though you'll find some who will 1v1 like Nevaziah or me) though.


Not to pull a post from two pages ago... but I play 1v1s too.







I just beat Nevaziah the other day.







We should play sometime.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epona;11806186*
> Not to pull a post from two pages ago... but I play 1v1s too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just beat Nevaziah the other day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should play sometime.


I thought you stopped.
Did you play against his Z? he's way better at it than the other races.


----------



## Allenssmart

what's the best anti photon cannon unit for z?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11806462*
> what's the best anti photon cannon unit for z?


Broodlords.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11806499*
> Broodlords.


Followed by banelings.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11806156*
> Woo, just ordered this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to get a Terran/Protoss one later on.


hmm, I think I got one of those when I purchased SC2, not sure what the symbol on it was, should find out








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11806531*
> Followed by banelings.


Roaches aren't bad at tanking either, but, I think BLs and banes are better


----------



## BigFan

@Doom http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/28/uncharted-3-gameplay-footage/#continued
Watching that, it's sooo much like POP(jumps, etc....). In effect, the difference is that POP has a sword which I find much cooler XD and a combat system that gives you an endless variety of combos, but, uncharted 3 still looks and plays well nevertheless









@CramComplex I was just reading a thread in the Nvidia or ATI section talking about CF6950 and how you can unlock them to CF6970 and when going up against SLI'd GTX580, they are better. Not sure how valid it is, I mean the comparison to the GTX580, but, the unlocking is indeed true. Prehaps, you can try this with your HD6950 after rma. It also has a bios switch so that if the flash goes wrong, you can go back to the original bios and reflash back. Of course, do it at your own risk but the results are tempting


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11807509*
> @CramComplex I was just reading a thread in the Nvidia or ATI section talking about CF6950 and how you can unlock them to CF6970 and when going up against SLI'd GTX580, they are better. Not sure how valid it is, I mean the comparison to the GTX580, but, the unlocking is indeed true. Prehaps, you can try this with your HD6950 after rma. It also has a bios switch so that if the flash goes wrong, you can go back to the original bios and reflash back. Of course, do it at your own risk but the results are tempting


Sorry I'm not going back to GREEN EVER...had bad experiences with them from my GTS 7600 to a GT 210...7600 sparked, killed my monitor (note: was using my old enermax 500w w/c I know is a VERY stable PSU) and my GT 210 frying my A8N-SLi deluxe...

[EDIT] Whops mis-read bad rant...yeah I've been reading that thread...plus the good news is that I got a replacement today, apparently I need a mini display port to VGA adapter and the card wasn't really faulty...meh...**** happens...so right now I'm debating either wait for a month to get a mDP~VGA for $13 OR get a mDP~VGA for $32 now...

Up for a game? I have like 1 hour till I continue my sleep to get up around 7pm to get ready for werk~


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11807509*
> @Doom http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/28/uncharted-3-gameplay-footage/#continued
> Watching that, it's sooo much like POP(jumps, etc....). In effect, the difference is that POP has a sword which I find much cooler XD and a combat system that gives you an endless variety of combos, but, uncharted 3 still looks and plays well nevertheless


I'm sure POP's are good... I will check them out someday just already have so many games. I think I'll get them on PS3 if there is any.

Man I want Uncharted 3 so bad. I haven't seen those videos yet +1.


----------



## Katana

Just built up some confidence in 1v1 medium AIs through several victories...go me. Funnily enough, in the second one, my Protoss enemy never made a single photon cannon or observer, and hence I wiped out his base with banshees and nukes.

Having said before that I'm horrible with micro-ing build orders, and am trying to improve, should I be massively worried that I get up to 2000 minerals at a time in some games? It's partially that I beeline for rich minerals, but I do sometimes think my army looks very small for those numbers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11808103*
> 
> Having said before that I'm horrible with micro-ing build orders, and am trying to improve, should I be massively worried that I get up to 2000 minerals at a time in some games? It's partially that I beeline for rich minerals, but I do sometimes think my army looks very small for those numbers.


BigFan says 2000 minerals in the bank is fine, but 3000 is better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11807634*
> Sorry I'm not going back to GREEN EVER...had bad experiences with them from my GTS 7600 to a GT 210...7600 sparked, killed my monitor (note: was using my old enermax 500w w/c I know is a VERY stable PSU) and my GT 210 frying my A8N-SLi deluxe...
> 
> [EDIT] Whops mis-read bad rant...yeah I've been reading that thread...plus the good news is that I got a replacement today, apparently I need a mini display port to VGA adapter and the card wasn't really faulty...meh...**** happens...so right now I'm debating either wait for a month to get a mDP~VGA for $13 OR get a mDP~VGA for $32 now...
> 
> Up for a game? I have like 1 hour till I continue my sleep to get up around 7pm to get ready for werk~


lol. I was an ATI fan when they were Canadian but have since decided to go for the better price to performance product. I know that I used to love ATI's IQ and thought it was better than Nvidia but haven't seen their IQ in a while, so, can't comment on that anymore.

Nice with the fast replacement, although it was the same XD That thread is definitely interesting







Sorry, didn't notice the 1 hour till sleep thing, otherwise, I might've tried to get on(not sure how net was back then).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11808103*
> Just built up some confidence in 1v1 medium AIs through several victories...go me. Funnily enough, in the second one, my Protoss enemy never made a single photon cannon or observer, and hence I wiped out his base with banshees and nukes.
> 
> Having said before that I'm horrible with micro-ing build orders, and am trying to improve, should I be massively worried that I get up to 2000 minerals at a time in some games? It's partially that I beeline for rich minerals, but I do sometimes think my army looks very small for those numbers.


Well, I try to keep it down as much as possible and have gotten slightly better but once I grab a second exp, I find my spending is just bad. I've ended games with 7k minerals and 2k gas before XD Just throw down more rax, hatcheries, gateways, pylons, depots, OLs, etc.... whenever that happens. Other than that, of course, try to get all upgrades among other things









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11808034*
> I'm sure POP's are good... I will check them out someday just already have so many games. I think I'll get them on PS3 if there is any.
> 
> Man I want Uncharted 3 so bad. I haven't seen those videos yet +1.


Watch those videos! Not bad for gfx and seems like a game I would like, too bad buying a ps3 just for one game isn't a good idea to me at least and doesn't help we got a wii about 3 weeks ago









As for POP, up to you if you ever decide to check them, mostly thought that it would be something you'll like(similar to uncharted, possibly GOW). I'll see if I can record some video or at least some screenshots once I reinstall the 2nd one








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11808163*
> BigFan says 2000 minerals in the bank is fine, but 3000 is better.


Well, didn't I mention I get interest in the form of never having to ever grab an exp since I have more than enough to finish my games? XD


----------



## DoomDash

Plenty of other awesome exclusives on PS3







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11808926*
> Plenty of other awesome exclusives on PS3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Still not enough to get one considering I just upgraded my gpu/psu and recently bought a wii. Possibly in the future


----------



## DoomDash

Trade the Wii







. Just download dolphin ....

Wii is pretty bad IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11809287*
> Trade the Wii
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Just download dolphin ....
> 
> Wii is pretty bad IMO.


dolphin? Wii isn't mine, just helped with some of the costs, whole family loves it and plays with it, so, not really up to me









Edit: Watching some Nestea against Rain games. Amazing micro by Rain, game 2, not bad game 1 but messed up his timings, should've gotten more turrets against mutas. Liked his first push though and how he was able to catch up in LT.


----------



## DoomDash

Get SSBB's. Only game on Wii I really liked so far.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11809466*
> Get SSBB's. Only game on Wii I really liked so far.


Yep, already have it. Came with the limited edition wii







Love the game, great to play with siblings or even on my own. ATM, I'm on world 3 or 4 with like 20 lives XD I'm pretty good at platformers, so, it's a snap, do love how it's laid out like smb3


----------



## Sainesk

are we going to do a get together again in SC2 sometime? that was cool with quite a few people and watching each other play, especially the lol comments when spectating









although a few team games instead of just 1v1s might have been cool too...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11809503*
> are we going to do a get together again in SC2 sometime? that was cool with quite a few people and watching each other play, especially the lol comments when spectating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> although a few team games instead of just 1v1s might have been cool too...


Well, we don't have any planned meetings, it's more of you when it happens









Edit: Amazing micro by Rain in game 3 especially against those banes


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i'm really frustrated myself. how do you kill void rays? they are just so op and they should be nerfed. i was at 200 supply, my entire army of 90 + marines were completely decimated by 11 void rays. why aren't they nerfed? they have no counter either, and they increase damage after charging up and there's no cooldown between target switches. if you micro void rays and shift attack units one by one they will kill marines in half a second. anybody wanna watch a replay and tell me what i did wrong?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No such thing as loosing to void rays. You need to understand sc2 strat better. It's more of you lost to better macro, you didn't scout or pressured enough etc.

post a replay i'm sure people here would be able to help.

Did anyone watch the new day9 video today on youtube? I lol at the youtube ad where they were trying to sell WoW gold.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11809503*
> are we going to do a get together again in SC2 sometime? that was cool with quite a few people and watching each other play, especially the lol comments when spectating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> although a few team games instead of just 1v1s might have been cool too...


We should all play some games tonight.


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11809642*
> guys i'm really frustrated myself. how do you kill void rays? they are just so op and they should be nerfed. i was at 200 supply, my entire army of 90 + marines were completely decimated by 11 void rays. why aren't they nerfed? they have no counter either, and they increase damage after charging up and there's no cooldown between target switches. if you micro void rays and shift attack units one by one they will kill marines in half a second. anybody wanna watch a replay and tell me what i did wrong?


First off, your terran? Second you gotta remember to press t.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11809679*
> No such thing as loosing to void rays. You need to understand sc2 strat better. It's more of you lost to better macro, you didn't scout or pressured enough etc.
> 
> post a replay i'm sure people here would be able to help.
> 
> Did anyone watch the new day9 video today on youtube? I lol at the youtube ad where they were trying to sell WoW gold.


i scouted him and saw 11 void rays. i massed marines to counter them and vikings too. when i attacked i had 90 marines and they were all destroyed by the void rays. my enitre army was decimated and he still had 10 void rays left. was at 200 supply , after left with 72 cause i alaso had siege tanks, vikings, marauders, too shoot the zealots.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11809642*
> guys i'm really frustrated myself. how do you kill void rays? they are just so op and they should be nerfed. i was at 200 supply, my entire army of 90 + marines were completely decimated by 11 void rays. why aren't they nerfed? they have no counter either, and they increase damage after charging up and there's no cooldown between target switches. if you micro void rays and shift attack units one by one they will kill marines in half a second. anybody wanna watch a replay and tell me what i did wrong?


Post up the replay, I'll take a look a bit later, since, I'm not on my rig atm. I have a hard time seeing 90+ marines losing to 11 VRs though. Did you upgrade, get stim, marine shields, try to engage before they charge, etc....? Marines are the counter to VRs because they aren't armored and have high dps with stim along with the fact that they are massable because no gas is required








You need to focus fire the VRs as well otherwise with the marine damage spread out over all 11 of them, you won't be able to take much down. I also have a feeling that you engaged at a choke which means that only so many marines were attacking at once so once the VRs took care of though, they were charged up and were able to keep taking the rest of the marines in stride


----------



## Thrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11809642*
> guys i'm really frustrated myself. how do you kill void rays? they are just so op and they should be nerfed. i was at 200 supply, my entire army of 90 + marines were completely decimated by 11 void rays. why aren't they nerfed? they have no counter either, and they increase damage after charging up and there's no cooldown between target switches. if you micro void rays and shift attack units one by one they will kill marines in half a second. anybody wanna watch a replay and tell me what i did wrong?


judging from your tactics and strategic measures, it would lead one to believe that you are in bronze. what you should've done was to move all your marines under the 11 void rays and the marines would shoot the void rays many times and the void rays will break really fast because the marines have 5 damage per attack and they shoot really fast. you dont make all 90+ marines shoot 1 void ray obviously so you would just a-move like all terran do and there damage would be even higher if you upgread the weapans for the marines from the engineer's bay. o also if u had 90+ marines, let's say lik 100 marines then you have lik 100 scvs or something so really your army was ok against void rays, but you fail to micro your marines. they dont do that much dmg against the marines because marines have no armoors and i want to watch the replay plz just send the replay somehow and i will analyze it further for you.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11809725*
> Post up the replay, I'll take a look a bit later, since, I'm not on my rig atm. I have a hard time seeing 90+ marines losing to 11 VRs though. Did you upgrade, get stim, marine shields, try to engage before they charge, etc....? Marines are the counter to VRs because they aren't armored and have high dps with stim along with the fact that they are massable because no gas is required


no stim, but shields upgraded. yes, 90 marines. all with combat shields. and vikings. completely obliterated.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=177054


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrive;11809737*
> judging from your tactics and strategic measures, it would lead one to believe that you are in bronze. what you should've done was to move all your marines under the 11 void rays and the marines would shoot the void rays many times and the void rays will break really fast because the marines have 5 damage per attack and they shoot really fast. you dont make all 90+ marines shoot 1 void ray obviously so you would just a-move like all terran do and there damage would be even higher if you upgread the weapans for the marines from the engineer's bay. o also if u had 90+ marines, let's say lik 100 marines then you have lik 100 scvs or something so really your army was ok against void rays, but you fail to micro your marines. they dont do that much dmg against the marines because marines have no armoors and i want to watch the replay plz just send the replay somehow and i will analyze it further for you.


oh and yes i did a move. yes i am in bronze. add me, i suck i wanna improve. you seem like a nice guy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11809748*
> no stim, but shields upgraded. yes, 90 marines. all with combat shields. and vikings. completely obliterated.
> 
> http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=177054


You need stim, really, if you go for MMM(marine,marauders, medivacs), marine shield, stim and shells are things you should research ASAP. Stim helps a lot if you are able to micro well. You should watch some of the Nestea vs Rain games I'm currently watching, you'll see how amazing his marine micro is and how it helps him out a lot


----------



## Thrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11809760*
> oh and yes i did a move. yes i am in bronze. add me, i suck i wanna improve. you seem like a nice guy.


ok hi i watch ur replay just now and u should not max out the queue for building marines because u can use those monies to be building more barracks for more marines. use ur command centurs more cause they have maxed out energy the entire game and u used lik 1 mule. u can scan more so u see wat units he has and u can counter them by making units that are good against them. you shouldnt run banshiis into the canoons because they are detectirs and can see ur units so even if u cloak u will still die and you wasted cloak money + banshiis money for nothing and u didnt even break the 1 canoon. when u pushed with ur hole army, your units did'nt atk until 1 minute later so you got owned because u werent doing anything and it looks like u were trying to break the nexus, but u did it wrong and u should just a-move ur entire army with 1 control group then group the tanks into another so you can press lik 2,e and they will siege and ur flying units into another to all attack the important unit. dont build random units for no reasons lik the banshees lol because they do nothing. also dont fight the canoons if there are like 6 of them u are just destroying urself. u have to run away after u haras the enemi and dont lost units because of the fighting with the probes. hope this is very help to u


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrive;11809929*
> ok hi i watch ur replay just now and u should not max out the queue for building marines because u can use those monies to be building more barracks for more marines. use ur command centurs more cause they have maxed out energy the entire game and u used lik 1 mule. u can scan more so u see wat units he has and u can counter them by making units that are good against them. you shouldnt run banshiis into the canoons because they are detectirs and can see ur units so even if u cloak u will still die and you wasted cloak money + banshiis money for nothing and u didnt even break the 1 canoon. when u pushed with ur hole army, your units did'nt atk until 1 minute later so you got owned because u werent doing anything and it looks like u were trying to break the nexus, but u did it wrong and *u should just a-move* ur entire army with 1 control group then group the tanks into another so you can press lik 2,e and they will siege and ur flying units into another to all attack the important unit. dont build random units for no reasons lik the banshees lol because they do nothing. also dont fight the canoons if there are like 6 of them u are just destroying urself. u have to run away after u haras the enemi and dont lost units because of the fighting with the probes. hope this is very help to u


While this has good info, you should space it out a bit, maybe point form or paragraphs. Thought I'll mention this before someone else does because I've been guilty of the same thing







Should mention he shouldn't a-move his army but you are correct about engaging those cannons, must better idea to use siege tanks and don't go banshees unless you plan to harass a bit otherwise they are easily taken down with a detector(observer, cannon, turrets, ravens, overseer and spores)


----------



## Mwarren

You need stim, if you saw him going all VR's you should have pushed into his base when stim was complete, got a double ebay, max upgrades and turrets around your base.


----------



## DoomDash

If you see void rays get some vikings with your MMM. Works wonders.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11809950*
> You need stim, if you saw him going all VR's you should have pushed into his base when stim was complete, got a double ebay, max upgrades and turrets around your base.


Stim is such an amazing ability, really makes marines that much more powerful in the right hands. On the other hand, if I play a TvsP, I just can't seem to hold my own against a zealot+stalker army, maybe I should go for 4-5 rax or something otherwise, more times than not, I'll get rolled even with a lot of micro on my part


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Stim is such an amazing ability, really makes marines that much more powerful in the right hands. On the other hand, if I play a TvsP, I just can't seem to hold my own against a zealot+stalker army, maybe I should go for 4-5 rax or something otherwise, more times than not, I'll get rolled even with a lot of micro on my part










Marauders + concussive shell are the answer to zeals and stalkers, some stimmed marines wouldn't hurt either with marauders. You have to kite the zealots with your marauders. Ever since I've started listening to music while playing SC2 I've been playing a lot better too. Just got done winning 4 games in a row.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11810343*
> Marauders + concussive shell are the answer to zeals and stalkers, some stimmed marines wouldn't hurt either with marauders. You have to kite the zealots with your marauders. Ever since I've started listening to music while playing SC2 I've been playing a lot better too. Just got done winning 4 games in a row.


Yes, that's the answer. Thing is, I go for 3 rax(2 tech labs+reactor) and pump out marauders and marines getting shells first, then either stim or shields depending on ratio. I think the problem is that marines easily die to a zealot+stalker army and I usually have the same if not a higher amount of marines to marauders, so, I think it's more of a supply issue and less marauders than optimal


----------



## Sainesk

anyone else getting different amount of matches played on battle.net profile view (like in my sig) and in game?

it says i've done 207 coop matches whereas in game I get 180 something...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, that's the answer. Thing is, I go for 3 rax(2 tech labs+reactor) and pump out marauders and marines getting shells first, then either stim or shields depending on ratio. I think the problem is that marines easily die to a zealot+stalker army and I usually have the same if not a higher amount of marines to marauders, so, I think it's more of a supply issue and less marauders than optimal










TvP you want more marauders unless they go immortals. 3 rax is good but I found a much better build order TvP. Try going 2 rax, 1 tech 1 reactor, get concussive, stim, then factory, starport, reactor on factory, switch factory with starport and make 2 medivacs, and do some drops in their base while pushing up their ramp with whatever units you have. I've been winning a lot of my TvP's doing this a lone. Constant pressure to keep sentry count low helps a lot too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


TvP you want more marauders unless they go immortals. 3 rax is good but I found a much better build order TvP. Try going 2 rax, 1 tech 1 reactor, get concussive, stim, then factory, starport, reactor on factory, switch factory with starport and make 2 medivacs, and do some drops in their base while pushing up their ramp with whatever units you have. I've been winning a lot of my TvP's doing this a lone. Constant pressure to keep sentry count low helps a lot too.


True indeed. I've been going 3 rax and starport with a reactor with 2 medivacs


----------



## Allenssmart

any other terran players out there that wanna add me?

i need a tutor, someone to get me into higher leagues than bronze. i feel like i have the potential, just need an arrow to the right direction. thanks!

zombiehunter
711


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


True indeed. I've been going 3 rax and starport with a reactor with 2 medivacs










Yea those medivac drops are the key to TvP. No wonder why I've been having problems with TvP all of that time lol!.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


True indeed. I've been going 3 rax and starport with a reactor with 2 medivacs










Yea those medivac drops are the key to TvP. No wonder why I've been having problems with TvP all of that time lol!. TvP feels easier than TvZ now, as long as it doesn't go into the mid/late game.


----------



## EmMure

i need u bigfan haha


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


You need stim, really, if you go for MMM(marine,marauders, medivacs), marine shield, stim and shells are things you should research ASAP. Stim helps a lot if you are able to micro well. You should watch some of the Nestea vs Rain games I'm currently watching, you'll see how amazing his marine micro is and how it helps him out a lot










Lol @ Rain's amazing "micro"....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


any other terran players out there that wanna add me?

i need a tutor, someone to get me into higher leagues than bronze. i feel like i have the potential, just need an arrow to the right direction. thanks!

zombiehunter
711


http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/

The best arrow.


----------



## DoomDash

You aren't allowed to recommend episodes I recommended first! BigFan go watch now, gogogogo.

I play T but I'm no good.


----------



## yks

!! Your recommendation was for BigFan, mine's for Allen. So it's allowed.

Doom's no good @ T, but he would be a horrible teacher regardless - too much bias.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Doom's no good @ T, but he would be a horrible teacher regardless - too much bias.


Yeah I'm def biased towards Zerg.


----------



## Allenssmart

omg im so mad. i just lost by one hatchery. i ran 13 battlecruiers into the zergs base and he ran 20 roaches and 10 mutas into my base. he killed off all my buildings and i still had 13 battlecruisers left. if i had killed that last hatchery within a few seconds i would have won. i should have stayed back and defended.


----------



## poroboszcz

The more I'm watching HuK's stream the more I'm getting convinced that proxy 2 gate is a the best PvP strategy at the top of Korean ladder, closely followed by 4 gate. Weird. Last time I used it in a tourney I was called a total noob.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


i need u bigfan haha


lol, going on now









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Lol @ Rain's amazing "micro"....


What was wrong with Rain's micro? I thought it was amazing, maybe you didn't. Did you even watch the first game, not taking into account the ones where 3 rax'd? He came back from a horrible position but then messed it up otherwise he was doing great against Nestea









The only person on here that I've seen that can do some similar micro(not same level obviously and still more to improve) would be doom when I watched his game against Masterlaw on Meta. Using 8 marines, he was able to take down a ton of zlings before masterlaw was able to get a surround









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


omg im so mad. i just lost by one hatchery. i ran 13 battlecruiers into the zergs base and he ran 20 roaches and 10 mutas into my base. he killed off all my buildings and i still had 13 battlecruisers left. if i had killed that last hatchery within a few seconds i would have won. i should have stayed back and defended.


Why not attack his army instead of base or build turrets at least for mutas or something?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


The more I'm watching HuK's stream the more I'm getting convinced that proxy 2 gate is a the best PvP strategy at the top of Korean ladder, closely followed by 4 gate. Weird. Last time I used it in a tourney I was called a total noob.










Better than being called a cheeser XD


----------



## yks

Just a heads up for all my OCN folk.

Sometime after the new years, probably past the 3rd or something:

After the success of the last gathering, I'll try to organize some more games for those wanting to join our little group like last time.

I'm trying to think of more for us to do than just plain ol' challenges. I was thinking KOTH, but with the wide-range of skill in the group, I don't know how much fun that'll be. If you have any suggestions, let me know.


----------



## Allenssmart

i guess i didn't know the win game conditions. i thought if i still had army units i couuld not lose. guess not. its structures. i am facepalming so hard right now. i should have yamaoto cannoned all those roaches and sent them towards his base. i can't believei lost with 13 bcruisers. WOW. i'm dumb


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Bigfan you switched to terran?

Here's a replay i'd like some comment on. My biggest problem is defending the counter attack after early pressure with zealot and stalker(s). In this game, I (Mathieu) won but only by a counter attack. He came at me after my initial attack and kept me there.

I'm having trouble knowing when to build more unit producing structures and when to build units.

(P)mathieu_VS_(P)akfortyseven.sc2replay]replay


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I'm trying to think of more for us to do than just plain ol' challenges. I was thinking KOTH, but with the wide-range of skill in the group, I don't know how much fun that'll be. If you have any suggestions, let me know.


4v4 max army of scvs/drones/probes







lets see some epic worker micro...


----------



## Mwarren

How about you start off with 1v1's, first place and second place team up in a 2v2 vs the top 2 in the losers bracket (you still play matches even if you lost to determine the top 2 in losers bracket to team up in the 2v2 finals). That way pretty much everyone will be playing even if you lost up until the semi finals/finals.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just a heads up for all my OCN folk.

Sometime after the new years, probably past the 3rd or something:

After the success of the last gathering, I'll try to organize some more games for those wanting to join our little group like last time.

I'm trying to think of more for us to do than just plain ol' challenges. I was thinking KOTH, but with the wide-range of skill in the group, I don't know how much fun that'll be. If you have any suggestions, let me know.


Would be nice, I find nights work best for me, as much as I hate staying up late







I don't mind KOTH either, but, not sure about other members









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


i guess i didn't know the win game conditions. i thought if i still had army units i couuld not lose. guess not. its structures. i am facepalming so hard right now. i should have yamaoto cannoned all those roaches and sent them towards his base. i can't believei lost with 13 bcruisers. WOW. i'm dumb


It's happens, no biggie, just makes sure not to make the same mistake again









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Bigfan you switched to terran?

Here's a replay i'd like some comment on. My biggest problem is defending the counter attack after early pressure with zealot and stalker(s). In this game, I (Mathieu) won but only by a counter attack. He came at me after my initial attack and kept me there.

I'm having trouble knowing when to build more unit producing structures and when to build units.

(P)mathieu_VS_(P)akfortyseven.sc2replay]replay


nope, I've just moved to random from Z, so, that I get to play with all the different races, more fun that way









hmm, scouting is really the key. I mean with Z, I usually start adding in units with my droning once I get something like 7-10 drones or so on my exp. If I find that he's going to attack soon(massed a lot), then I'll stop drone production and make lots of units, etc.... With wrapgates, you can reinforce almost instanteously, great new mechanism I find. My advice is to scout, see what he's up to and if you think he's getting ready to move out, make sure to start pumping units(obviously pump out a bit beforehand, so, that you are strapped when he attacks







).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


4v4 max army of scvs/drones/probes







lets see some epic worker micro...










I think someone actually had that done before, video on youtube, can't remember who won though, all you see are workers on the screen XD

Had a TvsT on delta. Went 3 rax into hellion drop. Took out all his SCVs and then ran around the base doing some damage, opponent just left XD Of course, SC2 being a well coded game froze on me so I lost the replay. Just my luck :/


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


4v4 max army of scvs/drones/probes







lets see some epic worker micro...










SCVs are win, auto-repair.









Anyone up for some team games? I'm just playing random 3v3s atm... and I'm kinda bored. Epona #902


----------



## Allenssmart

how do i defend against a worker rush? i was playing 1v1 and the guy sent all his workers over to my base and killed my workers.







so cheap, he got here 45 seconds in the game, barely got my first supply depot out !


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Better than being called a cheeser XD


No, cheese takes skill. Nothing bad being called that.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just a heads up for all my OCN folk.

Sometime after the new years, probably past the 3rd or something:

After the success of the last gathering, I'll try to organize some more games for those wanting to join our little group like last time.

I'm trying to think of more for us to do than just plain ol' challenges. I was thinking KOTH, but with the wide-range of skill in the group, I don't know how much fun that'll be. If you have any suggestions, let me know.


How about small tourney? Maybe with lower and higher brackets (eg. bronze - gold / plat - diamond).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Bigfan you switched to terran?

Here's a replay i'd like some comment on. My biggest problem is defending the counter attack after early pressure with zealot and stalker(s). In this game, I (Mathieu) won but only by a counter attack. He came at me after my initial attack and kept me there.

I'm having trouble knowing when to build more unit producing structures and when to build units.

(P)mathieu_VS_(P)akfortyseven.sc2replay]replay


I watched it briefly and you just need to work on your macro. There was something wrong with your build order when just after core you had 300 spare minerals while you should have had 0 then about 6 minutes your minerals jumped to 1000. It's the fundamental mistake and something you should work on before anything else. If you have a problem microing and macroing at the same time just don't engage and focus on smoothly executing your BO. For robo play you need the second gas early, usually just as the core finishes. Also you stopped making probes at some point, which you shouldn't.

As for PvP you should do 3 gate robo (or 4 gate), rather than 2 gate robo. The reason being that the extra gate makes you safer against 1 base all-ins like 4 gate or blink stalkers. The defensive version of this build is 3 gates, then robo (not hard to guess), while the more aggressive one is 1 gate, robo, 2 more gates. The aim of the second one is to get colossus faster and attack, usually once you have 2. With the first one you usually just expand after colo + range, depending on what you scout. There's more to the matchup, but I think just getting your macro right is the most important thing for now.

So to answer you question, you just need to focus on spending all your money. There's nothing wrong with getting even 5 gates on one base if you can't macro efficiently out of 3. Just spend all the money and keep making probes. Once you get this right you should aim roughly for 3 unit producing structures per nexus + tech as you just won't be able to afford more.

Edit: Also never listen to BigFan.


----------



## Epona

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


how do i defend against a worker rush? i was playing 1v1 and the guy sent all his workers over to my base and killed my workers.







so cheap, he got here 45 seconds in the game, barely got my first supply depot out !


Keep building workers, if you're terran, put autorepair SCVs on... See if you can drag him away from your minerals while still keeping a few guys mining. You'll be able to produce more. Not really sure if there is any strategy to it though...


----------



## DoomDash

KOTH is OK in my book







yks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


No, cheese takes skill. Nothing bad being called that.








*It's bad when you told the guy you wouldn't cheese him, you win with MM and he starts going off how MM is cheese, but, I agree, cheese takes some skills







*

Edit: Also never listen to BigFan.


Please tell me what I told him wrong this time *scratch head* I told him exactly what I do, make some units then make a lot more once they decide to attack my base so that I can get upgrades, more exp, saturate, etc.... and at the same time, I'm not sacrificing my army to get a better eco









Edit: ZvsT on meta, won the game easy. Guy decided to go for, wait for it, MMM, slings+blings with some mutas wiped it all out pretty fast then I moved in and he either left or gg, can't remember XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Please tell me what I told him wrong this time *scratch head* I told him exactly what I do, make some units then make a lot more once they decide to attack my base so that I can get upgrades, more exp, saturate, etc.... and at the same time, I'm not sacrificing my army to get a better eco









Edit: ZvsT on meta, won the game easy. Guy decided to go for, wait for it, MMM, slings+blings with some mutas wiped it all out pretty fast then I moved in and he either left or gg, can't remember XD


Whenever I watch your ZvT you send your banes into Thors and Marauders. Also have you magic boxed yet? It's super easy and beyond belief effective.

Did you watch that Day9 yet? I'm watching it for the fourth time.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Please tell me what I told him wrong this time *scratch head* I told him exactly what I do, make some units then make a lot more once they decide to attack my base so that I can get upgrades, more exp, saturate, etc.... and at the same time, I'm not sacrificing my army to get a better eco










You described zerg's mechanics which doesn't apply that much to protoss. Also scouting, while essential, is much less important than solid macro. In your case, scouting means that you can know what you're going to lose to in a second. Good macro means that even if you're not sure what's coming you should be safe.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Whenever I watch your ZvT you send your banes into Thors and Marauders. Also have you magic boxed yet? It's super easy and beyond belief effective.

Did you watch that Day9 yet? I'm watching it for the fourth time.


Well, I usually aim my banes if there are any thors otherwise, I don't need to aim much if it's MMM because my army is usually big enough to take them down np. Of course, I make mistake so its possible I mismicroed and as a result they hit his thors. For marauders, I usually have a lot of slings, so, they mop up the rest. You're forgetting the splash of banes and that marauders are usually near the marines, so, bonus either way.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You described zerg's mechanics which doesn't apply that much to protoss. Also scouting, while essential, is much less important than solid macro. In your case, scouting means that you can know what you're going to lose to in a second. Good macro means that even if you're not sure what's coming you should be safe.


Maybe you missed this part:
*I mean with Z*, I usually start adding in units....My advice is to scout, see what he's up to and if you think he's getting ready to move out, make sure to start pumping units(*obviously pump out a bit beforehand*, so, that you are strapped when he attacks).

I do mention that he also should pump out a bit before hand as well as make some when the army moves, how is that wrong? Yes, maybe a bit wasn't the proper term but I never mentioned that he should wait and make no units, did I? You mean you don't make any units until the army is at your steps then you decide to wrap in?







Even as Z, I start massing units as time passes and do a lot more massing once the opponent decides to attack.

I sense a stab there. You watch one game of mine where I screwed up my scouting badly and paid for it by losing because I wasn't able to have enough banes for his MMM and all of a sudden, you start to critize every single game I played? I haven't even posted 20 replays yet, some were customs so I wasn't as worried about losing for pts and others were for practice, only a handful were on the ladder where I care enough to try :/

Edit: Interesting enough, find that I get a lot of T/P since I'm going random. I get the occassional Z ever full moon, guess the system is trying to balance my number of Z games with T/P games


----------



## poroboszcz

Ok. YellowToblerone asked for advice on a replay. Scouting wasn't an issue. You could play against diamond player with a maphack and you would still lose.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, I usually aim my banes if there are any thors otherwise, I don't need to aim much if it's MMM because my army is usually big enough to take them down np. Of course, I make mistake so its possible I mismicroed and as a result they hit his thors. For marauders, I usually have a lot of slings, so, they mop up the rest. You're forgetting the splash of banes and that marauders are usually near the marines, so, bonus either way.

Maybe you missed this part:
*I mean with Z*, I usually start adding in units....My advice is to scout, see what he's up to and if you think he's getting ready to move out, make sure to start pumping units(*obviously pump out a bit beforehand*, so, that you are strapped when he attacks).

I do mention that he also should pump out a bit before hand as well as make some when the army moves, how is that wrong? Yes, maybe a bit wasn't the proper term but I never mentioned that he should wait and make no units, did I? You mean you don't make any units until the army is at your steps then you decide to wrap in?







Even as Z, I start massing units as time passes and do a lot more massing once the opponent decides to attack.

I sense a stab there. You watch one game of mine where I screwed up my scouting badly and paid for it by losing because I wasn't able to have enough banes for his MMM and all of a sudden, you start to critize every single game I played? I haven't even posted 20 replays yet, some were customs so I wasn't as worried about losing for pts and others were for practice, only a handful were on the ladder where I care enough to try :/

Edit: Interesting enough, find that I get a lot of T/P since I'm going random. I get the occassional Z ever full moon, guess the system is trying to balance my number of Z games with T/P games










You don't try in practice games? You also said you play ladder for practice ( T and P )... so when do you try? Also the situations I saw your banes did nothing to the marines, or very little. You would have won lots more battles both vs that ****ty Diamond ( now Plat ) Terran, and the guy you played on here who is Terran ( cram I think ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11813388*
> Ok. YellowToblerone asked for advice on a replay. Scouting wasn't an issue. *You could play against diamond player with a maphack and you would still lose.*


I haven't watched the replay, just commented on what I do as Z and how scouting plays a role in it. That's a big assumption on your part, you have no clue what the outcome would be if I was to use a maphack against a diamond player(wouldn't because it obviously wouldn't be fair).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11813430*
> You don't try in practice games? You also said you play ladder for practice ( T and P )... so when do you try? Also the situations I saw your banes did nothing to the marines, or very little. You would have won lots more battles both vs that ****ty Diamond ( now Plat ) Terran, and the guy you played on here who is Terran ( cram I think ).


I try either way but league games have points on the line and I'm not interested in getting depromoted and losing points, so, I macro/micro even harder than customs because I have something to lose. When did I mention I play ladder to *practice* my T/P? I've been going random for a couple of weeks now and have been laddering to learn T/P and try different strats and openings. In comparison to when I started, I would say I've gotten better at the races but still have a lot more to improve especially T.

As for the banes thing, yes, I do recall that one mess up with the banes but I also recall saying oops after that, indicating that it was a mistake on my part. Not exactly sure what's your looking for here? I've also seen pro players accidently run their banes into tanks before. Game 1, Nestea vs. Rain, he ran a decent number of banes into 2 siege tanks which were apart on LT to the middle left of the towers giving Rain the chance to wipe out the rest of the slings+small bane group with his marines.

As for the guy who played Terran on here, are you talking about CalmStorm(Sainsek(sp?))? It can't be cram because I haven't posted our first game and even in that game, I was late on banes which was why I lost, not because I ran them into tanks. You've seen the game with CalmStorm from a couple of nights back, so, I'm guessing it's that. Can't remember how I messed up though, haven't watched it yet









Just finished a PvsP on LT. Great game, guy tried to hide pylon, but, I had a feeling so I searched and took it out. Decided to one base it and was able to win the game with a good timing attack. Couple of small things I messed up such as not taking out that pylon getting my units stuck on ramp and a bad ff that prevent one zealot of mine from engaging his stalkers, but, other than that, it wasn't too bad, just gonna up my probing







Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware of the limitation of the resources on one base.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/121448-1v1-protoss-lost-temple
To whoever watches it, enjoy


----------



## DoomDash

Yes it was Calm then. It was when he was in your base a couple times.

Also you didn't reply to my magic box question yet did you? Just hate to see you throw away games because you didn't feel like taking the time to learn something that's far more important than some of the others things you mention you are practicing. Against that Diamond T player you threw away 14+ Muta's to two thors in an easily winnable situation. It may seem unimportant to you but that game went on another 30 minutes and you did not finish it because of a disconnect. If you would have magic boxed you would have won it right then and there.

Well I'm just commenting on what I've seen so far, so yes just watch your banes a little more carefully from now on.

My last ladder the Terran player tried an all in SCV Marine Bunker rush to me.... it was pretty funny and failed pretty bad.


----------



## Sainesk

don't worry Big, i'm sure my Thor was very happy that he finally got some baneling love... i'm sure next time he won't be so lucky


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11813874*
> Yes it was Calm then. It was when he was in your base a couple times.
> 
> Also you didn't reply to my magic box question yet did you? Just hate to see you throw away games because you didn't feel like taking the time to learn something that's far more important than some of the others things you mention you are practicing. Against that Diamond T player you threw away *14+ Muta's to two thors* in an easily winnable situation. It may seem unimportant to you but that game went on another 30 minutes and you did not finish it because of a disconnect. If you would have magic boxed you would have won it right then and there.
> 
> Well I'm just commenting on what I've seen so far, so yes just watch your banes a little more carefully from now on.
> 
> My last ladder the Terran player tried an all in SCV Marine Bunker rush to me.... it was pretty funny and failed pretty bad.


Yes, I do recall running my banes into his thors but that was towards the end of the game, however, I don't recall what happens in my main since it was a constant struggle with him constantly bringing reinforcements









Did I really lost 14+ mutas? I recall seeing the 2 thors and flying out of there right away but don't recall losing any, hmm, need to watch that replay again. I do plan to learn magic box, but, my random is giving me much more T/P than Z atm, like maybe one Z every 5-6 games if I'm lucky(not that I need more Z than T/P games) so it's not as urgent, but, I have seen how it's done and have tried it. Far as I recall, you click in the center of the muta pack, then once they space you move them to a location behind your opponent(behind thor). When they move and then stop, they'll still keep their formation which pretty much eliminate the thor's splash damage. That's how I recall it's done at least, just haven't practiced enough to make it second nature









All SCV marine bunker rushes only works against Z and possibly P(with little stalkers) but not against T because MM both are ranged units, so, you can target his marines without having to hit the SCVs first


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11813892*
> don't worry Big, i'm sure my Thor was very happy that he finally got some baneling love... i'm sure next time he won't be so lucky


XD

Don't worry, next time there'll be roaches melting him down


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11813922*
> 
> All SCV marine bunker rushes only works against Z and possibly P(with little stalkers) but not against T because MM both are ranged units, so, you can target his marines without having to hit the SCVs first


This is why people say not to listen to you. That rush will work, and I can promise it would work against your Terran. If it wasn't an FFA I would have won with a single 3 marine rush ( with reinforcements ) against you on Delta that one FFA. If you recall I've warned about how weak your Terran is early many times, even to things like marine rushes. You under estimate them if you believe what you said. A normal Terran player who didn't understand what he saw @ this Terrans player's base would have lost almost guaranteed. I saw no gas for a long time, so I knew something was coming and I threw down 2 rax ( most Terrans do 1 rax and tech).

So yes, this marine / scv / bunker rush would work against a lot of people, but really only against the people who don't know something is up by the lack of gasing.

Also about your Terran early game you have a bunch of problems. You either go marine heavy with no bunker or block, or you do bad queuing early. I know my queueing is not perfect either but only when it's in a huge long match where I'm pushing / microing . You do it even with out pushing ( I've witnessed you lose games to vdek like this ). So just a heads up to get marauders out faster ( vs Protoss ), and marines out faster ( vs Terran ).

Haven't seen you play TvZ yet.

As for my TvP, I do 1 marine, then I get a fast tech lab, marauder asap, and shells asap ( both when tech lab is done ). You should try this. You need that fast marauder and shells vs Protoss. Also for you I suggest a wall in.


----------



## DoomDash

Since I keep discussing said game I'll share the replay its short and sweet:


----------



## thiru

I liked it better when people posted small paragraphs here.


----------



## Epona

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11814106*
> I liked it better when people posted small paragraphs here.


As opposed to novels?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11814106*
> I liked it better when people posted small paragraphs here.


I liked it better when you played this game.


----------



## thiru

Don't have a computer capable of running SC2 right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11814299*
> Don't have a computer capable of running SC2 right now.


Why not? Did I miss this?


----------



## thiru

Visiting family.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11814343*
> Visiting family.


like a boss


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11815018*
> like a Toss


Fixed.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Toss have family?

Yeah thanks for the pointers people.

Anyone watching TL stream atm? RyanNova is playing really well atm, but the taylor swift in the background kinda gives me the willies.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11813957*
> This is why people say not to listen to you. That rush will work, and I can promise it would work against your Terran. If it wasn't an FFA I would have won with a single 3 marine rush ( with reinforcements ) against you on Delta that one FFA. If you recall I've warned about how weak your Terran is early many times, even to things like marine rushes. You under estimate them if you believe what you said. A normal Terran player who didn't understand what he saw @ this Terrans player's base would have lost almost guaranteed. I saw no gas for a long time, so I knew something was coming and I threw down 2 rax ( most Terrans do 1 rax and tech).
> 
> So yes, this marine / scv / bunker rush would work against a lot of people, but really only against the people who don't know something is up by the lack of gasing.
> 
> Also about your Terran early game you have a bunch of problems. You either go marine heavy with no bunker or block, or you do bad queuing early. I know my queueing is not perfect either but only when it's in a huge long match where I'm pushing / microing . You do it even with out pushing ( I've witnessed you lose games to vdek like this ). So just a heads up to get marauders out faster ( vs Protoss ), and marines out faster ( vs Terran ).
> 
> Haven't seen you play TvZ yet.
> 
> As for my TvP, I do 1 marine, then I get a fast tech lab, marauder asap, and shells asap ( both when tech lab is done ). You should try this. You need that fast marauder and shells vs Protoss. Also for you I suggest a wall in.


Please read carefully what I wrote. I said that it wouldn't work well against a T because he can use his marines to target the opponent's marines unlike a Z whose zlings will have to engage the marines but gets blocked by SCVs or a P who has only zealots when SCV+marine all in strike. There is nothing wrong with that statement. This was considering two opponents of equal skill level. I *never* said that my T is great so that I wouldn't lose to it anywhere. Stop putting things in my mouth please because it detracts away from the point of my post.

Again, I said in my previous post that my T needs a lot of improvements because I don't make enough units and lose to a P push because I have more marines than marauders. Do I underestimate them? Maybe I do, not sure.

I don't block anymore unless it's against a Z and usually place a bunker for good measure. I queue up units that I know I'll be making because I'm going for whatever strat. I'm not playing at the pro level here and never is anyone else. I find queueing helpful in general so I plan to keep queueing units until I am able to get my timings down.

Only played one TvsZ where I lost to BLs and slings and haven't posted replay. I'll think about that TvsP method and pump more marauders but I hate walling in, so, I'll likely not do that part.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11814106*
> I liked it better when people posted small paragraphs here.


So do I. It's annoying having to write a page of response only to have someone write a line or two. I think from now on, I'm going to start ignoring posts that don't read my post and instead think it's interesting to critize my gameplay based on a couple of games they've seen.


----------



## Balsagna

^ Cool story bro's (without reading much of this thread..lol)

Anywho. I'm re-installing SC2 now. I was Platinum/Diamond in beta - I played my ranked matches and scored in Platinum when the game released.

Haven't played much of it since, so looking to get back into it! I play mostly Zerg but know multiple builds for T & P.

10min and Download should be done and we can game if anyone is interested.

Have they reset the ranks or anything since game released? Like I said, I played maybe 10games and that was it.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11817412*
> So do I. It's annoying having to write a page of response only to have someone write a line or two. I think from now on, I'm going to start ignoring posts that don't read my post and instead think it's interesting to critize my gameplay based on a couple of games they've seen.


BigFan, BigFan, BigFan... Doom loves you... A LOT

He probably wants to see you improve more than you want to improve; at a rate that's easily plausible. Why else would he reply in paragraphs (most the times), and give you links to videos (day9), and tell you of techniques (magic box), and tells you micro and macro mistakes (4k money, baneling into thors/raudders)

Makes me jealous, I wish Doom loves me like that. No-****.


----------



## thiru

Doom hates me


----------



## EmMure

**** just got alittle gay in here LOL


----------



## Balsagna

Less than 2 minutes.

Anyone wanna pway wit me? Not sexually, either.


----------



## Balsagna

Game is installing... yay. Haven't played this game since release day, lol.


----------



## Sainesk

I have a random question! (surprise, surprise)

*what race is the most exciting for you to watch playing?*

is it the race you play, or something like the least played race?

reason i'm asking is because before I got SC2 I was more excited by Protoss games (probably since they were my fave in SC1), but now that I play Terran in SC2, i'm more excited watching Terran players just because I think I might learn something new...


----------



## Balsagna

I like watching Zerg but then again, I'm a Zerg player. However, it's from watching Zerg play that sparked my interest to even play them.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11817897*
> I have a random question! (surprise, surprise)
> 
> *what race is the most exciting for you to watch playing?*
> 
> is it the race you play, or something like the least played race?
> 
> reason i'm asking is because before I got SC2 I was more excited by Protoss games (probably since they were my fave in SC1), but now that I play Terran in SC2, i'm more excited watching Terran players just because I think I might learn something new...


I like watching zerg or protoss.

But most of all, I love watching this dude:
http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii

epic lols and raging is guaranteed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11817412*
> So do I. It's annoying having to write a page of response only to have someone write a line or two. I think from now on, I'm going to start ignoring posts that don't read my post and instead think it's interesting to critize my gameplay based on a couple of games they've seen.


Because couple of games is enough. Every player makes some blunders or may just get unlucky, but you're doing the same fundamental mistakes every game. The funny thing is how much advice you give to other players while you can't employ them in your own games. All we're trying to do is to point it out to help you improve. I bet everyone hopes that our jokes will just motivate you to get better. You shouldn't take it personally or feel offended in any way. If anything you should be happy of how much support you receive here.


----------



## rhed5

Just from looking at BigFan's profile, he just hasn't played enough games. Theoreycrafting only works so far. Play more and you get better, simple.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Balsagna;11817761*
> ^ Cool story bro's (without reading much of this thread..lol)
> .....
> Have they reset the ranks or anything since game released? Like I said, I played maybe 10games and that was it.


XD Reset coming on Jan 2 with the latest patch. You can always go for the five placement matches and grind a bit till then. Can't play atm because going to be leaving my house soon enough, but, I'm down for some games later tonight








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11817769*
> BigFan, BigFan, BigFan... Doom loves you... A LOT
> 
> He probably wants to see you improve more than you want to improve; at a rate that's easily plausible. Why else would he reply in paragraphs (most the times), and give you links to videos (day9), and tell you of techniques (magic box), and tells you micro and macro mistakes (4k money, baneling into thors/raudders)
> 
> *Makes me jealous*, I wish Doom loves me like that. No-****.


XD

Thing is, while I appreciate the help, I've already heard of the different techniques, know about my problems of scouting, expanding and spending, know about day9, husky, HD, etc.... Comparing it to when I first started SC2, it's valuable info but considering I've been playing this game for half a year now, I've already read about all this stuff.

Do you have any idea of how effort I put into my posts to make sure they are concise, straight to the point and lack mistakes(as much as possible, research stats, etc....)? I can't give you a specific time because it varies, but, I can tell you that it definitely doesn't take me a minute or two to write a post in this thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11817801*
> Doom hates me


lol, well when you defected to BC2, who doesn't?







Jk, it's fine though, I understand you needed the break, starting to think I should take one








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11817824*
> **** just got alittle gay in here LOL


XD Don't look at me, I'm just getting tired of having to answer every post critizing my game with 3-4 paragraphs trying to explain or show why I said so and so which is why I decided not to anymore.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11817897*
> I have a random question! (surprise, surprise)
> 
> *what race is the most exciting for you to watch playing?*
> 
> is it the race you play, or something like the least played race?
> 
> reason i'm asking is because before I got SC2 I was more excited by Protoss games (probably since they were my fave in SC1), but now that I play Terran in SC2, i'm more excited watching Terran players just because I think I might learn something new...


What a random question
 






Exciting, hmm. Really, I don't have one. I like watching games of all races equally, all are interesting IMO. Guess this explains why I went random








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11817922*
> Because couple of games is enough. Every player makes some blunders or may just get unlucky, but you're doing the same fundamental mistakes every game. The funny thing is how much advice you give to other players while you can't employ them in your own games. All we're trying to do is to point it out to help you improve. I bet everyone hopes that our jokes will just motivate you to get better. You shouldn't take it personally or feel offended in any way. If anything you should be happy of how much support you receive here.


Sorry but I disagree. Couple of games means squat when we consider I've played over 200 games between all the 3 races and customs so far, some better than others. I still have problems in my game, but, I'm nowhere near as bad as when I first started. FYI, you don't need to be a perfect player to give advice as long as the advice you give will help and is valid. Example, don't give something like, get phenoixes for hydras kind of advice, but, immortals and stalkers for roaches is a much better advice IMO. You can't seriously tell me I need to be diamond level to give that kind of advice









Anyone else surprised at all the one basing that FD did in GSL 3? Trying to break through on LT was just hilarious XD


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11817897*
> I have a random question! (surprise, surprise)
> 
> *what race is the most exciting for you to watch playing?*
> 
> is it the race you play, or something like the least played race?
> 
> reason i'm asking is because before I got SC2 I was more excited by Protoss games (probably since they were my fave in SC1), but now that I play Terran in SC2, i'm more excited watching Terran players just because I think I might learn something new...


I never really go by race, for me, it depends on whats going on in the game or the map.

An example for maps: TvT on LT... BORINGGGG, but TvT on Scrap? Heck yeah! Abuse those rocks and short air.

An example for what's going on in the game: Two Macro-Esque players going at it with small skirmishes in between? Boringggggg. Leenock vs Clide on Shakuras? HECK YEAH.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11818136*
> Just from looking at BigFan's profile, he just hasn't played enough games. Theoreycrafting only works so far. Play more and you get better, simple.


While true, I theorycraft based on other peoples as well as my own experiences, so, it's not exactly crafting. I pretty much state what I know to be true, as in marines for VRs, try to block zerg exp with pylon/engineering bay, etc.... I do agree though, I need to play more games, need to get my T/P at least to my Z level and then get promoted to gold after that


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11818391*
> I never really go by race, for me, it depends on whats going on in the game or the map.
> 
> An example for maps: TvT on LT... BORINGGGG, but TvT on Scrap? Heck yeah! Abuse those rocks and short air.
> 
> An example for what's going on in the game: Two Macro-Esque players going at it with small skirmishes in between? Boringggggg. Leenock vs Clide on Shakuras? HECK YEAH.


hmm, I thought their first game on JB was just as exciting, if not more so because of the different drops that Clide was doing


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11818331*
> Sorry but I disagree. Couple of games means squat when we consider I've played over 200 games between all the 3 races and customs so far, some better than others.


That's not much tbh


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11818437*
> That's not much tbh


lol, it's not much, but, it's better than nothing







Idea was to show that ratio of watched to played games is pretty low


----------



## yks

So you trying to tell us that the other 100 or so games we didn't watch, you kept your money under 1k?


----------



## Sainesk

i'm sure like me Big is just waiting for the ladder reset







, I only have like 40 league games and can't be bothered working up to gold and beyond if there's going to be new placements anyway in a few days...


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11818975*
> i'm sure like me Big is just waiting for the ladder reset
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I only have like 40 league games and can't be bothered working up to gold and beyond if there's going to be new placements anyway in a few days...


Ladder reset, but you keep your MMR.

And supposedly there will be only 1 placement game just to re-league you.

So if you get Gold now, when ladder resets, it'll just be 1 game and you'll be back in Gold.

So yeah. Invalid. =P


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11818975*
> i'm sure like me Big is just waiting for the ladder reset
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I only have like 40 league games and can't be bothered working up to gold and beyond if there's going to be new placements anyway in a few days...


The ladder reset is just to get all of the inactive players off the ladder from what I've heard.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11819006*
> Ladder reset, but you keep your MMR.
> 
> And supposedly there will be only 1 placement game just to re-league you.
> 
> So if you get Gold now, when ladder resets, it'll just be 1 game and you'll be back in Gold.
> 
> So yeah. Invalid. =P


no matter if I win or lose?









well that's definitely good, If I were a diamond player i'd totally rage if I got thrown into silver or something after the new placements...


----------



## rhed5

Is the ladder reset confirmed? Blizzard said changes will come december or jan 2011 w/ chat channels, but i've never seen anything about a ladder reset although we did hear about the master and grandmaster leagues. PTR is closed so i'm assuming updates should be anytime soon.


----------



## vdek

This is how I feel watching some of you play:


----------



## Sainesk

^you missed 1 thing I stupidly did in my 2nd game against Big, I wasn't paying attention to my first base and after I mined it out all my workers were there idle for spectators only know how long...

don't worry it's not like I can get any worse, rite?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11818950*
> So you trying to tell us that the other 100 or so games we didn't watch, you kept your money under 1k?


I have no clue, since, I watch games right after winning/losing to see what I did right/wrong. That PvsP game I posted from last night, my spending was pretty good and I was less than 1k. My point was, I upload games that I found had interesting battles, etc.... even if I lose








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11819083*
> Is the ladder reset confirmed? Blizzard said changes will come december or jan 2011 w/ chat channels, but i've never seen anything about a ladder reset although we did hear about the master and grandmaster leagues. PTR is closed so i'm assuming updates should be anytime soon.


I think it's confirmed for Jan 2









@vdek XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11819250*
> ^you missed 1 thing I stupidly did in my 2nd game against Big, I wasn't paying attention to my first base and after I mined it out all my workers were there idle for spectators only know how long...
> 
> don't worry it's not like I can get any worse, rite?


Don't worry about it, unless you plan to be go to South Korea to participate in the qualifiers for GSL 4(too late now I think), having idle workers won't cause you to lose the game in the Silver league. It's definitely a problem though, but, with time and experience, you'll start to notice it more and move them to your exp in less time


----------



## DoomDash

Watch day9.


----------



## Sainesk

i've watched 2 so far (the one about what to do when your opponent expands - all in attack, or expand too/use the time wisely don't do a mix of both, and the surprise drops one - basically don't sacrifice your units during drops, retreat)

but around 1 hour long each? that guy has dedication... good thing he's not boring


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11819581*
> i've watched 2 so far (the one about what to do when your opponent expands - all in attack, or expand too/use the time wisely don't do a mix of both, and the surprise drops one - basically don't sacrifice your units during drops, retreat)
> 
> but around 1 hour long each? that guy has dedication... good thing he's not boring


You'll be better than BigFan in no time.


----------



## Mwarren

Idk I've never been much of a fan of Day9. It seems to me that he over analyzes stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11819863*
> Idk I've never been much of a fan of Day9. It seems to me that he over analyzes stuff.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11819863*
> Idk I've never been much of a fan of Day9. It seems to me that he over analyzes stuff.


That's what game analyses are usually about. Analyzing.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11819873*


What? Over analyzing can be useful if you want to be pro but it honestly just bores me to death. I remember the one daily that I watched he was talking about how much of a difference that missing the production of one scv by a few seconds can make and he kept ranting about it and showing replays trying to prove his point....I found it to be really boring.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11819932*
> That's what game analyses are usually about. Analyzing.


He goes overboard IMO. I just find him boring :/.


----------



## thiru

Well he's there to make you a better player. Not to entertain you (though IMO his videos aren't boring at all, if I like the matchup).


----------



## Allenssmart

how do you defend against a roach rush with 8 roaches like 6 minutes into the game while i only have 2 maruaders and 1 marine please help! this is the only thing i lose to now!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11820013*
> how do you defend against a roach rush with 8 roaches like 6 minutes into the game while i only have 2 maruaders and 1 marine please help! this is the only thing i lose to now!


Double bunkers plus 2 groups of scvs set to auto repair at your choke.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


how do you defend against a roach rush with 8 roaches like 6 minutes into the game while i only have 2 maruaders and 1 marine please help! this is the only thing i lose to now!


A bunker with some SCV's for repair.

I do 2 rax marine pressure, but if I see roaches I fall back, and put a bunker in between my two rax at my ramp ( I also have a command center building at this point, and another rax ). Then you just repair, and build marines from the 2 rax at your ramp, and get a tech lab at your 3rd rax for Marauders.

I also slowly tech to tanks.

1 base roach vs me = gg.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


A bunker with some SCV's for repair.

I do 2 rax marine pressure, but if I see roaches I fall back, and put a bunker in between my two rax at my ramp ( I also have a command center building at this point, and another rax ). Then you just repair, and build marines from the 2 rax at your ramp, and get a tech lab at your 3rd rax for Marauders.

I also slowly tech to tanks.

1 base roach vs me = gg.


but i thought u were supposed to wall off with supply depots instead? cause you can't lower bunkers. how do you do it??

edit: i normally wall of 1 rax 2 depots


----------



## DoomDash

I wish I had a replay on hand of a failed Roach rush attempt on me, but I don't.

But if you want to see how I lay out my base you should check out my TvZ replays ( this link shows only the TvZ's ):
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=search_submit&search=DoomDash&search_poster=&matchup_type=all&army_1=278&army_2=280&map=all&version=all&event=all&league=all&points=&search_submit=clicked&profile_name=

Also the newer the better cause I don't even do those old builds anymore ( usually ).


----------



## rhed5

Generally if zerg hasn't expanded, be very wary of what he is going to do. If you are absolutely sure he doesn't have a expo, he is coming for you with banes & lings, or roaches. Try your best to scout what he's doing. Either case I would build a bunker on top of the ramp for bane busts or the 7RR. One base zerg can't compete with one base terran so if you stop the rush, you will most likely win.


----------



## rhed5

The bunker can be placed right behind the supply depot, and should give you range to hit roaches that aree hittnig the depot/rax.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Generally if zerg hasn't expanded, be very wary of what he is going to do. If you are absolutely sure he doesn't have a expo, he is coming for you with banes & lings, or roaches. Try your best to scout what he's doing. Either case I would build a bunker on top of the ramp for bane busts or the 7RR. One base zerg can't compete with one base terran so if you stop the rush, you will most likely win.


Yep exactly. Get used to seeing Zerg's one base on Steps of War as well since most are afraid of expanding early.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, well when you defected to BC2, who doesn't?







Jk, it's fine though, I understand you needed the break, starting to think I should take one










I've been playing BC2 for the past 12 months...


----------



## Allenssmart

can somebody please give me some build orders as terran against zerg? thanks!


----------



## poroboszcz

I just played some practice games against my 2.5k zerg friend and went 0-15!!! I'm about to uninstall this game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I just played some practice games against my 2.5k zerg friend and went 0-15!!! I'm about to uninstall this game.


Why? 1.2 will make you have air control. Zerg is probably the best race right now ( IMO ) but not 15-0 good, unless he's just a better player than you.


----------



## DoomDash

Not the highest level play from this Blizzard in house tournament, but this match was fun:

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

Blinker, I feel your pain. Lets just suicide-uninstall together.


----------



## Sainesk

I just watched the vid where day9 keeps saying make pylons make probes make pylons make probes for an hour, how do I make the voices stop?









I have a feeling i'm going to wake up from nightmares mumbling that now...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I have a feeling i'm going to wake up from nightmares mumbling that now...


For the best







.


----------



## Allenssmart

whats the best defense against mass banelings? sieged siege tanks?


----------



## Mwarren

Siege tanks, hellions wont hurt. I stick to marines and siege tanks though.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Why? 1.2 will make you have air control. Zerg is probably the best race right now ( IMO ) but not 15-0 good, unless he's just a better player than you.


Yeah, he's better. The best macro zerg I know, and I started tilting after like 5 lost games. Still kinda frustrating.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Siege tanks, hellions wont hurt. I stick to marines and siege tanks though.


marines as a counter for banelings? are u high lol jks


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yeah, he's better. The best macro zerg I know, and I started tilting after like 5 lost games. Still kinda frustrating.


Doom's been telling me he's been looking for a Macro Zerg to play against. Come NA.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


whats the best defense against mass banelings? sieged siege tanks?


Siege tanks + Marauders in front + Spreading out + Godly Micro + Good planning + Scanning creep tumors + knowing where the zerg army is + the perfect ratio of marines to other units + upgrades like plus 1 tank attack + 3 rax at your front block possibly more + waiting till you have siege mode to expand if banes / slings are out + Falling back to your tank lines with stim.

That's all you need to do.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's all you need to do.


sounds too simple...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


sounds too simple...










Probably forgetting a few important small things which means losing your entire army in a single second but I think I got most of it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just not a lot of macro players on the NA servers. Maybe things will be diff in diamond.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Just not a lot of macro players on the NA servers. Maybe things will be diff in diamond.


The best players are macro players generally IMO. Strong macro is the biggest key and you can learn all the little tricks and strats later.


----------



## ThumperSD

Found this on TL


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Found this on TL


I hope that's edible cake...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11822599*
> Doom's been telling me he's been looking for a Macro Zerg to play against. Come NA.


I'm not sure how's his ZvT, but I could ask to arrange something. He also plays terran and protoss and he'd probably be higher than 2.5k if he only played zerg as it's definitely his strongest race.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11823352*
> The best players are macro players generally IMO. Strong macro is the biggest key and you can learn all the little tricks and strats later.


I agree. You can't touch good macro players, and they can still do an unexpected all-in and win. I think it's well explained in a guide on how to improve I posted a while ago. Btw. I've realized that my macro is much worse than I thought. Against this zerg he would have nearly twice my food count after 15 minutes into the game :S


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11823590*
> Found this on TL
> -snip-


Interesting. Tchenobyl posted something similar for Zerg with a hatchery and little drones mining with creep, was pretty nice


----------



## EmMure

i need games fan damnit!


----------



## Twistacles

I need practice partners. I'm losing to rookie mistakes with the other races because I switched from protoss to random. MMR is 2400-2500~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11825224*
> I need practice partners. I'm losing to rookie mistakes with the other races because I switched from protoss to random. MMR is 2400-2500~


Curious why the switch?


----------



## Allenssmart

how do u find ur mmr?


----------



## DoomDash

You don't.


----------



## thiru

It finds you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11825800*
> It finds you.


It does indeed


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11825800*
> it finds you.


~3100









Edit: I highly recommend the Filco MX Brown to anyone that likes this game.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11823001*
> Siege tanks + Marauders in front + Spreading out + Godly Micro + Good planning + Scanning creep tumors + knowing where the zerg army is + the perfect ratio of marines to other units + upgrades like plus 1 tank attack + 3 rax at your front block possibly more + waiting till you have siege mode to expand if banes / slings are out + Falling back to your tank lines with stim.
> 
> That's all you need to do.


You can also sacrifice individual marines. It's possible to bait the banelings and get 2 of them to explode on one marine. Huge waste of resources for the zerg player, and a very good use of 50 minerals for the terran.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11825923*
> ~3100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I highly recommend the Filco MX Brown to anyone that likes this game.


Kinda hard to get in NA right now.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11825972*
> Kinda hard to get in NA right now.


I know. I'm so happy that I got one right before they stopped selling them on elitekeyboards.com. They can be found through this link still: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13111

It is like night and day in comparison to my logitech.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The only way to get it is to go back in time and buy the limited edition white version.

I hate it that day9 blip.tv's got ad videos every 10 minutes it seems.


----------



## thiru

Use AdBlock Plus.


----------



## DoomDash

qxc streaming omg so good.

http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc/popout

Also I don't get the filco thing... I like my Razer. I never used a flilco though so maybe I just need to try.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11826886*
> qxc streaming omg so good.
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc/popout
> 
> Also I don't get the filco thing... I like my Razer. I never used a flilco though so maybe I just need to try.


Filco come in brown/blue/black switches. Your Razer has blues. Browns don't do the clicky sound and have a little less resistance. And none of the Filcos have backlighting/macro keys/USB hub.


----------



## thiru

lol qxc's getting spammed so hard in game









even Vdek was talking to him xD saw you


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11826959*
> lol qxc's getting spammed so hard in game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even Vdek was talking to him xD saw you


Yeah I was doing it too







.

He doesn't mind or he would put busy. The funny part is people spam his opponents.

I like backlit







.


----------



## walkman

great game!


----------



## DoomDash

me and vdek got into one of his games as observers. He said my name while inviting me







. Is it sad I think that's cool?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11827165*
> me and vdek got into one of his games as observers. He said my name while inviting me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Is it sad I think that's cool?


lol, I like to think I was coaching him the previous game on how to play Zerg.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

HomerJ is a really good SC2 caster, though in German. I've forgotten a lot of the German I used to know but amazingly I perfectly understand 99+% of what HomerJ says. Only rarely do I hear something I don't get.


----------



## thiru

Nothing wrong with looking up to people who are good at things, including video games, and especially if they can actually teach you things.


----------



## DoomDash

In an interview with White-Ra:

"I think all depends on the amount of time you can spend on your training; young players are more ardorious and less-experienced, but play faster. Older players are more reliable and are more experienced."

Eat it youngins.


----------



## DoomDash

vdek enjoy ( 2800+ Z wrecking me ):


----------



## unreal1

my favorite game.


----------



## Benn

Never played this game but i think i will have too... All you people must like it for a reason =)


----------



## DoomDash

http://sc2ranks.com/eu/610238/Puckelrygg

holy ****.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11827635*
> http://sc2ranks.com/eu/610238/Puckelrygg
> 
> holy ****.


Hahahah wth
Nice smurf account.

Btw I see there's the masters league on sc2ranks... are these officially out already?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11827647*
> Hahahah wth
> Nice smurf account.
> 
> Btw I see there's the masters league on sc2ranks... are these officially out already?


No that's the same as Blizzards top 200. They should call it "Grand Master league". It uses Excalibur_Z's formula.


----------



## poroboszcz

Rigorous PvZ training day #2. 30 pro replays to watch and take notes.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11828460*
> Rigorous PvZ training day #2. 30 pro replays to watch and take notes.


- Ignore previous link, it was TvZ, ill find you some.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11827546*
> vdek enjoy ( 2800+ Z wrecking me ):


You didn't have stim even at the 10-11 mark. Stim rapes banes without speed, speedlings off creep (on creep against a wall) and you didn't get double reactors for a while. You really let him drone up by not pumping out as many marines as you can and delaying your marine upgrades. I saw you do a little poke at one point with a handful of marines but you didn't have stim.....and the speedlings took them out without much trouble.

Don't you think that you would be better off delaying your factory tech? Only because speedlings can take out a tank pretty easily and it's costing you to delay your stim/marine upgrades significantly. Bane speed takes a while to get, they need lair tech which takes a little while, then they need to upgrade banespeed which takes a little while. Stimmed marines can handle them before the speed upgrade and he wouldn't be able to drone up so much, by the time that he has bane speed siege tech should be finished.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11827165*
> me and vdek got into one of his games as observers. He said my name while inviting me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Is it sad I think that's cool?


nah son, when i got chosen for an FFA with Cella, I felt honored. hahahahaha


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11827165*
> me and vdek got into one of his games as observers. He said my name while inviting me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Is it sad I think that's cool?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11828937*
> nah son, when i got chosen for an FFA with Cella, I felt honored. hahahahaha


Thiru answered this well, just don't take it to the extremes









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11827224*
> lol, I like to think I was coaching him the previous game on how to play Zerg.


lol, he's a T player isn't he?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benn;11827569*
> Never played this game but i think i will have too... All you people must like it for a reason =)


You must play it!


----------



## Allenssmart

no seriously guys, how do you find your mmr? if you don't, where are people coming up with numbers like ~3100?!?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11829064*
> no seriously guys, how do you find your mmr? if you don't, where are people coming up with numbers like ~3100?!?


Your MMR is hidden, we don't know what it is. These guys are just guessing, likely based on their points


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11828460*
> Rigorous PvZ training day #2. 30 pro replays to watch and take notes.


OMG that's a lot of work. Are you going to play in between replays


----------



## CramComplex

Gah! I wish I could play...but family has an outing...might be online later.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Gah! I wish I could play...but family has an outing...might be online later.


hey, np. Tried to get up at 9ish to see if you are on, but, slept it







Anyways, I'll be on later tonight or possibly before then, have fun!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


OMG that's a lot of work. Are you going to play in between replays


Yea, probably gonna take me a while. I only managed to go through 5 replays today trying to understand the matchup better and pick up some fancy details. In between I test some stuff against the AI.

Did you guys know that Metalopolis is asymmetrical? Each natural is different. For example you can defend roach bust going nexus first at 3 o'clock with 4 cannons, but it's not possible at 9, because the distances between the ramp and nexus are different.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, he's a T player isn't he?


Yah, but he was playing as zerg and I was telling him what to do, lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yea, probably gonna take me a while. I only managed to go through 5 replays today trying to understand the matchup better and pick up some fancy details. In between I test some stuff against the AI.

Did you guys know that Metalopolis is asymmetrical? Each natural is different. For example you can defend roach bust going nexus first at 3 o'clock with 4 cannons, but it's not possible at 9, because the distances between the ramp and nexus are different.


I thought it was established that Blizzard sucked at making maps


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


You didn't have stim even at the 10-11 mark. Stim rapes banes without speed, speedlings off creep (on creep against a wall) and you didn't get double reactors for a while. You really let him drone up by not pumping out as many marines as you can and delaying your marine upgrades. I saw you do a little poke at one point with a handful of marines but you didn't have stim.....and the speedlings took them out without much trouble.

Don't you think that you would be better off delaying your factory tech? Only because speedlings can take out a tank pretty easily and it's costing you to delay your stim/marine upgrades significantly. Bane speed takes a while to get, they need lair tech which takes a little while, then they need to upgrade banespeed which takes a little while. Stimmed marines can handle them before the speed upgrade and he wouldn't be able to drone up so much, by the time that he has bane speed siege tech should be finished.



If you get tanks any slower than that you'll get owned by slings and banes, and you cannot move out your expansion safely.

rhed_5 aka jediwin on here and I were talking about this a few days ago and if he saw me move my command center out before siege he would have crushed me.

Also the problem with getting stim is just its not really enough to save you from banes early, and it would require you to take a small break from you constant marine production. I would much rather use that 100 gas on tanks earlier.

There really was very little I could do to apply any pressure once banes were out before I had my expansion up and enough siege tanks. At most I could have hellion harassed.

I think I should have not sent my second wave of marines though because he already had speed done and really I just threw them away. Maybe if I had still had them I would have been able to safely push a minute earlier.


----------



## Sainesk

how many regions are there again?

NA, and Europe, any more? like whats South Korea in?


----------



## thiru

North America
South America
Europe 
Russia
South Korea
Taiwan (dunno about China)
South East Asia


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I thought it was established that Blizzard sucked at making maps










lol, what's wrong with asymmetrical maps? Makes for more interesting games









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


how many regions are there again?

NA, and Europe, any more? like whats South Korea in?










SC2ranks. com has them up, I think 7 in total. I think thiru got them right









BTW, thiru congrats on reaching 250 reps, took you long enough XD Jk of course









@Doom: 
Here you go, a pic from POP2 in the starting levels:








Unfortunately, the game only goes up to 1600x1200, no 1080p, so, had to play at 1280x964, still looks great though and plays well








BTW, this to me below is the greatest game EVER made:


----------



## thiru

Thanks









Well TBH exactly a year ago I only had about 40 rep. I didn't go much on OCN from 2007 until early 2010.

edit: asymmetrical maps are unbalanced...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks









Well TBH exactly a year ago I only had about 40 rep. I didn't go much on OCN from 2007 until early 2010.

edit: asymmetrical maps are unbalanced...


Look at your rep, just increased by 1 after that comment









I do recall you mentioning that before. I myself joined OCN and was only here for maybe a week or two before going back to my other forum which I was a regular at. Only really started coming to OCN around SC2 time and I've been hooked since XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


edit: asymmetrical maps are unbalanced...


More interesting.







. I like this game because of map favored spots / races. If we didn't have to learn how to over come our disadvantages it would be boring, and all the races would also be the same if you live by that thought process.

POP will be consoled for me I think.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


More interesting.







. I like this game because of map favored spots / races. If we didn't have to learn how to over come our disadvantages it would be boring, and all the races would also be the same if you live by that thought process.

POP will be consoled for me I think.


I don't see how all the races would be the same... on most maps it's unbalanced even if it's a mirror match.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes but you plan for that, which makes it more interesting.

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Time to watch my swearing, be sure to remind me if I use them to not use them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833426*
> More interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I like this game because of map favored spots / races. If we didn't have to learn how to over come our disadvantages it would be boring, and all the races would also be the same if you live by that thought process.
> 
> POP will be *consoled* for me I think.


Agree, it makes the game more unique because it means if will require to plan out different strat depending on the position I end up on









What do you mean consoled?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833790*
> Time to watch my swearing, be sure to remind me if I use them to not use them.


lol, that wouldn't be too hard XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11833796*
> 
> What do you mean consoled?


I'd rather play them on console. Preference. I will wait.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833840*
> I'd rather play them on console. Preference. I will wait.


oh, ok, wasn't sure what you meant. Obviously, they have already been released on console although the PS3 is getting gfx updates for all three of them, why can't they do that for pc?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11832461*
> If you get tanks any slower than that you'll get owned by slings and banes, and you cannot move out your expansion safely.
> 
> rhed_5 aka jediwin on here and I were talking about this a few days ago and if he saw me move my command center out before siege he would have crushed me.
> 
> Also the problem with getting stim is just its not really enough to save you from banes early, and it would require you to take a small break from you constant marine production. I would much rather use that 100 gas on tanks earlier.
> 
> There really was very little I could do to apply any pressure once banes were out before I had my expansion up and enough siege tanks. At most I could have hellion harassed.
> 
> I think I should have not sent my second wave of marines though because he already had speed done and really I just threw them away. Maybe if I had still had them I would have been able to safely push a minute earlier.


Stimmed marines rape speedlings with speed or not though. The problem with going factory first is that you give up a few minutes of potential stimmed marine harassment, allowing the zerg to drone up more. Stimmed marines also destroy banelings without speed.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833466*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwP9ErgIWs&feature=sub










I hope they keep making these, I like to smile...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11833920*
> Stimmed marines rape speedlings with speed or not though. The problem with going factory first is that you give up a few minutes of potential stimmed marine harassment, allowing the zerg to drone up more. Stimmed marines also destroy banelings without speed.


Stimmed marines die in one bane shot, and you need to do some godly micro to make them live... plus speedlings can still easily intercept them.

Seriously try this vs a 2800 Diamond Zerg and get back to me with a replay.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833466*
> Yes but you plan for that, which makes it more interesting.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwP9ErgIWs&feature=sub


I like the Banelings video better


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11834098*
> I like the Banelings video better


Me 2. Huskies awful goatee cracks me up though.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833955*
> Stimmed marines die in one bane shot, and you need to do some godly micro to make them live... plus speedlings can still easily intercept them.
> 
> Seriously try this vs a 2800 Diamond Zerg and get back to me with a replay.


I've beaten 2400 zergs doing this BO. You don't need godly micro to take out banelings that don't have the speed upgrade. Remember the baneling speed upgrade requires a lot of gas and minerals and they wont have it before you have siege tanks if you get stim first. Stimmed marines can stutter step banelings without speed no problem.


----------



## BigFan

I say you guys jump into a game now and test it, TvsZ


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833466*
> Yes but you plan for that, which makes it more interesting.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwP9ErgIWs&feature=sub


Rofl just watched this

Makes you wonder what those SCVs are doing in the supply depots all day...

And bearded/moustachied Husky is... creepy...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11834143*
> I've beaten 2400 zergs doing this BO. You don't need godly micro to take out banelings that don't have the speed upgrade. Remember the baneling speed upgrade requires a lot of gas and minerals and they wont have it before you have siege tanks if you get stim first. Stimmed marines can stutter step banelings without speed no problem.


Right. GL with that in Diamond.


----------



## Allenssmart

anybody wanna add me and help me get better?

zombiehunter

711


----------



## thiru

I remember watching FruitDealer win some games in GSL3:

me: "wow Terran got raped"
Doom: "....he didn't even bother getting speed banelings... in all 3 games... :/"


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11834227*
> I remember watching FruitDealer win some games in GSL3:
> 
> me: "wow Terran got raped"
> Doom: "....he didn't even bother getting speed banelings... in all 3 games... :/"


Banes with out speed get owned by stim marines : Check.

Lings with out speed get owned by stim marines : Check.

Slings get owned by stim marines : Check.

Slings and Banes with out speed get owned by stim marines: False.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11834227*
> I remember watching FruitDealer win some games in GSL3:
> 
> me: "wow Terran got raped"
> Doom: "....he didn't even bother getting speed banelings... in all 3 games... :/"


XD
Well, FD one basing in GSL 3 really caught me off guard. I think that LT game was just soo funny to watch, he turned from a macro Zerg to a one-baser harass Z. Guess it happened overnight XD

Hate to say it, but, he is correct ^^







Stim is good but once slings get a surround, only a matter of time before your marines are dead or the banes reach them


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Guess I'll try playing later if I got the time since everyone says this is such an amazing game, I just don't get what is so special about it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;11834261*
> Guess I'll try playing later if I got the time since everyone says this is such an amazing game, I just don't get what is so special about it


If you don't like it you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that. If you decide you want to come back though we have plenty of players from many different levels that would enjoy playing with you. We will have an overclock.net channel soon, you are more than welcome to join us. We play large 1v1 taking turns games with observers, and its a lot of fun.

If you don't like it though then no one here is forcing you to play.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11833426*
> More interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I like this game because of map favored spots / races. If we didn't have to learn how to over come our disadvantages it would be boring, and all the races would also be the same if you live by that thought process.


I don't know what's so interesting in unbalanced maps. Eg. PvP on steppes when one side can easily harass opponents expo with colossus while the other one can't. These are major design flaws. 1 food roaches and 6 range VRs were interesting as well?

Shame not many people play iccup maps. They're quite decent.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11834185*
> Right. GL with that in Diamond.


Stim is 100 gas, factory is 100 gas, siege tech is 100 gas, 1 tank is 125 gas so that's 425 gas. Mean while speed upgrade for zerglings cost 100 gas, baneling nest costs 50 gas, lair cost's 100 gas, speed upgrade for banelings costs 150 so that's 425 gas counting 1 baneling which obviously wont do very much before you need a siege tank out on the map. Stimmed marines can do a lot of harassment before banelings with speed come out. I'm going to ladder and hopefully play a TvZ so that I can post a replay.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;11834261*
> Guess I'll try playing later if I got the time since everyone says this is such an amazing game, I just don't get what is so special about it


Try what Doom suggested, or team games with people you can communicate with.

My tbag link in my thread has a vent server in which we mainly play SC2/BC2. Team games are so much more manageable with voip.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;11834261*
> Guess I'll try playing later if I got the time since everyone says this is such an amazing game, I just don't get what is so special about it


Give it time. Play through SP and take in the story, read SC1 story. The story although not as good as SC1, is still great. Everything is flawless as in polish-wise, you get to play with more units, you get side missions and you get to chose what mission first. My only complaint about the story is that you feel that they are talking directly to you in SC1, in this case, it's to Jim who you play yet you see him talking to Findlay, etc.... so you don't feel as involved. Much better idea would be to have you face Findlay and then hear the voice, so, first person, would've made SP that much better









As for MP, play with the different races, try the different abilities, etc.... Watch some GSL games, Leenock vs. Clide comes to mind. You'll be blown away by how complex and a tug of war a game can get


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11834315*
> I don't know what's so interesting in unbalanced maps. Eg. PvP on steppes when one side can easily harass opponents expo with colossus while the other one can't. These are major design flaws. 1 food roaches and 6 range VRs were interesting as well?
> 
> Shame not many people play iccup maps. They're quite decent.


I'm not saying they should always be this way, it really depends on how big of a difference it is. For Steps specifically I would agree with you because that part of the map is super important especially on such a close positions map. I wouldn't mind there being iccup versions of Blizzard maps with fixes, but for Laddering I really don't mind it.

I have to make an extra barracks on scrap station on the top spawn, but I adapt and it just makes me have to change my game / think a little different. I don't see a big deal with that for at least non-tournament play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11834354*
> I'm not saying they should always be this way, it really depends on how big of a difference it is. For Steps specifically I would agree with you because that part of the map is super important especially on such a close positions map. I wouldn't mind there being iccup versions of Blizzard maps with fixes, but for Laddering I really don't mind it.
> 
> I have to make an extra barracks on scrap station on the top spawn, but I adapt and it just makes me have to change my game / think a little different. I don't see a big deal with that for at least non-tournament play.


I dunno, I mean I haven't heard any of the top players in major tournaments crying foul about maps and placements


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11834345*
> Stim is 100 gas, factory is 100 gas, siege tech is 100 gas, 1 tank is 125 gas so that's 425 gas. Mean while speed upgrade for zerglings cost 100 gas, baneling nest costs 50 gas, lair cost's 100 gas, speed upgrade for banelings costs 150 so that's 400 gas not counting any banelings made before you need a siege tank out on the map. Stimmed marines can do a lot of harassment before banelings with speed come out. I'm going to ladder and hopefully play a TvZ so that I can post a replay.


I don't want replays of you vs anything less than 2600 Diamond Zergs. I have no problem with Zergs below that level, ask anyone on here. I'm sure I could get whatever I wanted to work against the Zergs you're laddering, but that's not the point.

I think what you are telling me is a gimmick and I don't play gimmicks. I prefer reliability.. not risking losing everything when I could get siege mode for stability that much faster ( which means getting my expo up much faster ). If you lose your stimmed marines to a miss micro or just him being able to correctly deal with it a counter attack with out siege tanks is not work it.


----------



## thiru

Pros don't QQ.

At least not during tournaments


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11834126*
> Me 2. Huskies awful goatee cracks me up though.


Yea unfortunately I think that was the funniest part of the video


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11834401*
> Yea unfortunately I think that was the funniest part of the video


I agree it was quite a let down.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11834158*
> I say you guys jump into a game now and test it, TvsZ


^^


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11834426*
> ^^


I'll gladly play as Z but I don't know how to play any match up as Z properly so it won't really show anything.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11834380*
> I don't want replays of you vs anything less than 2600 Diamond Zergs. I have no problem with Zergs below that level, ask anyone on here. I'm sure I could get whatever I wanted to work against the Zergs you're laddering, but that's not the point.
> 
> I think what you are telling me is a gimmick and I don't play gimmicks. I prefer reliability.. not risking losing everything when I could get siege mode for stability that much faster ( which means getting my expo up much faster ). If you lose your stimmed marines to a miss micro or just him being able to correctly deal with it a counter attack with out siege tanks is not work it.


How is it gimmicky? That's the way that a lot of top diamond players open TvZ. I don't think that I've ever seen anyone go tank first TvZ besides you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11834315*
> I don't know what's so interesting in unbalanced maps. Eg. PvP on steppes when one side can easily harass opponents expo with colossus while the other one can't. These are major design flaws. 1 food roaches and 6 range VRs were interesting as well?
> 
> Shame not many people play iccup maps. They're quite decent.


Also if you want to get to this even more, Terran should get tech labs / reactors to be selectable which side they appear / build on because you get screwed like 50% of the time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11834515*
> How is it gimmicky? That's the way that a lot of top diamond players open TvZ. I don't think that I've ever seen anyone go tank first TvZ besides you.


Do whatever you like, you'll find out soon enough.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11834354*
> I'm not saying they should always be this way, it really depends on how big of a difference it is. For Steps specifically I would agree with you because that part of the map is super important especially on such a close positions map. I wouldn't mind there being iccup versions of Blizzard maps with fixes, but for Laddering I really don't mind it.
> 
> I have to make an extra barracks on scrap station on the top spawn, but I adapt and it just makes me have to change my game / think a little different. I don't see a big deal with that for at least non-tournament play.


Yeah well, for Metalopolis example I don't just have to adjust my play, but I have to totally change it. I can go forge nexus or nexus first on 3 o'clock, even if the zerg goes for some 1 base all in, but if I spawn at 9 I have to go 3 gate or stargate expand and once I have the expo up it's easier for the zerg to harass. Also at the same map at some positions you can kill pylon contain placing a spine crawler at your initial creep while at others you can't. I'm not sure if it's intended.

So if I spawn at 9 and zerg at 3 and he decides to hatch first I'm at quite a disadvantage and if it's the opposite than it's in my favor.

Btw there are some iccup maps available but it's impossible to find games on them.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139560


----------



## yks

If you don't plan to do constant harassment early on. I don't see the point of getting stim early. And I would much rather tech faster.

Getting stim and not using it constantly is the equivalent of building unit-producing structures without having the economy to support it.

or the equivalent to building canons/spine crawlers just to feel "safe," although you feel safe, it's not that wise economically/tech-wise.

idk, I don't play Terran, but that's how I view it. The closest thing for Toss would probably be: getting blink or extended lance and not hitting that timing, which is not even close to being the same.

Edit: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4335922/

I didn't even remember this Day9, but a friend reminded me of it. Makes me feel awesome.


----------



## Allenssmart

scv song LOL

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwP9ErgIWs[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

repost.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11834900*
> If you don't plan to do constant harassment early on. I don't see the point of getting stim early. And I would much rather tech faster.
> 
> Getting stim and not using it constantly is the equivalent of building unit-producing structures without having the economy to support it.
> 
> or the equivalent to building canons/spine crawlers just to feel "safe," although you feel safe, it's not that wise economically/tech-wise.
> 
> idk, I don't play Terran, but that's how I view it. The closest thing for Toss would probably be: getting blink or extended lance and not hitting that timing, which is not even close to being the same.
> 
> Edit: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4335922/
> 
> I didn't even remember this Day9, but a friend reminded me of it. Makes me feel awesome.


I do, do constant harassment early on. When stims done researching I normally have a handful of marines and I'll normally push to the zergs natural and do some sort of harassment so that I don't let the zerg just drone up and get a free win.


----------



## BigFan

Man, that baneling song is soo funny XD


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11835328*
> I do, do constant harassment early on. When stims done researching I normally have a handful of marines and I'll normally push to the zergs natural and do some sort of harassment so that I don't let the zerg just drone up and get a free win.


Do you do it more than once, though? If so, good, you're making good use of getting stim first. That's your strat and that's your style.

As long as people make use of the upgrades they're getting right away, it's all good.

Factory first or Stim first is irrelevant. People got their own technique and it's _LADDER_, your opponents vary. If it was a pro-tournament you'd study the ***** out of your opponent and then would stim-first or factory-first matter. But not on ladder where, again, your opponents vary.

That's why a lot of pros are complaining about the match-history BO section in their profiles. its easy to see what they are preparing with and what they're getting first.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11824552*
> Interesting. Tchenobyl posted something similar for Zerg with a hatchery and little drones mining with creep, was pretty nice


that was a billion pages ago!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11835492*
> Do you do it more than once, though? If so, good, you're making good use of getting stim first. That's your strat and that's your style.
> 
> As long as people make use of the upgrades they're getting right away, it's all good.
> 
> Factory first or Stim first is irrelevant. People got their own technique and it's _LADDER_, your opponents vary. If it was a pro-tournament you'd study the ***** out of your opponent and then would stim-first or factory-first matter. But not on ladder where, again, your opponents vary.
> 
> That's why a lot of pros are complaining about the match-history BO section in their profiles. its easy to see what they are preparing with and what they're getting first.


Even then, it shows only the first couple of mins but I guess that's the important part XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl;11835517*
> that was a billion pages ago!


lol, I'm well aware of that. I just decided to rewatch after seeing that SCV video


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSSLZPKoQug&feature=sub[/ame]

Really? I mean, it's not like your units can warp across the map right? Why would you proxy 3 of your gateways?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11837339*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSSLZPKoQug&feature=sub
> 
> Really? I mean, it's not like your units can warp across the map right? Why would you proxy 3 of your gateways?


lol, well, I've had opponent proxy me before near my base. Bad idea, because, I ran my zlings right past his zealots into his main on sands and it took him a while to get there, then I circled my zlings around and brought them back to my base where I massed them and laid down a hatchery in his main at which point he moved it, but, 4 crawlers+queen+10+zlings are more than enough for 8+ zealots









I think the idea is to reduce the distance travelled BEFORE wrapgate tech is done







Having said that, it's not like he was going to attack him before the tech was done, so, really wasn't much of a reason, just to well, cheese


----------



## cory1234

Huk is streaming live







. Huk vs PoltPrime was sickkk.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11837816*
> Huk is streaming live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Huk vs PoltPrime was sickkk.


Does he not have sound or what?


----------



## Blaze051806

guys plz link me a how to on uploading my replys id like to show one off =)


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11837881*
> Does he not have sound or what?


Nope I usually mute streams anyways.


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11837339*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSSLZPKoQug&feature=sub
> 
> Really? I mean, it's not like your units can warp across the map right? Why would you proxy 3 of your gateways?


Didn't you listen the point was to make the other play think he was either;

1. Not going 4 Gate because well there was only one
or
2. A bad player who isn't building much

He clearly says it in his video


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838036*
> Didn't you listen the point was to make the other play think he was either;
> 
> 1. Not going 4 Gate because well there was only one
> or
> 2. A bad player who isn't building much
> 
> He clearly says it in his video


Clearly it still is dumb. It's not like Diamond players are like, oh, 1 gate, I can take it easy....

and they are also not like... oh he hiding tech I'm going to tech to BC's!


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838127*
> Clearly it still is dumb. It's not like Diamond players are like, oh, 1 gate, I can take it easy....
> 
> and they are also not like... oh he hiding tech I'm going to tech to BC's!


If someone is hiding tech how many times is he gonna proxy you with a 4 gate?(Or should I say how many people hide a 4 gate?) Highly unlikely which makes it pretty damn smart.


----------



## Sainesk

has the ladder reset happened?








im getting asked to play the placement matches...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11836019*


Nice to see diamond level players still constantly pylon block themselves.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838168*
> If someone is hiding tech how many times is he gonna proxy you with a 4 gate?(Or should I say how many people hide a 4 gate?) Highly unlikely which makes it pretty damn smart.


It doesn't matter though, because you start to play extremely safe once you see hidden tech. If I saw that I'd throw up a bunker, do 3 rax and get a missile turret up while scouting the map. HD would have been screwed. Only reason he won was because that Terran did a dumb all in himself.


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838251*
> It doesn't matter though, because you start to play extremely safe once you see hidden tech. If I saw that I'd throw up a bunker, do 3 rax and get a missile turret up while scouting the map. HD would have been screwed. Only reason he won was because that Terran did a dumb all in himself.


Not all players in SC2 are you eh?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838271*
> Not all players in SC2 are you eh?


No, but I'm just saying I think most smarter Terran players will respond with a very well rounded build until they find out exactly what he's up to. Just trying to discourage risky play that will generally get you loses against smart players.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaze051806;11837960*
> guys plz link me a how to on uploading my replys id like to show one off =)


There are several replay sites. I just use sc2replayed.com, make an account then click upload a replay, click browse, find replay, click upload, enter in description, any keywords you want and upload or whatever the button is called and you're done








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11838223*
> has the ladder reset happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im getting asked to play the placement matches...


Do you still have 1vs1 selected?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838271*
> Not all players in SC2 are you eh?


Nope, last I checked I think there was only one doomdash on SC2ranks XD

Rant:
Moving files around is such a pain especially when you have only 7 dvd or so. Copy, paste, erase, rinse and repeat maybe 10 times XD On the bright side, can't wait to get the GTX570 up and running







In the meantime, found some day9 carrier day, so, watching that









Before anyone mentions, yep, know about using the network to move them around, but, I just like this method, lol.
/rant


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838286*
> No, but I'm just saying I think most smarter Terran players will respond with a very well rounded build until they find out exactly what he's up to. Just trying to discourage risky play that will generally get you loses against smart players.


But you see on ladder unless your in Korea your gonna be against some people who really arn't that smart. Which makes cheese work.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838457*
> But you see on ladder unless your in Korea your gonna be against some people who really arn't that smart. Which makes cheese work.


I disagree. It's not like 85% of the high Diamond players are stupid... in fact I would say majority over 2000 would have played that better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838457*
> But you see on ladder unless your in Korea your gonna be against some people *who really arn't that smart*. Which makes cheese work.


Curious, where is this coming from? One of the members of this forum is living in Korea and plays on the KR and NA servers. He mentioned to me, that they don't have a wide variety of strats, that they just concentrate on one strat and try to better it. Now I'm not saying that's bad, that's rather a good thing, but, you also need variety. He got to diamond here in a matter of weeks and lost all his games to strats that he hasn't seen before. I would think that says something


----------



## ttaylor0024

I cant decide if I want this game or not! The demo is nice, but I got rocked from an early rush and haven't been able to work up the nerve to return to it yet


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttaylor0024;11838533*
> I cant decide if I want this game or not! The demo is nice, but I got rocked from an early rush and haven't been able to work up the nerve to return to it yet


If you don't want to get rocked repeatedly this isn't the game for you.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11838309*
> Do you still have 1vs1 selected?


nvm, not asking anymore, maybe was some glitch/connection problem...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttaylor0024;11838533*
> I cant decide if I want this game or not! The demo is nice, but I got rocked from an early rush and haven't been able to work up the nerve to return to it yet


From an MP game or do you mean an AI one? Really, you'll get some cheese and depending on opponent some harass, but, it's not bad if you scout, because, you can tell something is wrong when they don't have many structures in their base


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11838502*
> Curious, where is this coming from? One of the members of this forum is living in Korea and plays on the KR and NA servers. He mentioned to me, that they don't have a wide variety of strats, that they just concentrate on one strat and try to better it. Now I'm not saying that's bad, that's rather a good thing, but, you also need variety. He got to diamond here in a matter of weeks and lost all his games to strats that he hasn't seen before. I would think that says something


From what I have seen/played either I get really lucky in Diamond or there are some really dumb Diamond players. Maybe its that there in diamond and they don't expect cheese or that they just don't know how to beat it idk. I have seen my friend and I have done cheese after cheese in diamond to mess around one day it we lost very few of the games. Maybe it was just a very lucky streak.

Also If I were in Korea right now as I would be gearing up for 2011 GSL!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838646*
> From what I have seen/played either I get really lucky in Diamond or there are some really dumb Diamond players. Maybe its that there in diamond and they don't expect cheese or that they just don't know how to beat it idk. I have seen my friend and I have done cheese after cheese in diamond to mess around one day it we lost very few of the games. Maybe it was just a very lucky streak.
> 
> Also I was I was in Korea right now as I would be gearing up for 2011 GSL!


Of course there are some dumb Diamond players. No one said other wise.

Some of them all in proxy 4 gates.


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838662*
> Of course there are some dumb Diamond players. No one said other wise.
> 
> Some of them all in proxy 4 gates.


I was replying to his bold statement of my comment. ^^

But yes just last GSL someone made it to the round of 32 or 16 by all in 2 rax. Now that tells you something.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838683*
> I was replying to his bold statement of my comment. ^^
> 
> But yes just last GSL someone made it to the round of 32 or 16 by all in 2 rax. Now that tells you something.


Who was that?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838765*
> Who was that?


BitByBitPrime?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838646*
> From what I have seen/played either I get really lucky in Diamond or there are some really dumb Diamond players. Maybe its that there in diamond and they don't expect cheese or that they just don't know how to beat it idk. I have seen my friend and I have done cheese after cheese in diamond to mess around one day it we lost very few of the games. Maybe it was just a very lucky streak.
> 
> Also I was I was in Korea right now as I would be gearing up for 2011 GSL!


I see, was curious


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11838765*
> Who was that?


BitByBitPrime.WE
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1433

Fruitdealer stopped him and 2-0'd him at the Round of 16, but still making it that far in the GSL by 2 rax all ins is pretty weird.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11838832*
> BitByBitPrime?


Rofl just noticed you beat me to it


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11836019*


I don't know why the P guy didn't get immortals out. He had robo tech and he saw very early on you had a fondness for marauders. He kept scouting with observers and saw you continue to mass more marauders. Nonetheless, no immortals appeared, only colossi.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11838892*
> I don't know why the P guy didn't get immortals out. He had robo tech and he saw very early on you had a fondness for marauders. He kept scouting with observers and saw you continue to mass more marauders. Nonetheless, no immortals appeared, only colossi.


EMP = Dead Immortals.

I was just watching HuK vs Check on HuK's stream. It was so pretty, huk FEed, and check went super aggressive speedling. That forced HuK into a mainly Zealot heavy army, and before HuK could push Check went banes since huk was forced into Zealots. Needless to say huk lost very quickly.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The issue wasn't he didn't build morts but he just kept his money high all the time and didn't produce units when he had the chance to. Two or more immortals vs ghost? It wouldn't have helped.

I can hear day9 now; Probe? Food block? Money Low? Chrono?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11838957*
> The issue wasn't he didn't build morts but he just kept his money high all the time and didn't produce units when he had the chance to. Two or more immortals vs ghost? It wouldn't have helped.
> 
> *I can hear day9 now*; Probe? Food block? Money Low? Chrono?


Sounds like someone's been watching day9 a bit too much XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;11838886*
> BitByBitPrime.WE
> http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1433
> 
> Fruitdealer stopped him and 2-0'd him at the Round of 16, but still making it that far in the GSL by 2 rax all ins is pretty weird.
> 
> Rofl just noticed you beat me to it


Yes, I didn't see Ro64 or Ro32 but I saw the FD vs. BitByBitPrime game, all his games were cheeses according to tasteosis which is interesting to watch IMO, although, I would never go cheese for many games, haven't even once


----------



## EmMure

games big|


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11839020*
> Sounds like someone's been watching day9 a bit too much XD


Sounds like someone hasn't been watching enough Day9.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11839048*
> games big|


Rather bad timing, still moving files since I'm reformating so SC2 would run slow as hell XD


----------



## EmMure

sounds like someone likes poop in there mouth.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11839057*
> Sounds like someone hasn't been watching enough Day9.


lol, well I just watched his carrier day with Huk, wasn't bad but this guy is too hyper. I mean he talks as much as I do XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11839064*
> sounds like someone likes poop in there mouth.


Who are we talking about?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11839074*
> lol, well I just watched his carrier day with Huk, wasn't bad but this guy is too hyper. I mean he talks as much as I do XD


Carrier day? What the hell? Why not the ones we recommend to you?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11838957*
> The issue wasn't he didn't build morts but he just kept his money high all the time and didn't produce units when he had the chance to. Two or more immortals vs ghost? It wouldn't have helped.
> 
> I can hear day9 now; Probe? Food block? Money Low? Chrono?


The supply block was bad but I think having only one robo facility was worse. With two he could have gotten out immortals and colossi simultaneously and spent his money better and faster. Dude had 6 gates and only robo facility. Not a good balance IMO. He observed the composition of the terran army so he couldn't claim ignorance of what was about to attack him.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11839108*
> Carrier day? What the hell? Why not the ones we recommend to you?


lol, take it easy








I had the carrier day video or clip from a couple of month back when someone said it was interesting to watch, but, I never got around to it. Decided to watch it since I had it already. I think I have another day9 episode, but, not sure what it is


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11839147*
> lol, take it easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had the carrier day video or clip from a couple of month back when someone said it was interesting to watch, but, I never got around to it. Decided to watch it since I had it already. I think I have another day9 episode, but, not sure what it is


132 I hope.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11839261*
> 132 I hope.


lol, it's actually 199 XD


----------



## DoomDash

HuK is my least favorite *pro*toss.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11839410*
> HuK is my least favorite *pro*toss.


You're obviously a qxc fan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11839498*
> You're obviously a qxc fan.


How could you tell? XD


----------



## DoomDash

I do like qxc, and his streams are way way way better. I don't like huk's play style anyway.


----------



## thiru

Huk's stream sucks. Very low graphic quality, chat is often disabled, doesn't talk or chat, etc.


----------



## ThumperSD

Huk vs Jinro... I bet they are both playing right next to each other


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss players ( good ones ): How do you respond to 2 rax FE against Terran?


----------



## ThumperSD

2rax pressure or defensive 2rax?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


2rax pressure or defensive 2rax?


Pressure as soon as the expansion starts building ( in base ).

I've been having great success with it but I think Blizzard has been giving me a break with easy ladder players ( and that guy I posted the replay of ). Not sure if its just the quality of players who are letting me get away with it, or its just sick good.


----------



## ThumperSD

Hard to say really. If I scout the 2rax Id probably get 3 gates or 2gate/stargate counter push to expand.

What page is the replay?


----------



## DoomDash

The iccup maps do look awesome, especially this one:









Might start playing these.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180223

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11840250*
> Hard to say really. If I scout the 2rax Id probably get 3 gates or 2gate/stargate counter push to expand.
> 
> What page is the replay?


2-3 pages ago IDK.


----------



## ThumperSD

If you talking about the one with yaegz Id prob FE on that map


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


If you talking about the one with yaegz Id prob FE on that map


Yeah.


----------



## ThumperSD

That would have been a money EMP at the end if he had storm ready lol. Not sure if they were in range though.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I thought he did have storm, and I wasn't risking aiming at the sentries because I can live with FF







. If I can kill Protoss before storm, that's ideal heh.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

He also forgot he had feedback.


----------



## cory1234

Uploaded a couple replays. If anyone is interested I have a few PvP's 2900+ also.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Plush baneling toy, custom made. So cute.

http://www.etsy.com/transaction/32819119


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Plush baneling toy. So cute.


you think that now but just wait till it explodes while you're hugging it...


----------



## yks

When Doom told me about the TvP replay against yaegz on AIM, the only issue yaegz had was chrono-boost and not constantly making out of the robo.

had he done this, when the battle had happened 5-7 Colossi would've been out instead of the 3 he had.

oh and forgetting warp-cycles by a few seconds. which im having a problem with too =[

everything else seemed irrelevant. just his macro.


----------



## rhed5

anyone want to play some games?


----------



## vdek

So stupid, Jinro vs Idra for Code S matches...


----------



## Mwarren

Nvm got it.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11842438*
> Uploaded a couple replays. If anyone is interested I have a few PvP's 2900+ also.


Cool. I use very similar strategy in PvT against bio you did on XC. 1 gate FE into speedlots, then either DT or HT. Against pure rax play from terran DTs are really good.

My PvZs also look quite similar: zerg spams roaches and 1a's to my base. GG
Have you got some more PvZs, prefereably where you actually win? Also any clues how to deal with mass roach spam?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11843031*
> When Doom told me about the TvP replay against yaegz on AIM, the only issue yaegz had was chrono-boost and not constantly making out of the robo.
> 
> had he done this, when the battle had happened 5-7 Colossi would've been out instead of the 3 he had.
> 
> oh and forgetting warp-cycles by a few seconds. which im having a problem with too =[
> 
> everything else seemed irrelevant. just his macro.


Iirc his macro was ok. His major blunder was that he moved out with half of his army, without waiting for colossi or storm and lost it without any reason. If he just stayed at his base and waited for upgrades to finish he'd be fine.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11843581*
> So stupid, Jinro vs Idra for Code S matches...


how do those work, is the loser going to get eliminated or what? (just wondering what you mean by "so stupid")


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11843780*
> Iirc his macro was ok. His major blunder was that he moved out with half of his army, without waiting for colossi or storm and lost it without any reason. If he just stayed at his base and waited for upgrades to finish he'd be fine.


nah, his macro was sub-par. but im suffering from same habits.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11843780*
> My PvZs also look quite similar: zerg spams roaches and 1a's to my base. GG Have you got some more PvZs, prefereably where you actually win? Also any clues how to deal with *mass roach spam?*


SSC doesn't work?


----------



## Katana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11843343*
> anyone want to play some games?


Thanks for taking the time to show me some tips! Only low point of the night was wrecking a complete newbie with an army 20x his size 10 minutes into the game.
+rep


----------



## DoomDash

Seems like my TvZ is really helping vdek / law get better at it. Vdek even took 2 legit wins off my today! Congrats vdek. Now I will have to get even better.

I played Jediwin today in two TvP's. Game one I lose pretty quick, but game 2 was pretty epic ( and filled with mistakes from me like poor scouting, supply blocking myself ect ect ). I still recommend game 2 though as it was a 30+ minute game on metal:





wow my apm was 121 for 30 minutes, thats quite an improvement over where I used to be ( 90~ ).


----------



## DoomDash

QXC streaming! Happy New Years!

http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc#/w/711986464


----------



## DoomDash

He picked my musical recommendation on the stream lol.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieLm-neuuc&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Epona

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwP9ErgIWs[/ame]

For your viewing pleasure.


----------



## DoomDash

reepoostttt x2.


----------



## Epona

I forgot I have to go back like 15 pages to get through a day of posts in this thread. XD


----------



## BigFan

^^ XD

Happy New Year Everyone!


----------



## DoomDash

I leave the page I'm on up, and when I wake up I go through every page.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848543*
> I leave the page I'm on up, and when I wake up I go through every page.


Smart idea .... if you're lazy! XD
Jk of couse, btw, you can't post that previous music with the scorpion theme *points to avatar*


----------



## DoomDash

qxc's siege tank play is getting owned so hard by some random protoss on ladder







.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848669*
> qxc's siege tank play is getting owned so hard by some random protoss on ladder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I was watching the stream briefly earlier this evening, and then I saw you pop up on screen saying something about Huk's stream having better music. I lol'd


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848669*
> qxc's siege tank play is getting owned so hard by some random protoss on ladder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Need to see this, linky plz?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11848737*
> I was watching the stream briefly earlier this evening, and then I saw you pop up on screen saying something about Huk's stream having better music. I lol'd


Yeah, joking of course







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11848798*
> Need to see this, linky plz?


It's posted a page ago. But here u go
http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc#/w/712160432/2

Finally qxc beat him by ditching tank play. He lost 3 straight going tanks







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2170697/1/GplaysNet/matches


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848809*
> It's posted a page ago. But here u go
> http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc#/w/712160432/2
> 
> Finally qxc beat him by ditching tank play. He lost 3 straight going tanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2170697/1/GplaysNet/matches


oops, didn't realize that









Even if he lost, it happens. You make it sound like the world is gonna end









+REP for link though









Edit: Those background noises and music don't fit well either :/


----------



## DoomDash

I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end







.

Happy New Year finally hit 12:00 here.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848974*
> I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Happy New Year finally hit 12:00 here.


That does:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848809*
> He lost 3 straight going tanks *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*


lol.
Reached 12:00 over an hour ago for me


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11848974*
> I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Happy New Year finally hit 12:00 here.


I can't believe this thread is going strong into New Years.

This is going to become the biggest thread on OCN if keeps going at this pace.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11843904*
> how do those work, is the loser going to get eliminated or what? (just wondering what you mean by "so stupid")


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11849110*
> I can't believe this thread is going strong into New Years.


I can't believe you left me in suspense from 2010 till 2011...


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11849132*
> I can't believe you left me in suspense from 2010 till 2011...


Yes he gets eliminated. Jinro and Idra are the only two foreigners in Code S


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11849158*
> Yes he gets eliminated. Jinro and Idra are the only two foreigners in Code S


whens the match taking place?

I agree with you though that's silly, I would have loved to see those two in more than one game each.

my moneys on Idra...


----------



## DoomDash

My money is on idrA as well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11849515*
> My money is on idrA as well.


Is Idra that good? I mean I've seen some of his games, he seems to like to macro and stretches himself very thin defense wise which caused him to lose some games.

Anyone up for a game in 10min or so? Just got SC2 installed, still have to install so many things T_T XD


----------



## yks

It's round robin, so technically, Jinro AND* Idra can both make it to the bracket stage of the tournament.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11849581*
> It's round robin, so technically, Jinro AND* Idra can both make it to the bracket stage of the tournament.


oooh really? *crosses fingers...*


----------



## nlsthzn

Could you guys hook me up with some links and such on the feeds you are watching the tourneys on... I downloaded and installed the sc2 calender app form teamliquid site but haven't seen anything on there yet that seemed uber cool...

I follow many casters but have yet to find and watch a live tourney...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11850185*
> Could you guys hook me up with some links and such on the feeds you are watching the tourneys on... I downloaded and installed the sc2 calender app form teamliquid site but haven't seen anything on there yet that seemed uber cool...
> 
> I follow many casters but have yet to find and watch a live tourney...


That app basically has everything you could hope to watch in the US....
Just keep an eye on anything with lots of viewers, especially when the stream's name doesn't sound like a caster's name (like GLHf OR iCCup TV).

Except if you want the GSL, but in that case just watch it on gomtv.net.


----------



## nlsthzn

Thanks thiru... I went to gomtv.net but my Korean is a bit off... (mental note to self, find a way to translate the site)...

Big frustration is finding something good online when I am online... my timing is off


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


Thanks thiru... I went to gomtv.net but my Korean is a bit off... (mental note to self, find a way to translate the site)...

Big frustration is finding something good online when I am online... my timing is off










... the whole website is in English for me.. And the website has a nice little "Go live" tab that shows you when the next GSL match is planned.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11850287*
> ... the whole website is in English for me.. And the website has a nice little "Go live" tab that shows you when the next GSL match is planned.


Wait wut?!

Now it is in english for me too... what link that I go to last time???

Awesomeness... (now if I wasn't at work...







)


----------



## thiru

Probably clicked on a NCR (no country redirect) link









You could probably find stuff in your own language if it's not english, but they won't be on TL.net.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Probably clicked on a NCR (*New California Republic*)


Fixed.


----------



## nlsthzn

Don't know what I did wrong then or right this time... but I am glad it is working now!


----------



## teajayyy

just bought this game.. i suck :///


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *teajayyy*


just bought this game.. i suck :///


Had the game for a while and I still suck... pity I find it so much fun... no wait... not a pity... who cares, I love it (wish I could find more time to play...)


----------



## thiru

Check the video links in the first post, especially the first Newbie Tuesdays from Day9.


----------



## poroboszcz

So I just came back from a police custody. Should have stayed home and play SC2 lol. Happy New Year people!!1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Is Idra that good? I mean I've seen some of his games, he seems to like to macro and stretches himself very thin defense wise which caused him to lose some games.


Yes he is. I doubt many non-korean players can touch him.

Edit: oGsMC restream: http://www.own3d.tv/live/11888


----------



## l337sft

Is SCA down for everyone?


----------



## nlsthzn

First two ladder games for 2011 done... one loss, one win... Toss overran me yet again


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *teajayyy*


just bought this game.. i suck :///


Practice, Practice and ..... Practice!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


So I just came back from a *police custody*. Should have stayed home and play SC2 lol. Happy New Year people!!1

Yes he is. I doubt many non-korean players can touch him.

Edit: oGsMC restream: http://www.own3d.tv/live/11888


Sounds like someone drank too much?









I see, well, he made it RO16 before he was taken out in the GSL, not bad.


----------



## yks

I don't know about you guys, but I am hyped up for TSL 3.

That intro with the drawing of Nony in TL was like, lawl.

I wish Nony went to Korea for GSL.

Info: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=180950


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't know about you guys, but I am hyped up for TSL 3.

That intro with the drawing of Nony in TL was like, lawl.

I wish Nony went to Korea for GSL.

Info: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=180950


yeah just visited a few minutes ago i was going like...***! Someone made a bad decision on advetising...then...a few seconds into the video i was like ....oooookkkk...wow...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


Is SCA down for everyone?


Yes, it's been down a week.

So I laddered some yesterday and I played a pretty surprising game. Some Protoss on jungle basin went like mass void rays, or an amount that I had never seen anyone in a 1v1 ladder game go before. To be honest I didn't know how to properly react and I never seemed to have enough marines to take care of them ( with his mainly Zealot ground army ).

I don't think it would work against me very long but I just had never seen anyone do it before.

Moral of the story : Building voidays, a useful talent to have.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes, it's been down a week.

So I laddered some yesterday and I played a pretty surprising game. Some Protoss on jungle basin went like mass void rays, or an amount that I had never seen anyone in a 1v1 ladder game go before. To be honest I didn't know how to properly react and I never seemed to have enough marines to take care of them ( with his mainly Zealot ground army ).

I don't think it would work against me very long but I just had never seen anyone do it before.

Moral of the story : Building voidays, a useful talent to have.


lol, actually VRs+chargelots sounds like a powerful combo. Chargelots take care of marines as well as marauders and some other units while the VRs charge up on buildings, etc....







Of course, a sentry or two would help with preventing kiting. Maybe I should try this?


----------



## CramComplex

BF up for games? anyone wanna spectate?

maybe give some tips and tricks and critique the gameplay?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, actually VRs+chargelots sounds like a powerful combo. Chargelots take care of marines as well as marauders and some other units while the VRs charge up on buildings, etc....







Of course, a sentry or two would help with preventing kiting. Maybe I should try this?










Marines with stim and shields and medivacs would counter it and it'd be pretty cost effective.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


BF up for games? anyone wanna spectate?

maybe give some tips and tricks and critique the gameplay?


Unfortunately can't, need to do a couple of things and still move files around/finish installing other games, maybe in a couple of hours









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Marines with stim and shields and medivacs would counter it and it'd be pretty cost effective.


Not if you ff behind those marines, you won't







I'm thinking about this in terms of zealots being the mineral dump and VRs being the only gas unit built besides some sentries


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11853527*
> Unfortunately can't, need to do a couple of things and still move files around/finish installing other games, maybe in a couple of hours


wait what happened? Got a new GPU?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11853386*
> Moral of the story : Building voidays, a useful talent to have.


ROFL, you know how I always call you Idra Jr?

"Carriers take skill to make" or something along those lines.


----------



## thiru




----------



## CramComplex

^ i lol'ed


----------



## yellowtoblerone

HAHAHAHA too funny. I love when dra rage


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11853715*
> wait what happened? Got a new GPU?


yes, I thought you knew







GTX570+psu, so, I did a clean install and readding all my files, reinstalling games, etc.... Makes for a cleaner system and getting closer to finishing now








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11853769*


I love idra's BM, it's hilarious to read XD


----------



## BigFan

Curious, anyone else wish we had a lot more ladder maps? I mean in the video files and campaign, the maps were nice, some with interesting twists, but, in this case, we are limited to the same 10 maps or so for laddering :/


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11855075*
> Curious, anyone else wish we had a lot more ladder maps? I mean in the video files and campaign, the maps were nice, some with interesting twists, but, in this case, we are limited to the same 10 maps or so for laddering :/


maybe there will be some with HOTS and/or LOTV?

also let us know how much your 570 pwns your 8800


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11855146*
> maybe there will be some with HOTS and/or LOTV?
> 
> also let us know how much your *570 pwns your 8800*


Guessing they'll add more in exps as well, just wish they would add another couple now. I mean they have the tools, I don't think it'll be that difficult to do









XD I will, did some quick benchmarking before I changed OS and installed my 570 so I'll expecting a large difference, lol









BTW, anyone thinks that in w7, when the dl finishes, that it sounds like an elephant? XD


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11854573*
> HAHAHAHA too funny. I love when dra rage


Husky looks so creepy
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11855075*
> Curious, anyone else wish we had a lot more ladder maps? I mean in the video files and campaign, the maps were nice, some with interesting twists, but, in this case, we are limited to the same 10 maps or so for laddering :/


Blizzard used to release new maps quite frequently during the SC1/BW days. They dont seem to care too much anymore.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11855537*
> Husky looks so creepy
> 
> Blizzard used to release new maps quite frequently during the SC1/BW days. They dont seem to care too much anymore.


hmm, I think I'll make a thread on the battle.net forums. Playing the same 10 maps while will keep you occupied for a while, is really annoying to me at least


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11855693*
> hmm, I think I'll make a thread on the battle.net forums. Playing the same 10 maps while will keep you occupied for a while, is really annoying to me at least


Oh yeah, you'll be the first to make a thread asking for new maps!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11855755*
> Oh yeah, you'll be the first to make a thread asking for new maps!


XD I haven't checked battle.net for such threads, so, obviously I wouldn't make one unless I know there aren't others


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11855794*
> XD I haven't checked battle.net for such threads, so, obviously I wouldn't make one unless I know there aren't others


If you think something is wrong with starcraft II, chances are there are at least 10 threads about it on the forums.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11855910*
> If you think something is wrong with starcraft II, chances are there are at least 10 threads about it on the forums.


Likely, I just never bother to post on the battle.net forums. Reading balancing idea posted by the community can be interesting enough as is


----------



## l337sft

Is anyone else getting the " Global_Internal_Error "

I cant log in, all i wanna do is play


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;11856197*
> Is anyone else getting the " Global_Internal_Error "
> 
> I cant log in, all i wanna do is play


nope,

reinstall time?









edit: it's not just you, i'm not getting it but I hear a lot of people on battle.net forums are...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;11856460*
> nope,
> 
> reinstall time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: it's not just you, i'm not getting it but I hear a lot of people on battle.net are...


Just checked, sc2 is working fine for me as well, rather more responsive than usual(like the 570 is the reason)









Just ran 3DMark 11, killed my poor gpu, X1800 or so :/

Edit: Gonna have to oc my cpu of course


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11853748*
> ROFL, you know how I always call you Idra Jr?
> 
> "Carriers take skill to make" or something along those lines.


Considering I think his BM is funny as hell I'll continue to take that as a compliment.

I should totally rage more and say such things... and yes that's what I implied by the comment







.

Yeah I should have gone medivacs. I think that's my most under used unit and for no reason.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11857050*
> Considering I think his BM is funny as hell I'll continue to take that as a compliment.
> 
> I should totally rage more and say such things... and yes that's what I implied by the comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yeah I should have gone medivacs. I think that's my most under used unit and for no reason.


Yee, I mean nothing by it, just a similarity I've noticed.

Moar Medvas tho.


----------



## Katana

Just for fun and nostalgia of the old Starcraft 64 days, I just played an AI game with fun in mind. I went 1v2 on Easy, made 4 or 5 expansions and made a fleet of carriers to wipe everything out.
Hope I didn't make myself stupider in the process.

jedi showed me the good process of keeping all my rax in a hotkey to keep production upkeep, but that process seems more difficult for zerg when keeping larvae on multiple hatcheries. Is the solution just to have a hotkey for each queen by each hatchery so you can center on it? I'm looking for something I can just do really quickly, mostly by keyboard.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11857745*
> Just for fun and nostalgia of the old Starcraft 64 days, I just played an AI game with fun in mind. I went 1v2 on Easy, made 4 or 5 expansions and made a fleet of carriers to wipe everything out.
> Hope I didn't make myself stupider in the process.
> 
> jedi showed me the good process of keeping all my rax in a hotkey to keep production upkeep, but that process seems more difficult for zerg when keeping larvae on multiple hatcheries. Is the solution just to have a hotkey for each queen by each hatchery so you can center on it? I'm looking for something I can just do really quickly, mostly by keyboard.


Have all hatcheries on 1 hotkey, then each queen in another.

4 would be all my hatches, then 5-8 would be each queen.

4 -> S, selects all larvae from all hatcheries. 4SDDDDDDDD or 4SZZZZZZZ


----------



## yks

GSL Code S Group A Tonight:

PoltPrime vs NesTea
MakaPrime vs TheBestfOu


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11857050*
> Considering I think his BM is funny as hell I'll continue to take that as a compliment.
> 
> I should totally rage more and say such things... and yes that's what I implied by the comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yeah I should have gone medivacs. I think that's my most under used unit and for no reason.


Medivacs are such awesome units as well, a transport AND a healer. I find that in my games against P, they are needed a lot mid game+








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11857745*
> jedi showed me the good process of keeping all my rax in a hotkey to keep production upkeep, but that process seems more difficult for zerg when keeping larvae on multiple hatcheries. Is the solution just to have a hotkey for each queen by each hatchery so you can center on it? I'm looking for something I can just do really quickly, mostly by keyboard.


Personally, I do 1 for hatcheries, 2 for queens. Then click 1s(d for drone, z for zergling, etc....). For spawning larvae, click 2v(I think it's v, not c) and then click hatchery on minimap. Repeat depending on number of hatcheries. What will happen is that queens that are closest to the hatcheries you clicked with spawn larvae, so, if you keep at least one queen within a close distance of hatchery(far doesn't matter either though), they'll walk back to hatchery and spawn larvae on it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11858617*
> 
> Personally, I do 1 for hatcheries, 2 for queens. Then click 1s(d for drone, z for zergling, etc....). For spawning larvae, click 2v(I think it's v, not c) and then click hatchery on minimap. Repeat depending on number of hatcheries. What will happen is that queens that are closest to the hatcheries you clicked with spawn larvae, so, if you keep at least one queen within a close distance of hatchery(far doesn't matter either though), they'll walk back to hatchery and spawn larvae on it


Don't forget 8 for extractor.. or was it 9?

For Zerg I do 1 melee + ranged, 2 fliers, 3 casters, 4 all hatcheries, 5 main hatch, 6 nat hatch, 7 3rd, ect ect.

For larva I just hit 55clickV ect.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11858713*
> Don't forget 8 for extractor.. or was it 9?
> 
> For Zerg I do 1 melee + ranged, 2 fliers, 3 casters, 4 all hatcheries, 5 main hatch, 6 nat hatch, 7 3rd, ect ect.
> 
> For larva I just hit 55clickV ect.


XD
Reason for that was that my scouting drone was at 9, brought back to base and decided to go for an extractor, so, as a result, 9 became an extractor, lol.


----------



## vdek

So I started my own stream up: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku

Going to be playing as Zerg on the ladder, I'll probably post here when I start streaming.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11858897*
> So I started my own stream up: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku
> 
> Going to be playing as Zerg on the ladder, I'll probably post here when I start streaming.


Nice, although I do want to ask:
What is it with everyone and streaming? I mean once your games are done, then they'll have to wait for the next day. Much better idea to have a replay and then cast it and explain what was going on through your mind at that point, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

Streaming takes less work / time.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11858942*
> Nice, although I do want to ask:
> What is it with everyone and streaming? I mean once your games are done, then they'll have to wait for the next day. Much better idea to have a replay and then cast it and explain what was going on through your mind at that point, etc....


Streaming is easier I think, it's not hard to just turn it on while you're playing ladder games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11859012*
> Streaming is easier I think, it's not hard to just turn it on while you're playing ladder games.


Wouldn't you want to explain what's happening or something? Although, if not, I can see why it's easier


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11858897*
> So I started my own stream up: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku
> 
> Going to be playing as Zerg on the ladder, I'll probably post here when I start streaming.


Nice quality, I would stream but I don't have the upload speed necessary to stream at the best quality.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11859014*
> Wouldn't you want to explain what's happening or something? Although, if not, I can see why it's easier


I gotta figure out how to get my mic working without causing an annoying Echo :/


----------



## yks

Streaming is much sicker cause you can chat while you play.

And most people don't DL replays.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11859186*
> I gotta figure out how to get my mic working without causing an annoying Echo :/


I've seen a couple of guys using Virtual Audio Cable to configure their stream sounds. You should be able to make a virtual output with a mix of SC2/music/mic/Ventrilo/etc sounds and feed that into your stream setup rather than grabbing everything that comes out of your Stereo Mix. I've never used it myself and I'm not sure how limited the trial is (vs. the $30 full version), but I'd look into that.


----------



## nlsthzn

What kind of bandwidth is required to stream and play... I have a 8mbps down, 1mbps up and I doubt I will get away with it (could make an epic channel about how not to play SC2







)


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11859902*
> What kind of bandwidth is required to stream and play... I have a 8mbps down, 1mbps up and I doubt I will get away with it (could make an epic channel about how not to play SC2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


your up is pretty =[

i stream @ 1000 kbps

you could try livestream which caps out @ 500kbps for free accounts


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


your up is pretty =[

i stream @ 1000 kbps

you could try livestream which caps out @ 500kbps for free accounts


Maybe I will try it out for the lulz... cheers!


----------



## ThumperSD

Is it easy to stream? I got the hardware but been too lazy to set it up. Ive been thinking of doing it.

What's the most important factor when it comes to quality streaming? Internet speed?


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.pcworld.com/article/213034/screencast_live_how_to_make_your_own_web_tv_show.html?tk=hp_fv


----------



## ThumperSD

Cool, rep


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


Is anyone else getting the " Global_Internal_Error "

I cant log in, all i wanna do is play










I had the error earlier today. You have to keep trying to log in. I think it worked after the 5-7 times.


----------



## Sainesk

anyone else getting a "29" and "02" popup when they go to gomtv... what could it mean?


----------



## EmMure

anyone for some custom games?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


So I started my own stream up: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku

Going to be playing as Zerg on the ladder, I'll probably post here when I start streaming.


Do you want your stream on the first post?


----------



## Rpg2

I left the stream for a half hour for Wendys and 130 viewers pop up in the stream. Where'd they come from?

I want mod status too plz


----------



## thiru

I demand mod status as well!


----------



## nlsthzn

Normally people beg for mod status... only mods can make demands


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


anyone else getting a "29" and "02" popup when they go to gomtv... what could it mean?











Try my stream.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Do you want your stream on the first post?


 Sure, why not. I'll be streaming a lot of games on the way to the masters league. I'm trying to set up the stream as a really high quality stream.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rpg2*


I left the stream for a half hour for Wendys and 130 viewers pop up in the stream. Where'd they come from?

I want mod status too plz











Lol, sure.


----------



## thiru

Stream went down









didn't even have time to ban anyone with my new found powers








j/k


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11861056*
> Try my stream.
> 
> Sure, why not. I'll be streaming a lot of games on the way to the masters league. I'm trying to set up the stream as a really high quality stream.
> 
> Lol, sure.


Normally I don't care about being mod, but what the hell, with 130 users. xD


----------



## DoomDash

Latest 4 vs my 2600 Z friend ( I go 3-1 ):

Now if only every Zerg played like him.


----------



## DoomDash

Someone left me a rep saying Terran sucks......

YOUR RACE SUCKS AND I WONT GIVE U REP FOR IT!







.

PS thanks.


----------



## Mwarren

Just won the closest TvP I've had yet, I actually cant believe that I won he screwed up really bad. Its against a 2000 plat toss player. I thought it was GG when collosi came out, when I saw his big push I decided to run past his army and try to take out all of his probes in his main since I know he didn't have an expo and I had siege tanks on the way. He tried pushing up my ramp and my tanks raped his collosi, and I pushed into his main and won.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns


----------



## nlsthzn

Ah crap... wanted to watch GSL4 opening round but I got my maths on the time wrong, I added hours when I was supposed to subtract them QQ


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


Ah crap... wanted to watch GSL4 opening round but I got my maths on the time wrong, I added hours when I was supposed to subtract them QQ


Yeah it started at 4AM Today :/ (from where I live at least)


----------



## l337sft

Isnt the ladder supposed to reset today?


----------



## yks

Vdek, where the VODs, brah!


----------



## nlsthzn

Hey, if anyone would like to have a quick look... I have been trying to focus a bit more on Macro but I think my Micro and unit choices sunk me in this Terran vs Protoss... any tips would be greatly appreciated

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13877196/STW...ucks.SC2Replay

Cheers


----------



## Epona

Did the patch come out yet? :0


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;11863522*
> Isnt the ladder supposed to reset today?


That was the rumor going around. It never really made any sense to me seeing as it's a Sunday and the last day of everyone's holiday.

If it happens at all this week, I'd expect a patch + reset on Tues/Wed/Thurs.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11863601*
> Hey, if anyone would like to have a quick look... I have been trying to focus a bit more on Macro but I think my Micro and unit choices sunk me in this Terran vs Protoss... any tips would be greatly appreciated
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13877196/STW%28T%29%20-%20%28P%29%20Jungle%20Basin%20Macro%20better%20-%20Micro%20sucks.SC2Replay
> 
> Cheers


You lost because you don't have a solid build order or gameplan. You made 2 rax, no gas against P which I wouldn't advise doing. You want that gas at 13 so that you can get marauders and concussive asap. You macro also needs a ton of work. Most of that game your minerals were hovering over 400 and at one point it was over 2000 if I remember correctly. You need to pressure your opponent more often, you let him tech to high templars with no pressure at all from you.

Everytime that you initiated you had 1 siege tank and a bunker full of rines at your base. If you brought that 1 tank and rines with you, you would have done a lot more damage. You also teched to thors too fast in my opinion. You really want to get a lot of tanks out so that you can force a surround and and take him out like that. You could have ended that game at the 10 minute mark if you had a solid build order and pushed with everything that you had. He had almost nothing, even when he had collosis out he had almost nothing to defend them with.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11864469*
> You lost because you don't have a solid build order or gameplan. You made 2 rax, no gas against P which I wouldn't advise doing. You want that gas at 13 so that you can get marauders and concussive asap. You macro also needs a ton of work. Most of that game your minerals were hovering over 400 and at one point it was over 2000 if I remember correctly. You need to pressure your opponent more often, you let him tech to high templars with no pressure at all from you.
> 
> Everytime that you initiated you had 1 siege tank and a bunker full of rines at your base. If you brought that 1 tank and rines with you, you would have done a lot more damage. You also teched to thors too fast in my opinion. You really want to get a lot of tanks out so that you can force a surround and and take him out like that. You could have ended that game at the 10 minute mark if you had a solid build order and pushed with everything that you had. He had almost nothing, even when he had collosis out he had almost nothing to defend them with.


k... thanks... I will look into the advice!


----------



## thiru

Isn't the patch and ladder reset supposed to happen today? or is it tomorrow?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11865125*
> Isn't the patch and ladder reset supposed to happen today? or is it tomorrow?


Lots of speculation... at the blizzard forum it is also just a lot of questions without answers currently...


----------



## vdek

I uploaded one of the ZvZs I played yesterday because I thought it was a pretty crazy game.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11863563*
> Vdek, where the VODs, brah!


TL removes streamers who do GOM restreams from their list :/


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11865648*
> I uploaded one of the ZvZs I played yesterday because I thought it was a pretty crazy game.
> 
> 
> 
> TL removes streamers who do GOM restreams from their list :/


Oh... lol
I was going to warn you about that, but when I joined your stream was already removed from TL I guess.
But that doesn't have anything to do with VODs..


----------



## cory1234

Anyone know where to watch the recent gom matches?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11862159*
> Someone left me a rep saying Terran sucks......
> 
> YOUR RACE SUCKS AND I WONT GIVE U REP FOR IT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> PS thanks.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij;11864069*
> That was the rumor going around. It never really made any sense to me seeing as it's a Sunday and the last day of everyone's holiday.
> 
> If it happens at all this week, I'd expect a patch + reset on Tues/Wed/Thurs.


Ive also been told that reset is on Jan 2nd. I doubt it will happen today though. My guess is this Tuesday.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11865700*
> Oh... lol
> I was going to warn you about that, but when I joined your stream was already removed from TL I guess.
> But that doesn't have anything to do with VODs..


Nah, it was just added a few hours ago to TL actually. Takes a while for mods to approve.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11865980*
> Anyone know where to watch the recent gom matches?


http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?year=2011&league=Sponsorship1&round=32


----------



## CramComplex

finally bought a mini DisplayPort to VGA adapter...now I can play SC2 in ULTRA for all settings~


----------



## yks

they put you on TL yet, vdek?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11867007*
> they put you on TL yet, vdek?


Yah, but it only shows up when I'm streaming.


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Here are some of my games, I'm 2700 Protoss. Also if anyone wants to play vs me just add me. AMD.226
Replay pack 1
Replay pack 2


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11861056*
> Try my stream.
> 
> Sure, why not. I'll be streaming a lot of games on the way to the masters league. I'm trying to set up the stream as a really high quality stream.
> 
> Lol, sure.


Wait a sec, I also demand mod status









nah, it's fine :3
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11862159*
> Someone left me a rep saying Terran sucks......
> 
> YOUR RACE SUCKS AND I WONT GIVE U REP FOR IT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> PS thanks.










Darn, someone beat me to it XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11866702*
> finally bought a mini DisplayPort to VGA adapter...now I can play SC2 in ULTRA for all settings~


Sweet, same here, SC2 on ultra. Game seems a lot smoother but haven't had a match in 3 days :/


----------



## poroboszcz

Yay, a daily with oGsMC. And it's PvZ.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11868992*
> Yay, a daily with oGsMC. And it's PvZ.


"Day9 made me do it" I didn't hear that song til I saw the daily. I must be slacking on my TL lurking.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moheevi_chess;11867094*
> Here are some of my games, I'm 2700 Protoss. Also if anyone wants to play vs me just add me. AMD.226
> Replay pack 1
> Replay pack 2


So many high Protoss players on here.


----------



## yks

It's cause they have self-respect.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Day9*

god that daily went awesomely.

hope you guys enjoyed it. I learned a TON myself. So ******* awesome. PvZ here i come


One of the most informative dailies I've seen in a while, especially given my problems with PvZ. Pretty useful for players of all races though showing a cool way of analyzing a game.


----------



## thiru

I'm watching the most laughable semi finals ever seen in a tournament... Destiny (z) vs PsychonautQQ (P).

First game: psycho accuses the zerg of stream watching because he 'made lots of lings' without scouting his hidden twilight council (for blink)
Second game: psycho double proxy gates on scrap station, and GGs before he even lost his first zealot (because Destiny went pool before hatch).
Third game: psycho sees the 7 pool but doesn't react to it... doesn't even have a zealot when the lings arrive. Loses the game without making a single unit.

PsychonautQQ is 3000 protoss....









http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TheRushNetwork <-casters
http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii#/w/718880368/2 <-destiny, awesome and funny stream normally, and epic when he's trolling people like Psychonaut


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm watching the most laughable semi finals ever seen in a tournament... Destiny (z) vs PsychonautQQ (P).

First game: psycho accuses the zerg of stream watching because he 'made lots of lings' without scouting his hidden twilight council (for blink)
Second game: psycho double proxy gates on scrap station, and GGs before he even lost his first zealot (because Destiny went pool before hatch).
Third game: psycho sees the 7 pool but doesn't react to it... doesn't even have a zealot when the lings arrive. Loses the game without making a single unit.

PsychonautQQ is *3000 protoss*....









http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TheRushNetwork <-casters
http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii#/w/718880368/2 <-destiny, awesome and funny stream normally, and epic when he's trolling people like Psychonaut










u serious?








I mean game 2, without losing anything he gg's, then he doesn't react to a 7 pool in game 3? Whenever I see a 6 pool(every once in a while), I quickly scramble to get some defense or cb some zealots, build bunkers, etc.... Surprised a 3000 protoss doesn't do anything for a 7 pool


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


It's cause they have self-respect.


They shouldn't :hide:.


----------



## EmMure

fan games?


----------



## thiru

He said he didn't see it (even though his probe saw it).

Anyway the whole matchup was such a joke, psychonaut kept QQing about everything and after the first 2 games, he had to be convinced to play until BO5 (which is what it was supposed to be in the first place). And Destiny kept BM'ing and trolling him xD (the 7 pool was BM'ing, he didn't expect to win so easily).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


fan games?


not sure, tbh XD I haven't played a 1vs1 in a while, so, I might be on to play one only, since, I need to be in bed soon. Have to wake up early tommorrow X|


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He said he didn't see it (even though his probe saw it).

Anyway the whole matchup was such a joke, psychonaut kept QQing about everything and after the first 2 games, he had to be convinced to play until BO5 (which is what it was supposed to be in the first place). And Destiny kept *BM'ing and trolling him* xD (the 7 pool was BM'ing, he didn't expect to win so easily).


XD Nice, those games are fun to watch, any links for replays later?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11870294*
> XD Nice, those games are fun to watch, any links for replays later?


Of course









http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii#/w/718880368/2

Once he's done with this session, it will be uploaded (it will probably his last VOD), complete with Destiny's commentaries (because he streams), which is pretty hilarious.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11870312*
> Of course
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii#/w/718880368/2
> 
> Once he's done with this session, it will be uploaded, complete with Destiny's commentaries (because he streams), which is pretty hilarious.


Sweet, thanks, he's a rep for your hard work XD

Plan cancelled, going to do some benchies instead


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sweet, thanks, he's a rep for your hard work XD

Plan cancelled, going to do some benchies instead










No problem.

LOL finals, Destiny is like "bro, he's turtling what should i do?... I should ask google"
And he opens up google and writes "how to stop protoss turtle"

Also he won after a failed 7 pooled xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


No problem.

LOL finals, Destiny is like "bro, he's turtling what should i do?... I should ask google"
And he *opens up google and writes "how to stop protoss turtle"*
Also he won after a failed 7 pooled xD


oh, wow, maybe I should've watched that instead, but, who cares, I have the replays anyways








That must've been hilarious though. Are these guys playing seriously because it sounds like they are playing for fun and not to be competitive?


----------



## DoomDash

I know cooler people in Observer Mars.


----------



## thiru

Well Destiny's a 3k zerg and he plays like one. The previous player certainly didn't play like a 3k protoss, and this other opponent is 2.5k... so he's taking the whole thing as a joke.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I know cooler people in Observer Mars.


All I'll ask is this:


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


All I'll ask is this:


















He's talking about qxc I'm sure.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well Destiny's a 3k zerg and he plays like one. The previous player certainly didn't play like a 3k protoss, and this other opponent is 2.5k... so he's taking the whole thing as a joke.


hmm, maybe I should forget about benchies and watch this instead XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He's talking about qxc I'm sure.


lol, to each his own









Edit: At least his stream is understandable, lol. I tried qxc couple of days back, was hard to hear anything with all the screaming, lol, not his fault though. Now they are talking about a squirrel XD


----------



## thiru

qxc's stream is cool, and it's pretty funny how people troll him ingame and troll his opponents too.

But Destiny's the best in terms of entertainment. BM, jokes, trolling, raging, ranting... he does it all and it's almost always hilarious.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11870379*
> He's talking about qxc I'm sure.


I was talking about me.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11870420*
> I was talking about me.


You should stream then.
Awesome people => awesome streams.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, to each his own









Edit: At least his stream is understandable, lol. I tried qxc couple of days back, was hard to hear anything with all the screaming, lol, not his fault though. Now they are talking about a squirrel XD


Last time he had his friends there... its less annoying but just as funny with out them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Last time he had his friends there... its less annoying but just as funny with out them.


Likely true









39 double cheeseburgers for the $40 top prize XD

Edit: Nice, 7RR and a failure XD


----------



## yks

Thiru, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/yksant

add meh

accidentally deleted my other show, so if you were following me, refollow.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11870482*
> Thiru, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/yksant
> 
> add meh
> 
> accidentally deleted my other show, so if you were following me, refollow.


Do I add you to the first page or are you still doing stuff with it?

Follow'd you


----------



## yks

front page, plox


----------



## BigFan

He's playing a serious game now, watch him!


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11870520*
> front page, plox


Cool








adding


----------



## BigFan

Final game, last one was interesting









Edit: nevermind, BO7, not BO5









Edit2: Nice split on his part and multitasking as well with those multiple sling attacks


----------



## nlsthzn

Well... I am foregoing sleep to watch GSL4 round 2... some epic games thus far... I guess I am going to suffer this coming night shift ... but I will enjoy it till then


----------



## DoomDash

http://kotaku.com/5723117/little-gir...-sweetcraft-ii

Also looks like that guy on Europe with the sick record is #1 now, look at that ( also changed his name ):

http://sc2ranks.com/


----------



## thiru

If you guys want your replays on the OP, just post a link here.

A link to your sc2replays.com profile (or similar) would be easier to manage.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://kotaku.com/5723117/little-gir...-sweetcraft-ii

Also looks like that guy on Europe with the sick record is #1 now, look at that ( also changed his name ):

http://sc2ranks.com/


lol she's soo adorable









Still no clue on who that guy is?


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...&profile_name=


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...&profile_name=


Adding. You got anything to add for a short description other than 2,300 points Terran?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Adding. You got anything to add for a short description other than 2,300 points Terran?


Highest rated Terran player on oc.net? IDK







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Highest rated Terran player on Overclock.net? IDK







.


lol
I dunno maybe your strongest matchup or playstyle?
I could instead link to individual replays for precise examples of strats but I might end up with a lot of replays.

EDIT:
alternatively, you can make a dedicated post here, and link/upload all your replays in it, with short descriptions, and I will put a link in the OP to your post. You can then edit your post as you add replays. If you want to take the time to write details for individual or groups of replays this would be the best way.


----------



## vdek

This is the #5 thread by views and #2 by posts in this section of the forums! Wow. Biggest thread of OCN soon.


----------



## Mwarren

Nice, on an 11 game win streak at the moment







.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Nice, on an 11 game win streak at the moment







.


Nice! I got to play 6 games last night... up 3 down 3...









Good thing I enjoy this game







Also got to see my first live GSL games today, some epic games... IMMvp was pretty impressive! (going to be a long night shift as I didn't sleep any because of this







)


----------



## charleshan

Quick question about Starcraft 2 settings. I have an envy 15 with i7 720qm, mobile radeon HD 4830, 6gb and what settings should it be able to handle at 1920x1080? I'm just wondering if my laptop is running underclocked right now.


----------



## l337sft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleshan;11873839*
> Quick question about Starcraft 2 settings. I have an envy 15 with i7 720qm, mobile radeon HD 4830, 6gb and what settings should it be able to handle at 1920x1080? I'm just wondering if my laptop is running underclocked right now.


You shouldnt have a problem running it at any settings. Its all based on what you want, lower the settings for a constant steady FPS because when battles heat up the fps tends to drop. Just experiement with different settings


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleshan;11873839*
> Quick question about Starcraft 2 settings. I have an envy 15 with i7 720qm, mobile radeon HD 4830, 6gb and what settings should it be able to handle at 1920x1080? I'm just wondering if my laptop is running underclocked right now.


hmm, maybe medium settings with decent fps. I mean your cpu, ram, etc... is fine. The HD4830 isn't a bad card, but, doubt it'll come close to high, yet alone ultra settings








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11872543*
> If you guys want your replays on the OP, just post a link here.
> 
> A link to your sc2replays.com profile (or similar) would be easier to manage.
> 
> lol *she's soo adorable*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still no clue on who that guy is?


She really is adorable. Love the, "I see them", "see what", "shooties"









Yes, please, can you post a link to my replays, although I already have it in my sig. Mention my ranking as a Silver Random(previously Zerg) and mention that the replays have some interesting battles and are fun to watch, etc....
Thanks


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleshan;11873839*
> Quick question about Starcraft 2 settings. I have an envy 15 with i7 720qm, mobile radeon HD 4830, 6gb and what settings should it be able to handle at 1920x1080? I'm just wondering if my laptop is running underclocked right now.


Ok, I am not running the game at such high resolutions, but my Q6600, 4GB RAM and a 8800GT handles the game easily enough on high @ 1280x1024, just as a reference...


----------



## Mwarren

If you plan on playing competitively I would just run it with all low settings, tried it with medium and high settings and the graphics just become too distracting in my opinion. Not to mention that when you go into large battles your fps will be higher with lower settings.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11875547*
> If you plan on playing competitively I would just run it with all low settings, tried it with medium and high settings and the graphics just become too distracting in my opinion. Not to mention that when you go into large battles your fps will be higher with lower settings.


I've seen that excuse used a lot, but personally all the glitzy stuff just gets ignored in my mind when something big is happening.

Doomdash was calling me slow the other day for just noticing the iPistol advertisments in Metalopolis.


----------



## Mwarren

It's not an excuse, its almost a fact that if there's a lot of flashy stuff going on the screen with high poly count shaders in the background that it'll be harder to focus. I've read that most pro gamers play on all low and its the same for most competitive games (Counter Strike comes to mind). When I play on all low settings the mouse movement feels smoother too, possibly because there's less pixels for my cursor to go over. Microing feels a lot harder with higher graphics too, marine splitting becomes a pain in the ass.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11875656*
> It's not an excuse, its almost a fact that if there's a lot of flashy stuff going on the screen with high poly count shaders in the background that it'll be harder to focus. I've read that most pro gamers play on all low and its the same for most competitive games (Counter Strike comes to mind). When I play on all low settings the mouse movement feels smoother too, possibly because there's less pixels for my cursor to go over. Microing feels a lot harder with higher graphics too, marine splitting becomes a pain in the ass.


I dunno, I mean I don't see why it'll be harder. Yes, playing at low settings makes it easier on the eye but 1vs1 and playing on a decent system, you shouldn't have many issues with many units on screen. I was playing with my 8800gts @ 1080p everything on ultra(high textures, low lighting(since this causes fluctuations)) and was getting around 45fps easy. I also don't find the environment or colors distracting although compared to low, they are definitely vibrant


----------



## ThumperSD

Yea I dont know how your mouse would be less accurate with high settings. I play on ultra @ 1920x1200 with 40-120 fps (70-80 average) and I dont have any problems. TLO claims you can see cloaked units better on low settings but IDK. Day9 did say you should NOT set your mouse sensitivity in game in increments of 5%. For example if your sensitivity is @ 70%, you should set it to 66-69 or 71-74 instead.

On another note, can somebody post the link to this morning's GSL matches?


----------



## nlsthzn

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/schedule/ (but I think you need to have a season pass to watch them all... not sure)


----------



## DoomDash

I play on Ultra settings coming from low, and I'll never go back. No advantage besides if you prefer the look of SC1 graphics.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11877315*
> I play on Ultra settings coming from low, and I'll never go back. No advantage besides if you prefer the look of SC1 graphics.


SC has been laggy for me today..It's almost unplayable.

You guys should sign up for this tournament tonight:

http://www.z33k.com/starcraft2/tournaments/100-justin-tv-qualifier-4/teams


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11877050*
> Yea I dont know how your mouse would be less accurate with high settings. I play on ultra @ 1920x1200 with 40-120 fps (70-80 average) and I dont have any problems. TLO claims you can see cloaked units better on low settings but IDK. Day9 did say you should NOT set your mouse sensitivity in game in increments of 5%. For example if your sensitivity is @ 70%, you should set it to 66-69 or 71-74 instead.
> 
> On another note, can somebody post the link to this morning's GSL matches?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181383

For result spoilers.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



HOLY **** FRUITDEALER got knocked down to up/down brackets


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11877120*
> http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/schedule/ (but I think you need to have a season pass to watch them all... not sure)


Thanks, rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11877545*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181383
> 
> For result spoilers.


I dont mind spoilers


----------



## yks

I just bought a GOM Pass and I'ma be watching some of the games right now.

I'll restream if you guys want so you can watch with me.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11877710*
> I just bought a GOM Pass and I'ma be watching some of the games right now.
> 
> I'll restream if you guys want so you can watch with me.


@ $9.99 I think the GSL should be supported... that helps to make it all possible... just my 2c worth...


----------



## DoomDash

Brutal is fun / challenging for SCII.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Battlenet down for everyone or just in Europe or just me? lol

Matt


----------



## nlsthzn

*edit: Euro server is back up...*

Seems to be Europe only

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181583

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1415207811

Cheers


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Cheers nlsthzn, I thought it might have been the ladder reset/patch people have been talking about but alas it appears not









Matt


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox;11879420*
> Cheers nlsthzn, I thought it might have been the ladder reset/patch people have been talking about but alas it appears not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt


Yup, the link I posted to the TL forum was about just that... a lot of wild speculation


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11877120*
> http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/schedule/ (but I think you need to have a season pass to watch them all... not sure)


What the hells up with all of the no namers? Wheres Idra, TLO, Qck, Jinro, Huk, Painuser, etc....Those most be guys that switched from SC1.

EDIT: Is GSL primarily an Asian league?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11879998*
> What the hells up with all of the no namers? Wheres Idra, TLO, Qck, Jinro, Huk, Painuser, etc....Those most be guys that switched from SC1.
> 
> EDIT: Is GSL primarily an Asian league?


You don't watch much GSL, do ya?

Idra and Jinro play on the 11th.

HuK didn't qualify for GSL 3.
If TLO stayed in Korea he would've been high Code A, _maybe_ Low Code S.
I don't know who Qck is, if you mean Qxc, he hasn't gone to Korea for GSL; same for Painuser.

And they aren't no-namers, except for some of the GSL1 guys.

GSL is held in Korea, but foreigners are welcome. GOM even will set you up with room and board while you are in the GSL.


----------



## nlsthzn

lol, I am a total nub and even I have an idea about the GSL... that is where the big boys play


----------



## DoomDash

Nice avatar nlsthzn +1 rep







.


----------



## yks

GOM streams @ 640x360 (16:9) @ 500kbps?

This is news to me.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


GOM streams @ 640x360 (16:9) @ 500kbps?

This is news to me.


Is that the SQ or the HQ stream? (I know the SQ is supposed to be 450kbps but I don't know the resolution)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nice avatar nlsthzn +1 rep







.


Cheers... (just a pity I don't do the Terrans any justice when I play them







)


----------



## yks

Hq


----------



## Twistacles

God damn. I just signed up for a z33k tourny, and I end up playing vVv Murder first round.

Lols were not to be had.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Brutal is fun / *challenging* for SCII.


Well, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be called that XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nice avatar nlsthzn +1 rep







.


lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


God damn. I just signed up for a z33k tourny, and I end up playing vVv Murder first round.

Lols were not to be had.


vVv Murder? Who's that?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You don't watch much GSL, do ya?

Idra and Jinro play on the 11th.

HuK didn't qualify for GSL 3.
If TLO stayed in Korea he would've been high Code A, _maybe_ Low Code S.
I don't know who Qck is, if you mean Qxc, he hasn't gone to Korea for GSL; same for Painuser.

And they aren't no-namers, except for some of the GSL1 guys.

GSL is held in Korea, but foreigners are welcome. GOM even will set you up with room and board while you are in the GSL.


That's awesome, guessing you still have to pay for the room though


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That's awesome, guessing you still have to pay for the room though










Free.99


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Free.99


----------



## yks

You never heard the term Free 99? Means free.

GOM has a place for foreigners to stay at for free while they are participating in the GSL.

I heard tastosis reference this, but can't find the proof. But here's the John the translator proof:

  
 You Tube  



 
@ 4:50


----------



## Sainesk

wow that is awesome of GOM to do, now if only I could take them up on that offer one day...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You never heard the term Free 99? Means free.

GOM has a place for foreigners to stay at for free while they are participating in the GSL.

I heard tastosis reference this, but can't find the proof. But here's the John the translator proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrXnnz861xo

@ 4:50


Nope, never heard of that term









That's nice though, means that one can pay the ticket and not have to worry about where to stay


----------



## EmMure

big games?


----------



## thiru

IIRC GOMtv will fund your stay during the qualifiers or something like that, I can't remember.


----------



## DoomDash

qxc streaming. 
http://www.justin.tv/rootqxc#/w/722441248/3


----------



## thiru

Boxer reinventing Terran macro... mass orbital commands for mass mules


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11884306*
> Boxer reinventing Terran macro... mass orbital commands for mass mules


WHAT? yks or vdek you must stream these games for me.


----------



## nlsthzn

Sadly missed today's games, was just to tired QQ (fell asleep in front of the PC this morning watching the latest Day9 daily, actually was starting to fall from my chair)...

Will have to checkout the results when I hit work... speaking of which... I'M LATE!!!11!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11885028*
> Sadly missed today's games, was just to tired QQ (fell asleep in front of the PC this morning watching the latest Day9 daily, actually was starting to fall from my chair)...
> 
> Will have to checkout the results when I hit work... speaking of which... I'M LATE!!!11!


What league are you in?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11884306*
> Boxer reinventing Terran macro... mass orbital commands for mass mules


Tons of TL threads on those kinds of builds. I actually had a Terran do that to me earlier, did a 2Rax push and made 4 OCs... I think he had about 100 SCVs towards the end of the game :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11884828*
> WHAT? yks or vdek you must stream these games for me.


I can restream it later tonight since I missed it myself.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11885079*
> 
> I can restream it later tonight since I missed it myself.


Please wait for me.







Will rep you







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11885282*
> Please wait for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will rep you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sure sure. Going to have to set my stream to offline though on TL while I restream lest I get removed >_>.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11885079*
> Tons of TL threads on those kinds of builds. I actually had a Terran do that to me earlier, did a 2Rax push and made 4 OCs... I think he had about 100 SCVs towards the end of the game :/
> 
> I can restream it later tonight since I missed it myself.


Yeah but this is Boxer and he's special ^^


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11884306*
> Boxer reinventing Terran macro... mass orbital commands for mass mules


Nope, he's not reinventing it there. There have been many threads on TL about OC farming as its called where you just build many OCs and use the ton of mules for mining. Considering they dont take up supply, you can probably the focus the 50 supply or so from SCV onto making units having a bigger army than your opponent. An interesting idea which I might try in a future game


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11885458*
> Nope, he's not reinventing it there. There have been many threads on TL about OC farming as its called where you just build many OCs and use the ton of mules for mining. Considering they dont take up supply, you can probably the focus the 50 supply or so from SCV onto making units having a bigger army than your opponent. An interesting idea which I might try in a future game


I did it the other day in a 2v2, had about 8 OC's feeding 15 raxs with 10 reactors and 2 starports with 2 reactors. Lose an army, remake it within a minute. Heh. Each base would get mined out so quickly because of all the mules...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11885512*
> I did it the other day in a 2v2, had about 8 OC's feeding 15 raxs with 10 reactors and 2 starports with 2 reactors. Lose an army, remake it within a minute. Heh. Each base would get mined out so quickly because of all the mules...


Thing is, 2vs2s, you can afford to make many OCs, since, you can depend on your partner, but, in 1vs1, sometimes you need every resource because you constantly trade armies with opponent


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11885458*
> Nope, he's not reinventing it there. There have been many threads on TL about OC farming as its called where you just build many OCs and use the ton of mules for mining. Considering they dont take up supply, you can probably the focus the 50 supply or so from SCV onto making units having a bigger army than your opponent. An interesting idea which I might try in a future game


Are they at the pro level and have they refined the build enough that they're confident enough to use it in a $88K tournament?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11885512*
> I did it the other day in a 2v2, had about 8 OC's feeding 15 raxs with 10 reactors and 2 starports with 2 reactors. Lose an army, remake it within a minute. Heh. Each base would get mined out so quickly because of all the mules...


Thing is, in 2vs2, you can afford to make many OCs because of relying on your partner, however, in 1vs1, sometimes you are trading armies and building many OCs even our time can cause you issues. Don't help if you have to keep your resources low either


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11885620*
> Are they at the pro level and have they refined the build enough that they're confident enough to use it in a $88K tournament?


Doesn't matter, point is, it wasn't boxer's idea, not sure who thought of mass OCs first, he's just making it more viable =)


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Figured out a faster baneling bust against AI. Takes about a minute less time than the older bust I've been using against Terrans. Haven't tried it against human opponents yet.

drone to 10
extractor - 9/10
drone to 10
extractor trick - 11/10
overlord
put 2 drones on gas
pool
drone to 16
metabolic boost as soon as pool is done
queen - 18/18
baneling nest - 17/18
zergling for scouting - 18/18
overlord
overlord - 18/34
move one more drone onto gas
queen appears, spawn immediately
zerglings to 28/34
morph 8 banelings at about 5:15
zerglings until banelings finish morphing
- - - - -
attack the enemy ramp at about 5:45 with 12 speedlings and 8 banelings, 4 lings running across map to reinforce the attack, 8 lings in production and rallied to the point of attack.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11885726*
> Figured out a faster baneling bust against AI. Takes about a minute less time than the older bust I've been using against Terrans. Haven't tried it against human opponents yet.
> 
> drone to 10
> extractor - 9/10
> drone to 10
> extractor trick - 11/10
> overlord
> put 2 drones on gas
> pool
> drone to 16
> metabolic boost as soon as pool is done
> queen - 18/18
> baneling nest - 17/18
> zergling for scouting - 18/18
> overlord
> overlord - 18/34
> move one more drone onto gas
> queen appears, spawn immediately
> zerglings to 28/34
> morph 8 banelings at about 5:15
> zerglings until banelings finish morphing
> - - - - -
> attack the enemy ramp at about 5:45 with 12 speedlings and 8 banelings, 4 lings running across map to reinforce the attack, 8 lings in production and rallied to the point of attack.


Nice, never tried to bane bust any opponent before







Have you tried posting this on battle.net or TL?


----------



## thiru

Unless you're participating in tournaments, what's the point of spending time refining an all-in?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11885741*
> Nice, never tried to bane bust any opponent before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried posting this on battle.net or TL?


I want to see how well it works first. I have a good baneling bust that hits between 6:45 and 7 minutes, but I wanted something a little faster. The better Terran players can defend a bust at 7 minutes.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11885758*
> Unless you're participating in tournaments, what's the point of spending time refining an all-in?


Baneling bust is not necessarily an all-in. If you do it right gas and mineral production will be strong enough to start a lair while the attack is in progress. I've even had lair done and an expo half finished before the attack was over.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11885832*
> Baneling bust is not necessarily an all-in. If you do it right gas and mineral production will be strong enough to start a lair while the attack is in progress. I've even had lair done and an expo half finished before the attack was over.


What's your drone count after the baneling bust?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11885883*
> What's your drone count after the baneling bust?


Good question. I'll have to go back and look. My 7 minute bust works pretty well but I don't have all the details written down. I know I always end up accumulating more resources than I can spend on the larvae from one hatchery, so I usually start a lair or extra queens while the attack is still ongoing.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11885968*
> Good question. I'll have to go back and look. My 7 minute bust works pretty well but I don't have all the details written down. I know I always end up accumulating more resources than I can spend on the larvae from one hatchery, so I usually start a lair or extra queens while the attack is still ongoing.


That is a great idea. As long as you have a mid and long term plan, then it doesnt really sound like an all in. The fact that you still scout your opponent kinda puts me at ease with this strat of yours.

WHat kind of strategies would mess up this order from your opponents's point of view (bunker rush, 2 rax marine push etc..)


----------



## thiru

lol I'm watching TLO's stream and I have to say, Terrans in German sound way cooler









edit: rofl the tank sometimes yells "RAWK N RAWL" xD


----------



## Mwarren

The problem with a baneling bust is that if scouted its basically a waste of gas and minerals. You might get a few supply depots or bunkers and if none of has rines die and hes teching to stim than that could mean a GG in the near future.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11885758*
> Unless you're participating in tournaments, what's the point of spending time refining an all-in?


It's always good to perfect several different builds for all races. For example, in a tournament if your playing a best of 7 you don't want to do the same exact build every game, and keep your opponent on his toes. Psychologically if you beat your opponent early with cheese he may prepare for the same cheese, or make mistakes all of which benefits you.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11885758*
> Unless you're participating in tournaments, what's the point of spending time refining an all-in?


The same as in refining any other strategy or element of your play. What do tournaments have to do with it? It's a part of the game unless you plan on staying in like bronze forever.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11888185*
> It's always good to perfect several different builds for all races. For example, in a tournament if your playing a best of 7 you don't want to do the same exact build every game, and keep your opponent on his toes. Psychologically if you beat your opponent early with cheese he may prepare for the same cheese, or make mistakes all of which benefits you.


I said outside of tournaments.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11888192*
> The same as in refining any other strategy or element of your play. What do tournaments have to do with it? It's a part of the game unless you plan on staying in like bronze forever.


So if you were giving advice to a bronze player, you'd tell him to practice all-in strats?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11887949*
> edit: Rofl the tank sometimes yells "rawk n rawl" xd


XD XD

What's wrong with all-ins? Of course, you'll want your bronze friend to learn how to play the game first, but, he should know about the different all-ins


----------



## nlsthzn

I am bronze and my next few games I will be trying to get a 2rax working like IMMvp... not sure it will benefit me too much in Bronze but I like the looks of it


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11888226*
> I said outside of tournaments.
> 
> So if you were giving advice to a bronze player, you'd tell him to practice all-in strats?


Doesn't matter all-in or not. Refined builds are essential on the ladder as much as they are in tournaments. Probably a bronze player would have more fundamental issues, but I can't see why practicing a smooth build order execution, thus learning some of these fundamentals, wouldn't help.


----------



## Nevaziah

Well, try all the strategies, even all ins. Because in bronze, you can get away with a lot of things, and you can even set yourself behind with agression strategies that weaken your late game economy and still be able to pull ahead. WIth this strategy you will learn:

- Baneling micro (when to send lings first, and when to send banes first etc...)
- Baneling strenghts and weaknesses
- Your strenghts and weaknesses regarding micro, controling speed lings and banelings, recovering from a weakened economy etc...
- Keeping pressure on your opponent early and holding him/her boxed in.

every strategy should teach you something, even all-ins or economy-weak strategies.
Heck, who knows, eventually you might find a sweet spot where you can early expand AND at the same time baneling tech to bust up a terran concentrating on barrak units etc. Something good can come of it if you perfect it and tweak it around different matchups and unit compositions from your opponents.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;11888396*
> Well, try all the strategies, even all ins. Because in bronze, you can get away with a lot of things, and you can even set yourself behind with agression strategies that weaken your late game economy and still be able to pull ahead. WIth this strategy you will learn:
> 
> - Baneling micro (when to send lings first, and when to send banes first etc...)
> - Baneling strenghts and weaknesses
> - Your strenghts and weaknesses regarding micro, controling speed lings and banelings, recovering from a weakened economy etc...
> - Keeping pressure on your opponent early and holding him/her boxed in.
> 
> every strategy should teach you something, even all-ins or economy-weak strategies.
> Heck, who knows, eventually you might find a sweet spot where you can early expand AND at the same time baneling tech to bust up a terran concentrating on barrak units etc. Something good can come of it if you perfect it and tweak it around different matchups and unit compositions from your opponents.


Pretty much true







You can get away with a lot in Bronze, likely in Silver, possibly Gold as well, doubt it in Plat or Diamond


----------



## yks

I wake up to read about Boxer. ~!!!!! Doom are you gonna watch it with vdek? If so, I'ma watch it soon.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11889019*
> I wake up to read about Boxer. ~!!!!! Doom are you gonna watch it with vdek? If so, I'ma watch it soon.


... man ... so annoyed at not getting up to watch the matches... and now I am stuck at work... methinks I have to invest in a season pass with GomTV... then I can watch the games anytime









brb (where is my paypal account








)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Was the games yesterday? or today/tomorrow morning?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11889415*
> Was the games yesterday? or today/tomorrow morning?


it was about ten hours ago (give or take)... Jan 04, 2011 20:00 KST(GMT+9)

Got my season pass btw







- 10 bucks well spend I think


----------



## vdek

Going to start soonTM.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11889728*
> Going to start in about 15-20 minutes.


nice, linky or I presume its in the first post?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11889789*
> nice, linky or I presume its in the first post?


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku

I'm going to wait till doom gets on though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11889809*
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku
> 
> I'm going to wait till doom gets on though.


oh, it's np, I can wait, will likely be taking looks here and there as I oc and bench









BTW, you might wanna fix this:
*Stracraft* II games from a Diamond Level zerg player


----------



## Allenssmart

guys my starcraft 2 is messed up. i need helpzorz. video included:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKEYAjP36A[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


guys my starcraft 2 is messed up. i need helpzorz. video included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKEYAjP36A


Again? I thought you fixed it by disabling that core that someone mentioned in another thread?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

hahah that's pretty strange


----------



## thiru

LOL TLO is listening to Hell March while playing SC2


----------



## nlsthzn

I still have the music video from C&C3... "Marching..."

Epic for TLO... btw, anybody know why he isn't in the GSL?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I still have the music video from C&C3... "Marching..."

Epic for TLO... btw, anybody know why he isn't in the GSL?


I think it was the version from Red Alert 2.

TLO went back to Germany.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I still have the music video from C&C3... "Marching..."

Epic for TLO... btw, anybody know why he isn't in the GSL?


He didn't bother trying to qualify for it I think, probably didn't want to go all of the way out to Korea with such a low chance of winning.


----------



## thiru

Mmmh this got me thinking... instead of playing more or less calm music for my nerves, maybe I should play stuff like Hell March to channel it instead.

And for everyone's enjoyment:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WqwFhX6Cqg[/ame]


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think it was the version from Red Alert 2.

TLO went back to Germany.


Cool... I never played C&C for some reason, but did try my hand at Red Alert 3 (which has the awesome remix of the March)...

I do remember reading something about him going back... I do however think the US/Euro players should try and feature more in things like the GSL, it is just a big boost for e-Sports around the globe when things like this happen... two out of 30 and only 3 out of the whole group of 96 (I think) is just too small...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


Cool... I never played C&C for some reason, but did try my hand at Red Alert 3 (which has the awesome remix of the March)...

I do remember reading something about him going back... I do however think the US/Euro players should try and feature more in things like the GSL, it is just a big boost for e-Sports around the globe when things like this happen... two out of 30 and only 3 out of the whole group of 96 (I think) is just too small...


The problem is that you actually have to live in Korea for months at a time to try your hand at the GSL.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


He didn't bother trying to qualify for it I think, probably didn't want to go all of the way out to Korea with such a low chance of winning.


He qualified for 1 and 2 with relative ease.

He said he injured his hand and was feeling homesick and returned to Germany for "personal reasons"

I'd be homesick too. He was there for like 5 months in the oGs house.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


He qualified for 1 and 2 with relative ease.

He said he injured his hand and was feeling homesick and returned to Germany for "personal reasons"

I'd be homesick too. He was there for like 5 months in the oGs house.


Yeah he's not a robot like Idra.


----------



## nlsthzn

I can imagine that it can't be easy.. the guys that have done the best in Korea in SC1 (foreigners I mean) basically migrated and stayed there...

I think they should have a World Cup of sorts, could have the best of the best play each other once a year or something... could even make it totally virtual with stadiums in several countries to facilitate it (not sure how the networking for the different regions would work etc. but sure it could be done)...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


He qualified for 1 and 2 with relative ease.

He said he injured his hand and was feeling homesick and returned to Germany for "personal reasons"

I'd be homesick too. He was there for like 5 months in the oGs house.


Qualifying is 1 thing but making S class is another, don't you think? Anyways, I cant blame him for not wanting to stay in Korea for months at a time. I wouldn't even go there to play in the GSL if I was in the top ten in the world. It would probably be a huge culture shock and that's too far away from home for me. They need to get leagues as big as GSL here in the states.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah he's not a robot like Idra.


Yeah, but Idra has his own house and lives alone.

TLO was in a 2bedroom apartment with ~20 people. 5bunkbeds in each room.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


He qualified for 1 and 2 with relative ease.

He said he injured his hand and was feeling homesick and returned to Germany for "personal reasons"

I'd be homesick too. He was there for like 5 months in the oGs house.


hmm, I do recall him playing against a P on steppes of war and doing a MM+thor attack with SCVs for bunker and turrets against dts


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Yeah, but Idra has his own house and lives alone.

TLO was in a 2bedroom apartment with ~20 people. 5bunkbeds in each room.


You mean Idra's not sleeping on Artosis's couch anymore?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11890680*
> You mean Idra's not sleeping on Artosis's couch anymore?


XD Where did you hear that?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11890547*
> Cool... I never played C&C for some reason, but did try my hand at Red Alert 3 (which has the awesome remix of the March)...


This is actually a remix of the original one from Red Alert, the best one there was.

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtb4uow940c&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtb4uow940c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtb4uow940c&feature=related[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Qualifying is 1 thing but making S class is another, don't you think? Anyways, I cant blame him for not wanting to stay in Korea for months at a time. I wouldn't even go there to play in the GSL if I was in the top ten in the world. It would probably be a huge culture shock and that's too far away from home for me. They need to get leagues as big as GSL here in the states.


Depending on how he placed in GSL 3 if he stayed, he would've been high-A/low-S or higher.

jookTo made it to Code S getting 32/64/64 (and he was lowest Code-S who barely made it)

TLO got 32/64/* so if he got into 64, he would've played in the Code-S tiebreakers

if he made it to ro32, he would've been permanent Code-S.

So he's already Code-S material. A lot of people in Code-A belong in Code-S too.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


XD Where did you hear that?










omg facepalm thank you. i reinstalled my computer and forgot that the cores were both enabled again by default lol. thanks! i feel embarassed


----------



## poroboszcz

I can't register at ustream. It says my email is in invalid format, while it isn't.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11890680*
> You mean Idra's not sleeping on Artosis's couch anymore?


Yeah, he moved in with Tasteless, =P

jk.

I heard InControl talk about Idras apartment on a SOTG podcast


----------



## thiru

Apparently Effka's the first female to win a Craftcup.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Depending on how he placed in GSL 3 if he stayed, he would've been high-A/low-S or higher.

jookTo made it to Code S getting 32/64/64 (and he was lowest Code-S who barely made it)

TLO got 32/64/* so if he got into 64, he would've played in the Code-S tiebreakers

*if he made it to ro32, he would've been permanent Code-S.*

So he's already Code-S material. A lot of people in Code-A belong in Code-S too.


Nothing like a permanent Code S any longer... some of the most notable names in Korea already facing a possibility to get bumped down to code A...


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11890727*
> This is actually a remix of the original one from Red Alert, the best one there was.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtb4uow940c&feature=related


[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIRPcICB-iY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIRPcICB-iY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIRPcICB-iY[/ame[/URL]]

"All your base are belong to us!"








double post - sorry!


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


The problem with a baneling bust is that if scouted its basically a waste of gas and minerals. You might get a few supply depots or bunkers and if none of has rines die and hes teching to stim than that could mean a GG in the near future.


If scouted you can always choose to NOT bust. The bling nest will be useful throughout the entire game.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


guys my starcraft 2 is messed up. i need helpzorz. video included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKEYAjP36A


Have you contacted Blizz?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11890777*
> Depending on how he placed in GSL 3 if he stayed, he would've been high-A/low-S or higher.
> 
> jookTo made it to Code S getting 32/64/64 (and he was lowest Code-S who barely made it)
> 
> TLO got 32/64/* so if he got into 64, he would've played in the Code-S tiebreakers
> 
> if he made it to ro32, he would've been permanent Code-S.
> 
> So he's already Code-S material. A lot of people in Code-A belong in Code-S too.


Interesting, think I can make Code-S?







XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11890779*
> omg facepalm thank you. i reinstalled my computer and forgot that the cores were both enabled again by default lol. thanks! i feel embarassed


np, anytime








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11890945*
> If scouted you can always choose to NOT bust. The bling nest will be useful throughout the entire game.


True indeed, could always decide against the attack if scouted and against T, that baneling nest will come in very handy









Edit: Vdek started his stream for anyone who is interested


----------



## Mwarren

The bling nest will come in handy but those banes/zerglings sitting around doing nothing wont. They were potential drones and the gas you spent on blings could of been used on tech or upgrades.


----------



## BigFan

Let's hope vdek gets some AA asap.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Are they at the pro level and have they refined the build enough that they're confident enough to use it in a $88K tournament?


Exactly hehe.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I wake up to read about Boxer. ~!!!!! Doom are you gonna watch it with vdek? If so, I'ma watch it soon.


Yes he will be starting any second.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


The bling nest will come in handy but those banes/zerglings sitting around doing nothing wont. They were potential drones and the gas you spent on blings could of been used on tech or upgrades.


Do you rally your zergling near his base before morphing them to blings? If so, there is an extremely small window where he can scout them. Even if he does scout them early, cancel it and retreat. You dont typically want to morph the blings in your base before sending them to his base for a bust.


----------



## BigFan

Guys, climax at this point in vdek's game


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11890859*
> Nothing like a permanent Code S any longer... some of the most notable names in Korea already facing a possibility to get bumped down to code A...


What I meant was when they were determining the Code-S players, his spot would've been solidified for GSL4 instead of having to play in the tie-breakers.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11891196*
> Guys, climax at this point in vdek's game


Heh, that was a funny game.


----------



## Allenssmart

omg i never knew bunkers were so good. i always got roach rush gg'd 8 minutes in the game but then i built two bunkers. i defnded the attack and ran into his base. i just learned something today XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11891567*
> omg i never knew bunkers were so good. i always got roach rush gg'd 8 minutes in the game but then i built two bunkers. i defnded the attack and ran into his base. i just learned something today XD


<3 bunkers. Roach rushing hahahhaah.


----------



## Allenssmart

somebody said i was "floating like crazy" and apparently its a bad thing. can someone enlighten me on what this means?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11891567*
> omg i never knew bunkers were so good. i always got roach rush gg'd 8 minutes in the game but then i built two bunkers. i defnded the attack and ran into his base. i just learned something today XD


After the umpteenth time getting crushed by Protos in the opening minutes I asked the guy crushing me what I could have done to stop him and he was like "build a bunker..." I was like







then







then







and now I have







thanks









one more...









Phew (quota used for the day...)


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11891756*
> somebody said i was "floating like crazy" and apparently its a bad thing. can someone enlighten me on what this means?


It means you have too much money. Money not spent on units/upgrades/production facilities is wasted money.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11891872*
> It means you have too much money. Money not spent on units/upgrades/production facilities is wasted money.


yep, I'm a master at that XD


----------



## nlsthzn

That makes three of us









I still have no idea how many unit producing structures to have at what time of the game or to be optimum for the amount of expansions I have... so if the game starts getting a bit long I never seem to be able to spend all I got...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11891940*
> yep, I'm a master at that XD


----------



## yks

Most likely an OCN get-together tonight.

Let me know if you're down.

Doom, Me, Vdek, Sovern, so far.

We'll be streaming for those of you who can't join us.

For those of you who want to play message me or anyone else that's in it.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Most likely an OCN get-together tonight.

Let me know if you're down.

Doom, Me, Vdek, Sovern, so far.

We'll be streaming for those of you who can't join us.

For those of you who want to play message me or anyone else that's in it.


I will be home in another hour and a half... if you guys are streaming I will love to watch... this would be nice to see...


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan get on bnet.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hey thanks for the gsl stream vdek


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


omg i never knew bunkers were so good. i always got roach rush gg'd 8 minutes in the game but then i built two bunkers. i defnded the attack and ran into his base. i just learned something today XD


Bunkers kinda suck against early banelings. As a zerg player I like to see them because you blow them up with the marines inside. My favorite thing to see is a wall-off consisting of a bunker flanked by two supply depots. You explode the bunker, 4 marines, and the 2 supply depots all at once. This usually results in a supply block. Or there could be bunkers behind the wall. You just use the banelings to blow a hole in the wall and have the speedlings run past the bunkers and towards the command center. The marines are forced to vacate the bunkers and fight, which means the bunkers were just a waste of money.


----------



## Mwarren

Bunkers behind supply depots or bunkers full of rines behind empty bunkers are good against banes though.


----------



## yks

plenty of room for more people to join us! send me a message!

yks 303


----------



## Allenssmart

omg psi storm op. how do u counter it? 2 psi storms ffrom 1 ht and 90% my 150 supply mmm army + siege tanks are dead. wow. and the rest are just destroyed by all the other units. THIS IS MADNESS!!


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11893597*
> plenty of room for more people to join us! send me a message!
> 
> yks 303


:/ I thought you would be posting a link to the stream (and the PM's where to play... oh well, I have GSL to watch







)


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11894010*
> :/ I thought you would be posting a link to the stream (and the PM's where to play... oh well, I have GSL to watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11893748*
> omg psi storm op. how do u counter it? 2 psi storms ffrom 1 ht and 90% my 150 supply mmm army + siege tanks are dead. wow. and the rest are just destroyed by all the other units. THIS IS MADNESS!!


Ghosts, and dodge with M&M


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11894079*
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vdeku


Thanks...


----------



## vdek

So I ended up recording the stream from tonight, first game recorded is doomdash vs jediwin, pretty crazy game.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11826078


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty happy with my 4-0 for the night against oc.neters








.


----------



## yks

Doom, you just are too scared to go PvT against me.


----------



## cory1234

Guys. Why am I missing out on these OCN SC sessions?

We need to have an OCN night again.

xNInferNO.383

Edit: Closing in on 3k







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11895237*
> Guys. Why am I missing out on these OCN SC sessions?
> 
> We need to have an OCN night again.
> 
> xNInferNO.383
> 
> Edit: Closing in on 3k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ah, you missed it, brah. We were playing for 6 hours. AND all watched GSL together. It was about 8 OCN members? maybe a bit more.

We need more Toss in the group, too. It's always TvZ

edit: tried adding you, says unable to find you.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11895278*
> Ah, you missed it, brah. We were playing for 6 hours. AND all watched GSL together. It was about 8 OCN members? maybe a bit more.
> 
> We need more Toss in the group, too. It's always TvZ
> 
> edit: tried adding you, says unable to find you.


I'll log on and add you. The friend finder is broken I think. I have a theory that anyone who changed their name the friend finder is broken.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11895278*
> Ah, you missed it, brah. We were playing for 6 hours. AND all watched GSL together. It was about 8 OCN members? maybe a bit more.
> 
> We need more Toss in the group, too. It's always TvZ
> 
> edit: tried adding you, says unable to find you.


If you want to play a good Z my friend xNJakebake is a 3000+ Z. He's pretty good.

Oopps double post. Honestly, first time I think I've ever double posted lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11895212*
> Pretty happy with my 4-0 for the night against Overclock.neters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That's because I wasn't there.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11895404*
> That's because I wasn't there.


Same


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11895431*
> Same


I am still up on you, so we'll see how it goes. We haven't played in ages though







. But remember you were almost always higher in score than me and I did well







.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11895404*
> That's because I wasn't there.


Bring it. You won't like my new builds.


----------



## ThumperSD

I PM'd the "Tester" guy on vdek's channel earlier and he said BigFan is gosu


----------



## EmMure

IS LOL bigfan be gosu?!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11895841*
> I PM'd the "Tester" guy on vdek's channel earlier and he said BigFan is gosu


What?


----------



## ThumperSD

I PM'd him on Ustream and he spoke to me in Korean asking who i am (I believe) and told me he is watching BigFan play on the stream (which he was). He then said "BigFan gosu." His name was oGsTester but probably a fake.

I should have saved the convo


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan's smurf account.


----------



## ThumperSD

You having problems with Gomplayer? I cant connect


----------



## EmMure

is there a stream going on?


----------



## DoomDash

Not working for me either.


----------



## thiru

Test stream works for me.


----------



## ThumperSD

Finally got it to work. This Terius guy is a nub. Reminds me of the Protoss that Idra knocked out last season except worse.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11895212*
> Pretty happy with my 4-0 for the night against Overclock.neters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I was so tired by that last game, it didn't count you Lost Temple High ground abusing bum! I actually need to practice some games where you do that to me though, need to develop effective timings and counters to that high ground abuse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11895666*
> Bring it. You won't like my new builds.


We should play some more games tonight, I'll stream them too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11897166*
> I was so tired by that last game, it didn't count you Lost Temple High ground abusing bum! I actually need to practice some games where you do that to me though, need to develop effective timings and counters to that high ground abuse.


You challenged me so you must have felt up to the task







. And yes I may play different against you occasionally instead of you knowing exactly what I'll be doing every game, and that includes cliff abuse which I was nice enough to avoid before







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11897213*
> You challenged me so you must have felt up to the task
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And yes I may play different against you occasionally instead of you knowing exactly what I'll be doing every game, and that includes cliff abuse which I was nice enough to avoid before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


People were asking me to play, so I decided to go for it before I went to sleep.

It's ok that I lost, I need to practice against it anyways since it's a weak point for me. I got a few ideas I want to try out though. I've managed to hold it off before with spines + queens w/ transfuse though.

Now that I think about it though, I shouldn't have thrown that game so quickly, coulda still had a chance.


----------



## DoomDash

You need to make sure I build medivacs, I have a feeling that once I get used to them I will be much much better. So if I forget let me know.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11897619*
> You need to make sure I build medivacs, I have a feeling that once I get used to them I will be much much better. So if I forget let me know.


Yah, you coulda used some when you were fighting against jediwin.

That game between you and jediwin was really good too. First game on the recorded stream is you two about 2-3minutes in.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11897706*
> Yah, you coulda used some when you were fighting against jediwin.
> 
> That game between you and jediwin was really good too. First game on the recorded stream is you two about 2-3minutes in.


I saw, was cool to watch from the observer point of view







. I felt kinda nervous on the stream with so many observers, a shame







. That void ray push was hard to stop.


----------



## Katana

Thanks everyone for not berating me on my obvious mistakes when I lost.

Looking back, I'd think the best counter to mutalisks doing runs on the base would be a bunch of missile turrets near all the vital stuff. Still, those things are fast; even if I made a bunch of vikings, I'm not entirely sure they'd catch up.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11897782*
> Thanks everyone for not berating me on my obvious mistakes when I lost.
> 
> Looking back, I'd think the best counter to mutalisks doing runs on the base would be a bunch of missile turrets near all the vital stuff. Still, those things are fast; even if I made a bunch of vikings, I'm not entirely sure they'd catch up.


You shoulda sent your whole army in, you woulda won.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11897724*
> I saw, was cool to watch from the observer point of view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I felt kinda nervous on the stream with so many observers, a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That void ray push was hard to stop.


Yah it was fun to watch. I might split up the videos and upload some of them to youtube.


----------



## poroboszcz

4K reached.

http://sc2ranks.com/eu/610238/MeatyOwlLegs

Who the hell is this guy? I've heard it's BigFan's smurf account.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11897968*
> 4K reached.
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/eu/610238/MeatyOwlLegs
> 
> Who the hell is this guy? I've heard it's BigFan's smurf account.


Supposed to be Naniwa.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/NaNi


----------



## nlsthzn

Watched Boxers GSL matches this morning... crazy awesome (and the HQ feed from GomTV is well worth the investment...)


----------



## KangaRuthless

Someone needs to add PsY to the OP. He's a Diamond Zerg who often casts his own games and has built up quite a following.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft

PS: Good to see slayersboxer (DooMDash) has his replays here.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KangaRuthless;11898639*
> Someone needs to add PsY to the OP. He's a Diamond Zerg who often casts his own games and has built up quite a following.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft
> 
> PS: Good to see *slayersboxer (DooMDash)* has his replays here.


I'll add psy.

And LOLWAT?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KangaRuthless;11898639*
> Someone needs to add PsY to the OP. He's a Diamond Zerg who often casts his own games and has built up quite a following.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft


Psy is pretty good, and his drunk cast was hilarious.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqtfLUmqWw[/ame]


----------



## nlsthzn

Have been following Psy for a while... did however, miss his drunk cast... have to check it out...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11895278*
> Ah, you missed it, brah. We were playing for 6 hours. AND all watched GSL together. It was about 8 OCN members? maybe a bit more.
> 
> We need more Toss in the group, too. It's always TvZ
> 
> edit: tried adding you, says unable to find you.


Yep, it was fun







Too bad there isn't an easy way to add 8 people into a custom, maybe something like making a list of people and then click it would automatically invite them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11895212*
> Pretty happy with my 4-0 for the night against Overclock.neters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You haven't played me yet, so, it would've been 4-1 XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11895224*
> Doom, you just are too scared to go PvT against me.


Likely is








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11895237*
> Guys. Why am I missing out on these OCN SC sessions?
> 
> We need to have an OCN night again.
> 
> xNInferNO.383
> 
> Edit: *Closing in on 3k*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ladder reset is coming soon enough, so, better get to 3k before it hits








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11896406*
> I PM'd him on Ustream and he spoke to me in Korean asking who i am (I believe) and told me he is watching BigFan play on the stream (which he was). He then said "BigFan gosu." His name was oGsTester but probably a fake.
> 
> I should have saved the convo


How did you know it was Korean? Curious is all. Guessing that was a joke or maybe he's serious, although I messed up that match badly :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11897619*
> You need to make sure I build medivacs, I have a feeling that once I get used to them I will be much much better. So if I forget let me know.


I'll rather you didn't XD Medivacs make MM that much more viable mid to late game and they also serve as a dropship, so, it's a win either way








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11897782*
> Thanks everyone for not berating me on my obvious mistakes when I lost.
> 
> Looking back, I'd think the best counter to mutalisks doing runs on the base would be a bunch of missile turrets near all the vital stuff. Still, those things are fast; even if I made a bunch of vikings, I'm not entirely sure they'd catch up.


It's np, they were berating me for all of mine XD

Although, I will mention this:
- You didn't exp until much later. I *think* I had at least 4, possibly 5 bases by the time you had your exp.
- Going pure MM isn't a great idea against slings+blings. You should've added other units, some tanks to snipe blings, thors, maybe banshees, etc....








- You should've scouted a lot more to see what I was up to(don't recall seeing any scans, any SCV scouts, etc....).
- Be care with stim. You ended up stimming when I attacked with my mutas and all I had to do was fly away. You should only stim when you are having an engagement. Idea with mutas is to harass and cause you to keep on stimming then fly away.
- As you mentioned, 2 turrets in the mineral line would've made it harder to engage but not impossible because with the amount of mutas I had, you would've needed a lot more turrets to do any significant damage. I think adding a thor with some marines and those 2 turrets would've worked best









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11897968*
> 4K reached.
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/eu/610238/MeatyOwlLegs
> 
> Who the hell is this guy? I've heard it's *BigFan's smurf account*.


Darn, how did you know? I mean, of course, it's not mine, why would I get an EU account?


----------



## roberT_

ill have to play bigfan next.

i made too many mistakes in my game looking back:

-made my cybercore late, leading to late stalker to kill scout, which saw my early expo

-was on the wrong watch tower to catch the incoming army

-when i scouted tanks i should have went for zealot legs right away... i stalled

Feel free to throw out any more improvments anyone else noticed. I'm down for constructive comments anytime.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;11899280*
> Feel free to throw out any more improvments anyone else noticed. I'm down for constructive comments anytime.


You should have never sieged there, your tanks could have done a lot more damage. Instead they tried to siege and in that time the zealots got into melee range. If you keep the tanks behind the rines, they do a lot of dps to stalkers.


----------



## roberT_

But i was the toss, lol


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;11899335*
> But i was the toss, lol


Which game are we talking about then >_> And what's your ingame name.

This must have been after I left, heh.


----------



## roberT_

my ingame name is roberT. I played in the 2nd game vs Sovern (T) on metalopolis


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;11899452*
> my ingame name is roberT. I played in the 2nd game vs Sovern (T) on metalopolis


I'm so confused now... 1st game sovern did against yks TvP and 2nd game was against North Korea, TvZ. This must have been after I left >_>


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hahaha.

Danm that day9. Every few days there's some freaky games out there because of funday munday and throw me off.

PvT is a hard match up


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11899514*
> Hahaha.
> 
> Danm that day9. Every few days there's some freaky games out there because of funday munday and throw me off.
> 
> PvT is a hard match up


I'm going to try this week on ladder to get a replay in for Funday Monday. Nydus worm play ^_^ I actually had a really amazing Nydus game that I did against a Protoss cannon contain, had about 9 Nydus worms pop up during that game, but alas I no longer have the replay :/ The cool thing about Nydus worms is that you can rally your hatchs to them and have the units appear anywhere in the map.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11899510*
> I'm so confused now... 1st game sovern did against yks TvP and 2nd game was against North Korea, TvZ. This must have been after I left >_>


You may have been afk during this one.

The first game was Doom vs AMD, then I played Sovern next. Maybe that sequence of events will help bring back the memory if you were indeed there.

You may have me confused for yks though, cause I was P in that game so it was a TvP.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11899514*
> Hahaha.
> 
> Danm that day9. Every few days there's some freaky games out there because of funday munday and throw me off.
> 
> PvT is a hard match up


I started to use 2 rax expand today and it really does rape toss. Beat a high plat toss today, he tried to 4 gate me and I held it off with 2 bunkers and made 3 more barracks and raped him. I love you doom







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;11899672*
> You may have been afk during this one.
> 
> The first game was Doom vs AMD, then I played Sovern next. Maybe that sequence of events will help bring back the memory if you were indeed there.
> 
> You may have me confused for yks though, cause I was P in that game so it was a TvP.


I remember it well and always welcome the challenge








I think your exp was too early and you should've went for more gates and had better spending(look who talking XD). I think you had 700/200 or so when you gg'd, that's 4 zealots or stalkers. I think intercepting his attack while on the move would've helped as well. You needed more sentries(think you only had one) and needed to ff. This is all I recall atm, but, I'll point out when I see it


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11899826*
> I started to use 2 rax expand today and it really does rape toss. Beat a high plat toss today, he tried to 4 gate me and I held it off with 2 bunkers and made 3 more barracks and raped him. I love you doom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


If the P times it well(as you get tech labs and reactors), he will be able to crush you because you just wasted 400 minerals onto an exp and marines are weak on their own even with a bunker. Of course, if you marine harass, then they'll have to recover before attacking giving you a chance to build bunkers, etc....


----------



## Mwarren

Not quite, I make an orbital in my main and use it to double my scv production while making extra mules to boost my economy. Not to mention if I see a 4 gate coming or any strong 1 base play from the toss player I just double bunker at my choke and by the time I'm on 3 rax with stim I can normally lay down the exp at my natural. Just beat a diamond toss doing this. I have a tech lab and reactor before I even start to make my expo.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I remember it well and always welcome the challenge








I think your exp was too early and you should've went for more gates and had better spending(look who talking XD). I think you had 700/200 or so when you gg'd, that's 4 zealots or stalkers. I think intercepting his attack while on the move would've helped as well. You needed more sentries(think you only had one) and needed to ff. This is all I recall atm, but, I'll point out when I see it










I was going for 1 gate FE build which I've read is one of the leading PvT strats going right now. However, metalopolis may not be the best map to do that on with the natural so wide open.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


I was going for 1 gate FE build which I've read is one of the leading PvT strats going right now. However, metalopolis may not be the best map to do that on with the natural so wide open.


If you're looking for advice on the game me and you played against each other. I would have to say that one reason why you lost is because 1 gate FE is a very risky build against T, when I had 2 siege tanks and pushed out your unit count was lower than mines because your expansion didn't pay for itself yet. I lost to Yks going 2 rax fac expand and that's because he went 2/3 gate robo and had an immortal or 2. He knew exactly where I was because he had an observer and intercepted my tanks before they could siege. You should look into going 2/3 gate robo into expand. That build is actually really good. You could even go 2 gate/stargate into robo.


----------



## roberT_

Didn't realize you were sovern on SC2 Mwarren.

Thanks for the tips. That 1 Gate FE may be a safer play with a free natural in base or where it is easier to defend like Steppes. Next time I'll try the 3 gate or 2 gate robo expand.

Trying to learn macro games more since most of my team games I've played are based around 1 base builds.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


Didn't realize you were sovern on SC2 Mwarren.

Thanks for the tips. That 1 Gate FE may be a safer play with a free natural in base or where it is easier to defend like Steppes. Next time I'll try the 3 gate or 2 gate robo expand.

Trying to learn macro games more since most of my team games I've played are based around 1 base builds.


I wouldn't recommend 1 gate FE against a terran on steppes lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I wouldn't recommend 1 gate FE against a terran on steppes lol


True especially considering the rush distances and the large area you'll have to block. I think JB is a much better map for 1 gate FE and even then, it's risky. I think 2 gate FE is a more solid opener. You can cb out units and have enough for a nexus


----------



## KangaRuthless

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *thiru*   I'll add psy.

And LOLWAT?  
Thanks thiru.

And, that's an inside joke between fellow SCA peeps concerning this vid:

  
 You Tube


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KangaRuthless;11900897*
> Thanks thiru.
> 
> And, that's an inside joke between fellow SCA peeps concerning this vid:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmqs_6CBzcU&feature=related


Or this video on reddit:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvB5HC1uFrM&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## nlsthzn

Curse not being able to watch videos @ work...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


Didn't realize you were sovern on SC2 Mwarren.

Thanks for the tips. That 1 Gate FE may be a safer play with a free natural in base or where it is easier to defend like Steppes. Next time I'll try the 3 gate or 2 gate robo expand.

Trying to learn macro games more since most of my team games I've played are based around 1 base builds.


No problem, you could always add me and play practice games with me. You'll probably see a lot of improvement in your play going from 1 base play to a more macro oriented multi base play. I played 1 base for a while and it held me back a lot.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


True especially considering the rush distances and the large area you'll have to block. I think JB is a much better map for 1 gate FE and even then, it's risky. I think 2 gate FE is a more solid opener. You can cb out units and have enough for a nexus










1 gate FE is safer than 2 gate FE and it's absolutely viable on all maps except close spawns on metalopolis and maybe steppes.


----------



## nlsthzn

... I am no Protoss player and only bronze Terran, but it would seem that the standard play in Korea (on what I have seen in the GSL) is 4 gate all the way... How would that do against 1 gate FE or even 2 gate FE?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


... I am no Protoss player and only bronze Terran, but it would seem that the standard play in Korea (on what I have seen in the GSL) is 4 gate all the way... How would that do against 1 gate FE or even 2 gate FE?


... you would die.


----------



## nlsthzn

... you mean the 4 gate dies or the other two??


----------



## thiru

4 gate would win.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


4 gate would win.


K, cool...







(pity there are no Euro server get togethers like the US guys had last night :/)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


K, cool...







(pity there are no Euro server get togethers like the US guys had last night :/)


Well there's really just you, Blinker/porobozczc and me in Europe...
You want to play?


----------



## thiru

Holy crap I just watched 12 thors (and other stuff) get ripped apart by Protoss tier 3 (he had every tech except carriers)










http://www.justin.tv/totalbiscuit#/w/728127424


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well there's really just you, Blinker/porobozczc and me in Europe...
You want to play?


I am currently more at work than home... however this coming Saturday through the day and night I will be available... but I would not suggest you play against me as I still have to much to learn and will add little to your enjoyment of this game...

--I never have much luck with Thors against anything...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I am currently more at work than home... however this coming Saturday through the day and night I will be available... but I would not suggest you play against me as I still have to much to learn and will add little to your enjoyment of this game...

--I never have much luck with Thors against anything...


Best way to learn is to play with someone to point out your mistakes









And I don't mind, I'll just practice my macro.

edit: dang that was an epic game. I really didn't think 12 thors were stoppable by that point.


----------



## yks

You know what makes me go, "dub-tee-eff Release some REPLAYS! Rude."

Last night in GSL, Artosis goes, "Rumor has it... amongst the community... is that Tester's PvZ is UNSTOPPABLE"

=[ Frown face. I need PvZ help.


----------



## ObscureVisions

GSL was so Chopy for my last Night









Anyone else have that issue?


----------



## yks

The HQ version got choppy according to chat, I had to switch to SQ


----------



## BigFan

That artosis video getting trolled is hilarious XD


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Best way to learn is to play with someone to point out your mistakes










And I don't mind, I'll just practice my macro.

edit: dang that was an epic game. I really didn't think 12 thors were stoppable by that point.


In that case I will submit myself to your pawning pleasure...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


K, cool...







(pity there are no Euro server get togethers like the US guys had last night :/)


You're on EU? Cool. We can play and I'll try to give you some tips. My character/code is in my sig.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well there's really just you, Blinker/porobozczc and me in Europe...
You want to play?


Do you even play anymore? I haven't seen you online for ages.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You know what makes me go, "dub-tee-eff Release some REPLAYS! Rude."

Last night in GSL, Artosis goes, "Rumor has it... amongst the community... is that Tester's PvZ is UNSTOPPABLE"

=[ Frown face. I need PvZ help.


Yeah, it's hard to imagine for me. Today 70% of my games were PvZ. Managed to win 2 out of 10 or something like that, mainly due to cheese (in 1 game I cannon contained in the other one zerg tried 6pooling and failed).

What is it about replays again?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You're on EU? Cool. We can play and I'll try to give you some tips. My character/code is in my sig.

Do you even play anymore? I haven't seen you online for ages.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine for me. Today 70% of my games were PvZ. Managed to win 2 out of 10 or something like that, mainly due to cheese (in 1 game I cannon contained in the other one zerg tried 6pooling and failed).

What is it about replays again?


lol yeah yesterday I played my first games in 8 weeks.
My MMR's so bad I played against a zerg who for some reason thought that teching to broodlords was a good idea xD


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yeah, it's hard to imagine for me. Today 70% of my games were PvZ. Managed to win 2 out of 10 or something like that, mainly due to cheese (in 1 game I cannon contained in the other one zerg tried 6pooling and failed).

What is it about replays again?


I know how you feel, I'm really lost at times in PvZ. 2 of 10 sounds right. Doom tells me he's only hitting 25% against Zerg on ladder.

Zerg scaling is just too good.

dub-tee-eff? w-t-f, cause OCN censors it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I know how you feel, I'm really lost at times in PvZ. 2 of 10 sounds right. Doom tells me he's only hitting 25% against Zerg on ladder.

Zerg scaling is just too good.

dub-tee-eff? w-t-f, cause OCN censors it.


I think Doom meant he's winning 25% of his TvZs.

Use WTH.

edit: nevermind what I said about Doom.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You're on EU? Cool. We can play and I'll try to give you some tips. My character/code is in my sig.


Will do as soon as I get home... will add my info to my sig as well... seems a good idea


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think Doom meant he's winning 25% of his TvZs.

Use WTH.



Ya, that's what I was trying to say. Blinker is hitting 2 of 10, which is 20% winrate


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Ya, that's what I was trying to say. Blinker is hitting 2 of 10, which is 20%


Yeah I just reread what you said


----------



## cory1234

3000+ Zerg's are op. I'm winning at about 30% right now.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


yeah i just reread what you said










<33


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I know how you feel, I'm really lost at times in PvZ. 2 of 10 sounds right. Doom tells me he's only hitting 25% against Zerg on ladder.

Zerg scaling is just too good.

dub-tee-eff? w-t-f, cause OCN censors it.


Yeah I got that part but for some reason thought that some replays have actually got released. I don't know. I have about 50 top pro PvZ replays where protoss wins: Genius, oGsMC, White-Ra, Naniwa etc. Managed to roughly analyze 10, but still when I'm trying to apply what I've learned the outcome is quite the opposite to intended. The ability of zerg to adapt almost instantly to any strategy used against them is what makes it so hard. Pretty much the only time I win against zerg is by some kind of surprise, which shouldn't be the case.


----------



## yks

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11825885

Nony commentating last night.

Nony is beast. He's commentating HuK's games (after the first one). I think there are a lot of PvZs in this VOD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11903146*
> 3000+ Zerg's are op. I'm winning at about 30% right now.


Yeah this is what I've been telling people. It's not the low-mid Diamond Zergs that are untouchable, its the high high Zergs that just seem like there is so little you can do. I know I can beat T's and P's at that score cause I've done it before, but playing against a Z at that level is like hitting a brick wall.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11903090*
> I think Doom meant he's winning 25% of his TvZs.
> 
> Use WTH.


You are correct.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11899906*
> If the P times it well(as you get tech labs and reactors), he will be able to crush you because you just wasted 400 minerals onto an exp and marines are weak on their own even with a bunker. Of course, if you marine harass, then they'll have to recover before attacking giving you a chance to build bunkers, etc....


I have a replay of me holding off a 4 gate all in with it, but I'd have to find it. 2 rax FE is strong. Also if you recall me vs jedi his very aggressive voidray push also didn't get me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11899826*
> I love you doom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## yks

I really like this Nony Commentary so far.

He's watching Day9 and giving a pro's perspective (who isn't the one playing) at times disagreeing with Day9.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TL*
> 00:11.45 Day9 Daily #233. - Recommended
> 
> 01:10:00 Huk PvZ vs Check.Prime Recommended. (Also includes a little anti Huk rant )
> 
> 01:34:00 Huk 2 PvTs
> 
> 1:48:35 Huk PvT + Sheth ZvP vs Kiwikaki, Tyler watching both streams at once
> 
> 02:00 Drewbie TvZ vs GeeFive
> 
> 02:05:30 some boring friend adding, then switching between a Huk PvP and a Minigun PvZ, then another Huk PvP
> 
> 02:22:30 Huk PvT steppes, then another PvT on Blistering Sands.


----------



## DoomDash

I also want to say about Zerg, I'm pretty confident I could do pretty well vs some high level Protoss players at the very least even currently, and I will do little more than 1A.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11903836*
> I also want to say about Zerg, I'm pretty confident I could do pretty well vs some high level Protoss players at the very least even currently, and I will do little more than 1A.


That's like throwing Salt on me Doom =[


----------



## nlsthzn

lol... was reading the thread on TL forum, then read the comments here on the Day9/Huk commentary and I was confused for a moment, very de ja vu... then I clicked why...


----------



## DoomDash

.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11903501*
> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11825885
> 
> Nony commentating last night.
> 
> Nony is beast. He's commentating HuK's games (after the first one). I think there are a lot of PvZs in this VOD


Awesome stuff. +rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11903702*
> Yeah this is what I've been telling people. It's not the low-mid Diamond Zergs that are untouchable, its the high high Zergs that just seem like there is so little you can do. I know I can beat T's and P's at that score cause I've done it before, but playing against a Z at that level is like hitting a brick wall.


2-3k is a mid diamond atm.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11903995*
> Awesome stuff. +rep
> 
> 2-3k is a mid diamond atm.


well 3kish to me is pretty good right now.


----------



## nlsthzn

So Patch 1.2 is delayed (again)... at least Blizzard is consistent...

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1568008036


----------



## thiru

Consistent in delaying things?

Yes.


----------



## Allenssmart

i want to know your opinions as good sc2 players on the following statement i hear about 20 times a day at school (laptop school, blind teachers, go figure):

PROTOSS OP AS (insert exclamatory vulgarity here)


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss is fine, Terran is fine.


----------



## yks

You know what's not fine though? Zerg.

Zerg is not fine. Zerg needs the nerf stick.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11904371*
> You know what's not fine though? Zerg.
> 
> Zerg is not fine. Zerg needs the nerf stick.


lol wut are you high? zerg is so bad. 90% of the time i face a zerg player i will win. Zerg needs buffing up... They're units are all weak and bad. Their early game rushes always fail if you learn to wall off and build a bunker.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11904371*
> You know what's not fine though? Zerg.
> 
> Zerg is not fine. Zerg needs the nerf stick.


----------



## nlsthzn

Zerg has to be OP... how else they can rule the universes...?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11903995*
> Awesome stuff. +rep
> 
> 2-3k is a mid diamond atm.


3000+ is top 300 in NA right now!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11904830*
> 3000+ is top 300 in NA right now!


That's what I was thinking when I read his post. 1k-2k seems like mid diamond right now.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11904402*
> lol wut are you high? zerg is so bad. 90% of the time i face a zerg player i will win. Zerg needs buffing up... They're units are all weak and bad. Their early game rushes always fail if you learn to wall off and build a bunker.


I can't tell if you're trolling, sarcastic, or bad.


----------



## yks

Nah, I agree with Blinker. 2-3k is Mid now.


----------



## nlsthzn

Check out the tank... not sieged but still pretty sweet


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11904830*
> 3000+ is top 300 in NA right now!


Yeah, it's high diamond. 1-2k low, 2-3k mid, 3-4k+ high. Below 1k it's barely diamond anymore due to points inflation.

Anyway I showed my mate from bronze some day 9 videos. The two that we recommended for BigFan. He was pretty bad. And now, just 2 weeks later he got better econ then me in one of the team games we played. He's like around gold at least, even though he had the game since release. I can't believe how much progress he made in such a short time.


----------



## nlsthzn

Sounds like I should go watch those vids too...


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11905292*
> Yeah, it's high diamond. 1-2k low, 2-3k mid, 3-4k+ high. Below 1k it's barely diamond anymore due to points inflation.
> 
> Anyway I showed my mate from bronze some day 9 videos. The two that we recommended for BigFan. He was pretty bad. And now, just 2 weeks later he got better econ then me in one of the team games we played. He's like around gold at least, even though he had the game since release. I can't believe how much progress he made in such a short time.


can u post a link to those two vids again? thanks!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL

"zerg's weak" don't nerf zerg lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11905565*
> can u post a link to those two vids again? thanks!


Here you go:

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11904402*
> lol wut are you high? zerg is so bad. 90% of the time i face a zerg player i will win. Zerg needs buffing up... They're units are all weak and bad. Their early game rushes always fail if you learn to wall off and build a bunker.


We are talking higher level play.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60Tyler

Nony is streaming. He's watching HuK play and talking about all the mistakes HuK is making. Nony is freaking ruthless @ pointing out mistakes; win or lose.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11901599*
> 1 gate FE is safer than 2 gate FE and it's absolutely viable on all maps except close spawns on metalopolis and maybe steppes.


Eh it depends... 1gate FE is weaker against a 5min shells push but stronger vs a 7min stim push. 2gate FE is weaker against 7min stim push while stronger vs 5min shells push.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11904402*
> lol wut are you high? zerg is so bad. 90% of the time i face a zerg player i will win. Zerg needs buffing up... They're units are all weak and bad. Their early game rushes always fail if you learn to wall off and build a bunker.


No offense but you are arguing against diamond players. I believe you are quite new to this game so I hope youre not trolling.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11902410*
> You know what makes me go, "dub-tee-eff Release some REPLAYS! Rude."
> 
> Last night in GSL, Artosis goes, "Rumor has it... amongst the community... is that Tester's PvZ is UNSTOPPABLE"
> 
> =[ Frown face. I need PvZ help.


What problems are you having vs Z?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11907446*
> What problems are you having vs Z?


Everything.


----------



## ThumperSD

Tt


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11903369*
> Yeah I got that part but for some reason thought that some replays have actually got released. I don't know. I have about 50 top pro PvZ replays where protoss wins: Genius, oGsMC, White-Ra, Naniwa etc. Managed to roughly analyze 10, but still *when I'm trying to apply what I've learned the outcome is quite the opposite to intended*. The ability of zerg to adapt almost instantly to any strategy used against them is what makes it so hard. Pretty much the only time I win against zerg is by some kind of surprise, which shouldn't be the case.


Well, not sure why you are surprised. I mean, I could tell you how to do whatever strat I decided to learn but implementation is different because the game is dynamic, no two games you play will be alike which is why I love SC2
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11904371*
> You know what's not fine though? Zerg.
> 
> Zerg is not fine. Zerg needs the nerf stick.


Nope, blizzard won't be changing Zerg anytime soon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11904337*
> Protoss is fine, Terran is fine.


While I'll rather have P stay the same way they are, P late game can be strong as hell. SSC tears apart hydra+roach with some good ffs. Phenoixes shut down muta harass with some stalkers. HTs+storm+amulet are great against large groups especially because you get the units clustering depending on choke. DTs are great because more Zs than not forget to make an overseer. I won a game as T against a Z because he thought OLs detect like in SC1. Only after I told him they don't, did he make an overseer, but, it was too late








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11904402*
> lol wut are you high? zerg is so bad. 90% of the time i face a zerg player i will win. Zerg needs buffing up... They're units are all weak and bad. Their early game rushes always fail if you learn to wall off and build a bunker.


Players in the lower leagues don't know how to play Z correctly. Idea is to macro and only make units when an engagement will take place. In the higher leagues, when a Z has several bases and a high collection rate, they can easily rebuild their army and tech switch pretty fast








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11904593*
> Zerg has to be OP... how else they can rule the universes...?


XD He has a point








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11907023*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60Tyler
> 
> Nony is streaming. He's watching HuK play and talking about all the mistakes HuK is making. Nony is *freaking ruthless @ pointing out mistakes*; win or lose.


Sounds like someone I know XD Having said that, how much better is Nony than HuK, as in where would they be placed on a scale?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11905147*
> I can't tell if you're trolling, sarcastic, or bad.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11907054*
> No offense but you are arguing against diamond players. I believe you are quite new to this game so I hope youre not trolling.


Guys, give him a break. I think he's in bronze and has recently started, so, he's learning everything and believes Z is bad. I'll put it this way. Z in the hands of a capable player who is able to multitask well will grind T to dust and give P players a run for their money









Personally, I think PvsZ is somewhat balanced. TvsZ on the other hand, swings in Z's favour once mid-game is reached because MM is strong early on especially with a good micro player but later on, Z > T. Now of course, medivacs and careful placement of tanks, etc.... will fix a lot of issues, not to mention thors which can be powerhouses but late game Z > late game T atm


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Good points. I still have problem with PvT since they can push in with stim and roll you. By then you're going to play catch up and won't be ready for their next timing attack.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167992

tl pvz guide that was posted here before. very useful in my say so.


----------



## yks

You made me cry bigfan when you said PvZ is balanced. =[ You're not suppose to make people cry.


----------



## Intricate09

Hello all. I was just seeking a bit of critique. I have really started working at fundamentals, watching a lot of day9's stuff and playing a lot of AI games vs. very hard, hard, and even getting bashed by insane. Trying to stay away from cheese play altogether now.

Anyway, it's going very well with my being in lowly bronze. However, I find myself having a lot of macro trouble. Could anyone offer any suggestions?

(This is the shortest of the replays that would pertain to this, but all my games are similar. Similar timing, strategy, etc.)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/124530-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11908141*
> You made me cry bigfan when you said PvZ is balanced. =[ You're not suppose to make people cry.


Sorry if I'm being harsh, but, I believe that it is. Colossi with support take out most ground units. VRs+phenoixes take out a lot of air units.

I just watched that first day9 link that was posted. He didn't talk about as much as I thought he would considering it was over an hour, but, anyways, his message seemed to be make workers, don't get supply blocked and don't overstretch yourself(too many structures and not able to support them). Still not sure how this is supposed to help because I've already heard all of these before :/


----------



## EmMure

games fan|?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Intricate09;11908501*
> Hello all. I was just seeking a bit of critique. I have really started working at fundamentals, watching a lot of day9's stuff and playing a lot of AI games vs. very hard, hard, and even getting bashed by insane. Trying to stay away from cheese play altogether now.
> 
> Anyway, it's going very well with my being in lowly bronze. However, I find myself having a lot of macro trouble. Could anyone offer any suggestions?
> 
> (This is the shortest of the replays that would pertain to this, but all my games are similar. Similar timing, strategy, etc.)
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/124530-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns


Just keep working on your fundamentals: Don't get supply capped, spend your money (faster), and constantly make units.

You're on the right track though, just need to remember to do things faster. Like you built your robo @ 700minerals/500 gas (meaning you could've built it 500minerals/400 gas SOONER)

As for non-fundamentals: Research Warp-Gate instantly. Transfer probes from your main to your natural (you had 31 probes on minerals in your main, compared to the 7 in your natural) and try not to build 12 pylons at once.


----------



## Allenssmart

if nukes﻿ do in real game would u see cause if u did u move against colossi?


----------



## EmMure

*** did u just say?!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11908702*
> Sorry if I'm being harsh, but, I believe that it is. Colossi with support take out most ground units. VRs+phenoixes take out a lot of air units.


Going by your logic, I can say the same thing, Ultralisks take out most the ground and Corruptors take out ALL the air *and* Colossi

Yeah, you can name a lot of units that are good against X, *but it doesn't work like that*. You can't just say, "Oh this unit combination is good, let me just get it and win!" cause *any* race can say that. ("say that" being the key phrase)

"VRs+Pheonix take out a lot of the air units"? You say that but:

*ANY race can say that*. Terran can say, "Oh vikings take out a lot of the air units." Zerg can say, "Oh he's making air? CORRUPTORS"

and ANY race can name their big tier3 units, you say I got Colossi? Terran can say THOR! Zerg can say ULTRA!

This is why your theorycraft is always sub-standard. Whenever anyone on this board say they have problems with X unit, you just name the obvious counters. Anyone who can press "F1" for the help menu can look up counters

When Doom has problems with Banelings, you just say, "Oh just get tanks and split your marines" thats the OBVIOUS thing to get/do, but it doesn't work like that in real world applications, there are too many variables.

Or Roaches and you always immediately say, "Immortals!" Or Mutas and you always immediately say, "THORS!"

It goes beyond "counters." Your logic just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So you're saying pvz and other matchups aren't balanced atm?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11908940*
> Going by your logic, I can say the same thing, Ultralisks take out most the ground and Corruptors take out ALL the air *and* Colossi
> 
> Yeah, you can name a lot of units that are good against X, *but it doesn't work like that*. You can't just say, "Oh this unit combination is good, let me just get it and win!" cause *any* race can say that. ("say that" being the key phrase)
> 
> "VRs+Pheonix take out a lot of the air units"? You say that but:
> 
> *ANY race can say that*. Terran can say, "Oh vikings take out a lot of the air units." Zerg can say, "Oh he's making air? CORRUPTORS"
> 
> and ANY race can name their big tier3 units, you say I got Colossi? Terran can say THOR! Zerg can say ULTRA!
> 
> This is why your theorycraft is always sub-standard. Whenever anyone on this board say they have problems with X unit, you just name the obvious counters. Anyone who can press "F1" for the help menu can look up counters
> 
> When Doom has problems with Banelings, you just say, "Oh just get tanks and split your marines" thats the OBVIOUS thing to get/do, but it doesn't work like that in real world applications, there are too many variables.
> 
> Or Roaches and you always immediately say, "Immortals!" Or Mutas and you always immediately say, "THORS!"
> 
> It goes beyond "counters." Your logic just doesn't make sense to me.


Looks like I hit a nerve XD You should really relax







I was merely pointing out how strong a P army can be for its price. Take SSC for example, with enough colossi and some good ff, you can take down roach+hydra. Besides, I never said any specific unit composition is good and will win you said matchup, I merely pointed out that certain unit compositions are great against other ones which is obvious.

If my opponent went mass roaches, I'll be stupid not to go for stalkers+immortals because they counter roaches(immortals hard, stalkers soft). It's the way the game works, if you trade armies with similar supply, the better composition and micro will win you the battle.

If the supply are in your favour, then your chance of winning said battle is greater. That's the way I see the game. While there are hard counters and I use them to my advantage, scouting, macro and micro will win you the game.
VRs+phenoixes was aimed at mutalisks and corruptors. Phenoixes take out mutas rather fast and VRs are great against corruptors. Remember, we are talking about PvsZ here because I said that I believe its somewhat balanced, not TvsPvsZ.

For tier 3, you seem to forget that ultras are melee units and have horrible pathing when mixed with slings. At least with colossi, units can walk under it or it can walk above them. You can also abuse high ground and force an ultra to run around moving back down when it's about to engage. What would you like me to tell someone when they ask those questions? That they shouldn't use tanks and try to split marines to reduce splash for banes? That immortals are a bad idea against mass roaches when they rape them? That phenoixes are useless against mutas? Whenever someone asks, I tell them what the general consensus is, that you need tanks and good splitting when going against banes, just like you need VRs for corruptors, phenoixes for mutas, storm for cluster of units, ff to split army, etc.... It's just the way the game works. Of course, there are other possibilities(stalkers, sentries, cannons for mutas or chargelots for hydras, etc....). There are counters to everything and scouting your opponent allows you to react to their unit composition and give you an edge.

BTW, against mutas, I would have originally stated thors, but, I think 2-3 turrets and marines+medivacs are a much better counter. Hopefully, this clears things up a bit









@EmMule I'm heading to bed atm, maybe tommorrow night?


----------



## yks

Nevermind, my point obviously did not get across.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11909215*
> Hopefully, this clears things up a bit


_
WOOOOOSH_

That's the sound of yks's point flying over you.

I think, Doom, yks, and I are going to have to do some 1v1s versus you. Until you can beat us or at least match us, you can't talk







Then you'll understand what yks is talking about.


----------



## yks

EmMure, you need to understand our relationship with BigFan. He's a friend and we mean nothing by it.


----------



## EmMure

i know lol but i felt like i needed to say something lol


----------



## thiru

Renamed the thread to SC2 strategy & discussion thread.
Seemed fitting.

Yes I'm that picky


----------



## yks

GSL on! I need people to chat with while it's on. Doom is sleeping and idle on AIM.


----------



## thiru

lol
I'm watching on the gom player.


----------



## yks

you got AIM or IRC or something thiru? or would you rather watch in peace.


----------



## thiru

I don't mind, but I don't use any of those, just Steam.


----------



## yks

all good brah.


----------



## EmMure

i am watching it and bored lol and have aim lol


----------



## yks

feel free to message me if you like. my aim is in my profile.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

GSL right now?! Oh geeze work tomorrw...


----------



## DoomDash

I hate this game sometimes.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I hate this game sometimes.


I think you're just on a tilt right now, you'll be fine soon enough.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *vdek*   I think you're just on a tilt right now, you'll be fine soon enough.  
Once banes are nerfed I'll be fine.









I like what Husky says about +1 Zealots in here heh:
  
 You Tube  



 
For you vdek.

14:30 in that is sweet.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sorry if I'm being harsh, but, I believe that it is. Colossi with support take out most ground units. VRs+phenoixes take out a lot of air units.

I just watched that first day9 link that was posted. He didn't talk about as much as I thought he would considering it was over an hour, but, anyways, his message seemed to be make workers, don't get supply blocked and don't overstretch yourself(too many structures and not able to support them). Still not sure how this is supposed to help because I've already heard all of these before :/


Did you actually listen to what he was trying to say for the whole time. I assume you watched Newbie Tuesday #1. He specifically targets players like you and provides reasoning and examples why you need solid macro before worrying about anything else.

You don't even have to know what magic box is, you don't need baneling micro, perfect army positioning, or even any micro at all. Also thinking in terms of unit counters is not going to help you.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Once banes are nerfed I'll be fine.









I like what Husky says about +1 Zealots in here heh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pALh2LnfmgA&feature=sub

For you vdek.

14:30 in that is sweet.


Yeah







This is a perfect example of what I mean. Tester had all the correct "counters" to zergs units, but it didn't help him. Btw he didn't counter mutas with phoenixes, but by attacking immediately after they appeared, before Ret could even start harassing. This way he forced roaches for Ret to be able to defend. Still the super fast switch to hydras got him.

Maybe if he went for HTs instead of DTs or skipped DTs altogether for faster colossus it would work.

Still, tester played really well. Managed to do early pressure, killing the queen and forcing lings. Shut down mutas immediately and took down zerg's third. Macroed perfectly getting early expand, then more expos than zerg and constantly upgrading. And he still lost quite decisively eventually ending up with 2 bases against zerg's four. That's pure imba.


----------



## DoomDash

That may be a bit of an older game, but Artosis said word around Korea is Tester has an unbeatable PvZ right now. Not sure how true that would be







.

Anyway, I'm glad we can all hate Zerg in agreement here. <3 oc.net.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyway, I'm glad we can all hate Zerg in agreement here. <3 Overclock.net.


Go to hell in a pile of baneling goo.


----------



## rhed5

I'll go out on a limb and say it; zerg needs buff. This new patch is going to be god awful.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I'll go out on a limb and say it; zerg needs buff. This new patch is going to be god awful.


You don't actually believe that








. I know you know how good Z is. I do think the -10 sec phoenix should only be 5 at most though.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Did you actually listen to what he was trying to say for the whole time. I assume you watched Newbie Tuesday #1. He specifically targets players like you and provides reasoning and examples why you need solid macro before worrying about anything else.

You don't even have to know what magic box is, you don't need baneling micro, perfect army positioning, or even any micro at all. Also thinking in terms of unit counters is not going to help you.


I agree that you don't need to think about units counters or micro if you're a bronze level player but after that you're going to be in a lot of trouble if you don't think about unit counters or even very minor micro. I'll give you an example, going mass marauders when your opponent goes speedlings and mutas. That's pretty much an auto loss for the T. Or how about hellions/marines vs a standard 4 gate unit comp. You're going to get your butt handed to you. I don't care how good someones macro is if they don't worry about unit counters/composition or micro they're going to lose a lot even in the lower leagues.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't actually believe that







. I know you know how good Z is. I do think the -10 sec phoenix should only be 5 at most though.


If Zerg was as good as you say it is, why aren't they winning the top tournaments?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


If Zerg was as good as you say it is, why aren't they winning the top tournaments?


Did you miss GSL season 1 and 2? Plus they have like what, 15% less players? I'd say considering that they are doing mighty good.

Also it's not just me saying that. It's obviously not fact, but the general 2000+~ Diamond population population I know feels the same.

Plus once you get your macro down perfect I think even you will see.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


If Zerg was as good as you say it is, why aren't they winning the top tournaments?


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that its most likely because most of the ZvX games played during gsl and other top tournaments have been very micro oriented and haven't gone past the mid game. The players playing against zerg try to end the game before the mid/late game for a reason, a good zerg will have a huge advantage during the mid/late game if he played right.


----------



## DoomDash

Then you got all these T's and P's all inning Z all the time avoid having to ever get to mid-late game where they are probably what most considered too good. No one is complaining about Z early game here. Kinda messes up stats ect. Game is too fresh to hold off all ins all the time or even majority.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I agree that you don't need to think about units counters or micro if you're a bronze level player but after that you're going to be in a lot of trouble if you don't think about unit counters or even very minor micro. I'll give you an example, going mass marauders when your opponent goes speedlings and mutas. That's pretty much an auto loss for the T. Or how about hellions/marines vs a standard 4 gate unit comp. You're going to get your butt handed to you. I don't care how good someones macro is if they don't worry about unit counters/composition or micro they're going to lose a lot even in the lower leagues.


Yeah but practicing macro usually involves using safe builds. MM to MMM for TvP, 2gate robo for PvT, etc. 
Although zerg, as usual, is probably different.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Did you miss GSL season 1 and 2?



Yeah I actually missed it. I know Fruitdealer won GSL 1, but he hasn't been doing so hot since then I think.

Quote:



Plus they have like what, 15% less players? I'd say considering that they are doing mighty good.

Also it's not just me saying that. It's obviously not fact, but the general 2000+~ Diamond population population I know feels the same.

Plus once you get your macro down perfect I think even you will see.


Heh, the hardest part about Zerg is getting timings correct. I think a macro Terran can be really deadly end game as well though, just that most players don't play that way. If you go Boxer style with the mass OCs and get a LOT of Barracks + Reactors. You could do a lot of damage to a macro zerg that way, in fact I think a macro terran could outproduce a macro zerg. Not to mention the fact that a Terran macroing with OCs would have a significantly stronger 200/200 army due to the lack of SCVs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Then you got all these T's and P's all inning Z all the time avoid having to ever get to mid-late game where they are probably what most considered too good. No one is complaining about Z early game here. Kinda messes up stats ect. Game is too fresh to hold off all ins all the time or even majority.


This is true, the All-Ins against Zerg are kinda ******ed IMO but it's what most players find necessary. Personally the worst thing for me is to fight someone who is constantly applying pressure while droning up themselves. It forces me to use larva for units instead of drones, which messes up my eco.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yeah I actually missed it. I know Fruitdealer won GSL 1, but he hasn't been doing so hot since then I think.

Heh, the hardest part about Zerg is getting timings correct. I think a macro Terran can be really deadly end game as well though, just that most players don't play that way. If you go Boxer style with the mass OCs and get a LOT of Barracks + Reactors. You could do a lot of damage to a macro zerg that way, in fact I think a macro terran could outproduce a macro zerg. Not to mention the fact that a Terran macroing with OCs would have a significantly stronger 200/200 army due to the lack of SCVs.


Now you are just playing pretend though. The reason Terran's don't macro like Z is not because they can't, it's because its not safe. Ling/Bane/Muta is far too mobile and effective to really expand too fast / spread yourself thin. This is why even in theory Zerg is so amazingly strong. Think about what Jediwin said about our TvZ. He said if I would have moved out with my FE orbital he would have got me. Why? Cause that means I would have no tanks to defend it. It's just not possible for Terran to be defended properly at all these spots. Zerg it doesn't even matter because your units move 13880-932289323908 mph.

As for the mass OC ****, that's such a big gimmick, even more so in TvZ and TvP. The only way you can really get that off is if you are just plain better than your opponent. TvT is the exception to the rule because its a slow match up, full of very immobile units, and huge lines of defense. That's the only reason we've seen it so far in high level games. Mass OC builds at this point are like the least proven thing ever in any other match up ( or even TvT still ).

It's already at the point where Terran hardly feels safe, and if we sit back and try to build a bunch of orbitals we'll just get owned.

T > Z for the first 10-15 minutes, then it gets progressively worse. And the micro / planning required later game is just so much less.


----------



## rhed5

2 Barracks are standard now in TvZ and although it pisses me off when I lose because of terran's versatility with this opening and the difficulty in predicting what terran is going to do, I am OK with this MU. PvZ, I have a problem with. The pylon block thing is nice but I have a serious problem with the pheonix build time being cut short.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4573284/

Pretty awesome stuff here. Very helpful for both zergs and protoss. Some sick builds from inControl and interesting discussion about many aspects of the game.

Another one, this time from a protoss perspective: http://www.livestream.com/khaladas/v...7-5ff6aab532d8


----------



## yang88she

bookmarked...tired of playing custom games, gonna try and not get demolished in a real game


----------



## Sainesk

i'm playing around with different hotkey setups, currently 1-4 army 5-9 buildings/scout/whatever, and 0 as nexus/hatch/center.

Anyone have advice, i'm having a hard time doing 0-S/D/E, using pinkie and index, is there a more comfortable/effective way?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


2 Barracks are standard now in TvZ and although it pisses me off when I lose because of terran's versatility with this opening and the difficulty in predicting what terran is going to do, I am OK with this MU. PvZ, I have a problem with. The pylon block thing is nice but I have a serious problem with the pheonix build time being cut short.


Haha. What pisses me off is when I have Zerg contained to 1 base and I have an expo up and running for 5-6 minutes and then let the contain go because I was worried about nydus and I felt like I was wayy ahead. He expos all over gets roach speed and muta on 2 base somehow. I take the gold base and he just expands everywhere. Mass muta = gg.

Soo close to 3000. I must reach it before reset.


----------



## thiru

Heard reset was at midnight.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Heard reset was at midnight.


Tonight?

I dunno, the patch was delayed until next week last I heard...


----------



## thiru

Was poking fun at Cory


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11913622*
> Heard reset was at midnight.


Doubt it, patch isn't coming till next week I believe


----------



## KangaRuthless

I heard they were taking out SpeedRays. That makes me so happy.


----------



## thiru

Speedrays are out, speedphoenix are in.


----------



## poroboszcz

It has never been officially confirmed by Blizzard they are going to reset the ladder with 1.2. In fact they said:
Quote:


> We don't have any plans to reset the ladder with the upcoming patch, but we do plan to reset it when we roll the season in a future patch. We'll keep everyone informed as we get closer to that point.


So keep laddering in peace.


----------



## nlsthzn

As far as I can tell all the ladder "reset" is going to do it drop very inactive players... for those active not much if anything will change...


----------



## thiru

yks, Naama is using tanks against Mana in a tourney right now.

edit: and the tanks died... lol.

rofl I just saw Naama EMP an obs to kill it, but also hit 4 medivacs and 4 ghosts xD


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11914692*
> yks, Naama is using tanks against Mana in a tourney right now.
> 
> edit: and the tanks died... lol.
> 
> rofl I just saw Naama EMP an obs to kill it, but also hit 4 medivacs and 4 ghosts xD


What tourney is that? (or is it an old one or something?)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11915710*
> What tourney is that? (or is it an old one or something?)


Guessing it's that dreamhacker or whatever its called tourney, but, not 100% positive


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11915710*
> What tourney is that? (or is it an old one or something?)


Actually I don't think it was tournament it was something odd like some qualifiers or a private league. And it was today yes.


----------



## yks

Muwhahaha, Thiru. Good for Mana, he should've won DreamHack. Nice to hear he's learning to fight tanks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11915873*
> Muwhahaha, Thiru. Good for Mana, he should've won DreamHack. Nice to hear he's learning to fight tanks.


Learning to build immortals finally?







How about Phoenix?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11916240*
> Learning to build immortals finally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about Phoenix?


Your hate for Tanks in TvP is duly noted. =P


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11916283*
> Your hate for Tanks in TvP is duly noted. =P


I prefer making units that win me the game because they are useful, not units that win me the game because I'm probably just better.

I love tanks, you think I want them to suck TvP?









I don't really mind though, I think TvP is fine over all. Tanks suck, I can deal with it.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1568008036?page=11#215
Quote:


> We don't have any plans to reset the ladder with the upcoming patch, but we do plan to reset it when we roll the season in a future patch. We'll keep everyone informed as we get closer to that point.


----------



## CramComplex

lol so i guess I'm stuck at silver forever~


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11916573*
> lol so i guess I'm stuck at silver forever~


Even if it was reset you would still 99% most likely have been placed in silver since it continues your MMR.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11916573*
> lol so i guess I'm stuck at silver forever~


Doom is right, I'm afraid. Points don't mean much unless you're in diamond, it's your MMR and your win/loss ratio that make the difference. Just keep practicing!


----------



## CramComplex

geh...oh well...haven't had practice for a long long time...stupid 6950...forcing me to get 2 new monitors...oh well...I'm re-installing SC2 now...see you online~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11916684*
> geh...oh well...haven't had practice for a long long time...stupid 6950...forcing me to get 2 new monitors...oh well...I'm *re-installing SC2 now*...see you online~


nice, still finishing my benchies. Darn oblivion and its constant loading screens XD


----------



## DoomDash

Oblivion benches? You should do them on newer games since they will most likely benefit more.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11916866*
> Oblivion benches? You should do them on newer games since they will most likely benefit more.


I know, thing is I've only got so many







I also wanted to see the difference across the spectrum(old and new). Based on what I'm seeing, I can see a bottleneck for SC2, not good :/

Edit: BTW, curious what's your fps for SC2 @ 1080p everything at ultra(lights at low)? I didn't find a crazy difference(better min, max but avg isn't to my liking :/).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11916911*
> I know, thing is I've only got so many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also wanted to see the difference across the spectrum(old and new). Based on what I'm seeing, I can see a bottleneck for SC2, not good :/


Well it's been said that SCII is a CPU intensive game. From LinusTechTips he tested a 580 vs the 480 and there was pretty much no FPS gain because it was bottlenecked by the CPU.

I really hate the way SCII is programmed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11916935*
> Well it's been said that SCII is a CPU intensive game. From LinusTechTips he tested a 580 vs the 480 and there was pretty much no FPS gain because it was bottlenecked by the CPU.
> 
> I really hate the way SCII is programmed.


hmm, well, I'm testing now @ stock versus my oc to 3Ghz and likely will see some difference. I dislike it as well, would've preferred a more crysis type approach with less emphasis on cpu but such is the way of Blizz









I haven't done any OCing yet on my 570 so I can probably get a couple more fps even if I turn lights to max


----------



## DoomDash

http://kotaku.com/5726670/the-portable-laptop-that-might-make-pc-gaming-on+the+go-work


----------



## yks

All I know is that Tonight will be the most epic GSL4 day _so far_

July, MC, Nada, Inca.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11917001*
> http://kotaku.com/5726670/the-portable-laptop-that-might-make-pc-gaming-on+the+go-work


Interesting concept, won't work though. Imagine playing an RTS on that







I can see it working for WoW and some other games, but, the mouse+keyboard combo will still reign supreme


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11917126*
> Interesting concept, won't work though. Imagine playing an RTS on that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see it working for WoW and some other games, but, the mouse+keyboard combo will still reign supreme


Well for RTS/FPS you could just use a mouse and be fine. I was more thinking of Diablo III on that.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11916911*
> I know, thing is I've only got so many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also wanted to see the difference across the spectrum(old and new). Based on what I'm seeing, I can see a bottleneck for SC2, not good :/
> 
> Edit: BTW, curious what's your fps for SC2 @ 1080p everything at ultra(lights at low)? I didn't find a crazy difference(better min, max but avg isn't to my liking :/).


Play the game and check GPU usage. Its its very low the CPU is holding you back. I get like 40% GPU usage with CPU @ 2.8Ghz and ~ 66% with CPU @ 4.4Ghz.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er;11917182*
> Play the game and check GPU usage. Its its very low the CPU is holding you back. I get like 40% GPU usage with CPU @ 2.8Ghz and ~ 66% with CPU @ 4.4Ghz.


Will do, playing to test it out @ stock against my 3Ghz oc then move from there. I'm still trying to find the best program to track and record cpu usage. I guess I could always alt-tab out as a game is going to check but not sure how much of a good idea that is :/


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11917122*
> All I know is that Tonight will be the most epic GSL4 day _so far_
> 
> July, MC, Nada, Inca.


When I get home in two hours I will be getting to watch yesterdays games... well I will try as I am going directly from a night shift to a works function with my wife that is starting at 09:30 and only ending at 21:30







(I might not even make all the code S games and I so want to watch LiquidRet also







)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11917001*
> http://kotaku.com/5726670/the-portable-laptop-that-might-make-pc-gaming-on+the+go-work


LOL in that video tan looks so serious for some wierd reason. It's like he's overacting in an bollywood film.


----------



## zazzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


yes, I'm well aware of the timing when an exp is going down because of that shortage, however, when I scouted it, it was a little too late. He already had it pop and got the larvae from it which meant that he would be able to support his troops as well as I would be able to especially when distances are taken into out. I think I tried to exp but his slings > slings which made it difficult to expand just yet :/

According to masterlaw, he said that my 2nd hatch inbase was a bad idea which makes me wonder how your supposed to defend against mass slings with only one hatchery. I guess crawlers are the answer then :/


Hey Guys, it's masterlaw... Just found the thread.







On Holiday in Dominican Republic...

Ok ZVZ is a mirror match so you try to mirror your opponent. I've watch a lot of what PSY had to say about this and I agree and disagree with some of it.

I tend to always open 11-12 hatch with ZvZ because there are some noobs that still do the 8 pool rush which will not work on 11 pool and if you are good you can get away with 12 pool.

There are 3 openings for zerg that I know.

ling/bane rush
mass ling
Roach

You need to know what counters what.

-Mass ling you'll need ling/bane, separate the banes as 1 bane is all that is needed to kill many lings. This also prevents him rushing a small group of lings at your banes to take them all out.

-Ling/Bane 
Spine at at end of creep closest to bridge (1-2 spread out so splash does not hurt)
Lings/Banes to counter do not use banes on his morphing eggs takes 3 banes to kill and not cost effective. send 1-2 lings at banes directly to make him waste
Banes for the lings

After holding initial attack 4 roaches to ramp will hold the ramp, and you can either roach up fully, and push if he continues lings/blings and push out when you have 10+ roaches. Mix a few banes to take out big clumps of lings and leave enough roaches to block the ramp to stop run by while you head to the base.

If he roaches up, you expand and sit outside his base denying him his exp while you gain map control and you expand. This will make most players over roach and deny's them a exp for a long time. If you do this, you should Muta, since you have 4 gas's and will rotflstomp.

-Roach play

This usually needs 2 bases, and I always open with speed lings. If he expands early, your lings should be split into two groups. 1 group hits the hatch, if he moves out to attack the lings you run the other lings up the ramp to hit the main. So if he's smart he's forced to sit on the ramp and stop the exp or let it die if it's finished. At this point you should have already expanded yourself and had about 4-6 roaches coming out. Never loose the lings though unless you do huge eco damage. By the time the slow roaches get to your base, you will have enough roaches to defend and a spine up + you'll have an exp. He'll be forced to retreat. Chase if you can because while you do you should be macroing up and he'll be roaching up thinking he needs to defend. Just run away when he get's his reinforcements, and by the time you get to your base you should have another batch of roaches to hold and you'll be way ahead on drone count along with money upgrades ect.

Double hatch is rarely good because you you cannot support it early game with drone count, early exp is not very good either. Anyone that does 14 pool expand vs my 11-12 hatch dies for sure, because I just ling bane them. they will not have enough money and will not be able to use the 2nd hatch effectively because I'm always attacking with speed lings/banes.

Btw I'm 2600 now and Doom, I think I have an answer to your build now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


Hey Guys, it's masterlaw... Just found the thread.







On Holiday in Dominican Republic...

Ok ZVZ is a mirror match so you try to mirror your opponent. I've watch a lot of what PSY had to say about this and I agree and disagree with some of it.

-snip-

Btw I'm 2600 now and Doom, I think I have an answer to your build now.


Hey, nice, doom probably didn't want you to find this thread because he tells us all his secret builds here, lol, jk of course. How the vacation so far? Hopefully you're enjoying yourself. Thanks for the writeup, I'll read it carefully and see what I'm missing in my ZvsZ matchup









One thing though, you mentioned 11-12 hatch, did you make a typo there, as in 11-12 pool? Reason I ask is because you mention that going 14 hatch is automatic defeat against your 11-12 hatch, but, the same problem of not having enough to utilize it occurs, only difference is 14 hatch would be the better option due to the two extra drones









Kinda surprised you had an acct since Feb 09 though. Would be nice to see more ppl contribute to this thread, since, it's the same 10ppl or so. Soon enough, you'll be riding the BigFan disagreement train like some of the other posters are on here XD


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


Btw I'm 2600 now and Doom, I think I have an answer to your build now.


I've already got the answer to his build







Upgraded ling/banes/Ultras with a few mutas pwn him.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


One thing though, you mentioned 11-12 hatch, did you make a typo there, as in 11-12 pool? Reason I ask is because you mention that going 14 hatch is automatic defeat against your 11-12 hatch, but, the same problem of not having enough to utilize it occurs, only difference is 14 hatch would be the better option due to the two extra drones










Yeah he meant 11 pool. I ALWAYS 11 pool in ZvZ. If they try to 15hatch or so I will put spines in their base which equalizes any income difference.

Something masterlaw didn't mention, Upgrades are incredibly important in ZvZ. I was playing a game the otherday where the other guy had about a 25-30% larger army do to some eco damage he had done to me, but because I had +2/+2 and he had only +1/+1 I ended up pwning him.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Soon enough, you'll be riding the BigFan disagreement train like some of the other posters are on here XD


BigFan, I love you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


Btw I'm 2600 now and Doom, I think I have an answer to your build now.


Didn't you say that last time? The answer is macro and a lot of sling / bane. vdek has me some what figured out ( on temple at least ). Nice to see you here though!

vdek I still think you'll have problems on other maps where I can do better marine aggression. The problem with temple is if your nat goes up I either have to go dedicated cliff builds, or I really can't get at you. Obviously that's partly why you like that map vs me because I generally play it standard, and a spine can cover like the entire choke ( so its hard for me to pressure you ).

I still think you would struggle on other maps but we'll see. I'm still figuring out how to properly work in medivacs ( not so good at it yet ).

My TvP = good.
My TvZ = OK.
My TvT = Bad.


----------



## yks

vdek vs Doom on XC, Nat is super wide.

That'll have you level up hardcore.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm glad vdek is giving me some problems though ( even if I get pissed ). XC would be cool. That's the map MasterLaw usually picks.

Also no more playing me if you gotta go after vdek, that will bug me







. If I lose I want rematches ASAP.


----------



## EmMure

anyone for games? i dont wanna ladder


----------



## yellowtoblerone

too tired, waiting for gsl instead


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


too tired, waiting for gsl instead


God damnit. I should be sleepin. First time ever I have 8am classes for my final semester n I can't drop that ****. It's going to be brutal to say the least.


----------



## EmMure

doomdash cheats lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


doomdash cheats lol


----------



## yks

http://mosax.sakura.ne.jp/fswiki.cgi?page=SCFH+DSF

vdek, I use this because a lot of the Street Fighter guys use this and I've always liked the HQ Street Fighter streams.

after you extract it, make sure you hit "install64" for the 64bit version. I actually didn't see it when I first got it and hit the regular "install" and was like T_T when it wouldn't work.

edit: i have my keyframe @ 3 or 5seconds with this tho. SF guys do 10, T_T


----------



## thiru

You Tube  



 
This is why I love Destiny's stream.


----------



## yks

Way to miss out on the chat thiru!

+rep for steven tho


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


This is why I love Destiny's stream.


Zerg







.


----------



## thiru

Day9's terrible secret

I dunno if this has been posted yet but it's so funny xD


----------



## vdek

Since the reset is not coming this week or next, I'm going to make a mad dash push to 3k this weekend. I have nearly 1.4k bonus pool and I'm at 1080 points already. My MMR seems to be matching me with 2.5-2.7k players already as well. I'll probably be streaming everything too. By my back of the hand calculations, it should take me about 70-80 wins to get there or about 130 games total at my current ratio.

3k is the goal, but I'll most likely only hit around 2.5k before I get too tired to play any more.


----------



## DoomDash

Good luck it's going to get harder as you go even if you are playing high people now. You'll start to get good division 2.5K players and then higher. Plus eventually you will hit your skill level and it will feel like you are hitting a brick wall because you'll slowly get closer to 50%.

Anyway, anyone got any advice on the Protoss mission that you have to kill 2500 units in SP on Brutal? What's a good unit mix to have ect?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11923984*
> Good luck it's going to get harder as you go even if you are playing high people now. You'll start to get good division 2.5K players and then higher. Plus eventually you will hit your skill level and it will feel like you are hitting a brick wall because you'll slowly get closer to 50%.


Yeah, if I get below a 58% win ratio I'll probably stop playing for a bit and practice in customs against some other high level players.

There's a tournament coming up in NYC next weekend at Cybercraft, I'm registered as a backup but most likely will be able to play assuming enough no-shows. That's my main motivation for laddering heavily right now, need to practice for the tournament.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172621


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11924130*
> Yeah, if I get below a 58% win ratio I'll probably stop playing for a bit and practice in customs against some other high level players.
> 
> There's a tournament coming up in NYC next weekend at Cybercraft, I'm registered as a backup but most likely will be able to play assuming enough no-shows. That's my main motivation for laddering heavily right now, need to practice for the tournament.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172621


You will drop







. I'm still above 60% on huggle though... and Jedi is even higher







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11924174*
> You will drop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm still above 60% on huggle though... and Jedi is even higher
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I dunno, my ratio's actually been going up, lol.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11924130*
> Yeah, if I get below a 58% win ratio I'll probably stop playing for a bit and practice in customs against some other high level players.
> 
> There's a tournament coming up in NYC next weekend at Cybercraft, I'm registered as a backup but most likely will be able to play assuming enough no-shows. That's my main motivation for laddering heavily right now, need to practice for the tournament.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172621


Hey jediwin's in that tournament


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11924208*
> Hey jediwin's in that tournament


Yep!


----------



## rhed5

yup i should be there








vdek let me know if you want to play some games before tihs weekend


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11924130*
> Yeah, if I get below a 58% win ratio I'll probably stop playing for a bit and practice in customs against some other high level players.
> 
> There's a tournament coming up in NYC next weekend at Cybercraft, I'm registered as a backup but most likely will be able to play assuming enough no-shows. That's my main motivation for laddering heavily right now, need to practice for the tournament.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172621


I think it was said somewhere in one of the VODs I posted that ladder is the best practice you can get. Custom games - not so much. The reason being that on ladder people just want to kill you at all cost, so it's much more competitive. You also face all the variety of strategies while you practice partners are likely to be quite predictable.

The best thing to do is to ladder with a mindset of improving on specific thing, then review your lost games and repeat. It's better in the long run than just trying to win all your games which can lead to tilt quickly, because it just can't happen.


----------



## Katana

Hey, I meant to ask; I somewhat miss Goliaths from the original game (I like having a ground unit that dominates air units). I noticed that the Thor has a rocket attack for aerial enemies. I just wanted to know if that's actually a relatively good attack, or if the Thor should be saved for ground opponents.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11909430*
> _
> WOOOOOSH_
> 
> That's the sound of yks's point flying over you.
> 
> I think, Doom, yks, and I are going to have to do *some 1v1s versus you*. Until you can beat us or at least match us, you can't talk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you'll understand what yks is talking about.


I'm up for it, question is, are you? In terms of playing doom, we haven't had a 1vs1 in over 2 month, so, I have no clue as to how his skills have changed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11909624*
> Renamed the thread to SC2 strategy & discussion thread.
> Seemed fitting.
> 
> Yes I'm that picky


*TOO picky*, should've left the original title








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11911559*
> Did you actually listen to what he was trying to say for the whole time. I assume you watched Newbie Tuesday #1. He specifically targets players like you and provides reasoning and examples why you need solid macro before worrying about anything else.
> 
> You don't even have to know what magic box is, you don't need baneling micro, perfect army positioning, or even any micro at all. Also thinking in terms of unit counters is not going to help you.
> 
> Yeah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a perfect example of what I mean. Tester had all the correct "counters" to zergs units, but it didn't help him. Btw he didn't counter mutas with phoenixes, but by attacking immediately after they appeared, before Ret could even start harassing. This way he forced roaches for Ret to be able to defend. Still the super fast switch to hydras got him.
> 
> Maybe if he went for HTs instead of DTs or skipped DTs altogether for faster colossus it would work.
> 
> Still, tester played really well. Managed to do early pressure, killing the queen and forcing lings. Shut down mutas immediately and took down zerg's third. Macroed perfectly getting early expand, then more expos than zerg and constantly upgrading. And he still lost quite decisively eventually ending up with 2 bases against zerg's four. That's pure imba.


Incase you haven't realized, I'm not Tester







Having cleared that, I did listen to all of it. Infact, I started to get pretty tired by the end *gasp* because essentially, it seems that aside from the don't get supply blocked, keep making workers and don't overstress, he was trying to convey the message that if you macro better than your opponent, you'll have a bigger army which will win you the battle. BTW, since, you seem to have gotten the message so strongly, why don't you tell me what part of it I missed?









I think this point answered your point perfectly:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11911937*
> I agree that you don't need to think about units counters or micro if you're a bronze level player but after that you're going to be in a lot of trouble if you don't think about unit counters or even very minor micro. I'll give you an example, going mass marauders when your opponent goes speedlings and mutas. That's pretty much an auto loss for the T. Or how about hellions/marines vs a standard 4 gate unit comp. You're going to get your butt handed to you. I don't care how good someones macro is if they don't worry about unit counters/composition or micro they're going to lose a lot even in the lower leagues.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11911627*
> That may be a bit of an older game, but Artosis said word around Korea is Tester has an unbeatable PvZ right now. Not sure how true that would be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *Anyway, I'm glad we can all hate Zerg in agreement here.* <3 Overclock.net.


XD I don't hate Z, neither does vdek, sure masterlaw doesn't either








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11912117*
> T > Z for the first 10-15 minutes, then it gets progressively worse. And the micro / planning required later game is just so much less.


Agree. Wonder how Blizzard will make T better late game, was thinking of lockdown against P such as colossi. Would be such a game changer, even ghosts emping hts and lockdown colossi, so OP








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11922014*
> God damnit. I should be sleepin. First time ever I have 8am classes for my final semester n I can't drop that ****. It's going to be brutal to say the least.


It's really not that bad. I've had that for much longer than a semester at some points. Your body gets used to it, just don't think about it as a whole semester, think in terms of daily or weekly








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11921884*
> I'm glad vdek is giving me some problems though ( even if I get pissed ). XC would be cool. That's the map MasterLaw usually picks.
> 
> Also *no more playing me if you gotta go after vdek*, that will bug me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If I lose I want rematches ASAP.


lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11921850*
> vdek vs Doom on XC, Nat is super wide.
> 
> That'll have you level up hardcore.


True, XC's nat is super wide, too wide to protect it especially in the early game :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11923984*
> Good luck it's going to get harder as you go even if you are playing high people now. You'll start to get good division 2.5K players and then higher. Plus eventually you will hit your skill level and it will feel like you are hitting a brick wall because you'll slowly get closer to 50%.
> 
> Anyway, anyone got any advice on the Protoss mission that you have to kill 2500 units in SP on Brutal? What's a good unit mix to have ect?


I believe the recommendation was to get dts and put on hold in the entrances effectively forming a line that the Z units can't penetrate. Make lots of immortals for the hybrids as well as likely dts for that line idea. You can try feedback with hts. Finally, I think making cannons all over your base is a good idea because you'll have a ton of minerals collecting interest, not to mention all those worms popping up in your base








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11922983*
> Day9's terrible secret
> 
> I dunno if this has been posted yet but it's so funny xD


Those videos of day9 doing those silly stuff are just funny XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11924799*
> Hey, I meant to ask; I somewhat miss Goliaths from the original game (I like having a ground unit that dominates air units). I noticed that the Thor has a rocket attack for aerial enemies. I just wanted to know if that's actually a relatively good attack, or if the Thor should be saved for ground opponents.


Well, unless I'm mistaken, Thors actually attack air first then ground next. Their attack is pretty good, has a large range and does splash which is why magic boxing is essential for mutas otherwise, many will die to one thor. In terms of saving it for ground opponents, I think it's really subjective. They are a great unit all around aside from their mobility


----------



## vdek

You know what zerg need? Something like a supply depot that can lower/raise itself on a wim.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11925071*
> You know what zerg need? Something like a supply depot that can lower/raise itself on a wim.


lol, why would we need such a mechanism? We also have burrow for all our units


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Took a loss because of my *%$ internet service. 30 minutes of intense concentration, finally destroyed the enemy main and was mopping up the last enemy troops, was maybe 30 seconds away from gg, and then I get dropped and take a loss. I would do terrible things to do a Verizon employee right now. I thinking about that scene in Reservoir Dogs with the ear-cutting and gasoline.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11925163*
> lol, why would we need such a mechanism? We also have burrow for all our units


Zerg early game sucks unless you go all-in :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11924976*
> I'm up for it, question is, are you? In terms of playing doom, we haven't had a 1vs1 in over 2 month, so, I have no clue as to how his skills have changed.


Even if my skills were exactly the same you wouldn't touch me. I had better money management than you since my first day playing. Also I don't think you'd be able to touch yks or vdek either.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11924976*
> Incase you haven't realized, I'm not Tester
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having cleared that, I did listen to all of it. Infact, I started to get pretty tired by the end *gasp* because essentially, it seems that aside from the don't get supply blocked, keep making workers and don't overstress, he was trying to convey the message that if you macro better than your opponent, you'll have a bigger army which will win you the battle. BTW, since, you seem to have gotten the message so strongly, *why don't you tell me what part of it I missed?*


Applying it in practice I guess.







If you focused on those fundamentals in your games rather than many other things you talk about, which may be right, but which are quite irrelevant at your level of play, you would improve really fast. The reason why he seams to talk about pretty much the same thing over and over is because of how important it is.

I know my macro is pratty bad and is one of the main things holding me back. A lot of even mid-high diamond players think they have a good macro, while they don't.

Now if you really think you got the basics down I highly recommend you watch yesterday's daily which covers a bit more advanced stuff like zerg's timings, droning, scouting etc. It has not be uploaded yet though, but should be pretty soon.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;11924799*
> Hey, I meant to ask; I somewhat miss Goliaths from the original game (I like having a ground unit that dominates air units). I noticed that the Thor has a rocket attack for aerial enemies. I just wanted to know if that's actually a relatively good attack, or if the Thor should be saved for ground opponents.


It's decent. Most notable aspect is the spash damage, which can obliterate a pack of mutas if the Zerg player isn't paying attention. Overall, mass marines are Terran's best anti-air; just make sure you don't run them into a pack of blings or you'll get the same result that Zerg player gets when he runs his mutas into your thors.


----------



## DoomDash

Thor's AA is only good vs: Muta', Phoenix, Banshee. It's good against newbies too I guess since it will do splash if you have a lot of them and the opponent doesn't split up his units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11925251*
> Zerg early game sucks unless you go all-in :/


true indeed, I've tried to harass with Z, it stinks when you can't :/ I think I've lost as a result as well. Much easier to harass with P/T especially with sentries, the whole AA issue and stim added into the mix








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11925232*
> Took a loss because of my *%$ internet service. 30 minutes of intense concentration, finally destroyed the enemy main and was mopping up the last enemy troops, was maybe 30 seconds away from gg, and then I get dropped and take a loss. I would do terrible things to do a Verizon employee right now. I thinking about that scene in Reservoir Dogs with the ear-cutting and gasoline.


lol, good thing you don't have my net then. Defending against a cheese only to have your net disconnect you, not once, not twice, but, five times I've lost games. There might've been more and the fact that i've had my comp lag during high engagment doesn't help micro in an already bad situation :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11925348*
> Even if my skills were exactly the same you wouldn't touch me. I had better money management than you since my first day playing. Also I don't think you'd be able to touch yks or vdek either.


lol, maybe you should re-read my post. All I said was that I have no clue how much your game has changed, likewise with yks or vdek. Never said I'll win you, although, that's not outside the realm of possibility in the distant future








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11925406*
> *Applying it in practice I guess.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you focused on those fundamentals in your games rather than many other things you talk about, which may be right, but which are quite irrelevant at your level of play, you would improve really fast. The reason why he seams to talk about pretty much the same thing over and over is because of how important it is.
> 
> I know my macro is pratty bad and is one of the main things holding me back. A lot of even mid-high diamond players think they have a good macro, while they don't.
> 
> Now if you really think you got the basics down I highly recommend you watch yesterday's daily which covers a bit more advanced stuff like zerg's timings, droning, scouting etc. It has not be uploaded yet though, but should be pretty soon.


Well, it's nice to know I got the message and it's practice I need XD Even if they are irrelevant at my level, it makes for interseting discussions, not to mention that I still need to know some of those things because they become more relevant as you move up. I mean some of those counters are revelant at even my current league level, just not as much as in the diamond league


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11924185*
> I dunno, my ratio's actually been going up, lol.


So was mine. I had a 13 win streak ( on huggle ) but eventually you'll hit a wall







. There was even a moment on DoomDash I went up 3% in w/l ratio... but now I'm down 5% from that heh.

But yes you should ladder. It's tons of fun.


----------



## poroboszcz

Damn I hate banshees. Just played against T on DQ, scouted his main just after rax finished and saw 1 gas, second rax building and tech-lab. So I continue with my no robo build and just when I'm about to attack he shows up in my base with a cloaked banshee and offensively gg's. Hate this ****.









Apparently he canceled rax and tech-lab just after my probe left and teched to banshees immediately. My fault in not poking up his ramp more often.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11926287*
> So was mine. I had a 13 win streak ( on huggle ) but eventually you'll hit a wall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . There was even a moment on DoomDash I went up 3% in w/l ratio... but now I'm down 5% from that heh.
> 
> But yes you should ladder. It's tons of fun.


He doesn't ladder?















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11926295*
> Damn I hate banshees. Just played against T on DQ, scouted his main just after rax finished and saw 1 gas, second rax building and tech-lab. So I continue with my no robo build and just when I'm about to attack he shows up in my base with a cloaked banshee and offensively gg's. Hate this ****.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently he canceled rax and tech-lab just after my probe left and teched to banshees immediately. My fault in not poking up his ramp more often.


Banshees are awesome units if your opponent isn't prepared for them and if they manage to take it out, they'll start cannoning up around their base or at least making units instead of constantly making workers, etc.... I do have to say that he was smart there, made you think one thing and did another. Also, shows that even diamond players forget to scout







Although, I do think that gg is offensive as you mentioned.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just noticed his nick was Machiavelli lol. Should have expected something sneaky.


----------



## nlsthzn

That was a lot of fun... just caught up on some GSL... some nice Terran matches but Protoss seem so powerful once they get going...


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11926287*
> So was mine. I had a 13 win streak ( on huggle ) but eventually you'll hit a wall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . There was even a moment on DoomDash I went up 3% in w/l ratio... but now I'm down 5% from that heh.
> 
> But yes you should ladder. It's tons of fun.


Don't forget I'm Zerg.


----------



## ducktape

k I was just in a FFA game with a couple friends and two of them raged when I was telling the rest what unit they were massing. What's so wrong with that?


----------



## nlsthzn

poroboszcz - Thanks for the game and the tips, will definitely work on all the points you have shown me... (I am supposed to be sleeping now but the freaking night shifts have scrambled my internal clock







... lets see if a spot of tea does the trick...)


----------



## Allenssmart

OMG GUYS. How do you make bunkers fly? I can't believe that they can fly, I never knew. I can't seem to find the upgrade to get bunkers to fly though. Can someone please help me?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkQANezvBz8[/ame]


----------



## thiru

rofl


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11925406*
> I know my macro is pratty bad and is one of the main things holding me back. A lot of even mid-high diamond players think they have a good macro, while they don't.


That's something Doom and I have talked about a few times on AIM. We were talking about mechanics and mid/end game macro.

The Protoss Warp-Gate mechanics are sooo hard to master (since you can't que when things are @ ~90%). If you miss it by a few seconds _every time_, its almost suicidal.

I think this is why Nony said his mechanics in BW was sooo much better than in SC2, even though SC2 has MBS (Multiple Building Selection)

I did some math and if you're consistently missing a warp-gate cycle by even 10 seconds, the food skews hard. Assuming you have 6gates, missing it @ 10s, you're down 12 food every 3 cycles (1.5 minutes) which is 48food in 6minutes. 100food army vs 148 food army is no-bueno. (10seconds is being lenient)

After I saw Nony being straight _ruthless_ and criticize the **** out of HuK's macro and other fellow Toss' on the TL Featured Stream. I went to my replay packs of pros and just watched the WG-Cycles. I realized how much smoother stuff could be cause they be missing it by a lot too.


----------



## thiru

WG cycles are hard :/


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11926781*
> Don't forget I'm Zerg.


Even though I hate Zerg, I'll be rooting for you vdek. I think you can hit 3k, I mean you are _zerg_ after all.. =P <33

Forget ratio, as long as you're staying 52%+ you're fine. Look @ top200 sc2 ranks.


----------



## ThumperSD

I guess as long as you are at equal or higher food than your opponent, that's all that matters in the game


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well... I would root for dek but, he's zerg so...

dear blizzard, nerf mutas.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11921773*
> BigFan, I love you.


Forgot to answer this:
Disagreement != hate








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11928544*
> OMG GUYS. How do you make bunkers fly? I can't believe that they can fly, I never knew. I can't seem to find the upgrade to get bunkers to fly though. Can someone please help me?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkQANezvBz8










No such upgrade exists, that was done in an editor








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11928762*
> That's something Doom and I have talked about a few times on AIM. We were talking about mechanics and mid/end game macro.
> 
> The Protoss Warp-Gate mechanics are sooo hard to master (since you can't que when things are @ ~90%). If you miss it by a few seconds _every time_, its almost suicidal.
> 
> I think this is why Nony said his mechanics in BW was sooo much better than in SC2, even though SC2 has MBS (Multiple Building Selection)
> 
> I did some math and if you're consistently missing a warp-gate cycle by even 10 seconds, the food skews hard. Assuming you have 6gates, missing it @ 10s, you're down 12 food every 3 cycles (1.5 minutes) which is 48food in 6minutes. 100food army vs 148 food army is no-bueno. (10seconds is being lenient)
> 
> After I saw Nony being straight _ruthless_ and criticize the **** out of HuK's macro and other fellow Toss' on the TL Featured Stream. I went to my replay packs of pros and just watched the WG-Cycles. I realized how much smoother stuff could be cause they be missing it by a lot too.


Well, I think it's nice that not only Z has to work with timing(spawn larvae)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11929396*
> I guess as long as you are at equal or higher food than your opponent, that's all that matters in the game


That pretty much defines SCII, provided his units don't hard counter yours, otherwise, it's a one way battle XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11929556*
> Well... I would root for dek but, he's zerg so...
> 
> dear blizzard, nerf mutas.


Ain't gonna happen, best to learn to deal with them. I had a game where my opponent would have 2 stalkers with a ht, then proceed to storm the hell out of my mutas everytime I got close. I almost lost like 14 of them, manevouring around one storm is easy, several is hard if not impossible if your opponent reads your moves perfectly :/


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60Tyler

Nony streaming.

Anyways, BigFan, Spawn Larva is more forgiving than WG-Cycles. And stop looking at counters. And if disagreement = hate, I hate you more than anyone. And stop being wrong.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60Tyler

Nony streaming.

Anyways, BigFan, Spawn Larva is more forgiving than WG-Cycles. And stop looking at counters. And if disagreement = hate, I hate you more than anyone. And stop being wrong.


lulz


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Anyways, BigFan, Spawn Larva is more forgiving than WG-Cycles. And stop looking at counters. And if *disagreement = hate*, I hate you more than anyone. And stop being wrong.


Actually, WG is more forgiving. You seem to forget we need to make both workers and units(as in army) from our hatcheries, so, that's one less larvae to make workers/army. With WG, at least you can try to use cb(if any stored) to make up for missing an army unit. You can also still make workers and others unit that aren't from WG









I doubt I'll stop looking at counters anytime soon







I don't *plan on stopping to being wrong* because I'm not







As for the bold, reread post:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Disagreement != hate










!= means "doesn't equate to"







Means just because we disagree doesn't mean we hate each other


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Actually, WG is more forgiving. You seem to forget we need to make both workers and units(as in army) from our hatcheries, so, that's one less larvae to make workers/army. With WG, at least you can try to use cb(if any stored) to make up for missing an army unit. You can also still make workers and others unit that aren't from WG










You can't honestly believe WG CD is more forgiving.

Queen Energy and WG CD is not the..... you know what, nevermind. I'll let you stay in delusion-city. Ignorance is bliss after all. I wish I can be blissfully happy like you. <33

Sorry, I didn't see the ! in front of the =, my mistake there, brah. I'm used to =/=


----------



## CramComplex

can we please get some OCN team games going? btw i play for fun~

(before I go back to LALA-work land)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11930354*
> You can't honestly believe WG CD is more forgiving.
> 
> Queen Energy and WG CD is not the..... you know what, nevermind. I'll let you stay in delusion-city. Ignorance is bliss after all. I wish I can be blissfully happy like you. <33
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see the ! in front of the =, my mistake there, brah. I'm used to =/=


Yes, I do believe it's very forgiving especially if you have cb stored up. I think we should agree to disagree, because, we aren't going to see eye to eye on this







It's np, we all make mistakes


----------



## Mwarren

Finally on the road to mid diamond. I've been beating 2300+ diamonds on ladder recently.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Finally on the road to mid diamond. I've been beating 2300+ diamonds on ladder recently.


Nice work, keep at it!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11929974*
> Forgot to answer this:
> Disagreement != hate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No such upgrade exists, that was done in an editor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I think it's nice that not only Z has to work with timing(spawn larvae)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That pretty much defines SCII, provided his units don't hard counter yours, otherwise, it's a one way battle XD
> 
> Ain't gonna happen, best to learn to deal with them. I had a game where my opponent would have 2 stalkers with a ht, then proceed to storm the hell out of my mutas everytime I got close. I almost lost like 14 of them, manevouring around one storm is easy, several is hard if not impossible if your opponent reads your moves perfectly :/


The real problem is muta giving zerg total map control. Until protoss get to 3 bases, they don't have the gas to make enough HT, stalkers and sentries. If you go HT, stalkers, then lings will kill your army. If you have enough sentries, then you won't have enough the stalker or HT to deal with mutas. However zerg can switch it up wave after wave. If you move out then your probe line is gone as 2-3 cannons won't even buy you enough time to warp in ht or stalkers against mass mutas.

It's all about bringing zerg's macro to the Toss' macro level, so when zerg mutas do come, the toss can just push in and kill zerg base instead. However mutas give zerg so much map control that they go 3-4 base or more instead of toss's 2 or 3. It makes it almost impossible to win unless the strat is changed to 2 base 6gate timing push after FE or 4gate. Both strats can be hard countered by good zerg. The only macro strat I've seen work 50% of the time is do whatever it takes to go on 3 bases while turtling and trying to max out asap. Then you can push in with a superior army before zerg gets brood or ultras. If zerg gets to hive tech before you get to 3 base with good army marco, then it's impossible for toss to win.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11930524*
> The real problem is muta giving zerg total map control. Until protoss get to 3 bases, they don't have the gas to make enough HT, stalkers and sentries. If you go HT, stalkers, then lings will kill your army. If you have enough sentries, then you won't have enough the stalker or HT to deal with mutas. However zerg can switch it up wave after wave. If you move out then your probe line is gone as 2-3 cannons won't even buy you enough time to warp in ht or stalkers against mass mutas.
> 
> It's all about bringing zerg's macro to the Toss' macro level, so when zerg mutas do come, the toss can just push in and kill zerg base instead. However mutas give zerg so much map control that they go 3-4 base or more instead of toss's 2 or 3. It makes it almost impossible to win unless the strat is changed to 2 base 6gate timing push after FE or 4gate. Both strats can be hard countered by good zerg. The only macro strat I've seen work 50% of the time is do whatever it takes to go on 3 bases while turtling and trying to max out asap. Then you can push in with a superior army before zerg gets brood or ultras. If zerg gets to hive tech before you get to 3 base with good army marco, then it's impossible for toss to win.


As long as you harass the zerg and deny expansions(I think dts work for a while(scouting, quick attacks) until they get detection), you'll be able to come out ahead macro wise and likely win the game. Upgrades are vital in PvsZ. I believe that +1 zealots will 2 shot a nonupgraded zling/sling which makes a big difference







If you cannon your mineral line, place 2 stalkers+1 ht. When they come to attack and you notice that they might withdraw, storm behind them(prediction of how they move) and you'll be able to do some major damage(not kill but wound a decent amount into yellow range).

A good idea is to build more warpgates/robo bays/stargates with each exp. One of my opponents would add 4 or so wrapgates with each exp and once on three bases, you can imagine how many units he can wrap in at once. Even after I harassed him in the early game at his weakest, he somehow held on and came out on top in the later game :/

I should mention I've heard 2 gate stargate works well against Z. Maybe make 2 phenoixes or so and harass OLs. That'll at least force him to move his OLs back or make more mutas at which point storms would do well against them. I haven't had much PvsZ so I can't comment more, mostly from what I've heard/read









Edit: I should mention a little tip: Mutas might be fast but their acceleration is slow which is when you can take advantage and why getting a good storm will do some decent damage


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11928266*
> poroboszcz - Thanks for the game and the tips, will definitely work on all the points you have shown me... (I am supposed to be sleeping now but the freaking night shifts have scrambled my internal clock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... lets see if a spot of tea does the trick...)


No problem. You've got many things right, just work on those basics and you should be out of bronze in no time. Also try to watch those Day 9 videos I posted few pages back if you haven't already.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11928762*
> That's something Doom and I have talked about a few times on AIM. We were talking about mechanics and mid/end game macro.
> 
> The Protoss Warp-Gate mechanics are sooo hard to master (since you can't que when things are @ ~90%). If you miss it by a few seconds _every time_, its almost suicidal.
> 
> I think this is why Nony said his mechanics in BW was sooo much better than in SC2, even though SC2 has MBS (Multiple Building Selection)
> 
> I did some math and if you're consistently missing a warp-gate cycle by even 10 seconds, the food skews hard. Assuming you have 6gates, missing it @ 10s, you're down 12 food every 3 cycles (1.5 minutes) which is 48food in 6minutes. 100food army vs 148 food army is no-bueno. (10seconds is being lenient)
> 
> After I saw Nony being straight _ruthless_ and criticize the **** out of HuK's macro and other fellow Toss' on the TL Featured Stream. I went to my replay packs of pros and just watched the WG-Cycles. I realized how much smoother stuff could be cause they be missing it by a lot too.


I don't mean just protoss macro. In general a lot of 2k+ players have a bad macro while they think it's amazing just because they manage to keep money low.

I actually can't even do that. My minerals regularly go up to 1 - 1.5k in some games I win against ~2.5k players, which means I'm doing something right, but I could've done much better by just spending all the money. At the same time it means that their macro is at least as bad, because it's still better to sit on 1k minerals with 68 workers than be constantly broke with 45.

Now regarding WG mechanics one tip I've heard recently from iNcontrol is that you shouldn't aim to sync your units warp in with all your gates cooldown. Maybe you know it already, but it has actually helped me quite a bit. Just spend your money as soon as possible, rather then for example stack 500 minerals to simultaneously warp in stalkers from 4 gates. One of the advantages is gives is that you burn money instantly. The other one is that you probably are always going to have some available gate to make a unit in case you need it immediately (eg. sentry in PvZ or HT in PvT).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11929556*
> Well... I would root for dek but, he's zerg so...
> 
> dear blizzard, nerf mutas.


They are by phoenix buff.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11930108*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid%60Tyler
> 
> Nony streaming.


I really like his streams. High quality, good music (especially compared to HuK lol). He was even playing today rather than just commentating.


----------



## EmMure

big fan games?!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


big fan games?!!!


Hoping to get on in 1.5hr time or so, so, we can get some rolling then, writing something atm









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't mean just protoss macro. In general a lot of 2k+ players have a bad macro while they think it's amazing just because they manage to keep money low.

I actually can't even do that. My minerals regularly go up to 1 - 1.5k in some games I win against ~2.5k players, which means I'm doing something right, but I could've done much better by just spending all the money. At the same time it means that their macro is at least as bad, because it's still better to sit on 1k minerals with 68 workers than be constantly broke with 45.

Now regarding WG mechanics one tip I've heard recently from iNcontrol is that you shouldn't aim to sync your units warp in with all your gates cooldown. Maybe you know it already, but it has actually helped me quite a bit. Just spend your money as soon as possible, *rather then for example stack 500 minerals to simultaneously warp in stalkers from 4 gates*. One of the advantages is gives is that you burn money instantly. The other one is that you probably are always going to have some available gate to make a unit in case you need it immediately (eg. sentry in PvZ or HT in PvT).


hmm, I thought the idea was to use wrapgates as much as possible and constantly make units and not wait on money to pile up?







At least I was doing that in a PvsP I had and kept my money lowish(in comparison to my usual 1k+ XD).


----------



## EmMure

hurry up i wanna 1v1 damn it lol


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


hurry up i wanna 1v1 damn it lol


i'm up for some, but i'll be using my tablet









if anyone would like some custom SC2 avatars like mine please PM me


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't mean just protoss macro. In general a lot of 2k+ players have a bad macro while they think it's amazing just because they manage to keep money low.

I actually can't even do that. My minerals regularly go up to 1 - 1.5k in some games I win against ~2.5k players, which means I'm doing something right, but I could've done much better by just spending all the money. At the same time it means that their macro is at least as bad, because it's still better to sit on 1k minerals with 68 workers than be constantly broke with 45.

Now regarding WG mechanics one tip I've heard recently from iNcontrol is that you shouldn't aim to sync your units warp in with all your gates cooldown. Maybe you know it already, but it has actually helped me quite a bit. Just spend your money as soon as possible, rather then for example stack 500 minerals to simultaneously warp in stalkers from 4 gates. One of the advantages is gives is that you burn money instantly. The other one is that you probably are always going to have some available gate to make a unit in case you need it immediately (eg. sentry in PvZ or HT in PvT).


Ya, I know a lot of people got bad macro, or rather, it slips a lot, even at the 3k+ range. I just brought up Toss macro mechanics cause we are both Toss and didn't want a wall of text talking about everyone elses macro mechanics.

I never wait for simultaneous warps as well, but it doesn't change that its a hard mechanic to master. I knew it beforehand, but watching Nony pick and prod @ even HuK, made me stress over it more.

Watching a lot of my replays, I could easily of been up 30 more food in army, not just workers. Which just comes with the need of more practice, I guess.

Then I watch some HuK or KiwiKaki replays, and I notice that they could've been up ~15-20 or so food in army if their mechanics were perfect that game.

Damn you WG-Mechanics. But don't even get me started on Terran End-Game mechanics, that's just brutal for T.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Damn you WG-Mechanics. But don't even get me started on Terran End-Game mechanics, that's just brutal for T.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyway, anyone got any advice on the Protoss mission that you have to kill 2500 units in SP on Brutal? What's a good unit mix to have ect?



Bump.


----------



## EmMure

did u check liquid?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11930983*
> Bump.


Iirc I covered the whole base with cannons and used mainly air and some colossi with phoenixes lifting all the hybrids. Plus all the upgrades you can get obviously.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Bump.


Huh? Did you skip my response? I answered it a couple of posts back with the dt trick, immortals for hybrids, etc....









Edit: and I quote:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I believe the recommendation was to get dts and put on hold in the entrances effectively forming a line that the Z units can't penetrate. Make lots of immortals for the hybrids as well as likely dts for that line idea for the second entrance. You can try feedback with hts. Finally, I think making cannons all over your base is a good idea because you'll have a ton of minerals collecting interest, not to mention all those worms popping up in your base


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Huh? Did you skip my response? I answered it a couple of posts back with the dt trick, immortals for hybrids, etc....









Edit: and I quote:


Must have missed it. I will try it out. Thanks.


----------



## thiru

That mission was quite fun. In the end all I had left were a bunch of carriers trying to scrape the last hundred kills


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


That's something Doom and I have talked about a few times on AIM. We were talking about mechanics and mid/end game macro.

The Protoss Warp-Gate mechanics are sooo hard to master (since you can't que when things are @ ~90%). If you miss it by a few seconds _every time_, its almost suicidal.

I think this is why Nony said his mechanics in BW was sooo much better than in SC2, even though SC2 has MBS (Multiple Building Selection)

I did some math and if you're consistently missing a warp-gate cycle by even 10 seconds, the food skews hard. Assuming you have 6gates, missing it @ 10s, you're down 12 food every 3 cycles (1.5 minutes) which is 48food in 6minutes. 100food army vs 148 food army is no-bueno. (10seconds is being lenient)

After I saw Nony being straight _ruthless_ and criticize the **** out of HuK's macro and other fellow Toss' on the TL Featured Stream. I went to my replay packs of pros and just watched the WG-Cycles. I realized how much smoother stuff could be cause they be missing it by a lot too.


It might be a good idea to always add a robo/stargate to a build then since it would allow you to compensate for missing WG cycles. Personally when I play as toss I'm always pressing 'w' to check the status of my warpgates, I try to never miss it by more than 2-3 seconds. It's hard though to always be on time throughout a 15-30minute game.


----------



## Mwarren

I still say that the best way to beat Z as any race is by "sharking" and keeping the zerg on the edge and denying him control of the xel naga towers. Even if you have nothing just kill a few lings, move forwards a little bit more, then run back so he doesn't drone all day. zerg is the most defense oriented race IMO so you have to be aggressive if you don't want them to have the advantage.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I still say that the best way to beat Z as any race is by "sharking" and keeping the zerg on the edge and denying him control of the xel naga towers. Even if you have nothing just kill a few lings, move forwards a little bit more, then run back so he doesn't drone all day. zerg is the most defense oriented race IMO so you have to be aggressive if you don't want them to have the advantage.


i'm zombiehunter. are you who i think you are?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Must have missed it. I will try it out. Thanks.


np, GL with that


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


i'm zombiehunter. are you who i think you are?


Sovern, the one that's been training you lol.


----------



## BigFan

How goes the mission Doom?








If anyone is interested in a game, I'm on for a little while


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*










Bump.


When I did that, I did majority void rays, phoenix, collosi and immortals...no GW units really plus rushed to get the high-yield...can't remember if i did 2500 but i think i did close to that


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


How goes the mission Doom?








If anyone is interested in a game, I'm on for a little while










I don't know yet, I usually wait till everyone is sleeping to play SP.

Anyway I just had a crazy come back in a pretty short game. I literally lost 20~ SCV's in the first 10 minutes and came back to win it with a very sick Siege tank position ( drop ). I recommend checking it out, the game was only 12 minutes long but I literally had only 6 SCV's after losing a ton.



This is why I don't leave until I know I'm 100% done.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


It might be a good idea to always add a robo/stargate to a build then since it would allow you to compensate for missing WG cycles. Personally when I play as toss I'm always pressing 'w' to check the status of my warpgates, I try to never miss it by more than 2-3 seconds. It's hard though to always be on time throughout a 15-30minute game.


Nothing can compensate for missing WG cycles. If you have a robo or star, you want to make out of it WHILE constantly making out the WG.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Nothing can compensate for missing WG cycles. If you have a robo or star, you want to make out of it WHILE constantly making out the WG.


Yah of course, that's what I mean. By missing WG cycles you will have extra money available which you can use via Robo's/Stargates.


----------



## yks

I'm confused, but its all good brah.


----------



## dezshiz

Herp derp anyone wants to play? looking for a practice partner.. I'm a silver player


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dezshiz*


Herp derp anyone wants to play? looking for a practice partner.. I'm a silver player


add me...I'm done with yks's avatar

CramComplex : 759


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dezshiz*


Herp derp anyone wants to play? looking for a practice partner.. I'm a silver player


BigFan is Silver and would probably practice with ya.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


add me...I'm done with yks's avatar

CramComplex : 759



cant wait to see it


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11933606*
> cant wait to see it


i sent you the link already via privy PM and it's in my albums...just DL it


----------



## nlsthzn

Nice avatars!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Indeed both are very nice.


----------



## dezshiz

Good ol TvT... 1:30 hour game time... won at the end thanks to cloaked banshees...


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezshiz;11934581*
> Good ol TvT... 1:30 hour game time... won at the end thanks to cloaked banshees...


That's a long time to concentrate


----------



## vdek

Me and yks just had a pretty ridiculous and hilarious game:


----------



## yks

That was probably the best game I ever had in SC, ever.

I can't believe you planned that from the start!


----------



## DoomDash

Doom vs his gf ( who I always let win ).

1350~ marines built ( watch in 8x ).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11934712*
> Me and yks just had a pretty ridiculous and hilarious game:












Somehow it seem like not real game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11934842*
> 
> Somehow it seem like not real game.


That game was serious business since vdek is preparing in base proxy hatch strats for his upcoming tournament.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11934852*
> That game was serious business since vdek is preparing in base proxy hatch strats for his upcoming tournament.


It's a good way to counter proxy cannons









My ZvZ is by far ome of the cheesiest games I play though I must say.


----------



## yks

I was trying to do a canon contain!!!!









At least mine's sort of legitimate. ;]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

How could you not scout.. COMON.


----------



## DoomDash

After about 30 failed attempts ( including loading from save games ), I finally beat that damn Protoss mission on brutal.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11934852*
> That game was serious business since vdek is preparing in base proxy hatch strats for his upcoming tournament.


----------



## thiru

Vdek should totally do the proxy hatch evo bust.


----------



## nlsthzn

@poroboszcz - Your tips have had me win 4 games VS Protoss and Zerg... thanks... my only problem is now I have to start working on building some macro play into the mix (but the opponent normaly dies on the first push)...

Lost two games vs Terran though... need other plan for them...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11935716*
> @poroboszcz - Your tips have had me win 4 games VS Protoss and Zerg... thanks... my only problem is now I have to start working on building some macro play into the mix (but the opponent normaly dies on the first push)...
> 
> Lost two games vs Terran though... need other plan for them...


Yeah that's often how it happens in the lower leagues. One guy macros better than the other and it's over in one battle.

Wanna play a game?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11935736*
> Yeah that's often how it happens in the lower leagues. One guy macros better than the other and it's over in one battle.
> 
> Wanna play a game?


Always up to better my game







Thanks!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11935716*
> @poroboszcz - Your tips have had me win 4 games VS Protoss and Zerg... thanks... my only problem is now I have to start working on building some macro play into the mix (but the opponent normaly dies on the first push)...
> 
> Lost two games vs Terran though... need other plan for them...


Against terran you could try something like this: http://www.youtube.com/user/MakhStarcraft#p/search/1/o91uvfB3Cdo

And you should also learn 1/1/1 opening which is ok against all three races and gives you a lot of options for the later game.

At your level though it's more about learning hotkeys and making SCVs. You don't need more than 2 or 3 builds, just try to make sure you execute them well.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11935736*
> Yeah that's often how it happens in the lower leagues. One guy macros better than the other and it's over in one battle.
> 
> Wanna play a game?


Thanks for the game and the pointers... still have a long way on this journey...


----------



## thiru

It never ends.

Well, maybe if you win a GSL or five.

edit: btw this thread is the number one thread in this section in post number









BUT WHY IS IT 4 STARS? VOTE!

second edit: oh it's 5 stars now... must have happened recently lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss players: Have you tried a timing push similar to Nony's ( cutting probes using chrono ect ), with hallucination ( for stalkers or w/e )? I never see anyone use it besides for scouting but it theory you could have those tank a ton of damage.


----------



## thiru

Hallucinated Immortals are the best. They still have shields.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11936245*
> Hallucinated Immortals are the best. They still have shields.


Yeah so why aren't people using that? 300 HP 100 of which does the damage reduction seems like it would be pretty sick does it not?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11936286*
> Yeah so why aren't people using that? 300 HP 100 of which does the damage reduction seems like it would be pretty sick does it not?


Actually I take what I said back. Since hallucinated units take double damage, a hallucinated immortal takes 'normal' damage from marauders on their shields. But they're still the better choice because immortals at the front line are less suspicious than colossi.

But Colossi wouldn't hurt either, even if you already have some, to provoke mass vikings.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11934480*
> Nice avatars!


Tell me about it, seems everyday someone gets some nice avatar, making me want to replace mine ASAP








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11934768*
> Doom vs his gf ( who I always let win ).
> 
> 1350~ marines built ( watch in 8x ).


1350?







What did you guys do? Constant back and forth? btw, she could be reading this ^^








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11936099*
> It never ends.
> 
> Well, maybe if you win a GSL or five.
> 
> edit: btw this thread is the number one thread in this section in post number
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT WHY IS IT 4 STARS? VOTE!
> 
> second edit: oh it's 5 stars now... must have happened recently lol.


lol, even if you win a GSL, it still never ends








oops, my fault, I think I voted for 1 star(terrible) because I don't like the OP. That guy is too picky/pushy, what have you XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11936180*
> Protoss players: Have you tried a timing push similar to Nony's ( cutting probes using chrono ect ), with hallucination ( for stalkers or w/e )? I never see anyone use it besides for scouting but it theory you could have those tank a ton of damage.


Hallucinate while is good, could be better spent on ff. I think making a pheonix using hallucination is great and all for scouting but going mass hallucination over ff can be a bad idea(of course, add 2-3 units into your mix with hallucination







)


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan my gf keeps her money lower than you







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11937727*
> BigFan my gf keeps her money lower than you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


XD and she's probably played more than me as well


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11937800*
> XD and she's probably played more than me as well


I use her account all the time... she never plays.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11937815*
> I use her account all the time... she never plays.


XD Well, what can I say? She has better spending than me







My spending slips once mid game hits because I'm usually doing some attacks by then and as a result, I don't manage my resources :/

Edit: BTW, doom forgot to ask, total workers at main by midgame? It's easy to keep your money low if you have only so many workers. Once you have a lot more, it becomes much more difficult to keep your money down unless you queue workers as T, expand all over the map and constantly making units as Z/P









Here's something I noticed last night: you and vdek in your games at one point had over 600 minerals and this was early in the game as well


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11936245*
> Hallucinated Immortals are the best. They still have shields.


So true.

anyone watching reddit invite? Psy just came back vs terran name janok. Game's still going.


----------



## thiru

Why is this thread 4 stars again?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11938539*
> Why is this thread 4 stars again?


I forgot to rate it, my bad









my vote didn't take it up to 5? *rage*


----------



## Mwarren

Hallucinated mothership for the win!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11938539*
> Why is this thread 4 stars again?


lol, those voting the thread down probably dislike the OP















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11939125*
> Hallucinated mothership for the win!


Impossible, can't be done unfortunately. Would make for an interesting game though if you could. Imagine what your opponent will think if you had several of them XD

Thinking about what we've discussed in this thread so far about SC2, I got a new idea of what we can talk about. It would make for some interesting readings considering everyone's will be vastly different








Q: What if any dream have you had relating to SCII?

If everyone is interested, I don't mind writing down mine


----------



## vdek

I have nightmares of 2raxs and engineering bays in my natural.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11939609*
> I have nightmares of 2raxs and engineering bays in my natural.


U serious?









I don't have those kind of nightmares since I never get 2 rax although I think one guy tried and failed miserably XD In one of my dreams, I was playing a game and was constantly rewinding it and fixing my mistakes because I kept on losing. I was able to eventually win the game after so many tries. Can't recall the races and map unfortunately







, but, 7-8hr playing SC2 is a bit much XD

Before anyone mentions, yes I'm fully aware of REM/non-REM sleep, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11937851*
> 
> Here's something I noticed last night: you and vdek in your games at one point had over 600 minerals and this was early in the game as well


600 minerals is nothing compared to you. 600 is also one of my high points through out the entire game, compared to you six digits as the game goes on. I know exactly when I get 600 its just about every time I am pushing with my 2 rax FE because you literally are pulling in more money than you can build units when you are double muling in your base, and generally it only takes me a couple seconds to properly place that down into more barracks and double ebay.

Also I don't even play Zerg much and I keep my money low with them even easier than T. P is the hardest to spend money due to warp gate cycles imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11939919*
> 600 minerals is nothing compared to you. 600 is also one of my high points through out the entire game, compared to you six digits as the game goes on. I know exactly when I get 600 its just about every time I am pushing with my 2 rax FE because you literally are pulling in more money than you can build units when you are double muling in your base, and generally it only takes me a couple seconds to properly place that down into more barracks and double ebay.
> 
> Also I don't even play Zerg much and I keep my money low with them even easier than T.


lol, three errors with your statement: First, most I've ever hit was 11k when I was on five bases against katana that one game, never 6 digits. My least was 500-600 in a PvsP I had about a week ago, so, I know its doable









Second, it was actually vdek who had 600 not you in that game, since, it seems that he was going for a hatch but you denied it. I think him putting a crawler or two since he wasn't able to get that hatch and his money was piling would've been a better idea than letting it stockpile, but, what do I know? I'm only silver.

Third, idea was mostly to point that money can be stockpilied even in the early game. I don't have issues with early, only mid+ but I've been working on rectifying that


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11940027*
> lol, three errors with your statement: First, most I've ever hit was 11k when I was on five bases against katana that one game, never 6 digits. My least was 500-600 in a PvsP I had about a week ago, so, I know its doable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, it was actually vdek who had 600 not you in that game, since, it seems that he was going for a hatch but you denied it. I think him putting a crawler or two since he wasn't able to get that hatch and his money was piling would've been a better idea than letting it stockpile, but, what do I know? I'm only silver.
> 
> Third, idea was mostly to point that money can be stockpilied even in the early game. I don't have issues with early, only mid+ but I've been working on rectifying that


I meant 5 digits anyway. You had 10,000 minerals and slightly less gas vs him. Funny part is you only had like 130 supply and had larva all over.

Jediwin said it best: You had so much APM for so little actions.


----------



## thiru

Damn there are 10 streams on TL covering 7 tournaments... dunno what to watch.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Damn there are 10 streams on TL covering 7 tournaments... dunno what to watch.


http://www.bitsperbeat.com/ussc2/?site=brackets#round6

Made it to the final 16. Damn Z.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I meant 5 digits anyway. You had 10,000 minerals and slightly less gas vs him. Funny part is you only had like 130 supply and had larva all over.

Jediwin said it best: You had so much APM for so little actions.


I do the usual stuff, so, I don't know why my APM shoots up although 70ish isn't exactly high :/ I don't spam my APM to get it higher, tried spamming several times in the early game but find it useless(my opinion), so, I just don't do it







I also don't have my spawn larvae times down(get screwy as game goes) and I mess up my rally points


----------



## DoomDash

Oh yeah the rally points are a pretty big problem. I noticed that quite a few times in a few of your games.

Well spamming is really only good for getting your hands a little warmer. IDK about you but my hands always seem to be freezing when I play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Oh yeah the rally points are a pretty big problem. I noticed that quite a few times in a few of your games.

Well spamming is really only good for getting your hands a little warmer. IDK about you but my hands always seem to be freezing when I play.


Even though I had them all rallied to one point, I still had units hatchering and staying at my bases, going to start using more control groups to fix that issue








You seem to forget where I live, its freezing here on a daily basis although it's been nice the last while


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11940464*
> Even though I had them all rallied to one point, I still had units hatchering and staying at my bases, going to start using more control groups to fix that issue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to forget where I live, its freezing here on a daily basis although it's been nice the last while


I don't live far from you







.


----------



## Gigalisk

This thread is 4 stars because it needs its own subforum.

amiright?


----------



## DoomDash

It's 4 stars because TA fans are still hurt about being over shadowed by SC.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=182734

WOOOOOOO!! GSL Map Change!!!!

They are removing: Steppes, Blistering, Delta, and an unknown one.

And adding their own!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11940698*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182734
> 
> WOOOOOOO!! GSL Map Change!!!!
> 
> They are removing: Steppes, Blistering, Delta, and an unknown one.
> 
> And adding their own!!!!


Yeah pretty cool. That one Blizzard one though they are thinking about adding, not a fan.


----------



## yks

Yeah, it's in testing, hopefully that one doesn't go through, the Blizzard one has too many choke points and high-ground. All of which is in the middle too. Then its super open.


----------



## Gigalisk

What's TA?

...Exactly.









No really, whats TA? I mean, i got a hell of an imagination...


----------



## thiru

Total Annihilation.

They've been hating for 12 years.


----------



## Gigalisk

I kinda hated Blizzard for 12 years, then they came out with SC2. And i was like YAAY. Couldn't play wow for 6+ years.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Total Annihilation.

They've been hating for 12 years.


Yeah for real.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Damn there are 10 streams on TL covering 7 tournaments... dunno what to watch.


I'm watching TL open, SC2reddit and PokerIdol while also playing the game. I've just came 1 minute late into the game because of alt-tabbing and still won.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't live far from you







.


lol, well, you don't know where I live







Only cram has any idea atm, although, you can probably guess close enough









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Total Annihilation.

They've been hating for 12 years.


well, there's nothing wrong with hating sc2. Everyone has their opinion about the game. Personally, I don't *hate* but dislike SupCom. I think it's a good game but having a 100+ army ripped a new one by 2 turrets from a range of 30 is not my idea of a balanced gameplay. At least, reduce their range a bit so that I can get some hits.

Likewise, those shield generators that form a shield are a problem. I couldn't come from the front so went for an air approach. It took me 200+ bomber planes(went to the max game allowed) to even take one out with a couple of other structures around taken out and guess what, that shield generator was up and running in no time. I did manage to get through 6-7 missions on hard, must've taken me over 30 hours(5-6 per mission) XD

On the bright side, I liked the ability to zoom. Gfx are top notch and still look awesome although a bit brownish and gameplay in general isn't bad. I didn't try FA yet, have it though. I liked the idea of nuke interceptors, experimental units, etc.... I guess experimental units are kinda like the mothership although those things take such a long time to make(queue 30+min at least with one worker :/) but are fantastic, who can resist a 65k hp unit. Maybe we should all play a game of SupCom sometime for lols?









/experience

Anyways, seeing those maps made my eyes water a bit XD They all look fantastic and really hope they make their way to the ladder, because, there are so many different paths to the enemy, etc.... Only issue is some seem imba for T because of all the high ground for tanks but I don't really care









2vs2 sometimes are such a lol fest. 2Ps go for mass VRs, so, I go for mass marines+thors+ghosts for emp and emMule goes for corruptors. Some emps and with splash, his VRs are vaporized, all 20+ with barely any loss. Then they go for mothership and carriers, took me by surprise when we entered their base but you can guess the outcome XD The remaining guy decides to just cannon up so makes like 30 cannons around his nexus near a gold and I start nuking 10 cannons at once till I get to the nexus. Then he pauses the game, resumes after a while and leaves


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=182734

WOOOOOOO!! GSL Map Change!!!!

They are removing: Steppes, Blistering, Delta, and an unknown one.

And adding their own!!!!


Mehhh all macro maps.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Macro maps are the best. Even though Xel and steps are both good.

You can't hate blizzard for 12 years. SC1 was pretty good. I also heard that diablo series was good too.

Man psy got destroyed in the reddit invite.

Toss air is so weak. It's not that the units are weak, but it forces you to spend so much on those units that can be taken down in a flash.

Here's my day:


















Loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss

Ffffffffffff


----------



## Mwarren

Heh if you think that Toss has weak air you haven't played Terran yet.


----------



## DoomDash

Terran air does suck, but vikings are very good against a few specific units.... really good.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11941461*
> lol, well, you don't know where I live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only cram has any idea atm, although, you can probably guess close enough


I do? LOL jk...wait lemme read the entire thread from where I left...

And yes...Terran air are only counter units and not general purpose units except for the Medivacs :/


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11941768*
> Macro maps are the best. Even though Xel and steps are both good.
> 
> You can't hate blizzard for 12 years. SC1 was pretty good. I also heard that diablo series was good too.
> 
> Man psy got destroyed in the reddit invite.
> 
> Toss air is so weak. It's not that the units are weak, but it forces you to spend so much on those units that can be taken down in a flash.
> 
> Here's my day:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss
> 
> Ffffffffffff


techd rays are devastating to alot of **** when charged


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11941807*
> Terran air does suck, but vikings are very good against a few specific units.... really good.


I agree, banshess are pretty good too. It sucks that our only air unit that attacks ground and air is the BC though, since its all of the way at the end of the tech tree. While P and Z has mutas and voids.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11941896*
> I agree, banshess are pretty good too. It sucks that our only air unit that attacks ground and air is the BC though, since its all of the way at the end of the tech tree. While P and Z has mutas and voids.


^^ This!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11941792*
> Heh if you think that Toss has weak air you haven't played Terran yet.


True indeed, its weaker but vikings are decent for colossi and for quick dropins, banshees are nice for some run and hit attacks and ravens aren't too bad for ppd and their turrets, etc.... On the other side, phenoixes are great against mutas with micro, VRs are devastating when charged up and wrap prism is great for wraping in units into a base(think dts), so, really both have decent units, just gotta know the best scenario to use them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11941896*
> I agree, banshess are pretty good too. It sucks that our only air unit that attacks ground and air is the BC though, since its all of the way at the end of the tech tree. While P and Z has mutas and voids.


Isn't it convenient that marines are the counter to both? XD


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11942007*
> True indeed, its weaker but vikings are decent for colossi and for quick dropins, banshees are nice for some run and hit attacks and ravens aren't too bad for ppd and their turrets, etc.... On the other side, phenoixes are great against mutas with micro, VRs are devastating when charged up and wrap prism is great for wraping in units into a base(think dts), so, really both have decent units, just gotta know the best scenario to use them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it convenient that marines are the counter to both? XD


Definitely, I realized that. Marines are without a doubt the best t1 unit in the game. They are as good as your micro can make them. Want to play a game Bigfan?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11942007*
> 
> Isn't it convenient that marines are the counter to both? XD


That's if they all don't die instantly to AoE.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11942026*
> Definitely, I realized that. Marines are without a doubt the best t1 unit in the game. They are as good as your micro can make them. Want to play a game Bigfan?


Agree, marines are a great t1 unit and if you can micro well, they are even better. Can't atm, but, will be on in a bit(hoping 30min or at least 9 EST) since I gotta get to bed early tonight :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11942039*
> That's if they all don't die instantly to AoE.


Yes, but, we are just considering mutas or VRs on their own(realize hts or colossi can accompany them or our units)


----------



## yks

Excuse me, let me have a flying unit that can heal _and_ transport.

Medivacs really skew up the math.

Or a reactor so I can get x2 Phoenix


----------



## thiru

Excuse, let me have a unit that can transport _and_ spawn units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Excuse me, let me have a flying unit that can heal _and_ transport.

Medivacs really skew up the math.

Or a reactor so I can get x2 Phoenix


Your units auto heal at a incredibly fast rate.

Also you are getting reactors for you phoenix, in the form of a -10 second build time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Excuse, let me have a unit that can transport _and_ spawn units.


Yeah, sick.


----------



## DoomDash

In the next patch you can make 2 phoenix in less time than it takes to make 2 vikings from a reactor if you use chrono boost ( from one stargate ).


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Your units auto heal at a incredibly fast rate.

Also you are getting reactors for you phoenix, in the form of a -10 second build time.

Yeah, sick.


Thats only out of combat and shield only. Healing during AND after a fight > Out of Combat Regen.

-10 second build time is only an extra phoenix every 5 Phoenix if you are constantly producing. Versus the simultaneous production. Incomparable.

Your Vikings can hit my Colossi, I wish my Phoenix can LIFT (or even HIT) your Thor.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Thats only out of combat and shield only. Healing during AND after a fight > Out of Combat Regen.

-10 second build time is only an extra phoenix every 5 Phoenix if you are constantly producing. Versus the simultaneous production. Incomparable.

Your Vikings can hit my Colossi, I wish my Phoenix can LIFT (or even HIT) your Thor.


With Chrono boost you can still produce Phoenix much faster, and no reactor required ( not limiting your choices ).

Also, that's what voidrays are for ( Thor ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Excuse me, let me have a flying unit that can heal _and_ transport.

Medivacs really skew up the math.

Or a reactor so I can get x2 Phoenix


lol, I think the idea here is spawn larvae=reactor=chronoboost, so, that there are faster battles because of these mechanics. Whether they are all as good as each other is another topic









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Thats only out of combat and shield only. Healing during a fight > Out of Combat Regen.

-10 second build time is only an extra phoenix every 5 Phoenix if you are constantly producing. Versus the simultaneous production. Incomparable.

Your Vikings can hit my Colossi, I wish my Phoenix can LIFT (or even HIT) your Thor.


I agree, healing during a flight > out of combat regeneration. Use phoenixes to lift tanks if you are going into a MMMT line, maybe some harass, although, I can see the idea of using several to lift thors


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Mehhh all macro maps.


I bet you play terran.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Excuse, let me have a unit that can transport _and_ spawn units.


And is produced from a structure that is better producing anything else, is super slow and dies to 1 marine in a second.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I bet you play terran.

And is produced from a structure that is better producing anything else, is super slow and dies to 1 marine in a second.


Alone it dies. I use A follow with them in the back of my army. Instant reinforcements. Super strong, and super underrated. Most Protoss players just use them dumb all alone or in front of their army so far.

Also I like macro maps. Shakuras is my current fav.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I bet you play terran.

And is produced from a structure that is better producing anything else, is super slow and dies to 1 marine in a second.


He does play T but there's nothing wrong with disliking macro maps. As for wrap prisms, they bring a new ability to the field. Personally, I like them, really interesting when paired with WGs


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


With Chrono boost you can still produce Phoenix much faster, and no reactor required ( not limiting your choices ).

Also, that's what voidrays are for ( Thor ).


Your Vikings take care of my air AND Colossi, while I need two air units for Thor/Vikings? So you need 1 air unit and I need 2? Hardly sounds fair.

And your Thor can fight back, my Colossi can't even fight back. Even less fair.

And since you only need 1 air unit, I can't produce fast enough. 1 minute VR build time vs 42second Viking x2 Reactor Starports? And I gotta balance in Phoenix with the VR?


----------



## thiru

Been a while since we had one of these.


----------



## BigFan

^^lol, this ain't gonna end anytime soon, better make some popcorn


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Your Vikings take care of my air AND Colossi, while I need two air units for Thor/Vikings? So you need 1 air unit and I need 2? Hardly sounds fair.

And your Thor can fight back, my Colossi can't even fight back. Even less fair.

And since you only need 1 air unit, I can't produce fast enough. 1 minute VR build time vs 42second Viking x2 Reactor Starports? And I gotta balance in Phoenix with the VR?


Balance it against what unit composition? Phoenix actually beat vikings in equal numbers FYI. Also Colossus has huge AoE and I would say is far more powerful than the Thor in most situations. So phoenix is countered by Thor's, so what? Can't have them just pick up everything.

And balancing out the proper units is a part of every race.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^lol, this ain't gonna end anytime soon, better make some popcorn










Nah.
Sigh.


----------



## DoomDash

Nothing wrong with some friendly arguing.


----------



## thiru

You're not our friend, Terran scum.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're not our friend, Terran scum.


Take a look in the mirror brah.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nothing wrong with some friendly arguing.


I know, I'm the king of arguments here XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're not our friend, Terran scum.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I know, I'm the king of arguments here XD


If by king you mean ganged up on.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Balance it against what unit composition? Phoenix actually beat vikings in equal numbers FYI. Also Colossus has huge AoE and I would say is far more powerful than the Thor in most situations. So phoenix is countered by Thor's, so what? Can't have them just pick up everything.

And balancing out the proper units is a part of every race.


But I'll never be in equal numbers because like you said, I'd need VRs in the mix to take care of Thors.

While all you need is Vikings.

The debate originally came from you guys saying Terran Air is weak. When it's not. Me needing VR+Phoenix and you needing only Vikings is a clear cut example.


----------



## yks

Y'all say arguments, I say debate.


----------



## DoomDash

Only needing vikings for WHAT UNIT COMPOSITION?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If by king you mean ganged up on.


I prefer to call it the BigFan Disagreement Train, don't worry, your ticket is for a lifetime XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I prefer to call it the BigFan Disagreement Train, don't worry, your ticket is for a lifetime XD


The only train system to progressively get more passengers these days.


----------



## DoomDash

3 screen SCII:

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Only needing vikings for WHAT UNIT COMPOSITION?


You go MM, I go Gate Units
You add in a Medivac, I go Colossi (to deal with the skewed math your Medivacs bring)

You see Colossi, and go Vikings since you already have a Starport (with reactor)

Assuming I go air (since it's an AIR unit debate, when really I should go templars) I make Phoenix.

Then you get a thor, since you need some form of tier 3 for endgame.

Forces me to get VRs (like you said in the AIR debate)

while you constantly are producing vikings.

So to conclude, I have to ADD IN* a Stargate, while you already have your Port. And I have to make 2 types of AIR units for your composition

ie. your air is better.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


He does play T but there's nothing wrong with disliking macro maps. As for wrap prisms, they bring a new ability to the field. Personally, I like them, really interesting when paired with WGs










It's kind of typical to terran players. Most of them just don't seem to know what an expansion is so no wonder they dislike maps that actually make the game interesting.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Alone it dies. I use A follow with them in the back of my army. Instant reinforcements. Super strong, and super underrated. Most Protoss players just use them dumb all alone or in front of their army so far.

Also I like macro maps. Shakuras is my current fav.


Well, you have no choice if you're going to be any good.

As for the warp prsim I agree they are underused and there's probably no point in comparing them to medivacs.

It's like comparing colossi to thors, while it's obvious that thors are superior, because they can shot both ground and air (with decent range and splash), are faster to tech to, can be repaired making them really hard to kill, have a spell (while not being affected by feedback any more), and can't be shot by air units.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're not our friend, Terran scum.


+rep


----------



## DoomDash

You don't need void rays, colossus do more than enough to take out that ground and make you victorious, especially when you have phoenix taking out vikings. But as you said you can just go Templar anyway since its by far better.

Also if you believe Thors are superior to Colossus that's a joke. More well rounded? Yeah probably, better against ground ? Not a chance. You also only listed Thor advantages... plenty of Colossus advantages. ****, the being targeted by air thing is almost a plus since at times you can force people to commit to ****ty units and simply tech switch.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


+rep


You need to look in the mirror as well traitor!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It's kind of typical to terran players. Most of them just don't seem to know what an expansion is so no wonder they dislike maps that actually make the game interesting.

Well, you have no choice if you're going to be any good.

As for the warp prsim I agree they are underused and there's probably no point in comparing them to medivacs.

It's like comparing colossi to thors, while it's obvious that thors are superior, because they can shot both ground and air (with decent range and splash), are faster to tech to, can be repaired making them really hard to kill, have a spell (while not being affected by feedback any more), and can't be shot by air units.

+rep


Macro maps make the game more interesting........., interesting. I find large macro maps to be quite boring, especially in mirror matchups. Expect a long game with more straightforward play for the most part. I'm not saying that macro maps are bad just that they can be boring sometimes particularly when dealing with mirror matchups.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't need void rays, colossus do more than enough to take out that ground and make you victorious, especially when you have phoenix taking out vikings. *But as you said you can just go Templar anyway since its by far better*.

Also if you believe Thors are superior to Colossus that's a joke. More well rounded? Yeah probably, better against ground ? Not a chance. You also only listed Thor advantages... plenty of Colossus advantages. ****, the being targeted by air thing is almost a plus since at times you can force people to commit to ****ty units and simply tech switch.


For the bold: But the debate is about air and how you/Mwarren/Cram think Terran air is weak, when in actuality it's not. Me having to go Templars cause its better than going air for airwars is another proof that terran air is better. Templars are ANOTHER tier 3 unit (colossi), while vikings are tier 2.

The fact that you need less tier 3 units because your tier2 AIR vikings do so well against my Colossi is further proof Terran air is better than Protoss air.

As for Colossi vs Thor, I'm not gonna get into that because the original argument was "Terran air is bad" when it's not.

edit: I'm not talking about the matchup in general, I think the matchup is fine and probably most balanced matchup. I'm PURELY talking about air.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


For the bold: But the debate is about air and how you/Mwarren/Cram think Terran air is weak, when in actuality it's not. Me having to go Templars cause its better than going air for airwars is another proof that terran air is better. Templars are ANOTHER tier 3 unit (colossi), while vikings are tier 2.

The fact that you need less tier 3 units because your tier2 AIR vikings do so well against my Colossi is further proof Terran air is better than Protoss air.

As for Colossi vs Thor, I'm not gonna get into that because the original argument was "Terran air is bad" when it's not.

edit: I'm not talking about the matchup in general, I think the matchup is fine. I'm PURELY talking about air.


Terran air is not as well rounded as P air. I'd take the void ray over any Terran air personally, but it doesn't matter because we are arguing for 2nd best air anyway. We all know the king of the skies.


----------



## Mwarren

LOL, zerg of course. The thing with zerg's air is that its so damn expensive though. Unit for unit toss definitely has better air than terran though. I'd take a void ray vs a viking any day of the week myself EXCEPT when going up against collosus







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


LOL, zerg of course. The thing with zerg's air is that its so damn expensive though. Unit for unit toss definitely has better air than terran though. I'd take a void ray vs a viking any day of the week myself EXCEPT when going up against collosus







.


Zerg air isn't all that expensive, especially for how damn good it is.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*but it doesn't matter because we are arguing for 2nd best air anyway. We all know the king of the skies.*


Your words just speak to me here.

I love how the OCN unanimous hate for Zerg automatically gives us something to agree on.

We're competing/aruging for *2nd* best air. ROFL.

I HATE YOU ZERG.

But still, Toss has it worse.


----------



## DoomDash

Voidray is juice, get outta here with your Protoss air QQ







.

Voidray is easily top 5 or at least top 10 best units in the game.

Speaking of which, make your *opinion* on the 10 best units in the game:

1) Mutalisk

2) Marine

3) Roach

4) Marauder

5) Colossus

6) Voidray

7) Sentry

8) Siege Tank

9) Templar

10) Tie : Thor / Zergling


----------



## yks

You forgot banelings in your list, they're imba!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You forgot banelings in your list, they're imba!


They are imba only vs specific units, and they are situational or only good in X match up. I wouldn't list them in the top 10 even if I think they are bull****. I don't even hate Muta's like you but the Muta is a better unit than the baneling for many many reasons. I have no problem with that though.

Where is your list?


----------



## yks

1) Probe (my shields harass best)
2) Marine
3) Roach
4) Mutalisk
5) Sentry (FF > ALL)
6) Banelings
7) Colossi
8) Infestor
9) Templar
10) Tank


----------



## Allenssmart

dark templars are op and should be taken out of the game


----------



## yks

My list is purely statistics and mathematics though. and not personal taste


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


dark templars are op and should be taken out of the game


Do you see that on our top 10 best units lists?







It's not that good, its good, but not that good.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The only train system to progressively get more passengers these days.


lol, I dunno know:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're not our friend, Terran scum.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


+rep


looks to me like the doom train is filling up faster than the BigFan one XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't need void rays, colossus do more than enough to take out that ground and make you victorious, especially when you have phoenix taking out vikings. But as you said you can just go Templar anyway since its by far better.

Also if you believe *Thors are superior to Colossus *that's a joke. More well rounded? Yeah probably, better against ground ? Not a chance. You also only listed Thor advantages... plenty of Colossus advantages. ****, the being targeted by air thing is almost a plus since at times you can force people to commit to ****ty units and simply tech switch.


Actually, I agree that colossi are awesome units, but, so, are thors. They are more well rounded(ground + air) and their cannons can decimate colossi in no time, now if only I can remember to use them against SSC









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran air is not as well rounded as P air. I'd take the void ray over any Terran air personally, but it doesn't matter because we are arguing for 2nd best air anyway. *We all know the king of the skies.*



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


LOL, *zerg of course*. The thing with zerg's air is that its so damn expensive though. Unit for unit toss definitely has better air than terran though. I'd take a void ray vs a viking any day of the week myself EXCEPT when going up against collosus







.


Sounds to me like you guys should switch to P and they should switch to T









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Your words just speak to me here.

I love how the *OCN unanimous hate for Zerg *automatically gives us something to agree on.

*We're competing/aruging for 2nd best air. *ROFL.

I HATE YOU ZERG.

But still, Toss has it worse.


Dream on, P/T can be as deadly as Z air. Darn, where's vdek when I need him! XD


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do you see that on our top 10 best units lists?







It's not that good, its good, but not that good.


it's permanently cloaked and can 1 hit kill a marine and therefore op


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


it's permanently cloaked and can 1 hit kill a marine and therefore op


 Implying terran doesn't have more accessible and mobile flying DTs anyway.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


it's permanently cloaked and can 1 hit kill a marine and therefore op


use ravens, scans, turrets to reveal them then they are easy to take out







Also, marines <<< dts when they are in groups









Edit: So, as I see it now:
poroboszcz, thiru, yks vs. DoomDash, Mwarren, Cram(you should jump in). Still missing Cory who will likely take P side, vdek for Z and me for .....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


looks to me like the doom train is filling up faster than the BigFan one XD



If they hate me for playing Terran they hate themselves as well for being Terrans.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


it's permanently cloaked and can 1 hit kill a marine and therefore op


Only marines with out shields brah.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Implying terran doesn't have more accessible and mobile flying DTs anyway.


Yeah banshee > DT.


----------



## Mwarren

1) Marine (most micro intensive unit in the game, if microed effectively marines can take on any unit in the game)

2) Marauder

3) High Templar (storm and feedback are as powerful as hell and melt a bio army faster than collosus)

4) Sentry (probably the most micro intensive spell caster in the game, can make or break you)

5) Colossus

6) Mutalisk

7) Raven (PDD makes stalkers useless, auto turret rapes mineral lines, seeker missile has incredible AOE and on top of all of this it has stealth detection)

8) Siege Tank

9) Infestors

10) Void Ray


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If they hate me for playing Terran they hate themselves as well for being Terrans.


As I mentioned to yks earlier:
Disagreement != hate
therefore, thinking you're a scum != hate T != hate themselves


----------



## DoomDash

God I hate that you listed seeker missile. -1. Also its AoE sucks.. obviously didn't use it in beta when it was good







.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


1) Marine (most micro intensive unit in the game, if microed effectively marines can take on any unit in the game)

2) Marauder

3) High Templar (storm and feedback are as powerful as hell and melt a bio army faster than collosus)

4) Sentry (probably the most micro intensive spell caster in the game, can make or break you)

5) Colossus

6) Mutalisk

7) Raven (PDD makes stalkers useless, auto turret rapes mineral lines, seeker missile has incredible AOE and on top of all of this it has stealth detection)

8) Siege Tank

9) Infestors

10) Void Ray


teach me how to micro marines


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


God I hate that you listed seeker missile. -1. Also its AoE sucks.. obviously didn't use it in beta when it was good







.


lol, ravens are so OP, like hts. I mean what does Z have? Infestors? psh, those things are wearing "target me" signs by being just big, purple and wiggly XD


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


God I hate that you listed seeker missile. -1. Also its AoE sucks.. obviously didn't use it in beta when it was good







.


Lol, it rapes banelings though and if your opponent doesn't expect it, it can wipe out a ball of mutas and other groups of units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


teach me how to micro marines










Marine micro is pretty easy. Move, A, Move, A, Move A ect ect. Just learn the timing. There are more advanced techniques too but that's the jist of it. If you get good at Marine micro you'll love the first few minutes of TvZ mmm mm mm.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Lol, it rapes banelings though and if your opponent doesn't expect it, it can wipe out a ball of mutas and other groups of units.












Do you even play Terran? I swear I wouldn't guess it by reading your posts. Life must be nice in Plat







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Speaking of which, make your *opinion* on the 10 best units in the game:


Based on how they can win games and/or cuteness:

1. Void Ray
2. Banshee
3. Mutalisk
4. DT
5. Roach
6. Marine
7. Sentry
8. Phoenix
9. Photon Cannon
10. Marauder


----------



## banded1

this guy made me lol

he tried to 7 pool me. after the game i asked why he quite and he says he accidentally surrendered after i squashed his first rush. i dont understand how you can accidentally surrender








http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...basin#rd:units
i asked him for a quick custom 1v1 and he quickly declined saying he had to go, then proceed to play another 3 games lol


----------



## DoomDash

Every loss I've had I accidentally surrendered.


----------



## banded1

lol yea...








he said he accidentally hit "s" in the menu screen. i checked the replay and it showed him click the second barracks i was building shortly before he left. theres no way you can accidentally hit f10 and s


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11943663*
> Every loss I've had I accidentally surrendered.


lol, I've lost all my games from disconnects XD

Nice to see you back banded


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11944241*
> lol, I've lost all my games from disconnects XD


I just remember u playing that pretty bad Diamond ( now Plat ) T player, looking like you were going to win it ( 50 minutes in )... and you disc! I would be so pissed. At least it wasn't a ladder game, I hate disconnecting in ladders. I've got about 5-10 disconnects myself in ladder ( crashes when my RAM was bad, OCZ Gold DDR3, and some random internet cut-offs ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11944271*
> I just remember u playing that pretty bad Diamond ( now Plat ) T player, looking like you were going to win it ( 50 minutes in )... and you disc! I would be so pissed. At least it wasn't a ladder game, I hate disconnecting in ladders. I've got about 5-10 disconnects myself in ladder ( crashes when my RAM was bad, OCZ Gold DDR3, and some random internet cut-offs ).


I know, it was a shock but considering I had no clue what he had planned at that gold, maybe it was for the better XD Having said that, I did have another exp taken and there were another 3 more than I could've easily taken(one behind my base, 2 others adjacent to my base(left)), so, I could've taken that had I moved all my drones and destroyed those rocks in the back of my base







My disconnects are all net related and I experience crazy lag when there are many units on screen even with this 570(might tone down settings to reduce that :/). I should mention though that if we compare our disconnects to our number of games played, might are a much greater value(%) than yours


----------



## DoomDash

Well of course.


----------



## BigFan

You know, I'm fine with disconnects, they come and go, but, the game alt-tabbing out RIGHT as I engage my Z opponet is ridiculous. PvsZ on meta, he gets a large hydras force, so, I decide to try hts with storm and made the chargelots+stalker with some sentries. Idea was to storm and try to push back using sentries. Right as the battle is about to start, because, he was on the move, game alt-tabs out, not once but twice, I got back in less than 10sec later, only 4 zealots+3 stalkers left


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11944675*
> You know, I'm fine with disconnects, they come and go, but, the game alt-tabbing out RIGHT as I engage my Z opponet is ridiculous. PvsZ on meta, he gets a large hydras force, so, I decide to try hts with storm and made the chargelots+stalker with some sentries. Idea was to storm and try to push back using sentries. Right as the battle is about to start, because, he was on the move, game alt-tabs out, not once but twice, I got back in less than 10sec later, only 4 zealots+3 stalkers left


Imagine if you were trying to keep marines alive vs banes when the game alt tabs







. Never happened but I would just imagine it being bad.


----------



## DoomDash

BTW I forgot how much fun SP is... though Brutal makes me very mad.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11944689*
> Imagine if you were trying to keep marines alive vs banes when the game alt tabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Never happened but I would just imagine it being bad.


I can only imagine








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11944807*
> BTW I forgot how much fun SP is... though Brutal makes me very mad.


SP is fun to play, wish the story had more depth to it though. I don't mind happy ending if you can even call it that, but, the more complex, the more interesting the story









Man, I wonder if this tilt will ever go away, 0-2 again tonight :/ First game, I get the alt tabbing and can't let any storms off as a result. Second game, TvsT on scrap, I decide to do a hellion drop but my timing was really off, although I did kill some of his units. He eventually tried to attack with MMM and some bc. Made a lot of vikings in anticipation and placed my tanks near a choke between my main and exp, so, he lost all his bcs, backed off and I got his exp on that little island, so, I was optimistic.

Everything from there went downhill. Due to lacking of scouting, I didn't see him massing thors until a bit too late to make more tanks. He ended up getting like 7-8 thors with some MMM so even though I caught him at a choke between our 2 bases(through those 2 rocks), I still needed a couple more units(mostly tanks), so, I lost my main and my 2 exps. Funny enough, I take refuge on that island and nuke his main 3-4 times taking out a lot of depots and some army units before he's finally able to take it out. Total time > 1hr XD

Edit: Look at that, 2222


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Everytime I come back here I gota check 5 pages back since my last conversation. Hold on.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11945865*
> Everytime I come back here I gota check 5 pages back since my last conversation. Hold on.


I feel your pain









I only got two hours sleep between an annoying cat and Day[9] in my head going "...build a probe, build a pylon... build a probe, build a pylon..."

I should not have watched those clips of him right before bed


----------



## Mwarren

My TvP matchups have become a joke ever since I got decent at 2 rax expanding. It used to be my hardest matchup, its funny how much of a difference a build order can make. Now my hardest matchup is TvZ. I feel your pain DoomDash. Its so hard to keep zerg from expanding and getting map control once he gets his third down or your first big push fails.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11949393*
> My TvP matchups have become a joke ever since I got decent at 2 rax expanding. It used to be my hardest matchup, its funny how much of a difference a build order can make. Now my hardest matchup is TvZ. I feel your pain DoomDash. Its so hard to keep zerg from expanding and getting map control once he gets his third down or your first big push fails.


It will only become harder. I think Zerg is the most rewarding race for a macro player, and a good macro player is probably in pretty high Diamond. The difference in skill between even a 2300~ Zerg and a 3000 Zerg is like worlds apart.


----------



## thiru

Kiwikaki used an mothership to recall his stalkers after they sniped 2 hatcheries and the lair (no more overseer) against Machine.

And just now he did an archon toilet on a dozen corrupters vs Morrow!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

with mamaship? did kiwi go collosus as well?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


with mamaship? did kiwi go collosus as well?


No. The one against machine he just had gateway units and the first one against Morrow he had HT and archons.

He did one too in the second game against Morrow just now, had colossi, but he won before he could use it.

edit: 3rd game between Morrow and Kiwikaki is pretty epic right now.


----------



## DoomDash

According to the division tier lists + SC2ranks I am ranked #879 in NA by Blizzards top 200 standards. Pretty neat







.

http://sc2ranks.com/masters/us/800

Though I'm not sure it includes every division, maybe only the known ones.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


According to the division tier lists + SC2ranks I am ranked #879 in NA by Blizzards top 200 standards. Pretty neat







.

http://sc2ranks.com/masters/us/800

Though I'm not sure it includes every division, maybe only the known ones.


Yeah only the ones where they can calculate it, so probably only the divisions where there are at least 2 TOP200 players.

Minigun WhiteRa and Machine going to Semi finals of the Reddit Invitational.

Morrow vs Kiwikaki game 5 right now to decide the fourth









edit: watch out Doom, Blinker's gonna knock you out of the top 4 and make it an all protoss podium


----------



## DoomDash

no linky?


----------



## thiru

Link:
http://www.justin.tv/screddit#/w/742191408/2


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Look at that, 2222











Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I feel your pain









I only got *two hours sleep *between an annoying cat and Day[9] in my head going "...build a probe, build a pylon... build a probe, build a pylon..."

I should not have watched those clips of him right before bed










hmm, I watched it before bed and even almost fell asleep and had to pause for a min or two, lucky for me, I didn't hear him repeat that in my head









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It will only become harder. I think Zerg is the most rewarding race for a macro player, and a good macro player is probably in pretty high Diamond. The difference in skill between even a 2300~ Zerg and a *3000 Zerg *is like worlds apart.


hmm, I watched a game from one of Cory's clanmates named Jake who was a Z. I would've never guessed he was 3.1k by the way he played









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


edit: watch out Doom, Blinker's gonna knock you out of the top 4 and make it an all protoss podium










Doom knows that he can't compete, thus, he's giving up


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, I watched it before bed and even almost fell asleep and had to pause for a min or two, lucky for me, I didn't hear him repeat that in my head









hmm, I watched a game from one of Cory's clanmates named Jake who was a Z. I would've never guessed he was 3.1k by the way he played









Doom knows that he can't compete, thus, he's giving up










Pshh. How many of these higher Protoss's are in S class divisions? Doesn't count when your points aren't even worth the same as mine







. My score is higher than some 2800+ people in MMR + points.

Also why @ Jake? Jake is pretty solid from what I can tell. He slaughtered me, but TBH a high ladder Z slaughtering me is not surprising.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pshh. How many of these higher Protoss's are in S class divisions? Doesn't count when your points aren't even worth the same as mine







. *My score is higher than some 2800+ people in MMR + points*.

Also why @ Jake? Jake is pretty solid from what I can tell. He slaughtered me, but TBH a high ladder Z slaughtering me is not surprising.


That's cause you're always on XD

As for jake, well, he made several mistakes one that could've won him the game much much earlier. His opponent didn't 2 rax FE and instead went with some hellions to harass(not much damage) followed by MMT which failed badly because he waited too long. Basically, to me, Jake's mistakes didn't seem like something a 3.1k diamond player would do









Nice game by WhiteRa, surprised he didn't lose any colossi and had most of his army intact. I was pretty confident that he'll lose at half of them, guess VRs are just that good against corruptors, should probably start to include them more in my games


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That's cause you're always on XD

As for jake, well, he made several mistakes one that could've won him the game much much earlier. His opponent didn't 2 rax FE and instead went with some hellions to harass(not much damage) followed by MMT which failed badly because he waited too long. Basically, to me, Jake's mistakes didn't seem like something a 3.1k diamond player would do










Maybe it has to do with Zerg being so damn good







.

Always on has nothing to do with it.. and I'm not always on really, much less than most. Spend more time here.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Maybe it has to do with Zerg being so damn good







.

Always on has nothing to do with it.. and I'm not always on really, much less than most. Spend more time here.


Well, Z is good but so is P/T. I think when expanding, you should add more structures(I'm sure you already do this), so, that you can remake your army ASAP after an engagement. WhiteRA just took two games from EGMachine, not sure how good machine is, but, he was definitely macroing well, so, obviously its possible, just gotta be optimistic









^^Can't be much less than me XD Well, whenever I get on, I see you on, so, I only have that to base it on


----------



## DoomDash

I should be playing more, especially if I want to get as good as I want to be







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I should be playing more, especially if I want to get as good as I want to be







.


Tell me about it XD 
<-- Points









Edit: Nice battle because SSC+VRs against Roaches+Hydras+Corruptors








Edit 2: WhiteRa lost, oh well, name is odd though, reminds me of those Yu-gi-oh episodes with the god cards and all


----------



## EmMure

eg ftw


----------



## BigFan

Nice game by WhiteRa and EG. Now that's how you play P, one cannon and didn't lose many probes to muta harass


----------



## EmMure

machine is a beast


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


machine is a beast


Well, I'm not doubting that machine is a beast but WhiteRa tamed him in those games. Their second and fourth games were very well played from both sides, but, WhiteRa just played flawlessly. His stalker micro, some of his ffs, early harass, game sense(moves stalker in time to counter mutas), etc.... were great. Given I was also writing on here, so, maybe I missed some mistake he made. I liked how he made some cannons because you keep on hearing everyone mention that its a bad idea to make cannons or crawlers because they are somewhat stationary(crawlers can move), but, I'm starting to think they don't know what they are talking about


----------



## EmMure

i much rather watch machine then idra play frankly i think idra is a douche and a *******


----------



## Mwarren

WhiteRa obviously didn't play flawless if he lost lol.


----------



## CramComplex

where are the finals!??!!? i gotta work in 2 hours >_<

anyway...IMHO TotalBiscuit just got another fan and Day9 can stick to teaching LOL but nothing beats the Casting Archon Tastosis~

And they're on!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11952936*
> WhiteRa obviously didn't play flawless if he lost lol.


It's game 3 he lost on LT I believe because he wasn't able to sustain production of colossi+other units since he was getting attacked relentlessly by machine with roaches+hydras although he fended off the first attack pretty well. Those 4 colossi just chewed through that army and the stalker fended off the corruptors decently. I was referring to games 2 and 4








Also, WhiteRa won the series 3-1, so, not too sure what you mean that he lost.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11953052*
> where are the finals!??!!? i gotta work in 2 hours >_<
> 
> anyway...IMHO TotalBiscuit just got another fan and Day9 can stick to teaching LOL but nothing beats the Casting Archon Tastosis~
> 
> And they're on!!!


No clue, maybe 7 EST, although a bit too late now XD


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i'm having an argument with a friend. he says the correct term for building a wall of buildings to stop your enemy from going through is called a "wall in" and I hear "wall off". which one is right?


----------



## EmMure

wall off


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11954499*
> guys i'm having an argument with a friend. he says the correct term for building a wall of buildings to stop your enemy from going through is called a "wall in" and I hear "wall off". which one is right?


I believe wall off is the correct term


----------



## yks

It's both.....


----------



## EmMure

nah wall off is more correct cause ur doing it to keep them out


----------



## yks

...


----------



## ThumperSD

I need me a Brotoss avatar


----------



## yks

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14211-mvp-crushes-nestea-at-gainward-finals

where are the VODs to these games? anyone know? replays?

pics here: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=2529791


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11956019*
> http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14211-mvp-crushes-nestea-at-gainward-finals
> 
> where are the VODs to these games? anyone know? replays?
> 
> pics here: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=2529791


no clue, lol.

Someone get on, let's get some games going!


----------



## holyherbiness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11954499*
> guys i'm having an argument with a friend. he says the correct term for building a wall of buildings to stop your enemy from going through is called a "wall in" and I hear "wall off". which one is right?


Haha, really? Does it even matter? I have used both, as well as choked, blocked, etc...


----------



## yks

Don't miss GSL tonight!!

MarineKing vs CLIDDEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11956427*
> Don't miss GSL tonight!!
> 
> MarineKing vs CLIDDEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!


TvsT, how boring









Well, finally won tonight







Went 2-1, although the first game(PvsT) that I won was ridiculous. The guy I was playing against had only marines by the time I attacked with colossi and tried a 2 rax attack early on which did some decent damage first time(lost lots of probes) but nothing the next.

[funny game]

My TvsZ was a nightmare though. I decided to try a 2 rax FE although my timings were messed up and I wasn't able to take out the exp, but, at least I delayed it(engineering bay). He went fast roach when he saw the 2 rax and was able to kill the marines as I ran them away after doing some damage, but, not enough :/ He then attacked with his roaches and I was able to hold on even though I only had a marauder and a bunker XD

Expanded after that because I had a cc all finished and tried to tech up to tanks for banes. Then he comes in with my 10 mutalisks, does some damage and runs away from my marines







I was able to recover and decided to go for a drop, 5 medivacs with 2 thors, with marines(upgraded +1/+1). I did some damage but lost all my units minus 4 medivacs. Well, I learned my lesson there







So, I went for good old MMMT+ 2 thors + some vikings and just as I was able to move out, he comes with a ton of slings+banes+at least 13 BLs. Well, you can guess the rest







Should've realized that he was teching up because he was mostly doing general harass with mutas and nothing else :/
[/funny game]


----------



## DoomDash

Muta's are great at buying time for teching / expanding.


----------



## EmMure

yup muta's are awesome for harassing and dangerous in grps


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11956668*
> Muta's are great at buying time for teching / expanding.


The thing is, I just knew he was going for mutas(most Zs do and I always do), so, I should've gotten a bay much faster, but, I seem to delay that like my evo chamber. His BLs just took me by surprise. My thought was that I'll seige up infront, with my MMM+thors, his mutas wouldn't attack and I'll use my thors for protection against banes to absorb their damage. Seems like scouting is my biggest issue and is really my main cause for loses because I only realize what my opponent builds when they move out, so, if I don't have the tech to counter, then it's pretty much GG, although, spending is also another









[rant]

Like my last ZvsT on meta, we were close to each other, me @ 6 and him @ 3. He tries a bunker push right after my exp finishes and I had a 2 crawlers in the making. I was able to take out an SCV but the second bunker finished just in time. He kept on attacking then moving back to safety. Eventually, I was able to take it out. Expanded after and went for a mixture of slings+banes+roaches+mutas. He attacks with MMMT, I take it out. He says that it's pretty much game over.

A bit later, attacks with thors, so, I had to withdraw my mutas and survive it only for him to attack with another small group of MMM+2 thors. I was still able to take this out but I had no clue he was going for thors. It's true that Z can tech switch faster than other races, but, with T/P, you get several units from the same structure, so, you can still surprise your opponent if you prevent them from scouting(switch from tanks to thors and back, gateways units, etc....).

I was planning to try a baneling drop onto his mineral line since I've never done it in a ladder game and he attacked right as I loaded the OLs, so, I rallied my units to attack and concentrated on dropping banes on top as well as possible, since, I started to get some crazy lag :/ The good thing about that game was that I was able to expand to a third fast enough and took a fourth(didn't get many workers on it), but, my mineral count was through the roof by the end because I had a ton of drones on minerals and could only makes so many units due to the number of hatcheries I had(4 hatcheries, 5th in new exp).

[/rant]

BTW, to address your micro point about banes from a previois post, its true that I usually *dump* my army onto my opponent's army because unlike pros, I have issues with spending and if I believe that my army can match my opponents, I don't mind losing it all then quickly rebuilding. Of course, there are certain units that I'll focus on if I believe they are a threat such as tanks or maybe marines first then marauders using mutas(provided I have sufficient amount). I do micro a lot in the early game since I'm usually limited on units, but, not as much late game









^^Unless you don't magic box and they have thors or hts for storm


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11956756*
> 
> BTW, to address your micro point about banes from a previois post, its true that I usually *dump* my army onto my opponent's army because unlike pros, I have issues with spending and if I believe that my army can match my opponents, I don't mind losing it all then quickly rebuilding. Of course, there are certain units that I'll focus on if I believe they are a threat such as tanks or maybe marines first then marauders using mutas(provided I have sufficient amount). I do micro a lot in the early game since I'm usually limited on units, but, not as much late game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^Unless you don't magic box and they have thors or hts for storm


Well you can only get away with that so long








.

You vs my gf sometime







?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11956810*
> Well you can only get away with that so long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> You vs my gf sometime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


I know, but, when he has mostly MMM against my slings+banes, there isn't much of a reason to try to target his units because the splash of the banes will still get the marines, plus I have 3k+ minerals, so, I can keep on rebuilding slings for the next 5-10mins XD
Well, I'm up for it, although, it would bad if I lost XD

Edit: Now that I think about it, I play Z correctly. I mean I build enough units to survive the attack while collecting resources to get upgrades, etc.... and making more for the next attack(or counter attack) XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11956831*
> I know, but, when he has mostly MMM against my slings+banes, there isn't much of a reason to try to target his units because the splash of the banes will still get the marines, plus I have 3k+ minerals, so, I can keep on rebuilding slings for the next 5-10mins XD
> Well, I'm up for it, although, it would bad if I lost XD


I don't think she'd beat you yet, but I think her mechanics are better than yours. She's just way way too passive right now, and she can't really identify Zerg structures or Protoss structures ( and what they do ).

As for your spending and micro, just remember you've lost games vs Cram I believe because of that thought process of yours, games you should have easily won.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11956867*
> I don't think she'd beat you yet, but I think her mechanics are better than yours. She's just *way way too passive* right now, and she can't really identify Zerg structures or Protoss structures ( and what they do ).
> 
> As for your spending and micro, just remember you've lost games vs Cram I believe because of that thought process of yours, games you should have easily won.


What games have you been watching?







I'm crazy passive in pretty much all of my games. I always wait for the first attack before I do anything. Of course, I might harass with banshees/mutas, but, for the most part, since, I find that Z is somewhat limited with harass, I'll rather wait, build up, defend then counter







As for her mechanics, since, I haven't seen her play, I can't comment.

I have my on and off days, kinda depends if I want to play a game or force myself







Like a couple of days back, PvsT on delta, I defended the first attack using a sentry and maybe 2-3 stalkers against mass marines until I got more zealots and was able to keep on defending successfully. Then I decide to attack his MMT group near the tower because I didn't want it to grow so big and with seige mode, it'll become nasty quite soon. I thought I had enough, boy was I wrong. My units never stood a chance and I lost.

As for those games with Cram, I only lost once and that was because I got my bane nest too late(droning too hard XD). I was able to take out some marines but too many for my banes, thus, I lost my base and eventually the game









I changed my control groups today because I thought I should get used to having the first couple for units just because I've gotten used to pressing 1 and 2 a lot, so, they'll be easier to manage(casting, moving, etc....). I started messing up my spawning larvae and making units from my hatcheries because I'll keep pressing 1 then look at my keyboard and click 5 sd XD


----------



## EmMure

bigfan games?


----------



## ThumperSD

Protoss players I have a question for you.

When going for a 6gate/+1 push vs Zerg, what time do you usually leave your base? And do you do fake pushes before your real push to force zerg to make lings/roaches? Im finding that when I go FE and probe up hard I wont have enough units for fake pushes before my push @ 10-11 mins.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11956923*
> 
> As for those games with Cram, I only lost once and that was because I got my bane nest too late(droning too hard XD). I was able to take out some marines but too many for my banes, thus, I lost my base and eventually the game


If you really believe that I feel sorry for you.







Ask anyone else who was watching, it had nothing to do with your baneling nest or droning too hard. You had larva sitting there doing nothing, tons of money, and no units as usual. This is what I'm talking about you don't even get what you're doing wrong







. Plus yes you would have held off his attacks if you didn't waste your banes as well.

I've never watched a game where you droned too hard EVER. If by drone too hard you mean make drones and just forget to make units with plenty of larva, money, and supply... then OK...


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11956963*
> Protoss players I have a question for you.
> 
> When going for a 6gate/+1 push vs Zerg, what time do you usually leave your base? And do you do fake pushes before your real push to force zerg to make lings/roaches? Im finding that when I go FE and probe up hard I wont have enough units for fake pushes before my push @ 10-11 mins.


It depends on your opening and when you get your expansion/forge.

I've seen Toss go Forge -> Expand against Hatch first. Grab their 6 gates and hit a +1/1 timing since they got their super forge early. But that's only cause of the early forge, most go 3gate expand to apply pressure.

But generally, you want to hit when you finish any forge upgrade while having your 6 gates up. So time your push right when +1 finishes, +2, or +1/1.

As for fake pushes, try to always poke around at all times though. You want to constantly clear any lings in front of your base / at the watch tower. So that when you do your real hit, they aren't aware of it til an OL spots it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11956963*
> Protoss players I have a question for you.
> 
> When going for a 6gate/+1 push vs Zerg, what time do you usually leave your base? And do you do fake pushes before your real push to force zerg to make lings/roaches? Im finding that when I go FE and probe up hard I wont have enough units for fake pushes before my push @ 10-11 mins.


What MC did vs Ret on day9 was as soon as +1 finished he moved out. I found this strat amazingly strong. However you have to start the +1 as soon as you start the 6th gateway. As soon as 6 gates are finished you should cut probes and start making units and move out. However during these times you need to be sac'ing probes to scout when their FE(s) are up, how much saturation at their bases, and what units are they going.

The only problem I had with this strat was if I was vs-ing good macro zergs, fast hydra tech, or roach busts. If they don't roach bust or go hydras I find that I would win 100% of the games. However if they go 2xfe when I forge fe, or have hydras when I do push out I can only win 50% of the time. This is why I decide if I will be going 4 gate 2 star, 5 gate robo or 6 gate +1 during the scout.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im talking about forge to FE. We have our expos up at approximately the same time. His may be slightly earlier. I try to make just enough units to survive but I still want my warp gates by 8min because of the risk of nydus. I prefer cannons since I'll have a lot of minerals.

I think I need to start my +1 upgrade and get my 6 gates up a little earlier if Im going forge to FE. Im finding myself having excess resources even when pushing at 10:30.


----------



## yks

A replay would help to see where we can strengthen the build, Thump.


----------



## DoomDash

You wanna see how stupid unbalanced ZvT is watch moon vs bitbybitprime game 2. Biggest error ever by Z and still rapes with 1A.


----------



## yks

its not 1A Doom, remember its just right click. half as much effort and more effective.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

In reference to the game 2 between moon and bitbybitprime:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Yeah, missing the marines with the buried banelings was painful to watch. I was really hoping for a large explosion







.

I think though the key for zerg was he was able to close most of the distance before the siege tanks sieged up. The zerg also seemed to have better macro. He droned pretty hard and got up a third base, resulting in a lot of lings and banelings.

Zerg probably should have lost game 3 though, big mistake for terran not to target the baneling eggs.


----------



## CramComplex

Home...phew...just in time for Code S games...anyone wanna play with a Silver Terran?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11957897*
> Home...phew...just in time for Code S games...anyone wanna play with a Silver Terran?


me. logging on ill play Z.


----------



## CramComplex

Until the code S GSL is live tho


----------



## CramComplex

i got steamrolled by Doom T____T


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11957056*
> If you really believe that I feel sorry for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask anyone else who was watching, it had nothing to do with your baneling nest or droning too hard. You had larva sitting there doing nothing, tons of money, and no units as usual. This is what I'm talking about you don't even get what you're doing wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Plus yes you would have held off his attacks if you didn't waste your banes as well.
> 
> I've never watched a game where you droned too hard EVER. If by drone too hard you mean make drones and just forget to make units with plenty of larva, money, and supply... then OK...


That's precisly what I meant by droning hard, as in I just keep on droning barely having enough defense to stop a push. It's a flaw in my gameplay, but, meh, it's starting to get patched XD

I do know I have larvae sitting around, tons of money, likely got supply blocked, so, I was waiting to get an OL before being able to make units. Most times I'll probably be scouting or looking at the map, so, I'll neglect the larvae









BTW, I think we are talking about CalmStorm and not Cram since, again, you never saw that game that I lost against him on LT. You're probably thinking of the meta one








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11957745*
> You wanna see how stupid unbalanced ZvT is watch moon vs bitbybitprime game 2. Biggest error ever by Z and still rapes with 1A.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11958280*


If the error you speak of is this, then it is a big error, but, I don't see why he would lose the game because of losing a couple of banes


----------



## DoomDash

It was like 6-7 banes and it was awful hah.

He still just 1Aed that army and it was gone in 1-2 seconds.


----------



## vdek

So baneling drops are ridiculous OP. I'm going to start using them a LOT more. I think roach/sling/bling with bling drops can be pretty deadly against the standard Terran Marine/Tank/Medivac combo.

Also, did you guys check out the SCRI? Games were EPIC and TotalBiscuit's casting made it like a soccer game, pretty sweet.

This was one of the best in the series:
http://www.justin.tv/screddit/b/277239309
KiwiKaki vs Morrow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11958414*
> It was like 6-7 banes and it was awful hah.
> 
> He still just 1Aed that army and it was gone in 1-2 seconds.


Yeah he had much better economy.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11958635*
> So baneling drops are ridiculous OP. I'm going to start using them a LOT more. I think roach/sling/bling with bling drops can be pretty deadly against the standard Terran Marine/Tank/Medivac combo.
> 
> Also, did you guys check out the SCRI? Games were EPIC and TotalBiscuit's casting made it like a soccer game, pretty sweet.
> 
> This was one of the best in the series:
> http://www.justin.tv/screddit/b/277239309
> KiwiKaki vs Morrow.
> 
> Yeah he had much better economy.


Much better? IDK about that. Better? Yeah sure.... especially when you consider that his army size was probably less value than the T's army and just rolled right over it. Terran was keeping up over all though, he took his 2nd fast, and he was muling. Either way I still say the only problem with the match up is only the fact that Terran has to have the most ideal positioning and intel at ALL times or they will just get wrecked. A map like jungle basin is a very hard map to safe push out on. I don't mind banes in theory but around the time he pushed out he has to play it like he's carrying a glass of full water that he can't spill a drop. For Zerg at that point in the game it's like carrying a glass that's half full. Even if you make a big blunder on positions for a second you can react and save most of your forces. With Terran you are just ****ed, and more importantly ****ed with an army that is harder and more expensive to replace.

Also think about if Moon would have did those banelings correct. Terran would lose his entire army because he didn't scan every inch of the map ( a long map too ). Does anyone else have anything remotely that good in this game? Now I do my best to figure out where the the Zerg army is at all times, and I even scan in front of me sometimes especially if I see burrow, but just think for a second of all the things I need to do to prepare for something as simple as moving out of my base, and how unsafe it is unless you play it damn near perfect.

I will be the first to admit that T has a bunch of advantages over Z early with 2 RAX FE, and more importantly how many tech options they have, but after that it becomes super lopsided. I used to play the try to throw Zerg off and surprise them with Hellions, banshees, cliffs, ect. But you soon realize a good Zerg is very prepared for all of that, and if he deals with it well you are so far behind its almost impossible to come back and win. That's why I gave up all that fancy Terran play and decided to work on FE / macro play so I can try my best to be on close to even ground.


----------



## vdek

Sensor towers will reveal any burrowed banelings. If it's such a problem, just throw down a sensor tower close to their base while you are pushing out. It's cheaper than a scan.

Zerg is kinda the same way, you have to constantly scout your opponent out. If you don't and drone too hard, you lose. If you drone too little, you lose again.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11958947*
> Sensor towers will reveal any burrowed banelings. If it's such a problem, just throw down a sensor tower close to their base while you are pushing out. It's cheaper than a scan.
> 
> Zerg is kinda the same way, you have to constantly scout your opponent out. If you don't and drone too hard, you lose. If you drone too little, you lose again.


But Zerg has map control at that point in the game easily with muta/sling/bane. That's really not an issue at all at least against T. It's different in different match ups though.

Sensor Towers are good, but at that point might as well wait for a Raven.


----------



## Mwarren

I agree completely with DoomDash, with TvZ the burden is put heavily on the Terran to heavily harass the zerg and not make any mistakes. Moving out with siege tanks and marines is akin to walking up a flight of stairs with a cup of hot coffee filled right below the lid. One small mistake and you have hot coffee or exploding banelings on your hand that will wreck you. PvZ seems a lot more fair as P has that giant deathball to build up to while Terran isn't capable of producing an army as strong as protoss's.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPgv0kJLCxY&feature=sub[/ame]


----------



## rhed5

I haven't seen the game but maybe Moon is just a better player than BitByBit? If you can't beat zerg on jungle basin, you don't deserve to advance. As for doom, going 2 rax FE because good zergs are prepared for all the gimmicky plays, it doesn't work like that. It's very tough for zerg to prepare for all those things, and if they do, it's at a cost, whether that's through going early baneling nest to counter 3-4 rax, early roach to counter helions, or gambling by going muta. The game is an information based game, and as soon as you have any intel, you try to capitalize based on that intel.

It's too easy crying zvt is imbalanced when you haven't reached your skill cap.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure Moon is a better player, but I still look at what happened and based on that game and both econs I don't think Moon deserved to have such an easy win in that battle. That's my problem with it. I didn't say the Terran deserved to win, I was more less pointing out that the Terran's army shouldn't just disappear in a single second.

I can only speak from my experience on balance issues, but even if I don't have TvZ down anywhere near to where I will have it down, it still feels more broken than anything thing I've felt in 12 years of playing SC. Won't stop me from practicing the **** out of it. I really want to smash Zergs into the ground.

Protoss players I don't care about. TvT I can fully admit I'm just garbage at. I just know most people feel the same way about Z right now, and if we don't at least discuss balance then it may just go ignored. Z players *****ed up and down to get where they are at right now.


----------



## rhed5

12 years of SC and this? Come on , you can do better than that. Remember when pool was 150? Pre 1.07 terran was pretty terrible. How about in SC1 (not brood war), when there were no counters to mutas? The game has seen much worse. I don't think ZvT is unbalanced at all, esp considering all the terrible maps.


----------



## qcarmstrong

anyone have a good strat against p v z, against good micro 6 pool cheesers?


----------



## DoomDash

Well we can agree to disagree. I think its pretty badly balanced right now. I also don't share your thoughts on P > Z. I think it's the opposite, but that I can't really speak on from experience, only observing.

As for the old patches, I never had a problem with any of these issues that people considered huge problems, besides when storm did 125 damage or something. I'm sure at first I was pretty awful and just ignorant to how the game even remotely worked, especially in SC1 days. I played random in SC1 and I never for a second thought a match up was imba. I've been playing since the game came out, on kali, in x17, ect ect.







. Though I did quit for the most part a little after 1.08.

Also, the match up may not be imbalanced, but more unbalanced. Jinro has talked about this on TL in both TvP and TvZ.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qcarmstrong;11959739*
> anyone have a good strat against p v z, against good micro 6 pool cheesers?


Id say scout early (right after you drop the first pylon). Also, always build your pylon close to your ramp so you can wall in.

If you see an early pool, you have two options:

1. Wall in with forge and a gate + cannon if there is a gap, then make a cannon right after the gate finishes. This is probably the safest and easiest to execute.

2. chrono boost a lot of probes out hard and Try to kill the lings with your propes. (this can work great if you micro the probes (moove the damaged ones back to gather and back etc..)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11958414*
> It was like 6-7 banes and it was awful hah.
> 
> He still just 1Aed that army and it was gone in 1-2 seconds.


Depending on what moon's army was. Don't forget marines are hard countered by banes and tanks by slings. Btw, haven't seen game yet, just an assumption








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11958635*
> So baneling drops are ridiculous OP. I'm going to start using them a LOT more. I think *roach/sling/bling with bling drops can be pretty deadly against the standard Terran Marine/Tank/Medivac combo.*
> 
> Also, did you guys check out the SCRI? Games were EPIC and TotalBiscuit's casting made it like a soccer game, pretty sweet.
> 
> This was one of the best in the series:
> http://www.justin.tv/screddit/b/277239309
> KiwiKaki vs Morrow.
> 
> Yeah he had much better economy.


? I thought it was well establised that slings+blings with some roaches are a great counter to a MMT combo. Of course, you'll have to catch them before they siege but that's where bane drops come in if you can't








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11958841*
> Much better? IDK about that. Better? Yeah sure.... especially when you consider that his army size was probably less value than the T's army and just rolled right over it. Terran was keeping up over all though, he took his 2nd fast, and he was muling. Either way I still say the only problem with the match up is only the fact that Terran has to have the most ideal positioning and intel at ALL times or they will just get wrecked. A map like jungle basin is a very hard map to safe push out on. I don't mind banes in theory but around the time he pushed out he has to play it like he's carrying a glass of full water that he can't spill a drop. For Zerg at that point in the game it's like carrying a glass that's half full. Even if you make a big blunder on positions for a second you can react and save most of your forces. With Terran you are just ****ed, and more importantly ****ed with an army that is harder and more expensive to replace.
> *This whole game is based on intel. It's the whole purpose of scouting so that you can prepare for an attack and get a good unit composition.*
> 
> Also think about if Moon would have did those banelings correct. Terran would lose his entire army because he didn't scan every inch of the map ( a long map too ). Does anyone else have anything remotely that good in this game? Now I do my best to figure out where the the Zerg army is at all times, and I even scan in front of me sometimes especially if I see burrow, but just think for a second of all the things I need to do to prepare for something as simple as moving out of my base, and how unsafe it is unless you play it damn near perfect.
> *If you plan to scan infront of you, etc.... why not just grab a raven? It's better than wasting energy that could've went towards a muling and will give you ppd, turrets as well as detection. While I've admitted that I tend to throw my army at my opponent, in more cases than not, especially in the early game, I'll be microing it and I've lost games to MMM even when I had the right unit composition. My point is, Z as much as T and P has to play as damn near perfect as possible in some games. Example, teching too late to get AA or forgetting to place a spore could be a GG if your opponent banshee harass.*
> 
> I will be the first to admit that T has a bunch of advantages over Z early with 2 RAX FE, and more importantly how many tech options they have, but after that it becomes super lopsided. I used to play the try to throw Zerg off and surprise them with Hellions, banshees, cliffs, ect. But you soon realize a good Zerg is very prepared for all of that, and if he deals with it well you are so far behind its almost impossible to come back and win. That's why I gave up all that fancy Terran play and decided to work on FE / macro play so I can try my best to be on close to even ground.


There is too much to deal with there though. I guess my point is since Z is
a macro race, most will be droning hard at the start, so, there's a window there. What it really comes to down to is harass the Z early, keep on harassing and make one final big push to take the game. As fast as Z can replenish their army, a strong MMM push can really help MM. I'm gonna say it now: You need to start using medivacs if you haven't. I think your holding yourself back by not using them because they'll keep your MM alive for much longer and are needed if you stim. Curious, what do you do when you stim? Reason I ask is because if you don't use medivacs, your MM health will obviously be lower now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11958947*
> Sensor towers will reveal any burrowed banelings. If it's such a problem, just throw down a sensor tower close to their base while you are pushing out. It's cheaper than a scan.
> 
> Zerg is kinda the same way, you have to constantly scout your opponent out. If you don't and drone too hard, you lose. If you drone too little, you lose again.


Sensor towers are like a maphack. If I find I have extra resources(do I ever XD), I'll build at least one in my base and in any other areas that I occupy. They reveal a lot in terms of positioning. Really, I think once T start using towers much more, the game will change maybe even leading to Blizzard nerfing them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11959358*
> I'm sure Moon is a better player, but I still look at what happened and based on that game and both econs I don't think Moon deserved to have such an easy win in that battle. That's my problem with it. I didn't say the Terran deserved to win, I was more less pointing out that the Terran's army shouldn't just disappear in a single second.
> 
> I can only speak from my experience on balance issues, but even if I don't have TvZ down anywhere near to where I will have it down, it still feels more broken than anything thing I've felt in 12 years of playing SC. Won't stop me from practicing the **** out of it. I really want to smash Zergs into the ground.
> 
> Protoss players I don't care about. *TvT I can fully admit I'm just garbage at.* I just know most people feel the same way about Z right now, and if we don't at least discuss balance then it may just go ignored. Z players *****ed up and down to get where they are at right now.


What do that tell us about your gameplay? XD

Yes, Zs had it tough before the roach buff, but, because, they had to work at it, life is much easier. On the other hand, Ts had it easier, so, mostly used to 1A MMM, now some are struggling. I think rhed5 is correct. In SC, zlings were stronger, marines were weaker and in general, Z/P was stronger than T, so, you can't exactly say its horrible now. Just add medivacs into your game and you'll find life is much easier


----------



## DoomDash

Medivacs won't solve the problem. I am using them now.

What does what tell us about my game plan?

I only stim when engaged in an important big battle really.

Sensor Towers are sick good, but nerfing them? Probably not since Terran units are slow as ****.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Medivacs won't solve the problem. I am using them now.

What does what tell us about my game plan?

I only stim when engaged in an important big battle really.

Sensor Towers are sick good, but nerfing them? Probably not since Terran units are slow as ****.


They won't solve it but they'll make your MM that much stronger.

It was supposed to be a joke since you previously mentioned that TvsT is a technical or whatever you called it match









What about muta harass? Do you place marines around your base? Turrets around? Without stim, they can easily get some kills and run off, main reason I ask. As for sensor team, likely not, but, I do agree with crazy sick, likely will see more usage in the near future


----------



## DoomDash

Muta's don't really bother me that much. Maybe it's because my build focuses around double ebay infantry upgrades. I have lost because of Muta's picking off tanks and such a few times but that's something I feel is realistic for me to prevent.

I have a 2900 Terran friend who hates Muta's with a passion and thinks they are super imba vs Terran, but I actually disagree with him completely.

My TvT is bad because I refuse to play it standard and never practice it. Something I plan on changing.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Muta's don't really bother me that much. Maybe it's because my build focuses around double ebay infantry upgrades. I have lost because of Muta's picking off tanks and such a few times but that's something I feel is realistic for me to prevent.

I have a 2900 Terran friend who hates Muta's with a passion and thinks they are super imba vs Terran, but I actually disagree with him completely.

My TvT is bad because I refuse to play it standard and never practice it. Something I plan on changing.


Yo, wanna practice with me? I win 90%~ of my TvTs


----------



## DoomDash

Sure. What league?


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11960107*
> Sure. What league?


I was 2300 a month and a half ago, went a month long vacation, so I'm getting back into it (currently 2200 because of losses), I'd say we're probably right on par with each other.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11960064*
> Muta's don't really bother me that much. Maybe it's because my build focuses around double ebay infantry upgrades. I have lost because of Muta's picking off tanks and such a few times but that's something I feel is realistic for me to prevent.
> 
> I have a 2900 Terran friend who hates Muta's with a passion and thinks they are super imba vs Terran, but I actually disagree with him completely.
> 
> My TvT is bad because *I refuse to play it standard* and never practice it. Something I plan on changing.


Well, at least we have something in common XD As for mutas, well, that makes sense, double eng bay upgrades help a lot against mutas


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SilverPotato*


I was 2300 a month and a half ago, went a month long vacation, so I'm getting back into it (currently 2200 because of losses), I'd say we're probably right on par with each other.


Sure give me your SN / Code.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sure give me your SN / Code.










PM sent


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I haven't seen the game but maybe Moon is just a better player than BitByBit? If you can't beat zerg on jungle basin, you don't deserve to advance. As for doom, going 2 rax FE because good zergs are prepared for all the gimmicky plays, it doesn't work like that. It's very tough for zerg to prepare for all those things, and if they do, it's at a cost, whether that's through going early baneling nest to counter 3-4 rax, early roach to counter helions, or gambling by going muta. The game is an information based game, and as soon as you have any intel, you try to capitalize based on that intel.

It's too easy crying zvt is imbalanced when you haven't reached your skill cap.


The problem is that it is actually quite easy for zerg to prepare for the things that a terran player can throw at him, especially against terran. Standard TvZ play is banelings/speedlings/roaches and mutas with infestors in the late game unless they want to go T3. Banelings counter early marine pushes, roaches counter any type of hellion play, mutas counter banshee play, thors are easily taken out by speedlings and thors are very immobile.

Siege tanks + marines is really the most viable option that I can see right now and even that is hard to pull off. So the problem is that zergs natural tech path counters anything a terran can try to pull out of his hat unless the zerg is caught way off guard early on.


----------



## BigFan

[rant]
What's up with battle.net these days. Just had a disconnect in a game that I was favoured in







Sad part is, I haven't even finished building my depot. Wonder if I'm going to get depromoted if this keeps happening XD

[/rant]


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11960791*
> [rant]
> What's up with battle.net these days. Just had a disconnect in a game that I was favoured in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sad part is, I haven't even finished building my depot. Wonder if I'm going to get depromoted if this keeps happening XD
> 
> [/rant]


You sure it's battle.net?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11961002*
> You sure it's battle.net?


no clue









Wow, just wow, just had a TvsP on LT. Won the game but I was BM'd to hell and back for nuking him. I have to upload this because words can't describe it XD

Edit: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/126644-1v1-terran-protoss-lost-temple
I do have to say my macro was on the better side early on but getting that 3rd rax a bit late could've been a bad idea, thank god for ghosts







Thinking of starting to use them more against P against immortals and so on







Should make it clearer I was going for some medivacs and vikings for scouting+colossi(in anticipation) thus the 2 starports









BTW, ^^you have to understand that I don't hate battle.net. I'm on a tilt atm and losing a couple more games could get me depromoted, so, getting a loss from an early disconnect just ain't right. In SC1, I believe leaving in the first 2-3mins or so was counted as a disconnect. As I recall, no points were lost.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


The problem is that it is actually quite easy for zerg to prepare for the things that a terran player can throw at him, especially against terran. Standard TvZ play is banelings/speedlings/roaches and mutas with infestors in the late game unless they want to go T3. Banelings counter early marine pushes, roaches counter any type of hellion play, mutas counter banshee play, thors are easily taken out by speedlings and thors are very immobile.

Siege tanks + marines is really the most viable option that I can see right now and even that is hard to pull off. So the problem is that zergs natural tech path counters anything a terran can try to pull out of his hat unless the zerg is caught way off guard early on.


Sorry, but this is stupid. This is like saying tanks counter banelings, marines counter marines, marauders counter roaches. Every unit pretty much has a counter. How is it easy for zerg to prepare for what terran is going to throw at them, but not the other way around? Seriously, tell me what you think makes it unbalanced.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Sorry, but this is stupid. This is like saying tanks counter banelings, marines counter marines, marauders counter roaches. Every unit pretty much has a counter. How is it easy for zerg to prepare for what terran is going to throw at them, but not the other way around? Seriously, tell me what you think makes it unbalanced.


My guess is that he'll say that we can make units rather quickly and aren't limited to a specific structures(marines only from rax)


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Sorry, but this is stupid. This is like saying tanks counter banelings, marines counter marines, marauders counter roaches. Every unit pretty much has a counter. How is it easy for zerg to prepare for what terran is going to throw at them, but not the other way around? Seriously, tell me what you think makes it unbalanced.


It's not stupid, you don't understand what I tried to explain to you in my previous post. Zergs NATURAL tech path automatically counters anything that a Terran player might go for that strays away from standard play, BigFan is right zergs aren't limited by structures like toss and terran but not being limited to making 1 unit at a time is only a part of the equation.

If you play a TvP and you go dual starport with tech labs and produce banshees and marines theres still a good chance that you wont lose even if your push fails. However, if you try something with even the slightest risk (or even less riskier standard play) in TvZ, such as a banshee push, and it fails on the first push you can kiss your ass and the game goodbye because its just too hard to come back against a droning zerg that can handle your pushes. I never said that TvZ was IMBA either, in my opinion its pretty balanced. Terran just has to stay aggressive and harass/keep the zerg on his toes.


----------



## nlsthzn

Today's GSL was AWESOME... but the next (and last round of 32) is going to be epic... let us see how well foreigners play this game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


It's not stupid, you don't understand what I tried to explain to you in my previous post. Zergs NATURAL tech path automatically counters anything that a Terran player might go for that strays away from standard play, BigFan is right zergs aren't limited by structures like toss and terran but not being limited to making 1 unit at a time is only a part of the equation.

If you play a TvP and you go dual starport with tech labs and produce banshees and marines theres still a good chance that you wont lose even if your push fails. However, if you try something with even the slightest risk (or even less riskier standard play) in TvZ, such as a banshee push, and it fails on the first push you can kiss your ass and the game goodbye because its just too hard to come back against a droning zerg that can handle your pushes. I never said that TvZ was IMBA either, in my opinion its pretty balanced. Terran just has to stay aggressive and harass/keep the zerg on his toes.


We aren't limited but at the same time, hatcheries are the main producing structure. If you are able to take out a Z's hatcheries via a large drop then you have stopped him completely from making units. Basically, a Zs advantage is also a disadvantage. BTW, he plays random so he must've encountered some of this when he gets T/PvsZ at the diamond level


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


We aren't limited but at the same time, hatcheries are the main producing structure. If you are able to take out a Z's hatcheries via a large drop then you have stopped him completely from making units. Basically, a Zs advantage is also a disadvantage. BTW, he plays random so he must've encountered some of this when he gets T/PvsZ at the diamond level










How does having larva at the hatchery make it a disadvantage? Taking out a hatch with even a few drops is going to be very tough and very risky, it would be better to take out drones/queens or possibly a tech building. Thats like a player doing drops TvP and going straight for the Nexus, its way too risky. By the time that its down to half hp he will flank you and take you out most likely.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


It's not stupid, you don't understand what I tried to explain to you in my previous post. Zergs NATURAL tech path automatically counters anything that a Terran player might go for that strays away from standard play, BigFan is right zergs aren't limited by structures like toss and terran but not being limited to making 1 unit at a time is only a part of the equation.

If you play a TvP and you go dual starport with tech labs and produce banshees and marines theres still a good chance that you wont lose even if your push fails. However, if you try something with even the slightest risk (or even less riskier standard play) in TvZ, such as a banshee push, and it fails on the first push you can kiss your ass and the game goodbye because its just too hard to come back against a droning zerg that can handle your pushes. I never said that TvZ was IMBA either, in my opinion its pretty balanced. Terran just has to stay aggressive and harass/keep the zerg on his toes.


OK, so you aren't saying it isn't imbalanced, yet all your arguments suggest otherwise. Again, think about this; you say zerg's natural tech path automatically counters everything terran does, but terrans' natural tech path doesn't? Am i getting this right?

I also don't get how a failed TvP banshee raven push can still keep you in the game, but a failed banshee push(by the way who goes for a banshee push in TvZ? banshee drone/queen kiting but not banshee push) TvZ the game is over? This is so wrong I won't comment further.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I also don't get how a failed TvP banshee raven push can still keep you in the game, but a failed banshee push(by the way who goes for a banshee push in TvZ? banshee drone/queen kiting but not banshee push) TvZ the game is over? This is so wrong I won't comment further.


It works if you get the zerg off guard and they don't scout properly









You did it to Doom in one game and utterly wrecked him, 34+ kills between two banshees if I remember correctly. You also did it to me in one game but didn't get nearly as many kills, it was still devastating to my economy though.

Really though, Terran can come back economy wise via mules. Mules are ridiculously good, I wouldn't call them imbalanced since they are necessary, but they are good. Zerg actually has to drone very hard just to keep up with Mules/Chronoboosted probes IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes : Chrono = Mule = Ability to make multiple drones.


----------



## Mwarren

I can see where you got the idea that I think TvZ is imbalanced from but it isnt imba imo because it just requires a different style of play to win TvZ. This has nothing to do with Terrans tech path countering anything which by the way, terrans natural tech path doesnt counter zergs. What air unit counters mutas? Thors definitly dont counter mutas. Most terrans dont even go for air TvZ so the tech path normally ends at siege tanks or thors for most players. Even then its still pretty damn even when it comes down to siege tanks/thors/marines vs speedlings/banelings/mutas.

The real problem is that if the terran player doesn't do significant damage with his first big push than he's going to have a crap load of trouble coming back while if the zerg player makes a mistake or doesn't wipe out the terrans first big push he can still come back, his ability to come back in the game and win is significantly higher the more bases that hes on just due to the whole larva aspect of zerg. Now if you look at TvP or even TvT, even if you didn't do significant damage with your pushes there's still a good chance that you can still win the game. The problem is that trying to out macro a zerg is fighting an uphill battle because zerg has the best macro (droning) mechanic in the game. This is why in TvZ the terran player either has to have godlike macro or be putting constant pressure on the zerg and not letting him get those expansions down.

The reason why I said that its so risky to try anything out of the ordinary TvZ is that zergs natural tech path can handle pretty much anything that you toss at them that would be out of the ordinary such as banshess and rines, or early blue flame hellion drops. It's risky to try anything non standard TvZ because if your harrass or push fails than you're going to be much further behind due to the whole larva aspect of zerg and the gas that you could of spent on the banshees or other out of the ordinary tech could of been spent on upgrades for your standard units.


----------



## rhed5

Why do you need air units to counter mutas? You can't have apples for apples and oranges for oranges for each race. I agree with you that terran needs to do damage in his first push, but this only because of the volatility in the MU caused mainly by banelings. If zerg can't stop you there, the game is over, so it goes both ways. I am not going to add anymore because I don''t think there's a point, but I am up for games if you guys wish


----------



## thiru

What are those essential videos to watch for newbs again?
Apart from Day9's Newbie Tuesday #1.


----------



## DoomDash

132 is his best episode IMO. It's called back to the basics.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


132 is his best episode IMO. It's called back to the basics.


Thanks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


How does having larva at the hatchery make it a disadvantage? Taking out a hatch with even a few drops is going to be very tough and very risky, it would be better to take out drones/queens or possibly a tech building. Thats like a player doing drops TvP and going straight for the Nexus, its way too risky. By the time that its down to half hp he will flank you and take you out most likely.


That's not my main point though. My point is that while we can make as many of said unit as there are larvae provided we have the structure and resources, it means that if the opponent snipes a specific structure or is somehow able to take down the hatchery, Z is unable to make said unit or any units at all until they rebuild the hatchery. It's both an advantage(many said unit) and a disadvantage(lose production completely). This also doesn't take into account worker/army ratio and how an opponent can exploit that to their advantage.
It's like if you have one rax and I take it out, guess what, no more marines/marauders/ghosts, etc.... until you get another up. As T/P, you built several rax/gateways, etc.... so even if I was to take one of those out, you can still build the units from the other ones. Of course, you'll have to consider cc, dark templar shrine, armory, tech labs, etc.... but most go for pylons/supply depots or rax/WGs first


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks.


This is the episode BigFan should watch more than any. In fact I'd say its good for everyone ever. Even talks about why APM isn't that important, and what really is important.


----------



## Nevaziah

I have never gone over 75 rpm on average per game ever since I started.
Of course it does spike, but thats about it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

By RPM you mean APM?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This is the episode BigFan should watch more than any. In fact I'd say its good for everyone ever. Even talks about why APM isn't that important, and what really is important.


Yeah I like that ep as well. It's something I keep forgetting at times. I always get food blocked right before the critical juncture sometimes.

Chronoboost does not equal mules. Terran macro and other macro are a bit different that you can't say they equal.


----------



## CramComplex

LOL another 10 pages of replies to read since my last visit...too damn educational...

@BigFan: O_Oa that game was like last year I haven't improved since then LOL

@DoomDash / yks: I'll be working on my basics but after a long gap in playing games I'm pretty much back to where I started from...all I can do from the basics is keep my money low... problem is when I am in a battle it spikes up VERY VERY high plus my SCV count is sometimes off the chart that I have fewer attacking units and 60% to 70% are SCVs. And that Thor drop...I really should have transitioned to marauders.

@yks: man your coaching is the best!

@everyone else: welcome to the thread~ (~^_^)~ SC2 Thread ~(^_^~)


----------



## ThumperSD

If your money gets high during a battle, spend it as soon as you can take your attention away. Such as when you retreat, spend your money immediately.


----------



## Allenssmart

omg is it true u can unpause somebody if they paused? cause i paused and told the guy i'd brb and i went and took a piss and came back a minute later and it was UNPAUSED AND I WAS BEING ATTACKED!!!!!!!!!


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11963519*
> Chronoboost does not equal mules. Terran macro and other macro are a bit different that you can't say they equal.


In the grand scheme of balance, yes it does.


----------



## thiru

This has funny suggestions:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627973499


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;11961064*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11960583*
> The problem is that it is actually quite easy for zerg to prepare for the things that a terran player can throw at him, especially against terran. Standard TvZ play is banelings/speedlings/roaches and mutas with infestors in the late game unless they want to go T3. Banelings counter early marine pushes, roaches counter any type of hellion play, mutas counter banshee play, thors are easily taken out by speedlings and thors are very immobile.
> 
> Siege tanks + marines is really the most viable option that I can see right now and even that is hard to pull off. So the problem is that zergs natural tech path counters anything a terran can try to pull out of his hat unless the zerg is caught way off guard early on.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but this is stupid. This is like saying tanks counter banelings, marines counter marines, marauders counter roaches. Every unit pretty much has a counter. How is it easy for zerg to prepare for what terran is going to throw at them, but not the other way around? Seriously, tell me what you think makes it unbalanced.
Click to expand...

This is what I was trying to tell BigFan in that, it's not about counters!

Then again, I'm late to the discussion.


----------



## thiru

Patch 1.2 is out in SEA:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183337


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11963667*
> @DoomDash / yks: I'll be working on my basics but after a long gap in playing games I'm pretty much back to where I started from...all I can do from the basics is keep my money low... problem is when I am in a battle it spikes up VERY VERY high plus my SCV count is sometimes off the chart that I have fewer attacking units and 60% to 70% are SCVs. And that Thor drop...I really should have transitioned to marauders.
> 
> @yks: man your coaching is the best!


You pretty much know what to do, you just got to remember to do it. Then once you remember what to do, you gotta do it _faster_.

But that "Thor drop... I really should have got marauders" you're not at that train of thought yet. That's *BigFan* thinking and that's *wrong* for right now, at least.

Just concentrate on your macro for now. Doom was @ ~150 food when you were touching ~70

Also, you might want to reconsider easier keybinds. 0 for CC is cool, a lot of old school BW players still do that. But 9 for your Rax/Factory makes it really hard during battle to macro. Pressing 1 to fight then 9 to make stuff is a reallll stetch.

I'm down to coach anyone at anytime, just bring your own practice partner and make sure he's okay with it.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11964310*
> You pretty much know what to do, you just got to remember to do it. Then once you remember what to do, you gotta do it _faster_.
> 
> But that "Thor drop... I really should have got marauders" you're not at that train of thought yet. That's *BigFan* thinking and that's *wrong* for right now, at least.
> 
> Just concentrate on your macro for now. Doom was @ ~150 food when you were touching ~70
> 
> Also, you might want to reconsider easier keybinds. 0 for CC is cool, a lot of old school BW players still do that. But 9 for your Rax/Factory makes it really hard during battle to macro. Pressing 1 to fight then 9 to make stuff is a reallll stetch.
> 
> I'm down to coach anytime, just bring your own practice partner and make sure he's okay with it.


Oh snap! Now if only I could find a practice partner who won't mind...

[Edit]
I guess while waiting for the games when I get home...I'll practice key-binding to shorter routes then...second is "probes & pylons"...that is...I have my train of thought for now...thanks







Now off to my day job.


----------



## Allenssmart

OMG. observers are already op as crap and they're still gonna reduce the cost? is blizzard high? hallucination research time decreased(op), phoenix build time decreased (op), void ray damage against massive units increased (mental ******ation on blizzards part), scvs with same threat priority as repairing. (aka no more thor rushes)

this is basically a sign from blizzard that says screw you terran the already op protoss is now more op. enough is enough. i'm switching to protoss. i'm not taking this anymore.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11964488*
> OMG. observers are already op as crap and they're still gonna reduce the cost? is blizzard high? hallucination research time decreased(op), phoenix build time decreased (op), void ray damage against massive units increased (mental ******ation on blizzards part), scvs with same threat priority as repairing. (aka no more thor rushes)
> 
> this is basically a sign from blizzard that says screw you terran the already op protoss is now more op. enough is enough. i'm switching to protoss. i'm not taking this anymore.


rofl


----------



## EmMure

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11964488*
> OMG. observers are already op as crap and they're still gonna reduce the cost? is blizzard high? hallucination research time decreased(op), phoenix build time decreased (op), void ray damage against massive units increased (mental ******ation on blizzards part), scvs with same threat priority as repairing. (aka no more thor rushes)
> 
> this is basically a sign from blizzard that says screw you terran the already op protoss is now more op. enough is enough. i'm switching to protoss. i'm not taking this anymore.


u have no idea what ur talking about now go sit in the corner


----------



## yks

obvious troll is obvious.


----------



## Mwarren

Just had a crazy TvZ. First push did some damage but nothing crazy. Ended up with every base being taken by the end of the game. Plenty of army trading.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/126790-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war


----------



## CramComplex

Just finished BigFan's replay...LOL...there was a RED DOT but the problem was that his colour was RED...what a #[email protected]%^#%@#$% lol...


----------



## poroboszcz

http://sea.launcher.battle.net/patchnotes/?product=S2&locale=en-en

No surprises. I'm happy to see protoss received a well deserved buff.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11932420*
> 
> 
> .


Lol, that guy messed up so bad with his marines when you dropped. gg


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11964310*
> 0 for CC is cool, a lot of old school BW players still do that.


Actually I think only Protoss BW players do that since the P is directly underneath the 0.

I like to stick to 1-5. I use 0 for my observer though I forget sometimes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11964488*
> OMG. observers are already op as crap and they're still gonna reduce the cost? is blizzard high? hallucination research time decreased(op), phoenix build time decreased (op), void ray damage against massive units increased (mental ******ation on blizzards part), scvs with same threat priority as repairing. (aka no more thor rushes)
> 
> this is basically a sign from blizzard that says screw you terran the already op protoss is now more op. enough is enough. i'm switching to protoss. i'm not taking this anymore.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11962598*
> This is the episode BigFan should watch more than any. In fact I'd say its good for everyone ever. Even talks about why APM isn't that important, and what really is important.


Well, my APM has been consistent at around 75 or so. I did get a new high of 118 or so in a ZvsT game I had, but, meh, 118 is low, I want 200+








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11963790*
> If your money gets high during a battle, spend it as soon as you can take your attention away. Such as when you retreat, spend your money immediately.


I think that's when my money starts spiking, whenever I decide to move out and as a result, I stop unit production which I shouldn't :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11963860*
> omg is it true u can unpause somebody if they paused? cause i paused and told the guy i'd brb and i went and took a piss and came back a minute later and it was UNPAUSED AND I WAS BEING ATTACKED!!!!!!!!!


yes, it's true. There are some people who will pause before they quit for the purpose of annoying you. That game I posted, he paused the game because he was pretty much finished and after trying to talk to him with no response, I unpaused and he left. Don't pause a game unless you are confident that your opponent will allow it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11964259*
> Patch 1.2 is out in SEA:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183337


Interesting, wonder when NA and EU will get it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11964310*
> You pretty much know what to do, you just got to remember to do it. Then once you remember what to do, you gotta do it _faster_.
> 
> But that "Thor drop... I really should have got marauders" you're not at that train of thought yet. That's *BigFan* thinking and that's *wrong* for right now, at least.
> 
> Just concentrate on your macro for now. *Doom was @ ~150 food when you were touching ~70*
> 
> Also, you might want to reconsider easier keybinds. 0 for CC is cool, a lot of old school BW players still do that. But 9 for your Rax/Factory makes it really hard during battle to macro. Pressing 1 to fight then 9 to make stuff is a reallll stetch.
> 
> I'm down to coach anyone at anytime, just bring your own practice partner and make sure he's okay with it.


There is nothing wrong with knowing about counters as long as you also concentrate on your macro so that the above scenario doesn't happen. Once I start to remember to keep making units even as a fight is going on, my money spending issues will decrease and will further decrease once I constantly upgrade








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11964488*
> OMG. observers are already op as crap and they're still gonna reduce the cost? is blizzard high? hallucination research time decreased(op), phoenix build time decreased (op), void ray damage against massive units increased (mental ******ation on blizzards part), scvs with same threat priority as repairing. (aka no more thor rushes)
> 
> this is basically a sign from blizzard that says screw you terran the already op protoss is now more op. enough is enough. i'm switching to protoss. i'm not taking this anymore.


XD
Hallucination doesn't hurt you in anyway, phoenixes aren't used in the TvsP games that I've had. VRs needed that massive damage so that they are more useful against BLs and ultras in the late game, although, I personally believe that P's late game can be on par if not stronger than Zs provided the P player has kept on equal footing with his Z opponent








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11964544*
> u have no idea what ur talking about now go sit in the corner


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11964611*
> obvious troll is obvious.


Guys, relax, since, he's new, it's kinda obvious to see why he'll find all these changes intimidating. I used to think MMM was hard to stop because I didn't make enough units then I discovered this magical unit called a baneling and the rest was history. ATM, ZvsT is my best matchup by a long shot. ZvsP is decent enough and ZvsZ is from another planet XD As for T/PvsX, not enough games played to determine those








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11964733*
> Just finished BigFan's replay...LOL...there was a RED DOT but the problem was that his colour was RED...what a #[email protected]%^#%@#$% lol...


lol, didn't actually notice that, shows how much I pay attention to the gfx XD I was 100% confident that he'll move the army back or at least use an observer to kill my ghost which is why I was flabbergasted when he didn't and he lost all his units. At that point, I took advantage, unloaded all my bunkers and went in for the easy kill









He made 2 big mistakes. Engaging my army on the ramp, so, I was able to EMP his immortals and take those out which in turn kept my marauders alive. The second big mistake he made is even if he couldn't see the red dot, there are only so many places I would want to target with nukes, such as his minerals lines or his army. All he had to do was move them away and then put them back after nuke which is more worth it than losing them







Glad someone enjoyed it







If you're interested, I can upload a ZvsT I had on meta last night(or night before I think). I would say my best Z game to date(macro-wise) but of course, spending needs to be worked on


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11966122*
> There is nothing wrong with knowing about counters as long as you also concentrate on your macro so that the above scenario doesn't happen. Once I start to remember to keep making units even as a fight is going on, my money spending issues will decrease and will further decrease once I constantly upgrade


I'm not saying knowing counters are wrong. I'm saying... nevermind.


----------



## EmMure

bigfan games?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11966122*
> I would say my best Z game to date(macro-wise) but of course, spending needs to be worked on


Lol, you can't have a good macro and poor spending. Poor spending = poor macro.


----------



## EmMure

u can acutally he can just suck at staying on top of spending


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;11966122*
> I think that's when my money starts spiking, whenever I decide to move out and as a result, I stop unit production which I shouldn't :/


What I try to do is macro up right before I push. This includes making probes, throwing up expo, transferring probes, chrono boosting upgrades, make pylons, buildings etc.

You typically dont want to take your attention away from the battle while you are attacking unless you know that there is no threat of losing your army. The last thing you want to do is to lose your entire army while your attention is away from the battle. Once you are done attacking, immediately spend your money depending on what you see.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11966477*
> u can acutally he can just suck at staying on top of spending


how do you have good macro but horrible spending? please answer.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966539*
> What I try to do is macro up right before I push. This includes making probes, throwing up expo, transferring probes, chrono boosting upgrades, make pylons, buildings etc.
> 
> You typically dont want to take your attention away from the battle while you are attacking unless you know that there is no threat of losing your army. The last thing you want to do is to lose your entire army while your attention is away from the battle. Once you are done attacking, immediately spend your money depending on what you see.


You typically don't want to take your attention away from your macro unless you really have to and there's a serious threat of losing an army. The last thing you want to do is to let your macro slip while your attention is at the battle which outcome you're not going to change anyway just by watching it. Once you're done spending your money immediately switch to your army to see how it's doing.


----------



## ThumperSD

So I have 2 accounts and am deciding which one I want to ladder with Protoss after the reset. My MMR on both accounts has me facing opponents roughly the same skill. Should I stick to the account with more points? Or would it not matter?


----------



## yks

The reset isn't happening any time soon.

The patch will be released without a reset.


----------



## vdek

It shouldn't really matter. Just use one as a smurf IMO


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11966683*
> You typically don't want to take your attention away from your macro unless you really have to and there's a serious threat of losing an army. The last thing you want to do is to let your macro slip while your attention is at the battle which outcome you're not going to change anyway just by watching it. Once you're done spending your money immediately switch to your army to see how it's doing.


Ive tried that before a lost a good chunk of my army lol. I like to pay attention to my army when attacking and macro where I can just queue up something with hotkeys. Only time I really take my attention away from something is if I need a key upgrade done ASAP (chrono boost) or if Im reinforcing units at a pylon. Missing key force fields is really really crucial sometimes.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11966722*
> It shouldn't really matter. Just use one as a smurf IMO


Well I was planning on using the other one for Zerg/Terran some time


----------



## Mwarren

No offense to BigFan but hes full of himself. His macro is horrible and even that is an understatement. I wouldn't even worry about micro, strategy's, apm until I got good macro. Even my macro is horrible and I'm high plat beating low/mid diamonds. I still suck though, you just have to man up and admit it lol. By the way spending your money is the core of what macro really is.....rofl you cant have good macro with horrible spending.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966731*
> Well I was planning on using the other one for Zerg/Terran some time


Yeah, it's a good way to pick up the other races without screwing over your ranking. I'm planning on getting a 2nd account too, although I'm going to ask one of my korean friends if they can get me a korean account.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966728*
> Ive tried that before a lost a good chunk of my army lol. I like to pay attention to my army when attacking and macro where I can just queue up something with hotkeys. Only time I really take my attention away from something is if I need a key upgrade done ASAP (chrono boost) or if Im reinforcing units at a pylon. Missing key force fields is really really crucial sometimes.


The best tip that I can give you is when your money is getting high pull your army back a little bit and hit the hold position key and build unit/upgrade structures then. You can easily constantly produce units/upgrades/workers while in a battle but building unit producing strictures is tricky and more risky so you should back out if you have to make some strictures.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11966786*
> The best tip that I can give you is when your money is getting high pull your army back a little bit and hit the hold position key and build unit/upgrade structures then. You can easily constantly produce units/upgrades/workers while in a battle but building unit producing strictures is tricky and more risky so you should back out if you have to make some strictures.


I do that sometimes. I stop at a Xel Naga Tower, spend my money then proceed to attack.


----------



## nlsthzn

This thread is now "Over 900(0)!" pages long... good job


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966728*
> Ive tried that before a lost a good chunk of my army lol. I like to pay attention to my army when attacking and macro where I can just queue up something with hotkeys. Only time I really take my attention away from something is if I need a key upgrade done ASAP (chrono boost) or if Im reinforcing units at a pylon. Missing key force fields is really really crucial sometimes.


Yea it sure is at higher levels where your macro stops being an issue. I have never seen a silver level game where someone lost because of bad forcefields or some micro mistake.


----------



## vdek

Ahh, so apparently about 2600-2700+ is good enough to get you into the masters league. I neeeeed to get in by the end of this weekend.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11966892*
> Ahh, so apparently about 2600-2700+ is good enough to get you into the masters league. I neeeeed to get in by the end of this weekend.


Weren't you doing "a push to 3k" over the previous one?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11966947*
> Weren't you doing "a push to 3k" over the previous one?


Yah, I ended up doing practice matches against jediwin and losing like 10 in a row ^_^ Killed my drive, lol. Only went up 200 points. Maybe this weekend if I don't get into the tournament since I'm only a backup.


----------



## yks

post some reps of that vdek.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11966304*
> I'm not saying knowing counters are wrong. I'm saying... nevermind.


Agree to disagree








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;11966343*
> bigfan games?


Sure, will be on shortly








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966539*
> What I try to do is macro up *right before I push*. This includes making probes, throwing up expo, transferring probes, chrono boosting upgrades, make pylons, buildings etc.
> 
> You typically dont want to take your attention away from the battle while you are attacking unless you know that there is no threat of losing your army. The last thing you want to do is to lose your entire army while your attention is away from the battle. Once you are done attacking, immediately spend your money depending on what you see.


I've read posts about doing that(queue a bit, spawn larvae, etc....), I just forget to do it, because, I'm too interested in the battle to come







I'll make sure to do that though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11966660*
> how do you have good macro but horrible spending? please answer.


Well, to me at least, macro is made from seperate component(making workers, army, structures, expanding, etc...). It's true that spending is a key component because you'll need the money for such things. Whenever I say good macro or decent, all I mean is I kept on making workers, made a good size army, expanded at the right time, etc....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966728*
> Ive tried that before a lost a good chunk of my army lol. *I like to pay attention to my army when attacking* and macro where I can just queue up something with hotkeys. Only time I really take my attention away from something is if I need a key upgrade done ASAP (chrono boost) or if Im reinforcing units at a pylon. Missing key force fields is really really crucial sometimes.


Thank you, finally someone who actually agrees that watching said battle is a good idea. I've had cases where I left mutas outside of an enemy base to go back to my base(didn't use control groups then) and next thing I know, all 14 of them were vaporized by marines. Seems I left them too close. Likewise, I've had cases where I've been late ffing a ramp and was overrun by MMM, GG T_T Anyways, it's just about balancing both and I have yet to find it, but, getting close








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11966731*
> Well I was planning on using the other one for Zerg/Terran some time


Nice, do that, although, playing Z/T at diamond level isn't gonna be a walk, will likely get depromoted unless you can play some customs and get used to the races








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11966741*
> No offense to BigFan but hes full of himself. His macro is horrible and even that is an understatement. I wouldn't even worry about micro, strategy's, apm until I got good macro. Even my macro is horrible and I'm high plat beating low/mid diamonds. I still suck though, you just have to man up and admit it lol. By the way spending your money is the core of what macro really is.....rofl you cant have good macro with horrible spending.


I never said my macro was flawless or awesome, I simply stated that I've improved and in recent games have been able to spend well enough until I reach mid game where the engagement with my opponent usually distracts me from keeping up with my macro thus I have excess resources and can't build enough to use them. Considering that I'm playing and watching my games, I know my own weaknesses better than anyone and I know how far I can go. BTW, how many of my games have you really watched, because, I'm pretty confident that its several at best?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11966866*
> Yea it sure is at higher levels where your macro stops being an issue. I have never seen a *silver level game where someone lost because of bad forcefields or some micro mistake*.


Then you've obviously never seen any of my games XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11966962*
> Yah, I ended up doing practice matches against jediwin and *losing like 10 in a row* ^_^ Killed my drive, lol. Only went up 200 points. Maybe this weekend if I don't get into the tournament since I'm only a backup.


rofl. You shouldn't let that deter you, if anything, it should be your driving force to get to 3k and win him in the next match


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11966892*
> Ahh, so apparently about 2600-2700+ is good enough to get you into the masters league. I neeeeed to get in by the end of this weekend.


I should already be there, I hope they count division tiers.


----------



## BigFan

If anyone is interested in a game, I'm on. Don't feel like laddering much


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qcarmstrong;11959739*
> anyone have a good strat against p v z, against good micro 6 pool cheesers?


If on 1v1 small maps, I would scout after the first mineral is collected. On bigger maps I would scout after first pylon.

First pylon should be placed so its spanning circumference covers the top of the ramp. As you scout around the zerg base and see quick pool, I would put down a forge immediately, then a gateway. By now you'll need another pylon so build it as back up for the first. You can now, a: seal off ramp with that pylon, or seal it with a canon. Chronoboost a zealot out asap and continue the game from there on.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11960064*
> I have a 2900 Terran friend who hates Muta's with a passion and thinks they are super imba vs Terran, but I actually disagree with him completely.
> 
> My TvT is bad because I refuse to play it standard and never practice it. Something I plan on changing.


I would also be in the same boat as P. I feel they are harsh imba vs toss. I feel PvZ is imba as zerg has much more unit ability than toss.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11957544*
> Im talking about forge to FE. We have our expos up at approximately the same time. His may be slightly earlier. I try to make just enough units to survive but I still want my warp gates by 8min because of the risk of nydus. I prefer cannons since I'll have a lot of minerals.
> 
> I think I need to start my +1 upgrade and get my 6 gates up a little earlier if Im going forge to FE. Im finding myself having excess resources even when pushing at 10:30.


It was exactly what I was talking about as well. Did you watch day9's MC vs Ret analysis? It's exactly that, with modifications as you scout intermittently before the 6 gates are up.

Here's a plat level PvZ with me forge fast expand vs zerg with mutas and mass expand



Here's another one PvZ vs diamond level zerg that went hydra but I out expanded him after initial 6 gate +1 failed push.


----------



## ThumperSD

I saw most of the day9 daily but didnt get to finish it. I just need to start my +1 and get my 6 gates up a little sooner when I go forge to FE. Im just used to the 3gate expo to 6gate delayed push.


----------



## nlsthzn

Nice avvie Thumper... just got a match up against an opponent where he was favoured... and he decided to rush me most of his SCV?!

So I held him off, expecting a gg but nothing... 3 minutes later... again most of his SCV's... hold him off... then for a third time a few minutes later?! By then I have two barracks pumping out units plus an expansion... go to his base to destroy his CC... why would he do that, boredom?!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11967417*
> If on 1v1 small maps, I would scout after the first mineral is collected. On bigger maps I would scout after first pylon.
> 
> First pylon should be placed so its spanning circumference covers the top of the ramp. As you scout around the zerg base and see quick pool, I would put down a forge immediately, then a gateway. By now you'll need another pylon so build it as back up for the first. You can now, a: seal off ramp with that pylon, or seal it with a canon. Chronoboost a zealot out asap and continue the game from there on.
> 
> I would also be in the same boat as P. I feel they are harsh imba vs toss. I feel PvZ is imba as zerg has much more unit ability than toss.
> 
> It was exactly what I was talking about as well. Did you watch day9's MC vs Ret analysis? It's exactly that, with modifications as you scout intermittently before the 6 gates are up.
> 
> Here's a plat level PvZ with me forge fast expand vs zerg with mutas and mass expand
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another one PvZ vs diamond level zerg that went hydra but I out expanded him after initial 6 gate +1 failed push.


Why do you have different name in both games?

DQ is probably the worst map in the whole map pool to go forge FE, because of how hard it is to defend your expo. If you actually won these games the zerg must have been pretty bad.

Also Nexus first is generally better then forge FE. The reason why MC went forge FE in this daily is because of close spawn positions. Finally this build (6 gate) is not so effective against most roach/hydra plays, so I wouldn't recommend it for the ladder so much.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11967979*
> Nice avvie Thumper... just got a match up against an opponent where he was favoured... and he decided to rush me most of his SCV?!
> 
> So I held him off, expecting a gg but nothing... 3 minutes later... again most of his SCV's... hold him off... then for a third time a few minutes later?! By then I have two barracks pumping out units plus an expansion... go to his base to destroy his CC... why would he do that, boredom?!


Probably he just watched some BitByBit matches.


----------



## yks

Jinro vs Idra tonight!!!


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11968033*
> Jinro vs Idra tonight!!!


Yup... can't wait...


----------



## DoomDash

I wish 1.2 was out right now. I wanna see if I'm master league already. 2500 now.


----------



## CramComplex




----------



## yks

All good, it was crap.

the person i wanted to win didn't win either, =[


----------



## CramComplex

Ah it's still Code A games...cool...JINRO!!! GO GO GO JINRO!!! *nosebleeds*

LOL http://i.imgur.com/hHIC7.gif


----------



## nlsthzn

Also rooting 4 Jinro...

5 minutes to go!!


----------



## yks

I want Jinro to win against Idra

and i want them both to advance


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;11968522*
> I want Jinro to win against Idra
> 
> and i want them both to advance


^^^This!


----------



## CramComplex

HERE WE GO! Sorry guys but I'm rooting for Jinro all the way...granted IdrA is good...but he's too BM but I have to say he gives respect to those people who deserve it...but still...meh...

ANYWAY...JINRO GO GO GO GO!!! LONG LIVE TERRAN IMBA FOREVER!!! JINRO BANZAI!!


----------



## vdek

Could you guys use spoiler tags please for the Jinro vs Idra matchup, I can't watch till I get back from work =[


----------



## thiru

Jungle basin 15 CC GO!

(no vdek the game hasn't started yet)


----------



## CramComplex

Holy crap...the game was awesome!!! Will not spoil









[EDIT]
Geh...sister slapped my head 'coz I was too noisy as it's only 7am and I'm making such a loud noise...


----------



## yks

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



**** yeah jinro, you are my jinronator


----------



## thiru

Interesting.
And surprising.

(hahah driving vdek nuts)


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



bad map for idra


----------



## yks

vdek, thiru, do you know how intense that game was?

It was so intense, me and doom didn't talk at all during the game. and you know how much we talk in chat.

we didnt talk at all until it was over and the loser GG'd out.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11968831*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> bad map for idra


^ This


----------



## nlsthzn

Intensity in ten cities!


----------



## thiru

That was sick.


----------



## nlsthzn

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/community/fanart/?ip=starcraft#35


----------



## DoomDash

omg jinro picks Protoss vs IdrA and mothership rushes!

opps sorry vdek.


----------



## vdek




----------



## DoomDash

Jinro vs Check, I recommend.


----------



## nlsthzn

Oh wow... epic group!


----------



## CramComplex

gaddamnit...tsk tsk tsk...bad bad bad move...goddamnit! just that one mistake...just ONE MISTAKE!!!! gadammnit!


----------



## thiru

Intense group is intense.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11969056*
> Intense group is intense.


^ THIS!!! OMG...the Jinro micro is sooooo friggin' awesome!


----------



## nlsthzn

Wow!


----------



## yks

HOLY F*CKIN S*IT
Jinro vs Ensnare was HOLY MOLY


----------



## thiru

This **** keeps getting sicker and sicker!

Best group matches for sure


----------



## DoomDash

Jinro vs Ensnare was the 2nd best TvT I've ever seen.


----------



## yks

DUDE, I was looking at the Ro16 Groups.

DAMN CODE S is getting INSANE.


----------



## CramComplex

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



OMG...this is TvT in it's highest form...can't get any better than this...47minutes of pure TvT and pure adrenaline...man I'm shaking in me seat right now...WOW...WOW...WOW...this is again the epitome of TvT...this should be the goal for every Terran.


----------



## nlsthzn

I think I would pass out long before the game got this epic...


----------



## thiru

Rofl @ roach race


----------



## nlsthzn

Ring around the Roaches... lol... almost anticlimactic


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Jinro and idra advance!


----------



## CramComplex

Yeah...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



well it's good that IdrA is in as I'm all for foreign players getting into the GSL. But it wasn't as epic as that TvT...



Well I guess it's sleep time for me...can't wait for the next round... PEW PEW PEW


----------



## yks

Spoiler Alert! Ro16 Groups:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*Group A*:
NesTea
Boxer
Zenio
Tester

*Group B*
IMmvp
ChoyafOu
TheBestfOu
oGsHyperDub

*Group C*
Genius
NaDa
Clide!!!!!!!
Idra

*Group D*
oGsMC
ST_Rainbow
Jinro
MarineKing.Prime


----------



## vdek

Thank goodness for spoiler tags!


----------



## Mwarren

Idras so cocky rofl, "Ill beat him easy".


----------



## Allenssmart

omg i can't log onto bnet ahh!


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11969456*
> omg i can't log onto bnet ahh!


Probably were banned.


----------



## DoomDash

US server is down for maintenance. Also patch 1.2 is out today.


----------



## ZionEx

How do I get good without playing? I kid, I kid. Any noobs want to practice with me some time? I'm really crappy in every way and would enjoy getting better so I could take on my friend who is in Gold.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZionEx;11969529*
> How do I get good without playing? I kid, I kid. Any noobs want to practice with me some time? I'm really crappy in every way and would enjoy getting better so I could take on my friend who is in Gold.


me, i'm just like you. i'm really bad and i want to get good. add me

zombiehunter 711


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OMG... what did i miss.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11969575*
> OMG... what did i miss.


Only the most epic Code S day ever.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11969495*
> US server is down for maintenance. Also patch 1.2 is out today.


Masters league, here I come!

Also apparently the Masters league is based entirely on MMR not points. So I could get in without having to play 200 more games if I can keep my ratio up.


----------



## Gigalisk

Oh noes! Patches!!


----------



## thiru

Lame, NA's getting the patch before EU?.............


----------



## roberT_

anyone have the patch notes to post here?


----------



## thiru

Balances:
Balance
* GENERAL
o Players can no longer block off ramps with two 2x2 buildings.

* PROTOSS
o Hallucination research time decreased from 110 to 80.
o Observer
+ Cost decreased from 50/100 to 25/75.
o Phoenix
+ Build time decreased from 45 to 35.
o Void Ray
+ Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.
+ Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.

* TERRAN
o SCV
+ Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they're repairing.
+ SCV construction movement has been made more consistent.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11969608*
> Lame, NA's getting the patch before EU?.............


From what I have read on the battle.net forums this is the norm actually...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11969590*
> Masters league, here I come!
> 
> Also apparently the Masters league is based entirely on MMR not points. So I could get in without having to play 200 more games if I can keep my ratio up.


I don't know if that's true yet. I saw some posts on it on TL, but I think that would be really dumb. It would be much better if it was ranked by the same system they rank the top 200. MMR is super inflated if you are new player or on a new account.

I have a hard time believing that right now.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11969746*
> I don't know if that's true yet. I saw some posts on it on TL, but I think that would be really dumb. It would be much better if it was ranked by the same system they rank the top 200. MMR is super inflated if you are new player or on a new account.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that right now.


Some guy is in the SEA master's league with 31 wins 13 losses.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11969742*
> From what I have read on the battle.net forums this is the norm actually...


Oh, that sucks







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11969746*
> I don't know if that's true yet. I saw some posts on it on TL, but I think that would be really dumb. It would be much better if it was ranked by the same system they rank the top 200. MMR is super inflated if you are new player or on a new account.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that right now.


I'm thinking Masters league by top MMR and Grand Masters league by Top200. But GML isn't out yet. Is it still planned?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11969761*
> Some guy is in the SEA master's league with 31 wins 13 losses.


Yes which is dumb because at that stage you cannot accurately judge someones skill. Battle.net's match making system gets more accurate over time. The entire reason I got a 13 win streak ( and this was in my 50ish wins area ) on huggle is because it takes a long time for it to accurately match you against people near your skill level, certainly more than 40 games. This is why I don't believe it is going to end up being this way or should be this way because that system will have a bunch of people who the match making system hasn't accurately judged getting Master league. As the MMR threads discuss, you MMR will inflate really high for awhile until you hit people your own level.


----------



## nlsthzn

I had a match today and my opponent was "Slightly Favoured" and I stomped him and after the game I checked his stats for 1v1 and he was 2 games/1 win ... I was like







The ranking system has some serious flaws...


----------



## zeheero

Thats gay how they just nerf terrans even more. I mean that I understand that scv have the same threat but I can't understand why we can place buildings on upcoming ramps. If the opponent is too stupid to put a droid or probes auto on the ramps thats their own fault......


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zeheero*


Thats gay how they just nerf terrans even more. I mean that I understand that scv have the same threat but I can't understand why we can place buildings on upcoming ramps. If the opponent is too stupid to put a droid or probes auto on the ramps thats their own fault......


Yah ok... Try playing as zerg and having it done to you dozens upon dozens of times. See how you like it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes which is dumb because at that stage you cannot accurately judge someones skill. Battle.net's match making system gets more accurate over time. The entire reason I got a 13 win streak ( and this was in my 50ish wins area ) on huggle is because it takes a long time for it to accurately match you against people near your skill level, certainly more than 40 games. This is why I don't believe it is going to end up being this way or should be this way because that system will have a bunch of people who the match making system hasn't accurately judged getting Master league. As the MMR threads discuss, you MMR will inflate really high for awhile until you hit people your own level.


If you can consistently beat 2700+ players then you deserve to be in the Master's League. You shouldn't have to play 300 games for it to stabilize.


----------



## zeheero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yah ok... Try playing as zerg and having it done to you dozens upon dozens of times. See how you like it.

If you can consistently beat 2700+ players then you deserve to be in the Master's League. You shouldn't have to play 300 games for it to stabilize.


I play zerg all the time and all you have to do is put a unit over by the ramp that pretty cancel the terran tatic. I don't understand why blizzard keeps nerfing things that doesnt need to..


----------



## BigFan

Talk about GSL fever







BTW, how is this GSL working? I mean I can see the different groups and code levels, but, how does that translate? Is it something similar to the World Cup group where the top two advance?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11969965*
> I had a match today and my opponent was "Slightly Favoured" and I stomped him and after the game I checked his stats for 1v1 and he was 2 games/1 win ... I was like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking system has some serious flaws...


It happens








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeheero;11969999*
> Thats gay how they just nerf terrans even more. I mean that I understand that scv have the same threat but I can't understand why we can place buildings on upcoming ramps. If the opponent is too stupid to put a droid or probes auto on the ramps thats their own fault......


oops, just realized that we aren't talking about the same thing







I still think its annoying though XD


----------



## rhed5

So is the patch up and running? Might be forced to ladder if they already have the new master league


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


If you can consistently beat 2700+ players then you deserve to be in the Master's League. You shouldn't have to play 300 games for it to stabilize.


But then have MMR be the standard for everything. It makes no sense to have a ladder system that gives you points ( which don't even accurately display your skill level ), then have a system that is your points + things like division tier modifiers, and then an entirely new form of measurement for another league based upon MMR.

What I'm saying is it makes no god damn sense. lol.

Also I don't think beating 15 2800 players is enough to have earned a spot in master league. That's pretty much going against the match making system in general in theory. Remember more games = Better the system works. Just cause I was beating 2600 players 13 times in a row on huggle does not mean I deserve Master league. I would rather have the system be something based on more proven accuracy.


----------



## thiru

NA is down until 11AM PST.


----------



## zeheero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Talk about GSL fever







BTW, how is this GSL working? I mean I can see the different groups and code levels, but, how does that translate? Is it something similar to the World Cup group where the top two advance?

It happens









You've obviously never went up against up against mass thors with many SCVs repairing. It's annoying as ever because your units will keep going for the thors while the SCVs are repairing away allowing the thors to deal their dps. SCV are small enough units and are annoying to target one by one which is the reason why techniques such as the slipknot were invented but one shouldn't have to resort to these kind of techniques










Thors aren't cheap to build man. It requires alot of gas and alot of minerals. If a player can't stop a terran from expanding than really it is the players fault. You say that SCV is a big problem, however this is no problem when you send a few banelings at the thor, it will not only dmg the thor but kill every scv allow with it. Beside, if you can defend a thor rush than you really don't belong in diamond. I just think it was stupid how blizzard constantly nerfing things that doesn't need to be nerf. Why the hell can't you build buildings below people ramp...... Btw, I don't use this techniques, cause thors cost too much to build.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But then have MMR be the standard for everything. It makes no sense to have a ladder system that gives you points ( which don't even accurately display your skill level ), then have a system that is your points + things like division tier modifiers, and then an entirely new form of measurement for another league based upon MMR.

What I'm saying is it makes no god damn sense. lol.

Also I don't think beating 15 2800 players is enough to have earned a spot in master league. That's pretty much going against the match making system in general in theory. Remember more games = Better the system works. Just cause I was beating 2600 players 13 times in a row on huggle does not mean I deserve Master league. I would rather have the system be something based on more proven accuracy.



It makes perfect sense from Blizzard's perspective. The way the bonus pool system and divisions are set up, it encourages people to play as much as possible. There was a long winded post on TL explaining it in more detail, but from what I was reading, it's a very good way to get people to play.

If the game just showed MMR, people might be too discouraged to keep playing when they see their MMR stagnating. The points system lets their "rating" keep increasing as long as they play more. A lesson they learned from WoW.

Also, if you can consistently beat players that are in the masters league, why beat around the bush and force players to grind.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeheero;11970382*
> Thors aren't cheap to build man. It requires alot of gas and alot of minerals. If a player can't stop a terran from expanding than really it is the players fault. You say that SCV is a big problem, however this is no problem when you send a few banelings at the thor, it will not only dmg the thor but kill every scv allow with it. Beside, if you can defend a thor rush than you really don't belong in diamond. I just think it was stupid how blizzard constantly nerfing things that doesn't need to be nerf. Why the hell can't you build buildings below people ramp...... Btw, I don't use this techniques, cause thors cost too much to build.


Ya, I just realized you were talking about bunkers at the ramp. Well, I haven't had a ton of experience with it but its pretty annoying playing as Z when it happens. Should they have nerfed it? I really have no clue. BTW, I'm not in diamond and have been able to defend against mass thor attacks, so, that's not the issue, just an example


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11970555*
> It makes perfect sense from Blizzard's perspective. The way the bonus pool system and divisions are set up, it encourages people to play as much as possible. There was a long winded post on TL explaining it in more detail, but from what I was reading, it's a very good way to get people to play.
> 
> If the game just showed MMR, people might be too discouraged to keep playing when they see their MMR stagnating. The points system lets their "rating" keep increasing as long as they play more. A lesson they learned from WoW.
> 
> Also, if you can consistently beat players that are in the masters league, why beat around the bush and force players to grind.


I know why they have the ladder system the way it is, I don't mind that. But when they are doing things like Master League by MMR when MMR is better determined by more games played it makes little sense.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yah ok... Try playing as zerg and having it done to you dozens upon dozens of times. See how you like it.

If you can consistently beat 2700+ players then you deserve to be in the Master's League. You shouldn't have to play 300 games for it to stabilize.


Is there patch notes or something? I think master league should be around 3200+ unless it is already specified somewhere else.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11970891*
> Is there patch notes or something? I think master league should be around 3200+ unless it is already specified somewhere else.


Master league is top 5% not 2%. It won't take 3200 to get in.

Patch notes:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183337


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11970904*
> Master league is top 5% not 2%. It won't take 3200 to get in.
> 
> Patch notes:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183337


Yea I was confusing master's league with grand master's league.

So everyone is already placed in a division? Or will there be placement matches again? Master league here I come







.


----------



## thiru

I think all you need to do is play a game and you'll be automatically placed if you belong there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Yea I was confusing master's league with grand master's league.

So everyone is already placed in a division? Or will there be placement matches again? Master league here I come







.


Seems like people on SEA are playing like 3 games and getting in. I hope to find out soon as well







.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11970945*
> Seems like people on SEA are playing like 3 games and getting in. I hope to find out soon as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's going to suck having to 3 pylon against Z now







.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I know why they have the ladder system the way it is, I don't mind that. But when they are doing things like Master League by MMR when MMR is better determined by more games played it makes little sense.


What else are they going to go by? Points? Points don't mean diddly squat because of the bonus pool. Divisions between Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond are already done via MMR, so why not Masters League too? It works pretty well I think.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


What else are they going to go by? Points? Points don't mean diddly squat because of the bonus pool. Divisions between Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond are already done via MMR, so why not Masters League too? It works pretty well I think.


Everyone has the same bonus pool so that's actually not true. What makes points mean nothing is division tiers.

However, if you read how MMR works you realize how inflated it gets if you just started playing or have a new account, so its not completely accurate until you play many games.

They need a system that judges more than just MMR, which is why I'm thinking that Blizzard needs to comment if it is truly is just MMR that will get you in.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Everyone has the same bonus pool so that's actually not true. What makes points mean nothing is division tiers.

However, if you read how MMR works you realize how inflated it gets if you just started playing or have a new account, so its not completely accurate until you play many games.

They need a system that judges more than just MMR, which is why I'm thinking that Blizzard needs to comment if it is truly is just MMR that will get you in.


MMR does not get inflated, what happens is the uncertainty factor in your MMR gets higher and higher the more games you win. This causes you to be paired against really good players and continued wins will increase your uncertainty factor even higher. Losses bring your deviation from your MMR down.

The MMR rating works a lot like WoWs Arena system, it also most likely only goes up 16-32 points per match at most.

Your MMR on your huggle account is most likely not very different from your MMR on Doomdash. That means the system is working correctly. It would be stupid if it kept you in the bronze league to play 100 games until you could get into Silver and so on. It would get you mad for grinding, and get a lot of noobs mad for losing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


MMR does not get inflated, what happens is the uncertainty factor in your MMR gets higher and higher the more games you win. This causes you to be paired against really good players and continued wins will increase your uncertainty factor even higher. Losses bring your deviation from your MMR down.

The MMR rating works a lot like WoWs Arena system, it also most likely only goes up 16-32 points per match at most.



Either way I will take the long term accuracy over something that probably isn't deserved with a few games played. I bet my Huggle account has a better MMR than DoomDash simply because I started over on it, but that's a stupid reason to be in Master League.

At the end of the day less games = less accurate.


----------



## Blooregard

Is getting into master league through points or is it by mmr?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blooregard*


Is getting into master league through points or is it by mmr?


So far its in theory MMR, but not confirmed yet.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Either way I will take the long term accuracy over something that probably isn't deserved with a few games played. I bet my Huggle account has a better MMR than DoomDash simply because I started over on it, but that's a stupid reason to be in Master League.


I bet it doesn't.

Quote:



At the end of the day less games = less accurate.


This is true, but you don't need 500+ games to have an accurate skill rating, it's easily possible in 100 or so games.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Either way I will take the long term accuracy over something that probably isn't deserved with a few games played. I bet my Huggle account has a better MMR than DoomDash simply because I started over on it, but that's a stupid reason to be in Master League.

At the end of the day less games = less accurate.


Adding points won't do much considering that Meatowllegs got to 3k in about as many games as the huggle account.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


It's going to suck having to 3 pylon against Z now







.


Well, not much you can do. Gonna have to outmacro and keep on harassing if you plan to win against Z









Anyone else excited about these improvements:
- Battle.net Chat Channels have been added! Players can now join others in both public and private channels.
- Stalemate Detection has been added. This will end the game in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed structures for three consecutive minutes. A countdown timer will now appear when the game detects this scenario.
- An Extreme graphics option is now available. Players can now configure screen space ambient occlusion
- Added a toggle button to the in-game replay panel to Show or Hide the timeline/duration information.

lol @
- Fixed an issue where cliff jumping units were able to traverse unpathable terrain.
- Fixed an issue where melee units were unable to attack a colossus when it was on a cliff.
- Fixed an issue where larva would not wander around.


----------



## thiru

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaNxaSWORh8


Yes, I already know that(doom posted replay a while back). I just think it's pretty funny









Edit: Going to predict that after this patch, P would be considered much stronger leading to a slight nerf next patch, buff for T and Z to remain the same


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I bet it doesn't.

This is true, but you don't need 500+ games to have an accurate skill rating, it's easily possible in 100 or so games.



But you think 40 is fine?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But you think 40 is fine?


If the game is matching you up with qxc and you beat him, don't you think the player might be masters league material? Because that's what's going to happen when you have such a ridiculous win ratio.

Don't forget that was on the SEA server where there are a lot less players. It took me ~75 games to get into Diamond from Silver league, so I think it works alright.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


If the game is matching you up with qxc and you beat him, don't you think the player might be masters league material? Because that's what's going to happen when you have such a ridiculous win ratio.

Don't forget that was on the SEA server where there are a lot less players. It took me ~75 games to get into Diamond from Silver league, so I think it works alright.


If you say so.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


If you say so.


I'm almost 100% certain the match making system they are using for this game is extremely similiar to the one used for the WoW Arena system. I have about 5 seasons of experience in that in the 2000+ range(top 5%) on one of the most competitive battlegroups.

The biggest difference between these two systems is that the SCII system allows for one to rank up quicker. The fundamentals of the system are solid though.

Personally I think it works great. Just saying I've got a pretty decent intuitive sense of how the system works having grinded through it so many times.


----------



## BigFan

Anyone else getting patch atm?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Anyone else getting patch atm?










Yep.

See you guys in overclock.net


----------



## vdek

The coolest part about today being patch day? Another snowstorm is about to roar through New York which means no work tomorrow. I would be so angry if the patch was tomorrow >_>


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep.

See you guys in overclock.net


Nice, see ya


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The coolest part about today being patch day? Another snowstorm is about to roar through New York which means *no work tomorrow*. I would be so angry if the patch was tomorrow >_>


Talk about skipping work XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I'm almost 100% certain the match making system they are using for this game is extremely similiar to the one used for the WoW Arena system. I have about 5 seasons of experience in that in the 2000+ range(top 5%) on one of the most competitive battlegroups.

The biggest difference between these two systems is that the SCII system allows for one to rank up quicker. The fundamentals of the system are solid though.

Personally I think it works great. Just saying I've got a pretty decent intuitive sense of how the system works having grinded through it so many times.


Well if it works on MMR, I guess people like me might have 2 accounts in Master league hehe ( or more ).


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well if it works on MMR, I guess people like me might have 2 accounts in Master league hehe.


I believe you can be demoted from the master's league for being inactive though. Don't take my word for it though, not certain. Would be annoying to have the master's league fill up with Smurfs, heh. Although technically it does increase the player pool which should allow more players into the masters league. Just not enough to compensate for the fact Masters League is so exclusive.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Talk about skipping work XD












Not having to get up at 6am makes me happy.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I believe you can be demoted from the master's league for being inactive though. Don't take my word for it though, not certain. Would be annoying to have the master's league fill up with Smurfs, heh. Although technically it does increase the player pool which should allow more players into the masters league. Just not enough to compensate for the fact Masters League is so exclusive.











We need Blizzard to confirm how it works. Top 5% of Diamond, but by what standards? If it is MMR I want to hear it from them.

Then I still don't get why top 200 isn't by MMR, shouldn't they be held at the same standards?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*











Not having to get up at 6am makes me happy.


Having a job in the field is priceless and I would be willing to wake up THAT early


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We need Blizzard to confirm how it works. Top 5% of Diamond, but by what standards? If it is MMR I want to hear it from them.

Then I still don't get why top 200 isn't by MMR, shouldn't they be held at the same standards?


The points system is a semi-accurate reflection of MMR when you take away the bonus pool point inflation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Having a job in the field is priceless and I would be willing to wake up THAT early










What field?

It gets tiring every day, at least for me since I'm a night owl. I usually make do with 4-5 hours of sleep per day :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The points system is a semi-accurate reflection of MMR when you take away the bonus pool point inflation.

What field?

It gets tiring every day, at least for me since I'm a night owl. I usually make do with 4-5 hours of sleep per day :/


Reason they have bonus pool is to keep people laddering as already mentioned although I really would like to see my MMR :/

I thought you said you were a Mechanical Eng, so, I assumed your job had to do with that


----------



## DoomDash

I just hope they make it MMR + Points just like the top 200. That makes the most sense, especially because it will be more accurate, and as you said is a pretty good representation of MMR. That would be ideal. So lets hope so.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just hope they make it MMR + Points just like the top 200. That makes the most sense, especially because it will be more accurate, and as you said is a pretty good representation of MMR. That would be ideal. So lets hope so.


Sounds like someone is dying to get into the ML







Either way, I'm sure you'll get in or close


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Reason they have bonus pool is to keep people laddering as already mentioned although I really would like to see my MMR :/


Yeah, it'd be nice if they would show MMR on the side.

Quote:



I thought you said you were a Mechanical Eng, so, I assumed your job had to do with that










Oh, I am, I like my job, I just hate getting up at 6 am.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Yeah, it'd be nice if they would show MMR on the side.

Oh, I am, I like my job, I just hate getting up at 6 am.


I see. As for MMR, I'm not holding my breath


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sounds like someone is dying to get into the ML







Either way, I'm sure you'll get in or close










Either way would work out in my favor, but I think more games played is a better judge, so it only makes more logical sense.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm on battle.net now, seems like the chat channels are not working yet ( though the option is there ). Probably just not done with maintenance yet.


----------



## BigFan

Having a chatfest atm XD


----------



## vdek

Now that we can change hotkeys, going to be changing Backspace to the ` key. Although I'm debating on making it the g key...

Reason being that I hotkey my queens to 5 usually, So going 5gvgvgvgv to inject should be really easy. 5`v`v`v`v`v isn't too bad either though using my pinky and thumb.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

You guys played since the patch? It's a phoenix fest now. First game I played a diamond Toss who did a proxy stargate and got 3 phoenixes out real fast. Totally unexpected. Every P I've played so far has phoenix out early now.


----------



## thiru

Don't forget to join the "*Overclock.net*" channel!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Don't forget to join the "*Overclock.net*" channel!


Indeed, but, first you must: "Identify yourself". I believe that its SC1 quote, any takers?









Hopefully Blizz will fix this 5 placement match issue


----------



## thiru

Guys how do you leave channels? lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Wow, can't believe Idra lost to Jinro. Is there somewhere I can see the VODs?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Guys how do you leave channels? lol


You're on EU?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Wow, can't believe Idra lost to Jinro. Is there somewhere I can see the VODs?

You're on EU?


No I'm on huggle. Patch isn't out yet in Europe AFAIK. Is it?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


No I'm on huggle. Patch isn't out yet in Europe AFAIK. Is it?


Dunno, just wondered. Don't have access to the game atm.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Wow, can't believe Idra lost to Jinro. Is there somewhere I can see the VODs?


...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


...


Don't worry dude, it's a joke.

Right?


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## rhed5

Congrats on masterleague doom! Cool logo. Judging from that screenshot, you can be in more than 1 channel at a time? If you close that box, are you out of the channel?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Guys how do you leave channels? lol


Just close it?









Really hope that was a JK poroboszcz because I was planning to watch that. Congrats on the master league doom


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11972975*
> Wow, can't believe Idra lost to Jinro. Is there somewhere I can see the VODs?


Joke or not, any response to this will only make it more obvious one way or the other (*spoiler tags*)









I would really recommend giving out the $10 for the season ticket... the HQ quality live stream and replays makes it so worth it... seriously, today's matches alone justify the cost... serious!!


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks for the congrats.

Jedi, yes you can, and if you close it you are out. You leave it open and you come back there and see all the conversations people had when you are out of your game.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11973253*


GRATS ON THE PLACEMENT!!! Now teach the n00b Terrans from OCN~~~~~ please?~~~~~ XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11975629*
> GRATS ON THE PLACEMENT!!! Now teach the n00b Terrans from OCN~~~~~ please?~~~~~ XD


XD
The chat has like 10+ppl now


----------



## poroboszcz

It seems to be getting quiet here since the chat channels.


----------



## Gigalisk

So true....btw...if you are in a sucky place like me right now, and using the blizzupdater isnt working for you:

THIS IS THE BLIZZARD PATCH FTP.

I just changed some lives today.

You're welcome.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## ThumperSD

Grats Doom. Did you automatically get placed in there? I thought they were going to erase everyone's record. I was hoping for that so everybody can start fresh.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;11978521*
> It seems to be getting quiet here since the chat channels.


That cause everyone is in the chat channels atm. Had an FFA with jediwin, thiru, yks, vdek, cram and 2 very hard computers. Lots of fun







You should join us


----------



## nlsthzn

Seriously need more EU players...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;11978690*
> Grats Doom. Did you automatically get placed in there? I thought they were going to erase everyone's record. I was hoping for that so everybody can start fresh.


No I went 1-3 and the 1 win got me promoted.


----------



## DoomDash

Huggle is now in Masters too







. vdek you can do it.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;11980679*
> Hey guys. I got SC2 a few months ago, and I love it. I'm a zerg player in bronze league and I was hoping you peeps could help me to improve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I watch Day[9]'s dailys, and watch some pro games, too.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say, really, so I'll keep it short.


Awesome... another EU player... nice, and welcome, bronze Terran here









Anyhow... I wonder how the new patch is going to affect the GSL? I cannot currently log into Battlenet (I seriously hope it is due to the patch and nothing else)... but I hope this doesn't affect the SEA server any more...


----------



## Rebellion88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;11980679*
> Hey guys. I got SC2 a few months ago, and I love it. I'm a zerg player in bronze league and I was hoping you peeps could help me to improve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I watch Day[9]'s dailys, and watch some pro games, too.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say, really, so I'll keep it short.


Quite hard to find that many UK players maybe we can team up sometime or have a 1v1, I'm a Protoss player myself.


----------



## DoomDash

For yks.


----------



## yks

<333 +rep


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's the replay for?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11980960*
> What's the replay for?


yks







.

jk. I couldn't send it over AIM. He was kinda asking how Protoss deal with my build so I sent him a replay of me losing. I think I should have went vikings faster that match.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Oh I see. I also do 2 gate robo FE vs terran. What I didn't know was that you can hide a SCV there and the pylon doesn't spot it in the bushes.

Take a look at the income on minerals

P - 31 (- 6 on gas) probes - 760
T - 25 (-3 on gas) scvs - 1000

God bless them mules.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Oh I see. I also do 2 gate robo FE vs terran. What I didn't know was that you can hide a SCV there and the pylon doesn't spot it in the bushes.

Take a look at the income on minerals

P - 31 (- 6 on gas) probes - 760
T - 25 (-3 on gas) scvs - 1000

God bless them mules.



Yeah old trick







. Pretty sure it doesn't show up on the minimap too.

and yeah that's cause SCV's build slow.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2053471#blog

Quote:



Since shortly after the release of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, we've been regularly sharing Top 200 lists to help people keep track of the performance of the best players in their region. With the release of StarCraft II patch 1.2, we're launching a new league designed to give the best players in each region a new arena in which to prove their skill: the Master League. While the existing Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond leagues each encompass 20% of the active players in a region, only the top 2% of players will be promoted into the Master League. In other words, this is a league for the best of the best.

Wondering out it works? Here's a brief Q&A to help answer some of your questions.

Q: Why are you introducing the Master League?
A: The Master League is designed to provide a more competitive arena for the top 2% of StarCraft II players in a region, and to help recognize the talents of the most skilled StarCraft II players. The skill gap between the top and bottom players in the Diamond League is fairly wide, and we wanted to acknowledge that distinction. In addition, the Master League provides us with a natural pool of players for determining placement in the upcoming (and even more exclusive) Grandmaster League.

Q: How do I get into the Master League?
A: Only the top 2% of active players in each region will be elevated to the Master League. Because the Diamond League accounts for 20% of all active players, even the #1 ranked player in your Diamond division may not necessarily be promoted to Master League. Our automated placement system compares your player skill to that of all players in your region by way of matches played, just as we do with the Top 200, to determine eligibility.

Q: Will the Master League start with the launch of the patch?
A: The top 2% of players from the Diamond League (as determined by our system) will be promoted to the Master league starting with patch 1.2. As with all promotions, Master League placement can only occur after winning a match.

Q: I'm in the Master League! What else you got?
A: First, congratulations are in order -- you're really good at StarCraft II! Beyond the Master League, we have plans for a Grandmaster League, encompassing the top 200 players in each region. We'll have more details to share in the future.

Q: Are you ever going to reset the leagues?
A: Yes, and we'll be sure to let you know before we do. Note that we will not reset your skill rating when we reset the leagues, so don't expect to rocket beyond or drop well below where you were before when you're placed after a reset.

It's important to us that the StarCraft II matching system provides fast, fair, and fun competition for everyone, and we'll continue to improve the league and ladder system to provide a great gameplay experience for all of our players. We hope you've been enjoying yourself so far, and we look forward to sharing more of our plans in the future.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Grandmaster league, lol. League inflation running rampant. How long before diamond is a mid-level league?


----------



## zazzn

I do 12 or 11 to stop 8 pool.

If they 8 pool and you are 14-15 you are dead for sure unless they are garbage.
Not many people do 8 pool anymore though i did it the other day and caught the guy off guard lol that was after 6 ZVZ's and I was board of playing zvz since it's tiring.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


I do 12 or 11 to stop 8 pool.

If they 8 pool and you are 14-15 you are dead for sure unless they are garbage.
Not many people do 8 pool anymore though i did it the other day and caught the guy off guard lol that was after 6 ZVZ's and I was board of playing zvz since it's tiring.


I like that you listed your sig as a sig, and didn't use the actual add system options







.

Eric I'm in Masters on both my accounts, get in already.


----------



## nlsthzn

Phew... missed the first few code A games as the GOMplayer said it couldn't connect to the stream... thankfully back now... CODE S coming up in 10!!


----------



## yks

Thumper, I got a replay I want to send you.

nvm. lost it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Thumper, I got a replay I want to send you.

nvm. lost it.


The new patch added an option to save all replays. If you aren't using that features on SCIIgears already.


----------



## ThumperSD

what replay?


----------



## EmMure

**** patch is live i might have to go back to toss


----------



## CramComplex

Is it me or are the games just not as epic as yesterday?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Is it me or are the games just not as epic as yesterday?


Of course not, that doesn't happen every day.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Of course not, that doesn't happen every day.


True...hmm...might as well get some games going OR go to sleep. ~__~;


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


**** patch is live i might have to go back to toss


PvZ is a phoenix fest now. With chrono you can get one out in 25 time units. People are hiding a stargate in some obscure corner of the map and pumping 3 phoenixes out and heading straight for the zerg main.


----------



## DoomDash

i'd be going phoenix too.


----------



## nlsthzn

I am a sad panda... games in the GSL not going the way I wanted too today... but that's ok, at least my stream and SC2 is working again... cool... is there a OCN SC2 chat channel for the EU server yet?!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I am a sad panda... games in the GSL not going the way I wanted too today... but that's ok, at least my stream and SC2 is working again... cool... is there a OCN SC2 chat channel for the EU server yet?!


Considering only like 2-3 Euro players are active I don't know. A shame their is no cross region play.


----------



## blackedv

why is it 3/3 rines are so dominating in 4v4, i swear thats all i have to use and it seems like its an instant win here lately once i get my 4th rax going. colossus fall to it,havent really come across banes or templar yet but i have a feeling i could deal with banes.i love those little bastards







rines are the only reason i play terran lol


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


i'd be going phoenix too.


Everybody is doing the triple-phoenix rush, from diamond on down. You can't scout it early enough to know for sure that it's coming. If you invest resources to prepare for the phoenixes you might get crushed by a big ground attack instead. Which do you prepare for? Flip a coin. I'm guessing soon the standard PvZ opening will include 4 queens. That's the only solution I can see right now.


----------



## DoomDash

I think the phoenix void ray rush isnt used enough. One phoenix, one voidray... phoenix lifts the queen and everything else is free kills.


----------



## civilian_pr0ject

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blackedv*


why is it 3/3 rines are so dominating in 4v4, i swear thats all i have to use and it seems like its an instant win here lately once i get my 4th rax going. colossus fall to it,havent really come across banes or templar yet but i have a feeling i could deal with banes.i love those little bastards







rines are the only reason i play terran lol


im new to sc2 but doing well as terran. marines/marauder army with medivac is evil


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think the phoenix void ray rush isnt used enough. One phoenix, one voidray... phoenix lifts the queen and everything else is free kills.


It is being used now. A diamond P did it to me today.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I've already seen protoss build 3 or 4 fast gateways for deception. Z sees the gateways, Z thinks he better prepare for a ground battle. Turns out the hidden stargate was the immediate threat. Guy did this to me today. My overlord saw a bunch of gates so I immediately made some roaches and spinecrawlers. Instead of a ground attack 3 phoenixes showed up and killed my queens. The gateways only produced enough ground units to defend the P ramp. Very annoying.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


I am a sad panda... games in the GSL not going the way I wanted too today... but that's ok, at least my stream and SC2 is working again... cool... is there a OCN SC2 chat channel for the EU server yet?!


Just go to "Overclock.net".


----------



## nlsthzn

11 game winning streak... really tried to work on my macro a bit more... first time I went up to having 3 bases... problem is I still ended the end with 4000plus minerals and gas... but as I denied my opponent his own expansions it was a war of attrition... I also have to focus on playing with tanks ... not doing that enough :/

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13877196/Ste...3%29.SC2Replay

Any comments... I know I have far to go... but I do learn (slowly







)


----------



## Liamo Luo

Hey guys.

Will be joining in the chat channel likely tomorrow. Was hoping to find some help as a zerg player. I'm stuck in bronze in everything







Me and a friend are 6th in our Bronze league and it keeps pitting us against higher tear players but we always fall at that hurdle.

I maybe need to start playing 1v1's more often, they are actually quite intimidating since you don't have another person to fight with and discuss plans etc... But yeah, if anyone can ever spend some time chatting to me to help me atleast try move up to silver in something I'd be happy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo*


Hey guys.

Will be joining in the chat channel likely tomorrow. Was hoping to find some help as a zerg player. I'm stuck in bronze in everything







Me and a friend are 6th in our Bronze league and it keeps pitting us against higher tear players but we always fall at that hurdle.

I maybe need to start playing 1v1's more often, they are actually quite intimidating since you don't have another person to fight with and discuss plans etc... But yeah, if anyone can ever spend some time chatting to me to help me atleast try move up to silver in something I'd be happy










Of course. The overclock.net channel on battle.net will be the place to talk / play now, so join us.

Vdek uploading a TvZ replay of a Z who kinda does your style. Very close game and to be honest with you I've been playing pretty awful the last few days ( feel like my vision is blurry too lol ). My macro is off, and I was just playing very sloppy. Good news is I medivac in it







. You may enjoy it.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo*


Hey guys.

Will be joining in the chat channel likely tomorrow. Was hoping to find some help as a zerg player. I'm stuck in bronze in everything







Me and a friend are 6th in our Bronze league and it keeps pitting us against higher tear players but we always fall at that hurdle.

I maybe need to start playing 1v1's more often, they are actually quite intimidating since you don't have another person to fight with and discuss plans etc... But yeah, if anyone can ever spend some time chatting to me to help me atleast try move up to silver in something I'd be happy










Stop laddering for a while. Play only custom games against people in higher leagues. I stalled out in silver league and decided not to ladder until I got better. I played only diamond and some plats for a week. Those guys still kick my ass usually but I've learned a lot from playing them. The game is so much faster against diamond opponents and it makes you faster when you play them. Save the replays of good builds that your diamond opponets used against you and copy them. I just started laddering again this morning and silver and gold leaguers look so SLOW now. I beat a gold protoss an hour ago and it felt like the guy was moving in slow motion. All those games against diamonds have redefined my concepts of what's fast and what's slow.


----------



## DoomDash

Diamond players suck! hahahahaha. ( New Master league elitism ! )


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


I do 12 or 11 to stop 8 pool.

If they 8 pool and you are 14-15 you are dead for sure unless they are garbage.
Not many people do 8 pool anymore though i did it the other day and caught the guy off guard lol that was after* 6 ZVZ's *and I was board of playing zvz since it's tiring.


Lucky you. I don't get many ZvsZs anymore since I've switched to random









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*I like that you listed your sig as a sig, and didn't use the actual add system options*







.

Eric I'm in Masters on both my accounts, get in already.


lol^^ Surprised he isn't in, pretty confident that he'll get there eventually.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The new patch added an option to save all replays. If you aren't using that features on SCIIgears already.


I dislike adding all replays since I save them in a certain format









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


PvZ is a phoenix fest now. With chrono you can get one out in 25 time units. People are hiding a stargate in some obscure corner of the map and pumping 3 phoenixes out and heading straight for the zerg main.


Interesting. Did have a ZvsP game which I took because the guy kept on going stalkers after his first push. He was on an even number of bases but I got a third gold and denied his, was a pretty easy game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think the phoenix void ray rush isnt used enough. One phoenix, one voidray... phoenix lifts the queen and everything else is free kills.


Interestingly enough, I did that against EmMule, although, I also got some other units and didn't tech straight to SGs. Idea as you mentioned was to lift with phenoixes and use VR to take it down









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I've already seen protoss build 3 or 4 fast gateways for deception. Z sees the gateways, Z thinks he better prepare for a ground battle. Turns out the hidden stargate was the immediate threat. Guy did this to me today. My overlord saw a bunch of gates so I immediately made some roaches and spinecrawlers. Instead of a ground attack 3 phoenixes showed up and killed my queens. The gateways only produced enough ground units to defend the P ramp. Very annoying.


Thanks for this, will try to keep an eye on it. Doubt those in silver would think about doing that, but, we'll see










Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


11 game winning streak... really tried to work on my macro a bit more... first time I went up to having 3 bases... problem is I still ended the end with *4000plus minerals and gas*... but as I denied my opponent his own expansions it was a war of attrition... I also have to focus on playing with tanks ... not doing that enough :/

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13877196/Ste...3%29.SC2Replay

Any comments... I know I have far to go... but I do learn (slowly







)


Same problem as me. Spending isn't bad at the start, but, as the game proceeds and I get an exp up, I can't keep up with the amount of income coming up.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Stop laddering for a while. Play only custom games against people in higher leagues. I stalled out in silver league and decided not to ladder until I got better. I played only diamond and some plats for a week. Those guys still kick my ass usually but I've learned a lot from playing them. The game is so much faster against diamond opponents and it makes you faster when you play them. Save the replays of good builds that your diamond opponets used against you and copy them. I just started laddering again this morning and silver and gold leaguers look so SLOW now. I beat a gold protoss an hour ago and it felt like the guy was moving in slow motion. All those games against diamonds have redefined my concepts of what's fast and what's slow.


While I agree, I think he should still ladder. You'll get odd strats at the low leagues which can catch you off guard if you are used to the ones used in diamond, so, this will at least help him account for both and improve his mechanics faster









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Of course. The overclock.net channel on battle.net will be the place to talk / play now, so join us.

Vdek uploading a TvZ replay of a Z who kinda does your style. Very close game and to be honest with you I've been playing pretty awful the last few days ( feel like my vision is blurry too lol ). My macro is off, and I was just playing very sloppy. Good news is I medivac in it







. You may enjoy it.


Don't think he can, since, he's a EU player :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Diamond players suck! hahahahaha. ( New Master league elitism ! )


Can't say I didn't expect that?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Can't say I didn't expect that?










But did you expect THIS: ----|
<----------------------------------|


----------



## Rayzer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But did you expect THIS: ----|
<----------------------------------|


How many games did it take you? I heard the MMR and Bonus pool also have an effect on your chances of getting the promotion.

A few people on TL got promoted after their first game. I'm kind of tempted to play a few games after stopping for 2 weeks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rayzer*


How many games did it take you? I heard the MMR and Bonus pool also have an effect on your chances of getting the promotion.

A few people on TL got promoted after their first game. I'm kind of tempted to play a few games after stopping for 2 weeks.


On both my accounts just one win. I had high enough MMR to get in, and all that triggers it is one win.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rayzer*


How many games did it take you? I heard the MMR and Bonus pool also have an effect on your chances of getting the promotion.

A few people on TL got promoted after their first game. I'm kind of tempted to play a few games after stopping for 2 weeks.


I believe it took him 4 games, 1-3 record for those to get the promotion









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But did you expect THIS: ----|
<----------------------------------|










No I didn't expect that XD BTW, I could do that as well


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I believe it took him 4 games, 1-3 record for those to get the promotion
















No I didn't expect that XD BTW, I could do that as well










1-4 actually. I think I miss counted earlier. It just took the win though, loses weren't too important.

Do you mean you'll put a Silver icon as your avatar?







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1-4 actually. I think I miss counted earlier. It just took the win though, loses weren't too important.

Do you mean you'll put a *Silver icon *as your avatar?







.


XD I meant I can easily put any avatar I want, only those who have my profile or know me can tell my league


----------



## nlsthzn

Nice avvie DoomDash


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


XD I meant I can easily put any avatar I want, only those who have my profile or know me can tell my league










Pshh we will spill your secret and you'll be living a lie!


----------



## Rayzer

Did you use the formula from TL to calculate your MMR?

Yeah, I think I'll play a game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pshh we will spill your secret and you'll be living a lie!


Assuming you find all the forums I'm on XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rayzer*


Did you use the formula from TL to calculate your MMR?

Yeah, I think I'll play a game


No. I was in an S tier division @ 2500+ points before Master league though.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone who thinks they can cast better get their act together for this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183443


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11983922*
> Anyone who thinks they can cast better get their act together for this:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183443


Moving to Korea is a life changing event that probably isn't worth the amount of money they would pay you lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11983951*
> Moving to Korea is a life changing event that probably isn't worth the amount of money they would pay you lol.


Are you kidding me? If I thought I'd be good at it I'd be all over that. The experience alone is worth more than a lame good paying job here.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Could that star be a lil bigger?


----------



## holyherbiness

that master league icon is hideous. Congrats to whoever has it. I guess that means i'm still in the lowly top 20%. Then again, I never play any single league for more than a few dozen games haha.

The chat channels are a little weird. But I've found some pretty good partners already


----------



## DoomDash

5 people on oc.net so far in it.


----------



## thiru

I'm on EU.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11984094*
> 5 people on Overclock.net so far in it.


It's quite literally a diamond reset. Master's league is almost laughable.

Korean's salary is a little bit below ours, but I'm sure the cost of goods is cheaper also.


----------



## Mwarren

Master league seems like its almost too easy to get into once you're in diamond. It seems like you only need 2300+ points to get in.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;11984580*
> Master league seems like its almost too easy to get into once you're in diamond. It seems like you only need 2300+ points to get in.


I got in on huggle with only 1600.

It's about MMR, just like Diamond.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Anyone watch Day9s Nydus Worm funday monday? He was hilarious during that one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11983951*
> Moving to Korea is a life changing event that probably isn't worth the amount of money they would pay you lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11984019*
> Are you kidding me? If I thought I'd be good at it I'd be all over that. The experience alone is worth more than a lame good paying job here.


I dunno, I think Cory is on to something. While I wouldn't mind moving myself, I have a career already and then when you consider the salary, cost of goods and what the job is, it becomes a meh thing








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11984418*
> It's quite literally a diamond reset. Master's league is almost laughable.
> 
> Korean's salary is a little bit below ours, but I'm sure the cost of goods is cheaper also.


Cost of goods is more expensive I think. Reason I say this is because Chad on here is in Korean and I recall he was saying that getting his rig together(i7+470) was expensive, but, not sure if he got parts from Korea or shipped to


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;11984418*
> It's quite literally a diamond reset. Master's league is almost laughable.
> 
> Korean's salary is a little bit below ours, but I'm sure the cost of goods is cheaper also.


Maybe for the lower class people. A friend of mine who is an italian american worked in Korea for 10+ years said it was more expensive to live there than Canada, which is more expensive than the states atm.

Things to note. Getting experience in Korea doesn't mean a good job there, or a better job when you come back. A lot of employers in Canada don't count corporate experience over there. I don't know about the states.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raptor_Jesus;11985039*
> Anyone watch Day9s Nydus Worm funday monday? He was hilarious during that one.


If i'm in it i'm going to rage. I kept on getting one base nydas'd until few days later when I found out about munday.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## yellowtoblerone

easy for terrans to say.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11985767*
> easy for terrans to say.


Easy for anyone to say. It's called spending money, something that crosses all races.


----------



## Katana

It can occasionally be difficult for a beginner zerg player like me; if you haven't expanded at just the right time, you'll be short on larva.

And for any race, if you haven't estimated the amount of gas v minerals you'll need, you could be stalemated into making zerglings for a while until you have enough gas for something stronger.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11985754*


lol, easier said than done. My best for average unspent was about what light had(~500) on a PvsP on LT one basing and constantly pumping units


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm up one for the day, yay lol. Laddering and getting wins in a row is super hard at this MMR







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11986594*
> I think I'm up one for the day, yay lol. Laddering and getting wins in a row is super hard at this MMR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Then you'll go down two tommorrow, two up the day after(be satisfied), then lose five, go on a little tilt, get pissed, BM a bit about banes and then decide to take a break from SC2 XD









Joking aside, that's good news to start with a win, keep it up









Just had a 1vs1 with jediwin(TvsZ). Well, you could tell the outcome was more clear as the game went on. I've never seen anyone go mass hellions with blue flame throughout the game though, should've scouted more







Added in marauders eventually and I wasn't able to keep my mutas production. By the time the game ended, I had over 150+ workers made. I think he took out like 30 easy in a large hellion attack before his last one XD On the bright side, I was able to survive his attacks throughout but shouldn't have used my drones after his first major attack because that set me back a lot :/ Either way, great fun to watch and play







Maybe I'll upload for giggles after I come back


----------



## DoomDash

I wish I could thumbs down 4 maps







.


----------



## DoomDash

Since SCA is down, we started a new forum:

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php


----------



## thiru

.. who do you mean "we"?


----------



## DoomDash

SCA people.


----------



## nlsthzn

The chat is working quite well... just watched some games, even got a chance to play a Gold rated player... he miss micro'd his banelings and I actually took the game... wow...

This could be a good place to practice... so far 12 wins in a row on ladder... but still not getting games against stronger players :/ ... need to get to Silver soon!


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;11982722*
> Stop laddering for a while. Play only custom games against people in higher leagues. I stalled out in silver league and decided not to ladder until I got better. I played only diamond and some plats for a week. Those guys still kick my ass usually but I've learned a lot from playing them. The game is so much faster against diamond opponents and it makes you faster when you play them. Save the replays of good builds that your diamond opponets used against you and copy them. I just started laddering again this morning and silver and gold leaguers look so SLOW now. I beat a gold protoss an hour ago and it felt like the guy was moving in slow motion. All those games against diamonds have redefined my concepts of what's fast and what's slow.


Heh that sounds like the best plan to be honest. I beat most bronze players, can even take silvers a fair amount of the time but beyond that I just can't keep up. I don't know anyone thats a higher tear then me so i'd be happy to play against any of you guys on here to learn







Problem is the stupid time zone difference


----------



## thiru

Add me if you want. Semirhage #522


----------



## yks

Its like a mixture of a cokc and Rocky right now =p


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

When is that ladder reset coming?


----------



## Allenssmart

OMG I HATE PSI STORM. i hate psi storm. i hate protoss. no i'm not trolling. The guy high templar rushed me, had a ht with psi storm 9 minutes in. i attacked at 11 minutes, was playing on metropolis so my 80 supply bio army gets raped in 10 seconds? 2 psi storms gg. hmm... op much?


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

You let him tech to psi? In 7 minutes you should have had a bioball big enough to gg him, or at least set him back a good ways.


----------



## thiru

If you'd attacked him before that he'd have nothing.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Raptor_Jesus*


You let him tech to psi? In 7 minutes you should have had a bioball big enough to gg him, or at least set him back a good ways.


hmmm yeah. i have a 5 win streak against protoss with my 3 rax rush, one game decided to take it a little slower and this is what happens. back to 3 rax


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;11990065*
> hmmm yeah. i have a 5 win streak against protoss with my 3 rax rush, one game decided to take it a little slower and this is what happens. back to 3 rax


As a protoss I will admit the thing that gets me the most is definitely early MM. As lame as it is, it works. MM rushes hurt as protoss, but are countered with FFs until you get an immortal out.


----------



## Mwarren

Yea, I've had games where Toss tried to tech too fast to either templars or even getting an early twilight council and its actually easy to just scout them constantly and take them out when you get stim. Early game ghosts rape toss though, no FF's.


----------



## thiru

The most epic baneling bust ever:

http://www.justin.tv/dcrane/b/277412738?

skip to 5:30


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wish I could thumbs down 4 maps







.


XD
Well, I've never thumbed down any maps. Would much rather learn and adapt my strats to each map then thumb them down









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Its like a mixture of a cokc and Rocky right now =p


?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Raptor_Jesus*


When is that ladder reset coming?


Heard Feb 2 from cory









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


OMG I HATE PSI STORM. i hate psi storm. i hate protoss. no i'm not trolling. The guy high templar rushed me, had a ht with psi storm 9 minutes in. i attacked at 11 minutes, was playing on metropolis so my 80 supply bio army gets raped in 10 seconds? 2 psi storms gg. hmm... op much?


PSI Storm is strong but two issues here: a) you let him tech without harassing(from the sounds of it) b) a ghost can EMP all his hts and take out their energy rendering them useless









Edit: ^^Epic is an understatement, he took out most of P's base and a decent chunk of Ts base XD


----------



## zazzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I like that you listed your sig as a sig, and didn't use the actual add system options







.

Eric I'm in Masters on both my accounts, get in already.


I haven't played since the new patch, I'm in Colombia for work ;P

I think the first game I play I'll get drafted.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Then you'll go down two tommorrow, two up the day after(be satisfied), then lose five, go on a little tilt, get pissed, BM a bit about banes and then decide to take a break from SC2 XD









Joking aside, that's good news to start with a win, keep it up









Just had a 1vs1 with jediwin(TvsZ). Well, you could tell the outcome was more clear as the game went on. I've never seen anyone go mass hellions with blue flame throughout the game though, should've scouted more







Added in marauders eventually and I wasn't able to keep my mutas production. By the time the game ended, I had over 150+ workers made. I think he took out like 30 easy in a large hellion attack before his last one XD On the bright side, I was able to survive his attacks throughout but shouldn't have used my drones after his first major attack because that set me back a lot :/ Either way, great fun to watch and play







Maybe I'll upload for giggles after I come back










Burrow is your friend







soon as you see them rollin up, dig, and send in the roaches also 2 spines keep them out of your pit.

If he is relentless, position queens and evo chambers so he cannot get in the pit.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


Burrow is your friend







soon as you see them rollin up, dig, and send in the roaches also 2 spines keep them out of your pit.

If he is relentless, position queens and evo chambers so he cannot get in the pit.


Yes, indeed. I don't use burrowed roaches much, so, I forgot about it. Ironically enough, after one of his attacks, I mentioned that I should've gotten burrow







He was pretty relentless which is the way I like it XD I also tried placing queens on ramp to prevent him from moving up in his second attack. I was able to defend his first and second attacks well enough. For the second though, I moved my drones from my exp into his marauders when I had like 3-4 mutas left to mop up, so, that cost me and I had to redrone up. Eventually, as the game went on, he was on 4 bases with a gold compared to my 5(had 2 with maybe 2-3 drones though, others full saturated and main mined out).

We were playing on XC, so, large area to cover but I did place some crawlers around and near ramp, etc.... I tried to get some hatcheries up since I have issues spending and to narrow the area and create a choke but he attacked right then XD I'll upload because even though I lost badly and had issues with spending, I still think the game was entertaining to watch. You should play jedi sometime, he's amazing at all 3 races and has a crazy win/loss ratio


----------



## zazzn

crawlers in the pit when it's hellons, dig for the drones, not the roaches.


----------



## zazzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Of course. The overclock.net channel on battle.net will be the place to talk / play now, so join us.

Vdek uploading a TvZ replay of a Z who kinda does your style. Very close game and to be honest with you I've been playing pretty awful the last few days ( feel like my vision is blurry too lol ). My macro is off, and I was just playing very sloppy. Good news is I medivac in it







. You may enjoy it.


you got owned because your micro was shiet that game. all your marines where clumped instead of spread you didn't have enough tanks, and I think him doing the roaches fed you up at the start and your build started to wonder for a bit. Anyways, spread the marines, you needed marauders to tank the mbanes like you normally do.

I also suggest that you bring 5-10 scvs when you attack. You can build bunkers, raxes and all sorts of **** to make it hard for zerg to engage you because all the buildings are in the way


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


crawlers in the pit when it's hellons, dig for the drones, not the roaches.










oh, thought the idea was to burrow roaches and quickly regenerate health, but, I agree, burrow for the drones is a must


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


you got owned because your micro was shiet that game. all your marines where clumped instead of spread you didn't have enough tanks, and I think him doing the roaches fed you up at the start and your build started to wonder for a bit. Anyways, spread the marines, you needed marauders to tank the mbanes like you normally do.

I also suggest that you bring 5-10 scvs when you attack. You can build bunkers, raxes and all sorts of **** to make it hard for zerg to engage you because all the buildings are in the way


I did say I played like **** didn't I?







. Really I did.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The most epic baneling bust ever:

http://www.justin.tv/dcrane/b/277412738?

skip to 5:30



He is really good at making banelings.

Making banelings, a useful talent toi have.


----------



## nlsthzn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY  



 
For nostalgia's sake...


----------



## DoomDash

vdek I want to try an old strat vs u.


----------



## EmMure

god those plantronics gamecons are soooooooooo ugly


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Add me if you want. Semirhage #522


Thanks I added you, my SC2 name is the same as my OC name so you'll know its me.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;11993601*
> Thanks I added you, my SC2 name is the same as my OC name so you'll know its me.


Also pop into the overclock.net chat channel









Some very interesting Code S matches so far... a lot of mind games, and they working well









edit: Wow... some epic Terran play again...


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;11993679*
> Also pop into the overclock.net chat channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some very interesting Code S matches so far... a lot of mind games, and they working well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Wow... some epic Terran play again...


I keep poping in the channel but I'm always the only one there









Channel is overclock.net right?

Also anyone please feel free to add me:

Liamo #801


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;11993820*
> I keep poping in the channel but I'm always the only one there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Channel is overclock.net right?
> 
> Also anyone please feel free to add me:
> 
> Liamo #801


The EU channel is a bit empty... was there last night, Blinker popped in for a few minutes (poor guy is sick, hope he gets better soon)...

edit: added btw


----------



## CramComplex

well it's me EmMure and DoomDash on the NA server...

So wait...you EU guys can't have a NA account but the SEA accounts can have NA accounts?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;11993840*
> well it's me EmMure and DoomDash on the NA server...
> 
> So wait...you EU guys can't have a NA account but the SEA accounts can have NA accounts?


Guess I could buy another copy for the US servers... doubt I will though...


----------



## Liamo Luo

Ah it sucks that we can't just have one channel that allows anyone from any region to connect.


----------



## CramComplex

Weird...coz my friend from the SEA servers just registered for a NA account and he got his own...been playing with him on the NA servers ever since.


----------



## DoomDash

Only SEA gets cross region play ( how lame is that ).


----------



## Liamo Luo

Wait? Does that mean I can't even play against someone in NA even if they are on my friends list? Man, that blows. So much for the world wide web aye.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;11994040*
> Wait? Does that mean I can't even play against someone in NA even if they are on my friends list? Man, that blows. So much for the world wide web aye.


They cannot be on your friends list at all unless they have a Euro account.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11994072*
> They cannot be on your friends list at all unless they have a Euro account.


Aah Blizzard. Slicing the world into small chunks. Clever money making scheme though. I'm sure a lot of people end up purchasing multiple versions. I'd be tempted to make a new battle.net account with a US region SC2 just to play people on here since most of OC SC2 players are in NA it would appear.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## thiru

I think I barfed a little.

lol I just watched Orb rape a terran with high templar + colossus + carriers


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11993513*
> vdek I want to try an old strat vs u.


Ok.

I'll say this in advanced,

I'm sorry.

You guys mighta missed this daily, but guess what he's trying to be like in here:


----------



## DoomDash

Sorry about what?

A Drone?


----------



## CramComplex

i LOL'ed...still laughing...


----------



## vdek

On another note, 3 straight wins and I didn't get promoted to the masters league yet. One of the last guys I played was #2 in his diamond division. I'm on a 6-7 game win streak right now in 1v1 ladder so that might be affecting it.

I think I still need to bring my MMR up.

QQ.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;11994649*
> Sorry about what?


So many banelings!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11995041*
> 
> So many banelings!


Apologize for playing that race.


----------



## DoomDash

My gf has been playing SCII a lot more recently heh.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;11994561*
> Ok.
> 
> I'll say this in advanced,
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> You guys mighta missed this daily, but guess what he's trying to be like in here:


He look like a zerg drone chopping at a mineral block.


----------



## ThumperSD

Code S games looking good for tonight


----------



## DoomDash

lol I got paired up with AMD in a ladder match.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


lol I got paired up with AMD in a ladder match.


Guessing you mean 1vs1, that's pretty funny. He won, didn't he?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Guessing you mean 1vs1, that's pretty funny. He won, didn't he?










No







. I did joke that he would beat me in ladder but not in customs though







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No







. I did joke that he would beat me in ladder but not in customs though







.


lol, btw, guess you got tired of that master league avatar, didn't you?


----------



## DoomDash

Not tired of it, tired of letting Protoss and Zerg players feel safe around here.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not tired of it, tired of letting Protoss and Zerg players *feel safe around here*.


How so?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


How so?










Just telling them to watch out for the Dominion! We're coming for ya.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Just telling them to watch out for the Dominion! We're coming for ya.


I ain't afraid of no terran scums, bring it on! Once our essences combine as per our master's plan, we shall be unstoppable. No puny humans will be able to stand in our way. You'll be like a leaf blown in the wind, your direction charted by our desire and if we decide against keeping you alive, it's light off and a goodnight to you


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I ain't afraid of no terran scum, bring it on! Once our essences combine as per our master's plan, we shall be unstoppable. No puny human will be able to stand in our way. You'll be like a leaf blown in the wind, your direction charted by our desire and if we decide against keeping you alive, it's light off and a goodnight to you


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












Mark my words, our Queen of Blades Sarah Kerrigan will be back and you humans will regret the day you stepped on Char defiling our homeworld. For the Swarm!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Mark my words, our Queen of Blades Sarah Kerrigan will be back and you humans will regret the day you stepped on Char defiling our homeworld. For the Swarm!


Prophecies beg to differ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Prophecies beg to differ.


For you see, we have created these Prophecies to lead those astray unto a common path. A path filled with horrors from which none will survive and which will indirectly lead to our victory . It was all a trick, one that your Raynor fell into easily. Zeratul is indeed a great actor


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


For you see, we have created these Prophecies to lead those astray unto a common path. A path filled with horrors from which none will survive and which will indirectly lead to our victory . It was all a trick, one that your Raynor fell into easily. Zeratul is indeed a great actor










You ruined the entire story for me. I never played single player, thanks.


----------



## Mwarren

That path is known by our creator, the great lazerith of cumbine. He will lead us into the path of darkness only to bring us out and lead us to victory. He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and all knowing. He knows we will take you out for he has seen the future. ROFL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You ruined the entire story for me. I never played single player, thanks.










I thought you've already went through SP, just playing brutal now. Either way, most of what I said was superficial as in I didn't give details about what happened. Some of that prophetic stuff isn't true either. If I did ruin something though, I apologize, wasn't my intent, was all in good fun


----------



## yks

Are you guys ready for clideeeeeeeeee versus idraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Are you guys ready for clideeeeeeeeee versus idraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


nope, trying to help doom recover what's left of his SP, although, I didn't give much details and stretched out everything a lot(some jokes in my posts). I don't have a season ticket either, so, I can't watch any :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*









I thought you've already went through SP, just playing brutal now. Either way, most of what I said was superficial as in I didn't give details about what happened. Some of that prophetic stuff isn't true either. If I did ruin something though, I apologize, wasn't my intent, was all in good fun










Pulling your chain!


----------



## thiru

I give up on team games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pulling your chain!


You sir have pulled my chain far enough. I challenge these to a duel(1vs1) to be streamed by whoever wants. Shall thou expect my challenge or cower in fear at the might of Zerg and Kerrigan?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I give up on team games.


lol, why?


----------



## thiru

The bullcrap you have to deal with goes up exponentially with the number of players involved.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


The bullcrap you have to deal with goes up exponentially with the number of players involved.


Why do you think I gave up on team games? Jk, me and EmMule communicate well in 2vs2s, but, I prefer 1vs1s and loneliness XD I did find that in 3vs3 and 4vs4, shared unit control was annoying. I would much rather be able to control my own units, thank you


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I give up on team games.


I gave up a long long time ago. Lot's of reasons I hate it.

A) I don't feel the fun at all, even liked in SC1/BW which is odd.

B) Teammates either suck, or they know best ( they think ) and they actually don't.

C) Skill required is just not nearly as much as 1v1.

D) Not rewarding like 1v1. Win a 2v2? Who cares. 1v1 is entirely your actions winning the game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I gave up a long long time ago. Lot's of reasons I hate it.

A) I don't feel the fun at all, even liked in SC1/BW which is odd.

B) Teammates either suck, or they know best ( they think ) and they actually don't.

C) Skill required is just not nearly as much as 1v1.

D) Not rewarding like 1v1. Win a 2v2? Who cares. 1v1 is entirely your actions winning the game.


I wonder if I'm included in point B







But yes, you can get away with a lot of things in 2vs2(mass banshees+mass vikings or mass VRs) which you can't in 1vs1 because in team games, your partner can help in the case of any early attack


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I just think it's kinda silly. OH, also the maps are almost all horrible. I think I like maybe 4 of all the 2v2-3v3-4v4 maps.


----------



## thiru

Anyone got links for GSL RO16 day1?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I just think it's kinda silly. OH, also the maps are almost all horrible. I think I like maybe 4 of all the 2v2-3v3-4v4 maps.


4? I think I like at best 2. Some of those 3vs3 maps are horrid and let's not mention the 4vs4 maps







Would say 2vs2 had the best maps but of course, 1vs1 maps still reign supreme. I just wish blizzard would make maps with bigger ramps, more space in the middle for bigger army engagement, etc.... I miss those maps









^^Try this: http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?year=201...ship1&round=16


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


4? I think I like at best 2. Some of those 3vs3 maps are horrid and let's not mention the 4vs4 maps







Would say 2vs2 had the best maps but of course, 1vs1 maps still reign supreme. I just wish blizzard would make maps with bigger ramps, more space in the middle for bigger army engagement, etc.... I miss those maps









^^Try this: http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?year=201...ship1&round=16










Thanks


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks










np, anytime


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Ok.











no no, he's acting like a drone, but he actually looks like kermit. Day9's a muppet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*












Which episode was that with the nuke? You don't see them used much, so, it's always interesting to see nuke play


----------



## zazzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oh, thought the idea was to burrow roaches and quickly regenerate health, but, I agree, burrow for the drones is a must










Naw, the point is to dig so he can't snip your drones quickly if you see a wack of hellons heading in and you are unprepared.

Dig, is good for everything.... The one thing I need to do more against doom is dig banes while he pushes out. He usually doesn't have ravens and moves in clumps until he engages.

1 set of nicely placed banes would make him sequel. ;P But mostly my brood lords do that.

I want to see PSY play some good Terran's. All the terrans I see him play do the same gay ****... More accurately, I want to see him play vs Doom's early aggression builds.

I noticed the guy first in my devision got promoted... Also Vdek, remember Diamond just got a lot easier since all the higher ranked are moved into masters league.

Can you believe that I'm in Colombia and all I want to do is paly SC but my poor old laptop struggles to play on lowest settings...







core 2 duo 2ghz with Nvidia 7400 GO.









Also my mouse sucks and the internet too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


Naw, the point is to dig so he can't snip your drones quickly if you see a wack of hellons heading in and you are unprepared.

Dig, is good for everything.... The one thing I need to do more against doom is dig banes while he pushes out. He usually doesn't have ravens and moves in clumps until he engages.

1 set of nicely placed banes would make him sequel. ;P But mostly my brood lords do that.

I want to see PSY play some good Terran's. All the terrans I see him play do the same gay ****... More accurately, I want to see him play vs Doom's early aggression builds.

I noticed the guy first in my devision got promoted... Also Vdek, remember Diamond just got a lot easier since all the higher ranked are moved into masters league.

Can you believe that I'm in Colombia and all I want to do is paly SC but my poor old laptop struggles to play on lowest settings...







core 2 duo 2ghz with Nvidia 7400 GO.










Also my mouse sucks and the internet too.


Yes, I agree. I think I'm going to start getting burrow as soon as I see my spending getting out of control and starting to accumulate or as early as possible without affecting the game. Have you tried bane drops? I tried to do it in one of my games just as my opponent moved out, lucky for me his remaining units were clumped and I was actually able to press the couple of OLs that had banes(had more for confusion purposes). Alternatively, you can send in some OLs first to make him think about bane drops then move in with slings and whatever else you have, will make it harder for him to micro with OLs as cover









I would think work comes first







but use the time to relax and think of some strats, etc.... that you could've missed. Taking a couple of days off is always a good thing and allows you to gain your composure







Internet can't be as bad as mine is atm XD


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nope, trying to help doom recover what's left of his SP, although, I didn't give much details and stretched out everything a lot(some jokes in my posts). I don't have a season ticket either, so, I can't watch any :/


You can watch the live stream on Standard Quality for free...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


You can watch the live stream on Standard Quality for free...


Yes, but, its 6-7am EST. Much prefer my sleep


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, but, its 6-7am EST. Much prefer my sleep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*












XD
As much as I love SCII, to me, SCI > SCII and life > SCII therefore SCI = life, but, ya, would much rather wait for VODs


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


XD
As much as I love SCII, to me, SCI > SCII and life > SCII therefore SCI = life, but, ya, would much rather wait for VODs










Your logic is flawed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Your logic is flawed.


I know, its supposed to be a joke XD since life != SC1 because they have different values so to speak


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *BigFan*   Which episode was that with the nuke? You don't see them used much, so, it's always interesting to see nuke play







  
   
 You Tube  



 
 Just watched it... so funny!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8zcSjDBAM

Just watched it... so funny!


Nice, thanks, +REP


----------



## CramComplex

LOL...wow even though the replay is old...still SOOOOOOOOOOOO funny LOL gotta love that IdrA BM~


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


LOL...wow even though the replay is old...still SOOOOOOOOOOOO funny LOL gotta love that IdrA BM~


lol, who hates his BM? I know I don't XD No work tonight? If not, maybe we can get a game going if you are still up in another hour or two


----------



## Olives

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8zcSjDBAM

Just watched it... so funny!


Haha yeah it is i just watched it. lol cannot really believe that rush nuke really works


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Olives*


Haha yeah it is i just watched it. lol cannot really believe that rush nuke really works


Well, gotta consider that other than spores, Z needs to tech to lair for overseers, so, if you can rush to nukes, you can do some major damage and then win with a strong timing push


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, who hates his BM? I know I don't XD No work tonight? If not, maybe we can get a game going if you are still up in another hour or two










Alright but my hands are crapped out 'coz its damn too cold. ~__~;


----------



## zazzn

yes I`ve done bane drops but they take too long since drop takes for ever, and takes a ton of gas. I use it for later game but usually i just go greater spier instead as soon as the hive is done so i can get fast broods which are much more usefull and cost effective.... banes with broods is god... against doom it forces vikings at which time i switch to ultras which owns since viks are useless again.

it really depends on the game IMO... btw I had a 2500+ guy try to nuke rush me and he did get one off but killed virtually nothing since

I scouted the ghost acad

he then went 8 rax which was a pia, but i caught him with my banes many times and the high yield..

here is the number one tip of the day for zerg.

expand, and expand again. why?

you will always loose a base to terran or protoss push because they are so hard to beat.... So expecting that I always have another one up and running to move my drones to when the attack comes...

after the attack and I kill the army itÂ´s time to rebulid faster then them and kill them which i always do.

When doom attacks if you hold his big push you win the game end of story.

Against toss doing 3 to 5 gate i always have a bunch of lings and a few banes ready so as soon as he leaves his base and is half way to my base, i run the lings in for a counter and take out the mineral pit. this makes it very easy to hold and kill since heÂ´s now very poor and canÂ´t make units. If he does warp in units at his base they are not reenforcing attacking you which gives you breathing room. Also if they are zees I use the banes to take out the blocking z at the choke and any other warping in zees.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


yes I`ve done bane drops but they take too long since drop takes for ever, and takes a ton of gas. I use it for later game but usually i just go greater spier instead as soon as the hive is done so i can get fast broods which are much more usefull and cost effective.... banes with broods is god... against doom it forces vikings at which time i switch to ultras which owns since viks are useless again.

it really depends on the game IMO... btw I had a 2500+ guy try to nuke rush me and he did get one off but killed virtually nothing since

I scouted the ghost acad

he then went 8 rax which was a pia, but i caught him with my banes many times and the high yield..

here is the number one tip of the day for zerg.

expand, and expand again. why?

you will always loose a base to terran or protoss push because they are so hard to beat.... So expecting that I always have another one up and running to move my drones to when the attack comes...

after the attack and I kill the army itÂ´s time to rebulid faster then them and kill them which i always do.

When doom attacks if you hold his big push you win the game end of story.

Against toss doing 3 to 5 gate i always have a bunch of lings and a few banes ready so as soon as he leaves his base and is half way to my base, i run the lings in for a counter and take out the mineral pit. this makes it very easy to hold and kill since heÂ´s now very poor and canÂ´t make units. If he does warp in units at his base they are not reenforcing attacking you which gives you breathing room. Also if they are zees I use the banes to take out the blocking z at the choke and any other warping in zees.


Yes, I meant late game bane drops









I haven't played against doom in over 2 months, so, I have no idea how his big attacks used to be because back when I played him, I used to play much worse







I would think a T who's 4 or 5 gating would have a lot of units to defend against so more units at your base the better, but, I agree, if you can take down his zealot and run the lings into his base, with barely any probes, it's gg


----------



## poroboszcz

Do you guys use custom hotkeys? I'm going to reassign backspace to ` for faster switching between nexi and change immortal to r. Not sure about anything else. Maybe reassign weapon and armor upgrades somewhere around 7 which is my hotkey for forge.

Also anyone here using grid layout?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I haven't played against doom in over 2 months, so, I have no idea how his big attacks used to be because back when I played him, I used to play much worse







I would think a T who's 4 or 5 gating would have a lot of units to defend against so more units at your base the better, but, I agree, if you can take down his zealot and run the lings into his base, with barely any probes, it's gg










So T can x-gate now, has zealots and probes? And banelings are now good against protoss? God, the patch must have changed a lot.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Do you guys use custom hotkeys? I'm going to reassign backspace to ` for faster switching between nexi and change immortal to r. Not sure about anything else. Maybe reassign weapon and armor upgrades somewhere around 7 which is my hotkey for forge.

Also anyone here using grid layout?

So T can x-gate now, has zealots and probes? And banelings are now good against protoss? God, the patch must have changed a lot.


I started using grid layout, like it, seems complex XD That T was a typo, should've been P







As for banes, he meant to get rid of the zealot and run slings into his base, otherwise, it'll be 1 slings for 1 zealot for a while and he'll be able to warp in units to help. Hopefully, that clears things up


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8zcSjDBAM

Just watched it... so funny!


Recently HomerJ joked after an Idra rage that "f*** this game" is the new gg. I thought that was funny so I used it once after a guy beat me with cheese. I like to emulate my heroes.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I honestly think idra's gg is the best way to motivate yourself to get better after loosing.


----------



## Sainesk

idrA's playing Clide today right? should be interesting...


----------



## yks

holy crap that julyzerg zvz on LT was pretty nail biting


----------



## DoomDash

Zazzn you said in the chat channel last time you played me you started winning, I guess if you call 1:1 starting to win







.


----------



## CramComplex

damn guy...IdrA vs Clide was awesome!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Too bad Clide got defeated but damn the defense on that Terran...

AWWWWW CLIDE lost...damn...wait is he crying? Nevermind...oh well...was rooting for him but he had to face NaDa w/c I was rooting too for...damn


----------



## poroboszcz

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Now I'm even more convinced he just let Jinro win, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12006663*
> Now I'm even more convinced he just let Jinro win, lol.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I think it was just the map. Horrible macro map for Zerg


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12006685*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was just the map. Horrible macro map for Zerg


^ This...IdrA did state the maps are a bit of a problem with him so I doubt he let Jinro win


----------



## yks

Idra vs Clide:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Horrible game. It was just a Build Order Counter

Mutas vs Rauder/Hellion... not a good match


----------



## DoomDash

oh clide.


----------



## nlsthzn

Another 12 hours before my shift ends and I can get home to watch today's matches... then right after I will watch tomorrow's... so long to wait.... T_T


----------



## thiru

What is this I don't even...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK-8tEpVzOg&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPWb3ye6PN4&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## CramComplex

WTH...is this guy for real? Why does he have a quake 3 game box at that shelf and a defenders logo and a couple of PS3 games....O__Oa


----------



## DoomDash

Quake 3 box ftw.


----------



## zazzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12006217*
> Zazzn you said in the chat channel last time you played me you started winning, I guess if you call 1:1 starting to win
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .












bane drops are expnesive and let doom get away with making like no turrets.


----------



## poroboszcz

Corruptors are so underused in ZvT. It's amazing how most zergs opt for mutas, which can actually do damage and provide map control, while you can get corruptors which are absolutely useless and bring no benefit whatsoever. Corruptors in fact make banelings look cost efficient in ZvP.

Edit: Now my post makes no sense because the zerg above me just edited his post which was previously saying how he switches from mutas to corruptors after forcing turrets from terran Oo

http://i.imgur.com/PxaUW.jpg


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12009358*
> Edit: Now my post makes no sense because the zerg above me just edited his post which was previously saying how he switches from mutas to corruptors after forcing turrets from terran Oo


By going corrupters he means he goes Broodlords eventually.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12009455*
> By going corrupters he means he goes Broodlords eventually.


He was specifically talking about the midgame, how he can't afford bling drops without 4 bases, but going mutas into corruptors is the way to go. No wonder he edited.


----------



## DoomDash

10 wins away from ghost icon.

Going no where slow as hell in ladder lol. Seems like all I get are TvT and TvZ. P's must be hiding.


----------



## Gigalisk

Yeha dude all i get is PvP, or PvZ. I never look forward to PvT anyway. Triple M kills me.


----------



## BigFan

wow, this thread is dead atm


----------



## Katana

Quick question; earlier, jediwin helped me learn MMM, and to do so we did a 1v1 AI medium, him spectating. During the game, he was able to pause several times to berate me on not creating SCVs; I was wondering how I'd be able to do that for a friend of mine? When I spectated him, I opened the menu and there wasn't anything to pause. I figured I would need to enable it somewhere, but I'm not sure where.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Quick question; earlier, jediwin helped me learn MMM, and to do so we did a 1v1 AI medium, him spectating. During the game, he was able to pause several times to berate me on not creating SCVs; I was wondering how I'd be able to do that for a friend of mine? When I spectated him, I opened the menu and there wasn't anything to pause. I figured I would need to enable it somewhere, but I'm not sure where.


Interesting, I would've thought you can still pause from spec or you know actually, did you become a ref? Likely you can pause then


----------



## DoomDash

Bad manner proxy attempt.. very bad manner.


----------



## thiru

You Tube  



 
lol


----------



## BigFan

Interesting bug, seems to be mostly about the start of the game and scouting but don't think it'll affect the game as much as the hidden pylon on shakuras


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Interesting bug, seems to be mostly about the start of the game and scouting but don't think it'll affect the game as much as the hidden pylon on shakuras










Makes cheesing on LT more possible though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Makes cheesing on LT more possible though.


I see, ok, you make a valid point


----------



## BigFan

Some people can be plain odd with strats. Played a TvsP on scrap station. Guy decided to make an exp at the gold(fine and dandy since it works sometimes), but, goes for an only zealot army(fine but you need sentries before charge). I decide to attack since I had cc and before he gets charge and catch him as he's researching it. He holds on enough to get it but can't hold back my force, so, I win XD He was a random player, so, my guess is he doesn't get enough experience with P due to also playing T/Z


----------



## Allenssmart

i just got destroyed by some diamond guy. i'm bronze lol. didnt stand a chance. good practice though.


----------



## l337sft

Such a good game. http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskySta.../1/Nn5I7W3zR98


----------



## DoomDash

Finally got my ghost portrait, and ended the day +3 wins over where I started. Some crazy games today, and lots of them. Had 4 Zergs in a row after vdek cursed me, and I lost 3/4.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Finally got my ghost portrait, and ended the day +3 wins over where I started. Some crazy games today, and lots of them. Had 4 Zergs in a row after vdek cursed me, and I lost 3/4.


Well, what can I say? Zs rule







These Zs were macro zergs? I can only presume so when the difference in score was double in the one I checkedXD


----------



## Allenssmart

finally a buff for terran! now i can see where a zerg player spawns on lost temple THROUGH THE FOG OF WAR! YAY!

  
 You Tube


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


finally a buff for terran! now i can see where a zerg player spawns on lost temple THROUGH THE FOG OF WAR! YAY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDUS3...layer_embedded


lol, if you go back one page you will see this has already been posted...







AND I would like to just say that an "advantage" like this is a disadvantage to the beautiful game of SC2 and should be fixed ASAP...


----------



## yks

GSL Code A/S on right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12016070*
> GSL Code A/S on right now.


Now? Really, why so early? :S

^^Its not a buff because it's a bug and will be fixed soon enough. Aside from helping one in performing cheese without having to scout the base, it's pretty useless since it doesn't give any more info


----------



## yks

The tastosis jokes are sooooooooooo FUNNY today, idk why.

i kept laughing every 5 mins or so.


----------



## nlsthzn

Busy watching the GSL while I have only watched the first two games of yesterday's matches... arrrggg.... so wish I could have finished it first...


----------



## BigFan

Watching the terran and protoss release trailers, I can't help but notice how powerful T used to be. I mean banshees used to do splash damage, battlecrusiers used to have the plasma area, there used to be the cobra, reapers had demolition charge, etc.... Such cools abilities, I get that they might be OP, but, why not reduce the splash or make them more expensive to make up for their firepower. I guess they were worried someone will mass reapers and then walk into an opponents base and use demolition charge near their cc and vital structures. It would've been cool to try and use them against units as in draw units in or make them withdraw, so many possible strats with just this charge









Edit: Just noticed that thors had an area attack with their cannons compared to the single structure/unit currently, guess that explains why I thought they did splash


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12012547*
> 
> 
> Bad manner proxy attempt.. very bad manner.


Lol, WTH.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12012820*
> Interesting bug, seems to be mostly about the start of the game and scouting but don't think it'll affect the game as much as the hidden pylon on shakuras


Seems more like a useful map feature rather than a bug.







Also how does bug on Shakuras affects the game? It doesn't in the slightest. This is actually quite big.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12016613*
> Lol, WTH.
> 
> Seems more like a useful map feature rather than a bug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also how does bug on Shakuras affects the game? It doesn't in the slightest. This is actually quite big.


Invisible scout?


----------



## poroboszcz

I mean, sure it's potentially exploitable, but I can't see it being significant in the actual game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12016613*
> Lol, WTH.
> 
> Seems more like a useful map feature rather than a bug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also how does bug on Shakuras affects the game? It doesn't in the slightest. This is actually quite big.


lol, well, since, I'm not 100% Z anymore, I don't plan on thumbing it down but I think the Shakuras bug affects the game because you can place a pylon there and use it to wrap units. Far as I recall, I *don't* think you can target the pylon to destroy it but I could be wrong


----------



## CramComplex

Damn guy...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



oGsMC destroys ST_Rainbow...holy crap...now that guy is scary!

Well this sucks...damn...Jinro almost had that game but he was against last season's 2nd placer...damn



Oh here we go with JINRO! Damn this game is early!


----------



## nlsthzn

Jinro game... wow... simply wow!


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;12017102*
> Jinro game... wow... simply wow!





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



QQ He contained too hard


----------



## nlsthzn

Jinro second game ... even more WOW!!!


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;12017325*
> Jinro second game ... even more WOW!!!


Holy wow that was amazing...


----------



## CramComplex

HOLY...wow...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I think he won it with the 3rd expansion with only SCVs on GAS


----------



## yks

I told you doom, mwarren.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



tanks in tvp


----------



## yellowtoblerone

....................

it's like.. whenever the gsl is on, I'm busy.


----------



## yks

Finally we are now in the Round of 8 doing a Best of 5, instead of Group Bo1's

Bracket:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



NesTea (Z) vs Choya (P)
MVP (T) vs Tester (P)
Idra (Z) vs Jinro (T)
NaDa (T) vs MarineKing (T)


----------



## CramComplex

**** **** **** **** **** ****...holy wow...just omg...WOW...this is EPIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


----------



## poroboszcz

Wow, I'm quite impressed.


----------



## nlsthzn

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Third Jinro.... WOW WOW WOW x 10


----------



## vdek

Extremely awesome last game.


----------



## yks

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I HATE MARINEKING

It should've been MC/Jinro

not MK/Jinro


----------



## CramComplex

Phew...the interviews were good...now I know what to do...BUT first! Probes and pylons probes and pylons probes and pylons~


----------



## yellowtoblerone

MC didn't make it?


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12017717*
> MC didn't make it?


Don't want to spoil it now do we?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



No, he did not


----------



## DoomDash

You know if they made the add-ons for Terran side selectable I actually think it would be a smart buff, and I think I could be happy for the most part with it to help in TvZ.


----------



## nlsthzn

What a way to end a 14 game winning streak, my net connection dropped QQ (and I was just playing my second match against a silver player too)


----------



## nlsthzn

Take's Homestory Cup http://tv.esl.eu/de/esltv_stream/stream/55-flv-proxy

Been going a while but there should still be a lot of action...


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












I'm literally laughing out loud at that


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Loooolll


----------



## DoomDash

This guy had more units / FF than I was used to. I could have easily lost this game and I was kinda surprised at how much he had.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## vdek

They're going to be streaming my game at the tourney right now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/btway


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


They're going to be streaming my game at the tourney right now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/btway


Is it over already? Who won? You made queens this time?


----------



## DoomDash

Apparently I was missing out on reddit sc2.

Bonus FF porn:

  
 You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

bnet why you lock


----------



## vdek

Aww well I won my first match up, lost the next 2 match ups so I got eliminated. Format was double elimination/Bo3 and I got 3 ZvZs :/

I need to practice more for next time, but tournament was really fun. Met lots of cool fellow Starcraft nerds there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Aww well I won my first match up, lost the next 2 match ups so I got eliminated. Format was double elimination/Bo3 and I got 3 ZvZs :/

I need to practice more for next time, but tournament was really fun. Met lots of cool fellow Starcraft nerds there.


Better luck next time.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Better luck next time.


Yeah I'll practice for real for the next one. I barely practiced at all this time. I was hoping for more ZvTs and ZvPs though this time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I was hoping for more ZvTs


I bet you were cough banes cough







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1869252598

Seems like people like my obvious post, but please like it so Blizzard looks!


----------



## vdek

argh I got 9 pooled + spine crawlered in one of my games which was annoying :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


argh I got 9 pooled + spine crawlered in one of my games which was annoying :/


Isn't that your own dirty strat?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Isn't that your own dirty strat?


lol. Nice idea, don't see why it can't be implemented









@vdek Well, you win some, you lose some, just practice and you'll better next time. ZvsZ are intensive game







BTW, how did jedi do?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol. Nice idea, don't see why it can't be implemented









@vdek Well, you win some, you lose some, just practice and you'll better next time. ZvsZ are intensive game







BTW, how did jedi do?










I remember saying that to Jidi I think like a month ago or two ( or was it Cory? ), and he was like: "Wow I never thought of that, good idea". I thought about it my first few days.


----------



## DoomDash

11-4 in my last 15 games ^^.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Isn't that your own dirty strat?


I like to do 11 overpool single spine crawler in some games. But uhh was not expecting that, was trying to play a standard macro game, QQ.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I like to do 11 overpool single spine crawler in some games. But uhh was not expecting that, was trying to play a standard macro game, QQ.


Sounds like karma







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I like to do 11 overpool single spine crawler in some games. But uhh was not expecting that, was trying to play a standard macro game, QQ.


lol, sounds like someone didn't scout early enough









Interesting old thread on battle.net: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1568012513
Good read for all Terrans who are working on macro, me included


----------



## Mwarren

Switched over to P. Toss fits my play style a lot better and I feel as though toss has a lot of untapped potential when it comes to build orders and play style. Sentry FF micro is really fun too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Switched over to P. Toss fits my play style a lot better and I feel as though toss has a lot of untapped potential when it comes to build orders and play style. Sentry FF micro is really fun too.


Permanently ?







Another one bites the dust?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Switched over to P. Toss fits my play style a lot better and I feel as though toss has a lot of untapped potential when it comes to build orders and play style. Sentry FF micro is really fun too.


nice. P is a fun race, less macro intensive than Z and the units are fun to play with. Colossi, ht for storm, sentries with ff, warpgates, dts, etc.... are such fantastic units/structures, sometimes it makes T/Z units feel plain XD Not to forget wrap prisms which aren't being utilized yet(imagine using them to transport a probe, then make cannons using its field as you make a pylon near cannons and build more cannons into the opponent's base XD)









^^Guessing he switched FT







BTW, Mwarren, if you need practice with your P, I don't mind playing some games with you, since, I need my practice as well XD


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Permanently ?







Another one bites the dust?


Yup, I just prefer protoss because its more micro oriented than the other races and the passive aggressive play style fits me better since when you play Terran you really have to be balls to the walls aggressive for the most part. I feel like toss has more variety too in what you can do and how you can play.

^^
Sounds good Bigfan


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Yup, I just prefer protoss because its more *micro oriented *than the other races and the passive aggressive play style fits me better since when you play Terran you really have to be balls to the walls aggressive for the most part. I feel like toss has more variety too in what you can do and how you can play.

^^
Sounds good Bigfan










You know, I loved WCIII to death. I played through the campaign like 5 times on medium and hard and thought the story was interesting and inspiring. I loved all the different spells, units, etc.... and this made the game unique. Favourite strat as undead used to be to research catapulets regenerate corpses then move in, dump the corpses and use the necromancer's raise dead spell on autocast then send in my units. I was able to overwhelm my opponents easily. I agree with you and this is the main reason I love P, the micro aspect is high and this is what I enjoy, maybe I should switch to P









/rave

Nice, not sure I'll be on tonight but maybe tommorrow during the day


----------



## EmMure

having the flu sucks massivly


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;12026410*
> having the flu sucks massivly


Well, just give it sometime. It'll get better









If anyone wants games, I'm on atm for a short time









Edit: nm, for some odd reason, I just played a game that was the laggest ever. I couldn't micro anything and ended up losing against a P player on Steppes of War even though all he did was make units and attack :/ Sad part is, I don't think it was anything on my end, net seems to be working fine and dandy atm, maybe it was on his end and then he thanked me for getting his 10th win for a portrait XD


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12022913*
> Aww well I won my first match up, lost the next 2 match ups so I got eliminated. Format was double elimination/Bo3 and I got 3 ZvZs :/
> 
> I need to practice more for next time, but tournament was really fun. Met lots of cool fellow Starcraft nerds there.


Better luck next time









@DoomDash -> Like the avvie, is that NaDa?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlsthzn;12026902*
> Better luck next time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @DoomDash -> Like the avvie, is that NaDa?


I believe it's boxer although if you look carefully, you'll notice his left ear(right from his perspective) is tall and looks elvish, so, maybe not. Likely a boxer elf XD


----------



## nlsthzn

I have to admit I struggle to know who is who... currently half the Koreans in GSL are either tall, skinny with emo hair, or tall, a bit more stocky built with emo hair... :/


----------



## yks

Its Lim Yo Hwan, aka Boxer.


----------



## vdek

This is pretty old, but still awesome:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0MzwiKfRvM[/ame]!


----------



## nlsthzn

I had wondered about the "So many banelings..." private joke


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12027287*
> Its Lim Yo Hwan, aka Boxer.


Correct.

My battle.net thread is now the third most popular thread on the forums.

Funny I get into masters and my w/l ratio goes up .6%

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches#filter=solo


----------



## nlsthzn

More than six ours and not a single post... :/


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I am awesome












hey doom are you using your blackwidow nowadays or your older keyboard?

just wondering because i'm in the market for a mechanical but wondering if I should avoid blues or not for SC...
(I know i'm only silver but I promise to get better once I'm satisfied with my achievement farming)

also when can we expect you to move to Korea and pursue your full time gaming career?

(p.s. you better get me one of those cool race figurines from the GSL if I come cheer for you...







)


----------



## Gigalisk

DOOM, if you go to Korea, and if i get stationed in Korea (Dec '11) we gotta hang out bro. I'll show you what a REAL military base looks like.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Correct.

My battle.net thread is now the third most popular thread on the forums.

Funny I get into masters and my w/l ratio goes up .6%

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...es#filter=solo


Yea if you sit and wait for all the good players to go to 2700+ the lower guys are cake lol.


----------



## Gigalisk

Just wanted to say i've got MANY new protoss replays , with some that give a loose understanding on how to beat TERRAN, which has been a problem for me and some other toss players.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Yea if you sit and wait for all the good players to go to 2700+ the lower guys are cake lol.


I didn't do any waiting







.

LOL I'm not going to korea guys. Maybe for vacation someday though :0.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlsthzn*


More than six ours and not a single post... :/











I know, thread is dying due to chat channels









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


LOL I'm not going to korea guys. Maybe for vacation someday though :0.


What? Impossible, you mentioned that it's your dream!


----------



## DoomDash

It is a dream, but not a realistic one right now.


----------



## Gigalisk

Yeah it will take a minute before the chat channels become REALLY popular.


----------



## vdek

Morrow vs. White-Ra starting in about 5-10 minutes here:
http://www.justin.tv/screddit#/w/767618960


----------



## DoomDash

Watching.

Last ladder game the Z was like, you can do some very quick stim marine splitting / kiting to banes off creep. I said " That's really hard to do right every time". He said "I know, I like my move click micro lol".

Even took out a macro hatch ( which I thought was a actual expansion, oh well ), and still lost. 
:'(.


----------



## DoomDash

This morrow vs white-ra game on metal has been pretty exciting. His transfusions are top notch!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Watching.

Last ladder game the Z was like, you can do some very quick stim marine splitting / kiting to banes off creep. I said " That's really hard to do right every time". He said "I know, I like my *move click micro lol*".

Even took out a macro hatch ( which I thought was a actual expansion, oh well ), and still lost. 
:'(.


XD XD
Well, its still better than having your opponent thank you for losing the game so that he'll get a portrait after the win


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


XD XD
Well, its still better than having your opponent thank you for losing the game so that he'll get a portrait after the win










did that happen to you?


----------



## Gigalisk

It happened to me.









EDIT: IN BRONZE.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


did that happen to you?


Yes, ZvsP yesterday on Steppes of War. Was pretty confident and decided to go pool first then roach warren. Expanded very late though and the game started lagging, so, I wasn't able to attack his pylon and zealots before he wrapped in some stalkers. He pushed into my base after taking out my exp which just finished and thanked me at that moment for getting his 10th win and a portrait. I did defend successful against the attack but had to use all my allocated resources, so, GG on the next big one :/ Simply put, getting late exp and not putting more crawlers due to the lack of units killed me


----------



## DoomDash

I got two TvZ's today on Steps of War... can't even remember the last time I got TvZ on steps... needless to say I like this map for TvZ and I won both.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Has the google ads win anyone over yet? I'm tempted to give single muslim .com a try. Way to go youtube.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12037819*
> Has the google ads win anyone over yet? I'm tempted to give single muslim .com a try. Way to go youtube.


nope, the ads haven't yet


----------



## zazzn

steps is the worse zerg map...
it's so close and the expand's are impossible to hold when you move in with tanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


steps is the worse zerg map... 
it's so close and the expand's are impossible to hold when you move in with tanks


Yeah its bad. I usually win it before tanks.. and I do scv marine push hah.

I really enjoyed this game, and my Protoss opponents build. For those of you still learning how to play TvP or PvT this is good on either side ( Both Masters ):


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


steps is the worse zerg map... 
it's so close and the expand's are impossible to hold when you move in with tanks


It's not even that, I got my warren before I even expanded and only laid down 2 crawlers. Basically, I screwed up my timings big time and the lag made it impossible to micro against his zealots and to prevent that pylon near my base :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah its bad. I usually win it before tanks.. and I do *scv marine push *hah.

I really enjoyed this game, and my Protoss opponents build. For those of you still learning how to play TvP or PvT this is good on either side ( Both Masters ):




I've never tried scv marine pushes although I really want to badly







Just seems like an easy win against Z, possibly P early game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


It's not even that, I got my warren before I even expanded and only laid down 2 crawlers. Basically, I screwed up my timings big time and the lag made it impossible to micro against his zealots and to prevent that pylon near my base :/

I've never tried scv marine pushes although I really want to badly







Just seems like an easy win against Z, possibly P early game










Meh, only on certain maps or against Zergs who don't know how to deal with it. On Steps you should do it though, its stupid good on steps.

Against Protoss, meh.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Meh, only on certain maps or against Zergs who don't know how to deal with it. On Steps you should do it though, its stupid good on steps.

Against Protoss, meh.


Thing is, I've never practiced it(timings) although I'm sure it's pretty easy to do. Was thinking about P mostly because they only get zealots until cc, so, with only melee units, it'll work although zealots have large hp


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thing is, I've never practiced it(timings) although I'm sure it's pretty easy to do. Was thinking about P mostly because they only get zealots until cc, so, with only melee units, it'll work although zealots have large hp










Problem with Protoss is zealots will just kill the SCV's super fast. Once you're left with MM you either take free shots from the Zealots, or take free shots from the Stalkers. Plus he could easily pull some probes to counter act the SCV's as well.

Zerg has a harder time because they have ALL weak melee early.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I've never tried scv marine pushes although I really want to badly







Just seems like an easy win against Z, possibly P early game










I had someone try that on me the other day in an FFA. I ended up pushing him back and killing him, but not without losing around 8 drones. Put me back economically the whole game and then lost to one of the other players who was just massing marine/thor. Of course I would have been ok because I was about to pop 8-10 infestors to MC/Fungal the thors/marines... But the ******* who I killed lifted his rax's, flew over my base, and said "Blue's got nothing but lings, kill him now"


----------



## rhed5

Was sick throughout the weekend







didn't get to see vdek in person. I heard allaboutyou won. How good was he in person vdek?


----------



## slytown

Just started playing today. Awesome. Hit me up for a skirmish. I need to get some games goin.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


Just started playing today. Awesome. Hit me up for a skirmish. I need to get some games goin.


Sly I notice in your sig you have your SC2 and Steam ID. You will need your 3-4 digit character code as well to have people add you. You can find it by highlighting your in game avatar at the battle.net menus.

Also take a look at the first page.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Was sick throughout the weekend







didn't get to see vdek in person. I heard allaboutyou won. How good was he in person vdek?


Aww that sucks. I ended up befriending the guy you were supposed to play against randomly, told him you were really good and might not show up, he was relieved.

I kept looking for an asian guy, but you never showed up









Allaboutyou was good, he played well. There will be VODs later, but the finals were epic. I think he changed his name also, forget what it is now.


----------



## slytown

Where's the character code?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


Where's the character code?


Highlight your avatar when you log into battle.net. Your person / character.


----------



## slytown

Thanks Doom. Any quick advice to start out. I've been going through the challenges to figure out Starcraft again. I haven't played RTS since Red Alert 2.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


Thanks Doom. Any quick advice to start out. I've been going through the challenges to figure out Starcraft again. I haven't played RTS since Red Alert 2.


The challenges are a pretty good basic idea... really though the first post in this thread has lots of newb guides. I recommend Day9, newbie tuesday #1 ( google ), and episode 132.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Was sick throughout the weekend







didn't get to see vdek in person. I heard allaboutyou won. How good was he in person vdek?


Disappointing, was wondering how far you'll get







Of course, get well, take care of yourself, always next year


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The challenges are a pretty good basic idea... really though the first post in this thread has lots of newb guides. I recommend Day9, newbie tuesday #1 ( google ), and episode 132.


Yea, I've been watching his MLG commentaries for a couple of weeks. They're pretty sweet. Do you use a notepad for all the enemy pairings or do you just stick with one or two types of units?


----------



## thiru

Enemy pairings?


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Enemy pairings?


Like using Marines against Zerglings.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


Like using Marines against Zerglings.


You kinda know all that stuff after a few games. Just focus on beating the opponent with MORE stuff.


----------



## thiru

[email protected] in the GSL.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12046516*
> [email protected] in the GSL.


?????


----------



## DoomDash

52% win / l ratio to 53% in 3 days! Let's see if I can keep this up!

Also, cory guess what? I randomly played xNsomal in a ladder match a week ago, and said I knew you. Today I was hanging around in my very old hang out place ( 1999-2001 BW days ), and I saw him in there. He asked me again if I knew you, and I said yep. He then said, and you know Nohunters ( the hang out channel ). I said yep..... and he said "Doom-?" which is my old BW SN. Yep...... Turns out he was MrPimp back them and I know him from long ago







. Small world we said.


----------



## slytown

Sometimes I see players in LANs spamming their keyboard really fast. What are they doing? It seems to happen at the beginning of play.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12046611*
> Sometimes I see players in LANs spamming their keyboard really fast. What are they doing? It seems to happen at the beginning of play.


Keeping their fingers warm and ready for when a battle takes place and the high apm and accuracy is needed.


----------



## DoomDash

If you have cold fingers you play soooo much worse.


----------



## CramComplex

Yeap...cold hands = bad hand | eye coordination, I'm getting a USB hand warmer at DealExtreme for around $5US with free shipping







so i can start moving up to Gold League...been playing a lot of co-op recently to get my timings down and practicing vs Very Hard AI...will see if I'm ready for Insane AI


----------



## thiru

How hard is beating an insane terran AI?


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12047151*
> How hard is beating an insane terran AI?


Not sure...AFAIK I got roflstomped several times when I played it and I had no internet.


----------



## slytown

And in the army battles they are hitting each unit back and forth while attacking the appropriate unit, right? On top of that hitting E, C, G, etc. for special attacks? I'm just trying to get a sense of what to work on technically.

It's hard to keep track of all the key strokes, but it looks like micro is mostly mouse pointing to maneuvar away, while macro battles are more keystroke oriented.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12047622*
> And in the army battles they are hitting each unit back and forth will attacking the appropriate unit, right? On top of that hitting E, C, G, etc. for special attacks? I'm just trying to get a sense of what to work on technically.
> 
> It's hard to keep track of all the key strokes, but it looks like micro is mostly mouse pointing to maneuvar away, while macro battles are more keystroke oriented.


Often when one side has a range advantage they will try to take advantage of it by staying one step beyond the opponent's range.

There aren't really macro or micro battles... you just try to multitask as best as you can.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12047151*
> How hard is beating an insane terran AI?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;12047167*
> Not sure...AFAIK I got roflstomped several times when I played it and I had no internet.


I wouldn't try beating any insane AI. I wouldn't say its impossible, but, they get more resources per SCV and fast building times. Also, I've heard the only way people won agains them was to cheese such as 6 pool, cannon contain, etc....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12046611*
> Sometimes I see players in LANs spamming their keyboard really fast. What are they doing? It seems to happen at the beginning of play.


Well, spamming at the bedinning of play raises your APM. Supposdly, it's to help you move as fast when you need it during the game but I'm not sure how much I buy that


----------



## DoomDash

I notice a big difference spamming. You just feel like your playing at a faster level... maybe it's just in my head but I really believe it helps.


----------



## Mwarren

You're not the only one. When I'm spamming I generally feel a lot sharper and focused. I stay on top of things and multitask much better too.


----------



## BigFan

Then maybe I'm the only one that doesn't see a difference XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12047907*
> You're not the only one. When I'm spamming I generally feel a lot sharper and focused. I stay on top of things and multitask much better too.


How goes Protoss?

traitor.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12048163*
> How goes Protoss?
> 
> traitor.










As time passes, looks like you'll be the only one playing T apart from some of us who are random


----------



## DoomDash

I guess I have the least self-respect.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12048270*
> I guess I have the least self-respect.


Apologize for playing that race!


----------



## falco216

IMO warming up your hands or spamming APM is a load of crap, I tried it a few times and kept messing up because I was slow on building drones because I had to move my hands to hit the key.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;12047134*
> Yeap...cold hands = bad hand | eye coordination, *I'm getting a USB hand warmer at DealExtreme for around $5US with free shipping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so i can start moving up to Gold League*...been playing a lot of co-op recently to get my timings down and practicing vs Very Hard AI...will see if I'm ready for Insane AI


You're joking right? I never warm up, never spam APM, play in a very cold room at about 18c and I'm high diamond, almost masters, in 1v1 I'm rank #16,252 worldwide, rank #5,530 in North America.

:|


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049786*
> IMO warming up your hands or spamming APM is a load of crap, I tried it a few times and kept messing up because I was slow on building drones because I had to move my hands to hit the key.
> 
> You're joking right? I never warm up, never spam APM, play in a very cold room at about 18c and I'm high diamond, almost masters, in 1v1 I'm rank #16,252 worldwide, rank #5,530 in North America.
> 
> :|


Well good for you...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049786*
> IMO warming up your hands or spamming APM is a load of crap, I tried it a few times and kept messing up because I was slow on building drones because I had to move my hands to hit the key.
> 
> You're joking right? I never warm up, never spam APM, play in a very cold room at about 18c and I'm high diamond, almost masters, in 1v1 I'm rank #16,252 worldwide, rank #5,530 in North America.
> 
> :|


Cool story bro.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049786*
> IMO warming up your hands or spamming APM is a load of crap, I tried it a few times and kept messing up because I was slow on building drones because I had to move my hands to hit the key.
> 
> You're joking right? I never warm up, never spam APM, play in a very cold room at about 18c and I'm high diamond, almost masters, in 1v1 I'm rank #16,252 worldwide, rank #5,530 in North America.
> 
> :|


I dunno, while I agree spamming doesn't help in my case, I think playing with really cold hands does affect your game


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12049804*
> Well good for you...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12049808*
> Cool story bro.


Lol, got any proof that it helps even a little bit?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12049842*
> I dunno know, while I agree spaming doesn't help in my case, I think playing with really cold hands does affect your game


My hands are always warm enough by the time I need it just by playing normally, the warmth scales linearly, so does the APM required.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049849*
> Lol, got any proof that it helps even a little bit?
> 
> My hands are always warm enough by the time I need it just by playing normally, the warmth scales linearly, so does the APM required.


I need proof that warming up cold hands will warm them up?


----------



## DoomDash

Have you ever tried to use a tool while your hands are freezing cold? Wait... why am I bothering.. this is common sense.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12049877*
> I need proof that warming up cold hands will warm them up?


Nope, I said I wanted proof that warm hands improve your Starcraft 2 play. This is a video game not a sport that requires your entire body.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12049892*
> Have you ever tried to use a tool while your hands are freezing cold? Wait... why am I bothering.. this is common sense.


Is it? Proof?

By the way, my hands are burning hot at mid game just by playing normally at >150apm.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049901*
> Nope, I said I wanted proof that warm hands improve your Starcraft 2 play. This is a video game not a sport that requires your entire body.


Yeah, it requires your hands that's it. Cold hands tremble and aren't as quick for some people. If that doesn't happen to you, good for you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049901*
> Nope, I said I wanted proof that warm hands improve your Starcraft 2 play. This is a video game not a sport that requires your entire body.
> 
> Is it? Proof?


Do you think we have scientists that conduct tests on APM spamming and warm hands? I mean really what do you expect us to explain to you besides things that are common sense? I'd say since you see half the Korean pro scene bringing hand warmers to the tournaments its not just for fun.

This is not a sport that requires your entire body... but it requires your hands... which is what we are talking about.

You have like the worst arguments ever.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12049935*
> Do you think we have scientists that conduct tests on APM spamming and warm hands? I mean really what do you expect us to explain to you besides things that are common sense? I'd say since you see half the Korean pro scene bringing hand warmers to the tournaments its not just for fun.
> 
> This is not a sport that requires your entire body... but it requires your hands... which is what we are talking about.
> 
> You have like the worst arguments ever.


I require evidence before believing anything. Why is it common sense? In South Korea it's "common sense" according to them that fans can suffocate you by "stealing your oxygen".

The burden of proof is on you for your claim, any advantage is probably negligible.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049956*
> I require evidence before believing anything. Why is it common sense? In South Korea it's "common sense" according to them that fans can suffocate you by "stealing your oxygen".
> 
> The burden of proof is on you for your claim, any advantage is probably negligible.


Sigh. I used to play Tekken at the arcades all the time, and when I went during winter I had to rub my hands together or wait awhile before I could play until they were warm. You can look up that your hands work better when warm, period. Tekken was unplayable with cold hands, and SCII works very similar.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12049973*
> Sigh. I used to play Tekken at the arcades all the time, and when I went during winter I had to rub my hands together or wait awhile before I could play until they were warm. You can look up that your hands work better when warm, period. Tekken was unplayable with cold hands, and SCII works very similar.


I never said cold hands didn't affect your play. I've never played Tekken, I assume it starts off extremely fast. Starcraft 2's speed scales linearly, your hands will warm up through normal play, like I said before, my hands are burning hot at mid game with >150APM with no spam.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12050000*
> I never said cold hands didn't affect your play. I've never played Tekken, I assume it starts off extremely fast. Starcraft 2's speed scales linearly, your hands will warm up through normal play, like I said before, my hands are burning hot at mid game with >150APM with no spam.


Well cool, maybe you have a super awesome body gifted to play SCII w/ out spamming.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12049956*
> I require evidence before believing anything. Why is it common sense? In South Korea it's "common sense" according to them that fans can suffocate you by "stealing your oxygen".
> 
> The burden of proof is on you for your claim, any advantage is probably negligible.


I don't particularly care to convince you.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12050007*
> Well cool, maybe you have a super awesome body gifted to play SCII w/ out spamming.


Lol, my point was that it doesn't make that big of a difference even if it does, he was talking about moving up to gold league by getting a hand warmer.

Not sure if serious...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


Lol, my point was that it doesn't make that big of a difference even if it does, he was talking about moving up to gold league by getting a hand warmer.

Not sure if serious...


I play @ Diamond level with out warm hands, it does make a big difference. I said Tekken was unplayable because of cold hands, and SCII is also super hard to play with cold hands.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


Lol, my point was that it doesn't make that big of a difference even if it does, he was talking about moving up to gold league by getting a hand warmer.

Not sure if serious...


APM doesn't affect anything under diamond in the first place.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12050052*
> APM doesn't affect anything under diamond in the first place.


Thank you, my entire point, and even if it does, anything above that is _probably_ negligible.


----------



## vdek

There might not be any qualitative tests done to prove that apm spamming increases your performance, however my anecdotal experience tends to suggest that it helps a lot. On games where I APM spam in the beginning, my average apm throughout the game is about 20-30% higher. Mind you, this is tested through sc2gears which ignores the first 2-3 minutes of apm spamming.


----------



## -iceblade^

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


Thank you, my entire point, and even if it does, anything above that is _probably_ negligible.


sounds like you need to head over to gamereplays.org.

PM a guy called avilo and he'll explain it all to you, or just post this same question.

APM exercises are very very useful.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

vdek, if I see you on the streets in the next week I'll be sure to wave hello. Visiting the folks in Flushing. At the airport atm.

Do you guys in Diamond/plat see a lot of matchmaking problems? I'm still in plat, but I've beaten 7-10 straight diamonds, yet lost a few to plat and gold. It's almost seem people in diamond shouldn't be there yet.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12050338*
> vdek, if I see you on the streets in the next week I'll be sure to wave hello. Visiting the folks in Flushing. At the airport atm.
> 
> Do you guys in Diamond/plat see a lot of matchmaking problems? I'm still in plat, but I've beaten 7-10 straight diamonds, yet lost a few to plat and gold. It's almost seem people in diamond shouldn't be there yet.


I'm sure lots of Diamond players got there by 4 gating, banshee rushing, 3 rax, ect... but when the game doesn't fall into their plan they have no transition out of it / no end game.


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns my macro suckd i still won fairly easyly


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


vdek, if I see you on the streets in the next week I'll be sure to wave hello. Visiting the folks in Flushing. At the airport atm.

Do you guys in Diamond/plat see a lot of matchmaking problems? I'm still in plat, but I've beaten 7-10 straight diamonds, yet lost a few to plat and gold. It's almost seem people in diamond shouldn't be there yet.


Just means you gotta play more for the MMR system to correctly place you. But you can't be losing to plat/golds it is unacceptable, regardless of S-Division Platinum losses and F-Division Diamond Wins.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm sure lots of Diamond players got there by 4 gating, banshee rushing, 3 rax, ect... but when the game doesn't fall into their plan they have no transition out of it / no end game.


All I do is 4gate. PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## EmMure

im very surprised i won this game
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...istering-sands


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


IMO warming up your hands or spamming APM is a load of crap, I tried it a few times and kept messing up because I was slow on building drones because I had to move my hands to hit the key.

You're joking right? I never warm up, never spam APM, play in a very cold room at about 18c and I'm high diamond, almost masters, in 1v1 I'm rank #16,252 worldwide, rank #5,530 in North America.

:|


Some say it isn't some say it is...I say it is since I do review my games and I do experience it, same goes when I play Tekken in tournaments, my hands freeze due to too much adrenaline...also I don't spam to get my APM up :/


----------



## EmMure

Cram get on im bored


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EmMure*


Cram get on im bored


~__~;; fine ~__~;;


----------



## zazzn

I don't warm hands... In fact I don't care if they are cold hot or dirty.

I just need to warm up my self to get in tune with the game and remember bulid orders, times, triggers. After a few games, I'm usually on the ball.

BTW doom i'm catching up 2400 masters...

Had some horrible losses today, especially 2 zvz's where I should have won.... Let the guy come back on 1 hatch :/


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just means you gotta play more for the MMR system to correctly place you. But you can't be losing to plat/golds it is unacceptable, regardless of S-Division Platinum losses and F-Division Diamond Wins.

All I do is 4gate. PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


New plat and gold players do things out of the ordinary that scouting don't do justice. It's like they go 4 gate then expand without attacking, or switches something else up that screws me over. And oh the dreaded double 10 and 12 gate with zealot rush. I still have a hard time defending that one.

4 gate however, is so easy to defend against as toss opponent.


----------



## vdek

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *yks*   All I do is 4gate. PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  
   
 You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zazzn*


I don't warm hands... In fact I don't care if they are cold hot or dirty.

I just need to warm up my self to get in tune with the game and remember bulid orders, times, triggers. After a few games, I'm usually on the ball.

BTW doom i'm catching up 2400 masters...

Had some horrible losses today, especially 2 zvz's where I should have won.... *Let the guy come back on 1 hatch* :/


Well, it happens, we all make mistakes, it's what you pick up from it that's important









^^Can't believe you guys are arguing about cold hands. While I agree that I find it more difficult to play in my case, I think it also depends on the individual. Also, doesn't anyone on here sleep anymore? XD


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Also, doesn't anyone on here sleep anymore? XD


I'm at work


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I saw a great phoenix rush build in a game I played against a master league guy. The 3rd phoenix popped at 6:33 and he had 3 zealots plugging the narrow corridor by his ramp. He flew straight into my base and his phoenix micro was brutally good. My queens were quickly killed and the few hydras I got out didn't last long either. He managed to pump out some sentries and two more phoenix while attacking. How does zerg deal with this? On a big map you usually can't even scout it in time to do anything about it. Since the new patch came out the dilemma I keep facing against good toss players is I prepare for phoenix and instead get hit with a big ground push around 7:30. Or I prepare for a ground push, and get hit with phoenix instead. If I see toss is squatting on one base I know something bad is about to come my way, I just can't see what it is until it's too late, except perhaps on smaller two-player maps where I can get an overlord into position.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I'm at work










lol, indeed. My point was mostly directed at those that stay up till 6 to watch GSL(1, 2 and 3 I believe, not 4 which is earlier). Better to sleep and wake up early for GSL than vice-versa


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I saw a great phoenix rush build in a game I played against a master league guy. The 3rd phoenix popped at 6:33 and he had 3 zealots plugging the narrow corridor by his ramp. He flew straight into my base and his phoenix micro was brutally good. My queens were quickly killed and the few hydras I got out didn't last long either. He managed to pump out some sentries and two more phoenix while attacking. How does zerg deal with this? On a big map you usually can't even scout it in time to do anything about it. Since the new patch came out the dilemma I keep facing against good toss players is I prepare for phoenix and instead get hit with a big ground push around 7:30. Or I prepare for a ground push, and get hit with phoenix instead. If I see toss is squatting on one base I know something bad is about to come my way, I just can't see what it is until it's too late, except perhaps on smaller two-player maps where I can get an overlord into position.


2 things come to mind, either try to get an OL in fast or make lots of spores keeping OLs within their range and focus on ground. This'll allow you to be prepared for a ground attack as well as guard against phenoix attacks







Of course, money could be used for something else, but, at least you are protected against phenoixes


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


2 things come to mind, either try to get an OL in fast or make lots of spores keeping OLs within their range and focus on ground. This'll allow you to be prepared for a ground attack as well as guard against phenoix attacks







Of course, money could be used for something else, but, at least you are protected against phenoixes










Getting an ovi in to scout is fine on a small two-player map. On the big 4-player maps zerg has problems. Spawning in a cross position is not so desirable for zerg anymore. In that situation I'm thinking perhaps zerg has to send roaches early. If toss has phoenixes out he'll get free kills on your roaches, but what else can you do? You can't wait for the ovis to fly that far.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Getting an ovi in to scout is fine on a small two-player map. On the big 4-player maps zerg has problems. Spawning in a cross position is not so desirable for zerg anymore. In that situation I'm thinking perhaps zerg has to send roaches early. If toss has phoenixes out he'll get free kills on your roaches, but what else can you do? You can't wait for the ovis to fly that far.


Pheonix's take a long time to kill roaches. If all he has are zealots, you will win if you do a roach push IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Vdek laddered yesterday! Everyone give him some congrats!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Pheonix's take a long time to kill roaches. If all he has are zealots, you will win if you do a roach push IMO.


I was trying to get away from that roach rush mentality. Unfortunately Blizzard is pushing zerg back in that direction.


----------



## DoomDash

I like what HD did for the cliff. I think it might be better with a Nydus! Pretty cool game.

  
 You Tube


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I'm at work










I have work at 7 AM.

So are Zerg the most limited strategy wise? Are most plays based around roach maxxed and zerglings to supplement?


----------



## ddd778

Yeha Zerg really are limited in my opinion.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ddd778*


Yeha Zerg really are limited in my opinion.


Its not so much that Zerg players are *limited *as we are *reactive*. Zerg players cannot just blindly go for, say, roaches vs terran or blindly go mass lings vs protoss etc..., and actually legitimately justify it. There is just too much at risk in the first 10 minutes of the game or so (or until lair tech) for making a lot of units of a certain type.

compare this with terran that can just say: im going blue flame hellion harass vs zerg, and it IS going to work unless the zerg counters it somehow. Or 2 barrax pressure, or 2gate for protoss etc..

Even the 7rr vs protoss that puts pressure on the opponent for the Zerg doesnt always work depending on what the protoss is doing (forge, wall off, proxygate, forcefields etc..)

But i do love how zerg can be easily prepared for ANYTHING and defeat it with the right scouting information and the correct basic response. (ex: see double gas early, no lings or roach warren, then make lotsa queens and tech to lair etc..)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12053391*
> Vdek laddered yesterday! Everyone give him some congrats!


XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12054986*
> Its not so much that Zerg players are *limited* as we are *reactive*. Zerg players cannot just blindly go for, say, roaches vs terran or blindly go mass lings vs protoss etc..., and actually legitimately justify it. There is just too much at risk in the first 10 minutes of the game or so (or until lair tech) for making a lot of units of a certain type.
> 
> compare this with terran that can just say: im going blue flame hellion harass vs zerg, and it IS going to work unless the zerg counters it somehow. Or 2 barrax pressure, or 2gate for protoss etc..
> 
> Even the 7rr vs protoss that puts pressure on the opponent for the Zerg doesnt always work depending on what the protoss is doing (forge, wall off, proxygate, forcefields etc..)
> 
> But i do love how zerg can be easily prepared for ANYTHING and defeat it with the right scouting information and the correct basic response. (ex: see double gas early, no lings or roach warren, then make lotsa queens and tech to lair etc..)


pretty much. As someone who used to play Z exclusively till a little over a month ago when i switched to random, i never entered a game with a plan. I had the basic structure against T/P: exp early(15 exp), get pool, bane nest(if T) or roach warren(if P) then just tech up and droning up. I would place 2 crawlers in exp and 1-2 in main and then drone up until I felt it was the right time to make units. I see opponent move out, I make units and use the drones to attack while they morph. He goes mass stalkers, I go for slings+mutas, he goes MMM, I go slings+banes, etc.... Zerg is a fun race to play, although, they can be really intensive due to spawn larvae, spread creep, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

Thread is dead today, glad I went out.


----------



## ThumperSD

I can honestly say I play better with warm hands. My fingers feel stiff when they are cold. Spamming probably helps too but not nearly as much as having warm hands imo.

I havent played SC2 in a week. Been busy busy


----------



## DoomDash

How to beat 1-1-1:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcPlyi8ysbA&feature=sub[/ame]


----------



## Mwarren

Back to terran, just needed a break from SC2. Toss and Zerg don't feel aggressive enough for me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Thread is dead today, glad I went out.


lol, where've you been? Thread has been dead for a while, nothing close to back in Sept where we were having a lot more conversations :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Back to terran, just needed a break from SC2. Toss and Zerg don't feel aggressive enough for me.










Yes, Z isn't fully aggressive early on, but, you can definitely be as aggressive with Toss as Terran


----------



## DoomDash

I wasn't here in Sept, and maybe it was dead but I brought life back into it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wasn't here in Sept, and maybe it was dead but I brought life back into it.


Actually, you've misread what I wrote. I said it was alive back in Sept and now its dead, not vice-versa XD Having said that, I thought you were around in Sept, I think I was, but, not 100% positive


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Actually, you've misread what I wrote. I said it was alive back in Sept and now its dead, not vice-versa XD Having said that, I thought you were around in Sept, I think I was, but, not 100% positive










I was nvm.

Diamond players are so easy apparently. I just beat two Diamond T's as Z :O.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Diamond players are so easy apparently. I just beat two Diamond T's as Z :O.


Well, if you've got your macro down and I would think you do as someone who grinds a lot and is in the master league, then playing Z shouldn't be crazy different than playing T or P for that matter









For those who decide to make this thread their home and not venture into the outside OCN world, here's an interesting story: http://www.overclock.net/video-game-...-released.html
Ironic that Activision took it down but we found an alternative, enjoy!


----------



## Allenssmart

anybody up for some late night 3 am sc2??


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


anybody up for some late night 3 am sc2??


GSL games start in about 40 minutes, going to be watching that, heh.


----------



## CramComplex

Hot damn...just in time for the second game...dammnit!!!!


----------



## EmMure

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...s-jungle-basin

EPIC 5MIN MATCH I JUST WON


----------



## CramComplex

OMG is this real...is this really happening?

Jinro winning 2 games to 1 against IdrA?


----------



## EmMure

idra is a scrub


----------



## vdek

Lol crazy games today


----------



## poroboszcz

Oh damn...

Even Brother Mack's prayers didn't help. I actually hoped for different results in both sets.


----------



## DoomDash

Marine King Interview.

Quote:



the first part of the interview:










*#1 "MarineKing's" thoughts on Terran*

*What are your thoughts about rumors of a possible marine nerf?*
Marines are strong and because of that they are being used as core units in every matchup. No other unit in Terran arsenal can fulfill their role, thus nerfing them even slightly will have a great impact on the balance of the game.

*No interest in becoming the MarauderKing?*
If I got interested on other units, marines would be jealous.

*What are your thoughts about the Terran's threepeat second place(on GSL)?*
I think the three second place finishes were due to opposing players' great skill, and not because Terran race is destined to be like that.

*They say certain spawning positions on certain maps are absolutely favorable to Terrans. Agree?*
Close positions on Metalopolis and Lost Temple is 90% win against Zerg, but on the other hand, cross positions favors Zerg just as much. The advantage/disadvantage situation depends very heavily on rush distances.

*Most people think Terran is imba, do you think the Terran race has its disadvantages?*
I cannot agree on that one. Sure, Terran is a very strong and the race as a whole has had some great results lately, but I think the maps account for that. It could be argued that in maps like Xel'Naga Caverns, which most agree is a fairly balanced map, Terran has no advantage.

*Having played as Protoss in BW, why did you choose Terran in SC2?*
For no specific reason. I heard Terran was good when I started playing SC2 so I chose it.

*Who do you think is the best Terran at the moment?*
I'm sorry other Terran players, but IMMVP is no doubt alone at the top.










*Don't you feel sorry for the banelings? Your marine micro is mean.*
My hatred for them is way greater than my compassion. Banelings are every Terran's worst enemy.

*What unit would you use if you couldn't use marines?*
Now that would be terrible. If that really comes to pass I would use marauders.

*You struggle a lot in games where for some reason marine micro is shut down/is not enough. Have you got any other strategies? Tell us if you are studying other styles.*
I'm working on many different builds, like mech play and Battlecruiser oriented play, but currently I got nothing that I would confidently show in a televised match. For now, marine based builds are my favorite and most reliable, so I stick with them.

*Why am I not able to control marines like you do?*
My micro was not good from the beginning. I got my know-how after slaughtering many, many marines. Practice is the only answer. ^^

the second part of the interview:

*#2 "MarineKing" Lee Jung Hoon, this is what we'd like to know!*

*Why did you choose to become a progamer?*
I liked playing games and I played a lot of it when I was little.

*What is the general reaction from your friends? Do they bug you a lot asking for tips?*
Some of them keep asking to play a match with them, while many others ask me to pay a dinner or something. I feel bad because most times I can't.

*What have you done with the prize money you earned with second place finish in GSL2?*
Saved enough of it for me to spend it with daily activities, and the rest of it I gave to my parents.

*What do you do with your free time?*
Mostly I go out to hang around with my friends, and when I am stuck at home I watch soap operas or cartoons(I am not sure about this one, "manhwa" could be many things)

*Which race/player gives you most trouble? *
I struggle most against Protoss, and oGsMC is the most troublesome player to face.










*What's your win % against SlayersBoxer?*
We used to play each other a lot, but we haven't been practicing enough together lately. My impression is somewhere close to 50/50.

*Whose TvZ is the best: yours or MVPs?*
Our styles are different so it's difficult to compare really. However, if I were to choose one I'd say MVP's style is safer and more stable than mine.

*Who do you think will be your greatest challenge on your championship run?*
I predict some hardship coming my way when I face IMMVP or oGsMC.

*What are your thoughts about those saying "*** WHY DOES HE ONLY USE MARINES!!!111"*
Sorry about that (_ _) . I will try to mix in some variety.

*Which one do you hate the most: High Templars or Collosus?*
I hate the most HTs + Colossus. I just hate them both equally.

*What would you be doing if you weren't a progamer?*
I guess I would be going to school and studying like everyone else.

*Which BW progamer do you think would be most succesful in SC2?*
Flash, or Jaedong.

*You are a handsome guy. What kind of girl do you like most?*
Well, I don't think so. As for girls, my ideal girl would be a cutie.

*Are you personally rooting for some teammate or a progamer friend? If so, who would that be?*
Check is going through a slump lately, I wish he overcomes that as soon as possible, and I feel sorry for Maka as his results are way below what it should be considering his performance in practice sessions. I wish everyone on our team(Prime) the best.

*You are very popular among foreign fans, what's your secret to success?*
I think foreign fans focus only on the game itself, and they become fans as I show them many exciting matches. (I think he means that the foreign fans don't care about anything other than quality of games, such as appearance, voice, and interview ability)

*You said that you would adopt the nickname OptimusPrime if you won the GSL, and you failed. Are you going to attempt it again?*
Well, first things first. For now I am thinking about reaching the finals.

End of interview


----------



## rhed5

can't stand him


----------



## yks

pretty much unanimous in the KR scene that MVP is the best terran in the world right now.


----------



## vdek

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



We will see how he does against Jinro.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12065967*
> can't stand him


Why?


----------



## rhed5

mainly his persona,demeanor and stupid id's, still an awesome gamer though


----------



## DoomDash

I like him.


----------



## EmMure

cause ur terran.


----------



## BigFan

^^ XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12066635*
> mainly his persona,demeanor and stupid id's, still an awesome gamer though


I agree about the id thing, I mean he changed it, what a total of 5 times or something?







As for his persona, demeanor, he's only what 14 or 15, etc.... so he's pretty young, can't pass judgement


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12066702*
> ^^ XD
> 
> I agree about the id thing, I mean he changed it, what a total of 5 times or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for his persona, demeanor, he's only what 14 or 15, etc.... so he's pretty young, can't pass judgement


He is 17.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12066964*
> He is 17.


lol, only off by 2-3 years, not bad XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12066964*
> He is 17.


17 korean?


----------



## thiru

17 Korean which means 34 in Western.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12067447*
> 17 Korean which means 34 in Western.


lol, where did you get that from?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12067422*
> 17 korean?


19 Korean, 17 rest of the world.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12067490*
> lol, where did you get that from?


Koreans age faster due to their high stress lifestyle.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12067613*
> Koreans age faster due to their high stress lifestyle.


Define high stress as in what they are doing to cause them more stress?


----------



## DoomDash

DoomDash 2600+ Master playing off race Z vs 2350~ T/Z player from Diamond:



High Diamond not very impressive >.<.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12067746*
> DoomDash 2600+ Master playing off race Z vs 2350~ T/Z player from Diamond:
> 
> 
> 
> High Diamond not very impressive >.<.


lol, considering you were diamond at one point


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12067763*
> lol, considering you were diamond at one point


Yeah but that was a different Diamond league... that's why they made the cut off because the range in skill was so different.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12067898*
> Yeah but that was a different Diamond league... that's why they made the cut off because the range in skill was so different.


2350 Diamond is pretty crappy tbh, I only have issues with the 2600+ diamond players.


----------



## DoomDash

Well he has 300 bonus pool.


----------



## QuadDamage

I got 2314 in my pool

I don't play much latter i find it boring. I like custom games or un ranked it's more fun and less pressure. I tend to play Diamond or Gold players. I get stomped by Diamond I can't apm high and can't micro for crap. Love the game tho


----------



## rhed5

It's funny how hard it is to get in rhythm after a few days of not playing. You end up making so many basic and simple mistakes. You only realize how meticulous this game is after making so many mistakes and paying for them.


----------



## Katana

case in point

AHHHH, why isn't this attack working? I have like 100 guys!! Drones are the most powerful swarming unit, right?


----------



## yks

2000-2999 diamond is mid-diamond, doom.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12067746*
> DoomDash 2600+ Master playing off race Z vs 2350~ T/Z player from Diamond:
> 
> 
> 
> High Diamond not very impressive >.<.


Judging by games you post and some I see on TL, NA ladder must be some kind of a joke as well as the master league, now full of random people who think they are good because of the new icon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12068071*
> 2350 Diamond is pretty crappy tbh, I only have issues with the 2600+ diamond players.


Which confirms what I said above. Based on games I saw I'd place you at high gold.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12068477*
> 2000-2999 diamond is mid-diamond, doom.


Not really since old 2.5k+ diamond is master now, so anything 2k+ seems to be high diamond.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12068680*
> Not really since old 2.5k+ diamond is master now, so anything 2k+ seems to be high diamond.


Not really, since all the old high-rated diamonds moved to masters.

The old 2400s are now hitting 3000 since there aren't any harder people around. So diamond points are super inflated right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12068680*
> Judging by games you post and some I see on TL, NA ladder must be some kind of a joke as well as the master league, now full of random people who think they are good because of the new icon.
> 
> Which confirms what I said above. Based on games I saw I'd place you at high gold.
> 
> Not really since old 2.5k+ diamond is master now, so anything 2k+ seems to be high diamond.


IDK I haven't noticed a difference in skill between the two servers based upon tournaments I've played with people from both. Lots of people from Euro play on NA from SCC and are about the same level on NA accounts. I think there may be some difference though, mainly in styles.

3000 is super high Diamond now yks, go look at sc2ranks.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12068680*
> Which confirms what I said above. Based on games I saw I'd place you at high gold.


:O You'd place me at the 60th percentile of total starcraft players?? I don't think I'm THAT bad...







By MMR I'm in the 95th percentile at least on the NA ladder...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12068872*
> IDK I haven't noticed a difference in skill between the two servers based upon tournaments I've played with people from both. Lots of people from Euro play on NA from SCC and are about the same level on NA accounts. I think there may be some difference though, mainly in styles.
> 
> 3000 is super high Diamond now yks, go look at sc2ranks.


Well, I haven't really played on NA ladder, but based on the games I've seen there sure seems to be less variety in play styles. Like you got to mid diamond doing a single one base timing attack in TvP pretty much every game, which is kind of an equivalent to protoss 4 gating in every game. Now in the last few games I saw you stay on pure MM till 20 minutes into the game, without getting factory and/or starport, and your master protoss opponents are not able to punish you for that, which is something even high platinum players should know how to do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12069283*
> :O You'd place me at the 60th percentile of total starcraft players?? I don't think I'm THAT bad...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By MMR I'm in the 95th percentile at least on the NA ladder...


I might have had a bad day today losing to all the zergs I encountered, which angers me even more given how much time I spend recently trying to figure out the matchup. On the other hand I'm quite rusty having not played the game for almost two weeks.

Anyway last game of you I saw you went hatch before pool on steppes, then didn't scout, then didn't make a single queen till 7 minutes into the game. These are kind of mistakes no diamond players should make, let alone master.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Anyway last game of you I saw you went hatch before pool on steppes, then didn't scout, then didn't make a single queen till 7 minutes into the game. These are kind of mistakes no diamond players should make, let alone master.


Oh, that game against yks. I was messing around with a 3 hatch ling build, that wasn't a serious game at all. Yks did pwn me that game which is why I've abandoned that build.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Well, I haven't really played on NA ladder, but based on the games I've seen there sure seems to be less variety in play styles. Like you got to mid diamond doing a single one base timing attack in TvP pretty much every game, which is kind of an equivalent to protoss 4 gating in every game. Now in the last few games I saw you stay on pure MM till 20 minutes into the game, without getting factory and/or starport, and your master protoss opponents are not able to punish you for that, which is something even high platinum players should know how to do.


From what I've read on TL, on the EU server about 90% of the Protoss players 4 gate every single game.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Well, I haven't really played on NA ladder, but based on the games I've seen there sure seems to be less variety in play styles. Like you got to mid diamond doing a single one base timing attack in TvP pretty much every game, which is kind of an equivalent to protoss 4 gating in every game. Now in the last few games I saw you stay on pure MM till 20 minutes into the game, without getting factory and/or starport, and your master protoss opponents are not able to punish you for that, which is something even high platinum players should know how to do.

I might have had a bad day today losing to all the zergs I encountered, which angers me even more given how much time I spend recently trying to figure out the matchup. On the other hand I'm quite rusty having not played the game for almost two weeks.

Anyway last game of you I saw you went hatch before pool on steppes, then didn't scout, then didn't make a single queen till 7 minutes into the game. These are kind of mistakes no diamond players should make, let alone master.


I agree with you on most points but I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to get away with going straight rax throughout the game TvP as long as you two are trading army s. Qxc did it in his one game against Huk and he almost won. He was mined out though which cost him the game. MMM's can pretty much take on anything if you make sure that you're trading army's, getting upgrades, and have good micro.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Well, I haven't really played on NA ladder, but based on the games I've seen there sure seems to be less variety in play styles. Like you got to mid diamond doing a single one base timing attack in TvP pretty much every game, which is kind of an equivalent to protoss 4 gating in every game. Now in the last few games I saw you stay on pure MM till 20 minutes into the game, without getting factory and/or starport, and your master protoss opponents are not able to punish you for that, which is something even high platinum players should know how to do.

I might have had a bad day today losing to all the zergs I encountered, which angers me even more given how much time I spend recently trying to figure out the matchup. On the other hand I'm quite rusty having not played the game for almost two weeks.

Anyway last game of you I saw you went hatch before pool on steppes, then didn't scout, then didn't make a single queen till 7 minutes into the game. These are kind of mistakes no diamond players should make, let alone master.


This shows a lack of understanding in TvP as T. You don't need factory or starport tech unless Colossus are out. I do my builds based upon my opponent, which is what a good player does. If I see evidence of Colossus I go starport asap before ghost... if I see templar tech I go ghosts before starport. If he is making mostly gateway units of course I'm not going to tech as barracks > gateway units. I have seen tons of pros do the exact same thing ( Drewbie, qxc, ect ect ).

And yeah I used timing attacks for a long time in Diamond and I never really got that far that fast with it. The only reason you've beaten them at all so far is because I literally told you what I was going to do. If you have no mystery of course you can easily beat a build, and that's why in the game I didn't tell you what I'd do I won. Anyway I don't do 3 rax builds anymore, and I focus upon economy builds.

It's like any match up, if I tell you I'm NOT going banshees, you have no reasons to be forced into having detectors. From what I've seen of Euro its no different...

You could be right about variety in builds, but then when I watch half these Terrans on the Euro servers their builds are terrible ( IMO ), and guess what Protoss on Euro servers some how struggle with them.

and as far as vdek goes he's played like 140 ladder games.. he isn't very experienced in some situations.

And as the queens the 3 hatch no queen build was an idea I told him about that I said he should try to see how it was.


----------



## DoomDash

Also I watched my latest replays and I had starports ( and ghost acad ) at 12 minutes. Which replays are they at 20 minutes?


----------



## Mwarren

Have you thrown in thors into your mix TvZ Doom? I've been going 2 rax expand, into double factory pumping siege tanks and thors while getting upgrades. It's been working really well for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Have you thrown in thors into your mix TvZ Doom? I've been going 2 rax expand, into double factory pumping siege tanks and thors while getting upgrades. It's been working really well for me.


Yeah. Same results.


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty interesting stuff:
http://kotaku.com/5738097/videos-tak...arcraft-makers


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pretty interesting stuff:
http://kotaku.com/5738097/videos-tak...arcraft-makers


Interesting. Very interesting. I haven't read the whole privacy and rights agreement of the game, but I wonder if there is anything in there about this.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This shows a lack of understanding in TvP as T. You don't need factory or starport tech unless Colossus are out. I do my builds based upon my opponent, which is what a good player does. If I see evidence of Colossus I go starport asap before ghost... if I see templar tech I go ghosts before starport. If he is making mostly gateway units of course I'm not going to tech as barracks > gateway units. I have seen tons of pros do the exact same thing ( Drewbie, qxc, ect ect ).

And yeah I used timing attacks for a long time in Diamond and I never really got that far that fast with it. The only reason you've beaten them at all so far is because I literally told you what I was going to do. If you have no mystery of course you can easily beat a build, and that's why in the game I didn't tell you what I'd do I won. Anyway I don't do 3 rax builds anymore, and I focus upon economy builds.

It's like any match up, if I tell you I'm NOT going banshees, you have no reasons to be forced into having detectors. From what I've seen of Euro its no different...

You could be right about variety in builds, but then when I watch half these Terrans on the Euro servers their builds are terrible ( IMO ), and guess what Protoss on Euro servers some how struggle with them.

and as far as vdek goes he's played like 140 ladder games.. he isn't very experienced in some situations.

And as the queens the 3 hatch no queen build was an idea I told him about that I said he should try to see how it was.


Pretty much this.

^^Interesting article, hopefully they get the mod back up. Would be interesting to play, wonder the main reason behind the removal


----------



## Katana

Is it worth going for Ghosts at midgame just from knowing your enemy is Protoss? EMP will basically halve the health of any incoming army (and make Immortals and Archons useless)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Katana*


Is it worth going for Ghosts at midgame just from knowing your enemy is Protoss? EMP will basically halve the health of any incoming army (and make Immortals and Archons useless)


Read the post BigFan quoted on how I decide on WHEN to get EMP.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12071597*
> This shows a lack of understanding in TvP as T. You don't need factory or starport tech unless Colossus are out. I do my builds based upon my opponent, which is what a good player does. If I see evidence of Colossus I go starport asap before ghost... if I see templar tech I go ghosts before starport. If he is making mostly gateway units of course I'm not going to tech as barracks > gateway units. I have seen tons of pros do the exact same thing ( Drewbie, qxc, ect ect ).
> 
> And yeah I used timing attacks for a long time in Diamond and I never really got that far that fast with it. The only reason you've beaten them at all so far is because I literally told you what I was going to do. If you have no mystery of course you can easily beat a build, and that's why in the game I didn't tell you what I'd do I won. Anyway I don't do 3 rax builds anymore, and I focus upon economy builds.
> 
> It's like any match up, if I tell you I'm NOT going banshees, you have no reasons to be forced into having detectors. From what I've seen of Euro its no different...
> 
> You could be right about variety in builds, but then when I watch half these Terrans on the Euro servers their builds are terrible ( IMO ), and guess what Protoss on Euro servers some how struggle with them.
> 
> and as far as vdek goes he's played like 140 ladder games.. he isn't very experienced in some situations.
> 
> And as the queens the 3 hatch no queen build was an idea I told him about that I said he should try to see how it was.


It's not that going pure rax for 20 minutes is bad per se, but protoss going pure gateway units for that time allowing it to work is not that good imo. The game was on Xel'naga.

Also SC2 is not the game of surprise. I could tell BigFan exactly what I'm going to do in every game and it probably wouldn't help him in the slightest. I have opponents which I know what they are going to do every game and I still lose. I could tell you the same and I don't think it would really affect the outcome unless my plan for the game was specifically to surprise you with DTs or something similar, which is not a good plan for the game anyway.

Btw I wonder how do you react to DTs with your pure rax play.


----------



## EmMure

one radar and ur dt's go splat most of the time


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;12076468*
> one radar and ur dt's go splat most of the time


More like one radar per DT.


----------



## EmMure

idk dt's are pretty soft in terms of killability


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;12076489*
> idk dt's are pretty soft in terms of killability


Doesn't matter since you send the DTs one at a time.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;12076468*
> one radar and ur dt's go splat most of the time


DTs don't have to do damage. You can't move out if they're on the map as long as you don;t have mobile detection. This allows protoss to safely expand. Killing SCVs, tech or units with DTs is just a bonus.


----------



## vdek

Woo, I was trying out this new site, replay2avi.com and I made a video of the game me and yks had a while back, check it out:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a77x7iRggS8[/ame]

I'm actually surprised at how nice it came out for being done automatically!


----------



## yks

Aside from the sound stuttering its pretty good. Obviously no fraps, but none the less good.


----------



## jello900

Any of you guys experienced low cpu and gpu usage? I get really low FPS with my rig on Extreme settings (goes down to 40fps). At first i though my gpu was the only one having low usage/ no sli support. But it seems my CPU is also a problem, I get max 30% cpu usage and from what I read this is a very cpu intensive game.

anyone experienced this? and suggestions?


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12071471*
> I agree with you on most points but I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to get away with going straight rax throughout the game TvP as long as you two are trading army s. Qxc did it in his one game against Huk and he almost won. He was mined out though which cost him the game. MMM's can pretty much take on anything if you make sure that you're trading army's, getting upgrades, and have good micro.


Was that the beta match in HD on youtube, like game 3 or something? Didn't he try to one-base against Huk, the king of the one-base?

Is that your ave. or min FPS jello? You want low usage. That means you have a strong system.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12076279*
> It's not that going pure rax for 20 minutes is bad per se, but protoss going pure gateway units for that time allowing it to work is not that good imo. The game was on Xel'naga.
> 
> Also SC2 is not the game of surprise. I could tell BigFan exactly what I'm going to do in every game and it probably wouldn't help him in the slightest. I have opponents which I know what they are going to do every game and I still lose. I could tell you the same and I don't think it would really affect the outcome unless my plan for the game was specifically to surprise you with DTs or something similar, which is not a good plan for the game anyway.
> 
> Btw I wonder how do you react to DTs with your pure rax play.


Almost no one goes pure gateway units against me. I see colossus / templar almost every game. I think you just watched 1 replay or something.

DT's ran into those plenty. I have 2 orbital commands, and I get an ebay up quickly. But I'd also tech to Raven after seeing them.


----------



## Nevaziah

Hey Dash, I fyou dont mind, I could really use your help. I need to perfect the 2 rax fast expand into double factory or into 2 rax and starport.

My terran matchup is HORRIBLE. By horrible, I mean I NEVER know what to most of the time. If you have time tonight, I could use some help in my TvP.

The offer stands for any other high Master Level player here. Ill be on at 6 PM eastern time (New York Time)


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12077493*
> Hey Dash, I fyou dont mind, I could really use your help. I need to perfect the 2 rax fast expand into double factory or into 2 rax and starport.
> 
> My terran matchup is HORRIBLE. By horrible, I mean I NEVER know what to most of the time. If you have time tonight, I could use some help in my TvP.
> 
> The offer stands for any other high Master Level player here. Ill be on at 6 PM eastern time (New York Time)


Ohhh this sounds nice...I'm down for spectating and learning too...

[EDIT] I'm down for some games too before I go break my bank account for 2 24"s


----------



## Rust1d?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12077493*
> Hey Dash, I fyou dont mind, I could really use your help. I need to perfect the 2 rax fast expand into double factory or into 2 rax and starport.
> 
> My terran matchup is HORRIBLE. By horrible, I mean I NEVER know what to most of the time. If you have time tonight, I could use some help in my TvP.
> 
> The offer stands for any other high Master Level player here. Ill be on at 6 PM eastern time (New York Time)


When I play 3v3 or 4v4 I almost always go mass rines. Hard to stop 100 rines with stimpack/shield and fully upgraded with 10 vacs in tow. Otherwise, I go tanks/thors.


----------



## Mwarren

The problem with going DT's is that a good Terran player will notice the lack of gateway units and know that there's a hidden tech and will just get an ebay, save a few scans and push out and win. All that you really need is 2-3 scans and its GG.


----------



## vdek

I put a link up on reddit as well if you guys wanna be nice and upvote it for me!









http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/f5sqn/no_cheese_please/

Also doom, if you haven't noticed, my youtube account name is txz003 which stands for???!?


----------



## DoomDash

idk?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomdash;12077792*
> idk?


300zxt


----------



## DoomDash

oh its backwards.

cool. hope u get a good car.


----------



## jello900

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12077445*
> Was that the beta match in HD on youtube, like game 3 or something? Didn't he try to one-base against Huk, the king of the one-base?
> 
> Is that your ave. or min FPS jello? You want low usage. That means you have a strong system.


Hey sly, Thats my min FPS. I get an average of 60-70FPS. Just find it weird that im getting really low FPS for my system specs. I got better fps with my 460sli and i5 750.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12077822*
> oh its backwards.
> 
> cool. hope u get a good car.


Heh, I've had that username on youtube for a long time, lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12076279*
> It's not that going pure rax for 20 minutes is bad per se, but protoss going pure gateway units for that time allowing it to work is not that good imo. The game was on Xel'naga.
> 
> Also SC2 *is not the game of surprise*. I could tell BigFan exactly what I'm going to do in every game and it probably wouldn't help him in the slightest. I have opponents which I know what they are going to do every game and I still lose. *I could tell you the same and I don't think it would really affect the outcome* unless my plan for the game was specifically to surprise you with DTs or something similar, which is not a good plan for the game anyway.
> 
> Btw I wonder how do you react to DTs with your pure rax play.


If you don't scout, then yes it can become the game of surprise







Point: Ever seen someone build a second gas when the scouting worker is around then they cancel it when it's taken out/leaves or a second rax, etc....? The opponent will think you're planning to tech while you might want to exp, etc.... dts like banshees can be used for surprise attacks or to attack fronts that aren't well guarded/no turrets for cloak, etc.... Either way if someone knew what your plan was(mass MMM, only gateway units, etc....) then they can formulate a counter and unless the skill gap is that large, could probably take the game. I think the games you and doom played a while back are a good indication of this


----------



## DoomDash

If a Zerg player tell you he isn't making muta I wouldn't have to make turrets or even be ready for it. Big difference.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12078264*
> If you don't scout, then yes it can become the game of surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Point: Ever seen someone build a second gas when the scouting worker is around then they cancel it when it's taken out/leaves or a second rax, etc....? The opponent will think you're planning to tech while you might want to exp, etc.... dts like banshees can be used for surprise attacks or to attack fronts that aren't well guarded/no turrets for cloak, etc.... Either way if someone knew what your plan was(mass MMM, only gateway units, etc....) then they can formulate a counter and unless the skill gap is that large, could probably take the game. I think the games you and doom played a while back are a good indication of this


The problem with that you're saying is that most players don't just stick with one unit type so counters don't really matter. No good player just goes "I'm just going to keep making gateways". It doesn't work like that. A good player would go 3 gate robo, expand, than maybe get a stargate, than get collosis. Even if the said player told me what they were going to do it wouldn't matter. It's the macro, micro, timing, multi tasking, that counts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12078477*
> If a Zerg player tell you he isn't making muta I wouldn't have to make turrets or even be ready for it. Big difference.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12078548*
> The problem with that you're saying is that most players don't just stick with one unit type so counters don't really matter. No good player just goes "I'm just going to keep making gateways". It doesn't work like that. A good player would go 3 gate robo, expand, than maybe get a stargate, than get collosis. Even if the said player told me what they were going to do it wouldn't matter. It's the macro, micro, timing, multi tasking, that counts.


Doom comment explains my point^^


----------



## Liamo Luo

Grr I'm getting really annoyed at terran going Marine Marauder! I've been playing toss recently and I can't counter it. Was easy as zerg since once I scout it I throw out some banelings, crush the marines and face roll him with my stupid amount of roaches. Now as Toss I get Immortals, stalkers and sentries. Use the force field and just get rolled over by the extreme number of stimed M+M









Any advice to counter it?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;12079193*
> Grr I'm getting really annoyed at terran going Marine Marauder! I've been playing toss recently and I can't counter it. Was easy as zerg since once I scout it I throw out some banelings, crush the marines and face roll him with my stupid amount of roaches. Now as Toss I get Immortals, stalkers and sentries. Use the force field and just get rolled over by the extreme number of stimed M+M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice to counter it?


Colossi/hts rape MM especially if you have a couple, it's not even funny XD


----------



## rhed5

You can't stop MMM with gateway units. You may be able to stop MM in small numbers early on with good FF's but as they get bigger, it's impossible. You need either colossus or templars.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12079209*
> Colossi/hts rape MM especially if you have a couple, it's not even funny XD


Yeah I noticed Colossi was effective, but they still seem to pick them off. Just rage quitted the game, MM ball got me about 6 games in a row. I'd actually like to play a high level terran, so I can lose to something that isn't MM ball.

/vents

Feel better now


----------



## DoomDash

vdek that replay2avi site is awesome. Just uploaded my first replay... pretty neat stuff.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12079268*
> vdek that replay2avi site is awesome. Just uploaded my first replay... pretty neat stuff.


Yeah, it's pretty awesome I think for something that's done automatically









Neat little script the guy has setup.

The site was actually down for a few weeks while the guy was doing server upgrades, finally came back online the other day. I was trying to find a nice replay to test it out with, and it came out better than I expected.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;12079193*
> Grr I'm getting really annoyed at terran going Marine Marauder! I've been playing toss recently and I can't counter it. Was easy as zerg since once I scout it I throw out some banelings, crush the marines and face roll him with my stupid amount of roaches. Now as Toss I get Immortals, stalkers and sentries. Use the force field and just get rolled over by the extreme number of stimed M+M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice to counter it?


Try going 2-3 gate, stargate, expand. Void rays throw most terran players off and can keep them in their base if you harass the mineral line.


----------



## vdek

I put up another video made from that replay2avi site, this game was on my stream a while back actually, really funny diamond league game. I checked out the guy who I was playing against and he is now a 2700 point Diamond zerg :O

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6ADsXZwdI[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTQMjM0Mmk[/ame]


----------



## thiru

Terran needs a buff for late game.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ63i9BXZSs&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12079802*
> Terran needs a buff for late game.


I was checking that out on reddit earlier, could you imagine :O


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12079816*
> I was checking that out on reddit earlier, could you imagine :O


That's hilarious, blizzard had something similar with a bunker getting infested then becoming some monster XD


----------



## DoomDash

That video is ages old.


----------



## monsterrose

Hey this might be off topic but I am looking for someone with Photoshop skills that could help me make a Starcraft II Signiture?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

you should make a post including that link, and a link to the ocn post containing the link. ocn doesn't allow external links in sigs


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *monsterrose*


Hey this might be off topic but I am looking for someone with Photoshop skills that could help me make a Starcraft II Signiture?


Do you want me to list your stream in the OP?


----------



## monsterrose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Do you want me to list your stream in the OP?


sure what do u mean tho?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *monsterrose*


sure what do u mean tho?


Do you want me to put a link to your stream in the first post of this thread? next to vdek's and yks' streams.


----------



## monsterrose

sure can u do that for me man


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So i'm in NYC vaca and finally have some time to rewatch gsl vids. Which were the games that you'll described as "best tvt" and epic games I saw earlier? Where they all in the round of 64 or later?

thanks


----------



## DoomDash

Jinro vs Ensnare on Lost Temple.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *monsterrose*


sure can u do that for me man










Well you took out the link from your sig so I don't know what it is


----------



## monsterrose

could you put my stream up theer with them man


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *monsterrose*


could you put my stream up theer with them man


Like I said, I need the link?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


So i'm in NYC vaca and finally have some time to rewatch gsl vids. Which were the games that you'll described as "best tvt" and epic games I saw earlier? Where they all in the round of 64 or later?

thanks



Marine King Prime vs OgsNada Code S round of 8

Also

OgsMC vs Jinro series Code S round of 16

amazing games.

Also, jediwin: new tournament up at cybercraft, register early if you wanna go!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=186385


----------



## BigFan

Anyone here played some sc1 recently? Can't help but notice how much of a different game it seems


----------



## DoomDash

I played it a couple days ago..... I hate it now. New engine and auto mining w/ rally spoils me.


----------



## monsterrose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Like I said, I need the link?


http://www.justin.tv/monster_17rose


----------



## DoomDash

League, race, hours?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *monsterrose*


http://www.justin.tv/monster_17rose


Added. What's your race and league btw?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I played it a couple days ago..... I hate it now. New engine and auto mining w/ rally spoils me.


Talk about going for easy mode







It's really not that bad actually, because, you get the timings down rather fast and since I'm used to moving around my base using keyboard controls/map, etc.... it's not that different. How can you hate sc? XD

Edit: Should mention game doesn't look bad at all and it's rather bizzare how slow marine acceleration is but wish firebats and vultures were back in. The range of hydras is crazy though


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.justin.tv/gosucoachingtv#/w/781936624

Root vs Liquid now.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean I love the units, but the engine and stuff sucks.


----------



## bucdan

Nice imma watch


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I mean I love the units, but the engine and stuff sucks.


Stuff? Yes, engine is old but I mean what do you expect?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Stuff? Yes, engine is old but I mean what do you expect?










I don't expect anything. Just pointing out how much SCII improved.


----------



## bucdan

Wow, all blink enabled stalkers is enough to win...


----------



## DoomDash

Infestor sneak in ultimate fail!


----------



## thiru

that was pretty funny


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=186396

!!!


----------



## thiru

O.O

Wth


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't expect anything. Just pointing out how much SCII improved.


I know, just mentioning that the game is still pretty fun to play regardless of the gfx or the rally points, etc....









^^Nice, was wondering why no gold exp on that map for a while, although, I do wonder about the location


----------



## DoomDash

Still seems Terran favored ( vs Z but not P )... but we'll see.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Still seems Terran favored ( vs Z but not P )... but we'll see.


Tanks on that high ground would likely be able to shell that gold exp or at least come close, but, agree, better to reserve judgement atm









Edit: Someone get on, wanna have a TvsZ or TvsP or something









Edit2: I swear some people are just so bizzare. Decide to try to ladder, get a TvsZ on steppes. Say hello, gl hf and then the guy starts asking why I'm so rude, so, I explain what it means and then he starts telling me #*[email protected] off, etc.... so I decide to stop responding and he goes on, then he lags out? XD


----------



## BigFan

Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow,Wow!!!!!

Sorry for all the Wows, but, it's just that a game I played right now can only be described as WOW and no I don't mean that WoW, sorry yks









Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/128990-1v1-protoss-metalopolis#rd:dna
PvsP on meta, epic is an understatement here. Won't give much because it'll spoil the game, probably best to watch in x2+ unless you wanna watch 59min of PvsP action









Should probably mention that my game was pretty off coming from a week hiatus


----------



## yks

BigFan, you broke my heart, I thought you were playing WOW. jk.


----------



## DoomDash

200,000 thread views.


----------



## poroboszcz

Do you guys know any good chat channels? I'm usually at overclock.net which has 3 people at peak and TLKoth which seem to be the only active TL channel on EU. Any others I should try?


----------



## monsterrose

League is Silver Race is Terran


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12088916*
> Do you guys know any good chat channels? I'm usually at overclock.net which has 3 people at peak and TLKoth which seem to be the only active TL channel on EU. Any others I should try?


+1
overclock.net is dead everytime i'm there. the only person I see is doom, and he's always away.


----------



## nlsthzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12088916*
> Do you guys know any good chat channels? I'm usually at overclock.net which has 3 people at peak and TLKoth which seem to be the only active TL channel on EU. Any others I should try?


HDStarcraft channel (even though it is the EU server)... always a lot of people there...

Been working night shift for 4 nights, so this thread has so many pages, I gave up reading them all









... and just got owned by Siege Tanks... I need to work on transitioning from the Bio opening into mech it seems against Terran...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12087453*
> BigFan, you broke my heart, I thought you were playing WOW. jk.


oops, need some glue







jk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12089073*
> +1
> overclock.net is dead everytime i'm there. the only person I see is doom, and he's always away.


Disappointing but true. Only doom is ever there whenever I check


----------



## thiru

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186280

For those interested.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12089252*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186280
> 
> For those interested.


Interesting, wonder why Blizz would do this. Either way, I'm still wondering why no cross region play :/


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12089073*
> +1
> overclock.net is dead everytime i'm there. the only person I see is doom, and he's always away.


I'm usually on the "Team Liquid New York" Channel. It's pretty active and lively.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12089252*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186280
> 
> For those interested.


can anyone copy&past for those who can't go to TL?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12089998*
> can anyone copy&past for those who can't go to TL?


You can mail blizzard and get a swap. It only works for EU>NA and NA>EU tho. And it's permanent, cant change back and you'll basicly lose your league and all achievements/statistics. They remove your EU account and give you a new NA account basicly.


----------



## DoomDash

Playing horrible today !


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Playing horrible today !










Well, everyone has his bad days







Better to take a break









@rhed5 Pretty much what thiru stated^^


----------



## thiru

I just copy pasted what the guy said in the thread.

Another guy said all you needed to do was go in your battle.net account and press "switch regions".


----------



## DoomDash

Wonder if anyone will switch.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

lol at that troll from Azerbaijan on tl.

doom time to switch races


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12090403*
> Wonder if anyone will switch.


All you good players should come to EU where all the best non-koreans are!









Btw. Doom you could do it with one of your NA accounts and have both.

I managed to get a 2.5k master zerg from TL to practice with. Even though I lost 5 games (1 was close though







) I have learned a lot. I can comfortably play most diamond zergs atm and even won one game against some 2.9k one. Not quite where I'd like to be yet before I start laddering again, but at least I'm starting to understand why I lose when I do. I think PvZ is one of the most complicated matchups in the game.


----------



## thiru

lol @ IEM European finals: 10 terrans and WhiteRa and Socke.


----------



## yks

Ending up going +2 today, 8-6. +122 Points

5 Losses in PVP =/ Thumper, those practice games against you gave me false-confidence!!~!! =P =[

1 Loss in PvZ.

Had a horrible 4 loss streak though which really made me mad. Guess I'm having a bad day too, Doom.


----------



## Gigalisk

I made it up to 4th Place in my bronze div, and now i'm -7 WLR. Hope when i go positive WLR i can move up a league!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Ending up going +2 today, 8-6. +122 Points

5 Losses in PVP =/ Thumper, those practice games against you gave me false-confidence!!~!! =P =[

1 Loss in PvZ.

Had a horrible 4 loss streak though which really made me mad. Guess I'm having a bad day too, Doom.


It happens, practicing and taking breaks is what helps though









^^You move up once you start facing silver or higher and win enough of them, nothing to do with W/L ratio I'm afraid


----------



## thiru

Yeah I got out of bronze with a 1:1 ratio


----------



## Mwarren

I'm +1 today, was +6 yesterday though. I'm still surprised at how many people still cheese in diamond. Yesterday I had two zergs in a row try to 6/7 pool me, both failed. My second game today had a terran 3 proxy rax me and I scouted it too late. Losing to cheese doesn't even bother me anymore though cause in reality all that it does it skew up both players MMR's. I normally end up winning my next game to make it even.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

man i love this guy

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

i actually liked that interview.


----------



## nlsthzn

IdrA showed he can't handle rushes... and he can't rush... other than that he might be one of the best players in the world...


----------



## rhed5

I am with him; zerg needs a buff or better maps. Speaking of which, I notice jungle basin has been updated; my first instinct is that it helps out terran even more but we will see.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I am with him; zerg needs a buff or better maps. Speaking of which, I notice jungle basin has been updated; my first instinct is that it helps out terran even more but we will see.


That's what everyones saying right now... But I dunno, I think Terrans are going to be more inclined to take the gold now instead of the middle expansion which might make it easier. It's going to be interesting to see how/if blizzard balances the game to make Z a little stronger.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I am with him; zerg needs a buff or better maps. Speaking of which, I notice jungle basin has been updated; my first instinct is that it helps out terran even more but we will see.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


That's what everyones saying right now... But I dunno, I think Terrans are going to be more inclined to take the gold now instead of the middle expansion which might make it easier. It's going to be interesting to see how/if blizzard balances the game to make Z a little stronger.


Tell me if I'm mistaken, but, wouldn't it easy for T to place tanks in their main above the gold and maybe some near their PF there with some bunkers. I would think that'll be hard to break down. Of course, it'll leave the front open but nothing a couple of tanks with some marauders can't handle


----------



## yks

My initial impression of the Jungle Basin change is that it benefits all the races.

Taking a 4th in JB was like, T_T where do you go? But now you have 3 relatively obvious expansion choices.

Turtle Terran might seem a little, T_T now though. PF/Tank in the middle definitely protects the gold SOOO well.

But what race benefits having an expansion the most? Zerg. So I think it's an indirect buff for Zerg. Expecially since it's super close to the middle, creep spread can reach it super fast (compared to the previous far left/right expansions).

Idra and other top Zergs were talking about how Jungle is unwinnable, so I think this is the right step to balancing the maps, which I think blizzard needs to look at more closely. Matchups vary too hardcore depending on the maps, so map balancing is definitely awesome compared to _Extreme-Race-Changes_.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I am with him; zerg needs a buff or better maps. Speaking of which, I notice jungle basin has been updated; my first instinct is that it helps out terran even more but we will see.


I still don't believe you remotely believe that, especially considering they are your best race.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I still don't believe you remotely believe that, especially considering they are your best race.


... Terran right now are dominating in high level play, it's not even a point you can really contest. I mean shiiit, look at the GSL, 7 terrans, 1 zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


... Terran right now are dominating in high level play, it's not even a point you can really contest. I mean shiiit, look at the GSL, 7 terrans, 1 zerg.


Yeah, just like there was almost always more high level Terrans in BW, it's no different. Terran draws a lot of good players, and maybe Terran at perfect high level is amazing but at Master level it's not nearly as easy for T as it is for other races. *IMO*.

Anyway, maybe I'll take up Zerg or Protoss next season.

Also idrA will QQ till the end of time.


----------



## thiru

IEM Europe, 10 terrans 2 protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, just like there was almost always more high level Terrans in BW, it's no different. Terran draws a lot of good players, and maybe Terran at perfect high level is amazing but at Master level it's not nearly as easy for T as it is for other races. *IMO*.

*Anyway, maybe I'll take up Zerg or Protoss next season.*
Also idrA will QQ till the end of time.


You can't, doom is associated with T, it would be bizzare to see you play something else









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


IEM Europe, 10 terrans 2 protoss.


Interesting that no Zergs are left









Odd day, last 2 days, 3 matches against Z players, TvsZ yesterday, PvsZ and ZvsZ now. PvsZ was pretty much a base race, killed all his structures minus 2 extractor and a hatchery that he started building when he was revealed. He had 10+ mutas left and I had no units other than cannons so I had to forfeit :/ Did take the ZvsZ on steppes, the guy decided to exp, so, I laid down 3 crawlers then proceeded to rally slings into his base as they were building. He got a surround on my crawlers as they build but once they were in the red, I'll stop them then remake







Eventually, even with his 2-3 crawlers being made, I was able to take them out before the other 2 poped


----------



## CramComplex

Ehehehe...sorry guys but...this is taking up much of my time...LOL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Ehehehe...sorry guys but...this is taking up much of my time...LOL


lol, can't even load it, no HTML5







Either way, it's fine, everyone is pretty busy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Ehehehe...sorry guys but...this is taking up much of my time...LOL


yawn.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'd like zerg tier 3 to be a lot stronger. Brood lords are way too easy to kill and deal damage too slowly. Ultralisk just flat out sucks, especially against protoss.


----------



## DoomDash

Ultras suck!? Man I love Ultras.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Ultras suck!? Man I love Ultras.


I've heard differing opinions on them, but I don't like them. I like to chat diamond and master league zerg opponents and some of them have said they think ultra sucks, while others like ultra. Personally I think ultra is pretty awful compared to a thor or a colossus, which cost the same.


----------



## Mwarren

Ultras rip right through thors and collossus. Any good zerg will have at least plus 2 attack/2 armor for ground units by the time he hits Ultra tech and if they get the +3 armor upgrade than the ultras with have +4 armor......Zerg late game is fine, its mostly about getting upgrades and that 300 army, power in numbers.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Ultras rip right through thors and collossus. Any good zerg will have at least plus 2 attack/2 armor for ground units by the time he hits Ultra tech and if they get the +3 armor upgrade than the ultras with have +4 armor......Zerg late game is fine, its mostly about getting upgrades and that 300 army, power in numbers.


Yeah but when do you see thor and colossus in the late game without supporting units? Immortal, marauder, siege tank, and void ray all shred ultra, and there are usually plenty of those units by the time you can get ultras out. Ultra also has terrible pathing issues because it's a melee unit. It gets jammed in traffic easily and good sentry FF micro makes it close to useless.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Yeah but when do you see thor and colossus in the late game without supporting units? Immortal, marauder, siege tank, and void ray all shred ultra, and there are usually plenty of those units by the time you can get ultras out. Ultra also has terrible pathing issues because it's a melee unit. It gets jammed in traffic easily and good sentry FF micro makes it close to useless.


FF doesn't work on ultras...


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


FF doesn't work on ultras...


Is that true? I've been avoiding ultra when I see a lot of sentries.

Edit: Damn you're right. I looked it up. Massive units break FF. I didn't know that. I might actually buy some ultras now.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Yeah but when do you see thor and colossus in the late game without supporting units? Immortal, marauder, siege tank, and void ray all shred ultra, and there are usually plenty of those units by the time you can get ultras out. Ultra also has terrible pathing issues because it's a melee unit. It gets jammed in traffic easily and good sentry FF micro makes it close to useless.


When do you see Ultras without supporting units? Of course mass Ultras are going to suck, they play the same role as the Thor/Collosis. Ultras paired with roaches/hydras, zerglings, banelings, or even corruptors just own. All of the Tier 3 units suck by them self, that's a fact. They all need support units to back them up. Thors suck against zerg without any support units such as marines or siege tanks.

Sentrys cant FF ultras, they're a massive unit.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is that true? I've been avoiding ultra when I see a lot of sentries.


Massive units break forcefields... in short nothing stops an ultra except vortex.


----------



## yks

A forcefield is like a broken speedbump in the road when in front of the devastating [email protected][email protected]#@%$!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Ultras rip right through thors and collossus. Any good zerg will have at least plus 2 attack/2 armor for ground units by the time he hits Ultra tech and if they get the +3 armor upgrade than the ultras with have +4 armor......Zerg late game is fine, its mostly about getting upgrades and that 300 army, power in numbers.


Well, you have to attack a toss as soon as you hit 200/200 before they max out, or else you have no chance. Toss maxed out > Zerg maxed out.


----------



## DoomDash

Down 40~ points for the day .


----------



## Katana

I don't think I've won as Zerg yet. Not that it matters intensely to me, but is there a general unit combination that people trend toward, like MMM? And if it's scouting-dependent, what then?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;12096309*
> I don't think I've won as Zerg yet. Not that it matters intensely to me, but is there a general unit combination that people trend toward, like MMM? And if it's scouting-dependent, what then?


Well lots of options, but generally this is how it goes:

ZvT : Sling/bane/muta.

ZvP : Roach/Hydra ( corrupter for colossus ) or Sling/Muta/ maybe roach.

ZvZ : smash key board and 1 base.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12095723*
> Is that true? I've been avoiding ultra when I see a lot of sentries.
> 
> Edit: Damn you're right. I looked it up. Massive units break FF. I didn't know that. I might actually *buy* some ultras now.


buy ultras? Where?







Yes, ff breaks under ultras, thors and colossi








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12095847*
> Well, you have to attack a toss as soon as you hit 200/200 before they max out, or else you have no chance. Toss maxed out > Zerg maxed out.


Pretty much, I believe even Terran maxed out > Zerg maxed out provided he isn't going mass marines against mass banes








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12095925*
> Down 40~ points for the day .


Well, you cursed yourself a while back when you said that your W/L went up by x%. Either way, it would've been unrealistic to think you'll keep on winning a lot of games, because, your MMR will keep going up until you start hitting 3k+ players and more which will make winning that much more difficult








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;12096309*
> I don't think I've won as Zerg yet. Not that it matters intensely to me, but is there a general unit combination that people trend toward, like MMM? And if it's scouting-dependent, what then?


I think doom touched on some good ones, but, tbh, I never go for a specific one, as in I've never ever went roach/hydras against P. I've always stuck to slings+roaches and then tech to mutas and go from there, etc.... As for ZvsZ, well, one good tip is if your opponent decides to exp in a ZvsZ, get a pool first, go for a couple of slings then take a couple of drones and build crawlers. Try to protect them while they are finishing and rallying slings in. Most opponents will have a hard time defending against this because they just threw down 350 for exp and just laid down their pool. I can post up a ZvsZ I just had today on Steppes if you like


----------



## yellowtoblerone

if z goes two base sling muta vs p forge fe 6 gate plus 1 weaps its usually gg before 2nd round of mutas pop out


----------



## vdek

Gotta go Roach/Hydra against toss, it's the most viable build IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Gotta go Roach/Hydra against toss, it's the most viable build IMO.


Surprisngly, I agree with this







Having said that, I think mutas are also needed to focus down colossi if possible, otherwise, roach/hydra would suffice


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Surprisngly, I agree with this







Having said that, I think mutas are also needed to focus down colossi if possible, otherwise, roach/hydra would suffice










Mutas, no.

Corruptors, yes.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Man, I have always underestimated the Zealot. Been playing Protoss recently (and having the most success with them)

I'm pretty sure my last opponent rage quitted. Me and a friend were playing 2v2 (bronze). Just kept using the warp prism to zealot drop into his mineral lines.

Won 7 games in a row tonight, a fair few against gold and plat guys, but we are still in bronze







Ah well, I learnt a lot tonight and found that speed Zealot + Colassi with a few sentries just pulls apart the terran MM ball.

Also got used to controlling the battle field to my advantage with sentries. Holding back power units for my colassi to pick off while my zealots rip everything on the other side to pieces. Obviously pretty amateur stuff to most on here but I enjoyed


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It is SOOO fun to feedback ghosts with full mana. The animation is great.

Upgraded zealots are soooo good.

If Z is going mutas, there's no need for P to go colossus.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo*


Man, I have always underestimated the Zealot. Been playing Protoss recently (and having the most success with them)

I'm pretty sure my last opponent rage quitted. Me and a friend were playing 2v2 (bronze). Just kept using the warp prism to zealot drop into his mineral lines.

Won 7 games in a row tonight, a fair few against gold and plat guys, but we are still in bronze







Ah well, I learnt a lot tonight and found that speed Zealot + Colassi with a few sentries just pulls apart the terran MM ball.

Also got used to controlling the battle field to my advantage with sentries. Holding back power units for my colassi to pick off while my zealots rip everything on the other side to pieces. Obviously pretty amateur stuff to most on here but I enjoyed










Chargelots are great especially late game since money piles up then and you can dump all your minerals into them. Colossi are also pretty good and brutal units as well. Have a look at the replay I posted a couple of pages back, you'll see what I mean









As for MMM, well against P, you should have more marauders. If your opponent's MMM was mostly marine based then those get slaughtered easily against colossi but if he made mostly marauders, then with some kiting(assuming you missed some ff, etc....) he would've taken it. Don't forget the zealots+colossi can't hit air so that combo is very susceptible to air to ground units such as banshees, etc....


----------



## Gigalisk

I missed playing last night because i had to go to the hospital...

DONT WORRY NO GUN HOLES, NO IEDs. I have a Stye (ocular boil)

It looks worse than it is.

Effing dirty afghan air.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


I missed playing last night because i had to go to the hospital...

DONT WORRY NO GUN HOLES, NO IEDs. I have a Stye (ocular boil)

It looks worse than it is.

Effing dirty afghan air.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


Ouch...had one on my leg when I was a teenager, took like a week to get rid of it as puss was being constantly leaking out if it, pushed some cotton inside the wound with hydrogen peroxide and it healed...left a bad bad scar tho...

OT: I'm loving my 6950 and my 2 new Asus VE247's LED monitors~ can't wait to play all Ultra on SC2...provided my Athlon II x4 630 @ 3.5ghz can handle it XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


Ouch...had one on my leg when I was a teenager, took like a week to get rid of it as puss was being constantly leaking out if it, pushed some cotton inside the wound with hydrogen peroxide and it healed...left a bad bad scar tho...

OT: I'm loving my 6950 and my 2 new Asus VE247's LED monitors~ can't wait to play all Ultra on SC2...provided my Athlon II x4 630 @ 3.5ghz can handle it XD


Good question, not sure it can XD Up for a game?









Edit: I believe I have devised the perfect way to improve someone's SCII skills:
Play WC3 for the micro component, SCI for the macro XD


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Good question, not sure it can XD Up for a game?









Edit: I believe I have devised the perfect way to improve someone's SCII skills:
Play WC3 for the micro component, SCI for the macro XD


I'm on right now


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Edit: I believe I have devised the perfect way to improve someone's SCII skills:
Play WC3 for the micro component, SCI for the macro XD


Or just play sc2 more for both.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12106063*
> Or just play sc2 more for both.


lol, I know, I was making a joke although I love both wc3 and sc1 > sc2 atm


----------



## Allenssmart

guys just wondering what happens when 1 person is logged into an account an another person logs onto the same account. does it kick the first person off or what??


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12107012*
> guys just wondering what happens when 1 person is logged into an account an another person logs onto the same account. does it kick the first person off or what??


The person who was playing in the first place gets kicked out and the new one logs in.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12107020*
> The person who was playing in the first place gets kicked out and the new one logs in.


I think this is correct


----------



## yks

Gsl on now!!!~!!


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12107453*
> Gsl on now!!!~!!


I want Jinro vs Nestea!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12107020*
> The person who was playing in the first place gets kicked out and the new one logs in.


We tested this long ago







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108175*
> We tested this long ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


GSL 4 and on SCII pronto! Those Nestea vs. MVP were great games though, too bad you missed them :/

linky: http://www.justin.tv/enigma614#/w/788946080


----------



## DoomDash

What did I miss? Spoil it for me.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

17 kills on gorilla terran's banshee.


----------



## yks

man, that jinro/mkp game on scrap was awesome.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108343*
> What did I miss? Spoil it for me.


What happened:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



nestea could've taken the game, but, he made a critical mistake on shakuras and on JB, he ran his 10+ mutas into marines, otherwise, he had both games and since he won the first game, he would've won 3-1










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12108376*
> 17 kills on gorilla terran's banshee.


lol, tell me about it. They really need to start making more turrets. That banshee wouldn't have gotten anywhere near that many kills with more turrets









^^YES!


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



So does that mean NesTea won ?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108500*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean NesTea won ?


No.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108500*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean NesTea won ?





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



lost, made critical mistakes :/


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Woooooooooooooooo

go foxer


----------



## DoomDash

ah ok. good.


----------



## BigFan

Calling it a night, no point in watching a stream that keeps on pausing every second







Enjoy the rest of the games guys, should be interesting


----------



## DoomDash

Pauses ever minute for me. I'm so tired but I'm gonna stay up and watch.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Can someone please post the gom player stream link? I lost the stream and subsequent stream has got limit exceeded.


----------



## DoomDash

I tell you people like idra who think MarineKing is over rated are just plain blind.


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



sick series, marine king <3 !


----------



## vdek

Those were some good games, well played...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I think Jinro lost because he didn't scout correctly in both games :/


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



For sure on the scouting thing, especially on Steps.

I want MKP to beat MVP.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108702*
> Pauses ever minute for me. I'm so tired but I'm gonna stay up and watch.


nice to know I wasn't the only one, having said that, mine was very 2-3 seconds so much more








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12108759*
> I tell you people like idra who think MarineKing is over rated are just plain blind.


Well, MKP isn't bad, he just relies too much on marines and even with his micro, he can't escape banes that easily, so, it seems foolish if you think about it. Having said that, I do like his playstyle and love his marine micro.
As it stands, everyone is entitled to their opinion as well


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 

Iron Maiden - Fear of the Dark reminds me of Frag or Die ( olddd school CS video ).

JP and friends ( Idra ):
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...5A0C9B55C6AAD7


----------



## DoomDash

I'm glad idra is saying korean Z's aren't using creep tumors for some reason. Anyone notice that? So dumb.


----------



## Gigalisk

Brings up a good question...how do yall feel about Creep Extension? I mean in terms of like main path of travel just to speed up zerg movement/have an FOV of your main path of travel. Other than being a real pain in the ass on the receiving side, i guess its a problem for anyone that cant build on creep (anyone).

How do yall feel?


----------



## thiru

Get an extra queen and lay creep tumors all over the place.


----------



## BigFan

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*   Brings up a good question...how do yall feel about Creep Extension? I mean in terms of like main path of travel just to speed up zerg movement/have an FOV of your main path of travel. Other than being a real pain in the ass on the receiving side, i guess its a problem for anyone that cant build on creep (anyone).

How do yall feel?  
huh? As a Z player, creep extensions if that what you want to call them, are a must. They give you vision, ability to build and speed up units making banes harder to kite on creep, hydras move faster, etc....









Thought you guys will like this:    
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

So, on a side note packers are going to the Super Bowl. yay for my home team.


----------



## Drexra

Wanted to say hi to some fellow SC 2 players here! Any of you watch the GSL last night?


----------



## thiru

Not really interested in the up/down matches..


----------



## Drexra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12117381*
> Not really interested in the up/down matches..


Those start tomorrow, I meant IMNestea V IMMvp and LiquidJinro V Marinekingprime.we


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drexra;12117394*
> Those start tomorrow, I meant IMNestea V IMMvp and LiquidJinro V Marinekingprime.we


Those happened last night. Or this morning.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I caught the MVP vs MKP ones, were nice.


----------



## yks

Thiru, that's why he asked "anyone watch gsl _last night_" =p


----------



## thiru

Oh lol I thought he said tomorrow.


----------



## Drexra

Hahaha, ill be watching those up/down matches too









My laptop can't really handle SC2, so I watch professional matches







A lot


----------



## yks

Doom, I like Idra's comments on Moon.

Gives me hope for Moon once he gets more practice.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12112873*
> I'm glad idra is saying korean Z's aren't using creep tumors for some reason. Anyone notice that? So dumb.


Yeah, I think it's pretty ******ed actually. Not enough APM, lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drexra;12117324*
> Wanted to say hi to some fellow SC 2 players here! Any of you watch the GSL last night?


Only caught IMNestea and the first 2 games of Jinro, too many pauses to enjoy the rest IMO








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12117740*
> Doom, I like Idra's comments on Moon.
> 
> Gives me hope for Moon once he gets more practice.


What did he say?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12118213*
> Yeah, I think it's pretty ******ed actually. Not enough APM, lol.


Wait, so, you're telling me korean Z players don't spread creep?









Edit: ^^Just realized you have the same LCD I do vdek


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12118239*
> 
> What did he say?


He said Moon has a lot of flaws in his play but the bane/ling flank that Moon does is really good and that Idra is trying to incorporate it in his play but doesn't have Moon's micro to make it work well.

So Idra incorporating something from Moon makes me happy since Moon is my favorite wc3 player.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12118407*
> He said Moon has a lot of flaws in his play but the bane/ling flank that Moon does is really good and that Idra is trying to incorporate it in his play but doesn't have Moon's micro to make it work well.
> 
> So Idra incorporating something from Moon makes me happy since Moon is my favorite wc3 player.


Well, considering that Moon is a pro wc3 player, I wouldn't expect his micro to be matched that easily. Having said that, you played wc3?


----------



## yks

Yeah, I was pretty sick with it in wc3, better than I am in SC2 (atm)


----------



## Allenssmart

how do u stop a pf rush as t? i lifted my stuff and my scvs to the gold and he gg'd. is that what i'm supposed to do?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12118598*
> how do u stop a pf rush as t? i lifted my stuff and my scvs to the gold and he gg'd. is that what i'm supposed to do?


edit: lol.... replay?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12118500*
> Yeah, I was pretty sick with it in wc3, better than I am in SC2 (atm)


Nice, nice, I was mostly making a joke







Say, why don't we get a wc3 game going sometime? I just finished installing it last night and I've never played competitively but played the campaign to death(maybe 3+ times on normal and hard) and remembering everything wouldn't be too bad








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12118607*
> edit: lol.... replay?


x2.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I couldn't get back onto the stream for the 3rd game. So ____ won. How did he win? How long was the third game?


----------



## Allenssmart

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=183475


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12118739*
> http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=183475


Yeah that's pretty much how you do it.


----------



## DoomDash

Taking this post of mine from SCC:

*Everything below is NEW to me and still in the experimental stages, I will add more replays and comments as I experience more*.

Now, I was looking through Teamliquids strategy section for some ideas on new TvZ builds. I looked a thread that caught my eye:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183912

Now, I just skimmed that really, but took the basic concepts of it and have been trying it out on my own as well.

*What I do differently, or might not be mentioned in the guide:*

- I do 2 rax FE, but an in base command center because I don't find the risk is worth the reward of moving out your orbital before siege mode. Not sure what timing he was saying you should do that in his thread.

- I do 2 gas as soon as my Command Center is starting to build, and 2 as soon as I move it out on the nat.

- I don't think 3 ports is needed, I use 2 with reactors so far.

- Not sure if he mentioned it, but I try to get + mech armor upgrades ASAP. The reason for this is Thor's are way way better against Zerglings per armor level, and any upgrades to damage first would be over killing most units. A Thor with +1 armor will take 33% more hits from a Zergling to kill, and a Thor with +2 armor will take 100% more hits to kill.

*Why this build is good:*

- Very good economy build

- Very hard to break

- Thors paired with Turrets pretty much nullify muta harass ( you can leave 1 behind near your nat / main to help turrets )

- 12 minutes you will be on or making your 3rd.

- Thors are a STRONG unit

- Ready for Broodlord tech

- Well rounded probably

Now, the guy has his own replays in there, and I'm sharing mine here. Keep in mind I was still warming up when I played this ( sloppy as hell ) and I make a bunch of mistakes ( depot anyone? ). One more important note about that game, if at all possible try and take the 3rd or clear his creep tumors BEFORE his creep spreads to the gold. You'll see that I get kinda screwed because I didn't do that... and it's not the first time ( creep takes FOREVER to go away ).



Not the best Z in the world but a start. Even a Z like that would have gave me troubles with my old builds.

*Potential weakness:*

- Heavy sling w/ upgrades to ultra?

- Sling baneling all ins? *

Thoughts, commments, improvements?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12118650*
> Nice, nice, I was mostly making a joke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say, why don't we get a wc3 game going sometime? I just finished installing it last night and I've never played competitively but played the campaign to death(maybe 3+ times on normal and hard) and remembering everything wouldn't be too bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> x2.


Sorry BigFan, get better at sc2 first, =P My wc3 was (







)on a whole other level.

transitioning to sc2 was like death for me. it was really hard.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12118798*
> Yeah that's pretty much how you do it.


thanks!! + rep


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12118814*
> Sorry BigFan, get better at sc2 first, =P My wc3 was (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )on a whole other level.
> 
> transitioning to sc2 was like death for me. it was really hard.


While I'm sure it is on another level, I can't see how going from wc3 to sc2 was such a killer. SC2 is more macro based but even then, you still need micro which would've been your speciality. Fair enough though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12118806*
> Taking this post of mine from SCC:
> 
> *Everything below is NEW to me and still in the experimental stages, I will add more replays and comments as I experience more*.
> 
> Now, I was looking through Teamliquids strategy section for some ideas on new TvZ builds. I looked a thread that caught my eye:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=183912
> 
> -SNIP-
> 
> Thoughts, commments, improvements?


Interesting build, tanks are definitely needed when moving out, think it's a great idea









Edit: Curious, anyone here thought about modding sc2? Sounds pretty interesting just thinking about the possibilities


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Anyone can answer me re gsl please? How did MKP beat gorilla terran third game?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Anyone can answer me re gsl please? How did MKP beat gorilla terran third game?



mass expanding marine marauder medic ultra aggressive mobile force vs very normal Terran style from Jinro. Fast gold expansion for MKP ect


----------



## DoomDash

Huge image so I'm using spoiler tags, funny stuff though:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well... it is just creep.

so for gsl, it's just like game 2 when mkpwe got the gold and went mobile instead of mass tank and marines. It actually reminds me on slayers boxer vs jhinro on blistering when boxer just went mmm vs jhinro and just out maneuvered him.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12118806*
> - Thors paired with Turrets pretty much nullify muta harass ( you can leave 1 behind near your nat / main to help turrets )


You don't necessarily need thor to stop muta harass. Repair is adequate. I played a master leaguer a few days who was lightning fast on SCV/repair micro. Muta harass was just a waste of money against this guy. He was way too efficient on getting SCV's on the missile turrets, and on everything else. Dude was a repair fiend and reacted to every threat instantly.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I'm talking every where not just near your scvs.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

finally realised I watched that game where mkp took gold on steps. It was the other games I missed. kinda want to buy the ticket to see all the old games.


----------



## DoomDash

In the finals of the first SCC tournament, wish me luck:
http://challonge.com/1scctourneymentlkm

I think qxc's home town is near me. Damn College.


----------



## poroboszcz

For BigFan:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...or_below_your/
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...stalkers_more/


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


In the finals of the first SCC tournament, wish me luck:
http://challonge.com/1scctourneymentlkm

I think qxc's home town is near me. Damn College.


OMG! GL GL GL GL GL GL!!! Win it for OCN XD


----------



## rhed5

Had an epiphany, I am terran now. I shuold've realized this such a long time ago; what a fool I've been. even with nerfs on every single patch, terran is pretty ridiculous. Imagine going back to 1.0 patch now. Will stay terran until next patch.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Had an epiphany, I am terran now. I shuold've realized this such a long time ago; what a fool I've been. even with nerfs on every single patch, terran is pretty ridiculous. Imagine going back to 1.0 patch now. Will stay terran until next patch.












I like playing zerg too much to switch right now, but I do hope they buff them sometime soon.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Had an epiphany, I am terran now. I shuold've realized this such a long time ago; what a fool I've been. even with nerfs on every single patch, terran is pretty ridiculous. Imagine going back to 1.0 patch now. Will stay terran until next patch.


Creeping siege tanks outside the zerg natural are still way powerful, despite all nerfs. A master league guy I played did that to me and crushed me of course. Afterwards I said I didn't understand why this tactic wasn't used in every single TvZ, and that there was really no reason to do anything else. The guy agreed with me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Huge image so I'm using spoiler tags, funny stuff though:
















































Pretty funny, +REP









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You don't necessarily need thor to stop muta harass. Repair is adequate. I played a master leaguer a few days who was lightning fast on SCV/repair micro. Muta harass was just a waste of money against this guy. He was way too efficient on getting SCV's on the missile turrets, and on everything else. Dude was a repair fiend and reacted to every threat instantly.


Having a couple of marines+a medivac and 2 turrets is probably enough. A viking to bait would also help









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


In the finals of the first SCC tournament, wish me luck:
http://challonge.com/1scctourneymentlkm

I think qxc's home town is near me. Damn College.


Congrats, best of luck!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Had an epiphany, I am terran now. I shuold've realized this such a long time ago; what a fool I've been. even with nerfs on every single patch, terran is pretty ridiculous. Imagine going back to 1.0 patch now. Will stay terran until next patch.


Well, you play terran well, but, even then, I would think playing random would be the best option for different unit compositions, strats, etc....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


For BigFan:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...or_below_your/
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...stalkers_more/


Well, I looked through them. It reminded me of that guy on battle.net who lost 60 games to get depromoted to bronze and then worked his way to diamond explaining what he encountered and how long each league took, etc.... Only difference is, this guy is just saying the same basic I've heard, but, adding in a-moving stalkers(comments mention that he does some small micro as in high ground, etc....) and making sure not to scout or harass in his matches. Thanks for the link either way, comments were interesting







+REP.


----------



## thiru

Good luck Doom


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yea goodluck mang


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Had an epiphany, I am terran now. I shuold've realized this such a long time ago; what a fool I've been. even with nerfs on every single patch, terran is pretty ridiculous. Imagine going back to 1.0 patch now. Will stay terran until next patch.


Your Zerg is stronger from what I can tell, much stronger.

But good, now ladder so you can see how good Zerg is.


----------



## yks

Day 1 of Up/Down Matches:

Lyn makes it to Code S~!!!!!! PoltPrime drops from Code S to Code A (oGsTheWind stays)

Inca stays in Code S~!!! 
jooktoJung drops to Code A from Code S
banban moves to Code S from Code A


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Your Zerg is stronger from what I can tell, much stronger.

But good, now ladder so you can see how good Zerg is.


It doesn't help when all you get are T/P/Z vs T/P, so, you never get many practice games against Z, maybe I should find a Z partner







Of course, this is from my league, not at the master level but I'm fairly confident that he'll do just fine against Z


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


It doesn't help when all you get are T/P/Z vs T/P, so, you never get many practice games against Z, maybe I should find a Z partner







Of course, this is from my league, not at the master level but I'm fairly confident that he'll do just fine against Z










Not as fine as he would do as Zerg! His Zerg is by far his best ATM. He even says so and he wins like 80% w/ them. Last time he played me with Z he had 199 APM. I think he thinks that P > Z though, and I guess I don't really know that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not as fine as he would do as Zerg! His Zerg is by far his best ATM. He even says so and he wins like 80% w/ them. Last time he played me with Z he had 199 APM. I think he thinks that *P* > Z though, and I guess I don't really know that.


I think you mean he believes T > Z but I dunno. I haven't played many TvsZ to get to that conclusion yet but early marine harass and then some well micro'd MMM with drops can be really devastating. Using cloaked banshees and doing a drop in main while using a banshee in exp would be hard to deal with because you'll need to target the medivacs while the banshee is off taking shots at your drone. Having said that, I believe TvsZ isn't that far from balance if it needs it, same with PvsZ


----------



## DoomDash

Nah he was complaining about Protoss. I tried arguing that Z was fine against them but I don't really play Z so I can't say.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Your Zerg is stronger from what I can tell, much stronger.

But good, now ladder so you can see how good Zerg is.


Playing with zerg is the most fun, but one of the reasons I am going to play with T is because it is the least stressful to do so. I don't have to play reactionary like with zerg and I am most likely the one dictating the game. I don't know about my win%'s for each race but my protoss is the worst by far (becuase of my poor pvt, pvz i rarely lose) and my tvt is pretty good. I was inspired by MKP against Jinro and am going to copy his style.


----------



## rhed5

ZvP is really really tough, if you play someone who is on your skill level. Same for ZvT but less so.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Playing with zerg is the most fun, but one of the reasons I am going to play with T is because it is the least stressful to do so. I don't have to play reactionary like with zerg and I am most likely the one dictating the game. I don't know about my win%'s for each race but my protoss is the worst by far (becuase of my poor pvt, pvz i rarely lose) and my tvt is pretty good. I was inspired by MKP against Jinro and am going to copy his style.


I saw Boxer do that style vs Jinro first







. Search youtube for Boxer vs Jinro on Blistering Sands.

Use SCII gears and figure out your win %'s.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nah he was complaining about Protoss. I tried arguing that Z was fine against them but I don't really play Z so I can't say.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


ZvP is really really tough, if you play someone who is on your skill level. Same for ZvT but less so.


^^This is the truth regarding ZvsP. I have some difficulties in ZvsP, more so if the opponents gets a good unit combo. Yes, I know about my macro needing work but my spending has improved from what it used to be, so, we'll see if I can maintain that when I play Z









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Playing with zerg is the most fun, but one of the reasons I am going to play with T is because it is the least stressful to do so. I don't have to play reactionary like with zerg and I am most likely the one dictating the game. I don't know about my win%'s for each race but my protoss is the worst by far (becuase of my poor pvt, pvz i rarely lose) and my tvt is pretty good. I was inspired by MKP against Jinro and am going to copy his style.


I dunno, I find all three races fun







I just hate the reactionary bit that you mentioned, feels like I'm pretty restricted to being passive until tier 2 at least at which some muta harass is in order which is the main reason I went the random route


----------



## DoomDash

I like Terran. Might not know that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I like Terran. Might not know that.


lol, how bizzare, I wouldn't have guessed








<--- Points at your avatar


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not as fine as he would do as Zerg! His Zerg is by far his best ATM. He even says so and he wins like 80% w/ them. Last time he played me with Z he had 199 APM. I think he thinks that P > Z though, and I guess I don't really know that.


I think P > Z. I've improved to the point of being okay against plat terrans and zergs but plat toss still kill me usually. I just can't figure out toss at all.


----------



## EmMure

i just had a huge poop and i thought i would share


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Hey guys, quick question.

I seem to have hit a wall (bronze, lol), so I've been playing some custom games. I played against a diamond zerg (I was protoss), and he FE'd me. How do I counter this? Forge FE, 2gate FE, or just 2gate rush?


----------



## roberT_

I know most the discussion in the thread revolves around 1v1 strategy, but as primarily a team player, I'd like to get the ball rolling on some good 'ole team game strategy.

I'll start off. I wanted to share a build I just came up with which was inspired by last weeks Warp Prism funday monday. Here's the build.

9 Pylon
12 Gate
14 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Cyber-Core
17 Zealot
**Stop probe production at 20**
22 Zealot
24 Robo Bay
24 2x Gateway (for 3 total if you're not counting)
24 Stalker
26 2x Pylon
26 Warp Prism
28 Forge

You will get the warp prism out at 6 min. Load in 1 probe and your 2 zealots plus stalker. Find some dead space in an enemy base to drop in, convert to warp mode, immediately make 2 cannons followed by a pylon, warp in 3 stalkers. Meanwhile while you are mid-game cannon rushing in the back if their base with gateway unit support, your allies attack the front.

*I realize its all-in, this is team game, listen to day 9, its not cheese!*
*It will rely on teammate help in the event of 5 min pushes*

Hoping to try this with some OCN'ers later this week.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raptor_Jesus;12125981*
> Hey guys, quick question.
> 
> I seem to have hit a wall (bronze, lol), so I've been playing some custom games. I played against a diamond zerg (I was protoss), and he FE'd me. How do I counter this? Forge FE, 2gate FE, or just 2gate rush?


FE'd you as in? You mean he went for good ol' 15 exp 14 pool? Well, if you can execute a 4 gate well, then you can pressure him, taking it out and likely take the game. You can alternatively get an exp up as you harass him and then go for a timing push. I'm random and haven't had a ton of PvsZ experience, but, I believe those would work. You can ff his ramp during attack to stop reinforcements, take out exp and then wrap in more units by having a pylon near his base before a final assault. This is something that I would do. Everyone, agree/disagree?


----------



## DoomDash

Cannon rush.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12127535*
> Cannon rush.


Cheeser!!!!!









Having cleared that up, I still think 4 gating is your best option, although, getting your own exp, something like 2 gate FE would probably work provided you keep on top of WG cooling time and chronoboosting them to reduce the time


----------



## DoomDash

Cannon rushing vs Zerg FE is seriously good.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12129145*
> Cannon rushing vs Zerg FE is seriously good.


I never said it's bad but I would think 4 gating or going for his own FE so that he can work on his macro/micro would be a better idea plus cannon rushing sounds too cheesy


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think any type of rush punishing a 14 hatch~ is cheesy. It's like going 15 command center and getting proxy barracks rushed... it's just smart.


----------



## Allenssmart

5 raxing zerg fe players is SUPER EFFECTIVE. i'm silver and i was able to gg a platinum guy with it. holy crap this is good. there's almost no defense if they don't react fast enough with 10 spine crawlers lmao


----------



## thiru

Why 5rax when 2rax bunker rush works just as well...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12129880*
> I don't think any type of rush punishing a 14 hatch~ is cheesy. It's like going 15 command center and getting proxy barracks rushed... it's just smart.


Point acknowledged








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12130117*
> 5 raxing zerg fe players is SUPER EFFECTIVE. i'm silver and i was able to gg a platinum guy with it. holy crap this is good. there's almost no defense if they don't react fast enough with 10 spine crawlers lmao


Well, a couple of banes would take out all your units(assuming marines)


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Wow. Go to play SC2 for the first time since buying it and my account was locked by Blizzard because of me not logging in for so long.

How moronic is this :/

Had to change my password now to log in since apparently if I don't play EVERY SINGLE DAY they will lock your account.


----------



## vdek

Blinker, did you play against some guy named Konata and get PF rushed?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Blinker, did you play against some guy named Konata and get PF rushed?


yeah respond!


----------



## Firann

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I never said it's bad but I would think 4 gating or going for his own FE so that he can work on his macro/micro would be a better idea plus cannon rushing sounds too cheesy










I follow Korean rules... They do not know what cheese is ;P Everything is a tactic. ^^


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Looks like a cool music video, too bad I don't have sound atm.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Why 5rax when 2rax bunker rush works just as well...


he said he was in silver.

personally i love zerg going 14 hatch, since I'm going forge Fe and then 6 gate +1 weap or 5 gate plus tech unit. Beat them every time. Roach or ling run by on one base, on the other hand is a lil tough to defend against when 15 fe-ing for toss.


----------



## DoomDash

Does anyone else feel like Banelings are the future of ZvP? They have lots of ways to battle them, but that AoE is so good when it hits.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Blinker, did you play against some guy named Konata and get PF rushed?


Yea it was on TLKoth, why?

Here's the replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yea it was on TLKoth, why?

Here's the replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


It was on day9 apparently.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Just watched the Funday. Blinker vs Konata was on it


----------



## DoomDash

It's up on http://day9tv.blip.tv/


----------



## DoomDash

From reddit:

"This is what it's like being #1 in my Bronze league"

  
 You Tube


----------



## Liamo Luo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


From reddit:

"This is what it's like being #1 in my Bronze league"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LltEzmtTewg


I'm second in my Bronze, team who are first are about 500 points ahead  
But yeah, it pretty much feels like that.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Yea it was on TLKoth, why?

Here's the replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


Haha, well you were on day9 then!

Day9 was making fun of you because you pretty much had won the game when you gg'd out!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Does anyone else feel like Banelings are the future of ZvP? They have lots of ways to battle them, but that AoE is so good when it hits.



No, the splash sucks because the main toss units are armored.

I think, in the near future Blizzard is going to fix Ultralisks by making them move the same way as collosus, at least I hope they do. If they do this, then zerg will have a viable counter to protoss deathball.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Haha, well you were on day9 then!

Day9 was making fun of you because you pretty much had won the game when you gg'd out!


Lol, no wai! I gotta see this.

I think I left for lulz because I got bored of making carriers, and everyone else has left already. Maybe if I didn't it wouldn't be on the daily. I can't believe he even watched the whole thing lol.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12133740*
> Does anyone else feel like Banelings are the future of ZvP? They have lots of ways to battle them, but that AoE is so good when it hits.


I'm not saying yes or no, but in the past 2 weeks I've encountered 4 forms of baneling builds against me, personally.

And I was wondering what the heck is going on that I'm not aware about.

Granted I won 3 of the 4, I still wondered what was going on.

Like Day9 says time and time and time again. When you see a new strat, never automatically think it's bad because it's out of the norm from what you usually see. Instead think of reasons of _why_ it's good and _why_ it would be used.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well, i've encountered them in plat before months ago. I don't think it will be the new zvp since there are a lot more things that work better. Baneling drop on probe line though, almost impossible to stop.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12135950*
> Lol, no wai! I gotta see this.
> 
> I think I left for lulz because I got bored of making carriers, and everyone else has left already. Maybe if I didn't it wouldn't be on the daily. I can't believe he even watched the whole thing lol.


Hahahaha I just watched that xD
Shoulda BM'd more


----------



## roberT_

wonder if you could have pulled of mass recall before that mothership died... would have been GG then


----------



## thiru

It was GG pretty much no matter what he did...


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12135950*
> Lol, no wai! I gotta see this.
> 
> I think I left for lulz because I got bored of making carriers, and everyone else has left already. Maybe if I didn't it wouldn't be on the daily. I can't believe he even watched the whole thing lol.


He was completely mined out though, heh.


----------



## slytown

Are there any good custom hotkey maps out there, or does everyone basically stick to the given default/grid/classic types?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12138093*
> Are there any good custom hotkey maps out there, or does everyone basically stick to the given default/grid/classic types?


I just modified my race's hotkeys so that everything is on the left side of the keyboard. I'm too used to the classic to switch to grid.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Firann;12131518*
> I follow Korean rules... They do not know what cheese is ;P Everything is a tactic. ^^


lol, true. Even if an opponent won against me, I'll mention he cheesed but it's all part of the game so I don't really complain. It's mostly to keep in line with those that think strats such as cannon contain/rush, 6 pool, 2 rax, etc.... are cheese and shouldn't be used. I like my variety








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12135415*
> Haha, well you were on day9 then!
> 
> Day9 was making fun of you because you pretty much had won the game when you gg'd out!
> 
> No, the splash sucks because the main toss units are armored.
> 
> I think, in the near future Blizzard is going to fix Ultralisks by making them move the same way as collosus, at least I hope they do. If they do this, then zerg will have a viable counter to protoss deathball.


lol @ day9 thing.

As for banes, well, they are pretty decent against zealots, so, I think if the opponent is going mass chargelots, banes are the way to go, besides of course roaches, because chargelots are melee units and the splash from one bane will likely get a couple more chargelots due to the surround that they usually try to achieve when attacking. hmm, maybe I should start using slings/banes against zealot+stalker army with some roaches added in for backup








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12136303*
> I'm not saying yes or no, but in the past 2 weeks I've encountered 4 forms of baneling builds against me, personally.
> 
> And I was wondering what the heck is going on that I'm not aware about.
> 
> Granted I won 3 of the 4, I still wondered what was going on.
> 
> Like Day9 says time and time and time again. When you see a new strat, never automatically think it's bad because it's out of the norm from what you usually see. *Instead think of reasons of why it's good and why it would be used.*


See reason above^^


----------



## DoomDash

Vdek I've seen Koreans use banelings for drops against huge Protoss balls and slaughter with it. They are still very very cost efficient against Armored if they are in a ball, which pretty much almost always happens automatically. I keep seeing more and more replays with banelings being used against Protoss so I'm just curious if that will one day become the norm. I wouldn't be surprised.

Also I highly doubt Ultras will ever get a buff again, they are already pretty good IMO. Maybe what idrA says is true that they are a killing blow unit but they are damn good at that, and when I play Z every tech switch to Ultra I've done vs a Terran has won me the game.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Also, Fruitdealer knocked inca out few GSLs ago I believe with banelings


----------



## rhed5

Ultras aren't what they were in BW. Marauders counter them so hard it's not even funny. The reason you probably win if you have ultras isn't because they are strong and effective but rather you were already in a situation where you had a significant lead and had the luxury to produce them. Now with the weakened adrenaline glands of zerglings, there is even less firepower during this late stage of the game for Z. Going for ultras in a close game is recipe for disaster.

As for banelings, First, how are you even going to use them against a big ball when there are sentrys? Next, they are armored. who knows in the future but i am unconvinced by them against p. I need every little bit of gas for mutas or hydras, upgrades and a suiciding unit for armored units doesn't sound appealing to me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12139099*
> Ultras aren't what they were in BW. Marauders counter them so hard it's not even funny. The reason you probably win if you have ultras isn't because they are strong and effective but rather you were already in a situation where you had a significant lead and had the luxury to produce them. Now with the weakened adrenaline glands of zerglings, there is even less firepower during this late stage of the game for Z. Going for ultras in a close game is recipe for disaster.
> 
> As for banelings, First, how are you even going to use them against a big ball when there are sentrys? Next, they are armored. who knows in the future but i am unconvinced by them against p. I need every little bit of gas for mutas or hydras, upgrades and a suiciding unit for armored units doesn't sound appealing to me.


I don't believe Marauders are a hard counter for Ultras at all. Off creep with medivacs yes, but defensively ( on creep ) with slings / banes paired in they will tear through just about anything.

Baneling bombs from overlords. If MasterLaw was on here he would comment he's had some luck with this against Protoss as well.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12139242*
> *I don't believe Marauders are a hard counter for Ultras* at all. Off creep with medivacs yes, but defensively ( on creep ) with slings / banes paired in they will tear through just about anything.
> 
> Baneling bombs from overlords. If MasterLaw was on here he would comment he's had some luck with this against Protoss as well.


I disagree wholeheartedly. At that point in the game, marauders don't travel by themselves, there is a whole terran army ball, to counter all those units. They are easily a direct counter.

Baneling bombs are nice, but a luxury most zerg players just can't afford. It just costs too much money in close games.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I wholeheartedly disagree with your wholeheartedly disagreeing. I've lost to Ultras with plenty of Marauders many many many times, **** even on Steps of War with equal bases. I believe its situational but you certainly can't say just build Marauders. Even Blizzard said Ultras can deal with Marauders, which is what they intended with the past changes.


----------



## rhed5

OK that really isn't saying much though. I will say the exact same thing and say I've lost against marauders when i went Ultras with more bases. I mean, come on man.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12139697*
> OK that really isn't saying much though. I will say the exact same thing and say I've lost against marauders when i went Ultras with more bases. I mean, come on man.


What do you want me to say? Do you want me to write a formula proving it? Its pretty much impossible to improve beyond experience, and I can almost bet you I've at least played more TvZ than you. I am not the one making it seem like Ultras > Marauders, or Marauders > Ultra's, you are. I'm telling you its not nearly as lopsided as you make it seem.

Quite frankly your recent posts about Zerg seem out of character for my initial impressions of you. You make it sound far worse than it is if anything.

Zerg doesn't suck, and still to this very day I don't believe you believe anything you are saying.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12135415*
> I think, in the near future Blizzard is going to fix Ultralisks by making them move the same way as collosus, at least I hope they do. If they do this, then zerg will have a viable counter to protoss deathball.


What needs to happen IMO is ultralisk should be allowed to walk over non-massive units. That would make a huge difference in their effectiveness. They wouldn't be constantly hung up in traffic jams. You could pair up your ultras with mass zerglings and roaches and actually do some effective micro, which is almost impossible now. And the colossi and immortals would no longer be able to just sit behind an impenetrable meat shield and slaughter the whole zerg ground army.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What do you want me to say? Do you want me to write a formula proving it? Its pretty much impossible to improve beyond experience, and I can almost bet you I've at least played more TvZ than you. I am not the one making it seem like Ultras > Marauders, or Marauders > Ultra's, you are. I'm telling you its not nearly as lopsided as you make it seem.

Quite frankly your recent posts about Zerg seem out of character for my initial impressions of you. You make it sound far worse than it is if anything.

Zerg doesn't suck, and still to this very day I don't believe you believe anything you are saying.


I really believe in what I say. Why would I not? Ultras as a unit are fine, but what I am saying is zerg can't afford to go to them, evne if they do, they just aren't worth it. Zerg suffers the most from terrible maps, and are the most volatile race by far where single decisions cost you the game, whereas that is less likely with terran. There is so much to say about this but I will stop here as I don't think we will convince each other.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I really believe in what I say. Why would I not? Ultras as a unit are fine, but what I am saying is zerg can't afford to go to them, evne if they do, they just aren't worth it. Zerg suffers the most from terrible maps, and are the most volatile race by far where single decisions cost you the game, whereas that is less likely with terran. There is so much to say about this but I will stop here as I don't think we will convince each other.


Yeah we won't agree.


----------



## yks

You Tube  



 
the GSL foreigner house tour.

GSL will give you a free place to stay/computer to practice on

all you gotta do is pay for your ticket and pay for food.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I read a funny comment today on the bnet forums - funny because it's true. A diamond zerg said ultra is the "insult unit" that you use to finish a beaten opponent who refuses to gg. That actually is the only successful use I've ever made of ultras in a game. A couple days ago I had a plat terran bottled up on one end of the map and he wouldn't come out from behind his tanks and bunkers. The guy was beaten. I made a bunch of ultras and just rammed the whole ball of them straight into the natural. I never would have built the ultras if I thought the outcome of the game was still in doubt. I have to admit it was fun to watch the ultras smashing stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

Ultras are good as hell IMO. One of my favorite units in SCII. I prefer them over SC1 Ultras any day ( splash, yes plz ).


----------



## Allenssmart

guys i need major help. i hate banelings. I am currently raging but trying to restrain myself. Banelings are the most op things since the history of forever. No i'm not trolling. I am terran and in the past 20 matches i haven't lost to t or p, but i've lost about 10 times to z. How do you stop banelings? It's not possible imo, they are cheap and fast and one baneling is capable of killing 20 marines in one hit. Can someobody please help me? I'm really raging at myself and frustrated right now!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Ultras aren't what they were in BW. Marauders counter them so hard it's not even funny. The reason you probably win if you have ultras isn't because they are strong and effective but rather you were already in a situation where you had a significant lead and had the luxury to produce them. Now with the weakened adrenaline glands of zerglings, there is even less firepower during this late stage of the game for Z. Going for ultras in a close game is recipe for disaster.

As for banelings, First, how are you even going to use them against a big ball when there are sentrys? Next, they are armored. who knows in the future but i am unconvinced by them against p. I need every little bit of gas for mutas or hydras, upgrades and a suiciding unit for armored units doesn't sound appealing to me.


kinda disagree. i've lost to baneling as p before when I was just not ready for a bust. Banelings from above is really powerful too. You're not looking to focus fire overlords when roach hydras are already there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


What needs to happen IMO is ultralisk should be allowed to walk over non-massive units. That would make a huge difference in their effectiveness. They wouldn't be constantly hung up in traffic jams. You could pair up your ultras with mass zerglings and roaches and actually do some effective micro, which is almost impossible now. And the colossi and immortals would no longer be able to just sit behind an impenetrable meat shield and slaughter the whole zerg ground army.


please... stop adding to my nightmares. If they add that in the game I think I might tap out. Protoss really don't have much in high tiered units to go 1 on 1 with zerg T3 units.


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't get how people can say that zerg is weak. I actually think it's allpretty balanced at the moment, but zerg is the hardest race to play against.

Anyway I had this game today in koth again. It was my turn against a zerg who was on about 10 winning streak, but I obsed some of his games so kinda knew what to expect. The game was on shakuras so I prepared for a decent macro game and had all the plan in my head. Also having a lot of pvz practice i was feeling pretty confident. Because I scouted him last I just decided to wait at his natural and delay his hatch. And just when I was about to put a pylon there 6 lings ran down his ramp. FUUUUUU


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Zerg is weak:

1. zerg has to be the one that decide whether to focus on economic game or defend while intel is limited.

2. maxxed out zerg army is quite weak compared to other maxxed

But there are other points atm that make zerg one of the better races, like quick tech change, best macro race, map hacks and powerful t3 units.


----------



## Katana

That might be okay, I'd think, if scouting were very easy. For instance, I don't know how often pros use Changelings, but I'd think constantly putting those out would keep you fully updated on your opponent.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Zerg is weak:

1. zerg has to be the one that decide whether to focus on economic game or defend while intel is limited.

2. maxxed out zerg army is quite weak compared to other maxxed

But there are other points atm that make zerg one of the better races, like quick tech change, best macro race, map hacks and powerful t3 units.


Maxed out Zerg army is pretty sick vs Terran, and really you don't need to compare the two because its supposed to be that way since Zerg can replace it all in a second.

Anyway, I think the game is pretty balanced right now. Certain points in the match ups obviously favor certain races, and some races of points in these spots where its much easier to play. Each race has its own weak points, but to say Zerg is weak is just crazy talk.

All are good.

PS: 2700+ Masters!!!


----------



## Allenssmart

since nobody has replied to my post yet i assume that you guys all do not have any counter for banelings, even 2700+ masters. If you do, please reply. I really need help against banes.


----------



## thiru

What race?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


since nobody has replied to my post yet i assume that you guys all do not have any counter for banelings, even 2700+ masters. If you do, please reply. I really need help against banes.


I'm assuming you play Terran. TBH banelings are incredibly hard for Terran, by far Terran biggest problem unit in the game. Lots of things you can do to help:

Put your armored units in front ( Marauders, Thors ).

If you are doing Marine Marauder Tank, slow push / leap frog with tanks, and when he sends in lings/banes stim and fall back to your tanks to let them clean up the banelings.

Load a medivac with Marauders and drop them on top of baneling balls.

Very good marine stim micro.

Very good marine splitting ( pretty hard but can be done ).

ect.


----------



## thiru

Don't fight on creep.


----------



## Mwarren

The best piece of advice that I can give you is that leaving your thors next to your tanks is pretty much a must. It keeps the mutas from picking off your tanks and they help tank damage from the banes. Pull back your marines when the zerg rolls in with his banes/lings and split your marines to minimize bane damage.

EDIT: I still think that the late game zerg units can hold their own against the late game toss units. Infestors for fungal growth, roach/hydra/corruptor just rapes. I think that zerg just hasent been used to its full potential yet. Corruptors can drop their 20% more damage ability, infestors can halt stalkers with fungal growth or even try mind controlling the collosus.


----------



## thiru




----------



## DoomDash

rep


----------



## yellowtoblerone

problem is they all look the same. jhinro should be chubaka.

who's playing tonight?


----------



## DoomDash

So I pmed qxc on TL about his home town, cause I noticed he posted in a WI and IL tournament thread about possibly showing up. He apparently lived in Northshore IL, which is pretty close to me. Hope he does come to a local tournament sometime.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So I pmed qxc on TL about his home town, cause I noticed he posted in a WI and IL tournament thread about possibly showing up. He apparently lived in Northshore IL, which is pretty close to me. Hope he does come to a local tournament sometime.


I thought qxc went to study in Spain.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure he did, could be older posts... I didn't pay attention. I'm saying some day if his family is in IL he will most likely go back to visit.


----------



## thiru

Oh didn't see the past tense.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2058906#blog


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I really believe in what I say. Why would I not? Ultras as a unit are fine, but what I am saying is zerg can't afford to go to them, evne if they do, they just aren't worth it. Zerg suffers the most from terrible maps, and are the most volatile race by far where *single decisions cost you the game*, whereas that is less likely with terran. There is so much to say about this but I will stop here as I don't think we will convince each other.


I hear that loud and clear









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


EDIT: I still think that the late game zerg units can hold their own against the late game toss units. Infestors for fungal growth, roach/hydra/corruptor just rapes. I think that zerg just hasent been used to its full potential yet. Corruptors can drop their 20% more damage ability, infestors can halt stalkers with fungal growth or even try mind controlling the collosus.


Infestors require a lot of gas and their range is short allowing your opponent to make a quick work out of such an expensive unit. Corruptors might be able to add on 20% more damage, but, making them when you can concentrate on a ground army is a bad tradeoff. Roach/hydra as a combo isn't bad, although, I haven't had to rely on it to win any of my games as Z


----------



## yellowtoblerone

no gsl tonigt?


----------



## DoomDash

There is, starts in 40~ minutes.


----------



## vdek

Left 2 Die is pretty damned hard...


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12120712*
> In the finals of the first SCC tournament, wish me luck:
> http://challonge.com/1scctourneymentlkm


How'd you do?


----------



## civilian_pr0ject

so jediwin was nice enough to referee me vs a hard AI and taught me the skills i didn't know i could have.
previous 1v1 record was something like 12 and 20. since last night i have lost 2 games, a 4v4 with ****e team and a 1v1 against a good player.

check it out!


----------



## Nevaziah

Impressive. Keep it up. I smell a promotion coming for ya soon if it holds


----------



## yks

hahaha last nights GSL:

TSL_Rain got knocked to Code A. i knew this was gonna happen.


----------



## Idra

Terran and protoss op!

Buff zerg.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

why does playing 4v4 give you so much more points than your 1v1 games?


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *civilian_pr0ject;12150116*
> so jediwin was nice enough to referee me vs a hard AI and taught me the skills i didn't know i could have.
> previous 1v1 record was something like 12 and 20. since last night i have lost 2 games, a 4v4 with ****e team and a 1v1 against a good player.
> 
> check it out!


great work! remember to keep making scv's and units!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

After watching GSL I have to say the skill level of top players are ahead of NA pros. I can't help but get annoyed watching NA games now. All I want to watch is GSL games.


----------



## civilian_pr0ject

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


why does playing 4v4 give you so much more points than your 1v1 games?


same question.
maybe because you defeat so many more enemies at once?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *civilian_pr0ject;12150897*
> same question.
> maybe because you defeat so many more enemies at once?


I'm guessing it's because you lost too many games in a row and got to 0 ladder points, and although the game doesn't let you have negative points, it remembers it and gives you half or less points when you win games until you get 'above 0'. Happened to someone I know.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *civilian_pr0ject*


so jediwin was nice enough to referee me vs a hard AI and taught me the skills i didn't know i could have.
previous 1v1 record was something like 12 and 20. since last night i have lost 2 games, a 4v4 with ****e team and a 1v1 against a good player.

check it out!


Nice work, keep at it. As mentioned, you'll likely play against higher level opponents and eventually get a promotion









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I'm guessing it's because you lost too many games in a row and got to 0 ladder points, and although the game doesn't let you have negative points, it remembers it and gives you half or less points when you win games until you get 'above 0'. Happened to someone I know.


Actually, they were asking why he got 38 points from a win in a 4vs4 in comparison to something like 20 or so with bonus pool in a 1vs1. My guess is more opponents


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Actually, they were asking why he got 38 points from a win in a 4vs4 in comparison to something like 20 or so with bonus pool in a 1vs1. My guess is more opponents










No it doesn't work that way.
I just checked his profile and he has 0 points. So it's exactly as I said. The stats says he has 0 points but in reality he has negative points so it's giving him a fraction of the points he's supposed to get until his hidden ladder score is 'positive'.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Left 2 Die is pretty damned hard...


Try playing it on Brutal I got owned super hard after night 3 they hunter lings came out of no where and I didn't have a PP up and the Spotter overlords came 4 at a time and just pwned me.

I had a plat teammate too who didn't suck but we got worked.

I don't really latter but I play around Plat level with outs in custom games.

Hey if anyone wants to play Coop 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 vs insane CPU tonight let me know. Please don't suck. I'm good with Toss, Ok with Terran and working on my Zerg

Add me if you want to play
QuadDamage
Code 454


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


No it doesn't work that way.
I just checked his profile and he has 0 points. So it's exactly as I said. The stats says he has 0 points but in reality he has negative points so it's giving him a fraction of the points he's supposed to get until his hidden ladder score is 'positive'.


A fraction? So, he didn't get all 38 points according to the match history?







I have heard of this error you speak of though


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


After watching GSL I have to say the skill level of top players are ahead of NA pros. I can't help but get annoyed watching NA games now. All I want to watch is GSL games.


I used to think like that, but there are few really good foreigners as well. Speaking only about protoss I was really impressed by recent KiWiKaKi games against Machine and Morrow (forgot the event). Also White-Ra is pretty damn good, and he mentioned in one of the recent interviews there's 50% chance he'll go to Korea, which would be awesome.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


A fraction? So, he didn't get all 38 points according to the match history?







I have heard of this error you speak of though










No he got all 38 of those because they're in 4v4. I'm talking about his 1v1s where he gets 4-8 points. It's not because he's favored since he's at the bottom of the ladder.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


How'd you do?


Still waiting to play the finals.

I survived 23 minutes IIRC on the hardest setting in left 2 die. Lost when the Nydus worms came.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Still waiting to play the finals.

I survived 23 minutes IIRC on the hardest setting in left 2 die. Lost when the Nydus worms came.


The key to win is to get the medic upgrade fast and next tech should be tanks, they will save your ass.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=187954

Episode 2 with iNcontrol is out!


----------



## thiru

Those shows are pretty cool. The pro player basically coaches JP and you learn quite a few things if you're not diamond or whatever. Last episode was with Idra so zerg players watch that one.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Old memories...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInI6eldVvE[/ame]


----------



## slytown

Day9 stream in 10 min....


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I so want that tasteless t shirt.


----------



## Allenssmart

i finally found out how to beat banelings. switch to protoss. but now i suck. any protoss players want to help me?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12157188*
> i finally found out how to beat banelings. switch to protoss. but now i suck. any protoss players want to help me?


lol

Watch the link with JP and incontrol that Doomdash posted.

edit: some of these too
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177791


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12157188*
> i finally found out how to beat banelings. switch to protoss. but now i suck. any protoss players want to help me?


now you'll ask, how do you stop:

muta, roach, speed runby, baneling drop in mineral lines, hydras, mmm, ghost, siege tanks, banshee.


----------



## thiru

More like he'll complain about pvp.


----------



## vdek

Now that he's protoss he's going to ask how to stop roaches.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12151653*
> No he got all 38 of those because they're in 4v4. I'm talking about his 1v1s where he gets 4-8 points. It's not because he's favored since he's at the bottom of the ladder.


ok, I was referring to his 4vs4 not 1vs1








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12157188*
> i finally found out how to beat banelings. switch to protoss. but now i suck. any protoss players want to help me?


XD
Bad idea, banelings are getting used more and more in ZvsP games. Only difference is you need 2+ bane for one zealot but since the units are always clustered together, it wouldn't matter. A couple of banes would take out a lot of zealots especially when you consider their melee attack. Of course, marines go down faster but you have siege tanks and spreading marines, kiting, etc.... helps against them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12157398*
> Now that he's protoss he's going to ask how to stop roaches.


lol, true, although, stalkers > roaches especially if you use blink and kite roaches


----------



## yellowtoblerone

roaches are good vs stalkers. plus theres burrow


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12157398*
> Now that he's protoss he's going to ask how to stop roaches.


heck, i'm still asking that

roaches are too OP.









stalkers don't > roaches, bigfan. yeah you can kite off creep, but when it comes crunch time, nah son.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12157620*
> roaches are good vs stalkers. plus theres burrow


I rarely see Zerg players burrow. Is that because burrow works for certain micro strats?


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187321

haha, some of the questions were funny.

a fruitdealer interview.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12157479*
> ok, I was referring to his 4vs4 not 1vs1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XD
> Bad idea, banelings are getting used more and more in ZvsP games. Only difference is you need 2+ bane for one zealot but since the units are always clustered together, it wouldn't matter. A couple of banes would take out a lot of zealots especially when you consider their melee attack. Of course, marines go down faster but you have siege tanks and spreading marines, kiting, etc.... helps against them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, true, although, stalkers > roaches especially if you use blink and kite roaches


You need 5 banelings to kill zealots....


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12157479*
> lol, true, although, stalkers > roaches especially if you use blink and kite roaches


Roaches with burrow > stalkers with blink IMO.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12157934*
> Roaches with burrow > stalkers with blink IMO.


Burrow isn't that big of a deal. It's roaches with speed on creep that makes them deadly.


----------



## slytown

Just found this. Hilarious.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHG40AdYfJ0&feature=related[/ame]

Thiru, you should add the State of the Game podcast to the first post. Hilarious and informative stuff. Search on youtube "State of the Game Podcast" and watch "Who is Artosis?" and "State of the Game - Horses". Day9 actually leaves the podcast because he's laughing so much.

http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/


----------



## DoomDash

So old







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12157654*
> *heck, i'm still asking that*
> 
> roaches are too OP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stalkers don't > roaches, bigfan. yeah you can kite off creep, but when it comes crunch time, nah son.


If you consider costs and straight up fight, then yes, roaches are better because they are 50/25 less as I recall and stalkers only win by 35hp. Once you factor in range, speed of stalkers, AA, micro, etc.... then stalkers come ahead bigtime. Of course, roaches can get a speed upgrade, but, that's why there are chokes that can easily be created using ff by a little unit called a sentry. Likewise, maps have tons of chokes, so, use that to your advantage. I believe that there was a thread on TL talking about mass blink stalkers and how power they can be written by one of the TL members, can't recall name though. Be sure to give it a read because it'll likely help your game against Z









BTW, thanks for that FD interview, such bizzare questions and answers:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Is it true that the food in the TSL house is the best?
dear MKP, the instant you eat some food we have here in the TSL house could be the moment you decide to change teams. Come join us for a meal sometime.

Marines according to FruitDealer:
Marines... soon to be nerfed units ^^.

What's your favorite zerg unit?
My favorite unit really is the larva. I get that proud feeling when I see them swarming under the hatchery...

What's the biggest advantage you get from being a Zerg?
Getting enough drones so I can *pool 30 or so larvae and pump 30 or so units at once* with them when needed, and then winning... When I get to do that I think to myself: "*Damn I played some fine Zerg right there*".

What do Banelings mean to you?
The reason I play Zerg! *So cute and reliable*. Melting marines with them after some fungals, CUTE!!

Which units do you hate the most?
Mules, Marines, Tanks, Thors, Vikings, Banshees, Medivacs,
Stalkers, Sentries, Dark Templars, Void Rays, Warp Prisms, Phoenixes, Colossi.
Not that many I guess...



Favourite questions/answers:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Aren't you unconfortable with the match history being public?
Not at all. I don't prepare for upcoming games designing specific builds, that's not my style, and also when I'm serious about practice I do so with other, unknown ids. It does have some inconveniences, I guess.

Have you thought about switching races?
I was thinking about going Random in S3 had I done well in S2, but I failed. I have not given up completely yet though... I may switch in the future if I manage to get some satisfying results.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12157665*
> I rarely see Zerg players burrow. Is that because burrow works for certain micro strats?


Good question, I don't have any reason for not using it. More cases than not, my opponent will just scan or have an observer so I would rather do some damage and have my roaches taken out then have his units take free shots








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12157808*
> You need 5 banelings to kill zealots....


I know, my point was mostly to do a comparison, as in 2 for marines but zealots need more, hence the 2*+* part








Gotta remember that while marines require less banes, you still have the ability to kite them which is impossible for zealots








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12157934*
> Roaches with burrow > stalkers with blink IMO.


How many times do you use burrow in your games? All I know is that I'm too busy defending against the constant MMM ball or zealot+stalker combo I keep on seeing and forget to research burrow or regeneration for roaches. Planning to start researching burrow more often after that ZvsT game I had with jedi where he kept on roasting my poor drones with his blue flame hellions. I believe I had more than 150 workers by the end of the game XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12158115*
> Burrow isn't that big of a deal. It's roaches with speed on creep that makes them deadly.


Well, taking down the creep highway with 2 stalkers+observer is the ideal situation before engaging speed roaches and of course, ffing, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

I wonder if that Marine comment has any truth to it, if so poor Terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12158584*
> I wonder if that Marine comment has any truth to it, if so poor Terran.


hmm, well, most on TL believes that it's a joke. Will blizzard ever nerf them? Well, think of it this way, marines are nerfed, banes are nerfed as a result, etc.... Basically, you'll have a chain of nerfs that will only end when Blizzard decides to end it, so, I'm guessing not anytime soon









Either way, I haven't had a chance to go mass marines in any of my games, so, I'm hoping they don't nerf them anytime soon XD


----------



## thiru

lol @ the game that just ended....


----------



## yellowtoblerone

oh lol

Leenockfou just rolled liveforever, he ran speedlings into the gas lines in leenock's expansion on shakuras, then morphed them into banelings, then destroyed most of leenock's scv's.

Tasteless was like, "Wow we just saw for the first time scvs retreating into the middle of the map, Artosis".

Just so funny that tvp


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


oh lol

Leenockfou just rolled liveforever, he ran speedlings into the gas lines in leenock's expansion on shakuras, then morphed them into banelings, then destroyed most of leenock's scv's.

Tasteless was like, "Wow we just saw for the first time scvs retreating into the middle of the map, Artosis".

Just so funny that tvp


Yeah
if they hadn't died, the scvs would have retreated into the creep. xD


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I missed the last tvp between top v legalm. who won that match on delta?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

NOOOOOOOOoo probes nooo

this is why i don't like terran in tvp. They can one base you while you go 2gate 1robo expand or 3gate expand, and if it doesn't work they'll expand and still beat p in income and macro. This is all the while if toss expands to two base macro terran can just one base roflstomp them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


NOOOOOOOOoo probes nooo

this is why i don't like terran in tvp. They can one base you while you go 2gate 1robo expand or 3gate expand, and if it doesn't work they'll expand and still beat p in income and macro. This is all the while if toss expands to two base macro terran can just one base roflstomp them.


Not really. I always expand either before or around the same time as Protoss, and really its the only way to survive against a FE Protoss ( or a timing attack to punish expo ).


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


If you consider costs and straight up fight, then yes, roaches are better because they are 50/25 less as I recall and stalkers only win by 35hp. Once you factor in range, speed of stalkers, AA, micro, etc.... then stalkers come ahead bigtime. Of course, roaches can get a speed upgrade, but, that's why there are chokes that can easily be created using ff by a little unit called a sentry. Likewise, maps have tons of chokes, so, use that to your advantage. I believe that there was a thread on TL talking about mass blink stalkers and how power they can be written by one of the TL members, can't recall name though. Be sure to give it a read because it'll likely help your game against Z










You can't add in sentries. That makes it 175/150 (4food) just for 50/25 (2food) units. So sentries just makes the roach argument even more in favor of the Roach cause of the food+money

Sorry, Roach scaling is just too good. +2 Roach deals 20dmg to all, +2 Stalker deals 13(16armored)

The only benefit a stalker has is speed, which gets negated on creep.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not really. I always expand either before or around the same time as Protoss, and really its the only way to survive against a FE Protoss ( or a timing attack to punish expo ).


I don't think my communication was that great in the ideas I wanted to get across. Artosis said what I meant to say in one of his pvt tutorial videos about terran all ins and fall back with expo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You can't add in sentries. That makes it 175/150 (4food) just for 50/25 (2food) units. So sentries just makes the roach argument even more in favor of the Roach cause of the food+money

Sorry, Roach scaling is just too good. +2 Roach deals 20dmg to all, +2 Stalker deals 13(16armored)

The only benefit a stalker has is speed, which gets negated on creep.


You don't need sentries if you engage near a choke which all the maps have. My main point is you can make stalkers then add in a sentry for some ffing instead of making another stalker(yes I know about 150 to 50 gas). Roach scaling is quite good though, I like it







Stalkers also have AA and you can take out creep tumours for the speed thing, although, soon enough, you'll be contending with speed roaches XD


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


I rarely see Zerg players burrow. Is that because burrow works for certain micro strats?


Because it's not hard to counter. Terran has scan, for which there is no counter at all, and protoss has a permanently cloaked observer that can only be seen by a fat ugly expensive eyeball that gets instantly sniped every time it goes anywhere near a stalker.


----------



## DoomDash

I wonder if Protoss opens robobay, is fast starport banshee into marine marauder tank raven still viable?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12166967*
> I wonder if Protoss opens robobay, is fast starport banshee into marine marauder tank raven still viable?


Yes it is. It's the strongest terran 1 base play imo. Also it's either marine tank raven or marine marauder raven sometimes with hellions in the mix, plus banshees ofc, either cloaked or not. There's also 2 base version which hits a bit later and is even stronger. I personally hate it more than anything terran does.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Says the guy who gg'd vs missile turrets.

Hahaha


----------



## slytown

Day9daily in 5min...


----------



## slytown

Haha I totally got kicked by an admin for voting 4 on Day9's looks during the daily.

Edit: Do yourself a favor and watch the Kiwikaki v. Xlord from Daily #429. It's a sick mass expansion match that ends with a sick Kiwikiaki clutch micro.


----------



## thiru

I don't usually upload games because I don't ladder much, but this was a pretty awesome game in my book. 44 minute macro game on Metalopolis PvT.
Went colossus > phoenix > HT while opponent went MMM > viking > tanks. Lost 4 nexi.

http://replayfu.com/download/xn1rJk


----------



## Norman Bum

Just started my very own Starcraft 2 blog, and it's looking good already! Was hoping to get some critique from you guys if possible. It is still in Beta phase, so it is going to have much better content once I consider it "completed".

I'll be updating it with some upcoming tournaments tomorrow, as well as continuing my evaluation of the new GSL Maps.

Please leave comments and engage in the discussion! Thanks









(Link is in my Sig)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12173520*
> Just started my very own Starcraft 2 blog, and it's looking good already! Was hoping to get some critique from you guys if possible. It is still in Beta phase, so it is going to have much better content once I consider it "completed".
> 
> I'll be updating it with some upcoming tournaments tomorrow, as well as continuing my evaluation of the new GSL Maps.
> 
> Please leave comments and engage in the discussion! Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Link is in my Sig)


Nice








Do you want me to put a link in the OP?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl14A3gnf08[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Lucas Lamer

Reapers are making a bit of a comeback. Seeing diamonds use them with increasing frequency. I always thought it was kinda goofy when everybody abandoned reapers like they were a worthless unit. They have uses. They're far from worthless.


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ lol Idra rage is the best. I like to watch him lose and ***** about it. Makes me happy.

I would say out of the 3 tho, Zerg is by far the hardest to play, there is alot to do but I do like them.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12179149*
> Reapers are making a bit of a comeback. Seeing diamonds use them with increasing frequency. I always thought it was kinda goofy when everybody abandoned reapers like they were a worthless unit. They have uses. They're far from worthless.


They're still somewhat useless IMO. They're mainly used for scouting by high level players because getting reapers means using gas that could of otherwise been used in your main army composition or in your tech/upgrades. Hellions on the other hand are really good because they make a great mineral sink and don't cost any gas.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;12179197*
> ^^ lol Idra rage is the best. I like to watch him lose and ***** about it. Makes me happy.
> 
> I would say out of the 3 tho, Zerg is by far the hardest to play, there is alot to do but I do like them.


Zerg was the easiest for me to play, but that probably has to do because in BW I was a macro player. Terran was always my worst in BW, so I picked them up in SCII because they would be the most challenging for me. It's been quite challenging because I think I try to play Terran by just massing units, and not enough harass....


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## yks

haha, i like the title.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*





Not bad, I thought you took to long to expand but the toss was probing like crazy he was near 60. He should get more units the probes, he built to many. His mirco wasn't there, good game tho. Terran ball btw!


----------



## yks

Kk, just finished watching it on x4.

Telling you man! That option has much more versatility, especially late game versus the tradiational ****ty bio-ball.

Your timing could've been better though, you attacked pretty late cause he already had a colossi, but it was decent enough for your virtual lack of no scouting except for that 1 marine.

He also didn't react as well as I thought he could have. But he's from GMMA and they have a lot of high-rated players, so who am I.

We'll talk more about this on AIM, but I am excited to see you doing more than bio!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I'm new to it so I'm not really sure about timings and such. It is way more fun than bio though. I got beat the game before but it was cross positions on shakuras and I forgot siege :/.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*





You shouldn't expand plus not enough banshees.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*   You shouldn't expand plus not enough banshees.  
But I want a strong exit plan....

Anyway:

  
 You Tube  



 
 Wish I had something like this close to me







!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Husky just blew my mind. You can set auto build to interceptors.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Husky just blew my mind. You can set auto build to interceptors.


Oh, nice.


----------



## CramComplex

WOW...
WOW...4-0...4 fracking 0...just wow...


----------



## thiru

ROFLMAO roflstomped................... such a disappointing finals. seriously? this was done in an hour. Jesus.


----------



## DoomDash

poor MKP

TERRAN WINS OMG!


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


ROFLMAO roflstomped................... such a disappointing finals. seriously? this was done in an hour. Jesus.


I know eh?


----------



## thiru

Well Terran is still the 'second' race


----------



## CramComplex

LOL...so true...


----------



## vdek

*** did I just see...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


*** did I just see...


How dare you imply swears on this forum.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What the fudge did i miss again.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

This was TvT?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What the fudge did i miss again.


Nothing of value.

edit: registered in today's TL Open for the lols.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


But I want a strong exit plan....


Jk with expanding, but you should totally incorporate some early banshees, especially at close air positions.


----------



## thiru

LOL first game in TL Open: vVvRigid xD

got roflstomped by mutaling into roach hydra (how does that even work? lol)

oh well it was fun


----------



## Gigalisk

LOL @ Blizz insider 36 - Blizzard is praising their own beta mods for SC2.

This is not too soon after certain non-blizz modders got their hand slapped for making WoSC.

"No you can't make your cool-ass apps, because we're about to make em!" Too bad blizz's mods will be hit or miss.


----------



## yks

i loved the finals last night actually.


----------



## yks

Graph someone made @ the recent Top200 Blizzard made on Jan. 24th

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2058996#blog


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Although that doesn't reflect the GSL in race distribution in ascension of levels.


----------



## slytown

Poor zerg. Couldn't make the top 10 in numbers at GSL.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12189647*
> Poor zerg.


Don't you cry for them.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Zerg tier 3 needs some major changes. Protoss just laughs at it, from bronze league on up to pro level. Terran doesn't laugh at it, but they certainly don't fear it like they should.


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm a half zerg player as of today and my ZvP is quite solid after just one day of playing as I can read protoss as on open book.








My ZvT and ZvZ is kinda random though and I still need to work on race specific mechanics like injecting larvae and spreading creep, but it's looking good so far.

Zerg <3


----------



## yks

Traitor


----------



## poroboszcz

Awesome thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=187603


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'm a half zerg player as of today and my ZvP is quite solid after just one day of playing as I can read protoss as on open book.







My ZvT and ZvZ is kinda random though and I still need to work on race specific mechanics like injecting larvae and spreading creep, but it's looking good so far.

Zerg <3










What's with the change?


----------



## yks

cause Zerg is OP bigfan, how many times we gotta tell you? =p


----------



## DoomDash

We'll all be Z players eventually.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah that's how I honestly feel.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Traitor



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


What's with the change?


Well, I'm not switching, just off-racing. One of the reasons I decided to do so is because there's so many good resources for zerg players like MrBitter's 12 weeks with the pros, Idra pro tips and decent amount of streams. I also wanted to get the other race perspective on PvZ matchup and it worked out quite well.

Overall I think playing two races will make me a better player and is a lot of fun. Whether I win or lose I always learn something useful.


----------



## yks

Ooo, off-racing. i thought it was a switch.

okay you are forgiven.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


cause Zerg is OP bigfan, how many times we gotta tell you? =p



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We'll all be Z players eventually.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


yeah that's how I honestly feel.


QQ moar







Z is staying the way it is atm and will likely get some buff when T/P gets their own buffs, etc.... Zerg ain't OP, it's the player who is OP. Best sol'n = nerf them XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Well, I'm not switching, just off-racing. One of the reasons I decided to do so is because there's so many good resources for zerg players like MrBitter's 12 weeks with the pros, Idra pro tips and decent amount of streams. I also wanted to get the other race perspective on PvZ matchup and it worked out quite well.

Overall I think playing two races will make me a better player and is a lot of fun. *Whether I win or lose I always learn something useful.*










Can't argue with that. It's nice to know that someone else plays the game for fun and not to grind, although, watching 15 replays and doing specific analysis isn't my idea of fun







True indeed @ bolded.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah you gotta kidding me. It doesn't take a genius to see zerg is the best macro race atm.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I may just start all-inning Z every game. Trying to macro = death.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Yeah you gotta kidding me. It doesn't take a genius to see zerg is the best macro race atm.


lol, where did I ever say that Z wasn't the best macro race?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think I may just start all-inning Z every game. Trying to macro = death.


Your choice, don't really care tbh, since, I don't plan on doing that other than a match or two because I'm curious to see the result







You won't learn anything all-ining other than becoming the next BitByBitPrime


----------



## DoomDash

I just made two Zergs very angry. I got a message after one game "I hope you die of cancer".


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just made two Zergs very angry. I got a message after one game "I hope you die of cancer".










People take games way too seriously, it's the main problem with today's society :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*









People take games way too seriously, it's the main problem with today's society :/


Not really. Which pro said this? "If you don't get pissed you don't care enough".

That's loaded with truth. If you play to be good which is what most of us do, then of course you are going to rage once and awhile. I don't blame him at all, in fact I egged him on.

But I don't think you have a mindset like this.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not really. Which pro said this? "If you don't get pissed you don't care enough".

That's loaded with truth. If you play to be good which is what most of us do, then of course you are going to rage once and awhile. I don't blame him at all, in fact I egged him on.

But I don't think you have a mindset like this.


Why'd you egg him on? Did he cheese you and fail?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Why'd you egg him on? Did he cheese you and fail?


It started off like this -

ME:
GAH I HATE U BATTLE.NET for making me favored vs my worst MU

HIM: 
OMG LEARN TO PLAY TERRAN OP

ME: 
Right.

HIM:
I could write 2 pages on why marines are OP.

ME: 
*Thinks to self, 3 rax marine scv all in for that*

and as I did it I told him the only reason I did was because he was saying Terran was OP.

HIM:

F*** you!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not really. Which pro said this? "If you don't get pissed you don't care enough".

That's loaded with truth. If you play to be good which is what most of us do, then of course you are going to rage once and awhile. I don't blame him at all, in fact I egged him on.

But I don't think you have a mindset like this.


I believe that was Idra you are referring to. Well, raging is fine, but, even then, wishing for someone to get cancer because they won a game, even by cheesing or allin or whatever strat they used, you can't tell me that fine?

Well, I've been pissed before at getting DISC or losing some games I knew I had/could've won, but, I would never wish anything like that and I've never BM'd anyone. I say hello, gl hf and GG every game regardless if I was cheesed, all-in'd or whatever









^^







3 rax all in though? Only recall hearing 2 rax, guessing you went for the 16 OC then relied on mules like the usual all-ins are?


----------



## DoomDash

Yep, well to do a real all in you need 3 rax since mules can support that







. Love them mules.

PS I'm not sure I should feel guilty about it. In a way it's obviously an all in, but at the same time its a smart move to punish a FE is it not? It's def a situational move, and I did it on close positions.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep, well to do a real all in you need 3 rax since mules can support that







. Love them mules.


oh, hmm, I was thinking about rax+reactor, but, no need to get an extractor for a measly 50-100 reactor(s), but, I agree with your point









Page 1000 ^^


----------



## DoomDash

no gas for 3 rax all in or 2 rax fe.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Platinum yay!







. I don't understand it though, I lost 6 games in a row then won 1 game and got promoted







lol.

In regards to terran I hate it when they push at me with thors and scv's, rather annoying







. Any good way to prepare for it besides have more stuff? lol *edit to mention I'm Zerg*

Matt (Oser in EU servers).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox;12196208*
> Platinum yay!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't understand it though, I lost 6 games in a row then won 1 game and got promoted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> In regards to terran I hate it when they push at me with thors and scv's, rather annoying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Any good way to prepare for it besides have more stuff? lol *edit to mention I'm Zerg*
> 
> Matt (Oser in EU servers).


Well, Blizzard has changed target priority so that your units attack epairing SCVs assuming this is what their purpose was. Not much you can do other than try to surround thors with slings then hit them with everything else. You could always try some bizzare strat like NPing half of his thors then forcing them to attack the other ones while your own units are attacking as well, but, I don't think I've seen it done before(plan to try it)


----------



## vdek

Hey folks, almost 10k posts!


----------



## EmMure

wooot grubby moves to sc2!


----------



## yks

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14452-huk-ret-haypro-moon-glade-to-gomtv-gsl-code-a

Artosis, Spades and Torch fail to qualify.

HuK, Ret, Haypro, moonglade do qualify for Code A~!

Torch was 1match away.


----------



## poroboszcz

I killed terran with mass banelings. I actually had big grin on my face looking at stuff blowing up. My first ZvT as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I killed terran with mass banelings. I actually had big grin on my face looking at stuff blowing up. My first ZvT as well.










I h8 u.


----------



## Atikin

Post 10000

EDIT: Starcraft is fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Hey guys, finally played the finals to my SCC ( starcraftcentral ) tournament today.
http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=284.0

My opponent was a 2500 Master Protoss, and I went 3-0!


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hey guys, finally played the finals to my SCC ( starcraftcentral ) tournament today.
http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=284.0

My opponent was a 2500 Master Protoss, and I went 3-0!








Congrats dude. I can't wait to have skill in this game. :|


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hey guys, finally played the finals to my SCC ( starcraftcentral ) tournament today.
http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=284.0

My opponent was a 2500 Master Protoss, and I went 3-0!








How'd the zergs do? I don't see any race info in the brackets.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


How'd the zergs do? I don't see any race info in the brackets.


I played a 2600 Diamond Zerg for my 2nd match, and he got 4th. I don't think many Zergs entered, maybe next tournament, signs up starting already. I get a bye this time







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12201047*
> I killed terran with mass banelings. I actually had big grin on my face looking at stuff blowing up. My first ZvT as well.


lol @ mass banes, now that is OP









@DoomDash Congrats on the win, keep at it, maybe someday you'll make it to the GSL


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I had a 2300 master league protoss do a build on me that put 2 void rays, 2 stalkers, 3 zealots, and one probe outside my natural at just over the 7:30 mark. That's just ridiculous. The guy didn't even bother scouting ahead. Why would he? That build is good against any zerg early game unless the zerg player is a mind reader who knew at the 0:00 mark what was coming. Protoss has so many openings against zerg now. I have no clue how zerg is supposed to account for all of these.

The guy had an average APM over 180. I don't even know how he found so many things to do in such a short time.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12202964*
> Hey guys, finally played the finals to my SCC ( starcraftcentral ) tournament today.
> http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=284.0
> 
> My opponent was a 2500 Master Protoss, and I went 3-0!


Congrats, wp. Wonder why you don't get any upgrades though.

I liked protoss 4gate with hallucination build.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12207819*
> I had a 2300 master league protoss do a build on me that put 2 void rays, 2 stalkers, 3 zealots, and one probe outside my natural at just over the 7:30 mark. That's just ridiculous. The guy didn't even bother scouting ahead. Why would he? That build is good against any zerg early game unless the zerg player is a mind reader who knew at the 0:00 mark what was coming. Protoss has so many openings against zerg now. I have no clue how zerg is supposed to account for all of these.
> 
> The guy had an average APM over 180. I don't even know how he found so many things to do in such a short time.


Have a replay maybe?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12208271*
> 
> Have a replay maybe?


I have it on my hard drive. Not sure how to post it online. The toss player's profile is here. He's called ManToSs. He takes the prize for the most irritatingly unstoppable toss PvZ opening I've seen. Only way I'd have a chance is if he told me before the game what he was going to do. I love how he brought the probe along to lay down a pylon and warp in reinforcements. As if that were needed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12208415*
> I have it on my hard drive. Not sure how to post it online. The toss player's profile is here. He's called ManToSs. He takes the prize for the most irritatingly unstoppable toss PvZ opening I've seen. Only way I'd have a chance is if he told me before the game what he was going to do. I love how he brought the probe along to lay down a pylon and warp in reinforcements. As if that were needed.


I am familiar with the build, just wonder about his execution. The way I do it I get 4 zealots, 4 stalkers, 3 sentries and 2 VRs about 8:30 after faking an expansion. Also a standard 4 gate hits around 6:30 with 5 zealots and 6 stalkers so his push at 7:30 should definitely be stoppable.

I'd assume 2 queens at your natural, some speed lings and maybe a spine crawler would be able to stop it. If you see double gas and then no expansion from toss by 6:30-6:40 mark you should start preparing for 1 base aggression and preferably sac an overlord to see exactly what's coming.

Edit: You can upload a replay here or just attach it to the post as a .zip file.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12208572*
> I'd assume 2 queens at your natural, some speed lings and maybe a spine crawler would be able to stop it. If you see double gas and then no expansion from toss by 6:30-6:40 mark you should start preparing for 1 base aggression and preferably sac an overlord to see exactly what's coming.


Yeah something like this.

Basically sac an overlord around the 5:30 mark to scout his stargate, ideally you want to get about 4 roaches and 3-4 queens with a spine for the 7:30 push, should be able to stop it quite easily as long as you keep pumping units. Just make sure the roaches stay in front of the queens and the queens shoot down the void rays.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12208635*
> Yeah something like this.
> 
> Basically sac an overlord around the 5:30 mark to scout his stargate, ideally you want to get about 4 roaches and 3-4 queens with a spine for the 7:30 push, should be able to stop it quite easily as long as you keep pumping units. Just make sure the roaches stay in front of the queens and the queens shoot down the void rays.


I alway hear this "sac an overlord to spot the stargate" stuff. Half the time I do it it doesn't work. It really isn't hard to hide a piece of tech from a sloverlord. Damn thing gets shot down before it sees what's in the back corner of the main. And the stargate doesn't even have to be in the main. It can be anywhere on the map.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12208695*
> I alway hear this "sac an overlord to spot the stargate" stuff. Half the time I do it it doesn't work. It really isn't hard to hide a piece of tech from a sloverlord. Damn thing gets shot down before it sees what's in the back corner of the main. And the stargate doesn't even have to be in the main. It can be anywhere on the map.


With the early drone scout before the stalker pops out, see if they take the 2and gas and how early. If they do take the 2nd gas, try to check the unit composition of the protoss w/ a ling later on. if they are sentry heavy, they are almost always going for an expansion, but if you see zealots & stalkers, you should be alarmed, and I would probably sack the ovie at this point.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12208695*
> I alway hear this "sac an overlord to spot the stargate" stuff. Half the time I do it it doesn't work. It really isn't hard to hide a piece of tech from a sloverlord. Damn thing gets shot down before it sees what's in the back corner of the main. And the stargate doesn't even have to be in the main. It can be anywhere on the map.


It's purely a scouting issue. If you post a replay we'd be able to help more.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12197116*
> Well, Blizzard has changed target priority so that your units attack epairing SCVs assuming this is what their purpose was. Not much you can do other than try to surround thors with slings then hit them with everything else. You could always try some bizzare strat like NPing half of his thors then forcing them to attack the other ones while your own units are attacking as well, but, I don't think I've seen it done before(plan to try it)


Thanks for the tips, yeah i think neural parasites could work. One of the problems was the fact that it was close positions and i didnt have much warning. He also didnt expand so could have been 1 base all in type of thing.


----------



## yks

is it weird i havent tried a stargate build yet with the latest patch?


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqqfeNvH1X8[/ame]

1hr 30min video of GSL5 prelims


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox*


Thanks for the tips, yeah i think neural parasites could work. One of the problems was the fact that it was close positions and i didnt have much warning. He also didnt expand so could have been 1 base all in type of thing.


I had an opponent go for mass thors on close positions on LT and I didn't scout until a bit on the later side. I saw the thors when I did some muta harass and started making units stat. He also brought some SCVs as well. Those 7 thors did some crazy damage and took out a decent portion of my army before they were all gone at which point he GG and left XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


is it weird i havent tried a stargate build yet with the latest patch?


Yes, you are weird!









Bad news for us Canadians: http://www.overclock.net/technology-...l#post12210492









As if things couldn't get worse :/


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan I'd fight that if you can.


----------



## DoomDash

Noooo horrible day of laddering. I still love you ladder!


----------



## Mwarren

Well it looks like I'll be in Master League really soon. Have been beating Master League rated players. Ever since I started incorporating hellions into my TvZ and drop play into my TvT and TvP my win rates have improved exponentially.


----------



## Allenssmart

im still mad i can't stop banelings. is mmm effective tvz or must one always go mech?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


im still mad i can't stop banelings. is mmm effective tvz or must one always go mech?


Both.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


im still mad i can't stop banelings. is mmm effective tvz or must one always go mech?


You can stop banelings. I'd have to suggest a combo of bio and mech TvZ. Hellions shut down banelings early game up, siege tanks and especially thors counter the hell out of banelings. I wouldn't get too many marines if they are going heavy banelings.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Shozzking

I just started playing as zerg and I'm trying to figure out some good BO's. I came across this one and I'm not sure if it'll work well or not.


----------



## Katana

Wow, that was fun to watch. I seriously need to get into muta harassment as Z.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shozzking*


I just started playing as zerg and I'm trying to figure out some good BO's. I came across this one and I'm not sure if it'll work well or not.


Yes if you can defend against early pressure. Depends on what league you're in.
That guide isn't that great though tbh, it says to defend 4gate by going hydras which is impossible to get if it's a proper 4gate.


----------



## Mwarren

Builds and zerg don't go hand in hand unless you're trying to cheese. Just try to counter/keep up with whatever you're opponent is doing.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Builds and zerg don't go hand in hand unless you're trying to cheese. Just try to counter/keep up with whatever you're opponent is doing.


15 hatch 15 pool isn't a build... there's not much to counter at that stage.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


15 hatch 15 pool isn't a build... there's not much to counter at that stage.


Wouldn't that be considered an opening?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12215527*
> Wouldn't that be considered an opening?


What I meant is that there's nothing to counter at that stage of the game. Whether you hatch first or pool first depends on map and position and league.
edit: and preference.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12212312*
> BigFan I'd fight that if you can.


Well, seeing what can be done atm. So ridiculous, that 200gb cap from TekSavvy will be dropping to 25gb with a possible increase :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12215430*
> Builds and zerg don't go hand in hand unless you're trying to cheese. Just try to counter/keep up with whatever you're opponent is doing.


I agree, just have a specific opening depending on opponent's race and react from there








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12215527*
> Wouldn't that be considered an opening?


Yes


----------



## yks

horrible day of laddering.

last game i was litterally 1 nexus kill away from winning and my internet gets D/C

the GSL wild card games tonight better be good.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;12215142*
> I just started playing as zerg and I'm trying to figure out some good BO's. I came across this one and I'm not sure if it'll work well or not.


That 15 Hatch 15 Pool stuff is goofy. I tried it quite a few times in custom games against good players before giving it up. Diamond and master will punish you for doing it EVERY time. I'm talking literally 100% of the time they will come after you hard and fast. Protoss in particular has a wide variety of early attack options and they'll just crush you if go 15-15.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yes if you can defend against early pressure. Depends on what league you're in.
That guide isn't that great though tbh, it says to defend 4gate by going hydras which is impossible to get if it's a proper 4gate.


Hydra against 4-gate? That's peculiar advice. Was hydra a tier 1.5 unit in the beta?


----------



## DoomDash

The current state of ZvT / TvZ on steps is so damn funny:



I used to lose to that but I'm used to it now.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=189181


----------



## thiru

I saw that live. **** was hilarious.


----------



## DoomDash

Artosis has some interviews up of Torch/moonglade ect on his youtube ArtosisTV.


----------



## Nevaziah

Hey Dash, I watched your SCC tournament finals vs Moon'something' (TVP) and adopted your build for 2 rax fax expand with some pressure. I won both games easily. I even did it on steppes of war vs a 4 gate and since i had units roaming the map, my opponentn couldnt proxy the pylon









Thanks for the Replays!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I alway hear this "sac an overlord to spot the stargate" stuff. Half the time I do it it doesn't work. It really isn't hard to hide a piece of tech from a sloverlord. Damn thing gets shot down before it sees what's in the back corner of the main. And the stargate doesn't even have to be in the main. It can be anywhere on the map.


Was wondering Lucas, did you ever play SC? 
Was your username, this by any chance? D(V)Lucashome7?

Just found this username from my past history with sc, wonder if that user plays SCII now


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12222308*
> Hey Dash, I watched your SCC tournament finals vs Moon'something' (TVP) and adopted your build for 2 rax fax expand with some pressure. I won both games easily. I even did it on steppes of war vs a 4 gate and since i had units roaming the map, my opponentn couldnt proxy the pylon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the Replays!


No problem. Yah its a very strong bio build IMO. Lately I've been trying mech though.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12226178*
> No problem. Yah its a very strong bio build IMO. Lately I've been trying mech though.


That, I have realized, will be my only solution to zerg and baneling muta.
Either opening Hellionz into thor+marines+hellions and SOME banshees or opening cloacked banshees into hellions, into Thor+marines+hellions.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow me and Jediwin had the most epic TvT. I was seriously kicking his butt but a mistake of mine ( forgetting to bring tanks with ) and good playing by him gave him one of the best come backs ever. I can't believe I lost hah. Frickin Jedi, he always does this **** to me.. epic come backs, some how winning base races, pushing literally 1 second before I would be safe.... GAH I HATE U JEDI







. Maybe if I had 180 APM / was Korean I could beat you more







.


----------



## BigFan

Anyone up for some SotIS(DoTA)?


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/itmeJP

SOTG in 15mins~!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12229422*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/itmeJP
> 
> SOTG in 15mins~!!


What is that?

Edit: nm, commentary by inControl.


----------



## yks

jp, nony, incontrol, and day9

talk about sc2 and whats been going on

and every week they bring a guest, this week is Ret.


----------



## Allenssmart

just wondering guys, HOLY CRAP REPLAY FILES ARE SMALL. how do they fit so much stuff into like 40 KB? i just don't get it. its amazing. would somebody like to enlighten me on this? thanks


----------



## DoomDash

10101010110101.


----------



## thiru

It doesn't save the game itself, it just saves all the actions (clicks and keys) of the players, and then recreates the game when you launch it.

Which is why, when SC1 first had replays, it wouldn't work. Half the time the replay would show a completely different game that made no sense


----------



## DoomDash

Listened to state of the game, I like their comments on Terran.

New JP and friends w/ LZGamer:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=187954


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/itmeJP

SOTG in 15mins~!!


Yeah, the podcast is available on itunes too, I like to listen to it while driving to work, especially since they're very long.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


It doesn't save the game itself, it just saves all the actions (clicks and keys) of the players, and then recreates the game when you launch it.

Which is why, when SC1 first had replays, it wouldn't work. Half the time the replay would *show a completely different game* that made no sense










XD I remember watching a youtube video talking about the different patches and mentioning this. It would be interesting to see a different replay


----------



## DoomDash

With no heat my 580 GTX is sitting at 25c.


----------



## TheReciever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12237820*
> With no heat my 580 GTX is sitting at 25c.


Just watch your replay with Jedi, epic loss man.

I love matches like that, me and my bro have those often when we play. but lately weve been playing custom games since we like 3v3 and always get stuck with that guy/girl that doesnt like communicating :S


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheReciever*


Just watch your replay with Jedi, epic loss man.


I know


----------



## yks

You Tube


----------



## vdek

Hey guys, so I moved my stream to justin.tv instead of ustream, I like it more already!

www.justin.tv/vdek

Is my new channel, if you could update the OP Thiru.

Thanks.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYtfBDJXq0Q


Definitely agree that colossus is too strong in PvZ, especially on small maps. It's just fundamentally silly that zerg can only fight colossus with a single expensive air unit that's useless against anything else. It would be really helpful to have ultralisk not suck so bad against protoss. That would go a long way to making the zerg ground army less pathetic in the late game in PvZ.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Hey guys, so I moved my stream to justin.tv instead of ustream, I like it more already!

www.justin.tv/vdek

Is my new channel, if you could update the OP Thiru.

Thanks.


why the move brah? i noticed a lot of people switching.

response went from livestream to jtv
destiny went from ustream to jtv
a lot of the ssf4 guys are still on jtv


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


why the move brah? i noticed a lot of people switching.

response went from livestream to jtv
destiny went from ustream to jtv
a lot of the ssf4 guys are still on jtv


JTV has a better community and website I think! Plus they sponsored the SCReddit tournament which I thought was awesome as hell. They are pretty active on reddit, and they seem to be sponsoring esports much better than ustream. I like the site more too, less buggy and higher quality stream I think.


----------



## DoomDash

Did someone add Destiny to the Overclock.net division for ****s and giggles, or do you actually post here Destiny?


----------



## Rpg2

How does one recover going from say 17 probes to 6 in a 3v3 at around the ~8 minute mark, I think?

Colony 426 is the worst map ever..... The middle island bases are so easy to abuse with siege tanks it's almost unbelievable. I eventually got my probe count back up, but I was almost out of the picture. I was on a full single base while everyone else was on two base already (just finished re-probing up).

It was fun though. Finally using hotkeys correctly for my Nexus, gates, robo, and properly chrono boosting most of the time. APM went from ~55-60 to 70! I'm so proud.

inb4lolgold


----------



## thiru

lol gold
j/k

Added Vdek's stream and removed Destiny from the ocn division. Bet it was Vdek









Unless Destiny posts here... do you?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rpg2*


How does one recover going from say 17 probes to 6 in a 3v3 at around the ~8 minute mark, I think?

Colony 426 is the worst map ever..... The middle island bases are so easy to abuse with siege tanks it's almost unbelievable. I eventually got my probe count back up, but I was almost out of the picture. I was on a full single base while everyone else was on two base already (just finished re-probing up).

It was fun though. Finally using hotkeys correctly for my Nexus, gates, robo, and properly chrono boosting most of the time. APM went from ~55-60 to 70! I'm so proud.

inb4lolgold


lolgold!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

TvZ is turning into an epidemic of fast hellion lately. Almost every high-level terran I've played recently is doing it.


----------



## thiru

2rax bunker rush into hellion harass into banshees
GG


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


2rax bunker rush into hellion harass into banshees
GG


ffuuu that's exactly what happened to me yesterday in a game :/

You can feel my pain here =[

http://justin.tv/vdek/b/278838741

Granted, I was really tired when I played that game since it was nearly 3:30am and I was laddering for 4 hours straight. His final push wasn't actually that strong and SHOULD have been easily stoppable had I held off his banshees a bit better.


----------



## Mwarren

The zerg should have mutas by the time he gets banshees out though. I've been opening 2 rax into double fac blue flame hellions, into standard mech/bio play. Banshees after hellions seems like a waste.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


The zerg should have mutas by the time he gets banshees out though. I've been opening 2 rax into double fac blue flame hellions, into standard mech/bio play. Banshees after hellions seems like a waste.


If you are pressuring correctly, the zerg won't have any breathing space to even go lair tech. This is especially true in close positions or close maps. It's really difficult for zerg to determine what the terran is doing after 2 rax pressure, you ask yourself is he going 4 rax, going helions, expanding? even after helions, you have to be wary of their timing attacks, banshees, expo'


----------



## vdek

First details announced about the MLG Pro Circuit for SC2. First place is $50k :O Rivaling the GSL!!!

http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/announcing-the-first-details-of-the-2011-mlg-pro-circuit


----------



## rhed5

vdek, can you summarize what's happening? or maybe a print screen? blocked


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12246302*
> vdek, can you summarize what's happening? or maybe a print screen? blocked


I made a thread about it here:
http://www.overclock.net/video-game-news/931741-mlg-2011-mlg-pro-circuit-details.html


----------



## rhed5

thanks for that. 50k for the nationals is pretty impressive


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12245920*
> If you are pressuring correctly, the zerg won't have any breathing space to even go lair tech. This is especially true in close positions or close maps. It's really difficult for zerg to determine what the terran is doing after 2 rax pressure, you ask yourself is he going 4 rax, going helions, expanding? even after helions, you have to be wary of their timing attacks, banshees, expo'


The problem is that if the terran is going fast banshees after fac than he wont have much to harass with if the zerg is scouting correctly. 1-2 spines plus lings/roaches or lings/banes can do a lot of damage. It really comes down to who has the best micro/positioning, and can keep their units a live though.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12247140*
> The problem is that if the terran is going fast banshees after fac than he wont have much to harass with if the zerg is scouting correctly. 1-2 spines plus lings/roaches or lings/banes can do a lot of damage. It really comes down to who has the best micro/positioning, and can keep their units a live though.


I see your point but remember with the early harass, you aren't going for the killer blow, but just to keep zerg on its toes. When he put down 1-2 spines and went roach/banes just for from your helions, what does that tell you? He had to have invested a serious ton of resources and larvae in to that, and won't be able to deal with banshees. Even with 2-3 helions, zerg is in a tough spot as with the early 2 rax push, you can delay their gas/zergling speed upgrade.


----------



## Rpg2

I'm definitely feeling the support of OCN!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12247241*
> I see your point but remember with the early harass, you aren't going for the killer blow, but just to keep zerg on its toes. When he put down 1-2 spines and went roach/banes just for from your helions, what does that tell you? He had to have invested a serious ton of resources and larvae in to that, and won't be able to deal with banshees. Even with 2-3 helions, zerg is in a tough spot as with the early 2 rax push, you can delay their gas/zergling speed upgrade.


Pretty true. Delaying lair tech is really problematic but teching too fast doesn't work either, it's a delicate balance between the two. I've lost games to just banshees because I didn't tech fast enough to get a hydralish den or spire and my 1-2 queens weren't enough. I think the best Z defense against banshees if you are teching up slowly is to make 2 spores near hatcheries and another 2 or so near other structures so that the banshees can't just snipe a structure and escape like I've seen done before








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rpg2;12247433*
> I'm definitely feeling the support of OCN!


lol, most on here, specifically in this thread play 1vs1 with very little 2vs2+ experience. In 1vs1, if you lose most of your workers, unless you have money saved up to keep making units as you make workers, it's pretty much GG because all your opponent has to do is just keep harassing you and you'll cave in. If you are able to pay him back the favour by taking out a decent amount of his own workers, then the game is in balance again(assuming similar supplies, etc....). For team games, you can probably worker up







as your teammates defend if they are decent


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12247536*
> Pretty true. Delaying lair tech is really problematic but teching too fast doesn't work either, it's a delicate balance between the two. I've lost games to just banshees because I didn't tech fast enough to get a hydralish den or spire and my 1-2 queens weren't enough. I think the best Z defense against banshees if you are teching up slowly is to make 2 spores near hatcheries and another 2 or so near other structures so that the banshees can't just snipe a structure and escape like I've seen done before


It doesn't really help because a good player will snipe all your workers. Watch the game I posted above!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

A huge problem with fast hellions is that they're cheap enough to sacrifice them to kill workers, which means they attack with little or no fear. Terrans get an early hellion ball and it's virtually guaranteed that they'll get at least their money's worth out of it, and typically much more than that, especially with medivac drops having to be accounted for. Either zerg loses mass drones or he is forced to quickly make a heavy investment in roaches and spinecrawlers, which is not what zerg wants to do. Immediately after the medivac/hellions you get tanks, marauders, and marines showing up outside the zerg natural, maybe with a banshee or two. All those crawlers and roaches are worthless against sieged-up tanks with MM support. It's irritating that the tanks are produced out of the same structure as the hellions, which means the tech switch is seamless and quick. The banshees are also produced out of the same structure as the medivacs. Trainsitioning from medivac/hellion to banshee/tank is super easy because the tech lab is so fast and cheap. I'd like the tech lab to be a bit more expensive and have a longer build time.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12247241*
> I see your point but remember with the early harass, you aren't going for the killer blow, but just to keep zerg on its toes. When he put down 1-2 spines and went roach/banes just for from your helions, what does that tell you? He had to have invested a serious ton of resources and larvae in to that, and won't be able to deal with banshees. Even with 2-3 helions, zerg is in a tough spot as with the early 2 rax push, you can delay their gas/zergling speed upgrade.


Speedlings/Roaches with banes is standard ZvT though. He's not investing a serious ton of resources if he plays standard since in the long term those units will always be useful. Two spines only costs 200 minerals and 2 drones and will hold off any early marine/hellion pressure. By the time that you have enough to get past the 2 spines he should have Lair tech.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12249361*
> Speedlings/Roaches with banes is standard ZvT though. He's not investing a serious ton of resources if he plays standard since in the long term those units will always be useful. Two spines only costs 200 minerals and 2 drones and will hold off any early marine/hellion pressure. By the time that you have enough to get past the 2 spines he should have Lair tech.


The strat I'm seeing lately is to get a big enough hellion ball(usually about 5) to overwhelm 2 crawlers. The hellions end up getting killed off but not before they shred the zerg workforce. It's a sacrifice that is well worth the money for T. The good T players are continually sending hellion balls(sometimes with medivac drops) until zerg spends big enough on roaches/crawlers to counter, then the tech switch to tanks/banshees happens. It's an easy switch because the same structures are used. The roaches and crawlers are useless against properly supported tanks and banshees. I'm also seeing early hellion/marauder combos. The marauders are great against roaches, and the hellions fry lings and drones.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12245920*
> If you are pressuring correctly, the zerg won't have any breathing space to even go lair tech. This is especially true in close positions or close maps. It's really difficult for zerg to determine what the terran is doing after 2 rax pressure, you ask yourself is he going 4 rax, going helions, expanding? even after helions, you have to be wary of their timing attacks, banshees, expo'


There are points where its too risky to apply pressure to Zerg.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12244902*
> ffuuu that's exactly what happened to me yesterday in a game :/
> 
> You can feel my pain here =[
> 
> http://justin.tv/vdek/b/278838741
> 
> Granted, I was really tired when I played that game since it was nearly 3:30am and I was laddering for 4 hours straight. His final push wasn't actually that strong and SHOULD have been easily stoppable had I held off his banshees a bit better.


You played that game so poorly as I said last night. That had nothing to do with the strat, and everything about you handling it poorly, especially because you knew it was coming.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12247605*
> It doesn't really help because a good player will snipe all your workers. Watch the game I posted above!


See above, you gave all those workers to him for free. No queen at your main half the game, poor crawler positioning, uprooted crawler at your nat for a good 2-4 minutes.

I've done that exact strategy as Terran many many times and if you prepare with 1-2 spores at each base and 1-2 extra queens its pretty much GG because all that money will have been a waste. It's only strong when Zerg is caught off guard, which you were not.

As you said too, if you didn't let those banshess do that much damage you could have easily ran him over.


----------



## w00t

ok question, to get promoted to a higher rank is there a required % wlr or do you just got to be consistently beating the higher ranked players?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


First details announced about the MLG Pro Circuit for SC2. First place is $50k :O Rivaling the GSL!!!

http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/new...lg-pro-circuit


50k once a year for the national champs.
w/ 5k throughout the year @ 5 events each.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *w00t*


ok question, to get promoted to a higher rank is there a required % wlr or do you just got to be consistently beating the higher ranked players?


just consistently beat higher ranked players and you'll be promoted.


----------



## Mwarren

In my opinion opening marines/hellions into banshees is too risky against zerg. It seems really gimmicky and if your marine/hellion push fails you're pretty much screwed and wasted resources on banshees and a starport. Even if you did a good amount of damage with your marines/hellions chances are he will have still teched to lair/spire if hes on two bases by the time your first banshees pops or shortly after. I've been seeing a lot of top terran players go double rax into double fac blue flame hellions into standard siege tank/thors with M&M's while getting upgrades. It seems a lot less gimmicky and stronger than going into banshees. As long as the terran go poke and prod with his marines/hellions and do some trading with minimal losses than hes in a very good position.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12250396*
> In my opinion opening marines/hellions into banshees is too risky against zerg. It seems really gimmicky and if your marine/hellion push fails you're pretty much screwed and wasted resources on banshees and a starport. Even if you did a good amount of damage with your marines/hellions chances are he will have still teched to lair/spire if hes on two bases by the time your first banshees pops or shortly after. I've been seeing a lot of top terran players go double rax into double fac blue flame hellions into standard siege tank/thors with M&M's while getting upgrades. It seems a lot less gimmicky and stronger than going into banshees. As long as the terran go poke and prod with his marines/hellions and do some trading with minimal losses than hes in a very good position.


Yep. Def a gimmick. I hate that build, it either works because the Zerg doesn't know how to prepare, or it causes you to just lose. I ran that build like 100 times from beta to early release.


----------



## DoomDash

Man Amen to his comments about creep taking wayyy too long to disappear:

  
 You Tube


----------



## w00t

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


just consistently beat higher ranked players and you'll be promoted.


lol with that being said i just got promoted from gold to platinum took me about 141 games -_-

now the long road to diamond x_x


----------



## Allenssmart

is it possible for terran to defeat muta ling bling without siege tanks, thors, or ravens? i think not, unless somebody has someway of doing it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


is it possible for terran to defeat muta ling bling without siege tanks, thors, or ravens? i think not, unless somebody has someway of doing it.


Yeah lots of micro, lots of mult-pronged attacks / drops w/ medivacs.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I've been seeing a lot of top terran players go double rax into double fac blue flame hellions into standard siege tank/thors with M&M's while getting upgrades.


Yeah, that's what I'm seeing too. It's the common strat now, much more so than banshees. Starport is also commonly used, but usually only for medivac drops, not so much for banshees. Get a hellion ball in quickly and kill drones. Even if the hellions have to suicide it's almost always going to be worth the money unless T has awful micro skills. Either that, or just force Z to blow big cash on anti-hellion defenses ahead of the tank/MM attack. It's all good for T. There's not a lot of downside to this strat.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rpg2*


How does one recover going from say 17 probes to 6 in a 3v3 at around the ~8 minute mark, I think?

Colony 426 is the worst map ever..... The middle island bases are so easy to abuse with siege tanks it's almost unbelievable. I eventually got my probe count back up, but I was almost out of the picture. I was on a full single base while everyone else was on two base already (just finished re-probing up).

It was fun though. Finally using hotkeys correctly for my Nexus, gates, robo, and properly chrono boosting most of the time. APM went from ~55-60 to 70! I'm so proud.

inb4lolgold


The problem here is that you have only 17 probes at 8 minutes in the first place.


----------



## DoomDash

1.21 on PTR with new maps for ladder:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2166875#blog


----------



## thiru

Is that a LT remake?

For you Doom, if you haven't seen it:
http://www.elevengaming.com/mwc/

Biggest LAN event in the Midwest.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Is that a LT remake?

For you Doom, if you haven't seen it:
http://www.elevengaming.com/mwc/

Biggest LAN event in the Midwest.


I actually did see that but sadly no $$$.

As for the maps, I like 1-3, but 4 is hella imba for Terran ( main can be hit my siege tanks ), and 5 I just didn't like. 1 is like a fair version of lost temple!! I like it.


----------



## yks

The new maps are trash.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The new maps are trash.


No, just no. 1-3 <3~~~!!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The new maps are trash.


I like the new Lost Temple.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I like the new Lost Temple.


Yeah its good... cliffs weren't needed.


----------



## yks

These better not go live.

The LT-remake is decent (except mid, the middle is horrible) but honestly, they are all trash.

They went bush and destructible rock happy on most of them.


----------



## yks

oh crap, there's new 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 maps too, well thats what i read on TL.
lemme go check.

edit: a single 4v4 map and its horrible
the single 3v3 map looks really fun
2v2 maps: 1-3 looks okay, the shared base is prolly best, 4 is horrible.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


oh crap, there's new 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 maps too, well thats what i read on TL.
lemme go check.


Yep.


----------



## Norman Bum

Started a Starcraft 2 blog, check it out









sc2daily.blogspot.com

Looking for some constructive criticism, especially on the design and content. Going to be adding more interesting stuff like strategy rather than just news about Starcraft 2.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally 2800+.

Wins vs Zerg today with no cheese: 0-1

Wins vs Zerg today with Marine SCV pushes : 3-0.

<3.

*Norman*, you don't post in here much, yet you have a SCII blog? What gives?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12256308*
> Started a Starcraft 2 blog, check it out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sc2daily.blogspot.com
> 
> Looking for some constructive criticism, especially on the design and content. Going to be adding more interesting stuff like strategy rather than just news about Starcraft 2.


Haven't had time to check it yet, but do you want me to add to the OP of this thread?


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12256526*
> Finally 2800+.
> 
> Wins vs Zerg today with no cheese: 0-1
> 
> Wins vs Zerg today with Marine SCV pushes : 3-0.
> 
> <3.
> 
> *Norman*, you don't post in here much, yet you have a SCII blog? What gives?


I used to, when Sc2 first released we would do KOTH and practice games with 10+ OCN'ers all the time. I took a break from Sc2 for a month or so and have yet to reconnect with you guys lol!

My blog is sexy so far though, y/n?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12256543*
> Haven't had time to check it yet, but do you want me to add to the OP of this thread?


Yeah man that would be awesome, really appreciate it









My new in-game is *Aesop.496*

Or, Real-ID: [email protected]


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12256543*
> Haven't had time to check it yet, but do you want me to add to the OP of this thread?


Yeah man that would be awesome, really appreciate it









My new in-game is *Aesop.496*

Or, Real-ID: [email protected]

Accidentally double-posted, delete this one please


----------



## DoomDash

Norman, cool you're back, I don't remember you but maybe I wasn't around then? Don't forget to hang out in overclock.net channel.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12256616*
> Norman, cool you're back, I don't remember you but maybe I wasn't around then? Don't forget to hang out in overclock.net channel.


Oh will do, is that the channel name? Overclock.net?

Or is there an abbreviation


----------



## DoomDash

Yep, just like I typed it.


----------



## Norman Bum

Cool, I'll be in there more often for sure. I'm so glad they added these chat channels, however it's a couple months late. The community would be much stronger now if they had implemented the system at release. Not to mention all of the people who claimed they weren't going to buy the game if it did not include Chat Channels haha


----------



## brl3git

I just recently started to play this game and really enjoy it, I was pleasantly surprised to see ocn has its own community of players


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brl3git;12256675*
> I just recently started to play this game and really enjoy it, I was pleasantly surprised to see ocn has its own community of players


Bookmark / follow my blog, I'll be teaching ya'll a lot about the game as the weeks go by.

Starcraft is all about practice, and teaching. Constant practice and constant learning is essential to the game.

I am the Jedi, you are the paddawan, get it?


----------



## brl3git

Constant practice is something I need. I dont expect to be "pro" right of the bat,but I've tried all the races to kind of get a feel for which one I like the best and I would definitely have to say im a Zerg player and no not for the ling rush. I just love how versatile you can be from 2 or 3 base play being able to change tech quickly and counter quite well. I'll subscribe for sure though I look forward to learning a few things.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12256698*
> Bookmark / follow my blog, I'll be teaching ya'll a lot about the game as the weeks go by.
> 
> Starcraft is all about practice, and teaching. Constant practice and constant learning is essential to the game.
> 
> I am the Jedi, you are the paddawan, get it?


I don't think you will be teaching all of us







.


----------



## thiru

Btw you should remove your email, don't want to get spam or something.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12256526*
> Finally 2800+.
> 
> Wins vs Zerg today with no cheese: 0-1
> 
> Wins vs Zerg today with Marine SCV pushes : 3-0.
> 
> ....


Hey Dash, do you have replays of a game with the no-cheese win and with the scv pushes? I wanna see how both work, if you dont mind plz?


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Any Protoss try this 5 zealot 8 stalker build? Apparently if you do it right, you have 5 zealots and 8 stalkers at ~6:25, right around the time a normal warpgate would be cooling down from it's first wave of warp-ins/Just warping in the second wave. Documented here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171264

EDIT: It's kind of lame, and all-in-ish, but might be worth a try.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12248377*
> A huge problem with fast hellions is that they're cheap enough to sacrifice them to kill workers, which means they attack with little or no fear. Terrans get an early hellion ball and it's virtually guaranteed that they'll get at least their money's worth out of it, and typically much more than that, especially with medivac drops having to be accounted for. Either zerg loses mass drones or he is forced to quickly make a heavy investment in roaches and spinecrawlers, which is not what zerg wants to do. Immediately after the medivac/hellions you get tanks, marauders, and marines showing up outside the zerg natural, maybe with a banshee or two. All those crawlers and roaches are worthless against sieged-up tanks with MM support. It's irritating that the tanks are produced out of the same structure as the hellions, which means the tech switch is seamless and quick. The banshees are also produced out of the same structure as the medivacs. Trainsitioning from medivac/hellion to banshee/tank is super easy because the tech lab is so fast and cheap. I'd like the tech lab to be a bit more expensive and have a longer build time.


I dunno know how Blizzard intends to fix it, but, hellion harass followed by MMT is pretty hard to stop. I guess fast teching to mutas with some crawlers and getting a warren to get some roaches as you tech are the best option atm








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12249361*
> Speedlings/Roaches with banes is standard ZvT though. He's not investing a serious ton of resources if he plays standard since in the long term those units will always be useful. Two spines only costs 200 minerals and 2 drones and will hold off any early marine/hellion pressure. By the time that you have enough to get past the 2 spines he should have Lair tech.


That 200 could've went for something else







Having said that, I usually lay spines down anyways, because, I'll rather be safe against any harass








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12255274*
> As for the maps, I like 1-3, but 4 is hella imba for Terran ( main can be hit my siege tanks ), and 5 I just didn't like. 1 is like a fair version of lost temple!! I like it.


Are these maps, the same ones that the GSL adopted?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12256571*
> I used to, when Sc2 first released we would do KOTH and practice games with 10+ OCN'ers all the time. I took a break from Sc2 for a month or so and have yet to reconnect with you guys lol!
> 
> My blog is sexy so far though, y/n?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah man that would be awesome, really appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My new in-game is *Aesop.496*
> 
> Or, Real-ID:


I would remove that real-id otherwise you'll start getting spammed


----------



## poroboszcz

Here's my new PvZ strat which is pretty hard for a zerg to deal with. This is the 2nd time I've done it, so the opening can sure be improved, but I got priceless reaction from the opponent.

Normally it works even better, but he scouted my whole tech early on, which still didn't help him against the mighty mothership.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*




Here's my new PvZ strat which is pretty hard for a zerg to deal with. This is the 2nd time I've done it, so the opening can sure be improved, but I got priceless reaction from the opponent.

Normally it works even better, but he scouted my whole tech early on, which still didn't help him against the mighty mothership.










I'm at work so I can't watch, but I'm assuming mothership rush? I had a masters player try those shenanigans against me, scouted him out with suicidal overseer and went mass hydra with just a few roaches.

He definetly wasn't the first to try it either, has yet to work on me.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I'm at work so I can't watch, but I'm assuming mothership rush? I had a masters player try those shenanigans against me, scouted him out with suicidal overseer and went mass hydra with just a few roaches.

He definetly wasn't the first to try it either, has yet to work on me.


No rush at all. A regular macro play based around mothership and +3 archons. You guess the rest.


----------



## Raptor_Jesus

Yeah at first I was trying to figure out why you were going down every tech tree toss had to offer. But then when I saw the fleet beacon, and archons being morphed, I knew I was going to watch something beautiful. Gotta love the Archon toilet, if done correctly.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


No rush at all. A regular macro play based around mothership and +3 archons. You guess the rest.











what was your opening and meta game? and how did the zerg respomd?

not in country atm cant watch


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


Hey Dash, do you have replays of a game with the no-cheese win and with the scv pushes? I wanna see how both work, if you dont mind plz?


Well I used to do more tank Marine medivac builds, but lately I've been doing Thor's. TvZ is by far my worst match up though so this may not help you.

*Non-cheese TvZ:*




*Cheese TvZ:*






Honestly the cheese is a pretty damn strong strat. It punishes people who power / don't build spines / slow bane. If you look at the way I normally do it I even have a fast in base command center to replace my scvs if they do manage to hold it off. Almost always you will come out ahead unless he is very prepared for it. It's probably broken in it's current state but it's the only thing that I can figure out how to reliably beat Zerg @ equal skill level.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


No rush at all. A regular macro play based around mothership and +3 archons. You guess the rest.










Archon toilet???? Yessss DLing.


----------



## CramComplex

I'm on the PTR and want to test out the new maps...anyone wanna tag along?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


I'm on the PTR and want to test out the new maps...anyone wanna tag along?


I can.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CramComplex;12266020*
> I'm on the PTR and want to test out the new maps...anyone wanna tag along?


I'm interested, will try to be on in a while


----------



## DoomDash

This is a good fun read:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138967&currentpage=176#3518


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12267701*
> This is a good fun read:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138967&currentpage=176#3518


i lol'ed


----------



## thiru

Gonna play in the TL Open again in a few hours for the lulz


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190481

hahahahahahhaha, about artosis, idra, and tasteless


----------



## thiru

lol

btw vdek, that strat _was_ 2 months old xD

I got baneling busted today. LOL. Lost a gate, a cyber and my whole army (first try I FF'd in time, but he got in the second time with even more banelings). It was down to 2 hastily warped in zealots and a bunch of probes to kill a dozen speedlings, but I won and later trashed his mutaling army with gate+phoenix.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12267701*
> This is a good fun read:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138967&currentpage=176#3518


lol!

Did you know that EGIdrA is an anogram for "I raged"?

And thanks for adding my blog to the thread Thiru, I'm having a lot of fun with it atm, and the more followers the better


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


what was your opening and meta game? and how did the zerg respomd?

not in country atm cant watch


It's something like 3 gate sentry expand into 5 gate stargate, templar archives, into phoenix scout/harass while getting DTs asap into DT harass into mothership into 3rd into archons and +3 attack into gg.

Zerg went roach corruptor with some hydras. The harass part didn't work this game because of him scouting all my tech early which i should have prevented with earlier phoenix. I still ended up ahead though which doesn't even matter once you have mothership and archons out.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Gonna play in the TL Open again in a few hours for the lulz










Me too, GL.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It's something like 3 gate sentry expand into 5 gate stargate, templar archives, into phoenix scout/harass while getting DTs asap into DT harass into mothership into 3rd into archons and +3 attack into gg.

Zerg went roach corruptor with some hydras.

Me too, GL.










 lol I'll have to try that









GL to you too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=190481

hahahahahahhaha, about artosis, idra, and tasteless


Epic.


----------



## thiru

I got a free win in round 1 and got roflstomped by a 3.4k master terran xD


----------



## DoomDash

stupid ladder







. win +10! loss -14! guy 100 points higher than you, match even... beats you... play him 2 more times in a row!!!!!-840810$*(#$)#


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


stupid ladder







. win +10! loss -14! guy 100 points higher than you, match even... beats you... play him 2 more times in a row!!!!!-840810$*(#$)#


You need to be like me and just save up your bonus pool









27 ladder games today, 17 wins, 10 losses. Woot! Now I'm at 2050 points but no masters yet =[


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


You need to be like me and just save up your bonus pool









27 ladder games today, 17 wins, 10 losses. Woot! Now I'm at 2050 points but no masters yet =[


But saving bonus pool takes forever too.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12272945*
> You need to be like me and just save up your bonus pool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 27 ladder games today, 17 wins, 10 losses. Woot! Now I'm at 2050 points but no masters yet =[


I'm 2800 and I'm still not in masters. It's all based on MMR (you probably already knew that).


----------



## yks

Vdek is prolly the closest one of all of us, MMR wise. He was fighting masters on a consistent basis earlier.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12276338*
> Vdek is prolly the closest one of all of us, MMR wise. He was fighting masters on a consistent basis earlier.


What? Even closer than me?







XD
Jk of course









Edit: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/DJZapZ/PvPflowchart.jpg


----------



## DoomDash

ggs jedi. One day I'll be OK at TvZ.


----------



## Gigalisk

No. 1 in my Division! (Bronze league) w00T! Here is the game that did it:



Please critique...so i may get better. And please check out my replays that i have in my sig...i'm uploading a ton!

Thanks,

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;12278249*
> No. 1 in my Division! (Bronze league) w00T! Here is the game that did it:
> 
> [simg]http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186752.jpg[/img]
> 
> Please critique...so i may get better. And please check out my replays that i have in my sig...i'm uploading a ton!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gigalisk
> (Forward Deployed)


Make probes 24/7 until you have about 70 or 80 of them.

Don't build things in the middle of the map, stick to main base, as well as natural and expansions if you're afraid of losing everything to drops.

Don't build cannons unless you're expecting drops or mutalisks or banshees. Or if you have lots of far away expansions.

Get a more balanced army composition, instead of 100% zealots at the beginning. Sentries and robo units are cool.

If you spend your money well, you should only be able to support 4 gateways/robos/stargates per base.

Use hotkeys and macro groups better. Use 1-3 for units, 1 for nexus and 1 for robo/stargate.


----------



## DoomDash

Zealots vs Terran in the beginning? Sounds bad.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12278559*
> Zealots vs Terran in the beginning? Sounds bad.


Terran didn't kite with his 100% marauders xD so it actually worked out fine. But that doesn't work at all very quickly later in the ladder.


----------



## Gigalisk

Thanks! I'll try...although using hotkeys is not big on me until like mid game when im traversing between 2 bases.

Yeah, the Zealots v. Marauders worked because i dont think he upgraded....i had at least lvl 1 weaps, and i hid behind the cannons. Once those were destroyed i had time to add some stalkers before i pounced on him. Then all i had to do was keep adding units.

The reason i put it in the middle is because it was easier to reach out to anyone on the map in about the same timeframe on anywhere in the map..that way if i wanted to do a multifronted attack, like on 2 bases, then i could without having to wait for units to catch up.

I know probably some well protected pylons may have done the trick, but the gateways served as a nice wall for the pylons, while i warped in more units.

U guys rock, i will try to incorporate your thoughts into my strats. Thanks!

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;12278608*
> Thanks! I'll try...although using hotkeys is not big on me until like mid game when im traversing between 2 bases.
> 
> Yeah, the Zealots v. Marauders worked because i dont think he upgraded....i had at least lvl 1 weaps, and i hid behind the cannons. Once those were destroyed i had time to add some stalkers before i pounced on him. Then all i had to do was keep adding units.
> 
> The reason i put it in the middle is because it was easier to reach out to anyone on the map in about the same timeframe on anywhere in the map..that way if i wanted to do a multifronted attack, like on 2 bases, then i could without having to wait for units to catch up.
> 
> I know probably some well protected pylons may have done the trick, but the gateways served as a nice wall for the pylons, while i warped in more units.
> 
> U guys rock, i will try to incorporate your thoughts into my strats. Thanks!
> 
> Gigalisk
> (Forward Deployed)


No, the only reason your pure zealot army worked against his marauders is because he didn't bother kiting your units and didn't stim. Kiting is when you alternate quickly between attacking and moving away so that other units can't shoot/strike them effectively. It works especially well with marines and marauders because they have stim, which makes them move faster (and attack faster) than most units temporarily. And marauders have concussion shells which slows units.

If you put all those buildings in the middle and lose a battle, he can destroy all those gates and there's nothing you can do about it. If they were in your base, you could protect them just by having one sentry cast forcefield on the ramp (also attacking up a ramp is hard) while you mass more units.
So just put a pylon in a not too obvious place to warp in units, no need to protect them.

Also putting your army in the middle means that you're very susceptible to drops or harassing.

Also don't build near the ramp against terran or protoss, it's very easy to lose those buildings.


----------



## DoomDash

You don't even need stim depending on numbers.


----------



## DoomDash

Bad day was bad.... last game was a crash at 1 min into the game vs someone I was favored against.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches#filter=solo

-98 points, and 1 % w/l ratio drop in one day, on a day I wouldn't even say I was playing bad.


----------



## Norman Bum

Been playing 4v4 Randoms the past couple days, got to Diamond. It's so frustrating playing with randoms, the things they do.....

For instance, in one game a teammate had 10 marines with 2 tanks and a hellion, 14 minutes into the game. Don't know how we won that one


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmEWrxklf8U&feature=player_embedded


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmEWr...layer_embedded


Yah, most of us saw that live blinker because it was right after Liquid vs Dignitas clan war









But damn that was a crazy good game by Idra and IMMvp. That's what the GSL finals should have been!


----------



## yks

When you get SUPER mad @ 1s and you get frustrated, do you know what you do?










You play 2s Random for the very first time and 2v1 people.

44 points... I WISH I get that many points in 1s


----------



## Gigalisk

Really? That hurts. LOL


----------



## vdek

Dustin Bowder Interview

Part1:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-1/

Part2:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-2/

memorable quote:

Quote:



Q. What are your thoughts on the Terran 2-Rax All-in Strategy?

We are still seeing a lot of those and we are kind of waiting to see if it gets blocked at some point or not. If it doesn't get blocked then we will deal with it. We still think it is a little early to say that is a given.

We'll see. That is definitely something we are watching and something we are concerned about.

Q. And they'll keep on winning in the meantime&#8230;

Yeah right. I wonder if they stop doing that garbage they would they win more games or is that the only way to play for them?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'm getting annoyed with this fast hellion crap. It seems like every Terran player in the world simultaneously figured out that hellions are cheap enough to sacrifice to kill drones.


----------



## Sainesk

I haven't played in a few days, but anyone else pumped for the team league?

who do you think will win?

I call fOu...


----------



## poroboszcz

oGs


----------



## Mwarren

Why would they try to fix an all in build? Actually I take that back, 2 rax can be all in if you want it to but a lot of players use it to scare the zerg and apply pressure early on so the zerg isn't free to drone up. Spines will stop a 2 rax all in anyways.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Dustin Bowder Interview

Part1:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-1/

Part2:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-2/

memorable quote:


veranice.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Dustin Bowder Interview

Part1:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-1/

Part2:
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interv...signer-part-2/

memorable quote:


Yeah I saw that, but I think that two rax should be left the way it is.. its a great way of punishing bad Zerg players who are greedy. A good Zerg player will hold it off.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


When you get SUPER mad @ 1s and you get frustrated, do you know what you do?










You play 2s Random for the very first time and 2v1 people.

44 points... I WISH I get that many points in 1s


Haha, I actually think you need higher bs tolerance when playing team games. It's all fun until you start losing to people much worse than you and/or getting particularly bad allies.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.fnatic.com/news/8445/PLAY...#comment-92551


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12285904*
> http://www.fnatic.com/news/8445/PLAY-SC2-Open-Feb-6th.html#comment-92551


Tuned in with TB casting...WOW...now this is Terran vs Terran...ClouD just wiped the floor with Sjow's face...holy...

One of the mistakes Sjow did in 2 games....2 games was not get siege tech...he took it too late and the drop via 3 medivacs was the killing blow.

Wow...I wonder when's the time I can actually pull this kind of play off in Silver.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12284923*
> Haha, I actually think you need higher bs tolerance when playing team games. It's all fun until you start losing to people much worse than you and/or getting particularly bad allies.


Yeah? How bs is bs? I never really do randoms. But the amount of cheese in teams in incomparable.

After taking the frustration out in 2s, it's a double edge sword, cause now I don't want to 1s and lose, haha


----------



## vdek




----------



## DoomDash

Congrats.

yks what are you waiting for?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Haha, I actually think you need higher bs tolerance when playing team games. It's all fun until you start losing to people much worse than you and/or getting particularly bad allies.


2v2's is all fun and games until B.net pairs you with silver players when your top 5 in NA. <---Reason I'm sitting on 500 bonus pool. 1v1 > all anyways.

Grats on Master's vdek.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Congrats.

yks what are you waiting for?



I'll be there soon bros, I'll be there soon.

Grats again, Vdek!! Glad I was there on stream with you!!!!!!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I'll be there soon bros, I'll be there soon.

Grats again, Vdek!! Glad I was there on stream with you!!!!!!



You're next! Do eeeeeeeet!!

Thanks folks


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Saw something funny in a game with a plat toss. He had a mothership and threw the toilet bowl on the bulk of my army, which had a lot of banelings in it. Then he made the mistake of letting a big chunk of his own army get sucked in. Mothership goes down, toilet bowl empties, and immediately there is an enormous explosion. All the banelings had blown up simultaneously and killed the toss army. I'd never thought about what would happen when banelings and enemy units are in the toilet together.


----------



## yks

GSL March Groups:

Group A
IMMvp -> oGsHyperdub -> ST_July -> oGsMC

Group B
EGIdrA -> TSL_Clide -> oGsZenio -> ZeNEXByun

Group C
LiquidJinro -> PoltPrime.We -> ST_RainBOw -> CheckPrime.We

Group D
oGsNaDa -> TheBestfOu -> HongUnPrime.We -> oGsTop

Group E
IMNesTea -> sanZenith -> SlayerS_BoxeR -> oGsEnsnare

Group F
choyafOu -> FOXLyn -> BanBansZenith -> oGsTheWind

Group G
TSL_Trickster -> anyproPrime.We -> NsPGenius -> TSL_FruitDealer

Group H
MarineKingPrime.We -> ZeNEXKyrix -> sCfOu -> oGsInCa


----------



## thiru

Is there a post on TL explaining how this whole thing works? lots of things don't really make sense right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Trying to beat MarineKingPrime with a base trade is basically like trying to drown Aqua Man. - Tasteless


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Is there a post on TL explaining how this whole thing works? lots of things don't really make sense right now.


what you confused with thiru?


----------



## thiru

How idra and jinro are playing, how they chose the groups, why there are groups where 2 players come from the same team even though there are 8 teams, etc.


----------



## yks

What I posted was GSL March, the solo league. Just like how it was in January

Right now for FEB. it's the team league.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


What I posted was GSL March, the solo league. Just like how it was in January

Right now for FEB. it's the team league.


Ahh lol makes more sense.


----------



## DoomDash

GSLTL:

Squirtille 4-0's all Terran players from fou........

Game 3 his unit comp may be unbeatable mid-late game lol.


----------



## yks

Ocv ocv!!!


----------



## vdek

I'm actually really excited about the upcoming Code A games :O

  
 You Tube


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


GSLTL:

Squirtille 4-0's all Terran players from fou........

Game 3 his unit comp may be unbeatable mid-late game lol.



Who is Squirtille? Google doesn't find him. I assume he's Protoss. I can't think of a zerg composition that's even close to unbeatable.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Saw something funny in a game with a plat toss. He had a mothership and threw the toilet bowl on the bulk of my army, which had a lot of banelings in it. Then he made the mistake of letting a big chunk of his own army get sucked in. Mothership goes down, toilet bowl empties, and immediately there is an enormous explosion. All the banelings had blown up simultaneously and killed the toss army. I'd never thought about what would happen when banelings and enemy units are in the toilet together.


There are a LOT of things wrong with the last sentence of that paragraph, but anywho...

Me and some teammates are going to try doing the archon toilet but with banelings and a mothership. In most team games people go for the mass rines/zealot/stalker/marauder/roach combos so it should be fairly easy to chuck maybe 10banelings in there and wipe out a whole army.


----------



## rhed5

congrats vdek on masters. man that didn't take long after you decided to ladder


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


congrats vdek on masters. man that didn't take long after you decided to ladder


Thanks, though I wasnt as quick as you in getting in


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


congrats vdek on masters. man that didn't take long after you decided to ladder


I think yks + vdek got bugged a lot by me to ladder







.

Who else is avoiding it? I wonder.....


----------



## yks

hahahaha, vdek, i went to your page just to watch the full version of you screaming.

i think you said, "nice..." like 100 times.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think yks + vdek got bugged a lot by me to ladder







.



You're like a nagging parent! I had to do it to stop you!!!!!









Thanks for the support btw, I probably wouldn't have been laddering anywhere near as much if I wasn't playing with you, yks, jediwin, and crew.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


hahahaha, vdek, i went to your page just to watch the full version of you screaming.

i think you said, "nice..." like 100 times.


Hahaha, I edited that out of the youtube video because I think I got way too excited. I wasn't expecting it at all since I had 4 straight losses.


----------



## DoomDash

Sadly I had to block yks on my buddylist.


----------



## yks

i will NEVER watch Back to the Future.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


i will NEVER watch Back to the Future.


Then you will never be unblocked. I cannot enabled you to be ignorant to 80's classics. Sometimes the best love is tough love.


----------



## yks

It's like the religion thing all over again.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


It's like the religion thing all over again.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/

8.4, 72nd highest rated movie of all time. Stop watching the trash that comes out in theaters now.

Next thing you are going to tell me that you've never seen the Indiana Jones Trilogy. I can only take being stabbed in the heart so many times by a single person.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/

8.4, 72nd highest rated movie of all time. Stop watching the trash that comes out in theaters now.

Next thing you are going to tell me that you've never seen the Indiana Jones Trilogy. I can only take being stabbed in the heart so many times by a single person.


Wait there's 3 of them?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Wait there's 3 of them?


3 of what? Indiana Jones? BTF? Yes to both.... ( I don't acknowledge a 4th Indiana though ).


----------



## thiru

Nah I was kidding.

Ok what do you guys do in PvP? I got sick of doing colossus wars, and up until now I was 4gating but it's boring as hell and ends up in stupid base trades sometimes.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah I was kidding.

Ok what do you guys do in PvP? I got sick of doing colossus wars, and up until now I was 4gating but it's boring as hell and ends up in stupid base trades sometimes.


Pick Terran.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pick Terran.


I hate tanks.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah I was kidding.

Ok what do you guys do in PvP? I got sick of doing colossus wars, and up until now I was 4gating but it's boring as hell and ends up in stupid base trades sometimes.


The same thing I do when I play ZvZs, beat my head in with a stick.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The same thing I do when I play ZvZs, beat my head in with a stick.


You should do Destiny's build in zvz


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You should do Destiny's build in zvz










I'm not Destiny unfortunately, his style is very unique to him =[

Update the OP please, I'm not diamond anymore


----------



## yks

My brief explanation of all mirror matchups:

TvT: Longest matchup of the 3 and the best in terms of mulitple variations and unit combination.

ZVZ: Shortest matchup of the 3 with mild variation; mistakes here are most punishable and severe.

PVP: Stupidest matchup of the 3 because theres no variation. 4gate vs 4gate and if both players survive: Colossus War


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I'm not Destiny unfortunately, his style is very unique to him =[

Update the OP please, I'm not diamond anymore










Hahah yeah

But you have to watch the last hours of today's stream, when Debo comes on, I haven't laughed so much on his stream in weeks, it was freaking hilarious


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I hate tanks.


So do Korean style TvT Bio....


----------



## yks

What happened with Debo? hahaha


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


What happened with Debo? hahaha


He was invited to their skype and him and Destiny had a longggg argument about balance, and they both had pretty hilarious metaphors and 'interesting' ways of illustrating their respective points


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He was invited to their skype and him and Destiny had a longggg argument about balance, and they both had pretty hilarious metaphors and 'interesting' ways of illustrating their respective points










Cliffs?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cliffs?


wat?


----------



## yks

like the term: cliffnote, i'm guessing.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


wat?


Cliff Notes. It's a popular series of books that middle school to college students use to get a summary of a book. So instead of reading The Scarlet letter, you read the 15 page cliff notes and get the jist of the book.










TL;DR: Cliff notes are another way of saying TL;DR.


----------



## Nevaziah

I guess its my turn now to get into masters.. Sigh, and here i was hoping to coast through the next few months. Im gonna slowly phase out team games and concentrate on 1v1s ladders and practices.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/

8.4, 72nd highest rated movie of all time. Stop watching the trash that comes out in theaters now.

Next thing you are going to tell me that you've never seen the Indiana Jones Trilogy. I can only take being stabbed in the heart so many times by a single person.


Here, lemme have a shot. Ive never watched them. But i have seen back to the future 1 and 2. They are preety good.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah I was kidding.

Ok what do you guys do in PvP? I got sick of doing colossus wars, and up until now I was 4gating but it's boring as hell and ends up in stupid base trades sometimes.


I use 4gate but depending on maps, the ramps can be a pain with well timed forcefields. Dash might be right, when you get to the point that you see NOTHING new (just 4gates or colossus wars all over) and you actually get agravated by it, it might be time to consider another race for a bit. I dont mind doing colossus wars or 4 gating, cause i probably do it about 20% of the time, in PvZ, or PvP, as opposed to my other matchups :

PvT, TvP, TvZ, TvT, ZvP, ZvT, ZvZ

please pick zerg, you will go nuts


----------



## Twistacles

In PvP, I do a 3gate allin or some other variation. It hard-counters Korean 4gate and usually smashes standard 4gate. The only problem is if they go some robo variation or a 3gate allin themselves. I don't mind it as much as I used to cause I like microing.
It is stupid, though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


i will NEVER watch Back to the Future.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Then you will never be unblocked. I cannot enabled you to be ignorant to 80's classics. Sometimes the best love is tough love.


XD Back to the future? Is that some movie?









Congrats on the promotion vdek


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Hahah yeah

But you have to watch the last hours of today's stream, when Debo comes on, I haven't laughed so much on his stream in weeks, it was freaking hilarious










hahahahahaah, started listening from Part 7

Destiny's stream got so much more interesting when he got fired. He's starting to hangout with a lot of top players and skyping with em


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12294318*
> Me and some teammates are going to try doing the archon toilet but with banelings and a mothership. In most team games people go for the mass rines/zealot/stalker/marauder/roach combos so it should be fairly easy to chuck maybe 10banelings in there and wipe out a whole army.


Lets be more exact!
Stalker: 9 banes
Roach: 9 banes
Marauder: 7 banes
Tank: 9 banes
Thor: 22 banes
Colossus: 19 banes
Immortal: 21 banes
Hydra: 3 banes
Marine: 2 banes

So theres no need to get more than 22 banelings in your vortex baneling. And 10 does seem to be a good number. Will get anything but thors, immortal, and collosus.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12295452*
> Cliff Notes. It's a popular series of books that middle school to college students use to get a summary of a book. So instead of reading The Scarlet letter, you read the 15 page cliff notes and get the jist of the book.
> 
> [ismg]http://westernarab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cliffnotes.jpg[/img]
> 
> TL;DR: Cliff notes are another way of saying TL;DR.


Umm ok...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;12295622*
> In PvP, I do a 3gate allin or some other variation. It hard-counters Korean 4gate and usually smashes standard 4gate. The only problem is if they go some robo variation or a 3gate allin themselves. I don't mind it as much as I used to cause I like microing.
> It is stupid, though.


How does that work?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12295842*
> hahahahahaah, started listening from Part 7
> 
> Destiny's stream got so much more interesting when he got fired. He's starting to hangout with a lot of top players and skyping with em


Yeah, he's getting so much better thanks to thundertoss







although he doesn't rage as much


----------



## Mcdonalds420

I like to build lots of tanks. Then I send them in and hope I win.


----------



## yks

GSL March Group Selection Interview thing:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



On Feb. 7th at 3PM KST (GMT +9), Code S Players will participate in group nominations for GSL Mar.

GSL Mar. will be the third league of 2011 GSL (Global StarCraft® II League) Tour hosted by GOM TV and Ro32 will start on Feb. 22nd. Top 8 players from GSL Jan. will be placed in groups A through H.

IMMvp will be in group A and MarineKingPrime.We will be in group H. 3rd through 8th place including LiquidJinro and EGIdrA will each get to select a group. Top 8 players will also get to choose a player they want to have in each of their groups. The selected player will then get to choose the next player to have in his group and so on until there are 4 players in each group.

The event will be broadcasted on GOMtv.net and John (Junkka) will provide interpretations.

Group A : IMMvp -> oGshyperdub -> ST_July -> oGsMC

IMMvp : I will eliminate one Terran as there are many of them

July : I wanna make this group as fun as possible (after being picked bit late)

July : When I lost I got a big shock. Since this group is already a hard one I want this group to be the death group (after picking oGsMC)

Group B : EGIdrA -> TSL_Clide -> oGsZenio -> ZeNEXByun

IdrA : I chose this group to avoid TSL_Trickster and oGsMC

IdrA : (After choosing Clide) I enjoyed having games with him last season and I want to have another fun match.

Clide : I would have picked IdrA if I was a seeder as well. I thought I couldn't put up a fight I could when I lost to him so I also wanted to play him again

Clide : Thought about picking oGsMC but I gave up as he's too strong
oGsMC : (replies) Please pick me. I do not wish to team-kill. If you pick me I will pick anyone you want that is not oGs.

Clide : I also do not like team-kills happening in the same group. So I chose a Zerg from oGs (after picking oGsZenio)

oGsZenio : I really wanted to play with IdrA so I appreciate Clide for picking me. I will thank him by choosing another Terran player. (Before picking Byun)

oGsZenio : New maps are pretty decent for ZvT so I chose a terran (after picking Byun)

Group C
LiquidJinro -> PoltPrime.We -> ST_RainBOw -> CheckPrime.We

Polt : I lost to Jinro before but I was playing SC2 while studying for school. This time I won't go down that easy.

Jinro : Ok, just please do not pick a protoss. (To Polt)

Polt : Having another Terran would be helpful to practise. (Picks Rainbow)

Rainbow : I thought It would be good if a group contains all Terrans and now it is looking like that and I'm glad. I've improvised my style for TvT so don't underestimate me for how I played before.

Check : I asked Rainbow to pick me. I want to beat him before I serve my military service.

Rainbow : I was actually going to pick Byun but Check asked me to pick him and even his interview says that he wants to play with me again so I picked him.

Group D
oGsNaDa -> TheBestfOu -> HongUnPrime.We -> oGsTop

NaDa : Appears Naive and innocent.... (reason for picking thebest)
TheBest : I'm honoured. I started to play Starcraft because of you.

HongUn : As far as I know thebest is 1st ranked in the ladder and he is playing really well not to mention NaDa is amazing. I will try to build a career like them in this group.

HongUn : I didn't get to practice with new maps much so I will pick another terran to ease up my practice. I've been bad with TvPs lately and I will try to get my confidence up (Picks oGsTOP)

TOP : I doubt whether you can get your confidence back, I will show HongUn a new play of Terran.

Group E
IMNesTea -> sanZenith -> SlayerS_BoxeR -> oGsEnsnare

NesTea: I picked Group E to avoid MarineKing and IMMvP. I want to have easy games to I chose sanZenith.

San: He is right about me being easy. I don't wish to get up that far. So I will choose the strongest player for Nestea. (Replies back to NesTea)

oGsMC : Pick me. Would I be a nuclear bomb in the group? (Says to San as he thinks about who to pick)

BoxeR : I don't know why he picked me, I hope I can get through in this group. (After being picked)

San : I couldn't see a player who could defeat NesTea but you.

BoxeR : I don't think San can beat NesTea either. Ensnare and TheWinD owes me a favour (as he chooses Ensnare), I helped them to take photos with SNSD.

Ensnare : I was going to thank him for picking me.. but I don't know what to say because he mentioned about SNSD photos.. I'm lost.

Group F
choyafOu -> FOXLyn -> BanBansZenith -> oGsTheWind

choya: Lyn has a nickname of Sin(=God) when others don't. So I wanted to play him (after picking Lyn)

Lyn: I'm rather sad. My name was missing from GomTV website and my nickname was misspelt. I think my reputation in SC2 scene is small. I will try harder. I am improving lately so you can count on me for a fun game. (To choya)

Lyn : I chose BanBan because we lack in mutual friends so I probably won't have a good chance to be a friend with him.

BanBan : Not a bad group to play TBH.
TheWinD : I've been in Code S for a very long time now somehow. I will try my best to play good games.

Group G
TSL_Trickster -> anyproPrime.We -> NsPGenius -> TSL_FruitDealer

Tester: After how I watched him play in GSL January I thought I could beat him (after picking anypro)

anypro : I did not want to play PvPs... I am bit down for being picked
anypro : (after picking Genius) I've talked him few days ago and we agreed not to pick each other but since there are 2 protosses in the group already I've picked Genius)

Genius : (After being picked) Group A~D seemed easy so I was hoping to get in there. Now there are three protosses if there is any protoss left over I will pick the protoss.

Inca : (Genius asks him if it was ok for him to pick Inca) I actually like PvP's but I do not want to play them on new maps. I am not ready yet.

FD : (when Genius looks at him) I will buy you any dinner you want, please don't pick me.

Genius : Foreign fans wanted to see me play with FruidDealer at BlizzCon so I picked him (after picking FD)

FD : I didn't want to be in because Tester is in.
Tester : You and I could advance together I would think.

Group H
MarineKingPrime.We -> ZeNEXKyrix -> sCfOu -> oGsInCa

MKP : I wanted to play Kyrix. I thought he wouldn't be able to come up to Code S but he made it

Kyrix : I am sure that guy doesn't like me. I will make him regret.

MKP : I don't dislike you. I only wanted to play with you.

Kyrix : (after picking sCfoU) he's also terran like MKP and I think I can beat him.

sCfOu : Kyrix is still at an amateur level.
sCfOu : (picks oGsInca) I wanted a good game with protoss so it's well picked. I haven't played protoss on new maps tho.


----------



## BigFan

Sad news, my 570 just died







Tried to turn on my computer but no signal on either port. Put my 8800gts back in and everything is fine, guess its RMA time









Edit: Well, umm I don't know how to explain it but, for some bizzare reason, it seems to be working now but the drivers are missing??? Wonder if I'm the only one who had such an issue like this


----------



## slytown

http://www.overclock.net/video-game-...l#post12303638

Go vote Day9 for a shorty. Why? Because he asked us too.


----------



## Gigalisk

GOD and this replay that i'm posting is why Terran continues to be anti-hetero, which should SHAME some of you real Terran players. I'm sorry but this is a really gross (for lack of a more insulting word or medium to profess this word) tactic.










TERRAN PLAYERS: If you do this you will be outcast from whatever circle you think you belong to.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


GOD and this replay that i'm posting is why Terran continues to be anti-hetero, which should SHAME some of you real Terran players. I'm sorry but this is a really gross (for lack of a more insulting word or medium to profess this word) tactic.










TERRAN PLAYERS: If you do this you will be outcast from whatever circle you think you belong to.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


You do realize that any race can do this and that terran is the worst race to do this with? you had more workers than he had, you should have won that easily.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


GOD and this replay that i'm posting is why Terran continues to be anti-hetero, which should SHAME some of you real Terran players. I'm sorry but this is a really gross (for lack of a more insulting word or medium to profess this word) tactic.










TERRAN PLAYERS: If you do this you will be outcast from whatever circle you think you belong to.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


Your problems have nothing to do with Terran.


----------



## Psyren

I haven't actually read this thread before, so i'm not sure if this has been brought up...

I just recently read about some ProMod that TL have been working on for SC2, and that they are planning to push this mod into the competitive scene. Just wanted to know what you guys think about all this?


----------



## thiru

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Psyren*   I haven't actually read this thread before, so i'm not sure if this has been brought up...

I just recently read about some ProMod that TL have been working on for SC2, and that they are planning to push this mod into the competitive scene. Just wanted to know what you guys think about all this?  
Isn't that thing a joke?

I lol'd at making stalkers and immortal move like dragoons:

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

ProMod? What does that mean?


----------



## thiru

This:
http://sc2promod.com/

Idra's reaction to Promod:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...ost_id=7444937


----------



## Psyren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Isn't that thing a joke?

I lol'd at making stalkers and immortal move like dragoons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRhW...eature=related


Lol...

Well i'm off to play now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


This:
http://sc2promod.com/

Idra's reaction to Promod:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...ost_id=7444937











Wow, that's horrible.


----------



## thiru

So I'm trying to get platinum in all leagues and 2v2 is the last one, and I just played this game..

THIS IS THE MOST EPIC 1V2 COMEBACK EVER.

ZZvPT, they double 6pool and kill my noob T teammate and I wall off with a cannon.

Transition into 4gate + warp prism and I killed one Z's economy and hurt the other one's with some drops while I made a couple void rays because they went roaches.

It's so ridiculous I was ready to quit at any moment xD

PS: yeah I know they suck, but this is still pretty sweet


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12307968*
> So I'm trying to get platinum in all leagues and 2v2 is the last one, and I just played this game..
> 
> THIS IS THE MOST EPIC 1V2 COMEBACK EVER.
> 
> ZZvPT, they double 6pool and kill my noob T teammate and I wall off with a cannon.
> 
> Transition into 4gate + warp prism and I killed one Z's economy and hurt the other one's with some drops while I made a couple void rays because they went roaches.
> 
> It's so ridiculous I was ready to quit at any moment xD
> 
> PS: yeah I know they suck, but this is still pretty sweet


I was watching that replay you would of lost if the teal zerg wasn't a bronze level. He was running off 5 or 6 drones the whole games so it was like a 1 and 1/2 vs 1. LOL at your teammate tho, give me your money he was like why? lol like he was going to do anything.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


I was watching that replay you would of lost if the teal zerg wasn't a bronze level. He was running off 5 or 6 drones the whole games so it was like a 1 and 1/2 vs 1. LOL at your teammate tho, give me your money he was like why? lol like he was going to do anything.


I know, his score was terribad. But even with the units and resources they had, they should have won because they had more than enough roaches to kill me at my entrance.

edit: and yeah my team mate was such a boob, not giving me money and NOT WALLING OFF. What kind of terran doesn't wall off against 2 zergs, especially when I scouted the 6pools and told him?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


. What kind of terran doesn't wall off against 2 zergs, especially when I scouted the 6pools and told him?


The same kind that uses marines to counter banelings.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The same kind that uses marines to counter banelings.


-_-

I'm in gold league 2v2.

That means I'm playing with people who are like in bronze 1v1 with 10 games but 400 in team games and all they know are all-ins or tech cheeses.

I just played a PPvTT, it was pretty fun because we both went robo (I added phoenixes) and they went mass marines 2 tanks and a bunch of vikings.
It was pretty tough at the beginning when we didn't have colossi yet but good forcefields + zealots + noob terrans who don't micro = dead marines.


----------



## DoomDash

I suck @ SCII. Some how I got worse or something.


----------



## DoomDash

BTW Check out my recent luck:

I say 1 sec, and pause the game. I alt tab to turn off my virus scanner which goes on automatically at that time, and when I get back he unpaused it, all my units are dead and I lose the game.


----------



## thiru

Watch Destiny's stream.

Learn to BM like a pro.

Profit.


----------



## DoomDash

Why can I like your posts...

man facebook changing the word.


----------



## thiru

ikr


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12310401*
> I suck @ SCII. Some how I got worse or something.


lol, does that mean I can win you now?????








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12310577*
> BTW Check out my recent luck:
> 
> I say 1 sec, and pause the game. I alt tab to turn off my virus scanner which goes on automatically at that time, and when I get back he unpaused it, all my units are dead and I lose the game.


They will do that, which is why I would never pause the game. i'll much rather the virus scanner go on automatically and focus on finishing the game than dealing with it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12310788*
> Why can I like your posts...
> 
> man facebook changing the word.


I think they should've put the like button near the quotes, etc... button because it just sticks out too much atm :/


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The same kind that uses marines to counter banelings.


Are you calling MarineKingPrime (Foxer) a noob?


----------



## BigFan

Funny to scroll down and see posts are liked XD


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EafGvHlUgUk[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

I played SlayerSCella in a 2v2 and beat him pretty good....

This is his account ( check my match history ).
http://sc2ranks.com/us/1957884/SlayerSCella



But he was off racing and playing with his GF, so I doubt he was trying of course.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12318918*
> I played SlayerSCella in a 2v2 and beat him pretty good....
> 
> This is his account ( check my match history ).
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/1957884/SlayerSCella
> 
> 
> 
> But he was off racing and playing with his GF, so I doubt he was trying of course.


How much for that e-autograph?









Blinker, dunno if you've tried this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191430


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I'm getting down on mutas again. Been playing diamonds and these guys almost always counter mutas easily. Mutas are such a horrible fighting unit for the money. It's galling to have such an expensive unit continually be obliged to retreat from marines, which are so cheap as to be disposable. One thing I keep seeing from both Terrans and Protoss in mid-game is they launch a big attack immediately when they see mutas, apparently because they know I've weakened my army by blowing big cash on a unit with such poor fighting qualities. I almost hate to reveal the mutas in the mid-game anymore because it invites attack.


----------



## DoomDash

Speaking of Cella he switched to Justintv

http://www.justin.tv/slayerscella#/w/846896064


----------



## thiru

Justin = cash once you get in their partnership program. Steven/Destiny got $1200 in January and that was before he quit his job.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How much for that e-autograph?









Blinker, dunno if you've tried this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=191430


Not yet, but I've seen the thread. Kcdc is a hero. I hope this gets popular and changes PvP metagame so it will actually be possible to play macro and have some variety.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


I'm getting down on mutas again. Been playing diamonds and these guys almost always counter mutas easily. Mutas are such a horrible fighting unit for the money. It's galling to have such an expensive unit continually be obliged to retreat from marines, which are so cheap as to be disposable. One thing I keep seeing from both Terrans and Protoss in mid-game is they launch a big attack immediately when they see mutas, apparently because they know I've weakened my army by blowing big cash on a unit with such poor fighting qualities. I almost hate to reveal the mutas in the mid-game anymore because it invites attack.


Mutas are pretty bad in ZvP and very situational. If you want to open mutas against protoss you have to be sure he didn't open stargate and probably need a ton of spine crawlers at natural.

As far as I know they're good in ZvT, but require APM to be effective.


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure if you guys caught that last cella game but wow it was crazy.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12320041*
> Justin = cash once you get in their partnership program. Steven/Destiny got $1200 in January and that was before he quit his job.


Destiny has a LOT of viewers though. Most views from any streamer on TL that is on JTV.

Getting in the partnership program would be nice, but you need a lot of viewers for it :/ If I could get in, I'd probably start throwing down some pay KOTH Tournaments. I feel like I'll get a lot more viewers though once my bonus pool is depleted and I get higher ranked. People are very superficial and care a lot about your points/rank/league.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How much for that e-autograph?









Blinker, dunno if you've tried this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=191430


Sounds like a normal 2 gate robo with getting robo after first gate. Although, having no sentries does make it an interesting build









Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Destiny has a LOT of viewers though. Most views from any streamer on TL that is on JTV.

Getting in the partnership program would be nice, but you need a lot of viewers for it :/ If I could get in, I'd probably start throwing down some pay KOTH Tournaments. I feel like I'll get a lot more viewers though once my bonus pool is depleted and I get higher ranked. *People are very superficial and care a lot about your points/rank/league*.


Pretty much, the amount of league waving at the battle.net forums is pretty high, although, there are some cases where its justified


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Sounds like a normal 2 gate robo with getting robo after first gate. Although, having no sentries does make it an interesting build










2gate robo doesn't survive 4gate. (unless you're WhiteRa)
This build does. Pretty big difference.


----------



## DoomDash

Master league makes me a better person : Fact.


----------



## thiru

Holy mother of god

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/iamxeph

oGsMC stream


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12320988*
> 2gate robo doesn't survive 4gate. (unless you're WhiteRa)
> This build does. Pretty big difference.


hmm, well, I can see how getting that robo tech after the 2nd gate will delay the immortal which will make surviving the first wave pretty hard if not impossible especially if you go for zealots to save up the gas for the immortal. Did I miss anything else?








Nice find








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12320993*
> Master league makes me a better person : Fact.


lol, being in master or bronze means nothing in terms of the kind of person you are. It just gives you better bragging rights


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Holy mother of god

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/iamxeph

oGsMC stream











I like the "DO NOT RECORD" Text which is just going to get people to record it on purpose, lol.

Byun vs OgsMC now!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, being in master or bronze means nothing in terms of the kind of person you are. It just gives you better bragging rights










One who is not enlightened does not know about enlightenment.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


One who is not enlightened does not know about enlightenment.


Have it your way XD

MC just cheesed a teammate and almost lost XD


----------



## yks

I don't think I'm good enough to get Masters.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't think I'm good enough to get Masters.


Practice makes perfect!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't think I'm good enough to get Masters.


Nonsense!


----------



## rhed5

My mic arrived! I can use vent now and I will offer tutoring for anyone who wants or needs them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


My mic arrived! I can use vent now and I will offer tutoring for anyone who wants or needs them.


Looks like yks needs it!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't think I'm good enough to get Masters.


How so? Something you're lacking in?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


My mic arrived! I can use vent now and I will offer tutoring for anyone who wants or needs them.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Looks like yks needs it!










lol, nah, he just needs to stop his self doubt and get into masters already!


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Who would want to get a 4v4 group going sometime?

Like now that SC2 has a chat channel thing like WC3 did we can create channel where OCN'ers can meet up.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing*


Who would want to get a 4v4 group going sometime?

Like now that SC2 has a chat channel thing like WC3 did we can create channel where OCN'ers can meet up.


You mean like a chat channel called "overclock.net" ?


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


You mean like a chat channel called "overclock.net" ?


Works for me. Did they already make one :/ hahahah


----------



## Katana

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EafGvHlUgUk


Wow, that was pretty impressive to watch. I actually laughed when I saw his command center flying around, burning down at 50 hp, then suddenly...MULES!!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't think I'm good enough to get Masters.


I'm not good enough to be in diamond.


----------



## l337sft

I can not stand getting cannon rushed, i always hold it off. But then i go to leave my base and this guys got all his upgrades and cannons all over the place, i tried getting collusus with range but his immortals just raped me. God it makes me so angry.


----------



## Katana

Cannons are definitely pretty powerful, but they have two weaknesses. One, they have a maximum range. Two, they are immobile.

The basic idea is that a Protoss cannot blanket the ENTIRE map in cannons, and even when they make decent coverage, that costs them a LOT of resources. They have to expand, and can't possibly cover all directions at every base. Find their expo, destroy it with just a few guys (flying and fast units, preferably). If they send something out at you, run away and destroy something elsewhere. Having gone so deep in minerals, they need to expand but CAN'T with you harassing them with your mobile army, and can't counterattack because they're so far down. Specifically, I'm thinking of Mutalisks, which I'm pretty sure are the fastest air unit in the game.

If you're being cannon-rushed, one main issue may be scouting. The plan is to have a basic idea of your opponent's strategy very quickly into the game, just by sending a worker and wandering around to see what buildings he has. An off-ramp siege would take some time to set up, but if you spend enough time wandering around outside and/or reach a Xelnaga tower, you could nip it in the bud before it's too late.

Also, certain units can attack cannons with no risk of damage: Siege tanks and Brood Lords. If you like wasting resources, Ghosts with nukes. (Possibly some others, but I dunno)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12324084*
> I'm not good enough to be in diamond.


I'm too good for my silver









Edit: Funny TvsT I had: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/137326-1v1-terran-metalopolis
He had the better macro, since, he was continually making SCVs but I had the drop among other things


----------



## DoomDash

Anybody watching day9 while vile something today?

TvT Blueflame Hellion double port. Pretty interesting.


----------



## DoomDash

idra + artosis highly criticized / talked about show has its second episode out:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvc9_PXh0Pk&feature=feedu[/ame]


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;12324416*
> I can not stand getting cannon rushed, i always hold it off. But then i go to leave my base and this guys got all his upgrades and cannons all over the place, i tried getting collusus with range but his immortals just raped me. God it makes me so angry.


When I get cannon rushed, I just proxy gate.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12322250*
> Practice makes perfect!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12322479*
> Nonsense!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12322695*
> lol, nah, he just needs to stop his self doubt and get into masters already!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12324084*
> I'm not good enough to be in diamond.


I had my chance this morning and I blew it. 4 or 5 Masters in a row, I beat the first one and lost to the other 3 or 4 after. And then, I started losing and losing and losing, and eventually lost to a Gold person, granted, he was probably a smurf, but still.

Went -5 or -6 this morning. ughhhhh


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12329108*
> I had my chance this morning and I blew it. 4 or 5 Masters in a row, I beat the first one and lost to the other 3 or 4 after. And then, I started losing and losing and losing, and eventually lost to a Gold person, granted, he was probably a smurf, but still.
> 
> Went -5 or -6 this morning. ughhhhh


That's ok, you're right there, just keep playing!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12329108*
> I had my chance this morning and I blew it. 4 or 5 Masters in a row, I beat the first one and lost to the other 3 or 4 after. And then, I started losing and losing and losing, and eventually lost to a Gold person, granted, he was probably a smurf, but still.
> 
> Went -5 or -6 this morning. ughhhhh


That means you were close. Wouldn't worry too much brah.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12329108*
> I had my chance this morning and I blew it. 4 or 5 Masters in a row, I beat the first one and lost to the other 3 or 4 after. And then, I started losing and losing and losing, and eventually lost to a Gold person, granted, he was probably a smurf, but still.
> 
> Went -5 or -6 this morning. ughhhhh


Good thing I don't think like you do, because, I've been in similar situations. I'll get some players from gold+ then go on a losing streak after that followed by a winning streak, rinse and repeat XD
Either way, you were close. STOP thinking you can't make it and work towards it. You're putting in the time unlike me so you WILL make it!


----------



## teajayyy

cannon rush is getting so much more common :/ it really steams my beans


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teajayyy;12329246*
> cannon rush is getting so much more common :/ it really steams my beans


I dunno, I don't get it much in my games, every once in a while someone will try it. All you have to do is hold it of while building gateways, etc.... and making an army and the game is yours


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191782

More Terran nerfs to look forward to.


----------



## thiru

Marine nerf incoming.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12329395*
> Marine nerf incoming.


They better give me something else.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12329466*
> They better give me something else.


Don't worry, they've got this neat idea on how terran mech will require building roads to move at normal speed


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12329513*
> Don't worry, they've got this neat idea on how terran mech will require building roads to move at normal speed


Road spread. Road Tumors.


----------



## thiru

New newbie tuesday looks really good.
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4742049/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12329332*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191782
> 
> More Terran nerfs to look forward to.


hmm, wonder what unit or ability will be nerfed. Have a feeling that stim will be nerfed, but, personally, more concerned with protoss tier 3. Colossi and hts are just amazing late game especially if you allow the P player to get 3-4 of them(u should avoid of course)


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Buff zerg first. A good start would be bigger maps and making zerg tier3 stronger. Let ultralisk move like colossus. Make broodlords a little faster so they're not so helpless against blink stalkers. I'd also like the overlords to be a bit faster before speed upgrade. It's pretty easy to hide tech from a sloverlord. Only terran nerf I want immediately is having tech labs more expensive and longer to produce. I hate scouting the terran base and seeing factories, rax, and starports with tech labs and still having no clue how to prepare because the hellion and tank come from the same building, as does marine/marauder, as does medivac/banshee. Tech lab is so cheap and fast that Terrans are building it as a decoy. That's not fair. They slap a tech lab on starport, and then no banshees appear. Zerg tech structures are expensive. You can build one as a decoy to fool enemy scouts, but you pay a fair price for doing that.


----------



## thiru

I want to add all those really newbie videos to the OP.

So far I have (put it in a quote so that embedded videos don't clutter):

Quote:



Day9 Daily #132: Back to the basics
Day9's Newbie Tuesday: Protoss and Terran basics  
Day's Newbie Tuesday: Zerg basics 
Day's Newbie Tuesday: Refining basics
Day's Newbie Tuesday: surviving early pressure


I like how when you search bliptv the second result is day9's blip page








Anyone got other really basic videos? things we don't think about when someone asks questions here because we take them for granted (such as hotkey-ing or shift-queueing or pressing the spacebar).

Also:


----------



## Rpg2

Oh Artosis, he's always messing with Idra.


----------



## thiru

Cella on Steven's skype. lmao


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Do any of you zergs use mass hydra against Terran? I've been so fed up with lameass mutas in TvZ that I decided to use hydra for early/mid antiair and I actually beat 2 diamond terrans today with mass hydra. Hydra is surprisingly good against MMM with some ling/bling/roach support. And they're so much cheaper than those stinkin mutas. I have a lot more gas to spend on other stuff, like infestors and armor upgrades. I'm not getting the spire until late, when I have enough money to make a BIG flock of mutas.


----------



## yks

Startale vs Incredible Miracle

IT IS this DEFINITION of epic.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Do any of you zergs use mass hydra against Terran? I've been so fed up with lameass mutas in TvZ that I decided to use hydra for early/mid antiair and I actually beat 2 diamond terrans today with mass hydra. Hydra is surprisingly good against MMM with some ling/bling/roach support. And they're so much cheaper than those stinkin mutas. I have a lot more gas to spend on other stuff, like infestors and armor upgrades. I'm not getting the spire until late, when I have enough money to make a BIG flock of mutas.


Usually I prefer roaches vs. marine heavy terrans, and hydras vs. mauraders. The problem with getting hydras is how gas heavy they are. This reduces your ability to get Mutas and/or Infestors which are *SO* good vs. Terran.

My favorite combo vs. a evenly mixed terran is roach + ling/banes + infestor + muta.


----------



## DoomDash

even better:


----------



## yks

52 games of ladder in *ONE* day.

Here are the results: went -6 in the morning, broke even @ night

66% PVP (18-9)
43% PVZ (7-9)
12% PVT (1-7-1)
Total: 26-25-1 (50%)

What's U in sc2gears? when it displays W-L-U


----------



## thiru

Undecided? Either you had a stalemate (but you would have remembered that right?) or at the time the game was saved SC2 didn't know whether you had won or not for some reason... it's not something that's supposed to happen in 1v1...

http://topreplays.com/Replays/Detail...irhage_ZeaZomb

Here's a pretty ridiculous 3v3 game where I get 6 pooled, our push utterly fails (well we did kill a lair). One of us loses his whole base, I lose all my gates, the last one somehow has creep spread all over his base (he's terran), our combined supply is 200 to their 300, they have total map control.

So at this point I think we lost the game and I start making carriers and a mothership for the lolz... cept that we somehow won with carrrier+mothership+thors xD 
Again, we're all terrible players but this was so fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Guess he didn't scan every inch of the map.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Guess he didn't scan every inch of the map.


Or built a Raven.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*










Guess he didn't scan every inch of the map.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Or built a Raven.


tell me about it XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Buff zerg first. A good start would be bigger maps and making zerg tier3 stronger. Let ultralisk move like colossus. Make broodlords a little faster so they're not so helpless against blink stalkers. I'd also like the overlords to be a bit faster before speed upgrade. It's pretty easy to hide tech from a sloverlord. Only terran nerf I want immediately is having tech labs more expensive and longer to produce. I hate scouting the terran base and seeing factories, rax, and starports with tech labs and still having no clue how to prepare because the hellion and tank come from the same building, as does marine/marauder, as does medivac/banshee. Tech lab is so cheap and fast that Terrans are building it as a decoy. That's not fair. They slap a tech lab on starport, and then no banshees appear. Zerg tech structures are expensive. You can build one as a decoy to fool enemy scouts, but you pay a fair price for doing that.


hmm, I think they should increase Z's option of scouting because atm, I find I'm unable to scout before getting lair tech, OLs are too slow and if your opponent is watching the map as well as building, etc.... he'll notice the OL and take it out before you get any intel. I don't know about the tech lab price increase though. I do agree with the ultra thing though, after all they are supposed to be huge and as for BL, maybe a slight increase in speed, but, nothing crazy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Or built a Raven.


Maybe that's because Raven tech isn't easy to rush to, means 2 less siege tanks. Still, banelings are dumb, and that guy didn't deserve to kill all that IMO. Lurkers are an entirely different story though.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


tell me about it XD

hmm, I think they should increase Z's option of scouting because atm, I find I'm unable to scout before getting lair tech,


Yeah, I QQ about not being able to counter the gamut of possible early attacks and people always say "sac an overlord." How hard is it to hide tech from an sloverlord before speed upgrade? Seems laughably easy to me. Put tech in back, have two or three anti-air units patrol the perimeter. It's not brain surgery. On a lot of maps you can even tell beforehand where the overlord will be coming from. If overlord were just a little bit faster initially it would be harder to hide stuff from it. As it is now, it's easy.


----------



## thiru

Updated the OP, tell me if you guys have anything to add, especially newbie videos/guides.


----------



## Nevaziah

man, i was just watching Daily number 251 and man, Day9 has such a great poker face. Skip the daily to 0h:40min:00 and listen to him comment. Its absolutely hilarious and a new player can really get screwed over if they start listening at the wrong time...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


man, i was just watching Daily number 251 and man, Day9 has such a great poker face. Skip the daily to 0h:40min:00 and listen to him comment. Its absolutely hilarious and a new player can really get screwed over if they start listening at the wrong time...


lol that looks like a really fun episode.

Btw I have been dealt the ultimate BM in a team game: the enemy player left when it was clear we were losing. Didn't even bother to see it to the end!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Been liking the hydra build in TvZ. I just beat a 2400 diamond with it, 3rd diamond in the past 24 hours. I just don't build the spire until I get the 3rd base and enough money to buy a whole lot of mutas all at once. Till then I just get by with hydra and queen for anti-air. Hydra is also pretty good against marauder. I've concluded that mutas suck unless you have a whole bunch of them, so I don't bother with the spire until late.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Been liking the hydra build in TvZ. I just beat a 2400 diamond with it, 3rd diamond in the past 24 hours. I just don't build the spire until I get the 3rd base and enough money to buy a whole lot of mutas all at once. Till then I just get by with hydra and queen for anti-air. Hydra is also pretty good against marauder. I've concluded that mutas suck unless you have a whole bunch of them, so I don't bother with the spire until late.


Someone built hydras vs me..... once.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Been liking the hydra build in TvZ. I just beat a 2400 diamond with it, 3rd diamond in the past 24 hours. I just don't build the spire until I get the 3rd base and enough money to buy a whole lot of mutas all at once. Till then I just get by with hydra and queen for anti-air. Hydra is also pretty good against marauder. I've concluded that mutas suck unless you have a whole bunch of them, so I don't bother with the spire until late.


Hydras are not horrible by any means, they just can't be compared to SC1 hydras


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Someone built hydras vs me..... once.


I haven't seen much hydra in TvZ. Even high-level terrans look like they don't know what will happen in a fight with hydras. They run a scan, then charge with their whole army and get mowed down. I get the impression they haven't seen that particular unit composition.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


52 games of ladder in *ONE* day.

Here are the results: went -6 in the morning, broke even @ night

66% PVP (18-9)
43% PVZ (7-9)
12% PVT (1-7-1)
Total: 26-25-1 (50%)

What's U in sc2gears? when it displays W-L-U


Holy ****, and I thought that I played a lot. Downloading SC2gears though. Looks like a really useful piece of analyzes software, similar to poker software.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;12336066*
> Holy ****, and I thought that I played a lot. Downloading SC2gears though. Looks like a really useful piece of analyzes software, similar to poker software.


I had the same thoughts, you with 1500 games i thought was amazing but 52 ladder games in 1 day. my hat's off to you!
I personally tire out after 5-6 ladder matches a day, custom games, maybe i can do like 10 a day AT MOST - after that my brain is just too fried to do anything.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12336124*
> I sometimes get Roaches and Hydras, and it's fairly effective. I think that people don't realise that marines have less range and less health, and are deceived by numbers. Coupling them with roaches allows them to soak up a few more hits.


Last I checked 2 marines had more health than 1 hydra. They're cheaper too, no gas. And better DPS when stimmed.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## DoomDash

Does Psy always troll like this? I just started subbing:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INx-6W97lmw&feature=feedu[/ame]

I average 6 games a day since I got into masters....


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12336248*
> Last I checked 2 marines had more health than 1 hydra. They're cheaper too, no gas. And better DPS when stimmed.


To make hydra work you need some banelings to reduce the marine population and some roaches to soak up damage. Maybe the best thing about hydra is they quickly make the medivacs disappear. No more healing.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12336395*
> To make hydra work you need some banelings to reduce the marine population and some roaches to soak up damage. Maybe the best thing about hydra is they quickly make the medivacs disappear. No more healing.


The only way to make hydras work is to make sure they have no seige tanks.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12336395*
> To make hydra work you need some banelings to reduce the marine population and some roaches to soak up damage. Maybe the best thing about hydra is they quickly make the medivacs disappear. No more healing.


Marines often come with tanks.

Tanks rape everything Z has on the ground up to ultras.


----------



## DoomDash

OK 9:50 in that Psy video is making me ROFL. BigFan that comment is for you lol.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12336446*
> Marines often come with tanks.
> 
> Tanks rape everything Z has on the ground up to ultras.


Banelings, roach, infestor.

But hydras still suck... and Hellions are good vs hydra.

*BIGFAN YOU HAVE TO WATCH THAT GAME*


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12336216*
> I had the same thoughts, you with 1500 games i thought was amazing but 52 ladder games in 1 day. my hat's off to you!
> I personally tire out after 5-6 ladder matches a day, custom games, maybe i can do like 10 a day AT MOST - after that my brain is just too fried to do anything.


Yah I know what you mean... Most I did was 27 1v1 ladder games in a day and I felt so mentally drained after that :O


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12336458*
> OK 9:50 in that Psy video is making me ROFL. BigFan that comment is for you lol.
> 
> Banelings, roach, infestor.
> 
> But hydras still suck... and Hellions are good vs hydra.


I've seen that work surprisingly well.
But yeah hydras suck in TvZ unless the terran still goes herp derp MMM.


----------



## DoomDash

God this video is so funny. They are now making fun of the Zergs on teamliquid who say ravens are good vs Zerg hah.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12336526*
> God this video is so funny. They are now making fun of the Zergs on teamliquid who say ravens are good vs Zerg hah.


Hahahah I just finished watching it, that was pretty funny







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12336767*
> I just got probe rushed by some crazy person... I don't understand their thought pattern.
> 
> "Hey I'm gonna play a game of SC2"
> *Game loads up*
> "Aww I don't feel like playing any more"
> *Worker rush*


Did you win?


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## thiru

"Hey I'm gonna watch a replay of SC2"
*Game loads up*
*Worker rush*
"Aww I don't feel like playing any more"


----------



## thiru




----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*












OMG this gif is WIN.

ANYWAY, i got some pretty good replays of me staying in first place.







And this one is a loss, tried to defend against it but its hard. REAPER harrassment....can i get some tips?



Have more on my GRO Replay Site (see sig). Need tips on Reaper Harrass though.

Thanks guys, still number 1 in my division.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## Gigalisk

Me and NoFeap and Morpheus have been swapping the top spot for a minute, but i might be holding it this time.

Thanks OCN! This thread rox.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I had the same thoughts, you with 1500 games i thought was amazing but 52 ladder games in 1 day. my hat's off to you!
I personally tire out after 5-6 ladder matches a day, custom games, maybe i can do like 10 a day AT MOST - after that my brain is just too fried to do anything.


Tell me about it, when I ladder, I hit mostly 5 or so on a good night, never 51. Take it easy yks!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK 9:50 in that Psy video is making me ROFL. BigFan that comment is for you lol.

Banelings, roach, infestor.

But hydras still suck... and Hellions are good vs hydra.

*BIGFAN YOU HAVE TO WATCH THAT GAME*


Watching atm, looks interesting. I think I'm going to start adding in BCs and carriers into my games since I never tech to them and they could be useful.
rofl @ his comments about needing only 20 mutas for turrets, how they aren't made, ravens being super strong, getting only one add-on before 9 min mark, etc.... XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Me and NoFeap and Morpheus have been swapping the top spot for a minute, but i might be holding it this time.

Thanks OCN! This thread rox.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


Time to turn that Bronze into Silver, and that less than 50% w/l ratio to 50%+!


----------



## BigFan

Someone get on, interested in a fun game









Edit: Thought you guys might like this, a PvsP on meta. Quite interesting to say the least XD
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ss-metalopolis


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I had the same thoughts, you with 1500 games i thought was amazing but 52 ladder games in 1 day. my hat's off to you!
I personally tire out after 5-6 ladder matches a day, custom games, maybe i can do like 10 a day AT MOST - after that my brain is just too fried to do anything.


It was a rare occurrence. I totally went zombie mode. Got frustrated after a 40min PVT and every Terran afterwards i just tried the stupidest builds

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*












ROFL. Props!


----------



## yks

haha, i played this guy in the newegg tourney. some 2400D terran. its his smurf account so i thought, "man, this guy is gonna suck with anything but terran" and lo' and behold. the warp prism harrass


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


[imzg]http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-188208.jpg[/img]

haha, i played this guy in the newegg tourney. some 2400D terran. its his smurf account so i thought, "man, this guy is gonna suck with anything but terran" and lo' and behold. the warp prism harrass


Mmmh gonna take a look at how that goes. I assume you 4gated, he held it off and sent a warp prism?

Also:










and


----------



## yks

lol @ the last one


----------



## thiru

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *yks*   lol @ the last one  
Made me laugh iNcontrollably

edit: even better version:

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

Cella and Destiny are starting to hang out on Skype together!?

their 2v2 was lawllll, is it my birthday?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

[sarcasm] Balance suggestion for next patch: Corruptometer. Appears in a small window above minimap. Tells you how many corruptors you need to fight your protoss opponent. No more stupid guesswork. No more making too many corruptors and getting murdered, or making too few and getting murdered. Just look at the corruptometer and you'll know what to do.

[/sarcasm]


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Cella and Destiny are starting to hang out on Skype together!?

their 2v2 was lawllll, is it my birthday?


I think ZT is a much stronger 2v2 comp than ZZ :/


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I think ZT is a much stronger 2v2 comp than ZZ :/


Simply no question. ZZ is so bad. Don't know what I was thinking! Next tourney, we're going ZT


----------



## vdek

Haha, one of my games got cast in Chinese, interesting to hear :O

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191702

Pretty interesting read on macro / maps. Big maps look like they will favor Protoss more than anyone, and Terran the least.

Read!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12346162*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191702
> 
> Pretty interesting read on macro / maps. Big maps look like they will favor Protoss more than anyone, and Terran the least.
> 
> Read!


Haven't read article yet, but, I'm pretty confident that Blizzard said that no macro maps(big maps) favor Z because then Z will be OP, however, I think that was during the beta









Edit: Interesting article, but, these lines caught my eyes:
Protoss, BW, with 54 workers equally distributed on 6 bases: 18120 minerals over 5 minutes.
Terran, BW, with 54 workers confined to 3 bases: 13200 minerals over 5 minutes.

Zerg, SC2, with 54 workers equally distributed on 4, 5 or 6 bases: ~15384 minerals over 5 minutes.
Protoss, SC2, with 54 workers confined to 3 bases: 14586 minerals over 5 minutes.

Seems there are benefits to expanding in BW as seen between the P and T example, but, in SC2, the difference is minimal other than getting more hatcheries for larvae for the Z :/


----------



## vdek

He only did an analysis on minerals. Typically as zerg you are more gas starved than mineral starved so you need the extra hatcheries for increased gas production.


----------



## DoomDash

Aren't we all gas starved







.


----------



## yks

This burrito gave me too much gas.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12347447*
> Aren't we all gas starved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12347354*
> He only did an analysis on minerals. Typically as zerg you are more gas starved than mineral starved so you need the extra hatcheries for increased gas production.


true, either way, its interesting to note the difference.
Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316&currentpage=2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12347539*
> true, either way, its interesting to note the difference.
> Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316&currentpage=2


Interesting. Where did you go? Wanna play those maps SC2BW maps?

I'm in the SC2BW channel too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12347951*
> Interesting. Where did you go? Wanna play those maps SC2BW maps?
> 
> I'm in the SC2BW channel too.


Joined the channel. Wanted to try those PTR maps that cram mentioned a while back or maybe even that BW mod that TL thread was talking about


----------



## VFXcompositor

Anyone know when we'll get to play some of those sick new maps i've been seein in the new GSL sets? like that CrossFireSE maps looks sweet, and so does TalDarim Alter. that could be the new lost temple w/o the terran imbas fo sho


----------



## DoomDash

Well I've already tried all the PTR maps, but I can do that again too. I wanted to play the SC2BW though.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VFXcompositor;12348353*
> Anyone know when we'll get to play some of those sick new maps i've been seein in the new GSL sets? like that CrossFireSE maps looks sweet, and so does TalDarim Alter. that could be the new lost temple w/o the terran imbas fo sho


They aren't official so you might never see them on the ladder.
You can find them in custom games if you search though.


----------



## Gigalisk

Or i'm pretty sure that you'll see them if you look hard enough in Google. People post them up for single download all the time.

Ya know, i wish blizzard would FTP some of those maps like they do with the Updates.


----------



## yks

Can't wait for Assembly's bracket stage tomorrow.


----------



## yks

Cash Prize Earned:


----------



## Mwarren

Damn. It must be nice to make a decent living off of SC2.


----------



## poroboszcz

So I was browsing through battle.net forums today out of boredom and found this:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1701611708

No idea who the guy is, but it kinda made me lol. Surprisingly he's doing quite well so far. I know some of you are familiar with WoW so maybe you will be able to put some more light on it. I also wonder what kind of exploit did he use in WoW, that's mentioned in the thread, unless it's so secret no one can speak about it even on this forums.


----------



## yks

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*   So I was browsing through battle.net forums today out of boredom and found this:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1701611708

No idea who the guy is, but it kinda made me lol. Surprisingly he's doing quite well so far. I know some of you are familiar with WoW so maybe you will be able to put some more light on it. I also wonder what kind of exploit did he use in WoW, that's mentioned in the thread, unless it's so secret no one can speak about it even on this forums.







  
hahahahaha, no freaking way that it's him playing.

athene, creator of the famous quote, "you're pro or you're noob. that's life"

  
 You Tube  



 
 i forgot the name to the real video video but it was like 30mins long.

anyways, the exploit he did wasn't really an exploit, he just had 50 people or so people help him.

he was the first 80 and 85 character in the world for both WOTLK and Cata cause he had like a cajillion people kill stuff for him that he tagged.


----------



## yks

rep for the find btw, thanks


----------



## thiru

http://www.pcworld.com/article/21935...ing_mouse.html

day9


----------



## BigFan

Thanks for the game jedi, was a lot of fun







Maybe PvsZ next time? Wouldn't be as easy as TvsZ, that's for sure


----------



## DoomDash

moonglade vs huk on HD's channel are pretty exciting.


----------



## yks

You know what I hate? When you watch a replay and then THAT replay gets casted.

Cause watching the casted game is like major spoiler for every move


----------



## yks

GSL March Code A:

21 Feb
1. IMLosirA vs SlayerS_LegalMind
2. ST_August vs WE.LonerPrime
3. ST_Curious vs LiquidHuk
4. ST_Posh vs ZeNEX_ButterflyEffect

23 Feb
1. ST_Virus vs FOXMoon
2. GanZi vs LiquidHayprO
3. ZeNEX_Coca vs ST_Ace
4. SlayerS_YuGiOh vs LeenockfOu

25 Feb
1. TSL_Rain vs Yeah
2. mOOnGLaDe vs ZeNEX_Destination
3. IMJunwi vs SlayerS_Alicia
4. MvP_Dog vs MakaPrime.WE

28 Feb
1. oGsSuperNova vs ST_Squirtle
2. TSL_Alive vs oGsCezanne
3. SlayerS_CchapSeungEu vs LiquidRet
4. TSL_Killer vs oGsjookTo


----------



## DoomDash

No Terrans in the top 4 of Assembly ftl.


----------



## poroboszcz

Don't know about NA, but it seems that mech play is getting really popular in higher level TvP at the moment on EU. Especially all kinds of hellion openings, which can be quite devastating if protoss is not prepared.


----------



## thiru

Terran needs a buff.
Stimmed SCVs for better all-ins.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Don't know about NA, but it seems that mech play is getting really popular in higher level TvP at the moment on EU. Especially all kinds of hellion openings, which can be quite devastating if protoss is not prepared.


I'm still trying mech, but I can't say I'm too impressed yet.


----------



## yks

Go back about 500 pages, I've been preaching Mech in TvP for ages. Even Doom is still trying mech.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm still trying mech, but I can't say I'm too impressed yet.


From my perspective it's quite good mainly because, unlike bio, it requires very specific unit composition from protoss to deal with. MMM is just super easy to counter.

There's a number of hellion openings that are rather hard to deal with, like blue hellion drop which can end the game immediately if not scouted in time.

I keep seeing more tanks, thors and banshees in late game as well.

Here are two games I played today against quite good terrans. I lost both stupidly, but they kinda show the potential of mech play.


----------



## DoomDash

I will watch. I will def try to include mech in my late game play at the very least. I don't think bio is easy to counter though... and a lot of the hellion drop is like you said dependent on the surprise of it. I really really don't like builds that are based on surprises, because to me that's not a good build. I think if I can get bio to work early where its stronger than Protoss, but transition into mech later, that would be ideal.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


There's a number of hellion openings that are rather hard to deal with, like blue hellion drop which can end the game immediately if not scouted in time.


Early hellion drop is super popular in TvZ right now. Do hellions fry probes as efficiently as they do drones?

Edit: Just watched some of the replays. This is the type of stuff I've been QQing about in TvZ. Seems like every terran in the world just figured out that hellion balls are cheap enough to send on suicide runs to kill workers. It's worst against zerg because zerg really doesn't recover well at all when a bunch of drones are killed early.


----------



## Idra

Looking for someone to play against.

List your bnet ID and name and I'll contact you!


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Early hellion drop is super popular in TvZ right now. Do hellions fry probes as efficiently as they do drones?


yes...

@idra: region/race/league?


----------



## Gigalisk

Holy crap...*THE* Idra?

Sorry i'm in bronze, but i would love to try my skills against you, and maybe pick your brain about some things.

Please add me; check my sig for my bnet credentials. I'm Deployed to a Sandy location, so im roughly on the same time schedule as the east coast -4.5 hours because i work nights.

Would love to hear from you...thanks for stopping by!

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gigalisk*


holy crap...*the* idra?

Sorry i'm in bronze, but i would love to try my skills against you, and maybe pick your brain about some things.

Please add me; check my sig for my bnet credentials. I'm deployed to a sandy location, so im roughly on the same time schedule as the east coast -4.5 hours because i work nights.

Would love to hear from you...thanks for stopping by!

Gigalisk
(forward deployed)


....

.......


----------



## GYBE

Hey guys, we should get a list of SC2 IDs for people to play.

Add me please. Would like some people to play any game with







I'm on NA

jSN.152

We should get an OCN KotH going


----------



## thiru

There's a list a of OCNers' IDs (there's a link in the OP) but the best way to get to play with people would probably to go on the Overclock.net channel in-game. Just ask around.

And if you see 8+ people just take things in your own hands and get that KOTH going


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I will watch. I will def try to include mech in my late game play at the very least. I don't think bio is easy to counter though... and a lot of the hellion drop is like you said dependent on the surprise of it. I really really don't like builds that are based on surprises, because to me that's not a good build. I think if I can get bio to work early where its stronger than Protoss, but transition into mech later, that would be ideal.


Yea, it's probably not something you could do 3 times in a row playing bo5 against someone, but it can be pretty strong under some circumstances. By bio being easy to counter I mean that it just dies on its own to any good combination of Colossus/Phoenix/HT/Carrier/Charge/Forcefields.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Holy crap...*THE* Idra?

Sorry i'm in bronze, but i would love to try my skills against you, and maybe pick your brain about some things.

Please add me; check my sig for my bnet credentials. I'm Deployed to a Sandy location, so im roughly on the same time schedule as the east coast -4.5 hours because i work nights.

Would love to hear from you...thanks for stopping by!

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


So you're a Terran unit in real life? Shame.


----------



## poroboszcz

Hi Grack.


----------



## Idra

All I see are idlers in the overclock.net channel.

Edit: Only played with one person. This channel is empty. -_-


----------



## Gigalisk

I'll be online in about 1 hour (depending on the weather) ARSECRACK-istan has been snowing for 2 days straight now, so if i get online, i gotta run a test to see if starcraft will behave for a game or 2.

@Thiru "...." what man? I at least wanna try.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm still trying mech, but I can't say I'm too impressed yet.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


I'll be online in about 1 hour (depending on the weather) ARSECRACK-istan has been snowing for 2 days straight now, so if i get online, i gotta run a test to see if starcraft will behave for a game or 2.

@Thiru "...." what man? I at least wanna try.


I believe it's in reference to "*THE* Idra". It's really unlikely that Idra would stop by this thread XD


----------



## QuadDamage

Add me in the Chat


----------



## Gigalisk

Hey i have no way of knowing, nor do i have the bandwidth to follow GOMTV.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Hey i have no way of knowing, nor do i have the bandwidth to follow GOMTV.


That's not my point, I was merely pointing out that Idra is unlikely to make an account on OCN and then join our conversation


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


All I see are idlers in the overclock.net channel.

Edit: Only played with one person. This channel is empty. -_-


----------



## angrysasquatch

Any ideas on dealing with 2v2 against 2 zergs who go ling/banneling? I was P, my teammate T. I forced my build to make buildings quickly, to keep what I assumed would be a bunch of lings trying to run to my mineral line, but it seems if I do that, I can never join forces with my teammate, and the bannelings did quick work on the buildings. I've been losing quite a bit to this, and I know my mechanics aren't great but I can't see how to beat this, even with perfect execution.

Replay:
http://www.filedropper.com/lingbaneling2v2


----------



## QuadDamage

I showed my nubs skills


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch;12365941*
> Any ideas on dealing with 2v2 against 2 zergs who go ling/banneling? I was P, my teammate T. I forced my build to make buildings quickly, to keep what I assumed would be a bunch of lings trying to run to my mineral line, but it seems if I do that, I can never join forces with my teammate, and the bannelings did quick work on the buildings. I've been losing quite a bit to this, and I know my mechanics aren't great but I can't see how to beat this, even with perfect execution.
> 
> Replay:
> http://www.filedropper.com/lingbaneling2v2


Get banshees and phoenix.
I dunno there are tons of things you could do. Get your stalkers and marauders in front and use FF.


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12366727*
> Get banshees and phoenix.
> I dunno there are tons of things you could do. Get your stalkers and marauders in front and use FF.


Banshees would be a decent way to win, but there was no time or let up in the pressure to tech.

FF? Not sure what that could mean other than friendly fire. By in front, do you mean to join armies at the bottom of the ramp? Lings with speed could easily go around them and into the mineral line. Plus, there was never quite enough momentum to get a large enough unit ball together that could withstand the surround.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *angrysasquatch;12366833*
> Banshees would be a decent way to win, but there was no time or let up in the pressure to tech.
> 
> FF? Not sure what that could mean other than friendly fire. By in front, do you mean to join armies at the bottom of the ramp? Lings with speed could easily go around them and into the mineral line. Plus, there was never quite enough momentum to get a large enough unit ball together that could withstand the surround.


FF= forcefield. Use it to protect marines from banelings and marauders/stalkers from lings.

By in front I mean get your armies together when you're ready to move out and put the heavy armored units in front to protect marines from banelings. You'll only encounter banelings once or twice, afterwards they won't have time if you do your push correctly.

Lings shouldn't get into your mineral line in the first place, you should be walling off in 2v2s.


----------



## thiru

Someone figured out the MMR system (work in progress) it seems:
http://sc2mmr.blogspot.com/

EDIT: ok the guy corrected a few things and I was using my 4v4 bonus pool by mistake







which is why I got weird results.

My Pp is 218, MMR is 1718 and at my current winrate I will need 22 games to get into diamond









You can put your info in this spread sheet to get the numbers automatically and you can enter later how many games you needed in reality to get promoted so that the author can verify his equations.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Someone figured out the MMR system (work in progress) it seems:
http://sc2mmr.blogspot.com/

EDIT: ok the guy corrected a few things and I was using my 4v4 bonus pool by mistake







which is why I got weird results.

My Pp is 218, MMR is 1718 and at my current winrate I will need 22 games to get into diamond









You can put your info in this spread sheet to get the numbers automatically and you can enter later how many games you needed in reality to get promoted so that the author can verify his equations.


Thanks, will check it out


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Awesomeness.

Unfortunately, I did something wrong. Either that or I'm very, very bad at SC2. Apparently I need over 650,000 games at my current win %, which right now is exactly 50%.









Lemme try this again










Forcewater, did I just play you in a 2v2 earlier?

Reached 3,000 in 1v1's woot.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Awesomeness.

Unfortunately, I did something wrong. Either that or I'm very, very bad at SC2. Apparently I need over 650,000 games at my current win %, which right now is exactly 50%.









Lemme try this again










Oh I forgot to link the spreadsheet, it's here:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?a...any=true#gid=0
(tell me if that link doesn't work)

Just enter the numbers and it'll do it for you.

edit: well the spreadsheet is in "high traffic mode" so you can't see half the info you need to know to fill it out :/


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I managed to find out what to put where, and it gave me some lovely numbers. My Pp is -43, and I need another 1048 games to get promoted







. Still, it's an improvement over 650,000










... what numbers did you put in?


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Someone figured out the MMR system (work in progress) it seems:
http://sc2mmr.blogspot.com/

EDIT: ok the guy corrected a few things and I was using my 4v4 bonus pool by mistake







which is why I got weird results.

My Pp is 218, MMR is 1718 and at my current winrate I will need 22 games to get into diamond









You can put your info in this spread sheet to get the numbers automatically and you can enter later how many games you needed in reality to get promoted so that the author can verify his equations.


This...is AWESOME.

Thanks,

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh I forgot to link the spreadsheet, it's here:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?a...any=true#gid=0
(tell me if that link doesn't work)

Just enter the numbers and it'll do it for you.

edit: well the spreadsheet is in "high traffic mode" so you can't see half the info you need to know to fill it out :/


Someone wanna do mine for me? I'm too lazy







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


29 wins, 29 losses, 89 points and 2546 bonus pool

EDIT: 1000 magic number, too


Well it's 1000 games assuming you don't improve your win/lose ratio (generally being promoted = getting a better win/lose ratio), and assuming your magic number is 1000 (there's 1000 and 500, depending on your division). Also the spreadsheet calculates the number of games needed without bonus pool I think (so instead of winning 13 points, you'll normally get 26 thanks to it).

What's your bonus pool Doom? although there's not much point for you, except knowing your mmr. For those not in masters it tells you how many games you need to get promoted (assuming the model is correct).


----------



## Liamo Luo

Hmm, I'm struggling to get the figures I need... anyone help me out?
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/667648/1/Liamo/

Don't laugh at my lack of 1v1 games







Only recently started the 1v1 really.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well it's 1000 games assuming you don't improve your win/lose ratio (generally being promoted = getting a better win/lose ratio), and assuming your magic number is 1000 (there's 1000 and 500, depending on your division). Also the spreadsheet calculates the number of games needed without bonus pool I think (so instead of winning 13 points, you'll normally get 26 thanks to it).

What's your bonus pool Doom?


If you click that link, then click my Masters division it says at the top. If it says nothing its 0. But currently its 2.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Think I got it... supposedly I need 152 games to get to silver  ouch!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh I forgot to link the spreadsheet, it's here:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?a...any=true#gid=0
(tell me if that link doesn't work)

Just enter the numbers and it'll do it for you.

edit: well the spreadsheet is in "high traffic mode" so you can't see half the info you need to know to fill it out :/


Lol, this guy must have had too much time on his hands.

Anyway I have MMR of 51 and need "lolgames" to get to masters. Seems pretty accurate.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Forcewater, did I just play you in a 2v2 earlier?

Reached 3,000 in 1v1's woot.


Congrats on 3k Cory









Curious, anyone know how to hide your sotis record? I don't mind dying, so, usually I just jump into action and sometimes whenever I retreat, I get taken out by some odd ability(still don't know majority of them since I'm pretty new). It's pretty annoying going into a game and then everyone starts mentioning not dying, etc.... I'm just not as concerned about my record and dying as everyone else


----------



## Gigalisk

Dude what is SotIS? I've been hearing about it...but i'm waiting until i get back to the real "not sandy" world to play with good bandwidth. It's like a DotA for SC2 right? I think...


----------



## yks

thiru, do my stats for me







idk how to work that thing


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Dude what is SotIS? I've been hearing about it...but i'm waiting until i get back to the real "not sandy" world to play with good bandwidth. *It's like a DotA for SC2 right?* I think...


Yes, it is, although, people can be rather annoying when they only consider your k/d ratio and not the fun factor :/


----------



## Moheevi_chess

I uploaded some recent PvZ games that I have played if any toss needs to learn PvZ.
Replays


----------



## DoomDash

Feeling pretty confident for the 2nd tournament. Ice should be easy, Crash is far less points Protoss than I frequently crush ( Diamond ), and he took out a Master Zerg for me. Tear is a mid-Diamond Zerg but I should be able to handle that fine.

Also signed up for this one, $50 top prize. I know the admin he is trying to get this site popular for cash prize tournaments for all leagues.
http://sc2combat.com/showthread.php?tid=28


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12377465*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling pretty confident for the 2nd tournament. Ice should be easy, Crash is far less points Protoss than I frequently crush ( Diamond ), and he took out a Master Zerg for me. Tear is a mid-Diamond Zerg but I should be able to handle that fine.
> 
> Also signed up for this one, $50 top prize. I know the admin he is trying to get this site popular for cash prize tournaments for all leagues.
> http://sc2combat.com/showthread.php?tid=28


GL. I haven't been playing in tourneys except for a teamspeak here and there. Made it to the RO8 one series, but lost to a pro dKiller.


----------



## Ruckol1

Hey guys. I just got into SC2, started playing to try and get better. Been watching a lot of TL replays, and Day9.

I'd appreciate it if I could play with some of you guys or one of you would like to try your hand at coaching me or even just watching a replay- anything along those lines.

Here is my link

http://sc2ranks.com/us/1314326/Glorify

Also would love to try and get in on some tournaments or something- although I'm not sure if there's any for Brozners


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12377691*
> Hey guys. I just got into SC2, started playing to try and get better. Been watching a lot of TL replays, and Day9.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if I could play with some of you guys or one of you would like to try your hand at coaching me or even just watching a replay- anything along those lines.
> 
> Here is my link
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/1314326/Glorify
> 
> Also would love to try and get in on some tournaments or something- although I'm not sure if there's any for Brozners


There are tournaments for Bronzes, TL(team liquid) has some listed, but, you'll need to look for them. Join the overclock.net channel in SCII and then ask if anyone is interested in a game/coaching, etc.... and hopefully, someone will agree







Nice location btw









GL in the tournament doom. BTW, what tournament is that? Seems like they fix times up as in when opponents can play in comparison to that newegg one back in Dec, would be interesting to play for fun


----------



## BigFan

-Double post-


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12375265*
> thiru, do my stats for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idk how to work that thing


If you don't know how to do it, just go to this spreadsheet
https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?authkey=CNzi--YI&hl=en&key=tF91xU7MjbXWPn_v4LFZpUA&toomany=true#gid=0

And enter your points, losses, wins, unspent bonus bool and magic number. Magic number depends on your league:

Bronze (to Silver) - 500 or 1000
Silver (to Gold) - 250
Gold (to Platinum) - 250
Platinum (to Diamond) - 250
Diamond (to Master) - 475
Master - 2225

Don't ask me how to choose for bronze, I don't know.
Then you'll get your Pp and average games required to get promoted in the grey columns.

Then add this number to your Pp to get your MMR:

Bronze - 0 or 500
Silver - 1000
Gold - 1250
Platinum - 1500
Diamond - 1750
Master - 2225

I wonder if this is remotely correct or some huge troll though


----------



## raizooor3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=qlc0S8LLtsg


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raizooor3;12380034*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=qlc0S8LLtsg


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REnk8QoCNZ8[/ame]


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you don't know how to do it, just go to this spreadsheet
https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?a...any=true#gid=0

And enter your points, losses, wins, unspent bonus bool and magic number. Magic number depends on your league:

Bronze (to Silver) - 500 or 1000
Silver (to Gold) - 250
Gold (to Platinum) - 250
Platinum (to Diamond) - 250
Diamond (to Master) - 475
Master - 2225

Don't ask me how to choose for bronze, I don't know.
Then you'll get your Pp and average games required to get promoted in the grey columns.

Then add this number to your Pp to get your MMR:

Bronze - 0 or 500
Silver - 1000
Gold - 1250
Platinum - 1500
Diamond - 1750
Master - 2225

I wonder if this is remotely correct or some huge troll though










everytime i add the 5 numbers nothing happens


----------



## rather_be_surfin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, it is, although, people can be rather annoying when they only consider your k/d ratio and not the fun factor :/


this is coming from someone who plays sotis casually as well (as well as dota and a bit of league of legends).....the main reason why they're so concerned about it has more to do with providing the enemy team with a large bonus in $$ for killing you. the game is a constant unforgiving balancing act in which the mid and late game are largely influenced by what items you have and needless deaths can very well lose the game for a team : /

edit-however, the sotis "community" is really flaky, *****y, unfriendly to noobs, and in general really not the best to play with.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12378120*
> 
> GL in the tournament doom. BTW, what tournament is that? Seems like they fix times up as in when opponents can play in comparison to that newegg one back in Dec, would be interesting to play for fun


It's just he SCC tournament #2. I won #1.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/video/318919-qxc_decided_Im_going_to_go_to_Korea


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigfan;12375548*
> yes, it is, although, people can be rather annoying when they only consider your k/d ratio and not the fun factor :/


ಠ_ಠ


----------



## thiru

Dunno if the spreadsheet address changed or something, but it's working now and it seems to be giving a different result for me now (had 218 yesterday and now it's 354).

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...rcraft/c1glzyp


----------



## yks

man, i need to take a break. bad decision making this morning. T_T

its like im playing on auto-pilot


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Dunno if the spreadsheet address changed or something, but it's working now and it seems to be giving a different result for me now (had 218 yesterday and now it's 354).

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...rcraft/c1glzyp


nice, i DL'd the spreadsheet. according to him, i'm REALLY REALLY far. =/


----------



## thiru

Well don't take it as discouragement, as far as I know nobody else has come up to confirm whether this works or not. Blizzard said MMR was a set of numbers, so this still looks very weird to me.


----------



## Ruckol1

I can't seem to be able to get it working at all. I'm 75-55, have 888 points and 1973 left in bonus pool. Could anyone pop those in maybe and let me know where I'm at? Want to move up


----------



## thiru

What league are you in?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rather_be_surfin*


this is coming from someone who plays sotis casually as well (as well as dota and a bit of league of legends).....the main reason why they're so concerned about it has more to do with providing the enemy team with a large bonus in $$ for killing you. the game is a constant unforgiving balancing act in which the mid and late game are largely influenced by what items you have and needless deaths can very well lose the game for a team : /

edit-however, the sotis "community" is really flaky, *****y, unfriendly to 
noobs, and in general really not the best to play with.


While I agree, I just think it's pathetic is all. The issue is, people forget about the fun aspect of games and think that getting a high k/d is what's more important. I've only tried maybe 7-8 characters so far and a game I played yesterday, I went without a death for the majority of the time but then with 2 quits on our side, it was 4 to 3 and that changed to 4-5-1. I think the issue is with the matching system(non-existant). If the system could match you with people your level(couple of games played, etc...) then you'll get a better chance to develop your skills instead of being creamed while trying to explore the abilities, items, etc....









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well don't take it as discouragement, as far as I know nobody else has come up to confirm whether this works or not. Blizzard said MMR was a set of numbers, so this still looks very weird to me.


I did mine, it was like a Pp of 60 or something XD Guess I'm going to have to win a lot to get to gold. Funny considering that I'll go on a small win streak, then lose a game then on another streak









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I can't seem to be able to get it working at all. I'm 75-55, have 888 points and 1973 left in bonus pool. Could anyone pop those in maybe and let me know where I'm at? Want to move up










Just give it time, keep on winning even when matched against higher opponents, then when you get a lose, more than likely you'll get a promotion


----------



## rhed5

yks, what's the magic # for today? you aiming for 50? at these rates, you will be there in no time.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While I agree, I just think it's pathetic is all. The issue is, people forget about the fun aspect of games and think that getting a high k/d is what's more important. I've only tried maybe 7-8 characters so far and a game I played yesterday, I went without a death for the majority of the time but then with 2 quits on our side, it was 4 to 3 and that changed to 4-5-1. I think the issue is with the matching system(non-existant). If the system could match you with people your level(couple of games played, etc...) then you'll get a better chance to develop your skills instead of being creamed while trying to explore the abilities, items, etc....









I did mine, it was like a Pp of 60 or something XD Guess I'm going to have to win a lot to get to gold. Funny considering that I'll go on a small win streak, then lose a game then on another streak









Just give it time, keep on winning even when matched against higher opponents, then when you get a lose, more than likely you'll get a promotion











I'm 76-55 now, almost all my games are against silver or gold and I'm winning most of them. I had a 20-3 run at one point, and still didn't go up









Edit: My last two or three games have been against gold players who were all slightly favored, and I beat them all. Hopefully will go up soon!


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


yks, what's the magic # for today? you aiming for 50? at these rates, you will be there in no time.


nah, i think ima take a break today. everytime i play, i feel like a zombie, like im playing off instinct instead of actually thinking.

just like weight training, over training is counter-productive, you gotta rest for a couple of days.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


nah, i think ima take a break today. everytime i play, i feel like a zombie, like im playing off instinct instead of actually thinking.

just like weight training, over training is counter-productive, you gotta rest for a couple of days.


Quality > Quantity.

Just watch some pro games and think about what you've been doing wrong. Think of strategies to stop the comps that have been giving you trouble as well, play it out in your head then try it in a custom game or two. That's what I do at least and why I tend to have such a high downtime between plays. I think it helps a lot because I improve very well every time I play.


----------



## yks

yah. thats why im taking a break today, hopefully. gotta fight the urge!


----------



## Mwarren

Playing too much can actually be detrimental to your gameplay if you're not focused on improving. I know a guy that plays around 30 games a day everyday and he went from being in platinum to dive bombing into silver.


----------



## BigFan

Never realized how much fun kiting with marines is till now, I mean I knew it was fun but never this much XD

^^Pretty much. Main reason why I only play when I feel like it


----------



## rather_be_surfin

BigFan said:


> If the system could match you with people your level(couple of games played, etc...) then you'll get a better chance to develop your skills instead of being creamed while trying to explore the abilities, items, etc....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> yea, quitting isn't an issue assuming your teammates don't bone you in the ass and rage quit before selling off their items...
> 
> I do agree completely though. sotis's main weakness is it's reliance on the random matchmaking in custom games. Nothing worse than getting pitted up against an organized 5 man team all communicating via teamspeak/skype/vent and completely tearing you apart.
> 
> On the topic of actual SC what keyboards are you guys using? i tried out a deck legend with mx black switches and i honestly don't like the way it feels. My hands end up feeling fatigued after several hours of laddering. Got a keyboard with blues on the way to see how that feels.
> 
> edit-can't seem to get the quote tags to work....hrmmm....


----------



## thiru

I have a Das Model S Ultimate Silent.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rather_be_surfin*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


If the system could match you with people your level(couple of games played, etc...) then you'll get a better chance to develop your skills instead of being creamed while trying to explore the abilities, items, etc....










yea, quitting isn't an issue assuming your teammates don't bone you in the ass and rage quit before selling off their items...

I do agree completely though. sotis's main weakness is it's reliance on the random matchmaking in custom games. Nothing worse than getting pitted up against an organized 5 man team all communicating via teamspeak/skype/vent and completely tearing you apart.

On the topic of actual SC what keyboards are you guys using? i tried out a deck legend with mx black switches and i honestly don't like the way it feels. My hands end up feeling fatigued after several hours of laddering. Got a keyboard with blues on the way to see how that feels.


I'm using some 10 year old hp keyboard XD As for sotis, you're telling me







My games have been the following, join, choose some new character to try out abilities, survive in the early game with a maybe a kill or two if lucky, maybe an assist then all hell breaks looses in the mid game. I think a couple of games were like 0-17-1 or something. The game last night, all the players were a similar level, was able to go 4-5-1, so, I think it's mostly experience that's the issue and the matching system









Edit: You ate the * [/ * off the Quote] part of the quote


----------



## rather_be_surfin

^^^that would do it :b

I had the same problem in regards to the mid/late game when i first started playing sotis (just barely figured out the items recently) the main problem came from other players being able to kill off the enemy creep and get the $$ instead of the friendly creep getting the kills. When they do this they just get exponentially stronger compared to a newer player who's really having a hard time farming.


----------



## wongster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I have a Das Model S Ultimate Silent.


What are your opinions on the brown switches for SC2, thiru?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rather_be_surfin*


^^^that would do it :b

I had the same problem in regards to the mid/late game when i first started playing sotis (just barely figured out the items recently) the main problem came from other players being able to kill off the enemy creep and get the $$ instead of the friendly creep getting the kills. When they do this they just get exponentially stronger compared to a newer player who's really having a hard time farming.


Kill off enemy creep? As in creep tumours?







I'm still trying to find the best items, but, so far, I find that the weapon and speed items you can buy from the prism/queen are the best to start. Then I aim for the neosteel armor, maybe anaerobic regeneration, along with some weapons one such as the rail gun and not sure what the other is called, has a flame on it. I think once you figured out your preferred character and best weapons, it'll make the game much easier


----------



## thiru

They're great except I haven't tried other mechanical switches to compare them to.


----------



## Sainesk

nearly a whole month without practice, bronze league here I come... (right after I reinstall since my silly windows is acting up)

anyway I hope next time they do teams on GOM they actually have 4v4s or 2v2s or something like that...

BigFan you in masters yet since the last time I saw you?


----------



## rather_be_surfin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Kill off enemy creep? As in creep tumours?







I'm still trying to find the best items, but, so far, I find that the weapon and speed items you can buy from the prism/queen are the best to start. Then I aim for the neosteel armor, maybe anaerobic regeneration, along with some weapons one such as the rail gun and not sure what the other is called, has a flame on it. I think once you figured out your preferred character and best weapons, it'll make the game much easier











creep=endlessly spawning units that are crashing into each other. figuring out figuring out the item situation really helps a lot....

my keyboard purchases have had the primary focus of improving my apm :b and honestly? the blacks really didn't feel right for rts type play imo.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wongster*


What are your opinions on the brown switches for SC2, thiru?


Tester/Ssks and Cool/Fruitdealer use them with Filco Majestouch w/o NKRO. I saw their keyboards in an Artosis video of GSL. I personally picked this over blacks for that reason.

For mouse I use an Abyssus as many pros use a Salmosa which is basically the predecessor to Abyssus. The Abyssus is a super light small flat finger tip grip gaming mouse. Its fine for other games but if you are dedicated FPS or need macro keys it wont help you for that.

Im 2550D w/ 300 pool facing 3k players atm.
http://sc2ranks.com/us/353409/Ploppytheman

Not sure how to put that link in my sig...


----------



## thiru

Actually Tester has a Filco Zero with some alps I believe.


----------



## wongster

I'm certainly not a high enough level player to give any real tips, but I'm of the opinion that improving APM means making every action worthwhile. Eventually if you play enough, you'll gain speed and more meaningful APM (vs. something like spamming actions, something I'm guilty of). Having the right keyboard could possibly help too though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


nearly a whole month without practice, bronze league here I come... (right after I reinstall since my silly windows is acting up)

anyway I hope next time they do teams on GOM they actually have 4v4s or 2v2s or something like that...

*BigFan you in masters yet since the last time I saw you?*










XD
Like you, my SCII games have been on the low side this past month, so, I'm still in silver. I also discovered sotis which has taken away from that. Futhermore, I went random, so, I've been trying to work on my T/P and Z has taken a backseat atm. On the bright side, this means that you won't be getting many slings/banes attacking your fragile MMM XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rather_be_surfin*


creep=endlessly spawning units that are crashing into each other. figuring out figuring out the item situation really helps a lot....

my keyboard purchases have had the primary focus of improving my apm :b and honestly? the blacks really didn't feel right for rts type play imo.


Well, apm is important, but, not in BW sense







As for the creep, I guess I see your point


----------



## wongster

I think it was FruitDealer who had a Filco Zero with clicky alps switches, while Tester had a Filco with quieter brown switches.


----------



## Ploppytheman

At some point Tester/Cool both had a Filco w/ browns w/o NKRO from Majestouch. YOu can tell by the LED light color and FILCO name color in an ArtosisTV GSL prelim vids.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=1

I dont know if they have changed since then but I doubt they would change a $100+ KB in a few months time. Not that it really matters but I heard browns are good for double tapping, repitition w/o strain (aka blacks are bad for RTS endurance).


----------



## BigFan

Guys, practice will lead you to improve much faster than a keyboard ever will. Having said that, I'm sure that some keyboards are easier/better for certain genres than others


----------



## rather_be_surfin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wongster*


I'm certainly not a high enough level player to give any real tips, but I'm of the opinion that improving APM means making every action worthwhile. Eventually if you play enough, you'll gain speed and more meaningful APM (vs. something like spamming actions, something I'm guilty of). Having the right keyboard could possibly help too though.


exactly, this daily definitely goes into detail about that exact concept.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4712303/

edit for clarification-in regards to making your actions efficient as opposed to simply spamming (which really does you no good.)


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


your fragile MMM XD










actually I was thinking of switching to Zerg mainly because I find them hard to play (confusion about when to make units instead of drones etc.) so it's my turn to baneling rush your Thor/Colossus/Ultralisk


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*









actually I was thinking of switching to Zerg mainly because I find them hard to play (confusion about when to make units instead of drones etc.) so it's my turn to baneling rush your Thor/Colossus/Ultralisk










lol, it takes 20+ banes to kill a thor XD Banes are great against light units(marines, zealots, etc....) but against other units, it's really debatable. As for switching to Z, I really need T/PvsZ practice and I could only guess you need ZvsT/P, so, we can probably help each other


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Guys, practice will lead you to improve much faster than a keyboard ever will. Having said that, I'm sure that some keyboards are easier/better for certain genres than others










This is true. I use a $10 keyboard (samsung dt-35) that I bought in 2002 for bw, with missing f1 and window key's and it is still going strong. I don't think durability is an issue with most keyboards as I've done a ridiculous amount of strokes on these badboys.


----------



## wongster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Guys, practice will lead you to improve much faster than a keyboard ever will.


Definitely, though you do have to practice correctly in order to see improvement. Practicing all-in builds will only get a player so far, while perfecting macro will help so much more. This is of course coming from a Gold player that has only played ~50 1v1's. Haha


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Tester/Ssks and Cool/Fruitdealer use them with Filco Majestouch w/o NKRO. I saw their keyboards in an Artosis video of GSL. I personally picked this over blacks for that reason.

For mouse I use an Abyssus as many pros use a Salmosa which is basically the predecessor to Abyssus. The Abyssus is a super light small flat finger tip grip gaming mouse. Its fine for other games but if you are dedicated FPS or need macro keys it wont help you for that.

Im 2550D w/ 300 pool facing 3k players atm.
http://sc2ranks.com/us/353409/Ploppytheman

Not sure how to put that link in my sig...


Filco Browns all the way.


----------



## vdek

ಠ_ಠ

I like my blues


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


ಠ_ಠ

I like my blues


x2


----------



## wongster

What do you guys like about your blue switches? I don't own a mech keyboard (yet), but I would think blue switches would be a fantastic way to keep a rhythm while in a game of SC2.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wongster*


What do you guys like about your blue switches? I don't own a mech keyboard (yet), but I would think blue switches would be a fantastic way to keep a rhythm while in a game of SC2.


Yeah I love them because they feel great, and they are loud. Really does help keep up a mental pace for SCII.


----------



## Ruckol1

All day I've been matched up against gold and even a platinum player, and won almost all except 2 or 3. Still bronze but I should hopefully go up soon.

The only way I seem to be losing is if they don't expand and just try to build army while I macro, and even then it's close if I lose they typically do just enough damage for me to not be able to pump out enough roaches/hydras/lings to turn it all the way around. I need to learn to scout better I think.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


All day I've been matched up against gold and even a platinum player, and won almost all except 2 or 3. Still bronze but I should hopefully go up soon.

The only way I seem to be losing is if they don't expand and just try to build army while I macro, and even then it's close if I lose they typically do just enough damage for me to not be able to pump out enough roaches/hydras/lings to turn it all the way around. I need to learn to scout better I think.


You're probably going to jump a league or two.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


yks, what's the magic # for today? you aiming for 50? at these rates, you will be there in no time.


I think 50 is a bit much yks, I would say take a break from SCII for a day or two. Maybe play WOW then come back tommorrow and get into masters









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I'm 76-55 now, almost all my games are against silver or gold and I'm winning most of them. I had a 20-3 run at one point, and still didn't go up









Edit: My last two or three games have been against gold players who were all slightly favored, and I beat them all. Hopefully will go up soon!


Sometimes if a player is doing badly, he'll play lower opponents, as in I've had my bad days and losing a few in a row, had me playing against bronze opponents who would just VR rush *-_-

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're probably going to jump a league or two.











Quite possible as well^^


----------



## Gigalisk

Made no. 1 in bronze again yesterday. I'm getting close to 3k! Hopefully i get above 50% so i can jump into the next league.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Made no. 1 in bronze again yesterday. I'm getting close to 3k! Hopefully i get above 50% so i can jump into the next league.


I just went to silver, I'm fifth here. Maybe I can get to gold by tonight?









Not likely, exam tmo.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12385999*
> I just went to silver, I'm fifth here. Maybe I can get to gold by tonight?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not likely, exam tmo.


I'm going to try for Silver when i get home.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12363994*
> I believe it's in reference to "*THE* Idra". It's really unlikely that Idra would stop by this thread XD


haha first off idra spells his name: IdrA exactly with a capital I and A.

2nd: Why would IdrA ask random people on overclock.net for practice... he could probably destroy everyone on this forum in SC2 no offense.

3) IdrA is a very pessimistic person if you ever seen his personality so the cute avatar does not fit IdrA at all.

Basically it's just a IdrA fan using his name... like MarineKingPrime did when he took Boxer's name.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;12387197*
> haha first off idra spells his name: IdrA exactly with a capital I and A.
> 
> 2nd: Why would IdrA ask random people on overclock.net for practice... he could probably destroy everyone on this forum in SC2 no offense.
> 
> 3) IdrA is a very pessimistic person if you ever seen his personality so the cute avatar does not fit IdrA at all.
> 
> Basically it's just a IdrA fan using his name... like MarineKingPrime did when he took Boxer's name.


lol, if you re-read my post, you would realize that I'm saying Idra wouldn't make an account on OCN and post in this thread for practice and you restated it, although, laid it out better. I also know about his personality due to watching some of his games and hearing about his BMs


----------



## Gigalisk

Dude...i'm pretty sure i posted that like 2 days ago.

Anyway, i don't follow the circuit because there isn't that much bandwidth in the Sandy place to do so.

I just seen some of his replays on Youtube while at work. So yeah, i just had to ask. Lot of impersonators i understand.

ANYWAY: got a pretty juicy replay, i say i macroed all right until it was time for the coup de grace...then i just let the units do their thing.



Enjoy.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)

PS: Feedback plz


----------



## thiru

Use hotkeys, control groups (check the OP, Nevaziah made a guide) and waypoints. During half the game you had 4 void rays and 4 immortals not doing anything and you kept engaging with only half your army every time.
PvP at your level should revolve around colossi. Get them.

A single saturated base can support only 4 gate/robo/stargate if you constantly make units out of them. You shouldn't be getting that many buildings on 1 base.

Constantly make probes and don't get supply blocked.

Btw showing games you won isn't very useful for feedback.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think colossi starts about gold league. In bronze it's all about void rays. And cannons.

Also it's totally fine to have more production facilities per base than you can support, especially at that level, and especially in PvP. He's nowhere close to the level where getting two less gateways would affect the outcome of the game, while it can actually help him, as he'll just get more **** out.

And yea, use control groups and hot keys, it's pretty important. May feel awkward at the beginning, but once you get used to it you'll be much better.


----------



## DoomDash

My SCII is patching.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
maybe op?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VokfKE-rH4


Must have seen my replays.







It's op.


----------



## thiru

It works against everything. In the phantom custom game I did it against a 200/200 stalker+voidray army and completely destroyed it.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Use hotkeys, control groups (check the OP, Nevaziah made a guide) and waypoints. During half the game you had 4 void rays and 4 immortals not doing anything and you kept engaging with only half your army every time.
PvP at your level should revolve around colossi. Get them.

A single saturated base can support only 4 gate/robo/stargate if you constantly make units out of them. You shouldn't be getting that many buildings on 1 base.

Constantly make probes and don't get supply blocked.

Btw *showing games you won isn't very useful for feedback*.


Yeah i'm still working on that control key/micro thing. And concerning losing games, you should probably check my replays before you say anything else, i have posted a couple losing games here and there where i don't think i made any mistakes, i just got outplayed and i have to know how to get better. So if you leave some comments on those, that would be great. Thanks!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I think colossi starts about gold league. In bronze it's all about void rays. And cannons.

Also it's totally fine to have more production facilities per base than you can support, especially at that level, and especially in PvP. He's nowhere close to the level where getting two less gateways would affect the outcome of the game, while it can actually help him, as he'll just get more **** out.

And yea, use control groups and hot keys, it's pretty important. May feel awkward at the beginning, but once you get used to it you'll be much better.


I would have bumped up to Collossi/carriers if i didnt keep getting pushed. I was on 2 expansions and expo no. 2 was in danger, so i opted for more numbers in the rear of his army, where he may have seen collossi coming and adapted to that. Granted, his army would have been decimated faster, but then again, i decided to err on the side of caution.

Thanks! Don't forget to look at my (LOSS) replays when you get a chance.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


My SCII is patching.


YAAY hope new maps are live. Pump some new life into the ladder.


----------



## poroboszcz

^ To be honest there's not much strategic advice you would benefit from. At this point it is mainly about mechanics and macro. So you should probably focus on using these hotkeys and doing things on time.

For example you should start warp gate research as soon as cybernetics core is finished. Just keep checking on it once in a while and when it's close to done, select it and hold G so warp gate research starts immediately. Similarly you should start your immortal/observer/robotics bay the second your robo is finished, start your upgrade as soon as forge is done, make void ray immediately after stargate etc.

Also make sure you make buildings, especially in the beginning, as soon as you can afford them, eg. first pylon exactly at 100 minerals, gate at 150 etc.

You can practice this in single player against very easy AI. Just play few games like this a day focusing only on this stuff, not getting supply blocked and making probes all the time. Then once you are in the real game you'll do it kinda automatically.

Finally, as protoss, in 90% of cases you should keep your whole army together.


----------



## yks

what was the patch just now? simply bug fixes?


----------



## Gigalisk

True, except in this case i disagree! Because of his blinking kite micro, i was really hard pressed to chase across the map, because then the only thing that would try to keep up is my chargelots which will get picked off one by one. Only thing that (was a gamble, but) i thought it would work is to create a second group of chargelots/stalkers, so when he was between blinks, i could sneak up behind him and trap his stalkers long enough to take them out.

Usually i would just keep the group together thouogh, you're definitely right about that.


----------



## vdek

Woo I got JTV Producer's badge, now I have to stream more :O


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Is Starcraft II down right now? My game stars but once i am in the log in screen its fades to black but you can still see it and then it quits to windows. I tried to repair the game but it says can not connect to Bliz servers.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*


Is Starcraft II down right now? My game stars but once i am in the log in screen its fades to black but you can still see it and then it quits to windows. I tried to repair the game but it says can not connect to Bliz servers.


The game just updated, the servers are always a bit weird when that happens.


----------



## Gigalisk

For anyone having a hard time with the Blizz updater, you can also use the Blizzard Patch FTP in my sig. FTP may work faster than the blizzloader.

Bookmark and enjoy!

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## DoomDash

I was thinking they should change the shield to health ratio of Protoss units. If you made the shields less, EMP would be less effective, but at the same time retreating units with damaged HP would be a little less effective ( vs Zerg ideally ).


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm on, got some time. In the overclock.net channel, wouldn't mind anyone wanting to come on and custom with me, help me out or anything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12395894*
> I was thinking they should change the shield to health ratio of Protoss units. If you made the shields less, EMP would be less effective, but at the same time retreating units with damaged HP would be a little less effective ( vs Zerg ideally ).


Interesting idea, but, as you mentioned, a double edged sword. It would protoss a little less OP


----------



## Gigalisk

ROR less op? Less op than Terran? Plus we're already handicapped because we have to get craptons of resources to generate an army with decent tech. Its not like we come off our first production building with ranged units you know...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;12397004*
> ROR less op? Less op than Terran? Plus we're already handicapped because we have to get craptons of resources to generate an army with decent tech. Its not like we come off our first production building with ranged units you know...


Protoss is the best race at your level, just saying.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12397020*
> Protoss is the best race at your level, just saying.


Explain...don't quite get you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;12397004*
> ROR less op? Less op than Terran? Plus we're already handicapped because we have to get craptons of resources to generate an army with decent tech. Its not like we come off our first production building with ranged units you know...


ROR? Actually I believe that P>T>Z. T is better early game but late game P is almost unstoppable if you are constantly harassing and slowing against colossi, etc....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12397020*
> Protoss is the best race at your level, just saying.


True indeed!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;12397165*
> Explain...don't quite get you.


If you can't win with Protoss in Bronze - Gold you are one of the few having troubles. Protoss has always dominated those leagues.


----------



## Gigalisk

They don't use toss that much in Plat and higher?


----------



## Twistacles

They do, but in Plat and lower leagues, mechanics are BY FAR the limiting factor in your success as a gamer.

Protoss has, quite bluntly, the easiest mechanics. Zerg requires RTS knowledge and game sense and Terran requires good macro and micro.


----------



## yks

wait, protoss has the easiest mechanics? i didn't know that.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12397790*
> wait, protoss has the easiest mechanics? i didn't know that.


*[sarcasm]*
Of course it has. Everyone knows that calling down mule/vomiting larva every x seconds is much harder than timing and wisely distributing chronoboost. Also 4szzzzzz or 5aadd is way more difficult then checking gateways cool down and warping in units. Finally there's no doubt that, especially in lower leagues 1ta is just too much for some players unlike proper forcefield use.

It's a common sense that protoss doesn't require good micro and macro. It's kinda auto-win race. Most pros don't play it because of self-respect.








Check a bunch of pro replays. You'll see hard it is to keep that queen energy near 0 and don't miss production out of barracks or factory. At the same time, even in gold, nexus energy is always super low and warp gate cycles are never missed.*[/sarcasm]*


----------



## yks

why so knowledgeable, blinker?


----------



## wongster

Hm. I think each race has different sets of mechanics you need to worry about (larva, chronoboost, and mule/scan management, for example), so there isn't one race with "easier mechanics". Each race is pretty balanced, but I think Protoss dominates lower leagues because everyone learned about the 4gate push. Most people like accomplishing something with minimal effort and since the 4gate is a simple, solid build order that has the potential to net wins, hey why not?

Plus, some people probably think futuristic shiny Protoss are cooler than fellow Terrans or slimy Zerg. Haha


----------



## Katana

MULE is every 50 energy. Chrono Boost is every 25, and you have to take a moment to decide what you currently need most for production. If it is easier, it's certainly not "obviously" easier.


----------



## Idra

Been playing Protoss lately and it pisses me off that this game isn't "balanced" for mirrors yet. What I mean is, there's only a few builds that are worth using in mirrors. I macroed way better than my opponent and yet he was able to beat me. Robotics tech is the only tech worth using in PvP. Colossi + stalkers > everything else.

At least in TvT, there's variety. MMM + banshees + vikings is as effective as marine tank viking. Hell, every unit can be used effectively in TvT. In PVP, void rays and phoenix are practically worthless.


----------



## poroboszcz

Edit my previous post since it's the internet and some people might not get what I actually wanted to say.


----------



## yks

how could people not tell it was sarcasm, it was oozing sarcasm i thought my monitor was gonna break from all that ooze.


----------



## ablearcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katana;12398312*
> MULE is every 50 energy. Chrono Boost is every 25, and you have to take a moment to decide what you currently need most for production. If it is easier, it's certainly not "obviously" easier.


That and protoss don't need to take multiple peons off the line to build buildings, like terran does. Though in late game (assuming the terran hasn't decided to only go MMM through "late game"







), it does benefit terran in a certain way. However, there is a bit of debate past mid game, it is better to use MULES or use that energy for scans and supersupplydepots.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sure but if you look at every pvt replay, even with few more probes terrans get much more resources with less scvcs.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Sure but if you look at every pvt replay, even with few more probes terrans get much more resources with less scvcs.


Sure but the mule is a terran speciality which helps with gathering minerals, similar to chronoboost for protoss and spawn larvae.

In terms of what race is easiest to play, well, I think everyone here missed it. It all depends on the type of player you are. If you like harass, T/P are better than Z at doing that early to mid game. There really isn't an easy one so to speak because they are all unique so they can't be compared. I've always seen protoss as the micro race, with many different abilities and they are a dream to play if you love micro. Zerg has always been macro, keep on expanding, take over map, droning, etc.... and only make units when needed. Terran is in the middle, you need good macro to keep production but you also need micro in terms of positioning, etc....

TL;DR Can't be compared, opinion-> Zerg, macro race. Protoss, micro race. Terran, in between.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


opinion-> Zerg, macro race. Protoss, micro race. Terran, OP easy win race.


Sounds about right.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Sounds about right.


XD Terran isn't OP, maybe in the early game, MMM is pretty powerful but Protoss late game is hell to go up against especially when they get colossi. Most of my losses against Protoss as Zerg once I got used to their mechanics was when I would defend successfully against their first attack, then 5-10 minutes later, they come with 2-3 colossi and some stalkers, my units stood no chance. Given I could've probably macro'd more to get more units and scouted the colossi for corruptors, but, colossi are too powerful especially when you have a couple out :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


*[sarcasm]*
Of course it has. Everyone knows that calling down mule/vomiting larva every x seconds is much harder than timing and wisely distributing chronoboost. Also 4szzzzzz or 5aadd is way more difficult then checking gateways cool down and warping in units. Finally there's no doubt that, especially in lower leagues 1ta is just too much for some players unlike proper forcefield use.

It's a common sense that protoss doesn't require good micro and macro. It's kinda auto-win race. Most pros don't play it because of self-respect.








Check a bunch of pro replays. You'll see hard it is to keep that queen energy near 0 and don't miss production out of barracks or factory. At the same time, even in gold, nexus energy is always super low and warp gate cycles are never missed.*[/sarcasm]*


We are saying in the lower leagues, based upon stats. No one said anything about higher leagues where things are much much different.


----------



## ablearcher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


XD Terran isn't OP, maybe in the early game, MMM is pretty powerful but Protoss late game is hell to go up against especially when they get colossi. Most of my losses against Protoss as Zerg once I got used to their mechanics was when I would defend successfully against their first attack, then 5-10 minutes later, they come with 2-3 colossi and some stalkers, my units stood no chance. Given I could've probably macro'd more to get more units and scouted the colossi for corruptors, but, colossi are too powerful especially when you have a couple out :/


Yeah, a failure of MMM play is not everyone makes the transition over to mech (terrans late game power), since MMM can win the game.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


*[sarcasm]*
Of course it has. Everyone knows that calling down mule/vomiting larva every x seconds is much harder than timing and wisely distributing chronoboost. Also 4szzzzzz or 5aadd is way more difficult then checking gateways cool down and warping in units. Finally there's no doubt that, especially in lower leagues 1ta is just too much for some players unlike proper forcefield use.

It's a common sense that protoss doesn't require good micro and macro. It's kinda auto-win race. Most pros don't play it because of self-respect.








Check a bunch of pro replays. You'll see hard it is to keep that queen energy near 0 and don't miss production out of barracks or factory. At the same time, even in gold, nexus energy is always super low and warp gate cycles are never missed.*[/sarcasm]*


 You must be a Protoss player, huuh? I didn't say Protoss didn't take skill. I said it had the easiest mechanics. WHICH IT DOES, BY FAR. I'm saying this as someone who mained Protoss since the beta and ever since I've been playing Random.


----------



## DoomDash

My girlfriend was watching me explain all the races to her back in the day, and she was like, ooo Protoss looks easy!

Just saying







. For new comers Protoss is a good race. Higher leagues every race is very close and has their own unique pros and cons.


----------



## thiru

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOLL

So many banelings

LOLL

GG flying


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKQBN...layer_embedded


Oh wow that was epic. I watched the baneling part at least 4 times.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Take that video down in a few hours though, don't want to get an infraction.


----------



## vdek

WWW.NASL.TV

It's coming.


----------



## rhed5

Apparently Idra is also going back to the US. Probably related to this NASL.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12405892*
> Apparently Idra is also going back to the US. Probably related to this NASL.


Yeah, I'm getting excited


----------



## yellowtoblerone

WHat is this NASL? wait... I can piece it together now..


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


You must be a Protoss player, huuh? I didn't say Protoss didn't take skill. I said it had the easiest mechanics. WHICH IT DOES, BY FAR. I'm saying this as someone who mained Protoss since the beta and ever since I've been playing Random.


Easy to play in the lower leagues doesn't mean easy mechanics.

protoss dominates lower leagues, true, but its not cause of "easiest mechanics," you might want to brush up on your definitions.

because i feel you're using the word out of context.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


www.nasl.tv

it's coming.


this better be big!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12403309*
> We are saying in the lower leagues, based upon stats. No one said anything about higher leagues where things are much much different.


Yea, but I'm not sure how much it has to do with mechanics. It's quite the limiting factor in all the lower leagues regardless of the race. I think Protoss' popularity in lower leagues has more to do with easy to execute abusive strats like 4 gate, cannon rush, 2 gate rush and mass void rays, and less to do with the actual race mechanics.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;12403586*
> You must be a Protoss player, huuh? I didn't say Protoss didn't take skill. I said it had the easiest mechanics. WHICH IT DOES, BY FAR. I'm saying this as someone who mained Protoss since the beta and ever since I've been playing Random.


Oh right, NOW you have convinced me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12405807*
> WWW.NASL.TV
> 
> It's coming.


Wait, so something like gomtv for NA?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12406401*
> Wait, so something like gomtv for NA?


North
American
Star
League


----------



## yks

edit: i was completely wrong


----------



## thiru

GSL is Global Starcraft II League, not Starleague.

How do you know NASL is Starleague?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12406750*
> GSL is Global Starcraft II League, not Starleague.
> 
> How do you know NASL is Starleague?


What else would it be?

I guess:

North
American
Starcraft
League


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12406750*
> GSL is Global Starcraft II League, not Starleague.
> 
> How do you know NASL is Starleague?


Don't get technical =P.

OSL, MSL is broodwar. GSL is obviously sc2 but you're not gonna say GS2L.

Just like USA, you're not gonna say USofA, but everyone knows the "of" is there.

so with this: everyone knows GSL is sc2 but you're not gonna say GS2L

and don't crush my hopes and dreams, I want GOMtv to move to America as well. =[


----------



## thiru

What I meant was that in GSL, SL means starcraft league, not starleague.
My point is, don't look into names too much.


----------



## rhed5

I don't think NASL has anything to do with GSL. I just can't see it. From what I read on reddit, it looks like the guys behind gosucoaching are behind the domain. If this NASL, is indeed one of the main reasons Idra is moving back,(rather personal reasons) I imagine the prize pool to be pretty good, if so, who is banking this? I would expect a major player behind this. If Idra is moving for monetary reasons, this might have big implications on where all the top players will want to go.


----------



## yks

Yeah, I think I was wrong. The whois on the domain was registered by the people who run GosuCoaching =[


----------



## DoomDash

Not really SCII related:

I went into this used game / movie store yesterday, and it was like the worst store I've ever been in. The shelves were 80% empty space, it was dark, some chinese guy was at the front and was too busy playing a chinese MMO to even look at me and my girlfriend enter. The game section had maybe like 10 PS2 games and 10 xbox 360 games spread out across 2 huge practically empty racks. Sad part is this place has been here for awhile, and I don't see how anybody would want to go here.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12407433*
> Yeah, I think I was wrong. The whois on the domain was registered by the people who run GosuCoaching =[


This is related to INControls HUGELY HYPED UP announcement.


----------



## DoomDash

39 bonus pool to burn today.


----------



## vdek

Ugh, so that girl that's been hoping around streams(Destiny's) KellyMilkies is going to be the Code A caster along with VTTorch...

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193600

This sucks!!!! She has the most confusing accent in the world and she really lacks game knowledge, she says things on Destiny's stream that makes me wanna rage.


----------



## yks

At least so far, she was better than the GLHF.tv casters they had in Assembly.

And the announcement of an announcement from the original announcement.


----------



## thiru

I freaking hate the singaporean accent.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12407850*
> I freaking hate the singaporean accent.


The irony of that statement is not lost on me.
Unfortunately, most people will take that statement matter-of-factly...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12408458*
> The irony of that statement is not lost on me.
> Unfortunately, most people will take that statement matter-of-factly...


wat


----------



## Idra

Been playing team games lately and I noticed its so devoid of skill. Its almost always all-ins. The tight ramp is used against you in team games because its so hard to assist a teammate.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


You must be a Protoss player, huuh? I didn't say Protoss didn't take skill. I said it had the easiest mechanics. WHICH IT DOES, BY FAR. I'm saying this as someone who mained Protoss since the beta and ever since I've been playing Random.


Random is the way to go, you get to play all the different races and come to your own conclusions. You are correct btw, he is a Protoss player









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


My girlfriend was watching me explain all the races to her back in the day, and she was like, ooo Protoss looks easy!

Just saying







. For new comers Protoss is a good race. Higher leagues every race is very close and has their own unique pros and cons.


lol, well still evidence either way









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not really SCII related:

I went into this used game / movie store yesterday, and it was like the worst store I've ever been in. The shelves were 80% empty space, it was dark, some chinese guy was at the front and was too busy playing a chinese MMO to even look at me and my girlfriend enter. The game section had maybe like 10 PS2 games and 10 xbox 360 games spread out across 2 huge practically empty racks. Sad part is this place has been here for awhile, and I don't see how anybody would want to go here.


Name of place? Maybe they are closing down so he didn't really care if anything is sold









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Been playing team games lately and I noticed its so devoid of skill. Its almost always all-ins. The tight ramp is used against you in team games because its so hard to assist a teammate.


Well, 1vs1 are the best to test and develop your skills. Team games are about who can mass VRs, colossi, etc.... and then they attack. Pretty boring and not as dynamic as 1vs1 games


----------



## Idra

I play team games more often than 1v1s because they're less stressful. I don't mind unranked 1v1 games, though.

I usually have to APM spam really hard in the beginning of a ranked 1v1 game to calm down.

After a really intensive game against a high level player, I usually have trouble keeping my hands still for a while. Its almost like I've developed carpal tunnel syndrome (I hope not).

Another thing that annoys me about 1v1 is that even though I'm just a Platinum (I haven't played much games yet so don't judge me >_>), they have make me face Diamond 2500+ players over and over, again. And when I do win, I don't even move up in rank at all...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I play team games more often than 1v1s because they're less stressful. I don't mind unranked 1v1 games, though.

I usually have to APM spam really hard in the beginning of a ranked 1v1 game to calm down.

After a really intensive game against a high level player, I usually have trouble keeping my hands still for a while. Its almost like I've developed carpal tunnel syndrome (I hope not).

Another thing that annoys me about 1v1 is that even though I'm just a Platinum (*I haven't played much games yet so don't judge me >_>*), they have make me face Diamond 2500+ players over and over, again. And when I do win, I don't even move up in rank at all...


I agree, 1vs1 games can be stressful but I go in with the mindset that I'll try my best and if I lose, who cares? I'm only silver, but, have played over 160 games(took a while to get used to playing Z then switched to random a while back, so, I wasn't exactly stable so to speak) and still silver atm, so, don't judge me either







Just keep in mind that whatever happens, it's a game and you won't be so riled up and hopefully you won't have trouble keeping your hands still


----------



## Idra

Also, one of the primary reasons I've switched to Protoss lately was because I had a bit of trouble as Terran against good protoss players. I can beat most Protoss players at a positive win/loss ratio up to 2500 Diamond.

I think its just my unit composition.

Against Protoss, I just do a simple MMM with upgrades for my units. Maybe a few helions if there is no wall-in by my opponent. I usually let my opponent expand first because of how deadly Protoss openings/all-ins can be (4-gate, 2/3 gate starport, etc). To catch up, I would do drops to break his economy.

Then, when I scout colossi, I pump vikings - I try to not to overcompensate on them by making only 3 per colossi or so.

However, I still lose these battles, many times, even when I micro my vikings perfectly to take out several colossi before the ground armies even collide.

Is it because I don't make use of ghosts? It never occurred to me how useful those units were. Do a few EMPs really make the difference in winning battles against protoss gateway balls mixed in with immortals?


----------



## Idra

Lol. I think I have a secret admirer/fan. I just signed up for sc2replayed and I found out someone posted up a replay of one of my victories against his friend (who BMed so hard because of my banshee micro/harass on him), with a description of "best terran ever."

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...an-lost-temple

I'm so flattered. Lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Also, one of the primary reasons I've switched to Protoss lately was because I had a bit of trouble as Terran against good protoss players. I can beat most Protoss players at a positive win/loss ratio up to 2500 Diamond.

I think its just my unit composition.

Against Protoss, I just do a simple MMM with upgrades for my units. Maybe a few helions if there is no wall-in by my opponent. I usually let my opponent expand first because of how deadly Protoss openings/all-ins can be (4-gate, 2/3 gate starport, etc). To catch up, I would do drops to break his economy.

Then, when I scout colossi, I pump vikings - I try to not to overcompensate on them by making only 3 per colossi or so.

However, I still lose these battles, many times, even when I micro my vikings perfectly to take out several colossi before the ground armies even collide.

Is it because I don't make use of ghosts? It never occurred to me how useful those units were. Do a few EMPs really make the difference in winning battles against protoss gateway balls mixed in with immortals?


If I were you, I wouldn't let him expand. Once he lays down the nexus, make a nice MM ball and attack then expand yourself while teching up. Colossi are tough to deal with but against P, I think heavy marauders+stim and vikings are the key to zealots+stalkers+colossi, of course, with some marines. As for ghosts, well, against immortals, I would say they are a must because immortals hard counter marauders badly and without their shields, they go down much faster. Have you ever tried to nuke a protoss? Most don't expect it, so, you might be able to give them a nice surprise and personally find nuke play pretty fun. One of my replays in my sig has a TvsP game on LT where I nuked a Protoss's whole army. He BM'd me afterwards XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Lol. I think I have a secret admirer/fan. I just signed up for sc2replayed and I found out someone posted up a replay of one of my victories against his friend (who BMed so hard because of my banshee micro/harass on him), with a description of "best terran ever."

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...an-lost-temple

I'm so flattered. Lol.


Nice









Edit: I should clarify, marines are the counter to immortals, but, if he has a lot of them and you have a large marauder force, I think you're going to need ghosts ASAP to take out their shields


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12415394*
> I play team games more often than 1v1s because they're less stressful. I don't mind unranked 1v1 games, though.
> 
> I usually have to APM spam really hard in the beginning of a ranked 1v1 game to calm down.
> 
> After a really intensive game against a high level player, I usually have trouble keeping my hands still for a while. Its almost like I've developed carpal tunnel syndrome (I hope not).
> 
> Another thing that annoys me about 1v1 is that even though I'm just a Platinum (I haven't played much games yet so don't judge me >_>), they have make me face Diamond 2500+ players over and over, again. And when I do win, I don't even move up in rank at all...


Well you're on your way to diamond that's for sure. You just need more games. You need like 30-40 games winning against diamonds before the game promotes you.

edit: that 3 stalker build sounds pretty risky. You basically have 30 seconds to find his probe or forward pylon and kill it or you're done.

Also this guy makes me laugh so much:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsu9jWSVAGc&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4sxguMfo1s[/ame]


----------



## poroboszcz

Hey, is there any kind of a SC2 related phone application you guys would like to see? I'm doing an Android programming module at the moment and as a coursework I have to create an application of my choice. I obviously thought about something SC2 related, but I'm not quite sure what to do yet. If you have any good ideas let me know. Thanks









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12416757*
> Also this guy makes me laugh so much:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsu9jWSVAGc&feature=player_embedded
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4sxguMfo1s


Yea, I posted about him some pages back. Even got him as friend on battle.net.







It's pretty obvious it's KiWiKaKi though. I've watched a lot of Kiwi games and then seen some of Athene's and, apart from the strategies being very similar (eg. mothership play in PvZ), even their matchup specific building placement is identical.


----------



## DoomDash

Someone explain that AhteneWins guy a some more to me.

Also, where have I seen this girlfriend before? I know I've seen that girl before... and shes pretty hawt.


----------



## rhed5

Idra, just play more and you'll be in diamond. I remember playing against you and thinking this guy is way better than plat. Hangout in the overclock.net channel if you need some custom games. There's a bunch of guys always there after 5PM ET.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12418660*
> Hey, is there any kind of a SC2 related phone application you guys would like to see? I'm doing an Android programming module at the moment and as a coursework I have to create an application of my choice. I obviously thought about something SC2 related, but I'm not quite sure what to do yet. If you have any good ideas let me know. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Will that app be connected to the internet or not?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12418718*
> Someone explain that AhteneWins guy a some more to me.
> 
> Also, where have I seen this girlfriend before? I know I've seen that girl before... and shes pretty hawt.


I'm not sure. It sounds like he's half powergamer (achievement whore) half troll. In one of those 2 videos he lists his achievements (dunno which are legit though).

This is the girl's youtube page:
http://www.youtube.com/TaniaUncensored
Dunno who she is though.


----------



## DoomDash

Oh yes, she used to give tips on getting hot girls.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12418780*
> Will that app be connected to the internet or not?


Yea, it can be.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12418899*
> Yea, it can be.


Mmh... well you could make an app to track your stats but that's a bit stupid since everyone probably checks their own stats after each game session.

The only interesting thing I can think of is a tournament tracker like TL's (I'm sure plenty of people miss tournament deadlines) or a stream tracker to tell you when your favorite streams are online.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12418718*
> Someone explain that AhteneWins guy a some more to me.


Far as I know, he was some WoW player who was the first to get to level 60, 70 and 80 or whatever the caps were. Best paladin I think? yks would know more about this than I do


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12418718*
> Someone explain that AhteneWins guy a some more to me.


He is a person who does whatever he said he was going to do.

First person to hit the level caps in TBC, WOTLK, and Cata.
Got rank 1 in all 3 battlegroups on the "hardest battlegroup" in europe.

Made like 700k (euros?) but yeah, 700,000$ in Poker (in less than a year).
Broke a whole bunch of online poker records for most-hands played, tables joined, and money earned (or something like that) and pretty good event finishes.
Got signed to the PokerStars team from his online performance alone (i think)

And now is aiming for SC2 World Rank 1.

Ontop of doing all that, making the best troll videos ever, because his IRL personality is not really like that.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Does anybody else think hellions should cost 125 minerals? IMO it simply isn't fair to give a race a unit that is super effective at killing workers AND cheap enough to send on suicide runs. The current 100 min. price is ridiculous considering terrans always have astronomical mineral production because of their mules. 100 min. is nothing for terrans. A hellion priced at 100 min. is like a 60 or 70 mineral price for any other race. Hellion is too damn cheap for what it does. It ought to be expensive enough that terrans shouldn't be able to throw them away on suicide missions without any penalty.


----------



## yks

Inside info says Blizzard will be announcing something BIG soon.

You heard it here first.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12420035*
> Does anybody else think hellions should cost 125 minerals? IMO it simply isn't fair to give a race a unit that is super effective at killing workers AND cheap enough to send on suicide runs. The current 100 min. price is ridiculous considering terrans always have astronomical mineral production because of their mules. 100 min. is nothing for terrans. A hellion priced at 100 min. is like a 60 or 70 mineral price for any other race. Hellion is too damn cheap for what it does. It ought to be expensive enough that terrans shouldn't be able to throw them away on suicide missions without any penalty.


I think 100 minerals is fine.
25 gas would be nice.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


25 gas would be nice.


This is madness...









good thing i'm not planning on playing T anymore.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12420035*
> Does anybody else think hellions should cost 125 minerals? IMO it simply isn't fair to give a race a unit that is super effective at killing workers AND cheap enough to send on suicide runs. The current 100 min. price is ridiculous considering terrans always have astronomical mineral production because of their mules. 100 min. is nothing for terrans. A hellion priced at 100 min. is like a 60 or 70 mineral price for any other race. Hellion is too damn cheap for what it does. It ought to be expensive enough that terrans shouldn't be able to throw them away on suicide missions without any penalty.


75 mins 25 gas would be good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12420074*
> Inside info says Blizzard will be announcing something BIG soon.
> 
> You heard it here first.


www.NASL.TV and Blizzard is sponsoring.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think 100 minerals is fine.
25 gas would be nice.


That might be be good enough. I don't mind terrans having a unit with hellion's capability, but I want terrans to feel more pain when they send a ball of 5 hellions into my mineral line on a suicide run. Right now 90% of the pain is on the zerg side.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I think 100 minerals is fine.
25 gas would be nice.


I dunno, only reason i say that is because the idea is to have one unit from each structure only costing minerals(marines, hellions, vikings, etc....) and making them require 25 gas would break that, however, maybe increase mineral price up. With blue flame upgrade, they are pretty fast at wiping out your workers :/


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I dunno, only reason i say that is because the idea is to have one unit from each structure only costing minerals(marines, hellions, vikings, etc....) and making them require 25 gas would break that, however, maybe increase mineral price up. With blue flame upgrade, they are pretty fast at wiping out your workers :/


wat

Vikings cost gas.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


wat

Vikings cost gas.


oops, they do XD nm then, I think they mostly wanted to keep a unit in the rax and factory, thus the marine and hellion/vulture from BW


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12420396*
> oops, they do XD nm then, I think they mostly wanted to keep a unit in the rax and factory, thus the marine and hellion/vulture from BW


That's a really stupid reason.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12420417*
> That's a really stupid reason.


It might be, but, can anyone say more options for mineral dump?


----------



## DoomDash

Hellions are fine.


----------



## rhed5

Hellions are awesome, and are underused IMO. Aren't they the only splash damage unit in the game that doesn't cost gas? Vultuers in BW were even better, cost no gas, I think they were 75 or 100, and had 3 mines.


----------



## DoomDash

Vultures <3.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Hellions are awesome, and are underused IMO. Aren't they the only splash damage unit in the game that doesn't cost gas? Vultuers in BW were even better, cost no gas, I think they were 75 or 100, and had 3 mines.


I believe you had to research the mines though, although, i guess that's akin to the blue flame upgrade


----------



## DoomDash

I'll take mines over blue flame anyday. Same with Vultures.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Does anybody else think hellions should cost 125 minerals? IMO it simply isn't fair to give a race a unit that is super effective at killing workers AND cheap enough to send on suicide runs. The current 100 min. price is ridiculous considering terrans always have astronomical mineral production because of their mules. 100 min. is nothing for terrans. A hellion priced at 100 min. is like a 60 or 70 mineral price for any other race. Hellion is too damn cheap for what it does. It ought to be expensive enough that terrans shouldn't be able to throw them away on suicide missions without any penalty.


Helions are way overrated. Most good players can shut down helion play so easily. Queen + 1 or 2 spine crawlers shuts down harassment at the natural. Queen/roaches/speedlings blocking ramp shuts down any run-by.

If the Terran makes helions, he is making less tanks, allowing you to maul him down if you don't let the helions do too much damage to you.

When I play Protoss, I have almost no trouble against helions. Stalkers shut them down so easily and I spread out my pylons so that I have early notice of any drop play.


----------



## Nevaziah

Hellions are more used vs zerg. Ive been practicing Mech army builds with terran and I find that 2 factories (1 with reactor, 1 with tech lab) can constantly pump out units on 2 bases and successfuly sink mineral into blue flame hellions, vs the super marine ball. And the hellions will be a LOT less vulnerable because of their speed and the lack of pwnabiliy to banelings that marines have.

They are also easier EVEN against toss sometimes to drop 4 on a mineral line, clean up and fly away before the opponent can do anything, and then have those 4 hellions join the main army and push wtih the thors and tanks. Very solid vs zerg, against toss, they can be great against heavy zealots armies

NOTE: Watch day9 daily 256 - funday monday mass queens part1 and part 2. This is what I am testing with zerg and it works GREAT vs terran AND protoss, no matter what they go for. Its soo great to be able to macro up a great drone count and be safe knowing you can defend vs anything AND that you can easily see things coming with the mass goopage of map..


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Helions are way overrated. Most good players can shut down helion play so easily. Queen + 1 or 2 spine crawlers shuts down harassment at the natural. Queen/roaches/speedlings blocking ramp shuts down any run-by.

If the Terran makes helions, he is making less tanks, allowing you to maul him down if you don't let the helions do too much damage to you.

When I play Protoss, I have almost no trouble against helions. Stalkers shut them down so easily and I spread out my pylons so that I have early notice of any drop play.


Queen + 1 or 2 spines does NOT shut down hellions. The common tactic now is to get a ball of about 5 hellions and suicide them into mineral lines. The hellions get killed off but not before they kill enough drones to cripple the zerg economy. It's almost always a good trade for the terran player unless he has horrible micro skills. Zerg doesn't recover well at all after losing a lot of workers early.


----------



## roberT_

blue flame hellion drop owns in team games... hellion base hopping wins games


----------



## rhed5

The trick is to catch the zerg off guard. Hide helions as long as possible, then pop up with 5-6 with blueflame; forces zerg to panic , to make stuff whether crawlers or units from larvae, kill off many many drones, delay tech further. Generally 1 queen + a spine doesn't scare me, you either need banelings or roaches, or an overwhelming amount of speedlings + fantastic micro when terran overextends.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


The *gimmick* is to catch the zerg off guard. Hide helions as long as possible, then pop up with 5-6 with blueflame; forces zerg to panic , to make stuff whether crawlers or units from larvae, kill off many many drones, delay tech further. Generally 1 queen + a spine doesn't scare me, you either need banelings or roaches, or an overwhelming amount of speedlings + fantastic micro when terran overextends.


fixed.

Also queens and 1-2 spines does shut down hellions. 3 on maps like xelnaga.


----------



## Idra

I swear some of these high ranked people BOUGHT their accounts or something. Or rank just isn't an accurate measurement of skill...

I was playing on my friend's account (Gold League) and for some reason, in 1v1 ladder, they matched a GOLD LEAGUE player against a 2700 point Diamond.

The Diamond goes for an early pool and because I scouted it, I went forge first and made some cannons. I forgot to seal off my choke completely but I held it anyway because his zergling micro really sucked.

The game then went into macro, with me obviously in the lead because I didn't try a stupid all-in cheese. I harassed him with phoenix all game and contained his creep spread with observers. I had base advantage, worker advantage, and army advantage. It was almost like I was toying with him at this point. He then tries to attack my gold expansion as it gets up and he gets destroyed. He engaged my 200/200 protoss army OFF-CREEP at a choke-point when he had hydralisks and I had a colossus (although it didn't have thermal lance yet but he didn't know that) out.

He then goes to cry "PROTOSS NEEDS NERF."

Lol.. did he expect to come back from a 6 pool in which he pulled half of his drones?

Replay here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


NOTE: Watch day9 daily 256


link? all I see on youtube when I search for it are like 3-4 min pre-dailies...


----------



## DoomDash

You can get into Diamond cheesing ... plus most of Diamond is not that good anyway.


----------



## Idra

I want to make a new SC2 account that ONLY does 6 pool. I wanna see how far it gets me, with all large maps thumbed down. It'd probably be enough to get me into masters seeing as how effective cheeses are. Even the best fall for them; look at Idra... and I'm not even his fan. I love watching him get cheesed but cheese-play is stupid. It takes all of the intelligence and dynamics out of this great game as someone just does the same cheese build over and over, again.


----------



## DoomDash

Cheese / all-ins are powerful right now, especially vs Zerg.


----------



## Idra

Zerg also has the most effective cheeses/openings, IMO.

Roach Push
6 Pool
Baneling Bust


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but if you try to play standard you are way more prone to cheese trying to drone up than Terran / Protoss.


----------



## rhed5

We get you're playing against "high ranked" people and that they are cheesing, so what?That is the beauty of the game. The nature of ladder means you meet people doing so many different type of strategys and bringing their own playstyle. If they are ranked 2000 diamond or whatever doing 1 strat, all the credit to them. Eventually you end up hitting a wall, and expanding your horizons, and that is how you improve.


----------



## Idra

Hm, fair enough.

To be honest, I'd rather face a cheesing 3000+ Master than Jediwin. At least when against the cheeser, if I perfectly predict his cheese, I win. Against Jediwin, I lose no matter what.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


We get you're playing against "high ranked" people and that they are cheesing, so what?That is the beauty of the game. The nature of ladder means you meet people doing so many different type of strategys and bringing their own playstyle. If they are ranked 2000 diamond or whatever doing 1 strat, all the credit to them. Eventually you end up hitting a wall, and expanding your horizons, and that is how you improve.


He speaks from personal experience of others.
















Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Hm, fair enough.

To be honest, I'd rather face a cheesing 3000+ Master than Jediwin. At least when against the cheeser, if I perfectly predict his cheese, I win. Against Jediwin, I lose no matter what.










You just have to play Jedi TvP to win sometimes.

or temple TvZ

TvT he will still wins from you every time.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Zerg also has the most effective cheeses/openings, IMO.

Roach Push
6 Pool
Baneling Bust


I don't really consider bane bust cheese, nor do I consider RR since both can easily be scouted.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I don't really consider bane bust cheese, nor do I consider RR since both can easily be scouted.


I consider bane bust cheese.. because to live you have to do this:


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He speaks from personal experience of others.

















this man speaks the truth


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I consider bane bust cheese.. because to live you have to do this:











Wow. Who won that game? Doesn't seem like there's much firepower behind those barricades.


----------



## DoomDash

bLur did, but he would have lost I think if the banes went to the right instead of the left. He barely lived that attack.

Also it was a proxy bane nest using the hatch cancel trick.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He speaks from personal experience of others.
















You just have to play Jedi TvP to win sometimes.

or temple *TvZ*

TvT he will still wins from you every time.


Interesting that you mention that TvsZ on temple because that's what we played. Given I was more concerned with trying to nuke and constantly drop his bases than winning







Not to mention that failed bunker rush at the start XD


----------



## DoomDash

I just noticed my TvT comment is supposed to be *steal*.

I really hate nukes in this game.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


link? all I see on youtube when I search for it are like 3-4 min pre-dailies...










www.day9tv.blip.tv

You can get almost all his dailies there...

I would recommend also watching 257 and 252 on game mechanics. I havent watched 261 but its on mechanics aswell.


----------



## DoomDash

232 best ep.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I don't really consider bane bust cheese, nor do I consider RR since both can easily be scouted.


By definition a cheese is a strat that fails when scouted early enough....


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


232 best ep.


OGSMC vs LiquidRet? I dont remember what that was about (im at work and bandwidth is weak). Refresh my memory?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


OGSMC vs LiquidRet? I dont remember what that was about (im at work and bandwidth is weak). Refresh my memory?


er, 132%***


----------



## Ruckol1

I liked one of his this week, I think it was Tuesday's. The story about his accidentally going on a date, and his girlfriend who ruined gg for him by always typing it as g.g.


----------



## DoomDash

http://team.razerzone.com/slayersboxer/


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://team.razerzone.com/slayersboxer/


Gets countered by: http://www.fatal1ty.com/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Gets countered by: http://www.fatal1ty.com/


I want to see Fatal1ty play SCII







.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I just don't understand gamer branding. "Look, this guy is awesome at game X! His logo is on your power supply! Now you are good at game X!"

BTW, I like lurking this thread for tips on improving my gameplay. I'm only in silver, but since I learned Doom's 2 rax expand 2 factory into thor against zerg and found the "How to Terran Macro" I haven't lost against them. I've managed to go 17W/7L in my past 24 games, and I really appreciate this thread for helping with that.


----------



## yks

My stats from Feb 2nd to Feb 17th:

15 days: 166games of 1v1 (not counting 2v2,4v4,3v3)

51-24 PVP (71% win-rate)
19-31 PVZ (38% win-rate)
15-24 PVT (38% win-rate)

In other words, I'm just a big-fat newbie who can only fight 4gate vs 4gate cause my micro is a little bit better than theirs in PVP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I just don't understand gamer branding. "Look, this guy is awesome at game X! His logo is on your power supply! Now you are good at game X!"

BTW, I like lurking this thread for tips on improving my gameplay. I'm only in silver, but since I learned Doom's 2 rax expand 2 factory into thor against zerg and found the "How to Terran Macro" I haven't lost against them. I've managed to go 17W/7L in my past 24 games, and I really appreciate this thread for helping with that.


I like your SN. Glad my build could help u out a little.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I like your SN. Glad my build could help u out a little.










Your in master league!

I just got into silver









Edit: here is my profile

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1314326/1/Glorify/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*









Your in master league!

I just got into silver










of course I am, I am awesome.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I just don't understand gamer branding. "Look, this guy is awesome at game X! His logo is on your power supply! Now you are good at game X!"

BTW, I like lurking this thread for tips on improving my gameplay. I'm only in silver, but since I learned Doom's 2 rax expand 2 factory into thor against zerg and found the "How to Terran Macro" I haven't lost against them. I've managed to go 17W/7L in my past 24 games, and I really appreciate this thread for helping with that.


I don't understand it either, but, to each his own








That battle.net is pretty good. I read it a while ago, decently informative and he does a good job of explaining a lot of things









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*









Your in master league!

I just got into silver









Edit: here is my profile

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1314326/1/Glorify/


A decent portion of those on here are in diamond/masters. I mean just look at yks's 1vs1 games played: 
15 days: *166*games of 1v1 (not counting 2v2,4v4,3v3)
I have a little bit more than that in 1vs1 in 5-6 months XD


----------



## DoomDash

I don't care about the branding for players, but sponsering is cool for us ( and e-sports ).


----------



## BigFan

Should've mentioned in my previous post, if anyone is on and plays Z, I'm interested in a game







I don't mind playing any levels either even if it means I get creamed XD


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Should've mentioned in my previous post, if anyone is on and plays Z, I'm interested in a game







I don't mind playing any levels either even if it means I get creamed XD


Me too, I played Z! What league are you in?


----------



## DoomDash

He is silver.

What match up BigFan?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Me too, I played Z! What league are you in?


I was exclusively Z, but, I made the switch to random. Silver atm, but, would've likely moved up if not for the switch and for my funny gameplay XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He is silver.

What match up BigFan?


TvsZ as in I'm T. Need to work on the 2 rax FE and the early harass. I would say my marine micro is up to par now so I'm good there


----------



## DoomDash

I can play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I can play.


Sure


----------



## Ruckol1

You guys be in the overclock.net channel? I wouldn't mind Doom playing a custom against me or taking a look @ some of my replays and letting me know what to improve on.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I added myself to the Overclock.net Division Rankings. I'm KittenMewMew- one too few characters in the name to have the s.

I think I've played against BigFan a few times.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I added myself to the Overclock.net Division Rankings. I'm KittenMewMew- one too few characters in the name to have the s.

I think I've played against BigFan a few times.


hmm, not positive tbh. I've played against most on here but don't believe we've played against each other yet, I could be wrong though


----------



## thiru

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14646-heart-of-the-swarm-to-have-separate-ladder

What. The. ****.

GG Activision.

That's the most ******ed thing you could do. Freaking ******ed.


----------



## Idra

Found the funniest clip of Idra, ever.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlc0S8LLtsg[/ame]

And after that moment of embarassment, he BMed 300 terrans to make up for the bruised ego.


----------



## Idra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12426950*
> http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14646-heart-of-the-swarm-to-have-separate-ladder
> 
> What. The. ****.
> 
> GG Activision.
> 
> That's the most ******ed thing you could do. Freaking ******ed.


Sigh, that's just the Activision part of Activision Blizzard kicking in.

Three different ladders? That's just stupid.

If they would only release ONE expansion.. or at least release them far from each other (WOL was released in 7/10), then it'd be tolerable.

But they expect us to shell out another $120 just to be able to play with the primary community? All of the pros and hardcore players will obviously get the latest expansion.

The community will be fractured really badly and WOL will just be a bunch of casual gamers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12426950*
> http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/14646-heart-of-the-swarm-to-have-separate-ladder
> 
> What. The. ****.
> 
> GG Activision.
> 
> That's the most ******ed thing you could do. Freaking ******ed.


Always been like this. No surprise.

SC was different than BW, WCIII expos, ect. Has nothing to Activision.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12427413*
> Always been like this. No surprise.
> 
> SC was different than BW, WCIII expos, ect. *Has nothing to do with Activision*.


This.

And if you actually read the article listed, he said they'll be releasing these new maps over the coming weeks. Doesn't quite sound like he's going "HotS ONLY LOLOLOLOLROFLYOUSUCK" is it? Give them a break.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12427413*
> Always been like this. No surprise.
> 
> SC was different than BW, WCIII expos, ect. Has nothing to Activision.


There are lots of differences.

BW was out for SC1 before the year was over, and they balanced that. Nobody plays SC1 so it doesn't matter. There wasn't much of a competitive scene at the time so it didn't matter.

There are 2 expansions planned. That's 3 ladders. That's 3 games to balance because there are up to 2 years between each game. They can't even balance 1 game. They only have 2 guys working on balance FFS. What if one ladder is easier for one race? what if a team or organization like GSL stays on 1 ladder?

They don't even know what they're going to do with the MP, admitting that adding 1 unit per race per expansion is stupid, but they're already announcing that the ladders will be separate? what the hell is the point of a different ladder if there's no difference then?

Do I even need to talk about the separation of the community? This isn't 1998, I bet you that each expansion will cost at least $50. That's $160 if you want to keep up with the game, that's insane.

@admiral thrawn: the new maps have nothing to do with this. Those maps were already in the PTR.


----------



## Idra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12427692*
> There are lots of differences.
> 
> BW was out for SC1 before the year was over, and they balanced that. Nobody plays SC1 so it doesn't matter. There wasn't much of a competitive scene at the time so it didn't matter.
> 
> There are 2 expansions planned. That's 3 ladders. That's 3 games to balance because there are up to 2 years between each game. They can't even balance 1 game. They only have 2 guys working on balance FFS. What if one ladder is easier for one race? what if a team or organization like GSL stays on 1 ladder?
> 
> They don't even know what they're going to do with the MP, admitting that adding 1 unit per race per expansion is stupid, but they're already announcing that the ladders will be separate? what the hell is the point of a different ladder if there's no difference then?
> 
> Do I even need to talk about the separation of the community? This isn't 1998, I bet you that each expansion will cost at least $50. That's $160 if you want to keep up with the game, that's insane.
> 
> @admiral thrawn: the new maps have nothing to do with this. Those maps were already in the PTR.


This. Its an unnecessary implementation that will only serve their purpose of forcing more people to buy the new expansions.

Many people bought this game, thinking that it was the only game they needed for the full multiplayer experience.


----------



## KittensMewMew

They need to release the new campaigns in a more DLC-style rather than standalone expansions that basically rebuild the game and community from the ground up.

If they released two new separate campaigns at $30- HotS and the protoss campaign- and left online content alone (just adding maps as they build/balance them) they would see a lot of profit while letting people stay where they are on ladder and not feel screwed over when they have to re-rank.

I think the reason they are going to do this is to force you to buy the expansions. Starcraft 2 has a fairly huge regular playerbase that requires servers and their minions that maintain those servers. By forcing you to buy the expansions to keep playing with the main group of people they offset those costs.

Just be glad there isn't a Battle.net "subscription fee". These expansions are basically it.


----------



## Idra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12428207*
> They need to release the new campaigns in a more DLC-style rather than standalone expansions that basically rebuild the game and community from the ground up.
> 
> If they released two new separate campaigns at $30- HotS and the protoss campaign- and left online content alone (just adding maps as they build/balance them) they would see a lot of profit while letting people stay where they are on ladder and not feel screwed over when they have to re-rank.
> 
> I think the reason they are going to do this is to force you to buy the expansions. Starcraft 2 has a fairly huge regular playerbase that requires servers and their minions that maintain those servers. By forcing you to buy the expansions to keep playing with the main group of people they offset those costs.
> 
> Just be glad there isn't a Battle.net "subscription fee". These expansions are basically it.


Battle.net subscription fee? Have you noticed that there are ads on Starcraft 2?

Plus, the server hosting cost argument is so juvenile. What "minions"? They're not using manpower to power the servers by having people peddle on stationary bikes.

Subscription fees are not necessary at all and would just be greedy of them.

Guild Wars is an MMORPG that has subscription fees. Yet, their servers are almost always up and running great. From time to time, they just come out with really cheap expansions (much less than the full $60 that SC2 expansions will cost).

Heroes of Newerth only costs one payment of $30 (or less if you bough it during the sale). No subscription fees or any BS expansions.

Every Total War game.

---

And if they really want to charge a subscription fee, then give us the option to play LAN. Otherwise, there will be lawsuits. Nowhere did it say, when we bought the game, that a subscription was needed to play multiplayer.


----------



## DoomDash

I think you guys are just nitpicking. Anyone who cares about SCII will get the expansion and get their money's worth. Anyone casual enough to not get HoTS will not give a **** if Blizzard doesn't care about SCII original ladder because they will never notice to begin with.

Like who isn't going to get LOD for Diablo II? No one I care about.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12428207*
> They need to release the new campaigns in a more DLC-style rather than standalone expansions that basically rebuild the game and community from the ground up.
> 
> If they released two new separate campaigns at $30- HotS and the protoss campaign- and left online content alone (just adding maps as they build/balance them) they would see a lot of profit while letting people stay where they are on ladder and not feel screwed over when they have to re-rank.
> 
> I think the reason they are going to do this is to force you to buy the expansions. Starcraft 2 has a fairly huge regular playerbase that requires servers and their minions that maintain those servers. By forcing you to buy the expansions to keep playing with the main group of people they offset those costs.
> 
> Just be glad there isn't a Battle.net "subscription fee". These expansions are basically it.


I'd almost be more concerned with a spread out ladder and unbalanced races then $5 a month or something.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12428352*
> I think you guys are just nitpicking. Anyone who cares about SCII will get the expansion and get their money's worth. Anyone casual enough to not get HoTS will not give a **** if Blizzard doesn't care about SCII original ladder because they will never notice to begin with.
> 
> Like who isn't going to get LOD for Diablo II? No one I care about.


No, I won't be getting my money's worth considering I don't give a damn about the campaign (which tbh, sucks). Right now they have _nothing_ concrete planned for the multiplayer, going so far as to say they don't even think they'll add units, yet they already decided that they would make separate ladders and charge us for it. Not worth $50.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12428505*
> No, I won't be getting my money's worth considering I don't give a damn about the campaign (which tbh, sucks). Right now they have _nothing_ concrete planned for the multiplayer, going so far as to say they don't even think they'll add units, yet they already decided that they would make separate ladders and charge us for it. Not worth $50.


OK, this is proving my point. $50 isn't worth it to you, don't buy it.

I'm getting my $50 worth.... so its fine to me. I won't feel sorry for you because you aren't getting all the features I have, because you didn't feel those features were worth it to you.

If you think its not worth don't buy it... but then don't complain about not getting all the features.


----------



## Idra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12428505*
> No, I won't be getting my money's worth considering I don't give a damn about the campaign (which tbh, sucks). Right now they have _nothing_ concrete planned for the multiplayer, going so far as to say they don't even think they'll add units, yet they already decided that they would make separate ladders and charge us for it. Not worth $50.


Not to mention, it'd be a lot harder to get friends to get the game when they have to shell out $100-$120 (depending where you buy it and if you're paying tax or not) instantly, to play with you.


----------



## yks

I don't see what the big deal is. Blizzard has ALWAYS, ALWAYS done this.

SC2 -> BW: You get new campaign, new units, new ladder
D2 -> LOD: 2 New Classes, New ladder
WC3 -> TFT: New ladder, New Heroes, New Campaign

Another 50$ to participate in the current ladder? Sounds normal to me. They wont upkeep Wings of Liberty ladder, it'll stay up and online, but they won't add new patches, it'll stay as it was before HotS.

The thing is: no one will be playing WOL ladder when HOTS ladder comes out, it's ALWAYS been like this.

No one played WC3 ROC ladder when TFT came out, ROC was up, but hardly anyone played it and it was never patched again except for bug fixes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12428351*
> Battle.net subscription fee? Have you noticed that there are ads on Starcraft 2?
> 
> Plus, the server hosting cost argument is so juvenile. What "minions"? They're not using manpower to power the servers by having people peddle on stationary bikes.
> 
> Subscription fees are not necessary at all and would just be greedy of them.
> 
> Guild Wars is an MMORPG that has subscription fees. Yet, their servers are almost always up and running great. From time to time, they just come out with really cheap expansions (much less than the full $60 that SC2 expansions will cost).
> 
> Heroes of Newerth only costs one payment of $30 (or less if you bough it during the sale). No subscription fees or any BS expansions.
> 
> Every Total War game.
> 
> ---
> 
> And if they really want to charge a subscription fee, then give us the option to play LAN. Otherwise, there will be lawsuits. Nowhere did it say, when we bought the game, that a subscription was needed to play multiplayer.


I don't recall any ads on SCII but again I'm not looking for them either







I would still think servers need maintenance, but, don't know costs enough to be able to comment








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12428352*
> I think you guys are just nitpicking. Anyone who cares about SCII will get the expansion and get their money's worth. Anyone casual enough to not get HoTS will not give a **** if Blizzard doesn't care about SCII original ladder because they will never notice to begin with.
> 
> Like who isn't going to get LOD for Diablo II? No one I care about.


Pretty much true, same with yks's comment. It's always been like this. I can't say that I played MP in previous blizzard games before and after exp but it makes sense. Those who are interested in SCII and plan to continue laddering, etc.... will buy the exps to get the new units, story, etc.... Those who don't think it's worth it/rather just stick to WoL, they'll still play on the ladder using the old units. It would be odd if Blizzard released an exp to add to the story and then added units in patches, because, they've never done it that way before and likely won't this time around


----------



## DoomDash

I've never seen ads on bnet 2.0.


----------



## Idra

Look at the announcements. They always have ads for products from sponsors, usually in the form of Razer products such as the Razer Marauder keyboard.


----------



## DoomDash

That's not really an ad, and it's completely avoidable.


----------



## Coldharbour

quit trolling


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2...eparate-ladder

What. The. ****.

GG Activision.

That's the most ******ed thing you could do. Freaking ******ed.


What's bad about that? I buy a new game and I get a new ladder with it so I can actually play on two separate ladders, for example as different races. Awesome. It wouldn't be fair the other way around imo, if you only get SP campaign with the expansion and no new MP stuff.

I can totally see some new whining coming with the new ladder though: "You noob <insert any new/changed unit here> abuser. I'd totally own you in WoL!11".


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think you guys are just nitpicking. Anyone who cares about SCII will get the expansion and get their money's worth. Anyone casual enough to not get HoTS will not give a **** if Blizzard doesn't care about SCII original ladder because they will never notice to begin with.

Like who isn't going to get LOD for Diablo II? No one I care about.


I have to agree once again with Dash on this one. Even in Starcraft 1, there were people who stayed on the main one, but even the competitive scene moved to Brood War at some point didnt they? Even when Day9 or Husky or HD speak of starcraft 1, they dont say starcraft1 do they? They say Brood War. For the first little bit, they will stay on WOL, but eventually, everyone moves. I have never played a game with expansions where the vast majority of players stayed on the original game. Never. I dont think you will find an example.

If you play SC2 for the multiplayer experience, you will buy it later maybe, when its discounted in a few months after release AND you will benefit from the first few balancing patches they will release between release date and price drop or you can wait a few more months when the pro scene moves to the new ladder, because I can bet to a 100% degree that they will move to the new expansions, the question is how fast...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Coldharbour*


quit trolling


Welcome back Trollharbour


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Can we move back to the balance of the game or pro gaming circuit instead of rable rable rable activision rable.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Can we move back to the balance of the game or pro gaming circuit instead of rable rable rable activision rable.


Intel is now sponsoring the GSL. That cool?


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Can we move back to the balance of the game or pro gaming circuit instead of rable rable rable activision rable.


Im down for that, exept I dont really know what is happening for sure in teh pro circuit.

Wasnt Intel always there? They did Intel cups and stuff like that no?


----------



## Ruckol1

I don't really know what rable rable rable is either


----------



## DoomDash

I get to play ROOTDdoro


----------



## yks

micro micro micro.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12436160*
> I get to play ROOTDdoro


Cool, when is that?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12436408*
> micro micro micro.


Oh, that's why you're only good in PvP.


----------



## Ruckol1

Cool Doom! Maybe you will be casted, what tournament is this? Invitational?


----------



## thiru

Cool
What is that?


----------



## DoomDash

http://sc2combat.com/showthread.php?tid=28&pid=73#pid73

New site, cash prizes for all levels. I know the admin from SCC. Finals will be casted I think.

It's tonight in 3 hours.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12436835*
> http://sc2combat.com/showthread.php?tid=28&pid=73#pid73
> 
> New site, cash prizes for all levels. I know the admin from SCC. Finals will be casted I think.
> 
> It's tonight in 3 hours.


Nice, good luck in the tourney


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12436835*
> http://sc2combat.com/showthread.php?tid=28&pid=73#pid73
> 
> New site, cash prizes for all levels. I know the admin from SCC. Finals will be casted I think.
> 
> It's tonight in 3 hours.


Think it's to late to sign up? Dang Bronze and silver have their own division, I should have stayed in silver!


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks. Thinking of marine scv rushing ddoro :/. jedi's friend did it to cory yesterday and it looks pretty sick lol.


----------



## Ruckol1

Is it BO3 or single elim


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12436959*
> Is it BO3 or single elim


It's round robin. So you play everyone in the bracket you are in once, and the 2 to win the most games advance.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12436978*
> It's round robin. So you play everyone in the bracket you are in once, and the 2 to win the most games advance.


Oh right I see that now. Well goodluck! Maybe you should switch to Z in the lobby right before you start the game


----------



## DoomDash

New QXC interview:
http://www.fragster.de/de/esport/coverages/assembly-lan/winter-2011/artikel/assembly-winter-qxc-interview-english.html

notables:
Quote:


> *Let's talk about about StarCraft 2. Are you happy with the recent patch so far?*
> 
> qxc: I don't think the recent patch changed anything very significant. The only thing right now that feels broken to me in terms of Terran matchups is when Protoss starts massing High Templar - they actually know how to spread them out and you can't get them all with one EMP. And then they start making Collossus. I have not figured out a good way to attack that. It seems incredibly difficult to deal with. The Protoss base gets to a point where you can't really harass him because of Warp-Ins and you also can't really attack them. If Protoss didn't harass you at all you could probably make the attack work, but because of Warp-Ins at different parts on the map you have to figure out how to attack them and also to defend two different sides on the map and that's a very difficult situation to be in. In general the balance seems ok, maybe Marine-Tank is a little too strong in TvT and TvZ but I think that, maybe as we see Zergs using more Baneling landmines and more Infestors, the balance could sort itself out.
> 
> *More and more Terran players are trying out mech versus Protoss. Have you tried it out or are you the player that sticks to bio-mech?*
> 
> qxc: I've tried it out and I always lose. I hate it. I hate mech so much. All I can think about when I'm playing a mech strategy is all the different ways that the Protoss can just kill me. Whether it's massing Immortals because they do really well against Siege Tanks or turtling and massing Carriers or going Blink Stalkers and harassing. I played mech in Broodwar against Protoss because you couldn't go bio. I'm trying to look more on the bio-mech but I'm not really the player who will be going on hardcore mech. I think if Stalkers didn't have Blink or Colossus didn't have Cliffwalk I would consider it. Just because then you could harass with Hellions a little bit easier - but it would be a very hard time actually making that work against a better Protoss.


I agree with all this.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12437544*
> New QXC interview:
> http://www.fragster.de/de/esport/coverages/assembly-lan/winter-2011/artikel/assembly-winter-qxc-interview-english.html
> 
> notables:
> I agree with all this.


So he whines that protoss doesn't clump their HTs so he can neutralize them with ONE EMP and that sticking to T1 units for the whole game against protoss two T3 tech trees doesn't seem to work. Yea, even pros do that.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Hellion is broken. I'm sick to death of abusive hellion crap in the early game in TvZ. Hellions are WAY too cheap for what they do.


----------



## poroboszcz

Love them zerg's tears.


----------



## Ruckol1

I don't like fighting MMM. Even tanks, in fact I just don't like playing T.


----------



## consume

Does anyone know HOW to get out of 2v2 bronze league? I'm in gold everything (except 2v2 random, 2v2 gold with a friend) and honestly, the people there MUST have some type of mental issues (i know what you're thinking, then why are you there? Well, i tried cannon cheeseing every game to see where that would get it). I outproduce everyone ALWAYS, and it always becomes a 2v1 because my teammate is always terrible. Just now, at the 10 minute mark, my terran teammate (i randomed as zerg) had FIVE MARINES and ONE MARAUDER. I lose all my lings (was teching to muta), he says gg before its EVEN OVER and then leaves. At this point, i had 3 expos and as they were raping his base, i atleast tried to trade bases by takeing out their workers, it kept me in the game for about 5 more minutes but seriously there's nothing i can do against TWO players (even if they are bronze and spamming marines/stalkers).

I should totally upload the replay...just so you can see how horrible he was..


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *consume;12438905*
> Does anyone know HOW to get out of 2v2 bronze league? I'm in gold everything (except 2v2 random, 2v2 gold with a friend) and honestly, the people there MUST have some type of mental issues (i know what you're thinking, then why are you there? Well, i tried cannon cheeseing every game to see where that would get it). I outproduce everyone ALWAYS, and it always becomes a 2v1 because my teammate is always terrible. Just now, at the 10 minute mark, my terran teammate (i randomed as zerg) had FIVE MARINES and ONE MARAUDER. I lose all my lings (was teching to muta), he says gg before its EVEN OVER and then leaves. At this point, i had 3 expos and as they were raping his base, i atleast tried to trade bases by takeing out their workers, it kept me in the game for about 5 more minutes but seriously there's nothing i can do against TWO players (even if they are bronze and spamming marines/stalkers).
> 
> I should totally upload the replay...just so you can see how horrible he was..


Get better at 1v1. Or tell your teammate to leave at 20 supply and rush.

If you think that's hard, try getting into diamond 4v4 random (with nobody).


----------



## consume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12439043*
> Get better at 1v1. Or tell your teammate to leave at 20 supply and rush.
> 
> If you think that's hard, try getting into diamond 4v4 random (with nobody).


That's probably a combination of good teammates/luck. lol. Me and a few friends won all 5 matches and still got put in gold :S

And i think i'd be platinum in 1v1 ladder if i still played it. I literally played a few games then played scrap station twice. Both times, two different zerg and as you know, it's impossible to wall off the ramp completely in time (and with the new patch, it requires one more structure)....i got 6 pooled twice. I honestly haven't played it since lol. I think i have like 3000 bonus points, haha.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *consume;12439223*
> That's probably a combination of good teammates/luck. lol. Me and a few friends won all 5 matches and still got put in gold :S
> 
> And i think i'd be platinum in 1v1 ladder if i still played it. I literally played a few games then played scrap station twice. Both times, two different zerg and as you know, it's impossible to wall off the ramp completely in time (and with the new patch, it requires one more structure)....i got 6 pooled twice. I honestly haven't played it since lol. I think i have like 3000 bonus points, haha.


... you shouldn't lose to a 6pool on scrap...


----------



## Idra

I've developed an obsession for blink stalkers. They're so fun to use!

Inspired by: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pETcAm82vXU[/ame]


----------



## thiru

When I was in bronze league I would use them almost exclusively. Didn't work very well against terrans.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*



















Love them zerg's tears.










I dont see these?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I've developed an obsession for blink stalkers. They're so fun to use!

Inspired by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pETcAm82vXU


can only take you so far, esp one basing plays.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12436926*
> Thanks. Thinking of marine scv rushing ddoro :/. jedi's friend did it to cory yesterday and it looks pretty sick lol.


You've never marine scv rushed before?







I thought you did it all the time on steppes against Z?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12438506*
> I don't like fighting MMM. Even tanks, in fact I just don't like playing T.


Slings+blings are the answer. Run in the slings, get a surround and then send in the blings targetting marines first. The slings will mop up the rest assuming anything survives the blings. Add in infestors to prevent kiting with FG later on if you are having trouble against MMM


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Looks pretty balanced.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*











looks pretty balanced.


rofl


----------



## Idra

I blink stalker micro just fine against terran until medivacs come in. Because then, they start spamming stim packs without any consequences.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I blink stalker micro just fine against terran until medivacs come in. Because then, they start spamming stim packs without any consequences.


A couple of feedbacks would take out those medivacs


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


A couple of feedbacks would take out those medivacs










Easier said than done. Getting blink and temps off 2 base is really risky. Even if you manage to feedback the medivacs imo it would be much better to storm; which happens to be very hard to get early on and leaves you extremely vulnerable to any kind of stimmed 2 base timing attack.

I think colossus are the best option vs Terran mid game. Early game Protoss has the advantage; it the early-mid game where Protoss is really weak. When Terran has stim and a medivac or 2 up against just one colossus w/o range it's usually gg just by 1 A + stim.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*











Looks pretty balanced.


haha ***, how many bases are you guys on at that point?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Easier said than done. Getting blink and temps off 2 base is really risky. Even if you manage to feedback the medivacs imo it would be much better to storm; which happens to be very hard to get early on and leaves you extremely vulnerable to any kind of stimmed 2 base timing attack.

I think colossus are the best option vs Terran mid game. Early game Protoss has the advantage; it the early-mid game where Protoss is really weak. When Terran has stim and a medivac or 2 up against just one colossus w/o range it's usually gg just by 1 A + stim.


True, I was mostly indicating that hts can help against medivacs if he decides to take that route and go for storm instead of colossi


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doomdash*


i dont see these?




















How did the tourney go?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*



















How did the tourney go?


Hahahaha

He got first place in his group, beating even Ddoro. Then lost his first game in the brackets.

Unfortunately it looks like Ddoro wasn't there. Would've been an interesting game for Doom.


----------



## Idra

If the terran player notices that you're using feedback a lot on his medivacs, he can just pre-stim his units to reduce the energy of his medivacs.

Unless your feedback is a guaranteed kill, its much better to reserve energy for storms.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


If the terran player notices that you're using feedback a lot on his medivacs, he can just pre-stim his units to reduce the energy of his medivacs.

Unless your feedback is a guaranteed kill, its much better to reserve energy for storms.


It's pretty much only a good idea in case of drops.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*











Looks pretty balanced.


Yeah, great balance. Let's keep hellions priced at 100 minerals. That's not too cheap.


----------



## DoomDash

I played my first game and quit because the tournament wasn't running well and I didn't get to play ROOTDdoRo.


----------



## Gigalisk

DUDE, i love owning Terrans...especially when they stand in my way of getting out of bronze league.


----------



## Idra

I've been opening with blink stalkers against MMM against Platinum to High Diamond players and it seems to work fine. Blink stalkers puts the pressure on the T. His medivac drops become as risky as if there were mutalisks on the field. Stim no longer lets him retreat easily. Stim no longer guarantees him the victory if I just blink back weakened stalkers.

Also, the pressure is on him if you get either hallucinations or observers to scout the high ground for your stalkers to blink in. Aim for stuff like reactors (which take forever to replace) and terran will know how it feels when marauders take out our buildings in half a second.

The riskiest part of this mass gateway strategy is during the researching of psionic storm. A timing attack before it finishes is really hard to fend off. To buy it time, I just harass with blink stalkers or dark templars.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12446177*
> I've been opening with blink stalkers against MMM against Platinum to High Diamond players and it seems to work fine. Blink stalkers puts the pressure on the T. His medivac drops become as risky as if there were mutalisks on the field. Stim no longer lets him retreat easily. Stim no longer guarantees him the victory if I just blink back weakened stalkers.
> 
> Also, the pressure is on him if you get either hallucinations or observers to scout the high ground for your stalkers to blink in. Aim for stuff like reactors (which take forever to replace) and terran will know how it feels when marauders take out our buildings in half a second.
> 
> The riskiest part of this mass gateway strategy is during the researching of psionic storm. A timing attack before it finishes is really hard to fend off. To buy it time, I just harass with blink stalkers or dark templars.


Blink stalker is very solid. I'm not sure why blink isn't used more frequently in the early/mid game. I can only guess a lot of protoss players don't appreciate how many headaches those blinks create for zerg and terran opponents.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12447440*
> Blink stalker is very solid. I'm not sure why blink isn't used more frequently in the early/mid game. I can only guess a lot of protoss players don't appreciate how many headaches those blinks create for zerg and terran opponents.


Mid game I can understand, early game is not viable, its to much of a money sink to be bothered rushing.


----------



## yks

is it weird that even though I've been on a losing streak, this is the most fun i've had in sc2? currently -15 for the week.


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm on the worst ******* losing streak it's pissing me off. 2-7 today, losing to everything and everyone that could possible be built. MMM's, 4 Gates, some weird hidden-stargate ****. ***


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12444792*
> Hahahaha
> 
> He got first place in his group, beating even Ddoro. Then lost his first game in the brackets.
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like Ddoro wasn't there. Would've been an interesting game for Doom.


Who's Ddoro?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12445526*
> I played my first game and quit because the tournament wasn't running well and I didn't get to play ROOTDdoRo.


Quit? How wasn't it running well? Curious is all








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12448369*
> is it weird that even though I've been on a losing streak, this is the most fun i've had in sc2? currently -15 for the week.


Impossible, who has fun even when losing, you must be out of your mind. The only person on here who has fun even when he loses is
<









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12448545*
> I'm on the worst ******* losing streak it's pissing me off. 2-7 today, losing to everything and everyone that could possible be built. MMM's, 4 Gates, some weird hidden-stargate ****. ***


meh, it happens. I've went on several losing streaks, likely 7+ games at some points, but, either way, you just need to win that one game to come back. It's not the end of the world as you guys make it seem. If you are worried about getting depromoted, I can understand but even then, you can get repromoted back so it's no biggie


----------



## thiru

Protoss player from Root.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12448703*
> Protoss player from Root.


oh, I see, thanks


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## DoomDash

Like, it started an hour late, most people didn't show, and I would have had to wait after my match. Instead I skyped with jedi and yks and had way more fun.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12448914*
> My grammar nazism insists that I correct you...
> 
> On another note, I don't understand why Day9 hates screen-scrolling so much... Of course, in most circumstances it's definitely better to click the minimap, but I don't want to move my mouse down to the minimap when my cursor is already at the top of the screen and I only need to go a short distance to (for instance) select and hotkey a building/unit.
> 
> Perhaps one of the enlightened ones could explain it to me


You can also hold the middle button to move around.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12448914*
> My grammar nazism insists that I correct you...


You are indeed correct, demoted is the correct response








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12448922*
> Like, it started an hour late, most people didn't show, and I would have had to wait after my match. Instead I skyped with jedi and yks and had way more fun.


ah I see, but, how did you skype with jedi when he was at tourney?







I guess it must have been before he left. Didn't realize you guys also skype


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12448966*
> But then I lose my mouse cursor and become momentarily confused


You can play Boxer style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_rryblADg#t=5m41s


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12448545*
> I'm on the worst ******* losing streak it's pissing me off. 2-7 today, losing to everything and everyone that could possible be built. MMM's, 4 Gates, some weird hidden-stargate ****. ***


I see those hidden stargates on delta quadrant. That map is so big. Plenty of places to hide stuff.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12442237*
> haha ***, how many bases are you guys on at that point?


Idra vs MVP, with Idra having more bases mining at the time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12449950*
> Idra vs MVP, with Idra having more bases mining at the time.


Needed.


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Idra vs MVP, with Idra having more bases mining at the time.


Did you hear Idra is coming back to the US? He may play in Europe as well. Good for Idra. We need players like him supporting foreign tournaments.

The Gracken will steal of our bases.


----------



## DoomDash

slytown i love how you have the link to you SCII profile in your sig yet you have no games played pretty much.


----------



## thiru

Added a bunch of Day9's newbie videos to the OP that I forgot.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

People still play this game


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;12456116*
> People still play this game


No this is just an extended eulogy.


----------



## yks

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/news/60939


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;12456116*
> People still play this game


Yeah people will play this for a very long time.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12449950*
> Idra vs MVP, with Idra having more bases mining at the time.


That's pretty essential in ZvT isn't it? Having lots of bases quickly?


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12451398*
> Did you hear Idra is coming back to the US? He may play in Europe as well. Good for Idra. We need players like him supporting foreign tournaments.
> 
> The Gracken will steal of our bases.


Tomorrow is the show-match between IdrA and Jinro, they are competing for $1,500









Feb 21st, 2pm on Incontrol's stream. It's going to be intense


----------



## Gigalisk

FARK...i wish i could watch it on my crap bandwidth. I will be home in about 10 days though. *CHYEAH*

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## monsterrose

loi cat this game is great


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp;12456116*
> People still play this game


Are you new to PC gaming?


----------



## DoomDash

Officially a 3000 Master Terran!!


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Officially a 3000 Master Terran!!


Grats!

And I'm learning a lot from these KOTHs.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12461190*
> Grats!
> 
> And I'm learning a lot from these KOTHs.


Just listen to me and you'll be 1000000x better ;D


----------



## DoomDash

Man it's amazing how terrible / good at this game I am at the same time. I have so many weak points but equally as strong, strong points.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Officially a 3000 Master Terran!!


Congrats.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Grats!

And I'm learning a lot from these KOTHs.










KOTH? When are these happening, because, I keep on missing them XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just listen to me and you'll be 1000000x better ;D


lol, have you gotten to masters yet?


----------



## Shozzking

Hey guys, I'm absolutely stuck in bronze league for 1v1. I've been playing as zerg and going 6 pool against zerg and 15 pool against terran and toss but no matter how perfect my BO is or how closely I follow all the guides that I've read then I can't win more than half of the matches that I play in. Would anyone be willing to play a few games with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shozzking*


Hey guys, I'm absolutely stuck in bronze league for 1v1. I've been playing as zerg and going 6 pool against zerg and 15 pool against terran and toss but no matter how perfect my BO is or how closely I follow all the guides that I've read then I can't win more than half of the matches that I play in. Would anyone be willing to play a few games with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


You're playing zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn you thiru, you removed the SCII ranks from your sig, now I gotta go all the way to page 1.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You're playing zerg.


lol, that's not it. Zerg is more difficult to play at the lower leagues due to having to decide when to drone/make units among other things(tumours, queen, etc...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Damn you thiru, you removed the SCII ranks from your sig, now I gotta go all the way to page 1.










Save in favourite for easier access


----------



## Allenssmart

can somebody watch this and help me? I can't seem to stop the protoss death ball...
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shozzking*


Hey guys, I'm absolutely stuck in bronze league for 1v1. I've been playing as zerg and going 6 pool against zerg and 15 pool against terran and toss but no matter how perfect my BO is or how closely I follow all the guides that I've read then I can't win more than half of the matches that I play in. Would anyone be willing to play a few games with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


Read this guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=194643

Watch some games of CatZ.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man it's amazing how terrible / good at this game I am at the same time. I have so many weak points but equally as strong, strong points.


 Lol, arrogant much?

I kind of have the same feeling, except I feel like I have a lot more weak points than strong points. *** do you do tvP? After maining protoss for months and switching to random, ive decided to stick with terran but I just cant seem to wing it against protoss, I'm not getting a good feel for the timings at all. I've been doing Select's 2rax expand, but Im not sure how to follow it up. How quickly do I get a starport? It seems if I rush to it I die to a push or if I delay it too much I die to collosus


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Lol, arrogant much?

I kind of have the same feeling, except I feel like I have a lot more weak points than strong points. *** do you do tvP? After maining protoss for months and switching to random, ive decided to stick with terran but I just cant seem to wing it against protoss, I'm not getting a good feel for the timings at all. I've been doing Select's 2rax expand, but Im not sure how to follow it up. How quickly do I get a starport? It seems if I rush to it I die to a push or if I delay it too much I die to collosus


I do 2 rax FE too. You really have to do good scouting to know where they are with colossus tech. If you see a robo bay you really have to get vikings asap. I think I lose majority of my TvP's when I scout it too late and they get 2+ Colossus out. If you don't see any evidence of robobay you can probably go ghosts first, or medivacs.

It becomes very hard for T after Colossus are out, and even harder after they transition into storm. I pretty much wing it with good production ....

I don't know if its arrogant to dis myself at the same time as compliment myself. Ask anyone who watches me I have some very strong mechanics but am weak in other areas.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just listen to me and you'll be 1000000x better ;D


Your advice is just for me to play more ladder! lol.


----------



## DoomDash

<3 Shakuras:


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Your advice is just for me to play more ladder! lol.


Best advice you can give most people. I got vdek and yks laddering, and now vdek is in masters, and yks is close.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


and yks is close.


() this is a ball

____ this is the floor.

___()__ this is me dropping the ball.


----------



## DoomDash

Cory / Inferno, if you read this please send me a replay pack ( or post ) of you PvT, and generally your FE / Sentry heavy openers? My friend 3000 master Euro protoss needs help and I can only tell him from my side.


----------



## DoomDash

Holy poop this GSL stream is crap.


----------



## DoomDash

IMlosira is going to make bane/bane bombs super popular vs P at high level. That last game was sick.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12466201*
> IMlosira is going to make bane/bane bombs super popular vs P at high level. That last game was sick.


rofl it failed so bad in curious vs huk xd

Also I want to punch kellymilkies.


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



that huk game 1 was pretty cool, cool map for that match up. nice to see no colossus.



PS: I would do her.


----------



## Gigalisk

Thanks last night to Jediwin, iCeSkeleton, and Sora last night...still bandaging my anal orifice...i still don't like sentries, and now i have to adapt to a new style of play.

I'll work on it. I'm 30 away from 3k Bronze. Or something like that.

Gigalisk
(Forward Deployed)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;12461482*
> Hey guys, I'm absolutely stuck in bronze league for 1v1. I've been playing as zerg and going 6 pool against zerg and 15 pool against terran and toss but no matter how perfect my BO is or how closely I follow all the guides that I've read then I can't win more than half of the matches that I play in. Would anyone be willing to play a few games with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


TBH I don't know what advice to give to zerg in bronze league because you need more 'game sense' to be good with zerg, which is impossible to learn in bronze league because everyone does stupid stuff that doesn't make sense.
So I (well actually not me, I don't play zerg) could give you strats that would get you out of bronze league pretty quickly but you wouldn't learn much from it (as opposed to Terrans or Protoss who would learn macro by simply playing standard).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12462187*
> Damn you thiru, you removed the SCII ranks from your sig, now I gotta go all the way to page 1.


lol put it in your own sig







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12462712*
> can somebody watch this and help me? I can't seem to stop the protoss death ball...
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142241-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns


If you don't like the death ball, stop him from getting it. Attack while he's on 1 base to set him back (or kill him if you can) when you get stim or concussive shell or both, so that it takes him longer to get those colossi.

Also you have a build order problem (I think, I don't play terran). You should be able to support more buildings on 1 base (I think it's 3 buildings with addons per base) so get more of those. The reason you had so few minerals was that you were mining gas you didn't need (you had 500+ gas at some point).

You also went ghosts instead of medivacs. In silver league I think medivacs are a safer, simpler choice (I think your 4 ghosts shot only one EMP and then just died.... so yeah they were pretty useless). It also allows you to start pumping vikings ASAP when you see those colossi.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12465734*
> Cory / Inferno, if you read this please send me a replay pack ( or post ) of you PvT, and generally your FE / Sentry heavy openers? My friend 3000 master Euro protoss needs help and I can only tell him from my side.


Make him watch this: http://white-ra.com/en/media/replays/item/iem?category_id=35 20 PvT's, not that much sentry, but a lot of warp prism play









You play on EU too?


----------



## yks

she WOULD be a zerg player.


----------



## DoomDash

No prize again, good practice, more masters were in this one.


----------



## DoomDash

Don't forget Jinro vs idra today for $1500:

http://www.justin.tv/iNcontroLTV Starts at 5 EST I think.


----------



## Idra

I'm playing on my friend's gold account and wow, it seems the mid-level (Gold-Platinum) players have the worse manners.

One of them tried to distract me from noticing his cheese by telling me I was lagging up the game. Then, when I foiled his cheese, he started BMing and just floated his CC away to stall the game.


----------



## the.FBI

On February 22nd MST there will be a Starcraft 2 tournament open to those in Diamond and Master League on the North American Servers. This will be a growing tournament with the possibility for prize money in the future. There will be no prize money this tournament however finalists will be guaranteed a spot in upcoming tournaments. The signup will be first come first serve with master league players having priority over diamond league.

The tournament format is:
Round of 16 --> Best of 3
Round of 8 --> Best of 3
Round of 4 --> Best of 3
Round of 2 --> Best of 5

When: February 22nd MST

Where: North America Servers

Tournament Link: www.konkuri.com/tournaments/de2c000787
We will be using Konkuri.com to run the tournament brackets but will update the winners and participants list on both Konkuri and team liquid.

To become a participant respond to this thread with your Starcraft 2 name and character code. I will ask that those wishing to participate quickly make an account on Konkuri and follow the tournament so that you will be able to view updates.

To make it easier for participants to find their matches we will be meeting in the starcraft 2 channel "Bear Cup"

Please go to teamliquid.net to and find the original post labeled "Bear Cup Open: North American SC2 Tournament" if you are interested.


----------



## thiru

Could you make that look less like spam?


----------



## the.FBI

my bad I probably should have made a new post for it, I will edit out the unnecessary components.


----------



## DoomDash

Are you guys hearing this? Jinro has said what I've been saying for months, how bad metal is. He even gave the exact same reasoning that I do! I FRICKIN TOLD U.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...tpage=337#6727


----------



## Zulli85

Live tourney with players like idrA and jinro

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/iNcontroL


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...tpage=337#6727































Rofl









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zulli85*


Live tourney with players like idrA and jinro

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/iNcontroL


That's not a tourney it's a showmatch.


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Rofl









That's not a tourney it's a showmatch.


w/e


----------



## DoomDash

Broo Frame !


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Broo Frame !


lol I don't even know what that one is supposed to mean.

edit: oh wait blue flame.


----------



## DoomDash

she totally said all that last night







.


----------



## teajayyy

anyone want to help train a bronze player... in return for rep xD


----------



## Idra

Anyone else watching Idra vs Jinro?

Teajayy, I could help you. What's your game ID?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


she totally said all that last night







.


Yeah I recognized most of them. The guy who posted those got banned, but it was totally worth it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *teajayyy*


anyone want to help train a bronze player... in return for rep xD


What race?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah I recognized most of them. The guy who posted those got banned, but it was totally worth it










Yeah I found the link cause he posts on SCC.


----------



## teajayyy

teajayyy.459

protoss


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Broo Frame !


Who is that person? Some Starcraft 2 player/commentator?

Is this some new meme? o_o


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Who is that person? Some Starcraft 2 player/commentator?

Is this some new meme? o_o


Shes a SC2 caster, now working for GSL. She has a thick accent.


----------



## teajayyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Anyone else watching Idra vs Jinro?


thanks to you i am now xD


----------



## crun

just so you know, the showmatch was recoreded earlier, its not live, it often runs out of sync and their commentary isnt too good either. waste of time imo : (


----------



## teajayyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crun*


just so you know, the showmatch was recoreded earlier, its not live, it often runs out of sync and their commentary isnt too good either. waste of time imo : (


i just tuned in on the 3rd match. now its 2-1 jinro and the commentary is pretty decent


----------



## DoomDash

It's not perfect, but its fun.


----------



## thiru

Idra is making this so boring.


----------



## yks

HOW ANTI-CLIMATIC was that. =/ i wanted to see the thor ownage.


----------



## DoomDash

idra, u sux.


----------



## teajayyy

if jinro lets this go i will cry


----------



## DoomDash

Really, no baneling speed?


----------



## DoomDash

http://nasl.tv/

Who are you guys voting for?

Me :

qxc 3
huk 1
white-ra 1
tyler 1
Jinro 1

then the site when down for maintenance.


----------



## DoomDash

Interview on NAStarleague :

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...-Robinson.html


----------



## yks

2 on HuK, Select, White-Ra, Nony, Adelscott.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


2 on HuK, Select, White-Ra, Nony, Adelscott.


Because PvP is teh best matchup!


----------



## Norman Bum

I put all of my votes into Zerg players, really looking forward to this!

I am however dissapointed that they will be allowing Korean gamers to come play; I understand that they allow foreigners into the GSL, but meh......


----------



## DoomDash

The best of the best.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Because PvP is teh best matchup!










I just want to see more toss matchups! but not PVP ewwwwww


----------



## Idra

I read that Idra vs Jinro was actually pre-recorded. It wasn't actually live. Sort of takes away some of the excitement but I guess its just the showcasing of the skill that matters.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12472966*
> Are you guys hearing this? Jinro has said what I've been saying for months, how bad metal is. He even gave the exact same reasoning that I do! I FRICKIN TOLD U.


metal? You mean mech or are you talking about the map meta?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12473097*
> Broo Frame !


Guys, seriously, give her a break. I can understand its a bit hard to understand due to her accent, but, even then, most ppl on TL are dismissing her casting before she's had more time to show what she's got








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12473313*
> Who is that person? Some Starcraft 2 player/commentator?
> 
> Is this some new meme? o_o


Yes, a new commentator for Code A I believe








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12474903*
> I put all of my votes into Zerg players, really looking forward to this!
> 
> I am however dissapointed that they will be allowing Korean gamers to come play; I understand that they allow foreigners into the GSL, but meh......


Why not have Korean gamers? As I understand it, they want it to be of high level games on par with the GSL which explains the 400k prizes split over 3 seasons, that's more than what you get in the GSL


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigfan;12477550*
> 
> guys, seriously, give her a break. I can understand its a bit hard to understand due to her accent, but, even then, most ppl on tl are dismissing her casting before she's had more time to show what she's got


brooooo frameeeeeee herrionssss


----------



## yks

I actually think she did pretty well.

She needs to get used to Korean-style casting though, where everyone has set roles on what they say.

Right now she seems like your regular solo-caster where you try to say everything yourself.

Give her a couple weeks/months to get used to Korea style and figure out her role and she'll be pretty good, imo.

But she plays zerg, so icky.


----------



## DoomDash

http://cgi.ebay.com/Starcraft-2-Master-League-Account-Leveling-/180626363717?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2a0e2b9545#ht_202wt_238

I need to do this ^^.


----------



## Idra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12477860*
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Starcraft-2-Master-League-Account-Leveling-/180626363717?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2a0e2b9545#ht_202wt_238
> 
> I need to do this ^^.


Could his Sc2 account get banned for that if there is conclusive proof that the profile he linked to is his?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12477626*
> brooooo frameeeeeee herrionssss


XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12474362*
> http://nasl.tv/
> 
> Who are you guys voting for?
> 
> Me :
> 
> qxc 3
> huk 1
> white-ra 1
> tyler 1
> Jinro 1
> 
> then the site when down for maintenance.


I voted for idra only like 3 times








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12477710*
> I actually think she did pretty well.
> 
> She needs to get used to Korean-style casting though, where everyone has set roles on what they say.
> 
> Right now she seems like your regular solo-caster where you try to say everything yourself.
> 
> Give her a couple weeks/months to get used to Korea style and figure out her role and she'll be pretty good, imo.
> 
> But she plays zerg, so icky.


Indeed true for everything *except* for the icky zerg part


----------



## DoomDash

GSL


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Holy **** MC beat the **** out of July. The blink to surround the roaches at the end, then storming them... that was sick.


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



July beats MVP 2-0


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://nasl.tv/

Who are you guys voting for?

Me :

qxc 3
huk 1
white-ra 1
tyler 1
Jinro 1

then the site when down for maintenance.


Me:

PokeBunny 2
SeleCT 1
FXOMooNaN 2

Saving 3 votes for SLoG if he ever decides to go for it and another for InflowYen(ReQYen) if he decides to play.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Me:

PokeBunny 2
SeleCT 1
FXOMooNaN 2

Saving 3 votes for SLoG if he ever decides to go for it and another for InflowYen(ReQYen) if he decides to play.


I don't think you need to save votes, I believe you can change them.


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Could his Sc2 account get banned for that if there is conclusive proof that the profile he linked to is his?


I would think Bnet would ban the account he levels for the buyer. He didn't do anything wrong on his own account.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Could his Sc2 account get banned for that if there is conclusive proof that the profile he linked to is his?


Why does it matter? He wouldn't stand a chance if he tries to actually compete in that bracket. Being in Masters league only unlocks uber difficult mode, it doesn't actually give you any sort of advantage.


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Why does it matter? He wouldn't stand a chance if he tries to actually compete in that bracket. Being in Masters league only unlocks uber difficult mode, it doesn't actually give you any sort of advantage.


Lots of people might buy this because they only play team games and just want the prestige of the masters symbol on their profile.


----------



## yks

HOLY **** THE GSL RESULTS, I MUST WATCH. this is unexpected


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Moheevi_chess*


Lots of people might buy this because they only play team games and just want the prestige of the masters symbol on their profile.


Sure, but we're not arguing why someone would do it, you were asking if Blizzard would ban people for it. I see absolutely no reason why they would.


----------



## DoomDash

Dead money, Bulletstorm, and Dragon Age 2 demo... today is a good day.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yks

This has been a good way to start the week.

Sunday; did some obs games with my bros on skype
Monday; GSL, NASL, Showmatch
Tuesday; GSL, Dragon Age 2 Demo, 4-1 ladder.

Hopefully this keeps up.


----------



## Idra

Where are you guys watching these matches?


----------



## yks

I bought a ticket, doom watches live on TL, cause he's too cheap for a ticket


----------



## thiru

Gomtv.net


----------



## poroboszcz

Now, that's how you play protoss:

http://sc2rep.com/replays/download/id/5215

I recommend FPview.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

let's take a look

oh it's mc vs butt, i've seen this


----------



## thiru

SC2 tips from the best protoss in the world:

  
 You Tube  



 








this guy is awesome


----------



## yks

HuK switched to jtv and improved his stream quality, woooo!!! the text is actually readable.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12497883*
> HuK switched to jtv and improved his stream quality, woooo!!! the text is actually readable.


link?
No only if he liked better music.


----------



## thiru

http://www.justin.tv/liquidhuk/


----------



## DoomDash

Following.

Now following: vdek, yks ( i think ), trump, qxc, huk.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12498290*
> Following.
> 
> Now following: vdek, yks ( i think ), trump, qxc, huk.


Watch Steven.
http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii

Epic lols guaranteed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12498540*
> Watch Steven.
> http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii
> 
> Epic lols guaranteed.


I don't like him very much. I know how he acts already.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12498655*
> I don't like him very much. I know how he acts already.


You're missing out.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12494971*
> SC2 tips from the best protoss in the world:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ZIZSgUQ6Q&feature=feedu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this guy is awesome


Hmm... sounds like an online or gamer version of the hipsters


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12499377*
> Hmm... sounds like an online or gamer version of the hipsters


More like the most accomplished troll ever.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Hmm... sounds like an online or gamer version of the hipsters


I don't think you get it haha

Athene cracks me up, even though his bit is a little out-dated.


----------



## Ruckol1

Maybe I should stream?







Tips help


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12505009*
> Maybe I should stream?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tips help


GL. I thought about streaming myself, just for fun, etc.... but decided against considering my net. Be prepared though, most are critical of your rank so I dunno how it'll go since you're only in gold atm :/

^^That video is interesting. Anyone notice the crysis 2 shortcut?







Sounds like someone grabbed the "leak" that surfaced a while back.


----------



## yks

Stream, brah! all i can say, i support the streaming community

wooooooooo just bought a 2gb 5870 for 170, ^___^


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Stream, brah! all i can say, i support the streaming community

wooooooooo just bought a 2gb 5870 for 170, ^___^


sweet price


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan, I'll race you ... I get 4000 before you get 2000.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


BigFan, I'll race you ... I get 4000 before you get 2000.


lol, I'm at 1.1k or so. I'm fairly confident that I can get to 2k in no time if I am to grind/devote more time to SCII. April can't come soon enough for me to do that


----------



## DoomDash

Let's see it then ^^.


----------



## Ruckol1

Race me BigFan me to plat you to gold >.>


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yks

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...0505344?page=1

Master League out for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Let's see it then ^^.


You will in due time young one









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Race me BigFan me to plat you to gold >.>










Oh, I'll get to gold easy if I switched to Z from random, but, I like doing things the hard way


----------



## yks

Gold easy? Lotta talk, lotta talk and no show. =p


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12515887*
> Gold easy? Lotta talk, lotta talk and no show. =p


Silver = Gold = easy if I'm only Z, harder as random because I'm taking way too many breaks between my games and my timings get messed up as a result. Once I have the time, I'll try and grind a bit with Z only then go back to random after I get promoted up


----------



## ThumperSD

Hi nerds. It seems like i havent played in forever








.

BigFan you make it out of silver yet?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12517128*
> *Hi nerds*. It seems like i havent played in forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> BigFan you make it out of silver yet?


and a hello to you too geek XD Nerd = geek, so, I say we're even







What's up? Long time no see







I switched to random and haven't laddered/played SCII much lately, too busy to get a game going, so, haven't moved out of silver yet


----------



## jpaolof

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12514377*
> Is a GSL season ticket worth it? My normal schedule doesn't allow for me to watch the streams, so I'm hesitant to purchase one.


worth every penny. You could learn some good strats too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12517128*
> Hi nerds. It seems like i havent played in forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> BigFan you make it out of silver yet?


Where you been?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12517128*
> Hi nerds. It seems like i havent played in forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> BigFan you make it out of silver yet?


I miss my bro-toss


----------



## thiru

Kelly just said that scrap station is a close position map...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12519003*
> Kelly just said that scrap station is a close position map...


I know how to shut her up.


----------



## thiru

Didn't know you could fail so much in so little time.


----------



## thiru

Small compilation of protoss coaching VOD with incontroll and response: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...aching_videos/


----------



## roberT_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...0505344?page=1

Master League out for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4!


Been waiting for this. Time to grind the ladder and get Masters!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Small compilation of protoss coaching VOD with incontroll and response: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...aching_videos/


Cool , haven't seen some of these. +rep

You could add them to the first page too.


----------



## rhed5

Incontrol is insufferable. I wish he goes away.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Didn't know you could fail so much in so little time.


People make mistakes, even though that was rather bad, deal with it


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Incontrol is insufferable. I wish he goes away.


I think he's alright, you gotta realize a lot of the way he acts is just that, a big act.


----------



## thiru

Unfortunately a big act won't do for the figure head of the NASL.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12520562*
> Cool , haven't seen some of these. +rep
> 
> You could add them to the first page too.


I added it.

Btw if you want a nice (well, I've only checked it out once so far) SC2 community try reddit. The european website and IRC chat is here and their channel on EU is obviously reddit. A 3k master terran with a decent zerg off race (he beats diamond protoss) named Raziel will play with anyone


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Unfortunately a big act won't do for the figure head of the NASL.


I think he's fine for it. He has more passion for starcraft and more accomplishments that 99.9% of the community.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

You guys hear Idra on the last SOTG (episode28)? He said Zerg is currently unusable in pro tournaments and all the pro zergs he's talked to are fed up. Among other things he suggested the hydra and roach be switched and their specs tweaked. He thinks Blizzard is avoiding the big issues and wasting time with minor things like bunker build timings.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well I agree with him that they are wasting in minor things, however I don't even know what's major or minor. There is some truth to his opinions but I think he's gone overboard.

New mini update it seems.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You guys hear Idra on the last SOTG (episode28)? He said Zerg is currently unusable in pro tournaments and all the pro zergs he's talked to are fed up. Among other things he suggested the hydra and roach be switched and their specs tweaked. He thinks Blizzard is avoiding the big issues and wasting time with minor things like bunker build timings.


hmm, the switch thing is interesting. Having the hydras instead of roaches means earlier AA but they might need to slightly change the dps of hydras and then would be able to implement lurkers in HoTS if they decide to do so. Personally, I think it's an interesting idea that I would love to be implemented even just in the PTR but alas he is also correct about the Blizzard comment, they are tweaking *almost* irrelevant things and not touching on the bigger issues :/


----------



## DoomDash

I don't care what idra says, he sounds like a cry baby to me.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You guys hear Idra on the last SOTG (episode28)? He said Zerg is currently unusable in pro tournaments and all the pro zergs he's talked to are fed up. Among other things he suggested the hydra and roach be switched and their specs tweaked. He thinks Blizzard is avoiding the big issues and wasting time with minor things like bunker build timings.


This would be pretty awesome, but I doubt it's going to happen. Massable cheap hydras would be really nice.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


This would be pretty awesome, but I doubt it's going to happen. Massable cheap hydras would be really nice.


I wouldn't say they are cheap though, aren't they 100/50? In BW, they were 75/25 if I recall correctly. I think moving them to tier or maybe even 2 if you consider needing the hydralisk den after pool would help with AA and give Z a ranged unit and then roaches can become tanks in tier 2. Not sure if Blizzard will implement this though, because, they said they didn't want everyone to start going mass hydras like in BW because they were cheap and effective


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


This would be pretty awesome, but I doubt it's going to happen. Massable cheap hydras would be really nice.


Besides switching roach/hydra, they talked about reducing hydra's DPS and price. Seems reasonable. Idra also wants roach to be a legit tier 2 unit instead of something of lesser ability. There was no discussion of zerg tier 3, but I think that needs to be addressed as well.


----------



## slytown

I luled at this interview. Hilarious.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Idra

He just **** all over LiquidNazgul...
Made stereotypes for every race pertaining to Starcraft 2 playstyles...
Ackward moments of silence throughout interview...
Shameless product placement...


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I wouldn't say they are cheap though, aren't they 100/50? In BW, they were 75/25 if I recall correctly. I think moving them to tier or maybe even 2 if you consider needing the hydralisk den after pool would help with AA and give Z a ranged unit and then roaches can become tanks in tier 2. Not sure if Blizzard will implement this though, because, they said they didn't want everyone to start going mass hydras like in BW because they were cheap and effective










The point of moving them to tier one would be to make them cheaper and cost 1 supply while also reducing their HP/DPS........


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


The point of moving them to tier one would be to make them cheaper and cost 1 supply while also reducing their HP/DPS........


Kinda like marines, only not as good?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Kinda like marines, only not as good?


Except with longer range, no stim, cost gas, and lair tech range upgrade.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Steve "Destiny" Bonnell has an interesting idea. He wants cooldown for MULEs. I like it. IMO marines/hellions are so horribly imba because minerals mean nothing for terrans. They're great units that can win games and terrans can afford to just throw them away because of the MULEs. Terran misses a MULE drop, no biggie. He can drop 4 at once and catch up. Zerg gets punished serverly for missing a larva injection. There's no catching up if you forget an injection. And hellions have to cost gas. I think that's a no-brainer.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Except with longer range, no stim, cost gas, and lair tech range upgrade.


And can't be passively healed by floating a medivac over it.


----------



## rhed5

Mule cooltime would be nice, but what would be better is if Terran's have comsat stations instead of orbital commands, something that can be sniped off.

Speaking of orbtals, why are terran the only race to have that ability to drop a supply depot? Not that many people use them because mules are better, but it's odd how versaitile they are.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't care what idra says, he sounds like a cry baby to me.


Yet when some terran cries imba you quote him and say how insightful what he's saying is.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Steve "Destiny" Bonnell has an interesting idea. He wants cooldown for MULEs. I like it. IMO marines/hellions are so horribly imba because minerals mean nothing for terrans. They're great units that can win games and terrans can afford to just throw them away because of the MULEs. Terran misses a MULE drop, no biggie. He can drop 4 at once and catch up.


Not really. If terran misses a mule he can't catch up by dropping two, as he loses that income at this point in time. Same is true for chronoboost. You can't cast 4 chronoboosts and catch up for missed production/research earlier. It seems like Zerg is at a disadvantage, but it really isn't.


----------



## thiru

http://www.livestream.com/rolle3k

This idiot is streaming his games.... while hacking.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


http://www.livestream.com/rolle3k

This idiot is streaming his games.... while hacking.


rofl


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, I'm gonna start checking my replays more carefully now from the other's player camera view. Someone should record the stream and send it to Blizzard.

Edit: hahaha and he still lost!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Steve "Destiny" Bonnell has an interesting idea. He wants cooldown for MULEs. I like it. IMO marines/hellions are so horribly imba because minerals mean nothing for terrans. They're great units that can win games and terrans can afford to just throw them away because of the MULEs. Terran misses a MULE drop, no biggie. He can drop 4 at once and catch up. Zerg gets punished serverly for missing a larva injection. There's no catching up if you forget an injection. And hellions have to cost gas. I think that's a no-brainer.


It's definitely not steves idea.


----------



## thiru

Added these to the OP.
Zerg coaching videos
Terran coaching video


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Not really. If terran misses a mule he can't catch up by dropping two, as he loses that income at this point in time. Same is true for chronoboost. You can't cast 4 chronoboosts and catch up for missed production/research earlier. It seems like Zerg is at a disadvantage, but it really isn't.


Well then maybe MULE itself needs to be nerfed. Anyone who can read an income tab knows terrans always have astronomical mineral income no matter how sloppy they are about dropping MULEs. I think that's unfair. They can dump these cheapass marine and hellion raids in your bases and if you don't react immediately you lose the game because of it. If you do shut it down the terran just yawns and makes more. There's no commensurate penalty for failing in a potentially game-winning attack. Only terran has such friendly risk/reward math going for them, and it's like that for the entire game. What does a bunker rush cost? Barely anything, yet it can win the game in the first few minutes. If it fails, terran isn't really punished at all. How is that fair?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Have y'all discussed the several new maps on ladder now?

I've tried a few and they feel a bit awkward, though interesting.


----------



## Gigalisk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Have y'all discussed the several new maps on ladder now?

I've tried a few and they feel a bit awkward, though interesting.


Are they actually in the map rotation now on SC2? Or do you have to download them? because i havent seen any new maps and i played yesterday.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gigalisk*


Are they actually in the map rotation now on SC2? Or do you have to download them? because i havent seen any new maps and i played yesterday.


They're on now on NA.


----------



## Gigalisk

K kewl...and i just found out that i will be stationed back in korea December 6th!! i dont know if i want to stay 1 or 2 years though....


----------



## thiru

PTR 1.3 is up.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2356436#blog
Quote:


> Notes
> Balance changes:
> PROTOSS
> Mothership
> Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
> High Templar
> Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
> Zealot
> Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.
> TERRAN
> Battlecruiser
> Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
> Bunker
> Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
> Tech Lab
> Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
> ZERG
> Infestor
> Health increased from 90 to 110.
> Fungal Growth
> Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
> Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
> Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast.
> EDIT: Another change of interest
> An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
> An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
> An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.


Kinda wondering what a chargelot will do to attack a running stimmed marine. Teleport to it? get an insane boost of speed at the last second?


----------



## yks

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662

Patch Notes:
# Mothership

* Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.

# High Templar

* Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.

* Battlecruiser

o Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.

* Bunker

o Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.

* Tech Lab

o Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.

# Infestor

* Health increased from 90 to 110.

* Fungal Growth

o Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.

o Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.

o Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast.


----------



## Gigalisk

I dont know if i like it, and im a toss player. That means yuo have to stop em from doing it if you are not watching...you could lose some zealots that way.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

As long they're looking at infestor they ought to look at neural parasite, which is just garbage right now. It's not even worth the research cost.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

guess no more toilet


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do we really need alerts of when chrono mules larv expire..


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Baneling toilet is amazing. If enemy units and banelings are in the vortex together the result is an enormous explosion the moment the toilet empties. I saw this in a 1v1 with a toss who let most of his ground army get sucked into his own vortex.


----------



## thiru

lol I think my PTR updater is trolling me. It's been downloading and installing stuff over and over again for the past half hour.

edit: well turns out there was an update on for normal SC2. But now it says "PTR not online" when I want to launch it.


----------



## Allenssmart

how are we terrans supposed to do an early 3 rax stim timing push against protoss anymore??? now there's no early game option tvp and late game tvp is completely unstoppable so terrans just lost the ability to beat a protoss player in all scenarios. Wow. Good job blizzard


----------



## slytown

Yea, 30 seconds is a long time and 4 seconds is tiny for duration.

That vortex thing will suck for protoss. So basically it can't be used for attack, only to retreat?


----------



## Idra

I honestly think chargelots are good enough the way they are. They are very, very effective against MMM, especially when backed up with units. It also forces your opponent to micro (kite) and makes them pay less attention to their macro.

And zealots are the most annoying thing ever when they get into your base. Ever been cheesed in which zealots were spawned inside your base? Way harder to fend off than a zergling run-by...

Taking away Khayderian Amulet is completely unnecessary. What the hell were they thinking? If this is so, at least make high templars restore their energy faster or have a higher max energy.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Overseer contaminate would be better if it would drain some energy off of buildings. It would help reduce MULE production and the endless flood of marines. Would also take away some chrono boosts on colossus and void ray production.


----------



## vdek

I expect more changes.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12528662*
> Ever been cheesed in which zealots were spawned inside your base? Way harder to fend off than a zergling run-by...


There's a very good cheese attack in PvZ that involves using a warp prism in the zerg main. If the zealots successfully eliminate the queens then the prism will just sit there and spew wave after wave of zealots.


----------



## yks

Holy ****. oh my god.

if you guys are watching GSL....

wowowowoowoww....


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



sanZenith just beat NesTea AND Boxer in a 40min macro game and a 20min 3base game...

sanZenith... the GSL record holder for fastest loss ever, 4 times in a row.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

which match were you talking about? Too tired to watch gn people.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12523987*
> Yet when some terran cries imba you quote him and say how insightful what he's saying is.


No Terran cries as much as Idra. No Protoss or T ever cried as much as Z.

LOVE THE PATCH NOTES!!







. BC buff, amulet removal, fungal nerf kinda... !!


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12529530*
> No Terran cries as much as Idra. No Protoss or T ever cried as much as Z.
> 
> LOVE THE PATCH NOTES!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . BC buff, amulet removal, fungal nerf kinda... !!


Fungal was buffed so much :O 2x the dps, +30% armored, and extra hp!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12529551*
> Fungal was buffed so much :O 2x the dps, +30% armored, and extra hp!!


Yeah its nice... but now its dodge-able. Sounds fair to me.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12529551*
> Fungal was buffed so much :O 2x the dps, +30% armored, and extra hp!!


I assume the idea was to make infestor a viable option in PvZ. Fungal buff is a good step, but I still think neural parasite should have been tweaked or removed from the game. It's garbage as is and not even worth researching. I'd be happy if NP were removed and pathogen gland buffed to compensate.


----------



## DoomDash

NP is really good actually. Vs Thor's anyway.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12529807*
> NP is really good actually. Vs Thor's anyway.


This is the first time I've ever seen a positive comment about neural parasite.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


This is the first time I've ever seen a positive comment about neural parasite.


Really? Artosis just mentioned it was good during the GSL.

Jinro:

"I think this change is gonna be too big, P needs at least the old BW upgrade back (+50 mana, starts with 63 mana instead of 50).

With HTs starting at 50, its like you cant even warp them in in advance vs units in the middle of the map. Its a bit extreme that you can just warp them in as you spot the dropship unloading in your base, but they need something. "

Also I played with the changes on PTR. OMG BC's are FAST. FG might be too good? Hard to say, but it does damage extremely fast, and is very hard to dodge. We'll have to see? Z's let me know what you think... open to ideas on it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Fungal was buffed so much :O 2x the dps, +30% armored, and extra hp!!


Maybe but think of it this way, you have 4 seconds to take out those units because they are able to kite insterad of 8, so, it was both a large buff especially the 30% and a nerf









That BC buff is crazy though, I can only imagine they move pretty fast. I think the crystal is interesting though, means that you can't just wrap in hts once you see a drop or mutas and then storm while wrapping in more


----------



## thiru




----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Maybe but think of it this way, you have 4 seconds to take out those units because they are able to kite insterad of 8, so, it was both a large buff especially the 30% and a nerf










Nah, I don't see it that way at all. Previously a medivac could out heal a fungal growth, now it can't.


----------



## thiru

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=192233

Well someone finally did it. The ultimate resource repository for newbies. (well it's a work in progress, but it's saving me a lot of effort)


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Nah, I don't see it that way at all. Previously a medivac could out heal a fungal growth, now it can't.


It is a significant nerf is some ways. I like to use burrowed infestors in sneak attacks. I surface, cast fungals, then burrow and try to outrun the scanner. 8 seconds is enough time, but 4 seconds won't get it done. Terran will scan and kill the infestors.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*   It is a significant nerf is some ways. I like to use burrowed infestors in sneak attacks. I surface, cast fungals, then burrow and try to outrun the scanner. 8 seconds is enough time, but 4 seconds won't get it done. Terran will scan and kill the infestors.  
Do the second one in another 4 seconds... then they all die... profit.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do the second one in another 4 seconds... then they all die... profit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ci_Z9uDLng&


I doubt that will suffice to save the infestors. I need the full 8 seconds to escape stimmed marauder and scanner. Even stimmed marines will probably live long enough to kill the infestor, which is a terrible trade for zerg. Infestor costs 150 gas each. I don't use them in sneak attacks against terran infantry unless I'm pretty sure I can escape. Otherwise the risk/reward math is too unfavorable.


----------



## DoomDash

3100 <3.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Where you been?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I miss my bro-toss


I'm taking a break. Been going through a lot of BS with the death of a family member, girl problems, school etc. It kind of made me disinterested in playing games for a while.

I plan to start playing again though.. probably during Spring Break or something


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I'm taking a break. Been going through a lot of BS with the death of a family member, girl problems, school etc. It kind of made me disinterested in playing games for a while.

I plan to start playing again though.. probably during Spring Break or something


Check out the new patch notes, maps, ect. Hurry back to us.


----------



## Ruckol1

I flippin hate playing T.

I constantly am losing fights with a 200/200 army vs. much less MMM armies, even with upgraded lings and mutas and a surround.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Zerg 200/200 armies are dreadfully inefficient in comparison to T and P 200/200 armies. I think the optimal supply to attack with is 170.

Also, banelings exist for a reason










No they would barely be pushing 120 supply, maybe 130 or 140 in some instances with 0 upgrades.

I just personally cannot justify banelings, I know I know they are a huge part of MMM counter but flipping stimmed Marines who don't get surprised by them just mow down hundreds of gas and mins.


----------



## DoomDash

Banelings are sick as heck. TvZ is so damn hard. You are losing to 130-140 supply Terrans? Sounds like you're doing stuff wrong. Share same replays.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I think the optimal supply to attack with is 170.


That doesn't even make sense.


----------



## yks

I can't believe any of you think that Fungal Growth is getting a (slight) nerf with those patch notes.

It's dodge-able but does twice the DPS and Infestor HP change. That's 3 volleys from a tank instead of 2.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## poroboszcz

What do you guys think about the new maps?

I really like the current pool. Steppes was a terrible map and I didn't even play on BS.

Slag Pits looks quite bad with super close spawn positions and very few, hard to defend expansions, but the other maps are ok. Typhon Peaks is actually quite awesome. Not sure why they removed Shakuras though.


----------



## DoomDash

I miss Shakarus.

I like Backwater Gluch, and The Shattered Temple.

Slag Pits is horrible. 
Typhon Peaks is horrible for Terran in cross positions... like impossible vs Zerg probably.

So yeah I like 2.


----------



## thiru

Doom you should make a run for Grandmasters in the PTR


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12537098*
> Doom you should make a run for Grandmasters in the PTR


meh







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12535663*
> I flippin hate playing T.
> 
> I constantly am losing fights with a 200/200 army vs. much less MMM armies, even with upgraded lings and mutas and a surround.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12535746*
> No they would barely be pushing 120 supply, maybe 130 or 140 in some instances with 0 upgrades.
> 
> I just personally *cannot justify banelings*, I know I know they are a huge part of MMM counter but flipping stimmed Marines who don't get surprised by them just mow down hundreds of gas and mins.


I'll put it this way: When I played Z, going up against T was worse than P because MMM would mow down anything I throw at it. I neglected banes completely for no specific reason then once I started adding them in, MMM is a snap to take down. If you are really worried about losing them, try bane drops, run in lots of slings to cover for them then run in the blings, aim for marines and with the splash, marauders will do down easy. Another tip is to run some OLs in first, the marine should autotarget those and they'll act like a cloud for your banes, so, they would have a harder time seeing them to kite them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12535260*
> I'm taking a break. Been going through a lot of BS with the death of a family member, girl problems, school etc. It kind of made me disinterested in playing games for a while.
> 
> I plan to start playing again though.. probably during Spring Break or something


Sorry to hear about your family member







I hear you on the disinterest loud and clear though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12537098*
> Doom you should make a run for Grandmasters in the PTR


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12537328*
> meh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


His comment proves that he wouldn't make it if he tried


----------



## DoomDash

heh, I'm only 800 away from making it in NA.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12537098*
> Doom you should make a run for Grandmasters in the PTR


I'm going to get grandmasters, just you watch!


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12528891*
> Holy ****. oh my god.
> 
> if you guys are watching GSL....
> 
> wowowowoowoww....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> sanZenith just beat NesTea AND Boxer in a 40min macro game and a 20min 3base game...
> 
> sanZenith... the GSL record holder for fastest loss ever, 4 times in a row.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Just finished watching. Those two just got beat. Plain and simple. Congrats sanZenith. You definitely deserve to bein Code S now if you didn't before.


----------



## pmrballer123

hahahaha


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12538172*
> heh, I'm only 800 away from making it in NA.


You make it sound like beating the other 600 is gonna be easy








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12539011*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Just finished watching. Those two just got beat. Plain and simple. Congrats sanZenith. You definitely deserve to bein Code S now if you didn't before.


hmm, spoiler tag please. Not for me, but, for those who are watching this GSL


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12539031*
> You make it sound like beating the other 600 is gonna be easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, spoiler tag please. Not for me, but, for those who are watching this GSL


fixed.

PS You re-posted it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12538939*
> I'm going to get grandmasters, just you watch!


You can't even play ladder.

Also, I never said Grand Masters would be easy. I've beaten people in the top 200 though.... so I am not THAT far.


----------



## thiru

There aren't many people playing in the PTR though. People have been 4gating their way there with just a few games.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Zerg 200/200 armies are dreadfully inefficient in comparison to T and P 200/200 armies. I think the optimal supply to attack with is 170.

Also, banelings exist for a reason










Or you can attack, immediately, at 200/200. As Zerg, you would still reach 200/200 before your opponent does unless your macro is crap.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## AblueXKRS

So apparently Tastosis casted a Nada v Slayers_Boxer match? Has that casting been uploaded anywhere?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12546286*
> So apparently Tastosis casted a Nada v Slayers_Boxer match? Has that casting been uploaded anywhere?


Try this: http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2&round=2
Should work, not positive about season, but, likely 2, possibly RO16 or RO8


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12546372*
> Try this: http://kowiz.cowxp.net/SC2/?season=2&round=2
> Should work, not positive about season, but, likely 2, possibly RO16 or RO8


Chrome and Firefox cannot find server.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12546446*
> Chrome and Firefox cannot find server.


hmm, I was wondering whether it was only IE that was having an issue. That website used to have a link to all the games, unfortunately, it doesn't look like its working now :/ Search justin.tv, you can probably find the match there


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12546527*
> Search justin.tv, you can probably find the match there


No results for Nada, so I don't think so.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12546592*
> No results for Nada, so I don't think so.


hmm, I'm pretty positive I watched the NaDa vs. Boxer series, especially their last game on Delta was epic







Try a google search, I'm sure someone else must have a link to them


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Playing a 3v3 with my friends and the other team paused and was taking a while so I went to resume :/

Hit the surrender button by mistake......


----------



## Ruckol1

T so ******* mother******* broken I'm so pissed everytime I play ******* T, no matter WHAT I cannot beat them, no matter how badly I outplay them they just bring a little group of MMM and poof there goes Splings and Blings (2/1), as well as mutas. My army values in the graph is always WAY higher than theirs yet it drops to ******* 0 after the fight. Patch pls


----------



## DoomDash

sling/bane/muta > bio.


----------



## yks

I don't understand how MMM beats banes w/o tanks.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, I'm pretty positive I watched the NaDa vs. Boxer series, especially their last game on Delta was epic







Try a google search, I'm sure someone else must have a link to them










I've just discovered why I can't find it.

Whatever prats run the official tourines went "OMG COPYRIGHT WE LOSING A BILLION DOLLARS FOR EVERYONE WHO WATCHES THE REPLAY ONLINE BWAAAAA BOOHOO HOO CRY WAAAH" and had everyone take it down.

Stuck-up cry-baby ponces.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I don't understand how MMM beats banes w/o tanks.


It doesn't







. Unless you're MKP sometimes.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=512.0

I won the second StarcraftCentral tournament again. still no prize, but fun.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Absolutely, but as Zerg you should probably have more drones than other races, taking up a little more supply. That's a good thing though, because you can throw another batch of units at them as soon as the first army dies a little and frees up some supply.


I was pointing out that 170 supply is not anymore "optimal" of an attack timing than 200 supply.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


I've just discovered why I can't find it.

Whatever prats run the official tourines went "OMG COPYRIGHT WE LOSING A BILLION DOLLARS FOR EVERYONE WHO WATCHES THE REPLAY ONLINE BWAAAAA BOOHOO HOO CRY WAAAH" and had everyone take it down.

Stuck-up cry-baby ponces.


Probably, let me see if I can find you a link









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It doesn't







. Unless you're MKP sometimes.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=512.0

I won the second StarcraftCentral tournament again. still no prize, but fun.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


T so ******* mother******* broken I'm so pissed everytime I play ******* T, no matter WHAT I cannot beat them, no matter how badly I outplay them they just bring a little group of MMM and poof there goes Splings and Blings (2/1), as well as mutas. My army values in the graph is always WAY higher than theirs yet it drops to ******* 0 after the fight. Patch pls


Sorry but nope, slings/banes ALWAYS take out MMM especially if its a little group. I've used it in over 80 games, it always done the job albeit leaving you with less of an army due to the banes suiciding but it work, slings/blings/mutas is one of the best combos we have and that works as well especially if you constantly harass their bases and stop their production


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It doesn't







. Unless you're MKP sometimes.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=512.0

I won the second StarcraftCentral tournament again. still no prize, but fun.


Was is it a tournament or a terranament? Any of the other races have success?


----------



## poroboszcz

Terran is not OP. I think even the stim nerf is aimed mainly at lower leagues where 3 rax still owns. The only thing terran has that can be considered OP atm are blue flame hellions or maybe hellions in general. They should make them slower/more expansive or something as even sacrificing them into your mineral line is usually a good trade off for terran against both P and Z.


----------



## rhed5

masters in everything








3v3, 4v4 is so frustrating when playing with random people where everyone just blames each other.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


masters in everything








3v3, 4v4 is so frustrating when playing with random people where everyone just blames each other.


nice, why not get a good 3vs3 and 4vs4 together? You'll have to deal with less random people that way









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Was is it a tournament or a *terranament*? Any of the other races have success?


XD +REP for the comment









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Terran is not OP. I think even the stim nerf is aimed mainly at lower leagues where 3 rax still owns. The only thing terran has that can be considered OP atm are blue flame hellions or maybe hellions in general. They should make them slower/more expansive or something as even sacrificing them into your mineral line is usually a good trade off for terran against both P and Z.


Says the protoss player who's colossi are OP and keep on roasting my poor slings/roaches in my PvsZ games







Yes, I know that you're playing some games as Z as well.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nice, why not get a good 3vs3 and 4vs4 together? You'll have to deal with less random people that way









XD +REP for the comment









Says the protoss player who's colossi are OP and keep on roasting my poor slings/roaches in my PvsZ games







Yes, I know that you're playing some games as Z as well.


So ******* stupid I ******* hate ******* Terran nothing ******* works against them

I scout MMM so I go mass splings and banes, with 2/1 upgrades, and next thing I know he's attacking with Blue flame helions which roast my entire ******* ling army and his marines just mow down my mutas. My last 2 times I've been matched against a T in ladder I've just left once it's started. There's no way it can be won, ******* complete bull**** I've tried everything. And the worst part is at the end of the game, the score screen, I completely rape them in every section except units just cause 1 of their units = ******* 10 of mine.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The current balance scheme isn't really about who's OP. It's about who has more advantages in the given game time and matchup. Maps play a huge factor as well. Terran just have more options at any given time in each matchup.

Last game, was pretty short: I'm Bullit


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12555970*
> So ******* stupid I ******* hate ******* Terran nothing ******* works against them
> 
> I scout MMM so I go mass splings and banes, with 2/1 upgrades, and next thing I know he's attacking with Blue flame helions which roast my entire ******* ling army and his marines just mow down my mutas. My last 2 times I've been matched against a T in ladder I've just left once it's started. There's no way it can be won, ******* complete bull**** I've tried everything. And the worst part is at the end of the game, the score screen, I completely rape them in every section except units just cause 1 of their units = ******* 10 of mine.


It seems like it can be a psychological issue in your case. Just learn the matchup.

Download sc2allreplay and search for ZvT's where zerg wins. Watch a number of replays from Zerg's perspective specifically paying attention to timings, scouting information and their reactions with production tab open.

Also watch these if you have time:

http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4612303/
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4654943/
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4663778/
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4663284/
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4777942/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12555970*
> So ******* stupid I ******* hate ******* Terran nothing ******* works against them
> 
> I scout MMM so I go mass splings and banes, with 2/1 upgrades, and next thing I know he's attacking with *Blue flame helions which roast my entire ******* ling army* and his marines just mow down my mutas. My last 2 times I've been matched against a T in ladder I've just left once it's started. There's no way it can be won, ******* complete bull**** I've tried everything. And the worst part is at the end of the game, the score screen, I completely rape them in every section except units just cause 1 of their units = ******* 10 of mine.


Tip: Don't run your slings into his army when he has hellions. I'm sure you already know this but I thought I'll remind you







Try burrowing some banes then exploding when his MMM walks over. Get some roaches to try and get some shots on the hellions. Since I haven't seen these games, I can't comment on what the issue could be. Yes, hellions+MMM is pretty strong, but, if you can get rid of the hellions, then MMM is easy picking with slings+blings. Try bane drop using OLs on MMM. Experiment around, get some infestors, FG his hellions then run your slings+blings into his MMM. Pick off the hellions with mutas first before he engages, etc.... There are a lot of different strat that are possible, main idea is to capitalize on their mistakes and keep the pressure before he starts massing. BTW, quitting against T isn't the way to play, you lost points and you lose out on experience regardless of how frustrating you might find it







I have some ZvsT that are fun to watch with some MMM action(not much hellions I'm afraid), watch those(make sure they are the latest), maybe I did something that might help you


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12554699*
> Terran is not OP. I think even the stim nerf is aimed mainly at lower leagues where 3 rax still owns. The only thing terran has that can be considered OP atm are blue flame hellions or maybe hellions in general. They should make them slower/more expansive or something as even sacrificing them into your mineral line is usually a good trade off for terran against both P and Z.


The general problem is that terran has early units (like hellion) that can deliver devastating and even game-ending attacks and they're so cheap that terran can just throw them away. Terran can drop brooframes and stimmed marine/maruader in my base and if I'm not ready for it I probably lose the game because of it. Or, I could slaughter the whole terran attack force, and terran just yawns and remakes it. As a zerg, if I attempt a game-winning attack and it fails miserably I get punished severely for it. Not so for terran.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12555970*
> So ******* stupid I ******* hate ******* Terran nothing ******* works against them
> 
> I scout MMM so I go mass splings and banes, with 2/1 upgrades, and next thing I know he's attacking with Blue flame helions which roast my entire ******* ling army and his marines just mow down my mutas. My last 2 times I've been matched against a T in ladder I've just left once it's started. There's no way it can be won, ******* complete bull**** I've tried everything. And the worst part is at the end of the game, the score screen, I completely rape them in every section except units just cause 1 of their units = ******* 10 of mine.


Post a few replays of you playing against these terrans, then we can see what you are doing right, and what you are doing wrong. You can use http://www.sc2replayed.com/ to host them.

MOST of the time if you are zerg, the problem isnt really your composition, its the timing of when you built those attack units and what you did with them...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12557028*
> The general problem is that terran has early units (like hellion) that can deliver devastating and even game-ending attacks and they're so cheap that terran can just throw them away. Terran can drop brooframes and stimmed marine/maruader in my base and if I'm not ready for it I probably lose the game because of it. Or, I could slaughter the whole terran attack force, and terran just yawns and remakes it. As a zerg, if I attempt a game-winning attack and it fails miserably I get punished severely for it. Not so for terran.


yup.

T's strong early, normal mid and late game.
Z's weak early, strong mid and late game
P's a weird race where they can be so strong and so weak at the same time in all period of the game.


----------



## andypc

Do you know what really put me off sc2?

The fact that the population limit does not increase when your team-mates leave the game.

So if you are playing a 3v3 and your team-mates leave, you not only inherit their resources, their ****ty scvs but you look at your population limit and its like 250/200. So you cant make nothing and are almost garenteed to lose.
Where as your oponents have 200 limit each, which becomes 600 vs 200 which is an absolute joke.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andypc;12559018*
> Do you know what really put me off sc2?
> 
> The fact that the population limit does not increase when your team-mates leave the game.
> 
> So if you are playing a 3v3 and your team-mates leave, you not only inherit their resources, their ****ty scvs but you look at your population limit and its like 250/200. So you cant make nothing and are almost garenteed to lose.
> Where as your oponents have 200 limit each, which becomes 600 vs 200 which is an absolute joke.


You can continue making HIS units using his population limit I think.

edit: oh I didn't know it did that. Never had a player quit that late.
So what happens if you make him build a pylon?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12559033*
> You can continue making HIS units using his population limit I think.


Yes you can do that. I once had a 1vs2 where my ally dropped. We were both Z and I macroed up 400/400 army having all my and his hatches at one hotkey. It's a bit harder with other races though, but yea you just need to build his depots/pylons.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12557028*
> The general problem is that terran has early units (like hellion) that can deliver devastating and even game-ending attacks and they're so cheap that terran can just throw them away. Terran can drop brooframes and stimmed marine/maruader in my base and if I'm not ready for it I probably lose the game because of it. Or, I could slaughter the whole terran attack force, and terran just yawns and remakes it. As a zerg, if I attempt a game-winning attack and it fails miserably I get punished severely for it. Not so for terran.


It's true to some extent. Terran is the least punished race for failed all-in attempts.


----------



## DoomDash

Man imagine how big targeting a tech lab with stim is in 1.3 :O.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12559202*
> Yes you can do that. I once had a 1vs2 where my ally dropped. We were both Z and I macroed up 400/400 army having all my and his hatches at one hotkey. It's a bit harder with other races though, but yea you just need to build his depots/pylons.
> 
> It's true to some extent. Terran is the least punished race for failed all-in attempts.


Ah, I thought that was the case, because even when someone quits early I don't get supply blocked.


----------



## andypc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12559202*
> Yes you can do that. I once had a 1vs2 where my ally dropped. We were both Z and I macroed up 400/400 army having all my and his hatches at one hotkey. It's a bit harder with other races though, but yea you just need to build his depots/pylons.


Really?







In a match I was playing, as terran, both allies dropped out I was pushed into a corner of the map, with an insane amount of resources so decided to spam the battlecruiser built 5 starports and shed loads of supply depots, to discover that I was capped at 200.

Even then If i were to build allies supply depots/pylons do I also need their buildings to build their units in their pop limit?

Because if you do the amount of micromanagement is unimaginable. IMO, if you allies walk out the game should give you their pop limit, not make you play as three players.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andypc;12559292*
> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a match I was playing, as terran, both allies dropped out I was pushed into a corner of the map, with an insane amount of resources so decided to spam the battlecruiser built 5 starports and shed loads of supply depots, to discover that I was capped at 200.
> 
> Even then If i were to build allies supply depots/pylons do I also need their buildings to build their units in their pop limit?
> 
> Because if you do the amount of micromanagement is unimaginable. IMO, if you allies walk out the game should give you their pop limit, not make you play as three players.


You can still have various production buildings under the same hotkeys (e.g. Nexi/CCs/Hatches at 4) and use tab to switch between them.

I think the reason they did it this way is that otherwise it would give an unfair advantage to the player who's allies left the game.The other players, who stay in the team, would have to utilize some perfect resource trading and shared army control to achieve the same consistency in macro and strategy. There are already some strategies which take advantage of one player leaving the game to get extra resources for an early push.


----------



## andypc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12559586*
> You can still have various production buildings under the same hotkeys (e.g. Nexi/CCs/Hatches at 4) and use tab to switch between them.
> 
> I think the reason they did it this way is that otherwise it would give an unfair advantage to the player who's allies left the game.The other players, who stay in the team, would have to utilize some perfect resource trading and shared army control to achieve the same consistency in macro and strategy. There are already some strategies which take advantage of one player leaving the game to get extra resources for an early push.


Yeah I see where you are coming from, but this only works if your team-mates leave early on, before their infrastructure is affected and this rarely happens.

Most players leave when they are being dominated and all of the basses under attack which makes it impossible to salvage them for the extra population.


----------



## ThumperSD

I know im late but WOW... getting rid of k amulet is lame

Are you guys seeing a lot more P opting for colossi now?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12560808*
> I know im late but WOW... getting rid of k amulet is lame
> 
> Are you guys seeing a lot more P opting for colossi now?


Such a dumb move.

They forgot there's such a thing as pvz as well. Now mutas will ran rampant.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


I know im late but WOW... getting rid of k amulet is lame

Are you guys seeing a lot more P opting for colossi now?


Why would it be any different in TvP? It won't be at least for that match up. Protoss don't get templar in PvT for fun, they do it because they need it to survive. Now it's the same thing as it used to be, except more planning and 30 seconds of waiting goes into it. It's not like many went Templar before Colossus, and even then that build is a lot riskier. I think Colossi into Templar is the best way to play the match up, and I don't see it being any different.

Though I'd like to see Templars start with 65 energy now, reasonable enough.

As for PvZ, I think Blizzard wants the phoenix to be used to battle muta, which is apparent by the reduced time for them.


----------



## thiru

44 seconds of planning actually.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


As for PvZ, I think Blizzard wants the phoenix to be used to battle muta, which is apparent by the reduced time for them.


Microed phoenix was already stupid good against muta. I think the reduced build time was due to Blizz being worried about P not having enough ways to cheese Z. 8 ways wasn't enough. 9 is just right.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


44 seconds of planning actually.


aka 30 seconds time IRL. 44 sec is on "FASTER".


----------



## thiru

Nobody uses IRL seconds.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nobody uses IRL seconds.


----------



## yks

No one likes the tuna fish sandwhich


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


No one likes the tuna fish sandwhich


hahahaahahahahahahahahhahaha


----------



## DoomDash

I'm so shooting for Grand Masters 1.3 if they do a reset.


----------



## thiru

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=196111

'Improving your Armies Effectiveness'


----------



## yks

Great vid for the noobs


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Microed phoenix was already stupid good against muta. I think the reduced build time was due to Blizz being worried about P not having enough ways to cheese Z. 8 ways wasn't enough. 9 is just right.


The Pheonix build time reduction was actually my friends idea, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


As for PvZ, I think Blizzard wants the phoenix to be used to battle muta, which is apparent by the reduced time for them.


The Pheonix are also there to give an alternative to Colossi wars in PvP.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I still haven't seen a game or had a game in PVZ where phoenix would work.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm so shooting for Grand Masters 1.3 if they do a reset.


Rooting for you guys to go there.


----------



## DoomDash

http://sc2ranks.com/us/312178/DoomDash

Currently @ 981 in NA. Still would be hard to climb that many ranks.


----------



## thiru

Nice, you broke 1,000


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah though I'm not sure how accurate it really is. Cory is a lot closer than me.. and Darrenc from the oc.net finals could easily be top 200 ( again ).


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah though I'm not sure how accurate it really is. Cory is a lot closer than me.. and Darrenc from the Overclock.net finals could easily be top 200 ( again ).


I just checked, he's 866 actually with 3200 points.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I just checked, he's 866 actually with 3200 points.



Who, Cory or Darrenc? Probably Cory.. but yeah he has bonus pool. ( 80's ).

Darrenc the guy who beat me in the finals is:
3200 atm, with 300 bonus pool :O.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You Tube


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12564009*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196111
> 
> 'Improving your Armies Effectiveness'


That helped a lot, I learned lots







. Thanks, may be the key to my MMM success

Edit: I found map stats pretty cool on SC2 ranks. Post yours!

http://sc2ranks.com/us/1314326/Glorify/maps/

My best map: Blistering Sands 15-4


----------



## RealEyes

Let's play SCII!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12562159*


rofl, but, I agree, both are important








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12568171*
> That helped a lot, I learned lots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Thanks, may be the key to my MMM success
> 
> Edit: I found map stats pretty cool on SC2 ranks. Post yours!
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/1314326/Glorify/maps/
> 
> My best map: Blistering Sands 15-4


Best: Scrap Station 10-10
Worse: Lost Temple 9-28
I don't think it's accurate because I'm >50% W:L ratio atm and I have more loses than wins on most maps. I think since they started keeping track recently, they missed some of the earlier wins, but, that doesn't make sense because since they track your record, they should know the total wins and loses


----------



## DoomDash

I use SC2gears for my map stats.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I use SC2gears for my map stats. 










Needs info on spawning positions to be really useful. In ZvT on Lost Temple or Metalopolis close spawning and cross spawning are so vastly different they might as well be considered different maps altogether. Just lumping all the spawns together and taking an average isn't very informative about how the map actually plays in real games.


----------



## DoomDash

I wish I could sort my race match up %'s by just ladder matches. Since it doesn't do this, some how it thinks my TvZ is my best match up







.

I can tell you my TvT is probably actually around 54% in ladder but the rest are completely inaccurate.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I wish I could sort my race match up %'s by just ladder matches.


Search replays, select your auto-save folder > Search filter, select game type: AutoMM > Multi-replay analysis.

I usually forget to turn on sc2gears when playing so my stats are totally random.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Search replays, select your auto-save folder > Search filter, select game type: AutoMM > Multi-replay analysis.

I usually forget to turn on sc2gears when playing so my stats are totally random.


If you turned on the option to permanently save all replays in SC2, you can still use them in sc2gears. Just double click on 'sc2 auto reps' under 'replay sources'.


----------



## Ruckol1

What is that? SC2Gears? A client of some sort that saves & uploads your replays?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you turned on the option to permanently save all replays in SC2, you can still use them in sc2gears. Just double click on 'sc2 auto reps' under 'replay sources'.


I didn't because I thought I'll use sc2gears for that and always turn it on when I'm laddering


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Search replays, select your auto-save folder > Search filter, select game type: AutoMM > Multi-replay analysis.

I usually forget to turn on sc2gears when playing so my stats are totally random.


Wow thanks a lot. + rep

Here is my actual stats I guess. TvZ better than I expected actually:


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


What is that? SC2Gears? A client of some sort that saves & uploads your replays?


It's a program that automatically saves your replays (was useful when SC2 couldn't do it for you before one of the patches) and does replay analyses. Can also upload replays with one click.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sounds very useful. But what is the stats DoomDash posted? Is it a part of SC2gears as well - to take stats while you play for review after?

- just made it into Diamond. I seem to have no problem with most Terran and mirror Toss matchup. However Diamond zergs are crazy hard to take down. Just when I thought I learned how to defend against roach bust after early expansion, they do something else that screws everything up.


----------



## DoomDash

The screens I took are from SC2gears yes. It has way more things than you can imagine. Go download.


----------



## Gigalisk

I must download these..."gears" you speak of. LOL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


What is that? SC2Gears? A client of some sort that saves & uploads your replays?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Sounds very useful. But what is the stats DoomDash posted? Is it a part of SC2gears as well - to take stats while you play for review after?

- just made it into Diamond. I seem to have no problem with most Terran and mirror Toss matchup. However Diamond zergs are crazy hard to take down. Just when I thought I learned how to defend against roach bust after early expansion, they do something else that screws everything up.


It's a program that can save replays, post them(according to thiru, never tried myself) and is useful for looking at your stats, BO, APMs, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The screens I took are from SC2gears yes. It has way more things than you can imagine. Go download.


It's a nice program no doubt, but, it's not as crazy as you guys make it sound


----------



## rhed5

started streaming
http://www.justin.tv/jediwintv/
check it out


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12575755*
> started streaming
> http://www.justin.tv/jediwintv/
> check it out


Nice stream, great quality


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12575271*
> 
> It's a nice program no doubt, but, it's not as crazy as you guys make it sound


Sure it is.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12575755*
> started streaming
> http://www.justin.tv/jediwintv/
> check it out


Thanks to jedi, and Hummingbird for their help. That Baneling help led me to beat my first gold MMM!!!!

In fact, it wasn't even close.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12575755*
> started streaming
> http://www.justin.tv/jediwintv/
> check it out


Nice, following









You want me to add the link to the op?


----------



## vdek

Thiru, I had to wash my eyes with soap earlier today because of you...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12578086*
> Thiru, I had to wash my eyes with soap earlier today because of you...












Reddit's just full of those, but I have to admit that one was ****ed.


----------



## MacNcheese

I ask this because I simply cant read 1100+ pages of posts...

Any thoughts on setting up a OCN SC2 tourny?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacNcheese;12578154*
> I ask this because I simply cant read 1100+ pages of posts...
> 
> Any thoughts on setting up a OCN SC2 tourny?


There has been one... but lets say it didn't end well.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacNcheese;12578154*
> I ask this because I simply cant read 1100+ pages of posts...
> 
> Any thoughts on setting up a OCN SC2 tourny?


There was one, but the organizers (normal OCN members) screwed up and never gave the prize.

I could organize one, ask the mods if they're willing to help (and also make sure that prizes that are promised are actually given) and if enough people want it.

So say so if you want one and spread the word.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12578197*
> There was one, but the organizers (normal OCN members) screwed up and never gave the prize.
> 
> I could organize one, ask the mods if they're willing to help (and also make sure that prizes that are promised are actually given) and if enough people want it.
> 
> So say so if you want one and spread the word.


Please do, but make sure you clearly state that all games have to be played continuously. I remember the first tourney took over a month to complete if I remember correctly.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12578243*
> Please do, but make sure you clearly state that all games have to be played continuously. I remember the first tourney took over a month to complete if I remember correctly.


I actually prefer this way for online tournaments.


----------



## Ruckol1

Here is my successfull MMM stop replay. Note my micro of making sure the Banes hit his marines not marauders







.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145389-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12578243*
> Please do, but make sure you clearly state that all games have to be played continuously. I remember the first tourney took over a month to complete if I remember correctly.


Yeah it's pretty much the only way I've seen it done, except for OCN's tournament







at worse, do finals or finals+ semis the following day or week if you want a dramatic end or someone really has to go.


----------



## MacNcheese

Well seems like nothing is stopping us from doing it for fun! If anything, Il pitch in 2 dollars to the winner!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Just got beat by another douche who used that 2-base colossus/void build that Artosis already determined was unstoppable in korea. I told the guy it was an unstoppable build against zerg, and he said no, it could be countered. I asked him how; he wouldn't say. He just made some stupid wisecracks instead. I asked him if he really thought he was smarter than the master league zergs on the korean server, and please answer my original question, etc. More evasion and sarcasm. This has happened before. It's making me dislike protoss players. They tell you they know how to stop their unstoppable build, but they invariably refuse to say how. A lot of protoss players were already annoying and smartass. Now they're turning into liars as well.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579010*
> Just got beat by another douche who used that 2-base colossus/void build that Artosis already determined was unstoppable in korea. I told the guy it was an unstoppable build against zerg, and he said no, it could be countered. I asked him how; he wouldn't say. He just made some stupid wisecracks instead. I asked him if he really thought he was smarter than the master league zergs on the korean server, and please answer my original question, etc. More evasion and sarcasm. This has happened before. It's making me dislike protoss players. They tell you they know how to stop their unstoppable build, but they invariably refuse to say how. A lot of protoss players were already annoying and smartass. Now they're turning into liars as well.


Less QQ more improve.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12579085*
> Less QQ more improve.


Less post, more play.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12579090*
> Less post, more play.


More tournaments, more prizes.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12579085*
> Less QQ more improve.


I doubt you saw episode 3 of the Artosis/Idra show "Imbalanced." Artosis said he's undefeated on the korean ladder in PvZ with the 2-base colossus/void build. Futhermore, he invited every type of zerg player to try to stop it and they all failed, and he can't see any way it can be stopped by zerg. Said he's gone over this with a "fine tooth comb" and has run out of ideas for zerg. Maybe Artosis lied about all this, but I don't see why he would do that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579122*
> I doubt you saw episode 3 of the Artosis/Idra show "Imbalanced." Artosis said he's undefeated on the korean ladder in PvZ with the 2-base colossus/void build. Futhermore, he invited every type of zerg player to try to stop it and they all failed, and he can't see any way it can be stopped by zerg. Said he's gone over this with a "fine tooth comb" and has run out of ideas for zerg. Maybe Artosis lied about all this, but I don't see why he would do that.


Who cares what the pros say you're in Silver.

I don't even get to say anything cause I'm nothing compared to the pros. Marines are probably broken @ pro level, but at my level they are not nearly as good because of how sloppy I am.

So just do your best, figure out the best way to over come it.

Plus Artosis + Idra is like team Zerg. I play Zerg probably as much as Artosis has played Protoss... and I don't call myself a Zerg player.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579122*
> I doubt you saw episode 3 of the Artosis/Idra show "Imbalanced." Artosis said he's undefeated on the korean ladder in PvZ with the 2-base colossus/void build. Futhermore, he invited every type of zerg player to try to stop it and they all failed, and he can't see any way it can be stopped by zerg. Said he's gone over this with a "fine tooth comb" and has run out of ideas for zerg. Maybe Artosis lied about all this, but I don't see why he would do that.


I don't need to watch it to know that unless you're 3k+ zerg, you're not facing protoss players who pull off the build perfectly, who aren't vulnerable while they're doing it, who can't be harassed, who macro perfectly, who pressure correctly.
Until then, there's a million things you can do to improve your game.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12579146*
> Who cares what the pros say you're in Silver.
> 
> I don't even get to say anything cause I'm nothing compared to the pros. Marines are probably broken @ pro level, but at my level they are not nearly as good because of how sloppy I am.
> 
> So just do your best, figure out the best way to over come it.


Way to avoid my points. I guess Artosis is just a horrible liar and we should ignore everyhing he says.

And BTW, I don't ladder anymore, just play custom games. I kill gold and under and beat low plat usually and high plat about half the time. I'm not totally inept at this game. Zerg has problems. Obviously you don't want to admit it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12579148*
> I don't need to watch it to know that unless you're 3k+ zerg, you're not facing protoss players who pull off the build perfectly, who aren't vulnerable while they're doing it, who can't be harassed, who macro perfectly, who pressure correctly.
> Until then, there's a million things you can do to improve your game.


^ this.

And not to mention there are other ways around it. Firstly why can't you kill a tos on one base while you're already on two? Why can't you kill that tos when he's just finished his natual expo and weak to busts? Why can't you use mutas to harass the heck out of his minieral line? Finally why can't you mass expand? You think 2 base tos can get to maxxed before you do when you're on 3 or more bases while he's stuck on two base when you have map control?

So much has to do with timings, bulid and "bumps" in everyone's play. There are much more factors in play, esp when toss is either forge FE, 1-2 gate FE, 3 gate fe etc. All zerg has to do is cut drones and bust or ling runby. It's usually over for toss who are in silver-plat. Even pro korean tos loose to zerg even before tos can get to two bases.

What artosis was saying was that if toss had the macro and skill to take two bases quickly and max out with col/void with fodder, and only if the fight is at zerg natural/main, it's a sure win as zerg doesn't have enough time to remacro up to beat the battered tos army. if the fight is at toss' base, all zerg has to do is remacro and starve the toss to death.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12579148*
> I don't need to watch it to know that unless you're 3k+ zerg, you're not facing protoss players who pull off the build perfectly, who aren't vulnerable while they're doing it, who can't be harassed, who macro perfectly, who pressure correctly.
> Until then, there's a million things you can do to improve your game.


You don't get it. 2-base colossus/void has protoss literally sitting in their base massing units. It's laughably easy for P to stay safe during the process. P doesn't even have to leave his base. Only a little scouting is necessary. If you have a method for zerg to conduct meaningful harassment against a Protoss who is just sitting on 2 bases massing voids and colossi then I'd like to hear it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579205*
> You don't get it. 2-base colossus/void has protoss literally sitting in their base massing units. It's laughably easy for P to stay safe during the process. P doesn't even have to leave his base. Only a little scouting is necessary. If you have a method for zerg to conduct meaningful harassment against a Protoss who is just sitting on 2 bases massing voids and colossi then I'd like to hear it.


If you're getting beat by a protoss who never attacks you while massing his colossi + void ray army on 2 bases, you are doing it very wrong.

edit: it's called macro. Get more stuff than he does. Especially important for zerg players.


----------



## DoomDash

Artosis isn't lying, he is too damn biased to see things from an objective stand point. When you've been a Zerg fanboi as long as him you can't just let it go picking up a new race. In fact if he's anything like me he'd pick up a new race to help his previous balance points seem more legit.

Problems with Zerg? Maybe... would it include you? Probably not. If Zerg was that bad I'd be doing a hell of a lot better than I am vs them. That and when I play Zerg I do fine.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12579210*
> If you're getting beat by a protoss who never attacks you while massing his colossi + void ray army on 2 bases, you are doing it very wrong.
> 
> edit: it's called macro. Get more stuff than he does. Especially important for zerg players.


Get real. In the game I just lost, 18 minutes in I had a maxed army, tons of tech and upgrades, 4 bases saturated, thick wall of spinecrawlers, and toss just walked right over it all and crushed my reinforcements as well. What do you do about that? Void/collossus with a bit a stalker/zealot support just doesn't die. You can't put enough of a dent in it to keep it from rolling over you.

And Artosis specifically mentioned that the void/colossus build had been tested against zergs who "take the whole map." His exact words. You can macro all you want, you still can't afford to throw away whole armies without inflicting significant casualties on your opponent.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579277*
> Get real. In the game I just lost, 18 minutes in I had a maxed army, tons of tech and upgrades, 4 bases saturated, thick wall of spinecrawlers, and toss just walked right over it all and crushed my reinforcements as well. What do you do about that? Void/collossus with a bit a stalker/zealot support just doesn't die. You can't put enough of a dent in it to keep it from rolling over you.
> 
> And Artosis specifically mentioned that the void/colossus build had been tested against zergs who "take the whole map." His exact words. You can macro all you want, you still can't afford to throw away whole armies without inflicting significant casualties on your opponent.


OK go blame it on imbalance and that can be your excuse for not getting any better.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579277*
> Get real. In the game I just lost, 18 minutes in I had a maxed army, tons of tech and upgrades, 4 bases saturated, thick wall of spinecrawlers, and toss just walked right over it all and crushed my reinforcements as well. What do you do about that? Void/collossus with a bit a stalker/zealot support just doesn't die. You can't put enough of a dent in it to keep it from rolling over you.
> 
> And Artosis specifically mentioned that the void/colossus build had been tested against zergs who "take the whole map." His exact words. You can macro all you want, you still can't afford to throw away whole armies without inflicting significant casualties on your opponent.


Replay please.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

never thought about harassing or stopping toss macro either eh, or maybe roach bust/ling runby when he's getting his natural? Or maybe those silver toss are just perfect players.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12579305*
> OK go blame it on imbalance and that can be your excuse for not getting any better.


Know what? You could be a big star in the SC2 community if you emailed Artosis with the definitive zerg counter to the 2-base colossus/void build. Your name would be known all across the world. You might even get a guest spot on the next episode of the show. Anybody here want to be a gaming superstar? This is your big opportunity. Show the world how smart you are.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579338*
> Know what? You could be a big star in the SC2 community if you emailed Artosis with the definitive zerg counter to the 2-base colossus/void build. Your name would be known all across the world. You might even get a guest spot on the next episode of the show. Anybody here want to be a gaming superstar? This is your big opportunity. Show the world how smart you are.


Whether or not its imbalanced does not matter. You play with the cards you've been dealt. You need to stop complaining about it, and stop back talking people telling you to work on areas that will help you over come the problem.

You can't change anything by complaining in here about it, but you can work on other areas of your game to make it matter much less.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I have only one analogy to this:
'Hey, I played Rock, Paper needs a nerf, but Scissors is ok.'
'Hey, I played Paper, Scissors needs a nerf, but Rock is ok.'
'Hey, I played Scissors,﻿ Rock needs a nerf, but Paper is ok.'"
Basically no matter what, there is no perfect buff or nerf, because no matter what happens, someone will complain.
SilentVolt 1 hour ago 63


----------



## thiru

On another note, my email account is getting spammed the crap out of it. I have like 20 emails saying someone tried to access my account and it's filled with false links asking me to click them, and I have half a dozen email saying that my account has been locked due to too many failed attempts.

The emails look pretty convincing too.


----------



## DoomDash

So wait, HuK tonight for GSL?!?!?


----------



## thiru

I believe so.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes he is, w000.


----------



## thiru

Also, Destiny joins ROOT Gaming.

http://www.root-gaming.com/news/root-gaming-welcomes-rootdestiny


----------



## rhed5

Anyone know the results to IEM today? 
Thiru, would appreciate if you add me stream to the OP


----------



## yks

IEM day 2 still going on.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...d_Championship

for some of the results.


----------



## rhed5

yks, it's blocked for me. can you post it here for me?


----------



## yks

Day 2:
Moon: 5-0
Moonglade: 4-1
Sjow, Squirtle, Socke: 2-3 and are in their second bo1 3-way tie break 
Fenix: 0-5


----------



## rhed5

Thanks for that. Surprised Moon is 5-0, after everyone saying he wasn't impressive. I wonder if Squirtle can make it out too.


----------



## yks

Triple over time now.

edit; QUADRUPLE overtime.


----------



## Idra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Thanks for that. Surprised Moon is 5-0, after everyone saying he wasn't impressive. I wonder if Squirtle can make it out too.


Is that Moon from MYM and Wc3? If so, I want to see him in a show match against Grubby in SC2.


----------



## yks

Tie break finally ended after quadruple OT.

squirtle advances. 5 of the 6 players in the finals trained in the KR servers with Morrow being the 1 of 6


----------



## cory1234

How exactly did Huk win the third game? I think Revival was paid to lose to keep more foreigner views.


----------



## thiru

Use


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12579338*
> Know what? You could be a big star in the SC2 community if you emailed Artosis with the definitive zerg counter to the 2-base colossus/void build. Your name would be known all across the world. You might even get a guest spot on the next episode of the show. Anybody here want to be a gaming superstar? This is your big opportunity. Show the world how smart you are.


http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/61939

Watch that and tell me you can't beat a toss going on two bases.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12586358*
> http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/61939
> 
> Watch that and tell me you can't beat a toss going on two bases.


HuK is just bad.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well he's still better than me and the other tosses in LL's silver level, whom he claims, are "impossible to beat".


----------



## BigFan

no way, just lost a long reply







Guess that happens when your laptop battery goes dry


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12587647*
> Well he's still better than me and the other tosses in LL's silver level, whom he claims, are "impossible to beat".


Yeah, he's also better then Artosis who "never lost doing this build", but tbh I don't like HuK for some reason. Maybe it's because of ****ty music on his stream and its poor quality or maybe it's because he looks like Justin Bieber, often behaves like an idiot and hasn't really achieved anything since the beta, when he only 4 gated anyway. I just don't like him even though he plays protoss.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12587647*
> Well he's still better than me and the other tosses in LL's silver level, whom he claims, are "impossible to beat".


Huk's playstyle wasn't really designed for the colossus/void ray build. On the game he lost he was completely out of position (and way out of his base) when he knew the zerg had a bigger army.

In the build Artosis refers to Protoss never leaves his base until he is almost maxed.


----------



## DoomDash

I was hating on HuK for ages, but he's recently grew on me and I can appreciate his very exciting style.


----------



## MacNcheese

This thread goes really quick through pages...

I found my post and saw that dude who couldnt defeat void/collosus build... ultra/corruptor... ur biggest problem is the voids and just get a couple infestors to spray them. They bunch up anyways so bam thats done, ultra will keep the collossi busy because they have priority to be hit first and then ur golden. Just make sure u concentrate the corruptors on the voids first. Ultras die, then its just a chasing game after ur corruptors win


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacNcheese;12588484*
> This thread goes really quick through pages...
> 
> I found my post and saw that dude who couldnt defeat void/collosus build... ultra/corruptor... ur biggest problem is the voids and just get a couple infestors to spray them. They bunch up anyways so bam thats done, ultra will keep the collossi busy because they have priority to be hit first and then ur golden. Just make sure u concentrate the corruptors on the voids first. Ultras die, then its just a chasing game after ur corruptors win


It's easier said that done as with everything else


----------



## MacNcheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12589394*
> It's easier said that done as with everything else


Would you be up to try it? Il be the zerg... obviously


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12588291*
> In the build Artosis refers to Protoss never leaves his base until he is almost maxed.


Wouldn't zerg be maxed with 3/3 and on 4-5 bases by then with stacked larva and minerals? I can't see how you can win PvZ without applying any pressure for such a long time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MacNcheese*


Would you be up to try it? Il be the zerg... *obviously*


lol, Z is my best race followed by P and T, but, even then, I still lack in a lot of areas due to lack of playtime. We can probably try though, although, not tonight, I gotta get to bed in < 1hr and got some stuff left to do :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Wouldn't zerg be maxed with 3/3 and on 4-5 bases by then with stacked larva and minerals? I can't see how you can win PvZ without applying any pressure for such a long time.


4-5 colossi will eat a zerg's ground army







Having said that, I think it's somewhat of a mistake to just let a Zerg macro, but, if the Protoss is upgraded with a lot of VRs, colossi and zealots, then I can see why it'll be hard to stop such a deathball


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12588253*
> Yeah, he's also better then Artosis who "never lost doing this build", but tbh I don't like HuK for some reason. Maybe it's because of ****ty music on his stream and its poor quality or maybe it's because he looks like Justin Bieber, often behaves like an idiot and hasn't really achieved anything since the beta, when he only 4 gated anyway. I just don't like him even though he plays protoss.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12588303*
> I was hating on HuK for ages, but he's recently grew on me and I can appreciate his very exciting style.


HuK's style changed so much since the beta. As for his stream, the music is pretty bad, but the quality went up by leaps and bounds now that he's using xsplit. Like you can actually read the text.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12589971*
> Wouldn't zerg be maxed with 3/3 and on 4-5 bases by then with stacked larva and minerals? I can't see how you can win PvZ without applying any pressure for such a long time.


I don't attempt the build in ladder simply because if you lose your colossus your dead. It's risky, but if you win the first battle and your still above 130 food you probably won.


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0fV5KADifY&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Old school 2005


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Hitler designed this game, and Terrans are the Germans. Proof:


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Jinro, the Zerg Hunter, wants a glass of my delicious milk.


----------



## AblueXKRS

JeanLucPigrack?


----------



## BigFan

rofl @ those pics


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Know what? You could be a big star in the SC2 community if you emailed Artosis with the definitive zerg counter to the 2-base colossus/void build. Your name would be known all across the world. You might even get a guest spot on the next episode of the show. Anybody here want to be a gaming superstar? This is your big opportunity. Show the world how smart you are.


The best way to counter it is to kill them before they can get there IMO.

I like Hydra/Ling or Roach Burrow timing attacks personally.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


I like one base no creep spread hydra builds personally.


Fixed.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I duno. Roach kills gateway units pretty quickly.


----------



## DoomDash

This weeks state of the game had me laughing a ton:

http://itmejp.blip.tv/file/4827225/

First video one







.


----------



## MacNcheese

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, Z is my best race followed by P and T, but, even then, I still lack in a lot of areas due to lack of playtime. We can probably try though, although, not tonight, I gotta get to bed in < 1hr and got some stuff left to do :/

4-5 colossi will eat a zerg's ground army







Having said that, I think it's somewhat of a mistake to just let a Zerg macro, but, if the Protoss is upgraded with a lot of VRs, colossi and zealots, then I can see why it'll be hard to stop such a deathball










Im still quite interested to see if that counter will work. Anyway Im up for a game. Or a tourny!!


----------



## thiru

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USvqaST6PJ0[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Kind of cheeky, I'd prolly get more of a kick out of it if I heard that song before.

I'm a newcomer to diamond. I recently played vs a no.1 ranked protoss diamond in his division. He went 3 gate forge into extra gateway into blink stalkers at the 930min mark... I did my normal 2 gate robo FE and just completely rolled him after his fancy blink stalker play. I just wonder how did these people get ranked so high without being any good at all...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Kind of cheeky, I'd prolly get more of a kick out of it if I heard that song before.

I'm a newcomer to diamond. I recently played vs a no.1 ranked protoss diamond in his division. He went 3 gate forge into extra gateway into blink stalkers at the 930min mark... I did my normal 2 gate robo FE and just completely rolled him after his fancy blink stalker play. I just wonder how did these people get ranked so high without being any good at all...


Rank in divisions isn't that important.

PS: Thiru that song is awesome.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I've just realized I haven't used my name change... And JeanLucPigrack is the funniest name parody I've ever heard... -_-


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Kind of cheeky, I'd prolly get more of a kick out of it if I heard that song before.

I'm a newcomer to diamond. I recently played vs a no.1 ranked protoss diamond in his division. He went 3 gate forge into extra gateway into blink stalkers at the 930min mark... I did my normal 2 gate robo FE and just completely rolled him after his fancy blink stalker play. I just wonder how did these people get ranked so high without being any good at all...


Due to PvP metagame or just because of poor scouting he assumed you're 4 gating, then scouted your expo and realized he's behind then went all-in with blink stalkers being his best option against colossi?

Btw 2 gate robo is not really viable in PvP so you got kinda lucky.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah people keep on saying that but while i was in the last portion of plat, and now in diamond I have not lost a single pvp, while always going 2 gate robo, against all builds including 85% 4 gate. I assume I'll learn a different lessen playing vs masters.


----------



## DoomDash

3199, fail.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## AblueXKRS

So trying to reset my password with my secret question... Blizzard keeps telling me the secret question is invalid... what?


----------



## DoomDash

ok made it 3213 now... hate being xx99.


----------



## DoomDash

I played the "ali" guy from our oc.net division. I asked if he was from oc.net and he said no....


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12606058*
> I played the "ali" guy from our Overclock.net division. I asked if he was from Overclock.net and he said no....


Weird. Well I removed him. If that was an error, just add yourself again and tell us.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12606489*
> Weird. Well I removed him. If that was an error, just add yourself again and tell us.


w00t I moved up a spot without even doing anything!


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't get the logic behind random team games matchmaking system. I'm in a team: diamond, platinum, platinum against platinum, gold, silver and it says they're slightly favoured. Then I'm in diamond, platinum silver, against masters, diamond, diamond and it says match even... I've also already seen people in gold 1v1 with 3v3/4v4 masters. What a joke.


----------



## shremi

So after waiting a long time i finally got a hold of this game and i am dying to try it out.

But the @$$!!"Â· seller is telling me that he wont get the code until sunday morning.

If anyone has a trial code out there would you be kind enough to share it.

Thanks and hope to see yall soon in game.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I don't get the logic behind random team games matchmaking system. I'm in a team: diamond, platinum, platinum against platinum, gold, silver and it says they're slightly favoured. Then I'm in diamond, platinum silver, against masters, diamond, diamond and it says match even... I've also already seen people in gold 1v1 with 3v3/4v4 masters. What a joke.


What I was thinking as well. On ladder I get more points for beating lower level players than higher level players. It is very odd.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shremi*


So after waiting a long time i finally got a hold of this game and i am dying to try it out.

But the @$$!!"Â· seller is telling me that he wont get the code until sunday morning.

If anyone has a trial code out there would you be kind enough to share it.

Thanks and hope to see yall soon in game.


If nobody has one, there's a free demo. Can't play online though I think.


----------



## BigFan

Anyone interested in a game in an hour or two from now?


----------



## KittensMewMew

I just got into Gold in the weirdest game ever! Yay!


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You're welcome to explain why that game was so weird.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Blizzard's Dustin Browder today:

"The Reaper not in a happy place. It was a bit of a mis-step for us. The players showed us what it was capable of and we nerfed it into obscurity."

Yay. I'm so looking forward to the return of reapers. Terran has really struggled without them. So nice to see Blizzard is on top of the situation. Reaper buff is exactly what TvZ needs for better balance. That, and tweaking bunker timing and battlecruiser movement speed.


----------



## falco216

They better give Zerg something to handle reapers better than roaches then, one fast reaper is still too strong.

Terran already has a 53% win rate vs Zerg and a 59% win rate vs protoss, they don't need any buffs...

Edit: I was wrong, Terran doesn't have a 55% win rate vs Protoss, it's 59%, my bad. :|


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12616165*
> Blizzard's Dustin Browder today:
> 
> "The Reaper not in a happy place. It was a bit of a mis-step for us. The players showed us what it was capable of and we nerfed it into obscurity."
> 
> Yay. I'm so looking forward to the return of reapers. Terran has really struggled without them. So nice to see Blizzard is on top of the situation. Reaper buff is exactly what TvZ needs for better balance. That, and tweaking bunker timing and battlecruiser movement speed.


Interesting


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12616568*
> Interesting


Pathetic, more like it. With all the glaring issues with balance in this game, Browder expresses sadness about the reaper nerf being too strong. What is wrong with him? Meanwhile he continues to ignore the multiple elephants in the room, the biggest being this thing called the MARINE.


----------



## DoomDash

Marine is nice the way it is.

Anyway, BigFan Crysis 2 has issues and every time I accept your friend request your name disappears from my friends list. What a POS.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12616989*
> Marine is nice the way it is.
> 
> Anyway, BigFan Crysis 2 has issues and every time I accept your friend request your name disappears from my friends list. What a POS.


hmm, well it says you are offline now instead of waiting for friends list request, login in now, maybe it's working









Edit: Make sure to actually click the accept. What I mean is, I noticed that if you put the mouse cursor over the cancel, it's like remove. Make sure to have the mouse a bit lower and have the accept button, etc... highlighted slightly before clicking otherwise it might be the deny button or remove button, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

If you see me on send me a game invite and another friend request and accept. I guess.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12617014*
> If you see me on send me a game invite and another friend request and accept. I guess.


I see you online, sending invite atm.

Edit: Sent it like 6-7 times, rofl. Hoping it's actually going. If not, try adding me yourself again, search friend, bigfan, add and try sending me an invite


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I've done that like 5 times already. This demo has been nothing but a nightmare for things like this. I'm still trying.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12617063*
> Yeah I've done that like 5 times already. This demo has been nothing but a nightmare for things like this. I'm still trying.


k, re-adding you now









Edit: I tried connecting to game, connection failed. Is your game full? Maybe if/me can join a 10/12 server, we can then both connect to it instead. Have a feeling this demo was released because of the uproar of the 360 demo and leak.

Edit2: Joining a game atm, try joining now.


----------



## DoomDash

I will join a game again, try and join.


----------



## BigFan

That was fun. I liked that game where I killed you 5 times in a row and that other one where you didn't get a kill in







Having said that, I would say you killed me a lot more than I killed you


----------



## DoomDash

Thiru, I accepted your request, then the same thing that happened with BigFan happened. You just disappeared from my friends list.

PS: BigFan is a dirty camper. Not only did I find him just sitting generally on top of some perch waiting to dirty camp someone, he would do it cloaked half the time. Meanwhile I'm out ramboing and winning the games







.

Last game I went 14:1







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12617657*
> Thiru, I accepted your request, then the same thing that happened with BigFan happened. You just disappeared from my friends list.
> 
> PS: BigFan is a dirty camper. Not only did I find him just sitting generally on top of some perch waiting to dirty camp someone, he would do it cloaked half the time. *Meanwhile I'm out ramboing and winning the games*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Last game I went 14:1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


What are you talking about? I use cloak a lot indeed, but, going 5-0 against you that one game, I was always out in the open







I also tried the different classes, I think assault, possibly covert are my best two. Scout was my last game, see how that went, rofl. The first 2 games I would say you killed me a lot, every corner there you were, but, I got some kills in myself in the others ones to somewhat balance it out







rofl @ ramboing it though, me and the other guy took out your team of 3, 8-2 easy before we had others joining in


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but every time I died, you were literally somewhere in a doorway, on top of a glass house, sitting perfectly still. I think I ran into you outside once or twice and one of them I tried to melee you but came up 1 hit short.

Still I was wrecking everyone, but I normally do. Lots of streaks.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't see you folks in the channel, are you guys playing right now?

Was having a few practice matches for the luls with a zerg friend. Last game of the night turned out to be 50 min long:



Let me know if you guys play on bnet (msg Bullit). I'd like to spec if possible.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12617690*
> Yeah but every time I died, you were literally somewhere in a doorway, on top of a glass house, sitting perfectly still. I think I ran into you outside once or twice and one of them I tried to melee you but came up 1 hit short.
> 
> Still I was wrecking everyone, but I normally do. Lots of streaks.


I dunno, I mean I don't know the maps well, so, I kept on moving around. In most of them, I try to get to the highest point to get vision of the field then move from there. It just so happens that you are walking under me those times or nearby and then I kill you XD I wish I could record the games to watch them, but, that's what I recall. I was also moving slowly instead of my usual jump in and get killed routine, rofl. Would explain why my k/d ratio was much better than usual








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12617699*
> I don't see you folks in the channel, are you guys playing right now?
> 
> Was having a few practice matches for the luls with a zerg friend. Last game of the night turned out to be 50 min long:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if you guys play on bnet (msg Bullit). I'd like to spec if possible.


Actually, we were just playing the crysis 2 demo. Had some interesting battles









Edit: Forgot to mention that the same thing happened with me as well thiru. Went to accept, then somehow got removed







I readded you, so, you just need to accept that and then we can probably get into a 9/12 server or something, since, the send invite button seems to be broken :/


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Crysis 2???


----------



## thiru

Just join the overclock channel and ask around.

edit: I have both of you in my friends list right now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12617874*
> Crysis 2???


yep, crysis 2 demo. It was released 3 days ago, March 1. I joined his game and we ended up on opposite teams. One of our games, I kept running into him and raking up the kills. It was pretty reminiscent of the first game I played against him


----------



## DoomDash

I hope that the multiplayer friends list / screen name making is better on release. I still don't have Thiru / BigFan showing up. As long as you guys can see me on though you can just join my games and arrange it on here.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12617961*
> I hope that the multiplayer friends list / screen name making is better on release. I still don't have Thiru / BigFan showing up. As long as you guys can see me on though you can just join my games and arrange it on here.


True, I can see you just fine. Thiru is a different story, still need him to accept


----------



## DoomDash

God my TvZ is so sloppy. I win game 2 I think. These are not on Shukarus but stupid gamereplays has no previews.





Also BigFan, this game is going to be EPIC:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0vL-MZapc[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


God *my TvZ is so sloppy*. I win game 2 I think. These are not on Shukarus but stupid gamereplays has no previews.





Also BigFan, this game is going to be EPIC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0vL-MZapc


then work on it









That game will be EPIC though. Saw any earlier fatality trailer, soooo bloody XD Too bad I don't have either a 360 or PS3 :/


----------



## lucmitch

is starcraft 2 safe to play now? I mean it wont overheat the video card, right?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lucmitch*


is starcraft 2 safe to play now? I mean it wont overheat the video card, right?


You can limit the fps to reduce the heat generated by your gpu rendering the loading screen at xxx fps. It was safe to play from day one provided you keep your fan at like 65% or so to lower temps


----------



## yellowtoblerone

BigFan: hey
You: hey
BigFan has disconnected.
You: just watching doom's replays
BigFan is not online.

...


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


BigFan: hey
You: hey
BigFan has disconnected.
You: just watching doom's replays
BigFan is not online.

...


He hates you, that's all. Don't worry too much about it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


BigFan: hey
You: hey
BigFan has disconnected.
You: just watching doom's replays
BigFan is not online.

...


rofl, well, I got disconnected and couldn't connect back since I get the play offline message(net is being a pain atm)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


He hates you, that's all. Don't worry too much about it.


rofl


----------



## snowful

wow...3000 pts diamond.
You have my respect Doom XD


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lucmitch*


is starcraft 2 safe to play now? I mean it wont overheat the video card, right?


Yes, they fixed that glitch quite a while ago.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *snowful*


wow...3000 pts diamond.
You have my respect Doom XD


He's actually in masters


----------



## thiru

I just watched Jediwin's stream for a bit and they were playing 4v4 while speaking Korean (or something)









edit: oh he is Korean. Explains his leet skills


----------



## audioxbliss

Any interest in a tournament here? 1v1, pretty standard. Put up a thread here:

http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/95...ournament.html

Post if you're interested









If there's enough interest, I'll post full rules and such and have votes on some rules I'm iffy about.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucmitch;12621633*
> is starcraft 2 safe to play now? I mean it wont overheat the video card, right?


Don't worry about it. You have a GTX460. Those cards run cool even when maxed out.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12623572*
> I just watched Jediwin's stream for a bit and they were playing 4v4 while speaking Korean (or something)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: oh he is Korean. Explains his leet skills


rofl


----------



## audioxbliss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12623572*
> edit: oh he is Korean. Explains his leet skills


I'm Korean... I don't have leet skillz...


----------



## yks

TSL 3 brackets


----------



## Neokolzia

Anyone else think if you win a 2v1 or a 3v1... or in my case a 4v1 you should get some sort of bonus?

Technically wasn't a 4v1 from the start but first 10 minutes other 3 got rushed and I moved to the island and built up Air defense and BC's and managed to pull off a win due to having 9000 Anti-Air Turrets, and Secret nukers =D

But I imagine it happens fairly often and don't really get much credit for it?


----------



## DoomDash

TSL 3 will be amazing.


----------



## thiru

What are they gonna do for the Korean lag?


----------



## yks

Koreans need some type of handicap!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12628302*
> Koreans need some type of handicap!


Make every one of them play zerg.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12628483*
> Make every one of them play zerg.


Your pessimism is bad. Zerg is OP.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12628595*
> Your pessimism is bad. Zerg is OP.


Okay. Then have Koreans play Terran and forbid them to use any MULEs. They wanna throw away hellions and marines by the bushel? Fine. But let them mine minerals to pay for that.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12627683*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TSL 3 brackets


NICE. Adelscott is coming.

Had no idea haypro was swedish.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Is there any way to watch the GSL in the States? Preferably online, seeing as I have a terrible channel selection.

Also I thought Idra 'retired'. Or am I confusing him with someone else?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12629472*
> Is there any way to watch the GSL in the States? Preferably online, seeing as I have a terrible channel selection.
> 
> Also I thought Idra 'retired'. Or am I confusing him with someone else?


You can watch the GSL on gomtv.net.
Idra didn't retire, he just moved back to the US.


----------



## yks

My jaw is freaking killing me, I think it's wisdom tooth time.


----------



## Ruckol1

Me too, I've been having random bursts of pain over the the past couple months.


----------



## DoomDash

I lost 5 in a row yesterday when I should have been sleeping







. Maybe back to grinding.


----------



## slytown

I miss Jinro. Why did he lose last week?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What is this wisdom teeth thing people talk about? I never had natural tooth pains before.


----------



## DoomDash

Me neither







. Though I had to get a tooth pulled w/ no insurance this summer ( couldnt even sleep ). Had it done at a college by dentist students. Fun times.


----------



## Mwarren

I have 2 wisdom teeth that need to be pulled myself. Ever look into just getting them temporarily filled?


----------



## Nihsnek

Wisdom teeth suck..just get them pulled now and save yourself future problems.

PS: If anyone is new to SC2 (I'm a few weeks new and still learning a lot) hit me up for some games. I'm still in "practice league". My name is Kenshoni.842


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12633323*
> I lost 5 in a row yesterday when I should have been sleeping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Maybe back to grinding.


Losing 5 in a row? I am disappoint


----------



## RealEyes

I wanto join a clan.

Can haz?

sudo can-haz clan?


----------



## DoomDash

I am back higher than my score was now to please you BigFan.


----------



## DoomDash

yks this match is for you. I get totally destroyed this game, not even close. His build was super interesting. 1 gate to stargate to expand? He was like 3450~. That's kind of a cool build. I didn't hit right when I had stim because the void rays make me hesitant until I feel safe with marine count. I think his entire goal is to use them to expand more than to kill. Later on they become a useful army addition because they do exactly what phoenix builds do, and force vikings to shoot voids instead of Colossi. Very cool stuff.


----------



## thiru

Gonna take a look at that. I hate being forced to 1base against terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Apparently GOMTV has their own youtube channel now, 720p.

http://www.youtube.com/gomtvnet/

ZERG PLAYERS MUST LOOK:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0RLKroMJrc&[/ame]


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I can't help thinking this bracket is rigged to get a zerg into the semis. There are only 9 zergs in the tourney and they stuffed 4 of them into the lower right region. There are 11 terrans in the tourney and only ONE is in the lower right region. Looks like somebody wanted to facilitate the creation of ZvZ matchups over there and avoid TvZ's. I guess it would be somewhat embarrassing if all the zergs got eliminated too early, so they rig things to prevent it.


----------



## thiru

They explained how they seeded the players.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12639845*
> 
> I can't help thinking this bracket is rigged to get a zerg into the semis. There are only 9 zergs in the tourney and they stuffed 4 of them into the lower right region. There are 11 terrans in the tourney and only ONE is in the lower right region. Looks like somebody wanted to facilitate the creation of ZvZ matchups over there and avoid TvZ's. I guess it would be somewhat embarrassing if all the zergs got eliminated too early, so they rig things to prevent it.


----------



## yks

Brackets posted a few pages ago and the seeding was explained.

Tyler, Sen, Mondragon (1P, 2Zs) get the best spots cause they were ranked 1-3 in TSL2

Qualifiers then get seeded, Point qualifiers then get seeded

No conspiracy. Past couple weeks you've been putting zerg down with your pessimism. That is the wrong attitude.

With your "LOGIC" look @ bottom left, there's 4 TERRANS OMG, THEY WANT TVT and want to avoid ZVT/PVT, ZOMG OZMG THEY HATE TERRAN


----------



## PixelFreakz

Hey anyone have any strategies for zerg for the new 4v4 map?My teammates dont listen to me to move out early... and when I spawn where the rocks are I just get overrun by stalkers early colossi and marines. Suggestions? I'm a #2 ranked Silver 4v4 random


----------



## DoomDash

speedlings.... banes if marines. Speedlings and avoid armies.


----------



## yks

Teams games: Mass tier 1 win.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12640308*
> Teams games: Mass tier 1 win.


13 gate opening for cella.

WHo's watching gsl atm?


----------



## DoomDash

I will be.


----------



## yks

iam


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's going on... they're just a bunch of short people dancing and singing..


----------



## yks

doesn't start til like 1:10 PST.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What's going on... they're just a bunch of short people dancing and singing..


That's just the pre game show.


----------



## PixelFreakz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12640265*
> speedlings.... banes if marines. Speedlings and avoid armies.


Bah. then they just blinkstalk my ramp for the rest of the short game while my idiot allies are like moarProbe!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PixelFreakz*


Bah. then they just blinkstalk my ramp for the rest of the short game while my idiot allies are like moarProbe!!










blink stalk? wut? slings > stalkers.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Talk about a disappointing end to huk's run.


----------



## PixelFreakz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


blink stalk? wut? slings > stalkers.


Maybe I just dont have great micro







Slings only are so good against stalkers... Esp when theres two guys warping in stalks in front and my allies dont help. I then the mass marines come and its all over.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PixelFreakz;12640876*
> Maybe I just dont have great micro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slings only are so good against stalkers... Esp when theres two guys warping in stalks in front and my allies dont help. I then the mass marines come and its all over.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I just watched Jediwin's stream for a bit and they were playing 4v4 while speaking Korean (or something)









edit: oh he is Korean. Explains his leet skills










lol. busted!









could you add my stream to the main page. i want more viewers! topped out at 3 this weekend


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12642693*
> lol. busted!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> could you add my stream to the main page. i want more viewers! topped out at 3 this weekend


You need to get it listed on TL!!


----------



## rhed5

I am listed; just not featured, so I never have any viewers.


----------



## vdek

Why am I showing up as Sain? ***

http://sc2ranks.com/us/848774/Sain


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12645042*
> Why am I showing up as Sain? ***
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/848774/Sain


Yeah and I'm showing up as Ernsitoll or something. ***?


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12646569*
> Yeah and I'm showing up as Ernsitoll or something. ***?


Apparently you can rename people...


----------



## Allenssmart

Have absolutely no friggin idea how I lost:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147321-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk

TvP Shattered Temple, this guy was silver too. I completely outmacroed this guy, on 2 base + 1 gold. 60 supply ahead, with 65 scvs vs 35 probes, 2700 min income vs his 1120, mins never went above 600 until the last minute of the game where I raged so hard I just left my computer. I said gl hf at the beginning but I didn't gg, sorry. I just thought this guy did not deserve to win. Can anyone help me? Thanks!


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12646988*
> Have absolutely no friggin idea how I lost:
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147321-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk
> 
> TvP Shattered Temple, this guy was silver too. I completely outmacroed this guy, on 2 base + 1 gold. 60 supply ahead, with 65 scvs vs 35 probes, 2700 min income vs his 1120, mins never went above 600 until the last minute of the game where I raged so hard I just left my computer. I said gl hf at the beginning but I didn't gg, sorry. I just thought this guy did not deserve to win. Can anyone help me? Thanks!


1. too many scvs
2. your army was separated and your marines were slaughtered before your thors joined the fight.
3. *** were you doing using thors against toss?
4. why did the protoss have 3 colossi without range against terran.

In general shoddy game play from both players but idk what league you are both in so this is probably standard. Bio balls become extremely weak once toss gets multiple colossi up as they will melt in seconds, you need to apply earlier pressure or get an anti colossi unit such as vikings. You should not go thor against toss as they are expensive but not particularly useful.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;12647115*
> 1. too many scvs
> 2. your army was separated and your marines were slaughtered before your thors joined the fight.
> 3. *** were you doing using thors against toss?
> 4. why did the protoss have 3 colossi without range against terran.
> 
> In general shoddy game play from both players but idk what league you are both in so this is probably standard. Bio balls become extremely weak once toss gets multiple colossi up as they will melt in seconds, you need to apply earlier pressure or get an anti colossi unit such as vikings. You should not go thor against toss as they are expensive but not particularly useful.


1. 65 is NOT too many scvs.
2. yeah, big mistake there i guess
3. So Jinro is bad?
4. i don't know, ask him.

so what league are you if this gameplay is so shoody?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

65 is not enough scvs for most games on NA ladder
I have colossi without range vs terran all the time. I have yet to loose a game vs terran in diamond.

You just made too many mistakes, while thinking you were at crit mass before he was. He was a 4 cols that just wiped your army while your thors were out of position, while his void ray and zealot tanked the damage. you didn't even stim. You also have to realize toss has a more efficient army that what you had.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12638399*
> yks this match is for you. I get totally destroyed this game, not even close. His build was super interesting. 1 gate to stargate to expand? He was like 3450~. That's kind of a cool build. I didn't hit right when I had stim because the void rays make me hesitant until I feel safe with marine count. I think his entire goal is to use them to expand more than to kill. Later on they become a useful army addition because they do exactly what phoenix builds do, and force vikings to shoot voids instead of Colossi. Very cool stuff.


But if you were to timing attack on one base while he was fe-ing you would've won the game. BaSICALLy the entire game he was just macroing on 2gate star first then 3 gate star robo.


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12647247*
> 1. 65 is NOT too many scvs.
> 2. yeah, big mistake there i guess
> 3. So Jinro is bad?
> 4. i don't know, ask him.
> 
> so what league are you if this gameplay is so shoody?


I am diamond league, and yes 65 is too many scvs on 3 base as terran especially when all of your energy is going into mules. I would bet that jinro was fighting a toss with a different unit make up. If the toss has lots of phoenix then by all means go thor but if he has 1 air unit then 3 factory thor production is a terrible use of money.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12646988*
> Have absolutely no friggin idea how I lost:
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147321-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk
> 
> TvP Shattered Temple, this guy was silver too. I completely outmacroed this guy, on 2 base + 1 gold. 60 supply ahead, with 65 scvs vs 35 probes, 2700 min income vs his 1120, mins never went above 600 until the last minute of the game where I raged so hard I just left my computer. I said gl hf at the beginning but I didn't gg, sorry. I just thought this guy did not deserve to win. Can anyone help me? Thanks!


Well played for a silver level. Your scv production and expansion timing was really good. You mainly lost due to very unfortunate attack angle. It happens. I'm also not sure, but I think you might have clicked move instead of attack-move during the engagement at some point. Make sure you always always attack move with your units unless you're retreating or something.

Besides that you didn't really outmacroed protoss as much as you may think. Sure you were 50 food ahead, but half of this were SCVs (btw you could have brought some to the fight with auto-repair following your thors). If you looked at the army value protoss actually invested more in his units than you, which was possible because he cut so many probes.

I think that strategically you didn't really have a reason to attack. You had econ lead anyway and you just lost quite a few units in unfavorable exchange. You should have scanned his third to see if he's expanded and just sit on your three bases adding units (preferably some vikings or banshees, since you could afford it) and upgrades, maybe doing a drop or two in the meanwhile.


----------



## Ruckol1

Someone give me improvement tips and such on my mmm defense here please;









http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145389-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns


----------



## thiru

The last thing you should be telling someone in silver league is that he has too many SCVs... nice job btw.

Anyway, it looks like you lost, as others mentioned, because your army was separated. Don't leave parts of your army isolated like that unless you can spot threats on the minimap immediately, just leave a single marine.

Also your reaction was bad too, you backed up (well this part is good), grouped up and sent your army back to the middle. By the time they got there, the hellions and marines/marauders were ahead of your thors, and they got slaughtered (again).

I'm not familiar with terran mech in TvP, but I'm guessing that marines and marauders have higher DPS than thors, and thors have huge health (and are reparable), so maybe you should put your thors in front?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Esp when pros get up to 80-90 in 15 minutes. Jhinro's build is thor/helion/banshee +mm backup. It has worked on ladder I've seen. Macro is just a part of the game. How units are positioned is very important to for those army trading battles.



I haven't played ladder in a while so I though to have a bit of fun in this PvT game. Warp prisms are fun.


----------



## KittensMewMew

When I get Thors I like to have them as my "move" control group, with every other unit trailing behind them on follow except for hellions, who can sneak behind them fast anyways. Then when I do get to an encounter, I do a quick seige-up from my tanks in the back, while the marines and hellions I have are sandwiched in between the tanks and Thors, and have banshees/vikings poking at colossi. The majority of your damage against ground will come from the tanks, the thors will take the brunt of the damage against ground, and the marines/hellions will prevent mass zealot/immortal from demolishing your thors. This is how it should work if you're going to go mech against protoss from what I understand- I saw a youtube video of a guy showing some simple formations (like X unit goes behind Y unit) and how it can really make your build shine.

Edit: It's not always going to be perfect, but it almost always helps to have your thors leading- whether you're facing sling/bling/muta or a gateway/colossi combo. They soak up so much damage despite the fact they don't kill things very fast on their own.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I went on a tear on ladder today:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I went on a tear on ladder today:











Ouch


----------



## DoomDash

Dang! Sorry I know how that feels.


----------



## DoomDash

My 1.3 TvZ build is going to be BRUTAL. I already have been screwing Z up with the sloppy non-1.3 version of it.


----------



## thiru

You have a battlecruiser build?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *thiru*   You have a battlecruiser build?  
Yes sir, but its actually really good even before BC, though like all builds has a few weak points.

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Epic ending.

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...-retrospective


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OMG..... who will kill the pylon first

MC's micro is crazy..


----------



## thiru

That was a pretty fun moment.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow that was epic.


----------



## Vermillion

Crazy game.

Cant wait for JulyZerg!!!!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do you guys have the link to paste into gomtv player? The player's broken again.

THanks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vermillion*


Crazy game.

Cant wait for JulyZerg!!!!


Can't wait for Nada!!!!!

Hey you're from WI? Where?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Do you guys have the link to paste into gomtv player? The player's broken again.

THanks.


I just use VLC. Use this and save the link for future use.


----------



## Vermillion

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Can't wait for Nada!!!!!

Hey you're from WI? Where?


Watertown.









Frigging Terran is going DOWWWWN


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFr-sZ0SVo&[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12654453*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFr-sZ0SVo&


Repost..... I believe


----------



## DoomDash

303 views, I think not.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12647415*
> 65 is not enough scvs for most games on NA ladder
> I have colossi without range vs terran all the time. I have yet to loose a game vs terran in diamond.
> 
> You just made too many mistakes, while thinking you were at crit mass before he was. He was a 4 cols that just wiped your army while your thors were out of position, while his void ray and zealot tanked the damage. you didn't even stim. You also have to realize toss has a more efficient army that what you had.
> 
> But if you were to timing attack on one base while he was fe-ing you would've won the game. BaSICALLy the entire game he was just macroing on 2gate star first then 3 gate star robo.


Is achilles using a well-known build here? If so what is it?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12654945*
> 303 views, I think not.


Maybe, maybe not


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12647813*
> Someone give me improvement tips and such on my mmm defense here please;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145389-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns


No love?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12638399*
> yks this match is for you. I get totally destroyed this game, not even close. His build was super interesting. 1 gate to stargate to expand? He was like 3450~. That's kind of a cool build. I didn't hit right when I had stim because the void rays make me hesitant until I feel safe with marine count. I think his entire goal is to use them to expand more than to kill. Later on they become a useful army addition because they do exactly what phoenix builds do, and force vikings to shoot voids instead of Colossi. Very cool stuff.


I think you were way too passive this entire game. Protoss opening was quite risky and was successful because of you playing too safe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12656366*
> No love?


You won.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12656682*
> I think you were way too passive this entire game. Protoss opening was quite risky and was successful because of you playing too safe.
> 
> You won.


I mean, you could be right... but what I thought was good about his build is it gave me that feeling that it was too risky to attack into? If I had the chance to do it again I would try to be more aggressive, or at least get a 2nd reactor up for my 2nd port. .


----------



## poroboszcz

Btw one thing about void rays, now since the speed has been removed you can kite them endlessly with vikings without taking any damage.


----------



## wuddersup

I'm making a blog to document funny rage moments from sc2... check it out everyone!

http://www.starcraftrage.com


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I know bronze players such as myself aren't supposed to be good, but honestly some are terrible. He thought that he could float his command centre away and start again, and claimed to have won "quite a few games" doing it...

He'd won 100 games of 350, I believe.


Stop putting yourself down, work at it and you can get promoted









@DoomDash Updating quake live atm, username is same as on here. Should be interesting to see how well the game plays and looks


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12654887*
> Repost..... I believe


Nah that one is new.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12656366*
> No love?


If you want useful advice, it's better to show replay where you lost, and where you don't know why you lost, or how to improve.
Otherwise we could give you advice you don't particularly agree with and you'd think "but I won anyway so...." (and obviously your flaws are more visible when you lose).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Nah that one is new.

If you want useful advice, it's better to show replay where you lost, and where you don't know why you lost, or how to improve.
Otherwise we could give you advice you don't particularly agree with and you'd think "but I won anyway so...." (and obviously your flaws are more visible when you lose).


ok, I do recall someone posting up something similar, but, I guess its not the same









Just played a quick match with bots in Quake Live. Interesting game and runs on my laptop as well which is a big bonus


----------



## DoomDash

Cool I'll probably be able to play in a little bit if you're still on. My SN is DoomDash no surprise.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12662509*
> Cool I'll probably be able to play in a little bit if you're still on. *My SN is DoomDash no surprise*.


Unfortunately, read this too late, but, I'll be playing tommorrow. I'll make a mention here and hopefully, you'll see it in time








@Bolded No way, you mean you have the same SN like how I used the same SN myself across all my games, lol, joking


----------



## DoomDash

Well I actually have SupraDoom or Doom- some other places.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12664030*
> Well I actually have SupraDoom or Doom- some other places.


I'm sure you do(I also have other names myself), mostly making a joke


----------



## falco216

Added myself to the sc2ranks OCN division. My sc2 name is Fishbulb.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/714996/Fishbulb


----------



## yellowtoblerone

around 400 games played and your already in masters..

some people are too good.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;12654965*
> Is achilles using a well-known build here? If so what is it?


It's the new and now popular 3 gate into phoe and col build. It's been doing great in PvP on ladder too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12664428*
> around 400 games played and your already in masters..
> 
> some people are too good.
> 
> It's the new and now popular 3 gate into phoe and col build. It's been doing great in PvP on ladder too.


What? it was a 1gate stargate expand.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;12664299*
> Added myself to the sc2ranks OCN division. My sc2 name is Fishbulb.
> 
> http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/714996/Fishbulb


Welcome, GG as well.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12664657*
> What? it was a 1gate stargate expand.


I was talking in general in terms of which path he went.

Which players are playing tonight in the GSL?


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12664664*
> Welcome, GG as well.


Thanks! gg wp in our 1v1 game.









...Thors make me QQ.


----------



## thiru

Welcome

The games will be Leenock vs Losira and Alicia vs Supernova.


----------



## DoomDash

Updated:


----------



## yellowtoblerone

How did you compile that list?

Lennock is going to destroy losira I bet.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

my words, I'm eating them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12665834*
> How did you compile that list?
> 
> Lennock is going to destroy losira I bet.


SC2Gears bro!









http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah I just didn't know how to open it.

This is a very good tool. But I don't think it's very accurate. Esp when I lost like 10+ in a roll day ago.


----------



## DoomDash

Mine is just my ladder stats. It would be much higher with all my games.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Terrans... So op, can even build CC in enemy base, and then get another expo right after..

Yeah I don't play any customs games either. 1v1 Ladder is where it's at.


----------



## DoomDash

If that's just your ladder %'s you must have a sick win %.....

and be getting promoted soon?


----------



## DoomDash

lol @ qxc's NASL application video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqOIVSPUV0k&[/ame]


----------



## yks

i love the huk and idra subliminals.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is it still uploading? It's kind of hard to read at night at 480p. Who are his rivals? I get the leather but not the pad and pillow.










That tool is very cool

Still in diamond, but only recently in the last lil while hit ladder hard. I would like to get to masters but some people in diamond are still very good. They're coming up with new builds too. Even though I heard about the phoenix col build in pvp, when I first saw it vs my robo build I didn't know how to counter it. I didn't want to do the same thing but wanted to fully counter it. Instead got crushed.


----------



## thiru

Who's the Nintendo joystick supposed to mean?


----------



## DoomDash

Pillow is huk.

I don't know the Nintendo one either.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12666240*
> Pillow is huk.
> 
> I don't know the Nintendo one either.


Mmh.


----------



## DoomDash

3300+ Masters w000.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12666700*
> 3300+ Masters w000.


You going GM when it comes out ?









Any news on a time frame for GM patch?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12667790*
> You going GM when it comes out ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any news on a time frame for GM patch?


I'm going to try ( 671 players to go ). I don't know when 1.3 goes live.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12666200*
> Is it still uploading? It's kind of hard to read at night at 480p. Who are his rivals? I get the leather but not the pad and pillow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That tool is very cool
> 
> Still in diamond, but only recently in the last lil while hit ladder hard. I would like to get to masters but some people in diamond are still very good. They're coming up with new builds too. Even though I heard about the phoenix col build in pvp, when I first saw it vs my robo build I didn't know how to counter it. I didn't want to do the same thing but wanted to fully counter it. Instead got crushed.


Why not invent your own build, test it out in customs to see how well it works, etc.... You don't need to be a pro to invite one








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12667903*
> I'm going to try ( 671 players to go ). I don't know when 1.3 goes live.


Thing is, GM is calculated around MMR among other things, so, it's hard to tell where one can be placed


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOz5R-M3Ps[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Why does artosis always look like a nerd to me

Here's question: how does charge zealot + ht and carriers on 3 bases in PvZ and PvT sound...


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan getting tore up in QL.







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12675039*
> BigFan getting tore up in QL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


lol, I am, oops, I mean I was. Those guys are really hardcore. Having said that, the first game, half of my deaths was due to falling off the platform and the other maps, I found them rather narrow, but, don't mind it either way


----------



## DoomDash

Quake is a lot different than most new school FPS games.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Ready for another night of GSL. What happened to the OCN chat channel on Bnet?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678362*
> Ready for another night of GSL. What happened to the OCN chat channel on Bnet?


What do you mean what happened? Still there and kicking. Randomly active. I'm almost always idle at least.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hmm did I get banned from the channel or something? I click on overclock.net but nothing opens. It's been like that for the last day or so.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678395*
> Hmm did I get banned from the channel or something? I click on overclock.net but nothing opens. It's been like that for the last day or so.


Not sure, but I think there is a chat channel bug going around. I see some people half in the channel. I also had a friend say he couldn't get in another channel, and we all saw his SN in the channel but it looked odd. So, sounds like a glitch. I would look for a post on it on battle.net.

In fact you were the guy I saw like that in the channel... but I just looked and you seem to be in there for real now.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I keep double clicking or single clicking it but I'm never in that channel.

I really like how sanZen's playing right now


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Okay that was crazy.


----------



## DoomDash

No amulet is going to make me a happy boy.


----------



## EmMure

lol doomdash likes mudkips


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No amu would make Terran so op in the TvP matchup.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678521*
> No amu would make Terran so op in the TvP matchup.


They should make amulet still there with 70 starting energy.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think most of us would agree to that. You wouldn't want a BC that has canon right away.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678556*
> I think most of us would agree to that. You wouldn't want a BC that has canon right away.


A cannon that kills everrrythinggggggg







.


----------



## XiCynx

Just thought I'd make a single post in here. Played the game a lot back when it came out... none of my friends wound up getting it though. I do have a couple of awesome videos though you can add them to the OP of you want. Not the best of quality, but definitely good enough for xfire.

Beat and Insane AI in under 3 minutes
http://www.xfire.com/video/3652e1/

Good come from behind Zerg Victory(forgot to get out of mumble channel)
http://www.xfire.com/video/36d380/

2v2 Cannon Rush(Always good fun)
http://www.xfire.com/video/366581/


----------



## DoomDash

None of my friends ended up staying to play either so I made new ones ( online ones ) lol.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Ha!

I can't believe I made carrier + ht/chargelots work vs zerg. He wasn't the best macro player though.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *†Blade†;12678629*
> Just thought I'd make a single post in here. Played the game a lot back when it came out... none of my friends wound up getting it though. I do have a couple of awesome videos though you can add them to the OP of you want. Not the best of quality, but definitely good enough for xfire.
> 
> Beat and Insane AI in under 3 minutes
> http://www.xfire.com/video/3652e1/
> 
> Good come from behind Zerg Victory(forgot to get out of mumble channel)
> http://www.xfire.com/video/36d380/
> 
> 2v2 Cannon Rush(Always good fun)
> http://www.xfire.com/video/366581/










I mostly put newbie resources in the OP though.

If you're looking for people to play with, check the 'overclock.net' channel in game


----------



## yellowtoblerone

44 min into this TvP and it's still not over.

SanZen is out of gas I hear. SC might take this.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678658*
> Ha!
> 
> I can't believe I made carrier + ht/chargelots work vs zerg. He wasn't the best macro player though.
> 
> [imag]http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-194942.jpg[/img]


That unit composition was literally unstoppable back when corrupters had energy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12678743*
> 44 min into this TvP and it's still not over.
> 
> SanZen is out of gas I hear. SC might take this.


Awesome game.


----------



## DoomDash

this series is nuts.


----------



## thiru

Hot damn.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Unbelievable. I can't believe missed the last match. I assume SZ won. That series was already epic.

I thought I had enough time to squeeze in a game. I ended up playing for 49 min:



All my units left in the game:


----------



## DoomDash

Nice amount of kills. I've had a Thor with 40+ Kills of Zealots and stalkers....


----------



## DoomDash

GSL Results:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The reign of Terran dominance comes to an end. Protoss now takes the torch of power! No Terrans in the top 4 :O !


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12678655*
> None of my friends ended up staying to play either so I made new ones ( online ones ) lol.


Hey me too


----------



## DoomDash

I love this build. I haven't had a chance to work in BC recently yet though... wins too much







.


----------



## QuadDamage

How come u guys don't want to cyber on the overclock channel? What gives? Is it my sliver level? Do I need to be Masters to get some action








haha


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm going to play more ladder I have been beating gold and plat players in none ranked as of late, but I always get matched up with plat level players that give me a hard time. My micro needs work.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;12682436*
> I'm going to play more ladder I have been beating gold and plat players in none ranked as of late, but I always get matched up with plat level players that give me a hard time. My micro needs work.


What race do you play?


----------



## thiru

Changes in the PTR:

Ghost EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged
Infestor Health increased from 90 to 110. -- This change has been revoked.
Fungal Growth Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast. -- This change has been revoked.

Also some of these NASL videos are pretty funny


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12680257*
> 
> 
> I love this build. I haven't had a chance to work in BC recently yet though... wins too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


He mad. He also messed up too much.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12686369*
> Changes in the PTR:
> 
> Ghost EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged
> Infestor Health increased from 90 to 110. -- This change has been revoked.
> Fungal Growth Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast. -- This change has been revoked.
> 
> *Also some of these NASL videos are pretty funny*


Link?s


----------



## thiru

https://www.facebook.com/nasltv

You may have to remove the 's' in 'https' if you don't have secured browsing enabled.


----------



## poroboszcz

I had a job interview today when I got to talk about SC2 for like 10 minutes lol.
The best job interview ever!


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12686553*
> I had a job interview today when I got to talk about SC2 for like 10 minutes lol.
> The best job interview ever!










was it at Blizzard?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12686553*
> I had a job interview today when I got to talk about SC2 for like 10 minutes lol.
> The best job interview ever!


nice


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12686568*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> was it at Blizzard?


Haha, I wish. It was for a software engineering position, but not games related. I mentioned e-sports under interests section on my CV and the interviewing manager asked about it. Then he said: "I knew it's going to be about starcraft."









He said he doesn't play himself, but some people at the company do. He knew about Korea and GSL and stuff, and the interview got quite relaxed.


----------



## AblueXKRS

So trying to watch at least some of the matches on GomTv.net... can anyone explain why I can only watch one match every two or three days?

I mean I watch one, and then for three days clicking play on ANY of their videos and nothing happens. At all. Except the play symbol changes to a pause symbol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12687027*
> So trying to watch at least some of the matches on GomTv.net... can anyone explain why I can only watch one match every two or three days?
> 
> I mean I watch one, and then for three days clicking play on ANY of their videos and nothing happens. At all. Except the play symbol changes to a pause symbol.


You're only allowed to watch the first match of each matchup. If you want to watch the rest, you'll need to buy a pass for the $15 or so


----------



## Allenssmart

post deleted


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12687145*
> You're only allowed to watch the first match of each matchup. If you want to watch the rest, you'll need to buy a pass for the $15 or so


I understand that, but there's nothing that says I can only watch two matches a week...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12687524*
> I understand that, but there's nothing that says I can only watch two matches a week...


oh, hmm, tried different browser? Alternatively, you can stay up like some of these guys and watch it live for free


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12687648*
> oh, hmm, tried different browser? Alternatively, you can stay up like some of these guys and watch it live for free


Firefox doesn't seem to have a problem with it... We'll see, won't we?

What channel is it on?


----------



## DoomDash

Looked at the new patch notes, EMP nerf is understandable I guess. I liked the FG missile... I think FG is going to be too good vs T now.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12687248*
> post deleted


Rofl I just watched that replay you posted, that was funny (and kinda mean strat to do).


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12689050*
> Rofl I just watched that replay you posted, that was funny (and kinda mean strat to do).


here's the correct one lol

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148934-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Looked at the new patch notes, EMP nerf is understandable I guess. I liked the FG missile... I think FG is going to be too good vs T now.


How? Tanks will still one-shot infestors. Terran infantry will still shred it. Infestor will still be an extremely expensive and fragile unit that gets insta-fried if it's even half an inch out of position.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12690087*
> How? Tanks will still one-shot infestors. Terran infantry will still shred it. Infestor will still be an extremely expensive and fragile unit that gets insta-fried if it's even half an inch out of position.


You crack me up.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


How? Tanks will still one-shot infestors. Terran infantry will still shred it. Infestor will still be an extremely expensive and fragile unit that gets insta-fried if it's even half an inch out of position.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You crack me up.










I actually agree with him. I can't say I use infestors much, but, they are pretty fragile for their cost. I guess they are like ghosts although EMP+snipe are pretty good abilities, not to say that IT and FG aren't


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I actually agree with him. I can't say I use infestors much, but, they are pretty fragile for their cost. I guess they are like ghosts although EMP+snipe are pretty good abilities, not to say that IT and FG aren't










Two silver league Zergs, one of which doesn't use infestors much agreeing about them. I am in shock!

Fragile for their cost? Try using a Templar.

Infestors are great units.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You crack me up.










Says the guy who once told us that hatch before pool was risk-free. That's one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard about this game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Says the guy who once told us that hatch before pool was risk-free. That's one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard about this game.


I never said it was risk free, I said it's pretty safe... which it is if you aren't ******ed ( vs T ).

Well you'll never be out of Silver with all that QQ you do.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Two silver league Zergs, one of which doesn't use infestors much agreeing about them. I am in shock!

Fragile for their cost? Try using a Templar.

Infestors are great units.


lol, we are still entitled to our opinions







Either way, I'll take storm over FG anyday









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Says the guy who once told us that hatch before pool was risk-free. That's one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard about this game.


Nothing is risk-free except if the map is large enough so that 2 rax or 2 gate, etc.... don't work as well


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12690583*
> lol, we are still entitled to our opinions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, I'll take storm over FG anyday


I have no problem with opinions... but Lucas only posts OMG QQ world life is so imba. Even goes as far as making up Zerg getting pushed through tournaments as a conspiracy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I have no problem with opinions... but Lucas only posts OMG QQ world life is so imba. Even goes as far as making up Zerg getting pushed through tournaments as a conspiracy.


I see, well, he does QQ but some of it is valid, others not so much


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I see, well, he does QQ but some of it is valid, others not so much










Theory QQ ftl. He isn't playing at a level where his QQ matters even remotely.


----------



## BigFan

^^But neither is anyone on here









Edit: http://www.overclock.net/technology-...thquake-5.html

So sad


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^But neither is anyone on here










Kind of.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Kind of.


Was mostly referring to the pros who play for large amounts of cash, but, I do agree that playing at high level masters means that some of the flaws are more obvious than the lower leagues.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I've learned that most of my match up problems are my own fault. I used to ***** about Z, but now I just say its a weak match up because I don't play it as good as I could.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well I've learned that most of my match up problems are my own fault. I used to ***** about Z, but now I just say its a weak match up because I don't play it as good as I could.


This is too true.


----------



## DoomDash

Videos for all!

  
 You Tube  



 

First two are multiple games, so click to watch more.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


here's the correct one lol

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...oss-gutterhulk


anyone?


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12684547*
> What race do you play?


I play Random.

Real men go random

When I play zerg I'm very macro heavy and I tend to go roach 2 base play right off the back.

When I go Terran I like to go Mec

When I go Toss I like to go 4 Gate

I'm not very good, I'm still ranked sliver but I don't like latter it's to much pressure when you play. I like to play for fun.


----------



## slickwilly

O.K. I know this is not exactly a strategy question but a coworker wants to be able to max SC2 and Diablo III (when it's released) at 1920 X 1080

what kind of proc. would be best and how much ram is needed?
I know almost any DX10 card with a gig of ram will suffice for a video card
My sig rig plays SC2 lag free even with a screen full of Zerg/Terrains

He is on a lap top now playing at low settings.

Any one playing this game in 3D?


----------



## DoomDash

Mine runs all full settings with all the works in that res... but I have a 580.. probably over kill for graphics.

I've played it in 3D.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12692650*
> anyone?


I think you lost because you overmicroed. If you just 1a'd into his army it would be much closer. Also you could have placed your HTs at the high ground rather then suicide them the way you did and you should always aim to keep your zealots at the fron and spread your units, especially against ghosts. Your macro wasn't very good either (still better then terrans though).

Besides that I believe that colossi are better first choice in PvT than HTs, because you're going to need robo anyway, they are easier to use and it takes more for a terran to tech to vikings than to get ghosts.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12697173*
> I think you lost because you overmicroed. If you just 1a'd into his army it would be much closer. Also you could have placed your HTs at the high ground rather then suicide them the way you did and you should always aim to keep your zealots at the fron and spread your units, especially against ghosts. Your macro wasn't very good either (still better then terrans though).
> 
> Besides that I believe that colossi are better first choice in PvT than HTs, because you're going to need robo anyway, they are easier to use and it takes more for a terran to tech to vikings than to get ghosts.


thx for watching the replay dude i really appreciate it but i'm the terran...


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, you played well then. Just work on your macro.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Where do y'all download the GSL maps?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12697355*
> thx for watching the replay dude i really appreciate it but i'm the terran...


lol see, you should show replays of you losing, that's what people expect








Yeah just work on macro. IIRC there was a time after the expansion where you didn't build any new barracks/factories/whatever and your money went to 1k. It's tricky.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12697659*
> Where do y'all download the GSL maps?


I just create a custom game and search GSL.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

And some people wonder why we think marines and hellions are too cheap.


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12699394*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some people wonder why we think marines and hellions are too cheap.


How has iEchoic's build for TvT worked out so far? Anyone know?

It was the first build that I've seen where you just suicide swarms of hellions because you have so much money.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12699394*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some people wonder why we think marines and hellions are too cheap.












[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMdLBPEwuJk&[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

....

weird pvp there.

I'm lol'ing at MC's bruce lee movie imitation atm.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
Totally epic.


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbAT1wzS8U&

Totally epic.


Lol...best thing ever.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

TOTally.

Anypro great game vs july.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbAT1wzS8U&

Totally epic.












omg that is so epic I have to carry it around with me.

Download -> phone.

Also, Thanks to Blizzard for patching a new bug into the game that makes me crash out of two of my 1v1 placements and thus dropping me to being ranked 100th... in bronze...


----------



## poroboszcz

I highly recommend this PvP opening for people bored with 4 gating:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200692

I think that getting robo after the second gate is rather risky against some more all-in builds, like 1 gas 4 gate or fast blink stalkers, so you may want to get 3rd gate faster. It also transitions well into blink play with skipping robo and/or DTs against stargate builds.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Thanks I'll take a look. I was winning all PvP's with 2 gate robo fe. Now I've switched to 4 gate and canon rushing today. LOL only lost once in PvP. Canon rush is sooo cheap. Thank you oGsMC.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

hehe, finally broke top ten in diamond 3032


----------



## BigFan

Since I haven't posted any replays in a long time, I thought I'll post these two replays that I recently played. Keep in mind I haven't played in pretty much forever, so, I still have some glaring mistakes XD
ZvsT: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149497-1v1-terran-zerg-backwater-gulch
PvsT: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149498-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis

Both are pretty interesting because of the bizzare strats that my opponents went for. I would say the first is more interesting and actually had me taking a third base somewhat early-ish as well as getting 2/2 upgrades(a first for me







) but I think I had better micro in the second one even though it wasn't too difficult to take that game









Edit: Just played this game right now, ZvsP on ST. Let's just say there are some interesting surprises in this one. I don't think the other two games compare XD
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149586-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah, mass SCV and landed vikings vs speedlings, that will work. Why is that terran flying away? Did he forget you had mutas?

I love that second game. Engy bay into CC into double barracks into pf build. Yeah that works for terran.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12701450*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbAT1wzS8U&
> 
> Totally epic.


Indeed totally epic








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12701946*
> Also, Thanks to Blizzard for patching a new bug into the game that makes me crash out of two of my 1v1 placements and thus dropping me to being ranked 100th... in bronze...


You can still work yourself out of bronze easy. It's somewhat cheesy down there







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12713138*
> Yeah, mass SCV and landed vikings vs speedlings, that will work. Why is that terran flying away? Did he forget you had mutas?
> 
> I love that second game. Engy bay into CC into double barracks into pf build. Yeah that works for terran.


mass SCVs? I do agree, but, tbh the vikings caught me offguard. I saw the mass marines, reapers, banshees, etc.... but only saw the viking once I decided to do some harass. By then, he had something like 14 of them







He should've also taken his exp instead of trying to take that bottom one with no defense at all. Maybe added in a thor or two for the mutas? Had he sniped all my OLs which weren't exactly far from each other, he might've done some major damage because I would've had to make them all again and it's would've cost a fortune not that I didn't have enough $ XD
That second game was bizzare as well, more so than the first. He said that he was fooling around, I'm inclined to believe him. Had he gotten that PF as soon as the CC finished and then went for marauders on those 2 rax, he might've been able to hold of my attack, not to mention he forget to close that depot XD

BTW, what did you think of the third one?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12713973*
> Why do most ZvZs result in me being 6-pooled?
> 
> On another note, I'm trying to get(read:forcing) my Dad into SC2. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what he could watch/read to give him a basic knowledge of how the game works?


Because most hate that matchup, so, they want to end it quickly. I would do the same if I knew that 6 pooling is guaranteed to work and I'll learn something from it







Find some exciting GSL game such as the Clide vs Leenock one from GSL 2 I believe then make him watch it







Just make sure to skip the first 10-15min or so because umm, they had a disconnect from the game so they started over again XD


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12710029*
> Since I haven't posted any replays in a long time, I thought I'll post these two replays that I recently played. Keep in mind I haven't played in pretty much forever, so, I still have some glaring mistakes XD
> ZvsT: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149497-1v1-terran-zerg-backwater-gulch
> PvsT: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149498-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
> 
> Both are pretty interesting because of the bizzare strats that my opponents went for. I would say the first is more interesting and actually had me taking a third base somewhat early-ish as well as getting 2/2 upgrades(a first for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but I think I had better micro in the second one even though it wasn't too difficult to take that game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Just played this game right now, ZvsP on ST. Let's just say there are some interesting surprises in this one. I don't think the other two games compare XD
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149586-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk


I think we're of similar skill sets, we should custom more often.


----------



## tryceo

Anyone gold/plat wanna play 2v2?? or 3v3? I'm bored of 1v1 everyone.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I think we're of similar skill sets, we should custom more often.


I haven't seen any of your games but I would think we are pretty close due to our ranks, so, we should custom more often







I don't have a specific time I'm on though. I try to be on whenever my net seems to be working to avoid lag and whenever I feel like playing, would explain why I played 5-6 games last night XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tryceo*


Anyone gold/plat wanna play 2v2?? or 3v3? I'm bored of 1v1 everyone.


Hit the overclock.net channel. Ask if anyone is interested there, I'm sure someone would want a 2vs2/3vs3


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


You can still work yourself out of bronze easy. It's somewhat cheesy down there










It's sad, but cheese is actually something I have a really hard time with. Against Protoss who cannon rush (pretty much all bronze Toss do this) my mistake is clear enough; not scouting my base and the surrounding area to spot proxy pylons, but against zerg, I cannot beat a 6pool. I've never managed it.

What do?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12723668*
> What do?


Use your workers to attack it or if your quick enough you can simply just wall off your base, if you are terran anyway.

If you are protoss you could just build a cannon or two near your workers or front gate and then they can't touch you.

I don't play zerg but I guess a six pool would beat a six pool if you out micro them.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just rewatched this epic PvZ.

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/61742

LOL I've been canon rushing and 1 gas 4 gating the last few days just for the luls. So many angry tells after games esp when I 4 gate. Cheese seem to be hard to stop in high div as well. On slag, xel naga, temp, and some other maps canon rushing is so easy to do. Six pools are easy to stop though. Firstly if you're terran you should be scouting quicker, then walling off accordingly if you see a six pool coming. Secondly two marines and a lot of scv vs zlings means you will always win if micro'd correctly. Thirdly if you're vs toss then you should be blocking off your ram with scv's so their probe don't come up the ramp. When that happens their canons cannot hit the high ground. This way you can just use marines to slowly pick their buildings off.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12706668*
> I highly recommend this PvP opening for people bored with 4 gating:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200692
> 
> I think that getting robo after the second gate is rather risky against some more all-in builds, like 1 gas 4 gate or fast blink stalkers, so you may want to get 3rd gate faster. It also transitions well into blink play with skipping robo and/or DTs against stargate builds.


To revisit this, I think 2 gate robo fe if done correctly vs an all in 4 gate 1 gas means the 2 gate player will always be ahead. I've won so many of those matches while going 2 gate robo. There was a period where I just wouldn't loose vs 4 gate or even 2 gate robo fe mirrors. The issue with most is they don't know how to defend vs a 4 gate all in. Even blink stalkers have a hard time. However in PvP there are new combinations that makes 2 gate robo builds hard to go into.

If you go 2 gate robo and see they're 4 gate all in or 3 or 4 gate blink you will have sentries to block ramp off, warp prisms to counter while they're attacking, and immortals to deal with mass stalkers. If you pick off pylon and probe with your first chrono'd stalker it halts a 4 gate so quickly swinging the advantage in your way. If you know they're going into blink then block the bottom of the ramp so they can't see you, can't attack you and blink up.

However the problem is with the viability of two base star robo builds that just crushes two base two robo builds. You go attack, they go LOL go fly into your base and kill all your probes, then still have enough time to come back and target fire your col while their col do just enough. But vs 4 gate builds that star/robo builds just doesn't work.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

oh snap. first video is out:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_dRm_8P0_A[/ame]


----------



## advntk

epic match ^


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoxeiW8yDzI[/ame]


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12724534*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Just rewatched this epic PvZ.
> 
> http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/61742
> 
> LOL I've been canon rushing and 1 gas 4 gating the last few days just for the luls. So many angry tells after games esp when I 4 gate. Cheese seem to be hard to stop in high div as well. On slag, xel naga, temp, and some other maps canon rushing is so easy to do. Six pools are easy to stop though. Firstly if you're terran you should be scouting quicker, then walling off accordingly if you see a six pool coming. Secondly two marines and a lot of scv vs zlings means you will always win if micro'd correctly. Thirdly if you're vs toss then you should be blocking off your ram with scv's so their probe don't come up the ramp. When that happens their canons cannot hit the high ground. This way you can just use marines to slowly pick their buildings off.
> 
> To revisit this, I think 2 gate robo fe if done correctly vs an all in 4 gate 1 gas means the 2 gate player will always be ahead. I've won so many of those matches while going 2 gate robo. There was a period where I just wouldn't loose vs 4 gate or even 2 gate robo fe mirrors. The issue with most is they don't know how to defend vs a 4 gate all in. Even blink stalkers have a hard time. However in PvP there are new combinations that makes 2 gate robo builds hard to go into.
> 
> If you go 2 gate robo and see they're 4 gate all in or 3 or 4 gate blink you will have sentries to block ramp off, warp prisms to counter while they're attacking, and immortals to deal with mass stalkers. If you pick off pylon and probe with your first chrono'd stalker it halts a 4 gate so quickly swinging the advantage in your way. If you know they're going into blink then block the bottom of the ramp so they can't see you, can't attack you and blink up.
> 
> However the problem is with the viability of two base star robo builds that just crushes two base two robo builds. You go attack, they go LOL go fly into your base and kill all your probes, then still have enough time to come back and target fire your col while their col do just enough. But vs 4 gate builds that star/robo builds just doesn't work.


Lol, I actually pasted a wrong link. What I wanted to link was this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192658


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yup, that's what I've been using to win all my pvp matches in diamond until the phoenix col build came after gsl and just ripped me to shreds. Now it's all 4 gate all ins and canon rushes. A lot of times I don't even need to cancel the probe at 25/26 to get the extra unit out to protect myself b/c how effective the first two/three stalkers are.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12731628*
> Yup, that's what I've been using to win all my pvp matches in diamond until the phoenix col build came after gsl and just ripped me to shreds. Now it's *all 4 gate all ins and canon rushes*. A lot of times I don't even need to cancel the probe at 25/26 to get the extra unit out to protect myself b/c how effective the first two/three stalkers are.


You should really consider doing other builds in PvsP. I know that a 4 gate is a good strat but meh, I think one should learn about all the possible builds and experiment with them







I know you tried others in the past before the phoenix col build but maybe there is something you missed?


----------



## Ruckol1

Okay I really need someone to take a look @ this replay please. I am not sure at all what I did wrong.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150135-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12734125*
> You should really consider doing other builds in PvsP. I know that a 4 gate is a good strat but meh, I think one should learn about all the possible builds and experiment with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you tried others in the past before the phoenix col build but maybe there is something you missed?


Sadly, only in Code S will you see PvP sometimes not doing 4wg builds. Even in Masters 4wg is really powerful. It's so easy to win against someone who tries to tech. One missed FF and it's gg.

Btw LiquidTyler isn't that good. I've watched his stream...

My bro xNJakeBake broke the top 200. Woot!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what other builds are there?

I've done offensive 520 4 gate all in
canon rush at 13
defensive 4 gate into blink, 3 gate offensive blink
2 gate robo expand or cancel fe into 3 gate robo attack or 3 gate robo col
2 gate robo fe star, 2 gate star fe, 2 gate star fe cancel into 3 gate star
the macro ones are the 2 gate robo fe into col into dt/archon, or col into phoe into dt

Only thing i haven't done is defensive gateway into prism dt, which only works in gold and lower.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12734589*
> what other builds are there?
> 
> I've done offensive 520 4 gate all in
> canon rush at 13
> defensive 4 gate into blink, 3 gate offensive blink
> 2 gate robo expand or cancel fe into 3 gate robo attack or 3 gate robo col
> 2 gate robo fe star, 2 gate star fe, 2 gate star fe cancel into 3 gate star
> the macro ones are the 2 gate robo fe into col into dt/archon, or col into phoe into dt
> 
> Only thing i haven't done is defensive gateway into prism dt, which only works in gold and lower.


Defensive 4wg into Robo is the most common and successful imo. I also have a cannon build that isn't quite standard to say the least


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Can one base support that much and can blink stalkers builds counter it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12734515*
> Okay I really need someone to take a look @ this replay please. I am not sure at all what I did wrong.
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150135-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk


You're the zerg in that replay right?

have to learn how to defend against a forge fe type 6gate +1weap timing push. You can either bum rush him with lings or roaches of 1.5 bases, or tech to hydras/mutas to defend it, or tech to nydas and bum rush main. Or, hide a drone, build a hatch in his main base.


----------



## Allenssmart

any body mid diamond and above want to be my practice partner add me :

zombiehunter

711

thanks guys!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12734515*
> Okay I really need someone to take a look @ this replay please. I am not sure at all what I did wrong.
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150135-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk


Will take a look tommorrow, going to bed soon








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12734578*
> Sadly, only in Code S will you see PvP sometimes not doing 4wg builds. Even in Masters 4wg is really powerful. It's so easy to win against someone who tries to tech. One missed FF and it's gg.
> 
> Btw LiquidTyler isn't that good. I've watched his stream...
> 
> My bro xNJakeBake broke the top 200. Woot!


That's very sad actually. I like variety and dislike how many go for a 4 gate :/ Congrats to your bro








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12734589*
> what other builds are there?
> 
> I've done offensive 520 4 gate all in
> canon rush at 13
> defensive 4 gate into blink, 3 gate offensive blink
> 2 gate robo expand or cancel fe into 3 gate robo attack or 3 gate robo col
> 2 gate robo fe star, 2 gate star fe, 2 gate star fe cancel into 3 gate star
> the macro ones are the 2 gate robo fe into col into dt/archon, or col into phoe into dt
> 
> Only thing i haven't done is defensive gateway into prism dt, which only works in gold and lower.


Not sure, was mostly adding in the idea that you should rotate your build so that your games are more unique, but, again if 4 gate build is going well in every PvsP you play, I guess there is no reason to make life harder XD


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12734578*
> Sadly, only in Code S will you see PvP sometimes not doing 4wg builds. Even in Masters 4wg is really powerful. It's so easy to win against someone who tries to tech. One missed FF and it's gg.
> 
> Btw LiquidTyler isn't that good. I've watched his stream...


Yea I've watched him yesterday losing to cannon rush and like 4 4gates in a row, but tbh it seemed like he didn't really care too much about winning and threw some games away.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12734867*
> Can one base support that much and can blink stalkers builds counter it?
> 
> You're the zerg in that replay right?
> 
> have to learn how to defend against a forge fe type 6gate +1weap timing push. You can either bum rush him with lings or roaches of 1.5 bases, or tech to hydras/mutas to defend it, or tech to nydas and bum rush main. Or, hide a drone, build a hatch in his main base.


6 gate has been designed to kill muta play. You need hydras and/or burrow roach.


----------



## Idra

Is anyone here going to the Cybercraft tournament?

Also, I will help anyone here up to mid-level Diamond (though at that level, you might just become a practicing partner). I can play all three races (though Zerg has been most appealing to me as of lately).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12735555*
> Yea I've watched him yesterday losing to cannon rush and like 4 4gates in a row, but tbh it seemed like he didn't really care too much about winning and threw some games away.
> 
> 6 gate has been designed to kill muta play. You need hydras and/or burrow roach.


Though I agree as I kill muta ling zergs with that combo easy, I'm still a member of the day9 school of thought that it's not necessarily unit x countering unit y, but how the macro and game is controlled. If zerg does go to mutas with 3 bases vs a 6 gate +1 timing push and pick off the pylons/sentries, then the ball is entirely in zerg's court. Speedlings can pick off stalkers. There's still a lot to do for the zerg then as toss can turtle until blink and storm.


----------



## AblueXKRS

God fudge it. I keep getting rolled by MM balls like 5 minutes in.

Should I just gate until I have an expansion?


----------



## MacNcheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12736028*
> Is anyone here going to the Cybercraft tournament?
> 
> Also, I will help anyone here up to mid-level Diamond (though at that level, you might just become a practicing partner). I can play all three races (though Zerg has been most appealing to me as of lately).


I could definately use the tips to work on my 1v1's. Ive been playing a lot of 2v2 and 3v3 but I had to leave town for a while and slowly getting back into it... damn these new builds. Shoot me a pm if your up for it! I guess im a mid range diamond... maybe low now


----------



## MacNcheese

O... sorry for double post but I think this will be worth it...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gho30f6Yut0&feature=feedrec_grec_index[/ame]

(hoping no one else posted this already)


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12737435*
> God fudge it. I keep getting rolled by MM balls like 5 minutes in.
> 
> Should I just gate until I have an expansion?


What?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12737657*
> Is it just me, or does that guy look constipated?


We asians always have that look. It's the eyes.

GSL up and down tonight/morning.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

slayers boxer vs zenio, very good match. boxer just refuses to gg. great long match.

awesome second game in boxer vs zenio. game three coming up.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacNcheese;12737592*
> O... sorry for double post but I think this will be worth it...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gho30f6Yut0&feature=feedrec_grec_index
> 
> (hoping no one else posted this already)


that was a great osl

well probably not so great for a kt fan


----------



## yellowtoblerone

123 vs 88!!! slayers boxer is crazy!!! still in it..

wow.. one of the most intense tvz ever. game 3 slayers.boxer vs ogszenio.


----------



## roberT_

Looking forward to a fun week of SC2 Team games thanks to day9's funday monday for this week.

Team monobattles are awsome!


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


Looking forward to a fun week of SC2 Team games thanks to day9's funday monday for this week.

Team monobattles are awsome!


That was pretty funny.

I especially liked the big plan for an attack on the red T, only to have the attacking player P forget to attack move and lose more than half of his army


----------



## Nevaziah

what? what is the funday monday for this week? I havent seen the stream yet.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


what? what is the funday monday for this week? I havent seen the stream yet.


he is doing team monobattles again.

3v3 or 4v4: declare one unit at the start and you can only make that one unit the entire game (exception for supply, workers, static defense, and detection)


----------



## vdek




----------



## yellowtoblerone

I've seen TL site that has information on how to calc it. I'm not sure it's the auto calculate one you're talking about.


----------



## rhed5

Vdek sighting @ Destiny's stream yesterday.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Vdek sighting @ Destiny's stream yesterday.


Haha, I Was just playing some games with SLoG, then Sheth came in, then the rest of FXO came in, then Destiny joined


----------



## DoomDash

Missed a bill.. no internet till Friday or Saturday. What did I miss?


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Missed a bill.. no internet till Friday or Saturday. What did I miss?


They shut your internet off that quickly


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12753462*
> Haha, I Was just playing some games with SLoG, then Sheth came in, then the rest of FXO came in, then Destiny joined


Nice. Hadn't tuned in to destiny forever, turned it on and saw you and was surprised lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12753600*
> Missed a bill.. no internet till Friday or Saturday. What did I miss?


That sucks. Is that why you've been MIA? I'm a SoTIS master now. Screw melee games.


----------



## DoomDash

SoTIS?

Melee games?

Yes it's why I've been MIA.


----------



## yks

gsl


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



You missed MVP and Boxer getting knocked down into Code A, son.



And SOTIS is the SC version of DOTA

and yeah, haha, I saw you on Destiny's stream too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12753684*
> That sucks. Is that why you've been MIA? I'm a *SoTIS master now. Screw melee games*.


rofl, so, does that mean you don't plan on laddering anymore?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12753722*
> SoTIS?
> 
> Melee games?
> 
> Yes it's why I've been MIA.


SoTIS is basically dota for SCII. Was wondering where you were for the last couple of days


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12753462*
> Haha, I Was just playing some games with SLoG, then Sheth came in, then the rest of FXO came in, then Destiny joined


Who's slog, slesh, FXO?


----------



## cory1234

Finally broke 3500 after several losing streaks







.

Anyone want to practice?


----------



## DoomDash

DOTA games ftl. I don't see the appeal.

Anyway, Cory I would but no internet till Friday / Saturday.


----------



## teajayyy

anyone want to train a bronze player?

teajayyy.459

brotoss


----------



## Allenssmart

*Jinro's marine micro*


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hmmm... I see...

Too bad slayers b and other great players are out of S. Was such a tight series of matches.


----------



## Hokin

Anyone wanna get a quick 1v1? Gold Rank 4.
Chopsticks Char code 326


----------



## PixelFreakz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


*Jinro's marine micro*











***???!!!?!?!?!?!


----------



## AblueXKRS

BOXER KNOCKED OUT OF S!?

The end is nigh.

How on earth did Zenio manage that?

When is JulyZerg going up against Nada?

Also, If I buy a season pass during the season, do I get to go back and watch every single match for this season that has already aired, including the ones that aired before I paid, and do I get to watch this season's games for free while the next season is running?

How does a Gomtv season pass work?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Basically the first and third match in Boxer vs Zenio Boxer was too eager and over committed. On the 1st GSL match map he over commited the thors and lost a whole bunch, allowed Zenio to take the whole map after and got out macro'd. Third game on xel naga he sieged his tanks too late at the 2nd south xel naga watch tower and lost 4-5 tanks and marines/mvac. TSN turning point, and he played catch up from there. He killed off around 14 hatches in that game but was just too far behind after loosing the tanks and marines.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Well, at least he shouldn't have any trouble getting back into S. He's such a god. I watched the first match against Zenio and I thought to myself, "Oh, he's lost it this time, now he really is dead..."

... about a dozen times. He even managed to hold Zenio off for quite a while while Zenio had about 3/4 of the map. That's insane.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Boxer can be pretty bad sometimes. I've seen gamecasts where the commentators just sit there saying "what the hell is he thinking?"


----------



## mfb412

Boxer is quite mixed in his play, his inconsistency is the bane of his skills


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12763958*
> Also, If I buy a season pass during the season, do I get to go back and watch every single match for this season that has already aired, including the ones that aired before I paid, and do I get to watch this season's games for free while the next season is running?
> 
> How does a Gomtv season pass work?


*cough* spoiler tags *cough*


----------



## poroboszcz

I wonder if you guys use camera hotkeys. I've never had, but now I'm trying to force myself to use them, as they allow for doing stuff really fast.

For example I'll hotkey all my mineral lines to f2, f3 and f4 and my current warp in location to f5. When I need to warp in units during a battle I'll go f5, w, s, click, 1,1 - which takes just a second. Similarly if I need to build something I'll go f2 select probe, build, 1,1 - back to my army. I'm not quite used to it yet, but it seems much more efficient then using the minimap, as you don't have to move your cursor off the center of the screen. You can also react faster to stuff like drops etc once you get used to it.


----------



## Nevaziah

I would love to use them but they dont seem to be working for me... Ctrl+F2, F3, F4 etc doesnt work...


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12766031*
> I wonder if you guys use camera hotkeys. I've never had, but now I'm trying to force myself to use them, as they allow for doing stuff really fast.
> 
> For example I'll hotkey all my mineral lines to f2, f3 and f4 and my current warp in location to f5. When I need to warp in units during a battle I'll go f5, w, s, click, 1,1 - which takes just a second. Similarly if I need to build something I'll go f2 select probe, build, 1,1 - back to my army. I'm not quite used to it yet, but it seems much more efficient then using the minimap, as you don't have to move your cursor off the center of the screen. You can also react faster to stuff like drops etc once you get used to it.


I use F1-F2 for Nexus locations whenever I build something faraway. Select probe, build something @ bottom of base, F1, shift+click back on mineral. I don't use it to build probes like you do however, 5ee is much faster to me.

I don't use any for the warpgate pylon locations also. I'm trying to use F3 and F4 for Xel'Naga Vision but its pretty hard to remember.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;12767493*
> I would love to use them but they dont seem to be working for me... Ctrl+F2, F3, F4 etc doesnt work...


They are at f5 - f9 by default so you need to rebind them in hotkey options.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12767581*
> I use F1-F2 for Nexus locations whenever I build something faraway. Select probe, build something @ bottom of base, F1, shift+click back on mineral. I don't use it to build probes like you do however, 5ee is much faster to me.
> 
> I don't use any for the warpgate pylon locations also. I'm trying to use F3 and F4 for Xel'Naga Vision but its pretty hard to remember.


I don't use them to build probe as there's no reason to change camera location for it, but if I need to select a probe and build something, and after early game I won't have any hotkeyed, I can quickly do it by switching camera to my mineral line. I use 4 for all my nexi and ¬ (backspace by default) to switch between them. So if I want to chronoboost all my nexi I'll go 4, hold c, ¬ click ¬ click ¬ click, similar stuff with inject larva.


----------



## Mwarren

Now streaming.
http://www.justin.tv/sovern


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ I'm watching


----------



## QuadDamage

Nothing bro what gives?!


----------



## Mwarren

Try now


----------



## yks

not on.


----------



## Hawk777th

No dice.


----------



## QuadDamage

It says offline bro, how are we going to bro out? That was me in chat asking to cyber btw


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I tried it a few times but it doesn't work.

As for f5-f9, I use it as much as possible; As in, I use F5 every 10 games when I remember to use it. It's a very good function.


----------



## DoomDash

71 bonus pool... 1-2 more days to go







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

what are you talking about?


----------



## ablearcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12773653*
> what are you talking about?


he's probably about to drain his bonus pool from playing too much


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12773653*
> what are you talking about?


Answer:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12753722*
> Yes it's why I've been MIA.


He hasn't been able to play some SCII due to his net being down, so, his pool is going up


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Rofl I didn't get it since my pool was over 1.5k.


----------



## DoomDash

3400 with 39 bonus pool left. Might have to cheer my gf up tonight she didn't get a promotion she interviewed for.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


3400 with 39 bonus pool left. Might have to cheer my gf up tonight she didn't get a promotion she interviewed for.


damn mate, you make it sound like such a chore...








Do something out of the blue, something unlike you


----------



## DoomDash

What's a chore?


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## slickwilly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


A dirty thing that costs money and gives you AIDS.

And then there's prostitutes...



Um, the C isn't silent


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Would SC2 still work if I moved it from my old hdd to my new ssd do you think?

Don't want to download it all over again really.


----------



## DoomDash

I go away for one week, jediwin is talking about custom games, and yks is no longer trying to get good. :'(.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Would SC2 still work if I moved it from my old hdd to my new ssd do you think?

Don't want to download it all over again really.


hmm, you could try moving the files then change the registry files if possible so that they point to the new location, but, I dunno if it'll work









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nevaziah*


damn mate, you make it sound like such a chore...








Do something out of the blue, something unlike you










lol, he does make it sound like that









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I go away for one week, jediwin is talking about custom games, and yks is no longer trying to get good. :'(.


jedi broke his mouse, so, he decided to switch to customs instead of getting pwned, rofl XD 
/joke
Last I checked, yks was playing some games maybe 2 days ago, but, the whole sotis thing is news to me as well


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2228179462#1

Quote:



It's an exciting time in StarCraft II history. The first ever season is drawing to a close, and Season 2 is about to begin. We have some important information on how the end of season process will happen, and the times and dates for each step.

During maintenance next Tuesday morning, March 22, the ladders will be locked. The lock will mean that no further league promotions or demotions can occur, and bonus pools will stop growing. So now's the time to push for that promotion! Once locked to a league and division players can continue to play out their bonus pools and compete for standing within their division until the actual end of the season.

During morning maintenance the following Tuesday, March 29, Season 1 will end and Season 2 will begin. Season milestone rewards will be distributed (more info about these in an upcoming blog), and bonus pools will start over. Internal skill ratings used for matchmaking and league placement will carry over from the previous season, so players who have played their placement matches in the previous season will only need to play one new placement match.

A couple weeks later we'll be ready to launch the Grandmaster league the morning of April 12. For more information on this premiere league check out our recent blog at-
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2452060#blog


----------



## BigFan

^^Interesting, at least no depromotion once the lock is in place, so, I could careless if I started losing a lot at that point


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12783637*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2228179462#1


Nice! I just got my SSD working all nice and settings changed up, it's actually installing SC2 on it as we speak! Not much room left after that though


----------



## Allenssmart

why did the colossus trip?
.............................................
.............................................
.............................................
.............................................
.............................................
.............................................

CAUSE IT'S IMBALANCED. NOW NERF IT BLIZZARD.


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12784158*
> CAUSE IT'S IMBALANCED.


Get air units, win?


----------



## NorCa

Any predictions for todays Finals? My vote goes for July; I've said it before, a zerg cant lose if he plays well


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12783051*
> I go away for one week, jediwin is talking about custom games, and yks is no longer trying to get good. :'(.


I'm still trying to get good! Don't worry, you're back now and you'll talk us back into shape.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12785590*


LOL what?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

too bad this link don't work for vlc anymore:

http://mystarcraft2clan.com/blog/permanent-gomtv-live-vlc-link


----------



## ThumperSD

Was that a 4 gate? I didnt notice


----------



## yks

Ya, a 4gate. but he faked an expo and cancelled @ 99.99%


----------



## ThumperSD

Nexus LOL... the one day i decided to tune in to watch GSL happened to be the finals

yks - has there been any major changes with protoss in the last 2 months besides getting rid of the amulet?


----------



## DoomDash

I don't even get how he has so many units at that time. This sentry heavy opening is so wicked good.


----------



## dezshiz

So i heard Force fields were good


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezshiz;12787565*
> So i heard Force fields were good


Yes.


----------



## GYBE

MC abusing so much.

What a boring GSL so far lol


----------



## DoomDash

Hydra drops!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12787556*
> Nexus LOL... the one day i decided to tune in to watch GSL happened to be the finals
> 
> yks - has there been any major changes with protoss in the last 2 months besides getting rid of the amulet?


No more archon toilet and charge lots get a LITTLE better? that's about it.

MC FIGHTING


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I got hydra dropped and nydus'd before on that map. To me it's pretty exciting to see how a pro play my race with mind games.

That casting archon was pretty funny second game when they stalked talking in sync.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## ThumperSD

beast mode MC

why is it that when MC plays in the finals it always ends up boring


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sanzen vs nestea was a much better zvp battle. However MC shows you how to own. I've never thought to use sentries as he did in game 2.


----------



## yks

Man, people will try to emulate MC's forcefields, but they can't FF like him.


----------



## Vuashke

im curious, what is everyones reasoning for watching the gsl as opposed to the osl/msl/team leagues in bw?


----------



## candy wrapper

I got SC2 not so long ago and well...I do fine the first few minutes in the game but then I just dont know what to do next. I don't play online yet, and wont do so until I can at least beat the computer on very hard which is what I am trying to do atm. My issue is that I do devise a decent plan in my head but dont really know how to execute it properly. My bo is fine but when the game starts I completely stop knowing what I am doing. Should I build more workers ? another extractor ? In fact my main issue is that I dont know when to build workers and when to build units, with other races that is not a real problem since you are always making workers no matter what, but with Zerg this is kinda confusing. Any tips ?

Also I like to early expand (14 pool 15 hatch) as Zerg, but are there some other decent build orders that I should try aside from this one and the roach build, no cheese though.


----------



## dezshiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12788786*
> im curious, what is everyones reasoning for watching the gsl as opposed to the osl/msl/team leagues in bw?


Tastosis basically


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezshiz;12789105*
> Tastosis basically


so if artosis and tasteless started commenting on sc:bw, you would watch that instead?


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12789270*
> so if artosis and tasteless started commenting on sc:bw, you would watch that instead?


I know I would, SC:BW is a blast to watch, Tastosis would make it a roller coaster ride of pure awesomeness.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12785590*











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12787561*
> I don't even get how he has so many units at that time. This *sentry heavy opening* is so wicked good.


Where have you been?







Sentry heavy openings are becoming quite popular in Protoss games where they decided to expand early on. It's a pretty strong opening if you can manage to ff well and are constantly wrapping in units when the time permits


----------



## poroboszcz

I actually haven't seen a single GSL match this season.







Is there a place where you can download VODs like with previous seasons?

Anyone excited for TSL? It's looking quite epic. Rooting for White-Ra personally.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## candy wrapper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12789948*
> Have you seen any of Day[9]'s dailies? If not, you should go and watch some of them. There's a bunch of helpful links on the first post in this thread, too. It doesn't matter how solid your build order is, if you can't execute it well and don't have a grasp of the basic mechanics, it'll be very sloppy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Personally, I used to like using a roach rush vs. the AI, as it helps you to get inject larvae and overlord timings right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Roach Build
> 
> 
> 
> Drones
> 9 Overlord
> Drones
> 13 Spawning Pool
> Drones
> 15 Extractor
> Drone/s
> 15/16 Overlord
> 16 Queen - inject immediately once done
> 18 Pair of lings
> Put your roach warren down when the queen is halfway done
> Drone
> 20 Overlord
> Wait for roach warren/inject larvae to finish
> Roaches to 30 or 32
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully that explains the build fairly well. Get drones on gas as soon as the extractor completes. You can get the overlord on 15 or 16, getting it on 15 just gives you an extra 'cushion'. Make sure that you rally the roaches to the front of the enemy base, and attack as soon as they're all there.


Yeah I have watched Day9 a lot. Thx for the BO, I have tried doing something similar in the past. Anyway what do you think are some of the most essential mechanics, I mean game mechanics not ''play'' mechanics.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I actually haven't seen a single GSL match this season.







Is there a place where you can download VODs like with previous seasons?

Anyone excited for TSL? It's looking quite epic. Rooting for White-Ra personally.


Don't believe so, sadly that other place that hosted the files seems to be done :/

Interesting: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2452058
Maybe I should reinstall warcraft II XD

Doom, up for some games, TvsZ hopefully?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I actually haven't seen a single GSL match this season.







Is there a place where you can download VODs like with previous seasons?

Anyone excited for TSL? It's looking quite epic. Rooting for White-Ra personally.


You got a demonoid account? Sometimes they got VOD torrents there.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12790295*
> The most essential mechanics (IMO) are, in no particular order:
> 
> Hotkeys
> Overlord timing
> Larva injection
> 
> While not so important, as your level increases, the following become more and more essential:
> 
> Scouting
> Creep spread
> "Counters" (Depending on whether you agree with Day[9] or not)
> 
> If you do not already, try to use hotkeys for everything. It helps more than you could imagine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I have to disagree, I think scouting is one of the most important things you have to do. Majority of my games that I've lost were due to lack of scouting on my part then expecting to get a force up as my opponent moves across the map. Creep spread is also really important because of map vision, I tried to get my creep as close as possible to their base so that I can see when they move out, etc....
I do agree though that injections and hotkeys are useful though, since, a missed injection means a missed future larvae. As for OL spread, I'm mixed on that, I think its a good idea to do but a smart opponent will snipe those leading to a supply block, so, I prefer to place one near their base, maybe in the central of the map(XC for example), take the two towers and some around my base so that I can react to drops, usually that covers decent portions of the map and gives me the chance to react with the possibility of defending my OLs


----------



## DoomDash

Maybe in a bit.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12788786*
> im curious, what is everyones reasoning for watching the gsl as opposed to the osl/msl/team leagues in bw?


I never played BW, or even wanted to play SC2. I never played beta, but Husky/HD/Blizzard developer games got me into the entertainment portion of the game. I only bought SC2 weeks after release cus friends and I were at futureshop checking other stuff out and I bought it on impulse. So I wouldn't watch other BW games even if tastosis was casting. Just had no interest.

Funny thing though. All the time I saw my friends playing BW, now I play SC2 and they haven't touched the game in months.

As for early game strategy, yes scouting is very important. However it depends on what kind of scouting are you doing. For example, if you play long enough as long as you see few simple points you already know what's going to happen. Or at least, you eliminated what he couldn't possibly do. It comes with trial and error, learning from low to medium to high level games (as timings and styles are diff). Other than day9 there are tons of tutorial videos out there, not to mention team liquid forums.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Omg Tasteless wears earrings. Nothing else to say =)


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah.. he had ear plugs forever ago.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You guys in masters, could you spare some time to coach me over some 1v1? I'll send some tells in game via chat. I'm currently 1st in my diamond division but would like to improve to make the jump to masters.


----------



## DoomDash

Sure. Got skype?


----------



## Skizzorz13

I can help too ill hop on in a bit


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Skizzorz13

Anything mechanical i have the blackwidow. Mechanical vs rubber is like night and day I will never go back


----------



## DoomDash

I have a blackwidow as well.... so does yks and vdek I think.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I have a blackwidow as well.... so does yks and vdek I think.


You mean I'll get better if I get a blackwidow?














/joke

BTW, what do you guys refer to when you talk about Mechanical vs rubber? You mean normal keyboards against ?????


----------



## DoomDash

Yes you will automatically make it into high Diamond.


----------



## Skizzorz13

rubber is a normal keyboard it has rubber domes in it and feels mushy a mechanical feels awesome you have to try it to know what I am talking about though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes you will automatically make it into high Diamond.


rofl, that's still too low, I'm thinking high masters min XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skizzorz13*


rubber is a normal keyboard it has rubber domes in it and feels mushy a mechanical feels awesome you have to try it to know what I am talking about though.


hmm, guessing my keyboard is rubber then considering its age







Thanks for the info


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


TSL being casted by Husky and DJWheat, apparently: Clicky

For some reason, they're on Ustream rather than Justin.tv.


Cause Justin.tv, while good [while i use it], got TOO popular - TOO fast, imo. Their servers couldn't handle the surge. i can't even watch destiny any more @ 1080/720 =[ i have to lower him to 480 for no lag skips.


----------



## Allenssmart

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267488072


----------



## poroboszcz

Wow, over 40k viewers for TSL. The commentary is not the best though, they miss a lot of stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

It's not bad either.


----------



## Liamo Luo

Jinro vs Morrow G2 is my game of the night, unless this is somehow better.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liamo Luo;12804322*
> Jinro vs Morrow G2 is my game of the night, unless this is somehow better.


Yea it was pretty good. Really showed the skill difference. Game 3 was so disappointing though.


----------



## DoomDash

I think Morrow is as good as Jinro.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12800577*
> I feel left out, all the way down in bronze
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Me too. We should game sometime. At least we know we're par.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12805229*
> I think Morrow is as good as Jinro.


Well, he didn't show it in these games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12805521*
> Well, he didn't show it in these games.


He played perfect in 2 of the games. He won.... what more do you want?


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytwf_Ar1Fsg&feature=feedu[/ame]


----------



## Lettuceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12805380*
> Me too. We should game sometime. At least we know we're par.


Me too, I really suck lol.


----------



## Idra

My perspective on balance has changed so much since I started playing every race.

Protoss has it so easy right now. Almost all of the top protoss players have now realized the effectiveness of forcefields and are just going mass sentries. Forcefields, used out of necessity by beginners to survive rushes, are exploited by pros to turn battles that they would have lost into one-sided massacres in their favor.

I think the only reason forcefield hasn't been nerfed yet is because they haven't thought of a replacement or way of doing it yet. Obviously, FF currently plays a strong role of fending off certain rushes for protoss. Removing it would be like removing marines from terran. However, that doesn't change the fact that it needs a nerf.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss is looking crazy hot recently. I have no major complaints though.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12808682*
> My perspective on balance has changed so much since I started playing every race.
> 
> Protoss has it so easy right now. Almost all of the top protoss players have now realized the effectiveness of forcefields and are just going mass sentries. Forcefields, used out of necessity by beginners to survive rushes, are exploited by pros to turn battles that they would have lost into one-sided massacres in their favor.
> 
> I think the only reason forcefield hasn't been nerfed yet is because they haven't thought of a replacement or way of doing it yet. Obviously, FF currently plays a strong role of fending off certain rushes for protoss. Removing it would be like removing marines from terran. However, that doesn't change the fact that it needs a nerf.


I used to be sure colossus was the most imbalanced aspect of PvZ but now I think it's probably forcefield. Zerg is supposed to have a window of opportunity in the mid-game and it just isn't there if the P player has really good forcefield micro. You can't do jack squat on some of these maps that have a lot of chokes. P gets a bunch of sentries, masses up, takes a 3rd, and then zerg is screwed. It quickly becomes max army vs. max army, which is a really bad situation for Z.


----------



## yks

....


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


....


I keep getting killed by Terran. I mainly play Protoss but, maybe my timing is off?


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RealEyes*


I keep getting killed by Terran. I mainly play Protoss but, maybe my timing is off?


...


----------



## candy wrapper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;12805380*
> Me too. We should game sometime. At least we know we're par.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12807866*
> Me too, I really suck lol.


Lol same here, Im not even bronze yet...dont wanna play any placement matches yet.

And speaking of placement matches , what happens if you win all of the qualifying matches or 4/5 of them ? I asume it has also to do with the timings, if you win the first 4 and lose the last one its better than losing the first one and winning the last 4, right ? Also do you fight with other people also doing placement matches or do they pic a player from a legue and match you up against him starting from bottom to top (depending if you win or not ofc).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RealEyes*


I keep getting killed by Terran. I mainly play Protoss but, maybe my timing is off?


I think Terran has it much easier than Z against P personally.


----------



## BigFan

I'm not really sure about FF tbh. I mean considering all maps have chokes makes FF more lethal but I think colossi are still really imbalanced when compared to FF. FF is needed early game but late game, it can be a game changer, that's when it seems to be more OP. I think colossi are a bigger priority though because at least with FF, you need to get them down right otherwise it won't be as effective. However, with colossi, as long as you keep them back, they are pretty effective, etc....


----------



## candy wrapper

Does SC2 support cross region custom games now ? (I know it did not when it came out)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy wrapper*


Does SC2 support cross region custom games now ? (I know it did not when it came out)


No, only SEA can play NA. You can however permanently change to another region, but you lose all your stats / achievements on that server.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I'm not really sure about FF tbh. I mean considering all maps have chokes makes FF more lethal but I think colossi are still really imbalanced when compared to FF. FF is needed early game but late game, it can be a game changer, that's when it seems to be more OP. I think colossi are a bigger priority though because at least with FF, you need to get them down right otherwise it won't be as effective. However, with colossi, as long as you keep them back, they are pretty effective, etc....










Colossus is an obvious problem but FF might actually be worse because it tips the balance in the mid-game, which is the one part of the game where zerg is supposed to be able to fight on an equal footing. It's also the part of the game where zerg has to make something happen to prevent the deathball from being completed. What happens after the deathball appears is all academic because the game is already over at that point.


----------



## yks

OCN used to be cool because it wasn't like the mindless TL SC2Strat section talking about FOTM-imba-rant


----------



## DoomDash

Life is imba.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12816182*
> OCN used to be cool because it wasn't like the mindless TL SC2Strat section talking about FOTM-imba-rant


There has always been some qq'ing, especially after the end of each GSL season. Now is the time for protoss. The lower the league the more people tend to blame balance for their losses.

That's what I get instead of gl hf now:










And that's instead of gg, after he suicided like 20 banelings into my stalker sentry.









Congrats on promotion btw. Right on time before the ladder lock.


----------



## DoomDash

Welcome to a Terrans life.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12816899*
> There has always been some qq'ing, especially after the end of each GSL season. Now is the time for protoss. The lower the league the more people tend to blame balance for their losses.
> 
> Congrats on promotion btw. Right on time before the ladder lock.


Ty, yeah, ladder lock was scary

ROFL @ the things that dude said to you.


----------



## Lettuceman

Guys, I'm the lowest of the low in bronze. Pretty much I suck







I really want to improve though, but I just don't know how to improve. You guys have any tips and such?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12818090*
> Guys, I'm the lowest of the low in bronze. Pretty much I suck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to improve though, but I just don't know how to improve. You guys have any tips and such?


Take a look at the first page. Episode 132 of Day9 is my favorite I recommend watching that.


----------



## Lettuceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12818202*
> Take a look at the first page. Episode 132 of Day9 is my favorite I recommend watching that.


I tried going through the Day9 stuff, but there are so many videos I can't tell which one are the newbie ones


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Blinker that's usually what I do, spam op messages and talk like Idra. Feels good man, cus BM like you just don't care.

Browse artosis's youtube channel for tutorial videos. Also check day9's newbie tuesday videos. However that video suggested to build probes, foodblock, macro/money low, chrono is an essential video to watch.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12818303*
> I tried going through the Day9 stuff, but there are so many videos I can't tell which one are the newbie ones


This thread will help:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154

Then scroll down to 132.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2494686#blog



















mmm grand master ...... going for it.

If not I'll get that high master icon.


----------



## DoomDash

Also some other nice info from a thread on the reset:
Quote:


> Ideally about three months with a two week lock before the reset. Three months allows for better division placement by the end, and a bonus pool that isn't so huge that unless you're constantly playing never have any hopes to churn through.
> 
> Season 1 ended up being about nine months, and in the hopes of simply not prolonging it any further, the lock is only one week.
> 
> There are variables that could dictate when new Seasons happen, but in general we're looking at new Seasons beginning approximately every three months.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12813300*
> Colossus is an obvious problem but FF might actually be worse because it tips the balance in the mid-game, which is the one part of the game where zerg is supposed to be able to fight on an equal footing. *It's also the part of the game where zerg has to make something happen to prevent the deathball from being completed.* What happens after the deathball appears is all academic because the game is already over at that point.


You do raise a good point especially the bolded part








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12816182*
> OCN used to be cool because it wasn't like the mindless TL SC2Strat section talking about FOTM-imba-rant


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12816705*
> Life is imba.


rofl, but, yes doom, life is imba







yks, this is a discussion thread, discussing units/abilities that one perceives to be OP is part of a discussion. Sounds to me like someone doesn't like that P is the FoTM








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12819350*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2494686#blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mmm grand master ...... going for it.
> 
> If not I'll get that high master icon.


Not really impressive tbh. I was expecting something more, but, it'll do. Wonder if some people will actually start to ladder to try and get the Top 8 one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12816899*
> There has always been some qq'ing, especially after the end of each GSL season. Now is the time for protoss. The lower the league the more people tend to blame balance for their losses.


Is this referring to me? I haven't watched the GSL since season 3 and never mentioned that FF or colossi are the main reason for my losses, although, colossi do play a small role


----------



## DoomDash

No probably more towards Lucas who spends 99% of his posts QQing about how imba the world is.


----------



## Lettuceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12819277*
> This thread will help:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154
> 
> Then scroll down to 132.


Ah, thanks man. Makes things so much easier!


----------



## DoomDash

1.3 is live in SEA, more info rolling out:

Quote:



*On March 22 2011 12:07 justiceknight wrote:*
parts of map changed in 1.3
credit to
myself lol
Simbot
Ezekyle

*1v1*

*Shakuras plataeu
Backdoor rocks are removed
2 rocks are placed near the 3rd of 12oclock and 6 oclock expo
rocks protecting the 3rd are removed.
*



















12oclock backdoor missing









12oclock with 2 new rocks









rock protecting 3rd is gone









*Backwater Gulch*

Ramp......









*NEW 1V1 MAP TAL DARIM ALTAR LE*

3rd expo with rocks + all 1500 minerals + 2 gas










* 3V3 MAP *

*CINDER FORTRESS 1.0*


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12819899*
> No probably more towards Lucas who spends 99% of his posts QQing about how imba the world is.


Lol, not really anyone in particular. Just a general observation.

Tal Darim Altar is an awesome map.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, I love it! New Shakuras is sweet too.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


rofl, but, yes doom, life is imba







yks, this is a discussion thread, discussing units/abilities that one perceives to be OP is part of a discussion. Sounds to me like someone doesn't like that P is the FoTM










I don't mind discussion, that's what a forum is.

But stuff like what Ghost said with: "Almost all of the top protoss players have now realized the effectiveness of forcefields and are just going mass sentries," really makes me laugh.

Cause nothing's changed with FF, it's still the same FF since before GSL5. It's not like a pro saw MC's FF and was like, "MAN! I should FF like that!"

A lot of these low-level people see those games, see those FF's and immediately blame said forcefields. Not looking @ what MC did to get into the position where his FF's were made to seem so good. They basically fall for an illusion and ignore other aspects of his incredible night.

Don't fall for illusions please.

ps. P isn't FoTM, the FF QQ is FoTM


----------



## DoomDash

I think P is FoTM but that doesn't mean IMBA.


----------



## yks

P is hot right now, no doubt.


----------



## ablearcher

balance constantly shifts, so it makes a lovely constant stream of player adjustments to gameplay


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think a lot of the has to do with timing. At one portion of time one race have the upper hand, while another time another race has the upper hand. A lot has to do with the map. For example, during the meta game terran vs P, terran bio in small to medium group will be very effective in multiple theaters of war against the gateway plus 0-2 col. They can attack the third in meta, while having another group dropped in the main.

In the above scenario, pre attack, P has to gauge the use of chrono and what unit composition to make. If P spreads the ball into two equal numbered groups to deal with both sides of attack, then stimmed T can kill both groups. So Protoss has to either intercept the drop ship, or decide to take the majority of the force to one side and give up the other (with fewer units to stall the attack). This means Toss probes/nexus at the third, or tech in the main may be taking out dependent on where he chose to take the majority of his army.

Another example of timed based imba is where the zerg is on a base and a half in terms of economy, and straight up bust the opponent who has fast expanded on three gate/rax. For vs players that were greedy, the zerg gets an easy win.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1.3 is live in SEA, more info rolling out:


The problem with tal d alt is that everytime I play on it in custom, it turns into a base trade war.

The problem with backwater is that in PvZ it's almost impossible to play unless it's a 4 gate vs Z.

Will Shakuras be put back in 1v1 ladder?

Btw my mum's coming to visit from NYC, so I'll be busy for a while, but I'd like to take up on the coaching afterwards for masters. Skype's name is treguo ([email protected]). I wana get to masters asap.


----------



## Plex

Woo, just broke 3k Master!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12823829*
> Woo, just broke 3k Master!


Welcome to the party







.

Yellow I will help you when you're ready. Jediwin is a good coach as well.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824037*
> Welcome to the party
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yellow I will help you when you're ready. Jediwin is a good coach as well.


Sorry, help me with what? Lol


----------



## Allenssmart

how are you guys playing? isn't sc2 still down on the na servers? i can't log on


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12824118*
> how are you guys playing? isn't sc2 still down on the na servers? i can't log on


I'm not playing now. I'm at work now, I broke 3000 yesterday.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12824080*
> Sorry, help me with what? Lol


2nd part was directed at yellowtoblerone.

We aren't playing... still down.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824153*
> 2nd part was directed at yellowtoblerone.


Aha, silly me. I read that as "Yellow and I will help you..." Ignore me







.

So, who is excited for this patch!?


----------



## DoomDash

I am. BC rush time.


----------



## cory1234

I feel like Protoss got more of a buff than a nerf.

No more bonus pool...noooooo.


----------



## Plex

Could someone do me a huge favor and quote the patch notes so I can read them again? Can't access the website at work. <33


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12824318*
> I feel like Protoss got more of a buff than a nerf.
> 
> No more bonus pool...noooooo.


How so?

Patch notes:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.3.0
> 
> General
> 
> Leagues & Ladders
> 
> A new Grandmaster League has been added for 1v1 ladders. This league represents the Top 200 players in each region.
> Players are automatically drafted into the Grandmaster League shortly after a new season starts, and will remain in the Grandmaster League until the end of the season. If a Grandmaster player's available bonus points get too high due to inactivity, they will be automatically removed from the league and a replacement player will be drafted in.
> The Grandmaster League can be viewed by all players through the new Leagues & Ladders > Grandmaster page.
> The bonus pool has been reduced for arranged teams.
> Leagues will now be locked during the final weeks of the season. As a result players will not accumulate additional bonus points and will not be promoted or demoted out of their current division during this period.
> This will allow players to focus on moving up in their current league without being promoted during the final weeks of a season, and having to fight their way up from the bottom ranks of their new higher league.
> Players can still utilize any bonus points they previously accumulated.
> Ladder data from the prior season can be viewed through the new Leagues & Ladders > Last Season page.
> New league icons have been introduced to indicate division rank. These will indicate the Top 8, 25 and 50 players in each division.
> 
> Loss counts are no longer displayed in Profile and Ladder pages for players below Master League.
> 
> Join Custom Game
> 
> Several improvements have been made to the Join Custom Game section:
> The Details panel has been removed from this page. Map details are now shown inside a tooltip for each game.
> Players can now bookmark their favorite custom games! The number of times a game has been bookmarked will be shown in that game's tooltip.
> Games are now organized into several pages to make finding your desired game type easier:
> Featured: Our team is always on the lookout for new games that are lots of fun. Our latest favorites are shown on this page.
> Most Popular: Shows all game types, with the most played games sorted to the top.
> By Category: This page allows you to browse through Custom Games based on Category.
> Up & Coming: This page highlights games that other players are recommending, but haven't yet become popular.
> Fun or Not: From this page you can automatically join a random new Custom Game. After the game, players using Fun or Not are asked to recommend the map (or not). Recommending maps helps get them onto the Up & Coming page.
> Recently Played: The last several games you've played are shown here. Use this to quickly get back into games you play often, or to easily bookmark a game you enjoyed playing.
> Bookmarks: Use this page to view your Bookmarked maps.
> A search option has been added to the Join Custom Game interface.
> 
> Observer and Replay UI
> 
> New panels are now available when observing or viewing a replay of 1v1 games. These panels can be toggled via hotkeys which are shown under the Leader Panel drop-down.
> Player Name Panel: Displays the players' name, team color, race, and supply count.
> Stat Comparison Panels: Shows a head-to-head comparison of players' resources, army supply, units killed, or APM.
> In 1v1 observed games, both players' resource rows are shown in the upper right at the same time.
> The main game UI can now be hidden/shown via hotkey.
> You can now toggle between player unit colors and team unit colors when watching a replay or observing.
> 
> Game Options
> 
> A new Control page is available from the Options menu. You'll find Mouse, Keyboard and Scrolling options within this new page.
> A new menu option is available in the Gameplay page to change the behavior of Control Group Buttons. These can now be set to ignore mouse clicks or be hidden completely.
> The existing menu option under the Gameplay page for Menu Bar Buttons now also supports hiding the Menu Bar.
> 
> Balance
> 
> GENERAL
> Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (ex: Viking flower).
> 
> PROTOSS
> 
> Mothership
> Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
> 
> High Templar
> 
> Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
> 
> Zealot
> 
> Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.
> 
> TERRAN
> 
> Battlecruiser
> 
> Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
> 
> Bunker
> 
> Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
> 
> Ghost
> 
> EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged.
> 
> Tech Lab
> 
> Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
> 
> ZERG
> 
> Infestor
> 
> Fungal Growth
> 
> Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
> Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
> 
> StarCraft II Editor Improvements
> 
> Reworked Game Variants dialog to be more user-friendly:
> General tab has been removed. This text did not appear anywhere in game.
> Attributes tab has been split into Game Attributes and Player Attributes.
> Attribute UI now more closely reflects the game lobby.
> Default values are now enforced as necessary based on Player Properties.
> In some cases, variants defined in previous versions will no longer be compatible and may cause problems during publishing or within the game lobby. If you are planning to republish a map that uses custom game variants, it is highly recommended that you use the new Game Variants dialog to delete and recreate them.
> Improved loading times for some custom maps with complex tech restrictions.
> The compiled script memory has been split into a separate block from the global/local stack block. Additional improvements will be made to provide more memory space in the future.
> Command card editor and actor event editor will now be less vulnerable to data errors from changes made in future patches.
> The game cursor now remains visible while loading maps.
> Debug outputs are now displayed in the editor and in-game when using Test Document.
> New trigger actions have been added:
> Set Camera Data: Changes the active camera data settings, as defined in the Data module.
> Show/Hide Resource: Shows or hides the specified resource in the UI.
> Lock/Unlock Status Bar: Forces or resets all status bars for a player to a specified state.
> Set Random Seed: Sets the random game seed to the requested value.
> Enable/Disable Selection Type: A new UI Editor action to disable the various ways that players can change their selected unit.
> New trigger functions have been added:
> Convert Game Hotkey: Looks up hotkey as text.
> Convert Game Asset: Looks up asset path as text.
> Add On Child: Returns the child unit attached to the specified parent.
> Add On Parent: Returns the parent unit attached to the specified child.
> Catalog Entry Is Default: Returns if the specified entry is a default.
> Catalog Field Value Get As Integer: Converts the requested field data into an integer, if possible.
> Test Document preferences can now configure an explicit random seed value.
> Automatic backup feature (Preferences > Documents) now includes a User Folder location option, which corresponds to a folder named EditorBackup within your StarCraft II documents folder.
> Units can now specify a revive cost that will override an ability specific cost. Revive cooldowns & charges located on the unit will now be attached to the unit being revived.
> Instant larva-style training will now charge resources properly.
> Upgrades modifying units produced by Arm Magazine, Build, Merge, Morph, Train, and Warp Train abilities are now fully supported.
> The Chance field in effects is now upgradeable.
> Support for browsing Battle.net "Featured" and "Up And Coming" maps in the Open Document window has been added.
> The Player Property and Modify Player Property triggers can now disable the cost for each resource type.
> Added a text preview pane to the text editing controls.
> Added additional states to behaviors, Set Unit State, and Unit Classification Check triggers to determine if a unit is detectable or shown by a radar.
> Added armor to the Unit Property and Unit Type Property triggers.
> Added Weapon Damage and Weapon Speed Multiplier triggers.
> Added support to refresh all buffs of the same type when adding a new instance by using the new "Refresh Stack" flag.
> Added a "Wait to Spend" flag, which is enabled by default, to effect abilities so configure whether orders wait until a cooldown or charge becomes available before they create their effect.
> Added an "Offset Area by Angle" flag to search effects to adjust the angle of the search based on the locations involved.
> Added an Idle Command to unit data to configure what order the unit performs when idle.
> Added an actor message to allow models to change their hit-testable status.
> Additional options can now be configured using the command card editor.
> Additional data is now saved out by the data editor to overrides made in arrays of structures to try to prevent unintended changes made to the original data from breaking it.
> Additional cheats are now available in-game when using Test Document.
> Ally - Changes all alliance states between the selected players. By default, if you just type Ally, then all players share all alliance states with you.
> AllianceDefeat - Changes the Defeat alliance state between the selected players. By default, if you just type AllianceDefeat, all players will share defeat with you.
> AllianceControl - Changes the Control alliance state between the selected players. By default, if you just type AllianceControl, then all players share control with you.
> AllianceGiveHelp - Changes the GiveHelp alliance state between the selected players. By default, if you just type AllianceGiveHelp, all players will respond to calls for help from your units.
> AlliancePassive - Changes the Passive alliance state between the selected players. Players that you are not passive with will be considered hostile for attacking purposes.
> AlliancePushable - Changes the Pushable alliance state between the selected players. This controls whether a player's units will move through another player's units, pushing them out of the way.
> AllianceSeekHelp - Changes the SeekHelp alliance state between the selected players. Controls whether a player's units call for help to the specified target player. The target player can choose to respond or not, depending on its GiveHelp alliance setting.
> AllianceSpend - Changes the Spend alliance state between the selected players. Players that you are sharing resources with are allowed to spend your money to purchase things.
> AllianceTrade - Changes the Trade alliance state between the selected players. Players that you are trading with can be sent resources.
> AllianceVision - Changes the Vision alliance state between the selected players.
> BehaviorAdd - Adds the requested behavior to the selected units.
> BehaviorDuration - Sets the duration of the requested behavior.
> BehaviorRemove - Removes the requested behavior from the selected units.
> Charges - Toggles spell charge validation.
> Cooldown - Toggles spell cooldown validation.
> Creep - Adds creep at the cursor position given the requested radius.
> DamageDealt - Multiplies the amount of damage dealt by a player's units by the specified value. By default, this will multiply the damage dealt by 10 for the cheating player.
> DamageTaken - Multiplies the amount of damage taken by a player's units by the specified value. By default, this will reduce all damage taken to 0 for the cheating player.
> DeathAll - Kills all units on the map.
> DeathExcept - Kills all units on the map except the selected units.
> DeathSide - Kills all units owned by the selected player.
> DeathUnit - Kills the selected units. The type of death can be specified as a parameter.
> Defeat - Ends the game in defeat for the selected player.
> DestroyPersistent - Destroys all persistent effects within the specified radius of the cursor.
> Effect - Executes the requested effect from the selected units.
> FastBuild - Toggles fast building, research, and training times.
> FastHeal - Toggles fast healing times.
> Fidget - Forces selected units to perform the specified fidget type.
> Food - Toggles food usage validation.
> Free - Toggles resource cost validation and expenditure.
> God - Turns on god mode for the selected player. Units owned by players that are in god mode will deal amplified damage, and take no damage.
> Loot - Drops a type of loot for the specified player.
> MakeUnit - Creates N units for the specified player. Units will be created around the cursor position, or in the center of the map if the cursor position is invalid.
> Minerals - Adds the specified amount of minerals to the selected player.
> Move - Moves the selected units to the cursor position.
> NoDefeat - Disables defeat conditions.
> NoVictory - Disables victory conditions.
> Order - Orders the selected units to use an ability.
> Owner - Changes ownership for the selected units to the selected player.
> ResourceCustom - Adds the specified amount of a custom resource to the selected player.
> SetAll - Sets the life, shields, and energy of the selected units to the specified value. By default, this will set these values to the maximum amount.
> SetLife - Sets the life of the selected units to the specified value.
> SetEnergy - Sets the energy of the selected units to the specified value.
> SetLife - Sets the life of the selected units to the specified value.
> SetShields - Sets the shields of the selected units to the specified value.
> SetResource - Sets the harvestable resources contained by the selected units to the specified value.
> ShowMap - Toggles fog of war display and validation.
> TechTree - Toggles tech tree dependency validation.
> Terrazine - Adds the specified amount of terrazine to the specified player.
> Tie - Marks all undecided players with the tie result.
> TimeOfDay - Sets the time of day to the specified time.
> TimeOfDayRate - Sets the rate that the time of day changes to the specified value.
> TrigDebug - Opens the trigger debug window.
> TrigRun - Runs the specified trigger.
> Uncreep - Removes creep at the cursor position given the requested radius.
> Undecided - Marks the selected player's result as undecided.
> Upgrade - Applies the selected upgrade to the selected player.
> Vespene - Adds the specified amount of vespene gas to the specified player.
> Victory - Ends the game in defeat for all players that don't share the defeat alliance state with the selected player.
> XP - Adds a relative amount of XP to the selected units. This can be used to change veterancy levels.
> 
> Bug Fixes
> 
> Achievements
> Fixed a bug where players were not receiving "Wings Of Liberty: Hard" and "Wings Of Liberty: Brutal" achievements after completing the appropriate number of missions.
> 
> Battle.net
> Fixed a bug where some Bronze players weren't gaining enough points for wins and were losing too many points for losses.
> 
> Gameplay
> StarCraft II will continue running if corrupt textures/models/sounds are encountered.
> Conversation skipping and trigger skipping now share the same hotkey.
> The notification that a player left the game during a paused game is no longer delayed until the game is unpaused.
> Cheat codes now only accept official names.
> Unit response sounds are now updated immediately when the selection changes.
> Unit death will no longer show units on the other side of line of sight blockers that weren't already visible.
> Units ordered to load into a transport now follow the transport if the transport fills up and they have no other orders.
> Units inside a Bunker no longer disappear if the bunker is destroyed and surrounded by Force Fields.
> Units can now be revived multiple times.
> Hero buttons are now displayed while a hero is dead if they are revivable. Clicking on the button while a hero is dead will either select the building reviving it or cycle between buildings that can.
> Revivable abilities now show revivable units all the time. If they cannot currently be revived, the buttons are shown disabled.
> The revive ability now works with multiple dead units.
> Revived units now properly dispatch a trigger event when killed again.
> Added additional information to unit tooltips in the tech trees.
> An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
> An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
> An alert has been added when the Spawn Larvae buff expires.
> Fixed an issue with not being able to land where you just lifted off if there was a nearby unit.
> Fixed an issue where you could push Hold Position units by Move/Hold Position spamming.
> Fixed an issue to prevent Force Fields from pushing units during construction.
> Fixed an issue with creep destroying more foliage than it should, and made foliage destruction by creep faster.
> Fixed an issue with custom global hotkeys in grid profiles overlapping with unit command buttons.
> Fixed an issue placing Terran add-on buildings when multiple buildings were selected.
> The stalemate timer will now reset when any player gathers resources, researches an upgrade, produces a unit, constructs a building, or destroys an enemy building.
> Additional stalemate warnings are no longer displayed when the game ends in a stalemate.
> Flying cloaked units are no longer revealed as detected when shown through the fog of war.
> Vespene Geysers that are taken by your opponent and are under the fog of war no longer randomly flash on and off on the mini-map.
> Enemy buildings completed while being revealed due to friendly unit death will now properly create snapshots in the fog of war.
> Casting Neural Parasite on a Zerg Cocoon will not cancel the spell until after the cocoon completes its transformation.
> Changes made to autocast abilities while a unit is under the effects of Neural Parasite are now reset to their default state when Neural Parasite ends.
> Queuing multiple targets with 250mm Strike Cannons will no longer result in the Thor being stuck until the cooldown ends.
> Workers gathering minerals can no longer continue to harvest minerals if they are pushed away by a Force Field.
> Orders issued to unload units from a Medivac onto itself can now be canceled if the Medivac is scanning for units to heal.
> The Harvester count in the income leader panel now updates correctly.
> Bi-directional transformations (i.e. those used by Vikings, Siege Tanks, and burrowing units) are no longer shown in the production leader panel.
> The resources from salvaged Bunkers are no longer counted towards the resources lost in the units lost leader panel.
> The Mute OS Microphone button has been removed from the Options' Voice page.
> Tech trees now show icons for units that are produced by a building and display the names for units that are unlocked by a building.
> Using Edit Box Trigger Dialogs should no longer generate trigger errors.
> Media keys can no longer be bound to a custom hotkey.
> Hotkeys configured in a mod are now loaded properly without having to open the Hotkeys page.
> Mouse-based hotkeys are now handled properly when the cursor is over the mini-map.
> Mouse-based hotkeys bound with modifiers are now displayed correctly in the Hotkeys page.
> The hotkey for the Cancel button is now displayed when targeting with an ability if the Command Hotkey Text option is enabled.
> 
> StarCraft II Editor
> Fixed an issue where editor control files could not be loaded in all languages.
> Fixed an issue with pasting text values in the editor.
> Fixed an issue where certain data fields would not list all possible values.
> Fixed an issue where the editor would crash after pasting a placed unit.
> Fixed a crash using the Unit Weapon Firing validator.
> Player Properties will no longer allow all 16 players to be User/Computer, which is not supported.
> Animations in the previewer will now display using localized text.
> Game and player versions of the cooldown & charge triggers now interpret time values correctly.
> Sounds played simultaneously for multiple players via the Play Sound trigger can now be heard properly.
> Increasing the maximum number of charges with an upgrade no longer increases the current number of charges.
> Setting a unit's training progress to 100% will no longer cancel the training.


----------



## rhed5

My new mouse is here. Razer Abyssus. will see if it stops hurting my hands, if so, might start meleeing & laddering. if not, the mouse is going back; Need an ergonomic one which doesn't hurt me hands


----------



## cory1234

This
Quote:


> Leagues will now be locked during the final weeks of the season. As a result players will not accumulate additional bonus points and will not be promoted or demoted out of their current division during this period.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12824383*
> My new mouse is here. Razer Abyssus. will see if it stops hurting my hands, if so, might start meleeing & laddering. if not, the mouse is going back; Need an ergonomic one which doesn't hurt me hands












I still have 70 bonus pool .


----------



## rhed5

My hands are beautiful dude, would destroy duchovny in a hand-off. Now only if they weren't so brittle & fragile.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824372*
> How so?
> 
> Patch notes:


Thank you sir! +rep


----------



## Plex

Wow, they nerfed the Viking flower! Nooo!

Also, huge Fungal nerf.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12824663*
> Wow, they nerfed the Viking flower! Nooo!
> 
> Also, huge Fungal nerf.


You must re-read that Fungal change. It's a huge buff. Less movement time, but double DPS and +30% to armored. If you hit one FG the 2nd, 3rd, and so on are guaranteed.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824724*
> You must re-read that Fungal change. It's a huge buff. Less movement time, but double DPS and +30% to armored. If you hit one FG the 2nd, 3rd, and so on are guaranteed.


How do you figure "double DPS?" It's a nerf in the sense that stimmed rines got rocked by fungal + blings. 4 less seconds of stun is pretty huge.

Against Marauders and tanks? I suppose it's a buff then, but you can hit more Marines with one good fungal than beefier units like those, so it evens out a little more.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12820491*
> I don't mind discussion, that's what a forum is.
> 
> But stuff like what Ghost said with: "Almost all of the top protoss players have now realized the effectiveness of forcefields and are just going mass sentries," really makes me laugh.
> 
> Cause nothing's changed with FF, it's still the same FF since before GSL5. It's not like a pro saw MC's FF and was like, "MAN! I should FF like that!"
> 
> A lot of these low-level people see those games, see those FF's and immediately blame said forcefields. Not looking @ what MC did to get into the position where his FF's were made to seem so good. They basically fall for an illusion and ignore other aspects of his incredible night.
> 
> Don't fall for illusions please.
> 
> ps. P isn't FoTM, the FF QQ is FoTM


Since I haven't watched the latest GSL, I'm under no illusion about FF. What I say comes mostly from what I've seen and what I've seen lately is a lot more P players are going for sentries then usual then adding in stalkers. Wise idea? No clue, since, that's 100 gas/sentry which could be used for upgrades or to get some stalkers, etc....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12824195*
> Aha, silly me. I read that as "Yellow and I will help you..." Ignore me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So, who is excited for this patch!?


I'm excited, no more KA








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12824318*
> I feel like Protoss got more of a buff than a nerf.
> 
> No more bonus pool...noooooo.


How so? Didn't P lose the KA?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824372*
> How so?
> 
> Patch notes:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12824383*
> My new mouse is here. Razer Abyssus. will see if it stops hurting my hands, if so, might start *meleeing & laddering*. if not, the mouse is going back; Need an ergonomic one which doesn't hurt me hands


Sounds like excuses to me








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;12824487*
> My hands are beautiful dude, would destroy *duchovny* in a hand-off. Now only if they weren't so brittle & fragile.


Who's that?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12824663*
> Wow, they nerfed the Viking flower! Nooo!
> 
> Also, huge Fungal nerf.


hmm, they reduced it to 4 but the damage remains the same, they also increased damage to armored, sounds like it got buffed









Interesting notes:
- Units inside a Bunker no longer disappear if the bunker is destroyed and surrounded by Force Fields.
- An alert has been added when the Spawn Larvae buff expires.
- Vespene Geysers that are taken by your opponent and are under the fog of war no longer randomly flash on and off on the mini-map.
Not sure if I like the alert though, much prefer to fix up my own timings :/


----------



## Plex

Yeah, I understand your guys' point that less stun time = more fungals = more dps (I assume this is where you got your "double"). I guess I'm just trying to apply it realistically to how I play Terran and when fungals actually hurt me. I suppose when you look at it that way then it is a buff, then.


----------



## DoomDash

No, it is a 4 second spell that does the same 36 damage as before. So its double DPS because its half the length.


----------



## Blaze051806

patch sweet. downtime fail lol

i wanted to play before work ><

any idea when the servers might be up EST?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaze051806;12824957*
> patch sweet. downtime fail lol
> 
> i wanted to play before work ><
> 
> any idea when the servers might be up EST?


2 PM your time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824978*
> 2 PM your time.


u serious?







and here I was hoping to get a game or two in now


----------



## Blaze051806

^ Thank you.

oh well i should be able to get a few matches in lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12824988*
> u serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here I was hoping to get a game or two in now


According to their 11 AM PDT estimate yes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12825021*
> According to their 11 AM PDT estimate yes.


I know, was mostly making a joke







Was guessing its the same as their previous patch downtimes


----------



## Lucas Lamer

BC is as fast as a marine now. I've already been rushed. Early hellion balls look stronger than ever now because of their ability to force roach and spinecrawler production without delaying the terran tech. Zerg gets roaches and crawlers to counter the hellion ball, then BC/marine comes. It's brutal. It's like hellion ball followed by tank/marine, only worse.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12826236*
> BC is as fast as a marine now. I've already been rushed. Early hellion balls look stronger than ever now because of their ability to force roach and spinecrawler production without delaying the terran tech. Zerg gets roaches and crawlers to counter the hellion ball, then BC/marine comes. It's brutal. It's like hellion ball followed by tank/marine, only worse.


Just played a ZvsT against doom on Shakuras. BCs are lighting fast XD He rushed me, wasn't ready so was able to take out maybe 4 with 4 left or so. GG, like their newer speed, but, their cost still puts me off


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12826236*
> BC is as fast as a marine now. I've already been rushed. Early hellion balls look stronger than ever now because of their ability to force roach and spinecrawler production without delaying the terran tech. Zerg gets roaches and crawlers to counter the hellion ball, then BC/marine comes. It's brutal. It's like hellion ball followed by tank/marine, only worse.


Thats my build except double port banshee into BC. You cant just go BC unless the Z is a poor scout.

Also BC are as fast as Carriers now, not even close to marine speed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12826509*
> Just played a ZvsT against doom on Shakuras. BCs are lighting fast XD He rushed me, wasn't ready so was able to take out maybe 4 with 4 left or so. GG, like their newer speed, but, their cost still puts me off


He _rushed_ you with 8 battlecruisers?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12826685*
> Thats my build except double port banshee into BC. You cant just go BC unless the Z is a poor scout.
> 
> Also BC are as fast as Carriers now, not even close to marine speed.


I watched the replay very closely. The BC had no trouble keeping up with the marines as they jogged across the map.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12826760*
> I watched the replay very closely. The BC had no trouble keeping up with the marines as they jogged across the map.


1.8xx vs 2.25.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12826943*
> 1.8xx vs 2.25.


It's a very small difference. The marines and BC's can move as one mass and the BC lags ever so slightly.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12824781*
> How do you figure "double DPS?" It's a nerf in the sense that stimmed rines got rocked by fungal + blings. 4 less seconds of stun is pretty huge.
> 
> Against Marauders and tanks? I suppose it's a buff then, but you can hit more Marines with one good fungal than beefier units like those, so it evens out a little more.


Double DPS because Pre-Patch it was 36 over 8 seconds or 36/8 which ='s 4.5dmg a second

Now it's 36 damage over 4 seconds which is 36/4 for 9 dmg a second.

So it's double DPS and 30% more towards armored units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12827004*
> It's a very small difference. The marines and BC's can move as one mass and the BC lags ever so slightly.


Small differences are huge in SCII







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12824037*
> Yellow I will help you when you're ready. Jediwin is a good coach as well.


You forgot about me and my pro coach-ness =[


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12827428*
> You forgot about me and my pro coach-ness =[


As long as you keep playing yah.


----------



## Lettuceman

Just watched, episode 132 of the Daily9.....
I've been playing this game totally wrong....that video just enlightened me............

I still have trouble remembering everything, but I'm gonna get their eventually.









But seriously, its like I had an epiphany. I now know what I need to work on! Just gotta get a build order memorized, and just remember to do everything I need to do.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12827751*
> Just watched, episode 132 of the Daily9.....
> I've been playing this game totally wrong....that video just enlightened me............
> 
> I still have trouble remembering everything, but I'm gonna get their eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, its like I had an epiphany. I now know what I need to work on! Just gotta get a build order memorized, and just remember to do everything I need to do.


Told you that episode rocks.

Not exactly SCII related but Husky is in this:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuEeNzXi9VU[/ame]


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/idra-in-dallas-mlg-interview
> 
> MLG: Let's get into some strategy questions. Terran and Protoss players can block their ramps to prevent scouting, and well-placed Marines and Stalkers can prevent an Overlord from seeing any hidden tech structures. What is your advice for Zerg players in these situations?
> 
> Idra: There is no great answer to that situation; it's the basis of a good percentage of the imbalance complaints about Zerg. You just have to constantly probe their ramp with Zerglings and hope you see something. Watch for add-ons, upgrades, what is being Chronoboosted, and what units you can see. Extra Queens are usually a good option if you can't get any information at all, *but at that point it's basically a guessing game.*


Hey everybody, Idra is talking! Regardless of what you think about him, I think the bolded part is hard to argue with. Sloverlord scouting is very easy to stop, so Zerg's early survival frequently depends on luck. That's just a fact. I enjoy hearing Steven Bonnell make wisecracks about the lameness of sloverlord scouting. He's a lot funnier than Idra, but so is everybody.


----------



## yks

Why so Debbie Downer, Lucas? Lets get some positive for Zerg, like this:
Quote:


> MLG: How do you think the Infestor change will change the Protoss army composition in ZvP?
> 
> Idra: I'm not really sure what they're going to do because their best composition versus Zerg is all armored: Stalkers, Collosi and Void Rays. *And Fungal is going to destroy that now*. But Protoss light units aren't very good versus Zerg into the mid/lategame; Banelings are very good if they can avoid forcefields, and Roach/Hydra is cost efficient versus light unit mixes as well. I think PvZ is likely to devolve into timing all-ins unless someone comes up with something weird.


Every race has its weakness/strength.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12829402*
> Why so Debbie Downer, Lucas? Lets get some positive for Zerg, like this:
> 
> Every race has its weakness/strength.


It is good news. I already tried infestors in some PvZ action and they definitely work better. Finally infestors are worth their purchase price in PvZ games. It's nice to have another unit worth buying.


----------



## DoomDash

3500+







. 28 bonus pool left.


----------



## yks

Cella! Now the Coach of SlayerS!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=204024

!!!! 150K proleague ... by IGN!?!?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


He _rushed_ you with 8 battlecruisers?










lol, ok, well, maybe rushed wasn't the best term, but, scouting is a major issue for me. I dropped some changelings but I guess I still had the overseer selected, so, I didn't get a chance to see the core aside from the starports. I think a minute or two later, I see 8 BCs or so coming towards my base XD I would've been able to prepare had they kept the old speed









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=204024

!!!! 150K proleague ... by IGN!?!?


Interesting, this with NASL+GSL will keep SCII alive for a long time


----------



## Ruckol1

I'd be all for some coaching sessions


----------



## yks

B.Net needs to get back up! =[


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=203564

IGN, NASL, GSL, TeSL

Danggggggggggggg


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=203564

IGN, NASL, GSL, TeSL

Danggggggggggggg


Expect some CSL soon, maybe ESL soon XD


----------



## Vuashke

im really surprised that sc2 leagues have been so popular considering how inferior the players and competition are compared to sc

but hurrr it has great graphics!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vuashke*


im really surprised that sc2 leagues have been so popular considering how inferior the players and competition are compared to sc

but hurrr it has great graphics!


99% of everything is better. I was a die hard SC1 fan... but SCII is better.

Anyway, f**k Zerg. I hate them so much.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12832428*
> Expect some CSL soon, maybe ESL soon XD


They need to get bigger.


----------



## DoomDash

406 points away from top 200 in NA. Reasonable ?


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12833655*
> 99% of everything is better. I was a die hard SC1 fan... but SCII is better.
> 
> Anyway, f**k Zerg. I hate them so much.


no


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12835054*
> no


Afraid so my friend, afraid so. I played SC1 since the very beginning. I played when people like Agent911 were the famous pros, when the IN clan was big. I played since before battle.net could even work with a router to save its life, on kali. I was also playing in X17 on battle.net in its prime.

**** look I even have battle reports of me from the year 2000. I've played both, SC1 for years and years, and I am telling you SCII is better in almost every way.
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone listen to this weeks state of the game? They spent some time going over how broken / ridiculous the new FG is, especially vs Terran.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone listen to this weeks state of the game? They spent some time going over how broken / ridiculous the new FG is, especially vs Terran.


Time to feel the pain.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Time to feel the pain.


I already thought Zerg was the best race







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Zerg is abit hard to play though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...GCbFfVrM#t=13s


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ Zerg needs it , Terran is OP


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


^^ Zerg needs it , Terran is OP


Terran hasn't been considered OP for ages now! Get with the program







.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Zerg is abit hard to play though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...GCbFfVrM#t=13s


I disagree. I play Z at least at high Diamond level and if I spent half the time on Z as T I would be sick good. In fact my Zerg was way better than my Terran for ages, just playing casually. Probably has to do with my style though.


----------



## DoomDash

Certain maps ( I think ) seem to make either my video card or CPU lag and my frames some what drop. It says I'm getting 54 FPS with the FPS meter on, but 54 FPS should still look flawless. Normally when everything is running like it should its capped at 60+ and never drops below. Anyone else experience? Time to over clock my CPU?


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ I have the same issue and I feel Like we have similar rigs

It's just some custom maps that are not setup correctly

You should OC you card a bit and with a 8270 can't u get 3.3 ghz + out of your I7


----------



## yks

it's the patch, the current patch is ******* up FPS


----------



## Nutriment

There's no easier race to play, as you can ALWAYS perfect something, but I do agree that zerg needs more e-APM to be good, as you need to inject larva each 22 secondes, control both your workers rally points and unit rally points, queuing units is alot easier with terran, than zerg, than protoss (cause protoss actually requires you to move ur screen near a pylon). But really each race has their advantages and disadvantages, I couldn't call any imbalances based purely on the way the races work... There's a lot of factors to consider, before saying something is imbalanced, please try another strat, if you keep losing to a 2-rax scv all-in because you 14 hatch on xelnaga caverns, then maybe it's time to scout more? Or to 12 pool, or 14 pool BEFORE the hatch. Instead of trying to change the game, try first to change your gamestyle, and if EVERY1 can't win against a strategy by any means, only then shall I call the strat imbalanced


----------



## Allenssmart

the new FG is op. I'm switching to toss, screw this. mutas op, banes op, lings op. terran is horrible now its gotten so many nerfs.

time to FF ramp until i get colossi and a -move to victory


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


the new FG is op. I'm switching to toss, screw this. mutas op, banes op, lings op. terran is horrible now its gotten so many nerfs.

time to FF ramp until i get colossi and a -move to victory


Mwarren is switching to Zerg. My other Master Terran friend is switching to Zerg as well. Sad day for Terrans. Threads on SCC are always complaining they are never playing Terrans anymore.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12841881*
> Zerg is abit hard to play though.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gI6GCbFfVrM#t=13s


LoL, neural parasite EMP your own Ghosts rofl


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I've been spending the last few days playing zerg in custom. Just for fun. I can see why some say it's easy to play and is OP. I still don't get the infestor changes though.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12843902*
> I've been spending the last few days playing zerg in custom. Just for fun. I can see why some say it's easy to play and is OP. I still don't get the infestor changes though.


Easy to play but easier to mess up


----------



## DoomDash

Terran is easy to mess up.... 1 non-perfect marine micro spread and you lose.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12843327*


Those sounds are really annoying. It forces me not to spam early game lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12844812*
> Terran is easy to mess up.... 1 non-perfect marine micro spread and you lose.


One bad forcefield... it goes for all the races.

Btw I think losses removal is quite lame. I can understand it for bronze/silver, but platinum+ should have stayed the old way.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12844998*
> Those sounds are really annoying. It forces me not to spam early game lol.
> 
> One bad forcefield... it goes for all the races.
> 
> Btw I think losses removal is quite lame. I can understand it for bronze/silver, but platinum+ should have stayed the old way.


Yes I agree to everything you say.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12844998*
> Those sounds are really annoying. It forces me not to spam early game lol.
> 
> One bad forcefield... it goes for all the races.
> 
> Btw I think losses removal is quite lame. I can understand it for bronze/silver, but platinum+ should have stayed the old way.


I agree as well


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12844998*
> Those sounds are really annoying. It forces me not to spam early game lol.
> 
> *One bad forcefield... it goes for all the races.*
> 
> Btw I think losses removal is quite lame. I can understand it for bronze/silver, but platinum+ should have stayed the old way.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12845087*
> Yes I agree to everything you say.


Well, I disagree fully! I mean with Zerg, if I move my slings into your MM, its GG. Accidently move my mutas near your 10 range thors, it's GG. Move close enough to hts, they'll get stormed. Move my units near some colossi, they are roasted before they even get there, etc.... Playing Zerg is tough as hell and T/P are easy mode like noobs only play T/P. Pros play Z, the toughest of all.
In case anyone missed it, I was being sarcastic







I agree to the statement above, all the races have their weakness/strengths/ways to mess up








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12843902*
> I've been spending the last few days playing zerg in custom. Just for fun. I can see why some say it's easy to play and is OP. I still don't get the infestor changes though.


Why not try playing Z in a non-custom? With customs, even if you lose, there are no points to lose and nothing is on the line. Give Z a try in a couple of games on the ladder. Hopefully, you'll get a chance at all the different matchups








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12843429*
> Mwarren is switching to Zerg. My other Master Terran friend is switching to Zerg as well. Sad day for Terrans. Threads on SCC are always complaining they are never playing Terrans anymore.


Talk about bizzare. He switches from T to P then T and now Z. I don't see the reason for this, Z might be a good race and interesting to play, but, after 2k games, I would think he's got a lot of his mechanics down with T and that switching wouldn't feel right








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12843274*
> the new FG is op. I'm switching to toss, screw this. mutas op, banes op, lings op. terran is horrible now its gotten so many nerfs.
> 
> time to FF ramp until i get colossi and a -move to victory


rofl, let me recall: First you were terran then you went P, then Z then T and now P







You'll never learn anything if you keep on switching races because all the races play differently. You can't queue for Z so you'll need to constantly check the larvae to make units. You can queue for T but you shouldn't and the timing is different. Likewise, P you can queue with gateways, but, with WG, you need to move to a pylon to wrap in units. Why not go random if you plan to keep on switching? Since I'm used to playing Z, whenever I play T/P, I forget that I can queue units(not that I should) and sometimes my structures are sitting idle while I could've had another 10+ units which are usually needed. Also, getting colossi doesn't mean a-move to victory, but, I do think that P can be harder for Z than T








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutriment;12843228*
> There's no easier race to play, as you can ALWAYS perfect something, but I do agree that zerg needs more e-APM to be good, as you need to inject larva each 22 secondes, control both your workers rally points and unit rally points, queuing units is alot easier with terran, than zerg, than protoss (cause protoss actually requires you to move ur screen near a pylon). But really each race has their advantages and disadvantages, I couldn't call any imbalances based purely on the way the races work... There's a lot of factors to consider, before saying something is imbalanced, please try another strat, if you keep losing to a 2-rax scv all-in because you 14 hatch on xelnaga caverns, then maybe it's time to scout more? Or to 12 pool, or 14 pool BEFORE the hatch. Instead of trying to change the game, try first to change your gamestyle, and if EVERY1 can't win against a strategy by any means, only then shall I call the strat imbalanced


Pretty much this, vary up strats. If everyone is losing to the same strat, only then could there be some imba


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12838111*
> Afraid so my friend, afraid so. I played SC1 since the very beginning. I played when people like Agent911 were the famous pros, when the IN clan was big. I played since before battle.net could even work with a router to save its life, on kali. I was also playing in X17 on battle.net in its prime.
> 
> **** look I even have battle reports of me from the year 2000. I've played both, SC1 for years and years, and I am telling you SCII is better in almost every way.
> http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809


and when did you stop playing/watching sc1?


----------



## Vuashke

"*Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.*" Liquid`Jinro

lulul


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12845737*
> "*Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.*" Liquid`Jinro
> 
> lulul


Curious when did he mention that?







If it was at the start of SCII, it's more understandable than atm. BW has had its time. It's still a fantastic game no doubt, but, now its SCII's time and once the NASL and IGN tourney start, SCII will likely surpass BW in popularity


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12845737*
> "*Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.*" Liquid`Jinro
> 
> lulul


Lot's of pros say the opposite. I'm sure its a matter of preference.

Even Jinro may like SCI more than II, but you bet your ass he still loves II. It could be purely nostalgia.

I'm telling you I loved SC1 with all my heart.. it's been my 2nd favorite game of all time since I could hold a controller / keyboard. Now I just say my 2nd favorite game is "Starcraft 1 and 2". Just hope you keep an open mind.


----------



## Norman Bum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12845737*
> "*Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.*" Liquid`Jinro
> 
> lulul


If Sc1 had waypoints, larger-than-12 control groups, etc. Than I would agree.

But as it stands, Sc2 is so much more fun simply because of the fact that it does not require as much tedious APM.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12845852*
> Lot's of pros say the opposite. I'm sure its a matter of preference.
> 
> Even Jinro may like SCI more than II, but you bet your ass he still loves II. It could be purely nostalgia.
> 
> I'm telling you I loved SC1 with all my heart.. it's been my *2nd favorite game* of all time since I could hold a controller / keyboard. Now I just say my 2nd favorite game is "Starcraft 1 and 2". Just hope you keep an open mind.


Curious, what's your first? Oh, wait, nm likely doom







I agree though, BW is a great game and like doom, I played it a lot(not competitively though) and kept on coming back year after year, but, some parts of BW seem really outdated gameplay-wise when compared to SCII and this is why more are getting into SCII due to the lower APM requirements


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12845999*
> Curious, what's your first? Oh, wait, nm likely doom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree though, BW is a great game and like doom, I played it a lot(not competitively though) and kept on coming back year after year, but, some parts of BW seem really outdated gameplay-wise when compared to SCII and this is why more are getting into SCII due to the lower APM requirements


Yeah lots of SC1 was "work", and I think that's the problem with it. SCII cut out the work and got straight to the best stuff. Still a great game for its time though.

BigFan my favorite game is Final Fantasy VII, Doom is 3 or 4 ( Diablo II LOD is tied kinda ).


----------



## Vuashke

i cant remember when he said it because someone sigged it on tl lol. he said it on tl though, i remember reading it. i dont think it was too long ago

it really isnt sc2's time, blizzard is just trying to push sc2 as an e-sport because they know it wouldnt develop as one on its own with brood war around. competition is fierce and without a doubt the players in the brood war scene are more skilled.

yeah, maybe sc2 will surpass brood war in popularity. it hasnt in korea, i dont know about the foreign scene because the korean scene is the one im interested in. but popularity is not what im talking about. im talking about junk like mbs, enormous control groups, armies that automatically arc + all the other junk that blizzard has implemented to make sc2 as noob friendly as possible

i really cant watch sc2 streams/vods, its just so incredibly boring compared to brood war. blobs running into eachother, english commentators, iron and zergbong winning gsls lol

im not bitter at sc2, its more like im bitter at blizzard for *certain* things theyve done. as a long time brood war fan, blizzard is dead to me (not because of sc2 - well not from the game anyway.)


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Norman Bum;12845933*
> If Sc1 had waypoints, larger-than-12 control groups, etc. Than I would agree.
> 
> But as it stands, Sc2 is so much more fun simply because of the fact that it does not require as much tedious APM.


you seriously think control groups of 30 is better than control groups of 12?

yes, thats the problem this ideal of fun. what you think of just 'work' may not be considered the same by others. but im talking about the competitive aspect of the game. when you remove the need to control large amounts of units in different hotkeys, macroing without a couple of keystrokes, the skill difference between players evaporates and the game stagnates into insufferable allins and build order wins/losses.

sc2 may be fun as a casual game, but it will never be able to match the competitiveness of brood war, short of blizzard seriously reconfiguring the game (which they wont do because blizzard doesnt give a **** about anything except $$$ anymore.) outdated gameplay-wise? go on, please tell me more. people are getting into sc2 more in the foreign community because they want to win something for once, not because the game is better


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846105*
> i cant remember when he said it because someone sigged it on tl lol. he said it on tl though, i remember reading it. i dont think it was too long ago
> 
> it really isnt sc2's time, blizzard is just trying to push sc2 as an e-sport because they know it wouldnt develop as one on its own with brood war around. competition is fierce and without a doubt the players in the brood war scene are more skilled.
> 
> yeah, maybe sc2 will surpass brood war in popularity. it hasnt in korea, i dont know about the foreign scene because the korean scene is the one im interested in. but popularity is not what im talking about. im talking about junk like mbs, enormous control groups, armies that automatically arc + all the other junk that blizzard has implemented to make sc2 as noob friendly as possible
> 
> i really cant watch sc2 streams/vods, its just so incredibly boring compared to brood war. blobs running into eachother, english commentators, iron and zergbong winning gsls lol
> 
> im not bitter at sc2, its more like im bitter at blizzard for *certain* things theyve done. as a long time brood war fan, blizzard is dead to me (not because of sc2 - well not from the game anyway.)


sorry, people aren't machine's like korean sc1 progamers.

sc2 w/o mbs, auto-mine, and large control groups would be fail on a mass-level. and blizzard is a business, and as a *BUSINESS* you have to cater to the masses, not the 0.0001% of people capable of playing @ 300+ apm for 20+ minutes for 12+ hours/day

although i think sc2 would be way more fun and interesting to watch @ the pro-level if control groups were narrowed down (say ~24/group) but but MBS and auto-mine has to stay.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm having a hard time understand why anyone gives a hoot. SC1's over, let it go.


----------



## Vuashke

believe me man, i know all about blizzard and their desire to do anything (including the destruction of e-sports) for money.

sc1 is not over. ill concede my point and believe that sc1 is over when sc2 games end up like this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMo3TsONT4[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12846312*
> I'm having a hard time understand why anyone gives a hoot. SC1's over, let it go.


Yeah pretty much this. It's over man, it's over. Honestly if you don't see the beauty in SCII than we aren't missing you anyway.

SCII is so much better







. Glad most people are moving on, even if korea is slowly moving on.

SCII, the future of E-sports!


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846374*
> Yeah pretty much this. It's over man, it's over. Honestly if you don't see the beauty in SCII than we aren't missing you anyway.
> 
> SCII is so much better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Glad most people are moving on, even if korea is slowly moving on.
> 
> SCII, the future of E-sports!


sc2 popularity in korea is getting lower and lower. its not even one of the top10 played games in pc cafes anymore. sc2 doesnt even have a teamleague ffs

if sc2 is the future of e-sports, then e-sports is moving backwards :X


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846105*
> i cant remember when he said it because someone sigged it on tl lol. he said it on tl though, i remember reading it. i dont think it was too long ago
> 
> *it really isnt sc2's time*, blizzard is just trying to push sc2 as an e-sport because they know it wouldnt develop as one on its own with brood war around. competition is fierce and without a doubt the players in the brood war scene are more skilled.
> 
> yeah, maybe sc2 will surpass brood war in popularity. it hasnt in korea, i dont know about the foreign scene because the korean scene is the one im interested in. but popularity is not what im talking about. im talking about junk like mbs, enormous control groups, armies that automatically arc + all the other junk that blizzard has implemented to make sc2 as noob friendly as possible
> 
> i really cant watch sc2 streams/vods, its just so incredibly boring compared to brood war. blobs running into eachother, english commentators, iron and zergbong winning gsls lol
> 
> im not bitter at sc2, its more like im bitter at blizzard for *certain* things theyve done. as a long time brood war fan, blizzard is dead to me (not because of sc2 - well not from the game anyway.)


Sorry but I disagree big time with that statement. BW had its time, we're talking about over 12 years now. It's like going back to doom or the original UT and saying that their time isn't up. Given they weren't e-sports, etc.... but my point is, BW stood the test of time and now its time for a change. I tried playing BW after playing SCII, I didn't mind the 12 groups, etc.... and tbh, it probably suits my style more because I don't use control groups much so I would get a big advantage, but, SCII has better gameplays aspects that make the game more fun and less about who can click faster, etc....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846427*
> sc2 popularity in korea is getting lower and lower. its not even one of the top10 played games in pc cafes anymore. sc2 doesnt even have a teamleague ffs
> 
> if sc2 is the future of e-sports, then e-sports is moving backwards :X


I dunno about korea, but, with more and more SCII tournaments around the world(NASL, GSL, TAWL, that IGN one, etc....) SCII will only grow more and most BW progamers will eventually leave BW and make the switch. Boxer did and so did a large handful already, I'm sure we'll see more once the time comes


----------



## yks

Trollers gonna Troll.

and look @ the year that bw game year. 2011. meaning it took 12 years to get at that level. sc2 is sub-1 year, things take time to develop.


----------



## Ruckol1

I am now streaming!







Let me know how it's quality/smoothness is. Any tips to increase my quality, and of course game play!

http://www.justin.tv/glorify


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12846491*
> Trollers gonna Troll.
> 
> and look @ the year that bw game year. 2011. meaning it took 12 years to get at that level. sc2 is sub-1 year, things take time to develop.


Actually, I think patch 1.07 which was the main patch that fixed a lot of issues was released in 2002 or so, but, I agree, BW has had a lot of time. SCII has only been around < 1 year and its constantly changing. Once they fix a couple more imba units and all exps come out, watch this game blossom









^^Don't play against any Ts and don't run your banes into his thors XD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846427*
> sc2 popularity in korea is getting lower and lower. its not even one of the top10 played games in pc cafes anymore. sc2 doesnt even have a teamleague ffs
> 
> if sc2 is the future of e-sports, then e-sports is moving backwards :X


You seem to think the future of e-sports is in Korea... this is where you are going wrong ( which is apparent if you look where all the money is forming now ).

You can't live in the past forever.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12845737*
> "*Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.*" Liquid`Jinro
> 
> lulul


Wonder what he meant by inferior. Inferior in what way? Skills required to play? fun? graphics? engine? unit?

I can say that when I was much more involved in SC1 back in middle school than I am with SC2 now. But I would never play SC1 over SC2 now. The graphics, engine, pathing is just unbearable once youve played II.


----------



## Vuashke

okay, what are the better gameplay aspects? what makes sc2 more competitive?

no, most brood war progamers wont switch. the progamers that WILL switch are either the b-team noobs that want to win (mvp, iron, zergbong, all of those guys) and the washed up stars that want to be at the top again (boxer, nada, july.)

more tournaments dont mean ****. yeah, you can win some money, but not everyone wins, and if you dont, youve got nothing. the teamleagues in brood war are far more advanced and players wont abandon a relatively secure life in exchange for sc2, especially with the way it is now (elimination of alot of competitive aspects)

to date, there hasnt been any top brood war players that have left and gone to sc2. the biggest brood war exit was Effort last year, who left to study, but recently rejoined hite entus and is back in training.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12846491*
> Trollers gonna Troll.
> 
> and look @ the year that bw game year. 2011. meaning it took 12 years to get at that level. sc2 is sub-1 year, things take time to develop.


thats true, but the development of sc1 has essentially been a piggy back in the development of sc2. players like nada and july have been at it for years, sc2 wont change much in another 12 years mate


----------



## DoomDash

Come back to me in 6 months and we can watch Flash and Jaedong play SCII together







.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846522*
> You seem to think the future of e-sports is in Korea... this is where you are going wrong ( which is apparent if you look where all the money is forming now ).
> 
> You can't live in the past forever.


korea is not the only place where e-sports can blossom. but korea is the only place where e-sports has been proven to thrive and grow and sustain itself. i wont wager any money on it being successful anywhere else unless the perceptions of progamers changes


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846587*
> Come back to me in 6 months and we can watch Flash and Jaedong play SCII together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


no way, diablo 3 will be out by then and that will be the new future of e-sports


----------



## DoomDash

Also I played at a competitive level in X17, and I played with a lot of pros in my SC1 days. I was even friends with Agent911 ( old school pro ) playing CS with him on his old CS server. I am currently ranked 750~ in North America for SCII, I can tell you from my own experience at both games at pretty high level ( not the highest obviously ) that SCII just as hard with out all the tedious as everyone is saying. I've showed you battle reports from me.. it's pretty obvious I took the game seriously >.<.

You need to get over all these BS reasons you hate SCII for. It's amazing... play it at high level and you'll know.

I love Diablo ( as I said in previous posts ), but SCII will be bigger for e-sports.. sorry.


----------



## Vuashke

no, you need to generate some reasons for why sc2 could even possibly be on the same level as brood war.

ive seen sc2 at high levels (obviously i have not played) and all i realised was that sc2 makes zergbong seem like less of a noob. im sorry, brood war players just do so much more than sc2 players, i cant downgrade my viewing experience like that :C

if diablo 3 can be marketed as an e-sport for even more money than sc2, then that is what going to happen. blizzard will not care about the competitiveness or the gameplay of sc2 if diablo 3 will make more money.


----------



## DoomDash

But it won't happen, quote me on it. I'll be there playing it day 1 like you... but it won't be bigger than SCII for money / e-sports. Maybe users though.

OK well maybe we can find a game where you have to click a puzzle 45 times to build an SCV, obviously way more going on in that game. I'm going to sell you the worst designed games of all time and you're going to tell me how good it is.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont see the esport scene in Diablo. What are players going to do besides out leveling each other? Duels are only for fun. Im not sure if D3 leveling system will work differently from D2.

How are people going to "compete" against each other?


----------



## Vuashke

no i wont be getting d3 lol. like many others, ive made a promise to myself to never purchase anything blizzard puts out again. this has nothing to do with my perceived quality of sc2 btw.

and ill find a game that eliminates the need for any semblance of skill or multitasking and any foothold for players of better skill to win games and you can buy that. obviously we are going in the right direction with a user-friendly, easy-to-peak noob game that has no future whatsoever


----------



## DoomDash

You obviously don't play SCII, because you have no idea how crazy hard it is. Sad.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12846769*
> I dont see the esport scene in Diablo. What are players going to do besides out leveling each other? Duels are only for fun. Im not sure if D3 leveling system will work differently from D2.
> 
> How are people going to "compete" against each other?


pump enough money into something, and people will play it. you are right, the competitiveness will be absolutely shocking and nobody would watch it, but that doesnt matter


----------



## Wulfgar

It better become the next big competitive RTS because Blizzard took all the fun out of the multiplayer aspect.

There's 0 innovation, no new races, the units from SP are missing, very few tactics to boot and overall it's Starcraft 1 in 3D with some new units replacing old ones (just for the sake of it) instead of complementing them.

I regret actually buying the game, got really hyped from the launch trailer.

Now I just hope Dota comes out so I get a reason to reinstall it.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846786*
> You obviously don't play SCII, because you have no idea how crazy hard it is. Sad.


yes, its so crazy hard that some of the worst possible sc1 players are dominating it


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wulfgar;12846805*
> It better become the next big competitive RTS because Blizzard took all the fun out of the multiplayer aspect.
> 
> There's 0 innovation, no new races, the units from SP are missing, very few tactics to boot and overall it's Starcraft 1 in 3D with some new units replacing old ones (just for the sake of it) instead of complementing them.
> 
> I regret actually buying the game, got really hyped from the launch trailer.
> 
> Now I just hope Dota comes out so I get a reason to reinstall it.


i personally was hoping for blizzard to design a new race and spend all those years testing and integrating it (with the help of the proscene) into brood war.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846814*
> yes, its so crazy hard that some of the worst possible sc1 players are dominating it


Not really. But I guess I shouldn't feed the trolls. If you don't like it go make a SC1 thread and be lonely. For those who are good at gaming, we love it







.


----------



## Allenssmart

i don't know how to play tvz anymore. someone give me a unit comp that counters muta ling bane infestor. fungal is so broken right now, its not funny. I'm not trolling. I seriously don't know how to play tvz anymore.


----------



## Vuashke

but sc1 isnt the only game i was talking about


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12846769*
> I dont see the esport scene in Diablo. What are players going to do besides out leveling each other? Duels are only for fun. Im not sure if D3 leveling system will work differently from D2.
> 
> How are people going to "compete" against each other?


Agree, there will likely be no competition in DIII.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wulfgar;12846805*
> It better become the next big competitive RTS because Blizzard took all the fun out of the multiplayer aspect.
> 
> There's 0 innovation, no new races, the units from SP are missing, very few tactics to boot and overall it's *Starcraft 1 in 3D with some new units replacing old ones (just for the sake of it)* instead of complementing them.
> 
> I regret actually buying the game, got really hyped from the launch trailer.
> 
> Now I just hope Dota comes out so I get a reason to reinstall it.


New races? Like what? Xelnaga? The game is balanced around 3 races, adding a 4th race would mess everything up. As much as I would love a 4th race, I think 3 is enough for SCII. Maybe there'll add some Xelnaga units in one of the exps to expand a bit on the story but we'll have to wait and see. They can't add the units from SP because there will be too many units that have overlapping roles. As for innovation, what were you expecting? Units with dual abilities like RA3? I mean most of the units have some ability and they had even more, but, they took them out because they were too OP and they wouldn't be able to balance the game with them. Maybe they'll bring back some?Not really sure though.
Also, dota has been out for the game for a while, called sotis. Look for it in the custom games tab








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846814*
> yes, its so crazy hard that some of the worst possible sc1 players are dominating it


Clicking faster doesn't indicate a better player


----------



## Vuashke

anyways, its time i go. goodbye fellow starcraft fans, i hope blizzard doesnt screw you guys around too much. who knows, maybe we will be in the same camp when sc3 rolls around?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846814*
> yes, its so crazy hard that some of the worst possible sc1 players are dominating it


Why are the SC1 legends getting dominated by lesser players then? Shouldnt SC2 be a piece of cake for them?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wulfgar;12846805*
> It better become the next big competitive RTS because Blizzard took all the fun out of the multiplayer aspect.
> 
> There's 0 innovation, *no new races, the units from SP are missing*, very few tactics to boot and overall it's Starcraft 1 in 3D with some new units replacing old ones (just for the sake of it) instead of complementing them.
> 
> I regret actually buying the game, got really hyped from the launch trailer.
> 
> Now I just hope Dota comes out so I get a reason to reinstall it.


Blizzard did that for good reasons


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846906*
> anyways, its time i go. goodbye fellow starcraft fans, i hope blizzard doesnt screw you guys around too much. who knows, maybe we will be in the same camp when sc3 rolls around?


lol, I've put in a ton of time into SCII and will likely be putting in a ton more, so, I'm not worried. I don't play SCII so that I can reign surpreme(don't have the time to practice either







), I play it so that I can try crazy strats and have some fun with friends


----------



## Ruckol1

Woo I feel like a e-pro streamer.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846864*
> but sc1 isnt the only game i was talking about


OK but you realize you're in a thread of people who love this game and we spend a lot of our time playing it because of that love. We think it's great, and we are helping make it a big e-sport. You come in here pretty much spitting in our faces. It's fine, it's your opinion.. but show us some respect man. I take this game seriously and I've been playing competitive gaming since 2000. This game is no different than when I won a PC playing Counter Strike, or lots of local SC1 tournaments, Tekken tournaments, ect.

We can accept your opinion but you don't need to be so insulting.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12846427*
> sc2 doesnt even have a teamleague


I fail to understand how the GSL Team League is not a team league.

On another note, I played a Bronze 4v4 about an hour ago that was an absolute riotous rout, in both directions. It ended up being a 1 on 1 base trade with 6 spectators.

I'd like someone to take a look at it and tell me what I personally did wrong, and what level player I would be if I hadn't crashed out of three of my placement matches. I'm Orange Zerg (played random), user OCNThrawn.

Replay Page


----------



## Darksoul844

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12846861*
> i don't know how to play tvz anymore. someone give me a unit comp that counters muta ling bane infestor. fungal is so broken right now, its not funny. I'm not trolling. I seriously don't know how to play tvz anymore.


counters for that, IMO is thors with MMM and have your thors in front to take the hits from banes and stim when lings/mutas come close


----------



## DoomDash

Thor's don't save you... but I do like to get armor upgrades for my Thor's, helps vs ling muta pretty well.


----------



## biaxident

SC2 Collectors edition still worth to pay $100? cuz mabe ill pick it up tomorrow


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darksoul844;12846969*
> counters for that, IMO is thors with MMM and have your thors in front to take the hits from banes and stim when lings/mutas come close


zergs dont a move banes...

they click ur rines. the banes willl always get to yo rines. u in silver? no offense


----------



## Darksoul844

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846997*
> Thor's don't save you... but I do like to get armor upgrades for my Thor's, helps vs ling muta pretty well.


reason i say thors is because to counter the splash for your MMM then they take out lings/mutas pretty easy.

there expensive but better then getting 10-20 marines taken out but a few banes.

and plus if there lucky they'll hit that those bunched up mutas with some splash


----------



## Darksoul844

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12847039*
> zergs dont a move banes...
> 
> they click ur rines. the banes willl always get to yo rines. u in silver? no offense


LOL idk you tell me http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1/XDxDarkSoul/

if they do then the thors will great shield against those exploding banes


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darksoul844;12847095*
> LOL idk you tell me http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1/XDxDarkSoul/
> 
> if they do then the thors will great shield against those exploding banes


sry but it says page not found lol... and yea if they do, the thors will soak up so much. but if they don't.......


----------



## Darksoul844

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12847115*
> sry but it says page not found lol... and yea if they do, the thors will soak up so much. but if they don't.......


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/867648/1/XDxDarkSoul/

it covered the numbers







but that's the point of the thors just to soak up the banes splash instead of losing 10-20 marines to few banes..


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Master Z's rarely target your thors.....


----------



## yks

Ruckol, did you set it up correctly?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12846861*
> i don't know how to play tvz anymore. someone give me a unit comp that counters muta ling bane infestor. fungal is so broken right now, its not funny. I'm not trolling. I seriously don't know how to play tvz anymore.


Kill him first.

Get some early hellions and get them into his base. I've been noticing a lot of zergs making a TON (well, 3 or 4 or so) of spinecrawlers for this exact reason though while they tech up to infestor muta/bling/sling/infestor, so I've started going for a hidden starport or two with an early banshee. Banshee vs. Queen 1 on 1 banshee wins, if he goes 14 pool /15 expo he will have 2 queens, 1 at each expo. Sneak up, start killing drones, switch to the queen, kill more drones once she dies, and fly away when the other queen arrives. Continue to be a huge ***hole with your banshees- delay tech buildings to get his queens to run around, kill drones, force him to put down sporecrawlers. You really don't need to build more than 3-4 banshees to do this.

Wall off your front with your barracks and factory (which are making hellions/marines constantly).

Watch what he does to counter your banshees- if he tries to tough it out and do his standard play and use mutas/more queens to kill banshees start using your hellions and add on battlecruisers and expand. Deny his expos- it is REALLY hard for a zerg to have a nice ball of mutas and still have gas left over for infestors on 2 base.

Just starting pressuring zerg earlier than he starts pressuring you and you will notice a definite change in the game- I still get a little panicked when I'm attacked first, though I know it means the other player is behind me in some aspect (tech or expos) in order to have units attacking. And playing against panicking people is easier than letting someone sit there executing their plan and having nothing else to think about.

This is what has been working for me in Gold, but it's the same basic formula as what most other terrans do. Doom has a really good replay I saw of his first 2 banshees arriving while the zerg was building constant slings/blings and trying to overwhelm him, the zerg player was unable to ever get the tech he wanted. Instead of sitting in your base with tanks, get out there and kill stuff.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12847259*
> Ruckol, did you set it up correctly?


I think I've got it working.. I'm going to do a test stream with it now. Only problem is I can't get my mic to work in skype with xsplit open, and I can't find anywhere in xsplit to not use it.

http://www.justin.tv/glorify


----------



## yks

keep your chat open


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12846944*
> OK but you realize you're in a thread of people who love this game and we spend a lot of our time playing it because of that love. We think it's great, and we are helping make it a big e-sport. You come in here pretty much spitting in our faces. It's fine, it's your opinion.. but show us some respect man. I take this game seriously and I've been playing competitive gaming since 2000. This game is no different than when I won a PC playing Counter Strike, or lots of local SC1 tournaments, Tekken tournaments, ect.
> 
> We can accept your opinion but you don't need to be so insulting.


two way street homie. claims of 'sc1 is over' are not only insulting, they're also completely falsified. why dont you and the rest of the goonsquad show me some respect?


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;12846917*
> Why are the SC1 legends getting dominated by lesser players then? Shouldnt SC2 be a piece of cake for them?
> 
> Blizzard did that for good reasons


when they were back playing broodwar, mvp ( as an example) was a better player than boxer and july and the like. why arent they dominating? july hasnt done anything spectacular since, what, 2005. he was a good player in his time, but this get faster, and july got older

actually mvp wasnt THAT bad of a player. even though he was pretty mediocre, he DID play for my favourite team


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12848619*
> why dont you and the rest of the goonsquad show me some respect?


okay troll.

gotta show respect to get respect. so you can't come in here and diss sc2 and expect us to respect you.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12849137*
> okay troll.
> 
> gotta show respect to get respect. so you can't come in here and diss sc2 and expect us to respect you.


im not asking for respect. that was in response to someone else asking _me_ to show respect. i couldnt care less what you people think of me


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12849228*
> Bleargh I haven't played in days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a Black Widow keyboard soon, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do any zergs have recommendations about lair timing? It confuses me.


I would think it's dependent on your strategy and reactionary play. For example, you've scouted the front or sac'd an overloard in terran base. You know he's going 1-1-1 opening and a tech lab has already been laid down. It's either going to be banshee or helions. If you know it's going to be cloak banshee you should start working toward the lair for overseer.

Other strats include going two base mutas vs terran or protoss. Going lair depends on how you're going to handle their one base timing pushes if they're coming, or how your economy is doing with the number of drones.


----------



## candy wrapper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;12849228*
> Bleargh I haven't played in days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a Black Widow keyboard soon, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do any zergs have recommendations about lair timing? It confuses me.


Heh I still need to add you, busy week, I have barely time to play. Do you main Zerg ?

Anyway my qeustion is if Zerg is perhaps the most "reactionary" so to speak out of all the races ? Also what is a good way of keeping track of the larvae injects timings ? I gues there is no trick to it but its just something that you need to keep an eye for ..?


----------



## bk641

yeah, toughest part about playing zerg is not injecting per se, (you need to be doing that ALL THE TIME) but when to pump drones and when to pump units. as you keep playing you'll develop a sense for when the protoss/terran is expanding/building workers and time your drone pumping at that time.

i don't play zerg a lot, but when i do, i hotkey all my hatcheries to one hotkey and double tap it (to move the camera back to one of them) and see the progress of the larva inject, and usually i can do this every 25ish seconds so my inject timings aren't too far off. don't take my word for it though, i play toss, and what works (relatively, i suck as zerg) for me may not for you.

also, i hear the backspace key cycles between your hatcheries?


----------



## yks

MVP just used 8 battle cruisers and won. wow.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12847325*
> Kill him first.
> 
> Get some early hellions and get them into his base. I've been noticing a lot of zergs making a TON (well, 3 or 4 or so) of spinecrawlers for this exact reason though while they tech up to infestor muta/bling/sling/infestor, so I've started going for a hidden starport or two with an early banshee. Banshee vs. Queen 1 on 1 banshee wins, if he goes 14 pool /15 expo he will have 2 queens, 1 at each expo. Sneak up, start killing drones, switch to the queen, kill more drones once she dies, and fly away when the other queen arrives. Continue to be a huge ***hole with your banshees- delay tech buildings to get his queens to run around, kill drones, force him to put down sporecrawlers. You really don't need to build more than 3-4 banshees to do this.
> -SNIP-
> This is what has been working for me in Gold, but it's the same basic formula as what most other terrans do. Doom has a really good replay I saw of his first 2 banshees arriving while the zerg was building constant slings/blings and trying to overwhelm him, the zerg player was unable to ever get the tech he wanted. Instead of sitting in your base with tanks, get out there and kill stuff.


Good advice, given I think going for BCs might be a bad idea against Z. If he knows that's your plan, corruptors will be made instantly which are great against BCs








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12848619*
> two way street homie. claims of 'sc1 is over' are not only insulting, they're also completely falsified. why dont you and the *rest of the goonsquad show me some respect?*










So let me get this straight: You come into an SCII thread(*NOTICE THE TITLE*), start going off about the game as being horrible and praising BW. Everyone on here agrees that BW is a great game but run its course and that SCII with its new gameplay elements make battles more interesting, more about strategic and less about APM and who can click faster which means that more people can get involved now. Then you keep insisting that you're correct about BW to the point a member or two call you a troll. After planning to leave, you keep on commenting and talking about BW and when a member asks that you respect our opinions of SCII just like we respect yours(notice no one actually insulted you other than the troll comments as I recall), you call us goons? rofl. I'm more disappointed that you find claims of "sc1 is over" insulting than anything else tbh. What's this world coming to when people are going nuts over some games? People in Japan, Libya, etc.... are dying as we speak and we are actually have a discussion about a game, sadly I took part in it








BTW, I wonder who started the insults first








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;12833053*
> im really surprised that sc2 leagues have been so popular considering how *inferior the players and competition are compared to sc*
> 
> but hurrr it has great graphics!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *candy wrapper;12849788*
> Heh I still need to add you, busy week, I have barely time to play. Do you main Zerg ?
> 
> Anyway my qeustion is if Zerg is perhaps the most "reactionary" so to speak out of all the races ? Also what is a good way of keeping track of the larvae injects timings ? I gues there is no trick to it but its just something that you need to keep an eye for ..?


Well, supposdly blizzard added a sound so that when inject is done, it'll sound off, same with the terran's cc functions and WG. Just practice with it in a game against AI. I hotkey all my hatcheries to 1, queens to 2 then press 2, c or v(forgot which one







) then click on the hatchery in the minimap. Rinse and repeat for the rest








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12850404*
> MVP just used 8 battle cruisers and won. wow.


Ah I see, now I know where doom got that bc strat from, not that it's hard to come up with


----------



## yks

I am so happy right now, I am so glad that I stayed up til 7am to watch the Team League finals.

*This team league finals was better than the entire GSL 5 put together*.

Seriously. Seriously.

Cella will now be selected as the Coach representing the Korean team in the GSL World Championship fighting the foreigners.

CELLA. CELLA. my favorite player in the entire sc2, representing Korea as the coach.


----------



## DoomDash

Corrupters need to not counter BC's so damn hard.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Corrupters need to not counter BC's so damn hard.


Do they? Even with armor on the BC..

Last night I was watching Steve and drewbie custom, steve had a ton of corrupters, drewbie had a few (5-6~) BC's with armor and they raped them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Do they? Even with armor on the BC..

Last night I was watching Steve and drewbie custom, steve had a ton of corrupters, drewbie had a few (5-6~) BC's with armor and they raped them.


Yeah they own them pretty hard. I can't even begin to tell you how ahead I was when I lost to the last Z I played.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah they own them pretty hard. I can't even begin to tell you how ahead I was when I lost to the last Z I played.


Maybe I stand a chance when we custom later tonight


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Maybe I stand a chance when we custom later tonight










My TvZ is kinda bad so everyone has a chance







.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Idra

I'm tired of PC gaming. First, I lost interest in PC FPS because of all of the hackers and lack of support from developers. Now, even Blizzard is against me.

Quote:



Greetings!

We have received the Starcraft II authentication Key registered to this account as part of a request to transfer ownership of the game.

As stated in our End User License Agreement, you may permanently transfer ownership of the game and all of its parts, and by doing so forfeit ownership of this account. By transferring ownership you also agree to remove the game client and materials from your home or personal computer.

This email is to confirm you permanently forfeit your ownership and all rights to use this account, and have transferred all the parts of this game (CD-ROM's, game manual and all original packaging) to a new owner. If you agree to this transfer the game will be permanently closed.

This account has been locked pending review of this transfer. Please reply to this email with either accept or decline in header on the subject line. If we do not hear from you within 7 days we will be permanently disabling this account.

Thank you for your assistance.

Regards,

Megan P.
Customer Services
Blizzard Entertainment
www.blizzard.com/support


Its been 7 months since I registered my CD key for Starcraft 2. Since then, I threw out the box. Apparently, someone somehow got my physical copy for the game and is challenging my ownership of the game. Blizzard apparently is considering the following siutation: I BROKE INTO A WAREHOUSE, STOLE THE CD KEY, RESEALED THE GAME, AND 7 MONTHS APPARENTLY, THE GAME WAS BOUGHT BY SOMEONE WHO NOW HAS A USED CD KEY.

But I don't enjoy console gaming; maybe I'll just stop gaming.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vuashke*


no, most brood war progamers wont switch. the progamers that WILL switch are either the b-team noobs that want to win (mvp, iron, zergbong, all of those guys) and the washed up stars that want to be at the top again (boxer, nada, july.)

....

to date, there hasnt been any top brood war players that have left and gone to sc2. the biggest brood war exit was Effort last year, who left to study, but recently rejoined hite entus and is back in training.


Aren't all the top progamers in BW on a contract? That means until their contract expires they can't switch...


----------



## DoomDash

Or get a 2nd copy!

I like console gaming too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Aren't all the top progamers in BW on a contract? That means until their contract expires they can't switch...


Bingo.


----------



## DoomDash

Sens NASL application video is pretty funny:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPy7kVu0cI[/ame]


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12853769*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sens NASL application video is pretty funny:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPy7kVu0cI


I don't understand what's happening


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know exactly, but thats team fou sitting down.


----------



## DoomDash

For those who missed GSL Team Leagues, including myself, I found this pretty good to catch up!!



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



tl;dr: just read the freaking thing. Every sc2 esports fan needs to know. It will become part of SC2 lore.
NOTE: Do yourself a favor and watch the games.
Two Roads Converge
OUR STORY UNFOLDS with two paths, one begun in the summer days of Brood War, and the other in these early days of Starcraft 2.
Slayers_Boxer, given the opportunity to create a team in Brood War, surrounds himself with a hand picked crowd of then unknown players. Most of them do well, but one -- iloveoov -- quickly stands out from the rest. Surpassing even his mentor, iloveoov becomes the first true bonjwa. The team that Boxer formed around him would become SKT, truly the greatest Brood War team there ever was.
In another time, and another place, CellaWerra of the Werra clan is playing Starcraft 2. He makes friends and gains many fans in the foreign audience. Known for his humor and his on-stream antics, he quickly makes a name for himself outside Korea with videos such as the 13 Gate build.
Two things happen.
Slayers_Boxer decides to leave Brood War and start a career in SC2 with the GSL. He makes his debut in GSL season 2, eventually beating NaDa to advance to the Round of 4. Now deep in the SC2 scene, Boxer needs a team. Intel answers his call, and sponsors not only a team, but also Boxer himself.
Meanwhile, the clan Werra is disbanded admist a firestorm of controversy as their coach is accused of sexual misconduct towards Werra members. And just like that, CellaWerra is just Cella, and needs a team.
Soon, Boxer puts out an open call for the new team he is creating with Intel's support, named Slayers. Cella applies, and is in. He becomes Slayers_Cella. And as Slayers_Cella, he still continues to amuse and entertain his foreign fans, including a certain rendition of a certain song.
First One's Just Practice
The members that Boxer gathers around himself this time around in the new Slayers team are composed, just like SKT, of relative unknowns. None of the star power or fame that a Nestea or MC possesses.
In February, GSL announces that it will be televising a one week team league. It features the top 8 teams in SC2 at that time in Korea: oGs, StarTale, Incredible Miracle (IM), Team SCV Life (TSL), For Our Utopia (fOu), ZeNex, Prime, and Slayers.
In an exciting series over a week (that you really should watch), IM manages to take the championship, on the strength of IMNestea, IMSeed and IMMvP.
Slayers, meanwhile, falls in the first round to ZeNex. Boxer himself came out as first pick for Slayers, and falls in the first game to ZeNex, one of the weaker teams.
But one player on Slayers stood out in that series: Slayers_ Jjob. In an almost reverse all kill, he went last in the Slayers lineup against ZeNex, and took out 3 of ZeNex's players.
An Emperor Falters
With a team around him and sponsors to support him, Boxer seems primed to focus on advancing in Code S. Unfortunately, in the March Code S season, he falls in the first round of 32 to SanZenith and Hyperdub. In the following Up and Down matches, Boxer loses again.
Boxer, the Emperor himself, is in Code A.
At the same moment that Boxer falls to Code A, however, another Slayers player -- Slayers_Alicia -- plays an extraordinary series against IMMvP, advancing to Code S while simultaneously helping to knock MvP down to Code A. This would not be the last time viewers would see Alicia.
This Time for Serious -- or, GSL Team League 2
GSL Team League 2 started with the same 8 team lineup. Of the 8 teams, the general ranking was:
Top Tier: oGs, IM, TSL, ST Lower Tier: Prime, ZeNex, fOu, Slayers
Most people put Slayers below even the lower tier, given their past performance in the team league and the obscurity of their players.
Viewers were introduced for the first time to the new vice-coach of team Slayers: Slayers_Cella. Carrying a notebook and constantly talking to his team members, Cella was perhaps the person that Slayers needed the most. A coach who could focus on strategy, not just at the player level, but at the team level. Someone who could see the flow of the team vs team battles, and make calls about who to send out.
Slayers's first opponent was oGs. Home to NaDa, TOP and 2 time GSL Champion MC, oGs were heavy favorites to win the team league. MC appeared to be unstoppable, and NaDa and TOP rounded out a bevy of top tier players.
The Birth of a Legend Killer
oGs vs Slayers starts off with matches between Min, InCa and TOP that leaves the score at 1-1. In response, Slayers sends out Ryung. In a series of 2 games, Ryung demonstrates a masterful understanding of TvT. At every step of each game, he was composed, calm, and knew exactly what to do and when to do it.
Down 3-1, oGs had nowhere to go. What could they do but send out oGsMC?
Hot off the highs of winning an unprecedented second GSL Code S championship, oGsMC was considered by most to be the single best SC2 player in the world at that point.
And he proves it, by defeating Ryung and Frozen.
The score is now 3-3. Cella gathers his notes.
Slayers sends out Slayers_MMA.
Who the hell is Slayers_MMA? Slayers_MMA is the new name of Slayers_Jjob, the player who nearly reverse all-killed ZeNex in the prior team league.
In a furious game of micro timings, MMA managed to defeat MC and create one of the great upsets of the season.
Slayers, considered the worst team of the previous team league, advances over oGs.
Entering the Octagon
Next up for Slayers is team StarTale. Trying to prove himself, Frozen opens up for Slayers. In a surprise move, StarTale decides to lead with JulyZerg.
Frozen fared no better against July than he did against MC the previous day. Down 0-1, who could Slayers send out against July, the Code S finalist?
Slayers_MMA.
In a quick game, MMA decisively defeats July. And every single StarTale player until STBomber. In an amazing comeback play, STBomber bridges a huge deficit to defeat MMA. The score was now 3-1, Slayres lead.
One more win for Slayers would end the series. And it happens. The TvT master Slayers_Ryung steps out once again, and defeats STBomber for the win.
Slayers is now in the finals.
Perchance to Dream
Team Incredible Miracle, with no less than two GSL champions in their roster, is widely considered to be the most consistent top tier team in Starcraft 2.
The finals is a best of 9. First team to five wins seals the deal.
Leading the charge for Slayers was Alicia. Not having been used at all during the second team league, he makes his debut with an astounding 3-0 run against IM with convincing wins.
Down, IM decides that they should take advantage of PvP and sends out YongHwa. In a quick back and forth, YongHwa takes the game from Alicia, making the score 3-1.
Comfortably ahead, Slayers decides to send out Slayers_Golden. Golden, formerly of fOu, is unable to surpass YongHwa. The score is now 3-2.
Falling once again back to the very solid and consistent Slayers_Ryung, Slayers manages to take a victory over YongHwa with some clutch TvP.
4-2, Slayers lead. IM was now against the wall. With Nestea out, that left only one player they could send.
January GSL champion IMMvp.
Patch 1.3 and the sweet, sweet sounds of Yamato cannons
Stepping back a couple hours, Blizzard released Patch 1.3 in Korea just before the finals of the team league. Patch 1.3 introduced many changes, including a speed buff to Battlecruisers.
Back in the team league finals, Ryung was playing great against IMMvP. Ryung was sieging at the right moments, expanding at the right timings, and generally avoiding any serious missteps in the complicated chess game that is TvT.
Then MVP broke all the rules. He made Battlecruises. MVP realized that with the new speed buff, Battlecruises were once again useful in the TvT endgame. MVP tore through Ryung's primarily ground and siege tank based army. With a few clutch Yamato cannon shots at a sizable amount of vikings that Ryung had managed to scrounge up, MVP won the game.
The score was now 4-3, Slayers lead.
Pause, Crash, Restart, Pause
After conferring, Cella and the rest of Slayers decides to send out GanZi next, in an effort to wear down MVP and to gain more information about his playstyle.
After a series of delays, the game begins only to have GanZi pause and then leave the game. Drama erupted. The IM coach could be seen shouting at a GomTV official.
In the rematch, MVP completely abandons the strategy he was starting to show in the first aborted MVP vs GanZi game, and goes for a quick 5 barracks all marine push. GanZi is caught flat footed, and loses.
And just like that, the Game Genie Terran equalizes the score.
4-4. Tied.
Legend vs Legend Killer
As Slayers has done when facing MC, Julyr oR ZeNex, out comes Slayers_MMA.
MMA decides to go for a marine heavy force based on decisive tempo based play. MVP, meanwhile, decides to play orthodox TvT, getting a fair number of siege tanks and marines.
The atmosphere is tense. Nerdchills are experienced. The game to decide it all between the two pillars of each respective team.
In the end, it came down to timing. In a moment so tense that Artosis and Tasteless were reduced to silence as they watched along with the audience, MMA takes advantage of a momentary opening. He stims and runs. Tanks explode, and MVP loses his army.
Soon thereafter, it flashes on the screen: gg.
MMA wins.
A legend killer. Over the course of a week, Slayers_MMA defeats oGsMC, STJulyZerg and IMMvp.
Cameras flash. SlayersBoxer, the Emperor, the founder of SKT, once again holds aloft a championship trophy.
The Emperor has returned.
With minions.
And Cella?
Cella is now coach of the Korean team for the World Championship games next week.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12854266*
> For those who missed GSL Team Leagues, including myself, I found this pretty good to catch up!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr: just read the freaking thing. Every sc2 esports fan needs to know. It will become part of SC2 lore.
> NOTE: Do yourself a favor and watch the games.
> Two Roads Converge
> OUR STORY UNFOLDS with two paths, one begun in the summer days of Brood War, and the other in these early days of Starcraft 2.
> Slayers_Boxer, given the opportunity to create a team in Brood War, surrounds himself with a hand picked crowd of then unknown players. Most of them do well, but one -- iloveoov -- quickly stands out from the rest. Surpassing even his mentor, iloveoov becomes the first true bonjwa. The team that Boxer formed around him would become SKT, truly the greatest Brood War team there ever was.
> In another time, and another place, CellaWerra of the Werra clan is playing Starcraft 2. He makes friends and gains many fans in the foreign audience. Known for his humor and his on-stream antics, he quickly makes a name for himself outside Korea with videos such as the 13 Gate build.
> Two things happen.
> Slayers_Boxer decides to leave Brood War and start a career in SC2 with the GSL. He makes his debut in GSL season 2, eventually beating NaDa to advance to the Round of 4. Now deep in the SC2 scene, Boxer needs a team. Intel answers his call, and sponsors not only a team, but also Boxer himself.
> Meanwhile, the clan Werra is disbanded admist a firestorm of controversy as their coach is accused of sexual misconduct towards Werra members. And just like that, CellaWerra is just Cella, and needs a team.
> Soon, Boxer puts out an open call for the new team he is creating with Intel's support, named Slayers. Cella applies, and is in. He becomes Slayers_Cella. And as Slayers_Cella, he still continues to amuse and entertain his foreign fans, including a certain rendition of a certain song.
> First One's Just Practice
> The members that Boxer gathers around himself this time around in the new Slayers team are composed, just like SKT, of relative unknowns. None of the star power or fame that a Nestea or MC possesses.
> In February, GSL announces that it will be televising a one week team league. It features the top 8 teams in SC2 at that time in Korea: oGs, StarTale, Incredible Miracle (IM), Team SCV Life (TSL), For Our Utopia (fOu), ZeNex, Prime, and Slayers.
> In an exciting series over a week (that you really should watch), IM manages to take the championship, on the strength of IMNestea, IMSeed and IMMvP.
> Slayers, meanwhile, falls in the first round to ZeNex. Boxer himself came out as first pick for Slayers, and falls in the first game to ZeNex, one of the weaker teams.
> But one player on Slayers stood out in that series: Slayers_ Jjob. In an almost reverse all kill, he went last in the Slayers lineup against ZeNex, and took out 3 of ZeNex's players.
> An Emperor Falters
> With a team around him and sponsors to support him, Boxer seems primed to focus on advancing in Code S. Unfortunately, in the March Code S season, he falls in the first round of 32 to SanZenith and Hyperdub. In the following Up and Down matches, Boxer loses again.
> Boxer, the Emperor himself, is in Code A.
> At the same moment that Boxer falls to Code A, however, another Slayers player -- Slayers_Alicia -- plays an extraordinary series against IMMvP, advancing to Code S while simultaneously helping to knock MvP down to Code A. This would not be the last time viewers would see Alicia.
> This Time for Serious -- or, GSL Team League 2
> GSL Team League 2 started with the same 8 team lineup. Of the 8 teams, the general ranking was:
> Top Tier: oGs, IM, TSL, ST Lower Tier: Prime, ZeNex, fOu, Slayers
> Most people put Slayers below even the lower tier, given their past performance in the team league and the obscurity of their players.
> Viewers were introduced for the first time to the new vice-coach of team Slayers: Slayers_Cella. Carrying a notebook and constantly talking to his team members, Cella was perhaps the person that Slayers needed the most. A coach who could focus on strategy, not just at the player level, but at the team level. Someone who could see the flow of the team vs team battles, and make calls about who to send out.
> Slayers's first opponent was oGs. Home to NaDa, TOP and 2 time GSL Champion MC, oGs were heavy favorites to win the team league. MC appeared to be unstoppable, and NaDa and TOP rounded out a bevy of top tier players.
> The Birth of a Legend Killer
> oGs vs Slayers starts off with matches between Min, InCa and TOP that leaves the score at 1-1. In response, Slayers sends out Ryung. In a series of 2 games, Ryung demonstrates a masterful understanding of TvT. At every step of each game, he was composed, calm, and knew exactly what to do and when to do it.
> Down 3-1, oGs had nowhere to go. What could they do but send out oGsMC?
> Hot off the highs of winning an unprecedented second GSL Code S championship, oGsMC was considered by most to be the single best SC2 player in the world at that point.
> And he proves it, by defeating Ryung and Frozen.
> The score is now 3-3. Cella gathers his notes.
> Slayers sends out Slayers_MMA.
> Who the hell is Slayers_MMA? Slayers_MMA is the new name of Slayers_Jjob, the player who nearly reverse all-killed ZeNex in the prior team league.
> In a furious game of micro timings, MMA managed to defeat MC and create one of the great upsets of the season.
> Slayers, considered the worst team of the previous team league, advances over oGs.
> Entering the Octagon
> Next up for Slayers is team StarTale. Trying to prove himself, Frozen opens up for Slayers. In a surprise move, StarTale decides to lead with JulyZerg.
> Frozen fared no better against July than he did against MC the previous day. Down 0-1, who could Slayers send out against July, the Code S finalist?
> Slayers_MMA.
> In a quick game, MMA decisively defeats July. And every single StarTale player until STBomber. In an amazing comeback play, STBomber bridges a huge deficit to defeat MMA. The score was now 3-1, Slayres lead.
> One more win for Slayers would end the series. And it happens. The TvT master Slayers_Ryung steps out once again, and defeats STBomber for the win.
> Slayers is now in the finals.
> Perchance to Dream
> Team Incredible Miracle, with no less than two GSL champions in their roster, is widely considered to be the most consistent top tier team in Starcraft 2.
> The finals is a best of 9. First team to five wins seals the deal.
> Leading the charge for Slayers was Alicia. Not having been used at all during the second team league, he makes his debut with an astounding 3-0 run against IM with convincing wins.
> Down, IM decides that they should take advantage of PvP and sends out YongHwa. In a quick back and forth, YongHwa takes the game from Alicia, making the score 3-1.
> Comfortably ahead, Slayers decides to send out Slayers_Golden. Golden, formerly of fOu, is unable to surpass YongHwa. The score is now 3-2.
> Falling once again back to the very solid and consistent Slayers_Ryung, Slayers manages to take a victory over YongHwa with some clutch TvP.
> 4-2, Slayers lead. IM was now against the wall. With Nestea out, that left only one player they could send.
> January GSL champion IMMvp.
> Patch 1.3 and the sweet, sweet sounds of Yamato cannons
> Stepping back a couple hours, Blizzard released Patch 1.3 in Korea just before the finals of the team league. Patch 1.3 introduced many changes, including a speed buff to Battlecruisers.
> Back in the team league finals, Ryung was playing great against IMMvP. Ryung was sieging at the right moments, expanding at the right timings, and generally avoiding any serious missteps in the complicated chess game that is TvT.
> Then MVP broke all the rules. He made Battlecruises. MVP realized that with the new speed buff, Battlecruises were once again useful in the TvT endgame. MVP tore through Ryung's primarily ground and siege tank based army. With a few clutch Yamato cannon shots at a sizable amount of vikings that Ryung had managed to scrounge up, MVP won the game.
> The score was now 4-3, Slayers lead.
> Pause, Crash, Restart, Pause
> After conferring, Cella and the rest of Slayers decides to send out GanZi next, in an effort to wear down MVP and to gain more information about his playstyle.
> After a series of delays, the game begins only to have GanZi pause and then leave the game. Drama erupted. The IM coach could be seen shouting at a GomTV official.
> In the rematch, MVP completely abandons the strategy he was starting to show in the first aborted MVP vs GanZi game, and goes for a quick 5 barracks all marine push. GanZi is caught flat footed, and loses.
> And just like that, the Game Genie Terran equalizes the score.
> 4-4. Tied.
> Legend vs Legend Killer
> As Slayers has done when facing MC, Julyr oR ZeNex, out comes Slayers_MMA.
> MMA decides to go for a marine heavy force based on decisive tempo based play. MVP, meanwhile, decides to play orthodox TvT, getting a fair number of siege tanks and marines.
> The atmosphere is tense. Nerdchills are experienced. The game to decide it all between the two pillars of each respective team.
> In the end, it came down to timing. In a moment so tense that Artosis and Tasteless were reduced to silence as they watched along with the audience, MMA takes advantage of a momentary opening. He stims and runs. Tanks explode, and MVP loses his army.
> Soon thereafter, it flashes on the screen: gg.
> MMA wins.
> A legend killer. Over the course of a week, Slayers_MMA defeats oGsMC, STJulyZerg and IMMvp.
> Cameras flash. SlayersBoxer, the Emperor, the founder of SKT, once again holds aloft a championship trophy.
> The Emperor has returned.
> With minions.
> And Cella?
> Cella is now coach of the Korean team for the World Championship games next week.


A nice summary there, got me all caught up. I think these team leagues are interesting and a change from the usual GSL way although I do wonder how they are going about this, as in how they are running the GSL and team leagues or are they alternating, etc....?


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12854266*
> For those who missed GSL Team Leagues, including myself, I found this pretty good to catch up!!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr: just read the freaking thing. Every sc2 esports fan needs to know. It will become part of SC2 lore.
> NOTE: Do yourself a favor and watch the games.
> Two Roads Converge
> OUR STORY UNFOLDS with two paths, one begun in the summer days of Brood War, and the other in these early days of Starcraft 2.
> Slayers_Boxer, given the opportunity to create a team in Brood War, surrounds himself with a hand picked crowd of then unknown players. Most of them do well, but one -- iloveoov -- quickly stands out from the rest. Surpassing even his mentor, iloveoov becomes the first true bonjwa. The team that Boxer formed around him would become SKT, truly the greatest Brood War team there ever was.
> In another time, and another place, CellaWerra of the Werra clan is playing Starcraft 2. He makes friends and gains many fans in the foreign audience. Known for his humor and his on-stream antics, he quickly makes a name for himself outside Korea with videos such as the 13 Gate build.
> Two things happen.
> Slayers_Boxer decides to leave Brood War and start a career in SC2 with the GSL. He makes his debut in GSL season 2, eventually beating NaDa to advance to the Round of 4. Now deep in the SC2 scene, Boxer needs a team. Intel answers his call, and sponsors not only a team, but also Boxer himself.
> Meanwhile, the clan Werra is disbanded admist a firestorm of controversy as their coach is accused of sexual misconduct towards Werra members. And just like that, CellaWerra is just Cella, and needs a team.
> Soon, Boxer puts out an open call for the new team he is creating with Intel's support, named Slayers. Cella applies, and is in. He becomes Slayers_Cella. And as Slayers_Cella, he still continues to amuse and entertain his foreign fans, including a certain rendition of a certain song.
> First One's Just Practice
> The members that Boxer gathers around himself this time around in the new Slayers team are composed, just like SKT, of relative unknowns. None of the star power or fame that a Nestea or MC possesses.
> In February, GSL announces that it will be televising a one week team league. It features the top 8 teams in SC2 at that time in Korea: oGs, StarTale, Incredible Miracle (IM), Team SCV Life (TSL), For Our Utopia (fOu), ZeNex, Prime, and Slayers.
> In an exciting series over a week (that you really should watch), IM manages to take the championship, on the strength of IMNestea, IMSeed and IMMvP.
> Slayers, meanwhile, falls in the first round to ZeNex. Boxer himself came out as first pick for Slayers, and falls in the first game to ZeNex, one of the weaker teams.
> But one player on Slayers stood out in that series: Slayers_ Jjob. In an almost reverse all kill, he went last in the Slayers lineup against ZeNex, and took out 3 of ZeNex's players.
> An Emperor Falters
> With a team around him and sponsors to support him, Boxer seems primed to focus on advancing in Code S. Unfortunately, in the March Code S season, he falls in the first round of 32 to SanZenith and Hyperdub. In the following Up and Down matches, Boxer loses again.
> Boxer, the Emperor himself, is in Code A.
> At the same moment that Boxer falls to Code A, however, another Slayers player -- Slayers_Alicia -- plays an extraordinary series against IMMvP, advancing to Code S while simultaneously helping to knock MvP down to Code A. This would not be the last time viewers would see Alicia.
> This Time for Serious -- or, GSL Team League 2
> GSL Team League 2 started with the same 8 team lineup. Of the 8 teams, the general ranking was:
> Top Tier: oGs, IM, TSL, ST Lower Tier: Prime, ZeNex, fOu, Slayers
> Most people put Slayers below even the lower tier, given their past performance in the team league and the obscurity of their players.
> Viewers were introduced for the first time to the new vice-coach of team Slayers: Slayers_Cella. Carrying a notebook and constantly talking to his team members, Cella was perhaps the person that Slayers needed the most. A coach who could focus on strategy, not just at the player level, but at the team level. Someone who could see the flow of the team vs team battles, and make calls about who to send out.
> Slayers's first opponent was oGs. Home to NaDa, TOP and 2 time GSL Champion MC, oGs were heavy favorites to win the team league. MC appeared to be unstoppable, and NaDa and TOP rounded out a bevy of top tier players.
> The Birth of a Legend Killer
> oGs vs Slayers starts off with matches between Min, InCa and TOP that leaves the score at 1-1. In response, Slayers sends out Ryung. In a series of 2 games, Ryung demonstrates a masterful understanding of TvT. At every step of each game, he was composed, calm, and knew exactly what to do and when to do it.
> Down 3-1, oGs had nowhere to go. What could they do but send out oGsMC?
> Hot off the highs of winning an unprecedented second GSL Code S championship, oGsMC was considered by most to be the single best SC2 player in the world at that point.
> And he proves it, by defeating Ryung and Frozen.
> The score is now 3-3. Cella gathers his notes.
> Slayers sends out Slayers_MMA.
> Who the hell is Slayers_MMA? Slayers_MMA is the new name of Slayers_Jjob, the player who nearly reverse all-killed ZeNex in the prior team league.
> In a furious game of micro timings, MMA managed to defeat MC and create one of the great upsets of the season.
> Slayers, considered the worst team of the previous team league, advances over oGs.
> Entering the Octagon
> Next up for Slayers is team StarTale. Trying to prove himself, Frozen opens up for Slayers. In a surprise move, StarTale decides to lead with JulyZerg.
> Frozen fared no better against July than he did against MC the previous day. Down 0-1, who could Slayers send out against July, the Code S finalist?
> Slayers_MMA.
> In a quick game, MMA decisively defeats July. And every single StarTale player until STBomber. In an amazing comeback play, STBomber bridges a huge deficit to defeat MMA. The score was now 3-1, Slayres lead.
> One more win for Slayers would end the series. And it happens. The TvT master Slayers_Ryung steps out once again, and defeats STBomber for the win.
> Slayers is now in the finals.
> Perchance to Dream
> Team Incredible Miracle, with no less than two GSL champions in their roster, is widely considered to be the most consistent top tier team in Starcraft 2.
> The finals is a best of 9. First team to five wins seals the deal.
> Leading the charge for Slayers was Alicia. Not having been used at all during the second team league, he makes his debut with an astounding 3-0 run against IM with convincing wins.
> Down, IM decides that they should take advantage of PvP and sends out YongHwa. In a quick back and forth, YongHwa takes the game from Alicia, making the score 3-1.
> Comfortably ahead, Slayers decides to send out Slayers_Golden. Golden, formerly of fOu, is unable to surpass YongHwa. The score is now 3-2.
> Falling once again back to the very solid and consistent Slayers_Ryung, Slayers manages to take a victory over YongHwa with some clutch TvP.
> 4-2, Slayers lead. IM was now against the wall. With Nestea out, that left only one player they could send.
> January GSL champion IMMvp.
> Patch 1.3 and the sweet, sweet sounds of Yamato cannons
> Stepping back a couple hours, Blizzard released Patch 1.3 in Korea just before the finals of the team league. Patch 1.3 introduced many changes, including a speed buff to Battlecruisers.
> Back in the team league finals, Ryung was playing great against IMMvP. Ryung was sieging at the right moments, expanding at the right timings, and generally avoiding any serious missteps in the complicated chess game that is TvT.
> Then MVP broke all the rules. He made Battlecruises. MVP realized that with the new speed buff, Battlecruises were once again useful in the TvT endgame. MVP tore through Ryung's primarily ground and siege tank based army. With a few clutch Yamato cannon shots at a sizable amount of vikings that Ryung had managed to scrounge up, MVP won the game.
> The score was now 4-3, Slayers lead.
> Pause, Crash, Restart, Pause
> After conferring, Cella and the rest of Slayers decides to send out GanZi next, in an effort to wear down MVP and to gain more information about his playstyle.
> After a series of delays, the game begins only to have GanZi pause and then leave the game. Drama erupted. The IM coach could be seen shouting at a GomTV official.
> In the rematch, MVP completely abandons the strategy he was starting to show in the first aborted MVP vs GanZi game, and goes for a quick 5 barracks all marine push. GanZi is caught flat footed, and loses.
> And just like that, the Game Genie Terran equalizes the score.
> 4-4. Tied.
> Legend vs Legend Killer
> As Slayers has done when facing MC, Julyr oR ZeNex, out comes Slayers_MMA.
> MMA decides to go for a marine heavy force based on decisive tempo based play. MVP, meanwhile, decides to play orthodox TvT, getting a fair number of siege tanks and marines.
> The atmosphere is tense. Nerdchills are experienced. The game to decide it all between the two pillars of each respective team.
> In the end, it came down to timing. In a moment so tense that Artosis and Tasteless were reduced to silence as they watched along with the audience, MMA takes advantage of a momentary opening. He stims and runs. Tanks explode, and MVP loses his army.
> Soon thereafter, it flashes on the screen: gg.
> MMA wins.
> A legend killer. Over the course of a week, Slayers_MMA defeats oGsMC, STJulyZerg and IMMvp.
> Cameras flash. SlayersBoxer, the Emperor, the founder of SKT, once again holds aloft a championship trophy.
> The Emperor has returned.
> With minions.
> And Cella?
> Cella is now coach of the Korean team for the World Championship games next week.


Nice Read.


----------



## yks

No serious. Go watch the finals of the team league.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12850967*
> I am so happy right now, I am so glad that I stayed up til 7am to watch the Team League finals.
> 
> *This team league finals was better than the entire GSL 5 put together*.
> 
> Seriously. Seriously.
> 
> Cella will now be selected as the Coach representing the Korean team in the GSL World Championship fighting the foreigners.
> 
> CELLA. CELLA. my favorite player in the entire sc2, representing Korea as the coach.


The bolded part is no exaggeration.

edit: from Doom's quote; "In a moment so tense that Artosis and Tasteless were reduced to silence"

Seriously, it got SOOO tense and SOO good, that Tastosis, the best duo in the world, couldn't even talk. MMA/MVP shut them up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12853841*
> I don't understand what's happening


You have to watch the classic bruce lee film to get what's going on. It's related to Japan/China relations during Japan occupation in China where the sign board meant a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPy7kVu0cI&feature=player_detailpage#t=123s

Someone just cut the cheese.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12856660*
> No serious. Go watch the finals of the team league.
> 
> The bolded part is no exaggeration.
> 
> edit: from Doom's quote; "In a moment so tense that Artosis and Tasteless were reduced to silence"
> 
> Seriously, it got SOOO tense and SOO good, that Tastosis, the best duo in the world, couldn't even talk. MMA/MVP shut them up.


Are the VOD's anywhere


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12857737*
> Are the VOD's anywhere


gomtv premium account







. I wish I had one.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12857874*
> gomtv premium account
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I wish I had one.


Nah I need to save my money to get better internets to stream better to become e-famous.

Then I'll get a gomtv premium account for free and all the trouble would have been worth it


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12858306*
> Nah I need to save my money to get better internets to stream better to become e-famous.
> 
> Then I'll get a gomtv premium account for free and all the trouble would have been worth it


lol, now if you said you needed to save money for tuition, I would've said that's a great idea


----------



## DoomDash

I was as low as 51% a month ago, now I'm back at 53% even!!
http://sc2ranks.com/us/312178/DoomDash


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12859371*
> I was as low as 51% a month ago, now I'm back at 53% even!!
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/312178/DoomDash


I'm sorry but that's pretty bad doom. Hit 70% like jedi and we can talk


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12859538*
> I'm sorry but that's pretty bad doom. Hit 70% like jedi and we can talk


Anyone can do 70% with a low amount of games played ( if they are at all decent )







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12859568*
> Anyone can do 70% with a low amount of games played ( if they are at all decent )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Excuses, excuses, that's all I hear


----------



## yks

i play 1 game and go 1-0, i'm 100%

i'm the best.


----------



## Ruckol1

I will be going LIVE around 12 eastern,







after the Leafs game. If they lose I will be in a bad mood though.

God I'm so popular


----------



## cory1234

http://www.own3d.tv/live/626/GosuGamers_SC2

My team xN playing vVv live casted by Geno and Vincere!

gogogogo


----------



## DoomDash

The commentators suck and sound like newbs







.


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

is sc2 worth it ive nerver played it or number 1?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ProdigaliNKGaming*


is sc2 worth it ive nerver played it or number 1?


Try out the demo and find out. If you like SP and you want MP with an endless skill cap, and literally endless amount of things to watch / read then you'll love it.

https://us.battle.net/account/sc2-demo.html

You can also ask around for a code to play a trail of multiplayer.

I love it







.


----------



## Ruckol1

Live! www.justin.tv/glorify


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ProdigaliNKGaming*


is sc2 worth it ive nerver played it or number 1?


I never ever played SC1 or BW and I enjoy SC2 quite a bit. If you like any sort of RPG/Strategy game, you should like the single-player campaign at the very least.

I had never even really played a RTS when I tried SC2, but found I enjoyed it.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=204773

RootQXC is now FXOqxc. And guess what? I played FXOAnthony in ladder and he recognized me from oc.net and said hello, even joined our channel.

Pretty cool to have played someone on a famous team now, and I even beat him ( barely ).

Anthony do you ever lurk our thread anymore bro? You are their admin?


----------



## Singledigit

just bought this game, need help lol. send me msg for RealID if you want to help. I am a great WoW player, not sure if it translates since its not an RTS


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Singledigit*


just bought this game, need help lol. send me msg for RealID if you want to help. I am a great WoW player, not sure if it translates since its not an RTS


Lots of new comers recently. I think you should check the real ID thread a lot posted in there recently ( find the link on the front page ).


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lots of new comers recently. I think you should check the real ID thread a lot posted in there recently ( find the link on the front page ).


Typically if you have the desire to improve, (past gaming experience, pro CoD4 for me), you will eventually get pretty good. I think I am about a platinum level now~. Just over a month ago I was bronze to the core, I've only been playing about two months too.

Doom, that's awesome! How did he recognize you from OCN? Just this mega-thread?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.


----------



## Singledigit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lots of new comers recently. I think you should check the real ID thread a lot posted in there recently ( find the link on the front page ).


where?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes.


I'm gonna go to bed, those back-to-back losses unmotivated me. The leagues are locked anyways so meh. Incase you weren't watching the stream It saved the videos, The last one long one are my back to back losses. I already went over the replay of the last one, I just got outmacroed by a better player. I need to work on knowing when to saturate bases, scout more, and apply pressure.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Singledigit*


where?


http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/78...-codes-15.html


----------



## DoomDash

Interview with the winning GSL Team:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=204803

Boxer switching races? Say it aint so.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What a shock.

He's prolly going to switch to protoss or zerg...

oh wait.

edit: i can't believe yellowtoblerone is taken in justin.tv as login.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What a shock.

He's prolly going to switch to protoss or zerg...

oh wait.

edit: i can't believe yellowtoblerone is taken in justin.tv as login.


My guess is Protoss.


----------



## rhed5

Standing offer of coaching to any oc'ers who want to get better. I haven't been playing much melee but I can still give tips. Feel free to msg me in the channel.


----------



## QuadDamage

^ ASL coach and How much is it?


----------



## BigFan

^^Likely free, as long as you sell your soul to him XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12861952*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204773
> 
> RootQXC is now FXOqxc. And guess what? I played FXOAnthony in ladder and he recognized me from Overclock.net and said hello, even joined our channel.
> 
> Pretty cool to have played someone on a famous team now, and I even beat him ( barely ).
> 
> Anthony do you ever lurk our thread anymore bro? You are their admin?


Anthony who?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What exactly is FXO and why did QXC change teams?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12870238*
> What exactly is FXO and why did QXC change teams?


Probably money related, and I'm sure he wasn't considered the "best" Terran on ROOT (because he wasn't







).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;12870616*
> Probably money related, and I'm sure he wasn't considered the "best" Terran on ROOT (because he wasn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


What are you saying, have you no regard to the consequences of that last statement about him not being the best on ROOT?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Standing offer of coaching to any oc'ers who want to get better. I haven't been playing much melee but I can still give tips. Feel free to msg me in the channel.


I'm on EU but I'd appreciate some tips on this game. It's ladder against 3k master. I lose despite being ahead for most of the game. I made several stupid micro mistakes, but I don't think that's what lost me the game.

The game is quite entertaining so I recommend everyone to watch it. Well played by terran in the late game







.


----------



## yks

Whether he's good or bad makes no difference, what matters is:

www.nasl.tv; Artosis is in NASL.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'm on EU but I'd appreciate some tips on this game. It's ladder against 3k master. I lose despite being ahead for most of the game. I made several stupid micro mistakes, but I don't think that's what lost me the game.

The game is quite entertaining so I recommend everyone to watch it. Well played by terran in the late game








.




ouch... my probe brothers..


----------



## Allenssmart

ROFL


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


ROFL


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


ROFL 










.......... What league? lol


----------



## ThumperSD

Got an email yesterday saying that my password to my SC2 account changed but I never changed it. When I got home I launched SC2 and it says my pw is invalid. Schit..


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Got an email yesterday saying that my password to my SC2 account changed but I never changed it. When I got home I launched SC2 and it says my pw is invalid. Schit..


Did you share your pw with anyone?







Contact Blizzard and be prepared to show them you own the account(show driver license to match name, street, etc....)


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'm on EU but I'd appreciate some tips on this game. It's ladder against 3k master. I lose despite being ahead for most of the game. I made several stupid micro mistakes, but I don't think that's what lost me the game.

The game is quite entertaining so I recommend everyone to watch it. Well played by terran in the late game







.




I watched that game on x2 through x8 from time to time.

From what I noticed immediately was your saturation, you're always super late to transfer probes and certain bases were over saturated. =[

Another was you didn't utilize all the buildings you chose to get, like you got double forge, got 1/1 then went 2/1 then there was like a 5+ minute lull where you didn't use your double forge. Your colossi production halted as well, =[

He was 1/1 and you were 3/3 but he EMP'd you and you engaged in bad positions w/o remaking any sentries =[ Remaking sentries is key.

I don't like HT's no more now, but if that's your taste, I can't really comment on that since it's preference.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


.......... What league? lol


idk lol. i found it somewhere.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm going to start streaming Tuesday if you guys want to tune in to a 3600~ Master Terran. Might not play any music, and I may talk about the game.


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12875109*
> I'm going to start streaming Tuesday if you guys want to tune in to a 3600~ Master Terran. Might not play any music, and I may talk about the game.


link? i want to watch n learn.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12875109*
> I'm going to start streaming Tuesday if you guys want to tune in to a 3600~ Master Terran. Might not play any music, and I may talk about the game.


Nice







Ive finally started laddering again the past few days, getting back into the groove of things.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12872508*
> I watched that game on x2 through x8 from time to time.
> 
> From what I noticed immediately was your saturation, you're always super late to transfer probes and certain bases were over saturated. =[
> 
> Another was you didn't utilize all the buildings you chose to get, like you got double forge, got 1/1 then went 2/1 then there was like a 5+ minute lull where you didn't use your double forge. Your colossi production halted as well, =[
> 
> He was 1/1 and you were 3/3 but he EMP'd you and you engaged in bad positions w/o remaking any sentries =[ Remaking sentries is key.
> 
> I don't like HT's no more now, but if that's your taste, I can't really comment on that since it's preference.


Thanks, notes taken. I tend to oversaturate quite often, so it's something I need to look out for. Then again I don't think I've lost this one because of macro as I had better econ and stronger army for most of the game.

I'm also not sure about remaking sentries thing. While they are crucial in early-mid game I'd think there are better things to spend the gas on late game. Plus I personally find it quite difficult to micro forcefields+blink+storm at the same time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ProdigaliNKGaming;12875502*
> link? i want to watch n learn.


I'll have the link probably today, yks going to help me setup my stream.

On a side note watch this:
http://www.justin.tv/xkonohaflash/b/282342493


----------



## yellowtoblerone

fudge... third game in naniwa vs ret, and I have to go to work.


----------



## DoomDash

TSL,


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



day of upsets.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12878727*
> Thanks, notes taken. I tend to oversaturate quite often, so it's something I need to look out for. Then again I don't think I've lost this one because of macro as I had better econ and stronger army for most of the game.
> 
> I'm also not sure about remaking sentries thing. While they are crucial in early-mid game I'd think there are better things to spend the gas on late game. Plus I personally find it quite difficult to micro forcefields+blink+storm at the same time.


I didn't specifically look @ the army number throughout the replay. Sentries, however, are needed early game for survival, but are even MORE crucial the higher the food count goes. Mainly for GS.

His +1 Marines = 7 dmg, Your +3 will take 3dmg @ health value and w/ GS that's 1 dmg per marine. @ high numbers like 20 marines thats 20 health damage rather than 60 every *.5* seconds, that's 40dmg compared to 120dmg every second. So imagine a 10second fight, 400:1200, 800dmg is huge.

GS+3Armor even punishes marauders even more since they attack so slow, +1 Rauders will do 5(17armored) so you can do the math there.

Then there's FF that cuts food depending on where you FF, imagine if you engage in a good spot and FF and cut his food in half. If you guys are both 'true-max' it'd be your 200 vs his 100. 100 food difference is like 16 colossi

*idk, I always look @ the math cause you can't let unit bias get in the way.*

Like how VDEK, Jediwin and I are telling Doom to make Medivacs, but he doesn't want to make medivacs, even though Medivacs are great mathematically, his bias makes him not make Medivacs.

For T, I try to keep 5/6 sentries with me all game.
For Z, I try to keep 8/9 sentries with me all game.
Remaking til I hit those numbers.


----------



## yks

WHOA, WHOA. Just checked out the TSL results. WHOA WHOA. WHAT WHAT.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12881833*
> I didn't specifically look @ the army number throughout the replay. Sentries, however, are needed early game for survival, but are even MORE crucial the higher the food count goes. Mainly for GS.
> 
> His +1 Marines = 7 dmg, Your +3 will take 3dmg @ health value and w/ GS that's 1 dmg per marine. @ high numbers like 20 marines thats 20 health damage rather than 60 every *.5* seconds, that's 40dmg compared to 120dmg every second. So imagine a 10second fight, 400:1200, 800dmg is huge.
> 
> GS+3Armor even punishes marauders even more since they attack so slow, +1 Rauders will do 5(17armored) so you can do the math there.
> 
> Then there's FF that cuts food depending on where you FF, imagine if you engage in a good spot and FF and cut his food in half. If you guys are both 'true-max' it'd be your 200 vs his 100. 100 food difference is like 16 colossi
> 
> *idk, I always look @ the math cause you can't let unit bias get in the way.*
> 
> Like how VDEK, Jediwin and I are telling Doom to make Medivacs, but he doesn't want to make medivacs, even though Medivacs are great mathematically, his bias makes him not make Medivacs.
> 
> For T, I try to keep 5/6 sentries with me all game.
> For Z, I try to keep 8/9 sentries with me all game.
> Remaking til I hit those numbers.


Surprisingly, I agree with this







I think looking at SCII mathematically is a good idea but 8/9 sentries, isn't that a bit much? Why not go for 5/6 which give you the ability to make a lot of FF provided energy is maxed and use the gas for another colossi or 2 VRs, etc....? I do have to say that I'm surprised doom doesn't use medivacs, those things can make or break a battle and are really vital. Think going against slings+blings then once MM dispatches of most of the slings, you can order the medivacs to pick them up right before the banes make impact, works like a charm


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I didn't specifically look @ the army number throughout the replay. Sentries, however, are needed early game for survival, but are even MORE crucial the higher the food count goes. Mainly for GS.

His +1 Marines = 7 dmg, Your +3 will take 3dmg @ health value and w/ GS that's 1 dmg per marine. @ high numbers like 20 marines thats 20 health damage rather than 60 every *.5* seconds, that's 40dmg compared to 120dmg every second. So imagine a 10second fight, 400:1200, 800dmg is huge.

GS+3Armor even punishes marauders even more since they attack so slow, +1 Rauders will do 5(17armored) so you can do the math there.

Then there's FF that cuts food depending on where you FF, imagine if you engage in a good spot and FF and cut his food in half. If you guys are both 'true-max' it'd be your 200 vs his 100. 100 food difference is like 16 colossi

*idk, I always look @ the math cause you can't let unit bias get in the way.*

Like how VDEK, Jediwin and I are telling Doom to make Medivacs, but he doesn't want to make medivacs, even though Medivacs are great mathematically, his bias makes him not make Medivacs.

For T, I try to keep 5/6 sentries with me all game.
For Z, I try to keep 8/9 sentries with me all game.
Remaking til I hit those numbers.


Yea I totally agree with PvZ but in PvT I'm not sure more than 2-3 sentries for GS are needed late game.

Unlike PvZ in PvT most of the time you're going to be zealot heavy and cutting his army in half is not so effective, because it blocks your zealots from the other half of his army, especially once you have charge. Also 600 gas is 6 immortals or 4 HTs which you could have had in your army instead of the sentries. Finally ghosts can turn your sentries into expensive probes with 1 emp.

I'll have to pay attention to it when watching PvT replays. Didn't notice much past-midgame sentry usage in today's TSL games.


----------



## yks

That's what I meant by unit bias: You'd rather spend the 600gas on "beefier" units than the the support unit.

All good, I used to be pretty Sentry-bias too and made too many stalkers in certain situations. But I've learned to re-make Sentries.

With the new EMP change, Ghosts only take 100energy now instead of everything. So just keep those senties max energy!

You should give it a try though.


----------



## DoomDash

Thiru add me? http://www.justin.tv/doomdash 3550~ Terran Master.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I think I'd like to learn to play protoss and zerg, what should I do so that I don't tank my rating (lolol gold you can't tank it much lower than that anyways lolol)? Custom games are great and all, but the quality of players varies so wildly I don't know whether I'm going to face a diamond player or someone who hasn't even played their 5 placement matches and it shows (actual experiences). Should I do it in 4v4 randoms just to get timings and build orders and mechanics down? Or will that defeat the purpose of learning how to play 1v1?

I like terran, I just think by playing the other races I would understand how to play against them in a more knowledgeable way- like how I now understand in TvT that if my opponent shows up at my base with cloaked banshees in 8 minutes, he probably doesn't have any tanks. I've done that rush to cloaked banshees myself and understand that you can't afford both, so if I hold the banshees off without losing too many SCVs, he'll then be pretty much screwed barring some ******ation on my front.

So should I 4v4/3v3 as random? Or what?


----------



## yks

You should play 1v1 Custom games against someone near your skill level or better, play them over 100+ times.


----------



## Skizzorz13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=204773

RootQXC is now FXOqxc. And guess what? I played FXOAnthony in ladder and he recognized me from Overclock.net and said hello, even joined our channel.

Pretty cool to have played someone on a famous team now, and I even beat him ( barely ).

Anthony do you ever lurk our thread anymore bro? You are their admin?


ya i am still mostly, but i was playing customs with them recently just started 2 weeks ago and they asked me if i would like to play so you can think of me as a future investment, i got a lot of learning to do as i've only been at it a couple weeks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skizzorz13*


ya i am still mostly, but i was playing customs with them recently just started 2 weeks ago and they asked me if i would like to play so you can think of me as a future investment, i got a lot of learning to do as i've only been at it a couple weeks.


oh, ok, so you're Anthony. Was wondering which of our OCNs it was


----------



## Skizzorz13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12890195*
> oh, ok, so you're Anthony. Was wondering which of our OCNs it was


yup i am a big lurker


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skizzorz13*


yup i am a big lurker










lol, it's np. I don't post here as much as I used to anymore, although, I'm still 2nd only to doom







Also, nice to see a fellow Canadian


----------



## Liamo Luo

I almost cried laughing at Crunchers smile


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skizzorz13*


ya i am still mostly, but i was playing customs with them recently just started 2 weeks ago and they asked me if i would like to play so you can think of me as a future investment, i got a lot of learning to do as i've only been at it a couple weeks.


Hey, I know you got pros to practice with now, but hit me up if you want TvP practice.


----------



## DoomDash

Also is anyone watching this crazy mondragon style ?


----------



## Ruckol1

Yeah- giving me ideas for ZvP


----------



## poroboszcz

55k viewers!


----------



## yks

hahahahaha what happened to idra.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12894698*


LoL, true.


----------



## dcloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12894698*


That is freaking hilarious! hahaha


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

i dont see his comment /wrist.


----------



## DoomDash

Where is Thiru to add my stream when you need him?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12896359*
> Where is Thiru to add my stream when you need him?


Probably on vacation


----------



## yks

Tonight: GSL World Team League

Korea: NesTea, MVP, MarineKing, anypro, San, July, NaDa, MC. (Coach: CELLA!)

World: Jinro, HuK, Sen, White-Ra, Dimaga, Moonglade, Morrow, TT1. (Coach: Artosis!)


----------



## DoomDash

First FPS vods of me:
http://www.justin.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=282472897
http://www.justin.tv/doomdash/b/282475433

Feel free to criticize.


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm awake.. was playing Shogun. I'm watching the first vid you posted too doom/.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199458

On now, hope you guys are watching.


----------



## sorage

How do you guys make an efficient attak and still build stuff and continue to tech.... 
Playin zerg


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sorage;12900754*
> How do you guys make an efficient attak and still build stuff and continue to tech....
> Playin zerg


Watch Day9 Newbie Tuesday #189 Losing to Early Pressure, #194 Drone Timing and #224 How to fight an Early Expand. *He goes over very important points about how you can't mount a major attack and expect to tech at the same time while expanding.* You just can't. I used to try, and would get stomped by my opponent when he showed up with a 4-gate or baneling bust because even though I had an expo, a lot of SCVs and a lot of unit structures, I hadn't been able to build out of the unit structures constantly- there isn't enough money. The same applies to your opponent though, so if you see him going for an early pressure build, if you hold out by going for tech or taking and holding an expo without losing too many drones you will likely win after that point because he had to spend all his money on units, which are now dead. The reverse is also true, if your terran or protoss opponent goes for an early expand, getting in there with some blings/slings or roaches will likely demolish them, or taking another expo and droning up is also a good choice.

You can try to attack constantly while teching and expanding, but an endless stream of 10 zerglings at a time will be destroyed by 4 marines in a bunker or the usual 1zeal/1stalker/1sentry mix. So figure out how you like to play against each race, aggressively with early units, or lots of expos with map control with lots of queens and spinecrawlers for a big mid-game push. Either is viable in any matchup, some playstyles are just more viable in certain matchups.

http://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv


----------



## sorage

Im not really a pressure player.. I always try an early 10 pool rush if it fail i expand and go mutas/lings... Maybe i should make more spore/spine to def me when i expand and give me time to get those mutas out


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sorage*


Im not really a pressure player.. I always try an early 10 pool rush if it fail i expand and go mutas/lings... Maybe i should make more spore/spine to def me when i expand and give me time to get those mutas out










Depends what race your playing against too, what units they're building.

As Z, we have to be the most responsive race. (In regards to our opponents build)

Sure you could fight MMM with blings and mutas, but that wont cut it against a deathball with a zillion stalkers and colossi.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12897897*
> First FPS vods of me:
> http://www.justin.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=282472897
> http://www.justin.tv/doomdash/b/282475433
> 
> Feel free to criticize.


Your APM is very high, I'm only silver level but I think you should wait to push out with medivac's you would do much better but it would be a later push. More micro would help as well

Sucks all your videos are of you losing, but I watched them.


----------



## DoomDash

Holy creep spread:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vf6e-iDECs&[/ame]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;12905072*
> Your APM is very high, I'm only silver level but I think you should wait to push out with medivac's you would do much better but it would be a later push. More micro would help as well
> 
> Sucks all your videos are of you losing, but I watched them.


I win with that timing 50% of my games though. I normally crush TvP.

Yeah I'm sure I'll have games of me winning soon enough.


----------



## DoomDash

WOW
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9E8ZdOdus&[/ame]


----------



## yks

Busy busy day tonight.

gotya get my stream listed on team liquid. CHECK.
gotta watch Back to the Future
gotta finish the team league
gotta get ready for new season tomorrow.

ahh carefree but busy.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12905156*
> Holy creep spread:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vf6e-iDECs&
> 
> I win with that timing 50% of my games though. I normally crush TvP.
> 
> Yeah I'm sure I'll have games of me winning soon enough.


Wow.. Cruncher should NOT of won that game


----------



## DoomDash

The current map pool is ******ed. Custom tailored to prevent Zerg QQ.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12907763*
> The current map pool is ******ed. Custom tailored to prevent Zerg QQ.


i see you agree with what i said now


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.justin.tv/doomdash/b/282524045

I hate TvZ so much.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12907313*
> Busy busy day tonight.
> 
> gotya get my stream listed on team liquid. CHECK.
> *gotta watch Back to the Future
> *gotta finish the team league
> gotta get ready for new season tomorrow.
> 
> ahh carefree but busy.


lol, so, I guess you decided to watch it because doom decided to stop talking to you until you do








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12907763*
> The current map pool is ******ed. Custom tailored to prevent Zerg QQ.


Sounds like QQ to me


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12909421*
> lol, so, I guess you decided to watch it because doom decided to stop talking to you until you do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like QQ to me


except ur silver


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12909421*
> 
> Sounds like QQ to me


Yes, Zerg QQ. Look at the maps, and it's pretty obvious who Blizzard is catering to.


----------



## Keatonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12909395*
> http://www.justin.tv/doomdash/b/282524045
> 
> I hate TvZ so much.


Yeah that was a rough match for ya. He was doing a really good job at keeping you off balance, which is pretty much the only way for Zerg to beat Terran. The only way to beat Zerg in that situation is fight fire with fire, do drops in his economy line and disrupt his money, keep HIM in his base till you can do a Terran death ball push he can't stop.

Good luck in future matches man, you got great Macro.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


except ur silver










rofl, and ur gold







Rankings don't matter to me because I'm not able to sink in time to be able to play more games and get promoted, etc....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes, Zerg QQ. Look at the maps, and it's pretty obvious who Blizzard is catering to.


Yes, the map are more Zerg centric but either way, you are still QQing


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Keatonus*


Good luck in future matches man, you got great Macro.


Thanks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, the map are more Zerg centric but either way, you are still QQing










Afraid not. I'm just pointing out how bad Zerg QQ made things.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Afraid not. I'm just pointing out how bad Zerg QQ made things.


Zerg QQ when SCII was released was justifiable. I'm not sure about now, but, I do believe that there are still some imbalances going on, but, I won't elaborate on that


----------



## Idra

I was one of the first people to point out how the new maps catered to zerg so much. Shattered Temple, especially, is extremely pro-zerg in that they have free map control because the only xel-naga tower (which sees most of the map) is in a wide open area.

But recently, having switched to playing all races, I think zerg deserves map advantages. Zerg vs Terran is a balanced match-up, in my opinion, but Zerg vs Protoss is just completely broken in favor of protoss.

But its stupid to discuss balance because most people just mindlessly root for the only race they play. If the people are competitive enough, they'll even insult you. They feel as though you're jeopardizing their "skills" by calling for nerfs to their race.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm considering changing races to Zerg.


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

Sentry>Idra lol op but i think pvz is broken on some maps.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12910958*
> I think I'm considering changing races to Zerg.


Say it aint true.... but hey if you cant beat them, join them


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Say it aint true.... but hey if you cant beat them, join them


I should split up my 2 accounts, this one T, huggle Z.


----------



## DoomDash

Look I'm already on the main page of SCC







( Streamers )

http://starcraftcentral.net/


----------



## Idra

The OCN channel has been dead recently. Then again, I haven't been on much since losing my main account (CD key dispute) and meeting with some *******ry.

a) No win is worthwhile because your opponent will make as many excuses as possible. 
b) Asking other people to play you is considered "aggression" and intention to show off.
c) There are elitists who feel superior to you in every aspect because of their rank and clan tag (if there is one).
d) Its only BM when you do it and not when they do it.
e) People claim victory in balance discussions by pointing out your "lack of knowledge."

The game doesn't interest me as much anymore.


----------



## cory1234

Dooooooom...log onnnnnnn.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Dooooooom...log onnnnnnn.


I am mentally beaten tonight, and I have a job interview tomorrow I have to get ready for Cory. I will be on a lot this week though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I was one of the first people to point out how the new maps catered to zerg so much. Shattered Temple, especially, is extremely pro-zerg in that they have free map control because the only xel-naga tower (which sees most of the map) is in a wide open area.

But recently, having switched to playing all races, I think zerg deserves map advantages. Zerg vs Terran is a balanced match-up, in my opinion, but Zerg vs Protoss is just completely broken in favor of protoss.

*But its stupid to discuss balance because most people just mindlessly root for the only race they play*. If the people are competitive enough, they'll even insult you. They feel as though you're jeopardizing their "skills" by calling for nerfs to their race.


That is a very good point, I'll admit that I was pro-Zerg when I played them exclusively, but, even then I tried to remain neutral. Since switching to random, any nerf/buff is good since I play all









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think I'm considering changing races to Zerg.


That's what Sovern did







What's next, yks going Zerg as well?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


The OCN channel has been dead recently. Then again, I haven't been on much since losing my main account (CD key dispute) and meeting with some *******ry.

a) No win is worthwhile because your opponent will make as many excuses as possible. 
b) Asking other people to play you is considered "aggression" and intention to show off.
c) There are elitists who feel superior to you in every aspect because of their rank and clan tag (if there is one).
d) Its only BM when you do it and not when they do it.
e) People claim victory in balance discussions by pointing out your "lack of knowledge."

The game doesn't interest me as much anymore.


It's sad really. People take this game way too seriously sometimes, like that one game where some guy BM'd my family because I nuked his whole army(have replay in sig). I mean seriously? You lost fair and square, just admit defeat and learn from your mistake! Same goes for those who feel superior to ours due to their ranking or the whole imbalance threads where someone's response to another is "You're bronze", etc....


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I am mentally beaten tonight, and I have a job interview tomorrow I have to get ready for Cory. I will be on a lot this week though.


If u build [stream] it they [we] will come [watch]


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That's what Sovern did







What's next, yks going Zerg as well?










HAH

winning isn't THAT important that I have to switch to imba zerg.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12910878*
> I was one of the first people to point out how the new maps catered to zerg so much. Shattered Temple, especially, is extremely pro-zerg in that they have free map control because the only xel-naga tower (which sees most of the map) is in a wide open area.


Raises a point -- I've always wondered why more terrans don't use bunkers to assert some control over the towers. It's not like bunkers and marines are expensive. Seems to me that having only the one tower on Shattered Temple in a central location could help Terran if they would fortify it. As a zerg player I would be super annoyed to see a planetary fortress and bunkers there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12914005*
> Raises a point -- I've always wondered why more terrans don't use bunkers to assert some control over the towers. It's not like bunkers and marines are expensive. Seems to me that having only the one tower on Shattered Temple in a central location could help Terran if they would fortify it. As a zerg player I would be super annoyed to see a planetary fortress and bunkers there.


lol


----------



## poroboszcz

I like current map pool. It's much better than it used to be.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12913148*
> HAH
> 
> winning isn't THAT important that I have to switch to imba zerg.


lol, I didn't think so, btw, I think you made a mistake, you must mean imba protoss, but, I'll let you off the hook








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12914005*
> Raises a point -- I've always wondered why more terrans don't use bunkers to assert some control over the towers. It's not like bunkers and marines are expensive. Seems to me that having only the one tower on Shattered Temple in a central location could help Terran if they would fortify it. As a zerg player I would be super annoyed to see a planetary fortress and bunkers there.


Originally, I was thinking you meant make a bunker with some marines which I was going to agree with but a PF+bunkers is going too far and a waste


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12915858*
> I like current map pool. It's much better than it used to be.


I like the current map pool besides that they are too Z friendly.

Though Typhon Peaks its pretty terrible.

Reset is live, 0-1 Master baby!!


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;12914005*
> Raises a point -- I've always wondered why more terrans don't use bunkers to assert some control over the towers. It's not like bunkers and marines are expensive. Seems to me that having only the one tower on Shattered Temple in a central location could help Terran if they would fortify it. As a zerg player I would be super annoyed to see a planetary fortress and bunkers there.


Don't mind me, I'm just putting down 11500min/150gas worth of stuff for free in the center of the map! You can't go around it, don't even try! Also Broodlords don't even work as a unit, so don't send them!


----------



## Idra

I don't know about you guys but I never have trouble against zerg. I offrace protoss against zerg players and I still win.

Here is a replay of me offracing protoss against VTPokebunny offracing zerg. It was actually a pretty nice match that went on for a while.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155859-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns#rd:dna

Also, I think Pokebunny is awesome in case this replay is seen as BM of any sort.


----------



## SilverPotato

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12917464*
> I don't know about you guys but I never have trouble against zerg. I offrace protoss against zerg players and I still win.
> 
> Here is a replay of me offracing protoss against VTPokebunny offracing zerg. It was actually a pretty nice match that went on for a while.
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155859-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns#rd:dna
> 
> Also, I think Pokebunny is awesome in case this replay is seen as BM of any sort.


Should I bother asking... real Idra?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilverPotato;12917499*
> Should I bother asking... real Idra?










What do you think the answer will be?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;12917464*
> I don't know about you guys but I never have trouble against zerg. I offrace protoss against zerg players and I still win.
> 
> Here is a replay of me offracing protoss against VTPokebunny offracing zerg. It was actually a pretty nice match that went on for a while.
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155859-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns#rd:dna
> 
> Also, I think Pokebunny is awesome in case this replay is seen as BM of any sort.


I'm pretty sure we've all established that Protoss is probably favored in PvZ, and off racing isn't that much of an idea of anything if both are off racing.

Zerg is not a problem for Protoss, but Terran at Master level +. It's just so much harder ( IMO, and every Terran I talked to who plays ladder at that level ) for Terran.


----------



## Ruckol1

Been moved up to plat







Next step, diamond


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Been moved up to plat







Next step, diamond


Congrats, keep it up


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats! Now it's BigFan's turn!


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigfan;12910578*
> rofl, and ur gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rankings don't matter to me because i'm not able to sink in time to be able to play more games and get promoted, etc....
> 
> Yes, the map are more zerg centric but either way, you are still qqing


rofl and i'm diamond.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Reset is live, 0-1 Master baby!!


How does it work? You're just placed in a division where everyone has 0 points?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Congrats! Now it's BigFan's turn!


Patience my young one, when the time is right









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


rofl and i'm diamond.


Last time you posted like 2 weeks ago to show us that replay before the lock, you were Gold, so, going off the info that I previously had









Did any of you guys realize that scII ranks actually has the replays now the games you've played?









Edit: nm, I think it just links it your other replay accounts, pretty cool either way


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Patience my young one, when the time is right


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












My response:


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Congrats, keep it up










Thanks buddy, 1-0.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Congrats! Now it's BigFan's turn!


Watch out doom I'm coming for you!


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

im so bad at this game...i have razer naga and im having trouble learning my keybinds. whats best way to learn?i also had to make a sticky note and stick it to my screen its says " MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO" lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Best way to learn is just practice man ( and watching Day9 and stuff ).

Also my friend bought me 2 hours with LZGamer :O.


----------



## Sainesk

dunno if it's been mentioned yet, ran across the Day9 app in the app store!
so awesome 







I really gotta get back into this game... silly new DOW2 distracted me for a while...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


dunno if it's been mentioned yet, ran across the Day9 app in the app store!
so awesome







I really gotta get back into this game... silly new DOW2 distracted me for a while...


You should get back, we still have some things to settle









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*Best way to learn is just practice man* ( and watching Day9 and stuff ).

Also my friend bought me 2 hours with LZGamer :O.


Bolded advice is 100% true, practice makes perfect. Not sure how much I agree about Day9 stuff. Who's LZGamer, never heard of him?


----------



## DoomDash

You aren't serious about that bigfan ?

He invented the 5 rax reaper rush and is on team EG.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You aren't serious about that bigfan ?

He invented the 5 rax reaper rush and is on team EG.


lol, am I ever serious in this thread?







The 5 rax reaper rush is such a gimmicky build, oops I did it again XD

We are talking about Day9 here right?









Edit: Excellent, still 2nd place posting in this thread @ 1655 posts XD
Edit2: Posted a replay of a PvsZ game I played a week earlier. Thought I'll post it since I think it was my first PvsZ win: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...erg-gutterhulk
I wouldn't say I had a deathball but I have to say that 2 gate stargate is a pretty powerful strat against Z. Bad mistake with my opponent's expos and bad mistake attacking his line but couldn't let him mass


----------



## Allenssmart

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=206208

how to split marines and banes and make it look like ur marineking

i've tried it, it works wayyyy better than the normal slice and pull unless your jinro or marineking. However, this has noted to be less effective against banelings AND zerglings because the marines will just shoot the zerglings and quickly get surrounded. Don't know how much less effective it is with zerglings but if it's banes only, it's pretty damn effective.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=206208

how to split marines and banes and make it look like ur marineking

i've tried it, it works wayyyy better than the normal slice and pull unless your jinro or marineking. However, this has noted to be less effective against banelings AND zerglings because the marines will just shoot the zerglings and quickly get surrounded. Don't know how much less effective it is with zerglings but if it's banes only, it's pretty damn effective.


Interesting find


----------



## yks

TLO back to permanent Terran.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12910578*
> rofl, and ur gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rankings don't matter to me because I'm not able to sink in time to be able to play more games and get promoted, etc....
> 
> Yes, the map are more Zerg centric but either way, you are still QQing


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12923904*
> TLO back to permanent Terran.


omg really? source? this is cool


----------



## DoomDash

Would like some input on how to have played this better.


----------



## BigFan

0-3(ZvsZ, PvsP, ZvsP) for the night, no Terrans at all :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12925944*
> 0-3(ZvsZ, PvsP, ZvsP) for the night, no Terrans at all :/


I crashed twice already. I think it has something to do with the sounds cause it happens if I'm spamming or clicking too fast. 6-7.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12925959*
> I crashed twice already. I think it has something to do with the sounds cause it happens if I'm spamming or clicking too fast. 6-7.


My ZvsZ and ZvsP games took forever to finish and I mean forever.
- In ZvsZ, I had 3 bases and we were trading armies at one point. Had I decided to go for BLs+roaches or something, I could've taken the game since he didn't go for air units, only had hydras(maybe 15 or so) for AA and roaches. - PvsP, guy places a pylon in my exp on scrap, I don't scout it because I'm too lazy, he 4 gates I believe and I can't hold it with 3 gates.
- ZvsP on delta, I repel the first attack with minor casulaties but focus on droning and his second or third attack(with 3 immortals for my roaches) takes out my exp later on. I end up going slings+roaches+mutas+5 corruptors or so against his zealots+stalkers+colossi, bad combo and even though I ended up taking a third, I couldn't last long enough to recover.
All in all, not a bad night, some epic macro games I would say but I should've probably been able to take the ZvsZ and possibly ZvsP. PvsP is another beast







BTW, yks has a 100% win ratio(1-0), doubt you can beat that


----------



## DoomDash

100% win rate and he still can't get a higher score than me, how sad







.


----------



## yks

I'll play more when I set my new desk up.


----------



## thenailedone

Guys, this thread is just to big to see if this has been posted, but head over to www.gomtv.net, a world team has just played a friendly tourney vs a Korean team and it was free to watch so the replays are also up and free... awesome games (also there are more games and tourney's going on, not sure if they are free, have not checked it out.

Enjoy


----------



## Ikthus

HuK is out


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## yks

the question is: what switch?


----------



## BigFan

U guys are still up?







Anyways I call cheats on that pic ^^

@doomdash rofl, I'm sure he'll try


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12928374*
> U guys are still up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways I call cheats on that pic ^^
> 
> @doomdash rofl, I'm sure he'll try


I'm sure he will try, and that's why he will fail.


----------



## yks

I don't need to try.

Do or do not. There is no try.

So all I gotta do is do it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12928967*
> I don't need to try.
> 
> Do or do not. There is no try.
> 
> So all I gotta do is do it.


oooooooh, sounds like a challenge


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah boys, since I'm on three monitors SC2 is a bit difficult. So I'm going to stop for a while and come back later.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12936067*
> Yeah boys, since I'm on three monitors SC2 is a bit difficult. So I'm going to stop for a while and come back later.


Why not just use one monitor then?


----------



## BigFan

Anyone up for a game?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12936906*
> Anyone up for a game?


Ladder.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12936917*
> Ladder.


I hate laddering now, only getting PvsP and PvsZ games, I want T game dammit!







Just lost another PvsP game on delta, opponent decided to tech up to dts relying on 2 cannons+zealots. I went for 3 gate added in a stargate then went stalkers+VRs. All he had to do was make 2 dts and then move them into my base, had no time to make a robobay for observer or a forge for cannons :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12937245*
> I hate laddering now, only getting PvsP and PvsZ games, I want T game dammit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just lost another PvsP game on delta, opponent decided to tech up to dts relying on 2 cannons+zealots. I went for 3 gate added in a stargate then went stalkers+VRs. All he had to do was make 2 dts and then move them into my base, had no time to make a robobay for observer or a forge for cannons :/


I'm telling you that I hear this a lot on SCC too. Terrans days are over.


----------



## Ruckol1

I've done horribly in my laddering thus far.. I'm 5-5 over the past two days..







no diamond any time soon.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12937279*
> I'm telling you that I hear this a lot on SCC too. Terrans days are over.


I just don't know what's up. I get T opponents a lot or at least used to pre-season 1 finish, but, in my past 4 games, 2 PvsP, PvsZ and ZvsZ. If that was ever to happen, I'll make the switch to Terran in a heartbeat. I like playing races that are considered harder, given I don't think Terran days are over or will be anytime soon. There are just less people manning the race because they started OP and are becoming more in line with the other races








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12937358*
> I've done horribly in my laddering thus far.. I'm 5-5 over the past two days..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no diamond any time soon.


Better than my 0-4(1 was my placement match)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12937551*
> I just don't know what's up. I get T opponents a lot or at least used to pre-season 1 finish, but, in my past 4 games, 2 PvsP, PvsZ and ZvsZ. If that was ever to happen, I'll make the switch to Terran in a heartbeat. I like playing races that are considered harder, given I don't think Terran days are over or will be anytime soon. There are just less people manning the race because they started OP and are becoming more in line with the other races


They were never OP vs P IMO. People just got better and stopped falling for a lot of the Terran gimmicks. Look at early 2 rax... nothing was changed to make that stop yet Zergs have that down really well now. That's why Terran is getting less popular, probably been over nerfed for some things people just needed time with ( reaper cough ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12937699*
> They were never OP vs P IMO. People just got better and stopped falling for a lot of the Terran gimmicks. Look at early 2 rax... nothing was changed to make that stop yet Zergs have that down really well now. That's why Terran is getting less popular, probably been over nerfed for some things people just needed time with ( reaper cough ).


Actually, in my level at least, I never had issues with 2 rax since I almost always get a crawler building once my pool is done so I can just move that down to my exp and with some zlings take out the 8 marines. Yes, they should've fixed the reaper better, given they are planning something for the reaper in the exp according to Dustin or whatever his name is but they should try to fix it for the game first


----------



## DoomDash

Well that doesn't help Terran now. Plus these damn maps being made for Zergs from the ground up... just terrible.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12937898*
> Well that doesn't help Terran now. Plus these damn maps being made for Zergs from the ground up... just terrible.


I know, kinda surprised and disappointed that they gave up on the reaper







. Kinda wish roaches are back to range 3 and maybe slings become what they were in BW or something. Playing the UP race was nice and made winning that much nicer


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12937245*
> I want T game dammit!


y u no online big?









i'll give you a T game if you're not busy, though with my break and all I might be claiming "worst player to post in this thread" title soon...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;12938321*
> y u no online big?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll give you a T game if you're not busy, though with my break and all I might be claiming "worst player to post in this thread" title soon...


I can take your T game and raise it to a P XD
Well, I was on for a while but after my ladder game, the internet went back to being slow so I decided that 0-1 for tonight is better than 0-2, etc....


----------



## AblueXKRS

So I play my S2 1v1 placement match against an obviously newb zerg... He tried a roach/ling rush which failed, then again, and once more. As soon as I had destroyed his 3rd push, he GGed and left. At that point I had not even left my base.

Sooooo anti-climactic.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12937358*
> I've done horribly in my laddering thus far.. I'm 5-5 over the past two days..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no diamond any time soon.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12938809*
> snip


Oooouuch.


----------



## Allenssmart

what league are you guys??? any mid diamond and above players want to be my practice partner? was 1700 diamond season 1


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm plat, hoping to go up. I need practice against toss right now, I'm Z.

EDIT: STREAMING www.justin.tv/glorify


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm in diamond atm but haven't laddered or played in over 2 weeks. If you want to play just let me know here and I'll hop on for some games.


----------



## DoomDash

Man I don't know what it is but I've been getting all inned a lot recently. More than usual.

Also SCII is so poorly designed, for whatever reason my SCII starts lagging randomly after a few games and even after restarting it, it continues. It's really lame.


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'm in diamond atm but haven't laddered or played in over 2 weeks. If you want to play just let me know here and I'll hop on for some games.


Yeah let's play!


----------



## jpaolof

guys how do I join the OCN channel?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jpaolof*


guys how do I join the OCN channel?


Bottom right hand corner, then type overclock.net in the channel box.


----------



## jpaolof

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Bottom right hand corner, then type overclock.net in the channel box.


Thanks Doom! been watchin' you replays lately =)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jpaolof*


Thanks Doom! been watchin' you replays lately =)


Cool, feel free to check out my stream too:

http://www.justin.tv/doomdash

Tonights games:

http://www.justin.tv/doomdash/b/282669281

lots all ins.. the tvz on talderm alter was good.


----------



## Ruckol1

I've done so poorly tonight, I'm 8-10 since the unlock.


----------



## DoomDash

So I was looking at my match history and I noticed that compared to these other Masters I know ( namely from Starcraftcentral.net ) I was getting way more points per game, and way less points per loss.

Example:

Me
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...es#filter=solo

MooMoo
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...es#filter=solo

I was wondering WHY this happened. So I went searching ( in case others have noticed their own friends having the same results ), and I actually found the answer. Who else other than the famous Excalibur_Z.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325683532

Very interesting... I suppose this makes sense especially if you think about how easy it would be for a new account to get top in their master division not having to start at a high MMR.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sooooo.... why exactly has Husky and HD stopped casting together?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Sooooo.... why exactly has Husky and HD stopped casting together?


Rumor has it they had a fight.... I was there when a lot of drama went on on their combined forums ( StarcraftArena ). They abondoned it with no explanation, and that's how Starcraftcentral.net came to be ( where I am very active ).


----------



## AblueXKRS

Apparently they had a falling out?

Can't find any info...


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Rumor has it they had a fight.... I was there when a lot of drama went on on their combined forums ( StarcraftArena ). They abondoned it with no explanation, and that's how Starcraftcentral.net came to be ( where I am very active ).


Starcraft central? I'll be visiting


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Starcraft central? I'll be visiting


It's super laid back, I enjoy it very much.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's super laid back, I enjoy it very much.


I just checked it out. I've been thinking about a SC2 community-ish site.. hmm


----------



## yks

Okay, new desk setup, finally. Just gotta clean my room now.

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## DoomDash

Have at you yks!


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Have at you yks!


Okay I should probably go to bed, it's almost 4 am I have two essays due tomorrow and one Friday.

That I haven't started


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
Holy crap I wish I had this Terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Has anyone been watching HD's world tour tournament?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Not yet, I'll check out them games sooner or later.

Hmm.. I wonder exactly what went on between husky and hd still. I'll check out that site too.


----------



## DoomDash

Kor vs World


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Poor Jinro

damn colossi


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12942802*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flMwj3NW_L4
> 
> Holy crap I wish I had this Terran.


lol, where's you been? I've posted on here before asking why they took out a lot of those cool terran features. Reapers with mines, thors doing splash damage with cannons, banshees doing splash, battlecrusiers having that laser gun that does splash, etc.... would've make for a much more awesome game but T would've been even more OP than before, hope they add them in the exp








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12943928*
> Kor vs World
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Jinro
> 
> damn colossi


----------



## yks

poor jinro =[ i feel sad.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12945391*
> poor jinro =[ i feel sad.


Did he get imba-toss'd too?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Did he get imba-toss'd too?


Yep.

Anyway my gosucoaching is going to happen on April 6th for 2 hours with LZGamer. I will try and stream it.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's this korean vs the world thing?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep.

Anyway my gosucoaching is going to happen on April 6th for 2 hours with LZGamer. I will try and stream it.


Who's LZGamer?


----------



## thenailedone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What's this korean vs the world thing?


www.gomtv.net... free to watch too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Who's LZGamer?










We already went over this....

Man patch 1.3 is like, all in city. I have never been all-inned more in my life.

Sad part is Protoss players all in's are so much stronger vs Terran now ( Zerg is the same ), because of the stim delay.

11-17







. Obviously it's at high MMR but still horrible.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

watchign some of that vod from world championship right now. Had no idea this was on gom.

I still have the itch to ladder... Maybe NA ladder's turning into Korean one base plays.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We already went over this....

Man patch 1.3 is like, all in city. I have never been all-inned more in my life.

Sad part is Protoss players all in's are so much stronger vs Terran now ( Zerg is the same ), because of the stim delay.

11-17







. Obviously it's at high MMR but still horrible.


Sad, just sad, I am disappointed doom. At this rate, yks will surpass you









You meant this about LZGamer?

BigFan: "lol, am I ever serious in this thread? The 5 rax reaper rush is such a gimmicky build, oops I did it again XD

We are talking about Day9 here right?"

So, I guess LzGamer was who you were referring to


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sad part is Protoss players all in's are so much stronger vs Terran now


whats this all inning thing? sending in workers along with your whole army or what?


----------



## ablearcher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


whats this all inning thing? sending in workers along with your whole army or what?


nah, that's boxer from SCBW









It's a whole bunch of make or break strats, like 6pooling, 4gate with no transition till 6 gate, powering 7rax, etc.

Like pulling the mineral line (except for terran, who can recover with mules), it leaves the allin attacker helpless if the attack fails.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


whats this all inning thing? sending in workers along with your whole army or what?


4 gate no expands, ling/bane busts, proxy gateways, ect.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


4 gate no expands, ling/bane busts, proxy gateways, ect.


Well, since, you are going to start playing Zerg soon, you don't need to worry about Protoss or Zerg allins as much


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
Girls Generation + Intel + 3D + SCII + Boxer! FTW.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No... no no... lame

so lame


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

what GG rules.


----------



## Allenssmart




----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*












l0l that's actually pretty funny.


----------



## DoomDash

Z base management is so easy... so is their micro.


----------



## Anti!!

-.- o.o -.- o.o

What? lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12953674*
> Z base management is so easy... so is their micro.


rofl, base management might be easy but their micro isn't as easy you think it is. Oops, I misclicked my banes and they ran into your tank line T_T


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12954217*
> rofl, base management might be easy but their micro isn't as easy you think it is. Oops, I misclicked my banes and they ran into your tank line T_T


How do you miss click your banes and run into siege tank lines? That's incredibly easy to prevent.

Zerg micro = Right click, not even 1A.

Just saying, I'm not saying they are easy to play, but they have easy micro and really easy base management because they need to.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I swear 75% of BigFan's posts are trolling in this thread. I approve.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12954331*
> I swear 75% of BigFan's posts are trolling in this thread. I approve.


Oh he's not trolling.


----------



## yks

He's just so bad, it looks like he's trolling. =p

Bad day of ladder, I'm like 3-10 =[


----------



## dropkickninja

Thought I would finally post in this thread since I've only been reading about the last 6000 posts lol.

I worked my way up to plat so far and I started out in bronze haha. I still suck big time though. I play protoss btw.

Nice to meet you guys!


----------



## slytown

Hey guys. I've just started playing the computer and laddering in the past couple of weeks and I keep getting rushed. I posted a link to a screenshot of one of my computer matches. Should I have lost to this rush? I did have stim and was researching right at this moment siege; Had 2 RAX and a Factory up with another RAX building. It's hard to see, but I had 4 marauders/9 marines; 4 marines were in a bunker at the top of my ramp that I was kiting to.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ivesceneenough

those 2 armies.... i would suspect the protoss would win just about every time....

conc shells would help... keep the zealots away, kite them.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12954691*
> He's just so bad, it looks like he's trolling. =p
> 
> Bad day of ladder, I'm like 3-10 =[


I've lost ******* 6 straight. 2 on stream with major pissed off bm


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dropkickninja;12954949*
> Thought I would finally post in this thread since I've only been reading about the last 6000 posts lol.
> 
> I worked my way up to plat so far and I started out in bronze haha. I still suck big time though. I play protoss btw.
> 
> Nice to meet you guys!


Welcome.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12955137*
> Welcome.


Hehe







The starcraft related videos/pics that you post here always give me a chuckle.

There's like no streams up right now because of MLG dallas i'm guessing.


----------



## DoomDash

I was streaming earlier. MLG doesn't start for quite a few more hours







.


----------



## dropkickninja

Yeah I know it hasn't started yet, but I guess players don't want to stream before a big tournament like that? There were very few featured streams on teamliquid today.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Ruckol1

When does MLG start? Where can it be watched


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12955370*
> When does MLG start? Where can it be watched


http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/16#event_33_event_schedule

Can also watch it on their site.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.razerzone.com/talon



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Happy April fools


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12955985*
> http://www.razerzone.com/talon


Would so buy a set.


----------



## DoomDash

Dang I can't believe I could have been using HQ Stream on gomtv this whole time ( for K v the World ).


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/console/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12954331*
> I swear 75% of BigFan's posts are trolling in this thread. I approve.


rofl, no I'm not trolling, most of my posts here are serious aside from some of the obvious jokes in some of them. Those who don't play Z can't comment on this issue because you haven't played them enough. I know for a fact you don't play Z(I believe its T, could be wrong) and offracing doesn't count btw.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12954691*
> He's just so bad, it looks like he's trolling. =p
> 
> Bad day of ladder, I'm like 3-10 =[


lol, says the guy who's on a 3-10 streak








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12954253*
> How do you miss click your banes and run into siege tank lines? That's incredibly easy to prevent.
> 
> Zerg micro = Right click, not even 1A.
> 
> Just saying, I'm not saying they are easy to play, but they have easy micro and really easy base management because they need to.


It's called making a mistake, everyone does it including the pros who play SCII 10 hours a day. I haven't hit my skill ceiling with Z so I'll likely see less of those, not that I was making a ton of mistakes in that aspect to begin with. My main point is Zerg isn't a race you can just A-move or just right click. If I do, my banes will walk into your thors, can't tell me you forgot that game I played against CalmStorm where my banes hit his marauders and not his marines







If I don't get a surround, you'll be able to kite my slings and if you have medivacs, maybe even pick up the remaining units with medivacs before the banes hit. I need to micro my mutas against your thors, etc.... I could think of a lot more examples of micro needed but I rather not waste my time








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;12954960*
> Hey guys. I've just started playing the computer and laddering in the past couple of weeks and I keep getting rushed. I posted a link to a screenshot of one of my computer matches. Should I have lost to this rush? I did have stim and was researching right at this moment siege; Had 2 RAX and a Factory up with another RAX building. It's hard to see, but I had 4 marauders/9 marines; 4 marines were in a bunker at the top of my ramp that I was kiting to.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Welcome, first page has some links for videos, etc.... that would help you out, take a look









Might as well post this here instead of a new post, decided to take a break from SCII for a couple of month to re-energize myself


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12957343*
> Might as well post this here instead of a new post, decided to take a break from SCII for a couple of month to re-energize myself


Dude, why do you even come here then? You already don't play this game, and yet you type all these long posts on theory. I can't possibly understand why you would need to be re-energized after playing a couple games. Must be that intense Zerg micro ( LOL ).

I just don't understand you.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12957343*
> 
> lol, says the guy who's on a 3-10 streak


=[ you didn't have to put salt on the wounds. i'm still hurting from earlier man.


----------



## KittensMewMew

BigFan, you must be trolling, because if you are in Bronze/Silver/Gold and are seriously complaining that there are balance and micro issues that affect you, you are being stupid. Plain and simple. If you're in those leagues (which I am as well) you have a lot more to be concerned about than whether infestors are OP or not, and whether Terran is the "ezmode" race.

Because you need to work on timings.
Because you need to work on base management.
Because you need to work on macro and just building some units constantly.
Because you need to work on simple strategies and pulling them off every time effectively.

Can I 5 rax all in? Yes, but probably not as effectively as someone in Master league because they're much better at the timing of each rax vs the amount of SCVs they have. Quit complaining about how hard it is to play as zerg and get better. I know I'm trying to.


----------



## poroboszcz

New patch preview:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325614706

I really like new maps and changes to phoenix.


----------



## Plex

I seriously lol'd about the auto-cast spawn larvae.


----------



## vdek

Zerg(And T/P) is really easy, if you're having trouble up to masters league, it's all issues with your mechanics not balance. Balance really only affects you at the masters league IMO.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Bunker

No change.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


New patch preview:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325614706

I really like new maps and changes to phoenix.



Quote:



Zerg players have begun to spread creep regularly during gameplay. To counter this, the speed of Zerg units has been decreased by 50%.










hydralisks moving in reverse ftw


----------



## Ruckol1

General
Players who do not type "GG" before quitting a game will receive an automatic loss for bad manners.

Players who are winning a match and type "GG" on behalf of their opponent will automatically surrender.

april fools?


----------



## poroboszcz

How does tha ladder system work now?

vdek 1-0 - 0 points
yks 3-11 16 points
Fishbulb 2-2 38 points

So vdek got no points for winning and yks and Fishbulb barely lost any points for losing?


----------



## KittensMewMew

1st game of the new season gives you no points, just places you into your rank. And if you face constant slightly favoured or favoured opponents and win with a 1:3 ratio your points will continue to rise, albeit slowly. Same as last season.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Due to lack of appreciation by players, the Mothership has been surgically altered to be sleeker and more visually appealing, and has been renamed to the Cougarship. The Cougarship will automatically gravitate toward enemy units that have been in play for 18-21 minutes and attempt to bring them back to the nearest friendly base.


LoL best by far


----------



## angrysasquatch

Quote:


> Flying buildings now crush any non-massive units and Protoss Force Fields when landing. This effect can destroy friendly units.


I may or may not have tried this before


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12963414*
> General
> Players who do not type "GG" before quitting a game will receive an automatic loss for bad manners.
> 
> Players who are winning a match and type "GG" on behalf of their opponent will automatically surrender.
> 
> april fools?


All of those ridiculous notes and this is the change that had you suspicious?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12963421*
> How does tha ladder system work now?
> 
> vdek 1-0 - 0 points
> yks 3-11 16 points
> Fishbulb 2-2 38 points
> 
> So vdek got no points for winning and yks and Fishbulb barely lost any points for losing?


http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=1337.0


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12957453*
> Dude, why do you even come here then? You already don't play this game, and yet you type all these long posts on theory. I can't possibly understand why you would need to be re-energized after playing a couple games. Must be that intense Zerg micro ( LOL ).
> 
> I just don't understand you.


rofl, check the date again








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;12957697*
> =[ you didn't have to put salt on the wounds. i'm still hurting from earlier man.


What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12958278*
> BigFan, you must be trolling, because if you are in Bronze/Silver/Gold and are seriously complaining that there are balance and micro issues that affect you, you are being stupid. Plain and simple. If you're in those leagues (which I am as well) you have a lot more to be concerned about than whether infestors are OP or not, and whether Terran is the "ezmode" race.
> 
> Because you need to work on timings.
> Because you need to work on base management.
> Because you need to work on macro and just building some units constantly.
> Because you need to work on simple strategies and pulling them off every time effectively.
> 
> Can I 5 rax all in? Yes, but probably not as effectively as someone in Master league because they're much better at the timing of each rax vs the amount of SCVs they have. Quit complaining about how hard it is to play as zerg and get better. I know I'm trying to.


rofl, I might have complained about balance back in Sept when I first started laddering but when I made the switch to random, I stopped because I started to care less and more about enjoying myself. Playing random means all changes will affect me, so, I don't get any nerfs or buffs either way because I could be manning Terran in one game, Zerg the next and Protoss the one after. Also, calling me stupid because I have an opinion? Last I checked this thread isn't yours and you aren't a mod by a long shot, so, please be respectful to others or I'll report that nice insult of yours








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;12962459*
> I seriously lol'd about the auto-cast spawn larvae.










Seriously though, some Z players were actually asking for that


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12964728*
> rofl, I might have complained about balance back in Sept when I first started laddering but when I made the switch to random, I stopped because I started to care less and more about enjoying myself. Playing random means all changes will affect me, so, I don't get any nerfs or buffs either way because I could be manning Terran in one game, Zerg the next and Protoss the one after. Also, calling me stupid because I have an opinion? Last I checked this thread isn't yours and you aren't a mod by a long shot, so, please be respectful to others or I'll report that nice insult of yours


I didn't mean it personally, there are just a lot of stupid players who complain "X race is hard because X reason, waaaaah" and in the same breath "don't mind me, I'm just supply blocking myself". I tried to word it right, I obviously failed, sorry. But you have complained in the past about zerg micro.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12957343*
> It's called making a mistake, everyone does it including the pros who play SCII 10 hours a day. I haven't hit my skill ceiling with Z so I'll likely see less of those, not that I was making a ton of mistakes in that aspect to begin with. My main point is Zerg isn't a race you can just A-move or just right click. If I do, my banes will walk into your thors, can't tell me you forgot that game I played against CalmStorm where my banes hit his marauders and not his marines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I don't get a surround, you'll be able to kite my slings and if you have medivacs, maybe even pick up the remaining units with medivacs before the banes hit. I need to micro my mutas against your thors, etc.... I could think of a lot more examples of micro needed but I rather not waste my time


This entire quote is just wrong. Why are you trying to micro with mutas against a Thor? The magic box technique is cool and all, but that amount of unit rearrangement is super time intensive with low APM, why bother? Just fly somewhere else. Why are you attacking the blobby Terran army with baneling/sling/muta at the front? You're supposed to avoid him and go around, there are very few maps where you can't, you have a mobile army, use it.

I could complain that splitting marines against banelings is hard. That having to pull all my marines back to my base because of those super-fast mutas (which fly away exactly when I stim) in my base is unfair. I could complain that the new Fungal Growth prevents my harass with both banshees and hellions. But I don't because if I got that drop of hellions there earlier, there wouldn't be an infestor. If I see a spire and and tons of gas harvesters, I had better build some turrets. And if I keep eating banelings, maybe marines are no longer the best choice in this game, time for something else.

Terran isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.
Protoss isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.
Zerg isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.

But at my level of play, just having a good sense of macro and making a simple all stalker, all marine, or all burrow roaches and A-clicking will put a significant dent into your opponent and likely finish him off unless he specifically tries to counter that build.

You obviously feel strongly about zerg, now that you've been playing random for awhile and understand the mechanics of all races why not play zerg exclusively? I find it's more rewarding to focus in on one race because I can see my improvement game to game. Having just 3 matchups to worry about lets you dial in on what's wrong and improve.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12965433*
> I didn't mean it personally, there are just a lot of stupid players who complain "X race is hard because X reason, waaaaah" and in the same breath "don't mind me, I'm just supply blocking myself". I tried to word it right, I obviously failed, sorry. But you have complained in the past about zerg micro.


I felt insulted by your comment but I think my post was rather harsh as well, so, I apologize for that








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12965433*
> This entire quote is just wrong. Why are you trying to micro with mutas against a Thor? The magic box technique is cool and all, but that amount of unit rearrangement is super time intensive with low APM, why bother? Just fly somewhere else. Why are you attacking the blobby Terran army with baneling/sling/muta at the front? You're supposed to avoid him and go around, there are very few maps where you can't, you have a mobile army, use it.
> 
> *I'm not sure what's considered low APM, mine is about 75 or so, should be enough to magic box, but, it's not that hard to magic box. Just select mutas, click in the center, wait for spread then move near thors. Not that bad actually
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> I could complain that splitting marines against banelings is hard. That having to pull all my marines back to my base because of those super-fast mutas (which fly away exactly when I stim) in my base is unfair. I could complain that the new Fungal Growth prevents my harass with both banshees and hellions. But I don't because if I got that drop of hellions there earlier, there wouldn't be an infestor. If I see a spire and and tons of gas harvesters, I had better build some turrets. And if I keep eating banelings, maybe marines are no longer the best choice in this game, time for something else.
> 
> Terran isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.
> Protoss isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.
> Zerg isn't a race you just A-click to victory above a diamond level of play.
> 
> But at my level of play, just having a good sense of macro and making a simple all stalker, all marine, or all burrow roaches and A-clicking will put a significant dent into your opponent and likely finish him off unless he specifically tries to counter that build.
> 
> You obviously feel strongly about zerg, now that you've been playing random for awhile and understand the mechanics of all races why not play zerg exclusively? I find it's more rewarding to focus in on one race because I can see my improvement game to game. Having just 3 matchups to worry about lets you dial in on what's wrong and improve.


While true indeed, my main point to doom was that no race including Zerg requires no micro like he mentioned. The thors, banes, etc.... are just examples of where micro is needed. Like Z, T needs to micro marines, drops, tanks, etc.... and P needs ff, blink stalkers, phenoixes for mutas, etc.... so all races require it. I can't say which specifically need more though, since, I don't have that much experience yet.
Yes, I do feel strongly about Zerg but it's not as much as it used to. I was much more of a Zerg guy(







) pre-Dec. Why not? Well, I like change. Going random means I get to try all the different races, their units, abilities, etc.... I love sentries, phenoixes, stalkers just like I love marines, drops and slings, roaches and mutas







I would probably improve faster if I stick to one race but I might as well just take my time and learn all. IMO, it makes for a more rounded player









Forgot to mention, it's also so that when I get good enough, I can challenge yks again and win him using all three races








/joke

Edit: While I'm sure some of you guys know this, I found it interesting:

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.3.1

Bug Fixes

Fixed an issue where, in some situations, players would not be notified they received an achievement.
Fixed an issue where the Leagues & Ladders showcase boxes were not updated correctly.
Fixed an issue where, under certain circumstances, the "Return to Game" button in the main menu would not function properly.
Fixed an issue where the new observer UI features would not function correctly on custom maps.

Didn't realize they actually released a small patch









Edit2: Just played this PvsT on meta, took the game. What do you guys think?
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/157718-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Should've probably taken a couple more bases but I was pretty confident at that point. Btw, did meta change or something? I could've swore I can build more structures in that vent :?


----------



## PixelFreakz

Is it just me or is the server being a B****... I got kicked like 3 times in 2 hours... and I normally dont get kicked ever... wtheck is going on..? anyone else getting problems?


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PixelFreakz*


Is it just me or is the server being a B****... I got kicked like 3 times in 2 hours... and I normally dont get kicked ever... wtheck is going on..? anyone else getting problems?


I'll see what's good.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I've been replaying the single-player campaign through brutal and the speedrun, and all I can say is that medics should be introduced into multi-player. They're soo balanced.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;12974756*
> I've been replaying the single-player campaign through brutal and the speedrun, and all I can say is that medics should be introduced into multi-player. They're soo balanced.


Their role overlaps with medivacs, likely won't be introduced anytime soon until medivacs go back to being dropships and I doubt Blizz will make that change


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;12974987*
> until medivacs go back to being dropships


NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

current medivac and vikings are the only reason I mainly play T









besides why can't we have multiple healing units if we must have medics... I could use some lols with pure medic+medivac rush...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;12975061*
> NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> current medivac and vikings are the only reason I mainly play T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besides why can't we have multiple healing units if we must have medics... I could use some lols with pure medic+medivac rush...


lol, it's like asking why don't we have wraiths, because their role is somewhat taken by banshees(even though they only attack ground). Why no firebat or vulture? Hellion is a mixture of both so no need to overlap, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

I actually think the thor overlaps terran for ground a little bit. I don't think its needed ( though good ).

I'd rather see the goliath back, wraiths over banshee, vultures over hellion.

But we already know this about me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12975538*
> I actually think the thor overlaps terran for ground a little bit. I don't think its needed ( though good ).
> 
> I'd rather see the goliath back, wraiths over banshee, vultures over hellion.
> 
> But we already know this about me.


lol, yes, we know all that, not that those changes are bad or anything, but, Blizzard wouldn't make such a dramatic move with SCII like SC.


----------



## Sainesk

was just looking at random stuff on the internet and wondered if something like this would be allowed/useful in competitions?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-heated-warm-gloves-for-men-color-assorted-pair-30366

all those players trying to keep their hands warm and all...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;12976380*
> was just looking at random stuff on the internet and wondered if something like this would be allowed/useful in competitions?
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-heated-warm-gloves-for-men-color-assorted-pair-30366
> 
> all those players trying to keep their hands warm and all...


Probably allowed, but, I dunno


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12975538*
> I actually think the thor overlaps terran for ground a little bit. I don't think its needed ( though good ).
> 
> I'd rather see the goliath back, wraiths over banshee, vultures over hellion.
> 
> But we already know this about me.


That we already know, that you swing both ways.

testing


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, poor Idra.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12979159*
> Lol, poor Idra.


what match? vid up?


----------



## Allenssmart

for all those saying terran op :

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

look at it after patch 1.30. it is now the LEAST PLAYED RACE, except in the scrub leagues (forgot what they were called)
now compare it to patch 1.20.

conclusion = toss op. nerf moar pl0x


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12979159*
> Lol, poor Idra.


This is my favorite moment in SCII so far.


----------



## yks

?

30% T, 32% Z, 34% P, 4% Random - sounds pretty accurate to me.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;12979159*
> Lol, poor Idra.


Best part about Idra saying that:










They were face to face, so HuK can have a **** eating grin. =D


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Where and what was this?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12979751*
> Where and what was this?


MLG Dallas brah.

Can't believe Terran is now the least played.. or actually I can.


----------



## __Pat__

Been gone too long if Terran is no longer OP! Can't wait to get my new (decent) connection in 2 weeks so I can start playing again!

I can finally play Terran without being called a n00b?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *__Pat__*


I can finally play Terran without being called a n00b?










Fat chance... people will always think this after months of being brainwashed.


----------



## DoomDash

MLG Dallas.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/1ec9/


----------



## Vermillion

Heres a recording of the Huk vs Idra shenanigans:
http://www.justin.tv/jabba_sp/b/282868451
Starts in the middle of game 2.


----------



## BigFan

Anyone up for a game? Can't sleep


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Anyone up for a game? Can't sleep










Sure.


----------



## DoomDash

140 apm as Z, not quite jediwin level yet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


140 apm as Z, not quite jediwin level yet.


140 is more than enough for any race, avg for me is 75 or so


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

nice, haven't been following MLG, too busy


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nice, haven't been following MLG, too busy










Don't worry the stream has been nothing short of a disaster.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Don't worry the stream has been nothing short of a disaster.










I guess that's good to know









Just had a PvsP on ST, took the game. While I think colossi are pretty powerful against T/Z, I find in PvsP, they aren't that great.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...oss-gutterhulk
Gotten better at actually expanding now, just need to work on making more workers







Interesting game for one reason, can anyone spot the similarities?









Edit: I should probably mention that I actually wanted to do a double attack, but, couldn't wait. It should be obvious at which point I would've wanted to do this


----------



## dioxholster

I dont know how to not rush, whenever the game lasts more than 15 minutes i lose. I cant decide what troops or vehicles to build and i dont use hotkeys so my micro sucks. How do i make hotkeys easier? The numkeys dont work i think and i dont like to use the numbers ontop. btw, whenever i enter general chat in the game lobby menu i see my real name instead of my nick, does it appear like that to everyone else? or just me?


----------



## __Pat__

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dioxholster*


I dont know how to not rush, whenever the game lasts more than 15 minutes i lose. I cant decide what troops or vehicles to build and i dont use hotkeys so my micro sucks. How do i make hotkeys easier? The numkeys dont work i think and i dont like to use the numbers ontop. btw, whenever i enter general chat in the game lobby menu i see my real name instead of my nick, does it appear like that to everyone else? or just me?


I'm like that when it comes to rushing! If my rush fails, there is no way I could win








Wish I have more time to train but with college and my (current) lousy connection it's nearly impossible >_>


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster;12982988*
> I dont know how to not rush, whenever the game lasts more than 15 minutes i lose. I cant decide what troops or vehicles to build and i dont use hotkeys so my micro sucks. How do i make hotkeys easier? The numkeys dont work i think and i dont like to use the numbers ontop. btw, whenever i enter general chat in the game lobby menu i see my real name instead of my nick, does it appear like that to everyone else? or just me?


It appears like that only to you







What do you mean by rush? You mean early timing push? Always have a plan in mind depending on your race. If you are P against T, you might want to go for colossi, so, you can start with 2-3 gates, get cc and get WG tech then move from there. Depending on your opponent, maybe you want to expand since 2 bases are much better to have for colossi due to gas constraints and you can expand as you do some harass.
Basically, adapt to your opponent's build and work on your macro. Get in the habit of using those control groups(numbers at top). It's pretty easy, you just press 1->e(to make probe), s(SCV), s>d(make drone) or z(zergling), etc.... If you get used to doing that, you'll be able to make units without having to go back to your base. What race do you play? Would make it easier to take about certain strats, etc...









BTW, interesting that you guys mention this. I'm pretty passive, so, I wait for my opponent to attack unless I'm confident that my attack will make some good damage and get me ahead economically


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster;12982988*
> I dont know how to not rush, whenever the game lasts more than 15 minutes i lose. I cant decide what troops or vehicles to build and i dont use hotkeys so my micro sucks. How do i make hotkeys easier? The numkeys dont work i think and i dont like to use the numbers ontop. btw, whenever i enter general chat in the game lobby menu i see my real name instead of my nick, does it appear like that to everyone else? or just me?


When you rush, you generally are going a build that doesn't have a next step, a 3rax can't have marines and marauders constantly made while you take an expansion, for example. So your problem may just be that your rush strategy doesn't leave you any options once it fails.

For example, look at the 6-pool, the staple of rushing. You HAVE to cut drones in order for it to work. So if it fails, you don't have many options, because your opponent will be able to respond, and you don't have a queen, you don't have an overlord for more than 10 supply of stuff, and you don't have many drones.

When you lose in a mirror match (TvT, ZvZ, PvP) after you rush, watch the replay. Your opponent should be able to JUST hold off your attack, and then he'll do something like expand, or start making tech units like colossi, banshees or mutas, and you'll be unable to support your rush build.

4-gate doesn't really have an exit plan, neither does the 3rax, neither does the baneling bust. If you can win every time before 10 minutes with any of those strategies, awesome. But the 4-gate runs out of steam after 2 cycles of warp-ins. The 3rax lets you make marines and marauders and SCVs and supply and nothing else. The baneling bust usually leads into mutas, but there is a weird 5 minute hole where all you have is queens, banelings and speedlings while you 1.take an expo 2.upgrade to Lair 3.build a spire etc because you can't afford anything else really.

My suggestion is rather than going for early game-ending aggression, poke at him with units that are cheap. The 2rax bunker rush gets complained about because it is essentially free, and has no economic downside- you were going to be building marines anyways, and bunkers can be salvaged, why not use that to your advantage? Your APM doesn't have to be super high to load and unload marines. Or take an early expand and defend and see how it feels.

As for hotkeys, force yourself to use them. When you go to click on a unit in a production building to start building it, instead mouse over it, look at the letter, and press that letter. You'll be slower at first, but faster in the long term. Using the number keys up top feels weird, but rather than starting from 1, use 1,2,3 for troops 4 for your base and 5,6,7 for all rax (gates), all factory(robo), and all starports(stargates?) respectively.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just in case someone's trying to watch MLG, there's an alternative, working stream here:

http://support.akamai.com/flash/index.html?autostart=true&scaleMode=FIT&url=rtmp%3A//cp121276.live.edgefcs.net/live/[email protected]


----------



## Vermillion

If the mlg stream is lagging Heres a Jtv stream that has a little lower bitrate:
http://www.justin.tv/waderadegs#/w/1039955552


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Ruckol1

pr00f imbatoss exists


----------



## tryceo

In a PvP situation where both parties are going 4 gate and the army composition for both are 2 zealots and 5 stalkers (hypothetically). Should I be using my stalkers to shoot the opposing zealots or should I micro and try to hit the stalkers?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo;12988516*
> In a PvP situation where both parties are going 4 gate and the army composition for both are 2 zealots and 5 stalkers (hypothetically). Should I be using my stalkers to shoot the opposing zealots or should I micro and try to hit the stalkers?


I usually get 1 zealot, one stalker, then 3 gates.

It depends on your position. Are you on the low ground attacking up? Or the high ground defending your ramp? Typically if you can attack their stalkers without taking damage from their zealots go for their stalkers. If your on the high ground it's probably better to attack their zealots coming up your ramp to try to get a decent lead on zealots.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss, so hot right now, Protoss.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12982167*


I don't like how the bracket is done. I'd like it if the loser champ is in one of the winner bracket slots rather than playing the champ.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *__Pat__;12980050*
> Been gone too long if Terran is no longer OP! Can't wait to get my new (decent) connection in 2 weeks so I can start playing again!
> 
> I can finally play Terran without being called a n00b?


Yeah, you can't play with crappy connection.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo;12988516*
> In a PvP situation where both parties are going 4 gate and the army composition for both are 2 zealots and 5 stalkers (hypothetically). Should I be using my stalkers to shoot the opposing zealots or should I micro and try to hit the stalkers?


From MC vs Anypro PvP, it's evident that you'd want your stalkers focusing on their weakest stalker first.


----------



## Vermillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomdash;12988801*
> protoss, so hot right now, protoss.


lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo;12988516*
> In a PvP situation where both parties are going 4 gate and the army composition for both are 2 zealots and 5 stalkers (hypothetically). Should I be using my stalkers to shoot the opposing zealots or should I micro and try to hit the stalkers?


In the first place you should try to focus fire stalkers one by one while trying to avoid being hit by zealots and microing back damaged ones.


----------



## Nw0rb

Hello all I built this sb system in jan to play sc2 and diablo3. I dont have many friends that play sc2 so i was wondering if anyone on here wanted to play for fun or do some league games my info is Nw0rb #761


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nw0rb;12989520*
> Hello all I built this sb system in jan to play sc2 and diablo3. I dont have many friends that play sc2 so i was wondering if anyone on here wanted to play for fun or do some league games my info is Nw0rb #761


Hey,
Join the overclock.net channel and ask there as well


----------



## Hank Scorpio

Hey all, been lurking the thread/channel and watching/playing as much as possible. Learned a ton so far, so thanks. Dumped in bronze league and grinding my way up as time permits, down to play league/custom/whatever

Gingerhulk 266

For the swarm!


----------



## DoomDash

I've seen you before!


----------



## Ruckol1

Doom I broke my losing streak! I just may have to stream. I went from losing 7 straight to winning 4 straight after watching MLG all weekend


----------



## DoomDash

http://sc2ranks.com/us/2702562/xcQuence


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhtj-tnztc[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAaybuSf1cg[/ame]


----------



## Ruckol1

I am streaming, www.justin.tv/glorify !


----------



## Lucas Lamer

What happened to Bonnell? He's so safe and sane now. I liked him better as an angry nut with a wicked wit.


----------



## DoomDash

I used reapers twice today with some success. They are good on two maps so far.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I used reapers twice today with some success. They are good on two maps so far.


Reapers have made a bit of a comeback. I think Terrans overreacted to the nerf. It's still a useful unit, and it's very easy to surprise people with them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Reapers have made a bit of a comeback. I think Terrans overreacted to the nerf. It's still a useful unit, and it's very easy to surprise people with them.


Yes and no. They are still pretty terrible, but because they aren't exactly standard you can get away with them a little bit. Also, they work really well on Tal'darim Altar and the new Shakuras if you get parallel spawns because of the map lay out having really good reaper rush paths. They are pretty useless against Zerg at least.


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin, tell me how I can improve:

http://www.justin.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=282958148

I did more turtle style.

*EDIT* LOL I forgot shield in a 42 minute game how sad... and a game where it would have made a huge difference.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208521

The few, the proud, the Terrans. Lots of Zergs commenting how easy ZvT is







.


----------



## Nw0rb

Hey does somone wanna play with me n tell me how bad i am and what i can do to fix it hahah naw im not horrible but i watch you guys on saved games and its amazing Sc2 Nw0rb #761


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12995204*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208521
> 
> The few, the proud, the Terrans. Lots of Zergs commenting how easy ZvT is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I actually have noticed it is MUCH easier than before doom. Mass sling/blings a-move. If they have siege tanks build some mutas harass the poop out of them then a-move your bsling ball

Edit: Doom I'm getting emails at 5 am telling me your going live lol. What is this


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I'm still up from last night. I'm off to bed now. lol.


----------



## RealEyes

jediwin and I played one and it was sick! Let me know when you want to again!


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## Ruckol1

Here is a replay of me playing imbatoss on ladder again.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/159235-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch#rd:dna

I'm not sure what my mistake was. Whatever it was it would have been near the beginning on his first push.. there was literally not much more I could have done. Imo it's a perfect example of how broken toss is atm.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;12997821*
> Here is a replay of me playing imbatoss on ladder again.
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/159235-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch#rd:dna
> 
> I'm not sure what my mistake was. Whatever it was it would have been near the beginning on his first push.. there was literally not much more I could have done. Imo it's a perfect example of how broken toss is atm.


You made many mistakes. Need more experience and game sense on timing and what you scouted. Also need to learn about how to react to 4gate. PvZ is one of the most balanced matchups but it's very map dependent. In that map it's almost impossible for toss to hold an expo in the meta game if Z pushes in different direction. B/c of the ridges muta harass on two base is very powerful vs tos that went two or three gate expand. You just gotta play more and try out different things.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12998198*
> You made many mistakes. Need more experience and game sense on timing and what you scouted. Also need to learn about how to react to 4gate. *PvZ is one of the most balanced matchups* but it's very map dependent. In that map it's almost impossible for toss to hold an expo in the meta game if Z pushes in different direction. B/c of the ridges muta harass on two base is very powerful vs tos that went two or three gate expand. You just gotta play more and try out different things.


wait what? please refrain from analysis.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It is definitely more balanced than PvT or TvZ since launch til now.


----------



## Konata Izumi

I stream sometimes if anyone is curious

http://www.justin.tv/nrgcirno

currently live


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12999594*
> It is definitely more balanced than PvT or TvZ since launch til now.


Here is another example. Looking at the graphs, my army in the first engagement was bigger, and had more upgrades. Still got raped. So imba rofl

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/159298-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Konata Izumi;12999844*
> I stream sometimes if anyone is curious
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/nrgcirno
> 
> currently live


I'm watching you bro!


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;12999970*
> I'm watching you bro!


I keep yelling at you to push out! WHY WON"T YOU PUSH OUT!


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Konata Izumi;12999844*
> I stream sometimes if anyone is curious
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/nrgcirno
> 
> currently live


send in your lings!


----------



## QuadDamage

gg wp


----------



## Allenssmart

IS IT JUST ME OR IS BNET DOWn? Please help!


----------



## Ruckol1

lol again. every zvz zvt is an easy win. toss = outplay opponent and not even close everytime


----------



## QuadDamage

got em bro


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Konata Izumi;12999844*
> I stream sometimes if anyone is curious
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/nrgcirno
> 
> currently live


Terran was working you bro?

More air defense next time? Tech to Hydras? You play well tho good games.

Bro out!


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.ign.com/ipl/tournament-announcement

  
 You Tube


----------



## potitoos

Holy crap! I just watched the trailer in that link you provided and let me just say, HOT DAMN! I've been hearing ppl talk about this game with crazy excitement, without actually knowing anything about it. But after watching that trailer, I'm gonna buy this game tomorrow.


----------



## DoomDash

You mean the trailer on the first page?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


lol again. every zvz zvt is an easy win. toss = outplay opponent and not even close everytime


I disagree, it's up to you to make sure you keep track of what the protoss is doing. If he's going mass zealots, roaches are the way, mass stalkers, mutas with slings, etc.... Idea is, apply pressure and keep scouting to determine your next move. Yes, P is harder to deal with than T but even then, you should be able to hit 50% win rate at the min









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You mean the trailer on the first page?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *potitoos*


Holy crap! I just watched the trailer in that link you provided and let me just say, HOT DAMN! I've been hearing ppl talk about this game with crazy excitement, without actually knowing anything about it. But after watching that trailer, I'm gonna buy this game tomorrow.


I believe he is, however, I think he just copied something that was written on the first couple of pages


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=209251


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Here is another example. Looking at the graphs, my army in the first engagement was bigger, and had more upgrades. Still got raped. So imba rofl

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...darim-altar-le


You do realize you got outplayed in both replays you posted today/yesterday? You never expanded to three bases at 10min, you never had more food than the toss in that match. Take a look at your drone count vs his probe count. 4 gate wasn't coming yet you built a roach war so early, not used, hydra den early, not used, and evo chamber so early, for a plus 1 and that was it, not used after. You just got out played. So, my conclusion atm is that you're either know what's going on and is just trolling me or you really feel that there's a specific balance issue here. If you do feel it's imba, then can you point out where and which way it's imba?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13006040*
> You do realize you got outplayed in both replays you posted today/yesterday? You never expanded to three bases at 10min, you never had more food than the toss in that match. Take a look at your drone count vs his probe count. 4 gate wasn't coming yet you built a roach war so early, not used, hydra den early, not used, and evo chamber so early, for a plus 1 and that was it, not used after. You just got out played. So, my conclusion atm is that you're either know what's going on and is just trolling me or you really feel that there's a specific balance issue here. If you do feel it's imba, then can you point out where and which way it's imba?


its like what they said about idra on the current sotg,

he puts himself down before the game even starts against protoss and just gets in this bad mindset. and mistakes become blind


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13005934*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209251


Oooh, where can we watch these?

(Sorry, I'm a scene nub)


----------



## DoomDash

New forum/site dedicated to e-sports / scii.

http://wellplayed.org/

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;13006804*
> Oooh, where can we watch these?
> 
> (Sorry, I'm a scene nub)


http://nasl.tv/


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13006815*
> New forum/site dedicated to e-sports / scii.
> 
> http://wellplayed.org/
> 
> http://nasl.tv/


Same premium ticket service as GomTV's GSL?


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209076

i lawled


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;13006901*
> Same premium ticket service as GomTV's GSL?


Yeah, free stream, HQ stream for season pass. Season pass is a little more pricey but you actually get more content, plus you're supporting someone starting in e-sports.


----------



## Lazorbeam

What's up guys... back from a 3-4 month break and now there's a master league? Is it just an extension of diamond to further segregate players by skill? How is race balance? How is protoss doing in tournament?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13008068*
> What's up guys... back from a 3-4 month break and now there's a master league? Is it just an extension of diamond to further segregate players by skill? How is race balance? How is protoss doing in tournament?


Master league is top 2% of all leagues. So it was kind of like mid-high Diamond and above from before.

Race balance is aight. I think that P has a slight edge over all atm, but it's most noticeable vs Zerg players.

Protoss has been placing on top for the past month or so in most big tournaments, but it looks like for Korea vs the World we finally see a Terran taking it.

Also coming soon is Grand Masters, which is for the top 200, which a few of us are going to try and get into. This will come out next Tuesday.

PS: Welcome back.

PPS: No more Amulet for Templars...


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13008091*
> Master league is top 2% of all leagues. So it was kind of like mid-high Diamond and above from before.
> 
> Race balance is aight. I think that P has a slight edge over all atm, but it's most noticeable vs Zerg players.
> 
> Protoss has been placing on top for the past month or so in most big tournaments, but it looks like for Korea vs the World we finally see a Terran taking it.
> 
> Also coming soon is Grand Masters, which is for the top 200, which a few of us are going to try and get into. This will come out next Tuesday.
> 
> PS: Welcome back.
> 
> PPS: No more Amulet for Templars...


Thanks for the welcome!

Yeah the amulet nerf is the first thing that stuck out to me in balance changes of 1.3. The "fix" to charge is really nice though, probably moreso than people think.

So are you saying that I have until next tuesday to grind up to the top of the master ladder and qualify for grandmaster?


----------



## DoomDash

You can get in at any time if your MMR is high enough. It's just like the top 200 list they post every week or every other week.

us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2452060

site is down but that's the FAQ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13006778*
> its like what they said about idra on the current sotg,
> 
> he puts himself down before the game even starts against protoss and just gets in this bad mindset. and mistakes become blind


Going with a bad mindset into a game will decrease your chance of winning the game








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13008068*
> What's up guys... back from a 3-4 month break and now there's a master league? Is it just an extension of diamond to further segregate players by skill? How is race balance? How is protoss doing in tournament?


Welcome back, was wondering how come you haven't commented in a while. As doom mentioned, master's league is top 2% of diamond. It seems to have changed a lot, I mean T seems to be played less now especially at the higher levels, can't comment on balance since I'm random now








Link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208521&currentpage=6 <--- doom posted


----------



## DoomDash

omg I see thiru browsing.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Naniwa won MLG Dallas and went 26-2 for the tournament. Lately there's usually one Protoss player who gets in "the zone" and just crushes everybody.

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/15140-naniwa-goes-26-2-to-win-mlg-dallas


----------



## DoomDash

You also might add that the 2 losses were to another Protoss







.

*EDIT*

Been loving reapers recently in TvP / TvT on Shak + Alter. Maybe more maps, we'll see.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyHDIntG_TU[/ame]


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13008657*
> Naniwa won MLG Dallas and went 26-2 for the tournament. Lately there's usually one Protoss player who gets in the "the zone" and just crushes everybody.
> 
> http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/15140-naniwa-goes-26-2-to-win-mlg-dallas


That's unbelievable. 26-2 at a pro level takes a godlike mindset. For comparison, even boxer was like 63% win ratio during his pro days (overall though).

How is Fruitdealer doing? He was the top guy when I left SC2 a few months ago.

Sorry for all the questions, I can't access anything SC2 related from work







.


----------



## DoomDash

FruitDealer not so relevant anymore. He got crushed pretty hard by Thorzane in TSL3.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13008607*
> omg I see thiru browsing.


He only lurks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13008607*
> omg I see thiru browsing.


rofl, same here, but, wonder why no posty








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13008662*
> You also might add that the 2 losses were to another Protoss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> Been loving reapers recently in TvP / TvT on Shak + Alter. Maybe more maps, we'll see.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyHDIntG_TU


hmm, I wonder how well they work in ST








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13008858*
> That's unbelievable. 26-2 at a pro level takes a godlike mindset. For comparison, even boxer was like 63% win ratio during his pro days (overall though).
> 
> How is Fruitdealer doing? He was the top guy when I left SC2 a few months ago.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, I can't access anything SC2 related from work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


From what I've last seen, he's becomes less relevant than before but can't comment how much considering I haven't been following the GSL recently


----------



## Ruckol1

Doom, you have the oddest sleep hours. It could be 3, 5, 8 am and I will still get emails - my phone buzzing constantly THAT DOOMDASH is GOING LIVE


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13009815*
> Doom, you have the oddest sleep hours. It could be 3, 5, 8 am and I will still get emails - my phone buzzing constantly THAT DOOMDASH is GOING LIVE


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone here getting a pass for NASL season 1? Also do you know who are the commentators going to be for these matches?


----------



## BigFan

^^ Not sure.

If anyone is interested in a game, I'm going to be online in 5min. Don't mind playing any race(hopefully no ZvsZ though







).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If it's not tastosis, I'm not getting a pass for NASL.

I log onto steam at 930am on my day off, see doom playing SC2.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*




















this made my day, thanks doom, and glad you changed back to your tank avatar, is my favorite


----------



## BigFan

Just won my first PvsZ of the new season, so, I've now won all three races using P in the last three games XD
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant
Opponent turtled hardcore early on, kinda surprising for a Z, but he was random, so, maybe it's style. Game gets interesting further on, used some units that aren't used much, worked great







Yes, I do realize that I forgot to research ...


----------



## Ruckol1

I'd like to share me finally beating a toss, as well as a 4 gate effectively. I'd like to thank yks and Hummingbird for their help yesterday, and apologize to the rest of you for dealing with my imbaclaim rage.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/159712-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I'd like to share me finally beating a toss, as well as a 4 gate effectively. I'd like to thank yks and Hummingbird for their help yesterday, and apologize to the rest of you for dealing with my imbaclaim rage.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-scrap-station


Apology *NOT* accepted







jk, glad to see you finally got the win you were looking for


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13009815*
> Doom, you have the oddest sleep hours. It could be 3, 5, 8 am and I will still get emails - my phone buzzing constantly THAT DOOMDASH is GOING LIVE


WHY ARENT YOU A FOLLOWER ON MY STREAM!?

=[[[[[[[ makes me frown face.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Anyone here getting a pass for NASL season 1? Also do you know who are the commentators going to be for these matches?


Yeah, I got one. The deal is better than GOM so far.

25$ for 3 months.

Compared to GOM's 10$/month + 5$/special event.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


WHY ARENT YOU A FOLLOWER ON MY STREAM!?

=[[[[[[[ makes me frown face.


Because you play imba P


----------



## yks

My 1080 stream quality is soooo good, I make Doom's stream look like he's still on 8-bit graphics.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


My 1080 stream quality is soooo good, I make Doom's stream look like he's still on 8-bit graphics.


Never doubted that(I haven't seen your stream either







).


----------



## Dimaggio1103

So new to posting here.

Just got back onto sc2 recently, and I had to play a match for season 2 I smashed my opponent and now im 43 bronze ***?!

Before I fluctuated between gold and bronze but at least when I was in bronze I was 1st place(not saying mutch i know) so why now the even farther setback?

Also as a side note you guys ever do a OCN turnny? might be fun.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13011054*
> My 1080 stream quality is soooo good, I make Doom's stream look like he's still on 8-bit graphics.


doom is on 8 bit graphics.


----------



## Ruckol1

Just lost a game to toss I really shouldn't have. Was on 4 bases he was on 2, I raped his army in our big fight, then he whips out dt's. gg took out my pool, then lair couldn't make overseers, stayed away from my spore crawlers.

all that then lose to 5 dt's rofl

moar imbatoss evidence if i may say so myself.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*


Also as a side note you guys ever do a OCN turnny? might be fun.


Welcome







Well, we used to have some meetings where we'll get some 1vs1s rolling and everyone else specs, but, haven't had some in a long time









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Just lost a game to toss I really shouldn't have. Was on 4 bases he was on 2, I raped his army in our big fight, then he whips out dt's. gg took out my pool, then lair couldn't make overseers, stayed away from my spore crawlers.

all that then lose to 5 dt's rofl

moar imbatoss evidence if i may say so myself.


Nope, that's just being smart and having good mechanics and understanding of the game. He knew that you won't have overseers and then went for the vital structure that would allow you to build other structures(poo). Then he went for your the other important structure, your lair and made sure to avoid your spores(none near lair?







). As annoying as it can be to lose to dts, it happens. Just gotta brush it off and make sure to scout his dark shrine next time if you haven't. Always have some overseers as well, preferably after your base and near entrance, would prevent this kinda issue


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Nope, that's just being smart and having good mechanics and understanding of the game. He knew that you won't have overseers and then went for the vital structure that would allow you to build other structures(poo). Then he went for your the other important structure, your lair and made sure to avoid your spores(none near lair?







). As annoying as it can be to lose to dts, it happens. Just gotta brush it off and make sure to scout his dark shrine next time if you haven't. Always have some overseers as well, preferably after your base and near entrance, would prevent this kinda issue










It wasn't scouted because he immediately put it up as soon as realized he was going to lose the initial engagement I think.

There was a spore in my mineral line, but my army was pushing his base and by the time I rallied my new units to go to my main he took down the spore crawler, and was working on my lair. As soon as I clicked on the closest OL to morph to overseer my lair went down. And I had another one with my main army pushing that was trying to make it back but by then it was too late the damage had been done. After that took out warren, hydra den, pool, gg.

5. yes, 5 units cost me a game I roflstomped a toss in.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


It wasn't scouted because he immediately put it up as soon as realized he was going to lose the initial engagement I think.

There was a spore in my mineral line, but my army was pushing his base and by the time I rallied my new units to go to my main he took down the spore crawler, and was working on my lair. As soon as I clicked on the closest OL to morph to overseer my lair went down. And I had another one with my main army pushing that was trying to make it back but by then it was too late the damage had been done. After that took out warren, hydra den, pool, gg.

5. yes, 5 units cost me a game I roflstomped a toss in.


I've had the same thing happen before. Once I was Zerg and my opponent hide a probe, made a pylon(scouted but didn't notice probe) and then wrapped in dts. I took care of them eventually but he pushed at my main and my army was too weak so I lost. I lost another PvsP recently when he decided to go for dts and I didn't have a robobay for the observer or a forge for a measly cannon. Did I mention that I was winning that game as well, all I had to do was keep us my harass. Point is, it's part of the game, just as we can burrow banes, regenerate roaches, etc.... He had good game sense especially if he planned that before the fight commenced


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


omg I see thiru browsing.


lol

Yeah I've completely stopped playing Starcraft because I discovered Project Reality a month ago, and it's been taking all my time









I still read to see if anyone wants me to add anything to the op (don't hesitate to ask). If someone wants to take charge of the thread, just ask.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


lol

Yeah I've completely stopped playing Starcraft because I discovered Project Reality a month ago, and it's been taking all my time









I still read to see if anyone wants me to add anything to the op (don't hesitate to ask). If someone wants to take charge of the thread, just ask.


I'll be willing to take charge, since, I'm on here everyday likely every 30min or so XD


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just watched the world champ MKprime vs MC. I cannot believe MC won the first game like that.


----------



## DoomDash

Ditto.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13016721*
> Ditto.











rofl


----------



## Ruckol1

I'll be going live at 12 east. Will appreciate any viewers who could critique my play (preferably zvp)

edit nvm school net to ****ty tonight


----------



## DoomDash

New portraits!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209564


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


New portraits!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=209564











I tried to get the StarJeweled one and gave up.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I tried to get the StarJeweled one and gave up.


The Starjeweled one is easy, got it on my first try. The Left 2 Die one seems hard though =/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The Starjeweled one is easy, got it on my first try. The Left 2 Die one seems hard though =/


This.

Just get an ultra vs AI on hard, and keep healing it over and over.


----------



## BigFan

Interesting thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...3266009?page=1


----------



## DoomDash

Marines are pretty solid.. the only thing Terran has that hasn't been over nerfed ( and the Marauder ).


----------



## DoomDash

I just remembered I have 2 hours with LZgamer today ! lol. I am going to try and stream them if he allows.

Haven't slept yet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Marines are pretty solid.. the only thing Terran has that hasn't been over nerfed ( and the Marauder ).


Hoping they won't change the marine or marauder but will wait and see what Bliz does









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just remembered I have 2 hours with LZgamer today ! lol. I am going to try and stream them if he allows.

Haven't slept yet.


lol, maybe sleep now? or you could alternatively get on and we can get a game going in 10min time?


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'll just duke it out and stay up at this point. Don't want to risk missing it by sleeping through an alarm or something.


----------



## DoomDash

I'll play. I don't see you on.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'll play. I don't see you on.


I'll be on in 5min, just finishing something up


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I'll be on in 5min, just finishing something up










Ewww!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Ewww!!










rofl









Edit: On atm


----------



## cory1234

Ugh. I just made it to work







. No SC for a while..


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Ugh. I just made it to work







. No SC for a while..


Disappointing, maybe later tonight?


----------



## Ruckol1

I hate you guys

...must.. study..


----------



## __Pat__

Hey guys can you recommend me any guides for strategy? I got my new connections and after a couple of games I realized I COMPLETELY suck!

I'm looking at this thread and I feel like I'm reading a foreign language or something.. (gates, pool, raks)








How do I b00n myself?!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I hate you guys

...must.. study..


eh.. UofT's a party school, no need to study to do good.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just remembered I have 2 hours with LZgamer today ! lol. I am going to try and stream them if he allows.

Haven't slept yet.


LOL? What's wrong with you man! Sleep!


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


eh.. UofT's a party school, no need to study to do good.










we are? all I've seen so far are a zillion Asian engineers who don't like to party


----------



## slytown

I'm still in bronze league ( i just started laddering a couple weeks ago) but I've noticed at least 3 of my wins have been against proxy 2nd CC strategies. I was just wondering where people got this idea from and whether it actually works, cuz I haven't had a problem with it. yet...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13024693*
> I hate you guys
> 
> ...must.. study..










Studying is good, keep it up!







Either way, you didn't miss much. Just doom stomping me as usual, given I did take a PvsZ where he went mass drones on 4 bases XD Not to mention that 44min game where he went for mass infestors. Took out like 30 of them the first time, then he went mass banes, all 3 bases of mine were levelled















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13024851*
> eh.. UofT's a party school, no need to study to do good.
> 
> LOL? What's wrong with you man! Sleep!


LZGamer > Sleep in doom's mind








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;13026149*
> I'm still in bronze league ( i just started laddering a couple weeks ago) but I've noticed at least 3 of my wins have been against proxy 2nd CC strategies. I was just wondering where people got this idea from and whether it actually works, cuz I haven't had a problem with it. yet...


2nd CC? You mean make a PF in your base?


----------



## Sainesk

Starjeweled, whodunnit and won against insane ai, post right click "mind control" patch?

Haow???


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13026297*
> :2nd CC? You mean make a PF in your base?


No, like they build a second CC/nexus somewhere else and then the game ends up being 30 minutes cuz i have to run my army around and finish off their 4 extra factorys or something. One time a protoss took my gold, but i had no trouble getting rid of that base.

That's the other thing. I have games like that won within 15 minutes and they don't exit game. Sometimes they just gg and sit there still running a worker around. Annoying, but anyway...


----------



## Nw0rb

Looking for somone that wants to get the Stank chivo/portrait nw0rb #761 im rdy to go should be really easy kill a stank on hard before it kills anything. on left 2 die not to mention the chivo for beating it on hard who is down


----------



## DoomDash

The unkillable roach micro / hack ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209908

Download the replay, it's near the last 3/4ths after burrow movement is done for blue.

Thoughts? Possible? Hacks? Jaedong?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hacker.

Yup, no need to search around for banelings in the fog of war, just 1a straight for them. BOSS. Who needs to look at own base and hatch, as well as select queen to inject? That's for noobs.

What's this jaedong thing.


----------



## BigFan

1-4 today, I guess the Terrans were out because all my games were against T(PvsT and TvsTs). After this, I think TvsT is actually worse in some cases than ZvsZ









Edit: Just watched that roach replay, that was amazing. I knew about roach micro but never actually researched the burrow heal ability because I would use the money for something else. Maybe I start looking into this


----------



## jpaolof

that roach micro's pretty sick. I haven't seen a micro as good as that, not even in GSL. oO


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jpaolof*


that roach micro's pretty sick. I haven't seen a micro as good as that, not even in GSL. oO


GAH I want to see this SO BAD but I'm at the library on my laptop! 
and if I go back to my room to watch I will end up playing for 4 hours until 5 am, before I finally decide to go to bed only to be interrupted by an email informing me some jerk named doomdash is going live, and then feel obligated to watch.

***


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vermillion*


Heres a recording of the Huk vs Idra shenanigans:
http://www.justin.tv/jabba_sp/b/282868451
Starts in the middle of game 2.


the link is gone







repost ?!


----------



## DoomDash

I just watched Jinro's stream, and I must say his ******* unit control / speed is sick.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just watched Jinro's stream, and I must say his ******* unit control / speed is sick.


must resist sc2.

ladies and gentlemen I am 5 pages away from temporary freedom, before I just have to read for exams and have no class.


----------



## DoomDash

Did I just beat Artosis ?

  
 You Tube  



 
Can anyone confirm this is his NA account? Evidence to support this being him :

http://twitter.com/#!/artosis

Sounds like he is playing NA, according to moonglade.

CONFIRM?

**EDIT** everyone is telling me its the real one







.

DOOM > Artosis ( with new keyboard playing from korea hitting g accidentally ). DAMN IM GOOD







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Looks like you should have applied for NASL.

How did the session with LzGamer go? Or you just realized there's nothing he can teach you?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Looks like you should have applied for NASL.

How did the session with LzGamer go? Or you just realized there's nothing he can teach you?










He was a no show, but I emailed him to reschedule. I might not know how it works, yks says the students might contact the player? But I set it up on gosucoaching and I didn't get any info of how it works or his code. Hope it works out.


----------



## zazzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;12129145*
> Cannon rushing vs Zerg FE is seriously good.


Hah, you can try cannon rush on me if I hatch first but you'll never get me.

I always shut it down because I have 3 drones out if I smell fishiness. I always 15 hatch 14 pool, then no gas, until 2 queens and 1 spine or enough zlings for whatever. I've only EVER been beat by gay proxy 2 gate cannon rush if I do a 15/14. Basically, they use the Z lot to protect cannon while they warp in... However, I've been playing P toss and the death ball, and the only way I win ever. is if I multi prong attack and or base trade.

I faced 16 voids vs 25 corruptors voids won with help of a few stalkers, and the 6 cols raped anything on ground... I though I lost for sure but instead I just countered blocked the probe escape, have creep and vision everywhere, and base traded because I couldn't beat his main army. In fact the only way I've been beating toss is by either base trades, or avoiding the actual toss army because it's so OP with FF and Cols especially with voids having so much life...

I don't get why voids have so much life, since toss still have carriers and motherships.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;12143748*
> guys i need major help. i hate banelings. I am currently raging but trying to restrain myself. Banelings are the most op things since the history of forever. No i'm not trolling. I am terran and in the past 20 matches i haven't lost to t or p, but i've lost about 10 times to z. How do you stop banelings? It's not possible imo, they are cheap and fast and one baneling is capable of killing 20 marines in one hit. Can someobody please help me? I'm really raging at myself and frustrated right now!


Banes are so easy to beat, you guys just never do it... BUILD when you attack, meaning put rax's up as physical obstructions that block and slow down the banes for the tanks to splash them. spread your units, hold muraders in the front of the attack.


----------



## Ruckol1

Had a bit of time to ladder this morning. Went well, undefeated till I faced my first imbatoss of the day. I knew during the loading screen I was doomed (heh). Oh well, I'm sure the skewed win % in zvp will warrant a change eventually.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zazzn;13036752*
> Hah, you can try cannon rush on me if I hatch first but you'll never get me.
> 
> I always shut it down because I have 3 drones out if I smell fishiness. I always 15 hatch 14 pool, then no gas, until 2 queens and 1 spine or enough zlings for whatever. I've only EVER been beat by gay proxy 2 gate cannon rush if I do a 15/14. Basically, they use the Z lot to protect cannon while they warp in... However, I've been playing P toss and the death ball, and the only way I win ever. is if I multi prong attack and or base trade.
> 
> I faced 16 voids vs 25 corruptors voids won with help of a few stalkers, and the 6 cols raped anything on ground... I though I lost for sure but instead I just countered blocked the probe escape, have creep and vision everywhere, and base traded because I couldn't beat his main army. In fact the only way I've been beating toss is by either base trades, or avoiding the actual toss army because it's so OP with FF and Cols especially with voids having so much life...
> 
> I don't get why voids have so much life, since toss still have carriers and motherships.
> 
> Banes are so easy to beat, you guys just never do it... BUILD when you attack, meaning put rax's up as physical obstructions that block and slow down the banes for the tanks to splash them. spread your units, hold muraders in the front of the attack.


lol *** Eric, I don't even remember posting that you grave digger.


----------



## DoomDash

PS: Terran players have no jobs I swear to god. They only play in the early morning / mid-day. At night, rare as hell. ( this includes me )


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13036868*
> Had a bit of time to ladder this morning. Went well, undefeated till I faced my first imbatoss of the day. I knew during the loading screen I was doomed (heh). Oh well, I'm sure the skewed win % in zvp will warrant a change eventually.


I seem to be losing a LOT to protoss as well lately. But I also play protoss.

What I'm saying is that if you lose in a certain matchup, it doesn't mean said race is overpowered, there's probably holes in your game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zazzn;13036752*
> Hah, you can try cannon rush on me if I hatch first but you'll never get me.
> 
> I always shut it down because I have 3 drones out if I smell fishiness. I always 15 hatch 14 pool, then no gas, until 2 queens and 1 spine or enough zlings for whatever. I've only EVER been beat by gay proxy 2 gate cannon rush if I do a 15/14. Basically, they use the Z lot to protect cannon while they warp in... However, I've been playing P toss and the death ball, and the only way I win ever. is if I multi prong attack and or base trade.
> 
> I don't get why voids have so much life, since toss still have carriers and motherships.


Seems like you're getting canon rushed late. An earlier variation (not sure if this is done at pro levels) is to hide a scouting probe behind the mineral line, out of sight. Make the probe peek in to scout for a hatchery every 10 seconds (hatcheries don't have a long sight range when building) and build a pylon behind the mineral line if a hatch is going up. Then a canon and another pylon to block everything in. Done correctly your canon won't be spotted until it's up. Of course tons of things can go wrong but I've done this successfully many times.

Why should vray health be nerfed simply because carriers/motherships have high HP as well? By this logic marine health should be nerfed - terrans already have ghosts. Roaches also, since hydras are the same size with similar HP.


----------



## DoomDash

You should probably update your sig as 2260 Diamond is really low these days lol... well for S1 anyway.

Protoss players NOW are 1000x better / have better builds / are better on big maps than ever before. Protoss is actually terrifying atm.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13038993*
> You should probably update your sig as 2260 Diamond is really low these days lol... well for S1 anyway.
> 
> Protoss players NOW are 1000x better / have better builds / are better on big maps than ever before. Protoss is actually terrifying atm.


Experienced Protoss players are scary now because every single one of them has gotten good with forcefield micro and mass sentry is standard play now. Protoss already had a big edge in PvZ in early and late game, and now they own the mid game too because of FF. The game is titled from start to finish.


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1csIZoDoU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Ia9e3OueA[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Did I just beat Artosis ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A

Can anyone confirm this is his NA account? Evidence to support this being him :

http://twitter.com/#!/artosis

Sounds like he is playing NA, according to moonglade.

CONFIRM?

**EDIT** everyone is telling me its the real one







.

DOOM > Artosis ( with new keyboard playing from korea hitting g accidentally ). DAMN IM GOOD







.












Either way, it's great you beat him, but, umm what did you get in return?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Had a bit of time to ladder this morning. Went well, undefeated till I faced my first imbatoss of the day. *I knew during the loading screen I was doomed (heh)*. Oh well, I'm sure the skewed win % in zvp will warrant a change eventually.


You lack faith in yourself and are pretty negative. I suggest thinking about positive games and being confident in your abilities to beat said P player









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


lol *** Eric, I don't even remember posting that you grave digger.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


PS: Terran players have no jobs I swear to god. They only play in the early morning / mid-day. At night, rare as hell. ( this includes me )


So full of win!








/joke

Maybe it was just me, but, yesterday, terran players were out in full force. 5 games all against Terran, 1-4 record. Funny, seems I stand a better chance against Z as P XD


----------



## jpaolof

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Did I just beat Artosis ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A

Can anyone confirm this is his NA account? Evidence to support this being him :

http://twitter.com/#!/artosis

Sounds like he is playing NA, according to moonglade.

CONFIRM?

**EDIT** everyone is telling me its the real one







.

DOOM > Artosis ( with new keyboard playing from korea hitting g accidentally ). DAMN IM GOOD







.




hey doom i think it's the real Artosis. I can tell from the way he assigned his hotkeys and the frequency he checks on his scouting probe.
try to check this out a replay of Artosis vs Nemato http://replayfu.com/r/B7L88r


----------



## yellowtoblerone

TLO reminds me of this guy with diff hair color.










But I doubt that's the real artosis.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *DoomDash*   PS: Terran players have no jobs I swear to god. They only play in the early morning / mid-day. At night, rare as hell. ( this includes me )  
it's only cause they took our jobs! (silly protoss boss hating on t...)

  
 You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Just had a crazy 38min game on pits. Took it but let's just say I see much more battlecrusiers now than I did before in my Terran games, wonder if the new speed buff played a role







I also find that speedlots with upgrades are pretty good, thinking of starting to use them much more








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ackwater-gulch
Used an ability that is rarely used, anyone want to guess?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Just had a crazy 38min game on pits. Took it but let's just say I see much more battlecrusiers now than I did before in my Terran games, wonder if the new speed buff played a role







*I also find that speedlots with upgrades are pretty good, thinking of starting to use them much more







*
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ackwater-gulch
Used an ability that is rarely used, anyone want to guess?










I've always wondered why they aren't used more. They chew threw a bio army z/t with upgrades like nothing.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I checked artosis' other replays and videos and compared it to sjartosis vs doom; It's definitely a copy cat and not the real artosis.


----------



## Idra

I haven't played any of you guys in forever. No one is in the OCN channel anymore. :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I've always wondered why they aren't used more. They chew threw a bio army z/t with upgrades like nothing.


well, they lack AA which can be big if your opponent decides to switch to mass mutas or something. In that game I posted, I had him scouted and knew everything aside from the bcs. I was also maxed 200/200 so I decided to just go for it because I could easily make another 9 zealots from my WG and with CB, make another 9 soon after







BTW, if you watch it, what did you think of the distraction?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I haven't played any of you guys in forever. No one is in the OCN channel anymore. :/


Well, there are some now, but, I think 7 or so is the sweet time to find someone


----------



## Allenssmart

All new micro orientated zerg BO:
MikeHunt FEFEFEFEFEFEFEFE
(Drones and OVs throughout unless specified)
Hatchery
Hatchery
Hatchery
Hatchery
Hatchery
Hatchery
180 Pool
Queen

This is a standard ZvX opening. It is strong against most openings, stopping any early aggression and is not vulnerable to early pressure. This is an very micro orientated build, and requires lots of micro. After this opening, the zerg is free to transition to mass evo chambers. First popularized by MikeOxbig.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I checked artosis' other replays and videos and compared it to sjartosis vs doom; It's definitely a copy cat and not the real artosis.


It's the real Artosis. One of my friends added this account to his buddy list in Season 1 after watching iNcontrols stream, and said he had the same previous season record. Also as someone else said his hotkey setup is the same, and he has been tweeting about how laggy it is / disc connects on the NA server. I think he is practicing for NASL lag.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


I haven't played any of you guys in forever. No one is in the OCN channel anymore. :/


Real idra??????


----------



## Ruckol1

sdiont play starcraft drunk


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Just to illustrate how far Protoss players have come -- it wasn't long ago that when you saw a Protoss with good forcefield micro, it was really impressive. It made a player stand out from the crowd. Now what's unusual is a protoss with *bad* forcefield micro. Good FF micro skills are the norm now.


----------



## slytown

Just figured out "A" spam for terran. I feel like such an idiot. Seven wins in a row right now. My early/mid-game battles are consistently hitting 350 APM, but I keep forgeting to macro when i pull back. Goin' to bed.


----------



## DoomDash

How is it possible to play 9 TvT's in a row when Terran is the least popular race in Masters, and 35% are Protoss?

11 of 13 games all TvT... *** !!!!??!

I stopped playing after a 50+ min TvT that I lost.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13046722*
> How is it possible to play 9 TvT's in a row when Terran is the least popular race in Masters, and 35% are Protoss?
> 
> 11 of 13 games all TvT... *** !!!!??!
> 
> I stopped playing after a 50+ min TvT that I lost.


Assuming protoss is the most popular...

If P=0.35 and T

So your chance of fighting 9 terran players in a row are between:

0.31^9 = 0.00264%
0.32^9 = 0.00352%

Nearly impossible but it happens







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13038993*
> You should probably update your sig as 2260 Diamond is really low these days lol... well for S1 anyway.
> 
> Protoss players NOW are 1000x better / have better builds / are better on big maps than ever before. Protoss is actually terrifying atm.


Yeah I'll update. Forgot about that. I found out a few weeks ago that the guy formerly #1 in my ladder went onto #4 WORLD? I'm desperately trying to remember his name, me and him used to practice (though he wasn't that good then). Is there a way to check ladder archives?

I think you nailed it about protoss builds. Most protoss players only know/knew how to 4 gate into robo into colossus. This made for very predictable protoss play, Huk was famous for it. My long time friend, xiLost, specifically said that once he started looking at ladder as practice vs doing what works and winning, he started getting much better. The special builds I'm currently working with are:
VS T:
- 2 gate zealots + sentry + hidden vray x 2 + all in with probes.
- 2 gate turtle + phoenix + colossus.
VS Z:
- Fast expo + offensive/defensive canon into phoenix/vray

Into every build I try to integrate zealot warps into mineral lines as well. Mixes things up nicely.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13045972*
> Real idra??????


nope, we already asked that before








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13046722*
> How is it possible to play 9 TvT's in a row when Terran is the least popular race in Masters, and 35% are Protoss?
> 
> 11 of 13 games all TvT... *** !!!!??!
> 
> I stopped playing after a 50+ min TvT that I lost.


lol, well, if it makes you feel better, my last 6 games have been against T, 3 TvsTs and 3 PvsTs. The TvsTs were dam annoying and PvsT were on the mild side, seems every T in Silver now makes tanks and goes for battlecrusiers


----------



## DoomDash

Lol what is with the quote of mine on page 1 in the first post bigfan?!

Remind me NEVER to watch my Protoss friend stream. I am sick of watching him play thinking how easy it looks... it makes me actually angry.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lol what is with the quote of mine on page 1 in the first post bigfan?!

Remind me NEVER to watch my Protoss friend stream. I am sick of watching him play thinking how easy it looks... it makes me actually angry.


Yeah, I was wondering about that. Although it looks like it's Sin100's work since Bigfan hasn't edited the OP yet.


----------



## Ruckol1

Thank god I didn't ladder last night that would not have ended well. I woke up this morning hurting quite a bit but as soon as I saw my chrome window open ocn with comment "don't play starcraft drunk" I loaded up my latest matchest- phew.


----------



## [nK]Sharp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Assuming protoss is the most popular...

If P=0.35 and T<Z<P then 0.31<T<0.32 and 0.33<Z<0.34

So your chance of fighting 9 terran players in a row are between:

0.31^9 = 0.00264%
0.32^9 = 0.00352%

Nearly impossible but it happens







.


Wouldn't the numbers be different depending on what league you play in as well?


----------



## QuadDamage

Best way to win

Start with whats sup bro

Then tell them no rush 45 mins

They say thats to long, tell them 35 minutes

Then they leave lol


----------



## Allenssmart

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm excited for TSL3 tomorrow.










He wins


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


Best way to win

Start with whats sup bro

Then tell them no rush 45 mins

They say thats to long, tell them 35 minutes

Then they leave lol


I remember winning one cause I was lagging a bit, and everytime the timeout screen popped up I was like naw man it's u, after like the 20th time I was like naw man its u he just left rofl


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[nK]Sharp*


Wouldn't the numbers be different depending on what league you play in as well?


Just plug the number from each league with that formula and you will get your probabilities. It will still be a 0.0xx% chance you will play against any race for 9 straight times.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I remember winning one cause I was lagging a bit, and everytime the timeout screen popped up I was like naw man it's u, after like the 20th time I was like naw man its u he just left rofl












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lol what is with the quote of mine on page 1 in the first post bigfan?!

Remind me NEVER to watch my Protoss friend stream. I am sick of watching him play thinking how easy it looks... it makes me actually angry.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah, I was wondering about that. Although it looks like it's Sin100's work since Bigfan hasn't edited the OP yet.


Don't look at me, I just got home









As the new owner of this thread, I expect the following rules to be abided to:
a. You shall all play nice, no swear words, no horseplay, etc...
b. Any and all information/replays/analysis, etc.... contained within this thread are now the property of BigFan and BigFan only.
c. In relation to b, you are not allowed to go back and edit your posts to remove info/replays, doing so will result in your termination from this thread.
Anyone that doesn't agree with these rules is not allowed to comment.

Disclaimer: BigFan is not responsible for anyone lacking a sense of humour and actually believing that the above rules are not jokes which are intended to foster and harbor a loving atmosphere


----------



## Epona

Hey, is there anywhere I can find the replay (or just a video) of the MLG Pro Circuit iNcontrol vs SeleCT? It's not on their site, and it was an epic game...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Epona*


Hey, is there anywhere I can find the replay (or just a video) of the MLG Pro Circuit iNcontrol vs SeleCT? It's not on their site, and it was an epic game...


Have you tried just googling it?







You might be able to stumble across some site, maybe on justin.tv or something where someone has uploaded it


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXUOWXidcY0&t=0m47s



has nobody really looked at it? it's godly.


----------



## DoomDash

New sigs for other forums that allow it :


----------



## DoomDash

I wrote a little post on battle.net just for fun but since bnet is not working atm ( for posting ), I'll post it here:

Remove Thors in exchange for Goliaths.

Thors are not a bad unit by any means, but the problem with the Thor is it overlaps for Terran for ground damage and AA damage.

For ground Terran has lots of good powerful options: Marines, Marauders, Tanks, and this is more than enough to deal with any armored ground force, things like Hellions / Reapers are good at cleaning up light ( as well as marines and tanks are OK ).

For anti-air Thor's are good against Muta's, banshees, and Phoenix. Everything else it's pretty terrible against. Terran again already has marines / missile turrets for these. I realize Thor's bring a few options to the table for AA that marines do not, like range to cover, and not being able to be Graviton Beamed. How ever if Thor's were half the cost of a Thor they would cover the same range with the upgrade, and still be able to deal with Phoenix pretty well because of that.

This would also give Terran more options for armored AA, and make mech far more viable against Protoss ect.

If not this, I have one more idea: Make Goliaths made at the factory, and allow them to "transform" into a Thor if you combine two of them. In the beta videos Thors were too big to be made at the factory, this could kind of fill that role that Blizzard originally intended. They could take like 1 minute of build time to "transform". If this were to happen Goliaths would be exactly half the price, half the build time, and half the supply of a Thor so when they transform into a Thor they would be the same as current.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Allen why do you think I posted the automatron 2k picture.

MVP vs MKP, who will win?


----------



## DoomDash

IDK but I'm cheering for MKP. Game 3 was sick.


----------



## __Pat__

Hey guys! Ok so I'm trying to play online after reading the guides (this one specifically http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/view.php?pg=article-aterransguide )

I build up marauders and marines and I attack him and win. (He's not a noob seeing as how he had zealots, stalkers and void rays.)
So he calls me an idiot for spamming units, and said people like me ruined the game









Did I do some kind of forbidden strategy?


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *__Pat__;13059808*
> Hey guys! Ok so I'm trying to play online after reading the guides (this one specifically http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/view.php?pg=article-aterransguide )
> 
> I build up marauders and marines and I attack him and win. (He's not a noob seeing as how he had zealots, stalkers and void rays.)
> So he calls me an idiot for spamming units, and said people like me ruined the game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I do some kind of forbidden strategy?


Noob Protoss players get pissy when a terran uses marines and marauders, they are "hard" to counter. Marauders are just good aainst all his gateway units, and he need to either get immortals, colossi or high temps to counter, but he's probably not good enough to scout and see what you have constantly and also bring advanced units with basic units.

Just do whatever it takes to win. You'll find players who can beat you pretty easily when you use certain strats, so youy have to get better and use different ones etc.









Here's my question to everyone else in the thread, just now trying out Zerg (more seriously anyways) and what counters mutas with Zerg? I usually lose to lings/mutas, even though I'll have lings/banelings/mutas and a couple spore turrets.


----------



## Nw0rb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13054590*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't look at me, I just got home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the new owner of this thread, I expect the following rules to be abided to:
> a. You shall all play nice, no swear words, no horseplay, etc...
> b. Any and all information/replays/analysis, etc.... contained within this thread are now the property of BigFan and BigFan only.
> c. In relation to b, you are not allowed to go back and edit your posts to remove info/replays, doing so will result in your termination from this thread.
> Anyone that doesn't agree with these rules is not allowed to comment.
> 
> Disclaimer: BigFan is not responsible for anyone lacking a sense of humour and actually believing that the above rules are not jokes which are intended to foster and harbor a loving atmosphere


LOL good stuff


----------



## Nw0rb

Hey guys im just startin to play with zerg for last month and was wondering what you guys thought was the best opener as zerg vs T/P. Like the default one i should always open with


----------



## Nw0rb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13059890*
> Noob Protoss players get pissy when a terran uses marines and marauders, they are "hard" to counter. Marauders are just good aainst all his gateway units, and he need to either get immortals, colossi or high temps to counter, but he's probably not good enough to scout and see what you have constantly and also bring advanced units with basic units.
> 
> Just do whatever it takes to win. You'll find players who can beat you pretty easily when you use certain strats, so youy have to get better and use different ones etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my question to everyone else in the thread, just now trying out Zerg (more seriously anyways) and what counters mutas with Zerg? I usually lose to lings/mutas, even though I'll have lings/banelings/mutas and a couple spore turrets.


Build a couple extra queens and some anit air def


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm about done with Terran.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## DoomDash

It's been a bad 4 days in a row. I've dropped over 100 points.

Do you post on Huskies site?

Thor icon and I'm trying Zerg.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *__Pat__;13059808*
> Hey guys! Ok so I'm trying to play online after reading the guides (this one specifically http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/view.php?pg=article-aterransguide )
> 
> I build up marauders and marines and I attack him and win. (He's not a noob seeing as how he had zealots, stalkers and void rays.)
> *So he calls me an idiot for spamming units, and said people like me ruined the game*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I do some kind of forbidden strategy?










Ignore him. When the game was released, MMM was pretty powerful, MMM= marine, marauder, medivacs. MMM is still pretty powerful against gateway units since they weren't exactly nerfed(not that I believe they need to be).
Most P players have gotten used to facing MMM and with some good ffs, you can take it on. If you have a large group of MMM and you stim and kite, it becomes harder for gateway units. In that case, it's best that he gets a colossi or two or try to land some good ffs to split your army. My point is, just play the way you want, MM is the backbone of the terran army, it's like telling me someone not to makes slings and roaches or for protoss, zealots and stalkers








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13060315*
> It's been a bad 4 days in a row. I've dropped over 100 points.
> 
> *Do you post on Huskies site?*
> 
> Thor icon and I'm trying Zerg.


Husky has a site? Not that I care








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13059890*
> Here's my question to everyone else in the thread, just now trying out Zerg (more seriously anyways) and what counters mutas with Zerg? I usually lose to lings/mutas, even though I'll have lings/banelings/mutas and a couple spore turrets.


Get an infestor, FG then use some hydras to shoot them down, so, really, I guess infestor+hydra is your answer








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nw0rb;13059895*
> LOL good stuff


Glad to know someone enjoyed it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nw0rb;13059901*
> Hey guys im just startin to play with zerg for last month and was wondering what you guys thought was the best opener as zerg vs T/P. Like the default one i should always open with


You can try 15 exp 14 pool and on most maps now, it should be viable do to their length but it can be hard to defend on the smaller one which is why I try to lay down two crawlers near the exp and ramp to prevent someone from just walking up my ramp. If you don't think you can defend this, you can always go for a pool then get an extractor, queen, banes nest first(against T) or roach warren first(against P). Then get some more scouting down to see what he's going for, etc.... and go for an exp, possibly at 20 or something. Sorry I can't be more detailed, I don't go for any specific builds with Z because I like the flexibility and usually just start with the basic build above and proceed from there









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13060070*
> I think I'm about done with Terran.


As we've spoken before, give Z/P a try then switch back to T after a while. It'll give you a new perspective on the game and you can get some wins(if you can play the others races at masters that is







).


----------



## yks

Play Protoss


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13060802*
> Play Protoss


lol, of course, I find Protoss much easier to play against Z and increases my chance of winning then Terran


----------



## Perdition64

Hey, does anyone have any tips for beginner zerg player who wants to keep his f-ing minerals from going over 500 surplus even with 4-5 expansions? I sometimes get to 10k >.>


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Perdition64*


Hey, does anyone have any tips for beginner zerg player who wants to keep his f-ing minerals from going over 500 surplus even with 4-5 expansions? I sometimes get to 10k >.>


Make sure to get all upgrades, umm that is all







When you have 4-5 exps, it's going to be really difficult to keep your money down if you already have upgrades and an army built, I guess you can trade armies then rebuild to use some minerals, maybe some crazy harass or something


----------



## Perdition64

I've played a lot of zerg in the past 5 days or so of owning the game, but not really the other races. How advisable is it to go back and do this; as in, will i be less able to spot strategies the others use against me, or can i just gather that by looking at guides and stuff?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nw0rb*


Hey guys im just startin to play with zerg for last month and was wondering what you guys thought was the best opener as zerg vs T/P. Like the default one i should always open with


On huge maps hatch first is pretty good. On smaller maps I really like 11 overpool 18 hatch. You cut drones at 15 and as soon as your pool finishes you have exactly 250 minerals for a queen and 6 zerglings (with extractor trick). Then you expand while attacking with your 6 zerglings. If protoss doesn't chronoboost 2nd zealot you can kill his cyber or do some damage to probes, just make sure you don't lose the zerglings and drone hard. Then transition to whatever feels appropriate.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think I'm about done with Terran.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's been a bad 4 days in a row. I've dropped over 100 points.

Do you post on Huskies site?

Thor icon and I'm trying Zerg.


Just take it as an opportunity to improve imo. Go through the replays and look for stuff to work on. Watch some pros replays for inspiration.

I think you may be playing too conservative sometimes. Not that it's a bad thing in itself but at that level you probably should be adding some variety. Maybe try experimenting with things like blue hellion drops, banshees, faster medivacs, CC first, adding tanks to your composition etc. Not necessarily to replace your standard play, but to have them ready if the opportunity appears.

If I was to point one thing that seems to be missing in your games that would be harassment (drops, multi-pronged attacks, banshees). May be a matter of style though.


----------



## DoomDash

No you're right. I know what I need to do as Terran but I don't like that style and drops especially almost always blow up in my face, especially against easy to prevent drops Zerg. It's just me venting because I want to win with macro style and it's counter productive sometimes.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

In the beginning of set 4 mkp vs mvp, I just fell asleep...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *__Pat__*


Hey guys! Ok so I'm trying to play online after reading the guides (this one specifically http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forum...-aterransguide )

I build up marauders and marines and I attack him and win. (He's not a noob seeing as how he had zealots, stalkers and void rays.)
So he calls me an idiot for spamming units, and said people like me ruined the game









Did I do some kind of forbidden strategy?










Terran vs Protoss, T begins by getting Marine and Marrauuuuders and continue to get M and M and Medivacs. It's just how the match up is. However Thor banshee helions are very good too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No you're right. I know what I need to do as Terran but I don't like that style and drops especially almost always blow up in my face, especially against easy to prevent drops Zerg. It's just me venting because I want to win with macro style and it's counter productive sometimes.


Your problem I think. I believe it's the same with both Protoss and Terran, you just cannot play macro vs some strategies. Timing attack would be the only way to win.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Perdition64*


Hey, does anyone have any tips for beginner zerg player who wants to keep his f-ing minerals from going over 500 surplus even with 4-5 expansions? I sometimes get to 10k >.>


Throw down a bunch of extra hatcheries at that point, and go engage with your 200/200 army. Don't even look at the battle, just A-click into his base, and while that happens, spam units. Doesn't matter what units, just spam them as your army dies. By the time your old army is almost dead, you'll have another 200/200 army ready to go. A 300/200 push is what it's called.

If you're getting too many minerals before you have a 200/200 army, get used to the timing on inject larvae and do it on every cooldown. When you have multiple bases use backspace to quickly move through them. And then make some units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


If I was to point one thing that seems to be missing in your games that would be harassment (drops, multi-pronged attacks, banshees). May be a matter of style though.


Yep, this is 100% true, I don't think I've ever seen you utilize drops in any shape or form doom. While I'm not saying you should, take a look into it, could be what you're missing and will improve your game








Also, some styles don't work against others, simple as that. If you want macro style, go for Zerg


----------



## DoomDash

I've been trying drops but idk if they've even been helping that much.


----------



## dcloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Perdition64*


Hey, does anyone have any tips for beginner zerg player who wants to keep his f-ing minerals from going over 500 surplus even with 4-5 expansions? I sometimes get to 10k >.>


Are you winning these matches?

As a Zerg player myself, I would say that is a great problem to have. Macro is the name of the game for Zerg

If you are winning your matches, then make sure you keep up on your larva injects and upgrades for your units.

If you are not, then you need to watch your replays and other peoples replays (Pro's preferably). When watching replays, you need to grasp the timings of certain pushes/units/strats from all 3 races. From that, you will be able to sense when is the proper time to build up on drones or build up your attacking units.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Drops vs P is op as heck. On maps like xel or typhon peaks, drop in main, attack natural before P gets colosus and after stim. It's GG from there. Even after colosus comes out, Protoss has to stick in a ball, but m/m in small/medium numbers does a ton of damage catching protoss out of position. Even when p comes to attack, medivac out of there and do again in 30 seconds. Terran gets further ahead on two or more base. GG 75% of the time from there.


----------



## DoomDash

Drops are OK vs Protoss, but I think at high level play you just get some extra observers and becomes easy to shut down. Look at Kiwi vs Select to see what I mean. Drops seem strong early, but late game is all Protoss... 16 warp gates ... drops aint doing ****.

I also love DT warp ins, forcing a scan EVERY drop is quite good. People also leave a templar behind for feedback and storm.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Once you see MC get that sentry on xel naga, you knew it was GG. Ra's late pylon only exasperated the problem.

The reason why drops are OP vs protoss in most cases is the OPness of marine/marauders in low unit counts vs protoss. Protoss units are only effective in a ball, if you spread them thin, like many pros I've seen has done in the GSL, you significantly reduced the effectiveness of their unit power.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but that timing is very short on these new macro maps, and it takes a very long time to get there.


----------



## ThumperSD

Multi drops is where it's at


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've been trying drops but idk if they've even been helping that much.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Multi drops is where it's at


This is correct, don't just do one. Make a drop in his main then as soon as he moves there, drop another in one of his exps, preferably the farthest. If you can take out the workers or the cc, the damage to his eco is big because he'll have to remake them/rebuild it and that takes time. Hopefully, you'll still be massing for a strong timing push later on. I do agree with the observers though, I've started making several and placing them around the map. They work much better than OLs(for Z) because they are transparent and they don't cost an arm and a leg either to remake if they are taken out


----------



## KittensMewMew

I had a bad read in a TvT today and lost when I was super far ahead. Ugh.

Got a 4 blue flame hellion drop in, killed 6-8 workers, and scouted the viking-marine-tank push about to come. I had 2 banshees, a few marines and 8 hellions, so I ruined his first push, pushed him back to his main and locked down any expo attempts and setup my expo. Looking at the replay I had 40 SCVs and an expo to his 26 and no expo at that point.

Then I forgot what I was doing and built more banshees rather than vikings and lost the air battle and then the ground. Stupid me.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I had a bad read in a TvT today and lost when I was super far ahead. Ugh.

Got a 4 blue flame hellion drop in, killed 6-8 workers, and scouted the viking-marine-tank push about to come. I had 2 banshees, a few marines and 8 hellions, so I ruined his first push, pushed him back to his main and locked down any expo attempts and setup my expo. Looking at the replay I had 40 SCVs and an expo to his 26 and no expo at that point.

Then I forgot what I was doing and built more banshees rather than vikings and lost the air battle and then the ground. Stupid me.


It happens









Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=203966

EDIT: Just took another PvsT game on XC. Would upload the replay but too much work and not many watch it either way, so, I'll just give a little summary








The guy contained me to my exp then built a bunker outside it with some MMM and 3-5 tanks, 3 of which were in siege mode. Then he kept shelling my base from afar using the medivac for vision and dropping then retreating. It was pretty annoying but I could tell he wanted to draw me out, so, I was pretty safe. 
I just kept on upgrading, making more units, etc.... then once I felt I had enough I just broke right through. Felt sorry for him because he didn't stand a chance especially considering his tanks+marauders were the main backbone with maybe 5-10 marines at max. Lucky for him, I didn't have blink at the time otherwise he would've lost his 2 medivacs. Then I just took out his exp, tanks in his main using my immortals and kinda baited him out to finish the game. Funny enough, the 2 remaining medivacs that he had, he decided to make a drop in my base with them. Then he got distracted so the 5 stalkers that I wrapped in with my cannon made short work of them before he realized what was happening XD


----------



## EmMure

hey bigfan sweetie!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;13067493*
> hey bigfan sweetie!











rofl, what's up? You don't play SCII anymore?


----------



## Sainesk

after that whole idra halluc. game i'm craving some sentry hallucination action. Anyone got any good videos?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13068271*
> after that whole idra halluc. game i'm craving some sentry hallucination action. Anyone got any good videos?


Well, I posted a PvsT replay a couple of posts back. Check it out for some hallucination action, just keep in mind that it's not on the same level as the idra one


----------



## EmMure

im playing alittle now


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/...-terran-lopez/


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

NA all the way!!

In my last 5 days:

24 TvT's
10 TvP's
8 TvZ's.

HOW?!

On a side note, maybe I should start practicing TvT.


----------



## BigFan

@ForceWater Not sure how much more latency there would be, but, I guess you're going to have to decide if more people to play with is worth it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EmMure;13069244*
> im playing alittle now


Nice








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13070754*
> NA all the way!!
> 
> In my last 5 days:
> 
> 24 TvT's
> 10 TvP's
> 8 TvZ's.
> 
> HOW?!
> 
> On a side note, maybe I should start practicing TvT.


lol, u think?


----------



## DoomDash

I've been watching a ROOTKitty replay pack, mainly his TvZ. I think I see a few things I can really take into my own game. Though I wish I could understand his thinking at times.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like something may actually be wrong!!!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=211110


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Looks like something may actually be wrong!!!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=211110


What maps do you veto, if any? That could be your problem. I haven't veto'd any, but looking at the map pool, I can see how people would, especially at a higher level. Maybe people are playing a ton of mirror matchups because they veto the maps that make sense to not play on as their race.


----------



## Mit Namso

Borg Queen+gamma quadrant Dominion+Command and Conquer=Star Craft

this game is not what I thought it was, I thought it was a space adventure flying around in 3d space on a big sandbox like game, doing missions, upgrading ships, buying ships....

It runs very well MAXED so far on a stock 6950, lowest I saw was 57fps, mostly 90s I think, only 1st level of course,


----------



## Ruckol1

just lost to a ******* drone rush.. are you kidding me? people who do that should have their account ******* banned


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


just lost to a ******* drone rush.. are you kidding me? people who do that should have their account ******* banned


lol, how do you even deal with that? Shouldn't you have about an even amount of workers? I realize they do the 2x extractor trick for 12 drones total, but unless you're on Steppes, shouldn't you be even by the time they get to you? Or does the timing make it so they arrive basically as your rax/gate goes down, leaving you defenseless? I dunno, running my SCVs around like an idiot against a drone rush would feel pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


lol, how do you even deal with that? Shouldn't you have about an even amount of workers? I realize they do the 2x extractor trick for 12 drones total, but unless you're on Steppes, shouldn't you be even by the time they get to you? Or does the timing make it so they arrive basically as your rax/gate goes down, leaving you defenseless? I dunno, running my SCVs around like an idiot against a drone rush would feel pretty ridiculous.


I had more, after watching after. Well 1 more in my base, and they got a surround in my worker line. I had 2 more but one was scouting. I reported him, had 4 of my buddies report him for spamming/advertising in channels then harassment etc. Hopefully he will get a permaban or something.


----------



## yks

Tilting and fake reporting is very unflattering of you, Ruck.


----------



## slickwilly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


Borg Queen+gamma quadrant Dominion+Command and Conquer=Star Craft

this game is not what I thought it was, I thought it was a space adventure flying around in 3d space on a big sandbox like game, doing missions, upgrading ships, buying ships....

It runs very well MAXED so far on a stock 6950, lowest I saw was 57fps, mostly 90s I think, only 1st level of course,



My 470 runs the game maxed at 141 FPS, but I also have an i930 HT on @ 4.2ghz. and 6 gig of ram


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Doom, I hope you don't forget about the tournament that's starting in 20 mins...










I couldn't make it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


What maps do you veto, if any? That could be your problem. I haven't veto'd any, but looking at the map pool, I can see how people would, especially at a higher level. Maybe people are playing a ton of mirror matchups because they veto the maps that make sense to not play on as their race.


I just turned off scrap yesterday. Now I have Typhon Peaks, Slag Pitts, and Scrap off.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


just lost to a ******* drone rush.. are you kidding me? people who do that should have their account ******* banned


how do you lose to a drone rush?







theoretically in the time it takes for their workers to get to you, you should have more workers than them.

Or was it a zergling/drone combo, or they somehow got down spine crawlers if you're playing zerg too? lol


----------



## DoomDash

Someone needs to make a custom map with all 1.0 balance. Terran now has me laughing sometimes when I make a reaper or a bunker.


----------



## Perdition64

Hey,

I got the game a few days ago, and have been practicing a few mechanics in skirmish mode. Could anyone point out some glaring flaws? (BTW, I build zerglings for banelings, then cba to actually morph them cause AI is crap)

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/162142-1v1-terran-zerg-agria-valley

I'm a bit of an RTS noob.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13072920*
> What maps do you veto, if any? That could be your problem. I haven't veto'd any, but looking at the map pool, I can see how people would, especially at a higher level. Maybe people are playing a ton of mirror matchups because they veto the maps that make sense to not play on as their race.


Real players don't veto any maps, better so that you can be more well rounded








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13072344*
> Looks like something may actually be wrong!!!
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211110


Interesting, I've been getting a lot more P lately than usual, barely any Zs in season 2








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13074075*
> I had more, after watching after. Well 1 more in my base, and they got a surround in my worker line. I had 2 more but one was scouting. I reported him, had 4 of my buddies report him for spamming/advertising in channels then harassment etc. Hopefully he will get a permaban or something.


U serious? There is nothing wrong with a worker rush at all. Not his fault you lost. I might as well report everyone who has cheesed me on the ladder so far. It's part of the game, better get used to it then complain!







Either way, how can you actually report him for spamming/advertising and then harassment if he didn't actually do that?







I wouldn't feel right doing such a thing if it wasn't the case :/


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;13076558*
> There were a couple of other things, but they weren't as major. It's a lot to take in, but just remember that _everyone_ has just as many flaws in their play


everyone *had* i.m.o.

I doubt you could criticize someone like MC or SlayerSB. as much as someone say like me...


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

I have so many flaws. SO MANY.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13074075*
> I had more, after watching after. Well 1 more in my base, and they got a surround in my worker line. I had 2 more but one was scouting. I reported him, had 4 of my buddies report him for spamming/advertising in channels then harassment etc. Hopefully he will get a permaban or something.


So you got outplayed and are trying to illegitimately report this guy?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13077439*
> So you got outplayed and are trying to illegitimately report this guy?


That was my thought as well :/


----------



## ____

Challenging challenges


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Question: How do you get SC1 and BW for sc2?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03Yo4GdMiQ[/ame]


----------



## ntherblast

Anyone else even bother with 4v4 or 3v3? 3/4 of the time I feel these matchs are a gamble with getting brain dead allies to decent ones. I always seem to get paired with allies that dont know how to mass or just tech straight to battle cruisers/carriers. I'm diamond and I still get allies that fall for cheese strategies like cannon rushs. I think they should just remove 3v3 and 4v4 ladder.


----------



## Perdition64

Okay, I gave it another few goes this morning, and was..quite happy with this replay:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...-valley#rd:dna


----------



## Exfiltrate

We've gotta get more people on the overclock.net Channel. Hardly anyone on lately.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm on







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Question: How do you get SC1 and BW for sc2?



http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/in...8.msg38356#new


----------



## DoomDash

Played all morning:

TvP : 2

TvZ : 3

TvT : 9

....

...
..










EXCLUDES THE 9 TvT in a row, I re-started recording after I felt something was wrong with the match making.

I quit playing today after 5 TvT's in a row.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I had more, after watching after. Well 1 more in my base, and they got a surround in my worker line. I had 2 more but one was scouting. I reported him, had 4 of my buddies report him for spamming/advertising in channels then harassment etc. Hopefully he will get a permaban or something.


Uhh, I hope you are joking here. If you actually illegitimately reported this guy just because you lost to cheese then YOU'RE the one who deserves to be permabanned. If you can't handle cheese, then you can't handle this game, and it's time for you to find something else to play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm on







.


You're rarely on anymore actually. I think even I'm on more than you sometimes







If you're up for a game, planning to go on in 5 min


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Played all morning:

TvP : 2

TvZ : 3

TvT : 9

....

...
..










EXCLUDES THE 9 TvT in a row, I re-started recording after I felt something was wrong with the match making.

I quit playing today after 5 TvT's in a row.


Thumb up all your thumbed-down maps and vice versa. See what happens (shrug).

Some people in the TL thread were saying it might have to do with maps. Though the matchmaking system should pick an opponent THEN the map, and not vice versa.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Thumb up all your thumbed-down maps and vice versa. See what happens (shrug).

Some people in the TL thread were saying it might have to do with maps. Though the matchmaking system should pick an opponent THEN the map, and not vice versa.


Why not just unthumb them all? I think that is the only true way to test if the system is working as planned. I don't have any of mine thumbed even though I hate some of them with a passion


----------



## DoomDash

Unchecking all of them to see if it helps.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13086221*
> Unchecking all of them to see if it helps.


I think it might help









I've been getting only T opponents in my last 9 games or so. I've become somewhat of an expert at PvsT


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13080192*
> Anyone else even bother with 4v4 or 3v3? 3/4 of the time I feel these matchs are a gamble with getting brain dead allies to decent ones. I always seem to get paired with allies that dont know how to mass or just tech straight to battle cruisers/carriers. I'm diamond and I still get allies that fall for cheese strategies like cannon rushs. I think they should just remove 3v3 and 4v4 ladder.


I'm a huge fan of the guy who, when you ask, "what's the plan?" "Void rays". Every time, without fail. Then they actually don't build anything until they can build Void rays. Same goes for you Terrans and Zerg in 3v3 and 4v4. Battlecruisers and Broodlords are not effective at holding off a 6 minutes push. Because you are still 6 minutes away from making them. Rage. Just build 3 gates and start spamming zealots, I'll make some marines, and the Zerg can make some lings. A winner is you by just spamming tier 1 units and convincing your allies to do the same.

The only success I've had with teching is by going blue flame hellions and 1-shotting 6 marines at a time, then going into banshees. So satisfying.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13086466*
> I think it might help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been getting only T opponents in my last 9 games or so. I've become somewhat of an expert at PvsT


You getting T a lot is perfectly plausible being in the 1 of 2 leagues with high Terran counts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13086608*
> You getting T a lot is perfectly plausible being in the 1 of 2 leagues with high Terran counts.


Never said it wasn't, but, getting so many Ts in a row is annoying even though it's free wins if I end up with a PvsT







Given, I just had a PvsT game in the bag, all I needed to do was move my immortals and take out his tanks then just march my army into his base but the game DC'd. Sad part is I was going to mass expand and planning to add on a lot more wrapgate, would've been fun to wrap in 20+ units at once







So much for the start of a new win streak :/


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13086513*
> I'm a huge fan of the guy who, when you ask, "what's the plan?" "Void rays". Every time, without fail. Then they actually don't build anything until they can build Void rays. Same goes for you Terrans and Zerg in 3v3 and 4v4. Battlecruisers and Broodlords are not effective at holding off a 6 minutes push. Because you are still 6 minutes away from making them. Rage. Just build 3 gates and start spamming zealots, I'll make some marines, and the Zerg can make some lings. A winner is you by just spamming tier 1 units and convincing your allies to do the same.
> 
> The only success I've had with teching is by going blue flame hellions and 1-shotting 6 marines at a time, then going into banshees. So satisfying.


Tech works if you divide tasks and keep the plan simple. With a P/T team it doesn't have to be any more complicated than T building ground units and P building air. T buys nothing but marine/tank/marauder and P buys nothing but void ray and phoenix. You end up with a giant deathball that kills everything


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13087076*
> Tech works if you divide tasks and keep the plan simple. With a P/T team it doesn't have to be any more complicated than T building ground units and P building air. T buys nothing but marine/tank/marauder and P buys nothing but void ray and phoenix. You end up with a giant deathball that kills everything


For sure, but this is Random 4v4 and 3v3. Have you ever tried to explain anything to anyone on a 4v4? All I get is "QUIT MAKING NOOBBIKES AND MAKE MARINES MOAR LOLOLOOLOL" as I burn up the opponents' mineral lines, or the ever classic "ORANGE, WHERE IS YOUR ANTIAIR NOOB" as I fly my Vikings around and they continue to make dem marauders. I like 4v4 random, but trying to do anything more cohesive than- everyone make marines, meet here at 6 minutes- is impossible sometimes.

I like that idea for 2v2 though, I'm gonna get my friend to try out this MM, Tank, Phoenix, VR mix. Sounds painful. He usually goes for a lot of sentries and stalkers and I get tanks and vikings, then he makes cool shapes with FF while I blow stuff up. FF balling together a 20 roach army and seeing them all blow up at once is hilarious.


----------



## slytown

What's the best build to get me out of bronze? I'm a Terran. I've been using the 3 RAX build and it got me back into the top 8 of my division, but I was wondering what other good builds there are for this level of play. I understand that the 3 RAX build works better in TvP and TvZ, so a suggestion just for TvT would be awesome as well.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211359

prolly the best thread on this month.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13090416*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211359
> 
> prolly the best thread on this month.


Idra as smeagle?









Anyone watching Steven's stream? His last 2 games were pretty epic ZvsZs and ZvsPs. Mass infestors+roaches, he had like 10 then kept on FGing the roaches, ZvsP, opponent fast exps and was on even bases, even at one point being up a gold base. Then he attacks with stalker+4-5 colossi, GG soon after the battle


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Idra as smeagle?









Anyone watching Steven's stream? His last 2 games were pretty epic ZvsZs and ZvsPs. Mass infestors+roaches, he had like 10 then kept on FGing the roaches, ZvsP, opponent fast exps and was on even bases, even at one point being up a gold base. Then he attacks with stalker+4-5 colossi, GG soon after the battle










Two busy pwning noobs with my bro xNJakeBake in 2v2s







. People rage so much harder in team games haha.

Is your internet working better? We should game later on today.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Two busy pwning noobs with my bro xNJakeBake in 2v2s







. People rage so much harder in team games haha.

Is your internet working better? We should game later on today.


lol, do they? You have to post a replay, I haven't played a team game in ages, find that it's harder to gauge my skills in them







It's a bit better now, trying to see if I can get it working up to speed, so, that it doesn't start lagging as I play a game


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I like that idea for 2v2 though, I'm gonna get my friend to try out this MM, Tank, Phoenix, VR mix. Sounds painful.


I've seen it and it works pretty well. It's so simple it's hard to mess up. T is the ground guy, protoss is the air guy. T builds infantry and tanks and hellions, P builds void ray and phoenix. If you need a quick and instantly comprehensible game plan that's it. "You ground, me air." That's about all there is to it.


----------



## ZainyAntics

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


just lost to a ******* drone rush.. are you kidding me? people who do that should have their account ******* banned


People that get drone rushed and lose shouldn't play ;]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Danm that ROOTcats for inventing drone rush.


----------



## DoomDash

NASL starts tonight IIRC.

and Grand Master should be live today! Live in SEA and China.


----------



## Plex

I talked to Tasteless on Skype yesterday. That makes me better than all of you, right?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


I talked to Tasteless on Skype yesterday. That makes me better than all of you, right?


I beat Artosis 1v1.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics;13093950*
> People that get drone rushed and lose shouldn't play ;]


Don't you think that's a bit harsh? It's like those people who say that loving to 6 pool, cannon rush, etc.... doesn't happen at the higher levels but the fact is, with good micro a 6 pool is hard to hold off as P/Z








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13095566*
> I talked to Tasteless on Skype yesterday. That makes me better than all of you, right?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13095813*
> I beat Artosis 1v1.


rofl @ both of ya, you could talk to any top BW/SCII player, doesn't change the fact that they are still human who just play BW/SCII for a job


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13096145*
> rofl @ both of ya, you could talk to any top BW/SCII player, doesn't change the fact that they are still human who just play BW/SCII for a job


"rofl" right back at you for not realizing our blatant care-free misdemeanor.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13096183*
> "rofl" right back at you for not realizing our blatant care-free misdemeanor.


rofl back at you again because you missed "







"


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13096381*
> rofl back at you again because you missed "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "


rofl back at you because you I took your rofl and put it in a rofl while I rofl'ed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13096409*
> rofl back at you because you I took your rofl and put it in a rofl while I rofl'ed.


I guess the only response would be: I heard you like rofls, so, I put a rofl with your rofl so that you can rofl as I rofl


----------



## Forcewater




----------



## BigFan

^^lol

Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211769
Awesome marine split @ 2:26 against July by MVP


----------



## DoomDash

32 kill banshee over 24 minutes in huk vs sjow! lol.


----------



## yks

Maybe good brain?


----------



## DoomDash

From Dreamhack live lol:


----------



## DoomDash

nooooooooooooooooooo dreamhack finals


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



white-ra almost took it!!!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


nooooooooooooooooooo dreamhack finals

white-ra almost took it!!!


Omg that was crazy.

Me (at work): "O-M-F-G!"
Coworder: "What?"
Me: "Uhh, *mumble mumble* financial report..."


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What exactly is this dreamhack thing


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What exactly is this dreamhack thing


Just a huge tournament for sc2 over in Sweden I believe.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

MC beats WhiteRa to win Dreamhack. Perhaps the Protoss players should have their own tournaments.


----------



## Perdition64

Just got 4-gate'd for the first time.









I was building spine crawlers when i scouted it to stop it, but alas, i was too slow. At least my average unspent resources was like 300 when the other dudes was 700..if i held off that 4-gate..yeah..


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Perdition64*


Just got 4-gate'd for the first time.









I was building spine crawlers when i scouted it to stop it, but alas, i was too slow. At least my average unspent resources was like 300 when the other dudes was 700..if i held off that 4-gate..yeah..


A 4-gate stockpiles minerals/gas so you can have an explosive amount of unit production right as all 4 gates are ready for 2 production cycles. So he was doing it right, sort of. Too bad on your spinecrawler timing, I always seem to have my 2nd bunker at 95% right when they push, resulting in my marines eating the full brunt of the attack. If you hold off a 4-gate push without losing a lot of workers/units a winrar will be you.


----------



## DoomDash

Hey that guy I beat is playing in NASL now!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


From Dreamhack live lol:





















Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hey that guy I beat is playing in NASL now!


Who? Sjartosis?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.


----------



## DoomDash

I wish jediwin was more active.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13105090*
> Hey that guy I beat is playing in NASL now!


Wonder why he didn't use 2 base colo VR build that he "never lost with" on kr ladder and which makes colossus so imba...

Fenix vs KiWiKaKi games are exactly the terran style I was talking about earlier. Really well played by Fenix.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13108593*
> I wish jediwin was more active.


I'm still around.








we should play - we haven't played forever


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13109697*
> I'm still around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we should play - we haven't played forever


I never see you on, but I suppose I'm partly to blame for odd hours.

Just mad cause you are my favorite practice partner.







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13108849*
> Fenix vs KiWiKaKi games are exactly the terran style I was talking about earlier. Really well played by Fenix.


sjow said the secret to beating Protoss is macro. I am pretty good at TvP still.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I never see you on, but I suppose I'm partly to blame for odd hours.

*Just mad cause you are my favorite practice partner.







.*

sjow said the secret to beating Protoss is macro. I am pretty good at TvP still.


and here I thought I was your favorite practice partner, for fun games that is









If anyone is interested in a *fun* game, I'm going on









Edit: New patch released? SCII is updating something ???


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13110054*
> and here I thought I was your favorite practice partner, for fun games that is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested in a *fun* game, I'm going on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: New patch released? SCII is updating something ???


You are my favorite fun partner. Just a patch fixing some bugs. I'll be on.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Is MC actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of forcefield, blink, and colossus. Has he ever tried playing another race?


----------



## DoomDash

Considering he has a 90% win rate vs Protoss as well, he must be pretty good.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You are my favorite fun partner. Just a patch fixing some bugs. I'll be on.


ah ok, it seemed odd since there were no patch notes, it was blank. Nice to know that at least someone enjoys my rather creative style of play









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is MC actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of forcefield, blink, and colossus. Has he ever tried playing another race?


I dunno, heard that he's awesome with ffing, etc.... Sounds to me like he knows how to play Protoss pretty well


----------



## ntherblast

Anyone wanna play some practise 1v1 to help me out? Add me please: RoRo #443


----------



## QuadDamage

How come you guys don't want to play when I'm 5 beers in with my pants off ready to bro out in game?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is MC actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of forcefield, blink, and colossus. Has he ever tried playing another race?


He's certainly better than Idra. That guy just abuses macro.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Is MC actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of forcefield, blink, and colossus. Has he ever tried playing another race?


Is MVP actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of stimmed rines, rauders, and medivacs. Has he ever tried playing another race?

Is JulyZerg actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of speedlings, banelings, and muta harass. Has he ever tried playing another race?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


Is MVP actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of stimmed rines, rauders, and medivacs. Has he ever tried playing another race?

Is JulyZerg actually a great player? His whole game seems to be based on abusing the hell out of speedlings, banelings, and muta harass. Has he ever tried playing another race?


Do you even know what the word "abusing" means in the context of gaming?


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Do you even know what the word "abusing" means in the context of gaming?


Is this a serious question or are you just trolling? I've probably been gaming longer than you've been alive, and I've been playing SC since about 97. Broke 3000 Master as Terran before the end of the last season, you?

What makes you think that FF wasn't intended to be used the way it is now? Furthermore, do you think that speed banelings were supposed to be as effective as they are? The point is that ff, Collo and blink are part of how Protoss plays. If you can call that "abuse" then I am open to call other intended mechanics as "abused" as well.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


Is this a serious question or are you just trolling? I've probably been gaming longer than you've been alive, and I've been playing SC since about 97. Broke 3000 Master as Terran before the end of the last season, you?


That's swell and all, but you act like the word "abusing" means the same thing as "using". It doesn't, and I think you know that. I asked a simple question and you replied with sarcasm. So who is the troll here? Kinda looks like you are.


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


How come you guys don't want to play when I'm 5 beers in with my pants off ready to bro out in game?


Frealz br0.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


That's swell and all, but you act like the word "abusing" means the same thing as "using". It doesn't, and I think you know that. I asked a simple question and you replied with sarcasm. So who is the troll here? Kinda looks like you are.


And a Protoss using Blink or Collo is "abusing?" Come on now, man. How is that any different? Who determines when the line is crossed between "using" and "abusing?" My original point was that someone who hates Terran could just as easily claim that stim is abused. Someone who hates Zerg could just as easily claim that speed blings are abused.


----------



## yks

Plex, just don't listen to Lucas when it comes to balance discussion, he likes to troll/complain about anything that's not pro-zerg and is in silver.


----------



## Lazorbeam

No such thing as "abusing" units, unless said unit is unintentionally broken/bugged. See floating drone bug in sc1.

MC's not a better player, he just uses skill unlike his opponents.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Lazorbeam

Pretty hilarious match doom!


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykdeXkLBNM


Funny replay, reminds me of that replay that Husky I believe recorded on Shaukras where he was talking about how awesome ravens are against mutas with their missiles, etc....









^^It was over, doom was getting another banshee, then all he had to do was target the workers and the spore, GG


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RealEyes*


Frealz br0.


Yeah u want to chill?


----------



## Allenssmart

omg i just tried the iechoic build for tvt. simply orgasmic. bye tank viking!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


omg i just tried the iechoic build for tvt. simply orgasmic. bye tank viking!


Yeah it's pretty good but if I see it I usually just go thor marauder and win before BC's. I have never opened with it, but I have transitioned into when I saw a very marine heavy build.

FINALLY in contact with LZgamer. Looks like its on next week. Will try and stream.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


FINALLY in contact with LZgamer. Looks like its on next week. Will try and stream.


Nice









Just won a ZvsP, went for mass bases, 7 to be exact








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ackwater-gulch
Rofl @ saturation early on


----------



## Allenssmart

anyone know why the nasl game isn't streaming today. it was yesterday. 6pm pst = 9 pm est, am i right?


----------



## weipim

afk for a long time, kinda think want to get back


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13116477*
> anyone know why the nasl game isn't streaming today. it was yesterday. 6pm pst = 9 pm est, am i right?


Delayed from what I hear


----------



## AblueXKRS

Got the Outmatched against Insane cheevo today. Much aggro and brick crapping happened during that two hour cheesefest.

Twilight fortress, cannoned the crap out of my ramp and massed void rays. At one point I had 62 of them. Lost about two dozen to effin fungals. Still won, though.

*passes out*


----------



## yks

SC Days like last night are best


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


omg i just tried the iechoic build for tvt. simply orgasmic. bye tank viking!


That's what I've been playing in TvT too, Thors absolutely ruin my day until you get BCs, but if your first hellion drop goes well, you should put him behind. I also ran into a game against mass marine+raven, the marines ate through the hellions fast enough that they didn't make much of a dent, and banshees/vikings disintegrate immediately upon being within 5 range of a marine ball.

I usually expand once I kill his mobile army (whatever he sends into the field) and then harass with hellion drops to keep him in his base and add on a fusion core, then show up with 2 BCs and a lot of vikings and hellions and whatever banshees I have left as I go to take my third.

I see now why people complain about hellions. At the 6-7 minute mark you get to scout the entire base, kill 6+ workers and pull someone's army back all for 300 minerals, which you would have lost anyways if you scanned rather than MULEd.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally some good luck:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...es#filter=solo


----------



## KittensMewMew

Nice streak! I did the same 2 days ago, got 7 in a row!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'll try the link again in a while, it's broken atm; "Encountered a Bug" it says.

How does the ranking system work now? How do people with just a few wins have so many points?

BTW, if anyone is up for a game, msg me in game. I'll be in the OCN channel idle while I work.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'll try the link again in a while, it's broken atm; "Encountered a Bug" it says.

How does the ranking system work now? How do people with just a few wins have so many points?

BTW, if anyone is up for a game, msg me in game. I'll be in the OCN channel idle while I work.


It depends on who you're playing- where your MMR sits compared to your rank. I have 17 wins and 333 points (http://sc2ranks.com/us/1726620/KittenMewMew) and sit at rank 3 as compared to others in my division (http://sc2ranks.com/div/80810/division-valkyrie-whiskey) with 20+ wins and fewer points. I've noticed I've been playing against a lot of platinum players, and have been winning more points for fewer games. If you're playing against people who are ranked higher than you (whether it says favoured or not) you win more points. Also, If you have a good W/L ratio, you will be gaining points much faster than losing. As far as I know, points don't mean much outside Masters and Diamond, where you should be normalizing to your skill level and have a 50/50 W/L ratio at whatever rank that is, and your points just go up slowly due to inflation from bonus pool until you have a sudden breakthrough and win a bunch of games and shoot up the ladder.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't even know how to view my loses and kd ratio.


----------



## DoomDash

You can't if you're in Diamond or lower.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I don't even know how to view my loses and kd ratio.


You can use sc2gears to save all your ladder replays and then see your w/l ratio and other stats.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I just got into Platinum! Yay!


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13125891*
> I just got into Platinum! Yay!


Congrats! Keep it up


----------



## DoomDash

lol watching idra try to get battle.net to work.

bnet so good you wont need lan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13124517*
> You can't if you're in Diamond or lower.


I hate this change, I think it's a bad one. I can understand wanting people to play more but this change really puts me off. I would rather have the option to show losses(checkbox) and decide what I want to do








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13125891*
> I just got into Platinum! Yay!


Congrats!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13127198*
> lol watching idra try to get battle.net to work.
> 
> bnet so good you wont need lan.


Too bad lan wasn't included, wonder if they might in a future patch once sales settle down









Interesting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210057
Love the marine splitting one








Scratch that, they are all just awesome especially the 5 siege tanks+ medivacs against a large Z army


----------



## Sushimaster

Is the sli issue got fixed? i want to get another 560 ti but scared it would be waste


----------



## slytown

Did I just beat a cheater? Those bunkers look kinda funny...










Edit: NVM. He researched neosteel. I didn't see.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Insane AI really is a cheater. 1100 APM during a battle. o_0


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn*


Insane AI really is a cheater. 1100 APM during a battle. o_0











nope, they might get more minerals per worker, but, they aren't cheaters otherwise. 1100 APM is due to them microing each unit separately









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Why does this keep happening every time I finish a game?



















hmm, I've had that happen once I believe and it hasn't happened since. Has it been happening for long? Have you tried reinstalling?


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Lazorbeam

Help.

I feel that I'm getting back into my groove after 75 games or so. I'm starting to remember my old strategies and ways of thinking, all the while re-inventing myself to some degree. In the past few days, I've gone 90% against protoss, ~65% against zerg but terran's been a huge problem. I just don't feel as though I'm following a logical course of action against this race. It's like I'm massing units, expanding and whatever without a real goal or strategy. This is fine, but I'd like to add alternative/parallel strategies to my game against terran. Any advice? Top 8 masters league is anyone's wondering.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13135368*
> Help.
> 
> I feel that I'm getting back into my groove after 75 games or so. I'm starting to remember my old strategies and ways of thinking, all the while re-inventing myself to some degree. In the past few days, I've gone 90% against protoss, ~65% against zerg but terran's been a huge problem. I just don't feel as though I'm following a logical course of action against this race. It's like I'm massing units, expanding and whatever without a real goal or strategy. This is fine, but I'd like to add alternative/parallel strategies to my game against terran. Any advice? Top 8 masters league is anyone's wondering.


Great overview:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196385

For opening I personally like "EU style" 3 gate robo with one gas which you can find in most of white-ra's PvT's:
http://www.white-ra.com/ru/media/replays/category/replay-packs

It looks like 1 gate FE or 4 gate for the terran and you can easily change into that if you want. On close air positions (metal, scrap) fast warp-prism harass can be pretty effective.

Late game you have a choice of colossi+blink+HT(white-ra), colossi+blink+upgrades(Tyler), colossi+DT(see Naniwa vs SelecT MLG games) or colossi+phoenix(iNcontrol).


----------



## DoomDash

White-ra's PvT is beastly. If you need a practice partner my TvP is strong.


----------



## DoomDash

@#$*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go 0-3, be very close to winning game 4, DISCONNECT.


----------



## HarrisLam

hey guys!!
im a new member here
I also play a little bit of starcraft, though im not a frequent player due to massive working hours and real life stuff

its my first and probably the last RTS I play seriously in, worked my way from bronze to gold, currently still in Gold 1v1 in SEA but i dont think im still with the league skill-wise

nice to meet you


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;13138625*
> hey guys!!
> im a new member here
> I also play a little bit of starcraft, though im not a frequent player due to massive working hours and real life stuff
> 
> its my first and probably the last RTS I play seriously in, worked my way from bronze to gold, currently still in Gold 1v1 in SEA but i dont think im still with the league skill-wise
> 
> nice to meet you


Nice to meet you.

5th game, disconnect #2. Guess I'm not laddering anymore today for awhile. 0-5. ****.


----------



## HarrisLam

unlucky you
well, ever since season 2 i think i've been keeping my w:l ratio pretty damn low

i dont know why, but losing games after games in SC is particularly frustrating, i also can't fall asleep if i SC just before sleep, especially long games

these reasons are keeping me from playing continuously

in season 1 when i got promoted to gold i was like dang i dont want that, i wasn't really prepared (i stayed in bronze for at least 220 games but only like 30 games in silver), but it turned out to be ok

but now its either me losing my touch or other ppl in gold are improving, i can't seem to win a single even match game

just depressing you know


----------



## DoomDash

I'm still below 1:1, lots of us are man.


----------



## Perdition64

god, need to watch that film again.


----------



## poroboszcz

Omg White-ra streaming!11

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/White-Ra

Love his commentary.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm watching it too.

edit, ravens, so op. nerf terran now blizzard.

How can whitera go FE vs zerg and not wall of anything and still win with mass phoenix...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm still below 1:1, lots of us are man.











OMG... that's awesome.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'm watching it too.

edit, ravens, so op. nerf terran now blizzard.

How can whitera go FE vs zerg and not wall of anything and still win with mass phoenix...


Special tactics, ofc. And now he told some guy he had 4 probes on gas to be fair. Best stream ever.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I cannot believe he just won that pvp.

oh snap empire kas vs ra


----------



## poroboszcz

Friday night, EU server, high diamond level, ladder game.


----------



## Sainesk

took me insane gosu and a few more games to finally realize why I love coop so much...


----------



## BigFan

Interesting thread on TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=1


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DoomDash

I just watched huk lose PvP vs MVP, then PvZ vs MVP on ladder! The PvZ game was insane MVP is really good.


----------



## Allenssmart

mid-high diamond here, how da f do u counter infestors in tvz since patch 1.30. marine tank doesn't work anymore...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


mid-high diamond here, how da f do u counter infestors in tvz since patch 1.30. marine tank doesn't work anymore...


I guess ghosts be infestors are really fast + burrow so they are a real *****. I think you just need to keep your marines closer to your tanks. More bull**** preparation Terran needs to do than ever. As if it wasn't already enough.

Buff Z for ZvP, **** over Terran more.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Their entire balance scheme is screwed up atm in my say so.

Man.. I suck at macro, and I've been playing macro style protoss since gold.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Is there something I can do to increase my APM? I know it sounds ridiculous, and I know that APM isn't a measure of skill, but I feel like I've gotten to the point where I know what I need to be doing, I just don't have the time in between managing units.

For example, when I do an early 3 hellion drop against protoss, I almost always kill a lot of probes by directing my hellions into good spots for the 20 seconds or so I'm doing damage, but when I go back to my base I always have a surplus of money, units not being made etc etc. I just don't have time to get a maximum amount of kills while managing my base. Should I let off the hellion management? Should I queue units and depots just prior to dropping? Neither sound optimal, so I'd like to practice being able to do both actions at once. What is spamming, and does it actually help? I know there are custom maps, can anyone point me in the right direction?

In other news, my 2v2 partner and I got fed up with losing. So he now goes 4-gate, and I go 5rax marine and push into their base at 6:30. Feels good man.


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm @ home, so my rig is at school. But I do have some parts at home, I'm wondering if it could run SC2 half decently at least.

AMD Phenom II X4 955
Integrated 4250 ATI gpu I believe
~2GB DDR2 I think


----------



## yellowtoblerone

epic PVZ hasuobs vs morrow atm


----------



## Ikthus

Man I got into Masters right before my summer job started two weeks ago so I didn't have much time to play since. Finally did some laddering last night and lost 9 in a row


----------



## DoomDash

Only SlayerS_Boxer


----------



## ThumperSD

I love me some Day9 & Wheat collabo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I'm @ home, so my rig is at school. But I do have some parts at home, I'm wondering if it could run SC2 half decently at least.

AMD Phenom II X4 955
Integrated 4250 ATI gpu I believe
~2GB DDR2 I think


Probably on low-medium settings and a low resolution


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Only SlayerS_Boxer



















lol, nice idea?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Is there something I can do to increase my APM? I know it sounds ridiculous, and I know that APM isn't a measure of skill, but I feel like I've gotten to the point where I know what I need to be doing, I just don't have the time in between managing units.

For example, when I do an early 3 hellion drop against protoss, I almost always kill a lot of probes by directing my hellions into good spots for the 20 seconds or so I'm doing damage, but when I go back to my base I always have a surplus of money, units not being made etc etc. I just don't have time to get a maximum amount of kills while managing my base. Should I let off the hellion management? Should I queue units and depots just prior to dropping? Neither sound optimal, so I'd like to practice being able to do both actions at once. What is spamming, and does it actually help? I know there are custom maps, can anyone point me in the right direction?

In other news, my 2v2 partner and I got fed up with losing. So he now goes 4-gate, and I go 5rax marine and push into their base at 6:30. Feels good man.


There was a custom where you can practice increasing your APM I believe, but, don't know the name. With the hellion harass, as you are about to do the drop to harass, get some SCVs, make depots then make the drop and use control keys to keep making units. As long as the drop takes out a lot of workers, it's worth it









@Ruckol1 You should be able to run it, low on everything









Edit: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant
ZvsZ I played 2 nights back, it was all I needed to be convinced that hydras are good, not that I thought they were horrible or anything









Edit2: Idra streaming for anyone interested: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IdrA
Started a ZvsP about 2-3 min ago now









Edit3: Guy tried a cannon block/rush, he just quit XD


----------



## Ruckol1

The monitor is 1440x900 I believe.

I'm pretty sure that gpu uses shared memory.. I think? If so maybe I should just grab a GT 240 or something.


----------



## ThumperSD

I dont think you should have any problems running SC2 then on low-medium settings


----------



## BigFan

Idra against Rain atm, should be funny







Rain is protoss though







Did he change race or maybe it's not him, probably a copycat









Edit: rofl, idra just bm'd him. He won the last game because Rain gg'd but Rain paused by accident(according to him?) and as a result, Idra must've left before Rain did causing a loss


----------



## Forcewater

I'm currently trying to rework my mouse accuracy and control, since I have a wrist injury. Any advice?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I'm currently trying to work on my mouse accuracy and control, but I'm not sure how to go about improving. I try to use the bone sticking out of my wrist as a pivot, as many a guide says, yet I find my hand naturally slipping out of that position and my shoulder hurting. I have small hands, and I think that my mouse is a little too big (Logitech MX518), however I can easily slip my hand down the mouse a little while keeping it comfortable. Any advice or tips, anyone?










Are you playing on EU? Join overclock.net channel (I'm the only person there







) or add me so we can have some practice games.

There's a custom map called Reflex for improving mouse accuracy and reaction time. For grip just use whatever feels most comfortable to you.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## BigFan

Such a bad night for laddering, lost ZvsP, 2 PvsTs and another I can't remember, 2-4 record :/ I guess its to be expected when you just keep droning only making units a little late and you don't go colossi but mass zealots with constant harass against an MMM group


----------



## yks

playing w/ jedi and doom makes people on the ladder look like jokes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13157090*
> playing w/ jedi and doom makes people on the ladder look like jokes.


oh, you must mean the 6 pooler(doom) and 4 gater(jedi). Yep, they do make others look like noobs









Edit: Found this thread, thought you'll like it doom: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=212967


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I commented in the thread BigFan, but thanks anyway + rep.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone know who combatex is?

LOL so BM!

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=1554.0


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I commented in the thread BigFan, but thanks anyway + rep.


oh, oops









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone know who combatex is?

LOL so BM!

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/in...p?topic=1554.0


nope, however, this thread has some BMs or similar conversions in it that seem to match that:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...currentpage=19

Edit: Looking over some of my PvsT loses from yesterday, I never realized how much marines+medivacs with stim mow down zealots, etc.... I knew they actually did well, rofl, but, no marines lost







My opponent had like 24-30 marines, 5-6 medivacs, 2 thors and 2 battlecrusiers. I decided to skip colossi for whatever reason and go for mass chargelots with 10+ stalkers and 2-3 immortals. Got the stalkers to target the battlecruisers first then the zealots to engage the marines. I engaged at a choke which was my fault and he stimmed and the end result was me losing all my chargelots and he lost no marines at all XD To the P players out there, other than colossi/hts, are there other ways of dealing with mass marines? I'm guessing I should've ignored bc's and went for the marines first since I had +2 shield and battlecrusiers wouldn't have been that bad to take out afterwards, maybe target the medivacs with the stalkers or something. There was a thread in the strategy section on TL talking about going mass marines off 11 rax after 1 rax FE start then constantly being aggressive, sounds pretty plausible


----------



## DoomDash

I went mass marine, mass orbital vs yellowolbertone yesterday ^_^. Zealots just evaporate.


----------



## Forcewater

WDIT: Nevermind, not working


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I went mass marine, mass orbital vs yellowolbertone yesterday ^_^. Zealots just evaporate.


It's sad but I guess it makes sense now why most Protoss are saying that colossi are the way to go. Given I've had luck with chargelots, however, they were supported by colossi in those cases


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


It's sad but I guess it makes sense now why most Protoss are saying that colossi are the way to go. Given I've had luck with chargelots, however, they were supported by colossi in those cases











Charge lots are really really good vs MM with an equal marine to marauder ratio, especially if you stay ahead with upgrades and use guardian shields.


----------



## DoomDash

TSL

No more Zergs lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Charge lots are really really good vs MM with an equal marine to marauder ratio, especially if you stay ahead with upgrades and use guardian shields.


I didn't have any sentries there, he had no marauders and I engaged at a choke because I didn't want him to push into my exp on meta, so, it was a bad mistake on my part. I was 2/0/1 going for 2/0/2, he was 2/2 going for 3/2 or 2/3









Edit: This thread over at TL, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...currentpage=32 is hilarious. I think this one takes the cake:
A: "has left the *gmae*!"
B: "?"
A: "****."


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I didn't have any sentries there, he had no marauders and I engaged at a choke because I didn't want him to push into my exp on meta, so, it was a bad mistake on my part. I was 2/0/1 going for 2/0/2, he was 2/2 going for 3/2 or 2/3










Wait, what? You were 2-0-1? You got ******* shields vs a Terran? Also you got attack vs a bio army before armor!?!?!? No wonder you lost.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I didn't have any sentries there, he had no marauders and I engaged at a choke because I didn't want him to push into my exp on meta, so, it was a bad mistake on my part. I was 2/0/1 going for 2/0/2, he was 2/2 going for 3/2 or 2/3










try and get armor upgrades if you're going against MM. Combined with guardian shield, marines will do nothing to you- if you were 0/2/1 they would be hitting for 3shield/2life dmg with guardian shield and terran weapon upgrades come into play. When I practice against my protoss friend, the difference between him going for armor and him going for weapons is pretty drastic.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wait, what? You were 2-0-1? You got ******* shields vs a Terran? Also you got attack vs a bio army before armor!?!?!? No wonder you lost.


lol, well I was almost 2/0/2







I was looking at it in terms of extra damage from zealots since they would do 1 extra damage per attack for 2 additional damage(similar line of thinking for Z). Don't zealots also have more shields than hp so getting shields first would be beneficial for a mass chargelot army? Wouldn't it also help immortals due to the marines being their counter?








The main reason I lost was that I engaged at a choke so most of my zealots ran around, targetted the 2 bcs with stalkers instead of concentrating on the marines first and my opponent outmacroed me badly throughout the game(had 3-4 exps to my puny 2 and kept harassing my base and putting up the sensor towers to know my movement). after looking at the replay, I just realized that he can't see observers using the sensor towers so that would've helped if I knew XD

Edit: Oh I see ^^ Haven't been relying on sentries in my PvsTs games but I probably should


----------



## DoomDash

Zealots have more HP than armor, not only that but one EMP and that shield upgrade is useless. Always go armor first vs bio. Also sentries are a must for FF splitting armies and GS.


----------



## slytown

I was just thinking of uses for floating Factory/RAX. Is there a legitimate situation to hide your army with a floating structure instead of using it to scout? Like, are there situations in certain match-ups where a slow army would benefit? Maybe to hide a ghost or two within your MM ball?


----------



## DoomDash

to prevent feedback I guess, but might as well just keep it in a low energy medivac.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Wow its been so long since I played this...

If I have multiple bases (Nexus etc)
bound to one key (usually 5)
how do I cycle through them.
I thought you could press 5 then Tab to the other base...


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski;13166374*
> Wow its been so long since I played this...
> 
> If I have multiple bases (Nexus etc)
> bound to one key (usually 5)
> how do I cycle through them.
> I thought you could press 5 then Tab to the other base...


Tab is for cycling through different types of units in a group. I.E. a MMM ball would cycle through marines, marauders, and medivacs, but not select each one individually.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski;13166374*
> Wow its been so long since I played this...
> 
> If I have multiple bases (Nexus etc)
> bound to one key (usually 5)
> how do I cycle through them.
> I thought you could press 5 then Tab to the other base...


Nope. But what you can do, is reassign your tild key like I did to "Base view" in the hotkey setup. When you hit menu, go to hotkeys, then go to "global", then go to "camera", and scroll down to the short cut key thats labeled "Base view". I changed mine to ~, so this way you can have all your Nexus / Command Centers / Hatches on one hot key, and you can cycle through them with this.


----------



## deanlewandowski

ok yeah i guess tab is to cycle through groups and backspace is to view the other base etc if you have more than one in that group


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski;13166414*
> ok yeah i guess tab is to cycle through groups and backspace is to view the other base etc if you have more than one in that group


That's what my post is saying, I changed backspace to ~ so its close to all your normal keys.


----------



## Forcewater

#


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13166094*
> Zealots have more HP than armor, not only that but one EMP and that shield upgrade is useless. Always go armor first vs bio. Also sentries are a must for FF splitting armies and GS.


I see, good point. Haven't had many PvsT where my opponent tries to EMP my units, but, you are correct. I think armor would've been a better idea there, although I'll still be going for attack first against Z to two shot lings


----------



## deanlewandowski

If anyone on the NA servers is looking for a Bronze level player to mess around with/ give some pointers feel free to add me

Massiv #955

Getting back into playing after being away a few months


----------



## DoomDash

vs Z is different.

NASL game 1:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Haha Protoss so ******* OP vs Zerg. Can't wait to see them nerfed. Spine build time is BULL****.


----------



## love9sick

Never noticed this thread and that is kind of weird considering how much of a SC2 fan I am. Strategy? that is easy. To win every time simply choose Terran, build lots of barracks, and mamamamamamaamamamamamamamamama on the keyboard. Then win lol. Yea yea, I'm a whiny protoss player. Any Husky fans here?

I haven't played in a while and have dropped down to gold league 1v1.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13167228*
> Never noticed this thread and that is kind of weird considering how much of a SC2 fan I am. Strategy? that is easy. To win every time simply choose Terran, build lots of barracks, and mamamamamamaamamamamamamamamama on the keyboard. Then win lol. Yea yea, I'm a whiny protoss player. Any Husky fans here?
> 
> I haven't played in a while and have dropped down to gold league 1v1.


Don't worry there are very few Terrans above gold level, because they are much harder to play once you figure out how to beat bio.

I am a Huskiter.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13167228*
> To win every time simply choose Terran, build lots of barracks, and mamamamamamaamamamamamamamamama on the keyboard.


or just 4warpgate









I think i'm switching to Z once I finish these race a.i. achievs, knowing how good I am with that race - Bronze league here I come!


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13167335*
> or just 4warpgate


I have marines and marauders near my ramp before warp gate tech is even finished. As far as I am concerned in those cases you either force field the ramp just in time or GG out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13167279*
> Don't worry there are very few Terrans above gold level, because they are much harder to play once you figure out how to beat bio.
> 
> I am a Huskiter.


With colossi or storm. That is assuming I stopped the early pressure. I agree, I mean if they don't rush marauder and marine I am fine. If they do I either force field them or lose most of the time. It is the early game against Terran that annoys me.


----------



## DoomDash

You'll figure out how to hold of early Terran pressure if you just practice. Jediwin does 1 gate expans vs me and I can't really punish him for it ( both masters ). Just takes practice and the right build / timings.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski;13167162*
> If anyone on the NA servers is looking for a Bronze level player to mess around with/ give some pointers feel free to add me
> 
> Massiv #955
> 
> Getting back into playing after being away a few months


Not bronze, but I'll play xNInferNO #948.
Quote:


> You'll figure out how to hold of early Terran pressure if you just practice. Jediwin does 1 gate expans vs me and I can't really punish him for it ( both masters ). Just takes practice and the right build / timings.


1 Gate expo << Reapers? 2 rax no add ons? 3 rax one add on? 1 gate FE only works if they are teching to cloaked banshees or FE or a really big map.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.white-ra.com/ru/media/replays/item/ra-special-tactics-1?category_id=35

Awesome replay pack of White-Ra from today's stream, where he's doing whatever special tactics people on chat asked him to try. Includes 12 game winning streak with Carriers, DT+warp prism action and... archon drops.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13167473*
> Not bronze, but I'll play xNInferNO #948.
> 
> 1 Gate expo << Reapers? 2 rax no add ons? 3 rax one add on? 1 gate FE only works if they are teching to cloaked banshees or FE or a really big map.


I've done reapers. Things have changed with stim delay.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

^^ ROFL.
Gotta love BW vs. SCII thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=213083&currentpage=21


----------



## Sainesk

^lols









also that SlayersBoxer pic you posted earlier:


----------



## DoomDash

NASL stream laggy for everyone else? Also PainUser vs Cloud was on and all of a sudden we are on Sen vs Zenio!?!? What's going on?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The only thing OP about P is ranged col. Everything else is underpowered.


----------



## godofdeath

played the game with a mac/windows
graphics on low is utter krappppppppppppp
looked o sooooooooo bad


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13168450*
> The only thing OP about P is ranged col. Everything else is underpowered.


I don't know if I agree with this. Warp Gates are just so powerful in general, even if the units seem weak. I've seen Zerg on more base lose to pure stalker armies so many times in the GSL it's not even funny. I think people are proving it's not just colossi making Protoss so damn powerful.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13167600*
> I've done reapers. Things have changed with stim delay.


Going heavy rauders with a timing push is really hard to stop with P unless you blindly go voids imo. (After a 2 rax expo into 3/4 rax)

Doom you really going to post a pvz comic in favor of Z? Have you seen infestor drop bane play? It's lol imba imo. Only way to counter it is with stargate which sets P back 40 food, and if you lose your sentries there is no amount of micro to save you.


----------



## ThumperSD

I guess there's mixed opinions on stalkers. Most people seem to think they arent cost effective. Something Ive heard a lot complain about. I always thought the stalkers was balanced though. Theyre just supposed to be micro'd.

I hear people complaining about zealots and FF being OP way more than stalkers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;13169310*
> I guess there's mixed opinions on stalkers. Most people seem to think they arent cost effective. Something Ive heard a lot complain about. I always thought the stalkers was balanced though. Theyre just supposed to be micro'd.
> 
> I hear people complaining about zealots and FF being OP way more than stalkers.


I think blink stalkers have the opportunity to be considered OP if you can micro them well, as in blink back injured then attack again. There was a thread on TL a while back talking about this, was an interesting read


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13169003*
> Going heavy rauders with a timing push is really hard to stop with P unless you blindly go voids imo. (After a 2 rax expo into 3/4 rax)
> 
> Doom you really going to post a pvz comic in favor of Z? Have you seen infestor drop bane play? It's lol imba imo. Only way to counter it is with stargate which sets P back 40 food, and if you lose your sentries there is no amount of micro to save you.


Yeah I've seen it, and Sheth makes it look really good. I think the problem in the match up is the unpredictability / options / timings that Protoss has though. Chrono boost makes for so many different types of game play / timings, which I don't think Zerg will ever be able to consistently counter / predict / scout.

Look at idra vs socke game 1. Basically an unscoutable fake FE from Socke that was canceled at the last second, and idra scouted it literally right away. He canceled his 3rd, threw down 4-5 spines, and started nothing but unit production and still couldn't hold it off. Then you got all these really strong stargate openers, other all ins, ect ect. Protoss vs Zerg is kind of like Terran vs Zerg except these sick timings / all ins / stargate builds are much easier / better to transition out of than the Terran versions. If you don't do that much damage you generally fine and can just throw down an expo and turtle till max.

I don't really play Z or P much so it's just my observer point of view, no fact or even bias behind it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't know if I agree with this. Warp Gates are just so powerful in general, even if the units seem weak. I've seen Zerg on more base lose to pure stalker armies so many times in the GSL it's not even funny. I think people are proving it's not just colossi making Protoss so damn powerful.


Warp Gates are powerful and I can see the more bases argument but stalkers can be rather weak against mass slings then add in mutas and they are history. This is mostly from my experience at my level. If my opponent goes for stalkers, I'll be going for slings+mutas which dominate them. Given if you have zealots, then at least the stalkers have a chance to take down the mutas instead of focusing on slings. I think blink stalkers can be quite deadly if you can micro them which isn't exactly difficult IMO.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I've seen it, and Sheth makes it look really good. I think the problem in the match up is the unpredictability / options / timings that Protoss has though. Chrono boost makes for so many different types of game play / timings, which I don't think Zerg will ever be able to consistently counter / predict / scout.

Look at idra vs socke game 1. Basically an unscoutable fake FE from Socke that was canceled at the last second, and idra scouted it literally right away. He canceled his 3rd, threw down 4-5 spines, and started nothing but unit production and still couldn't hold it off. Then you got all these really strong stargate openers, other all ins, ect ect. Protoss vs Zerg is kind of like Terran vs Zerg except these sick timings / all ins / stargate builds are much easier / better to transition out of than the Terran versions. *If you don't do that much damage you generally fine and can just throw down an expo and turtle till max. *

I don't really play Z or P much so it's just my observer point of view, no fact or even bias behind it.


I think the unpredictability of the matchup is great. Personally, I think that colossi can be quite OP when you get several, however, I think as Zerg, you should be harassing the P player and considering the production capabilities, doing sling runbys or muta harass while teching up+upgrading should help in the long run and help prevent the deathball from forming. It's true that certain P units can be powerful early on(VRs before lair tech so only queens/spores to defend, etc...) but I think overall PvsZ is somewhat balanced. Corruptors take down colossi pretty fast and then you can transition into BLs using them if you have some left, so, it's not like you are getting a useless unit








I disagree with your statement though. WGs might be awesome for quick reinforcements but I don't believe you can just turtle hardcore after a major failed battle unless you are talking about mass cannons or something while you recover. Same goes if you are T/Z and you lose a major battle, depending on how much you lost and your opponent lost, it could be GG because it can be hard to come back from barely having any units. It also doesn't help if your opponent is a Zerg who has kept up with his injections because he'll be able to flood you with units








Given, you can cb your WGs and depending on how many you have, you can probably get some fast reinforcement and hold off any counter attack but meh I haven't had much luck after losing major battles :/

Interesting night, went on a tilt then on a winning streak atm, 4-3








The games were bizzare though:
New strat? - http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...plateau#rd:dna (an interesting, quick game, opponent's strat almost worked







)
Why, oh why? - http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant(a mystery indeed)
PvsZ on shakuras, interesting match due to the bad lag early on(reason for ddddd) then what my opponent went for. Gotta capitalize on mistakes(







) - http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...akuras-plateau

Thought I'll also add a replay where I lost, since, I usually post wins. This one is a TvsP on XC that I played earlier on tonight. I believe my opponent tried to 4 gate and messed it up or something. Either way, I'm not sure how I survived as much as I did: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...elnaga-caverns

Enjoy


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Can't win a pvp for the life of me now. Trying to make things work without 4 gating or my normal pvp build. Doesn't work when you're not whitera.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Can't win a pvp for the life of me now. Trying to make things work without 4 gating or my normal pvp build. Doesn't work when you're not whitera.


Try 3 stalker opening with gas steal into 4 gate of your own. Very easy to react with this build and you can check KiWiKaKi's mlg dallas PvP replays for exact BO.

You should easily defend a 4 gate and end up with 3-5 more probes and two assimilators.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I see, good point. Haven't had many PvsT where my opponent tries to EMP my units, but, you are correct. I think armor would've been a better idea there, although I'll still be going for attack first against Z to two shot lings










Reason armor first is better is that zealot base armor is 1. By upgrading armor, you're further reducing damage by 20%, rather than 16.7% with shields (vs marines, that is). This is even more beneficial with guardian shield.

Second, shields take 100% damage vs all attacks, and so they are depleted faster than actual health in most circumstances.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Can't win a pvp for the life of me now. Trying to make things work without 4 gating or my normal pvp build. Doesn't work when you're not whitera.


If your opponent is 4 gating, I find that if I don't 4 gate, the chance of losing are very high. Given, I've played opponents that haven't 4 gated so that was nice









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Reason armor first is better is that zealot base armor is 1. By upgrading armor, you're further reducing damage by 20%, rather than 16.7% with shields (vs marines, that is). This is even more beneficial with guardian shield.

Second, shields take 100% damage vs all attacks, and so they are depleted faster than actual health in most circumstances.


100% damage even with upgrades?







I do see your point overall though, thanks. I just assumed shields were similar to armor


----------



## DoomDash

I finally played against my first Spanishiwa style Zerg. It was crazy and I got my ass kicked. Mass spines / lings / queens transfusion into infestor ultra mass nydus worms.


----------



## onoz

Guys! I'm seriously trying to get out of bronze! I've won like 6 games in a row, lost 1, won 2 more. Most (if not all) were favored for the other side, but I'm still not getting promoted.









What do I have to do? My friends say "just concentrate on winning" but how many times do I have to win?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


Guys! I'm seriously trying to get out of bronze! I've won like 6 games in a row, lost 1, won 2 more. Most (if not all) were favored for the other side, but I'm still not getting promoted.









What do I have to do? My friends say "just concentrate on winning" but how many times do I have to win?


Depends how many times you lost before that. I am in plat now, was in Bronze about a month ago I think.

Watch replays, and follow one build style until your gold, what race are you? Work on fine tuning that build, droning up.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


Guys! I'm seriously trying to get out of bronze! I've won like 6 games in a row, lost 1, won 2 more. Most (if not all) were favored for the other side, but I'm still not getting promoted.









What do I have to do? My friends say "just concentrate on winning" but how many times do I have to win?


You will not get promoted until your hidden MMR rating is high enough. When you deserve it you will be promoted.

I wrote a little TvT build of mine for any Terran players on the forum. Just my own spin on TvT.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/in...p?topic=1567.0


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


*Depends how many times you lost before that.* I am in plat now, was in Bronze about a month ago I think.

*Watch replays, and follow one build style until your gold, what race are you?* Work on fine tuning that build, droning up.


I've only played somewhere around 15 games this season (no more than 20 for sure), and I've won 12. I'm protoss right now. Any replays you can recommend?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You will not get promoted until your hidden *MMR rating is high enough*. When you deserve it you will be promoted.

I wrote a little TvT build of mine for any Terran players on the forum. Just my own spin on TvT.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/in...p?topic=1567.0


What's MMR rating? Is that the point system they got going?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


What's MMR rating? Is that the point system they got going?



http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2112234276


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2112234276


Thanks. +Rep. (I googled it, but couldn't find anything.)


----------



## DoomDash

White-ra is now tied for favorite streamer along with qxc.


----------



## Ruckol1

What did you think of those NASL casts Doom


----------



## Mit Namso

I don't think the game exists


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13176297*
> White-ra is now tied for favorite streamer along with qxc.


My favorite streamer is Spanishiwa.

http://www.justin.tv/spanishiwa/b/283935730

Skip to an hour and 35min.

This is awesome, Spanishiwa, Day9 and LiquidTyler on Skype. Spanishiwa was doing funday monday, no roaches banes mutas and only allowed to make 12 zerglings.


----------



## deanlewandowski

Played "Random Micro Challenge" custom game with a few peeps from the OCN channel.
Was really good fun.

If anyone else wants to add me to chat or play some games with a Bronze level newb that just started playing again, hit me up.

Massiv
#955


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


What did you think of those NASL casts Doom


They were fine







.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Is there a way I can replace the regular Thor with the CE version, but make the change only visible to myself?

I'm guessing not, because they're two separate meshes, but you never know...


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.

Use at your own risk though.

http://www.d3scene.com/forum/starcra...placement.html


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I finally played against my first Spanishiwa style Zerg. It was crazy and I got my ass kicked. Mass spines / lings / queens transfusion into infestor ultra mass nydus worms.


Mass spines? Isn't that well not effective?







It seems everywhere I look, I hear that any static defense is bad(given you can move crawlers but still). Having said that, I find the game more enjoyable when one plays it the way they want to


----------



## deanlewandowski

ahh now I remember why I quit playing this and any other online games LOL
Other people just have WAY too much time to play these games and I simply can not compete.
I guess I'll keep practicing but losing this much is not fun lol....


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


ahh now I remember why I quit playing this and any other online games LOL
Other people just have WAY too much time to play these games and I simply can not compete.
I guess I'll keep practicing but losing this much is not fun lol....


That's why there are divisions. So plebs like us don't get matched up against IdrA.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deanlewandowski*


ahh now I remember why I quit playing this and any other online games LOL
Other people just have WAY too much time to play these games and I simply can not compete.
I guess I'll keep practicing but losing this much is not fun lol....


lol, go for random and have fun with the game. If you restrict yourself to one race, you get to play only 3 from a possible 9 matches with random. I agree, I think people spend a lot of time but if you enjoy the game, spending time to improve isn't much of an issue. Would explain why I was up late the last 2 nights








I'm aiming to get on for an hour or two within 30min. If you are still on and playing Zerg, we can do a couple of customs before I ladder


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Mass spines? Isn't that well not effective?







It seems everywhere I look, I hear that any static defense is bad(given you can move crawlers but still). Having said that, I find the game more enjoyable when one plays it the way they want to










Watch spanshiwa.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I just completed the Day[9] drinking game without falling asleep... considering that it's almost 5am over here, I think that's quite the accomplishment. Tomorrow I'll try it without water!

Oh, and "How to play Terran according to Day[9]":










terran is the most micro intensive race. making just marines and a moving NEVER works. get it out of ur head


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Watch spanshiwa.


meh, would rather play more SCII games than waiting for a video to finish dling or loading. Either way, based on what you wrote, I kinda understand his style now









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


terran is the most micro intensive race. making just marines and a moving NEVER works. get it out of ur head


Actually all of them are. Examples: With Protoss, you need to micro your ff otherwise you'll get runover by a stim timing attack. You need to micro your mutas for harass as Zerg. You need to hop tanks and do drops as terran, etc....







Mass marines works much better than most think


----------



## Sainesk

don't colossi with thermal lance outrange marines?

forcefield + that^ or psi storm = r.i.p. marines







(?)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


don't colossi with thermal lance outrange marines?

forcefield + that^ or psi storm = r.i.p. marines







(?)


U serious?








Yes, they do I believe new range is 9 instead of original 6, marines are 5. thing is, the idea of mass marines is to 1 rax exp then keep harassing to prevent your opponent from being able to get colossi or limit max number to 1. Check the strategy part on TL for details


----------



## DoomDash

Terran micro is ******* crazy hard ( in TvZ esp ). I can't comment on Protoss since I rarely play them, but Zerg micro is easy as f*ck.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran micro is ******* crazy hard ( in TvZ esp ). I can't comment on Protoss since I rarely play them, but Zerg micro is easy as f*ck.


If you don't like the micro, why stick to Terran? Change over to Zerg or Protoss, after all you wanted to make the switch


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran micro is ******* crazy hard ( in TvZ esp ). I can't comment on Protoss since I rarely play them, but Zerg micro is easy as f*ck.


Zerg isn't micro so much as just flanking. Maybe muta micro? It's not hard.

Terran lategame micro is intensive as ****. Spreading out marauders, ghosts, vikings and engaging perfectly while macroing ain't ez-pz. That's why I go mech =P

As to the above, Protoss is a trash, easymode race and I wouldn't go back to it. Zerg is okay but its more frustrating than anything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Zerg isn't micro so much as just flanking. Maybe muta micro? It's not hard.

Terran lategame micro is intensive as ****. Spreading out marauders, ghosts, vikings and engaging perfectly while macroing ain't ez-pz. That's why *I* go mech =P

As to the above, Protoss is a trash, easymode race and I wouldn't go back to it. Zerg is okay but its more frustrating than anything.


I detect a very strong hint of opinionism in here


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


If you don't like the micro, why stick to Terran? Change over to Zerg or Protoss, after all you wanted to make the switch










I didn't say anything about Protoss.

Zerg micro is easy as hell, but I do still want to play Terran because playing a race that is hard for me will make me a better player.

I still think about going Zerg eventually. I would be really good as Z and I think everyone who's seen my Z or played it will tell you the same.

and Twist started off as Protoss and went to random, so he's hardly that biased.


----------



## Twistacles

Yeah, to clarify I was Toss most of beta/release, went random for a few months and settled as Main Terran recently. Going Terran definitely improved me in every facet of the game. I just get a little frustrated by Toss being able to easily a-move to victory.

It's fun to roflstomp every zerg ever, though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Yeah, to clarify I was Toss most of beta/release, went random for a few months and settled as Main Terran recently. Going Terran definitely improved me in every facet of the game. I just get a little frustrated by Toss being able to easily a-move to victory.

It's fun to roflstomp every zerg ever, though.


What league? I roflstomp Protoss but TvZ I find impossible.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What league? I roflstomp Protoss but TvZ I find impossible.


Masters.

It's just that my best friend is Zerg so I've had a master's level zerg practice partner since forever. It's all about marine-tank-thor and splitting them marines! Oh and double engi bays. And aggressive dropping. And get a raven to push creep back.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*I didn't say anything about Protoss.*

Zerg micro is easy as hell, but I do still want to play Terran because playing a race that is hard for me will make me a better player.

I still think about going Zerg eventually. I would be really good as Z and I think everyone who's seen my Z or played it will tell you the same.

and Twist started off as Protoss and went to random, so he's hardly that biased.


Yep, I know, just added it in there for no reason whatsoever







Some parts of Zerg micro are easy, others are more difficult, that's all I was trying to point out. As for changing to Z, it's really up to you. If you think it's the race you want to play, go for it. More power to you, given you will be dealing with ZvsZs








As for that last comment, well, he said that he wouldn't go back to Protoss and goes mech in Terran. Based on that, I thought he make a switch from P to T


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Masters.

It's just that my best friend is Zerg so I've had a master's level zerg practice partner since forever. It's all about marine-tank-thor and splitting them marines! Oh and double engi bays. And aggressive dropping. And get a raven to push creep back.


I do my best at that and I still have no luck, and I practice it 10x more than any other match up.\\

Why aren't you in our division anymore?

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What league? I roflstomp Protoss but TvZ I find impossible.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Masters.

It's just that my best friend is Zerg so I've had a master's level zerg practice partner since forever. It's all about marine-tank-thor and splitting them marines! Oh and double engi bays. And aggressive dropping. And get a raven to push creep back.


Funny, seems you guys should help each other out. Doom has issues with TvsZ and twistacles has issues with TvsP







BTW, I saw your posts on TL about BMing almost every game, made me ROFL









^^Did you notice he said medivacs, ravens and drops???? *hint, hint*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^Did you notice he said medivacs, ravens and drops???? *hint, hint*










I use medivacs all the time now BigFan. Up like 2000% from my old game play.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I do my best at that and I still have no luck, and I practice it 10x more than any other match up.\\

Why aren't you in our division anymore?

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/


TvP is easy for T...just make rauders/vikings/medivacs gg.

Should ask Buda for advice in TvZ..he does fairly well against Jake.


----------



## Twistacles

Try this:

Gas first
rax
orbital/one marine/factory
start reactor once marine is done
swap with factory and start starport/2nd gas
Once 4 hellions are out, reswap factory and rax
harass with 4 hellions. You don't need to do damage, only force roaches.
Let the banshees come in. You need to do SOME damage, but mostly forcing spores is okay. As you're harassing, you macro up a bunch of marines, a medivac and 3 tanks + siege mode + expansion. (ENGI if you suspect muta)
When 3rd tank is out, push. You can usually knock out their natural unless your harass did like, NOTHING.

after that just drop a ****load of rax, an extra factory and macro a bit, harass, grab and early third and just put constant pressure. Eventually you'll have a good engagement where youll split your marines well enough and youll kill him. Just need one good engagement.

Hey, It worked against VTgix in go4sc2 and he was 4200 =D It also crushes a lot of zergs.

EDIT: Spanishiwa opening does pretty well against this though. If you see it, cancel starport and just expand right away.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


TvP is easy for T...just make rauders/vikings/medivacs gg.

Should ask Buda for advice in TvZ..he does fairly well against Jake.


Bio is really bad against Toss imo. Unless you're significantly ahead economically its ****. Decent forcefields shut it down too easily.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I use medivacs all the time now BigFan. Up like 2000% from my old game play.


I see, maybe since we haven't had a xvsT game in a long time or since you ended that PvsT on shakuras pretty fast









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Try this:

Gas first
rax
orbital/one marine/factory
start reactor once marine is done
swap with factory and start starport/2nd gas
Once 4 hellions are out, reswap factory and rax
harass with 4 hellions. You don't need to do damage, only force roaches.
Let the banshees come in. You need to do SOME damage, but mostly forcing spores is okay. As you're harassing, you macro up a bunch of marines, a medivac and 3 tanks + siege mode + expansion. (ENGI if you suspect muta)
When 3rd tank is out, push. You can usually knock out their natural unless your harass did like, NOTHING.

after that just drop a ****load of rax, an extra factory and macro a bit, harass, grab and early third and just put constant pressure. Eventually you'll have a good engagement where youll split your marines well enough and youll kill him. Just need one good engagement.

Hey, It worked against VTgix in go4sc2 and he was 4200 =D It also crushes a lot of zergs.


Interesting build, but, seems really suspectible to harass. I'm wondering how it stands against early harass or any kind of cheese(4 gate(just a mention), bane bust, etc....)?









Edit: BTW, curious what settings do you guys have SCII on? While the lower settings looked bad compared to high/very high, the game seems less shiny which I think might make for better gameplay because of focus?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


TvP is easy for T...just make rauders/vikings/medivacs gg.


Even that unit combo is not easy. Requires tons of micro and multi-pronged attacks. It may be easy early though. I think at first it still favors Terran, but slowly starts to favor Protoss.

Nothing I can't deal with though.

As far as my SCII settings, I have it on medium now. Why? Because since 1.3 or these new maps I've been getting a bull**** FPS drop randomly that causes it to lag into the next games. Never happened pre-1.3 on extreme ever.


----------



## Xyxyll

God I hate being in bronze. I just started playing as bronze 2v2 Protoss after being gold Terran season 1 (never played Protoss before). Went on a 6 win streak tonight and then got cheesed 3 times in a row. I always managed okay and planted a KO counter attack, but my teammates *always* fall to their canon rush. I need to get out of bronze quick!









Just played a round where the enemy protoss canon rushed both of us and the enemy terran turtled up and teched. I held of mine and was fine on econ, but teammate abandoned his entire base (incl 3 gateways). Got him set up in his natural and countered the canon rusher. Pretty much put him out of commission. I should have been able to take down the terran too, but he was pretty successful finding my expos while I was taking down his. I ultimately fell to a giant Thor rush (sadly I knew it was coming too), but my gateway units + immortals didn't really keep him out, and my expos kept falling.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I'm trying to get the 5 minute blitz cheevo v a very hard computer. I tried a proxy gateway, but that took 6 minutes, and I tried an 18 ling rush, but that took 5 minutes and 10 seconds, whereas a 16 ling rush doesn't cut it.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I've been trying v VH Terran. Would a P or Z be easier?


----------



## DoomDash

Proxy reapers.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Against terran?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just going to leave this here.


----------



## Xyxyll

Hey, you won a ladder match!


----------



## Vermillion

Theres an overclock.net chat?
I might be up for some custom practice games some time. Dont know what my char. code is ill check back later.


----------



## HarrisLam

I'm amazed by the average play level of you ppl, like most of you are in masters or something

I play Terran, and I have trouble with tvt and TVz

For TVz , how do I deal with blings? I mean I can try to micro but the banelings run as fast as my marines do, and Marquette just don't do Enough damage to lings

Do I rush for some blue flames?

In TvT, I just suck. No matter what I do I just don't win. I don't seem to play tanks AND play against tanks very well. I'm alright with mm but tanks own them and the wall is trouble

I'm just gold so any input will be useful for me, thanks!


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Nw0rb

Im board anyone wanna dosome nexus wars or somting


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;13185258*
> I'm trying to get the 5 minute blitz cheevo v a very hard computer.
> 
> Any suggestions?


yes! something I can answer finally









here's the way I find easiest against insane: ZvZ, any map where you're not 10 billion miles away from each other.

when game starts send your drones to mine. When first mineral drone returns, hotkey it and send it to enemies base.

This drone will be used to delay the ai's mining by building an extractor, having the ai's drones attack it, and cancelling it on low health. All you will do is "select the drone, b, e, esc when extractor on low health, b, e, esc, b, e, esc..."

once you've made 2 drones, make pool as soon as you hit 200 minerals. When it finishes send 2 more drones to enemies base. Start 3 zerglings.

now you should have 3 drones in their base, 1 still doing the extractor delay. As soon as your zerglings hit the enemies base throw all 3 of those drones or at least 2 if you don't have enough minerals into spine crawlers behind their mineral line. The enemy drones will attack them BUT if you run your zerglings near them they switch the priority of their attacks to the zerglings and start chasing them.

So basically don't attack with your zerglings - just run your zerglings near the drones and get the drones/queen to chase them and run away so the zerglings don't die, repeat until crawlers finish. Once crawlers are done you can send your lings to help with queen (if any).

Once 2+ crawlers are down ai pretty much gg's, accept.

Here's a replay I did just now in case it doesn't make sense, but I was half asleep so I only got 2 crawlers down... 4:31







.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;13186574*
> I'm amazed by the average play level of you ppl, like most of you are in masters or something
> 
> I play Terran, and I have trouble with tvt and TVz
> 
> For TVz , how do I deal with blings? I mean I can try to micro but the banelings run as fast as my marines do, and Marquette just don't do Enough damage to lings
> 
> Do I rush for some blue flames?
> 
> In TvT, I just suck. No matter what I do I just don't win. I don't seem to play tanks AND play against tanks very well. I'm alright with mm but tanks own them and the wall is trouble
> 
> I'm just gold so any input will be useful for me, thanks!


In TvZ, if you lose to banelings you probably already lost the map control and expo count. You shouldn't be pushing if you don't have some units to soak up that damage (and know that it's coming), so not having a thor or two or a good amount of marauders (6+) is your issue, not the banelings. In TvZ you need to scout him well early and at the 6-7 minute mark, and you need to push before you are at 200/200. Once zerg gets started on a path changing from it is going to take him forever. A zerg, unlike terran, can't afford to just throw down every type of building to make you guess what they're going for. If you see a spire, you'll see mutas and probably no roaches.

Pool before expo? Get ready for early sling harass to keep you in your base while the zerg drones. He will likely go into muta/bling/sling, so get some marine/thor/tank which will dominate him. Your thors always move first, and your marines always hang out by your tanks.

Expo before pool? Standard bane/sling/muta most likely, but continue scouting because roach/infestor is a possibility and will crush any marine/thor/tank play, you need a raven (for burrow) and marauders to really stomp on this.

No expo? Timing push, either baneling bust or roaches. An extra rax and a few well placed bunkers go a long way to defend this, alternatively you can tech to banshees and punish him for being cheesy.

As for TvT, I know viking/tank/marine seems like the way to go. But unless you have a lot of control and good micro abilities, you will be crushed by someone simply massing marines. Try iEchoic's build (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624) because it forces the other Terran player to either go for thors which takes forever, or go for early marauder/viking, which leaves him open to drops. It's also easy to control after awhile.

If you spawn on close positions on metalopolis for example, it's really hard for another terran to stop a blue hellion drop into their base, plus the hellions give you map control.


----------



## BigFan

^^ Thanks Sainesk








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;13186574*
> I'm amazed by the average play level of you ppl, like most of you are in masters or something
> 
> I play Terran, and I have trouble with tvt and TVz
> 
> For TVz , how do I deal with blings? I mean I can try to micro but the banelings run as fast as my marines do, and Marquette just don't do Enough damage to lings
> 
> Do I rush for some blue flames?
> 
> In TvT, I just suck. No matter what I do I just don't win. I don't seem to play tanks AND play against tanks very well. I'm alright with mm but tanks own them and the wall is trouble
> 
> I'm just gold so any input will be useful for me, thanks!


You need tanks when going up against blings. You also need to spread your marines so that the splash of blings becomes negligible. It's really the only way to deal with them aside from getting your opponent to run his blings into his thors, etc.... which can absorb a lot.
In TvsT, MMMT is pretty standard play using vikings to get some vision. You can't win every TvsT so don't worry about it


----------



## DoomDash

Watch some pro Terrans play TvZ and you'll see what you need to do. You need to have sick micro, good position, kill creep tumors, split, leap frog, just to stop your army from being right clicked by banes.


----------



## poroboszcz

I watched Idra stream yesterday. He makes protoss look UP in the matchup. In one game he maxed in about 14 minutes, with upgrades and infestors. oO


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forcewater;13187245*
> As far as I know, the idea is to get your marauders to absorb the hits. This may or may not help you.


im not understanding that guide very well lol

is he saying that manual split isn't necessary? cuz what he did just seems to be manual split except he's using patrol-move instead of A-move which is suppose to do something extra that i didn't understand? lol

@kittensmewmew: hmmm thats a little deep
basically, in TvZ i rush mostly before i hit 70 food, most of the time around 50, sometimes as early as 35, if i was careless enough to forget building a supply

often enough my few marines or MMs are able to take down any lings he has, continue to push forward, probably hit 1 or 2 drones, but soon enough the 2nd wave of lings come and my guys wont survive that (sometimes i pull them back if i got only 2 or 3 left)

its usually the 2nd push, or the late first push when the blings come into play. and they dont come alone, zerglings are often with them, so i can't really micro very well when i see that, the banelings are running at the same speed as my MM, but the lings run much faster, if i try to run back+slowly split, those are mostly free hits for the zerglings and what's left over aren't enough to survive the green bust

ive lost to many other zerg strats before and i do think i deserve those losses, but i really hate losing to these green basstards

i know i didnt explain that very well, i might post a replay later showing examples to how i would lose games like this

just wondering, will helions hit-and-run do the trick? tanks sound sweet when you get them sieged from far away, just hate to get them surrounded by lings, dont you hate bugs that are faster than your slapping hand?


----------



## onoz

How do I get into Overclock.net's division?


----------



## flushentitypacket

Unless you're at least in Master's, I wouldn't really worry about micromanagement very much. Just work on a good TvZ early timing push with impeccable macro, and you'll be in fine shape.


----------



## l337sft

LOL i need to play more, im last in our OCN division. How did i even get on there, i dont remember filling out anything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13189477*
> Watch some pro Terrans play TvZ and you'll see what you need to do. You need to have sick micro, good position, kill creep tumors, split, leap frog, just to stop your army from being right clicked by banes.


I've never actually went mass banes against a Terran although I did have a little fun with a T on delta when he decided to go for mass marines+tanks+vikings and tried to nuke my base








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13189628*
> I watched Idra stream yesterday. He makes protoss look UP in the matchup. In one game he maxed in about 14 minutes, with upgrades and infestors. oO


Idra makes GM players look like a joke. I was watching his stream about 2 days back, his opponents either don't know how to play or don't know how to play about Z because he roflstomped every single one asides from quitting a game where an opponent tried a cannon contain








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz;13189790*
> How do I get into Overclock.net's division?


There should be a channel tab near the time. Just click on it, type "overclock.net" and click join channel


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


For TVz , how do I deal with blings? I mean I can try to micro but the banelings run as fast as my marines do, and Marquette just don't do Enough damage to lings


Make anything but your marines take the hits. Put the marines behind other units, and at the first sign of blings, make them run away, but split them at the same time.

If you have stim and your opponent does NOT have centrifugal hooks, you can just stim and kite.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


In TvT, I just suck. No matter what I do I just don't win. I don't seem to play tanks AND play against tanks very well. I'm alright with mm but tanks own them and the wall is trouble


Tank v tank is very positional. One thing you really need is a good handful of spotter aircraft, preferably vikings, so they can take out enemy spotter craft. You should also practice predicting exactly where a sieged tank's range limit is. You don't want to roll into enemy tanks, but set up so your tanks just baaaaaarely hit the enemy's, then leapfrog forwards.


----------



## Recluse

Are most of you OCN SC guys in europe or US? Would like to have someone to practice against when I get home, silver/gold level zerg but I think I can make plat if I just played more


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


How do I get into Overclock.net's division?


Do you mean the SC2ranks thing? Just link your battle.net profile and paste it here:

http://sc2ranks.com/c/characters/1765

Then click submit.

Forbes interviews Destiny!

http://blogs.forbes.com/insertcoin/2...-for-a-living/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Recluse*


Are most of you OCN SC guys in europe or US? Would like to have someone to practice against when I get home, silver/gold level zerg but I think I can make plat if I just played more










Sorry I have the US version, similar with most other members of OCN :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Forbes interviews Destiny!

http://blogs.forbes.com/insertcoin/2...-for-a-living/


Interesting interview, didn't realize he owns a house and has a small child


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Tralala

im on teh NA servers
plat everything


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

Amazon.com: Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty: Pc: Video Games
SC2 is on sale today for people you know who want it.

Also, hahaha:


----------



## l337sft

I just played an hour an 12 minute game and lost, basically mined out the entire map. I have no idea what to do against this. If someone wouldnt mind downloading this replay and telling me what i should have done i would greatly appreciate it. Im in bronze league, but i consider myself a little better than bronze, maybe silver or gold.

It is a very epic game i must say.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...toss-slag-pits

If someone could just watch it at 8 times or something and show me what i did wrong. Because i have no idea what to do against terran when they have a unit composition like he did in this game.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Apparently in that same game, avilo bunker rushed... to the wrong base.









I believe it was in this daily when Day[9] said something along the lines of, "A league is a way to measure your progress", and there was another quote which I can't quite remember.

What server are you on? My name/char code on both EU and NA are Forcewater #736 if you want to add me. I'm a bronze zerg, maybe we can get some practice games going










Im on NA







I added you, im down for whatever.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do you mean the SC2ranks thing? Just link your battle.net profile and paste it here:

http://sc2ranks.com/c/characters/1765

Then click submit.

Forbes interviews Destiny!

http://blogs.forbes.com/insertcoin/2...-for-a-living/


That was pretty cool


----------



## Allenssmart

terran is the most micro intensive race. if u can't handle it and want to play a very difficult macro style game, switch to zerg. if u want to turtle on 2 base and get 200/200 and be able to a move and win, switch to toss.


----------



## Nutriment

I don't think Terran is the hardest race at micro, imo it's the race that requires u the better multitasking (multi-drops, splitting ur armies, harassing). ZvZ and PvP requires a lot more micro than any terran MU imo, u just cant afford to lose a stalker in 4g vs 4g early pressure. Zerg is THE macro race, and protoss is the turtling race, but that doesn't mean you can't pressure, cheese, rush or hit a 2-base colossus timing attack. There's way too many factors to consider to simply pull out a general rule like : Terran is for micro, protoss for one-base and zerg for macro, it's just not that simple... You have to consider maps, leagues, metagame, patches and opponent's style of play etc...

For instance, Idra is a passive zerg, JulyZerg is an agressive zerg. Sjow is a multitasking terran, Jinro is a macro one that jinroll his opponent in the longer games.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nutriment*


I don't think Terran is the hardest race at micro, imo it's the race that requires u the better multitasking (multi-drops, splitting ur armies, harassing). ZvZ and PvP requires a lot more micro than any terran MU imo, u just cant afford to lose a stalker in 4g vs 4g early pressure. Zerg is THE macro race, and protoss is the turtling race, but that doesn't mean you can't pressure, cheese, rush or hit a 2-base colossus timing attack. There's way too many factors to consider to simply pull out a general rule like : Terran is for micro, protoss for one-base and zerg for macro, it's just not that simple... You have to consider maps, leagues, metagame, patches and opponent's style of play etc...

For instance, Idra is a passive zerg, JulyZerg is an agressive zerg. Sjow is a multitasking terran, Jinro is a macro one that jinroll his opponent in the longer games.


have u ever watched any gsl, tsl, nasl, mlg, dreamhack??? tvz is THE MOST micro intensive. spreading marines, splitting marines, pre-spreading marines, positioning tanks, launching emps, sniping infestors, protecting tank lines from constant muta harass, sniping mutas, etc.


----------



## Recluse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


I'm in the EU, but I have an NA account too









I'm a bronze zerg, but most of the ladder games I've been playing recently have been easy wins vs other bronze players. We can have a game if you want, but you'll probably roflstomp me










Yeah sounds cool, I'll be back from vacation next monday or so, add me on b.net: Meatspin.290 and poke me when I log on!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nutriment*


I don't think Terran is the hardest race at micro, imo it's the race that requires u the better multitasking (multi-drops, splitting ur armies, harassing). ZvZ and PvP requires a lot more micro than any terran MU imo, u just cant afford to lose a stalker in 4g vs 4g early pressure. Zerg is THE macro race, and protoss is the turtling race, but that doesn't mean you can't pressure, cheese, rush or hit a 2-base colossus timing attack. There's way too many factors to consider to simply pull out a general rule like : Terran is for micro, protoss for one-base and zerg for macro, it's just not that simple... You have to consider maps, leagues, metagame, patches and opponent's style of play etc...

For instance, Idra is a passive zerg, JulyZerg is an agressive zerg. Sjow is a multitasking terran, Jinro is a macro one that jinroll his opponent in the longer games.


TvZ micro is beyond words.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


TvZ micro is beyond words.


exactly. thanks for proving my point


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


TvZ micro is beyond words.


TvsZ might require more micro than some other matchups, but, you guys blow it way out of proportion. I can write about similar claims for Protoss and Zerg but there's no need for that. I think TvsT, PvsP and ZvsZ take the cake for most micro possibly followed by TvsZ, ZvsP, etc.... A single mistake in ZvsZ means you ran your slings into his banes, GG. Unseige and get caught out of position in TvsT or if you can't react fast enough(siege tanks, kite, etc...) means GG. PvsP, mis-micro and lose a stalker as you 4g to his 4g, it's GG


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


TvsZ might require more micro than some other matchups, but, you guys blow it way out of proportion. I can write about similar claims for Protoss and Zerg but there's no need for that. I think TvsT, PvsP and ZvsZ take the cake for most micro possibly followed by TvsZ, ZvsP, etc.... A single mistake in ZvsZ means you ran your slings into his banes, GG. Unseige and get caught out of position in TvsT or if you can't react fast enough(siege tanks, kite, etc...) means GG. PvsP, mis-micro and lose a stalker as you 4g to his 4g, it's GG










You don't even micro what do you know? I'd hardly call any TvZ you've done real TvZ. What are you basing this off of? TvT is no where near TvZ micro intensive. You haven't played real TvZ yet, and when you do you'll be agreeing with me.

You don't even target marines with your banes.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


TvsZ might require more micro than some other matchups, but, you guys blow it way out of proportion. I can write about similar claims for Protoss and Zerg but there's no need for that. I think TvsT, PvsP and ZvsZ take the cake for most micro possibly followed by TvsZ, ZvsP, etc.... A single mistake in ZvsZ means you ran your slings into his banes, GG. Unseige and get caught out of position in TvsT or if you can't react fast enough(siege tanks, kite, etc...) means GG. PvsP, mis-micro and lose a stalker as you 4g to his 4g, it's GG










In TvZ, if you move out in a ball, you'll lose your entire army to sling/bling. If you spread out too much, you're really slow and will lose your entire army to muta harass. TvZ is constant readjustment of tanks and respreading of marines, which is very APM intensive. Comparatively, TvT tanks/marine/viking involves winning the air battle for sight so you can win the ground, which means having more vikings and moving them in and out. TvT is t/m/v mirror is more of a macro game and making the right amount of units. TvT feels less micro oriented and more unit distribution balanced.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


*You don't even micro what do you know? *I'd hardly call any TvZ you've done real TvZ. What are you basing this off of? TvT is no where near TvZ micro intensive. You haven't played real TvZ yet, and when you do you'll be agreeing with me.

You don't even target marines with your banes.


Getting a little riled up, aren't we? Basing that on what? The couple of replays I posted from over 250+ games I've played







Any TvsZs I've done are at my level and doesn't mean its any different because you are facing opponents at your level in your case. Either way, my Zerg opponents seem to know how to macro(exps, upgrades, etc...) based on the replays I've watched from my games, so I can't say much for how "badly" they play. 
Yes, I used to just a click banes because if I knew I had more than enough, I could careless if I lost a few more because I usually had some stockpiled resources. I didn't micro them, because I didn't feel the need, given I never go mass banes against Ts, I usually just get enough of them because I think too much banes is a little over the top. Either way, once I changed to random, I've tried focusing on microing more for all races. 
What's real TvsZ? Last I checked, it's when I'm playing Terran, most opponent Zerg and we are duking it out







I'm guessing you meant at a higher level, doubt I'll be going pro so I won't be having a real TvsZ either way XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


In TvZ, if you move out in a ball, you'll lose your entire army to sling/bling. If you spread out too much, you're really slow and will lose your entire army to muta harass. TvZ is constant readjustment of tanks and respreading of marines, which is very APM intensive. Comparatively, TvT tanks/marine/viking involves winning the air battle for sight so you can win the ground, which means having more vikings and moving them in and out. TvT is t/m/v mirror is more of a macro game and making the right amount of units. TvT feels less micro oriented and more unit distribution balanced.


Same thing can happen if you walk in an opponent's seige tank line or cross paths with colossi. What about hts with storm? I think ht's are much worse than blings because of how powerful storm is and the fact that it affects all units equally(baring armor, etc...). All I was trying to say was that I think mirror matchups can sometimes be as intensive if not more so than TvsZ due to having similar units but trying to get some edge on your opponent


----------



## DoomDash

Storm isn't even close to banelings, and when storm is out you generally have many options to deal with templar.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Getting a little riled up, aren't we? Basing that on what? The couple of replays I posted from over 250+ games I've played







Any TvsZs I've done are at my level and doesn't mean its any different because you are facing opponents at your level in your case. Either way, my Zerg opponents seem to know how to macro(exps, upgrades, etc...) based on the replays I've watched from my games, so I can't say much for how "badly" they play. 
Yes, I used to just a click banes because if I knew I had more than enough, I could careless if I lost a few more because I usually had some stockpiled resources. I didn't micro them, because I didn't feel the need, given I never go mass banes against Ts, I usually just get enough of them because I think too much banes is a little over the top. Either way, once I changed to random, I've tried focusing on microing more for all races. 
What's real TvsZ? Last I checked, it's when I'm playing Terran, most opponent Zerg and we are duking it out







I'm guessing you meant at a higher level, doubt I'll be going pro so I won't be having a real TvsZ either way XD

Same thing can happen if you walk in an opponent's seige tank line or cross paths with colossi. What about hts with storm? I think ht's are much worse than blings because of how powerful storm is and the fact that it affects all units equally(baring armor, etc...). All I was trying to say was that I think mirror matchups can sometimes be as intensive if not more so than TvsZ due to having similar units but trying to get some edge on your opponent










it's not hard to not walk into an opponent's siege line. u hold. 1 button. crossing paths with colossus is just having the vikings right click on colossi while the rest of your army kites. a few more buttons. hts are really easy. 1 click, run back, let medivac heal you up, if u did it right u shouldn't have lost more than a couple rines.


----------



## DoomDash

Hold Position ftw.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13195681*
> Storm isn't even close to banelings, and when storm is out you generally have many options to deal with templar.


The main idea was it an AOE effect much greater than banes which rips apart marines pretty fast. Was giving other examples of units that are hard to go up against








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13195726*
> Hold Position ftw.


As for this, it is now, but, wasn't when you can use zlings to push a zealot aside







Don't forget what'll happen if you decide to hold your zealots for example and then your opponent decides to engage


----------



## flushentitypacket

I still maintain that below master's league, all you need to do to win is have good macro/timing. Even TvZ. (I was a ~2700 Master's before the reset)


----------



## Sainesk

yays i won my season 2 placement match







now to get out of silver...


----------



## yks

Sorry, high level Zerg is the hardest race to micro with. Hands down.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13197861*
> Sorry, high level Zerg is the hardest race to micro with. Hands down.


no not rly


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13197871*
> no not rly


ya rly


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13198158*
> ya rly


No, not really.

On another note:

Title says it all


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13198235*
> No, not really.
> 
> On another note:
> 
> Title says it all


I like the blue flame research into switching onto the reactor, unlike iEchoic's build with 2 factories right off the bat which leaves you broke. It lets you save minerals for an expo. Cool.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I hadn't planned on that build until I saw the FE. I just knew I needed a build that could punish that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13197410*
> yays i won my season 2 placement match
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now to get out of silver...


Nice, nice, I'm sure if you master Z you will








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flushentitypacket;13196876*
> I still maintain that below master's league, all you need to do to win is have good macro/timing. Even TvZ. (I was a ~2700 Master's before the reset)


I think any match involving Z has to be approached different because of banes. Yes. macroing better means a bigger army but also need to consider what makes up the army?

I see yks's point, but, again I think you can use that point across all matches and it depends on the player. Just had some TvsZ games with Sainesk. A lot of fun, took the first on ST, he took the second on XC. From those games, I found that a 1-1-1 with a blue flame hellion drop followed by MMMT is the best approach to the matchup. Of course adding 2 more rax for more marines/marauders and another factory for more tanks/thors later on is needed. I think if you can cripple the Z's eco, it will make it hard for him to make units without making more workers first which means a lack of reinforcements when you attack. That and you can then exp and get into a better position.

Great night, went on a 7-1 win streak losing only a PvsP, so, a new win streak of 9 games XD Had a TvsT on Shakuras which involved a lot of drops on my part and drove my opponent batty








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166343-1v1-terran-shakuras-plateau
Thought some of you guys might enjoy this


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13191662*
> Forbes interviews Destiny!
> 
> http://blogs.forbes.com/insertcoin/2011/04/19/starcrafts-destiny-talks-esports-and-gaming-for-a-living/


That's pretty awesome. lol @ the comments, love how he polarizes his audience.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## yellowtoblerone

Too much *****ing from zerg.


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone seen Idra vs Cruncher yesterday on Idra's/Cruncher's stream? Epic lulz.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Too much *****ing from zerg.


Somewhat justified when the game first released, not so much now


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Anyone seen Idra vs Cruncher yesterday on Idra's/Cruncher's stream? Epic lulz.


I caught the end of it. Idra was raging even though he was winning







Cruncher was so funny haha wish they played a rematch. The chat was going crazy too


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Somewhat justified when the game first released, not so much now










Not really, maps needed to be balanced, not Terran. Some changes were fine, some were wayyy over kill.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












as a former Terran player I think mules, bunkers and hellions need a buff, it's just lame how underpowered they are...


----------



## DoomDash

Mules hints at sarcasm, bunkers is confusing, and hellions also confusing.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## Ruckol1

I looked for the Cruncher vs Idra rematch but couldn't find much of anything. Could someone post the link ?


----------



## Tralala

I see Doomdash in OCN chat,
never anybody else

we need to get the population on SC2 up


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I was there earlier but Doom was harsh ignoring me.

I was cut deep.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13206425*
> I was there earlier but Doom was harsh ignoring me.
> 
> I was cut deep.


This must be a common occurrence for overclock.neters. They talk to me, I don't respond, and they never come back again.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13206333*
> I looked for the Cruncher vs Idra rematch but couldn't find much of anything. Could someone post the link ?


http://www.justin.tv/eg_idra/b/284079023

Starts at 7:30.


----------



## Allenssmart

can someone please analyse this replay, i'm the terran, having problems against protoss. diamond.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166602-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk


----------



## DoomDash

Infestor, 90 HP.

Snipe, 45 damage ignores armor.

2 snipes DO NOT KILL AN INFESTOR!! What a load of crap. Can be two instant snipes doesn't matter.


----------



## BigFan

^^rofl, take it easy. Guessing you tried to snipe some infestors but it didn't work as planned








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13206425*
> I was there earlier but Doom was harsh ignoring me.
> 
> I was cut deep.


Yep, he's done the same to me countless times in the past XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13203670*
> Not really, maps needed to be balanced, not Terran. Some changes were fine, some were wayyy over kill.


rofl @ pic. What were the overkill changes IYO?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13205125*
> Mules hints at sarcasm, bunkers is confusing, and hellions also confusing.


I be
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tralala;13206360*
> I see Doomdash in OCN chat,
> never anybody else
> 
> we need to get the population on SC2 up


The channel is usually active around 6ish every night, more so on the weekend than weekdays though


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^rofl, take it easy. Guessing you tried to snipe some infestors but it didn't work as planned










Nope, but I did lose a 4 base vs 4 base TvZ with mass mech, which was 2-2, vs no upgrades Zerg because of bs NP.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nope, but I did lose a 4 base vs 4 base TvZ with mass mech, which was 2-2, vs no upgrades Zerg because of bs NP.










That sounds rough especially considering that you lost due to NP. Mark my words, once Zerg is used to its full potential(NP, contaminate, etc....), you'll fear the day you get a TvsZ!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

I already fear it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I already fear it.


rofl, I just refreshed this page now XD Well, more time more things figured out. 
Seems EG.DeMusliM is back: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=214795
I remember that first blizzcon game against another famous terran on XC. That tank attack and constant pressure was pretty awesome and sick. Hopefully, his recovery went well and he can be back and take the top 3 terran players in EU again


----------



## QuadDamage

Just got 4v4 Plat, wow no team work what so ever

I love it, Been playing Random


----------



## Swift Castiel

Man, this is my first time posting here in this thread, but I'm in dire need of epic help.

In short, I hate PvP.
In long, I don't know what's wrong. My PvT is fine, my PvZ is decent (I lose maybe 1 of 5 for this), but my PvP is in shambles. I literally win 1 of 4 for this matchup.

And I know what some of you are going to say.
Fourgate. That's all you do.
Yes, I understand that, but I'm terrible at holding off two gate zealot rushes. I haven't really perfected a way to do it yet, and so I'm struggling since that's majority of the players I play against. If anyone has some advice on this, that would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I'm on SEA, so if they're are any SEA players here, feel free to add me:
Swifty
914


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swift Castiel;13214518*
> Man, this is my first time posting here in this thread, but I'm in dire need of epic help.
> 
> In short, I hate PvP.
> In long, I don't know what's wrong. My PvT is fine, my PvZ is decent (I lose maybe 1 of 5 for this), but my PvP is in shambles. I literally win 1 of 4 for this matchup.
> 
> And I know what some of you are going to say.
> Fourgate. That's all you do.
> Yes, I understand that, but I'm terrible at holding off two gate zealot rushes. I haven't really perfected a way to do it yet, and so I'm struggling since that's majority of the players I play against. If anyone has some advice on this, that would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Also, I'm on SEA, so if they're are any SEA players here, feel free to add me:
> Swifty
> 914


Everyone hates PvP and most people I know have <50% w/l ratio in this matchup. There are certain thing you can do to improve, but generally whoever executes a better 4gate wins. Against 2 gate zealots (league?) best thing you can do is to make 2 gates of your own to match he's zealots count, but stay ahead in probes. Alternatively if it's a proxy and you see nothing at he's base, you should drop a forge immediately.

Check out today's Next 12 weeks with the pros, where Socke is going to talk about PvP. It's starting in about 3 hours from now.


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ I have had good luck with a hidden pylone in their base, and using cannons to hold off there 4 gate and use my proxy to counter at their base. Works well in gold for myself


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13208691*
> Infestor, 90 HP.
> 
> Snipe, 45 damage ignores armor.
> 
> 2 snipes DO NOT KILL AN INFESTOR!! What a load of crap. Can be two instant snipes doesn't matter.


Why not just use EMP and render them useless?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swift Castiel;13214518*
> Man, this is my first time posting here in this thread, but I'm in dire need of epic help.
> 
> In short, I hate PvP.
> In long, I don't know what's wrong. My PvT is fine, my PvZ is decent (I lose maybe 1 of 5 for this), but my PvP is in shambles. I literally win 1 of 4 for this matchup.
> 
> And I know what some of you are going to say.
> Fourgate. That's all you do.
> Yes, I understand that, but I'm terrible at holding off two gate zealot rushes. I haven't really perfected a way to do it yet, and so I'm struggling since that's majority of the players I play against. If anyone has some advice on this, that would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Also, I'm on SEA, so if they're are any SEA players here, feel free to add me:
> Swifty
> 914


I win about 80% of my PvPs in upper master league. I could give you "rush" strats and all that but first you need to secure a basic, adaptable 4-gate build.

9 pylon (chrono when it finishes)
Chrono right when the first chrono ends
13 gate -> 1 zealot asap
14.5 gas (don't double gas)
16 pylon
Core whenever gate ends (warpgate research asap)
Chrono stalker out of gate once
Probes & pylons up until warpgate research is 30% done
3 gates immediately
The timing works out so that those 3 gates are built as soon as warpgates is researched.

Pump out stalkers/zealots and stay ahead on pylons. Make a lot of zealots, they're the key to 4-gate vs 4-gate. This whole time you should be scouting for proxy and trying to get a proxy pylon yourself.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956;13217058*
> Why not just use EMP and render them useless?


Because EMP no longer renders them useless? Unless they all sit in a nice pack, and have less than 200 energy EMP isn't that useful anymore vs Zerg. If they are at all spread out, or even burrowed it would take a godly amount of EMP's to make a few infestors useless. Snipe is a much better alternative, and it's really lame of Blizzard to over looking one extra sniping being needed to kill an infester. Literally 45 damage of over kill for a spell that should be intended to kill a 90 hp unit in 2 snipes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swift Castiel;13214518*
> Man, this is my first time posting here in this thread, but I'm in dire need of epic help.
> 
> In short, I hate PvP.
> In long, I don't know what's wrong. My PvT is fine, my PvZ is decent (I lose maybe 1 of 5 for this), but my PvP is in shambles. I literally win 1 of 4 for this matchup.
> 
> And I know what some of you are going to say.
> Fourgate. That's all you do.
> Yes, I understand that, but I'm terrible at holding off two gate zealot rushes. I haven't really perfected a way to do it yet, and so I'm struggling since that's majority of the players I play against. If anyone has some advice on this, that would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Also, I'm on SEA, so if they're are any SEA players here, feel free to add me:
> Swifty
> 914


You know if you have a SEA account you can also come on NA for free right? Anyway my friend opens 3 gate phoenix PvP quite often in Masters and I see him winning with it all the time.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13217221*
> I win about 80% of my PvPs in upper master league. I could give you "rush" strats and all that but first you need to secure a basic, adaptable 4-gate build.
> 
> 9 pylon (chrono when it finishes)
> Chrono right when the first chrono ends
> 13 gate -> 1 zealot asap
> 14.5 gas (don't double gas)
> 16 pylon
> Core whenever gate ends (warpgate research asap)
> Chrono stalker out of gate once
> Probes & pylons up until warpgate research is 30% done
> 3 gates immediately
> The timing works out so that those 3 gates are built as soon as warpgates is researched.
> 
> Pump out stalkers/zealots and stay ahead on pylons. Make a lot of zealots, they're the key to 4-gate vs 4-gate. This whole time you should be scouting for proxy and trying to get a proxy pylon yourself.


Sadly this works on 80% of maps unless your opponent plays very well with the 3 stalker opening and is able to snipe your first proxy pylon, or better yet your probe.

@Doom: Infestor play for Zerg is playing on a razor thin edge. Often times I see a Zerg looking like they are owning with infestors mid game, but when it comes to late game infestors just don't win games, and die too easily. (ZvT)

Also if you lose your infestors w/o doing any damage you might as well type GG.

PvZ is a different story. A good micro intensive Z player going bane drops with infestors is deadly t.t.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217505*
> Sadly this works on 80% of maps unless your opponent plays very well with the 3 stalker opening and is able to snipe your first proxy pylon, or better yet your probe.
> 
> @Doom: Infestor play for Zerg is playing on a razor thin edge. Often times I see a Zerg looking like they are owning with infestors mid game, but when it comes to late game infestors just don't win games, and die too easily. (ZvT)
> 
> Also if you lose your infestors w/o doing any damage you might as well type GG.
> 
> PvZ is a different story. A good micro intensive Z player going bane drops with infestors is deadly t.t.


If you think PvZ is harder than TvZ you are going to make me spit out my drink.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217505*
> Sadly this works on 80% of maps unless your opponent plays very well with the 3 stalker opening and is able to snipe your first proxy pylon, or better yet your probe.


By proxy I didn't mean "building a pylon in the other dude's base". That's called a cheese pylon. Your probe should never be near a stalker. A good proxy pylon is simply one that allows you to warp in units closer to the other guy's base.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13217584*
> If you think PvZ is harder than TvZ you are going to make me spit out my drink.


The most balanced matchups imo are PvT, TvT (obviously







), and TvZ right now.

Balance issues can be debated all day long. There is obviously a difference in balances between casual players and professional players.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13217644*
> By proxy I didn't mean "building a pylon in the other dude's base". That's called a cheese pylon. Your probe should never be near a stalker. A good proxy pylon is simply one that allows you to warp in units closer to the other guy's base.


The best proxy pylon is the one behind your opponents mineral line, but yes the closer you can get to his/her base the better. If it's in his/her base you've likely won.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217671*
> TvZ right now.


lol


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13217729*
> lol


I can send you some replays of mid level Master Terrans (600-700) beating Grand Master Zergs all day







.

Doom I don't think I told you..Jake beat Idra a day or 2 ago on ladder. It was epic







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217752*
> I can send you some replays of mid level Master Terrans (600-700) beating Grand Master Zergs all day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Doom I don't think I told you..Jake beat Idra a day or 2 ago on ladder. It was epic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Cool I've beat people in the top 200 occasionally too, doesn't mean much. All I know is Z is easier to play against T than vise a versa. I'm pretty confident my barely played Zerg could easily beat my T right now. I know it has a lot to do with my skill set, but macro and playing what is needed to kill T, is much easier than what is needed for T to kill Z ( much less thinking too ). Even in theory the match is more complicated with all the work Terran needs to do.

I've always said Terran is probably better than Zerg if both players play damn near perfect, but unless you are at that level its easily Zerg favored @ equal skills. Blizzard has made it clear the game is not balanced at the pro level skill, because otherwise reaper speed would still be tech lab on barracks tech only, so all I'm asking is for the match to be even in skill @ all levels of play, including mid masters.


----------



## Sainesk

time for my obligatory question I have to ask every once in a while...

has the GSL started doing team games yet/will they?

I find a lot of team games silly, but i'm sure something like MarineKing + SlayerSBoxeR team would be magic...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13217878*
> time for my obligatory question I have to ask every once in a while...
> 
> has the GSL started doing team games yet/will they?
> 
> I find a lot of team games silly, but i'm sure something like MarineKing + SlayerSBoxeR team would be magic...


You mean like 2v2? They have team matches like, Slayers vs IM.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13217822*
> Cool I've beat people in the top 200 occasionally too, doesn't mean much. All I know is Z is easier to play against T than vise a versa. I'm pretty confident my barely played Zerg could easily beat my T right now. I know it has a lot to do with my skill set, but macro and playing what is needed to kill T, is much easier than what is needed for T to kill Z ( much less thinking too ). Even in theory the match is more complicated with all the work Terran needs to do.
> 
> I've always said Terran is probably better than Zerg if both players play damn near perfect, but unless you are at that level its easily Zerg favored @ equal skills. Blizzard has made it clear the game is not balanced at the pro level skill, because otherwise reaper speed would still be tech lab on barracks tech only, so all I'm asking is for the match to be even in skill @ all levels of play, including mid masters.


Idra was first in ladder, currently 3rd, and easily considered to be in the top 5 skill wise in NA imo. But enough of that.

If you believe the game in unbalanced so much your just hurting yourself more. If you truly believe Z is OP then your starting games with a mindset that you can't win if your opponent is as good as you. There are tons of options for T to open against Z, and you don't always have to necessarily FE to have a chance. In most games where I see Terran dominate Z it is with good tank placement, and more importantly excellent marine micro.
Quote:


> time for my obligatory question I have to ask every once in a while...
> 
> has the GSL started doing team games yet/will they?
> 
> I find a lot of team games silly, but i'm sure something like MarineKing + SlayerSBoxeR team would be magic...


There will never be "team" games in GSL because the "pros" of team games only cheese. Cheese always wins against any standard play in 2v2s for example.

Anyone watch GSL from last night? oGsNada vs oGsZenio? ZvT; excellent game, highly recommended.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13217894*
> You mean like 2v2?


yea, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4... they can split any prize money etc.







it might be fun?

also Aiur chef needs pro tournament too... (jk)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217931*
> Idra was first in ladder, currently 3rd, and easily considered to be in the top 5 skill wise in NA imo. But enough of that.
> 
> If you believe the game in unbalanced so much your just hurting yourself more. If you truly believe Z is OP then your starting games with a mindset that you can't win if your opponent is as good as you. There are tons of options for T to open against Z, and you don't always have to necessarily FE to have a chance. In most games where I see Terran dominate Z it is with good tank placement, and more importantly excellent marine micro.


It doesn't matter if I believe it's imbalanced or not. I practice the match 10x more than any other match up because of it. Still by far the hardest match up. If anything it will make me a better player when I can finally come over the imbalance.

I'm not dodging the match up because of what I believe, I have a strong mind and I take things head on.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217931*
> Cheese always wins against any standard play in 2v2s for example.


I disagree, while it's nothing to brag about I managed to make it to 2v2 diamond using nothing but day9s 1 base roaches to lair build mainly going to muta harass...

and i'll admit I also tried the 5 minute 4gate "cheese" just to get the 2v2 2 protoss two-way dominant achievement and it fails miserably at this level...


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13218090*
> I disagree, while it's nothing to brag about I managed to make it to 2v2 diamond using nothing but day9s 1 base roaches to lair build mainly going to muta harass...
> 
> and i'll admit I also tried the 5 minute 4gate "cheese" just to get the 2v2 2 protoss coverage and it fails miserably at this level...


I did have an 80% win ratio in 2v2R Masters until a week ago where the awesome matchmaking system pairs me with plat/low diamond players and we end up playing a paired team and just get stomped. I believe I'm still around the top 30 in NA and most of the games I win are basically cheese rushes. Whether it be cannon rush/10 pool or proxy gate/rax. The games I lose are when my partner tries to play standard i.e. 15 pool and our opponent will proxy/10 pool.

2 Protoss's is the worst combination you can have in 2v2s imo.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13217425*
> Because EMP no longer renders them useless? Unless they all sit in a nice pack, and have less than 200 energy EMP isn't that useful anymore vs Zerg. If they are at all spread out, or even burrowed it would take a godly amount of EMP's to make a few infestors useless. Snipe is a much better alternative, and it's really lame of Blizzard to over looking one extra sniping being needed to kill an infester. Literally 45 damage of over kill for a spell that should be intended to kill a 90 hp unit in 2 snipes.
> 
> You know if you have a SEA account you can also come on NA for free right? Anyway my friend opens 3 gate phoenix PvP quite often in Masters and I see him winning with it all the time.


heh ok? Just wondering. I watch Sheth play a lot and he never really spreads his infestors out.. Every time I play against Terran I always wonder why they don't get a few ghosts and EMP since even decreasing the cast of fungal by 2-3 could easily change the battle.

Not sure how you would snipe a really good zerg as they usually have a ****load of overlords later on in the game overtop of their army against marines/stalkers/Hydras to prevent that sort of stuff with the infestors in the middle(as range is low).


----------



## DoomDash

Snipe is range 10..... Would make for some really cool tactical range play.

And they may not spread out their infestors now, but they will as they get used to infestor play, then all of a sudden EMP is kind of a waste.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13218302*
> Snipe is range 10..... Would make for some really cool tactical range play.
> 
> And they may not spread out their infestors now, but they will as they get used to infestor play, then all of a sudden EMP is kind of a waste.


Ghosts aren't really used too much against Z because Terran has to go tanks in ZvT, while in TvP Terran's rarely go tanks unless they are doing a mech build. The benefit is TvP is much greater when you can render FF/Guardian shield/storms useless and cut the armies life in half..lmao. The gas cost isn't worth it for a few infestors in TvZ imo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13218700*
> Ghosts aren't really used too much against Z because Terran has to go tanks in ZvT, while in TvP Terran's rarely go tanks unless they are doing a mech build. The benefit is TvP is much greater when you can render FF/Guardian shield/storms useless and cut the armies life in half..lmao. The gas cost isn't worth it for a few infestors in TvZ imo.


Actually the weird thing about Terran is that in TvZ money is the issue more than gas when you are on 3+ bases. It's the marines that need replacing, and generally if you're good enough you can keep your siege tanks alive. I think mixing in a few ghosts is not a bad idea at all really late game. In fact I would love to see the ghost be 125/125 now that EMP is not quite as good, because then we may see them more. It's kind of crazy that a ghost costs MORE than a tank. I would love to see Amulet brought back if that happens, but you spawn with 70 energy in stead of 75.

All I am saying is the ghost especially now should be a little better value especially in TvZ, and changing snipe would at least give them more use other than the EMP machine. I joke about ghosts with others, saying I should just start calling them EMP's. Did you build your EMP academy yet? I just hate seeing them be such a rip off outside of TvP.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13217931*
> Idra was first in ladder, currently 3rd, and easily considered to be in the top 5 skill wise in NA imo. But enough of that.
> 
> If you believe the game in unbalanced so much your just hurting yourself more. If you truly believe Z is OP then your starting games with a mindset that you can't win if your opponent is as good as you. There are tons of options for T to open against Z, and you don't always have to necessarily FE to have a chance. In most games where I see Terran dominate Z it is with good tank placement, and more importantly excellent marine micro.
> 
> There will never be "team" games in GSL because the "pros" of team games only cheese. Cheese always wins against any standard play in 2v2s for example.
> 
> Anyone watch GSL from last night? oGsNada vs oGsZenio? ZvT; excellent game, highly recommended.


I watched the box vs nada and then fell asleep during nada vs zenio


----------



## Sainesk

wow i'm so mad... I finally beat Starjeweled insane after a zillion attempts and the achievement didn't unlock...

*** blizzard?


----------



## Ruckol1

my ******* phone broke!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I can send you some replays of mid level Master Terrans (600-700) beating Grand Master Zergs all day







.

Doom I don't think I told you..Jake beat Idra a day or 2 ago on ladder. It was epic







.


Pretty cool, from watching Idra's stream a couple of days back, he makes GM look pretty easy. I watched him play against a terran which he easily won, so, it must've been difficult for Jake to take the game









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Cool I've beat people in the top 200 occasionally too, doesn't mean much. All I know is Z is easier to play against T than vise a versa. I'm pretty confident my barely played Zerg could easily beat my T right now. I know it has a lot to do with my skill set, but macro and playing what is needed to kill T, is much easier than what is needed for T to kill Z ( much less thinking too ). Even in theory the match is more complicated with all the work Terran needs to do.

I've always said Terran is probably better than Zerg if both players play damn near perfect, but unless you are at that level its easily Zerg favored @ equal skills. Blizzard has made it clear the game is not balanced at the pro level skill, because otherwise reaper speed would still be tech lab on barracks tech only, so all I'm asking is for the match to be even in skill @ all levels of play, including mid masters.


Once you get Zerg's mechanics down, the race isn't hard to play. It just requires a lot of stuff to be done(creep spread, spawn larvae, management of units, etc....).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


wow i'm so mad... I finally beat Starjeweled insane after a zillion attempts and the achievement didn't unlock...

*** blizzard?




That's pretty sad :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Actually the weird thing about Terran is that in TvZ money is the issue more than gas when you are on 3+ bases. It's the marines that need replacing, and generally if you're good enough you can keep your siege tanks alive. I think mixing in a few ghosts is not a bad idea at all really late game. In fact I would love to see the ghost be 125/125 now that EMP is not quite as good, because then we may see them more. It's kind of crazy that a ghost costs MORE than a tank. I would love to see Amulet brought back if that happens, but you spawn with 70 energy in stead of 75.

All I am saying is the ghost especially now should be a little better value especially in TvZ, and changing snipe would at least give them more use other than the EMP machine. I joke about ghosts with others, saying I should just start calling them EMP's. Did you build your EMP academy yet? I just hate seeing them be such a rip off outside of TvP.


I agree, I think ghosts cost too much gas, would be nice if they are a bit lower, so, that they get used more.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


my ******* phone broke!!


I blame it on doom and the random streaming times









Motivational TL thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=1


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IGNProLeague

IGN pro league is on now! Good quality for free







.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, it's much better than NASL and free. I wish they got some more casters for NASL.

Btw. there's been so much SC2 content recently I can't even keep up with just watching games, let alone playing.


----------



## DoomDash

I know NASL's free stream shouldn't be compared to IGN's, but DAMN lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I know NASL's free stream shouldn't be compared to IGN's, but DAMN lol.











Crazy different there, that NASL one is too blurry for my taste


----------



## DoomDash

I actually had it on 240p. My bad. Still looks like crap compared to IGN's on 480p though ( free stream ).


----------



## Hank Scorpio

Hadn't played in a week or so due to crazy flight schedules, first game back stomped a favored team and now out of bronze 2v2, feels good man.

Looking to prac/play this weekend for sure, maybe even leave bronze 1v1... ha


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I actually had it on 240p. My bad. Still looks like crap compared to IGN's on 480p though ( free stream ).


I see T_T

HoTS related: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=215213


----------



## Allenssmart

A Zealot costs 100 minerals and does 13.33 DPS.
2 Marines cost 100 minerals and do 13.94 DPS.
4 Zerglings cost 100 minerals and do 28.74 DPS.

For 100 minerals, Zerg tier 1 DPS doubles the DPS of both Terran and Protoss.
Nerf Zerglings.

amidoingitright?


----------



## Mwarren

Zerglings have less hp than marines and zealots and they're larva inefficient.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


A Zealot costs 100 minerals and does 13.33 DPS.
2 Marines cost 100 minerals and do 13.94 DPS.
4 Zerglings cost 100 minerals and do 28.74 DPS.

For 100 minerals, Zerg tier 1 DPS doubles the DPS of both Terran and Protoss.
Nerf Zerglings.

amidoingitright?


1 zealot has 150 health
4 lings have 140 health
2 marines have 90 health

buff marines plz


----------



## Sainesk

someone care to explain what bonus pool is, does it matter if it's high or low?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


buff marines plz


i'd trade my zerglings health for your marines health anyday if they could borrow their guns


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I know NASL's free stream shouldn't be compared to IGN's, but DAMN lol.











I loved watching that ViBe vs. ROOTMinigun! I only saw the last two rounds. Nice war!


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


A Zealot costs 100 minerals and does 13.33 DPS.
2 Marines cost 100 minerals and do 13.94 DPS.
4 Zerglings cost 100 minerals and do 28.74 DPS.

For 100 minerals, Zerg tier 1 DPS doubles the DPS of both Terran and Protoss.
Nerf Zerglings.


Um, no. Zerglings are a melee unit. They have no range. They spend almost as much time running between targets as they do actually attacking and dealing damage. And if you get a bunch of zerglings fighting in a small area the ones in back just scamper around until the ones in front die to make room. That doesn't happen with marines. Marines attack land and air from a range of 5. Even in a large group they all get to fire and deal damage.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


someone care to explain what bonus pool is, does it matter if it's high or low?


If two players had a exactly matching score history with a 50/50 w/l ratio and played against the same opponent every time (so the points won/lost was always the same), but one only played until his bonus pool expired (100 games) and the other kept playing (200 games), they would have the same amount of points equal to the amount of bonus the had accrued.

There's a certain amount of bonus points at any point in the season, the total (used+unused) is the same for all players. So it doesn't matter if it's high or low, it has no relation to your ranking, only to your baseline of points.

It is important in Master league, because it indicates where you sit compared to the bonus pool- a 700 point player is better than a 500 point player if they have both gone through their 600 bonus pool points, the 700 point player has a better w/l ratio.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


Um, no. Zerglings are a melee unit. They have no range. They spend almost as much time running between targets as they do actually attacking and dealing damage. And if you get a bunch of zerglings fighting in a small area the ones in back just scamper around until the ones in front die to make room. That doesn't happen with marines. Marines attack land and air from a range of 5. Even in a large group they all get to fire and deal damage.


You just got trolled. Or maybe you're reverse trolling. Perhaps, by mentioning the trolling, I have become the reverse reverse troll. How the mind boggles.

But seriously, he obviously wasn't serious.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


someone care to explain what bonus pool is, does it matter if it's high or low?


Basically, it's a way that helps someone quickly boost their points by giving them double points if they win over an equally skilled opponent. In other words, you get a couple bonus pool points per hour(can't recall how many exactly) and then if you win an equally skilled opponent, you'll get double. So, instead of 15 points after winning, you'll get 30 points where the extra 15 came from your bonus pool. If the pool is 0, then you get 15 only, etc...


----------



## DoomDash

1 hour 5 minute TvZ on Shakuras Plateau. Pretty cool game. Starts off with me cheesing, lots and lots of battles, infestors, almost mined out, back and forth, ect ect.

Someone please watch







.



Did I mention I killed 1813 units?


----------



## DoomDash

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2
Quote:


> Hello to you, Protoss players. I am coming with a gift of information that some of you may find interesting!
> 
> We have been looking into the 4gate issue and our designers have played with a lot of different fixes and changes, even those that were not strictly numbers related. While strong, 4gate is a lesser problem in other matchups, but we recognize that PvP is a different story.
> 
> Just throwing a nerf bat at warpgates would make protoss weak in early game. This is why we are currently looking at increasing warpgate research time, while at the same time compensating for it with reducing build time of protoss tier 1-1.5 units (though build times reduced only for gateways, cooldowns will stay the same for warpgates). This is an example of a fix you may see, but our developers plan to explore further options, before the patch officially hits.
> 
> We will address 4gate in the next patch.


----------



## Mit Namso

I'm playing on the highest and ran into the 1st hard level, level 3 with the creatures

I died once so far and havent tried since, had resource collection shortage

I guess I should build a bunch more miners(to mine) right away


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226421*
> http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2


So we'll see a return of 2 gate rushes? Cool.

I love how yesterday in 12 weeks Socke was going to explain PvP. He 4 gated in half of the games, and lost in the other half. I guess it explains PvP pretty well.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226105*
> 1 hour 5 minute TvZ on Shakuras Plateau. Pretty cool game. Starts off with me cheesing, lots and lots of battles, infestors, almost mined out, back and forth, ect ect.
> *
> Someone please watch*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention I killed 1813 units?


rofl, I'll see if I can take a look later. This was a ladder match, right?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226421*
> http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2


Darn, was just going to post this









Interesting change, while I like WGs, I would really love it if gateways were more useful









Edit: How blizzard developed SCII- [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pk8XPGoa8U&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226421*
> http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2


sounds interesting...









random newbie question: what's the best way to hold off cannon rushes as each race?

I seem to be doing okay with using my creep to my advantadge as Z, throwing down spines to counter any gateway units and teching to mutas to go and destroy their miners... but is there a better way?


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13229876*
> sounds interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> random newbie question: what's the best way to hold off cannon rushes as each race?
> 
> I seem to be doing okay with using my creep to my advantadge as Z, throwing down spines to counter any gateway units and teching to mutas to go and destroy their miners... but is there a better way?


As any of the races, kill the probe before the cannons warp in with 2-4 of your workers.

Assuming its too late and cannons are done:
T: Build bunker close to command center/mineral line and put 1 marine in it

Z: place your spawning pool in the back center and I think he wont be able to kill it off with cannons. you are most likely dealing with a cannon contain rather than being worried about dying to it. use spine crawler + roaches to kill it off (spread creep ASAP to get crawlers close enough). another option is 1 base nydus worm with speedlings to win.

P: this is the toughest to deal with, but u may be able to get a forge and 1 cannon down next to your nexus if his cannon rush comes to slowly. you should try to proxy gate zealot him back. remember to mine minerals as long as possible before moving your probes if ur base is screwed.


----------



## CramComplex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13229033*
> Edit: How blizzard developed SCII- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pk8XPGoa8U&feature=player_embedded


I LOL'ed so hard...


----------



## DoomDash

Yes it was a ladder BigFan.

They should make bunkers 35 sec again to help with gateway proxy cheese.


----------



## falco216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1 hour 5 minute TvZ on Shakuras Plateau. Pretty cool game. Starts off with me cheesing, lots and lots of battles, infestors, almost mined out, back and forth, ect ect.

Someone please watch







.



Did I mention I killed 1813 units?


Every single time he massed un-upgraded roaches I raged a little. Roaches vs Terran, why doesn't he just quit and save you the time to kill him?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *falco216*   why doesn't he just quit and save you the time to kill him?  
I think his/her nickname explains it all









  
 You Tube


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13230897*
> I think his/her nickname explains it all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMLrA_0O5I&feature=related


Yeah, I know who Boxxy is, I didn't connect his name to his playing though. Roaches vs Terran, must be trolling.


----------



## Ruckol1

Okay. Here is a zvz game I NEED some of you to look at.

I knew it was possible to lose if you outplayed your opponent always, (zvp) but I completely crushed him and still lost this one. I'm pretty sure my mistake was forcing bane lings but still..

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...delta-quadrant


----------



## falco216

I just played the weirdest ZvP ever, he blocked my nat and I raged (Like I always do) and my first thought was to all-in him, obviously. :|

That doesn't sound weird, but it is, just watch it.









http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...darim-altar-le


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


sounds interesting...









random newbie question: what's the best way to hold off cannon rushes as each race?

I seem to be doing okay with using my creep to my advantadge as Z, throwing down spines to counter any gateway units and teching to mutas to go and destroy their miners... but is there a better way?


I don't believe that I've actually been cannon rushed in a ZvsP games actually







Having said that, in a recent PvsP game, I saw my opponent go for a forge on scrap so I quickly hurried back to my base and started looking near my exp for cannons, etc... Turns out he had a pylon in the corner of my base with 2 cannons then he started to slowly add more. I tried to snipe them and tried to hold his advance using my 2 stalkers. I was able to hold on until I got WG research then I decided to put my own pressure.
I made my own forge, made a pylon near his gateways then made a cannon to start just as he decided to start attacking. I was able to hold on using 2 zealots I wrapped in+probe and then he GG'd after I was able to hold off his zealots+probes XD 
For Z, as mentioned, spread creep to your entrance ASAP and then get some roaches+place spine crawlers to pick them from a safe distance. Remember without vision, they can't attack units on a higher ground







I don't believe that there is a better way actually









Quote:



Originally Posted by *CramComplex*


I LOL'ed so hard...


lol, that was the idea









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes it was a ladder BigFan.

They should make bunkers 35 sec again to help with gateway proxy cheese.


well, we have no clue what they are planning, better to wait to see atm


----------



## Gigalisk

Guys im in Korea for the weekend. Might hit up some PCBang Action.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;13236769*
> Guys im in Korea for the weekend. Might hit up some PCBang Action.


Go to the GOM studio man. GSL starts in an hour. You don't need a ticket or anything.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;13236769*
> Guys im in Korea for the weekend. Might hit up some PCBang Action.


NICE.

Go to gom, get SC2 gear, and hook us up with some mechanical keyboard dood.

Is the only way to monitor your ladder and win loss record by autosaving replays with sc2gears? Because I assume the record would be skewed by replays of custom games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13237299*
> NICE.
> 
> Go to gom, get SC2 gear, and hook us up with some mechanical keyboard dood.
> 
> Is the only way to monitor your ladder and win loss record by autosaving replays with sc2gears? Because I assume the record would be skewed by replays of custom games.


Pretty much, I save all my ladder replays in the same folder so I get sc2gears to determine everything from that


----------



## Gigalisk

Ya'll know what part of Seoul its in?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Very good tune, string-ized pirates of the caribbean theme song on gsl.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigalisk;13238007*
> Ya'll know what part of Seoul its in?


It's in Shinjeong-dong.

Edit: found a link:
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/news/51770


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226105*
> 1 hour 5 minute TvZ on Shakuras Plateau. Pretty cool game. Starts off with me cheesing, lots and lots of battles, infestors, almost mined out, back and forth, ect ect.
> 
> Someone please watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention I killed 1813 units?


well played watched the whole thing. Nice positioning with tanks


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lazi punk;13238523*
> well played watched the whole thing. Nice positioning with tanks


I agree with this, watched the whole thing as well. Love how you guys actually mined out the entire map. One thing that I noticed that you didn't do much at the start was clear the towers. Since your opponent knew when you were advancing due to holding them, it made it more difficult for you to actually surprise him if he doesn't scout. I also wondered why you didn't stim your marines then get the BLs instead you moved back between your tanks and it wasn't pretty







Nice job with the drops though, same with the constant building units, given you cheated and started queuing up units









Had a funny TvsZ game, opponent kept on bane busting me and I was always able to recover. I think his final comments were meant as a compliment








Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/167569-1v1-terran-zerg-gutterhulk
Still need to work on not getting supply blocked and taking more bases, could've probably taken the game much sooner had I done those. After playing TvsZ the last couple of days and watching doom's replay, I really think the future of TvsZ is gonna be in multiple drops. A small MMM force can do substantial damage to an opponent's eco if they aren't quick to react and can split up your opponent's army which means you have time to actually move in to siege up or even take out his other half before they make it back


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;13230847*
> Every single time he massed un-upgraded roaches I raged a little. Roaches vs Terran, why doesn't he just quit and save you the time to kill him?


Yeah I think Muta's are much much better vs T.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13237299*
> 
> Is the only way to monitor your ladder and win loss record by autosaving replays with sc2gears? Because I assume the record would be skewed by replays of custom games.


You can sort by ladder only. Here is how:

1: Go to Replay search on the left, and clicked "new".

2: Click "Add Folders", and add the folder that your replays are auto-saving to. Do not click anything after you add this yet ( like search ).

3: Go to the top at the topish that says "search filters".

4: Enter your name

5: Enter 1v1 in Format

6: Enter AutoMM in game type.

7: Search

8: Click Auto-replay analysis. Not on the left side but in the same area you just were.

9: Double click your name.

then its like normal. LMK if you need more help.

Also thanks for watching my replay fellas.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Thx doom.

Big day today with all the pro matches. Last night's GSL was pretty good too. I couldn't stay awake to watch them all though. Stoke for today's PvT on TSL.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Ladder record in diamond:

before I stopped in March 24:


















So much win

After the break I took around March to April:


















God I hate pvp. NERF TERRAN NOW. Or give back my amulet. Sooo angry.


----------



## yks

Trent, I'm feeling you bro.


----------



## Sainesk

anyone got some good Zerg TLO/Fruitdealer/idra matches I could watch, my rank is really demotivating me from playing...


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13226105*
> 
> Did I mention I killed 1813 units?


you should see BigFan's tank micro... (inside jk







)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13245273*
> Trent, I'm feeling you bro.


Who's Trent? Yellowtoblerone?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13244751*
> Ladder record in diamond:
> 
> before I stopped in March 24:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much win
> 
> After the break I took around March to April:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God I hate pvp. NERF TERRAN NOW. Or give back my amulet. Sooo angry.


wow, that's ummm a big difference








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13246186*
> anyone got some good Zerg TLO/Fruitdealer/idra matches I could watch, my rank is really demotivating me from playing...


Being silver isn't a big deal, just continue playing like we have. If you are interested, I'm going to be going on in 5 min, we can have some TvsZ and PvsZ then








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13246228*
> you should see BigFan's tank micro... (inside jk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


rofl, yes, I have yet to post that, trying to find a site first


----------



## poroboszcz

So, I'm on a party wathing HasuObs vs Goody and TT1 vs Fenix simultanously, explaining what starcraft is to my friends, showing one of my recent replays, drinking vodka nad browsing tl and ocn sc2 thread. Do I need medical attention?


----------



## DoomDash

I'm doing the same thing w/ out the drinking.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13244751*
> Or give back my amulet.


Templar still kick major ass.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13247742*
> So, I'm on a party wathing HasuObs vs Goody and TT1 vs Fenix simultanously, explaining what starcraft is to my friends, showing one of my recent replays, drinking vodka nad browsing tl and ocn sc2 thread. Do I need medical attention?


where do you watch these games?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13247810*
> where do you watch these games?


Are you serious? You live under a rock?

http://www.justin.tv/ignproleague/

http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone/


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215919

Thoughts?

MVP saying Terran weakest. *







And as I predicted, 1.3 Zealot is being considered REALLY strong. I told you guys Protoss has been BUFFED w/ the nerf.

Now all my fav Terran players saying Terran weakest







. ( Boxer, Nada, MVP ).


----------



## ThumperSD

Give amulet back and take away the zealot buff

When was protoss considered OP? Since 1.2 & 1.3?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;13248568*
> Give amulet back and take away the zealot buff
> 
> When was protoss considered OP? Since 1.2 & 1.3?


Late 1.2. Amulet coming back @ 75 energy will never happen.


----------



## ThumperSD

What happened in late 1.2 that didnt happen in early 1.2?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;13248594*
> What happened in late 1.2 that didnt happen in early 1.2?


People learned to play Protoss man. New builds, better understanding of chrono boost ( changing around timings and upgrade importance ), that and all these new maps distance is far less important for insta warp in race. I think Protoss was the undiscovered race, but IMO I think Zerg is still undiscovered a bit too, to a lesser extent.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13248771*
> People learned to play Protoss man. New builds, better understanding of chrono boost ( changing around timings and upgrade importance ), that and all these new maps distance is far less important for insta warp in race. I think Protoss was the undiscovered race, but IMO I think Zerg is still undiscovered a bit too, to a lesser extent.


Forcefield is the big difference IMO. I remember when gamecasters used to rave about forcefield micro that any decent diamond protoss can do now. Since then every protoss has learned that good forcefield micro is not an "extra" skill that you learn to gain an edge. It's now viewed as a fundamental part of playing the race.


----------



## Allenssmart

also, tvz is now completely broken in favor of zerg. infestors are blatantly. tbh, i'd rather face a 200/200 protoss army with a critical mass of 5 colossi than face 8 infestors and a bunch of slings, with any possible army composition.


----------



## yks

idk why, but i'm having these random lapses in starcraft

some days i'll feel super inspired to play

and some days i'll feel like i never want to play this game again.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Are you serious? You live under a rock?

http://www.justin.tv/ignproleague/

http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone/










A bit rough, don't you think?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=215919

Thoughts?

MVP saying Terran weakest. *







And as I predicted, 1.3 Zealot is being considered REALLY strong. I told you guys Protoss has been BUFFED w/ the nerf.

Now all my fav Terran players saying Terran weakest







. ( Boxer, Nada, MVP ).


Funny because in Prime and Star Tale, they said Zerg was the weakest, Terran super strong and Protoss close to Terran's level. Now in IM, they are split









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


idk why, but i'm having these random lapses in starcraft

some days i'll feel super inspired to play

and some days i'll feel like i never want to play this game again.


Nothing wrong with that, I have days where I grind a lot(read 8-10 ladder games 2 days back







) to yesterday where I didn't think it was a good idea to ladder. I think part of it is if you think you can win the games. If I don't think I can win some ladder games/not in the mood, I won't ladder









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


People learned to play Protoss man. New builds, better understanding of chrono boost ( changing around timings and upgrade importance ), that and all these new maps distance is far less important for insta warp in race. I think Protoss was the undiscovered race, but IMO I think Zerg is still undiscovered a bit too, to a lesser extent.


Yes indeed true. I think every player in every race has improved to some degree and more of each units' races are being used(prisms, etc...). I remember when I started laddering back in Sept, it was the same strat and no transition. As long as you beat the first attack, some would GG, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13253266*
> 
> Funny because in Prime and Star Tale, they said Zerg was the weakest, Terran super strong and Protoss close to Terran's level. Now in IM, they are split


Didn't they say that awhile ago? That's what Artosis said... things changed since map changes.

Also I love Losira's comments on why he switched to Zerg, the simple easy to do micro. That's what I've been telling you.


----------



## Sainesk

fungal growth is so OP... disable, and can't move, and damage, and you can cast them right after one another... oh annnd detection...

*rage*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13256770*
> fungal growth is so OP... disable, and can't move, and damage, and you can cast them right after one another... oh annnd detection...
> 
> *rage*


You cannot unload and siege, which is pretty bull****.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13256803*
> You cannot unload and siege, which is pretty bull****.


Well, the whole idea of FG is that you can't move at all, thus no seiging/unseiging. Don't ask how you can still shoot though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13256708*
> Didn't they say that awhile ago? That's what Artosis said... things changed since map changes.
> 
> Also I love Losira's comments on why he switched to Zerg, the simple easy to do micro. That's what I've been telling you.


no clue, I just saw that comment in the OP of that thread. As for the micro, you guys made it sound like Z has no micro at all and hyped up TvsZ micro to crazy heights when is when I stepped in and mentioned that there is still some micro in Z games








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13256770*
> fungal growth is so OP... disable, and can't move, and damage, and you can cast them right after one another... oh annnd detection...
> 
> *rage*


well, you switched to Z so not sure why you're raging now when you should've as T


----------



## DoomDash

Of course there is some micro in ZvT, it's just easy.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13257067*
> 
> well, you switched to Z so not sure why you're raging now when you should've as T


I got pwned, me 3 base roaches vs 1 base roach + infestor -.-

oh well lesson learned: abuse like crazy till nerf...


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

I will be playing the WCG qualifiers, first opponent is a Master Z. Wish me luck.

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4059

Rest of the brackets :

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4056

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4057

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4058


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.banelingbbq.com/?comic=12


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So dumb, OF COURSE it shoudln't be able to land.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13258715*
> I will be playing the WCG qualifiers, first opponent is a Master Z. Wish me luck.
> 
> http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4059
> 
> Rest of the brackets :
> 
> http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4056
> 
> http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4057
> 
> http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4058


Good luck!


----------



## dcloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I will be playing the WCG qualifiers, first opponent is a Master Z. Wish me luck.

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4059

Rest of the brackets :

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4056

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4057

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4058


NICE!! Good luck to you sir.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I will be playing the WCG qualifiers, first opponent is a Master Z. Wish me luck.

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4059

Rest of the brackets :

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4056

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4057

http://us.wcg.com/?page=stem_schedule&stageid=4058


Good Luck, we're all cheering for you!









rofl @ cc comic


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks for the support. One day I'll make Overclock.net proud.

Also if I don't make it in this one, I signed up for 3 different qualifiers since they have 8







.


----------



## Hank Scorpio

good luck!


----------



## dropkickninja

Best of luck Doom!


----------



## Sainesk

mothership doesn't count for frugal fighter achievement?


----------



## DoomDash

Current ladder only.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Terran scum...

Good luck.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Terran scum...

Good luck.










BTW, that was such a bizzare game that Van played last night. They should've taken that 2-0 if we were not to include Schneider's puck passing mistakes. Let's just hope that they can hang on and win it in game 7









Protoss 300 Food Push? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=216396


----------



## Lazorbeam

Patch 1.4 wish list:

The goal is to make the game more diverse, fun and less frustrating. *I realize that the changes below would probably throw the game out of balance. The changes I propose fix fundamental issues with the game, fine-tuning can be done later. Some changes I propose have little impact on balance and only make the game less tedious and more diverse (see warpgate + minimap).*

My credentials are: Currently 600+ (top 3000 world) rated master player recently returned to sc2. Before leaving the game in December, I was ranked top 1500 world. I'm not providing much input for zerg/terran because I don't play those races.

*Protoss:*
*- First to address the upcoming warpgate change:* Increasing the research time seems fair. Increasing the cooldown on warpgates will accomplish little, besides requiring protoss players to 5-gate rather than 4-gate. Warp gate research should actually be _reduced_ if my proposed chono-boost change goes in effect.
*- Make Force-fields destructible (maybe the HP of a bunker?):* It seems that protoss play has become almost 100% centered on early massing sentry and making good use of FF. A SINGLE misplaced FF vs zerg means defeat, and I think that's a problem. Making mistakes should cost you, but a single click should not end the game. FF completely negates most forms of early rushes, I think that making it destructible will open up all sorts of strategies. In compensation...
*- Decrease Stalker build time: *This would allow protoss players to fend off early roach pushes more efficiently, given destructible FFs. In addition...
*- Buff Zealot run speed to that of a marine:* Protoss _always_ tech straight to stalker because zealots are infinitely kite-able by marines. This still won't make zealot rushes viable (especially given the pylon change) but at least I won't need to tech fast every single game.
*- Reduce chrono-boost energy cost to 20 (down from 25) and make upgrades non-boostable:* This will help early-game protoss and promote early/mid-game pushes rather than turtling/massing every single game. Seeing how some protoss rely on chrono-boosting upgrades for certain strategies (which makes upgrades take almost a minute less to complete), I think reducing upgrade time would be fair (20 seconds seems like a good number).
*- Nerf Colossus (range or damage?)*: Colossus are a crutch in every single match up. This is probably an indication that Colossus are too strong. Bioball? Colossus. Roach/hydra/sling/infestor? Colossus. PvP? 4-gate into colossus. Of course, the idea is to nerf one unit and provide compensation elsewhere, resulting in a more _diverse_ game. I can already hear protoss players crying (myself including) but I think this is a step in the right direction. In compensation...
*- Decrease Immortal build time.*
*- Make upgraded Warp Prism speed baseline:* Prisms are not used nearly enough. Boosting their speed will open up all sorts of protoss strategies. Combined with the following change Prism play could add fun and diversity to protoss...
*- Allow players to warp in units using the minimap:* Honestly, this will open more strategies than you can imagine (including prism drops).
*- Nerf pylons:* No, really. PvP right now is a complete cheese-fest. Even at the upper echelons of master league, proxy-cheese is absolutely rampant. Forgot to scout the 1 square at the top of your base? Sorry, you lose. Additionally, canon-rushing at all levels of play has to go. Pylon-blocking a zerg FE should not be so easy/cheap. I propose the following change to pylons:
Nexus Aura: provides power similar to pylons/activated warp prism. Very large range. Keeps buildings powered but drains 1 energy per second while doing so. Gates require a pylon as usual.
Pylons take 20-30s (pick a number, really) longer to warp in. Nexus aura makes pylons warp in Xs fast (relative to the above nerf, of course).
As a result, normal protoss play is completely unchanged, while proxy-cheese is nerfed.

*Zerg:*
- Nerf FG so it doesn't 1-shot an entire army.

*Terran:*
- Nerf mule.
- Nerf AA range of viking.

Looking forward to some *intelligent discussion and feedback from accomplished players.*


----------



## dcloud

Those are some really great concepts to look into.

I don't play Protoss, so I can't say too much. But, I play a lot against them









I really like the idea of having the Forcefield be destructible. I also wouldn't mind having the Forcefield cost more energy and last shorter.

The only thing I'm not a fan of is warping in units using the mini-map (I'm assuming anywhere with a matrix). The mini-map should be left alone in terms of gameplay. I feel it defeats the purpose of the game. If a player works on their multi-tasking, they should have no problems warping units in anywhere on the map.


----------



## DoomDash

Viking range and colossus range should both be 8.

Mules don't really need a nerf. Blizzard planned these out very well, and the math around them allows Terran pretty much the same rate of in come if you average all the times you are forced to use it for other things like scans. Also once you destroy Terran's SCV's he would have no way to come back even if he had money to replace scvs. If you did this you would have to nerf chrono boost and the ability to make so many drones at one time.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dcloud;13265663*
> The only thing I'm not a fan of is warping in units using the mini-map (I'm assuming anywhere with a matrix). The mini-map should be left alone in terms of gameplay. I feel it defeats the purpose of the game. If a player works on their multi-tasking, they should have no problems warping units in anywhere on the map.


It's not a matter of multi-tasking or balance, it's a matter of ergonomics. As terran, for example, you would press 5 keys to make 4 marines, and this can be done in a second flat. As protoss, you need to center your screen, then hit 4 keys and click at least 4 times, then center your camera again. It's lame and annoying. If a player really wants some accurate warp-ins, then he or she can certainly do it conventionally as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13266454*
> Viking range and colossus range should both be 8.
> 
> Mules don't really need a nerf. Blizzard planned these out very well, and the math around them allows Terran pretty much the same rate of in come if you average all the times you are forced to use it for other things like scans. Also once you destroy Terran's SCV's he would have no way to come back even if he had money to replace scvs. If you did this you would have to nerf chrono boost and the ability to make so many drones at one time.


Fair enough, the reasoning behind the change is that if FF becomes destructible, you'll see early game open up with stim rushes etc. This is fine, I think rine/rauder rushes *should* be an option and not completely negated by a single unit with a forcefield. See what I mean? FF is lame because it closes the game right up. As toss, I think early terran would be too powerful when backed by mule income (it's more significant than most think).


----------



## DoomDash

My 1.4 would be:

*Protoss:*

- Archons made to massive
- Colossus range 8 and -1 damage per attack

*Terran:*

- Siege Tanks +8 per upgrade level instead of +5
- Ghosts changed to 125-125, EMP changed to 100 energy to cast, snipe made 46 damage ( to two shot infestors ). Or snipe damage increased by +2 per infantry upgrade level.
- Reapers build time -5 seconds.
- Nukes damage increased from 500 to buildings to 600 to buildings.
- Max supply increased to 210

*Zerg:*

- FG no longer makes a unit unable to move, instead slows movement speed by 70%.
- Baneling cost increased to 50/25, and made .5 more supply.
- Hydra gains 25% movement speed off creep compared to now.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13267129*
> My 1.4 would be:
> 
> *Protoss:*
> 
> - Archons made to massive
> - Colossus range 8 and -1 damage per attack
> 
> *Terran:*
> 
> - Siege Tanks +8 per upgrade level instead of +5
> - Ghosts changed to 125-125, EMP changed to 100 energy to cast, snipe made 46 damage ( to two shot infestors ). Or snipe damage increased by +2 per infantry upgrade level.
> - Reapers build time -5 seconds.
> - Nukes damage increased from 500 to buildings to 600 to buildings.
> - Max supply increased to 210
> 
> *Zerg:*
> 
> - FG no longer makes a unit unable to move, instead slows movement speed by 70%.
> - Baneling cost increased to 50/25, and made .5 more supply.
> - Hydra gains 25% movement speed off creep compared to now.


What is the reasoning behind the archon change? I haven't put much thought into them, but at the moment they're rarely used.

I really like the snipe tweak. Reapers are hardly EVER used besides for scouting so a change there would be welcome.

I'm assuming that the 210 supply change is to offset army imbalances late-game? If there is no way a terran can build an army equal to another in the late game, there's a bigger problem that needs to be taken care of (colossus right now, most likely).

Banelings are too powerful. I think 50/25 is probably too much. Even 30/25 or 35/25 would make a big difference. Maybe 25/30? Keep in mind, if FG was changed to 70 and banes made 50/25, zerg would be overnerfed (I think).


----------



## Wishmaker

Those baneling comics are awesome!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13267249*
> What is the reasoning behind the archon change? I haven't put much thought into them, but at the moment they're rarely used.
> 
> I really like the snipe tweak. Reapers are hardly EVER used besides for scouting so a change there would be welcome.
> 
> I'm assuming that the 210 supply change is to offset army imbalances late-game? If there is no way a terran can build an army equal to another in the late game, there's a bigger problem that needs to be taken care of (colossus right now, most likely).
> 
> Banelings are too powerful. I think 50/25 is probably too much. Even 30/25 or 35/25 would make a big difference. Maybe 25/30? Keep in mind, if FG was changed to 70 and banes made 50/25, zerg would be overnerfed (I think).


35/25 would be fine but it's just odd to do things in SC like that kind of number. I think they should be .5 supply more too though.

The reason I say 210 supply cap for Terran is because of that post BigFan posted. If you are 200/200 w/ Protoss, or even Zerg with lots of save larva, you can re-max so much faster than Terran. I don't think 10 supply is that much to ask for, especially considering we have nothing to make us warp in across the map, or nydus to the other side instantly.

Also Archons would be pretty good in PvT IMO if they werent slowed.


----------



## Twistacles

If archons were massive they could break forcefields and be viable in PvP, moving the game away from collosus wars


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13266717*
> It's not a matter of multi-tasking or balance, it's a matter of ergonomics. As terran, for example, you would press 5 keys to make 4 marines, and this can be done in a second flat. As protoss, you need to center your screen, then hit 4 keys and click at least 4 times, then center your camera again. It's lame and annoying. If a player really wants some accurate warp-ins, then he or she can certainly do it conventionally as well.


I don't see the issue with binding a pylon, tapping it, holding z or whatever and just clicking a lot

Takes no more time than terran macro


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13267868*
> If archons were massive they could break forcefields and be viable in PvP, moving the game away from collosus wars


That's true too







.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13267868*
> If archons were massive they could break forcefields and be viable in PvP, moving the game away from collosus wars


It's a step in the right direction but would definitely not change how PvP is played. FF becomes a non-issue late game seeing how it's all about colossus/blinksters.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13267935*
> I don't see the issue with binding a pylon, tapping it, holding z or whatever and just clicking a lot
> 
> Takes no more time than terran macro


Terran macro is done in less than 2 seconds and your attention isn't taken away from the screen.

Binding a pylon is fine but you can't bind every location you're warping into. I forgot an important step to warping as well; selecting the units and rallying them to your army. It's an extra 2-3 seconds, but more importantly your attention is diverted from the screen.

What I'm saying is that minimap warping wouldn't hurt. It's an improvement so why not?

On the same topic, is it possible to unload units from a dropship using the minimap (sure hope so)?


----------



## DoomDash

Depending on where you have a pylon you could still be on the same screen any action is going on. And Terran may not have to build like that, but they still have to go back and send them in to reinforce or make sure they aren't cut off along the way ect.

Also drops w/ minimap probably would end up being not worth it because it would be pretty hard to accurate drop. I don't mind taking a few seconds out of my time to make sure my medivac full of units doesn't die to some static d or something.


----------



## Lazorbeam

The point still stands; there's no reason _not_ to allow it. Inaccurate warping is a moot point - by the same logic rallying should not exist given that you can accidentally rally units to their death.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13266717*
> It's not a matter of multi-tasking or balance, it's a matter of ergonomics. As terran, for example, you would press 5 keys to make 4 marines, and this can be done in a second flat. As protoss, you need to center your screen, then hit 4 keys and click at least 4 times, then center your camera again. It's lame and annoying. If a player really wants some accurate warp-ins, then he or she can certainly do it conventionally as well.


Actually, you just hit one key, hold Z and click 4 times. How can you compare two completely different mechanics? You say it's not a matter of "balance," but that's exactly what it needs to be. Yeah, Protoss might require a little more micro, but it all evens out. I have no idea why we're even comparing rax to warp-ins.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13268092*
> Binding a pylon is fine but you can't bind every location you're warping into. I forgot an important step to warping as well; selecting the units and rallying them to your army. It's an extra 2-3 seconds, but more importantly your attention is diverted from the screen.


I'll make you a deal. I'll talk to Browder. I'll ask him if he can make it so that you don't have to change your Gateways into Warp Gates. Better yet, I'll ask him for the ability to shift them back and forth! That way you can have just as many buttons to press as Terran.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If we're going to discuss things that are never used, buff carriers and give some anti air to protoss.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13269008*
> If we're going to discuss things that are never used, buff carriers and give some anti air to protoss.


Never heard of stalkers?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

rofl, you compared stalkers to corruptors and vikings?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13267129*
> My 1.4 would be:
> 
> *Zerg:*
> 
> - FG no longer makes a unit unable to move, instead slows movement speed by 70%.
> - Baneling cost increased to 50/25, and made .5 more supply.
> - Hydra gains 25% movement speed off creep compared to now.


That would be the end of banelings, and it would make the maxed zerg army even more pathetic against the maxed terran and protoss armies. The hydra change would be nice, but it's really not enough.

Hydras:

1) expensive
2) fragile
3) slow off creep
4) have no special abilities, which is quite lame for a unit of this cost.

Fixing speed would help, but hydra would still be a unit that protoss forces zerg to make so it can be slaughtered later, and hydra would still be awful against any terran army with tanks. Hydra should really have more hit points so that it doesn't get vaporized whenever a colossus or a siege tank is present.


----------



## Twistacles

Tbh I think all this balance discussion takes away from what we should really be talking about, and that is using the existing tools already at our disposal.

I used to whine about how bad BIO was in TvP, and now I don't even use it. It's all about Thors, banshees and battlecruisers baby!


----------



## Ruckol1

How about 1.4 includes a "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO SURRENDER" window. I've lost a few games intending to go to options and hitting surrender by accident, or having someone who has clearly lost say "gg" then his pause and I just hit surrender instinctively right away.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13269382*
> rofl, you compared stalkers to corruptors and vikings?


You have voidrays and phoenix, both crazy good. Vikings are pretty ****ty outside of a few very specific tasks.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=216477

Interesting.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=216477

Interesting.


Terran has a lot of sick players that's for sure. Just like BW, I think Terran rewards players with the highest skill set. I've thought Terran was the best race played perfect even in BW days. That's why I picked them, no race rewards skills more. Terran will always attract the best players because of this.


----------



## DoomDash

patch 1.3.3 on PTR!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662

About time for Archon change.

Ghost change... kind of random. I like it being cheaper gas but 200 minerals, wow.

Salvage is understandable.

No bunker time decrease to compensate for all these fast gateway units? Proxy gates are back..... and stronger.


----------



## yks

ROFL WAFL

Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.

Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

*** M8?


----------



## murderbymodem

There's a reason for the Public Test Realm guys. If it doesn't work they won't do it...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


There's a reason for the Public Test Realm guys. If it doesn't work they won't do it...


I don't think that's entirely true. I don't think many people spend time on here testing these things seriously, like me most come to screw around.


----------



## Twistacles

Can someone kindly add me to the OCN sc2ranks list? Twist.694

As for the patch notes, I like all the changes. Don't care about bunker change.


----------



## ____

This just in: pylons are more imba than MMM, and are nerfed first.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Patch 16: 2-gate Zealot rush removed as per build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 17: 2-gate Zealot rush reintroduced as per build time decreased from 38 to 33.

Patch 1.1.0: 2-gate Zealot rush removed as per build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 1.3.3: 2-gate Zealot rush reintroduced as per build time decreased from 38 to 33.

Patch 1.7: Zealot build time changed to 36, because it was too hard to make up our minds.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Salvage should return no more than 50% of resources. Reducing it to 75% is a pretty small penalty. I don't see it significantly altering the risk/reward math on bunker rushes from the Terran player's standpoint. Zergs will still get 0% salvage on all the lings, spinecrawlers, and roaches they get stuck with if they hold off the rush, which means the Terran player still comes out ahead after salvage at 75%.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Ghost change... kind of random. I like it being cheaper gas but 200 minerals, wow.


I'm just a newb but I reckon

something like 150/100 would be fairer for ghosts...

and as for the zealot thing, I think they should keep the slower time but give them an energy ability, like the sprint one from aiur chef. Sure it would make their twilight council upgrade almost useless but it would give a reason for protoss players to get them out quicker (before warp-gates) to get their energy up...


----------



## ____

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I'm just a newb but I reckon something like 150/100 would be fairer for ghosts...


but teh terrans has the infinite minrals!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *____*


but teh terrans has the infinite minrals!


it might work if they fix mules...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Can someone kindly add me to the OCN sc2ranks list? Twist.694


You can add your self just click manage characters and find your sc2ranks url or your battle.net profile url then add.

Terrible night. 4-11. I can't believe people win TvZ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13267129*
> My 1.4 would be:
> *Terran:*
> 
> - Siege Tanks +8 per upgrade level instead of +5
> - Ghosts changed to 125-125, EMP changed to 100 energy to cast, snipe made 46 damage ( to two shot infestors ). Or snipe damage increased by +2 per infantry upgrade level.
> - Reapers build time -5 seconds.
> - Nukes damage increased from 500 to buildings to 600 to buildings.
> - Max supply increased to 210
> 
> *Zerg:*
> 
> - FG no longer makes a unit unable to move, instead slows movement speed by 70%.
> - Baneling cost increased to 50/25, and made .5 more supply.
> - Hydra gains 25% movement speed off creep compared to now.


A little bias to Terran aren't we?







Either way, I think increasing nuke damage, reducing reaper build time are good changes. Not sure about max supply, ghosts(should be able to take out infestors in 2 shots atm) and tanks








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13267868*
> If archons were massive they could break forcefields and be viable in PvP, moving the game away from collosus wars


Yes, but, then consider how they do against other units that are designed to go up against massive. VRs come to mind. Archons were the only unit in SCII that had a biological tag or whatever their tag is, so, they were pretty unique and took no extra damage from anything. Personally, I think they should have left them as is and just made them immune to concussive shells








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13268092*
> It's a step in the right direction but would definitely not change how PvP is played. FF becomes a non-issue late game seeing how it's all about colossus/blinksters.
> 
> Terran macro is done in less than 2 seconds and your attention isn't taken away from the screen.
> 
> Binding a pylon is fine but you can't bind every location you're warping into. I forgot an important step to warping as well; selecting the units and rallying them to your army. It's an extra 2-3 seconds, but more importantly your attention is diverted from the screen.
> 
> What I'm saying is that minimap warping wouldn't hurt. It's an improvement so why not?
> 
> On the same topic, is it possible to unload units from a dropship using the minimap (sure hope so)?


Not possible to unload afaik. As for WG, while I think your idea is pretty nice, I really think WGs are the main reason that Protoss seems broken with the constant 4 gate vs. 4 gate in PvsP games. It's too bad they can't remove WG because prisms wouldn't work as well and those are pretty interesting concept wise.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13269382*
> rofl, you compared stalkers to corruptors and vikings?


I believe he was talking about AA for ground units, not air








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13269570*
> That would be the end of banelings, and it would make the maxed zerg army even more pathetic against the maxed terran and protoss armies. The hydra change would be nice, but it's really not enough.
> 
> Hydras:
> 
> 1) expensive
> 2) fragile
> 3) slow off creep
> 4) have no special abilities, which is quite lame for a unit of this cost.
> 
> Fixing speed would help, but hydra would still be a unit that protoss forces zerg to make so it can be slaughtered later, and hydra would still be awful against any terran army with tanks. Hydra should really have more hit points so that it doesn't get vaporized whenever a colossus or a siege tank is present.


I disagree, they are expensive but in ZvsZ games, they rule against mutas and against P, they make up the powerful roach+hydra push. Given, I don't use hydras against P.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13272584*
> patch 1.3.3 on PTR!
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
> 
> About time for Archon change.
> 
> Ghost change... kind of random. I like it being cheaper gas but 200 minerals, wow.
> 
> Salvage is understandable.
> 
> No bunker time decrease to compensate for all these fast gateway units? Proxy gates are back..... and stronger.


Interesting change, I like WG research time, will change PvsP slightly, same with the pylon radius(delta anyone?). I think they raised minerals so that you still have to pay for the ghost, just not in gas


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Good way to start a new day with a win on ladder. Last night/morning's gsl code s matches were a bit crazy. Inca vs rainbow was pretty rofl. It showcased some of the op aspect of terran and how mistakes kill.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13268763*
> Actually, you just hit one key, hold Z and click 4 times. How can you compare two completely different mechanics? You say it's not a matter of "balance," but that's exactly what it needs to be. Yeah, Protoss might require a little more micro, but it all evens out. I have no idea why we're even comparing rax to warp-ins.
> 
> Better yet, I'll ask him for the ability to shift them back and forth! That way you can have just as many buttons to press as Terran.


You're right, it doesn't really matter how terran/zerg produce their units. All I'm asking for less tedious mechanics. If zerg was allowed to inject faster, I wouldn't object that. It would allow them to focus their attention elsewhere and be more effective players. It would make the game more interesting and more fun. There's nothing wrong about that at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13269008*
> If we're going to discuss things that are never used, buff carriers and give some anti air to protoss.


I kind of forgot about carriers, perhaps they haven't found their niche but it's been a pretty long time since release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13273347*
> ROFL WAFL
> 
> Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
> 
> Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.
> 
> Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
> 
> Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
> 
> *** M8?


I don't think people necessarily understand the gateway changes. Pretty meaningless outside of zealot rushes vs zerg. In the current state of the game;
- Zerg cannot be rushed as protoss. Even a 10 gate on a small map will not work against a 13/14 pool.
- The extra 5 seconds may or may not change this.
- Otherwise, the change only means protoss will build units slightly faster while warp gate is being researched; the change isn't really that meaningful.
- Pylons nerfed like I asked for. This is a good change, a slight step in the right direction and probably enough to fix high-level cheese.

Edit: As for the archon change, I'm not sure if they'll find a spot vs rauders. Zealots are very effective but I'm thinking archons will still evaporate before hitting their target. Why spend nearly 200m/300g on an archon when you can spend 300 minerals on zealots with far more survivability? Granted, archons have more dps but zealots have way more uptime. Time will tell.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13276897*
> Good way to start a new day with a win on ladder. Last night/morning's gsl code s matches were a bit crazy. Inca vs rainbow was pretty rofl. It showcased some of the op aspect of terran and how mistakes kill.


Nice, rainbow is still competing? For some bizzare reason, since I haven't heard about him since the first GSL, I thought he just left or something








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13276960*
> Edit: As for the archon change, I'm not sure if they'll find a spot vs rauders. Zealots are very effective but I'm thinking archons will still evaporate before hitting their target. Why spend nearly 200m/300g on an archon when you can spend 300 minerals on zealots with far more survivability? Granted, archons have more dps but zealots have way more uptime. Time will tell.


Thing is, you'll be making archon after your hts have used their energy up for storming so its a bonus. I'm guessing you are talking about getting archons from the get go?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13277196*
> Thing is, you'll be making archon after your hts have used their energy up for storming so its a bonus. I'm guessing you are talking about getting archons from the get go?


Well, at a pro level HTs are rarely warped into archons even at low energy. They're more valuable when/if pulled back. A single storm does way more damage than an archon will do in an entire fight. Hopefully this will change, but I have my doubts.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13277398*
> Well, at a pro level HTs are rarely warped into archons even at low energy. They're more valuable when/if pulled back. A single storm does way more damage than an archon will do in an entire fight. Hopefully this will change, but I have my doubts.


I see, fair enough


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13277398*
> Well, at a pro level HTs are rarely warped into archons even at low energy. They're more valuable when/if pulled back. A single storm does way more damage than an archon will do in an entire fight. Hopefully this will change, but I have my doubts.


Uh, this isn't true at all. I guess at "low" energy when they're close to another storm, sure. But any "pro" will instantly warp an Archon if his HTs get EMP'd. Most of the time, Archons get morphed even after expending all the energy on storms.

I'm not sure where you get "rarely" on the "pro level." You say you're in the Master league, too. I'm Master as well and I see them all of the time. They're also warped in pretty much every late-game battle in PvT on GSL as well. If that's not "pro level" then I don't know what is.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sometimes, I think I'll never get out of diamond. I just almost lost to a top8 gold zerg in a macro game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13278733*
> Sometimes, I think I'll never get out of diamond. I just almost lost to a top8 gold zerg in a macro game.


rofl, for all you know that gold Zerg could've been on his way to a promotion to diamond or something









Edit: 2999 posts, almost 3000!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13278071*
> Uh, this isn't true at all. I guess at "low" energy when they're close to another storm, sure. But any "pro" will instantly warp an Archon if his HTs get EMP'd. Most of the time, Archons get morphed even after expending all the energy on storms.
> 
> I'm not sure where you get "rarely" on the "pro level." You say you're in the Master league, too. I'm Master as well and I see them all of the time. They're also warped in pretty much every late-game battle in PvT on GSL as well. If that's not "pro level" then I don't know what is.


Pro is short for professional, ie GSL or similar skill-wise. Most master players are far from pro.

HTs will get morphed as a last resort, nobody in their right mind would lose 2 HTs for an archon vs EMP when they can otherwise be saved.


----------



## onoz

I'm never getting out of bronze.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13279695*
> Pro is short for professional, ie GSL or similar skill-wise. Most master players are far from pro.
> 
> HTs will get morphed as a last resort, nobody in their right mind would lose 2 HTs for an archon vs EMP when they can otherwise be saved.


Yeah you don't know what you're talking about. The best Protoss in the world insta-warp Archons when they get EMP'd in GSL. They do that because having Archons instead of worthless HT can be the difference maker in a big battle, and therefore, the game. If you want me to give you about 50 example VODs when I get home from work (assuming you have all of the GSL season passes like I do), then I would be happy to.

edit: ...and I know that Master is faaaaaaar from pro. It was a rhetorical question, because I watch pretty much every high level tournament I can and I see Archons in nearly every single game where Protoss get HT.


----------



## thiru

You guys should totally have a grudge match.


----------



## DoomDash

Man Terran sucks.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man Terran sucks.


Are you playing on the PTR? I'm not sure if it's up, I'm still at work







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


Are you playing on the PTR? I'm not sure if it's up, I'm still at work







.


No I'm not. It was up yesterday though.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man Terran sucks.


I suggest smurfing as random. =)


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man Terran sucks.


switch to Toss... only because I wanna see how long Gmaster would take you then...


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


switch to Toss... only because I wanna see how long Gmaster would take you then...


5-10 games probably


----------



## Alex132

Lol only saw this now, awesome XD

Anyone here on the EU server?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


Lol only saw this now, awesome XD

Anyone here on the EU server?


Me, and few not very active players. Check out overclock.net channel on bnet, I always idle there when I'm online.


----------



## Alex132

Ah good idea, I hate the way they did this Season 2 ranking. I mean I was all set to get into a good league for 1v1 then the guy I'm playing against insta-quits. So I got a score of like 0.1 XD
Put into bottom of the bottom of bronze


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Just got promoted to Silver. Aww yeaa


----------



## Alex132

for what league







?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


I suggest smurfing as random. =)


I agree, no reason to keep your huggle account as Z only









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


5-10 games probably


lol, a bit bias aren't we?







I don't think he'll get there for a while if he went for P, mostly has to do with the different timing pushes and different BOs for P which I don't think he would know without experience. Guessing on my part so I could be totally wrong, feel free to correct me









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Just got promoted to Silver. Aww yeaa










What league? Congrats either way


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, a bit bias aren't we?







I don't think he'll get there for a while if he went for P, mostly has to do with the different timing pushes and different BOs for P which I don't think he would know without experience. Guessing on my part so I could be totally wrong, feel free to correct me










You know me


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man Terran sucks.


Half of the TSL round of 4 is Terran. Thorzain beat MC to get in.


----------



## Sainesk

just wondering, does marineking still go mass marines (with medivacs) no matter what the opponent builds? how does he deal with Colossi? does he ever throw in a few vikings?

stimmed marines are so fun...


----------



## Alex132

7 rax is very fun XD


----------



## Allenssmart

OMG GUYS! Pylo the pylon has finally gone green!

Pylon power radius decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. Being a dedicated member of the Kyoto Protocol, pylo is now cutting down on power usage to become more environmentally friendly! Estimated power cuts are 540 000 peta watts! Reporters from the now overrun planet of Aiur have confirmed that the zerg are feasting on this excess energy. So much for going green, more like going for green acid bombs.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Good way to start a new day with a win on ladder. Last night/morning's gsl code s matches were a bit crazy. Inca vs rainbow was pretty rofl. It showcased some of the op aspect of terran and how mistakes kill.


Rain, not Rainbow.

Rainbow will sh it ALL OVER Rain.


----------



## DoomDash

I won my first WCG qualifier game







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I won my first WCG qualifier game







.


Congrats, wouldn't have expected otherwise


----------



## Ruckol1

vdek I see you in Idra's stream!

p.s. need help against mech in my zvt matchup. I'm just not sure what the best unit composition should be. I usually win economically by a mile but aren't sure what to do with all ma moneys!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13285722*
> vdek I see you in Idra's stream!
> 
> p.s. need help against mech in my zvt matchup. I'm just not sure what the best unit composition should be. I usually win economically by a mile but aren't sure what to do with all ma moneys!


Infestors?







They seem to be the answer for everything, that and aside from the thor, mech builds lack AA


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13286136*
> Infestors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to be the answer for everything, that and aside from the thor, mech builds lack AA


This guy was on two bases and had about 8 or 9 thors I'd guess. and 10+ siege tanks =\ I had mutas but couldn't really dent the tank count cause the thors chewed through my mutas, and my banelings/speedlings (2/2) couldn't do much to the thors.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13286136*
> Infestors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to be the answer for everything, that and aside from the thor, mech builds lack AA


NP > Thor's.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13286515*
> NP > Thor's.


I'm gonna wanna practice some zvt this week if your available?


----------



## Alex132

Gotta say love playing as random,
What I have found so far with the 3 races
Terran - Easy to use, forgiving
Protoss - Not as easy to use, good mid-late game (ball-o-doom unit mass)
Zerg - APM intensive and unforgiving, unit combo more reaction linked, most fun of the 3


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13286400*
> This guy was on two bases and had about 8 or 9 thors I'd guess. and 10+ siege tanks =\ I had mutas but couldn't really dent the tank count cause the thors chewed through my mutas, and my banelings/speedlings (2/2) couldn't do much to the thors.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13286515*
> NP > Thor's.


Fair enough. Personally, I would've just massed slings and run them in. Even if you lost half going in, the splash damage from the tanks onto each other and the thors once they get a surround is worth it or you could just target the thors with the slings. Then have a second run with more slings and the mutas to finish them off and get rid of the tanks. Given you'll need resources for that but I always have extra minerals lying around so why not?









Had a long crazy PvsZ on meta and ended up winning. My Zerg opponent switched compositions throughout the game but so did I







Thought I'll put up the replay because it was really intense at some points especially some of the later battles: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/169486-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis#rd:upgrades
To anyone who watches, enjoy!


----------



## DoomDash

*Finally* got my Thor icon!!!

Bonus 500th win replay of me doing a 6 rax marine all in against a Zerg player ( TLO style minus one rax ). I was really sick of playing at this point, and especially being crushed by Zerg. I thought I lost this game but he didn't add any more banes at home!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13289311*
> *Finally* got my Thor icon!!!
> 
> Bonus 500th win replay of me doing a 6 rax marine all in against a Zerg player ( TLO style minus one rax ). I was really sick of playing at this point, and especially being crushed by Zerg. I thought I lost this game but he didn't add any more banes at home!


I was having a lot of trouble vs zerg too, losing about 75% of my matches. I spoke to my long time friend xiLost (world rank 209 grandmaster zerg) and he told me that the key is to "feign" pressure while the game goes into macro mode. I threw together a weird strategy where I go 11 gate and chrono out a zealot straight into drones, then research hallucination and purposely let the zerg player see that I have a phoenix sitting around. It's just a matter of winning metagame I think.

Not sure how this relates to terran, but maybe you can integrate this advice with your game.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13279750*
> Yeah you don't know what you're talking about. The best Protoss in the world insta-warp Archons when they get EMP'd in GSL. They do that because having Archons instead of worthless HT can be the difference maker in a big battle, and therefore, the game. If you want me to give you about 50 example VODs when I get home from work (assuming you have all of the GSL season passes like I do), then I would be happy to.
> 
> edit: ...and I know that Master is faaaaaaar from pro. It was a rhetorical question, because I watch pretty much every high level tournament I can and I see Archons in nearly every single game where Protoss get HT.


I think we're talking about 2 different things, but I would love to see 50 replays where HTs are merged when they can be saved (thinking of getting a GSL pass).


----------



## Vuashke

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=216428

Discuss.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vuashke*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=216428

Discuss.


Care to copy the thread here? Work







.


----------



## Vuashke

it's 10 pages long


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vuashke*


it's 10 pages long


I figured the OP would have something of interest in it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I figured the OP would have something of interest in it.


I think this was a repost on TL. Either way:
Dustin Browder, lead designer for StarCraft II at Blizzard Entertainment, is pretty good at his own game. A few months ago, he was ranked around the top 7 percent in the world, although he admits he's a bit rusty, and may now only be in the top 10 percent.

For a large portion of StarCraft II's players, it's that competitive aspect that matters most -- not only playing directly against other players, but also being compared to other players through the game's extensive Battle.net ranking system.

StarCraft II and its Battle.net framework were made with competitive gaming and eSports largely in mind, and updating a game as a sport was a creatively restrictive experience, Browder told Gamasutra in a recent interview.

The lead designer, who previously worked on real-time strategy games in Electronic Arts' Command & Conquer series, said he had to make creative adjustments when he joined the StarCraft II team. For him, the main hurdle was learning how to take some of the "fun" stuff out of the game.

"It took me a year and a half to figure this out," said Browder, an enthusiastic designer who might also be around the top 10 percent in the world in terms of speed-talking.

"I kept trying to shove stuff in that was fun but wasn't a sport," he said. "And everybody would tell me 'no,' and I wouldn't understand why. And I thought they were all jerks. I didn't know, right? I couldn't figure it out."

1998's original StarCraft wasn't intended to be a sport -- the game's community made it that way, and Blizzard has since run with the idea. Browder said he's seeing anecdotal evidence that StarCraft II is moving beyond its reputation as mainly a Korean eSports phenomenon, and sweeping Westward, with schools participating in collegiate StarCraft leagues, "strong membership" for Major League Gaming and lots of hits for StarCraft YouTube replays in the U.S.

And just this week, gaming and entertainment hub IGN said it would make a serious foray into professional competitive gaming, using StarCraft II as a platform to launch the initiative.

Browder admitted that taking out "fun" aspects was completely counterintuitive to his perception of game design. And certainly StarCraft II critics will point to his comments with a triumphant "A-HA!" now that there is hard evidence that the game was engineered to have "less fun" in its design.

But just as the NBA doesn't allow jet packs in basketball and the Olympic Committee frowns on nuclear-powered luges, sometimes self-imposed restrictions are in place because what might sound like fun -- or even actually be fun -- could ruin or over-complicate the design of a competitive game.

The StarCraft II team's goal wasn't necessarily to make the game less fun, but to find gameplay that was both fun and compatible with a sport -- the two elements had to coexist. At GDC this year, Browder likened the process to creating "Basketball 2."

"It took me a long time to understand why this sport value is so important," Browder continued. The development team kept itself in check, nixing units that overlapped with the roles of other units and dumping units that were deemed too complicated. Some of the units cut were fun to use, but just didn't fit with the game's objectives as an eSport.

"It makes it so challenging for designers on the project to come up with new and good ideas," said Browder. "We could sit here right now, and come up with 10 great ideas for an RTS. But I almost guarantee you that all of those would get shot down for a sport."

"There would be some fundamental reason why [our ideas] wouldn't work for an eSport. It's a much more challenging job," he explained. "It's not as easy as making 'cool' RTS units. ... That's not that challenging. Well, to be fair, it really is, but it's easier than trying to describe a crazy, crazy thing of a unit that's not only fun to play, but it's easy to understand, and allows for skill differentiation, and all of these variables [conducive to a balanced sport]."

Browder said that much of the pre-release balancing and related frustrations resulted in positive changes to the game's single-player mode as well. Blizzard is currently at work on expansions for StarCraft II, which will in return inevitably bring new updates and additions to the current game's multiplayer.

In the end, Browder believes the team created a game that has fundamental similarities to traditional sports: "The reality is that the game is trying to be easy to learn, impossible to master."


----------



## Vuashke

the op does have something of interest, but so does the rest of the thread

slacking off at work :C


----------



## thiru

What's Dustin Browder's ID? I know David Kim played under Dayvie or something and he was at the top of the ladder for quite a few months, but I didn't know Browder played at that level too.

Maybe they were playing on the same account? David Kim said that he _had_ to play random to not be biased, and I'm assuming Dustin Browder would be in the same case. Yet there was only 1 random player anywhere near the top of the ladder and that was Dayvie... no other random player that was nearly as good at the time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What's Dustin Browder's ID? I know David Kim played under Dayvie or something and he was at the top of the ladder for quite a few months, but I didn't know Browder played at that level too.

Maybe they were playing on the same account? David Kim said that he _had_ to play random to not be biased, and I'm assuming Dustin Browder would be in the same case. Yet there was only 1 random player anywhere near the top of the ladder and that was Dayvie... no other random player that was nearly as good at the time.


Good question, yes, Dayvie is David Kim's account but I'm also curious as to Dustin's account, maybe Dusty?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What's Dustin Browder's ID? I know David Kim played under Dayvie or something and he was at the top of the ladder for quite a few months, but I didn't know Browder played at that level too.

Maybe they were playing on the same account? David Kim said that he _had_ to play random to not be biased, and I'm assuming Dustin Browder would be in the same case. Yet there was only 1 random player anywhere near the top of the ladder and that was Dayvie... *no other random player that was nearly as good at the time.*


TLO was the highest ranked random before he changed to Terran recently IIRC


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What's Dustin Browder's ID? I know David Kim played under Dayvie or something and he was at the top of the ladder for quite a few months, but I didn't know Browder played at that level too.

Maybe they were playing on the same account? David Kim said that he _had_ to play random to not be biased, and I'm assuming Dustin Browder would be in the same case. Yet there was only 1 random player anywhere near the top of the ladder and that was Dayvie... no other random player that was nearly as good at the time.


David Kim was Dayvie? That guy was really, really good. Perhaps one of the best random players worldwide. He was probably top 0.1% or less, not to be confused with Browder's top 7%.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


David Kim was Dayvie? That guy was really, really good. Perhaps one of the best random players worldwide. He was probably top 0.1% or less, not to be confused with Browder's top 7%.


Yes, he is. He's currently around 50 or so rank in GM


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


David Kim was Dayvie? That guy was really, really good. Perhaps one of the best random players worldwide. He was probably top 0.1% or less, not to be confused with Browder's top 7%.


Oh I missed that. Yeah top 7% isn't Dayvie's level at all...


----------



## QuadDamage

I beat a master level player the other day, 1st time. It felt good. Zerg vs Terran he beat off my few pushes but gto to him with a mix of hydra, lings and roaches, I need to work on my amp and more hotkeys, I only really hotkey my hatches.

Did a 2 base opener 13 hatch 15 pool he did push in with 1 heallion and a m and m combo when I had my third he let me get into macro mode and I was able to overrun. I'll upload the replay if anyone cares. I'm a low level plat player


----------



## BigFan

Amazing paper models: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=217019


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just wondering, does marineking still go mass marines (with medivacs) no matter what the opponent builds? how does he deal with Colossi? does he ever throw in a few vikings?

stimmed marines are so fun...










anybody?

I personally can't seem to handle colossi/gate ball combo without throwing in some marauders and vikings...


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


anybody?

I personally can't seem to handle colossi/gate ball combo without throwing in some marauders and vikings...


The way he does it has such insane pressure constantly that the protoss never even has the chance to get more than one colossus- they can't afford to ball up with 3 colossi if they're being constantly pummelled and needing to defend with gateway units.

Watch the Day9 about it, it explains that if you constantly stream marines to the front, you should never have to worry about a ton of colossus, and should be more concerned about HTs. But considering that HTs take forever and no longer come with storm on demand, you shouldn't have any problems.

The key with the strategy is starting your attack early and never letting up pressure. As soon as he has 2-3 colossus with range it's GG. But if he only has 1 at a time, your marines can snipe it without taking too much damage.

And make marines from bare barracks at first, don't bother with reactors- they take forever in the early game and cost gas which you should barely be mining. It's also easier to balance economy and barracks number with single marine production.

Just pretend you're doing a 7rax all in, but stop at 5 rax, keep up the pressure to keep him on 2base without many colossus, and then expand and add on another 7-9 barracks. Get upgrades, shield and armor first (you have no medivacs, stim is dangerous and should be used for sniping colossi) and throw down a ghost academy. Continue to stream marines to the front, add in ghosts for EMP if you see HTs.


----------



## DoomDash

I played a game yesterday that made me remember how much I don't miss amulet. The 2nd game where my score was higher than the opponent in a 25 minute game and I lost.


----------



## Lazorbeam

I've been playing around with hallucination and I have to say it's probably one of the most underused spells in the game. I was hoping to get some input from others to theorycraft a timed rush that implements hallucination.

*VS Terran*

Basically, I've crafted myself a timed VR push that is extremely powerful against terran. In fact, I've only lost 3-4 times using it (in 20-25 times doing it) and looking back I probably could have won those games after improving the timed push.

The strategy involves making early 2 gas and double gating, quickly blocking your ramp with 3 sentries to deny any kind of early attack from terran (this is where I reference back to FF being broken). Generally terrans will see all your early sentries and assume all of your gas is going toward them. The better terrans may suspect that something's up, and scan around your base for hidden buildings. This is why it's important to hide your stargate in a spot that's hard to find. Generally, if they suspect anything at all it will be DTs.

Essentially, mass zealots and chrono boost 2 VRs and push out. If the terran fast expands (most do) you'll probably win. The strat seems weak against terran timed pushes, though. Banshee rushes do not counter this strategy as these games end up in base trades and VR > banshee.

The problem arises when terrans mass up a force, THEN expand. I'm thinking hallucination could work wonders to bait part of the defending army to the mineral line by hallucinating a prism and sending it over the main's scvs. Once the mm moves to defend the mineral line, send in your army, FF the ramp and obliterate whatever was left behind to defend.

I was also thinking that IF the terran has no turret(s), hallucinated archons could be used to tank some damage. If there ARE turrets, hallucinate more VRs to make the real ones harder to find/shoot down.

*VS Zerg*

We all know that 4-gate kinda sucks against zerg (I'm talking early 4G pressure). But I think that once you add the smart use of hallucinations this could change. Same deal as above, send in a hallucinated prism and FF the ramp once the zerg moves from his expansion. I could foresee some issues where when moving out especially against early large sling/roach armies.

I really haven't tested hallucination besides a phoenix to scout/feign pressure though.

Thoughts?

*Edit: VS Protoss*

Hoping this isn't a "breakthrough" idea but I've never seen it in high level play. Protoss players always wait for an observer/prism to get high ground vision and warp in units there. Why not use a hallucinated flying unit? This would be much faster than waiting for t2 tech.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I've been playing around with hallucination and I have to say it's probably one of the most underused spells in the game. I was hoping to get some input from others to theorycraft a timed rush that implements hallucination.

*VS Terran*

Basically, I've crafted myself a timed VR push that is extremely powerful against terran. In fact, I've only lost 3-4 times using it (in 20-25 times doing it) and looking back I probably could have won those games after improving the timed push.

The strategy involves making early 2 gas and double gating, quickly blocking your ramp with 3 sentries to deny any kind of early attack from terran (this is where I reference back to FF being broken). Generally terrans will see all your early sentries and assume all of your gas is going toward them. The better terrans may suspect that something's up, and scan around your base for hidden buildings. This is why it's important to hide your stargate in a spot that's hard to find. Generally, if they suspect anything at all it will be DTs.

Essentially, mass zealots and chrono boost 2 VRs and push out. If the terran fast expands (most do) you'll probably win. The strat seems weak against terran timed pushes, though. Banshee rushes do not counter this strategy as these games end up in base trades and VR > banshee.

The problem arises when terrans mass up a force, THEN expand. I'm thinking hallucination could work wonders to bait part of the defending army to the mineral line by hallucinating a prism and sending it over the main's scvs. Once the mm moves to defend the mineral line, send in your army, FF the ramp and obliterate whatever was left behind to defend.

I was also thinking that IF the terran has no turret(s), hallucinated archons could be used to tank some damage. If there ARE turrets, hallucinate more VRs to make the real ones harder to find/shoot down.

*VS Zerg*

We all know that 4-gate kinda sucks against zerg (I'm talking early 4G pressure). But I think that once you add the smart use of hallucinations this could change. Same deal as above, send in a hallucinated prism and FF the ramp once the zerg moves from his expansion. I could foresee some issues where when moving out especially against early large sling/roach armies.

I really haven't tested hallucination besides a phoenix to scout/feign pressure though.

Thoughts?

*Edit: VS Protoss*

Hoping this isn't a "breakthrough" idea but I've never seen it in high level play. Protoss players always wait for an observer/prism to get high ground vision and warp in units there. Why not use a hallucinated flying unit? This would be much faster than waiting for t2 tech.


You can get out hallucination even faster next patch too.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You can get out hallucination even faster next patch too.


warp gate tech is going from 140sec to 180 sec tho








zealot/stalker/sentry time is decreasing by like 5 seconds each as well.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


warp gate tech is going from 140sec to 180 sec tho








zealot/stalker/sentry time is decreasing by like 5 seconds each as well.


Its still PTR, usually there are some changes between PTR and the actual patch.


----------



## DoomDash

So I'm going to make an effort play Z more in casuals for now, I played my first one vs a 650 master Terran so far. I won of course. It's nice being on the easy side for once. It feels so bad knowing how much work he is putting into it and just to slowly pick him apart with muta and 1a sling bane for the win... feels dirty.. but good none the less.


----------



## Sainesk

carriers, are they OP in 4v4?

I just played a game where I had 2 zealots, 2 rays and all my other units carriers and like half of them had over 40 kills each...

I feel they can abuse most maps to their advantage so much...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13298088*
> carriers, are they OP in 4v4?
> 
> I just played a game where I had 2 zealots, 2 rays and all my other units carriers and like half of them had over 40 kills each...
> 
> I feel they can abuse most maps to their advantage so much...


every single 3v3/4v4 I have played is always "lets rush them"
And never a macro game.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13298255*
> every single 3v3/4v4 I have played is always "lets rush them"
> And never a macro game.


true a lot of them are, but I 'm starting to hope I get rushed







because i'm starting to get the hang of holding them off pretty well, especially as Z.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

On ladder map taldarim altar le, in 1v1's is there a default spawn? For example if you spawn bottom left (south west), does the opponent spawn two location (top right, bottom left) instead of three?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


every single 3v3/4v4 I have played is always "lets rush them"
And never a macro game.


Because if everyone executes a good 6rax/banelingbust/4gate and push all together at 6:30, you win. Almost always. And if you don't win, you then have complete map control and can expand everywhere while your opponents are forced to sit on 1-base.

I can't think of a single 4v4 random I've played where if *everyone* pushes at the same place at 6-7 minutes we don't win. If you are the aggressor with a huge force, you'll often win because they don't have all their forces in the same place and as they trickle in to reinforce the place you hit, you win.

First team to ball up and attack a single place will undoubtedly be the victors.

Speaking of which, adding in shields in a 6rax is devastating, and pretty easy to incorporate, should only have 4-5 fewer marines at the 7 minute mark and delay the last rax by 30 seconds or so. If you play terran and like to do random 3v3s and 4v4s, I would definitely try it.


----------



## Twistacles

God 4v4 takes forever to get into masters. I'm 15-1 atm -_-


----------



## DoomDash

I actually manage to win a TvZ on alter. I think I played it pretty well besides getting greedy with my first drop, and 19:xx when I lose my entire army to banes ( was looking at my base for one second, gah )


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












that comic feels so true...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13300694*
> Because if everyone executes a good 6rax/banelingbust/4gate and push all together at 6:30, you win. Almost always. And if you don't win, you then have complete map control and can expand everywhere while your opponents are forced to sit on 1-base.
> 
> I can't think of a single 4v4 random I've played where if *everyone* pushes at the same place at 6-7 minutes we don't win. If you are the aggressor with a huge force, you'll often win because they don't have all their forces in the same place and as they trickle in to reinforce the place you hit, you win.
> 
> First team to ball up and attack a single place will undoubtedly be the victors.
> 
> Speaking of which, adding in shields in a 6rax is devastating, and pretty easy to incorporate, should only have 4-5 fewer marines at the 7 minute mark and delay the last rax by 30 seconds or so. If you play terran and like to do random 3v3s and 4v4s, I would definitely try it.


Hmm I will give that a go if I get terran, I have been trying some 7 rax and wow its really amazing when done right XD
its not so much the initial force but just the fact that you get no gas and 7 rax means you can re-enforce your army so fast


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13307042*
> Hmm I will give that a go if I get terran, I have been trying some 7 rax and wow its really amazing when done right XD
> its not so much the initial force but just the fact that you get no gas and 7 rax means you can re-enforce your army so fast


I don't like 7 rax because you have no options once it's going. Either make marines until you win or make marines until you die. 6rax gives you a surplus of minerals over time to add on refineries and an expo and move into ghost or drop play.

BTW, ghost/marine is wonderful in 4v4 if you are going to tech rather than rush. EMP/rines destroys a stalker ball, and snipes decimate a roach ball. It needs WAY too much gas though, so the 200/100 change will be nice, but it should be 150/100- a ghost is on par with a banshee in terms of damage potential, why do they have to cost more?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13307748*
> I don't like 7 rax because you have no options once it's going. Either make marines until you win or make marines until you die. 6rax gives you a surplus of minerals over time to add on refineries and an expo and move into ghost or drop play.
> 
> BTW, ghost/marine is wonderful in 4v4 if you are going to tech rather than rush. EMP/rines destroys a stalker ball, and snipes decimate a roach ball. It needs WAY too much gas though, so the 200/100 change will be nice, but it should be 150/100- a ghost is on par with a banshee in terms of damage potential, why do they have to cost more?


99% of the time I talk with my teamies, and if we are rushing I always tend to go 7 rax or 3 or 4 rax with marauders. Or 4 gate/3 gate robo or roach rush XD
I really want to actually tech up for once in a 4v4/3v3.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13290922*
> I think we're talking about 2 different things, but I would love to see 50 replays where HTs are merged when they can be saved (thinking of getting a GSL pass).


Different things? I'm talking about when a Protoss ball meets a Terran ball. Ghosts immediately EMP a small group of HT. The HT immediately warp into Archons, so they're not standing around idle in the battle.

Let me know when you buy the pass (it's dirt cheap) and I'll point out a couple games for you. I'll even limit it to top 16-Code S games so you can be sure they're really-super-super-high level.


----------



## Tralala

why is no one ever in ocn channel...

add me if you do team games
was diamond when I played more


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tralala;13308066*
> why is no one ever in ocn channel...
> 
> add me if you do team games
> was diamond when I played more


I'm always there. It's overclock.net on ocn or something.

I managed to drop 200 points in the last 4 days, WITH bonus pool. How is this possible ?


----------



## Alex132

wait you just join "overclock.net"?
There is like 1 guy in the channel D:

Just did a 6 colossi drop on a terran, was lolzy


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


wait you just join "overclock.net"?
There is like 1 guy in the channel D:


That would be me.









Who's Hummingbird? BigFan's smurf account?


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


wait you just join "overclock.net"?
There is like 1 guy in the channel D:

Just did a 6 colossi drop on a terran, was lolzy


colossi are op, there's nothing special about that.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13310576*
> colossi are op, there's nothing special about that.


Colossi are definitely not OP, if that had been Thors I coulda just dropped and not even bothered to attack his front with stalkers/sentries. Jus' saying


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


Colossi are definitely not OP, if that had been Thors I coulda just dropped and not even bothered to attack his front with stalkers/sentries. Jus' saying



colossi > thors. don't know what you're thinking


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


colossi > thors. don't know what you're thinking


yes but Colossi can't take on air and are attacked by AA, also they suck vs mech unless its like 4 thor vs 4 colossi


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


yes but Colossi can't take on air and are attacked by AA, also they suck vs mech unless its like 4 thor vs 4 colossi


i'd take 4 colossi over 4 thors anyday. what league are you in?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


i'd take 4 colossi over 4 thors anyday. what league are you in?


diamond in the EU


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


diamond in the EU


diamond in na....

anyways, sentry colossus is pretty imba.terran has to constantly harass to win. if they just sit back and macro they're dead. while we harass perfectly we have to macro at the same time, a small slip and its gg. infestor > terran, colossi + forcefields > terran. especially with the ghost energy nerf, it's starting to become extremely difficult to win. IMMVP claims that terran is the weakest race.

btw, don't want to start a qq war just thinking what you guys think


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


diamond in na....

anyways, sentry colossus is pretty imba.terran has to constantly harass to win. if they just sit back and macro they're dead. while we harass perfectly we have to macro at the same time, a small slip and its gg. infestor > terran, colossi + forcefields > terran. especially with the ghost energy nerf, it's starting to become extremely difficult to win. IMMVP claims that terran is the weakest race.

btw, don't want to start a qq war just thinking what you guys think










EU > NA









IMO no race is too OP, sure there are small OP things but countering it is all that matters. You definitely can't say Terran is underpowered lol. Zerg is the hardest IMO, Protoss does have it easy in a macro game, terran does have it easy in a mid-game and Zerg just dont have it easy (unless you 6 pool or something lame)








easiest counter to Colossi/Sentry is viking/thor/marauder or a siege line. thors are massive so they crush forcefeilds btw


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


EU > NA










No, trust me







. At top 100 level yes though. Much more TOP players in EU, but the Master players are about the same. I play people from EU all the time, and I watch my EU friends stream its the same.

I think T is fine in TvP , though with the RECENT builds that Protoss has its slightly P favored, but only because Terran hasn't exactly figured out how to deal with it yet. Just something that could change in a little time.

TvZ is probably T favored at the highest level, and Z favored any level below damn near perfect. That's just my take on it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm always there. It's overclock.net on ocn or something.

I managed to drop 200 points in the last 4 days, WITH bonus pool. How is this possible ?


wow, that's big!







You must've lost a lot more than you won if that's the case









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Who's Hummingbird? BigFan's smurf account?


lol, darn, how did you know? 
/joke
Nope, not me, one of the members on OCN









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, trust me







. At top 100 level yes though. Much more TOP players in EU, but the Master players are about the same. I play people from EU all the time, and I watch my EU friends stream its the same.

I think T is fine in TvP , though with the RECENT builds that Protoss has its slightly P favored, but only because Terran hasn't exactly figured out how to deal with it yet. Just something that could change in a little time.

TvZ is probably T favored at the highest level, and Z favored any level below damn near perfect. That's just my take on it.


I agree, I think T is fine in TvsP. As for TvsZ, no comment








As for the EU and NA thing, I disagree. I think in general EU > NA but that's basing it on what I've read


----------



## DoomDash

Disagree ? I'm talking from experience vs you reading what EU players post







. At top 100 its true though.

and I know you agree with me on TvZ as well, even if you don't play at the same level.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No, trust me







. At top 100 level yes though. Much more TOP players in EU, but the Master players are about the same. I play people from EU all the time, and I watch my EU friends stream its the same.

I think T is fine in TvP , though with the RECENT builds that Protoss has its slightly P favored, but only because Terran hasn't exactly figured out how to deal with it yet. Just something that could change in a little time.

TvZ is probably T favored at the highest level, and Z favored any level below damn near perfect. That's just my take on it.


NA has WAY more noobs lol, middleground (silver - gold/plat maybe) EU >>>>>>>> NA
Top level its about the same.

But Z gets stomped unless done 100% right. Especially against P


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


NA has WAY more noobs lol, middleground (silver - gold/plat maybe) EU >>>>>>>> NA
Top level its about the same.

*But Z gets stomped unless done 100% right. Especially against P*


THANK YoU!


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know about the lower leagues, and I agree ZvP is hard.

ZvP and TvZ are in the same category of hard to me.


----------



## Alex132

I love PvZ though, it P has very nice counters to Z
Immortals shredding through roaches pleases me so much







:


----------



## Allenssmart

NASL OR IPL I CANT CHOOSE!!! hELP


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


NASL OR IPL I CANT CHOOSE!!! hELP


I like IPL better in general, but it also depends on the players playing at the time i guess.


----------



## DoomDash

Still too much SCII


----------



## Hank Scorpio

I've played/watched a terrifying amount of SC2 the past two weeks - I think I have a problem as well. Got my 50th league win tonight tho, figuring out the basics/mechanics but steadily improving/climbing silver/gold. I have a LONG way to go :>

Most of my games I win/lose in the early/midgame feels like 80%+, this is common for the low leagues? Need to work on the end-game as I just tend to noob it up and either hold on with a fully upped army or do something stupid like mis-micro said fully upped army to its doom. Let alone all the heinous macro mistakes made by that point...


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Still too much SCII











NASL is crap imo. The quality isn't there, and the $25 fee is absolutely absurd for what they are using to stream/ call VODs...lmao.

I watch whichever has the better players atm, but I applaud IGN for having HD quality streams (for free) and interviews compared to the half assed, poorly managed NASL.


----------



## DoomDash

I like the NASL too. I like both. IGN is better quality, and that will make NASL better in the long run.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I like the NASL too. I like both. IGN is better quality, and that will make NASL better in the long run.


I kinda hope your right, but at the same time I kinda hope that NASL lowers it's price to the GSL standards of $10. I mean if anyone has tested the waters of what people are willing to pay for the highest quality of SC it's GomTv. I refuse to pay $25 for something that I can torrent for free if I even cared.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I have the same thinking as well, hence I'm not paying attention to the NASL except for four games I've watched. I assume they'll get better in the future.


----------



## DoomDash

I am a huge e-sports fan, and although I don't agree with rewarding bad business, they are making an effort to improve. I would support them for that alone, but that's just me. *Note, I'm too poor to do so though







.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


I kinda hope your right, but at the same time I kinda hope that NASL lowers it's price to the GSL standards of $10. I mean if anyone has tested the waters of what people are willing to pay for the highest quality of SC it's GomTv. I refuse to pay $25 for something that I can torrent for free if I even cared.


If you think about it from a money perspective though, NASL is cheaper than GOM.

GOM = 10/month for the GSL and 5/Month for the GSTL & Special events

NASL = 25 over the course of 3 months.

GOM = 10+5 times 3 months = 45$

So GOM @ 3 months is 45$ and NASL @ 3months is 25$

But GOM > NASL in every aspect.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


But GOM > NASL in every aspect.


Not the time of the live streams heh







.


----------



## Sainesk

how much does a ticket to Seoul roughly cost from US/Canada...?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13315913*
> how much does a ticket to Seoul roughly cost from US/Canada...?


*More than you can afford pal.*


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13315913*
> how much does a ticket to Seoul roughly cost from US/Canada...?


*
Smoke'm*


----------



## yks

wooooooooooooooo Masters.... in 3v3. LAWL.


----------



## Tralala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13317558*
> wooooooooooooooo Masters.... in 3v3. LAWL.


I wants on your team!
add me *******!


----------



## poroboszcz

It seems that midday is the worst time to play sc2. I rarely play at this time, but today I have been insulted and immediately ignored by almost every single player, and literally every zerg i played, regardless if they won or lost... I guess it's best to play late at night when most of the kids sleep.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Not to bash anyone, but if you're not at the top of the game, you're probably not in a position to call a unit/race imbalanced based on your personal experience. If you have trouble with a certain race or unit, it's probably due to a hole in your own game.

I could easily call zerg imbalanced because I have trouble against this race as protoss, but I know this to be a hole in my own game rather than a game imbalance.

For the same reason blizzard should form a comity of pro players to balance the game. The end.


----------



## Alex132

Whats worse than a sore loser is a gloating winner IMO
I dont care if someone is like "ohhh T is so OP bro you noob"
But I hate losing to someone thats like "hahah f*&^ing noob why are you even diamond you suck so much!" and ends up our scores were like 1 point apart.
I think that being humble/kind is definitely part of being a good player

and @lazorbeam, I'm totally with you there, but IMO Z is a lot harder to play right against P


----------



## durch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13318979*
> blizzard should form a comity of pro players


Were you trying to say "committee"?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13316421*
> *More than you can afford pal.*


LOL!







Love that movie


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13312188*
> NA has WAY more noobs lol, middleground (silver - gold/plat maybe) EU >>>>>>>> NA
> Top level its about the same.
> 
> But Z gets stomped unless done 100% right. Especially against P


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13312211*
> THANK YoU!


Sorry but I disagree. Maybe it's just me or the P players I go up against are just noobs







but I don't have a hard time with P. Infact, I think my ZvsP rate has went up and is somewhat on par with ZvsT. I've been in the late games against P and have went up against carriers, colossi, hts, motherships, etc.... I've even been in games where I was outmacroed(realized after watching replay(opponent took more bases, more workers, etc....)) and still won. My point is, the only time I've ever lost against P is in the early game when I decided to just make 2 crawlers and drone up without scouting and then can't make enough units to hold the attack








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13312155*
> *Disagree ? I'm talking from experience vs you reading what EU players post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . At top 100 its true though.*
> 
> and I know you agree with me on TvZ as well, even if you don't play at the same level.


lol, true dat @ bolded. I dunno about TvsZ, I like the match up. It feels great and I love the micro component a lot








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13312262*
> I don't know about the lower leagues, and I agree ZvP is hard.
> 
> ZvP and TvZ are in the same category of hard to me.


How are they in the same category if you've never laddered ZvsP?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13319264*
> Sorry but I disagree. Maybe it's just me or the P players I go up against are just noobs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I don't have a hard time with P. Infact, I think my ZvsP rate has went up and is somewhat on par with ZvsT. I've been in the late games against P and have went up against carriers, colossi, hts, motherships, etc.... I've even been in games where I was outmacroed(realized after watching replay(opponent took more bases, more workers, etc....)) and still won. My point is, the only time I've ever lost against P is in the early game when I decided to just make 2 crawlers and drone up without scouting and then can't make enough units to hold the attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, true dat @ bolded. I dunno about TvsZ, I like the match up. It feels great and I love the micro component a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they in the same category if you've never laddered ZvsP?


Its different at silver (your level) I find lower tier's seem to be more unsure of when to push so it always kinda ends up in a macro game


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


Its different at silver (your level) I find lower tier's seem to be more unsure of when to push so it always kinda ends up in a macro game










I disagree with your statement for one reason. I think figuring out a timing window to attack/push out isn't as hard as you make it sound. Maybe I'm playing as T and want to push out. I scan, try to see his composition and if he has colossi, etc.... If I find that he's just wrapping in the structure, then I might decide to push out then before he gets colossi, put a dent in his army or maybe even win the game outright. If I'm P, I might push out once I get the +1 upgrade with a decent size army to 2 shot lings, etc.... or I might wait to get colossi if my opponet is going mass slings/roaches+hydras. In the end, I believe it all comes down to scouting, your unit composition and having an understanding on the different units/counters in the game.

Given, it's not easy either, just need the experience(more games) to decide when to push out. As Zerg, usually I wait for the first push since it almost always comes. As T/P, I'll try drops(T) or some early harass(P) to control the game flow. My point is, I find that in most of my games I always get attacked/will attack around the 8-10min mark. Maybe its different in EU then, but, i dunno


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *durch;13319031*
> Were you trying to say "committee"?


Yes, but I can _easily_ blame that on mobile positing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Yes, but I can _easily_ blame that on mobile *positing*.


You mean posting?


----------



## Hank Scorpio

Wins 51/52 took me from #1 silver to #6 gold, woot









That said, I can't disagree with thealex that lower leagues are somewhat predictable, but I disagree that it always turns into macro games...

ZvX has played out like: enough gas for speed then back to minerals for 2nd queen/xpo. Push slings before 5:00 mark, based off how that works/what I see either finish off with slings, or transition back to gas for roach push around 9:00. If that fails, I've done enough damage and prevented his xpo while building my own economy and it transitions very well to mid-game. Most games end in the mid-game, and only a handful have made it to big macro/hive tech... my $0.02 from the bronze/silver leagues


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quick question, what's a good Terran counter to mass mutas, assuming Z knows the magic box so Thors don't work?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Quick question, what's a good Terran counter to mass mutas, assuming Z knows the magic box so Thors don't work?


Vikings do real nice, but yeah Thors are optimal unless the Z magic boxs


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


You mean posting?











How embargoing, thanks for correcting me!


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


Vikings do real nice, but yeah Thors are optimal unless the Z magic boxs


vikings are completely useless against mutas. 1v1, vikings win, but as numbers increase the effectiveness of vikings DECREASE EXPONENTIALLY due to glaive wurms. As a mid-high diamond terran player, vikings are NEVER used to counter mutas. Thors are ok if scvs are repairing, but the real main counter are just stimmed marines. Marines rip through mutas if they ever catch up. The last excellent counter are battlecruisers which are becoming increasingly more viable due to the recent battlecruiser speed buff of 30%.

Tl;dr
vikings never work. marines.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Quick question, what's a good Terran counter to mass mutas, assuming Z knows the magic box so Thors don't work?


Obviously having a couple turrets to buy enough time to get there to defend is nice too.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Thanks, I'm actually a Z player that likes Mutas, so I just wanted to know what I should expect vs. a Terran that knows his stuff. Missile turrets naturally are a pain, but not too big of one once I get >8 mutas. Marines aren't a problem, because I can usually withdraw and harass and whittle them down without too many casualties. I haven't had much trouble with Thors, usually my harass does too much damage to their economy for them to be able to afford more than a few before I have a whole pack of mutas.

It sounds like if micromanaged properly, and withdrawn when things get dicey, the only hard counter Terran has against mass mutas is either an early rush or Battlecruisers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Quick question, what's a good Terran counter to mass mutas, assuming Z knows the magic box so Thors don't work?


I think marines are the best counter with medivacs with a thor or two. Having turrets around the cc(2-3) is a good idea just to delay the muta's attack so that you can get some units there to defend your base.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


How *embargoing*, thanks for correcting me!


I see what you did there









Cool bio: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=217735


----------



## Alex132

I donno why but I feel so bad every time I don't macro properly XD
Hate not having enough vespane/too much minerals or vice-versa


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Thanks, I'm actually a Z player that likes Mutas, so I just wanted to know what I should expect vs. a Terran that knows his stuff. Missile turrets naturally are a pain, but not too big of one once I get >8 mutas. Marines aren't a problem, because I can usually withdraw and harass and whittle them down without too many casualties. I haven't had much trouble with Thors, usually my harass does too much damage to their economy for them to be able to afford more than a few before I have a whole pack of mutas.

It sounds like if micromanaged properly, and withdrawn when things get dicey, the only hard counter Terran has against mass mutas is either an early rush or Battlecruisers.


Yes I get to help phaedrus for once instead of the other way around!

Well, naturally the reason you go mutas against T is to pick off sieged tanks, however if there are no marines (for some reason), and not enough thors, a large amount of upgraded mutas can chew threw them.

BUT!

Even a small group of marines, with stim can do serious damage to your muta ball. You have to see it in terms of cost-efficiency. Killing 3 marines vs losing 3 mutas, even 2 mutas= not worth it at all.

P.S. Cougar CMX 700 got here today.. looks pretty. Great looking PSU, seems solid enough as well. Not bad for $74cad


----------



## Mit Namso

SC2 is a good game so far, but why is it so popular? seeing as how its only CnC+different universe basically


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


SC2 is a good game so far, but why is it so popular? seeing as how its only CnC+different universe basically


Not quite. Old CnC was great, but it's a competitive element of sc that made it so popular. The game is easy to play, but impossible to master. There are all the small details that can give you an edge in competitive play.


----------



## KaiZ51

Hey guys, I'm starting to get back to SC2, and I'm just as horrible as I was, so I was hoping you guys could check out the replay of the match I made just a few minutes ago, and see what I can improve. Here it is.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Quick question, what's a good Terran counter to mass mutas, assuming Z knows the magic box so Thors don't work?


Marines and a thor or two will counter any muta play what so ever. Even though mutas can magic box thors, thors act as a tank soaking the damage from the mutas while your marines deal the dps to the mutas. 1 thor and and a handful of marines will stop any in base muta play coupled with turrets.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Thanks, I'm actually a Z player that likes Mutas, so I just wanted to know what I should expect vs. a Terran that knows his stuff. Missile turrets naturally are a pain, but not too big of one once I get >8 mutas. Marines aren't a problem, because I can usually withdraw and harass and whittle them down without too many casualties. I haven't had much trouble with Thors, usually my harass does too much damage to their economy for them to be able to afford more than a few before I have a whole pack of mutas.

It sounds like if micromanaged properly, and withdrawn when things get dicey, the only hard counter Terran has against mass mutas is either an early rush or Battlecruisers.


Repair is the terran hard counter to muta harass. I've played terrans who are lightning fast to react to any muta threat with SCV's and muta harass is not even close to being cost-effective against those guys. They have no trouble protecting mineral lines or anything else once they get a few thors out. Most Terrans who complain about muta harass are just not taking full advantage of what repair can do. They need to get better minimap awareness and faster reaction times with their SCV's. And they need a few vikings. One of my pet peeves about terran players is that they whine like little girls whenever they're forced to spend gas on something other than their favorite units. Vikings are nobody's favorite unit, but they are helpful sometimes.


----------



## Twistacles

Amazing TvT series Strelok vs Nada on the nasl. Wow.


----------



## Mit Namso

ice cream in a paper box is as useless as I am against the zergs so far on hardest

It reminds me of the 1st actually hard level of CnC:KW/TW with the rocket Aholes coming in mass swarms

A stealth driveway made of hash works better than me so far, because who would think a whack paved driveway is made of hash anyways???


----------



## BigFan

Just got BM'd on plateau in a TvsT: 

I thought my strat was fine, given my macro was pretty horrible halfway through once the battle(s) started







Thought you guys might enjoy this since I don't get many BMs XD


----------



## ntherblast

I need help. Should I always be producing workers to mine? I find that my army is always smaller compared to other players. I usually always make scv from start until i get 24 on minerals and 3 on each gas. Or should I stop making workers at a certain point and focus more on my army?


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13325920*
> I need help. Should I always be producing workers to mine? I find that my army is always smaller compared to other players. I usually always make scv from start until i get 24 on minerals and 3 on each gas. Or should I stop making workers at a certain point and focus more on my army?


Always produce workers, for the entire game. The reason for this is that you can instantly saturate your expansion when you make it by transferring workers, you can absorb harassment to your mineral line a lot more and you can saturate your third. The only time you cut at 24 is if you are doing a one-base allin.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13326456*
> Always produce workers, for the entire game. The reason for this is that you can instantly saturate your expansion when you make it by transferring workers, you can absorb harassment to your mineral line a lot more and you can saturate your third. The only time you cut at 24 is if you are doing a one-base allin.


I guess the next question is, what happens when your opponent does a blue flame hellion drop and your SCVs are all there(haven't expanded yet)? I'm sure he'll get a good amount due to how many there are


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13325920*
> I need help. Should I always be producing workers to mine? I find that my army is always smaller compared to other players. I usually always make scv from start until i get 24 on minerals and 3 on each gas. Or should I stop making workers at a certain point and focus more on my army?


I want to play "Master of Orion 2"

That game is addictive...it really is


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13326607*
> I want to play "Master of Orion 2"
> 
> That game is addictive...it really is


i don't get it... Is this suppose to be some kind of witty joke?


----------



## mudman091878

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13324446*
> SC2 is a good game so far, but why is it so popular? seeing as how its only CnC+different universe basically


2 main reasons.

1. Unique races. Not just slightly different, but almost totally unique. No other RTS game comes even close to offering 3 near 100% unique races. Each race has little in common past collecting resources. This is very underrated when it comes to SC2's popularity.

2. Balance. With these unique races comes a great challenge in keeping the game balanced. If the game was unbalanced you'd see one race and only one race played at the highest levels.

At least one of these two things are largely missing from virtually all other RTS games.

Also, outside of the standard competitive multiplayer aspect, you have the immensely popular custom maps made from the map editor. No other game has the custom map making community that starcraft has (other than WC3 of course).


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13326730*
> i don't get it... Is this suppose to be some kind of witty joke?


A fleet of Doom Star's with stellar converters are enroute to YOUR PLANET


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mudman091878;13326961*
> 2 main reasons.
> 
> 1. Unique races. Not just slightly different, but almost totally unique. No other RTS game comes even close to offering 3 near 100% unique races. Each race has little in common past collecting resources. This is very underrated when it comes to SC2's popularity.
> 
> 2. Balance. With these unique races comes a great challenge in keeping the game balanced. If the game was unbalanced you'd see one race and only one race played at the highest levels.
> 
> At least one of these two things are largely missing from virtually all other RTS games.
> 
> Also, outside of the standard competitive multiplayer aspect, you have the immensely popular custom maps made from the map editor. No other game has the custom map making community that starcraft has (other than WC3 of course).


Pretty true, balance isn't too bad for SCII atm and the game will only get better once the exps come out with more units


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13327419*
> and the game will only get better once the exps come out with more units


unless they add hats...

ghost with cowboy hat... *shudder*


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13324968*
> Marines and a thor or two will counter any muta play what so ever. Even though mutas can magic box thors, thors act as a tank soaking the damage from the mutas while your marines deal the dps to the mutas. 1 thor and and a handful of marines will stop any in base muta play coupled with turrets.


and magic boxing may be taken out in the next patch


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13327496*
> unless they add hats...
> 
> ghost with cowboy hat... *shudder*


They better not















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13327529*
> and magic boxing may be taken out in the next patch


How so?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Can anyone tell me why Starcraft 2 does NOT reconnect to the server after my service cuts out and resumes? When I lose internet, I lose connection to Blizzie servers and the game throws up that box that just has the surrender button.... however, when my connection comes back ,the game never resumes and the only thing I can do is leave the game.

Very frustrating when my (admittedly CPU, until this is resolved) opponent has only 1 building left and once I beat him I get another cheevo.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13327496*
> unless they add hats...
> 
> ghost with cowboy hat... *shudder*


In FO:NV I had to find a cowgirl ghoul, to be a prostitute


----------



## yellowtoblerone

We all did. She was hot.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;13327556*
> Can anyone tell me why Starcraft 2 does NOT reconnect to the server after my service cuts out and resumes? When I lose internet, I lose connection to Blizzie servers and the game throws up that box that just has the surrender button.... however, when my connection comes back ,the game never resumes and the only thing I can do is leave the game.
> 
> Very frustrating when my (admittedly CPU, until this is resolved) opponent has only 1 building left and once I beat him I get another cheevo.


Actually, mine used to do that and then I have to click surrender, but, recently, if it disconnects from battle.net, then it'll connect back and the surrender screen will be gone so that I can continue to play again


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13325424*
> Repair is the terran hard counter to muta harass. I've played terrans who are lightning fast to react to any muta threat with SCV's and muta harass is not even close to being cost-effective against those guys. They have no trouble protecting mineral lines or anything else once they get a few thors out. Most Terrans who complain about muta harass are just not taking full advantage of what repair can do. They need to get better minimap awareness and faster reaction times with their SCV's. And they need a few vikings. One of my pet peeves about terran players is that they whine like little girls whenever they're forced to spend gas on something other than their favorite units. Vikings are nobody's favorite unit, but they are helpful sometimes.


Low leaguers say the cutest things.


----------



## Vermillion

Wow, Anypro just self destructed hardcore.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vermillion;13327981*
> Wow, Anypro just self destructed hardcore.


Share with me, I was not watching whatever you refer to.


----------



## Vermillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdmiralThrawn;13328016*
> Share with me, I was not watching whatever you refer to.


He blocked his expansion with his initial pylon when going forge fast expand. He then pulled all his probes to kill the pylon to continue the FE build.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Haha owned.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13327954*
> Low leaguers say the cutest things.


You are a real piece of work, pal. I like to chat with master league opponents and they routinely express opinions that are exactly the opposite of yours, and they're generally a lot more polite than you. And they usually don't express their opinions as FACTS that only a moron would disagree with. In your world there are only two types of people: those who agree with you; and morons to be subjected to ridicule.


----------



## Twistacles

He's right about the repair/thor thing, but vikings are a terrible idea.


----------



## KaiZ51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaiZ51;13324839*
> Hey guys, I'm starting to get back to SC2, and I'm just as horrible as I was, so I was hoping you guys could check out the replay of the match I made just a few minutes ago, and see what I can improve. Here it is.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Just bumping this up in case anyone didn't see it...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13327954*
> Low leaguers say the cutest things.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13328368*
> You are a real piece of work, pal. I like to chat with master league opponents and they routinely express opinions that are exactly the opposite of yours, and they're generally a lot more polite than you. And they usually don't express their opinions as FACTS that only a moron would disagree with. In your world there are only two types of people: those who agree with you; and morons to be subjected to ridicule.


rofl @ these comments. But seriously guys, take it easy. Let's not turn this thread into a flame war


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13327417*
> A fleet of Doom Star's with stellar converters are enroute to YOUR PLANET


i don't see how this has anything to do with what i asked...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You are a real piece of work, pal. I like to chat with master league opponents and they routinely express opinions that are exactly the opposite of yours, and they're generally a lot more polite than you. And they usually don't express their opinions as FACTS that only a moron would disagree with. In your world there are only two types of people: those who agree with you; and morons to be subjected to ridicule.


Lol its all in good fun, I know my friend whose in GM continually ridicules every last thing I do, but hey I know hes not that serious and is just trying to help in the end


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


He's right about the repair/thor thing, but vikings are a terrible idea.


I put turrets in my mineral line or really close and go for repair at all time,s as well as repairing thors, but it's not nearly as good as he made it seem that's all.

And I don't care if I come off like an elitist ( to Lucas ), to say you have even close to the same experiences against good Zergs in ZvT is just not true. That's not even an opinion its just fact.

Cool idra interview / background story:

http://steelseries.com/gaming/teams/...1on1-with-idra


----------



## Perdition64

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


You are a real piece of work, pal. I like to chat with master league opponents and they routinely express opinions that are exactly the opposite of yours, and they're generally a lot more polite than you. And they usually don't express their opinions as FACTS that only a moron would disagree with. In your world there are only two types of people: those who agree with you; and morons to be subjected to ridicule.


Actually, having read your posts, the only thing I can extract from them is an overwhelming sense of zerg bias.

Also, I don't listen to master leaguers on balance, I listen to pro's - they play the game for a living, they practice more than most random master leaguers. They'd know a thing or two on balance.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Perdition64*


Actually, having read your posts, the only thing I can extract from them is an overwhelming sense of zerg bias.

Also, I don't listen to master leaguers on balance, I listen to pro's - they play the game for a living, they practice more than most random master leaguers. They'd know a thing or two on balance.


They all say that SC2 is very balanced and that if you are finding something unbalanced, then look at what you are doing wrong rather than blame it on the race. Its most likely your fault, so go out there and find the perfect reaction to it.


----------



## DoomDash

You guys are talking about Day9 when you talk about look at yourself. Thats very true but that doesn't mean there is also no imbalance. The point is you should not let it hold you back, and work on anything you can in the mean time.

To say pros think it's balanced is quite a stretch. People of all races seem to think their own is the weakest ( besides Protoss players recently hah ).


----------



## Perdition64

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You guys are talking about Day9 when you talk about look at yourself. Thats very true but that doesn't mean there is also no imbalance. The point is you should not let it hold you back, and work on anything you can in the mean time.

To say pros think it's balanced is quite a stretch. People of all races seem to think their own is the weakest ( besides Protoss players recently hah ).


Aye, the pro's don't think its balanced. The best you can do is piece together each faction's pro's and try to get some idea of the state.

Below that level, i, we, everyone, loses due to mistakes in play. Not to say the pros are perfect, but they mess up the least. Or at least mess up in a big way.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I put turrets in my mineral line or really close and go for repair at all time,s as well as repairing thors, but it's not nearly as good as he made it seem that's all. 
[/url]


This is true, but he left out certain assumptions that DO make it as good as he's saying. (Not sure if that makes sense.)

The strength of turret repair/thor repair is not in shutting down Muta harass cold- it's buying time for your marines to get there. Generally, if you see mutas go to your mineral line, you can do a few things:

1. Repair Turrets/Thor
which buys time for
2.6-7 stimmed marines (wherever they are) to run there which buys time for
3.The bulk of your marine army to walk their slow ass there.

Really big Muta flocks are ridiculous to deal with, though.


----------



## Mwarren

The only thing that I think is unbalanced from a terrans perspective are infestors in TvZ. Ghosts are useless against them and they don't cut zerg units hp in half like they do in TvP. IMO they need to make it so that they drain all of the energy again because as of right now, if the zerg goes infestors (and most good zergs will) you have to be extremely careful with your marines and hope that your tanks can take them out without getting neutral parasite casted on them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I put turrets in my mineral line or really close and go for repair at all time,s as well as repairing thors, but it's not nearly as good as he made it seem that's all.

And I don't care if I come off like an elitist ( to Lucas ), to say you have even close to the same experiences against good Zergs in ZvT is just not true. That's not even an opinion its just fact.

Cool idra interview / background story:

http://steelseries.com/gaming/teams/...1on1-with-idra


Repost(look about 3-5 pages back I believe)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


They all say that SC2 is very balanced and that if you are finding something unbalanced, then look at what you are doing wrong rather than blame it on the race. Its most likely your fault, so go out there and find the perfect reaction to it.


Actually, the pros don't say its balanced. There's been a lot of complaining from Z pros about ZvsP and how hard, or should I say impossible to win P in certain maps such as XC.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


The only thing that I think is unbalanced from a terrans perspective are infestors in TvZ. Ghosts are useless against them and they don't cut zerg units hp in half like they do in TvP. IMO they need to make it *so that they drain all of the energy again* because as of right now, if the zerg goes infestors (and most good zergs will) you have to be extremely careful with your marines and hope that your tanks can take them out without getting neutral parasite casted on them.


Drain energy, you mean EMP?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, but EMP doesn't drain 100% energy anymore is what he is saying, and he thinks it should. With these new infestors I agree. Raise the cost of it to 100 I don't care. New FG is broken ( vs T ), even Zergs will tell you this.


----------



## Mwarren

I actually just lost a TvZ because the zerg went infestors and he fungaled all of my marines as I was pushing out and it was gg, cause without shields or a medivac infestors can kill with one fungal. It's silly because ghosts are actually a useful spellcaster tvp cause they can drain shields and get rid of HT's but in TvZ they're useless. They should be able to remove all energy and possibly do damage with the emps.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13335673*
> I actually just lost a TvZ because the zerg went infestors and he fungaled all of my marines as I was pushing out and it was gg, cause without shields or a medivac infestors can kill with one fungal. It's silly because ghosts are actually a useful spellcaster tvp cause they can drain shields and get rid of HT's but in TvZ they're useless. They should be able to remove all energy and possibly do damage with the emps.


It's just funny that the infestors literally countered every Terran unit in the game pretty well. Between FG, IT, and NP, they are probably the most useful unit in the game. Marine being close second.


----------



## yks

Hell yeah, Infestors are crazy as **** right now, even against Protoss.


----------



## DoomDash

I dedicate this win to yks + jediwin. I am trying to play Terran really gay to win this match up. We can't all right click our way to victory I guess.


----------



## BigFan

I'm actually inclined to agree. I don't use infestors and haven't yet







but they do sound OP from the recent buff of 30% bonus to armored and the recent dps increase. I think they should make infestors kinda like defilers where FG actually slows movement a bit(stim can still be used to get back to normal if possible) but it causes the damage, so, essentially you still get the full damage but you can stim or at least try to escape instead of being unable to move which makes micro impossible which I don't like. I can't recall the defiler's spell but it was that red one, plague I think it was called. Was great to just pop up, plague then burrow again









Edit: 2999 posts!


----------



## Sainesk

how do I deal with tanks as Z? Big really owned me yesterday with them...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13337444*
> how do I deal with tanks as Z? Big really owned me yesterday with them...


Depends on your build. Always know where Terran's army is, and try to catch them unsieged because you can just 1A your sling/bane army if he isn't sieged. If you get a heads up on him moving out, and you have muta, snipe as many tanks off as you can before he gets anywhere near your base ( also snipe them when harassing his bases ). The longer the distance between your bases the more opportunity you have to take out all his tanks or get him unsieged. That's another advantage of creep spread too, knowing his position for those situations.

If you play infestor style its the same thing, except you want a large amount of your army outside his base to continually FG his army on the way towards your base. Marines are ideal of course.

That or just make a **** ton of sling/bane ( macro hatch required ), upgrade, and you may not even need muta or infestor.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13337473*
> Depends on your build. Always know where Terran's army is


Big was being a sneaky ninja









forgot about the back route on XC I think it was...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13337496*
> Big was being a sneaky ninja
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forgot about the back route on XC I think it was...


To be honest that's like giving him a free win. You should also have your overlords spread out some what. Always keep a ling around his base to see when he is moving out. Even a burrow baneling would be nice for intel, even being scanned.


----------



## Allenssmart

if he's not sieged you win the game unless he just happens to be immvp and executes a 300 apm marine split. i always leapfrog, can't risk getting caught with my tanks unsieged.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13337720*
> if he's not sieged you win the game unless he just happens to be immvp and executes a 300 apm marine split. i always leapfrog, can't risk getting caught with my tanks unsieged.


You can't ALWAYS leap frog, on alter for example. Sometimes you gotta scan ahead or scout with a hellion and pray.


----------



## CravinR1

So whats up with the increasing amount of Worker rush cheese.

I've been done that way a few times and they claim to be Diamond 1v1 players (doubt it)

Supposedly they team up to 2v2 and play bronze league (yeah I suck)

......... how do you stop the worker rush btw. When you are 2v2 and you have 2 players hitting one its hard to do anything with it


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13322281*
> Vikings do real nice, but yeah Thors are optimal unless the Z magic boxs


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13337795*
> You can't ALWAYS leap frog, on alter for example. Sometimes you gotta scan ahead or scout with a hellion and pray.


i've x'd that map. too big, too easy for zerg, terrible for terran. damn gsl maps


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13338014*
> i've x'd that map. too big, too easy for zerg, terrible for terran. damn gsl maps


I have all mine left unchecked because I got so much Terran vs Terran it wasn't even funny. Still get it a ton, but at least never on Alter lol.

Also the quote you quoted, vikings are real nice? Real nice against what? Not muta's lol.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13337905*
> So whats up with the increasing amount of Worker rush cheese.
> 
> I've been done that way a few times and they claim to be Diamond 1v1 players (doubt it)
> 
> Supposedly they team up to 2v2 and play bronze league (yeah I suck)
> 
> ......... how do you stop the worker rush btw. When you are 2v2 and you have 2 players hitting one its hard to do anything with it


wall off as terran or do some micro, repair SCV's while pushing out marines.
as Z use your queen/zerglings while microing drones
as P chrono out the zealot while microing probes

micro is my fav part of sc2








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13338024*
> I have all mine left unchecked because I got so much Terran vs Terran it wasn't even funny. Still get it a ton, but at least never on Alter lol.
> 
> Also the quote you quoted, vikings are real nice? Real nice against what? Not muta's lol.


Vikings can hold off that early muta harras if youre doing a 1/1/1 (destiny cloud fist) build or going for 2 ports.
Still remember how pwnsauce the original Valkaries were with their splash XD


----------



## DoomDash

You will basically never be able to have vikings be useful from a 1-1-1 opener if you didn't do huge economic damage or delay Zerg tech. 1-1-1 is too all in for me. They do work if you open with a successful hellion -- banshee build as long as you kill many drones.


----------



## Alex132

I do play a lot more team games than 1v1 though, so builds actually differ on there. Where builds often require you to gain your army at a certain time rather than continual pressure or do a large supportive build or sometimes just go your 1v1 builds


----------



## DoomDash

I play 99% 1v1 ^_^.


----------



## Alex132

I find it weird that a lot of the pro's lower their graphics A LOT when they play, just for better FPS?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13338361*
> I find it weird that a lot of the pro's lower their graphics A LOT when they play, just for better FPS?


It just looks simple and clean, gives them the feeling / look of BW.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The only problem is that at the lowest setting, the forcefield looks translucent and hard to see the edges. I liked using it on low just because it felt much faster less min fps time. However I couldn't see the forcefields properly.

Too bad no TSL this week. It's bee a great tournament so far. I'm rewatching boxer vs sen, really good 5 game series.


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer vs Sen was amazing.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13338086*
> wall off as terran or do some micro, repair SCV's while pushing out marines.
> as Z use your queen/zerglings while microing drones
> as P chrono out the zealot while microing probes
> 
> micro is my fav part of sc2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikings can hold off that early muta harras if youre doing a 1/1/1 (destiny cloud fist) build or going for 2 ports.
> Still remember how pwnsauce the original Valkaries were with their splash XD


I'm talking about being hit before you even put a pylon down, like in 10-20 seconds (when you're still making your first couple workers)

They'll rush their 10 workers to one persons base and take them out and then come to your base and take it out before you can wall.


----------



## DoomDash

If someone worker rushes you should have more workers, aka you should be able to hold it off if you just make sure all your workers are hitting.


----------



## Alex132

and repairing if you're terran


----------



## CravinR1

this is 2v2, both of them hit once, and before you can do anything the ally is dead (if you aren't the one being rushed)

And they come in a ball and you pull off the line, so they seem to get better surrounds.

I play alot of 2v2 since i'm still learning


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13339442*
> this is 2v2, both of them hit once, and before you can do anything the ally is dead (if you aren't the one being rushed)
> 
> And they come in a ball and you pull off the line, so they seem to get better surrounds.
> 
> I play *alot* of 2v2 since i'm still learning












Lol but yeah 2v2 require fast communication and 24/7 mini-map watch. You just get used to seeing enemy colors on the minimap after awhile out of the corner of your eye. it should draw your attention rapidly. But you should be able to hold it off with your ally's help


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13339442*
> this is 2v2, both of them hit once, and before you can do anything the ally is dead (if you aren't the one being rushed)
> 
> And they come in a ball and you pull off the line, so they seem to get better surrounds.
> 
> I play alot of 2v2 since i'm still learning


Your ally should buy you enough time to get some units out and/or wall off. He may be going to die, but at least he can do it as slowly as possible, running their probes around, trying to mine, but not engaging.

There's no way your opponents can worker-rush your ally, kill all his probes and get to your base before you have any structures up. They have no income, so you have the advantage as long as one of you is mining. It's actually not possible to lose to a worker rush as long as you know what to do.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


this is 2v2, both of them hit once, and before you can do anything the ally is dead (if you aren't the one being rushed)

And they come in a ball and you pull off the line, so they seem to get better surrounds.

I play alot of 2v2 since i'm still learning


The guy being attacked first should give all his money to you (once he can) and just keep his workers alive while harassing their workers without losing any units. Eventually they'll have to attack the nexus/hatchery/CC while he gets free kills. Once they finish destroying his base, you should have more than enough to stop them.

Heck, just make more workers and 0 units and you'll still beat them.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


how do I deal with tanks as Z? Big really owned me yesterday with them...










Well, you clobbered me on Plateau, thought I'll return the favour









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


Big was being a sneaky ninja









forgot about the back route on XC I think it was...


I used the map to my advantage







What doom wrote is pretty much the best method to go up against the tank composition. I'm sure we'll get more practice in and you'll eventually have no problem dealing with this composition









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


I find it weird that a lot of the pro's lower their graphics A LOT when they play, just for better FPS?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It just looks simple and clean, gives them the feeling / look of BW.


True, one thing that I find annoying though is doing wrapins looks just awful, but, some aspects of the game are much nicer because they aren't as shiny. Given, I wasn't able to keep it at that setting


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


how do I deal with tanks as Z? Big really owned me yesterday with them...










You should see terran coming a mile away, since you should have creep atleast out to the middle of the map. If you are not being rushed, drop a creep tumor instead of inject once your first queen pops put, and keep spreading. The second terran hits the creep go for it.

Early game roach/speedlings will be enough, later on you'll want Speedling/Blings/mutas or a tonne of roaches on different hotkeys. Speedlings around back at the tanks, blings and mutas/roaches hitting the M/M. Have overseers outside of their base to contaminate the factories and then counter.

If they are already sieged, make a few nydus and plant them in their base. If they head back, kill him from behind, if he ignores them take out his base. Just keep planting them until you get a reaction. If he only has a few units behind he can't kill them faster enough.

As for infestors being too powerful.. They are really only an option against passive opponents since you need a tonne of gas just to get them out. Most people get the increase in energy first then make them, so they are not making units that use gas for a few minutes.

You're almost as vulnerable waiting on infestors as you are expanding. I only use them when I know I have a tonne of time. If a zerg uses them on me I usually have double the roach count and more upgrades, so they end up being useless.

One more thing. In bigger battles later on in the game, you can bring a bunch of speed upgraded overlords and set them on top of your/their army. Makes it alot harder to micro away from banelings/infestors and you have to look at the HUD to see what's going on with your unit count. If they a-move they will be hitting overlords.


----------



## hglazm

Anybody got tips for a Z stuck in high gold? I've got pretty solid micro and macro, which is all I've focused on up to this point really.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


Anybody got tips for a Z stuck in high gold? I've got pretty solid micro and macro, which is all I've focused on up to this point really.


Well, what's the problem you're having?


----------



## hglazm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


Well, what's the problem you're having?


ZvZ I have serious issues early game. It always ends up being a 10 pool battle of ling/bling.
Otherwise, around the 7 minute mark I have issues all around. I either over-produce units but cant apply pressure because of walls or sentry, or under-produce and get pwned


----------



## Horsemama1956

haha, well zvz sucks until you figure it out. What is your opening? Scouting at like 7-8 is necessary.

If you can't apply pressure early on, I assume they aren't expanding? Then just contain them and drone up.

How are you seeing into their base if they are walling you out? Or is the problem you can't?


----------



## hglazm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


haha, well zvz sucks until you figure it out. What is your opening? Scouting at like 7-8 is necessary.

If you can't apply pressure early on, I assume they aren't expanding? Then just contain them and drone up.

How are you seeing into their base if they are walling you out? Or is the problem you can't?


10 pool, but if they hold it off I'm behind economically and generally end up losing the game.

If they're walled up I play blind, which I know is an awful idea, but eh. Most of the time I can end up scouting with a ling once they expand because they move the zealot/keep the depot lowered, though.


----------



## AblueXKRS

So I was just dropped from a game.

Custom game.

With just myself and 7 computer players. (Pretty sure they would not have minded waiting)

Well done AT&T. I've really come to rely on your excellent services and have developed a level of respect bordering on worship.

Or at least I would have, if I weren't lying so hard I'm surprised every single one of your employees hasn't dropped dead from the sheer force of the anger I now reserve almost entirely for you.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hglazm;13341980*
> 10 pool, but if they hold it off I'm behind economically and generally end up losing the game.
> 
> If they're walled up I play blind, which I know is an awful idea, but eh. Most of the time I can end up scouting with a ling once they expand because they move the zealot/keep the depot lowered, though.


For zerg/toss I usually go 14 pool/15 hatch. If they rush you should have 4 lings and drones to defend it. Terran you can go hatch first.

At the beginning of a match send your overlord out, and behind/beside his base after you have scouted it. Sacrifice it at around 30 supply to get a look, and keep doing it. As soon as you get a lair, get an overseer and use it to fly through. It can be used later to contaminate his buildings later on as well.


----------



## DoomDash

NASL / IGNPL :


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Idra is looking unstoppable recently. His ZvP is good now.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13347056*
> NASL / IGNPL :
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Idra is looking unstoppable recently. Infestors are op.


fixed


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer's map abuse is 2nd to none.


----------



## godofdeath

just went back and got that blitzkrieg achievement
sooooooooo hard or i just suck at it

the one with the battle cruiser is soooooooooooooooo slow

even worst than yipee kay yay with floating barracks


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer NASL:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah I saw those. I wish I was that smart in all I do.


----------



## onoz

LoL! You guys see this yet?

https://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/64894008773705728


----------



## DoomDash

lolol.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I"m actually watching the IGL finals right now.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Race win% over the past 6 months (pro only).

Super interesting information. The data is based on over 8000 matches at the pro level, it is the best representation of game balance available to us at this time.

Notice the overwhelming terran domination 6 months ago. I can't help but laugh when terrans call zerg/protoss payers "******s" for playing a "bs race". I have no problem with a terran claiming imbalance, but when it comes down to self-righteous defense, I get annoyed. But I digress.

It would be very interesting to see if the trends (especially ZvT) would continue. The game hasn't settled yet, and this is evident by the graph.

For me, it feels like PvZ is much harder than PvT, this graph supports that notion and it's a bit of a relief.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, very interesting. It seems like Blizzard is doing pretty good job on balancing the game and people are learning how to play. I guess the graph for Koreans can be skewed due to relatively small sample size, but it's still quite surprising.

I agree with PvZ being harder than PvT.


----------



## DoomDash

I bet code A makes up a lot of those stats. Code A is Terran city.

Code S round of 8 is pretty even currently, 3 T, 3 P, 2 Z. For some reason code S is generally better spread out than code A.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13354748*
> I bet code A makes up a lot of those stats. Code A is Terran city.
> 
> Code S round of 8 is pretty even currently, 3 T, 3 P, 2 Z. For some reason code S is generally better spread out than code A.


I have no idea what this means. I don't really follow any leagues, just watch replays when they're released. Care to educate me?


----------



## yks

Code A is like only ~30 matches. So it can range between 60-100 (pending on how well a series goes) of the 8000 games which is 0.011%

I wonder where the ~8000 matches came from, cause I'd rather not see ladder stats.


----------



## yks

http://twitpic.com/4sdkpv/full

here's chart for korea only


----------



## DoomDash

Where are the 8000 matches coming from?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13355425*
> I wonder where the ~8000 matches came from, cause I'd rather not see ladder stats.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13356152*
> Where are the 8000 matches coming from?


TLPD


----------



## DoomDash

Wow this is some sick ****:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218545

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bi7b6thh8o&[/ame]


----------



## Allenssmart

Dear fellow friends of the Terran race, those in support of human rights, Judge Raynor, the jury, and the audience. It has come to my attention that Blizzard Entertainment, Inc, an American video game developer and publisher, subsidiary of Activision Blizzard, is a racist anarchist company.

It has come to my clients' attention, the wholly inclusive Terran race, which the aforementioned company is actively engaging in discriminatory activities including, but not limited to the suppression, oppression, and removal of free speech.

The Terran strategy forum within Battle.net, a proprietary software licensed, multiplayer online service, has hereby been rendered useless by the implementation of a limit cap of 5 users per channel. The meta game of Terran is being halted while the other labeled "superior" races Protoss and Zerg, hereafter named the superior races, by Blizzard Entertainement, Inc, progress in developing new strategies. This halt of free speech and progression in meta game while the other races continue is an explicit and direct discriminatory act.

Under the United States Civil Rights Act of 1984, Title II, Section 201 (a), all persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin. The aforementioned discrimination by the aforementioned company, Blizzard Entertainement, Inc, is in direct violation of this law.

I hereby accuse Blizzard Entertainment, Inc, guilty of racial segregation, oppression, and a removal of human rights. Thank you.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Are you crying Imba? You do know that T1 terran units still destroys every other t1 unit in the game.

Doom that's pretty neat.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13357967*
> Are you crying Imba? You do know that T1 terran units still destroys every other t1 unit in the game.


Sarcasm.

It's just a bug.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267599524


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13357967*
> Are you crying Imba? You do know that T1 terran units still destroys every other t1 unit in the game.
> 
> Doom that's pretty neat.


Protoss:

1 gate robo
expand
forcefield ramp
make 5 colosssi
a-move
?????
profit


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13358320*
> Protoss:
> 
> 1 gate robo
> expand
> forcefield ramp
> make 5 colosssi
> a-move
> ?????
> profit


I've been playing protoss wrong all this time.








I guess I didn't follow meta-game evolution on battle.net forums close enough.


----------



## DoomDash

People do love to hate Protoss.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218655










Zergs and Terrans coming together to agree on something, it's beautiful.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


Protoss:

1 gate robo
expand
forcefield ramp
make 5 colosssi
a-move
?????
profit


I'm not sure if you were joking, but if you're getting beat by this consistently that's pretty bad. You have 6-7 ways of dealing with this protoss opener.


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty cool documentary on SCII.


----------



## IIowa

Why are marines half the size of battle cruisers in 2011??


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I'm not sure if you were joking, but if you're getting beat by this consistently that's pretty bad. You have 6-7 ways of dealing with this protoss opener.


apologize for playing that race scrub


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


apologize for playing that race scrub


I'm going to be honest, I don't always show Protoss players respect but you can at least be a little less insulting when you do it.


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


Protoss:

1 gate robo
expand
forcefield ramp
make 5 colosssi
a-move
?????
profit


This actually works?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


This actually works?


Only way it would work is if the opponent techs and doesn't rush

But I get rushed much more frequently then not


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


apologize for playing that race scrub


And what race pray tell, do you play? But if you can't get up the ramp vs 1 gate 1 robo with a single or double sentry opening, then you deserve to loose regardless Z or T.


----------



## yks

He plays gay-ran


----------



## yellowtoblerone

"with here with my hetero nerd mate artosis, casting from the mecca of starcraft Seoul Korea, here is the GSL"

ogs.Nada

vs

ogs.top

XD


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


He plays gay-ran


if you're going to insult someone, at least stay away from stereotypical homophobic insults. Even though I'm not gay, you should really shut your mouth.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


if you're going to insult someone, at least stay away from stereotypical homophobic insults. Even though I'm not gay, you should really shut your mouth.


lolololololol, okay mr. allen.

i wasn't calling you gay, i was insulting your race, kind of like how you diss all the other races cause of your suckiness and bias.

uneducated bias is the worse too, especially coming from the guy who used to ask the noob-est questions such as: 
Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


omg is it true u can unpause somebody if they paused? cause i paused and told the guy i'd brb and i went and took a piss and came back a minute later and it was UNPAUSED AND I WAS BEING ATTACKED!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


apologize for playing that race scrub


Did you apologize months ago for playing terran? You know, when they were absolutely dominating every match up?

Fact is, the game is ever-evolving and some races will be more powerful at times. It's EXTREMELY hypocritical to act self-righteous and victimized when you race is less powerful, especially as terran, given that the race dominated the majority of SC2 so far.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIowa;13360158*
> Why are marines half the size of battle cruisers in 2011??


they scaled them down probably because battle cruisers and carriers would take up half the map if they werent scaled down


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13365407*
> lolololololol, okay mr. allen.
> 
> i wasn't calling you gay, i was insulting your race, kind of like how you diss all the other races cause of your suckiness and bias.
> 
> uneducated bias is the worse too, especially coming from the guy who used to ask the noob-est questions such as:


good job finding a 4 month old post when i just bought the game. don't call me uneducated scrub, l2p the game


----------



## vdek

Changed my name in game to sKsVdek.597


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13366945*
> good job finding a 4 month old post when i just bought the game. don't call me uneducated scrub, l2p the game


Are you really serious? Because previously I thought you were just jokingly trolling everyone. Now you're just being an ahole. I lol'd at the irony of a terran asking other races to apologize for other races. Sure I'll apologize, as soon as I get cloaked voidrays, blue flame stalkers, sentries with concussive beams, zealots with stim, void prisms that heal and colossus that can aoe the ground and air like siege tanks and thors. And let's not even mention all my buildings can get up and fly away.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13366945*
> good job finding a 4 month old post when i just bought the game. don't call me uneducated scrub, l2p the game


ooo, getting mad are ya?

listen buddy, you were dissing the other races, so i *JOKINGLY* said, "gay-ran." now you're getting all butt-hurt? can't take a joke?

and you call LazorBeam a scrub just for telling you that you can react lots of different ways to a particular opener!?

telling me to shut my mouth cause I joked around and said, "gay-ran?"

You JUST got this game 4 MONTHS ago, so I don't know where all this self-righteousness is coming from.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13367170*
> void prisms that hea


Void prisms that heal shields (not HP) would give them a use other than harass, this should be further explored.


----------



## Ruckol1

About to stream, justin.tv/glorify !!


----------



## DoomDash

Terran pride.

I would never play Protoss. They lost all respect when the Colossus replaced the Reaver. Sad cause they were my best in BW.


----------



## Disabled Reaction

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.vimeo.com/22673282

Pretty cool documentary on SCII.


lol, these guys need girlfriends.


----------



## DoomDash

My gf plays SCII with me ^_^.


----------



## DoomDash

Everybody tune into state of the game tonight please ( idra will commentate all his matches for a week if we get 20,000 live viewers )

http://www.justin.tv/itmejp

I forget what time it starts but its tonight in a few hours.


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


My gf plays SCII with me ^_^.


Lucky... My GF was the one who bought SC2 for me. I let her use one of the trials. She got bored after the first game...


----------



## Lazorbeam

It's funny how cyclical this game is.

Last week I went on a losing streak and plunged from 630 to 450, felt like I'd never get out of that hole. Last night I go on a huge tear, winning 12 in a row and finishing 17-2. I just busted into the 700s so I'll call it quits for now. Changes I made to my usual game plan:

- No more fast expos vs zerg.
- Slower teching and transitions vs zerg.
- Mirroring my opponent's moves vs terran (this helps tremendously).
- 1 robo + 1 stargate vs terran instead of double robo when on 2 bases.
- Obsessive scouting vs zerg/terran.
- New ridiculous strat I've come up for PvP, haven't lost a single time with it, basically a 4-gate variant that I'm too lazy to describe.

Now I'd like to ask you guys something. Zergs: do you prefer when the toss FEs? Terrans: do you prefer when the protoss goes double robo or robo/stargate?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Everybody tune into state of the game tonight please ( idra will commentate all his matches for a week if we get 20,000 live viewers )

http://www.justin.tv/itmejp

I forget what time it starts but its tonight in a few hours.


It's on now pre-show.


----------



## ablearcher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


It's funny how cyclical this game is.

Last week I went on a losing streak and plunged from 630 to 450, felt like I'd never get out of that hole. Last night I go on a huge tear, winning 12 in a row and finishing 17-2. I just busted into the 700s so I'll call it quits for now. Changes I made to my usual game plan:

- No more fast expos vs zerg.
- Slower teching and transitions vs zerg.
- Mirroring my opponent's moves vs terran (this helps tremendously).
- 1 robo + 1 stargate vs terran instead of double robo when on 2 bases.
- Obsessive scouting vs zerg/terran.
- New ridiculous strat I've come up for PvP, haven't lost a single time with it, basically a 4-gate variant that I'm too lazy to describe.

Now I'd like to ask you guys something. Zergs: do you prefer when the toss FEs? Terrans: do you prefer when the protoss goes double robo or robo/stargate?


toss FE when I am zerg means I have to double expand (risky) or all in timing attack (still risky, since I suck at this game)

Either way, I try to harrass with speedlings to force extra cannons before double expanding.

I'd rather,as terran, toss go robo/gate. Most players cannot seem to make up their mind at that point whether they wany to go stargate units or tech to collussi.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


Protoss:

1 gate robo
expand
forcefield ramp
make 5 colosssi
a-move
?????
profit


U serious?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


People do love to hate Protoss.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218655










Zergs and Terrans coming together to agree on something, it's beautiful.


Indeed, read through the first couple of pages, page 3 has more of those comics









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Void prisms that heal shields (not HP) would give them a use other than harass, this should be further explored.


Void prisms are awesome. I remember this one game, I think against a terran on meta where I used them to drop into his exp(wrapped units) and then took out his OC and retreated right before his MMM ball came. They allowed me to retain map control as well. BTW, did I mention how awesome wrapping dts into someone's base is?








I think they are underused a lot. An idea I have is to use them to be able to wrap in reinforcements, kind of like a pylon but incase the pylon gets sniped, you still have the prism. Also, you can use them to drop a pylon into someone's base and then build cannons then a pylon to save time, etc.... Kinda like how you can transport a queen with an OL then drop creep and lay down a creep tumour, very fun









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran pride.

I would never play Protoss. They lost all respect when the Colossus replaced the Reaver. Sad cause they were my best in BW.


lol, talk about limiting your game. meh, your choice. Playing P is great, only 
complaint is PvP can be annoying









^^Guys, take it easy, although I do have to say calling someone a scrub was the first "insult". Given, it also depends on who said it and if they were joking or not


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


It's funny how cyclical this game is.

Last week I went on a losing streak and plunged from 630 to 450, felt like I'd never get out of that hole. Last night I go on a huge tear, winning 12 in a row and finishing 17-2. I just busted into the 700s so I'll call it quits for now. Changes I made to my usual game plan:

- No more fast expos vs zerg.
- Slower teching and transitions vs zerg.
- Mirroring my opponent's moves vs terran (this helps tremendously).
- 1 robo + 1 stargate vs terran instead of double robo when on 2 bases.
- Obsessive scouting vs zerg/terran.
- New ridiculous strat I've come up for PvP, haven't lost a single time with it, basically a 4-gate variant that I'm too lazy to describe.

Now I'd like to ask you guys something. Zergs: do you prefer when the toss FEs? Terrans: do you prefer when the protoss goes double robo or robo/stargate?


I agree, its amazing how you can go on some crazy winning streak one day then a tilt the next day









As for your questions, well:
Zergs: I actually don't, because, I like to stay up one base on P/T so sometimes I'll double exp if I think I can hold it.
Terrans: I think robo/stargate is my preference. VRs are great but MMM is the backbone of a terran's army so you'll always have marines, not to mention you can kite VRs with vikings(as I recall, could be wrong). Phenoixes are great for scouting, but, since they only attack air units(too bad scouts aren't in SCII







), I don't fear them much. I think robo/stargate is much stronger against Zerg due to lack of AA early on as well as sniping OLs which you can't do for a Terran








*Take what you want with a grain of salt due to my league*


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's on now pre-show.


I'm watching this. What is it for?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


I'm watching this. What is it for?


They talk about the news of the game / state of the game every week on this day. But today specifically idra wants 20,000 people to watch it live, if that happens he will commentate his live stream all week. They all pros besides JP.

Yes Ladder is very volatile. I was 790 last week now I'm 724 right now. I lost 200 points, now I'm on a 5-6 win streak.


----------



## onoz

holy cow, they go offline for 2 minutes and it drops to <100 views.


----------



## DoomDash

Idra promises p u ssy for viewers:


----------



## DoomDash

Wait, what?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Wait, what?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


was just about to post that.

terran t3 gets nerfed. WAIT. WHAT?

ALSO, CONSIDERING 0.5625 ENERGY PER SECOND REGEN, IT NOW TAKES 267 SECONDS FOR 250MM TO RECHARGE, UP FROM THE PREVIOUS 50 seconds.

I MEAN SERIOUSLY BLIZZARD, 250MM IS OP NOW?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


was just about to post that.

terran t3 gets nerfed. WAIT. WHAT?


and the archon gets another buff...


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


was just about to post that.

terran t3 gets nerfed. WAIT. WHAT?


What nerf is that? Ghosts get a buff imo, and the bunker? That is still OP. Protoss can't refund cannons, and zerg cant refund spines..bs imo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


What nerf is that? Ghosts get a buff imo, and the bunker? That is still OP. Protoss can't refund cannons, and zerg cant refund spines..bs imo.


Do you have to load cannons or spines with units? That's terrible logic Cory.

Also Spines can ******* move for free.

Ghost change is a buff and a nerf.

Still that change is bull****. Way too many buffs for Protoss for no reason. TvP is now going to be ****ed up late game all over again.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do you have to load cannons or spines with units? That's terrible logic Cory.

Also Spines can ******* move for free.

Ghost change is a buff and a nerf.

Still that change is bull****. Way too many buffs for Protoss for no reason. TvP is now going to be ****ed up late game all over again.


so all you protoss scrubs out there....

don't complain about terran massing up t1 units. t3 units are bad, siege tanks are completely ineffective, and you have 3 ways of dealing with mmm + viking.

colossi, the most op unit in the game
psi storm now counters terran t3 (bcruiser, thor)
now archons are better

don't say we don't evolve our meta game. don't say we mass t1 units and cry when we lose to t3. btw doomdash, you're the only person that kept me staying on terran. but now that i look at these new patch notes, if the patch goes through i'm done with terran.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do you have to load cannons or spines with units? That's terrible logic Cory.

Also Spines can ******* move for free.

Ghost change is a buff and a nerf.

Still that change is bull****. Way too many buffs for Protoss for no reason. TvP is now going to be ****ed up late game all over again.


Your logic is broken. What has changed late game? Nothing other than the fact that terran can't make a million bunkers in the middle of the map, and that Archons are now a unit that is actually useful, and not something that can be kited all day long by a pack of marauders. Not that I felt that PvT needed to change anything, but the Archon deserved to be a massive unit. I think that Terran mech play hasn't really been implemented that much in TvP because bio is already strong. Hopefully more new builds will come about from these patches. Bio gets old.

Imo Protoss received the worst in the patch. Every build for every matchup has altered for Protoss. The ghost's cost and the bunker nerf barely affects Terran at all.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Your logic is broken. What has changed late game? Nothing other than the fact that terran can't make a million bunkers in the middle of the map, and that Archons are now a unit that is actually useful, and not something that can be kited all day long by a pack of marauders. Not that I felt that PvT needed to change anything, but the Archon deserved to be a massive unit.

Imo Protoss received the worst in the patch. Every build for every matchup has altered for Protoss. The ghost's cost and the bunker nerf barely affects Terran at all.


protoss recieved the worst? a million bunkers? who builds bunkers against colossi? his logic is broken? he's high masters. i'm mid-high diamond, what are you, silver? u can feedback thors and bcruiers, and when hts run out of energy they can make actually decent units. seriously dude, think before you talk.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Your logic is broken. What has changed late game? Nothing other than the fact that terran can't make a million bunkers in the middle of the map, and that Archons are now a unit that is actually useful, and not something that can be kited all day long by a pack of marauders.

Imo Protoss received the worst in the patch. Every build for every matchup has altered for Protoss. The ghost's cost and the bunker nerf barely affects Terran at all.


This shows that your logic is broken. You are right Archons can be kitted all day by Marauders, but they have 360 HP and Marauders only do 10 damage to them. With no slow, it would take ALL day and stims to outspeed them. So after your Templar storm my entire army and we both have almost nothing left, you form archons and you will clean everything up. If not, you are still getting free shots from all your ranged units. Zealots were already amazing at tanking Marauder shells, got a buff recently, we don't need more, HIGHER hp units forcing us to take hits from all your ranged units as well. This is just completely broken in theory, think about it man. If you can honestly think that's not a problem you are just plain crazy. Look at Nada vs Genius during their last GSL match, game 1... even with concusive shells slowing he had to micro across the entire frickin map just to kill 2 archons and a couple stalkers. You think they need to make that worse? You really have some sort of Protoss entitlement if you believe this.

Bunker change doesn't bother me... and I rarely saw anyone abuse them that well anyway so I don't care about that.

The Thor change bothers me the most. Instead of Blizzard giving Protoss players time to adapt to mass Thor builds, which lets be honest, aren't that common... they just completely screw thors over.

Thor's go back to being terrible. Why should I lose up to 200 Energy for a spell I may not even research? That's ******ed. Were Protoss players struggling late game vs Terran anywhere? No.

Also Terran has got nerfed just as bad as Protoss since release, if not worse.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


protoss recieved the worst? a million bunkers? who builds bunkers against colossi? his logic is broken? he's high masters. i'm mid-high diamond, what are you, silver? u can feedback thors and bcruiers, and when hts run out of energy they can make actually decent units. seriously dude, think before you talk.


No offense but what league are you? A simple link in my signature can show you, instead of you being ignorant. I'm not exactly pro, but I barely play this game...and I'm not going to rant that my teammate had beat Idra, Incontrol, Minigun, etc within the past week on ladder.

@DoomDash: I'm Protoss, your Terran. Obviously we aren't going to agree on whats balanced. (Ghosts, *cough*, ghosts) It's like listening to Idra right now saying that Zerg is the worst race, yet he just won a championship







. I officially hate Idra. He sucks lol. Can we agree on that?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


No offense but what league are you? A simple link in my signature can show you, instead of you being ignorant. I'm not exactly pro, but I barely play this game...and I'm not going to rant that my teammate had beat Idra, Incontrol, Minigun, etc within the past week on ladder.

@DoomDash: I'm Protoss, your Terran. Obviously we aren't going to agree on whats balanced. (Ghosts, *cough*, ghosts) It's like listening to Idra right now saying that Zerg is the worst race, yet he just won a championship







. I officially hate Idra. He sucks lol. Can we agree on that?


Idra is a little girl thats for sure.

But do you see what my point is about archons / thor energy? I felt like I just got kicked in the pills man. The Thor change especially was below the belt.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Thors with energy again for a skill that doesn't even get used? Well, I guess it's back to EMP on my own forces so that Feedback doesn't halve their HP. Because of a skill I won't use.

Just to reiterate, 250mm Cannons doesn't get used.

If you use Thors in late game TvZ this might change some things- rather than seeing Ultralisks and going "did I research 250mm Cannons because I had too much money? I did? Well, I guess it will be useful." You'll go "did I research Cannons? Nope, because it wouldn't have been ready in time anyways."


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Idra is a little girl thats for sure.

But do you see what my point is about archons / thor energy? I felt like I just got kicked in the pills man. The Thor change especially was below the belt.


Like you said, thors are underused to begin with in PvT. I just feel like Terran is like "I'm going bio, it works" most games. I truly believe mech can be viable, but no1 is using it because bio is so damn good.

For HT's if there is an option to either feedback thors or storm bio, it's going to be storming bio. Feedbacking thors would literally be the last thing on my mind behind storm, and feedbacking ghosts, and feedbacking any potential bcs (late game).

Do you see the Protoss side of Archons? I mean come on. Almost zero percent of Protoss's make archons just to make archons. They make them because 1. The Ht's got emped, or 2. because they are out of storms and already losing the battle. So imo making Archons massive is not that big a deal, and they should've been massive from the start for the amount of resources they cost.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Like you said, thors are underused to begin with in PvT. I just feel like Terran is like "I'm going bio, it works" most games. I truly believe mech can be viable, but no1 is using it because bio is so damn good.

For HT's if there is an option to either feedback thors or storm bio, it's going to be storming bio. Feedbacking thors would literally be the last thing on my mind behind storm, and feedbacking ghosts, and feedbacking any potential bcs (late game).

Do you see the Protoss side of Archons? I mean come on. Almost zero percent of Protoss's make archons just to make archons. They make them because 1. The Ht's got emped, or 2. because they are out of storms and already losing the battle. So imo making Archons massive is not that big a deal, and they should've been massive from the start for the amount of resources they cost.


Blizzard has said that Archons were not intended / designed to be anything but a back up. That's what they were. Now they are going to be too powerful to be considered anything close to a back up unit. I already think that Templars are still good, and I don't see why they need to make Templar tech even better.

I've played around with Mass Thor's plenty, and the day the energy on the Cannons was removed I even practiced a few Thor openers vs you the very same day. I think Mass Thor's IS ok, but its not easy to live getting the numbers you need, and lets be honest it wasn't common enough to nerf just yet. Maybe they were too powerful, certainly was not even close to proven, so why not let the game get figured out vs just a completely out of the blue change. Do you want your race to get nerfed just because a new strategy isn't figured out yet?

The ghost change will be interesting. I'm trying to be positive because if this wasn't here I would be tempted to out right quit SCII. I hope it is a buff more than a nerf.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Blizzard has said that Archons were not intended / designed to be anything but a back up. That's what they were. Now they are going to be too powerful to be considered anything close to a back up unit. I already think that Templars are still good, and I don't see why they need to make Templar tech even better.

I've played around with Mass Thor's plenty, and the day the energy on the Cannons was removed I even practiced a few Thor openers vs you the very same day. I think Mass Thor's IS ok, but its not easy to live getting the numbers you need, and lets be honest it wasn't common enough to nerf just yet. Maybe they were too powerful, certainly was not even close to proven, so why not let the game get figured out vs just a completely out of the blue change. Do you want your race to get nerfed just because a new strategy isn't figured out yet?

The ghost change will be interesting. I'm trying to be positive because if this wasn't here I would be tempted to out right quit SCII. I hope it is a buff more than a nerf.


I really don't think Protoss are going to be feedbacking Thors any time soon. If thors were awesome vs Protoss they would be OP. Tanks are the much better option in PvT already, and the Protoss air is weak...aside from a VoidRay all in. Marines snap P's air. Thor's are an awkward unit, they only work in TvZ, but I think it's fair.

Protoss doesn't have the drop capability like the other races. Medivacs can heal, and overlords...are everywhere, not to mention nydus. The Warp Prism is a POS for the most part, and deciding between observers, colossus, and warp prisms limits its options.

BTW guys I JUST GRADUATED COLLEGE!!! **** YEAAHHHHHHH!


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats on graduating.

I think tanks are pretty bad vs Protoss in 95% of situations personally.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13374341*
> Congrats on graduating.
> 
> I think tanks are pretty bad vs Protoss in 95% of situations personally.


Thanks









Ehhhh. That's the thinking that makes people go bio. The pro's go bio, and everyone else follows. I think mech will become more popular eventually. Blue flame hellion, tank, banshee can be pretty damn good.

If you remember tanks used to be used a lot in TvP, before they were nerfed 15 damage or so. Can't remember if that was Beta or retail.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13374366*
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ehhhh. That's the thinking that makes people go bio. The pro's go bio, and everyone else follows. I think mech will become more popular eventually. Blue flame hellion, tank, banshee can be pretty damn good.
> 
> If you remember tanks used to be used a lot in TvP, before they were nerfed 15 damage or so. Can't remember if that was Beta or retail.


It was more than 15 damage. It was 25 damage less vs light, and 10 damage vs armored. I see pros use tanks too... and that's when they get crushed by a Protoss who doesn't do anything fancy, they just make the right units and kinda walk out of bunker / tank contains.

I watched qxc try tanks for months too... and to quote him "when I make mech vs Protoss I just think of all the ways they can kill me". That's exactly how I feel, and it has nothing to do with the pros.

The tank is my favorite unit in the game, I would love for it to be better vs Protoss.

It does have SOME situations on a few maps where you can abuse the range safely, but beyond that not impressed. Protoss has too many counters to it.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13374407*
> It was more than 15 damage. It was 25 damage less vs light, and 10 damage vs armored. I see pros use tanks too... and that's when they get crushed by a Protoss who doesn't do anything fancy, they just make the right units and kinda walk out of bunker / tank contains.
> 
> I watched qxc try tanks for months too... and to quote him "when I make mech vs Protoss I just think of all the ways they can kill me". That's exactly how I feel, and it has nothing to do with the pros.
> 
> The tank is my favorite unit in the game, I would love for it to be better vs Protoss.
> 
> It does have SOME situations on a few maps where you can abuse the range safely, but beyond that not impressed. Protoss has too many counters to it.


Obviously there are certain unit combinations that work and others that don't. If an certain combination worked in every scenario it would be OP, but you know that. The marine/tank/raven/banshee all in is still pretty strong vs P for the simple fact that scouting is hard for P, and getting a robo takes times, and getting hallo leaves you vunerable to 3 rax all ins.


----------



## DoomDash

I only all in vs Zergs in close pos ( sometimes ).


----------



## CravinR1

I find my best chance of success with protoss vs zerg in the silver league (where I'm at) is to 2 gate rush them asap with 3-5 zealots (before they mass roaches)


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13374661*
> I find my best chance of success with protoss vs zerg in the silver league (where I'm at) is to 2 gate rush them asap with 3-5 zealots (before they mass roaches)


Wall off, scout, go immortals they will CHEW through roaches, then get the Colossi out and it's gg.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13374742*
> Wall off, scout, go immortals they will CHEW through roaches, then get the Colossi out and it's gg.


How do you expand if you wall off ?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wall off the natural. You either forge fe and wall off the natural, or #gate expand while either walling it off with pylons, buildings, canons or wall off certain areas while leaving other areas open, then have your sentries ready while you expand. ogs.MC vs liqRet on met (day9 video) is a great example of a forge FE that guard against ling runby (but not vs roach bust).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13374513*
> Obviously there are certain unit combinations that work and others that don't. If an certain combination worked in every scenario it would be OP, but you know that. The marine/tank/raven/banshee all in is still pretty strong vs P for the simple fact that scouting is hard for P, and getting a robo takes times, and getting hallo leaves you vunerable to 3 rax all ins.


I've see that strat work in so many pro games to say it is indeed very powerful. What I can see on ladder is that terran will always have a strategy in mind that can kill P in one attack. There are timings where each bo leaves the terran very vulnerable to a timing attack. Toss can win by winning that way.

The best thing about these terran one or one and a half basing plays is that they have the contain or map control, they can revert to macro from an all in situation and still come out ahead.


----------



## DoomDash

My TvP is @ 70%+ in ladder, and I can tell you from my own experiences that those all ins are really gimmicky and most people who lose to them deserve it. That and bio is better 99% of the time.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sure, but doesn't mean it doesn't work on ladder or pro level as we've seen.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Sure, but doesn't mean it doesn't work on ladder or pro level as we've seen.


Yeah, I don't see them that often anymore though.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13373678*
> was just about to post that.
> 
> terran t3 gets nerfed. WAIT. WHAT?
> 
> ALSO, CONSIDERING 0.5625 ENERGY PER SECOND REGEN, IT NOW TAKES 267 SECONDS FOR 250MM TO RECHARGE, UP FROM THE PREVIOUS 50 seconds.
> 
> I MEAN SERIOUSLY BLIZZARD, 250MM IS OP NOW?


Question: Have you ever used 250mm cannons? I think they added the energy back in so that you don't have to wait for the cooldown but rather once you get the energy back up, you can use it again. Might make them more susceptible to feedback but as Cory mentioned, most P are concerned with storming rather than feedbacking unless its a ghost








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13373794*
> Do you have to load cannons or spines with units? That's terrible logic Cory.
> 
> Also Spines can ******* move for free.
> 
> Ghost change is a buff and a nerf.
> 
> Still that change is bull****. Way too many buffs for Protoss for no reason. TvP is now going to be ****ed up late game all over again.


Spines might be able to move for free and its nice, but, their burrow time is horrible and in the midst of battle seems like it takes forever.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13373954*
> protoss recieved the worst? a million bunkers? who builds bunkers against colossi? his logic is broken? he's high masters. i'm mid-high diamond, *what are you, silver?* u can feedback thors and bcruiers, and when hts run out of energy they can make actually decent units. *seriously dude, think before you talk.*











Open: http://www.sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/
Look towards the top, you'll find your answer @ inferno








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13373958*
> This shows that your logic is broken. You are right Archons can be kitted all day by Marauders, but they have 360 HP and Marauders only do 10 damage to them. With no slow, it would take ALL day and stims to outspeed them. So after your Templar storm my entire army and we both have almost nothing left, you form archons and you will clean everything up.
> .....
> Also Terran has got nerfed just as bad as Protoss since release, if not worse.


Just wanted to point out that while the archon is being made, you get free shots depending on how many units he has left to defend the merger








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13374285*
> I really don't think Protoss are going to be feedbacking Thors any time soon. If thors were awesome vs Protoss they would be OP. Tanks are the much better option in PvT already, and the Protoss air is weak...aside from a VoidRay all in. Marines snap P's air. Thor's are an awkward unit, they only work in TvZ, but I think it's fair.
> 
> Protoss doesn't have the drop capability like the other races. Medivacs can heal, and overlords...are everywhere, not to mention nydus. The Warp Prism is a POS for the most part, and deciding between observers, colossus, and warp prisms limits its options.
> 
> BTW guys I JUST GRADUATED COLLEGE!!! **** YEAAHHHHHHH!


I disagree, I think prisms are such awesome units. I'm pretty confident that they'll see more usage in the near future. Something like using the energy field for cannons then making a pylon, wrapping in units into an enemy's base(dts, etc....). I agree on one thing, it can't heal units like the medivacs but its a great unit considering it only costs minerals. Wonder what it would be like if Blizzard made prisms+energy recharger(or whatever the structure was from BW)








Congrats on the graduation!!!!!!!!!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13374661*
> I find my best chance of success with protoss vs zerg in the silver league (where I'm at) is to 2 gate rush them asap with 3-5 zealots (before they mass roaches)


no need to do that at all, given it's going to be more viable with the lower zealot build time. What you need to do is scout and find out if they have a lair and the tech path he's taking. If he's still on a hatchery, I've been able to make some stargates and then cb out some VRs. It took me 8 VRs(3VRs lost, 1 VR lost in the other 5) to take out his lair and then hatchery causing my opponent to have a delayed den so I was able to exp and add more structures. Point is, against Z, knowing what they are doing at all times including when they move out is pretty crucial to win.
In that specific game, my opponent noticed my heavy ground based army(zealots in that case), so, he tech switched to mutas and due to his bad macro, had something like 3k gas and minerals, so, he got 30 mutas in no time. I scouted this, cb out some phenoixes(8 I believe) and then with my zealots+2 colossi+8 VRs took on his slings+roaches+mutas. I lost my VRs+phenoixes, but, my zealots+colossi were unharmed and I was able to crush him after that. I uploaded the replay a while back(also have link in sig), maybe something in it will help you out








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13374742*
> Wall off, scout, go immortals they will CHEW through roaches, then get the Colossi out and it's gg.










Still on about how P is imba?







How about this. We have some ZvsP and PvsZ games each taking turns being P/Z. It'll be good practice and we can see how well your P crushes my Z


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13376107*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still on about how P is imba?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about this. We have some ZvsP and PvsZ games each taking turns being P/Z. It'll be good practice and we can see how well your P crushes my Z


That doesn't really prove anything







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13376143*
> That doesn't really prove anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


rofl, maybe not







but I like P/TvsZ games especially TvsZ and this way I get some PvsZ action







I like the way T plays, everything from the drop harass to banshees to nukes, tanks, marines, etc.... Given I also like a lot of P units as well as Z


----------



## DoomDash

Oh yks, you so silly.

(5:27:22 AM) SupraDoom: seeker missle needs a range buff
(5:27:25 AM) SupraDoom: to start it
(5:27:34 AM) k0n1t: but then you'll see it
(5:27:35 AM) SupraDoom: then It would actually be cool vs infestor play
(5:27:37 AM) k0n1t: froma mile away
(5:27:41 AM) SupraDoom: yeah but
(5:27:46 AM) SupraDoom: thats 1 guaranteed dead infestor
(5:27:52 AM) SupraDoom: well
(5:27:54 AM) SupraDoom: maybe not
(5:27:54 AM) k0n1t: its like infestor speed reduction being a buff
(5:27:58 AM) k0n1t: increase doesn't mean buff
(5:28:02 AM) k0n1t: and decrease doesn't mean nerf
(5:28:26 AM) k0n1t: its all on how it works
(5:28:34 AM) k0n1t: longer seeker range
(5:28:38 AM) k0n1t: would be nerf
(5:28:58 AM) SupraDoom: No
(5:29:00 AM) SupraDoom: it would be buff
(5:29:02 AM) SupraDoom: and let me tell you why
(5:29:11 AM) SupraDoom: because you can still move in closer before casting
(5:29:12 AM) SupraDoom: :/
(5:29:20 AM) SupraDoom: you dont need to launch it at a longer range
(5:29:23 AM) SupraDoom: you just have the option
(5:29:47 AM) k0n1t: what?
(5:29:54 AM) SupraDoom: no matter what
(5:29:55 AM) SupraDoom: its a buff
(5:29:56 AM) k0n1t: that makes no sense
(5:29:56 AM) SupraDoom: like
(5:30:03 AM) SupraDoom: Its range 6 right now
(5:30:04 AM) SupraDoom: iirc
(5:30:05 AM) SupraDoom: ok?
(5:30:07 AM) SupraDoom: So
(5:30:17 AM) SupraDoom: If it was range 9
(5:30:27 AM) SupraDoom: there are some cases it would be safer to cast it from range 9
(5:30:29 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:30:39 AM) SupraDoom: lots of cases it would be worse from range 9
(5:30:42 AM) SupraDoom: but the thing is
(5:30:45 AM) SupraDoom: if you had range 9 with it
(5:30:55 AM) SupraDoom: you could move to range six with the raven then use it
(5:30:57 AM) k0n1t: if it has more cons than pros, then its not a buff
(5:31:02 AM) SupraDoom: it has more pros
(5:31:04 AM) SupraDoom: then cons
(5:31:06 AM) SupraDoom: its a buff
(5:31:11 AM) SupraDoom: no matter what at range 9
(5:31:20 AM) k0n1t: the way the AI works is, it will always cast max range
(5:31:29 AM) SupraDoom: lol not if you tell it to move closer
(5:31:31 AM) SupraDoom: so who cares
(5:31:37 AM) SupraDoom: you can just move your unit closer
(5:31:45 AM) SupraDoom: it would have to move there anyway if it was range six
(5:31:52 AM) k0n1t: which is better
(5:31:56 AM) k0n1t: cause raven's are faster
(5:31:59 AM) k0n1t: then the seeker
(5:32:01 AM) k0n1t: speed
(5:32:07 AM) k0n1t: if a raven has the ability to seeker right under it
(5:32:11 AM) k0n1t: it'd be better
(5:32:13 AM) SupraDoom: doesnt matter, because with range 9 you can still launch at range six
(5:32:13 AM) k0n1t: than range 9
(5:32:24 AM) SupraDoom: so it would hit the target at the same time
(5:32:30 AM) k0n1t: no
(5:32:34 AM) SupraDoom: oh man
(5:32:39 AM) k0n1t: if you start a cast @ range 9
(5:32:40 AM) SupraDoom: you are not thinking this one out








(5:32:43 AM) k0n1t: seeker travel time
(5:32:45 AM) k0n1t: is longer
(5:32:45 AM) SupraDoom: you are not hearing me
(5:32:47 AM) k0n1t: than moving the raven
(5:32:49 AM) SupraDoom: YOU ARE NOT LISTENING
(5:32:53 AM) SupraDoom: you are just talking right now
(5:32:53 AM) k0n1t: YUO AREN'T LISTENING
(5:32:56 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:33:00 AM) SupraDoom: Dude
(5:33:02 AM) SupraDoom: LISTEN TO ME
(5:33:03 AM) SupraDoom: I DIDNT SAY
(5:33:06 AM) SupraDoom: launch from range 9
(5:33:16 AM) k0n1t: you want to option to make it worse by having range 9
(5:33:36 AM) SupraDoom: I said launch your range 9 seeker missile AT RANGE 6, would be the same as launching your range six seeker missile at range six!!!
(5:34:05 AM) SupraDoom: but in some cases range 9 would be better
(5:34:13 AM) SupraDoom: like on a u nit that cannot move faster than a seeker missile
(5:34:17 AM) SupraDoom: so with range 9
(5:34:18 AM) SupraDoom: all it does
(5:34:24 AM) SupraDoom: is open up more options for launching it
(5:34:33 AM) SupraDoom: You don't NEED to cast it at max range
(5:35:10 AM) k0n1t: what?
(5:35:22 AM) k0n1t: launch at 9 missile @ 6?
(5:35:25 AM) k0n1t: how does that make sense
(5:35:32 AM) SupraDoom: k before saying anything
(5:35:47 AM) SupraDoom: pretend
(5:35:56 AM) SupraDoom: you have a raven out of range of a stalker
(5:36:10 AM) SupraDoom: you have a range six seeker missile
(5:36:22 AM) SupraDoom: you cast it on the stalker
(5:36:35 AM) SupraDoom: as soon as the raven gets in the range to cast seeker missile
(5:36:39 AM) SupraDoom: the stalker should fire his first shot
(5:36:49 AM) SupraDoom: even letting the AI do it
(5:36:53 AM) SupraDoom: what I am saying is
(5:36:56 AM) SupraDoom: in the same situation
(5:37:02 AM) SupraDoom: with a range 9 seeker missile
(5:37:21 AM) SupraDoom: you can just go towards the stalker manually, until the stalker fires at you, like my previous example
(5:37:26 AM) SupraDoom: and then cast seeker missile
(5:37:34 AM) SupraDoom: which means seeker missile is being casted @ range six
(5:37:40 AM) SupraDoom: even though you CAN launch it at range 9
(5:37:51 AM) SupraDoom: got it?
(5:37:55 AM) k0n1t: no!
(5:38:03 AM) SupraDoom: sigh
(5:38:07 AM) k0n1t: if the raven
(5:38:12 AM) k0n1t: is 15 ranges away
(5:38:21 AM) k0n1t: and i click seeker and click a unit
(5:38:32 AM) k0n1t: the raven will move towards that unit
(5:38:36 AM) k0n1t: til its in range to seeker
(5:38:39 AM) SupraDoom: yes
(5:38:45 AM) SupraDoom: which is why in my second example
(5:38:51 AM) SupraDoom: I mentioned you manually move it to range six
(5:38:57 AM) k0n1t: so there's no such thing as a luanch range!!!!!
(5:39:07 AM) SupraDoom: it deploys
(5:39:09 AM) SupraDoom: at range six
(5:39:19 AM) SupraDoom: six range away from i ts target
(5:39:28 AM) k0n1t: thats seeker range!
(5:39:34 AM) SupraDoom: yep
(5:39:43 AM) k0n1t: so theres no such thing as luanch range!
(5:40:09 AM) SupraDoom: it launches at range six, aka its seeker range
(5:40:22 AM) k0n1t: so when do you want the seeker
(5:40:24 AM) k0n1t: to leave
(5:40:29 AM) k0n1t: the raven's
(5:40:30 AM) k0n1t: body
(5:40:40 AM) SupraDoom: you are asking me?
(5:40:43 AM) k0n1t: yeah
(5:40:51 AM) SupraDoom: situational, but with range 9 it would have more options ....
(5:40:57 AM) k0n1t: with range 9
(5:41:00 AM) k0n1t: it would be a nerf!
(5:41:03 AM) SupraDoom: sigh
(5:41:05 AM) k0n1t: cause the opponent see's it coming
(5:41:08 AM) k0n1t: FROM FARTHER AWAY
(5:41:14 AM) SupraDoom: THATS IF YOU WANT TO LAUNCH IT AT RANGE 9
(5:41:25 AM) k0n1t: WHY WOULD YUO EVER START SEEKER AT RANGE 9
(5:41:27 AM) SupraDoom: YOU CAN LAUNCH IT FRMO ANYTHING 9 AND BELOW
(5:41:36 AM) SupraDoom: Let me give you an example
(5:41:40 AM) SupraDoom: let me give you a few
(5:41:58 AM) SupraDoom: Example 1
(5:42:07 AM) SupraDoom: You want to kill a queen off creep
(5:42:14 AM) SupraDoom: queen AA is 9?
(5:42:25 AM) SupraDoom: launch seeker missile @ range 9
(5:42:28 AM) SupraDoom: it cant avoid it
(5:42:35 AM) SupraDoom: Example 2
(5:42:49 AM) SupraDoom: vikings are range 9
(5:42:51 AM) k0n1t: so in that example you want to hit a queen w/o getting hit yourself. gotcha
(5:43:03 AM) SupraDoom: would you rather eat a couple hits, or get in range 6 and possibly die to attempt casting
(5:43:22 AM) SupraDoom: so against vikings range 9 would probably work out better
(5:43:28 AM) SupraDoom: another example is
(5:43:34 AM) k0n1t: so you want to hit a viking w/o getting hit yourself
(5:43:46 AM) SupraDoom: you will still get hit, if its range 9
(5:43:50 AM) SupraDoom: since they are range 9
(5:43:56 AM) SupraDoom: but you wont take hits for 3 range, if it was six
(5:43:57 AM) k0n1t: so get hits 1
(5:44:12 AM) SupraDoom: so
(5:44:15 AM) SupraDoom: im just saying
(5:44:19 AM) SupraDoom: there are some situations
(5:44:20 AM) k0n1t: its not 3 hits cause a raven moves faster than the attack interval
(5:44:21 AM) SupraDoom: range 9 would be better
(5:44:28 AM) k0n1t: but i know where you're going
(5:44:30 AM) SupraDoom: I didnt say three hits
(5:44:33 AM) SupraDoom: I said
(5:44:35 AM) SupraDoom: 3 range of hits
(5:44:39 AM) SupraDoom: so however many hits
(5:44:44 AM) SupraDoom: they take approaching in the 3 range
(5:44:50 AM) SupraDoom: idk how many it would be
(5:45:07 AM) k0n1t: the queen scenario is a buff
(5:45:12 AM) k0n1t: but thats if the queen is off creep
(5:45:23 AM) SupraDoom: but my MAIN point is
(5:45:29 AM) k0n1t: but the viking? the viking till see it farther and move away
(5:45:37 AM) SupraDoom: yes but you wont lose the raven
(5:45:40 AM) SupraDoom: like
(5:45:47 AM) SupraDoom: lets say
(5:45:49 AM) SupraDoom: you have 1 raven
(5:45:51 AM) SupraDoom: 3 vikings
(5:46:05 AM) SupraDoom: you want to launch a seeker missile off and keep your raven alive
(5:46:11 AM) SupraDoom: if it was range 6
(5:46:14 AM) k0n1t: basically you want less RISK, more REWARDS for casting a spell. cause you just aren't a risky player
(5:46:19 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:46:24 AM) k0n1t: thats how i'm reading it
(5:46:31 AM) SupraDoom: I dont even ******* care about seeker missile
(5:46:38 AM) SupraDoom: I'm just saying range 9 would be better
(5:46:39 AM) SupraDoom: lol
(5:46:44 AM) SupraDoom: for options
(5:46:46 AM) k0n1t: be better cause its LESS risky!
(5:46:52 AM) SupraDoom: yea
(5:46:53 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:46:55 AM) SupraDoom: it doesnt matter
(5:46:56 AM) SupraDoom: i dont care
(5:47:01 AM) SupraDoom: but im saying in some situations
(5:47:01 AM) k0n1t: so less risk, more rewards!!
(5:47:03 AM) SupraDoom: it would be safer
(5:47:06 AM) k0n1t: thats what im getting
(5:47:10 AM) SupraDoom: who cares tho
(5:47:12 AM) SupraDoom: this isnt about me
(5:47:19 AM) SupraDoom: and seeker missile sucks
(5:47:19 AM) k0n1t: in general.
(5:47:25 AM) SupraDoom: and
(5:47:27 AM) k0n1t: you want seekers to have more rewards
(5:47:32 AM) k0n1t: than the risk ratio
(5:47:39 AM) SupraDoom: i wouldnt mine seeker missile just being a little better
(5:47:46 AM) SupraDoom: I'm sure you can see why
(5:47:54 AM) k0n1t: everyone wants everything to be better
(5:47:54 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:47:55 AM) k0n1t: for their race
(5:47:58 AM) SupraDoom: oh my god
(5:48:04 AM) SupraDoom: i dont give a ****
(5:48:06 AM) SupraDoom: if i didnt play terran
(5:48:16 AM) SupraDoom: if i played protoss
(5:48:22 AM) SupraDoom: i would want seeker missile to be better
(5:48:24 AM) SupraDoom: lol
(5:48:26 AM) SupraDoom: its terrible
(5:48:31 AM) SupraDoom: but here
(5:48:33 AM) SupraDoom: I will give you
(5:48:38 AM) SupraDoom: my #1 example
(5:48:46 AM) SupraDoom: of why I think it would be cooler
(5:48:49 AM) SupraDoom: @ range 9
(5:48:49 AM) k0n1t: nono, the examples you gave.
(5:48:54 AM) k0n1t: were to make the raven's live longer
(5:48:59 AM) SupraDoom: this one
(5:49:00 AM) k0n1t: seeker was just a by product
(5:49:03 AM) SupraDoom: is cooler tho
(5:49:06 AM) SupraDoom: Let's say
(5:49:08 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ seeker and seeker only
(5:49:10 AM) k0n1t: LISTEN
(5:49:14 AM) k0n1t: range 9 would be a nerf
(5:49:24 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ seeker and seeker only
(5:49:27 AM) k0n1t: range 9 would be a nerf
(5:49:38 AM) SupraDoom: yes but raven is a part of seeker missile








(5:49:43 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ the raven, range 9 would increase the raven's life
(5:49:48 AM) k0n1t: but REDUCE
(5:49:51 AM) k0n1t: the effectiveness
(5:49:53 AM) k0n1t: of a seeker
(5:49:56 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:49:59 AM) k0n1t: since its easily out ran
(5:50:02 AM) SupraDoom: because you can still laucnh at range six
(5:50:06 AM) k0n1t: what CAN"T outrun a seeker
(5:50:10 AM) k0n1t: besdies queens
(5:50:12 AM) SupraDoom: doesnt matter
(5:50:13 AM) k0n1t: off creep
(5:50:20 AM) SupraDoom: im saying with range 9 you can still launch at range six
(5:50:32 AM) k0n1t: exactly range 9 just makes the raven better
(5:50:36 AM) k0n1t: doesn't make the seeker better
(5:50:41 AM) k0n1t: and we're takling about seeker here
(5:50:43 AM) k0n1t: not the raven
(5:50:45 AM) SupraDoom: we are?
(5:50:48 AM) k0n1t: yeah
(5:50:53 AM) k0n1t: SupraDoom (3:48:04 AM): i would want seeker missile to be better
(5:50:59 AM) SupraDoom: I thought we were talking about ravens and seeker missiles
(5:51:07 AM) SupraDoom: but ravenings being better = seeker missile = better
(5:51:09 AM) k0n1t: no
(5:51:20 AM) k0n1t: range 9 = raven better, seeker worse
(5:51:28 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:51:37 AM) SupraDoom: range 9 = raven better, seeker missile has more options = better
(5:51:56 AM) k0n1t: no, range 9 = seeker more dodgeable, raven more liveable
(5:52:15 AM) SupraDoom: no, range 9 can be launched at range six, which means exactly the same!


----------



## BigFan

^^That's what you guys were discussing at 5:30 in the morning


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13376322*
> ^^That's what you guys were discussing at 5:30 in the morning


It was 3 am for him







.


----------



## yks

HOLY **** thats wall of text, i bet you only copy pasted the embarrassing stuff


----------



## Lazorbeam

I don't see why people complain about terran relying on bioball. Blizzard intended it to be the terran backbone. You can't expect every race to be the same. Besides, those units need 42523453 upgrades.

About the Warp Prism (it's not VOID prism guys!). The unit itself is pretty good, the problem is that you can't really cause much damage with the units you bring, unless it's late game and you've got HTs. You can drop in 4 zealots and warp in 4 stalkers, these units just don't have the mobility/dps to cause much damage. Slings on creep or stimmed bio responds far too quickly to make these drops worthwhile. This is why you rarely ever see them on the competitive scene.

Another thing people are overlooking in terms of balance is map selection. Remember when most maps had cliffs that terran could make great use of? I bet you guys miss those!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13374341*
> I think tanks are pretty bad vs Protoss in 95% of situations personally.


Agreed. The 5% seems to be from early-midgame rine/tank pushes but that's about it. Otherwise, colossi/chargelot/phoenix handily counter tanks. I think it would be fair to make tanks un-graviton-beamable when sieged... it's rooted into the ground after all, sort of, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13374803*
> How do you expand if you wall off ?


You don't wall off completely, you leave 1 space with a zealot in it. Alternatively you can wall off completely and bust a building out later on.

Fast-expanding used to be the go-to strat, but not anymore. Now protoss mass up sentries, and around 60 food they'll move out.

Edit: Also, you guys realize that more patch notes are coming and that you're all arguing for no reason...?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13376713*
> 
> Agreed. The 5% seems to be from early-midgame rine/tank pushes but that's about it. Otherwise, colossi/chargelot/phoenix handily counter tanks. I think it would be fair to make tanks un-graviton-beamable when sieged... it's rooted into the ground after all, sort of, right?
> 
> Edit: Also, you guys realize that more patch notes are coming and that you're all arguing for no reason...?


Why do you say more?

Also yes sieged tanks not being lifted would be nice.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13376751*
> Why do you say more?
> 
> Also yes sieged tanks not being lifted would be nice.


The PTR patch is young, more changes are coming no doubt. Also, I didn't notice this at first but they reverted the zealot/stalker build time changes and reduced the warpgate research nerf to 160.


----------



## rhed5

post game gg's to people who left w/o gging, are they bm?


----------



## poroboszcz

Not really since they BMd first by no gging. As White-Ra says: "No gg - no skill".
I don't see a reason why bother though unless you really think it was a good game and want to talk with them or something.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Hmmm... I see a FF nerf in the near future. The stars have aligned.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13377313*
> post game gg's to people who left w/o gging, are they bm?


i never GG during ladder. i do in customs tho.

if you message someone who lost, who didn't GG. that's pretty BM.


----------



## Alex132

I dont get why people say FF's are OP


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13377690*
> i never GG during ladder. i do in customs tho.
> 
> if you message someone who lost, who didn't GG. that's pretty BM.


I always gg in ladder, unless I'm seriously mad about the loss, which happens very rarely.

Yeah, I think it's BM to message after the game and say gg. If the guy didn't say gg before he left, then he's obviously pissed off, and messaging him to say gg is just kind of provoking them.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thealex132;13377721*
> I dont get why people say FF's are OP


FF is OP and probably the only reason protoss is competitive. In my opinion, FF is the most powerful spell in the game. It single-handedly negates a whole myriad of strategies, including most early game rushes.

This is what I've been saying for a while. I don't mind abilities being powerful. But when it takes away from the game's diversity, the spirit of competition is hurt. I'd much rather see FF being nerfed and other units buffed to compensate. I think the game would benefit greatly from it. FF should be destructible, and have its size increased. Right now, if you slightly misplace a FF, you might just lose the game. If you place it well, you win. That's lame. Of course, such changes are HUGE and would impact the game more than you can imagine. This is more of a fantasy wishlist, if you will.

I can post replays of FF winning games where there is little my opponent can do.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13377799*
> FF is OP and probably the only reason protoss is competitive. In my opinion, FF is the most powerful spell in the game. It single-handedly negates a whole myriad of strategies, including most early game rushes.
> 
> This is what I've been saying for a while. I don't mind abilities being powerful. But when it takes away from the game's diversity, the spirit of competition is hurt. I'd much rather see FF being nerfed and other units buffed to compensate. I think the game would benefit greatly from it. FF should be destructible, and have its size increased. Right now, if you slightly misplace a FF, you might just lose the game. If you place it well, you win. That's lame. Of course, such changes are HUGE and would impact the game more than you can imagine. This is more of a fantasy wishlist, if you will.
> 
> I can post replays of FF winning games where there is little my opponent can do.


Did you read what you posted? You said "(FF) the only reason protoss is competitive" and "negates a whole myriad of strategies, including most early game rushes".

So basically you want the game to be unbalanced. Gotcha.


----------



## Lazorbeam

FF is the only reason protoss is competitive, as it negates a whole myriad of strategies that you may face as a protoss player.

So I'm saying that FF is too good. And that it needs to be nerfed. I don't see how/where you get that I want the game to be imbalanced.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13378726*
> FF is the only reason protoss is competitive, as it negates a whole myriad of strategies that you may face as a protoss player.
> 
> So I'm saying that FF is too good. And that it needs to be nerfed. I don't see how/where you get that I want the game to be imbalanced.


I don't understand your reasoning. You say it negates strategies? How so and which ones exactly? If your referring to cheese proxy raxs, fast pools, that is a good thing in my opinion. The sentry is a weak unit early game, and it's really only powerful mid-late game imo. That is of course not taking into account EMPs.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah I lol'd too. "FFs are OP"! I can just hear tasteless in my mind going, "No they're not, EMP".


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13378830*
> I don't understand your reasoning. You say it negates strategies? How so and which ones exactly? If your referring to cheese proxy raxs, fast pools, that is a good thing in my opinion. The sentry is a weak unit early game, and it's really only powerful mid-late game imo. That is of course not taking into account EMPs.


No cheese. Of course it won't stop proxy rushes, the timing doesn't allow for it.

- Any ling harass.
- Baneling busts.
- Early roach.
- Early rauder.
- Early rine.
- Early zealot.
- Early stalker.
- Early anything.

You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that. FF is an *absolute necessity in all matchups except PvP.* It's also the reason colossi are so powerful - nothing can get in range besides air.

A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.

If you can't see how strong FF is, I don't know *** your protoss opponents have been doing.


----------



## Ruckol1

BigFan, how do I join that OCN division?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


No cheese. Of course it won't stop proxy rushes, the timing doesn't allow for it.

- Any ling harass.
- Baneling busts.
- Early roach.
- Early rauder.
- Early rine.
- Early zealot.
- Early stalker.
- Early anything.

You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that. FF is an *absolute necessity in all matchups except PvP.* It's also the reason colossi are so powerful - nothing can get in range besides air.

A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.

If you can't see how strong FF is, I don't know *** your protoss opponents have been doing.


I never said FF wasn't strong. The sentry unit itself is very weak when it is alone.

In your reference to the early roach I am on the fence. The expo roach followed by speed lings is very strong right now in PvZ. I've seen it twice on code S recently demolishing the P. The Protoss had perfect FF and still lost.

Marauders..if the terran does a 2 rax timing with one making marauders and the P goes for early expo with sentries he is ****ed. I actually don't even get an early sentry any more because you get one FF and when its done your screwed because it just tickles units instead of actually doing damage.

Mid game vs T or Z. Don't fight in tiny chokes, and the stable of countering colossus for T is the 9 range viking which can be made 2 at a time? If that doesn't work just go heavy marauders..seems to work because FF only lasts so long. Zerg gets burrowed roaches that can heal underground while moving past the FF.

Quote:



A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.


Mid game Zerg should be on 3 bases, and if you let Protoss get to your main ramp you aren't exactly a good Z. Good Zergs will see the attack coming from at least half the map distance. A perfect way to deal with P pushes is countering with a pack of lings to force P back.

Quote:



You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that.


You should be expanding before 50 food unless your going all in.

Your complaining that you can't end the game in less than 5 minutes is what your defense pretty much said. I really feel the sentry is not overpowered, and it is a very vulnerable unit. Once a Protoss's sentries are gone he/she might as well GG.


----------



## Hank Scorpio

IdrA with commentary > IdrA with dubstep...

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IdrA

lulz


----------



## KittensMewMew

I think what everyone is saying about sentries is that they basically shut down any early play, which isn't really fair- there's no opportunity to win up front right away, the protoss always forces a midgame. I know bunkers are free and can be repaired blah blah blah but they still cost 100 minerals up front, and mineral to repair them. FF denies early pressure for 15s each time, and you can keep casting them as long as you have energy. When you get a bunch of early sentries, you guarantee that you can't be attacked without forcing a scan or sacrificing a overlord to see the high ground, and you get to go into panic mode for that 15s and do whatever it is you need to do to hold off that pressure. FF also can cut armies in half- the hardest 4-gates I've had played against me involved FF half my forces back, or covering my bunker with FF to prevent repair.

Forcefield is part of the game, but now that players have figured out how to use it effectively, it shuts down any early options against P for both T and Z. 5-6 minute all ins are part of the game, and it should depend on skill not a crutch in order to beat them.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I think what everyone is saying about sentries is that they basically shut down any early play, which isn't really fair- there's no opportunity to win up front right away, the protoss always forces a midgame. I know bunkers are free and can be repaired blah blah blah but they still cost 100 minerals up front, and mineral to repair them. FF denies early pressure for 15s each time, and you can keep casting them as long as you have energy. When you get a bunch of early sentries, you guarantee that you can't be attacked without forcing a scan or sacrificing a overlord to see the high ground, and you get to go into panic mode for that 15s and do whatever it is you need to do to hold off that pressure. FF also can cut armies in half- the hardest 4-gates I've had played against me involved FF half my forces back, or covering my bunker with FF to prevent repair.

Forcefield is part of the game, but now that players have figured out how to use it effectively, it shuts down any early options against P for both T and Z. 5-6 minute all ins are part of the game, and it should depend on skill not a crutch in order to beat them.


Starcraft is about macro. 5-6 minute all ins are for noobs.


----------



## Allenssmart

forcefields completely remove the enemies ability to micro. forcefields prevent all ground units from coming in range with the 40 stalkers, let alone the 5 op laz0r beam roasters. Forcefields prevent the enemy from attacking at all, while you can still attack with 100% dps. However, the enemies dps is now ZERO.

So tell me, what's imbalanced with being ability to attack with your entire army while the enemy army cannot attack OR retreat? idk bro, tell me


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Starcraft is about macro. 5-6 minute all ins are for noobs.


Showing up at your opponents base with an exactly maxed out army for that point in time is bad? I don't think so.

Pushing on colossi range is noob. Pushing once stim finishes is noob. Pushing when your baneling nest finishes is noob. But how you get there determines whether you're silver or master- did you get supply blocked? Was your build low on gas? Did you have too many minerals the entire time? Did you constantly build workers? Were your buildings timed so that you could start producing out of them immediately?

It doesn't matter if your build doesn't have an easy exit strategy if it can consistently damage your opponent's economy enough to put you ahead. There is nothing wrong with a timing attack. A timing attack is just an attempt to execute flawless macro to give you the stronger army for one point in time.


----------



## Allenssmart

Guys New Idea for Thors!!!

It's called Plant Flowers. It consumes all of the Thor's energy and converts it into daisies that get planted in the ground around the thor. The daisies look pretty for 5 seconds then disappear.

This would be a very useful ability vs. toss in 1.3.3, but probably won't see much use in tvt or tvz. Might be imba?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

This is such a joke. It's as if you guys have never heard of burrow move, thor rush, banshees. As for the rest of the strat on that list, it's only dependent if the rusher knows how to play or not. How many forcefields do you think the P will have? And even if you think you can't break it, don't you know you can get into a huge economic lead while the P is turtling in the early to mid game?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ruckol1*


bigfan, how do i join that ocn division?


+1


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


BigFan, how do I join that OCN division?


Im not bigfan, sorry, but if you join the overclock.net chat room in game it puts you in the division im pretty sure.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Showing up at your opponents base with an exactly maxed out army for that point in time is bad? I don't think so.

Pushing on colossi range is noob. Pushing once stim finishes is noob. Pushing when your baneling nest finishes is noob. But how you get there determines whether you're silver or master- did you get supply blocked? Was your build low on gas? Did you have too many minerals the entire time? Did you constantly build workers? Were your buildings timed so that you could start producing out of them immediately?

It doesn't matter if your build doesn't have an easy exit strategy if it can consistently damage your opponent's economy enough to put you ahead. There is nothing wrong with a timing attack. A timing attack is just an attempt to execute flawless macro to give you the stronger army for one point in time.


The point Cory was trying to make is that the longer the game goes, generally, the better player should win.

Because when you boil starcraft down, the player who makes LESS mistakes normally is the victor.

and in a short 5-6 minute all-in game, players are less likely to make mistakes since there is less to do and the likelihood of forgetting stuff is less.

so a 5-6 minute all in isn't really a measurement of skill, but rather a blind build "X" race does in hopes that it'll work. no scouting, no reacting, no reading your opponent necessary.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


+1


Go: http://sc2ranks.com/c/characters/1765

and paste ur b.net url


----------



## Ruckol1

Cool thanks I'm in!


----------



## poroboszcz

TIL: you can lower your keyboard's repeat delay to improve your macro/micro efficiency. Particularly useful for zerg and casting forcefields.

I can't count how many times I lost a battle because I was trying to place a forcefield in between the key press and the time the repeat actually starts and selecting enemy unit instead.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Allenssmart

yo doomdash what do u think of the thor nerf. i really think it is completely unjustified and ******ed. david kim must have been watching that thorzain game while he was high, then he was like, OMG THOR OP OP OP NERF NERF


----------



## DoomDash

It's terrible man. I want 250mm cannons removed at this point.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's terrible man. I want 250mm cannons removed at this point.


how come JUST when terrans start experimenting with new meta game of mech in tvp, blizzard decides to nerf it into the ground?

so blizzard is basically saying "you're terran, u must mass tier 1 units. that's all you do"

so terran t3: battlecruiser, thor, banshee, raven. which one can't be feedbacked? OH WAIT


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I don't think anyone understands the nerf at this point. It may have been too powerful but there was really no such evidence to support this at the highest level.

Most random change so far really. I mean they made it cool down because the Thor was bad in TvP, and cannons were never used. Cooldown, people used cannons occasionally, but still rarely got it.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I don't think anyone understands the nerf at this point. It may have been too powerful but there was really no such evidence to support this at the highest level.

Most random change so far really. I mean they made it cool down because the Thor was bad in TvP, and cannons were never used. Cooldown, people used cannons occasionally, but still rarely got it.


im switching to toss. sry bro









gl gl


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


im switching to toss. sry bro









gl gl


Yeah probably a really good time to do so. I was so shocked seeing buffs for them considering all the OP discussion.

I don't play Terran for the power though, I play them because I think they are cool. Terran since beta when they were considered crap.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah probably a really good time to do so. I was so shocked seeing buffs for them considering all the OP discussion.

I don't play Terran for the power though, I play them because I think they are cool. Terran since beta when they were considered crap.


finally got on my smurf account. i went on liquipedia and printed out the 4 gate build order and i stared at it. currently on a 4 win streak in plat. damn this is easy. i wonder what happens if I go into late game.

unowat, next game i'ma 1 gate sentry expand and go colossi stalker sentry. want to test out my blink + ff micro.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












tehe, kinda satisfying that a pro toss didn't win though right?









so where's this list of the new updates?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


tehe, kinda satisfying that a pro toss didn't win though right?









so where's this list of the new updates?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


----------



## Allenssmart

anyone know the status of eyefinity with starcraft 2?

does it work?

do i only get 1 screen? right now i'm only getting around 70 fps so if i get to screens my sc2 fps will dip to 35 cause apparently sc2 still doesn't do well with multi gpus setups right?

also, can i have starcraft 2 on my left screen and like msn/work on another? thanks brosephasaurus


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


BigFan, how do I join that OCN division?


Sorry, just read this now. Given, you don't need my help for that anymore









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












lol, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Only difference is, he's a pro gamer and no one here is, so, his opinion holds a lot more weight









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


how come JUST when terrans start experimenting with new meta game of mech in tvp, blizzard decides to nerf it into the ground?

so blizzard is basically saying "you're terran, u must mass tier 1 units. that's all you do"

so terran t3: battlecruiser, thor, banshee, raven. which one can't be feedbacked? OH WAIT


Banshees need energy to cloak, ravens like hts or infestors need it as well for their abilities since they are casters. The idea of the cannons for the thor was going up against other units that hard counter it(immortals) but it can also be used against any unit. Given, you'll probably want to use it against tougher units(ultras, thors, colossi) than on something like a marine. 
As for battlecrusiers, they haven't changed since BW where you can still feedback them back them using dark archons where now its a ht.

As for the FF debate, personally, I think early game, its really powerful for holding off most harass but gets stronger when you have 200/200 army faceoffs


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13385970*
> lol, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Only difference is, he's a pro gamer and no one here is, so, his opinion holds a lot more weight


Yes but he is being a giant hypocrite saying Zerg cannot win anything, and then winning a major tournament very convincingly ( with lots of ZvP I might add ). That's the funny part.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13386135*
> Yes but he is being a giant hypocrite saying Zerg cannot win anything, and then winning a major tournament very convincingly ( with lots of ZvP I might add ). That's the funny part.


Yeah. Nothing worse than a crybaby whining over imba, when he is dominating the matchup he claims is imba; in a huge tournament i might add.


----------



## DoomDash

lol Artosis is not even close to pro level, I guess that explains why I beat him







.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13386623*
> lol Artosis is not even close to pro level, I guess that explains why I beat him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I could probably beat him. His multitasking was horrible, and he got nuked.
fenix had more scvs than he had supply. he saw the drop load up but he failed. his reaction time is bad. unit comp is bad. fenix was trolling


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13386135*
> Yes but he is being a giant hypocrite saying Zerg cannot win anything, and then winning a major tournament very convincingly ( with lots of ZvP I might add ). That's the funny part.


I never said he isn't a hypocrite sometimes, but, he does work hard at trying to overcome whatever he believes is imba. He even went ahead and said that infestors might be OP against P when they were buffed, should give him credit where its due









Edit: Doom, log on, let's get a game going


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13386918*
> I never said he isn't a hypocrite sometimes, but, he does work hard at trying to overcome whatever he believes is imba. He even went ahead and said that infestors might be OP against P when they were buffed, should give him credit where its due


What credit am I denying him? I'm just calling him out on his bull.

Also, please, he gives up and has the worst defeatist attitude ever. They pretty much talked about his mental attitude being making him lose MANY MANY games that he could have won just because he believed it was bogus. They pretty much had an intervention with him on State of the Game a few times.

I like idrA, but the dude will never be happy.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13386972*
> What credit am I denying him? I'm just calling him out on his bull.
> 
> Also, please, he gives up and has the worst defeatist attitude ever. They pretty much talked about his mental attitude being making him lose MANY MANY games that he could have won just because he believed it was bogus. They pretty much had an intervention with him on State of the Game a few times.
> 
> I like idrA, but the dude will never be happy.


I think its called losing faith in your abilities and being unsatisfied with your game, nothing wrong with that. He's just really rough on himself when he loses and BMs


----------



## DoomDash

http://onemoregame.blip.tv/file/5101768/

Inside the Game Episode 1.

Seems like SoTG, except all 3 races are represented ( THANK GOD ).


----------



## yks

I did not like ITG from its first episode though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13388612*
> I did not like ITG from its first episode though.


Yeah it's no SotG.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What kind of keyboard is Inca using right now? It looks like a topre realforce.


----------



## yks

he's using a black dt 35


----------



## DoomDash

Been slacking on ladder, time to Terran it up tomorrow.


----------



## Eskanasi

I am nearly finished watching/reading everything linked in the op. But good god I've been sitting here for bout 5 hours or more, I swear.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Good, cus you need the rest today. Sleep during the night/morning for once.


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13389073*
> Good, cus you need the rest today. Sleep during the night/morning for once.


It's half past 8 at night where I am. lol.


----------



## yks

NesTea, breaking the ladder!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wow did you guys just see what anypro's phoenix just did?


----------



## CravinR1

Where do you guys watch live casts of games?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13389278*
> Where do you guys watch live casts of games?


gomtv.net I just use my fb account and click the standard quality live free stream. You need their gom player but its legit.


----------



## DoomDash

If Nestea wins GSL I hope idra gets teased forever.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13389450*
> If Nestea wins GSL I hope idra gets teased forever.


So... you're hoping nothing will change?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


So... you're hoping nothing will change?










Idra has a very valid point. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of game fundamentals. Even if all races are at 50% win ratio, it's very wrong that some zerg players can lose to inferior terran/protoss players simply because scouting is impossible.

Given the impossible scouting, this also means zerg players are forced into playing more generic, defensive games, in this case we're back to "closing up" and invalidating some strategies. This does little to help game diversity/fun.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13390697*
> Idra has a very valid point. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of game fundamentals. Even if all races are at 50% win ratio, it's very wrong that some zerg players can lose to inferior terran/protoss players simply because scouting is impossible.
> 
> Given the impossible scouting, this also means zerg players are forced into playing more generic, defensive games, in this case we're back to "closing up" and invalidating some strategies. This does little to help game diversity/fun.


Yeah I get that, but Idra has been whining since the dawn of SC1. 10 years ago all he did was whine about Terran. For SC2, all he's going to do is whine about Zerg. That will never change. He can get every buff he asks for and he'll just find something else to ***** and moan about.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


anyone know the status of eyefinity with starcraft 2?

does it work?

do i only get 1 screen? right now i'm only getting around 70 fps so if i get to screens my sc2 fps will dip to 35 cause apparently sc2 still doesn't do well with multi gpus setups right?

also, can i have starcraft 2 on my left screen and like msn/work on another? thanks brosephasaurus


anyone?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


anyone?


Dunno about eyefinity but you can have SC2 on one monitor and whatever you want on the other one, no problems. Just set the game to windowed-fullscreen.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Idra has a very valid point. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of game fundamentals. Even if all races are at 50% win ratio, it's very wrong that some zerg players can lose to inferior terran/protoss players simply because scouting is impossible.

Given the impossible scouting, this also means zerg players are forced into playing more generic, defensive games, in this case we're back to "closing up" and invalidating some strategies. This does little to help game diversity/fun.


How is scouting impossible for zerg? I find it easier to know what my opponent is doing at any given time playing as zerg than as the other races. You have zerglings which are fastest and cheapest units to sacrifice, overlords, overseers, creep and burrow to hide zerglings at various places. It's almost like playing with a maphack past mid-game.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


How is scouting impossible for zerg? I find it easier to know what my opponent is doing at any given time playing as zerg than as the other races. You have zerglings which are fastest and cheapest units to sacrifice, overlords, overseers, creep and burrow to hide zerglings at various places. It's almost like playing with a maphack past mid-game.


In his defense, "mid-game" is way too late.

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


How is scouting impossible for zerg? I find it easier to know what my opponent is doing at any given time playing as zerg than as the other races. You have zerglings which are fastest and cheapest units to sacrifice, overlords, overseers, creep and burrow to hide zerglings at various places. It's almost like playing with a maphack past mid-game.


I guess you haven't read what Idra said. He said that in ZvT, your overlords can't reach the opponent's base before he gets marines. So early scouting is nearly impossible. I'm fine with races being different, but when games come down to luck, something needs to be done.

Maybe increase overlord base speed a bit.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I guess you haven't read what Idra said. He said that in ZvT, your overlords can't reach the opponent's base before he gets marines. So early scouting is nearly impossible. I'm fine with races being different, but when games come down to luck, something needs to be done.

Maybe increase overlord base speed a bit.


Idra is complaining that he can't scout cause lings die to marines and overlords die to marines. So he's forced to play a build that can defend against anything just to come out even in the early game.

But that's Idra, who complains about everything. He could have a 100% win-rate and still complain.

You don't see Protoss players complaining about going Observers just for scouting. Observers which, by the way, locks a tech path for the beginning stages of the game.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Idra is complaining that he can't scout cause lings die to marines and overlords die to marines. So he's forced to play a build that can defend against anything just to come out even in the early game.

But that's Idra, who complains about everything. He could have a 100% win-rate and still complain.

You don't see Protoss players complaining about going Observers just for scouting. Observers which, by the way, locks a tech path for the beginning stages of the game.


We don't complain, because Hallucination solves all of those problems. If you suspect something, Hallucination is ready before any cheese.

Forget the fact that Idra complains. He brought up a point, and the point is valid.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


We don't complain, because Hallucination solves all of those problems. If you suspect something, Hallucination is ready before any cheese can.

Forget the fact that Idra complains. He brought up a point, and the point is valid.


I have to disagree. Hallucination is for mid to late game so when you're about to lose you can just hallucinate some voidrays in and get you opponent to gg out of frustration.

But don't toss have to prioritize warpgate research almost always? What good is being able to scout the cheese coming your way if you don't have enough units to deal with it, and can't reinforce them fast? Just wondering, because 99% of games I see, warpgate is research first, and hallu usually not at all.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


I have to disagree. Hallucination is for mid to late game so when you're about to lose you can just hallucinate some voidrays in and get you opponent to gg out of frustration.

But don't toss have to prioritize warpgate research almost always? What good is being able to scout the cheese coming your way if you don't have enough units to deal with it, and can't reinforce them fast? Just wondering, because 99% of games I see, warpgate is research first, and hallu usually not at all.


You are correct, hallucination is always researched second. It has a low research time.

Have you been watching pro replays at all? Hallucination is used VERY frequently for early-game scouting.

You Hallucinate VRs while you're losing to get the opponent to GG? What kind of idiot would fall for this? Why not use that energy to make FFs or VRs/Archons to TANK damage in the actual fight instead?


----------



## Alex132

Halu could be useful, it just really is only good for scouting/gaining vision. P is definitely one of the slowest races to get going IMO


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


We don't complain, because Hallucination solves all of those problems. If you suspect something, Hallucination is ready before any cheese.

Forget the fact that Idra complains. He brought up a point, and the point is valid.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


You are correct, hallucination is always researched second. It has a low research time.

Have you been watching pro replays at all? Hallucination is used VERY frequently for early-game scouting.

You Hallucinate VRs while you're losing to get the opponent to GG? *What kind of idiot would fall for this?* Why not use that energy to make FFs or VRs/Archons to TANK damage in the actual fight instead?


Idra fell for it and GG'd out of a game when he saw 10 Hullu'd VR's, losing an MLG match.

Hallucination does not solve all the problems, but it helps. And Hallucination is not ready before any cheese.

But don't you see the point here? Idra is complaining that he can't scout with his *lings* or *Overlord* in the *early game*.

Again, he just wants to use his units. Can Protoss use just their tier 1 units? No, they can't either. We grab observers (that locks a tech path) or we research Hullu (which is expensive as ****). Protoss players don't complain that they have to do extra things to scout. Why is Idra allowed? When he's just trying to scout with a LING or an OVERLORD (in the early game). The answer is: he can't, it's just nonsensical *****ing, so his point is invalid.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*   You are correct, hallucination is always researched second. It has a low research time.

Have you been watching pro replays at all? Hallucination is used VERY frequently for early-game scouting.

You Hallucinate VRs while you're losing to get the opponent to GG? *What kind of idiot would fall for this? *Why not use that energy to make FFs or VRs/Archons to TANK damage in the actual fight instead?  
   
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ccy9kljvI


----------



## Alex132

IdrA is known for his rage-quits though XD


----------



## Lazorbeam

I realize now that you were just kidding about the VR strat and referencing to this game. I'm sure we can agree that it's not a strategy you're going to see succeed very often. Nonetheless, hallucinations can definitely be used to tank damage as we discussed prior.

Hallucination beats cloaked banshee, muta, and other similar builds you're likely to encounter at a top level of play.

Back to the point, sure protoss can't use t1 units to scout (besides sentries), but defending cheese is much easier given that you generally have stalkers at your disposal. Zerg is forced into lateral play; excessive queens until scouting can be done in T2.

It's also worthy to note that Spanishiwa agreed with Idra's points. These guys understand the game far better than anyone does, so their opinion should definitely be taken into consideration.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


I realize now that you were just kidding about the VR strat and referencing to this game. I'm sure we can agree that it's not a strategy you're going to see succeed very often. Nonetheless, hallucinations can definitely be used to tank damage as we discussed prior.

Hallucination beats cloaked banshee, muta, and other similar builds you're likely to encounter at a top level of play.

Back to the point, sure protoss can't use t1 units to scout (besides sentries), but defending cheese is much easier given that you generally have stalkers at your disposal. Zerg is forced into lateral play; excessive queens until scouting can be done in T2.

It's also worthy to note that Spanishiwa agreed with Idra's points. These guys understand the game far better than anyone does, so their opinion should definitely be taken into consideration.


I agree that as Pros, their view of the game's balance outweigh any of ours. But Idra is just one Pro, amongst the hundreds, who seems to try to create issues where there aren't any, or if there are issues, tries to blow them out of proportion.

Because if he was entirely correct, all Pros would agree; Blizzard would agree and try to fix said issue.

People just have a gigantic bandwagon syndrome and blame the current flavor of the month. It's like what Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black: A person is smart; People are dumb.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Idra is complaining that he can't scout cause lings die to marines and overlords die to marines. So he's forced to play a build that can defend against anything just to come out even in the early game.

But that's Idra, who complains about everything. He could have a 100% win-rate and still complain.

You don't see Protoss players complaining about going Observers just for scouting. Observers which, by the way, locks a tech path for the beginning stages of the game.



Did you listen to what Idra said? He said there is no conceivable zerg build that can defend against every early attack. He is exactly right about that. If zerg can't defend against everything then zerg needs scouting information to narrow the possibilities. But zerg can't get a sloverlord past the patrolling marines. So zerg has to guess and trust to luck. That's poor game design. This is supposed to be a game of skill, not luck.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I agree that as Pros, their view of the game's balance outweigh any of ours. But Idra is just one Pro, amongst the hundreds, who seems to try to create issues where there aren't any, or if there are issues, tries to blow them out of proportion.

Because if he was entirely correct, all Pros would agree; Blizzard would agree and try to fix said issue.

People just have a gigantic bandwagon syndrome and blame the current flavor of the month. It's like what Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black: A person is smart; People are dumb.


Actually Idra has said the pro zergs he's talked to are also annoyed with the game balance. How could they not be? Maybe these guys are just not as confrontational as Idra and are content to let him be the villian who does the dirty work of complaining about stuff that needs to be complained about. Not everybody has the stomach to get into a full-blown *****fest with other pro gamers. Idra does.


----------



## yks

Yeah? Guess what Lucas, there's NO BUILD IN THE WORLD that can defend against every early attack for ANY race.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

As a novice Zerg player, I have to agree that I feel at a major disadvantage in the early game. It's very easy for Terran or Protoss to cheese me with bunkers or cannons or early Marines. I'll just be doing a standard 14 pool and BAM two marines in my base while my zerglings are still eggs, and suddenly I've lost three workers or have to pull them off mining. I almost have to make a 10 pool my standard or I get wiped out inside of five minutes.

In comparison, Zerg has _no_ cheese, except maybe the 6 pool, and that never works because T and P always wall. Zerg can only cheese other Zerg, with 6 pool plus two spine crawlers, and that's very risky.

I still like Zerg because they're great for macro, but they really need something more in the early game. Maybe let overlords spawn creep without a lair so it's easier to defend with spine crawlers, or buff un-upgraded zerglings a little so two zerglings = one marine, instead of three zerglings = one marine.


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Wow did you guys just see what anypro's phoenix just did?


That was mind blowing. Phoenix play is so awesome.


----------



## KittensMewMew

No race has a free scout. It's going to cost you around 200 minerals and time in order to scout, regardless of race.

Scan is 270 minerals and misses what you want to see most of the time. Hallucination is 100min/100gas and 100 energy (expensive), but is probably the strongest scout, how many times have you seen a hallucinated phoenix get shot down in a pro game? Very rarely. 2 (200 minerals) Overlords floating in at the same time while lings poke at the ramp (50 minerals if you lose 2) will usually give you a good indication of what your opponent is doing. These can all be done around the 6 minute mark, when your opponent is settling in to what build he's doing, or he's about to cheese you. Seems fair to me.

I think Idra likes to whine and complain and then win tournaments because it makes him feel special. He plays the hardest race you know, so if he wins it's obvious that he's just better than everyone else in the world.


----------



## DoomDash

I would say the fact that Zerg has poor scouting and still does as well as it does shows how the races mechanics / units are sick good to make up for lack of scouting.

Like I could hide some crazy all-in with all my millions of tech paths and STILL lose to a Zerg because Zerg will generally be able to hold it off. I've hid BC tech before many times and Zerg was able to hold it off no problem.

So bad scouting for Zerg is irrelevant because the race is still good enough to deal with it w/ out it. Maybe if they could scout the match up like TvZ would look more like 35-65% in favor of Zerg. Right now its like almost even, slight Terran favored at pro-level, now imagine if Zergs didn't lose to these hidden tech / all ins and all of a sudden the game is broken in Zergs favor. I'm worried this advantage of hidden tech / all ins is masking in imbalance in the other direction.

Ladder too which has been around 50% forever.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


As a novice Zerg player, I have to agree that I feel at a major disadvantage in the early game. It's very easy for Terran or Protoss to cheese me with bunkers or cannons or early Marines. I'll just be doing a standard 14 pool and BAM two marines in my base while my zerglings are still eggs, and suddenly I've lost three workers or have to pull them off mining. I almost have to make a 10 pool my standard or I get wiped out inside of five minutes.

In comparison, Zerg has _no_ cheese, except maybe the 6 pool, and that never works because T and P always wall. Zerg can only cheese other Zerg, with 6 pool plus two spine crawlers, and that's very risky.

I still like Zerg because they're great for macro, but they really need something more in the early game. Maybe let overlords spawn creep without a lair so it's easier to defend with spine crawlers, or buff un-upgraded zerglings a little so two zerglings = one marine, instead of three zerglings = one marine.


Wow I should have done the deal you have in your sig. Anyways, I am by no means a very high-level player but I am a high plat-diamond so I'd be more than wiling to help you thanks to all the PSU advice you've given me.


----------



## rhed5

hot damn, 10 months since the release and we still talk about balance.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


hot damn, 10 months since the release and we still talk about balance.


What? You vastly underestimate the complexity of SC. Balance changes are still being made to the original game and it's 15 years old.

10 months? Lol...

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I would say the fact that Zerg has poor scouting and still does as well as it does shows how the races mechanics / units are sick good to make up for lack of scouting.

Like I could hide some crazy all-in with all my millions of tech paths and STILL lose to a Zerg because Zerg will generally be able to hold it off. I've hid BC tech before many times and Zerg was able to hold it off no problem.

So bad scouting for Zerg is irrelevant because the race is still good enough to deal with it w/ out it. Maybe if they could scout the match up like TvZ would look more like 35-65% in favor of Zerg. Right now its like almost even, slight Terran favored at pro-level, now imagine if Zergs didn't lose to these hidden tech / all ins and all of a sudden the game is broken in Zergs favor. I'm worried this advantage of hidden tech / all ins is masking in imbalance in the other direction.

Ladder too which has been around 50% forever.


Yep, pretty sure zerg would stomp all over everyone if they had reliable early game scouting. Should a zerg scouting "fix" go live, unit balance would have to be looked at. In the end the luck factor is eliminated and the fundamental issue is solved.


----------



## DoomDash

If 1.3.3 goes through as it is now, here are my ideas:

TvT - Mostly the same

TvZ - Marine Tank Medivac Ghost

TvP- Marine Tank 1-2 Thor's Ghost maybe viking / medivac ( Thor's just to prevent Phoenix ).


----------



## l337sft

As protoss i constantly lose to an all in early pool ling rush while playing against zerg on maps with a wide ramp as at that early stage in the game, i do not have enough buildings to block off the entire ramp, with smaller ramps i hold it just about every time, but i have no idea what to do, the zerglings are in my base right when my zealot finishes. The timing on getting my first zealot out is pretty on point, as it should be that early in the game. Im just tired of losing to that early push. It really makes me angry.

Should i scout before my first pylon? and if i spot the early pool just throw down another gateway? Or should i just try to place buildings next to my nexus and wall off at my mineral line?

What do you guys do against an early pool as protoss on maps with ride ramps?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Battle.net*

Itâ€™s a busy day for Battle.net!
Due to high volume of traffic, weâ€™ve taken our World of Warcraft and Starcraft II Community sites offline


yesterday steam, now this... nooooo what else can I do on the interwebz...


----------



## Horsemama1956

Has anyone every played some idiot in Silver that has like 2200 wins? He stream apparently. What does he just keep himself in Silver?


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


Has anyone every played some idiot in Silver that has like 2200 wins? He stream apparently. What does he just keep himself in Silver?


I havent played him, but i have watched his stream. And yea, he will purposely lose games to go down on the ladder.. doesnt really make sense.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Yeah he kept talking too, late on overlord and pool which screwed me over. He was silver though, so I assumed it wouldn't matter. He had a damn quick 4 gate. Guess he just likes crushing people on his stream with 4 gates.

You would think Blizzard would pick up on stuff like that.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ROFL I can't believe there's someone like that and actually streams his games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13395461*
> As protoss i constantly lose to an all in early pool ling rush while playing against zerg on maps with a wide ramp as at that early stage in the game, i do not have enough buildings to block off the entire ramp, with smaller ramps i hold it just about every time, but i have no idea what to do, the zerglings are in my base right when my zealot finishes. The timing on getting my first zealot out is pretty on point, as it should be that early in the game. Im just tired of losing to that early push. It really makes me angry.
> 
> Should i scout before my first pylon? and if i spot the early pool just throw down another gateway? Or should i just try to place buildings next to my nexus and wall off at my mineral line?
> 
> What do you guys do against an early pool as protoss on maps with ride ramps?


Scout early and or seal off choke.


----------



## Blooregard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13395461*
> As protoss i constantly lose to an all in early pool ling rush while playing against zerg on maps with a wide ramp as at that early stage in the game, i do not have enough buildings to block off the entire ramp, with smaller ramps i hold it just about every time, but i have no idea what to do, the zerglings are in my base right when my zealot finishes. The timing on getting my first zealot out is pretty on point, as it should be that early in the game. Im just tired of losing to that early push. It really makes me angry.
> 
> Should i scout before my first pylon? and if i spot the early pool just throw down another gateway? Or should i just try to place buildings next to my nexus and wall off at my mineral line?
> 
> What do you guys do against an early pool as protoss on maps with ride ramps?


Um, I scout after my 9 pylon, though its still hard cause if they blind 6-7 pool. They usually take the first overlord to scout 1 base, a fast drone scout to another and basically they know where u are based on the assumption if your not at the 2 u scouted u have to be third spawn point. As soon as you scout such early aggression pull probes to help wall and to kill the lings. Its pretty hard to stop regardless so just try your best.


----------



## CravinR1

I go 9 pylon 10 or 11 gateway then hurry up to get a zealot by chrono boosting vs zerg

....... though generally if I get that far they go roaches and eat me


----------



## DoomDash

http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216


----------



## Allenssmart

omg switched to toss won 11 games in a row 4 gating now i'm diamond. HAHAA WHY WAS I PLAYING TERRAN?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hey, any Bronze/Silver level players want to play with me and my friend tonight? We want to play some 2v2 and FFA. Just send me a PM, I'll give you my Skype and SC2 name.


----------



## MrHackysack

I was playing TvZ today (as Terran) and something happened I have never seen before.

It was late game and I was working off of 4 command centers to keep up with my Zerg opponent. As i moved my force across the map on the the creep towards the Z main base I experienced a new harass: 2 infestors unborrowed at each of my bases and FG'd my SCV's twice, ALL SCV'S DEAD in what felt like 8 seconds. (Gold league btw :\)

I didn't have time to watch the replay but I will later.
Have any of you experienced this?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrHackysack;13398892*
> I was playing TvZ today (as Terran) and something happened I have never seen before.
> 
> It was late game and I was working off of 4 command centers to keep up with my Zerg opponent. As i moved my force across the map on the the creep towards the Z main base I experienced a new harass: 2 infestors unborrowed at each of my bases and FG'd my SCV's twice, ALL SCV'S DEAD in what felt like 8 seconds. (Gold league btw :\)
> 
> I didn't have time to watch the replay but I will later.
> Have any of you experienced this?


Not experienced but read about. There is no warning either, but, its a legit strat. Best defense is to get a turret up near the entrance and keep some units incase he tries to slip some infestors by


----------



## MrHackysack

Yea, it's definitely not cheesing or anything. I wanted to slap myself for not having detection.

Oh, and btw, I won the game








The infestors were too late to the party, I had foiled the zergs heavy broodlord with mass vikings. He never scouted me. (until the infestors of course)


----------



## BigFan

Nice^^ Scouting is a big part of this game and can determine whether you win or lose it








Replay uploaded by demand: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173292-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le









TvsP on ST that I just played: 
To carrier or to not carrier? That is the question XD

Edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219888
Guaranteed to give you a good laugh


----------



## DoomDash

idra to cast week 5 NASL:

http://www.nasl.tv/News/Article/2011...st-nasl-week-5

I thought this would be a pretty cool Thor change. Only problem is we might see it used in a high level game and Protoss may have it removed.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...3688355?page=1


----------



## PixelFreakz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrHackysack*


I was playing TvZ today (as Terran) and something happened I have never seen before.

It was late game and I was working off of 4 command centers to keep up with my Zerg opponent. As i moved my force across the map on the the creep towards the Z main base I experienced a new harass: 2 infestors unborrowed at each of my bases and FG'd my SCV's twice, ALL SCV'S DEAD in what felt like 8 seconds. (Gold league btw :\\)

I didn't have time to watch the replay but I will later. 
Have any of you experienced this?


Dahahaha... lol I do this all the time in 4v4. Really sucks if done against you though... I usually dont try if terran is has turret with PFortress Works for those damn dts also.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL Code A finals:

WOW Bomber is a beast.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

I think Idra's objection is basically that a significant percentage of zerg games are auto-losses because the current game design dictates that a zerg player has to take guesses about his opponent's opening, and a bad guess is fatal. It wouldn't be a big deal if the game design also required terran and protoss to take some auto-losses, but that's not the case.


----------



## DoomDash

I signed up for IGN Proleague season 2 qualifiers.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218996

Must be a Master / GM and in NA.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I signed up for IGN Proleague season 2 qualifiers.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218996

Must be a Master / GM and in NA.


Sweet Doom GL, when are the signups closing?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


What? You vastly underestimate the complexity of SC. Balance changes are still being made to the original game and it's 15 years old.

10 months? Lol...

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


Thought I'll comment on this, last major patch was on April 2001, so, technically speaking that allowed the game to settle. Any further changes were somewhat minor in comparion









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I signed up for IGN Proleague season 2 qualifiers.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218996

Must be a Master / GM and in NA.


cool, would like to see you go all the way









This should help: http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/view/22950


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thought I'll comment on this, last major patch was on April 2001, so, technically speaking that allowed the...


Who said anything about major patches? I said balance changes. Balance changes have been made very recently. The game was not done being updated in 2001. Go say that at a global SC tourney a year ago before SC2 was released and you'd get one hell of an earful.

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I signed up for IGN Proleague season 2 qualifiers.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218996

Must be a Master / GM and in NA.


Just signed up for the lols. I'll be happy if I win 5 games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Just signed up for the lols. I'll be happy if I win 5 games.


lol, you should be able to do better than that


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I signed up for IGN Proleague season 2 qualifiers.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=218996

Must be a Master / GM and in NA.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Just signed up for the lols. I'll be happy if I win 5 games.


GL. I think you're both better than Artosis.


----------



## HarrisLam

haven't posted in here for a long time, but ive actually been reading what you guys talk about

just played 2 games today, 4v4 and 3v3, the 3v3 was just....

and im not talking about the game itself, it was normal, but the fact that i played like 5 3v3 games this season, was silver after placement, lost N games in a row and have 0 points in silver, i won 1 game tonight and i got promoted to gold

WOW RLY? thanks system thats a lot of help

(in case you guys couldnt realize, i didnt want the promotion, can probably tell from my losing streak eh?)


----------



## BigFan

^^MMR doesn't change from season 1, so, if you were doing well enough, then losing a couple of games then winning one will promote you usually









Hilarious thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214795&currentpage=17
Talk about iNcontroL trolling XD

Edit: Maybe its just me, but, TvsT match ups can be really fun but also pretty long and difficult depending on your opponent:

Thought those on here who loved BW and how terran was played then would enjoy this. It still amazes me how well banshees are at breaking siege tank lines


----------



## poroboszcz

http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12876

Pretty good read.


----------



## Rpg2

Vdek is a mod on Destiny's stream? What....


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Holy crap!

I just finished my placement matches. I've mainly been playing custom games vs. AI and friends, but I decided to get it over with and see how good I really was.

I'm in Gold league!





















Even though I lost like two or three of my placement matches. I guess obsessively playing Zerg paid off somewhat...

On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408386*
> Holy crap!
> 
> I just finished my placement matches. I've mainly been playing custom games vs. AI and friends, but I decided to get it over with and see how good I really was.
> 
> I'm in Gold league!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I lost like two or three of my placement matches. I guess obsessively playing Zerg paid off somewhat...
> 
> On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


Mutas or roaches? Not that much to do in midgame ZvP against one base colossus from what I can think of. It's sort of all-in ish, if it doesn't work they need to take a expo ASAP, and they'll be on the back foot. That's when you can just get up one or two more bases of your own to be on 3/4base and just drone up like mad. Try to deny their expo if that build fails while grabbing one of your own.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408386*
> Holy crap!
> 
> I just finished my placement matches. I've mainly been playing custom games vs. AI and friends, but I decided to get it over with and see how good I really was.
> 
> I'm in Gold league!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I lost like two or three of my placement matches. I guess obsessively playing Zerg paid off somewhat...
> 
> On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


Congrats on Gold. Playing ladder is the first step towards getting good.


----------



## DoomDash

I totally want to do this but I'm afraid I'll get banned:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220087


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408386*
> Holy crap!
> 
> I just finished my placement matches. I've mainly been playing custom games vs. AI and friends, but I decided to get it over with and see how good I really was.
> 
> I'm in Gold league!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I lost like two or three of my placement matches. I guess obsessively playing Zerg paid off somewhat...
> 
> On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


Grats!!!

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just keep on practicing

The zerg counter to col is better macro and micro than your opponent. Hard counter is the corrupter or mass roach.


----------



## DoomDash

I think TvZ might be fixed next patch due to ghost change.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408386*
> On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


Since it's not really a viable build I'd say that pretty much anything, but 2 base roach is your best bet imo. If you see protoss not expanding by 6:30 you have to cut drones and only make fighting units. By the time the push comes (I assume 10-11 minutes with 2 colossi) you should have almost twice the food count and better economy, and either burrow or roach speed. Ideally you should aim at 36 drones at 2 bases and pure roach army with speed.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13408656*
> Since it's not really a viable build I'd say that pretty much anything, but 2 base roach is your best bet imo. If you see protoss not expanding by 6:30 you have to cut drones and only make fighting units. By the time the push comes (I assume 10-11 minutes with 2 colossi) you should have almost twice the food count and better economy, and either burrow or roach speed. Ideally you should aim at 36 drones at 2 bases and pure roach army with speed.


Sounds good. I'd never suffered from this cheese before, so I didn't know what was happening. My early scouting made me thing he was doing mass stalkers, so I started making roaches. Then I made a push at ~8:00 and ran into Immortals on his ramp, so I started making Hydras. Attack came at I think 11:20 with two colossi and some supporting units, so I panicked, spammed hydras and roaches and started a Spire in case I survived (I did not).


----------



## Allenssmart

why is protoss so easy mode? currently on an 11 win streak 4 gating on my smurf. roflolol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13408895*
> why is protoss so easy mode? currently on an 11 win streak 4 gating on my smurf. roflolol


Poorly designed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408730*
> Sounds good. I'd never suffered from this cheese before, so I didn't know what was happening. My early scouting made me thing he was doing mass stalkers, so I started making roaches. Then I made a push at ~8:00 and ran into Immortals on his ramp, so I started making Hydras. Attack came at I think 11:20 with two colossi and some supporting units, so I panicked, spammed hydras and roaches and started a Spire in case I survived (I did not).


Uhm, don't attack 1 base protoss. Basically the longer he's not taking he's expansion after 6 minutes mark the more behind he gets.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13408895*
> why is protoss so easy mode? currently on an 11 win streak 4 gating on my smurf. roflolol


In PvZ all you have to do is sit behind your defenses on your two bases until you have a huge scary army. Then take a 3rd, then move some probes over as soon the nexus is complete, then attack immediately and finish the game in one knockout punch. That's a pretty common way of playing PvZ for master and diamond protoss. It's close to what Cruncher usually does and it works fine for him against pro zergs. He sits on 3 bases behind his cannons and plays defense until he has an invincible army. It's rather ******ed, but it works.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Know what would reduce the potency of cannon rushing and turtling Protoss? Make cannons take 25 gas.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13407949*
> http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12876
> 
> Pretty good read.


I agree, found this little gem earlier today and read it. It shows Blizzard's thought behind designing the units and is quite interesting. I really wish they bring back mines for reapers, bc customization and the different queen abilities, given they will have to be slightly modified.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rpg2;13408373*
> Vdek is a mod on Destiny's stream? What....


Not surprised








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13408386*
> Holy crap!
> 
> I just finished my placement matches. I've mainly been playing custom games vs. AI and friends, but I decided to get it over with and see how good I really was.
> 
> I'm in Gold league!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I lost like two or three of my placement matches. I guess obsessively playing Zerg paid off somewhat...
> 
> On a related note, what's the Zerg counter to one base Colossi?


Congrats on making Gold!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13408535*
> I totally want to do this but I'm afraid I'll get banned:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220087


That's awesome and the music in his video was great








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;13409571*
> Know what would reduce the potency of cannon rushing and turtling Protoss? *Make cannons take 25 gas.*


That will NEVER happen because all defense(spines, spores, cannons, bunker) are mineral only and should stay that way. Best a Z can do is constantly harass the P to prevent the massing of units


----------



## Alex132

Then you'd have to make bunkers/spine crawlers cost gas as well, just increase the time of forge/cannon. Worst thing ever for protoss is in FFA's. One protoss managed to use his cannons/stalkers to fend off early attacks from a terran. He was marine/maruader'ing. I just sat pretty with 3 bases and massed marines/marauders/vikings. That one protoss maganged to take out my 3+3 army of about 130ish supply (200 in total) as well as the other 2 players who had stalkers/sentries, ghosts/marines. He had 0+0 voidrays+carriers+mothership. And then he started boasting how hard toss was and he is such an amazing player for winning like that. It made me upset xD


----------



## DoomDash

Who's casting?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^MMR doesn't change from season 1, so, if you were doing well enough, then losing a couple of games then winning one will promote you usually










errr..... nope
i was bronze lasst year, played at most 10 games entire season, so its already pushing it that im silver this season (i think i lost my placement)

thats basically a promotion to silver after losing 1 game, then lose 4 games in a row, then win 1 and promote to gold, thats what it was

i understand what the MMR does, people talk about it all over the place and stuff, its just.....this is the craziest thing ive seen it done


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Congrats on Gold. Playing ladder is the first step towards getting good.


Agreed.

I have a friend who only plays bots and he's terrible. He always wants to play customs with me


----------



## HaVoK C89

I need to find some more ppl to play with myself....its so hard playing competitive when most ppl are really good :/
I think I've played like 1 online gane....lost horribly lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Deleted text


A little harsh don't you think?







Given, I do think he was asking for it with the way he kept on calling everyone a scrub, etc.... I still don't see what's wrong with 4 gating either, it's a viable strat to use and most can't defend against it in the lower leagues. I have a horrible record against it myself but I was able to hold off jedi's 4 gate yesterday so I think I'm improving there XD

I agree with everything. Good forums, good thread, no need to insult others because you don't like another race. It's actually rather childish and the fact of the matter is, at the pro level, it's all somewhat balanced and will be in due time









Quote:



Originally Posted by *HaVoK C89*


I need to find some more ppl to play with myself....its so hard playing competitive when most ppl are really good :/
I think I've played like 1 online gane....lost horribly lol.


Check out the overclock.net channel, you can find some ppl there then you can ask for a game or better yet, ask to spec a game that they play. You'll be able to see the timings, how to harass, strats, BOs, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.sk-gaming.com/video/33872...nda_dodging_me


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.sk-gaming.com/video/33872...nda_dodging_me


won't open(plays first 3sec), net too slow to watch


----------



## BigFan

Thought I'll mention this here:
Just got promoted to gold after winning a ZvsT on plateau. Opponent went for MMT but didn't have a ton of marines so I was able to survive with slings until my mutas popped and the 5 of them with slings cleaned up the rest and his exp then his base. Let's hope we can maintain it now XD
Next stop, platinum


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats on gold BigFan.

GSL

Game is what I've been telling Protoss players. Zealot Templar Archon is already as good as it should be. Archon buff is going to break it IMO.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Congrats on gold BigFan.

GSL

Game is what I've been telling Protoss players. Zealot Templar Archon is already as good as it should be. Archon buff is going to break it IMO.


Thanks, can't say I didn't expect it. Ever since I went on that 9 game win streak, I've been facing gold players and winning/losing about 45% of the time or so. I am surprised that I got promoted after a win, usually you need a loss








As for the spoiler, GSL on now?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes bigfan, semi's.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes bigfan, semi's.


Nice, too bad net started acting up just now XD

GSL:
Sick last game between NesTea and Scfou. Nestea took it but I think Scfou should've taken it


----------



## DoomDash

GSL NEstea vs SC

last game was the closest game ever. also best ive ever seen.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah wt heck? I checked this afternoon and no games were scheduled on gomtv. I tune it on and they're saying that was the best game they've ever seen.

That is b s


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Yeah wt heck? I checked this afternoon and no games were scheduled on gomtv. I tune it on and they're saying that was the best game they've ever seen.

That is b s


Maybe a mess up on their part, but, that game was epic. I rank it up there. You have to watch it!


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

Man, I can't seem to win anything anymore. Now that Protoss players learned how to play I can't even win that match up. If they don't play it right they just all in and the stim delay screws me over.

Sad when TvT is my best match up.


----------



## rhed5

imnestea vs scfou - best game ever


----------



## yks

jediwin, i miss you.

watching that series right now


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Whos streaming that series?


----------



## yks

HOLY MOLY.

That game 5... was TEETH CLENCHING.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13417457*
> HOLY MOLY.
> 
> That game 5... was TEETH CLENCHING.


It was, I thought he lost it for sure. I was wrong








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13416781*
> jediwin, i miss you.
> 
> watching that series right now


Less WoW, more SCII yks


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13417637*
> It was, I thought he lost it for sure. I was wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Less WoW, more SCII yks


I havent played WOW since like January.

I just don't have time for SC2 =[


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13418654*
> I havent played WOW since like January.
> 
> *I just don't have time for SC2 =[*


That's my line









TSL on now for anyone who is interested, link on TL









Edit: Destiny playing as P right now, last placement match. Lost to a proxy gate in PvsP 2 games back XD


----------



## DoomDash

ya and its bullcrap. He just decides to watch VOD's instead.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13413297*
> Thought I'll mention this here:
> Just got promoted to gold after winning a ZvsT on plateau.


does this mean I have to play a few 1v1s now to not get left behind...









grats dude! I hope our custom games helped somewhat...


----------



## yks

I know you miss me, Doom. I'd even miss myself.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13419678*
> ya and its bullcrap. He just decides to watch VOD's instead.


^^ROFL, btw Destiny cannoning rush atm XD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13419767*
> does this mean I have to play a few 1v1s now to not get left behind...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grats dude! I hope our custom games helped somewhat...


rofl, yes, you must get to gold now to not be left behind







Everything helps









These players Destiny is playing are just horrible. I mean he seems forge not gate and then he decides to not check around his base T_T


----------



## Sainesk

who's destiny?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13419907*
> who's destiny?


A master level Z who streams a lot, makes a living off SCII.

He's plat atm playing P: http://www.justin.tv/steven_bonnell_ii?utm_campaign=live_embed_click&utm_source=www.teamliquid.net#/w/1175162720/2


----------



## Sainesk

and he's getting wins with cannon rushes...? >.> lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13419965*
> and he's getting wins with cannon rushes...? >.> lol


It's actually funny and sad but yes, he took a PvsZ on scrap then sealed off just in time before 6 zlings got into his base. His opponents are Plat but playing really badly like going up a ramp when he has mass sentries or not stopping cannons from building, etc....









None of the Z he played against even went as far as mutas, mostly slings+roaches and then badly micro'd XD


----------



## Sainesk

seriously, in plat... I thought holding off cannon was like silver level and below stuff, or maybe my region just has better silver players...

then again i'd have to watch it to see his micro, I bet someone like doom could take me out with a 2 scv micro...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well, canon rushing still happens in the GSL so. I've done a few of them while in diamond for a day last season. Most don't hold if off. Even if they hold if off at first I had the ability to out macro them on one of two bases.


----------



## SethCohen

I want to play SC2 so much.. reading you strategies, makes me wanna play it all night but I cant with my current system..eeh, btw when you max out SC2, do the graphics become really sick and awesome or not that much? something like crysis' graphics?


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SethCohen*


I want to play SC2 so much.. reading you strategies, makes me wanna play it all night but I cant with my current system..eeh, btw when you max out SC2, do the graphics become really sick and awesome or not that much? something like crysis' graphics?


I don't see any difference between High and Ultra.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Lol, destiney just built two robotics support bay.


----------



## cory1234

http://www.z33k.com/starcraft2/tourn...cup-3/brackets

I just wont the Masters Cup #3!!! Woot.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


http://www.z33k.com/starcraft2/tourn...cup-3/brackets

I just wont the Masters Cup #3!!! Woot.


Sweet, nice job! Can't wait to see how you guys perform in the qualifiers









Such an annoying Terran: 

Here I was minding my own business droning and trying to tech and he just kept on wanting to harass me









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


seriously, in plat... I thought holding off cannon was like silver level and below stuff, or maybe my region just has better silver players...

then again i'd have to watch it to see his micro, I bet someone like doom could take me out with a 2 scv micro...










well, I haven't had issues holding it off and winning the game but I guess you can still lose. It's the guy lack of scouting that seemed bizzare to me









Quote:



Originally Posted by *SethCohen*


I want to play SC2 so much.. reading you strategies, makes me wanna play it all night but I cant with my current system..eeh, btw when you max out SC2, do the graphics become really sick and awesome or not that much? something like crysis' graphics?


SCII doesn't need a powerful system, only playing it at med atm but the graphics aren't crysis graphics. The game is more cpu than gpu oriented(barely any fps increase from 8800gts to gtx570). It looks great at ultra, but, only playable on med due to lag whenever there are a lot of units on screen on ultra and its impossible to micro then.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


http://www.z33k.com/starcraft2/tourn...cup-3/brackets

I just wont the Masters Cup #3!!! Woot.


Wow! Cool, how is Doom doing? Any what are your next steps


----------



## BigFan

oGsMC vs. EGMachine right now @ http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NASL.tv









Some cool maps in the NASL like the one they are playing on atm, wish Blizzard with change the map pool to include these maps


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

Forever Bronze


----------



## DoomDash

Forever Master


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


oGsMC vs. EGMachine right now @ http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NASL.tv









Some cool maps in the NASL like the one they are playing on atm, wish Blizzard with change the map pool to include these maps










imbatoss. -g1 at least


----------



## falco216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


imbatoss. -g1 at least


That game didn't show any imbalance imo, pure roach vs mass immortals? lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


imbatoss. -g1 at least


ZvsP might be difficult, but, not impossible if you work at it!









Awesome micro in the 2nd game!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


That game didn't show any imbalance imo, pure roach vs mass immortals? lol


True indeed, same with the crawlers. He had like 9-10 immortals and stalkers against roaches+crawlers with a bit of hydras, so, its not surprising at all! Was rather funny how he plowed through, an "execution" squad!


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty sure I could get LiquidHaypro's results in these big tournaments







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Pretty sure I could get LiquidHaypro's results in these big tournaments







.


Never seen him play/don't know his record but I'm sure you can


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Never seen him play/don't know his record but I'm sure you can










I don't think I've ever seen him win anything







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't think I've ever seen him win anything







.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Wow! Cool, how is Doom doing? Any what are your next steps


Get a real job. Continue to play casual. /Thread.

I'm happy with myself tho, I didn't lose a single game throughout the tournament. Also beat Frisky, (in top 30 in NA), but I'm nowhere near pro level.

MC is beast, and Machine gave MC too much respect imo. I felt like he played really sloppy, or he was really nervous/both.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah machine played that pretty bad.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Get a real job. Continue to play casual. /Thread.

I'm happy with myself tho, *I didn't lose a single game throughout the tournament.* Also beat Frisky, (in top 30 in NA), but I'm nowhere near pro level.

MC is beast, and Machine gave MC too much respect imo. I felt like he played really sloppy, or he was really nervous/both.


I dunno, it said you lost 5 games on that site








As for the MC vs Machine game, well, I think Machine got too greedy and a bit too relaxed in the games.
He made a ton of crawlers thinking he is safe then teched to hive and went BLs+roaches against immortals+stalkers+zealots. I mean, he must've known that P have the immortal, a unit that is a monster at breaking down defenses+roaches. It was funny because the commentators were calling the attack an execution. All I saw was MC ffing a bit to clean up the roaches then moving into the crawlers and wiping them out almost instantly! 
Second match, MC goes 2 gate and machine just keeps throwing lings at him in pairs. What good would that do? I can understand wanting to save the exp but 2 zealots > 2 lings at any time. Better to get that warren faster for faster roaches or at least get more lings then get a surround and exp afterwards but that's just IMO.









Funny thing I found out. That ZvsT game I posted about 2 pages back, looking at the replay, it seems that my T opponent accidentally misclicked and fired at one of his own tanks taking it out. I was wondering why the tank just blew up when my units weren't close enough to it XD


----------



## ThumperSD

Where can I find replay/VOD of MC vs Machine?


----------



## DoomDash

Why would you want to?

Do yourself a favor and watch scfOu vs nestea instead!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I duno if I want to spend the 10 dollars.


----------



## DoomDash

I just crushed orb on his stream.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Gratz Doom Dash! I tuned into his stream there now and he just lost his next game against a Zerg player on Metalopolis. He is raging pretty hard. He's complaining about a Zerg player just attack moving against a protoss....? And complaining about close positions saying its advantageous for a zerg to be in close positions







.

I don't like this Orb guy he is pretty BM, ranting and swearing at chat members and saying he is better than everyone in chat. Dissappointing.

Oh well









Matt


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it was pretty funny. I think he just whines about everything. I heard he was whining about our game but I didn't catch it. Hopefully the vod comes after he is done







.

*lol he got 8-12 pooled like 3 times in a row.


----------



## DoomDash

Me vs Orb, Orb's point of view, ( starts at 1 hour 57 min )
http://www.justin.tv/orbtl/b/285412697
Continues on:
http://www.justin.tv/orbtl/b/285415148

stay after for lols with pvz


----------



## DoomDash

Made a youtube version if you don't wanna skip around.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4[/ame]


----------



## yks

Idra banned from TL for 90days, haha


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13427935*
> Idra banned from TL for 90days, haha


What did he do this time?


----------



## Alex132

IMO IdrA raging is mostly understandable but sometimes not.
I do it a lot and take it out on the people I am playing against rather than the game etc XD


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dropkickninja;13427964*
> What did he do this time?


Cruncher sniped him on the ladder.

Idra felt he was cheating, thus insulting Cruncher.

Chill temp banned him for 2 days.

Idra posts on his twitter, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you"

So all his fanboys were PMing Chill relentlessly.

Then Nazgul laid down the banhammer.

But the hilarity ensued when most of his fanboys were mercilessly saying, "he cheated! he cheated!" w/o any proof other than the stream was up and muted for a ladder snipe.

Some people didn't even know what ladder sniping is and confused it for stream cheating. haha, silly fanboys.


----------



## Nw0rb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13427891*
> Made a youtube version if you don't wanna skip around.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4


Haha I love at the end when somone tells him to get mor sentrys hahahah and tells them there brain has been melted by a microwave hahahah o god i was rolling good one dash


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13427891*
> Made a youtube version if you don't wanna skip around.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4


Holy **** he's an idiot. I mean, complains about everything and went 100% stalkers in that game before he even saw anything from you.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13426681*
> Why would you want to?
> 
> Do yourself a favor and watch scfOu vs nestea instead!


I would say they are both good, but, match 5 from the nestea one takes the cake. I think watching the MC one is good as well








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13427935*
> Idra banned from TL for 90days, haha


rofl, I think that banning him because his fanboy send messages to chill is a bit much though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13427891*
> Made a youtube version if you don't wanna skip around.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4


Funny game, I agree^^ He just went mass stalkers without scouting much and then didn't even want for his upgrades even though they were close. I was surprised when he moved his whole stalker army to take out the rocks at the exp and leaving his front open. you could've easily run in, stim and take out the pylon/gates and leave


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13428571*
> Holy **** he's an idiot. I mean, complains about everything and went 100% stalkers in that game before he even saw anything from you.


lol what?

Doom did you stream it too with your pov?


----------



## Sainesk

anybody ever had a game where the opponents made 5 changelings?

that achievements starting to look pretty hard without actually asking my opponent to make some, not that I would since that would feel like cheating...

hopefully day9 has a mass changeling week one day...


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13428571*
> Holy **** he's an idiot. I mean, complains about everything and went 100% stalkers in that game before he even saw anything from you.


I know that was the most annoying thing to hear ever


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


anybody ever had a game where the opponents made 5 changelings?

that achievements starting to look pretty hard without actually asking my opponent to make some, not that I would since that would feel like cheating...

hopefully day9 has a mass changeling week one day...










lol @ last comment. I think I might have had it once a long time back but not positive. 
Naniwa 4 gated Hasu twice in a row and up 2-1 now


----------



## MrHackysack

I have a question. I run Starcraft II completely maxed out on my sig rig. Never have any hiccups, blimps, or anything; even when 4-5 massed out armies are colliding. Yet I see people with MUCH better setups having trouble maxing 1v1s?


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol @ last comment. I think I might have had it once a long time back but not positive. 
Naniwa 4 gated Hasu twice in a row and up 2-1 now










Looking good for this series!


----------



## BigFan

^^ That last game had some nice micro, looking forward to this one going on atm









Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrHackysack*


I have a question. I run Starcraft II completely maxed out on my sig rig. Never have any hiccups, blimps, or anything; even when 4-5 massed out armies are colliding. Yet I see people with MUCH better setups having trouble maxing 1v1s?


No clue why I have issues, so, I'm at med for MP but go ultra for SP









Edit: 
Naniwa won, 4 gated again XD His micro is pretty awesome, went 4-1 against Hasu.


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm streaming right now guys, www.justin.tv/glorify


----------



## DoomDash

Yellow no I didn't stream since I've been in a slump lately I don't want to see everyone see me rage







.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yellow no I didn't stream since I've been in a slump lately I don't want to see everyone see me rage







.


I only played one, but my quality/fps seem to be pretty poor atm. I am not sure what I changed but I'll have to mess around with my settings when I have some time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yellow no I didn't stream since I've been in a slump lately I don't want to see everyone see me rage







.


Darn, you mean you actually rage in your stream







I should watch more often


----------



## DoomDash

More like whine. Not all the time, but I haven't felt like streaming unless I feel at least mostly confident.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*   Where can I find replay/VOD of MC vs Machine?  
It' going to be restreamed in just a while:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NASL.tv

Also:    
 Nestea vs SC


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrHackysack*


I have a question. I run Starcraft II completely maxed out on my sig rig. Never have any hiccups, blimps, or anything; even when 4-5 massed out armies are colliding. Yet I see people with MUCH better setups having trouble maxing 1v1s?


all about the resolution would be my guess

I know my 5850 I game on sheds tears in 4v4s on ultra at 1920x1080 (or maybe that's just the tubing leaking...)


----------



## Ruckol1

I could really use a help with someone analyzing this game..

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-metalopolis

I am very unsure what I did wrong, I did okay in macro but my unit composition and micro were (IMO) far better than his and when we had our game-decision engagement he stomped me even though I had hard counters to his army composition, and a almost perfect concave. I was 2-2, I think he was 2-1, or 2-0 on upgrades too. His colossi did near no damage either.

:s ??


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrHackysack*


I have a question. I run Starcraft II completely maxed out on my sig rig. Never have any hiccups, blimps, or anything; even when 4-5 massed out armies are colliding. Yet I see people with MUCH better setups having trouble maxing 1v1s?


It could be they are experiencing lag from bnet or stream program.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It' going to be restreamed in just a while:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NASL.tv

Also: Nestea vs SC


Is that the fifth game between sc and nes?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I dunno, it said you lost 5 games on that site







As for the MC vs Machine game, well, I think Machine got too greedy and a bit too relaxed in the games.
He made a ton of crawlers thinking he is safe then teched to hive and went BLs+roaches against immortals+stalkers+zealots. I mean, he must've known that P have the immortal, a unit that is a monster at breaking down defenses+roaches. It was funny because the commentators were calling the attack an execution. All I saw was MC ffing a bit to clean up the roaches then moving into the crawlers and wiping them out almost instantly! 
Second match, MC goes 2 gate and machine just keeps throwing lings at him in pairs. What good would that do? I can understand wanting to save the exp but 2 zealots > 2 lings at any time. Better to get that warren faster for faster roaches or at least get more lings then get a surround and exp afterwards but that's just IMO.









Funny thing I found out. That ZvsT game I posted about 2 pages back, looking at the replay, it seems that my T opponent accidentally misclicked and fired at one of his own tanks taking it out. I was wondering why the tank just blew up when my units weren't close enough to it XD


Z33K keeps track of your win/loss record for all of the tournaments you play on the site. If you check out the brackets you can see







.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I could really use a help with someone analyzing this game..

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-metalopolis

I am very unsure what I did wrong, I did okay in macro but my unit composition and micro were (IMO) far better than his and when we had our game-decision engagement he stomped me even though I had hard counters to his army composition, and a almost perfect concave. I was 2-2, I think he was 2-1, or 2-0 on upgrades too. His colossi did near no damage either.

:s ??


At the beginning I don't like how you pulled 3 drones to try to get the probe. When you get 100 gas for ling speed stop mining gas. You were over 200 gas before your roach warren was done. Your getting your expo really late. Also, your roach warren was really early. I noticed you built it and then didn't build any units. It's better to get it after your natural is up. Once you scout the 4wg then roach warren/ spine.


----------



## Silentness

My job blocked the teamliquid website again... *sigh*

Why can't I study Starcraft 2 strategies and build orders at work








_______

In ZvP when do you start pumping out hydralisks over roaches? They're pretty much useless against colossi and only seems like I put down a hydralisk den if I see mass phoenix/void ray army composition. If no stargate I just keep pumping roaches/zerglings is that viable?

I'm currently only random Silver... haha sad I know *face palm* I need to find more excuses to tell my GF that I need to play more SC2.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I could really use a help with someone analyzing this game..

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-metalopolis

I am very unsure what I did wrong, I did okay in macro but my unit composition and micro were (IMO) far better than his and when we had our game-decision engagement he stomped me even though I had hard counters to his army composition, and a almost perfect concave. I was 2-2, I think he was 2-1, or 2-0 on upgrades too. His colossi did near no damage either.

:s ??


Let's start with the big stuff:

- you were out droned the whole game
- you were out based in the majority of the game
- you didn't scout or respond to the four gate properly
- you didn't respond to loosing a base and still out droned, instead you single expanded while producing units instead of drones
- you invested in items and evo chamber but don't use or produce out of it b/c of your poor economy

Small stuff:

- you didn't scout before when the earliest warpgate research was done with sac overlord
- you should have been trying to snipe the pylon and probe 
- once you see he is not warping units to kill your lings at his base, you should know he's producing units elsewhere
- you could have ran a few more lings inside his mineral lines
- more creep
- better attacks like sniping his third, or nydus his main as harass
- final engagement was at your natural, cutting your expos and main tech buildings/reinforcements, leaving you no time for reinforcement while he can warp right away

Basically he outplayed you the entire game. There are just fundamentals that wasn't done and because of it he got ahead and then got further ahead. For example, most zergs facing two base protoss would have two evo and start third base at 8-10min mark. Most would then single or double expand when protoss expand to a third. They also built another macro hatch. Their creep around the 8 min mark is around what you have late game. Overall just need to work on the core mechanics.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Is that the fifth game between sc and nes?


Yeah, watch fast before it goes down.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I am surprised that I got promoted after a win, usually you need a loss








As for the spoiler, GSL on now?










I won a game got promoted to Silver... then lost a game and demoted back to Bronze... then promoted back to Silver after winning a game lolz.

I'm disappointed in my playing.

I was a D+ Terran player on Iccup for Brood War and now I'm only a silver random player in SC2. I need to mass game, but I don't really have the time nowadays. Should I "GG quit" my girlfriend? I almost beat a platinum level zerg in ZvZ during a ladder match. (I was his placement match) I was winning until I decided to try and finish his main and ran into a 1000 spine crawlers like a tard. I also lost another ZvZ that I was winning by not building a hydralisk den and losing mutas one by one to his 1 base gigantic stack of mutas. I had like 10 expos and lost all of them because I didn't have spore crawlers or any hydralisks in time. Just a small amount of mutas and a destroyed spire. FAIL
________
PS: Lolz anyone ever played any Grand Master league players? I lost a ladder match to a guy that is currently Rank 1 in his Master League bracket. I think he has the potential to grab one of the top 200 NA grandmaster slots. I don't remember his character code, but his name is Iloveoov (obviously a fan of the Korean retired Terran player)

I was his placement match opponent. I've been tracking him down since he destroyed me in our match.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrHackysack*


I was playing TvZ today (as Terran) and something happened I have never seen before.

It was late game and I was working off of 4 command centers to keep up with my Zerg opponent. As i moved my force across the map on the the creep towards the Z main base I experienced a new harass: 2 infestors unborrowed at each of my bases and FG'd my SCV's twice, ALL SCV'S DEAD in what felt like 8 seconds. (Gold league btw :\\)

I didn't have time to watch the replay but I will later. 
Have any of you experienced this?


yeah ROOT (SC2 team) zerg players do it all the time. It's pretty good harassment.


----------



## DoomDash

wow banelings. ( sen vs mana ).


----------



## cory1234

Just looking at SC2ranks.com and there isn't one Protoss in the top 10 for NA







.

Banes are so strong in ZvT and ZvP. I would almost say they are harder to dodge in ZvP.


----------



## yks

zergs be figuring sh.it out, mang.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Let's start with the big stuff:

- you were out droned the whole game
- you were out based in the majority of the game
- you didn't scout or respond to the four gate properly
- you didn't respond to loosing a base and still out droned, instead you single expanded while producing units instead of drones
- you invested in items and evo chamber but don't use or produce out of it b/c of your poor economy

Small stuff:

- you didn't scout before when the earliest warpgate research was done with sac overlord
- you should have been trying to snipe the pylon and probe 
- once you see he is not warping units to kill your lings at his base, you should know he's producing units elsewhere
- you could have ran a few more lings inside his mineral lines
- more creep
- better attacks like sniping his third, or nydus his main as harass
- final engagement was at your natural, cutting your expos and main tech buildings/reinforcements, leaving you no time for reinforcement while he can warp right away

Basically he outplayed you the entire game. There are just fundamentals that wasn't done and because of it he got ahead and then got further ahead. For example, most zergs facing two base protoss would have two evo and start third base at 8-10min mark. Most would then single or double expand when protoss expand to a third. They also built another macro hatch. Their creep around the 8 min mark is around what you have late game. Overall just need to work on the core mechanics.



I did my best to put your tips to use in this match: came out much better

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-metalopolis


----------



## MrHackysack

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


yeah ROOT (SC2 team) zerg players do it all the time. It's pretty good harassment.


Yea, it was pretty awesome.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Just looking at SC2ranks.com and there isn't one Protoss in the top 10 for NA







.

Banes are so strong in ZvT and ZvP. I would almost say they are harder to dodge in ZvP.


I don't think they are harder to dodge ( Blink, FF, stalkers are fast ), and certainly give you more leeway with eating shots anyway since everything you guys have has 9 million HP.

But they are good vs P and T none the less.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't think they are harder to dodge ( Blink, FF, stalkers are fast ), and certainly give you more leeway with eating shots anyway since everything you guys have has 9 million HP.

But they are good vs P and T none the less.


Blink isn't that good imo tho. If you blink in your stalkers towards the ovies they are right up against a ton of roaches, and if you blink away your sentries and colossus are next in line to be hit by banes. It's a really tricky, difficult scenario to deal with. All they have to do is get the sentries one time, and then it gets really hard.

Poor Drewbie...1-3.


----------



## DoomDash

I need to put ghosts into my game:


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13386623*
> lol Artosis is not even close to pro level, I guess that explains why I beat him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Artosis just isn't the same anymore. He's no longer the Artosis that had a decent Terran in Brood War... now he's the grumpy old man that commentates SC2 and reminisce about his glory days of being a top player.

*EDIT* yeah I'm reading this thread backwards. So I'm quoting a lot of older posts... >,< Trying to keep up on this thread.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;13437678*
> Artosis just isn't the same anymore. He's no longer the Artosis that had a decent Terran in Brood War... now he's the *grumpy old man* that commentates SC2 and reminisce about his glory days of being a top player.
> 
> *EDIT* yeah I'm reading this thread backwards. So I'm quoting a lot of older posts... >,< Trying to keep up on this thread.


ROFL @ bolded. It's np @ edit








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13437590*
> I need to put ghosts into my game:


Yes, you do. I keep forgetting about EMP then get all my marines FG'd and lost them all









@Cory Here's the TvsZ replay that I mentioned:

I was hoping to follow this same strat against CalmStorm due to how effective it is, but, as you could see, things didn't quite work out well XD


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13437851*
> I was hoping to follow this same strat against CalmStorm due to how effective it is, but, as you could see, things didn't quite work out well XD


the marine push? or something else?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

To his defense (Artosis) I don't think he has much time to practice his play. Also this game is just a game. All you need is decent mouse control and lots o practice to be good. So if he has time I'm sure he'll get back to decent top level.


----------



## esprit

Ya as much as Artosis want to be able to keep up with the pros, his full-time job as a commentator is sure keeping him from that. He's decent at this game though and it sure shows in his commentating.


----------



## DoomDash

I'll still beat him.


----------



## Dr216

you also have to consider the latency, he will be playing with a good 500+ms just watch any of the top Korean pro's try and play on tsl or whatever and you can see how much they struggle.

Just becuase he works in the industry doesn't mean he gets to play that much, he gets no more practice than any of us who work full time jobs can fit in.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You cocky sob lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13438327*
> You cocky sob lol


I like to think of myself as very grounded.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL at the colossus stand off for the last 15 minutes


----------



## DoomDash

PvP so bad.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

They're showing highlights of poltprime vs mc on xel naga. It's exactly what I was talking about regarding terran using drops to divide the protoss ball.


----------



## DoomDash

What about it? Isn't this common knowledge ?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What do you mean? You were the one who said drops weren't effective vs toss.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13438648*
> What do you mean? You were the one who said drops weren't effective vs toss.


Situational. Just need more observers







to see them coming. See Kiwi vs Select @ MLG.

Drops are risky and at times lose you the game, but with any risk there is also reward.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


It could be they are experiencing lag from bnet or stream program.

Is that the fifth game between sc and nes?


I think its partly due to lag. Yes, that game is the fifth game.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Z33K keeps track of your win/loss record for all of the tournaments you play on the site. If you check out the brackets you can see







.

At the beginning I don't like how you pulled 3 drones to try to get the probe. When you get 100 gas for ling speed stop mining gas. You were over 200 gas before your roach warren was done. Your getting your expo really late. Also, your roach warren was really early. I noticed you built it and then didn't build any units. It's better to get it after your natural is up. Once you scout the 4wg then roach warren/ spine.


ah I see, makes sense









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


My job blocked the teamliquid website again... *sigh*

Why can't I study Starcraft 2 strategies and build orders at work








_______

In ZvP when do you start pumping out hydralisks over roaches? They're pretty much useless against colossi and only seems like I put down a hydralisk den if I see mass phoenix/void ray army composition. If no stargate I just keep pumping roaches/zerglings is that viable?

I'm currently only random Silver... haha sad I know *face palm* I need to find more excuses to tell my GF that I need to play more SC2.


lol, any excuses would do









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


the marine push? or something else?










In that replay, I bunker rushed to take out exp followed by a strong MMT push. My opponent didn't know what hit him and his slings+roaches didn't stand a chance









rofl @ being grounded comment


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I think its partly due to lag. Yes, that game is the fifth game.

ah I see, makes sense









lol, any excuses would do









In that replay, I bunker rushed to take out exp followed by a strong MMT push. My opponent didn't know what hit him and his slings+roaches didn't stand a chance









rofl @ being grounded comment










What league? The guy just didn't scout. If he had his overlord over his natural, he could have just sent some drones to fend off the bunker rush with only 1 SCV, and for some reason he took a third even though his bases weren't saturated(and his first was late sine the first hatch was destroyed) and droned up.

Had he just sac'd his OV at your wall he would have seen the push and could have just stopped it with lings(had he spread creep).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


What league? The guy just didn't scout. If he had his overlord over his natural, he could have just sent some drones to fend off the bunker rush with only 1 SCV, and for some reason he took a third even though his bases weren't saturated(and his first was late sine the first hatch was destroyed) and droned up.

Had he just sac'd his OV at your wall he would have seen the push and could have just stopped it with lings(had he spread creep).


Gold league atm. Just got recently promoted. You'll be surprised how many Zs don't send an OL near the ramp incase of bunker rushes. As for the push, I don't think so. I was prepared with a 2nd even bigger push, so, maybe he would've stopped the first, but, not the second. In that case, I was going to expand and attack at the same time incase it fails and for more income


----------



## Rust1d?

4v4 Ghost Strat.

Hey guys, when playing 4v4's, what do you think of building just ghosts to follow your team around to EMP/snipe as a suppost role? Could also include some medivacs, but was thinking mass ghosts. Also can nuke 10 different locations at the same time. Thoughts?


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Gold league atm. Just got recently promoted. You'll be surprised how many Zs don't send an OL near the ramp incase of bunker rushes. As for the push, I don't think so. I was prepared with a 2nd even bigger push, so, maybe he would've stopped the first, but, not the second. In that case, I was going to expand and attack at the same time incase it fails and for more income










Congrats on promotion to gold.

I haven't played a single game since I got silver. I'm too scared of getting demoted...


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I did my best to put your tips to use in this match: came out much better

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...rg-metalopolis


7 DL's not one is me, no comments? Tips


----------



## Ikthus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


Congrats on promotion to gold.

I haven't played a single game since I got silver. I'm too scared of getting demoted...


Don't be scared of losing man, just get on and have fun...otherwise you'll never play again


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


Congrats on promotion to gold.

I haven't played a single game since I got silver. I'm too scared of getting demoted...


Thanks







Well, I was worried about that originally, but, worse case scenario, if you get demoted, you face some bronze players in your case. In mine, its silver, but, I have 9 different MUs, some that I'm great at, others not so much, so, I get MUs from both camps and it kinda balances it out. That also doesn't take into account winning MUs that I'm not great at, because, I was able to read my opponent or macro/micro well enough









All you need to do is macro well and you'll be promoted back up. Get upgrades, keep making units, workers and supply depots then attack when you feel like you can take his army out with minimal losses(maybe once a specific upgrade is done or before he gets colossi(timing window)). Most players can't deal with early harass either. If you micro well (attack depot, move back, attack again, etc.... and keep wrapping in units) then you can eventually break through. Alternatively, you can focus fire their units(no bunker) and take it from there. It all comes down to how well you micro your units/macro in your base and how well your opponent reacts to it









I don't think I've been driven more nuts in any game like in this TvsZ I just played:

Gotta thank Blizzard for the ability to lift off terran buildings







One thing that I find interesting is that I'm starting to get more TvsZ games, great for practicing that MU


----------



## CravinR1

I have went up and down between bronze/silver

I'm currently in the top 10 league of silver and working toward improving my build.

So far in silver league i'm having luck with:

2 gate + 1 robo get zealots until I can get stalkers then get a immortal and observer than start on colossus


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I have went up and down between bronze/silver

I'm currently in the top 10 league of silver and working toward improving my build.

So far in silver league i'm having luck with:

2 gate + 1 robo get zealots until I can get stalkers then get a immortal and observer than start on colossus


thats a good build. 2 gate robo is a little risky, depending on the match up. I would prefer 3 gate robo, 4 gate, or one base skillossi all in. But as long as you keep your a-move micro up and keep making skillossi, you'll get into gold in no time. Good luck on getting a promotion! If you have a game where you don't know what you did wrong, post up a replay and I'll see if you remembered to make skillossi. Always there to help newer players.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If you're talking about pvps, two gate robo is risky unless you scouted their base and saw delayed four gate or 2 gas build. If you're going two gate you're looking to take an expansion quickly, or defend vs 4 gate with 3 gate robo then expand with immortal support, or you're seeing blink stalkers.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


If you're talking about pvps, two gate robo is risky unless you scouted their base and saw delayed four gate or 2 gas build. If you're going two gate you're looking to take an expansion quickly, or defend vs 4 gate with 3 gate robo then expand with immortal support, or you're seeing blink stalkers.


100% true. I've tried using 3 gate against 4 gate then add in a robobay for immortals, its not that easy. 2 gate robo is really risky because you'll get overwhelmed pretty fast and no amount of micro can save you!


----------



## DoomDash

I got half of my gosucoaching lesson with LZgamer recorded. I should have recorded from the beginning but I was worried about lag.

video coming soon.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I got half of my gosucoaching lesson with LZgamer recorded. I should have recorded from the beginning but I was worried about lag.

video coming soon.


Nice, sadly I only saw the part when he was attacking with tanks+ so I missed the whole first part. It was interesting to see him utilize BCs though and I kinda agree about the drop part(thor). Other than that, I found that the quality was choppy, maybe has to do with my net but it was fine then, so, I dunno


----------



## DoomDash

Here is the VODs of EGLZGamer training me. Only got half as I said.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CFD72503751666B2


----------



## CravinR1

In 1v1 seems I have to work off one base, and zergs love to roach rush


----------



## DoomDash

Our matches in replay form. TvZ first one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13447923*
> Our matches in replay form. TvZ first one.


Thanks for the replays Doom!









Edit: Patch 1.3.3 live on sea: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221333
Pretty fast to release a patch from PTR


----------



## Rpg2

How do you deal with mass stalkers blinking into your base in PvP with your forces slightly out of position and opponent has colossus for vision? It causes so much damage in so little time. Any specific ways go prevent this?


----------



## DoomDash

Impressive for a random player.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2688364/1/PiLLaGe/ladder/41471#current-rank


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Impressive for a random player.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...1#current-rank


That is impressive.


----------



## DoomDash

Nevermind, hacker, should have known.


----------



## CravinR1

I am so pleased with myself

I primarily play 2v2 being toss and random partners

This sucks when the opponents get together and plan to do a probe rush and your partner doesn't know how to react.

When I saw the probe rush I immediately took my probes and exited the base to go kill their working probes (they send all the starting probes then the probes that are made will be mining so they can tech after the opponents probes are dead)

So they killed my nexus, my terran ally got marines out, I killed al the probes in both their bases and destroyed one of their nexus

Boo-Yah cheesing ***s


----------



## DoomDash

New map for GSL team league.. looks good!


----------



## BountyHead

Looks like a WC3 map nice. Thats gonna be interesting.


----------



## CravinR1

Is it all low lands except for the spawns?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

SHINJO KICK!!!

Nice, all them water.

So few hours ago I've been trying normal hotkeys. For example, 3 or 4 gateway production, 4 or 5-0 nexus. 1 zeal/sentry/archon, 2 stalker, 3 ht/col. I don't like it.

My normal would be, macro keys on the left on the G15 set to 0-6 from the bottom macro key to the top macro key. This would be nexus the bottom left macro key (0), gate + forge/twi/ColDEN/TempA (9) second, robo (8), star (7), probe (6). I think blackwidow users should try that. You can change it for your race. This will allow you to have your normal 1-6 on your keyboard free for unit control instead of building control. So your left pinky and ring finger would be able to reach the macro button keys on the left while your normal reach will find 1-6 on the top for fast control.

My current setup is a combo of filco tenkeyless brown mechanical and razer naga. The extra buttons on the naga means I can do the same as the macro keys on the G15, but with my right hand controlling 6-0. Hence switching to the normal 1-0 on the keyboard with 4 production, 5-0 nexus doesn't seem to work.

Reason why I brought it up is because I tried last hour then I checked out LZgamers's coaching doom and it seem to be everyone's scheme.

edit: I frigging hate what Ryung is doing to MC atm. I hate siege rine banshee raven vs Toss.


----------



## dcloud

Thats a great looking new map! But where are the Xel'naga Towers!?!?!


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dcloud*


Thats a great looking new map! But where are the Xel'naga Towers!?!?!


and where are the destructible rocks!!!?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nevermind, hacker, should have known.


Thing thats most shocking is that if you google for it there is so many people QQ'ing at him for "wasting such and awesome hack" seriously....am also shocked at how many map hacks seem to be readily available, it never occurred to me that there were so many scum out there.

I dont get it if you play games why cheat? if your too bad to win legit then learn to play better and quit ruining it for everyone else.

This is also the reason for them rushing 1.3.3 out so fast apparently fixes the exploit this guy was using to auto DC his opponent from games.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Just looking at SC2ranks.com and there isn't one Protoss in the top 10 for NA







.


Doesn't really mean anything







.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Thing thats most shocking is that if you google for it there is so many people QQ'ing at him for "wasting such and awesome hack" seriously....am also shocked at how many map hacks seem to be readily available, it never occurred to me that there were so many scum out there.

I dont get it if you play games why cheat? if your too bad to win legit then learn to play better and quit ruining it for everyone else.

This is also the reason for them rushing 1.3.3 out so fast apparently fixes the exploit this guy was using to auto DC his opponent from games.


The hack was being used by others as well. He wasn't alone.


----------



## poroboszcz

White-Ra testing PvP on NA:

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/White-Ra

I think he's about to be joined by David Kim and KiWiKaKi.


----------



## yks

IM unable to make the cut for this months GSTL, =[ replaced by team MVP


----------



## CravinR1

I was not prepared for this, and am a noob but here is where I was worker rushed and we won.

My first FRAPS video, and I converted to a low quality so it'd upload faster but here it is:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh6HgPo6Chw[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

ZvT is so broken >.<.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


ZvT is so broken >.<.


How so?

Roach rush kills me bad as Toss


----------



## poroboszcz

I recommend artosis stream to anyone having problems with falling asleep.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13450963*
> New map for GSL team league.. looks good!


That looks like such a sweet map, a little WC3ish, but, looks fantastic either way. Like the addition of water, since, all maps atm are dry








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13460748*
> I recommend artosis stream to anyone having problems with falling asleep.


lol, good idea








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13460620*
> ZvT is so broken >.<.


How so? Infestors?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


How so? Infestors?



Everything.

On the positive side, I beat Chill today:

Chill from weapon of choice / TL mod. 2nd TL mod I beat too ( other was plexa ).
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Chill



oh and me and jediwin played that map, its pretty awesome.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah we all know chill

I lol at infestors atm. OPPPP

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


How so?

Roach rush kills me bad as Toss


Y U no scout with probes?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Yeah we all know chill

Y U no scout with probes?


3 roach sling rush... so good







.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Ghosts aren't really used too much against Z because Terran has to go tanks in ZvT, while in TvP Terran's rarely go tanks unless they are doing a mech build. The benefit is TvP is much greater when you can render FF/Guardian shield/storms useless and cut the armies life in half..lmao. The gas cost isn't worth it for a few infestors in TvZ imo.


I had to quote this. So how about now... can we say ghosts can be a lot more viable as support unit to a tank heavy force?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


New map for GSL team league.. looks good!



















one problem, how do I get my scvs off their sunbeds and tell them working on a tan might not be the best defense against alien invasion? (also lol at blizzard taking down the day9 app to "review their video policy for apps", theyre starting to shoot themselves in the foot lately imo...)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I had to quote this. So how about now... can we say ghosts can be a lot more viable as support unit to a tank heavy force?


Esp when snipe can be used on BLs with great effect.

Since I'm Canada,

GO HUK!


----------



## CravinR1

I need to learn what units counter others. Thats my biggest weakness.

I don't even know if immortals can attack air units? I don't think they can


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Esp when snipe can be used on BLs with great effect.

Since I'm Canada,

GO HUK!


It takes quite a lot of energy to kill a BL. I've been trying to work them in but its hard cause they are so mineral heavy and I never have any money.


----------



## Dr216

Obviously im not playing at masters level (currently going up and down between plat and gold) but as far as I can tell from my own use and from watching GSL infesters can be hard to deal with but as terran should be spreading bio anyway to avoid the banes I dont see them as Op they are also extremely expensive, certainly starting to see allot more ghosts in tvz recently though speed nerf on infesters may make dodging emp fun : / could also be good becuase they will hang back naturally rather than keeping on running off and dieing









Snipe on BL takes allot of energy yes but its pretty cost effective to take down such an expensive (both in money but also imo more significantly time) zerg unit.

I'd be interested to hear what your struggling against in zvt as right now its by far my weakest match-up. Such strong early aggression forces me to build too much army and then i loose the long term economy race, but cutting army means i just die early. currently experimenting with spanishiwa style which seems to work pretty well but It feels kind of fragile when a mass marine ball comes and you have no gas and thus no banes need to play with that a bit more though see where it takes me.


----------



## jpaolof

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


New map for GSL team league.. looks good!



















Wow! this map is huge and water looks nice too! kinda WC'ish.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I need to learn what units counter others. Thats my biggest weakness.

I don't even know if immortals can attack air units? I don't think they can


Nope, immortals can't attack air. Best units against them are the ones that do damage less than 10, so, that their specific ability isn't activated(reducing damage to max 10). Counters are very important in this game because certain units can really tear others a new one, like immortals against roaches or marauders









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


one problem, how do I get my scvs off their sunbeds and tell them working on a tan might not be the best defense against alien invasion? (also lol at blizzard taking down the day9 app to "review their video policy for apps", theyre starting to shoot themselves in the foot lately imo...)


lol, tell them that if they do work on a tan, they'll die


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Obviously im not playing at masters level (currently going up and down between plat and gold) but as far as I can tell from my own use and from watching GSL infesters can be hard to deal with but as terran should be spreading bio anyway to avoid the banes I dont see them as Op they are also extremely expensive, certainly starting to see allot more ghosts in tvz recently though speed nerf on infesters may make dodging emp fun : / could also be good becuase they will hang back naturally rather than keeping on running off and dieing









Snipe on BL takes allot of energy yes but its pretty cost effective to take down such an expensive (both in money but also imo more significantly time) zerg unit.

I'd be interested to hear what your struggling against in zvt as right now its by far my weakest match-up. Such strong early aggression forces me to build too much army and then i loose the long term economy race, but cutting army means i just die early. currently experimenting with spanishiwa style which seems to work pretty well but It feels kind of fragile when a mass marine ball comes and you have no gas and thus no banes need to play with that a bit more though see where it takes me.



I've been getting ghosts. FG is just stupid good, it makes no sense. I don't think it's a problem by itself, I think its more of a problem in good company. You don't need a lot of infestors to brutalize the Terran army. I still think Muta openings are far more of a pain in the ass though. A good Zerg player just picks me apart.

But honestly I struggle vs almost all Zerg builds. Zerg just has so many good options and Terran has to play flawless to beat them, or at least close. Almost all Terrans I know agree TvZ is by far the hardest match up.

Then you put Zerg on a big map and its just such a pain. I believe from the bottom of my heart its unbalanced, at least at my level. Pro level Terran seems awesome ( because they play them flawless ).

LZgamer even said he thinks Zerg late game vs Terran is ridiculously broken due to tier 3 + investors. He said that when we trained the other day.


----------



## rhed5

Played doom on that new map. Really really fun map. No xel naga tower means, you need to be much more wary of putting units in position for scouting. Didn't realize till way later that I can spread creep on water!


----------



## Dr216

I do think that you need to keep zerg on the back foot, if you haven't seriously hurt them by the time they get to hive and have mass expanded etc then your going to be in serious trouble, but i would say zerg pay for that by having to either sacrifice econ or map control in the early/early mid game.

my experience is as terran if i keep up heavy pressure in the early game zerg mostly end up over commuting on units and then a strong tank timing push rolls him over. If i ever try and sit back a little and tech then he just creams me









(i play random btw so im kind of nooby at all of them







)


----------



## Twistacles

@DoomDash

The problem with TvZ is that it's sort of a tenuous balance. There's a lot of all-ins and timing pushes you can do that can completely roflstomp the zerg if they don't see it coming, but if you play a standard game you're kind of selling yourself short.

Holy **** mass Muta is annoying. Seriously. I think I'll start going 12 rax 1 fact or something


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Holy **** mass Muta is annoying. Seriously. I think I'll start going 12 rax 1 fact or something


You should play jediwin TvZ. He loves his muta's.. and its really annoying. I got the plus armor and + range for my turrets last time.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You should play jediwin TvZ. He loves his muta's.. and its really annoying. I got the plus armor and + range for my turrets last time.


have you tried reactor hellion into cloaked banshee and then go for a 2 base siege tank timing attack?

or you should check out halby's uber ups tvz build, can you split?

or just do the tlo build.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


have you tried reactor hellion into cloaked banshee and then go for a 2 base siege tank timing attack?

or you should check out halby's uber ups tvz build, can you split?

or just do the tlo build.


The prob with banshee/hellion is that spanishwa build roflstomps this and its bad on small chokes like shakuras/taldarim

Whats the tlo build


----------



## DoomDash

I do all of those, or similar. I think he is talking about TLO's 7 rax rush. Did that to jediwin, woulda won but it was cross position.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I do all of those, or similar. I think he is talking about TLO's 7 rax rush. Did that to jediwin, woulda won but it was cross position.


depending on spawn position and the map, sometimes i proxy 6 of them while keeping one in my base so it looks like I'm going for a quick 1 rax fe. then they drone up and suddenly you're at his base with 20 marines and you her der his base.

btw, I never knew that sc2 was so cpu dependant. From stock 2.8Ghz with HT, yesterday I turned my overclock back on up to 4.2Ghz HT off. FPS shot up from 70 to 180. wow. really.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I really need to overclock. Stupid SCII.


----------



## rhed5

Occasionally when i'm gaming, I have huge spikes and game pauses then fastforwards 2-3 seconds. most of the time this isn't too much of an issue as I've been lucky with when I lag but, it's still annoying. Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?

I reseated my cooler a couple days ago, temps are down @ around 55 in-game. 38 at idle. Previosuly aroudn 60. What do you guys have?


----------



## DoomDash

I want a SSD too so bad.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Occasionally when i'm gaming, I have huge spikes and game pauses then fastforwards 2-3 seconds. most of the time this isn't too much of an issue as I've been lucky with when I lag but, it's still annoying. Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?

I reseated my cooler a couple days ago, temps are down @ around 55 in-game. 38 at idle. Previosuly aroudn 60. What do you guys have?


still get the same spikes on my SSD so dont think that will help think its b net related but not sure.

temp wise at 4.8ghz i get 40c atm with an ambient of 25c give or take. but im running water and honestly a 360 with push pull gentle phoons is pretty overkill for a cpu only loop







had to go 360 or it would look silly in my case though XD and push pull cos i had the fans anyway









realy need to reseat my cpu cooler though the thermal paste I used just wasn't that good.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13465295*
> Occasionally when i'm gaming, I have huge spikes and game pauses then fastforwards 2-3 seconds. most of the time this isn't too much of an issue as I've been lucky with when I lag but, it's still annoying. Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?
> 
> I reseated my cooler a couple days ago, temps are down @ around 55 in-game. 38 at idle. Previosuly aroudn 60. What do you guys have?


I have these problems too, and I have mine on my SSD.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yup I'm on SSD as well. I have the same problems. However I know it's caused by slow speed or lag spikes due to my cable company not giving enough upload bandwith to my house. Seems like a SSD won't help with the normal problems either.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13465295*
> Occasionally when i'm gaming, I have huge spikes and game pauses then fastforwards 2-3 seconds. most of the time this isn't too much of an issue as I've been lucky with when I lag but, it's still annoying. Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?
> 
> I reseated my cooler a couple days ago, temps are down @ around 55 in-game. 38 at idle. Previosuly aroudn 60. What do you guys have?


Temps mean nothing without ambient. What voltage are you on?


----------



## Nw0rb

Hey guys iv been lookin around and seems we dont have a custom game section. So that people that like to play custom games instead of league. fan is there anyway we can add that to this section ? So we can find people to play custom games with ?


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2517162568


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've been getting ghosts. FG is just stupid good, it makes no sense. I don't think it's a problem by itself, I think its more of a problem in good company. You don't need a lot of infestors to brutalize the Terran army. I still think Muta openings are far more of a pain in the ass though. A good Zerg player just picks me apart.

But honestly I struggle vs almost all Zerg builds. Zerg just has so many good options and Terran has to play flawless to beat them, or at least close. Almost all Terrans I know agree TvZ is by far the hardest match up.

Then you put Zerg on a big map and its just such a pain. I believe from the bottom of my heart its unbalanced, at least at my level. Pro level Terran seems awesome ( because they play them flawless ).

LZgamer even said he thinks Zerg late game vs Terran is ridiculously broken due to tier 3 + *investors*. He said that when we trained the other day.


yes, FG is really good against Bio, 2 FGs and all your marines are gone








@Bolded







I guess you meant infestors?







I think late game Z is tougher against Terran however, you also have to remember that BLs are expensive to get out and cost supply as well, so, its not like you can get 100 BLs at once(4 supply/BL I believe). Also, wasn't late game Z always tough in BW? I mean aside from not having the queen, mass hydras or mass cracklings were hard to deal with late game when fully upgraded and that doesn't include lurkers as well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Played doom on that new map. Really really fun map. No xel naga tower means, you need to be much more wary of putting units in position for scouting. Didn't realize till way later that I can spread creep on water!


I like the change of environment, dry environments with towers were getting old real fast. Hopefully, Blizzard will add this map to the pool in the next season









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Occasionally when i'm gaming, I have huge spikes and game pauses then fastforwards 2-3 seconds. most of the time this isn't too much of an issue as I've been lucky with when I lag but, it's still annoying. Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?

I reseated my cooler a couple days ago, temps are down @ around 55 in-game. 38 at idle. Previosuly aroudn 60. What do you guys have?


55C in game is not bad, I get around that, given my Q6600 isn't OC'd









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nw0rb*


Hey guys iv been lookin around and seems we dont have a custom game section. So that people that like to play custom games instead of league. fan is there anyway we can add that to this section ? So we can find people to play custom games with ?


I can probably add a section titled Custom Game Players and put player names+code under it if u like.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13470382*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2517162568


LOL you can't be QQing already?


----------



## Nw0rb

Bigfan that sounds fantastic. I like playing league but im not that good a macro/micro player... Its hard to find good team mates for custom team games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


LOL you can't be QQing already?


Why would I be QQing? I haven't even ran into them yet. In theory its bogus though. Did you see the thread on TL about the GM Protoss thinking the same thing? I am just disappointed in Blizzards balance team, it feels like they did that for PvP but didn't think about the consequences. This is a COMMON problem in the game. Remember the Reaper was over nerfed due to 2v2, and the Infestor was changed for ZvP but its arguably way better in ZvT.

In fact my pointing this out is anti-qq, because all these damn Protoss players QQed so hard they got these random buffs. They didn't realize that the Archon was working exactly as Blizzard had intended ( they said this many times, that they intended it to be a emergency unit, nothing more ). They changed the role of the unit because of whiny Protoss players.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


currently experimenting with spanishiwa style which seems to work pretty well but It feels kind of fragile when a mass marine ball comes and you have no gas and thus no banes need to play with that a bit more though see where it takes me.


I've been using that build a lot in ZvT and ZvP.

That build focuses on using your 4 queens/spines/unupgraded zerglings to defend off any early marine harass until you saturate your main/natural mineral lines.

It all depends on how good your scouting is. You overlord sac? Try get an overlord in a good position at his natural to see when he pushes out without letting it get sniped. Place a ling close outside of his base to see him pushing out with an early force so you don't get caught with your pants down and lose too many drones/queens.

Seems pretty similar to BW, how you scout for Terran aggression. Except creep tumors instead of creep colony.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


I do think that you need to keep zerg on the back foot, if you haven't seriously hurt them by the time they get to hive and have mass expanded etc then your going to be in serious trouble, but i would say zerg pay for that by having to either sacrifice econ or map control in the early/early mid game.

my experience is as terran if i keep up heavy pressure in the early game zerg mostly end up over commuting on units and then a strong tank timing push rolls him over. If i ever try and sit back a little and tech then he just creams me









(i play random btw so im kind of nooby at all of them







)


Now that I think about it... it's not even a new concept. Brood War was the same way in TvZ. You REALLY did not want Zerg to get 4 bases or a pro zerg would rape your face in unless you were Flash who would camp his bases with crapload of siege tanks and wait for the ultralisk choo-choo train to come and try and finish you off. Hive tech zerg will always be dangerous.


----------



## Rpg2

All the Terrans QQing on TL are driving me mad. They all act as if their Thors will have maxed energy going into fights, so they lose 200 HP from feedback guaranteed on the spot, presuming they have no Ghosts to EMP HT or their own Thors, and that suddenly the Thor nerf makes TvP super imba in favor of Protoss. All on top of perfect micro from the Protoss player using HTs, which isn't too likely.

Absolutely ridiculous. Cloaked ghosts (flanking) are a good counter, throw down two emps on the clumped up HTs and suddenly no shields or energy for HT or feedback.


----------



## Ruckol1

lol @ justin.tv crashing nasl over and over


----------



## yang88she

anyone having issues w/ patch 1.3.3? I keep getting to 70% and it just closes =(


----------



## poroboszcz

I almost feel sorry for Artosis. It was funny how he didn't do anything the commentators predicted him to do. Idra acted professionally though calling him a "non-standard player" (totally random BOs) with "interesting decision making" (getting 2 expos and tech without any units, running GW units into ling hydra on creep). I seriously wonder how is he even in Masters league.


----------



## onoz

Anyone have epic SC2 4v4 replays they can send to me? I'm trying to test SC2 on my dm1z, but I haven't been able to play any 4v4 games where there are epic battles with a large number of units. It's always either my team is getting rolled, or my team is doing the rolling







. Thanks!


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I want a SSD too so bad.










Me too! Would be nice for Starcraft, at least to get the games to load quicker and run more reliably.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Wondering if I should get an SSD; Can anyone who made the switch comment on performance changes?


for SC2 alone it's a waste in my opinion, especially since you have to wait for everyone else to load...


----------



## ThumperSD

SC2 takes about 5secs to load up to the login screen with my SSD. Not sure how much improvement I get from loading maps.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


for SC2 alone it's a waste in my opinion, especially since you have to wait for everyone else to load...


True, but I've had times where my opponent either A) loads in the same amount of time or B) their loading finishes before mine







Also I love to watch a lot of replays so I spend less time waiting in between each replay I review. Also who doesn't love loading the game instantly? I remember that crap took forever on my old laptop. I dreaded logging into SC2 before...
_____________
I don't know why Terran players are crying about TvP. I was watching Hashe's stream and he was winning games against Protoss players using mass marine pressure builds and winning a late game with your standard Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Viking build, but he was maintaining 2-3 ghosts the whole game and even got a successful nuke off. Lot of good EMPs were used when I watched.








_____________

Oh yeah and I love using mutas in ZvT. Nothing like massing up a group of mutas and frustrating the Terran into stimming all of his marines only to keep doing hit and run attacks on his main/natural until he pushes out in an "all-in" manner where he gets annihilated by my banelings waiting for him haha. Also in one game the guy built turrets, but it was too late I already had a **** ton of mutas to quickly take the turrets out. He would of needed Thors, but I'd just "magic box" over them and take them giant turds out too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I don't know why Terran players are crying about TvP. I was watching Hashe's stream and he was winning games against Protoss players using mass marine pressure builds and winning a late game with your standard Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Viking build, but he was maintaining 2-3 ghosts the whole game and even got a successful nuke off. Lot of good EMPs were used when I watched.








.


Of course its still very winnable, but it was fine before, maybe even slightly P favored late late game, I think we are just pointing out every change was completely not needed, and makes it even more P favored. Can we still win it? Of course. It's not that bad, but still it would be like Marauders getting a buff out of the blue. Not to mention I think the sentry build time makes up for the warp gate delay quite well, so the old TvP early game T advantage is slowly fading out. That was the only thing we had to keep things even all game.

Still, it just needs to be played to really tell, but what I'm trying to say don't be surprised if it is imbalanced.


----------



## Sainesk

I've been working on the campaign achievs I missed, haven't played much with the latest update, are Thors close to useless again now in TvP in 1.3.3?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I've been working on the campaign achievs I missed, haven't played much with the latest update, are Thors close to useless again now in TvP in 1.3.3?











Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Of course its still very winnable, but it was fine before, maybe even slightly P favored late late game, I think we are just pointing out every change was completely not needed, and makes it even more P favored. Can we still win it? Of course. It's not that bad, but still it would be like Marauders getting a buff out of the blue. Not to mention I think the sentry build time makes up for the warp gate delay quite well, so the old TvP early game T advantage is slowly fading out. That was the only thing we had to keep things even all game.

Still, it just needs to be played to really tell, but what I'm trying to say don't be surprised if it is imbalanced.


A little rant:

You know what I think the issue is? Wrapgates. With T/Z, you will need to wait for your units to be made, with WG you can instantly make more units, so, imagine when you and your T opponent have a big fight. You are both even and lose a lot of units and you retreat, wrap in some units which depend on # of WGs and resources, so, you can easily wrap in 20 units(late game where u have a lot of bases+WGs). Then you can attack your opponent again and take out some structures, prevent his units from grouping together by picking them off as they exit the rax, etc.... 
I've had games as T, where I'll take out my opponent's army but then he'll just wrap in more, attack my units before I can get some reinforcement then just plow through my base :/
Having said all that, I don't think WG is OP but considering the faster reinforcements, there is no benefit of going gateways over WG so the majority go for WGs. I was hoping this latest patch will give an advantage to anyone who goes gateways but unfortunately nothing beneficial(aside from sentry train time)









I still don't understand this whole commotion over the thor. The thor used to have energy before patch 1.1 like the corruptor. Why Blizzard would remove and then re-add the energy is beyond me, but, as mentioned, I think most P players would prefer to storm over feedback some thors. Yes, it might take out xxx hp from the thors, but, if u stormed you could've taken out xxx marines or done xxx damage which would be more beneficial when you engage the army. My thoughts on the subject


----------



## DoomDash

Yes but one Templar can take up to 800 HP off 4 thors in one second if they have maxed energy. Obviously that situation will be uncommon, but that's still way too good for one templar IMO. It will come down to emping your own Thor's, but that's just such a silly thing required to do to make Thor's useful.

and yes warp gate was such a poorly designed mechanic, and it will be very very hard to really make this game truly balanced because of it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes but one Templar can take up to 800 HP off 4 thors in one second if they have maxed energy. Obviously that situation will be uncommon, but that's still way too good for one templar IMO. It will come down to emping your own Thor's, but that's just such a silly thing required to do to make Thor's useful.

and yes warp gate was such a poorly designed mechanic, and it will be very very hard to really make this game truly balanced because of it.


While I agree with you, I think in the end, you'll have to get the emp off first or emp your own thors twice before engaging if you are worried about feedback. 
As for WG, glad we agree on something







For the record, I think its a cool mechanic and I don't have a crazy issue with it but balancing around that is gonna be hell. I think it would've been better had they increased zealot, stalker, sentry, ht and dt build time for WGs so that gateways provide an advantage that you can get units out faster than WG thus giving a defender's advantage


----------



## BountyHead

Im a terrible silver league zerg player , my ZvP and ZvZ are fine but i keep losing TvZ, the most common build order seems to be AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. I build baneling and mutas then they build 2 thors and 3 seige tanks, ive even been experimenting with baneling drops. I need to get better at this game lol


----------



## DoomDash

You don't even need baneling drops. Just make more sling/bane. Pick off tanks with muta, then right click and you win.

BigFan used to feel the same way until he realized the power of the baneling/sling.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't even need baneling drops. Just make more sling/bane. Pick off tanks with muta, then right click and you win.

BigFan used to feel the same way until he realized the power of the baneling/sling.


I wish it was that easy stimed marine eat up the mutas, heck 2 thors behind the seige line , and with like 8 barracks with reactors eats up my 4 base worth of larva  i think i need to work on my creep spread that is pretty abysmal atm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You don't even need baneling drops. Just make more sling/bane. Pick off tanks with muta, then right click and you win.

BigFan used to feel the same way until he realized the power of the baneling/sling.


I've never baneling dropped anyone before







I have some trouble with ZvsT, mainly when they go for thors since I love mutas and with thors, it adds that extra amount of caution in muta play. In terms of going against MMM, as doom mentioned, all you need are slings+banes. I used to get mowed down by MMM until I tried that combo. Send in the slings then the banes right after, so, you get a surround and prevent a retreat. Target the marines with banes and any marauders nearby will take damage due to splash.
When I first started using this combo, I would make a lot of slings+banes since I wasn't positive how much was enough, but, now I only make what is required, much easier on the gas







As for creep spread, work on that pronto! Creep spread is very important because essentially it gives you vision so you can see when they move out and engage before the tanks are seiged, etc.... basically catch the opponent offguard. Get a queen per hatchery for injecting and another queen for spreading creep tumours. Keep a sling at towers, outside opponent base to see when they move out/exp and poke the front to see what they are doing. Send an OL from the back to find out their gameplan and adjust from there. GL









Edit: actually, I did bane drop someone in a custom, I believe it was an OCN member but you don't need bane drops in silver at all. Just focus on macroing, learning when to drone versus making units(I like to make some units after I get a couple of drones on my exp and keep getting some, maybe 70% drones, 30% units), spreading creep, injecting and scouting. Just practice, practice and practice!


----------



## CravinR1

I'm getting destroyed by mass marines/marauders ............. can't build fast enough to stop them


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I've never baneling dropped anyone before







I have some trouble with ZvsT, mainly when they go for thors since I love mutas and with thors, it adds that extra amount of caution in muta play. In terms of going against MMM, as doom mentioned, all you need are slings+banes. I used to get mowed down by MMM until I tried that combo. Send in the slings then the banes right after, so, you get a surround and prevent a retreat. Target the marines with banes and any marauders nearby will take damage due to splash.
When I first started using this combo, I would make a lot of slings+banes since I wasn't positive how much was enough, but, now I only make what is required, much easier on the gas







As for creep spread, work on that pronto! Creep spread is very important because essentially it gives you vision so you can see when they move out and engage before the tanks are seiged, etc.... basically catch the opponent offguard. Get a queen per hatchery for injecting and another queen for spreading creep tumours. Keep a sling at towers, outside opponent base to see when they move out/exp and poke the front to see what they are doing. Send an OL from the back to find out their gameplan and adjust from there. GL










I do most of that just poorly X-P , i dont really care how much I lose i have more fun with zerg. First few months of the game i was a high plat terran but i got bored with it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I'm getting destroyed by mass marines/marauders ............. can't build fast enough to stop them


Yup I think that comes down to just getting your macro up on 3-4 hatches with good inject timing it shouldnt be so bad, but then again the last game it said i built 779 units terran built 300+ lol i got face rolled by the infamous hold down "A" terran build


----------



## l337sft

Does anyone want to explain the achievement that requires you to " Warp in a zealot as zerg. "?


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


Does anyone want to explain the achievement that requires you to " Warp in a zealot as zerg. "?


mind control a probe built nexus etc


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


I wish it was that easy stimed marine eat up the mutas, heck 2 thors behind the seige line , and with like 8 barracks with reactors eats up my 4 base worth of larva  i think i need to work on my creep spread that is pretty abysmal atm


Snipe the tanks. I really love muta play in ZvT because you can pick off so much and cause Terran so much grief. This is what jediwin does to me, and this is what I do to BigFan when I play Z vs his T. I rarely even lose a muta and I kill so much. When he gets Thor's I just find them alone and magic box.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Snipe the tanks. I really love muta play in ZvT because you can pick off so much and cause Terran so much grief. This is what jediwin does to me, and this is what I do to BigFan when I play Z vs his T. I rarely even lose a muta and I kill so much. When he gets Thor's I just find them alone and magic box.


While I agree and I do the same to all of my opponents online whether they are T/P/Z, to be fair, I think I only played your Z as T several times over the past couple of months but I do recall that time where I would try to move out and you would come back in and do some harass causing me to retreat XD

BTW, I'll make sure your mutas don't give me as much of an issue next time we have a TvsZ


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


mind control a probe built nexus etc


Doesnt work, figured it out. Gotta play a 2v2, as zerg and have your team mate as protoss and have him leave the game or give you control. Viola! Achievement unlocked.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


While I agree and I do the same to all of my opponents online whether they are T/P/Z, to be fair, I think I only played your Z as T several times over the past couple of months but I do recall that time where I would try to move out and you would come back in and do some harass causing me to retreat XD

BTW, I'll make sure your mutas don't give me as much of an issue next time we have a TvsZ










We played at least 5 recently. You don't remember being picked apart by muta's every time?

Also I doubt you'll be able to even get close to stopping my muta harass. I will pick you apart. I will show you why Zerg is so damn crazy in that Mu.


----------



## DoomDash

Also:










TvT up from 28% 1.5 weeks ago.
TvZ up from 28% 1.5 weeks ago.
TvP down from 80% 1.5 weeks ago.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


Doesnt work, figured it out. Gotta play a 2v2, as zerg and have your team mate as protoss and have him leave the game or give you control. Viola! Achievement unlocked.


Thats how I got it mind controlled a probe


----------



## PixelFreakz

4v4 is by far the easiest way to get the zerglot achievement.. Theres almost always a toss on your team.


----------



## BigFan

QUOTE=DoomDash;13474768]We played at least 5 recently. You don't remember being picked apart by muta's every time?

Also I doubt you'll be able to even get close to stopping my muta harass. I will pick you apart. I will show you why Zerg is so damn crazy in that Mu.[/QUOTE]
Recently being 2 weeks ago?







I do recall on ST and another map, maybe shakuras as well but your muta harass is only so annoying because I usually allow you to add more by not harassing and have bad positioning









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also:










TvT up from 28% 1.5 weeks ago.
TvZ up from 28% 1.5 weeks ago.
TvP down from 80% 1.5 weeks ago.


Nice, 15% increase in TvsZ


----------



## DoomDash

We played on Shak, we played on Alter quite a few times, I played you on Scrap, I played you on Incarceration Zone, ect ect. 1 week ago or so yea.

It doesn't matter what you do muta's will pick you apart. All I have to do right click my stuff around its fun.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The increase is prolly from painuser's coaching. He made some good points there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13476346*
> The increase is prolly from *lzgamer*'s coaching. He made some good points there.


Fixed. Yes, LZGamer and Jediwin helped a lot. I wish I would have had the first hour of LZGamer recorded though.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DoomDash

Now that ghosts are cheaper gas, and bio is not as good in 1.3.3, I am working on this style.



I am really bad at it right now, so yes I know I played a lot of it very sloppy.

Most notable things I need to work on :

- Knowing when to expand
- Better scouting
- Cloak for ghosts
- better spreading ( I got lucky this guy didn't have storm )
- Keep up on upgrades, I had all the structures but forgot

So yeah it's quite rough atm. I will make it work though.

PS: I'm also slowly working in more Ghosts in TvZ as well.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'll check that out. I'm currently watching as much vod as possible in the TvP match up. I hate you terrans so much...


----------



## DoomDash

How can you hate Terran ? That's like hating Batman, the best superhero.


----------



## yks

Batman's a punk, just a rich boy with some ninja training and fancy gadgets from exploiting and embezzling money from his own company.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13478169*
> Batman's a punk, just a rich boy with some ninja training and fancy gadgets from exploiting and embezzling money from his own company.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOZVp9NFhQE[/ame]


I think I know who Protoss would be... the Joker because they are a huge joke!


----------



## Lazorbeam

DoomDash, I read your post on the bnet forums about archons. I know you said protoss players only, but I'm not here to QQ or call anyone a QQer. I played 10 matches or so and experimented with archons, didn't win a single game against terran. I _think_ they may have a place in PvP, though.

The first match I played went into a 3-base macro game. I added DT tech to 6-gate 2-robo and pumped out some DT + turned them into archons. In a ~150 food vs ~150 food fight, I'd like to say that the archons held their own, but I think they landed 1-2 shots off before being vaporized. Later on I intercepted a rauder drop with 2 archons; they were stim kited to death.

Second game was similar but I just went with the usual 6 WG -> 2 robo -> HT tech. A single storm causes far more damage than an archon will before it dies.

Not saying archons are bad, just that other units are a better investment. 250+ gas is a HUGE investment, I'd much rather have 1.25 colossi or 2 HTs. Nonetheless, archons remain a pretty good backup unit when DTs/HTs are not situationally viable.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13478559*
> DoomDash, I read your post on the bnet forums about archons. I know you said protoss players only, but I'm not here to QQ or call anyone a QQer. I played 10 matches or so and experimented with archons, didn't win a single game against terran. I _think_ they may have a place in PvP, though.
> 
> The first match I played went into a 3-base macro game. I added DT tech to 6-gate 2-robo and pumped out some DT + turned them into archons. In a ~150 food vs ~150 food fight, I'd like to say that the archons held their own, but I think they landed 1-2 shots off before being vaporized. Later on I intercepted a rauder drop with 2 archons; they were stim kited to death.
> 
> Second game was similar but I just went with the usual 6 WG -> 2 robo -> HT tech. A single storm causes far more damage than an archon will before it dies.
> 
> Not saying archons are bad, just that other units are a better investment. 250+ gas is a HUGE investment, I'd much rather have 1.25 colossi or 2 HTs. Nonetheless, archons remain a pretty good backup unit when DTs/HTs are not situationally viable.


You are miss understanding me I think. I'm not saying people should go archons on purpose, I'm saying they may be too good in the same situations they were used in pre-patch. Basically after all the storms go off / the battle is almost finished. I just think in that moment when Terran may have a little bit left he will end up losing it all now. Keeping units alive at the end of the battle is more important for Terran IMO because of the warp in mechanic for Protoss.

Again, I don't know if it's imba or anything, more or less just thinking about it. I don't want anything changed unless the pros really tell us its broken ( on both sides ). Just theory crafting.

Anyway I'm trying new style, I think bio is on its way out anyway because these new double forge or fast +3 armor builds are SOOOO good vs bio.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Hey guys! Silver player here. Anyone up for a quick match and/or give me some pointers? I'm still learning, but I'm a budding Terran player!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13478169*
> Batman's a punk, just a rich boy with some ninja training and fancy gadgets from exploiting and embezzling money from his own company.


That's just...

jealousy.


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221896

I like this read. And it makes me interested to see what happens when August comes around. And if something does happen, give or take a couple months of training,early 2012 should be bombbbbbbb.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13478774*
> That's just...
> 
> jealousy.


To be a super-hero, you have to have super-powers.

And you know what Batman's super-power is? Stealing money.

You're not suppose to teach kids how to embezzle money!


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13479166*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221896
> 
> I like this read. And it makes me interested to see what happens when August comes around. And if something does happen, give or take a couple months of training,early 2012 should be bombbbbbbb.


That was interesting. What I'm wondering though, is that once those players make the switch, will the skill cap of SC2 be reached? Will there be no point because these amazing players just won't be able to play the game any faster? I've watched some SC games, there's so much crap going on that SC2 seems slow in comparison, and already I've noticed a lot of players seem to rarely make mistakes in pro games- would the extra speed/skill really matter? MarineKing can already split marines like a bomb going off, can anyone really make it more pronounced? Phoenix harass can be performed without losing a single phoenix, will it get better? The timings are already at the point where a player in diamond has the exact same amount of units a pro would at the exact same time (they might not use them as effectively though), so BOs and macro isn't even really an issue. I just don't see where these super-awesome-mega-gosu players can improve.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13478073*
> How can you hate Terran ? That's like hating Batman, the best superhero.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Just reserving a spot on page 1337







.


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## poroboszcz

I've just passed the last exam this term and finally will have some time to play.









Starting after tomorrow, as tomorrow I'll probably have to much of a hangover.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah that's right, how dare you start your break sober.


----------



## Allenssmart

patch 1.3.3 has finally gone through. cya terran. sry doom







if only I had the skill to play terran.







AIUR HERE I COME


----------



## ricklen

Yea Warp Gate tech got a pretty hard nerf









page 1337 pretty epic btw


----------



## Alex132

13370 post


----------



## Sainesk

any new news on HOTS yet? and does anyone know if it'll be $60 when it comes out?

I just stole this spot









edit: nooooooooo, 1338, fail


----------



## doritos93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Forcewater*


Could anyone link me to a game where a Zerg player successfully went infestor heavy recently? I've been searching, but I haven't yet found anything. I want to try Day[9]'s build stealing techniques










I'm looking for the same thing. I'm fairly noob at SC2 but I'd like to think that I was pretty good in SC1. I remember the days of mass hydras + plague = gg, but the infestors don't really have the same effect. They have such a short range, they almost always die when casting fungal growth.

So yeah.


----------



## the.FBI

Sooooo excited, only 6 days of high school left and then its sc2 time, gonna be grandmaster s3 hopefully.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


That was interesting. What I'm wondering though, is that once those players make the switch, will the skill cap of SC2 be reached? Will there be no point because these amazing players just won't be able to play the game any faster? I've watched some SC games, there's so much crap going on that SC2 seems slow in comparison, and already I've noticed a lot of players seem to rarely make mistakes in pro games- would the extra speed/skill really matter? MarineKing can already split marines like a bomb going off, can anyone really make it more pronounced? Phoenix harass can be performed without losing a single phoenix, will it get better? The timings are already at the point where a player in diamond has the exact same amount of units a pro would at the exact same time (they might not use them as effectively though), so BOs and macro isn't even really an issue. I just don't see where these super-awesome-mega-gosu players can improve.


Interesting read to some extent but I dont know enough about the bw scene to say wether i think its accurate or not to me it seems like a load of hot air and thoery same as all the wc3 players are going to pwn at sc2 stuff that was floating around, have any of them made a final? nope thought not.

No doubt some of the God players like JD and Flash would be huge forces to be reconed with in sc2 but I think that those guys could pick up any game and be a force to be reconed with they are just wired that way, nothing to do with thier BW back ground.

I certainly do not think we are anywhere near the skill cap for sc2 not even close, Build orders and macro in and of themselve are pretty easy to just copy thats not where the skill cap comes in the skill cap is how many other things you can keep track of while still executing that perfectly and microing your army + drops + counter his drop all at the same time


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We played on Shak, we played on Alter quite a few times, I played you on Scrap, I played you on Incarceration Zone, ect ect. 1 week ago or so yea.

It doesn't matter what you do muta's will pick you apart. All I have to do right click my stuff around its fun.


Yes, but, that's assuming I allow you to keep making them and not harass at which point it'll be impossible to deal with 30+ mutas without thors+marines and catching you offguard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


That was interesting. What I'm wondering though, is that once those players make the switch, will the skill cap of SC2 be reached? Will there be no point because these amazing players just won't be able to play the game any faster? I've watched some SC games, there's so much crap going on that SC2 seems slow in comparison, and already I've noticed a lot of players seem to rarely make mistakes in pro games- would the extra speed/skill really matter? MarineKing can already split marines like a bomb going off, can anyone really make it more pronounced? Phoenix harass can be performed without losing a single phoenix, will it get better? The timings are already at the point where a player in diamond has the exact same amount of units a pro would at the exact same time (they might not use them as effectively though), so BOs and macro isn't even really an issue. I just don't see where these super-awesome-mega-gosu players can improve.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


I certainly do not think we are anywhere near the skill cap for sc2 not even close, Build orders and macro in and of themselve are pretty easy to just copy thats not where the skill cap comes in the skill cap is *how many other things you can keep track of while still executing that perfectly and microing your army + drops + counter his drop all at the same time







*


An interesting read, bolded part answers the big question of skill cap. How much multitasking(brain can't really multitask, just move back and forth quickly) are you capable of? Can you do several drops all the while macroing in your base and micro the different drops? Would make for an awesome game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, but, that's assuming I allow you to keep making them and not harass at which point it'll be impossible to deal with 30+ mutas without thors+marines and catching you offguard.


trololol.


----------



## HaVoK C89

Man...Idk what I'm doing wrong but I cannot win a game online to save my life haha.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

oh lol...

Is it going to be Naniwa vs TZain this sat?


----------



## godofdeath

where can you watch some live 4v4 with commentary by the player?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


where can you watch some live 4v4 with commentary by the player?


Why would you want to watch 4v4?


----------



## godofdeath

b/c i want to and got bored of watching 1v1


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


b/c i want to and got bored of watching 1v1


I don't know anyone who streams 4v4's, since they are terrible







.


----------



## KittensMewMew

My 4v4 experience:

Me: rush or tech?
P2: rush
P3: rush
P4: I'M MAKING VOIDRAYS DERP
Me: Please don't
P4: HARHAR VOIDRAYS RULE
Me: Please? Look, I've already committed to 3 barracks, no gas and constant marines so far and you are still at the point where you can make a 4-gate- oh. That's a Stargate now isn't it.
P4: WHY WE LOSE?

I had a game where the person who said we should have a 6minute timing push went ahead and built 20 or so zerglings, then a lair, then an infestation pit, then a hive for some reason. He actually had a hive at the 8 minute mark on 1 base. I couldn't understand it.


----------



## yks

FOUR VEEE FOUR, is no joke guise


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Even well casted 4v4s like from husky are terrible.

Doom that TvP replay you posted was pretty bad. 70 food at the 10 minute mark on two bases? I couldn't believe what I was seeing; Nobody making units quickly, no constant worker production.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Even well casted 4v4s like from husky are terrible.

Doom that TvP replay you posted was pretty bad. 70 food at the 10 minute mark on two bases? I couldn't believe what I was seeing; Nobody making units quickly, no constant worker production.


Yep, not sure when to expand. Played it pretty bad. He played it worse tho. His counter to siege tanks was gateway units ( with no storm mind you ) and 2 immortals.

Still, that's what I plan on doing. I need to figure out when I can take my 3rd, I feel so unsafe with this style still. Plus you gotta get so much different tech... arg. I will make it work though







.

If I was playing standard I probably would have been on 4-5 base by that point lol.

Also I had pretty constant SCV',s until fully sat on 3 base are you talking about him?


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


We played at least 5 recently. You don't remember being picked apart by muta's every time?

Also I doubt you'll be able to even get close to stopping my muta harass. I will pick you apart. I will show you why Zerg is so damn crazy in that Mu.


I just dookied on some Terran that tried to harass me with cloaked banshees and blue flame hellions. He had a crapload of turrets and I still killed him with mutas... hahaha

I did all of this on my lunch break. Now I'm back at work laughing at how funny it is watching a Terran scramble to build up an appropriate defense for mutas only for me to fly to the next base and start air-humping it. ROFL

By the time they clear up the mutas. All the tanks are sniped and I'm sending in a 1000 zerglings/banelings and he leaves the game.
__________________________________________________ _________________
*EDIT*

How the hell do you beat Protoss on Delta Quadrant as Zerg!? I play random and I play on all the maps... and for some reason I hate that map so much as Zerg.

He walled in his main with gateway/core and zealot on hold position followed by sentries like a normal protoss player would do. So I sacced an overlord to see what he was building in his main. He went 1 gate-> robo facility to fast robo bay. I was like *** his colossi came out so quickly. He got an easy 2nd base because all he had to do was destroy the destructible rocks and know that I would need drops or air units to attack his bases. I had no got damn time to get corruptors for the Colossi because they came out so fast in the game. I only had roaches, burrow, and burrow upgrade. Zerglings obviously were getting raped by the colossi and he had enough sentries/stalkers to make my roaches have a headache. So yeah I lost that game... >.<

Is Protoss favored on that map or what against Zerg?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I just dookied on some Terran that tried to harass me with cloaked banshees and blue flame hellions. He had a crapload of turrets and I still killed him with mutas... hahaha

I did all of this on my lunch break. Now I'm back at work laughing at how funny it is watching a Terran scramble to build up an appropriate defense for mutas only for me to fly to the next base and start air-humping it. ROFL

By the time they clear up the mutas. All the tanks are sniped and I'm sending in a 1000 zerglings/banelings and he leaves the game.


Sounds like ZvT







.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


*EDIT*

How the hell do you beat Protoss on Delta Quadrant as Zerg!? I play random and I play on all the maps... and for some reason I hate that map so much as Zerg.

He walled in his main with gateway/core and zealot on hold position followed by sentries like a normal protoss player would do. So I sacced an overlord to see what he was building in his main. He went 1 gate-> robo facility to fast robo bay. I was like *** his colossi came out so quickly. He got an easy 2nd base because all he had to do was destroy the destructible rocks and know that I would need drops or air units to attack his bases. I had no got damn time to get corruptors for the Colossi because they came out so fast in the game. I only had roaches, burrow, and burrow upgrade. Zerglings obviously were getting raped by the colossi and he had enough sentries/stalkers to make my roaches have a headache. So yeah I lost that game... >.<

Is Protoss favored on that map or what against Zerg?


Delta is just not good for Zerg in general.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


trololol.










I mostly lack experience in TvsZ since I'm working on my macro atm









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Delta is just not good for Zerg in general.


True, given I just lost a PvsZ on it. Not sure why I never got colossi and then got run over by hydras+roaches+ultras XD


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=222450

Notable's:

Quote:



*Nestea, you will be the first zerg in 2 finals.*
(Nestea) - I am a bit worried. I am not sure if Inca can matchup to my level of play&#8230; I think he may be an opponent too easy for the finals. I guess I can just think my finals already happened against sC.

*-You will be playing after the 1.3.3 patch.*
(Nestea) - I have been practicing on the North American server with the new patch, so I am not that worried. I don't think the zerg vs protoss matchup has changed that much with the new patch. The sentry is faster to come out now, but the warp gate tech is slower so zerg may have a bit of an easier time in the early game. Protoss is good race in the late game, but since Inca is such a weak player, it probably won't matter.

*-Inca doesn't have much of a record against zergs, has it been difficult for you to study his style since he has such a few games against them?*
(Nestea) - They say that Inca was a strong player back in the beta, but I wasn't playing back then. But I don't think I will really need to particularly study him. What the protoss is capable of doing has changed somewhat since then, so now as long as I keep a lookout I should be able to stop whatever shenanigans he pulls. If he tries some obvious play, he will be sent home packing with a 2nd place finish.

*-What do you think about the map balance?*
(Inca) - Against good players, I don't think protoss are favored at all on these maps. Every time I read or listen to Nestea's interviews, I always wonder why he feigns weakness. There are a variety of strategies and the data suggests that zergs are definitely not weak on these maps. If there are any problems, it is the fault of the zerg players not the map balance.

*-There are a lot of complaints among the regular zerg user base.*
(Nestea) - To be honest, to play protoss is ridiculously simple. I know I have qqed plenty before, but in the teamhouse practice, I hardly lose to them. I don't know why we (as a race) are losing to them so much. Maybe Inca will show me some of those reasons.


ectect


----------



## yks

(**Translator Note, Most of this is smacktalk so please don't debate too much about balance)


----------



## CravinR1

I did a few 1v1 tonight

..... pvz I get stomped all over. Either the zerg 6 gates and is in my base before I can block off or they mass up and decimate what I throw at them

Also why did someone get banned for this post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221661


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13486455*
> Also why did someone get banned for this post
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221661


Dragom was just temp banned for 30 days by EvilTeletubby.

That account was created on 2010-12-31 09:59:44 and had 52 posts.

Reason: Banned previously for making stupid OP's, and you do it again?


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2R7ZRC48yc[/ame]

Dude, SeleCt is funny as ****. I never knew.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13485823*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222450
> 
> Notable's:
> 
> ectect


Such an awesome interview. Love the smacktalk by Nestea


----------



## DoomDash

I am loving mech ghost in TvZ. This is the opener LZGamer taught me:



If you want a little write up on what he taught me you can go here ( mech was my own thing, he generally goes standard marine/tank/medivac after the opener ).

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=1808.0

Canadian Internet:


----------



## DoomDash

omg I am listening to qxc train people, and they are like the biggest idiots ever. This current one is bronze, and he goes 4 rax 1 fact off one base in every match up. qxc was like, do you want to learn a build they use at pro level? He wasn't sure.....

http://www.justin.tv/fxoqxc


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13487962*
> omg I am listening to qxc train people, and they are like the biggest idiots ever. This current one is bronze, and he goes 4 rax 1 fact off one base in every match up. qxc was like, do you want to learn a build they use at pro level? He wasn't sure.....
> 
> http://www.justin.tv/fxoqxc


i watched that too...made me lol so hard when qxc said build 8 Racks the guys goes but i dont want to....qxc: ok that's 5 you need 3 more than, followed shortly by ok that's 9 your an overachiever i like that.

shame the masters guy after didnt want it streamed :'(


----------



## DoomDash

I was a HUGE Warhawk fan on PS3, and now the sequel is coming out... well kinda. But they mention SCII in this video lol:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1Ee7awZes[/ame]

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/140933#blog
Quote:


> Straight from the bridge of the Hyperion we bring you the latest situation report for StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. In this edition, we'll be discussing some of the most notable changes in the recently released patch 1.3.3 *and shedding some more light on our design philosophy and the thinking behind this update.
> 
> Balance Changes
> 
> Protoss
> 
> Archons
> Now a massive unit.
> Range increased from 2 to 3.
> After receiving and reviewing a lot of solid feedback about the archon from the StarCraft II community, we came to the agreement that having archons break Force Fields would increase strategic variety in protoss-vs.-protoss matchups. We were slightly worried that strategies such as mass Charge zealots plus archons would be too difficult to stop with only ground units, but in testing this on the PTR, we found that the relationship between the zealot- and archon-based strategies vs. the more standard robo-tech builds were proving to be fun.
> 
> Archons have generally been a slightly weak unit for their cost. This was a conscious design decision that we made since we wanted Morph to Archon to be a "recycle" ability. However, due to the size of the archon, we felt an increase in attack range was necessary so that the unit can get attacks in more easily, especially on the defensive.
> 
> Cybernetics Core
> Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 160.
> Gateway
> Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
> Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.
> Pylon
> Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.
> These three changes were made specifically to address the 4-gateway issue. The slight increase in Warp Gate research time should only really affect early-game strategies such as the 4-gate all-in. It was a challenge to find a research time high enough to achieve this goal without affecting other, non-early game strategies, but we eventually settled on 160. Regarding the sentry, it's the only tier-1 unit that's rarely used on the offensive in PvP 4-gate all-ins. However, they're almost always used on the defensive, so buffing this unit was the way to go in order to make defending easier.
> 
> The pylon power radius reduction will help the defending player take them out easier from above ramps, as well as make it so there are limited spots below cliffs where the opponent can build them in order to offensively warp in above. On the flip side, because protoss bases generally have plenty of pylon power, we're not too worried about this affecting the defensive side too much -- though players might need to pay more attention to their base layouts.
> 
> On top of these changes, we're also looking into slightly changing how vision works on ramps so that if you use Force Field on your ramp just right, the opposing protoss player will not be able to spawn above your ramp or Blink stalkers up past a perfectly positioned Force Field. We will continue to monitor how the changes we made in 1.3.3 are working out before making the final call.
> 
> We hope these changes will resolve the 4-gate issue in PvP.
> 
> Terran
> 
> Bunker
> Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
> This change was one of the most frequently requested by the community, and players made a lot of valid arguments as to why this change was necessary. We've seen too many bunker rushes vs. zerg, and we felt that adjusting the salvage return rate would be a positive change. Players will also have to think about mineral loss before constructing multiple bunkers on the defensive, which also feels right.
> 
> Ghost
> Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100
> This cost change was a strategic, high-level change. We wanted ghosts to have a place in as many of the existing unit compositions out there as possible. For example: we wanted at least a few ghosts to come into play with the standard armies we currently see in each matchup. We feel ghost EMP is a vital tool at the highest skill levels, and we didn't like how players had to choose between ghosts or something else. Therefore, we decided to keep the total costs the same while decreasing the gas cost so that they can more easily be added to whichever army terran players are currently using.
> 
> We realize having to manage so many units (including the ghost) can be difficult for many players, but at the same time we felt ghosts are only really vital at the highest skill levels because their counter-units are also micro-intensive.
> 
> Thor
> Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
> 250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).
> We generally haven't reverted changes in the past, but at the same time, we're not afraid to revert changes when we feel that we've made a mistake. Some rare strategies involve mass numbers of Thors using 250mm Strike Cannons to lock down protoss, leaving them with few options for response. While these situations are rare, and the strategies aren't necessarily overpowered, there were still a few things we didn't like.
> 
> First, we definitely don't like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don't want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible.
> 
> Second, we felt counter relationships were turning too heavily. The nature of lockdown abilities in general is that they have the potential to heavily turn the tide of battle against armies that would otherwise counter your units. Most of these abilities, especially for an ability as strong as this one, have to be fairly difficult to bring out and easier to counter. We feel that having the additional counters of EMP/Feedback to the Strike Cannons ability is better so that we don't get into degenerating situations where the opponent is stuck without recourse.
> 
> Zerg
> 
> Infestor
> Speed decreased from 2.5 to 2.25.
> We like how infestors have been functioning across the board since the last patch. We feel the previous infestor buffs heavily contributed to making matchups solid, especially at the higher skill levels.
> 
> However, it was slightly problematic in some scenarios where infestors were getting away too easily. Even when it was off of creep, the infestor was slightly faster than normal units -- and on creep, it was considerably faster. We decided to give infestors normal movement speed off of creep to make it easier to catch up to them and kill them.
> 
> Spore Crawler
> Root time decreased from 12 to 6.
> Air-based strategies vs. zerg are common due to zerg anti-air units coming out later than other races. Because of this, it actually makes sense for spore crawlers to be more flexible than other races' anti-air structures. If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. However, what we didn't like was when zerg players still suffered considerable damage from void rays, phoenixes, and banshees, despite being prepared with spore crawlers that were slightly out of position. We decided to make this change so that it's somewhat easier to fend off these attacks, especially when you already have some spore crawlers in play.
> 
> As a side note, we don't feel the same way about spine crawlers, as there are being plenty of other anti-ground units zerg players can use along with the spine crawlers from the beginning of the game.
> 
> ************
> 
> As always, we will continue to listen to players' discussions, and we welcome your constructive feedback. As with any balance-related change, we've made these with a lot of care and consideration to ensure a great game experience for players of all skill levels.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;13484960*
> How the hell do you beat Protoss on Delta Quadrant as Zerg!? I play random and I play on all the maps... and for some reason I hate that map so much as Zerg.
> 
> He walled in his main with gateway/core and zealot on hold position followed by sentries like a normal protoss player would do. So I sacced an overlord to see what he was building in his main. He went 1 gate-> robo facility to fast robo bay. I was like *** his colossi came out so quickly. He got an easy 2nd base because all he had to do was destroy the destructible rocks and know that I would need drops or air units to attack his bases. I had no got damn time to get corruptors for the Colossi because they came out so fast in the game. I only had roaches, burrow, and burrow upgrade. Zerglings obviously were getting raped by the colossi and he had enough sentries/stalkers to make my roaches have a headache. So yeah I lost that game... >.<
> 
> Is Protoss favored on that map or what against Zerg?


Disregarding the map, you probably could have straight droned on 2 bases the first 15 minutes without any fear of getting attacked. You would have won that game for sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13488909*
> http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/140933#blog


I do really feel like PvP is fixed, to some extent. 4-gate tech is now just as slow as DT tech, so you run the risk of getting owned by DTs if you go for the usual build.

I'm still going 10 gate 13 core though, because I'd rather get PvPs over with (and it works a good 60% of the time).


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13489369*
> Disregarding the map, you probably could have straight droned on 2 bases the first 15 minutes without any fear of getting attacked. You would have won that game for sure.


easy to say in hindsight but doing that more or less blind is a surefire way to loose allot of games.


----------



## Ruckol1

I can agree with everything in this patch I think. Even the Infestor slow!


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I can agree with everything in this patch I think. Even the Infestor slow!


Its a stealth buff according to idra lol now they wont run out in-front of your army


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


easy to say in hindsight but doing that more or less blind is a surefire way to loose allot of games.


It's not though. Try to get a good impression of what the toss player is doing. Scout up the ramp with a zergling and check how large the protoss army is. 2+ sentries with the same energy? Might be a 4-gate or aggressive build.

1 gate 1 robo is very defensive, you're absolutely safe to expand and build tons of workers. This is exactly how games go down when I play vs zerg in masters.

As a result of "coaching" with my GM zerg friend xiLost, I learned to feign pressure on zerg players, tricking them into stopping drone production.

tl;dr - you're not going in blind. Scout and try your best to get an impression of what the toss is doing.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13490138*
> Its a stealth buff according to idra lol now they wont run out in-front of your army


THANK GOD. Man, everytime i would attack with roaches infestor and Lings, sometimes the infestors would overtake most roaches and get roasted first. It can hurt if you have maybe 2 or 3 infestors doing fungal growth strikes here and there to run away, but Ill try it out in my next ZvP/ZvT and see how the speed drop goes.

Its not like templars, that are so slow that, its unlikely they will ever be in the front more than a fifth of the time.


----------



## HarrisLam

in 3v3, have 1 win and have 85 points, how is that possible?
(the win is from the last game)


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I just played a TvZ at Scrap Station. I lifted off first thing in the game for the lulz, and won









Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?p199ovtf0vee58s

Yes, I know I'm a noob, so yeah.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13490178*
> It's not though. Try to get a good impression of what the toss player is doing. Scout up the ramp with a zergling and check how large the protoss army is. 2+ sentries with the same energy? Might be a 4-gate or aggressive build.
> 
> 1 gate 1 robo is very defensive, you're absolutely safe to expand and build tons of workers. This is exactly how games go down when I play vs zerg in masters.
> 
> As a result of "coaching" with my GM zerg friend xiLost, I learned to feign pressure on zerg players, tricking them into stopping drone production.
> 
> tl;dr - you're not going in blind. Scout and try your best to get an impression of what the toss is doing.


Sure but that is often difficult to gauge and if he plays his cards right he can be very deceptive with what you see scouting the front and with the odd suicided overlord. some triggers like and Expo are easy but others can be far trickier to spot at least for me they are im sure as you get better at the game it becomes second nature. Denying a zerg early scouting is pretty easy more so for T than P but for either really.

playing random has helped me allot in knowing what and when to be scared of used to just play zerg and often felt like i was pretty much playing rock paper scissors in a darkened room in some games


----------



## yks

Just a reminder for all those who listen/watch SOTG.

Special episode tonight. A lot of announcements.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Just a reminder for all those who listen/watch SOTG.

Special episode tonight. A lot of announcements.


it is? do we need 20k viewers again


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Its a stealth buff according to idra lol now they wont run out in-front of your army










I like fast infestors. I'd be happier if they made the speed downgrade into an upgrade purchasable for 50/50 at the infestation pit. Idra can pay for slowness if he likes it so much.


----------



## Sainesk

I don't get it, how can 40 drones on 2 bases mine less than 30 probes on one base

...

Zerg feels so UP in non 1v1 matches where they cant afford to harass...


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Just won 6 1v1 games in a row. I'm Silver, and I beat 3 Gold, all of which were "Even Teams". Does this mean I get promoted soon?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Just won 6 1v1 games in a row. I'm Silver, and I beat 3 Gold, all of which were "Even Teams". Does this mean I get promoted soon?


Maybe, maybe not. I was getting "teams even" with platinum players for 15 or so games before I got promoted. It does indicate that your MMR is at least going up and is closer to gold than silver, so if you continue to win at least 50% of your games against gold players and almost all of your games against silver players, you should get bumped up.


----------



## ntherblast

Is blizzard looking into the people who use drop hacks cause tis getting really old...


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Just won 6 1v1 games in a row. I'm Silver, and I beat 3 Gold, all of which were "Even Teams". Does this mean I get promoted soon?


no idea i won 9 games in a row and then lost a single game and got demoted before have also been promoted after loosing a game, realy cant work out how the hell it works


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


no idea i won 9 games in a row and then lost a single game and got demoted before have also been promoted after loosing a game, realy cant work out how the hell it works










the people you beat were probably not a higher league than you and the one you lost to was probably a lower league


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


the people you beat were probably not a higher league than you and the one you lost to was probably a lower league


nope i checked same league for all of them proper weairded me out









2 games later i was promoted again guess i was just very close on the mmr ^^


----------



## yks

http://www.justin.tv/itmejp

go listen in 5mins when its live


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.justin.tv/itmejp

go listen in 5mins when its live


torn want to watch this, but also want to wake up in 6 hours to watch gsl finals


----------



## DoomDash

NASL:

Haypro just smashed nada, weird


----------



## l337sft

I wanna stream while I'm playing, but I don't think anyone would watch, I'm not like AMAZING or anything but I know what I'm doing to an extent.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13495622*
> NASL:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Haypro just smashed nada, weird


All the games so far have been mehh.


----------



## BountyHead

I was just playing and Some toss player apparently couldn't decide what cheese he wanted to do so he cannon "rushed" and 4 gated me at the same time. Needless to say his timing with both were poorly timed i had roaches with speed and 1/0 , I should feel bad for not seeing his his terrible cheese, Note to self always scout your own base lol


----------



## yks

1 hr til the finals. can't wait.


----------



## CravinR1

I think Zerg are OP vs toss, and roaches are way to powerful for how cheap and easy they are to get


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13497471*
> I think Zerg are OP vs toss, and roaches are way to powerful for how cheap and easy they are to get


Man so many people will hate you for this







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13497471*
> I think Zerg are OP vs toss, and roaches are way to powerful for how cheap and easy they are to get


As a toss player, imagine me slanting my eyes at you.










I can tell you what is not balanced, is that t3 zerg units are better than t3 toss units.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13497471*
> I think Zerg are OP vs toss, and roaches are way to powerful for how cheap and easy they are to get


And then a Voidray shows up in your base.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13497834*
> 
> I can tell you what is not balanced, is that t3 zerg units are better than t3 toss units.


And T3 zerg takes longer, what's your point? I play terran, Ghosts (sorta? They're more like 2.5 right?), Thors and Battlecruisers aren't exactly the bees-knees, but I can sure get them a lot faster and build more of them earlier than you can get a colossus or 5. It's called a trade-off. If a zerg shows up with BLs and Ultras, you deserve to get mauled, because surviving to that point is hard.


----------



## DoomDash

For those who want to use SC2gears and don't know how to sort by ladder only, I made a little video on how to do it. I know its easy for most of you to figure out but a lot of people I run into can't figure it out. I wasn't sure at first either.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mtyA2KNIhM[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I can't believe Huk listens to this crap.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13497855*
> And then a Voidray shows up in your base.
> 
> And T3 zerg takes longer, what's your point? I play terran, Ghosts (sorta? They're more like 2.5 right?), Thors and Battlecruisers aren't exactly the bees-knees, but I can sure get them a lot faster and build more of them earlier than you can get a colossus or 5. It's called a trade-off. If a zerg shows up with BLs and Ultras, you deserve to get mauled, because surviving to that point is hard.


I already stated my point. I never said about circumstance merely comparing units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13497935*
> I can't believe Huk listens to this crap.
> .


I listen to some kpop, I originally started watching to drool at the Korean girls ( with my gf ), but some of it grew on me. Most of it sucks but I've found some I like.

But huk likes ****ty kpop too.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Has the match started yet? I just got back home.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.


----------



## Vermillion

Nestea poopin on some noobs.


----------



## Sainesk

on gom?

and woot woot all missions hard, got like 14 brutal left...


----------



## Vermillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13498636*
> on gom?
> 
> and woot woot all missions hard, got like 14 brutal left...


Yeah

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/live/


----------



## DoomDash

Sick finals.....


----------



## DoomDash

GSL finals:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## yks

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



lolololololololololololoololol finals.

you know whats funny too? zerg won't get any flak for it.


----------



## yks

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



MC wins with all-ins using force fields and TL explodes with "imba!"

Nestea wins with all-ins using roach/ling and TL explodes with "omg i <3 Nestea"


----------



## DoomDash

I thought inca played those pretty bad. I also wouldn't call anything Nestea did all in, maybe that's a worse thing







.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13498955*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> MC wins with all-ins using force fields and TL explodes with "imba!"
> 
> Nestea wins with all-ins using roach/ling and TL explodes with "omg i <3 Nestea"


 Tags people im sure allot have not yet watched the games.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The roach ling agression was simply punishing a mistake reactive play not a game plan, at no point were they are really all ins just capitalising on the toss making a mistake.

making that mistake once is understandable twice is dubious but 3 times is just plain stupid. There is no way you can say that nestea did not deserve to win that, it wasnt a cheesy all in timeing it was reactive play stomping all over a mistake.

much as i love watching nestea inca was just not good enough to make these finals all that interesting. Made so many silly mistakes (for a player at that level) if we were seeing mc vs nestea in the finals you can bet your arse it would not have been nearly as one sided.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13499002*
> Tags people im sure allot have not yet watched the games.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The roach ling agression was simply punishing a mistake reactive play not a game plan, at no point were they really all ins just capitalising on the toss making a mistake.
> 
> making that mistake once is understandable twice is dubious but 3 times is just plain stupid. There is no way you can say that nestea did not deserve to win that, it wasnt a cheesy all in timeing it was reactive play stomping all over a mistake.
> 
> much as i love watching nestea inca was just not good enough to make these finals all that interesting. Made so many silly mistakes (for a player at that level) if we were seeing mc vs nestea in the finals you can bet your arse it would not have been nearly as one sided.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Inca played horrible, utter garbage. But it still doesn't change the builds NesTea chose.

Game 1, Xel'Naga: It was the game plan to do the roach/ling all in from the get go. If you see the roach warren, it came up super early. Nestea won cause of Inca's horrible pylon placement, but it still doesn't change the fact it was an all in cause if Inca had better building placements, he would've been fine and nestea in a bad spot.

I can explain the other games too if you'd like.

The only game I felt was played correctly was the last game on Tal'Dirm


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!













Also, I don't consider that example an all in at all. Roach aggression is good, even if its just to waste FF's or pick things off.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's definitely pressure build in the second and third game. I didn't see the first.

Aggression is always good if you don't skip drones. Or you can stay ahead in base and drone count.


----------



## DoomDash

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13499038*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Inca played horrible, utter garbage. But it still doesn't change the builds NesTea chose.
> 
> Game 1, Xel'Naga: It was the game plan to do the roach/ling all in from the get go. If you see the roach warren, it came up super early. Nestea won cause of Inca's horrible pylon placement, but it still doesn't change the fact it was an all in cause if Inca had better building placements, he would've been fine and nestea in a bad spot.
> 
> I can explain the other games too if you'd like.
> 
> The only game I felt was played correctly was the last game on Tal'Dirm





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I dissagree, the roach warren goes down when it does for multiple reasons, it makes nestea safe from agression and it means that if the toss makes a mistake he can capitalise on it, thats not an all in strat thats just good game play. It puts him in a postion to react calling that all in is like calling terran making a factory an all in.

If your saying that making roaches instead of drones or the fact that if you attack and achieve nothing it puts you behind makes an attack all in then your basicly talking about every kind of pressure zerg can do. Its not an all in its a reactive play with fairly minimal risk.

he builds a roach warren - 1 worker, toss 4 gates Z defends thanks to roaches, Toss takes and expo he cant really defend Z punishes him for being greedy using roach ling, T expands at a safe timing Z doesnt build roaches and game continues Z is a few minerals behind where he would be if he did not build a roach warren quite that early (he would want one anyway not much later), I fail to see how that is all in







its just being prepared to make the most of any situation. at the very worst its teching, if it doesnt work out you end up slightly behind does not mean its an all in.


----------



## DoomDash

Naniwa and Thorzane interviews ( really good ):

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/show/mlg-interviews-naniwa/943089299001

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/show/mlg-interviews-thorzain/943092602001


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Naniwa and Thorzane interviews ( really good ):

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/vide...a/943089299001

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/vide...n/943092602001


u mean thorzain?


----------



## yks

tsl 3rd place is pretty good.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Make a frigging DT Hasu


----------



## RealEyes

how much RAM does it take to run SC2, winamp, Skype, Chromium-browser aaaaand ... win7?


----------



## yks

http://www.fnatic.com/blogs/DBSen/28...xperience.html


----------



## Forcewater

q


----------



## DoomDash

I have 8 gb of ram and alt tabbed my cpu usage is like 70%~ from 20-30% with out SCII open. I have a bunch of crap always running though like pidgin, steam, skype, ect ect.

SCII is very CPU intensive. Kinda sucks actually.


----------



## DoomDash

Early game scouting has been solved by cella:


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is that Werra? I thought he was with TSL.

So I found GSL Code S semi finals... who wants the videos..


----------



## yks

nononoon, Cella is his ID. WeRRa was his old clan.

But WeRRa disbanded due to the head-coach's sexual assault incident.

Then he joined SlayerS as a clan-member, before earning team member status. Then he got promoted to coach and then another promotion to head coach!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13509891*
> Early game scouting has been solved by cella:


rofl









almost as sneaky as those vans with candy written on their sides...

(and yay 1 mission till brutal done...)


----------



## Mwarren

Does anyone have a guest pass that they don't need? I have a friend that wants to try SC2.


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


rofl









almost as sneaky as those vans with candy written on their sides...

(and yay 1 mission till brutal done...)


Dope avi.


----------



## the.FBI

I was hoping someone could do me a favor, if someone has a laptop running an i5-2410m with integrated graphics what settings can you run sc2 at 30 fps constant?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Does anyone have a guest pass that they don't need? I have a friend that wants to try SC2.


I have one, I think.


----------



## Nw0rb

I have a pass as well


----------



## HarrisLam

ok i was so happy last night, i played like 4 3v3 games and won all of them, also getting that team hot streak 5 or something achievement

i wasnt happy because i won those games, i was happy because in all those 4 games i was teamming with ppl that knew what they were doing(i am gold, never checked them, i suppose silver and up)

see, when i play team games, i never had this many games without idiots(a gold player calling teammates idiots, figure how newb they gotta be), i never knew this could be such a wonderful feeling

ok and i played a 1v1 game tonight, beating a silver terran as a gold terran myself
i have so little time to get my touch back, and i was so bad this season this silver terran was actually slightly favored against me lol

heres the replay if anyone will be interested at all : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/1285

i haven't had time to analyse the replay before posting this, sorry about that, probably watch it tomorrow night or something (SEA player here), the following are pulled from my memory

basically the whole game i was in the active position (which is VERY VERY rare for me in a TvT)

he attacked first with i think 2 siege tanks and 2 vikings, he microed badly, went to close and ended up losing the fight(otherwise i suspect he would have just won the game right there probably, not sure though cuz i had stim already)

he never attacked after the initial, but i think he teched faster than i did
he went sieged tanks viking, i went MM and then into MMM at first but added in vikings and later unsieged tanks and banshees into the mix after a few failed attempts

he left after realizing i had 3 base going and probably a lot more military structures than him

i think the major reasons i won was:

1) i got lucky in discovering the initial attack and his panic costed him the entire army
2) i expanded at great timing while my counter attack scared him off from doing the same

now i know beating this passive dude doesn't mean much, but i kinda feel this game is one of my better performing ones, one of my representative games for TvT, my old weakness(with this little time practising and other races getting better at vs terran, its more like im weak in all matchups lol), and would like to share the replay with whoever thats interested in teaching me how to play better, at least give some advices please?

and dont advise me to practise more, or to get my APM up, i simply have no time for that lol. I sacrificed like 30 mins of sleep time simply to upload replay and type this up so..


----------



## yks

Lets go naniwaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Lets go Thorzaaaaiinnnnnn


Fixed.


----------



## Sainesk

just wondering with the same amount of upgrades and food count, would a full army of voids or phoenixs win?

what about voids vs vikings?

and voids vs corruptors?

my guess would be voids win first two, corruptors beat voids? or am I wrong...

also is there any way to start a game where you get to control 2 armies, would be so useful for me personally to test things like this...


----------



## Para.v31

Voids have bonus damage against corruptors, where corruptors don't. Voids are a good unit against corruptors but the thing is Zerg can make 10 corruptors at once and overwhelm your voids.


----------



## poroboszcz

I actually don't know which player to root for. The stream is extremely laggy for me.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just wondering with the same amount of upgrades and food count, would a full army of voids or phoenixs win?

what about voids vs vikings?

and voids vs corruptors?

my guess would be voids win first two, corruptors beat voids? or am I wrong...

also is there any way to start a game where you get to control 2 armies, would be so useful for me personally to test things like this...










You should compare costs rather than food counts.


----------



## the.FBI

That was hands down the least exciting interview I have ever seen. Upsetting that I missed the games.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Danm..

I was too tired, I went to bed after the first two games, I can't remember what happened in the first two games either!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;13516098*
> That was hands down the least exciting interview I have ever seen. Upsetting that I missed the games.


The games were quite the opposite. I'm sure the VODs will soon be available, but they were quite intense to watch live.


----------



## Sainesk

just wondering when you max out your army as zerg (all upgrades, suicide some of your zerglings to make room for better units etc.)

should you get overlord/seer speed upgrade and cluster them up with your army?

I seem to be having quite some luck with it, I guess the least it does is mess with my opponents micro?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13518131*
> just wondering when you max out your army as zerg (all upgrades, suicide some of your zerglings to make room for better units etc.)
> 
> should you get overlord/seer speed upgrade and cluster them up with your army?
> 
> I seem to be having quite some luck with it, I guess the least it does is mess with my opponents micro?


by suicide some zerglings, i assume you mean make them into banelings and use them to cause as much damage as possible. becuase really at any point in zerg army you want alot of zerglings, they do too much damage to be ignored but are anoying to kill as there are so many, they are also great for flanking and blocking his escape/reinforcements, or just running in and raping a mineral line. 3/3 lings with speed and attack upgrade munch things fast









If you do make sure you overproduce them to make up for the ones you will loose, but yeah every little helps, no only do they offer more targets messing with people especially if you fill some of them with banes, so they feel like they have to focus them down ^^ but they also let you spread creep wherever your fighting which is realy usefull









Been doing allot of spanishiwa recently with my zerg and you can bring some queens in your ovies too transfusing broods/ultras is a sure fire way to make your oponant rage


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13518191*
> 
> Been doing allot of spanishiwa recently with my zerg and you can bring some queens in your ovies too transfusing broods/ultras is a sure fire way to make your oponant rage


wow queens can get into overlords? learn something new everyday about this game...









now I have a craving to look for some mass queen drop vids... know any?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13518236*
> wow queens can get into overlords? learn something new everyday about this game...


4 of them i believe pretty op









some things you never think to try untill you do a mass queen funday monday


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What you can do is pop a queen into an overseer before speed is done, drive over to the other side of the map, poop creep, then pop a few creep tumours. Now you can spread creep from two sides of a map.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13518236*
> wow queens can get into overlords? learn something new everyday about this game...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now I have a craving to look for some mass queen drop vids... know any?


I did this once: Loaded up a queen full of energy, spewed creep into corner of opponent's base on LT. Then I laid down 4 creep tumours and spread creep. On his vision, all he sees is creep spreading near his nexus, etc....


----------



## Allenssmart

if u guys havent played night of the dead you must do so NOW!!!!


----------



## stren

man I haven't played 1v1 in a while and i suck in general anyway, but I thought I'd start again today and played about 15 games. I won every TvP because they 4 gated every time and I lost every single freaking TVZ. Didn't get any TvT at all which was weird. I have to work on my TvZ, but I struggle to find the balance.

If I don't push hard early then they roflstomp me after keeping me turtled with muta/lings which also negated my drops. I've never succesfully rushed them even when they early expand and even when doing a TLO style 6 rax rush. So I have to keep trying to push them and keep them on the back foot but I haven't been able to do that without falling behind in macro. Then in the late game your army is geared towards muta/ling and then you either under produce vikings and get squashed by broodlord corrupter, or over produce and a few fungle growths take all your vikings.

Maybe I should just plan going stealth banshee if the initial push fails. How do you handle it?


----------



## Wubble

Found this cheesy strat when doing placement matches, two players go zerg and 6 pool to take out one player, then the third player on your team makes Marine Marauder and when you face resistance you bring the marines/marauders, out of the four times we have tried it in placement matches we have won everytime we lost one because we didn't use that strategy.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wubble*


Found this cheesy strat when doing placement matches, two players go zerg and 6 pool to take out one player, then the third player on your team makes Marine Marauder and when you face resistance you bring the marines/marauders, out of the four times we have tried it in placement matches we have won everytime we lost one because we didn't use that strategy.


There's no such thing as cheese in 3v3. If every single member of your team does a timing push that's around the same time for everyone (4gate, Roaches, Sling Bling, 6rax marines, M+M+Stim) you should be able to dominate at least one person on the opposite team, if not win outright. But, If the other 2 are allowed to continue to tech without pressure, they usually show up 2-4 minutes after your timing push with tanks, cloaked banshees, colossi or mutas.

Try having 2 zerg+ 1 terran and have one zerg go sling/roaches, one zerg go sling/bling and the terran go mass marine. You should all be able to leave your base right when any rushed DTs would be coming, around 6-7 minutes, in which case you can hold back for a sec. Let the roaches lead, with the marines just behind, and use the slings to go kill mineral lines.


----------



## Wubble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13520132*
> There's no such thing as cheese in 3v3. If every single member of your team does a timing push that's around the same time for everyone (4gate, Roaches, Sling Bling, 6rax marines, M+M+Stim) you should be able to dominate at least one person on the opposite team, if not win outright. But, If the other 2 are allowed to continue to tech without pressure, they usually show up 2-4 minutes after your timing push with tanks, cloaked banshees, colossi or mutas.
> 
> Try having 2 zerg+ 1 terran and have one zerg go sling/roaches, one zerg go sling/bling and the terran go mass marine. You should all be able to leave your base right when any rushed DTs would be coming, around 6-7 minutes, in which case you can hold back for a sec. Let the roaches lead, with the marines just behind, and use the slings to go kill mineral lines.


What are blings? I don't play Zerg usually as I play Protoss more. I'm pretty sure slings are speedlings? So blings would be... bad lings
EDIT: Nvm I got it, banelings....


----------



## brl3git

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wubble*


What are blings? I don't play Zerg usually as I play Protoss more. I'm pretty sure slings are speedlings? So blings would be... bad lings
EDIT: Nvm I got it, banelings....


Banelings...

Edit: derp the edit from you didnt show up when i quoted


----------



## Nw0rb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wubble*


What are blings? I don't play Zerg usually as I play Protoss more. I'm pretty sure slings are speedlings? So blings would be... bad lings
EDIT: Nvm I got it, banelings....



Sorry i have to lol at this


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm so pissed off a the Terran tank marine banshee/raven slow push I just closed Naniwa vs thorzain halfway though the video without thinking. I hate that strat so much.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


ok and i played a 1v1 game tonight, beating a silver terran as a gold terran myself
i have so little time to get my touch back, and i was so bad this season this silver terran was actually slightly favored against me lol

heres the replay if anyone will be interested at all : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/1285

i haven't had time to analyse the replay before posting this, sorry about that, probably watch it tomorrow night or something (SEA player here), the following are pulled from my memory

basically the whole game i was in the active position (which is VERY VERY rare for me in a TvT)

he attacked first with i think 2 siege tanks and 2 vikings, he microed badly, went to close and ended up losing the fight(otherwise i suspect he would have just won the game right there probably, not sure though cuz i had stim already)

he never attacked after the initial, but i think he teched faster than i did
he went sieged tanks viking, i went MM and then into MMM at first but added in vikings and later unsieged tanks and banshees into the mix after a few failed attempts

he left after realizing i had 3 base going and probably a lot more military structures than him

i think the major reasons i won was:

1) i got lucky in discovering the initial attack and his panic costed him the entire army
2) i expanded at great timing while my counter attack scared him off from doing the same

now i know beating this passive dude doesn't mean much, but i kinda feel this game is one of my better performing ones, one of my representative games for TvT, my old weakness(with this little time practising and other races getting better at vs terran, its more like im weak in all matchups lol), and would like to share the replay with whoever thats interested in teaching me how to play better, at least give some advices please?

and dont advise me to practise more, or to get my APM up, i simply have no time for that lol. I sacrificed like 30 mins of sleep time simply to upload replay and type this up so..


come on guys, no help at all?


----------



## DoomDash

I'll try and watch in a bit.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I finally played ladder after a month or two. The other protoss in this pvp when two gate starget with 5 phoenix. When that happened I totally forgot what to do. I was thinking "what the heck am I supposed to do again?", and I totally didn't know!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Those of you with mechanical cherry switches, Geekhack's got a potential group buy for team liquid esc key.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?1...eam-liquid-key


----------



## DoomDash

God, I hate your avatar yellow. It's like the dumbest trend ever. I'm LOLing just thinking about it.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's like the dumbest trend ever.


I dont know about that there have been some real corkers, but yeah pretty much, although i do wish people would stop saying LOL in actual real world conversation that drives me nuts, if you want to laugh freaking laugh if not dont tell me you are cos i can see that your not.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean at this point LOL is just never going away, and these people need to deal with it. It's still an easy / great way of expressing how you feel over the internet, even if you don't actually LOL every time you type it. If someone actually expects this, or wants this to be removed from internet trends, he/she should do themselves the favor and just not go on the internet.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL
LOL

lolllll

I say it more than anyone. I could care less if someone says it on the interwebs. It's just for fun.


----------



## Plex

Got my Korean account/client today!! Looking forward to climbing up again and excited to find the differences in styles. It's like getting a sneak peek at upcoming US builds.

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


----------



## Sainesk

yay brutal









bring on HOTS!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;13526207*
> Got my Korean account/client today!! Looking forward to climbing up again and excited to find the differences in styles. It's like getting a sneak peek at upcoming US builds.
> 
> Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


Can you get another? I want one.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13527066*
> Can you get another? I want one.


I can't access TL from here (work). When I get home in a few hours, I will send you the link to the guy that can help you out. You need someone in Korea to get it for you. He's helped a lot of people get setup with KOR accounts already, extremely awesome dude and very reputable.

If you don't want to wait for me to get home, look for EZPikachu's thread. Shouldn't be too hard to find.


----------



## rhed5

How is the lag in KR? I believe they're selling the game now for about $40 there to promote new users. If the lag isn't too bad, maybe I should give it a try.


----------



## DoomDash

Oh OK, yeah I know he can get them. Was just asking you for price comparing. Yeah I will probably get one from him this summer sometimes when I get a job.


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13527370*
> How is the lag in KR? I believe they're selling now for about $40 there to promote new users. If the lag isn't too bad, maybe I should give it a try.


It's honestly not that bad when you're playing from US to Korea. I've heard that playing on the US servers from Korea can be pretty bad, though. I only had a chance to play a couple games before work on the Korean client and I didn't really feel any lag at all. If I start feeling it at certain times of the day then I'll just swap over to the US client, no bigs.

The only thing I have to get used to are the players talking to me in Korean, haha. Most of them know some of the really common English words, though. Met a couple cool dudes already. I just ask them if they know English and then we can manage to break the barrier and chat a little that way.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn I really want one now. I wish I could trade my 2nd account







.


----------



## Sainesk

i'm guessing silver league over there is like diamond here...?









anyway, I miss big!


----------



## Plex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13527463*
> Damn I really want one now. I wish I could trade my 2nd account
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You should! Then we could add each other and find some guys to practice with.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13527573*
> i'm guessing silver league over there is like diamond here...?


lol, at least. It's MUCH more competitive. Though on the same token, I've heard it feels way cheesier over there too. In any case, I plan to get to Master's league there too, so I'll find out soon.


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin speaks Korean I bet too.. he would fit right in.


----------



## yks

You guys all think I haven't been playing, but really, I'm in the KR servers getting a million times better to surprise you guys.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13527761*
> You guys all think I haven't been playing, but really, I'm in the KR servers getting a million times better to surprise you guys.


Right.









http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-columbus-two-starcraft-2-streams-tasteless-and-artosis


----------



## Eskanasi

I learned something new this morning, you can win by destroying every single building on the enemy team. He had mutas and I had zealots, it was the end of the game, we both weren't producing, didn't have any cash or command centres,

and he was in my base destroying it while my zealots were in his, I got all his buildings (I'd destroyed nearly all of them before he won the big battle that got rid of all my stalkers) before he got mine even though there was no way I could win when he had mutas and I had only zealots (4 hero zealots).


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eskanasi;13529380*
> I learned something new this morning, you can win by destroying every single building on the enemy team. He had mutas and I had zealots, it was the end of the game, we both weren't producing, didn't have any cash or command centres,
> 
> and he was in my base destroying it while my zealots were in his, I got all his buildings (I'd destroyed nearly all of them before he won the big battle that got rid of all my stalkers) before he got mine even though there was no way I could win when he had mutas and I had only zealots (4 hero zealots).


I recommend you this game then:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9niTmeOU&feature=fvwrel[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

GG Jed, but why you run away? I was going to kill you next match. Just had to restart game for sound to come back on.

God danm Terrans! I wish I can just make three two types of units and insta win.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13529674*
> GG Jed, but why you run away? I was going to kill you next match. Just had to restart game for sound to come back on.
> 
> God danm Terrans! I wish I can just make three two types of units and insta win.


Mass marines/marauders?

What about medvac support


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


i'm guessing silver league over there is like diamond here...?









*anyway, I miss big!







*


I'm back!







Just got home after a crazy long bus ride, can't wait to play some SCII but I'm somewhat positive I'm gonna be playing really bizzare, more so than usual XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


I can't access TL from here (work). When I get home in a few hours, I will send you the link to the guy that can help you out. You need someone in Korea to get it for you. He's helped a lot of people get setup with KOR accounts already, extremely awesome dude and very reputable.

If you don't want to wait for me to get home, look for EZPikachu's thread. Shouldn't be too hard to find.










hmm, that sounds interesting. Can you send me the link please? Always wondered about the difference in play between Korean and NA servers, maybe I'll experience it firsthand









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You guys all think I haven't been playing, but really, I'm in the KR servers getting a million times better to surprise you guys.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/new...ss-and-artosis


Yep, it's all over TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=223805


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


God danm Terrans! I wish I can just make three two types of units and insta win.


Oh trust me we'd rather depend on some unit as powerful and easy to micro as the colossus, that forces tech.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

For laddering, loosing is the best motivation.

Spanishiwa zerg style is so good right now.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Plex*


Got my Korean account/client today!! Looking forward to climbing up again and excited to find the differences in styles. It's like getting a sneak peek at upcoming US builds.

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.


I should get my Korean girlfriend to make me a Korean account, but I'm already getting raped on the US server


----------



## yks

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...o-a-felony.ars
http://shoryuken.com/content/could-u...e-felony-4543/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=202306

Quote:



Two months ago, US Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator Victoria Espinel produced her wishlist of changes to US law. One item in particular caught our interest-the suggestion that the online streaming of copyrighted content be bumped up to a full-scale felony. Late last week, Senators Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) and John Cornyn (R-TX) introduced just such a bill.


THIS B.!TCH wants to make streaming ILLEGAL w/o a license from whatever companies' game you're using!

WHAT THE F*CK


----------



## BenRK

Wanted: A Starcraft 2 tutor or noob buddy to practice with.

Pay: I'm not paying you in anything but star stickers, but only if you pay for them.

When: When I'm not at work.

Where: USA servers. Gotta love the lack of cross server things.

Why: I suck at Starcraft 2, what else!?

PM for more info? I don't know...


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BenRK*


Wanted: A Starcraft 2 tutor or noob buddy to practice with.

Pay: I'm not paying you in anything but star stickers, but only if you pay for them.

When: When I'm not at work.

Where: USA servers. Gotta love the lack of cross server things.

Why: I suck at Starcraft 2, what else!?

PM for more info? I don't know...


Playing (and winning) against Hard and Very Hard AI got me out of Bronze. I got out of bronze about 2 weeks ago







. Have you tried doing the same?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...o-a-felony.ars
http://shoryuken.com/content/could-u...e-felony-4543/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=202306

THIS B.!TCH wants to make streaming ILLEGAL w/o a license from whatever companies' game you're using!

WHAT THE F*CK


hehe, good thing I live in Canada, means I can stream all I like


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hehe, good thing I live in Canada, means I can stream all I like










All you like if you pay for the extra bandwidth!!!


----------



## Raiden911

cheesing ftw.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't know if you will perform better. Macroing with T and P is a little different but a lot of the times your problem has nothing to do with droning or making units, in fact exactly the opposite, and doing nothing at all. Let's just say when I watch you play am often times confused as to what you are even looking at. I've seen larva sitting at your base @ both hatches doing *nothing* with 2000/600 in the bank ( and no mutas on the way ). That's exactly the same as having a bunch of barracks or gateways just sitting there doing nothing. I don't think it would be wise for you to play either of those races until you can grasp the fundamentals of the game not just Zerg. Though if you feel those races are better suited for you for other reasons go for it. Chances are if you play P or T you will be so much worse than you are with Zerg, and honestly that won't help either of us get better.

*I think the one thing that kind of bugs me about your attitude, while for the most part awesome and positive.. is that you always seem to make up an excuse for the problem without just acknowledging issues better players give you as advice. *I'm confident every good player would tell you to work on your spending and building more than learning what units and upgrades can do what, because as I've said its by far the biggest whole to your game. My perfect example is that game that you went roach, and very late muta vs yks... you said you shoulda got muta faster. Well guess what? That's completely false and has nothign to do with that match what so ever. You could have won with roach just fine if you spent... so why even mention something like muta. That's like, I could have won with a dark templar , but you have 10k in the bank and you lucked out because your opponent wasn't prepared for it. So, I know that you are going to give me 10 reasons justifying your reasoning behind it, and I honestly think you are putting far too much thought into something that isn't your problem at all.

But of course I'm willing to practice.


*claps* I was searching the older posts and this one caught my attention. I bolded the part a lot of players have a problem with. (2nd paragraph)

(This isn't directed at anyone. Just people that have this stubborn personality)

A lot of us that played Brood War dealt with this same issue. Less experienced players would always make excuses when their macro was the clear reason for their loss. You could have insane micro and still lose if your macro is bad. Also if people that are in Master's league are trying to give you advice and you just make up excuses it just makes you look even more ignorant. If you want to truly get better at SC2, you have to listen to when more experienced players are giving you advice. It's ok to have your own ideas, but you can't just blow off their ideas and make excuses for why "such and such" didn't work.

Too many times I've seen people say "Oh I lost because of this... or that" Then you watch the replay and it's obvious things like bad build order, too much queue of units, mass stockpile of resources, supply blocked, and etc.

Gosucoaching or whatever else place that offers coaching to players will be a waste of money if you just argue with them all day about why you think your gold/platinum level strategies are better than his Master/GrandMaster theories.

I remember when I had a couple of the Teamliquid mods, coach me in some BW games back in the day. It was tempting to argue with them, but the advice they gave was right. I learned to listen to what they told me and try to apply it in my own games. I admit I also wanted to give up some times during the practice because their skill level was overwhelming and they were playing with me in some games, but you can't give up. Just keep practicing and try to learn from your mistakes. Please don't make excuses though it will only hurt yourself in the long run.

I like to give advice to people that I'm playing against even during the middle of the game. I would hope they would do the same to me during/or after the game if it would make me a better player.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn must have been really digging this grave deep







.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


*claps* I was searching the older posts and this one caught my attention. I bolded the part a lot of players have a problem with. (2nd paragraph)

(This isn't directed at anyone. Just people that have this stubborn personality)

A lot of us that played Brood War dealt with this same issue. Less experienced players would always make excuses when their macro was the clear reason for their loss. You could have insane micro and still lose if your macro is bad. Also if people that are in Master's league are trying to give you advice and you just make up excuses it just makes you look even more ignorant. If you want to truly get better at SC2, you have to listen to when more experienced players are giving you advice. It's ok to have your own ideas, but you can't just blow off their ideas and make excuses for why "such and such" didn't work.

Too many times I've seen people say "Oh I lost because of this... or that" Then you watch the replay and it's obvious things like bad build order, too much queue of units, mass stockpile of resources, supply blocked, and etc.

Gosucoaching or whatever else place that offers coaching to players will be a waste of money if you just argue with them all day about why you think your gold/platinum level strategies are better than his Master/GrandMaster theories.

I remember when I had a couple of the Teamliquid mods, coach me in some BW games back in the day. It was tempting to argue with them, but the advice they gave was right. I learned to listen to what they told me and try to apply it in my own games. I admit I also wanted to give up some times during the practice because their skill level was overwhelming and they were playing with me in some games, but you can't give up. Just keep practicing and try to learn from your mistakes. Please don't make excuses though it will only hurt yourself in the long run.

I like to give advice to people that I'm playing against even during the middle of the game. I would hope they would do the same to me during/or after the game if it would make me a better player.


This is why I only mine minerals and only produce marines. So much less to manage without all that pesky gas getting in the way. Just plain old pylons and probes. And marines. Lots of marines.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


This is why I only mine minerals and only produce marines. So much less to manage without all that pesky gas getting in the way. Just plain old pylons and probes. And marines. Lots of marines.


Sad part is some people actually post like that in the lower leagues.

I was reading teamliquid yesterday and a guy told one of the more experienced players that he doesn't use a certain unit because it's too annoying to control.

It's cool though that places like Teamliquid are getting more strict on what people post in the strategy forums. Like for example "I didn't watch your replay, but if you would of did blue flame hellions you would of won." That got the poster an immediate warning because clearly in the video the zerg opponent had spine crawlers and roaches everywhere.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BenRK*


Wanted: A Starcraft 2 tutor or noob buddy to practice with.

Pay: I'm not paying you in anything but star stickers, but only if you pay for them.

When: When I'm not at work.

Where: USA servers. Gotta love the lack of cross server things.

Why: I suck at Starcraft 2, what else!?

PM for more info? I don't know...


I'm High Silver (not impressive for certain) but I don't have a regular 2v2 partner or know anyone that plays and I'd love a regular team mate if you want to play some. I'm in EST, but generally stay up at night. PM me if you're interested in doing some 2v2


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BenRK*


Wanted: A Starcraft 2 tutor or noob buddy to practice with.

Pay: I'm not paying you in anything but star stickers, but only if you pay for them.

When: When I'm not at work.

Where: USA servers. Gotta love the lack of cross server things.

Why: I suck at Starcraft 2, what else!?

PM for more info? I don't know...


Im a mid silver zerg if you ever wanna play just pm me i Dont remember my code lol


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Im a mid silver zerg if you ever wanna play just pm me i Dont remember my code lol


Feel free to add me, I need some SC2 friends:

Cravin
911


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I should get my Korean girlfriend to make me a Korean account, but I'm already getting raped on the US server










Korean girlfriend, I am jelly.

Lol I still play on SEA, and I'm starting to notice the same players occasionally (every 10-20 games)


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I recommend you this game then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9n...feature=fvwrel


I have never laughed so hard. This was amazing. I really loved that game, base race it was. Makes mine seem so crappy.


----------



## DoomDash

If I could get a job in Korea I'd probably take it and move there with my GF. SCII and Tekken Tag Tournament 2... yes please.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


GG Jed, but why you run away? I was going to kill you next match. Just had to restart game for sound to come back on.

God danm Terrans! I wish I can just make three two types of units and insta win.












some of the games were too close for my liking. damn your all ins.


----------



## Ruckol1

Feel free to add my guys, I see a lot of new people here. I'm a high plat Z, will help anybody who needs it.

glorify.368


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13533733*
> All you like if you pay for the extra bandwidth!!!










To get you up to speed, they stopped that law and the gov is rethinking it over atm. Either way, it would've only affected DSL, so, could've made the move to cable to avoid it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;13533953*
> *claps* I was searching the older posts and this one caught my attention. I bolded the part a lot of players have a problem with. (2nd paragraph)
> 
> (This isn't directed at anyone. Just people that have this stubborn personality)
> .....
> I like to give advice to people that I'm playing against even during the middle of the game. I would hope they would do the same to me during/or after the game if it would make me a better player.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13534024*
> Damn must have been really digging this grave deep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


x2, talk about necroing old posts from months ago









Forgot to mention that I finally broke my tilt last night







ZvsT on backwater, guy tried to bunker rush with little success then he tried to push with blue flame hellions, marines and tanks but I was able to catch him everytime and eventually I took it


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I was on tilt for like 2 weeks myself.


----------



## slickwilly

Doomdash if you really want a job in S.Korea then check in to Department Of Defense
jobs, lovely country in the southern part, spooky in the northern area
(tank bunkers everywhere) at least it was back in 1985


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slickwilly;13537657*
> spooky in the northern area
> (tank bunkers everywhere) at least it was back in 1985


Just like TvZ, should be right at home!


----------



## Multiverse

Hey been a lurker in this thread for a while. I'm a silver league protoss thats still trying to learn macro. Id love some practice partners as most of my friends are higher level and are hardly on when I am.

I'm Skip-962. feel free to add me


----------



## NguyenAdam

Screw Master league 2v2.







People in there are way too good.


----------



## yks

all you new people in this thread should join the, "overclock.net" channel on battle.net (w/o the quotations of course)

then in Option -> Battle.net, make sure the Auto-Join channel is on, so you'll join it every time you log onto battlenet


----------



## poroboszcz

Have you guys played your IPL 2 qualifiers yet?


----------



## Silentness

Ahhh I play random, but the random gods must hate me. I got Zerg literally 8x in a row. My best race is Terran (since BW), then Protoss, and Zerg being last.

My ZvP is dookie. I always seem to not build enough roaches/corruptors for colossi, my infestors instantly get melted by a group of thermal lance upgraded colossi so I'm lucky to even get one fungal growth out.

ZvZ makes my head spin.

ZvT is the only one I enjoy as Zerg.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Multiverse*


Hey been a lurker in this thread for a while. I'm a silver league protoss thats still trying to learn macro. Id love some practice partners as most of my friends are higher level and are hardly on when I am.

I'm Skip-962. feel free to add me


Go ahead and add me also silver zerg Bountyhead.986 ( i think lol)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


Ahhh I play random, but the random gods must hate me. I got Zerg 10x in a row. My best race is Terran (since BW), then Protoss, and Zerg being last.

My ZvP is dookie. I always seem to not build enough roaches/corruptors for colossi, my infestors instantly get melted by a group of thermal lance upgraded colossi so I'm lucky to even get one fungal growth out.

ZvZ makes my head spin.

ZvT is the only one I enjoy as Zerg.


ZvZ is who can get roaches the fastest from all the games i have played if you can work in a few infestors for fungal you can really turn the tide in your favor.

ZvP I try to go for a roach timing push especially if they are doing 3 gate expand , once the Toss turtle up and get those 4-5 collosi it becomes so hard to deal with try not to get stuck on lair tech that is my personal problem in ZvP. Ive notice a lot of zerg do get them brood corruptors out and then the collosi are down morph to broods. thats what i try to do if a ZvP drags on


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I was on tilt for like 2 weeks myself.


Yes, it's harder when you are still coming off a 9 game win streak followed by a 6 game win streak. Having said that, seeing as I just got into gold, I'd rather not get demoted so quickly









To let everyone know, I've added a custom game section to the OP. The idea is to add player names/codes in one place, so, that others can add said individual to play a custom. Anyone that is interested in adding their name, just post it here and make a mention that its for the custom section


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


ZvT is the only one I enjoy as Zerg.


Doesn't surprise me.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*


Screw Master league 2v2.







People in there are way too good.


Nah man it's the opposite. Getting good random partners in 2v2 Masters is mostly luck, and it takes 2 random players of a higher caliber to defeat a "team" in 2v2s. When you get to the top it just gets 10x harder when your playing pro teams like sixjax against random partners.


----------



## yks

Columbus:










Group C, the group of death.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Columbus:










Group C, the group of death.


All groups are interesting, although, IMO Group D is the group of death


----------



## DoomDash

Man, I really love my new TvZ, ghost + mech, SO SEXY. Still perfecting it so it wasn't perfect, but I recommend this game ( if you want to see like 100 snipes!! )


----------



## yellowtoblerone

When is this tourny?


----------



## yks

GSL Super Tournament Ranks and players (top64)










MVP rank #1, MC/NesTea tied #2/3


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13545961*
> Man, I really love my new TvZ, ghost + mech, SO SEXY. Still perfecting it so it wasn't perfect, but I recommend this game ( if you want to see like 100 snipes!! )


Sounds cool!


----------



## Sainesk

is a virtual blizzcon ticket worth it when they start selling them?

How is it compared to GSL and stuff... I'm guessing GSL has more better players?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13546188*
> is a virtual blizzcon ticket worth it when they start selling them?
> 
> How is it compared to GSL and stuff... I'm guessing GSL has more better players?


Blizzcon is nice, but in no way, shape, or form worth any sort of money.









Unless of course your actually attending the event, then it's legit.


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13545961*
> Man, I really love my new TvZ, ghost + mech, SO SEXY. Still perfecting it so it wasn't perfect, but I recommend this game ( if you want to see like 100 snipes!! )


I watched it. Great game!

I have a few questions:

How do you jump around the map so quickly at the beginning? I can't see your mouse, so I don't know if you're using the minimap or not, but I assume that you aren't.
Any reason in particular why you chose to hotkey each CC to a different number, instead of having all of them under one hotkey? Preference?
Most importantly, if you were zerg (playing as your opponent), how would you have countered the ghost + mech (yourself)?
Again, great game (coming from a silver player







)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz;13546661*
> I watched it. Great game!
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> How do you jump around the map so quickly at the beginning? I can't see your mouse, so I don't know if you're using the minimap or not, but I assume that you aren't.
> Any reason in particular why you chose to hotkey each CC to a different number, instead of having all of them under one hotkey? Preference?
> Most importantly, if you were zerg (playing as your opponent), how would you have countered the ghost + mech (yourself)?
> Again, great game (coming from a silver player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


1: Um it depends on what I'm jumping to? If it's a unit I have hotkeyed I just hit 11 for example and it goes right to it. If it's not hotkeyed its probably just mini-map.

2: I do this so I can jump from base to base to manage it / call down mules. I want to change it so they are all on one hotkey, and switch my fact and port to 6-7 but it's been a hard habit to break. I have "~" as center camera on my CC's.. so now it's just a matter of doing it.

3: If I was Zerg I probably would have used some baneling drops or spent more time trying to stop the PF's. 3 of my PF's had no defense, which means he could have made a bunch of banelings and right clicked them. I think it's a good exchange for Zerg. Also killing any repairing SCV's is important, and perhaps roach burrow movement would have helped.

If you want to see from my first person POV I have some on youtube:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A[/ame]

and yes that's the real Artosis







.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz;13546661*
> I watched it. Great game!
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> How do you jump around the map so quickly at the beginning? I can't see your mouse, so I don't know if you're using the minimap or not, but I assume that you aren't.
> Any reason in particular why you chose to hotkey each CC to a different number, instead of having all of them under one hotkey? Preference?
> Most importantly, if you were zerg (playing as your opponent), how would you have countered the ghost + mech (yourself)?
> Again, great game (coming from a silver player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Doom really brought the noise fairly early on and sat right outside his opponent's natural for about 10 minutes. The zerg should have built a ton of roaches and some speedlings and started poking around the map, because there was no way he was going to pierce thor+tank at his front with the little roach forces he kept sending. Mech is really slow, so Doom wouldn't have been able to react fast.

Once Doom got those ghosts it was gg. You can't send your big scary zerg units against ghosts, snipe will rip through them so fast.

I think the zerg should have just gone roach ling with a few infestors, and not bothered with the broodlords until he had Doom on his toes. I really like this style though, I think I will try it as soon as I fix my A key.

It's stuck whenever I play 4v4. It's fun to type in all caps "amya akaeya ais abraokena, saaorary aaabaouata atahea maaraianaeas."


----------



## yellowtoblerone

lol that dood's stuck.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13547561*
> 
> lol that dood's stuck.


My least favorite thing about playing Terran. I get so mad when that happens, and it happens a lot.


----------



## Dr216

Reading about this custom game, Macro or Die but its only available on NA at the moment, really want to just try it out with my housemates for all our custom games, Any way for me to get hold of it? Or Do i need to Buy me a NA account?

if i do have a NA account will I be able to play with people who only have EU accounts?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13547948*
> Reading about this custom game, Macro or Die but its only available on NA at the moment, really want to just try it out with my housemates for all our custom games, Any way for me to get hold of it? Or Do i need to Buy me a NA account?
> 
> if i do have a NA account will I be able to play with people who only have EU accounts?


No you can't play with people with EU accounts.

The easiest way, if the custom game isn't out in the EU yet, is to contact the developer of the game and ask him if you can 'host' it in Europe for him. You'll need to know a thing or two about the map editor to upload it to battle.net.


----------



## Dr216

damn oh well, the developer has said he will release it once he's ironed out all the bug, which he says will take quite some time as its more or less every single gsl, mlg and ladder map to sort out.


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;13548270*
> No you can't play with people with EU accounts.
> 
> The easiest way, if the custom game isn't out in the EU yet, is to contact the developer of the game and ask him if you can 'host' it in Europe for him. You'll need to know a thing or two about the map editor to upload it to battle.net.


THIIIIIRU! Where you been man? we havent see you on vent in a while. What have you been up to?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;13548898*
> THIIIIIRU! Where you been man? we havent see you on vent in a while. What have you been up to?


He hates us, so, he doesn't come into this thread much anymore


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13547570*
> My least favorite thing about playing Terran. I get so mad when that happens, and it happens a lot.


lol I agree, this happens to me in like every match with T unless I really really plan out where I put my buildings... not fun having to lift off or destroy reactors/labs...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


lol I agree, this happens to me in like every match with T unless I really really plan out where I put my buildings... not fun having to lift off or destroy reactors/labs...


Yeah I had to kill my armory.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm thinking about quitting SCII, but it may be harder than I think.

My reasons for quitting have nothing to do with me thinking I can't get much better, or that I love SCII any less. I'm 27, I need a job and a future and to be as good as I want to be at SCII requires too much time I think.

With all the new Tekken Tag Tournament 2 footage I think it's almost time for me to return to the competitive Tekken community and go back to traveling to different states to play in Tournaments. I feel like being a Tekken fan encourages me to be more productive because I need token money! ha.

I am not a good meet half way kind of guy, so I don't know if I could just play this super casually ( and that includes all the time I watch and read / post about it.

In an ideal world where I could make money doing this things could be different but that's just out of reach. I need health insurance and other things at this point. I got 2 terrible cavities and I haven't been able to get them fixed for like 2 years.


----------



## rhed5

dude u always talk about getting a job; work at mickey d's if you have to. jesus man


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Free milkshakes you know.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Come to Canada, we'll take care of you.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


1: Um it depends on what I'm jumping to? If it's a unit I have hotkeyed I just hit 11 for example and it goes right to it. If it's not hotkeyed its probably just mini-map.

2: I do this so I can jump from base to base to manage it / call down mules. I want to change it so they are all on one hotkey, and switch my fact and port to 6-7 but it's been a hard habit to break. I have "~" as center camera on my CC's.. so now it's just a matter of doing it.

3: If I was Zerg I probably would have used some baneling drops or spent more time trying to stop the PF's. 3 of my PF's had no defense, which means he could have made a bunch of banelings and right clicked them. I think it's a good exchange for Zerg. Also killing any repairing SCV's is important, and perhaps roach burrow movement would have helped.

If you want to see from my first person POV I have some on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A

and yes that's the real Artosis








.


I was watching Artosis stream the other night he isn't that good. I mean he is better then me. I see alot of faults with his game he plays more for fun, then like a idra who plays to win and really has his **** down, he makes mistakes and points them out or try's different builds. He also tends to play on the Korean servers, It's funny to hear the different sounds and noise of each different server. You played well tho. You should get a real job tho. I don't game much due to having a real job. Plus I would rather be at the gym then playing PC games







it's just fun release when I can


----------



## Sainesk

it's over 4000!


















now i'm actually gonna have to play quick match games if I want 5...


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Doom really brought the noise fairly early on and sat right outside his opponent's natural for about 10 minutes. The zerg should have built a ton of roaches and some speedlings and started poking around the map, because there was no way he was going to pierce thor+tank at his front with the little roach forces he kept sending. Mech is really slow, so Doom wouldn't have been able to react fast.

Once Doom got those ghosts it was gg. You can't send your big scary zerg units against ghosts, snipe will rip through them so fast.

I think the zerg should have just gone roach ling with a few infestors, and not bothered with the broodlords until he had Doom on his toes. I really like this style though, I think I will try it as soon as I fix my A key.

It's stuck whenever I play 4v4. It's fun to type in all caps "amya akaeya ais abraokena, saaorary aaabaouata atahea maaraianaeas."


What? All the zerg had to do was scout, which he didn't do at all. He was making banelings, like.. Upgraded Cracklings with Hydra support and neural before the ghosts would have been fine, as well as a few drops to kill gas. There weren't enough tanks to warrant not using hydras. Even 2-3 overseers when the lair finished could have won him the game.

Even for the ghosts, since no one has enough APM to snipe 70 lings.


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*












lolwut?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


dude u always talk about getting a job; work at mickey d's if you have to. jesus man


I'm not that hard off for a job.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Come to Canada, we'll take care of you.


I'd rather work at McDonalds.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*


What? All the zerg had to do was scout, which he didn't do at all. He was making banelings, like.. Upgraded Cracklings with Hydra support and neural before the ghosts would have been fine, as well as a few drops to kill gas. There weren't enough tanks to warrant not using hydras. Even 2-3 overseers when the lair finished could have won him the game.

Even for the ghosts, since no one has enough APM to snipe 70 lings.


That was exactly my point. The zerg should have harassed by drops/running around rather than try and push Doom back up front.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm thinking about quitting SCII, but it may be harder than I think.

My reasons for quitting have nothing to do with me thinking I can't get much better, or that I love SCII any less. I'm 27, I need a job and a future and to be as good as I want to be at SCII requires too much time I think.

With all the new Tekken Tag Tournament 2 footage I think it's almost time for me to return to the competitive Tekken community and go back to traveling to different states to play in Tournaments. I feel like being a Tekken fan encourages me to be more productive because I need token money! ha.

I am not a good meet half way kind of guy, so I don't know if I could just play this super casually ( and that includes all the time I watch and read / post about it.

In an ideal world where I could make money doing this things could be different but that's just out of reach. I need health insurance and other things at this point. I got 2 terrible cavities and I haven't been able to get them fixed for like 2 years.


You've been talking about getting a job since I can remember. Maybe take couple of weeks break from SC2 and just do it. How do you actually maintain yourself?

I've realized I'm not going to be as good at SC2 as I'd like to as I'm 28, doing a Uni (still, lol) and working. Having a holiday at the moment I can devote max 3-4 hours a day to playing and normally it's much less. I'm trying to make the best out of this time though analyzing replays, trying to improve on different things step by step and generally going by quality over quantity rule. Still, I think if you want to be decent you have to practice 6-8 hours a day and that includes only playing games. If you add watching replays, vods and reading forums etc. it's pretty much like a full-time job.

You should probably make I decision if that's something you want to do as I agree that spending most of your time playing a video game without any actual benefit is quite far from productive. On the other hand I think it's quite easy to make profit out of SC2 if you actually get good at it. I've recently heard that Destiny is making $3000 a month just from his stream which is not too shabby given that he's not even that good of a player.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*













Quote:



Originally Posted by *thealex132*


lolwut?


Lalush was trolling about balance during IPL qualifiers, which caused this reaction. Kind of unusual from White-Ra since he's one of the most well mannered players.


----------



## Allenssmart

If anyone really been far even as decided to use 6 pool even go aforementioned 4 player map want to do look more a move like colossi op?


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allenssmart;13556240*
> If anyone really been far even as decided to use 6 pool even go aforementioned 4 player map want to do look more a move like colossi op?


huh?
______________

I lost a ZvT close position on Shattered Temple due to that ridiculous build someone posted on Teamliquid where you do a 3 rax all in. (thread is currently temporarily locked so check on page 2 or 3 on the strategy forum section) You wall in at the bottom of your ramp with a supply depot and Barracks. Then you build two more raxes inside your main. You stop producing SCVs at 12 and build a orbital command and use it to use Call Down: Extra Supplies. That way you can have a ridiculous amount of 27 marines/SCVs charging your base early in the game. I overlord scouted his main and saw 2 rax in his base, but I only had enough time to get one spine crawler out and my zerglings were all melted. Couldn't build a baneling nest in time.

Crazy build because some Grandmaster players were losing to this build.

Also I lost a TvZ on Tal'Darim Altar (big map!) because I didn't have enough turrets, I was too slow on sieging my tanks so I got some of them sniped to mass zerglings. Marines were getting eaten up by banelings. Infestors were fungal growthing my army, and neutral parasiting my thors.

The worst part is mutalisks... my God! I feel like I'm playing BW again. If I don't have my turrets down early enough I'm dead. The mutalisks just roam around freely sniping tanks, destroying my 3rd expo, attack my natural/main. Marines/Thors are only so fast unless I stim them to death. Turret madness!! ahhh...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13550887*
> I'm thinking about quitting SCII, but it may be harder than I think.
> 
> My reasons for quitting have nothing to do with me thinking I can't get much better, or that I love SCII any less. I'm 27, I need a job and a future and to be as good as I want to be at SCII requires too much time I think.
> 
> With all the new Tekken Tag Tournament 2 footage I think it's almost time for me to return to the competitive Tekken community and go back to traveling to different states to play in Tournaments. I feel like being a Tekken fan encourages me to be more productive because I need token money! ha.
> 
> *I am not a good meet half way kind of guy, so I don't know if I could just play this super casually ( and that includes all the time I watch and read / post about it.*
> 
> In an ideal world where I could make money doing this things could be different but that's just out of reach. I need health insurance and other things at this point. I got 2 terrible cavities and I haven't been able to get them fixed for like 2 years.


I have to agree with rhed and poroboszcz on this. You don't really need to stop playing SCII but unless u plan on going pro, you should be focusing on reaching that career that you have in mind. You should be able to land a job easily at some of the big retailers and then move up through the ranks if you put in the time and effort. This will give you time to play SCII on the side, help with money and insurance(if full time, same as Canada I believe) and give you a good starting point









@Bolded I don't see how you can have a problem with playing casual. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can still play SCII in your free time(about 2-3hr daily easily). I just don't see that as being casual at all but its definitely not intensive. That's IMO anyways.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13550962*
> dude u always talk about getting a job; work at mickey d's if you have to. jesus man


nah, he should be able to easily land any starting position then climb up if he wants!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13551208*
> Come to Canada, we'll take care of you.


I dunno, it's a big move from the US if he's lived there for a long time. Given, the people are pretty nice here, decent weather and better eco to boot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13551613*
> it's over 4000!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now i'm actually gonna have to play quick match games if I want 5...


Sweet!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13552197*
> I'd rather work at McDonalds.


lol, what's wrong with Canada? If anything, the Canadian eco is much better off than the US one atm. Guessing the taxes scare you off


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13555799*
> I've recently heard that Destiny is making $3000 a month just from his stream which is not too shabby given that he's not even that good of a player.


You have to remember that Destiny is not only a professional Starcraft 2 player, but also a damn good comedian/troll.


----------



## DoomDash

So after playing and watching 1.3.3 for awhile, here are my current feelings on balance:

Z > P in the first 15 minutes. P > Z late.
T vs Z = balanced
T = to P before 15 minutes. Very Protoss favored late game.


----------



## DoomDash

GSLTL FINALS!!!!

OMG EPIC last game / series


----------



## yks

GSTL Finals:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Why is Cella so good at being awesome? Why is he my favorite?

How is MMA so sick? Why is he the son of boxer, the legend killer, the next iloveoov

How does Boxer do it? He creates championship teams, did it with SKT and now Slayers.

Why do the GSTL finals ALWAYS leave me with blood rushing?


----------



## DoomDash

TvZ in SCII is the best match up ever.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


TvZ in SCII is the best match up ever.


I'm starting to feel out my TvZ better, Now that I've resigned myself to go Muta/ling, then towards late game i make and show like 2 broodlords to get terran to over make Viking then switch to ultra


----------



## QuadDamage

I stomp T as Z if they let me get 1 or 2 base up on them it's just stomping time. It depends if you let the Z Macro it's going to to be a long game it's best to do timing pushes and to kill drones when you can. My favorite to play tho.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;13565374*
> I'm starting to feel out my TvZ better, Now that I've resigned myself to go Muta/ling, then towards late game i make and show like 2 broodlords to get terran to over make Viking then switch to ultra


That's why I get ghosts now







. Snipe > BL, and is pretty god vs Ultra too.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13568447*
> That's why I get ghosts now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Snipe > BL, and is pretty god vs Ultra too.


I doubt you would let zerg get on 4-5 base once that happens its just s-z till everthing is dead


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah I said to myself I wasn't, but I ended laddering for like, six hours.

So many six or eight pool all ins.


----------



## cory1234

PvP is starting to develop into an actual matchup now







.

Barely played this last week, but I've been seeing a bunch of new builds.


----------



## Sainesk

just wanted to double check the best ways to not get supply blocked at the start for non speed builds:

T: depot at 9
Z: extractor trick to 11/10 then lord
P: pylon at 9?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

P: dependent on when you want to scout. If scout early, at 8 food 100 min, which allows you to chrono the next two probes before pylon finishes. Or normal scout time, which means at 9 food, 100 minerals. Make sure you time it so that your probe just finishes gathering minerals, and by the time it gets to the pylon placement you hit 100 min.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13569153*
> just wanted to double check the best ways to not get supply blocked at the start for non speed builds:
> 
> T: depot at *10*
> 
> Z: extractor trick to 11/10 then lord, *9* overlord/*11* overpool..doesn't really matter; I prefer 9 ovie.
> 
> P: pylon at *9*


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13564521*
> TvZ in SCII is the best match up ever.


I dunno about best ever, but, the matchup does seem pretty balanced IMO. Infact, I actually went up against Calm's army consisting of BLs last night with a pure marine+tanks+2 thor army and managed to survive to tell the tale. He got me the next game by all ining using drones+slings+roaches XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;13566345*
> I stomp T as Z if they let me get 1 or 2 base up on them it's just stomping time. It depends if you let the Z Macro it's going to to be a long game it's best to do timing pushes and to kill drones when you can. My favorite to play tho.


If the T opponent keeps making units and harassing your multiple bases(banshees, hellions, marine drops, etc....) then chances are they'll catch up when you are busy remaking drones with a strong push then just continue harassing since you lack the ability to make units(do I make drones since I need some badly or do I make army units to defend, but, resources would run dry?).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13569153*
> just wanted to double check the best ways to not get supply blocked at the start for non speed builds:
> 
> T: depot at 9
> Z: extractor trick to 11/10 then lord
> P: pylon at 9?


You can get an OL for Z at 9 and it shouldn't block you for much time I think. I usually just go for 10 and then get 3 drones as soon as it pops since you end up with about 150 minerals


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Normal mouse sucks.

Get a Razer Naga: extra buttons help so much with control/hotkey access.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Normal mouse sucks.

Get a Razer Naga: extra buttons help so much with control/hotkey access.


My thumbs are too big i would hit all of those at the same time

Although setting a macro for 5-s-d would be nice one hit to drone up lol


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*




















huh?

for T I always go at 9, it doesn't slow down the next scv being produced and finishes just in time for 12...?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Sainesk*  







huh?

for T I always go at 9, it doesn't slow down the next scv being produced and finishes just in time for 12...?  
Then you didn't start an SCV before sending your 6 to mine right at the very start, it should line up that just as your 9th SCV comes out and your 10th is building (10 supply) you throw down a depot.

Start of game goes- CC build SCV -> send to mine with split -> 10 supply depot (if you send your 9th SCV to the ramp it usually lines up with the timing if you want to wall off) ->12 rax->13 refinery -> 15 Orbital Command+constant marines-> 16 depot. Try and get it down that this happens in all your games and you'll find that early pushes like the 6pool get stomped on.

Edit:    
 You Tube  



 
 skip to 2:15


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


CC build SCV










is that the way you're supposed to do it, I figured send scvs first to not lose any mining time is more important...?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*









is that the way you're supposed to do it, I figured send scvs first to not lose any mining time is more important...?


It's either or, but if you don't have fast hand speed getting your SCV started at the CC is more important than taking 4-5 seconds splitting your workers. Go play a 4v4 and look at the timings on other terran players' barracks and depots and also watch the production tab. The people who start their SCV first almost always have a barracks go down first, unless they're cool and want a fast factory so their teammates can lose the game because they have no units 6 minutes into the game.


----------



## Sainesk

ah figures, i was stacking up my 10th scv at 9 before the depot


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


My thumbs are too big i would hit all of those at the same time

Although setting a macro for 5-s-d would be nice one hit to drone up lol


I never even thought of that. I just use 4-0 on the numpad as 890, then 765 as the last row. This allows me to bind builddings to 0-8 on the hotkeys on the mouse, and then various units to 1-6/7. Free up much so I never 1A.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


Then you didn't start an SCV before sending your 6 to mine right at the very start, it should line up that just as your 9th SCV comes out and your 10th is building (10 supply) you throw down a depot.

Start of game goes- CC build SCV -> send to mine with split -> 10 supply depot (if you send your 9th SCV to the ramp it usually lines up with the timing if you want to wall off) ->12 rax->13 refinery -> 15 Orbital Command+constant marines-> 16 depot. Try and get it down that this happens in all your games and you'll find that early pushes like the 6pool get stomped on.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX8X9WkMwMQ skip to 2:15


Hmm any more videos like this but with other builds and other races builds?


----------



## yks

macro'ing a key to do more than 1 action is against the TOS and could get you banned.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You and your "rules".


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


macro'ing a key to do more than 1 action is against the TOS and could get you banned.


exactly how are they going to tell, the macro issues the exact same command as pressing 5 then s then d. The only way blizzard with ever ban people for using macro's is if they start watching you over your shoulder while you play.

Hell blizz aren't exactly having a huge success banning map hackers I think macros are the least of their worries.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*









is that the way you're supposed to do it, I figured send scvs first to not lose any mining time is more important...?


This is what I do. Double click a probe (or highlight) and send them to work. Then pick the nexus and press e (to produce a probe) then assign it to hotkey #5 and set my way point

.......... how can starting the probe be more important than getting the first ones to working


----------



## Eskanasi

I have a question.

I've been watching some pro games recently and quite a number of players control group their cc or nexus to 0, 9, 8, etc. My question is why such high numbers? tapping those buttons takes your hand very far away from all your hotkeys unless they're using a really different setup to me (I use all defaults).


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.overclock.net/video-games...l#post13572096 I posted this in the video game section, and as a fighting game competitive player I thought it was cool to see the fighitng game side of e-sports.

SCII is mentioned in this video.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eskanasi*


I have a question.

I've been watching some pro games recently and quite a number of players control group their cc or nexus to 0, 9, 8, etc. My question is why such high numbers? tapping those buttons takes your hand very far away from all your hotkeys unless they're using a really different setup to me (I use all defaults).


Probably BW veterans.

In BW, you can only have 1 building on a key, so 7-0 were normally Nexus' as P was Probe back then instead of E. "7p8p9p0p F2-macro 1,1" was how I used to bounce my fingers.

It's hard to change muscle memory especially at pro-level where they have more repetition.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eskanasi*


I have a question.

I've been watching some pro games recently and quite a number of players control group their cc or nexus to 0, 9, 8, etc. My question is why such high numbers? tapping those buttons takes your hand very far away from all your hotkeys unless they're using a really different setup to me (I use all defaults).


they will have custom mapped the keybinds for sure, but also the higher level you play the more you will need way more control groups for units. you often used to see BW pro's swap to 2 hands on the keyboard at times.


----------



## CravinR1

also you can click the icon for the control group and not press the button


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


.......... how can starting the probe be more important than getting the first ones to working


I forgot where I saw the math thread but starting the worker first gets you I think it was 10-25 extra minerals (pending on when you get gas) compared to sending the workers first.

If you send your workers first, yes, you have your *INITIAL* 5 mining faster - but your 6th (and ergo your 7th, 8th, 9th, etc all the way up to 16) is delayed. So that's 10 tiny-little-delays before you reach full saturation (since the 6th to 16th probe is slightly slower)

Versus someone creating a worker first and then sending the initial 5 to work. That is only 1 tiny delay (the initial 5) while the 6th to 16th is seamless and on time.

So it's 10 tiny-delays (13/16 if you get gas) vs 1 tiny delay before full saturation.

Being delayed once is better than 10 to 16 times.

But then again it's only 10-25 minerals.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


also you can click the icon for the control group and not press the button


Sorry, no one clicks control group icons.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


exactly how are they going to tell, the macro issues the exact same command as pressing 5 then s then d. The only way blizzard with ever ban people for using macro's is if they start watching you over your shoulder while you play.

Hell blizz aren't exactly having a huge success banning map hackers I think macros are the least of their worries.


I'm not saying you'll get caught, people probably do - do it. I'm just saying it's against the TOS. That's 2 different things.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I forgot where I saw the math thread but starting the worker first gets you I think it was 10-25 extra minerals (pending on when you get gas) compared to sending the workers first.

If you send your workers first, yes, you have your *INITIAL* 5 mining faster - but your 6th (and ergo your 7th, 8th, 9th, etc all the way up to 16) is delayed. So that's 10 tiny-little-delays before you reach full saturation (since the 6th to 16th probe is slightly slower)

Versus someone creating a worker first and then sending the initial 5 to work. That is only 1 tiny delay (the initial 5) while the 6th to 16th is seamless and on time.

So it's 10 tiny-delays (13/16 if you get gas) vs 1 tiny delay before full saturation.

Being delayed once is better than 10 to 16 times.

But then again it's only 10-25 minerals.


I disagree. You're having 5 workers sit idle while you start one, where you could put 5 to work then start one a second later.

I don't press control group icons, but you can


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I disagree. You're having 5 workers sit idle while you start one, where you could put 5 to work then start one a second later.

I don't press control group icons, but you can


It doesn't matter if you disagree. It's math and an equation, which is fact.

If you use 1 second as the variable in the time between sending the 5 workers and creating the 6th.

Then the 6th probe will mine 1 second slower, then the 7th probe will mine 1 second slower. Until the 16th probe comes out, you will be 15 mining seconds worth slower than someone who made a worker first.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I disagree. You're having 5 workers sit idle while you start one, where you could put 5 to work then start one a second later.

I don't press control group icons, but you can


Agree with yks on this one, recall reading a thread that creating a worker is more advantageous in the long run than sending them to work. As for control groups, I would hope no one presses them


----------



## yks

I just try to help people get better.

If you don't trust me or my insanely good math skillzzz, all good, you don't got to trust me - i'm just a guy.

But trust the pros who get paid because there's a reason why they do half the things they do.


----------



## onoz

cool.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I forgot where I saw the math thread but starting the worker first gets you I think it was 10-25 extra minerals (pending on when you get gas) compared to sending the workers first.


so this is why I'm not in master's yet!









and about 10 million other reasons...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eskanasi;13572125*
> I have a question.
> 
> I've been watching some pro games recently and quite a number of players control group their cc or nexus to 0, 9, 8, etc. My question is why such high numbers? tapping those buttons takes your hand very far away from all your hotkeys unless they're using a really different setup to me (I use all defaults).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13572252*
> they will have custom mapped the keybinds for sure, but also the higher level you play the more you will need way more control groups for units. you often used to see BW pro's swap to 2 hands on the keyboard at times.


Yup.

However that's why I posted the mouse, and also talked about the extra macro buttons blackwidow/g15/19/510 has. IT allows you to map 8-0 buttons with easy access by either your left hand's fingers without moving all the way to the centre of the key board. Or if you have a Naga, you have all the control (say 4-5 control worth of buildings or units) controlled by your thumb.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13572423*
> I disagree. You're having 5 workers sit idle while you start one, where you could put 5 to work then start one a second later.
> 
> I don't press control group icons, but you can


Well, each scv receives 50 m/m on the close patchs and 40 m/m on the far patches. So even if you delay by one second in sending them to the minerals, the actual mining loss is quite small compared to delaying all worker production from there and out.

One thing that annoy the heck out of me is if I accidentally double clicked my workers and select all of them to do something which was meant to be for one only. Is there a way to turn it off in options or script edition so that when I double click any unit, it doesn't select all in its class on screen?

Thanks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13575768*
> so this is why I'm not in master's yet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and about 10 million other reasons...


Yes indeed!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13572630*
> I just try to help people get better.
> 
> If you don't trust me or my *insanely good math skillzzz*, all good, you don't got to trust me - i'm just a guy.
> 
> But trust the pros who get paid because there's a reason why they do half the things they do.


hehe, what about grammar skills? Sorry, couldn't help it


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13578313*
> Yes indeed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hehe, what about grammar skills? Sorry, couldn't help it


You don't need grammar in SC2 just leet apm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;13579057*
> You don't need grammar in SC2 *just leet apm*


nah, you don't need crazy APM in SCII like BW.
NASL on atm if anyone is interested, NaDa's playing TvsT!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13579240*
> *nah, you don't need crazy APM* in SCII like BW.
> NASL on atm if anyone is interested, NaDa's playing TvsT!


You do. It's just better allocated.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13579258*
> You do. It's just better allocated.


Thing is, you need APM for multiple drops, etc.... but something 60-80 is more than enough to get into masters at which point APM matters most, otherwise it's mostly macro with some micro in the lower leagues


----------



## ntherblast

Is it me or is the promotion system in this game broken atm?


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## yellowtoblerone

Why's he raging, if you mamaship rush he can just come and kill you.

Anyone got an answer for me regarding double clicks?


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, no rage at all, just a frinedly chat, but it made me lol since it's kinda true.









Regarding your problem - just improve your mechanics. Alternatively you can change double-click settings in windows to make it less sensitive.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So I'm anal. I'm currently gathering the math for mineral patches...

Btw that double click in windows doesn't work.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13579638*


Goes well with your avatar


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nah, you don't need crazy APM in SCII like BW. 
NASL on atm if anyone is interested, NaDa's playing TvsT!










To this 40-50apm silver leaguer , the 100+ that most pros have and the 60-70 master leaguers have is leet ;-D


----------



## Sainesk

I'm bored and want to make some sc2 models, however i'm not very skilled at wood/metal work, any recommendations?

ideas so far: minecraft, play doh, lego, etc. lol.









actually I can do balloon animals... hrrrrm how to do a balloon marine...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I'm bored and want to make some sc2 models, however i'm not very skilled at wood/metal work, any recommendations?

ideas so far: minecraft, play doh, lego, etc. lol.









actually I can do balloon animals... hrrrrm how to do a balloon marine...










Get onto SCII, I await your arrival to continue our cheese fest from 2 nights back









Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


To this 40-50apm silver leaguer , the 100+ that most pros have and the 60-70 master leaguers have is leet ;-D


Well, I usually average mid 70s with Z and mid 50s with T/P, possibly a bit more if the game is intense, so, meh


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


To this 40-50apm silver leaguer , the 100+ that most pros have and the 60-70 master leaguers have is leet ;-D


You'd be surprised how much APM you can have when your trying. When I'm in a tournament I can easily do 150+ for the entire game.

During ladder I probably average ~80-100.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


You'd be surprised how much APM you can have when your trying. When I'm in a tournament I can easily do 150+ for the entire game.

During ladder I probably average ~80-100.


Yes, but, the question is, how much of that is useful? As in, are you just moving an OL to a specific location and click like 7 times like I've seen the pros do or do you click once and move on to something else?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, but, the question is, how much of that is useful? As in, are you just moving an OL to a specific location and click like 7 times like I've seen the pros do or do you click once and move on to something else?










Both. I used to hate on the "fake" apm, but it really actually helps you mid-late game. Spamming at the start for me helps me loosen up, and be faster throughout the rest of the game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


Both. I used to hate on the "fake" apm, but it really actually helps you mid-late game. Spamming at the start for me helps me loosen up, and be faster throughout the rest of the game.


true









Interesting read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=224960


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


true









Interesting read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=224960


wow that is still a problem?

holy damn.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I've done some calculations and here are the math; It is what a single harvester gets per patch per minute.

Q: Why Is This Important?

A: It's not, not really. However if you want to gain a small advantage in a game, it can tell you certain things. Things like:

Which patches should I double saturate before other patches?
Which drones should I pull off to make buildings affecting harvesting the least?
Which patches should I be MULE-ing for the most minerals?
Am I that anal? [And if you're paying attention to the above during games, yes, yes you (I) are (am)].























































- Backwater/thyphon/scrap aren't listed as I don't play those maps
- Most maps are symmetrical, however Shattered Temple isn't symetrical (thus different min/min/patch)
- There may be difference min/min/harvester/patch with zerg dependent on base tech (hatch/lair/hive), however do not have enough data to determine statistical significance
- The uncertainty of each result is +/- 0.25. The uncertainty of this uncertainty result is +/-0.50 (not true).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Interesting read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=224960



This may be the reason why I saw so much inconsisitency while testing Zerg! I spent such a long time on different maps, diff locations trying to figure it out.


----------



## BountyHead

that explains why i can never seem to kill the damn probe or scv early scout


----------



## DoomDash

131 apm in a 26 min TvT, pretty good for me







. I can get that in TvP or TvZ sometimes but normally not TvT.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13586725*
> 131 apm in a 26 min TvT, pretty good for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I can get that in TvP or TvZ sometimes but normally not TvT.


nice









Anyone on here(aside from jedi) played the marine split challenge? Basically, you start with 30 marines then proceed through each level by surviving against a group of speed banes on creep. Each level adds more banes. I made it to level 12, almost 13 which was a 27 banes vs. 30 marines battle


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13588267*
> nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone on here(aside from jedi) played the marine split challenge? Basically, you start with 30 marines then proceed through each level by surviving against a group of speed banes on creep. Each level adds more banes. I made it to level 12, almost 13 which was a 27 banes vs. 30 marines battle


It's fun, but not very realistic. I think there's a way to add in zerglings (like there would usually be) which makes it a lot tougher. I made it to the even marine vs baneling count before I lost. Stim, start moving far away and then pull slices off and patrol them in sideways directions. Works really well because your ball of marines gets cut into strips that stop one at a time for the banelings that get closest that can then collapse in to kil off the smaller group of banelings. But as soon as you add in zerglings you can't do it that way anymore, need to do the more normal splits.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;13588648*
> It's fun, but not very realistic. I think there's a way to add in zerglings (like there would usually be) which makes it a lot tougher. I made it to the even marine vs baneling count before I lost. Stim, start moving far away and then pull slices off and *patrol them in sideways directions*. Works really well because your ball of marines gets cut into strips that stop one at a time for the banelings that get closest that can then collapse in to kil off the smaller group of banelings. But as soon as you add in zerglings you can't do it that way anymore, need to do the more normal splits.


I didn't patrol to get to lvl 12. Level 5 is considered a cost efficient trade according to the guy who made the map. You can add slings by typing "slings". It's not realistic because you wouldn't engage on creep, you'll have slings, tanks, etc.... not just a marine vs. speed bane battle, but, its good for practice









Edit: ROFL @ that last match between Catz and whoever it was XD


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



6 rax FTW!


----------



## Sainesk

hey Doom, and other Terran players, for putting early game pressure against P mainly with Barracks, what would you advise? 1 with reactor 1 without, 1 with tech lab 1 with reactor, or something else?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


hey Doom, and other Terran players, for putting early game pressure against P mainly with Barracks, what would you advise? 1 with reactor 1 without, 1 with tech lab 1 with reactor, or something else?


I think a quick tech lab(for marauders) with a marine or two is usually what I've seen from pro games. I've tried 2 rax against P, let's just say I should've waited until I had all 8 marines instead of attacking using two at a time then regrouping survivors XD
Having said that, I almost took a P out(or really crippled his army production) if he didn't get that last sentry









BTW, are you planning to play some SCII atm?


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


hey Doom, and other Terran players, for putting early game pressure against P mainly with Barracks, what would you advise? 1 with reactor 1 without, 1 with tech lab 1 with reactor, or something else?


1 Gate fast expand is really popular right now on the North America server. Get concussive shell, staring with a marine before tech lab, one marauder, then one rine, and pressure with those 3 units along with 2-3 scvs, while expanding behind it. It's really cost effective against any 1 gate FE builds. Obviously if you scout more than 2 gates, never try to go up the ramp.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


1 Gate Rax expand is really popular right now on the North America server. Get concussive shell, staring with a marine before tech lab, one marauder, then one rine, and pressure with those 3 units along with 2-3 scvs, while expanding behind it. It's really cost effective against any 1 gate FE builds. Obviously if you scout more than 2 gates, never try to go up the ramp.


Edit: Rax







Ugh. Stupid Transformer, mis-tap double post :/.


----------



## l337sft

Streaming gold 2v2s

http://www.livestream.com/leetumations

Also http://www.livestream.com/bawlzdeep

EDIT: Bawlzdeep got tired and went to bed, sorry guys, will be streaming tomorrow though









Also, if anyone knows a better way of being able to stream with better quality that would be awesome







I run the game at around 40 fps, while the stream has around 30-35. Just wish i could have better quality


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


hey Doom, and other Terran players, for putting early game pressure against P mainly with Barracks, what would you advise? 1 with reactor 1 without, 1 with tech lab 1 with reactor, or something else?


I usually go 1 marine, tech lab, 2nd rax tech lab, then double pump rauders with shells and send 4 scvs and start building bunkers right at their expansion. I've had pretty good success with it.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13595534*
> I usually go 1 marine, tech lab, 2nd rax tech lab, then double pump rauders with shells and send 4 scvs and start building bunkers right at their expansion. I've had pretty good success with it.


nice thanks, so in general it's better to go rauders then trying to mass marines to push before they have 4 gate/robo up?


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know if its better, but once you get those bunkers up at his nexus with rauders you are almost impossible to break.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13596441*
> I don't know if its better, but once you get those bunkers up at his nexus with rauders you are almost impossible to break.


hmm, wouldn't it be a better idea to just pressure, take out his pylon(s) then add more units as you harass and eventually take the game?









Edit: Just had some fun but long games with CalmStorm, TvsZ and PvsZ games FTW!








First game, PvsZ on ST:

Fun game, not as long as the second one though. First time trying a 3WG expand









Second game, TvsZ on meta:

This game took forever to finish and I don't mean that in a good way XD


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13596441*
> I don't know if its better, but once you get those bunkers up at his nexus with rauders you are almost impossible to break.


I've been doing this too. So good! What do you do against one base collosus?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


I've been doing this too. So good! What do you do against one base collosus?



Rarely play against this anymore. I wouldn't alter my 2 rax FE for it, besides maybe getting vikings faster.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Rarely play against this anymore. I wouldn't alter my 2 rax FE for it, besides maybe getting vikings faster.


I recall reading that constantly pressuring the P player with marines and trading armies then sniping the first colossi if it even comes out works well. Experience?^^


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I recall reading that constantly pressuring the P player with marines and trading armies then sniping the first colossi if it even comes out works well. Experience?^^


Nah, I don't think so. I mean exchanging isn't terrible vs Protoss because you can keep sentry counts low, but Terran units are also good in big balls. I prefer a stim timing push.


----------



## Crazykirsch

Super Tournament starts tonight. Are you ready?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13600182*
> Nah, I don't think so. I mean exchanging isn't terrible vs Protoss because you can keep sentry counts low, but Terran units are also good in big balls. I prefer a stim timing push.


kk, I see. I know there was a thread on TL talking about how the constant exchange makes it difficult for the P to even get colossi which hard counter marines and having the P get sentries/stalkers becomes harder due to needing gas compared to T









Went back on Calm, if you wanna have some more games XD


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazykirsch;13600204*
> Super Tournament starts tonight. Are you ready?


I'm ready! =DDD


----------



## OrangeBunnies

I used the search function to see if anyone had posted this before and couldn't find anything, so I hope this is not a re-post. If not a re-post, I am quite surprised no one has mentioned LagTV , these guys are hilarious casters, mostly lower level (below diamond) ladders and their popular "when cheese fails" series, my personal favorite







:

  
 You Tube


----------



## PixelFreakz

I just got my A$$ kicked by FXO.qxc... g'damn haha. I dont wanna even post the replay its soo sad rofl.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Just don't youtube it. I don't know why but 720p and up just doesn't work on youtube atm.


----------



## PixelFreakz

Im just happy to say that my first season 2 loss was to a pro haha. He did an scv all-in


----------



## OrangeBunnies

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13600975*
> Just don't youtube it. I don't know why but 720p and up just doesn't work on youtube atm.


Mine is working perfectly, check your bandwidth or maybe re-install adobe flash.


----------



## cory1234

@Bigfan: http://bit.ly/kM5DW4

PvP one o one. (Fake Kiwi obviously)

Terrible APM on my part. I could've easily been closer to 175-200 if I was going all out lulz.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cory1234*


@Bigfan: http://bit.ly/kM5DW4

PvP one o one. (Fake Kiwi obviously)


Thanks Cory









Edit: Idra against Zenio, ZvsZ on ST, interesting ending on NASL.


----------



## yks

Zenio / Idra on NASL is sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Zenio / Idra on NASL is sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


ouch, so, umm what just happened?


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


ouch, so, umm what just happened?










Zenio raped Idra's butthole that's what happened


----------



## l337sft

Streaming









http://www.livestream.com/leetumations


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13602571*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Zenio raped Idra's butthole that's what happened


Nah.. Zenio flipped a coin. He was already up a game, and was down in the second. He made a huge risk getting early infestors, and it paid off because he could afford to lose the second game, unlike Idra who had to win. Idra played too safe, and it cost him the game.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13603939*
> Nah.. Zenio flipped a coin. He was already up a game, and was down in the second. He made a huge risk getting early infestors, and it paid off because he could afford to lose the second game, unlike Idra who had to win. Idra played too safe, and it cost him the game.


I know, I know. I just like to exaggerate when it comes to Idra losing. And was too lazy to type in-depth.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's going on atm?


----------



## yks

GSL Supertournament!~!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I found a potential hacker on bnet:



He won, so he's hacking for sure.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I've experienced his hacking first hand.


----------



## Eskanasi

nice new dp doomdash.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eskanasi;13605440*
> nice new dp doomdash.


double penetration ?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13605187*
> I found a potential hacker on bnet:
> 
> 
> 
> He won, so he's hacking for sure.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13605335*
> Yeah I've experienced his hacking first hand.


I've experienced his hacking on multiple occasions.

Banshee's my DT build three times in a row. HAX


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13605187*
> I found a potential hacker on bnet:
> 
> 
> 
> He won, so he's hacking for sure.


Interesting army composition choice. Lategame 0-0 zealots are well know from ripping through roach hydra armies.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13605187*
> I found a potential hacker on bnet:
> 
> 
> 
> He won, so he's hacking for sure.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13605335*
> Yeah I've experienced his hacking first hand.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13605558*
> I've experienced his hacking on multiple occasions.
> Banshee's my DT build three times in a row. HAX


I have also experienced his hacking first hand. Disappointing that such a person exists to ruin this lovely game for us








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13606666*
> Interesting army composition choice. Lategame 0-0 zealots are well know from ripping through roach hydra armies.


----------



## IIowa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13366693*
> they scaled them down probably because battle cruisers and carriers would take up half the map if they werent scaled down


****, they should have left them full size. I like realism games. I cant play this peter-pan, a space ship is the size of a person stuff


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Tried neural parasite against a mothership rush. What a massacre. The toss were surrounded and trapped by lings and roaches they couldn't even see.
I never knew the cloaking effect hid buildings. The toss army couldn't see my infestation pit.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13607372*
> Tried neural parasite against a mothership rush. What a massacre. The toss were surrounded and trapped by lings and roaches they couldn't even see.
> I never knew the cloaking effect hid buildings. The toss army couldn't see my infestation pit.


Yes, cloak hides everything


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13607372*
> Tried neural parasite against a mothership rush. What a massacre. The toss were surrounded and trapped by lings and roaches they couldn't even see.
> I never knew the cloaking effect hid buildings. The toss army couldn't see my infestation pit.
> 
> LOL nice never seen that before


----------



## l337sft

Streaming again







www.livestream.com/leetumations


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ watching you bro!


----------



## l337sft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;13608705*
> ^^ watching you bro!


Sorry dude, the stream was making my game run like crap, im about to go back online but i gotta lower the quality a bit.

EDIT: Back online.

Just lost to those cloaked banshees, could have gone much different if i had detection. But 3 minutes for cloak?! Thats insane


----------



## QuadDamage

Dude is ranked #4 Bronze LEVEL

LEGIT!


----------



## l337sft

Chill, lol, im getting better, shoulda seen me a month ago. Regardless of what league im in, im still having fun. And im honestly not that bad, i try my best. Not to mention that i play maybe 4 or 5 games every other day. I just started really like hardcore grinding out games


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13607372*
> Tried neural parasite against a mothership rush. What a massacre. The toss were surrounded and trapped by lings and roaches they couldn't even see.
> I never knew the cloaking effect hid buildings. The toss army couldn't see my infestation pit.


That was one of my worries while playing jedwin the game on shakuras.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13606666*
> Interesting army composition choice. Lategame 0-0 zealots are well know from ripping through roach hydra armies.


I went 8 gate, teched to dt on two base. I had no intention of going to late game and didn't bother rebuilding the forge after the first push. By the time everything settled and I was trying to remacro up, I had to build an army first before upgrades; And he had to rebuild his drone count.


----------



## l337sft

As protoss i lose to terran, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. Getting so frustrated.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13612673*
> As protoss i lose to terran, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. Getting so frustrated.


You're doing something seriously wrong than. PvT is heavily toss favored after the mid game.


----------



## SheepMoose

Just got the game yesterday and I cannot for the love of anything keep my minerals down.









Any tips on doing that? Should I create less drones?


----------



## l337sft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose;13612983*
> Just got the game yesterday and I cannot for the love of anything keep my minerals down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips on doing that? Should I create less drones?


Dont create less drones, just spend it, expo, make units, get upgrades. You gotta use hotkeys to survive in the game.

Ive been playing for about 7 months now, and i still have a little trouble keeping mine all the way down. Just keep playing, watch lots and lots of day9 and peoples streams. Especially streams where they commentate.

If youd like ill spectate a game of yours and like.. kinda coach you as you play, starcraft is a lot to keep up with, but when you realize everything that needs to be done, you will get a lot better.

Its hard to keep up with everything, especially microing and macroing at the same time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13612701*
> You're doing something seriously wrong than. PvT is heavily toss favored after the mid game.


I have such a hard time, like against a turtling terran i do what youre supposed to and expand like crazy, but like.. ive invested money into expanding and then i have like no units. I think its just my build, i think i should start going phoenix or void ray more often because i lose to tanks all the time, they just chew me up, even when i have collosi, they just get vikings and own my collosi while the tanks just destroy my army from a distance.

Ive been playing for 8 hours, i havent had one pvp, 90% pvz and 10% pvt.


----------



## DoomDash

You know who is good at pulling wins out of his ass? Jediwin. I can't even keep track of how many times he's squeaked a victory from me.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13614411*
> You know who is good at pulling wins out of his ass? Jediwin. I can't even keep track of how many times he's squeaked a victory from me.


Man, playing/watching Jediwin play is like.. Freiza from DBZ.

He only starts off with like 10% of his skill to test his opponents.

Then the more pressure he is under the better he plays. Normally people crack under pressure, but Jediwin gets better!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13614411*
> You know who is good at pulling wins out of his ass? Jediwin. I can't even keep track of how many times he's squeaked a victory from me.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13615092*
> Man, playing/watching Jediwin play is like.. Freiza from DBZ.
> 
> He only starts off with like 10% of his skill to test his opponents.
> 
> Then the more pressure he is under the better he plays. Normally people crack under pressure, but Jediwin gets better!


rofl, but, I can't deny he's good







Remember that one TvsT game where I decided to constantly pressure him with marines on ST close positions(6,9). He somehow managed to get a cloaked banshee even though he was spending money just to defend and with no detection, I lost XD

New small patch: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225994


----------



## bawlzdeep

Streaming protoss platinum ladder 1v1

www.livestream.com/bawlzdeep


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13615092*
> Man, playing/watching Jediwin play is like.. Freiza from DBZ.
> 
> He only starts off with like 10% of his skill to test his opponents.
> 
> Then the more pressure he is under the better he plays. Normally people crack under pressure, but Jediwin gets better!


It's also called "hacking". Somehow he pulls it off without detection from bnet.


----------



## SheepMoose

I've got a guest pass I want to give to my friend but I can't lend him my disc to install the game. What's the best course of action here?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose;13616738*
> I've got a guest pass I want to give to my friend but I can't lend him my disc to install the game. What's the best course of action here?


he can make a battle.net account and download it from there (where he has to register the key anyway...).


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose;13612983*
> Just got the game yesterday and I cannot for the love of anything keep my minerals down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips on doing that? Should I create less drones?


If you are strugling to keep the money down, keep expanding, if that is not practical then macro hatch (extra hatch not on a mineral line) and get double evo, if you still cant keep your money down then I would guess your not being pressured enough and as such are not being forced to build army try being a little aggressive,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13612673*
> As protoss i lose to terran, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. Getting so frustrated.


What stage of the game? Im only plat at the moment so this may well not hold true later but I rarely struggle vs T and P is my weakest race.

Basically what I do is get early +1 armour depending on how agressive he is opening I either match him for an expo or match his rax production with gates, if i expand I get a fast double forge and double upgrade while either teching to templar or colosi to deal with his BIO ball I also like to mix in a few Voids and pheonixes to harrass and take care of as many medivacs as possible, I also nice to force him to build vikings when your not useing colosus. After that I just try and catch the army out of position and try and deny expansions as much as possible starve him out, remember at 200/200 you want to massively overbuild production facilities especially gateways so you can warp in a whole new army super fast if yours ever dies.

If he is perpetually one basing (which from what ive seen is very common in bronze) then I expand more aggressively (that doesn't mean rush the expansions else he will come out on a one base timing attack and kill you keep up army production just try and get as many safe "free" expansions as possible) and never ever attack a terran head on unless your economy is 10 bajillion times bigger than his and you can afford to throw away armies. Siege tanks with positional advantage are really really good. Try and force him out of position with warp prism drops or pushing multiple bases, his Bio is pretty mobile but reasonably vulnerable without the comparatively immobile tanks try to take advantage of that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13616496*
> It's also called "hacking". Somehow he pulls it off without detection from bnet.


Others would call it Korean mode. He starts losing but then he calls to his Korean energy to get +50 apm and win. Not really fair to be honest. I hear once he enters Korean mode he just sees 1's and 0's.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13616496*
> It's also called "hacking". Somehow he pulls it off without detection from bnet.


Do you mean he literally cheats? How?


----------



## yks

No he doesn't cheat. Unless you count when he goes super saiyan


----------



## Nevaziah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;13618245*
> Do you mean he literally cheats? How?


No no no, he just has an unfair built in 'biological' advantage called the Korean genome, which most of us unfortunate souls do not posses.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;13618343*
> No no no, he just has an unfair built in 'biological' advantage called the Korean genome, which most of us unfortunate souls do not posses.


This. Not fair.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13616496*
> It's also called "hacking". Somehow he pulls it off without detection from bnet.


busted









but seriosuly, in desperate situations i just seem to get really lucky


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13618562*
> busted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but seriosuly, in desperate situations i just seem to get really lucky


It seems lucky, but when you do it almost every game I think you can no longer call it luck.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13618569*
> It seems lucky, but when you do it almost every game I think you can longer call it luck.


i will eventually run out of luck/tricks, and all of you guys will just adjust.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13618599*
> i will eventually run out of luck/tricks, and all of you guys will just adjust.


We have no Korean overdrive mode.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13618083*
> Others would call it Korean mode. He starts losing but then he calls to his Korean energy to get +50 apm and win. Not really fair to be honest. I hear once he enters Korean mode he just sees 1's and 0's.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nevaziah;13618343*
> No no no, he just has an unfair built in 'biological' advantage called the Korean genome, which most of us unfortunate souls do not posses.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13618603*
> We have no Korean overdrive mode.


rofl, these would make for a good story


----------



## Mwarren

Bigfan, want to help me study for my SC2 finals?


----------



## QuadDamage

Man, I need to work on my mid game. As Terran I'm really good about walling off vs Zerg and I rush into 2 cloaked banishes, killed off all of his drones at his 2ed and 1/2 of his drones at the main, but when I microing I need to build at my base and I can't do both. I had like 1200 mins and only 1/1/1 to pump units out and lost to a all in roach counter vs high level diamond play zerg. I'm in plat but I feel like I play gold level, I'll get there

What are you guys using for Hotkeys?


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Bigfan, want to help me study for my SC2 finals?


oh look, it's sovern howdy bro, i can tutor u if you want.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


Man, I need to work on my mid game. As Terran I'm really good about walling off vs Zerg and I rush into 2 cloaked banishes, killed off all of his drones at his 2ed and 1/2 of his drones at the main, but when I microing I need to build at my base and I can't do both. I had like 1200 mins and only 1/1/1 to pump units out and lost to a all in roach counter vs high level diamond play zerg. I'm in plat but I feel like I play gold level, I'll get there

What are you guys using for Hotkeys?


I think rushing to cloaked banshees isn't a good idea as in, against Terran, I usually will get a quick evo(as fast as i remember XD) and lay down 2 spores and having queens ready. If the opponent goes banshees, I'm usually ready. Given, I lost a ZvsT game on meta two days back, when i had one spore and my opponent had 3 banshees. Was able to resist until to a point but then he rolled my slings+hydras army using marine+banshees









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Bigfan, want to help me study for my SC2 finals?


tbh, I don't know how much help I would be considering my league. However, if I'm online and you want have a 1vs1 or test something, I'm up for that) I would take up jedi on his offer though







He'll help you train better than I would


----------



## DoomDash

Not SCII related, but I'd like my fellow SCII players to know Witcher 2 is a must buy!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'd wait for it to come out on consoles.

If you thought ME2 was a must buy, then I guess Witcher 2 is a must buy as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I'd wait for it to come out on consoles.

If you thought ME2 was a must buy, then I guess Witcher 2 is a must buy as well.


I didn't like ME1 and 2 at all....

also why would you wait for console? It's best on PC.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The witcher 2 is that (me) type of game, from choices, politics, to combat (as much as you can compare guns vs swords). It's best played with a console controller. The character moves like GTA4. It's got one view setting like ME, unlike the original Witcher. The game was made with the console experience in mind.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


The witcher 2 is that (me) type of game, from choices, politics, to combat (as much as you can compare guns vs swords). It's best played with a console controller. The character moves like GTA4. It's got one view setting like ME, unlike the original Witcher. The game was made with the console experience in mind.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's an action rpg like ME (or diablo some say). It's not a full rpg, nor a full action game. Problem is, it's not a full meal of both accounts but when you put it together it's leaves you full. For old school rpg fans like me and a fan of the first Witcher, it leads a lot to be desired. For actual skill based combat fan like me, I absolutely hate it. It's length is more or less ambiguous. It's, for sure, shorter than the first game, by a lot. Even if you count the different choices leading to the mid game.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


It's an action rpg like ME (or diablo some say). It's not a full rpg, nor a full action game. Problem is, it's not a full meal of both accounts but when you put it together it's leaves you full. For old school rpg fans like me and a fan of the first Witcher, it leads a lot to be desired. For actual skill based combat fan like me, I absolutely hate it. It's length is more or less ambiguous. It's, for sure, shorter than the first game, by a lot. Even if you count the different choices leading to the mid game.


It does play very well with a controller , I beat the game on normal with my Razer Onza . I think for my second play through of the game I will use KB/M mostly because the inventory management is so awe full with the controller.

I also agree it seemed much shorter.


----------



## Dr216

not Started witcher 2 yet, been too busy doing ng+++ on demon souls


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13624028*
> not Started witcher 2 yet, been too busy doing ng+++ on demon souls


Yellow can't say I agree with you. You sound like a nostalgic purist.

Demon Souls was sick.

Anyway we should probably get back to SCII discussion now







.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13624349*
> Demon Souls was sick.
> 
> Anyway we should probably get back to SCII discussion now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


it is indeed sir, got it 2 weeks ago and have more or less played it in all of my free time since. Ahh the joys of being recently single, im still reveling in all the free time









Been doing like a game a day on sc2 to stop myself getting uber bad and droping back to gold when i come back


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226236

Sick article.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13624835*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226236
> 
> Sick article.


I wish SC2 was like that. Serious.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I can't believe ppl still fudging dt rush... Go back to bronze.

On some maps TvP is so T favoured early.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13624349*
> Yellow can't say I agree with you. You sound like a nostalgic purist.
> 
> Demon Souls was sick.
> 
> Anyway we should probably get back to SCII discussion now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


On what points? I'm just looking at it from an objective view. I'm not saying the game is bad. I'm merely talking for what it is. It's a good game, that's catered to the last generation of console-ized gamers. It will play better on a controller. Oh and the crafting system is a joke. I also like how you have to wait 15-30 seconds just to see what materials are needed for each recipe before you decide to buy.

BTW check me out beating up some chicks. Woman beater:

http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/1005218-official-witcher-2-information-discussion-thread-88.html#post13622770


----------



## Mwarren

I couldnt get into ME or The Witcher. Both games are way too easy and leave a lot to be desired. If I want to play a RPG it has to be a real RPG like Baulders Gate or NwN.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13625357*
> I can't believe ppl still fudging dt rush... Go back to bronze.
> 
> On some maps TvP is so T favoured early.
> 
> On what points? I'm just looking at it from an objective view. I'm not saying the game is bad. I'm merely talking for what it is. It's a good game, that's catered to the last generation of console-ized gamers. It will play better on a controller. Oh and the crafting system is a joke. I also like how you have to wait 15-30 seconds just to see what materials are needed for each recipe before you decide to buy.
> 
> BTW check me out beating up some chicks. Woman beater:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/1005218-official-witcher-2-information-discussion-thread-88.html#post13622770


As a long time PC + console gamer I don't see it being made console friendly at all. Felt like a PC game tried and true to me. You just have strange opinions. I grew up with Quest for Glories and Kings Quests, and this game reminds me much more of those than ME.... anyway the game was amazingggg. I can't imagine playing it on a controller, and some games I prefer on controller ( like Uncharteds ).

As far as TvP goes, good... cause I feel any map past 15 minutes is Protoss favored in all match ups. I'll take any map advantage I can get.


----------



## yks

If you're the type that likes to read interviews,

Artosis Interview with MLG: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-is-going-mass-casters-the-artosis-interview


----------



## DoomDash

Man Artosis is so full of poop.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13626232*
> Man Artosis is so full of poop.


Dont see how you can say that, everything he talks about makes sense, he doesn't make any wild and outlandish statements and he has good justification for every point he makes.

Just because you beat him on the ladder


----------



## CravinR1

wow got beat by an all in Thor push ......

I was toss, had a couple sentries/zealots/stalkers (immortal popped up in time to get killed alone) and he had about 10 marines and 10 scvs repairing his thor


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


wow got beat by an all in Thor push ......

I was toss, had a couple sentries/zealots/stalkers (immortal popped up in time to get killed alone) and he had about 10 marines and 10 scvs repairing his thor


Fast Thor push is hard to beat if you don't what to do.

Make sure to scout well every game, that alone will net you a win against a Thor push. Stalkers can pick off scvs/marines (they move faster) all the way from his base to yours.

If he walks his Thor into your base FIRST, you can FF behind it and block some marines. FF can also be used to push scvs off the Thor but it takes perfect placement. Since he's bringing scvs, use probes to help you as well.

Generally you want to pick off all the marines first, then take out the Thor, but it's all situational.


----------



## DoomDash

Thor pushes suck now.


----------



## Allenssmart

http://www.nasl.tv/Statistics

ZvT: 55%
TvZ: 45%

In other words

Big maps, no chokes, terrible reinforcement speeds, immobile armies, reliance on t1, terrible t3, infestors, colossi. Think what you want to think. This is not qq, it is me presenting you a series of facts.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


http://www.nasl.tv/Statistics

ZvT: 55%
TvZ: 45%

In other words

Big maps, no chokes, terrible reinforcement speeds, immobile armies, reliance on t1, terrible t3, infestors, colossi. Think what you want to think. This is not qq, it is me presenting you a series of facts.


Things are different in the Korean scene most likely though. I think part of it is because Terran is the most obviously rewarding race so it just means skilled players pick Terran.. but that's just my opinion on the matter ( like BW ). In BW Terran was almost always the most dominate, but not because they were considered better. NASL is not really big enough to judge anything on by itself though, plus its not over.


----------



## melterx12

mass marines every game, select all, /dance


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13622448*
> Not SCII related, but I'd like my fellow SCII players to know Witcher 2 is a must buy!


I agree. It's pretty good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13625357*
> I can't believe ppl still fudging dt rush... Go back to bronze.


What's wrong with DT rush?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13626232*
> Man Artosis is so full of poop.


He's definitely not as good of a player as he probably believes himself to be, but the interview is ok. And he's still a good caster.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not SCII related, but I'd like my fellow SCII players to know Witcher 2 is a must buy!


I loved the Witcher, hopefully 2 is more of the same









Quote:



Originally Posted by *melterx12*


mass marines every game, select all, /dance


hehe, I prefer /cheer


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I agree. It's pretty good.

What's wrong with DT rush?

He's definitely not as good of a player as he probably believes himself to be, but the interview is ok. And he's still a good caster.


DT' rushes are really strong vs Terran, even for the map control.

Yes, he is a good caster.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allenssmart*


http://www.nasl.tv/Statistics

ZvT: 55%
TvZ: 45%

In other words

Big maps, no chokes, terrible reinforcement speeds, immobile armies, reliance on t1, terrible t3, infestors, colossi. Think what you want to think. This is not qq, it is me presenting you a series of facts.


Statistics are interesting but taking such a small sample size is not very useful. there are allot of serious statistical outliers there, lots of people with 0% win rate vs certain races just through being seriously outclassed not by racial imbalance but by simply being out played. GSL may finals for example $ "free" ZvP wins, Nestea did not win because he was zerg he won because Inca played poorly any one at the top of their race would have won those games. You need to take statistics over a much bigger pool of games to come up with anything meaningful.

Given that is the case the balance being so close to 50% is remarkable









If you are referring to artosis statement that he feels that right now terran are the easiest race to play at high level, That doesn't necessarily mean he thinks they are more powerful simply that they are easier to play.

In the last GSL code S and A combined there were 27 t 25 p and 15z does that mean all the best players choose T & p or does it imply that Z is harder to play and thus only the exceptional make it? No one knows for sure. What i really want to see is a truly Gosu random player winning tourneys


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Statistics are interesting but taking such a small sample size is not very useful. there are allot of serious statistical outliers there, lots of people with 0% win rate vs certain races just through being seriously outclassed not by racial imbalance but by simply being out played. GSL may finals for example $ "free" ZvP wins, Nestea did not win because he was zerg he won because Inca played poorly any one at the top of their race would have won those games. You need to take statistics over a much bigger pool of games to come up with anything meaningful.

Given that is the case the balance being so close to 50% is remarkable









If you are referring to artosis statement that he feels that right now terran are the easiest race to play at high level, That doesn't necessarily mean he thinks they are more powerful simply that they are easier to play. Also he's said things like he doesn't like Terran because the Marauder is too effective / easy to use... then he picks Protoss ( colossus ), give me a break. This is why I say Artosis is full of ****.

In the last GSL code S and A combined there were 27 t 25 p and 15z does that mean all the best players choose T & p or does it imply that Z is harder to play and thus only the exceptional make it? No one knows for sure. What i really want to see is a truly Gosu random player winning tourneys










Also I would take anything Artosis says with a grain of salt, considering he is pretty much know for being the most biased person in the SC community since BW, along with idra. Though even idra says Zerg and Terran are equally as hard at high level.

Artosis and Idra both picked Zerg in beta because they thought they were the best race... so if Artosis believed Terran was the best race or easiest you bet your ass he'd pick them.

He's even said things like he doesn't like Terran because the Marauder is too good / easy to use, but then he picks Protoss, who has the easiest best unit / easy to use unit in the game ( colossus ). He is so full of ****.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


He's definitely not as good of a player as he probably believes himself to be, but the interview is ok. And he's still a good caster.


I don't know He thinks he's pretty bad right now, he's down on himself in every interview on his stream etc, the guys been at the top he knows what it feels like to be really good and he knows that at the moment he isn't.

as for him being full of poop, I think it was incontrol who said it on State of the game but it might have been someone else, In order for you to know enough about the game to make accurate statements about balance you need to be a professional player, if you are a professional player you will personally be too emotionally invested in a certain race to make your observations objective. Thus anything any player says regarding balance is mostly poop









I can relate to that, when I first started out I went P (later went R as I felt I would learn more of what each race can do plus I get bored easy ^^) And I honestly KNEW I Really KNEW terran were the most OP race they could just crush me every time with 0 skill, then I looked at my stats I had around a 70% winrate vs terran it was by a big margin my best matchup. bearing mind this was bronze league so my high win rate was down to them being bads not anything racial


----------



## DoomDash

Oh I agree everyone is biased if they pick one race. But what about jediwin? He thinks Protoss is easy as hell and he plays random @ high master level







.


----------



## Mwarren

I agree that toss is the easiest race (even at the highest levels). I feel as though right now terran is the weakest race but imo the most fun to play because you have to be constantly harassing/poking/and just doing something in general.

I seriously think that collosus should be removed from the game, that way the toss would have to be more reliant on their ability to use warp prisms for drop harass or just in general harass.
Collosus destroys that aspect because the whole idea about going collosus is macroing up a huge deathball so that you can destroy everything in your path.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I agree that toss is the easiest race (even at the highest levels). I feel as though right now terran is the weakest race but imo the most fun to play because you have to be constantly harassing/poking/and just doing something in general.

I seriously think that collosus should be removed from the game, that way the toss would have to be more reliant on their ability to use warp prisms for drop harass or just in general harass.
Collosus destroys that aspect because the whole idea about going collosus is macroing up a huge deathball so that you can destroy everything in your path.


Yeah I think Colossus being in the game is the most disappointing thing about SCII. They should remove it and put the Reaver back in.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Yeah! Let's just follow what StarCraft I offered because, you know, it's not like StarCraft II is a totally new game or anything!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Yeah! Let's just follow what StarCraft I offered because, you know, it's not like StarCraft II is a totally new game or anything!


It's not even about that. SCII would still be a totally different game than SC1 if the Reaver was there instead of the Colossus. Pretty sure most people can admit the Colossus was just a poorly designed unit in general, having nothing to do with which SC you are playing.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I just got my Medivac portrait


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Oh I agree everyone is biased if they pick one race. But what about jediwin? He thinks Protoss is easy as hell and he plays random @ high master level







.


doesnt mean he is any less emotionally invested, he wins lots as toss or looses lots vs toss and in his mind they are "easier" I dunno I kind of feel that way at my level about T I win allot more games as terran and loose allot more games i feel i should win vs T.

Does that mean they are easier? im pretty certain not but doesnt change how i "feel"


----------



## DoomDash

Well there is a reason Terran is the most played @ Bronze level but fades as you go up the divisions until top 100 grand masters.


----------



## DoomDash

Bye Bye Mass Immortals:


----------



## poroboszcz

I personally find Zerg the easiest to play as I often beat master players even though I play zerg casually and my mechanics is pretty bad (nearly 0 creep spread, missing injects etc.). This doesn't happen with protoss, which means that when I screw up I lose. Terran is definitely the most difficult for me, but that's because I have played very few games as them and lack experience which doesn't mean it's more or less difficult. That's just a personal feeling though.

I don't see how some can say that one race is objectively the easiest and the other one is the hardest. Is chronoboost easier than calling mules? Are DTs easier to use than banshees? Is blink micro easier than marine splitting? Is marine/SCV harder to pull off than 4 gate or roach all-in? Is psy storm easier to cast than EMP or fungal? I don't really see the point.

I have a friend who is 1k+ master random player and ex AoE pro and he switches his main race every time the metagame changes and blames the game balance for his loses. He recently switched from zerg to protoss because he believed zerg can't win any games at higher level. Now he's switching back because he claims that PvZ is impossible to win for protoss.

I offer every zerg that cries imba ez mode (if they don't immediately block me lol) a rematch where I play Z and they go P and in most cases I'm able to prove my point.

Edit: @Doom: Dude, you should definitely invest in some heater lol.


----------



## Mwarren

You don't get it, terran and zerg have to harass the toss player or else its extremely difficult to come out ahead in the main battles. Every high level tvp or tvz I watch the terran has to harass or else they pretty much lose. The only terran player that I can think of that plays a purely macro style with almost no harass is thorzain and I doubt that his play style will last as its very risky and he has to pull magic tricks just to win most of his games.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm not turning the heat on, it's not cold enough to turn it on, but cold enough that my hands are cold







. 46 degrees out.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ROFL.

Okay.. in pvt, if you're a terran player, if you both have the same harvester count, you will come out ahead in macro... Because of the early to mid game in pvt, you can get your engie bay and upgrades faster. And mm rapes the toss ball if 1:1 before colossus. It's like the only reason why toss can win game is the col.

Get rid of the colossus you guys say. They're op! I say lol. No they're not. EMP, Tanks, PF, mass marines.

lol

lol

L O L

Give us immortals with splash damage, give us prisms that heal, or give our t1 units that actually evens with terran t1 units without upgrades. Rofl, complain about colossus. too funny.


----------



## rhed5

terran imba


----------



## rhed5

protoss imba - watch this space, it will be relevant in 1 month.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm not turning the heat on, it's not cold enough to turn it on, but cold enough that my hands are cold







. 46 degrees out.


99 at my house right now. :'(

Also, I don't agree with your feelings about the colossi. I think it's a bit too strong maybe, but still easy to counter. I like all of the "new" units in SCII compared to SCI. I don't think removing it would be the right way, maybe in the exp just add a good terran macro unit.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


ROFL.

Okay.. in pvt, if you're a terran player, if you both have the same harvester count, you will come out ahead in macro... Because of the early to mid game in pvt, you can get your engie bay and upgrades faster. And mm rapes the toss ball if 1:1 before colossus. It's like the only reason why toss can win game is the col.

Get rid of the colossus you guys say. They're op! I say lol. No they're not. EMP, Tanks, PF, mass marines.

lol

lol

L O L

Give us immortals with splash damage, give us prisms that heal, or give our t1 units that actually evens with terran t1 units without upgrades. Rofl, complain about colossus. too funny.


You're crazy, late game protoss units are so beefy with their shields plus regular hp that its hard to straight up kill a toss late game. Especially since late game toss has so much splash damage (HT's/Collosus/Archons). The burden is on the terran player to disable the spellcasters, keep the toss unit count low, and harass.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


ROFL.

Okay.. in pvt, if you're a terran player, if you both have the same harvester count, you will come out ahead in macro... Because of the early to mid game in pvt, you can get your engie bay and upgrades faster. And mm rapes the toss ball if 1:1 before colossus. It's like the only reason why toss can win game is the col.

Get rid of the colossus you guys say. They're op! I say lol. No they're not. EMP, Tanks, PF, mass marines.

lol

lol

L O L

Give us immortals with splash damage, give us prisms that heal, or give our t1 units that actually evens with terran t1 units without upgrades. Rofl, complain about colossus. too funny.


You know your post won't necessarily get more convincing if you put a lot of LOLs in it. The point is valid though. Colossus and/or HT is needed to deal with MM ball with medivacs. Gateway units vs rax units are ok, it's once the medivacs came into play when protoss needs some AoE damage to deal with the bio ball. Also I'm pretty sure that in 200/200 battle bio army with 6-8 medivacs and maybe some vikings vs protoss ball is pretty much even and EMPs can make it hugely Terran favored.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You know your post won't necessarily get more convincing if you put a lot of LOLs in it. The point is valid though. Colossus and/or HT is needed to deal with MM ball with medivacs. Gateway units vs rax units are ok, it's once the medivacs came into play when protoss needs some AoE damage to deal with the bio ball. Also I'm pretty sure that in 200/200 battle bio army with 6-8 medivacs and maybe some vikings vs protoss ball is pretty much even and storm can make it hugely Toss favored.


See what I did there?


----------



## xArchAngelZerox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You know your post won't necessarily get more convincing if you put a lot of LOLs in it. The point is valid though. Colossus and/or HT is needed to deal with MM ball with medivacs. Gateway units vs rax units are ok, it's once the medivacs came into play when protoss needs some AoE damage to deal with the bio ball. Also I'm pretty sure that in 200/200 battle bio army with 6-8 medivacs and maybe some vikings vs protoss ball is pretty much even and EMPs can make it hugely Terran favored.



In the early game, sentries make a huge difference against the terran army. I've slaughtered a lot of early game marine/marauder mixes with just zealots and sentries with a +1 armor upgrade. Under the guardian shield with +1 armor, zealots only take 2 damage from marines. That's a lot of bullets to kill a zealot.

Once ghosts come out, it's a lot trickier. You have to be careful and choose your engagements wisely. EMPs *can* make the terran favored, if the toss player doesn't have any HTs. Think EMP is ridiculous? See how the terran player feels when you feedback his ghosts while you're storming his entire bio ball.

And as far as colossi go, if the terran makes too many vikings to deal with your colossus, that means less units on the ground to deal with


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Late game?

Guess what toss cant do? Sac half your scv count and rely on two to four extra orbitals to fully another three bases, giving terran the upper hand in a 200/200 battle. And in those late games it's usually emp vs ht battle with one or two colossus since its countered so hard by vikings. Toss can't even attack into pf until terran units have been taken down by half.

HT/Archons too mush splash, too op you say. LOL no they're not, emp, and cloaked ghosts.

LOL

LOL

L

o

L.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13633590*
> See what I did there?


Which proves my point.








I could argue that EMP can't be dodged, disables casters, can pottentialy deal way more damage, has higher range and ghosts can cloak, but the point is that the outcome will mostly depend on the skill of the players.


----------



## xArchAngelZerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13633659*
> Late game?
> 
> Guess what toss cant do? Sac half your scv count and rely on two to four extra orbitals to fully another three bases, giving terran the upper hand in a 200/200 battle. And in those late games it's usually emp vs ht battle with one or two colossus since its countered so hard by vikings. Toss can't even attack into pf until terran units have been taken down by half.
> 
> HT/Archons too mush splash, too op you say. LOL no they're not, emp, and cloaked ghosts.
> 
> LOL
> 
> LOL
> 
> L
> 
> o
> 
> L.


I'm not saying the terran aren't hard to deal with, I'm saying it's not impossible, and it's not ridiculously imbalanced. If you hate dealing with terran late game, then just win with a 4 gate. lol


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13633676*
> Which proves my point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could argue that EMP can't be dodged, disables casters, can pottentialy deal way more damage, has higher range and ghosts can cloak, but the point is that the outcome will mostly depend on the skill of the players.


That I can agree with, BUT the terran has the burden of emping the templars or the toss army in general before the HT's can storm. It's a pita for the terran because ghosts are fragile units and once they're gone the terran is screwed if the toss has templars out. I found out that if I'm not ahead of the toss by at least 1 base late game tvp than the chance of me winning is slim as the toss can send wave after wave of HT/Chargelots.


----------



## DoomDash

I think you guys failed to see my beef with the Colossus. I don't think it's OP exactly, I think it's stupidly good for the amount of work required to make it effective. If they replaced it with a unit that if you microed it or dropped it to make it very efficient, yet still complimented your army, that is what I want. AKA the Reaver ( Protoss was my best in BW, and I played random, the reason I don't play them in SCII is the Reaver gone and Colossus in, too scrubby ).

The Colossus are just too easy to use for how rewarding they are. Can they be countered? Of course, but I also think its some what advantageous to force units that don't really compliment your army well outside one intended target ( Vikings / Corrupters).

As far as upgrades, Protoss can start upgrades at the same time, and double forge allows them to beat Terran to upgrade levels even if Terran starts first. I've been there. Does bio own gateway armies ? Kinda, but that all comes down to FF and positioning. I'm not asking for the Colossus to be removed from the game and Protoss to not be compensated for.. see what I just mentioned.

Any way you spin it, if you think T > P late game I think you are crazy. Even all the master P's on SCC I know can admit to it being Protoss favored late. Look at any high level GSL match that ends up late game and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. A good example is the recent sets with MVP vs that random Protoss player in the GSL super match this week in their final game. MVP had to be up 4-5 bases with multipronged attacks, mass orbitals, defensive PF's, just to finally beat that guy after 50 minutes.

I think a lot of the advantage Terran has early kind of balances the match up as a whole. These bigger maps take away that advantage and make Protoss late game seem really favored atm.

Of course strategies change, but its obvious that currently this is how it is. Terran may just need to adapt.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13633794*
> I think you guys failed to see my beef with the Colossus. I don't think it's OP exactly, I think it's stupidly good for the amount of work required to make it effective. If they replaced it with a unit that if you microed it or dropped it to make it very efficient, yet still complimented your army, that is what I want. AKA the Reaver ( Protoss was my best in BW, and I played random, the reason I don't play them in SCII is the Reaver gone and Colossus in, too scrubby ).
> 
> The Colossus are just too easy to use for how rewarding they are. Can they be countered? Of course, but I also think its some what advantageous to force units that don't really compliment your army well outside one intended target ( Vikings / Corrupters).
> 
> As far as upgrades, Protoss can start upgrades at the same time, and double forge allows them to beat Terran to upgrade levels even if Terran starts first. I've been there. Does bio own gateway armies ? Kinda, but that all comes down to FF and positioning. I'm not asking for the Colossus to be removed from the game and Protoss to not be compensated for.. see what I just mentioned.
> 
> Any way you spin it, if you think T > P late game I think you are crazy. Even all the master P's on SCC I know can admit to it being Protoss favored late. Look at any high level GSL match that ends up late game and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. A good example is the recent sets with MVP vs that random Protoss player in the GSL super match this week in their final game. MVP had to be up 4-5 bases with multipronged attacks, mass orbitals, defensive PF's, just to finally beat that guy after 50 minutes.
> 
> I think a lot of the advantage Terran has early kind of balances the match up as a whole. These bigger maps take away that advantage and make Protoss late game seem really favored atm.
> 
> Of course strategies change, but its obvious that currently this is how it is. Terran may just need to adapt.


I completely agree, Toss has a pretty big advantage when it comes to the collosus as they can even hide some of their collsous or go double robo and if the other player doesn't react with enough air units (which are only used to get rid of the collosus) than the toss is going to be ahead. So the burden is on the non toss player to make the right amount of air units to deal with the collosus. No other unit in the game is as game impacting as the collosus as the other units have multiple ways to be dealt with while with the collosus theres only 1 way to deal with them right now.

Gateway units can definitely deal with bio units, good forcefields like you said, good positioning, and blink/charge can make it micro dependent on who comes out ahead in battles.

Right now I think that ghosts need a spell thats useful tvz besides snipe. Emp should drain some of the zergs hp just like how it gets rid of toss's shields. It's kind of silly that ghosts are only capable of doing splash damage in tvp and not tvz while infestors have fungal which is their splash damage spell.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't care about any changes honestly I just think that the Colossus is a poorly designed unit







. I don't Blizzard will fix it either. Sad thing is they almost had the Reaver in according to Dustin Browder. In place of the Colossus and I'd be a Protoss player once again ( well maybe not anymore, that ship has sailed... but I would have been random for sure since day one ). Even as a spectator or e-sports fan watching Reaver play is a million times more entertaining.


----------



## rhed5

OK enough trolling, my input in all this - I'm not going to add anything on whether they are OP or not, as at our level of play, I don't feel I should cry imbalance every time I lose when there are clearly things I could've done better.

My only beef with colossus is that, they are so straightforward. There is never a failure of attack, once they shoot the laser, the damage is done. It's terribly effective, yet boring.
They have replaced the reaver from brood war; which were one of the most exciting units in the game; What made reavers exciting was that when they would attack, sometimes scarabs would explode, sometimes they woudln't. So you could get lucky and kill 8 scv's with 1 shot, while if you were unlucky, you would get no kills in 2-3 clean shots. This creates excitement, this creates uncertainty. Lurkers for tvz as well; who remembers how lurkers would shoot their last spine as they were dying and 1 shot marines, althoguh generally they would only do 20. Same for spider mines, when a dropped or running zealot would explode 4-5 tanks in a contain! Which is what made TvP in brood war so damn exciting. Starcraft 2 needs more units where not everything is so straightforward. I don't see this in sc2 except in tvz. For that reason, TvZ is the only matchup I get super super excitied and nervous about because banelings fill that void.


----------



## rhed5

God damn you doom, you beat me to it. But back to topic.

PROTOSS OP!!!!!! TERRAN OP!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13634118*
> OK enough trolling, my input in all this - I'm not going to add anything on whether they are OP or not, as at our level of play, I don't feel I should cry imbalance every time I lose when there are clearly things I could've done better.
> 
> My only beef with colossus is that, they are so straightforward. There is never a failure of attack, once they shoot the laser, the damage is done. It's terribly effective, yet boring.
> They have replaced the reaver from brood war; which were one of the most exciting units in the game; What made reavers exciting was that when they would attack, sometimes scarabs would explode, sometimes they woudln't. So you could get lucky and kill 8 scv's with 1 shot, while if you were unlucky, you would get no kills in 2-3 clean shots. This creates excitement, this creates uncertainty. Lurkers for tvz as well; who remembers how lurkers would shoot their last spine as they were dying and 1 shot marines, althoguh generally they would only do 20. Same for spider mines, when a dropped or running zealot would explode 4-5 tanks in a contain! Which is what made TvP in brood war so damn exciting. Starcraft 2 needs more units where not everything is so straightforward. I don't see this in sc2 except in tvz. For that reason, TvZ is the only matchup I get super super excitied and nervous about because banelings fill that void.


Yes, this is my thoughts exactly. I agree on TvZ too.


----------



## ntherblast

What button/hotkey do I press to get the camera to jump to a unit/building I current have selected?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I have that button bound to `. Check hotkeys.

We really can't talk about the GSL or high level play in terms of balance. People like IMMVP can be knocked down by toss, or they can beat toss. In those kinds of competition it's usually one player out playing and out classing, instead of showing imbalances of each unit, mechanic, or path.

Regarding upgrades: Terran can usually have the safeness to be able to start upgrades faster than toss. Terran going on two rax can fe faster than three gate nexus. On maps with small chokes sentries allow three gate army to push out and secure Terran natural and try to delay terran expo (and therefore upgrades) before toss has their natural up. Other than that terran can usually get their upgrades before toss does.

Even if toss double forge, one scan will tell the terran to get double engie. Chrono allows toss to catch up on upgrades late game. However a toss on two base cannot support constant upgrades on two forge with constant unit production out of five gate and robo.

Another example would be naniwa vs thorzane when thor went tank marine marauder. Thor was able to get an expo and upgrades before naniwa in the first game, while naniwa canceled both forge upgrades just to get out more units so he didn't die right away in the subsequent games later.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xArchAngelZerox;13633690*
> I'm not saying the terran aren't hard to deal with, I'm saying it's not impossible, and it's not ridiculously imbalanced. If you hate dealing with terran late game, then just win with a 4 gate. lol


LOL I never said PvT is imba. It's my favourite match up.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13634345*
> I have that button bound to `. Check hotkeys.
> 
> We really can't talk about the GSL or high level play in terms of balance. People like IMMVP can be knocked down by toss, or they can beat toss. In those kinds of competition it's usually one player out playing and out classing, instead of showing imbalances of each unit, mechanic, or path.
> 
> Regarding upgrades: Terran can usually have the safeness to be able to start upgrades faster than toss. Terran going on two rax can fe faster than three gate nexus. On maps with small chokes sentries allow three gate army to push out and secure Terran natural and try to delay terran expo (and therefore upgrades) before toss has their natural up. Other than that terran can usually get their upgrades before toss does.
> 
> Even if toss double forge, one scan will tell the terran to get double engie. Chrono allows toss to catch up on upgrades late game. However a toss on two base cannot support constant upgrades on two forge with constant unit production out of five gate and robo.
> 
> Another example would be naniwa vs thorzane when thor went tank marine marauder. Thor was able to get an expo and upgrades before naniwa in the first game, while naniwa canceled both forge upgrades just to get out more units so he didn't die right away in the subsequent games later.
> 
> LOL I never said PvT is imba. It's my favourite match up.


No matter what I think Protoss should be upgrades at the same rate as Terran period. Terran should not be beating Protoss to upgrades IMO. As far as expanding goes, I think they can safely expand at the same rate too. I don't think it's anymore or less risky as either race, though I do think having in base 2nd base benifits Protoss more than Terran ( like Delta, or Jungle Basin, ect ).

I hate maps where I can't possibly punish a Protoss expansion because they are protected by the same ramp







.

I'm actually kind of surprised you think Terran has an advantage in the upgrade game ( even early ). You don't even need double forge, you can just do armor if need be and its still super effective vs bio at least. Even yks tells me how good fast armor is against Terran.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13634345*
> I have that button bound to `. Check hotkeys.


it's called center on current selection right?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's called follow current selection.

Doom, I don't understand; You didn't give a counter argument. If you're talking about maps like Delta, let's look at the facts:

- Terran can two rax fe into outside natural but Toss cannot three gate fe into outside natural without dying.

- Toss can three gate or two gate robo into inside natural but slower than Terran gets out his natural

Both scenarios means Terran has a better army, start upgrades faster than the toss on two bases assuming both players have the same macro skill. IE constant probe/scv production, mules/chronos, constant unit production. But as I said chrono on forge does even it out in the late game, which as soon as medivacs gets into the game, however small advantage chrono upgrade(s) gave Toss in the midgame is gone.

If Toss goes down the ramp, even with same macro skill and unit count on delta, the Toss will die as the area is so open FF's are useless with MM micro.


----------



## DoomDash

I see 1 gate expands pretty commonly on the ladder, and they are still even some what hard to stop. I have to really dedicate myself with a double marauder bunker rush to even properly punish it.

I certainly don't think you need to three gate robo lol. Maybe 2 gate Robo if you want to play it safe... but I don't play Protoss IDK. All I'm saying is against me they always have equal upgrades and armies, sometimes even better... with constant production on both sides.

I don't don't believe your argument is valid where I am at anyway.


----------



## Mwarren

Ahhh what? 3 gate fe can actually apply pressure to a standard 2 rax fe and you're trying to tell us that the toss will die from 2 rax pressure if he tries to expand at his natural? What league are you in?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13634285*
> What button/hotkey do I press to get the camera to jump to a unit/building I current have selected?


Just double tap the hotkey if that's what you mean.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13634730*
> I see 1 gate expands pretty commonly on the ladder, and they are still even some what hard to stop. I have to really dedicate myself with a double marauder bunker rush to even properly punish it.
> 
> I certainly don't think you need to three gate robo lol. Maybe 2 gate Robo if you want to play it safe... but I don't play Protoss IDK. All I'm saying is against me they always have equal upgrades and armies, sometimes even better... with constant production on both sides.
> 
> I don't don't believe your argument is valid where I am at anyway.


I think one gate expand could be punished fairly easily, especially with terran going all in on the ladder these days. I never said three gate robo, I said either three gate or two gate robo. And I'm only talking about delta, where the outer natural is so hard to defend. If you're talking about inside natural, sure Toss can expand there and guard the gate with sentries. However that still means Terran will be able to macro more, set out a contain and take his third faster than the Toss. With same macro even gateway colossus build cannot break the contain.

You can invalidate my comments, but you have to have some evidence, and reason and examples as backup. When you break down the timings, the resources it's how it pans out if both players are doing the same things respectively (refer to my previous post about macro example).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13634751*
> Ahhh what? 3 gate fe can actually apply pressure to a standard 2 rax fe and you're trying to tell us that the toss will die from 2 rax pressure if he tries to expand at his natural? What league are you in?


We're talking about open naturals like Delta, instead of small chokes like xel naga. If you three gate fe vs standard 2 rax fe on open maps you will die. As for league, I'm only in diamond and I can't beat Jedwin or Doom straight up. I'm merely talking about the meta game objectively if both players have to same rate of production with similar builds/timings (three gate fe vs two gate fe). Toss need FF to survive in three gate vs two rax, and open naturals render FFs useless when Terran always kite and come back ten seconds later.


----------



## Mwarren

Even if the natural is open ff's are still very viable......

Doom you have to check out this TvZ replay. It was my warmup game so I didn't play it as well as I could have but I ended up winning the game with literally only 10 marines and 2 tanks, I had to pull all of my scvs because he took out the turrets at my gold. This is the closest game I've ever played. It's filled with lots of base trading.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13635086*
> I think one gate expand could be punished fairly easily, especially with terran going all in on the ladder these days. I never said three gate robo, I said either three gate or two gate robo. And I'm only talking about delta, where the outer natural is so hard to defend. If you're talking about inside natural, sure Toss can expand there and guard the gate with sentries. However that still means Terran will be able to macro more, set out a contain and take his third faster than the Toss. With same macro even gateway colossus build cannot break the contain.
> 
> You can invalidate my comments, but you have to have some evidence, and reason and examples as backup. When you break down the timings, the resources it's how it pans out if both players are doing the same things respectively (refer to my previous post about macro example).
> 
> We're talking about open naturals like Delta, instead of small chokes like xel naga. If you three gate fe vs standard 2 rax fe on open maps you will die. As for league, I'm only in diamond and I can't beat Jedwin or Doom straight up. I'm merely talking about the meta game objectively if both players have to same rate of production with similar builds/timings (three gate fe vs two gate fe). Toss need FF to survive in three gate vs two rax, and open naturals render FFs useless when Terran always kite and come back ten seconds later.


Why would I try to prove this to you in detail? I don't care and I think you're wrong. I'm just telling you from my experience you are way off and nothing more. I've been on equal base for the same amount of time, vs double forge, scv/probe count similar, and been 10-20 supply behind all game vs Protoss. I have a replay if you want.

The whole delta thing was more or less an off topic rant.

I'll watch tonight sovern.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well, lol, this is the strat discussion thread. I don't mind people sharing their opinions nor do I mind everyone disagreeing. I just like to see some backup. I merely said Terrans can start their upgrades quicker than tos most of the time. If you don't agree so be it. Besides, this whole Protoss vs Terran thing wasn't started by me. Like I said it's my favourite match.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13635508*
> Even if the natural is open ff's are still very viable......
> 
> Doom you have to check out this TvZ replay. It was my warmup game so I didn't play it as well as I could have but I ended up winning the game with literally only 10 marines and 2 tanks, I had to pull all of my scvs because he took out the turrets at my gold. This is the closest game I've ever played. It's filled with lots of base trading.


Not when Terran can kite with con and stim. By that time Terran already is on three rax one engie while Tos cannot afford to produce out four gates and nexus, nor enough money for forge upgrades. So on open natural maps with wide chokes you need many many sentries to defend but can't produce enough vs a terran timing attack.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13636365*
> Well, lol, this is the strat discussion thread. I don't mind people sharing their opinions nor do I mind everyone disagreeing. I just like to see some backup. I merely said Terrans can start their upgrades quicker than tos most of the time. If you don't agree so be it. Besides, this whole Protoss vs Terran thing wasn't started by me. Like I said it's my favourite match.
> 
> Not when Terran can kite with con and stim. By that time Terran already is on three rax one engie while Tos cannot afford to produce out four gates and nexus, nor enough money for forge upgrades. So on open natural maps with wide chokes you need many many sentries to defend but can't produce enough vs a terran timing attack.


I have a feeling your doing something wrong. Post up more replays. You can get forges same times as ebays







, and yes you can afford it.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13636393*
> I have a feeling your doing something wrong. Post up more replays. You can get forges same times as ebays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and yes you can afford it.


Definitely, and he keeps talking about kiting but that's the sole purpose of getting zealots, the mnms kite them while your stalkers take shots at them and your sentrys split the mnm army into smaller chunks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13636525*
> Definitely, and he keeps talking about kiting but that's the sole purpose of getting zealots, the mnms kite them while your stalkers take shots at them and your sentrys split the mnm army into smaller chunks.


Yeah I remember watching him play jediwin and he just had such a terrible zealot to stalker / sentry ratio. I wonder if he's improved it. Replays.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL I played you too, why you no tell me that when we played?

This is the last and only TvP I played today.



As for whether Toss can start forge then upgrades at the same time as Terran. I don't believe that's the case. As Toss you have to prep'd for all ins, either three or four rax. There's no magic scan button that allows you to know whether your Terran opponent is allin-ing or match your FE until your observers are out. Scouting the front only tells you so much. Therefore it's unsafe to produce a forge on three gates, one base (so early). Terran has the option of bunkering up, flying CC away, while the start their upgrades. So they feel more safe to put down an engie bay on one base while trying to FE, building a CC inside their base.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13636525*
> Definitely, and he keeps talking about kiting but that's the sole purpose of getting zealots, the mnms kite them while your stalkers take shots at them and your sentrys split the mnm army into smaller chunks.


Of course that's the case, however on open maps Terran can just back up and come back later. Loose a few units and kill half Toss' zealots. They can cut scv's and use mules to keep on producing. They can make another rax. Either force more units and no probes, force a cancel or destroy the FE. Oh look now their CC's done and engie bay's starting +1 weapons.

I'm merely saying in open areas like Delta which Doom brought up, the natural is hard to defend against a Terran that goes two rax fe with reactor/tech, then another rax. Sentries can only do so much before energy runs out. Whereas the Terran have both con shell and stim.

Edit, also I was saying earlier regarding afford to upgrades, I was saying regarding on two bases: Having three gate FE, Toss cannot afford to produce constantly out of five gates, robo, and nexus while having double upgrades on two forges. On one base it's a matter of can I get out enough units so I don't die, rather than not enough money to put down a forge to upgrade.


----------



## DoomDash

What maps are you referring to that are very open? Always take the rocks base first on Delta anyway.

I'll watch your replay, but I'm pretty sure jediwin and I both discussed you lack of Zealots when we played with you ( it was on metal ).

Again you don't need double forge, single forge fast +3 armor is still REALLY good vs bio esp when paired with GS.

Also all ins have lots of tells, and you can always gas steal Terran it does make all ins pretty much gone or at least not nearly as effective.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well, if you watch that replay you will see I've done all that. I must've forgot about you guys telling me about zealots. There could be tells about all ins but without observers or scans you don't really know, and may force you to over react to what you expect will come.

I was only talking about one point, that Terran is allowed to start their upgrades before Toss. You brought up Meta and Delta. Both naturals outside have a wide area of engagement that is favoured to a more mobile army like Terrans. As for Toss taking the inside natural on delta; Yes usually that's done, but it could mean falling behind if both players macros the same rate. This becomes more evident once Toss tries to take his third, while Terran can take any base he wants (because he simply has the more superior army at that time). While Toss, has to wait for splash units like HT and Col before pushing out to take his third on delta.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

going out for wings brb later


----------



## DoomDash

I think you are making a bigger deal out of the timings of everything. You can get your splash units out just fine on 2 bases, and once a Colossus is out your are probably VERY safe to take a 3rd. I used to 2 rax FE every game, and generally if I took my third bast too fast or much faster than the Protoss at all I would never have the money to deal with any 2 base timing from a Colossus Protoss ( can't possible afford starport tech and enough vikings to make you safe once AoE is out ). It's a two way street, and I just think you can't seem to see the other side of the street from the way you're talking about. You really underestimate your race IMO. It's so hard to afford vikings marauders medivacs and upgrades, just like its hard for Protoss to afford what they need.

There is a VERY VERY VERY thin line between living and dying once Colossus are out if you don't have enough vikings. I've lost games just because my viking timings were literally 30 seconds off. It's not safe to take a 3rd much faster if at all faster than Protoss. I would say generally it will be the same.


----------



## Sainesk

lol big have we ever played on typhon peaks? I was laddering today and was like forgot this is in the pool... >.>


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13631843*
> Oh I agree everyone is biased if they pick one race. But what about jediwin? He thinks Protoss is easy as hell and he plays random @ high master level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I'm only random high gold at the moment (My Terran is definitely higher than gold though) I'm still trying to fine tune my Zerg play. I lose a lot of ZvZs.

Anyways I think Protoss is pretty damn easy too. Only matchup I don't like for Protoss is *gasp* PvP. HAHA against another Protoss.

Seriously I'm not BSing you guys... one time I was playing a PvZ and I felt like I had down syndrome that game. I had crappy forcefields, no army, low APM, swarmed by lings, and towards the end of the game for some reason he let me get like 4-5 colossi and a ton of stalkers/zealots. My friggin mouse cord came out of the COMPUTER! (MY usb ports are horrible) Once my mouse gets disconnected I can't reconnect it unless I restart my computer so guess what I did...

I prayed and hoped that my opponent would GG before he realizes I can't got damn move. I tried to move with just my keyboard, but it wouldn't move/attack for me. Luckily my mouse got disconnected when I was right outside of his main. He kept sending in swarms of lings/roaches/corruptors into my colossi army and I just stood there with 0 APM and then he finally GGed because of the amount of colossi hahaha I won a game without a mouse. I told him GG back and then he left the game ROFL. He could of won that game if he knew my mouse was stuck.


----------



## DoomDash

Just watched your replay yellow... why do you get gas so early if you aren't going to use it. Can't say I'm surprised your army is smaller or you get later expansions when you waste probes on gas and assimilators. If you go gas heavy you should do a sentry expand, which will give you more minerals for an expansion. Even playing that opener poorly you still expanded faster than the Terran and started upgrading faster so can you give me replays of your examples instead? Also early on I noticed for awhile you missed quite a few warp gate timings with money to spare, and late game especially when you were floating so much minerals you did the same thing. That's one of the biggest keys to getting a ton of units out as Protoss in a respectable time.

Also, you had so much money and never took a 4th or 5th, what was with that? I even felt you could have ended it when you pushed with your 2 colossi if you just got some decent FF's off. He had no vikings at the time.


----------



## yks

the only person in the entire ~5 or so pages that made sense was Blinker/Poroboscsz.

Everything else was just bishing and unjustified and opinions.

Blinker why are you so smart?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13638355*
> the only person in the entire ~5 or so pages that made sense was Blinker/Poroboscsz.
> 
> Everything else was just bishing and unjustified and opinions.
> 
> Blinker why are you so smart?


So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being ******ed? Also, who's Binker?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13638402*
> So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being ******ed? Also, who's Binker?


or jediwin. yks seemed to miss that everything we said had nothing to do with balance. yks agrees with us on colossus so I don't know why he said that.

Also no one was bishing besides maybe yellow?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13638402*
> So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being ******ed? Also, who's Binker?


Porobo = Blinker.

For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.

So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.

In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13638523*
> Porobo = Blinker.
> 
> For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.
> 
> So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.
> 
> In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.


You must be a skimmer because we made it a point not to say it was imbalanced. Imbalance is nothing to do with what any of us were talking about! Read better next time







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm an imperfect player. The perfect case of one player being the same as the other in terms of production is purely hypothetical. When both are of the same pace/cycle, Terran has the leniency to start the upgrades first. Just because the Toss has the finances and ability to start a forge and upgrades the same time as Terran doesn't mean he actually will know that he could due to lack of information without obs. Whereas Terran can just click and see what Toss is up to, feel safe and decide when to start the engie bay.

Yes Toss can get col/splash units out on two base. I merely said you can't double upgrade and keep on making units out of all production facilities, two nexus, five gate, and robo. You'll be cutting units unless you want to stop probe production at 50 workers, for units, to do a timing push. In regards to the second or third base. That just depends on the contain each player has for the zones they control. I've killed players with two col timing pushes and I've lost because they went for faster vikings. However that has nothing to do with the numbers in which we were talking about.

I'm merely pointing out some trends in the early to meta game. I never brought up the PvT imbalances in the first place nor do I care. I feel I can also see your point of view as well. Like I said in the first post regarding this whole PvT discussion, that nothing is absolute and that quicker upgrades and faster/safer second or third for T isn't always the case. Also as I said everything evens out in a point in time. However I gave hypothetical situations where it is the case, with examples being two naniwai vs thor games.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13638523*
> Porobo = Blinker.
> 
> For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.
> 
> So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.
> 
> In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.


We never said that it was unbalanced just that it's a boring/stagnant unit that doesn't do anything but cause the opposing player to react by getting only 1 unit that's capable of countering it where as other units have multiple counters and make the game more interesting for the most part. Collosus is a 1a unit that deals a lot of splash damage that has only one real counter per matchup.

I disagree with your idea that only tip top tournament players can comment on balance. In other sports for examples even commentators can comment on and discuss many high level concepts. Who's to say that people in the top 1/2% of the whole game that play the game a ton and watch lots of pro games cant talk about balance?


----------



## DoomDash

See Yellow, everyone here was just discussing the match up. No talk of imbalance really, more or less different point of views or trying to understand the timings. As far as Colossus goes no one said they were imbalanced either, we just discussed why they were a poorly designed unit and would have been better off with a unit like the Reaver, but yks can't read







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13638451*
> or jediwin. yks seemed to miss that everything we said had nothing to do with balance. yks agrees with us on colossus so I don't know why he said that.
> 
> Also no one was bishing besides maybe yellow?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13638554*
> You must be a skimmer because we made it a point not to say it was imbalanced. Imbalance is nothing to do with what any of us were talking about! Read better next time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Oh I read everything thoroughly. I just found it all irrelevant.

I even read Jediwin's ONE and only non-troll post. The 1st half is basically what I said: "I'm not going to add anything on whether they are OP or not, as at our level of play, I don't feel I should cry imbalance every time I lose when there are clearly things I could've done better." -Jediwin

The 2nd half, I disagree with. You guys talk about the reaver and how it was/is more fun than the colossi. But if you think about a reaver, in sc2, it wouldn't work on a gameplay level.

For one reason: AI and Max group.

In BW you had 10 patches (i think - might be 9) vs 8 in the current.

So that's 30 vs 16 for full saturation based on AI. You see a reaver drop in BW you can only select a max of 12 units to move out the way then reboxing and PRAYING you dont reselect the previously selected workers because of AI.

In SC2 if you see a reaver drop, you can select your entire mineral line and move out the way because the AI moves WAY more efficiently.

So a BW reaver wouldn't work in SC2 simply cause the AI is so good.

Past is past. Get over BW units.

BW unit AI is garbage: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRhW06OzRE[/ame]

Reaver drops were so flashy cause running away from it was so ******* hard.


----------



## DoomDash

They would still be super effective even with the current AI IMO. There is no way you can prove other wise so there is no point in arguing about it. A shame you don't see how awesome it was. I keep preaching about the Reaver over Colossus and I will till the day I die. I know it could work great.

Also speaking of irrelevant you quoting that jediwin part and saying that's what you pretty much said is 100% irrelevant because that had nothing to do with our conversation. Again it had nothing to do with imbalance.


----------



## Mwarren

They have talked about adding reavers in the swarm or protoss expansion so we'll see.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13638633*
> See Yellow, everyone here was just discussing the match up. No talk of imbalance really, more or less different point of views or trying to understand the timings. As far as Colossus goes no one said they were imbalanced either, we just discussed why they were a poorly designed unit and would have been better off with a unit like the Reaver, but yks can't read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I only mentioned two points where on some maps it's hard to secure an outer natural with three gate expand, and that Terrans can usually feel more safe to start their upgrades before Toss. Nor did I disagree with less col and more drops. I said in many many posts ago, I'd be happy if warp prisms can heal and it became a staple for drops and support. Ever since I first started SC2, starting out in the lowbies I always made prism drops as an area of my game. I don't know why everyone's so updity. If I really felt it was imba why would I keep on playing you or jed. But I think after the 15th loss I'm allowed to rage a little and say OMG imba as a joke.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13638622*
> We never said that it was unbalanced just that it's a boring/stagnant unit that doesn't do anything but cause the opposing player to react by getting only 1 unit that's capable of countering it where as other units have multiple counters and make the game more interesting for the most part. Collosus is a 1a unit that deals a lot of splash damage that has only one real counter per matchup.
> 
> I disagree with your idea that only tip top tournament players can comment on balance. In other sports for examples even commentators can comment on and discuss many high level concepts. Who's to say that people in the top 1/2% of the whole game that play the game a ton and watch lots of pro games cant talk about balance?


Yeah, but commentators only talk in theory. Theory and practice is 2 completely different things. A commentator talks about the things they see with full knowledge of the current situation/metagame. While playing, you have limited knowledge. Which translates completely different when talking about balance. Which is why I leave it to the pros.

Because if we were to talk about watching lots of pros and trying to analyze what we see with our limited understanding. I'd stump probably everyone here in the amount I watch. But our understanding is very limited so it's almost irrelevant to the truth.

And in the end of the day, the truth is what matters.

I love discussion though, I can talk all day.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13638838*
> They would still be super effective even with the current AI IMO. There is no way you can prove other wise so there is no point in arguing about it. A shame you don't see how awesome it was. I keep preaching about the Reaver over Colossus and I will till the day I die. I know it could work great.
> 
> Also speaking of irrelevant you quoting that jediwin part and saying that's what you pretty much said is 100% irrelevant because that had nothing to do with our conversation. Again it had nothing to do with imbalance.


Unless a change is made to the current BW reaver, the current sc2 AI would render the drop useless. Maybe in a standup fight they'll be good, but I hardly think reaver drop would work with how the AI works.

And yes, it has to do with balance cause you guys are whining calling Protoss the easiest race in the game. If it was so easy why don't you play it?

If you wanna go on stats too, looking @ all of GSL (open/A/S/WC) you have to date:
4 Zerg victories
4 Terran victories
2 Protoss victories

4-4-2. If Protoss was so easy to play... why aren't they winning more?

Citation:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13632079*
> I agree that toss is the easiest race (even at the highest levels). I feel as though right now terran is the weakest race


and around that page area.

Which is why I said Poroboscsz is the only right one in the thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13633089*
> I personally find Zerg the easiest to play as I often beat master players even though I play zerg casually and my mechanics is pretty bad (nearly 0 creep spread, missing injects etc.). This doesn't happen with protoss, which means that when I screw up I lose. Terran is definitely the most difficult for me, but that's because I have played very few games as them and lack experience which doesn't mean it's more or less difficult. That's just a personal feeling though.
> 
> I don't see how some can say that one race is objectively the easiest and the other one is the hardest. Is chronoboost easier than calling mules? Are DTs easier to use than banshees? Is blink micro easier than marine splitting? Is marine/SCV harder to pull off than 4 gate or roach all-in? Is psy storm easier to cast than EMP or fungal? I don't really see the point.


It's all play style and preference


----------



## yks

It's all just e-peen stroking and trying to ego boost by saying, "ooh i play the hardest race in the game"

when it is not the case. because difficulty is all based on preference.


----------



## DoomDash

Again we mostly all admitted our bias, and of course it's just our feelings or theory on the matter.

and you know my theory why Protoss doesn't win as much.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13638854*
> They have talked about adding reavers in the swarm or protoss expansion so we'll see.


I'm not saying they won't add it, but I don't see it being the same reaver in BW.

So saying "give me reaver!" purely for the flashy-ness like in BW won't work.

They'll probably serve a different role.

Obviously with 2 more expansions there will be more units.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13639018*
> Again we mostly all admitted our bias, and of course it's just our feelings or theory on the matter.
> 
> and you know my theory why Protoss doesn't win as much.


Everyone's bias, but I think it's safe to say I'm the closest to neutral.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13639041*
> I'm not saying they won't add it, but I don't see it being the same reaver in BW.
> 
> So saying "give me reaver!" purely for the flashy-ness like in BW won't work.
> 
> They'll probably serve a different role.
> 
> Obviously with 2 more expansions there will be more units.


It could be better, units clump better in SCII







.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13639072*
> Everyone's bias, but I think it's safe to say I'm the closest to neutral.


I don't agree with you at all. More like you come up with some random thought and stick to it.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13639082*
> It could be better, units clump better in SCII
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I don't agree with you at all. More like you come up with some random thought and stick to it.


what random things have i said in this thread


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13639122*
> what random things have i said in this thread


You just have very opinionated thoughts on things, like Reavers not being effective for example. Like to me you are that guy who will hear someone say something and make a up a reason in your mind to disagree with him ( probably subconsciously ). If he said the opposite of what he said in the beginning you would disagree with that as well. Basically I think you're a full time devil's advocate on almost everything. That's just my thoughts on you from our conversations







. Not a dis or anything, but I have another friend just like this and you remind me of him, except my other friend is even better at it







.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13639160*
> You just have very opinionated thoughts on things, like Reavers not being effective for example. Like to me you are that guy who will hear someone say something and make a up a reason in your mind to disagree with him ( probably subconsciously ). If he said the opposite of what he said in the beginning you would disagree with that as well. Basically I think you're a full time devil's advocate on almost everything. That's just my thoughts on you from our conversations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Not a dis or anything, but I have another friend just like this and you remind me of him, except my other friend is even better at it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hell no. I agree with things I feel are justified. People just don't make sense sometimes.

Based on all our conversations, I almost never bring up balance first, it's pretty rare. If you notice I always try to find what someone can do better than blame X.

I'm more interested in getting into someone's mind and seeing how they come to that conclusion rather than outright going on the opposite.

And in this current thread's discussion, I agree'd with Blinker which just so happened to be on the opposite side of you. Hardly devil's advocate when I agree with someone.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13639009*
> It's all just e-peen stroking and trying to ego boost by saying, "ooh i play the hardest race in the game"


No one on here has got this right. I play the hardest race in the game, random! Imagine having 9 different MUs, 3 mirror matchups(PvsP is even worse than ZvsZ/TvsT) and having a win streak because of a bad MU







Not to mention all of the different BOs to know, different styles for each race, different mechanics(Z to T/P), timings, etc....









In terms of this whole colossi issue, personally, I would like to see the reaver make a comeback. Would make P drops as deadly as T(hellions) and Z(banes)


----------



## godofdeath

waiting for psy to stream hopefully something awesome happens


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You mean like how he proxy hatches to defend vs canon contain.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13639072*
> Everyone's bias, but I think it's safe to say *I'm the closest to neutral.*


hehe

Interesting interviews from RO64 winners: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226488


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


We never said that it was unbalanced just that it's a boring/stagnant unit that doesn't do anything but cause the opposing player to react by getting only 1 unit that's capable of countering it where as other units have multiple counters and make the game more interesting for the most part. Collosus is a 1a unit that deals a lot of splash damage that has only one real counter per matchup.

I disagree with your idea that only tip top tournament players can comment on balance. In other sports for examples even commentators can comment on and discuss many high level concepts. Who's to say that people in the top 1/2% of the whole game that play the game a ton and watch lots of pro games cant talk about balance?


I'm agreeing with everyone else. Even Rank 100 bronze players realize Colossi isn't a hard unit to micro.

I can literally get up from my chair go make a sandwich and come back to see groups of zerglings/marines roasted from the colossi's auto attack.

My mouse stopped working and I watched as my colossi just destroyed everything without any micro.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


No one on here has got this right. I play the hardest race in the game, random! Imagine having 9 different MUs, 3 mirror matchups(PvsP is even worse than ZvsZ/TvsT) and having a win streak because of a bad MU







Not to mention all of the different BOs to know, different styles for each race, different mechanics(Z to T/P), timings, etc....









In terms of this whole colossi issue, personally, I would like to see the reaver make a comeback. Would make P drops as deadly as T(hellions) and Z(banes)










Also I agree random is pretty annoying. PvP and ZvZ makes me want to punt a baby across a room. TvT I enjoy though


----------



## Silentness

double post


----------



## Sainesk

I struck gold...


















I did it for you big, now go get into platinum to motivate me to get higher









also, my protoss is really holding me back I reckon...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I'm agreeing with everyone else. Even Rank 100 bronze players realize Colossi isn't a hard unit to micro.

I can literally get up from my chair go make a sandwich and come back to see groups of zerglings/marines roasted from the colossi's auto attack.

My mouse stopped working and I watched as my colossi just destroyed everything without any micro.

Also I agree random is pretty annoying. PvP and ZvZ makes me want to punt a baby across a room. TvT I enjoy though










Yes, microing a colossi is pretty easy since u don't need to micro







As for mirror matchups, i think it's their randomness that can be annoying. A single mistake in any can be deadly, much more so than non-mirror matchups









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I struck gold...


















I did it for you big, now go get into platinum to motivate me to get higher









also, my protoss is really holding me back I reckon...


hehe, congrats on the promotion. As for plat, I kinda hit the ceiling atm because I haven't felt laddering as much recently and went on a tilt but I'll get there in the near future







As for P, if you want, we can practice that the next time we play a game


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


LOL I played you too, why you no tell me that when we played?

This is the last and only TvP I played today.





It would be better if you posted a replay of you losing or at least a game where terran does in fact gets faster expo and/or upgrades.

My question though is why you 3 gate expo? I think there may be some problem with how you execute your opening. If I'm denied early scouting and/or don't feel safe I usually 3 gate robo and I still get my expo faster than you do, and I have an observer in their base at 6:30 to react to whatever the terran is doing. Even if you 1 gate expo you still get an observer much faster than with this build.

Other thing I noted is your army positioning. It doesn't take much APM to have your whole army facing the choke with zealots in front and sentries/stalkers behind and it can really help during small early game engagements. Also you seem to overestimate terran's army strength. You had way stronger army than him during the first battle yet you overreacted with forcefields and pulling probes. I think if you had your army positioned correctly a guardian shield and 1-2 proper forcefields would make a short work of his units. I actually believe his push was a mistake and he probably should have waited for first 2 medivacs.


----------



## Lazorbeam

All of the Colossus talk is getting pretty annoying. Truth is, every race is close to balanced right now.

The problem is that the unit is a damn crutch. Could you imagine protoss without Colossus? The only way a protoss army can stand up to zerg/terran is by hiding behind giant walls of FF and picking off packs of units.

I've said it once and I'll say it before. There's a fundamental problem with Colossus/Forcefield synergy. This synergy is what makes protoss competitive. Protoss likes to turtle to mid-late game because winning early is very difficult when your army is outclassed food for food with no colossus/sentry present.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xArchAngelZerox*


I'm not saying the terran aren't hard to deal with, I'm saying it's not impossible, and it's not ridiculously imbalanced. If you hate dealing with terran late game, then just win with a 4 gate. lol


Newsflash: 4-gate is an absolutely terrible strategy vs terran AND zerg. It was bad pre-patch and is bad now. It works in bronze -> platinum because the build is relatively simple and allows for a large number of units early on.

You rarely see it in high level play because toss players would rather stick to effective strategies.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


That I can agree with, BUT the terran has the burden of emping the templars or the toss army in general before the HT's can storm.


Sorry but this is bias. When it comes down to a face-off between ghosts and HTs...

- Ghosts move faster, as such can easily position themselves to EMP or snipe.
- Ghosts can cloak, and thus are harder to feedback.
- A single EMP will invalidate multiple HTs (generally they are not max energy) and has larger radius than storm.
- A single storm will not invalidate multiple ghosts.
- Snipe has a longer range than feedback/storm.
- EMP has a longer range than feedback/storm.
- Protoss has the burden of storming before getting EMP'ed, with slower, shorter range, lower HP, non-cloaked high templars.

See how it goes both ways?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


[...]
*Right now I think that ghosts need a spell thats useful tvz besides snipe. Emp should drain some of the zergs hp just like how it gets rid of toss's shields. It's kind of silly that ghosts are only capable of doing splash damage in tvp and not tvz while infestors have fungal which is their splash damage spell.*


I understand that most races have splash damage, but that's not a reason to give terran a splash spell too (vs zerg). Every race has its advantages/disadvantages.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


So that's 30 vs 16 for full saturation based on AI. You see a reaver drop in BW you can only select a max of 12 units to move out the way then reboxing and PRAYING you dont reselect the previously selected workers because of AI.

In SC2 if you see a reaver drop, you can select your entire mineral line and move out the way because the AI moves WAY more efficiently.

So a BW reaver wouldn't work in SC2 simply cause the AI is so good.


In a sense this might make reaver drops absolutely devastating in sc2. In sc1, moving workers out would be done in packs. By moving all units at once, you might end up packing them tightly when turning a corner and losing 30+ at once.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I'm agreeing with everyone else. Even Rank 100 bronze players realize Colossi isn't a hard unit to micro.

I can literally get up from my chair go make a sandwich and come back to see groups of zerglings/marines roasted from the colossi's auto attack.

My mouse stopped working and I watched as my colossi just destroyed everything without any micro.


Colossi aren't hard to micro, but stalkers are. You have to be very quick to snipe down vikings/corruptors if your colossi are to stand a chance.

And a ****** sending 1 million zerglings into a pack of colossi hardly proves anything.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yes, microing a colossi is pretty easy since u don't need to micro







As for mirror matchups, i think it's their randomness that can be annoying. A single mistake in any can be deadly, much more so than non-mirror matchups










Colossi do need to be microed. Watch xiaot's latest game on gosugamers and you'll see how much he studdersteps back his colossi throughout the entire game (he would have lost otherwise).


----------



## DoomDash

They need to be microed sometimes, but its still easy. Just want a smarter unit back like the Reaver, which has the potential to do the same if not more damage as the Colossus, but is much more dependent on micro or an APM sink. I'm sure you can agree a unit like this is really missing from the Protoss arsenal. They even mention it on State of the Game. This just ends up going back to the problem... the Colossus was a poorly designed unit. Whether or not you think Protoss has no chance with out it, it's still a poorly designed unit. I think the Reaver would fill the roll if they made it right.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Should just switch back to BW if you feel that strongly bout it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13644448*
> Should just switch back to BW if you feel that strongly bout it.


Why? I play Terran, and I respect everything about Terran. I'm just expressing my opinion on why I don't play random in SCII like I did in BW.

I'll let these videos speak for themselves:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blMeBywzb50[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRlFuNHraM[/ame]

Reaver replacing Colossus would be a buff in the hands of the skilled, and a nerf in the hands of a newb. The high risk high reward APM sink unit Protoss just doesn't have in SCII.


----------



## Sainesk

so I was looking around teamliquid for ways to get better and I came across this 1000 tips thread... (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214757)

does this actually work and has anyone tried using it:
Quote:


> 17. Earlygame, you can permanently block an enemy's mineral patch with your scout by mining the mineral and clicking "stop" just before finishing - repeatedly.


lols another thing i didn't know but found funny:
Quote:


> 185. (T) Landed Vikings can load into a Medivac.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13644745*
> so I was looking around teamliquid for ways to get better and I came across this 1000 tips thread... (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214757)
> 
> does this actually work and has anyone tried using it:
> 
> lols another thing i didn't know but found funny:


Yeah it's true I see Huk doing it a lot. Its fun to do, I do it whenever i have apm to spare during the initial scout. You want to start mining right before the enemy's worker arrives which makes it move to a different patch. As long as you never finish mining you can keep doing it


----------



## DoomDash

Nexus first me will ya?!??!

Reapers are SO cool, I just wish they didn't take forever







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13643512*
> Colossi do need to be microed. Watch xiaot's latest game on gosugamers and you'll see how much he studdersteps back his colossi throughout the entire game (he would have lost otherwise).


Well, I'm not saying that you don't need to micro them, rather they are too easy to micro which makes winning using colossi less impressive IMO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13647977*
> 
> 
> Nexus first me will ya?!??!
> 
> Reapers are SO cool, I just wish they didn't take forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yes, they take a while to build, would be nice to see a reaper buff(build faster by 5 sec or so). Given, they might be harder to deal with then.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13644489*
> Why? I play Terran, and I respect everything about Terran. I'm just expressing my opinion on why I don't play random in SCII like I did in BW.
> 
> I'll let these videos speak for themselves:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blMeBywzb50
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRlFuNHraM
> 
> Reaver replacing Colossus would be a buff in the hands of the skilled, and a nerf in the hands of a newb. The high risk high reward APM sink unit Protoss just doesn't have in SCII.


Awesome videos, loved the 2nd one the most. Drop dragoon, cause tanks+vultures to auto-target then drop reaver, target tanks, retreat x 4 or so. Awesome micro indeed, would be nice to see that in SCII


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13649244*
> Awesome videos, loved the 2nd one the most. Drop dragoon, cause tanks+vultures to auto-target then drop reaver, target tanks, retreat x 4 or so. Awesome micro indeed, would be nice to see that in SCII


Glad we can finally agree on something. Honestly if you love Protoss you would love this change anyway, it's better for Protoss







.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13647977*
> 
> 
> Nexus first me will ya?!??!
> 
> Reapers are SO cool, I just wish they didn't take forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I know in 2v2 my friend always goes reapers and it sets us back alot


----------



## DoomDash

It's no wonder this guy is Terran EU up.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA[/ame]


----------



## ismet

someone add me!


----------



## DoomDash

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cut_Features


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cut_Features


that makes me miss the shield battery...







although the way SC2 is now, it could possibly be overpowered....


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ismet*


someone add me!


in game name and code?

And that marine micro is Pure Hax lol


----------



## DoomDash

Man I don't know what happened but I seem to have lost my touch in this game.

I think its about time to read "Art of War".


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's no wonder this guy is Terran EU up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA


and Happy is not known for his micro ...... guy is sick very stylistic but its just such a solid style it still wins so many games against some of the best.


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's no wonder this guy is Terran EU up.


well, I'll get there once I've sorta out my macro tyvm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13649330*
> *Glad we can finally agree on something.* Honestly if you love Protoss you would love this change anyway, it's better for Protoss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


U serious? I've been disappointed about them not adding the reaver since game release and I didn't realize that we disagreed on it in the first place


----------



## Nethermir

I have just finished reinstalling this game and looks like they have erased the ranks. Anything ultra special on this new season?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*   You rarely see it in high level play because toss players would rather stick to effective strategies.  
Really? What high level play do you watch? I still see 4gate in the NASL all the time. At least in PvP.
Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Mwarren*   Right now I think that ghosts need a spell thats useful tvz besides snipe. Emp should drain some of the zergs hp just like how it gets rid of toss's shields. It's kind of silly that ghosts are only capable of doing splash damage in tvp and not tvz while infestors have fungal which is their splash damage spell.  
Terran has the most damaging spash damage spell of any race...
  
 You Tube


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;13660963*
> Really? What high level play do you watch? I still see 4gate in the NASL all the time. At least in PvP.
> 
> Terran has the most damaging spash damage spell of any race...


I know you're kidding, but when is the last time you saw a nuke hit anything worthwhile? Never. Because they don't. Because it takes 3 seconds to move your units out of the 10 billion seconds it takes for a nuke to land. Fungal growth and storm are the only on-demand AoE. Nuke is for 4v4 hilarity.

AND they cost 100min/100gas, which you don't get back even if you cancel a nuke right after you start it. Which is just added insult to injury.


----------



## ntherblast

anyone else see the heart of the swarm teaser?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13661217*
> anyone else see the heart of the swarm teaser?


Yeah, but it seems to be taken down everywhere now. Nothing exciting about it IMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Found it again:
http://www.thegx.co/news/1310/leaked...swarm-trailer/


----------



## BenRK

STILL looking for someone to make me less noobish on Starcraft 2. Preferably someone who can train me in Terran arts of war. Sparing buddy. Someone to pick on when I get better. Etc.

North America... PM please?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's no wonder this guy is Terran EU up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA


Not bad, liked the marine split in the first portion. Second portion wasn't crazy impressive










Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Found it again:
http://www.thegx.co/news/1310/leaked...swarm-trailer/


Doesn't work :/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BenRK*


STILL looking for someone to make me less noobish on Starcraft 2. Preferably someone who can train me in Terran arts of war. Sparing buddy. Someone to pick on when I get better. Etc.

North America... PM please?


PM sent.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Doesn't work :/


I just tested it, still working. If you have ad-block-plus you have to turn it off first.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just tested it, still working. If you have ad-block-plus you have to turn it off first.


hmm, its working now but only the sound, no video


----------



## yks

i love bomber. like ~20 nukes or more in 1 game.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


i love bomber. like ~20 nukes or more in 1 game.


Killer is going to own his face.

Must've missed it lol. Hide spoilers







.


----------



## yks

man, that game was horrible. but the nukes were awesome


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is this NASL or GSL super?


----------



## BigFan

Some long games, but, interesting. Thought you guys might enjoy these:

The bad:


The good:


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13663605*
> Is this NASL or GSL super?


gsl super


----------



## Eskanasi

So... am I the only one here who plays on SEA?


----------



## DoomDash

http://nasl.tv/News/Article/20110521the-evolution-of-zerg-versus-terran


----------



## Wishmaker

Holly Molly!!!

http://youtu.be/YbpCLqryN-Q


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker;13664687*
> Holly Molly!!!
> 
> http://youtu.be/YbpCLqryN-Q


Holly Molly? Did you mean Holey Moley


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13664041*
> http://nasl.tv/News/Article/20110521the-evolution-of-zerg-versus-terran


nice, as I thought, TvsZ is volatile but pretty balanced match up. Some marine harass if they exp before pool followed by a strong MT push can be really devastating if the Z doesn't scout it or skimps on defense. At the same time, there is a worry of a bane bust or infestors if going heavy bio so worries on both ends XD


----------



## l337sft

I was having such huge problems beating terran when they turtle up, but i pretty much got it on lock with my 2 colossi range timing. I seem to beat terran just about every time unless they go cloaked banshees, but even then its still something i can recover from.

My biggest problem is knowing what is coming when i scout, for example, i scouting this zergs base, by the time i got there the pool was done, so i figured he 6 pooled ( this was on scrap station ) So i threw down a forge and a cannon and held off the first ling push, then i pushed out right after charge finished, and he just completely rolled my army with TONS of roaches. So i went back to my base, warped in DTs and zealots, and he came back and destroyed a decent amount of my base, and my DTs cleaned up all the roaches. But then 10 seconds later there was another army almost as big as the first one at my door again and i lost.

What can i do to stop this 1 base roach all inning? I lose to it all the time. Get more stalkers? Get immortals?

Also, is there any videos or website, or articles or posts anywhere that will help me with scouting. I scout, i always send a second probe, but i have a hard time actually making out whats coming based on what i see sometimes. Im not that bad of a player, but im just trying to refine these flaws i have with my gameplay.

EDIT: i just played 2 games and got ROLLED by 3 base roach hydra, im getting so frustrated, i have no idea how to beat it.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13667458*
> 
> My biggest problem is knowing what is coming when i scout, for example, i scouting this zergs base, by the time i got there the pool was done, so i figured he 6 pooled ( this was on scrap station ) So i threw down a forge and a cannon and held off the first ling push, then i pushed out right after charge finished, and he just completely rolled my army with TONS of roaches. So i went back to my base, warped in DTs and zealots, and he came back and destroyed a decent amount of my base, and my DTs cleaned up all the roaches. But then 10 seconds later there was another army almost as big as the first one at my door again and i lost.
> 
> EDIT: i just played 2 games and got ROLLED by 3 base roach hydra, im getting so frustrated, i have no idea how to beat it.


Were you rushing DTs? If not, why the Dark Shrine so early? Sounds like an extraneous building that costs a lot of gas and time. Get immortals and stalkers instead, they deal with early roaches much more effectively, and then can transition to colossi, which deal with hydras effectively which is what the zerg's next step is usually after roaches. If you like the deathball army, don't get extra buildings like the Dark Shrine or Templar Archives until you have the resources to swing it (usually on 3 base).

Just work on your macro. Find a build that you like, doesn't matter what it is, and stick with it and don't get extra stuff and make sure your money is low. If you get thrown off by early attacks or weird builds from your opponent, deal with it within the constraints of your plan (like 3 gate robo seeing a lot of mutas, build a greater amount of stalkers than you might usually) and come back to your plan. If you see an early pool and no expo, it's probably not a good idea to go crazy with tech (like charge), you should get some units instead, and once you deal with the initial pressure come back to your build.

An OK plan is one where you say "I will push when I have X" where X can be any units in any amount, like pushing on 2 colossi with range. A better plan is one that accounts for what your opponent is NOT doing and keeping the possibilities of what he is doing in mind, while building your units.

Before you have an observer it is definitely hard to ascertain what a zerg might be doing prior to him showing up on your doorstep because of lings and queens denying scouting. But just think what he *can't* do if you don't see an expo, and prepare for everything else. He can't go mutas, not enough money to get enough to be effective. He can't go infestors, too long to get to on one-base and still be effective, too much gas. He can't go hydra/roach, not enough money. You can pretty much say he probably won't be going to a lair, and if he does, you'll be so far ahead it won't matter. He can go baneling/ling, roach/ling or fast roach/ling all in on one base. Same goes if you see an expo. He *can't* do the super early pressure builds because he spent 300 minerals and the time required in order to build an expo, and needed to make sure it was defended during that time.


----------



## murderbymodem

(I'm cirE btw)


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;13668563*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I'm cirE btw)


Ive noticed this becoming more popular ZvZ its dumb, nothing a decent scout cant help fend off, gotta love how they just leave because they know they have no chance should have brought his drones made a spine in your base lol defended it with the lings and banes


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ATM PvP is all cheese too.


----------



## BountyHead

Makes me almost miss the days of i can get roaches and upgrades faster than you.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## onoz

What exactly is cheese? I always assumed that, for a player to "cheese", they would do "cheap" attack combos that were pretty much invincible (or are close to being so).


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz;13673686*
> What exactly is cheese? I always assumed that, for a player to "cheese", they would do "cheap" attack combos that were pretty much invincible (or are close to being so).


Generally I think cheese is something that doesn't take much skill to be effective, cannon rushes, 6/9 pools, bunker rushes, drone/probe/scv all ins ect. Proxy buildings are cheesy. Most of these can be stopped with good scouting. But if you don't know how they are insta-wins, first time i got proxy gated i failed so hard now when it happen i know how to stop it. Im still working on bunker rushes those own me hard. Im starting to drone scout more though should help. Silver league cheese ftw. Goes good with my zerg wine ( everything is imba ;-p)

Also why the odd pic of Day9 granted hes odd a lot of times.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

Hey guys, a guy tried to battle cruiser rush me last night in Platinum lol







I'm a zerg and we were playing on Zel Naga Caverns. I'm hoping to get into diamond soon once my exams are over









I attached the replay incase you wish to view it.

Matt


----------



## yks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYOrUODL3fI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

only the best ever.


----------



## DoomDash

Seems like just yesterday I was killing all Cella's probes with my Hellions.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227417

Remember when I was telling everyone the buff change was NERF in a TvP? Looks like the pros are starting to agree:
Quote:


> Actually, my teammates and I think that it was a Ghost nerf. You usually see ghosts in TvP where bio is the norm, but bio requires lots of minerals, not gas. Ghosts can now double-EMP a location quickly, which is an obvious fix now that EMP only takes off 100 mana. In TvZ, the Infestor buff will probably make Ghosts a required addition in the standard Marine, Tank, Medivac composition. Before the patch, most Zergs went Mutalisks, Zerglings, and Banelings. But nowadays, Zergs goes Mutas, Zerglings, and Infestors and replacing Banes. I think building Ghosts to counter that is semi-mandatory. Although some chooses to add both Banelings and Infestors instead of Mutalisks, I think Mutas are still standard. In the past you had to snare Marines with Infestors and hit them with Banes. Now that Fungal's DPS has increased, you can just kill Marines in two casts so replacing Banes with Infestors have now become more popular. If you play with Infestors that way, you can transition to Hive tech naturally, and from there it transitions smoothly into Broodlords. These kinds of Zergs are hard to play against.


Told you guys in TvP is was a nerf in theory, glad to see other people are noticing too.


----------



## DoomDash

ROFL:

http://www.banelingbbq.com/?comic=17


----------



## yks

2600k here i come!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

New CPU? lol


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13676530*
> ROFL:
> 
> http://www.banelingbbq.com/?comic=17


HAHAH!!! The command center one is my favorite.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


HAHAH!!! The command center one is my favorite.


I like the happy bane one









Socke against Zenio on NASL, interesting match!







Beat the Lost Viking game, got to wave 5 with 215000 for a score, hopefully I can eventually get 500000 XD I'll post the screenshot of what you get when you beat the terra-tron


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

People love taking pictures of their food. I don't know why.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13683081*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAU0zYuvJ7w


lol at QQ slings and omg blings...

i'm going to have to start doing that in every game now...


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13684124*
> lol at QQ slings and omg blings...
> 
> i'm going to have to start doing that in every game now...


I had to buy the flac track lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Who's staying up to watch GSL.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Fungal is soooooo good vs terran....


----------



## l337sft

Fungal doesnt belong in the game, its the only spell in the game that just completely stops your units, you can micro out of storm and an emp, but fungal is guaranteed damage and the only thing the other player can do is wait. Thats not the way the game is meant to be played.

Everything else blends in with the game pace/style, but fungal is like a bump in the middle of it, it just puts a pause on things, and thats not starcraft.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13643512*
> Newsflash: 4-gate is an absolutely terrible strategy *vs terran AND zerg*. It was bad pre-patch and is bad now. It works in bronze -> platinum because the build is relatively simple and allows for a large number of units early on.
> 
> You rarely see it in high level play because toss players would rather stick to effective strategies.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;13660963*
> Really? What high level play do you watch? I still see 4gate in the NASL all the time. At least in PvP.


-_-
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz;13673686*
> What exactly is cheese? I always assumed that, for a player to "cheese", they would do "cheap" attack combos that were pretty much invincible (or are close to being so).


Cheese is a "roll of the dice" strategy where you're relying on chance to win a match and hoping to catch the opponent unprepared. ie: DTs, canon rush, proxy rax/gate/hatch, 6-7-8 pool, and any all-in.


----------



## DoomDash

You want to see how mad a Zerg gets when you have way less base but the building armor and range upgrade? Hero plantaries, ect ect.


:wub: :wub:

Some poop talk included.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Thought I'd share a PvP strategy I've been using mostly on Xel'Naga or on larger maps where I'm lucky with scouting. I did it for fun a few days ago and haven't lost doing it yet;

9 pylon halfway to ramp, scout immediately. Do not let your scout die.
13 gate.
Save 150 minerals.
Steal BOTH gas. Take at least 1 of your own gas if the opponent is scouting in your base.
At this point the opponent has 2 "viable" options;
Kill the assimilators and play the game FAR behind on tech.
Zealot/canon rush.

Most of the time they go for option 2, but either way is a losing battle.
Make a forge asap and canon up while CBing out zealots.
Win.


----------



## Twistacles

Hm. I feel like I just am not improving at all. Are people just learning to roflstomp terran or am I just bad? =/

Marine tank seems predictable and stupid, and works only if they endlessly suicide into your army, or if you set up an early contain.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13685214*
> Fungal doesnt belong in the game, its the only spell in the game that just completely stops your units, you can micro out of storm and an emp, but fungal is guaranteed damage and the only thing the other player can do is wait. Thats not the way the game is meant to be played.
> 
> Everything else blends in with the game pace/style, but fungal is like a bump in the middle of it, it just puts a pause on things, and thats not starcraft.


Well.... It's not like you can micro out of emps since it's instant. The only things you can do is position your units well. Besides, as Terran, there should be scans ready before you move into a place.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13686753*
> Thought I'd share a PvP strategy I've been using mostly on Xel'Naga or on larger maps where I'm lucky with scouting. I did it for fun a few days ago and haven't lost doing it yet;
> 
> 9 pylon halfway to ramp, scout immediately. Do not let your scout die.
> 13 gate.
> Save 150 minerals.
> Steal BOTH gas. Take at least 1 of your own gas if the opponent is scouting in your base.
> At this point the opponent has 2 "viable" options;
> Kill the assimilators and play the game FAR behind on tech.
> Zealot/canon rush.
> 
> Most of the time they go for option 2, but either way is a losing battle.
> Make a forge asap and canon up while CBing out zealots.
> Win.


Doesn't work vs people who know how to FE. I just won vs this strat few days ago. But I guess you won't be doing this strat if you scouted on two player maps, since on big maps if you miss your scout you may not see the proxy 2 gates at 10.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13687293*
> Hm. I feel like I just am not improving at all. Are people just learning to roflstomp terran or am I just bad? =/
> 
> Marine tank seems predictable and stupid, and works only if they endlessly suicide into your army, or if you set up an early contain.


I feel the same. I have no success in Season 2 at all. Terran is pretty figured out now days. Trying new stuff but it doesn't really work very well ( like tank bio emp vs protoss ) for how much effort you put into it.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13687293*
> Hm. I feel like I just am not improving at all. Are people just learning to roflstomp terran or am I just bad? =/
> 
> Marine tank seems predictable and stupid, and works only if they endlessly suicide into your army, or if you set up an early contain.


Marine/Tank works well in tvz and tvt but you have to constantly harrass/maintain map control/and stay ahead on your macro. The key to winning with terran is harassing and out multi tasking your opponent.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13687402*
> Doesn't work vs people who know how to FE. I just won vs this strat few days ago. But I guess you won't be doing this strat if you scouted on two player maps, since on big maps if you miss your scout you may not see the proxy 2 gates at 10.


Nobody FEs in masters PvP because it's suicide.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

True, but 150 minerals means your cyber's delayed as well, as well as the first zealot. If you're going to just send chrono'd zealots after, well placed canons and zealots can stop the rush at first and then just react to what you're teching to. The other player can react and steal at least one of your gas as well. I've only played vs this strat twice and won both, so I don't know.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdj-hUHq-uI[/ame]

As T, how are you supposed to even try to stop infestor/corruptor/BL. Other than cloaked ghosts your T3 units suck vs that composition.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13686239*
> You want to see how mad a Zerg gets when you have way less base but the building armor and range upgrade? Hero plantaries, ect ect.
> 
> 
> :wub: :wub:


Love how you sit there and click the command center to make your apm high







Then click between center + supply, then click the scv around ........

And instead of 8 barracks, y not 4 with reactor cores?

Actually thats lame


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13689034*
> True, but 150 minerals means your cyber's delayed as well, as well as the first zealot. If you're going to just send chrono'd zealots after, well placed canons and zealots can stop the rush at first and then just react to what you're teching to. The other player can react and steal at least one of your gas as well. I've only played vs this strat twice and won both, so I don't know.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdj-hUHq-uI
> 
> As T, how are you supposed to even try to stop infestor/corruptor/BL. Other than cloaked ghosts your T3 units suck vs that composition.


Ghosts/vikings/turrets.......


----------



## Para.v31

Ye, pretty hard to stop it seems. I actually thought the zerg was playing bad, at least in the beginning. Take the helion harass for example: losing 10 drones or so. Later in the game I think terran should have micro'd his vikings better. Don't clump them up but approach the BL's from multiple angles. He should also have made ghosts and EMP the hell out of the infestors.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Ghosts/vikings/turrets.......


lol. Select said the same in that video. Watch it.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Love how you sit there and click the command center to make your apm high







Then click between center + supply, then click the scv around ........

And instead of 8 barracks, y not 4 with reactor cores?

Actually thats lame


Its warming up, and 8 barracks is more flexible than 4 with reactors, a pack of mutas can come in and 2-3 shot a reactor.


----------



## Allenssmart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Its warming up, and 8 barracks is more flexible than 4 with reactors, a pack of mutas can come in and 2-3 shot a reactor.


who makes mutas anymore? infestor ling is where it's at


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You want to see how mad a Zerg gets when you have way less base but the building armor and range upgrade? Hero plantaries, ect ect.

 
:wub: :wub:

Some poop talk included.










Nice









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Hm. I feel like I just am not improving at all. Are people just learning to roflstomp terran or am I just bad? =/

Marine tank seems predictable and stupid, and works only if they endlessly suicide into your army, or if you set up an early contain.


Could it be option C? Both?








/joke

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Ghosts/vikings/turrets.......


hmm, I think against Infestor/Corruptor/BL, ghost/marine/tank are best. Ghost can emp Infestors/snipe BLs, marines with stim and upgrades chew through BLs(from personal experience) and Corruptors can't attack ground so they are almost useless if you have no air









Update: Got a total score of 624k for the Lost Viking game and got the gold achievement. Survived up to lvl 11 at which point I pretty much gave up with no more bombs to use and it was almost impossible to avoid the splash of the scourge. It's kinda amazing how long it takes to even get close to 500k, over 45min easy and it gets a lot harder. It's even, dare I say it, more intense than some of the SCII matches I've had XD

For those who are interested in trying to get this achievement, I'll give a couple of tips(*ahem* Calm *ahem*):

1. During all the levels, having the missile weapon is a much better idea than the plasma due to its splash if u wanna call it that. Much easier to kill all the different enemies aside from the mini bosses(phenoixes/swarm guardians, bcs, etc....). The plasma is only useful for the bosses since its a concentrated attack(mostly terra-tron, better to use missile for carrier(due to interceptors)/leviathan(since you'll need it in the next level)).
2. Save as many bombs as possible. When you are fighting in the Zerg level and shooting all those scourages, you'll find that you are going to be surrounded by their green globs and maneuvering through them without dying is almost impossible. Use a bomb then, same when you find that you can't escape death because you are pined or about to be hit by some weapon from any unit.
3. Always try to get to the max upgrade of your weapon(2 or 3 for missile, 1 for plasma).
4. Always get drones because they are amazing at helping with shots and taking one for the team.
5. If you see a floating upgrade or whatever you want to call it, wait until it changes to an upgrade you want and make sure to snatch it then if you can otherwise it's not always worth the risk.
6. Be patient in the game. I didn't get to 125k, 250k and 500k in the same day. Once I got 125k, I was able to get 250k and then 500k the next day. It takes a lot of time so make sure to budget your time wisely(don't start if you don't have time since you can't save) and try to take out as many units as possible in the earlier levels because it gets harder to do so later on.
6. Most important, *SPAM* spacebar. Don't just keep your hand on it, keep pressing it because it fires faster this way








Enjoy!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13693362*
> 
> Update: Got a total score of 624k for the Lost Viking game and got the gold achievement. Survived up to lvl 11 at which point I pretty much gave up with no more bombs to use and it was almost impossible to avoid the splash of the scourge. It's kinda amazing how long it takes to even get close to 500k, over 45min easy and it gets a lot harder. It's even, dare I say it, more intense than some of the SCII matches I've had XD
> 
> For those who are interested in trying to get this achievement, I'll give a couple of tips(*ahem* Calm *ahem*):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. During all the levels, having the missile weapon is a much better idea than the plasma due to its splash if u wanna call it that. Much easier to kill all the different enemies aside from the mini bosses(phenoixes/swarm guardians, bcs, etc....). The plasma is only useful for the bosses since its a concentrated attack(mostly terra-tron, better to use missile for carrier(due to interceptors)/leviathan(since you'll need it in the next level)).
> 2. Save as many bombs as possible. When you are fighting in the Zerg level and shooting all those scourages, you'll find that you are going to be surrounded by their green globs and maneuvering through them without dying is almost impossible. Use a bomb then, same when you find that you can't escape death because you are pined or about to be hit by some weapon from any unit.
> 3. Always try to get to the max upgrade of your weapon(2 or 3 for missile, 1 for plasma).
> 4. Always get drones because they are amazing at helping with shots and taking one for the team.
> 5. If you see a floating upgrade or whatever you want to call it, wait until it changes to an upgrade you want and make sure to snatch it then if you can otherwise it's not always worth the risk.
> 6. Be patient in the game. I didn't get to 125k, 250k and 500k in the same day. Once I got 125k, I was able to get 250k and then 500k the next day. It takes a lot of time so make sure to budget your time wisely(don't start if you don't have time since you can't save) and try to take out as many units as possible in the earlier levels because it gets harder to do so later on.
> 6. Most important, *SPAM* spacebar. Don't just keep your hand on it, keep pressing it because it fires faster this way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


I call hax









my one weakness, the achievement i'll never get...









gratz dude!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13694544*
> I call hax
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my one weakness, the achievement i'll never get...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gratz dude!


Of course, it's hax. I mean playing LV for a couple of hours a day for 2 days, spamming like a madmen and almost being driven to insanity is hax, no?









Thanks, I put in the time/effort and it paid off. Those tips I wrote were actually targetted at you







You're pretty close to 250k. Just work on timings(when to use bomb, what upgrades are important first, etc....), maneuvering and being efficient(hitting as many targets as possible) and you should be able to hit 250k easily. Once I hit 125k, I hit 250k in the next game, but, 500k is the hard one. It took maybe 5-6 games, very intense ones might I add to get 500k, closest before was 471k


----------



## DoomDash

I hope I get into HotS beta.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wonder if this works:


----------



## Eskanasi

What is that toblerone? hots?

Looks like an RPG.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## BountyHead

I want the upgraded banes and lurkers in multi, oh to destroy marines, faster!

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


----------



## Tchernobyl

I see your screenshots, and raise you: VIDEOS.

http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm/news/starcraft_2_heart_of_the_swarm,44594,2323283.html

The site is in german, but the videos are in english. Scroll down to the video section to play them, and if you want a bigger version, don't click on the image, but the link directly beneath it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl;13697985*
> I see your screenshots, and raise you: VIDEOS.
> 
> http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm/news/starcraft_2_heart_of_the_swarm,44594,2323283.html
> 
> The site is in german, but the videos are in english. Scroll down to the video section to play them, and if you want a bigger version, don't click on the image, but the link directly beneath it.


Hey Tchernobyl, nice to see you drop by









Nice screenshots, love the first one. Really hope HoTS's SP is similar to WoL's SP with achievements and such









For anyone interested in HoTS: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13698696*
> Hey Tchernobyl, nice to see you drop by
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice screenshots, love the first one. Really hope HoTS's SP is similar to WoL's SP with achievements and such
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in HoTS: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212


Needed to go to bed then i saw the HotS stuff posted @ like 1am lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;13700604*
> Needed to go to bed then i saw the HotS stuff posted @ like 1am lol


lol, I just got a chance to read through it. It's gonna be awesome, slings that can jump, different types of zlings/banes, stricter storyline, more achievements, you get to use kerrigan as well. Can't wait!


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13707136*
> lol, I just got a chance to read through it. It's gonna be awesome, slings that can jump, different types of zlings/banes, stricter storyline, more achievements, you get to use kerrigan as well. Can't wait!


I wants it NAO!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

New units! Aka I will pay 60 dollars for a 20 dollar expansion.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13707136*
> lol, I just got a chance to read through it. It's gonna be awesome, slings that can jump, different types of zlings/banes, stricter storyline, more achievements, you get to use kerrigan as well. Can't wait!


slings that can jump like reapers? Thats OP, you'll see mass jumping slings and no defending expos


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13708445*
> slings that can jump like reapers? Thats OP, you'll see mass jumping slings and no defending expos


More like charge.

Man, at my MMR I get almost all TvZ, some TvT, and not very much TvP... kinda weird.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

With my mmr I'm still playing plat players... even more weird sometimes I actually loose to them.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13708886*
> With my mmr I'm still playing plat players... even more weird sometimes I actually loose to them.


Stop messing around in Diamond and get into masters already.


----------



## yks

With my MMR, I'm having sooooooo much fun raping newbs.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13708886*
> With my mmr I'm still playing plat players... even more weird sometimes I actually loose to them.


ouch, well, I guess it's not all that bad








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13708917*
> Stop messing around in Diamond and get into masters already.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13708930*
> With my MMR, I'm having sooooooo much fun raping newbs.


rofl, is this your NA or KR account?

















With my MMR, I just macro up, a-move while making a sandwich and then come back to a menu screen with the last message being gg wp


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13708917*
> Stop messing around in Diamond and get into masters already.


All about the fundamentals.

It's sad how many people get carried into 2v2R Masters.


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13708495*
> More like charge.
> 
> Man, at my MMR I get almost all TvZ, some TvT, and not very much TvP... kinda weird.


I just played four games in a row and got 2 protoss and 2 zerg. I haven't seen a lot of terran at my lowly gold rating either.

Weird.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

SlayerS is owning atm.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Still haven't lost using that silly 2 gas steal strat, here's a replay vs a 1073 rated opponent: clicky.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13710351*
> Still haven't lost using that silly 2 gas steal strat, here's a replay vs a 1073 rated opponent: clicky.


Lol, that's cheesy, but I guess if someone's seen it before they can just take the other gas before your probe gets there and you'll end up behind.

I've just completed Witcher 2. Awesome game. It seems my sc2 skill suffered though after a week break and I'm constantly getting supply blocked like a bronze-leaguer.


----------



## Sainesk

<3 TL so many interesting strategies, like boss cannon rush, haven't tried it yet though...
Quote:


> Hidden cannon rushes suck. They are easily defended if scouted, and almost everyone scouts for them once they see your forge. They often require more resources, cannons, and time. The BOSS cannon rush is in your face. It screams "I don't care what you do, or that you see this, you will watch my cannons go up and kill you." It is the epitome of manly cheese, almost as manly as making gates right next to someone's nexus.


lol









also, mi wantz hot beta keeeeeeeeeeeeee...


----------



## Silentness

Scrap Station... TvZ without turrets = suicide.

I should of known better *face palm* I got raped by mass mutas.

By the time I clear up the mutas... hey look mass infestors. *fungal growth* to death


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13716906*
> <3 TL so many interesting strategies, like boss cannon rush, haven't tried it yet though...
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, mi wantz hot beta keeeeeeeeeeeeee...










@ boss cannon rush.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13718760*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ boss cannon rush.


When you do it you have to type " CAUSE IM DA BAUSS" over and over again


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhgB-pp6OlU[/ame]

I agree with Husky on his HotS wish list. This is what me and jediwin were talking about / wishing SCII had. Though he doesn't directly mention the Colossus being a huge problem, it's pretty obvious that its majority of the Protoss problem.


----------



## BountyHead

Its so true, PvP is who can get the collosi faster! late game 5+ collosi and mass blink stalker, annihilate just about everything.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah they just need to go back to the drawing board.


----------



## BountyHead

I think you posted earlier that toss should have reavers as their siege unit and i completely agree.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

I do not think the solution is adding more SC1 units, then it just become more and more just SC1 with fancy graphics.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13721082*
> I do not think the solution is adding more SC1 units, then it just become more and more just SC1 with fancy graphics.


I don't agree at all. Still a completely different game, one or two replaced units won't change that. It doesn't have to be the Reaver, but for the love of god please remove the poorly designed unit known as the Colossus in favor of something more exciting yet still good.


----------



## yks

Bomber missed his flight due to visa issues and is being replaced by MC.

First match of MLG: Idra vs MC, i think.

nice way to start it off.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

WIll there be streams of the games?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13709097*
> All about the fundamentals.
> 
> It's sad how many people get carried into 2v2R Masters.


Speaking of that, I was watching Leah Jackson (the girl from G4TV) playing 2v2s with ROOTDrewbie last night. They were Masters. It made me sad that myself and the friend I 2v2 with most are only Gold


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228922

MC and July to MLG.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

yeah was posted earlier


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13727664*
> yeah was posted earlier


inb4 july takes the open spot in grp C true group of death then


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Lol, this zerg said to me, "It's too easy for protoss to tech switch".


----------



## DoomDash

Man I can't win TvP at all anymore.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Man I can't win TvP at all anymore.


You need more banshees obviously. And by more I mean your entire army. Banshees. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ftw.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is E the hotkey for banshees?"


----------



## DoomDash

9-8 for today.

4-1 TvT
1-3 TvP
4-3 TvZ


----------



## yellowtoblerone

P is my worst matchup as well. I think I'm like 30% in pvp. I'm less than 50% in pvt. This is so funny since while in season 1 I pretty much won 80% of the pvp/pvt matchups.

I don't think I can get to masters..


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


P is my worst matchup as well. I think I'm like 30% in pvp. I'm less than 50% in pvt. This is so funny since while in season 1 I pretty much won 80% of the pvp/pvt matchups.

I don't think I can get to masters..


PvT is so easy for toss..3 gate contain and get to the lategame and you auto-win


----------



## DoomDash

But you're good vs Z? I floated on TvP for a long time, but this patch is ROUGH. Now I am pulling up my TvT and TvZ and getting crushed TvP. I think as long as you are sick at one match up you can get to masters.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


PvT is so easy for toss..3 gate contain and get to the lategame and you auto-win


Late game feels so lopsided right now... worse than amulet days because back then people weren't upgrading very well. This new archon change is disgusting. Did you guys just watch Cruncher vs QXC?

They are actually talking about possible nerfs now on the stream heh.


----------



## the.FBI

Anyone else having issues connecting? I can go to manage account and it works but when I try SC2 it just says login info incorrect or subimitting non personal system specifications...


----------



## yks

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/show/the-arrival-mlg-columbus-2011/973476386001?account=1

Koreans land video!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL Chinese FTW. I'm racist against those Koreans! (except MC/San/Alicia, they're my hero).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13732474*
> PvT is so easy for toss..3 gate contain and get to the lategame and you auto-win


Maybe so but there are still those that quickly three rax all in you on wide ramps like slag.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13732486*
> Late game feels so lopsided right now... worse than amulet days because back then people weren't upgrading very well. This new archon change is disgusting. Did you guys just watch Cruncher vs QXC?
> 
> They are actually talking about possible nerfs now on the stream heh.


I disagree. Amulet was absolutely insane and granted protoss storms on-the-fly. I would take back amulet in exchange for the archon change any day.

Everyone talks about imbalance and all that jazz, TvZ is impossible, TvP is imbalanced, etc, etc. If the imbalance was so stark, why does terran have the highest win % of any race (masters & GM)? How are pros staying competitive, given their handicap? 3 protoss in top 15 at NASL.

Dare I say, nerf terran? No, because the game is VERY close to balanced right now.


----------



## poroboszcz

So, as Protoss, how do I deal with sling/bling/infestor + drops?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13736900*
> So, as Protoss, how do I deal with sling/bling/infestor + drops?


There will always be imbalances on certain maps, at certain points in matches, and between various unit compositions.

In fact, there is imbalance between marines/lings/zealots. One is fast, one has range, and the other makes a great tank. Between the three, they aren't "balanced", but they each bring something to the table, making them "fair". You could argue that the entire game is balanced like this.

To answer your question;
- Snipe infestors with colossus.
- Make very good use of FF.
- Add zealots WITHOUT charge to deal with lings that get through.
- Phoenix work great to snipe off overlords, and to disable infestors.
- Make sure health/energy bars are always showing so that you can ignore low mana infestors.
- A good trick is to put yourself in a spot where you know the opponent will attempt a 2-front attack. Bait him into it and completely wall off one side, and take out portions at a time.
- HTs are awesome vs this army composition too.

Edit: Of course you also need to consider how the game progressed to get there.


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13737411*
> There will always be imbalances on certain maps, at certain points in matches, and between various unit compositions.
> 
> In fact, there is imbalance between marines/lings/zealots. One is fast, one has range, and the other makes a great tank. Between the three, they aren't "balanced", but they each bring something to the table, making them "fair". You could argue that the entire game is balanced like this.
> 
> To answer your question;
> - Snipe infestors with colossus.
> - Make very good use of FF.
> - Add zealots WITHOUT charge to deal with lings that get through.
> - Phoenix work great to snipe off overlords, and to disable infestors.
> - *Make sure health/energy bars are always showing so that you can ignore low mana infestors.*
> - A good trick is to put yourself in a spot where you know the opponent will attempt a 2-front attack. Bait him into it and completely wall off one side, and take out portions at a time.
> - HTs are awesome vs this army composition too.
> 
> Edit: Of course you also need to consider how the game progressed to get there.


The bolded part is some good advice right there. I never thought to do that. Thanks!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13736455*
> I disagree. Amulet was absolutely insane and granted protoss storms on-the-fly. I would take back amulet in exchange for the archon change any day.
> 
> Everyone talks about imbalance and all that jazz, TvZ is impossible, TvP is imbalanced, etc, etc. If the imbalance was so stark, why does terran have the highest win % of any race (masters & GM)? How are pros staying competitive, given their handicap? 3 protoss in top 15 at NASL.
> 
> Dare I say, nerf terran? No, because the game is VERY close to balanced right now.


Terran always did the best, even in BW. My theory on that one is just because the style of Terran attracts the most talented players ( and rewards them the most ). Just my opinion. Still over all Terran is the least represented race in the highest leagues.

I know amulet > archon change ect ect, but my point is back then Protoss weren't as good / playing it properly with double forge ect ect. Protoss players now know what they are doing much more than back then. The Archon change is still hella good though. No Amulet but still most people would probably agree that TvP was already P favored late game. Not only that but Sentries build faster, stim is delayed a ton, and bunkers are slow now as well. Things are just different.

I'm sure statistics will side with me soon enough.







. It's pretty obvious by watching to notice a pretty big advantage late game.

Anyway it is slightly Terran favored early anyway as yellow said. But less than ever before.


----------



## CravinR1

How do you show the health/energy bars during play? I know how to do it during a replay


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13737991*
> How do you show the health/energy bars during play? I know how to do it during a replay


You can have it on "Always on" in the menu's, or just hold alt.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13737991*
> How do you show the health/energy bars during play? I know how to do it during a replay


options, gameplay, under show unit status bar I believe...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I just think the game shouldn't be balanced for one race in the beginning and balanced for another in the end. But then that's were the timing attacks come from.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13738430*
> I just think the game shouldn't be balanced for one race in the beginning and balanced for another in the end. But then that's were the timing attacks come from.


Well I agree. I had been asking for a Marauder nerf months ago ( 15 damage to armored vs 10 ) before all these other Terran nerfs and Protoss buffs, in exchange for +3 damage per tank upgrade level ( vs armored )... something that only really affects late game Terran. Now I feel like that would be terrible though because of the recent stim delays, decreased sentry build time, slow bunkers, ect. Ship has probably sailed unless they adjust more.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13737991*
> How do you show the health/energy bars during play? I know how to do it during a replay


Either turn it on under gameplay or press alt during the game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13738458*
> Well I agree. I had been asking for a Marauder nerf months ago ( 15 damage to armored vs 10 ) before all these other Terran nerfs and Protoss buffs, in exchange for +3 damage per tank upgrade level ( vs armored )... something that only really affects late game Terran. Now I feel like that would be terrible though because of the recent stim delays, decreased sentry build time, slow bunkers, ect. Ship has probably sailed unless they adjust more.


Blizz doesn't plan on changing the marauder at all. Personally, I would rather they did away with it and added another more interesting units with cs but that MO.
As to the MUs, it won't be the case that no one race has an advantage at a point in any game. If they buff gateway units to deal with MM and take out ff, then gateway+colossi would slaughter MMM much faster if u don't have enough vikings, but, if they don't, there is a heavy reliance on the sentry and ffs to survive the early game. Basically, any change for any race will affect more than just one period of time in a game. Having said that, I think the game is pretty balanced IMO


----------



## yks

This is going to be the longest 4hours til MLG


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Calm before the storm?

Man I have such a tough time vs zerg on close positions when zerg goes roach infestor on two base then taking a third.


----------



## Mwarren

Personally, I feel as though the only thing that needs a buff are siege tanks in TvP. They should either have an upgrade that makes them do +damage vs shields, or make it so that their +damage per upgrade scales higher. Right now tanks in TvP are useless. Out of all of the pro TvP's that I have seen where the terran went siege tanks, the terran only won because he outplayed his opponent. Meaning, he would of won even if he didn't make siege tanks.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13738797*
> This is going to be the longest 4hours til MLG


MLG is today?







Sweet, means that I can actually watch it XD What's the starting time, 5 EST?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13738931*
> *Calm before the storm?*
> 
> Man I have such a tough time vs zerg on close positions when zerg goes roach infestor on two base then taking a third.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;13738997*
> Personally, I feel as though the only thing that needs a buff are siege tanks in TvP. They should either have an upgrade that makes them do +damage vs shields, or make it so that their +damage per upgrade scales higher. Right now tanks in TvP are useless. Out of all of the pro TvP's that I have seen where the terran went siege tanks, the terran only won because he outplayed his opponent. Meaning, he would of won even if he didn't make siege tanks.


Would be nice if tanks were stronger but why not have them do more damage overall instead of specifically targetting shields? Given, it'll make MMT that much more devastating against Z in TvsZ


----------



## DoomDash

Tanks are pretty bad vs Protoss in 90% of situations. I'd love to see that change. They have a small place for some timing attacks but that's about it.

I spent a week trying marine tank emp and it pretty much only works before a certain point, or close positions.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13737411*
> There will always be imbalances on certain maps, at certain points in matches, and between various unit compositions.
> 
> In fact, there is imbalance between marines/lings/zealots. One is fast, one has range, and the other makes a great tank. Between the three, they aren't "balanced", but they each bring something to the table, making them "fair". You could argue that the entire game is balanced like this.
> 
> To answer your question;
> - Snipe infestors with colossus.
> - Make very good use of FF.
> - Add zealots WITHOUT charge to deal with lings that get through.
> - Phoenix work great to snipe off overlords, and to disable infestors.
> - Make sure health/energy bars are always showing so that you can ignore low mana infestors.
> - A good trick is to put yourself in a spot where you know the opponent will attempt a 2-front attack. Bait him into it and completely wall off one side, and take out portions at a time.
> - HTs are awesome vs this army composition too.
> 
> Edit: Of course you also need to consider how the game progressed to get there.


Yea it's more of getting to late game in good shape rather than army composition problem.

I usually get early robo and push with 5 gates +1 with 2 immortals with is pretty good, especially on closer spawns and against any kind of roach play. Even if I don't end the game straight away I can kill zerg's 3rd or in the worst case take mine while pressuring.

This doesn't work well against sling/infestor though so I have to stay in my base. Soon after that there are multiple drops so still I can't move out and even if I defend perfectly it doesn't seem to put the zerg behind. Eventually after I manage to get my ball and move out the zerg is on 5+ bases and is so ahead in economy that it doesn't matter what army composition I have as he can create a perfect counter to it, and even if I survive the first battle, recreate it within a minute.


----------



## rhed5

When does mlg start? and who's playing tonight?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13739690*
> When does mlg start? and who's playing tonight?


x2.
I think idra vs MC to start though!


----------



## Razultull

Hey guys ive gone home(india) for the summer, anyone on here play on the SEA servers?


----------



## Crazykirsch

I believe it starts at 5:00 P.M. Eastern, I'm pretty sure Team Liquid has the time and all the brackets up on their site, if not check their forum, the LR thread will have everything in it.

But yes, I have a feeling MLG is going to be particularly epic, they pulled out all the stops to make up for the failure of MLG Dallas.

Edit: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-columbus-starcraft-2-pool-lineup

There are the pools, except it hasn't been updated, bomber has since been replaced oGs.MC in group C ( Rofl )


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;13739733*
> Hey guys ive gone home(india) for the summer, anyone on here play on the SEA servers?


sorry nope, don't have account and my net lags as is on the NA server, would hate to see what the SEA, EU, KR, etc.... are like XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazykirsch;13739746*
> I believe it starts at 5:00 P.M. Eastern, I'm pretty sure Team Liquid has the time and all the brackets up on their site, if not check their forum, the LR thread will have everything in it.
> 
> But yes, I have a feeling MLG is going to be particularly epic, they pulled out all the stops to make up for the failure of MLG Dallas.
> 
> Edit: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-columbus-starcraft-2-pool-lineup
> 
> There are the pools, except it hasn't been updated, bomber has since been replaced oGs.MC in group C ( Rofl )


Thanks









Edit:
MLG Open Bracket Preview: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-columbus-starcraft-2-open-bracket-preview


----------



## poroboszcz

I want Idra to beat MC.


----------



## DoomDash

Check it:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CLDUkpoG&hl=en_US&key=t90dywbczlVq_xoXKLky4lQ&toomany=true#gid=0


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13739956*
> I want Idra to beat MC.


Why is that? To deflate MC's big ego?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13739972*
> Check it:
> 
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CLDUkpoG&hl=en_US&key=t90dywbczlVq_xoXKLky4lQ&toomany=true#gid=0


Interesting, so, two games going on at once?


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13739982*
> Why is that? To deflate MC's big ego?


Yeah that guy has a huge ego. Idra's a douchebag, I hope they both lose.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13739999*
> Interesting, so, two games going on at once?


yep two streams at once. I want idra to beat MC because i wanna se idra v July lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Why is that? To deflate MC's big ego?










MC is probably a better player, but I believe current metagame favors zerg on most maps.


----------



## QuadDamage

Link to the Idra Stream plz ?


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I want Idra to beat MC.


I really like Idra's play style I think if he doesn't play to none aggressive back he can take it. We will see

can someone post links to the streams when it starts?

Thanks


----------



## DoomDash

It's all about SlayerS_MMA. Who cares about dirty Protoss and Zerg players?


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


I really like Idra's play style I think if he doesn't play to none aggressive back he can take it. We will see

can someone post links to the streams when it starts?

Thanks


http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/live/starcraft_2_red

Pregame starts soon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's all about SlayerS_MMA. Who cares about dirty Protoss and Zerg players?



Zerg all the way, Dirty Terrans crash landing in our space 

Hmm do I spend the 10 bucks for the HD streams.....

I guess not I can't sign in :/


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228320

Glad to see the Colossus showing up on 90% of the users lists for boring / badly designed units. Even toss players.

Hope Blizzard listens, would be quite sad if its unchanged in HotS.


----------



## Crazykirsch

I think Naniwa and MMA are the biggest crowd favorites going in, but there's so many top players, MC, July, and Idra in particular are downright scary when they are on top of their game. Hard to really predict it, that's part of why this is going to be an excellent weekend.

I hope in future MLG's if all goes well, we might see some MVP / MKP / Leenock / Alicia over here.


----------



## yks

I DONT KNOW WHICH ONE TO WATCH.

IDRA / MC or KIWIKAKI / MMA. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## BountyHead

Streams are live, Pregames are up! free High quality stream today.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I DONT KNOW WHICH ONE TO WATCH.

IDRA / MC or KIWIKAKI / MMA. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Why not both........


----------



## yks

That's what I'm doing, but you gotta have 1 of them on mute.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


That's what I'm doing, but you gotta have 1 of them on mute.


It is hard, Day9 and DjWheat or Tastosis its like trying to pick your favorite child lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Personally, I feel as though the only thing that needs a buff are siege tanks in TvP. They should either have an upgrade that makes them do +damage vs shields, or make it so that their +damage per upgrade scales higher. Right now tanks in TvP are useless. Out of all of the pro TvP's that I have seen where the terran went siege tanks, the terran only won because he outplayed his opponent. Meaning, he would of won even if he didn't make siege tanks.


Are you saying this because of the archon buff? Why is tank so bad in TvP? (Esp when doom said, going emp tank marine).


----------



## Ruckol1

GO iDRA!


----------



## QuadDamage

WAR IDRA!

I HOPE TO see some good rage from him if he loses


----------



## BountyHead

THE GRAKEN TOOK GAME 1 WOOOO!!!!! such an awesome game


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nerf protoss in PvZ man, zerg can't win anything.


----------



## Ruckol1

Wow that game was actually so insane


----------



## QuadDamage

That was a great game. Idra is really good


----------



## CravinR1

I'm torn
I'm glad Idra beat the Korean MC, but he's a pompous ass


----------



## poroboszcz

pew pew


----------



## QuadDamage

I think It was the zerg upgrades that won that game next one he should 6 pool lol


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I'm torn
I'm glad Idra beat the Korean MC, but he's a pompous ass


MC even more so.... Im surprised between MC and IrdA's ego that anyone else could fit in the building.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wow.. MC's defense there was just sick.


----------



## CravinR1

I like the Red cast better. They're showing players cams and names on top, blue cast was late with the names/colors and still not showing the cams


----------



## BigFan

Crazy 2nd game, had the stream stopped for a while but watched most. Those infestors are such annoying pests!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That was what I was talking about; Roach infestor vs protoss very hard to beat on close positions, like on two player maps like that.


----------



## BountyHead

OMG, I can't take this excitement lol, Wow thats insane.

Can't believe IdrA took that 2-0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


That was what I was talking about; Roach infestor vs protoss very hard to beat on close positions, like on two player maps like that.


That only worked because of the gateway heavy army, But man I love it when Idra uses infestors he doesnt use them enough.

Best Quote ever " Roach Immortal is really good against Stalker"


----------



## yks

This is like a starcraft orgy.


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

I'm loving this MLG with the two streams. I have two monitors so I can have red on one screen and blue on the other







. Surprisingly both flash and video drivers seemed ok with two full screen streams lol.

Matt


----------



## CravinR1

I need to put one on my 37" HDTV and one on my 22" LCD

How do you full screen to one monitor?


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

I open two broswers, put one browser with one stream in one monitor and the other browser with the other stream in your second monitor, press the full screen buttons







. Thats how it works for me. Flash only recently allowed you to have a video full screen and click elsewhere without it minimizing.

Hope this helps,
Matt


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[KOD[Redfox;13742216*
> I'm loving this MLG with the two streams. I have two monitors so I can have red on one screen and blue on the other
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Surprisingly both flash and video drivers seemed ok with two full screen streams lol.
> 
> Matt


I tried that with firefox, gave me an error. Trying in IE now, stream seems to be loading but nothing on screen yet. Going to have to switch between the two to watch both matches XD
Wondering what to focus on though. TLO vs. Losira or Nani vs. Moon









Edit: Decided to go for the TLO one, who doesn't like a revenge match


----------



## [KOD[Redfox

I havent had both streams full screen for longer than say a minute, I usually pick which one I want to focus on then have it in my main 24" monitor.

I have the same problem, I can't decide between TLO vs Losira or Moon vs the other guy. probably go with TLO.

Matt


----------



## CravinR1

I'd go with TLO but am on the go (iPhone)


----------



## ThumperSD

I missed MC vs Idra nooooo


----------



## BigFan

Stream for the TLO matches was fuzzy so watched the moon one







Crazy long game on Plateau, nani had 6 bases by the end compared to 4 for moon XD


----------



## BountyHead

OMG so many Banelings poor TLO


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;13742861*
> OMG so many Banelings poor TLO


Who took it?

Is it just me or do both red and blue streams showcase the same match atm? Like, if you open both, you see them talking about MC against Ret and not Select against Idra, etc....


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


OMG, I can't take this excitement lol, Wow thats insane.

Can't believe IdrA took that 2-0

That only worked because of the gateway heavy army, But man I love it when Idra uses infestors he doesnt use them enough.

Best Quote ever " Roach Immortal is really good against Stalker"


Well you can say about even matchups all day. If you tech too quick you die, if you tech to slow you die. With infestors on two bases it's hard to attack into zerg.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Who took it?

Is it just me or do both red and blue streams showcase the same match atm? Like, if you open both, you see them talking about MC against Ret and not Select against Idra, etc....










Losira took it, Both streams were the same refresh and you will see tastetosis talking about Select v IdrA, They were having some issue with getting ret and MC so they were going to just cast one game but everything ironed out so the streams are different again.

Idra is playing amazing today.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

MC vs Ret on met, I learned my pvz build from that day9 ep.


----------



## BountyHead

Idra sweeps SeleCT! omg He is on fire!!!


----------



## BigFan

^^Crazy matchup. BL+infestor is crazy to go against, mass ghosts seems to be the best combo according to tasteosis and with the lower gas, a bit more viable. Makes me wonder why not many Ts go for ghosts, if you get a single emp on your target(s), I think they would've paid for themselves!


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^Crazy matchup. BL+infestor is crazy to go against, mass ghosts seems to be the best combo according to tasteosis and with the lower gas, a bit more viable. Makes me wonder why not many Ts go for ghosts, if you get a single emp on your target(s), I think they would've paid for themselves!










It just hasn't been explored or practiced as much, IdrA only very recently has been using mass infestor.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

need lan support...


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13743783*
> need lan support...


A million times yes. Online authentication with lan support Blizzard why can you not do that.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13743783*
> need lan support...


hehe, true, true


----------



## godofdeath

everytime i do a new install of this game on a different computer its a pain to download 50 billion patches, i wish they were all consolidated or something


----------



## DoomDash

Damn, just got home... missed some good matches.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13744044*
> Damn, just got home... missed some good matches.


What? You serious? MC vs. Idra was quite interesting, so was InControl vs. Losira


----------



## DoomDash

I caught the end of the Alter InControl Losira game.


----------



## ntherblast

Anyone do random melee matchs i keep getting partnered with morons im in plat not trying to brag. But I get slightly pissed off when my allies do stuff like mass collosus keep making dark templars. Just last game I had an ally that had like 8 ghosts 4 marauders and like 6 marines and i told him why do u need so many ghosts hes like ghosts own protoss and i was like yes they do but you dont need that many ghosts. Another game my ally was a toss and he decided to build an expansion before anything else of course i pointed out that is not smart against zerg and then he got rolled and told me why didn't i help him.. Maybe like 1 out of 80 games i've got a partner that outperformed me.


----------



## BountyHead

love the tlo pic


----------



## BigFan

^^Solution is, don't play team games








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13744144*
> I caught the end of the Alter InControl Losira game.


I actually missed it XD Given how it was going though, I can probably guess the winner. Such horrible scouting mistakes by someone


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13744210*
> Anyone do random melee matchs i keep getting partnered with morons im in plat not trying to brag. But I get slightly pissed off when my allies do stuff like mass collosus keep making dark templars. Just last game I had an ally that had like 8 ghosts 4 marauders and like 6 marines and i told him why do u need so many ghosts hes like ghosts own protoss and i was like yes they do but you dont need that many ghosts. Another game my ally was a toss and he decided to build an expansion before anything else of course i pointed out that is not smart against zerg and then he got rolled and told me why didn't i help him.. Maybe like 1 out of 80 games i've got a partner that outperformed me.


im on the same boat as you. What i feel like is you have a high mmr in your league so you get paired with lower mmr people to either make it "even match" or "slightly favored" vs others. Nothing you can do... just keep on playing Or start losing tons of games to lower your mmr if you cant handle losing


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.awakeningofchaos.com/mlgdouble.htm


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomdash;13744756*
> http://www.awakeningofchaos.com/mlgdouble.htm


god make it stop...


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lazi punk;13744391*
> im on the same boat as you. What i feel like is you have a high mmr in your league so you get paired with lower mmr people to either make it "even match" or "slightly favored" vs others. Nothing you can do... just keep on playing Or start losing tons of games to lower your mmr if you cant handle losing


i win a lot just won 11 in a row was hoping for a promotion just that the ones i seem to lose is when i get allies that are really bad:S


----------



## Sainesk

I don't really like to play P but wow speedlot + archon is so much fun...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah before they were easy to handle with FF, now they're a bit tough to kill.

I like how frequently I kill a Z with a timing attack, or T with better upgraded zealot/templar/dt army, my race gets slammed for being ^%(*&*&^(-ing OP. I pylon blocked this zerg's ramp. He proceeds to swear at me for the entire game and then BM after the game.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13747071*
> Yeah before they were easy to handle with FF, now they're a bit tough to kill.
> 
> I like how frequently I kill a Z with a timing attack, or T with better upgraded zealot/templar/dt army, my race gets slammed for being ^%(*&*&^(-ing OP. I pylon blocked this zerg's ramp. He proceeds to swear at me for the entire game and then BM after the game.


I think it's mostly people becoming frustrated. Sometimes the smallest imbalance is seen as a game breaking OP unit/tactic.

I know when I get frustrated at this game I see everything as OP.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13744756*
> http://www.awakeningofchaos.com/mlgdouble.htm


I love you!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

In PvT, if Terran goes tech lab first for his first rax for mmm, can Protoss afford to not get out a sentry for my third unit or any sentries until expansion is down (in a normal 3 rax vs 3 gate expo macro rate of production)?


----------



## CravinR1

Without sentries marine and marauder pushes are devastating. For me at least


----------



## ThumperSD

MLG stream quality is uber crap. Even worse, neither stream is loading for me right now.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

You answered a different question. My question specifically deals with:

No sentries off one gate one gas
Nexus at natural with three gates down
While chrono-ing probe, +1 armor, getting my sentries off three or four gas

Can I get out enough zealots and stalkers off one base and not die, then get sentries during expo nexus is up vs a two rax fe into three rax engie bay MM army without emp.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


MLG stream quality is uber crap. Even worse, neither stream is loading for me right now.


Same







and the two matches going on right now are so intense...


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


In PvT, if Terran goes tech lab first for his first rax for mmm, can Protoss afford to not get out a sentry for my third unit or any sentries until expansion is down (in a normal 3 rax vs 3 gate expo macro rate of production)?


Tough to say but as my own preference, I wouldnt make a sentry. Id skip the 2nd gas and get my expo up a little sooner with more zealots/stalkers.

On a map with a wide ramp, I definitely wouldnt make one early


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


MLG stream quality is uber crap. Even worse, neither stream is loading for me right now.


Same here and it's been like that for the most of the day. I thought it's EU problem only.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


You answered a different question. My question specifically deals with:

No sentries off one gate one gas
Nexus at natural with three gates down
While chrono-ing probe, +1 armor, getting my sentries off three or four gas

Can I get out enough zealots and stalkers off one base and not die, then get sentries during expo nexus is up vs a two rax fe into three rax engie bay MM army without emp.


Because your question isn't quite clear. Depends on a map and what you actually want to do. You can survive without sentries until stim, but you will get expo faster if you make sentries. You can 1 gate expo without any sentries, but if you 3 gate pressure you should have at least one for GS, possibly more for FFs. Another reason to get sentries early is to let them accumulate energy.


----------



## yks

fyi it's free HQ for the entire event. so make sure you just switch.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I missed MC vs Thor, I see slush vs moon next. But what games are supposed to be up right now? The streams are screwed, I have no idea what's going on.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Did that just happen?!!?!?? Moon vs Slush


----------



## poroboszcz

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/video/mlg-video/976578511001-hail-to-the-king

Oh lol.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13753969*
> http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/video/mlg-video/976578511001-hail-to-the-king
> 
> Oh lol.


hahahahaha idra flicks him off


----------



## CravinR1

I didn't see Idra throwing the bird? Where is it


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13754097*
> I didn't see Idra throwing the bird? Where is it


before mc goes back on stage.
idra is sitting on the floor


----------



## DoomDash

Just got home from the drag strip... missed 99% of MLG matches so far, but the good news is tomorrow I am free.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;13752844*
> MLG stream quality is uber crap. Even worse, neither stream is loading for me right now.


It's actually not bad on high








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;13754097*
> I didn't see Idra throwing the bird? Where is it


Bird? What bird? I though Idra gave him the finger


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13754757*
> It's actually not bad on high
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bird? What bird? I though Idra gave him the finger


8-p


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13754356*
> Just got home from the drag strip... missed 99% of MLG matches so far, but the good news is tomorrow I am free.


You went to the Grand Nationals? Cool stuff man eh? I've always loved the drag races.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;13755214*
> 8-p


XD

After watching it again, I saw the throat-slash and flip XD
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=229931&currentpage=1


----------



## ntherblast

quick question is game time 1:1 to real life time and if not what is the ratio thx.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

On fastest it's not.

Is there a place to rewatch thorzane vs MC?

Everyone stand back, I'm attempting to play SC2 on a hh2kb!










I may not survive the incursions.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13756699*
> quick question is game time 1:1 to real life time and if not what is the ratio thx.


It's something like 1.4:1 on faster which is what ladder games are played at. (Game seconds are faster)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13756790*
> On fastest it's not.
> 
> Is there a place to rewatch thorzane vs MC?
> 
> Everyone stand back, I'm attempting to play SC2 on a hh2kb!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may not survive the incursions.


hmm, youtube?







Not sure tbh, but, I would check there. I didn't that game either, sounded really interesting


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


You went to the Grand Nationals? Cool stuff man eh? I've always loved the drag races.


I went here.
http://www.byrondragway.com/


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13759811*
> hmm, youtube?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure tbh, but, I would check there. I didn't that game either, sounded really interesting


You can view all the replays here: http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-columbus-starcraft2-champ.html


----------



## ThumperSD

Oh yea forgot to add spoilers

Did sheth think that was an infested cc?

And *** idra? losing on purpose? hahah


----------



## DoomDash

LOL idra vs MMA

MMA accidentally killed his own CC with tanks

idra was winning.... the quit?


----------



## Ruckol1

*** was that???


----------



## ThumperSD

Pretty sure that was just for attention


----------



## Alex132

link?


----------



## DoomDash

mlgpro.com


----------



## poroboszcz

I haven't managed to watch a single game in last 2 hours. **** this ****.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I haven't managed to watch a single game in last 2 hours. **** this ****.


A sign you should be watching MLG.


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm trying. I've seen a lot of commercials, buffering screen, "please disable adblock or check your internet connection" message and the same part of MMA vs Idra at least 5 times... Now straight after that I see MMA interview and now nothing again.


----------



## DoomDash

It's been working flawless for me and most in NA, but I hear about problems in Europe.


----------



## DoomDash

Just as I posted that Stream is down, DOH.
EDIT
It's Back.


----------



## DoomDash

For those who missed idra vs mma:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY&[/ame]

Didn't say this but he should have:

MMA: U realise

MMA: Most of my﻿ army

EGIdrA: **** off

MMA: Killed my orbital

MMA: LOL

MMA: just saying

MMA: u werent loss


----------



## ThumperSD

Too bad they arent showing MC vs Thorzain. I click on the blue stream and it gives me the red, and vice versa yesterday. I hate the MLG stream.


----------



## mfb412

WHAT THE HELL?
gotdamnit greg.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Too bad they arent showing MC vs Thorzain. I click on the blue stream and it gives me the red, and vice versa yesterday. I hate the MLG stream.


No problems besides the one here.


----------



## yks

i never have MLG problems even WITH an adblocker.


----------



## poroboszcz

So is there still a chance of Idra vs MC rematch?


----------



## DoomDash

Yep. Bracket:


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep. Bracket:











I would love to see idra make a come back and take this


----------



## DoomDash

I could be wrong though because I think right now Slush is playing Idra. I just don't get the brackets I guess.

I think the bracket I post is wrong. Better on MLG's site.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


So is there still a chance of Idra vs MC rematch?


Yes, if MC beats Moon, then nani and idra works his way through slush


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's hard to know who to watch atm.


----------



## Ruckol1

MC wins


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


It's hard to know who to watch atm.


No it's not.

http://warpprism.com/mlg


----------



## QuadDamage

Where can you get a updated braket

MC won
Idra Won just now


----------



## DoomDash

http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011...t2-champ.html#

Here. Losers bracket.


----------



## ntherblast

why is it that matchs aren't being shown in match history i just won 2 games against favored opponents and i waited an hour for them to show in match history and still nothing?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Dance dance revolution.


----------



## ThumperSD

MC vs Nani I love seeing some humor and attitude in SC2 haha

Protoss bm


----------



## ThumperSD

MC vs Idra rm wooot


----------



## DoomDash

Needs to win 4 games vs 2.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## DoomDash

idra is giving games away for free all day.


----------



## QuadDamage

What is Idra THinking!


----------



## KittensMewMew

What is he doing? This is awful. I can't even watch this, it's like he doesn't even care.


----------



## Ruckol1

Idra not playing very smart at all.. you think he would spend the 125 min to have a evo chamber, especially with 500 in the bank


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Idra not playing very smart at all.. you think he would spend the 125 min to have a evo chamber, especially with 500 in the bank


No, apparently he has to win in 6 minutes or he just won't play.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It'd be funny if MC just straight up delayed four gates on test.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Desperation time.


----------



## Ruckol1

rofl look at what idra had compared to mc, and still lost. corruption on everything, like 7 ******* bases, 3-3 coming, fungal growth, what more can z to against p


----------



## DoomDash

I really didn't like how idra played that after mid-game.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


rofl look at what idra had compared to mc, and still lost. corruption on everything, like 7 ******* bases, 3-3 coming, fungal growth, what more can z to against p


Yea I cant believe stalkers > hydras in that game. He should have made some charge zealots imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


You can view all the replays here: http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011...ft2-champ.html


Thanks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'm trying. I've seen a lot of commercials, buffering screen, "please disable adblock or check your internet connection" message and the same part of MMA vs Idra at least 5 times... Now straight after that I see MMA interview and now nothing again.


I feel your pain, getting lots of commericals and adblock :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


why is it that matchs aren't being shown in match history i just won 2 games against favored opponents and i waited an hour for them to show in match history and still nothing?


I think it's just lag or a bug but they come up later on so don't worry









Sad news: My GTX570 bit the dust, getting artifacts in SCII now. It's random and doesn't affect the game, only cut scenes and same with when you are within the ship :/ Guess it's rma.

Awesome game on Testbug.
Thought Idra had it early on getting up on so many bases in comparison and the constant trade and replenish with like 30 hydras at a time XD Those dts were such good timing by MC though, snipe drones at his gold at his 4th, 3rd and the blink micro was great against the hydras. I do wonder though if engaging at that choke was a good idea considering the hydras had a good concave on the stalkers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thanks

I feel your pain, getting lots of commericals and adblock :/

I think it's just lag or a bug but they come up later on so don't worry









Sad news: My GTX570 bit the dust, getting artifacts in SCII now. It's random and doesn't affect the game, only cut scenes and same with when you are within the ship :/ Guess it's rma.

Awesome game on Testbug.
Thought Idra had it early on getting up on so many bases in comparison and the constant trade and replenish with like 30 hydras at a time XD Those dts were such good timing by MC though, snipe drones at his gold at his 4th, 3rd and the blink micro was great against the hydras. I do wonder though if engaging at that choke was a good idea considering the hydras had a good concave on the stalkers.


What NVIDIA drivers are you using? I recently had problems with 275 beta drivers and I had to run driversweeper / cccleaner in safe mode, and load up the last release drivers. I lost one ladder game due to this, and it also affected Hunted Demon Forge. You should try this before RMA because it fixed my problems.

Zergs need to start maxing and doing the 30-40 spine crawler cancel. I looked and idra had plenty of opportunity to this and crush him with a 240/200 army.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


MC vs Idra rm wooot


LOL that was an awesome series.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


rofl look at what idra had compared to mc, and still lost. corruption on everything, like 7 ******* bases, 3-3 coming, fungal growth, what more can z to against p


His lack of detection was his undoing(as in one spore but no other units(like a hydra or two) incase of dts and only one overseer when you see dts? Since he lost a lot of drones, he couldn't keep on making units. That and MC was microing well(did you see how many hydras those phoenixes took out?). Idra was the better player at the start, but, MC was much better once he got his first colossi









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I really didn't like how idra played that after mid-game.


hmm, he was great at the start and at one point, I thought his constant rally of roaches+hydras was going to overwhelm MC as that first colossi was coming out, but, MC held on and kept on scouting, harassing, etc...


----------



## KittensMewMew

Well that was a great example of hubris.

Edit: I might even edit the wikipedia page to include that series as an example. Actually, I'll just include all of idra's losing series against a protoss.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What NVIDIA drivers are you using? I recently had problems with 275 beta drivers and I had to run driversweeper / cccleaner in safe mode, and load up the last release drivers. I lost one ladder game due to this, and it also affected Hunted Demon Forge. You should try this before RMA because it fixed my problems.

Zergs need to start maxing and doing the 30-40 spine crawler cancel. I looked and idra had plenty of opportunity to this and crush him with a 240/200 army.


Still on 263.09 drivers from back in Jan. Thing is, it was fine originally but it just randomly started. I ran kombuster and it had some lines, so, I dunno. I took that as a possible memory issue due to experience when I was a member on the Nvidia forums. I'll try different drivers before RMAing since I have the time, maybe reseat it and give it some quick cleaning to hopefully fix the issue









MMA vs. Losira atm on red stream!

Edit: umm, anyone else see that? XD Why not seal off with the cc at the start!


----------



## DoomDash

Lol why don't you update first. Or clear drivers like I did and reinstall. RMA last ditch effort.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lol why don't you update first. Or clear drivers like I did and reinstall. RMA last ditch effort.


lol, thing is, nothing has changed with this comp. Nothing recently installed, changed, etc... Just turn on, some SCII, sleep mode, rinse and repeat, so, I don't see why the drivers would cause an issue now and not back when I first installed then or after the last patch. I just have a bad feeling its a memory issue just due to its nature but I'll try other drivers and cleaning/reseating incase


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, thing is, nothing has changed with this comp. Nothing recently installed, changed, etc... Just turn on, some SCII, sleep mode, rinse and repeat, so, I don't see why the drivers would cause an issue now and not back when I first installed then or after the last patch. I just have a bad feeling its a memory issue just due to its nature but I'll try other drivers and cleaning/reseating incase










That's what happened to me though







. Didn't change a thing and it got bad randomly.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's what happened to me though







. Didn't change a thing and it got bad randomly.


oh, ok. I've had this card act up once in the past where I had to reseat because it lost its signal, wonder if something similar is happening now









Sweet game 2, unexpected result









Edit: Final game between them!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


rofl look at what idra had compared to mc, and still lost. corruption on everything, like 7 ******* bases, 3-3 coming, fungal growth, what more can z to against p


This:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I really didn't like how idra played that after mid-game.


Idra made some crucial mistakes, some call indecisiveness. At the final engagement he just didn't have the patience to wait. He was powering up with another base, hive, upgrades and more. Before the DT den went down I was like, Idra is good enough to know that he has seen blink stalkers, DT's may be coming. I thought he would follow up with spines (with detectors already built). Plus why go full hydra army, he could've done so much more.

There were few other games were if Idra just kept throwing units at MC, he would've won.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Idra could have won that pretty easy just playing it better.

Anyway, HOLY CRAP MMA IS good.


----------



## BigFan

WOW! That last game is exactly how Terran should be played against Z! I really recommend Terran players to watch that one









^^He's good but he really needs to practice raising his supply depots in time XD


----------



## yellowtoblerone

No he isn't. That was boxer playing. That couldn't have been MMA.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


No he isn't. That was boxer playing. That couldn't have been MMA.


Boxer is even more abusive... to the point where its silly sometimes..but still my fav







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yup. How many times have we seen boxer snipe tech buildings.

I still don't understand why MLG didn't put a supply depot at the three pylon position on tal darim. Even so Idra knew he should've patrolled a drone there, but was just too stubborn to do so.


----------



## BigFan

NERF bane drops


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's what I've been thinking in PvZ matchups lately. If I go traditional deathball, forcing hydras by going air first on two baes, baneling drops will kill it pretty quickly. All the while I would get out based and resourced.

If I go the six gate pressure into three base route then change tech, a well executed two/three base roach/ling all in can kill it pretty quickly dependent on early pressure, spines/infestors.

The only success I've been having against zerg these days is going five gate all in on one base, or if playing a macro game vs roach/infest/bl, or icefish build, is going ht/mamaship.

How can MC be making such an amateur mistake.


----------



## ntherblast

How is a diamond+platnium vs 2 plats who are friends an even match? both of these players also had over 2k matchs played


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13764031*
> How is a diamond+platnium vs 2 plats who are friends an even match? both of these players also had over 2k matchs played


Because it's random against organized team.

WOW, never thought I'll see this epic of a match. Sooooo close!







Really hope MC takes it, would like to see a MC vs. MMA final!


----------



## yks

I just want MMA to win so he gets promoted into Code S

edit: nvm he gets [email protected]~
edit2: nvm he doesn't =[


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13764148*
> I just want MMA to win so he gets promoted into Code S
> 
> *edit: nvm he gets [email protected]~
> edit2: nvm he doesn't =[*


rofl, need to win final to get code S!

Edit: Nice usage of nydus!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13764247*
> rofl, need to win final to get code S!


no. no code s for columbus =[


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13764346*
> no. no code s for columbus =[


huh? They just said that if you win MLG, you get automatic code S! It was either day9 or DJWheat who said it


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Man, I got owned two games in a row due to very sloppy playing. I'm toss, and the first time I lost to a banshee rush (which I stopped quickly) but then he went all marines and stimmed into my base before I could get colossi. Should have attacked sooner, but failed.

And the second game I lost to a zealot rush, which I was holding of really well, but eventually he had like 50+ zlots, and I was only able to keep a few sentries+stalkers and I ran out of energy and he did too much dmg.

I got frustrated, so I'm taking another break to calm down lol.


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13764389*
> Man, I got owned two games in a row due to very sloppy playing. I'm toss, and the first time I lost to a banshee rush (which I stopped quickly) but then he went all marines and stimmed into my base before I could get colossi. Should have attacked sooner, but failed.
> 
> And the second game I lost to a zealot rush, which I was holding of really well, but eventually he had like 50+ zlots, and I was only able to keep a few sentries+stalkers and I ran out of energy and he did too much dmg.
> 
> I got frustrated, so I'm taking another break to calm down lol.


Sloppy play kills me. Oddly enough, playing whilst listening to Agent Steel, Helloween, Insomnium and the sorts, my playing seems to dramatically improve


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13764386*
> huh? They just said that if you win MLG, you get automatic code S! It was either day9 or DJWheat who said it


http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program


At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition *after MLG Columbus*, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S placement starts after Columbus, unless there was a change to the press release.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

OH WOW mma is sooo good...

I think Losira needs to icefish instead. Ultra/bl, infestor and tons of nydus.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13764674*
> OH WOW mma is sooo good...
> 
> I think Losira needs to icefish instead. Ultra/bl, infestor and tons of nydus.


I dunno, given it worked on MC so maybe it'll work on MMA but taking out that pool was the key there!

^^I dunno, all I know is that it was mentioned that who wins get code S, but, it could've been a mistake by day9/DJWheat.


----------



## BigFan

It's OVER!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



MMA takes it, 2 games in a row. Wins on meta against ling, bling, muta. The harass is really what did it!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeahhhhh my pick won it







.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Losira needs to get muta's faster vs this style, but even with Muta's out MMA did insane.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13764913*
> Yeahhhhh my pick won it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Losira needs to get muta's faster vs this style, but even with Muta's out MMA did insane.


Agree, really slow at doing that, should speed it up making drops more risky,


----------



## ntherblast

is it possible to check someones profile who is in your current game?


----------



## Twistacles

MLG Colombus was an amazing event, from an online-spectator POV. Many great, great series. SJOW, Sheth and Idra had great showings. Same for the koreans of course =P

Amazing games amazing casting. Im pretty damn happy


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13767157*
> MLG Colombus was an amazing event, from an online-spectator POV. Many great, great series. SJOW, Sheth and Idra had great showings. Same for the koreans of course =P
> 
> Amazing games amazing casting. Im pretty damn happy


Not to be the negative one, but I had a few complaints.

1. The stream got laggy during all 3 days. The worst was during the final match it started lagging. Normally I just switch to low quality for a while and it's fine, but it wasn't, it froze instead. So I watched 2 sets of commercials and missed a game. O, and those commercials conveniently had ZERO lag issues. What MLG calls HD I call standard def. Their low quality stream is almost unwatchable. They really didn't convince me to purchase a future ticket. (BTW, my internet is decent, 22mbps down, 4 up)

2. The site is unorganized. I heard talk of VOD's but all I see is replays?

3. There could have been more games casted with 2 streams going.

4. The commercials were completely wayyy too loud. Not to mention that you cannot mute them. Completely bs.

On the positive, the games I did get to watch were really good aside from Zerg crushing Protoss's. Anyone else catch Day9 say on stream saying that he thinks Zerg is OP? lol.


----------



## BigFan

I just had to rofl watching this: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
Love the crowds reaction


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13767647*
> I just had to rofl watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY&feature=player_embedded
> Love the crowds reaction


Isn't that the guy who told another player to apologize for playing as Terran?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;13767251*
> Not to be the negative one, but I had a few complaints.
> 
> 4. The commercials were completely wayyy too loud. Not to mention that you cannot mute them. Completely bs.
> 
> On the positive, the games I did get to watch were really good aside from Zerg crushing Protoss's. Anyone else catch Day9 say on stream saying that he thinks Zerg is OP? lol.


You can mute the commercials by muting the stream first.

Yes, I share that view. I posted a replay of select vs a zerg a while ago and asked how can terran stop such unit combinations like infestor/bl. In my say so TvZ is so Z favoured if both are playing straight up.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13767647*
> I just had to rofl watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY&feature=player_embedded
> Love the crowds reaction


I watched that live, my reaction was pretty much the same. Turning point of Columbus for Idra imo.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule;13767672*
> Isn't that the guy who told another player to apologize for playing as Terran?


Yes, it was against Silver on Lost Temple








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;13767874*
> I watched that live, my reaction was pretty much the same. Turning point of Columbus for Idra imo.


I actually missed it, same with the first 3 games against MC but saw his last game and was just surprised there. IMO he played poorly after taking out MC 2-0 in his first set. I'm still a bit shocked at what MMA did to his OC. I mean was it really that hard to select all tanks and click stop!


----------



## BigFan

double post


----------



## Dr216

Idra realy needs to get himself into a mindset whereby he keeps fighting even when he thinks he has lost, He is very good at predicting how a game will turn out but he is not infallable and the sooner he realises that the better. Tbh that goes for allot of players imo.

How many times do you see a player "loose" the game and then despite being massively behind manage through some intense and or scrappy play win the game? not always for sure but certainly often enough that it shocks me to see such a talanted player just GG out whenever things seem a little tough. Realy dont think his mind is in the right place.


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13768263*
> Idra realy needs to get himself into a mindset whereby he keeps fighting even when he thinks he has lost, He is very good at predicting how a game will turn out but he is not infallable and the sooner he realises that the better. Tbh that goes for allot of players imo.
> 
> How many times do you see a player "loose" the game and then despite being massively behind manage through some intense and or scrappy play win the game? not always for sure but certainly often enough that it shocks me to see such a talanted player just GG out whenever things seem a little tough. Realy dont think his mind is in the right place.


30 minute concede timer? I think there should be one


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eskanasi;13768494*
> 30 minute concede timer? I think there should be one


hmm that might be a little draconian, and lets face it people leaving too early is all part of the drama. ^^


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Why didn't Idra do this to MC:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7ljhELuYU[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230665

Good at SC = can get the girls.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTDh8jK6jwk&[/ame]


----------



## Lazorbeam

So MLG Columbus is the first event that I followed from start to finish. I'm also told this was one of the best (if not _the_ best) event in sc2 so far.

I was somewhat disappointed with protoss performance, most of them being eliminated in the lower brackets.

MMA definitely deserved it, that guy is insanely good. Kept his cool the entire time and played solid throughout (short of the orbital kill, lol). Speaking of which, how the **** did he manage that? You only need to right click rocks to kill them, I guess he A-clicks them and targeted the orbital instead?

Idra is still an idiot, only reason he has so many fans is that he's really skilled. So he's a skilled idiot. I think there will come a time where he'll go into a slump and lose tons of fans. At that point he'll just be an idiot. MC is just as bad but can perform much better under stress.

Overall this is something I would pay for. Thoughts?


----------



## poroboszcz

MC and Idra have personalities unlike some of the other players. For the sake of entertainment I would like to see more players like them.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss is so predictable and has no huge APM sink unit. This is more reason for the Reaver. Look at most of those matches and all of the Protoss players did nothing actually creative. Protoss just encourages big balls.. just a terrible race design. HotS will fix it is my guess.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Protoss is so predictable and has no huge APM sink unit. This is more reason for the Reaver. Look at most of those matches and all of the Protoss players did nothing actually creative. *Protoss just encourages big balls..* just a terrible race design. HotS will fix it is my guess.


Hahaha


----------



## rhed5

I really enjoyed the MC-Idra series. It was just absolutely hilarious. Loved it when MC asked Idra if he was "angry". Completely humiliated. I really have to ask what Idra was thinking those games. Not playing to his strengths except for game 6. Two all-ins, hatch first, seemed to be extremetly flustered. Game 3 I understand, as he was already ahead and could afford to play risk, and potentially could've really caught MC offguard, but MC's crisis management is second to none. I was esp impressed by MC vs Losira in Meta. Te following games, you could see idra just mentally fall apart. So close, yet so far.

MMA vs Losira on meta and temple were also very entertaining. I would've punched mma in the face if he was playing right next to me. Just from watching the game let alone playing, while rooting for zerg, the dropship play was so infuriating. I could understand Lorisa's decision to stupidly make so many banes and go attack, as the frustration from all those multi location harass was just building and building till he imploded.

Overall just fantastic level of play shown by these guys that foreigners just can't play at, yet. Esp in TvZ where micro/apm/multitasking rules supreme. Another tournament after IEM where koreans take 1,2 and 3, with only koreans knocking out other koreans.

The good thing is all the replays are out, and we get a chance to analyse them in depth. This week, I'm going to try to watch a lot of the replays from the Korean's and steal their build's and styles.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13770326*
> MC and Idra have personalities unlike some of the other players. For the sake of entertainment I would like to see more players like them.


Can't argue that haha. I enjoyed the drama as well. It's interesting to see who will perform better under such conditions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13770347*
> Protoss is so predictable and has no huge APM sink unit. This is more reason for the Reaver. Look at most of those matches and all of the Protoss players did nothing actually creative. Protoss just encourages big balls.. just a terrible race design. HotS will fix it is my guess.


I think blizzard ****ed up with unit design, not just with colossi. The interaction with gateway units and mm/speedlings + roach early to mid-game is just messed up. It promotes extremely defensive play by protoss, short of any dumb canon rush. Most games are the same. Protoss turtles up, techs to colossus and THEN can compete food for food. There's no reason for protoss to go aggressive early on, as this means dealing with superior firepower.

I also think that the marauder is a poorly designed unit. Essentially circumvents any early pressure from toss AND counters both zealot/stalker.

Edit: As as addendum I'd like to say that I do have big balls.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Can't argue that haha. I enjoyed the drama as well. It's interesting to see who will perform better under such conditions.

I think blizzard ****ed up with unit design, not just with colossi. The interaction with gateway units and mm/speedlings + roach early to mid-game is just messed up. It promotes extremely defensive play by protoss, short of any dumb canon rush. Most games are the same. Protoss turtles up, techs to colossus and THEN can compete food for food. There's no reason for protoss to go aggressive early on, as this means dealing with superior firepower.

I also think that the marauder is a poorly designed unit. Essentially circumvents any early pressure from toss AND counters both zealot/stalker.

Edit: As as addendum I'd like to say that I do have big balls.


Marauders are pretty dumb but I don't really feel any huge favoritism in TvP early like I used to with all these changes. Defensively they do grant Terran some nice early expansions especially on big maps.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I really enjoyed the MC-Idra series. It was just absolutely hilarious. Loved it when MC asked Idra if he was "angry". Completely humiliated. I really have to ask what Idra was thinking those games. Not playing to his strengths except for game 6. Two all-ins, hatch first, seemed to be extremetly flustered. Game 3 I understand, as he was already ahead and could afford to play risk, and potentially could've really caught MC offguard, but MC's crisis management is second to none. I was esp impressed by MC vs Losira in Meta. Te following games, you could see idra just mentally fall apart. So close, yet so far.

MMA vs Losira on meta and temple were also very entertaining. I would've punched mma in the face if he was playing right next to me. Just from watching the game let alone playing, while rooting for zerg, the dropship play was so infuriating. I could understand Lorisa's decision to stupidly make so many banes and go attack, as the frustration from all those multi location harass was just building and building till he imploded.

Overall just fantastic level of play shown by these guys that foreigners just can't play at, yet. Esp in TvZ where micro/apm/multitasking rules supreme. Another tournament after IEM where koreans take 1,2 and 3, with only koreans knocking out other koreans.

The good thing is all the replays are out, and we get a chance to analyse them in depth. This week, I'm going to try to watch a lot of the replays from the Korean's and steal their build's and styles.


How could you cheer for a Zerg? Boo.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Hahaha


What?


----------



## Ruckol1

Interview with Greg .. girlfriend isn't bad looking, and from Toronto! Represent!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=230665


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Idra realy needs to get himself into a mindset whereby he keeps fighting even when he thinks he has lost, *He is very good at predicting how a game will turn out* but he is not infallable and the sooner he realises that the better. Tbh that goes for allot of players imo.

How many times do you see a player "loose" the game and then despite being massively behind manage through some intense and or scrappy play win the game? not always for sure but certainly often enough that it shocks me to see such a talanted player just GG out whenever things seem a little tough. Realy dont think his mind is in the right place.


Considering he has GG'd out of games where he would've won shows otherwise. He has to fix this mindset that if he's at a disadvantage, he can't win and that his opponents are perfect which they aren't like MMA demonstrated by destroying his OC









Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


MC and Idra have personalities unlike some of the other players. For the sake of entertainment I would like to see more players like them.


Agree, I hope that there are more players with similar personalities









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


I really enjoyed the MC-Idra series. It was just absolutely hilarious. Loved it when MC asked Idra if he was "angry". Completely humiliated. I really have to ask what Idra was thinking those games. Not playing to his strengths except for game 6. Two all-ins, hatch first, seemed to be extremetly flustered. Game 3 I understand, as he was already ahead and could afford to play risk, and potentially could've really caught MC offguard, but MC's crisis management is second to none. I was esp impressed by MC vs Losira in Meta. Te following games, you could see idra just mentally fall apart. So close, yet so far.

MMA vs Losira on meta and temple were also very entertaining. *I would've punched mma in the face if he was playing right next to me. Just from watching the game let alone playing, while rooting for zerg, the dropship play was so infuriating. *I could understand Lorisa's decision to stupidly make so many banes and go attack, as the frustration from all those multi location harass was just building and building till he imploded.

Overall just fantastic level of play shown by these guys that foreigners just can't play at, yet. Esp in TvZ where micro/apm/multitasking rules supreme. Another tournament after IEM where koreans take 1,2 and 3, with only koreans knocking out other koreans.

The good thing is all the replays are out, and we get a chance to analyse them in depth. This week, I'm going to try to watch a lot of the replays from the Korean's and steal their build's and styles.










MMA's dropship harass was fantastic, but, it didn't do as much damage as it could've, so, while it was annoying, it didn't put Losira back. That and he eventually went mutas so he could've went around, harassed him taking out dropships while building a 200/200 army and then just attacking. 
If anything, I would say he was dominating MMA(aside from drops) especially considering the early reaper harass and how he got him to give up his exp. How he lost that match is still beyond me. At least it isn't as bad as Idra vs. MC game 4 XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Protoss is so predictable and has no huge APM sink unit. This is more reason for the Reaver. Look at most of those matches and all of the Protoss players did nothing actually creative. Protoss just encourages big balls.. just a terrible race design. HotS will fix it is my guess.


Yes, they are somewhat predictable but so are the other races. I do hope that they buff gateway units, nerf colossi a bit but then with ff, gateways units would dominate MM early on because otherwise it's not too bad until stim and cs come into play. Anyways, they mentioned the possibility of adding the reaver in an older interview and I'm sure with a couple of new units/abilities, there will be a lot more strats in HoTS


----------



## WALSRU

MLG Going to be in Columbus this weekend. I'm so there. Rooting for QXC, RootCatz, KawaiiRice, and MrBitters as a stand in for my favorite . . . Spanishiwa!

I wonder if Day9 rolls with security. Because I'd be quite tempted to give him a bro hug.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


MLG Going to be in Columbus this weekend. I'm so there. Rooting for QXC, RootCatz, KawaiiRice, and MrBitters as a stand in for my favorite . . . Spanishiwa!

I wonder if Day9 rolls with security. Because I'd be quite tempted to give him a bro hug.


You're going to be a week late, brah.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


MLG Going to be in Columbus this weekend. I'm so there. Rooting for QXC, RootCatz, KawaiiRice, and MrBitters as a stand in for my favorite . . . Spanishiwa!

I wonder if Day9 rolls with security. Because I'd be quite tempted to give him a bro hug.


OMG I KNOW!

Did you see Idra's early gg?

To hallucinated VRs?


----------



## dropkickninja

So anyone know what happens to the GSL invites? Having trouble finding them. I doubt Idra will go though.


----------



## WALSRU

@Lazorbeam

WUT?! Looking it up now . . .


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU;13772593*
> MLG Going to be in Columbus this weekend. I'm so there. Rooting for QXC, RootCatz, KawaiiRice, and MrBitters as a stand in for my favorite . . . Spanishiwa!
> 
> I wonder if Day9 rolls with security. Because I'd be quite tempted to give him a bro hug.


MLG just finished yesterday unfortunately







As to the early GG for hallucinated VRs, I think that was in the last MLG. On meta, HuK hallucinated a lot of VRs and marched into Idra's base with a really small force. Even though Idra had the game, he GG'd out


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So according to geekhack, MC has switched to a realforce topre 103 at mlg.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13770544*
> Marauders are pretty dumb but I don't really feel any huge favoritism in TvP early like I used to with all these changes. Defensively they do grant Terran some nice early expansions especially on big maps.
> 
> How could you cheer for a Zerg? Boo.
> 
> What?


It is still a mistake to add the reaver. I'm all for taking out the colossi for a unit that requires a bit more micro (even though you do have HTs, Sentries and Phoenix's which require micro to use at their best) but addin in a SC1 unit would be a bad move. Make a new unit that requires more micro if you think that is needed, but not a unit from SC1.

Although I have to say, I understand you might be frustrated about the colossi not needing much micro, but if you're fighting an enemy with air, then you've got to constantly move them around in order to attack/dodge the air.


----------



## WALSRU

***


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13769403*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230665
> 
> Good at SC = can get the girls.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTDh8jK6jwk&


The translator:

ummmm ____
ummmm blah
ummmm blah
uummmmmmmmmm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13770347*
> Protoss is so predictable and has no huge APM sink unit. This is more reason for the Reaver. Look at most of those matches and all of the Protoss players did nothing actually creative. Protoss just encourages big balls.. just a terrible race design. HotS will fix it is my guess.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13770544*
> 
> What?


How can we not laugh at you saying protoss likes big balls.


----------



## poroboszcz

If you were to pick one VOD to show someone the awesomeness of competitive SC2 (in terms of entertainment rather than players' skill that they are likely to not understand) what game would it be?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13777161*
> If you were to pick one VOD to show someone the awesomeness of competitive SC2 (in terms of entertainment rather than players' skill that they are likely to not understand) what game would it be?


Anything with Boxer







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13775543*
> It is still a mistake to add the reaver. I'm all for taking out the colossi for a unit that requires a bit more micro (even though you do have HTs, Sentries and Phoenix's which require micro to use at their best) but addin in a SC1 unit would be a bad move. Make a new unit that requires more micro if you think that is needed, but not a unit from SC1.
> 
> Although I have to say, I understand you might be frustrated about the colossi not needing much micro, but if you're fighting an enemy with air, then you've got to constantly move them around in order to attack/dodge the air.


Reaver!


----------



## DoomDash

Just got crushed in the WCG qualifiers... by a ranked 46 Grand Master Terran player from vile.


----------



## ThumperSD

I never thought reaver required much micro at all. The thing moves as slow as an overlord. I guess the micro comes in when you load it in and out of the drop ship. I still want to see it back so P can have a better drop harass option.

But as a unit alone, the colossus requires more micro than the reaver


----------



## DoomDash

I am talking about dropship play.


----------



## yks

http://twitter.com/#!/gordonhayward

lol, forward of the utah jazz got featured on TL.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13778848*
> I am talking about dropship play.


I've posted two or three replays on here that had colossus drop ship play. But that's not very viable in normal play.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL everyone add gordon hayward right now!


----------



## murderbymodem

Help me out guys...what should I have done differently here.
http://drop.sc/12847

I'm the Zerg player. I'm thinking I didn't have enough corruptors, and I had absolutely terrible positioning (not that there was any good place to engage him...close positions on metal). I'm really having a hard time taking on Protoss in long macro games. The Protoss death ball is so hard to engage...


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13777161*
> If you were to pick one VOD to show someone the awesomeness of competitive SC2 (in terms of entertainment rather than players' skill that they are likely to not understand) what game would it be?


MMA vs MVP during the GSTL March Finals on Dual Sight.

That game was so good. There was this one moment Tastosis went quiet for like 5 minutes before they realized they weren't talking cause it got so tense.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13778240*
> Just got crushed in the WCG qualifiers... by a ranked 46 Grand Master Terran player from vile.


Vile? Guessing that's another pro team







Either way, I think whenever you are playing the qualifiers, it's best to not research the opponent beforehand. Think of it this way: If you research and find out that he's in GM, you'll start to become pessimistic and doubt you can win, so, not researching who he is helps IMO








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13777161*
> If you were to pick one VOD to show someone the awesomeness of competitive SC2 (in terms of entertainment rather than players' skill that they are likely to not understand) what game would it be?


hmm, that GSL 2 or 3 game between Clide and Leenock on Jungle Basin. The game got to BLs, etc.... and Clide still managed to secure the win even though. Given, I think the last MLG game between MMA and Losira on meta was great as well. Same goes for game 5 of Nestea and scfou in the last GSL. There are probably more but these ones left a mark








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13779167*
> http://twitter.com/#!/gordonhayward
> 
> lol, forward of the utah jazz got featured on TL.


lol, he had 1.8k viewers last time I checked 2 hours back, but, the quality is pretty bad IMO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13779673*
> MMA vs MVP during the GSTL March Finals on Dual Sight.
> 
> That game was so good. There was this one moment Tastosis went quiet for like 5 minutes before they realized they weren't talking cause it got so tense.


Sounds crazy. What game # was this?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13779167*
> http://twitter.com/#!/gordonhayward
> 
> lol, forward of the utah jazz got featured on TL.


He really plays SC2? lol... Id expect him to play COD or something. Kid has some l33t shooting skills.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;13780641*
> He really plays SC2? lol... Id expect him to play COD or something. Kid has some l33t shooting skills.


Yes indeed, but, the quality isn't the greatest. He's Plat as I recall. Having said that, I'm sure he'll be getting a lot of views once more ppl hear about it


----------



## yks

game 7, bf


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


LOL everyone add gordon hayward right now!


This is actually really good for the sport (SC2 that is).


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231146

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## DoomDash

Hey morrow notices ZvT imbalances in the macro game... neat.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13780498*
> lol, he had 1.8k viewers last time I checked 2 hours back, but, the quality is pretty bad IMO.


I tried to stream snipe them in 4v4 last night but I think my 4s MMR is too high =(


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13786905*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231146
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


He also said Z needs more micro units heh.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's like when artosis interviewed nestea and he said that zerg was sad. I was like ? what the heck is he talking about.


----------



## yks

The more interesting part was the P micro, imo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13788289*
> The more interesting part was the P micro, imo.


and the T micro imo.


----------



## WALSRU

and that Zerg is a "defensive" race imo


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13788312*
> and the T micro imo.


yeah but T micro is already a given. so its not interesting. hearing about P is rare-er


----------



## Twistacles

I just tried to play 8 hours in a single day to see what its like to train like a pro.

My brain melted after 5ish hours. Jesus christ how do they do it.

Won like all my TvTs. Why the **** is everyone going bio? Literally all my games were them early expanding and losing to a 3 tank siege contain with a floating rax. Every time.

Been trying to beat zergs in long macro games and it's getting harder and harder. Broodlord infestor is weird to deal with. Hard to get all the vikings and ghosts necessary.

TvP is stupid as always.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


I just tried to play 8 hours in a single day to see what its like to train like a pro.

My brain melted after 5ish hours. Jesus christ how do they do it.

Won like all my TvTs. Why the **** is everyone going bio? Literally all my games were them early expanding and losing to a 3 tank siege contain with a floating rax. Every time.

Been trying to beat zergs in long macro games and it's getting harder and harder. Broodlord infestor is weird to deal with. Hard to get all the vikings and ghosts necessary.

TvP is stupid as always.


TvP is hard for me recently, but I am getting better at TvZ and I think TvT. I am really trying to abuse Terrans strengths better than I used to.


----------



## DoomDash

lol stim research time









  
 You Tube  



 
*EDIT*

probably fake...

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/threa...tchnotes-1-4-0


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wow.. thor hits four targets lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Buff/Nerf.


----------



## onoz

I don't get the "update" on the baneling's shadow while burrowed. What does that mean exactly? It hints where the banelings are?

*EDIT* Post 2000!


----------



## DoomDash

Yes. Just like you can see shadowed burrowed roaches, or used to be able to anyway.


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yes. Just like you can see shadowed burrowed roaches, or used to be able to anyway.


I still don't quite understand this. It seems a bit "cheap" to me to let other players know that they should look out for burrowed units. For moving burrowed units, I can understand (roaches and infestors), but why banelings?

I'm only a silver player though, so do with that what you will.


----------



## DoomDash

Terran side of things think its cheap to lose 700 minerals to 50/50, and potentially lose more because of not enough AA.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


game 7, bf


thx.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


lol stim research time









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Ouw6N1QpY

*EDIT*

probably fake...

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/threa...tchnotes-1-4-0


Nice games by Major, showed InControl who's boss. Mass ghosts FTW!









Yes, fake patch notes^^


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Terran side of things think its cheap to lose 700 minerals to 50/50, and potentially lose more because of not enough AA.


I'm not sure what this all means. What's 50/50? AA = anti air?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


I'm not sure what this all means. What's 50/50? AA = anti air?


Sorry the correct price for two banes is 100/50 I think. ( So price ).

Yes AA = anti-air.


----------



## Sainesk

this ranking system is awesome, 12 wins in a row at rank 1 and no promotion.

and then I get matched with people who keep going mass void ray against 3 terrans mass marines for over 20 minutes while I constantly hold off every attack with banes.

team games... derp.

will be so glad once I get these achievs over with

edit: oh yay promo in 4v4 finally...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13794197*
> this ranking system is awesome, 12 wins in a row at rank 1 and no promotion.
> 
> and then I get matched with people who keep going mass void ray against 3 terrans mass marines for over 20 minutes while I constantly hold off every attack with banes.
> 
> team games... derp.
> 
> will be so glad once I get these achievs over with
> 
> edit: oh yay promo in 4v4 finally...


rofl, mass VRs vs mass marines, tough one, I wonder who'll win!








Well, you're already at 4.3k, I think you should take a break for a while


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## ntherblast

How is 2 plats vs 2 diamons(who are friends) an even match? This matchmaking system is such bull i keep getting matched with randoms and then it puts be against friends and expects me to win. 2v2 in this game is a big joke all it is is friends vs randoms 3/4 of the time just because the friends are in a lower league doesnt mean that teams are even.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












That image is a biased image based on a person's 16:9 perspective.

If a person with a 16:10 tried to recreate the same thing, 16:9 would blackborder the top/bottom.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

There was a 100 page discussion in the monitor thread about this.


----------



## stuiees

Anyone with a 30" monitor play in 2560x1440 to preserve full FOV in 16:9? I have been playing in 2560x1600, but always forget to "try" 2560x1440 to maximize FOV.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13779673*
> MMA vs MVP during the GSTL March Finals on Dual Sight.
> 
> That game was so good. There was this one moment Tastosis went quiet for like 5 minutes before they realized they weren't talking cause it got so tense.


Thanks. I went with this one (posted here before, but here's a better quality):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0bzbqauR-E&feature=related[/ame]

Man it's awesome and Tastosis is at their best too.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I really like some of the covers gomtv has on in the music background. It's so corny sometimes that it's fun.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
rest here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=231621


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Slayers Alicia is a very very very good pvz player.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm silver, "Opponent is slightly favored" generally means platinum or diamond

........ how is that slightly favored


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13807523*
> Slayers Alicia is a very very very good pvz player.


Based on?


----------



## WALSRU

Alright everyone I have a few noob questions. I got to play about 5 games yesterday (as Zerg). Went 3 wins, 1 loss, and 1 disconnect (stupid Time Warner). My one loss was a result of my trying to go waay too Macro heavy. I had every corner of the map scouted with patrolling lings or OVs. My Toss opponent stayed in his main/natural and just created Stalkers and maybe two Collosus. I had about 4 bases and was pretty much playing sim-city while he was playing Starcraft. Before the 15 minute mark he moved out and his army rolled my expansion, my army, and then proceeded to roll over my big reinforcements. So here's my question:

ZvP is my toughest matchup right now. What's a good way to soften up my Toss opponent so I don't have to deal with his big deathball?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


ZvP is my toughest matchup right now. What's a good way to soften up my Toss opponent so I don't have to deal with his big deathball?


if you were positive he was on 1 base I wouldn't have gone with more than 2 bases personally.

Scout what he has by sacrificing an overlord if you can't get a ling up his ramp/doesn't see any army, and once you know he has stalker colo ball, build the units to counter it, like roach/infestor. Neural parasite those colo when he attacks and the game is pretty much yours unless your facing a much higher skilled opponent.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I'm silver, "Opponent is slightly favored" generally means platinum or diamond

........ how is that slightly favored


You could be almost there.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13810144*
> Scout what he has by sacrificing an overlord


This is something I'm definitely not doing often enough. Thanks for the reminder


----------



## ntherblast

Which website can i use to download replays from pro games such as MLG?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Which website can i use to download replays from pro games such as MLG?


http://sc2rep.com/


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=231113

updated stats for may off 1700 more games of tournaments in all 3 of EU/NA/KR


----------



## DoomDash

Zerg up, Terran down, Protoss down.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Them infestors.


----------



## yks

Zerg's be learning how to complain and get everything they want, mang.

I mean, Zerg's be learning how to play.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I mean, Zerg's be learning how to play.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=230955


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=230955


http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/78...l#post13779167

kinda late doom, kind of late. like 2 days late.


----------



## Sainesk

You Tube  



 
 wow SC2 can sound so dirty...


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU;13808272*
> ZvP is my toughest matchup right now. What's a good way to soften up my Toss opponent so I don't have to deal with his big deathball?


As a zerg you really have to be a reactionary player... You need to recognize what your toss opponent is doing in order to respond corerctly and put yourself in a great position to enter the mid game. You want to obviously send your initial drone scout check to see if he takes his second gas (this is a big tell)... Make sure your not getting proxy gate or something cheese. At around the ~5:30 min mark you want to send a scouting overlord to check tech. If you saw him take the early second gas, look for a 3g expand with sentrys, DT play (twilight/ light sentrys), fast stargate (only 1 or 2 gates), or blink stalkers (twilight is reasarching, also a few stalkers on map/very few sentries). If he didnt take his second gas early, prepare for 4wg rush (roaches, spines). Some players will go double gas 4wg, but it is less common now after the nerf, and will only happen on maps with very big chokes like xelnaga, but you should be able to spot it with correctly placed overlords... If your scared of your ovie dying before it can get the propper intel, you can faint pressure with some lings at the ramp to distract your opponent while scouting.

If your toss oppenent is doing some sort of FE build, you should take an early 3'rd drone up and go for either a hydra timing (vs gateway army) or spire tech (vs robo tech).

Try and get early map control so you can get a good scout on when your oppenent plans to push out.

Hope that helps you some.


----------



## stuiees

To anyone else who is in masters, how many games did it take for you to get placed in masters?

I was just able to do it in 19 total games. Won my first 5 placement matches, placed me in platinum league, won 4 more games and it promoted me to diamond, then won 6 more games, lost 1 game, won 1 game, lost 1 game, won 1 game and was placed in masters league with a final record of 17-2.


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13813638*
> *snip*
> 
> wow SC2 can sound so dirty...


Holy mother. They have such balls! I love it but it's so painful to watch.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;13813738*
> To anyone else who is in masters, how many games did it take for you to get placed in masters?
> 
> I was just able to do it in 19 total games. Won my first 5 placement matches, placed me in platinum league, won 4 more games and it promoted me to diamond, then won 6 more games, lost 1 game, won 1 game, lost 1 game, won 1 game and was placed in masters league with a final record of 17-2.


And I get bashed into oblivion whenever I make the claim that natural talent and intelligence is *the* most important trait of a world-class player.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;13813738*
> To anyone else who is in masters, how many games did it take for you to get placed in masters?
> 
> I was just able to do it in 19 total games. Won my first 5 placement matches, placed me in platinum league, won 4 more games and it promoted me to diamond, then won 6 more games, lost 1 game, won 1 game, lost 1 game, won 1 game and was placed in masters league with a final record of 17-2.


Since I was already high Diamond before Masters even came out, it took me 1 game.


----------



## eosgreen

swapping lessons to get into masters for someone to find me a good mobo


----------



## lazi punk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;13813738*
> To anyone else who is in masters, how many games did it take for you to get placed in masters?
> 
> I was just able to do it in 19 total games. Won my first 5 placement matches, placed me in platinum league, won 4 more games and it promoted me to diamond, then won 6 more games, lost 1 game, won 1 game, lost 1 game, won 1 game and was placed in masters league with a final record of 17-2.


thats really good I guess your mmr was good enough for masters.


----------



## DoomDash

Who is "Atheism" in our Overclock.net division list? I have him on my buddy list so I'm assuming he did a name change.

Nevermind, I think it's Nevermind







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Have you guys tried putting hotkeys for your mouse buttons? For example, stim and siege controlled by your right thumb in the mouse where the two side mouse buttons are.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13818785*
> Have you guys tried putting hotkeys for your mouse buttons? For example, stim and siege controlled by your right thumb in the mouse where the two side mouse buttons are.


I did it first with build worker, not such a great plan always ended up queueing but later as A move and hold position.

see no reason why you shouldnt use it for stim and seige.


----------



## joe50000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU;13808272*
> 
> ZvP is my toughest matchup right now. What's a good way to soften up my Toss opponent so I don't have to deal with his big deathball?


Protoss definitely dominates Zerg right now, probably even more than Terran is dominating Protoss at higher levels.

It really boils down to this: you're going to be at a disadvantage the whole game, so you have to get really creative and keep sharp.

1. Fundamentals: don't get supply locked, don't forget upgrades, have a solid opening build, scout constantly, don't neglect detection; these are all the foundations of good play.

2. Drone timing. If you're willing to sit through an entire video on it, Day[9], a commentator and top level player/strategist has a video on it on youtube. Just search for "day9 drone timing". It sounds like you're having trouble when it comes to timing drones vs army. This one aspect of zerg is what makes it the hardest race IMO.

3. Know when to stop a tech path, or adjust play as necessary: A roach hydra army, even with support from corruptors, is going to rolled by stalker colossus, especially when both armies are at 200/200. However, a roach hydra army timing push will roll over a gateway army with ease. The point is, there comes a point where a certain tech path can't be used in the same fashion, but is still viable. So while you can't fight his army face-to-face, try doing drops, nydus worms, infestor harssment, burrowed roaches, baneling busts/drops, or other constant harassment until you can reach hive tech.

4. Know what your opponent is able to do and when - if you see an early forge/fast expo, you know he won't have gateway tech for some time - all his chrono boost is going to be spent on his probes, and his cyber core won't come until much later. That means for the first 7 minutes or so of game time (assuming he has a tight build, if not, you have an ever wider window), you can outproduce his army and go for a push. If you see four gate, two gate stargate or two gate robo, you know his expo won't be until later unless he completely halts unit production - in the former case, you must create army to defend, but if you see that much tech early on and then an expo before the 7-8 minute mark, he won't have the economy to do both, so you can safely drone up.

5. Cheese. A 6/7 pool is very effective against protoss, especially if they're doing a fast expand build or an early eco build (some players will delay their first warpgate to crank out more probes early on). While it might not be able to finish them off, they'll be playing behind the whole game and be even more vulnerable to banelings and burrowed roaches.

6. Muta ling is very effective against protoss. While phoenix hard counter mutas, they're not cost effective, and much more time consuming to build. To match 2-hatch muta ling, a protoss player needs to be on 3 bases and have 3 stargates and 6 warpgates constantly making units - which is extremely difficult to defend. Stalkers do okay against mutas, but the point is he's going to be pinned to his base - the moment he attacks, surround with lings. Lings build quickly, so stack larvae - if he's staying in his base to defend or trying to expand, drone up; if he's pushing out either for an all-in or counter, then pump lings.

There's a lot more than that, but it's a good place to get started. Also, try not to use casts as a learning tool - they give you a good idea of how to control units and where/when to engage and with what kind of units, but you can't see things like expansion timings, drone timing, economy management, tech switching, and you have to remember that the reason why pros play so well is that they almost always know what their opponent is doing - when you watch a casted game, it's easy to take for granted that the players can't see each other constantly like we can.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

This is pretty cheesy, but lulzy

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EsOWkKjgTY&feature=digest[/ame]


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *joe50000*


Protoss definitely dominates Zerg right now, probably even more than Terran is dominating Protoss at higher levels.

It really boils down to this: you're going to be at a disadvantage the whole game, so you have to get really creative and keep sharp.


Where are you getting this information? Idra?


----------



## stuiees

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


ZvP is my toughest matchup right now. What's a good way to soften up my Toss opponent so I don't have to deal with his big deathball?


Right now people are using ling, bane, muta, infestor, ultra to counter the toss "death ball"


----------



## poroboszcz

Giving away my ladder points!


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13820848*
> Where are you getting this information? Idra?


And Korea









Thanks Joe for the epic list. I read it twice and I'm going to keep it in mind if I can get some matches in tonight. I think I saw that Day9 daily a while back but I was playing Toss at the time so I think I'll dig it back up.


----------



## poroboszcz

Fun times.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13826195*
> Giving away my ladder points!


Huh? What?








Did I miss something?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13827617*
> Huh? What?


Biiiiiig where have you been, it's my last week before my big break from sc and I haven't gotten to roach drone all in you in so looonnnnggg...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;13829367*
> Biiiiiig where have you been, it's my last week before my big break from sc and I haven't gotten to roach drone all in you in so looonnnnggg...










I was really busy with work and all, so, I didn't have much time for SCII aside for an hour or two a couple of days back. I might end up logging up a bit later(30min or so) and we can have a couple of games then


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;13822660*
> Right now people are using ling, bane, muta, infestor, ultra to counter the toss "death ball"


Almost impossible to play sc2 on hhkb


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13829692*
> Almost impossible to play sc2 on hhkb


wut? does it not have a control key or something?

I've played with some pretty bad ones and can't really imagine an unplayable one unless it can't register 2 keys at a time or something like that...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Check out the layout and get back to me on how to press f1-f5 keys while having your right hand on the mouse the same time.


----------



## yks

yo top 4 in the GSL super tournament. guess what the race distribution are


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Check out the layout and get back to me on how to press f1-f5 keys while having your right hand on the mouse the same time.


I don't see f1-f5, if you mean the number keys I can reach to 8 if my caps was my ctrl key, 9 if I stretch a little and I have pretty small hands...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't know what you're saying man. Check the hhkb layout.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


yo top 4 in the GSL super tournament. guess what the race distribution are


PROTOSS!!!

no wait...

ZERG!

wait no..


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


yo top 4 in the GSL super tournament. guess what the race distribution are


I'm guessing it's the coolest race in the game 4x.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

TvTvTvT

BOORRINNNGG


----------



## Dr216

on the plus side it wont be 20 mins for the entire final on the down side it will be 16 years and not an exciting 16 years at that


----------



## ntherblast

Is team liquids wiki site the best place to go for build orders?


----------



## BigFan

^^I think so.

Goody against Ace on meta, the mothership ruled the game


----------



## XiCynx

Quote:


> Custom Games:
> 
> If you want anything to be added to this post, especially guides and videos for newbies, post them and I'll add them


Figured since I saw this you could add this if you feel the need to, it is myself vs and insane AI and I show you how to beat them in under 2:45









http://www.xfire.com/video/3652e1/


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=232709

BW legends
terran will remain on top
terran rewards the most skillz.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13843165*
> terran will remain on top


nerf naow!

jk

so a lot of TvT games in the foreseeable competitive future?

just wait till my grandmasters switch from terran to z/p/r for a week - get free cookies for life (in the shape of a marine







) program kicks off...


----------



## Alex132

I played as Protoss against a zerg, he went baneling/roach and i went stalker/sentry.
I had a lot more stalkers, 2+2+0 upgrades and he had 1+0. Only reason I lost the battle was because instead of pressing "F" for forcefeilds to stop the banelings I by mistake pressed "G" for guardian shield, ran out of energy and my stalkers fell to his masses of banelings








So irritating.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Sheesh

Not gonna play sc2 at these speeds


----------



## XiCynx

I remember the days of playing Starcraft of Dial-up. To bad that still can't be the case now-a-days.


----------



## ntherblast

Another question. What do most people use their function keys for?


----------



## godofdeath

question

is there a certain amount of games that needs to be played before you can get the 4v4?
i only got 1v1 and 2v2 right now


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13847486*
> Another question. What do most people use their function keys for?


For fixed camera positions. I currently use F1 and F2 with ease, trying to work in F3, F4 -- But my fingers don't seem to like that right now.

F1 is my main, F2 is my nat. I want F3 to be my 3rd and I want F4 to be my warp-in location.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *godofdeath;13847533*
> question
> 
> is there a certain amount of games that needs to be played before you can get the 4v4?
> i only got 1v1 and 2v2 right now


You can do that right away, battle.net must be lagging today.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13848576*
> For fixed camera positions. I currently use F1 and F2 with ease, trying to work in F3, F4 -- But my fingers don't seem to like that right now.
> 
> F1 is my main, F2 is my nat. I want F3 to be my 3rd and I want F4 to be my warp-in location.
> 
> You can do that right away, battle.net must be lagging today.


I think it was because I had it on that practice league thing
games are so slow for gameplay speed


----------



## DoomDash

So apparently you can't have sigs with links to your stream or battle.net profile on here. This site is seriously disappointing at times. Sucks that some rules hurt the community.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13848718*
> So apparently you can't have sigs with links to your stream or battle.net profile on here. This site is seriously disappointing at times. Sucks that some rules hurt the community.


What?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;13849129*
> What?


Yep had a mod warn me. I also got warned for posting to banelingbbq comics which had one swear in it and got a warning before. Ridiculous.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCZfbDt7Wro[/ame]


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13849361*
> -


oh snap, my new sc2 idol...









jw is that real?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.


----------



## Nw0rb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCZfbDt7Wro


Im president of the united states wooooo hahahahhaa omg too funny


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Another question. What do most people use their function keys for?


I use F1 to switch to idle worker, F2-F5 for fixed views. F2-3 is always my ramp or nat, F4 would be proxy pylon position while attacking, and F5 enemy ramp/position.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


What?


That blinker link is FORBIDDEN

Rules are rules, but OCN sometimes makes me feel LKDSJF:LKAJ:GLKDJF:ALKJDS

Question:

How do you snipe someone on ladder?


----------



## ntherblast

I notice that the control groups from around 6-0 are rarely used is it because they are so far from the rest of the layouts?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


How do you snipe someone on ladder?


You watch their stream or add them on your buddy list if you know they are laddering, and you just try and time it if you are around the same MMR.


----------



## yks

mma is going beast mode.

down 0-2 and comes back to win 3 in a row.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13853010*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> mma is going beast mode.
> 
> down 0-2 and comes back to win 3 in a row.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



MKP did win in the end though, right?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's best of five isn't it.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13847486*
> Another question. What do most people use their function keys for?


Right now I use:

1-3 for my armies. 1 for my speedy lings/banelings, 2 if I have fliers or infestors, and 3 for excess queens in defense/tumors.

4 for all hatcheries

5-X for a queen next to each hatchery so I can double-tap 5, larva spit, tap 6 spit, etc

Maybe 9 for evo chamber if I'm lower on bases. Anything after 5 is hard to hit blind without practice imo


----------



## HandOfAnubis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13851783*
> I notice that the control groups from around 6-0 are rarely used is it because they are so far from the rest of the layouts?


I use 1-7 for the most part. 1,2, and 3 are always my movingparty/army. I am playing a lot of Zerg these days so 1 is my lings, 2 my ranged (roaches or hydras) and 3 is reserved for air. I will use 4 for overlords/oveseers to scout and tie up buildings etc. 5 is all my Unit producing structures (hatches, but when I play terran all my barracks, factories, and starports are on this too) I use 6 for my queens to inject larva, and then 7 is for all buildings that have any possible upgrades (Evo chambers, roach den,Spire etc..) then tab through as needed and I can Macro and Upgrade no matter what I am looking at on the map... this works for all other races as well for me...


----------



## WALSRU

^Coaching sounds awesome but the wife would probably find out and KILL me for spending money on Stacraft lessons lol


----------



## dcloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Another question. What do most people use their function keys for?


I am not aware of this camera position thing. It sounds very intriguing. Do they just assign like hotkeys? Shift +F1, Shift+F2, etc etc?


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss can't coach me.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


No offense but coming on this forum just to advertise your coaching is frowned upon. You can learn everything that you need to get good just by watching pro replays and grinding out games a long with analyzing your own replays. I'm not trying to down you or anything but grandmasters on NA isn't that good, *I admit that I suck pretty badly but so do most NA grand master players.*


Yeah Select is terrible . . .


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


Yeah Select is terrible . . .










Reading comprehension fail? I said most player.....Select and Idra are top NA players but even they don't stand up to the mid to high tier Korean players.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Reading comprehension fail? I said most player.....Select and Idra are top NA players but even they don't stand up to the mid to high tier Korean players.


???

Yes they do. What? Hasn't the GSTL and MLG proven that the koreans aren't really ahead?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


???

Yes they do. What? Hasn't the GSTL and MLG proven that the koreans aren't really ahead?


I agree to a point. I think Idra does stand up, not sure about Select since I haven't seen his games. I do have to agree with Mwarren on his point to an extent, certain NA players can keep up but the majority can't.

Not sure what MLG you were watching, but, the Koreans dominated MLG taking the top 3 spots with Idra coming in 4th. It's true that he all in'd twice against MC and went FE which got punished but it was his choice to do so. Even after going into macro mode seizing a fast 3rd which was a gold base and getting the upper hand in the 4th game, he still lost the game.

I think the organization of the Koreans(how they train) is the key. Taking SlayerS as an example, they choose a map for the day and play 50-60 games on it. Analyzing and playing is really the only way to get better IMO


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


???

Yes they do. What? Hasn't the GSTL and MLG proven that the koreans aren't really ahead?


Its proven the opposite, actually.

For MLG, the Koreans finished 1st through 3rd. And Moon finished 8th (only being beaten by a fellow Korean [MC]) and July went undefeated -- only losing to another Korean [Moon].

So for MLG, the Koreans only lost to other Koreans. Heck, Losira beat Incontrol w/ 1 hand cause his keyboard broke.

As for the GSL WC, if you read the post-game interviews of the foreigners, the consensus is the koreans were messing around for the charity TeamLeague and in the Bracket Stage of the tournament only 1 foreigner beat a KR (Dimaga beating NesTea)

Even @ IEM the Koreans finished 1-3 and the 4th place was a Korea-living Foreigner (Moonglade)

With the exception of very few NA players (probably 1-3 of them) I feel as if the top ~20 of the NA players are only middle to low tier GSL-A players.


----------



## DoomDash

Fast 3-3 Marauder heavy TvP. Trying to do this every game. Been having troubles with voidray all ins but I think I can fix that. Thorzane style opener.



Probably should drop, and take my 4th/5th faster. I kinda knew I won but no excuse. I've been doing what the Korean pros have been doing in TvP to prepare for late game... eliminate almost all marines.

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/new...oing-to-korea/


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13863408*
> Its proven the opposite, actually.
> 
> For MLG, the Koreans finished 1st through 3rd. And Moon finished 8th (only being beaten by a fellow Korean [MC]) and July went undefeated -- only losing to another Korean [Moon].
> 
> So for MLG, the Koreans only lost to other Koreans. Heck, Losira beat Incontrol w/ 1 hand cause his keyboard broke.


I dont know that simply looking at a top 3 for a single tourney is conclusive proof of a big gap between korea and the rest of the world, We saw decidedly lackluster performances from quite a few players, not least of all Idra who in his 2nd series agains mc was just painfull to watch, Kiwi didnt play as well as we have seen him either. Further to that it realy would not suprise anyone to see 4 out of those 5 koreans be the top 4 of any gsl season.

I think when people talk about the rest of the world being close to korea you have to remember they lived through broodwar, where the gap was huge sure there is still a gap but it looks to be closing fast. Also worth bearing in mind that there is loosing a game and there is looseing a game we didnt see much in the way of completely crushing 1 sided games which we most definately would have in brood war.


----------



## DoomDash

I think a lot of the reason Korea does well against foreigners is a defeatest mindset, or putting them on a pedestal. Too much respect.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13864862*
> I dont know that simply looking at a top 3 for a single tourney is conclusive proof of a big gap between korea and the rest of the world, We saw decidedly lackluster performances from quite a few players, not least of all Idra who in his 2nd series agains mc was just painfull to watch, Kiwi didnt play as well as we have seen him either. Further to that it realy would not suprise anyone to see 4 out of those 5 koreans be the top 4 of any gsl season.
> 
> I think when people talk about the rest of the world being close to korea you have to remember they lived through broodwar, where the gap was huge sure there is still a gap but it looks to be closing fast. Also worth bearing in mind that there is loosing a game and there is looseing a game we didnt see much in the way of completely crushing 1 sided games which we most definately would have in brood war.


Obviously the gap in SC2 isn't as big as it was in BW. But the gap is still large enough where, in IEM - Dreamhack - MLG, the Koreans have only been knocked out by other Koreans.

With the way SC2 is, it's showing that Koreans aren't unbeatable, but with the way the environment is in the US and KR when it comes to training, the average GM KR will still be a higher than the average GM US.

Once DH Summer comes though, that tournament will be one to watch. I already drooled all over the player list. That tournament will be hard for the Koreans.


----------



## rhed5

SOTIS makes me such an angry person. I'm never angry playing 1v1's but damn u sotis!! OP heroes, really really bad teammates make me rage so hard. Kinda like playing a FPS game, but you rage even more. It's better to not have any teammates than having really bad ones as they just feed the opponent and it becomes an impossible task, even if you're good (5+ k/d ratio)


----------



## dropkickninja

Naniwa and thorzain are headed to korea gsl code a plus gstl on wemadefox!!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=233289[/URL]


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13829692*
> Almost impossible to play sc2 on hhkb


I use my 86u when I play sc2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13866280*
> SOTIS makes me such an angry person. I'm never angry playing 1v1's but damn u sotis!! OP heroes, really really bad teammates make me rage so hard. Kinda like playing a FPS game, but you rage even more. It's better to not have any teammates than having really bad ones as they just feed the opponent and it becomes an impossible task, even if you're good (5+ k/d ratio)


Just play 1v1.


----------



## poroboszcz

Is that Hummingbird from OCN?

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Hummingb1rd


----------



## DoomDash

Most likely yes.


----------



## HometownHero

Do we have a chat channel for sc2? Does anyone ever use the chat channel feature? I am really sick of getting scrubs in 4s.


----------



## DoomDash

overclock.net is our channel.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13873803*
> overclock.net is our channel.


Thank you.

I'm on a lot but should be playing way more 1s than I do now. Usually messing around in 4s.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13866280*
> SOTIS makes me such an angry person. I'm never angry playing 1v1's but damn u sotis!! OP heroes, really really bad teammates make me rage so hard. Kinda like playing a FPS game, but you rage even more. It's better to not have any teammates than having really bad ones as they just feed the opponent and it becomes an impossible task, even if you're good (5+ k/d ratio)


I use to play Dota and HoN. Sotis is so unbalanced its laughable that its still at the top of the popularity list.


----------



## yks

I forget how fcking awesome I am at this game sometimes.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


SOTIS makes me such an angry person. I'm never angry playing 1v1's but damn u sotis!! OP heroes, really really bad teammates make me rage so hard. Kinda like playing a FPS game, but you rage even more. It's better to not have any teammates than having really bad ones as they just feed the opponent and it becomes an impossible task, even if you're good (5+ k/d ratio)


Well, issue with sotis is, it mixes newbies and pros at the same time. I've played in games with others of similar experience and had fun/was able to actually do something







While in other ones, I would just get killed over and over and end up with like a 0.1 k/d ratio









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I forget how fcking awesome I am at this game sometimes.


rofl, boosting our ego much?


----------



## HandOfAnubis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dcloud*


I am not aware of this camera position thing. It sounds very intriguing. Do they just assign like hotkeys? Shift +F1, Shift+F2, etc etc?



I myself do not use the function keys. But I do have my backspace remapped to my space bar so that I can cycle through my hatches and then spam larvae easily at each hatch, and then my backspace is the most recent action, unit complete or being attacked etc...


----------



## BigFan

Blast from the past: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Sins


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Well, issue with sotis is, it mixes newbies and pros at the same time. I've played in games with others of similar experience and had fun/was able to actually do something







While in other ones, I would just get killed over and over and end up with like a 0.1 k/d ratio










If i played with you, 90% chance I will bm.









The thign is in-house games are really awesome w/ players around similar skill levels playing, but the thing is it's so hard to find them. i need to sit around the sotis channel for awhile to get a game going. Me and my friends need to join a team or something. Only 1 in 5 games last longer than 15 minutes.


----------



## DoomDash

http://classic.battle.net/window.shtml


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13883080*
> If i played with you, 90% chance I will bm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thign is in-house games are really awesome w/ players around similar skill levels playing, but the thing is it's so hard to find them. i need to sit around the sotis channel for awhile to get a game going. Me and my friends need to join a team or something. Only 1 in 5 games last longer than 15 minutes.


rofl, probably









Sad news for DH: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=233411&currentpage=1

Edit:
VTgaming: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=233557&currentpage=29

Edit2:
Awesome, would've watched had I known :/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=233753


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That's why I hate playing Jed. Always with the glgl's and glhfs. It's like he's knows that I know he's taunting me. Frigging BM


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13885280*
> That's why I hate playing Jed. Always with the glgl's and glhfs. It's like he's knows that I know he's taunting me. Frigging BM


hehe, he knows he's gonna win so he glgl's and glhf's just to rub it in


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin is so good it hurts.

This is how i felt when I got my blackwidow too:


----------



## Du-z

Hey guys i was wondering if any of you would be so kind to play a game with a complete noob, to give me some pointers (probably get asked this a lot







)


----------



## HandOfAnubis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Du-z;13894043*
> Hey guys i was wondering if any of you would be so kind to play a game with a complete noob, to give me some pointers (probably get asked this a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I wouldnt mind playing with you and giving you some pointers, shoot me a message with your info and I will add you. Been busy with work a lot lately but we can prob work out a time to get you going


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Du-z;13894043*
> Hey guys i was wondering if any of you would be so kind to play a game with a complete noob, to give me some pointers (probably get asked this a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Follow these 4 rules to get out of bronze:

1 - Make workers CONSTANTLY until you have 30 per base.
2 - Get detection (people love their stealth cheese).
3 - Screw defense, get an army instead.
4 - Hotkey EVERYTHING and stop clicking ****.


----------



## ntherblast

Need help with managing drones in sc2. Compared to the other races i am having a really hard time especially after like 14 supply when to produce drones since it is completly different from toss and terran. How do you guys know when to keep building drones for zerg without having it impact your army size?


----------



## rhed5

Zerg is the most difficult for beginners because you can't constantly produce peons while making units, the key is sneaking in as much as drones as you can until the last minute. You will have to lose a lot of games and gain expereince and wisdom to know when you can actually drone. Try to keep up with larvae injections, and you should have enough larvae in general to spend your money, and produce a lot of units at the last minute.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13890827*
> Jediwin is so good it hurts.
> 
> This is how i felt when I got my blackwidow too:


that's city keeboord. 2kro lol


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13896879*
> Zerg is the most difficult for beginners because you can't constantly produce peons while making units, the key is sneaking in as much as drones as you can until the last minute. You will have to lose a lot of games and gain expereince and wisdom to know when you can actually drone. Try to keep up with larvae injections, and you should have enough larvae in general to spend your money, and produce a lot of units at the last minute.


this or alterantively you can build alternating rounds, so a round of drones followed by one of army, the former is better but is very hard to learn and can often get you killed the later is easy but can leave you behind in economy, if doing the later i recomend a "macro" hatch to boost your production in general.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13896879*
> Zerg is the most difficult for beginners because you can't constantly produce peons while making units, the key is sneaking in as much as drones as you can until the last minute. You will have to lose a lot of games and gain expereince and wisdom to know when you can actually drone. Try to keep up with larvae injections, and you should have enough larvae in general to spend your money, and produce a lot of units at the last minute.


I think Zerg is pretty easy for beginners as well. Sure it's hard to always know when to drone, or keep up with injects, but if you forget to drone you can make up for it in a second. This is how BigFan plays lol.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think learning the hotkeys helps tremendously. When you can group unit producing and upgrade structures up all you need to do is hit your control group, hotkey, tab, hotkey and wait for things to come alive.


----------



## ntherblast

Got a question i think my mouse left click is messed up. My deathadder lately has been acting weirdly what happens is sometimes when i am for example clicking a worker it will do a double click instead of single and i am pretty sure i clicked once. Is my left click broken any ideas or ways to test it? it also happens randomly its very annoying when trying to pull a worker off to make a structure and all your workers come off cause of this


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/jp-exlusive-interviews-blizzard-browder-kim/

yes they are talking about Zerg being op late game vs Terran!


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13896842*
> Need help with managing drones in sc2. Compared to the other races i am having a really hard time especially after like 14 supply when to produce drones since it is completly different from toss and terran. How do you guys know when to keep building drones for zerg without having it impact your army size?


what really helps with this is SCOUTING. sac an overlord around the 5 min mark if you have to... if you know what your opponent has, you know what you need to be doing as far as massing army units or droning up. also it would be very helpful to learn the timings of common attacks, this way you know when you should maybe send a scouting ling to get an idea of army comp... it is very easy for zerg to tech switch with mass units in an instant, use that to your advantage


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13896842*
> Need help with managing drones in sc2. Compared to the other races i am having a really hard time especially after like 14 supply when to produce drones since it is completly different from toss and terran. How do you guys know when to keep building drones for zerg without having it impact your army size?


This pretty much answers your question:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;13896879*
> Zerg is the most difficult for beginners because you can't constantly produce peons while making units, the key is sneaking in as much as drones as you can until the last minute. You will have to lose a lot of games and gain expereince and wisdom to know when you can actually drone. Try to keep up with larvae injections, and you should have enough larvae in general to spend your money, and produce a lot of units at the last minute.


Personally, I just drone up and have 2 spines protecting my exp, so, 15 exp 14 pool(about that, I just vary it up







) and then I make two quick spines incase of early harass, drone up and starting getting structures as needed, etc.... As mentioned, I think what it comes down to is experience. You'll lose a bit of games at the start, but, once you play enough, you'll start getting a feeling when you should drone and when to build an army. Having slings at the towers and infront of their base/around the map helps you to determine when they are leaving their base so you can get ready in time








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13897248*
> I think Zerg is pretty easy for beginners as well. Sure it's hard to always know when to drone, or keep up with injects, but if you forget to drone you can make up for it in a second. *This is how BigFan plays lol.*










no, it's not how I play







I FE and then lay crawlers and drone behind it. If I see some pressure, I might make more crawlers/make some units then keep droning. Once I get to a certain drone count(or if I feel satisfied with what I have), I'll start making an army, etc.... and eventually, take a third after a while or double exp if I feel I can hold it


----------



## DoomDash

Whatever you say!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Whatever you say!


I'm not claiming that I don't forgot to make workers, but, I usually aim for the above gameplay whenever I play as Z









Nada vs. TT1 game 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NASL.tv


----------



## Du-z

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Follow these 4 rules to get out of bronze:

1 - Make workers CONSTANTLY until you have 30 per base.
2 - Get detection (people love their stealth cheese).
3 - Screw defense, get an army instead.
4 - Hotkey EVERYTHING and stop clicking ****.


thanks for the tips mate very much appreciated.


----------



## DoomDash

Nada vs TT1 was pretty close.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Du-z;13900593*
> thanks for the tips mate very much appreciated.


Should also mention:
- Work on building more supply depots/pylons/OLs











Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Nada won, went for a 3 rax pressure into a 4 rax then expanded behind his attack and went for another couple of rax with reactors/tech lab and eventually added medivacs and was able to trade successfully and catch the retreating army on move and then a gg.



NP OP! NERF plz









Edit:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Nada against Morrow, hopefully Nada wins it!


Edit2:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Nada took the first game on typhon, held off 3 bane busts and then Morrow gg'd


Edit3:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Morrow took the 2nd going BLs+infestors+slings+corruptors on 6 bases!


----------



## DoomDash

I guess the finals games is why Zerg will probably get nerfed next patch ( since David Kimm says BL + Infestors is possibly OP vs T ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I guess the finals games is why Zerg will probably get nerfed next patch ( since David Kimm says BL + Infestors is possibly OP vs T ).


Can't disagree. It was kinda sad to see that marine+viking ball fall due to FG. I think they should either reduce the range or make it so that you can still move with FG, so, that you can pull back injured troops.

MLG Columbus Top 10 moments: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=233817


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL, "possibly". It's not like we can say, why did you let zerg get to infestors/BLs as a rebuttal to zerg op late vs t.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Got a question i think my mouse left click is messed up. My deathadder lately has been acting weirdly what happens is sometimes when i am for example clicking a worker it will do a double click instead of single and i am pretty sure i clicked once. Is my left click broken any ideas or ways to test it? it also happens randomly its very annoying when trying to pull a worker off to make a structure and all your workers come off cause of this










Yeeeesh I hate that. I'm trying my best to find a way to turn that off. I have set double click to as quick as possible in windows so I don't do it as much in game. However that doesn't work that well. I still double click my workers and either hit stop or make them all do something else when I meant for one.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


LOL, "possibly". It's not like we can say, why did you let zerg get to infestors/BLs as a rebuttal to zerg op late vs t.

Yeeeesh I hate that. I'm trying my best to find a way to turn that off. I have set double click to as quick as possible in windows so I don't do it as much in game. However that doesn't work that well. I still double click my workers and either hit stop or make them all do something else when I meant for one.


infestors/BLs are brutal to go against as T if you are going for MMT because the tanks will do splash damage and get hit using BLs from a distance and then approaching the BLs will cause you to get FG'd by the infestors. You try vikings? He has corruptors to help out. You can emp but chances are, if he spreads them, you might hit one or two infestors, but, there is still enough energy for FG









Since I haven't posted a game in a while:

Decided to ladder and it was a ZvsP on Plateau. To ntherblast, this isn't the best example but if u do get a chance to watch the replay, personally, I started making army units when I felt I had enough drones(I still droned afterwards regardless XD). Given, I didn't notice the +1 so, I almost lost the game but the 4 hatcheries I had and with some of the $ saved, I was able to hold off with minimal damage(losing 25 drones is no biggie







).


----------



## Vuashke

You Tube


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Du-z*


thanks for the tips mate very much appreciated.










I"m not good enough to defend vs all ins when I go eco. Which translates to only build as much workers until I can stay alive to build more workers. Thus I don't over saturate to prep for expansion unless I know that's what the game is allowing me to do. This type of play may help when someone is allin-ing you, and you don't build too many workers and not enough defensive units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13903430*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZif-GOCt4Q


Sweet game







. I miss science vessels.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I can't wait to start the second SC1 campaign in SC2 and use some ultras.


----------



## SC2 Fanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13903430*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZif-GOCt4Q


http://pgu.me/w79


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13903376*
> infestors/BLs are brutal to go against as T if you are going for MMT because the tanks will do splash damage and get hit using BLs from a distance and then approaching the BLs will cause you to get FG'd by the infestors. You try vikings? He has corruptors to help out. You can emp but chances are, if he spreads them, you might hit one or two infestors, but, there is still enough energy for FG


You guys watch that NASL game of Morrow vs Nada on Metapolis? Omg infestors are scary. He fungal growthed everything... the thors, the marines, the vikings, and then he just cleaned up with mass corruptor/broodlords.

Infestors make me cringe


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't mind the damage as long as there's no movement restrictions. Roots and snares are the worst in games I've played.


----------



## DoomDash

At least snare over root.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SC2 Fanatic;13904328*
> http://pgu.me/w79


cant you just provide a normal looking link? =_=

oh i see, its a picture not a video


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13903824*
> I can't wait to start the second SC1 campaign in SC2 and use some ultras.


hehe, tell me about it. I'm excited as well








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;13904570*
> You guys watch that NASL game of Morrow vs Nada on Metapolis? Omg infestors are scary. He fungal growthed everything... the thors, the marines, the vikings, and then he just cleaned up with mass corruptor/broodlords.
> 
> Infestors make me cringe


Infestors are crazy good against all races. It comes down to the ability of ensaring the units and with low hp of marines, 2 FGs just wipe them out fast. It does make for some microable situation(spread/try to emp, feedback, snipe infestors) but otherwise once you are FG'd, there's not much you can do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13904646*
> I don't mind the damage as long as there's no movement restrictions. Roots and snares are the worst in games I've played.


True, I hate the idea of getting your marines ensared so that you can't retreated the injured ones. Hopefully, FG gets a little nerf next patch









Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vceqR-_ls64#t=02m20s
I thought some here might like this









GSL Super Tournament Finals Preview: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234192


----------



## yks

5 minutes til your execution!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13914789*
> 5 minutes til your execution!


hmm, still debating whether I should watch it or wait till tommorrow morning


----------



## DoomDash

watch!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's going on atm? Why was Dongraegu playing sc? And now mma's entering the rink?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13915658*
> What's going on atm? Why was Dongraegu playing sc? And now mma's entering the rink?


It was for the LG 3D tournament finals.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm so lost, I never knew there was an LG 3d tourny. Anyways to some TvT.

It's prolly but it seems like they're lip syncing.

Man these girls don't know how to dance at all... I guess it shouldn't take much to entertain a bunch of SC 2 nerds.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If Poltprime wins today, it would be because he's using his filco










Where as MMA will be loosing because he's using the crappy sponsored Razer Marauder and the solid deathadder.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0ZQaBVtsw&[/ame]

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=234384


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13915816*
> If Poltprime wins today, it would be because he's using his filco
> 
> Where as MMA will be loosing because he's using the crappy sponsored Razer Marauder and the solid deathadder.


lol he is using a g9x without the sides on small hands ^^


----------



## BigFan

WOW, just WOW.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Just read that Polt won 4-0 over MMA!







I mean, I was hoping he wins but 4-0 Boxer's spiritual successor







What a surprise!



GSL Champion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=19


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13917098*
> lol he is using a g9x without the sides on small hands ^^


Maybe it's cus it's easier to lift off if he plays with low dpi.

Polt is

Age: 22 (Korean: 24)

Does that mean he's 24 in Korea?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13919221*
> Maybe it's cus it's easier to lift off if he plays with low dpi.
> 
> Polt is
> 
> Age: 22 (Korean: 24)
> 
> Does that mean he's 24 in Korea?


Yes, I believe he would be considered 24 in Korea then


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Interesting mouse accuracy thread, for those of us with mouse inaccuracy:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234243


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin, I know you were trying out that 11-11 style, so I decided to try it myself. It's totally bad ass, and I wrote a little guide for the SCC people.

http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=2137.msg62674#new


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13925057*
> Jediwin, I know you were trying out that 11-11 style, so I decided to try it myself. It's totally bad ass, and I wrote a little guide for the SCC people.
> 
> http://starcraftcentral.net/forum/index.php?topic=2137.msg62674#new


hmm, that looks really similar to what qxc does. He goes 11 rax 12 rax and then rallies marines and tries for a bunker, etc.... Saw it in some game he played against a Zerg, can't recall the Zerg's name, but, it was IPL2 qualifiers I believe


----------



## Mike431635

I really need a good partner.. I keep playing 2v2 randoms (I like 1v1 but I like 2v2 more, it's more diverse) and eventually I'll find a pretty good player so we'll 2v2 together. We'll go 3 wins and then get a loss vs two diamond players and they get all pissed off and ragequit.

Seriously? I need someone to 2v2 with who is patient, mature, knows strategy, and is willing to learn from mistakes and improve, not just ragequit. I'm available in the evenings and during the day on weekends. I'm not picky about race but I've had the most fun with another protoss partner. I play strictly protoss and am pretty good with all the strats. 2 gate zealots, 4 gate proxy, and I'm really liking 2 gate robo right now.

Add me if you want to play some placement matches and see how it goes: [email protected]


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike431635;13927063*
> I really need a good partner.. I keep playing 2v2 randoms (I like 1v1 but I like 2v2 more, it's more diverse) and eventually I'll find a pretty good player so we'll 2v2 together. We'll go 3 wins and then get a loss vs two diamond players and they get all pissed off and ragequit.
> 
> Seriously? I need someone to 2v2 with who is patient, mature, knows strategy, and is willing to learn from mistakes and improve, not just ragequit. I'm available in the evenings and during the day on weekends. I'm not picky about race but I've had the most fun with another protoss partner. I play strictly protoss and am pretty good with all the strats. 2 gate zealots, 4 gate proxy, and I'm really liking 2 gate robo right now.
> 
> Add me if you want to play some placement matches and see how it goes: [email protected]


Join the overclock.net channel, might be able to find someone who's interested in some PP action









Interesting old interview with Boxer and Savior: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86325


----------



## Vuashke

so, any nada fans here?

btw, savior has been streaming games on daumplayer/afreeca if anyone is interested. hes been at it for a few nights in a row now


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13927960*
> so, any nada fans here?
> 
> btw, savior has been streaming games on daumplayer/afreeca if anyone is interested. hes been at it for a few nights in a row now


Prefer Boxer over Nada personally.

Savior is streaming BW? Sucks he is banned from e-sports in Korea.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13927960*
> so, any nada fans here?
> 
> btw, savior has been streaming games on daumplayer/afreeca if anyone is interested. hes been at it for a few nights in a row now


Really, hmm, I thought he was banned, but, I guess that's from playing







I'm somewhat of a nada fan, actually I'm a fan of a lot of the players *cough* name *cough* XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13928533*
> Prefer Boxer over Nada personally.
> 
> Savior is streaming BW? Sucks he is banned from e-sports in Korea.


Maybe he'll switch over to SCII? Considering he said that he spent a lot of his $$$ from his BW days in that old interview, maybe he'll hop over then









BTW, RO16 now on DH.

Guys, Idra vs. MC coming up at 4 EST. Rematch time!


----------



## consume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13927960*
> so, any nada fans here?
> 
> btw, savior has been streaming games on daumplayer/afreeca if anyone is interested. hes been at it for a few nights in a row now


I think a lot of people will tell you they are fans of nadas body....if you don't get the joke : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100673

But yeah after the last mlg, im totally a fan of mma. The hadouken at idra after he won the series did it for me







. And in the finals vs losira...THOSE DROPS.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13928557*
> Guys, Idra vs. MC coming up at 4 EST. Rematch time!





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



hehe, MC takes it 2-0 even after being down by 30 supply and being down a base. I guess MC is really Idra's bane


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hehe, MC takes it 2-0 even after being down by 30 supply and being down a base. I guess MC is really Idra's bane










Food doesn't mean anything. You need to consider upgrades, concaves, army value etc. Stalkers cost double the resources, you know! Also he had blink... and I bet a bunch more food tied up in workers and queens.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Food doesn't mean anything. You need to consider upgrades, concaves, army value etc. Stalkers cost double the resources, you know! Also he had blink... and I bet a bunch more food tied up in workers and queens.


lol, I know that







I'm mentioning more of what day9 and Apollo were saying. They usually compare the supplies even though that doesn't take into account workers. Idra had something like 20 more workers than MC when his dt attack failed and had a third exp so, it's likely army supplies were similar, if not more so in MC's favour. Not to mention he was on 2/2 I think while Idra was 0/1. Either way, I wasn't too surprised, but, day9's reactions and screaming were priceless


----------



## DoomDash

I think this forum hates me, as I constantly get warnings about stuff everyone else has or does hah.


----------



## l337sft

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think this forum hates me, as I constantly get warnings about stuff everyone else has or does hah.


This forums so strict lol, im surprised i get away with half the **** i do. ive got infractions for the most ridiculous things, like.. were all adults here.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


This forums so strict lol, im surprised i get away with half the **** i do. ive got infractions for the most ridiculous things, like.. were all adults here.


lmao You'll get an infraction for that too









Anywho, been laddering as Zerg... boy is it a change from toss. Lots more to micro, but all in all, same thing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think this forum hates me, as I constantly get warnings about stuff everyone else has or does hah.


lol, what happened this time? The only warning I ever got was back in 08 or 09 when my sig was over the limit and I was told to fix it up, but, I didn't both back then and went over to my other forum









Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


This forums so strict lol, im surprised i get away with half the **** i do. ive got infractions for the most ridiculous things, like.. were all adults here.


Well, to play the devil's advocate, we do have some 13 year olds on here, but, I agree with your point to an extent. It really depends on what you did









Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


lmao You'll get an infraction for that too









Anywho, been laddering as Zerg... boy is it a change from toss. Lots more to micro, but all in all, same thing.










hehe, well, Z is a different style than both T/P. I dunno about the lots more to micro, I think P can be as micro intensive as Z with ffing, blink, etc.... but it also comes down to positioning


----------



## yks

Saviour won't even be allowed in the GSL if he went to SC2. GOM banned him from their events, too. I guess he'll have to wait until SC2 is big enough where there is another TV station covering it and hope they won't ban him.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;13933071*
> lmao You'll get an infraction for that too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anywho, been laddering as Zerg... boy is it a change from toss. Lots more to micro, but all in all, same thing.


Morrow would tell you it's less to micro, =D


----------



## Vuashke

yeah, savior was banned from kespa-sanctioned games / gom-sanctioned games so his pro career is pretty much dead unless he does the foreign sc2 circuit which might still be trouble since i heard something about MLG having some sort of partnership with the GSL.

yeah it sucks that hes gone, however i think what he did was inexcusable. i dont have a problem with him streaming on daum or afreeca, but he did alot of bad things and helped ruin alot of people's lives. i remember the commentators pleading with the fans to stick with the game despite the matchfixing.

anyways, i met nada early last year (and one of his teammates, who still plays) and he seemed like a really polite guy, although i guess most koreans are. his left hand looked like he was playing the piano or something







i managed to snag their signatures on a random t shirt i was wearing at the time, still got it somewhere around here


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13932128*
> I think this forum hates me, as I constantly get warnings about stuff everyone else has or does hah.


One more infraction and I'm out; That's with warnings as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13933306*
> lol, what happened this time? The only warning I ever got was back in 08 or 09 when my sig was over the limit and I was told to fix it up, but, I didn't both back then and went over to my other forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, to play the devil's advocate, we do have some 13 year olds on here, but, I agree with your point to an extent. It really depends on what you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hehe, well, Z is a different style than both T/P. I dunno about the lots more to micro, I think P can be as micro intensive as Z with ffing, blink, etc.... but it also comes down to positioning


Do you see all of us don't have links to our player profiles? That's cus we've either got warnings or have been infract-ed about having external links.


----------



## yellowtoblerone




----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;13932661*
> This forums so strict lol, im surprised i get away with half the **** i do. ive got infractions for the most ridiculous things, like.. were all adults here.


That's why I refrain from posting too much








I have like 9 warnings and 4 bans on teamliquid...I don't want to risk getting banned here!

On a side note, SC2 with a mechanical keyboard is probably the best thing ever


----------



## DoomDash

Yes it is







. <3 my blackwidow.


----------



## yks

My Fantasy Team for TL's Fantasy GSTL:

▲Main Team▲
Tails
Junwi
Keen
Puzzle
Bomber (Captain)
Ryung
Squirtle
Taeja
SlayerS

Anti Team
Clide
FruitDealer
Moon


----------



## Lost Prophet

Anyone play co-op vs AI at all? I personally can't stand playing against human players (not because I suck HAR HAR)

I just come from an RTS background filled with co-op games of AoE2, Battlegrounds, CoH, etc

My friend and I have been playing SC2 co-op for awhile now, ramping up the difficulty gradually. Right now we're at us vs 2 medium AI and 2 hard AI. And playing Left 2 Die on hard. It's freakin insane


----------



## DoomDash

My friend won 498 Co-Op games before finally starting to ladder. He wishes he would have laddered instead.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/668983/1/PuzzleShift/


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13933850*
> Saviour won't even be allowed in the GSL if he went to SC2. GOM banned him from their events, too. I guess he'll have to wait until SC2 is big enough where there is another TV station covering it and hope they won't ban him.


Or see if he can wrangle his way into the international scene, there is a fair amount of money in that too especially for someone of his skill. Wether they would take him is hard to know though, its a shame as i love to see the way he plays but I think in terms of professional play his past mistakes make it impossible for him to return to the scene proper :'(


----------



## yellowtoblerone

GSTL is coming up today?


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V87Wp4lXlPg[/ame]


----------



## IWinFlips

Can anyone post a link to the absolute novice/n00b guide on SC2 and how to play?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IWinFlips;13935628*
> Can anyone post a link to the absolute novice/n00b guide on SC2 and how to play?


http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-132-back-to-the-basics-the-mental-checklist-3751430 My favorite episode.

Also the first page on here has tons of useful info:

http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/782557-official-starcraft-2-strategy-discussion-thread.html


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13935475*
> Or see if he can wrangle his way into the international scene, there is a fair amount of money in that too especially for someone of his skill. Wether they would take him is hard to know though, its a shame as i love to see the way he plays but I think in terms of professional play his past mistakes make it impossible for him to return to the scene proper :'(


he made something like 600 dollars from donations from one night of streaming on afreeca


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13936965*
> he made something like 600 dollars from donations from one night of streaming on afreeca


yes but is that sustainable? and even if it is that is not the competitive circuit. it is possible probable even that he could make a living playing star craft still but that is not the same as him competing in tourneys etc.


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;13937098*
> yes but is that sustainable? and even if it is that is not the competitive circuit. it is possible probable even that he could make a living playing star craft still but that is not the same as him competing in tourneys etc.


i never said it would be sustainable, just a little bit of interesting information. savior did try sc2, but he said he couldnt understand it, so i dont know if he would be able to become a sc2 pro and succeed

savior was a zerg player that came around when zerg were under represented and doing poorly. most of the stuff that zergs do today was created by savior, more or less. savior was the guy that played zerg killers on anti-zerg maps and still won. for me, savior is the only true bonjwa

this guy was like the chosen one in the scene, and then he made a huge, huge ****up and alot of koreans are still angry and bitter about it (especially players and coaches.) people loved him and now hated him for what he did. his stream on afreeca is highly controversial, and despite being an actual criminal he still managed to get 600 dollars in donations from people watching.

i dont think he will ever play professionally in korea again. im not sure about the foreign scene, that remains to be seen. me personally, i just cant bring myself to hate the guy. i agree with his punishment, and as a fan of sc im angry that he would **** up not only his own career but the career of others too, as well as endanger the scene. but i loved watching him play at his peak, and i love watching his streams. its just sad that someone that has done so much can ruin it all at the end

/cry


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13934471*
> One more infraction and I'm out; That's with warnings as well.
> 
> Do you see all of us don't have links to our player profiles? That's cus we've either got warnings or have been infract-ed about having external links.


Actually I never really checked. I guess since I post mostly in this thread and every once in a while in some other ones, I was able to make the slip?








*Points at sig*
Lots of link








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;13934822*
> That's why I refrain from posting too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have like 9 warnings and 4 bans on teamliquid...I don't want to risk getting banned here!
> 
> On a side note, SC2 with a mechanical keyboard is probably the best thing ever


wow, how do you/have had 9 warnings and 4 bans on TL?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke;13938047*
> i never said it would be sustainable, just a little bit of interesting information. savior did try sc2, but he said he couldnt understand it, so i dont know if he would be able to become a sc2 pro and succeed
> 
> savior was a zerg player that came around when zerg were under represented and doing poorly. most of the stuff that zergs do today was created by savior, more or less. savior was the guy that played zerg killers on anti-zerg maps and still won. for me, savior is the only true bonjwa
> 
> this guy was like the chosen one in the scene, and then he made a huge, huge ****up and alot of koreans are still angry and bitter about it (especially players and coaches.) people loved him and now hated him for what he did. his stream on afreeca is highly controversial, and despite being an actual criminal he still managed to get 600 dollars in donations from people watching.
> 
> i dont think he will ever play professionally in korea again. im not sure about the foreign scene, that remains to be seen. me personally, i just cant bring myself to hate the guy. i agree with his punishment, and as a fan of sc im angry that he would **** up not only his own career but the career of others too, as well as endanger the scene. but i loved watching him play at his peak, and i love watching his streams. its just sad that someone that has done so much can ruin it all at the end
> 
> /cry


hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but, he was one of the guys responsible for match fixing, correct? Was there something else he did? Sad that he can't play anymore, but, it was his own doing!

Edit: Final game of finals:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Moon vs Huk! What happened to July and bomber? Guessing Huk took out July(mentioned something about it on stream) and Moon got Bomber?


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13939025*
> Actually I never really checked. I guess since I post mostly in this thread and every once in a while in some other ones, I was able to make the slip?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Points at sig*
> Lots of link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow, how do you/have had 9 warnings and 4 bans on TL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but, he was one of the guys responsible for match fixing, correct? Was there something else he did? Sad that he can't play anymore, but, it was his own doing!
> 
> Edit: Final game of finals:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Moon vs Huk! What happened to July and bomber? Guessing Huk took out July(mentioned something about it on stream) and Moon got Bomber?


there was 11 or so guys that threw/fixed games, including savior. however, he also helped organise other match fixes. he even went as far as to blackmail some of the fixers to continue with the threat of exposure. really scummy thing to do =/ afaik he got one of the worst punishments, along with a fella by the name of won jongseo (who was the captain of the ogn sparkyz team.) alot of the players were from that team, and sadly they dissolved after losing all their core players.

it is indeed sad that he cant play anymore, but he still streams his first person bw games on afreeca. sadly afreeca is really tough to get access to without a korean ip and is really choppy, but some nice koreans have been restreaming it on daumplayer (which is easy to use and free), as well as some people on teamliquid restreaming that.

id also like to apologise for being a bit of a dick about sc2. id like to take the chance to get into it more after my exams but i cbf buying a pass thingy for the games, so ill probably have to check out the vods on gom


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vuashke*


there was 11 or so guys that threw/fixed games, including savior. however, he also helped organise other match fixes. he even went as far as to blackmail some of the fixers to continue with the threat of exposure. really scummy thing to do =/ afaik he got one of the worst punishments, along with a fella by the name of won jongseo (who was the captain of the ogn sparkyz team.) alot of the players were from that team, and sadly they dissolved after losing all their core players.

it is indeed sad that he cant play anymore, but he still streams his first person bw games on afreeca. sadly afreeca is really tough to get access to without a korean ip and is really choppy, but some nice koreans have been restreaming it on daumplayer (which is easy to use and free), as well as some people on teamliquid restreaming that.

*id also like to apologise for being a bit of a dick about sc2. id like to take the chance to get into it more after my exams but i cbf buying a pass thingy for the games, so ill probably have to check out the vods on gom*


oh, wow, didn't realize he even went as far as blackmailing, but, nothing we can do now. Hopefully, he'll get into SCII and start over, make it up for the fans, possibly compete in the foreign scene, etc.... but, have to wait and see.

@Bolded Don't worry about it, it happens. Whenever you get a chance to play some SCII, the channel is overclock.net. Assuming you played BW, I'm sure you'll be able to move up and get into it fairly quickly since the core/mechanics are still similar for the most part.

As for vods, well, you can watch the first game of each match for GSL for free, but, have to get a pass for the rest. MLG/NASL/IPL/DH, etc.... you can usually watch the stream(check sidebar for TL). You can also get some replays from their respective sites(day9 for DH) and there are also some matches on Youtube









Guys, new maps for season 3! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356#blog


----------



## DoomDash

That's OK. I still think BW has a lot of pros over SCII, but there are many things that I like about SCII over BW as well. Is it better than BW in every way? Hell no. I still love BW, it's just different, but still good.


----------



## BigFan

Interview with Hayward: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235674


----------



## T1nk3rb311

After playing some more matches with Zerg, I'm getting better and better. My timings are still a bit off I'm sure, but I usually go for that quick expansion with some spine crawlers to help defend and then get a ling/roach/muta and infestor army. If I'm fighting toss, just take over the colossi or tanks if terran. I'm starting to win with zerg finally.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356#blog

New maps for season 3.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13944525*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356#blog
> 
> New maps for season 3.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13940669*
> Guys, new maps for season 3! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356#blog


hehe









Green Tea AI: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235523
Builds and micro like a pro!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I like the new maps, forcing to take the gold for third and small natural chokes.


----------



## HometownHero

Spades choking in IPL Qualifier, surprise surprise.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Do we have any idea when then the next chapter of sc 1 for sc 2 will be coming out?


----------



## DoomDash

New maps look very Terran friendly, which makes me happy.

1-5 vs Jediwin, cheater!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13944538*
> Green Tea AI: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235523
> Builds and micro like a pro!


When i first played vs this AI it was terrible. Why? Because it was around when beta was still out, and the guy who made it made it for people to play a cracked version of the beta against something.


----------



## ntherblast

Any idea when s3 is going to start?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13946311*
> New maps look very Terran friendly, which makes me happy.
> 
> 1-5 vs Jediwin, cheater!


They somewhat do, given map 4, possibly 1 and 3 looks like they are long distance, so, Z favoured in that sense








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13946581*
> When i first played vs this AI it was terrible. Why? Because it was around when beta was still out, and the guy who made it made it for people to play a cracked version of the beta against something.


I see, hmm, well, if its anything like that video, it looks awesome!









Just played this game:

I guess the fun factor was, after I knew I had the game, I just sat back, tried to work on my macro and waited to see what he'll come up with. The guy even asks why I'm waiting to finish him off XD

This game I played 2 night back:

An example of what being lazy does to you









@Cory This PvsZ I played with doom several night back, pretty much my most standard PvsZ I've had. Tell me what you think about the timings since I was going for a 3wg exp and I seem to have gotten it down:

Didn't realize he double exp'd after I did and well, the rest is history.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13947240*
> Any idea when s3 is going to start?


I've been hearing start of July and Blizz did say 3 month(I think), so, end of March->end of June is season 2, my guess though. It does seem really soon though


----------



## Hanjin

I am no longer considered Korean as I suck at Starcraft 2







.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hanjin;13948721*
> I am no longer considered Korean as I suck at Starcraft 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You can be Canadian instead, we're better anyway.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;13947240*
> Any idea when s3 is going to start?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2267489003

if blizzard stick to a 3 month season as they apparently say they want to then we are due one about now but I wouldn't hold my breath ^^


----------



## mfb412

You've ALWAYS gotta love when people start bashing you for doing an all-in because you have no expansion going, yet, right next to his overlord on top of my natural, right next to my streaming 3-rax reinforcements, is a command center getting morphed into an orbital with SCV's mining away


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hanjin*


I am no longer considered Korean as I suck at Starcraft 2







.










I think you win a prize


----------



## stuiees

Is anyone else playing the the GeForce tourney? I am kind of confused on the structure. Is it best of 3 matches against each opponent? I am only seeing 1 map listed for each matchup. Anyone know whats going on?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;13949284*
> You can be Canadian instead, we're better anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

I want to play Season 3 maps so bad.

I got a warning for that post. Figures. I guess I better not post anything even if its completely censored.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's kind of ridic when there's no consistency.

Psy orgasming again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qx2-tP9jeuw#t=1445s


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13954441*


ROFL!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13957361*
> I want to play Season 3 maps so bad.
> 
> I got a warning for that post. Figures. I guess I better not post anything even if its completely censored.


That's ridiculous actually. I mean it's not like you typed that or the words are visible. I think they should increase the age to make an account(like 15 from the 13 now). This way, you won't have younger kids on here and if a bit of profanity is used, it won't have as much of an effect


----------



## CravinR1

Yeah the infractions for using the symbols is a bit much, but it is in the rules plain as day and Doom obviously knew the rules when he posted (and said he would probably get a warning for it)


----------



## DoomDash

Yep I know its my own fault for the warning, still doesn't make it right though. I'd rather see the age limit brought up for these forums.

Nice cake!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I don't wana say too much otherwise I'd get another infraction. Sometimes though I feel like I wana just say screw it and tell some of the mods off.

Because of the postal strike I don't have my sc2 keyboard. I traded my white filco tenkeyless browns for realforce 86ub. But b/c of the strike it's still not delivered.

I wana get to masters but can't play.


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13960618*
> I don't wana say too much otherwise I'd get another infraction. Sometimes though I feel like I wana just say screw it and tell some of the mods off.
> 
> Because of the postal strike I don't have my sc2 keyboard. I traded my white filco tenkeyless browns for realforce 86ub. But b/c of the strike it's still not delivered.
> 
> I wana get to masters but can't play.


Did you trade strait up?







Great deal for you if you did. I love my Realforce 86u when I play SCII. Is this your first Topre? If so, I think you will be really happy with the switch comparing it to MX boards. Maybe its just me but when I craft, I bottom out HARD and the Topre is so forgiving and feels great when you bottom out.


----------



## HandOfAnubis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;12208635*
> Yeah something like this.
> 
> Basically sac an overlord around the 5:30 mark to scout his stargate, ideally you want to get about 4 roaches and 3-4 queens with a spine for the 7:30 push, should be able to stop it quite easily as long as you keep pumping units. Just make sure the roaches stay in front of the queens and the queens shoot down the void rays.


Roaches are a must, lings against that mix would be tough... I almost always go Roaches vs. Toss now and then muta or hydra close behind. Also one spore crawler into your line or next to your hatch asap, VR's early on are so frequent now...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;13964157*
> Did you trade strait up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great deal for you if you did. I love my Realforce 86u when I play SCII. Is this your first Topre? If so, I think you will be really happy with the switch comparing it to MX boards. Maybe its just me but when I craft, I bottom out HARD and the Topre is so forgiving and feels great when you bottom out.


It's a special limited edition filco white that I traded away hence the higher value. I'm using a hhkbpro 2 atm. I don't think I'd go back to cherry switches unless there's a keyboard out there that has six or twelve macro keys on the left side of the keyboard.


----------



## Vermillion

Hey guys,
I know this is a long shot, but I got a friend thats wanting to tryout sc2. He's coming from playing Halo reach like every night and after months of convincing, he want to finally try it. The thing is I don't have a guest pass(already used mine







).

So if anyone has a spare guest pass could you send it my way? I only need 1, and ill edit this post once I get it.


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13967244*
> It's a special limited edition filco white that I traded away hence the higher value. I'm using a hhkbpro 2 atm. I don't think I'd go back to cherry switches unless there's a keyboard out there that has six or twelve macro keys on the left side of the keyboard.


What limited edition model was it? I thought the first limited edition was the "year of" keyboards. Also was it a real white? Like the white duckys? All the white filcos I came accross had a touch of creamy color and not a pure white. I am not able to play craft on my HHKB pro because of the layout, mainly the left cnrl. After a while it is probably better remapped, but you cant teach an old dog new tricks. Also the embeded function keys eliminates a whole aspect of the game for me. I personally hate macro keys on the side of keyboards. Too easy to accidently press them but that is probably more user error than the keyboards fault.


----------



## xHassassin

Whos playing in the G-Force tourney?

My group has a bunch of diamond/plat/gold and one master. I think I'm set if I start practicing a ton.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7PJRY1Ghro[/ame]


----------



## stuiees

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xHassassin;13967776*
> Whos playing in the G-Force tourney?
> 
> My group has a bunch of diamond/plat/gold and one master. I think I'm set if I start practicing a ton.


I am. I am the only masters player in my group. I think there are two diamond a platinum and then some gold-bronze. I expect to finish top 2 but who knows, this is starcraft 2... Anything can happen right?


----------



## QuadDamage

I love to watch deezer lose btw


----------



## yellowtoblerone

mmmm deezer lol

I love watching minigun destroy deezer while deezer says too ez just beforehand.


----------



## Silentness

Any of you guys see those games a couple hours ago that had SixJaxMajor and CoLMinigun playing on Shakuras and the Alter LE map?

Minigun was destroying all of Major's ghosts with that minimap feedback trick before they could really even do anything.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep I know its my own fault for the warning, still doesn't make it right though. I'd rather see the age limit brought up for these forums.

Nice cake!











I dunno, scale is off. Never realized that the queen is as big/bigger than a hatchery/nexus









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vermillion*


Hey guys,
I know this is a long shot, but I got a friend thats wanting to tryout sc2. He's coming from playing Halo reach like every night and after months of convincing, he want to finally try it. The thing is I don't have a guest pass(already used mine







).

So if anyone has a spare guest pass could you send it my way? I only need 1, and ill edit this post once I get it.


You can get a demo where you can play the first 3 missions from Blizzard's website I believe









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


Any of you guys see those games a couple hours ago that had SixJaxMajor and CoLMinigun playing on Shakuras and the Alter LE map?

Minigun was destroying all of Major's ghosts with that minimap feedback trick before they could really even do anything.


hmm, missed it but sounds interesting.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


Any of you guys see those games a couple hours ago that had SixJaxMajor and CoLMinigun playing on Shakuras and the Alter LE map?

Minigun was destroying all of Major's ghosts with that minimap feedback trick before they could really even do anything.


minimap feedback trick? What?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What mouse are you folks using?


----------



## jprovido

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13974015*
> What mouse are you folks using?


deathadder


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido;13974055*
> deathadder


I like your avatar

I use some mouse with 5 buttons. 800dpi stuff. nothing special.


----------



## DoomDash

Razer Diamondback.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I bet you will make grand master in five games if you switch to a better mouse.


----------



## Alex132

DeathAdder Black Edition, love the non-gloss.
Its a lot better than what I used to use (1 button mac-mouse) THAT was terribly hard


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Look who's playing on GOM!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Awwww yeaaaaa !!!!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

If I ever change my SC2 name again I'd change it to manofoneway.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13974390*
> If I ever change my SC2 name again I'd change it to manofoneway.


Mine would be Boxer, but that was a sick smurf.


----------



## DoomDash

Mutalisk, the counter for Thors and upgraded turrets. FG, the counter to micro.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

So Dong won. I missed the end of that match.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13974481*
> So Dong won. I missed the end of that match.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Boxer attacked, Dong countered Boxers 3rd with Muta. Boxers attack was FGed and then right clicked into, then muta cleaned up.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Terran needs a psi storm for only vs light units.


----------



## Wishmaker

Any news on the expansion?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker;13974756*
> Any news on the expansion?


Nothing new.


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13974015*
> What mouse are you folks using?


Logitech MX518 rev 2 at 1800 DPI


----------



## scaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13974015*
> What mouse are you folks using?


Logitech G500


----------



## HometownHero

Razer mamba


----------



## Dr216

g9x


----------



## Lazorbeam

Stock microsoft mouse?


----------



## yks

I disgust myself sometimes with how good I am.

ps. Deathadder, yellow.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13977462*
> I disgust myself sometimes with how good I am.
> 
> ps. Deathadder, yellow.


So good at being in Diamond. Slightly above average.


----------



## yks

Nah son. Sick regardless.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Stock microsoft mouse?


FTW


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That's like low plat/high gold in Korea. You real proud of yourself.


----------



## Ruckol1

hey guys. missed u


----------



## DoomDash

First round of the Geforce Tournament was a no show. The rest of the group is all Diamonds at best, no shows, or byes.







.

Also, I beat this guy this season:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...62405?page=1#7

  
 You Tube  



 
But he is 1700~+ now ( I'm only 1400 now ), that makes me feel bad that I am so far off now.


----------



## the.FBI

I am having issues getting Starcraft 2 to use crossfire, is this a known issue and is there any fix?


----------



## BigFan

^^ Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix on Blizzard's side. My guess would be to try the latest drivers









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I disgust myself sometimes with how good I am.

ps. Deathadder, yellow.


hehe, we keep hearing this, but, we just don't see it









Mouse? Some 5-6 year old microsoft mouse


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


If I ever change my SC2 name again I'd change it to manofoneway.


I played someone in 2v2 masters who was named manofoneway, thought it was boxer for a moment, then realized it wasn't. Derp, got excited for no reason.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


What mouse are you folks using?


R.A.T.7

First guy in my geforce CEVO tourney group was a low masters zerg whom I beat, every one else is sub diamond except for one player, nrgmute. He's about 200 points higher than me on ladder and he's P, think I can do it


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13983565*
> ^^ Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix on Blizzard's side. My guess would be to try the latest drivers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hehe, we keep hearing this, but, we just don't see it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mouse? Some 5-6 year old microsoft mouse


Alright, well I have the latest drivers and I still get about 50 fps with everything maxed on a single card.


----------



## Twister773

Used to play starcraft 1 and bw years ago! Just bought starcraft 2 and am just about done with the update. Can't wait to play


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;13983754*
> Alright, well I have the latest drivers and I still get about 50 fps with everything maxed on a single card.


Nice, I do recall there was someone on here that was running the game in crossfire, i think it was the member that was originally called modern warfare but has now changed his name to hexen or something. If you can find him and pm him about the details, etc.... then I think you can fix your crossfire issue








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twister773;13984747*
> Used to play starcraft 1 and bw years ago! Just bought starcraft 2 and am just about done with the update. Can't wait to play


Nice, I'll warn you though. It's not BW







It has similarity but the new units, ability to use control groups/select like 50 units at once, etc.... make it a totally different game. Join the overclock.net channel as well, I'm sure you can find someone to custom with!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vdek;13983602*
> First guy in my geforce CEVO tourney group was a low masters zerg whom I beat, every one else is sub diamond except for one player, nrgmute. He's about 200 points higher than me on ladder and he's P, think I can do it


Tough break. I am not even sure I will have to fight any Masters in my pool. Good luck.


----------



## Twister773

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;13985132*
> Nice, I do recall there was someone on here that was running the game in crossfire, i think it was the member that was originally called modern warfare but has now changed his name to hexen or something. If you can find him and pm him about the details, etc.... then I think you can fix your crossfire issue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, I'll warn you though. It's not BW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has similarity but the new units, ability to use control groups/select like 50 units at once, etc.... make it a totally different game. Join the overclock.net channel as well, I'm sure you can find someone to custom with!


haha thanks, how do i join the overclock.net channel? is it in the game somewhere? thanks!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

From what it looks like atm, nobody's using a mouse with a good sensor, that includes me (excluding the deathadd one of course).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twister773;13986174*
> haha thanks, how do i join the overclock.net channel? is it in the game somewhere? thanks!


It's the button on the bottom right of battle.net. Channel is "overclock.net" just like that.

For Terran's!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=236910


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13985237*
> Tough break. I am not even sure I will have to fight any Masters in my pool. Good luck.


Top 2 advance in the group, so I'll be fine if I win or lose.


----------



## DoomDash

Thought I'd share my current top 5 favorite pros per race. Feel free to add your own lists.

Terran:
1 - SlayerS_Boxer
2 - SlayerS_MMA
3 - MarineKingPrime
4 - Thorzain
5 - FXOqxc

Zerg:
1 - Morrow
2 - Sheth
3 - Sen
4 - Losira
5 - July

Protoss:
1 - Slayers_Alicia
2 - White-Ra
3 - HuK
4 - Naniwa
5 - MC


----------



## yks

No particular order:

Protoss:
1. Alicia
2. MC
3. zerO
4. HuK
5. InControl or Naniwa

Terran:
1. MMA
2. MVP
3. Thorzain
4. MKP
5. Select

Zerg:
1. Losira
2. July
3. Moon
4. Nestea
5. Sen


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13986585*
> From what it looks like atm, nobody's using a mouse with a good sensor, that includes me (excluding the deathadd one of course).


and the mx518.....and the ancient microsoft ones could be first gen inteli those are some of the best sensors ever. not that any of the others are particularly bad, how a mouse feels in your hands more important than the sensor unless your a professional fps player.


----------



## DoomDash

I want to try the Razers laser + sensor.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I wonder how they gonna avoid another z axis issue with that.

Some of these dreamhack games are amazing:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBOvHomeoME[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQd63FBxUU[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2721583050#1
Hope you didn't ladder last night.


----------



## murderbymodem

I got 2-0'd in my first Geforce match. I'm only rank 8 Gold league, my opponent was in Diamond. The first game he did a Roach/Ling all-in, the second game he 6 pooled me.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is there an updated database of the win/loss ratios by race in the pro level tournaments?


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13995970*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2721583050#1
> Hope you didn't ladder last night.


Glad I noticed after 3 games. I went 2-1, but it sucks that they aren't awarding points. I don't think it would be that hard to do.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13996228*
> Is there an updated database of the win/loss ratios by race in the pro level tournaments?


No not that I know, but I know outside of Korea Terran is below 50% in DH, NASL, and MLG.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;13996149*
> I got 2-0'd in my first Geforce match. I'm only rank 8 Gold league, my opponent was in Diamond. The first game he did a Roach/Ling all-in, the second game he 6 pooled me.


Sorry to hear. My first was a no show, and the rest are all at least one division below me ( masters ).


----------



## yancyv8

Okay so I bought this game ONLY because I happened to notice its recorded and put on g4tv and thought it might be cool but mannnnnn was I wrong. I was never really into strategy games but this game....I really don't see what people find amusing about this. Sure the cut scenes look pretty damn good but when actually playing the graphics are terrible in my opinion. Maybe its because I'm not so good at it but can someone help me as to why the $50 wasn't a total waste of money?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yancyv8;13996401*
> Okay so I bought this game ONLY because I happened to notice its recorded and put on g4tv and thought it might be cool but mannnnnn was I wrong. I was never really into strategy games but this game....I really don't see what people find amusing about this. Sure the cut scenes look pretty damn good but when actually playing the graphics are terrible in my opinion. Maybe its because I'm not so good at it but can someone help me as to why the $50 wasn't a total waste of money?


I don't mind the graphics, so I guess I just can't comment on that. Have you actually finished the single player?

The main thing about SCII is pretty much the bottomless pit of competition and an extremely high skill set that you can never max. So much to do with this game, even as an observer.

But if you don't like it you don't like it. I find it amazing because I am a competitive guy and naturally pretty good at games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13996448*
> I don't mind the graphics, so I guess I just can't comment on that. Have you actually finished the single player?
> 
> The main thing about SCII is pretty much the bottomless pit of competition and an extremely high skill set that you can never max. So much to do with this game, even as an observer.
> 
> But if you don't like it you don't like it. I find it amazing because I am a competitive guy and naturally pretty good at games.


Pretty much this. Actually, I think the graphics are great when maxed out so I don't really see what the issue is. Some of the cut scenes at the start could've used some more work(Raynor's glass looks horrible, etc....) but overall, in game graphics are awesome IMO. SP is great to play to become familiar with the game and have some fun getting achievements. As for MP, it's really where the game shines. As mentioned, you will NEVER reach max skill in the game. Every opponent you face plays differently which makes for a variation in games


----------



## DoomDash

Boxers gift to Yellows retirement







.


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yancyv8;13996401*
> Okay so I bought this game ONLY because I happened to notice its recorded and put on g4tv and thought it might be cool but mannnnnn was I wrong. I was never really into strategy games but this game....I really don't see what people find amusing about this. Sure the cut scenes look pretty damn good but when actually playing the graphics are terrible in my opinion. Maybe its because I'm not so good at it but can someone help me as to why the $50 wasn't a total waste of money?


I'm sorry but for an RTS game SC2 is one of the best looking games out there.


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13998541*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boxers gift to Yellows retirement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I kind of don't like how the brood war greatest players are having such a hard time converting to SC2. It is annoying knowing a guy like Boxer will get owned hard by Idra in SC2 but I guess that is just how the cookie crumble now. Idra is a beast with zerg lately. I was annoyed that Bisu didn't come in and dominate the Protoss being a fan of his games in brood war.


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer beat Idra 2-0 more recently than idra has beat him.


----------



## yks

Yeah! Boxer knocked Idra out of the NASL Grand Brackets.

And Boxer's raising his son, MMA.


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13998707*
> 
> And Boxer's raising his son, MMA.


You mean the guy who siege tank kills his own command centers?







. Lucky Idra is a douche and quits early in games. lol

How do you like pro-tools? I didn't like it all that much and stick to Reason 5.0 .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;13998684*
> Boxer beat Idra 2-0 more recently than idra has beat him.


Can't recall these games. What competition was this? . I know Boxer couldn't push through Thelittleones terran game either. Maybe things have changed. Been busy lately, I gotta catch up on the latest games.


----------



## slytown

CombatEx v. Deezer showmatch tonight and 3-hour skype conversation with iNcontrol, CatZ, Kyle, minigun, Pride, etc. on Steve Bonnell's stream. So epic!!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;13998736*
> CombatEx v. Deezer showmatch tonight and 3-hour skype conversation with iNcontrol, CatZ, Kyle, minigun, Pride, etc. on Steve Bonnell's stream. So epic!!


I'M THE QUEEN, BRO.

My mixture of Deezer and CombatEx


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;13998707*
> Yeah! Boxer knocked Idra out of the NASL Grand Brackets.
> 
> And Boxer's raising his son, MMA.


They're not really related right...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13998730*
> You mean the guy who siege tank kills his own command centers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Lucky Idra is a douche and quits early in games. lol
> 
> How do you like pro-tools? I didn't like it all that much and stick to Reason 5.0 .
> 
> Can't recall these games. What competition was this? . I know Boxer couldn't push through Thelittleones terran game either. Maybe things have changed. Been busy lately, I gotta catch up on the latest games.


As yks mentioned, it was to get into the NASL semifinals brackets and Boxer knocked idra out. Boxer has been doing fine outside of Korea really... no wins yet but he does OK.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13998944*
> They're not really related right...


No, but Boxer has been his mentor for a long time , so they call him the son of Boxer.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13998944*
> They're not really related right...


Nah. MMA just has Boxer's old BW style, so people call him the Son of Boxer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13998730*
> You mean the guy who siege tank kills his own command centers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Lucky Idra is a douche and quits early in games. lol
> 
> How do you like pro-tools? I didn't like it all that much and stick to Reason 5.0 .
> 
> Can't recall these games. What competition was this? . I know Boxer couldn't push through Thelittleones terran game either. Maybe things have changed. Been busy lately, I gotta catch up on the latest games.


NASL.

And I like Pro-Tools. I'm not good at making beats so I don't use Reason.


----------



## slytown

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I'M THE QUEEN, BRO.

My mixture of Deezer and CombatEx


I like it man.

Also, someone in the chat came up with the name for CombatEx's showmatch series: Queen of the Hill.

That's fried gold!


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## love9sick

LoL zerg keyboard QQ.


----------



## yks

I aint gonna lie. Thorzain looks really cute in that picture.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn, 18 muta just walked into a 3 base terran going mech and magic boxed like 7 thors and won the game. Muta, the counter for Thors.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Damn, 18 muta just walked into a 3 base terran going mech and magic boxed like 7 thors and won the game. Muta, the counter for Thors.


I could never understand why meching terrans don't ever add a few marines in their unit composition. A few marines will do wonders for your thors as the zerg can focus fire them without taking splash damage from the thors.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Need more than 104 just to qq. Extra macro keys please.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I could never understand why meching terrans don't ever add a few marines in their unit composition. A few marines will do wonders for your thors as the zerg can focus fire them without taking splash damage from the thors.


I add a few marines but generally they have no upgrades then.


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Damn, 18 muta just walked into a 3 base terran going mech and magic boxed like 7 thors and won the game. Muta, the counter for Thors.


I thought Thors raped Mutas? They seemed to have like a splash damage as of late.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing*


I thought Thors raped Mutas? They seemed to have like a splash damage as of late.


You need a ton of Thor's to beat magic box mutas or support. Thor's in small numbers will get owned by magic box mutas.

I just got Nevermind aka Atheism on 1v1 ladder LOL. That's 3 people from oc.net now.


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14003901*
> You need a ton of Thor's to beat magic box mutas or support. Thor's in small numbers will get owned by magic box mutas.
> 
> I just got Nevermind aka Atheism on 1v1 ladder LOL. That's 3 people from Overclock.net now.


This may sound dumb. But what is magic box mutas?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

basically spreading out the mutas so they don't bunch up while flying on top of thors.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing;14008245*
> This may sound dumb. But what is magic box mutas?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNBQTt0dVU[/ame]


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Magic box those void rays!


----------



## DoomDash

Damn that last game was STOLEN.


----------



## 1337LutZ

1337Lutz
my account: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/1249291/LutZ


----------



## dropkickninja

Clutch win by Huk I would have gg'd easily. Naniwa should have seen it coming though.


----------



## rurushu

Grats HuK! He seems to be on a roll lately. I hope he keeps it up.


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin seem familiar? Except this guy didn't try and fight it.


----------



## Mwarren

Ha I've beaten him on the ladder before.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah that was my 2nd time beating him.


----------



## yks

You Tube  



 

oh carmac.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That has to be funniest thing ever

Intense pvz

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBhCDDtNkz8[/ame]


----------



## WALSRU

Congrats to Huk. Moon may have slipped at a critical moment but imo the win is no less deserved. GREAT Protoss timing and DT use. That was fun to watch a non-korean take it.


----------



## DoomDash

I was hoping Nani would win. He will crush huk after his stay in Korea I called it now.


----------



## WALSRU

You're probably right. Team Liquid must be training hard though.

I loved watching July, but dang Mutaling every game >_<


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


You're probably right. Team Liquid must be training hard though.

I loved watching July, but dang Mutaling every game >_<


Well, if mutaling works, why not?


----------



## WALSRU

It worked until it didn't!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I was hoping Nani would win. He will crush huk after his stay in Korea I called it now.


Never. Canadians are better at sc2 than Swedish players, just like hockey.


----------



## rhed5

lol canadians


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Never. Canadians are better at sc2 than Swedish players, just like hockey.


w00t!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Never. Canadians are better at sc2 than Swedish players, just like hockey.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


w00t!


YES! HuK >> Naniwa, nuff said!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


lol canadians


----------



## yks

The video I posted deserves more attention~! jk.

HuK has always been better than Naniwa since Beta. If you look @ pvz/pvt


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The video I posted deserves more attention~! jk.

HuK has always been better than Naniwa since Beta. If you look @ pvz/pvt


He started earlier, and he played 100000000x more. Nani is much more impressive for the time played. HuK barely even won that... I would say it was pretty lucky even.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


lol canadians


x2


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'll put money on Naniwa instead of Huk if he changes his name to something people can understand and draw probe hearts in every game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14035937*
> The video I posted deserves more attention~! jk.
> 
> HuK has always been better than Naniwa since Beta. If you look @ pvz/pvt


I gave it attention. That's already enough.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTPiNiXteso[/ame]

"If I got frustrated playing.. I just get more angry, and more angry; I'll just play more, and be like, no I have to get better; Who is this scrub that just beat me" - how I feel after playing Jedwin:


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14036097*
> He started earlier, and he played 100000000x more. Nani is much more impressive for the time played. HuK barely even won that... I would say it was pretty lucky even.
> 
> x2


That's just cause its HuK's weak matchup, everyone has a weak matchup. I mean look @ someone like Inca who's like ~80%+ in PvP and is like ~40% elsewhere.

When I look at Huk and Nani and I look at overall percents, I'm like damn. Sometimes I feel HuK gets the PoltPrime treatment. Polt has like 100% winrate against Protoss [10-0] (beating even MC - twice, 4-0) in GSL but doesn't enough recognition.


----------



## DoomDash

HuK's weakest match up WAS PvP. He beat MC, who's best match up was PvP. How can you say that now?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Beginner's LuK probly.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14036323*
> HuK's weakest match up WAS PvP. He beat MC, who's best match up was PvP. How can you say that now?


cause it still IS his weakest matchup. just cause he beat MC and Nani doesn't automatically make it his strongest matchup.

In Korea, HuK's PVP is 36% (4-7)
Internationally, it's 65% (61-32) [HSC included where he beat MC/Nani]

Obviously he's gotten better, I mean that's why you train, to get better. But it's still his weakest matchup statwise.

He even admits PVP is his weakest.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think so anymore. I used to, but it seems as strong as his other match ups now. I am not really that impressed by him over all though. He has terrible decision making at times.


----------



## yks

No doubt, he has poor decision making. Good thing he has top 3 control in the world. hahaha


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## l337sft

I had so much fun with this game.







http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/7274


----------



## joe50000

I love huk.

who the hell mothership rushes in an MLG tourney? and then goes on to WIN?

who else can get Idra to rage quit during a live cast tourney? and then rage at him in the following game?

seriously, the guy is the man. He was #1 in the US for the longest time and he's grandmaster on the Korean server.

He only appears to have bad decision making because in tourneys, people play really fast to win; they can't afford to always play heavy macro-style games that drag on and on. Scouting is another resource, so the time/money it takes to produce overseers, sacrificial overlords, obs, scans, hallucinations, etc can put you behind very quickly. So many players just end up playing totally blind. Keep in mind that when a game is casted, it makes the players seem like they know more than they actually do - but they don't. Most of the time, builds just blind counter each other. Also, the ladder to the top of tourneys actually leads to a more random outcome for the winner: e.g. player 1 can beat player 2, player 2 can beat player 3, but player 3 can beat player 1. So the matchups can really favor one player winning the tourney even though he's clearly outmatched by other players.


----------



## l337sft

Yea, i love huk, i was literally mind blown when i saw him playing during Dreamhack, easily one of my favorite players, i wish i had HuKs micro

Is anyone here on OCN gunna be in the Us Craftcup?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *joe50000*


I love huk.

who the hell mothership rushes in an MLG tourney? and then goes on to WIN?

who else can get Idra to rage quit during a live cast tourney? and then rage at him in the following game?

seriously, the guy is the man. He was #1 in the US for the longest time and he's grandmaster on the Korean server.

He only appears to have bad decision making because in tourneys, people play really fast to win; they can't afford to always play heavy macro-style games that drag on and on. Scouting is another resource, so the time/money it takes to produce overseers, sacrificial overlords, obs, scans, hallucinations, etc can put you behind very quickly. So many players just end up playing totally blind. Keep in mind that when a game is casted, it makes the players seem like they know more than they actually do - but they don't. Most of the time, builds just blind counter each other. Also, the ladder to the top of tourneys actually leads to a more random outcome for the winner: e.g. player 1 can beat player 2, player 2 can beat player 3, but player 3 can beat player 1. So the matchups can really favor one player winning the tourney even though he's clearly outmatched by other players.


No offense but your comment about how most of the time top players end up playing blind is ridiculous. I very seldom see one player win due to their build order being superior as most games come down to who has better micro/macro. We hardly ever see pro players try weird builds that when left unscouted will result in an auto loss for the other player.

Not scouting is just absurd and the player that doesn't scout deserves to lose because they're playing too greedy and playing blind is always a bad thing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


I very seldom see one player win due to their build order being superior as most games come down to who has better micro/macro. We hardly ever see pro players try weird builds that when left unscouted will result in an auto loss for the other player.

Not scouting is just absurd and the player that doesn't scout deserves to lose because they're playing too greedy and playing blind is always a bad thing.


Agree, every game I've watched, the opponents usually scout early and then later on. I don't believe I've ever seen them play as blindly as you meant


----------



## dcloud

Man, what a terrible day of SC for me today. I'm losing a lot of games....macro, micro not up to par, encountered some pretty douchey bad mannered people on the ladder.

How do you guys get past things like that?


----------



## murderbymodem

I just played a ZvZ against another Gold player. All he made for the whole 30 minute game was Zerglings and Banelings. I went Roach right from the beginning and easily survived his early mass Zergling attacks with Roaches, Spines and Queens. I eventually got Infestors and started Fungaling large groups of Zerglings that he tried running into my base with. I tried making Banelings to counter the mass mass Zergling/Baneling he was doing, but he would just run them away and sacrifice 3 Zerglings at a time to kill my Banelings (my Baneling control wasn't that great)

He was keeping me completely pinned on 2 bases since I didn't want to move out and get surrounded by all the speedlings, so I just went Muta. I got a good 20 so of them out, and killed all of the drones at all 3 of his bases. He asked me how many bases I was on, and I told him my Third has JUST finished as I attacked with the Muta.

He asked me how I made all of that stuff off of only two bases, then gged. He was really manner about it too, he wasn't mad at all. He told me Well Played.

I wanted to ask him how he didn't make anything more than Ling/Bling off of three bases


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dcloud*


Man, what a terrible day of SC for me today. I'm losing a lot of games....macro, micro not up to par, encountered some pretty douchey bad mannered people on the ladder.

How do you guys get past things like that?


Simple, I don't ladder!








On a more serious note, I don't get much BM. Maybe players in gold don't BM as much? I only got BM'd once in silver and I think once in my past 200 games


----------



## BountyHead

Yeah bm is pretty non existant for me in silver, i mean what grounds does any sub master league player really have? Oh I only had less then 1000 unspent minerals you had 1500 lrn 2 macro?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


----------



## l337sft

I dont get BM much either, i used to get really angry, but now that im a lot better i understand that its only my fault, and its just " onto the next one" lol


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Yeah bm is pretty non existant for me in silver, i mean what grounds does any sub master league player really have? Oh I only had less then 1000 unspent minerals you had 1500 lrn 2 macro?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


my favourite is when someone cheeses and you scout it and perfectly counter and his cheese does nothing and he calls you a no skill noob









most annoying one of those i had the guy proxy raxed i killed the scv building it and a whole lotta lings killed most of this starting workers he just lifts off and heads to the island on scrap station and builds nothing but missile turrets non stop constantly hurling abuse at me pausing the game etc etc while i have to make my way upto broods so i can actually kill him ><


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dcloud*


Man, what a terrible day of SC for me today. I'm losing a lot of games....macro, micro not up to par, encountered some pretty douchey bad mannered people on the ladder.

How do you guys get past things like that?


Bad day? Happens with any game in the world. Even dice-throwing and card games.

The BM is no big deal. Just take pride in beating them. I enjoy being condescending to jerks if I win.

"Hey man GG, if you need any tips just ask."
"You played well, but make more workers and press hotkeys next time".


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


Bad day? Happens with any game in the world. Even dice-throwing and card games.

The BM is no big deal. Just take pride in beating them. I enjoy being condescending to jerks if I win.

"Hey man GG, if you need any tips just ask."
"You played well, but make more workers and press hotkeys next time".


Me 2, but I also BM.


----------



## Mwarren

Once you get into diamond/masters you will encounter much more BM. About half of my wins result in the other player bming somehow. I cant blame them though, I get frustrated easily myself.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Once you get into diamond/masters you will encounter much more BM. About half of my wins result in the other player bming somehow. I cant blame them though, I get frustrated easily myself.


That's an understatement.


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That's an understatement.










Oh definitely is...

I proxy hatched a Toss on Tal'Darim because he tried to forge expand... When the roaches came out in his base it was a nonstop BM fest, going on for about 20 minutes after the game ended until I had to block communication with him.


----------



## yks

I am all too familiar with your inbase proxy hatches, Vdek!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Guess he's never seen it before, or a natural hatch spine push.


----------



## QuadDamage

Yeah I keep losing in plat, I really think I'm a good gold player and a ****ty plat. I don't muti task well, If I can macro it's over but I tend to lose to rushes and I tend to win if it goes late game, I like to run 3 base or even more


----------



## DoomDash

Watch his nats life very carefully.


----------



## CravinR1

Doom post some games of you getting owned. Love how you only post the games of you doing well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14048776*
> Doom post some games of you getting owned. Love how you only post the games of you doing well.


Really are you surprised I don't post games of myself getting owned? I have posted games of me losing on here but yeah it's not often. Losing isn't cool







.


----------



## murderbymodem




----------



## DoomDash

Mine looks like that a lot.


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm just mad because a few of those losses (and wins) are Silver league players. My MMR must be **** or something, because I feel like if my MMR was good I should only be playing Gold or Plat players (I'm rank 9 Gold atm)

It's my goal to be at least Diamond by the end of summer, and I feel like it isn't going very well.


----------



## Ryko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14048259*
> Watch his nats life very carefully.


just watched the replay, it was very nice


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14043677*
> my favourite is when someone cheeses and you scout it and perfectly counter and his cheese does nothing and he calls you a no skill noob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> most annoying one of those i had the guy proxy raxed i killed the scv building it and a whole lotta lings killed most of this starting workers he just lifts off and heads to the island on scrap station and builds nothing but missile turrets non stop constantly hurling abuse at me pausing the game etc etc while i have to make my way upto broods so i can actually kill him ><


Aye, that's quite good. some guy tried to 4 gate me, i barely stopped his push with 5 marauders and 3 marines and SCV's, counter pushed after about 2 minutes with 8 total marauders and marines whilst expanding behind it, immediatelly after i got into his base and killed his robo, he immediatelly typed "lol MM lotsa skill bro" and left


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14048995*
> I'm just mad because a few of those losses (and wins) are Silver league players. My MMR must be **** or something, because I feel like if my MMR was good I should only be playing Gold or Plat players (I'm rank 9 Gold atm)
> 
> It's my goal to be at least Diamond by the end of summer, and I feel like it isn't going very well.


give yourself some credit, I've been roflstomped back when I was in silver by a bronze. He forge FE'd on XC and I kept harassing the exp but just couldn't do enough damage or take it out so withdrew to micro. He took a third while I was still on my 2nd and rolled me








Funny thing is, he only had like 4-5 games played or something, so, pretty new. Of course, that doesn't take into account his past history(played BW? another account?)









Having said that, my match history doesn't look as bad as yours does
/spills gas on fire


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryko;14049051*
> just watched the replay, it was very nice


Truth be told I played that really sloppy, but lucky for me the hatch thing got me way ahead.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14048995*
> I'm just mad because a few of those losses (and wins) are Silver league players. My MMR must be **** or something, because I feel like if my MMR was good I should only be playing Gold or Plat players (I'm rank 9 Gold atm)
> 
> It's my goal to be at least Diamond by the end of summer, and I feel like it isn't going very well.


Hard work and dedication you'll get there.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Would've been even more anger inducing if you'd move that marine/tank to the other ride to bombard the fourth expansion. He had no vision except for overlord.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14046606*
> I am all too familiar with your inbase proxy hatches, Vdek!


Replay

That was the game


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Even though I saw that done the first time when I was speccing one of your games when you did it, I still had that done to me at least twice in the main, and once in the natural for spine push during ladder.


----------



## CravinR1

OK you guys probably won't watch this but I made a video of 2 zergs double 7 pooling me and a friend. I was zerg he was toss. I think its pretty good and well played

  
 You Tube


----------



## yks

Just played a ~40minute 4v4 with Jediwin, freaking ANOTHER mine-out game, only like 1base w/ minerals left.

14 templars and ~10 Infestors FTW.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14051709*
> OK you guys probably won't watch this but I made a video of 2 zergs double 7 pooling me and a friend. I was zerg he was toss. I think its pretty good and well played


Why not show games of you losing? Seems like you only show games of you doing good.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14056128*
> Why not show games of you losing? Seems like you only show games of you doing good.


I don't brag constantly and post replays and screens of people raging. And I don't brag 6 posts on every page of the thread.

But if it makes you feel better to throw that comment at me cause you know its true about yourself then good for you lol


----------



## DoomDash

You mad? God forbid I show my enjoyment for winning games. You sound jelly. Maybe I'll post some replays of me winning 2v2's because that's the real deal.

Believe it or not some people actually like my replays, especially aspiring Terrans. One person already commented who enjoyed that last game, and I've got plenty of PM's asking for help.

Also I admit I'm cocky but I don't care, deal with it.


----------



## falco216

Why would someone post a replay of themselves losing unless they were trying to get help?

-_-


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;14056404*
> Why would someone post a replay of themselves losing unless they were trying to get help?
> 
> -_-


Hey, stop being logical.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14056252*
> You mad? God forbid I show my enjoyment for winning games. You sound jelly. Maybe I'll post some replays of me winning 2v2's because that's the real deal.
> 
> Believe it or not some people actually like my replays, especially aspiring Terrans. One person already commented who enjoyed that last game, and I've got plenty of PM's asking for help.
> 
> Also I admit I'm cocky but I don't care, deal with it.


You remind me of the masters leaguers that troll lower leagues to feel superior. I'm not jelly cause I actually have a life. And when I do well in a game I don't come in here and post 6 threads every half hour to tell every game I won and how great I am .................. but hey if you have no other life then this game good for you.

As far as the 2v2 or 3v3 I don't play to show how great I am. I get on skype or vent and play with friends. I don't care if I'm super awesome at SC2 lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Cool bro. I love games and have a passion for them, and I like to be good at them. I'm glad that you don't feel the same way and you want to take a dump on other peoples parades because of it. It's pretty obvious you are in some way shape or forum jealous, because if you weren't you have no problem just leaving it alone. I'm glad that you feel your superior because you claim you have a life outside this game, well guess what I do too, and I'm still masters. It's funny you take what I do as serious bragging or e-peen stuff because its nothing like that and I'm sad you feel that way. I am confident in everything I do, its a nice quality to have







. I play this game for fun just like you, and I am not on here trying to show my superiority outside of SCII like you. Maybe you should look in the mirror and see who is being the real douche.

Also you are very much exaggerating what I do. I feel so bad for you that you are so threatened by it.

*PS: State of the Game returns next week!*


----------



## Fortunex

Doom wins imo.


----------



## WALSRU

Internet rule # 145:

Everyone worse than you is a noob
Everyone better than you has no life


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;14056404*
> Why would someone post a replay of themselves losing unless they were trying to get help?
> 
> -_-


A quarter of the replays I save are losses. Even if I played well and lost, the games can be... GASP... GOOD!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU;14056985*
> Internet rule # 145:
> 
> Everyone worse than you is a noob
> Everyone better than you has no life


So true.


----------



## yks

Just be like me, I mean, all I do is win.


----------



## tarik_4

I don't know if this is the right place to post but I get pretty horrible performance during the cut scenes (single player compaign) with shaders on ultra + indirect shadows on and post processing on ultra.

Is this an issue with ATI 6000 series or something?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tarik_4;14058296*
> I don't know if this is the right place to post but I get pretty horrible performance during the cut scenes (single player compaign) with shaders on ultra + indirect shadows on and post processing on ultra.
> 
> Is this an issue with ATI 6000 series or something?


mine do something weird too, i think it has to do with crossfire but im not sure.


----------



## vdek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14056544*
> You remind me of the masters leaguers that troll lower leagues to feel superior. I'm not jelly cause I actually have a life. And when I do well in a game I don't come in here and post 6 threads every half hour to tell every game I won and how great I am .................. but hey if you have no other life then this game good for you.
> 
> As far as the 2v2 or 3v3 I don't play to show how great I am. I get on skype or vent and play with friends. I don't care if I'm super awesome at SC2 lol.


You mad bro? Have some


----------



## QuadDamage

Cool story bro tell me more!


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ I'm Plat and I will never make grandmaster how can I live with myself haha


----------



## DoomDash

Chances are I will not make it either.


----------



## Mwarren

I'll make it before the end of August. Right now its mainly about fixing the small things for me, very subtle things that make a huge difference at my level.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Why not show games of you losing? Seems like you only show games of you doing good.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I don't brag constantly and post replays and screens of people raging. And I don't brag 6 posts on every page of the thread.

But if it makes you feel better to throw that comment at me cause you know its true about yourself then good for you lol










Guys, please! Let's not turn this thread into a mud slinging fest, otherwise, I'll have to ......
.....
.....
.....
.....
.....
point you to the door 
<<<<------------
















Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


Why would someone post a replay of themselves losing unless they were trying to get help?

-_-


True, true. I used to post those all the time







but I've since improved my game to a point where posting them won't help me much, just need more practice to work on my mistakes









Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


Internet rule # 145:

Everyone worse than you is a noob
Everyone better than you has no life











haha, so true! Forgot one thing, what about "Everyone who is the same as you"?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Chances are I will not make it either.


meh, you probably could since you were dedicating the time for it, but, you still have more work to do to get to that level. That and you need the same dedication you had in season 1 and more than several games a day


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Chances are I will not make it either.


Honestly, it's all about timing (grabbing the spot when one of the Grandmasters gets booted for inactivity), as well as just playing a lot.

If scrubs like CombatEX and Deezer can be Grandmasters, I'm confident any Master League player can.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Honestly, it's all about timing (grabbing the spot when one of the Grandmasters gets booted for inactivity), as well as just playing a lot.

If scrubs like CombatEX and Deezer can be Grandmasters, I'm confident any Master League player can.


lol, I'm sure CombatEX and Deezer can play better than you think


----------



## tarik_4

This talk about CombatEX and Deezer is reminding me of the Destiny stream the other day in which they were all on skype arguing until 5 AM. CombatEX is such a douche! lol.


----------



## yks

I heard Deezer can actually macro.


----------



## HarrisLam

WOW
i can't believe this
i was bronze last season in NA, i played 1 placement against a top 8 gold and won, then im plat?

i suppose the MMR system has something to do with play frequency, maybe the fewer games i play, the easier the MMR might have a drastic change

EDIT: oh actually ive won 3 times...all 3 of them were placements though


----------



## yellowtoblerone

SICK
SICK
SICK PVZ atm, Sage vs Sirius on Taldarim.

Sage just took out SC with one of the best contains in PvT ever. Starved SC out on one base.

This guy is amazing.


----------



## DoomDash

Sage


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



all kills fOu, impressive



PS I hate P contains. Underrated.


----------



## Vuashke

combat-ex lol, i remember that dummy from brood war


----------



## rhed5

Played a 90 minute SOTIS game. Hero kills down from 10 to 35 at like 20 minutes w/ a seriously fed alien who was at something like 14-0 k/d. Turtled with perfect discipline till we eventually came back and they rage quit. One of the most satisfying games ever. discirprine for the win


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/06/14/sc2-101-eglzgamer-pro-build-order-tvp

I'm going to learn this. <3 LZGamer.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/06/14...uild-order-tvp

I'm going to learn this. <3 LZGamer.


You know LzGamer has switched to Z, right?









Season 2 lock on July 5th, season 3 on July 19th! 
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3031252#blog


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah he told me Z late game was too OP when we trained, so I guess he thought if you can't beat em, join em.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah he told me Z late game was too OP when we trained, so I guess he thought if you can't beat em, join em.


hehe, a true pro


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, I'm sure CombatEX and Deezer can play better than you think










Their play isn't what I'm talking about, it's the fact that they are both incredibly stupid people, at least that's what I've gathered from listening to them talk.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *tarik_4*


This talk about CombatEX and Deezer is reminding me of the Destiny stream the other day in which they were all on skype arguing until 5 AM. CombatEX is such a douche! lol.


I stayed up to watch it all. It was too hilarious to miss. The worst part was that I work on weekends, so I was super tired the next day, but it was worth it.

BTW, CombatEx vs. ColCatz showmatch tonight


----------



## stuiees

Hey guys I just wanted to let anyone know that might be interested:

I have been offering free protoss coaching for the past week and a half to anyone who wants it. I had originally promoted this on reddit/r/starcraft and so far have got a great response. I want to offer the same opportunity to anyone on OCN. I am a masters level protoss, but this is the first RTS game I have taken seriously. Previous to taking interest in SC2, I was a semi-pro cs 1.6 player. I have played for several teams both online and lan, some more successful than others but it was time for a new game after 8 years of pure dedication. Basically I know what it takes to play games at the highest levels, and approach gaming with this mentality. Ya, I play because its fun, but its only fun if your good at it IMO. I haven't been able to put as much time into starcraft as I was able to with 1.6 because of work and just more responsibilities in general that comes with going from a teenager on to your twenties. I am used to maintaining a practice schedule from playing cs 1.6 but it does not really translate the same to starcraft 2. I find myself becoming fatigued after laddering for just a short period of time. I don't really know why, but I have found that coaching not only benefits my students, but is also a kind of way for me to sit back and analyze the game without having to actually play myself. So far I have coached levels from bronze to diamond and everyone seems have been able to benefit from each of the lessons given. This will probably be most beneficial to players between the silver to platinum levels, but I will coach anyone who feels they can benefit. I cast my coaching on my stream at Justin.tv/stuiees so if youre not selected for the coaching you can still follow along. The best way to get coaching is join the chat channel stuiees in starcraft on battlenet and I will basically ask anyone in there if they want coaching, first to reply gets it. Some lessons have been like 45 min, others have gone on for 2 hours, it just depends on how things are going. Also feel free to message me, I am usually willing to help out. You can find me at stuiees.841

Look forward to seeing you guys in battle.net

EDIT: Also feel free to message me on here. I do check my pm's








EDIT2: I usually get online around 6pm pst on weekdays and usually on sat/sun afternoons and sun nights. I will try and keep you informed of my schedule if your intrested in a lesson.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'd be up for some games to learn pvp.


----------



## BigFan

Boxer and MMA to MLG!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=239467


----------



## QuadDamage

I need help my Plat is down right horrible


----------



## DoomDash

Yeaaaaahh my two favorite Terrans to MLG







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14075896*
> Yeaaaaahh my two favorite Terrans to MLG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


What! What about MKP!







MKP >>> MMA


----------



## DoomDash

Nah, Boxer MMA then MKP.


----------



## DoomDash

Sick deal for SCII collectors edition better get on it quick:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/StarCraft+II%3A+Wings+of+Liberty+Collector's+Edition+-+Mac/Windows/9853923.p?id=1218184988436&skuId=9853923&st=StarCraft%20II:%20Wings%20of%20Liberty%20Collector's%20Edition&lp=1&cp=1


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14076787*
> Sick deal for SCII collectors edition better get on it quick:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/StarCraft+II%3A+Wings+of+Liberty+Collector's+Edition+-+Mac/Windows/9853923.p?id=1218184988436&skuId=9853923&st=StarCraft%20II:%20Wings%20of%20Liberty%20Collector's%20Edition&lp=1&cp=1


nice deal!

New exploit:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239479
Crazy good!


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stuiees;14072717*
> Hey guys I just wanted to let anyone know that might be interested:
> 
> I have been offering free protoss coaching for the past week and a half to anyone who wants it. I had originally promoted this on reddit/r/starcraft and so far have got a great response. I want to offer the same opportunity to anyone on OCN. I am a masters level protoss, but this is the first RTS game I have taken seriously. Previous to taking interest in SC2, I was a semi-pro cs 1.6 player. I have played for several teams both online and lan, some more successful than others but it was time for a new game after 8 years of pure dedication. Basically I know what it takes to play games at the highest levels, and approach gaming with this mentality. Ya, I play because its fun, but its only fun if your good at it IMO. I haven't been able to put as much time into starcraft as I was able to with 1.6 because of work and just more responsibilities in general that comes with going from a teenager on to your twenties. I am used to maintaining a practice schedule from playing cs 1.6 but it does not really translate the same to starcraft 2. I find myself becoming fatigued after laddering for just a short period of time. I don't really know why, but I have found that coaching not only benefits my students, but is also a kind of way for me to sit back and analyze the game without having to actually play myself. So far I have coached levels from bronze to diamond and everyone seems have been able to benefit from each of the lessons given. This will probably be most beneficial to players between the silver to platinum levels, but I will coach anyone who feels they can benefit. I cast my coaching on my stream at Justin.tv/stuiees so if youre not selected for the coaching you can still follow along. The best way to get coaching is join the chat channel stuiees in starcraft on battlenet and I will basically ask anyone in there if they want coaching, first to reply gets it. Some lessons have been like 45 min, others have gone on for 2 hours, it just depends on how things are going. Also feel free to message me, I am usually willing to help out. You can find me at stuiees.841
> 
> Look forward to seeing you guys in battle.net
> 
> EDIT: Also feel free to message me on here. I do check my pm's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT2: I usually get online around 6pm pst on weekdays and usually on sat/sun afternoons and sun nights. I will try and keep you informed of my schedule if your intrested in a lesson.


I'm a plat protoss looking to improve. Free lessons would be pretty cool









On a side note, I hope blizzard takes care of these drophackers soon. Haven't had much issues with them down it plat though.


----------



## l337sft

Ladder lock on the 5th


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14076787*
> Sick deal for SCII collectors edition better get on it quick:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/StarCraft+II%3A+Wings+of+Liberty+Collector's+Edition+-+Mac/Windows/9853923.p?id=1218184988436&skuId=9853923&st=StarCraft%20II:%20Wings%20of%20Liberty%20Collector's%20Edition&lp=1&cp=1


From $100 to $50? Insane...


----------



## BountyHead

My ZvP is terrible, Protoss players why do you lose to Zerg i must emulate lol. I was getting some decent success with roach pushes followed by infestors then tech up to broods , but when the toss turtles hard then comes at me with 3 weapon and an army of stalker colossus and sentry's I dunno what to do , trying to get into position to neural the colossus is damn near impossible. And if i over make Corruptors i get eaten by they stalkers :/ WOAH IS ME in my ZvP lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's one of those, why did you let the protoss/zerg/terran build up to that point, answers.


----------



## BountyHead

That seemslike a canned response, when someone turtles it's hard to attack, as zerg head on battles are not in our favor, so attacking into cannons and hoping to trim down the army is our only chance? Muta harrass the protoss? Baneling doom drops on the mineral line? This guy was on 2 bases in was on 4 with 3 well saturated, he came in we traded armies twice I ran out of larva, the first battle in all honesty was a bad engagement on my part. I will admit that I need to work on my larvae injects, why did I have to pick zerg lol. Terran was my best race but I got bored of slow pushes with marine tank 

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


That seemslike a canned response, when someone turtles it's hard to attack, as zerg head on battles are not in our favor, so attacking into cannons and hoping to trim down the army is our only chance? Muta harrass the protoss? Baneling doom drops on the mineral line? This guy was on 2 bases in was on 4 with 3 well saturated, he came in we traded armies twice I ran out of larva, the first battle in all honesty was a bad engagement on my part. I will admit that I need to work on my larvae injects, why did I have to pick zerg lol. Terran was my best race but I got bored of slow pushes with marine tank 

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


I believe once you have some minimal game sense timely injects is all you need to get into masters with zerg.

If you want some general game plan try getting good econ on 3 bases, like 60-70 drones and keep denying Protoss' 3rd until gg.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14078204*
> nice deal!
> 
> New exploit:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239479
> Crazy good!


thats not an epic exploit....

an epic exploit would be the all the drophacking action thats going on. I made a trial account myself and played around with it using a VPN to make sure they don't detect my IP for my real account.

The rage is funny....blizzard will fix this soon anyway, it was made public on tons of websites and still works, but its a guaranteed ban.


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


nice deal!

New exploit:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=239479
Crazy good!










My Micro sucks. I would never be able to control that hahahah.


----------



## yks

FINALLY, masters in 3s and 4s.

Time for 2s and 1s

edit: took 6days @ ~10ish games per day


----------



## DoomDash

Good reads:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ifs8o/a_study_of_the_demographics_of_rstarcraft_and_the/

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/59243692?access_key=key-1sl1uf9kfcsknldl6xyk

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/hwd3c/randoms_what_is_your_weakest_race_and_why/


----------



## DoomDash

*Disclaimer* I do win this game, for those of you who want to steer clear of Overclock.net members only posting wins.



20 min in is where the fun starts in this one. Same disclaimer applies.

( yes I played sloppy ).


----------



## xHassassin

Hows everyone doing in the GeForce tourney? I'm currently 2-1 but it looks like the only masters player in the group dropped out or is on vacation.

I've been trying to get into masters 4v4, 3v3, and 2v2 as well. Managed 4v4 pretty nicely but 3v3 is giving me trouble mostly because 30% of the time im in the wrong spawn so I get double 10 pooled or something and another 30% of the time both my allies die before 10 minutes so I'm stuck doing a 3v1.


----------



## DoomDash

I am 3-0 in my Geforce tournament with no one else above Diamond. Chances are I'm winning it.


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm 0-2. My first match was ZvZ against a Diamond and I got 2-0'd by my opponent (Roach/Ling all-in game 1, 6pool game 2). My second match was a loss by forfeit because we had a graduation party for my Sister and I completely forgot about the match.

and I just got the email about my third match, my opponent is a Silver league Protoss player, and the map is Taldarim Altar LE, so hopefully I'll win it easily with superior macro.


----------



## poroboszcz

Working full-time and being good at SC2 is very difficult.


----------



## Skoltnik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14104736*
> Working full-time and being good at SC2 is very difficult.


yes it is lol.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14103076*
> I'm 0-2. My first match was ZvZ against a Diamond and I got 2-0'd by my opponent (Roach/Ling all-in game 1, 6pool game 2). My second match was a loss by forfeit because we had a graduation party for my Sister and I completely forgot about the match.
> 
> and I just got the email about my third match, my opponent is a Silver league Protoss player, and the map is Taldarim Altar LE, so hopefully I'll win it easily with superior macro.


Well, according to some thread on TL, your Silver Protoss player is probably around Plat level at min in season 1(if you factor in how their play has improved that is







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14104736*
> Working full-time and being good at SC2 is very difficult.


it helps if you play some games as well







(my case XD).

Interesting training method?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240153


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14105305*
> Well, according to some thread on TL, your Silver Protoss player is probably around Plat level at min in season 1(if you factor in how their play has improved that is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


He was Silver last season as well.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14105305*
> 
> Interesting training method?
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240153


I play with my game sounds really low, and music on, so I never hear those sounds anyway. Oh, and I switched my sound files with the Korean files, so even if I do hear any of those alerts, they're in Korean.


----------



## yks

SOTG tonight if people are around.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


He was Silver last season as well.









I play with my game sounds really low, and music on, so I never hear those sounds anyway. Oh, and I switched my sound files with the Korean files, so even if I do hear any of those alerts, they're in Korean.


lol, thing is, it doesn't matter if he is still silver. His macro would've improved for him to stay in the same league which was the point I was making







Are you allowed to switch sound files? Was under the impression that such modifications are bannable









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


SOTG tonight if people are around.


bbbboring









ZvsT I played last night, poor guy. Was I cruel extending the game when I knew I already had it?









Wanted to go for mass infestors after my ultras but he quit soon after. Experimented around with worms and did anyone enjoy my bane dance?









TvsZ I played today, would say my macro has improved and at least I'm more comfortable taking an exp now









I got outplayed and outmacro'd, no doubt about it. Wonder how much a couple of thors would've helped had I made them just a bit earlier :/

TvsT I played today. Reapers Galore! IMO, this is how the matchup should be played(not how badly I macro'd in the game but the reapers, tank push timing, etc....)


Any tips on that last TvsT or that TvsZ are appreciated. For the ZvsT, I got lazy towards the end and didn't care much if I lost an exp due to my trust fund







TvsT could've done better with exping behind the reaper harass and as for TvsZ, a couple of thors would've easily kept me in the game, that and I think I forgot stim and should've dropped a lot sooner!


----------



## BigFan

Couldn't not post this:









Since I'm feeling lazy, I'll just paste over my description








"The definition of epic and perseverance IMO. I was almost down and out but I was able to rally and claim victory at the end. Likewise, my opponent was pretty perseverant and I applaud him for that. So much back and forth action even as the game was reaching its conclusion, a must watch. Did I mention wrap prisms were used?"


----------



## QuadDamage

I can't login right now


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


lol, thing is, it doesn't matter if he is still silver. His macro would've improved for him to stay in the same league which was the point I was making







Are you allowed to switch sound files? Was under the impression that such modifications are bannable










It's against the ToS, but I'm hoping they don't ban me for it. It's not like I'm drophacking or anything. I'm also using the Stronger Team Color thing. It makes 4v4 games a lot less confusing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


I can't login right now










Indeed NA server is down. I'm watching Spanishiwa play on EU though.


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ I'm watching him play as well, I like watch the Zerg stream even tho I'm a boss brotoss player I enjoy playing zerg just don't have the APM to play them well.


----------



## DoomDash

Now 5-0 in my Geforce group. EZPZ.


----------



## Fortunex

Just started playing, unfortunately I have to put money towards replacing some parts in my computer so I can't afford my own account, so I'm using a friend's, who's in Platinum league. I'm getting spanked :C


----------



## cory1234

I just logged on to see what this "patch" was all about this morning, and was surprised..well more not surprised by the epic fail of "limit limit reached" as soon as I logged on.

Anyone that wants to play competitive there are 6-8 GM on the team, and plenty of regular members at every level of gameplay @ the channel clan EP.


----------



## WALSRU

The internet has exploded with rage about Fungal growth this week


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WALSRU*


The internet has exploded with rage about Fungal growth this week










Been since the change TBH.


----------



## WALSRU

Well I guess I noticed it more after I saw Destiny vs Bomber.

I think it should be more like BW and slow-down with no other changes. Still, I don't think it's THAT bad as it is now.


----------



## DoomDash

It's pretty sick, especially considering Terran at least needs tons of micro to survive in TvZ.... preventing micro is pretty dumb for everyone IMO. I'd rather have it do just the damage, that way its still sick vs balls and rines.

And yeah vs Bomber that was crazy, Bomber EMPed tons of times and STILL there was nothing to stop them from wrecking anyway.


----------



## WALSRU

Yeah but maybe 5 ghosts vs 30 infestors, he under-invested in emp. Yet he still sapped the whole group and forced a retreat at least once. So much going on in that game, I still wonder what would've happened if the drops continued, or if he'd Raven/Banshee transitioned mid-game.

I could see what you mean if FG didn't slow down. As long as it does damage, reveals cloak, stops blink/stim runaway, and doesn't FF I think it serves the same purpose.


----------



## DoomDash

Stim run away is fine.... you kinda need it. That's what I'm saying.


----------



## WALSRU

If the damage is stacking up then it's an interesting gamble. I'm more worried about blink anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Idra thinks Blink stalkers late game ZvP are unbeatable.


----------



## WALSRU

As much as I love watching him play, he has some weird ideas on balance

Post MLG Columbus Idra Interview

Quote:



- Allow Fungal Growth to be cast while burrowed

- Increase Hydralisk speed

- Decrease Ultralisk size

- Make Fungal Growth a slowing spell instead of freezing spell

- Decrease Marine rate of fire

- Lower Collosus damage

- Make Forcefield destructible with no target priority

- Increase Stalker damage and give them slower movement speed or higher Blink cooldown


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU;14125473*
> The internet has exploded with rage about Fungal growth this week


hehe, its been like that forever!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14125669*
> It's pretty sick, especially considering Terran at least needs tons of micro to survive in TvZ.... preventing micro is pretty dumb for everyone IMO. I'd rather have it do just the damage, that way its still sick vs balls and rines.
> 
> And yeah vs Bomber that was crazy, Bomber EMPed tons of times and STILL there was nothing to stop them from wrecking anyway.


Agree, make it so that you can still move but do the damage kinda like plague although I think plague also slowed the units down as I recall








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14125873*
> Idra thinks Blink stalkers late game ZvP are unbeatable.


Idra complains too much IMO.


----------



## WALSRU

Idra must be watching Huk go beastmode on the Koreans


----------



## DoomDash

Plague did not slow down units, Queens had ensnare which slowed down units but did no damage, and Defilers had plague which did damage but no slow down.


----------



## QuadDamage

When I lose I like to flip tables!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14128299*
> Plague did not slow down units, Queens had ensnare which slowed down units but did no damage, and Defilers had plague which did damage but no slow down.


my memory was a bit hazy, thanks for clearing that up. I think it should be more like plague then or at least like ensnare but not a combination of the two or what it currently is. Makes micro pretty useful and that's not something I like








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14129693*
> When I lose I like to flip tables!
> 
> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻


hehe, did you read that TL rage thread as well?


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


my memory was a bit hazy, thanks for clearing that up. I think it should be more like plague then or at least like ensnare but not a combination of the two or what it currently is. Makes micro pretty useful and that's not something I like









hehe, did you read that TL rage thread as well?










PLAGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I think fungal growth has it's purpose, but it is way to easy to use at the moment. Perhaps increasing it to 125 energy would help, like they did to the high templar, or removing the energy upgrade.


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin beat my ass tonight 3-1. The 1 was the final game and it was 37 min long ( all games were TvZ ), felt nice to finally win one. I went turret crazy







.


----------



## BountyHead

Me and my buddy were bored so we did 200/200 archons v 200/200 lings, My ling surround was pretty bad but even still only 2 archons went down lol. Lings were 3/3 with speed and attack upgrades archons wer 3/3/3 . I knew it would be no contest but still funny... we should try with banes next time


----------



## Silentness

You should try 200/200 archons and 1 observer vs 200/200 infestors (with mind control upgrade & pathogen gland upgrade)


----------



## OMG It's Bob

It's all about the Terrans, y'all.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*









You should try 200/200 archons and 1 observer vs 200/200 infestors (with mind control upgrade & pathogen gland upgrade)


The infestors would be 2 shotted by the archons lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OMG It's Bob*


It's all about the Terrans, y'all.










Boo


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OMG It's Bob;14133084*
> It's all about the Terrans, y'all.


Rep


----------



## taintedmind

Terran... -.-


----------



## DoomDash

is the coolest race.

I have roughly 2100 games of SCII played so far, and its only been out about a year. Even if you average it at 15 minutes a piece thats 525 hours I believe. Doesn't count all the time I spend reading and watching e-sports on it.

Also excludes beta.


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14137112*
> is the coolest race.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn serious. Terran is the Batman of SCII, Zerg and Protoss are like the jokers.


----------



## taintedmind

Well, I guess if it's cool to be an OP no-skill race then terran is cool. x)


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14137540*
> well, i guess if it's cool to be an op no-skill race then terran is cool. X)


lulull


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14137540*
> Well, I guess if it's cool to be an OP no-skill race then terran is cool. x)


OP no skill race? What are we playing beta again? Wasn't it Z being discussed by David Kim as being OP in the late game vs Terran? Also Terran takes tons of skills, most Zergs couldn't handle marine splitting to save their lives. Terran is known as the endless skill ceiling, which is why Morrow missed that Terran rewarded high skills, and Zerg does not. He was complaining about Z having a low skill cap. Zerg is the right click race, that's about as far as their micro goes.









Anyway, NASL's venue looks SICK. $25 for a ticket?!?!? I am so jealous of you people who live in Cali.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241161


----------



## taintedmind

Mmmhmhmmmhm.


----------



## HandOfAnubis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14137597*
> OP no skill race? What are we playing beta again? Wasn't it Z being discussed by David Kim as being OP in the late game vs Terran? Also Terran takes tons of skills, most Zergs couldn't handle marine splitting to save their lives. Terran is known as the endless skill ceiling, which is why Morrow missed that Terran rewarded high skills, and Zerg does not. He was complaining about Z having a low skill cap. Zerg is the right click race, that's about as far as their micro goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, NASL's venue looks SICK. $25 for a ticket?!?!? I am so jealous of you people who live in Cali.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241161


I wonder if you have even played Zerg before. Zerg is the hardest race of the three to get down and takes much more skill to be competetive. There is no right click only play for Zerg. You have to be aggressive, you have to scout constantly which can be hard as a zerg. Not to mention it is twice as much work to keep your macro up as zerg, spamming your hatches with larvae etc. along with keeping up with whats going on and and building to accurately compete against your opponent. Terrans just turtle and scan to see what is being built. And I WAS a Terran player and now plat Zerg....


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HandOfAnubis;14137699*
> I wonder if you have even played Zerg before. Zerg is the hardest race of the three to get down and takes much more skill to be competetive. There is no right click only play for Zerg. You have to be aggressive, you have to scout constantly which can be hard as a zerg. Not to mention it is twice as much work to keep your macro up as zerg, spamming your hatches with larvae etc. along with keeping up with whats going on and and building to accurately compete against your opponent. Terrans just turtle and scan to see what is being built. And I WAS a Terran player and now plat Zerg....


I have to agree with that.

I started SC2 with playing as terran but I got bored of constantly winning by just making marines and pressing stim. "oh noes might have to add tanks so hard to do".
I then played some brotoss but it was not for me and now ended up playing zerg, which I love. Mostly cause of the pwetty zerglings. x)

And the part with zerg macro, it took quite some time to master the injections and all that good stuff (totalbiscuit). Also, creep spread. x)
And really, zerg micro... I am not going to state the obvious with roaches but seriously, the micro needed to properly use infestors...

Scan + EMP = gg


----------



## DoomDash

Sounds like I'm surrounded by low leaguers. Ask people on here how my very rarely played Zerg is, its at least low Masters and I rarely play them. You are more than welcome to try it out







. Zerg is easy as pie.

Why do you think Terran falls off at Plat level? Did you just miss the article in the blatant skill gap required to play Terran ?

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/59243692?access_key=key-1sl1uf9kfcsknldl6xyk

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

I am sure in Bronze - Gold level Terran seems easy, but anything beyond that it where people tend to fall off. Take a look at that article, the reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ifs8o/a_study_of_the_demographics_of_rstarcraft_and_the/

And check out the links to the "which is the hardest for a random player" thread they link in there. Terran was on average the hardest for a random player, and most people can understand why Terran is so skill intensive. Zergs micro is much easier, Zerg has some complicated things to them that are less important for Terran to make up for it, and I respect Zerg players, but trust me when I say Terran is the most rewarding to a high skilled player.


----------



## poroboszcz

It's apparent from these statistics that terran is the bronze leaguers choice.


----------



## xHassassin

Yeah, I've noticed too that when I started playing random, I'd have a lot more wins as toss than terran/zerg. Then again the blizzard random system is crap and commonly gives me the same race 5+ times in a row so that might factor in it as well.

Terran is still quite easy once you learn how to bait force fields and do bane micro. I just straight up give up on TvT and go for 6 minute 1 base all ins.


----------



## yks

I learned long ago to stay away from race discussions with Doom. It's like talking to a wall.


----------



## stuiees

I wish I was younger and had more time to play







I am a masters level toss, but feel I could be so much better if I could dedicate the amount of time I wanted to, to this game. I used to be able to dedicated 6+ hours per day to cs 1.6 and was able to go pretty far in the competitive scene. I miss my gaming glory days of being towards the top...


----------



## stuiees

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sounds like I'm surrounded by low leaguers. Ask people on here how my very rarely played Zerg is, its at least low Masters and I rarely play them. You are more than welcome to try it out







. Zerg is easy as pie.

Why do you think Terran falls off at Plat level? Did you just miss the article in the blatant skill gap required to play Terran ?

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/592...9kfcsknldl6xyk

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

I am sure in Bronze - Gold level Terran seems easy, but anything beyond that it where people tend to fall off. Take a look at that article, the reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...craft_and_the/

And check out the links to the "which is the hardest for a random player" thread they link in there. Terran was on average the hardest for a random player, and most people can understand why Terran is so skill intensive. Zergs micro is much easier, Zerg has some complicated things to them that are less important for Terran to make up for it, and I respect Zerg players, but trust me when I say Terran is the most rewarding to a high skilled player.



Sorry to say it guys, but he is right IMO.... Terran is the most rewarding race at the highest level.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I have roughly 2100 games of SCII played so far, and its only been out about a year. Even if you average it at 15 minutes a piece thats 525 hours I believe. Doesn't count all the time I spend reading and watching e-sports on it.

Also excludes beta.


wow, I probably have quarter of that with customs but I've also spent a lot of time watching my replays/GSL/MLG/DH and reading TL/here









Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


Well, I guess if it's cool to be an OP no-skill race then terran is cool. x)


nah, maybe back when the game first released, it was a bit, but, terran is nowhere near OP. I would even venture a guess that its UP in the late game due to the mobility factor and that certain styles can really hard counter late T army. Once I'm on 3 bases with a decent number of drones(60+), I haven't had much issues with any Ts or even P. Infact, in that last game I posted about 3 days back, I had 6 bases and was toying with my T opponent with worms and such









Quote:



Originally Posted by *HandOfAnubis*


I wonder if you have even played Zerg before. Zerg is the hardest race of the three to get down and takes much more skill to be competetive. There is no right click only play for Zerg. You have to be aggressive, you have to scout constantly which can be hard as a zerg. Not to mention it is twice as much work to keep your macro up as zerg, spamming your hatches with larvae etc. along with keeping up with whats going on and and building to accurately compete against your opponent. Terrans just turtle and scan to see what is being built. And I WAS a Terran player and now plat Zerg....


hehe, he's played Z all right. He's a macro Z from what I've seen from our games. I'm somewhat similar(macro style) but probably more reactive due to my lack of experience. He plays Z correctly(if u consider the macro style to be correct) and I would say that he would be top masters with Z if only he switches from T









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


I learned long ago to stay away from race discussions with Doom. It's like talking to a wall.


rofl, P is easiest to play. There is no need to split units to avoid banes(not as much as marines for ex) and no need to worry about constantly spawning larvae and spreading creep plus you got a cool cloaked observer to boot







I'm afraid that Doom is right in this case, T has the highest ceiling from the three races and benefits a lot from micro. Makes me wonder if I should've switched into Terran XD


----------



## DoomDash

Glad we can all agree.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Glad we can all agree.


well to a point


----------



## murderbymodem

2-0'd my opponent in my Geforce match tonight. Nothing to brag about really, since he was only Silver, but I'm glad to have a win under my belt. He played Protoss the first game and Terran the second game, I don't even know if that is allowed, but I won anyway.


----------



## taintedmind

Okok. I hate to revive this conversation because it's pointless and it's like trying to convice a wall to move (much like mac vs windows discussions) but I am seriously confused.

I can agree with that P is somewhat easy but "terran has lots of micro" what?
- Is it that hard to press T for stimpacks and then tear most things apart?
- I read those posts and I am unsure what it is that I am not seeing, but I don't really find them supporting your opinion.
- The banelings micro exists for sure, not going to argue against that - however keep in mind though the crazy ling/bling micro needed in most early ZvZs.
- Deploy/undeploy tanks (which ain't all that hard if you just don't run away with your all-countering marines)
- What more micro is there?
* Against protoss: Ghosts (E) (multiple if needed) -> Tab -> Marines/Marauders (T) (split if high templars) -> A-Move -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)
* Against zerg: Ghosts (E) (If infestors) -> Marines/Marauders (T) -> Run back (+ split) (if banelings) -> A-move back -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)

- Also, from one of the links "I noticed that (un-)deploying my tanks 1second too early/late could mean the difference between a win and a loss" but doesn't really all races have this? "Your mineral line-harassing mutalisks (worth 500minerals and 500 gas) moved out 1 second too late and was torn to pieces by 8 stimming marines (worth 400 minerals).", "Feedback was 1 second too late and now my entire army was murdered by 1 ghost." So aren't we all in the same boat?

Please tell me what is so hard about terran? I mean, I watch a lot of them streams and tournaments and all I keep seeing is marines, marines and more marines killing everything and the occasional fungal growth followed by terrans crying for fungal nerf. 3-3 marines... the horror.

Also another starcraft question irrerelevant to this subject, but it's about macro, what, exactly is macro? Is it to hotkey your production facilities and to maintain production in a fast and smooth way while doing other things, such as an attack? There must be more to it, no? As if that's as far as macro goes I don't understand why people are like "oh noes macro is hard". (I understand that queen + injection managment goes under the macro category aswell.)


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14145565*
> Okok. I hate to revive this conversation because it's pointless and it's like trying to convice a wall to move (much like mac vs windows discussions) but I am seriously confused.
> 
> I can agree with that P is somewhat easy but "terran has lots of micro" what?
> - Is it that hard to press T for stimpacks and then tear most things apart?
> - I read those posts and I am unsure what it is that I am not seeing, but I don't really find them supporting your opinion.
> - The banelings micro exists for sure, not going to argue against that - however keep in mind though the crazy ling/bling micro needed in most early ZvZs.
> - Deploy/undeploy tanks (which ain't all that hard if you just don't run away with your all-countering marines)
> - What more micro is there?
> * Against protoss: Ghosts (E) (multiple if needed) -> Tab -> Marines/Marauders (T) (split if high templars) -> A-Move -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)
> * Against zerg: Ghosts (E) (If infestors) -> Marines/Marauders (T) -> Run back (+ split) (if banelings) -> A-move back -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)
> 
> - Also, from one of the links "I noticed that (un-)deploying my tanks 1second too early/late could mean the difference between a win and a loss" but doesn't really all races have this? "Your mineral line-harassing mutalisks (worth 500minerals and 500 gas) moved out 1 second too late and was torn to pieces by 8 stimming marines (worth 400 minerals).", "Feedback was 1 second too late and now my entire army was murdered by 1 ghost." So aren't we all in the same boat?
> 
> Please tell me what is so hard about terran? I mean, I watch a lot of them streams and tournaments and all I keep seeing is marines, marines and more marines killing everything and the occasional fungal growth followed by terrans crying for fungal nerf. 3-3 marines... the horror.
> 
> Also another starcraft question irrerelevant to this subject, but it's about macro, what, exactly is macro? Is it to hotkey your production facilities and to maintain production in a fast and smooth way while doing other things, such as an attack? There must be more to it, no? As if that's as far as macro goes I don't understand why people are like "oh noes macro is hard". (I understand that queen + injection managment goes under the macro category aswell.)


Marine micro isn't easy. The splits you discuss can always be made better are require heavy micro.

The truth is, your race will always be the hardest. Zerg players think T/P is easy, P thinks T/Z is easy and T thinks P/Z is easy. Universal bias.

Right now the game is pretty balanced, with terran showing a very slight advantage in win % at high level play. Even that might change over time.

There will always be imbalances within match-ups at various points in the game. Terran has raw firepower and will take advantage of it. Find your race's own imbalances and go from there.

Micro is the management of individual units. Macro is base management, army positioning, map control, multi-base efficiency, etc etc.


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Marine micro isn't easy. The splits you discuss can always be made better are require heavy micro.


I find it easy, but yes, it can always be better.








Quote:


> The truth is, your race will always be the hardest. Zerg players think T/P is easy, P thinks T/Z is easy and T thinks P/Z is easy. Universal bias.


Kinda what I said, in other words.
Quote:


> Right now the game is pretty balanced, with terran showing a very slight advantage in win % at high level play. Even that might change over time.
> There will always be imbalances within match-ups at various points in the game. Terran has raw firepower and will take advantage of it. Find your race's own imbalances and go from there.


I completely agree with it being kinda balanced, just some things that seem.. less balanced, ie T early game.
Quote:


> Micro is the management of individual units. Macro is base management, army positioning, map control, multi-base efficiency, etc etc.


Alright. thank you for that input.


----------



## PixelFreakz

Can I get input on my gameplay? I know my micro isnt best and my macro slips also, but as far as timing and unit placement etc? Should I start playing 1v1? anyone wanna coach me?








[URL=http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=220321]


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PixelFreakz;14146543*
> Can I get input on my gameplay? I know my micro isnt best and my macro slips also, but as far as timing and unit placement etc? Should I start playing 1v1? anyone wanna coach me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [URL=http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=220321]


Which league is this?

Also, I saw a few major flaws but overall you're definetly ready for 1v1 - my guess would be silver/gold level.


----------



## PixelFreakz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14146625*
> Which league is this?
> 
> Also, I saw a few major flaws but overall you're definetly ready for 1v1 - my guess would be silver/gold level.


Its random teams. I'm ranked 4 in my pool, brood lord dixie... According to gamereplays thats equivalent to like rank 115 in all of silver 3v3 random..? My highest rank is in 4v4 Random teams, rank 2, brood lord beta. I played Z vs oGs.Mc I think was my last 1v1 and lost.. :/ Kinda made me sad and shy away from 1v1 lol. What did I do wrong?


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


Okok. I hate to revive this conversation because it's pointless and it's like trying to convice a wall to move (much like mac vs windows discussions) but I am seriously confused.

I can agree with that P is somewhat easy but "terran has lots of micro" what?
- Is it that hard to press T for stimpacks and then tear most things apart?
- I read those posts and I am unsure what it is that I am not seeing, but I don't really find them supporting your opinion.
- The banelings micro exists for sure, not going to argue against that - however keep in mind though the crazy ling/bling micro needed in most early ZvZs.
- Deploy/undeploy tanks (which ain't all that hard if you just don't run away with your all-countering marines)
- What more micro is there?
* Against protoss: Ghosts (E) (multiple if needed) -> Tab -> Marines/Marauders (T) (split if high templars) -> A-Move -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)
* Against zerg: Ghosts (E) (If infestors) -> Marines/Marauders (T) -> Run back (+ split) (if banelings) -> A-move back -> GG (and if you're an advanced student remember to tab again (twice) and press (R) and grab yourself some freebies)

- Also, from one of the links "I noticed that (un-)deploying my tanks 1second too early/late could mean the difference between a win and a loss" but doesn't really all races have this? "Your mineral line-harassing mutalisks (worth 500minerals and 500 gas) moved out 1 second too late and was torn to pieces by 8 stimming marines (worth 400 minerals).", "Feedback was 1 second too late and now my entire army was murdered by 1 ghost." So aren't we all in the same boat?

Please tell me what is so hard about terran? I mean, I watch a lot of them streams and tournaments and all I keep seeing is marines, marines and more marines killing everything and the occasional fungal growth followed by terrans crying for fungal nerf. 3-3 marines... the horror.

Also another starcraft question irrerelevant to this subject, but it's about macro, what, exactly is macro? Is it to hotkey your production facilities and to maintain production in a fast and smooth way while doing other things, such as an attack? There must be more to it, no? As if that's as far as macro goes I don't understand why people are like "oh noes macro is hard". (I understand that queen + injection managment goes under the macro category aswell.)


TvZ is an uphill battle for the terran, and the terran has to vastly outplay both the z or the p to win.

Zerg just had to make drones until he wins, or goes Broodlord infestor which is ridiculous to deal with. You're saying terran has 'easy' micro, but it's not like the other races really have any? Oh gee, amove collosus deathball is pretty hard. Move your lings forward, kill all marines, and get free tank kills with the muta. Turrets? No problem! Kill all the scvs repairing anyway!

If you want to see what's hard about terran, try to play a macro game against a good master+ zerg player.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah, I think until you play Terran at master level at least its probably hard to understand what is hard about them. That's when you literally must be good at micro, extremely abusive, know really tight timings, always been in the correct position, and literally micro the entire battles.

May I ask what league you are in Tainted? I hate to say it but there is a huge difference in understanding the difficulties of something once people actually understand how to play against it properly. I'd say 99% of people losing to Terran in the lower leagues is just poor scouting build order losses, or just something as simple as the wrong unit comp.

In the low leagues MMM seems redic, I understand that, but the higher you go the less effective you realize it really is.

As Twist said TvZ and TvP are an uphill battle for Terran. I do agree Terran has a slight advantage very early in the game, but that's the only thing they have to give them a fighting chance late, because Terran macro just isn't as good as P or Z.

Zerg has plenty of challenging things, but I don't think micro is it. T micro for sure, and probably even P micro is more challenging. As I said last time Zerg has other unique things about the race that make them challenging.

Also:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzq2O54LLIw&f[/ame]


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


May I ask what league you are in Tainted?


Well. I am no pro player and my opinions are only based on my own experiences (in my games and the streams that I watch - so no, what I say may not be totally accurate or even close to accurate).

As for my league, I have tried every race so far and I achieved:

Terran: Top platinum
Protoss: Top Platinum
Zerg: Top Silver

Why? Started as terran and steamrolled to top plat using marines, stim and medivacs. Got bored, switched to toss and continued in top plat, was a bit more of a challange but managed to keep up and did not fall in ranks. Felt like it was not my race and switched to zerg (always had a thing for dem zergs but was scared of the macro needed







) and my god it was like trying to carve wood with a wooden stick when I started and my rank crashed into the ground and I am now working my way up again and have big hopes for season 3 as zerg.









Finally, I am always open to change my opinion about anything if enough facts etc are presented and as I stated earlier, I really did not want to start this discussion







so, sorry about that.







But at the end of the day, isn't the enjoyment the most important thing in the end and then if you can get cash and fame for playing a computer game, then so much the better!

Also, the two NERD ALERT videos (banelings and voidrays) are about how terran steamrolls the other races. x)


----------



## yks

Lazorbeam, I love you.


----------



## DoomDash

Twistacles, I love you.

OMG @ Morrow picking Terran vs July @ NASL finals.

What a mistake, he got steam rolled. I actually think he would have crushed July ZvZ


----------



## yks

When the **** did moon get so good?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


- Also, from one of the links "I noticed that (un-)deploying my tanks 1second too early/late could mean the difference between a win and a loss" but doesn't really all races have this? "Your mineral line-harassing mutalisks (worth 500minerals and 500 gas) moved out 1 second too late and was torn to pieces by 8 stimming marines (worth 400 minerals).", "Feedback was 1 second too late and now my entire army was murdered by 1 ghost." So aren't we all in the same boat?

Please tell me what is so hard about terran? I mean, I watch a lot of them streams and tournaments and all I keep seeing is marines, marines and more marines killing everything and the occasional fungal growth followed by terrans crying for fungal nerf. 3-3 marines... the horror.


The thing is with tanks, you need to hop them, so, if you aren't careful, all the Z has to do is run some slings+blings into your army and your marines are gone(to blings) and tanks are surrounded by slings. Source: my experience on both sides









As for FG, issue is that you can't retreat if you get FG'd, you are stuck. If you could retreat, then FGing isn't as OP as it sounds. You do realize that it got crazy buffed a couple of patches back(+30% armored). I'm all for Z love, but, IMO, that buff wasn't needed and FG was OP already(considering how fast it kills groups of marines).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, *I think until you play Terran at master level at least its probably hard to understand what is hard about them.* That's when you literally must be good at micro, extremely abusive, know really tight timings, always been in the correct position, and literally micro the entire battles.

May I ask what league you are in Tainted? I hate to say it but there is a huge difference in understanding the difficulties of something once people actually understand how to play against it properly. I'd say 99% of people losing to Terran in the lower leagues is just poor scouting build order losses, or just something as simple as the wrong unit comp.

As Twist said TvZ and TvP are an uphill battle for Terran. I do agree Terran has a slight advantage very early in the game, but that's the only thing they have to give them a fighting chance late, because Terran macro just isn't as good as P or Z.

Zerg has plenty of challenging things, but I don't think micro is it. T micro for sure, and probably even P micro is more challenging. As I said last time Zerg has other unique things about the race that make them challenging.


Unfortunately that isn't the case anymore. Even in gold, I've run into Z players that actually go into macro and will keep droning until they feel pressured enough to make some units. Makes the game almost impossible to win as T on a long map due to blings(easier for P IMO due to higher hp, ffs, etc...). Ex: recent game on Scrap, I exp'd to my natural and was going to exp to the island. The Z player had 4 bases by the time I had 2 up and then rolled my army







It was partly my fault for not pressuring and I realized that he had that many bases too late but I couldn't do anything about it. Might as well gg before his attack.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


Well. I am no pro player and my opinions are only based on my own experiences (in my games and the streams that I watch - so no, what I say may not be totally accurate or even close to accurate).

As for my league, I have tried every race so far and I achieved:

Terran: Top platinum
Protoss: Top Platinum
Zerg: Top Silver

Why? Started as terran and steamrolled to top plat using marines, stim and medivacs. Got bored, switched to toss and continued in top plat, was a bit more of a challange but managed to keep up and did not fall in ranks. Felt like it was not my race and switched to zerg (always had a thing for dem zergs but was scared of the macro needed







) and my god it was like trying to carve wood with a wooden stick when I started and my rank crashed into the ground and I am now working my way up again and have big hopes for season 3 as zerg.










Reason you got streamrolled is the same reason I kept on getting steamrolled as a Z back when I was in Silver. I would get an exp, make some drones and then constantly make units but with Z, you need to keep making drones and make units at the last second possible. Eventually, I improved my macro and I find Z pretty easy to play. Terran is much harder with P/Z tied for second place









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OMG @ Morrow picking Terran vs July @ NASL finals.

What a mistake, he got steam rolled. I actually think he would have crushed July ZvZ


hehe. SOOO MANY BANELINGS!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

So many banelings in Moon vs HasuObs game 1!!!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


So many banelings in Moon vs HasuObs game 1!!!!!



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hehe. SOOO MANY BANELINGS!!!!!


















Game 2 was pretty good though, complete domination!









You guys, up for a game while we wait?


----------



## DoomDash

No SCII for me tonight. Playing PS3







.


----------



## taintedmind

Quote: 
  The thing is with tanks, you need to hop them, so, if you aren't careful, all the Z has to do is run some slings+blings into your army and your marines are gone(to blings) and tanks are surrounded by slings. Source: my experience on both sides








Didn't we just cover this with "omg marine micro so hard"? That if you do not pay attention, regardless of race you might get rolled over. "if you aren't careful your colossus will be killed by a single viking" or "if you're not careful all of your infestors will be killed by a single ghost (as Destiny has witnessed, Scan + EMP = GG LOL)".

Quote: 
  As for FG, issue is that you can't retreat if you get FG'd, you are stuck. If you could retreat, then FGing isn't as OP as it sounds. You do realize that it got crazy buffed a couple of patches back(+30% armored). I'm all for Z love, but, IMO, that buff wasn't needed and FG was OP already(considering how fast it kills groups of marines).  









Need something to deal with the bioball that tears everything to pieces, no? How can you see something, anything that can actually stop the bloody bioball of doom as OP? If something's OP it's the bloody bioball, every single part of it.

Quote: 
  Unfortunately that isn't the case anymore. Even in gold, I've run into Z players that actually go into macro and will keep droning until they feel pressured enough to make some units. Makes the game almost impossible to win as T on a long map due to blings(easier for P IMO due to higher hp, ffs, etc...). Ex: recent game on Scrap, I exp'd to my natural and was going to exp to the island. The Z player had 4 bases by the time I had 2 up and then rolled my army







It was partly *my fault for not pressuring* and I realized that he had that many bases too late but I couldn't do anything about it. Might as well gg before his attack.  
If someone turtles, harass them. Of course they're gonna roll all over you if you let them mass up. :/ Exactly the same with P's deathball or T's bioball.

Quote: 
  Reason you got streamrolled is the same reason I kept on getting steamrolled as a Z back when I was in Silver. I would get an exp, make some drones and then constantly make units but with Z, you need to keep making drones and make units at the last second possible. Eventually, I improved my macro and I find Z pretty easy to play. Terran is much harder with P/Z tied for second place








I am "developing" a special little opening that deals rather well with most early pressure builds. It still needs some refining, but going pretty well.







As for the mass droning, I usually wait till a little bit later when I feel safe to drone up, just so that I am not caught out of position with no army what so ever (other than spines that marauders just laughs at anyway). Also I am rather confused, because just as you say everyone says the same "drone like mad bro" but that just ends up with a loss to early aggression... Of course in higher leagues when people aren't scrubs anymore and do not wish to end the game within the first 10 minutes it works, but not in the lower leagues nor teamgames...

  
 You Tube  



 
 ^ derp. This kinda sums up how imbalanced T is. For close to no cost one can create units that tears basically anything apart...


----------



## DoomDash

I could show you 10000 games that make it look Zerg favored as hell. Also yes that's true that if you if you make mistakes as the other races they can also lose, but for Terran it comes much faster and things like position are even more important.

PS That game looks like some very casual crap, Ravens and Hydras? LOL. Also I don't see any imbalance in it anyway.

All I know is you should keep playing Terran, then come back to me when you get Masters and you keeping getting rolled by Zerg, because I will tell you every single Terran player in Masters on here cannot stand Zerg because they are just so powerful, and they require less fancy play to be successful.

Also BigFan was a 100% Zerg player up until this season, and he used to argue the same crap you argue with me up and down until he played around more and become a random player, now you a trolling him with silly pictures because he's giving you his opinion even though if he has anything to be biased to its Zerg. You can say I am biased as I play 99% T, but he is not.

Honestly keep playing Terran, get to masters, and if you don't come on here crying about how stupid hard TvZ is I will be shocked, because almost no one else can figure it out at equal skill level. The only player on here who can do it really well is Jediwin, a random player, but I blame it on his 200 APM Korean skills ( He korean ). Also Jediwin is sick at ZvT too.

I think TvZ is fine at pro level because of the skill ceiling Terran has, but again to maximize Terran to be on an equal playing field I think you have to be more skilled. Don't believe me that's fine, but you'll find a lot of people feel this way, even people who play random. That also means in theory Terran is the best race, easy to learn, hard to master, and I'm fine with that.

You're more than welcome to try some good marine micro vs my literally 1A Zerg never play zerg, but I don't think you'll be happy getting rolled by no micro Zerg.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


Didn't we just cover this with "omg marine micro so hard"? That if you do not pay attention, regardless of race you might get rolled over. "if you aren't careful your colossus will be killed by a single viking" or "if you're not careful all of your infestors will be killed by a single ghost (as Destiny has witnessed, Scan + EMP = GG LOL)".
*One viking will take a long time to kill one colossi







As for covering it, the idea is mostly that Z units move fast, so if I accidentally misclick my mutas, I'll lose some but I can at least retreat, not so much for T units. T units are average speed(faster with stim) but mech is pretty slow. Tanks are easily surrounded and ripped apart if the marines are taken out. I just played a ZvsT on delta where the opponent tried to double drop my base, easily held it off due to vision and then took more bases and took out his army every time with relative ease. Slings+banes are amazing at taking out marine+tank combos if you can catch them offguard







*









Need something to deal with the bioball that tears everything to pieces, no? How can you see something, anything that can actually stop the bloody bioball of doom as OP? If something's OP it's the bloody bioball, every single part of it.
*There is this special unit in Z specifically for infantry called banelings, you should try it in your ZvsT if you think the bioball is that bad







Joking aside, I used to lose to this bioball pretty much every single ZvsT in season 1 back when I started laddering. Once I started adding in banes, MMM became a joke and pretty easy to deal with.

Also, we aren't at a level where our T opponents have amazing splits and can micro to save his/her life. There are no MKPs in NA ladder(although some in GM are darn good with splits) especially at the lower levels. My Z is probably around plat level easy, maybe slightly higher, but, my point is, add in banes and watch your win rate go up. It's much harder for the Terran to do the split then for me to run in the banes and split them into 2 or 3 groups(to follow his marine groups).

The P bioball is also a lot deadlier than the T one to deal with because they are harder to take out head on due to the raw dps unless you use bane drops which are still amazingly effective and are being used in a lot of ZvsP games in comparison to the old roach+hydra+corruptor composition. My point is with this wall of text is, the bioballs aren't difficult to deal with at our level if you can keep your macro up and use banes/bane drops efficiently. As for infestors, units pack much tighter in SCII for one FG takes out a LOT of hp and 2 FGs can take out a ton of marines at once, not to mention that FG works great against armored units. I'm sticking to my original point, infestors are becoming an OP unit not that I care much since I'm random and get to use them/they get used against me








*

If someone turtles, harass them. Of course they're gonna roll all over you if you let them mass up. :/ Exactly the same with P's deathball or T's bioball.
*hehe, was trying to play a more macro game oriented and just focus on making workers and not get supply blocked. I even got a fast inbase OC and was planning on double exping(one to island, another nearby minerals) but for some reason, didn't and when I went for a late drop, I noticed that he has taken the gold as well as another exp. Too late by then to do much damage. That and scrap is such a long map that its harder, if not impossible to 2 rax on.
Had I had 2 thors out or so, I would've held his attack since it was his muta count that wiped my marines then my tanks, not the slings








*

I am "developing" a special little opening that deals rather well with most early pressure builds. It still needs some refining, but going pretty well.







As for the mass droning, I usually wait till a little bit later when I feel safe to drone up, just so that I am not caught out of position with no army what so ever (other than spines that marauders just laughs at anyway). Also I am rather confused, because just as you say everyone says the same "drone like mad bro" but that just ends up with a loss to early aggression... Of course in higher leagues when people aren't scrubs anymore and do not wish to end the game within the first 10 minutes it works, but not in the lower leagues nor teamgames...
*That's why you prepare for anything and everything. A single spore in your mineral line with a spine incase of drops. A couple of slings+banes then drone like mad. Even then, you can drone like mad without making a single unit if you are constantly scouting and watching your opponent's army size/unit composition, etc....*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwQ-t9CgCRI

^ derp. This kinda sums up how imbalanced T is. For close to no cost one can create units that tears basically anything apart...


If you make use of chokes and micro well, T can be very rewarding. It's what doom has been trying to say, but, this is only high level play(pros).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also BigFan was a 100% Zerg player up until this season, and he used to* argue the same crap* you argue with me up and down until he played around more and become a random player, now you a trolling him with silly pictures because he's giving you his opinion even though if he has anything to be biased to its Zerg. You can say I am biased as I play 99% T, but he is not.

You're more than welcome to try some good marine micro vs my literally 1A Zerg never play zerg, but I don't think you'll be happy getting rolled by no micro Zerg.


hey, hey, take it easy







I can't recall how much arguing I used to make against the bioball since I haven't lost to it since I started using banes







My bias to Z is pretty much history now since I'm random. In the end, I think infestors are just too strong of a unit since FG removes any possible micro and I hate that







They might have low hp, are pretty big, wobbly and stand out but this makes EMP less effective(due to size) and all you need is one FG to do some serious damage to an MMM ball









BTW, I forgot to mention that I have only teched to hive 2-3 times in all my Z games to get ultras/BLs. I usually rely on slings/banes/roaches/mutas to win my games, so, I don't use infestors much aside from occassional use in my ZvsZ games now









Also, I find Z much easier to play from P/T even with all the extra tasks and usually lose my games when I don't scout enough/fail to make a strong enough army in time to counter my opponents but its something that I've improved on as well









EDIT: BTW, I would be interested in watching that TvsZ game you guys might play









EDIT2: That darkforce against live match game 3 was just sad to watch. Darkforce FG'd like 14-15 vikings at once and like that, they were gone


----------



## DoomDash

Alive vs Darkforce was an AWESOME series







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Alive vs Darkforce was an AWESOME series







.


u serious?








alive was wrecked by that BL+infestor combo in game 2 and 3. There was absolutely no way he could've won those games even though he had the upper hand early on in the last game. I really think its FGs fault due to the fact that you can't micro units away but what do I know, I'm just some random gold player


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I think that's true but I still thought they were intense. That combo is so good lol. At one point Artosis said that not chasing the broodlords was mistake, but he didn't realize that if you chase BL's it means you will get FGed and lose all your vikings because root makes no options to retreat.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I think that's true but I still thought they were intense. That combo is so good lol. At one point Artosis said that not chasing the broodlords was mistake, but he didn't realize that if you chase BL's it means you will get FGed and lose all your vikings because root makes no options to retreat.


of course, not disagreeing with you but it felt one sided at that point. Hopefully, they fix this issue but I ain't complaining


----------



## DoomDash

I was kind of worried because of how scary alives army was I guess. I thought Dark did a bunch of things wrong, like taking expansions pretty late, and game 2 he gifted like 30 muta's over the entire game.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I was kind of worried because of how scary alives army was I guess. I thought Dark did a bunch of things wrong, like taking expansions pretty late, and game 2 he gifted like 30 muta's over the entire game.


I think alive made a mistake there with that army of his and Dark took the advantage


----------



## cory1234

Alive vs Dark was good, especially game 2.

Select vs White.Ra is going to be insane!!! Go White.Ra!!!!

Edit:360p sucks


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## cory1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












That's too funny. Who was that on the right?


----------



## DoomDash

Zenio.


----------



## DoomDash

I think NASL has brought out the worst in me, not because I dislike it, but because I hate the people who complain about a product that is offered completely for free and do nothing but bicker and complain about it.


----------



## BountyHead

Thats why I never look at chat, its full of idiots and ascii thats been copy pasted. Also HOW THE HELL can a protoss afford to mass 5 collosus and stalkers on one base, Its asinine. I was so flabbergasted i spent 2 minutes after i lost my main using lings to scout the map. It was ******ed. This was about 9 minutes into the game when he made his push.


----------



## poroboszcz

No EU restream?









What happened in White-Ra vs SelecT and MC vs BoxeR?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14155038*


what exactly happened there? is there a background story to it?
he mad at something? lol


----------



## ChocoboLIVE

^Lol lol, and I though there is another handgiving with a hiding needle on it.


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14157372*
> what exactly happened there? is there a background story to it?
> he mad at something? lol


Guess it's someone who's feeling important.


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14156059*
> No EU restream?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened in White-Ra vs SelecT and MC vs BoxeR?


Select and MC won those games both 2-0 I believe.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think it was intentional.

Anyway:

http://gifsound.com/?gif=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPlTdF.gif&sound=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6zlViU5PBPY&start=0


----------



## BigFan

Sen vs. MC game 2, tune in guys! First game was awesome on Taldarim, awesome micro by MC


----------



## DoomDash

Game 4 was epic.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Game 4 was epic.


oh ya, game 5 was also pretty epic!


----------



## murderbymodem

http://www.team-dignitas.net/shop/Te...-T-Shirt-Large

so tempted...


----------



## BigFan

PvsT I played tonight on XC:

Seems mech play is becoming a lot more popular with Ts lately. A misclick on my part cost me my army and I lost my last mining exp. I was able to comeback and win the game, but, I still find it bizzare that mech play is getting used without ghosts for EMP(immortals, etc...)


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


PvsT I played tonight on XC:

Seems mech play is becoming a lot more popular with Ts lately. A misclick on my part cost me my army and I lost my last mining exp. I was able to comeback and win the game, but, I still find it bizzare that mech play is getting used without ghosts for EMP(immortals, etc...)


I watched that replay and found the lack of expansions, ghosts and high templars disturbing. x)

Awh, I wanna go practice mah Z but too busy being devoured by the epicness of ME2.


----------



## yks

I haven't played 1s ladder in 3 months. Why is Forge FE into Stargate against Zerg so fun? But my PVP got 100x worse, =[=[=[=[


----------



## taintedmind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14166070*
> Why is Forge FE into Stargate against Zerg so fun?


Why is everyone OP except for me?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14165948*
> I watched that replay and found the lack of expansions, ghosts and high templars disturbing. x)
> 
> Awh, I wanna go practice mah Z but too busy being devoured by the epicness of ME2.


hehe, well, I think having between 3-4 bases on XC is good enough







Majority of games I've seen pros play on XC, they usually end up with 3-4 bases anyways







If you watch my previous games, you would know that I have a hard time taking a 3rd as T/P so I say this was an improvement!









As for hts, well, I decided to take the colossi route. For some reason, hts don't work too well when I use them







Most of my opponents withdraw fast enough after I storm, but, once my macro is better, I intend to add them in. In the meantime, I'll stick to colossi/dt play








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14166070*
> I haven't played 1s ladder in 3 months. Why is Forge FE into Stargate against Zerg so fun? But my PVP got 100x worse, =[=[=[=[


It's not







Stargate play can be shut down pretty easy as Z as seen from the semis of NASL yesterday. Given, mass VRs are hard to deal with but its why storm, FG and seeker(yes, I mentioned that







) are AOE and great against them to a point.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14166104*
> Why is everyone OP except for me?


rofl, how is that? I think MC is OP, nerf him!


----------



## Twistacles

Oh lawd. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours straight trying to become more solid, and was it ever painful...

I don't understand how I can have games where I kill entire drone lines or snipe hatches and am still way behind. ***ux infestors yo


----------



## taintedmind

I need to improve my infestor play.

Currently I am most for speedlings, banelings, roaches, mutas and corruptors...
Man I love my speedlings!









I never find any use for going Ultra/Broods... god I am a horrible newbie to zerg. XD


----------



## Twistacles

Infestor brood is good. Ultras r bad.
Btw tainted i missed he discussion eaelier but commenting on a matchups easiness when youre plat is equivalent to commenting on pro golf
because youre good at miniputt


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;14167157*
> Oh lawd. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours straight trying to become more solid, and was it ever painful...
> 
> I don't understand how I can have games where I kill entire drone lines or snipe hatches and am still way behind. ***ux infestors yo


I played Jediwin on Dualsight, killed 2 hatches, and push a little in the main before my army died. He did a nice counter while it was going on and did too much damage though, and he ended up winning the game anyway. Zerg on big maps is hard to prevent them from taking all those expos







.


----------



## BigFan

Puma vs. MC is awesome, Terrans take notes!


----------



## yks

I just said it was fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn I really thought Puma out played MC all game last game ( Game 5 ). I think medivacs are too easy to pick off when Terran kites now due to archon/blink stalkers/phoenix. Everything was going better for Puma for majority of the game, huge harass, huge success, supply lead, but every time he engaged he lost 99% of his medivacs kitting or retreating ( which means less ghost and marauder ). I wonder what Terran will have to do in the future late game to fix this problem?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Damn I really thought Puma out played MC all game last game ( Game 5 ). I think medivacs are too easy to pick off when Terran kites now due to archon/blink stalkers/phoenix. Everything was going better for Puma for majority of the game, huge harass, huge success, supply lead, but every time he engaged he lost 99% of his medivacs kitting or retreating ( which means less ghost and marauder ). I wonder what Terran will have to do in the future late game to fix this problem?


Game 6 just ended, awesome game! Well, he did outplay him a bit but eventually MC composed himself and started to gain control and push out slowly taking more bases, etc.... I think puma is playing as terran should be played, constantly with the drops/harass, etc.... but I wonder if that'll work in game 7


----------



## rhed5

The NASL finals were amazing. Such high level of play.


----------



## murderbymodem

The games being so amazing totally made up for the fact that our star league got dominated by foreigners. I believe Sheth was the only player in the finals that was actually American?


----------



## DoomDash

I wish this was my setup:


----------



## murderbymodem

New post on the OCN Starcraft 2 thread!!!

...Oh, it's just DoomDash posting something from r/starcraft that I've already seen








I'm also totally jelly of that setup.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I post a lot from there







.


----------



## poroboszcz

It was an awesome series.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3085760#blog

It seems we'll be able to purchase Taiwanese copy of SC2 and play on Korean ladder?


----------



## BigFan

Region Linking!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3085760#blog

Wonder if NA will ever get EU+KR. Currently, its NA+LA, KR+TW and EU+RU


----------



## Sangers_low

sup forgot my old ocn account  just made a new one.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=242938


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Region Linking!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3085760#blog

Wonder if NA will ever get EU+KR. Currently, its NA+LA, KR+TW and EU+RU










u dun want kr... believe me. i've been there


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

THE Easiest question ever heard about starcraft:

If I buy the ORIGINAL GAME (serial included) I could have the option to play it online without paying monthly fee?

I got wc3 and you only need the serial to play it FOREVER, but I dunno how is the SC2 system. I'll appreciate your help


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


THE Easiest question ever heard about starcraft:

If I buy the ORIGINAL GAME (serial included) I could have the option to play it online without paying monthly fee?

I got wc3 and you only need the serial to play it FOREVER, but I dunno how is the SC2 system. I'll appreciate your help


sc2 is no mmo...no fee apart from the game


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


THE Easiest question ever heard about starcraft:

If I buy the ORIGINAL GAME (serial included) I could have the option to play it online without paying monthly fee?

I got wc3 and you only need the serial to play it FOREVER, but I dunno how is the SC2 system. I'll appreciate your help


Yeah same deal. There are no monthly fees for SC2


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dropkickninja*


Yeah same deal. There are no monthly fees for SC2










Thanks man you make my day







.

So its time to split! (timesplitters)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster;14180684*
> Thanks man you make my day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So its time to split! (timesplitters)


haha join the "overclock.net" channel when u get the game xD


----------



## xHassassin

Ugh,

Lost to some platinum player I shouldn't have. Won one straight up macro game, lost the next two to 1 base immortal all ins I wasn't prepare for.

Then I got ffl'd in my next match because I got there 30 minutes late.

Looks like I won't be advancing.


----------



## DoomDash

In the geforce tournament? I haven't been playing much SC2 since I got another PS3.


----------



## yks

MMA, Boxer, MVP, DRG. The 4 seeds.

choya, ganzi, alicia in the open.

7 korean in MLG this time instead of 5. ^_^

edit: is it sad i fear DRG more than MVP?


----------



## eosgreen

giving lessons for 120mm fans


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=242926

1.3.5 is updating, not sure if its live though







. ( on PTR )


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eosgreen*


giving lessons for 120mm fans


rofl


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


MMA, Boxer, MVP, DRG. The 4 seeds.

choya, ganzi, alicia in the open.

7 korean in MLG this time instead of 5. ^_^

edit: is it sad i fear DRG more than MVP?


cause he's a baller with 91.7 winrate


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It was an awesome series.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3085760#blog

It seems we'll be able to purchase Taiwanese copy of SC2 and play on Korean ladder?


I believe that you can do so









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


u dun want kr... believe me. i've been there


If I do buy a kr account, I'll probably ladder a lot and I'm sure I'll improve at a faster rate, so, to answer your question which wasn't actually a question, I do want it!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


THE Easiest question ever heard about starcraft:

If I buy the ORIGINAL GAME (serial included) I could have the option to play it online without paying monthly fee?

I got wc3 and you only need the serial to play it FOREVER, but I dunno how is the SC2 system. I'll appreciate your help


As mentioned, only need to buy the game, no monthly fees at all









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


In the geforce tournament? I haven't been playing much SC2 since I got another PS3.


ah I see, do keep me informed how much you like POP









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


MMA, Boxer, MVP, DRG. The 4 seeds.

choya, ganzi, alicia in the open.

7 korean in MLG this time instead of 5. ^_^

edit: is it sad i fear DRG more than MVP?


who's DRG?


----------



## DoomDash

GSL finals will be @ Blizzcon!!!


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14184742*
> who's DRG?


MVP DongRaeGu


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14184742*
> 
> who's DRG?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN7QmswyoJg[/ame]

Feared. That's who DRG is.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14186296*
> GSL finals will be @ Blizzcon!!!


yep, should be interesting!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14186479*
> MVP DongRaeGu


already knew name, was wondering who he was(race/skill level/accomplishments, etc...)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14187276*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN7QmswyoJg
> 
> Feared. That's who DRG is.


I see.....


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hey, any silver/gold level players up for a game or two? If so feel free to add me.
Phaedrus
831


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;14188824*
> Hey, any silver/gold level players up for a game or two? If so feel free to add me.
> Phaedrus
> 831


Done and GG


----------



## poroboszcz

Is there a reason why almost every single protoss i meet on ladder opens with phoenixes? My win rate in PvP went up from around 50 to near 90% in the last few days Oo


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Hey, any silver/gold level players up for a game or two? If so feel free to add me.
Phaedrus
831


Sometimes I wish SC2 was intercontinental


----------



## taintedmind

What's up with all this 2raxx'ing?


----------



## Alex132

Tainted, add me on SC2; 
Fluke132 
number = 214

And 2 rax is no where as irritating as when I pull off a 6 rax


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Tainted, add me on SC2; 
Fluke132 
number = 214

And 2 rax is no where as irritating as when I pull off a 6 rax










2 rax is annoying :/ 6rax is easy to defend tho


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Is there a reason why almost every single protoss i meet on ladder opens with phoenixes? My win rate in PvP went up from around 50 to near 90% in the last few days Oo


I eat toss for breakfast. Bane drop NomNom


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


2 rax is annoying :/ 6rax is easy to defend tho










Not when you're Z.


----------



## taintedmind

;D


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Not when you're Z.


my sig says zerg







roach > early rine


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*











;D


Lol that's about it. Zerg's micro is ******ed, but well rewarded. I honestly believe that Terran and Protoss have about the same micro, but when it's TvP, I think P has to do more of it then T does.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


Lol that's about it. Zerg's micro is ******ed, but well rewarded. I honestly believe that Terran and Protoss have about the same micro, but when it's TvP, I think P has to do more of it then T does.










not sure if srs...

zerg micro is being careful and getting surround. why is that ******ed?

and tvp







toss is ez mode







FF click click, a-move. win

terran micro is most rewarding ie bling


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*









not sure if srs...

zerg micro is being careful and getting surround. why is that ******ed?

and tvp







toss is ez mode







FF click click, a-move. win

terran micro is most rewarding ie bling


???

Have you played all three races? I've played over 100 games of each. I won't go into all the details of each, but the biggest thing is avoiding storms and keeping medivacs back and then pushing "t." Toss is simple too, getting storms together and using forcefields and shields and keeping colossi micro'd. etc.

Zerg has a lot more to do, but in my opinion it is the most rewarded. I consider myself "good" with Zerg, I'm rank one on my ladder in Plat currently, so I'm not horrible. Took much longer to learn, and if you're micro isn't very good, then you'll lose most likely.

Now, when I say the other races are "easier" it's not by much. It's Starcraft after all. Each race has a ton to get right in order to win, but some are slightly easier to learn than others.


----------



## holynorth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311*


???

Have you played all three races? I've played over 100 games of each. I won't go into all the details of each, but the biggest thing is avoiding storms and keeping medivacs back and then pushing "t." Toss is simple too, getting storms together and using forcefields and shields and keeping colossi micro'd. etc.

Zerg has a lot more to do, but in my opinion it is the most rewarded. I consider myself "good" with Zerg, I'm rank one on my ladder in Plat currently, so I'm not horrible. Took much longer to learn, and if you're micro isn't very good, then you'll lose most likely.

Now, when I say the other races are "easier" it's not by much. It's Starcraft after all. Each race has a ton to get right in order to win, but some are slightly easier to learn than others.


I have no idea how good of a player you are nor the skill level of your opponents.

But high level TvP is insane. The terran must pre-split their army to avoid game ending FF's or storm. They must then maintain their army position post-initiation to not have FF's prevent half their army from not attacking. They must then micro the portion of the army being attacked by zealots. They must also occupy themselves with the snipe vs feedback battle while keeping emp's on the protoss army.

Not sure where you think that is easy.

Zerg is usually considered lower on the micro side. You simply get good positioning and A-move.


----------



## yks

I will withold my opinion because I'm not a pro, but words from a pro:

Morrow, probably the best EU Zerg, would say Zerg has the easiest micro.

source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=231146
dated last month.


----------



## yks

SOTG on


----------



## murderbymodem

Season 3 delayed by a whole week


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14191784*
> What's up with all this 2raxx'ing?


What's with a standard Terran opener? I don't know whats up with hatch first?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;14192463*
> Lol that's about it. Zerg's micro is ******ed, but well rewarded. I honestly believe that Terran and Protoss have about the same micro, but when it's TvP, I think P has to do more of it then T does.


TvP micro is like the match up as a whole, at first its up to Protoss to do the best micro when Terran is strongest, but as the game goes on its up to Terran to do the best micro when Protoss is strongest. Early its harder for P, later its harder for T.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14192327*
> http://memearchive.net/memerial.net/page/1058.jpg
> 
> ;D


Good comic for Bronze-Gold leaguers







. I wish they made one for high level.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196743*
> What's with a standard Terran opener? I don't know whats up with hatch first?
> 
> TvP micro is like the match up as a whole, at first its up to Protoss to do the best micro when Terran is strongest, but as the game goes on its up to Terran to do the best micro when Protoss is strongest. Early its harder for P, later its harder for T.
> 
> Good comic for Bronze-Gold leaguers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I wish they made one for high level.


Ya, a friend of mine is a Toss player, was rank 1 Diamond both season 1 and this current season, but slowly got beaten back all the way to platinum league. He HATES fighting against Terran, but he always tries to fight too much early on, when all terran has to do is back pedal and stim to avoid zlots.

I told him to take it to the late game with colossi, but he said that's no good either. He just hates Terran.

Like how all terran players hate toss.







It's pretty funny lolz.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;14196854*
> Ya, a friend of mine is a Toss player, was rank 1 Diamond both season 1 and this current season, but slowly got beaten back all the way to platinum league. He HATES fighting against Terran, but he always tries to fight too much early on, when all terran has to do is back pedal and stim to avoid zlots.
> 
> I told him to take it to the late game with colossi, but he said that's no good either. He just hates Terran.
> 
> Like how all terran players hate toss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty funny lolz.


I don't think I'd hate toss if it wasn't for the Colossus. I just hate that unit







.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196879*
> I don't think I'd hate toss if it wasn't for the Colossus. I just hate that unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


If you scout an early colossus tech..don't show vikings and 2 port viking it. It will completely wreck any colossi build..guaranteed.

I'm getting pissed off with ladder. Sometimes I'm favored vs GM, and then I'm not favored vs ppl w/ 300 pts in Masters...stupid b.net.


----------



## DoomDash

Maybe its broken. I have never got a match vs a GM yet







.

Yes I know how to deal with colossus but I think its lame and I think they are too easy to use considering how much I need to prepare.


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196980*
> Maybe its broken. I have never got a match vs a GM yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yes I know how to deal with colossus but I think its lame and I think they are too easy to use considering how much I need to prepare.


Ehh...1-2 scans and you can see most of any maps main...so preparing isn't an excuse imo. Besides all you have to do is kill the colossi once (or the sentries), and then its ez mode.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14191394*
> Is there a reason why almost every single protoss i meet on ladder opens with phoenixes? My win rate in PvP went up from around 50 to near 90% in the last few days Oo


Blame MC!







He almost always opens with stargates(after some gateways of course) and goes heavy phoenixes. They aren't great against P, but, against T/Z, stargate openings are awesome and I plan to add them into my game








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;14194177*
> ???
> 
> Have you played all three races? I've played over 100 games of each. I won't go into all the details of each, but the biggest thing is avoiding storms and keeping medivacs back and then pushing "t." Toss is simple too, getting storms together and using forcefields and shields and keeping colossi micro'd. etc.
> 
> Zerg has a lot more to do, but in my opinion it is the most rewarded. I consider myself "good" with Zerg, I'm rank one on my ladder in Plat currently, so I'm not horrible. Took much longer to learn, and if you're micro isn't very good, then you'll lose most likely.
> 
> Now, when I say the other races are "easier" it's not by much. It's Starcraft after all. Each race has a ton to get right in order to win, but some are slightly easier to learn than others.


nah, Zerg has the easiest micro in the form of getting the best surround possible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196743*
> TvP micro is like the match up as a whole, at first its up to Protoss to do the best micro when Terran is strongest, but as the game goes on its up to Terran to do the best micro when Protoss is strongest. Early its harder for P, later its harder for T.


True indeed








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196980*
> Maybe its broken. I have never got a match vs a GM yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yes I know how to deal with colossus but I think its lame and I think they are too easy to use considering how much I need to prepare.


Maybe the reaver can make a comeback in HoTS instead of colossi? As for the match, well, you haven't been playing much lately, so, not sure how you can get GM opponents then if you are winning enough games to get your MMR to rocket up(a guess







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;14196927*
> I'm getting pissed off with ladder. Sometimes I'm favored vs GM, and then I'm not favored vs ppl w/ 300 pts in Masters...stupid b.net.


Yep, issue with ladder it seems, was locked about 2 days back and ppl couldn't log in. Glad to see that at least you can get a game going








Any of you guys up for a game now?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;14197005*
> Ehh...1-2 scans and you can see most of any maps main...so preparing isn't an excuse imo. Besides all you have to do is kill the colossi once (or the sentries), and then its ez mode.


I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. It's just a lame unit as I always say, needs to be gone and replaced with something that's high risk high reward instead of high reward very little risk.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14197083*
> I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. It's just a lame unit as I always say, needs to be gone and replaced with something that's high risk high reward instead of high reward very little risk.


hmm, while I think bringing back something like the reaver would be great, my only concern is that the units in SCII clump tightly which means that you can get a TON of worker kills by just dropping a single reaver in a mineral line and they try to escape. In other words, I think the reaver would be OP in SCII due to unit packing


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14197096*
> hmm, while I think bringing back something like the reaver would be great, my only concern is that the units in SCII clump tightly which means that you can get a TON of worker kills by just dropping a single reaver in a mineral line and they try to escape. In other words, I think the reaver would be OP in SCII due to unit packing


Not really, that's the high reward part of it, but what happens if you lose the drop ship to one random viking or some marines? That's the high risk part of it. That is perfect. You can still move your workers as yks always says much easier in SCII than you could in SC1, because of the max amount of select-able units.

Plus if you go by that logic things like blue flame hellions are incredibly broken since they have little risk and can probably destroy worker lines near what a Reaver would do, and only at the cost of minerals ( though I do think Hellions are broken, not imbalanced, but broken, they need a nerf and buff at the same time. Too strong at killing workers, but need to be still good vs light and maybe a little more well rounded ).


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14197117*
> Not really, that's the high reward part of it, but what happens if you lose the drop ship to one random viking or some marines? That's the high risk part of it. That is perfect. You can still move your workers as yks always says much easier in SCII than you could in SC1, because of the max amount of select-able units.
> 
> Plus if you go by that logic things like blue flame hellions are incredibly broken since they have little risk and can probably destroy worker lines near what a Reaver would do, and only at the cost of minerals ( though I do think Hellions are broken, not imbalanced, but broken, they need a nerf and buff at the same time. Too strong at killing workers, but need to be still good vs light and maybe a little more well rounded ).


IMO blue flame hellions are too efficient at killing workers. The thing is, with hellions, you still need two hits to kill a probe but with a reaver, a single one can kill like 20 probes especially if you consider that when they run away they form a line so a shot near the front of the lines means all or almost all of your workers are gone. Might as well GG







I do agree about the risk part though, its only the reward part which seems really high if you pull it out(chances are some poor sap will miss the dropship and lose all his workers).


----------



## cory1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14197117*
> Not really, that's the high reward part of it, but what happens if you lose the drop ship to one random viking or some marines? That's the high risk part of it. That is perfect. You can still move your workers as yks always says much easier in SCII than you could in SC1, because of the max amount of select-able units.
> 
> Plus if you go by that logic things like blue flame hellions are incredibly broken since they have little risk and can probably destroy worker lines near what a Reaver would do, and only at the cost of minerals ( though I do think Hellions are broken, not imbalanced, but broken, they need a nerf and buff at the same time. Too strong at killing workers, but need to be still good vs light and maybe a little more well rounded ).


The fact is Colossus are not that good imo. Once a terran gets 6-8 vikings it's almost one shot. Colossus are clunky. I've grown tired of qqing over imba this imba that, but if any unit in the game is the "most" cost effective, it is the blue flame hellions. Not that I rarely lose to terrans who do that, just in general it barely costs anything to decimate mineral lines.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234;14197216*
> The fact is Colossus are not that good imo. Once a terran gets 6-8 vikings it's almost one shot. Colossus are clunky. I've grown tired of qqing over imba this imba that, but if any unit in the game is the "most" cost effective, it is the blue flame hellions. Not that I rarely lose to terrans who do that, just in general it barely costs anything to decimate mineral lines.


I am not saying its imbalanced, I am saying its too good for its use. Yes Vikings pwn them but any unit that forces a unit that is complete junk outside of its one intended use is poor design IMO ( also creates less creative play because you literally have to have vikings or you have no chance ). I just will never be happy until the unskillful Colossus is replaced by the mega awesome skillful and exciting Reaver. I'm, saying this as a former BW random player, toss being my best race, Protoss is designed so bad and boring now.

and 100% agree with BFH, they are dumb and need some change.


----------



## DoomDash

Did I mention that on TL the Colossus was voted the most boring unit in the game by FAR? I think anyone who follows the high level community knows it needs to be changed or replaced. Colossus even beat out the Corrupter as most boring unit lol.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-s-MJ2Leo[/ame]


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196980*
> Maybe its broken. I have never got a match vs a GM yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Yes I know how to deal with colossus but I think its lame and I think they are too easy to use considering how much I need to prepare.


i get matched with gms occasionally and some are srsly bad







not a godd representation of higher skill levels if u ask me


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14192327*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ;D


I love you


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14197161*
> IMO blue flame hellions are too efficient at killing workers. The thing is, with hellions, you still need two hits to kill a probe but with a reaver, a single one can kill like 20 probes especially if you consider that when they run away they form a line so a shot near the front of the lines means all or almost all of your workers are gone. Might as well GG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do agree about the risk part though, its only the reward part which seems really high if you pull it out(chances are some poor sap will miss the dropship and lose all his workers).


Bf Helions are op







not only in killing works but in team games, it soooo broken


----------



## DoomDash

Damn Sangers you are higher than me, what a jerk







.

I will do better next season I think, had a rough season.

What's your code I love playing TvZ?

Also took the liberty of adding you to our oc.net division.

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14198130*
> Damn Sangers you are higher than me, what a jerk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will do better next season I think, had a rough season.
> 
> What's your code I love playing TvZ?
> 
> Also took the liberty of adding you to our Overclock.net division.
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/


Rofl more like "I eat toss for breakfast" zvp and zvz is most fun to play regardless of winrate for me

i dun think i can play a lot in s3 tho :/, cause i have school and i need to get back in gm in SEA


----------



## DoomDash

Why don't you like ZvT? Most people think TvZ is the best MU in the game. I would have to agree.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14198175*
> Why don't you like ZvT? Most people think TvZ is the best MU in the game. I would have to agree.


I just think pvz is more fun to play







defending harass and running away to hit backdoor isnt in my nature

pvz on the otherhand...







and i have like 7-80 ish winrate for that as well xD


----------



## Sangers_low

btw gsl in an hour


----------



## yks

sangers, you GM in sea? whats your name over there.


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14196879*
> I don't think I'd hate toss if it wasn't for the Colossus. I just hate that unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Oddly enough, i love playing against P, it's my best matchup.
Granted, i'm only in silver, but i haven't lost to a protoss in about 15 matches


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Damn Sangers you are higher than me,* what a jerk







. *

I will do better next season I think, had a rough season.

What's your code I love playing TvZ?


rofl. Thing is, you aren't even on much. How do you expect to pass him then?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Bf Helions are op







not only in killing works but in team games, it soooo broken


hehe.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Why don't you like ZvT? Most people think TvZ is the best MU in the game. I would have to agree.


because once a Z gets a 3rd base up, it's GG. That's my side of it anyways







Not sure about Sangers though.


----------



## Elmateo487

I love SC2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


rofl. Thing is, you aren't even on much. How do you expect to pass him then?









hehe.

because once a Z gets a 3rd base up, it's GG. That's my side of it anyways







Not sure about Sangers though.


It's still winnable with Z on 3 base.


----------



## taintedmind

BF Helions are waaaaay too powerful against everything considered light. O_O

Rubbish against everything else so I guess that makes them even in the end. x)

On a side note, I noticed today that roaches has 3 eyes. Humhf. The more you know.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


It's still winnable with Z on 3 base.


what he said. ghosts soft counter infestors and hard counter broodlords.

Quote:



BF Helions are waaaaay too powerful against everything considered light. O_O

Rubbish against everything else so I guess that makes them even in the end. x)

On a side note, I noticed today that roaches has 3 eyes. Humhf. The more you know.


Nerf bf like reapers







armoury before bf anyone? also, roaches are sexy beasts


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


rofl. Thing is, you aren't even on much. How do you expect to pass him then?










I got myself a free sea+na key. gonna try to snipe into gm if i get some time







, wait but i have none


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


sangers, you GM in sea? whats your name over there.


until i get back in.... SECRET


----------



## Sangers_low

http://www.teamliquid.net/tournament...stered_players

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=243297

http://i.imgur.com/p7m8x.png


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think ghosts hard counter BL, it depends on a lot of things. Siege tanks will kill your ghosts if you are sieged, and if you are unsieged you potentially just get 1Aed. Maybe if Ghosts and BL's were by themselves







.

Anyway I suck vs Protoss now. Got my TvZ fine and now I can't beat Toss,







.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't think ghosts hard counter BL, it depends on a lot of things. Siege tanks will kill your ghosts if you are sieged, and if you are unsieged you potentially just get 1Aed. Maybe if Ghosts and BL's were by themselves







.

Anyway I suck vs Protoss now. Got my TvZ fine and now I can't beat Toss,







.


cloak + snipe. btw i love toss


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


cloak + snipe. btw i love toss


Won't have enough snipes then. You also have to EMP / Snipe infestors too which is the problem.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Won't have enough snipes then. You also have to EMP / Snipe infestors too which is the problem.


emp on inf first, snipe on bl. They drop like flies


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*   emp on inf first, snipe on bl. They drop like flies  
Do that, still harder for Terran at that point







. I have some ghost mech replays on gamereplays.org.

Anyway, nice video:

  
 You Tube  



 

Terran micro <3


----------



## Kreeker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do that, still harder for Terran at that point







. I have some ghost mech replays on gamereplays.org.

Anyway, nice video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90U9RCLOcak

Terran micro <3


Insane.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Do that, still harder for Terran at that point







. I have some ghost mech replays on gamereplays.org.

Anyway, nice video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90U9RCLOcak

Terran micro <3


it's mkp









terran micro has the highest skill cap.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


it's mkp









terran micro has the highest skill cap.


Yeah it does. Now I should try harder to make mine better.


----------



## taintedmind

^ Pff.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah it does. Now I should try harder to make mine better.


cause of ladder lock and sea thingy, i just use a smurf in na these days 
u know, challenge and beat dia/m/gm who bm people cause of their league...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


^ Pff.


Truth. Sangers said it and look at his race







. I was just agreeing.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Truth. Sangers said it and look at his race







. I was just agreeing.


terran micro requires highest apm, zerg brains, toss...eh ur fine with just a mouse


----------



## taintedmind

Pff.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taintedmind*


Pff.


----------



## Sangers_low

btw i need a mouse quick D: any recommendations? >50 need one quick


----------



## mfb412

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


btw i need a mouse quick D: any recommendations? >50 need one quick


Logitech G400


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14204803*
> I don't think ghosts hard counter BL, it depends on a lot of things. Siege tanks will kill your ghosts if you are sieged, and if you are unsieged you potentially just get 1Aed. Maybe if Ghosts and BL's were by themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Anyway I suck vs Protoss now. Got my TvZ fine and now I can't beat Toss,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14205724*
> btw i need a mouse quick D: any recommendations? >50 need one quick


Any mouse works. I'm using some 10 year old hp keyboard and some 5 year old microsoft mouse








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14205237*
> cause of ladder lock and sea thingy, i just use a smurf in na these days
> u know, challenge and beat dia/m/gm who bm people cause of their league...


hehe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taintedmind;14205388*
> Pff.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14205383*
> terran micro requires highest apm, zerg brains, toss...eh ur fine with just a mouse


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14205146*
> Yeah it does. Now I should try harder to make mine better.


They speak da truth. I find that I'm most relaxed playing as Zerg and least relaxed as T, somewhere in the middle for P.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14203476*
> It's still winnable with Z on 3 base.


Well, you are correct, it is winnable, it just depends if I keep up with my scouting, right unit composition, good micro(splits, blink, etc....), macro and know what my enemy is doing at all times.
Having said that, I just won a PvsZ just now







I did all the things mentioned aside from some bad macro at one point(only 54 workers or so on three bases) but I did some early pressure that caused him to lose 10 drones, a queen and overmake slings. That and getting a third, double forge for fast upgrades(was 0/0 to his 2/2 early on, eventually surpassed him), had an idea of his composition and kept building my force as I repelled his attacks. I'll post the replay for anyone who is interested in watching for fun


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14205383*
> terran micro requires highest apm, zerg brains, toss...eh ur fine with just a mouse


----------



## DoomDash

PTR is finally up with the new maps. Add me on PTR : DoomDash 190 if you want to play.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14206921*
> PTR is finally up with the new maps. Add me on PTR : DoomDash 190 if you want to play.


Sweet, going to check it out, bigfan 707!









Edit:
PvsZ that I played earlier today:

Aside from some mistakes that I've made and stopping worker production at some points, I would say I played decently well for a MU that I get every full moon









Edit2: Updating PTR, can't wait to try the new maps!








Edit3: Love this update(bolded):
- A special sneak peek at new ladder maps is now available!
*- Several performance and memory improvements have been made.*
- "Player Left" messages will once again appear in replays.
- The Hellion's Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade icon has been updated (now with more blue flames!).
ROFL at ^^


----------



## Mwarren

The new maps look like crap, Blizzard loves their 2 base maps.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14207071*
> The new maps look like crap, Blizzard loves their 2 base maps.


agreed. i'd rather play zvz xnc only in all ladder than those horrible maps, especially that macro map... *** situational imba spawn?....

blizzard should just quit map making and leave it to koreans >_> oh and balance also


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=243696


----------



## DoomDash

A little preview of Terran hot spots in 1.3.5. The last one was inspired by Boxer







. The one showing the racks is just showing a nice 3 rax wall off location defending your nat.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14208873*
> A little preview of Terran hot spots in 1.3.5. The last one was inspired by Boxer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The one showing the racks is just showing a nice 3 rax wall off location defending your nat.


That tower is impossible to get due to that gap! Fail on design







As for pic 3, had I waited for more BLs and corruptors/mutas, I might've taken that









41min TvsZ on PTR:

We went into the late game. Went up against most Z units aside from BLs(thank god) and hydras. Good ol' BCs came in handy


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14205724*
> btw i need a mouse quick D: any recommendations? >50 need one quick


Deathadder.


----------



## DoomDash

OK so far I don't like 1 and 2, but I do like 3 and 4.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK so far I don't like 1 and 2, but I do like 3 and 4.


I hate them all.

looking at the maps, looks like they picked the worst maps in season 2 and multiplied/recycled them









despite the nerfs and buffs, terran still has the highest winrate







these maps will not be about macro/micro, but more like take the hill kinda game with terrans fortifying positions and cutting off zerg gas

i might just play in sea







less terrans, cheesers, input delay and more zvz









also what do u think about cm spawn?


----------



## DoomDash

cm spawn?

I think the maps are better than Z are giving them credit. Map 1 and 2 though as I said are meh.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14215640*
> cm spawn?
> 
> I think the maps are better than Z are giving them credit. Map 1 and 2 though as I said are meh.


mouse, i need a new one









i also hate the design







why no pretty maps like b.beach or talda?


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14215640*
> cm spawn?
> 
> I think the maps are better than Z are giving them credit. Map 1 and 2 though as I said are meh.


Are there some nice counter attack paths?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah and tons of flanking areas, plenty of expansions, ect.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14216903*
> Yeah and tons of flanking areas, plenty of expansions, ect.


flanking is my middle name







wait wut??


----------



## DoomDash

Won my geforce match, now 6-0. I also won a match in the starcraftcentral tournament and I am in the finals.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14220202*
> Won my geforce match, now 6-0. I also won a match in the starcraftcentral tournament and I am in the finals.


gratz


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Won my geforce match, now 6-0. I also won a match in the starcraftcentral tournament and I am in the finals.


Tell the truth now...







how many of those wins were cheese


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elmateo487;14220657*
> Tell the truth now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how many of those wins were cheese


0.

Anyway, more PTR screens for you guys







.

Don't make your spire here:


----------



## treguo

Is there a way to record GSL stream so you can rewatch it in the future?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treguo;14222195*
> Is there a way to record GSL stream so you can rewatch it in the future?


Buy a pass







.


----------



## treguo

I already do; I want to record it so I can keep it on my hd.


----------



## DoomDash

They don't have an option to download VOD's? I've seen them on certain sites before.

Also omg qxc vs Gumiho !!!! was crazy good.


----------



## Sangers_low

FXO fighting!


----------



## treguo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14222483*
> They don't have an option to download VOD's? I've seen them on certain sites before.
> 
> Also omg qxc vs Gumiho !!!! was crazy good.


115+ worker killed..

L
O
L

and the thing is, the player in vod's are flash based, so it's not like I can manipulate the html code to record the stream.

On a side note, I've always hated Choyafou's attitude during competitive games.


----------



## Sangers_low

wow byun O_O... btw apparently 'byun' means TURD in korean







And his b.net name is ZenexExcrement or something D: Trololo


----------



## DoomDash

http://pixelatedgeek.com/2011/07/starcraft-universe-releases-first-full-trailer/

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mZNrzKLO5I&[/ame]


----------



## HarrisLam

kinda want to try out zerg, but dont really know wheree to start

tried playing medium AI, he came out to be terran, it was real easy mode cuz i took the hatch first strat (i suppose thats the easiest to start)

fighting probably wont be a big trouble to learn, and i suppose ill pick up feelings about when to get gas and when to get tech later on, but theres something about the basic mechanic i dont understand, like:

the hatch base and the larve/eggs. do they have separate rally points? I got really really confused through clicking. I was trying to hot key them but it didnt work as good as i want. I mean if a larve just spawned 0.5 sec before i click my already-existing larve, the new one wont respond to my clicks before i actually cancel/click something else and re-click my base, right?

I got so frustrated after a while i just use my mouse to build units


----------



## dcloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14229652*
> kinda want to try out zerg, but dont really know wheree to start
> 
> tried playing medium AI, he came out to be terran, it was real easy mode cuz i took the hatch first strat (i suppose thats the easiest to start)
> 
> fighting probably wont be a big trouble to learn, and i suppose ill pick up feelings about when to get gas and when to get tech later on, but theres something about the basic mechanic i dont understand, like:
> 
> the hatch base and the larve/eggs. do they have separate rally points? I got really really confused through clicking. I was trying to hot key them but it didnt work as good as i want. I mean if a larve just spawned 0.5 sec before i click my already-existing larve, the new one wont respond to my clicks before i actually cancel/click something else and re-click my base, right?
> 
> I got so frustrated after a while i just use my mouse to build units


You can set two rally points for your hatchery. The white rally line will be where your attacking units will rally. The orange line is where your drones will be rallied too. Usually, this orange rally will be on a mineral patch whether at the corresponding base or at another base.

You can also set individual rally points for eggs that have not hatched yet. This rally will supersede the rally you set on your hatchery.

I hope this clears some things up. I wish I could help more, but there are some points in your post I didn't really understand.

Anyways! Welcome to the Zerg Brethren.

EDIT: I forgot to talk about strats ;D
The hatch first strategy is the riskiest strategy to open with in my opinion. Anything delaying the spawning pool can be risky. Hatch first can be very beneficial on certain maps, spawn locations, and proper scouting.

But, for somebody just starting out with Zerg. The safest opening for many Zerg players is getting a gas extractor @ 14 supply, spawning pool @ 13, 3 drones on gas ASAP when extractor is done. This opening will ensure that once the spawning pool finishes, you will have enough gas to begin zergling speed. This will allow you to defend any early pressure, harass, and scout more efficiently.


----------



## Kreeker

I'm starting to get running out of paged pool memory errors while playing... Why is this..? I have 8.2gb of space being dedicated to paging files...


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dcloud;14231624*
> You can set two rally points for your hatchery. The white rally line will be where your attacking units will rally. The orange line is where your drones will be rallied too. Usually, this orange rally will be on a mineral patch whether at the corresponding base or at another base.
> 
> You can also set individual rally points for eggs that have not hatched yet. This rally will supersede the rally you set on your hatchery.
> 
> I hope this clears some things up. I wish I could help more, but there are some points in your post I didn't really understand.
> 
> Anyways! Welcome to the Zerg Brethren.
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to talk about strats ;D
> The hatch first strategy is the riskiest strategy to open with in my opinion. Anything delaying the spawning pool can be risky. Hatch first can be very beneficial on certain maps, spawn locations, and proper scouting.
> 
> But, for somebody just starting out with Zerg. The safest opening for many Zerg players is getting a gas extractor @ 14 supply, spawning pool @ 13, 3 drones on gas ASAP when extractor is done. This opening will ensure that once the spawning pool finishes, you will have enough gas to begin zergling speed. This will allow you to defend any early pressure, harass, and scout more efficiently.


i'm a horrible zerg, but like my hatches FIRST


----------



## Sangers_low

Why u SO OLD Doomdash


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Why u SO OLD Doomdash


















. I was playing SC1 @ 14 years old in 1998







.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kreeker*


I'm starting to get running out of paged pool memory errors while playing... Why is this..? I have 8.2gb of space being dedicated to paging files...


that is strange

this problem happened to my older computer that is core 2 duo E8400(3.0G), 4G ram and ATI 4870
the message will pop up after less than an hour

i searched for a fix online, it kind of worked(i think it didnt completely work because its too old after all) and extended the message appear time to like 2 hours

ive never had this problem with sig rig
considering your computer is even better than my sig, you should search for a fix online

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dcloud*


You can set two rally points for your hatchery. The white rally line will be where your attacking units will rally. The orange line is where your drones will be rallied too. Usually, this orange rally will be on a mineral patch whether at the corresponding base or at another base.

You can also set individual rally points for eggs that have not hatched yet. This rally will supersede the rally you set on your hatchery.

I hope this clears some things up. I wish I could help more, but there are some points in your post I didn't really understand.

Anyways! Welcome to the Zerg Brethren.

EDIT: I forgot to talk about strats ;D
The hatch first strategy is the riskiest strategy to open with in my opinion. Anything delaying the spawning pool can be risky. Hatch first can be very beneficial on certain maps, spawn locations, and proper scouting.

But, for somebody just starting out with Zerg. The safest opening for many Zerg players is getting a gas extractor @ 14 supply, spawning pool @ 13, 3 drones on gas ASAP when extractor is done. This opening will ensure that once the spawning pool finishes, you will have enough gas to begin zergling speed. This will allow you to defend any early pressure, harass, and scout more efficiently.


thanks for you reply!!

but dont get all excited now, i wasn't about to jump on board to the zerg team

i want to learn zerg's mechanics just so i can play against it a little better









by the way i guess its just medium AI being too easy, and i happened to go roaches when AI came for me the 2nd time and i owned it with them









reason i wanted hatch first is that i dont even know what i can build with zerg, i just figured well, with more hatches i get more eggs and i spawn lings faster, haha

just noobing around, and having excess resources feels great


----------



## Sangers_low

Holy Check


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14232732*
> Why u SO OLD Doomdash










OLD = experience









BTW, CALM WHERE ARE THOU?!
A vacation isn't a whole month, only 1-2 weeks


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
Kinda shocked that XC is my worst map :


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14233097*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was playing SC1 @ 14 years old in 1998
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hahah I was 10 then. I was playing wc2 during those days however.


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14244199*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMO88qGgXTg&
> 
> Kinda shocked that XC is my worst map :


How'd you pull up your map stats?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing;14248056*
> How'd you pull up your map stats?


SC2gears does it for you and its free


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14233097*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was playing SC1 @ 14 years old in 1998
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


SC2 is my first Blizzard RTS :/


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14248376*
> SC2gears does it for you and its free


Awesome! Thank ya.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14248531*
> SC2 is my first Blizzard RTS :/


hehe, SCI was my first RTS, but, SCII was my actual first RTS followed by BW!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing;14248603*
> Awesome! Thank ya.


np









Here are my stats. Comparison is done between season 1 and season 2:








Anyone notice an interesting stat(s)?


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14249157*
> hehe, SCI was my first RTS, but, SCII was my actual first RTS followed by BW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> np
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my stats. Comparison is done between season 1 and season 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone notice an interesting stat?


Your games don't last very long hahaha. But for some reason I can't find that menu screen when I dl'ed sc2gears.


----------



## Starman27

I just picked up the game yesterday (I know, super late to the party), but was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to get started at becoming competent in mp. I have watched a bunch of streams, and know the basics in theory, but haven't executed them myself. Just working through the campaign right now, but was hoping someone could give me some tips, or even be kind enough to chat with me so I could ask questions if I ever have them come up. Thanks a lot!

Feel free to add me on Steam-Swarley27, Skype-Duogmegost, or In game-VeiledAiel, if you're willing to chat. Thanks again.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Starman27;14249655*
> I just picked up the game yesterday (I know, super late to the party), but was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to get started at becoming competent in mp. I have watched a bunch of streams, and know the basics in theory, but haven't executed them myself. Just working through the campaign right now, but was hoping someone could give me some tips, or even be kind enough to chat with me so I could ask questions if I ever have them come up. Thanks a lot!
> 
> Feel free to add me on Steam-Swarley27, Skype-Duogmegost, or In game-VeiledAiel, if you're willing to chat. Thanks again.


Which server r u in mate?

Since u have been watching streams, chances r that u are aware of basic strategies and unit compositions. So, my advice is practise ur mechanics. Also, try as random first, find a race that u enjoy macroing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Starman27;14249655*
> I just picked up the game yesterday (I know, super late to the party), but was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to get started at becoming competent in mp. I have watched a bunch of streams, and know the basics in theory, but haven't executed them myself. Just working through the campaign right now, but was hoping someone could give me some tips, or even be kind enough to chat with me so I could ask questions if I ever have them come up. Thanks a lot!
> 
> Feel free to add me on Steam-Swarley27, Skype-Duogmegost, or In game-VeiledAiel, if you're willing to chat. Thanks again.


First thing first, hang out in overclock.net when you are on. Jediwin, myself, and others would be more than willing to help.


----------



## Starman27

Sangers,
I'm on NA server (that's all I know, is there a way to see more specifically?), just registered for the practice league, haven't actually played a mp game yet, and figure I'll still be placed in bronze anyways, but if I can practice enough to get into silver before I play, then it's worth it imo







. I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to games, so am trying to prepare myself as much as possible before i do anything that counts. Thanks a lot for the random tip, I had been worried about what race to go, but figured I would play terran at first since I have campaign experience.

Edit: And thanks Doom, I just hopped on the channel.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


Sangers,
I'm on NA server (that's all I know, is there a way to see more specifically?), just registered for the practice league, haven't actually played a mp game yet, and figure I'll still be placed in bronze anyways, but if I can practice enough to get into silver before I play, then it's worth it imo







. I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to games, so am trying to prepare myself as much as possible before i do anything that counts. Thanks a lot for the random tip, I had been worried about what race to go, but figured I would play terran at first since I have campaign experience.

Edit: And thanks Doom, I just hopped on the channel.


For BSG easiest race to hardest: T, P, Z
but terran skill curve is far higher than toss









I picked zerg cause it's a COMMI race. True Story

I might join u guys later, with my main or my smurf

I'm in school atm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing*


Your games don't last very long hahaha. But for some reason I can't find that menu screen when I dl'ed sc2gears.


rofl, I meant my 16% TvsP record and 88% instead of 55% for ZvsT


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14250192*
> rofl, I meant my 16% TvsP record and 88% instead of 55% for ZvsT


And ur apm is slow







srsly tho 18min isnt short


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


And ur apm is slow







srsly tho 18min isnt short


hehe, 112APM from 85 APM in season 1, I think that's an improvement







I agree though, 18min isn't short, it's a good game average, but, I've had games that went into 1+hr and those are exhausting. IT feels great when you finally win







That and I think my win rate this season is 54%, last used to be about 50% or so.

@Gohan_Nightwing Menu screen? When you dl SC2gears and open it, on the left side, there should be a list. I think one was replay anaylzer. Click on new, find directory and watch it list some stuff. Then right click your id and click show player or whatever it was(last option as I recall). Then you'll get the stats with MUs, maps, etc....


----------



## DoomDash

Well such a small sample size is hard to accurately judge.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well such a small sample size is hard to accurately judge.


Of course but its all I have atm









Just played this TvsT on Plateau:

Oh how I love reapers







That and I triple exp'd for the first time ever XD


----------



## DoomDash

OK so I am now officially 7-0 in the Geforce tournament. Wonder how the next rounds will work?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK so I am now officially 7-0 in the Geforce tournament. Wonder how the next rounds will work?


GJ, keep it up! Next time you post, it better be to say that you won the tourney


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


terran micro requires highest apm, zerg brains, toss...eh ur fine with just a mouse










Sad part is I felt that way in Brood War.

Any former BW players remember when Toss was that 1a2a3a race to victory or just spam DTs to get D+ quickly on Iccup server?

Terran players needed high APM C rank and higher on Iccup. I remember trying to get C rank on Iccup as Terran and wanting to break my computer everytime I got mine dragged by zealots or getting caught unsieged by Protoss 1a2a army or hoping that the scarab is a dud and doesn't annihilate my whole SCV worker line.

Zerg needed APM and patience with their scouting.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


Sad part is I felt that way in Brood War.

Any former BW players remember when Toss was that 1a2a3a race to victory or just spam DTs to get D+ quickly on Iccup server?

Terran players needed high APM C rank and higher on Iccup. I remember trying to get C rank on Iccup as Terran and wanting to break my computer everytime I got mine dragged by zealots or getting caught unsieged by Protoss 1a2a army or hoping that the scarab is a dud and doesn't annihilate my whole SCV worker line.

Zerg needed APM and patience with their scouting.


Yep I felt the same way. The reason I picked Terran in SCII instead of random ( like I was in BW ), was because I felt they were the most challenging + most rewarding.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yep I felt the same way. The reason I picked Terran in SCII instead of random ( like I was in BW ), was because I felt they were the most challenging + most rewarding.


In sc2, that role has been replaced by zerg


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


In sc2, that role has been replaced by zerg










Nope, still Terran. I was way higher rated with my Z in beta than T, much easier. T just cooler.

Though I'm a macro player >.<.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Nope, still Terran. I was way higher rated with my Z in beta than T, much easier. T just cooler.

Though I'm a macro player >.<.


Give Z a try and see how far you can get then once you hit a plateau, go back to T. Would be an interesting experience, though I don't think it'll be as easy as that in masters


----------



## DoomDash

I can already beat Masters the same score as me in ZvT, and I know I can crush at the very least high Diamond Protosses. I literally play Zerg like 5 times a month and they are damn near my Terran level with literally no understanding of timings or correct builds. There is no way you can get away with the same lack of knowledge as Terran, but as Zerg relying purely on your macro is more than enough to beat just about anyone in masters. Sure, I don't play Z much, but my Z is quite strong considering I just 1A and macro while building completely random.

But the reason I am not playing Zerg has nothing to do with potential, and everything to do with I just find playing them pretty boring ( Pretty boring when your units have such low skill caps ). Terran 4 lyfe. I could have been a Protoss if the Goon and Reaver were here though.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I can already beat Masters the same score as me in ZvT, and I know I can crush at the very least high Diamond Protosses. I literally play Zerg like 5 times a month and they are damn near my Terran level with literally no understanding of timings or correct builds. There is no way you can get away with the same lack of knowledge as Terran, but as Zerg relying purely on your macro is more than enough to beat just about anyone in masters. Sure, I don't play Z much, but my Z is quite strong considering I just 1A and macro while building completely random.

But the reason I am not playing Zerg has nothing to do with potential, and everything to do with I just find playing them pretty boring ( Pretty boring when your units have such low skill caps ). Terran 4 lyfe. I could have been a Protoss if the Goon and Reaver were here though.


uh.... No just no...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


uh.... No just no...


No what? I'm telling you fact for me ( my style ). Nothing to no about.

Go read Morrows interview about Zerg... says they have a low skill ceiling compared to P and T. It's true, so whats left? Macro and remember spawn larva w/ good decision making. If you are good at those you will be a good Z player.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No what? I'm telling you fact for me ( my style ). Nothing to no about.


There's a reason why zerg is still the race with lowest winrate, especially in kr. Zerg has no particular timing attacks, but u have to be aware of OTHER races' timing attacks. A-moving only works in diamond, and step micro can be done by bronze. Terran may have a high learning curve compared to toss, but they have the highest skill cap, thus making them most op in highest level.

If u can beat people with just macro+Amove, u either have losira macro, or ur mmr is low







And i find more satisfaction in defending a cheese than cheesing


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


No what? I'm telling you fact for me ( my style ). Nothing to no about.

Go read Morrows interview about Zerg... says they have a low skill ceiling compared to P and T. It's true, so whats left? Macro and remember spawn larva w/ good decision making. If you are good at those you will be a good Z player.


One guy's opinion. If such makes it true, look at idra's interview







(i dun like him btw)

Toss is most ez, but have low skill cap.


----------



## DoomDash

What does cheese have to do with anything. And my Zerg macro is good, obviously no where near losira, but it really doesn't take much to be effective with macro as Z in Masters.

Zerg doesn't have timing attacks because they are designed unpredictable in nature. This is what July builds his entire plan around. If you scout a Protoss or Terran you know exactly what's coming, but if you scout a Zerg it's incrediably difficult to predict exactly how much they will commit to something due to the spawn larva mechanic. So as Terran it is literally harder for me to predict a baneling bust than it is for a Zerg to predict something like a banshee rush, especially because Zerg has map control as soon as speed is finished. So yes, Zerg has no timing attack, instead the entire race is one unpredictable race than you can choose to macro with more effectively with than P or T, or choose to out produce T or P with more unpredictably. Don't even get me started on Zerg tech switches.

And yes Zerg micro is an absolute joke. There literally barely is any, and most of it consists of right clicks. Losira said he picked Zerg over Terran in SCII because the micro is easy, if you don't believe me I can bring up the interview. Morrow said Z micro is easy compared to P and T as well. I do agree it's difficult to be successful with Zerg at the highest level, of course, because at that level the endless skill cap of Terran starts to pay off like crazy. I also agree that they need more units that do reward high skill players. Still considering they don't have as many they do pretty well because of their superior macro and unpredictability.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What does cheese have to do with anything. And my Zerg macro is good, obviously no where near losira, but it really doesn't take much to be effective with macro as Z in Masters.

Zerg doesn't have timing attacks because they are designed unpredictable in nature. This is what July builds his entire plan around. If you scout a Protoss or Terran you know exactly what's coming, but if you scout a Zerg it's incrediably difficult to predict exactly how much they will commit to something due to the spawn larva mechanic. So as Terran it is literally harder for me to predict a baneling bust than it is for a Zerg to predict something like a banshee rush, especially because Zerg has map control as soon as speed is finished. So yes, Zerg has no timing attack, instead the entire race is one unpredictable race than you can choose to macro with more effectively with than P or T, or choose to out produce T or P with more unpredictably. Don't even get me started on Zerg tech switches.

And yes Zerg micro is an absolute joke. There literally barely is any, and most of it consists of right clicks. Losira said he picked Zerg over Terran in SCII because the micro is easy, if you don't believe me I can bring up the interview. Morrow said Z micro is easy compared to P and T as well. I do agree it's difficult to be successful with Zerg at the highest level, of course, because at that level the endless skill cap of Terran starts to pay off like crazy. I also agree that they need more units that do reward high skill players. Still considering they don't have as many they do pretty well because of their superior macro and unpredictability.


July performs bad BECAUSE of his "inconsistent" style. . Zerg can't form much of a "surprise" army composition like bf helions, Voids, dts and etc. Also scouting zerg is ridiculously easy. Zergs are supposed to counter and defend opponents to gain advantage. Micro for zerg is easier than t, but in high m+ toss is easier than both. Bling, muta, infestor, ling, roach, pretty much all z units cept hydras and broodlings require micro in higher levels to be effective. 
outta top 10 in the world, prolly 5-6 are t, 3-4 z, 1-2 p


----------



## Silentness

I know it will probably never happen, but I wish Flash switched to Starcraft 2 as Terran.

Even MC said Flash would be good at SC2 if he tried it. I can always dream though


----------



## treguo

On a different note, FxO wolf's casting skills has improved quite a bit.


----------



## Lazorbeam

I don't play zerg or terran, but I'll tell you this; protoss is definitely the harder to play. Terran and zerg get free & easy scouting while protoss must rely on pure intuition and genius in order to perform.

It requires more micro/macro and the skill cap is very high. I only manage to stay competitive because I'm a superior player on all levels. Protoss is only successful in high level play because we happen to have the best players. Some protoss builds seem overpowered, but that's only because zerg/terran have yet to adapt.

I'm an absolute hero and martyr for playing this race, and remind myself constantly of the manliness required to undertake such a burden.

This opinion is my own and of course, is 100% valid because I'm one of the world's top 5000 players. If only blizzard would wake up and fix this game.

Also, switch protoss with zerg/terran in the above message depending on whatever you play.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;14255795*
> I don't play zerg or terran, but I'll tell you this; protoss is definitely the harder to play. Terran and zerg get free & easy scouting while protoss must rely on pure intuition and genius in order to perform.
> 
> It requires more micro/macro and the skill cap is very high. I only manage to stay competitive because I'm a superior player on all levels. Protoss is only successful in high level play because we happen to have the best players. Some protoss builds seem overpowered, but that's only because zerg/terran have yet to adapt.
> 
> I'm an absolute hero and martyr for playing this race, and remind myself constantly of the manliness required to undertake such a burden.
> 
> This opinion is my own and of course, is 100% valid because I'm one of the world's top 5000 players. If only blizzard would wake up and fix this game.
> 
> Also, switch protoss with zerg/terran in the above message depending on whatever you play.


I play random and I endorse this message, no matter which race im playing the other 2 are overpowered









 FXO buying fOu


----------



## QuadDamage

Real men go random!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14252784*
> Yep I felt the same way. The reason I picked Terran in SCII instead of random ( like I was in BW ), was because I felt they were the most challenging + most rewarding.


Lies, you picked terran because it was op in the beta.








Also wouldn't random be more challenging than any single race?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14253628*
> There's a reason why zerg is still the race with lowest winrate, especially in kr.


Actually Protoss has the lowest win ratio, especially in Korea.


----------



## Mwarren

Blizzard's customer support is garbage. Just got an email saying that my account has been suspended for 24 hours for saying fing gm player"......WTH!?

EDIT: Funny thing is that they don't suspend your PTR account, if it wasn't for SC2 I would have nothing to do with Blizzard. This is around the 10th time that my account has been suspended over something absurd.


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;14255795*
> I don't play zerg or terran, but I'll tell you this; protoss is definitely the harder to play. Terran and zerg get free & easy scouting while protoss must rely on pure intuition and genius in order to perform.


What free easy scouting :S? Toss has Obs which are hard to even notice unless you're really eyeballing every part of your base. Terran has scans which cost them a mule. Zerg has O-lords. Unless you're letting units run into your base like speedlings or something I don't see what you consider easy and free.


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14258457*
> Blizzard's customer support is garbage. Just got an email saying that my account has been suspended for 24 hours for saying fing gm player"......WTH!?
> 
> EDIT: Funny thing is that they don't suspend your PTR account, if it wasn't for SC2 I would have nothing to do with Blizzard. This is around the 10th time that my account has been suspended over something absurd.


If your account has been suspended 10times....maybe, just maybe, you should rage less


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam;14255795*
> I don't play zerg or terran, but I'll tell you this; protoss is definitely the harder to play. Terran and zerg get free & easy scouting while protoss must rely on pure intuition and genius in order to perform.
> 
> It requires more micro/macro and the skill cap is very high. I only manage to stay competitive because I'm a superior player on all levels. Protoss is only successful in high level play because we happen to have the best players. Some protoss builds seem overpowered, but that's only because zerg/terran have yet to adapt.
> 
> I'm an absolute hero and martyr for playing this race, and remind myself constantly of the manliness required to undertake such a burden.
> 
> This opinion is my own and of course, is 100% valid because I'm one of the world's top 5000 players. If only blizzard would wake up and fix this game.
> 
> Also, switch protoss with zerg/terran in the above message depending on whatever you play.


Toss is the most unsuccessful in the highest level of play,(only mc is of top calibre) but has a lotta players in low-to mid gm cause it's easy to learn, but has low skill cap. The game is yet to be balanced.

and that graph isnt official... 1800games?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkMasterMX;14258744*
> What free easy scouting :S? Toss has Obs which are hard to even notice unless you're really eyeballing every part of your base. Terran has scans which cost them a mule. Zerg has O-lords. Unless you're letting units run into your base like speedlings or something I don't see what you consider easy and free.


Zerg needs to scout more than t and p, not to mention zvz which is a scouting fest. Also, in early game, zerg is easiest to get scouted due to no block.


----------



## Sangers_low

In BSG League, T>P>Z, PDM, P>T>Z, but not rly big, MGM, P>Z>T, GM +, T>Z>P


----------



## Mwarren

Yea cause cursing = rage


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


and that graph isnt official... 1800games?










It's KR only, based on TLPD, which covers most if not all pro events. Global stats (a bit older though):


----------



## rhed5

Broke my keyboard after something went wrong during cleaning. RIP my dt-35, served me well since 2003. Reduced to my laptop while I do some research and shop around. No sc2 in the near future.


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Yea cause cursing = rage


Yes, why yes it does. And if you were to say, "I'm going to f you up!" that is a threat, so I can see it.

Just leave more, and get suspended less.

Edited: to be more civil


----------



## Mwarren

Who said anything about threats? I'm not even going to bother talking to you because you just make stuff up on your own without actually comprehending whatever you're reading.

All that I said was fin Grand Master.....that could be interpreted multiple ways and even if it was interpreted as being bad how bad could it really be.....


----------



## BigFan

^^Guys relax!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14258457*
> Blizzard's customer support is garbage. Just got an email saying that my account has been suspended for 24 hours for saying fing gm player"......WTH!?
> 
> EDIT: Funny thing is that they don't suspend your PTR account, if it wasn't for SC2 I would have nothing to do with Blizzard. This is around the 10th time that my account has been suspended over something absurd.


hmm, they probably just considered the "fing" part thus the ban. That's still a swear even if it wasn't meant at your opponent








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14258241*
> Lies, you picked terran because it was op in the beta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also wouldn't random be more challenging than any single race?*
> 
> Actually Protoss has the lowest win ratio, especially in Korea.


Agree, random gets it all. It's more interesting than picking a specific race but there are a lot of MUs that you have to get used to playing and some can be downright annoying!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14260265*
> Broke my keyboard after something went wrong during cleaning. RIP my dt-35, served me well since 2003. Reduced to my laptop while I do some research and shop around. No sc2 in the near future.


hmm, you don't need any special keyboard to play SCII!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lies, you picked terran because it was op in the beta.










You must not remember when I started playing beta, back then Terran was considered the worst by far, and siege tanks were getting *buffs*.


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Who said anything about threats? I'm not even going to bother talking to you because you just make stuff up on your own without actually comprehending whatever you're reading.

All that I said was fin Grand Master.....that could be interpreted multiple ways and even if it was interpreted as being bad how bad could it really be.....


Lol no wonder why people report you, you are not very nice


----------



## ma70ent

Hey guys. Glad to see there is an SC2 thread on these forums. I like these forums so I'm interested to see what you guys are like. Pretty cool seeing a bunch of people with BEASTLY computers playing this game, haha.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


It's KR only, based on TLPD, which covers most if not all pro events. Global stats (a bit older though):










You know, my race has the lowest win %. Without a doubt.

Except on those graphs. Those graphs are absolutely flawed - even though the confidence interval over 1800 games is huge. Simply a statistical anomaly.

Similar graphs and statistics show that my race is indeed underpowered, THESE stats are without a doubt correct. There was this tournament last week, 85% of finalists were playing other races. Definitive proof that my race is the worst.

(replace "my race" with whatever you play)


----------



## ma70ent

Just read the last page and noticed theres a lot of talk about racial balance. I guess I'm just one of the few that thinks the races are all different, but balanced. People keep asking for races to become similar to each other and I think that would just make the game boring. I was a semi-pro (Amateur League only) in WC3, and while WC3 is not this game, it was a popular RTS where many whined about imbalances. When Blizzard stopped patching the game, the game balanced itself when people learned new tricks/strategies/improved their micro. I think people just need to discover new things, and well, minor changes should be done at most. I'm tired of people wanting huge drastic buffs/nerfs, its crazy and throws a lot of things out the window sometimes.


----------



## Lazorbeam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DarkMasterMX*


What free easy scouting :S? Toss has Obs which are hard to even notice unless you're really eyeballing every part of your base. Terran has scans which cost them a mule. Zerg has O-lords. Unless you're letting units run into your base like speedlings or something I don't see what you consider easy and free.


But protoss is forced into a specific tech path in order to obtain said tech. In turn, protoss gameplay is mostly predictable and redundant, every game. There is no single protoss build that counters every zerg/terran build... and we all know that every race should have an failproof safe build.

The fact that I need to sacrifice RESOURCES to scout is absurd. The investment required for scouting as protoss is ridiculous.

Switch protoss for whatever race you play.


----------



## poroboszcz

You're so biased.


----------



## WBaS

So me (gold 1v1) and another guy (silver 1v1) just played some 2v2 and placed as gold. But in the process we played some diamond and master league players. I couldn't believe the speed at which some of these players progressed. We got our faces kicked in by a protoss who decided to pylon in my base. Moral of the story... protoss are not underpowered so quit whining about scouting!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ma70ent*


Just read the last page and noticed theres a lot of talk about racial balance. I guess I'm just one of the few that thinks the races are all different, but balanced. People keep asking for races to become similar to each other and I think that would just make the game boring. I was a semi-pro (Amateur League only) in WC3, and while WC3 is not this game, it was a popular RTS where many whined about imbalances. When Blizzard stopped patching the game, the game balanced itself when people learned new tricks/strategies/improved their micro. I think people just need to discover new things, and well, minor changes should be done at most. I'm tired of people wanting huge drastic buffs/nerfs, its crazy and throws a lot of things out the window sometimes.


Agree









Quote:



Originally Posted by *WBaS*


So me (gold 1v1) and another guy (silver 1v1) just played some 2v2 and placed as gold. But in the process we played some diamond and master league players. I couldn't believe the speed at which some of these players progressed. We got our faces kicked in by a protoss who decided to pylon in my base. Moral of the story... protoss are not underpowered so* quit whining about scouting!*


I believe he was being sarcastic as indicated by his last statement


----------



## Multiverse

uhh nothing more boring than balance/OP/UP discussions. I play protoss and I see some of your guys points, but honestly, who friggin cares? I play toss because I find the most reward out of it for me.

I do feel protoss is somewhat predictable with the Collossus because it is so strong. I don't see how toss is the easiest to play though. If it was wouldn't more pros play as them? I mean come on, if you play this game for a living wouldn't you want to make it easier to earn said living? Also, the numbers show toss isn't exactly the easiest to play.

Also, I'm only silver league so tear me apart if ya wish


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Multiverse*


uhh nothing more boring than balance/OP/UP discussions. I play protoss and I see some of your guys points, but honestly, who friggin cares? I play toss because I find the most reward out of it for me.

I do feel protoss is somewhat predictable with the Collossus because it is so strong. I don't see how toss is the easiest to play though. If it was wouldn't more pros play as them? I mean come on, if you play this game for a living wouldn't you want to make it easier to earn said living? Also, the numbers show toss isn't exactly the easiest to play.

Also, I'm only silver league so tear me apart if ya wish



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


In BSG League, T>P>Z, PDM, P>T>Z, but not rly big, MGM, P>Z>T, GM +, T>Z>P


btw these days, zealot archon is popular


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazorbeam*


But protoss is forced into a specific tech path in order to obtain said tech. In turn, protoss gameplay is mostly predictable and redundant, every game. There is no single protoss build that counters every zerg/terran build... and we all know that every race should have an failproof safe build.

The fact that I need to sacrifice RESOURCES to scout is absurd. The investment required for scouting as protoss is ridiculous.

Switch protoss for whatever race you play.


stop trolling


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WBaS*


So me (gold 1v1) and another guy (silver 1v1) just played some 2v2 and placed as gold. But in the process we played some diamond and master league players. I couldn't believe the speed at which some of these players progressed. We got our faces kicked in by a protoss who decided to pylon in my base. Moral of the story... protoss are not underpowered so quit whining about scouting!


toss is underpowered at the highest level. Think top 10 sc2 players, and think of toss other than mc who clearly belongs there.

Alicia, puzzle and inca shows potential, but still not "top."


----------



## Multiverse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


btw these days, zealot archon is popular


I rarely go archon actually. Even when I do go templar tech. So i'll have to explore that more.

Side note - whats good for PvP? Although 4WG micro battles are fun i'd love a lean build that either puts me at a econ or tech advantage without going 4 gate


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Multiverse;14263232*
> I rarely go archon actually. Even when I do go templar tech. So i'll have to explore that more.
> 
> Side note - whats good for PvP? Although 4WG micro battles are fun i'd love a lean build that either puts me at a econ or tech advantage without going 4 gate


There are some builds, but on most maps, sentries can hold until immortal easy, so 4g isnt hard to defend.

TDA on the otherhand... u need to 4g on that map


----------



## rhed5

Ordered the filco majestouch tenkeyless with cherry browns. my first mechanical keyboard. Excited about my first mech keyboard!


----------



## DoomDash

Mech is awesome







. Love my blues though







.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14263714*
> Mech is awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Love my blues though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


i use das


----------



## Multiverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14263661*
> Ordered the filco majestouch tenkeyless with cherry browns. my first mechanical keyboard. Excited about my first mech keyboard!


Nice! I would really like one with browns, but everytime i have the money to buy one I end up talking myself out of it. I'm looking to buy a new amp and some pedals before i buy a new kb


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14263661*
> Ordered the filco majestouch tenkeyless with cherry browns. my first mechanical keyboard. Excited about my *first mech keyboard*!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14263714*
> *Mech is awesome*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Love my blues though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I call OP and hax!!!!!









@Multiverse Lazorbeam is trolling


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14263661*
> Ordered the filco majestouch tenkeyless with cherry browns. my first mechanical keyboard. Excited about my first mech keyboard!


I'm telling you now dude, you'll love it. I enjoy playing Starcraft so much more since I got my Filco with Browns.

I posted this in the mechanical keyboard club, but for those of you who aren't a member or don't check there, here's my Filco:









I play Zerg


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14263661*
> Ordered the filco majestouch tenkeyless with cherry browns. my first mechanical keyboard. Excited about my first mech keyboard!


WHERES MINE. i'll take full size with browns, ninjas or regular. does not matter.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14263941*
> @Multiverse Lazorbeam is trolling


He's not trolling cause everybody always thinks their race is **** and always complaining about their own race when it's stupid.

Unless you're a person like me who looks @ statistics only. Because whatever I say will be based on numbers and percentages.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14264190*
> He's not trolling cause everybody always thinks their race is **** and always complaining about their own race when it's stupid.
> 
> Unless you're a person like me who looks @ statistics only. Because whatever I say will be based on numbers and percentages.


Hybrid race OPOP!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14264190*
> He's not trolling cause everybody always thinks their race is **** and always complaining about their own race when it's stupid.
> 
> Unless you're a person like me who looks @ statistics only. Because whatever I say will be based on numbers and percentages.


Yes, I know that, but, some other members thought he was being serious. Just pointing it out


----------



## DoomDash

I wouldn't change my Razer Blackwidow for anything at this point.


----------



## treguo

Well, it's more about habit. As soon as you use better switches for key control I'm sure you'll like those better instead. Jwin will be happy with browns for sure.


----------



## WBaS

I have a horrible time picking out sarcasm on forums. Different people could read the same sentence and get different "tones" out of it. Maybe I just have bad judgment or take things too seriously...


----------



## treguo

Professor T just showing off his PHD in owning nerds. 25 to 2 drones LoL.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Multiverse;14263232*
> I rarely go archon actually. Even when I do go templar tech. So i'll have to explore that more.
> 
> Side note - whats good for PvP? Although 4WG micro battles are fun i'd love a lean build that either puts me at a econ or tech advantage without going 4 gate


Tyler's/Day 9's 10 gate 2 gate robo is pretty good on maps with small ramps.

Anyone here ever tried Topre switches?


----------



## treguo

What I'm using atm. I have hhkp2 and using a se05c0 realforce atm. Variable just don't feel well for SC2. If you use F1 and then F2-5 keys for screen pans, HHKp2 don't work.

SOMEBODY just lost a best of 5 pvp.

I'm not going to say who.

But SOMEBODY........


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treguo;14267413*
> What I'm using atm. I have hhkp2 and using a se05c0 realforce atm. Variable just don't feel well for SC2. If you use F1 and then F2-5 keys for screen pans, HHKp2 don't work.
> 
> SOMEBODY just lost a best of 5 pvp.
> 
> I'm not going to say who.
> 
> But SOMEBODY........


Hongun 3 : MC 1


----------



## yks

you should use spoiler tags.


----------



## treguo

Lies, all lies\

Lies and statistics.

No way mc loose in pvp.


----------



## DoomDash

Played some pretty bad ass fun casuals with Fishbulb on PTR today, I love map 4 look at this sexy map split ( PS building armor and range ).


----------



## falco216

This was my favorite part of our games, that neural was so cute. :3

Also, explosions everywhere!


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

When does season 3 start?


----------



## Starman27

July 26th

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2826193523


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


July 26th

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2826193523


Thank ya kindly. I was looking for that hahaha


----------



## Starman27

Just won my first game, last game of my placement matches. I of course admit that I am horrible and a noob, having no rts experience, but I have been reading and watching a lot of SC2 and was hoping for a little feedback on my match, because I know I have a lot to learn. Thanks a lot.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8THH2EQL

PS Not sure if that's how I should be posting replays, let me know if there is another way, thanks!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


Just won my first game, last game of my placement matches. I of course admit that I am horrible and a noob, having no rts experience, but I have been reading and watching a lot of SC2 and was hoping for a little feedback on my match, because I know I have a lot to learn. Thanks a lot.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8THH2EQL

PS Not sure if that's how I should be posting replays, let me know if there is another way, thanks!


Congrats xD

http://replayfu.com <--- future replays here, and i'll take a look at urs now









EDIT: wait who're u? lol


----------



## Starman27

Haha, well I told you I won, but I'm veiledaiel, sorry. And thanks for the replay link, sorry about that.


----------



## DoomDash

Hah my next 9 Geforce opponents are Diamond at best.


----------



## Starman27

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hah my next 9 Geforce opponents are Diamond at best.


Those poor saps don't know what they're in for


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


Haha, well I told you I won, but I'm veiledaiel, sorry. And thanks for the replay link, sorry about that.


i cant tell much because of the game length, but u seem fine








one thing, group all ur rax on one group, not separate k?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hah my next 9 Geforce opponents are Diamond at best.










it's such a weird tournament...


----------



## Sangers_low

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/...0#current-rank

just throwing it out there


----------



## treguo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hah my next 9 Geforce opponents are Diamond at best.


Diamond can still beat you with blind counters.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *treguo*


Diamond can still beat you with blind counters.


mechanics


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14275936*
> mechanics


Micro


----------



## treguo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elmateo487;14276168*
> Micro


Your Macro


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treguo;14275583*
> Diamond can still beat you with blind counters.


Yeah but unlikely if I play safe.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14276479*
> Yeah but unlikely if I play safe.


tvp: 7 rax + 20 scv
tvz: 12 3rax + scv all in at 4:30
tvt : 1 rax inbase + 3 proxy rax or tvz strat

ez grandmaster.


----------



## rhed5

loving my filco's. kinda regretting getting the tenkeyless as I can't use items fast enough when playing SOTIS.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14276523*
> tvp: 7 rax + 20 scv
> tvz: 12 3rax + scv all in at 4:30
> tvt : 1 rax inbase + 3 proxy rax or tvz strat
> 
> ez grandmaster.


No thanks, not reliable







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14276550*
> loving my filco's. kinda regretting getting the tenkeyless as I can't use items fast enough when playing SOTIS.


tenkeyless ftl.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14276586*
> No thanks, not reliable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> tenkeyless ftl.


i cant remember the details, but i vaguely remember someone in tl who got upto top 50 with just 7 rax


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14276613*
> i cant remember the details, but i vaguely remember someone in tl who got upto top 50 with just 7 rax


Yeah but then everyone else and their mom tried it and got no where near the same results when they realized his building placement was a dead give away. It's just one of those builds people abused until people were used to it, and I'm sure that guy had pretty solid mechanics to get up that high anyway. Look at CombatEX, that guy cheeses 90% of his games and he is constantly top grand master.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14276707*
> Yeah but then everyone else and their mom tried it and got no where near the same results when they realized his building placement was a dead give away. It's just one of those builds people abused until people were used to it, and I'm sure that guy had pretty solid mechanics to get up that high anyway. Look at CombatEX, that guy cheeses 90% of his games and he is constantly top grand master.


also he's a dick. So bloody bm


----------



## treguo

Kind of like when early in the days, every P just 4 gated for every match up until it was an easy loss vs T and Z.

If you go tkl, you wil not want to go back to full 103/04. The distance between your mouse and your left hand is so much more comportable than having a full size; This is especially true for you and your BW's macro keys.

With that said, I'm still waiting on a full size mechanical like the trigger and g unit with mx blacks and macro buttons.

Hey jedwin, time to sell that filco brown and go topre.

I've DL'd GSL team league NS HoSeo vs FoU games. I love how sage plays. I also love the guitar intro music to each game!


----------



## DoomDash

I finally hit 1600+, took long enough







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Starman27;14275111*
> Just won my first game, last game of my placement matches. I of course admit that I am horrible and a noob, having no rts experience, but I have been reading and watching a lot of SC2 and was hoping for a little feedback on my match, because I know I have a lot to learn. Thanks a lot.
> 
> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8THH2EQL
> 
> PS Not sure if that's how I should be posting replays, let me know if there is another way, thanks!


GJ, keep at it! Practice makes perfect








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14275166*
> Congrats xD
> 
> http://replayfu.com <--- future replays here, and i'll take a look at urs now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: wait who're u? lol


hmm, I like gamereplays.org and sc2replayed.com(parser broken atm :/). Check #1 and #2 in my sig for the links(incase I mistyped them







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14275403*
> Hah my next 9 Geforce opponents are Diamond at best.


Gotta be modest, they could still be challenging








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhed5;14276550*
> loving my filco's. kinda regretting getting the tenkeyless as I can't use items fast enough when playing SOTIS.


haha, no more 1vs1ing huh?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14276523*
> tvp: 7 rax + 20 scv
> tvz: 12 3rax + scv all in at 4:30
> tvt : 1 rax inbase + 3 proxy rax or tvz strat
> 
> ez grandmaster.


hmm, interesting strats indeed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277094*
> I finally hit 1600+, took long enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Up for a game doom on those new maps?


----------



## DoomDash

Sure BigFan.

And no I don't have to be modest







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277247*
> Sure BigFan.
> 
> And no I don't have to be modest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


hehe, kk, all I'm saying is don't underestimate any of these guys. Last time I underestimated some bronze players on XC, I got whipped by his 200/200 army


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah but I never lose to Diamonds playing normal, at least I haven't yet.

I'm on PTR.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277283*
> Yeah but I never lose to Diamonds playing normal, at least I haven't yet.
> 
> I'm on PTR.


kk, logging on atm


----------



## treguo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277283*
> Yeah but I never lose to Diamonds playing normal, at least I haven't yet.
> 
> I'm on PTR.


har har


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treguo;14277776*
> har har


Why do you have a new SN? Practice doesn't count, I always fool around unless its vs jediwin.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277809*
> Why do you have a new SN? Practice doesn't count, I always fool around unless its vs jediwin.


Not interested in anymore games?









Gotta say though, BLs would've been a much better choice last game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14277827*
> Not interested in anymore games?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta say though, BLs would've been a much better choice last game


But I wanted to go ultra







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277835*
> But I wanted to go ultra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


rofl, let's explain this








Colossi+immortals+zealots >>>> ultras








hehe, of course, that takes into account armor(ultras do 40ish to armor, otherwise 20ish to normal) and of course, you need the backup for the colossi but that tech switch at the end was just blah. If I had more gas I would've went mass blink stalkers against those mutas but u took out my 3rd and I couldn't get it back up in time :/

Edit: I guess I should say that my mass dts caught you offguard as well. Should've went for them much earlier and took out your 3rd then went for a surround with the rest of my army


----------



## DoomDash

Well if I was playing it to not give you a chance I wouldn't have attacked into your nat ever, and just killed any attacking force you sent out or denyed expos. No way you can attack into a defended position like that over and over with expensive units, but I had so many bases it didn't matter obviously heh. At least at first you didn't have any immortal, vs ultra thats a mistake because ultra rip through almost everything on the ground from toss besides Immortal.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277866*
> Well if I was playing it to not give you a chance I wouldn't have attacked into your nat ever, and just killed any attacking force you sent out or denyed expos. No way you can attack into a defended position like that over and over with expensive units, but I had so many bases it didn't matter obviously heh. At least at first you didn't have any immortal, vs ultra thats a mistake because ultra rip through almost everything on the ground from toss besides Immortal.


hehe, of course, you had 5 including your main, guessing you had a couple more but once my 3rd was out, it was pretty hard to get back on track :/

hmm, yes they might but zealots with immortal support aren't too bad. Gotta remember their size though, choke anyone?







That and I was going to mass cannons between my 2nd and 3rd but I got lazy XD Are you planning to log back in or calling it a night?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277809*
> Why do you have a new SN? Practice doesn't count, I always fool around unless its vs jediwin.


The irony in that statement is that it's not practice if you are fooling around.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14277897*
> The irony in that statement is that it's not practice if you are fooling around.


I practice tasks or new builds, or do some old build I don't think is good anymore, unless I know its someone I need to play 100% to even have a chance at beating like jediwin.

Practice does not always mean playing to win.

I would play 100% vs Cory and Atheism too.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14277897*
> The irony in that statement is that it's not practice if you are fooling around.


hehe, got you there









BTW, what's with the mass spines? It's really annoying to deal with


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14277915*
> hehe, got you there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what's with the mass spines? It's really annoying to deal with


No, if he got me there he would have said "That's not very good practice", and that I cannot argue hah.

Mass spines is the future!!! Jediwin does it vs my mech to hold on till BL's.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277928*
> No, if he got me there he would have said "That's not very good practice", and that I cannot argue hah.
> 
> Mass spines is the future!!! Jediwin does it vs my mech to hold on till BL's.


hmm, tell that to MC who roflstomped EG.Machine in the NASL way back. He went immortals+zealots+stalkers and just like that those spines were no more


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Immortals shred armored.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14277953*
> Yeah Immortals shred armored.


true true.

Looking over that game, denying you exp was my biggest mistake! That and not taking a third right after mine was destroyed!


----------



## DoomDash

SC / WC theme land in China ( well rip offs , surprise! )

http://shanghaiist.com/2011/07/15/joyland_the_blizzard_bits.php?gallery0Pic=33#gallery


----------



## Sangers_low

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222975

kinda surprised deasung was a hacker , cause i used to play teams with her


----------



## BigFan

For you guys who didn't get to see our PvsZ game, it was pretty awesome. Since you need the PTR for the replay, I decided to put in some pics with explanations about what happened, etc... Enjoy!

DEATH OF A HERO

Our game starts off as usual with the exchange of pleasantries. Both our players are interested in a fun and productive game:









The Protoss player decides to forge FE in response to the Zerg's exp. The idea was to keep up in bases as much as possible:









As both of our players continue to work on their macro, a lone brave stalker has decided to go out and start scouting the Zerg player. He was pretty suspicious of the lack of harass and his suspicions were confirmed true. Our Zerg player has indeed taken his 3rd and has already started to saturate it:









Not to be outdone and to prevent the stalker's sacrifice from being in vain, our Protoss player decides to take his third as well to keep up with the bases. As is observed, this happens just as the Zerg player has decided to double exp and takes his 4th and a 5th unbeknown to our Protoss player:









Having a clear plan in mind with ZSSC(zealots+sentry+stalker+colossi), unit production has started after some saturation of the main and exps:









Alas, all was not well though. Upon clearing the towers using 2 zealots, our Protoss player discovers something very intriguing and his fears are confirmed. Why else would our Zerg player go for hive tech aside from getting 3/3 upgrades and where were all his units at the time the observer scouted his base? Mass ultras were the answer. Everything started to make sense now!









Not to be outdone, our Protoss player had his own trump card hidden in his exp. A large batch of colossi waiting to dispatch his enemies' units as fast as possible!









Finally, the time has come for the first engagement. Upon taking out the Protoss' 3rd base, a battle ensues. Can anything stand up against the might of 19 ultras?????









Having all his meat shields destroyed and his army size further reduced, our Protoss player is forced to retreat to his exp with his remaining colossi and create a choke to counter the large ultra force:









Our Protoss player comes out on top but more surprises are in store for him as the Zerg player makes another 10+ ultras and is attacking his exp relentlessly. Not to be outdone, our Protoss player has his own surprise. Several immortals with zealot support join the fight against the ultra army and again he comes out on top.









But this is no time for celebration as a third wave of ultras hits!!!!! A third surprise is revealed by our Protoss player, dark templars galore! Using them, he was able to repel yet another wave of 17 ultras using the map and lack of detection to his advantage:









Feeling like this is the opportunity he has been waiting for, he decides to attack the Zerg's original 4th base taking it out but the Zerg's first surprise hits home hard!









Even though the Protoss player has been able to repel the Zerg's army several times, his once powerful and feared army has now been reduced to a mere 6 dts with an observer:









Looking at his situation as being hopeless, he decides to do some more harass before more spores go up while macoring whatever he can at home. As he takes down the Zerg's gold, another rather nasty tech switch has taken place. Upon this realization, the Protoss player confronts the Zerg player:









The Protoss' fears are confirmed as a band of mutas bears down on his base annihilating everything in their path:









Lacking resources and manpower, our Protoss player makes a final stand at his newest base.









With not enough units to survive the onslaught of the mutalisks, our Protoss hero has lost, his units slain but not before "For Aiur" can be heard from the base.


----------



## yks

I didn't say anything about winning.

You know what. Nevermind.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL 4 min!


----------



## treguo

Too bad you didn't have storm

two storm those mutas die.

Edit:

LOL.. tastosis casts are so funny. Another epic moment during bomber vs byun match.

ZenexB was like










After the first few games.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## hirolla888

You guys might be interested in this:
http://www.itspot.com.au/act-starcra...Add+On+109101+

Bargain for only $1200!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *treguo*


Too bad you didn't have storm

two storm those mutas die.


Yes, but, I wasn't prepared for such a switch which is why I called it nasty







I mean my army was mostly ground as you can see in the screenshots and the lack of resources meant that I couldn't get a quick stalker army up(could've gotten 8 then cb's another 8 and possible maybe even 8 more after that to repel it). I also had blink so I would've had fun trying to reduce my casualties









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












haha, he makes a good point XD Unit too strong? NP it. Too many units(marines) or wanna take out a lot of workers at once? FG them. Feeling like causing some mayhem? sneak into someone's base and use ITs near their CC/nexus/hatchery


----------



## DoomDash

FG, also the counter for micro.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


haha, he makes a good point XD Unit too strong? NP it.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*












Steven is on of my favorite players just cuz he talks so much ****s and trolls really hard and you can tell he is nice dude. I love his stream I can't play like him, he has crazy mirco with his 4 brofestor hit squad!


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*   Steven is on of my favorite players just cuz he talks so much ****s and trolls really hard and you can tell he is nice dude. I love his stream I can't play like him, he has crazy mirco with his 4 brofestor hit squad!  
Same here man. He's a pleasure to watch. Especially because of those little stories he makes up while playing. You can tell he genuinely enjoys this game and has tons of fun playing it.
  
 You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


FG, also the counter for micro.


hehe, never disagreed. It's my main quarrel with FG, that and its area of affect seems a bit on the large side considering unit grouping in SCII. If this was BW, then the size is fine. I would've preferred if they made it a bit smaller without the ability to prevent unit movement, so, that you can still cast it and get those marines down to yellow or even kill them with 2 FGs but at least your opponent can micro his units. This in turn rewards spreading, micro and makes infestors more APM intensive(similar to BW with storms and such) which makes infestor play more awesome. Right now, seems all a Z has to do is mass infestors









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*




















I made an assumption that doom was going to mass roaches or something but realized that he had hive and no units when scouting. Only guess was that he was going to mass some tier 3 unit. Turns out it was the ultras. Colossi are good but they fall easily to ultras!!!!! I would've been dead long ago that game had I not added immortals and then dts into the mix to increase my dps


----------



## Xyxyll

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Same here man. He's a pleasure to watch. Especially because of those little stories he makes up while playing. You can tell he genuinely enjoys this game and has tons of fun playing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEN9ZfhiGg


Watching that live was hilarious.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hehe, never disagreed. It's my main quarrel with FG, that and its area of affect seems a bit on the large side considering unit grouping in SCII. If this was BW, then the size is fine. I would've preferred if they made it a bit smaller without the ability to prevent unit movement, so, that you can still cast it and get those marines down to yellow or even kill them with 2 FGs but at least your opponent can micro his units. This in turn rewards spreading, micro and makes infestors more APM intensive(similar to BW with storms and such) which makes infestor play more awesome. Right now, seems all a Z has to do is mass infestors










I don't know, it seems fine to me. When I mass Infestors I still have a lot of problems in both matchups.

In ZvT sure you can get tons of marines with a nice fungal, but if the Terran player pushes nice and slow with siege tanks and control the marines well (not letting them get too far ahead of the tanks) it's a really hard to get that nice fungal off without losing every one of your Infestors.

and with Protoss I've had some crazy games where I go Roach Infestor, and the Protoss player goes Stalker Templar. I fungal his Stalkers, he storms my Roaches and the whole battle is basically an even trade.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xyxyll*


Watching that live was hilarious.


Indeed it was.
http://captain16.ytmnd.com/


----------



## Ruckol1

That was so funny


----------



## Xyxyll

My graphics card works harder in the menu than in the game. Anyone else's the same?

Note: VSync is turned on in SC2 and fraps shows 30-45fps in the menus.


----------



## Sangers_low

ROFL NOT THE INFESTOR NERF QQ AGAIN









srsly, ling infestor is not hard composition ...idk, maybe NA terrans are slow to adapt?







NP range is only 9, not hard to kill those if u pay a bit of attention lol

btw, i dun like destiny... overall bad and uninspiring player who earn a lot because he trash talks well ?


----------



## treguo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyxyll;14286131*
> My graphics card works harder in the menu than in the game. Anyone else's the same?
> 
> Note: VSync is turned on in SC2 and fraps shows 30-45fps in the menus.


Turn down the graphics settings and it will go down. Specifically it's the post proce


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14286372*
> ROFL NOT THE INFESTOR NERF QQ AGAIN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> srsly, ling infestor is not hard composition ...idk, maybe NA terrans are slow to adapt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NP range is only 9, not hard to kill those if u pay a bit of attention lol
> 
> btw, i dun like destiny... overall bad and uninspiring player who earn a lot because he trash talks well ?


Destiny is entertaining to watch, hes the pop music star of SC2 lol


----------



## DoomDash

I set my max fps at the menus at 30 FPS so it doesn't over work itself.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/375107634

Infestors are only slightly bogus, they just too well rounded for the cost, not a huge problem other than that. I don't really care about infestors much, or have problems with TvZ... nothing a little more experimenting can't probably solve.

TvP is much harder for me atm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyxyll;14286131*
> My graphics card works harder in the menu than in the game. Anyone else's the same?
> 
> Note: VSync is turned on in SC2 and fraps shows 30-45fps in the menus.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288020*
> I set my max fps at the menus at 30 FPS so it doesn't over work itself.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/375107634


Do this. I have mine set to max 30 in the menu and 60 in the game, no issues








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14286372*
> ROFL NOT THE INFESTOR NERF QQ AGAIN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> srsly, ling infestor is not hard composition ...idk, maybe NA terrans are slow to adapt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NP range is only 9, not hard to kill those if u pay a bit of attention lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14284378*
> I don't know, it seems fine to me. When I mass Infestors I still have a lot of problems in both matchups.
> 
> In ZvT sure you can get tons of marines with a nice fungal, but if the Terran player pushes nice and slow with siege tanks and control the marines well (not letting them get too far ahead of the tanks) it's a really hard to get that nice fungal off without losing every one of your Infestors.
> 
> and with Protoss I've had some crazy games where I go Roach Infestor, and the Protoss player goes Stalker Templar. I fungal his Stalkers, he storms my Roaches and the whole battle is basically an even trade.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288020*
> Infestors are only slightly bogus, they just too well rounded for the cost, not a huge problem other than that. I don't really care about infestors much, or have problems with TvZ... nothing a little more experimenting can't probably solve.
> 
> TvP is much harder for me atm.


Not QQing, just mentioning specifically what doom mentioned, that they seem really good for the cost. I think just making your opponent able to micro back his wounded units similar to plague in BW is good enough IMO but I haven't played enough against them to say otherwise


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288020*
> I set my max fps at the menus at 30 FPS so it doesn't over work itself.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/375107634
> 
> Infestors are only slightly bogus, they just too well rounded for the cost, not a huge problem other than that. I don't really care about infestors much, or have problems with TvZ... nothing a little more experimenting can't probably solve.
> 
> TvP is much harder for me atm.


hmm, would u say ur ghost micro/precision is good? It could solve tvp and infestor+broodlords.

I saw a game yesterday on iccup, where zenexbyun massacres a ultra/inf/bl army with 10 ghosts without losing any units :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14288585*
> hmm, would u say ur ghost micro/precision is good? It could solve tvp and infestor+broodlords.
> 
> I saw a game yesterday on iccup, where zenexbyun massacres a ultra/inf/bl army with 10 ghosts without losing any units :/


hmm, well, at least ghosts are more resistant to FG(more than 2 to kill them







). Having said that, did the Z actually get some FG's off or did he get emp'd, etc...? Basically, what happened?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14288684*
> hmm, well, at least ghosts are more resistant to FG(more than 2 to kill them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Having said that, did the Z actually get some FG's off or did he get emp'd, etc...? Basically, what happened?


like most engagements, bl comes first with ultras and infs behind them. Ghosts moves a bit forward, sniping bls. Bls hit ghosts but the broodlings die quickly to rines behind. As infestor moves forward, emp falls and all bl dies to snipe. Frustrated zerg moves ultras which are sniped and kited and die before even reaching rine/rauder line. Zerg ggs.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14288731*
> like most engagements, bl comes first with ultras and infs behind them. Ghosts moves a bit forward, sniping bls. Bls hit ghosts but the broodlings die quickly to rines behind. As infestor moves forward, emp falls and all bl dies to snipe. Frustrated zerg moves ultras which are sniped and kited and die before even reaching rine/rauder line. Zerg ggs.


It's more like this : Ghost moves a bit forward and starts sniping BL's, BL's then shoot the ghost killing them some what quickly, not only with their huge damage but the fact that any sieged tanks will kill your own ghosts in the process. Stay unsieged than you say? Oh, no problem, you get 1Aed by the lings and banes while the infestors FG everything ( not enough EMP's for all of them ) and you literally cannot micro, or siege because FG prevents both, and if you aren't sieged 1A ling/bane will kill all.

It's really bogus in Z's favor in most circumstances ( which is why its being talked about being nerfed , you don't hear it the other way around do you? ), however I think that defensive upgraded PF's MAY be the answer and may be the only way to prevent your tanks from killing your ghosts, and still being safe sieged. But an almost any situation where you don't have a defensive PF the advantage is zergs.

As much as you would love to argue it Blizzards balance team as well as people like morrow disagree with you and think its a little too good atm.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288829*
> It's more like this : Ghost moves a bit forward and starts sniping BL's, BL's then shoot the ghost killing them some what quickly, not only with their huge damage but the fact that any sieged tanks will kill your own ghosts in the process. Stay unsieged than you say? Oh, no problem, you get 1Aed by the lings and banes while the infestors FG everything ( not enough EMP's for all of them ) and you literally cannot micro, or siege because FG prevents both, and if you aren't sieged 1A ling/bane will kill all.
> 
> It's really bogus in Z's favor in most circumstances ( which is why its being talked about being nerfed , you don't hear it the other way around do you? ), however I think that defensive upgraded PF's MAY be the answer and may be the only way to prevent your tanks from killing your ghosts, and still being safe sieged. But an almost any situation where you don't have a defensive PF the advantage is zergs.
> 
> As much as you would love to argue it Blizzards balance team as well as people like morrow disagree with you and think its a little too good atm.


I wonder why Kr Terrans dont struggle so much.... Oh yeah MICRO


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14288891*
> I wonder why Kr Terrans dont struggle so much.... Oh yeah MICRO


Korean Terran's don't let them get to BL's







, avoiding the brokeness.









Also Korean Z's don't really do infestor heavy play yet, which is why Destiny was slaughtering Koreans.....


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288923*
> Korean Terran's don't let them get to BL's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , avoiding the brokeness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also Korean Z's don't really do infestor heavy play yet, which is why Destiny was slaughtering Koreans.....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14259247*
> In BSG League, T>P>Z, PDM, P>T>Z, but not rly big, MGM, P>Z>T, GM +, T>Z>P


No?


----------



## DoomDash

No what?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14289003*
> No what?


U agree? lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14289031*
> U agree? lol


No, that's completely bogus. Even when T was actually imba vs Z, Z had a 51% win rate vs Terran in masters accounting for skill ( with crap maps I might add ).

More like : BSG > T = P > Z , PDM P > Z > T, MGM P > T = Z, Pro level T > P = Z.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14289064*
> No, that's completely bogus. Even when T was actually imba vs Z, Z had a 51% win rate vs Terran in masters accounting for skill ( with crap maps I might add ).
> 
> More like : BSG > T = P > Z , PDM P > Z > T, MGM P > T = Z, Pro level T > P = Z.


PDM(low m) zerg's mechanics and decision making are pretty bad... and gm+ includes high gm... so i think we're on a similar page...

And bsg is definitely favoured for t. I observe a lot of those tourneys in sea

and toss hardly has good pros...


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah that's true but Terran's also can't split or multitask, don't get in good positions preemptively, have any idea of timings, and any 1A Zerg who doesn't lose to a build order loss will probably crush them. This is why there are so few Diamond / Master Terrans.


----------



## Sangers_low

Idra's apm is very slow lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14288731*
> like most engagements, bl comes first with ultras and infs behind them. Ghosts moves a bit forward, sniping bls. Bls hit ghosts but the broodlings die quickly to rines behind. As infestor moves forward, emp falls and all bl dies to snipe. Frustrated zerg moves ultras which are sniped and kited and die before even reaching rine/rauder line. Zerg ggs.


yes, but, you forget that those broodlings do 25 damage and the seige tank's splash damage has a good chance of killing the ghosts. I wonder if they brought over the 95% splash reduction for friendly targets from SP over to MP for like 200/200. It'll make units more resilient while not nerfing BL+infestor usage


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288923*
> Also Korean Z's don't really do infestor heavy play yet, which is why Destiny was slaughtering Koreans.....


Yep!

















http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/iqqps/koreas_reaction_to_destinys_playstyle/


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


yes, but, you forget that those broodlings do 25 damage and the seige tank's splash damage has a good chance of killing the ghosts. I wonder if they brought over the 95% splash reduction for friendly targets from SP over to MP for like 200/200. It'll make units more resilient while not nerfing BL+infestor usage










I'm not forgetting anything. U asked for what happened in the iccup match.

And terrans should use helions more against lings.


----------



## DoomDash

Splash reduction would actually be a great late game upgrade for Terran. They should make it like Fusion Core tech, and all of a sudden tanks aren't useless vs Protoss late game, and don't kill their own units so easy vs BL. 95% splash reduction too much though.

Added a thread about the idea, let me know what you think.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2878488201#1 ( please thumbs up it on bnet if you do like the idea ).


----------



## Sangers_low

i want baneling tunneling claws upgrade







oooh and stim/combat bones(?) for hydras


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14290185*
> i want baneling tunneling claws upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oooh and stim/combat bones(?) for hydras


How about you get an upgrade to make the baneling splash to no friendly fire damage, or better yet FG no friendly damage upgrade. Oh wait...


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How about you get an upgrade to make the baneling splash to no friendly fire damage, or better yet FG no friendly damage upgrade. Oh wait...










hahaha, how about blink muta, charge ultra, and cloak zerglings?


----------



## DoomDash

Muta's already move at blink speed, charge ultra is an ultra on creep, and cloak zerglings is burrow.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Muta's already move at blink speed, charge ultra is an ultra on creep, and cloak zerglings is burrow.


so u have no problem with those upgrades?









btw http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=244098


----------



## DoomDash

Of course I do, they are ******ed lol.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14290276*
> Of course I do, they are ******ed lol.


I'm hurt







why such an old meanie









btw i'm betting on counter sweep by fxOtGun in im vs fxo


----------



## DoomDash

You not being serious







.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14290312*
> You not being serious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Why so much hate on tgun?


----------



## Starman27

I keep getting my ass kicked







I know I'm new and suck, but I keep getting matched against people with over 200 wins, that doesn't seem very fair when I've played like 10 games. I seem to do fine until it starts to get to the mid-late game, then I start to fail at macro because there is so much to keep up with. I keep trying to win earlier and it isn't working, so I keep getting put in the same spots, and I refuse to cheese, I want to develop solid mechanics and play games that will improve me as a player, not just chalk up a win. Any tips for improving my macro towards the late game when I have 3-4 bases going? I try to keep my money low, but if I ever try to attack or anything my money shoots up to the thousands before I know it. I am good about always building workers, and rarely get supply blocked, although I could definitely be better about both, but they aren't my main concern right now. It's just really discouraging, I thought I would be playing new people, so it wasn't such a steep difference between me and my opponent. I'm determined to get good at this game, but just would really like to stop being the worst, and only be normal bad lol, as quickly as possible.

Tl;dr Any macro tips?


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


I keep getting my ass kicked







I know I'm new and suck, but I keep getting matched against people with over 200 wins, that doesn't seem very fair when I've played like 10 games. I seem to do fine until it starts to get to the mid-late game, then I start to fail at macro because there is so much to keep up with. I keep trying to win earlier and it isn't working, so I keep getting put in the same spots, and I refuse to cheese, I want to develop solid mechanics and play games that will improve me as a player, not just chalk up a win. Any tips for improving my macro towards the late game when I have 3-4 bases going? I try to keep my money low, but if I ever try to attack or anything my money shoots up to the thousands before I know it. I am good about always building workers, and rarely get supply blocked, although I could definitely be better about both, but they aren't my main concern right now. It's just really discouraging, I thought I would be playing new people, so it wasn't such a steep difference between me and my opponent. I'm determined to get good at this game, but just would really like to stop being the worst, and only be normal bad lol, as quickly as possible.

Tl;dr Any macro tips?


Not sure what race you are but you can support roughly 4 unit producing structures per base. Also scout as consistently as possible and try to know the general unit composition your opponent is going for and produce units accordingly.


----------



## Starman27

I play Terran, and I will definitely continue to work on those things, but I'm really looking for help with macroing mechanics, not strategy as much.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


I play Terran, and I will definitely continue to work on those things, but I'm really looking for help with macroing mechanics, not strategy as much.


You can't do much other than play games to get your macro mechanics up. You can try customs but chances are you'll meet some diamond/master player who doesn't want to mess their record so they custom. It's rather a fun place to try different strat since it doesn't affect your rank


----------



## Starman27

This week isn't recorded anyways, so I don't mind getting owned in the ladder, just was wondering if there were any tips for macroing, but I guess I need to just practice practice practice. I need to get into Buddhism or something because it's so frustrating to lose, lol. Thanks again everyone, I really do appreciate the help, and hope to be playing you guys one day


----------



## yks

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=245970

wowowowoww

straight jacking ni99as


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


This week isn't recorded anyways, so I don't mind getting owned in the ladder, just was wondering if there were any tips for macroing, but I guess I need to just practice practice practice. I need to get into Buddhism or something because it's so frustrating to lose, lol. Thanks again everyone, I really do appreciate the help, and hope to be playing you guys one day










hehe, just keep at it. You'll get better!!!!!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=245970

wowowowoww


WOW. I have to agree with the TSL coach though, EG's approach is just bad for lack of a nicer word but they just picked up one crazy player!


----------



## Sangers_low

OMG Elmo's in OCN?


----------



## DoomDash

GSLTL!!!!

huk beat check and mkp, check game was sick


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


GSLTL!!!!

huk beat check and mkp, check game was sick


Why they sent mkp who has 15% winrate in gstl is beyond my reach








I mean poltimus has 92% tvp! and skip him?


----------



## yks

thats what i said to doom when we were watching it live.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


thats what i said to doom when we were watching it live.


I don't remember you saying that.









Kidding hah


----------



## QuadDamage

Idra was streaming last night and getting rolled, he was playing really aggressive and not so much macro like he should. I was disappoint. I missed the game with Deezer. I love how cats was playing with him, knowing he has his stream up. That's why he always gets him, he watches his stream and searches at the same time.


----------



## Xyxyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treguo;14286560*
> Turn down the graphics settings and it will go down. Specifically it's the post proce


Yeah but I'm running high fps in the game at Extreme settings. I wouldn't want to lose that eye candy!







Thanks for the suggestion!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288020*
> I set my max fps at the menus at 30 FPS so it doesn't over work itself.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/375107634


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14288113*
> Do this. I have mine set to max 30 in the menu and 60 in the game, no issues


I had set frameratecapglue a few times over the past several months and it never seemed to work. It hit me last night though that I was editing the wrong variables.txt! After dropping my menu fps to 25, my GPU usage is now down to ~65%. Hooray!









Thanks!


----------



## Ruckol1

Posting from my newly acquired 2011 MacBook Pro!

Not sure if I'm going to be able to run Starcraft 2 on it seeing as it runs on the intregrated Sandy Bridge IGP, but may as well give it a shot.

P.s. most web fonts look funny


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14298044*
> Posting from my newly acquired 2011 MacBook Pro!
> 
> Not sure if I'm going to be able to run Starcraft 2 on it seeing as it runs on the intregrated Sandy Bridge IGP, but may as well give it a shot.
> 
> P.s. most web fonts look funny


My laptop will play it at low res on wide screen resolution (be sure to make mouse less laggy)

Laptop Specs
Pentium Dual Core [email protected] 2 ghz
3 gigs ram (2048 + 1024)
Intel HD 4500 IGP


----------



## xHassassin

Lol, a friend gave me his account for the Geforce tourney, where he got 7 FFWs in the qualifying round to advance.

This is G2 of the second match.

Just a little background:

In G1 I rolled zerg with random and did a 10 pool speedling all in. He didn't scout me early enough since it was on taldarim altar and so he lost.

After that I told him that whenever I roll zerg as random I always cheese since zerg is my weakest race.

And now we have this.



PLAYING THOSE MINDGAMES


----------



## DoomDash

Didn't even notice until just now we have two geforce matches a night....

Also, I am having strange SCII graphical issues all of a sudden. It happened to me once before when I used some nvidia beta drivers after awhile, but now its doing it against. Part of the screen is fragmented or tearing, and sometimes when I alt tab its pink. So far it doesn't look to be in the game itself but at the menus. I used ccleaner and driver sweeper in safe mode, and re-installed the drivers but the problem still exists. Anyone else have an issue like this ?


----------



## rhed5

When it rains, it pours. Now my root hard drive died on me without any warning. Piece of **** Samsung pinpoint f1. Ordred the crucial m4 64gb, wonder how long the RMA is going to take.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


When it rains, it pours. Now my root hard drive died on me without any warning. Piece of **** Samsung pinpoint f1. Ordred the crucial m4 64gb, wonder how long the RMA is going to take.


Sorry to hear. I hope my graphics issue goes away, I don't want to lose these easy win Geforce matches I have because of it.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sorry to hear. I hope my graphics issue goes away, I don't want to lose these easy win Geforce matches I have because of it.


Thanks, just hope everything arrives soon enough. Can't stand laptops.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Didn't even notice until just now we have two geforce matches a night....

Also, I am having strange SCII graphical issues all of a sudden. It happened to me once before when I used some nvidia beta drivers after awhile, but now its doing it against. Part of the screen is fragmented or tearing, and sometimes when I alt tab its pink. So far it doesn't look to be in the game itself but at the menus. I used ccleaner and driver sweeper in safe mode, and re-installed the drivers but the problem still exists. Anyone else have an issue like this ?


Not since march of 2008 when I got this:










It was due to a new driver with my 8800 gts 320 which was fixed when I reverted to my older driver.

Then when I upgraded to Vista x64 Business I got this until I upgraded drivers yet again:


----------



## zoodecks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Not since march of 2008 when I got this:










It was due to a new driver with my 8800 gts 320 which was fixed when I reverted to my older driver.

Then when I upgraded to Vista x64 Business I got this until I upgraded drivers yet again:











The Fckes wrong with your computer... godamn dude dont show that in public its hidious.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zoodecks*


The Fckes wrong with your computer... godamn dude dont show that in public its hidious.


ROFLMAO

nvidia has so many problems with sc2







. My setup never gives me trouble and it's always stuck on 60fps


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


ROFLMAO

nvidia has so many problems with sc2







. My setup never gives me trouble and it's always stuck on 60fps










Really? If you look through this thread ATI people had *way* more problems than NVIDIA.

Anyway I think I may have found the problem, and its a problem with the 500 series. We'll see.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Really? If you look through this thread ATI people had *way* more problems than NVIDIA.

Anyway I think I may have found the problem, and its a problem with the 500 series. We'll see.


I had some issues myself at one point with artifacting(getting lines in the campaign, etc...) but during the game, there was no issues at all that I noticed. Its has gone away now, no clue the reason but try to check if its a gpu issue(furmark, etc...)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


ROFLMAO

nvidia has so many problems with sc2







. My setup never gives me trouble and it's always stuck on 60fps










hehe, never had issues with SCII. Only time I saw something was a while back but I think it was my gpu because it was artifacting even in Kombuster but its working fine now so I dunno what changed


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Really? If you look through this thread ATI people had *way* more problems than NVIDIA.

Anyway I think I may have found the problem, and its a problem with the 500 series. We'll see.


ATI was a NIGHTMARE for me with SC2. I always got the corrupted/glitched cursor icon when I had my 5770. That's actually the whole reason I upgraded to my 560 Ti.


----------



## Starman27

Yeah, I get the glitched cursor with SC2 and my 6950 all the time. Planning on switching to Nvidia the next chance I get.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


ATI was a NIGHTMARE for me with SC2. I always got the corrupted/glitched cursor icon when I had my 5770. That's actually the whole reason I upgraded to my 560 Ti.


Yeah, I heard tons of ATI horror stories.

PS: I think I indeed figured it out. Strangely enough you have to turn off your computer and unplug it.... Just played 2 games with 0 issues. Strange.

It's a common problem. http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=811877&mpage=1


----------



## Starman27

If anyone feels like taking a look and helping a noob out, I just had what I think was a pretty decent game. Keep in mind it is only like my 5th non-placement game, so I know I have lots to work on, but would love any input or tips anyone has to offer. I am pretty proud of only getting supply blocked once I think, and how low I kept my money most of the game. I have really been trying to work on that, but towards the end you will see it shoot up. I was at 190/200 most of the time, and had a lot of upgrades, I see that I should of added another expansion or two, but that's 1 or 2k spent, what else can I be doing with my money at that point in the game? I am Veiledaiel in the game, and it's a longer game this time, so hopefully there is more that can be taken out of it. Thanks!

http://replayfu.com/r/3vrGLf

Edit: Oh, and I see that I didn't hotkey my rax right away, which I am usually better at, but it completely slipped my mind for some reason


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah, I heard tons of ATI horror stories.

PS: I think I indeed figured it out. Strangely enough you have to turn off your computer and unplug it.... Just played 2 games with 0 issues. Strange.

It's a common problem. http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=811877&mpage=1


Yeah I DID hear ati stories, but never actually had problems myself







. Heard bunch of weird things about SLI from sc2 friends tho


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


If anyone feels like taking a look and helping a noob out, I just had what I think was a pretty decent game. Keep in mind it is only like my 5th non-placement game, so I know I have lots to work on, but would love any input or tips anyone has to offer. I am pretty proud of only getting supply blocked once I think, and how low I kept my money most of the game. I have really been trying to work on that, but towards the end you will see it shoot up. I was at 190/200 most of the time, and had a lot of upgrades, I see that I should of added another expansion or two, but that's 1 or 2k spent, what else can I be doing with my money at that point in the game? I am Veiledaiel in the game, and it's a longer game this time, so hopefully there is more that can be taken out of it. Thanks!

http://replayfu.com/r/3vrGLf


I HATE ****water gulch









I scanned through it and..

Dont do that opening cause mutas will be out. do 12/14 2rax or helion expand
Get combat shields
No vikes until broodlords
no 250mm strike cannons, they r useless.
Push out before 27min lol. First push should be 7-9min. Helion rine or tank rine.
more expo, obviously. second goes up before 12min. and more workers.
the zerg was horrid btw


----------



## Starman27

I'm sticking with the 1/1/1 opening right now, because I have been told by lots of people to just get one opening to start with and master it, then move on. And that is the one suggested most.

Thanks for the other tips though, I will definitely keep them in mind. And yeah I know the guy was awful, but it's also bronze, so most people are, including myself







Thanks again.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


I'm sticking with the 1/1/1 opening right now, because I have been told by lots of people to just get one opening to start with and master it, then move on. And that is the one suggested most.

Thanks for the other tips though, I will definitely keep them in mind. And yeah I know the guy was awful, but it's also bronze, so most people are, including myself







Thanks again.


Um... 1/1/1 for tvz was suggested most... ? Who r u asking...it's fine against T(banshee or helion drop) and cheesy against toss (banshee expand or raven,rine,tank all in), but for tvz, it's downright horrid


----------



## Starman27

Just as a general for the three, not the best for tvz. I am using that open for all three right now until I get comfortable enough with it to add another.


----------



## ThumperSD

Ive had 0 problems the last 6 months or so with my 5850. I used to get that cursor glitch occasionally but after an update, it went away. It didnt bother me much anyway. Im just hoping it will run DIII ok. I dont feel like upgrading.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Ive had 0 problems the last 6 months or so with my 5850. I used to get that cursor glitch occasionally but after an update, it went away. It didnt bother me much anyway. Im just hoping it will run DIII ok. I dont feel like upgrading.


I only got the cursor glitch when i had Xfire 5850's one died and I am to broke to replace so just running one.


----------



## yks

i never had no problems ever on either my 3850, 4670, or 5870.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## BountyHead

I have those same frames, but mine have polarized lenses lol


----------



## Elmateo487

I've never had any problems on my 5870 or my crossfire 6950s


----------



## DoomDash

GSTL:

QXC ALL KILLS IM!!!!! MVP 4th opponent too


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


GSTL:

QXC ALL KILLS IM!!!!! MVP 4th opponent too


OMG!!!!!!!!! QXC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw IM coach is soooooo dead, fielding noobs 3 times and MVslumP for ace? FIRED B1T*H


----------



## brl3git

I dont get it, why didnt IM put in losira or mma sooner, they underestimated QXC quite a bit and I can only imagine the amount of face palm at the IM house tonight.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brl3git*


I dont get it, why didnt IM put in losira or *mvp* sooner, they underestimated QXC quite a bit and I can only imagine the amount of face palm at the IM house tonight.


Also, happy, yongwha and yoda are very good players, who shouldve been brought before mvp/nestea.


----------



## Dr216

Was kind of odd not seeing some known players earlier, but you also have to take into account the way the tourney is structured IM even in 3rd still gets a spot in the playoffs, it is likely that they consider nestea and losira's ro4 more important matches to focus on and just beat team MVP to make the semi's.

im not sure if i understand the scores right but i think either way they would have only come 2nd in the grp its possible they knew that and decided from a tactical stand point they were better off giving as many young bloods some experience as possible.


----------



## yks

IM is guaranteed 3rd place and possibly 2nd place if ST loses their next 2 rounds.

getting their newer players stage experience is pretty important.

even ST who is guaranteed 2nd/3rd sent out vampireman for laughs/experience.

once the group stage is over and they head to brackets. we'll see serious lineups.

qxc did play sexy tho.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


IM is guaranteed 3rd place and possibly 2nd place if ST loses their next 2 rounds.

getting their newer players stage experience is pretty important.

even ST who is guaranteed 2nd/3rd sent out vampireman for laughs/experience.

once the group stage is over and they head to brackets. we'll see serious lineups.

qxc did play sexy tho.


Yeah, it doesn't damage IM in anyway and helps FXO tremendously.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Yeah, it doesn't damage IM in anyway and helps FXO tremendously.


Yeah, it doesn't. So stuff like:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


btw IM coach is soooooo dead, fielding noobs 3 times and MVslumP for ace? FIRED B1T*H


is horrible. Cause who could he send out?

NesTea/Losira? No way. They are both in the Ro4, you can't expect them to play 4games in a row and reveal any strategies.

MVP was the only logical choice for ace.

He made the smart choice in giving his newer players stage experience once the play-offs were secured.

Mr. Kang, [oops]Lee, Cella, and TheWind are sick-sick coaches.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Yeah, it doesn't. So stuff like:

is horrible. Cause who could he send out?

NesTea/Losira? No way. They are both in the Ro4, you can't expect them to play 4games in a row and reveal any strategies.

MVP was the only logical choice for ace.

He made the smart choice in giving his newer players stage experience once the play-offs were secured.

Mr. Kang, [oops]Lee, Cella, and TheWind are sick-sick coaches.


Nah he could've sent out Happy, yoda or yonghwa, if he wanted to win more. I cant agree with cella being a sick "coach" lol. Trololo


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Nah he could've sent out Happy, yoda or yonghwa, if he wanted to win more. I cant agree with cella being a sick "coach" lol. Trololo










Happy, Yoda, and Yonghwa all already have stage experience though.

So the first 3 who haven't and then MVP sounds fine.

And cella is sick. Period.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Happy, Yoda, and Yonghwa all already have stage experience though.

So the first 3 who haven't and then MVP sounds fine.

And cella is sick. Period.


If IM cared about winning no that's not fine lol. First game=unexperienced player, that's fine, but u dont send three newbs with no sniping strats. Should've been yoda or yonghwa for the second game and happy if the game went 2:0.

There's nothing wrong with IM's play, unless zenex wins all of their next games and IM drops out







, but IM's play yesterday wasnt focused on winning


----------



## Sangers_low

Cella is a troll period lol


----------



## yks

That's the whole point I was trying to make in the original: "IM is guaranteed 3rd place and possibly 2nd place if ST loses their next 2 rounds.

getting their newer players stage experience is pretty important."

Getting their newer players stage experience since playoffs is basically secured.

Even if ZeNeX wins their next match, if ST loses their next match, IM is secured. if ST wins their next match, IM just has to beat ST or lose with a good +/-

//

And Cella is beast-mode. Even DongRaeGu said in an interview that if the stars aligned where Cella didn't end up as SlayerS coach, Cella would've been a top zerg.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


That's the whole point I was trying to make in the original: "IM is guaranteed 3rd place and possibly 2nd place if ST loses their next 2 rounds.

getting their newer players stage experience is pretty important."

Getting their newer players stage experience since playoffs is basically secured.

Even if ZeNeX wins their next match, if ST loses their next match, IM is secured. if ST wins their next match, IM just has to beat ST or lose with a good +/-

//

And Cella is beast-mode. Even DongRaeGu said in an interview that if the stars aligned where Cella didn't end up as SlayerS coach, Cella would've been a top zerg.


It falls down to who wins ST vs IM, but if IM loses that and zenex wins against NSH, IM will prolly drop out cause they are sitting at -1.

w/e it's unlikely, but IM didnt focus on winning on yesterday's match and just using happy instead of dreamertt could've caused far more favourable results.

BTW, I'm aussie so FXO is my fav team, but IM is also my favourite kr team. I'm thrilled by the result, but I'm arguing that the loss itself is coach's fault

Good player =/= good coach. We can't know the latter. But we know cella's a troll


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

edited *moved*


----------



## Starman27

So when S3 starts next week, what happens with leagues? Does everyone stay where they are and resume working towards getting promoted, or does everyone go through placement again and start clean basically? Sorry for the nub question, just have heard things that make me feel like both are right. Thanks!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


So when S3 starts next week, what happens with leagues? Does everyone stay where they are and resume working towards getting promoted, or does everyone go through placement again and start clean basically? Sorry for the nub question, just have heard things that make me feel like both are right. Thanks!


Ur MMR stays same, but u'll need to do ONE placement match for each of ur teams. Ur points get reset and so will ur record.

It's a bloody pain and demoralises a lot of players, no idea why they do it so frequently









I'll be laddering on SEA after i catch a break from study


----------



## Starman27

Wow, that's kinda a crappy system. Oh well, I feel like by next week I should be able to place into silver for sure, maybe gold if I get lucky.


----------



## Twistacles

Ungh, im prob gonna get demoted when s2 comes around. Such a crazy losing streak, happens every goddamn season


----------



## Elmateo487

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


Wow, that's kinda a crappy system. Oh well, I feel like by next week I should be able to place into silver for sure, maybe gold if I get lucky.


It makes sense, because if they didnt do it so often, no one would have a chance at getting 1st in a league. I was diamond 3v3 with around 200 points, last game I played in 3v3 random was the beginning of the season. I had to play every day for the last two weeks to catch up, tons of a games a day with a 75% win ratio to get to where I am now, 9th and that's only with around 1000 points. The top guy is like 1800. If they didn't reset the leagues no one would be able to pass the into the top ten because those guys pay hundreds and hundreds of games, and they don't play well enough to promote.

You have to already be overly active as it is with the short seasons.

More than likely if you lose or win your placement you will place into the same league you were before


----------



## Starman27

Yeah, I think resetting the leagues is a good thing, I was thinking more the one placement game system for starting the season sucked.


----------



## DoomDash

As long as they do it in the same time frame its good. Season 1 was too long, but if season 3 is the same as Season 2 you have a good idea of how much better or worse you did. If I compare my season 1 and 2 there is a 1900 point difference lol.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14315932*
> As long as they do it in the same time frame its good. Season 1 was too long, but if season 3 is the same as Season 2 you have a good idea of how much better or worse you did. If I compare my season 1 and 2 there is a 1900 point difference lol.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sClQjACp3E


But ur sc2ranks ranking is prolly similar for s1 and s2

I'd hope the early ending of s2 means HoTs is near







Or I guess blizzard likes trolling us with crap maps


----------



## DoomDash

Maps 2-4 <3.

Starman did you watch this?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m36BSwQY0Ag[/ame]


----------



## DoomDash

Hellion tight, ling/drone open Z block:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246215


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14316772*
> Hellion tight, ling/drone open Z block:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246215


Doesn't every zerg know that?... 

Unless t commits to bf, i think most zergs wouldn't have any problems with early helions


----------



## DoomDash

I never see any do it, ever.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14316836*
> I never see any do it, ever.


rly..? 

btw interesting read on the maps http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246624


----------



## Mwarren

That zerg wall block seems kind of useless to me. If a terran commits to bf hellions and manages to keep any drones from mining the natural than he has done a serious amount of economic damage by disabling the natural. Not to manage you can just drop hellions in the back when you get out medivacs.


----------



## BigFan

I just played this game:

I was trying to get used to my new laptop's much smaller screen and keyboard. I didn't do too badly I think. What do you guys think? How were my ffs? Guessing I could've used less but playing with everything smaller, it feels different


----------



## ntherblast

Hey all so i'm doing the campaign missions over again to get achievements. Was wondering if it is possible to get all research and armory upgrades on one play through? Also does playing a mission and beating it on brutal give more points than casual? Lastly can I get all the normal, brutal, hard achievements on one play through?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14319390*
> Hey all so i'm doing the campaign missions over again to get achievements. Was wondering if it is possible to get all research and armory upgrades on one play through? Also does playing a mission and beating it on brutal give more points than casual? Lastly can I get all the normal, brutal, hard achievements on one play through?


Yes to all. You can get the research/armory upgrades. I didn't in mine but if you save them up then you can buy all the specific ones and reload. Same number of points regardless of difficult and yes, you can get all the achievements on one play through


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14319791*
> Yes to all. You can get the research/armory upgrades. I didn't in mine but if you save them up then you can buy all the specific ones and reload. Same number of points regardless of difficult and yes, you can get all the achievements on one play through


How do you get max zerg and protoss xenobiology in 1 playthrough?


----------



## Starman27

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Maps 2-4 <3.

Starman did you watch this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m36BSwQY0Ag


Yeah, that one helped me a lot. I work at a hotel, so I spend about
7 hours of my shift watching day9 videos and reading on team liquid, lol.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


How do you get max zerg and protoss xenobiology in 1 playthrough?


How? Just complete them in each mission. They'll tell you that the mission will get you 3/4 Zerg/Protoss research so search for all of them. You'll have about 10 extra or so by the end









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starman27*


Yeah, that one helped me a lot. I work at a hotel, so I spend about
7 hours of my shift watching day9 videos and reading on team liquid, lol.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


haha, nice, nice!


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


How? Just complete them in each mission. They'll tell you that the mission will get you 3/4 Zerg/Protoss research so search for all of them. You'll have about 10 extra or so by the end









haha, nice, nice!










hmm i did a mission and forgot to do it again to get a relic i missed will i ever be able to play it again to get it?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


hmm i did a mission and forgot to do it again to get a relic i missed will i ever be able to play it again to get it?


You should be able to in the mission archives on the hyperion but if you are on the last mission, then unfortunately, its too late to get it(you can still get it but can't use it for the xenobiology anymore since you aren't on Hyperion anymore).

Edit: Interesting BR:
http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/20...ro-vs-demuslim


----------



## DoomDash

BL + mass Infestor is so damn OP lol.


----------



## falco216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomdash;14326111*
> bl + mass infestor is so damn op lol.


:3


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuByO0gRiUE&[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukVd0oLWW_0[/ame]


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Oh great, I won 4 out of 5 placement games and I got placed into Platinum







I'm not even good and barely can macro a single base, so I'll just proceed getting slaughtered forever.. Or not. Somehow I've won a few games already, even though I've never played ladder before







Is platinum really that bad? It's strange when it's right under diamond..

Early marine-marauder push seems to win me the game almost every time..


----------



## DoomDash

As with anything you need a large amount of games played for them to accurately judge your skill. If you are placed to high you will be demoted eventually.'

PS:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14326111*
> BL + mass Infestor is so damn OP lol.


hehe, guessing you had more experiences








0
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;14326736*
> Oh great, I won 4 out of 5 placement games and I got placed into Platinum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not even good and barely can macro a single base, so I'll just proceed getting slaughtered forever.. Or not. Somehow I've won a few games already, even though I've never played ladder before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is platinum really that bad? It's strange when it's right under diamond..
> 
> Early marine-marauder push seems to win me the game almost every time..


As doom mentioned, if you aren't meant to be in Plat, you'll be demoted and can move up








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14326739*
> As with anything you need a large amount of games played for them to accurately judge your skill. If you are placed to high you will be demoted eventually.'
> 
> PS:


Darn, I've always wanted to be the first to actually nuke someone from OCN


----------



## DoomDash

You've nuked me before BigFan.

and yes with any normal composition tvz bl infestor is practically unbeatable.

The way I beat Fishbulb is either beating him earlier than that comp comes, or by doing mass ghosts, and I mean 75% of my army as ghosts, and him not actually attempting to change his unit comp.

New maps are on real bnet now in the custom game section.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14327346*
> You've nuked me before BigFan.
> 
> and yes with any normal composition tvz bl infestor is practically unbeatable.
> 
> The way I beat Fishbulb is either beating him earlier than that comp comes, or by doing mass ghosts, and I mean 75% of my army as ghosts, and him not actually attempting to change his unit comp.
> 
> New maps are on real bnet now in the custom game section.


Have I?







I can't remember


----------



## Theory

Add me to the player list Region: NA, B.Net: Theory, Charcode: 346


----------



## Starman27

Oh yeah, add me to the list too I guess. I'm NA region, VeiledAiel.956


----------



## DoomDash

Do you guys mean our sc2ranks division ? easiest to link your sc2ranks profile.


----------



## ntherblast

any tips on doing utter darkness brutal?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


any tips on doing utter darkness brutal?


YES!

1. Lay down some more gateways and get a dark templar shrine. Get some dts ASAP and use them to block the entrances. Make sure to put them on HOLD otherwise they'll move on their own. 
2. Build lots of gateways to reinforce and cannons on top of the cliff/in your base/behind dts(in that order).
3. Keep making more units while upgrading to max(immortals are great against hybrids if u wanna take that route!!!!!)
4. Personally, I went for a lot of phoenixes and tried to snipe any and all overseers that came with the army(they start adding them eventually from 1 to 3 in each army) to make sure that my dts were still undetected. They'll at least kill a dt or two so make sure to remake dts and block the entrance again.
5. They'll also start adding in BLs/mutas so make sure to go around and snipe those fast otherwise your cliff cannons are going to go down fast!
6. Use your units wisely, especially once you get the mothership because I've had some cases where I failed the objective because I needed to kill 25 more units








7. HAVE FUN!!!!!!









If I think of anything else, I'll make a mention but having the dts, upgrades, lots of cannons and large air force will mean that you can last for a while by denying detection and the cannons will help once they start using worms


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


YES!

1. Lay down some more gateways and get a dark templar shrine. Get some dts ASAP and use them to block the entrances. Make sure to put them on HOLD otherwise they'll move on their own. 
2. Build lots of gateways to reinforce and cannons on top of the cliff/in your base/behind dts(in that order).
3. Keep making more units while upgrading to max(immortals are great against hybrids if u wanna take that route!!!!!)
4. Personally, I went for a lot of phoenixes and tried to snipe any and all overseers that came with the army(they start adding them eventually from 1 to 3 in each army) to make sure that my dts were still undetected. They'll at least kill a dt or two so make sure to remake dts and block the entrance again.
5. They'll also start adding in BLs/mutas so make sure to go around and snipe those fast otherwise your cliff cannons are going to go down fast!
6. Use your units wisely, especially once you get the mothership because I've had some cases where I failed the objective because I needed to kill 25 more units








7. HAVE FUN!!!!!!









If I think of anything else, I'll make a mention but having the dts, upgrades, lots of cannons and large air force will mean that you can last for a while by denying detection and the cannons will help once they start using worms










hmm thanks I have it a try before you replied. I beat it pretty easily i abandoned the low ground where the archive was and walled with pylons and cannons. Then I made 8 collosus, 12 phenoixs to lift off hybrids, then when carriers came i massed them I made it to 3,348 was easier than i thought. Still having trouble with welcome to the jungle


----------



## nachielous

Add me to the list please...IGN : Nachielous Character Code: 713


----------



## murderbymodem

I don't care how many times I have to knock this gummybear person back down to rank 3, I'm gonna hold my rank 2 spot until Season 3 starts.


----------



## Fortunex

Just switched from Toss to Zerg, what a change. Still failing hard in 1v1s (I somehow got placed in gold as Toss, I think I'm a high bronze, maybe low silver player).

Determined to learn Zerg though, they look like so much fun.


----------



## DoomDash

GSL


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



ZvZ finals :/


----------



## TheChillburger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14337342*
> GSL
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ZvZ finals :/


Nestea is INSANE.


----------



## DoomDash

Discuss:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2878491244


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14337925*
> Discuss:
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2878491244


This problem would be fixed if Ghosts actually got rid of all of the infestors energy with one emp. Ghosts needing more than one emp to disable infestors is idiotic because just take a look at protoss's spell caster, the templar. They have feedback which immediately gets rid of all of the units energy AND deals damage to that unit based on how much energy it had. Ghosts should at least drain all of the units energy.

Fungal should also cost more energy in my opinion. Make it cost 100 energy so that they have to build up energy even with the pathogen gland energy upgrade just like how templar has to build up energy to use storm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14338693*
> This problem would be fixed if Ghosts actually got rid of all of the infestors energy with one emp. Ghosts needing more than one emp to disable infestors is idiotic because just take a look at protoss's spell caster, the templar. They have feedback which immediately gets rid of all of the units energy AND deals damage to that unit based on how much energy it had. Ghosts should at least drain all of the units energy.
> 
> Fungal should also cost more energy in my opinion. Make it cost 100 energy so that they have to build up energy even with the pathogen gland energy upgrade just like how templar has to build up energy to use storm.


hmm, maybe remove pathogen gland energy instead? Doesn't storm cost as much as FG? Difference is you can move out but it does more damage while FG locks you down but does less damage.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14338693*
> Fungal should also cost more energy in my opinion. Make it cost 100 energy so that they have to build up energy even with the pathogen gland energy upgrade just like how templar has to build up energy to use storm.


No. I can barely get Infestors out in time to deal with air attacks as it is. A few days ago I played a ZvZ where my opponent went muta. 3 Infestors popped with the energy upgrade as soon as the muta flew into my base. I got three perfect fungal growths on the muta ball, but sadly it takes four to kill muta. He was still easily able to kill my Infestors, along with all my queens and spores with the number of red muta he had.









I don't like going Hydra, so Infestors with fungal are vital for dealing with balls of air units.


----------



## Starman27

I'm kinda having a conflict. I started learning Terran because it seemed the most intuitive and the campaign was Terran ofc. But Toss keeps looking really intriguing and more fun to me, plus there seems to be more activity for Toss and I spend most of my stream watching time watching Huck anyways, lol. Do you guys think it would be a bad idea to try Toss out and learn it instead of Terran?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14339004*
> No. I can barely get Infestors out in time to deal with air attacks as it is. A few days ago I played a ZvZ where my opponent went muta. 3 Infestors popped with the energy upgrade as soon as the muta flew into my base. I got three perfect fungal growths on the muta ball, but sadly it takes four to kill muta. He was still easily able to kill my Infestors, along with all my queens and spores with the number of red muta he had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't like going Hydra*, so Infestors with fungal are vital for dealing with balls of air units.


There is your problem! Hydras rip apart mutas and with a FG or two, his muta army will be gone like that with minimal losses on your part. They are almost a must in ZvsZ games due to the chance of your opponent going mutas








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Starman27;14340822*
> I'm kinda having a conflict. I started learning Terran because it seemed the most intuitive and the campaign was Terran ofc. But Toss keeps looking really intriguing and more fun to me, plus there seems to be more activity for Toss and I spend most of my stream watching time watching Huck anyways, lol. Do you guys think it would be a bad idea to try Toss out and learn it instead of Terran?


Nothing wrong with that, you can switch races if you like. If you don't like Toss, you can always switch back









Just played this TvsZ:

Bad decision making towards the end and misclicks to move(siege tanks) cost me the game -_-'


----------



## poroboszcz

I think making infestors slower would solve some of the problems.


----------



## Fortunex

I love these guys. This is (imo) the best cast from the best casters.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Sainesk

Boo!

i'm thinking about using my name change when I get back from holiday... to something like SweetPoison...

Big, when are you gonna get your brutal badge already!? (just so that when you announce it I can say "hell, it's about time.")


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


There is your problem! Hydras rip apart mutas and with a FG or two, his muta army will be gone like that with minimal losses on your part. They are almost a must in ZvsZ games due to the chance of your opponent going mutas










Yeah, and then you know what happens after I go hydra? The other guy switches to making no muta at all and just goes super heavy Roaches, which completely destroy Hydra.

I prefer to just make Roaches and Hydras, even if my opponent goes muta.


----------



## yks

Season 3 maps:

1v1

Removed:
Scrap Station (2)
Slag Pits (4)
Delta Quadrant (4)
Metalopolis (4)

Carried over:
Xel'Naga Caverns (2)
Backwater Gulch (4)
Shakuras Plateau (4)
Tal'Darim Altar LE (4)
The Shattered Temple (4)
Typhon Peaks (4)

New:
Nerazim Crypt (4)
Searing Crater (4)
Antiga Shipyard (4)
Abyssal Caverns (4)


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Season 3 maps:

1v1

Removed:
Scrap Station (2)
Slag Pits (4)
Delta Quadrant (4)
Metalopolis (4)

Carried over:
Xelâ€™Naga Caverns (2)
Backwater Gulch (4)
Shakuras Plateau (4)
Tal'Darim Altar LE (4)
The Shattered Temple (4)
Typhon Peaks (4)

New:
Nerazim Crypt (4)
Searing Crater (4)
Antiga Shipyard (4)
Abyssal Caverns (4)



Season 3 start already? I haven't had a chance to log in for a couple days


----------



## xHassassin

GUESS WHO WINS THIS TOTALLY EVENLY MATCHED GAME.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...ails&id=223091

Also TvT is so stupid. Banshee/hellion/tank/viking is pretty ridiculous.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Season 3 start already? I haven't had a chance to log in for a couple days


Tomorrow it starts I believe. The ladder lock was three weeks... A bit ridiculous in my opinion. Unless I'm going to get some kind of achievement, portrait, etc; I could care less what rank I am unless I am GM or M rank.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Season 3 maps:

1v1

Removed:
Scrap Station (2)
Slag Pits (4)
Delta Quadrant (4)
Metalopolis (4)

Carried over:
Xelâ€™Naga Caverns (2)
Backwater Gulch (4)
Shakuras Plateau (4)
Tal'Darim Altar LE (4)
The Shattered Temple (4)
Typhon Peaks (4)

New:
Nerazim Crypt (4)
Searing Crater (4)
Antiga Shipyard (4)
Abyssal Caverns (4)


Cool, exactly the 3 maps I didn't play in this season, but why the hell Metalopolis? It's one of the best maps, if they only disabled close spawns.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Cool, exactly the 3 maps I didn't play in this season, but why the hell Metalopolis? It's one of the best maps, if they only disabled close spawns.


Still, there are reasons why we decided to retire Metalopolis for now:

Metalopolis has been around for quite a long time, over a year including beta. We felt that taking it out of the rotation would make some room for variety in the map pool.

Metalopolis suffers balance issues when close spawn positions occur, but becomes too predictable when they are simply disabled. Close positions have been under a lot of discussion lately, and weâ€™re definitely examining better options to allow for random spawn positions across the map pool without also creating too much predictability and vulnerability to proxy rushes.

Overall balance has also proven to be an issue on Metalopolis -- even factoring in close position spawn issues. Itâ€™s among the least balanced maps currently in the ladder pool, and along with Scrap Station (also being removed) and Talâ€™darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play.

If Metalopolis makes a return to the ladder pool in the future, it will likely receive some balance tinkering, much like that administered to Lost Temple which resulted in the creation of Shattered Temple. In the meantime, we hope that you enjoy the fresh maps that have been added to the ladder pool in Season 3

//

Cause it was 60%+ in favor for Zerg regardless of spawn distance.


----------



## Mwarren

It sort of makes sense because coming from a Terran's perspective, even if you control the xel nagas on that map you cant straight up deny the natural 4th/5th expansions just because there's no real mid on metal. Compared to Shattered which has a middle and if you can control it than you can cut off the natural 4th and 5th expos.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


No. I can barely get Infestors out in time to deal with air attacks as it is. A few days ago I played a ZvZ where my opponent went muta. 3 Infestors popped with the energy upgrade as soon as the muta flew into my base. I got three perfect fungal growths on the muta ball, but sadly it takes four to kill muta. He was still easily able to kill my Infestors, along with all my queens and spores with the number of red muta he had.









I don't like going Hydra, so Infestors with fungal are vital for dealing with balls of air units.


Why didn't you just get more queens and a few spores?


----------



## BigFan

Darn, my reply was erased :/

TLDR; I was talking about the fact that infestors aren't your only means of AA and that an FG or two with about 10 hydras is more than enough to deal with a mass of mutas due to dps and range difference. Nice to see explanation of why meta was taken out, can't wait to get S3 started


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14345979*
> Darn, my reply was erased :/
> 
> TLDR; I was talking about the fact that infestors aren't your only means of AA and that an FG or two with about 10 hydras is more than enough to deal with a mass of mutas due to dps and range difference. Nice to see explanation of why meta was taken out, can't wait to get S3 started


I beat idra with bling/muta/ling cause he went roach hydra with 50%ish hydra numbers. Face it, hydras suck, are not cost efficient and have less health than hellions.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14345573*
> Still, there are reasons why we decided to retire Metalopolis for now:
> 
> Metalopolis has been around for quite a long time, over a year including beta. We felt that taking it out of the rotation would make some room for variety in the map pool.
> 
> Metalopolis suffers balance issues when close spawn positions occur, but becomes too predictable when they are simply disabled. Close positions have been under a lot of discussion lately, and we're definitely examining better options to allow for random spawn positions across the map pool without also creating too much predictability and vulnerability to proxy rushes.
> 
> Overall balance has also proven to be an issue on Metalopolis -- even factoring in close position spawn issues. It's among the least balanced maps currently in the ladder pool, and along with Scrap Station (also being removed) and Tal'darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play.
> 
> If Metalopolis makes a return to the ladder pool in the future, it will likely receive some balance tinkering, much like that administered to Lost Temple which resulted in the creation of Shattered Temple. In the meantime, we hope that you enjoy the fresh maps that have been added to the ladder pool in Season 3
> 
> //
> 
> Cause it was 60%+ in favor for Zerg regardless of spawn distance.


TDA is favoured for zerg in pvz...? since when


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14346944*
> TDA is favoured for zerg in pvz...? since when


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2878771457#1


----------



## falco216

Apparently DoomDash doesn't know that a changeling can hold a watchtower.









Nice scan.


----------



## DoomDash

Does not come up often apparently.

*

Silly Geforce gave me a loss for a 2-0 win ( which I had an email confirmation about ) that even had replays attached. Hopefully the email I sent to tech support fixes this soon







.


----------



## rhed5

Installed my SSD, and I've been flying. Hollar if you guys want to play.


----------



## Wubble

I've been struggling lately with Protoss about 4 wins 5 losses in season 3 top 25 gold and I am out of ideas anyone got some good builds or anything?


----------



## yks

ugh, finished the day off at 7-7


----------



## BountyHead

I haven't logged in today. I wanna try the new maps but at the same time i feel kinda burnt out. Like I do not think i can get any better unless i really put some time into the game, my mechanics are just so bad


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14346937*
> I beat idra with bling/muta/ling cause he went roach hydra with 50%ish hydra numbers. Face it, hydras suck, are not cost efficient and have less health than hellions.


huh? Where did I say they were the awesome units they once were. Having said that, I still think roach hydra with a couple of infestors will win a slings/bling/army. Consider that one FG takes out a lot of slings/banes and the roaches can tank a lot of damage with the hydras taking out mutas from behind but that's theorycrafting. Either way, I was pointing out to him that infestors aren't his only AA option in ZvsZ.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14356487*
> I haven't logged in today. I wanna try the new maps but at the same time i feel kinda burnt out. Like I do not think i can get any better unless i really put some time into the game, my mechanics are just so bad


Go random and just have FUN!!!!!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falco216;14350070*
> Apparently DoomDash doesn't know that a changeling can hold a watchtower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice scan.


hehe, did he target his own tank?


----------



## BountyHead

Every time I go random I seem to get zerg like 8/10 matches so i say fsk it and just stay zerg lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14356947*
> 
> hehe, did he target his own tank?


No that shot is tanks shooting broodlords







.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14356487*
> I haven't logged in today. I wanna try the new maps but at the same time i feel kinda burnt out. Like I do not think i can get any better unless i really put some time into the game, my mechanics are just so bad


This is why we have team games


----------



## 13321G4

Hi guys

Recently bought the game and I'm loving it. I've watched the newbie tuesdays and have decided on going Protoss. (I'm somehow always drawn to the high tech aliens  ).

However I'm crap and I've really got some problems. Firstly, the strategy I want to use (2 Starport Carrier) is widely accused of being crappy and its a build I'm designing myself. Furthermore, whenever I play (with whatever strategy) , because I remember Day9 saying "probes and pylons, probes and pylons, probes and pylons" I build mass probes and end up with a huge mineral count. Keeping gas low is no problem but the minerals skyrocket. Feels bad knowing that my Macro is slipping constantly. I think I need to build more zealots.

How many Warp Gates do you need to keep a fully saturated mineral field low on minerals & gas? Talking stalker zealot here, haven't got the APM yet to fully utilize sentries.

Thanks in advanced. Thought I'll just throw it out there!


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt;14358424*
> How many Warp Gates do you need to keep a fully saturated mineral field low on minerals & gas? Talking stalker zealot here, haven't got the APM yet to fully utilize sentries.
> 
> Thanks in advanced. Thought I'll just throw it out there!


30 probes = fully saturated base
3 probes x 8 mineral fields = 24 probes for minerals
3 probes x 2 assimilatrs = 6 probes for gas
30 probes total

One base can sustain:

4 gates OR
2 or 3 gate + robo or starport


----------



## CravinR1

Found this funny


----------



## dropkickninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt;14358424*
> Hi guys
> 
> Recently bought the game and I'm loving it. I've watched the newbie tuesdays and have decided on going Protoss. (I'm somehow always drawn to the high tech aliens  ).
> 
> However I'm crap and I've really got some problems. Firstly, the strategy I want to use (2 Starport Carrier) is widely accused of being crappy and its a build I'm designing myself. Furthermore, whenever I play (with whatever strategy) , because I remember Day9 saying "probes and pylons, probes and pylons, probes and pylons" I build mass probes and end up with a huge mineral count. Keeping gas low is no problem but the minerals skyrocket. Feels bad knowing that my Macro is slipping constantly. I think I need to build more zealots.
> 
> How many Warp Gates do you need to keep a fully saturated mineral field low on minerals & gas? Talking stalker zealot here, haven't got the APM yet to fully utilize sentries.
> 
> Thanks in advanced. Thought I'll just throw it out there!


Agreed it's generally 4 structures per base when fully saturated.


----------



## Silentness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14288829*
> It's more like this : Ghost moves a bit forward and starts sniping BL's, BL's then shoot the ghost killing them some what quickly, not only with their huge damage but the fact that any sieged tanks will kill your own ghosts in the process. Stay unsieged than you say? Oh, no problem, you get 1Aed by the lings and banes while the infestors FG everything ( not enough EMP's for all of them ) and you literally cannot micro, or siege because FG prevents both, and if you aren't sieged 1A ling/bane will kill all.
> 
> It's really bogus in Z's favor in most circumstances ( which is why its being talked about being nerfed , you don't hear it the other way around do you? ), however I think that defensive upgraded PF's MAY be the answer and may be the only way to prevent your tanks from killing your ghosts, and still being safe sieged. But an almost any situation where you don't have a defensive PF the advantage is zergs.
> 
> As much as you would love to argue it Blizzards balance team as well as people like morrow disagree with you and think its a little too good atm.


Unless you are some gosu Korean player that has enough APM to micro manage his tanks to focus fire lings/banelings instead of splashing your own ghosts due to broodlings and can snipe broodlords at the same time.

>,<

Oh yeah and doesn't Morrow play TvZ now instead of ZvZ?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14357911*
> No that shot is tanks shooting broodlords
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


ah I see, couldn't see the BL in the screenshot








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14357431*
> Every time I go random I seem to get zerg like 8/10 matches so i say fsk it and just stay zerg lol


hehe, I used to get P/T a lot more and Z is every once in a while








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt;14358424*
> Hi guys
> 
> Recently bought the game and I'm loving it. I've watched the newbie tuesdays and have decided on going Protoss. (I'm somehow always drawn to the high tech aliens  ).
> 
> However I'm crap and I've really got some problems. Firstly, the strategy I want to use (2 Starport Carrier) is widely accused of being crappy and its a build I'm designing myself. Furthermore, whenever I play (with whatever strategy) , because I remember Day9 saying "probes and pylons, probes and pylons, probes and pylons" I build mass probes and end up with a huge mineral count. Keeping gas low is no problem but the minerals skyrocket. Feels bad knowing that my Macro is slipping constantly. I think I need to build more zealots.
> 
> How many Warp Gates do you need to keep a fully saturated mineral field low on minerals & gas? Talking stalker zealot here, haven't got the APM yet to fully utilize sentries.
> 
> Thanks in advanced. Thought I'll just throw it out there!


If I get a lot of minerals, I go for a lot of gateways/rax and built a lot of zealots/marines/slings and do an attack or use them to defend. As for how much you can have on a single base, 4-5 structures is the max usually because you can't sustain more.


----------



## pale

SC2 is offline till 3am CET. Orange (my mobile network provider) is offline till 11am and my bank is offline till 8am!

On my way to being PLAT (heres hoping)

Life gets tee'jus dont it! (without my most PRECIOUS links!)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silentness;14358570*
> Unless you are some gosu Korean player that has enough APM to micro manage his tanks to focus fire lings/banelings instead of splashing your own ghosts due to broodlings and can snipe broodlords at the same time.
> 
> >,<
> 
> Oh yeah and doesn't Morrow play TvZ now instead of ZvZ?


Morrow started playing tvz since he got roflstomped by Nerchio 4:0







. Personally I think he should stop showing us his low-master terran and practise his zvz


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah his ZvZ is better than his Terran now by far. He actually could have beat July ZvZ at NASL but instead he just got out classed with his Terran. On state of the game the week before they were all like "WHY!!?!?!?".


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah his ZvZ is better than his Terran now by far. He actually could have beat July ZvZ at NASL but instead he just got out classed with his Terran. On state of the game the week before they were all like "WHY!!?!?!?".


That and a large number of events wont let you race switch for specific matchups anyway.

With regards to the whole infesters OP thing, I'd say right now they feel really strong because they are just starting to be used effectively and people still haven't worked out how best to deal with them, your already seeing top terrans deals with them brilliantly using marine splits snipes and just well placed tank shots.

I suspect that infesters like colosi just need to be worked out and they will cease to be op, often nerfs and buffs are not the answer just letting the game play out will lead to balance. I would say the same was true for ghosts in Tvp though now i think most toss have worked out how to deal with them.

that said i feel the infester has not yet close to reached its full potential in games, Seals duel burrowed infester ambush was one of the most beautiful moments I've ever seen in a tvz


----------



## DoomDash

I think once it gets figured out it will be MORE powerful than people realized, eps when Z's use queens with BL infestor. Seriously each snipe will do nothing hah. Infestors are really dumb in general, a unit that prevents micro and has an easy to cast undodgable spell that doesn't even make sense ( goup falling from the air )? Bad for SC. Infestors are the most well rounded unit.


----------



## Vuashke

/suicide


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah his ZvZ is better than his Terran now by far. He actually could have beat July ZvZ at NASL but instead he just got out classed with his Terran. On state of the game the week before they were all like "WHY!!?!?!?".


Morrow is kinda washed up... I'd rate the likes of Stephano above him


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think once it gets figured out it will be MORE powerful than people realized, eps when Z's use queens with BL infestor. Seriously each snipe will do nothing hah. Infestors are really dumb in general, a unit that prevents micro and has an easy to cast undodgable spell that doesn't even make sense ( goup falling from the air )? Bad for SC. Infestors are the most well rounded unit.


Marines would like to have a word with You









I only use infestors for zvz and tvz(mutaling infestor) and dont use infestor heavy builds so I'd prefer to use hydras more against t and z, if they weren't competing with overlords for speed and helions for health







. Their dps/resources is barely 15% over roach and they cost a lotta gas.

I dun care about infestors not hitting air, but buff hydras and corrupters


----------



## Shozzking

Does anyone know how hard it is to go from bronze to silver or gold? I was doing my placement match for the new season in 1v1s and the other player backed out after 43 seconds which left me at 1000 score and bronze league. Right now I'm at #3 in my division and I really want to get into silver at least.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shozzking*


Does anyone know how hard it is to go from bronze to silver or gold? I was doing my placement match for the new season in 1v1s and the other player backed out after 43 seconds which left me at 1000 score and bronze league. Right now I'm at #3 in my division and I really want to get into silver at least.


No one knows, cause mmr is hidden. Just win a lot against favoured opponents


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Marines would like to have a word with You










Infestors can shoot marines out with energy lol.

I would trade a hydra buff for a infestor nerf. FG not hitting air would be nice, make hydras better in return.


----------



## Sangers_low

When will gsl chang their bloody awful k-pop playlist... This is srsly giving me nausea


----------



## Vuashke

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


When will gsl chang their bloody awful k-pop playlist... This is srsly giving me nausea


stacraft and kpop are inextricably linked

sad but true


----------



## DoomDash

I like some k-pop because of SC, but most of it sucks.


----------



## Vuashke

i tried my very best to like kpop, but in all honesty i cant. its just horrible


----------



## DoomDash

The hot Korean girls are the gateway drug.


----------



## Vuashke

never been a fan

in other semi-related news, mbcgame (one of the big bw broadcasting stations) is turning into a music playing station


----------



## DoomDash

I heard the station that plays kespa bw is going to do SCII soon.


----------



## Vuashke

theres two stations, ogn and mbc. mbc's bw broadcasting station is being switched into a gaypop music station


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think once it gets figured out it will be MORE powerful than people realized, eps when Z's use queens with BL infestor. Seriously each snipe will do nothing hah. Infestors are really dumb in general, a unit that prevents micro and has an easy to cast undodgable spell that doesn't even make sense ( goup falling from the air )? Bad for SC. Infestors are the most well rounded unit.


I disagree, the infester is expensive, relatively slow and incredibly squishy, they are a great unit and the way they are being used now is i think far from thier potential but that doesn't mean they are broken or overpowered it just means that people haven't worked out a good way to counter them.

Its very easy to point at games where someone landed some sick FG and turned the tide of a battle and say thats OP while completely ignoring any number of games where thanks to good splits well timed snipe/emp etc that infesters did literally nothing turning the tide the other way.

Broods are like all the other capital ships, 90+% of times they are used they are a finishing blow they come out when the game has already been won just like bringing out battle cruisers you can only get away with it if you are already far ahead if you do it too early the cost of doing it will cripple you and you will loose, according to liquipedia since January teching to brood lord has significantly affected the outcome of only 5 GSL games 3 where it led to wins and 2 where it led to looses.


----------



## DoomDash

It will only get worse, and maybe BL infestor would be more managable if it wasn't 10x easier to use BL + Infestor rather than to beat it. I've been playing this MU trying to beat it vs Fishbulb hundreds of times and even he feels guilty for using it. Is it beatable? Yes of course, still wayyy too good on Z side. Trust me when I say this is just the beginning, even pros and Blizzard says its probably broken, and thats with out queens!!

Lucky for me I am 99% sure it will be nerfed, not sure when, but it will be. If you don't see it happening you're in denial or just haven't experienced it enough yet. Z already had the advantage late game, now its just stupid.


----------



## DoomDash

Also, *HAPPY BIRTHDAY SCII, you're one year old!!!!*!!!!!


----------



## Sangers_low

Maybe their multitasking's not as good, but IMO, NA terrans should adopt kr t's aggressive style. My KR account's tvz ratio's like 2-30% lol







Drop play is just too good, especially in the ladder and it's harder for the defender than the aggressor.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lucky for me I am 99% sure it will be nerfed, not sure when, but it will be. If you don't see it happening you're in denial or just haven't experienced it enough yet. Z already had the advantage late game, now its just stupid.


Honestly when i look at balance I try to ignore my personal experience at the end of the day im a mid level diamond random playing in Europe my personal experience has jack all to do with balance, and lets face it even your masters level play in the USA is in terms of being able to look at balance fairly useless. From what I've watched of pro level play (which is a boat load thanks to being able to watch vods at work) I would say that infesters seem to be mildly too strong right now but I have also seen good infester play be shut down completely.

As for brood-lords I can think of very very few games where broods changed the already obvious outcome of the game, if your opponent got broods out and you lost that isn't because broods are too strong its because you let him get broods out and didn't punish him. complaining about it is like moaning when someone super fast expands and you dont punish him and he rolls you later in the game.

By the time broods come out you've already won or lost the game, either you were successful in harassing the zerg denying him expos and keeping control of the map or you were not and you've lost because zerg has become an unstoppable killing machine that can constantly remax as often and as quickly as he wants. I dont think that is really a significant balance issue just a timing to be aware of.


----------



## DoomDash

Obviously I am no korean gosu Terran, but even the Koreans have been struggling lately. There is a 26 page thread on battle.net that that reached its post limit on this topic, I still feel even though I am not elite that there is some pretty obvious problems with them. Destiny beating Bomber, come on.

and drop play is good, but against a Z its always a gamble once muta's are out. Artosis and Tasteless constantly say that you shouldn't even try dropping after muta are out ( even if I disagree ).


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Obviously I am no korean gosu Terran, but even the Koreans have been struggling lately. There is a 26 page thread on battle.net that that reached its post limit on this topic, I still feel even though I am not elite that there is some pretty obvious problems with them. Destiny beating Bomber, come on.

and drop play is good, but against a Z its always a gamble once muta's are out. Artosis and Tasteless constantly say that you shouldn't even try dropping after muta are out ( even if I disagree ).


Bomber had no idea who destiny was and his tvz is pretty bad. I dislike destiny, tho, his popularity is a proof of whats wrong with america









Try dropping when mutas are harassing or ur attacking and etc. Srsly messes zergs' play, unless ur drg







Many good tvzers are aggressive.


----------



## DoomDash

I think that style is luck based, or Zerg mistake wins, but that's just me.


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm happy for SC 2 being 1 year old, I'm still suck at it, I can beat the CPU on very hard mid sliver level in plat FAIL!

I can't mutitask well, that's why I use toss hella OP


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Also, *HAPPY BIRTHDAY SCII, you're one year old!!!!*!!!!!


Damn, is it really? I just got around to finishing it a couple days ago.


----------



## QuadDamage

I beat it on brutal OP


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Infestors can shoot marines out with energy lol.

I would trade a hydra buff for a infestor nerf. FG not hitting air would be nice, make hydras better in return.


Agree but either way, I get the buff/nerf to the specific race since I'm random









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Obviously I am no korean gosu Terran, but even the Koreans have been struggling lately. There is a 26 page thread on battle.net that that reached its post limit on this topic, I still feel even though I am not elite that there is some pretty obvious problems with them. Destiny beating Bomber, come on.

and drop play is good, but against a Z its always a gamble once muta's are out. Artosis and Tasteless constantly say that you shouldn't even try dropping after muta are out ( even if I disagree ).


Agree, I avoid drops whenever mutas are out because they can retreat to the base really fast so its almost like he lost nothing(couple of drones but that's nothing when you consider # of hatcheries/larvae).


----------



## DoomDash

I've been grinding for my BC icon







.

51 games 1v1 this season already.

60 wins to go!


----------



## yks

28 games today, T_T

16 yesterday.

I love new seasons.

44 games total, T_T


----------



## BigFan

You guys are NUTS!!!!!


----------



## Sauce Boss

I gave up on s3. I should be in gold but got placed in Bronze. Friggin DTs... I'm terran. I feel like I should stop playing







I'm not sure if its worth it because my strategy and APM is plateauing. I don't have time to watch 2 hour videos. I feel like I'm missing something.


----------



## ntherblast

Finally beat all missions on brutal got everything except raid night achievement. lost viking gold was kind of annoying took me 3 tries. Time to start league games soon my biggest problem is i'm a huge clicker i usually hotkey command center as 5 buildings as 4 1-3 units 6+ building upgrades but I keep finding myself clicking with the mouse and just staring at my base:S any tips? i'm plat in 1v1 if it matters


----------



## Shozzking

So far I've been rolling absolutely everyone this season except for zerg. I've played 4 games as terran against zerg this season and I've lost 3 of them. Would someone be able to play a game or 2 with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=248591


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14365735*
> I think that style is luck based, or Zerg mistake wins, but that's just me.


The entire point is to force Z into making more mistakes than you. from what ive seen most z over or undermake units to defends both are deadly
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14365430*
> Obviously I am no korean gosu Terran, but even the Koreans have been struggling lately. There is a 26 page thread on battle.net that that reached its post limit on this topic, I still feel even though I am not elite that there is some pretty obvious problems with them. Destiny beating Bomber, come on.
> 
> and drop play is good, but against a Z its always a gamble once muta's are out. Artosis and Tasteless constantly say that you shouldn't even try dropping after muta are out ( even if I disagree ).


Being able to find maxed out threads of people QQ'ing about racial balance is like going to a beach and finding sand.

I certainly dont disagree that they seem overly strong right now, but I personally feel that is due to people not finding an effective response yet I think given a little more time it will fix itself.

Destiny vs bomber was an upset but destiny had the latency advantage (which is huge at pro level of play i'd say anything more than 40ms difference easily nullifies the match as any measure of a players skill as half your micro just plain wont work) and those were some pretty crazy games I wouldn't expect bomber or any other top terran to loose again to someone building 30+ infesters at a time








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14370467*
> Agree, I avoid drops whenever mutas are out because they can retreat to the base really fast so its almost like he lost nothing(couple of drones but that's nothing when you consider # of hatcheries/larvae).


Depends often forcing the muta ball back home is enough to make the drop worth while even if all you get is a few workers. But drops are not the only form of harrass, even just setting up a soft contain or constantly pressuring the front can seriously cripple zerg into the later game as he is forced to build army when he wants to build workers. Forcing zerg to be in his base rather than out on the map certainly pays dividends. Z need to be out on the map mobile and expanding or they will loose.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14376033*
> So far I've been rolling absolutely everyone this season except for zerg. I've played 4 games as terran against zerg this season and I've lost 3 of them. Would someone be able to play a game or 2 with me and point out what I'm doing wrong?


Post up a replay or two should be able to see from that much easier than playing vs you.


----------



## DoomDash

Even when I discuss TvZ on ladder with Zergs they think its much harder for Terran in straight up games. Most of them suggest I do some sort of cheesy all in or random one base play to beat Zergs because generally that's how they lose. I try my best to play well with out the cheese, its just hard. Though TvZ is actually close to even right now, but I really blame that on not enough Zergs playing like Destiny. I lose to people with MUCH lower mmr than me when they play like that.


----------



## DoomDash

Will DoomDash hit 1:1 ratio against Zerg for the first time in his SC2 career? Will he ever practice Terran vs Terran or continue to avoid it? Did the Archon change really screw over his TvP? Stay tuned to find out!


----------



## Tchernobyl

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4NsiMGWgGU[/ame]

starcraft comedic stage act


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14377695*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will DoomDash hit 1:1 ratio against Zerg for the first time in his SC2 career? Will he ever practice Terran vs Terran or continue to avoid it? Did the Archon change really screw over his TvP? Stay tuned to find out!


Would you mind posting a few TvP replays where you lost? Recently it has became my worst matchup and I'm not really sure why.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14378999*
> Would you mind posting a few TvP replays where you lost? Recently it has became my worst matchup and I'm not really sure why.


Dude! I'm feeling you bro! That's what I said to jediwin last night.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14377695*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will DoomDash hit 1:1 ratio against Zerg for the first time in his SC2 career? Will he ever practice Terran vs Terran or continue to avoid it? Did the Archon change really screw over his TvP? Stay tuned to find out!


Im only about 50 amp. How do you get so high?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14379113*
> Dude! I'm feeling you bro! That's what I said to jediwin last night.


Its true. Friggin' DTs are why I'm Bronze now.


----------



## yks

^ I think you misinterpreted. I lose as protoss to terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Would you mind posting a few TvP replays where you lost? Recently it has became my worst matchup and I'm not really sure why.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Dude! I'm feeling you bro! That's what I said to jediwin last night.


1 win 2 losses in this pack.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mvocs1z1jzattla

Here is how I generally lose to Protoss ( I play thorzain 2-2 style ):

Protoss opens up fast expand to DT / Archon w/ eventual double forge. Protoss keeps up on upgrades, uses the super mega awesome efficiency combo that is Zealot/Archon/Templar. It is VERY hard to kill a Protoss with such an affordable comp. I either lose to miss steps in micro, and or because I didn't EMP first or get all the templars / sentries ( 100 energy means it's hard to guarantee EMP nullifying ). If you miss a few you might have a chance, if you miss a bunch you auto lose. If the Protoss cannot finish you off easily with this comp, eventually since you prepare every single cent or your gas to beat archon/zealot/templar, Protoss can then tech switch into 3-3 Colossus with his current comp, and generally Terran is too broke to be able to afford all the units needed to counter that. At least that's how I lose.

Any other loss is from bs protoss gimmick or all in, but imo protoss has never seen better days vs Terran, this is the time you should be doing BEST.


----------



## CravinR1

My weakest match last season was PvZ, this season seems to be PvP

I think working on tactics to beat Z and T I forgot how useful zealots are in PvP.

In PvT I get 4-6 sentries then get stalkers to templars/colossus mid/late game i'll get a few charge lots for hand to hand the marauders. FF placement is VERY important

In PvZ I get a zealot, couple sentries, then based on number of lings stalkers/zealots/sentries. Sentries are important to prevent surrounds early game. If I don't do that I get a forge fast expo (depending on map and natural position)

All that being said I'm only high silver so not remotely good


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


I gave up on s3. I should be in gold but got placed in Bronze.* Friggin DTs*... I'm terran. I feel like I should stop playing







I'm not sure if its worth it because my strategy and APM is plateauing. I don't have time to watch 2 hour videos. I feel like I'm missing something.


Add a raven and use pdd(incase you fear stalkers shouting it down). Get some scans ready, have a turret near the entrance and around base incase of a dt drop/wrap in. Scout the protoss and if you find dark shrine, prepare for dts(save scans, ravens, build turrets near army, etc...). Really, dts aren't bad to deal with at all. It's the times when you don't have an engineering bay or no turrets which are most devastating but you always need an engineering bay for upgrades anyways









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Depends often forcing the muta ball back home is enough to make the drop worth while even if all you get is a few workers. But drops are not the only form of harrass, even just setting up a soft contain or constantly pressuring the front can seriously cripple zerg into the later game as he is forced to build army when he wants to build workers. Forcing zerg to be in his base rather than out on the map certainly pays dividends. Z need to be out on the map mobile and expanding or they will loose.


I've been trying to focus my TvsZ around multiple drops at once because I think the matchup is heading in that general direction. Taking out their drones or maybe a pool, etc... with a drop is worth it IMO but once mutas are out, you might be able to take out a couple of drones but they'll clean up the drop easily with the amount of units lost in the favour of the Z since the drones can just be pulled.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4NsiMGWgGU

starcraft comedic stage act










Hey!!!!! Thinking of playing SCII again?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Im only about 50 amp. How do you get so high?

Its true. Friggin' DTs are why I'm Bronze now.


DTs are great for a surprise but most Ts in Gold have some turret in their mineral field or base so its a risky strat in the sense that you have to dump resources into the shrine then into dts. The good thing is that you can make archons then so that their is a purpose for the shrine









As for APM, well with practice, your APM will increase. I avg around 90 with Z, 75 with T/P. Not as high as doom but meh









EDIT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=248383
ICCUP maps released, they look pretty awesome especially Katrina!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14383527*
> 1 win 2 losses in this pack.
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/?mvocs1z1jzattla
> 
> Here is how I generally lose to Protoss ( I play thorzain 2-2 style ):
> 
> Protoss opens up fast expand to DT / Archon w/ eventual double forge. Protoss keeps up on upgrades, uses the super mega awesome efficiency combo that is Zealot/Archon/Templar. It is VERY hard to kill a Protoss with such an affordable comp. I either lose to miss steps in micro, and or because I didn't EMP first or get all the templars / sentries ( 100 energy means it's hard to guarantee EMP nullifying ). If you miss a few you might have a chance, if you miss a bunch you auto lose. If the Protoss cannot finish you off easily with this comp, eventually since you prepare every single cent or your gas to beat archon/zealot/templar, Protoss can then tech switch into 3-3 Colossus with his current comp, and generally Terran is too broke to be able to afford all the units needed to counter that. At least that's how I lose.
> 
> Any other loss is from bs protoss gimmick or all in, but imo protoss has never seen better days vs Terran, this is the time you should be doing BEST.


I used to open Thorzain heavy upgrade style but the problem with that build is that it's all innish and you cant do any economic damage until 2/2 is done.

You should give opening factory first (select/qxc style) a shot. The benefits of opening factory first is that you can do economic damage much faster than double ebay/ebay first style and you don't need to blow a scan to see what the toss is up to as you can rally a marine around his base when you drop and see his army. You also get a higher medivac count early on which is crucial and from there based on what you scout you can go double port for vikings or ghost academy if you scout templar.

Plus any toss double forge/twilight builds can be shut down with fast drop play. I've won quite a few games because toss got greedy with their tech and I just sniped their forges and 1ed when my upgrades finished.

EDIT: If I suspect DT's I normally wall off my ramp that way I can auto repair and save a scan + get an ebay out in time before they do any economic damage.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Can I PM a good terran player one of my replays to examine it? I'm not sure how to put it on the internet. I basically had half of his army and then some how i came back and blew him our of the map...
not sure how.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't feel my build is all in at all, it's really good, and I do drops before 2-2 is anywhere near done.

Now 13-0 in geforce tournament.


----------



## Tchernobyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14385883*
> Add a raven and use pdd(incase you fear stalkers shouting it down). Get some scans ready, have a turret near the entrance and around base incase of a dt drop/wrap in. Scout the protoss and if you find dark shrine, prepare for dts(save scans, ravens, build turrets near army, etc...). Really, dts aren't bad to deal with at all. It's the times when you don't have an engineering bay or no turrets which are most devastating but you always need an engineering bay for upgrades anyways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been trying to focus my TvsZ around multiple drops at once because I think the matchup is heading in that general direction. Taking out their drones or maybe a pool, etc... with a drop is worth it IMO but once mutas are out, you might be able to take out a couple of drones but they'll clean up the drop easily with the amount of units lost in the favour of the Z since the drones can just be pulled.
> 
> Hey!!!!! Thinking of playing SCII again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DTs are great for a surprise but most Ts in Gold have some turret in their mineral field or base so its a risky strat in the sense that you have to dump resources into the shrine then into dts. The good thing is that you can make archons then so that their is a purpose for the shrine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for APM, well with practice, your APM will increase. I avg around 90 with Z, 75 with T/P. Not as high as doom but meh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=248383
> ICCUP maps released, they look pretty awesome especially Katrina!


Not really no







until Heart of the swarm comes out ;D


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14386377*
> Can I PM a good terran player one of my replays to examine it? I'm not sure how to put it on the internet. I basically had half of his army and then some how i came back and blew him our of the map...
> not sure how.


You can upload replays to gamereplays.org and then post the url they give you on here so that we can dl it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl;14386656*
> Not really no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> until Heart of the swarm comes out ;D


Ah come on! BOOOOOO XD


----------



## Sauce Boss

I'm wTENnONE btw,

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=223615


----------



## Shozzking

I finally won against a zerg player. A bunch of marines and marauders with a couple of tanks seemed to work well. Can you guys look over the replay and tell me what I need to fix? I'm really hoping to get out of bronze soon and zerg is the only race that I'm having problems with.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14387154*
> I finally won against a zerg player. A bunch of marines and marauders with a couple of tanks seemed to work well. Can you guys look over the replay and tell me what I need to fix? I'm really hoping to get out of bronze soon and zerg is the only race that I'm having problems with.


From a Bronze Terran player (lol) I can recommend Blue Flame hellions. They fire in straight lines so if there are maybe 4 zerglings lined up in a row a blue flame hellion could take em all on in one shot. BFH drops are pretty intense too.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14387154*
> I finally won against a zerg player. A bunch of marines and marauders with a couple of tanks seemed to work well. Can you guys look over the replay and tell me what I need to fix? I'm really hoping to get out of bronze soon and zerg is the only race that I'm having problems with.


From me as a bronze zerg:

Gotta scout against Zerg. Can't let them fast expand. Put one or two marines at each expansion just so you know when he goes to get them. Get some medivacs, and don't forget to move your tanks up to keep him contained. You can put a bunch of tanks outside his base and then scan or get some air units to harass cremate some of his forces from afar.

Also, definitely get stim packs and kite. When he throws zerglings at you, try to get your marines back against a wall so he can't get a surround off on you until you get your micro good enough to be able to kite effectively.

And when you have tanks hitting from far away, don't let zerglings close to you, as your tanks will own your marines with their AoE.

Just scout a lot and make sure you get counters up in time. Mass marines/marauders/medivacs with some tanks will take out most things a zerg can throw at you until late game. Keep a raven or something around and be careful for buried banelings.

Drops are also very effective if he doesn't have any defenses around his mineral line.


----------



## Shozzking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14387758*
> From me as a bronze zerg:
> 
> Gotta scout against Zerg. Can't let them fast expand. Put one or two marines at each expansion just so you know when he goes to get them. Get some medivacs, and don't forget to move your tanks up to keep him contained. You can put a bunch of tanks outside his base and then scan or get some air units to harass cremate some of his forces from afar.
> 
> Also, definitely get stim packs and kite. When he throws zerglings at you, try to get your marines back against a wall so he can't get a surround off on you until you get your micro good enough to be able to kite effectively.
> 
> And when you have tanks hitting from far away, don't let zerglings close to you, as your tanks will own your marines with their AoE.
> 
> Just scout a lot and make sure you get counters up in time. Mass marines/marauders/medivacs with some tanks will take out most things a zerg can throw at you until late game. Keep a raven or something around and be careful for buried banelings.
> 
> Drops are also very effective if he doesn't have any defenses around his mineral line.


What do you mean when you say kite? Also, is there any use for reapers in mid or late game? I mainly use them in early game and then forget about them.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14387777*
> What do you mean when you say kite? Also, is there any use for reapers in mid or late game? I mainly use them in early game and then forget about them.


Kite like shoot, run, shoot run, instead of standing still and letting your marines get hit.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wlUJ2pUHtc[/ame]

And I don't see reapers used for anything except base harass. Could be useful alte game too, but usually used early game.


----------



## Shozzking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14388483*
> Kite like shoot, run, shoot run, instead of standing still and letting your marines get hit.
> 
> And I don't see reapers used for anything except base harass. Could be useful alte game too, but usually used early game.


Ahh, I never knew what that trick was called.

It seems like banshees are really powerful against zerg (in bronze at least). Most of the time they stick to basic ground units (blings, zlings and roaches) and neglect to build any form of AA except for queens. The last guy that I used it on called it cheating, started spamming the chat, spamming down hatch's to extend the game and calling for a rematch. I hate bronze soooo much.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14388664*
> Ahh, I never knew what that trick was called.
> 
> It seems like banshees are really powerful against zerg (in bronze at least). Most of the time they stick to basic ground units (blings, zlings and roaches) and neglect to build any form of AA except for queens. The last guy that I used it on called it cheating, started spamming the chat, spamming down hatch's to extend the game and calling for a rematch. I hate bronze soooo much.


Banshees are pretty strong units, and zerg is the hardest to AA with (T has marines, P has Stalkers, both of which are a main staple in most any army, whereas Z tends to go roaches mainly as they're so strong).

I wish my bronze opponents were that bad though. I was gold toss, season 3 happened and I switched to Zerg, was rank 7 silver then I lost one, went to bronze, and lost 9 in a row. I was sad.


----------



## Shozzking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14388864*
> Banshees are pretty strong units, and zerg is the hardest to AA with (T has marines, P has Stalkers, both of which are a main staple in most any army, whereas Z tends to go roaches mainly as they're so strong).
> 
> I wish my bronze opponents were that bad though. I was gold toss, season 3 happened and I switched to Zerg, was rank 7 silver then I lost one, went to bronze, and lost 9 in a row. I was sad.


haha, some of the people in bronze are pretty decent but most are terrible. I get scouted most games yet I always manage to pull off a decent reaper rush. The best part is when you play against a zerg player who doesnt realize how important their queen is and use it solely to spread creep.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking;14388916*
> haha, some of the people in bronze are pretty decent but most are terrible. I get scouted most games yet I always manage to pull off a decent reaper rush. The best part is when you play against a zerg player who doesnt realize how important their queen is and use it solely to spread creep.


I haven't played against any terrible bronze players yet :c Seems like I'm against nothing but silver players most of the time.

And lol, I'm really bad as Zerg, I always have trouble remembering to spread creep, and end up just using my queens to get more larva and sometimes as AA units until I can get Hydras or Mutas up.

I'm platinum in 2v2 though. My friend goes toss, I go Zerg, and I just build speedlings to use as meatshields/surround, and give him all my resources and he gets a huge blink stalker army up by like 10 minutes. Fun stuff.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14388864*
> Banshees are pretty strong units, and zerg is the hardest to AA with (T has marines, P has Stalkers, both of which are a main staple in most any army, whereas Z tends to go roaches mainly as they're so strong).
> 
> I wish my bronze opponents were that bad though. I was gold toss, season 3 happened and I switched to Zerg, was rank 7 silver then I lost one, went to bronze, and lost 9 in a row. I was sad.


Suppose you should watch out for Bronze portrait farmers too. If you watch any SC matches, I swear things just start to click for you in the middle of games. Watched Select play and he has great stutter step micro; went to play a TvZ later that day and my stutter-step was perfect. I kitted those lings all day.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Suppose you should watch out for Bronze portrait farmers too. If you watch any SC matches, I swear things just start to click for you in the middle of games. Watched Select play and he has great stutter step micro; went to play a TvZ later that day and my stutter-step was perfect. I kitted those lings all day.


Everyone should be doing stutter. Most easy micro AND very effective as well.









Quote:



DTs are great for a surprise but most Ts in Gold have some turret in their mineral field or base so its a risky strat in the sense that you have to dump resources into the shrine then into dts. The good thing is that you can make archons then so that their is a purpose for the shrine

As for APM, well with practice, your APM will increase. I avg around 90 with Z, 75 with T/P. Not as high as doom but meh


Yeah I'd think zerg requires more apm. Doom and I'm probably not too far apart in mmr, but my avg apm's like 170-210 ish. That's like average for zergs in high masters and gms.

Quote:



Banshees are pretty strong units, and zerg is the hardest to AA with (T has marines, P has Stalkers, both of which are a main staple in most any army, whereas Z tends to go roaches mainly as they're so strong).


I can't really comment about bronze league tvz games, but I don't think zerg would go roach heavy in tvz, so bf helions or 2 port banshee would do well.

Quote:



I wish my bronze opponents were that bad though. I was gold toss, season 3 happened and I switched to Zerg, was rank 7 silver then I lost one, went to bronze, and lost 9 in a row. I was sad.


I actually never got demoted







, but play some custom games instead of spamming ladder queue when ur in a losing streak.


----------



## stren

Going to be watching the mlg stream today, had some questions for you peeps:

Seems it's on g4tv for free, MLG seem to have it if you pay but you get no ads and HQ
- I'm going on sunday anyway, so I dont particularly want to pay
- What's the best quality free stream to watch? Is it g4tv?
- What is the quality of the free stream? 
- Does HQ for the MLG stream mean 1080p?
- Where do you go for the MLG stream if I do decide to pay I don't see any links up yet?
- How does the stream handle the event, are you seeing the commentator's screen and hearing them too?


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14390460*
> I can't really comment about bronze league tvz games, but I don't think zerg would go roach heavy in tvz, so bf helions or 2 port banshee would do well.


I've been having great success with 2 port banshee in gold, so much so that it feels like cheese. Most people just don't scout or react quickly enough when they do see them. I haven't even had to particularly hide them. Because of it's success I haven't had so much of an opportunity to learn how to transition out of it. I'm guessing I'd reuse the tech labs on factories if I go mech or marine/tank or on rax if I'm going mmm.


----------



## DoomDash

MLG today guys!!

I am trying mech TvT jediwin but I suck at it so far... don't know how and when to add stuff, even poor spending.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14390795*
> MLG today guys!!
> 
> I am trying mech TvT jediwin but I suck at it so far... don't know how and when to add stuff, even poor spending.


Hurray for DRG!!! The man whos gonna own all the nerd faces









Are you saying ur bad with mech or bad against mech..?


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


MLG today guys!!

I am trying mech TvT jediwin but I suck at it so far... don't know how and when to add stuff, even poor spending.


So what time does it start EST?


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14391196*
> So what time does it start EST?


Pregame show at 5.10pm pst, pool play starts at 5.30 pst, so 8.30est

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/714926/mlg-anaheim-live-stream-on-g4tvcom-july-29-31-full-tournament-schedule-and-details/


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stren*


Pregame show at 5.10pm pst, pool play starts at 5.30 pst, so 8.30est

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...e-and-details/


When does the REAL game start?


----------



## stren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


When does the REAL game start?


What do you count as a *real* game?


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stren*


What do you count as a *real* game?


Well the Pool Play is pregame right?


----------



## yks

no. pool play is group stage.


----------



## DoomDash

Both atm, but not many are meching on the ladder yet.


----------



## DoomDash

OK I'm sure many of you have seen the pause the game and type "has left the game" trick, that almost no one would fall for. This guy I played last did the same thing except he took one more step and he made it look VERY convincing that he actually did leave the game. All of his units were on stop / hold position, nothing was producing, it was really good LOL. I did not fall for it but I can see why some would I guess.


----------



## Idra

Good luck at MLG.


----------



## Sangers_low

Gah I think I'm too hyped







Can't sleep at all even tho it's bloody 3 am


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Idra*


Good luck at MLG.


LOL ur name is Idra


----------



## QuadDamage

Got some good games last night with Gildy, made me feel better about my plat play

I might start to ladder more!


----------



## CravinR1

Just played a gold terran

........ charged lots are surprisingly good vs Thors


----------



## stren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


OK I'm sure many of you have seen the pause the game and type "has left the game" trick, that almost no one would fall for. This guy I played last did the same thing except he took one more step and he made it look VERY convincing that he actually did leave the game. All of his units were on stop / hold position, nothing was producing, it was really good LOL. I did not fall for it but I can see why some would I guess.




Wow, people do that? How lame!


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stren*


Wow, people do that? How lame!



i would of BM'ed him with the CC in his base lol

What a dick!


----------



## QuadDamage

https://www.wuala.com/quadman2k/Apps...play/?key=apps

2 rax bunker rush me random plat vs diamond so Sloppy! still pull it off

Bunker rush 2 rax is strong vs zerg who open early expo, my apm is like 20 to 40 so sad


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Just played a gold terran

........ charged lots are surprisingly good vs Thors


Yep, chargelots+immortals demolish Terran mech play for the most part(not including hellions







).


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Yep, chargelots+immortals demolish Terran mech play for the most part(not including hellions







).


I had forge expanded then had 6-8 gates. Well when I pushed I only had 2 zealots, a few stalkers + sentries (was expecting marine/rauder) but he had teched straight to thors (knew he was going mech cause my probe scouts only saw a couple marines)

So I started warping in charged lots to face his 2 thors with a stalker here and there and pushed him back and took his expo

I made 2 robos at my base and had immortals waiting in case I couldn't break his front.

Today on the ladder I lost to the same terran twice
First I forge fast expo'd and he sent reapers in and won that way

Second game (back to back on ladder) I forged and made a canon but then 4 gates and he still won. Rines + rauders + siege


----------



## QuadDamage

can someone post a duel stream for MLG both streams on the same page?


----------



## QuadDamage

MLG 2x STREAMS PLEASE!


----------



## QuadDamage

HERE IS BOTH STREAMS!

http://wellplayed.org/tv#!mlgblue/mlgred

If someone has a hacked HD Stream PLEASE PM ME


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14397824*
> MLG 2x STREAMS PLEASE!


Just google MLG lol...

Huk 2 : 0 Naniwa
DRG 2 : 0 TLO


----------



## DoomDash

Boxerrr!!!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14398379*
> Boxerrr!!!


Change ur avatar back to the old one


----------



## ZainyAntics

Boxer KO Idra 2:0

Idra had an INSAAAAANE defense in game 2, but didn't back it up with any units. Lings+mutas are so volatile.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14398493*
> Change ur avatar back to the old one


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14398535*


Hahaha I have both streams on with 2 screens









Drewbie must've studied hard. He started with a better BO for all of his games vs MMA. Still, MMA's too good


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14398625*
> Hahaha I have both streams on with 2 screens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drewbie must've studied hard. He started with a better BO for all of his games vs MMA. Still, MMA's too good


True, true.

Is it just me or are the streams messed up? It's showing Don against Nani now but I thought it was supposed to be like 3-4 hours back. Guessing its the time zone difference if there is some


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14398749*
> True, true.
> 
> Is it just me or are the streams messed up? It's showing Don against Nani now but I thought it was supposed to be like 3-4 hours back. Guessing its the time zone difference if there is some


LOL tbh, ALL american tourneys atm are kinda unreliable







. Man that thing drg did in metalopolis is actually what i do all the time in the ladder







shame metal's gone tho


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14398761*
> LOL tbh, ALL american tourneys atm are kinda unreliable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Man that thing drg did in metalopolis is actually what i do all the time in the ladder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shame metal's gone tho


hehe, it did the same thing last time









Anyone up for a game in a bit?


----------



## Sangers_low

Man... I know it's kinda early in the tournament... but I'm LOLing at the people in tl who were saying Naniwa's gonna beat DRG, idra > boxer and mvp being mediocre


----------



## Sangers_low

LOL Slush O_O. Imo, Any zerg that goes against MMA should go muta cause of his drop play


----------



## Sangers_low

Wow Slush got raped hard . I thought he was supposed to be a top tier NA zerg


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399013*
> Man... I know it's kinda early in the tournament... but I'm LOLing at the people in tl who were saying Naniwa's gonna beat DRG, idra > boxer and mvp being mediocre


well, to be fair, I think idra = boxer IMO and MVP is pretty good, not sure about DRG though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399260*
> Wow Slush got raped hard . I thought he was supposed to be a top tier NA zerg


hmm, well to be fair, MMA's aggressive style is that good







Having said that, maybe a fast roach warren is the key? I mean slings get roasted by the hellions/marines so a fast roach warren(right after pool is finished) will at least make it possible to get some roaches to defend any of that pressure, that or maybe more crawlers since he'll be forced to get tanks then but I dunno









Thinking of switching to Terran this season to strength my Tvs* games but I'm worried about the likely chance of getting demoted down to silver, maybe even bronze XD I think it would be nice to be forced to do more micro, get a lot more TvsZ and I don't find TvsT that bad. TvsP is a soso in my book though







What do you guys think?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14399305*
> well, to be fair, I think idra = boxer IMO


Blasphemy and Lies
Quote:


> and MVP is pretty good,


Many say he's overrated in tl and also the moronic predictor placed him for third place in group stages i think.
Quote:


> not sure about DRG though


You don't watch GSTL do u? He has like 92% win rate in gstl
Quote:


> hmm, well to be fair, MMA's aggressive style is that good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having said that, maybe a fast roach warren is the key? I mean slings get roasted by the hellions/marines so a fast roach warren(right after pool is finished) will at least make it possible to get some roaches to defend any of that pressure, that or maybe more crawlers since he'll be forced to get tanks then but I dunno


Even if Slush survives the early game pressure, do u really think he'll manage to win against MMA?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399535*
> Blasphemy and Lies


ya ya







Let's put it this way: Watching Boxer against MC in Dreamhack or whatever the tourney was, I thought his micro was horrible. Having said that, he's obviously one of the better players, but, that game was just bad IMO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399535*
> Many say he's overrated in tl and also the moronic predictor placed him for third place in group stages i think.


hmm, I haven't seen MVP in action tbh, so, I can't say much.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399535*
> You don't watch GSTL do u? He has like 92% win rate in gstl


I see, yes, I haven't watched GSL/GSTL in forever. Time is too inconvenient as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399535*
> Even if Slush survives the early game pressure, do u really think he'll manage to win against MMA?


Ya, why not? MMA is good but not unbeatable as Polt showed


----------



## QuadDamage

Where is the current leader ranking, there leaderboard is not helpfull

Ladder info? for MLG?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14399662*
> ya ya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's put it this way: Watching Boxer against MC in Dreamhack or whatever the tourney was, I thought his micro was horrible. Having said that, he's obviously one of the better players, but, that game was just bad IMO.
> 
> hmm, I haven't seen MVP in action tbh, so, I can't say much.
> 
> I see, yes, I haven't watched GSL/GSTL in forever. Time is too inconvenient as well.
> 
> Ya, why not? MMA is good but not unbeatable as Polt showed


ROFL

Idra =/= MC
Slush =/= Polt

That is all

btw MVP now 3:0 in his group, just decimated Select


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14399710*
> Where is the current leader ranking, there leaderboard is not helpfull
> 
> Ladder info? for MLG?


This is the open bracket
http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-anaheim-starcraft2-open.html#

This is the group stages
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Anaheim/Pools


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14399734*
> ROFL
> 
> Idra =/= MC
> Slush =/= Polt
> 
> That is all
> 
> btw MVP now 3:0 in his group, just decimated Select


Of course he isn't, MC >>> Idra IMO. My point is, Boxer's micro was really horrible in that specific game. This is a game, anything can happen. MVP almost ran his hellions into Select's hellions and that likely would've cost him the game.
My point is, Boxer is good but had his horrible games and he's on par with Idra, maybe slightly better since he's been able to take games from him. As for Slush, ya, he's no Polt but still mistakes happen on either side, so, MMA can make a bad mistake, lose his army and Slush can take the game. Doesn't mean he'll take the series, but, it doesn't mean that its impossible as you make it seem. MMA is pretty risky from the looks of it in the early games(as evident by his games against Polt), but, I haven't watched enough of his recent games to say that he is still as risky.

First game of the new season, TvsT, opponent leaves with 5 seconds XD

Edit: Just won my first TvsZ of the new season XD Guy one based for a while for some reason then eventually went mass slings and expanded. I did some marine pressure early on then went 2 factory blue flame hellions with marines and took out a ton of drones before his roaches popped. At this point, I switched to tanks with MM support and well a bit of micro later won the game. I do think I got him angry though XD hehe, second game of the season and already somewhat of a negative comment since I believe he was being sarcastic


----------



## Sauce Boss

Can some one give a bronze Terran player some APM tips? I'm only 50 APM avg.

Heres one of my amazing replays where I just came back and won the game.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...=0#post8615552


----------



## Sangers_low

Incontrol playing like a diamond player ROFL


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Can some one give a bronze Terran player some APM tips? I'm only 50 APM avg.

Heres one of my amazing replays where I just came back and won the game.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...=0#post8615552


Just so you know high APM doesn't always mean the better player. But anyway you should I think hotkey your Comandcenter, Barrack's, Factory's, Starport's, and your army. I personally use for Terran (not my main race) 1,2,3 for my army, 4 for CC, 5 for Rax's, 6 for Factory's and 7 for Starport's. Now really what you should do is when your macroing and you have all your production faculty's hotkey's you should be tabing which you would just press the hotkey for it let it be 1-9 to see if your making anything out of it and to be sure your always making things out of it if you can be. If you do that your APM should rise.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chucklez*


Just so you know high APM doesn't always mean the better player. But anyway you should I think hotkey your Comandcenter, Barrack's, Factory's, Starport's, and your army. I personally use for Terran (not my main race) 1,2,3 for my army, 4 for CC, 5 for Rax's, 6 for Factory's and 7 for Starport's. Now really what you should do is when your macroing and you have all your production faculty's hotkey's you should be tabing which you would just press the hotkey for it let it be 1-9 to see if your making anything out of it and to be sure your always making things out of it if you can be. If you do that your APM should rise.


Yeah my macro just really slips a lot. I do hotkey though.


----------



## Sangers_low

Nestea!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer is the best.


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Yeah my macro just really slips a lot. I do hotkey though.


Thats a perfect thing to work on, just try and remind yourself to keep tabing through your productions facility's and your macro should get better. But dont tab through so fast you cant tell if you making anything, hit the hotkey, look at the middle bar at the bottem of your screen, see if you making anything if not and you should be start making units!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Boxer is the best.


This might be the Zerg of me talking but the Blue flame hellion drop the first time boxer did it was ok, but then when he did it a second time then MMA did it two times got me bored of it really fast. I'd rather see more then one build beat a player please.

Hey also I don't remember if OCN is doing this but it was like this kinda training night or something? It was just this kinda 1v1 night where people would 1v1 and others would try and give advice on it. You guys still doing that?


----------



## Sangers_low

Nestea, the first undefeated gsl champion.









Quote:



This might be the Zerg of me talking but the Blue flame hellion drop the first time boxer did it was ok, but then when he did it a second time then MMA did it two times got me bored of it really fast. I'd rather see more then one build beat a player please.


Boxer isn't the best cause he did that bf/rine 3inch elevator drop. He is the best because he is BOXER, and also going undefeated in his group doesn't hurt.


----------



## DoomDash

Who else did boxer fight? So many threads on this and I only saw one.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Who else did boxer fight? So many threads on this and I only saw one.


He took out Sheth 2:0, and Sjow 2:0.

Anaheim starts in about 5 hours and that's 5am in australia







Need some sleep asap

Also, all koreans in the group stage are undefeated atm.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sangers_low*


this is the open bracket 
http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011...ft2-open.html#

this is the group stages
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft.../anaheim/pools


thanks!


----------



## BigFan

Really nice TvsZ guide and quite detailed: 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=241247

I really recommend any Ts read this, lots of analysis as well


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Nestea, the first undefeated gsl champion.









Boxer isn't the best cause he did that bf/rine 3inch elevator drop. He is the best because he is BOXER, and also going undefeated in his group doesn't hurt.


But still using the same build over and over is pretty boring, doesn't matter if he is 3-0 in his group when against 2 of his opponents he used the same build both games to beat them. I was hoping to see some nice play and I was surprised and excited the first time he did it but then he did it again and im like ok you can do it twice good job... Then MMA did it twice in a row and I stop watching until the next game started... =/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Who else did boxer fight? So many threads on this and I only saw one.


For you or anyone who wants use this to see the records of everyone currently at MLG. (Switch it to Anaheim and go w/l ratio ^ to see whos leading)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chucklez*


But still using the same build over and over is pretty boring, doesn't matter if he is 3-0 in his group when against 2 of his opponents he used the same build both games to beat them. I was hoping to see some nice play and I was surprised and excited the first time he did it but then he did it again and im like ok you can do it twice good job... Then MMA did it twice in a row and I stop watching until the next game started... =/


Haters gonna hate









DRG vs Huk was disappointing.







DRG, while obviously great, doesn't have an impressive pvz to watch like Nestea(well no ones does.. lol) and Huk is just too terrible to watch. Still, we might see some epic brackets in the championship if all the koreans take no.1







MMA vs Boxer, MVP vs DRG anyone?


----------



## Sangers_low

1 hr left


----------



## QuadDamage

After watch MLG I went Random as I always do in my ladder matches 1v1

Placed 30th Plat, after beating a 22ed ranked Plat, The game was so easy I suck so bad with Zerg I was floating 4500 at the end of the game around the 18 minute mark, 4 base zerg vs 2 base terran 2 ez BRO







I think I can work my way up to Dim if i switch to toss, but I love random


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


After watch MLG I went Random as I always do in my ladder matches 1v1

Placed 30th Plat, after beating a 22ed ranked Plat, The game was so easy I suck so bad with Zerg I was floating 4500 at the end of the game around the 18 minute mark, 4 base zerg vs 2 base terran 2 ez BRO







I think I can work my way up to Dim if i switch to toss, but I love random










Random is fun but you don't get as much TvsZ/PvsZ as I want, that and T has a lot more micro than P/Z IMO so at least I get that bonus









BFH+tanks then thors late game, who would've thought that is the new TvsT metagame


----------



## Kreeker

Just started watching the MLG stream... **** is INTENSE.


----------



## Sangers_low

sad for qxc.. Seems like DDE and DeMuslim are the players he needs to beat in the losers bracket tho... not completely confident about that O_O


----------



## Sangers_low

Damn... So many pvps waiting for Alicia in his losers bracket... literally 4/5 to all of his games could be pvp







sucks for him


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Haters gonna hate










I'm not hating on Boxer nor MMA, but to me watching the same build 4 games in a row is quite boring. If you can stand there and watch it congrats, I don't care who is playing I cant stand that.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chucklez*


I'm not hating on Boxer nor MMA, but to me watching the same build 4 games in a row is quite boring. If you can stand there and watch it congrats, I don't care who is playing I cant stand that.


ROFL quit watching


----------



## yks

Man........ this MLG is POPPING. =DDDDDDD <3


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Man........ this MLG is POPPING. =DDDDDDD <3


I see .....


----------



## Sangers_low

Wow I can't believe how many people are raging at choya because the win...

DT expand is not cheese, and huk/mc does it very frequently , jinro got greedy and lost because of it.
I get why they're worshiping Jinro.. but Choya played well, especially in the second game. He's a awesome coach/player and he's also one of the nicest people in esports









Also, this avoids liquid teamkill and Jinro's not out of the tournament ANYWAY...


----------



## Sangers_low

Boxer just crushed incontrol 2:0 after incontrol claimed he's gonna avenge idra

If Boxer beats cruncher who came up from the open bracket, he'll jump straight up to the upper brackets undefeated, where he'll most likely face MMA

Hype anyone?


----------



## BigFan

Nice to see Boxer winning more games, but, I dunno about having him face MMA. Sounds like a repeat of that final Boxer played against one of his pupils(if u wanna call it that







) back in BW where he lost.

I just played this TvsZ:

I guess this shows what happens if both opponents refuse to lose


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14406885*
> Nice to see Boxer winning more games, but, I dunno about having him face MMA. Sounds like a repeat of that final Boxer played against one of his pupils(if u wanna call it that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) back in BW where he lost.
> 
> I just played this TvsZ:
> 
> I guess this shows what happens if both opponents refuse to lose


I don't care if he loses or wins, cause he won't be eliminated and it's just epic to watch no? Also u'll never know, i mean look at what happened in Nestea vs Losira


----------



## Sauce Boss

Boxer <3

But lets face it, this BFH play is just awesome.


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14405517*
> ROFL quit watching


Haven't watched since yesterday. I was explaining how im not a hater and ur 'Haters Gonna Hate' comment doesn't even refer to me at all. Calm down?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14407121*
> Boxer <3
> 
> But lets face it, this BFH play is just awesome.


Yes I will admit it is a very good timing attack vs Z for sure and probably T as well.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chucklez;14407515*
> Haven't watched since yesterday. I was explaining how im not a hater and ur 'Haters Gonna Hate' comment doesn't even refer to me at all. Calm down?
> 
> Yes I will admit it is a very good timing attack vs Z for sure and probably T as well.


Not so good against T as it is for Z. Siege tech blows BFHs off the map.

I am currently using the BFH build for my TvZ, 2rax FE for TvT and early Marauder play for TvP.


----------



## yks

Ret vs Rain game 3 was sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


----------



## BigFan

hehe, Rain is dominating MLG! BFH are really all the rage atm


----------



## DoomDash

Well it's no surprise they are dominating since blue flame just got added last patch.


----------



## Sangers_low

Pretty good day, I think the games were better than yesterday, still it's a shame that rain denied us MMA vs Boxer and Tyler and Socke were absolutely dreadful


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well it's no surprise they are dominating since blue flame just got added last patch.


What.

Boxer vs MMA is going to be unbelievamazing. What time does that game start on EST?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


What.

Boxer vs MMA is going to be unbelievamazing. What time does that game start on EST?


Rain RUINED the damn thing by beating MMA in the group stage yesterday





















Now Boxer has to verse rain who came first in the group. 
We still have MVP vs DRG tho 

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...ircuit/Anaheim

It starts in about 1 hours.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


What.

Boxer vs MMA is going to be unbelievamazing. What time does that game start on EST?


He means they changed the icon so that everyone wants to click on it now









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Rain RUINED the damn thing by beating MMA in the group stage yesterday





















Now Boxer has to verse rain who came first in the group. 
We still have MVP vs DRG tho 

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...ircuit/Anaheim

It starts in about 1 hours.


Good for Rain. I would say he's fixed his image from GSL 2 that a lot of people were holding onto. Hopefully, he ends up taking MLG!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


He means they changed the icon so that everyone wants to click on it now









Good for Rain. I would say he's fixed his image from GSL 2 that a lot of people were holding onto. Hopefully, he ends up taking MLG!










LOL That's just because Artosis is so bloody biased







Well I'm a fan of nestea too, but idc, win is a win

However, I don't think i give him enough credit despite his results because of his matches







It's solid, but never impressive u know?


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Sangers_low

Choya's a weird player O_O He beats people that are good and loses to people that suck rofl. I know he's an awesome playing coach, but beating Jinro, Optikzero and losing to Tyler and Incontrol O_O?


----------



## Mwarren

^^
So good, its ashame that he lost the other two games to cheese builds.


----------



## Sangers_low

WhiteRa vs Select otw


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












That was pretty sad IMO. He was doing pretty well but getting his 4th taken out like 4 times was just bizzare considering he kept on putting no units near the nexus as it was building


----------



## Sangers_low

Omg stream lag!!!!


----------



## yks




----------



## DoomDash

Aww that game was so CLOSE to going in white-ra's favor.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Aww that game was so CLOSE to going in white-ra's favor.


Disappointing since White-ra didn't cb the council until it was too late. One sec earlier and he would've had zealot legs done then he would've been able to survive and possibly win :/ Of course, this assumes that he had some cb and wasn't waiting for it.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Disappointing since White-ra didn't cb the council until it was too late. One sec earlier and he would've had zealot legs done then he would've been able to survive and possibly win :/ Of course, this assumes that he had some cb and wasn't waiting for it.


Unfortunately, he had a tonne of chrono left









Very nice timing nonetheless. Select beat Whitera in NASL as well 

Boxer vs Rain after this match and........
DRG VS MVP!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah his gold base had full chrono almost.


----------



## Sangers_low

Tlo...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Unfortunately, he had a tonne of chrono left











Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah his gold base had full chrono almost.


Disappointing then because he would've had the upgrade had he cb just a sec earlier.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












That looks so epic! Anyone got a link to the replay?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RlndVt*


That looks so epic! Anyone got a link to the replay?


It was Open Bracket 5 LiquidJinro vs FXOChoya game number 1 and the replay hasn't been uploaded.

Choya took the game 2:1 after he got nuked tho


----------



## Sangers_low

This match is so crazy...


----------



## mfb412

ohh my god boxer v rain


----------



## Sangers_low

Wow Boxer just guaranteed Top 4


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer !!!!

from game one!


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14416032*
> Boxer !!!!
> 
> from game one!


Boxer lost didn't he?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing;14416124*
> Boxer lost didn't he?


Just the first game mate. He came back 2:1, securing top 4.


----------



## Sangers_low

DRG, the man with the best zvt in the world
verses
MVP, the only Terran to win two GSL and considered top 3 along with Nestea and MC

HYPE!!


----------



## yks

He secured top 3, not 4


----------



## Sangers_low

MVP is just too good. Not weird shenanigans like MMA or Boxer. Just perfectly solid gameplay


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14416285*
> He secured top 3, not 4


Boxer AND MVP secured top 4, so not 3









Still, mvp would be his hardest test yet


----------



## brl3git

MVP vrs the Emperor







boxer is prob going to lose that.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14416853*
> Boxer AND MVP secured top 4, so not 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, mvp would be his hardest test yet


incorrect. please read brackets better.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14416136*
> Just the first game mate. He came back 2:1, securing top 4.


hmm, I missed it but that screenshot above looks epic ^^

Did anyone else see that? XD

hmm, hydras in ZvsT?


----------



## murderbymodem

My thoughts on MLG right now:








All Zergs knocked out and only Terrans left. Cursing and crying Zerg tears









I hope that our Terran-only finals at least contain a few more battles like this:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14417383*
> My thoughts on MLG right now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Zergs knocked out and only Terrans left. Cursing and crying Zerg tears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that our Terran-only finals at least contain a few more battles like this:


Darn, still can't believe I missed that :/


----------



## CravinR1

How are you making the .gifs from the video? What program?


----------



## murderbymodem

I got those gifs from www.reddit.com/r/starcraft .

However, when I make gifs myself I use Photoshop CS5. I assume he uses a screen capture program (Flash Media Live Encoder with VH Screen Capture is what I use to stream/record my desktop) to record the MLG stream, converts the video he takes into a series of images, and then turns those videos into a gif.


----------



## Sangers_low




----------



## mfb412

Gotdamnit Boxer


----------



## dcloud

Slayers is lighting up my Zerg Allegiance flag with blue flames.

I love BoxeR, I love the SlayerS team.

I've been considering switching back to Terran recently, especially with Heart of The Swarm coming. I absolutely hate ZvZ.

The great performances of SlayerS @ MLG is making that decision easier and easier.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfb412;14418097*
> Gotdamnit Boxer


I feel his pain :/ I mean 12 tanks!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Boxer still playing super sick, most of these games have been very close.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14418324*
> Boxer still playing super sick, most of these games have been very close.


YES! Awesome game, especially those drops! Gotta say Boxer was definitely the better player there. Hopefully, he wins against MMA









Edit:
Awesome game, too bad Boxer didn't add in some infantry for meatshields. Mass tanks is good but their splash against each other is just terrible!


----------



## DoomDash

wow that was a gg.


----------



## mfb412

Now i'm rooting for MMA, simply because BoxeR said he wanted MMA to get #1


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dcloud;14418098*
> Slayers is lighting up my Zerg Allegiance flag with blue flames.
> 
> I love BoxeR, I love the SlayerS team.
> 
> I've been considering switching back to Terran recently, especially with Heart of The Swarm coming. I absolutely hate ZvZ.
> 
> The great performances of SlayerS @ MLG is making that decision easier and easier.


What's Terran? I thought that race was called Hellion?









I'm sticking with my Zerg. DRG played some amazing games. I'm really sad this is the first MLG where they won't be releasing the replays...I'd really love to study some of DRG's games









Really not sure he went Hydra in ZvT though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14419485*
> What's Terran? I thought that race was called Hellion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sticking with my Zerg. DRG played some amazing games. I'm really sad this is the first MLG where they won't be releasing the replays...I'd really love to study some of DRG's games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really not sure he went Hydra in ZvT though


rofl, a bit angry are we?









As for the hydras, I believe it had to do partially with the drops but it was a bad idea considering hellions fry hydras!

Post #3333!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

I lost my first geforce match today. Boo. Don't played hyped up at MLG (while missing the finals ) and sleepy. Lost to two terrible 1 base baneling busts to lose 1-2. Still first place in my group though, so w/e i advance 16-1.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14417383*
> My thoughts on MLG right now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Zergs knocked out and only Terrans left. Cursing and crying Zerg tears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that our Terran-only finals at least contain a few more battles like this:


Steal r/sc gifs
Post on other sites
???
Profit!

(narwhal?)


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfb412;14419022*
> Now i'm rooting for MMA, simply because BoxeR said he wanted MMA to get #1


This too (sorry for the double post zodac).

That was simply the only reason I wanted MMA to win.

Also, I'm blowing up a picture of the BoxeR Emperor picture and making it a poster.


----------



## van13330gg

Well, IMmvp wiped the floor at the MLG this time around.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Steal r/sc gifs
Post on other sites
???
Profit!

(narwhal?)


This is the first time I've posted anything from /r/starcraft. Go back through this thread, however, and you'll find DoomDash reposting tons of it here. I made fun of him for it a few pages back


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


This is the first time I've posted anything from /r/starcraft. Go back through this thread, however, and you'll find DoomDash reposting tons of it here. I made fun of him for it a few pages back










LOL.

I <3 r/sc. They are my main SC resource besides this thread.


----------



## dcloud

Great event! It definitely surpasses MLG Columbus for me.

Great results for SlayerS. Hopefully, this event will reinvigorate BoxeR and get himself back on track in the GSL.


----------



## Lune

Hey guys any idea where I can find the files for such videos? I want to record some in 1080p

  
 You Tube


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


This is the first time I've posted anything from /r/starcraft. Go back through this thread, however, and you'll find DoomDash reposting tons of it here. I made fun of him for it a few pages back










Yeah of course, not everyone goes to reddit so I pick and choose my favs to share.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14422969*
> Yeah of course, not everyone goes to reddit so I pick and choose my favs to share.


Yep, I was just telling Sauce Boss that you do it a lot more than me.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm having probs with Marines + tanks in PvT, and suggestions?


----------



## DoomDash

Colossus.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Colossus.


He got vikings after my first colossus appeared.

It was siege tanks + marines + vikings vs charge lots + stalkers + colossus

........ I did several warp prism drops but couldn't stop the OP terran ball lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14429629*
> I'm having probs with Marines + tanks in PvT, and suggestions?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14430147*
> He got vikings after my first colossus appeared.
> 
> It was siege tanks + marines + vikings vs charge lots + stalkers + colossus
> 
> ........ I did several warp prism drops but couldn't stop the OP terran ball lol


Have u tried chargelots, sentry, immortals? Chargelots+GS+FF then immortals for tanks. Given, if he goes mass marines, then colossi are the best option but what you can do is bait him into mass vikings. Go mass colossi like 5 or so then once the final engagement is done, switch to mass chargelots and sink the money/leftover gas into upgrades and some sentries, etc.... I don't see why this wouldn't work unless he reads what you do.

Just played this TvsZ:

My macro slipped horribly once his muta harass started and I never recovered(making SCVs is what really slipped). Eventually, I was back on track with making units, but, had a hard time taking a third and my harass afterwards was just futile. Twice I got close to taking out his third and then right on cue, he brings in BLs after his slings+blings+mutas were gone :/

Having said all that, my APM seems to have increased from playing Z, must be all that micro XD


----------



## slinkski

Any Star Battlers?


----------



## Silentness

It's amazing how fast you can lose a PvT when you turn away from the screen for one second. I did a 1 gate fast expand on that new Season 3 blue map where you have 4 watch towers in the middle. We were close position (I was 7 o'clock and him 10 o'clock)

I turn to look at my phone because my GF texted me and I instantly look back up to see myself getting steamrolled by marines/marauder/medivac (face palm). I had enough zealots/sentries to kill him, but I didn't have enough time to forcefield/throw up guardian shield before he blew up all sentries.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


He got vikings after my first colossus appeared.

It was siege tanks + marines + vikings vs charge lots + stalkers + colossus

........ I did several warp prism drops but couldn't stop the OP terran ball lol


Good DT micro is always good against T.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


It's amazing how fast you can lose a PvT when you turn away from the screen for one second. I did a 1 gate fast expand on that new Season 3 blue map where you have 4 watch towers in the middle. We were close position (I was 7 o'clock and him 10 o'clock)

I turn to look at my phone because my GF texted me and I instantly look back up to see myself getting steamrolled by marines/marauder/medivac (face palm). I had enough zealots/sentries to kill him, but I didn't have enough time to forcefield/throw up guardian shield before he blew up all sentries.


HAHAHAHAHA. Still, that's just not PvT, it's Starcraft 2 ROFL. You'll lose battles if u don't look at ur screen


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


He got vikings after my first colossus appeared.

It was siege tanks + marines + vikings vs charge lots + stalkers + colossus

........ I did several warp prism drops but couldn't stop the *OP terran ball *lol


*ROFLMAO* dat comes from PROTOSS??

Colossus will eradicate all marines before vikings take them out. I rly don't know why u'd have any problem against rine tank composition . Try zealot, archon, high templar if u continue to have problems.


----------



## Fortunex

So 2 of my last 5 or 6 games have had Terrans raging about muta harass or muta/ling and how it's homosexual and/or ezmode. I think it's just them not scouting and getting vikings up in time, or having poor marine micro (ironically both people did nothing but spam marines with a couple medivacs and tanks here and there).

What do you all think? Mutas = cheese or should they just stop whining?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14436114*
> So 2 of my last 5 or 6 games have had Terrans raging about muta harass or muta/ling and how it's homosexual and/or ezmode. I think it's just them not scouting and getting vikings up in time, or having poor marine micro (ironically both people did nothing but spam marines with a couple medivacs and tanks here and there).
> 
> What do you all think? Mutas = cheese or should they just stop whining?


Mutas aren't cheese ***, How ******ed are ur opponents? -_- Marines > muta efficiency in ANY battle. Also, you don't get vikings against mutas lol. U get thors and marines.


----------



## Sierpinski

Mutas def not cheese







i play zerg and I used to muta all the time, although Ive started to prefer Infestors and Im practicing them currently.

About the PvT:
I watch a couple of my friends play PvT all the time, and their games change so often. My P friend prefers to go HT and it works pretty well, possibly because my T friends computer sucks so he whines about failing with Ghosts. But also DT work great for harass and with no detection a few can easily help plow through a bio ball.

Maybe try doing some hallucinations? Fake some collosi to force vikings which are pretty useless at that point?

EDIT: Also noticed I really shouldnt be talking cuz i'm only in Silver and I see that at least Sangers is Masters... lol


----------



## DoomDash

Muta's aren't cheesy, they are ridiculously good and annoying as heck from the Terran point of view though. Good muta players make me wanna punch something.


----------



## Sierpinski

I like to use mutas but is hard to focus on the harass and my economy.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## VaiFanatic

Man, I was always good with any race in the original, but it seems I can't get any strategy down. When I finally do, they've already figured out how to counter >.>


----------



## CravinR1

I'm sorry but there is a reason terrrans are the only thing left in MLG, they are the most OP race.

Marauders eat gate units and are easier and faster to get. Early pushes with 5-6 marines + 2-3 marauders are hard, if you don't ff the ramp in time you're dead, and if you do split the army they run beside the ramp and attack you with their range. Also after drop ships ff does next to nothing. Marauders with slow eat gate units, and storms/colossus barely hurt them


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14437420*
> I'm sorry but there is a reason terrrans are the only thing left in MLG, they are the most OP race.
> 
> Marauders eat gate units and are easier and faster to get. Early pushes with 5-6 marines + 2-3 marauders are hard, if you don't ff the ramp in time you're dead, and if you do split the army they run beside the ramp and attack you with their range. Also after drop ships ff does next to nothing. Marauders with slow eat gate units, and storms/colossus barely hurt them


Reminds me of the pic on reddit : 2 Zergs for GSL finals, sick Zerg players. Top 4 Terrans at MLG, Terran OP.

Has nothing to do with almost all the Koreans who came being Terran, most of which already in the non-open brackets.

If you think Terran is hard now you should have been here when they actually did have an advantage early game vs P, now there is none. Late game has always been Protoss favored as well.

OP Race:


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14437420*
> I'm sorry but there is a reason terrrans are the only thing left in MLG, they are the most OP race.
> 
> Marauders eat gate units and are easier and faster to get. Early pushes with 5-6 marines + 2-3 marauders are hard, if you don't ff the ramp in time you're dead, and if you do split the army they run beside the ramp and attack you with their range. Also after drop ships ff does next to nothing. Marauders with slow eat gate units, and storms/colossus barely hurt them


Even though I'm zerg, I'd have to agree with Doomdash. The reason 5 out of top 6 were terrans is due to the majority of korean invites being terran.

Imo, none of the races are particularly OP atm, and the reason most koreans play terran is because terran used to be OP before and terran allows players to execute different styles best: harass, aggression, defensive, etc, if u look at some of the top tier terrans MVP, Polt and MMA, u'll know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14437210*


LOL I don't think that picture is right. How does siege tank and archon have same splash radius? And Colo have less than...O_O Is that ultralisk from the old patch where they had insane radius? -_-


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14437210*


Once again stolen from Reddit


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14436409*
> Muta's aren't cheesy, they are ridiculously good and annoying as heck from the Terran point of view though. Good muta players make me wanna punch something.


This is true.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14439100*
> Even though I'm zerg, I'd have to agree with Doomdash. The reason 5 out of top 6 were terrans is due to the majority of korean invites being terran.
> 
> Imo, none of the races are particularly OP atm, and the reason most koreans play terran is because terran used to be OP before and terran allows players to execute different styles best: harass, aggression, defensive, etc, if u look at some of the top tier terrans MVP, Polt and MMA, u'll know what I'm talking about.


I don't think the high amount of terrans was because they were OP, more because people grew up on sick Terrans in BW for much longer.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Muta's aren't cheesy, they are ridiculously good and annoying as heck from the Terran point of view though. Good muta players make me wanna punch something.


Yep, this is soo true. That last game I posted, my opponent kept harassing with his mutas and my macro slipped a lot as a result.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I'm sorry but there is a reason terrrans are the only thing left in MLG, they are the most OP race.

Marauders eat gate units and are easier and faster to get. Early pushes with 5-6 marines + 2-3 marauders are hard, if you don't ff the ramp in time you're dead, and if you do split the army they run beside the ramp and attack you with their range. Also after drop ships ff does next to nothing. Marauders with slow eat gate units, and storms/colossus barely hurt them


NO, just NO. Terran is NOT OP, no race is actually OP atm. Maybe when SCII was released, but, Terran has been nerfed a lot since then. Terran having the highest skill level from the three races means that a player who can micro/macro well will get rewarded due to the efficiency of Terran units.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Even though I'm zerg, I'd have to agree with Doomdash. The reason 5 out of top 6 were terrans is due to the majority of korean invites being terran.

Imo, none of the races are particularly OP atm, and the reason most koreans play terran is because terran used to be OP before and terran allows players to execute different styles best: harass, aggression, defensive, etc, if u look at some of the top tier terrans MVP, Polt and MMA, u'll know what I'm talking about.


This too, so many different styles. Imagine if they kept the medivac speed the same as it was before, hehe, they would be hard to snipe









Interview with Dustin Browder about HotS:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=250383


----------



## Sauce Boss

Oh my lord.
Someone casted my game







DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

  
 You Tube


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Mutas aren't cheese ***, How ******ed are ur opponents? -_- Marines > muta efficiency in ANY battle. Also, you don't get vikings against mutas lol. U get thors and marines.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Muta's aren't cheesy, they are ridiculously good and annoying as heck from the Terran point of view though. Good muta players make me wanna punch something.


I didn't think so either. They are very effective if well micro'd I find, and most players don't counter it well.

Also yeah, I meant thors, not vikings.


----------



## VaiFanatic

For the most part, it seems I get into a game where no one knows *** they're doing on my team, so I end up playing as Zerg against Toss and Terrans and am overrun by Marines, Thors, and Stalkers >.>

I'd like to get a good 3s or 4s team going, but my skill from the 1st game didn't exactly transfer over smoothly to this one. I'm still used to Marine rushes within the first 10 minutes of a game and totally killing everything haha.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*


For the most part, it seems I get into a game where no one knows *** they're doing on my team, so I end up playing as Zerg against Toss and Terrans and am overrun by Marines, Thors, and Stalkers >.>

I'd like to get a good 3s or 4s team going, but my skill from the 1st game didn't exactly transfer over smoothly to this one. I'm still used to Marine rushes within the first 10 minutes of a game and totally killing everything haha.


Arranged Teams and ZZT or ZZTP teams.


----------



## Dr216

DRG Qualifies for code A


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dr216;14446399*
> drg qualifies for code a


and boxer!!!


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14446713*
> and boxer!!!


yeah with some crazy strats too









32 T 17 P and 15 Z

P seems to be kind of lost right now, all still stuck on these weird timing pushes cheeses and all ins hopefully should see something new and special next season.

T have finally apparently discovered they have other units than marine/tank and even more shockingly have realised that Ravens are not more expensive than 40 scans to get across the map or to kill a few DT's.

Z im not really sure about except that infesters are really really good but i dont like them being so reliant on them. need to see more nydas play and more crazy creep spread.


----------



## poroboszcz

Infestors are too good imo against both T and P.


----------



## Sauce Boss

No one wants to watch my casted game








Its not me casting it, its someone else.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYFQ-MreKow&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14447601*
> No one wants to watch my casted game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not me casting it, its someone else.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYFQ-MreKow&feature=player_embedded


We saw the post the first time

........ and will see it since I quoted it

So quit mentioning it


----------



## dcloud

Easy now...









It's very exciting to get casted and streamed. I can understand being anxious to share with others. So, Congratulations Sauce Boss.

The first time I was selected to be streamed and casted. I was soooo nervous, and I got proxy 2 gated to top it off.

So what league was this? and what event was this for?

If you are looking for tips.......try to not queue up so many units all at once. I know you had a huge influx of resources and it's great you were spending it. Instead, throw down more barracks and factories next time. Getting better at SC2 is all about efficiency.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14447382*
> Infestors are too good imo against both T and P.


x2

Fixed splash damage sheet:









baneling op too lol.


----------



## Sangers_low

LOL That's just SAD Doomdash. Tanks have ridiculously long range, AND don't DIE after a single use, yet they do more damage than banelings....







ofc, they're so op.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14447382*
> Infestors are too good imo against both T and P.


lol, like helions, infestors are actually far better in mirror matches(tvt, zvz) than other MU.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14446958*
> yeah with some crazy strats too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 32 T 17 P and 15 Z
> 
> P seems to be kind of lost right now, all still stuck on these weird timing pushes cheeses and all ins hopefully should see something new and special next season.
> 
> T have finally apparently discovered they have other units than marine/tank and even more shockingly have realised that Ravens are not more expensive than 40 scans to get across the map or to kill a few DT's.
> 
> Z im not really sure about except that infesters are really really good but i dont like them being so reliant on them. need to see more nydas play and more crazy creep spread.


Koreans zergs are not reliant on infestors lol. And I see more toss than zergs... so I'd think all those toss all ins are still viable.


----------



## QuadDamage

I have been playing a bit better, I need to injector more as zerg I always forget, I was able to beat a ranked 19th diamond last night. He proxy racked me 2 rax and bunked my nat, so i went for a 8 roach push, just ran right by his bunkers, had 2 spines in base and took him out. ALL IN FTW









Is the any good map or skills to work on your transition. I watch alot of pro play and I'm very good at the start of the game but I get lost in my transition and mid to late game. I need to have more of a plan of attach.


----------



## Mwarren

Actually I'm starting to like it when zergs open infestors, feels easier to deal with vs muta openings as I don't have to worry about turrets/muta harrass/ and I can get a faster third usually while delaying theirs. Maybe I'll finally hit GM this season too.


----------



## CravinR1

still think the transition from roaches/mass lings to mutas/mass lings is hard to deal with. If you go zealot heavy to deal with the lings then you get eat when they build the SINGLE building to produce 20-30 mutas (if on 2-3 bases) out of the blue


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14449659*
> still think the transition from roaches/mass lings to mutas/mass lings is hard to deal with. If you go zealot heavy to deal with the lings then you get eat when they build the SINGLE building to produce 20-30 mutas (if on 2-3 bases) out of the blue


Hmm.. Not many people go for zealot heavy against roachling, because roaches are too effective against zealots. And if u let ur opponent stockpile 6k resources, ur srsly behind lol.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14449397*
> Actually I'm starting to like it when zergs open infestors, feels easier to deal with vs muta openings as I don't have to worry about turrets/muta harrass/ and I can get a faster third usually while delaying theirs. Maybe I'll finally hit GM this season too.


Infestors are good yes, but pure infestor heavy builds are for noobs who can't multitask, retain map control properly, counter, and micro. There's a reason why no successful professional constantly uses that build.


----------



## QuadDamage

I really like infestors they are a great unit if you can use them correctly ie Steven style


----------



## DoomDash

I really hate Zerg, they are so damn good its gross.

Anyway always open muta before infestor, infestor openers = you going to get mass dropped. Muta offer control and keep terran in his base all scared till you can mass expand and tech then its an easy gg.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I really hate Zerg, they are so damn good its gross.

Anyway always open muta before infestor, infestor openers = you going to get mass dropped. Muta offer control and keep terran in his base all scared till you can mass expand and tech then its an easy gg.


*ROFLMAO*

Looks like someone got owned hard


----------



## DoomDash

I did, but I know I am better than him







.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I did, but I know I am better than him







.


LOL

Ur so funny :3

btw, u know boxer is now in code a and is up against FXOleenock.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes I know its nice. Go boxer.


----------



## Mwarren

You know whats really funny, vikings counter mutas pretty well. If you really wanted to screw with a zerg that you know is going mutas just make 8 vikings and forget making turrets and snipe the mutas as they try to harrass you making them useless. You could probably snipe ovies too if you get air supremacy.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


You know whats really funny, vikings counter mutas pretty well. If you really wanted to screw with a zerg that you know is going mutas just make 8 vikings and forget making turrets and snipe the mutas as they try to harrass you making them useless. You could probably snipe ovies too if you get air supremacy.










wut. You must not have played a good muta player to make that statement. Vikings are terrible vs muta, if you want to add some muta slayers in add some ghosts.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*









wut. You must not have played a good muta player to make that statement. Vikings are terrible vs muta, if you want to add some muta slayers in add some ghosts.


Vikings counter mutas......try it out in a unit tester. An even number of vikings vs mutas, vikings will always win. I'm starting to wonder if an air supremecy terran style might be viable vs zerg. Get vikings for air supremacy vs mutas and add in cloaked banshees.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Vikings counter mutas......try it out in a unit tester. An even number of vikings vs mutas, vikings will always win. I'm starting to wonder if an air supremecy terran style might be viable vs zerg. Get vikings for air supremacy vs mutas and add in cloaked banshees.


Yes, vikings counter almost all Zerg air units. And Colossi.


----------



## Fortunex

As someone who goes mutas frequently against Terran, Vikings are not an efficient counter. I'm more worried about 15-20 well-micro'd marines than I am about 10 vikings from the players I'm usually up against.

Also finally got into silver... Won 25 out of 28 games one day, no promotion, got sick of all the farmers and cheese, so I just started 6/7 pooling, I think I won 2-3 out of 6 games, and got my promotion.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Vikings counter mutas......try it out in a unit tester. An even number of vikings vs mutas, vikings will always win. I'm starting to wonder if an air supremecy terran style might be viable vs zerg. Get vikings for air supremacy vs mutas and add in cloaked banshees.


You're funny.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I really hate Zerg, they are so damn good its gross.

Anyway always open muta before infestor, infestor openers = you going to get mass dropped. Muta offer control and keep terran in his base all scared till you can mass expand and tech then its an easy gg.


hehe, agree. With infestors, you can take a faster third. Only issue is that FG if you got mass marines+tanks









I posted this a while back, thought I should repost for all those Terran players: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=241247
You might benefit from this as well doom









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You're funny.


He makes an interesting point though. If you spread your vikings to avoid some splash and focus fire but make sure not to overkill then, vikings with their range should be able to get the first shot and win in a straight up fight. Having said that, I don't see myself going mass vikings one game. I tried in PTR one game, got FG'd 3 times, lost 8 vikings at once


----------



## Sauce Boss

How do you guys focus your macro?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


How do you guys focus your macro?


Play Zerg









Seriously though, just keep making workers and units


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Play Zerg









Seriously though, just keep making workers and units










I infact keep headphones on and zone into the game, maybe listen to music and Macro to the beat







The song is of course speedcore haha.

For some reason my Macro is scarry good today. I've played 5 ladder matches against zerg and terran (I play terran) and I've won every single match. I usually get 2 rax (then fact on zerg) then expo asap. I've had 3 6pools taken care of with ease and wall offs. 2 of the 6poolers then mass roach. I mass marauder. Screw them. Take the game. I've gone up 30 ranks today. Its been awesome. BUT WHAT DO I DO FOR PROTOSS. Mega nervous.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


I infact keep headphones on and zone into the game, maybe listen to music and Macro to the beat







The song is of course speedcore haha.

For some reason my Macro is scarry good today. I've played 5 ladder matches against zerg and terran (I play terran) and I've won every single match. I usually get 2 rax (then fact on zerg) then expo asap. I've had 3 6pools taken care of with ease and wall offs. 2 of the 6poolers then mass roach. I mass marauder. Screw them. Take the game. I've gone up 30 ranks today. Its been awesome. BUT WHAT DO I DO FOR PROTOSS. Mega nervous.


hmm, I think a marauder stim push with stutterstepping and drops are the way but I've only had moderate luck in Gold


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

anyone got fsaa or fxaa fps improvement in the game?


----------



## Sangers_low

GSTL Slayers vs Prime.we


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14448738*
> lol, like helions, infestors are actually far better in mirror matches(tvt, zvz) than other MU.


I'd seriously appreciate some tips on unit composition against speedling infestor with or without roaches and broodlords added late game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14454860*
> How do you guys focus your macro?


I think it's just a matter of having a plan and building things on time. So I'd for example have something like: get robo asap after starting to push with gateway units (~6:45), get obs as soon as robo is done, after obs start 2 more gates (~8:30), drop robo bay after immortal, add 2x forge after starting 1st colossus(~11:00), take 3rd after range is done, etc.

I find it helpful to set myself some benchmarks based on pro replays like: I should have 75 food, 4 gates and a robo at 10 minutes, 100 food and colo started at 11:30, and then practice till I can meet them without even focusing on it.

At least that's theory







My biggest problem is that I can't seem to stick to one build and I change my strategies after watching any new game or vod, which is not optimal for improvement. But whenever I focus on one build and have a solid plan I tend to play much better.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I'd seriously appreciate some tips on unit composition against speedling infestor with or without roaches and broodlords added late game


High templars + Blink stalker counters them, but u do need to practise ur feedback precision micro. If ur micro backs it up, ht hard counters heavy infestor builds. Going robo tech against infestor isn't too bad, but don't be a moron and walk ur colosi towards the infestors. Colo range and NP range is same.

When opponent gets broodlords, mix some voidrays. FGing voidrays from a zerg's perspective isn't efficient, and if ur at a stage when zerg is killing ur voidrays with infestors alone, ur obviously way behind in economy and should've lost.

Infestor heavy builds in PvZ is far from good in high level and can be countered quite easily. The best PvZers in the world hardly goes infestors in the matchup. It's just noobs who can't scout and adjust that complains about them.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


How do you guys focus your macro?


Keep your eyes moving top right (money), bottom left (mini map), and main screen back to money, constantly throughout the game.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Mwarren*   Keep your eyes moving top right (money), bottom left (mini map), and main screen back to money, constantly throughout the game.  
Or play like Losira

  
 You Tube


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


At least that's theory







My biggest problem is that I can't seem to stick to one build and I change my strategies after watching any new game or vod, which is not optimal for improvement. *But whenever I focus on one build and have a solid plan I tend to play much better.*


This.

I'm only ranked Gold and play mostly 2v2, but when we have a game plan and focus on that strategy, we both play that much better.

I think that's how the pros train as well, keep doing this one strat vs their training partners who knows what they're going to do already. And vice versa: keep fighting their training partners who's only going one strat in order to learn how to defend against it.

Btw is this the right thread to talk about strategies? I can't access TL.net from work and I kinda don't want to get ripped to pieces by their strategy forum. Seems like it happens to 9/10 strategy threads over there


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


This.

I'm only ranked Gold and play mostly 2v2, but when we have a game plan and focus on that strategy, we both play that much better.

I think that's how the pros train as well, keep doing this one strat vs their training partners who knows what they're going to do already. And vice versa: keep fighting their training partners who's only going one strat in order to learn how to defend against it.


zt: 10p helion or proxy 4 rax, zzt: double 10p helion or proxy rauder, zztp or zztt: double 10p helion with dts or 4 gate or double 10p and double helion with one banshee.(used to snipe zztp with superior helion numbers)

The best team tactics, Period. Zerg is ridiculously good in team games.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


zt: 10p helion or proxy 4 rax, zzt: double 10p helion or proxy rauder, zztp or zztt: double 10p helion with dts or 4 gate or double 10p and double helion with one banshee.(used to snipe zztp with superior helion numbers)

The best team tactics, Period. Zerg is ridiculously good in team games.


Oh, but we both play toss









One of us goes gateway units into templar/dt, and the other techs to colossi.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Play Zerg










Indeed. A normal game for me as a Zerg: Macro like a boss, and then transition into losing my whole base.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Indeed. A normal game for me as a Zerg: Macro like a boss, and then transition into losing my whole base.










haha, I don't think it's that bad for me







Having said that, I did lose a lot back when I started playing Zerg


----------



## DoomDash

So I was getting SLAUGHTERED by this Zerg player. He was just about to put the nail in the coffin ( broodlords, and I was not ready ), so I decided to use my only option for maybe pulling out a win. It just so happened it worked!


----------



## BigFan

Just played this TvsP on Altar. Would say its the longest game I've played for that MU and lots of back and forth action. Watch out for mass storms at the end









Enjoy


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14466788*
> So I was getting SLAUGHTERED by this Zerg player. He was just about to put the nail in the coffin ( broodlords, and I was not ready ), so I decided to use my only option for maybe pulling out a win. It just so happened it worked!


Why'd he pull his units back? It was a base race and you were all in that area while he was spread out, with those 2-3 expansions, he could won that easily.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14466788*
> So I was getting SLAUGHTERED by this Zerg player. He was just about to put the nail in the coffin ( broodlords, and I was not ready ), so I decided to use my only option for maybe pulling out a win. It just so happened it worked!


Tupac is back from the dead!!! The Zerg brought him back as an Infested Terran.

Tupac will replace Kerrigan in Heart of the Swarm


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14468902*
> Tupac is back from the dead!!! The Zerg brought him back as an Infested Terran.
> 
> Tupac will replace Kerrigan in Heart of the Swarm


Reality is wrong. Dreams are for KEEEEEEL THE TERRANS.

-Tupac the Overlord.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Why'd he pull his units back? It was a base race and you were all in that area while he was spread out, with those 2-3 expansions, he could won that easily.










Yeah, he really gave it away. We talked a little after the game and I knew I was getting owned. I only won because of a very poor decision on his part at the end. I'm pretty happy with it though lol.

I think for the first time I feel progress in my skill. It's been a damn long time where I kind of felt the same skill level, but I think in many ways I am stepping my game up. The only match I can't really figure out how to improve enough is TvP currently... idk that match up is so dang hard.


----------



## Sangers_low

GSTL IM vs Startale in an hour









MVP vs Bomber first match


----------



## Sangers_low

Man IM is in a rough spot . If zenex wins their remaining games, and they have a great chance, because of their opponents, IM will not make it, since they're on -4. Also, if they lose their next match against NSHoseo...


----------



## vdek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Steal r/sc gifs
Post on other sites
???
Profit!

(narwhal?)


Why don't you go make a post on reddit about the inhumanity and cruelty of it all.


----------



## Sangers_low

How awesome would it be if Yellow just roflstomps Boxer and declares he'll join sc2 scene


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


How awesome would it be if Yellow just roflstomps Boxer and declares he'll join sc2 scene










not gonna lie i would nerdgasm....but honestly dont see it happening.

or more accurately it has or has not already happened, waiting on those vods, stupid stream wouldnt load for me at all :'(


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vdek*


Why don't you go make a post on reddit about the inhumanity and cruelty of it all.


This is not a bad idea...


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## DoomDash

Without Korean Terrans that list would look really bad for Terran







.

<3 Korean Terrans.


----------



## poroboszcz

I played a TvZ today. Managed to open pretty smoothlt, given it was like my ~30th game as terran since beta. Went rax -> factory -> CC. Made tech lab on rax, which finished exactly at the same time as factory. Started research and hellion production. Just as my research was finishing I got to his expansion with 4 hellions against only some lings and blings morphing just to realize I've researched... 250 mm strike cannons.









A funny game, which I eventually lost because I never established a 3rd. Made me realize how much of a pain managing terran production buildings is compared to Z and P, but also how strong multiple drops can be and how fun marine/tank combo is to play.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14478921*
> I played a TvZ today. Managed to open pretty smoothlt, given it was like my ~30th game as terran since beta. Went rax -> factory -> CC. Made tech lab on rax, which finished exactly at the same time as factory. Started research and hellion production. Just as my research was finishing I got to his expansion with 4 hellions against only some lings and blings morphing just to realize I've researched... 250 mm strike cannons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A funny game, which I eventually lost because I never established a 3rd. Made me realize how much of a pain managing terran production buildings is compared to Z and P, but also how strong multiple drops can be and how fun marine/tank combo is to play.


Good opening. I usually 2rax, fac, expo or 1rax, 2fac, expo.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14466044*
> haha, I don't think it's that bad for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having said that, I did lose a lot back when I started playing Zerg


Hah, I was just exaggerating. I'm doing relatively well in Platinum league. I just got over a pretty bad losing streak, but I think I've stabilized after getting my vetos straightened out (ie veto'd all of the terrible new maps they added).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I played a TvZ today. Managed to open pretty smoothlt, given it was like my ~30th game as terran since beta. Went rax -> factory -> CC. Made tech lab on rax, which finished exactly at the same time as factory. Started research and hellion production. Just as my research was finishing I got to his expansion with 4 hellions against only some lings and blings morphing just to realize I've researched... 250 mm strike cannons.









A funny game, which I eventually lost because I never established a 3rd. Made me realize how much of a pain managing terran production buildings is compared to Z and P, but also how strong multiple drops can be and how fun marine/tank combo is to play.


I think Terran is the most fun / complete / rewarding race by far.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14470684*
> Yeah, he really gave it away. We talked a little after the game and I knew I was getting owned. I only won because of a very poor decision on his part at the end. I'm pretty happy with it though lol.
> 
> I think for the first time I feel progress in my skill. It's been a damn long time where I kind of felt the same skill level, but I think in many ways I am stepping my game up. The only match I can't really figure out how to improve enough is TvP currently... idk that match up is so dang hard.


yep, bad decision on his part. Why not go for a fast stim MMG attack? You did it against Plexa way back on Delta and it worked, what changed now so that it doesn't?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14479228*
> Hah, I was just exaggerating. I'm doing relatively well in Platinum league. I just got over a pretty bad losing streak, but I think I've stabilized after getting my vetos straightened out (ie veto'd all of the terrible new maps they added).


hehe, kk








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14480568*
> I think Terran is the most fun / complete / rewarding race by far.


Indeed, marine micro is a lot of fun


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14480810*
> yep, bad decision on his part. Why not go for a fast stim MMG attack? You did it against Plexa way back on Delta and it worked, what changed now so that it doesn't?


If they go Colossus and get more than one out its pretty fail. It's kind of all in if you do what I used to do. IDK man I might have to do something like that cause late game TvP is a joke.


----------



## Sauce Boss

I am on a 15 win stream. Went from rank 89 to 39 in 3 days.


----------



## DoomDash

I've had 13 win streaks twice, but 15 is really good







.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've had 13 win streaks twice, but 15 is really good







.


I'm only bronze ;D


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I've had 13 win streaks twice, but 15 is really good







.


My best is 10 I think then I lost a game, won another 3 and got promoted to gold









Just played these 2 games, both TvsZ micro intensive:

This one I did a lot of drops in and was able to take it. My opponent was a little odd though with his conversation, wasn't too sure if his last comment was a BM or not considering our conversation XD


This one I should've taken as well, decent tank push, but, overstimmed without medivacs and had some bad placement with my tanks causing some mutas to pick some off. Didn't drop harass like the first and got medivacs pretty late. Me and my opponent both agreed that had I drop harassed, I would've taken that but at least, he also admitted that he was pulling his hair out and was praying to defend my push XD

Maybe its just me, but, these 2 games, both my Z opponents went for OL drops, wonder if its becoming the norm now


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


I'm only bronze ;D


Sounds like Silver soon







.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14483145*
> Sounds like Silver soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Whatttt? I'm only at rank 39?


----------



## DoomDash

Well if you are hitting huge streaks....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvQBTP1inE&[/ame]


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14486764*
> Well if you are hitting huge streaks....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvQBTP1inE&


I am but I just got disced. I hate my internet...


----------



## Sauce Boss

Doomdash can we 1v1?


----------



## Sangers_low

Can anyone explain how the Battle.net invitationals work and how the Global thingy in Anaheim is selected?

Oh and the EU link for those who's missing out







http://www.own3d.tv/live/27902/Battle.net_Invitational
http://eu.battle.net/blizzcon/en/tournaments/


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14487418*
> Doomdash can we 1v1?


He's mid-high master


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sangers_low;14487467*
> he's mid-high master


... Do it anyways :d


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14478499*
> Without Korean Terrans that list would look really bad for Terran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> <3 Korean Terrans.


Starcraft 2 is only getting a fraction of attention from Korean gamers. Consider how much the korean scene will improve when SC2 takes over bw there







IMMVP is the only none-horrid(Losira, Nestea) or washed-up(Nada, July, Boxer) BW player, and think about how well he does in sc2.

People believing the gap's gonna close is sooo wrong


----------



## Sauce Boss

http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1052485/wTENnONE#

How does this look







?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14487564*
> http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1052485/wTENnONE#
> 
> How does this look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


So GOSU I'll be scared if we meet in ladder








Ofc, my boarding school has to stop blocking sc2


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14487600*
> So GOSU I'll be scared if we meet in ladder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ofc, my boarding school has to stop blocking sc2


Was my gosu /sarcasm?

Lucky! Play starcraft NOW!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14487418*
> Doomdash can we 1v1?


Sure, if you see me active in overclock.net channel then you can ask me for a game.

PS: Stole another game so hard from Zerg today, he couldn't believe it, and neither could I. He had just played combatex on the ladder, who was GM last season... maybe I'm getting close? I doubt it but hopefully.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14487739*
> Sure, if you see me active in overclock.net channel then you can ask me for a game.
> 
> PS: Stole another game so hard from Zerg today, he couldn't believe it, and neither could I. He had just played combatex on the ladder, who was GM last season... maybe I'm getting close? I doubt it but hopefully.










okays. Also how do you get your APM higher? Like how to you practice with out spamming?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14487739*
> Sure, if you see me active in overclock.net channel then you can ask me for a game.
> 
> PS: Stole another game so hard from Zerg today, he couldn't believe it, and neither could I. He had just played combatex on the ladder, who was GM last season... maybe I'm getting close? I doubt it but hopefully.


High masters frequently verse gms







I too had the misfortune of versing idiots like combatex and echo.

From the ladder's gm opponents, I think about 40-80 of the previous GMs will be replaced, but sc2ranks suggests that only the 2k+ masters fit in the category. Also, there are some new faces in the NA ladder, like ZenexHack and Hwangsin, who will certainly be a strong challenge for that number 1 spot.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14487814*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okays. Also how do you get your APM higher? Like how to you practice with out spamming?


Huh?.. APM does not translate into skill, and I think only practising will help your apm. That being said, mechanics, learning basic unit composition and timings(9min for zerg and etc) will help u most


----------



## DoomDash

I think just playing gets your APM higher. I didn't do any techniques or anything and my apm is about 40-50 higher than when I started at least.


----------



## CravinR1

Any High ranked Toss player want to coach me? (gold or higher, higher the better)

Silver 1's, currently top 5 playing alot of golds


----------



## Sauce Boss

Doom, do you think you could maybe coach me









If not I understand







I'm getting there.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14489769*
> Doom, do you think you could maybe coach me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not I understand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting there.


Yeah I can do some coaching, and if you see jediwin you should ask him as well since he is better than me, random, korean, and a better coach.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Doom, do you think you could maybe coach me









If not I understand







I'm getting there.


Just play a lot and learn the basics of the game before you worry about getting any coaching. It should be pretty easy to get out of Bronze, all you have to do is macro well. Constantly producing workings, and actually expanding more than once will get you out of Bronze easily


----------



## xHassassin

I'll play some of you guys for fun.

Add me

xHassassin/402

Random player, probably diamond/masters level. I don't ladder.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


I don't ladder.


Then you don't have a level.


----------



## yks

all i do is win win win


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Just play a lot and learn the basics of the game before you worry about getting any coaching. It should be pretty easy to get out of Bronze, all you have to do is macro well. Constantly producing workings, and actually expanding more than once will get you out of Bronze easily










Strangely, I know allot about the game. In fact I cast! But I'm 13 so no one takes me seriously









The reason I have 15 wins in the last 3 days is because of my INSANE macro game. I've been doing really well with my macro recently. I do need to work on getting a third expo though. I am the King of Siege Tank contains


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


all i do is win win win


This has been my luck the last 2 days.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think just playing gets your APM higher. I didn't do any techniques or anything and my apm is about 40-50 higher than when I started at least.


This. Mine increased about 20-30 with Z once I played more games. It's skyrocketed with Terran due to marine micro









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah I can do some coaching, and if you see jediwin you should ask him as well since he is better than me, random, *korean*, and a better coach.


hehe, you just had to throw that in there, didn't you?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This has been my luck the last 2 days.










There you go, you just cursed yourself


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This has been my luck the last 2 days.










i'm just sending you positive vibes, that's why.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't claim to be a god or anything, but I wrote a very small guide with a replay pack on another forum for the current TvT meta game, kinda like my findings so far. I've had a lot of success in TvT recently, like 11-1 in the last week or so.

Here you go for those interested:

Well TvT has always been my worst MU, but after finally what seems like getting used to the new meta game I have gotten pretty good ( or lucky ) at it recently. I open with a reaper fast tank expand, and play very defensive early on. I go turret crazy to prevent drops and banshee, and I get Thors started before just about everyone it seems. I think I am about 10-1 in my last 11 TvT's ( and again I used to be terrible at it when it was rine tank ect ).

Anyway since I've been having a bunch of success, mainly due to thors, I thought I'd share a replay pack of 5 games. I generally also get occasional ravens, I find them to be super helpful in so many situations, pdd for defense, rauders, and auto turret to harass and kill tanks with FF, as well as normal detection.

Although none of these replays show it, if you reach an impass I do go BC viking raven.

http://www.MegaShare.com/3486923

Comments, questions? Still new for almost everyone but I think I'm getting the hang of it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I don't claim to be a god or anything, but I wrote a very small guide with a replay pack on another forum for the current TvT meta game, kinda like my findings so far. I've had a lot of success in TvT recently, like 11-1 in the last week or so.

Here you go for those interested:

Well TvT has always been my worst MU, but after finally what seems like getting used to the new meta game I have gotten pretty good ( or lucky ) at it recently. I open with a reaper fast tank expand, and play very defensive early on. I go turret crazy to prevent drops and banshee, and I get Thors started before just about everyone it seems. I think I am about 10-1 in my last 11 TvT's ( and again I used to be terrible at it when it was rine tank ect ).

Anyway since I've been having a bunch of success, mainly due to thors, I thought I'd share a replay pack of 5 games. I generally also get occasional ravens, I find them to be super helpful in so many situations, pdd for defense, rauders, and auto turret to harass and kill tanks with FF, as well as normal detection.

Although none of these replays show it, if you reach an impass I do go BC viking raven.

http://www.MegaShare.com/3486923

Comments, questions? Still new for almost everyone but I think I'm getting the hang of it.


Nice, sounds interesting. I'll see if I can take a long a bit later on









2-1 record tonight, never knew that drops in TvsT were ***** drops XD

This TvsZ I got rolled over. My opponent had the fastest infestor/BL combo I've ever seen and had 4 bases saturated with drones. Suffice to say, I didn't compare much. Kept me on the ropes all game with slings/bane then went for fast upgrades and teched up:


Another TvsZ but I won this one. Tried to harass third times, each time more successful than the last. Did a crazy slow tank push(~7min) to win the game XD


What do you guys think of the first TvsZ? Do I dare say that he's the first Zerg I've played that is a macro Zerg?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


What do you guys think of the first TvsZ? Do I dare say that he's the first Zerg I've played that is a macro Zerg?










Have you played my Zerg?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Nice, sounds interesting. I'll see if I can take a long a bit later on









2-1 record tonight, never knew that drops in TvsT were ***** drops XD

This TvsZ I got rolled over. My opponent had the fastest infestor/BL combo I've ever seen and had 4 bases saturated with drones. Suffice to say, I didn't compare much. Kept me on the ropes all game with slings/bane then went for fast upgrades and teched up:


Another TvsZ but I won this one. Tried to harass third times, each time more successful than the last. Did a crazy slow tank push(~7min) to win the game XD


What do you guys think of the first TvsZ? Do I dare say that he's the first Zerg I've played that is a macro Zerg?










I don't have sc2 on this laptop so I can't watch the replay, but judging by his profile, you were probably versing a higher level player smurfing on that account. But then again, I didn't watch the replay..









http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...2/1/GaryMfOak/

Look at his atrocious match history...

You know, one way to beat bl infestor is to have a good economy/production to support unit exchange and have a good positioning. Just keep pumping a lot of vikings, and when u engage, don't get bloody greedy and move ur vikings away from ur tanks EVER. If ur aren't greedy, vikings won't get hit by FG because of tanks, and vikings will make short work of approaching bl. Terran lategame macro is harder than the other two races, so a lot of players, even the "top NA" ones have problems with it. However, players with patience and macro can convincingly beat such zergs, so it does pay off(terran has the highest skill cap for macro as well







). eg. IMMVP, ZenexByun, etc.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, I'm so so bad. Makes me look like bronze.

http://drop.sc/24821


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14494954*
> I don't have sc2 on this laptop so I can't watch the replay, but judging by his profile, you were probably versing a higher level player smurfing on that account. But then again, I didn't watch the replay..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2754532/1/GaryMfOak/
> 
> Look at his atrocious match history...
> 
> You know, one way to beat bl infestor is to have a good economy/production to support unit exchange and have a good positioning. Just keep pumping a lot of vikings, and when u engage, don't get bloody greedy and move ur vikings away from ur tanks EVER. If ur aren't greedy, vikings won't get hit by FG because of tanks, and vikings will make short work of approaching bl. Terran lategame macro is harder than the other two races, so a lot of players, even the "top NA" ones have problems with it. However, players with patience and macro can convincingly beat such zergs, so it does pay off(terran has the highest skill cap for macro as well). eg. IMMVP, ZenexByun, etc.


I problem is your tanks still still kill each other very fast even if you have vikings attacking BL's since they have so much damn HP. Honestly I think you need a PF ( upgraded ) to sit behind more than anything.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14495208*
> Lol, I'm so so bad. Makes me look like bronze.
> 
> http://drop.sc/24821


There's nothing wrong with bronze players











I also lied about my APM







http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=225209#/replay_stats

ITS AWESOME.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14496600*
> I problem is your tanks still still kill each other very fast even if you have vikings attacking BL's since they have so much damn HP. Honestly I think you need a PF ( upgraded ) to sit behind more than anything.


SC2 tanks are smarter than sc1 tanks, they don't kill each other as well, so iff zerg comes forward with the bls, they are trading bls with tanks, and if u have 8+ vikings, the trade's usually in your favour









I usually play in KR region, (the NA account below is a shared one) and the difference between the terrans are astounding. Really, the problem with NA terrans is that their harass and multitasking isn't as good as Kr. They commit to an aggressive opening they've seen from kr







, but fail to do any damage, and their macro slip, which leads to zerg having a ridiculous economic advantage.

Another thing about the NA scene, is that they are so oblivious of other regions and strategies. Look at MLG anaheim and how they(including commentators) were all freaking out about the terrans' play. -_-(the mech and helion play was going around for at least 2 months) Infestor ling play is an other good example. Destiny didn't start that build, and it's certainly not "unique" or special. You'll see half the EU zergs doing similar builds in a FAR BETTER fashion. It's quite sad how NA scene considers themselves equal to EU and used to think they were catching up to KR, when the truth is far away.

Personally, I don't do infestor bl in my late game
rant over/


----------



## DoomDash

I've played quite a few Euro guys, same rating as me and I'm not impressed by them. KR is a different story. I played 3 games on Korea so far ( 3-0 ), but only placements







.

Still I think you underestimate BL infestor, just like I feel like the Koreans underestimate Infestor in general. Destiny straight up toying with Koreans and he's not even very good.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14497577*
> I've played quite a few Euro guys, same rating as me and I'm not impressed by them. KR is a different story. I played 3 games on Korea so far ( 3-0 ), but only placements
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Still I think you underestimate BL infestor, just like I feel like the Koreans underestimate Infestor in general. Destiny straight up toying with Koreans and he's not even very good.


Obviously the amateur level isn't that different, but the higher leagues,(high master and gms) are far better in EU imo. Destiny only verses mid and occasional high level masters in the kr ladder, and the few good koreans he beat are obviously oblivious to his play style. I don't necessarily want to discredit the guy for his wins, but if destiny manages to beat them in actual tournaments, I'll eat my FXO shirt









I think bl infestor play is very strong, but I don't rate it ridiculously highly like a lot of masters do. I believe it can be countered fine, provided that ur not like 2 bases behind the zerg.

Personally, in tvz and tvp, I opt for ling infestor ultra combination in late game instead of bl/infestor. I think the likes of Stephano does this as well.


----------



## DoomDash

I think you are making a mistake. Ultras are meh compared to BL infestor.

And my friend is high masters ( but protoss ) europe, and I watch him stream often... not impressed.

Also didn't Destiny beat Bomber with his style, and Ace? Just saying.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14497720*
> I think you are making a mistake. Ultras are meh compared to BL infestor.
> 
> And my friend is high masters ( but protoss ) europe, and I watch him stream often... not impressed.
> 
> Also didn't Destiny beat Bomber with his style, and Ace? Just saying.


Ultras as an unit is far inferior than bls, but they offer more mobility and they aren't as fragile. You can constantly keep up aggression and exchange units. Also, against a player who utilises ghosts well, ultra inf ling is a better choice.

I recommend watching programmers from EU and comparing them to NA. Or simply, just think about the players.

I stand by what I said. I watched the game and bomber definitely got careless after his initial drops succeeded. I'll eat my FXO shirt if destiny beats Bomber in the upcoming MLG Raleigh.


----------



## DoomDash

I think his style is good, in fact I know it it is. I don't know if he will beat Bomber, but he def has the potential to beat better players with that style than I think he should personally.

Also, I think ghosts are even better against Ultras than BL's. I love sniping Ultras, and its not nearly as dangerous for ghosts with Ultras out. BL Infestor is Terrans worst nightmare regardless of ghosts, or even ghosts + viking. At least that's how I feel, but it's not just me, pros feel this way as well as I so often bring up Morrow.

And I do agree that Grand master top 100 Euros are absolutely better than top 100 NA players, but below that I don't think its much different, maybe a little but hardly much. Lately NA has been getting some pretty solid Terrans from SixJax though. Also QXC and Huk pretty beastly right now, obv due to korea.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14497867*
> I think his style is good, in fact I know it it is. I don't know if he will beat Bomber, but he def has the potential to beat better players with that style than I think he should personally.
> 
> Also, I think ghosts are even better against Ultras than BL's. I love sniping Ultras, and its not nearly as dangerous for ghosts with Ultras out. BL Infestor is Terrans worst nightmare regardless of ghosts, or even ghosts + viking. At least that's how I feel, but it's not just me, pros feel this way as well as I so often bring up Morrow.
> 
> And I do agree that Grand master top 100 Euros are absolutely better than top 100 NA players, but below that I don't think its much different, maybe a little but hardly much. Lately NA has been getting some pretty solid Terrans from SixJax though. Also QXC and Huk pretty beastly right now, obv due to korea.


Doom, what can I improve in this?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14497892*
> Doom, what can I improve in this?


I've only watched the first 10 min so far:

You sent you SCV to build a wall off depot too late. Send him at 9 supply with 10th SCV building if you wall.

You delayed your orbital to block, maybe this is to prevent bronze cheese but you want your orbital asap on 15.

You had you 1st depot scv rally back to your minerals, you should scout with him. If you do not scout with him, have him build the barracks, you sent another scv to build the barracks all the way from your minerals, even though that one was right next to where the barracks needed to be.

Tanks kinda suck vs Toss, besides some specific timings, just be warned.

I dont like your factory and 2nd racks placements at all. If you play against Protoss you don't want too much near the edges or at your wall because then range 6 voidrays can pick them off uncontested since rines are only range 5.

You should make your in base CC an orbital faster, generally before you even move it to your expo.

Your rally was off on your nat CC, it went to your main. Also when you land it you want to transfer about half or 40% of your scvs to your nat to be more efficient.

Not constant enough with SCV's, and you queued up too many a few times.

Not enough unit producing structures.

Money high.

Medivacs but no harass.

Shift qued multiple turrets with one SCV.

WAY WAY too many supply call downs.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14497867*
> I think his style is good, in fact I know it it is. I don't know if he will beat Bomber, but he def has the potential to beat better players with that style than I think he should personally.
> 
> Also, I think ghosts are even better against Ultras than BL's. I love sniping Ultras, and its not nearly as dangerous for ghosts with Ultras out. BL Infestor is Terrans worst nightmare regardless of ghosts, or even ghosts + viking. At least that's how I feel, but it's not just me, pros feel this way as well as I so often bring up Morrow.
> 
> And I do agree that Grand master top 100 Euros are absolutely better than top 100 NA players, but below that I don't think its much different, maybe a little but hardly much. Lately NA has been getting some pretty solid Terrans from SixJax though. Also QXC and Huk pretty beastly right now, obv due to korea.


Stephano > Morrow, and I know morrow is very well known, but at this moment, one has to be very generous to place him in top 5 EU zergs.
I disagree about QXC . All-killing IM was extraordinary, but his MLG anaheim performance was very disappointing and so has his performances in online cups.

I'm not sure how NA players utilise Ultraling infestor, but I definitely prefer it over bl/infestor. It allows u to gain map control better, and as I said again, it's not as fragile. I go for constant aggression + army trades, and bl infestor don't suit the style. Snipes are good yes, but I haven't encountered situations where ghosts' snipe helped a lot when ultralings are sandwiching the opponent's army and FG and NP were going in.

Also, I agree about the part where infestors/bl allows noobs to do well against better players, but my point is that it has limitations. If u have seen Bomber play, and Destiny play, AND saw the match, you shouldn't be bringing it up. As I said before, there are far better zergs with infestorling play than destiny, especially in europe. (Eg. Dimaga, Stephano)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14497999*
> I've only watched the first 10 min so far:
> 
> You sent you SCV to build a wall off depot too late. Send him at 9 supply with 10th SCV building if you wall.
> 
> You delayed your orbital to block, maybe this is to prevent bronze cheese but you want your orbital asap on 15.
> 
> You had you 1st depot scv rally back to your minerals, you should scout with him. If you do not scout with him, have him build the barracks, you sent another scv to build the barracks all the way from your minerals, even though that one was right next to where the barracks needed to be.
> 
> Tanks kinda suck vs Toss, besides some specific timings, just be warned.
> 
> I dont like your factory and 2nd racks placements at all. If you play against Protoss you don't want too much near the edges or at your wall because then range 6 voidrays can pick them off uncontested since rines are only range 5.
> 
> You should make your in base CC an orbital faster, generally before you even move it to your expo.
> 
> Your rally was off on your nat CC, it went to your main. Also when you land it you want to transfer about half or 40% of your scvs to your nat to be more efficient.
> 
> Not constant enough with SCV's, and you queued up too many a few times.


Why bother learning pvt?








1/1/1 Polt style All-in FTW
or with cloak banshee, whatever


----------



## DoomDash

I wouldn't say Stepheno is better than Morrow at this point, Morrow still more proven over all.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14498056*
> I wouldn't say Stepheno is better than Morrow at this point, Morrow still more proven over all.


I disagree. SC2 is still a relatively a new game, so the "skill ranking" is very volatile. Would u rate FD higher than Bomber because he's won gsl and bomber hasn't? How about Anyproprime over Tassadar and Puzzle?

Stephano's young, and new, but his results and play are far more impressive than morrow. Ofc, if he fails to continue that, and morrow gets better, things will change. Also, add Nerchio, Ret and Dimaga to the top european zergs.


----------



## DoomDash

Maybe he's gotten a lot better but from everything I've seen morrow looks better, but it has been awhile since I've seen both of them play I suppose.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14498193*
> Maybe he's gotten a lot better but from everything I've seen morrow looks better, but it has been awhile since I've seen both of them play I suppose.


Hahaha, believe me, morrow "looked better" before








I know this is an awful way to analyse players, but look at the most recent tournament, ROG Assembly summer, 4 days ago. Btw, both of the players' best matchup is tvz and the worst zvz.

Morrow fell to Bratok, a top 3 russian terran 2:1 and Stephano bested him later in the bronze place match 3:0. Stephano defeated Sen 2:1(he probably did have jet lag tho) and fell in the semis to dimaga 3:2, who won the tournament.

Tune into his stream and compare it to Destiny







(he uses ultra inf ling) Tbh, I haven't seen that many results from him and hardly any matches against korean players, but I'd still rate him over Morrow and put him as top 5 EU zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure if I told you guys but I did make it to the actual Geforce tournament, done with the round robin stuff.

I won my first match vs a Master Terran today 2-0. One 45 min game on XC, and one 34 min game on Alter. Preview:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Have you played my Zerg?


A long time back and only like 3-4 times, if even XD Would like to play it again now but I doubt that's gonna happen since you're never online/only want to obs









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I don't have sc2 on this laptop so I can't watch the replay, but judging by his profile, you were probably versing a higher level player smurfing on that account. But then again, I didn't watch the replay..










http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/...2/1/GaryMfOak/

Look at his atrocious match history...

You know, one way to beat bl infestor is to have a good economy/production to support unit exchange and have a good positioning. Just keep pumping a lot of vikings, and when u engage, don't get bloody greedy and move ur vikings away from ur tanks EVER. If ur aren't greedy, vikings won't get hit by FG because of tanks, and vikings will make short work of approaching bl. Terran lategame macro is harder than the other two races, so a lot of players, even the "top NA" ones have problems with it. However, players with patience and macro can convincingly beat such zergs, so it does pay off(terran has the highest skill cap for macro as well







). eg. IMMVP, ZenexByun, etc.


hmm, well it was my fault for FEing on altar. That and I didn't move out faster or double exp once I moved out, so, I sat back and massed an army as I made SCVs while he was expanding more and teching/upgrading with not much harass from my side. I think I need to return to my old blue flame hellion drops and doing multiple of those at the same time like I've done before. 
That and I also didn't even try to find out his composition, so, my fault again









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Not sure if I told you guys but I did make it to the actual Geforce tournament, done with the round robin stuff.

I won my first match vs a Master Terran today 2-0. One 45 min game on XC, and one 34 min game on Alter. Preview:











GJ. More wins!!!!!


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I won my first match vs a Master Terran today 2-0. One 45 min game on XC, and one 34 min game on Alter. Preview:


A buttload of Battlecruisers vs. a few Vikings...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


A long time back and only like 3-4 times, if even XD Would like to play it again now but I doubt that's gonna happen since you're never online/only want to obs










You must have a terrible memory I've crushed you so many times with Zerg.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule*


A buttload of Battlecruisers vs. a few Vikings...










All that was left.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Doom is there anything else you can recommend? I just want to get out of Bronze ...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Doom is there anything else you can recommend? I just want to get out of Bronze ...


Best way to get better is just practicing and learning from your mistakes tbh. I played BW long before anyone was sick good, long before BO's were popular, and long before we had information on getting better. I was way above average then just because I put in the time and practice to learn. I think the tips I gave you so far are more than enough to work on for now. Things like exact builds are less important than learning the basics.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You must have a terrible memory I've crushed you so many times with Zerg.


hehe, then you don't know me IRL if you make that comment







I can only guess you mean the games we played back when SCII was first released, but, I was referring to recent games(within the last month or two). Way back, I would get roflstomped, at least I'm a bit better at holding my own for a while before I get overwhelmed


----------



## DoomDash

I'm talking 1-2 months max. The games where I would go mass muta and mass expand everywhere and you would pretty much never get to leave your bases. Played quite a few







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I'm talking 1-2 months max. The games where I would go mass muta and mass expand everywhere and you would pretty much never get to leave your bases. Played quite a few







.


Yes, I recall but that game was on ST way back(more than 2 months easy, maybe Feb or so). Either way, I haven't played your Z in a while aside from that PvsZ on peaks where you went for mass roaches with infestors and I went 3wg expand


----------



## DoomDash

Either way you've played a macro Zerg, and there has been plenty of recent enough ones.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Either way you've played a macro Zerg, and there has been plenty of recent enough ones.


He's gold.. u SHOULD be beating him with all races







And what's all this talk about macro zerg? There's only three types of zergs, Macro, All-in and just plain BAD









Whatever, none of u macro zergs can withstand my cheese terran.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


He's gold.. u SHOULD be beating him with all races


Of course I do







.


----------



## Sangers_low

LOL 1/1/1 is so OP


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14505255*
> Either way you've played a macro Zerg, and there has been plenty of recent enough ones.


I should've explained what I meant by this:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14493865*
> Do I dare say that he's the first Zerg I've played that is a macro Zerg?


What I mean is on the ladder, not anyone from OCN or customs. On the ladder, you don't see many Zergs just make drones endlessly but some have pauses, etc.... so its a bit on the rarer side to see the former which is why I was kinda surprised with that specific Zerg's macro








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14505366*
> He's gold.. u SHOULD be beating him with all races
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what's all this talk about macro zerg? There's only three types of zergs, Macro, All-in and just plain BAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, none of u macro zergs can withstand my cheese terran.


hey hey, I'm still here







Either way, my macro could still use a lot of work but at least I could hold my own for a while before crumbling. I think doom would know what I mean(PTR, PvsT game, think back).


----------



## QuadDamage

I need to work on my hot keys and injects but I think custom and just playing 1v1 will get you better, I don't ladder much cuz I hate to lose lol, I don't mind in custom. I hate custom sometimes people tend to just rush me and I hold it off and they rage and leave


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14489769*
> Doom, do you think you could maybe coach me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not I understand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting there.


Do you watch day9's daily? If not already, it would be a good place to start


----------



## Fortunex

You can get through bronze/silver/gold on nearly pure macro alone. There's a replay pack around of someone who did absolutely nothing but macro, build up an army of stalkers, and attack-move them into the enemy base/army, and climbed from bronze to platinum on that alone.

Once you get your macro down you can roll people with just sheer numbers. If you watch the pros play, they're maxed out (200/200) like 15-16 minutes into their games.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14508921*
> You can get through bronze/silver/gold on nearly pure macro alone. There's a replay pack around of someone who did absolutely nothing but macro, build up an army of stalkers, and attack-move them into the enemy base/army, and climbed from bronze to platinum on that alone.
> 
> Once you get your macro down you can roll people with just sheer numbers. If you watch the pros play, they're maxed out (200/200) like 15-16 minutes into their games.


Only zergs can max out in 15min lol, and u need a relatively quick third as well. But I agree with the macro bit. Mechanics can push u to plat/diamond, but so can cheese


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;14508687*
> Do you watch day9's daily? If not already, it would be a good place to start


I have never watched day 9 ROFL Mainly because his commentating in major tournament just screams ignorant tbh







His mistakes and misinformed rant in MLG were atrocious


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14509077*
> I have never watched day 9 ROFL Mainly because his commentating in major tournament just screams ignorant tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His mistakes and misinformed rant in MLG were atrocious


Not sure if serious...


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14509160*
> Not sure if serious...


I am dead serious. Most american commentators seriously lack knowledge in european and korean scene, and in strategical aspects as well. Well to be fair, it's not just the commentators, but players as well. Players in america are pretty oblivious of the different styles in different regions. See the most recent MLG's herrion use.


----------



## DoomDash

Could be worse *cough totalbiscuit cough*.


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14509211*
> I am dead serious. Most american commentators seriously lack knowledge in european and korean scene, and in strategical aspects as well. Well to be fair, it's not just the commentators, but players as well. Players in america are pretty oblivious of the different styles in different regions. See the most recent MLG's herrion use.


Day9's game knowledge isn't up there with top players, I'll give you that. But the same can be said about any commentator, including Artosis. There's a certain tradeoff in being a professional commentator, and that is that you don't get to play as much. But calling him ignorant is just dishonest. He's probably still a GM level player, which is not surprising considering he was the best NA Broodwar player for a long time.

And about american players being oblivious of different styles, well that goes both ways. Korean players are also largely oblivious of EU and NA styles, but they don't care because they're just better and win anyway.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14509403*
> Could be worse *cough totalbiscuit cough*.


*ROFLMAO*

I still think djWheat is worse tho


----------



## DoomDash

Obviously Tastetosis is up to date with the Korean trends







.

Honestly I enjoy a large variety of casters, even totalbiscuit. Some offer very little to the depth of SCII, but they do great play by plays. I like to have one good play by player, and one knowledgable guy by his side. I think the best combo is obv tastetosis.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14509425*
> Day9's game knowledge isn't up there with top players, I'll give you that. But the same can be said about any commentator, including Artosis. There's a certain tradeoff in being a professional commentator, and that is that you don't get to play as much. But calling him ignorant is just dishonest. He's probably still a GM level player, which is not surprising considering he was the best NA Broodwar player for a long time.
> 
> And about american players being oblivious of different styles, well that goes both ways. Korean players are also largely oblivious of EU and NA styles, but they don't care because they're just better and win anyway.


Artosis is far better in terms of game knowledge, but I don't love his bias







Still I guess it spices up the scene for some people








And by ignorant, i was referring to their knowledge in the korean scene, which they NEED to study in order to compete. Their strategic part of commentating is shaky as well, especially when talking about maps. eg TDA And it's just blatantly offensive when they get simple facts wrong.

While korean players are obviously light years ahead, I think that if American players actually studied their play properly, we'd see better results in tourneys due to the sniping factor, and the lack of knowledge demonstrated from the commentators just reflects the players' unawareness to KR and EU.


----------



## Sangers_low

Holy Mother of GOD...


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14509519*
> Artosis is far better in terms of game knowledge, but I don't love his bias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still I guess it spices up the scene for some people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by ignorant, i was referring to their knowledge in the korean scene, which they NEED to study in order to compete. Their strategic part of commentating is shaky as well, especially when talking about maps. eg TDA And it's just blatantly offensive when they get simple facts wrong.
> 
> While korean players are obviously light years ahead, I think that if American players actually studied their play properly, we'd see better results in tourneys due to the sniping factor, and the lack of knowledge demonstrated from the commentators just reflects the players' unawareness to KR and EU.


Good points, I mostly agree. Day has mostly been casting foreign tournaments so far so his knowledge regarding the Korean scene specifically is indeed limited









However, we're seeing a lot of Koreans entering foreign tournaments so I hope the styles start converging soon and commentators getting better as a result.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14509077*
> I have never watched day 9 ROFL Mainly because his commentating in major tournament just screams ignorant tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His mistakes and misinformed rant in MLG were atrocious


The guy's just trying to get out of bronze right now, not make masters







Even though day9 may not be up to the most recent strats in the EU/KR scene, his advice about basic gameplay is still solid.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14502443*
> Doom is there anything else you can recommend? I just want to get out of Bronze ...


I'm only gold, so take this w/ a pinch of salt. But if you really want to just get out of Bronze right now, stick with one race, pick a solid strat for each matchup, and just play a lot. It's not viable if you want to constantly improve, but it does get you out of bronze.

Or if you have a friend who's better than you, you can just play w/ him. I have a Masters friend that I play 2v2 with, and we always go on skype when we play. And in the game he'd tell me to do this or that and I've picked up a lot of things from him. Like often he'll tell me to move out and my first reaction would be "whaa?







" and he'll be like "it's okay they can't do anything to us right now", and he'd be right 8/10 times.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;14509943*
> The guy's just trying to get out of bronze right now, not make masters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though day9 may not be up to the most recent strats in the EU/KR scene, his advice about basic gameplay is still solid.
> 
> I'm only gold, so take this w/ a pinch of salt. But if you really want to just get out of Bronze right now, stick with one race, pick a solid strat for each matchup, and just play a lot. It's not viable if you want to constantly improve, but it does get you out of bronze.
> 
> Or if you have a friend who's better than you, you can just play w/ him. I have a Masters friend that I play 2v2 with, and we always go on skype when we play. And in the game he'd tell me to do this or that and I've picked up a lot of things from him. Like often he'll tell me to move out and my first reaction would be "whaa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " and he'll be like "it's okay they can't do anything to us right now", and he'd be right 8/10 times.


The dude's terran right?

TvT : Herrion tank.
TvZ : Herrion tank rine, start with reactor helion expand.
TvP : 1/1/1 with the banshee focus variation, without cloak.

Stick with this, work on ur mechanics, ur masters in no time


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;14508687*
> Do you watch day9's daily? If not already, it would be a good place to start


Are they really DAILY? Like everyday?

BTW, Sangers... what is a Herrion??









I do agree that all American casters could have more knowledge but they do have some good words. There are some casters who don't know much about the game at all (djwheat, totalbuiscut), but they are fun to watch. Thats why people love them. I think Day9 and Tastosis have the best things to say about StarCraft game.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Are they really DAILY? Like everyday?



Quote:



The dude's terran right?

TvT : Herrion tank.
TvZ : Herrion tank rine, start with reactor helion expand.
TvP : 1/1/1 with the banshee focus variation, without cloak.

Stick with this, work on ur mechanics, ur masters in no time


U understand all of above right?


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


U understand all of above right?










Yeah, I've also been doing a 2rax expo rax fact -> tank play recently with lots of mauraders vP.


----------



## foxhaze

Anyone who thinks day9 is a bad caster has not spent much time listening to tournaments cast by Husky, HD, Catspajamas, Painuser, Gretorp, Incontrol, Chill, MrBitter, or any of the even worse casters that somehow still get to talk on top of good games. These guys spend half of each game wasting time with small talk, they don't have any understanding of game flow or strategy, they give bad players way too much credit, and if day9 could conceivably cast every tournament that these morons get involved in, I wouldn't mind one bit.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Yeah, I've also been doing a 2rax expo rax fact -> tank play recently with lots of mauraders vP.


Let me explain step by step









TvT : Herrion tank.
Mech play that's standard these days. From my understanding, a lot of AM players are still pretty bad with this, so getting the hang of this will help u a lot in this matchup. It's not that hard as bio too, imho. Either start with FE, Banshee or BF helions and build 2 more factories later with adding vikings and ravens. U should learn a bit more about this from other players or/and vods.

TvZ : Herrion tank rine, start with reactor helion expand.
U start with 12rax, gas factory, and reactor on rax. Switch it with the factory when it finishes. Pump helions, and build CC after the 2 helions. should be before 5min. Research blue flames and going for drop after bf can hurt the zerg real bad. Pump rines, tanks and helions, obviously







Practise running the rines away from banelings, focusing tank fire on banelings. Build turrets at bit after 10 min or when u scan the spire. Against infestor ling play, get faster third, and mix more herrions

TvP : 1/1/1 with the banshee focus variation, without cloak.
rax, gas, factory, reactor, gas, starport with factory techlab switch. Keep pumping banshees, rines and tank. Upgrade seige mode at like 8 min+ and push out at 9-10min with 10+ of ur scvs.

Stick with this, work on ur mechanics, ur masters in no time


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foxhaze;14510178*
> Anyone who thinks day9 is a bad caster has not spent much time listening to tournaments cast by Husky, HD, Catspajamas, Painuser, Gretorp, Incontrol, Chill, MrBitter, or any of the even worse casters that somehow still get to talk on top of good games. These guys spend half of each game wasting time with small talk, they don't have any understanding of game flow or strategy, they give bad players way too much credit, and if day9 could conceivably cast every tournament that these morons get involved in, I wouldn't mind one bit.


LOL I was measuring him from my expectations/standards







All of above are pretty bad as well, but that just further proves my point of american casters needing to step up.


----------



## foxhaze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14510222*
> LOL I was measuring him from my expectations/standards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of above are pretty bad as well, but that just further proves my point of american casters needing to step up.


Can't argue with that. I've liked just about every European caster I've heard: Rotterdam, Apollo, Take, TotalBiscuit on occasion. They spend less time trying to make themselves look smart and more time talking about the games, what people are doing, and sometimes they even go as far as to suggest bad players are bad.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14510189*
> Let me explain step by step
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TvT : Herrion tank.
> Mech play that's standard these days. From my understanding, a lot of AM players are still pretty bad with this, so getting the hang of this will help u a lot in this matchup. It's not that hard as bio too, imho. Either start with FE, Banshee or BF helions and build 2 more factories later with adding vikings and ravens. U should learn a bit more about this from other players or/and vods.
> 
> TvZ : Herrion tank rine, start with reactor helion expand.
> U start with 12rax, gas factory, and reactor on rax. Switch it with the factory when it finishes. Pump helions, and build CC after the 2 helions. should be before 5min. Research blue flames and going for drop after bf can hurt the zerg real bad. Pump rines, tanks and helions, obviously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Practise running the rines away from banelings, focusing tank fire on banelings. Build turrets at bit after 10 min or when u scan the spire. Against infestor ling play, get faster third, and mix more herrions
> 
> TvP : 1/1/1 with the banshee focus variation, without cloak.
> rax, gas, factory, reactor, gas, starport with factory techlab switch. Keep pumping banshees, rines and tank. Upgrade seige mode at like 8 min+ and push out at 9-10min with 10+ of ur scvs.
> 
> Stick with this, work on ur mechanics, ur masters in no time


Any advice for a noob protoss









*Edit: not including 4gate, and switching races lol


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14510222*
> LOL I was measuring him from my expectations/standards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of above are pretty bad as well, but that just further proves my point of american casters needing to step up.


Have you watched some of the code A casters, Its terrible. yesterday they were talking about mentos and Diet coke, and not to eat them at the same time because its explosive( which is wrong unless you down a gallon of diet coke then swallow the mentos whole in which case you deserve the gastric distress), I mean really. In the hour or two i watched i heard about 20minutes of actual play by play...... Where a caster is from doesn't make a huge difference, you talk about oh the don't know X style of play. It becomes less and less about them having to know every single build and can textbook out everything that would get boring. If you know what is coming how can you get excited. I think most caster are way better in pairs, lone cast can be pretty stale.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Have you watched some of the code A casters, Its terrible. yesterday they were talking about mentos and Diet coke, and not to eat them at the same time because its explosive( which is wrong unless you down a gallon of diet coke then swallow the mentos whole in which case you deserve the gastric distress), I mean really. In the hour or two i watched i heard about 20minutes of actual play by play...... Where a caster is from doesn't make a huge difference, you talk about oh the don't know X style of play. It becomes less and less about them having to know every single build and can textbook out everything that would get boring. If you know what is coming how can you get excited. I think most caster are way better in pairs, lone cast can be pretty stale.


Majority of the casters are bad is pretty much what I said O_O. And most of them just happens to be american.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Any advice for a noob protoss









*Edit: not including 4gate, and switching races lol


3-3 Void Rays asap.

Forge FEs work really well too. I know it says vZ only but it works really well all-around. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...sion_(vs._Zerg)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Any advice for a noob protoss









*Edit: not including 4gate, and switching races lol


U should learn 4 gate lol. 
For toss, it's kinda hard atm, and unlike terran, u do need to think about more than just one build per race









Some basics first







In maps like Taldarim Altar, u need to go 4gate. I know defensive 4 gates tends to be better, but I personally prefer being aggressive. Use the close mineral patch trick to increase income. Save chrono boost, which will give u 90+ energy when the core finishes. Do these and ur warp time will be considerably quicker. Also, just shove the pylons in







If u put 2 pylons, 1 or 2 stalker can't get kill it, so u'll still warp in units.

Defensive 4 gates is where u get 22 probes and build a quicker pylon. Delay or opponents with sentries, and make sure that they don't build a pylon nearby.

Against zerg, the basic concept is high templars against infestor builds, robo builds against Roach hydra. For a build, my personal go-to build is: 
Forge FE, nexus at 18, one cannon, 2 gas at 20, core, cb on warp gate 3 times, attack upgrade, add 5 gates, 2 gas, warp 6 zealots, and push with +1 zealots, add twilight council, blink, robo for observer.
Timings are at around 7 min, 5 gateways should finish, 9min twilight, and take a third before 13min.

My knowledge in tvp is not that good, but against 1/1/1(usually when u see a gas and only one rax), most widespread counter is, 1gate expo, 5gate robo, pump a lotta units, and when u engage, spread out ur forces and MAKE SURE ur immortals focus down tanks. Example of this is XNC where u have two entrances to ur natural. Flank ur immortals and hit the tanks from behind, and make sure ur not left with useless zealots and immortals when there are 3 banshees left. 
6 gate pressures are good way to punish an idiotic terran with less than 3 bunkers









Feel free to ask me more questions


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


3-3 Void Rays asap.

Forge FEs work really well too. I know it says vZ only but it works really well all-around. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...sion_(vs._Zerg)


Forge FE leaves you open to fast blink stalkers with hallucinate/obs/dropship or robo


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Forge FE leaves you open to fast blink stalkers with hallucinate/obs/dropship or robo


This. Sorry, I actually don't play toss but my friend does this for almost every game. Worth a try though.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


This. Sorry, I actually don't play toss but my friend does this for almost every game. Worth a try though.


Hahaha, u gotta be crazy to do a FFE in a PvP








However, in tvp, unless ur opponent does a 2+rax I could see it working out


----------



## Sauce Boss

WELL I DONT PLAY TAWS!









Also, what do I do if the opponent has turrets/cannons/spine crawlers read to deny my drop?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


WELL I DONT PLAY TAWS!









Also, what do I do if the opponent has turrets/cannons/spine crawlers read to deny my drop?


Shesh Kill them, Kill them ALL


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


U should learn 4 gate lol. 
For toss, it's kinda hard atm, and unlike terran, u do need to think about more than just one build per race









Some basics first







In maps like Taldarim Altar, u need to go 4gate. I know defensive 4 gates tends to be better, but I personally prefer being aggressive. Use the close mineral patch trick to increase income. Save chrono boost, which will give u 90+ energy when the core finishes. Do these and ur warp time will be considerably quicker. Also, just shove the pylons in







If u put 2 pylons, 1 or 2 stalker can't get kill it, so u'll still warp in units.

Defensive 4 gates is where u get 22 probes and build a quicker pylon. Delay or opponents with sentries, and make sure that they don't build a pylon nearby.

Against zerg, the basic concept is high templars against infestor builds, robo builds against Roach hydra. For a build, my personal go-to build is: 
Forge FE, nexus at 18, one cannon, 2 gas at 20, core, cb on warp gate 3 times, attack upgrade, add 5 gates, 2 gas, warp 6 zealots, and push with +1 zealots, add twilight council, blink, robo for observer.
Timings are at around 7 min, 5 gateways should finish, 9min twilight, and take a third before 13min.

My knowledge in tvp is not that good, but against 1/1/1(usually when u see a gas and only one rax), most widespread counter is, 1gate expo, 5gate robo, pump a lotta units, and when u engage, spread out ur forces and MAKE SURE ur immortals focus down tanks. Example of this is XNC where u have two entrances to ur natural. Flank ur immortals and hit the tanks from behind, and make sure ur not left with useless zealots and immortals when there are 3 banshees left. 
6 gate pressures are good way to punish an idiotic terran with less than 3 bunkers









Feel free to ask me more questions










Lol, I wouldn't actually recommend any of this builds to a "noob protoss" except a 4gate.









FFE in PvZ requires good scouting to not die straight away to nydus/roach all-in/bling bust, and ability to pressure to not let zerg just max expand and drone for 10 minutes. 1 gate FE in PvT is also difficult in lower levels where most popular terran builds are 3-4 rax or banshee rushes. Also it is quite possible to have 1 build per matchup at least till higher leagues:

PvP: 4 gate on maps with wide ramp, 10 gate - 2 gate robo (day9/tyler's style) on all others into expo or 2 colossus + 4 gate push.

PvZ: 3 gate expand with sentries. It's not optimal, but still safer than FFE. Alternatively 1 gate expand MC style, but it relies on rather tight timings.

PvT: 2/3 gate robo, expo, obs, robo bay, + 2/3 gates and 1/2 forges.

All of these builds get observer pretty quickly and allow safe and reactive play which is preferred at lower levels over relying on timing attacks.

Finally, at least from my experience and high level players I speak with, high templars are not really a good answer to infestors, since you can never get a feedback unless zerg just runs their full-energy infestors into your HTs. They just don't work. The only thing that can actually work are blink stalkers added to archon speed zealot army. At the same time archon speed zealot fails miserably to everything but infestor speedling.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, I wouldn't actually recommend any of this builds to a "noob protoss" except a 4gate.









FFE in PvZ requires good scouting to not die straight away to nydus/roach all-in/bling bust, and ability to pressure to not let zerg just max expand and drone for 10 minutes. 1 gate FE in PvT is also difficult in lower levels where most popular terran builds are 3-4 rax or banshee rushes. Also it is quite possible to have 1 build per matchup at least till higher leagues:

PvP: 4 gate on maps with wide ramp, 10 gate - 2 gate robo (day9/tyler's style) on all others into expo or 2 colossus + 4 gate push.

PvZ: 3 gate expand with sentries. It's not optimal, but still safer than FFE. Alternatively 1 gate expand MC style, but it relies on rather tight timings.

PvT: 2/3 gate robo, expo, obs, robo bay, + 2/3 gates and 1/2 forges.

All of these builds get observer pretty quickly and allow safe and reactive play which is preferred at lower levels over relying on timing attacks.

Finally, at least from my experience and high level players I speak with, high templars are not really a good answer to infestors, since you can never get a feedback unless zerg just runs their full-energy infestors into your HTs. They just don't work. The only thing that can actually work are blink stalkers added to archon speed zealot army. At the same time archon speed zealot fails miserably to everything but infestor speedling.










Haha, I think ur right. Well to be fair, I mainly play on KR ladder and was 1.4k m in kr last season. so... 

I'd still like to add a bit more tho







Try this instead









PvP: 4 gate with the faster warp gate time thingy i mentioned before with 2 pylon near the choke so u can warp zealots on the top. Work on your focus firing obviously









PvT: 9 gate proxy







You can either go with warping 2 gateways in t's main or one gateway with core in ur base where u pump stalkers afterwards.

PvZ: Cannon rush -> fast voids.

Good enough probo?


----------



## Fortunex

So how do you counter marine/marauder/tank pushes as Zerg? This guy just leapfrogged his tanks forward into my natural, and I couldn't do anything about it. Zerglings/Banelings die long before getting even close to them, mutas get owned by Marines, any other ground units get owned by tanks.


----------



## DoomDash

More lings and banelings than you had, and muta for picking off any stragglers/ stalling as long as possible to make that happen.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


So how do you counter marine/marauder/tank pushes as Zerg? This guy just leapfrogged his tanks forward into my natural, and I couldn't do anything about it. Zerglings/Banelings die long before getting even close to them, mutas get owned by Marines, any other ground units get owned by tanks.


I think that was me







Are you bronze? I do that all of the time.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


So how do you counter marine/marauder/tank pushes as Zerg? This guy just leapfrogged his tanks forward into my natural, and I couldn't do anything about it. Zerglings/Banelings die long before getting even close to them, mutas get owned by Marines, any other ground units get owned by tanks.


Depends on the timing







Can u tell me when the push came? 9 min? 12 min? Oh and the map as well


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


I think that was me







Are you bronze? I do that all of the time.


Nope, I'm Silver. And Terrans do it all the time, seems like one of their 2 strategies vs Zerg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Depends on the timing







Can u tell me when the push came? 9 min? 12 min? Oh and the map as well


No clue, the timing didn't bother me, it was that I felt helpless while he leapfrogged his tanks forward and took my natural. Guess I just need more lings.


----------



## DoomDash

Upgrades are also key vs Terran, and macro hatches since a large majority of your army will be larva heavy lings.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Nope, I'm Silver. And Terrans do it all the time, seems like one of their 2 strategies vs Zerg

No clue, the timing didn't bother me, it was that I felt helpless while he leapfrogged his tanks forward and took my natural. Guess I just need more lings.


Umm, okay, i'll just tell u the basics of going against rine tank with Muta bling.

1. Map control: Know terran's forces' size at all times, know when he moves out, and don't let him use medivacs.
2. Muta use: Connects with No.1 Use mutas to hold him back. Pick his workers, buildings, tanks etc. Harass Harass Harass
3. Counter: When terran tries to move, use mutaling and attack his expansion. If terran continues with his advance, he'll take damage, if he doesn't, u've earned more time to pump bling. Zerg's army's advantage is its mobility, u can devastate his expo and ur mutaling can still comeback and join the fight in ur natural or w/e
4. Burrowed Banelings: Very important to master this. put borrowed banlings in places that he's gonna go. It doesn't matter if u hit jackpot and kill all is rines. He needs to waste scans + he'll be more cautious and etc. Also, when u counter with mutaling, burrow some banes infront of his natural or something, so when rines come stimming, u'll likely do some damage.

In my opinion, in smaller maps, infestorling play is better, but in larger maps muta bling is the way to go. Just learn to avoid the main army and counter. Use burrow well, and use ur mutas.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=252715


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=252715


Wow that's huge







I wonder who's the coach and which team is he gonna join


----------



## DoomDash

I just want Flash and Jaedong over already, and hopefully the BW fans to follow.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I just want Flash and Jaedong over already, and hopefully the BW fans to follow.


Blasphemy







How Dare you!!!

Also, i don't think that'd be good for the western scene either. Considering how well MVP is doing, I'm scared to see the "actual" good pros in sc1


----------



## Sauce Boss

I've been winning games constantly, but I'm still in Bronze. I'm using 2rax FE late harass. Basically 2 rax (one with tech and one with react) pump 2 marines 2 mauraders, @400 CC. Then pump marines and mauraders and then tech up to tanks w/ a factory. Research siege tech and get ~2 tanks and when siege tech finishes, push around 70ish. While pushing I macro up some more units and tech with starport and build some meds. If push fails (9/10 it doesn't) macro up more units and tech lab on port. Depending on scouting info, tech to what becomes necessary.


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Blasphemy







How Dare you!!!

Also, i don't think that'd be good for the western scene either. Considering how well MVP is doing, I'm scared to see the "actual" good pros in sc1


Being good @ BW doesnt translate to being good @ SC2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThumperSD*


Being good @ BW doesnt translate to being good @ SC2


Certainly helps.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14507852*
> I need to work on my hot keys and injects but I think custom and just playing 1v1 will get you better, I don't ladder much cuz I hate to lose lol, I don't mind in custom. I hate custom sometimes people tend to just rush me and I hold it off and they rage and leave


Try laddering with some music, it can work wonders








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14509077*
> I have never watched day 9 ROFL Mainly because his commentating in major tournament just screams ignorant tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His mistakes and misinformed rant in MLG were atrocious


hehe, I was "forced" into watching one episode but haven't seen any since








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14514009*
> Nope, I'm Silver. And Terrans do it all the time, seems like one of their 2 strategies vs Zerg
> 
> No clue, the timing didn't bother me, it was that I felt helpless while he leapfrogged his tanks forward and took my natural. Guess I just need more lings.


More lings and as doom mentioned, use the mutas to pick off units as much as possible. MMT is strong but its immobile so abuse Z's mobility and crazy army production








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14514288*
> Blasphemy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Dare you!!!
> 
> Also, i don't think that'd be good for the western scene either. Considering how well MVP is doing, I'm scared to see the "actual" good pros in sc1


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThumperSD;14515234*
> Being good @ BW doesnt translate to being good @ SC2


^^
THIS.

It does certainly help but there are a lot of different aspects to the game and timings that BW pros have to get used to again, so, some skills carry over, others don't


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14516182*
> \
> ^^
> THIS.
> 
> It does certainly help but there are a lot of different aspects to the game and timings that BW pros have to get used to again, so, some skills carry over, others don't


-_-, more than 90% of the western scene's pros consist of former WC3 and BW players. And pretty much all of pro gamers have intimate experience with the mentioned rts games. MVP, Puma are the some of the few sc1 players who weren't completely washed up at their time of transition like july, nada and boxer, and see how strong they are.

U gotta be pretty idiotic to think Flash and Jaedong won't dominate with their multitasking, response time, mentality, micro, experience and etc. Macro is the only bit that won't matter as much, because SC2 macro is piss easy. But I doubt SKTBest would not be as good as the likes of MC.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


3-3 Void Rays asap.


Gets pwned by mass marines and stalkers...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


U should learn 4 gate lol. 
For toss, it's kinda hard atm, and unlike terran, u do need to think about more than just one build per race









...

Feel free to ask me more questions










Thanks for the awesome advice! 4 gate is the first thing I learned, that's how I got to Gold haha.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Lol, I wouldn't actually recommend any of this builds to a "noob protoss" except a 4gate.









Ha, well 4 gate is basically my default strat, so I'm trying to learn something new and work my way up to Plat hopefully.

But yea, I always have trouble against infestors, and mass colossi











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


So how do you counter marine/marauder/tank pushes as Zerg? This guy just leapfrogged his tanks forward into my natural, and I couldn't do anything about it. Zerglings/Banelings die long before getting even close to them, mutas get owned by Marines, any other ground units get owned by tanks.


I know a lot of people in this thread don't like day9, but I just saw his daily last night and the game he showed talks exactly about this.

It was #336 LiquidRet vs MouzThorzain. You can see the map control and zerg army mobility that the others are talking about above, and Liquid Ret wins with literally just slings/blings/mutas.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;14520475*
> Gets pwned by mass marines and stalkers...
> 
> Thanks for the awesome advice! 4 gate is the first thing I learned, that's how I got to Gold haha.
> 
> I know a lot of people in this thread don't like day9, but I just saw his daily last night and the game he showed talks exactly about this.
> 
> It was #336 LiquidRet vs MouzThorzain. You can see the map control and zerg army mobility that the others are talking about above, and Liquid Ret wins with literally just slings/blings/mutas.


I love Rets sling play. It makes me want to change to zerg. I love DayJ... what are you talking about?


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


I love Rets sling play. It makes me want to change to zerg. I love DayJ... what are you talking about?


Sangers and BigFan don't seem to be fans haha...


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Thanks for the awesome advice! 4 gate is the first thing I learned, that's how I got to Gold haha.


NP









Quote:



I know a lot of people in this thread don't like day9, but I just saw his daily last night and the game he showed talks exactly about this.

It was #336 LiquidRet vs MouzThorzain. You can see the map control and zerg army mobility that the others are talking about above, and Liquid Ret wins with literally just slings/blings/mutas.



Quote:



I love Rets sling play. It makes me want to change to zerg. I love DayJ... what are you talking about?


If u think Ret's good, check out MVPDongRaegu. His sling play in tvz is second to none and also, 90%+ of the koreans use mutaling bling as their primary composition in tvz


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


NP









If u think Ret's good, check out MVPDongRaegu. His sling play in tvz is second to none and also, 90%+ of the koreans use mutaling bling as their primary composition in tvz










yes, mutas are a PAIN.

How do I deal with proxys after scouting. Like I didn't see the proxy. 
I'm getting bored. I can't seem to get out of bronze... I've been winning allot of games too my win loss ratio is like 6/1. Is it possible for me to get out in a week?


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*   If u think Ret's good, check out MVPDongRaegu. His sling play in tvz is second to none and also, 90%+ of the koreans use mutaling bling as their primary composition in tvz







  
Man what happened to Julyzerg? I remember back in BW his Mutaling was unmatched. I remember there was one game where he just muta harrassed the snot out of Hwasin and made him look like a D- terran, and that was when Hwasin was on a hot TvZ streak









*Edit: found it, ODT 2006








  
 You Tube


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Man what happened to Julyzerg? I remember back in BW his Mutaling was unmatched. I remember there was one game where he just muta harrassed the snot out of Hwasin and made him look like a D- terran, and that was when Hwasin was on a hot TvZ streak










He's washed up, same situation as nada, boxer and etc. He's very lucky to be in Code S atm, but he'll still pwn foreigners easy like other koreans.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


He's washed up, same situation as nada, boxer and etc. He's very lucky to be in Code S atm, but he'll still pwn foreigners easy like other koreans.


Man, it's sad to see all these old legends being washed up


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3*


Man, it's sad to see all these old legends being washed up










Haha, it is, but they were washed up in the first place before they switched


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Any hotkeys link to download some pro config? I used them in wc3 and they rock cuz keys in the default version are just too mix up


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


Any hotkeys link to download some pro config? I used them in wc3 and they rock cuz keys in the default version are just too mix up


Progamers' hotkey configurations are pretty hard to get because it is not saved in replay like their control groups. Also, their hotkey+control group configs aren't always the most efficient because a lot of them have fitted them to fit their old habits from BW or WC3, and people have different preferences

What race did u decide on? I could recommend u some zerg ones. Most of them are based on the queen inject thing tho.


----------



## EonShiKeno

Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know about my strategy videos I do on my youtube channel. I try to put a lot of production value into them. Most of my videos are just pro commentaries, but I do have quite a few Tutorial videos.

Here are the links to my three different playlists. One for each race.

Protoss:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL224AAF3BFBB1C0D1

Terran:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77A94A15D5DB070A

Zerg:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD81863C41AAAE230

If you ever want to chat or play some team games I am always on the NA server in chat room EON. Thanks,


----------



## nitric0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know about my strategy videos I do on my youtube channel. I try to put a lot of production value into them. Most of my videos are just pro commentaries, but I do have quite a few Tutorial videos.

Here are the links to my three different playlists. One for each race.

Protoss:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL224AAF3BFBB1C0D1

Terran:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77A94A15D5DB070A

Zerg:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD81863C41AAAE230

If you ever want to chat or play some team games I am always on the NA server in chat room EON. Thanks,


Subbed


----------



## xShishy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know about my strategy videos I do on my youtube channel. I try to put a lot of production value into them. Most of my videos are just pro commentaries, but I do have quite a few Tutorial videos.

Here are the links to my three different playlists. One for each race.

Protoss:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL224AAF3BFBB1C0D1

Terran:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77A94A15D5DB070A

Zerg:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD81863C41AAAE230

If you ever want to chat or play some team games I am always on the NA server in chat room EON. Thanks,


You have a really nice voice for that, combined with very good insight


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know about my strategy videos I do on my youtube channel. I try to put a lot of production value into them. Most of my videos are just pro commentaries, but I do have quite a few Tutorial videos.

Here are the links to my three different playlists. One for each race.

Protoss:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL224AAF3BFBB1C0D1

Terran:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77A94A15D5DB070A

Zerg:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD81863C41AAAE230

If you ever want to chat or play some team games I am always on the NA server in chat room EON. Thanks,


Builds are kinda outdated, but very good effort nonetheless







gj


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know about my strategy videos I do on my youtube channel. I try to put a lot of production value into them. Most of my videos are just pro commentaries, but I do have quite a few Tutorial videos.

Here are the links to my three different playlists. One for each race.

Protoss:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL224AAF3BFBB1C0D1

Terran:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77A94A15D5DB070A

Zerg:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD81863C41AAAE230

If you ever want to chat or play some team games I am always on the NA server in chat room EON. Thanks,


Got any tips for a terran player that is stuck playing bronze players but should be out of bronze....


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14517754*
> -_-, more than 90% of the western scene's pros consist of former WC3 and BW players. And pretty much all of pro gamers have intimate experience with the mentioned rts games. MVP, Puma are the some of the few sc1 players who weren't completely washed up at their time of transition like july, nada and boxer, and see how strong they are.
> 
> U gotta be pretty idiotic to think Flash and Jaedong won't dominate with their multitasking, response time, mentality, micro, experience and etc. Macro is the only bit that won't matter as much, because SC2 macro is piss easy. But I doubt SKTBest would not be as good as the likes of MC.


Thing is, I'm not saying that they won't be really good but I'm saying that there are a lot of changes that they have to get accustomed to in SCII in order to start dominating as in no more reavers, BFH, banshees, etc....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;14520955*
> Sangers and BigFan don't seem to be fans haha...


haha, not really, I'm fine with day9 but rather learn to play the game my own way









Edit:
Such a bad night for laddering, got rolled in 4 straight games. 2 TvsZ and 2 TvsP.
1st game: Dropped his main after his burrow roach attack failed but I did lose a decent portion of my army due to the surround but came out on top. Took out his main, decided to take out his exp and drones but then he had slings right under my medivacs so I tried to get my units out but the muta took them out. I tried to move out again but he had too many banes to micro against and with 2 tanks, it was a slaughterfest. Can't believe how much I messed this up especially considering I have several tanks in that drop I lost :/

2nd game: I exp after holding off some roach attack(maybe 7RR?). I macro, get a good MMMT army and the guy tries mass infested marines, so, I clean those up and walk into his base. Made the mistake of splitting my marines from my marauders+tanks, so, I get FG'd to death but take out a decent portion of slings+infestors. I start moving my marauders+tanks up the ramp and I get a lag spike, get surrounded, die and then he just goes mass slings and with his mutas cleans the rest of my tanks, marines and 2 thors -_-;

3rd game: Denies my 3rd exp with dts, takes his 2nd before mine and then takes a 3rd and 4th. I dropped his 3rd, take it out, but it didn't matter much. Next thing I know, I'm going up against a zealot+archon+carrier+mothership army with a heavy marauder+tank+medivac army. I manage to get some marines+vikings out and repel his attack using that+some turrets I put up but I get rolled in the next push since he tech switched to colossi.

4th game: I realize that he's going for an exp with sentries+zealots so I continue making marauders and research cs and stim. I check my stim and it should be almost done so I decide to engage before another wrap in happens and press t but nothing happens. Turns out my stim research was just about to finish so I got caught by ffs, retreated and tried to macro up. He goes mass zealots+sentries+some immortals, so, I get ghosts for emp, take out archon shields', etc... but he had too much. He was only on 2 bases when I last checked to my 3rd which I was trying to saturate slowly.

I ended up getting BM'd in game 2 as well XD


----------



## Sangers_low

An absolute MASSACRE in code a... I'm speechless


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14529083*
> An absolute MASSACRE in code a... I'm speechless


Give them another month.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14529105*
> Give them another month.


Yeah, it should help them a lot, but kinda disappointed t-zain won't be staying longer. But props to Naniwa and Sase for their commitment tho.









Also, did u watch the Boxer vs Leenock and Maka vs Dream series?. Pretty epic


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Yeah, it should help them a lot, but kinda disappointed t-zain won't be staying longer. But props to Naniwa and Sase for their commitment tho.









Also, did u watch the Boxer vs Leenock and Maka vs Dream series?. Pretty epic


Boxer Leenock was awesome. I was only able to watch the first game because I need season past for GSL. I cant watch them live because they're on at like 4 in the morning and because it doesn't work on my Mac.


----------



## poroboszcz

Wow, HuK is on fire. Over 20 wins in a row now.


----------



## BigFan

Finally won several games. Bonus pool @ 0 but I've dropped like 15 ranks









TvsZ as usual:

Gotta love it when you end up crushing someone given I doubt the feeling was mutual XD

TvsT, mass marines!!!!!

Sneaky opponent, good thing I caught him red handed.

TvsP, tanks+battlecrusiers rule. Battlecrusier operational!









I was able to get them out even though I wasn't technically ahead in worker supply or eco(maybe 5 more workers+an extra cc). Darn my raven though, I tried to stim my MM but realized that when you use it with MM, it gets priority, so, I almost got stormed to death and I think I did!









As for the game I lost, well, to keep things balanced. Here it is with all its glory









Best way to say it: Ultras, huh? Too bad I didn't get the memo XD

To whoever watches these, many thanks and to this anonymous person, how were my drops/harass especially the first TvsZ and the TvsP?







I'm starting to concentrate on drop/banshee harass a lot more, nothing more satisfying than double dropping a player and watching them panic


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ i Watch you bro! More then you will ever know lets 1v1 tonight bro

Quad-Damage kk

Cool story bro!


----------



## DoomDash

Who is ZixacunX on our sc2 division?


----------



## Kreeker

Does the game sometime "stutter" even when you aren't receiving warnings that someone is slowing the game down?


----------



## EonShiKeno

Thanks for the comments on my channel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14524999*
> Got any tips for a terran player that is stuck playing bronze players but should be out of bronze....


Keep playing and eventually you will get promoted. Being a better Starcraft 2 player doesn't happen over night. It's weeks and months of effort added up.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno;14538368*
> Thanks for the comments on my channel.
> 
> Keep playing and eventually you will get promoted. Being a better Starcraft 2 player doesn't happen over night. It's weeks and months of effort added up.


Thanks







I've started playing higher level bronze players, silver players soon


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14538390*
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've started playing higher level bronze players, silver players soon


nice, just keep at it. With more wins, your MMR goes up and eventually you'll hit a plateau and that's when you get promoted. This of course assumes you aren't Huk















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14536860*
> ^^ i Watch you bro! More then you will ever know lets 1v1 tonight bro
> 
> Quad-Damage kk
> 
> Cool story bro!


Thanks bro







Ya, its getting hard to know who watches what XD I just try to post any entertaining replays especially TvsZ ones where BLs, ultras, etc.... were used and due to the micro needed. We should 1vs1 sometime, maybe a bit later tonight when I get on








I do find it funny that I get more dls for games I've lost








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14536935*
> Who is ZixacunX on our sc2 division?


No clue, why?


----------



## DoomDash

Because he is a mid-low masters that just popped up on list and I'm curious.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Because he is a mid-low masters that just popped up on list and I'm curious.


Hey can I give a shot at playing you even though I'm high bronze







?

Just for fun? (I wont mass marine







)


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kreeker*


Does the game sometime "stutter" even when you aren't receiving warnings that someone is slowing the game down?


Yep.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14540057*
> Hey can I give a shot at playing you even though I'm high bronze
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Just for fun? (I wont mass marine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Yeah at some point.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Yeah at some point.


i.e. sometime in the early morning hours(3+ am)


----------



## DoomDash

As if NP wasn't good enough.

  
 You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14540498*
> As if NP wasn't good enough.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNB9IJ5BaiE


ouch, but, how long does the extra duration last? Seems quick enough but i guess having the thor out of commission for an extra 2-3 sec makes a difference in a large battle due to their dps


----------



## DoomDash

2-3 sec is like 120 damage for a thor heh.


----------



## QuadDamage

GG tonight with Bigfan keep up the good work bro!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


2-3 sec is like 120 damage for a thor heh.


true true, which is why I said its still makes a difference









Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


GG tonight with Bigfan keep up the good work bro!


Thanks Quad, awesome games as well. Gotta work on OL spread though(much easier to catch drops) as well as being a lot safer but otherwise, you had me microing XD Cross positions are pretty difficult for me against Z but getting there. Hopefully, we can get some more games in tommorrow night. I can show you my PvsZ and vice versa


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Thanks







I've started playing higher level bronze players, silver players soon










when you regularly start hitting silver players while still in bronze then thats generally a sign your mmr is high enough that you should be in silver, but that the system isnt yet certain it is not a a few lucky games, looking at my history generally my promotion to a new division comes after 10 or so games at that stage where i'm winning at least 50/50.

this appears to be similarly true for demotion, I just went back down to plat, not playing for a couple of weeks screws me over so hard in this game >< lost my placement and then dropped 4 more games in a row to cheese that if i was playing properly I should have easily spotted and crushed :'( meh that what you get for playing like a bronze leaguer in diamond ><

may be time to decide on a race and stick with is random doesn't really help me I guess. torn between P and Z simply so i never ever have to play a tvt again dislike all the mirrors but i find tvt by far the worst seems to be the only MU i cant win largely through just having better macro than them, alternatively I could learn how to micro a bit better


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


As if NP wasn't good enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNB9IJ5BaiE


If someone has the time to type /dance during a fight, they deserve to disable your Thor for an extra few seconds imo.


----------



## clip+

So I was watching gom yesterday and saw thorzain vs yugioh. This thorzain dood is soo good. Today's teammatches he's doing good, but you can just see mistakes in his game that makes him still a while off from top gamers.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


So I was watching gom yesterday and saw thorzain vs yugioh. This thorzain dood is soo good. Today's teammatches he's doing good, but you can just see mistakes in his game that makes him still a while off from top gamers.


He 3 killed MVP, but yeah, he's no-way near top tier. He's one of foreigner's best tho


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


He 3 killed MVP, but yeah, he's no-way near top tier. He's one of foreigner's best tho


His TvP is top-tier IMO. His other match-ups need a little work, but that TvP is so good.

Edit: He does use Ghosts like a boss in TvZ though now that I think about it.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


when you regularly start hitting silver players while still in bronze then thats generally a sign your mmr is high enough that you should be in silver, but that the system isnt yet certain it is not a a few lucky games, looking at my history generally my promotion to a new division comes after 10 or so games at that stage where i'm winning at least 50/50.

this appears to be similarly true for demotion, I just went back down to plat, not playing for a couple of weeks screws me over so hard in this game >< lost my placement and then dropped 4 more games in a row to cheese that if i was playing properly I should have easily spotted and crushed :'( meh that what you get for playing like a bronze leaguer in diamond ><

may be time to decide on a race and stick with is random doesn't really help me I guess. torn between P and Z simply so i never ever have to play a tvt again dislike all the mirrors but i find tvt by far the worst seems to be the only MU i cant win largely through just having better macro than them, alternatively I could learn how to micro a bit better










You sound like me, I like P and Z and not so much T, My terran is bronze league, so I cheese whenever I'm terran lol


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


You sound like me, I like P and Z and not so much T, My terran is bronze league, so I cheese whenever I'm terran lol


my tvz and tvp are both alright i just macro hard and push out on a 2-3 base timing based on what i scout/scan but tvt I suck so hard at positioning so I end up having to do 1 base fast pushes and lots of all ins, works ok at the level i play but I know that wont last forever and i'd rather not be reliant on a strat that basically consists of I hope my opponent kind of sucks


----------



## ronnin426850

Is it just me, or since the Starter Editing got out, terran is terribly underpowered? Zerg and Protoss own me on regular basis, and although I'm far from pro, I was never that bad..


----------



## Alex132

The cheese is strong in lower leageus, and the "play one game to get your placement" is utter crap.

Played my placement 1v1 game, guy instantly left the game. Got a score of like 0.01 :I
Bronze league rank 100... yep thanks Blizzard :I
Up to top 8 silver in about 8 games, but MY GOD THE CHEESE.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14541664*
> when you regularly start hitting silver players while still in bronze then thats generally a sign your mmr is high enough that you should be in silver, but that the system isnt yet certain it is not a a few lucky games, looking at my history generally my promotion to a new division comes after 10 or so games at that stage where i'm winning at least 50/50.
> 
> this appears to be similarly true for demotion, I just went back down to plat, not playing for a couple of weeks screws me over so hard in this game >< lost my placement and then dropped 4 more games in a row to cheese that if i was playing properly I should have easily spotted and crushed :'( meh that what you get for playing like a bronze leaguer in diamond ><
> 
> may be time to decide on a race and stick with is random doesn't really help me I guess. torn between P and Z simply so i never ever have to play a tvt again dislike all the mirrors but i find tvt by far the worst seems to be the only MU i cant win largely through just having better macro than them, alternatively I could learn how to micro a bit better


TvsT isn't really that bad, although I'll admit that ZvsZ can be more fun, PvsP I'm a bit more even about, hate less units in fights







I guess it really depends on what you enjoy, macro or micro. Z is obviously the macro race, making 30 drones at once is enjoyable







but P is pretty awesome with storms, blink, phoenixes, etc.... and does have more micro than Zerg







Terran is still the micro king IMO though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14544729*
> You sound like me, I like P and Z and not so much T, My terran is bronze league, so I cheese whenever I'm terran lol


haha, my T was bad and worse than my P/Z but its quickly becoming my best XD I would say my T is probably goldish now at least, since, I can play on even footing with a decent portion of my Z opponents and starting to find P/T games a bit nicer








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14546888*
> Is it just me, or since the Starter Editing got out, terran is terribly underpowered? Zerg and Protoss own me on regular basis, and although I'm far from pro, I was never that bad..


hmm, they got nerfed a bit but nothing extreme IMO. Late game Terran can still be pretty scary with good positioning but late game P is just T_T Late game Z is pretty powerful as well, infestors+BLs are even worse than the colossi deathball


----------



## BigFan

Just played probably my best TvsZ with drops and all:


I think I'll start doing battlereports with some of my replays. Some helps those who don't wanna watch the actual replay due to how fast you can scan them









Battlereport:
The game starts with the usual exchanges. My Z opponent decides to go for a 15 pool followed by a fast bane nest considering the map is Shakuras Plateau. He was likely worried about heavy marine pressure and thought that with a couple of banes, he'll at least be able to punish me if I try it.









I forgo pressure and decide to exp as fast as possible blocking my entrance with 3 rax incase of any bane busts.









My opponent scouting the 3 rax decides to exp as well and places slings+banes outside my base to determine when I move out. Since my exp was earlier than his, I have a slight eco lead shown by the supply difference.









Once my exp is set up and with the extra income, I start powering hardcore adding 2 more rax with a tech lab/reactor and 2 starports both with reactors.









In the meantime, my opponent is still making drones and taking his third base. His spire seems a bit late but it gave me the chance to reinforce my defenses with turrets incase of muta harass.









I decide that it's dropping time so I start loading medivacs with marines and try to double drop his 3rd as well as his main around the same time.









Dropping both at the same time, he's taken by surprise but manages to move his drones out of harm's way in his main ignoring his 3rd. I decide to take out some structures that will pose a problem later i.e. infestor pit and pool.

















He tries to get a surround with some slings+drones+queen but microing back causes him to flee until roaches join his ranks at which point I decide to lift off but my other drop has accomplished its purpose









































Less than 50 seconds later, I redrop, this time in his exp and main. He's quick to react losing only a couple of drones in the process. I decide to redrop his 3rd to clean up his extractors and meet some nice roaches who came to play

































At this point, I think I've done enough damage, so, I decide to move out. My rax+scans help me scout what's ahead and I decide to siege sieging past the 2 towers and start leap frogging tanks as fast as possible to prevent him from reinforcing his existing army.









He scouts the push and starts preparing by splitting up his roaches a bit to get a surround.









We engage with me stimming forward and then back into the tank link and stutter stepping during the rest of the fight. My forces clean his up convincingly as can be seen:

















Moving into his exp, I'm meet with a very small army of slings+banes yet still lost a couple of marines.









I sieze the opportunity this opportunity of lack of defense units and attack his exp with only marines then I take out some drones and his rebuilt third exp.

















Scouting his banes+BLs, I start moving back to his main to engage the rest of his army before the BLs are morphed. With a couple of stims and positioning, I'm able to deal with the banes and snipe his BLs before he's able to get a critical mass and with that, it's GG.









































Lovely BM at the end








Edit: Maybe next time I'll cut down on the screenies


----------



## Alex132

Aaaand that's why I dislike playing against T


----------



## clip+

Did you tell him about your sexual orientation in the beginning of the game?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;14543097*
> His TvP is top-tier IMO. His other match-ups need a little work, but that TvP is so good.
> 
> Edit: He does use Ghosts like a boss in TvZ though now that I think about it.


I don't think so. His control speed is slow. Things happening in other parts of the map sometimes seem oblivious to him. Without those fundamentals he just can't be top tier in any matchup.


----------



## CravinR1

I think i'm going to switch to T, all you need to do to get Masters is Marines + tanks + medivacs


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;14547757*
> Aaaand that's why I dislike playing against T


how so? I harassed the daylight out of him throughout the match(once I got medivacs) then I engaged his army and had the best composition IMO. Roaches+mutas have horrible dps(aside from the splash of mutas), that and I was 1/1 and was making more units as I was harassing. Looking at the replay, he wasn't making anything and was sitting back waiting on greater spire. Should've made slings or something to increase dps and conserve his gas for BLs








I dunno what race you play, but, TvsZ can be hard as hell if your Z opponent actually harasses you, gets upgrades and techs up while macroing. It's downright scary








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14547796*
> I think i'm going to switch to T, all you need to do to get Masters is Marines + tanks + medivacs


rofl, let's see you try that and see how well it works. I've had games where I've been crushed by my Z/P opponent and I've had games like the above where I crushed my opponents. Had that guy went mass mutas and harassed my base or double exp'd early on when I exp'd myself, this would've caused me a lot of issues. His OL spread needed work and he should've had more units than just slings when I dropped his base.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14547784*
> Did you tell him about your sexual orientation in the beginning of the game?


u serious?


----------



## QuadDamage

^ ^ i would of punished your base







good job!

THe zerg really needed infestors due to your mass marines you clumped them up as well could of been gg!


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14547796*
> I think i'm going to switch to T, all you need to do to get Masters is Marines + tanks + medivacs


True but if you can split them and avoid infestor and p balls you are set!


----------



## CravinR1

Terran has so much OP BS its ridiculous. You can't base race them (they'll lift off and use the OP mules to rebuild, whereas if you don't save probes and have enough for a nexus you're out)

So Marines are tech 1 unit that have range, tanks do ridiculous amounts of damage to ground, mass marines can take out 3x air unit costs with stim

Siege tanks are ridiculous at the amount of damage they do

Medivacs can transport and HEAL

Thors are impossible to kill in large numbers (only had success with 2x the number of HT and feedback then storms, and thats if they have energy)


----------



## DarkMasterMX

lol Terran requires a lot more than just A move at higher levels. I duno bout you but I play High diamond low end masters and my buddies who are about mid masters destroy me using Toss or Zerg. I think I only with 25% of the games against them.


----------



## QuadDamage

When I play vs Terran I got into crazy macro mode to stop on top of them, 3 or 4 base zerg keep them to 2 base u got EM BRO!


----------



## Sauce Boss

Its not that terran is OP, some people just haven't perfected there Z/P play. Terran is the easiest to learn because everyone learns it first.


----------



## BigFan

Nice to see some discussion but Terran is NOT OP. So much misinformation here though, it's just sad T_T
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14548130*
> ^ ^ i would of punished your base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good job!
> 
> THe zerg really needed infestors due to your mass marines you clumped them up as well could of been gg!


You're right, he should've harassed a lot more, not sure why he didn't go for more mutas since I had no thors out and he could've picked off my tanks leading to a roach+muta against marine battle. That and some banes would've been scary








As for infestors, the thing is, I took out his infestation pit in the first drop as he was researching the energy upgrade then his pool, so, he had to rebuild it and since I kept dropping, he was putting his gas into roaches to try and defend since marines are hard to take care of with just slings unless you get a surround








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkMasterMX;14548457*
> lol Terran requires a lot more than just A move at higher levels. I duno bout you but I play High diamond low end masters and my buddies who are about mid masters destroy me using Toss or Zerg. I think I only with 25% of the games against them.


Yep, TvsZ is brutal on both sides. With drops, you can kinda even things out but with spawn larvae, it's kinda ridiculous at how fast Z can pump out units







Having said that, I think the game is pretty balanced. Had my opponent went for more slings+banes and rebuilt his pit and FG'd some of my marines, I would've lost that game for sure considering I didn't do too good of a job splitting my marines but again, I knew he had no infestors because I took the pit out








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14548492*
> When I play vs Terran I got into crazy macro mode to stop on top of them, 3 or 4 base zerg keep them to 2 base u got EM BRO!


hehe, try that with close positions on ST







Having said that, you're right. 3-4 base Zerg stomps Terran easily, not to mention being able to expand endlessely on the map and then you can slowly chip away at the Terran army as they make their way across the map from one exp to another








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14548961*
> Its not that terran is OP, some people just haven't perfected there Z/P play. Terran is the easiest to learn because everyone learns it first.


Actually, consensus is that Protoss is the easiest to learn but Terran isn't too bad IMO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14548403*
> Terran has so much OP BS its ridiculous. You can't base race them (they'll lift off and use the OP mules to rebuild, whereas if you don't save probes and have enough for a nexus you're out)
> 
> So Marines are tech 1 unit that have range, tanks do ridiculous amounts of damage to ground, mass marines can take out 3x air unit costs with stim
> 
> Siege tanks are ridiculous at the amount of damage they do
> 
> Medivacs can transport and HEAL
> 
> Thors are impossible to kill in large numbers (only had success with 2x the number of HT and feedback then storms, and thats if they have energy)


- I'll give you the liftoff but you can still base race and win.
- Marines still only have 45 hp(no research) and still lose to slings/zealots, etc.... with no micro. With micro, they become much more efficient but so do slings/zealots/stalkers, etc...
- Mutas aren't supposed to engage marine blobs like the one I had, their main task is to keep me contained in my base and make me go turret crazy to defend. Take it from someone who used to harass the hell out of his opponent with mutas once I got them out. I almost always got at least several worker kills and picked off tech labs and such since most players don't have good turret placements.
- Siege tanks are easily countered by mass chargelots/immortals. Infact, immortals eat tanks so badly it isn't even funny which is why you'll need ghosts for emp if you take that route but then they need hts for feedback and the cycles go on.
- Medivacs can transport and heal, so what? Imagine having medics like in BW. Believe me, there is no comparison. Having a medic for every unit makes that unit much harder to take down especially with stutter step and with no lurkers for Zerg. The only thing this does is make sure that you don't need to bring along a medic or two to heal.
- You shouldn't have your opponent mass thors and if he does, chargelots/immortals/VRs for Protoss is more than enough. As for Zerg, you can just swarm them with slings/roaches. The thors will attack the slings giving time for your roaches to clean them up. If he masses thors, then that should also give you plenty of time to get ultras/BLs


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I think i'm going to switch to T, all you need to do to get Masters is Marines + tanks + medivacs


Good luck. Protoss switching to Terran is going to be a great reality check on which race is actually easy







.

Losing to mech in PvT? LOL.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Good luck. Protoss switching to Terran is going to be a great reality check on which race is actually easy







.

Losing to mech in PvT? LOL.


Now now take it easy, but, I agree. Switching to Terran won't help him move up. Chargelots+immortals just wipe mech easy, he could even go mass immortals if he wants without zealots and those do just fine(not greatest against hellions but meh)









Guys, check out my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/blog...=BigFan&page=3









Hooray, another TvsZ win on Plateau:

Never realized how many Zerg players have issues with drops -_-;


----------



## Silentness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Terran has so much OP BS its ridiculous. You can't base race them (they'll lift off and use the OP mules to rebuild


I watched a Korean ZvT yesterday where the Zerg won the base trade battle...

You can't scan or drop mules if you're lifting your orbital commands. The Korean zerg player I watched took advantage of the no scans and layed baneling mine traps at his main so that the Terran would be forced to walk on top of the banelings and get blown up and all his tanks were sniped by the remaining mutas and lings.

Muta/ling/baneling is good stuff.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Good luck. Protoss switching to Terran is going to be a great reality check on which race is actually easy







.

Losing to mech in PvT? LOL.


If ur micro's good, u can cheese ur way into gm/m easy. Terran has the best cheeses







And I've done this too, in my friends(kr) account during mid of season 2, i went 50-3 from gold to masters with combination of 6-7rax, 3 rax, proxy 5 rax and etc.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silentness*


I watched a Korean ZvT yesterday where the Zerg won the base trade battle...

You can't scan or drop mules if you're lifting your orbital commands. The Korean zerg player I watched took advantage of the no scans and layed baneling mine traps at his main so that the Terran would be forced to walk on top of the banelings and get blown up and all his tanks were sniped by the remaining mutas and lings.

Muta/ling/baneling is good stuff.


Usually someone who attacks the opponent's base first has a huge advantage, regardless of race. There's a difference between base race and counter.


----------



## clip+

Other than Terran having the best unit in the game: maraouuuudderrss, they're just as powerful or underpowered as the next race. The game is all about timing and economy. The OP talks are just BS.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


Other than Terran having the best unit in the game: maraouuuudderrss, they're just as powerful or underpowered as the next race. The game is all about timing and economy. The OP talks are just BS.


Shesh wut u talking about O_O, Koreans are the op race


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Usually someone who attacks the opponent's base first has a huge advantage, regardless of race. There's a difference between base race and counter.


Hmm I don't think that's true. I think outside of a few very rare cases that won't happen. My way higher mmr zerg buddy does all that with Terran and is only low masters. But I guess in general cheese is good, look at combatex.. grand master and he is terrible.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Hmm I don't think that's true. I think outside of a few very rare cases that won't happen. My way higher mmr zerg buddy does all that with Terran and is only low masters. But I guess in general cheese is good, look at combatex.. grand master and he is terrible.


I think u quoted the wrong thing there buddy









Nah, it's true, but i doubt i'd be able to continue upholding that winstreak after I hit masters tho. Gold - diamond players are actually bad at microing their workers, do u believe that?


----------



## DoomDash

Well yeah but anyone can newb bash with cheese.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Well yeah but anyone can newb bash with cheese.


EXACTLY. And I'm pretty sure the bloke from way above isn't versing ur mid-high AM masters opponents or my mid-high KR masters opponents


----------



## clip+

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Shesh wut u talking about O_O, Koreans are the op race


Pffff.. say that to swedish players.


----------



## DoomDash

I went 3-9 laddering today, I feel so terrible when I go from doing so well to terrible.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I went 3-9 laddering today, I feel so terrible when I go from doing so well to terrible.


That's actually how blizzard's ladder works. U'll verse easier/harder players in a row for a while.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=195273

If u can be stuffed to read it


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I know, but I am more used to 4 in a row, then 4 wins in a row. Not so many at once. Went from 6-7 games above 50% to 50%. Sucks.


----------



## murderbymodem

http://www.twitch.tv/combatex/

CombatEX and Deezer are 2v2ing together. It is the most hilarious thing I have ever witnessed. Ensure adblock is enabled so you don't give CombatEX money, and enjoy.


----------



## clip+

Hahaha however did they even come to that decision of working together?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


http://www.twitch.tv/combatex/

CombatEX and Deezer are 2v2ing together. It is the most hilarious thing I have ever witnessed. Ensure adblock is enabled so you don't give CombatEX money, and enjoy.


----------



## nitric0

Anyone wana form a team and do some 2v2's or 3v3's? Preferably in the diamond league


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I went 3-9 laddering today, I feel so terrible when I go from doing so well to terrible.


Stabilizing ratio









In all seriousness... play the insane AI in starcraft. Play it till you win.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nitric0*


Anyone wana form a team and do some 2v2's or 3v3's? Preferably in the diamond league


I'm up for it. I'm Plat.

cirE 206


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Stabilizing ratio









In all seriousness... play the insane AI in starcraft. Play it till you win.


Insane AI cheats, best to play Hard or Very Hard. Either way, AI in SCII doesn't play like a human which means its good for practicing BOs and such but nothing further IMO.

Getting rolled in the last 3 games. I got my MMMT army stuck near the tower on Caverns(new map) and then my P opponent stormed all of my army to death, I couldn't move at all :/

Then I got rolled by 2 Zerg for got into the late game and with ultras/BLs not much I could do since I was pretty tank heavy


----------



## nitric0

gg's redmist


----------



## clip+

I'm watching Gom mentors trying to convince yellow to try to qual for code A sept, and what race to select. It's hilarious when the mentor is listing out why he should be Terran, and that every single unit for Terran is imba.

L O L

But their general consensus, the only way for yell to get into code A is by playing protoss, easy to play.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14554622*
> Insane AI cheats, best to play Hard or Very Hard. Either way, AI in SCII doesn't play like a human which means its good for practicing BOs and such but nothing further IMO.


Very hard AI is actually pretty good for practicing openings, to see how they adapt to early pressure. In 90% of cases the AI will do some kind of 1 base all-in before 10 minutes mark. After that it plays at about silver level.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14556353*
> I'm watching Gom mentors trying to convince yellow to try to qual for code A sept, and what race to select. It's hilarious when the mentor is listing out why he should be Terran, and that every single unit for Terran is imba.
> 
> L O L
> 
> But their general consensus, the only way for yell to get into code A is by playing protoss, easy to play.


Lol, I wished he picked protoss, but in the long term he'll probably be best off with zerg. Let me know how it ended up. I'm at work and can't watch.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14556479*
> Lol, I wished he picked protoss, but in the long term he'll probably be best off with zerg. Let me know how it ended up. I'm at work and can't watch.


Why on earth would he pick protoss... he's one of the first zerg legends in bw. No way in earth he'd pick other races, just because they are slightly more "op"









If u want toss legends, most likely candidates are Nal_ra and reach, or even Stork


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14548116*
> how so? I harassed the daylight out of him throughout the match(once I got medivacs) then I engaged his army and had the best composition IMO. Roaches+mutas have horrible dps(aside from the splash of mutas), that and I was 1/1 and was making more units as I was harassing. Looking at the replay, he wasn't making anything and was sitting back waiting on greater spire. Should've made slings or something to increase dps and conserve his gas for BLs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno what race you play, but, TvsZ can be hard as hell if your Z opponent actually harasses you, gets upgrades and techs up while macroing. It's downright scary


To harass as terran is a lot easier than other races. Zerg has a LOT harder time holding it off, even if they did the right thing. It is his fault for not scouting ofc, but if you see medivacs your mind doesn't scream "DROP INCOMING", rather "oh bio-ball, how original". He did make several mistakes, and no doubt you deserved the win, but it should have been more to these mistakes not the lack of ability he had as Z and at his skill combined to hold off / recover from drops.

I play as random, I do find Terran the easiest to play as in the early-mid game, harder once you go against macroing P or Z. Z is just fun as hell for some reason, and I seem to be able to be a boss at macro with them, just don't always get good unit combos. P is boring, slow to get going, very unoriginal but deadly en masse.

Just my opinion, probably wrong XD


----------



## Ruckol1

Does anyone here play on a Mac? I've got it installed and all, just every mouse I try has this weird ass acceleration thing, I just can't get used to it.ß


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14558152*
> Does anyone here play on a Mac? I've got it installed and all, just every mouse I try has this weird ass acceleration thing, I just can't get used to it.ß


Some times I play on mac. Mostly my sig rig.


----------



## QuadDamage

Post up our replays boss!


----------



## QuadDamage

I really lose alot lol

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/591056/1/QuadDamage/matches


----------



## poroboszcz

Can I download SC2 starter edition and play for free on NA or KR server?


----------



## Alex132

Yes


----------



## Sauce Boss

So I can play multiplayer with a starter edition fully (bronze - grandmaster)? I just wanted to star another account to take some placement matches and see where I land. I don't play singleplayer.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14559077*
> So I can play multiplayer with a starter edition fully (bronze - grandmaster)? I just wanted to star another account to take some placement matches and see where I land. I don't play singleplayer.


Starter can't play league or co-op games, only custom game, only as Terran.
Can play vs any race player or vs terran AI, only easy and very easy.
Those are the limitations


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14556479*
> Very hard AI is actually pretty good for practicing openings, to see how they adapt to early pressure. In 90% of cases the AI will do some kind of 1 base all-in before 10 minutes mark. After that it plays at about silver level.


Fair enough, you have a good point








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;14556796*
> To harass as terran is a lot easier than other races. Zerg has a LOT harder time holding it off, even if they did the right thing. It is his fault for not scouting ofc, but if you see medivacs your mind doesn't scream "DROP INCOMING", rather "oh bio-ball, how original". He did make several mistakes, and no doubt you deserved the win, but it should have been more to these mistakes not the lack of ability he had as Z and at his skill combined to hold off / recover from drops.
> 
> I play as random, I do find Terran the easiest to play as in the early-mid game, harder once you go against macroing P or Z. Z is just fun as hell for some reason, and I seem to be able to be a boss at macro with them, just don't always get good unit combos. P is boring, slow to get going, very unoriginal but deadly en masse.
> 
> Just my opinion, probably wrong XD


If you see medivacs, it doesn't mean a drop. Gotten remember I need them for stim and such, but, I agree. He should've gotten more prepared, maybe another spine near the drones so that I have to deal with it first before engaging his workers.

I dunno, I think Zerg can harass almost as much if not more. Sling runbys, bane busts, nyding, OL drops, bane drops, etc.... I've had 2 Zs nydus into my base before and it took me by surprise. Lost lots of workers, structures, etc.... then I lost the game later on because I couldn't recover.

As for Protoss, well, aside from proxy pylons and wrap prisms, I don't recall any other methods of harass other than frontal ones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14558636*
> I really lose alot lol
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/591056/1/QuadDamage/matches


haha, don't worry, mine is starting to look similar now







I'm hitting some Plat players but I don't believe that my Terran is good enough yet to move up. I blame the peak on TvsZ









Edit: So far, 6-2 today, got my win streak broken by some P players who went chargelots+sentries off one base as I tried to macro and get my exp up. Sad part is, I was actually making workers on time this time around







He ff'd behind my 3 bunkers, then just forced his way in XD

Edit2: Make that 7-4 XD Lost 2 games to P back to back on the same map after went blink stalkers+colossi from forge FE and the other just went stalkers+sentries and ran over my mostly marine army as I took my exp. Then I got bm'd by the second one XD

Edit3: Make that 11-5







Got smashed by a Zerg mostly due to his infestor use, my lack of seperating units into smaller groups and his upgrades. Sad part is, I was kinda using mech(BFH, tanks, MM) but I got rolled over by a gazillion slings+banes T_T I'll post a pic to show the fun XD










Just finished playing this:
If you take a look at the minimap, you'll see red and blue connecting. The blue trail is all slow banes XD Doesn't help that he also had 8 infestors full of energy and that lone infestor with his slings/banes FG'd my marines as I tried to pull back. Given, I did come out on top supply wise but the remaining infestors made short work of my remaining army with infested terrans and FG.


----------



## Ruckol1

Push back that creep! Do some drops don't let him macro so easily


----------



## ronnin426850

*remembering the time where RTS actually required S instead of cheap tricks. And was fun*


----------



## phz10

Helpful thread, cheers


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14568924*
> *remembering the time where RTS actually required S instead of cheap tricks. And was fun*











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14568887*
> Push back that creep! Do some drops don't let him macro so easily


I did get rid of some creep before we engaged. Reason you can't see it is because it's still to everyone. As for drops, yep, I did several drops taking out his spire before we engaged and then even ran BFH and fried 10 drones losing none when the mutas came(later on). Had I realized that his 4th was as saturated as it was, I would've sacrificed some hellions there to take out like 40 drones!







I just didn't realize that he rebuilt it until I scouted later on and it was too late by then. I would say the main factor of losing the game was lack of spreading units on my part as well as not getting ghosts to emp/snipe infestors since they took out a lot of marines and I had them grouped up


----------



## clip+

hahaha

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLTjM1gdaM[/ame]

Educational PvZ


----------



## Sauce Boss

PvP is reeeeeeally slow sometimes but then gets awesome.

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## clip+

canon rush every game, problem solved.


----------



## raizooor3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


hahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLTjM1gdaM

Educational PvZ


Sage <33333333333333


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


canon rush every game, problem solved.


I just decided I'm going to do that in my placement matches. I suck so I want to be kicked into bronze but it will be fun to do pre-ladder!

I played some serious 2v2 placement matches and got placed in Platinum! I'm disappointed by the accuracy, no way I can handle that level of player!


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube  



 
Played that game pretty poorly but I did make up for it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFT-H-Rr4EQ&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4H3rOdz-ZU&


hmm, interesting game?










Wait, didn't we see this game a while back or at least the replay?


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*











I did get rid of some creep before we engaged. Reason you can't see it is because it's still to everyone. As for drops, yep, I did several drops taking out his spire before we engaged and then even ran BFH and fried 10 drones losing none when the mutas came(later on). Had I realized that his 4th was as saturated as it was, I would've sacrificed some hellions there to take out like 40 drones!







I just didn't realize that he rebuilt it until I scouted later on and it was too late by then. I would say the main factor of losing the game was lack of spreading units on my part as well as not getting ghosts to emp/snipe infestors since they took out a lot of marines and I had them grouped up










I thought you said FBH at first and was confused as ****.

:V

Anyone try the tankless mech TvZ? Focuses on 0/3 thors and blue flame. In theory it'd be really good against almost everything except for maybe mass roaches.


----------



## Fortunex

So Hydralisks don't seem very good at all, except as an emergency AA unit when you can't get Mutas up in time. What are they good for?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


I thought you said FBH at first and was confused as ****.

:V

Anyone try the tankless mech TvZ? Focuses on 0/3 thors and blue flame. In theory it'd be really good against almost everything except for maybe mass roaches.


Yes and no. I tried part mech(BFH+tanks) but I have yet to incorporate a lot of thors into my game, maybe I should try that. I've seen mech used before but still used to MMT









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


So Hydralisks don't seem very good at all, except as an emergency AA unit when you can't get Mutas up in time. What are they good for?


Roach+hydra+corruptor used to be the main composition against the colossi deathball but it doesn't get used as much anymore. Hydras are pretty good against Protoss due to their dps, not the greatest against Terran though


----------



## DoomDash

You cannot go Thor hellion vs Zerg period. You will get owned by NP extremely hard. Tanks are the key to mech vs Zerg, trust me I have mech down pretty well vs Z.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14576038*
> You cannot go Thor hellion vs Zerg period. You will get owned by NP extremely hard. Tanks are the key to mech vs Zerg, trust me I have mech down pretty well vs Z.


That's my thought as well. Getting my tanks NP'd is pretty painful as well :S

3-1 tonight, 1 TvsT won, 3 TvsP played, 2 won. The last one turned into a macro game but the guy just stormed my marauder army to oblivion. It's extremely difficult to kite chargelots already but adding archons and storms to the mix makes it near impossible even with stim marauders to do anything. Curious, what strat do you guys do for TvsP?
^^Anything you do against that combo doom? Sad part is, I had a 2nd before he did, tried dropping but he just feedback'd my drop and cleaned it up with a loss of 5 probes or so. I should've probably exp'd all over when I had the chance but aside from that, I don't think there was anything in particular that I could've done better. Maybe kite better? Less stim? Snipe hts with ghosts or emp(forgot about ghosts actually XD), hmm.


----------



## sora1607

You CAN go thor hellion vs Zerg. Just get like 2 or 3 ghosts. You have a barrack anyway


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607;14577040*
> You CAN go thor hellion vs Zerg. Just get like 2 or 3 ghosts. You have a barrack anyway


Sounds horrible. How do you deal with mutas? Mass roach?


----------



## clip+

You forgot terran has I spy button, plus they can scout. Which means they can change their composition on the get go.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14578408*
> You forgot terran has I spy button, plus they can scout. Which means they can change their composition on the get go.


Maybe, but doing that comes at a high high cost. Using the scan means you give up MULEs until the comm center's energy recovers. Also, switching from 1 army composition to another requires time and expenses (for which you can't compensate with MULEs cause you wasted your energy on scans







).
Then, you either get mass supply depots up, or you free some by wasting your wrongly buit army at the enemy


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14578100*
> Sounds horrible. How do you deal with mutas? Mass roach?


Thors deal with both roach's and muta's. I agree though, thor hellion doesn't seem good to me. Ghost mech (tank/hellion/thor/ghost) is really good though. You hard counter infestor and muta play with it.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14579411*
> Thors deal with both roach's and muta's. I agree though, thor hellion doesn't seem good to me. Ghost mech (tank/hellion/thor/ghost) is really good though. You hard counter infestor and muta play with it.


I always thought thors aren't that good against mutas, since they're to slow to react to harassment and if you spread them apart too much to cover your bases they can be picked off by magic box mutas.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14575223*
> So Hydralisks don't seem very good at all, except as an emergency AA unit when you can't get Mutas up in time. What are they good for?


they are quite good in drops as they are very high dps, but aside from that they are very slow and weak so you need allot of roaches to tank for them, "good" ish vs imortals but honestly they are pretty damn bad they are like expensive marines that do less damage dont have stim and move like an old lady.

I lost a tvz the other day to thors + tanks + hellions, and if you can get the combo up it is incredibly strong but realistically he should never have gotten that far I just failed badly and kept engageing poorly. think the best thing Z can do when someone brings out thors is just avoid fighting the main army as much as possible T beceoms very imobile. keep him scared and in his base and take the whole freaking map.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14579411*
> Thors deal with both roach's and muta's. I agree though, thor hellion doesn't seem good to me. Ghost mech (tank/hellion/thor/ghost) is really good though. You hard counter infestor and muta play with it.


The fact that thors have air attack doesn't mean they deal with mutalisks. The mutas just go far around your thors and take the mineral line (you don't have AA of course, cause you spent all your $$ on teching to thors







)


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


The fact that thors have air attack doesn't mean they deal with mutalisks. The mutas just go far around your thors and take the mineral line (you don't have AA of course, cause you spent all your $$ on teching to thors







)


Only a bad player wouldn't have turrets in his mineral line.....

To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14580045*
> Only a bad player wouldn't have turrets in his mineral line.....
> 
> To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.


Definitely true. If it hits 10min and I don't have any turrets or an ebay, I'll get one pronto and get 2 turrets near my minerals. I might even get the +2 armor upgrade if I have the money saved up and I have all my upgrades.

As for hydras, they have very high dps but their hp is a bit on the lowish side(80hp)









Edit:
TvsT played today:

Mech is pretty scary T_T I mean mass BFH+mass thors against MMTB  Poor marines never stood a chance XD

Also, played this TvsZ:

I made sure to constantly harass(aside from when I powered up) and then kept pressuring and pushing out, dropping, etc....









Edit2: Interesting, starting to see much more BFH in TvsT now T_T


----------



## DoomDash

My TvP is at like 20% this season. I've dropped about 300 points in the last 2 weeks if you include bonus pool. 1-1-1 is only good on specific maps in specific spots, and I just can't figure out a good way to beat these 6 gate all ins, zealot archon templar builds into tech switches, ect ect. Seems like you just don't have enough gas to keep up with the awesome gas / mineral sink that is archon / zealot / templar. Not only that but the archons not being slowed means I've lost 100000 games because my medivacs get killed when I'm trying to kite.

I am at a complete and utter loss on that MU. My TvT and my TvZ have been doing great.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14586863*
> My TvP is at like 20% this season. I've dropped about 300 points in the last 2 weeks if you include bonus pool. 1-1-1 is only good on specific maps in specific spots, and I just can't figure out a good way to beat these 6 gate all ins, zealot archon templar builds into tech switches, ect ect. Seems like you just don't have enough gas to keep up with the awesome gas / mineral sink that is archon / zealot / templar. Not only that but the archons not being slowed means I've lost 100000 games because my medivacs get killed when I'm trying to kite.
> 
> I am at a complete and utter loss on that MU. My TvT and my TvZ have been doing great.


I hear you on that. To be fair, my 2nd exp(or 3rd base) wasn't in the most ideal position and I didn't start saturating it until much later. I should've also taken more bases and concentrated on harassing more but I sat back a bit and built up a marauder army knowing full well that we'll be engaging soon enough but I didn't count on losing the whole army while he lost 2/3 of his or so. I'm wondering if a marauder+ghost army would've faired better.

Possible strat?
Check for observer, cloak ghosts, snipe hts(so that you don't have to worry about them becoming archons or pulling them back to regain energy), emp archons and then stim and kite. At least you don't have to worry about storms and archons will have 100 less hp if not a lot more depending on how many emps you get off which means a couple of hits instead of like 30 or something -_- That and if you are getting marauders, you already have a tech lab on your rax so you just need a ghost academy and energy upgrade(cloak is optional). That's the only thing that comes to mind, maybe add in tanks with MM?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14580045*
> To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.


1 marine costs 50 minerals, 45+10hp, 1 supply and does 7/10.5dps
vs

1 hydra @100min 50gas, 80hp, 2 supply for 14.5dps

so a hydra costs at least 3 times as much (though i'd say way more than that as gas > minerals) and is barely twice as good, infact its not even twice as good, if you factor in stim.

that said it might be more fair to compared with a stalker, which cost 25 mins more and infact do half the damage while having twice the hp ofc stalkers get bonus dmg vs armour and are allot faster not to mention blink which is awesome maybe marines are just op ^^

hydras can be situational but there is a good reason that you only really see them as a counter to void ray harass. they are horribly expensive for a very weak unit. and they dont really fit with the current zerg meta of highly mobile armies fast counters and harassing. honestly would not be surprised to see the hydra either removed or entirely reworked for hots.


----------



## ronnin426850

I'm having real trouble countering any zerg. Until now - no single win TvZ. Some ppl say marauder, but I get 5 marauders when he comes with 20 zerglings and 6 roaches. Can't protect the expansion either, infestors own me soo bad.. And whatever I do, I always have 2x fewer units than the Z. WHat to do?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14588358*
> I'm having real trouble countering any zerg. Until now - no single win TvZ. Some ppl say marauder, but I get 5 marauders when he comes with 20 zerglings and 6 roaches. Can't protect the expansion either, infestors own me soo bad.. And whatever I do, I always have 2x fewer units than the Z. WHat to do?


I'd have to watch your games, but how many rax are you on? really cant see how you only have 5 mara when he has that many lings/raoches unless your just not macroing at all. I very rarely build many marauders in tvz they are only good to soak banes and for dealing with roaches marines are a better option imo.

Some simple rules to live by (these dont hold true forever but by the time you should be ignoring them you should know when to)

1. Try to always be producing out of every building you own that includes your command centre.

2. always spend as much of your money as possible, If you are doing 1. and you are still gaining money build more unit producing structures.

3. *Do not!!!!!* queue up units to achieve 1&2 queued units cost you now but gets you the unit later, if you have enough money to queue units you have enough money to build another unit producing structure. It is better to have 1 production facility only being half utilised than it is to have a trust fund.
3.1 conversely do not build building you cant afford to use.

4. Try to keep your energy low on your CC, nexus or queen.

5. Buy upgrades. keep on top of them they are vitally important.

6. Expand and keep expanding. keep a presence on the map fast units like hellions are great for this.
6.1 try to stop your opponent from doing the same keep him scared and in his base.

7. Scout, know when you are strong and when your opponent is weak attack him at one of those points.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14587559*
> I hear you on that. To be fair, my 2nd exp(or 3rd base) wasn't in the most ideal position and I didn't start saturating it until much later. I should've also taken more bases and concentrated on harassing more but I sat back a bit and built up a marauder army knowing full well that we'll be engaging soon enough but I didn't count on losing the whole army while he lost 2/3 of his or so. I'm wondering if a marauder+ghost army would've faired better.
> 
> Possible strat?
> Check for observer, cloak ghosts, snipe hts(so that you don't have to worry about them becoming archons or pulling them back to regain energy), emp archons and then stim and kite. At least you don't have to worry about storms and archons will have 100 less hp if not a lot more depending on how many emps you get off which means a couple of hits instead of like 30 or something -_- That and if you are getting marauders, you already have a tech lab on your rax so you just need a ghost academy and energy upgrade(cloak is optional). That's the only thing that comes to mind, maybe add in tanks with MM?


I already do all that. Tanks intvp after 15 min lolol bad


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14589044*
> I'd have to watch your games, but how many rax are you on? really cant see how you only have 5 mara when he has that many lings/raoches unless your just not macroing at all. I very rarely build many marauders in tvz they are only good to soak banes and for dealing with roaches marines are a better option imo.
> 
> Some simple rules to live by (these dont hold true forever but by the time you should be ignoring them you should know when to)
> 
> 1. Try to always be producing out of every building you own that includes your command centre.
> 
> 2. always spend as much of your money as possible, If you are doing 1. and you are still gaining money build more unit producing structures.
> 
> 3. *Do not!!!!!* queue up units to achieve 1&2 queued units cost you now but gets you the unit later, if you have enough money to queue units you have enough money to build another unit producing structure. It is better to have 1 production facility only being half utilised than it is to have a trust fund.
> 3.1 conversely do not build building you cant afford to use.
> 
> 4. Try to keep your energy low on your CC, nexus or queen.
> 
> 5. Buy upgrades. keep on top of them they are vitally important.
> 
> 6. Expand and keep expanding. keep a presence on the map fast units like hellions are great for this.
> 6.1 try to stop your opponent from doing the same keep him scared and in his base.
> 
> 7. Scout, know when you are strong and when your opponent is weak attack him at one of those points.


Those rules are great, thank you very much for listing them like that.
One thing I can't understand however, is - how do you find the balance between expanding and producing?







I, in 70% of the cases, manage to get 1 exp up. (in 30% I get rushed too early







). If I try to get another exp, i find it impossible to defend, my forces are not as mobile as Zerg (or Protoss) and stretched across the map, easy to take on.
And if I keep packed with 1 base and 1 exp, soon the enemy has the entire map and blasts me out of the game.







Bunkers are very rarely effective, mostly in TvT games, vs P or Z they get busted before even a single enemy unit goes down.. So how to defent those exps?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14586863*
> My TvP is at like 20% this season. I've dropped about 300 points in the last 2 weeks if you include bonus pool. 1-1-1 is only good on specific maps in specific spots, and I just can't figure out a good way to beat these 6 gate all ins, zealot archon templar builds into tech switches, ect ect. Seems like you just don't have enough gas to keep up with the awesome gas / mineral sink that is archon / zealot / templar. Not only that but the archons not being slowed means I've lost 100000 games because my medivacs get killed when I'm trying to kite.
> 
> I am at a complete and utter loss on that MU. My TvT and my TvZ have been doing great.


You should try sky terran. I've been experimenting with a tvp style that revolves around banshees and ghosts. It seems very good so far and you can harass like crazy while macroing. 6 gates can be held off with 2 bunkers, most pro terran players will build 2 bunkers to deal with any 2 base all in play.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14589711*
> Those rules are great, thank you very much for listing them like that.
> One thing I can't understand however, is - how do you find the balance between expanding and producing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I, in 70% of the cases, manage to get 1 exp up. (in 30% I get rushed too early
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). If I try to get another exp, i find it impossible to defend, my forces are not as mobile as Zerg (or Protoss) and stretched across the map, easy to take on.
> And if I keep packed with 1 base and 1 exp, soon the enemy has the entire map and blasts me out of the game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bunkers are very rarely effective, mostly in TvT games, vs P or Z they get busted before even a single enemy unit goes down.. So how to defent those exps?


You cannot play passively all the time unless your turtling hard, know when you are strong and move out then do as much damage as possible while taking as little damage as possible, If you cant finish him or it looks close there is no harm in pulling back its better to inflict a little damage while taking minimum losses than it is to deal a ton of damage loose your whole army and then loose all that hard won advantage. I'd say over 50% of games I loose is down to me not pulling back when I should its hard to judge and you often see even the top pro's get it wrong.

make sure you keep a presence on the map, if your playing aggressively expand towards your opponent that way you can use your army offensively and defensively at the same time. (also has the added bonus of giving you a nice place to fall back to planetary fortresses are a wonderful dug in position.

the balance between expanding and production buildings is kind of dependant on the match up and what your opponent does, if he expands normally you are safe to expo, if he doesn't then you have to consider the chances are he is going for a X base timing push. in which case you want to harass him and turtle up a bit build a few bunkers or whatever.

bunkers without scv's to repair them are pretty much a waste, hold watch towers etc so you can see him move out and put some scv's there ready to repair.

Use planetaries and turrets for hard to reach expansions, they will cost him allot more to destroy than it cost you to make them. Repair them scvs repairing a planetary make it almost invincible.


----------



## ntherblast

I need help I play as random and when i am zerg and face terran and get siege tanks i always seem to get owned. I do my normal start 14/14 speedlings with banes then depending what he has i go roaches or mutas. I am finding that the siege tanks are just obliderating my ground army and even with my mutas they get owned by the marines.

So any tips on what build to do as zerg when terran goes siege tanks/mmm? Btw they usually do the push around 7-9.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


I need help I play as random and when i am zerg and face terran and get siege tanks i always seem to get owned. I do my normal start 14/14 speedlings with banes then depending what he has i go roaches or mutas. I am finding that the siege tanks are just obliderating my ground army and even with my mutas they get owned by the marines.

So any tips on what build to do as zerg when terran goes siege tanks/mmm?


Disregard me, i'm a noob









Maybe infestor/mutas. Infestors go first, rape the marines, then mutas snipe the tanks (yeah you might lose some infestors, but I never seem to be able to get more than 1 tank for 2 Zerg infestors, so chances are you'll keep some). You can also do frequent drops/muta attacks at the mineral line. Force him to defend the base while you exp. Terran is screwed hard if Z gets nice economy.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


I need help I play as random and when i am zerg and face terran and get siege tanks i always seem to get owned. I do my normal start 14/14 speedlings with banes then depending what he has i go roaches or mutas. I am finding that the siege tanks are just obliderating my ground army and even with my mutas they get owned by the marines.

So any tips on what build to do as zerg when terran goes siege tanks/mmm?


 Muta bane/ling, its fragile but relatively easy you have to watch and scout as much as you can, its easy once you build a pack of 20-25 mutas to keep the terran on 2 bases ( map dependent of course) you never really wanna go roach against terran unless hes doing mass hellion but tank+mmm is easy enough to defend against if your overlords are in the right spots and you keep an eye on mini map drops should do little to no damage.

It sounds like your just getting into bad engagments never attack into marines with your mutas, ling infestor into Brood lord is becoming popular , but i personally dont like it ( well the mass infestor ), Late game you wanna get to brood lords asap. Hopefully the whole time you have been getting the melee upgrade as it helps your banes and your lings AND your broodlords. Whats nice is if the terran ends up going mass viking you can tech switch to ultras and bam ultra ling V a weakened ground army is always fun. I am not the greatest zerg player but my ZvT is my strongest matchup.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


I need help I play as random and when i am zerg and face terran and get siege tanks i always seem to get owned. I do my normal start 14/14 speedlings with banes then depending what he has i go roaches or mutas. I am finding that the siege tanks are just obliderating my ground army and even with my mutas they get owned by the marines.

So any tips on what build to do as zerg when terran goes siege tanks/mmm?


use your mutas to drag him round the map dont fight him head on use your speed and mobility to take advantage of the fact his tank make his army relatively imobile. try and keep his tank/marine count down using slings and banes early on transitioning into infesters to FG the bio ball and broods to force him to unsiege. but never stop making slings and banes, they are great he need to control his bio really well not to just die to the banes and slings make short work of tanks.

Wait for critical numbers, if you have too few lings they all die before reaching him, if you have enough he will obliterate his own army killing the lings that get in close use his siege tanks against him. same is true of mutas by all mean harrass with them but when it becomes obvious you cant do any damage without loosing mutas sit back and build up a few more.

25-30 mutas 1 shot pretty much everything keep them moving, move them past the thing you want to attack while your in range tell them to attack then instantly tell them to move somewhere again. they will all fire but they wont stop and loose speed, this is important as muta have slow acceleration and its very useful for sniping tanks. practice it









the only time you want to build roaches vs terran is if he is going for lots of hellions, they are terribly supply and resource inefficient vs marine tank.

Make sure that you dont engage him where he can block you in you want to get good surface area.


----------



## ronnin426850

Mass stimmed marine + medivacs just got owned in under 3 sec by mass roach. New strategy badly needed


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Mass stimmed marine + medivacs just got owned in under 3 sec by mass roach. New strategy badly needed










Add in like 6 marauders lol.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14590402*
> Mass stimmed marine + medivacs just got owned in under 3 sec by mass roach. New strategy badly needed


Get a baneling nest + speed?

Banes own marines and they can't heal due to the instant death


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Get a baneling nest + speed?

Banes own marines and they can't heal due to the instant death


I'm the terran here









Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Add in like 6 marauders lol.


And the 6 marauders will take on 20 roaches?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I'm the terran here









And the 6 marauders will take on 20 roaches?


siege tanks or banshees, even marauders with concussion?

Use stim also and move back while attacking

He shouldn't have more roaches than you do mariens + medivacs since rines are much cheaper and you can get reactors on the rax


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


siege tanks or banshees, even marauders with concussion?

Use stim also and move back while attacking

He shouldn't have more roaches than you do mariens + medivacs since rines are much cheaper and you can get reactors on the rax


Yes, he had about the same size force (or even smaller), marines were stimmed), he still killed EVERYTHING in 3 seconds!! Tell me about OP. And that wasn't even banelings, roaches only. Banshees require too much techup, tanks take too long to deploy (6 seconds, omg, everyone's dead by the time it gets to siege mode)... I'm pretty much stuck with M3 and hellions, which also don't help much..

Mass hellions maybe? Does that help?


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14590639*
> I'm the terran here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the 6 marauders will take on 20 roaches?


Add in a smattering of marauders to your marine ball you don't need many, they will wreck roaches and i think 6 marauder with medivacs would decimate 20 roaches tbh Also hellion are the last thing you want V roaches, and tanks will destroy roaches, never move all your tanks at once un-seige half creep forward, rinse repeat. It sounds like your getting into bad engagements.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Add in a smattering of marauders to your marine ball you don't need many, they will wreck roaches and i think 6 marauder with medivacs would decimate 20 roaches tbh Also hellion are the last thing you want V roaches, and tanks will destroy roaches, never move all your tanks at once un-seige half creep forward, rinse repeat. It sounds like your getting into bad engagements.


yes







That tank strategy seems interesting







I never really got the hang of the 3M ball.. maybe my micro sucks. Thanks, will try that


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14590874*
> yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That tank strategy seems interesting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never really got the hang of the 3M ball.. maybe my micro sucks. Thanks, will try that


You wanna have a practice game? im on coffee number 4 so ive got some energy lol


----------



## Dr216

against mass roach aside from just having enough, if he has way more stuff than you you will always loose, marauders help but but it sounds more like your engageing him on a move and hoping it will work, you need to try and make it so you have more surface area, if 50% of your marines are not firing and all of his roaches are then your effectively only fighting with half your army vs his whole army thats a sure fire way to loose.

ovbiously the ideal is all your units firing and not all of his then your really gonna destroy him.


----------



## falco216

Marine tank medivac will destroy mass roaches.

srsly you guys


----------



## DoomDash

I never use rauders vs Zerg unless its late game vs ultra.


----------



## Razultull

Had an interesting game today with FXOFrequency and nGenMafia (my username is Kierkegaard on SEA)




























Mafia is rank 3 in SEA!!

FXOfrequency was Masters but Mafia just decimated the other team. He went 5 rax expand MMM. I went roach/hydra.....

What makes me sad is that my APM is the same as his, and clearly i am a much worse player.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Razultull*


Had an interesting game today with FXOFrequency and nGenMafia (my username is Kierkegaard on SEA)

Mafia is rank 3 in SEA!!

FXOfrequency was Masters but Mafia just decimated the other team. He went 5 rax expand MMM. I went roach/hydra.....

What makes me sad is that my APM is the same as his, and clearly i am a much worse player.


Makes me sad too when I see things like that...

I just had an interesting TvT (the only games I'm capable of winning) (and I won), I dug in the mid of XelNagaCaverns with mass stimmed marine and tanks. I love it when I part a few tanks right under the cliff of his base and use the OrbitalCommand scan to unleash hell on his building while his army is busy protecting the exp


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I never use rauders vs Zerg unless its late game vs ultra.


most zerg dont go mass roach v T


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


most zerg dont go mass roach v T 


Why? (noobs do) (which means I'm more of a noob cuz I can't counter them







) Still, why?


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Why? (noobs do) (which means I'm more of a noob cuz I can't counter them







) Still, why?


Coz there's so many more efficient way to kill off basic terran units. Tanks rape roaches so usually when you're up against MMMT, Muta bane is very promising. Mutas are good for locking marines into areas and gives you map control.

Also, remember to keep some slings in your bane mix up to attract the tank fire. You don't want your banes dying to tank shots. usually you can use your mutas to pull the marines into the banes and then clean up with the mutas. Another technique popularized by Dongregu a korean player is sandwiching the enemy units between your blings and mutas so they have no where to go.

But this is all only against MMMT.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Why? (noobs do) (which means I'm more of a noob cuz I can't counter them







) Still, why?


 against terran its such an inefficient unit, sure its cheap and you can max out quickly on them but the dps they have is horrid. And they cost so much in terms of food, Tanks and marauders eat them alive. You only wanna build them if you see the mass hellion play.

Banelings are about the most cost efficient thing Zerg can use V bio.And with how slow terran mech can be mutas can keep the terran in their base. Now there are some roach/ling all in timings that can work if they catch you off guard but one bunker with marauders and a few scv repairing it you can defend it.


----------



## kyle-reece

Cos marauders easily beat them...and can kite them with concussive shells.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


the dps they have is horrid.


But my decent marine/medivac force today was annihilated in 3 sec by roaches


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


But my decent marine/medivac force today was annihilated in 3 sec by roaches










It's because you didn't have concussive shell/ enough marauders. Roaches in enough quantities can kill anything. But the key word here is efficient. Banes completely decimate marines and marauders. And once you have the terran in a lock, he is forced to pump more of the same units to counter your mutas. Its quite vicious when you see it working properly.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


But my decent marine/medivac force today was annihilated in 3 sec by roaches











How many roaches V how many marines? how many barracks did you have, how many base was the zerg on?


----------



## CravinR1

Hellions get owned by roaches (they're only good vs light unarmored units ie lings)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *falco216*


Marine tank medivac will destroy mass roaches.

srsly you guys


Yep, easy picking especially if you stim and move the roaches into your tank line









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I never use rauders vs Zerg unless its late game vs ultra.


hmm, aren't ultras the best against armored(i.e. marauders+tanks)? I know marines aren't the best option but against ultras, what is Terran's best unit? Thor? Air?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Why? (noobs do) (which means I'm more of a noob cuz I can't counter them







) Still, why?


Roaches have horrible dps but can take a lot of hits before they are taken out. That and they also have armor and can burrow/move under healing in the process. Given, MMT is the usual against Zerg, so, those roaches will be pulverized before they get to the tanks and their low dps doesn't help









Either way, most Zergs aim for sling/bling/muta. Pretty mobile, so, good for harass. Slings+blings are great against marine forces due to how cost-efficient banes can be against groups of marines. If you've ever lost a lot of marines to a bane or two, trust me, you'll know what I mean XD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


How many roaches V how many marines? how many barracks did you have, how many base was the zerg on?


x2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


How many roaches V how many marines? how many barracks did you have, how many base was the zerg on?


Don't remember exactly, but it was pretty early in game. Let's say I had.. what.. 20 marines, 2 medivacs. 1x weapons upgrade, 1x 10HP, 1x stimpack. Not sure how many roaches, it was a StarshipTroopers scene actually
















I was attacking his exp, cause a scan showed poor defense. Got there pretty fast, but the roaches came out of nowhere. By the time I knew what hit me, I was already typing "gg".

Had 3 rax, zerg was *i believe* still on 1 base 1 exp.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Don't remember exactly, but it was pretty early in game. Let's say I had.. what.. 20 marines, 2 medivacs. 1x weapons upgrade, 1x 10HP, 1x stimpack. Not sure how many roaches, it was a StarshipTroopers scene actually
















I was attacking his exp, cause a scan showed poor defense. Got there pretty fast, but the roaches came out of nowhere. By the time I knew what hit me, I was already typing "gg".

Had 3 rax, zerg was *i believe* still on 1 base 1 exp.


Here's something that helps: If you ever find yourself in a situation where you are overwhelmed, do a quick pickup as in quickly pick up all your marines into the medivacs and fly back to the base. Better to lose a marine or two and retreat then lose all your force. Of course, only do this if you are 100% positive that the engagement is lost with not much damage to him and more to you 









TvsZ from couple of days back:

Ultras and BLs were used, lucky for me he didn't have a ton of corruptors or forgot about them XD Hellion runbys are pretty awesome









TvsZ just played now:

Lucky there were no ultras/BLs and FG wasn't used much with the infestors he had. Ending is a little surprising and kinda funny/sad in its own way


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Had 3 rax, zerg was *i believe* still on 1 base 1 exp.


I realy think you would benefit from really anylizing your replays, its easy to see something like oh noes he has lots of roaches amg all my stuff just died and say to yourself I lost that game to mass roach.

However that isnt the case you lost that game when for 2 mins you supply blocked yourself at 28 supply or you stopped building marines for X mins or you didnt scout that 3rd he sneaked in so he was actually much better off than you expected. In most cases the reason we loose games is a culmination of lots of little mistakes the trick is spotting them in your replays, I for example know i loose allot as zerg as after 3+bases my lavea injects become realy realy bad and that my creep spread is bad/non existant.

at lower levels those mistakes are more likely to be larger and as such easier to spot, If you want I can really take appart one of your replays and be incredibly critical and give you time stamps etc of what to look for.

I'm no pro i play random but it helps to have someone else look over such things.


----------



## BigFan

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/iCCup.TV
iCCup RO32 ^^


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Don't remember exactly, but it was pretty early in game. Let's say I had.. what.. 20 marines, 2 medivacs. 1x weapons upgrade, 1x 10HP, 1x stimpack. Not sure how many roaches, it was a StarshipTroopers scene actually
















I was attacking his exp, cause a scan showed poor defense. Got there pretty fast, but the roaches came out of nowhere. By the time I knew what hit me, I was already typing "gg".

Had 3 rax, zerg was *i believe* still on 1 base 1 exp.


The rax with the tech lab pump marauders. In the same situation i bet you would have come out on top. even if hes going banelings you can use those marauders to absorb so many banes leaving your marines to take out mutas and lings.


----------



## BigFan

WOW. Byun against Terius, Byun took it but it was such a lopsided game







I mean 2 rax bunker rush then he tried to exp and did, but, so did Terius again. Terius went for fast infestors, held a MMT push with some spines and slings and then brought out ultras. He nydused into Byun's base and took out lots of SCVs(FG'd), etc.... when Byun's army was attacking. He eventually nydused into the 2 islands and droned hardcore while Byun lost his mining base to BLs, so, you have slings+infestors+ultras+BLs against MMMT yet he lost the BLs, ultras and infestors. Then he got his nydus worm sniped, so, his 2 infestors and 30+ slings were stuck on the island. He gg'd right after his main was able to go down XD


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14593733*
> Hellions get owned by roaches (they're only good vs light unarmored units ie lings)


Yup. Thats why I think scouting versus zerg is more important then ever. If they 6 Pool... roaches... make marauders. Mauraders are still all around good units w/ conc shell. Marines too but they can be very flimsy for they are cheap







I laugh at players who 6 pool and force a MMMT contain and KEEL EVERYTHING


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14593737*
> hmm, aren't ultras the best against armored(i.e. marauders+tanks)? I know marines aren't the best option but against ultras, what is Terran's best unit? Thor? Air?
> 
> .


Rauders with micro. Thors get shredded by Ultra.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14596905*
> Rauders with micro. Thors get shredded by Ultra.


Fair enough. I have seen some Ts mix in marauders against ultras as well


----------



## ismet

m/m/m will destroy ultras with stim/micro. some banshees won't hurt either.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ismet;14598857*
> m/m/m will destroy ultras with stim/micro. some banshees won't hurt either.


Definitely









Korean coaching video(Cella+SlayerS team):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252709


----------



## Dr216

think there is a vid of automaton 2000 killing an ultra with a single perfectly microed marine and a medivac kind of amazing, waiting on someone to do that in a real game







you know cos that actually seems possible as opposed to the 100slings vs 20 siege tank thing or the perfect marine splits vs banes


----------



## Mwarren

Tanks actually counter ultras too (leaving only a few sieged).


----------



## ITaoI

Anyone interested in snagging extra copy of sc2 or need let me know got some on the cheap fs(pm me). Great game!


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Definitely









Korean coaching video(Cella+SlayerS team):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=252709










haha thats awesome im watching the whole thing.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Is anyone else getting sorta bored of SC?

It seems I'm forever bronze so I'm not playing for a purpose. I feel like if I got another account I could get maybe into gold and actually have fun with the game.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Is anyone else getting sorta bored of SC?

It seems I'm forever bronze so I'm not playing for a purpose. I feel like if I got another account I could get maybe into gold and actually have fun with the game.


Heh, the more you win the more you have fun. and the only way to win is to play more and get better!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Is anyone else getting sorta bored of SC?

It seems I'm forever bronze so I'm not playing for a purpose. I feel like if I got another account I could get maybe into gold and actually have fun with the game.


Not bored, no, but I'm getting enough of being beaten like a dawg 80% of the time









Also, the game does have too few units, and is not epic enough IMO (did the cruiser have to be THAT small?? Come on, that's a war spaceship, not some RC toy. From the looks of it no more than 2 marines can fit inside. Stupid.).

Some sort of superweapons (that would actually give point to turtling) would also make the game far more interesting.. But meh. Let's see what HotS brings.


----------



## rurushu

I'm glad there aren't any superweapons and such. We have enough of these games already. SC is about competition and balance and that means keeping things mostly simple. That's what I love about it


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14603681*
> I'm glad there aren't any superweapons and such. We have enough of these games already. SC is about competition and balance and that means keeping things mostly simple. That's what I love about it


Yeah, running back and forth with a unit, so it can shoot but can't get shot at - definitely nice and simple. And realistic too







That's what I meant a few posts back when I said cheap tricks instead of strategy.


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14603932*
> Yeah, running back and forth with a unit, so it can shoot but can't get shot at - definitely nice and simple. And realistic too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I meant a few posts back when I said cheap tricks instead of strategy.


I'm pretty sure realism is not something you'd expect from a game called Starcraft









And also, micro and strategy are different things. Knowing how to dance around with marauders won't win you the game most of the time, strategy will. And it certainly doesn't make you invincible







. We've moved past the stage where games are won purely by cheese/cheap tricks (early GSLs anyone?). Now it's mostly longer games where decision making and strategy decides who will win.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14604187*
> I'm pretty sure realism is not something you'd expect from a game called Starcraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also, micro and strategy are different things. Knowing how to dance around with marauders won't win you the game most of the time, strategy will. And it certainly doesn't make you invincible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . We've moved past the stage where games are won purely by cheese/cheap tricks (early GSLs anyone?). Now it's mostly longer games where decision making and strategy decides who will win.


HOW do you move past that point? Cause everyone I play against kills me, just because he clicks faster. Sorry but that's not what I expect from an RTS. And I'm not some ****** who takes ages to realize what's happening either. So, how to move to where the strategy matters?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14603157*
> Is anyone else getting sorta bored of SC?
> 
> It seems I'm forever bronze so I'm not playing for a purpose. I feel like if I got another account I could get maybe into gold and actually have fun with the game.


nope, never. TvsZ is still as unique as it gets. The system will eventually promote you when it knows you are ready(50/50 against Silver, etc....) so give it time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14603505*
> Heh, the more you win the more you have fun. and the only way to win is to play more and get better!


hehe, indeed!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14603681*
> I'm glad there aren't any superweapons and such. We have enough of these games already. SC is about competition and balance and that means keeping things mostly simple. That's what I love about it


I agree, game is fine as is. Can't wait to see what HoTS brings








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14599116*
> think there is a vid of automaton 2000 killing an ultra with a single perfectly microed marine and a medivac kind of amazing, waiting on someone to do that in a real game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you know cos that actually seems possible as opposed to the 100slings vs 20 siege tank thing or the perfect marine splits vs banes


XD GL with that, doubt you'll see anyone do that anytime soon








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14601018*
> Tanks actually counter ultras too (leaving only a few sieged).


hmm, I don't fully disagree, but, if you don't have enough MMM to support, it might as well be GG. Ultras eat through tanks without support(obviously)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14603932*
> Yeah, running back and forth with a unit, so it can shoot but can't get shot at - definitely nice and simple. And realistic too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I meant a few posts back when I said cheap tricks instead of strategy.


Even with stuttersteping, the marines still get hit, but, the idea is to minimize it. It's not a cheap trick, you are just increasing their efficiency and using micro to do it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14604187*
> I'm pretty sure realism is not something you'd expect from a game called Starcraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also, micro and strategy are different things. Knowing how to dance around with marauders won't win you the game most of the time, strategy will. And it certainly doesn't make you invincible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . We've moved past the stage where games are won purely by cheese/cheap tricks (early GSLs anyone?). Now it's mostly longer games where decision making and strategy decides who will win.


Agree, micro/macro and balance is what defines SCII imo


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14603505*
> Heh, the more you win the more you have fun. and the only way to win is to play more and get better!


I'll take the moment to strongly disagree







I play, and I lose. And I play some more, and I keep losing, despite the fact that I watch pro replays, follow pro advices and try not to repeat my mistakes. Then I play again, and I lose again, and in that whole cycle the only thing that happens is this:
I demonically desire to find the moron who came up first with the idiotic idea of "micro", tear his friggin head off and his guts inside out and burn his fingers with a blowtorch.

Then I calm down and I get back to losing again.


----------



## Sierpinski

What race do you play? If random, I would suggest choosing a single race. If not random, maybe try a different race? They are all slightly different and you need to find the one that suits you.

My advice is for each matchup, to choose a build order. Liquipedia is great for that. Then maybe practice against a computer till you get the hang of it. Focus on the early pressure builds and get the hang of the micro necessary for those. This is assuming you have good mechanics.

Also, watch the Day9 Dailies, they are amazing and extremely helpful. Newbie Tuesdays are great for me. I always learn stuff. If you have friends... (lol) tell them to get the game and play with you. It always helps to get motivation through others IRL not just on the internetz.


----------



## poroboszcz

You don't need any micro below master league imo apart from some really basic stuff like pulling injured units back and focus firing in small engagements. You can also play zerg and you'll never have to micro at all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14604885*
> You can also play zerg and you'll never have to micro at all.


Technically right clicking on stuff is microing I guess.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14604676*
> I'll take the moment to strongly disagree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I play, and I lose. And I play some more, and I keep losing, despite the fact that I watch pro replays, follow pro advices and try not to repeat my mistakes. Then I play again, and I lose again, and in that whole cycle the only thing that happens is this:
> I demonically desire to find the moron who came up first with the idiotic idea of "micro", tear his friggin head off and his guts inside out and burn his fingers with a blowtorch.
> 
> Then I calm down and I get back to losing again.


Calm down!








Seriously though, it's only with constant practice that you'll get better. Post up a replay or two, kinda curious to see why you're losing that much








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14604950*
> Technically right clicking on stuff is microing I guess.


----------



## l337sft

Hey all, i havent been able to play much lately, i had a house fire and the flames took the life of my computer. I have this laptop though, im downloading SC2 now cause its the only thing i play. Its got an HD3200 an Athlon tf-20 1.6ghz cpu. and 3 gigs of ram. do you think ill be able to play? idc about graphics


----------



## yks

You were supposed to destroy the Grack, not join him!









on HuK joining EG


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14604676*
> I'll take the moment to strongly disagree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I play, and I lose. And I play some more, and I keep losing, despite the fact that I watch pro replays, follow pro advices and try not to repeat my mistakes. Then I play again, and I lose again, and in that whole cycle the only thing that happens is this:
> I demonically desire to find the moron who came up first with the idiotic idea of "micro", tear his friggin head off and his guts inside out and burn his fingers with a blowtorch.
> 
> Then I calm down and I get back to losing again.


I took a look at the replay you posted in another thread. Don't know how much you've improved since then, but here's some basic advice anyway:

1) You don't seem to have a clear build order. That's probably the first thing I'd look up. I'm not too familiar with terran builds since I don't play it (nor am I a terribly high-ranked player







) but I'm sure you can find something on Team Liquid, Liquipedia or even Youtube. At first, one very basic BO should be enough, later you'll want specific BOs for each matchup. To practice your BO, just play against the AI until you have memorized it.

2)You're not using any hotkeys. At this point, you should have at least all your army on 1 hotkey (you'll want to change that later), all your production buildings on another key (or separate keys for each type of building if you want), and all your CCs on another key as well. Cycle through all these periodically and you'll see that your production will get much better. Which brings me to my next point...









3)Constant production. You're not constantly producing out of your buildings, which makes your money skyrocket.

4) Scouting. It's probably not very important at this level, but try to make a habit of constantly scouting so you know what your opponent is up to. As the game goes on and you have a lot of Orbitals, you can scan a lot more instead of dropping a gazillion of MULEs.

5)If you feel threatened, don't hesitate to make more bunkers and pull SCVs to repair. You can salvage them after all









6)If you have money, SPEND IT. If you see that a pro player only has 4 barracks at some point in the game, that doesn't mean you can't have more than that. Once your macro gets better, you'll naturally need less buildings.

7)Abuse the crap out of Hellions while you still can. Seriously









Like I said, this is some very basic advice from someone who doesn't even play Terran (and barely plays at all







). Notice that I never mention micro. It's very fun to outmacro your opponent and then listen to how he whines about how you are a microless scrub


----------



## BALAST

PC Minimum System Requirements for SC2:
Windows® XP/Windows Vista®/Windows® 7 (Updated with the latest Service Packs) with DirectX® 9.0c
2.6 GHz Pentium® IV or equivalent AMD Athlon® processor
128 MB PCIe NVIDIA® GeForce® 6600 GT or ATI Radeon® 9800 PRO video card or better
12 GB available HD space
1 GB RAM (1.5 GB required for Windows Vista®/Windows® 7 users)

Sry but your lappy can not run it, maybe try with SC:BW if you have ?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;14605308*
> Hey all, i havent been able to play much lately, i had a house fire and the flames took the life of my computer. I have this laptop though, im downloading SC2 now cause its the only thing i play. Its got an HD3200 an Athlon tf-20 1.6ghz cpu. and 3 gigs of ram. do you think ill be able to play? idc about graphics


I was able to get SC2 to install and run on my Thinkpad T42 from 2004 - Pentium M 1.7 GHz, 1.5GB RAM, Mobility Radeon 9600. It wasn't pretty, but I played a couple of games against the AI without any issues on completely minimum settings.

With that being said, I wasn't brave enough to ladder on that machine


----------



## CravinR1

Well my HP G60 230US will play it at minimum with no lag, played a 2vAI also

T4200 @ 2ghz
3 megs RAM (2048 + 1024)
Intel GMAX4500HD IGP


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;14605308*
> Hey all, i havent been able to play much lately, i had a house fire and the flames took the life of my computer. I have this laptop though, im downloading SC2 now cause its the only thing i play. Its got an HD3200 an Athlon tf-20 1.6ghz cpu. and 3 gigs of ram. do you think ill be able to play? idc about graphics


I believe you can on the lowest settings possible but I dunno what will happen in a large engagement :/


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14605387*
> You were supposed to destroy the Grack, not join him!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on HuK joining EG


Thats another stolen from reddit.

Geez this thread is basically screddit.


----------



## CravinR1

My image was stolen from a magazine :/


----------



## Sauce Boss

I'm gonna stop SC2. I'm getting really bored. All I'm doing is play a TON of ladder matches and not going anywhere.


----------



## CravinR1

You gotta practice and watch vids to get strats.

I got alot better playing 2v2 then I got better in 2v2 playing 1v1


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rurushu;14605398*
> I took a look at the replay you posted in another thread. Don't know how much you've improved since then, but here's some basic advice anyway:
> 
> 1) You don't seem to have a clear build order. That's probably the first thing I'd look up. I'm not too familiar with terran builds since I don't play it (nor am I a terribly high-ranked player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but I'm sure you can find something on Team Liquid, Liquipedia or even Youtube. At first, one very basic BO should be enough, later you'll want specific BOs for each matchup. To practice your BO, just play against the AI until you have memorized it.
> 
> 2)You're not using any hotkeys. At this point, you should have at least all your army on 1 hotkey (you'll want to change that later), all your production buildings on another key (or separate keys for each type of building if you want), and all your CCs on another key as well. Cycle through all these periodically and you'll see that your production will get much better. Which brings me to my next point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3)Constant production. You're not constantly producing out of your buildings, which makes your money skyrocket.
> 
> 4) Scouting. It's probably not very important at this level, but try to make a habit of constantly scouting so you know what your opponent is up to. As the game goes on and you have a lot of Orbitals, you can scan a lot more instead of dropping a gazillion of MULEs.
> 
> 5)If you feel threatened, don't hesitate to make more bunkers and pull SCVs to repair. You can salvage them after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6)If you have money, SPEND IT. If you see that a pro player only has 4 barracks at some point in the game, that doesn't mean you can't have more than that. Once your macro gets better, you'll naturally need less buildings.
> 
> 7)Abuse the crap out of Hellions while you still can. Seriously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, this is some very basic advice from someone who doesn't even play Terran (and barely plays at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Notice that I never mention micro. It's very fun to outmacro your opponent and then listen to how he whines about how you are a microless scrub


Hey, thanks







. That was a pretty noob game I posted, I think I've seriously improved sice then. I use hotkeys, have build order, do micro (even though I'm not too good at is), scout, have 3-4 rax min.. The prob is - i lose more









Maybe I'm just darn unlucky and hit mostly pro players in the past 2 days


----------



## rurushu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14606295*
> Hey, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That was a pretty noob game I posted, I think I've seriously improved sice then. I use hotkeys, have build order, do micro (even though I'm not too good at is), scout, have 3-4 rax min.. The prob is - i lose more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm just darn unlucky and hit mostly pro players in the past 2 days


Yeah, I guess that's the problem with the starter edition. You can't really choose who you play against in custom matches


----------



## VaiFanatic

Well, I've pretty much done mostly custom maps in SC2, but I figured I'd get back into normal ranked matches in 4s. My team just seems to get steamrolled because of a guy who's AFK, we're all the same race, or they somehow bum rush us.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14606060*
> I'm gonna stop SC2. I'm getting really bored. All I'm doing is play a TON of ladder matches and not going anywhere.


You can always go random to give Z/P a try, but, to each his own









2-2 today. Lost a TvsZ against BLs/infestors after trying to engage then I just lost the rest of my army to mass slings/BLs/infestors. Won 2TvsTs back to back then lost the last TvsT.

Let's put it this way: I've never played any ladder game that was as long as this last TvsT. It was an hour and 25min long







Both me and my opponent kinda wiped each other's bases out and kept harassing each other and losing our armies in the process. I would say losing my army of 8 tanks which I unsieged by accident(?) to his bioball was such a heartbreaking moment :/ I could've even won had I pushed out at that moment


----------



## VaiFanatic

Bleh, I used to be really good with Zerg, but now I can't seem to get a good build going.


----------



## Sauce Boss

I'm really bored with StarCraft









Please someone help me... I don't know what to do!! It'll take about 200 games before my MMR stabilizes and I don't have that time.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14609499*
> I'm really bored with StarCraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please someone help me... I don't know what to do!! It'll take about 200 games before my MMR stabilizes and I don't have that time.











Sorry had to, but, I was stuck in Silver in what seemed like forever. 100+ games as Zerg and nothing but Silver players. I thought maybe my MMR was stuck or from some of the threads I've read, maybe I tanked it and it's gonna take a lot to move it up but I started going on winning streaks. The last one was a 10 game win streak, then I lost a game, won two or three and got promoted. Point is, if you keep on winning constantly, then you'll get promoted easy


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14609595*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry had to, but, I was stuck in Silver in what seemed like forever. 100+ games as Zerg and nothing but Silver players. I thought maybe my MMR was stuck or from some of the threads I've read, maybe I tanked it and it's gonna take a lot to move it up but I started going on winning streaks. The last one was a 10 game win streak, then I lost a game, won two or three and got promoted. Point is, if you keep on winning constantly, then you'll get promoted easy


I know but wheres my motivation







?


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14609618*
> I know but wheres my motivation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


There isn't any







Go back and play the original like I do occasionally.


----------



## BigFan

^^He's 13, doubt he's played BW.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14609618*
> I know but wheres my motivation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Motivation? I dunno about you, but, I wanna have more interesting games and games become more micro intensive as you move up. I dunno your race, but, there is absolutely no way you could've tried everything possible with any/all races. Moving up, you get to experience different strats, more harass, etc.... and watching yourself develop and grow as a player is the motivation you need. That and the new icons you get


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14609678*
> ^^He's 13, doubt he's played BW.










This I didn't know.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14609678*
> *^^He's 13, doubt he's played BW.*
> 
> Motivation? I dunno about you, but, I wanna have more interesting games and games become more micro intensive as you move up. I dunno your race, but, there is absolutely no way you could've tried everything possible with any/all races. Moving up, you get to experience different strats, more harass, etc.... and watching yourself develop and grow as a player is the motivation you need. That and the new icons you get


14... stalker...

And in fact... I did play BW







I got it after SC2 of course. It was very very different from the original of course. I liked it though.

wut up


----------



## VaiFanatic

I found the concept of 1 and 2 to be generally the same. Then again, I've been playing the original since it came out, so it all kinda blends together.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic;14609860*
> I found the concept of 1 and 2 to be generally the same. Then again, I've been playing the original since it came out, so it all kinda blends together.


Well concept is the same duh...

But it just felt very different.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*


I found the concept of 1 and 2 to be generally the same. Then again, I've been playing the original since it came out, so it all kinda blends together.


Actually you felt it to be very similar because blizzard employs specific formulae for unit tier attack capabilities and regarding balance. Its quite interesting if you dig into it.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Razultull*


Actually you felt it to be very similar because blizzard employs specific formulae for unit tier attack capabilities and regarding balance. Its quite interesting if you dig into it.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S


Makes sense. Why alter what's already perfect? I do miss the old units though. I prefer medics over medivacs anyday. And lurkers were a great zerg tool that have been replaced by roaches.


----------



## murderbymodem

I just can't seem to win anymore...I'm on such a horrible losing streak that it's matching me up against Gold and Silver players...and I'm still losing...


----------



## Kreeker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I'll take the moment to strongly disagree







I play, and I lose. And I play some more, and I keep losing, despite the fact that I watch pro replays, follow pro advices and try not to repeat my mistakes. Then I play again, and I lose again, and in that whole cycle the only thing that happens is this:
I demonically desire to find the moron who came up first with the idiotic idea of "micro", tear his friggin head off and his guts inside out and burn his fingers with a blowtorch.

Then I calm down and I get back to losing again.










I'm assuming you're in bronze league. I'm sorry to tell you, but you don't have to micro to win a bronze league match.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


I just can't seem to win anymore...I'm on such a horrible losing streak that it's matching me up against Gold and Silver players...and I'm still losing...










Yeah, I find myself in ruts occasionally too. That's when I play some customs or a different game all together to refresh myself.


----------



## murderbymodem

As much as I don't want to, I think I'm going to have to take a long break and let my bonus pool build up. I've been laddering a lot lately, because I start school again in September. I set a goal for myself at the beginning of summer to be Diamond or higher by the end...but at this rate I might not even be able to keep my Platinum ranking.

but I suppose being demoted to Gold would be even worse than not meeting my goal of Diamond and staying in Platinum for a while longer.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14609834*
> 14... stalker...
> 
> And in fact... I did play BW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got it after SC2 of course. It was very very different from the original of course. I liked it though.
> 
> wut up


huh? You mentioned your age about 5 pages back








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic;14610161*
> Makes sense. Why alter what's already perfect? I do miss the old units though. I prefer medics over medivacs anyday. And lurkers were a great zerg tool that have been replaced by roaches.


I agree, although with medics now, I can see MMM becoming a lot harder to deal with. At least with medivacs, they only heal one unit but now you can heal all your MM and there are no lurkers/reavers to even out the numbers








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14610233*
> I just can't seem to win anymore...I'm on such a horrible losing streak that it's matching me up against Gold and Silver players...and I'm still losing...


Take a break then come back to play. It's helped me before


----------



## VaiFanatic

Yeah, MMM isn't a strat that seems to work for me, especially when I'm the only one of my team doing anything


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kreeker*


I'm assuming you're in bronze league. I'm sorry to tell you, but you don't have to micro to win a bronze league match.


Yeah, this goes as far as Platinum. All you need to handle is your Macro game first, Micro will only become important in Diamond and after.

Just keep constantly building those workers and don't let minerals build up, that's a good starting point.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*


Yeah, MMM isn't a strat that seems to work for me, especially when I'm the only one of my team doing anything










I dunno about team games, but, its still pretty viable with micro in 1vs1.

Getting disconnected from a TvsZ as you plan to move out is the worst feeling ever. Sad part is, he had a sling army with a single infestor at 25 energy. Compare that to my 30 marines, 3 tanks and 12 BFH. I would've roasted his slings as soon as they came in contact with marines and *possibly* done some serious eco damage if not outright take out his main then just drop him to submission or something. With that, I'm on a 4 game losing streak, meh I guess the run had to come to an end sometime


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ySMaqXQPgY


Yep, kinda disappointing though. I mean HuK and Idra on the same team, how's that gonna work? Feel sorry for Puma now


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ySMaqXQPgY


Does MLG need to release the VOD's?

I really want to see those three Huk v Idra games, preferably commented by Day[9]...

Can any1 help me out?

E:
Nvm, found it


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ySMaqXQPgY


Great, man! I didn't know other awesome dudes like me play SC2







I honestly imagine all of you as pimply teens


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Great, man! I didn't know other awesome dudes like me play SC2







I honestly imagine all of you as pimply teens










I think you need to forget about those stereotypes. I've never seen a pimply teen nerd stereotype gamer in my live. Ever.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop*


I think you need to forget about those stereotypes. I've never seen a pimply teen nerd stereotype gamer in my live. Ever.


I was just kidding







And BTW it was full of those types on the 7th Aug games.. Don't remember how the event was called. WoW and SC2.


----------



## Mwarren

I finally figured out how to play mech TvP. you have to play very aggressively with mech, I do hellions drops throughout the game while harassing with banshees and as soon as I scout twilight tech (the counter to mech based play because of archon/charge) I start to make thor/bc with ghosts. This annihilates the now pretty much standard chargelot/archon play style and if they switch to air they'll still lose.


----------



## CravinR1

I still think its another OP terran unit/ability to allow Ghosts to knock out energy and SHIELDS (which is half, or practially all in the case of the archon, the health of protoss units) as a area affect.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14615904*
> I still think its another OP terran unit/ability to allow Ghosts to knock out energy and SHIELDS (*which is half, or practially all in the case of the archon,* the health of protoss units) as a area affect.


Actually it's less than a third (100 vs 350) plus archons are big enough to absorb most of the EMP leaving other units untouched.


----------



## Sierpinski

Edit: misundertood what you were saying ignore this post.

[BLANK]


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14615242*
> I finally figured out how to play mech TvP. you have to play very aggressively with mech, I do hellions drops throughout the game while harassing with banshees and as soon as I scout twilight tech (the counter to mech based play because of archon/charge) I start to make thor/bc with ghosts. This annihilates the now pretty much standard chargelot/archon play style and if they switch to air they'll still lose.


At work, so can't see replay but how do you deal with high templars in this situation? seems like every unit is feedback prone. I'm curious about openings to midgame as you would need 3+ base to go here.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Just played a bronze player who beat me. After the game he said... "Your not a real bronze either are you...?" I said "No, I am real bronze." He said I'm acctually plat..." I almost died. I asked if he thought I was plat he said no at least gold.

Infinite Ego boost. *TL;DR Plat play thought I was gold, I'm bronze.*


----------



## Sierpinski

Lol well that just means you are a "Forever Bronze",

sux bro.


----------



## ronnin426850

Had a win TvT versus a bronze player on XelNagaCaverns. He went hellion + MMM + tanks, I went MMM + ravens and fortified exp at the rich minerals








Ravens are my new fav unit. He actually tried to ghost-rape and banshee-rape me, but failed miserably


----------



## poroboszcz

PvP is pretty fun nowadays.


----------



## ronnin426850

2v2 TTvTP, 15th minute when I poured 95 stimmed marines 4 marauders 4 medivacs in their base... Razed them. My god that feeling never gets old!


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sierpinski;14618086*
> Lol well that just means you are a "Forever Bronze",
> 
> sux bro.


Infinite Ego boost though...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14619631*
> 2v2 TTvTP, 15th minute when I poured 95 stimmed marines 4 marauders 4 medivacs in their base... Razed them. My god that feeling never gets old!



















Top 10 MLG Anaheim:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256124


----------



## BigFan

Since I hit my 100 game today as Terran in S3, I thought it'll be interesting to see my win % against the different races:


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Since I hit my 100 game today as Terran in S3, I thought it'll be interesting to see my win % against the different races:










How you get those stats







?


----------



## nitric0

Anyone wana 2v2? I'm a Plat/Diamond level Protoss. US/Canada


----------



## loop0001

throwing this out there but i am about to start playing this as a main game and doing 1v1s, but looking for opinions on a race to stick with..so far i have been bouncing around..

zerg - is wild and fun, but very challenging and i do get steamrolled alot, harder for me to use the classes well and most of all manage larvae..

terran- great standard, easier to learn, cant go wrong, but want something not so normal

protoss- most units feel like tanks, interesting playstyle, but i have a love/hate to the strength of cannons and it irks me.

any thoughts? 
i like all races but i want to specialize... i know that zerg is only a small % of the players online 10-15...which makes me want to play them more..very steep learning curve though.


----------



## nitric0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *loop0001*


throwing this out there but i am about to start playing this as a main game and doing 1v1s, but looking for opinions on a race to stick with..so far i have been bouncing around..

zerg - is wild and fun, but very challenging and i do get steamrolled alot, harder for me to use the classes well and most of all manage larvae..

terran- great standard, easier to learn, cant go wrong, but want something not so normal

protoss- most units feel like tanks, interesting playstyle, but i have a love/hate to the strength of cannons and it irks me.

any thoughts? 
i like all races but i want to specialize... i know that zerg is only a small % of the players online 10-15...which makes me want to play them more..very steep learning curve though.


How is your macro and micro?


----------



## loop0001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nitric0*


How is your macro and micro?


most likely crap lol best is to think that i am at the bottom, but learning fast and will game daily once my laptop arrives.


----------



## nitric0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *loop0001*


most likely crap lol best is to think that i am at the bottom, but learning fast and will game daily once my laptop arrives.


I would try maining protoss, it's not as punishing for macro compared to Terran or Zerg


----------



## loop0001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nitric0*


I would try maining protoss, it's not as punishing for macro compared to Terran or Zerg


good suggestion, thanks


----------



## clip+

Remember to macro your micro.

or micro your macro


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nitric0*


I would try maining protoss, it's not as punishing for macro compared to Terran or Zerg


Yeah, if you can make toast you can make it to masters as toss


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


remember to macro your micro.

Or micro your macro


mi/macroception


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


How you get those stats







?


http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Yeah, if you can make toast you can make it to masters as toss


rofl, are you still on about that?


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/









rofl, are you still on about that?











Herp derp son. I have SC2gears... but how do you activate that graph?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Herp derp son. I have SC2gears... but how do you activate that graph?


I pieced it together, so, I got the different tables and made them into a pic


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *loop0001*


throwing this out there but i am about to start playing this as a main game and doing 1v1s, but looking for opinions on a race to stick with..so far i have been bouncing around..

zerg - is wild and fun, but very challenging and i do get steamrolled alot, harder for me to use the classes well and most of all manage larvae..

terran- great standard, easier to learn, cant go wrong, but want something not so normal

protoss- most units feel like tanks, interesting playstyle, but i have a love/hate to the strength of cannons and it irks me.

any thoughts? 
i like all races but i want to specialize... i know that zerg is only a small % of the players online 10-15...which makes me want to play them more..very steep learning curve though.


Zerg will make you sad. They're crazy fun, but it feels like you have to try so hard to win against players that are worse than you.

If you wanna learn Zerg, check out Day9's video on Drone Timing, his casts on Idra, and most any Newbie Tuesdays.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14623106*
> http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rofl, are you still on about that?


Naw not really. I don't play too much anymore, really just working a lot and getting psyched for DOTA 2 and BF3.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14623783*
> Naw not really. I don't play too much anymore, really just working a lot and getting psyched for DOTA 2 and BF3.


ah







Oh well, was gonna ask if you wanted a couple of TvsZ games since there my fav









Either way, I'm also playing less as is everyone else it seems. I'm only playing more than usual since I'm close to breaking Plat but will stop once that happens







Might be giving BW another try afterwards though, since, the game is more focused on mechanics and has more micro than SCII ever will


----------



## Sangers_low

So many new posts D: Too busy these days







Btw, Why do i see so many korean players in AM gm list?


----------



## DoomDash

I think I may be quitting SCII.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14624269*
> So many new posts D: Too busy these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, Why do i see so many korean players in AM gm list?


Really? hmm, should check gm list more often








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14624525*
> I think I may be quitting SCII.


Why doom why!!!!!







I mean DIII isn't coming for another year or two








Well, if you do decide to quit, we should have a couple of games before you do. I'm stopping for a long time once Sept hits


----------



## DoomDash

There are just so many good games coming out near the end of the year this year ( Dues Ex, RAGE, Skyrim, BF3, SFxTekken, D3, Uncharted 3, Metal Gear Collection, FF13II, Ico collection, PSVita ect ) and with working I don't know if I will be able to be where I want to be anyway.

I will most likely return for HOTS but unsure of how serious.

Well everything is just speculation, I don't have the drive to play right now but maybe I'll get it again this isn't the first time I've thought about quitting.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14624676*
> There are just so many good games coming out near the end of the year this year ( Dues Ex, RAGE, Skyrim, BF3, SFxTekken, D3, Uncharted 3, PSVita ect ) and with working I don't know if I will be able to be where I want to be anyway.
> 
> I will most likely return for HOTS but unsure of how serious.
> 
> Well everything is just speculation, I don't have the drive to play right now but maybe I'll get it again this isn't the first time I've thought about quitting.


hehe, who can blame you? I'll be too busy and laddering is becoming a bit annoying now. I wish the system would just promote me already XD I've been playing Plats for the last 20-30 games easy and have >50% win rate but nothing yet. Just gotta have to play the waiting game I guess









Also, even though I've only played 102 games as Terran this season, the MUs seem all pretty familiar. Example of a game I played now:
Went 3 rax FE while my protoss opponent decided to camp outside. Went for two bunkers with tanks and lots of marines with 2-3 medivacs. I tried to get my exp up and running, etc.... and even made 9 BCs on 2 bases and was maxed with 2/2 for my MM. Anyways, I push out, stim, micro back to avoid ffs, clean up his units, send my BCs to his third which is just getting constructed while I engage his 2 colossi, 1 ht, 3 zealots and 2 sentries at the tower. Suffice to say, even with marines, the colossi went down easy and he gg'd








Most games against P go into SSC with some VRs added in(MMMTV counters this pretty well imo) and against T, its tank battles with some hellions thrown in. Against Zerg, it's pretty random though







I could get bane busted if I 3 rax FE but at the same time, my opponent could rush to BLs/ultras/infestors, etc.... so I guess I would much prefer if I can determine the MU that I want to play and just play that


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14624676*
> There are just so many good games coming out near the end of the year this year ( Dues Ex, RAGE, Skyrim, BF3, SFxTekken, D3, Uncharted 3, Metal Gear Collection, FF13II, Ico collection, PSVita ect ) and with working I don't know if I will be able to be where I want to be anyway.
> 
> I will most likely return for HOTS but unsure of how serious.
> 
> Well everything is just speculation, I don't have the drive to play right now but maybe I'll get it again this isn't the first time I've thought about quitting.


Same here, but I'd like to think of it as "taking a break" from sc2 rather than quitting all together







Come on, all of the games cept BF3 is single player based! Everyone needs at least ONE multiplayer game they can fall back on


----------



## Sangers_low

Btw, there are so many terrans in KR server, now my MMR is reaching the high master level D: For someone who's fav matchup is PvZ, it's awful ;(


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14615904*
> I still think its another OP terran unit/ability to allow Ghosts to knock out energy and SHIELDS (which is half, or practially all in the case of the archon, the health of protoss units) as a area affect.


Ya but storm is another OP protoss unit/ability that allows hts to take out large groups of units in a decent sized radius but that's not all. Ht's energy used up or emp'd, morph them into a powerful archon capable tanking over 30 marauder shots. That's right, you heard it here folks








See I can do something similar








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14624912*
> Same here, but I'd like to think of it as "taking a break" from sc2 rather than quitting all together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, all of the games cept BF3 is single player based! Everyone needs at least ONE multiplayer game they can fall back on


Agree, I think taking a break is probably the better term, although, it'll be a long break


----------



## CravinR1

Terran Strategy:

Mass Marines
Mass Medivacs
A Move to opponents base

WIN


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14625520*
> Terran Strategy:
> 
> Mass Marines
> Mass Medivacs
> A Move to opponents base
> 
> WIN


You're bad.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14624676*
> There are just so many good games coming out near the end of the year this year ( Dues Ex, RAGE, Skyrim, BF3, SFxTekken, D3, Uncharted 3, Metal Gear Collection, FF13II, Ico collection, PSVita ect ) and with working I don't know if I will be able to be where I want to be anyway.
> 
> I will most likely return for HOTS but unsure of how serious.
> 
> Well everything is just speculation, I don't have the drive to play right now but maybe I'll get it again this isn't the first time I've thought about quitting.


SP games don't count. They'll just give you a break which is good anyway. D3 and BF3 is another story, but I think they are more casual and not as competitive as sc2. I used to play D2 a lot, much more than sc2 at the moment, doing baal runs or torch hunting for whole nights, trading, etc. but I don't think it's going to be the case again.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14626059*
> SP games don't count. They'll just give you a break which is good anyway. D3 and BF3 is another story, but I think they are more casual and not as competitive as sc2. I used to play D2 a lot, much more than sc2 at the moment, doing baal runs or torch hunting for whole nights, trading, etc. but I don't think it's going to be the case again.


I think D3 will take a ton of my time.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14626295*
> I think D3 will take a ton of my time.


I hope it does







From what i've seen from bliz, the game doesn't look impressive.

Also, DRG


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14626857*
> I hope it does
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what i've seen from bliz, the game doesn't look impressive.
> 
> Also, DRG


Dongregu?

Sent from my HTC Incredible S


----------



## DoomDash

In Blizzard I trust, for now







.


----------



## Jared2608

Since this is a Starcarft 2 themed thread, I figured I could ask this...I was wondering what will happen when the next two chapters of SC2 launch. Will people who have Wings of Liberty be able to play against people with Heart Of The Swarm, or will you need the same version to play against each other. I was curious as to how blizzard will handle the ladders and rankings, since it's all been established on Wings of Liberty?


----------



## Xyxyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14627099*
> Since this is a Starcarft 2 themed thread, I figured I could ask this...I was wondering what will happen when the next two chapters of SC2 launch. Will people who have Wings of Liberty be able to play against people with Heart Of The Swarm, or will you need the same version to play against each other. I was curious as to how blizzard will handle the ladders and rankings, since it's all been established on Wings of Liberty?


That's a good question, and I don't think anyone will really know for sure, but we can speculate.

I suspect WoL can only play WoL, but those with the expansion can play against either HotS or WoL opponents depending on which version of the game they open. It is an expansion afterall, but don't worry I doubt I'll be (WoL) innocently trying to forcefield some zerglings who then all of a sudden leap up onto my cliff and start eating my probes.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14627055*
> Dongregu?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Incredible S


His GSTL performances are just incredible. 10-0 in this GSTL, and his winrate is like 90% overall.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14625520*
> Terran Strategy:
> 
> Mass Marines
> Mass Medivacs
> A Move to opponents base
> 
> WIN


Leave.

Please. This is not how you play StarCraft.


----------



## mr.derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14627486*
> Leave.
> 
> Please. This is not how you play StarCraft.


No it's how you play starcraft 2


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr.derp;14627681*
> No it's how you play starcraft 2


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr.derp;14627681*
> No it's how you play starcraft 2 against newbs


Fixed


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14627843*
> Fixed


Not sure you got the joke


----------



## Sauce Boss

Well at least a 6pool has a follow up tech. Mass marine is just MARINES MARINES MARINES.


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14627486*
> Leave.
> 
> Please. This is not how you play StarCraft.


I'm sure I can pull up replays where I've beaten players with pure marine/medivac. 3/3 stim/shield MM is still difficult to deal with especially if they're micro'd well. I've even played team games at high diamond level where I've done 10x rax with reactors and essentially swarmed marines in drops on the bases while my two team mates prevented any pushes.


----------



## DoomDash

Can you give me free wins on the ladder Darkmaster?

They are good in team games though







.


----------



## QuadDamage

I won my last few custom. I guess I am about Plat level, I really owned a gold and sliver level player, and I hold my own vs diamond or beat them. I don't see how I do ok, I don't scout and my amp is 40 to 60 most of the time and jumps to mid 100's during battles, but I do go in with a plan, I like 2 base anything and do a push about 10 or 11 mins in, or I counter after a fail push into my base


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm really looking forward to heart of the swam btw anyone else?


----------



## Sierpinski

Most definitely, I play Zerg as my main, so im excited for the new campaign.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14628763*
> I'm really looking forward to heart of the swam btw anyone else?


If they remove the Colossus and replace it with the Reaver it will be a dream come true. I can play random then







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14628763*
> I'm really looking forward to heart of the swam btw anyone else?


I don't. I sense massive OP coming zerg's way







Campaign seems stupid too from what I've seen on the teaser. So what? Raynor's missing and Kerrigan is still fighting for the zerg?







:buttkick:


----------



## BigFan

Let's see you guys mass marines and then get hit by storms -___-; It's not a pretty. I've had it happen before when I went marine heavy due to taking an early exp and lost my game as a result. Let's also see you try it when your opponent goes tank heavy with some MMM, unless u can split like a boss, GL surviving to get close enough to his tanks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14628763*
> I'm really looking forward to heart of the swam btw anyone else?


Looking forward to it as well.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14622419*
> Since I hit my 100 game today as Terran in S3, I thought it'll be interesting to see my win % against the different races:


hey bigfan can you teach me some strats for TvT its my worst match up lol (not that i really play 1v1 anymore...)


----------



## QuadDamage

My SC 2 rig be Jelly bro


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


My SC 2 rig be Jelly bro


















Not really. Everyone here has a nice gaming rig. Welcome to OCN.


----------



## HarrisLam

im jelly about his room though
so much space


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


im jelly about his room though
so much space


Yup, the only thing I really jelly about is Xfire 460s...


----------



## QuadDamage

Balling on a budget bro!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Let's see you guys mass marines and then get hit by storms -___-; It's not a pretty. I've had it happen before when I went marine heavy due to taking an early exp and lost my game as a result. Let's also see you try it when your opponent goes tank heavy with some MMM, unless u can split like a boss, GL surviving to get close enough to his tanks.

Looking forward to it as well.


I play mass marine







How to win vs Prot?


----------



## BigFan

^^MMM with stim, good positioning, knowing when to engage with some tank support and a raven for ppd if he's going stalker heavy. If he goes colossi, add in another starport and get some vikings with your medivacs and try to pick some colossi off with those abusing their range. That's really all there is to it. I'll see if I can upload that TvsP where I had to go against a zealot/stalker/colossi/VR/phoenix ball









Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


hey bigfan can you teach me some strats for TvT its my worst match up lol (not that i really play 1v1 anymore...)


I don't really have a strat. Long map games I try to FE and use bunkers to block my exp then get some gas and tanks asap with some turrets incase of a banshee attack. I keep scouting to make sure that he's not going for a stim drop.
As for short map, I'll go for a rax, get a quick fac with a reactor. Another 1-2 rax getting stim and shields then get a starport with a reactor(switch with fac) and get a quick banshee. Use that to harass a bit forcing turrets then go into marine+medivacs+tank production with the occassional banshee to take out unguarded tanks, etc.... I exp and well, roll with that composition throughout the game unless I have a lot of resources saved up at which point I try to get fusion core and BCs out


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14628274*
> Can you give me free wins on the ladder Darkmaster?
> 
> They are good in team games though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


haha mate, I didn't say they are the be all end all. I just disagreed that you can't win games with em







.

Only time I do a more or less all marine medivac game is if I plan on doing 3-5 prong drops which I probably can't do anymore since I haven't played in months.


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


My SC 2 rig be Jelly bro


Hmm, duno what I'm suppose to be jelly about bro.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^MMM with stim, good positioning, knowing when to engage with some tank support and a raven for ppd if he's going stalker heavy. If he goes colossi, add in another starport and get some vikings with your medivacs and try to pick some colossi off with those abusing their range. That's really all there is to it. I'll see if I can upload that TvsP where I had to go against a zealot/stalker/colossi/VR/phoenix ball









I don't really have a strat. Long map games I try to FE and use bunkers to block my exp then get some gas and tanks asap with some turrets incase of a banshee attack. I keep scouting to make sure that he's not going for a stim drop.
As for short map, I'll go for a rax, get a quick fac with a reactor. Another 1-2 rax getting stim and shields then get a starport with a reactor(switch with fac) and get a quick banshee. Use that to harass a bit forcing turrets then go into marine+medivacs+tank production with the occassional banshee to take out unguarded tanks, etc.... I exp and well, roll with that composition throughout the game unless I have a lot of resources saved up at which point I try to get fusion core and BCs out










You mean tech lab there? Can't get banshee out of reactor. Anyway, my point was, how to coutner the storms you mentioned? Cuz MMM will still get eaten, won't it? There isn't much of a diff between mass marine and MMM, when the storm won't give the medivacs a chance to heal anything









What does the storm, actually? I've never played protoss









(BTW 160 supply of stimmed marines + the occasional marauder owns pretty hard any tank or BC you put in its way) (if it got the attack and defense upgrades from the engineering) (gets pretty mean







)


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14630178*
> Yup, the only thing I really jelly about is Xfire 460s...


shouldnt you like the 2600K more?









i could really use some more space in my room....i mean look at this:










and this:


















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14630275*
> 
> I don't really have a strat. Long map games I try to FE and use bunkers to block my exp then get some gas and tanks asap with some turrets incase of a banshee attack. I keep scouting to make sure that he's not going for a stim drop.
> As for short map, I'll go for a rax, get a quick fac with a reactor. Another 1-2 rax getting stim and shields then get a starport with a reactor(switch with fac) and get a quick banshee. Use that to harass a bit forcing turrets then go into marine+medivacs+tank production with the occassional banshee to take out unguarded tanks, etc.... I exp and well, roll with that composition throughout the game unless I have a lot of resources saved up at which point I try to get fusion core and BCs out


that sounds complicated


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14630505*
> shouldnt you like the 2600K more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i could really use some more space in my room....i mean look at this:


There's another "post room pics" thread.


----------



## HarrisLam

i know, these WERE from there
just took them here since the other guy started it


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


shouldnt you like the 2600K more?









i could really use some more space in my room....i mean look at this:










and this:



















that sounds complicated










Larger Pic's BRO


----------



## QuadDamage

I just got that 27 inch monitor from dell for 220 not a bad deal to go with my other 26 inch just feels overkill, I know I don't have the best system just joking around bro

Deal with it bro









And come at me bro for the bro haters


----------



## DarkMasterMX

But bro I game on a 30" monitor from Dell. Which goes with my 2 24" ones. It feels like overkill I Know but hey a bro's gota be a bro!


----------



## ronnin426850

Meanwhile in SC2...


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


shouldnt you like the 2600K more?









i could really use some more space in my room....i mean look at this:










and this:



















that sounds complicated










Bro I love that you have bunk beds! Can I come over and bro it up! I call top bunk! We can play SC 2 and bro OUT all night BRO!


----------



## HarrisLam

just what the hell is this guy on.....

up top is all my parents suitcases and crap, ive been dreaming for years to get rid of this bed so that my room has double the space

anyway anyone signing up for a 4v4? i have time for 1


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


Bro I love that you have bunk beds! Can I come over and bro it up! I call top bunk! We can play SC 2 and bro OUT all night BRO!


Bad bromance is bad.


----------



## BigFan

Chill out bro!!!!!

BACK TO DISCUSSING SCII!!!!!

Popular singer/dance trying to become progamer, funny stuff:

  
 You Tube


----------



## HarrisLam

its funny how i started mentioning a 4v4 and there was silence for a good half an hour


----------



## CravinR1

Just reposting my SC2 ID, I'm high silver (been playing alot of golds recently, maybe i'm about to be promoted)

Cravin
911

I'm up for anything, I like to play teams, but will play 1v1 for the practice if anyone wants


----------



## ronnin426850

The colossi stalker zealot ball is making fun of my MMMT every chance it gets... 100% losses vs 1 stalker lost...


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


The colossi stalker zealot ball is making fun of my MMMT every chance it gets... 100% losses vs 1 stalker lost...


Once you see that those Colossi you need to pump some vikings. Scouting is key


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm streaming me and Cravin R1 playing 4v4s









www.twitchtv.com/cir3


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14633612*
> I'm streaming me and Cravin R1 playing 4v4s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.twitchtv.com/cir3


Did you want me to add this to the OP?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14634171*
> Did you want me to add this to the OP?


Yeah, that would be great ^_^

I got demoted to Gold league today


----------



## clip+

What's a programmer?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14634487*
> Yeah, that would be great ^_^
> 
> I got demoted to Gold league today


np, sorry to hear that








It's not that bad though, just play some more games taking breaks in between and you'll be back in Plat before you know it


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14634487*
> Yeah, that would be great ^_^
> 
> I got demoted to Gold league today


I'm in silver and I actually beat him today somehow


----------



## Fortunex

I'm a high silver Zerg, if you guys wanted to do 3s or practice or whatever.

Fortune.461


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14635360*
> I'm in silver and I actually beat him today somehow


Yep, I guess the best part of being demoted was that I ran into Cravin on ladder today. I was like "are you Cravin from OCN by any chance?".


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14623405*
> Zerg will make you sad. They're crazy fun, but it feels like you have to try so hard to win against players that are worse than you.
> 
> If you wanna learn Zerg, check out Day9's video on Drone Timing, his casts on Idra, and most any Newbie Tuesdays.


very true!







day9, and ill find that daily.
think i will hold with protoss until i have macro and micro more figured out then switch over when i feel more solid with SC2 as a whole.

Idra is such a freakin boss, but i hate his attitude..his ragequits almost discourage me from the game. will have to find another along side him to try and mimic. anyone know some strong Zerg players and a solid place to dl replays?


----------



## Fortunex

Being demoted sucks. Started in Silver, won like 7 out of 10 games, but got demoted on my last loss, then had to play for like 2 weeks to get back out of Bronze. I'm fighting and winning against most golds now, so hopefully a promotion is due this/next week.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loop0001;14635817*
> very true!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> day9, and ill find that daily.
> think i will hold with protoss until i have macro and micro more figured out then switch over when i feel more solid with SC2 as a whole.
> 
> Idra is such a freakin boss, but i hate his attitude..his ragequits almost discourage me from the game. will have to find another along side him to try and mimic. anyone know some strong Zerg players and a solid place to dl replays?


Compared to Zerg, Toss macro is a joke (imo). I was gold Toss in Season 2, started Zerg for S3, and was placed in silver, but quickly got demoted to bronze.

My favorite player is ROOTDestiny. He doesn't rage as hard as Idra, but he whines a lot (but also has some good arguments). He's fun to watch though, imo.

(explicit language, beware etc.)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVcpbwGZtVE[/ame]


----------



## Sauce Boss

I played a plat player who thought I was gold. I'm bronze.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14635866*
> Being demoted sucks. Started in Silver, won like 7 out of 10 games, but got demoted on my last loss, then had to play for like 2 weeks to get back out of Bronze. I'm fighting and winning against most golds now, so hopefully a promotion is due this/next week.
> 
> Compared to Zerg, Toss macro is a joke (imo). I was gold Toss in Season 2, started Zerg for S3, and was placed in silver, but quickly got demoted to bronze.
> 
> My favorite player is ROOTDestiny. He doesn't rage as hard as Idra, but he whines a lot (but also has some good arguments). He's fun to watch though, imo.
> 
> (explicit language, beware etc.)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVcpbwGZtVE


*ROFLMAO* "Root"Destiny

I was never demoted EVER







, not even when my gold rl friend lost like 20 games in a row. U JELLY?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14636624*
> I played a plat player who thought I was gold. I'm bronze.


The system's faulty as hell. The chances are that u were doing well AND the plat player was doing bad in his recent games.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loop0001;14635817*
> very true!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> day9, and ill find that daily.
> think i will hold with protoss until i have macro and micro more figured out then switch over when i feel more solid with SC2 as a whole.
> 
> Idra is such a freakin boss, but i hate his attitude..his ragequits almost discourage me from the game. will have to find another along side him to try and mimic. anyone know some strong Zerg players and a solid place to dl replays?


Idra discourages u from the game?







Well I guess watching him play badly and get owned does makes me all sad inside as a zerg







Some good zergs that stream are: ZenexCoca(his move to slayers is in progress), MStephano and LiquidRet.


----------



## Fortunex

LiquidRet is also great from what I've seen, I love his ling/muta play.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14636922*
> LiquidRet is also great from what I've seen, I love his ling/muta play.


<3 Ret. IMO best foreign (non-korean) Zerg player.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14636667*
> The system's faulty as hell. The chances are that u were doing well AND the plat player was doing bad in his recent games.


He was on a smurf account.


----------



## clip+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14636971*
> <3 Ret. IMO best foreign (non-korean) Zerg player.


Both dimaga and sheth wants to tell you to screw off.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14637402*
> Both dimaga and sheth wants to tell you to screw off.


Nerchio and Dimaga are in contention with Ret, but Sheth is not even close lol.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14636979*
> He was on a smurf account.


I plat smurfing as a bronze -_-


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14635866*
> Compared to Zerg, Toss macro is a joke (imo). I was gold Toss in Season 2, started Zerg for S3, and was placed in silver, but quickly got demoted to bronze.
> 
> My favorite player is ROOTDestiny. He doesn't rage as hard as Idra, but he whines a lot (but also has some good arguments). He's fun to watch though, imo.


thank for the link man, yeah i know that most likely i wont do well at all with zerg, but it's the most interesting by far so eager to learn.. need to get basic mechanics and playstyle down first though

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14636707*
> Idra discourages u from the game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess watching him play badly and get owned does makes me all sad inside as a zerg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some good zergs that stream are: ZenexCoca(his move to slayers is in progress), MStephano and LiquidRet.


i know it sounds odd, but it's mainly because of his idra's sportsmanship that is discouraging, even when he wins sometimes it feels like he is going for a vengeance thing..odd, but ill check out MStephano and Ret, thanks!


----------



## clip+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14637452*
> Nerchio and Dimaga are in contention with Ret, but Sheth is not even close lol.


I wouldn't know if anyone is as good as anyone, but big names will still tell him to screw off.


----------



## Fortunex

On a 9 win streak, 12 if I count some custom games vs a friend that I couldn't beat 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14637788*
> I wouldn't know if anyone is as good as anyone, but big names will still tell him to screw off.


I disagree any "big names" other than koreans would tell him to screw off. He is easily in contention for top 3 "foreign" zergs. He most recently took first place in EU b.net invitational, knocking out Nani and Thorzain, arguably the best European players of their respectable races.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loop0001;14637745*
> i know it sounds odd, but it's mainly because of his idra's sportsmanship that is discouraging, even when he wins sometimes it feels like he is going for a vengeance thing..odd, but ill check out MStephano and Ret, thanks!


If u don't like him, just watch any games of him verses a korean. I believe he's in a 12 loss streak against them since he left korea. Well, since he's going back to Korea to practise with Puma, Huk and maybe incontrol, he'll probably get better tho.

Stephano and Ret gets around 2k viewers and i believe their stream is featured in TL. Although Coca used to stream a lot, I don't see him these days. It could be something to do with sc2con being a dick and preventing players from streaming ;(. Shame, considering Coca is considered as a top class zerg and his monstrous PvZ.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14638327*
> If u don't like him, just watch any games of him verses a korean. I believe he's in a 12 loss streak against them since he left korea. Well, since he's going back to Korea to practise with Puma, Huk and maybe incontrol, he'll probably get better tho.
> 
> Stephano and Ret gets around 2k viewers and i believe their stream is featured in TL. Although Coca used to stream a lot, I don't see him these days. It could be something to do with sc2con being a dick and preventing players from streaming ;(. Shame, considering Coca is considered as a top class zerg and his monstrous PvZ.


Watching some BW games from some Korean on TL, it's kinda amazing how much the game shifts. No control groups makes the game harder yet the guy I was watching was in perfect control of his game. He even offraced as P instead of Zerg but lost to a strong T push with tanks+vultures+tons of spider mines. Either way, these guys put SCII gamers to shame







He was maintaining 250 throughout the game but was at 400 at some points, crazy high imo


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14638404*
> Watching some BW games from some Korean on TL, it's kinda amazing how much the game shifts. No control groups makes the game harder yet the guy I was watching was in perfect control of his game. He even offraced as P instead of Zerg but lost to a strong T push with tanks+vultures+tons of spider mines. Either way, these guys put SCII gamers to shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was maintaining 250 throughout the game but was at 400 at some points, crazy high imo


Hahaha u have NO IDEA.







Selecting maximum of 12 unit at a time, no worker rally, so had to physically click on the mineral patch for every worker, more difficult hotkeys that spanned over ALL of keyboard instead of the left side, no smart casting and firing for spell casters and ranged units making them much harder to macro and more unforgiving, and so many others.

Still, bw as a competitive game is FAR better than sc2 atm. Games are more fun to watch, including mirrors, and the game's more balanced than Miranda Kerr.

SC2 still has long way to go with 2 more expansion packs. The chances are, the foreign scene will die out by the time the game's balanced out and it'll be BW all over again, with koreans dominating every corner of competitive scene


----------



## ronnin426850

Why are koreans so badass?


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14638808*
> Why are koreans so badass?


Something about Starcraft being the only (or one of few) game with good multiplayer support when Korea's "internet boom" happened and internet cafes started opening up and stuff. That's what I heard, anyway.


----------



## T1nk3rb311

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14638681*
> Still, bw as a competitive game is FAR better than sc2 atm. Games are more fun to watch, including mirrors, and the game's more balanced than Miranda Kerr.
> 
> SC2 still has long way to go with 2 more expansion packs. The chances are, the foreign scene will die out by the time the game's balanced out and it'll be BW all over again, with koreans dominating every corner of competitive scene


I disagree. Just because you have to click on way more things because you can't have the game do them for you does not make the game a better game for comp. Besides... BW has been out a crap ton longer so there are like 100x the strategies that there are in SCII


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *T1nk3rb311;14638951*
> I disagree. Just because you have to click on way more things because you can't have the game do them for you does not make the game a better game for comp. Besides... BW has been out a crap ton longer so there are like 100x the strategies that there are in SCII


No, but it makes the skill cap higher, and that wasn't the reason why I said bw was a better competitive game. U said it urself, bw is more balanced and has more strats, and that's why bw is still a better competitive game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14639168*
> No, but it makes the skill cap higher, and that wasn't the reason why I said bw was a better competitive game. U said it urself, bw is more balanced and has more strats, and that's why bw is still a better competitive game.


The "competitiveness" shouldn't be defined by the skill to "click fast", but by the skill to build good strategies, to use the map, take tactical advantage, realise your and your opponent's strengths and weaknesses, ballance economy, production and spying.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> No, but it makes the skill cap higher, *and that wasn't the reason why I said bw was a better competitive game*. U said it urself, bw is more balanced and has more strats, and that's why bw is still a better competitive game.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14639298*
> The "competitiveness" shouldn't be defined by the skill to "click fast", but by the skill to build good strategies, to use the map, take tactical advantage, realise your and your opponent's strengths and weaknesses, ballance economy, production and spying.


*ROFLMAO*

SPL, GSTL, IEM going on at the same time and I only have 2 monitors










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



SPL and GSTL


----------



## QuadDamage

I'll play u bro join us in the overclocked.net chan


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Hahaha u have NO IDEA.







Selecting maximum of 12 unit at a time, no worker rally, so had to physically click on the mineral patch for every worker, more difficult hotkeys that spanned over ALL of keyboard instead of the left side, no smart casting and firing for spell casters and ranged units making them much harder to macro and more unforgiving, and so many others.

Still, bw as a competitive game is FAR better than sc2 atm. Games are more fun to watch, including mirrors, and the game's more balanced than Miranda Kerr.

SC2 still has long way to go with 2 more expansion packs. The chances are, the foreign scene will die out by the time the game's balanced out and it'll be BW all over again, with koreans dominating every corner of competitive scene


hehe, you're mistaken. I do have a good idea of how much harder and more competitive it is. I think being able to select a max of 12 workers, no smart casting, etc.... makes the skill cap pretty high. In SCII, I've had opponent mass storms my armies to death where in BW, they would've had to have crazy APM to do that. Different games I know, but, I still would love to have the lurker and reaver back with ff, cs and fg being reworked to allow microing out of them









BTW, from watching the stream, it looks like these are the new strats:
T: vultures+tanks(lots of spider mines as well







) against P
MFM+tanks against Z
P: Speedlots+dragoons against T with drops near tanks to take them out using the mines. hehe, use opponent's unit against him








Z: slings+mutas+lurkers+defilers against T
interesting strats, some mirrors to SCII(Z using similar but banes= lurkers and defilers = infestors). Likewise, dragoons = stalkers and we still see MMM+ tanks against Z especially no firebats now


----------



## QuadDamage

I started at SC 1 I only played BGH and TOS was so much fun SO DOPE!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


I started at SC 1 I only played BGH and TOS was so much fun SO DOPE!


TOS? I played BGH as well, same with fastest. I think the biggest game I played was 2vs6c, had such a blast. Too bad I don't have my old BW replays







Either way, thinking of hitting up iCCup for some BW games, maybe as Terran. Gotta say that I'm shocked at how damage tanks do, I mean 70!







I think with upgrades, it's +5, so, a max of 85, crazy good but they take forever to unsiege


----------



## DoomDash

I might have to play again after all, I got a razer spector ( the SCII mouse ) for free by buying an extra razer black widow ultimate ( which I will resell ).


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14643737*
> I might have to play again after all, I got a razer spector ( the SCII mouse ) for free by buying an extra razer black widow ultimate ( which I will resell ).


That mouse looks uncomfortable.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14643806*
> That mouse looks uncomfortable.


It looks appealing to me, it reminds me of my old VAIO mouse from 1998 lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14643806*
> That mouse looks uncomfortable.


Like all Razer. IMO at least.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14643846*
> Like all Razer. IMO at least.


Some of them are, but some are great. Logitech on average makes more comfortable mice, still, I love my Razer products.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14643868*
> Some of them are, but some are great. Logitech on average makes more comfortable mice, still, I love my Razer products.


Yeah I had a mamba and it felt great even in my fairly large hands.. ( thats what sh...... ok i wont.) And before that i had a death adder that was also nice. Then my mamba didnt die but the rubber on the sides started to slip off and i just couldnt take it. Bought a RAT 7 and it was nice but it died , before it died it would have horizontal tracking issues. Now i have a g700 and im liking it a lot.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14643868*
> Some of them are, but some are great. Logitech on average makes more comfortable mice, still, I love my Razer products.


Don't know, I find the diamondback to be horrible







Doesn't fit my hand at all. The Explorer 3.0 I'm using fits perfectly but is 1 bit too fat to move around







It'll have to do


----------



## Kreeker

lol nvm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14643737*
> I might have to play again after all, I got a razer spector ( the SCII mouse ) for free by buying an extra razer black widow ultimate ( which I will resell ).



















You guys speak of mice waaay too much







More SCII talk!!!!! That and a mouse can't break the game imo


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14644287*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys speak of mice waaay too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More SCII talk!!!!! That and a mouse can't break the game imo


Mine can







It has a bad capacitor or something like that, and time to time (once every 2 days) it starts jumping around until I re-plug it


----------



## Sauce Boss

I sorta want the Razer Spectre but I sorta don't...

For BigFan: SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14643846*
> Like all Razer. IMO at least.


How come? Deathadder is one of the best mice in the history of gaming.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14644287*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys speak of mice waaay too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More SCII talk!!!!! That and a mouse can't break the game imo


Its all about comfort, why do you think so many pros bring their own equipment to tourneys. I know i play better with a mouse and keyboard im used to, Its all about that meta game . Also i was bored and wanted to play a quick game V AI so i played a 2vAI hard my toss partner built 8 gateways ( researched warp but didnt transform any) and 3 stargates on one base. Had 4 zealots when the AI attacked ........ I held off two waves of AI with my roaches but had to build so many units i couldnt tech, When wave 3 came he had 1 void and 5 zealots...... Needless to say i rage quit on him


----------



## ronnin426850

Got a nice 2v2 TTvTT win streak. 6-7 rax 2-3 base, pumping 2-2-stimpack-shield marines (not 3-3, because the game usually ends too soon







).
Tanks? No problem. Stim + flank = annihilation. BC? Stim + chase = annihilation. Thors? Those remain pretty much static, so no difficulty there. Whole fortified exp, fortress + bunkers + tanks falls in under 15 sec. once I get the whole bunch of stimmed gorillaz in the center of it


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14644574*
> Got a nice 2v2 TTvTT win streak. 6-7 rax 2-3 base, pumping 2-2-stimpack-shield marines (not 3-3, because the game usually ends too soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> Tanks? No problem. Stim + flank = annihilation. BC? Stim + chase = annihilation. Thors? Those remain pretty much static, so no difficulty there. Whole fortified exp, fortress + bunkers + tanks falls in under 15 sec. once I get the whole bunch of stimmed gorillaz in the center of it


You gotta teach me that build, it looks something like this righ

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14644600*
> You gotta teach me that build, it looks something like this righ
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA










Exactly!! (how did u know lol?)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14644450*
> Mine can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a bad capacitor or something like that, and time to time (once every 2 days) it starts jumping around until I re-plug it


ouch, sounds like a bad mouse or something. Get another one?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14644486*
> I sorta want the Razer Spectre but I sorta don't...
> 
> For BigFan: *SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII SCII*


Excellent, kinda post I like!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14644556*
> Its all about comfort, why do you think so many pros bring their own equipment to tourneys. I know i play better with a mouse and keyboard im used to, Its all about that meta game . Also i was bored and wanted to play a quick game V AI so i played a 2vAI hard my toss partner built 8 gateways ( researched warp but didnt transform any) and 3 stargates on one base. Had 4 zealots when the AI attacked ........ I held off two waves of AI with my roaches but had to build so many units i couldnt tech, When wave 3 came he had 1 void and 5 zealots...... Needless to say i rage quit on him


Fair enough


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14644798*
> ouch, sounds like a bad mouse or something. Get another one?


Can't. Found and fixed off the garbage. Tape + glue + junk = miracle!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14644820*
> Can't. Found and fixed off the garbage. Tape + glue + junk = miracle!


Fair enough


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14644820*
> Can't. Found and fixed off the garbage. Tape + glue + junk = miracle!










:thumb:


----------



## HarrisLam

aww....was hoping to get some team games going...nobody is on lol
nobody plays on friday night? lol

by the way whats the best strategy(s) to go with protoss in team games? 3s or 4s?

Im practising protoss in teams, but my build order is so messed up i lack directions
what i usually do is 1 gate, core, then 2 to 3 more gates, pumping out a few units, warp finish and push out with a probe if rush

if team not rushing i expand right about warp finishes(if we aint dead yet)

after that I either go mass colossus+4 gate if against terran/zerg heavy, mass gates+colossus if against protoss heavy(a lot of NA team players are protoss for some reason, at least in silver NA that is)
i only go stargate when i saw voids from the other team, keep pumping stalkers until they're done

how can i strengthen my build? or what builds are better than mine?


----------



## BigFan

^^Sorry no clue









First BW battlereport: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=257009


----------



## Fortunex

Got promoted to Gold









Been all over leagues since I started about a month ago, started in gold as Toss, switched to Zerg for S3, was placed into silver, demoted to bronze, promoted back to silver, and finally worked my way up to gold.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Got promoted to Gold









Been all over leagues since I started about a month ago, started in gold as Toss, switched to Zerg for S3, was placed into silver, demoted to bronze, promoted back to silver, and finally worked my way up to gold.


GJ keep at it!


----------



## DoomDash

Since I quit SCII, can BigFan manage to get better than me before hots comes out?!?!?







I think no.


----------



## Sauce Boss

We should start an OCN team!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Since I quit SCII, can BigFan manage to get better than me before hots comes out?!?!?







I think no.


haha I refer you to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=257009


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


haha I refer you to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=257009










ROFL









Vulture tank for PvT with constant vulture use and mines, and mix Science vessels later.

Marine Medic Firebat(not many) for ZvT and mix Science vessels(sooner than pvt obviously)

Tank goliath or Tank Wraith for TvT

I can't write a bw guide in a bloody post, but just a basic idea


----------



## ronnin426850

So the original SC is having sort of a comeback lately?







That's nice since my netbook won't run SC2, but SC plays pretty good on it


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


haha I refer you to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=257009










What does that have to do with it?


----------



## ronnin426850

There is no person on this earth that can convince me Zerg is not overpowered.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


ROFL









Vulture tank for PvT with constant vulture use and mines, and mix Science vessels later.

Marine Medic Firebat(not many) for ZvT and mix Science vessels(sooner than pvt obviously)

Tank goliath or Tank Wraith for TvT

I can't write a bw guide in a bloody post, but just a basic idea










rofl, of course, read the comments







I already know that mech is the way to go for PvT but wanted to try bio for a couple of games to see how it went









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What does that have to do with it?


i.e. spending more time in BW than SCII now. I like the extra mechanics that you have to work with, makes winning that much more pleasurable imo


----------



## loop0001

SC2 is the one game now, can hold off the others for quite a while and happy with that. feeling happier with the fact that i am getting a higher APM, but now i want to start figuring out a solid build, need to do some searching around for proper set ups and some good replayes. righto that is all...laptop here in 2 weeks


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14653317*
> There is no person on this earth that can convince me Zerg is not overpowered.


Blue Flame Hellions


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14654243*
> Blue Flame Hellions


Zergling rush before factory is even finished


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14653097*
> So the original SC is having sort of a comeback lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's nice since my netbook won't run SC2, but SC plays pretty good on it


I bought SC when it was first released. I played it on:

K62 350 mhz
128 mb ram (or was it 256?)
10 gig HD
ATI Xpert @ Play 8mb GPU


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14654286*
> Zergling rush before factory is even finished


1/1/1 and wall off...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14653318*
> i.e. spending more time in BW than SCII now. I like the extra mechanics that you have to work with, makes winning that much more pleasurable imo


Oh god. Really? Give me a break you should stop wasting time in a game that is 10x harder than a game you are still bad at.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14655344*
> Oh god. Really? Give me a break you should stop wasting time in a game that is 10x harder than a game you are still bad at.


meh, says the guy who quit SCII







SCII has started to get stale to me now. I've already played enough Z/T games imo and not too interested to play as P so I decided to play an old time favourite and classic. BW is like a breath of fresh air


----------



## DoomDash

SCII BW. SC:BW was the love of my life but it's old and crappy now. The saying goes "Less clicky, more strategy". You know I always bring up my love for BW but I could never go back and play that game after playing SCII.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14655671*
> SCII BW. SC:BW was the love of my life but it's old and crappy now. The saying goes "Less clicky, more strategy". You know I always bring up my love for BW but I could never go back and play that game after playing SCII.


I know this sounds bizzare, but, the interface isn't actually that bad to deal with. I wasn't someone who actually played BW competitively, mostly played with friends/others against AI, so, I used to click everything, never once used a hotkey I don't think.
BW isn't too crazy different from SCII. You still have control groups, function keys, etc... The major difference is obviously the units(stats, some not in SCII, etc....), the fact that you can only select 8 units at a time, only 1 structure per group and can't select 20 hts to storm 20 times which I personally like because I don't think it helps the game for someone to just spam a key and click 20 times, less strat in that









BTW, SCIIBW is horrible. Played it several more times after you showed me the channel and such but I just can't wrap my mind around how everything has changed, etc.... That and I didn't think it stands well to the original. The old days of creating your own custom maps and playing them, used to do it all the time









Watch the first vod:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190074
This is what I like about BW


----------



## DoomDash

Already seen that video. Yes BW was awesome. SCII improved so much over BW. I do miss lots about BW but I am hoping they fix that in HOTS. I would think SCII is stale too if I was gold. It's only fun at master level or higher ^^.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14655864*
> Already seen that video. Yes BW was awesome. SCII improved so much over BW. I do miss lots about BW but I am hoping they fix that in HOTS. I would think SCII is stale too if I was gold. It's only fun at master level or higher ^^.


Did u see the 2007 Boxer vs. Flash vod?








Awesome game, was really surprised by the result. I'm hoping they fix it up in HoTS, lurker+reaver back, colossus out please!!!! At least, vikings won't have to be forced almost every TvsP like it is now. As for why it started to get stale, not really sure tbh. I can't say I wasn't having fun but TvsP and TvsT are starting to get a bit annoying with the same strat used over and over. TvsZ isn't bad but I don't get it as much although I do notice a lot more Zerg in Plat than when I was playing gold players. Does this mean I'm stopping SCII for good? nope but I definitely won't be putting in as much time as I was last week: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=256614

As for the league, I don't doubt it's fun at the higher levels. I've enjoyed playing SCII since release and still do, but, I just need a nice long break







I'll jump back on if not before the exps are out for sure though







As for BW, well, I don't have to worry as much about ranking and such since I'm starting out and can take my time to move up iCCup ranks, etc.... That and mech style with vultures+tanks is really intriguing









Edit: I did want to say that I had to rofl because Flash had mass turrets in his base against Jaedong in his one his games


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14654998*
> 1/1/1 and wall off...


I'll take the time to be epic n00b and ask: what is 1/1/1?







Google didn't help


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14657318*
> I'll take the time to be epic n00b and ask: what is 1/1/1?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google didn't help


1Rax, 1Fact, 1Port







Probably the most common Terran BO. Not more than one rax just straight to fact, this means early gas.

Also, can I cast someones game? I haven't casted in a while and I need one thanks


----------



## BigFan

BW battlereport: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=257251


----------



## HarrisLam

wow, just played a 3v3 where we did a little push, then turtle ass terran got like8 banshees out against my teammate, i got like 10 roaches unburrowed at my mineral line

took care of roaches after my nexus got destroyed, then the banshees got to my other base lol, he took that without taking out the cannons..

luckily i just got my 3rd base going (which i think nobody had a 3rd yet)

that terran thought hes ninja at the island and kept pumping vikings and cloaked banshees, but i managed to make a comeback with blink stalkers









what a great game...for my skill level at least lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14659177*
> BW battlereport: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=257251


Half of your shots have artifacts, brother







What's wrong?


----------



## Fortunex

I always thought ZvT was my worst matchup... Guess it's just my least favorite, even though I win against them a lot. They're usually not very fun unless I get to watch 80 marines get banelinged.

But dang I need to work on my ZvZ and ZvP. I should also change my map "bans" to Shattered Temple and Tal'Darim Altar.

Not doing too bad though, imo, considering I started a month ago and this is my first RTS.


----------



## AdamZed

^ what program gives those stats like in that picture? Or is that something that can be done within the game? I'd like to have something like that to check out my history

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AdamZed

Also wondering if anyone does a lot of team games, particularly 3v3, and what kinda strategies or tips you use. Right now I play majority of my games as part of a 3v3 team with my brother and my friend (best way to enjoy the game IMO).

We are only at rank 2 silver right now but are moving up quick and probably be high gold by tonight or tomorrow.

I play toss, bro plays Zerg and buddy plays Terran. Typical game so far has been to do a push at 5:30 with combined force of about 7 lots, 12-16 lings and 5-7 marines. Usually we hit one opponent and are able to cripple or destroy them before thier teammates arrive to help, and quite often even then we do significant damage to the teammates armies or buildings, putting us ahead economically. Where we are lacking right now is our mid game transitions.. Kind of lost as to which direction to head after that first push. Out Zerg likes to do heavy infestor/ling builds, I tend to just keep pushing gateway units and our Terran goes MMM or marines thors. Sometimes this works but sometimes not, we especially seem weak against air harass for some reason and usually lose to a strong air presense.

Anyways if anyone has advice or tips or strategies to share for 3v3 I'd love to hear them

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gonX

What do you do in ZvZ where the guy you're facing is doing the same build as you - Roach, Infestor and Zerglings? To me it just seemed like a micro battle, which I lost (even though I have ~280 APM in fights). I'm in gold league btw.

The guy I was playing against eventually went for Brood Lords - but I feel that if I had scouted a Greater Spire (I only saw a normal Spire and thought he went for Muta harass) I could have gone for Neural Parasite and won that way - so I feel that Brood Lords are not powerful enough vs infestors. What do?


----------



## AdamZed

ZvZ is the most annoying matchup lol I have no good answer to it

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Axon14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdamZed*


Also wondering if anyone does a lot of team games, particularly 3v3, and what kinda strategies or tips you use. Right now I play majority of my games as part of a 3v3 team with my brother and my friend (best way to enjoy the game IMO).

We are only at rank 2 silver right now but are moving up quick and probably be high gold by tonight or tomorrow.

I play toss, bro plays Zerg and buddy plays Terran. Typical game so far has been to do a push at 5:30 with combined force of about 7 lots, 12-16 lings and 5-7 marines. Usually we hit one opponent and are able to cripple or destroy them before thier teammates arrive to help, and quite often even then we do significant damage to the teammates armies or buildings, putting us ahead economically. Where we are lacking right now is our mid game transitions.. Kind of lost as to which direction to head after that first push. Out Zerg likes to do heavy infestor/ling builds, I tend to just keep pushing gateway units and our Terran goes MMM or marines thors. Sometimes this works but sometimes not, we especially seem weak against air harass for some reason and usually lose to a strong air presense.

Anyways if anyone has advice or tips or strategies to share for 3v3 I'd love to hear them

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, that's gonna win you 3v3 games pretty easily - one guy won't be able to handle three, especially in silver and even a little into Gold.

As to anti-air, you should scout more frequently, particularly when you have the upper hand. Even with good ground anti-air, a good player with a nice amount of air units can endlessly harass you on map corners. Are you guys expanding at mid or are you just pushing out the initial rush units on one base?

Anyway, terran should make vikings to compliment upgraded marines and you should look into phoenix or void ray/stalker. Zerg Hydra/Corruptor or Muta depending on the scenario.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdamZed*


^ what program gives those stats like in that picture? Or is that something that can be done within the game? I'd like to have something like that to check out my history


Starcraft 2 Gears.
https://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdamZed*


Also wondering if anyone does a lot of team games, particularly 3v3, and what kinda strategies or tips you use. Right now I play majority of my games as part of a 3v3 team with my brother and my friend (best way to enjoy the game IMO).

We are only at rank 2 silver right now but are moving up quick and probably be high gold by tonight or tomorrow.

I play toss, bro plays Zerg and buddy plays Terran. Typical game so far has been to do a push at 5:30 with combined force of about 7 lots, 12-16 lings and 5-7 marines. Usually we hit one opponent and are able to cripple or destroy them before thier teammates arrive to help, and quite often even then we do significant damage to the teammates armies or buildings, putting us ahead economically. Where we are lacking right now is our mid game transitions.. Kind of lost as to which direction to head after that first push. Out Zerg likes to do heavy infestor/ling builds, I tend to just keep pushing gateway units and our Terran goes MMM or marines thors. Sometimes this works but sometimes not, we especially seem weak against air harass for some reason and usually lose to a strong air presense.

Anyways if anyone has advice or tips or strategies to share for 3v3 I'd love to hear them

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The best 3v3 build, to my knowledge, is Toss/Zerg/Terran. I'm in 3v3 masters with a bunch of different teams by just 5-0ing my placements every time. I've even carried gold/plat players to it aswell.

Terran goes gas first, reactor hellion, zerg goes 10 pool speedling, toss 4gates or does ANYTHING, really.

The ling/hell comp will kill any early aggression and you will be able to at least shut down the zerg completely on their team, and maybe even another player. Once they come to counter attack, the protoss is left to macro so theyll have a pretty beefy army to keep you alive. Now you can just expand and macro since you're so far ahead. As the terran I usually just go double armory, pure siegetank/blueflame hellion.

The reason it works is that the speedlings can tank for the hellions, allowing them to splash all over the weak marines/speedlings/zealots of the early game.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;14662439*
> The best 3v3 build, to my knowledge, is Toss/Zerg/Terran. I'm in 3v3 masters with a bunch of different teams by just 5-0ing my placements every time. I've even carried gold/plat players to it aswell.
> 
> Terran goes gas first, reactor hellion, zerg goes 10 pool speedling, toss 4gates or does ANYTHING, really.
> 
> The ling/hell comp will kill any early aggression and you will be able to at least shut down the zerg completely on their team, and maybe even another player. Once they come to counter attack, the protoss is left to macro so theyll have a pretty beefy army to keep you alive. Now you can just expand and macro since you're so far ahead. As the terran I usually just go double armory, pure siegetank/blueflame hellion.
> 
> The reason it works is that the speedlings can tank for the hellions, allowing them to splash all over the weak marines/speedlings/zealots of the early game.


Depends on maps, but the best rush team is TZZ with double 10p and bf helion build. It'll also counter that tzp team u have there.


----------



## DoomDash

IEM:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Puma 3-0 vs MC







. Well played. Funny seeing the Protoss players complain on TL, even though long before 1-1-1 was considered "op" he beat MC anyway without it.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14664033*
> IEM:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Puma 3-0 vs MC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Well played. Funny seeing the Protoss players complain on TL, even though long before 1-1-1 was considered "op" he beat MC anyway without it.


huh? Puma did 1/1/1 for game no.1 and the last game. The second game was the only game without 1/1/1.


----------



## BigFan

^^I might be wrong but I believe he's talking about NASL finals and previous events








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14660710*
> Half of your shots have artifacts, brother
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong?


I just turned the sound up on my lappy and it kept that mark








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14662041*
> What do you do in ZvZ where the guy you're facing is doing the same build as you - Roach, Infestor and Zerglings? To me it just seemed like a micro battle, which I lost (even though I have ~280 APM in fights). I'm in gold league btw.
> 
> The guy I was playing against eventually went for Brood Lords - but I feel that if I had scouted a Greater Spire (I only saw a normal Spire and thought he went for Muta harass) I could have gone for Neural Parasite and won that way - so I feel that Brood Lords are not powerful enough vs infestors. What do?


It really comes down to a micro battle. Get some good FG on slings(should kill them outright) and the rest on the other roaches. IMO, if he goes for BLs, best to go for corruptors or if you won't have them in time, mutas. Not sure how well hydras would do so can't say if it's a good idea to try them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14664033*
> IEM:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Puma 3-0 vs MC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Well played. Funny seeing the Protoss players complain on TL, even though long before 1-1-1 was considered "op" he beat MC anyway without it.


Really? hmm, guess going to EG didn't destroy his work ethics just yet


----------



## Sangers_low

No he was talking about IEM, where MC got 3:0ed, as shown in the spoiler.
Puma did 1/1/1 for the first game and the last game, which he won because terrans could float the buildings









http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257536

I fully agree with this, even though I'm a zerg player.

EDIT: Also, he practises with TSL and his old partners, instead with EG


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14664433*
> No he was talking about IEM, where MC got 3:0ed, as shown in the spoiler.
> Puma did 1/1/1 for the first game and the last game, which he won because terrans could float the buildings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257536
> 
> I fully agree with this, even though I'm a zerg player.
> 
> EDIT: Also, he practises with TSL and his old partners, instead with EG


no no. He was talking about how Puma beat MC in the NASL finals without 1-1-1. The IEM comment was about him doing 1-1-1 in the first and last game and winning them both








I was just about to post that link







Too much QQ about 1-1-1 going on imo.


----------



## Alex132

It is interesting how the AM server is easier than the EU server, I am plat for AM and gold for EU 1v1.
I haven't played team games in AM server yet


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14664398*
> ^^I might be wrong but I believe he's talking about NASL finals and previous events
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just turned the sound up on my lappy and it kept that mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really comes down to a micro battle. Get some good FG on slings(should kill them outright) and the rest on the other roaches. IMO, if he goes for BLs, best to go for corruptors or if you won't have them in time, mutas. Not sure how well hydras would do so can't say if it's a good idea to try them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? hmm, guess going to EG didn't destroy his work ethics just yet


I should correct myself - he didn't use Speedlings - I did. I figured it'd be easier to use those to keep him in place (also because I was floating minerals like crazy because I was only pumping out Roaches and Infestors)

And thanks - I could probably have made a Spire myself but I didn't feel that I could afford the gas to go for Mutas or Corruptors.


----------



## CravinR1

Got placed in gold today, top 20's, then won vs a zerg and made top 10


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14664433*
> No he was talking about IEM, where MC got 3:0ed, as shown in the spoiler.
> Puma did 1/1/1 for the first game and the last game, which he won because terrans could float the buildings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257536
> 
> I fully agree with this, even though I'm a zerg player.
> 
> EDIT: Also, he practises with TSL and his old partners, instead with EG


BigFan has it right. I was referring to NASL, where Puma bested MC with out anything debatable as IMBA. Considering I rarely see 1-1-1 in GSL besides maps that are really awesome for it ( up to 3 ), I would hardly say its imba. If it was that imba Terrans would be using it quite a lot more than they are. If it fails its really hard to transition out of too, that's like any all in build.


----------



## DoomDash

Here is what LiquidTyler had to say about it:
Quote:


> *On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:*
> Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14665595*
> BigFan has it right. I was referring to NASL, where Puma bested MC with out anything debatable as IMBA. Considering I rarely see 1-1-1 in GSL besides maps that are really awesome for it ( up to 3 ), I would hardly say its imba. If it was that imba Terrans would be using it quite a lot more than they are. If it fails its really hard to transition out of too, that's like any all in build.


Agree, this 1-1-1 imba talk is ridiculous. Strat has been around since forever and I've used it plenty of times(mostly for a fast tank, etc...).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14665700*
> Here is what LiquidTyler had to say about it:


I agree 100%. Everyone thinks that they should get an early exp for an eco advantage but the fact is, without knowing what your opponent is up to, you're playing blindly and that's a cause for concern. Much better to go for something like 3 gate robo to get some units with an observer to get more info then exp behind it in comparison to 1 gate exp which is really risky imo but again I'm no pro


----------



## DoomDash

It's really Terran doing nothing more than abusing the current meta game, which involves Protoss players playing greedy.

I'm thinking about coming out of retirement to cash in on these Protoss tears.


----------



## yks

Here's what MVP has to say about it: It's IMBA.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257536&currentpage=4#70

or Slayers Alicia, "Why are you guys attacking Puma?" "You're right, we should be attacking David Kim."

Even my good friend Jediwin, but I'm too lazy to look for that chatlog

1/1/1, T_T


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14665595*
> BigFan has it right. I was referring to NASL, where Puma bested MC with out anything debatable as IMBA. Considering I rarely see 1-1-1 in GSL besides maps that are really awesome for it ( up to 3 ), I would hardly say its imba. If it was that imba Terrans would be using it quite a lot more than they are. If it fails its really hard to transition out of too, that's like any all in build.


I see it all the time, and I've always been saying it's strong. Also by watching streams of better protoss players (White-Ra, Puzzle, Hero, HuK, HwangSin) it seems to be one of the most common ladder TvP strats recently. Like literally every second terran they play does it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14666036*
> It's really Terran doing nothing more than abusing the current meta game, which involves Protoss players playing greedy.
> 
> I'm thinking about *coming out of retirement* to cash in on these Protoss tears.


hehe








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14666508*
> I see it all the time, and I've always been saying it's strong. Also by watching streams of better protoss players (White-Ra, Puzzle, Hero, HuK, HwangSin) it seems to be one of the most common ladder TvP strats recently. Like literally every second terran they play does it.


and? It's the natural building progression for Terran. I mean the only way to change 1-1-1 would be to change the building time for each building or maybe change a specific unit(make banshees cost more, etc....) but I don't believe any change is needed. I agree with doom, Protoss players thinking that they can get away with a greedy FE, got punished for it imo


----------



## Sauce Boss

No, 3rax all ins are imba. 1/1/1 is just a quick way to tech and terran late game tech is bawlin.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14666680*
> hehe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and? It's the natural building progression for Terran. I mean the only way to change 1-1-1 would be to change the building time for each building or maybe change a specific unit(make banshees cost more, etc....) but I don't believe any change is needed. I agree with doom, Protoss players thinking that they can get away with a greedy FE, got punished for it imo


And terrans are using it a lot more than doom seems to think, which was my point. Also what is recently being referred to as 1/1/1 is not just a 1/1/1 opening but an all-in timing attack based on this opening, often involving SCVs with siege tanks, marines and banshees plus raven.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14667068*
> And terrans are using it a lot more than doom seems to think, which was my point. Also what is recently being referred to as 1/1/1 is not just a 1/1/1 opening but an all-in timing attack based on this opening, often involving SCVs with siege tanks, marines and banshees plus raven.


Fair enough, maybe they are. I haven't been watching as many streams to be able to say but if it true is a problem, then we'll see more complaints about it from a lot of pros. So far, only ones we've heard from are MVP(imba), Tyler(not an issue) and I think there was one more


----------



## gonX

Instead of calling it 1/1/1 you should call it Destiny Cloud Fist to keep the memes alive


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14667180*
> Instead of calling it 1/1/1 you should call it Destiny Cloud Fist to keep the memes alive


NEVER!


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14667180*
> Instead of calling it 1/1/1 you should call it Destiny Cloud Fist to keep the memes alive


Brofestor Hit Squad.


----------



## ismet

I love game.


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ismet;14667844*
> I love game.


love game
love 1v1
love tower defense too


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14665595*
> BigFan has it right. I was referring to NASL, where Puma bested MC with out anything debatable as IMBA. Considering I rarely see 1-1-1 in GSL besides maps that are really awesome for it ( up to 3 ), I would hardly say its imba. If it was that imba Terrans would be using it quite a lot more than they are. If it fails its really hard to transition out of too, that's like any all in build.


Bah I'm not gonna argue with a terran fanboy, but did u actually see the games in NASL and IEM? NASL finals was VERY CLOSE with Puma getting ridiculous lucky in two games(charge snipe?) and IEM was 3:0.

The only people who doesn't call it imba are terrans. It's used in GSL ALL THE TIME, especially in code a, code b and up and down matches. Also, please look up stuff from tl about what actual pros have to say(ie.IMMVP)

You always use the "skill" card, but i doubt a NA master is better than a KR master or majority of korean pros who claim 1/1/1 is OP.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Who's on a 10 game win streak?

MOI


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14668820*
> Bah I'm not gonna argue with a terran fanboy, but did u actually see the games in NASL and IEM? NASL finals was VERY CLOSE with Puma getting ridiculous lucky in two games(charge snipe?) and IEM was 3:0.
> 
> The only people who doesn't call it imba are terrans. It's used in GSL ALL THE TIME, especially in code a, code b and up and down matches. Also, please look up stuff from tl about what actual pros have to say(ie.IMMVP)
> 
> You always use the "skill" card, but i doubt a NA master is better than a KR master or *majority of korean pros* who claim 1/1/1 is OP.


hehe, I'm confident that he watched NASL finals. Maybe I missed it but how did Puma get lucky in NASL finals? As I recall with the series tied 2-2, in game 5, MC built a pylon in the corner of Puma's base then constantly pressured Puma but he was able to hold. He built a nice MMM force adding ghosts in, taking the exp outside his base and traded armies for a while but he got the upper hand in an engagement and rolled MC's army taking out his exp and causing a GG.
As for IEM, I only got a chance to see game 1 because I couldn't find the rest :/ In that game, MC won the first engagement and was ahead(worker wise but 1 base only) but he made a huge mistake of moving in to engage the army before charge was done in the 2nd more dangerous engagement. He was able to take out the tanks/raven and some marines but that left him with 3 immortals against a marine army with a cloaked banshee for support.

Also, when the marines went into the base, he attacked them with 3 chargelots but there was a narrow choke so only one chargelot attacked at a time which was a HORRIBLE MOVE on his part and Puma lost nothing. Point is, MC got hasty in his 2nd engagement and lost as a result. The army size was still the same(supply wise), he just made mistakes and didn't wait for charge to finish. I think if he went for storms, maybe instead of charge, he would've chewed through that army since the marines were squeezed between the tanks and zealots but I dunno how that would've worked with the timing between the 1st and 2nd attack.

BTW, curious who are the majority of Korean pros? So far, only IMMVP has said that he believes that it's imba and we heard LiquidTyler believe it isn't and that its better to go for an opening that allows information gathering first but aside from that, there weren't other pros that spoke out. Maka said that he's tried the 1-1-1, but, he always losses with it









Found these little gems:
Quote:


> *On August 22 2011 12:24 Thorzain wrote:*
> Regarding the games between MC and Puma yesterday (Since I think that many people saw that and went "IMBA!!", I think that MC should have won both games. The first game he lost because he lost his initial observer and hence wasn't aware that Puma did not fall back on an expand but rather wanted to do a 2nd push. MC made probes and started teching instead of making units.
> 
> In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are **** vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs.
> 
> 1-1-1 is definitely strong but it is holdable with other builds than 1 base, 1 gate expo or nexus first if you play it correctly. In fact, nexus first is pretty bad against it in my opinion, unless the map is huge. If the Terran scouts it he can make a super fast tank + 8 marines or so and 3-4 scvs and attack right when you get warp gates (protoss will have like 4 stalkers 1 zealot and 30 seconds until more units because warp gate will be so delayed). Terran builds bunkers and reinforces.
> 
> I think that 1-1-1 all in will work as 4 gate /DTs / 6 gate eventually when Protoss players knows the best ways to fend it off. It's a strat that you always have to keep in mind. If you prepare against it you'll most likely defend it, but you can't be sure if it's coming so if it's not coming you have invested resources in the wrong area.
> 
> Terran needs to build bunkers and turrets whenever we're expanding just in case 4 gate, DTs or whatever comes our way.


Quote:


> *On August 22 2011 12:22 Milkis wrote:*
> Dunno, I asked Alicia and he's pretty convinced there's nothing Protoss can do against Terran if Terran doesn't make a mechanical mistake and know the optimal ways of dealing with Protoss reactions.


----------



## DoomDash

Don't argue with me, even Tyler probably the smartest Protoss I know says Protoss players are playing right into it.

Idra said infestors were OP and took it back, MVP probably just thinks its OP because Protoss haven't came up with any thing yet. Though I see games all the time from Korea and I still see 75% bio. Even in this Tournament he did 1-1-1 truely 2 games but only won with it once because of some strange decision making by MC. Game one MC held the 1-1-1 fine but threw the game away later.

It's so odd to see how many people keep saying its a problem even though they end up pretty even at the mid-game. Protoss players have been the quickest to complain about something with out really exploring options for awhile. Zergs do it more and longer, but I think they've had much more reason to complain. This 1-1-1 thing is nothing new and all of a sudden when Protoss think 1 gate expansion is the best build 1-1-1 is broken? Seems kinda illogical.

Thorzain has great insight as well. Look at his offerings compared to someone like Alicia who doesn't even really throw out ideas or examples.


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

I know that someone already have ask this, but just to know I really need it.

Which is "the best" or good active alternatives to play SC2 apart from the official Bnet server?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


I know that someone already have ask this, but just to know I really need it.

Which is "the best" or good active alternatives to play SC2 apart from the official Bnet server?


I may be wrong, but I think hacking SC2 to use other servers is against ToS of SC2 and OCN


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I may be wrong, but I think hacking SC2 to use other servers is against ToS of SC2 and OCN


Is it hacking actually? I think I've heard of other SC2 servers which are perfectly legal..







Don't know anyway..


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Quote:



Originally Posted by CravinR1 
I may be wrong, but I think hacking SC2 to use other servers is against ToS of SC2 and OCN


Please don't get confused I just wanna know an alternative way of playing the game, for example isn't it bad option to play in GARENA (it's not starcraft 2 BTW) so, don't get confused please. In some way is worth to test something before "investing" the money isn't it?


----------



## gonX

I think there's a starter version of Starcraft 2 that's free...


----------



## Far3nhe1t

Yes there is a starter edition. I have been playing it lately. Will get a lot more play once my new card arrives


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I think there's a starter version of Starcraft 2 that's free...


I think he's not asking for playing for free as a reason to change server, but more like just playing in another environment.. I might be wrong


----------



## CravinR1

sounds like he's asking for a way to play sc2 bypassing blizzard and not buying the game, which is definately against ToS (such as palying WoW on hacked free servers)


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Wow plz don't be fundamentalist cuz I think that EVERYONE here have been using something "bypassing" the normal paths. Again I've played in GARENA and it doesn't mean that I want to go against the law. Open your minds a bit plz







(not agressive comment)


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14671300*
> Don't argue with me, even Tyler probably the smartest Protoss I know says Protoss players are playing right into it.
> 
> Idra said infestors were OP and took it back, MVP probably just thinks its OP because Protoss haven't came up with any thing yet. Though I see games all the time from Korea and I still see 75% bio. Even in this Tournament he did 1-1-1 truely 2 games but only won with it once because of some strange decision making by MC. Game one MC held the 1-1-1 fine but threw the game away later.
> 
> It's so odd to see how many people keep saying its a problem even though they end up pretty even at the mid-game. Protoss players have been the quickest to complain about something with out really exploring options for awhile. Zergs do it more and longer, but I think they've had much more reason to complain. This 1-1-1 thing is nothing new and all of a sudden when Protoss think 1 gate expansion is the best build 1-1-1 is broken? Seems kinda illogical.
> 
> Thorzain has great insight as well. Look at his offerings compared to someone like Alicia who doesn't even really throw out ideas or examples.


Look back a few pages at your comments regarding broodlord infester play









that said i agree with you, same as i said regarding that, it "feels" imba right now because players have not worked out a really solid way to defend and punish it.

Not a balance issue but a scouting and responding issue. It will be really strong for a short while and then will become an unusual strat that comes up once every now and then to try and cheese a game off someone. Or to punish someone who is being too greedy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster;14672644*
> Wow plz don't be fundamentalist cuz I think that EVERYONE here have been using something "bypassing" the normal paths. Again I've played in GARENA and it doesn't mean that I want to go against the law. Open your minds a bit plz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (not agressive comment)


Regardless of any history user may or may not have of using questionably procured copies of software, it is still against OCN TOS to talk about them.

even if i wanted to help you steal games (which i dont) I wouldn't be able to without getting at least an infraction and quite possibly banned.

If you want to try the game out there is guest passes and the free play option which should be more than enough of a demo to make an educated decision.

If not I suggest you try a website that doesn't explicitly condemn the action you are looking to take.


----------



## Zackcy

Going to start playing this game. I miss RTS


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;14673787*
> Going to start playing this game. I miss RTS


You should.

Anyone wanna 1v1 that is silver-plat?


----------



## iambald

gold, why not

edit: my character code is iambald.371


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;14673978*
> gold, why not
> 
> edit: my character code is iambald.371


What race are you?


----------



## iambald

terran


----------



## QuadDamage

add me quaddamage 454


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;14674651*
> terran


Me too... and I don't do late game tech...


----------



## iambald

well I got to gold solely on mass marines lol. not even medivacs.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;14675532*
> well I got to gold solely on mass marines lol. not even medivacs.


I hate when people do this...


----------



## gonX

You can get to platinum just by using any all-in tac


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14675618*
> You can get to platinum just by using any all-in tac


Combatex does cannon rushes and proxy gates 70% of his games and he is in GM.


----------



## iambald

I read something on the teamliquid forums (I think) about a guy who 6pooled to masters


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14671300*
> Don't argue with me, even Tyler probably the smartest Protoss I know says Protoss players are playing right into it.
> 
> Idra said infestors were OP and took it back, MVP probably just thinks its OP because Protoss haven't came up with any thing yet. Though I see games all the time from Korea and I still see 75% bio. Even in this Tournament he did 1-1-1 truely 2 games but only won with it once because of some strange decision making by MC. Game one MC held the 1-1-1 fine but threw the game away later.
> 
> It's so odd to see how many people keep saying its a problem even though they end up pretty even at the mid-game. Protoss players have been the quickest to complain about something with out really exploring options for awhile. Zergs do it more and longer, but I think they've had much more reason to complain. This 1-1-1 thing is nothing new and all of a sudden when Protoss think 1 gate expansion is the best build 1-1-1 is broken? Seems kinda illogical.
> 
> Thorzain has great insight as well. Look at his offerings compared to someone like Alicia who doesn't even really throw out ideas or examples.


True true. Didn't Alicia totally mess up his games in the last MLG or something because I was hearing it didn't go too well for him but I agree that Thorazin gave some good points








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;14675637*
> I read something on the teamliquid forums (I think) about a guy who 6pooled to masters


hmm, I do recall someone 6 pooling to masters or maybe it was diamond








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14675636*
> Combatex does cannon rushes and proxy gates 70% of his games and he is in GM.


He does? Darn, should start watching his stream more often


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14675636*
> Combatex does cannon rushes and proxy gates 70% of his games and he is in GM.


CombatEX isn't THAT bad. He's just extremely BM


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;14673787*
> Going to start playing this game. I miss RTS


Pay for it or BE BANNED


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14675670*
> CombatEX isn't THAT bad. He's just extremely BM


He certainly isn't that good. I know I could take games off him pretty often, and my TvP isn't even very good atm.


----------



## BigFan

MC's tweet about 1-1-1:
Quote:


> *On August 22 2011 17:30 Jono7272 wrote:*
> Anyone able to translate MC's new twitter post on it?
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/oGsMC/status/105555872889053184


"I felt that I did not have command over the game. I acknowledge that my situational awareness and hand speed is slow, and I will work on perfecting them. By the way, the reason why 1/1/1 is so strong against Protoss, is because our AoE units are all tier 3. If only we had banelings..... those marines would be nothing."
[/QUOTE]


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14675874*
> MC's tweet about 1-1-1:
> 
> "I felt that I did not have command over the game. I acknowledge that my situational awareness and hand speed is slow, and I will work on perfecting them. By the way, the reason why 1/1/1 is so strong against Protoss, is because our AoE units are all tier 3. If only we had banelings..... those marines would be nothing."


Come on, I get 2 reactor rax up, and no matter how fast I pump marines out of them, stalkers still own me by the 5th min ingame. One website said that mass marine will always beat mass stalker. BS. Because the time I get 10 marines, toss has 7 stalkers which just rape the marines every chance they get. (not to mention zealots)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14675929*
> Come on, I get 2 reactor rax up, and no matter how fast I pump marines out of them, stalkers still own me by the 5th min ingame. One website said that mass marine will always beat mass stalker. BS. Because the time I get 10 marines, toss has 7 stalkers which just rape the marines every chance they get. (not to mention zealots)


Stimmed marines own stalkers. That and this is 1-1-1 and MC is tweeting, so, it's not a scrub


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14673945*
> You should.
> 
> Anyone wanna 1v1 that is silver-plat?


Sure I just made it from silver into gold league

Cravin 911
Protoss primary, some Zerg

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdke2VEBvGA[/ame]


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14676160*
> Stimmed marines own stalkers. That and this is 1-1-1 and MC is tweeting, so, it's not a scrub


No, they don't. Stimmed marines mean sacrifice 1 reactor for a tech lab (25% less marines production) OR build an EXTRA rax (sacrifice minerals for 3 marines) + heavy gas, less minerals => less marines.

+the fact that it's too early to have medivacs to cure the stim effect on HP, you get a small, knocked up force, which attacks good bu doesn't live long enough to bring down the stalker's sh** load of HP and shield.

+with an extra rax so early you give up on pretty much any macro

The only thing that saves early, early-to-mid terran from stalker-zealot rush, is blind luck.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Against pretty much all race I do 3rax expo siege w/ some meds. Its not a mass marine cheese









vP: 2 with tech, 1 with react
vT: "
vZ: 1 with tech, 2 with react

I push at around 60 food and if I have good macro I can push with sieges


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14676306*
> No, they don't. Stimmed marines mean sacrifice 1 reactor for a tech lab (25% less marines production) OR build an EXTRA rax (sacrifice minerals for 3 marines) + heavy gas, less minerals => less marines.
> 
> +the fact that it's too early to have medivacs to cure the stim effect on HP, you get a small, knocked up force, which attacks good bu doesn't live long enough to bring down the stalker's sh** load of HP and shield.
> 
> +with an extra rax so early you give up on pretty much any macro
> 
> The only thing that saves early, early-to-mid terran from stalker-zealot rush, is blind luck.


It's called a marauder with cs with some marines and a bunker if you are THAT worried


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14676365*
> Against pretty much all race I do 3rax expo siege w/ some meds. Its not a mass marine cheese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vP: 2 with tech, 1 with react
> vT: "
> vZ: 1 with tech, 2 with react
> 
> I push at around 60 food and if I have good macro I can push with sieges


Why don't you get run over while building the third rax/factory, like I do







I don't think I build slow, yet the base is full of protoss before I can even think of a siege tank..


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14673945*
> Anyone wanna 1v1 that is silver-plat?


Can't right now, but I'm up for playing later/whenever I'm free. Gold zerg. Fortune.461


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;14676394*
> Why don't you get run over while building the third rax/factory, like I do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I build slow, yet the base is full of protoss before I can even think of a siege tank..


Wrong timings.

As soon as the 13rax finished build one marine and AS SOON AS THAT MARINE IS DONE, instant tech lab. AS SOON AS THAT TECH LAB IS DONE, instant Marauder, Conc Shell, and second rax. 2nd rax finishes, reactor, 3rd rax. Constant MMs being made. Don't forget stim after conc. THEN expo. Late expos are okay or even 1 basing it is cool too.


----------



## Fortunex

Definitely work on your timings and practice your build order/macro if you're getting flooded with units while you don't have much up. Watch your replays to figure out if it's just having too much money, too little money with no SCVs being made, etc.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14676428*
> Wrong timings.
> 
> As soon as the 13rax finished build one marine and AS SOON AS THAT MARINE IS DONE, instant tech lab. AS SOON AS THAT TECH LAB IS DONE, instant Marauder, Conc Shell, and second rax. 2nd rax finishes, reactor, 3rd rax. Constant MMs being made. Don't forget stim after conc. THEN expo. Late expos are okay or even 1 basing it is cool too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14676732*
> Definitely work on your timings and practice your build order/macro if you're getting flooded with units while you don't have much up. Watch your replays to figure out if it's just having too much money, too little money with no SCVs being made, etc.


Thanks, will try that. (It's true that protoss that beat me are usually gold/platinum where I'm bronzish, low-silver max, but still







)


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Thanks, will try that. (It's true that protoss that beat me are usually gold/platinum where I'm bronzish, low-silver max, but still







)


Don't worry, you'll get there. Also, don't use 1/1/1 yet... It's meant for late game quick tech and the 3rax non-in.

BO should be something like...

10 Depot
12 Rax
13 Refine
15 Marine
18 Tech Lab
22 Depot
24 Maurader x2
26 Conc + Stim
28 2Rax (one with react and one with tech)
29 Expo (Optional)
30 Fact
30 Port

This is a ROUGH DRAFT of a 3Rax non-in you could call it









It just a quick way to macro a faster army. Remember that if your first push is unsuccessful, tech to siege and viking.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Don't worry, you'll get there. Also, don't use 1/1/1 yet... It's meant for late game quick tech and the 3rax non-in.

BO should be something like...

10 Depot
12 Rax
13 Refine
15 Marine
18 Tech Lab
22 Depot
24 Maurader x2
26 Conc + Stim
28 2Rax (one with react and one with tech)
29 Expo (Optional)
30 Fact
30 Port

This is a ROUGH DRAFT of a 3Rax non-in you could call it









It just a quick way to macro a faster army. Remember that if your first push is unsuccessful, tech to siege and viking.



Where's your orbital?

And as bronze should you be giving builds? I still need work on my builds and i'm in gold somehow.


----------



## Fortunex

Having a general idea of what to build will help you a lot with getting stuff done quickly in the early game.


----------



## BigFan

Builds aren't bad but that's a really detailed build. I don't follow one personally, just exp depending on situation, if I believe I can hold it, length of map, etc.... and make units as needed depending on MU.

Throwing this out there

















Happened after a TvsP on Altar where I went MMTV against a stalker+immortal+colossi+VR army. Won that but lost the next engagement due to his large immortal army then I rolled and his hts with marines, because, I had 12+ rax pumping XD I did have to dodge several storms and such but since dps of stalkers is rather horrible, my marines took the damage no sweat. That and I was 3/3 where he was 2/1/0









Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=258095


----------



## Fortunex

I usually follow a build order until around 21 food, depending on what build it is/what matchup. My longest one I have memorized stops at 44 food, but I usually don't play it all the way till the end, something happens that requires me to change it, or the game ends (it's a rush build).

And congrats







I'm hoping to be plat in the next 2 weeks as well.


----------



## CravinR1

I have my opening, but I change based on what race i'm playing and what map i'm on and whats happening

GENERAL OPEN:

9 Pylon
13 Gate (sometimes 12)
14 Gas
15 pylon (or 16)
16 or 17 cybernetics (based on when gate finishes)
16 zealot
18 gas #2 if I'm going gas heavy build

Then I add gates/robos/starports as situation calls for


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


I usually follow a build order until around 21 food, depending on what build it is/what matchup. My longest one I have memorized stops at 44 food, but I usually don't play it all the way till the end, something happens that requires me to change it, or the game ends (it's a rush build).

And congrats







I'm hoping to be plat in the next 2 weeks as well.


Even to 21 food is too long for me







I usually just go either 2 rax if against Zerg or add an extra rax with every SCV up to a max of 3 if I'm planning to FE and want to block my entrance to prevent bane busts. I think my Terran standard is 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 refinery then OC @ 16 with a marine at the same time(should be around 200 minerals if done right as I recall) then I just add more rax/fact/starport, etc.... from there









Thanks, just keep working at it, it'll come. Once you start facing plats nonstop, it means your MMR has reached the plat league and you just need to maintain 50/50 win rate. Personally, I recommend as high as possible but meh


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14681784*
> Where's your orbital?
> 
> And as bronze should you be giving builds? I still need work on my builds and i'm in gold somehow.


DAMN, I forgot to write that sorry.

It's just some advice. And I'm also in a bronze division where the #1 player has 881 points... yeah I know. I am also on a 15 game win streak.


----------



## HarrisLam

yea bro, being in bronze doesn't prove a lot, the system is at its weakest separating real beginners and ppl who just got stuck there.

i was had more than 200 games in bronze, and only like 20 games in silver and i got to gold right after that. players being experienced in bronze are quite capable in beating low gold players.


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14686002*
> yea bro, being in bronze doesn't prove a lot, the system is at its weakest separating real beginners and ppl who just got stuck there.
> 
> i was had more than 200 games in bronze, and only like 20 games in silver and i got to gold right after that. players being experienced in bronze are quite capable in beating low gold players.


I believe there are two types of bronze players.

1. Players who know what they are doing (70 APM players)
2. Players who have NO idea of what is going on (26 APM players)

I have roughly 98 apm


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14681936*
> Builds aren't bad but that's a really detailed build. I don't follow one personally, just exp depending on situation, if I believe I can hold it, length of map, etc.... and make units as needed depending on MU.
> 
> Throwing this out there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happened after a TvsP on Altar where I went MMTV against a stalker+immortal+colossi+VR army. Won that but lost the next engagement due to his large immortal army then I rolled and his hts with marines, because, I had 12+ rax pumping XD I did have to dodge several storms and such but since dps of stalkers is rather horrible, my marines took the damage no sweat. That and I was 3/3 where he was 2/1/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=258095


Congrats now we can ladder together bro









FREE Points EZ Mode jk buddy


----------



## Sauce Boss

I also can't wait to get out of bronze. I've been beating high silver players left and right for about 3 days now...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14686075*
> I also can't wait to get out of bronze. I've been beating high silver players left and right for about 3 days now...


I beat gold and plat players for 2 weeks before I got out of silver and into Gold (top 10 ATM)

They don't get in any hurry when it comes to advancement.

Last night me and my friend won 7/8 matches against plat (and a couple diamonds) 2's teams and we're still in gold


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss;14686058*
> I believe there are two types of bronze players.
> 
> 1. Players who know what they are doing (70 APM players)
> 2. Players who have NO idea of what is going on (26 APM players)
> 
> I have roughly 98 apm


i have roughly 40

and i was low plat in NA last season









I like to think of myself as a macro reactive player. My job didnt allow much play time so I studied how i should respond to my opponent's actions/army compositions. i do ok in making decisions and macroing up, but im terrible at handling harasses(even the scout worker harass...) and making units during battle(actually i think ive never done that, not even once







)

thats some nice APM you got there man...im sure soon enough you will be in plat, as long as you figure that *something* out

I got straight to gold just by realizing banshees can do wonders when mixed in the army even without cloak.

Bigfan and quad do you guys play team games? I can be as good as plat with protoss/terran in teams. I dont play 1v1s anymore. hook me up with some team games if you guys are interested


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats BigFan.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14686060*
> Congrats now we can ladder together bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FREE Points EZ Mode jk buddy


hehe, of course








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14686233*
> i have roughly 40
> 
> and i was low plat in NA last season
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like to think of myself as a macro reactive player. My job didnt allow much play time so I studied how i should respond to my opponent's actions/army compositions. i do ok in making decisions and macroing up, but im terrible at handling harasses(even the scout worker harass...) and making units during battle(actually i think ive never done that, not even once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> thats some nice APM you got there man...im sure soon enough you will be in plat, as long as you figure that *something* out
> 
> I got straight to gold just by realizing banshees can do wonders when mixed in the army even without cloak.
> 
> Bigfan and quad do you guys play team games? I can be as good as plat with protoss/terran in teams. I dont play 1v1s anymore. hook me up with some team games if you guys are interested


APM is really only useful if you are going for multiple drops with a main force marching across the map to his main while you macro at home. As in, you don't 9000 APM to do that. If this was BW, believe me, you'll need a ton of APM but with SCII, you can get into masters with as little as 60 or so depending on the race and how you handle battles, etc....







Unfortunately, I don't play team games so I wouldn't be able to help you there








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14686953*
> Congrats BigFan.


Thanks, it had to happen sometime XD I guess the goal of reaching diamond from S1 is closer than ever


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14681936*
> Throwing this out there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/BigFan_2008/LeaguePromotion.jpg


Congrats dude!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14688861*
> Congrats dude!


Thanks, one step closer to diamond and 2 to masters







Doubt I'll get there by Sept so maybe by Dec


----------



## Sauce Boss

I feel like stabbing my eyes... I've won 20 games in the last three days and lost 3. I am playing high silver players now and I lost to one silver player so far. HOPEFULLY a promotion soon.


----------



## Fortunex

After reading about how matchmaking works, I found out that you won't get promoted until your MMR (matchmaking rating) stabilizes, so you have to lose a couple to get promoted, otherwise your MMR will keep rising and the system will never be sure of how skilled you are. I won 25 out of 28 matches one day (all against silver players), and no promotion, then the next day I won 2, lost 2, won 1 more and got my promotion (from bronze into silver).

Theoretically, if one never loses, you could be in bronze but be up against masters players.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


After reading about how matchmaking works, I found out that you won't get promoted until your MMR (matchmaking rating) stabilizes, so you have to lose a couple to get promoted, otherwise your MMR will keep rising and the system will never be sure of how skilled you are. I won 25 out of 28 matches one day (all against silver players), and no promotion, then the next day I won 2, lost 2, won 1 more and got my promotion (from bronze into silver).

Theoretically, if one never loses, you could be in bronze but be up against masters players.


The system wants to make sure that he is good enough for the next league before promoting him. Theoretically speaking, you will never go from bronze to masters unless you were a masters player and are smurfing and trying to see how fast you can make masters again from a Bronze account. You don't need to lose to get promoted, the system will promote you when they feel you are good and ready


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


The system wants to make sure that he is good enough for the next league before promoting him. Theoretically speaking, you will never go from bronze to masters unless you were a masters player and are smurfing and trying to see how fast you can make masters again from a Bronze account. You don't need to lose to get promoted, the system will promote you when they feel you are good and ready










If you don't lose, your MMR will keep rising, the system won't promote you until your MMR stabilizes at a certain point, which requires you losing a couple matches.

At least that's how I understand it.


----------



## Ruckol1

Wanna ladder tonight a bit maybe Big? skype russ.culver


----------



## Sauce Boss




----------



## QuadDamage

I got diamond 4v4 as random today lol went muta into mass lings, all 4 off the other people put 4 to 6 turrets each! lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Wanna ladder tonight a bit maybe Big? skype russ.culver


hmm, tbh I dunno







I've been working on fixing up my sleep schedule so I'm planning to go to sleep much earlier, but, if I'm on, I'll be in the overclock.net channel and I'm always up for a game


----------



## CravinR1

Whats the funday monday?


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Whats the funday monday?


Day9... you have much to learn son, much to learn.


----------



## slinkski

just wondering if anyone wants to do some friendly 1v1-2v2 matches. Ill be honest I havent played multiplayer online in months (been sticking to custom maps, 1v1 AI, and video replays.)

Im usually available during the day anywhere between 10am and 2pm to play

Dont really know anyone who plays though so i dont have anyone to practice with. Send me a PM if you need a practice dummy.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Day9... you have much to learn son, much to learn.


..... What is it for this monday

I know what funday monday is, what is THIS COMING MONDAY's THEME


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14690583*
> If you don't lose, your MMR will keep rising, the system won't promote you until your MMR stabilizes at a certain point, which requires you losing a couple matches.
> 
> At least that's how I understand it.


you dont need to loose games or stabilise your mmr but you do need to play consistently if for example you win vs mr diamond player and then loose a game to a 6 pool vs johny bronze then the match making system has a high degree of uncertainty to where you should be placed, if you keep winning you will reach a state where your mmr is certain that you should be placed in silver, or gold or whatever.

A number of times when i've been promoted i've been on seriously long win streaks. I have also been promoted when im going roughly 50/50 in games though basically its looking for you to be consistent and perform as or above what it expects of you every time.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14692805*
> ..... What is it for this monday
> 
> I know what funday monday is, what is THIS COMING MONDAY's THEME


I don't believe he announced one, Newbie Tuesday week.


----------



## Sainesk

finally back, what did I miss in my 2 months or so of absence?

watched some gsl videos and I see a depot has been added to the bottom of everyone's main ramp?

and a ton of qq of terran 1-1-1 over on the bliz forums...

anything else interesting?


----------



## DoomDash

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14694615*
> finally back, what did I miss in my 2 months or so of absence?
> 
> watched some gsl videos and I see a depot has been added to the bottom of everyone's main ramp?
> 
> and a ton of qq of terran 1-1-1 over on the bliz forums...
> 
> anything else interesting?


I quit, bigfan made it to plat... but mostly toss qq.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slinkski;14692517*
> just wondering if anyone wants to do some friendly 1v1-2v2 matches. Ill be honest I havent played multiplayer online in months (been sticking to custom maps, 1v1 AI, and video replays.)
> 
> Im usually available during the day anywhere between 10am and 2pm to play
> 
> Dont really know anyone who plays though so i dont have anyone to practice with. Send me a PM if you need a practice dummy.


let´s play... add me as YuKsS


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14694394*
> you dont need to loose games or stabilise your mmr but you do need to play consistently if for example you win vs mr diamond player and then loose a game to a 6 pool vs johny bronze then the match making system has a high degree of uncertainty to where you should be placed, if you keep winning you will reach a state where your mmr is certain that you should be placed in silver, or gold or whatever.
> 
> A number of times when i've been promoted i've been on seriously long win streaks. I have also been promoted when im going roughly 50/50 in games though basically its looking for you to be consistent and perform as or above what it expects of you every time.


Pretty much this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14694615*
> finally back, what did I miss in my 2 months or so of absence?
> 
> watched some gsl videos and I see a depot has been added to the bottom of everyone's main ramp?
> 
> and a ton of qq of terran 1-1-1 over on the bliz forums...
> 
> anything else interesting?


Nice to have you back, there haven't been much changes. Hopefully you enjoyed your vacation though







The changes are pretty much what doom mentioned aside from me also playing as Terran in S3 now:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14695806*
> I quit, bigfan made it to plat... but mostly toss qq.


hehe, love them Protoss QQ tears. Thread in TL forums about 1-1-1 has hit 122 pages so far. Reading a huge amount of it(>50%







) a big portion is people just asking for nerfs to Terran aside the couple with possible strats to beat it. Bad feeling that some part might get nerfed but I dunno what. Hopefully they don't nerf the marine though!!









Nerf da mule, nah, nerf banshees(no cloak/make them do extra damage to light), scratch that, nerf marine(decrease range, make it an upgrade for 50/50 in Ebay) or nerf ravens(ppd only lasts 30sec). Some ppl even thought that Terran should change mule design(no oversaturation) or make cc unable to life off. Talk about changing Terran completely







Basically, most Protoss players replying are parroting the OP's stance of needing to have 1 gate exp to beat it otherwise you'll lose to it and claiming it as fact.

Sad part is, if any of them played BW, they would find that slings+lurkers+ultras+defilers(dark swarm) is really crazy imba against Terran but of course, no one's complaining


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14696691*
> Pretty much this.
> 
> Nice to have you back, there haven't been much changes. Hopefully you enjoyed your vacation though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The changes are pretty much what doom mentioned aside from me also playing as Terran in S3 now:
> 
> hehe, love them Protoss QQ tears. Thread in TL forums about 1-1-1 has hit 122 pages so far. Reading a huge amount of it(>50%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) a big portion is people just asking for nerfs to Terran aside the couple with possible strats to beat it. Bad feeling that some part might get nerfed but I dunno what. Hopefully they don't nerf the marine though!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nerf da mule, nah, nerf banshees(no cloak/make them do extra damage to light), scratch that, nerf marine(decrease range, make it an upgrade for 50/50 in Ebay) or nerf ravens(ppd only lasts 30sec). Some ppl even thought that Terran should change mule design(no oversaturation) or make cc unable to life off. Talk about changing Terran completely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, most Protoss players replying are parroting the OP's stance of needing to have 1 gate exp to beat it otherwise you'll lose to it and claiming it as fact.
> 
> Sad part is, if any of them played BW, they would find that slings+lurkers+ultras+defilers(dark swarm) is really crazy imba against Terran but of course, no one's complaining


If 111 is imba its. A design flaw not a balance issue. None of the units specifically are op. But potentially the option to change them up to make very unpredictable unit comps that protoss may have to respond to perfectly. Personally I think its just a meta game issue that will work itself out just like most of the constantly switching pvz meta game. If not and protoss can't figure anything out it will be addressed in protoss design in hots imo.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14696894*
> If 111 is imba its. A design flaw not a balance issue. None of the units specifically are op. But potentially the option to change them up to make very unpredictable unit comps that protoss may have to respond to perfectly. Personally I think its just a meta game issue that will work itself out just like most of the constantly switching pvz meta game. If not and protoss can't figure anything out it will be addressed in protoss design in hots imo.


Most QQ often ends up being meta game related.


----------



## DoomDash

One more reason to add the reaver and remove the colossus.. a high skill cap unit would be perfect at 111 timing. If the reaver does not replace the colossus in hots I will probably be super sad.


----------



## Sauce Boss

I'm having a hard time vT. My vZ is mainly BFH and marauders/w marines to take out the heavy zerg units. My vP is 3rax with Conc marauders (not an all in). I'll probably start 111 vT because TvT mid game always ends in one person losing to lack of tech.


----------



## Tranmillitary

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14697090*
> One more reason to add the reaver and remove the colossus.. a high skill cap unit would be perfect at 111 timing. If the reaver does not replace the colossus in hots I will probably be super sad.


you do know collos is 1000 times better then the reaver... reavers are slow and crawl... the collos is faster and can climb high ground..


----------



## Sauce Boss

Just beat a gold player. I'm still in bronze...


----------



## CravinR1

Here is a live fraps of me playing some friends. We were all in skype. Rage quit at the end (its only 4 minutes long so check it out)

I was being a jerk but you have to know the situation. Back when I was bronze/silver 1v1 I played Mavrick and he beat me and has rubbed it in for 6 weeks.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DHnjKD2HKU[/ame]


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14697882*
> Here is a live fraps of me playing some friends. We were all in skype. Rage quit at the end (its only 4 minutes long so check it out)
> 
> I was being a jerk but you have to know the situation. Back when I was bronze/silver 1v1 I played Mavrick and he beat me and has rubbed it in for 6 weeks.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DHnjKD2HKU


Most annoying laugh ever.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14696894*
> If 111 is imba its. A design flaw not a balance issue. None of the units specifically are op. But potentially the option to change them up to make very unpredictable unit comps that protoss may have to respond to perfectly. Personally I think its just a meta game issue that will work itself out just like most of the constantly switching pvz meta game. If not and protoss can't figure anything out it will be addressed in protoss design in hots imo.


Agree, it's not any specific unit that OP, just the different compositions that we can get from 1-1-1.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tranmillitary;14697557*
> you do know collos is 1000 times better then the reaver... reavers are slow and crawl... the collos is faster and can climb high ground..


nope, colossi is a JOKE! At least with reavers, you have to micro to get them to be effective but if you put in the effort, they are awesome to use. Colossi, you can just a move and it'll clean up the enemy with not much work on the Protoss' part. Agree with doom, hopefully they add the lurker and reaver back in and take out the colossi. BTW, who cares if the colossi can climb high ground?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14697090*
> One more reason to add the reaver and remove the colossus.. a high skill cap unit would be perfect at 111 timing. If the reaver does not replace the colossus in hots I will probably be super sad.


Indeed, I think a reaver would shut down 1-1-1 like crazy especially with all the marines clumped up. One reaver shot would probably kill half of them easy. My only concern with adding the reaver is with the better AI, it might be worse than BFH drops but it does give Protoss their own strong drops(BFH drops, bane drops and reaver drops). The only other thing I hate is that if reavers are added back in, I think TvsP might become similar to BW with mech and all but I like using bio


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ how are you fairing on ladder in plat bro?


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tranmillitary;14697557*
> you do know collos is 1000 times better then the reaver... reavers are slow and crawl... the collos is faster and can climb high ground..


You could transport reavers. Can't do that with Colo?

Imagine having a couple colo just show up in your mineral line and 1 shot all your workers. Reavers offered a different sort of utility than colo.


----------



## DoomDash

Posted these before but, Colossus this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRlFuNHraM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blMeBywzb50[/ame]


----------



## BigFan

Yep, good stuff








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;14698245*
> ^^ how are you fairing on ladder in plat bro?


tbh I haven't laddered since







I've been really tired lately, so, didn't wanna go on a losing streak right after getting promoted and then get depromoted back


----------



## Sierpinski

Agh I've had such a bad week in SC2.

Ive been playing extremely sluggish... cant figure out how to get back to normal clicking and movement.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sierpinski;14699291*
> Agh I've had such a bad week in SC2.
> 
> Ive been playing extremely sluggish... cant figure out how to get back to normal clicking and movement.


MOAR caffeine


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sierpinski;14699291*
> Agh I've had such a bad week in SC2.
> 
> Ive been playing extremely sluggish... cant figure out how to get back to normal clicking and movement.


I wear huge (noise-canceling) headphones. It helps my macro and keeps my focused.


----------



## clip+

I like collosusses

susssesses


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14699982*
> I like collosusses
> 
> susssesses


Collosooses.


----------



## Amo

Ugg, I guess I had better get srs about this game now. I went from practice league to platinum. >.<


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sauce Boss*


Collosooses.


Technically, Collossossees's would be the correct form... =)


----------



## clip+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amo;14700139*
> Ugg, I guess I had better get srs about this game now. I went from practice league to platinum. >.<


Cheese every game. Get to diamond in a day.


----------



## Amo

I don't even know any build orders, I just make mutas and roaches and lings.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amo*


I don't even know any build orders, I just make mutas and roaches and lings.


All Zerg should be platinum by default..


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I

I quit, bigfan made it to plat... but mostly toss qq.


why? I'm gonna miss you









aww dunno if I can random to plat... I really should learn how to play toss better :/


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


All Zerg should be platinum by default..


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH you so silly


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


All Zerg should be platinum by default..


----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14700666*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


I like collosusses


gross.


----------



## iambald

I love the people who just mass voids in random 4v4s


----------



## slinkski

should i be able to run sc2 on ultra 1920x1200 with my 560 ti?

Edit: nvm got my question answered. seems like i have a problem with my rig


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slinkski*


should i be able to run sc2 on ultra 1920x1200 with my 560 ti?



I don't see why not. I can do it on a 2560x1600 with a 5870 or on high at 1920x1200 with a 260m off my laptop


----------



## clip+




----------



## Sauce Boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;14701476*
> I love the people who just mass voids in random 4v4s


3-3 voids is amazing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slinkski;14701593*
> should i be able to run sc2 on ultra 1920x1200 with my 560 ti?
> 
> Edit: nvm got my question answered. seems like i have a problem with my rig


If my 5770 can max @ 1920x1080 w/40fps... then yes.


----------



## BigFan

Such an awesome game:
(T)Flash vs (Z)Jaedong, Grand Line SE, WCG Korea, Final, 1 Set
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=190074


----------



## Amo

So since I'm so new and am in plat anyone wanna help me get better with custom 1v1s? I don't want to tank my rating!


----------



## brl3git

Dem infestors and dem immortals

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Balance
> 
> General
> Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.
> 
> PROTOSS
> Immortal
> Attack range increased from 5 to 6.
> Mothership
> Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
> The Mothership's Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate "Mothership Lag" issue when a Mothership comes online.
> Stalker
> Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.
> Warp Prism
> Shields increased from 40 to 100.
> 
> TERRAN
> Barracks
> Build time increased from 60 to 65.
> Hellion
> Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.
> Raven
> Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
> 
> ZERG
> Infestor
> Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).
> Overseer
> Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
> Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.
> Ultralisk
> Build time decreased from 70 to 55.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14703716*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


WOW, crazy patch. Not sure why the ultralisk had to have the decrease but meh. Interesting to see immortals having a higher range than marines, guessing to get in to deal with the tanks in 1-1-1 and that unit vision up ramps decrease by 1 should help with defense but not a big deal.
Blink research increase time seems a bit off but nice buff for the prism, needed imo since they seem to die pretty fast. I can see prism usage increasing due to this. ROFL @ mothership increase in speed.

Kinda wish the hellion's upgrade damage was retained but if it helps stop ppl QQing so much, I'm all for it. Great that the seeker missile was changed, hopefully they are more useful now







Not sure how the rax build time increase makes a difference aside from a couple more seconds for defense for Zerg players and maybe one less marine for 1-1-1.

As for Zerg, AWESOME FG nerf. At least tanks can now survive 3 rounds and marines are close to surviving two. I think if you can micro medivac energy then all your marines can probably survive. 60 hp for 2 rounds, so, if you can get your medivacs to heal each marine twice(+6 hp), you can survive with one hp









YES FOR PTR!!!!! Guess who won't be sleeping tonight?


----------



## Vermillion

Im sad about teh fungals, was just getting into mass infestor shenanigans. Its not _that_ bad tho. Pretty excited about the ultra build time buff, they took sooo long to both save up the money for them, and then build, just to be kited by marauders in 15 seconds. lol, I keed









Better get my terran on while the hellions are still crazy good.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14704142*
> ROFL @ mothership increase in speed.


it's not a mothership speed increase. it's an acceleration increase. it's max speed is still the same.

the -1 vision from lowground is VERY nice tho for PVP


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14704486*
> it's not a mothership speed increase. it's an acceleration increase. it's max speed is still the same.
> 
> the -1 vision from lowground is VERY nice tho for PVP


oops, my fault. You are indeed correct, either way its acceleration was pretty terrible. At least, they might see more use now


----------



## clip+

Quote:


> Warp Prism
> 
> Shields increased from 40 to 100.


Oh my mouth is salivating. I also love to use mothership in PvZs when infestors are out. Looking good this ptr patch.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14703716*
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662


These seem a bit random. Blink openings are now going to suck in PvP. Time to go back to robo.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14706454*
> These seem a bit random. Blink openings are now going to suck in PvP. Time to go back to robo.


Dont think it was for pvp think it was a late reaction to the problems Z was having with blink-stalkers, but I feel thats kind of been dealt with now so...


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14706454*
> These seem a bit random. Blink openings are now going to suck in PvP. Time to go back to robo.


Even if they kept blink in as is,

the -1 low-ground vision and the +1 immortal range, totally changes PVP.

immortals now have same range as un-upgraded colossus.

I think the blink play will still be the same in PVZ too, at least for my +2 Blink build. It'll throw off my +1 Blink build tho


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14706626*
> Even if they kept blink in as is,
> 
> the -1 low-ground vision and the +1 immortal range, totally changes PVP.
> 
> immortals now have same range as un-upgraded colossus.
> 
> I think the blink play will still be the same in PVZ too, at least for my +2 Blink build. It'll throw off my +1 Blink build tho


Yea, you'll now change 6 gate + blink timing to 5/6 gate + immortals, which was already strong.

Going twilight first was a cool way to play PvP. On the other hand I think it will now be easier to expand behind immortals, but it's much more passive style.

I don't quite get the rax built time change. Was it for TvZ? It can potentially make zealot stalker pokes a bit stronger and terran gasless expand less safe.

Also contamination change is like totally random.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14706714*
> Yea, you'll now change 6 gate + blink timing to 5/6 gate + immortals, which was already strong.
> 
> Going twilight first was a cool way to play PvP. On the other hand I think it will now be easier to expand behind immortals, but it's much more passive style.
> 
> I don't quite get the rax built time change. Was it for TvZ? It can potentially make zealot stalker pokes a bit stronger and terran gasless expand less safe.
> 
> Also contamination change is like totally random.


yeah, i didn't understand those 2 either.

in PVP ima try to expand behind immortals into zealot archon immortals now. gonna be so much easier to make a concave now.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14706714*
> I don't quite get the rax built time change. Was it for TvZ? It can potentially make zealot stalker pokes a bit stronger and terran gasless expand less safe.
> 
> Also contamination change is like totally random.


I'm guessing it is for tvz yeah should make bunker rushes that much less effective as the 4 lings should be out before it hits.

contamination nerf is to go with the reduction of cost for overseers, guess they are worried about people building 3 or 4 overseers and just spaming contam on upgrades or colososus etc


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14692351*
> Whats the funday monday?


Quote:


> For anyone who wishes to attempt, Funday Monday is the following: only drones, queens, spinecrawlers, sporecrawlers, and overseers. gogogo!


according to twitter

 crazy one.

he also says its ok to build overlords in-case your feeling really stupid


----------



## Sauce Boss

Cool, now I am actually going to have to TRY to win.


----------



## DoomDash

Great patch







. Seeker missile needed a buff, Fungal was beyond stupid broken, Blink stalkers were pretty crazy though I am unsure if it will really help late game ZvP. Ultra time decrease is a nightmare for me. Immortals being 6 is good for toss, no more immortals just sitting behind stalkers idle.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14706755*
> I'm guessing it is for tvz yeah should make bunker rushes that much less effective as the 4 lings should be out before it hits.
> 
> contamination nerf is to go with the reduction of cost for overseers, guess they are worried about people building 3 or 4 overseers and just spaming contam on upgrades or colososus etc


Of course. I remember a funday monday with mass overseers where my friend used mass contamination. At the end of the game the other guy said he got humiliated and started to rage pretty bad. The funniest thing is that this game was then casted by day 9 who also made fun of him. They don't talk to each other since then.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14709576*
> Great patch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Seeker missile needed a buff, Fungal was beyond stupid broken, Blink stalkers were pretty crazy though I am unsure if it will really help late game ZvP. Ultra time decrease is a nightmare for me. Immortals being 6 is good for toss, no more immortals just sitting behind stalkers idle.


What about terran nerfs?


----------



## BigFan

Nice to see that doom agrees with the patch notes XD I agree, not sure why the 15 sec reduction in Ultra time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14706714*
> Yea, you'll now change 6 gate + blink timing to 5/6 gate + immortals, which was already strong.
> 
> Going twilight first was a cool way to play PvP. On the other hand I think it will now be easier to expand behind immortals, but it's much more passive style.
> 
> I don't quite get the rax built time change. Was it for TvZ? It can potentially make zealot stalker pokes a bit stronger and terran gasless expand less safe.
> 
> Also contamination change is like totally random.


Rax built time was for 1-1-1 so that its slightly delayed. Don't believe it's gonna make THAT much of a difference though.
As for contamination change, since, overseers are cheaper now, they expect more people to get them. They didn't want to have some go mass overseers(5-10) of them and constantly contaminate their opponents' base. The spell will become OP!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14709683*
> Of course. I remember a funday monday with mass overseers where my friend used mass contamination. At the end of the game the other guy said he got humiliated and started to rage pretty bad. The funniest thing is that this game was then casted by day 9 who also made fun of him. They don't talk to each other since then.


wow


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14709683*
> Of course. I remember a funday monday with mass overseers where my friend used mass contamination. At the end of the game the other guy said he got humiliated and started to rage pretty bad. The funniest thing is that this game was then casted by day 9 who also made fun of him. They don't talk to each other since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about terran nerfs?


Nothing I really care too much about. If it leaves my marine and sieged tank unnerfed I can't complain too much.

Only thing that really worries me is that Ultra change.


----------



## Sierpinski

I think the Infestor nerf was simply for Blizzard to pretend they are nerfing Infestors. Decreasing damage to 30 really doesnt change much at all. IMO


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss

Issuing new orders to charging zealots will cause them to lose the charge buff. I like this one









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sierpinski;14709945*
> I think the Infestor nerf was simply for Blizzard to pretend they are nerfing Infestors. Decreasing damage to 30 really doesnt change much at all. IMO


6 damage less, on say... 14 marines... that's 84 damage less... and 84~ energy less spent on a medivac ( I am not sure about that being true but in theory ).


----------



## Sauce Boss

Do you guys think I should buy a koeran acct for fun?


----------



## gonX

I wouldn't do it unless you're masters in NA. Not much to gain.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14710346*
> I wouldn't do it unless you're masters in NA. Not much to gain.


That and the latency is really high as well and you'll get trounced


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sierpinski*


I think the Infestor nerf was simply for Blizzard to pretend they are nerfing Infestors. Decreasing damage to 30 really doesnt change much at all. IMO


you dont think a 20% damage reduction is a nerf? thats pretty significant if you ask me.

the ultra buff is kind of well meh tbh dont see it increasing thier usefullness they will still only appear uber late game after you force too much anti air with broods.


----------



## DoomDash

I've played on Korea, it's a little slow but not that bad. I may getting an account but I'm already masters on NA. I went 3-0 in placements so far on KR.


----------



## Sierpinski

Well you can still 2Fungal marines, although they can heal through it, but you should have more than just festors anyways. It is a nerf but i dont think its really signifcant. The bigest affect it will have IMO is in ZvP, where it'll be a little harder to kill zealots and other protoss air. But still not a huge deal as its mainly used for rooting anything other than marines...


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


That and the latency is really high as well and you'll get trounced










It's not that bad. Destiny plays on Korean servers and is in Masters right now:
http://www.youtube.com/user/remembertomorrow0


----------



## BigFan

^^Nice, mostly going off what others were saying about latency and such.

hehe, Sovern, you being BM?








http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...ntpage=73#1455


----------



## DoomDash

Sovern has always been BM when he loses.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Sovern has always been BM when he loses.


really? I had no clue. hehe, surprised he didn't BM me when I won that ZvsT and TvsP a long time ago








Come on, get on. Let's get a game going!!!!!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


It's not that bad. Destiny plays on Korean servers and is in Masters right now:
http://www.youtube.com/user/remembertomorrow0


meh, I don't care much for Destiny. Overrated imo, but, nice to know that latency isn't too bad


----------



## CravinR1

Uploading the videos of me and my friend. So far we're at 6 games, I"m up 4-2

Be kind in the comments, I'm primarily a Protoss player and do some Zerg, I'm horrid with Terran (don't know any of their builds)

Here is game 2 (the shortest)

  
 You Tube


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Uploading the videos of me and my friend. So far we're at 6 games, I"m up 4-2

Be kind in the comments, I'm primarily a Protoss player and do some Zerg, I'm horrid with Terran (don't know any of their builds)

Here is game 2 (the shortest)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFDjZkdFew4


Few pointers:

- Be careful of the spamming in the early game. You don't have high APM so doing the pointless spamming is doing absolutely nothing - it's not even keeping on your toes.
- The location of your Pool in ZvZ is kinda important so that you don't get your Queen surrounded by lings. Try to do it next to a gas so that your Queen can kind of squeeze in between the geyser, the mineral line and the Pool, which forms kind of an 'U' shape around your queen, reducing the amount of surround they can get with their lings.
- Click the mineral patches instead of just right clicking their base location when scouting. Doing so allows you to run through blockades and get a clearer view of their base faster. Or if you _know_ you're doing ZvZ (you didn't here, admittedly), you don't need to go that far in, just check if they have creep - move around and see if they have gas (if they don't have gas ZvZ is pretty limited in terms of cheese), so you don't need to know more (although knowing the timing of their pool is beneficial). Just assume that if they haven't expanded by the 5 minute mark ingame, they're more than likely going to rush you of some sort (or they're in bronze/silver league and don't have a strat)
- Use waypoints more often. For example when you pull off drones at around 3:25 video time you should hold down shift and right click your mineral patches so that they can get back to mining once they finish holding off the attack. Also, two drones should be enough to take down a spine crawler unless you're late on spotting it. It also doesn't hurt to pull off drones that have minerals on them as long as you're not building anything with them - they're going to be returning them anyway.
- Don't put a spine crawler in his base once you have drone(s) following you. You're going to cancel it anyway.
- You probably already know this, but you want a Queen on 16 food, almost always. Don't Drone up when you're around that food mark - queue an Overlord first before getting your larva.
- If you're not getting an early Hatch, 14 pool is pointless.
- Same as with your Pool - try to minimize the surface area. Place the Spine Crawler next to your Hatchery instead of having it one block away. It reduces the amount of surround his Zerglings can get on it.
- Good call on getting the Evo Chamber once you saw double gas. He could have gone for Mutas.
- Hotkey your Queen. I didn't for quite a while and I ended up missing a lot of injects because of it. 
- You saw he went for an Evo Chamber, move your Overlord away if you see a building under your Overlord (you looked at it so I'm sure you noticed) - your Overlord can't get away if it finishes while it's on top of it.
- I don't know if you noticed, but your Lings were overpopulated when surrounding his Spine Crawler at the 6:35 video mark. Use the extra lings to get his Queen instead.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *gonX*   Few pointers:

- Be careful of the spamming in the early game. You don't have high APM so doing the pointless spamming is doing absolutely nothing - it's not even keeping on your toes.
- The location of your Pool in ZvZ is kinda important so that you don't get your Queen surrounded by lings. Try to do it next to a gas so that your Queen can kind of squeeze in between the geyser, the mineral line and the Pool, which forms kind of an 'U' shape around your queen, reducing the amount of surround they can get with their lings.
- Click the mineral patches instead of just right clicking their base location when scouting. Doing so allows you to run through blockades and get a clearer view of their base faster. Or if you _know_ you're doing ZvZ (you didn't here, admittedly), you don't need to go that far in, just check if they have creep - move around and see if they have gas (if they don't have gas ZvZ is pretty limited in terms of cheese), so you don't need to know more (although knowing the timing of their pool is beneficial). Just assume that if they haven't expanded by the 5 minute mark ingame, they're more than likely going to rush you of some sort (or they're in bronze/silver league and don't have a strat)
- Use waypoints more often. For example when you pull off drones at around 3:25 video time you should hold down shift and right click your mineral patches so that they can get back to mining once they finish holding off the attack. Also, two drones should be enough to take down a spine crawler unless you're late on spotting it. It also doesn't hurt to pull off drones that have minerals on them as long as you're not building anything with them - they're going to be returning them anyway.
- Don't put a spine crawler in his base once you have drone(s) following you. You're going to cancel it anyway.
- You probably already know this, but you want a Queen on 16 food, almost always. Don't Drone up when you're around that food mark - queue an Overlord first before getting your larva.
- If you're not getting an early Hatch, 14 pool is pointless.
- Same as with your Pool - try to minimize the surface area. Place the Spine Crawler next to your Hatchery instead of having it one block away. It reduces the amount of surround his Zerglings can get on it.
- Good call on getting the Evo Chamber once you saw double gas. He could have gone for Mutas.
- Hotkey your Queen. I didn't for quite a while and I ended up missing a lot of injects because of it. 
- You saw he went for an Evo Chamber, move your Overlord away if you see a building under your Overlord (you looked at it so I'm sure you noticed) - your Overlord can't get away if it finishes while it's on top of it.
- I don't know if you noticed, but your Lings were overpopulated when surrounding his Spine Crawler at the 6:35 video mark. Use the extra lings to get his Queen instead.  
When would you get your pool ?

Appreciate all the pointers and I'll definately work on these things. I do understand and see your reasoning for everything. I went evo chamber because he had one and I didn't want him to have more upgrades than me. I 14 pooled for the early hit.

I know the player in these videos. He's a gold/plat terran player but not great with the other races. He is getting better as toss, but cheese is all he knows with zerg. I play primarily protoss but have been doing more and more zerg recently. Though my mid/late game zerg is EXTREMELY weak.

If anyone would be interested in giving me lessons with zerg or toss I'd greatly appreciate it.

Cravin
911

I'm uploading the videos based on size, here is the next game:

Abridged version: ZvP, he tries to proxy gate me, I defend

  
 You Tube


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


When would you get your pool ?


depends on wether you hatch first but i tend to prefer a speedling expand unless its a realy big map, in which case i go 13 gas followed by 13 pool. not sure if thats the current perfect way to do it but it used to be standard and it seems to work out nicely with you having a natural break and 150 mins for your queen just as your pool pops


----------



## gonX

Depends on what you want to do. If you want to do Speedling harass you can get an 11 pool using the extractor trick (Destiny style) or get a 12 pool through ordinary means. 14 pool is only really viable if you only want to do some light harass while expanding (and you NEED to expand or you will be mineral capped like you were there). But it requires much more micro than 12 pooling does.

My own ZvZ sucks hard endgame since I'm really bad at macro so I don't feel like I can help you a whole lot. Infestors work really well if you have a lot of micro. If he's going mass Roach you need Infestors and hope to outmicro him, or eventually go for Brood Lords if you think you can tech for it safely.


----------



## BigFan

Going for 13 gas 13 pool is playing risky especially if its a ZvsZ because most Zerg go for a 10 pool then. I believe 15 hatch 14 pool is still the norm though in ZvsT/ZvsP, not sure if ZvsZ has changed since I last played the MU.

Finally decided to ladder again since I got the promotion to Plat. Went 1-2 though







Got contained in a TvsT, lost to colossi in TvsP(marines were just meh and siege mode didn't research ....) but finally won this TvsP










Got some nice probe in the match. My highest APM to date as well. What do you guys think of that marauder attack to snipe probes and what about the marine pickups during the final engagement?


----------



## CravinR1

I generally 14 pool 14 gas for speedling/lair

Thats what I was told was the best way for early lings?


----------



## ntherblast

Blizzard has become a carebear company they gave me a warning for this

Account Action:Warning

Offense:Obscene/Vulgar
This category includes both clear and masked language which:
Is crude and offensive in nature
Is an inappropriate reference to human anatomy or bodily functions
Is pornographic in nature

Details (Note - Times are listed in Greenwich Mean Time, GMT):

2011-08-25 03:42:34 Player ...en tool

Apparently someone is allowed to swear at me and if i swear back and don't report them and they report me i get a warning and also how is calling someone a tool have anything to do with human anatomy/pornographic?


----------



## CravinR1

the astericks are not allowed on ocn either, and I guess blizzard thinks the astericks are referring to the act of fornication


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14714980*
> the astericks are not allowed on ocn either, and I guess blizzard thinks the astericks are referring to the act of fornication


umm it was suppose to be the f word it wasnt filtered when they sent me the message but when i typed it on ocn it autofilters it....


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14715044*
> umm it was suppose to be the f word it wasnt filtered when they sent me the message but when i typed it on ocn it autofilters it....


http://www.overclock.net/view.php?pg=rulestos
Quote:


> Profanity
> 
> Profanity has no place in a professional environment and is not tolerated on the site. The use of acronyms, abbreviations, and symbols is treated the same as using the actual words. The use of profanity will result in warnings and infractions.


Even the astericks are symbols that will give you an infraction, if a mod sees the above expect a warning/infraction

http://www.overclock.net/2541569-post77.html

From the site owner himself:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admin*
> If you have **** appear in your post, you will get an infraction. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the asterisks are a reactive measure to someone breaking the rules.
> 
> Also, please do use spell check when posting here Our usability depends on it.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14715386*
> http://www.overclock.net/view.php?pg=rulestos
> 
> Even the astericks are symbols that will give you an infraction, if a mod sees the above expect a warning/infraction
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/2541569-post77.html
> 
> From the site owner himself:


I dont understand what you are getting at by posting the rules of this forum... You said that blizzard probably thought that that the word i used was in asterisks when i said it wasn't

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14714980*
> I guess *blizzard thinks the astericks are referring to the act of fornication*


when did i say blizzard used asterisks in the reply?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14714288*
> I generally 14 pool 14 gas for speedling/lair
> 
> Thats what I was told was the best way for early lings?


It's okay for early lings if you're also expanding. But you're floating minerals like crazy if you don't.


----------



## iradiation

Not gunna lie this game is a little intimidating to play for new players who wanna do 1v1. Though its fairly enjoyable I'd see never really getting old just hard to want to pickup when you've gotten rusty.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iradiation;14716954*
> Not gunna lie this game is a little intimidating to play for new players who wanna do 1v1. Though its fairly enjoyable I'd see never really getting old just hard to want to pickup when you've gotten rusty.


Agree, 1vs1 is pretty competitive









Guys, Free Silver Pass for MLG:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259099


----------



## raizooor3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14714770*
> Blizzard has become a carebear company they gave me a warning for this
> 
> Account Action:Warning
> 
> Offense:Obscene/Vulgar
> This category includes both clear and masked language which:
> Is crude and offensive in nature
> Is an inappropriate reference to human anatomy or bodily functions
> Is pornographic in nature
> 
> Details (Note - Times are listed in Greenwich Mean Time, GMT):
> 
> 2011-08-25 03:42:34 Player ...en tool
> 
> Apparently someone is allowed to swear at me and if i swear back and don't report them and they report me i get a warning and also how is calling someone a tool have anything to do with human anatomy/pornographic?


Just a formal email, you need a lot of those to start worrying.


----------



## CravinR1

Me and my friend have found a all in strat to sky rocket a team through the ranks.

The end of last month we were silver 2's, this month we've went from Gold to Plat #1 and are about to get into diamond. Yes I know I'll be in diamond in a couple days due to the fact we're 100% beating diamond 2's teams and 50/50 beating masters.

I'll add a video in about 1.5 hours when its uploaded to youtube (only 512 kb upload)

Basically I go zerg and my ally goes Protoss. Very easy to beat double toss, toss/terran easy, zerg + anything is difficult, especially double zerg.

I generally start harrassing around 3 minutes, he has 5 stalkers in their base with my lings at around 5:15 If possible I hit workers while he fights their army (unless my speedlings are needed to fight)

We went 11-4 tonight against diamond/masters (lost to 4 masters team, beat 2 or 3) in 2 hours


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14717697*
> Me and my friend have found a all in strat to sky rocket a team through the ranks.
> 
> The end of last month we were silver 2's, this month we've went from Gold to Plat #1 and are about to get into diamond. Yes I know I'll be in diamond in a couple days due to the fact we're 100% beating diamond 2's teams and 50/50 beating masters.
> 
> I'll add a video in about 1.5 hours when its uploaded to youtube (only 512 kb upload)
> 
> Basically I go zerg and my ally goes Protoss. Very easy to beat double toss, toss/terran easy, zerg + anything is difficult, especially double zerg.
> 
> I generally start harrassing around 3 minutes, he has 5 stalkers in their base with my lings at around 5:15 If possible I hit workers while he fights their army (unless my speedlings are needed to fight)
> 
> We went 11-4 tonight against diamond/masters (lost to 4 masters team, beat 2 or 3) in 2 hours


Why don't you just 6 pool and proxy 2 gate. You'd save yourself and your opponents some time. Also I don't believe in 5 stalkers in their base at 5:15.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;14717830*
> Why don't you just 6 pool and proxy 2 gate. You'd save yourself and your opponents some time. Also I don't believe in 5 stalkers in their base at 5:15.


5:15 is his best, 5:30 is about the latest ......... video will be uploaded in 30 min









In the video we're in his base at 5:30 but he's waiting for me

And the point is his stalkers can attack troops while I take walls down, and stalkers take marines and hellions and kite zealots, my slings can take stalkers and rines after the wall is down


----------



## CravinR1

11-4 vs diamond/masters teams (100% vs diamond teams, roughtly 50% vs masters)

This wasn't the best game, just the last one of the night that I decided to fraps. There is alot of "filler" but the game is from 1:20 to 6:12
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AHPpODcQY[/ame]

***** Been trying to remember GonX's pointers in my games *****


----------



## gonX

Looking good







I noticed you were floating some minerals again. You can usually safely expand when you're putting on that much pressure. Also allows you to put on extra pressure by moving into Roaches quickly.


----------



## Sauce Boss

I'm in the most annoying division every. The #1 spot is a player with 992 points.


----------



## Sierpinski

I need more skillz.

I find it really tough to manage a 4 base zerg army. I was playing a friend in ZvP and I wasn't able to reinforce well while he was attacking me. I lost track of my unit production and apparently I lost 8 infestors for no reason...

How can I improve managing my rally points and such? One thing i've been lacking is creep spread which should help a bit, but when I create units I want them to rally into a control group, but unless I spend all my larvae on the screen those will go into the group as well.

For example, I have 12 roaches and 20 lings on the field. I have 10 larvae. I make 4 roaches and hit Shift+2. Then I want to make 6 lings and put them in Control group 3, but the larvae will get messed up so they would be in 2 and 3 correct? Does this make sense? Its really easy when I spend all my larvae, but if not I get extra stuff in control groups. What do you other zergs do to maintain your control groups as you reinforce?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Looking good







I noticed you were floating some minerals again. You can usually safely expand when you're putting on that much pressure. Also allows you to put on extra pressure by moving into Roaches quickly.


That would give me more Larvae for zerg. Do you think maybe I should just make a second hatch in my base since I only have 10 drones?


----------



## Mwarren

Well Doom, it looks like there isn't much of a point in playing a macro game tvp at the moment. I've been doing Puma's variation of the 1/1/1 all in and haven't lost a game yet with it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Well Doom, it looks like there isn't much of a point in playing a macro game tvp at the moment. I've been doing Puma's variation of the 1/1/1 all in and haven't lost a game yet with it.


What is his build exactly? I am downloading PTR right now.


----------



## QuadDamage

All in's is all i See!


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


That would give me more Larvae for zerg. Do you think maybe I should just make a second hatch in my base since I only have 10 drones?


Making another hatch in your own base when you can safely expand would be a waste of 300 minerals. Just make it in your natural and drone up when you want to. Ideally you should be getting some drones too though.


----------



## ntherblast

I still don't see the point of 2v2 if you don't have a friend all i am facing is friends. Also how the hell do u win a protoss vs protoss match i play random and its the most annoying thing ever all it is who gets the most collosus first


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What is his build exactly? I am downloading PTR right now.


http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)EGPuma_...20110822/12733

You get rax factory starport then 2 more rax, optional banshee for harassment, raven, few tanks and spam marines, then a move to protoss natural with SCVs and make bunkers.

While my terran is probably around platinum level I tried that several times and beat diamond tosses ezpz with 60 apm execution.


----------



## QuadDamage

Rush DT's bro!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


Rush DT's bro!


Against raven opening?


----------



## DoomDash

A little preview of the new seeker missile from PTR I made:

  
 You Tube  



 
Forgot to put the speed on Faster, but you can still see it relative to the units movements.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


I still don't see the point of 2v2 if you don't have a friend all i am facing is friends. Also how the hell do u win a protoss vs protoss match i play random and its the most annoying thing ever all it is who gets the most collosus first


scout

I won a 1v1 today, I scouted and he was WAY behind me.
I had my gate first, my cyber way first and he was on 2 gates no cyber when I had 3 gates, cybernetics and warp.

Beat him with early aggreassion, 3 gate vs 4 gate.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


scout

I won a 1v1 today, I scouted and he was WAY behind me.
I had my gate first, my cyber way first and he was on 2 gates no cyber when I had 3 gates, cybernetics and warp.

Beat him with early aggreassion, 3 gate vs 4 gate.


what league are you in? Jeez the team maps from 2v2-4v4 are all so crappy especially the ones with 2 big ramps


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


what league are you in? Jeez the team maps from 2v2-4v4 are all so crappy especially the ones with 2 big ramps


Got promoted to gold a few days ago, currently rank 6

My first push the highest tech is a robo. I once had a DT come at me because I had gotten 3 gate robo and got obs first (good decision) and was waiting for my first immortal to finish before I hit. When I saw the DT I immediately went to hit

........ you can't build up a large ground force when you fast tech to DT and I had obs

Scouting has won me several games. One that comes to mind is I scouted a terran with early gas, then a minute or so later scouted he only had a few marines, so I dropped a forge and sent my army to hit. I destroyed his rines at the front, took out the starport add on that was researching cloak for his banshees and raped him


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14721705*
> What is his build exactly? I am downloading PTR right now.


Nice nice. Still can't wait to try it on PTR









MLG: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/live/sc2_red


----------



## Sainesk

Kachinsky has taken over the bliz forums...







made my day...


----------



## CravinR1




----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14723584*
> Got promoted to gold a few days ago, currently rank 6
> 
> My first push the highest tech is a robo. I once had a DT come at me because I had gotten 3 gate robo and got obs first (good decision) and was waiting for my first immortal to finish before I hit. When I saw the DT I immediately went to hit
> 
> ........ you can't build up a large ground force when you fast tech to DT and I had obs
> 
> Scouting has won me several games. One that comes to mind is I scouted a terran with early gas, then a minute or so later scouted he only had a few marines, so I dropped a forge and sent my army to hit. I destroyed his rines at the front, took out the starport add on that was researching cloak for his banshees and raped him


Umm I don't know about you but when i face toss they are spot on with the timings of builds and i always scout thats like the most basic rule i'm in diamond also


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14723970*
> Umm I don't know about you but when i face toss they are spot on with the timings of builds and i always scout thats like the most basic rule i'm in diamond also


Well the game I posted above I was still silver and he was gold.

But yeah in diamond fewer mistakes, but even in masters they don't sit back and mass. They harass and scout and expo, or turtle and mass. If you aren't harassing you should be massing


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14724105*
> Well the game I posted above I was still silver and he was gold.
> 
> But yeah in diamond fewer mistakes, but even in masters they don't sit back and mass. They harass and scout and expo, or turtle and mass. If you aren't harassing you should be massing


never said i wasnt:S


----------



## CravinR1

Yeah I learned mass colossus destroy mass immortals. I thought having 3/3 immortals + charge zealots would decimate colossus + stalkers ........ WRONG


----------



## BigFan

WOW, Huk vs. Coca, brilliant games. DOMINATION!!!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Game #1: Coca went for pool first on Altar against Huk's nexus then went for mass slings+infestors and FG Huk's army to death as well as NP'd his colossi, laid a ton of IT, etc.... He kept this up while taking his 3rd then 4th eventually overrunning him and barely losing any infestors.

Game #2: On XC, he went for crazy early bane drops. Huk lost a 4 zealot+11 sentry attack to maybe 30 slings even after ffing all around the army then CoCa expanded to the gold and he was roflstomped by slings+bane drops.


----------



## Amo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14724386*
> WOW, Huk vs. Coca, brilliant games. DOMINATION!!!!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Game #1: Coca went for pool first on Altar against Huk's nexus then went for mass slings+infestors and FG Huk's army to death as well as NP'd his colossi, laid a ton of IT, etc.... He kept this up while taking his 3rd then 4th eventually overrunning him and barely losing any infestors.
> 
> Game #2: On XC, he went for crazy early bane drops. Huk lost a 4 zealot+11 sentry attack to maybe 30 slings even after ffing all around the army then CoCa expanded to the gold and he was roflstomped by slings+bane drops.


Kiwikaki V Nada was just as epic!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amo;14724482*
> Kiwikaki V Nada was just as epic!


Was it? Who took it?(spoiler tag answer please







)

Edit: nm, they mentioned who won on the stream









Edit2: DRG vs. Trickster, even more awesome and was totally unexpected


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14724214*
> Yeah I learned mass colossus destroy mass immortals. I thought having 3/3 immortals + charge zealots would decimate colossus + stalkers ........ WRONG


lol i tried countering collosus with immortals before just doesnt work cause the short range on immortals


----------



## yks

got a free pass for this MLG. no ads and HQ and vods.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14722694*
> scout
> 
> I won a 1v1 today, I scouted and he was WAY behind me.
> I had my gate first, my cyber way first and he was on 2 gates no cyber when I had 3 gates, cybernetics and warp.
> 
> Beat him with early aggreassion, 3 gate vs 4 gate.


Yeah, I went against a toss the other day, 2:30 he had just put down his gateway, 5 or 6 minutes in and his core had just finished and he had 2 gateways total. I raaaaaped him.


----------



## CravinR1

Me and my son who has been playing for about a week or so were doing 2v2. I was zerg my son was Terran. The other team as zerg + toss. After we owned them (I have control of my son's units, he's great at building a army and I use them to attack) the zerg was saying he'd own me.

So we played 2 x 1v1.

Game 1:


Game 2:


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14725017*
> got a free pass for this MLG. no ads and HQ and vods.


Yep, really nice as well


----------



## yks

The crowd isn't cheering for NaDa as loud as I think they should be =[=[=[=[=[


----------



## CravinR1

Diamond 2's from our previously posted strat


----------



## slytown

Hero, Nerd baller.










Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


The crowd isn't cheering for NaDa as loud as I think they should be =[=[=[=[=[


That's because he hasn't won anything. All the hipsters know is the winners. Nada is boss and has been his whole career.


----------



## QuadDamage

2 monitors 2 streams loving it


----------



## Amo

I'm so sad that Puma is gonna win it for EG. Foreigner teams buying koreans to win tournies lolololololol!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14726498*
> The crowd isn't cheering for NaDa as loud as I think they should be =[=[=[=[=[


meh









Gotta love PTR. I played against the same guy three times in a row XD Bunkered his front then he broke through and steamrolled me with a stalker+immortal army. Then we had a PvsP where I decided to go for zealots+sentries only but he stole my 2nd gas and when we had our engagement I lost. Finally, a final game of ZvsP. I decided to 6 pool







He started explaining how to Korean 4 gate with planting pylons all over the opponent's base and then keep wrapping in zealots, etc.... At that point I told him, "Problem is, I'm Zerg







". He lol'd to that and saw the 6 zlings make their way towards his base, made 2 pylons+forge and tried to block but I just took out the probe, moved into the base and he's said "ok" and left








Roll me twice, get cheesed the last game, hehe. Sad part is, it was on Plateau cross positions and I made a 7th drone then an 8th, one by accident, the other intentional. Had some more ZvsP fun where I kept on macroing and making drones then getting roflstomped by some stalkers+colossi composition, etc.... Last game, ZvsT I was the one roflstomping my opponent. I had 50+ drones about 9:30min into the game and maintained around 60 drones in all my 6 bases







Even double exp'd but lost my 4th to a drop. He tried harassing my third just as it finished morphing but some slings+banes then I got some fungals off on 6 banshees and cleaned up with the mutas








After that, I pretty much dominated. Took several bases, went to hive with max melee upgrades. Brought out ultras, kept denying his 4th bases with mass banes and then I'll burrow a slings to prevent him from landing another cc. He went for biomech, marines+mass thors+(tanks to defend main). I brought out slings+banes+ultras+BLs+infestors. No complaining on my part, we both had a blast and he thought it was epic


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amo;14734966*
> I'm so sad that Puma is gonna win it for EG. Foreigner teams buying koreans to win tournies lolololololol!


I think DRG, Bomber and Coca are considered higher than Puma, but yeah, foreigner teams WITH money are buying korean players. (FXO, EG, Liquid, dignitas)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;14732792*
> That's because he hasn't won anything. All the hipsters know is the winners. Nada is boss and has been his whole career.


I thought it'd be "hipsters" who would know how much of a boss nada was back in sc1? But yeah, majority of sc2 fanbase are kinda dumb in their belief of who's actually good and bad. Nada in sc2 however, is just solid, but not that exceptional.


----------



## clip+

I'm cheering for select. go local koreans!


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Tbk3OshA4[/ame]

lolol. incontrol and idra switch personalities.


----------



## DoomDash

How is no one talking about MLG? Huk vs Trimaster game 3 was SICK. Same with DRG vs Bomber game 1.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How is no one talking about MLG? Huk vs Trimaster game 3 was SICK. Same with DRG vs Bomber game 1.


We're obviously too busy watching it







. and about it, I KNEW Puma was overrated as hell







How is a code s zerg an underdog against a terran who couldn't go through code b and ended up running away to a foreign team?

Bomber will probably take this, and DRG will take the Code S spot, seeing coca and Bomber are both Code s and puma won't likely beat DRG


----------



## HarrisLam

is it just me or does idra really looks like stewie griffin?


----------



## DoomDash

I think Puma is good at TvP and his TvZ was really unproven.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think Puma is good at TvP and his TvZ was really unproven.


Every decent Korean terran's good in tvp -_-. Save map bias, T is favoured in the matchup. Even decent terrans like Ryung can decimate the best PvTer ZenexPuzzle. The only terran who I believe we can call "good at TvP" is Optimus, and he's in a completely different class to puma. I don't rly understand the logical reason for his hype by Artosis, but he hypes random people for random reasons anyway >_>.(BW partner isn't a good reason lol)


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


How is no one talking about MLG? Huk vs Trimaster game 3 was SICK. Same with DRG vs Bomber game 1.


Thing is, my net has been slowly the whole weekend so I didn't catch those







I can't even get the stream to start working now, wonder what the issue is :/


----------



## DoomDash

Puma is good at TvT too though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Thing is, my net has been slowly the whole weekend so I didn't catch those







I can't even get the stream to start working now, wonder what the issue is :/


It's Canada.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Puma is good at TvT too though.


I can't recall many Puma's TvTs against good korean terrans. Could u list me some so I can check them out? Even so, i doubt he's anyway near top 10 TvT, considering he favours MMM and his marauder/marine control doesn't really compare to Optimus/MKP.


----------



## BigFan

Not sure about why you guys think Puma is overrated, he is a pretty amazing player imo.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Puma is good at TvT too though.

It's Canada.


Yes, he's pretty good. Well, got the stream working on IE, maybe its something with firefox


----------



## clip+

Did select make the cut?


----------



## BigFan

Nada vs. HuK:
CRUSHED HuK 2-0, awesome timing in the 2nd game


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


Did select make the cut?


Lost to Nada.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I can't recall many Puma's TvTs against good korean terrans. Could u list me some so I can check them out? Even so, i doubt he's anyway near top 10 TvT, considering he favours MMM and his marauder/marine control doesn't really compare to Optimus/MKP.


http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/105322

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101586

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101587

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101411


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clip+*


Did select make the cut?


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...ircuit/Raleigh

Quote:



Not sure about why you guys think Puma is overrated, he is a pretty amazing player imo.


He's decent and solid, but artosis overhypes him, and considering his performance in korea and his opponents/play in his NA tournaments, i think he's below top 10 terran.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Lost to Nada.


Really? hmm, nice, nice


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...ircuit/Raleigh

He's decent and solid, but artosis overhypes him, and considering his performance in korea and his opponents/play in his NA tournaments, i think he's below top 10 terran.


Thanks for link, I dunno about Puma though. There are a lot of good Terran in Korea, hard to say where he ranks imo


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/105322

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101586

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101587

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/gosubet/101411


I've watched all of them except the first one. MKP and Optimus aren't exceptional TvTers and considering how well TSL and NSH do in team leagues, I think it's safe to say GSTL doesn't reflect as a personal success.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Nada vs. HuK:
CRUSHED HuK 2-0, awesome timing in the 2nd game










I watched that, and as he moved out I was like "how the hell is he gonna stop that?" Short answer, he didn't.


----------



## DoomDash

I think all those guys are as good as TvT you are going to get outside of MVP. I think what you should have said is, has he beat MVP in a TvT?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think all those guys are as good as TvT you are going to get outside of MVP. I think what you should have said is, has he beat MVP in a TvT?










hehe, anyone know what stream is Bomber vs. CoCa on? Missed the Bomber vs. DRG, so, I don't wanna miss that


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think all those guys are as good as TvT you are going to get outside of MVP. I think what you should have said is, has he beat MVP in a TvT?










GSTL wins isn't rly a demonstration or qualification of gsl sucess, with the exception of MMA and DRG, but they WERE pretty crazy dominant. MKP and Optimus' Tvt record in gsl is 40 and 45 percent and comparing them to MVP and Bomber level who has 70% win rate is just plain stupid.


----------



## Sangers_low

BTW, with Hero beating Sjow, Top 6 are Korean O_O


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


BTW, with Hero beating Sjow, Top 6 are Korean O_O


yep, no surprise


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


BTW, with Hero beating Sjow, Top 6 are Korean O_O


The OP race.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


The OP race.


hehe, I see what you did there









HERO BANSHEE!!!!!


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm just glad to see a Zerg in the grand final, bet it DRG or Coca. I think I'm pulling for DRG though


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14743783*
> I'm just glad to see a Zerg in the grand final, bet it DRG or Coca. I think I'm pulling for DRG though





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Too bad, Coca won


----------



## Fortunex

Long string of mostly losses :c I think I've won 4 out of the last 15 or so games, 13 of which were against plat players. Haven't played much in the past week, been taking care of my girlfriend after her wisdom teeth got pulled, I think I'm out of practice.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14744278*
> Long string of mostly losses :c I think I've won 4 out of the last 15 or so games, 13 of which were against plat players. Haven't played much in the past week, been taking care of my girlfriend after her wisdom teeth got pulled, I think I'm out of practice.


It happens









Bomber against Coca, two of the best SCII players(Terran and Zerg), must watch!
http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/live/sc2_blue


----------



## yks

Everyone said Bomber was going to win.


----------



## Sainesk

Hurricane Irene doesn't approve of my laddering... Phone's data plan to the powercut's boredom rescue!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14744654*
> Everyone said Bomber was going to win.


Duh







Haters gonna hate, but he is a monster terran. Pretty surprised Coca took down DRG's zvz tho. His group stage domination was no surprise, but beating drg was pretty impressive. Other than that and Trickster failing bad at tvp, no upsets in this MLG.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14744654*
> Everyone said Bomber was going to win.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



tbh, I feel like Coca threw away the last 2 games. I mean he tried a counter attack and then totally ignored his 3rd, 4th and most of his base wasn't defended. That and he just tried to move up a ramp full with stimmed marines with thor, etc.... for support, bad choice imo.
Last game, he had the 4th but he has this nasty habit of running his mutas into stimmed marines and he decided to all in even when his roach force was crushed. Had he waited a bit longer and tried more muta harass, etc... maybe he would've had better luck










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14744757*
> Hurricane Irene doesn't approve of my laddering... Phone's data plan to the powercut's boredom rescue!


ouch, GL with that.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14744804*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> tbh, I feel like Coca threw away the last 2 games. I mean he tried a counter attack and then totally ignored his 3rd, 4th and most of his base wasn't defended. That and he just tried to move up a ramp full with stimmed marines with thor, etc.... for support, bad choice imo.
> Last game, he had the 4th but he has this nasty habit of running his mutas into stimmed marines and he decided to all in even when his roach force was crushed. Had he waited a bit longer and tried more muta harass, etc... maybe he would've had better luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouch, GL with that.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Meh, I think CoCa was more nervous. On Metal he had a couple of chances to really come ahead, and he let Bomber keep making units.

I keep hearing about the Bomber/DRG games. I have to try and watch those at some point.


----------



## Sainesk

iliketreecity!










so is that patch with the rax and hellion nerf out yet?


----------



## iambald

nope, it's on the PTR though


----------



## Fortunex

Went up against a diamond Zerg last game, was falling behind after a hatch snipe mid game, but I got infestors out while he went roach/hydra, which let me fend off his attack and counter attack a little bit. Then he tech switched to muta and I thought it was GG, but he mis-microed while attacking my main, and this was the result:

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDWTPnl2jQU[/ame]

which gave me the win.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14745279*
> Went up against a diamond Zerg last game, was falling behind after a hatch snipe mid game, but I got infestors out while he went roach/hydra, which let me fend off his attack and counter attack a little bit. Then he tech switched to muta and I thought it was GG, but he mis-microed while attacking my main, and this was the result:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDWTPnl2jQU
> 
> which gave me the win.


ive never seen a muta flower before, its so pretty


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

I bought the digital version at blizzard where I should find the activation key? I don't know maybe I'm from the old school and think that activation key its a SERIAL :S


----------



## Sangers_low

MKP, Forever Silver ROFL


----------



## DoomDash

Jediwin if u read this pm me your info I still want that thing we talked about on skipe.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14742045*
> GSTL wins isn't rly a demonstration or qualification of gsl sucess, with the exception of MMA and DRG, but they WERE pretty crazy dominant. MKP and Optimus' Tvt record in gsl is 40 and 45 percent and comparing them to MVP and Bomber level who has 70% win rate is just plain stupid.


Saying someone is bad at TvT beacuse they are not as good as mvp and Bomber is really something of a non arguement thats like saying that DRG and lenock are no good because they are not Nestea.









You are looking at a player who beat freaking Mc in a long series this guy is good he is sick good, the fact hs isnt in code A/S says more about the qualification proccess and how easy it can be to stay in when you should be out than it does about him as a player.

As for people constantly bashing players and calling them overrated after they dont rofl stomp every tourney they enter thats plain stupid, these guys are good all of them and every game is won or lost normally by the narrowest of margins someone is not overrated because they dont win nor does someone suck for not winning all thier games MVP went down to code A MC is in the up and downs. It happens everyone has bad days, or runs.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14751432*
> Saying someone is bad at TvT beacuse they are not as good as mvp and Bomber is really something of a non arguement thats like saying that DRG and lenock are no good because they are not Nestea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are looking at a player who beat freaking Mc in a long series this guy is good he is sick good, the fact hs isnt in code A/S says more about the qualification proccess and how easy it can be to stay in when you should be out than it does about him as a player.
> 
> As for people constantly bashing players and calling them overrated after they dont rofl stomp every tourney they enter thats plain stupid, these guys are good all of them and every game is won or lost normally by the narrowest of margins someone is not overrated because they dont win nor does someone suck for not winning all thier games MVP went down to code A MC is in the up and downs. It happens everyone has bad days, or runs.


My position is that Puma is a decent Korean Terran, but nothing more unlike artosis and tl's claims of him being a top tier terran. Usually there are two types of ways that a player can be established as a great player. First, tournament success(MVP, Nestea, MC) and second, match performance.(Bomber, DRG, Puzzle). Puma's korean tournament success is none-existent and his foreign ones are hard to credit, considering his korean opponents were mostly toss, and his best MU is tvp. Any none top-class, but good vPer in his position could've done what he did and probably better. (Coca, sC, Taeja, Noblesse, Keen, etc)

His match performance isn't that impressive either. If you look at all top tier terrans, they all have what they're the best at. Mindgame/confidence brings up Bomber. Marauder micro and analytic skills for Optimus, Marine micro and aggression for MKP, Solidness for MVP, multitasking for MMA and so on. However Puma has nothing that stands out, and his credited strength, "solidness" is no where near top tier.

He's certainly decent and probably will do okay in code a level, but he's no where near top tier like some would say. While the likes of Taeja, asd, Happy, jjakji, Ryung, Keen and TOP are far less known in foreign community, they are comparable and possibly better than Puma.


----------



## DoomDash

MVP is in a tier of his own. I just watched his games vs Nestea I don't see anyone being better than him over all for a long time.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14752236*
> MVP is in a tier of his own. I just watched his games vs Nestea I don't see anyone being better than him over all for a long time.


U mean his ZvT is in a tier of his own, even though he does lose a couple by bane bust ROFL.
While better now, his PvT knocked him out of Code S a bit back and while his TvT is around 70%, he's 3-5 against Bomber.

Nestea's ZvT isn't godly unlike his other MU and Losira, Leenock and DRG's ZvTs are comparable to his.


----------



## DoomDash

I thought you said every decent Korean T is good at TvP







.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14752451*
> I thought you said every decent Korean T is good at TvP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That was back in May ROFL. If u look at GSL records, u'll see so many terrans and Zergs with 70-80 vP win rate. U don't see that kind of record in vT matchup. DRG is an exception tho


----------



## Amo

What was your favorite match of MLG? Personally, I was astounded by Trimaster in the game he took off Huk. The first half was pretty meh, but the second half was the most gosu decision making I have ever seen.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14751930*
> My position is that Puma is a decent Korean Terran, but nothing more unlike artosis and tl's claims of him being a top tier terran. Usually there are two types of ways that a player can be established as a great player. First, tournament success(MVP, Nestea, MC) and second, match performance.(Bomber, DRG, Puzzle). Puma's korean tournament success is none-existent and his foreign ones are hard to credit, considering his korean opponents were mostly toss, and his best MU is tvp. Any none top-class, but good vPer in his position could've done what he did and probably better. (Coca, sC, Taeja, Noblesse, Keen, etc)
> 
> He's certainly decent and probably will do okay in code a level, but he's no where near top tier like some would say. While the likes of Taeja, asd, Happy, jjakji, Ryung, Keen and TOP are far less known in foreign community, they are comparable and possibly better than Puma.


http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/96_PuMa

Click on his vT link and tell me again that he is bad at TvT ok its only 14 games but 70+% win rate with Polt, MKP, clide and SC all loosing games to him.

as for those players being unknown like most of them are code s im pretty certain anyone who follows sc2 with any degree of interest should know how good they are.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster;14748816*
> I bought the digital version at blizzard where I should find the activation key? I don't know maybe I'm from the old school and think that activation key its a SERIAL :S


If you haven't figured it out yet:

go to battle.net,

top right corner-->log in-->click on account-->click on SC2 and I believe if you haven't activated it yet it should be there.


----------



## Mwarren

I agree that the way GSL is set up is stupid. The seasons are way too short and a Code S player can wind up in code A because of one or two losses. The seasons should be around 9 months long and should go by overall points (similar to MLG) where the player with the most points at the end of a 9 month season wins.

A player being eliminated from Code S/Code A should only be possible by being around the bottom 20% at the end of a given season and they should have to play top code A/B players to determine who gets the open Code S/A spots.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14752236*
> MVP is in a tier of his own. I just watched his games vs Nestea I don't see anyone being better than him over all for a long time.


Guessing these were the GSL ones?


----------



## Dr216

I dont know 9 months is a hella long time, I think just a better use of the 1 month system and a league rather than a straight up tourney, you should not be able to get ot the finals off the strenth of a single matchup.

I would like something more like a football season have everyone play vs everyone in a bo3/5 or whatever each game won is 1 point each loss -1 point winner has the most points, if there is joint lead then those players play off against each other in a mini tourney.

thus better rounded players should have a chance to shine and players who get lucky or use excessive cheese etc should not end up winning. using a series of bo1 games for the first round of code s entirely ruins the competition you see players like Mc in up and downs while others who clearly dont belong in code s stick around off the strength of 2 cheeses just enough to stay in not enough to progress just "bad" players using "lame" tactics

that way there is a relegation and promotion zones top 8 from code a replace bottom 8 from code s and rinse/repeat.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14752236*
> MVP is in a tier of his own. I just watched his games vs Nestea I don't see anyone being better than him over all for a long time.


the first one was sick but i honestly felt nestea at varios points made some uncharacteristically poor choices (largely with not being decisive in his engagements) while mvp made few if any mistakes.

the second was a cheese a beutifull cheese but I dont see that working again simple case of wow i never knew that worked now its known you can bet zergs have worked out how to react or will just veto the map









would have loved to see that as a full bo7 or at least bo5 think I could have learnt allot from watching more games.


----------



## yks

I don't even put MVP at a tier of his own. This is MVP's first time out of groups since the World Tourney. He was in Code A: May, lost in Super and July. And is only back to Ro8 here in GSL August. So to me, he's just trying to recapture his former 2championship Glory.

For particular matchups in Terran I'd go:
TvT: Ryung
TvP: Polt
TvZ: MMA (beat DRG twice and Nestea in Augusts' groups and Losira in a bo7)

But then each of those players have pitfalls in other matchups. What good is it to have a 80+% winrate against 1 race, but like a 40% against another?

That's why Bomber and PuMa (and recently MVP but not on his own teir) to me are on a tier above those players, because instead of like a 40/60/80 win percent between the matchups, those 3 have like a 65/65/65


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14756026*
> I don't even put MVP at a tier of his own. This is MVP's first time out of groups since the World Tourney. He was in Code A: May, lost in Super and July. And is only back to Ro8 here in GSL August. So to me, he's just trying to recapture his former 2championship Glory.
> 
> For particular matchups in Terran I'd go:
> TvT: Ryung
> TvP: Polt
> TvZ: MMA (beat DRG twice and Nestea in Augusts' groups and Losira in a bo7)
> 
> But then each of those players have pitfalls in other matchups. What good is it to have a 80+% winrate against 1 race, but like a 40% against another?
> 
> That's why Bomber and PuMa (and recently MVP but not on his own teir) to me are on a tier above those players, because instead of like a 40/60/80 win percent between the matchups, those 3 have like a 65/65/65


Best TvTer isn't Ryung -_- not even close. MVP is probably better than MMA and he has 70 win rate for all of his MU. Puma has that winrate against mediocre foreigners and korean toss, while Bomber has 72 winrate for all of his gsl record. Seriously, calling puma with bomber is just an insult









Also, Polt has over 90% win rate in TvP, above Keen, Nestea and Losira's beastly vP record.
Quote:


> Click on his vT link and tell me again that he is bad at TvT ok its only 14 games but 70+% win rate with Polt, MKP, clide and SC all loosing games to him.
> 
> as for those players being unknown like most of them are code s im pretty certain anyone who follows sc2 with any degree of interest should know how good they are.


That's in GSTL and bo1. There's a reason why he continued failing in code b and struggled against players like Nada and Coca. Nada's TvT's bad, except his early game and Coca's gsl zvt record is 30% Also, beating MC isn't an impressive task for a korean terran.

EDIT: Nada's TvT is not bad, but it's got less impressive from around May/June


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14756841*
> Bomber has 72 winrate for all of his gsl record. Seriously, calling puma with bomber is just an insult


From hearing everyone go nuts over Bomber, I thought his TvsZ would be crazy awesome or something but I was kinda disappointing. If it wasn't for Coca making some critical mistakes in those 2 games, it would've 3-2 in Coca's favour and we might have even seen him win MLG but obviously that wasn't the case.

TL;DR I dunno if Bomber's MLG performance against Coca in the finals is indicative of his skills but I wasn't impressed at all. MVP has a much better TvsZ imo.


----------



## yks

Ryung has the best TvT, sorry brah.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14756841*
> That's in GSTL and bo1. There's a reason why he continued failing in code b and struggled against players like Nada and Coca. Nada's TvT's bad, except his early game and Coca's gsl zvt record is 30% Also, beating MC isn't an impressive task for a korean terran.
> 
> EDIT: Nada's TvT is not bad, but it's got less impressive from around May/June


The reason he struggles to get into code A is the same reason Freaking Sage isn't in code A the same reason that its taken months for DRG to break into code A.

The bloody code A qualifiers can easily be harder than the rout to a code S finals.

Beating MC is always impressive regardless of who you are, he has a 60+% winrate vT almost all from code S, Nada may not have the best TvT in korea but he is one of the best sc2 players in the world and he still has a better than 50% winrate in vT.

honestly dont care for puma at all just find it it incredible that you can look at him and his performance and go well meh he's not that good. and then justify it by listing a whole bunch of the best players in the world and saying well he is only about as good as these guys.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14757270*
> From hearing everyone go nuts over Bomber, I thought his TvsZ would be crazy awesome or something but I was kinda disappointing. If it wasn't for Coca making some critical mistakes in those 2 games, it would've 3-2 in Coca's favour and we might have even seen him win MLG but obviously that wasn't the case.
> 
> TL;DR I dunno if Bomber's MLG performance against Coca in the finals is indicative of his skills but I wasn't impressed at all. MVP has a much better TvsZ imo.


MVP's tvz is definitely better than Bomber. But bomber still has 75% win rate in gsl against zergs, which is no joke. Coca's zvt is pretty trash in gsl standards.5-10 record against not too good tvzers.
Quote:


> Ryung has the best TvT, sorry brah.


LOL -_- I guess i'll rate his tvt over MMA's, but better tvter than bomber/mvp? sorry brah.
Quote:


> The reason he struggles to get into code A is the same reason Freaking Sage isn't in code A the same reason that its taken months for DRG to break into code A.
> 
> The bloody code A qualifiers can easily be harder than the rout to a code S finals.
> 
> Beating MC is always impressive regardless of who you are, he has a 60+% winrate vT almost all from code S, Nada may not have the best TvT in korea but he is one of the best sc2 players in the world and he still has a better than 50% winrate in vT.
> 
> honestly dont care for puma at all just find it it incredible that you can look at him and his performance and go well meh he's not that good. and then justify it by listing a whole bunch of the best players in the world and saying well he is only about as good as these guys.


I don't think u understand my complaints about Puma. I said he's decent, but I believe he's OVERRATED. You'll see many TL posts and artosis's claims about him being top3/top 5 terran when he's probably more like top15/20 standards.(just arbitrary comparison, no way to determine the real ranking anyway) Losing to coca's mediocre zvt and nada's "not the best tvt in korea" isn't top tier terran's record. And also, i never said that he's just as good as "the best players" in the world. The players i listed are no where the "best." I don't even remotely believe he's "as good as" the top class terrans.


----------



## DoomDash

ii stand by my mvp comment. He hasn't. Always been on his a game but when he is I can't find any mistakes.


----------



## QuadDamage

We should get a macromirco game going

1 person does all the micro
1 person does all the macro

Fun game







OC


----------



## I_AM

So I'm real late to getting to this game. I played SC1 casually with friends back then never got to hardcore in to it but was decent. How is SC2 compared to the 1st? How are custom map games? Any good ones that really stand out? I saw the MMO Sc2 mod and that look pretty awesome. On the fence about purchasing this. Need something to hold me off to GW2. Anyone care to persuade me?


----------



## Fortunex

I was roughly in the same boat as you, looking for a new game to hold me over until BF3/GW2/etc.

SC2 is a lot more streamlined than the first, the AI is better, and it's more polished overall I feel. I don't play customs too much, more of a ladder guy, but they're pretty fun when I do play them. There is a fun mod/gametype called Tug of War I think, I've played it a bunch with friends.

I'd say it's definitely worth picking up.


----------



## Sainesk

wow i'm having a terrible day in team games today

-teammates disconnect, leaving at the start, someone's mouse battery died (lol @ wireless), 1 hellion by the time I have maxed army...

I don't wanna go back to 1v1, mad that 2 months of not playing moved me down 100 ranks, didn't even lose my placement match...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *I_AM;14763946*
> So I'm real late to getting to this game. I played SC1 casually with friends back then never got to hardcore in to it but was decent. How is SC2 compared to the 1st? How are custom map games? Any good ones that really stand out? I saw the MMO Sc2 mod and that look pretty awesome. On the fence about purchasing this. Need something to hold me off to GW2. Anyone care to persuade me?


I would go for it. As mentioned, it's a lot easier to play SCII. Some of the old units make a return while there are some newer units to use as well. Since it's less mechanically demanding, you can focus on the actual game







Having said that, there are still some small imba's left(based on others opinions), but, I believe that the game is just fine atm








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14765514*
> wow i'm having a terrible day in team games today
> 
> -teammates disconnect, leaving at the start, someone's mouse battery died (lol @ wireless), 1 hellion by the time I have maxed army...
> 
> I don't wanna go back to 1v1, mad that 2 months of not playing moved me down 100 ranks, didn't even lose my placement match...


Everyone has their bad days







Did you actually play your placement matches when S3 came around? The rank doesn't matter much in this situation. Whenever a new season is upon us, your points are reset to 0, so, your rank drops with that. I went from 1100+ Silver in the first season to around 1000 Gold in S2 and now I'm 250 Plat S3, so, the points are different and so is the rank but the league is what matters. Just focus on owning nubs and you'll get promoted to Plat. From our games, it's obvious that you have decent mechanics and that you expand a lot, just keep at it and you'll get promoted in no time imo


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *I_AM;14763946*
> So I'm real late to getting to this game. I played SC1 casually with friends back then never got to hardcore in to it but was decent. How is SC2 compared to the 1st? How are custom map games? Any good ones that really stand out? I saw the MMO Sc2 mod and that look pretty awesome. On the fence about purchasing this. Need something to hold me off to GW2. Anyone care to persuade me?


Custom maps? Well, some are just incredible. Just to name off few I've spent over 1000 hours on; Desert Strike, Battlecraft, Squadron Tower Defence, Marine Arena and the newest Special Forces.

I would try Desert Strike first, it's just awesome. I have over 1000 matches played in Battlecraft, it's pretty damn good too.

Then there's always the numerous MOBA maps, but personally, I'm not a big fan of them.


----------



## BigFan

Awesome news!
GSL 1st anniversary, all VODs free for 48h!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=261096


----------



## DoomDash

I've been catching up on gsl on my new touchpad at wendys while I wait for my gf toget of work. I have to wait for about 4 hours 5 days a week. Once I get my car registered I won't have to and ill use that time to play sc2 again.


----------



## Plex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Awesome news!
GSL 1st anniversary, all VODs free for 48h!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=261096










So what do the people who have bought a season ticket for every GSL get?!

Victims of our own success.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic3ZkdHzUI[/ame]
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261179


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14769328*
> Everyone has their bad days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you actually play your placement matches when S3 came around? The rank doesn't matter much in this situation. Whenever a new season is upon us, your points are reset to 0, so, your rank drops with that.


nah, only played it when I got back, and won it, started 1v1ing today and beating everyone who's favored lols, well except 1 or 2 people... got owned by a fe terran, walled off expo and I was playing zerg terribly, couldn't put enough pressure once he/she had tanks.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14775169*
> -


whoa, drone hax!







is that even worth doing? like, worth the lost mining time?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14776114*
> whoa, drone hax!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is that even worth doing? like, worth the lost mining time?


Yeah if its cannons. Break wall, free win.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14772297*
> I've been catching up on gsl on my new touchpad at wendys while I wait for my gf toget of work. I have to wait for about 4 hours 5 days a week. Once I get my car registered I won't have to and ill use that time to play sc2 again.


nice, nice, hopefully we can get a game going in the next 2 days before I leave SCII for a long while








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plex;14772301*
> So what do the people who have bought a season ticket for every GSL get?!
> 
> Victims of our own success.


maybe, doubt they meant it that way








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14775974*
> nah, only played it when I got back, and won it, started 1v1ing today and beating everyone who's favored lols, well except 1 or 2 people... got owned by a fe terran, walled off expo and I was playing zerg terribly, couldn't put enough pressure once he/she had tanks.


lol, so, then all it was, was you complaining?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14776194*
> Yeah if its cannons. Break wall, free win.


Agree with doom, much better this way imo


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan are you going to school ?

Played 1 game today, felt good to play







.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14778978*
> BigFan are you going to school ?
> 
> Played 1 game today, felt good to play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Going back, so, yes









Nice, nice. If the infestor nerf goes through, I think TvsZ would be a bit nicer in the late game


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6NA9O9jQs[/ame]

Infestor nerf is awesome.


----------



## customcomputerftw

^^ yea it is


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6NA9O9jQs

Infestor nerf is awesome.


Helion BF and 2 rax nerf is far more awesome







I mean come on, from the T's perspective, infestors aren't op







It's zvz and pvz where infestors are annoying as hell.

Quote:



Nice, nice. If the infestor nerf goes through, I think TvsZ would be a bit nicer in the late game


Above. It wasn't rly broken in tvz, it's the pvz that got people mad. If the zerg doesn't kill u as soon as he gets end tier units out, the zerg's at the disadvantage.

Quote:



Yeah if its cannons. Break wall, free win.


Not going to work. What kind of idiot toss doesn't build extra buildings to block when the zerg is obviously committing heavily to breaking the pylon? -_-

A thing about korean pros, they don't ladder that much, especially the more successful ones. Understandable, since their practice regime is more focused on custom games with their practice partners, but it's horrifying as hell when u meet DRG or some slayers dude


----------



## Ruckol1

Been playing alot more recently, last 17 games or so I've only lost 2-3 tops. Getting MM'd against a lot of diamonds now as those I've been beating are usually slightly favored. Been following the 5RR in zvp, the no queen FE roach in zvt, and Destinys "Unbeatable" zvz build in well.. guess.

edit: also turned 20 today! yay!


----------



## BigFan

^^ hehe, Happy Birthday









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Helion BF and 2 rax nerf is far more awesome







I mean come on, from the T's perspective, infestors aren't op







It's zvz and pvz where infestors are annoying as hell.

Above. It wasn't rly broken in tvz, it's the pvz that got people mad. If the zerg doesn't kill u as soon as he gets end tier units out, the zerg's at the disadvantage.


I dunno. I won't scream infestors are OP but as soon as my opponent gets them I end up losing the game







If I attack before infestors or snipe their pit, then I still have a chance at winning the game. Nothing as horrifying as seeing a ton of marines just dying to several infestors, really cost efficient imo and I believe overall, the infestors is quite possibly the best spellcaster in the game.
IT: crazy good dps and it's all energy so it's a good deal either way. Had opponents use their infestors to create like 40+ IT's then take down my PF before I had enough time to react -_-

FG: Great as well, if you don't have detection(dts, banshees, etc....), you can detect the units and root them for your units to attack. That and you can just root any and all units barring ultras. No micro is possible when units are FG'd. It might not be as damaging as storm is but at least you can dodge storm and receive less damage but in this case, it's the same damage regardless.

NP: Your opponent went mech or mass tier 2-3 units, etc.... easy solution, just NP them and have them target each other while the rest of the Zerg army tear the remainder of the army in half. I originally thought that NP was a bad spell due to the time limit but I think the time limit is the only thing holding NP back from becoming OP


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


^^ hehe, Happy Birthday









I dunno. I won't scream infestors are OP but as soon as my opponent gets them I end up losing the game







If I attack before infestors or snipe their pit, then I still have a chance at winning the game. Nothing as horrifying as seeing a ton of marines just dying to several infestors, really cost efficient imo and I believe overall, the infestors is quite possibly the best spellcaster in the game.
IT: crazy good dps and it's all energy so it's a good deal either way. Had opponents use their infestors to create like 40+ IT's then take down my PF before I had enough time to react -_-

FG: Great as well, if you don't have detection(dts, banshees, etc....), you can detect the units and root them for your units to attack. That and you can just root any and all units barring ultras. No micro is possible when units are FG'd. It might not be as damaging as storm is but at least you can dodge storm and receive less damage but in this case, it's the same damage regardless.

NP: Your opponent went mech or mass tier 2-3 units, etc.... easy solution, just NP them and have them target each other while the rest of the Zerg army tear the remainder of the army in half. I originally thought that NP was a bad spell due to the time limit but I think the time limit is the only thing holding NP back from becoming OP










I don't think u understand how to play zvt. Infestors' biggest strength is its ability to hinger terrans' push with FGs. Ur not supposed to play same like u play against mutabling: 2 base rinetank spam and push. When u scout quick infestor pit, get third, and actually macro while u take map control with helions and do drops. Get more tanks to counter infestors and don't a-move ur rines. When the zerg goes hive, build extra starport ALWAYS and scout if he's going ultras or bls. Get Maraduers for ultras and 2 port reactor vikes against bls. After u hold the zerg's push, mass ghosts, build PFs and continue drops and etc.

As for mech play, if the zerg is dumping all of its gas on infestors, u don't need to mix more than couple of thors. Get raven for detection against burrowed roach+infestor and mass helion tank.

Infestorling these days is kinda equivalent to old colosi unit composition. At the start, terrans just a-moved their army and complained colosi QQ. These days terrans learned to spread their army and colosi ball became inadequate so the metagame switched to templar tech.


----------



## Dr216

That or get some pimp ghost control, seriously good ghost control counters pretty much everything zerg can do late game, snipe is awesome vs broods and infestors and not that bad vs ultras.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


That or get some pimp ghost control, seriously good ghost control counters pretty much everything zerg can do late game, snipe is awesome vs broods and infestors and not that bad vs ultras.


Ghost owns festor and BL. I'm baffled that most terrans haven't figured that out yet and more than a little annoyed that infestors are getting nerfed because whiny T and P players are too dumb to employ the festor counters to full effect. Watch Destiny's stream. Whenever he faces somebody who takes full advantage of what ghosts can do he usually gets rolled. Good high templar play kills him too. Festor doesn't need a nerf. T and P just need to use the counters better.


----------



## yks

Cliiiiiiiiiiddddddddeeeeeeee


----------



## DoomDash

Everyone at pro level, terrans, protosses, and even some zergs think the infestor was op. Look at that video I linked even. I use ghosts all the time ask fishbulb but they are still way too good with BLs. It wa as needed as the bfh nerd. Rax nerf unsure if that was needed.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14778488*
> lol, so, then all it was, was you complaining?


yep









meh, i'm running out of achievements to get, most I have left require like 100+ games... :/

apart from ones like the starjeweled one (that's like 1000+ games considering my skills at bejeweled...).


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14784697*
> Everyone at pro level, terrans, protosses, and even some zergs think the infestor was op. Look at that video I linked even. I use ghosts all the time ask fishbulb but they are still way too good with BLs. It wa as needed as the bfh nerd. Rax nerf unsure if that was needed.


Infestors are only OP in zvp, and the nerf itself shows that. In zvt, FGs only hard hit marines and the 0.5/s damage nerf isn't going to make marines any more durable against FGs. If they wanted to nerf infestors in zvt, they would nerf the AOE or the range of the cast. The damage nerf helps tremendously in zvz: roach and muta, and zvp: stalker and deathball, but not in zvt.

About the pro comment, ur completely wrong. Most of the "actually good" zergs opt Mutabling and only make handful of infestors to support BLs and some don't even make infestors at all. Instead, they save the gas for more and quicker Ultras. Especially with the smaller maps getting pushed out of tourneys, spamming infestors aren't the way to go in zvt.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14787003*
> Infestors are only OP in zvp, and the nerf itself shows that. In zvt, FGs only hard hit marines and the 0.5/s damage nerf isn't going to make marines any more durable against FGs. If they wanted to nerf infestors in zvt, they would nerf the AOE or the range of the cast. The damage nerf helps tremendously in zvz: roach and muta, and zvp: stalker and deathball, but not in zvt.
> 
> About the pro comment, ur completely wrong. Most of the "actually good" zergs opt Mutabling and only make handful of infestors to support BLs and some don't even make infestors at all. Instead, they save the gas for more and quicker Ultras. Especially with the smaller maps getting pushed out of tourneys, spamming infestors aren't the way to go in zvt.


No but late game they are still an issue. I agree Infestor openings are meh.

Also, to me it's by far a nerf that benefits Terran more than Protoss. With medivacs that 6 damage less is HUGE if you think about how much less time medivacs will need to heal the marines, and how much more energy they will have now. Not only that but it's slightly less vs armored which makes killing the dropships even harder. It's a welcomed change. Still the Infestor was blatantly too well rounded in all match ups... even IT and NP are ridiculously good. I lost plenty of games to people who would literally normally only beat me maybe 1 in 5 repeatedly because of how strong BL Infestor is, and I had prepared very well.


----------



## QuadDamage

Chadwick!


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14787003*
> Infestors are only OP in zvp, and the nerf itself shows that.


work out the numbers and its makes 0 difference in zvp still takes the same number of fg to kill pretty much all P units. Only realy effects zvt and the marine medivac ball.

As for loosing to BL infester in late game, I still say ghosts they are so cheap and they completely counter it If you go vikings you will probably be in trouble. or if you suck at ghost micro then sure but that isnt a balance issue its a skill issue.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14787742*
> work out the numbers and its makes 0 difference in zvp still takes the *same number of fg to kill pretty much all P units*. Only realy effects zvt and the marine medivac ball.
> 
> As for loosing to BL infester in late game, I still say ghosts they are so cheap and they completely counter it If you go vikings you will probably be in trouble. or if you suck at ghost micro then sure but that isnt a balance issue its a skill issue.


U won't get enough ghosts out against the first hive unit wave. U need vikes or marauders, and AFTER u fend off the zerg's first push, u can add ghosts.

Also, u use roachinfestor or infestor ling. Why would u use only FGs to kill protoss army? -_-
Quote:


> No but late game they are still an issue. I agree Infestor openings are meh.
> 
> Also, to me it's by far a nerf that benefits Terran more than Protoss. With medivacs that 6 damage less is HUGE if you think about how much less time medivacs will need to heal the marines, and how much more energy they will have now. Not only that but it's slightly less vs armored which makes killing the dropships even harder. It's a welcomed change. Still the Infestor was blatantly too well rounded in all match ups... even IT and NP are ridiculously good. I lost plenty of games to people who would literally normally only beat me maybe 1 in 5 repeatedly because of how strong BL Infestor is, and I had prepared very well.


The damage nerf won't save many marines, since FG is AOE and mutas clean up marineless medivacs, but it'll make infestors more ineffective against drop play and against vikes(takes extra FG), and will weaken the RoachInfestor/InfestorLing against Blink stalker and chargelots.


----------



## onoz

I just got into gold!







I can't wait 'til I understand what you guys are talking about.


----------



## CravinR1

I think i'm destined to remain perma gold









Any high level toss players want to give me some hints?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14788282*
> I think i'm destined to remain perma gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any high level toss players want to give me some hints?


Go heavy Robo for every matchup. I can't imagine many gold players spreading their MM army, go for good blink stalker base trade, or build right amount of corrupters at the right time. 2 gate Robo, 1 gate 1 robo and Forge FE are some openers that come in to my mind.


----------



## QuadDamage

Anyone want to play macro micro later with me

One person macro's and the other micro's

Need 4 people for a 1v1

You can watch and sit out games gets a bit fun.

LMK


----------



## Sainesk

promoted yay, maybe my Protoss got a little better, that or just having good luck with using defensive cannons while expanding,

don't you hurry into diamond big, I beg you...









p.s. I only played 1 other random player all day and that's the match that got me promoted


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


work out the numbers and its makes 0 difference in zvp still takes the same number of fg to kill pretty much all P units. Only realy effects zvt and the marine medivac ball.


yeah, still takes the same amount of fungals to kill P units. so it doesn't change zvp.

it was mainly for zvt.

idk about you sometimes sangers.


----------



## stren

anyone have their first game suffer from crazy video card problems? I.e. all textures messed up, supreme lag even after alt tabbing and back? 2nd+ games are fine, just the first which tries to give me epilepsy or something?


----------



## eosgreen

anyone know a way to use a smoothping type program to help with latency

im getting SUPER crazy lag lately

its the most annoying delay EVER

wireless might cause it but it was never this bad...


----------



## gonX

Try going off wireless before complaining about ping... wireless is especially suspectible to random spikes.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Try going off wireless before complaining about ping... wireless is especially suspectible to random spikes.


awfully aggressive post

ftwpc fanboy or something?

all i was asking was if there was a ping reduction deal like lowerping or smoothping

and i also get a bit of lag when on a dif computer that has a hardline connection


----------



## BigFan

^^Sorry guys, no clue. I've played on wireless before but not extensively and I never had any issues that came to mind.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I don't think u understand how to play zvt. Infestors' biggest strength is its ability to hinger terrans' push with FGs. Ur not supposed to play same like u play against mutabling: 2 base rinetank spam and push. When u scout quick infestor pit, get third, and actually macro while u take map control with helions and do drops. Get more tanks to counter infestors and don't a-move ur rines. When the zerg goes hive, build extra starport ALWAYS and scout if he's going ultras or bls. Get Maraduers for ultras and 2 port reactor vikes against bls. After u hold the zerg's push, mass ghosts, build PFs and continue drops and etc.

As for mech play, if the zerg is dumping all of its gas on infestors, u don't need to mix more than couple of thors. Get raven for detection against burrowed roach+infestor and mass helion tank.

Infestorling these days is kinda equivalent to old colosi unit composition. At the start, terrans just a-moved their army and complained colosi QQ. These days terrans learned to spread their army and colosi ball became inadequate so the metagame switched to templar tech.


It might delay but its other purpose is to root marines for banes to prevent kiting and do some damage. I don't a move my army when playing Terran especially if they have banes, it's suicidal!!!!!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


promoted yay, maybe my Protoss got a little better, that or just having good luck with using defensive cannons while expanding,

*don't you hurry into diamond big, I beg you...







*

p.s. I only played 1 other random player all day and that's the match that got me promoted










Congrats on the promotion. I can tell from our games that we are pretty close skill wise so I knew you'll make it








rofl @ bolded. You got lucky, gonna be taking a nice long break from SCII in a couple of days, so, I doubt I'll be getting promoted to diamond anytime soon. I'll most likely get depromoted back to gold once I play again after my break









Since I'm not gonna be checking this thread much, anyone interested in taking over the OP?


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14782017*
> I don't think u understand how to play zvt. Infestors' biggest strength is its ability to hinger terrans' push with FGs. Ur not supposed to play same like u play against mutabling: 2 base rinetank spam and push. When u scout quick infestor pit, get third, and actually macro while u take map control with helions and do drops. Get more tanks to counter infestors and don't a-move ur rines. When the zerg goes hive, build extra starport ALWAYS and scout if he's going ultras or bls. Get Maraduers for ultras and 2 port reactor vikes against bls. After u hold the zerg's push, mass ghosts, build PFs and continue drops and etc.
> 
> As for mech play, if the zerg is dumping all of its gas on infestors, u don't need to mix more than couple of thors. Get raven for detection against burrowed roach+infestor and mass helion tank.
> 
> Infestorling these days is kinda equivalent to old colosi unit composition. At the start, terrans just a-moved their army and complained colosi QQ. These days terrans learned to spread their army and colosi ball became inadequate so the metagame switched to templar tech.


infestor is a great "stopper of pushes" and is effectively the unit that does what zerg needs "to bide time" that being said infestor will not BEAT a good terran tank marine push and as such you will need more supply (u almost always do anyway z v whatever) or some luck to catch good fungles

basically if the terran goes ghost at all it will counter all of your end game units

ghosts beat broodlords and ultras with snipe. any good terran will mass ghosts and you will have nearly no shot at winning if he is able to scout the broods and get ghosts in the 7+

he can snipe your overseers easily with vikings emp your infestors and then snipe the broods with sniper shot

that being said zergs str is to just show up with mass end game units randomly and as such a good ol proxy hive + g spire will almost spell certain doom for any terran since arguably nothing in the game can beat mass infestor corruptor broodlord especially if you didnt know it was comming (most terrans just keep periodically scanning the main in prep for a hive and i pref to at LEAST proxy a second spire or build a second lair into a hive to surprise terrans)

also the metagame didnt "change because terrans can spread units" in fact id argue most "pro" terrans have horrible spreading and simply vikings are too good

you cant kill a viking like you can a corruptor since they have the same range as the collosi and then again unlike the corruptor you can land them after a fight making them totally worth it.
on top of all this terrans are not being forced to change army comp to fight collosi since its just a matter of getting 4 medivacs and massing vikings

its nearly impossible for terrans to lose to collosi tech. any good terran will tell you this. with high templar you have a "shot" ghosts will always counter you harder then any unit counters another unit but even with that being said you at least have SOME shot with micro where as collosi just are horrible

if you are super far ahead of your opponent, collosi tech SWAPS late game are amazing. if you are templar tech till 4 bases and then you throw down 3 robos and hide 6 collosi randomly, you may just win the game or depending on base count/enemys macro (ability to make more then 1 stargate...) kill a base or 2 and win later on


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14788215*
> U won't get enough ghosts out against the first hive unit wave. U need vikes or marauders, and AFTER u fend off the zerg's first push, u can add ghosts.
> 
> Also, u use roachinfestor or infestor ling. Why would u use only FGs to kill protoss army? -_-
> 
> The damage nerf won't save many marines, since FG is AOE and mutas clean up marineless medivacs, but it'll make infestors more ineffective against drop play and against vikes(takes extra FG), and will weaken the RoachInfestor/InfestorLing against Blink stalker and chargelots.


Not sure if your serious on that first post, getting hive tech out takes forever. if your not scouting it before it comes your problem is scouting not hive tech units, its very rare for a Z to get to hive tech before at least 150food and its much more common for Z to go hive tech for the remax after the first 200/200 as it is so risky to tech to.

ghosts on the other hand you can get out pretty quick its a single building +40 seconds per ghost or whatever. freeing up your star port to make more medivacs rather than vikings. Watch Byun vs I think Zenio, he had lost two of those games and managed to use like 4 ghosts to come back completely.

vs blink stalkers and chargelots your not using Fg for damage really anyway your using it for a root to avoid blink micro.


----------



## BountyHead

I started to play Random mid silver ftl so much cheese lol. Some guy went DT into Carriers on me. If i had been zerg i would have melted his face as it was I was toss so i 5 gate blink stalker, took out his expo and almost all his probes in his main. He had a wall of cannons , at least 10 per base. to my chagrin he had a hidden base with all his tech sigh, welcome to silver league xD


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14794662*
> he had a hidden base with all his tech sigh, welcome to silver league xD


there is nothing like that horrible sinking feeling you get when you realise he has been 1 base up on what you thought this whole time







patrolling scouts to all bases ftw.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14794675*
> there is nothing like that horrible sinking feeling you get when you realise he has been 1 base up on what you thought this whole time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrolling scouts to all bases ftw.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14794696*
> Well i scouted an Expo and gates so i was like ok np. I went in for a push when my blink was done , When he took out my main I was like awesome base trade, Ima go take a hidden, Wait why did my probe die and why is there a ton of red on the mini map..... Ah nutttttssss >,,<


Yeah been there done that soo many times







Assumption is the mother of all ups


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14794755*
> Yeah been there done that soo many times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assumption is the mother of all ups


Yeah, Surprisingly I since i started playing Random im having more fun with the game lol. Even if i will probably have to fight for a few weeks to stay in Silver . Im decent with Z I probably could have made my way to gold EZ enough if i had stuck with it but i would get so damn frustrated lol.


----------



## Dr216

I think if you can make gold as random you can probably easily make diamond when you "specialise" it gives you a much better rounded view on what units are capable of and what you can and cant do/get away with at certain times along with getting a good idea of timings of all races, problem with playing random is people assume you will cheese and so cheese you.

I still cant settle on one race at all. every time i think im certain i get a mirror match up and it makes me want to kill myself and i go back to random







think my favourite mirror is ZvZ simply because its all over so fast and TvT is my least favourite because it takes forever. but my winrates on all mirrors are above 60% and recently my tvt has become one of my best match ups in terms of winning (its still my worst in terms of fun







) think its because I actually slow push and stagger my tank siege where most people seem to be impatient and just push out and un-siege everything at once. My PvT and ZvP seem to be my weakest matchups at the moment.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14794946*
> I think if you can make gold as random you can probably easily make diamond when you "specialise" it gives you a much better rounded view on what units are capable of and what you can and cant do/get away with at certain times along with getting a good idea of timings of all races, problem with playing random is people assume you will cheese and so cheese you.
> 
> I still cant settle on one race at all. every time i think im certain i get a mirror match up and it makes me want to kill myself and i go back to random
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> think my favourite mirror is ZvZ simply because its all over so fast and TvT is my least favourite because it takes forever. but my winrates on all mirrors are above 60% and recently my tvt has become one of my best match ups in terms of winning (its still my worst in terms of fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) think its because I actually slow push and stagger my tank siege where most people seem to be impatient and just push out and un-siege everything at once. My PvT and ZvP seem to be my weakest matchups at the moment.


I HATE ZvZ its a ridiculously fragile matchup. I placed plat with my Terran but it was kinda boring to play T


----------



## Fortunex

I hate ZvZ as well, at least the early game. Once it gets to roaches it's alright, but ZvZ is my least favorite matchup.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14793404*
> Since I'm not gonna be checking this thread much, anyone interested in taking over the OP?


and now you're going somewhere







I miss our games.

I'm not going anywhere anytime soon again, and I check this thread quite a lot so wouldn't mind...

anything I need to know about what to do, apart from not turning this thread into the official unicorns thread?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


yeah, still takes the same amount of fungals to kill P units. so it doesn't change zvp.

it was mainly for zvt.

idk about you sometimes sangers.


Are u an idiot? -_- Who on earth goes PURE infestors in zvp? Roaches and lings are the main hitters against toss army and 7,6 less health taken from FGs help the toss army. As for terran, the effect is less because marines die mainly by FGs, and they still die after 2 FGs.

Just because I haven't logged on my NA account for ages doesn't mean i haven't been playing sc2 -_-, just in KR server

Quote:



Not sure if your serious on that first post, getting hive tech out takes forever. if your not scouting it before it comes your problem is scouting not hive tech units, its very rare for a Z to get to hive tech before at least 150food and its much more common for Z to go hive tech for the remax after the first 200/200 as it is so risky to tech to.

ghosts on the other hand you can get out pretty quick its a single building +40 seconds per ghost or whatever. freeing up your star port to make more medivacs rather than vikings. Watch Byun vs I think Zenio, he had lost two of those games and managed to use like 4 ghosts to come back completely.

vs blink stalkers and chargelots your not using Fg for damage really anyway your using it for a root to avoid blink micro.


The zerg's at strongest when its hive units pop out. If u fail to kill terran with ur first hive units, terran can get vikes/marauders out, ghosts out, and build PFs, which will work against the zerg's favour. The reason the zerg's at strongest with their first hive push is because u can't pump many ghosts, marauders and vikes as quickly as zerg making their hive units. <--- That's what i'm saying about hive tech.

And now about ghosts, it's stupid to Blind-transition into ghosts when the zerg's still in mutabling. Also, it's impossible to get enough ghosts in time against the first zerg's hive push, which will cost u the game, because rine/tank can't deal with bls or ultras effectively. Even if u survive the first hive push, marauders and vikings help tremendously. Just sticking to ghost can cost u the game straightaway if u lose them.

About the Zenio vs Byun game, Zenio won both of their last two games... so I have no idea what ur talking about. However, Byun is famous for his ghost precision micro.

Quote:



It might delay but its other purpose is to root marines for banes to prevent kiting and do some damage. I don't a move my army when playing Terran especially if they have banes, it's suicidal!!!!!


U don't push when the zerg have banes? -_- How on earth do u win ur zvts? The strength of infestorling is make ur zerg army strong so it can kill terran's push. The strength of Mutabling is to make ur army mobile, so it can counter the T's base when terran's in the middle of the map, and still come back and defend it.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eosgreen*


infestor is a great "stopper of pushes" and is effectively the unit that does what zerg needs "to bide time" that being said infestor will not BEAT a good terran tank marine push and as such you will need more supply (u almost always do anyway z v whatever) or some luck to catch good fungles


Infestorling can basically stop most 2 base rine tank play -_- ITs+Ling surround is ur answer if ur having problems with rinetank push.

Quote:



basically if the terran goes ghost at all it will counter all of your end game units

ghosts beat broodlords and ultras with snipe. any good terran will mass ghosts and you will have nearly no shot at winning if he is able to scout the broods and get ghosts in the 7+

he can snipe your overseers easily with vikings emp your infestors and then snipe the broods with sniper shot


Master kr server players(my opponents) go ghosts WITH vikes/marauders. Ghosts alone can be fragile and u chance of winning isn't based on the ghost count, it's based on the base count -_-

Quote:



that being said zergs str is to just show up with mass end game units randomly and as such a good ol proxy hive + g spire will almost spell certain doom for any terran since arguably nothing in the game can beat mass infestor corruptor broodlord especially if you didnt know it was comming (most terrans just keep periodically scanning the main in prep for a hive and i pref to at LEAST proxy a second spire or build a second lair into a hive to surprise terrans)


No, zerg's strength is in army's mobility and its ability to counter attack, take map control and harass. When it goes to late game, ur hive army will be strongest when they first spawn. It's characteristics of a good terran to know when ur opponent's switching to hive, but it's not common for the terran to get enough ghosts when the first push comes.

Quote:



also the metagame didnt "change because terrans can spread units" in fact id argue most "pro" terrans have horrible spreading and simply vikings are too good

you cant kill a viking like you can a corruptor since they have the same range as the collosi and then again unlike the corruptor you can land them after a fight making them totally worth it.
on top of all this terrans are not being forced to change army comp to fight collosi since its just a matter of getting 4 medivacs and massing vikings

its nearly impossible for terrans to lose to collosi tech. any good terran will tell you this. with high templar you have a "shot" ghosts will always counter you harder then any unit counters another unit but even with that being said you at least have SOME shot with micro where as collosi just are horrible


Completely wrong. Half an year ago, Colosi tech was the only thing protoss did, except for the likes of San. The point of making blink stalkers is to kill vikings not to kill marauders.Also, terrans still lose to Colosi tech. These days, it's hard to see late game TvP in gsl, but tonnes of protoss still open up with colo heavy tech. Ghosts are better against templar tech than colosi tech. U try going MM+ghosts without vikings against Colosi deathball.

Quote:



if you are super far ahead of your opponent, collosi tech SWAPS late game are amazing. if you are templar tech till 4 bases and then you throw down 3 robos and hide 6 collosi randomly, you may just win the game or depending on base count/enemys macro (ability to make more then 1 stargate...) kill a base or 2 and win later on


U don't have to be ahead to do that, just in later stages of the game. Just says terran need enough vikings to deal with colosi tech, unlike ur belief that ghosts hit colosi harder.


----------



## BountyHead

Having those ghosts for some really well placed EMPs will demolish a stalker/Collosi ball even w/o vikings. MMM with ghost is super effective midgame. Granted against a maxed out Toss army of Stalker Collosi yeah you need those vikings, but against 2-3 your fine with out them.


----------



## Dr216

first up disclaimer- I may have been drinking before so what follows may or may not make any sense whatsoever.

in PvT going early colo to force vikings and then switching into templar is really effective, similar to ZvT making that swap from broods to ultra's after he makes too many vikings.

Going anything blind is stupid but the chances are before a Z goes hive he will go infester so that should be your cue to start a few ghost it doesnt take many to make a huge difference if your control is good (or his isnt). as for not having time to pump out enough to deal with hive tech. hive take 100seconds to complete greater spire takes a further 100 and then morphing coruptors into broods is further 35 second, however you should be tipped off this is coming by the corupters coming out so another 30 odd seconds or whatever they take.

meaning assuming you scout it right away you have 4 mins to prepare for hive tech. even half that should give you quite a bit of time. Not enough to shut it down entirely but still enough to turn the tide in your favour.


----------



## DoomDash

I love TvT, but sometimes I'm really not in the mood to play full throttle for 30+ minutes repeatedly.

PS: I have a basically brand new SCII Razer mouse for sale in the FS Section if anyone wanted to buy one. $30 shipped ^^.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Are u an idiot? -_- Who on earth goes PURE infestors in zvp? Roaches and lings are the main hitters against toss army and 7,6 less health taken from FGs help the toss army. As for terran, the effect is less because marines die mainly by FGs, and they still die after 2 FGs.


Are YOU an idiot? First you can't read tourney brackets and say top4 when it's really top 3. Now you're talking like the change is mainly for ZvP/ZvZ. The FG change is clearly meant for ZvT.

1.3 = 11.75 dmg/sec, 1.4 = 10 dmg/sec. In the span of FOUR seconds.

And that's blizzard seconds. So 1.75dmg difference per blizzard second.

That's pretty fricking miniscule compared to 72dmg (in 1.3) to 60dmg (in patch 1.4) for 2 fungals on marines. 12 less damage *PER* marine that the medivac has to heal? That's a lot of medivac energy and time saved.

Idiot.


----------



## gonX

Jeez guys, ease up on the language a bit.


----------



## DoomDash

I think its for both match ups, but yeah works out much better for Terran over all.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14802457*
> first up disclaimer- I may have been drinking before so what follows may or may not make any sense whatsoever.
> 
> in PvT going early colo to force vikings and then switching into templar is really effective, similar to ZvT making that swap from broods to ultra's after he makes too many vikings.
> 
> Going anything blind is stupid but the chances are before a Z goes hive he will go infester so that should be your cue to start a few ghost it doesnt take many to make a huge difference if your control is good (or his isnt). as for not having time to pump out enough to deal with hive tech. hive take 100seconds to complete greater spire takes a further 100 and then morphing coruptors into broods is further 35 second, however you should be tipped off this is coming by the corupters coming out so another 30 odd seconds or whatever they take.
> 
> meaning assuming you scout it right away you have 4 mins to prepare for hive tech. even half that should give you quite a bit of time. Not enough to shut it down entirely but still enough to turn the tide in your favour.


First, in kr server, a lot of zergs skip making infestors for quicker and more ultras. Second, going pure ghosts against Bl/Infestor is bad idea. Seriously, it's so fragile against bling. Ghosts get out of position and die in groups, u have no anti-bls and u'll be in horrible spot.
Quote:


> Are YOU an idiot? First you can't read tourney brackets and say top4 when it's really top 3. Now you're talking like the change is mainly for ZvP/ZvZ. The FG change is clearly meant for ZvT.
> 
> 1.3 = 11.75 dmg/sec, 1.4 = 10 dmg/sec. In the span of FOUR seconds.
> 
> And that's blizzard seconds. So 1.75dmg difference per blizzard second.
> 
> That's pretty fricking miniscule compared to 72dmg (in 1.3) to 60dmg (in patch 1.4) for 2 fungals on marines. 12 less damage PER marine that the medivac has to heal? That's a lot of medivac energy and time saved.
> 
> Idiot.


The damage difference doesnt matter because medivacs will only save like a couple when two FGs go down anyway. How does the 12extra health matter when the majority's dead before medivacs heal them? Marines will still die by one baneling explosion with 1 FG. And medivacs still take the same amount of FG hits.

The nerf gives vikes an extra FG, which will nerf the bl/brood combo. It'll also weaken the infestor a bit against drop play.

Yes stalkers, roach, hydras, mutas, they all take same amount of hits, but the important thing ur missing is that units are attacking and hitting the unit while FGs goes down, and FGs are almost never the only damage input that kills the units in zvp and zvz. Less damages from FGs allows the units to take extra hits from zerg units. This is different for marines, because FGs kill a group of marines quickly without zerg unit's help with 2 shots anyway.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14804081*
> I think its for both match ups, but yeah works out much better for Terran over all.


It'll probably nerf the infestorling play more, but most go mutabling in tvz anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

You do realize how much faster medivacs will move on to the next marine compared to before right? Again it also means more medivac energy too.

My only problem with them was with BL's personally, even with ghosts it was just crazy hard.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14804242*
> You do realize how much faster medivacs will move on to the next marine compared to before right? Again it also means more medivac energy too.
> 
> My only problem with them was with BL's personally, even with ghosts it was just crazy hard.


Yes I haven't done a test yet, but I don't see couple of extra marines is that significant when ur combining infestors with bling/bls. Extra durability for toss army is probably better is my belief.

Just get extra port and pump vikes. IMO, if u have similar econ, only vikes are better than only ghosts. Combination of both with PFs in the middle of the map works best i guess.


----------



## DoomDash

I thought this was pretty cool:










He originally had the Infestor as 2 snipes but that stupid 1 gen of instant health regen prevents that. Snipe should do 46 damage.


----------



## Sangers_low

Broodlords take 6 shots not 5. And what is that weird thingy on the right that says 56 shots?


----------



## yks

doom says what i said, but you call me the idiot, lolll


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14804387*
> Broodlords take 6 shots not 5. And what is that weird thingy on the right that says 56 shots?


One of the bosses from SP, I think it was on that huge space deck level.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14804428*
> doom says what i said, but you call me the idiot, lolll


Look at what I called u an idiot for -_-. U claimed infestor nerf does nothing is pvz because they still take same amount of FGs to kill, which suggests u believe infestors are the only unit zerg makes.

http://www.gomtv.net/event/GSLOctoberCodeA_Live.gom

GSL code b. Ridiculous amount of good players. Will be cheering for Boxer, Sase, Inca, Superstar, Revival, sage, seal, and All of IM D:


----------



## Lucas Lamer

The fungal nerf is actually pretty severe from a DPS standpoint

current DPS: 36 / 4 = 9.0
patch DPS: 30 / 4 = 7.5

A DPS of 9.0 kills a 55hp upgraded marine in 6.1 seconds, assuming no healing. DPS of 7.5 kills them in 7.33, and healing becomes far more effective too, making the difference even bigger when medivacs are present. Mass marines are going to survive long enough to do a lot more damage than they do now, especially when they have medivac support.


----------



## Fortunex

Hurray









Probably gonna be stuck here for a while.


----------



## BountyHead

Gratz


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14804587*
> The fungal nerf is actually pretty severe from a DPS standpoint
> 
> current DPS: 36 / 4 = 9.0
> patch DPS: 30 / 4 = 7.5
> 
> A DPS of 9.0 kills a 55hp upgraded marine in 6.1 seconds, assuming no healing. DPS of 7.5 kills them in 7.33, and healing becomes far more effective too, making the difference even bigger when medivacs are present. Mass marines are going to survive long enough to do a lot more damage than they do now, especially when they have medivac support.


This is the first time your post wasn't complete and utter garbage when it comes to balance issues. Rep.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14804198*
> First, in kr server, a lot of zergs skip making infestors for quicker and more ultras. Second, going pure ghosts against Bl/Infestor is bad idea. Seriously, it's so fragile against bling. Ghosts get out of position and die in groups, u have no anti-bls and u'll be in horrible spot.


I dont think anyone has advocated going "pure" ghost. going pure anything is a genrally a weak way to play, but it does not take many ghosts to make a huge difference vs infester broodlord, a few emps and a few snipes can do the work of an awefull lot of vikings. As for it being fragile I've not had a problem with that personally possibly the people I play against are just bad. I started doing it after seeing how strong it was used by a few pros.

I cant speak to what happens on the KR server but I rarely see in my games people skip infesters and normaly if they do its because they are bad rather than some clever timing, and I've seen only I think july do it at pro level. and that was vs byun who is as you noted known for his ghost play.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14804587*
> The fungal nerf is actually pretty severe from a DPS standpoint
> 
> current DPS: 36 / 4 = 9.0
> patch DPS: 30 / 4 = 7.5
> 
> *A DPS of 9.0 kills a 55hp upgraded marine in 6.1 seconds, assuming no healing. DPS of 7.5 kills them in 7.33*, and healing becomes far more effective too, making the difference even bigger when medivacs are present. Mass marines are going to survive long enough to do a lot more damage than they do now, especially when they have medivac support.


Also with Armor (no medivac heal)

0 Armor = 7.33 Seconds
1 Armor = 8.46 Seconds
2 Armor = 10 Seconds
3 Armor = 12.2 Seconds

0 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 10.61 Seconds
1 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 13.23 Seconds
2 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 17.27 Seconds
3 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 22.22 Seconds

+ 1 Medivac is roughly calculated

3+3 marines are going to be amazing.
Wait Marines were always amazing


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14807620*
> This is the first time your post wasn't complete and utter garbage when it comes to balance issues. Rep.


I love compliments that are really insults. They're my favorite thing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14807836*
> I love compliments that are really insults. They're my favorite thing.


I mean, its more insulting your old complaining about nothing posts, and complimenting your new approach to actually applying some stats and data to prove some point you are making or agreeing with. I gave you rep because it was a good post man, I guess you can say it was some what insulting to your old complaining yes.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;14807804*
> Also with Armor (no medivac heal)
> 
> 0 Armor = 7.33 Seconds
> 1 Armor = 8.46 Seconds
> 2 Armor = 10 Seconds
> 3 Armor = 12.2 Seconds
> 
> 0 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 10.61 Seconds
> 1 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 13.23 Seconds
> 2 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 17.27 Seconds
> 3 Armor + 1 Medivac healing (+3HP / second) = 22.22 Seconds
> 
> + 1 Medivac is roughly calculated
> 
> 3+3 marines are going to be amazing.
> Wait Marines were always amazing


Fungal ignores armor.....the same with storm and any other spell caster spell.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14807864*
> Fungal ignores armor.....the same with storm and any other spell caster spell.


The more you know~


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Anyone else hear Destiny ranting last night about how most TvZ balance complaints stem from Terrans being too "lazy" to learn how to use ghosts and ravens? Pretty funny stuff.


----------



## refujiado

Hope i can post this here since its SC2 related, thats all im going to be playing on my new rig, what is the best card to max SC2 @ 1080p. (trying to save a little bit of cash, dont want an overkill card.


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone knows what's going on on gom.tv live stream atm? It says October code A preliminaries, but they show some random code S games, including some very old ones.


----------



## Ruckol1

I'm watching my first gomtv stuff, never had a subscription, very well produced.


----------



## RushMore1205

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *refujiado;14808074*
> Hope i can post this here since its SC2 related, thats all im going to be playing on my new rig, what is the best card to max SC2 @ 1080p. (trying to save a little bit of cash, dont want an overkill card.


I would get a,560 ti, sc2 on extend settings if very taxing, but looks beautiful


----------



## Ruckol1

Wow Nestea crying after losing to MMA?


----------



## refujiado

lmao i know.. MMA is a beast!


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RushMore1205;14808325*
> I would get a,560 ti, sc2 on extend settings if very taxing, but looks beautiful


I play at 1680x1050 at extreme with a GTX 260 core 216


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14807935*
> Anyone else hear Destiny ranting last night about how most TvP balance complaints stem from Terrans being too "lazy" to learn how to use ghosts and ravens? Pretty funny stuff.


Destiny should stick to discussing balance around the zerg matchups, he obviously has a low understanding of tvp if he thinks that getting ghosts and ravens is actually viable. Getting ghosts and ravens wont work because both units are what I'd consider fragile and risk units, meaning that both can be focus fired very fast or taken out by feedbacks.

Not to mention that if a player is getting both ghosts and ravens his ground army is going to be very weak and its both mineral and gas intensive to get ravens plus ghosts. Ravens also have a low cost/benefit ratio and using seeker missile rely s on your opponent being bad and not capable of splitting his units or feed backing the raven.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14808551*
> Destiny should stick to discussing balance around the zerg matchups, he obviously has a low understanding of tvp if he thinks that getting ghosts and ravens is actually viable. Getting ghosts and ravens wont work because both units are what I'd consider fragile and risk units, meaning that both can be focus fired very fast or taken out by feedbacks.
> 
> Not to mention that if a player is getting both ghosts and ravens his ground army is going to be very weak and its both mineral and gas intensive to get ravens plus ghosts. Ravens also have a low cost/benefit ratio and using seeker missile rely s on your opponent being bad and not capable of splitting his units or feed backing the raven.


um infestors are gas intensive, no feedbacks from zerg

Destiny is talking ZvT not Pvt


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14808623*
> um infestors are gas intensive, no feedbacks from zerg
> 
> Destiny is talking ZvT not Pvt


No, re read the guys post that I quoted. Destiny was talking about pvt not tvz.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Reinstalling SC2 is a real *****.. 19 patches.. ONE BY ONE. Seriously Blizzard?


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14808631*
> No, re read the guys post that I quoted. Destiny was talking about pvt not tvz.


Oops. I meant to write TvZ, not TvP. Post corrected.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *refujiado;14808074*
> Hope i can post this here since its SC2 related, thats all im going to be playing on my new rig, what is the best card to max SC2 @ 1080p. (trying to save a little bit of cash, dont want an overkill card.


I think an 6850 can do that without problems, and it's a fairly inexpensive card by now...


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14809886*
> I think an 6850 can do that without problems, and it's a fairly inexpensive card by now...


Yup, even my 5770 paired with a Pentium G620 runs SC2 maxed easily.


----------



## Infinite Jest

I'm having trouble running the SCII campaign with nVidia optimal settings, getting b/t 30-70fps in the campaign when, according to nvidia, I should be getting 119fps . It's rather pissing me off. My last hope is to see if dling 266.58 helps


----------



## Alex132

Just played 6 2v2 games, all 6 of them my opponents rushed/cheesed/all-in'ed pretty hard.
Cannon rushing, 6 pool, even one teamie quitting so that the other can use him for resources etc.

I expected more from 2v2 Masters :I


----------



## iambald




----------



## Fortunex

Grats


----------



## gonX

PTSL is up and running:
http://teevox.com/ptsl

If they get enough viewers they'll double the current prize pool


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14808551*
> Getting ghosts and ravens wont work because both units are what I'd consider fragile and risk units, meaning that both can be focus fired very fast or taken out by feedbacks.


Ghost however have a brillitant risk/reward rating....end of the day in PvT ghost control vs Templar control both high risk both high reward. Ravens on the other hand are a little more wierd in tvp i like them with timming pushes and for killing off obs but I still havnt realy worked out a way to fit them into my normal play.


----------



## Fortunex

So I just started using Spanishiwa's "Ice Fisher" build, and I'm really liking it so far.

Anyone who doesn't know about it but is interested:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017|Spanishiwas

How do you counter cannons behind your mineral lines? I can't find ANYTHING to counter it, even if I scout it I can't stop it because of the mineral wall, and expanding elsewhere will usually put me far behind on most maps and be difficult to defend.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14815430*
> So I just started using Spanishiwa's "Ice Fisher" build, and I'm really liking it so far.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't know about it but is interested:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017|Spanishiwas
> 
> How do you counter cannons behind your mineral lines? I can't find ANYTHING to counter it, even if I scout it I can't stop it because of the mineral wall, and expanding elsewhere will usually put me far behind on most maps and be difficult to defend.


As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.

In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.

if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.


----------



## Ruckol1

Against cannon rush I always cancel my nat, lair immediately and worm into their main n gg cause they have nothing.

edit oh ya and 1 good spine at the top of your ramp will stop any more probes or cannons getting near your main


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14816990*
> As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.
> 
> In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.
> 
> if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.


If you can get a surround, 4 drones will take a pylon out before it finishes. However the worker trick works with a contain (watch HD's tutorial, he actually shows that if you can't click back and forth fast enough to hold shift and click a min patch 5x then right click the pylon, bout 3 or 4 of these with 16 drones will destroy a pylon almost instantly)


----------



## kdo99

http://www.gomtv.net/event/GSL1YearAnniversaryEvent.gom

not sure if this has been posted but gomtv is having a one year anniversary where all vods are free for 48 hours starting sept 4.

time to catch up on the aug. tournament.


----------



## Narynan

For those of you keeping score at home, I updated to friends list. So if you are looking for some new friends...

GO! Mingle! But I assume most of you know each other by now.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14816990*
> As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.
> 
> In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.
> 
> if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.


I can fend off normal cannon rushes with little problem. But when he puts a pylon/2 pylons with a cannon or two behind my mineral line, I can't get any surface area to do damage, so the cannons are there until I get roaches unless I spend 10+ larvae on zerglings to whittle it down (assuming he doesn't just throw up more pylons), and then I'm behind in economy.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


I can fend off normal cannon rushes with little problem. But when he puts a pylon/2 pylons with a cannon or two behind my mineral line, I can't get any surface area to do damage, so the cannons are there until I get roaches unless I spend 10+ larvae on zerglings to whittle it down (assuming he doesn't just throw up more pylons), and then I'm behind in economy.


you say your scouting this? but you still cant deal with it? because really the second you see that pylon go down start taking it seriously and get your workers down there to start killing it, that way he has to at least build extra pylons and more than likely will do barely any damage beyond lost minning time.

If your really worried about it send your 10 ovie to above your nat and send a drone to follow his probe as soon as you see it in your base.

If he cannons your nat do not atack the cannons with a few lings at a time, build up a few more and go attack his base he cannot defend it he just spent all his money on pylons and cannons in your base.

I'm a little uncertain how early in the game this is happening as you dont seem to have lings out but you have not expanded yet and he has enough time and money to have a forge 2 pylons and a cannon. which is as far as I can tell only possible if he cuts nearly all probe production so you will have like 16 workers to his 8... so you can afford to loose upto 8 workers killing his stuff off.... shouldnt be a problem really especialy if you spot it early before the cannon has time to complete. you should i guess have 16 ish workers and 4 lings by the time his cannon does complete still plenty to crush it without being behind.

You can also just ignore it take your second where your third would normaly be keep macroing up and deal with it when you would normally take your third, that way you will be ahead massively in econ and can build a few extra spines to slow down any pushes on your "third". This is even more effective if your doing spanishiwa style as you should have a tonne of queens and spines with that build no early push he can transition into from that cheese should be able to touch you just dont get greedy.


----------



## Fortunex

It doesn't matter how many drones I pull off, only 2-3 at max can hit a pylon at the same time because of the mineral wall. Any normal cannon rush I can hold off easily.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Fortunex*   It doesn't matter how many drones I pull off, only 2-3 at max can hit a pylon at the same time because of the mineral wall. Any normal cannon rush I can hold off easily.  
Do the worker mineral mine trick to get all your drones to hit at once

  
 You Tube


----------



## Fortunex

That works for contains, but it just makes your drones walk around if there's an opening. I'll try to get it to work though, thanks.

Just had a pretty funny ZvZ, epic last-second Ultras.

  
 You Tube  



 
And just had the most amazing game of my life. 40 minute ZvZ and we were like dead even until the end.


----------



## iambald

I like the BM at the end


----------



## BigFan

Haven't been checking this thread recently, but, guys, take it easy. No need to call each other idiots








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14796139*
> and now you're going somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I miss our games.
> 
> I'm not going anywhere anytime soon again, and I check this thread quite a lot so wouldn't mind...
> 
> anything I need to know about what to do, apart from not turning this thread into the official unicorns thread?


hehe, nah, just make sure to update the OP if anyone adds a stream/replay pack, etc.... and you should be fine








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14801255*
> U don't push when the zerg have banes? -_- How on earth do u win ur zvts? The strength of infestorling is make ur zerg army strong so it can kill terran's push. The strength of Mutabling is to make ur army mobile, so it can counter the T's base when terran's in the middle of the map, and still come back and defend it.


I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I said I don't *a-move* my army when he has banes because I'll run into them, rather leap frog my tanks and split my marines, thank you


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14825960*
> Haven't been checking this thread recently, but, guys, take it easy. No need to call each other idiots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hehe, nah, just make sure to update the OP if anyone adds a stream/replay pack, etc.... and you should be fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I said I don't *a-move* my army when he has banes because I'll run into them, rather leap frog my tanks and split my marines, thank you


Haha ofc







But note one thing tho. From my understanding, for most situations, using ur apms on focusing firing ur tanks on banelings are far more effective than just focusing on marine splits. Ofc, doing them both are far better, but most don't have the capabilities to do both effectively.
For a lazy, none-terran user like myself, i prefer just stimming marines away first, kill banes with tanks, and move marines forward against mutas.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14822320*
> That works for contains, but it just makes your drones walk around if there's an opening. I'll try to get it to work though, thanks.


it works for every thing you not just contains the mineral walking makes your drones so they stack up on top of each other then the A move means they all get 1 hit before they spread back out again...its really useful you can use it as any race to hold 6 pools if you didn't have time to wall off







obviously in that case it gives you a perfect surround









Regardless As I said if he is walling himself in with pylons then he is heavily invested in his cannon rush counter his main or just take your 2nd in your 3rd instead of your nat and be far far ahead econ wise then take a quick 3rd when you have a few army units to take down his cannons easy. You can afford to loose allot more than you think and still be ahead. if your ending up behind its because your getting flustered panicking and making poor choices.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14827048*
> it works for every thing you not just contains the mineral walking makes your drones so they stack up on top of each other then the A move means they all get 1 hit before they spread back out again...its really useful you can use it as any race to hold 6 pools if you didn't have time to wall off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless As I said if he is walling himself in with pylons then he is heavily invested in his cannon rush counter his main or just take your 2nd in your 3rd instead of your nat and be far far ahead econ wise then take a quick 3rd when you have a few army units to take down his cannons easy. You can afford to loose allot more than you think and still be ahead. if your ending up behind its because your getting flustered panicking and making poor choices.


The worker stacking trick works for all races too


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14827092*
> The worker stacking trick works for all races too


yeah i say drones because he is Zerg....although i do have a habit of calling all workers drones and all supply pylons


----------



## BountyHead

The GSL Code S games were really good today , I'm very excited for the finals!


----------



## Ruckol1

hooly **** is t ever broken atm


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14828979*
> hooly **** is t ever broken atm


how so?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14828979*
> hooly **** is t ever broken atm


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


how so?




















Also lol at PvT in Korea:


----------



## Sainesk

whether you think T is broken or not I think this is a hilarious thread worth reading: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3053955526

my fave part: 
Kate: Please tell us about your battle experience with all of the Terran Dominion's enemies!

Marine: Sure Kate. There are 2 bad guys out there: The ZERG, and them dam blue Marines.

Kate: What? What about the Protoss?

Marine: Toss what?.... Oh you mean them Jedi things. Naw all they do is run around pretending to be invisible, they're not really that big a deal


----------



## DoomDash

So what your saying is Protoss players are bad? I'm going to have to agree poroboszcz.

No but really that graph is pretty compelling that things are pretty well balanced. 2% is really good for a game, and Terrans have always been best , even in BW that kind of percentage being Terran favored was common ). I do think Protoss has the worst players over all ( IMO deal with it ), but hey you guys are getting buffed next patch, and Z and T are getting nerfed for the most part.


----------



## Ruckol1

Im just complaing about my plat problems.. scout a gas build 5 roaches to stop hel harass then poof banshees gg. etc. it goes on


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Im just complaing about my plat problems.. scout a gas build 5 roaches to stop hel harass then poof banshees gg. etc. it goes on


so dont blind build roaches....build a spine or 2 and an extra queen and your covered from both, youll want an evo anyway to help sim city out the hellions so build that. if you still see nothing at the front after a reasonable amount of time sac an overlord to get the information you need.

As for balance Right now I would say P appears weak because they refuse to adapt they are still doing the same high risk early expansion builds and finally T and Z are punishing them for it.

P in all matchups are like Zerg in ZvZ stagnant, it needs a few good imaginitive players to sit down and play the matchups out in some long series and come up with some real new styles.


----------



## Fortunex

Terran isn't much fun to play against when they abuse what their race can do (everything). I don't know if they're OP, just really easy to do well with. It feels like you have to be a lot better than a Terran player to beat them, whereas you only have to be a little better vs Protoss or Zerg.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Terran isn't much fun to play against when they abuse what their race can do (everything). I don't know if they're OP, just really easy to do well with. *It feels like you have to be a lot better than a Terran* player to beat them, whereas you only have to be a little better vs Protoss or Zerg.


I feel the same way, once marines + Siege are out you have to have an absurd macro advantage or ridiculously better apm/micro than your opponent.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Terran isn't much fun to play against when they abuse what their race can do (everything). I don't know if they're OP, just really easy to do well with. It feels like you have to be a lot better than a Terran player to beat them, whereas you only have to be a little better vs Protoss or Zerg.


I dunno. Maybe early game, playing Terran is easy but if you play a macro Zerg, late game is a pain for Terran. It's really why Blizzard slightly nerfed infestors. Takes one more FG to take out vikings now which should help against infestor+BL composition.

I rarely win TvsZ games if they go into the late game because you can't tech switch as fast as a Zerg. That and they will have so many bases on the map, you might as well rage quit because they keep remaking them XD I remember this one TvsZ game on Abyssal Caverns where my Zerg opponent kept expanding all over the map. I must've killed easily a dozen or so exps and kept dropping throughout, even taking out 20+ drones with a BFH drop but I just couldn't put as much of a dent as I wanted.

When we had an engagement after he dropped my main with slings followed by ultras, I was able to create a choke on the ramp(base was ripped to pieces) and he lost his 7+ ultras with max upgrades so I rolled across the map with my remaining army taking out bases as I went. As I approached his exp, he comes in with 7+ BLs that he just morphed(saw it in replay), so, my MMT was slaughtered. I gg'd right after that, didn't even see it coming!!!!









Given, I could've played a lot better and put more harass but once he took that 3rd, it was pretty much gg. That and from my Z experience, aside from possibly splitting banes or some units and trying to flank, micro was very minimal for Zerg









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


Im just complaing about my plat problems.. scout a gas build 5 roaches to stop hel harass then poof banshees gg. etc. it goes on


Scout? tbh, I don't see how this can be an issue. Back when I was in Silver, I lost countless games to Banshee because I got my evo late, no 2nd queen, etc.... but from that point, my evo chamber came right after my roach warren and I usually place 1-3 spore near each hatchery incase. Obviously, at a pro level, that many spores might not be a good idea but I don't recall dying to banshees since









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


whether you think T is broken or not I think this is a hilarious thread worth reading: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3053955526

my fave part: 
Kate: Please tell us about your battle experience with all of the Terran Dominion's enemies!

Marine: Sure Kate. There are 2 bad guys out there: The ZERG, and them dam blue Marines.

Kate: What? What about the Protoss?

Marine: Toss what?.... Oh you mean them Jedi things. Naw all they do is run around pretending to be invisible, they're not really that big a deal


hehe, thanks for the link. I liked that part as well. Well written, loved the bane part and the fat marines comment


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*


I feel the same way, once marines + Siege are out you have to have an absurd macro advantage or ridiculously better apm/micro than your opponent.


no you just need slings and speed banes A-Move then he is the one having to do crazy micro. and if he engages you on creep then well its pretty much GG cos no micro in the world will save him.

ofc if you dont have enough then you will die horribly but hey same as every fight and you are just throwing slings which are more or less free and banes which are pretty damn cost effective vs marines.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14833409*
> no you just need slings and speed banes A-Move then he is the one having to do crazy micro. and if he engages you on creep then well its pretty much GG cos no micro in the world will save him.
> 
> ofc if you dont have enough then you will die horribly but hey same as every fight and you are just throwing slings which are more or less free and banes which are pretty damn cost effective vs marines.


So terran biased ROFL.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14834997*
> So terran biased ROFL.


hehe, that would work if he wasn't a random player









I agree with him though. If you engage a well spread out MMT force without sufficient slings+blings then you are expected to lose the engagement PERIOD!







I've lost count how many times I've done just that only to have my opponent clean up my force then my base. Likewise, I've lost count of how many times I've seen my opponents run their banes into my tanks insread of microing into my marines. If anything, it's much easier to just a move the slings in and then move in the banes and split them to go after the marines, maybe a surround or something. On the other hand, trying to outrun speed banes and split on the go is harder to do imo. I guess it comes down to preference


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14836459*
> hehe, that would work if he wasn't a random player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with him though. If you engage a well spread out MMT force without sufficient slings+blings then you are expected to lose the engagement PERIOD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've lost count how many times I've done just that only to have my opponent clean up my force then my base. Likewise, I've lost count of how many times I've seen my opponents run their banes into my tanks insread of microing into my marines. If anything, it's much easier to just a move the slings in and then move in the banes and split them to go after the marines, maybe a surround or something. On the other hand, trying to outrun speed banes and split on the go is harder to do imo. I guess it comes down to preference


"A-moving bling is so ez while marine split is so hard" such a cliche terran comment







. Can't help but to laugh.
'Erryday I'm stutterin', errday I'm stutterin'.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14831200*
> So what your saying is Protoss players are bad? I'm going to have to agree poroboszcz.
> 
> No but really that graph is pretty compelling that things are pretty well balanced. 2% is really good for a game, and Terrans have always been best , even in BW that kind of percentage being Terran favored was common ). I do think Protoss has the worst players over all ( IMO deal with it ), but hey you guys are getting buffed next patch, and Z and T are getting nerfed for the most part.


Assuming practise is the main factor for success, I think it's completely unreasonable to say any progamers of a particular race practices less or more than others. Complete dominance of terrans in the highest professional level shows terran is the race with the highest skill cap. Is that OP for us? No, but it's not okay for competitive sport. Also, in BW even though numerically, toss were the most least dominant race, bw is very balanced unlike sc2, in terms of "good players' race distribution." Every race had their share of dominant players and tournament wins.

I don't think sc2 will ever be "balanced" in the competitive scene until a lot are fixed and improved, like protoss and zerg getting to have many varieties in their playstyle like terran, and the huge imbalance between instant targeting and missile targeting. Hopefully Heart of the Swarm will bring more improvements.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14834997*
> So terran biased ROFL.


Not really you only have to look like 2 gsl's ago and that was what zerg was doing In my experience very few players bellow masters are doing splits in a way that is vaguely helping them and if he is already set up and spread out spread him thinner or force him to group up by picking at the sides or countering in his base thats what muta micro is for. Slow pushes give you plenty of time to prepare and counter.

Personally I prefer to play ZvT by just more or less avoiding getting into a fight with T at all, just keep picking at him picking off a few marines here a tank there some scv's over there etc stretch his multi tasking and harrass him to death.

If you let T get too many tanks up then they hit a critical mass where it becomes incredibly hard to engage him but against midgame pressure slings and banes work fine,


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14838744*
> Not really you only have to look like 2 gsl's ago and that was what zerg was doing In my experience very few players bellow masters are doing splits in a way that is vaguely helping them and if he is already set up and spread out spread him thinner or force him to group up by picking at the sides or countering in his base thats what muta micro is for. Slow pushes give you plenty of time to prepare and counter.


Most of the zergs still stick with muta ling bane, and pretty much all of the good zvters use it exclusively. But that wasn't what u seemed like implying, it was the whole "zerg is ez, terran is hardcore" bs cliche lol. Ofc, it same for all races, toss is ez, zerg is up, marines op, infestors op, etc etc.

A player who a-moves his army should not be matched with a player who can splits his marines. Every half decent zerg knows the concept of baneling +ling micro, and thinking it's a-move only suggests u're sub-par or just trolling.
Quote:


> Personally I prefer to play ZvT by just more or less avoiding getting into a fight with T at all, just keep picking at him picking off a few marines here a tank there some scv's over there etc stretch his multi tasking and harrass him to death.


Correct. I'd like to add how much mutas add to the strength of counter attacks and their ability to hinder terran's push. However, losing mutas during harass is bad for most cases. Don't trade rines with mutas, and don't over-do the harassing. The main point of it is to make terran scared and hide inside his base, not to do gamebreaking damage.
Quote:


> If you let T get too many tanks up then they hit a critical mass where it becomes incredibly hard to engage him but against midgame pressure slings and banes work fine,


That's what hive units are for.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


A player who a-moves his army should not be matched with a player who can splits his marines. Every half decent zerg knows the concept of baneling +ling micro, and thinking it's a-move only suggests u're sub-par or just trolling.



I'm only in diamond but i've yet to see a player who splits marines remotely well. and its not as simple as A-moving but its pretty close the trick it timing it so your hitting from lots of directions at once. Z micro in that situation is far less intense than marine splits no way you can argue otherwise.


----------



## Ruckol1

lol terran so damn broke. 3 tank siege + marine timing push off 1 base lolololololtrolololotrolololololol thanku for ptr, hopefully new patch will actually delay racks much longer than 6 ******* seconds


----------



## DoomDash

That sounds super easy to hold, maybe you should get better. More pew pew, less qq.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


That sounds super easy to hold, maybe you should get better. More pew pew, less qq.


just so you know doom im gonna save that for next time your QQing about something ^^

but yeah when you loose a game the thing to do is to look back over the replay and work out when you lost the game I promis you in that game it wasnt when he marched accross the map with his 3 seige tanks, at some point you made a mistake and got too greedy didnt scout well enough, If they are not expanding then there is a timming push coming you cannot keep droning hard you have to start pumping units. The difference between a good zerg and a bad one is knowing when and how many workers you can get away with building.

That said ladder maps are mostly Bull blizzard need to look at what the competetive comunity plays on and start paying those map makers for thier maps cos the stuff we get on ladder is just horrible.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1;14842238*
> lol terran so damn broke. 3 tank siege + marine timing push off 1 base lolololololtrolololotrolololololol thanku for ptr, hopefully new patch will actually delay racks much longer than 6 ******* seconds


Terran broke? Funny. I hope that you realize that workers counter siege tanks or any tank play early game. I know this from playing a ton of TvT's. You should be able to deal with a 1 base siege all in easily with a speedling/queen/drone pull. Speedlings + drones = bye bye siege tanks (early to mid game of course).


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Can someone provide me with a CPU intensive match so i can test some CPU?


----------



## Dr216

if you want cpu intensive set up a 4v4 with 4 insane computers on each team....that should be pretty cpu intensive.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14845262*
> if you want cpu intensive set up a 4v4 with 4 insane computers on each team....that should be pretty cpu intensive.


Ok that sounds good, thanks.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14843068*
> *just so you know doom im gonna save that for next time your QQing about something ^^*
> 
> but yeah when you loose a game the thing to do is to look back over the replay and work out when you lost the game I promis you in that game it wasnt when he marched accross the map with his 3 seige tanks, at some point you made a mistake and got too greedy didnt scout well enough, If they are not expanding then there is a timming push coming you cannot keep droning hard you have to start pumping units. The difference between a good zerg and a bad one is knowing when and how many workers you can get away with building.
> 
> That said ladder maps are mostly Bull blizzard need to look at what the competetive comunity plays on and start paying those map makers for thier maps cos the stuff we get on ladder is just horrible.


I like u a lot
Quote:


> Terran broke? Funny. I hope that you realize that *workers counter siege tanks* or any tank play early game. I know this from playing a ton of TvT's. You should be able to deal with a 1 base siege all in easily with a speedling/queen/drone pull. Speedlings + drones = bye bye siege tanks (early to mid game of course).


Oh WOW i think this is the first time someone said workers counter siege tanks. You're so funny :3
Quote:


> lol terran so damn broke. 3 tank siege + marine timing push off 1 base lolololololtrolololotrolololololol thanku for ptr, hopefully new patch will actually delay racks much longer than 6 ******* seconds


That kind of terran push will most likely come when ur spire is halfway done. Don't save ur gas, use them on banes, stall a bit of time, and u should be able to stop that easy.
Quote:


> I'm only in diamond but i've yet to see a player who splits marines remotely well. and its not as simple as A-moving but its pretty close the trick it timing it so your hitting from lots of directions at once. Z micro in that situation is far less intense than marine splits no way you can argue otherwise.


For a diamond or master player, stimming marines away from the banes and using the seige tanks to focus fire on the banes is far more effective.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14846505*
> I like u a lot
> 
> For a diamond or master player, stimming marines away from the banes and using the seige tanks to focus fire on the banes is far more effective.


Thanks









and this is why i like to make samiches....he stims marines they run one way from my banes into my other banes







mutas come in clean up his tanks.


----------



## DoomDash

I generally only QQ about my own problems with a match up, not saying it's OP. Plus its much more rare than these guys.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er;14845251*
> Can someone provide me with a CPU intensive match so i can test some CPU?


Tom's Hardware uploaded their SC2 benchmark map to Battle.net a while back. I just checked and it still shows up in-game - search for "toms" and it'll be named "TOMS HARDWARE GUIDE V2."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/starcraft-ii-radeon-geforce,2728-3.html


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14837310*
> "A-moving bling is so ez while marine split is so hard" such a cliche terran comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Can't help but to laugh.
> 'Erryday I'm stutterin', errday I'm stutterin'.


It might be cliche, but, it's true. Terran is a lot more micro intensive than Zerg, why did you think I switched over?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14846505*
> Oh WOW i think this is the first time someone said workers counter siege tanks. You're so funny :3


hehe, I believe his point was that, siege tanks might be strong but once you are up close, a worker can take out a tank. That and their firing rate isn't the fastest so slings can easily narrow the gap after the first shot


----------



## DoomDash

Of course its true ^^.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I generally only QQ about my own problems with a match up, not saying it's OP. Plus its much more rare than these guys.


I know I just thought it was funny, also being one of the better/the best player here means when you say amg I hate X it drives me nuts people think it must be op.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


I know I just thought it was funny, also being one of the better/the best player here means when you say amg I hate X it drives me nuts people think it must be op.


http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

Also, My KR account is not up there. 500+ master there


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14850881*
> http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/
> 
> Also, My KR account is not up there. 500+ master there


which one is you I dont see Sangers on there







but yeah i will amend go with one of the better not the best then







wasn't really sure who of the active people here were in what leagues


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14850929*
> which one is you I dont see Sangers on there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but yeah i will amend go with one of the better not the best then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wasn't really sure who of the active people here were in what leagues


Don't play in NA anymore. I told my friend to use it like 3-4months ago. I think he stopped playing as well.


----------



## Drugz

protoss isnt weak, depends on the player, ive been watching live streams from team liquid last night, some dude from team liquid vs a guy from ogs, T V P, protoss owns all matches, and they are high grand masters in Korea


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Drugz*


protoss isnt weak, depends on the player, ive been watching live streams from team liquid last night, some dude from team liquid vs a guy from ogs, T V P, protoss owns all matches, and they are high grand masters in Korea


Like.

Wish I was high grand.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Drugz*


protoss isnt weak, depends on the player, ive been watching live streams from team liquid last night, some dude from team liquid vs a guy from ogs, T V P, protoss owns all matches, and they are high grand masters in Korea


Don't mean to sound rude, but that i believe, is the single worst argument against toss up i've ever heard -_- Skipping the part where i tell u some b-level pro in a stream does not help a balance argument, There are no KOREAN terrans in team liquid, so it means it was Foreigner T vs Korean P. Racial imbalance discussion doesn't apply to Korean vs Foreigner, cause koreans win 95% of the time anyway.


----------



## Sangers_low

Btw, sorry to all MC fans, but he got kicked out of code s. Hopely MKP will come back up


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Btw, sorry to all MC fans, but he got kicked out of code s. Hopely MKP will come back up


ouch please tell me losira stayed up though.


----------



## DoomDash

I have 300 bonus poll!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


ouch please tell me losira stayed up though.


Tiebreakers between Losira, Check and Jjakji D: They're doing it again because they went 1:1:1 on the first time O_O


----------



## Dr216

2 of those going up or did kyrix? i think it was the last one in that grp go up?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


2 of those going up or did kyrix? i think it was the last one in that grp go up?


Losira and Jjakji went up. Really sad for check, who's been practicing crazy these days. He also went 3:0 for his first m

5-2 Losira
5-2 Jjakji
4-4 Check
1-3 MC
0-4 Kyrix

Tomorrow with taeja and mkp's gonna be fun :3


----------



## Dr216

Jjakji is good but i was really hoping he wouldn't go up, gsl has enough tvt as it is. mc in code A bets on alecia making it through? soon there will be no Toss in code s at all : / gonna be 24 T 2 P and 6 Z or something ><


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Jjakji is good but i was really hoping he wouldn't go up, gsl has enough tvt as it is. mc in code A bets on alecia making it through? soon there will be no Toss in code s at all : / gonna be 24 T 2 P and 6 Z or something ><


Jjakji is very good, kinda like the love child between MVP and MKP. However, until he steps up his tvt, he won't do well in code s. MC and Alicia are BOTH in code a and tomorrow's match is for Trickster and JYP. Trickster will mostly likely fall, due to is incredibly weak tvp, but JYP could pull out something, but not a favourite to go up, with MKP and Taeja in the group.

There's still Puzzle, Genius, Huk and Hongun left. Huk will fall down as soon as he gets a bad group, puzzle and Hongun will linger unless they're incredibly unlucky and Genius is showing good and bad matches at the same time, so I'll reserve judgement.

Protoss is obviously looking bad, but with the recent code a qualifier's map change, we saw a lot of them go through. 5p, 5z, 2t, so maybe the maps will at least manage some of what blizzard can't.


----------



## Dr216

hongun has stepped up mhis game allot but he still has gaping holes in his play and decision making...i honestly dont see him staying up that much longer either.

Will be interesting to see if it end up being map changes or simply p and z evolving.


----------



## Sainesk

wonder when the patch will be out already, i'm curious about how the extra 5 second rax build time will affect my Terran play, I can't be bothered trying it on the PTR...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14856547*
> wonder when the patch will be out already, i'm curious about how the extra 5 second rax build time will affect my Terran play, I can't be bothered trying it on the PTR...


What was the logic behind the 5 second increase? Is that supposed to deter bunker rushes/2rax or something? Personally, I'm pumped for the HSM speed increase....







. I might try it when I play drunk 4s one night....


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;14856598*
> What was the logic behind the 5 second increase? Is that supposed to deter bunker rushes/2rax or something? Personally, I'm pumped for the HSM speed increase....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I might try it when I play drunk 4s one night....


3 less/late marines (5 seconds behind) from the popular 3 rax all in might make the difference between a win or loss in a lot of games I reckon...

HSM is awesome, me and bigfan were messing with it a while back and when I made a pure baneling army; 1 HSM killed like 40 of them, or at least 20 - can't really remember...


----------



## Sainesk

since the blizzcon ticket starcraft 2 item hasn't been announced yet, what would it take you to shell out $40 for one?

I would want all my marine's to be Jim Raynor clones... and for 40 whole bucks I wouldn't mind a Kerrigan plushie...









and don't be a spoilsport and say nothing, not buying.


----------



## Razultull

Good news guys i FINALLY got Diamond! Rank 4 in my league with 400ish points.!!!11


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;14858788*
> since the blizzcon ticket starcraft 2 item hasn't been announced yet, what would it take you to shell out $40 for one?
> 
> I would want all my marine's to be Jim Raynor clones... and for 40 whole bucks I wouldn't mind a Kerrigan plushie...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and don't be a spoilsport and say nothing, not buying.


I'm sure when they mean an "in-game" item for sc2, they mean a portrait.. Wish it was something unit related though, like the special edition Thors.


----------



## EonShiKeno

Hi all.

I have a new Tutorial video up.

TvP - 1/1/1 Build that uses Marines Tanks and Banshee

It's a very popular build now on the ladder. I use it myself on the Masters ladder.
Let me know what you think of it.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno;14859427*
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a new Tutorial video up.
> 
> TvP - 1/1/1 Build that uses Marines Tanks and Banshee
> 
> It's a very popular build now on the ladder. I use it myself on the Masters ladder.
> Let me know what you think of it.
> 
> Watch it here!


U'd need at least 5 videos to demonstrate 1/1/1 properly. SOoo many variations of timings and unit composition







In KR server, the majority do the banshee heavy variation, but I'm zerg in the ladder, so this belief comes from custom games.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


since the blizzcon ticket starcraft 2 item hasn't been announced yet, what would it take you to shell out $40 for one?

I would want all my marine's to be Jim Raynor clones... and for 40 whole bucks I wouldn't mind a Kerrigan plushie...









and don't be a spoilsport and say nothing, not buying.


sorry, not buying









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Razultull*


Good news guys i FINALLY got Diamond! Rank 4 in my league with 400ish points.!!!11


Congrats









Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi all.

I have a new Tutorial video up.

TvP - 1/1/1 Build that uses Marines Tanks and Banshee

It's a very popular build now on the ladder. I use it myself on the Masters ladder.
Let me know what you think of it.

Watch it here!


This build is soo popular right now, it's kinda ridiculous. Hopefully the actual units don't get nerfed but another P units gets added in HoTS that helps against this


----------



## NguyenAdam

I want my reaver!!


----------



## Sangers_low

I hate foreigner Bias -_- For the gsl all stars, Huk and Jinro got selected instead of Losira, Bomber and Optimus. Huk is inevitable, but Jinro shouldn't logically be favoured over Losira and Bomber









Considering the only good players in the list are Nestea, July, DRG, MMA and MKP, DRG or Nestea should most likely take this, but if MMA gets lucky in his opponents(zergs), he can take this as well. (I have no idea how the bracket works tho)


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EonShiKeno*


Hi all.

I have a new Tutorial video up.

TvP - 1/1/1 Build that uses Marines Tanks and Banshee

It's a very popular build now on the ladder. I use it myself on the Masters ladder.
Let me know what you think of it.

Watch it here!



soooooo basically a 1 base cheese

im a huge fan of playing standard on the ladder except in TvT which is super super fun (main is zerg) but i find the 1 base plays to be kinda stupid. the 1 1 1 can be done on 2 base to toss and its pretty redic and it can be done vs zerg as a 1 base but both ways its kind of lame... if you play you should play to enjoy PLUS win not just go all in to win.

like cannon rush... that being said im myself a former almost GM zerg and masters other 2 races im getting back into sc2 and i need a nice crew of top players to practice with and have a bit more fun if anyones a high tiered masters player hit me up


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eosgreen*


soooooo basically a 1 base cheese

im a huge fan of playing standard on the ladder except in TvT which is super super fun (main is zerg) but i find the 1 base plays to be kinda stupid. the 1 1 1 can be done on 2 base to toss and its pretty redic and it can be done vs zerg as a 1 base but both ways its kind of lame... if you play you should play to enjoy PLUS win not just go all in to win.

like cannon rush... that being said im myself a former almost GM zerg and masters other 2 races im getting back into sc2 and i need a nice crew of top players to practice with and have a bit more fun if anyones a high tiered masters player hit me up


That entire post makes me lol


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14861770*
> I hate foreigner Bias -_- For the gsl all stars, Huk and Jinro got selected instead of Losira, Bomber and Optimus. Huk is inevitable, but Jinro shouldn't logically be favoured over Losira and Bomber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the only good players in the list are Nestea, July, DRG, MMA and MKP, DRG or Nestea should most likely take this, but if MMA gets lucky in his opponents(zergs), he can take this as well. (I have no idea how the bracket works tho)


I personally dont think DRG is that great. He is a great Zerg in his own right but I wouldnt put him up there in the top 5 zergs. What did the poll itself say? I dont think it said "pick the top x players", think it was based on favoritism. Huk and Jinro are very likable players. It would be another story if it was a skill based poll...


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;14864809*
> I personally dont think DRG is that great. He is a great Zerg in his own right but I wouldnt put him up there in the top 5 zergs. Was did the poll itself say? I dont think it said "pick the top x players", think it was based on favoritism. Huk and Jinro are very likable players. It would be another story if it was a skill based poll...


I didn't say DRG's a top 5 zerg, but i'd put him in contest, because who else would u pick?  Nestea, Losira are probably a tier above him, but the rest isn't rly easy. U'd have a hard case arguing other code s zergs to be a clear favourite against him.

Also, DRG is definitely better than the other 5 names i didn't mention(MC, Huk, Jinro, Nada and Boxer), and the names i mentioned aren't "great" they're just "good." July, who, despite his legend status, cheesed his way into semis and MKP who isn't exactly is top tier terran.

But you're right about favouritism part. I guess i'm just disappointed that Losira, Bomber and Optimus isn't getting enough love


----------



## yks

It's just like the NBA All-Star games, all fan-votes. Nothing to do with skill, just a popularity contest. Can't hate who the majority picks.


----------



## NguyenAdam

DRG better than MC? Not sure if srs.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14859304*
> Good news guys i FINALLY got Diamond! Rank 4 in my league with 400ish points.!!!11


noob


----------



## MrSleepin

i'm logged in right now... MrSleepin.314

i play a lot of team games.. just havent been on a lot since the new ladder


----------



## Sainesk

just when I'm starting to believe I'm good enough to beat 6 pools, I get 6 pooled by a master leaguer, and lose









I probably deserve it, didn't scout...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just when I'm starting to believe I'm good enough to beat 6 pools, I get 6 pooled by a master leaguer, and lose









I probably deserve it, didn't scout...










What race do you play?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just when I'm starting to believe I'm good enough to beat 6 pools, I get 6 pooled by a master leaguer, and lose









I probably deserve it, didn't scout...










u still laddering?







Guessing it was a custom









BTW, Puma streams:
http://www.twitch.tv/leehojoon
Not on atm but he was on last night I believe


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


What race do you play?


I play random, but if you mean the game I got owned by 6 pool on, Protoss


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*


DRG better than MC? Not sure if srs.


I take it you haven't watched GSL since June? His winrate from GSL Aug to now is 30percent. He's been knocked out of Code S in a "convincing" fashion, and he hasn't done anything noteworthy in either gstl or gsl for ages.


----------



## Sangers_low

I take back everything I said about the GSL all stars. Not a tourney or anything, just a series of showmatch between players. 5 matches with 10 players, and they matched the players reasonably as well.

Jinro vs *Fruitdealer* - 2010 sc2 kings
MC vs *Losira* - Rematch, Losira won the last game, pushing MC down to code a
*July* vs Boxer - Old bw legends
*MMA* vs MKP - Terran fan favourites
*Nestea* vs Huk - Fan favourites lol

Bold shows my predictions. Not rly hard to predict these, considering Jinro's horrible at tvz, MC already got outclassed completely two days ago, July is obviously more accomplished than boxer and Nestea is... O_O. MKP could pull an upset, but MMA's favourite.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14873035*
> I take it you haven't watched GSL since June? His winrate from GSL Aug to now is 30percent. He's been knocked out of Code S in a "convincing" fashion, and he hasn't done anything noteworthy in either gstl or gsl for ages.


nor has any other P really they need to step up their game and start mixing it up a little.


----------



## HometownHero

Neural no longer effects massive units. The sound of Thors and Colossi rejoicing can be heard everywhere.

Edit: "neural", I'm an idiot and tried posting that first thing in the morning.


----------



## gonX

Neural Parasite is also going to be unusuable on massive units as well. That makes Thor's like 10x more powerful vs Zerg, as if they weren't already very good.


----------



## dcloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14876664*
> Neural Parasite is also going to be unusuable on massive units as well. That makes Thor's like 10x more powerful vs Zerg, as if they weren't already very good.


This change was just recent correct?

I SWEAR the change on Neural Parasite was not listed initially when they released the PTR notes.

As a Zerg..........I was struggling severely to beat Terran Mech. compositions that included Thors with Neural Parasite.

What the hell am I gonna do now?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dcloud;14876745*
> This change was just recent correct?
> 
> I SWEAR the change on Neural Parasite was not listed initially when they released the PTR notes.
> 
> As a Zerg..........I was struggling severely to beat Terran Mech. compositions that included Thors with Neural Parasite.
> 
> What the hell am I gonna do now?


Roach drop is pretty good against mech. If the T goes mech, u can take a much earlier expo. The NP nerf is more designed to help toss for NPing archons, immortals and colosi.

Still, nerfing zerg isn't gonna do much to help the 20T 7Z 5P in gsl. Well the game is technically called Terrancraft >_>.


----------



## DoomDash

Infestor’s Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units. LOL wut. mass thors


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14876778*
> Roach drop is pretty good against mech. If the T goes mech, u can take a much earlier expo. The NP nerf is more designed to help toss for NPing archons, immortals and colosi.
> 
> Still, nerfing zerg isn't gonna do much to help the 20T 7Z 5P in gsl. Well the game is technically called Terrancraft >_>.


Are there statistics anywhere that show how many people play each race out of all the races? I know there was a discussion awhile back about it, but I always thought there were just a greater number of Terran players. Its the main race in the campaign, and as someone who never played BW, I instantly used Terran in multiplayer because it was the only race I knew how to play. I would imagine this is a fairly common situation. I hate playing against Z and when HoTS comes out, I can only imagine there will be a lot more Z on the ladder.


----------



## Mwarren

Mechs actually going to be really good vs zerg now, and late game BC's are going to be viable.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14877481*
> Mechs actually going to be really good vs zerg now, and late game BC's are going to be viable.


It already was really good. I think the thought process behind it may be: Ultras are much faster. Ultras rape mech in lots of situations, and they also rape most Toss if the build time is decreased.

*I want to start playing SCII again, its hard to get myself in the mental state to play it now*


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14877106*
> Infestor's Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units. LOL wut. mass thors


If this change goes thru then they might as well just remove zerg from the game altogether. It makes zerg unplayable.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;14877409*
> Are there statistics anywhere that show how many people play each race out of all the races? I know there was a discussion awhile back about it, but I always thought there were just a greater number of Terran players. Its the main race in the campaign, and as someone who never played BW, I instantly used Terran in multiplayer because it was the only race I knew how to play. I would imagine this is a fairly common situation. I hate playing against Z and when HoTS comes out, I can only imagine there will be a lot more Z on the ladder.


There are about equal amount of Terrans and protoss, while zerg's like 25-30%. Doesn't account to the racial imbalance in the competitive scene, since 90%+pros are bw/wc3 players and they'd pick their familiar race. And when HotS comes out, nothing will change because most will stick to their familiar race.
Quote:


> It already was really good. I think the thought process behind it may be: Ultras are much faster. Ultras rape mech in lots of situations, and they also rape most Toss if the build time is decreased.


BLs are far better than ultras against mech because Thors are rly bad against bls and mech don't have the mobility to go for a base trade. I personally don't think ultras would "rape" protoss just because they got a 15 second time buff. Thors take 60, Colossus take 75. Ultras should definitely take less cause it's the worst unit out of the three.
Quote:


> If this change goes thru then they might as well just remove Neural Parasite from the game altogether. It makes Neural Parasite unplayable.


Fix'd







Zerg's still fine, but blizzard did make NP completely useless O_O


----------



## DoomDash

It's a pretty dumb change at this point. I don't like it. and yeah I hate BL's with a passion.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*
> 
> Fix'd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerg's still fine, but blizzard did make NP completely useless O_O


Are you serious? Colossus/Archon deathball goes back to being an a-move autowin. Mothership is unkillable now. Thors become vastly stronger. Even battlecruisers will be viable now. It's the end of any chance zerg has to win a long macro game with max armies clashing. It's the end of zerg as a competitive option for pro players. It's pretty much the end of zerg.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14877808*
> Are you serious? Colossus/Archon deathball goes back to being an a-move autowin. Mothership is unkillable now. Thors become vastly stronger. Even battlecruisers will be viable now. It's the end of any chance zerg has to win a long macro game with max armies clashing. It's the end of zerg as a competitive option for pro players. It's pretty much the end of zerg.


Hehe well I'm a bit bias. My strength is mid-game with Mutablingling for tvz, and Lingbling corrupter for pvz.

But yeah, blizzard is totally screwed up in their anus  The whole point of NP is to "NP enemy's massive units like Colossus" like it says on the ability's description -_-


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14877600*
> If this change goes thru then they might as well just remove zerg from the game altogether. It makes zerg unplayable.


It would just make all of the spell casters a lot more balanced. Zerg is the only race where its viable to rush to your spell caster in every matchup. Infestors are just too strong right now, they're easily the strongest spell caster in the game. They're also supposed to be a support unit, not a core army unit that's amazing against almost every unit.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14877989*
> It would just make all of the spell casters a lot more balanced. Zerg is the only race where its viable to rush to your spell caster in every matchup. Infestors are just too strong right now, they're easily the strongest spell caster in the game. They're also supposed to be a support unit, not a core army unit that's amazing against almost every unit.


I think this is a good change for Z as infestors were way too powerful. I may be slightly biased as a T, but that BL, infestor, bling deathball always rolled me. I think I'd rather have a fungal nerf though, but this change was definitely used to fix ZvP. I worry that this nerf will spur more outrage for a ghost nerf though







.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14877989*
> It would just make all of the spell casters a lot more balanced. Zerg is the only race where its viable to rush to your spell caster in every matchup. Infestors are just too strong right now, they're easily the strongest spell caster in the game. They're also supposed to be a support unit, not a core army unit that's amazing against almost every unit.


Why can't infestors be a core unit? They're the only zerg unit isn't highly situational in usefulness, which means they should be a core unit. If zerg had other versatile late/mid units I could see your point, but that is not the case. Without infestors you can't build anything resembling a versatile zerg army in the late game. They're a core unit, like it or not.


----------



## DoomDash

I would make NP into still works on massive, but does not work on air units. This would make BC/Carrier/Mothership more viable. It was complete and utter BS that you could NP a mothership.


----------



## yks

Yeah, I don't understand the change either. But I'm not going to complain, I can colossus again.


----------



## Dr216

I really dont like that change, its a knee jerk overreaction to something that isnt even realy a problem.

ZvP isn't in that bad a state right now and TvZ is still favoring T even before you start nerfing infestors, a few second on ultra build time isnt going to compensate for having no effective counter to thors. Roach drops and nydas etc are not realy an effective counter to heavy mech at best you force a base race which he wins because he has an untouchable army and flying buildings. Really dont like that change at all.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14877989*
> It would just make all of the spell casters a lot more balanced. Zerg is the only race where its viable to rush to your spell caster in every matchup. Infestors are just too strong right now, they're easily the strongest spell caster in the game. They're also supposed to be a support unit, not a core army unit that's amazing against almost every unit.


not sure if serious. High templar are pretty good tech units to "rush" to or at least you can safely get them out arround as fast as you would reasonably expect infestors out. That are very strong in all matchups.

Getting ghosts arround the same time as infesters come out is great for TvZ and getting them out at any point vs P is good Leaving only TvT

You also have to tech to infester at some point its not a choice if you ever intend to get a hive so a 20+ min game you have to have an infestation pit.

Its not like Z is only making infesters anyway they are heavily reliant on muta play on allot of maps.


----------



## CravinR1

I think its BS you can fungal colossus, mothership, carrier, BC, Thor etc... But NOT ultralisks


----------



## QuadDamage

Wow I think this will really hurt good zerg player IE STEVEN lol


----------



## Twistacles

The fungal change is a little odd. It's pretty essential to deal with heavy mech armies, and there's no reason why you couldn't fungal a collosus.

Imo, change it to: Mothership can no longer be under the effects of neural parasite.

Done.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Protoss micro is going to be ridiculously easy with the immortal range buff and no NP to worry about on colossus. You can just a-click a giant mass of gateway/robo and it will all sort itself out and colossus will be safe in back. I doubt anybody will even bother to research NP just for immortals, expecially when they have longer range and are harder to get at. I suppose you could NP void rays, but that's not really worth the 150/150 price tag. You're better off saving your money and just using fungus and infested terrans.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;14880450*
> Protoss micro is going to be ridiculously easy with the immortal range buff and no NP to worry about on colossus. You can just a-click a giant mass of gateway/robo and it will all sort itself out and colossus will be safe in back. I doubt anybody will even bother to research NP just for immortals, expecially when they have longer range and are harder to get at. I suppose you could NP void rays, but that's not really worth the 150/150 price tag. You're better off saving your money and just using fungus and infested terrans.


I agree with most of this, but there is a case where Neural is worth it.
If he has a mostly stalker/immortal army, grabbing his immortals can hugely turn the tide.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Maybe Blizz can make NP free since they're nerfing the crap of it. Seems silly to pay 150/150 for it now. Energy cost could be lower too.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


I really dont like that change, its a knee jerk overreaction to something that isnt even realy a problem.

ZvP isn't in that bad a state right now and TvZ is still favoring T even before you start nerfing infestors, a few second on ultra build time isnt going to compensate for having no effective counter to thors. Roach drops and nydas etc are not realy an effective counter to heavy mech at best you force a base race which he wins because he has an untouchable army and flying buildings. Really dont like that change at all.


Most Koreans feel ZvT is pretty balanced right now. I haven't heard *****ing in a long time, unless there is something I've missed ( idra doesn't count )?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


not sure if serious. High templar are pretty good tech units to "rush" to or at least you can safely get them out arround as fast as you would reasonably expect infestors out. That are very strong in all matchups.

Getting ghosts arround the same time as infesters come out is great for TvZ and getting them out at any point vs P is good Leaving only TvT

You also have to tech to infester at some point its not a choice if you ever intend to get a hive so a 20+ min game you have to have an infestation pit.

Its not like Z is only making infesters anyway they are heavily reliant on muta play on allot of maps.


Wrong, what level do you play at? People don't rush Templar pvz or pvp. Rushing to Templar pvt will get you killed most of the time if the Terran is good and scouts your tech before storm tech comes into play, that or its a map that has a natural choke.

Rushing ghosts TvZ means that you wont be able to attack or safely grab a third for a while and ghosts that early will cut into your tank production. Besides, what is a ghost going to do against a ling/bling ubnit comp? Snipe? rofl. Ghosts tvt are almost never seen unless someone is playing a gimmicky style.

Rushing Infestors is viable for Zerg because fungal doesn't need to be researched like storm does yet id consider fungal to be a stronger spell (funny....isn't it.). Fungal can instant kill army's leading into the mid game and make mech useless a long with being able to harass with infested Terran. Blizzard should focus on fixing fungal instead of making np useless.

In my opinion fungal should have to be researched and the energy upgrade should be removed. This would make rushing to Infestors akin to rushing Templar, it leaves a window open where a timing push can straight up kill you punishing people that rush to higher tech like spell casters.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;14882984*
> Wrong, what level do you play at? People don't rush Templar pvz or pvp. Rushing to Templar pvt will get you killed most of the time if the Terran is good and scouts your tech before storm tech comes into play, that or its a map that has a natural choke.
> 
> Rushing ghosts TvZ means that you wont be able to attack or safely grab a third for a while and ghosts that early will cut into your tank production. Besides, what is a ghost going to do against a ling/bling ubnit comp? Snipe? rofl. Ghosts tvt are almost never seen unless someone is playing a gimmicky style.


Diamond random. but you didnt read what i wrote or I didnt make myself clear enough.

your talking about teching straight to infesters in I presume a safe way not a crazy gimmicky all in....In which case were talking 2 bases assuming some early pressure of some sort so no lair till 5 min mark give or take and then assuming we aim to have our infesters pop when path glands finishes so were talking 8 mins + for early "safe" infesters. obviously if your playing against scrubs who dont early pressure vs a Z then it can be done allot faster but that doesnt matter, If you dont put pressure on Z youve lost anyway. Or you can take a risk and gamble on him letting you be greedy and get your tech out quicker but that isnt safe its luck.

I said getting ghost or High templar out at the same time as infesters which is safe and sensible and reasonably common to see in high level play the timing are pretty well worked out. and by high level I dont mean me I mean GSL. TvP T needs ghosts for emp P needs HT for feedback on medivacs and ghosts and archon, and obviously to transition into storm as the research finishes. Feedback, emp and snipe all obviously counter infesters.

for PVP I'd say templar tech is more often just used for the archon particularly in mineral heavy comps like charge zealot archon. But its the same "rush"

TvT I'll give you I rarely use or see them but 2/3 matchups isnt bad.

Rushing infesters in ZvZ is as risky as doing anything in ZvZ number of games you see of ZvZ making it as far as lair tech I'd estimate at less than 30% most are early pools roach timmings and banes. sure in that rare circumstance then infesters are good but I still think muta play nestea style is far safer and more effective.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14882520*
> Most Koreans feel ZvT is pretty balanced right now. I haven't heard *****ing in a long time, unless there is something I've missed ( idra doesn't count )?


Im inclined to agree I guess last few zvt's I watched were all MVP so think im a little jaded


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14883823*
> Diamond random. but you didnt read what i wrote or I didnt make myself clear enough.
> 
> your talking about teching straight to infesters in I presume a safe way not a crazy gimmicky all in....In which case were talking 2 bases assuming some early pressure of some sort so no lair till 5 min mark give or take and then assuming we aim to have our infesters pop when path glands finishes so were talking 8 mins + for early "safe" infesters. obviously if your playing against scrubs who dont early pressure vs a Z then it can be done allot faster but that doesnt matter, If you dont put pressure on Z youve lost anyway. Or you can take a risk and gamble on him letting you be greedy and get your tech out quicker but that isnt safe its luck.
> 
> I said getting ghost or High templar out at the same time as infesters which is safe and sensible and reasonably common to see in high level play the timing are pretty well worked out. and by high level I dont mean me I mean GSL. TvP T needs ghosts for emp P needs HT for feedback on medivacs and ghosts and archon, and obviously to transition into storm as the research finishes. Feedback, emp and snipe all obviously counter infesters.
> 
> for PVP I'd say templar tech is more often just used for the archon particularly in mineral heavy comps like charge zealot archon. But its the same "rush"
> 
> TvT I'll give you I rarely use or see them but 2/3 matchups isnt bad.
> 
> Rushing infesters in ZvZ is as risky as doing anything in ZvZ number of games you see of ZvZ making it as far as lair tech I'd estimate at less than 30% most are early pools roach timmings and banes. sure in that rare circumstance then infesters are good but I still think muta play nestea style is far safer and more effective.
> 
> Im inclined to agree I guess last few zvt's I watched were all MVP so think im a little jaded


U can't blindly rush infestors in zvz, rushing ghosts in pvt is only second best to 1/1/1


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14882520*
> Most Koreans feel ZvT is pretty balanced right now. I haven't heard *****ing in a long time, unless there is something I've missed ( idra doesn't count )?


They're srsly *****ing about the ghost play mvp showcased vs July, but they don't feel it's as broken as pvt.


----------



## HarrisLam

ive bought this thing for almost 2 years now.....

i never realized that......

in SEA, I am a Terran.......

in NA, I am mostly a protoss......

but in REAL LIFE.......

I am *THE ZERG!*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14884298*
> They're srsly *****ing about the ghost play mvp showcased vs July, but they don't feel it's as broken as pvt.


I don't see why, MVP is obviously just better than July.


----------



## yks

whoa.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14887511*
> whoa.


Are you watching GSL?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14887534*
> Are you watching GSL?


yeah


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14887541*
> yeah


Wow


----------



## DoomDash

What are we woahing about?


----------



## gonX

Something epic in GSL just happened, is my guess.


----------



## DoomDash

I assumed as much, but some one spill the beans in spoiler tags.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14888452*
> I assumed as much, but some one spill the beans in spoiler tags.


We were just "wowing" to MVP's flawless play >_>


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



MVP 4 - 1 Top


----------



## DoomDash

As I said before, MVP is on a whole nother level right now.


----------



## Sainesk

July vs Boxer was sweet...


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


We were just "wowing" to MVP's flawless play >_>

MVP 4 - 1 Top


 yup yet anouther one sided final


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


yup yet anouther one sided final


Game 1 was spectacular though was the one of the only TvT ive ever seen that i wasnt bored out of my mind


----------



## Sainesk

um, why did marineking play as protoss in all star match 4? is that not an important match? (so, for fun) or is he considering switching races or something?


----------



## yks

for fun


----------



## BigFan

^^Yep, they were for fun. Too bad Boxer and July stuck to playing their original races







I was hoping to see Boxer play Z and maybe P or T for July


----------



## CravinR1

I posted our strat earlier in this thread

But in a few weeks we've went from Gold to Plat to diamond, until tonight:


















[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AHPpODcQY[/ame]


----------



## Sangers_low

^^ Some tips. First, building gas at 9 supply with mineral boosters can get u equal number of lings and much faster speed time. Helps a lot against opponent 10poolers. Second, U shouldn't lose so much lings if u do 10 pool. Ur main goal should be scout ur opponent and do eco damage if possible, but not lose ur lings. Third, 2 gateway stalker into 4 gate stalker is better because u can push when the protoss has 3 stalkers, which is earlier than ur timing. Or u can push with 7 stalkers as well. Fourth, stalker ling is heavily countered by 2Z, or 1T 1Z. If u get that MU, try something a bit different. No build works all the time in every MU, maybe except Marineling, but u need to adjust timing for that one as well.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14907663*
> ^^ Some tips. First, building gas at 9 supply with mineral boosters can get u equal number of lings and much faster speed time. Helps a lot against opponent 10poolers. Second, U shouldn't lose so much lings if u do 10 pool. Ur main goal should be scout ur opponent and do eco damage if possible, but not lose ur lings. Third, 2 gateway stalker into 4 gate stalker is better because u can push when the protoss has 3 stalkers, which is earlier than ur timing. Or u can push with 7 stalkers as well. Fourth, stalker ling is heavily countered by 2Z, or 1T 1Z. If u get that MU, try something a bit different. No build works all the time in every MU, maybe except Marineling, but u need to adjust timing for that one as well.


So whats the build for the 4 gate stalkers that are earlier than 5.5 min?

In 2.5 weeks (when the video was uploaded) we went from Plat to diamond to masters (we were only plat for 2 days before being bumped to to diamond)


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14907689*
> So whats the build for the 4 gate stalkers that are earlier than 5.5 min?
> 
> In 2.5 weeks (when the video was uploaded) we went from Plat to diamond to masters (we were only plat for 2 days before being bumped to to diamond)


4 gate can hit BEFORE 6 minutes. The build I was talking about skips zealot, builds a 2nd gateway at 20 supply, 2 stalkers, and 2 additional gateways at 30 supply.

About the master thing, I know the high level 2v2 scene well. Not to sound saucy, but in team games, it's the win ratio that determines skill level, not league. Pretty easy to hit masters with just double 6 pool. Good 2v2er should have 2:1 ratio, exceptional one has 3:1. Anything major over that means they're top 5-10 in region level, hacking, or they tanked their MMR to get free wins in lower leagues.

Stalker ling is a good tactic that's frequently used, but isn't usually favoured over TZ because it's inferior.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14907793*
> 4 gate can hit BEFORE 6 minutes. The build I was talking about skips zealot, builds a 2nd gateway at 20 supply, 2 stalkers, and 2 additional gateways at 30 supply.
> 
> About the master thing, I know the high level 2v2 scene well. Not to sound saucy, but in team games, it's the win ratio that determines skill level, not league. Pretty easy to hit masters with just double 6 pool. Good 2v2er should have 2:1 ratio, exceptional one has 3:1. Anything major over that means they're top 5-10 in region level, hacking, or they tanked their MMR to get free wins in lower leagues.
> 
> Stalker ling is a good tactic that's frequently used, but isn't usually favoured over TZ because it's inferior.


Me and JustTheMan have been playing since I was bronze 1v1, and we were silver 2v2 (several months). During that time we've both progressed and learned and improved. So alot of the wins/losses were in silver league.

When we hit at 5 and a half minutes he has 5 stalkers, I try to feed him mins to help him get extra gates/stalks asap


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14907821*
> Me and JustTheMan have been playing since I was bronze 1v1, and we were silver 2v2 (several months). During that time we've both progressed and learned and improved. So alot of the wins/losses were in silver league.
> 
> When we hit at 5 and a half minutes he has 5 stalkers, I try to feed him mins to help him get extra gates/stalks asap


When u do 10p, u should not have leftover minerals. 10 drones optimally saturate 1 hatchery worth of zergling production. With the 2 gate -> 4 gate, u can hit at 6 min with 7 stalkers and 2 zealots, and move forward with 3 stalkers or 2 stalkers and 2 zealots.


----------



## Sangers_low

Yeah, i dunno why i'm keep posting, but my point is:1. There could be improvements 2. Stalker ling isn't the best rush build these days. 3. Ur 10p can be improved


----------



## eosgreen

i have been getting a msg sometimes telling me that the computer is slowing down the game

my understanding is thats a hardware issue which is impossible but could it be internet? i am on wireless


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;14907442*
> I posted our strat earlier in this thread
> 
> But in a few weeks we've went from Gold to Plat to diamond, until tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AHPpODcQY


the best "cheese" free masters 2v2 strat is the korean 4 gate aka 5 gate just zels and overlord spotting with speedlings

basically the reason terran and toss have to wall off is because no race can actually beat zerglings for the first 6mins and the build makes it so you have to leave your wall while speedlings bust it down and zels can warp in base

you do 1 gas for 50 gas pull off gas chrono out warpgate have 2 overlords at a clif for each enemy base and whatever base you decide to attack the overlord spots for a 5 zel warp in which can easily be afforded off just mineral mining while the zerg has expanded and jsut mined minerals and 100 gas for speed and just keeps sending waves of lings

this strat will get ANYONE masters in 2v2. broken bracket lol


----------



## Kentan900

Anyone wanna play some StarCraft II later? I could use some new mates


----------



## BigFan

Anyone here watch ESV TV?
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ESV%20TV
They do a lot of tourneys and the Korean weekly ones are great. Just watched a TvsZ base trade, so close as well. All that was left was a pool and 1 rax+2 supply depots with like 40hp or so. The Zerg only had about 5 mutas left and the Terran had like 7 tanks and ~30 marines with 3 medivacs however for some reason he decided to leave his cc undefended, etc... and he sniped the pool just as the Zerg got his 2 mutas near the last 40hp supply depot. Crazy game


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14916120*
> Anyone here watch ESV TV?
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ESV%20TV
> They do a lot of tourneys and the Korean weekly ones are great. Just watched a TvsZ base trade, so close as well. All that was left was a pool and 1 rax+2 supply depots with like 40hp or so. The Zerg only had about 5 mutas left and the Terran had like 7 tanks and ~30 marines with 3 medivacs however for some reason he decided to leave his cc undefended, etc... and he sniped the pool just as the Zerg got his 2 mutas near the last 40hp supply depot. Crazy game


Formerly iCCup TV. Yup, the Korean Weeklys are amazing.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14916491*
> Formerly iCCup TV. Yup, the Korean Weeklys are amazing.


You are indeed correct. Love the casting and the games are great!


----------



## DoomDash

BigFan I will allow you to pass me in this thread now.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14916612*
> BigFan I will allow you to pass me in this thread now.


rofl, of course. I'm going to start getting really busy within the next couple of days so I expect my post count to wane, thinking an inverse exponential curve









BTW:
Your post count = 3,436
Mine = 2,241
GL to me passing that within a year XD


----------



## HometownHero

Anyone watch TLO v Destiny series this weekend during SCi? Love TLO's crazy builds but it was hard to watch him slam his head against a brick wall while playing Socke with that same reaper build 3 games in a row...


----------



## QuadDamage

I was playing 3v3's last night and hit the other team with the brofestor hit squad took out 2 nexus a and it was GG for them. Then my other game I got matched up with some guy who built 16 supply depo's to start! *** is that.

I won a 1v1 finally vs a higher level plat then me. I think I might just switch to toss.


----------



## Yukss

TLO is such a great gamer, i really miss him playing random, terran is his raze so far

I'm a silver 1v1 player, add me if you want, i play protos and i have over 100 victories sO far

[email protected]


----------



## ackneal

Anyone here familiar with getting a stream setup on 1080P smooth? For some reason it's choppy as hell on my setup...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ackneal;14927137*
> Anyone here familiar with getting a stream setup on 1080P smooth? For some reason it's choppy as hell on my setup...


Check out the OP for a list of those who stream. I would contact them for that info because they would know how to get a smooth 1080p stream


----------



## Sangers_low

oGsMC is streaming in TL under the name oGsSK. We could possibly see Nada as well


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14927350*
> oGsMC is streaming in TL under the name oGsSK. We could possibly see Nada as well


Interesting, do recall something about SC2con or whatever organization he's a part of disliking streaming. That or maybe it was someone else


----------



## Razultull

Hey guys, RoberT and I played a 4v4 random last night with vileSpanishiwa.



















They were quad zerg and they quad 6 pooled. Rob valiantly bunkered in his mineral line and held out for quite a long while before succumbing to an obscene amount of lings. I threw dts and Phoenixes at them to no avail. BUT I SCORED HIGHER THAN HIM.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14928136*
> Hey guys, RoberT and I played a 4v4 random last night with vileSpanishiwa.
> -snipe-
> They were quad zerg and they quad 6 pooled. Rob valiantly bunkered in his mineral line and held out for quite a long while before succumbing to an obscene amount of lings. I threw dts and Phoenixes at them to no avail. *BUT I SCORED HIGHER THAN HIM*.


hehe, you can tell someone's excited


----------



## DoomDash

I scored higher than Artosis when I beat him.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I scored higher than Artosis when I beat him.


Haha wow, do you have a replay?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14930191*
> Haha wow, do you have a replay?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A[/ame]


----------



## CravinR1

ridiculous how good rines/rauders are


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A


Without checking, did he make any legendary Artosis pylons?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Without checking, did he make any legendary Artosis pylons?










no typical marine/rauder owned protoss

Nothing surprising there


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

I need someone to practice & play with. I'm Funkdrspot on Bnet too. I was stuck to this game at launch but I quit for almost a year and came back. I've been sticking mainly to custom games but i decided to try my luck at some 2v2 and got WAXED. I went 0 - 4.

I used to be a 1v1 gold player and a plat 2v2/3v3/4v4 player but I was getting creamed by bronze guys last night. Anyone wanna help me out?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


no typical marine/rauder owned protoss

Nothing surprising there


He probably could have held it if he didn't hit g 3 times.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


He probably could have held it if he didn't hit g 3 times.


I don't play Toss, so what does G do?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I don't play Toss, so what does G do?


Guardian sheild.


----------



## rhed5

Back from vacation. Doom get on sometime, we should play


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Back from vacation. Doom get on sometime, we should play


umm, sorry to say this but Doom has QUIT SCII!!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Back from vacation. Doom get on sometime, we should play


With d3, skyrim, and rage around the corner I've decided to quit scii since I don't like not giving it the time it deserves. :[. I played 4 games in the last month. Lovved playing with u though.


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rhed5*


Back from vacation. Doom get on sometime, we should play


where you go brah?


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14928136*
> Hey guys, RoberT and I played a 4v4 random last night with vileSpanishiwa.
> 
> They were quad zerg and they quad 6 pooled. Rob valiantly bunkered in his mineral line and held out for quite a long while before succumbing to an obscene amount of lings. I threw dts and Phoenixes at them to no avail. BUT I SCORED HIGHER THAN HIM.


It was fun to play against him, but it sucks that they quad 6 pooled us....

I guess I did learn that my bunker placement wasn't optimal at least.


----------



## rhed5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14933626*
> where you go brah?


seoul; stopped by the gsl qualifiers while i was there to see what it was like, even no name koreans who i've never seen are too damn good.

too bad about u quitting sc2 doom







, but i'll see you in d3.


----------



## DoomDash

Yep I'm sure we will be playing some d3 together, anthony too.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14935327*
> Yep I'm sure we will be playing some d3 together, anthony too.


heck yeah, i'm going monk too.


----------



## DoomDash

Barb for life.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#kPgfbU!bYa!aaaZba


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14935973*
> Barb for life.
> 
> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#kPgfbU!bYa!aaaZba


Agree. Tried the necromancer, sorcerer, etc... in DII but kept always going back to Barb


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14937675*
> Agree. Tried the necromancer, sorcerer, etc... in DII but kept always going back to Barb


I was always a sucker for Zons in D2, was playing it tonight with my brother that game still rocks


----------



## DoomDash

oc.net scii d3 club.


----------



## yks

WITH OUR POWERS COMBINED, we are captain planet!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14938646*
> WITH OUR POWERS COMBINED, we are captain planet!


hehe, everyone should go for a different character then we'll have a whole party of them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14937825*
> Overclock.net scii d3 club.


SURE!!!!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14937749*
> I was always a sucker for Zons in D2, was playing it tonight with my brother that game still rocks


Amazons you mean? Sorry, dunno what Zons is referring to


----------



## nitric0

Anyone want to 2v2? Plat/Diamond+ NA server


----------



## murderbymodem

http://peepmode.com/

best 1v1 obs maps ever. I just played one of them for the first time, and I plan to use it from now on.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitric0;14939882*
> Anyone want to 2v2? Plat/Diamond+ NA server


Sure add me.

I'm Gold 1v1

But mainly plat 2v2 (have a masters 2v2 and a diamond)


----------



## Fortunex

So I got cannon rushed behind the mineral line again, I killed the probe, killed the pylon, a second probe comes by right before the last hit finishes off the pylon, puts a cannon down and another pylon, and there's no way I can kill the pylon in time without pulling 10+ drones (and even then it'll probably still go up), and then zealots show up at the same time. Tired of this cheese. =/


----------



## Dr216

So? pull 10+ drones pulling 10 drones cost you roughly 33 minerals per min per worker, assuming you kill 2 pylons and a cannon + his 2 probes you cost him 450min chances are you will only be pulling them for 20 seconds or less. Its better to pull too many and overkill than to loose because you were too stingy.

Edit: reason my maths+ logic sucked...its 102 minerals per patch per min with 3 workers on a patch for some reason I didn't divide through by 3


----------



## Fortunex

The zealots hit the same time he came back to put the cannon down. Guess I just need to blind open early pool and hope it's put to use.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14944089*
> The zealots hit the same time he came back to put the cannon down. Guess I just need to blind open early pool and hope it's put to use.


It cant be that early if he is cannon rushing you and has a gateway + zealot you should most definitely be past say a 14 pool just go for a safe speedling expand, 13/14 gas pool 4 early lings for map control and then expand. Standard as Standard can be.


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14944089*
> The zealots hit the same time he came back to put the cannon down. Guess I just need to blind open early pool and hope it's put to use.


Yeah against protoss is always a good idea to go pool first.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

No one wants to practice w me? I guess I'd better stop pissing people off on here


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14948314*
> Yeah against protoss is always a good idea to go pool first.


tbh the only map where you can safely hatch first on in the ladder map pool is shipyard, everything else you should go pool first unless your feeling greedy.

If you loose to early pressure through being greedy then you deserve to loose, Hatch/nexus/CC first on anything but the biggest map is as much of a risky cheesey way to play as doing an agressive all in, its just an econ cheese rather than agressive cheese if it gets scouted you should and will take significant damage, zerg less than any other race but still.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Blizz just put neural parasite is back to targeting massive, but reduced the range from 9 to 7. That's actually even worse. Now instead of just being unable to NP massive, you won't be able to NP anything. Colossus deathball is even stronger. You almost have to get your infestors inside the protoss ball to grab anything now, including immortals and void rays, and that's hardly worth the risk. Colossus is totally unreachable. I don't see how NP is worth the research cost anymore, certainly not in PvZ. This puts us back in the bad old days when every PvZ featured colossus and Z had to buy corruptors to fight the deathball.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584


----------



## yks

Now that's the typical Lucas Lamer I've come to know.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Now that's the typical Lucas Lamer I've come to know.


This. Lol.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Now that's the typical Lucas Lamer I've come to know.


Destiny said exactly the same thing today as what I wrote. He's only a Grandmaster zerg, so what does he know? Why don't you get on his chat and enlighten him. Share your insight with him. Open his mind. Tell him how stupid he is and how smart you are. Seriously, I want you to do this. It would make my day.


----------



## DoomDash

Same range as a Thor now, how is that bad? You mean now you have to have units to support them instead of just having brofestors?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14950399*
> Same range as a Thor now, how is that bad? You mean now you have to have units to support them instead of just having brofestors?


Gotta agree with this. Mass mech against Zerg will still be risky since you can NP massive and you can NP colossi, though not as effectively as before. I think the range decrease over removing the ability to NP massive is a better idea imo









@Lucas From what I've heard, Destiny got to GM just by massing infestors every game XD


----------



## yks

Adds more micro to the Colossus when you think about it.

The colossus will have to stutter step the 2 range to avoid NP or else they'll only get 1 volley off before getting NP'd and the protoss loses.

It's like Stalker microing the 1 range distance against Marines!

woooooooooo


----------



## DoomDash

Yep, more micro isn't a bad thing, especially when its for both sides.


----------



## iambald

I love Zerg macro. Everyone that can't macro should play zerg- supply blocked? 3 overlords followed by 20 roaches a few seconds later! seriously, there's almost no punishment for being supply blocked


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iambald*


I love Zerg macro. Everyone that can't macro should play zerg- supply blocked? 3 overlords followed by 20 roaches a few seconds later! seriously, there's almost no punishment for being supply blocked










There is actually a huge punishment for being supply blocked, especially if it's right as larvae pops, because your hatcheries aren't making any more larvae while they're sitting on 4+, so you've lost units/workers that you could have made.

Zerg's macro is the hardest of the three races.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


There is actually a huge punishment for being supply blocked, especially if it's right as larvae pops, because your hatcheries aren't making any more larvae while they're sitting on 4+, so you've lost units/workers that you could have made.

Zerg's macro/base management is the hardest of the three races.


meh, I have to agree with him ^^ Macroing as Zerg is pretty easy. The difficult part is knowing when to make units or to drone but that comes with experience and even then, you can probably make 1/3 units, 2/3 drones to stay on the safe side if you are that worried. That and the ability to remax during the battle using one control groups and not having to worry about queuing is great. As it stands, if you don't macro during a battle as T/P, then once the battle is over, you have no defense in your base if he decides to counter. Painful losing the game that way imo


----------



## Fortunex

I find it the most difficult, that's why I chose Zerg as my main race. If you make 1/3 units 2/3 drones then you're going to have a weaker economy and a weaker army than the other guy. And the macroing during fights goes for anybody, you have to keep on top of your macro to win. And about the one control group thing, you can queue up all your production facilities to one hotkey and scroll through them with tab just like units.

Terran's macro is ridiculously easy, just queue up units, drop mules, make more production facilities and keep an SCV building supply depots all game.

Toss's is harder than Terran's because you have to actually look at your base to make gateway units, and keep on top of your chronos, but it's still really easy imo.

Zerg has to manage larvae on top of minerals and gas, and decide between workers and units.

Meh, maybe some people just naturally find Zerg easy, I found them the most difficult. I was gold Protoss after 2 weeks of playing, it took a month and a half to get to gold after I switched to Zerg.


----------



## iambald

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


There is actually a huge punishment for being supply blocked, especially if it's right as larvae pops, because your hatcheries aren't making any more larvae while they're sitting on 4+, so you've lost units/workers that you could have made.

Zerg's macro is the hardest of the three races.


If you keep injecting you keep getting more larva until 19. You can easily make up for being supply blocked by producing a ton of units at once, while Terran and Protoss are limited by the number of production facilities they have.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


There is actually a huge punishment for being supply blocked, especially if it's right as larvae pops, because your hatcheries aren't making any more larvae while they're sitting on 4+, so you've lost units/workers that you could have made.

Zerg's macro is the hardest of the three races.



I have to disagree with you on that one. Internalizing injects isn't really difficult, and getting supply blocked punishes everyone. It's not really hard to 'macro' with zerg. Select all larva, spam a unit and cross your fingers.

Terran macro is much harder to manage, imo. Protoss is easy pz tho


----------



## Fortunex

But you aren't getting the natural regeneration of larvae, which means you've lost units/workers that could have been made. Overlords also take away from the unit and worker production, so not only do you have less larvae if you get supply blocked, but you have to use some of the larvae you have to get un-supply blocked. There is a MASSIVE, MASSIVE difference in the games I play when I forget to make an overlord or two between injects, and ones where my unit and overlord production is smooth.

And it really isn't difficult to just keep an SCV making production facilities, and another one or two making supply depots, or for Toss, just have a pylon or two constantly be warping in, and throw down a couple more gateways/stargates/robos whenever you expand.

By macro, I don't mean just making units, I mean base and larvae management, resource management, etc. If you make too many drones, your army is going to be weak. If you make too many units, your economy is going to be weak. If your drone lines get harassed, not only does your economy suffer, but replacing those workers directly translates to lost units on a 1:1 ratio except for zerglings.


----------



## DoomDash

But you can make overlords even less effortlessly. You don't even need any base management to build an overlord.


----------



## Sainesk

I got called a noob today (I am but that's not the point







) by my teammate (a bronze 1v1) in a 4v4 because he didn't like my build...

(even though we won...)


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;14952882*
> But you can make overlords even less effortlessly. You don't even need any base management to build an overlord.


Did you read my post?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14952161*
> I find it the most difficult, that's why I chose Zerg as my main race. If you make 1/3 units 2/3 drones then you're going to have a weaker economy and a weaker army than the other guy. And the macroing during fights goes for anybody, you have to keep on top of your macro to win. And about the one control group thing, you can queue up all your production facilities to one hotkey and scroll through them with tab just like units.
> *I disagree. Even if you went 2/3 drones, there is no way you can be behind your opponent considering you'll be getting 2 workers by the time he gets 1(approximately).*
> 
> Terran's macro is ridiculously easy, just queue up units, drop mules, make more production facilities and keep an SCV building supply depots all game.
> *Issue is, you can't queue up units if you don't have the resources. I'm guessing you've watched pro games before. If I forget to macro during a battle as Zerg, I just quickly make units and I can usually have enough to defend a counter if they come. As Terran, I'm essentially screwed if my opponent counters and I forgot to make units because I can't make as many. That and base management as Terran can be annoying in comparison to Zerg.*
> 
> Toss's is harder than Terran's because you have to actually look at your base to make gateway units, and keep on top of your chronos, but it's still really easy imo.
> *I'm neutral about Toss. Most players plant a pylon outside their opponent's base and wrap in then as they engage so you don't need to look far. That and you can use chrono on the minimap so if you know your structure placement, you can easily spam it as need. Since you don't need to queue up units as P, I would say its easier than T. In terms of macro difficulty, I believe T > P > Z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Zerg has to manage larvae on top of minerals and gas, and decide between workers and units.
> 
> Meh, maybe some people just naturally find Zerg easy, I found them the most difficult. I was gold Protoss after 2 weeks of playing, it took a month and a half to get to gold after I switched to Zerg.


Maybe, I dunno. I picked up Zerg back in S1 and would 15 exp 14 pool every game even on Steppes(not a great idea







). Then I would make like 3 drones and keep making units or whatever. Lost a game due to that then I realized my mistake after a while







and started making drones as much as possible saturating my exp before making units(if possible).


----------



## Fortunex

I mean behind relatively, seeing as Zerg needs a lot better economy to break even with T or P.

If you don't have the resources you need to keep your production facilities building, then you shouldn't have that many buildings or you should expand/saturate your bases better.

I think if I devoted the same amount of time to Terran or Toss as I have to Zerg, I'd be in diamond right now instead of high plat. But some people just find different things easier or more difficult.


----------



## BountyHead

Woot finally got the Hot pickup achieve lol!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14955218*
> I mean behind relatively, seeing as Zerg needs a lot better economy to break even with T or P.
> 
> If you don't have the resources you need to keep your production facilities building, then you shouldn't have that many buildings or you should expand/saturate your bases better.
> 
> I think if I devoted the same amount of time to Terran or Toss as I have to Zerg, I'd be in diamond right now instead of high plat. But some people just find different things easier or more difficult.


I doubt that, esp not with Terran, as Terran falls off in Diamond HARD. That is probably the point where Terran becomes the most difficult to understand. My friend played high Diamond Z for the 1st two seasons, and played more T the end of season 2, and all of Season 3, and he did manage to get to Diamond but he quickly fell back into Plat. He loses to people he would normally crush easily with Z, and he's played them about the same now.

Obviously its a case by case basis but Zerg has it really easy as far as base management and economy go. I always found Zerg to be a cinch to play personally. Just have good macro and reactions and you can easily get masters.

That's just my opinion. I think my macro is much better than my micro, so maybe that's why I feel Zerg is easier for me as Terran is more micro intensive.


----------



## Dr216

Macro as Z comes more naturally to me than other races. You can expand by feel you know when you need to like you know you need to change gear in a car, if you have more lavea than you can spend you need more workers if you have more money than you have lavea then you need to macro hatch etc. Z macro just flows.

sim city is easiest and hardest for me as Z dependant on the map you have so few building to work with using them to the best effect can be very tricky. Also you end up wanting building in different places later than you did earlier. Not that unusual for me to end up with extra evo chambers just to stop BFH running round my mineral lines or whatever. where T and P can use depo's and pylons to the same effect for "free"


----------



## BigFan

Interesting thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=266019

MKP to MLG Orlando:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=266074
Reddit members raised 3.5k over 4 hours to send him.


----------



## Twistacles

*** lol i did a 3v3 against LiquidRet and we we're like nah hes not the real one
we lose
check
grandmaster 180-80

What are the odds


----------



## l337sft

I think toss macro is the hardest, its the only race that require you to go somewhere ( to a pylon) to make units. Which makes micro and macro at the same time a lot more difficult, Terran or zerg can look at a battle and make units. Without ever having to move your screen off your units at all

Macro just calls for a number and a Hotkey to be pressed, that's it. But toss needs to go to another location and warp in


----------



## Fortunex

Macro isn't just making units.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;14965779*
> I think toss macro is the hardest, its the only race that require you to go somewhere ( to a pylon) to make units. Which makes micro and macro at the same time a lot more difficult, Terran or zerg can look at a battle and make units. Without ever having to move your screen off your units at all
> 
> Macro just calls for a number and a Hotkey to be pressed, that's it. But toss needs to go to another location and warp in


Yeah but proxy pylon means that re-enforcing your army can be very fast as well as all your warpgate units come at once, rather then in a weaker stream.

Economy-wise, Zerg probably has the hardest to get going.
Units-wise, Terran can be very fragile if they go mech and lose their first army. Or if they go bio and lose their medivacs etc etc. Each race has their own quirks.

IMO Zerg army macro is the best, fast re-maxing is amazingly powerful late game.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;14966370*
> IMO Zerg army macro is the best, fast re-maxing is amazingly powerful late game.


Toss remax is no slower assuming you build an excess of warpgates, which you should at 200/200 and the toss 200 army is far stronger than a 200 Z army, T has slowest remax but has the advantage of being able to pretty much scrap all workers at the end and relly only on mules for minerals giving them the biggest max army.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft;14965779*
> I think toss macro is the hardest, its the only race that require you to go somewhere ( to a pylon) to make units. Which makes micro and macro at the same time a lot more difficult, Terran or zerg can look at a battle and make units. Without ever having to move your screen off your units at all
> 
> Macro just calls for a number and a Hotkey to be pressed, that's it. But toss needs to go to another location and warp in


All the races have subtle differences in macro styles that have different types of difficulty. All races need to know when to expand and when to stop attacking, but differences exist. Protoss, knowing the timing on your gates and having to look somewhere to warp in and when and where to use chrono boost to give you an edge, Zerg, when to build drones and when to build units (a complicated thought process) and Terran, having the right amount of buildings so that your money doesn't stockpile yet your buildings are being used 100% of the time.

Each is difficult for different reasons. I find it hard to get into a zerg mindset- I want to be building workers constantly and units to match, not making batches of workers interspersed by batches of defending units because thats what you do as zerg- if your opponent leaves you alone, build sooooo many drones, and then ***pwn him with hive tech. If he harasses, drone between waves, units otherwise. I'm used to terran "at x time on two bases in x style of play, I can afford 3 tech rax 2 reac rax, reactored starport and upgrades". I wouldn't dream of cutting units at any point in the game, unless I was trying to tech really fast.


----------



## Slow*Jim

Checking in here, been playing SC since the days of dialup. I play mostly 4v4, just can't get enough of the long drawn out battles.

Can anyone tell me why my old system ([email protected] w/GTX460) outperformed my new system at 1080p High and Ultra settings? I upgraded EVERYTHING (system in sig) and I still get dips down to 19fps in big battles. And forget the Extreme settings.


----------



## CravinR1

dips = internet lag?


----------



## Slow*Jim

I guess. I have a pretty good connection. I guess I was just expecting more of a noticeable increase upgrading a 4 year old processor. It's not even playable on Ultra


----------



## Dr216

what temps are you getting? gpu and cpu seems wrong that you should be dropping that low. sounds to me like your fan profile might be wrong and your getting throttleing or something.


----------



## DarkMasterMX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slow*Jim*


Checking in here, been playing SC since the days of dialup. I play mostly 4v4, just can't get enough of the long drawn out battles.

Can anyone tell me why my old system ([email protected] w/GTX460) outperformed my new system at 1080p High and Ultra settings? I upgraded EVERYTHING (system in sig) and I still get dips down to 19fps in big battles. And forget the Extreme settings.



With your system you shouldn't have any problems... My i7 920 + 5870 combo ran SC2 on ultra at 2560x1600 resolution on my 30". I think either you got to much stuff running or there's an underlying problem there.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *l337sft*


I think toss macro is the hardest, its the only race that require you to go somewhere ( to a pylon) to make units. Which makes micro and macro at the same time a lot more difficult, Terran or zerg can look at a battle and make units. Without ever having to move your screen off your units at all

Macro just calls for a number and a Hotkey to be pressed, that's it. But toss needs to go to another location and warp in


I disagree for one reason, you forget to macro, then you can wrap in your units and chrono the gates to wrap in more in less time. You forget to macro as Z/T, then you have to wait for your units to be produced/hatch which means that your opponent has a timing window. Either way, they are all pretty difficult, like it that way









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slow*Jim*


Checking in here, been playing SC since the days of dialup. I play mostly 4v4, just can't get enough of the long drawn out battles.

Can anyone tell me why my old system ([email protected] w/GTX460) outperformed my new system at 1080p High and Ultra settings? I upgraded EVERYTHING (system in sig) and I still get dips down to 19fps in big battles. And forget the Extreme settings.


hmm, you should be fine. My sig rig does well however I lower the settings to a mix of med/high so that I don't get as much lag when there are large battles.

Even though I haven't played in over 2 weeks, I'm starting to get an itch for a game or two XD I might go back to random though but getting the feeling that I'll get demoted if I do so, hehe


----------



## HarrisLam

Jim im sure some of you settings for your rig are messed up, logically not possible to see negative improvement there (though i gotta say, E8400 should play the game fairly well, even on very high)

ill usually be up for some 4v4's if im in the channel, hit me up when you see me if you interested!


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14972095*
> Even though I haven't played in over 2 weeks, I'm starting to get an itch for a game or two XD I might go back to random though but getting the feeling that I'll get demoted if I do so, hehe


Do it go back to random! I started going random again last week so much fun lol

Also i just played a tvt BORING! was 42 minutes long then the guy lags out on me...


----------



## Slow*Jim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;14973368*
> Jim im sure some of you settings for your rig are messed up, logically not possible to see negative improvement there (though i gotta say, E8400 should play the game fairly well, even on very high)
> 
> ill usually be up for some 4v4's if im in the channel, hit me up when you see me if you interested!


Will do! My system runs Deus Ex: HR absolutely flawlessly, so I don't know what the problem is. CPU temps when I exit the SC2 seem to be around 50c and GPU around 65c (using Afterburner w/custom fan profile). GPU usage in all games seems to be pegged around 99% at all times.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14975101*
> Do it go back to random! I started going random again last week so much fun lol
> 
> Also i just played a tvt BORING! was 42 minutes long then the guy lags out on me...


lol, true true. I miss my sentries, phoenixes, roaches, mutas and all the other units/strats possible. I think I'll go back









Well, decided to give SCII another try with my new mouse:

Not sure if I was successful or not. My opponent looked like he's someone who got the game recently(try several weeks). Given, I was using a new mouse so I had a crutch as well


----------



## yks

holy. i never thought to do what SeleCT just did on Antiga. that was pretty coolSICK.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;14985617*
> holy. i never thought to do what SeleCT just did on Antiga. that was pretty coolSICK.


Hmm... so does this mean Korean biology >> Korean training? >_>

Still, so sad to see all the code s toss falling







MC and Alicia used to be considered top 3 protoss once :/


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;14986203*
> Hmm... so does this mean Korean biology >> Korean training? >_>
> 
> Still, so sad to see all the code s toss falling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MC and Alicia used to be considered top 3 protoss once :/


depressing thing is they still are toss is in a dark dark place right now.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;14987606*
> depressing thing is they still are toss is in a dark dark place right now.


GSL code s group a and b is on later. Have a bad feeling Puzzle's gonna be an another toss roadkill







I mean he's very good, probably the best, but against Ryung, Bomber and MarineKing?


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull;14928136*
> Hey guys, RoberT and I played a 4v4 random last night with vileSpanishiwa.
> 
> They were quad zerg and they quad 6 pooled. Rob valiantly bunkered in his mineral line and held out for quite a long while before succumbing to an obscene amount of lings. I threw dts and Phoenixes at them to no avail. BUT I SCORED HIGHER THAN HIM.


So this weekend Razultull and I played more 4s and ran into another pro gamer... this time it was LiquidSheth playing as terran making mass marines...lol

I guess we will have to keep playing 4's this is getting fun.


----------



## Genome852

If any protoss or zerg players want to play some practice 1v1 games (I'm terran), add me on B.net - Genome.856.

My TvP is really bad right now. I don't 1/1/1 all-in though.


----------



## DoomDash

Aww another Master Terran ( From Chicago I might add ), and after I quit. I just looked at my bonus pool, near 500 lol.

I will lurk this thread to see whats going on in the community since I am becoming out of the loop.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Anyone here play phantom mode? It's such an addictive custom mode. I love trollin!


----------



## poroboszcz

I just came back from holidays, but I kept checking this thread on my mobile. When I saw initial NP nerf I thought: *** they made it useless, they should decrease the range instead. And they did just that.









Anyway, my new Filco Majestouch 2 has been waiting for me in the mail! It's time to see how rusty I got after two weeks of no playing.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I just came back from holidays, but I kept checking this thread on my mobile. When I saw initial NP nerf I thought: *** they made it useless, they should decrease the range instead. And they did just that.









Anyway, my new Filco Majestouch 2 has been waiting for me in the mail! It's time to see how rusty I got after two weeks of no playing.


You should get some custom SC2 keycaps for your Filco


----------



## rhed5

ran in to fanatctt1 in 2's, had fun with blueflame!


----------



## ronnin426850

Just throwing this here...


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Just throwing this here...



















rofl









I felt so sad when I discovered i'm the guy on the right after finding some dude with all SCII achievements...


----------



## BountyHead

I got yelled at for playing random, I assume because it made the toss player have to scout? He zealot rushed me . I took out his expo and grabbed a 3rd fair trade right?


----------



## ntherblast

Never playing team matches again







I mostly play 2v2 and it is the same thing over and over every again my ally never masses has half the army size/composition I do the last straw was when my ally decided to make 4 command centers 6mins in. We still won the game cause I did all the work which annoys me


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14993501*
> I got yelled at for playing random, I assume because it made the toss player have to scout? He zealot rushed me . I took out his expo and grabbed a 3rd fair trade right?


haha, I'm thinking that if I go back to random, I might mention my race to start but again maybe I won't








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14993513*
> Never playing team matches again I mostly play 2v2 and it is the same thing over and over every again my ally never masses has half the army size/composition I do the last straw was when my ally decided to make 4 command centers 6mins in. We still won the game cause I did all the work which annoys me


Makes it much more epic if you win then


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14993815*
> haha, I'm thinking that if I go back to random, I might mention my race to start but again maybe I won't


It doesn't make sense to say what race you are. You are taking the "harder" route having to know all the M/U and be able to macro with all 3 races. It should be on your opponent to scout.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;14994690*
> It doesn't make sense to say what race you are. You are taking the "harder" route having to know all the M/U and be able to macro with all 3 races. It should be on your opponent to scout.


hmm, thing is I don't want my opponent to change his entire strat if he doesn't know my race. Having said that, I do agree with what you wrote. I do think that you should scout early if you plan to do a certain BO/strat. Personally, I almost always scout around the time I lay down the depot/pylon/OL. I usually find my opponent as my rax/gate/pool/exp is building


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;14995912*
> hmm, thing is I don't want my opponent to change his entire strat if he doesn't know my race. Having said that, I do agree with what you wrote. I do think that you should scout early if you plan to do a certain BO/strat. Personally, I almost always scout around the time I lay down the depot/pylon/OL. I usually find my opponent as my rax/gate/pool/exp is building


Exactly, I will admit the amount of cheese at the silver/gold level that i play make playing any M/U kinda a crap shoot. I regularly play gold level players and they are usually less fun and more all in cheesy than most of the silver players i get matched up against.

And if you think about it you always have to change your strat because you dont know what your gonna be.


----------



## Genome852

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;14993513*
> Never playing team matches again I mostly play 2v2 and it is the same thing over and over every again my ally never masses has half the army size/composition I do the last straw was when my ally decided to make 4 command centers 6mins in. We still won the game cause I did all the work which annoys me


That's why you find friends to play with







I know exactly how you feel.


----------



## Kentan900

Anyone wanna play some StarCraft II? Im in the gold league


----------



## Lucas Lamer

The neural parasite range nerf went live today. I was just now messing around with it. 7 range. It's LOL short. It's literally funny to look at. I'll take a screenshot later. Just one glance will tell you it has exactly 0% chance of working against a big protoss ball. I doubt it will even work against terran mech. I would have preferred having it be unable to target massive and still have 9 range. With 7 range it's essentially useless. I suppose you could drop manner neurals on a beaten opponent.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;15004111*
> The neural parasite range nerf went live today. I was just now messing around with it. 7 range. It's LOL short. It's literally funny to look at. I'll take a screenshot later. Just one glance will tell you it has exactly 0% chance of working against a big protoss ball. I doubt it will even work against terran mech. I would have preferred having it be unable to target massive and still have 9 range. With 7 range it's essentially useless. I suppose you could drop manner neurals on a beaten opponent.


There were 2 reasons that I see for the reduced range of NP.
1. The infestor was too good of a unit and it's main purpose is to support. I blame Destiny for this. Massing infestors, mass FG, mass NP, mass ITs, etc.... Basically, Blizzard doesn't want the infestor to be massed and then mostly used by itself to win the game. It's the same with ghosts/hts. You might be able to snipe or storm as much energy as you have but it would be pretty much impossible to win any game using just mass ghosts/hts.
2. With range 9, it would make it much harder to snipe the infestor. Most units are range 6(think stalker, marauders, etc....) and of course, there are a lot of melee units. What will usually happen is that the Zerg sends his units into the Protoss then the Zerg player just has to click NP on his infestors and select the colossi. Due to the range, the stalkers would have a hard time trying to pick off the infestor so the colossi will remain in control of the Zerg player. This doesn't take into account using the other infestors to FG the zealots/stalkers etc... Essentially, the Protoss looses his power units, gets rooted so that they can't snipe the infestor and then his army gets demolished while the Zerg loses a much smaller amount in comparison. Of course, this doesn't consider ghosts/hts into the mix but with mech, you can still NP thors but they get a hit off I believe and the difference doesn't apply as much to tanks








Thoughts?

Edit: Day9 streaming DIII:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Day%5B9%5D


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15007295*
> There were 2 reasons that I see for the reduced range of NP.
> 1. The infestor was too good of a unit and it's main purpose is to support. I blame Destiny for this. Massing infestors, mass FG, mass NP, mass ITs, etc.... Basically, Blizzard doesn't want the infestor to be massed and then mostly used by itself to win the game. It's the same with ghosts/hts. You might be able to snipe or storm as much energy as you have but it would be pretty much impossible to win any game using just mass ghosts/hts.
> 2. With range 9, it would make it much harder to snipe the infestor. Most units are range 6(think stalker, marauders, etc....) and of course, there are a lot of melee units. What will usually happen is that the Zerg sends his units into the Protoss then the Zerg player just has to click NP on his infestors and select the colossi. Due to the range, the stalkers would have a hard time trying to pick off the infestor so the colossi will remain in control of the Zerg player. This doesn't take into account using the other infestors to FG the zealots/stalkers etc... Essentially, the Protoss looses his power units, gets rooted so that they can't snipe the infestor and then his army gets demolished while the Zerg loses a much smaller amount in comparison. Of course, this doesn't consider ghosts/hts into the mix but with mech, you can still NP thors but they get a hit off I believe and the difference doesn't apply as much to tanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Edit: Day9 streaming DIII:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Day%5B9%5D


So how do you fight the protoss deathball now? I've never successfully fought a deathball without getting off a neural. Are we supposed to go back to corruptors to fight colossi? Corruptors are horrible units. BTW, I was just testing the nerfed fungal against an marine/medivac ball. Medivac healing works WAY better now on fungaled marines with combat shields. I expected a difference, but I was really surprised.


----------



## Sainesk

I'm just not liking the thing they did with the audio... with the music fading and all when you do some action or whatever.

Thought my headphones were dying or something after the update...


----------



## Genome852

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15007927*
> I'm just not liking the thing they did with the audio... with the music fading and all when you do some action or whatever.
> 
> Thought my headphones were dying or something after the update...


Is it intentional? I thought my game was having sound problems...

It's horrible.

edit: I believe it's a setting in options, "alert fade."


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genome852;15008720*
> Is it intentional? I thought my game was having sound problems...


yea:
Quote:


> Most existing alert sounds are now reduced in volume when a new alert sound plays.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

This picture shows NP max range now. Stalkers and immortals standing right up against the colossus's feet are close enough to hit the infestor now. Good luck trying NP against a deathball that has protoss units stacked 3-4 rows deep in front of the colossi. We're going back to the dark days of buying corruptors every time we scout colossi.


----------



## CravinR1

So you think you should be able to NP a colossus from out of range of the units and make it kill all the protoss's units without him being able to snipe the infester? Yeah that sounds fair


----------



## Fortunex

Without him being able to snipe? It was still easy to snipe the infestors, but now you don't even need to snipe them, just a-move and they're in range.


----------



## Dr216

personally i dont see any need to lower NP range HT could already feedback at that range. and ghost can snipe and emp at longer range. Hell thermal lance colosi could hit them.

Its not even like you see heavy NP usage at the highest levels of play anyway sure you see it from time to time but its really hard to pull off, balancing around scrubs is foolish short sighted and hurts the game.


----------



## BountyHead

Yeah the death ball is going to be so much harder to fight. Even with infestors w/o damn near perfect micro the death ball still had the advantage roaches are just such a mediocre unit. And Hydras aren't nearly good enough they are just to slow to reinforce with.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I'm just not liking the thing they did with the audio... with the music fading and all when you do some action or whatever.

Thought my headphones were dying or something after the update...


hmm, I haven't had a chance to get into SCII but that doesn't sound too bad









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*


This picture shows NP max range now. Stalkers and immortals standing right up against the colossus's feet are close enough to hit the infestor now. Good luck trying NP against a deathball that has protoss units stacked 3-4 rows deep in front of the colossi. We're going back to the dark days of buying corruptors every time we scout colossi.











hmm, I dunno why they reduced the range to 7, my paragraph should've summed up what I believe were the reasons. I think range 8 would've been the better choice. Thing is, your army is still taking swipes at his army so even if he takes out the infestor(s), you've done a decent amount of damage with the colossi and your army. That and I think more people than not will still not focus the infestors down even if they are within range









Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Yeah the death ball is going to be so much harder to fight. Even with infestors w/o damn near perfect micro the death ball still had the advantage roaches are just such a mediocre unit. And Hydras aren't nearly good enough they are just to slow to reinforce with.


I don't believe that you should be using hydras against colossi







I think bane+roach+infestor are the way. A-move roaches in a wide area, FG units, drop banes, profit $$$


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


I don't believe that you should be using hydras against colossi







I think bane+roach+infestor are the way. A-move roaches in a wide area, FG units, drop banes, profit $$$

















Mid game no way do you have the gas to support that.

Also I'm watching WhiteRa stream, i swear the music he listens to makes me ROFL


----------



## QuadDamage

I think hydras really need a buff for how much minerals and gas they cost

I think even 90 health would be better then the crappy 80 they have. Or even 100. Or they should make like a health upgrade at the hydra den for 200/200 to increase 20 health or something. So they don't get roasted as fast vs toss


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*


I think hydras really need a buff for how much minerals and gas they cost

I think even 90 health would be better then the crappy 80 they have. Or even 100. Or they should make like a health upgrade at the hydra den for 200/200 to increase 20 health or something. So they don't get roasted as fast vs toss


You should *not* be going hydra against colosi/storms. They're light units, so you have to remember that. Hydra's have great DPS, but low health. You have to remember Zerg plays by the other races rules basically a reactionary race.


----------



## Dr216

Hydras are one of the units im 100% certain will be getting a complete reworking in hots, they just arn't not very versitile.

They are high dps but dont pack as close as other high dps units, are very squishy and incredibly slow. The only situation where hydras are realy viable is when toss goes vr pressure as you take your 3rd or if you scout spire tech late vs Z and then its due to being forced to use them rather than them being actualy any good.

I'm not sure what can be done to fix them but they are certainly in need of some tweaking. Personally im of the oppinion they need to swap places and prices with roaches take some rebalancing to reflect thier new cost, and give Z a viable early AA unit. Also allowing them to make roaches worth the supply they cost because frankly a roach is not worth 2 supply, however its certainly worth more than 1 : /


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Hydras are one of the units im 100% certain will be getting a complete reworking in hots, they just arn't not very versitile.

They are high dps but dont pack as close as other high dps units, are very squishy and incredibly slow. The only situation where hydras are realy viable is when toss goes vr pressure as you take your 3rd or if you scout spire tech late vs Z and then its due to being forced to use them rather than them being actualy any good.

I'm not sure what can be done to fix them but they are certainly in need of some tweaking. Personally im of the oppinion they need to swap places and prices with roaches take some rebalancing to reflect thier new cost, and give Z a viable early AA unit. Also allowing them to make roaches worth the supply they cost because frankly a roach is not worth 2 supply, however its certainly worth more than 1 : /


Early AA = queen, just get enough of them and it's not like they won't go unused into the late-game. Hydras are a great response to voidrays or some warpgate pressure. Getting roaches to tank damage while hydras deal it is what you want. They are like marines in a way, but more expensive, much higher DPS and mid tech.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


hmm, I haven't had a chance to get into SCII but that doesn't sound too bad









hmm, I dunno why they reduced the range to 7, my paragraph should've summed up what I believe were the reasons. I think range 8 would've been the better choice. Thing is, your army is still taking swipes at his army so even if he takes out the infestor(s), you've done a decent amount of damage with the colossi and your army. That and I think more people than not will still not focus the infestors down even if they are within range









I don't believe that you should be using hydras against colossi







I think bane+roach+infestor are the way. A-move roaches in a wide area, FG units, drop banes, profit $$$

















They won't need to focus down the infestor. Neural causes the infestor to jump to the top of the AI's targeting priority, which means every protoss ranged unit between the collossus and infestor will instantly start shooting at the infestor. I think it's highly doubtful that a neural could even be landed against a deathballed colossus, but if it does happen the result will be the infestor's death.

I agree that hydra probably won't be making a comeback because everyone has correctly concluded that hydra is an awful way to spend money and supply when protoss has T3 units on the field.


----------



## BountyHead

I think ultralisks need a kinda charge ability and should be able to walk over everything minus other massive units *snickers like a 14 y/o*


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15015418*
> I think ultralisks need a kinda charge ability and should be able to walk over everything minus other massive units *snickers like a 14 y/o*


And also blink, cloak and AA with splash.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15015418*
> I think ultralisks need a kinda charge ability and should be able to walk over everything minus other massive units *snickers like a 14 y/o*


The lack of "squash" ability of massive units in SC2 is about the only disadvantage it has compared to C&C. Ultralisk, Thors too, should be able to run over smaller units IMO


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15016420*
> And also blink, cloak and AA with splash.


Don't forget shields and a speed-buff.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15012882*
> I think bane+roach+infestor are the way. A-move roaches in a wide area, FG units, *drop banes*, profit $$$


didn't they just kinda nerf that, you can no longer drop units on top of other units?

the real counter is transfusing overlords I think, that just beats everything...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15013493*
> Mid game no way do you have the gas to support that.
> 
> Also I'm watching WhiteRa stream, i swear the music he listens to makes me ROFL


Well, it would be end mid to start late, but, I find that slings+roaches can hold on well against Protoss if you micro them(slings to attack stalkers, roaches to kite zealots)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15016420*
> And also blink, cloak and AA with splash.


haha, that would be great. 55sec 500hp massive unit that is cloaked, can shoot air and blink to escape when surrounded.
There are some things in SCII that you aren't OP, for OPness there is the ultralisk








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;15015300*
> They won't need to focus down the infestor. Neural causes the infestor to jump to the top of the AI's targeting priority, which means every protoss ranged unit between the collossus and infestor will instantly start shooting at the infestor. I think it's highly doubtful that a neural could even be landed against a deathballed colossus, but if it does happen the result will be the infestor's death.
> 
> I agree that hydra probably won't be making a comeback because everyone has correctly concluded that hydra is an awful way to spend money and supply when protoss has T3 units on the field.


Fair enough. I forgot about the auto target but the colossi still got the first shot off so I guess that evens it out







jk jk, the infestor will likely be used more of a support role from now on(guessing here)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15017353*
> didn't they just kinda nerf that, you can no longer drop units on top of other units?
> 
> the real counter is transfusing overlords I think, that just beats everything...


nope, you originally couldn't drop if there was no space. Given, most people didn't realize that and as a result, they thought it got nerfed when it didn't work in the PTR. I think ultralisk+queens is a great combo late game. Transfuse and AA


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15016420*
> And also blink, cloak and AA with splash.


I'd just settle for Blink









I think blizzard still has a long way to go in balancing this game :/ The new patch doesn't rly address anything other than infestors ALONE in protoss. NP wasn't rly a problem for a good protoss anyway . Pretty simple to focus fire the controlling infestor with other colosi.

Maybe they're just screwing with the balance so we'll all buy HotS?







I heard there's gonna be a colosi-like unit for zerg


----------



## BountyHead

Zerg needs one Giant baneling has 800hp does splash over 15 spaces for 200+dmg to all it should also only cost 150/150 xD


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15019006*
> Zerg needs one Giant baneling has 800hp does splash over 15 spaces for 200+dmg to all it should also only cost 150/150 xD










That would be just crazy, but, I would LOVE IT!







Zerg would be FOTM every month


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15019373*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be just crazy, but, I would LOVE IT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerg would be FOTM every month


Should be like a mo-ship only one at a time


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BountyHead*


Should be like a mo-ship only one at a time


Z needs that giant flying thing that spawns broodlings from the campaign. Has like 2000hp or something like that. T would still be overpowered though...


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Z needs that giant flying thing that spawns broodlings from the campaign. Has like 2000hp or something like that. T would still be overpowered though...










You're thinking about the swarm guardian, I think. Definitely needs that, maybe it could spit banelings at your enemies


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15025871*
> You're thinking about the swarm guardian, I think. Definitely needs that, maybe it could spit banelings at your enemies


Or could be an instant win. Oh, wait, Z already is an instant win..


----------



## DoomDash

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2995653/StarCraft_II_Balance_Snapshot_-22_09_2011#blog


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15027618*
> http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2995653/StarCraft_II_Balance_Snapshot_-22_09_2011#blog


Nice to see that you still frequent the thread/post here doom









Patch 1.4 went live yesterday I believe, curious to see how the MUs change


----------



## DoomDash

I lurk more now. I still have my love for SCII, just not willing to play atm.


----------



## QuadDamage

Op


----------



## DEEBS808

Just purchased this game.And plan to log some hours on this game.One one my first pc games to ever get addicted to was Starcraft and since I finished my first pc build I decided to try this out.Play a few games last night and loved it brings backs memories of my many hours spent on SC.


----------



## Sangers_low

Very interesting... I think it has something to do with the super gay maps blizzard consistently make.


----------



## DoomDash

Already posted the direct link, but I guess the screen helps.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15028156*
> Already posted the direct link, but I guess the screen helps.


I didn't see page 1673 when I was posting that :/ Well looking at that, I don't rly understand the direction they took with patch 1.4


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15028196*
> I didn't see page 1673 when I was posting that :/ Well looking at that, I don't rly understand the direction they took with patch 1.4


Why not ?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15027727*
> I lurk more now. I still have my love for SCII, just not willing to play atm.


nice nice, same here








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15028196*
> I didn't see page 1673 when I was posting that :/ Well looking at that, I don't rly understand the direction they took with patch 1.4


Well, they didn't want BFH to take out workers in 2 volleys but at the same time, they wanted them to be able to 2 shot slings thus the 5 decrease. They wanted the infestor to be more of a support unit instead of massing infestors and spamming NP and FG with some ITs to win. Immortal range was for 1-1-1, mothership, no reason







and the ramp vision to help PvsP


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15028278*
> Why not ?


Well in PvZ, they buffed toss and nerfed zerg no? That percentage heavily favours protoss O_O. I don't rly get it tho... cause unless i get cheesed, the MU usually goes easy for my side. Always thought ZvP was zerg favoured because of that and the tourney results.

Another interesting thing is the strength of KR zergs. Pretty impressive huh?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15028315*
> Well in PvZ, they buffed toss and nerfed zerg no? That percentage heavily favours protoss O_O. I don't rly get it tho... cause unless i get cheesed, the MU usually goes easy for my side. Always thought ZvP was zerg favoured because of that and the tourney results.
> 
> Another interesting thing is the strength of KR zergs. Pretty impressive huh?


I tend to do pretty well ZvP but also in PvZ so I've always felt it was pretty balanced except for blink stalkers









yep all 5 korean zergs keeping the win % up


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15025871*
> You're thinking about the swarm guardian, I think. Definitely needs that, maybe it could spit banelings at your enemies


If you could upgrade brood lords into baneling lords that would be sweet. Totally imba, but sweet.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;15029463*
> If you could upgrade brood lords into baneling lords that would be sweet. Totally imba, but sweet.


They would be crazy OP especially since a decent portion of Terrans myself included make marines+vikings to counter BLs so 2 banes would one shot like 10 marines


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15028310*
> nice nice, same here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they didn't want BFH to take out workers in 2 volleys but at the same time, they wanted them to be able to 2 shot slings thus the 5 decrease. They wanted the infestor to be more of a support unit instead of massing infestors and spamming NP and FG with some ITs to win. Immortal range was for 1-1-1, mothership, no reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the ramp vision to help PvsP


Zergs have relied heavily on infestor because they have to. It's been the only weapon to break the P deathball or big midgame terran mech army, and it saves you from buying overpriced garbage units for air defense in the midgame. The festor nerfs make ZvT a lot harder and totally break PvZ. Before the latest pathch neural parasite meant toss couldn't mindlessly do that stupid 3-base turtle into the colossus/stalker deathball, which is how PvZ was played for a very long time. Unfortunately that's how PvZ will be played again. I get tired of hearing people say NP wasn't used in most PvZ, and therefore it wasn't important. It was the THREAT of it that was just as important as the use of it. The threat of NP meant toss could no longer get by with doing the same old stupid predictable stuff to get an auto-win. Now the threat is removed.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer;15029878*
> Zergs have relied heavily on infestor because they have to. It's been the only weapon to break the P deathball or big midgame terran mech army, and it saves you from buying overpriced garbage units for air defense in the midgame. The festor nerfs make ZvT a lot harder and totally break PvZ. Before the latest pathch neural parasite meant toss couldn't mindlessly do that stupid 3-base turtle into the colossus/stalker deathball, which is how PvZ was played for a very long time. Unfortunately that's how PvZ will be played again. I get tired of hearing people say NP wasn't used in most PvZ, and therefore it wasn't important. It was the THREAT of it that was just as important as the use of it. The threat of NP meant toss could no longer get by with doing the same old stupid predictable stuff to get an auto-win. Now the threat is removed.


The only answer to PvsZ is to keep the pressure and prevent him from massing the deathball. Mech TvsZ, then you can still NP thors, only difference is that they'll get a hit off I believe but the infestor will survive









Edit: An interesting night, finally had a chance to play a game or two, although they were customs. Didn't wanna get roflstomped laddering







First game ZvsT on ST, my opponent goes for a factory expand. Block my ramp, lose maybe 3 drones+4 slings but nothing else. Game goes on, I drone up, FORGET TO MAKE A BANE NEST!!!! and he does an elevator lift with a medivacs with marines and BFH. I lose drones but defend it and mostly drone up. Pushed out again with MMT force, defend it losing drones, etc.... eventually, I drone up to about the same amount of workers as him but negelect making units and get run over by 3 thors, 5-6 tanks and like 20-30 marines XD
Games 2 and 3(PvsTs) are against newbies. You can tell from how many workers they had, their building placement, etc.... Blink stalkers in first game then he left and mass sentries in the 2nd game. I actually took out 2 thors and a small MM with like 25 sentries and had a ton left to boot XD Both of them confirmed my suspicions


----------



## Sangers_low

Holy tails!!!!!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15036648*
> Holy tails!!!!!!


What happened?









Just found this:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOHGjY2B3d8[/ame]
Some old TvsZ replay, I think it was when I started playing as Terran in S3, likely the first game because I do remember it well enough. Too bad he didn't chose a much later replay, would've been more interesting and he would've shown that at least I expand and can macro better









[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeh9wT5GCIM[/ame]
Another one I found, TvsP in this case. I do recall playing this one right in the middle of Season 3









I will still echo what I was thinking before, should've casted one of my newer replays


----------



## StarDestroyer

I wiill plawy this game when I soon have i5-2500k


----------



## poroboszcz

The new APM is funny. Mine has dropped from about 200 to 70 average







. I played a master player today with 40 apm.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


The new APM is funny. Mine has dropped from about 200 to 70 average







. I played a master player today with 40 apm.


Mine was a painful 55 or so for Zerg


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15040371*
> Mine was a painful 55 or so for Zerg


Let's average urs and mine(120) and say zergs wins !!








Quote:


> What happened?


GSTL fiasco D:. IM vs MVP GSTL playoffs


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



IMHappy 3 killed, DRG 3 killed, MVP killed DRG, but MVPTails came out and beat MVP and Nestea, with combination of solid play and incredible timing/luck, it was awe inspiring to watch. Very impeccable observer timing and the strength of immortals stopped MVP's 1/1/1 and game changing drop stop(Nestea's huge drop was caught mid way by a bunch of blink stalkers, allowing Tails to kill all of Nestea's army AND overlords, which ended the game) Gave MVP 5:4 win. Amazing game, but pretty sad for an IM fan to see them knocked out


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


The new APM is funny. Mine has dropped from about 200 to 70 average







. I played a master player today with 40 apm.


Funny my APM stayed the same. You damn SPAMMERS. more EAPM!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


Funny my APM stayed the same. You damn SPAMMERS. more EAPM!


Yeah there sure was a lot of spam, but tapping hotkeys is actually beneficial for your macro and: 1,2,3,4,e,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,c,1,2,3,4,e,5,6 - before patch 21 actions, now 3.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Mine was a painful 55 or so for Zerg










stutter stepping marines gets an easy 60+ as T...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


stutter stepping marines gets an easy 60+ as T...










haha, true true. Mostly going off that ZvsT game that I played ^^

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Let's average urs and mine(120) and say zergs wins !!









GSTL fiasco D:. IM vs MVP GSTL playoffs

IMHappy 3 killed, DRG 3 killed, MVP killed DRG, but MVPTails came out and beat MVP and Nestea, with combination of solid play and incredible timing/luck, it was awe inspiring to watch. Very impeccable observer timing and the strength of immortals stopped MVP's 1/1/1 and game changing drop stop(Nestea's huge drop was caught mid way by a bunch of blink stalkers, allowing Tails to kill all of Nestea's army AND overlords, which ended the game) Gave MVP 5:4 win. Amazing game, but pretty sad for an IM fan to see them knocked out


wow, that sounds awesome actually, especially the MVP part. I thought he doesn't 1-1-1 considering he said a while back that he believes it's a bit OP and doesn't want free wins. Guess not XD


----------



## Razultull

i think my APM didn't suffer at all. Never one to spam control groups but hotkeys maybe. I do click a lot though. So its been at a consistent 100.


----------



## slytown

For the last time, APM doesn't matter. It's what u do with ur clicks. I could care less if it dropped with the patch and you should to.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15011634*
> Without him being able to snipe? It was still easy to snipe the infestors, but now you don't even need to snipe them, just a-move and they're in range.


special and range units you should have to snipe, not a-move to kill.


----------



## Shinigami~

WAIT are you guys saying that patch 1.4 made the APM different? why am I not aware of this part... I pretty much live, breath and sleep SC2 :S


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slytown*


special and range units you should have to snipe, not a-move to kill.


Exactly my point.


----------



## BigFan

TL attack with DRG: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV


----------



## ackneal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


Check out the OP for a list of those who stream. I would contact them for that info because they would know how to get a smooth 1080p stream










I've tried contacting several, such a ROOTDestiny. Problem is nobody responds.. I'm having a hard time believing that my system cannot support anything higher than FPS while streaming =/

Tried using Adobe FMLE along with the VHScrap + Virtual Audio Cables, doesn't work too well..

Also, anyone know how to get HD available for playback on your stream? Particularly Justin.Tv


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ackneal*


I've tried contacting several, such a ROOTDestiny. Problem is nobody responds.. I'm having a hard time believing that my system cannot support anything higher than FPS while streaming =/

Tried using Adobe FMLE along with the VHScrap + Virtual Audio Cables, doesn't work too well..

Also, anyone know how to get HD available for playback on your stream? Particularly Justin.Tv


Quite a few streamers swear by Xsplit. http://www.xsplit.com/ I think the beta is currently free and when it goes final it will be something like 75 bucks a year


----------



## Ruckol1

Yeah Im pretty positive they all use xSplit, as for getting the HD quality you need a sufficient rig which I see you have, but also some very very good up load speeds.


----------



## BountyHead

I just started to mess with Xsplit because i was curious. I found with my 10/1 connection i could stream 960x540 at 8 qaulity pretty well i only streamed a few custom v ai no real games but its not too horrific

http://www.twitch.tv/bountyhead The evolution of me messing with Xsplit  one of the games has a really nasty buzz xD i dunno what i did but a reboot fixed it heheh


----------



## yks

You stream newbs are so cute.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ackneal;15063606*
> I've tried contacting several, such a ROOTDestiny. Problem is nobody responds.. I'm having a hard time believing that my system cannot support anything higher than FPS while streaming =/
> 
> Tried using Adobe FMLE along with the VHScrap + Virtual Audio Cables, doesn't work too well..
> 
> Also, anyone know how to get HD available for playback on your stream? Particularly Justin.Tv


I meant contacting OCN members who stream. The list is in the OP, I'm sure they can help you out. That and yks used to stream as I recall so maybe he has some tips.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;15066449*
> You stream newbs are so cute.


hehe, well, why do you prostreamer tell them what to do?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ackneal;15063606*
> I've tried contacting several, such a ROOTDestiny. Problem is nobody responds.


Sending it to someone like that isnt going to get you far Destiny will be getting hundreds of emails a day from people just like you, If you want a response your best bet would be sending it in as a question to a show like inside the game.

But really all that information is out there you just need to start looking in the right places.

Probably a good place to start.


----------



## roberT_

ackneal... I can help you out.

I run my stream at 1080p with no issues. Message me or post here. I could help you when I get home from work tonight.


----------



## roberT_

I've got a question for the thread.

Razultull and I were arguing about this and I wanted others opinions. It has to do with the lovely topic of what an all-in is.

I played a TvZ and did a 1 rax expand. Normally when I do this I build my CC behind a wall-in and don't take my expo till I have 2 tanks out. Then, at the 9-10 minute mark, I move out with 3 tanks and all my marines for a timing push. The Z called it an all-in and Raz had been watching it on my stream. Raz agreed with the Zerg that I all-ined which I couldn't believe.

I've always considered all-ins where you either bring a significant amount of workers with your attack and/or cut worker production, neither of which I did. Raz said it was an all-in because I brought my entire army and his argument was that if that attack failed I would lose&#8230;..

Anyways, what do you guys think? What is an all-in?


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15069620*
> I've got a question for the thread.
> 
> Razultull and I were arguing about this and I wanted others opinions. It has to do with the lovely topic of what an all-in is.
> 
> I played a TvZ and did a 1 rax expand. Normally when I do this I build my CC behind a wall-in and don't take my expo till I have 2 tanks out. Then, at the 9-10 minute mark, I move out with 3 tanks and all my marines for a timing push. The Z called it an all-in and Raz had been watching it on my stream. Raz agreed with the Zerg that I all-ined which I couldn't believe.
> 
> I've always considered all-ins where you either bring a significant amount of workers with your attack and/or cut worker production, neither of which I did. Raz said it was an all-in because I brought my entire army and his argument was that if that attack failed I would lose&#8230;..
> 
> Anyways, what do you guys think? What is an all-in?


hmm, tbh I don't believe it's an all-in due to the fact that you are expanding behind it. My advice would be to make a bunker of 2, basically some barrier so if you lose the army, your Z opponent can't just run into your exp, pick of SCVs then run into your main. A lot of T players build bunkers or depots since you can lower/salvage them later on


----------



## roberT_

Yeah, that is a good tweak to make BigFan. If I'm going to get that diamond promotion I'll have to be covering all the holes in my builds.

If I put a mix of depots and bunkers at my natural I should be really safe.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15069740*
> Yeah, that is a good tweak to make BigFan. If I'm going to get that diamond promotion I'll have to be covering all the holes in my builds.
> 
> If I put a mix of depots and bunkers at my natural I should be really safe.


Doing 1 rax expand into straight Siege tanks/marines is obviously gonna quicken ur push timing. He's a noob for not scouting ur siege tank timing.

It's obviously not all in, but even if one loses to all in, why cry about it? -_-
One of the largest difference between KR and NA mentality is that NA players seem to consider "mechanics" as the primary measurement for skill. Considering SC2 mechanics especially protoss'(One of the reason protoss is UP, their mechanics skill cap is so low) are a joke compared to SC1, being good at it hardly makes one skilled at this game.


----------



## Dr216

An all in is in my opinion any strategy that you cannot transition out of, So whereby if you move out and you HAVE to deal damage otherwise you loose (you dont necessarily have to deal the killing blow but you have to do damage)

If with your build you never actually attacked him with your force and went right back home and you would still not be significantly behind then its not an all in.

What you did was a tank pressure into expand, not even remotely an all in unless you make it one by throwing away your whole army.


----------



## QuadDamage

Steven uses Xsplit


----------



## Fortunex

An all-in is an attack that will leave you behind if you don't do damage with it. Even if you don't attack with it and your army just walks to his base and back with no losses.

If you lose your army at any point in the game, you'll probably lose, that's irrelevant. If you expanded and didn't cut or pull workers, it's not an all-in, it's just a normal attack.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


Yeah, that is a good tweak to make BigFan. If I'm going to get that diamond promotion I'll have to be covering all the holes in my builds.

If I put a mix of depots and bunkers at my natural I should be really safe.


its an all in kinda...

you are expanding SO later against a zerg its kind of amazing. most standard terran 1 rax expos just throw 2 bunkers and move out. you are missing A TON of mining time from having your drones all mine off 1 set of patches and you are missing the gas from the natural which you will need to transition into double fac plus upgrades and eventually into trip fac and thors/ghosts for late game zvt so in that way its all in because you didnt really set yourself up for success and might as well just done a 1 base tank marine timing anyway

im masters with all 3 so i can speak to this. a good player who holds this push has a MASSIVE advantage because you have not set up your second base for long and this lack of mining puts you very very far behind. now in diamond and below and even low masters these mistakes dont matter. as long as you are droning off both bases, when you expand are basically fully saturated you are good to go but then tbh the timing makes it so that you SHOULD be starting to build a 3rd

also to the guy who mentioned throwing away the entire army? most zvt actually revolves around a terran keeping the zerg honest and throwing away armys (marines preferably) throughout the game. a standard game that is good for the terran involves a terran attacking zerg every 4 or 5mins with bigger and bigger tank/marine numbers because hes been slowly expanding his building count and base count which at the same time keeps the zerg from choosing the army he wants. banes make zvt such a dumb match that unless the terran screws up royally with macro a small re-massed army can beat any small remaining banes/lings and turrets and thors will stop any mutas so it makes zerg counterattacking almost impossible again unless the zerg CRUSHES the terrans force. 9/10 tank marine pushes that come at 10mins get destroyed and it doesnt matter one bit


----------



## MrSleepin

i bought a 3d monitor! so within a few days i will be playing this in 3d!

anybody else have a 3d setup?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSleepin;15088629*
> i bought a 3d monitor! so within a few days i will be playing this in 3d!
> 
> anybody else have a 3d setup?


Planning on playing 3D soon, say how it goes for you


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrSleepin*


i bought a 3d monitor! so within a few days i will be playing this in 3d!

anybody else have a 3d setup?


i play in 120hz much smoother tried 3d but its a gimick at best.


----------



## MrSleepin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


i play in 120hz much smoother tried 3d but its a gimick at best.


well it is also 120hz... so if anything, it is still an upgrade! 1" more and 120hz rather than 60hz


----------



## ackneal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15069555*
> ackneal... I can help you out.
> 
> I run my stream at 1080p with no issues. Message me or post here. I could help you when I get home from work tonight.


Robert, sorry for the late reply. I'll be free all day Wednesday to work on this. Please shoot me an email back (the email I PMed you) on what time works best for you. Thanks again for your time.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSleepin;15091156*
> well it is also 120hz... so if anything, it is still an upgrade! 1" more and 120hz rather than 60hz


yeah 120hz is most definitely worth it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Got a new GPU that maxes SC2
*can't handle the *beauty*!*


----------



## Sainesk

starjeweled insane loves my match history...

all these loses are so pretty.

As a guy with one or two achievements, I'd say this is one of the hardest in the game...

(also my bronze league brother doing it has me raging...







)

oh btw I figured out why it didn't give me the achievement that one time I beat it and QQ'ed on here, you have to go to multiplayer --> custom game, if you go to single player --> play vs ai, the game will just laugh at your tears...

edit: got it now, guess going to the gym was a good warmup exercise for starjeweled...


----------



## Sainesk

a lot of music in the gsl is so sick imo!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sainesk*


a lot of music in the gsl is so sick imo!


+1


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


i play in 120hz much smoother tried 3d but its a gimick at best.


3D SC2 would be so distracting to say the least.

Also finally moved out of Gold


----------



## DoomDash

I played a little SP in 3D, no reason to play with it in MP.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


3D SC2 would be so distracting to say the least.

Also finally moved out of Gold



















took you long enough ..... jk jk








Congrats, took me a while to get into Plat as well but I wasn't concentrating in improving


----------



## Sainesk

does status bar always on affect performance?

I managed to get my gaming rig to hit 17fps on low 1080p using a full army of slings







just wondering if the status bar is to blame...


----------



## CravinR1

You Tube


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


does status bar always on affect performance?

I managed to get my gaming rig to hit 17fps on low 1080p using a full army of slings







just wondering if the status bar is to blame...


status bar? I have no clue. My lappy can't survive once there are a lot of units on the screen.
Since I haven't played in a while and wanted to have a fun custom, I went the aggressive terran style which I personally like considering it's micro intensive:

I wasn't able to take a third until it was too late but I took out his 4th twice and micro'd my way out of some messy situations. Too bad gamereplays doesn't show APM!!!!!

1 rax FE is such an interesting build against Protoss XD
Had a TvsT where my opponent asked for no cheesy and a macro game. I decided to give him what he wanted. Went depot 16 cc rax into mass rax play with drops. Had 13 rax producting by the end of the game and 5 bases(one being a gold, 5th was finishing construction). Opponent went for:








I just had to chuckle at his last comment. I dropped him a couple of times taking over around 20-30 SCVs and taking out his exp cc in the 2nd drop as well as his 3rd cc. Wish I get more of these kinda games, no pressure just have fun harassing, etc....







Should say I'm starting to get used to my new mouse even though I've played like 5 games in a month but the marine micro in that previous game with the other 2 customs tonight were exactly what I needed.

For some reason, I find 1 rax cc to be pretty good. Played a TvsP where I went for that strat then 2 bunkers with some depots and 7 rax. I had a feeling my opponent will go for dts after my marine got killed at the tower by his units(I didn't even see dts, only zealots+stalkers after my marine died), so, I got an engineering bay, got a turret and what do you know, he marches 5 of them up to my bunkers, roflstomped XD Then I snuck some MM around the tower since he was holding it and took out a ton of probes at his exp. He said gg in his own way and left XD


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


took you long enough ..... jk jk








Congrats, took me a while to get into Plat as well but I wasn't concentrating in improving










What's interesting is that I am diamond for US and plat for EU >_>

Haven't played on the US server for about ~1-2 months though


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


What's interesting is that I am diamond for US and plat for EU >_>

Haven't played on the US server for about ~1-2 months though


You should give me a shout or add me on EU: Blinker.868 so we can have some practice games. I'm diamond, but I haven't played in a while.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15123101*
> What's interesting is that I am diamond for US and plat for EU >_>
> 
> Haven't played on the US server for about ~1-2 months though


tbh the difference between leagues isn't as big as many people think. Maybe between the top of a league and the bottom/middle of another. Just to clarify, I'm mostly talking about adjacent leagues here not multiple leagues(example: silver to plat). Once you hit top gold and take on Plat, you'll find that they are about the same level or some are even worse. This is mostly from my experience though.

If you put in the effort because you wanna get promoted, then chances are you will get promoted. Might sound bizzare, but, it's happened to me twice already. I'll have a 50% win rate, decide that I wanted to get promoted (gold, plat) then I just play like 10 games a day(avg) for a couple of days or so and concentrate on my gameplay making sure to work on macro and voila, promotion


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15126752*
> tbh the difference between leagues isn't as big as many people think. Maybe between the top of a league and the bottom/middle of another. Just to clarify, I'm mostly talking about adjacent leagues here not multiple leagues(example: silver to plat). Once you hit top gold and take on Plat, you'll find that they are about the same level or some are even worse. This is mostly from my experience though.
> 
> If you put in the effort because you wanna get promoted, then chances are you will get promoted. Might sound bizzare, but, it's happened to me twice already. I'll have a 50% win rate, decide that I wanted to get promoted (gold, plat) then I just play like 10 games a day(avg) for a couple of days or so and concentrate on my gameplay making sure to work on macro and voila, promotion


Yeah and sometimes Blizzard just screws up rankings,
I got placed in silver the begging of the season. Now I'm plat with 47 wins out of 57 games







(most of them were in silver just holding off all-ins, also noticed how bad mannered they were lol. I think generally the worst mannered are the low/middle ranks, silver/gold/plat)

Hate having a high w/l ratio, makes me not want to go on a losing spree now xD


----------



## slickwilly

There is no reason for bad manners even in a video game
I don't rage quit just because I am losing, I hang and duke it out until the bitter end.

on a side not, what is a BFH in SC2 terms? I am a mechanic by trade and BFH means
Big F. hammer to me


----------



## Fortunex

Blue Flame Hellion


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slickwilly;15128574*
> There is no reason for bad manners even in a video game
> I don't rage quit just because I am losing, I hang and duke it out until the bitter end.
> 
> on a side not, what is a BFH in SC2 terms? I am a mechanic by trade and BFH means
> Big F. hammer to me


I find it annoying when people don't GG even when they have just lost all their bases, but instead just build a random base... Especially against terran, because they just hide their buildings. These ends are bitter for the victor. Recognize defeat and GG.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt;15129484*
> I find it annoying when people don't GG even when they have just lost all their bases, but instead just build a random base... Especially against terran, because they just hide their buildings. These ends are bitter for the victor. Recognize defeat and GG.


This.

I mean often I don't GG if I lose to some cheese or all-in but otherwise I would.

And dragging the game on for no reason is bm.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


This.

I mean often I don't GG if I lose to some cheese or all-in but otherwise I would.

And dragging the game on for no reason is bm.


I'm sure if it's a drop hack, but in some games, the winning side can get dropped lol. Had couple of games like that in team games >_> prolly hacks


----------



## QuadDamage

I never GG I BM them makes me feel like a big man!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15130168*
> I'm sure if it's a drop hack, but in some games, the winning side can get dropped lol. Had couple of games like that in team games >_> prolly hacks


yeah, me too... Those people should be put behind bars IMO


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RlndVt*


I find it annoying when people don't GG even when they have just lost all their bases, but instead just build a random base... Especially against terran, because they just hide their buildings. These ends are bitter for the victor. Recognize defeat and GG.


wait... what?









I agree partly if someone is being BM by floating his buildings to the corner of the map and making you wait an extra 5 minutes to make air units to take them out. HOWEVER, if someone lost his bases and tries to fight back making another base somewhere, etc... but leaves the game as you are destroying his last base without gging. IMO, that is not BM.

This is a game and there are no rules for what you have to say. That doesn't mean that someone should BM someone(meaning trash talk or lift buildings to corner, etc...) but that also doesn't mean that I have to GG if I don't want to. I used to glhf and gg every game but nowadays, if I don't feel like gging, I won't. I'll just F10-> s and watch replay/play the next game


----------



## Dr216

Has anyone else had an unuasualy large number of people "dissconecting" on them when they have clearly lost a game had like 4 games in a row where I had clearly won and the other guy "dced" really annoying.


----------



## ntherblast

Wait what people are getting butt hurt because people don't say gg? Or the usual robot opener glhf? We do know this is an online game right? Now I could understand if this was at a real tournament


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Wait what people are getting butt hurt because people don't say gg? Or the usual robot opener glhf? We do know this is an online game right? Now I could understand if this was at a real tournament


Not sure about others, but I'm butthurt cause of people who deliberately stall a completely lost game in hope of b.net disconnecting me. Or they do it so they can drop hack me.

I hate Maphackers too. One of the reasons I left NA server. There are tonne of hackers in the NA GM section as well. They're tonne of peps accused of MHing, but the COMPLETELY confirmed ones are: Lone, oGsNada.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Not sure about others, but I'm butthurt cause of people who deliberately stall a completely lost game in hope of b.net disconnecting me. Or they do it so they can drop hack me.

I hate Maphackers too. One of the reasons I left NA server. There are tonne of hackers in the NA GM section as well. They're tonne of peps accused of MHing, but the COMPLETELY confirmed ones are: Lone, oGsNada.


OMG Nada is hacking!


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Not sure about others, but I'm butthurt cause of people who deliberately stall a completely lost game in hope of b.net disconnecting me. Or they do it so they can drop hack me.

I hate Maphackers too. One of the reasons I left NA server. There are tonne of hackers in the NA GM section as well. They're tonne of peps accused of MHing, but the COMPLETELY confirmed ones are: Lone, oGsNada.


Well I wasn't talking about stalling a game


----------



## Razultull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Not sure about others, but I'm butthurt cause of people who deliberately stall a completely lost game in hope of b.net disconnecting me. Or they do it so they can drop hack me.

I hate Maphackers too. One of the reasons I left NA server. There are tonne of hackers in the NA GM section as well. They're tonne of peps accused of MHing, but the COMPLETELY confirmed ones are: Lone, oGsNada.


Haha yea i played oGsNada's team mate for 2s who has a 100% win ratio in 4v4 and 3v3 all with oGsNada in the team. + My friend has played him on the 1v1 ladder and others have confirmed he hacks.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Wait what people are getting butt hurt because people don't say gg? Or the usual robot opener glhf? We do know this is an online game right? Now I could understand if this was at a real tournament


It's people who go like "ZOMG TERRAN IS SO OP U SUCK MAN LIEK NO OTHER RACE CAN DO THIS OR THAT etc"

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Not sure about others, but I'm butthurt cause of people who deliberately stall a completely lost game in hope of b.net disconnecting me. Or they do it so they can drop hack me.

I hate Maphackers too. One of the reasons I left NA server. There are tonne of hackers in the NA GM section as well. They're tonne of peps accused of MHing, but the COMPLETELY confirmed ones are: Lone, oGsNada.


Never encountered map hackers









I doubt NaDa used the map hack to win on ladder, because he used it only for a few games. It would make sense if he used it to see what his opponents timings were and how he can alter his builds to counter it. He does not use it in real tournaments, which is where his true competition lies.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


I doubt NaDa used the map hack to win on ladder, because he used it only for a few games. It would make sense if he used it to see what his opponents timings were and how he can alter his builds to counter it. He does not use it in real tournaments, which is where his true competition lies.


oGsNADA on the Na servers is not the real Nada. no way he would risk his reputation even just online by map hacking.


----------



## Fortunex

I heard that the Nada on the NA servers that's been accused of maphacking is a fake.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Never encountered map hackers










People who rage about maphackers are just sour themselves because they keep losing. Hacking is extremely rare in SC2.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop*


People who rage about maphackers are just sour themselves because they keep losing. Hacking is extremely rare in SC2.


Or some people are just really lucky to counter your builds


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop*


People who rage about maphackers are just sour themselves because they keep losing. Hacking is extremely rare in SC2.


You obviously don't know hacks and its community. Hacking is a huge problem in the upper level of the ladder, and blizzard does nothing to fix that. There are free and paid hacks running rampant on b.net

oGsNada in NA is not the real one. Him and Lone are CONFIRMED hackers, who even used Achievement hacks, win hacks against A.I and win/loss trading, which are all easily discovered by analysing their profile.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15135113*
> People who rage about maphackers are just sour themselves because they keep losing. Hacking is extremely rare in SC2.


I wish you were right but its simply not the case I've came accross a good few map hackers that are easily confirmable. and have been dsrop hacked on a number of occasions.

it only takes a small percentage of hackers to really damage the experiance for others.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;15138064*
> I wish you were right but its simply not the case I've came accross a good few map hackers that are easily confirmable. and have been dsrop hacked on a number of occasions.
> 
> it only takes a small percentage of hackers to really damage the experiance for others.


I thought that they would get caught out pretty fast and their account banned. (Much like mw2 and hacking, except OMG SO MANY HACKERS IN MW2)

It just seems so stupid to me, because you WILL get banned sooner or later.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15138187*
> It just seems so stupid to me, because you WILL get banned sooner or later.


Yeah, I just don't understand why can't they just make something like Valves VAC. I've played CSS for several years and have never seen a hacker.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15138206*
> Yeah, I just don't understand why can't they just make something like Valves VAC. I've played CSS for several years and have never seen a hacker.


Wait are there people getting away with hacking almost indefinitely?


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15138441*
> Wait are there people getting away with hacking almost indefinitely?


Well, according to these guys in this thread, yes. Blizzard really needs to rewamp their anti-cheat system, hacking is unacceptable nowadays.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15138206*
> Yeah, I just don't understand why can't they just make something like Valves VAC. I've played CSS for several years and have never seen a hacker.


Blizzard's very greedy, even though they have a good rep. They know if a hacker's banned, most of the time, they'll go out and buy another acc.
Quote:


> Wait are there people getting away with hacking almost indefinitely?


The two guys I've mentioned have been hacking since S1. Most of the people who get banned probably use free public hacks. Paid hack users endure like roaches


----------



## Alex132

Paid hackers are just sad... who would pay for a hack?

Also what I've noticed is something I like to call the cheese-curve. (and drop-off)

This is how much I have experienced cheese (through 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 play, also from my friends account (he's basically gm, and just won the country tourney today







))

__...................................................______
....___..........................................._.........._
.........______________...........______............._
................................______.............................____
.........................................................................._____

Bronze | Silver | Gold | Platinum | Diamond | Masters | Grand Masters, from friends view only

That actually looks really stupid, but you get what I mean xD


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15139275*
> Paid hackers are just sad... who would pay for a hack?
> 
> Also what I've noticed is something I like to call the cheese-curve. (and drop-off)
> 
> This is how much I have experienced cheese (through 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 play, also from my friends account (he's basically gm, and just won the country tourney today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ))
> 
> __...................................................______
> ....___..........................................._.........._
> .........______________...........______.............._
> ................................______..........................____
> .........................................................................._____
> 
> Bronze | Silver | Gold | Platinum | Diamond | Masters | Grand Masters, from friends view only
> 
> That actually looks really stupid, but you get what I mean xD


Can someone explain to me what exactly is cheese? Thanks.

Paid hacks are sad, truly...


----------



## Fortunex

Cheese is an easy "strategy" that doesn't take much skill to pull off, but can be very effective, but if it doesn't do much/any damage, it sets you behind a lot. It also generally relies on the other person not having scouting information/taking them by surprise.

Marine/SCV all-in, 6-7-8-9-10pool, cannon rush, void ray rush, etc.


----------



## ntherblast

Quick question I know its off topic but when I record videos with fraps why does it split the videos into different parts? Is there a setting I need to change and yes I am using the paid version


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ntherblast*


Quick question I know its off topic but when I record videos with fraps why does it split the videos into different parts? Is there a setting I need to change and yes I am using the paid version


It has a 3.98Gb limit to each file. IIRC it's so that FAT32 formatted HDD's can still record them (FAT32's limit for a single file is 4Gb)

Other than that i have no idea why it would do it.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Cheese is an easy "strategy" that doesn't take much skill to pull off, but can be very effective, but if it doesn't do much/any damage, it sets you behind a lot. It also generally relies on the other person not having scouting information/taking them by surprise.

Marine/SCV all-in, 6-7-8-9-10pool, cannon rush, void ray rush, etc.


10 pool isn't cheese. 6 and 7 are, 8 and 9 are debatable. Lots of Zergs go 10 pool in ZvsZ incase of early ling harass or to get the upper hand.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop*


Yeah, I just don't understand why can't they just make something like Valves VAC. I've played CSS for several years and have never seen a hacker.


I've heard horror stories about VAC, rather that wasn't implemented in SCII


----------



## Fortunex

I think 10 pool can be cheese, depends if you get it before or after overlord.


----------



## Alex132

It definitely is cheese


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


It definitely is cheese


I don't believe early pool in ZvP and ZvZ is cheese. It's a great way to apply pressure and stop FFE or droning. On maps like TDA, 6 pool's is very standard. Ofc, this could just be KR server


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


It has a 3.98Gb limit to each file. IIRC it's so that FAT32 formatted HDD's can still record them (FAT32's limit for a single file is 4Gb)

Other than that i have no idea why it would do it.


Makes sense thank you for the help


----------



## MrSleepin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Planning on playing 3D soon, say how it goes for you










i think it looks awesome! very distracting! haha! i only played vs the AI and i was definitely slacking!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


i play in 120hz much smoother tried 3d but its a gimick at best.


i dont think it is a gimmick.. i like it! with the way technology is upgrading, i wouldnt doubt it if all tv's and monitors became 3d ones one day!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


3D SC2 would be so distracting to say the least.


definitely distracting! i found myself playing with the mouse wheel a lot!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I played a little SP in 3D, no reason to play with it in MP.


i might side with you on this one... havent tried multiplayer yet.. but i am sure it will be distracting!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I don't believe early pool in ZvP and ZvZ is cheese. It's a great way to apply pressure and stop FFE or droning. On maps like TDA, 6 pool's is very standard. Ofc, this could just be KR server


Gonna stick to my roots and say it's not cheese because you need an early pool in some MUs as Zerg or maybe you feel more comfortable with a faster pool. I used to 10 pool when I first started playing Zerg, now I just 15 hatch 14 pool because I feel comfortable enough to hold off rushes, etc.... Basically, I agree with Sangers.


----------



## clip+

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I don't believe early pool in ZvP and ZvZ is cheese. It's a great way to apply pressure and stop FFE or droning. On maps like TDA, 6 pool's is very standard. Ofc, this could just be KR server


Yeah I don't think it's cheese. It's a great openning in zvz and zvp.


----------



## Dr216

I 10 pool on pretty much every map for zvz larger maps I 12 or 13 pool but with the size of ladder maps thats only shipyard more or less.

zvp i feel comfortable going for a slightly later pool normally though i still rarely hatch first, i only do that when i know who im playing and how greedy they play.


----------



## 4dAlpha

Hey guys, fellow Toss player whose only in Silver league, but I'm curious as to your opinions of what race I should try next? I've been getting pretty frustrated with my play lately, because I just feel like that even with scouting, I can't always completely determine what a player is planning on doing, and that if I just choose to first produce one unit over another with my gateway it could completely cost me the game. It seems sort of frustrating to me that it always takes a good bit for toss to have an acceptable means of early defense compared to other races that doesn't completely sabotage my early tech progression or count as a cheese. It also seems daunting thinking about trying a new race when I spent a great deal of time learning about Protoss and opening mechanics and such just to spend the next couple weeks getting my a$$ kicked and moving down the ladder.

Tl;dr: Thinking about trying out a race other than protoss, silver league, intimidated about learning a new race while not in bronze, protoss feels incomplete (not me *****ing), opinions on which race I should try?


----------



## Alex132

I have lost 8 games in a row to cheese. (3v3 plat)

Sigh


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *4dAlpha*


Hey guys, fellow Toss player whose only in Silver league, but I'm curious as to your opinions of what race I should try next? I've been getting pretty frustrated with my play lately, because I just feel like that even with scouting, I can't always completely determine what a player is planning on doing, and that if I just choose to first produce one unit over another with my gateway it could completely cost me the game. It seems sort of frustrating to me that it always takes a good bit for toss to have an acceptable means of early defense compared to other races that doesn't completely sabotage my early tech progression or count as a cheese. It also seems daunting thinking about trying a new race when I spent a great deal of time learning about Protoss and opening mechanics and such just to spend the next couple weeks getting my a$$ kicked and moving down the ladder.

Tl;dr: Thinking about trying out a race other than protoss, silver league, intimidated about learning a new race while not in bronze, protoss feels incomplete (not me *****ing), opinions on which race I should try?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271162

Quote:



I have lost 8 games in a row to cheese. (3v3 plat)

Sigh


Cheese em back. Double 10p Helion is most popular, but my little favourite is 3 zerg 12x3 drone rush. 36 drones are so freaking OP, need nerf asap. U can't possibly win against that in shared maps.(provided ur micros are roughly equal







)


----------



## ntherblast

Could anyone help me figure out what this map is called
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auHfpX8BvKE[/ame]


----------



## MrSleepin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15168814*
> Could anyone help me figure out what this map is called
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auHfpX8BvKE


it's just a test map in custom games...


----------



## BountyHead

I hope I am not the only One watching IEM. The IdrA v Puma games were AMAZING!


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15169733*
> I hope I am not the only One watching IEM. The IdrA v Puma games were AMAZING!


I've been saying for ages that Puma was a piece of overrated trash. Idra played well, but he didn't play at a standard that would beat "top tier terrans."or even mid tier. Only thing Puma does decently in that matchup is multi drops. Trash split/focus fire, macro, pressure, engagement, reaction speed, and etc. I'd be surprised if he can actually beat code a zergs.

Only koreans Puma managed to win against are Protoss and we all know how TvP in korea was


----------



## BigFan

Nothing more satisfying than triple 6 pooling(one was 7 pool) against TTP and then transitioning into roaches/mutas after the damage is done







Got some BM to go with it as well


----------



## Sainesk

I be supreme commander!









man, that achievement took a while...


----------



## Alex132

I finally got the 40 kills with 1 unit achievement, actually it was 79 kills on 1 colossus and 65 on another. Too bad it wasn't on my main account xD


----------



## poroboszcz

My friend wrote a guide on PvZ. It's pretty decent for anyone having problems with the matchup:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271126


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


My friend wrote a guide on PvZ. It's pretty decent for anyone having problems with the matchup:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271126


Have any such for TvZ or TvP? I'm having hard time in anything other than TvT for some reason..


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


My friend wrote a guide on PvZ. It's pretty decent for anyone having problems with the matchup:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271126


Gotta say playing as Random is nice sometimes, it is a lot easier to know what your opponent is doing, how to counter it and the weakpoints in races.

The only problem with playing as Random means if someone does an orthodox build you probably will have never encountered it before, or if you have it's not likely to be as the race you're playing and thus makes it a lot harder to know what to do in that situation.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Have any such for TvZ or TvP? I'm having hard time in anything other than TvT for some reason..










Same goes for me ronnin, TvT is my best matchup as well.

Not sure what League you are in, but I've been having a lot of success in Plat with going 1 rax expand into Mech in TvP. I use a build that LzGamer made and I think it is still good even with the blue flame nerf. Don't have the exact build memorized, but if you're interested PM me and I'll send you it when I get home tonight.


----------



## BigFan

New MP Terran unit revealed for HoTS:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271979
Actually, it's just a silhouette


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigFan*


New MP Terran unit revealed for HoTS:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271979
Actually, it's just a silhouette










looks sorta like Stetman's medic suit from the campaign...

medic + medivac rush ftw


----------



## CloudWhite

Hey peeps, just joined OCN awhile ago. If any lower level players want some help with their game feel free to PM, I'm high diamond in 1s (working on getting to masters TT) and masters everything else.

EDIT - should probably add that I play protoss.


----------



## CravinR1

When I'm protoss I do ok PVP and PvT but can't stop the macro zerg

Now that I've been doing zerg my worse matchup is midgame protoss :/


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15183714*
> When *I'm protoss* I do ok PVP and PvT but *can't stop the macro zerg*
> 
> Now that I've been *doing zerg* my *worse matchup is midgame protoss* :/


ya, it kinda works like that







When most are playing a certain race and keep losing to another race, then they start to think that it has to be because of how OP or whatever term the other race is. Then it's only once they start to play the other race do they realize that it comes down to the other person's skills and not the race itself. i.e. I agree with you







, macro Zergs can be hard to stop once they get to 3 bases but I dunno if my worst MU is PvsZ


----------



## CravinR1

Last game i played as protoss vs zerg, I canoned and FE then went charge zealots, colossus, mothership and won lol (I was on 4 bases and denied his third 4 times with carriers/voids)


----------



## stars4002

late game protoss gets pretty hard to deal with vs other races imo since they could just warp in units to harrass expos so easily


----------



## BigFan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Last game i played as protoss vs zerg, I canoned and FE then went charge zealots, colossus, mothership and won lol (I was on 4 bases and denied his third 4 times with carriers/voids)


lol, I was reading this and once I read protoss vs zerg, I was almost confident you'll say that you lost XD


----------



## Sainesk

anyone see that recent Virus vs NesTea game, Tastosis were actually fairly funny...









"that'd be so hilarious like if I play the single player of Heart of the Swarm and Kerrigan's like not even in the game, and like nobody cares anymore, it's like all about MVP riding around in a battlecruiser trying to fight NesTea"


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan;15182352*
> New MP Terran unit revealed for HoTS:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=271979
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's just a silhouette


I think (hope), this is either a firebat or a unit with an ability to place mines, or both. I'd like to see hellions removed and this unit replacing them and, if it can't place mines, vultures addded as well. In any case I'm sure it's going to be OP.

Would also like to see reavers added for protoss.


----------



## DoomDash

Reavers yes plz


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15199130*
> Reavers yes plz


Nothx


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15199186*
> Nothx


You don't like skillful AoE units ?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15199245*
> You don't like skillful AoE units ?


AoE? umm this is SC2 ?__?


----------



## DoomDash

....


----------



## Alex132




----------



## DoomDash

Why wouldn't you want the reaver in? It was awesome and not scrubby unlike Colossus. We've gone over this a billion times. The Colossus was voted least creative unit in SCII even over units like the Corrupter lol.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15199400*
> Why wouldn't you want the reaver in? It was awesome and not scrubby unlike Colossus. We've gone over this a billion times. The Colossus was voted least creative unit in SCII even over units like the Corrupter lol.


Corruption is so stupid :I
I would be ok with reavers so long as their bombs make stuff catch on fire








Only reason I love the Colosus is because it burns stuff


----------



## DoomDash

Aesthetically the Colossus is awesome, I have no doubts about that. But like with cars Go > Show.


----------



## Sangers_low

Protoss mechanics are already a joke. Adding some micro intensive unit for them could only be a plus.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Protoss mechanics are already a joke. Adding some micro intensive unit for them could only be a plus.


Because blink stalkers, sentries, phoenixes and HTs are typical a-move units, while zerglings, banelings, roaches, hydras, corruptors, ultras, and broodlords require gosu micro skills? Oh wait.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15200185*
> Because blink stalkers, sentries, phoenixes and HTs are typical a-move units, while zerglings, banelings, roaches, hydras, corruptors, ultras, and broodlords require gosu micro skills? Oh wait.


Zerg isn't A move, it's right click.







.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Because blink stalkers, sentries, phoenixes and HTs are typical a-move units, while zerglings, banelings, roaches, hydras, corruptors, ultras, and broodlords require gosu micro skills? Oh wait.


This. Zergs just dont know how good they have it. Infestor is the only unit that needs micro...


----------



## Sainesk

so since when is 4 high diamonds vs 4 high masters = teams even...









anyway us newbie diamonds won lols...









speedlot + archon + void rays ftw


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


so since when is 4 high diamonds vs 4 high masters = teams even...









anyway us newbie diamonds won lols...

speedlot + archon + void rays ftw










Grats. I played my 1v1 placement matches _last_ August and just started playing again after a year of watching games and playing 4v4; currently 12-2







Looking for the promotion into Diamond soon.


----------



## yks

http://esports.ign.com/ipl/tv/splitscreen

WHY is that not being discussed?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Because blink stalkers, sentries, phoenixes and HTs are typical a-move units, while zerglings, banelings, roaches, hydras, corruptors, ultras, and broodlords require gosu micro skills? Oh wait.


I dun think u understand me. Mechanics =/= micro. Protoss can play with tunnel vision because their mechanics is so easy. It's also a reason why they suck so much in Korea atm.

For higher level players' average apm, it's ZERG > TERRAN > PROTOSS. 
http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php...highlight=race


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


This. Zergs just dont know how good they have it. Infestor is the only unit that needs micro...










Go play zerg.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271162


----------



## Genome852

Z micro is easy, except in ZvZ. Muta magic boxing isn't impressive at all, and besides that there's really just surrounding with lings, etc. What's difficult is microing while needing to inject larva, spread creep, etc. That's where the great players differentiate from the good ones IMO. There's just no micro tricks that make me go "wow" unlike marine splitting against banelings (I still remember that Kyrix vs MKP game from GSL2).

P... most A-move friendly race in the game. Zealot archon lol.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15201063*
> This. Zergs just dont know how good they have it. Infestor is the only unit that needs micro...


How is that so? To fight the P deathball since the patch you have to micro your loaded overlords to drop banelings while microing infestors to fungal the protoss ball in place while microing the rest of your attacking units. I've seen people do it but it doesn't look easy.


----------



## CravinR1

Terran is the most OP easy unbalanced race by far

Mules
Scan (no need to make detection)
Lifting buildings (Terran who loses base race is just bad)
Marines. Beginning high dps that can hit air
Tanks once sieged are ungodly
Marauders with slow

.... I accidentally picked random today vs Zerg. I got Terran and marines + banshees + 2 orbitals = easy win


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15218449*
> Terran is the most OP easy unbalanced race by far
> 
> Mules
> Scan (no need to make detection)
> Lifting buildings (Terran who loses base race is just bad)
> Marines. Beginning high dps that can hit air
> Tanks once sieged are ungodly
> Marauders with slow
> 
> .... I accidentally picked random today vs Zerg. I got Terran and marines + banshees + 2 orbitals = easy win


Could you possibly send me a replay?







I find it really hard to beat zerg most of the time. I think I have only 1 win vs zerg so far..


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15218449*
> Terran is the most OP easy unbalanced race by far
> 
> Mules
> Scan (no need to make detection)
> Lifting buildings (Terran who loses base race is just bad)
> Marines. Beginning high dps that can hit air
> Tanks once sieged are ungodly
> Marauders with slow
> 
> .... I accidentally picked random today vs Zerg. I got Terran and marines + banshees + 2 orbitals = easy win


And then you play against someone who builds an extra queen to kill your banshee harass, and 3 banelings to blow up your marines.

So you go marine tank medivac next time. The mutas keeps you in your base and the sling+bling infestor combo still devours your army when you decide to move out.

The one game you played doesn't indicate that Terran is OP, it just indicates that your opponent didn't scout and react to your build. An overlord spotting a starport at 6:30ish still gives zerg lots of time to throw an extra 2 queens up and perhaps a spore crawler if they're extra jumpy. Just like if I scout a zerg and see no expo I immediately bunker up and hold off expanding until their roach rush or baneling bust hits.

Generalizing that a certain race is the ezmode winrar doesn't make sense. Terran just feels more friendly because the mechanics behind macro are relatively simple (but very difficult to master)- build x mixture of buildings at x time and constantly produce units out of those buildings and call down MULEs- protoss has chrono boost to carefully use and gate timing to master and zerg has inject, droning vs units and expansion timing to master. Every race is different.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15210557*
> I dun think u understand me. Mechanics =/= micro. Protoss can play with tunnel vision because their mechanics is so easy. It's also a reason why they suck so much in Korea atm.
> 
> For higher level players' average apm, it's ZERG > TERRAN > PROTOSS.
> http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2300&highlight=race


Yeah, I'm not sure I understand. If protoss mechanics was so easy shouldn't they get like the highest win rate? Also micro involves mechanics as well as macro. What can be easier than having a single production building and a-moving (or right-clicking) all your units.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15218449*
> Terran is the most OP easy unbalanced race by far
> 
> Mules
> Scan (no need to make detection)
> Lifting buildings (Terran who loses base race is just bad)
> Marines. Beginning high dps that can hit air
> Tanks once sieged are ungodly
> Marauders with slow
> 
> .... I accidentally picked random today vs Zerg. I got Terran and marines + banshees + 2 orbitals = easy win


umm, winning a TvsZ doesn't imply that Terran is easy. Too bad you got a bad Zerg, would've loved to see how you would've felt had you went up against a macro Zerg. Believe me, you wouldn't think TvsZ is that easy especially after your first push is crushed


----------



## yks

Blinker, you get a NA account yet?


----------



## poroboszcz

No, I'm not sure I'll get one, at least not for a while. I barely have time to play on EU at the moment.


----------



## Sainesk

league lock soon...









hope I can make it to 4v4 masters (lols), if not, next season...


----------



## 13321G4

League lock? What are you talking about???


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RlndVt*


League lock? What are you talking about???


points freeze for end of season. makes no difference though as its your hidden mmr that determines which league your in if you would have been promoted in that time you will be after your placement match.


----------



## 13321G4

Oh ok, Thanks!

When is this expected end of season?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RlndVt*


Oh ok, Thanks!

When is this expected end of season?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blizzard Rep.*

The Season 3 lock will go into effect the week of October 10th. Season 3 will officially end, and Season 4 will begin on the week of October 24th.


well that's good to know, I thought there was no point playing during that time lol...


----------



## ntherblast

Apparently 4 gating is considered an all in. Was playing against a zerg and i 4 gated him and hes like "nice all in" i'm like do you see any probes? then hes like you only one based. So guys anyone who attacks early on one base is an all in


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15237300*
> Apparently 4 gating is considered an all in. Was playing against a zerg and i 4 gated him and hes like "nice all in" i'm like do you see any probes? then hes like you only one based. So guys anyone who attacks early on one base is an all in


You guys really care about all that?..


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15237300*
> Apparently 4 gating is considered an all in. Was playing against a zerg and i 4 gated him and hes like "nice all in" i'm like do you see any probes? then hes like you only one based. So guys anyone who attacks early on one base is an all in


Just because u use workers doesn't mean it's all in. 2 rax for example.

1 base 4 gate is all in. 2 base 4 gate(tvp) is a pressure.

Rly tho, why does ur build being "all in" discredits ur win? No zergs should lose to 4 gate these days. U see chrono being saved, u see stalker, throw down spines, easy win.


----------



## Sangers_low

http://esports.ign.com/ipl/tv/?starcraft2/live/ignproleague
Watch IPL
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IGN_ProLeague_Season_3/Main_Tournament
Results atm

If u missed the tournament, at least watch the finals >_>


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15237300*
> Apparently 4 gating is considered an all in. Was playing against a zerg and i 4 gated him and hes like "nice all in" i'm like do you see any probes? then hes like you only one based. So guys anyone who attacks early on one base is an all in


I dont understand it either. Just like a zerg sending a roach/ling attack off two base is always considered a "roach-ling all in".


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15238540*
> I dont understand it either. Just like a zerg sending a roach/ling attack off two base is always considered a "roach-ling all in".


Huh? It is. If it fails all your opponent does is counter and you should lose. More so goes for a 4 gate than 2 base roach ling all in


----------



## Fortunex

If you do zero damage with any attack and get countered, you should lose. If you do a lot of damage with that roach/ling attack, then he'll have a hard time countering, and seeing as you're zerg, and on the offence (so you're probably not losing drones), you're free to dump everything into units and should be able to fend off his counter and/or send in a follow up.


----------



## mfb412

http://www.mediafire.com/?cw889wl5rd4sl0m
May i have a little feedback on this? (i was the terran)
haven't played in about 2 weeks and i think it really hurt my quality


----------



## iambald

Oh look, ZvZ in IPL finals. http://esports.ign.com/ipl/tv/?starc...e/ignproleague


----------



## DoomDash

Missed all of IPL, fill me in aka cliff notes? Who the heck is lucky? This is the finals?


----------



## iambald

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...ain_Tournament

I didn't watch everything, but Lucky beat MMA and BoxeR. He's some random Korean Zerg. And yeah, this is grand finals.


----------



## Sainesk

the even match is a lie...


----------



## DoomDash

Stephano is pwning.


----------



## eosgreen

lucky is some random code b dude stephanos getting lucky but still playing well and just eventually capitalizing on the luck

first game he goes 11 over pool banes vs hatch first

second game he 14 pools a 10 pool and 3rd that was just a REALLLY REALLLY bad timing for lucky


----------



## HometownHero

Bunch of top tier terran players played like garbage. I'm looking at you MMA. If your hellion opening doesnt work, you dont do it two more times... MVP award for IPL3 goes to the roach-ling all in.


----------



## iambald

Stephano is a beast.


----------



## Sainesk

just had a game where all 3 of my teammates quit at the start, prob getting demoted on purpose for portrait farming...

this is making getting into 4v4 masters too easy...









not to even mention when I scout cheese and alert teammates they continue to tech up, and likely maphackers (actually nvm 749 wins /750 games is prob legit).


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15243234*
> just had a game where all 3 of my teammates quit at the start, prob getting demoted on purpose for portrait farming...
> 
> this is making getting into 4v4 masters too easy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to even mention when I scout cheese and alert teammates they continue to tech up, and likely maphackers (actually nvm 749 wins /750 games is prob legit).


Im convinced its impossible to get 4v4 masters with a completely random team. Have to limit it to one random player and get 2 people you know to help.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15205505*
> so since when is 4 high diamonds vs 4 high masters = teams even...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyway us newbie diamonds won lols...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> speedlot + archon + void rays ftw


Please, send me that rep... So i can check it out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yukss

I play protos, and i have a lot of fun killing zergs, for me is almost always kinda easy to kill zergs, and i go like this:

Pilon - 2 gates - ( probs probs .... ) pilon , doble gas - cibernetic - stargate - 2 phoenix - 2 centries and zelots to defend, and with phoenix snipe their overlords and queen, then 2 voids , = easy win. .. This build order is very efective to me, not always i do it exactly...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fortunex

I find that kind of build to be extremely easy to hold off, is an easy win for me almost every time a Toss opens stargate.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss;15246498*
> I play protos, and i have a lot of fun killing zergs, for me is almost always kinda easy to kill zergs, and i go like this:
> 
> Pilon - 2 gates - ( probs probs .... ) pilon , doble gas - cibernetic - stargate - 2 phoenix - 2 centries and zelots to defend, and with phoenix snipe their overlords and queen, then 2 voids , = easy win. .. This build order is very efective to me, not always i do it exactly...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any competent Zerg will throw down at least one spore crawler at each of his bases if you deny scouting or let the Zerg spot the Stargate.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;15246881*
> Any competent Zerg will throw down at least one spore crawler at each of his bases if you deny scouting or let the Zerg spot the Stargate.


Spore crawler requires evolution chamber, and if you tigth the timings you could do that push easily, 2 voids take out 1 spore c for sure

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss;15247295*
> Spore crawler requires evolution chamber, and if you tigth the timings you could do that push easily, 2 voids take out 1 spore c for sure
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure about others, but I don't see that build working against me. One base stargate is pretty much all-in, and even though i'd only have one spore per each base when I first scout ur VR, i'd obviously build more and 2 voids can't kill 3 spores going up simultaneously even though u can kill the preexisting spore and the queen. Not to mention one would build spores earlier when they see a protoss sticking on one base with two gas and no indication of gateway all in.

Personally, I like going gateway unit heavy after FFE when I play PvZ. 8 gate is so much fun :3


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss;15247295*
> Spore crawler requires evolution chamber, and if you tigth the timings you could do that push easily, 2 voids take out 1 spore c for sure
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If he has Queens it won't matter though. Obviously they throw down an Evo chamber if they don't know what you're building


----------



## Yukss

Not all build orders always works, this is only one of my BO, all depends of the enemy raze and their skills, sometime i use early DT againts zergs and it works perfectly, there was a match betwen liquidhuk vs moon (PvZ) and moon didn"t got a lair and couldn"t spot 2 DTs and easily lost with simple build... All is relative.

I have lost severals games cuz i forget the basics as a protos..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr216

stargate pressure is effective just so long as you know when to back off, you dont have to do massive econ damage and kill the Z even if all you do is clear out the ovies and take map control you come out ahead.

the important thing is to keep the voids alive and to not over commit else it does become something of an all in.


----------



## ntherblast

How do people gather all there workers ontop of each other? For example I have seen players that get attacked by lings early on and run their workers away then make them all stand on top of each other then they spread out quickly so that they surround the lings. Do you just click in one spot rapidly?


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## CravinR1

Zerg Siege Tank no doubt


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15248445*
> How do people gather all there workers ontop of each other? For example I have seen players that get attacked by lings early on and run their workers away then make them all stand on top of each other then they spread out quickly so that they surround the lings. Do you just click in one spot rapidly?


They do a hold position or micro them


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15248445*
> How do people gather all there workers ontop of each other? For example I have seen players that get attacked by lings early on and run their workers away then make them all stand on top of each other then they spread out quickly so that they surround the lings. Do you just click in one spot rapidly?


mineral walking.

When a worker is clicked onto a mineral patch they "phase" through any units in the way including but not limited too other workers, so if you send them all to the same patch then move them they all stack up together, at which point you want to make them attack a Ling for a perfect surround rinse repeat.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;15249472*
> mineral walking.
> 
> When a worker is clicked onto a mineral patch they "phase" through any units in the way including but not limited too other workers, so if you send them all to the same patch then move them they all stack up together, at which point you want to make them attack a Ling for a perfect surround rinse repeat.


thanks


----------



## CravinR1

Remember the mineral walking is also useful for scouting

If a protoss has a zealot hold positioned in a choke that lings can't get through, you can take a drone and click on one of his mineral patches and the drone "phases" through the hold positioned zealot to give you scouting.

A single zealot can't kill a drone that is phasing through (though the drone WILL take damage), but if there is a stalker or another zealot you'll lose the drone, but the scouting is most likely worth the cost of a drone


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*












reminds me of a warhammer tyranid tyrant guard.

Lower tier damage absorber ftw.... + if it could lower it's shell or whatever on it's back to take even less damage/heal itself like a tyrant guard that would make me


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


reminds me of a warhammer tyranid tyrant guard.

Lower tier damage absorber ftw.... + if it could lower it's shell or whatever on it's back to take even less damage/heal itself like a tyrant guard that would make me










because you know like the roach isnt a low tier damage soak......last thing Z needs is more low tier units, it needs fleshing out in the mid game.

Unless ofc its a tier 1 ground unit that can shoot air.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

It's a flamefestor. It spits out infested blue flame hellions.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


because you know like the roach isnt a low tier damage soak......


yea roaches totally save zerg's slings/blings from siege tanks, or from a P player who's discovered force fields...


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


yea roaches totally save zerg's slings/blings from siege tanks, or from a P player who's discovered force fields...










Seige tanks are not low tier units they are mid tier units. Z low teir units are fine its the mid teir (or lack there of) that needs adressing.

as for force feild short of giving Z a low tier massive unit your stuck with them learn to deal


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Z low teir units are fine its the mid teir


yea, so throw in something mid tier that has priority getting hit and reduces or prevents splash damage from attacks that hit it to units very very close to it and it'll stop "i'll just move half my tanks forward and herp derp to victory".

the horror of actually having to micro siege tanks...


----------



## advntk

Feel free to add me to practice anyone on here, I'd love to game with OCN.


----------



## HometownHero

Everyone should set their client to auto-join the "overclock.net" chat channel so its easier to find people to play with/against. I'm at the stage where I am about to move out of plat to diamond and I need to work on pretty much all my matchups.


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Everyone should set their client to auto-join the "overclock.net" chat channel so its easier to find people to play with/against. I'm at the stage where I am about to move out of plat to diamond and I need to work on pretty much all my matchups.


Exact same situation


----------



## gonX

Don't forget the leagues are locked now, so you can't get promoted or demoted for this season. Your hidden MMR still changes, so it's still beneficial for your stats to play games.

Also, Destiny joins QxG.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Don't forget the leagues are locked now, so you can't get promoted or demoted for this season. Your hidden MMR still changes, so it's still beneficial for your stats to play games.

Also, Destiny joins QxG.


Totally forgot the league lock started. Need to get that MMR to the point where I place Diamond when the new season starts.


----------



## QuadDamage

Add me QuadDamage 454


----------



## Hazzeedayz

im kinda stoked the leagues are locked...been outa the game for a bit and just got back together with a few friends i used to play with....shuld have nice stress-free pratice time now


----------



## ntherblast

Wait so every 2 months they will restart seasons? And of those 8 weeks 2 of them will be locked weeks? Why not 1 week for a lockout?


----------



## ablearcher

Your performance sitll affects your MMR, which is a major part in determining which leauge you will be placed in. So all in all, your performance still matters, just no leauge changes will occur until after the freeze.


----------



## l337sft

IPL3 was so awesome, i hope theyres more tournaments in atlantic city, i live on the island right next to it


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15266982*
> Wait so every 2 months they will restart seasons? And of those 8 weeks 2 of them will be locked weeks? Why not 1 week for a lockout?


Its supposed to promote inter-league competition within your division and get you to drain your bonus pool. Personally, I dont think anyone puts forth extra effort to compete just because your league is locked.


----------



## Fortunex

I think I'mma switch to Terran for S4, tired of having to be _miles_ better than my opponent to beat them.


----------



## CravinR1

Here is a very very strong PvP build, better and faster than a traditional 4 gate

I even used it to beat a canon rush

  
 You Tube


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Here is a very very strong PvP build, better and faster than a traditional 4 gate

I even used it to beat a canon rush

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlO-oUaMGFs


Traditional 4 gate has 6 stalkers and 1 zealot around 5:40 at which point you don't have a single unit. At 6:05 when you warp-in your zealots a second wave of 4 gate units will be ready making it your 4 zealots against 6 stalkers and 5 zealots. I don't know how it's better and faster.

If you really want to go that all-in you can try 8gate 11 gas 11 core 16 probes 4 gate with wg research finished around 5:00.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


I think I'mma switch to Terran for S4, tired of having to be _miles_ better than my opponent to beat them.


Uh huh... and what race do you play now?


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Traditional 4 gate has 6 stalkers and 1 zealot around 5:40 at which point you don't have a single unit. At 6:05 when you warp-in your zealots a second wave of 4 gate units will be ready making it your 4 zealots against 6 stalkers and 5 zealots. I don't know how it's better and faster.

If you really want to go that all-in you can try 8gate 11 gas 11 core 16 probes 4 gate with wg research finished around 5:00.


Do proxy 2 gate or cannon rush. EzEz

IMHappy vs SlayerSCoca was so brutal








4T4T4T gotta love the GomTvT


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15274910*
> Uh huh... and what race do you play now?


Zerg obviously


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15276134*
> Zerg obviously


Thought so. The grass is always greener..


----------



## DoomDash

New Protoss HotS unit teasted:


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15274281*
> Traditional 4 gate has 6 stalkers and 1 zealot around 5:40 at which point you don't have a single unit. At 6:05 when you warp-in your zealots a second wave of 4 gate units will be ready making it your 4 zealots against 6 stalkers and 5 zealots. I don't know how it's better and faster.
> 
> If you really want to go that all-in you can try 8gate 11 gas 11 core 16 probes 4 gate with wg research finished around 5:00.


I've never seen a traditional 20 probe 4 gate have 6 stalkers and 5 zealots by 6 min, especially with him pulling probes to hit pylons. I'm 3-0 with this strat in gold/platinum
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15275445*
> Do proxy 2 gate or cannon rush. EzEz
> 
> IMHappy vs SlayerSCoca was so brutal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4T4T4T gotta love the GomTvT


I actually beat a guy who was canon rushing me (he had to start on low ground due to me intercepting his probes) he got 4 canons, but I destroyed his economy and he didn't make it to my nexus


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15276376*
> Thought so. The grass is always greener..


In platinum level, most agree zerg is the hardest race to play.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=271162
Quote:


> I actually beat a guy who was canon rushing me (he had to start on low ground due to me intercepting his probes) he got 4 canons, but I destroyed his economy and he didn't make it to my nexus


No cheese is unstoppable... except for my secret TvZ cheese


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15277483*
> New Protoss HotS unit teasted:


I'm switching to Protoss after HotS


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15278328*
> I'm switching to Protoss after HotS


HotS? Hold on to Sex? Help out the Seals ?


----------



## QuadDamage

Heart of the swarm = HOTS the expo that is coming for SC 2 for Zerg Story


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;15278460*
> Heart of the swarm = HOTS the expo that is coming for SC 2 for Zerg Story


----------



## QuadDamage

^^ hard to tell online forum, u feel better about yourself slugger?


----------



## Ruckol1

toss so ******* imbalanced lol. wiped 3 200/200 armies that were 3/2 **** this game


----------



## 13321G4

Got the replays for us?


----------



## DoomDash

Sometimes I miss the feeling of a siege tank bombing my enemies from range 13, and I miss stutter stepping my marines.


----------



## Mwarren

Yea well to be honest I don't miss anything about SC2. It got too boring since creative play isn't very viable and each matchup really only has one or two viable play styles.


----------



## Fortunex

Creative play is totally viable in custom matches or bronze league, or once you get good and know what makes up a good strategy.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15285844*
> Creative play is totally viable in custom matches or bronze league, or once you get good and know what makes up a good strategy.


Not so much when you are in masters, but to a certain extent I think you can be creative.


----------



## Fortunex

Once you get a good understanding of the game and why certain strategies work, you can start coming up with new ones. See: Spanishiwa's no-gas-until-40-supply, I believe Destiny's ling/infestor rush vs FFE toss, etc.


----------



## DoomDash

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmFmLpqN-0g&[/ame]


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15285730*
> Yea well to be honest I don't miss anything about SC2. It got too boring since creative play isn't very viable and each matchup really only has one or two viable play styles.


Play random and do weird cheese/builds. Pretty fun imo

An example for a terran in 4 player map verses Protoss or Terran

1. Block ur ramp with 2 supply+rax
2. scout with TWO scvs
3. 1 scv scouts the opponent, the other scv expands on the opposite starting position
4.In ur expansion, build production and supply
5. When opponent scouts/scans u, pull all ur scvs and pretend to all in.
6. Fake scv-allin, while u transfer all ur scvs to the OTHER base which has all the production
7.Lift ur CC and move to the NATURAL of ur expo
8.The opponent will expect a cheese/all in and get defenses up. After a bit, if he believes u stopped all-ining because u got scouted, he'll try to counter and attack.
9. When u scout the opponent's forces moving forward, use the units in ur EXPO and base trade.
10. Opponent destroys the wall, but sees nothing and u destroy the opponent's base.

GG.

I've been doing all sorts of weird stuff in the ladder as random. Still masters


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15288803*
> Play random and do weird cheese/builds. Pretty fun imo
> 
> An example for a terran in 4 player map verses Protoss or Terran
> 
> 1. Block ur ramp with 2 supply+rax
> 2. scout with TWO scvs
> 3. 1 scv scouts the opponent, the other scv expands on the opposite starting position
> 4.In ur expansion, build production and supply
> 5. When opponent scouts/scans u, pull all ur scvs and pretend to all in.
> 6. Fake scv-allin, while u transfer all ur scvs to the OTHER base which has all the production
> 7.Lift ur CC and move to the NATURAL of ur expo
> 8.The opponent will expect a cheese/all in and get defenses up. After a bit, if he believes u stopped all-ining because u got scouted, he'll try to counter and attack.
> 9. When u scout the opponent's forces moving forward, use the units in ur EXPO and base trade.
> 10. Opponent destroys the wall, but sees nothing and u destroy the opponent's base.
> 
> GG.
> 
> I've been doing all sorts of weird stuff in the ladder as random. Still masters


That actually does sound like fun!









Got a replay of you doing that?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15288803*
> Play random and do weird cheese/builds. Pretty fun imo
> 
> An example for a terran in 4 player map verses Protoss or Terran
> 
> 1. Block ur ramp with 2 supply+rax
> 2. scout with TWO scvs
> 3. 1 scv scouts the opponent, the other scv expands on the opposite starting position
> 4.In ur expansion, build production and supply
> 5. When opponent scouts/scans u, pull all ur scvs and pretend to all in.
> 6. Fake scv-allin, while u transfer all ur scvs to the OTHER base which has all the production
> 7.Lift ur CC and move to the NATURAL of ur expo
> 8.The opponent will expect a cheese/all in and get defenses up. After a bit, if he believes u stopped all-ining because u got scouted, he'll try to counter and attack.
> 9. When u scout the opponent's forces moving forward, use the units in ur EXPO and base trade.
> 10. Opponent destroys the wall, but sees nothing and u destroy the opponent's base.
> 
> GG.
> 
> I've been doing all sorts of weird stuff in the ladder as random. Still masters


I don't think that would works against prot. Not unless the other player is a total newb.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15289386*
> I don't think that would works against prot. Not unless the other player is a total newb.


It's highly luck based, cause an early attack would dismantle it. I tried it 5 times, worked 3, so it's not too bad







. Incredibly fun to see the opponent's reaction tho







. Also, I think this build is better for higher leagues, because of their tendencies to counter after "fake all-in" and go for macro games.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15289544*
> It's highly luck based, cause an early attack would dismantle it. I tried it 5 times, worked 3, so it's not too bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Incredibly fun to see the opponent's reaction tho
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Also, I think this build is better for higher leagues, because of their tendencies to counter after "fake all-in" and go for macro games.


I wouldn't know.. I'm starting to believe that SC2 is not the game for me. Darn, I was so good in WC3, but SC2 just doesn't work well for me...

Most probably I'll be waving ya byebye soon


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15289662*
> I wouldn't know.. I'm starting to believe that SC2 is not the game for me. Darn, I was so good in WC3, but SC2 just doesn't work well for me...
> 
> Most probably I'll be waving ya byebye soon


That's kinda how I felt. So many bs crap in the ladder, and blizzard's inability or unwillingness to fix them pissed me off a lot







. So these days, I just play as random and do all sorts of weird all-ins.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


That's kinda how I felt. So many bs crap in the ladder, and blizzard's inability or unwillingness to fix them pissed me off a lot







. So these days, I just play as random and do all sorts of weird all-ins.


I suppose there isnt a "cheese-proof ladder build" but there are some that are pretty close. It just comes down to effective scouting and knowing how to read the information you get. The reading part gets easier the more sc2 you play/watch.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


In platinum level, most agree zerg is the hardest race to play. 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=271162


I would tend to agree too, but I dont think your zerg skill has to be "miles ahead" of your opponent to win.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


I would tend to agree too, but I dont think your zerg skill has to be "miles ahead" of your opponent to win.


I think it does, at least at my level. Terran and Toss are soo easy in comparison.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


I think it does, at least at my level. Terran and Toss are soo easy in comparison.


What rank are you? At lower levels, toss and terran can have more success by just turtling and maxing their army than a zerg. A zerg deathball is probably the weakest. The most successful zergs are the ones that are relentless with their harass and never let their units idle. Examples of this: July, DRG, Nestea, Nerchio and more recently, Stephano. So I guess I agree in terms of turtling and maxing, as most low level players tend to do this.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15290034*
> I suppose there isnt a "cheese-proof ladder build" but there are some that are pretty close. It just comes down to effective scouting and knowing how to read the information you get. The reading part gets easier the more sc2 you play/watch.
> 
> I would tend to agree too, but I dont think your zerg skill has to be "miles ahead" of your opponent to win.


This is because playing zerg requires good game sense which lower level players don't have. You actually have to understand the game to play zerg, while terran and protoss can rely on timing attacks and gimmicky builds to win. Zerg mechanics is super easy though, so once you have good decision making you'll do well. Destiny made diamond with zerg using mass queens.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15290629*
> This is because playing zerg requires good game sense which lower level players don't have. You actually have to understand the game to play zerg, while terran and protoss can rely on timing attacks and gimmicky builds to win. Zerg mechanics is super easy though, so once you have good decision making you'll do well. Destiny made diamond with zerg using mass queens.


Again!!! Mechanics =/=Micro

Mechanics difficulty: Zerg > Terran > Protoss
Micro difficulty: Terran > Protoss > Zerg

Mechanics is stuff like warp gate, creap/larva, mules, production, etc


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Again!!! Mechanics =/=Micro

Mechanics difficulty: Zerg > Terran > Protoss
Micro difficulty: Terran > Protoss > Zerg

Mechanics is stuff like warp gate, creap/larva, mules, production, etc


Nope

Mechanics: Zerg > Protoss > Terran

cuz larva inject and creep spread are difficult, chonoboost and warpgate are harder than mule. And before you say LOL DERPGATE remember that Terran/Zerg can macro without moving their camera away, Toss has to find a power source, and click the units down, which in a game of seconds, take a lot more time than other races.

Micro Difficulty: Protoss > Terran > Zerg

Toss has the move intensive micro since you have many casters and unit positions. Zealots must always be in front and not suicide charge. Guardian Shield and Forcefield. Blink. Storm/Feedback and then merging archons archons. Observers. Pheonix. Warp Prisms. Everything about toss requires really precise micro.

Terran only has stim kite and marine splitting really and the former is easy. Ghost has light micro, vikings have light micro.

Zerg has almost no micro except ling surrounds and muta control. Infestors dont really require much micro


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Mechanics difficulty: Zerg > Terran > Protoss
Micro difficulty: Terran > Protoss > Zerg


This is correct IMO. Sloppy the man you don't really understand how much work goes into Terran micro lol.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


This is correct IMO. Sloppy the man you don't really understand how much work goes into Terran micro lol.


Thats not a good argument. Give any examples of terran micro. Maybe banshee stutter step is the only thing I forgot.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Nope

Mechanics: Zerg > Protoss > Terran

cuz larva inject and creep spread are difficult, chonoboost and warpgate are harder than mule. And before you say LOL DERPGATE remember that Terran/Zerg can macro without moving their camera away, Toss has to find a power source, and click the units down, which in a game of seconds, take a lot more time than other races.

Micro Difficulty: Protoss > Terran > Zerg

Toss has the move intensive micro since you have many casters and unit positions. Zealots must always be in front and not suicide charge. Guardian Shield and Forcefield. Blink. Storm/Feedback and then merging archons archons. Observers. Pheonix. Warp Prisms. Everything about toss requires really precise micro.

Terran only has stim kite and marine splitting really and the former is easy. Ghost has light micro, vikings have light micro.

Zerg has almost no micro except ling surrounds and muta control. Infestors dont really require much micro


The only terran units that need micro are rines, vikings, and ghosts? And zerg has no micro?


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


The only terran units that need micro are rines, vikings, and ghosts? And zerg has no micro?











Pls name some then.


----------



## rhed5

sovern, what happened to going pro? or even gm?


----------



## Anti!!

Zerg has no micro? Infestors require no micro? Hmm why do they die then if not microed properly? You said you zealots require micro but that's only positional micro. I dare say if infestors require no micro, neither do zealots.

Another form of Zerg micro is microing lings away from your surrounded zealot as to not let them be last shotted.

If another person says my beloved Zerg has no micro i'm gonna slit my wrists.

Edit. When is the last time you watched a game between IMMVP and MMA? You will have plenty of examples.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Thats not a good argument. Give any examples of terran micro. Maybe banshee stutter step is the only thing I forgot.


You can find plenty of examples in this thread, but honestly its pretty common knowledge so I won't waste my time.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Anti!!*


Zerg has no micro? Infestors require no micro? Hmm why do they die then if not microed properly? You said you zealots require micro but that's only positional micro. I dare say if infestors require no micro, neither do zealots.

Another form of Zerg micro is microing lings away from your surrounded zealot as to not let them be last shotted.

If another person says my beloved Zerg has no micro i'm gonna slit my wrists.

Edit. When is the last time you watched a game between IMMVP and MMA? You will have plenty of examples.


Charge will go off if their is an enemy in range which means hold position or always keeping them moving or else u split ur army. That or you have to toggle charge.

Microing a melee unit isnt really zerg specific, cuz im microing that zealot at the same time. So yeh there is a lot of generic micro but overall zerg is A move with the exception of mutalisks. To be good at zerg you have to able to macro properly and have the right composition. But since zerg has so many units each unit doesnt really matter so microing isnt as effective. Also Zerg only has one caster the infestor which is very easy to use.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


You can find plenty of examples in this thread, but honestly its pretty common knowledge so I won't waste my time.


So what ur saying is your wrong. Gotcha.


----------



## DoomDash

What I am saying is there are many pages of me arguing the same thing in this thread and I don't feel like explaining it all over again when your original analysis of Terran micro was so simple and did not cover much at all, I won't waste my time. If you are that interested there are plenty of posts related to that in this thread, but you'll find that almost all of them from anyone from Master league will not agree with you, myself included. Protoss does come in second though, so don't feel bad.

But if you want some cliffs - Terran micro is the most rewarding, and least forgiving.


----------



## yks

You guys don't know what mechanics are.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You guys don't know what mechanics are.


lol, +1


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


lol, +1










How is that plus one worthy? yks knows less about mechanics than me or Sangers that's for sure.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What I am saying is there are many pages of me arguing the same thing in this thread and I don't feel like explaining it all over again when your original analysis of Terran micro was so simple and did not cover much at all, I won't waste my time. If you are that interested there are plenty of posts related to that in this thread, but you'll find that almost all of them from anyone from Master league will not agree with you, myself included. Protoss does come in second though, so don't feel bad.

But if you want some cliffs - Terran micro is the most rewarding, and least forgiving.


Stim kiting is super easy and super forgiving. The only terran micro thats hard is marine micro esp vs banelings. Otherwise its 1atlol.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You guys don't know what mechanics are.


Mechanics is interfacing with the game OR certain abilities of each race that arent unit specific usually like warpgate. Give me rep now kthx.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Stim kiting is super easy and super forgiving. The only terran micro thats hard is marine micro esp vs banelings. Otherwise its 1atlol.


Woke up to see IEM, I see this >_>

If u put it that way, u can also say Protoss can a-move, and only protoss micro is sentries and stalkers. Unlike marine micro, they are easy.

The needed micro standards for leagues are different, and I'm speaking from KR mid master level(switched to Random), where terran micro(especially against Z) is far more unforgiving than protoss. The league that finds blink stalker micro hard is platinum.

Zerg actually requires more micro than u guys think. Muta micro, baneling split, zergling surround, burrowed/dropping banelings, etc. I don't think u need to do more than 1A in lower leagues, but above things are needed to compete in higher level.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Stim kiting is super easy and super forgiving. The only terran micro thats hard is marine micro esp vs banelings. Otherwise its 1atlol.


What league are you? As Sangers said he is mid-master on Korea, and I am easily mid-high Masters NA ( Unknown on Korea, though I am 3-0 on korea







).

For Sangers, I think Zerg is hard. I don't think it's the specific micro they have to do that's hard, but the amount of APM to do it all at once while still macroing that's hard.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


You guys don't know what mechanics are.


I thought we're talking about micro...?

Quote:



Stim kiting is super easy and super forgiving. The only terran micro thats hard is marine micro esp vs banelings. Otherwise its 1atlol.


Focus firing's a serious pain. Immortal/stalker focus firing is rly easy compared to marine/tank focus firing, cause their targets are stationary.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


What league are you? As Sangers said he is mid-master on Korea, and I am easily mid-high Masters NA ( Unknown on Korea, though I am 3-0 on korea







).

For Sangers, I think Zerg is hard. I don't think it's the specific micro they have to do that's hard, but the amount of APM to do it all at once while still macroing that's hard.


I think zerg's boring to play on the ladder. The only fun thing u can do imo, is mass banelings and A-move into nexus :/

I have so many fun cheeses with terran and protoss









EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ESL_TV <--- What i woke up at 2:30am for







IMO, easy money for TOP/DRG.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


Woke up to see IEM, I see this >_>

If u put it that way, u can also say Protoss can a-move, and only protoss micro is sentries and stalkers. Unlike marine micro, they are easy.

The needed micro standards for leagues are different, and I'm speaking from KR mid master level(switched to Random), where terran micro(especially against Z) is far more unforgiving than protoss. The league that finds blink stalker micro hard is platinum.

Zerg actually requires more micro than u guys think. Muta micro, baneling split, zergling surround, burrowed/dropping banelings, etc. I don't think u need to do more than 1A in lower leagues, but above things are needed to compete in higher level.


I said Terran has to micro marines but the rest of their micro is relatively easy. Protoss has to micro every unit and yeh blink isnt too hard, but making perfect forcefields and HT micro along with the 50 other things toss has to do in battle are hard.

I listed that zerg micro iono if ur responding to me or not. But generally zerg is still A move.

Also Terran OP.

Also I was mid/high masters S1 but pvp rng ******ry made me quit. I just picked up the game again a few days ago and Im having a hard time trying to make myself play 12hrs of pure games everyday. Guess I just gotta work up my endurance.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sangers_low*


I thought we're talking about micro...?

Focus firing's a serious pain. Immortal/stalker focus firing is rly easy compared to marine/tank focus firing, cause their targets are stationary.


ur targets are bigger and also 111 OP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Also Terran OP.


Can't take you seriously.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


ur targets are bigger and also 111 OP.


We can't argue with your high level of game mechanics and reasoning. Your arguments would be better served here.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Can't take you seriously.


GSL Code S.

Cant take you seriously.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


We can't argue with your high level of game mechanics and reasoning. Your arguments would be better served here.


Keep making random comments and not adding anything to the discussion. Look at what he wrote too, reading is gud ok bro.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Keep making random comments and not adding anything to the discussion. Look at what he wrote too, reading is gud ok bro.


You making a bunch of asinine comments without explaining what you mean does not constitute a discussion.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


You making a bunch of asinine comments without explaining what you mean does not constitute a discussion.


One liners are one line.


----------



## ronnin426850

Ok, can some clarify for me - what Is mechanics afterall, cuz I'm confused already.

Also terran is far from OP. Races are in good balance IMO.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


GSL Code S.

Cant take you seriously.












Are you just saying random things that have no coherence at all?

Rainbow Dash is best pony.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Ok, can some clarify for me - what Is mechanics afterall, cuz I'm confused already.

Also terran is far from OP. Races are in good balance IMO.


Basically people cry when they lose lots of 1v1 games to the same tactics and also when in tourneys the % of a race being used is higher


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman;15293326*
> GSL Code S.
> 
> Cant take you seriously.


Terran must have been OP in BW too because they were always the most dominate in that game excluding a few points in time here and there. Yet everyone considers it balanced. Strange how BW was dominated by mainly S class Terran players and SCII is as well, yet people see no correlation.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15294092*
> Basically people cry when they lose lots of 1v1 games to the same tactics and also when in tourneys the % of a race being used is higher


Judging which races are in GSL's more is not a good way of judging their balance.
Then we would really need to nerf NesTea


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15293541*
> Ok, can some clarify for me - what Is mechanics afterall, cuz I'm confused already.


Mechanics means interacting with the game's interface. In basic terms mechanics means just pressing buttons, using your mouse and watching the screen.

I believe Zerg has the easiest mechanics compared to other races, because to perform similar tasks in the game they require relatively lower number of actions through the interface. For example to produce a bunch of workers, increase supply cap and create some army units, all Zerg has to do, in terms of mechanics is press the following keys on the keyboard: 4,s,d,d,d,v,r,r,r,z,z,z,z.

A terran player to accomplish the same thing needs to press the following buttons: 5,a,a,a,a,6,s,7,d,4,s, then move his camera to his base, select an SCV, press b, s, click somewhere to build a depot and then shift click on the minerals to send SCV back to mining.

A protoss player that wants to do the same has to: move his camera to the area near pylon, press w, several times press s, followed by clicking on the area powered by the pylon, press, 6,c, 4, e, move his camera again to his base, select a probe, press b, e, click on the ground, shift, click on the minerals.

This are examples of basic mechanics required to macro. Example of micro mechanics is stutter stepping, where player presses his mouse and keyboard keys at certain intervals or marine splitting, which requires precise and fast mouse clicks and movements. Similarly a zerg player performing a right click on enemy units also uses mechanics.

Of course mechanical difficulty is also related to strategy. For example protoss massing units on 3 bases and then attack-moving all his army into enemy base doesn't require decent mechanics, while terran using multi-pronged attacks with drops while macroing at the same time requires high mechanical skills. On average though, taking into account various aspects of the game and most popular strategies and tactics, zerg could easily by played with an x-box controller.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15294365*
> Mechanics means interacting with the game's interface. In basic terms mechanics means just pressing buttons, using your mouse and watching the screen.
> 
> I believe Zerg has the easiest mechanics compared to other races, because to perform similar tasks in the game they require relatively lower number of actions through the interface. For example to produce a bunch of workers, increase supply cap and create some army units, all Zerg has to do, in terms of mechanics is press the following keys on the keyboard: 4,s,d,d,d,v,r,r,r,z,z,z,z.
> 
> A terran player to accomplish the same thing needs to press the following buttons: 5,a,a,a,a,6,s,7,d,4,s, then move his camera to his base, select an SCV, press b, s, click somewhere to build a depot and then shift click on the minerals to send SCV back to mining.
> 
> A protoss player that wants to do the same has to: move his camera to the area near pylon, press w, several times press s, followed by clicking on the area powered by the pylon, press, 6,c, 4, e, move his camera again to his base, select a probe, press b, e, click on the ground, shift, click on the minerals.
> 
> This are examples of basic mechanics required to macro. Example of micro mechanics is stutter stepping, where player presses his mouse and keyboard keys at certain intervals or marine splitting, which requires precise and fast mouse clicks and movements. Similarly a zerg player performing a right click on enemy units also uses mechanics.
> 
> Of course mechanical difficulty is also related to strategy. For example protoss massing units on 3 bases and then attack-moving all his army into enemy base doesn't require decent mechanics, while terran using multi-pronged attacks with drops while macroing at the same time requires high mechanical skills. On average though, taking into account various aspects of the game and most popular strategies and tactics, zerg could easily by played with an x-box controller.


That's a lot of text for trolling... I have to ask. Are you being srs? LOL


----------



## roberT_

executing a tank marine push vs. zerg near/on the creep would be a good example of terran micro


----------



## mfb412

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15295226*
> executing a tank marine push vs. zerg near/on the creep would be a good example of terran micro


Ahem.
[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15293541*
> Ok, can some clarify for me - what Is mechanics afterall, cuz I'm confused already.
> 
> Also terran is far from OP. Races are in good balance IMO.


Mechanics are how you look at and interact with the game.

Checking your minimap and resources, how precise/fast you are with your actions, your multitasking ability, etc.

At least that's my understanding of it.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfb412;15297198*
> Ahem.


I thought Happy plays Zerg, or is this a different Happy, or is he just showing off how easily he pwns banelings as T?


----------



## yks

Yeah, you guys really don't know what mechanics are.

Mechanics are how you interact with the game via hotkeys, camera, and mouse. The physical act.

People with superior mechanics are people who efficiently prioritize where their cameras are at any given time. This also includes the speed of which they switch camera positions, as well as determining which camera locations have a higher priority than others.

When people who actually know what mechanics are (because people use the term incorrectly all the time) and they are talking about race mechanics, they are referring to the unique-ness each race requires in their camera priorities.

For Zergs, it is larva inject and creep spread. And how you prioritize those camera positions with other non-race mechanics

For Protoss, it is chronoboost and warp-ins. And how you prioritize those cameras positions with other non-race mechanics.

For Terran, it is using your Oribital. And how you prioritize those cameras positions with other non-race mechanics.

And obviously, each race has their own units that require their own hotkey usage/camera priorities. ie. drops, spellcasters, etc. For example: Stutter stepping/Marine splitting, in-game it is called your micro, that is what you'll say if you cast/commentate. But the *PHYSICAL* act of actually doing it (clicking with your mouse and pressing attack move on your keyboard) is called your mechanics.

//

And I see Doom is still a bias elitist that goes off rank rather than knowledge.


----------



## yks

Since yesterday you guys were talking about which race has harder mechanics, my 2 cents would be:

Zerg is the most taxing on using the keyboard/mouse. I simply feel they have to press and click more sh.t than the other races. (I am not talking about the difficulty of pressing/clicking but rather the FREQUENCY in which they need to press/click)

And I feel Protoss require the LEAST use of the keyboard/mouse compared to the other 2, but the camera usage and priority is more taxing/important than the others.

And Terran, for me, is a mixture of the other two races but to a lesser extent. They have to press/click more than Protoss but less than Zerg. And camera priorities/importance is in the middle.

So the difficulty is all based on preference to me. Some people are better at efficiently using their hotkeys and mouse. Some people are better at using their camera to look at the right sh.t and the right time.

But if I had to pick one, I would pick Terran as being the hardest mechanically. For reasons I'm too lazy to type.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15298585*
> I thought Happy plays Zerg, or is this a different Happy, or is he just showing off how easily he pwns banelings as T?


That is EmpireHappy, from Russia

yks, we were talking about mechanics and then we switched to micro. LOL Go up and see my comment about mechanics difficulty and micro difficulty.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_Weekly_12
ForGG's first tourney debut saw him to semi finals. Pretty impressive imo.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I thought Happy plays Zerg, or is this a different Happy, or is he just showing off how easily he pwns banelings as T?










Happy is T your thinking of HappyZerg who is a completely different player.


----------



## yks

I know what you guys were talking about, but you were saying blinker was wrong when blinker was in fact mostly right. so i had to throw in corrections. like ancient proverbs go; "wrong information is worse than no information"


----------



## Alex132

All the races have different versions of micro / macro style.

I would not say any one race is imba or easy to micro / macro compared to the others.
I play all 3 and I find macro as all of them easy. Micro as ANY of the 3 races can be hard/easy depending on the situation.

TL;DR: They're all pretty much very balanced in micro, macro and units.


----------



## QuadDamage

I have been playing higher level people, it's really funny to see the different from bronze sliver gold and plat. When you hit top level diamond or master the play style is so much better


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;15306418*
> I have been playing higher level people, it's really funny to see the different from bronze sliver gold and plat. When you hit top level diamond or master the play style is so much better


So much... smoother


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15303179*
> That is EmpireHappy, from Russia


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;15303207*
> Happy is T your thinking of HappyZerg who is a completely different player.


aha thanks,

that video is so ownage, I think i'm going to go to that marine micro custom map BigFan showed me more often, would love to have skills like that, or at least closer to that...


----------



## poroboszcz

Why MLG stream always has to suck so much in EU.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Why MLG stream always has to suck so much in EU.










Kicked my girlfriend off the internet so I could quadview


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Kicked my girlfriend off the internet so I could quadview










I can't watch a single low quality stream. ******* bull****.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15310798*
> I can't watch a single low quality stream. ******* bull****.


Bomber v. Sheth g1 if you get a chance. Insane.


----------



## Sainesk

lost viking silver... like 400K...









I seem to panic after I lose my first life and it all goes downhill from there lol...


----------



## Sainesk

haha MVP 3 rax all-inning Ganzi in game 1...

so glad he failed, otherwise I'd be like forget macro i'm 3 rax all inning to GM...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15314259*
> haha MVP 3 rax all-inning Ganzi in game 1...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> so glad he failed, otherwise I'd be like forget macro i'm 3 rax all inning to GM...


There's a TL thread about someone who 4 raxed all-in into masters I think. Sadly it works fairly well.


----------



## Ruckol1

Lol, marines. Way to funny nothing's been done to them


----------



## Ruckol1

Lollolololololololololololololo marines


----------



## Sainesk

not sure if marineking was trolling or just playing really bad...

i'll assume trolling since some guy in the audience was holding a trollface sign...

didn't reddit or someone pay for his trip to the mlg?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


didn't reddit or someone pay for his trip to the mlg?


Yeah, /r/starcraft did.

Also, I was quite hoping for an IdrA victory. It seemed as if throughout 80% of the game IdrA was just killing, but hey, MKP won fair and square.

In other news... I've only recently learned to go something other than Roach Infestor (yeah yeah, I know), and my ZvT has improved substantially (I'm a Gold player, go easy on me). Looking to improve in pretty much everything else.

If a good Zerg player could give me some tips, that would be great


----------



## Fortunex

Ling/Bling/Muta into infestor/broodlord/ling owns marine/medivac/tank/thor.

I'm only high plat, but if you wanna PM me with problems you're having I can try to help you out.


----------



## iambald

I've played 25 games over 6 hours today. aow;irgjadbondtr


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;15326507*
> I've played 25 games over 6 hours today. aow;irgjadbondtr


Like a boss


----------



## CravinR1

I am hoping to get promoted to platinum next season. I've beaten 2 platinum players today (Terran/Toss). Luckily no zerg yet (since I still havn't gotten a good build PvZ it semes)

I go through cycles where I do really well vs Terran then cycles where I can't beat them. My protoss I usually win more than I lose.

PvT open 15 nexus, 2 gates, 1 gas, cyber, second gas, robo, 3rd gate
PvP korean 4 gate all the way

Couple screenies of my PvT game today (since I already posted a vid of my korean 4 gate build)
4 seconds of game time his food went down 30 (couple Colossus + 4 HT's) and he had ghosts but he didn't get my HTs


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15327819*
> I am hoping to get promoted to platinum next season. I've beaten 2 platinum players today (Terran/Toss). Luckily no zerg yet (since I still havn't gotten a good build PvZ it semes)
> 
> I go through cycles where I do really well vs Terran then cycles where I can't beat them. My protoss I usually win more than I lose.
> 
> PvT open 15 nexus, 2 gates, 1 gas, cyber, second gas, robo, 3rd gate
> PvP korean 4 gate all the way
> 
> some screenies of my PvT game today (since I already posted a vid of my korean 4 gate build)


Stupid question, but what exactly does the terran that you can't beat?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15327847*
> Stupid question, but what exactly does the terran that you can't beat?


Early rine/rauder or 1-1-1

I find if I 15 nexus he has 2 choices:

1> Scout it and drop a fast expo also
2> Try to hit super early to break my front

If he doesn't break my front then I am way ahead. If he expos early then by the time he has banshees/tanks I have such a strong economy I can take him. When I just one base 3 gate robo its really hard to hold the 1-1-1.

All I know is I'm gold and I've beaten the last 3 Terrans I've played by opening 15 nexus (2 plat and a gold terran)


----------



## HarrisLam

man i wish i can execute 1-1-1


----------



## HarrisLam

ROFL

playing 4v4, opponents decided to ling rush, i raise my teammate's supply depot at about the same time he himself did and ended up opening it, lost the 2 player base on our side, then another teammate(whos on another 2 player base) start calling me noob shiet for the entire game and blamed the game lost, proceeded to call me names and said "should have just played instead of controlling other player's shiet" even after i left.

I was already in another game when he trash talked out of game so i couldn't reply to him(how if i want to? do i do the /w thingy like in warcraft 3? that would have been a hazzle if his name is long). Came back out from that game, was gonna reply to him and found out i was ignored

lol.
Haven't had that much trash talk right in my face for a while


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;15328587*
> ROFL
> 
> playing 4v4, opponents decided to ling rush, i raise my teammate's supply depot at about the same time he himself did and ended up opening it, lost the 2 player base on our side, then another teammate(whos on another 2 player base) start calling me noob shiet for the entire game and blamed the game lost, proceeded to call me names and said "should have just played instead of controlling other player's shiet" even after i left.
> 
> I was already in another game when he trash talked out of game so i couldn't reply to him(how if i want to? do i do the /w thingy like in warcraft 3? that would have been a hazzle if his name is long). Came back out from that game, was gonna reply to him and found out i was ignored
> 
> lol.
> Haven't had that much trash talk right in my face for a while


It wasn't in your face, it was in his monitor actually. Noob.








jk


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15328633*
> It wasn't in your face, it was in his monitor actually. Noob.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jk


oh NOESSSSSSSSS

I need to quit


----------



## Sainesk

today, I had to teach a zerg player higher league than me that zerg can wall off their ramp...








examples with and without units:


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


I was already in another game when he trash talked out of game so i couldn't reply to him(how if i want to? do i do the /w thingy like in warcraft 3? that would have been a hazzle if his name is long).


There is a faster way, but the way I always do it

HIT ENTER

HIT TAB til his name shows up


----------



## Alex132

Coming back from a really bad setback is so much easier in 1v1 than team games.

I never really liked 1v1's, but now I seem to be able to get a win much more easily.

Guess watching the GSL a lot helped a bit xDD


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


today, I had to teach a zerg player higher league than me that zerg can wall off their ramp...








examples with and without units: [snip]


Why the hell would you wall off your ramp? Just use 2 Queens earlygame...

And if you're playing the game right, you wouldn't need to wall off because you'd have an expansion at around 14-16 food


----------



## CravinR1

My favorite marine death. Its blurry due to me zooming in so much


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Why the hell would you wall off your ramp? Just use 2 Queens earlygame...


I know, just some zerg was convinced there's no way zerg can wall without units...


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

HuK wins MLG


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


HuK wins MLG










That makes the last 3 major tournaments all won by foreigners, who don't play terran. This obviously means that ghosts and every other terran unit aren't op.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


That makes the last 3 major tournaments all won by foreigners, who don't play terran. This obviously means that ghosts and every other terran unit aren't op.


agreed


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


That makes the last 3 major tournaments all won by foreigners, who don't play terran. This obviously means that ghosts and every other terran unit aren't op.


I'm only in Gold league so I'm really in no position to comment about balance, but compare the Ghost to a High Templar. EMP has a blast radius, while Feedback only affects one unit. The Ghost can cloak, the Templar can't. Ghost speed is a bit faster than Templar. Not to mention it can take down Toss shields.

I see where people are coming from in terms of balance, but I just think I'm too inexperienced to comment.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


I'm only in Gold league so I'm really in no position to comment about balance, but compare the Ghost to a High Templar. EMP has a blast radius, while Feedback only affects one unit. The Ghost can cloak, the Templar can't. Ghost speed is a bit faster than Templar. Not to mention it can take down Toss shields.

I see where people are coming from in terms of balance, but I just think I'm too inexperienced to comment.


Unit per unit, terran might seem OP. But thats not how it works, unfortunately


----------



## CravinR1

Terran are VASTLY OP vs Protoss EARLY game. If someone brings a few marauders + rines + 5-10 scvs while the protoss only has a couple zealots/stalkers then its gg no re

However mid to late game they're more balancced, provided the protoss has charged zealots + upgrades + colossos and/or HTs with storms


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Terran are VASTLY OP vs Protoss EARLY game. If someone brings a few marauders + rines + 5-10 scvs while the protoss only has a couple zealots/stalkers then its gg no re


You would have hated 6 months ago considering Terran early game was far far far better, and Protoss far far worse ( though they managed ).


----------



## poroboszcz

If you go 15 nexus it's enough if they bring 1 reaper. Doesn't prove the OPness in any way though.


----------



## Sainesk

I usually just FF ramp and go "lolol, ima mine some more and build an army while your scvs wait for my forcefields to go away"

If there's a reaper, I guess i'd try to snipe it.


----------



## Genome852

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


Terran are VASTLY OP vs Protoss EARLY game. If someone brings a few marauders + rines + 5-10 scvs while the protoss only has a couple zealots/stalkers then its gg no re


Forcefield and collect win as he pulled 10 scvs off the line...

The only time you should lose early PvT is if you 1gate FE and get blind countered by 3rax... but that's a risk you take, and if you defend you win.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genome852;15346059*
> Forcefield and collect win as he pulled 10 scvs off the line...
> 
> The only time you should lose early PvT is if you 1gate FE and get blind countered by 3rax... but that's a risk you take, and if you defend you win.


Tal Adrim altar has a god awful opening to try to FF + its level so they can snipe your sentrie

I have begun countering this by:
9 pylon
15 nexus
16 pylon
17 forge
18 gate
19 assimilator/canon

Then getting 2-3 canons to help with my sentry/stalker opening. Then tech up like mad to colossus + HTs (sometimes a few dts in the mix)

BUT if he brings 5-10 scvs and you ff, all he has to do is use OP mules to catch back up. Even when I'm on 3 base fully saturated and he's on 2, Terran out resources me thanks to mules.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15344553*
> Terran are VASTLY OP vs Protoss EARLY game. If someone brings a few marauders + rines + 5-10 scvs while the protoss only has a couple zealots/stalkers then its gg no re
> 
> However mid to late game they're more balancced, provided the protoss has charged zealots + upgrades + colossos and/or HTs with storms


L2Forcefeild + scout









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15346251*
> BUT if he brings 5-10 scvs and you ff, all he has to do is use OP mules to catch back up. Even when I'm on 3 base fully saturated and he's on 2, Terran out resources me thanks to mules.


L2Chronoboost probes









The way I see it is that no race is really OP to another. It is just errors in your play style that is leading to your problems.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15344553*
> Terran are VASTLY OP vs Protoss EARLY game. If someone brings a few marauders + rines + 5-10 scvs while the protoss only has a couple zealots/stalkers then its gg no re
> 
> However mid to late game they're more balancced, provided the protoss has charged zealots + upgrades + colossos and/or HTs with storms


Are you ok? What marauders? I get 2 rauders 4 marines up, prot already has 6-8 stalkers. How the hell do I hold 8 stalkers?..









gg


----------



## Genome852

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15346251*
> Tal Adrim altar has a god awful opening to try to FF + its level so they can snipe your sentrie
> 
> I have begun countering this by:
> 9 pylon
> 15 nexus
> 16 pylon
> 17 forge
> 18 gate
> 19 assimilator/canon
> 
> Then getting 2-3 canons to help with my sentry/stalker opening. Then tech up like mad to colossus + HTs (sometimes a few dts in the mix)
> 
> BUT if he brings 5-10 scvs and you ff, all he has to do is use OP mules to catch back up. Even when I'm on 3 base fully saturated and he's on 2, Terran out resources me thanks to mules.


Forge opening against Terran is terrible IMO unless the guy's an idiot and tries to break your natural. If he just expands after seeing your expansion, he will be quite ahead economically as you have invested into an early forge and 3 cannons -- 600 minerals. You can defend 2rax (reactor + tech lab) openings with 1gate FE but you need great micro (MC has pulled it off several times).

If you defend an all-in with 10 scvs pulled without losing too much, you win unless you do something stupid. He has MULEs, you have chronoboosts... you should never lose 3 base to 2 base assuming every base is saturated, unless you severely skimped out on army or if an engagement goes horribly wrong and you don't have time to reinforce.

As for Tal'darim... I dislike the map (it's just poorly designed IMO) so I have it veto'd. Shakuras, Terminus RE are all much better 'macro' maps. Actually, thinking about it, most of the ladder maps suck.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15346518*
> The way I see it is that no race is really OP to another. It is just errors in your play style that is leading to your problems.


This is true. Imbalance really only affects higher levels (pro level, perhaps GM level). Personal skill is almost always a much more important factor in determining who wins... this is especially true at lower levels where we all play at. If I had a nickel for every time a bronze player complained about imbalance... I'd have a lot of nickels.


----------



## Invisible

Long post incoming.

I've been watching SC2 ever since it started in MLG (embarrassing, I know), and have been trying to learn more and more on it. I know all the basics for the game itself and most of the classes, but I know for a fact that I'm going to get nowhere just reading stuff. I need to watch as much streams and games as possible.

So what would you guys recommend for full gameplays for beginners? Possibly with commentary? Any YouTube channels? I know Day[9] has Newbie Tuesday's, but besides that, I don't know anyone really (also, Day9 is the boss, I love him, same for Artosis)

Also, I know competitions such as MLG will help a lot, especially for more advanced gameplay. But besides MLG, I don't really know of anything else. I only know of GSL and WCG, and I THINK GSL is going on right now, with the final going on in a few days between MVP and MMA, which will be great.

Is there a site that lists all the competitions around the world for SC2 along with times and streams? I did find this on TeamLiquid's site, which is a HUGE list of what exactly I'm looking for. Does anyone use this?

Thanks guys.


----------



## Sainesk

GSL feels like it's on almost all the time lol







but I love it...

i've gone up a league a season so far just from watching Day9, GSL/MLG, + practice partners really help (especially if they're better than you, and willing to pwn you and give you advice).

And asking for advice from places like here, teamliquid, and starcraft 2 forums can help too (remember to post replays!).

Also you've gotta play instead of just watching video after video, your own mistakes and failures can be your greatest teacher (if that makes any sense







).


----------



## Invisible

Yea, from what I've seen GSL has a TON of games, haha. I saw that something called GSL Up & Down is going on really soon...as if in 4 hours...at 4 in the morning for me. I can't be awake for that









And I can't play cause I don't own the game, haha. Nor do I have $50 to shell out for it. I really, really want to play it though and have for a while, but I shouldn't be spending any money on games at the moment.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Invisible*


Long post incoming.

I've been watching SC2 ever since it started in MLG (embarrassing, I know), and have been trying to learn more and more on it. I know all the basics for the game itself and most of the classes, but I know for a fact that I'm going to get nowhere just reading stuff. I need to watch as much streams and games as possible.

So what would you guys recommend for full gameplays for beginners? Possibly with commentary? Any YouTube channels? I know Day[9] has Newbie Tuesday's, but besides that, I don't know anyone really (also, Day9 is the boss, I love him, same for Artosis)

Also, I know competitions such as MLG will help a lot, especially for more advanced gameplay. But besides MLG, I don't really know of anything else. I only know of GSL and WCG, and I THINK GSL is going on right now, with the final going on in a few days between MVP and MMA, which will be great.

Is there a site that lists all the competitions around the world for SC2 along with times and streams? I did find this on TeamLiquid's site, which is a HUGE list of what exactly I'm looking for. Does anyone use this?

Thanks guys.


Check out Warp Prism. There should be channels across the bottom of people who are live streaming. Depending on your race, some really great players will stream and some will even comment while they play. Most noticeably, Demuslim comes to mind; he basically gives a free lesson every game he comments on. Also, NASL, IPL, and MLG have lots of events on, one per night usually.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I usually just FF ramp and go "lolol, ima mine some more and build an army while your scvs wait for my forcefields to go away"

If there's a reaper, I guess i'd try to snipe it.


And this is why I love ghost openings. A sentry heavy army just gets melted by a scan and a quick emp.


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*












LOL!


----------



## Alex132

Someone tried to forge fast expand against me when I was terran pffft hello cloaked banshee into tank push


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=276447

Wonder what's this about.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=276447

Wonder what's this about.


Just good publicity for the eSports scene I'd guess. I'm anticipating a HoTS release date announcement; maybe something with that too.

Edit: Just spent the last 15 minutes reading the TL forum; dont do it.


----------



## CravinR1

I used to Forge FE until I got reapered............ now I just 15 nexus vs terrans lol


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


And this is why I love ghost openings. A sentry heavy army just gets melted by a scan and a quick emp.


an all-in that includes a ghost sounds epic...


----------



## Sainesk

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li4UONoG9WE[/ame]

hell, it's about time...

for a starcraft documentary.


----------



## Alex132

Pretty awesome


----------



## CravinR1

Here is how I break a Terran Siege Line in Gold/Platinum

http://youtu.be/wDVGF7LxOzw


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15359047*
> Here is how I break a Terran Siege Line in Gold/Platinum
> 
> http://youtu.be/wDVGF7LxOzw


Also known as 1-a


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead;15359162*
> Also known as 1-a


After 1 a I had to press 2 then T 5x lol


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15359262*
> After 1 a I had to press 2 then T 5x lol


Hahahah Nice


----------



## CravinR1

You guys are quite today


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


You guys are quite today


quiet. 
quite means a lot


----------



## HometownHero

Dark Souls has been cutting into my laddering time. If anyone else is in diamond 4v4 and is looking to get to masters (or a masters looking to help







) we should get 3 people together to do 4v4 so as to limit only 1 idiot per game...


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I am a Gold Zerg. Someone should help me out


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15365489*
> quiet.
> quite means a lot


I was thinking, you in particular, are quite gay lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15368447*
> I was thinking, you in particular, are quite gay lol


hoho, quite right. I quite did your dad once, it was back in his wild years









Let me get a second take on this.
If "gay" should mean well educated, speaking better english as second language than you as native, having a gorgeous wife and higher than average income...

Then yeah, I'm *quite* gay.


----------



## ntherblast

Pretty sure gay originally meant happy


----------



## QuadDamage

I am getting sick of playing ladders with random people I got a team of all bronze in my gold random team they were so bad I took out 2 by myself and they did nothing in my base

I don't want to play with friends i will be in diamond in team games. I need to make a troll account and play in bronze for the lawls!


----------



## ronnin426850

Which reminds me of a joke









A guy walks to his dad and says:
-Dad, I have to admint something to you. I'm gay.
- Hm - the dad says - Do you have 1M $$ in the bank?
-No, dad..
- Do you have a house on the beach?
-No, dad..
- Do you have a luxury car?
-No
- My boy, you are not gay. You're just a ***.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15368628*
> hoho, quite right. I quite did your dad once, it was back in his wild years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me get a second take on this.
> If "gay" should mean well educated, speaking better english as second language than you as native, having a gorgeous wife and higher than average income...
> 
> Then yeah, I'm *quite* gay.


All I heard is you claiming:


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15369423*
> All I heard is you claiming:










Cute. I'm cool in the real world too, so that fails to impress me. Besides, you started it. At least you maybe learned how to use "quite"?







Have a lovely day sweetheart.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15369542*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cute. I'm cool in the real world too, so that fails to impress me. Besides, you started it. At least you maybe learned how to use "quite"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have a lovely day sweetheart.


I am quite impressed with your spelling police skills:thumb:


----------



## Alex132

CravinR1, your vid on how to 'break' a siege line wasn't really how to break one IMO.

You just got lucky that his marines didn't attack, but the main reason was that he had like 5 tanks XD

It was nice, but definitely not done 100% correctly


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


CravinR1, your vid on how to 'break' a siege line wasn't really how to break one IMO.

You just got lucky that his marines didn't attack, but the main reason was that he had like 5 tanks XD

It was nice, but definitely not done 100% correctly


He had 9 tanks and storms destroyed his marines. Granted the storms could've been placed better and the charge lots should've been put up front. It wasn't an actual "how to" but more of a I busted it with my unit composition. I was 2/2 or 3/3 also.

I usually go 4 colosssus + 4 HT's vs terrans. But I had a obs and saw he had alot of tanks and vikings so went 2 colossus + 4-6 immortals + 6 HTs I think

I was also on 3 bases and was about to take a 4th


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


He had 9 tanks and storms destroyed his marines. Granted the storms could've been placed better and the charge lots should've been put up front. It wasn't an actual "how to" but more of a I busted it with my unit composition. I was 2/2 or 3/3 also.

I usually go 4 colosssus + 4 HT's vs terrans. But I had a obs and saw he had alot of tanks and vikings so went 2 colossus + 4-6 immortals + 6 HTs I think


His marines were standing around doing nothing though









IMO, You shoulda had the immortals to try and absorb all the tank fire, colosi on the marines / storming them too. Then once most are gone try to blink on top of the tanks, but leaving some behind to make sure Vikings don't kill your colosi.

Just my POV, but I guess either works


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


His marines were standing around doing nothing though









IMO, You shoulda had the immortals to try and absorb all the tank fire, colosi on the marines / storming them too. Then once most are gone try to blink on top of the tanks, but leaving some behind to make sure Vikings don't kill your colosi.

Just my POV, but I guess either works


I'll never get it how you guys manage to do all that **** in half a second... SC2 not for me, going to play Crysis now.


----------



## Sainesk

how do you determine the best mouse for SC2 lol? not as in comfortable for you, even though that definitely helps.

I switched back to my good old sidewinder x5 and I seem to be epic at marine splitting with it compared to my other mice, but I feel like I played horribly with it in general when I wasn't microing.

Maybe I just haven't used it in so long or was having a bad day...


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


I am a Gold Zerg. Someone should help me out










I'm only plat but I'm up to give whatever tips I can when I'm on.

Fortune.461


----------



## iambald

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


I am a Gold Zerg. Someone should help me out










lol what a n00b <3


----------



## Kreeker

Someone please explain to me in detail how to perform an scv surround on lings. PLEASE HELP, I'm about to put a screwdriver through my monitor.


----------



## Fortunex

Select SCVs, send them to a mineral patch, when they get grouped up, send them to another one so that they walk through the lings, then right as they're passing through, attack move and they'll un-group-up and surround the lings. Can't find any videos atm, but you can probably find one if you look.


----------



## Sainesk

no map changes for season 4 1v1!?









*rageeeeeeeeeeeee*
















when are we gonna get the maps from the pro tournaments already...


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


no map changes for season 4 1v1!?









*rageeeeeeeeeeeee*
















when are we gonna get the maps from the pro tournaments already...


Not enough Destructible rocks on the Maps from all the Pro tourneys.


----------



## Jeffro422

Posted on Team EG's facebook, a picture of their team rigs...










980X GTX 580...ever heard of cable management..


----------



## CravinR1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nWZkX8U-ko&feature=youtu.be

Here is how I deal with bioballs. I love 15 nexus, gives me the edge in both upgrades and army


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15377025*
> http://youtu.be/6nWZkX8U-ko
> 
> Here is how I deal with bioballs. I love 15 nexus, gives me the edge in both upgrades and army


I don't think that was a fair representation, that first Terran was terrible...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz;15377047*
> I don't think that was a fair representation, that first Terran was terrible...


Both those players were top 8 gold. But yeah the first Terran was horrid, didn't even have a engineering bay down at 18+ min in the game. The second one did some good EMPs on me but luckily my templars were in back when the engagemen started and he used the emps.

Also the second Terran got his third before me (which is unusual)


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15377111*
> Both those players were top 8 gold. But yeah the first Terran was horrid, didn't even have a engineering bay down at 18+ min in the game. The second one did some good EMPs on me but luckily my templars were in back when the engagemen started and he used the emps.
> 
> Also the second Terran got his third before me (which is unusual)


He targeted your Colossi with a bunch of Stalkers right in front. Terrible.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz;15377148*
> He targeted your Colossi with a bunch of Stalkers right in front. Terrible.


Yeah no doubt that was a "gimme" I don't think I lost a single unit that engagement.

What you missed before that is I had an obs over his army most the game, and when he moved to hit my Gold expo going up I positioned my army to cut him off. He lost his vikings without targeting my colossus and the rest was pure rapeage


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15377025*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nWZkX8U-ko&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Here is how I deal with bioballs. I love 15 nexus, gives me the edge in both upgrades and army


Sorry man, but that's pethetic







You're beating barracks units with colossi? No way







+the first terran practically committed suicide







That army of yours should be compared to heavy mech - tanks, banshee, thor, battlecruiser.

+bioball can be decimated just with OP storm


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15378414*
> Sorry man, but that's pethetic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're beating barracks units with colossi? No way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +the first terran practically committed suicide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That army of yours should be compared to heavy mech - tanks, banshee, thor, battlecruiser.
> 
> +bioball can be decimated just with OP storm


My composition changes based on what I scout.

I showed one where I cut back the colossus and got more immortals/storms with the marine tank army with several vikings.

If they were thor/tank heavy i'd of course go mass immortals/charge lots and a few colossus and/or HTs for storms

Banshees/Battlecruisers would be blink stalkers + obs


----------



## HometownHero

No new maps for Season 4 is ridiculous. I am so sick of the dark blue/black tile set they rehash every season. Give me Belshir Beach!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15380340*
> No new maps for Season 4 is ridiculous. I am so sick of the dark blue/black tile set they rehash every season. Give me Belshir Beach!


I. Hate. Belshir. Beach.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


I. Hate. Belshir. Beach.


Hahaha, what race do you play? I hated it at first too, especially vZ.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Hahaha, what race do you play? I hated it at first too, especially vZ.


Random. Hate it as any race really


----------



## iambald

The first time I played on Belshir Beach I thought units couldn't cross water... It was a bit of a surprise when banelings started rolling in at my flank.


----------



## poroboszcz

I wonder where is BigFan.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iambald*


The first time I played on Belshir Beach I thought units couldn't cross water... It was a bit of a surprise when banelings started rolling in at my flank.


HEY THAT WAS VS ME









In other news, my high school APCS teacher is gonna be out sick tomorrow to go to Blizzcon. BLIZZCON.

Keep in mind that she's an Asian 40 year old lady who plays both StarCraft and WoW. I'm very impressed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I wonder where is BigFan.


I think he's in school.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


I. Hate. Belshir. Beach.


more than searing crater?

I never veto any maps since I think a good player can win on any map, but it's not fun when your armies' rallying point is like right next to your opponent's armies' rallying point when you get close spawns


----------



## Sainesk

wouldn't it be hilarious if everyone was placed in bronze when the next season starts then they change it to your real results the next day or so? I think blizzard would win troll of the year then







(or everybody into masters).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


more than searing crater?

I never veto any maps since I think a good player can win on any map, but it's not fun when your armies' rallying point is like right next to your opponent's armies' rallying point when you get close spawns










I actually like that. I think strategy should depend more on the surrounding setting (map) than on countering this unit with that unit, 3 sec army clash, if you win- you win the game. If you lose - good luck holding...

It was pure strategy and tactics back in Savage 2 RTS mode, where everything depends on the map, and taking proper advantage of cliffs, high ground, tight passes, stuff like that.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I actually like that. I think strategy should depend more on the surrounding setting (map)


Fair enough.









hope they reconsider not changing the map pool for next season though...
I miss my scrapstation







.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Random. Hate it as any race really










I just want more beaches. Anything besides floating rocks in space. Makes me miss Metalopolis...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I think he's in school.


Maybe someone should take over the thread since he seems to have abandoned it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Maybe someone should take over the thread since he seems to have abandoned it.


and do what?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


and do what?










Update the OP, since it's 90% out of date and ban you.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Update the OP, since it's 90% out of date and ban you.


Oh, that..


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Update the OP, since it's 90% out of date


I think it's all my fault,

I may have scared BigFan when I volunteered and told him not to be surprised when this thread turns into the new my little pony club...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I think it's all my fault,

I may have scared BigFan when I volunteered and told him not to be surprised when this thread turns into the new my little pony club...










Pffft it would never


----------



## Fortunex

You Tube


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15385462*
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1HZp4ClFXY


I think I just puked a unicorn.


----------



## Alex132

There is a pony thread ya know, and this ain't it :U


----------



## yks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Maybe someone should take over the thread since he seems to have abandoned it.


I'll update the stuff. How do I become OP


----------



## Alex132

Ask a mod


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=277762

Omg.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

I knew it! Battle hellions









Some of the units are kind of.. Ehh.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15396009*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762
> 
> Omg.


lol


----------



## Alex132

Defilers basically and some sort of proxy hatch type thing. As if Z already had problems re-enforcing their army :I

also from those units,
inb4 huge terran weakness and Zerg OPness.

Will take awhile to get it sorted out.

edit - those are all really micro/spell intensive units that it looks like to me.

WHERE ARE MY LURKERS / FIREBATS? *D8<*[/B]


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15396009*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762
> 
> Omg.


those are singleplayer units right


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast;15396591*
> those are singleplayer units right


If you read it, they already tested them in MP.
Quote:


> WHERE ARE MY LURKERS / FIREBATS? D8<


Sour about those Lurkers/Firebats


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15396461*
> Defilers basically and some sort of proxy hatch type thing. As if Z already had problems re-enforcing their army :I
> 
> also from those units,
> inb4 huge terran weakness and Zerg OPness.
> 
> Will take awhile to get it sorted out.
> 
> edit - those are all really micro/spell intensive units that it looks like to me.
> 
> WHERE ARE MY LURKERS / FIREBATS? *D8<*[/B]


*
I made the mistake of looking at the TL thread regarding the new units. You'd think they are available on the ladder as we speak.

IMO though, the new terran units look pretty lame.*


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15396834*
> I made the mistake of looking at the TL thread regarding the new units. You'd think they are available on the ladder as we speak.
> 
> IMO though, the new terran units look pretty lame.


I really can see Zerg being very overpowered in the late game when HotS comes out, will be sorted out later, but still.

Also bored-ladder time.

What race, what cheese should I do?


----------



## CravinR1

So will HOTS players be able to play with SC2 players? Or are they going to develop an entirely new ladder/ server base for it ?


----------



## Devilmaypoop

There's a trailer in the TL page now. Looks pretty hot.
Quote:


> Or are they going to develop an entirely new ladder/ server base for it ?


Hopefully not, though I'll buy it anyways.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15397165*
> So will HOTS players be able to play with SC2 players? Or are they going to develop an entirely new ladder/ server base for it ?


It wouldn't be fair either way. I only hope there is Starter Ed for HotS


----------



## yks

Burrowed banelings can MOVE. Possibly an upgrade!

excuse me as I cry.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15397165*
> So will HOTS players be able to play with SC2 players? Or are they going to develop an entirely new ladder/ server base for it ?


Its an entirely new ladder from what we know so far. Same thing happened for WC3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15396976*
> I really can see Zerg being very overpowered in the late game when HotS comes out, will be sorted out later, but still.
> 
> Also bored-ladder time.
> 
> What race, what cheese should I do?


Yeah, I expect there to be _a lot_ of zergs on the ladder when HoTS comes out.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks;15397448*
> Burrowed banelings can MOVE. Possibly an upgrade!
> 
> excuse me as I cry.


I can already see my whole SCV line abruptly exploding as the banelings tunneled from under my wall.









Quote:


> Thors are 600 minerals now and require a fusion core. Theyve got the aoe ability from single player.You can only have 1 thor at a time now,.a la mothership


O.O


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15397518*
> Its an entirely new ladder from what we know so far. Same thing happened for WC3.
> 
> Yeah, I expect there to be _a lot_ of zergs on the ladder when HoTS comes out.


TLO's 6 rax build will come in handy









edit - I think they should add more mid-game/early game units. Not these uber hardly ever used units like the mothership or whatnot.


----------



## HometownHero

Here is the new trailer for anyone interested. Shows off some of the new units and... Ultralisk burrow-charge... I hope that isnt in the multiplayer but its shown in the multiplayer section of the video..

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG_3R9BoVvg&feature=player_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG_3R9BoVvg&feature=player_embedded"]Trailer[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/21/official-list-of-unit-changes-in-starcraft-iis-heart-of-the-swarm-expansion/

man so sick


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I'm coming out of retirement.


----------



## Nethermir

lol are those helion transformers? looks like the protoss will have the ability to teleport the opponents, the burrow-charge looks sweet as well that that flying thing that can pull units. would be quite useful dealing with deathballs.


----------



## ronnin426850

Terran is screwed again.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15398107*
> Here is the new trailer for anyone interested. Shows off some of the new units and... Ultralisk burrow-charge... I hope that isnt in the multiplayer but its shown in the multiplayer section of the video..
> 
> Trailer


Is it me or does Kerrigan look completely different and ugly now?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xHassassin;15399032*
> Is it me or does Kerrigan look completely different and ugly now?


Totally. Rasta. What happened to this cutie:









???


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop;15397603*
> I can already see my whole SCV line abruptly exploding as the banelings tunneled from under my wall.


Oh QQ. The defense for that is identical to any dt defense. Get a bloody turret up.

As a random player, i'm loving all the new stuff :3 I'm bit disappointed with the toss changes tho. Carriers were a symbolic bw unit, and replacing them with some glorified muta counter seems silly >_>


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15399052*
> Totally. Rasta. What happened to this cutie:
> 
> ???


I think she got moar boobs?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15399126*
> Oh QQ. The defense for that is identical to any dt defense. Get a bloody turret up.
> 
> As a random player, i'm loving all the new stuff :3 I'm bit disappointed with the toss changes tho. Carriers were a symbolic bw unit, and replacing them with some glorified muta counter seems silly >_>


Yeah, I think most would agree to this.


----------



## Sangers_low

Blizzcon
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277868
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/BlizzCon_2011_StarCraft_II_Invitational/Main_Tournament
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762

Some Slayers news
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=276296

Wait one of the link was wrong. edited

proper link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277788


----------



## Sangers_low

OMG JP is such a ******. How do u confuse australia with new zealand. ***.

As soon as a second rate commentator like him was casting blizzcon, my mind went straight to blizzard compensating MLG for all the crap b.net problems they ran into during tourneys because blizzard didn't enable LAN


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15399318*
> OMG JP is such a ******. How do u confuse australia with new zealand. ***.
> 
> As soon as a second rate commentator like him was casting blizzcon, my mind went straight to blizzard compensating MLG for all the crap b.net problems they ran into during tourneys because blizzard didn't enable LAN


I remember I used to do business with a girl from NZ that had a Supra. In here for sale threads would always put "Please do not ship to Australia, ship to NZ!!!!".


----------



## Sangers_low

LOL david kim and dustin browder in the same place. The enemy of all sc2 players right?


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't know. It seems Zerg got what they wanted, terran already had everything and protoss got some random gimmicky stuff.

Protoss
Tempest - 300/300 AtA instead of carriers and mothership. Cool, if my silver opponent only makes mutas I can now counter them with Tempest!

Oracle - Probably the expected harass unit for protoss. Guess we'll have to wait for Reaver till LotV.

Replicant - may be ok.

Nexus recall - pretty cool.

Terran
Shredder - because ability of holding ground was something terran was missing...

Warhound - looks rubbish, but may be ok to compliment mech.

Transformer hellion - facepalm.

New Thor - because a single super-unit has proven to be what SC needs...

Zerg
Viper - OP
New lurker - great.
Hydra buff - awesome.

Also opening DTs seems to be an auto-win against zerg now unless spire is not going to require lair any more which wouldn't make sense anyway.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15399407*
> I don't know. It seems Zerg got what they wanted, terran already had everything and protoss got some random gimmicky stuff.
> 
> Protoss
> Tempest - 300/300 AtA instead of carriers and mothership. Cool, if my silver opponent only makes mutas I can now counter them with Tempest!
> 
> Oracle - Probably the expected harass unit for protoss. Guess we'll have to wait for Reaver till LotV.
> 
> Replicant - may be ok.
> 
> Nexus recall - pretty cool.
> 
> Terran
> Shredder - because ability of holding ground was something terran was missing...
> 
> Warhound - looks rubbish, but may be ok to compliment mech.
> 
> Transformer hellion - facepalm.
> 
> New Thor - because a single super-unit has proven to be what SC needs...
> 
> Zerg
> Viper - OP
> New lurker - great.
> Hydra buff - awesome.
> 
> Also opening DTs seems to be an auto-win against zerg now unless spire is not going to require lair any more which wouldn't make sense anyway.


Muta play is actually gaining a lot of popularity in zvp these days, but getting rid of carriers gets a no from me >_<
Oracles seems okay, i'm not sure about replicant either. Them and mass recall will need some careful balancing.

Shredder will help a lot with ling harass, but so did PFs. I don't know if terrans needed any extra static defense. It's an okay addition overall.
Warhound's a goliath copy, and a replacement for Thors. It's a bit redundant, but not "rubbish" imo.
Transformer hellion, while a cheesy idea, can rly strength mech play and make those rine/helion attacks incredibly strong.
I do agree SuperThor is ******ed

Viper seems awesome, but the "supposed" darkswarm sounds more like disruption web than ds. The new "lurker" is noting like lurker at all. More suited for breaking siege lines than killing marines imo.
Hydra and Ultra buff was needed from the beginning of WoL, so good buff. Baneling burrow move seems rly strange, considering u can use banedrops.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I'm happy to be a Zerg player


----------



## Sangers_low

I hate david kim's voice.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15399493*
> Muta play is actually gaining a lot of popularity in zvp these days, but getting rid of carriers gets a no from me >_<
> Oracles seems okay, i'm not sure about replicant either. Them and mass recall will need some careful balancing.
> 
> Shredder will help a lot with ling harass, but so did PFs. I don't know if terrans needed any extra static defense. It's an okay addition overall.
> Warhound's a goliath copy, and a replacement for Thors. It's a bit redundant, but not "rubbish" imo.
> Transformer hellion, while a cheesy idea, can rly strength mech play and make those rine/helion attacks incredibly strong.
> I do agree SuperThor is ******ed
> 
> Viper seems awesome, but the "supposed" darkswarm sounds more like disruption web than ds. The new "lurker" is noting like lurker at all. More suited for breaking siege lines than killing marines imo.
> Hydra and Ultra buff was needed from the beginning of WoL, so good buff. Baneling burrow move seems rly strange, considering u can use banedrops.


Any Thor is ******ed. Seriously, a Mech? They never learn..
Noone, in any military condition will EVER construct a Mech.

We needed super Battlecruiser, not those ABSURD BC toys we have now, the size of a Toyota (and about the same firepower).


----------



## DoomDash

The reaper change is my favorite. Burrow move banelings sounds broken.


----------



## Sangers_low

Holy crap that shredder is op


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15399527*
> The reaper change is my favorite. Burrow move banelings sounds broken.


Baneling burrow is Hive tech, it's far ways off from being broken.


----------



## poroboszcz

Why are they showing TooDming vs JazBaz instead of Nestea vs Naniwa???


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15399882*
> Why are they showing TooDming vs JazBaz instead of Nestea vs Naniwa???


Cause blizzard is ******ed at setting up tournaments. It was equally crap last year.

Nestea 2 : 1 Naniwa I believe.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz;15399755*
> Baneling burrow is Hive tech, it's far ways off from being broken.


Ah. We will have to see all of this in action to really know. Hope I get into the beta.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/blog/3768748/StarCraft_II_Multiplayer_Panel_at_BlizzCon_2011-10_21_2011


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15400852*
> http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/blog/3768748/StarCraft_II_Multiplayer_Panel_at_BlizzCon_2011-10_21_2011


About my reaction too.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15399052*
> Totally. Rasta. What happened to this cutie:


I prefer the new Kerrigan, I like her a little evil and broken.

Also, new ultralisk burrowed strike ability in the trailer looks sweet...

also go MMA!


----------



## Ruckol1

This is crazy! More ppl there than one of my games lol


----------



## Sainesk

omg so jelly of artosis' shirt!


----------



## Sainesk

now those were good TvT games!


----------



## HometownHero

MMA must have been having an off day at IPL because he just put on a clinic in GSL.

Also, not liking the aesthetics of the Warhound. I'd much rather just have the vanilla Goliath.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15403650*
> omg so jelly of artosis' shirt!


LOL!

/cc


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15403650*
> omg so jelly of artosis' shirt!


lol didn't notice it till it was pointed out


----------



## ronnin426850

WTH is that anyway>?


----------



## CravinR1

bronze league symbol on his shirt


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;15407767*
> Question: who won last GSL?


IMMVP.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;15407767*
> Question: who won last GSL?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League

MMA, second was MVP


----------



## HometownHero

Dear god that was a sick TvZ. I love my ghosts...


----------



## Sainesk

rofl Blizzard is releasing Blizzard DOTA as an official SC2 custom game:

  
 You Tube  



 
I wonder what effect this will have on DOTA2...

just hope it has new achievements.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;15414118*
> rofl Blizzard is releasing Blizzard DOTA as an official SC2 custom game:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1JDEnrVK8
> 
> I wonder what effect this will have on DOTA2...
> 
> just hope it has new achievements.


Why would blizzard try to take players away from the two of the most played custom games?: Hero attack and SOTIS. Actually Blizzard has no creativity and skill when in comes to map making anyway. It'll prolly suck hard


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15407175*
> MMA must have been having an off day at IPL because he just put on a clinic in GSL.
> 
> Also, not liking the aesthetics of the Warhound. I'd much rather just have the vanilla Goliath.


He's been practising incredibly hard while MVP was resting and playing in blizzcon invitationals. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA because they saw his practising.

Sets a weird standard imo. MMA > MVP > Nestea > MMA.


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15416957*
> Why would blizzard try to take players away from the two of the most played custom games?: Hero attack and SOTIS. Actually Blizzard has no creativity and skill when in comes to map making anyway. It'll prolly suck hard


They don't want anyone else to have good things









Anyways, Blizzards version will be much more refined and have a professional feel. Hero Attack has a slightly clunky feeling, and SOTIS a massive one. I can't even play the latter one.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15416976*
> He's been practising incredibly hard while MVP was resting and playing in blizzcon invitationals. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA because they saw his practising.
> 
> Sets a weird standard imo. MMA > MVP > Nestea > MMA.


Makes sense. Artosis has a knack for jinxing players too. Bomber comes to mind from the last MLG and DRG the one before that. Maybe would have paid the $40 to watch games casted by Tastosis over JP though







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sangers_low;15416957*
> Why would blizzard try to take players away from the two of the most played custom games?: Hero attack and SOTIS. Actually Blizzard has no creativity and skill when in comes to map making anyway. It'll prolly suck hard


Yeah, _no creativity_. The ladder map pool is so boring. Grey/blue color scheme for every map. A Belshir Beach (tilescheme







) map would be awesome to have in the ladder pool. Chances are, I will play the Blizz Dota mod for the achievements and never touch it again.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15419272*
> Makes sense. Artosis has a knack for jinxing players too. Bomber comes to mind from the last MLG and DRG the one before that. Maybe would have paid the $40 to watch games casted by Tastosis over JP though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


CLLLIIIIIIIDDDEEE









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15419272*
> Yeah, _no creativity_. The ladder map pool is so boring. Grey/blue color scheme for every map. A Belshir Beach (tilescheme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) map would be awesome to have in the ladder pool. Chances are, I will play the Blizz Dota mod for the achievements and never touch it again.


1v1 maps are getting boring, I like the grey/blue color scheme. But if anyone noticed in the HoTS trailer there are some VERY SC1-like textured maps coming up (smooth grey metal platforms in space).

IMO we need maps like Metalopolis and some of the GSL maps in!


----------



## BulletsLikeBlades

Always been on the diablo side of blizzard but I own a few copies of sc/bw so i'll be picking this up later this week or next probably.


----------



## HometownHero

Hahaha, yeah I forgot about the whole Clide thing.

Edit: Just saw this a few minutes ago. It looks like we might some better looking ladder maps with HoTS.

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIPflCIAIDc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIPflCIAIDc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIPflCIAIDc[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Sainesk

I hope the carrier doesn't get removed in HOTS, even though it's not perfect Starcraft just wouldn't feel the same without it. Maybe we need another carrier rush funday monday to put more attention on it









Also I have really high hopes for Blizzard DOTA...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I hope the carrier doesn't get removed in HOTS, even though it's not perfect Starcraft just wouldn't feel the same without it. Maybe we need another carrier rush funday monday to put more attention on it









Also I have really high hopes for Blizzard DOTA...


As of Blizzcon, it was removed for HoTS.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


Also I have really high hopes for Blizzard DOTA...


Same. Maybe at least there I won't suck so bad.


----------



## CravinR1

OK so I thought the new season began today? I just played a top 3 gold zerg and demolished him. And I'm still gold. Also it didn't say it was a placement match?

So when is the new season ?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


OK so I thought the new season began today? I just played a top 3 gold zerg and demolished him. And I'm still gold. Also it didn't say it was a placement match?

So when is the new season ?


The league/matchmaking system doesn't work that way. Just because you beat a Gold in a placement match doesn't mean you're Platinum level.

And yes, Season 4 should start by the end of today, give it a few more hours.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz;15435923*
> The league/matchmaking system doesn't work that way. Just because you beat a Gold in a placement match doesn't mean you're Platinum level.
> 
> And yes, Season 4 should start by the end of today, give it a few more hours.


Might wanna play properly for 1v1, or just play stupidly, get in bronze, have fun leveling up.


----------



## DoomDash

*New Terran units*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqCsYFiZFpc[/ame]

*New Protoss units*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLNul9tTzZI[/ame]

*New Zerg Units*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLg7KRAYIls[/ame]

*Individual Units*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCpfzZ5CS1o[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIXy8NlcgHE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYA4RNYLQcE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYA4RNYLQcE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2iQJwi4I0A[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QawBC-x72i0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8sn7wKv1Sg[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDGd-e654n8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J89mYcyRMw[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTGzKtMQQuU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXc5lmB7FV8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocSYw0T_FQ[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2aaM-xtnnM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANmjqGDP1Ps[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQh-QH-HLIs[/ame]

*OP*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD7ohV-oZXA[/ame]

*HotS Q&A*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec_xpvo9CUo[/ame]


----------



## Fortunex

The shredder looks ******ed. Because Terran needed more set-and-forget defense, right?


----------



## DoomDash

My thoughts : Zerg is going to easily be OP... Terran in the middle... and Protoss a really really crappy poorly designed race... AGAIN. I like how ******ed their solution to a new harass unit is compared to the Reaver.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15436350*
> My thoughts : Zerg is going to easily be OP... Terran in the middle... and Protoss a really really crappy poorly designed race... AGAIN. I like how ******ed their solution to a new harass unit is compared to the Reaver.


This.

Although they are balanced now, I would definitely say that Protoss has the most boring unit composition.

HoTS will have some seriously OP Zerg for at least the first few weeks / patches


----------



## CravinR1

PvZ, before this clip I sent 3 dts into his bases (1 per base) and killed 17 drones, then his roaches split up when he moved back to base and I followed him in.

I failed by focusing a single spine but saved by good force field placements

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpC_mzZ-iI&feature=youtu.be


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15436459*
> This.
> 
> Although they are balanced now, I would definitely say that Protoss has the most boring unit composition.
> 
> HoTS will have some seriously OP Zerg for at least the first few weeks / patches


Is there going to be an open/semi-closed beta for HoTS? The QQ is going to be absurd if there isnt.

Also, I told myself I wouldnt play any random team games in Season 4. Its going to be all abut improving 1v1...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15436325*
> The shredder looks ******ed. Because Terran needed more set-and-forget defense, right?


It is the aim that races are BALLANCED, not IDENTICAL! Terran obviously specializes in that kind of things. Also, in losing to Zerg anyway.


----------



## Sainesk

well, battle hellions better cost gas or a research that costs gas, otherwise 100 mineral marauders to soak up damage will be lols.

Reckon they will count as mech so medivacs can't heal them?

also the tempest - looks like I'll never go muta again as zerg lol...


----------



## QuadDamage

Good post doom thanks! Love u


----------



## ronnin426850

Can't.
Counter.
STALKERS!
HOWWWWW?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Can't.
Counter.
STALKERS!
HOWWWWW?


Immortals, Marauders, Speedlings ?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15445404*
> Can't.
> Counter.
> STALKERS!
> HOWWWWW?


What race do you play? Marauders with conc shell/stim is a good start.


----------



## Sainesk

same leagues as season 3









I guess I need to ladder more...

on the up side my 2v2 division has a funnier name then last season: medic pepper


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15445877*
> Immortals, Marauders, Speedlings ?


Early roaches, speedlings, marauders, immortals, more stalkers than him, tank line, thors, ultras, infestors, broodlords... all depends on micro really. Well sorta


----------



## QuadDamage

Been doing a bit more ladder. I have been playing alot of practice games with diamond and #1 ranked plat. I'm ranked #69 plat. I really like to play ladder but I have been winning more games as Terran, that bio ball 3 3 is almost unstoppable.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15448089*
> Early roaches, speedlings, marauders, immortals, more stalkers than him, tank line, thors, ultras, infestors, broodlords... all depends on micro really. Well sorta


I play T. Everything has less range than stalkers, and 1/2 health and damage. Rauders are waay to slow to produce, and marines get raped like... well, lets just say it's pretty bad









Can someone share a replay of ~silver league TvP stalkers? Nothing too pro, low league players rip me a new one if I play like on those pro replays


----------



## Fortunex

Marauders with conc shell >> Stalkers.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15448661*
> I play T. Everything has less range then stalkers, and 1/2 health and damage. Rauders are waay to slow to produce, and marines get raped like... well, lets just say it's pretty bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone share a replay of ~silver league TvP stalkers? Nothing too pro, low league players rip me a new one if I play like on those pro replays


If you're having a problem when Protoss mass stalkers, it really is kinda one of those builds you have to scout properly and then counter. Marauders should definitely have concussive grenade upgrade as well as medivacs with them. I am pretty sure you can support 3 rax making just marauders on 1 base and 1 making marine (no reactor).

EDIT- THEY BOUGHT BACK METALOPOLIS FOR 1V1!!! ;D


----------



## Fortunex

Better have close positions disabled. If they do then it'll be a good/fun map.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15448661*
> I play T. Everything has less range than stalkers, and 1/2 health and damage. Rauders are waay to slow to produce, and marines get raped like... well, lets just say it's pretty bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone share a replay of ~silver league TvP stalkers? Nothing too pro, low league players rip me a new one if I play like on those pro replays


It'd be better if you post a replay of you losing. I'm pretty sure your problem isn't stalkers.


----------



## DoomDash

Stalkers are easy to beat as T, Zealots are harder even.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15448661*
> I play T. Everything has less range than stalkers, and 1/2 health and damage. Rauders are waay to slow to produce, and marines get raped like... well, lets just say it's pretty bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone share a replay of ~silver league TvP stalkers? Nothing too pro, low league players rip me a new one if I play like on those pro replays


I play T and have worked my way through the low leagues to Plat.

I'm assuming you are talking about the ever so annoying early stalker pressure vs. marines. Yes, this does suck if you are doing a gas-less FE or something.

You can either 13 Gas, tech lab on 1st rax for a Marauder and conc ASAP or just make a bunker at your ramp till you feel safe.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15449211*
> I play T and have worked my way through the low leagues to Plat.
> 
> I'm assuming you are talking about the ever so annoying early stalker pressure vs. marines. Yes, this does suck if you are doing a gas-less FE or something.
> 
> You can either 13 Gas, tech lab on 1st rax for a Marauder and conc ASAP or just make a bunker at your ramp till you feel safe.


Thanks







Bunker sounds good. I try to get as many rauders as I can with shells, but P still has 2-3 more units than I do. shells are good for chasing stalkers down, or microing, but since I suck at micro, and P doens't think about running away with his supperior force, I have had serious trouble with the rauder way. Will try bunker


----------



## Alex132

I love storms, just got like 40-50 kills from them









And played one intense game ><

Didn't macro well in some parts, also almost disconnected like 10 times D:

But still in the same league, upper plat :/


----------



## HometownHero

Here's the official map pool changes for anyone interested: 1v1 Ladder Pool Changes

Blizz removed close-spawns on Metal though







RIP Bunker Rushes


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Here's the official map pool changes for anyone interested: 1v1 Ladder Pool Changes

Blizz removed close-spawns on Metal though







RIP Bunker Rushes


Nerazim Crypt

HATE THIS MAP SO MUCH.

>


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Nerazim Crypt

HATE THIS MAP SO MUCH.

>










Yeah, I guess they listened this time around.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Just played my placement match. Placed in Gold again. Forever gold.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Just played my placement match. Placed in Gold again. Forever gold.










Your matchmaking value doesn't change between seasons, which is probably why you're getting placed in gold.


----------



## QuadDamage

I might try to throw my matchs to get ranked lower ahah


----------



## CravinR1

PvZ for my Season 4 1v1 placement ......... got beat by a zerg who was gold. He got promoted to top platinum and I stayed gold :-/

So now I'm going to play 10 1v1's a day til i'm plat


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


So now I'm going to play 10 1v1's a day til i'm plat


That's what I wanted to do, but unfortunately my ladder anxiety keeps me from doing that. That and I always rage and get discouraged and quit when I lose, so it's not really good for me, haha.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


That's what I wanted to do, but unfortunately my ladder anxiety keeps me from doing that. That and I always rage and get discouraged and quit when I lose, so it's not really good for me, haha.


I had ladder anxiety too until I just said [email protected]# it. Just have to convince yourself that rank doesnt matter. No one is judging you because of your sc2 rank... Psych yourself up to play and it can get really satisfying to play. Worked for me.

Also, new PTR notes. They finally got ahold of the ghost..


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


No one is judging you because of your sc2 rank...


Eh. People at school berate me all the time for being in Gold, they mark me as a dumbass and an idiot, it's really degrading. But I guess that's not my problem, lol


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=279316

Awesome! This and new ladder map pool. It seems Blizzard is learning.


----------



## DoomDash

AS a terran : EMP nerf, ok. shield cost reduction for toss, ok.

armor and attack cost reduction for toss.... ***?


----------



## poroboszcz

It's gonna be 150/150 cheaper to get 3/3 now. It's like a zealot and a sentry. I don't think it's gonna break anything. EMP nerf is quite big though.


----------



## iambald

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*


Eh. People at school berate me all the time for being in Gold, they mark me as a dumbass and an idiot, it's really degrading. But I guess that's not my problem, lol


lol gold scrub


----------



## CravinR1

I don't get intimidated, I had been doing very well and beating plats regularly. But I didn't want to drop my MMR so the past couple weeks I hadn't been playing ......... so of course today I was rusty and got freaking gold instead of plat


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


I don't get intimidated, I had been doing very well and beating plats regularly. But I didn't want to drop my MMR so the past couple weeks I hadn't been playing ......... so of course today I was rusty and got freaking gold instead of plat


Your league standing isn't based on that one placement match, you know that right? I was Silver season 2, lost my Season 3 placement match and got placed into Gold. That one placement match doesn't mean a thing


----------



## Fortunex

The placement match is just to weed out inactive players.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


AS a terran : EMP nerf, ok. shield cost reduction for toss, ok.

armor and attack cost reduction for toss.... ***?


Great, upgraded zealots even easier to get..


----------



## Arkuatic

Any1 here in masters here need a practice partner? Was top 10 masters this and last season but took a break and need to get back to it. Plz lemme know- no sub masters plz


----------



## Sangers_low

Darn cross pos disabled? >_> Should i switch BACK to zerg?


----------



## iambald

Pretty sure it was close positions that was removed...


----------



## Mwarren

1/1/1 TvP is still too powerful. I'm on a 10+ game win streak right now doing nothing but the 1/1/1. Get cloak banshees and push out with one raven with 1 pdd around the 11 minute mark. Don't get siege as its useless TvP and make sure to pull at least 3/4's of your workers.

Thank me later







. I think to fix this problem immortals should have a range upgrade available at their robo and another upgrade that doubles their shields to 200 available from the robo only after they have a twilight council. Both of those combined should deal with a 1/1/1 nicely as right now TvP almost feels too easy.

It would also make immortals more viable late game as they would require 2 emps instead of 1 and vs zerg they would be able to handle lings/roachs better.


----------



## Twistacles

^ Not in masters. If they 1gate expand/nexus first it shuts 1-1-1 down so hard it's silly.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;15456636*
> ^ Not in masters. If they 1gate expand/nexus first it shuts 1-1-1 down so hard it's silly.


Not in masters? Might want to check the first post in this thread with my SC2 rank....I am a master leaguer and 1 gate fe and nexus first both lose to my 1/1/1.....I don't know of anything that can beat it actually. The new patch that's buffing protoss's tech is just going to give me more incentive to continue to refine my 1/1/1.


----------



## yks

Yeah, mwarren is masters. and he probably plays more than anyone in this entire thread.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15456680*
> Not in masters?


are you "Sovern" in game?

have so many people from OCN added sorry...









how do you 1-1-1 lols, i'm still a newby plat always coming up with random builds...


----------



## CravinR1

Well in gold/platinum 15 nexus beats 1-1-1 pretty hard.

Maybe Mwarren is just a above average player


----------



## Fortunex

If I was going 1/1/1 and scouted a Nexus first I would immediately stop 1/1/1 and go 2-3 rax.

But I don't play Terran, so...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15457419*
> If I was going 1/1/1 and scouted a Nexus first I would immediately stop 1/1/1 and go 2-3 rax.
> 
> But I don't play Terran, so...


The thing is you chrono out stalkers/zealots asap


----------



## Fortunex

You've still dropped 400 minerals on a nexus that the Terran has put into units/unit making structures.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;15457717*
> How in the world can 15 nexus beat 1-1-1 terran that comes with a marine tank raven/banshee push, or even just cloaked banshees. Sounds so absurd.


It's because due to mules a 1 base terran is going to get better income than 1 base protoss. To stay equal in terms of economy protoss needs to expand, but standard ~6 minutes expansion timing is too late for the protoss to capitalize on it before the 1/1/1 push comes. Thus nexus first or 1 gate expo has the best chance on holding a standard 1/1/1, because by the time the push comes the expansion has already paid for itself.

However there is a variation of 1/1/1, recently popular on EU ladder that attacks around 6 minutes mark with a tank + 4-5 repairing SCVs and a bunch of marines which is almost impossible to hold with 1 gate expo, but makes staying on 1 base viable against the push that comes later, since terran loses some SCVs early. 15 nexus is not safe on most maps in general and is pretty much based on luck or terran not knowing how to react.


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;15458682*
> Obviously that's not going to be case for upper diamond to pros. No way would a 15 nexus hold off any well timed terran 1-1-1 push.


lol. Early nexus beats 1/1/1, loses to 2rax and marine tank timing.
Read poro's post for explanation

And poro, stuff that goes on 6-7 min is marine tank timing, not 1/1/1. U gotta get a starport to be called 1/1/1


----------



## Twistacles

Yes it will. 1-1-1 hits at ~9 minutes. That's plenty of time for a 1gate expo or a 15 nexus to pay for itself in the form of a ****ton of zealots. After that it's just a matter of catching him unsieged and laughing.

It's not that hard to stop. Try going 1 gate expo>add 3 gates>robo>double forge

You'll never lose a pvt again


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iambald;15455875*
> Pretty sure it was close positions that was removed...


facepalm D: typo lol


----------



## Sangers_low

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15456680*
> Not in masters? Might want to check the first post in this thread with my SC2 rank....I am a master leaguer and 1 gate fe and nexus first both lose to my 1/1/1.....I don't know of anything that can beat it actually. The new patch that's buffing protoss's tech is just going to give me more incentive to continue to refine my 1/1/1.


chargelot+immortal heavy, quick colo or mix some penix. Just don't take too much damage from the banshee and try to "earn" some time when u see the terran coming out by faking engagements mid map to provoke siege. Such stuff should get u 1 or 2 extra warpgate cycle.


----------



## ronnin426850

Can I change the region of Starter Edition? For some reason I'm playing US.. I don't think it ever asked me..


----------



## roberT_

When I 1-1-1 I push out at around 9:20. I've won my last 4 games against toss doing it gold/plat.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_;15459157*
> When I 1-1-1 I push out at around 9:20. I've won my last 4 games against toss doing it gold/plat.


If you have the apm, its worth it to immediately send your first banshee to their mineral line and constantly be a nuisance. Later, when you push, you have that banshee there to kill workers/divide his army.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15459287*
> If you have the apm, its worth it to immediately send your first banshee to their mineral line and constantly be a nuisance. Later, when you push, you have that banshee there to kill workers/divide his army.


Yes I've been doing that. It shows him I've gone banshee so that he makes more stalkers for my PDD


----------



## DoomDash

I only 1-1-1 for fun. I stlil prefer bio, besides maybe on alter.


----------



## yks

I've been talking about 1-1-1 since Scrap Station was in the map pool. When it got popular, I felt like a fortune teller.

edit: and back then siege tanks did 50dmg to all.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15458916*
> Can I change the region of Starter Edition? For some reason I'm playing US.. I don't think it ever asked me..


I couldn't say for certain, but my guess would be that each starter edition download is localised, so if you downloaded it from the .com website it would be US version, if you want to play on a different server you would probably have to go via the /eu website or whatever.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Yes it will. 1-1-1 hits at ~9 minutes. That's plenty of time for a 1gate expo or a 15 nexus to pay for itself in the form of a ****ton of zealots. After that it's just a matter of catching him unsieged and laughing.

It's not that hard to stop. Try going 1 gate expo>add 3 gates>robo>double forge

You'll never lose a pvt again


Getting siege tech going 1/1/1 is useless.....I've tested this out and have came to that conclusion after watching the replays where I lost. Ever since I stopped getting siege and invested that gas into a raven before I push I have yet to lose a TvP.....

The reason why siege is useless is that Toss units are very beefy and tanks out of siege mode do more DPS vs sieged tanks. The splash damage dealt to toss is negligible and not worth the 100 gas and lower dps.

Not to mention that going into siege mode with your tanks makes you very vulnerable to the toss focus firing your tanks/kiting making them completely useless.


----------



## DoomDash

No siege, I will have to try that. Send me reps!!!


----------



## rhed5

do u guys get the +1 and the combat shield? I've been doing so, and it become sso much more deadlier


----------



## roberT_

I've been getting siege when I do this 1-1-1 toss push so far. I will admit I'm still very new to the strategy though, but I think there is at least ONE advantage to getting siege.

When toss has a ramp that can be easily force fielded and is playing defensive (perhaps cause he saw the push coming), I use my tanks with banshee sight to shell the crap out of him while he sits near his ramp.

I think there are a number of viable 1-1-1 combinations to be honest. Just more than one right answer.

The main risk for going tanks is that it makes you vulnerable to getting attacked while you are moving out.

I normally don't get banshee cloak when I do this also, so I guess if I cut tanks I should get the +1 and combat shields =). I'll be trying both ways I think.


----------



## DoomDash

You Tube


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK3v6zRrVqo&


This guys is such a ******..

"I-I-It, nooat actually a... new? unit? It's a.."

Anyway, Shredder - finally a ramp defense/siege for me!







Great unit, terran was missing it. At least I was









The new thor?


----------



## DoomDash

Now that I am playing SCII I am just getting CRUSHED at my old MMR. Feels like I'm a level below these guys.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *roberT_*


I've been getting siege when I do this 1-1-1 toss push so far. I will admit I'm still very new to the strategy though, but I think there is at least ONE advantage to getting siege.

When toss has a ramp that can be easily force fielded and is playing defensive (perhaps cause he saw the push coming), I use my tanks with banshee sight to shell the crap out of him while he sits near his ramp.

I think there are a number of viable 1-1-1 combinations to be honest. Just more than one right answer.

The main risk for going tanks is that it makes you vulnerable to getting attacked while you are moving out.

I normally don't get banshee cloak when I do this also, so I guess if I cut tanks I should get the +1 and combat shields =). I'll be trying both ways I think.



1 1 1 takes no skill and is dumb op....


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Getting siege tech going 1/1/1 is useless.....I've tested this out and have came to that conclusion after watching the replays where I lost. Ever since I stopped getting siege and invested that gas into a raven before I push I have yet to lose a TvP.....

The reason why siege is useless is that Toss units are very beefy and tanks out of siege mode do more DPS vs sieged tanks. The splash damage dealt to toss is negligible and not worth the 100 gas and lower dps.

Not to mention that going into siege mode with your tanks makes you very vulnerable to the toss focus firing your tanks/kiting making them completely useless.



tell that to every gsl player who get siege and also how siege does well vs stalkers and you are SUPPOSED to target the stalkers so the banshees dont die and u just auto win


----------



## ntherblast

Anyone want to team up add me RoRO #443


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eosgreen*


tell that to every gsl player who get siege and also how siege does well vs stalkers and you are SUPPOSED to target the stalkers so the banshees dont die and u just auto win


A good Toss player will have zealots/immortals/and stalkers all focus firing your tanks, they will also kite you all of the way to their base and try to force an engagement before you hit their base. I actually got the idea of not getting siege from the top NA terran streams.

It's mainly personal preference though because if you get siege and cloak you wont be able to get out a raven in time for a 10-12 minute push which can disable their stalkers and allow you to snipe obs so that your cloak banshees can focus fire immortals/collosus without worrying about stalkers being able to see them. So your banshees wont die if you have a raven, get out a pdd and focus fire the obs.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


A good Toss player will have zealots/immortals/and stalkers all focus firing your tanks, they will also kite you all of the way to their base and try to force an engagement before you hit their base. I actually got the idea of not getting siege from the top NA terran streams.

It's mainly personal preference though because if you get siege and cloak you wont be able to get out a raven in time for a 10-12 minute push which can disable their stalkers and allow you to snipe obs so that your cloak banshees can focus fire immortals/collosus without worrying about stalkers being able to see them. So your banshees wont die if you have a raven, get out a pdd and focus fire the obs.


Puma's 1/1/1 hits before 10 minutes with siege, cloak and a raven.


----------



## Kyronn94

Hey there









I've had the starter edition of SC II for ages but only just started playing after Blizzcon 2011. 
Watching the tournament on the live stream persuaded me to start playing









After winning 1 of about 6 custom 2 vs 2 games and letting many team mates down, I've come to two conclusions:
1. I suck.
2. Star jeweled is a brilliant idea.

Then I thought:
'I'm pretty sure I've seen a strategy thread on OCN'
And there we have it, 1700 pages of SC II intelligence









Hope to pick up a few tips from the thread and Day9, love his commentary on the live streams









Anyway, this is my way of saying hi.









Although I should probably get the full game first.

Cheers.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*


Hey there









I've had the starter edition of SC II for ages but only just started playing after Blizzcon 2011. 
Watching the tournament on the live stream persuaded me to start playing









After winning 1 of about 6 custom 2 vs 2 games and letting many team mates down, I've come to two conclusions:
1. I suck.
2. Star jeweled is a brilliant idea.

Then I thought:
'I'm pretty sure I've seen a strategy thread on OCN'
And there we have it, 1700 pages of SC II intelligence









Hope to pick up a few tips from the thread and Day9, love his commentary on the live streams









Anyway, this is my way of saying hi.









Although I should probably get the full game first.

Cheers.


Hi, great to have another noob here! Certainly add me ingame, my SC2 name is the same as my forum nick. We'll share some low-lever terran strategy







I can brag with about 50-50% win-loss in custom games


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15465674*
> Puma's 1/1/1 hits before 10 minutes with siege, cloak and a raven.


Yo, do you got a replay of this bro? Want to study it a tad.


----------



## CravinR1

Here is a game I played today PvT

I 15 Nexus, the terran 2 raxed and bunkered my expo and took it out

I chrono'd out units from my 3 gates (using 2 nexus) I got enough to hold off the aggression. Then the last part of the video is my push into the Terran's third (when I had a 4th going up)

He did a drop and took out my robo, however I already had my 4 colossus and thats all I make. He tried to nuke me but I had 2 obs, one over my army and one over his. I know I killed my own obs with my storms









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChefA...ature=youtu.be


----------



## ronnin426850

I want to hear someone justifying zergling rush. Because this is the sole most DUMB thing that has ever happened in PC gaming world.
How come zerg gets units with higer DPS and speed than marines, (and in mass numbers too) in the first 5 min!?!?!?!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I want to hear someone justifying zergling rush. Because this is the sole most DUMB thing that has ever happened in PC gaming world.
How come zerg gets units with higer DPS and speed than marines, (and in mass numbers too) in the first 5 min!?!?!?!


If they are massing lings, you should be ahead as a T. They have to cut workers to make lings and you should absolutely be blocked in by 5 minutes at your main. If you 1 rax expand, I highly recommend you sim city your natural with a bunker that's able to cover the mineral line but prevents a run by in your main. Thorzain is the first pro that comes to mind that does this a lot vs zerg.

Also, anyone running sc2 off of a SSD? Thinking of getting one to stick sc2, windows, and bf3 on it.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Also, anyone running sc2 off of a SSD? Thinking of getting one to stick sc2, windows, and bf3 on it.


Yup

Loads so fast


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Also, anyone running sc2 off of a SSD? Thinking of getting one to stick sc2, windows, and bf3 on it.


for windows okay, but it's not worth it for SC2, i've done it before and it seems like a waste since you almost always have to wait for your opponent(s) to load.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I want to hear someone justifying zergling rush. Because this is the sole most DUMB thing that has ever happened in PC gaming world.
How come zerg gets units with higer DPS and speed than marines, (and in mass numbers too) in the first 5 min!?!?!?!


I'm not sure if your serious or not but ill respond anyway









Early ling rushes are an all in so i assume your not talking about a cheesy 6 pool.

after that you should have a wall off up and some units out, effectively countering any Ling rushes.

lings have 0 range and as such only the close rank can hit the target where as marines can "all" shoot at once. not to mention the whole marines also shooting air thing or stim or combat shields or medivacs.

or the every 2 lings you build is one less worker thing. Any early zergling move is an all in and an easy one to counter at that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


Yup

Loads so fast


Good to hear I just bought a Samsung 830 series ^^.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15466855*
> Yo, do you got a replay of this bro? Want to study it a tad.


http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season6/cologne/sc2/playoffs/download/25711878/

http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.majorleaguegaming.com/replays/183-18834.sc2replay


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15472755*
> I want to hear someone justifying zergling rush. Because this is the sole most DUMB thing that has ever happened in PC gaming world.
> How come zerg gets units with higer DPS and speed than marines, (and in mass numbers too) in the first 5 min!?!?!?!


Zerglings don't have higher DPS than marines, they're melee ranged, they take up a LOT of larvae (which means the Zerg isn't making workers), most early zergling rushes can be held off with just workers, and if you get your wall up with a single marine behind it, it will never die no matter how many zerglings the guy gets.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15476959*
> http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season6/cologne/sc2/playoffs/download/25711878/
> 
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.majorleaguegaming.com/replays/183-18834.sc2replay


Thanks.

Now I see people saying Snipe is OP.

Will it ever end?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15478875*
> Zerglings don't have higher DPS than marines, they're melee ranged, they take up a LOT of larvae (which means the Zerg isn't making workers), most early zergling rushes can be held off with just workers, and if you get your wall up with a single marine behind it, it will never die no matter how many zerglings the guy gets.


Not true, the wall falls fast. Not enough time for double depot, so either 1rax 2depot or 2rax 1dep. In both cases dept goes down, terran goes down. In 10 sec. max


----------



## Fortunex

No, you can repair infinitely. Zerglings alone can't take down a wall being repaired (maybe with max upgrades + adrenal glands?).

If he's hitting before your wall is up, you can take out the rush with just workers.


----------



## DoomDash

Zergling rushes are ez to deal with as T.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Not true, the wall falls fast. Not enough time for double depot, so either 1rax 2depot or 2rax 1dep. In both cases dept goes down, terran goes down. In 10 sec. max


Not sure if trolling...

Just pull scvs to repair. Z is down at this point because he sacrifices workers for lings that cant get in your base. Just keep pumping marines and scvs.


----------



## iambald

I'm considering a Starcraft reference in one of my MIT application essays. y/n


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


If they are massing lings, you should be ahead as a T. They have to cut workers to make lings and you should absolutely be blocked in by 5 minutes at your main. If you 1 rax expand, I highly recommend you sim city your natural with a bunker that's able to cover the mineral line but prevents a run by in your main. Thorzain is the first pro that comes to mind that does this a lot vs zerg.

Also, anyone running sc2 off of a SSD? Thinking of getting one to stick sc2, windows, and bf3 on it.


Yeah, I am. Just can't decide between playing BF3 or SC2


----------



## BigFan

Hi all,
Been really busy lately, so, I haven't had time and won't have any time to play SCII or make any changes to the OP, etc... I talked to Sainsek and he said he was interested in taking over, so, I'll leave the thread to him unless anyone has any objection at which point you guys are obviously free to decide who leads this thread. Just make sure that a mod reads this since I don't visit OCN much anymore and won't be able to reply to any messages in good time.
Good Luck to all and I'm sure I'll be back for a while once HoTS hits and we get to play with all the new micro units









BigFan


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Not true, the wall falls fast. Not enough time for double depot, so either 1rax 2depot or 2rax 1dep. In both cases dept goes down, terran goes down. In 10 sec. max


Now I know your either trolling or you really need to learn how repair works....


----------



## ronnin426850

I'm not trolling, you fools, didn't you get it for 100 pages of stupid questions?

I'M A N00B. Total. I play Starter. I get ass kicked on regular basis. So enough with the stupid "not sure if" questions.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I'm not trolling, you fools, didn't you get it for 100 pages of stupid questions?

I'M A N00B. Total. I play Starter. I get ass kicked on regular basis. So enough with the stupid "not sure if" questions.










that being the case perhaps responding less like.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


*Not true*, the wall falls fast. Not enough time for double depot, so either 1rax 2depot or 2rax 1dep. In both cases dept goes down, *terran goes down. In 10 sec. max*


and more with asking for advice might be sensible. there are allot of decent players around who can give you a few basic pointers. but if when someone tells you you need to wall off or use workers and your struggling with that then really you should try it and if it doesnt work ask for more pointers or where your going wrong.

People will not treat you like a troll if you dont act like one.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


that being the case perhaps responding less like.

and more with asking for advice might be sensible. there are allot of decent players around who can give you a few basic pointers. but if when someone tells you you need to wall off or use workers and your struggling with that then really you should try it and if it doesnt work ask for more pointers or where your going wrong.

People will not treat you like a troll if you dont act like one.


Well yeah, you're right, sorry for overreacting. I am a bit strained of all those losses


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=280168


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Well yeah, you're right, sorry for overreacting. I am a bit strained of all those losses










My apologies then. Like I said though, when you get that wall up (which should happen before lings from a 6 pool hit your base) pull 2-3 scv's to repair and even just 1 marine should be able to drive them away. After a 6-pool, you are going to be way ahead.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=280168


Korean scene is about to get scary good.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=280168


made my day


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15479546*
> Not true, the wall falls fast. Not enough time for double depot, so either 1rax 2depot or 2rax 1dep. In both cases dept goes down, terran goes down. In 10 sec. max


If your wall went down then you reacted too slowly to get your repair going. Another thing I'll add here is that if you've scouted properly you should know this is coming, and you will be more prepared to react quickly when they arrive (or you could per-imptively pull a few workers even).


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15484891*
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=280168


I like Proleague and all butttttttttttttttt... I don't know any of the players other than the famous ones! And watching a teamleague w/o knowing any of the players is like idk, weird!

Hopefully KeSPA will allow them to play with GOM, but if they keep them locked to KeSPA only sanctioned events, idk how that'll play out. Because I want live-english commentary!

But if KeSPA allows them to play outside of Proleague. The GSL will be POPPING, son.


----------



## Sainesk

Okay, so I updated the original post, here are the changes I have made so far:

- Added official HOTS trailer

- Added Blizzard DOTA trailer (probably going to be Blizzard's most successful/played official custom game to date)

- Added current season and 1v1 maps in current season (in case someone forgets a map name or something and can't currently go into the game to look it up. Also added a future seasons spot which I will update with things like dates the new season starts etc.

- Added HOTS new units preview trailers (thanks DoomDash for the links!)

feel free to let me know what else should be added/removed from the original post and i'll do my best to keep it up to date!


----------



## CravinR1

So I did my standard 15 nexus PvT opener vs a plat terran. The other guy started producing alot of vikings after he saw my first 3 colossus, so I switched to HT's

So he had vikings, tanks, marauders vs charged zealots, blink stalkers, HT's (I should've grabbed immortals but didn't)

  
 You Tube


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


So I did my standard 15 nexus PvT opener vs a plat terran. The other guy started producing alot of vikings after he saw my first 3 colossus, so I switched to HT's

So he had vikings, tanks, marauders vs charged zealots, blink stalkers, HT's (I should've grabbed immortals but didn't)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpwsgoAGVDw


Let's just say there's a reason playing with Terran is free


----------



## CravinR1

I wish my PvZ was as good as my PvT









My PvP is ok ........ cause I Korean 4 gate and win 90% of my games


----------



## Fortunex

You should try getting more of your army attacking, you can see there in the first fight and for the beginning of the second fight only 1 line of 8-10 stalkers was actually attacking while the rest were stuck in the back. If you stutterstep your stalkers into the fight, you can get your whole army attacking without losing any DPS in the meantime.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


You should try getting more of your army attacking, you can see there in the first fight and for the beginning of the second fight only 1 line of 8-10 stalkers was actually attacking while the rest were stuck in the back. If you stutterstep your stalkers into the fight, you can get your whole army attacking without losing any DPS in the meantime.


I actually did see that when watching the replay. I usually A move my main force then select the HTs so I can start storming

However in the second fight I had to blink cause he had a awesome concave and only the first 2 rows were hitting. I was up 40 food, then it was even, then when the HTs came in I went up 20 (killed his army)

I see mistakes I make. ie not having my entire army attacking (should've blinked in MUCH earlier with the 40 stalkers) and I could've lost alot fewer of my zealots that first engagement (went from 20 to 3) if i'd placed my storms better.

Guess thats why I'm still gold


----------



## Dr216

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Let's just say there's a reason playing with Terran is free










Its the single player race.

And the easiest race to play for beginers as its almost completely imune to cheese they are 1 base kings of the bronze/silver legue and mules mean that even if you suck at building workers your econ doesnt actuly suck that bad?

Least thats my guess.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


Its the single player race.

And the easiest race to play for beginers as its almost completely imune to cheese they are 1 base kings of the bronze/silver legue and mules mean that even if you suck at building workers your econ doesnt actuly suck that bad?

Least thats my guess.


I meant because it gives leverage to paid players, and, abiet successful bronze/silver play, makes people buy the game for serious winning.

I see a lot of people claiming marines and mules are OP. Please. Compared to Z and P, that is just a joke. Marines OP? Zerg kills 150 worth of marines in 3 sec. Protoss takes a bit longer with storms, but still. Tanks are a good unit, but not OP, so don't compensate for anything. Air units are the same. Thor is good for nothing. Or more accurately - it's no good for everything. Health not enough, easy to target, low DPS.

So tell me, what good is a mule vs anything other than another Terran? So ok, you don't need to expand. You're still ass-wipped in any battle, and the replay above proves it - that was one stable terran army, decimated in 10 sec by P, even if P doesn't micro.

How is that ugly green rolling zerg thing called?


----------



## pale_neon

You Tube


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pale_neon*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kAJSswZPvI


EPIC!! THIS is how large a BC is, Blizzard.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


You're still ass-wipped in any battle, and the replay above proves it - that was one stable terran army, decimated in 10 sec by P, even if P doesn't micro.


ass-whipped or ass-wiped not ass-wipped (since you're a grammar nazi)









And it took me 40 seconds (20 seconds per engagement)

+ I had 3-3-1 and he was 2-2 and I was on 4 bases and he was on 3


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CravinR1*


ass-whipped or ass-wiped not ass-wipped (since you're a grammar nazi)









And it took me 40 seconds (20 seconds per engagement)

+ I had 3-3-1 and he was 2-2 and I was on 4 bases and he was on 3










Thanks. It's 2AM here, so the grammar nazi in me is asleep.


----------



## HarrisLam

anyone here stopped playing and will only resume after bonus pool grows big enough? lol


----------



## ronnin426850

StarCraft2 is very far from what I call a good RTS, and I'm deleting it. Gave it a chance, for far too long. RTS lover as I am can't stand this anymore. Way too arcade for my taste. Bye, guys.


----------



## Fortunex

Bye.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15492001*
> I meant because it gives leverage to paid players, and, abiet successful bronze/silver play, makes people buy the game for serious winning.
> 
> I see a lot of people claiming marines and mules are OP. Please. Compared to Z and P, that is just a joke. Marines OP? Zerg kills 150 worth of marines in 3 sec. Protoss takes a bit longer with storms, but still. Tanks are a good unit, but not OP, so don't compensate for anything. Air units are the same. Thor is good for nothing. Or more accurately - it's no good for everything. Health not enough, easy to target, low DPS.
> 
> So tell me, what good is a mule vs anything other than another Terran? So ok, you don't need to expand. You're still ass-wipped in any battle, and the replay above proves it - that was one stable terran army, decimated in 10 sec by P, even if P doesn't micro.
> 
> How is that ugly green rolling zerg thing called?


If you only build marines and dont properly support them you deserve to loose them all to banelings, but with proper tank support thats very hard for a lower level player to achieve descisive baneling hits. marines have very high dps can kite very well can be healed by medivacs and are effective vs almost every type of enemy unit. mix in some maruaders to soak up banelings if your still strugling.

And the mule compared to chrono boost and particularly lavea inject is very forgiving, if you forget to inject on time you wasted an inject if you forget mules untill 150 energy you can just drop them all at once.

In late game mules mean you can sacrifice all but your gas workers to build a much much bigger 200/200 army as unlike your opponant you dont have to keep 70 food worth of workers.

I wouldnt say marines are OP just very good and versitile mules are a very effective crutch for bad players but at higher levels become less OP except in the late game.

That vid showed nothing except that if you a T builds viking and you dont actualy use colosus he looses, thats him failing to scout nothing to do with racial balance.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15496365*
> StarCraft2 is very far from what I call a good RTS, and I'm deleting it. Gave it a chance, for far too long. RTS lover as I am can't stand this anymore. Way too arcade for my taste. Bye, guys.


Sorry to see you go. Its definitely more fast paced than other RTS.


----------



## Alex132

SC2 is extremely economy based as an RTS, if that's not your thing then so be it


----------



## HarrisLam

im pretty noob, but i just wanna say one thing:
marine tank then occasional thors seem to be the norm against zerg. the fact that marine tank is STILL the way to go against mass banelings ALONE should tell you something about them marines.

they are the only real solution to muta, i know, but bottomline marines *can* survive banelings if you're good enough

I know im not









PS: what is an arcade RTS?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;15496526*
> And the mule compared to chrono boost and particularly lavea inject is very forgiving, if you forget to inject on time you wasted an inject if you forget mules untill 150 energy you can just drop them all at once.
> 
> In late game mules mean you can sacrifice all but your gas workers to build a much much bigger 200/200 army as unlike your opponant you dont have to keep 70 food worth of workers.


I disagree. Mules are energy based, if you and the Terran are out of position and are unable to defend your mineral lines and thus go ahead and attack opponents mineral line (base trade scenario), the terran can not only lift off and save most of his structures, but IF you are able to warp in and beat back the terran, if he kills all your probes he can just mule his way back to a good economy and come back to win.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216;15496526*
> That vid showed nothing except that if you a T builds viking and you dont actualy use colosus he looses, thats him failing to scout nothing to do with racial balance.


When I went to take my third, I had some sentries, stalkers and 3 colossus. He came with 4 siege tanks marines/rauders/ and 5 vikings I engaged but had to cancel my third, all my sentires + 2 colossus were killed when I pulled back from the sieged tanks. The thing is I had already switched to HTs (I generally only make 4 or 5 colossus then try to get 4-6 HTs in case of mass vikings)


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;15498221*
> PS: what is an arcade RTS?


I think he was trying to describe how fast paced the game is.


----------



## BulletsLikeBlades

Anyone know where I can get this game decently cheap? I found the collectors edition for 79.99 off of some no name site and the regular for 45.99 .. but that's cheapest i've seen. I know regular goes for 39.99 sometimes but I can't find it


----------



## CravinR1

I got my key for like $30 or $35 when ti first came out from Jago


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


I think he was trying to describe how fast paced the game is.


thats the exciting/hard part of it though

if its not fast paced, it will shift towards just normal strat games

to me, starcraft is the easier dragon age origins but without the ability to STOP THE WORLD FROM SPINNING

about 1~2 months ago i was close to finishing DA the first time, and I found a little time to play SC ladder, at some point of the game I actually went "mother fuc can I pause and think for a moment?" in my mind


----------



## HometownHero

Anyone have thoughts on this new wave reaper over hellion harass in early TvZ?

I've just started to use it a little and it seems to work best when you show your hellions early, Z overreacts with spines and sim city in the natural, and then send reapers up to the main with hellions to natural 10 seconds later.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15508348*
> Anyone have thoughts on this new wave reaper over hellion harass in early TvZ?
> 
> I've just started to use it a little and it seems to work best when you show your hellions early, Z overreacts with spines and sim city in the natural, and then send reapers up to the main with hellions to natural 10 seconds later.


Against Zerg it can be very good I guess, I love to block off my main when hellions come and then when reapers come into the main it will mean that their are less roaches / queen(s) to deal with them.

But because you're wanting to get hellions + reapers it will mean a longer delay and the Zerg could have more units than if you did this earlier on and thus would be able to hold it off more easily.

This strat wouldn't really work against protoss because of stalkers, and against terran because of the walloff (if they do choose to walloff) But you might strike lucky


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15508398*
> Against Zerg it can be very good I guess, I love to block off my main when hellions come and then when reapers come into the main it will mean that their are less roaches / queen(s) to deal with them.
> 
> But because you're wanting to get hellions + reapers it will mean a longer delay and the Zerg could have more units than if you did this earlier on and thus would be able to hold it off more easily.
> 
> This strat wouldn't really work against protoss because of stalkers, and against terran because of the walloff (if they do choose to walloff) But you might strike lucky


Yeah, vT I would much rather get a banshee over reapers. I have been getting 3 reapers and 2 hellions before I go. It usually hits a little before 6 minutes. You can 1 shot drones with 3 reapers and I can usually grab 4 or 5 before they figure out whats going on. Do you drop spines in your main ever to deal with hellions?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15508468*
> Yeah, vT I would much rather get a banshee over reapers. I have been getting 3 reapers and 2 hellions before I go. It usually hits a little before 6 minutes. You can 1 shot drones with 3 reapers and I can usually grab 4 or 5 before they figure out whats going on. Do you drop spines in your main ever to deal with hellions?


I'm sure you can 1 shot with 2 reapers?

Oddly enough I have never played against reaper play before when playing as Zerg.

Heck like 15 of my matches have been ZvZ, which I have won about 11 of them xD (Thank you NesTea







)

If I saw some early pressure build with Hellions (depending on the map too) I would normally make 1-2 spine crawlers maybe an extra queen or two and try to get a better economy through more droning or taking a quick third and taking a lot later gas. But it all depends on the terran's follow-up


----------



## DoomDash

My last 4 TvT's each T opened up 3+ reapers.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15508554*
> My last 4 TvT's each T opened up 3+ reapers.


This could be good on maps like Xel'Naga Caverns









I feel like trying this now









Also what do people think of difficulty between regions?

I know only play 1v1's on my US account and mainly team games on my EU account.

I am actually kinda worried of getting into a bad league in EU 1v1 because it is supposedly a lot harder


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15508554*
> My last 4 TvT's each T opened up 3+ reapers.


Do you bother with nitro packs?

I'd imagine team games in EU are harder. I've heard US is the weakest region.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15508778*
> Do you bother with nitro packs?
> 
> I'd imagine team games in EU are harder. I've heard US is the weakest region.


Well... I am all top 3 - top 25 masters in EU for team games, but only top 8 plat in US for 1v1.

Blizzard should REALLY make SC2 region-free, there is like NO lag. Heck I am in South Africa, which is really far away the from US.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15508778*
> Do you bother with nitro packs?
> 
> I'd imagine team games in EU are harder. I've heard US is the weakest region.


I wasn't doing them, but no they did not. Nitro pack openings are kinda meh since it forces you to go tech you probably don't want.


----------



## HometownHero

Yeah I think I'd rather have stim earlier. Also, I'm pretty sure there is a lot of KR-US lag because all the Koreans lag at foreign tourneys.


----------



## CravinR1

http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv

Showmatches (going on now)

2pm:









4pm:









6pm:


----------



## Alex132

White-Ra looks so mean


----------



## CravinR1

he reminds me of shaun of the dead


----------



## Alex132

Dario looks so awesome


----------



## CravinR1

Pokebunny - Wil Wheaton
Sheth - Jonah Hill (superbad)


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15510708*
> Dario looks so awesome


Gotta love TLO. Hoping he posts some good results soon, the guy is always streaming/practicing; he deserves it.


----------



## CravinR1

WhiteRa over TLO 2-0, they're playing a replay atm ? then continuing series

Sheth won 4-3


----------



## Sabregod

This may seems a silly question but as a terran player, how do you counter protoss who early harasses you? The probe that he sent kills my SCV, he just pulls back to recharge then attack again







I'm still finishing my racks to wall in and he's really disrupting my builds.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Sabregod*   This may seems a silly question but as a terran player, how do you counter protoss who early harasses you? The probe that he sent kills my SCV, he just pulls back to recharge then attack again







I'm still finishing my racks to wall in and he's really disrupting my builds.  
Pull an SCV to follow his probe, and if he is really damaging your building SCV anyway hit T ( to temporarily cancel ) and attack it with both to kill it asap. You can also switch SCV's and then back up with another.

I almost did it in here vs Artosis, but as you can see the pulled SCV chased him away right before ( at 1:54 ).
  
 You Tube


----------



## Sainesk

reckon we'll get GSL maps next season? or ever?

not complaining of the current ones, but after watching too much GSL I kinda want to play on those maps...


----------



## Realityntatt

Any of you Starcraft 2 players have a cd key for sale? I am trying to get into the game but I cant spend 50$ dollars right now for the game. Thank you!!


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone tried out the HotS custom map? Apparently it gives you a taste of the new units. About to try it now.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone tried out the HotS custom map? Apparently it gives you a taste of the new units. About to try it now.


Not yet but I've heard that Shredder drops are... "effective."


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Not yet but I've heard that Shredder drops are... "effective."


Yeah I just tried that kind of, seems really brutal. I will play some more tonight, but the giant thor with sick cannons is awesome.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I tried it a few days ago. It's a really hacked version. Reserving judgement till the beta.


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Anyone tried out the HotS custom map? Apparently it gives you a taste of the new units. About to try it now.


I'm 3 and 1 on the maps so far, bunch of plat and sliver level playing. I lost to a master level player. I have been playing random, I'm still getting use to no over seers. DT's are very good in the custom maps vs zerg The Eye to give a unit detcortion is broken range is like 6 very weak and u have to cast it

Also the BC redline option can be used over and over makes for an epic scouting unit lol


----------



## HometownHero

Ugh, I cant believe I lost this game. Chalking it up to poor map positioning and a little bit of poor macro during the middle. I hate TvT...

Replay


----------



## CravinR1

Terran is my favorite match up (PvT that is)
then PvP is ok if I can 4 gate faster than they can

I hate PvZ, with a passion

Especially 3 base roach/hydra


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15525819*
> Terran is my favorite match up (PvT that is)
> then PvP is ok if I can 4 gate faster than they can
> 
> I hate PvZ, with a passion
> 
> Especially 3 base roach/hydra


Wasn't it you that was complaining about Terran a few weeks ago?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15526208*
> Wasn't it you that was complaining about Terran a few weeks ago?


I go through cycles, i've only lost 2 of the last 10 PvTs

Currently I hate PvZ (always have actually)


----------



## jprovido

what's the difference between fullscreen(windowed) and fullscreen? are their any performance cost for the windowed one like with demanding games like nexus wars etc.


----------



## Fortunex

Fullscreen windowed is borderless windowed mode, lets you alt-tab easier and such. Iunno about performance.


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Fullscreen windowed is borderless windowed mode, lets you alt-tab easier and such. Iunno about performance.


how do you put starcraft in windowed??


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realityntatt*


how do you put starcraft in windowed??


Need to go into options and look for the display/video tab, there will be an option for fullscreen, fullscreen windowed, and windowed. That's from memory so the names might be a little different.


----------



## Twistacles

I'll take any masters training partners I can get! With school I don't have much time but I don't wanna fall outta mastas!
twist.694


----------



## iARDAs

Where can I purchase this game online?

Its not on steam









And should i go for it?


----------



## Nowyn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iARDAs*


Where can I purchase this game online?

Its not on steam









And should i go for it?


You can buy it digitally through Battle.net as you can with any Blizzard game.


----------



## QuadDamage

I keep smashing masters level in the host HOTS maps. The easiest cheese is the arch shield it's SO broken! All you need is a gateway. Just do a 9 Plylon 11 Gateway, then send a probe and build 2 to 3 plylons in there base, two should finish near the mineral line. Activate the arch shield (Turns a building into a cannon for 25 seconds) You should have 100 energy on your nexus (Don't crono out any probes) IT's a ez GG and a cheese. It happen to me and I have done it two times. I have also really enjoyed doing the shredder drop. Both are very cheap

Fun map so far


----------



## Alex132

its not out yet?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


its not out yet?


I think some guy just made a custom game where you can use the HOTS units on them,

but even if he/she has all the stats and everything it doesn't mean it's "final" how they will be upon release in HOTS or that Blizz will program the units to work in the same way as people do with the SC2 editor...


----------



## QuadDamage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


I think some guy just made a custom game where you can use the HOTS units on them,

but even if he/she has all the stats and everything it doesn't mean it's "final" how they will be upon release in HOTS or that Blizz will program the units to work in the same way as people do with the SC2 editor...


The arch cannon would be nice if you are getting 6 pooled or something, but it should only be allowed to be used on a nexus or gateway or core. Is is a custom map and it's even unfair at times, I have noticed a ton of high level players have been playing Had a fun T v Z last night where i used shrewder drops vs a #2 ranked plat it was a good game 38 minutes on metal. SC


----------



## HometownHero

3 tvt losses in a row. Why do I play this game...


----------



## iambald

Bronze 2v2 is so fun. Mass HT, mass reaper, mass queen all worked hilariously


----------



## Mwarren

The HOTS maps are a joke, its very obvious that Blizzard is going to make the shredder most likely not affect workers and not be able to be loaded into a medivac. The Arc Shield will probably only be usable on production buildings and not pylons.

Personally, I'd rather see more HOTS custom maps where map makers get together with players and put in the changes that they would like to see in HOTS. I thought about making my own HOTS custom map with changes such as

Terran:

New building that allows powerful mech upgrades and enables goliaths, requires an armory.

Siege tank upgrade that increases tanks in siege modes base damage by 10 (requires the new mech building to be researched) this would help immensely vs charge lots and late game cracklings. It doesnt change the dmg that siege tanks do to armored units, just unarmored.

Goliaths are now introduced, they have an upgrade that can be obtained from the new mech building that allows them to gain +2 armor. Perfect for breaking siege lines and vs late game toss/zerg. Goliaths are considered to be a massive unit and are a mech T3 unit.

The blue flame upgrade is removed from regular hellions.

Battle Hellions are introduced, they have an upgrade available from the mech building that allows them to shoot out a blue flame that does +5 damage vs light units.

Ravens are removed and replaced with science vessels.

Thors are removed from the game.

Protoss:

Immortals now have an upgrade available from the robo bay that increases their shields to 200.

Warp prisms warp drive upgrade has been removed and replaced with an upgrade that allows warp prisms to heal the shields of protoss units, only heals their shields until they hit 0 afterward the toss unit that had its shields depleted needs to have its shields at least 1/4th of the way up before warp prism heal can take place on it again.

This would give warp prisms more utility and the shield upgrades more use.

New upgrade available from the twilight council that increases the shield regeneration rate of toss units. This further increases the effectiveness of warp prisms with the heal ability along with the shield upgrades, an almost necessary late game tech.

The collosus are gone, they have been replaced with reavers. Reavers require a robo bay to be produced.

Zerg:

Fungal Growth has been removed and has been replaced with plague.

Lurkers have been introduced.

Those are all of the base ideas that I would like to see in HOTS (obviously they're not completely balanced, that takes a lot of work). How about you guys, what would you like to see in HOTS?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nowyn*


You can buy it digitally through Battle.net as you can with any Blizzard game.


Thanks bro.

I will get it if the price gets a bit lower.

However Diablo 3 will be a day one purchase for sure.


----------



## Sainesk

This arena of legends still isn't team games right? What i'd give to see something like MVP + Nestea vs MMA + Boxer


----------



## Fortunex

So I'm switching to Terran. Played my first 5 ranked games as them yesterday in 2v2's and I'm in Plat and still winning. I don't even know a build order lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

I find mutas op.


----------



## Fortunex

Make Archons/Phoenixes/Thors + marines/turrets/Infestors.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15549238*
> So I'm switching to Terran. Played my first 5 ranked games as them yesterday in 2v2's and I'm in Plat and still winning. I don't even know a build order lol.


Solid macro mechanics can take you pretty far, I'd say mid-high plat. Once you know what to look for, cheese is easy to stop. I've heard the cheese is worse in diamond/masters.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15549280*
> I find mutas op.


I think they are better vs T than vs P!


----------



## biaxident

hello there im having some problems playing as protoss im ranked platinum and i think i dont deserve to be in plat cuz im not that good so i get stomped by every single player i duel against the only way i win its by doing 1 base push and thats all im not good at fast expanding,also mutas are a pain in the ass how to counter properly when there is a lot of them plz some help


----------



## Fortunex

Phoenix with decent micro counters Muta, as well as heavy Archon.


----------



## yks

wait, archons beat mutas!? this i did not know.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yks*


wait, archons beat mutas!? this i did not know.


They're similar to Thor's, so yeah they beat Muta's fairly hard - less now that magic boxing mutas has become popular, but they're still pretty good.


----------



## Fortunex

AoE damage, extra damage to biological, they're great against mutas.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


They're similar to Thor's, so yeah they beat Muta's fairly hard - less now that magic boxing mutas has become popular, but they're still pretty good.


If you notice he isnt magic boxing, storm works wonders.


----------



## gonX

If a Zerg player isn't magic boxing then he's doing something wrong







I'm gold on EU and I even see silver Zerg's magic boxing.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


If a Zerg player isn't magic boxing then he's doing something wrong







I'm gold on EU and I even see silver Zerg's magic boxing.


Everyone once in awhile you get lucky. I played a diamond AM player who forgot to the other day. Either they forget or don't see a Thor on the field yet. I usually send my first Thor to the mineral line so they dont know I have them until its too late; usually good for one or two volleys.

Lately, I have been just outright winning against Z with a hellion opener in plat. Usually make 6 hellions max but recently, that's all I need to end a game. Not very good practice lol. Need to practice snipe micro too.


----------



## Realityntatt

Nobody wants to sell a used starcraft 2 cd-key?


----------



## Reflux

Been watching competitive SC2 on youtube for a couple months and finally decided to buy it.

Really enjoying the singleplayer, hope to play multiplayer once I learn a bit more about how it's played. It's my first serious RTS since Red Alert 2.

Any tips? Probably gonna play my first 1v1 game pretty soon. I need to learn hotkeys for sure.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;15554381*
> They're similar to Thor's, so yeah they beat Muta's fairly hard - less now that magic boxing mutas has become popular, but they're still pretty good.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15554389*
> AoE damage, extra damage to biological, they're great against mutas.


Sorry, I don't think the sarcasm was noticed.

Cause Archons are garbage against Mutas.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15559926*
> Any tips? Probably gonna play my first 1v1 game pretty soon. I need to learn hotkeys for sure.


definitely hotkeys,

PROBE, PYLON, PROBE, PYLON or in other words never get supply blocked and always be making workers to be ahead in economy. Once you never miss making a worker then you can learn builds which cut workers at a point in time.

NEVER QUEUE up units, those minerals/gas could currently be being spent elsewhere, so if you see your minerals/gas piling up - more buildings!

I know that was me and BigFan's biggest mistake back when we were in silver, we'd be hovering over 1000 Minerals + Gas late game + queued up units.

don't be afraid to expand, I know I personally 1 based a lot in Season 1, but now with experience (a lotta losing







) I learnt how to be greedy and safe with SCOUTING, this can be in the form of scanning your opponent's base, to sacrificing an overlord, to running zergling up their ramp etc. to get information about what your opponent is up to.

and watch Day9's vids, they personally got me from newb to slightly-less-of-a-newb.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


definitely hotkeys,

probe, pylon, probe, pylon or in other words never get supply blocked and always be making workers to be ahead in economy. Once you never miss making a worker then you can learn builds which cut workers at a point in time.

NEVER queue up units, those minerals/gas could currently be being spent elsewhere, so if you see your minerals/gas piling up - more buildings!

I know that was me and BigFan's biggest mistake back when we were in silver, we'd be hovering over 1000 Minerals + Gas late game if not more.

and watch Day9's vids, they personally got me from newb to slightly-less-of-a-newb.


Those are all really good. To be honest, I would play random for a little bit to know your way around all the races. Getting a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of every unit and knowing the timings for them is really, really useful.


----------



## Dr216

best advice for a newbie starting now is dont get frustrated and dont give up, your gonna loose a whole lot just make sure you learn from it.

I found it best to set myself win conditions, I "win" if I dont miss a single lavea inject untill the 10 min mark (regardless of how badly i do everything else If i did that right i 
"won"). This helps you to focus on the weakenesses in your play without getting too worked up about all the stupid cheeses you lost to etc.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr216*


best advice for a newbie starting now is dont get frustrated and dont give up, your gonna loose a whole lot just make sure you learn from it.

I found it best to set myself win conditions, I "win" if I dont miss a single lavea inject untill the 10 min mark (regardless of how badly i do everything else If i did that right i 
"won"). This helps you to focus on the weakenesses in your play without getting too worked up about all the stupid cheeses you lost to etc.


Also watch replays on youtube, to learn builds and strategies

Yeah and everyone has bad "spells"

I used to get killed by terran every time, tank marine or marine rauder I got decimated. I watched Destiny learning protoss series and started 15 nexus vs terran and that helped alot. But just playing in general makes you faster (repetition) and you improve.


----------



## Reflux

Thanks guys I'll be reporting into this thread regularly hopefully. As I said I have been watching replays and commentaries on youtube for 2 or 3 months already so I do have a good idea of how people typically play.

I'm going to play a few AI games before I go up against a real person I think.


----------



## Creizai

Its crazy how hardcore I've gotten in SC2. I've mostly played FPSs like CS and DOD for the longest time. I do enjoy "thinking" in a different way, which is required to get good in SC2.

Finding good players who you love to watch makes a world of difference. 
With me it was MarineKing 
Here is the highlight video of the game that made me want to play starcraft II
http://youtu.be/Xec_WamfWG8


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah MKP def was above everyone else for marine control back then.


----------



## Mwarren

Anyone else bored with 1v1? I cant even play or get excited playing 1v1 anymore, its the same thing every game pretty much as 1v1 lacks diversity strategy wise and there's no team work involved. I've been having a blast with teams and customs though.


----------



## Fortunex

Just because you lack diversity in your strategies doesn't mean 1v1 does.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15565450*
> Anyone else bored with 1v1? I cant even play or get excited playing 1v1 anymore, its the same thing every game pretty much as 1v1 lacks diversity strategy wise and there's no team work involved. I've been having a blast with teams and customs though.


1v1 > Team games. Team games are complete garbage imo.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15568480*
> 1v1 > Team games.


I agree with this even though I too love team games. The majority of the time it's "rush or get rushed" unless you defend like a boss... (I think I recently won a 4v4 by using a 3 rax + cut scvs at 12 build defensively with kind-of marine splitting







because most my teammates were expanding or teching...







)

but i'd love to see how they're played on a professional level... even if the event fails horribly once at least then we'll know for sure.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash;15568480*
> 1v1 > Team games. Team games are complete garbage imo.


Yup, team games are a complete **** show. I have a friend who only plays team games and thinks he is a better player than me. When we play 1v1 against one another, his strategies are complete garbage and I usually go for the roflstomp.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;15566068*
> Just because you lack diversity in your strategies doesn't mean 1v1 does.


Actually 1v1 does lack diversity in strategy's. Right now in TvP only bio is viable, mech and sky terran are garbage and bio/mech is garbage. TvZ only bio/mech and mech are viable, and TvT can be played 3 different ways but that still isn't diverse enough.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15569818*
> Actually 1v1 does lack diversity in strategy's. Right now in TvP only bio is viable, mech and sky terran are garbage and bio/mech is garbage. TvZ only bio/mech and mech are viable, and TvT can be played 3 different ways but that still isn't diverse enough.


well team battles suck when you are playing with idiots who don't communicate and 1v1 does get dull after awhile.

i usually just play a couple 1v1 then do some team battles with 3 of my buddies(freaking fun as hell) and then go do some customs if we lose more than 2

dunno, SC is getting a bit boring to me in general though...i like to game hop a lot so maybe that's why....who knows :shrug:


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm still playing random but I find myself going terran if I want to win. Terran Bio with upgrades and madavc's are damn good


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage;15569939*
> I'm still playing random but I find myself going terran if I want to win. Terran Bio with upgrades and madavc's are damn good


personally i've nevered like playing terran much...i mean i do OK with them but i prefer Zerg and Toss .... toss is my best


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15569818*
> Actually 1v1 does lack diversity in strategy's. Right now in TvP only bio is viable, mech and sky terran are garbage and bio/mech is garbage. TvZ only bio/mech and mech are viable, and TvT can be played 3 different ways but that still isn't diverse enough.


Strategy is more than just unit comps.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Strategy is more than just unit comps.










What?! That's crazy talk...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Reflux*


Been watching competitive SC2 on youtube for a couple months and finally decided to buy it.

Really enjoying the singleplayer, hope to play multiplayer once I learn a bit more about how it's played. It's my first serious RTS since Red Alert 2.

Any tips? Probably gonna play my first 1v1 game pretty soon. I need to learn hotkeys for sure.


Sure. I wouldn't bother with hotkeys though. They are overrated. It's all about fast mouse movements, especially early game, when you have to keep selecting all your workers so they mine faster. If you want to get really good just follow these few simple rules and you'll improve in no time.

* Save money.
This is probably the most important thing. Starcraft is a strategy game and if you save money it means you're planning ahead. You can often see bad players being broke all game even if they expanded. Try to accumulate as much minerals and gas as possible so you can capitalise on it later. On the score screen there is a tab called "Average unspent resources". If you scored higher than your opponent it means you played better, even if you lost!

* Don't make too many workers.
Workers take supply and they can't fight. The more workers you have the less army units you can get. Remember that each worker can be a marine, a zergling or even a high templar if you add some gas, which is almost unlimited anyway.

* Don't be aggressive.
A common mistake of newer players is that they're trying to force the issue and keep attacking their opponent throughout the game. Don't. Whenever you're trying to attack you're not focusing on your base and building static defences. Your base is the most important thing in the game. You should make it like a fortress, so when the enemy comes you can crush them.

* Don't let the enemy force your army composition.
This is a bit tricky, but it's what differentiates good players from great players. If your enemy is making air units, don't make any anti air. It's exactly what they want. They are playing mind games. If a zerg player is massing mutas it doesn't mean he wants to attack with air, he want to force you to make stalkers so he can crush you with ultralisks. Make 40 cannons and laugh in their face.

* If you lose - blame imbalance.
If you follow the rules above it means you're playing in an optimal way. You should never believe there are holes in your play. Ever! Good players know that their loses are solely due to imbalance. This also applies to mirror matchups because your enemy can make imbalanced units, use map imbalance or just get lucky. In any case if you lose the game, you should always let your anemy know that you are in fact a superior player. Sentences like: "******* zerg noob", "Nice rush ******" or "LOL ******, rofl" demonstrate your sound understanding of the game and make the enemy feel bad about their undeserved win.

For reference I'm rank 2 in my 4v4 gold division, so I know what I'm saying.


----------



## BulletsLikeBlades

Ordered this game last night, Pretty excited to get it going here soon when it arrives.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Strategy is more than just unit comps.










Well the only unit comps that are viable 1v1 are boring. Trying playing as much 1v1 as I have and you WILL get bored.......at a master level SC2 starts to get boring IMO because you cant away with being creative and the game turns into a 1v1 sport.

I sort of wish that I was playing in Gold or Plat to be honest, you can be really creative and win in those leagues. The reason why I find teams so much fun is the huge diversity in strategy's and unit comps.

I've gone mass reapers before in teams and its as funny as hell, as soon as a player left his base id hop in with 60 reapers with 2 medivacs to heal and id clear their base out in only a few seconds. In 1v1 you could never do stuff like that haha.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


Sure. I wouldn't bother with hotkeys though. They are overrated. It's all about fast mouse movements, especially early game, when you have to keep selecting all your workers so they mine faster. If you want to get really good just follow these few simple rules and you'll improve in no time.

* Save money.
This is probably the most important thing. Starcraft is a strategy game and if you save money it means you're planning ahead. You can often see bad players being broke all game even if they expanded. Try to accumulate as much minerals and gas as possible so you can capitalise on it later. On the score screen there is a tab called "Average unspent resources". If you scored higher than your opponent it means you played better, even if you lost!

* Don't make too many workers.
Workers take supply and they can't fight. The more workers you have the less army units you can get. Remember that each worker can be a marine, a zergling or even a high templar if you add some gas, which is almost unlimited anyway.

* Don't be aggressive.
A common mistake of newer players is that they're trying to force the issue and keep attacking their opponent throughout the game. Don't. Whenever you're trying to attack you're not focusing on your base and building static defences. Your base is the most important thing in the game. You should make it like a fortress, so when the enemy comes you can crush them.

* Don't let the enemy force your army composition.
This is a bit tricky, but it's what differentiates good players from great players. If your enemy is making air units, don't make any anti air. It's exactly what they want. They are playing mind games. If a zerg player is massing mutas it doesn't mean he wants to attack with air, he want to force you to make stalkers so he can crush you with ultralisks. Make 40 cannons and laugh in their face.

* If you lose - blame imbalance.
If you follow the rules above it means you're playing in an optimal way. You should never believe there are holes in your play. Ever! Good players know that their loses are solely due to imbalance. This also applies to mirror matchups because your enemy can make imbalanced units, use map imbalance or just get lucky. In any case if you lose the game, you should always let your anemy know that you are in fact a superior player. Sentences like: "******* zerg noob", "Nice rush ******" or "LOL ******, rofl" demonstrate your sound understanding of the game and make the enemy feel bad about their undeserved win.

For reference I'm rank 2 in my 4v4 gold division, so I know what I'm saying.











For a second I thought you were being serious :I

Look at the OP for some great DAY [9] tutorials and other guides


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Well the only unit comps that are viable 1v1 are boring. Trying playing as much 1v1 as I have and you WILL get bored.......at a master level SC2 starts to get boring IMO because you cant away with being creative and the game turns into a 1v1 sport.

I sort of wish that I was playing in Gold or Plat to be honest, you can be really creative and win in those leagues. The reason why I find teams so much fun is the huge diversity in strategy's and unit comps.

I've gone mass reapers before in teams and its as funny as hell, as soon as a player left his base id hop in with 60 reapers with 2 medivacs to heal and id clear their base out in only a few seconds. In 1v1 you could never do stuff like that haha.


Just because you can't make weird things viable doesn't mean they aren't. Huk, Spanishiwa, White-Ra, all find new things to do.

If you wanna mess around/not play seriously and do stuff like mass reapers, then just play customs or team games, that's what they're there for.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Just because you can't make weird things viable doesn't mean they aren't. Huk, Spanishiwa, White-Ra, all find new things to do.

If you wanna mess around/not play seriously and do stuff like mass reapers, then just play customs or team games, that's what they're there for.


I already said that I do play customs and teams......

Huk, Spanishwa, and White Ra do not find weird things to do, they all play standard.... What league are you in?


----------



## Fortunex

If you play them then why complain about 1v1?

Huk's famous mothership rush, his hallucinated void rays vs Idra, Spanishiwa's ice fisher build, ling/bling drop heavy style, ling/hydra builds, White-Ra's "special tactics"/drops everywhere as opposed to the standard deathball.

I'm plat/diamond.


----------



## yks




----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz;15572999*
> Sure. I wouldn't bother with hotkeys though. They are overrated. It's all about fast mouse movements, especially early game, when you have to keep selecting all your workers so they mine faster. If you want to get really good just follow these few simple rules and you'll improve in no time.
> 
> * Save money.
> This is probably the most important thing. Starcraft is a strategy game and if you save money it means you're planning ahead. You can often see bad players being broke all game even if they expanded. Try to accumulate as much minerals and gas as possible so you can capitalise on it later. On the score screen there is a tab called "Average unspent resources". If you scored higher than your opponent it means you played better, even if you lost!
> 
> * Don't make too many workers.
> Workers take supply and they can't fight. The more workers you have the less army units you can get. Remember that each worker can be a marine, a zergling or even a high templar if you add some gas, which is almost unlimited anyway.
> 
> * Don't be aggressive.
> A common mistake of newer players is that they're trying to force the issue and keep attacking their opponent throughout the game. Don't. Whenever you're trying to attack you're not focusing on your base and building static defences. Your base is the most important thing in the game. You should make it like a fortress, so when the enemy comes you can crush them.
> 
> * Don't let the enemy force your army composition.
> This is a bit tricky, but it's what differentiates good players from great players. If your enemy is making air units, don't make any anti air. It's exactly what they want. They are playing mind games. If a zerg player is massing mutas it doesn't mean he wants to attack with air, he want to force you to make stalkers so he can crush you with ultralisks. Make 40 cannons and laugh in their face.
> 
> * If you lose - blame imbalance.
> If you follow the rules above it means you're playing in an optimal way. You should never believe there are holes in your play. Ever! Good players know that their loses are solely due to imbalance. This also applies to mirror matchups because your enemy can make imbalanced units, use map imbalance or just get lucky. In any case if you lose the game, you should always let your anemy know that you are in fact a superior player. Sentences like: "******* zerg noob", "Nice rush ******" or "LOL ******, rofl" demonstrate your sound understanding of the game and make the enemy feel bad about their undeserved win.
> 
> For reference I'm rank 2 in my 4v4 gold division, so I know what I'm saying.


Did you steal this from somewhere? cos its made of so much win it reads to me like hotbid wrote it









just in case the poor guy your giving advice to doesnt realise this is a joke...with regards to everything above do the opposite


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren;15573380*
> Well the only unit comps that are viable 1v1 are boring. Trying playing as much 1v1 as I have and you WILL get bored.......at a master level SC2 starts to get boring IMO because you cant away with being creative and the game turns into a 1v1 sport.
> 
> I sort of wish that I was playing in Gold or Plat to be honest, you can be really creative and win in those leagues. The reason why I find teams so much fun is the huge diversity in strategy's and unit comps.
> 
> I've gone mass reapers before in teams and its as funny as hell, as soon as a player left his base id hop in with 60 reapers with 2 medivacs to heal and id clear their base out in only a few seconds. In 1v1 you could never do stuff like that haha.


Boring is relative. You can be creative in 1v1 a ton you cant just do what you want vs competent opponents though like you seem to think is strategy.

In gold and plat you dont need to be creative because you can do ANYTHING and win. Its not creativity its how horrible your opponents are that lets you win. Same for team games which are rush fests. If good people played team games and figured out which rushes are best it would be just as boring as 1v1 to you. Team games take zero skill. Good players know this and thats why teams arent at the level of 1v1 because anyone with an ounce of skill realizes how skill-less and stupid they are except for when you are on tilt or trolling.

Your reaper strat is ******ed and only works because your opponents are even worse than you are. I could fight children and beat them all day by spinning in circles with my fists clenched but that would be boring and skill-less. And if you do enjoy doing that often then you have a serious ego problem.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Boring is relative. You can be creative in 1v1 a ton you cant just do what you want vs competent opponents though like you seem to think is strategy.

In gold and plat you dont need to be creative because you can do ANYTHING and win. Its not creativity its how horrible your opponents are that lets you win. Same for team games which are rush fests. If good people played team games and figured out which rushes are best it would be just as boring as 1v1 to you. Team games take zero skill. Good players know this and thats why teams arent at the level of 1v1 because anyone with an ounce of skill realizes how skill-less and stupid they are except for when you are on tilt or trolling.

Your reaper strat is ******ed and only works because your opponents are even worse than you are. I could fight children and beat them all day by spinning in circles with my fists clenched but that would be boring and skill-less. And if you do enjoy doing that often then you have a serious ego problem.


Whats up with all of the people in here with attitude problems haha? Whats wrong with doing whatever you want in teams and having fun? I hope that you realize that playing games is meant to be fun not everyone has a huge ego and calls different strategy's ******ed because they think that SC is a hardcore sport and not a video game.


----------



## Realityntatt

My gf bought me starcraft 2





















yayy!!!!! I am looking for active people!!!! that wants to play!! I am excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my name in game is VertexBETA pm me!!!!


----------



## Alex132

You need the in-game name as well as the 3 digit code to add a friend


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


You need the in-game name as well as the 3 digit code to add a friend


but that is my ingame name


----------



## Alex132

Yes, it's not unique


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realityntatt*


my name in game is VertexBETA pm me!!!!


multiple people can have the same username, that's why you need your character code which can be found in the box that appears when you click on "add friend".


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


multiple people can have the same username, that's why you need your character code which can be found in the box that appears when you click on "add friend".


ohhh I see so I am VertexBETA "347"


----------



## Alex132

Leagues?


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Leagues?


I just finished playing 3 games in the practice league? hahahah I am such a noooob


----------



## Alex132

Practice league isn't actually that good for you, normal speed and novice maps gets you used to weird things.


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


Practice league isn't actually that good for you, normal speed and novice maps gets you used to weird things.


add me so we can play!!!! teach emeeeeee


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Whats up with all of the people in here with attitude problems haha? Whats wrong with doing whatever you want in teams and having fun? I hope that you realize that playing games is meant to be fun not everyone has a huge ego and calls different strategy's ******ed because they think that SC is a hardcore sport and not a video game.


I could put a circle in a circle hole for fun for hours but I would get bored after about 5 seconds. Maybe its ADD. I don't know.

Getting better is fun. Improving is fun. Wasting time with easy mode no skill team games versus horrible opponents is boring. Your the one asserting dominance over lower skill players by humiliating them with ******ed strats and getting an ego boost.

SCBW and SC2 are hardcore sports. There are team houses and tournaments where people practice 12hrs a day and get paid salary. Maybe you should think before you speak.

You dont know anything about strategy or skill. You don't realize how many playstyles there are and how each pro is unique and brings their owns traits to the game. Goody uses mech vs everyone btw. And each map brings different advantage and disadvantages. Just because you want to be able to mass reaper each game doesnt mean sc2 isnt diverse, it means you are an idiot. There is so much diversity in gameplay right now and each player plays fairly uniquely.

Ret- Macro player who takes risk to get more drones and rarely cheeses
Idra- Macro player who plays safe and gets more drones and rarely cheeses. Favors infestors to play safe vs P and mutas in Z/T.
MC - Risky player overall but still good. Lots of tricks but usually shorter games.
July Zerg- Extremely Aggressive player who doenst spread creep and goes into kill mode and doesnt stop sending army until someone is dead.
TLO - plays odd strats that are random, often with nukes.
Goody - Plays mech in every MU, long macro games obv. 
MKP - Used the potential of the marine to destroy zergs but rounded his play
BitbyBit - Cheesy 1 base
Genuis - wierd void ray play almost all the time
Tyler - Nony build with pheonix and popularized double forge chargelot/HT
Adelscott - plays a heavy gateway zealot/stalker/upgrade style
Select - Extremely aggressive harrassing player that has extreme multitasking and is always dropping
BratOK - loves ghost play and openings
Dimaga - BANELINGS BANELINGS BANELINGS
White Ra - Speshul Tactiks. Lots of warp prism play heavy unit harass and other odd play that wins games and works
Naniwa - Used to be 1base but now plays more macro and kills you with a spoon. Spoontoss.

This is off the top of my head and I dont watch enough sc2. Im sure someone who keeps up with everything could correct and add many other players and their uniqueness.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realityntatt*


add me so we can play!!!! teach emeeeeee


First, choose a race.

I would recommend Protoss or Terran as they're the easiest to get started with.

Also play vs AI to get used to the things about your race.


----------



## Odyn

Hmm...

Does anyone want to partner up and start hardcore 1s or 2s? I'm looking to improve my game... I'm not in any of the grandmaster leagues but I'm decent, and can play a good P; americas region.

Cyrus is my login.... pls PM me if interested.


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alex132*


First, choose a race.

I would recommend Protoss or Terran as they're the easiest to get started with.

Also play vs AI to get used to the things about your race.


I am terran, I played LOTS of warcraft III as a human, so I am terran now!!!!

I now the basics!! now I need to start watching replays and such.. but alone is boringggggggggggggggggggggggggggg


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Odyn*


Hmm...

Does anyone want to partner up and start hardcore 1s or 2s? I'm looking to improve my game... I'm not in any of the grandmaster leagues but I'm decent, and can play a good P; americas region.

Cyrus is my login.... pls PM me if interested.


League?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Realityntatt*


I am terran, I played LOTS of warcraft III as a human, so I am terran now!!!!

I now the basics!! now I need to start watching replays and such.. but alone is boringggggggggggggggggggggggggggg


Watch some GSL, its really good.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


I could put a circle in a circle hole for fun for hours but I would get bored after about 5 seconds. Maybe its ADD. I don't know.

Getting better is fun. Improving is fun. Wasting time with easy mode no skill team games versus horrible opponents is boring. Your the one asserting dominance over lower skill players by humiliating them with ******ed strats and getting an ego boost.

SCBW and SC2 are hardcore sports. There are team houses and tournaments where people practice 12hrs a day and get paid salary. Maybe you should think before you speak.

You dont know anything about strategy or skill. You don't realize how many playstyles there are and how each pro is unique and brings their owns traits to the game. Goody uses mech vs everyone btw. And each map brings different advantage and disadvantages. Just because you want to be able to mass reaper each game doesnt mean sc2 isnt diverse, it means you are an idiot. There is so much diversity in gameplay right now and each player plays fairly uniquely.

Ret- Macro player who takes risk to get more drones and rarely cheeses
Idra- Macro player who plays safe and gets more drones and rarely cheeses. Favors infestors to play safe vs P and mutas in Z/T.
MC - Risky player overall but still good. Lots of tricks but usually shorter games.
July Zerg- Extremely Aggressive player who doenst spread creep and goes into kill mode and doesnt stop sending army until someone is dead.
TLO - plays odd strats that are random, often with nukes.
Goody - Plays mech in every MU, long macro games obv. 
MKP - Used the potential of the marine to destroy zergs but rounded his play
BitbyBit - Cheesy 1 base
Genuis - wierd void ray play almost all the time
Tyler - Nony build with pheonix and popularized double forge chargelot/HT
Adelscott - plays a heavy gateway zealot/stalker/upgrade style
Select - Extremely aggressive harrassing player that has extreme multitasking and is always dropping
BratOK - loves ghost play and openings
Dimaga - BANELINGS BANELINGS BANELINGS
White Ra - Speshul Tactiks. Lots of warp prism play heavy unit harass and other odd play that wins games and works
Naniwa - Used to be 1base but now plays more macro and kills you with a spoon. Spoontoss.

This is off the top of my head and I dont watch enough sc2. Im sure someone who keeps up with everything could correct and add many other players and their uniqueness.


Stop trying to make yourself look like you're some Godly player, you're not even in the same league as me 1v1. In team games the strats that I do are viable, there are tons of ways to play team games such as mineral feeding zergs, mass reaper, ghost nuke harass/contains, heavy tech builds, and tons of other things. Just because you think that team games dont require strategy doesnt mean that they dont. In actuality team games require strategy too and I prefer them over 1v1. By the way those people that spend 12 hours a day playing video games are wasting their life and potential to do more in life. Do you honestly think that the're going to still be playing games at a competitive level at age 40? From what I've heard a lot of them get paud just to get by.

Adding to your player play style list I can add a lot more.

Qxc - Plays an aggressive style and utilizes reapers and nukes late game heavily in TvP. Is re known for his drop ship play.

Minigun - Plays macro style Toss, doesnt really on gimmicks or weird play. Plays straight up and relies primarly on macro, very predictable play style.

Major - Plays a very heavy macro style, is renowned for his incredible multi tasking skills, can manage multiple army's with high efficiency and make come backs from games that most players would have surely of lost.

Spades - Plays a heavy macro style, very predictable but has very good unit control and macro.

Bomber - Very aggressive Terran, can multi task and macro hard and will punish a player even for the smallest of mistakes due to being so aggressive.

MMA - Renown for his drop ship and hellion play. Has one of the best TvZ's in the world due to his heavy drop ship multi tasking ability and excellent game sense.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mwarren*


Qxc - Plays an aggressive style and utilizes reapers and nukes late game heavily in TvP. Is re known for his drop ship play.

Minigun - Plays macro style Toss, doesnt really on gimmicks or weird play. Plays straight up and relies primarly on macro, very predictable play style.

Major - Plays a very heavy macro style, is renowned for his incredible multi tasking skills, can manage multiple army's with high efficiency and make come backs from games that most players would have surely of lost.

Spades - Plays a heavy macro style, very predictable but has very good unit control and macro.

Bomber - Very aggressive Terran, can multi task and macro hard and will punish a player even for the smallest of mistakes due to being so aggressive.

MMA - Renown for his drop ship and hellion play. Has one of the best TvZ's in the world due to his heavy drop ship multi tasking ability and excellent game sense.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*


Ret- Macro player who takes risk to get more drones and rarely cheeses

Idra- Macro player who plays safe and gets more drones and rarely cheeses. 
Favors infestors to play safe vs P and mutas in Z/T.

MC - Risky player overall but still good. Lots of tricks but usually shorter games.

July Zerg- Extremely Aggressive player who doenst spread creep and goes into kill mode and doesnt stop sending army until someone is dead.

TLO - plays odd strats that are random, often with nukes.
Goody - Plays mech in every MU, long macro games obv.

MKP - Used the potential of the marine to destroy zergs but rounded his play

BitbyBit - Cheesy 1 base

Genuis - wierd void ray play almost all the time

Tyler - Nony build with pheonix and popularized double forge chargelot/HT

Adelscott - plays a heavy gateway zealot/stalker/upgrade style

Select - Extremely aggressive harrassing player that has extreme 
multitasking and is always dropping

BratOK - loves ghost play and openings

Dimaga - BANELINGS BANELINGS BANELINGS

White Ra - Speshul Tactiks. Lots of warp prism play heavy unit harass and other odd play that wins games and works

Naniwa - Used to be 1base but now plays more macro and kills you with a spoon. Spoontoss.


No one includes NesTea









NesTea - Macrobased with preference to roaches and mutas. Good ZvZ and decision making on droning and when to attack / backoff.

MarineKing - Duh loves M/M/M. Microbased, known for baneling/marine micro and often rushes / early pushes.

BoxeR - Most well known SC player, very good micro and tactics. Known for making amazing comebacks and very unique strategies.

Clide - Good micro, good macro, good decision making but never gets far. (Tastosis curse?)

Maka - Known for bad proxy rax placement in natural that is almost always scouted. Microbased.

Kyrix - Making banelings do anything and everything, good decision making.

Fruitdealer - Good macroplayer as well as nice micro. Good decision making.

HopeTorture (Into the Rainbow / Rainbow) - Loves harassment and decent micro, can get outmacro'd.

Loner - Used to only rush, now more macrobased. One of China's best players


----------



## HometownHero

Clide absolutely has tastosis curse.


----------



## HarrisLam

hey guys let me remind you if you wanna play with others you can always join Overclock.net channel in the game and see if anyones there


----------



## Realityntatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam;15587919*
> hey guys let me remind you if you wanna play with others you can always join Overclock.net channel in the game and see if anyones there


that is what I am looking for!!!! to play with somebody!!! and maybe find a good 2vs2 partner!! I used to love that in warcraft 3.


----------



## Tduckro

Diamond S1, don't play anymore but could get back into it if I had some practice partners... Cmon OCN!


----------



## Alex132

Yeah the overclock.net channel is always empty


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132;15605363*
> Yeah the overclock.net channel is always empty


Sometimes there is around 4 or 5 people on, but no one says anything... If someone came into the channel and told me I had to play team games, I would listen.


----------



## Alex132

I'm always in


----------



## pelirrojo

Actually, imo, team games are significantly more complex than 1v1... And maybe that's why they aren't as popular. There are so many variables and intricacies involved in each opening build in each matchup for 1v1, and in a 2v2 they go up exponentially.

Maybe this is why every masters+ 2v2 I've seen involved massive early pressure/cheese from both sides - if you pressure, you keep the other team from doing one of a billion different things that would be nearly impossible to perfectly prepare for.


----------



## Fortunex

I think every 2v2 is early rush/cheese because it's incredibly easy to overpower someone 2v1 and once you've taken out one person, the game is pretty much won. It's why I don't play 2v2's much, and when I do, I play Terran (best early game on both offense and defense).


----------



## CravinR1

a sentrie can ff the ramp in 2v2 and let you 2v1 one guy's army (if they don't hae the army combined in the middle


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pelirrojo*


Actually, imo, team games are significantly more complex than 1v1... And maybe that's why they aren't as popular. There are so many variables and intricacies involved in each opening build in each matchup for 1v1, and in a 2v2 they go up exponentially.

Maybe this is why every masters+ 2v2 I've seen involved massive early pressure/cheese from both sides - if you pressure, you keep the other team from doing one of a billion different things that would be nearly impossible to perfectly prepare for.


I believe that team games are more popular than 1v1s, because they are less competitive. They are not complex though as the game is not balanced around team games. High level 2v2'ers cheese in these games not to avoid complexity, which would rather allow them to get additional edge over weaker opponents, but because these kinds of strategies are the most effective. The fact that there are gold 1v1 players in master 2v2+ leagues only proves the point.


----------



## Sainesk

worst... losing streak... ever... in team games today.

I'm really confused though, almost all my teammates seem to be doing a fast 3 base with little to no units till then... is this the new day9 or did some pro do something awesome like this recently? or maybe I just kept getting matched with the same peeps...


----------



## pelirrojo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


I believe that team games are more popular than 1v1s, because they are less competitive. They are not complex though as the game is not balanced around team games. High level 2v2'ers cheese in these games not to avoid complexity, which would rather allow them to get additional edge over weaker opponents, but because these kinds of strategies are the most effective. The fact that there are gold 1v1 players in master 2v2+ leagues only proves the point.


I meant team games aren't as popular in the serious/competitive community. There aren't really leagues or tournaments based around them. I wouldn't be surprised if more people played team games than 1v1 ladder though.

Cheese in general is just really really strong. One guy made it to GM just 6pooling every game in every matchup. It's a lot easier to play 1 build over and over and over and get really good at it than it is to defend against it.

But you could be right, I dunno. I wouldn't be surprised if, due to the ease with which you could quickly kill off 1 player in a 2v1 situation, both teams are basically forced to get a lot of units asap or just die a lot of the time.


----------



## Reflux

Played my first 1v1 in practice league, finally! TvZ, I picked terran. I plan on playing Protoss mainly but obviously have to learn it more, gonna stick to Terran for now because it's what I know from SP.

Totally murdered the poor guy, he had no idea what he was doing, kinda feel bad. Anyway, I used marine/marauder with a few tanks with siege mode to hold the rear.

Rendering a video now, will upload to youtube and you guys can critique. I didn't use any hotkeys (except to make units, I have some memorized from SP). They just don't feel right, I'll be trying to incorporate them as much as I can in future.

Also, moar tips for the maximum SC noob would be appreciated, otherwise I'll probably keep playing like this.

My SC2 username is Reflux, throw me a friend invite I'm feeling a bit cold and lonely.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15615439*
> Played my first 1v1 in practice league, finally! TvZ, I picked terran. I plan on playing Protoss mainly but obviously have to learn it more, gonna stick to Terran for now because it's what I know from SP.
> 
> Totally murdered the poor guy, he had no idea what he was doing, kinda feel bad. Anyway, I used marine/marauder with a few tanks with siege mode to hold the rear.
> 
> Rendering a video now, will upload to youtube and you guys can critique. I didn't use any hotkeys (except to make units, I have some memorized from SP). They just don't feel right, I'll be trying to incorporate them as much as I can in future.
> 
> Also, moar tips for the maximum SC noob would be appreciated, otherwise I'll probably keep playing like this.
> 
> My SC2 username is Reflux, throw me a friend invite I'm feeling a bit cold and lonely.


What's your character ID?


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonx;15615568*
> what's your character id?


347


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15615439*
> Played my first 1v1 in practice league, finally! TvZ, I picked terran. I plan on playing Protoss mainly but obviously have to learn it more, gonna stick to Terran for now because it's what I know from SP.
> 
> Totally murdered the poor guy, he had no idea what he was doing, kinda feel bad. Anyway, I used marine/marauder with a few tanks with siege mode to hold the rear.
> 
> Rendering a video now, will upload to youtube and you guys can critique. I didn't use any hotkeys (except to make units, I have some memorized from SP). They just don't feel right, I'll be trying to incorporate them as much as I can in future.
> 
> Also, moar tips for the maximum SC noob would be appreciated, otherwise I'll probably keep playing like this.
> 
> My SC2 username is Reflux, throw me a friend invite I'm feeling a bit cold and lonely.


Remember to auto-join the "overclock.net" channel so we can see who's on.

Edit: Didnt see the tip question. I think something that helped me a lot was to expand when I push or when I have a contain set up.


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15615898*
> Remember to auto-join the "overclock.net" channel so we can see who's on.
> 
> Edit: Didnt see the tip question. I think something that helped me a lot was to expand when I push or when I have a contain set up.


Thanks. And yes, I just lost to a zerg who had 4 bases and a rich mineral base when I was running on 2 regular bases, I had better unit composition but he was churning out waves of roaches about 30 at a time and baneling busted my base defense to poo.

Thanks though. Someone said I was going to 'lose, ALOT', I've lost twice in 8 games. The other loss was to a TvT, the guy just marine rushed me. Was pretty sad.

So far, feeling good, just need to up the ante. That guy was not a beginner at all, I could tell just by how good his macro was, probably a second account.

He used burrow, and I couldn't really counter it. He saw my starport and knew I wouldn't pick up any detectors, I did put a raven out at one point but they're very expensive. I made a late game transition into 2 thors and pure marine with my leftover tanks but I couldn't counter it at all, he rushed into my base and burrowed under, killed all my SCV's and I couldn't recover so I gg'd.

Any help on defending against cheesy play like that? What's the best unit to detect burrowed units? What's the best way to defend against mass units (what is the roaches hard counter? (my marine blob couldn't take them on even with combat shields))?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15616385*
> Thanks. And yes, I just lost to a zerg who had 4 bases and a rich mineral base when I was running on 2 regular bases, I had better unit composition but he was churning out waves of roaches about 30 at a time and baneling busted my base defense to poo.
> 
> Thanks though. Someone said I was going to 'lose, ALOT', I've lost twice in 8 games. The other loss was to a TvT, the guy just marine rushed me. Was pretty sad.
> 
> So far, feeling good, just need to up the ante. That guy was not a beginner at all, I could tell just by how good his macro was, probably a second account.
> 
> He used burrow, and I couldn't really counter it. He saw my starport and knew I wouldn't pick up any detectors, I did put a raven out at one point but they're very expensive. I made a late game transition into 2 thors and pure marine with my leftover tanks but I couldn't counter it at all, he rushed into my base and burrowed under, killed all my SCV's and I couldn't recover so I gg'd.
> 
> Any help on defending against cheesy play like that? What's the best unit to detect burrowed units? What's the best way to defend against mass units (what is the roaches hard counter? (my marine blob couldn't take them on even with combat shields))?


I probably wouldn't have switched to rine-thor. Roaches are hard countered by siege and marauders do well against them too. Between burrowed roaches, infestors, and mutas; I always put missile turrets at all of my bases. If they arent using a muta composition, just a missile turret at each expo will help against burrowed units. I usually stay away from ravens in tvz because they can get sniped so easily by mutas.

Best way to stop cheesy play is to keep your intel constantly updated. Intel means more to you the more you play because you will be able to detect what kind of style they are going to use based off what you see. Its best to get into a habit of constantly scouting now even if you dont know what to do with the intel just yet.


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;15616716*
> I probably wouldn't have switched to rine-thor. Roaches are hard countered by siege and marauders do well against them too. Between burrowed roaches, infestors, and mutas; I always put missile turrets at all of my bases. If they arent using a muta composition, just a missile turret at each expo will help against burrowed units. I usually stay away from ravens in tvz because they can get sniped so easily by mutas.
> 
> Best way to stop cheesy play is to keep your intel constantly updated. Intel means more to you the more you play because you will be able to detect what kind of style they are going to use based off what you see. Its best to get into a habit of constantly scouting now even if you dont know what to do with the intel just yet.


Thanks that helps.

I have been scanning alot, I don't bother with mules too much, maybe 1 or 2 here or there but I scan for my scouting info, don't think this is a bad thing. I've played 2 games where I do a fast Reaper or two for scouting to take out some drones.

Here's my first game, I've been playing like this (pretty much) most of the time. Now I'm incorporating Medivacs into my marine/marauder though. Trying to use hotkeys on my buildings but not really doing so well with that. Always find myself resorting to mouse.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caTtizqNNYo[/ame]

Crit away! Also, 1080p so fullscreen is good.


----------



## CravinR1

I would recommend skipping the practice league entirely. It gives you a false sense of "time" and you don't experience the pressure from a real game.

Also as many of the casters recommend, keep making workers at all times and try to expo around 8 min and 12 min (make sure you're making units to protect your main/expos)

You should've made a depot at 10 supply, you should never have 300 mins that early in the game. If you made the depot on 10 supply it would finish at 11 supply and you could've kept making scvs.

Also as soon as the depot was finished you had more than enough for a barracks

Also at 7:48 you had very few scvs and a very small army. At 8 min you had 5 or 6 marines, at 7 minutes with a 4 gate I'd hit with that many stalkers, which eat rines (and i'm only gold)

10 depot
11 barracks
12 refinery
15 orbital (its very important cause those mules will pull you ahead)

Also vs zerg on real maps (not those practice ones with the rocks protecting you) you need to build your buildings at the ramp to prevent ling run ins

You were floating 1400 mins, when you have more mins then you can spend make more production (barracks) or expo if you need more gas

You had barracks not making anything and 1800 mins, always produce something, if not enough gas grab some rines.

So yeah even in bronze league you're going to take some beatings, and you didn't have your first reaper til 12 min and thats when you did your first scouting.

At the end of your game was 16 min, look at the army size difference at that time from these games (plus I was on 2-3 bases with 2-2 upgrades):
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nWZkX8U-ko[/ame]


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15617799*
> I would recommend skipping the practice league entirely. It gives you a false sense of "time" and you don't experience the pressure from a real game.
> 
> Also as many of the casters recommend, keep making workers at all times and try to expo around 8 min and 12 min (make sure you're making units to protect your main/expos)
> 
> You should've made a depot at 10 supply, you should never have 300 mins that early in the game. If you made the depot on 10 supply it would finish at 11 supply and you could've kept making scvs.
> 
> Also as soon as the depot was finished you had more than enough for a barracks
> 
> Also at 7:48 you had very few scvs and a very small army. At 8 min you had 5 or 6 marines, at 7 minutes with a 4 gate I'd hit with that many stalkers, which eat rines (and i'm only gold)
> 
> 10 depot
> 11 barracks
> 12 refinery
> 15 orbital (its very important cause those mules will pull you ahead)
> 
> Also vs zerg on real maps (not those practice ones with the rocks protecting you) you need to build your buildings at the ramp to prevent ling run ins
> 
> You were floating 1400 mins, when you have more mins then you can spend make more production (barracks) or expo if you need more gas
> 
> You had barracks not making anything and 1800 mins, always produce something, if not enough gas grab some rines.
> 
> So yeah even in bronze league you're going to take some beatings, and you didn't have your first reaper til 12 min and thats when you did your first scouting.
> 
> At the end of your game was 16 min, look at the army size difference at that time from these games (plus I was on 2-3 bases with 2-2 upgrades):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nWZkX8U-ko


Thanks, It's alot to keep in mind. I'm struggling to incorporate everything here, I feel limited. It's probably just hotkeys that I need to get used to more.

And yeah, I know the practice league is not the same as the real thing, I wouldn't call it a bad idea to try and understand the game a bit before diving straight in.


----------



## QuadDamage

When I play terran I do well with a bio ball as long as you don't get stormed to heavy and do sutter step, the key is the stim the units in range and have at least 8 rax to reinforce


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15618283*
> Thanks, It's alot to keep in mind. I'm struggling to incorporate everything here, I feel limited. It's probably just hotkeys that I need to get used to more.
> 
> And yeah, I know the practice league is not the same as the real thing, I wouldn't call it a bad idea to try and understand the game a bit before diving straight in.


I play alot of games so I have alot of practice. The practice league will not help you get used to terran any more then the single player did.

I would recommend skipping practice league, and if you want to practice do 1v1 AI. Start off with Very Easy and work your way up. I would think Medium AI is a decent Bronze player, Hard should be around silver, Very Hard is a Gold player IMHO, Insane is a cheating bastige lol

Hot keys are very important, I need to learn to use camera hot keys also

I always use the following configuration (i'm sure its not the best and there are alot easier/smarter setups)

5 Nexus/Command Center/Hatchery
3 Gateway/Barracks
4 Robotics/Facotry
6 Starport

1- main army
2- special units (HTs etc...)
0- Obs over their army (I try to keep an observer over their army and in front of mine)


----------



## gonX

Zerg has it easy when it comes to keybindings. Personally I have it like this:

Early game:
1 scouting drone/zerglings
2 overlord
3 overlord
4 all hatcheries
5-0 queens assigned to a hatch to spawn larva

Later:
1 lings/roaches depending on comp
2 banelings or long range (muta/hydra)
3 long range if I don't have lings and overseer if they have invis.
rest same


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15618283*
> Thanks, It's alot to keep in mind. I'm struggling to incorporate everything here, I feel limited. It's probably just hotkeys that I need to get used to more.
> 
> And yeah, I know the practice league is not the same as the real thing, I wouldn't call it a bad idea to try and understand the game a bit before diving straight in.


As Terran, I use:

1- CC's
2- all productions facilities and I use Tab to cycle through rax, fact, and sp
3- main army
4- special units/drops
5- special units/drops


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Reflux*


Thanks that helps.

I have been scanning alot, I don't bother with mules too much, maybe 1 or 2 here or there but I scan for my scouting info, don't think this is a bad thing. I've played 2 games where I do a fast Reaper or two for scouting to take out some drones.

Here's my first game, I've been playing like this (pretty much) most of the time. Now I'm incorporating Medivacs into my marine/marauder though. Trying to use hotkeys on my buildings but not really doing so well with that. Always find myself resorting to mouse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caTtizqNNYo

Crit away! Also, 1080p so fullscreen is good.


You said previously that u never really drop mules. If math is correct. One mule can mine two hundred minerals in its time span. It is a must do if want to stay on income par with better opponents. Trust me lol.

Below you can see my in game name. Feel free to add me. Before I took a break I was beating low masters people. Life is just to hectic. I would be more than happy to help.

Edit: by the way. What are you all using to record your videos that you uploaded to you tube? Fraps?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Anti!!*


You said previously that u never really drop mules. If math is correct. One mule can mine two hundred minerals in its time span. It is a must do if want to stay on income par with better opponents. Trust me lol.

Below you can see my in game name. Feel free to add me. Before I took a break I was beating low masters people. Life is just to hectic. I would be more than happy to help.

Edit: by the way. What are you all using to record your videos that you uploaded to you tube? Fraps?


Fraps + VirtualDub


----------



## SFYoda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15616822*
> Thanks that helps.
> 
> I have been scanning alot, I don't bother with mules too much, maybe 1 or 2 here or there but I scan for my scouting info, don't think this is a bad thing. I've played 2 games where I do a fast Reaper or two for scouting to take out some drones.
> 
> Here's my first game, I've been playing like this (pretty much) most of the time. Now I'm incorporating Medivacs into my marine/marauder though. Trying to use hotkeys on my buildings but not really doing so well with that. Always find myself resorting to mouse.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caTtizqNNYo
> 
> Crit away! Also, 1080p so fullscreen is good.


I know this is a big step but when you see your minerals getting around 1000 without any plans on using it try to expand and keep it lower. Try and aim for 24 SCV's on minerals and 3 on each gas (maximum without oversaturating).
Hot keys can be annoying to start using, just play and look at what you need then make sure you press the hotkey even if it takes a few extra seconds.
It's a good idea to also watch the pros go at it try http://www.teamliquid.net/sc2/ (Just pros playing on ladder/for fun) or http://www.gomtv.net/ (Global Starcraft Leauge).
If you want a friendly game or help (I am a Gold Zerg US server and SG server) PM me I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

Good luck, Have fun.

Quote:


> I would recommend skipping the practice league entirely. It gives you a false sense of "time" and you don't experience the pressure from a real game.


Best idea I did 3 games of practice then quit it, makes you get better faster.


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!;15621601*
> You said previously that u never really drop mules. If math is correct. One mule can mine two hundred minerals in its time span. It is a must do if want to stay on income par with better opponents. Trust me lol.
> 
> Below you can see my in game name. Feel free to add me. Before I took a break I was beating low masters people. Life is just to hectic. I would be more than happy to help.
> 
> Edit: by the way. What are you all using to record your videos that you uploaded to you tube? Fraps?


I remember hearing it was 180 minerals for mules. Anyway, it's spending I'm having problems with rather than money. Not really sure where to go after my opener, I'm trying to get more barracks into my play because I seem to get stuck on 2 or 3 when I should have 6 or 8.

Not sure if I should delve straight into training with someone good. I still don't have the basics down really.

I was playing some 2's earlier with a guy on here it was pretty fun. Won a couple, lost a couple. Sorry I can't remember your name, it was something like RldnT or something along those lines.

I record with Fraps, merge with Sony Vegas, render to uncompressed avi with Sony Vegas and compress with Easy h264 (Youtube ready setting cuts about 400MB off file size on a 10min 1080p video as compared to the Brassemmence HD). Takes longer but optimum quality and file size is worth it. I can upload 200MB in 20mins whereas 600MB takes an hour!


----------



## iambald

Mules provide 270 minerals.


----------



## HometownHero

Since the site is moving and will be down tomorrow, no one should have an excuse not to ladder tomorrow.


----------



## pelirrojo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15616822*
> Here's my first game, I've been playing like this (pretty much) most of the time. Now I'm incorporating Medivacs into my marine/marauder though. Trying to use hotkeys on my buildings but not really doing so well with that. Always find myself resorting to mouse.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caTtizqNNYo


I'm trying to figure out his opponent's build here....

As far as I can tell:
6 overlord
7 extractor
6 evo chamber
Put 3 guys on gas
9 pool

lol.

Quote:


> Anyway, it's spending I'm having problems with rather than money.


My god, your macro is SOOOOO bad.

Here's what you need to do:

Practice maxing out against very easy AI - just build scvs, units and depots on 2 or 3 bases until you hit 200 food. Try to hit 200 food as quickly as possible without getting supply blocked or letting your minerals get over 300. Don't worry about microing your army, just work on building units and depots.

You say you "don't know where to go" after your opening build. Fact is that at your level it doesn't really matter where you go as long as you spend all your money. I suggest going bio in every matchup for a long time because it's easier - just build an MMM ball and A-move it around while you work on your macro.

If your money is getting high, throw down more barracks and depots, or maybe an expo.

When you see your minerals or gas getting over like 300, you should feel panicky and like you need to get rid of them asap.


----------



## SprayN'Pray

Got my first draw today. PvP, he cannon rushed me. I tried to counter with a 4 gate, but could only afford 3. I placed these outside my base, away from the cannons. Turns out he was too quick and I could only get out a zealot, 2 sentries, and 3 stalkers. He killed off my base, I killed off his. We both had no spendable amount of minerals left and neither of us had the firepower to kill all the other buildings off. Interesting game, have any of you encountered a draw on the ladder?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SprayN'Pray;15627346*
> Got my first draw today. PvP, he cannon rushed me. I tried to counter with a 4 gate, but could only afford 3. I placed these outside my base, away from the cannons. Turns out he was too quick and I could only get out a zealot, 2 sentries, and 3 stalkers. He killed off my base, I killed off his. We both had no spendable amount of minerals left and neither of us had the firepower to kill all the other buildings off. Interesting game, have any of you encountered a draw on the ladder?


instead of trying to hide gates and chrono zealots you should've made a ninja nexus


----------



## SprayN'Pray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1;15627398*
> instead of trying to hide gates and chrono zealots you should've made a ninja nexus


I'll try that the next time someone cannon rushes me.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SprayN'Pray;15627435*
> I'll try that the next time someone cannon rushes me.


Actually scout it and drop a forge and position canons to prevent him from encroaching on your nexus is the best defense or a stalker to snipe the probe dropping the canons, but thats hard to do if he's aggressive with his canons


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pelirrojo;15627213*
> I'm trying to figure out his opponent's build here....
> 
> As far as I can tell:
> 6 overlord
> 7 extractor
> 6 evo chamber
> Put 3 guys on gas
> 9 pool
> 
> lol.
> 
> My god, your macro is SOOOOO bad.
> 
> Here's what you need to do:
> 
> Practice maxing out against very easy AI - just build scvs, units and depots on 2 or 3 bases until you hit 200 food. Try to hit 200 food as quickly as possible without getting supply blocked or letting your minerals get over 300. Don't worry about microing your army, just work on building units and depots.
> 
> You say you "don't know where to go" after your opening build. Fact is that at your level it doesn't really matter where you go as long as you spend all your money. I suggest going bio in every matchup for a long time because it's easier - just build an MMM ball and A-move it around while you work on your macro.
> 
> If your money is getting high, throw down more barracks and depots, or maybe an expo.
> 
> When you see your minerals or gas getting over like 300, you should feel panicky and like you need to get rid of them asap.


Thanks, it really helps.

I'll try and keep my supply up and my money down. I'll get a MMM ball and try and spend excess on more buildings, tanks and reinforcing units.

I'll try vs AI again, maybe I'll record it.

Been watching alot of streams on twitch.tv over the last month. I really enjoyed watching SlayerS players but now they've moved into a team house and can't waste their connection on streaming. I was a bit disappointed really, now I'm trying to watch some Terran players but they're few and far between, most people streaming are toss or zerg.

Edit: Can't play, battle.net is down in my area :/


----------



## Sainesk

not much this balance patch...







they finally added blizzcon portrait and season 3 league achievements though.


Spoiler: 1.4.2



*General*

-"Alert Fade" under Sound Options has been renamed to Game Volume During Alerts. Its tooltips have also been changed for clarification.

-The fade-in for game sound during alerts changed from .5 seconds to 2 seconds.

-Play-Time Schedule under Parental Controls now applies World of Warcraft settings to StarCraft II

*Bug Fixes*

-Fixed a truncation on specific resolution if the current and maximum supplies are 3 digits.

-Fixed an issue which prevented footprints from being edited in the Footprint Editor.

-Fixed an issue that caused the game to have missing icons and images on low end graphics cards.

*PROTOSS*

-Forge:
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

*TERRAN*

-Ghost: EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

*ZERG*

-You get nothing, you lose, good day sir!


----------



## Reflux

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*PROTOSS*

-Forge:
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250



Wow, and I thought Protoss were already really good when they were upgraded.


----------



## pelirrojo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux;15628036*
> I'll try vs AI again, maybe I'll record it.


Don't "try vs AI again". Do it over and over and over until your macro isn't so bad. Maybe try vs AI again 50 times or so.

Once you can max out as fast as the pros, you can learn the tiniest bit of strategy and catapult to plat+ easily.


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pelirrojo;15628902*
> Don't "try vs AI again". Do it over and over and over until your macro isn't so bad. Maybe try vs AI again 50 times or so.
> 
> Once you can max out as fast as the pros, you can learn the tiniest bit of strategy and catapult to plat+ easily.


I will keep practising. That's more what I'm using practice league for rather than playing vs AI, just so it's a bit more unpredictable I guess.

It's alot to keep in mind, again, I don't use those custom hotkeys yet. I can't get ultra pro before I even know what button to press. I keep messing up for factories and pressing BF instead of VF.

When I have resources up to say 1.1k which is happening sometimes, what do I do? I played against AI a few times and kept finding myself with large amounts again, I had 5 barracks, 2 with tech labs 1 reactor 2 regular ones.

Once I have all the standard buildings, what do I do? (Going barracks, factory, starport (sometimes 2 starports at once now, because people seem to ignore air units early on?)

I played a decent 1v1 where I actually managed to get a good read from a reaper scout and I walled off the main which worked like a charm by the way because he swept through with a 6pool after I scouted. Cleaned it up with m/m (didnt have a medivac at this time).

First time scouting has payed off really well, I'll definitely be doing it more.

Anyway, my reaper scout went through his base, I had scanned earlier to get an idea of what he was doing and saw roaches so I decided to get an extra medivac for my m/m. Then I saw no anti air! So I cancelled that medivac and transitioned into banshees, followed that up with cloaking to avoid his queens because I remembered queens have a decent anti air attack.

Waited for the banshees energy to get up a bit and went in with 2 banshees and another 2 queued, took down his expansion and then headed into the main, 3 queens came so I popped the cloak and he swore at me and quit.

Success!

I'm going to watch a few games on streams again for a while, because I couldn't find an opponent to play, it is 6:40AM though so I don't really blame people for not wanting to play.


----------



## pelirrojo

Quote:


> When I have resources up to say 1.1k which is happening sometimes, what do I do? I played against AI a few times and kept finding myself with large amounts again, I had 5 barracks, 2 with tech labs 1 reactor 2 regular ones.


Build a bunch of rax, build a bunch of depots, maybe a CC...

Don't be afraid to build like 15 barracks or something. As you play more, you'll get a feel for how many rax you can support on a given number of bases. For now, build more barracks than you think you should (and build depots like 2 or 3 at a time when your money starts getting high like this and you start building lots of rax).

One helpful tip: use camera hotkeys for your main and natural bases (set them with control+f2 and control+f3). After setting an scv to construct a building, hit one of your camera hotkeys, and shift click it back to the mineral patch. This will cause it to go straight back to mining after making the building.

Quote:


> Once I have all the standard buildings, what do I do? (Going barracks, factory, starport (sometimes 2 starports at once now, because people seem to ignore air units early on?


It obviously depends on your strategy. But, imo, until your macro is solid, your only strategy should be to build moar barracks.

If you macro well, I bet you could get to ~gold league by building nothing but marines on 2 bases. Literally nothing but scvs, marines, depots and rax. And engineering bays and upgrades. Turtle on 2 bases, produce marines constantly, wait for 2/2, combat shields and stim finish. A-move all marines to enemy base. Congrats you're in gold league.

I know I sound like a broken record because I keep harping on this... But if you want to not suck at sc2, your macro needs to be better. It doesn't even matter what strategy you use if you're floating 1k+ minerals and gas. In that TvZ video you posted, with the units you had, assuming you didn't stutter step micro your bio ball, I could literally have beaten you with nothing but workers because I would have had so much more supply.

My macro sucked too at first. I fixed it by practicing maxing out against AI until I could macro without ever letting my money getting over ~300 even on 3 or 4 bases as zerg. Then I started gradually adding in unit micro as I became more and more comfortable. I stepped up from the easy AI to the multitasking trainer custom map eventually. Just what worked for me.

Quote:


> again, I don't use those custom hotkeys yet


Another helpful tip... I rebound control and shift to the thumb buttons on my mouse. This makes it sooooo much easier to hit control f1-f4, and control or shift 7890.

I also rebound patrol to Q and hold position to w.

You'll figure out what works best for you.


----------



## Reflux

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pelirrojo*


Build a bunch of rax, build a bunch of depots, maybe a CC...

Don't be afraid to build like 15 barracks or something. As you play more, you'll get a feel for how many rax you can support on a given number of bases. For now, build more barracks than you think you should (and build depots like 2 or 3 at a time when your money starts getting high like this and you start building lots of rax).

One helpful tip: use camera hotkeys for your main and natural bases (set them with control+f2 and control+f3). After setting an scv to construct a building, hit one of your camera hotkeys, and shift click it back to the mineral patch. This will cause it to go straight back to mining after making the building.

It obviously depends on your strategy. But, imo, until your macro is solid, your only strategy should be to build moar barracks.

If you macro well, I bet you could get to ~gold league by building nothing but marines on 2 bases. Literally nothing but scvs, marines, depots and rax. And engineering bays and upgrades. Turtle on 2 bases, produce marines constantly, wait for 2/2, combat shields and stim finish. A-move all marines to enemy base. Congrats you're in gold league.

I know I sound like a broken record because I keep harping on this... But if you want to not suck at sc2, your macro needs to be better. It doesn't even matter what strategy you use if you're floating 1k+ minerals and gas. In that TvZ video you posted, with the units you had, assuming you didn't stutter step micro your bio ball, I could literally have beaten you with nothing but workers because I would have had so much more supply.

My macro sucked too at first. I fixed it by practicing maxing out against AI until I could macro without ever letting my money getting over ~300 even on 3 or 4 bases as zerg. Then I started gradually adding in unit micro as I became more and more comfortable. I stepped up from the easy AI to the multitasking trainer custom map eventually. Just what worked for me.

Another helpful tip... I rebound control and shift to the thumb buttons on my mouse. This makes it sooooo much easier to hit control f1-f4, and control or shift 7890.

I also rebound patrol to Q and hold position to w.

You'll figure out what works best for you.


Thanks. I am trying to focus on macro but I get drawn away when other things happen. Another need for me to get those darn hotkeys into my game.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Reflux*


Thanks. I am trying to focus on macro but I get drawn away when other things happen. Another need for me to get those darn hotkeys into my game.


One one base with 4 rax if you are CONSTANTLY PRODUCING marines/marauders you should never have that much money. Its not the number of rax its the always producing SOMETHING.

Hotkeys are useful, so even if you are attacking you can press your rax/factory/starport hotkey and keep producing units. This is much easier with terran than with warp gates (where you have to actually look at a pylon to warp in)

On several occasions producing units while attacking has saved me from a counter attack (I lost my attacking force but due to hot keys + producing units during battle I had a bigger force at home then he had left after my attack)


----------



## Sainesk

I had an interesting team game today... early game my teammates 1 sieged tank got rushed by slings and me as P placed 3 forcefields to shield it before they got to it but unfortunately didn't have enough energy for a fourth. Would 4 be enough to fully surround a tank and shield it while it pwns the slings?


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> One one base with 4 rax if you are CONSTANTLY PRODUCING marines/marauders you should never have that much money. Its not the number of rax its the always producing SOMETHING.
> 
> Hotkeys are useful, so even if you are attacking you can press your rax/factory/starport hotkey and keep producing units. This is much easier with terran than with warp gates (where you have to actually look at a pylon to warp in)
> 
> On several occasions producing units while attacking has saved me from a counter attack (I lost my attacking force but due to hot keys + producing units during battle I had a bigger force at home then he had left after my attack)


Thanks. I just can't stay on top of macro with Terran, I played about 15 games against AI doing as people said, m/m/m ball + attack move, but I still have a load of unspent minerals and gas.

I've been playing some Protoss for the past few days and I've been doing a bit better, I've actually managed to start using hotkeys with Protoss too. 1 for base and 2 for gateways. I havn't worked anything else in but I'm getting them in there. It's much easier to keep the money spent too.


----------



## Sabregod

Hello guys,

I have the Starcraft 2 Starter Edition so I'm focused towards playing as Terran. Can anyone recommend me a guide regarding scouting. After I send my SCV to the enemy's base, I really don't know what units should I create/or structures that I should build because I'm only familiar when it comes to structures/units of Terran. Is there a comprehensive chart/guide about the units/structures of each races and what are the signs that they're opting for a specific build and how to counter it of course?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sabregod*
> 
> Hello guys,
> I have the Starcraft 2 Starter Edition so I'm focused towards playing as Terran. Can anyone recommend me a guide regarding scouting. After I send my SCV to the enemy's base, I really don't know what units should I create/or structures that I should build because I'm only familiar when it comes to structures/units of Terran. Is there a comprehensive chart/guide about the units/structures of each races and what are the signs that they're opting for a specific build and how to counter it of course?


You'll get experience as you play more games. This may help though:

Early scouting:



General game plan:



Also have a look at the guides and videos linked in the OP.

How do you guys find the new forum layout? I quite like it, but it's gonna take some time getting used to.


----------



## CravinR1

I played a interesting game today, actually won it thanks to scouting.

I am gold (he ended up being platinum) and went random. I was protoss (my best race) so when I scouted he had a gate down like he was walling off (vs zerg?) but when he saw i was toss he canceled the gate and put down a forge (luckly I scouted it and put down a forge of my own)

Well after a ton of pressure I had defensive canons and kept his canons from pushing in. Then thanks to better macro I was able to come back. I made a video i'm going to post to youtube tonight and will link tomorrow if anyone is interested. I tried to tell what I was thinking in the video and why I made the units I made.


----------



## CravinR1

I was planning to just edit the video into the last post, but this thread needs bumped. I hope the new format doesn't see it die









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SprayN'Pray;15627435*
> I'll try that the next time someone cannon rushes me.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually scout it and drop a forge and position canons to prevent him from encroaching on your nexus is the best defense or a stalker to snipe the probe dropping the canons, but thats hard to do if he's aggressive with his canons
Click to expand...

Here is what I did when I found someone trying to canon rush (I know I made mistakes in this game, which is why i'm gold and not plat-diamond)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_0wdC6sJE&feature=youtu.be


----------



## HometownHero

Looks like TL picked up Zenio. Interesting choice for them.

Also, I played Skyrim for almost 8 hours yesterday, my first ladder game is going to be messy today.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux*
> 
> I remember hearing it was 180 minerals for mules. Anyway, it's spending I'm having problems with rather than money. Not really sure where to go after my opener, I'm trying to get more barracks into my play because I seem to get stuck on 2 or 3 when I should have 6 or 8.
> 
> Not sure if I should delve straight into training with someone good. I still don't have the basics down really.
> 
> I was playing some 2's earlier with a guy on here it was pretty fun. Won a couple, lost a couple. Sorry I can't remember your name, it was something like RldnT or something along those lines.
> 
> I record with Fraps, merge with Sony Vegas, render to uncompressed avi with Sony Vegas and compress with Easy h264 (Youtube ready setting cuts about 400MB off file size on a 10min 1080p video as compared to the Brassemmence HD). Takes longer but optimum quality and file size is worth it. I can upload 200MB in 20mins whereas 600MB takes an hour!


I assume sony vegas is something i have to purchase, right?


----------



## CravinR1

Sony Vegas offers a limited free trial, but yes its a paid for program (and very complicated, I have it and no idea how to use it)

Which technically Fraps offers a free trial but limits the time of the recording to a couple min, so you'd have to keep restarting the recording

I've not tried it, but camstudio is free and may can record a windowed vs of SC2


----------



## 13321G4

Hi guys

Hope you guys are willing to give me some critique. I lost a PvZ to mass zerglings. My strat PvZ is to start with a 3 gate blink timing attack (I believe it should be in HuK's style) and then to transition into HT with chargelots. At the time I wanted to push with my army I noticed his blings so retreated. Seen I was getting wave after wave I tried to jump the tech tree straight into HT so I could storm their asses.

I believe I lost because I couldn't get an expo up nor could I pressure him so he had a massive economic advantage.

I play bronze.

PvZ Mass Zerglings.zip 55k .zip file


Thanks in advanced!

Edit:
Wrong file


----------



## Alex132

Checking out the replay now rlnd


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> rlnd you made several mistakes in sc2 :/
> 
> you should really watch day[9]'s nooby tuesday on making probes etc


You blaming it on my probe production?
Also, are you watching the PvP or the PvZ. The PvP was a mistake to upload.

I stopped probe production on purpose when I wanted to push. Continued it again after the first wave, I wanted to at least.
My army misplacement was because I wanted to harass but then he came at me so I had to retreat.

What else did you see?

Going to see how fast I can 200/200 in PvAI


----------



## Alex132

Basically just a few timing errors as well as stock piling minerals later on. You took forever to get a cybernetics core and to actually get out that sentry / warp gate tech despite having the min / gas for it.

Also bad decision making when you got stalkers instead of sentries. You should have just got more sentries (2-4) and just forcefeilded off the ramp (4= infinite) until he gave up, in the meanwhile getting up a robo because he probably would have tried some more cheese (DTs) if that failed. But make it essential that you get the observer first (chrono boosted) and another after that (to stay at home) out to scout his base in case he tried to follow up with some more mass gateway or voidrays.

Also pushing with your army when you killed his zealots could have been very bad, you should have just stayed home and expanded and teched up. Play it safe for a definite win.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Basically just a few timing errors as well as stock piling minerals later on. You took forever to get a cybernetics core and to actually get out that sentry / warp gate tech despite having the min / gas for it.
> 
> Also bad decision making when you got stalkers instead of sentries. You should have just got more sentries (2-4) and just forcefeilded off the ramp (4= infinite) until he gave up, in the meanwhile getting up a robo because he probably would have tried some more cheese (DTs) if that failed. But make it essential that you get the observer first (chrono boosted) and another after that (to stay at home) out to scout his base in case he tried to follow up with some more mass gateway or voidrays.
> 
> Also pushing with your army when you killed his zealots could have been very bad, you should have just stayed home and expanded and teched up. Play it safe for a definite win.


Aah you áre referring to that PvP I mistakenly uploaded.

Didn't feel all to good about that game but won so didn't watch the replay. (Wins are boring







)

It's this PvZ that I'm worried about.

Also, It took me 16:15 to max out with 3/2/0 upgrades and charge.
Got supply blocked often


----------



## CravinR1

3 gate blink salkers is only strong vs roach. If you don't scout roaches then you're better to go sentry/zealot

Also 1-2 gate FE (sentry zealot) or forge FE is the new toss vs zerg openin, watching replay now (I'm only a gold toss but i'll upload my last PvZ)

Shakuras Plateau (5).zip 32k .zip file


I watched the replay, you needed better ff and/or canons. A few canons would stop them from having free reign (like 2-3 that can hit lings in min line without being surrounded)


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> 3 gate blink salkers is only strong vs roach. If you don't scout roaches then you're better to go sentry/zealot
> Also 1-2 gate FE or forge FE is the new toss vs zerg openin, watching replay now (I'm only a gold toss but i'll upload my last PvZ)
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (5).zip 32k .zip file


Forge FE can be really strong v zerg, but you have to be careful to sim city correctly. Map selection kind of dictates this too.

A transition into stargate is pretty popular after a quick FE. You can get solid map control and do a decent amount of harassment so long as you dont reveal the voids/phoenixes too early.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> 3 gate blink salkers is only strong vs roach. If you don't scout roaches then you're better to go sentry/zealot
> 
> Also 1-2 gate FE (sentry zealot) or forge FE is the new toss vs zerg openin, watching replay now (I'm only a gold toss but i'll upload my last PvZ)
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (5).zip 32k .zip file
> 
> 
> I watched the replay, you needed better ff and/or canons. A few canons would stop them from having free reign (like 2-3 that can hit lings in min line without being surrounded)


I couldn't FF because my army was misplaced. (I was actually sending 1 full energy sentry back to FF and then I scouted the attack so I went into full retreat, regretfully arriving too late.)
Didn't have a forge up at the time so couldn't get cannons.
It would have been smart though, thanks! Appreciate it!

Other mechanics or macro things I need to pay attention to? Or am I gold level with a lack of cannons


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I couldn't FF because my army was misplaced. (I was actually sending 1 full energy sentry back to FF and then I scouted the attack so I went into full retreat, regretfully arriving too late.)
> Didn't have a forge up at the time so couldn't get cannons.
> It would have been smart though, thanks! Appreciate it!
> Other mechanics or macro things I need to pay attention to? Or am I gold level with a lack of cannons


Your macro is slacking also. I need alot of work, but if you watch the replay I linked I was starting base #3 with 4 gates + stargate and constantly was producing something. If my money gets to 400 mins and i'm not supply blocked (due to not being able to make units) I make a expo or more gates. IF I go over 500 then I consider that a failure. My macro was horrible in the game I linked due to me trying to harass the zerg into making units instead of making drones, and I out macro'd him and took the win

i also HIGHLY recommend 3 gate robo or add a robo after you expo because you had NO scouting or vision at all. A obs or 3 is great for map vision. Also if he had of went burowed roaches with no forge or robo you'd been destroyed and harassed bad. He could split his roaches and take out both your min line. Not to mention infesters throwing out infested terrans and taking out both your bases.


----------



## 13321G4

Thanks!

I'm going to practice some vAI more to get that macro better.

Thanks for the detection tip. Reconsidering my strat now.


----------



## BulletsLikeBlades

my copy came in and i'll be running it monday/tuesday. been watching force commentate on game and I think i'm set on playing zerg. how people play is totally different than how I always played brood wars, I think I used to just always mass carriers/ultras/BCs in broodwar and it seems speed and small balanced groups are much more fun to watch lol. will be a new playing style for me to try and actually get serious when playing now. i'm excited. Look forward to seeing some of you on.


----------



## Alex132

Hey guys can you give me some feedback on a PvT I just played, apart from my macro slipping towards the mid-ish to end game what else could I have improved on?

(btw this is the US servers, an I use pangolinman's account to play on US)

Pango_Alex132 vs Flipper [PvT].zip 52k .zip file


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hey guys can you give me some feedback on a PvT I just played, apart from my macro slipping towards the mid-ish to end game what else could I have improved on?
> (btw this is the US servers, an I use pangolinman's account to play on US)
> 
> Pango_Alex132 vs Flipper [PvT].zip 52k .zip file


Says the replay could not be open. Try uploading it again.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Says the replay could not be open. Try uploading it again.


Unzip it

I'm only gold but some questions I have are:

Why did you build at ramp vs terran (were they random?) and why did you drop a pylon when they saw your probe and why did u not cancel the pylon when it was immediately attacked

Why a pyloin at 21/26 food? Second gas at 26 supply seems late.

He was on 2 bases way before you, instead of dropping the pylon and getting your probe killed why didn't you put the probe in the natural to scout any expos, if you were going to lose a pylon why not one behind the mineral line of the natural to scout the expo timing? You had 35 probes on one base

He was starting his third when you were starting your second, also why not leave a obs outside the ramp to see him move out? And you didn't transfer enough workers at all to your natural.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm only gold but some questions I have are:
> 
> Why did you build at ramp vs terran (were they random?) and why did you drop a pylon when they saw your probe and why did u not cancel the pylon when it was immediately attacked


Scouted 3 rax, expected early push.... it never came >-> And I was Random btw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Why a pylon at 21/26 food? Second gas at 26 supply seems late.


Isn't it normal to get a pylon at ~22? Can't remember now









edit- nvm that was a blunder.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> He was on 2 bases way before you, instead of dropping the pylon and getting your probe killed why didn't you put the probe in the natural to scout any expos, if you were going to lose a pylon why not one behind the mineral line of the natural to scout the expo timing?


Wanted to make him think I was cannon rushing, scaring him into pulling many SCV's off the line (he didnt really).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> You had 35 probes on one base


So when I had my expo(s) up I could transfer probes across

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> He was starting his third when you were starting your second, also why not leave a obs outside the ramp to see him move out? And you didn't transfer enough workers at all to your natural.


Hmmm yeah gonna try that next time, thanks


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hey guys can you give me some feedback on a PvT I just played, apart from my macro slipping towards the mid-ish to end game what else could I have improved on?
> (btw this is the US servers, an I use pangolinman's account to play on US)
> 
> Pango_Alex132 vs Flipper [PvT].zip 52k .zip file


I've watched the replay and here's some general advice:


This pylon in his base was totally random. You don't even have your core down at this time. Terran didn't even had to attack it with SCVs as he'll get marines to kill it way before you can warp in anything. Basically you just thrown away 100 minerals there.
Rather than making useless pylons and running circles you should be scouting your opponent with your first probe. Particularly you want to see his gas timing (you didn't even look at his gases). No gas till 15 food means either gasless expand or 3 rax all-in. If you see a second depot in his base it's a gasless expand. Around 3:05 you want to leave his base as that's when the first marine pops out. You can then park your probe at his expansion and go up the ramp again around 4 minutes too see what units he has, possibly an add-on on barracks and whether or not he's making a bunker. If you see a marauder you'll know it's bio if there are only marines it's probably tech (if he took gas) and bunker means there's no sudden aggression so you can be a bit greedy for a while. In any case if there are no marauders you want to get an obs as soon as possible. Also if there are only few marines and no bunker you can poke with your first zealot stalker to pick some off and further scout him. And finally you should leave your probe (or if it dies send another one) at the exit from his natural to see when he's moving out.
You should get a solid opening and learn to execute it well. 4 gate robo is not a good opening by any means, unless you're going to all-in with it. You just can't afford to produce from that many structures on one base while making probes and pylons. I recommend 2 or 3 gate robo with fast observer as a safe choice.
Speaking about probes you should be making them constantly. You had pauses in probe production during just first few minutes of the game.
You generally should aim to expand before 6:30 (at the latest) unless you have confirmed an early aggresion with your probe. In the worst case you can cancel the expo if you see him attacking with you observer.
In the situation like in this game if you opponent fast expands you have to either all-in as soon as possible or expand. You did neither and that gave him pretty big advantage.
You should work on your mechanics and put down things on time. Your first pylon should go down at 0:48, but it goes down at 0:53. Then your all next buildings and tech are delayed as well. It doesn't seem like much of a difference, but your warpgate research is delayed 30 seconds, any 2 base timing would be late by at least a minute and you max out like 2 minutes later as all the little things add up.
Hallucination is pretty useless against terran.
You should have a general game plan. Cancelling bay and going HTs was ok, but it's good to have a plan for your whole game. Around 11 minutes you had no tech to deal with MMM push which could've come and you need to have +1/+1, chargelot archon or colossus at this point to be safe. Mid game archons are a safer choice than storm. An example good plan is: 2 gate robo -> expand -> twilight + forge asap -> charge, +1 armor, templar archives -> chargelot archon -> 3rd -> add another robo and bay and start pumping colossi.
Keep your HTs spread.
Commit if you know you can win. At like 21 minutes he had half of your army but you didn't commit to an attack.
Keep adding production structures after you're maxed. Even if you lose your whole army reinforcing from 20 gateways can still keep you in the game.
You still won lol, protoss op.

Hope that helps.









Edit: Yeah, you should not wall-off against terran. It only may help against hellions. Against bio aggresion it puts you at a disadvantage, because you cannot get a good concave up your ramp, while terran can destroy your buildings from the bottom.


----------



## yks

How come no one ever wants to 1v1 on OCN anymore?

What happened to OCN Fight Nights! Where like 12 of us lined up to play/obs


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> How come no one ever wants to 1v1 on OCN anymore?
> What happened to OCN Fight Nights! Where like 12 of us lined up to play/obs


That would be awesome







. It would be easy to set up if we use the overclock.net in-game chat, or even Playhem if we wanted to get sophisticated.

I think that if we thought there was enough interest, we should start a new thread to notify people who don't frequent this one very often as its gotten pretty long.

Color me interested.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> How come no one ever wants to 1v1 on OCN anymore?
> What happened to OCN Fight Nights! Where like 12 of us lined up to play/obs


I blame it on my busy life, and those achievements, gotta get them all + I just got my Harry Potter DVD collection yesterday lol









but those were fun, maybe I can post in OP a section with times for OCN get-togethers/events?

I think i'll be less busy after next Monday.


----------



## QuadDamage

I have been playing more add me QuadDamage 454


----------



## onoz

I want to get out of Gold, and all of my friends keep telling me to watch pro Protoss players. Anyone know who I should follow, and where I can watch replays?


----------



## CravinR1

justin.tv is where most the pro's stream.

I'd watch EGHuk, or Kiwikaki


----------



## Fortunex

WhiteRa too.


----------



## CravinR1

Whitera is very creative and uses "special tactics"

Watch Husky or Day9 also


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> WhiteRa too.


but he lost to a 6 pool...










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



all-in, I kid... he was pretty cool about it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTPGielrFz4&feature



I second Day9 and HuK all the way. GSL sometimes has some interesting Protoss players with unique play-styles too...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I've watched the replay and here's some general advice:
> 
> This pylon in his base was totally random. You don't even have your core down at this time. Terran didn't even had to attack it with SCVs as he'll get marines to kill it way before you can warp in anything. Basically you just thrown away 100 minerals there.
> Rather than making useless pylons and running circles you should be scouting your opponent with your first probe. Particularly you want to see his gas timing (you didn't even look at his gases). No gas till 15 food means either gasless expand or 3 rax all-in. If you see a second depot in his base it's a gasless expand. Around 3:05 you want to leave his base as that's when the first marine pops out. You can then park your probe at his expansion and go up the ramp again around 4 minutes too see what units he has, possibly an add-on on barracks and whether or not he's making a bunker. If you see a marauder you'll know it's bio if there are only marines it's probably tech (if he took gas) and bunker means there's no sudden aggression so you can be a bit greedy for a while. In any case if there are no marauders you want to get an obs as soon as possible. Also if there are only few marines and no bunker you can poke with your first zealot stalker to pick some off and further scout him. And finally you should leave your probe (or if it dies send another one) at the exit from his natural to see when he's moving out.
> You should get a solid opening and learn to execute it well. 4 gate robo is not a good opening by any means, unless you're going to all-in with it. You just can't afford to produce from that many structures on one base while making probes and pylons. I recommend 2 or 3 gate robo with fast observer as a safe choice.
> Speaking about probes you should be making them constantly. You had pauses in probe production during just first few minutes of the game.
> You generally should aim to expand before 6:30 (at the latest) unless you have confirmed an early aggresion with your probe. In the worst case you can cancel the expo if you see him attacking with you observer.
> In the situation like in this game if you opponent fast expands you have to either all-in as soon as possible or expand. You did neither and that gave him pretty big advantage.
> You should work on your mechanics and put down things on time. Your first pylon should go down at 0:48, but it goes down at 0:53. Then your all next buildings and tech are delayed as well. It doesn't seem like much of a difference, but your warpgate research is delayed 30 seconds, any 2 base timing would be late by at least a minute and you max out like 2 minutes later as all the little things add up.
> Hallucination is pretty useless against terran.
> You should have a general game plan. Cancelling bay and going HTs was ok, but it's good to have a plan for your whole game. Around 11 minutes you had no tech to deal with MMM push which could've come and you need to have +1/+1, chargelot archon or colossus at this point to be safe. Mid game archons are a safer choice than storm. An example good plan is: 2 gate robo -> expand -> twilight + forge asap -> charge, +1 armor, templar archives -> chargelot archon -> 3rd -> add another robo and bay and start pumping colossi.
> Keep your HTs spread.
> Commit if you know you can win. At like 21 minutes he had half of your army but you didn't commit to an attack.
> Keep adding production structures after you're maxed. Even if you lose your whole army reinforcing from 20 gateways can still keep you in the game.
> You still won lol, protoss op.
> Hope that helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Yeah, you should not wall-off against terran. It only may help against hellions. Against bio aggresion it puts you at a disadvantage, because you cannot get a good concave up your ramp, while terran can destroy your buildings from the bottom.


You sir need some rep. That was a well put together description for anyone lower than high masters. I play Zerg only and you helped me. Lol


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> I want to get out of Gold, and all of my friends keep telling me to watch pro Protoss players. Anyone know who I should follow, and where I can watch replays?


Huk has excellent control, some say even top 3







.

I would also watch some top Koreans like Oz, MC, and Puzzle. Replay sites like sc2replayed.com and sc2-replays.net are good places to start. Also, you can watch pro players stream live via twitch.tv; Team Liquid has a list of people currently stream on the right hand side of their website.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> How come no one ever wants to 1v1 on OCN anymore?
> What happened to OCN Fight Nights! Where like 12 of us lined up to play/obs


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> That would be awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It would be easy to set up if we use the overclock.net in-game chat, or even Playhem if we wanted to get sophisticated.
> I think that if we thought there was enough interest, we should start a new thread to notify people who don't frequent this one very often as its gotten pretty long.
> Color me interested.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I blame it on my busy life, and those achievements, gotta get them all + I just got my Harry Potter DVD collection yesterday lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but those were fun, maybe I can post in OP a section with times for OCN get-togethers/events?
> I think i'll be less busy after next Monday.


Everybody just needs to remember to check "Auto-Join Private Channels" in their options and make sure they're in the Overclock.net channel whenever they're on! With the influx of new players, I'd be good for em to play each other.


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> justin.tv is where most the pro's stream.
> I'd watch EGHuk, or Kiwikaki


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> WhiteRa too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Whitera is very creative and uses "special tactics"
> Watch Husky or Day9 also


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> but he lost to a 6 pool...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> all-in, I kid... he was pretty cool about it...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTPGielrFz4&feature
> 
> 
> I second Day9 and HuK all the way. GSL sometimes has some interesting Protoss players with unique play-styles too...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Huk has excellent control, some say even top 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I would also watch some top Koreans like Oz, MC, and Puzzle. Replay sites like sc2replayed.com and sc2-replays.net are good places to start. Also, you can watch pro players stream live via twitch.tv; Team Liquid has a list of people currently stream on the right hand side of their website.


Thanks guys!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Everybody just needs to remember to check "Auto-Join Private Channels" in their options and make sure they're in the Overclock.net channel whenever they're on! With the influx of new players, I'd be good for em to play each other.


I'll be sure to get on the Overclock.net channel every time I log in.


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm low level plat I'm down to play with whoever. I have beaten masters and even lost to sliver so doesn't really matter who. I play random but I can help u with whatever lmk


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Everybody just needs to remember to check "Auto-Join Private Channels" in their options and make sure they're in the Overclock.net channel whenever they're on! With the influx of new players, I'd be good for em to play each other.


Preaching to the choir my friend. Jedi is the only one I see on most of the time, but I'll be on tonight around 7 or 8 est for those interested.


----------



## mylilpony

I'm there auto. Any masters want to coach me? Diamond...having a lot of trouble post-patch as zerg/ win rate ladder was 2-1 last season now its 1-2. win rate custom vs daimond last season was 80-20 and custom vs low masters was 50/50,. now my win rate custom is 1-2 too.


----------



## HometownHero

I need a new TvZ opening for maps with narrow chokes. I normally open with 4-6 hellions, maybe more depending when I see the roach warren pop up. I switch to marine tank pretty quickly and push when I have siege, stim, and +1. It usually works really well for me as I can contain and expand safely, especially on maps like Metal. However, its been doing less damage as I start to play more diamonds than plat players.

I used to bunker rush and stopped during the bfh fad. What are the bunker rush timings and what maps should I look to rush on? I've seen some people, Taeja and Demuslim come to mind, transition into hellions and then a tank push. Thoughts?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I need a new TvZ opening for maps with narrow chokes. I normally open with 4-6 hellions, maybe more depending when I see the roach warren pop up. I switch to marine tank pretty quickly and push when I have siege, stim, and +1. It usually works really well for me as I can contain and expand safely, especially on maps like Metal. However, its been doing less damage as I start to play more diamonds than plat players.
> 
> I used to bunker rush and stopped during the bfh fad. What are the bunker rush timings and what maps should I look to rush on? I've seen some people, Taeja and Demuslim come to mind, transition into hellions and then a tank push. Thoughts?


Hi, I might just be Bronze but I still have an opinion 

Your upgrade tech path seems a bit split. You get stim and +1 bio attack which doesn't help your mech play in the slightest. Furthermore you have invested in bfh tech which you only use for your initial harass. This is fine íf you manage to cripple him enough, but leaves you far behind if you fail to.

I would suggest you get +1 mech attack with siege tanks and bfh. Add thors to the mix if he goes into air (mutalisks). Seems more tech efficient.

Please criticise if you don't agree.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## 13321G4

Sorry for the double post but the edit function of tapatalk seems to be mal functioning.

I would like to add that each time you stim your rines they take a hit. To compensate this you must/should add medivacs to your army. More tech money 'wasted' on half your army: the siege tanks won't benefit in the slightest.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

(Except if you add autorepair scv's to the mix, which would then repair the tanks whilst the damage the scv's take would be healed by the medivacs.)


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I need a new TvZ opening for maps with narrow chokes. I normally open with 4-6 hellions, maybe more depending when I see the roach warren pop up. I switch to marine tank pretty quickly and push when I have siege, stim, and +1. It usually works really well for me as I can contain and expand safely, especially on maps like Metal. However, its been doing less damage as I start to play more diamonds than plat players.
> I used to bunker rush and stopped during the bfh fad. What are the bunker rush timings and what maps should I look to rush on? I've seen some people, Taeja and Demuslim come to mind, transition into hellions and then a tank push. Thoughts?


Marine / Medivac / Tank seems very solid for a long TvT macro-based game but with TvZ it can be rather fragile IMO.

I would look back to the good ol' bio ball and vary your marine / marauder mix depending on whether the Zerg wants to react with mutalisk harass or baneling bust style or July Zerg all out non-stop offensive style.

If you wanna try something new just look at some good Terran players like Clide, NaDa, BoXer, MarineKing and Bomber


----------



## Heazy

What's the OCN channel on SC2?

Edit: NVM I'm in it


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Marine / Medivac / Tank seems very solid for a long TvT macro-based game but with TvZ it can be rather fragile IMO.
> 
> I would look back to the good ol' bio ball and vary your marine / marauder mix depending on whether the Zerg wants to react with mutalisk harass or baneling bust style or July Zerg all out non-stop offensive style.
> 
> If you wanna try something new just look at some good Terran players like Clide, NaDa, BoXer, MarineKing and Bomber


They seem to favor bunker rush into hellion or expo. Any criticism is appreciated, these are two results I had today:

2 Rax into Mech - TvZ
Felt ok about this match, but I feel like I could have taken out the hatch if I continued to rally rines as I had another bunker up.

2 rax expo against forge first - TvP
Played like blah this match. Should have just 1-1-1 and killed him as he didnt have any units until the 8 minute mark.


----------



## CravinR1

I favor 15 nexus vs terran, before cloaked banshees come my econo is kicked in and I can deal with the banshees. BUT if they do a Rine/Rauder/SCV all in i'm screwed


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I favor 15 nexus vs terran, before cloaked banshees come my econo is kicked in and I can deal with the banshees. BUT if they do a Rine/Rauder/SCV all in i'm screwed


I managed to take down a toss with cloaked banshee that did a 15 nexus.

It was extremely tight though


----------



## DoomDash

Blizzard downloader why you so slow? Finally loading this game onto my SSD after a fresh install.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I need a new TvZ opening for maps with narrow chokes. I normally open with 4-6 hellions, maybe more depending when I see the roach warren pop up. I switch to marine tank pretty quickly and push when I have siege, stim, and +1. It usually works really well for me as I can contain and expand safely, especially on maps like Metal. However, its been doing less damage as I start to play more diamonds than plat players.
> I used to bunker rush and stopped during the bfh fad. What are the bunker rush timings and what maps should I look to rush on? I've seen some people, Taeja and Demuslim come to mind, transition into hellions and then a tank push. Thoughts?


Play like MVP: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-365-p1-becoming-mvp-5679749

It really help my TvZ play to pretend to bunker rush to force him into building lings or pulling drones, and then go into the double reactor hellion play to force roaches before doing the regular tank push. It just feels like you're in control for the entire game.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Blizzard downloader why you so slow? Finally loading this game onto my SSD after a fresh install.


This mean you're going to play again or are you gonna let Vdek get Season 4 masters before you?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> This mean you're going to play again or are you gonna let Vdek get Season 4 masters before you?


I am in masters after my 1 game, but I am probably only high diamond level I bet atm







. You really lose your skills if you don't play in months.


----------



## CravinR1

I had a good game today. ZvP vs a platinum toss (I'm still only gold but says team even when I play plat so maybe a promotion in my future)

Basically he forge FE and he didn't see or ignored/forgot my drone scout so I put a hatch in his base and spammed roaches and won it faily easy.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I had a good game today. ZvP vs a platinum toss (I'm still only gold but says team even when I play plat so maybe a promotion in my future)
> Basically he forge FE and he didn't see or ignored/forgot my drone scout so I put a hatch in his base and spammed roaches and won it faily easy.


You get the best feeling after wining a game like this. Remember to watch that mini-map.


----------



## CravinR1

Tal'darim Altar LE (3) ZvP GvP BASE IN YO BASE.zip 18k .zip file


Replay added

He did something I thought fairly odd. I took out 2 of his 3 gates (was in the main and I took out the pylons) so he only h ad one gate. But he didn't produce out of it (though I did focus down the pylons in his main)

But he chrono'd +1 attack ......... I had like 18 roaches to his one stalkers + 2 canons in his expo (after I took out his main)


----------



## HometownHero

There's no way zealots should be this powerful in late game TvP. I lose so many games where I am ahead and then I lose to Mass zealot archon ht. What the hell do you build against something like that.

TvP from today. Fell apart to zealots. I feel like T has no response to the composition he had at the end.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> There's no way zealots should be this powerful in late game TvP. I lose so many games where I am ahead and then I lose to Mass zealot archon ht. What the hell do you build against something like that.
> TvP from today. Fell apart to zealots. I feel like T has no response to the composition he had at the end.


Micro and get marauders.


----------



## HometownHero

Looked at the replay, I had a supply lead which was essentially my vikings. I think I could have won if I landed them earlier. And I stopped at ~55 scvs...


----------



## Alex132

Gonna watch the replay now

EDIT LOL DUDE THAT'S IRL MY FRIEND YOU JUST PLAYED AGAINST









He is extremely good with Protoss (~top 25 masters) and same with Terran.

No wonder you lost









edit - just asked him. It wasn't him, lol.

What league are you?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> There's no way zealots should be this powerful in late game TvP. I lose so many games where I am ahead and then I lose to Mass zealot archon ht. What the hell do you build against something like that.
> TvP from today. Fell apart to zealots. I feel like T has no response to the composition he had at the end.


Try going ghost mech TvP. I've been going ghost mech in every match up and if you can hit late game and get a 200/200 army with only say 40 SCV's (utilizing mules from a few OC's) your army will be pure muscle. Pure muscle as in it will literally melt any army that Zerg/Toss can throw at you as they cant cut workers late game because they dont have Mules. You also don't have to worry about Ghost vs Templar battles as much, its much more macro based/decision making based with mech.

I'm a master Terran BTW.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> There's no way zealots should be this powerful in late game TvP. I lose so many games where I am ahead and then I lose to Mass zealot archon ht. What the hell do you build against something like that.
> TvP from today. Fell apart to zealots. I feel like T has no response to the composition he had at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> Try going ghost mech TvP. I've been going ghost mech in every match up and if you can hit late game and get a 200/200 army with only say 40 SCV's (utilizing mules from a few OC's) your army will be pure muscle. Pure muscle as in it will literally melt any army that Zerg/Toss can throw at you as they cant cut workers late game because they dont have Mules. You also don't have to worry about Ghost vs Templar battles as much, its much more macro based/decision making based with mech.
> 
> I'm a master Terran BTW.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that actually seems really interesting. I really like mech play in TvP but apart from 1-1-1 openings I havent really used a full mech strategy. Do you have any replays, or know of any that I could watch to get an opening and basic idea down?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Gonna watch the replay now
> 
> EDIT LOL DUDE THAT'S IRL MY FRIEND YOU JUST PLAYED AGAINST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is extremely good with Protoss (~top 25 masters) and same with Terran.
> 
> No wonder you lost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit - just asked him. It wasn't him, lol.
> 
> What league are you?


Hah, I'm plat so I dont think it was him. Been playing lots of diamonds recently, hoping for a promotion if I can get my late game TvP down. Youre on the EU server arent you Alex?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Hmmm, that actually seems really interesting. I really like mech play in TvP but apart from 1-1-1 openings I havent really used a full mech strategy. Do you have any replays, or know of any that I could watch to get an opening and basic idea down?
> Hah, I'm plat so I dont think it was him. Been playing lots of diamonds recently, hoping for a promotion if I can get my late game TvP down. Youre on the EU server arent you Alex?


I am Fluke - 214 on EU

and Pangolinman - 349 on AM


----------



## Mwarren

I do have replays but none of the replay sites are letting me upload replays for some odd reason. I like to open up banshee with no cloak to force observers (1/1/1) get out 3 factory's and an armory. I research nothing but +attack off of the armory and I get out a high thor/tank/hellion count paired up with ghosts. I normally push out when +2/3 is finished. Some games ill open up hellion drop. It's always a good idea to produce vikings too in case they go void ray or carrier to counter your mech based play.

Mech play rewards good macro the best out of all of the other terran play styles though. If you can macro really hard (get a fast third, get your factory production out right away and lose minimal units) you should be able to completely out macro your opponent because you can get maxed off of mech pretty fast. Late game I like to do hellion harass and ghost nuke harass too. I'll get out 3-5 ghost academys and get out nukes and nuke 3+ spots at once while harassing with bf hellions. It'll completely overwhelm your opponent and you'll have a very powerful army to back up the harass if they just straight up push you.

This style works against Terran and Zerg too. If you can get maxed against Zerg and split the map with ghost mech its basically GG because your army will destroy anything zerg can make including bl/festor and festor/ultra.


----------



## Alex132

Just upload the replay to OCN


----------



## 13321G4

My bad


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I do have replays but none of the replay sites are letting me upload replays for some odd reason. I like to open up banshee with no cloak to force observers (1/1/1) get out 3 factory's and an armory. I research nothing but +attack off of the armory and I get out a high thor/tank/hellion count paired up with ghosts. I normally push out when +2/3 is finished. Some games ill open up hellion drop. It's always a good idea to produce vikings too in case they go void ray or carrier to counter your mech based play.
> Mech play rewards good macro the best out of all of the other terran play styles though. If you can macro really hard (get a fast third, get your factory production out right away and lose minimal units) you should be able to completely out macro your opponent because you can get maxed off of mech pretty fast. Late game I like to do hellion harass and ghost nuke harass too. I'll get out 3-5 ghost academys and get out nukes and nuke 3+ spots at once while harassing with bf hellions. It'll completely overwhelm your opponent and you'll have a very powerful army to back up the harass if they just straight up push you.
> This style works against Terran and Zerg too. If you can get maxed against Zerg and split the map with ghost mech its basically GG because your army will destroy anything zerg can make including bl/festor and festor/ultra.


Use sc2replayed.com and use the manual upload function. I was having the same problem yesterday.

Alex you need to get an AM account...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Alex you need to get an AM account...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I am Fluke - 214 on EU
> 
> and Pangolinman - 349 on AM


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Didn't see you edit your post







. Will add you later tonight.


----------



## DoomDash

Wait, am I seeing this right? MLG Spoilers:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Naniwa beat MVP and Nestea?!!?!?!? Holy crap!!!


----------



## yks

NANIWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

tbh, nestea/mvp played like doo-doo


----------



## Alex132

Nestea is playing badly for some reason now :/


----------



## HometownHero

Dear god I love quad-view.


----------



## Alex132

Lol just played a 4v4 where in the start I had to go help my mom, so I was afk for the first 4 minutes of the game.

We still won, and I had the highest score by ~20 or so points


----------



## Sainesk

anybody know if the 3 workers max per patch also applies to the "Left 2 Die" custom games? just wondering if I can cut scv production after 3 per patch and spend it elsewhere when playing it...

I missed "here comes the hammer" achiev by like 5 seconds, *facepalm* thank you 1 missed stim...


----------



## iambald

I'd assume so.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm trying to play 2 games a day average now.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> From MC's series of tweets:
> 
> When we arrived in France, we met one Scammer and one pickpocket. The one scammer looked us and because we looked asian, he said that he would buy the tickets for us, and told us that it'd be 14 euro for one person and then pretended like he was buying it with his card and asked for money -.- after he took it out of his hands we found out that one ticket costs 1 euro 70 cents. And so we told him that since we didn't ask him to buy it for us he should just leave, he just left.
> 
> We heard the train coming so we ran to the train and got on it but as soon as I did I felt that my wallet wasn't there anymore. So I thought I lost it so I got off and looked for it, and a French guy pointed at someone and told me he took my wallet so I chased that person.
> 
> I ran after him like I was filming an action movie and he just go on the railway stupidly. And so I got on the railway and in disbelief I tapped him on the back. He looked at me and he was completely surprised. I think he was a noob pickpocket. And then he looked at me as if asking me what's wrong, so I told him "My wallet".
> 
> Then he was trying to get off the train so I grabbed him and I told him "You wanna fight me?". And then I told him in Korean "You wanna fight me?" and grabbed his hand behind him, and then he says "Sorry" and he gave me my wallet. I was going to punch him in the face then I remembered that I was a foreigner.
> 
> And so since I felt that a lot of people were looking at me, I checked my wallet and then said "He ******* thief". There was someone who recognized me and that person told me if I would like to go to the police but I said it was okay because I got my wallet back so I let him go. He ran away really fast at the next stop.
> 
> I've been in foreign countries a lot but this was the first time something like this has happened to me. I hope all of you become aware of pickpockets and scammers when you travel.
> 
> Oh, and when I got off the train and looked for the hotel, A french person kindly and cheerfully guided me. No matter where you go, I think there are bad people and good people.


----------



## HometownHero

Lol. I wouldn't want to fight kratos either.


----------



## CravinR1

I'd say he was more afraid of jail instead if a 5'2" Korean. Once a thief is busted they want as far away as possible ASAP


----------



## Anti!!

Hmmm...

MC

MVP

Or Neelock

I guess I will have to pull for a zerg i dont really like. But I am the swarm. haha

Especially after the infestor use I just witnessed.


----------



## Alex132

*Leenock

I am so going for the Kratos Protoss.

Overall definitely Nestea


----------



## Anti!!

Apparently I do not know about of all the players left in the bracket.

I shall take a look.


----------



## HometownHero

Naniwa beats DRG. MVP beats Leenock. DRG drops down to beat MVP. Naniwa beats DRG in the finals.


----------



## Alex132

I really feel like Naniwa is just getting lucky


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Can't be luck when you beat Nestea twice 2-1. Also, Leenock playing really, really well against MVP right now.


----------



## Alex132

I mean for the whole tournament, also Nestea is doing really badly


----------



## Anti!!

LLLLEEEEEENNNNOOOKKKKKKKKK

DRG beats naniwa

Edit: Even if Naniwa wins, based on the way Leenock beat EGHuk. I think Leenock wins out unless he botches it.

Also, MVP coulda won the first game. ^^


----------



## Alex132

Leenock is doing really well considering he is kinda sub-par in the GSL.

Really wanted to see some of MarineKing TvZ and Bomber's TvT


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> ^^ Can't be luck when you beat Nestea twice 2-1. Also, Leenock playing really, really well against MVP right now.


If you follow GSL you'd know Nestea has been slumping all month long/playing very poorly. I'm not surprised at his performance. But, Naniwa has been playing very well.


----------



## StarDestroyer

on the hardest or 2nd harest setting., I kept getting over run by zerg the 1st level you face them

I would build lots of bunkers, resources were tight, or I needed even more miners,

any tips?


----------



## DoomDash

oh my god naniwa.


----------



## HometownHero

Naniwa fighting!


----------



## Anti!!

sheesh..

DRG GOT ROLLED.


----------



## BountyHead

I really dislike how FF will push lings away from the sentries, I find it frustrating. If the lings on actively hitting a unit why does it separate them like that. It just shows with good ff you can 1a your way to victory. That last big push from Nani all his zealots were trapped behind his Stalkers.


----------



## FlyingNugget

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



leenock vs DRG was pretty intense. CANNOT WAIT FOR Leenock vs naniwa



Man.... SC owns


----------



## CravinR1

Learn to use the (spoiler)(/spoiler) (replace the parenthesis with brackets () with [ ] )


----------



## Anti!!

Leenock fighting.


----------



## HometownHero

Terran still op?


----------



## Anti!!

lol!! Who ever says any race is OP at all is just being a cry baby.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Leenock is doing really well considering he is kinda sub-par in the GSL.
> Really wanted to see some of MarineKing TvZ and Bomber's TvT


Leenock is not subpar in the GSL. Have you seen his opponents? He just gets the worst luck in his groups/drawings ever and gets paired with top 3 finishers and people in their height.


----------



## CravinR1

Who says FF are OP ?

My first 2 were great, my next 3 were meh, the subsequent ones sucked

BUT 2 sentry and 4 zealots and 2 stalkers vs all in 12 zealot/ 9 rauders
















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbxiuvIEjik&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> lol!! Who ever says any race is OP at all is just being a cry baby.


True.

Anyone on up for some team games? I'm a total noob but I really enjoy it.

Reflux:347


----------



## Alex132

ForceFeilds are so awesome especially against Zerg


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*
> 
> on the hardest or 2nd harest setting., I kept getting over run by zerg the 1st level you face them
> I would build lots of bunkers, resources were tight, or I needed even more miners,
> any tips?


Assuming you mean the singleplayer, same rules as in multiplayer apply, always build workers (untill you have 3 per mineral patch and gas) always build supply always build out of all your unit producing structures. Do not queue up units but do keep your money low, if you have more money than you can spend in 1 production cycle then you need more unit producing structures.

doing that the mission is dead easy, if you choose to make bunkers make sure you keep scv's repairing them if nto mass marines with lots of medics works fine.


----------



## Sainesk

any Left 2 Die pros here?









(although this custom seems to have been left to die so few play it...







)

what order do you do research in to beat it before the 5th night on brutal, I'm pretty sure anything works considering i've come within 5 seconds tons of times with partners who do ridiculous builds but I was wondering if there is an almost perfect research order.

I was thinking:

building armor (less damage to buildings = less repairing = more marines early game,)
medics asap,
healing upgrade,
stim, (get around faster and with healing upgrade and a few medics marines can constantly stim)
then the attack upgrades for marines

after medics though i'm not sure of the next best thing to spend research points (or whatever it's named) on, maybe reapers. Or tanks, because they're not as fragile and have high range?


----------



## HarrisLam

hey guys!

just wondering how your computers running the game so far?

Im playing with sig rig and i do fine from 1v1 to 4v4, but then I tried the random-new-custom-game thingyin NA server last night, and I was getting some intense lag, FPS dipping down to as low as 15, basically range from 15-40 from some custom map.

Don't know the name of the map(as that section lets you play games that aren't officially published yet so..), but it starts you off at the corner of the map as terran, and you are to kill all zerg in the map, with infested terran and other zerg units constantly running towards you.

I don't know what the problem is. I don't think its a connection problem since when there is one, I can see stutters but no change in FPS.

I'm thinking theres probably too many units on the map for the computer to handle because of the endless stream of infested terran, but then again its sandy bridge 2500 already....this game being THIS CPU hungry is a little hard to believe.

What do you guys think? Ever ran into that situation with a good CPU?


----------



## Sainesk

^if you get good FPS in 4v4 with big armies, don't worry about it.

Some custom games can generate so much stuff eventually even an overclocked 3930K would be begging for mercy...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> ^if you get good FPS in 4v4 with big armies, don't worry about it.
> Some custom games can generate so much stuff eventually even an overclocked 3930K would be begging for mercy...


Nexus wars comes to mind. My computer was struggling with just 4 people in the game but there was about 5000 supply on the screen lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> any Left 2 Die pros here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (although this custom seems to have been left to die so few play it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> what order do you do research in to beat it before the 5th night on brutal, I'm pretty sure anything works considering i've come within 5 seconds tons of times with partners who do ridiculous builds but I was wondering if there is an almost perfect research order.
> I was thinking:
> building armor (less damage to buildings = less repairing = more marines early game,)
> medics asap,
> healing upgrade,
> stim, (get around faster and with healing upgrade and a few medics marines can constantly stim)
> then the attack upgrades for marines
> after medics though i'm not sure of the next best thing to spend research points (or whatever it's named) on, maybe reapers. Or tanks, because they're not as fragile and have high range?


I usually get building armor right away and really focus on getting lots of bunkers with scvs always on auto repair nearby. Helps to eventually have a bunker in your mineral line for that jumping zerg and the giant overseer. Also, you can always build a planetary where the main openings are and put bunkers and siege behind them. You get more surface area for autorepair; usually the only way I can beat it.


----------



## Alex132

Just got into Diamond League










And to think I was in struggling in Bronze 4 months ago


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Just got into Diamond League
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to think I was in struggling in Bronze 4 months ago


Congrats







. On EU or AM?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Congrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . On EU or AM?


Diamond EU (Protoss)

Platinum AM (Random)

I think I am going to choose Protoss as my race now after playing Random for a long time, only problem is I love marines xD


----------



## HarrisLam

what is AM? america?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> what is AM? america?


Americas, I think.


----------



## Alex132

yes


----------



## Invisible

I think I posted in here some time ago asking about the GSL schedule for October, but now I'm asking about the game itself









So I've always been a fan of SC2, I watch everything. Day[9], State of the Game, GSL, MLG, streams, everything, But I've never played the game. So I got a friend to give me a guest pass so I could try the actual game out but no matter how much I know, I just can't apply it in game. Struggling to even realize how to spawn roaches cause I can't find out how to get a Roach Warrant out, haha (playing as Zerg over here). I did the tutorials of course, but they were bare bone tutorials, just how to move the mouse and gather minerals.

Is there something out there that tells you exactly how everything is made for each unit? Like what you need to build to go from just a Hatchery to Banelings, or something like that? Just telling me what buildings do what?


----------



## SprayN'Pray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invisible*
> 
> I think I posted in here some time ago asking about the GSL schedule for October, but now I'm asking about the game itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I've always been a fan of SC2, I watch everything. Day[9], State of the Game, GSL, MLG, streams, everything, But I've never played the game. So I got a friend to give me a guest pass so I could try the actual game out but no matter how much I know, I just can't apply it in game. Struggling to even realize how to spawn roaches cause I can't find out how to get a Roach Warrant out, haha (playing as Zerg over here). I did the tutorials of course, but they were bare bone tutorials, just how to move the mouse and gather minerals.
> Is there something out there that tells you exactly how everything is made for each unit? Like what you need to build to go from just a Hatchery to Banelings, or something like that? Just telling me what buildings do what?


Zerg is different on how they produce units. All their units come from larvae that spawn from a hatchery. When you make a structure such as a spawning pool or a roach warren, it unlocks the technology necessary to produce that unit. To produce units as Zerg, select your hatchery, press 's' to select larvae, and select the unit you want.
Terran and Protoss produce units from individual buildings, and Protoss can also warp in units to Pylon energy fields.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invisible*
> 
> I think I posted in here some time ago asking about the GSL schedule for October, but now I'm asking about the game itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I've always been a fan of SC2, I watch everything. Day[9], State of the Game, GSL, MLG, streams, everything, But I've never played the game. So I got a friend to give me a guest pass so I could try the actual game out but no matter how much I know, I just can't apply it in game. Struggling to even realize how to spawn roaches cause I can't find out how to get a Roach Warrant out, haha (playing as Zerg over here). I did the tutorials of course, but they were bare bone tutorials, just how to move the mouse and gather minerals.
> Is there something out there that tells you exactly how everything is made for each unit? Like what you need to build to go from just a Hatchery to Banelings, or something like that? Just telling me what buildings do what?


Liquipedia is amazing. It has tech trees, general strategies, etc. I recommend just browsing the zerg section to get a general idea of what youre doing. There's also a tech tree in the game if you ever get stuck on the fly.

As for not being able to apply what you see; I think that it will start to come naturally once you get the hang of what youre doing. I watch a lot of basketball but it doesn't mean I could outscore LBJ.


----------



## Alex132

Also play against the AI at first (very easy)

Dont think AT ALL about killing your opponent, just get used to your race's characteristics and how to / when to build things and why youre building it.

A LOT of SC2 is about strategy

edit- LOL I have been World Ranked 32 when I was in Platinum xD

32nd best plat in the world (September 2011) xDD


----------



## Invisible

Oh yea, forgot bout Liquid's encyclopedia.

I think a good portion of my knowledge about Zerg was actually skewed though. I thought Zerg's were made directly from the Spawning Pool. But I see that they, and drones as well, as well as Overlords, and actually everything else are made from these little worm things that pop out in 3's in front of the Hatchery. You then select them and turn them into whatever you want, as long as you have the necessary building.

Question as well. Is there any hotkey to select a full group of units? Let's say for example I have 20 speedlings and 10 banelings on screen. They are all bundled together and I want to send all the lings to the left and all the bane's to the right? Can I press like 1 or something to select all individual units?


----------



## Alex132

ctrl + (1-9) will hotkey the selected units


----------



## QuadDamage

I really enjoy playing random, but I won't get pass diamond playing random, when my toss and Terran or plat and my zerg is gold level

Being a Random grandmaster is legit


----------



## darkRyu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> anybody know if the 3 workers max per patch also applies to the "Left 2 Die" custom games? just wondering if I can cut scv production after 3 per patch and spend it elsewhere when playing it...
> 
> I missed "here comes the hammer" achiev by like 5 seconds, *facepalm* thank you 1 missed stim...


2 workers saturate 1 mineral patch.


----------



## Anti!!

Something else I would go ahead and learn while you are fresh is to Ctrl click a unit when you want to select all units of a certain type in your screen view. Then you also need to learn how to deselect units with Shift. Play around with this and use it from now on.


----------



## Invisible

How important is it to get to get Overlords out in the early game? Every build order I'm seeing is saying to start off with like 9 Overlords. I'm a fan of early expansions as well, so I chose this Hatchery First build. Or maybe I'm reading this wrong, not quite sure what these builds mean:

9 Overlord
13/14/15 Hatchery
13/14/15 Spawning Pool
@ 100% Spawning Pool, 2-4 Zerglings

How do I read this?


----------



## Fortunex

The number is your food count when you should be getting that unit/building.

So it says build an overlord when you're at 9/10 supply, build a Hatchery when you're at 13, 14, or 15 out of 18 (because you made the overlord) supply, spawning pool at the same supply, and when your spawning pool is done, make 2-4 zerglings.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> I really enjoy playing random, but I won't get pass diamond playing random, when my toss and Terran or plat and my zerg is gold level
> 
> Being a Random grandmaster is legit


Link to your profile?

Also what are you saying, youre GM random? Diamond Random? Plat Random?


----------



## Alex132

Also is it bad to sometimes bend your strategy based on your income?

For example;

I played a 1v1 (PvZ) where my opponent roach-rushed me. I barely held it off thanks to some micro and then he transitioned into mass roach + double evo chamber upgs + quickish third + lots of infestors.

So after some mid game pressure I realized I had tons more minerals than I wanted, so instead of going for some blink stalkers I went for Chargelots + Immortals + sentries. Which got really destroyed by infestors, luckily I got him to waste energy of mis-fungals etc and then attacked him.

Do you think it would have been better if I just took a 3rd or made more gateways / robo's to get more stalkers / immortals or something else?


----------



## Fortunex

If you're in a pinch, it's usually best to make whatever you can (unless your piece of tech is 10 seconds from popping off or whatever), and do what you need to fix your unbalanced mineral/gas count once you're not about to die.


----------



## Alex132

Just looked at the replay and noticed that it wasnt as bad as I thought


----------



## Invisible

So just played my first game against Very Easy AI of Terran, and well of course, I won, but I still know I did nothing like I should. I didn't spread my creep at all cause I forgot about it, and didn't expand at all outside of my natural. I finished up with 2 queens, enough Overlords for 119 supply I believe, and the rest all Speedlings, Roaches, and Banelings. I also did not scout at all, literally. Mainly because I know whatever I see I won't know what they are building, cause I'm only knowledagable on the building names of Zergs. I know the name of all the units for all races of course, but not the building name, so I won't know exactly what they are doing.

The AI did scout me early with a Hellion and a Marine though, but besides that, once I made my units I just went for an all-in cause I knew I would win and I wasn't happy at how I was playing. I'm trying to find a link that tells what every unit is weak and strong against but no luck so far.

I will say though exactly what build I want to go for. I want to go for a Hatchery First Defensive build, with Brood Lords, Infestors, Banelings/Speedlings, and maybe roaches. I want to go for something that will let me be on the defense for the beginning, and grab an economic advantage early, while building up a massive army, and then right after a successful defense, run right in with all my air units and Banelings and tear everything up in a counter-attack. It's going to be a long time though until I get that good, if I even do, haha.


----------



## HometownHero

I would just pick one build, and stick to it on the ladder. Learn the build inside and out. Day9 really recomends this approach too. It gives you a better understanding of timings, strengths, weaknesses, etc. A good standard build would be something like 9 ovie, 14 pool, 16 hatch, 16 ovie, 16 gas, and then get out queens. Pool first lets you stay defensive and set up spines in case of a bunker rush or cheese.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkRyu*
> 
> 2 workers saturate 1 mineral patch.


2 workers per patch are "optimal saturation" for most high level zerg players (meaning time to expo) however 3 workers per patch is "max saturation" (meaning the max that will mine without wasting time running back and forth)


----------



## gonX

If you're lower than plat, focus on your macro rather than strategies.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX*
> 
> If you're lower than plat, focus on your macro rather than strategies.


This.

Don't even bother to think about micro


----------



## Alex132

Anyone up for some 1v1 practice?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX*
> 
> If you're lower than plat, focus on your macro rather than strategies.


first of all let me tell you i'm only gold, and was only plat even at my prime in the NA server.

But I kind of disagree.

Comes down to how you define the word strategy though. You guys are good so I think you probably give the word a stricter definition.

But in my book, strategies include :

1) How to deal with a 1-1-1 and starport was already done when you scan it?

2) How to deal with a cannon rush as a protoss player if that pylon actually finished before you saw it?

3) How to take care of the good ol' ling bling muta mix of goodness? (it's probably easy for you guys, all I know is that I still have problems countering that to this day)

4) know basic counters to units. Marauders against stalkers and roaches, marines/tanks against zerglings/mutas, vikings against broodlords, ultralisks against every fking thing on the ground, etc.

Now I dont know about NA, but I stayed long enough in Bronze of SEA realm to say that the bronze players THAT KEEP PLAYING(instead of playing like 2 games and have 10 league points total, you know) are not that bad. Some of them are simply stuck.

If I were to make some generalizations, I would say that macro is the only thing important in Bronze, add unit counters to equation in silver, then further add strategy counters to equation in gold and there you have it.

But to who you were replying to, Yes he should only focus on marco since he's an absolute beginner


----------



## yks

1v1?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> first of all let me tell you i'm only gold, and was only plat even at my prime in the NA server.
> But I kind of disagree.
> Comes down to how you define the word strategy though. You guys are good so I think you probably give the word a stricter definition.
> But in my book, strategies include :
> 1) How to deal with a 1-1-1 and starport was already done when you scan it?
> 2) How to deal with a cannon rush as a protoss player if that pylon actually finished before you saw it?
> 3) How to take care of the good ol' ling bling muta mix of goodness? (it's probably easy for you guys, all I know is that I still have problems countering that to this day)
> 4) know basic counters to units. Marauders against stalkers and roaches, marines/tanks against zerglings/mutas, vikings against broodlords, ultralisks against every fking thing on the ground, etc.
> Now I dont know about NA, but I stayed long enough in Bronze of SEA realm to say that the bronze players THAT KEEP PLAYING(instead of playing like 2 games and have 10 league points total, you know) are not that bad. Some of them are simply stuck.
> If I were to make some generalizations, I would say that macro is the only thing important in Bronze, add unit counters to equation in silver, then further add strategy counters to equation in gold and there you have it.
> But to who you were replying to, Yes he should only focus on marco since he's an absolute beginner


Ofc from a pure game knowledge point you can never get enough. I am talking about macro vs micro


----------



## QuadDamage

I just started teaching my brother how to play. He likes terran as they are the easiest to play. He really only knows how to play bio and bio with tanks. But I let him use my friends account who was 40th plat. He got him down ranked to top sliver in the mater of 4 days lol. It's there a easy way to teach him how to use his money better, his early game is near plat but his late game is so bad! He only pumps off of 4 racks and I have gotten a chance to coach him over his shoulder and help him start winning for a change.
My friend who account he uses was kinda of mad but happy he gets to play vs sliver people and winning becomes way easier.

Anyways wanted to share that, come to the overclocked.net chat and add me as friends k








QuadDamage 454


----------



## l337sft

I love feedback <3


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> 3) How to take care of the good ol' ling bling muta mix of goodness? (it's probably easy for you guys, all I know is that I still have problems countering that to this day)
> 4) know basic counters to units. Marauders against stalkers and roaches, marines/tanks against zerglings/mutas, vikings against broodlords, ultralisks against every fking thing on the ground, etc.


3)
As terran? Seige tank + marines into mech
As protoss? More gateways + blink/charge/both + sentries (maybe get colosi or two depending on the ratio of mutas to ground army) also get upgrades fast!
As zerg? Roach + muta. I would actually never really go for banelings in a ZvZ. Always fast expand + roaches and so far I've done really well in them









4)
You shouldn't really worry about things like "if he is going early hellions I should really go for roaches instead of my plan/build to go ling/bling/muta"

You should just stick to your plan and not be an idiot about losing banelings/lings. Block your ramp, maybe make some spine crawlers etc but there is no point in ruining the build you know to try and 'counter' it perfectly.

Now if your opponent goes for lets say a void ray rush, I dont suggest you stick with ling/bling


----------



## Alex132

Also stupid how you dont get 'friend' requests from someone adding your username + unique code

Anyone who wants to add me my profiles are:

Pangolinman - 349 (AM servers)
Fluke132 - 214 (EU servers)


----------



## Alex132

Every single PvP always ends with me losing to stupid forcefeilds.

>4 gate pressure
>nope I have 1 sentry you cant win

>zealots with charge against immortals
>nope I have 1 sentry, you cant win

:II


----------



## Sainesk

*Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty is now $30 for an NA account through Battle.net until the 28th of November.*

don't miss out on this great deal if you don't already have this game...


----------



## Alex132

Ugh played like 13 1v1's

Only won 5 =_=

I should maybe stick to the EU server lol

did have one awesome ZvZ though where I 14 hatch'ed, he rushed with banelings. I lost my main base. Rebuilt in my expansion and powered out roaches with +1 / +1. I managed to hold on for about 15 minutes despite the much lower drone count, even taking a third base at the end









But I couldn't fight back hard enough, once he had mutas out it was gg


----------



## Anti!!

Making a KOTH in the SC2 channel. We will wait for a few min. Join up!!!!! High masters to low gold are in already.


----------



## Heazy

We are doing a King of The Hill game

everyone join on NA server join









go in Channel: Overclock.net


----------



## Twistacles

fun koth !


----------



## Heazy

Sorry I had to bail out early Norton AV strikes again


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heazy*
> 
> Sorry I had to bail out early Norton AV strikes again


Meh, no probs, YKS and I played some fun games. Of course I would losen up when everyone is gone. haha.


----------



## yks

All I did during that KOTH was FFE into whatever I pleased.

FFE:
-> +2 Blink, 7gate
-> Voidrays
-> 8 Zealot Drop
-> +2 DTs (4 of em)
-> +1 Blink. 4gate
-> +1 DT (8 for a 3rd snipe)

I think I'm going to use colossus next time. Make things easier. My mechanics are horrible =[ couldn't multi-task my camera positions.


----------



## poroboszcz

I really don't get FFE and why so many players like it. How is it any different from going AFK for 8 minutes?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I really don't get FFE and why so many players like it. How is it any different from going AFK for 8 minutes?


Lol yeah I really don't like it either. Even on maps where you're 'supposed' to FFE.

I prefer 3 gate expand.


----------



## CravinR1

I like 15 nexus, if they don't immediately attack you then you have enough economy to really build fast and double forge upgrades


----------



## Alex132

Not really sure what build should Protoss do on Tal'darim Alter LE?

I tried FFE, died horribly to a macro zerg.

Sigh I wish there was a race with the mechanics of protoss, the macro of zerg and marines xD


----------



## CravinR1

Toss really has a hard time with zerg due to their mobility. Did you watch the game where Idra held Huk to 3 bases and mineral starved him?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Toss really has a hard time with zerg due to their mobility. Did you watch the game where Idra held Huk to 3 bases and mineral starved him?


That's basically what happened to me, I could NOT expand at all. Even if I tried to move my army with them Zerg just moved in with an attack on my main base. I got starved out :/

I had more upgrades, more supply, I defeated zergs first attack on my main. Move everything (even probes) into his base, he lost everything, but managed to JUST hold on when some roaches came from his 4th base lol and it was gg


----------



## Alex132

Love the shubbery on shakuras plateau with those bush things. I basically just won a ZvT because of that.

Banelings rolled into marines/seigetanks when they were moving and they had just gone past those center shrubs, didnt have vision. Killed most of his army with banelings. Then the roaches and mutas rolled in


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I really don't get FFE and why so many players like it. How is it any different from going AFK for 8 minutes?


Blinker, the way I see it is: the reason why Pro Protoss' use it nowadays, is not to go AFK for 8 minutes, but to _fast-forward_ a couple minutes. Before FFE, it was what? 3/1gate sentry expand? When zergs figured out how to react to it, the benefits of the sentry expand wasn't as comparable to the cons.

With FFE, it's like fast-forwarding a couple minutes and putting pressure on the 3rd Zerg base (with 2 base economy). And to me, that *feels* better than putting pressure on the Natural (with 1.25 base economy and shi.tty Sentry DPS)

idk, pressuring the 3rd with better economy and DPS units feels better than an attack on the natural with lower economy and sentry-esque dps. High risk/High reward, son! But that's just me. When I saw players start FFE'ing on XN/Metal/Shattered, I was like "you can do that?" and apparently, you can. Before I used to do it on TDA/Shak/Antiga only, but now I try to practice it on all maps *vZ.


----------



## Xcrunner

Been looking at getting this game for a while. Couldn't pass up the 50% off in the blizzard store.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Blinker, the way I see it is: the reason why Pro Protoss' use it nowadays, is not to go AFK for 8 minutes, but to _fast-forward_ a couple minutes. Before FFE, it was what? 3/1gate sentry expand? When zergs figured out how to react to it, the benefits of the sentry expand wasn't as comparable to the cons.
> With FFE, it's like fast-forwarding a couple minutes and putting pressure on the 3rd Zerg base (with 2 base economy). And to me, that *feels* better than putting pressure on the Natural (with 1.25 base economy and shi.tty Sentry DPS)
> idk, pressuring the 3rd with better economy and DPS units feels better than an attack on the natural with lower economy and sentry-esque dps. High risk/High reward, son! But that's just me. When I saw players start FFE'ing on XN/Metal/Shattered, I was like "you can do that?" and apparently, you can. Before I used to do it on TDA/Shak/Antiga only, but now I try to practice it on all maps *vZ.


You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.

I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.
> I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.


Leenock vs Naniwa for example? Lol

But!! A scout eliminates all of that.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.
> I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.


I feel the opposite. From the replays I've seen, if a zerg sees 1g/3g expo, they normally take their 3rd around the 11minute mark, if they're not being greedy (but lets assume they're playing safe). So if you plan to make some timing @ the 11-12minute mark to hit the 3rd (like you stated), your unit composition is very limited and lackluster when you open 1g/3g expand. So that's why you have to throw some pressure in the sub-11minute area @ the 2nd, to prevent excess droning; And I just don't like the options you're left with if you open with a gate opener to do that.

I just feel like FFE gives you more timings to hit with better unit compositions, than the typical/predictable sentry-timings when you do a gate opener. When I don't FFE though, I normally do top-ramp 1G-Expo's with my next 2 gates below-ramp. I hate 3gate expo's with all your gates top-ramp, it was super good back in March/April, but the game's evolved since then and zergs know how to respond/abuse that style now.


----------



## Reflux

Just realised why there's barely any OCNers on SC2 for me.

Do I need to buy another copy of the game to play on the NA server? I can't afford that :s

Well, I submitted a ticket on battle.net to see what they have to say about it. Maybe I can weasel myself a free or cheaper copy so I can play with you guys.


----------



## HarrisLam

where you from reflux?


----------



## Alex132

The NA copy of the game is $30 only for now


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> where you from reflux?


Scotland? It says right below to my name. I have an EU copy.

Just played some pretty tragic 3's, probably my fault that we lost but I still enjoyed it.


----------



## Alex132

LOL that was you xDD

Thought you were Rlnds other friend who's played like 700 games >_>

Sorry xD


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> LOL that was you xDD
> Thought you were Rlnds other friend who's played like 700 games >_>
> Sorry xD


No it was me. It's no problem man I know I'm bad.

I want to learn how to play I just don't get enough time to really sink in some good sessions of it. When I do get to play with you guys people just leave and call me bad, it's pretty depressing. Guess that keeps me away from the game too.

Oh well, I have other things to do I suppose.


----------



## Alex132

I didnt call you bad >_>

Just you made waaaay too many gateways off of one base.

You should try some vs AI to get the timings right, or look up some build orders online


----------



## Reflux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I didnt call you bad >_>
> Just you made waaaay too many gateways off of one base.
> You should try some vs AI to get the timings right, or look up some build orders online


I was on 2base when I made 3 extra gates, the second base got taken out by mutas, I even pinged it on the map. I did explain in the chat.

I've played almost 30 AI games on hard and I watch streams whenever I can to watch people's builds. I know I'm bad, you don't need to explain. I'm working on it.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> LOL that was you xDD
> Thought you were Rlnds other friend who's played like 700 games >_>
> Sorry xD
> 
> 
> 
> No it was me. It's no problem man I know I'm bad.
> 
> I want to learn how to play I just don't get enough time to really sink in some good sessions of it. When I do get to play with you guys people just leave and call me bad, it's pretty depressing. Guess that keeps me away from the game too.
> 
> Oh well, I have other things to do I suppose.
Click to expand...

I never left because you were bad! No reason to feel depressed about that! Sorry anyway. :/

I enjoy playing with you!


----------



## Reflux

No problem guys.


----------



## HarrisLam

I thought EU guys get access to NA servers too?

Or maybe I mixed it up.

because my version is SEA and I get to play NA









No offense but I gotta say, at my (noob) level, playing in NA is easier than playing in SEA due to a larger player base.

Theoretically that can't be true cuz no matter how big the population, there should be same %age of noobs right?

Point is, most noobs in SEA should have already quitted by now LOL.
and now i'm kind of used to NA play style, probably could never go back to SEA again.

If you ever get into NA and want some team games though, please hit me up if you see me in channel. I love me some team games, but thats really because I can't handle 1v1s anymore lol


----------



## Sainesk

anyone know if Taiwan/Korea have an official SC2 forum like EU/NA?

edit: yes they do, sweet.

think i'm gonna check out what Korean ladder is like...


----------



## enri95

I just got the game and I was wondering if the MP has server browser or just quick match? Thanks.


----------



## Sainesk

anyone know if SEA is the same region as Taiwan and Korea?


----------



## murderbymodem

Any Zerg players here that could give me advice on holding off early pressure? I got fourth place in the Playhem Gold/Platinum daily tonight. I lost 2-1 against a Protoss who proxy 2gate'd me both of the games he won, I wasn't being risky either, I 14 pool 13 gas in ZvP. Then in the match for third place I got bunker rushed twice and 2-0'd. I never let him actually get the bunkers up, but I lost so many drones holding off the push that I was too far behind to win either game. The first game I went 15 hatch and lost basically all of my drones holding, then the second game I played safer and went 14 pool 14 gas and expo'd around 16 but still lost a bunch of drones. I retaliated with a pretty good bane bust but I was still so behind that I ended up losing it.


----------



## HarrisLam

no its not the same

korea is korean, TW is *probably* in chinese, SEA is english, all different regions


----------



## Wishmaker

I need to find some time to play this!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist*
> 
> Any Zerg players here that could give me advice on holding off early pressure? I got fourth place in the Playhem Gold/Platinum daily tonight. I lost 2-1 against a Protoss who proxy 2gate'd me both of the games he won, I wasn't being risky either, I 14 pool 13 gas in ZvP. Then in the match for third place I got bunker rushed twice and 2-0'd. I never let him actually get the bunkers up, but I lost so many drones holding off the push that I was too far behind to win either game. The first game I went 15 hatch and lost basically all of my drones holding, then the second game I played safer and went 14 pool 14 gas and expo'd around 16 but still lost a bunch of drones. I retaliated with a pretty good bane bust but I was still so behind that I ended up losing it.


Spine crawlers and make an extra queen or two and go straight into roach / baneling.

But never, ever panic.


----------



## Alex132

Does anyone know what it means when your points go far above your world ranking?

Does it mean I am going to be demoted soon, or simply nothing?










edit-

also some epic upgrading in like 20 days:


----------



## HometownHero

^^The only correlations is more points = higher world rank. Doesnt tie into promotion/demotion at all I dont think.

Did we start doing some kind of KoTH?


----------



## Alex132

is there a KOTH going on now?


----------



## holynorth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Spine crawlers and make an extra queen or two and go straight into roach / baneling.
> But never, ever panic.


I would advise never going baneling to stop early pressure. It will work well against all-ins that bring the scvs, but any early pressure with a follow-up and you will be behind. An example would be 2rax pressure into banshee. The gas spent going baneling is crucial when you could have survived with an extra queen, spine, and more zerglings.

The same is true for ZvP. An early pressure consisting of zealots is quite scary, but you can survive. Put down a single spine immediately if you went expo first. I would skip the spine if you went pool first. If you are on one base and the zealots come, they will be slightly ahead of your queen if it was a proxy. Dance around with your 4 zerglings; try and still till the queen. A good protoss player will run straight to the drone line. You will lose a few drones but you can minimize losses by mineral walking the injured drones away. As soon as the queen is out, dance it around the hatchery. Use the zerglings to stall and let the queen do the actual killing. A 14 pool can absolutely demolish a 2 rax proxy.

After the zealots finish doing their damage, immediately expect a stalker. Stalkers can do severe damage to a zerg without ling speed. This is why I advise to NOT go banelings. You need the zergling speed before any banelings. Stalkers will pick off a queen or two, several drones, and most if not all of your zerglings if you do not have zergling speed. If you went roach instead of zergling speed, expect a quick transition to voidray. The protoss will attempt to deny additional bases, (your third at this time) as they try to catch-up. SImply over-produce queens, about 2 extra, and keep them around your natural. Control the watchtowers and see the voidray coming to correctly position your queens.

If you see a forge + voidray build, overproduce queens and lings or you will die. He will be extremely short on sentries so you can get away with a lower count of roaches.


----------



## Sainesk

wow, hero's warp prism + colossus play...









that almost satisfied my thirst for reaver shuttle play, almost...

also rofl at Dreamhack measuring the player's heartbeats... stupidest idea ever?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> wow, hero's warp prism + colossus play...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that almost satisfied my thirst for reaver shuttle play, almost...
> also rofl at Dreamhack measuring the player's heartbeats... stupidest idea ever?


Heartbeat seems pretty gimicky but I am pumped for free vods of every match on Day9's channel. Great production thus far. I believe the finals are held in a 4k seat hockey arena which is pretty cool.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holynorth*
> 
> I would advise never going baneling to stop early pressure. It will work well against all-ins that bring the scvs, but any early pressure with a follow-up and you will be behind. An example would be 2rax pressure into banshee. The gas spent going baneling is crucial when you could have survived with an extra queen, spine, and more zerglings.
> The same is true for ZvP. An early pressure consisting of zealots is quite scary, but you can survive. Put down a single spine immediately if you went expo first. I would skip the spine if you went pool first. If you are on one base and the zealots come, they will be slightly ahead of your queen if it was a proxy. Dance around with your 4 zerglings; try and still till the queen. A good protoss player will run straight to the drone line. You will lose a few drones but you can minimize losses by mineral walking the injured drones away. As soon as the queen is out, dance it around the hatchery. Use the zerglings to stall and let the queen do the actual killing. A 14 pool can absolutely demolish a 2 rax proxy.
> After the zealots finish doing their damage, immediately expect a stalker. Stalkers can do severe damage to a zerg without ling speed. This is why I advise to NOT go banelings. You need the zergling speed before any banelings. Stalkers will pick off a queen or two, several drones, and most if not all of your zerglings if you do not have zergling speed. If you went roach instead of zergling speed, expect a quick transition to voidray. The protoss will attempt to deny additional bases, (your third at this time) as they try to catch-up. SImply over-produce queens, about 2 extra, and keep them around your natural. Control the watchtowers and see the voidray coming to correctly position your queens.
> If you see a forge + voidray build, overproduce queens and lings or you will die. He will be extremely short on sentries so you can get away with a lower count of roaches.


I held off 2 rax proxy with simply 2 spine crawlers and a few early banelings (I went 14 hatch). Then went into mutalisk and roach, basically cutting any baneling production unless I felt necessary. I also threw up an evo chamber and had scouting overlords just outside his base to scout for incoming banshees etc. The roach / muta / baneling / zergling combo worked out really well for me against his tank / marine / medivac combo.


----------



## Alex132

Hmmm just played a PvZ on a map that I normally HATE.

Think I didn't do too badly, although I really should have attacked sooner, I was scared that the Zerg had taken many more bases than he actually did









Alex132 Jugo PvZ.zip 44k .zip file


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hmmm just played a PvZ on a map that I normally HATE.
> Think I didn't do too badly, although I really should have attacked sooner, I was scared that the Zerg had taken many more bases than he actually did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex132 Jugo PvZ.zip 44k .zip file


You didnt do too badly, huh? You had 23 more workers and 40 more supply than him at the 10 minute mark lol. I've never seen a zerg do something so stupid like that but you handled it really well. What made you decide to 3 gate expo rather than forge first when it was tal darim?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You didnt do too badly, huh? You had 23 more workers and 40 more supply than him at the 10 minute mark lol. I've never seen a zerg do something so stupid like that but you handled it really well. What made you decide to 3 gate expo rather than forge first when it was tal darim?


I HATE FFE.

I have gone FFE before on that map and won, but my economy was really messed up with minerals / gas ratio.

Also yeah the Zerg never droned up xD


----------



## Anti!!

/////////facepalm


----------



## yks

Lets do some more KOTH's soon!


----------



## Alex132

Yes!


----------



## HarrisLam

where did everybody go?


----------



## Alex132

INTO THE NIGHT!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> where did everybody go?


lurking


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Lets do some more KOTH's soon!


I'm all for more KoTH's.

My finals end a week from Saturday. I'll be on way too much afterwards.


----------



## Sainesk

My P early game is horrible, dunno if I can make it to Diamond random unless I improve on that. I mainly do teching where even a small bit of pressure could really hurt or cannon expand which can be abused if I don't place them in perfect places.


----------



## Alex132

3 Gate expand is a really safe build as protoss


----------



## poroboszcz

You guys should stream these KOTHs or at least upload replay packs.


----------



## HometownHero

We need to have them first. I think I've only really heard of one recently.


----------



## Reflux

Any more EU players in this thread? Doesn't seem to be many of us, I'd like to do some more team games at some point.

Add me. Reflux:347 I'm ubernoob but I enjoy playing, seems to be enough for you guys


----------



## Sainesk

how about we start a weekly or bi-weekly OCN SC2 Night?
I'm not sure if KOTH has a player cap, but if it does i'm sure we can figure something out.

It'll probably fail a few times from lack of people but i'm sure we could eventually get something good going like we had a while back.

We have to figure out what days and times would be best for everyone, my guess would be Friday evenings, or some time on Saturdays/Sundays.

Or we can be crazy, and do multiple nights!


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> 3 Gate expand is a really safe build as protoss


It all depends on what the opponent's doing, what map you're on and what position the two are. Eg on some maps you can only be safe and long term focused as well by three gate pressure expand; Where other maps and positions you can only do forge FE to have an even footing in the metagame.


----------



## HarrisLam

i would love to play with you reflux but im in SEA/NA servers only.....I only play team games now...

Often find these guys on the channel too, but all of them are like masters makes me not even wanna ask them to team up


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reflux*
> 
> Any more EU players in this thread? Doesn't seem to be many of us, I'd like to do some more team games at some point.
> Add me. Reflux:347 I'm ubernoob but I enjoy playing, seems to be enough for you guys


I can play with you. I'm in overclock.net channel every time I'm online even though it's always empty.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> how about we start a weekly or bi-weekly OCN SC2 Night?
> I'm not sure if KOTH has a player cap, but if it does i'm sure we can figure something out.
> It'll probably fail a few times from lack of people but i'm sure we could eventually get something good going like we had a while back.
> We have to figure out what days and times would be best for everyone, my guess would be Friday evenings, or some time on Saturdays/Sundays.
> Or we can be crazy, and do multiple nights!


Should try multiple days/times one week and pick whichever has the most people. Any day on the weekend gets my vote. Are there more EST or PST people here for AM?


----------



## fashric

So I've just switched to using grid hotkeys, my god I can't believe I've wasted so much time using and struggling with the default method. anyone who isn't using grid switch now! P


----------



## Heazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> So I've just switched to using grid hotkeys, my god I can't believe I've wasted so much time using and struggling with the default method. anyone who isn't using grid switch now! P


I'm in Masters and I still don't know how to use GRID or anything other than the defaults


----------



## fashric

It probably wont improve your play a huge amount then but for me its just so much more comfortable to have the keys in a confined area. I have short fingers


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> So I've just switched to using grid hotkeys, my god I can't believe I've wasted so much time using and struggling with the default method. anyone who isn't using grid switch now! P


Grid?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heazy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> So I've just switched to using grid hotkeys, my god I can't believe I've wasted so much time using and struggling with the default method. anyone who isn't using grid switch now! P
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Masters and I still don't know how to use GRID or anything other than the defaults
Click to expand...

Like 95% of the pro gamers use the stock settings.

Just change Guardian Shield hotkey from G to X. G is WAY too close to F, one slip up has cost me a game before :/


----------



## fashric

Doesn't really matter what other people use tbh its all personal preference. i just find grid way more natural than standard. I would think top players use customised set ups anyway.

This is grid


----------



## skwannabe

Been playing alot of 4s these days and got up to top 5 on plat. I never really liked broodwar but sc2 got my interest somehow. Whenever I play 4s, my teammates just high tech to stargate, cols, or expand. So if the other team attack around 7 to 10 min, I'm the only one who actually has units to fight them off. I'm a protoss player and whenever my teammate high tech, I just 4 gate to get mass units. Besides playing with people I know, is there anything else I can do? Anyone want to give me some tips for 1v1? I played 2s, 3s, and 4s, but when it comes to 1v1 I'm totally lost. How can I share some of my replays?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Doesn't really matter what other people use tbh its all personal preference. i just find grid way more natural than standard. I would think top players use customised set ups anyway.
> This is grid


Yeah I use custom keys, too used to my custom keys


----------



## fashric

Ye its all about familiarity I wouldn't suggest anyone change if they perfectly comfortable with what they have. SC2 is pretty much my first RTS and the first time I've ever used hotkeys in a game. I'm mainly an fps player so having all the hotkeys situated around wasd feels very familiar already. I just got a bit excited about not feeling like my fingers are individually ******ed when playing so thought I would post it


----------



## Alex132

I am used to the normal hotkeys for all the races


----------



## darkRyu

Hey add me. Darkryu-608
Let me know when you guys will play the weekly games.
Im in


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I am used to the normal hotkeys for all the races


Only things I've ever changed are my bound camera keys.


----------



## HarrisLam

come on guys, do a team game night along with that


----------



## Mwarren

I'd be down for teams. I don't play 1v1 anymore, its too lonely/loner playing 1v1 and teams is a lot more fun in my opinion.


----------



## HarrisLam

thats cool~

What's your skill level though? I'm mostly gold - plat for 3v3 and 4v4, I'm gold now and just never played enough games to guarantee myself a spot in plat. If you're masters, I won't be able to match you at all, unless you don't mind









I'm HarrisLam(rickylonely) on NA server. Don't know the 3 digit number and I can't check now. I'll be on channel mostly during nights of weekends


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> thats cool~
> What's your skill level though? I'm mostly gold - plat for 3v3 and 4v4, I'm gold now and just never played enough games to guarantee myself a spot in plat. If you're masters, I won't be able to match you at all, unless you don't mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm HarrisLam(rickylonely) on NA server. Don't know the 3 digit number and I can't check now. I'll be on channel mostly during nights of weekends


Add me if you want, I'm gold 1v1 and plat 2v2 and 3v3

NA server
Cravin
911


----------



## Sainesk

how about 6-7pm EST tomorrow - Saturday, for our first OCN get-together (in a while)? we can start at 6 or 7, or people can start joining the chat at 6 and the actual KOTH and stuff could start at 7 depending on what everyone wants. Or if it's not a good time for a lot of people we could do it on a different day/time.


----------



## mylilpony

i'm down for koth . im usually in there but dota2 and arkham have been taking up most of my time recently


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> how about 6-7pm EST tomorrow - Saturday, for our first OCN get-together (in a while)? we can start at 6 or 7, or people can start joining the chat at 6 and the actual KOTH and stuff could start at 7 depending on what everyone wants.


----------



## Alex132

I just joined the channel


----------



## 13321G4

NA/AM servers:/

Been in the EU channel for the past few hours...


----------



## Alex132

EU has like no OCN ppl in it


----------



## Anti!!

KOTH FTW! Just choose a night.


----------



## Sainesk

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors7/vod/66643


----------



## MUSHROOMBARON

just play the korean servers for practice get owned a lot transfer to local regional server and start the massacre!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors7/vod/66643


wow.

Do you have to pay for those too?


----------



## connectwise

I did after seeing the first game. I wasn't going to pay for gsl this season but the final games were crazy good.


----------



## l337sft

I just had so much fun with this game, i lose but it was still a crazy back and forth game. Someone please watch and critisize my gameplay









http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15921


----------



## babycorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> wow.
> Do you have to pay for those too?


I don't think you have to pay to watch it, you just end up watching it at 320p or something... just make an account









@Sainesk

that was me watching Hero vs Puma today D:


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft*
> 
> I just had so much fun with this game, i lose but it was still a crazy back and forth game. Someone please watch and critisize my gameplay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15921


Obviously from your APM and micro you're a much better player than me

BUT, making that many zealots vs archons/colossus was crazy. You'd been better off with blink stalkers + immortals (and your own colossus)


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babycorn*
> 
> I don't think you have to pay to watch it, you just end up watching it at 320p or something... just make an account
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Sainesk
> that was me watching Hero vs Puma today D:


If you just want to watch the first game in low qual, it's free. If you want to watch the games after that, in any resolution, you need to pay. I did after watching the first game. The games were that good. Now I'm going backwards watching Vods of good games too, in the Nov GSL.


----------



## HometownHero

I'm glad that TvP isnt hard for just me.


----------



## Anti!!

@ conncetwise, and babycorn

Cool thx.

@ hometown hero

Yea, ZvT is my absolute hero!

I used to rock zvp also, but the upgrades have run over me. I need to look at my mechanics again.


----------



## l337sft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Obviously from your APM and micro you're a much better player than me
> BUT, making that many zealots vs archons/colossus was crazy. You'd been better off with blink stalkers + immortals (and your own colossus)


Thanks dood







, what league are you in, cause i dont think i belong in silver lol.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm gold 1v1, got my brothers account placed platinum but tanked it cause he can't even play bronze and win.

I would've thought you were higher cause your apm was high (forgot how high)

With some better decision making in unit composition you'll be tough to beat


----------



## l337sft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm gold 1v1, got my brothers account placed platinum but tanked it cause he can't even play bronze and win.
> I would've thought you were higher cause your apm was high (forgot how high)
> With some better decision making in unit composition you'll be tough to beat


Nice, thanks dude, i practice when i can, makes me feel mad good haha


----------



## yks

koth, gogogogo


----------



## Twistacles

ungh I need a new tvt build. Im losing to a lot of weird ****.

6-10 today =/

tvp on shattered temple is so stupid. and that antigua map where the middle is like seperated? how the hell do I get a good concave there


----------



## BountyHead

Turtle and go mech bf hellion drops to keep opponent in his base. Im pretty bad @ TvT ( gold random here) but this is my go to if you can get up to 3 base and defend your expos and watch for drops once you max out you can really start to apply lots of pressure


----------



## HarrisLam

I agree that TvT is all about bugging the F out of your opponent

and thats why I never win TvTs


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I agree that TvT is all about bugging the F out of your opponent
> and thats why I never win TvTs


Not many people like mirror matches. I used to be good at PvP, now I can barely win even 1. I used to suck ZvZ, now I can take the most stupid risks, lose many more drones / buidlings / etc and still come out on top.


----------



## 13321G4

After months of training, I have finally managed to achieve my goal: Promoted to Silver League!



















new avvy tiem!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After months of training, I have finally managed to achieve my goal: Promoted to Silver League!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new avvy tiem!


Rank in Silver?


----------



## 13321G4

At placement 1 but dropped to 4 at next log in :/

I felt so cool going from Rank 1 Bronze to Rank 1 silver. Too bad it didn't last







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> At placement 1 but dropped to 4 at next log in :/
> I felt so cool going from Rank 1 Bronze to Rank 1 silver. Too bad it didn't last
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Just keep winning and you will be gold in no time.









My goal always raises Haha. I was gold and wanted plat. Then was plat and wanted diamond. Now im diamond and want masters but just don't have enough time.

Congrats


----------



## CravinR1

Where do you get the league avatars from?


----------



## onoz

I got my avatar from him as well







I'll leave the link here, *but give all the credit to RlndVt*
Quote:


> http://galeria.starcraft2.hu/thumbnails.php?album=141


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Not many people like mirror matches. I used to be good at PvP, now I can barely win even 1. I used to suck ZvZ, now I can take the most stupid risks, lose many more drones / buidlings / etc and still come out on top.


though it depends, cuz the 3 mirror matches are different

I hate harasses, and I cannot do it well, and I'm not good at tanks. Those are the reasons i absolutely suck at TvT.

like how do you even fight the tank+viking combo anyway


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> though it depends, cuz the 3 mirror matches are different
> I hate harasses, and I cannot do it well, and I'm not good at tanks. Those are the reasons i absolutely suck at TvT.
> like how do you even fight the tank+viking combo anyway


I hate harass, but Viking + tank combo is amazing in TvT. I LOVE those macro games


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> I got my avatar from him as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll leave the link here, *but give all the credit to RlndVt*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> http://galeria.starcraft2.hu/thumbnails.php?album=141
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.

As for TvT, I personally love just pure marine/tank/medivac. It allows you to out-manoeuver a pure meching player. If you catch him unsieged, stimmed marines completely slaughter tanks. It also let's you drop everywhere much better since you can go for 3/3 bio.

Pure vike/tank is too vulnerable and immobile, imo.


----------



## Du-z

hey guys,

i was wondering if i could get some help. i have been really struggling to to get into silver and i have been trying really hard, watching replays etc

could someone have a look at this replay and let me know what went wrong

http://du-z.com/files/games/Abyssal Caverns.SC2Replay

a few things i have noticed in that particular replay, the warp gate harass didn't get nearly as many SCVs as i would of liked as the player reacted much faster than i expected, i then expected most of his forces to be at the back of the base so i tried to push the front but most of his army was already there so it decimated my army.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Du-z*
> 
> hey guys,
> 
> i was wondering if i could get some help. i have been really struggling to to get into silver and i have been trying really hard, watching replays etc
> 
> could someone have a look at this replay and let me know what went wrong
> 
> http://du-z.com/files/games/Abyssal Caverns.SC2Replay
> 
> a few things i have noticed in that particular replay, the warp gate harass didn't get nearly as many SCVs as i would of liked as the player reacted much faster than i expected, i then expected most of his forces to be at the back of the base so i tried to push the front but most of his army was already there so it decimated my army.


Error 404?


----------



## fashric

His link got broken when he posted it "http://du-z.com/files/games/Abyssal Caverns.SC2Replay" copy and paste the whole thing minus the quotation marks, must be a bug in the forum.


----------



## Alex132

Its the space in the link


----------



## Alex132

You really need to improve on your macro


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You really need to improve on your macro


As a bronze player he ma not even know what Macro is.

Also you need to beat silver at least 50% of the time to get promoted, and it takes forever to get promoted from bronze. I'm gold/plat and was playing my bro's bronze account. I was beating bronze 100%, silver 100%, and now play and beat gold regularly and took me alot of games to get him promoted to silver.

@Du-Z

After your 9 pylon finishes its common to use your first chrono on your next 2-3 probes

You droped another pylon at 18/26 supply, this was way early and could've been a earlier gate. Then you were supply blocked at 34/34 for a long time

When you were hitting his front you gave hm alot of free hits on your stalkers, if you had an obs you could've at least stood back and picked off the front buildings.

You stopped making units except for colossus after your push failed, and you ran your army into his rine/rauders instead of attacking ?


----------



## 13321G4

I vote probe production. Untill you know *EXACTLY* what you are doing constantly, really constantly, build probes.

Oh, and more hot-keys will simplify your life.


----------



## Fortunex

Just work on keeping your gates and nexus (nexi) constantly producing units. You can get to plat by just outmacroing your opponent and attack-moving into his base, no real strategy needed.

That game in particular you tried to heavily tech up and had no idea he was pushing, and he caught you with your pants down. You often had your warpgates with units ready to warp in, but never warped in.


----------



## Du-z

thanks guys!


----------



## Sainesk

I feel so evil, I made a single reaper in a game, stuck it in a bunker, 14 kills without even microing...


----------



## dioxholster

how to build troops fast for terran, everyone rushes at me and i get so owned.


----------



## Sainesk

after that Leenock vs jjakji game I started backwards mining every time I can lol...

does anyone know how much less income placing a CC/Hatch/Nexus behind the mineral line gets instead of the usual place assuming you're not just mining the center minerals with a few mules/workers but all of them?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I feel so evil, I made a single reaper in a game, stuck it in a bunker, 14 kills without even microing...


I'm starting to realize this is happening like every game i'm T, although whether I use a bunker too depends on if they fast expand etc, reapers are awesome lol


----------



## CravinR1

I hate the way the game looks in your screen shot, I play on extreme with much lower hardware than you


----------



## Fortunex

I play on medium, it just feels smoother to me, even though I'm at 70+ FPS on extreme.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> how to build troops fast for terran, everyone rushes at me and i get so owned.


Make a bunker if you cant produce enough. Wall off, scout for a rush. Make more buildings?

What's your b/o


----------



## HometownHero

Done with finals, will be on ALOT tomorrow and through the rest of Dec-Jan...


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I hate the way the game looks in your screen shot, I play on extreme with much lower hardware than you


I just find it less distracting on low sorry







i'll make an extreme version next time just for you hehe


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I hate the way the game looks in your screen shot, I play on extreme with much lower hardware than you


This


----------



## Twistacles

I much prefer the game on low aswell, much less distracting


----------



## 13321G4

I can't spot observers on low. On high detail they are much easier to spot!

And it looks better <3


----------



## Alex132

soooooooo


----------



## HometownHero

KoTH tonight or tomorrow??


----------



## Alex132

Tomorrow, feeling dead today x...x


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> KoTH tonight or tomorrow??


Once finals week is over everything will be poppin again.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Once finals week is over everything will be poppin again.


You still in finals mode? I feel for you. I just ended them myself.

Rough Saturday night Alex?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Once finals week is over everything will be poppin again.
> 
> 
> 
> You still in finals mode? I feel for you. I just ended them myself.
> 
> Rough Saturday night Alex?
Click to expand...

Nah well I woke up at 7am, then was supposed to go to bed at like 12-1am, but a friend of mine started a livestream of him drawing as I was about to go to bed.... 7 and a half hours later at 8am I finally headed off to bed XD

So kinda tired today


----------



## Alex132

Do most of you know your strong / weak points in SC2?

I know my strong point would be decision making or staying calm and Protoss/Zerg Macro & early game, but my weak points would be playing as Terran in 1v1, not scouting enough, messing up on my timings.

Well, that's my opinion, so it probably isn't going to be correct lol


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Do most of you know your weak points in SC2?


playing random

+

addiction to achievements


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Do most of you know your strong / weak points in SC2?


Strong Point: Being too damn good.

Weak Point: Not playing enough to make use of my awesomeness.


----------



## Anti!!

Strong point Zerg macro and decent apm.

Weak point horrid decision making.

On another note I painted my house all weekend and have to finish up today. Anyway we can do the Koth Tuesday night?


----------



## HometownHero

I'll be on all week stealing ladder points. Tuesday works. I'll be intermittently throughout the day today if anyone wants to play too.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I'll be on all week stealing ladder points. Tuesday works. I'll be intermittently throughout the day today if anyone wants to play too.


We'll play again sooon!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> We'll play again sooon!


Oh, we shall, and no macro ten pools this time, I promise. Haha


----------



## Nethermir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> We'll play again sooon!


not sc2 related but nice avatar, 5cm moved me to tears lol.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Oh, we shall, and no macro ten pools this time, I promise. Haha


Maybe you'll actually beat me this time in a real game ;] jkjk
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> not sc2 related but nice avatar, 5cm moved me to tears lol.


ya, me too! =[=[=[


----------



## Twistacles

Weak points?

Horrible decision making, macro, micro, mechanics, map awareness...

Only strong point is minimap usage


----------



## connectwise

Okay? Todays blizzard cup games on gom were crazy? Leenock defends a two rax with a hatch first, gas second, pool first opening, not to mention leenock vs neastea's crazy game, mamaship in a pvz and more. And now we have a three way tie for first so another set of games have to be played to decide the winner.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Okay? Todays blizzard cup games on gom were crazy? Leenock defends a two rax with a hatch first, gas second, pool first opening, not to mention leenock vs neastea's crazy game, mamaship in a pvz and more. And now we have a three way tie for first so another set of games have to be played to decide the winner.


Erm.. Spoiler alert!? lol

May we have links?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Maybe you'll actually beat me this time in a real game ;] jkjk


<3
I might not. I still haven't played much since you and I played last. 1v1 that is.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Okay? Todays blizzard cup games on gom were crazy? Leenock defends a two rax with a hatch first, gas second, pool first opening, not to mention leenock vs neastea's crazy game, mamaship in a pvz and more. And now we have a three way tie for first so another set of games have to be played to decide the winner.


Naniwa v Nestea










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I looked past Naniwa's general bm because he really is an extremely talented player, but at this point I am a little tired of his antics. He needs to grow up.



Edit: Mouse is on the fritz. Any suggestions for a new mouse?


----------



## Sainesk

Did you like your mouse? Any chance of RMAing it? (worth a shot trying even if it no longer has a warranty if you liked it...)

What grip do you use?

I'm mainly a palm, and I personally love my G500 with it's weight customizability, but the G400 is probably a better option if you don't need that (better sensor and usually costs less). Find it a well rounded mouse for micro/macro.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Naniwa v Nestea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I looked past Naniwa's general bm because he really is an extremely talented player, but at this point I am a little tired of his antics. He needs to grow up.
> 
> 
> Edit: Mouse is on the fritz. Any suggestions for a new mouse?


Razer Death Adder BE


----------



## HometownHero

Its a Mamba mouse and I did like it. I never really had any lag problems considering its wireless but its not very tactile and I theres quite a bit of give before you actually click. Also, I use a claw grip and I feel like its more of a palm mouse.

The deathadder is the same as the Mamba, just wired?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Razer Death Adder BE


+1 for Deathadder


----------



## skwannabe

How can I upload a replay?


----------



## CravinR1

I entered, and won, a Bronze/Silver Tournament last night with my bro's account.

I'm gold on my main so not much of a smurf. Though I absolutely rolled the players.

BO1 - PvP Korean 4 gate
BO3 - PvP Korean 4 gate x 2
BO3 - PvZ Nexus first to 6 gate with +1, then a 1 gate FE fake (canceled nexus and dropped 3 more gates for a total of 4)

http://www.twitch.tv/pmsh2ostarcraft/b/302451884

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skwannabe*
> 
> How can I upload a replay?


Just zip the replay and attach it to your post


----------



## Alex132

Cravin, whats your normal race?

also we should totally have a ZvZ :3


----------



## CravinR1

Protoss.

ZvZ I suck









PvZ with my build I stole from Whitera is pretty good with a +1 timing push


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Protoss.
> ZvZ I suck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PvZ with my build I stole from Whitera is pretty good with a +1 timing push


I LOVE ZvZ, hate PvP.


----------



## CravinR1

I was rolling terrran with my 15 nexus, now doesn't seem to be effective anymore









I was having a hard time with zerg, but with my timing attack i've had good luck vs them. I just seem to swing back and forth

PvP is annoying, but the 9 pylon, 10 gate into 4 gate zealots works most the time


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Razer Death Adder BE


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I was rolling terrran with my 15 nexus, now doesn't seem to be effective anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was having a hard time with zerg, but with my timing attack i've had good luck vs them. I just seem to swing back and forth
> PvP is annoying, but the 9 pylon, 10 gate into 4 gate zealots works most the time


It's important to note that build orders for every race sometimes (imo much of the time) depends on map and positions. Naniwa though is trying to do forge fe vs zerg on every map, which is good to see. I used to love doing it and holding it fine vs one base zerg all in or one and a half base roach aggression. But, I found depending on positions (like old, close pos on met), if your macro abilities are the same, you'd get over powered just because of the map. So instead gate aggression expands opening on some position/maps have been just working great. One strat I perfected in PvZ back when I used to play was canon in zerg on one base followed by 5 gate + 1 weapon timing. Never lost vs zerg with that against diamond and low to mid master level zerg.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Razer Death Adder BE


That's a good mouse until the button decides to act on its own and double clicks when you wanted single. Fixable via mod.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> <3
> I might not. I still haven't played much since you and I played last. 1v1 that is.


don't worry, i've only played like 3 games since that day. jediwin hates me noww =[


----------



## Sainesk

so are we doing that KOTH tonight?


----------



## Alex132

not sure


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> not sure


Not with that attitude







. How about in an hour or so?


----------



## Alex132

okay


----------



## yks

On


----------



## yks

played 4 games of KOTH so far. still got room for lots of people. holla!


----------



## Anti!!

RAGGGGGEEE.

Hence the name RaGingNyDus...

YKS you devil.

Oh by the way. My RAZER lachesis in my sig rig and a RAZER Sphex is by far the best combo I have ever used.

Even better than my copperhead or my bros death adder. In my opinion though.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> RAGGGGGEEE.
> Hence the name RaGingNyDus...
> YKS you devil.
> Oh by the way. My RAZER lachesis in my sig rig and a RAZER Sphex is by far the best combo I have ever used.
> Even better than my copperhead or my bros death adder. In my opinion though.


I will remain the KING of KOTH. =p

GGs tonight Calm, Narco, Nydus. About 15 games played today. You other people missed out!


----------



## mylilpony

Damn didn't get online until late today, oh well. Only ppl ever in OCN channel never seem to want to play hah

Also...

http://myeg.net/team/prepare-yourselves-idra-is-back-in-code-s/


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> Damn didn't get online until late today, oh well. Only ppl ever in OCN channel never seem to want to play hah
> Also...
> http://myeg.net/team/prepare-yourselves-idra-is-back-in-code-s/


cool beans!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> I will remain the KING of KOTH. =p
> GGs tonight Calm, Narco, Nydus. About 15 games played today. You other people missed out!


Yeah, that was a good KoTH. Especially Calm's rine-BC build







.

Next time we need to set the date a little more in advance. I love the every Tuesday idea, but that's just what works for me.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, that was a good KoTH. Especially Calm's rine-BC build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Next time we need to set the date a little more in advance. I love the every Tuesday idea, but that's just what works for me.


Yea, advance might help







Next Tuesday good for everyone?

also, we must all train like the Koreans now to dethrone yks


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yea, advance might help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next Tuesday good for everyone?
> also, we must all train like the Koreans now to dethrone yks


Well unless he learns a new build by next Tuesday we know what opener he'll use


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Well unless he learns a new build by next Tuesday we know what opener he'll use


boss cannon rush into mass cannons! oh wait I really should pay more attention...









I really like that cheese... if anybody doesn't already know it:
Quote:


> Hidden cannon rushes suck. They are easily defended if scouted, and almost everyone scouts for them once they see your forge. They often require more resources, cannons, and time. The BOSS cannon rush is in your face. It screams "I don't care what you do, or that you see this, you will watch my cannons go up and kill you." It is the epitome of manly cheese, almost as manly as making gates right next to someone's nexus.
> 
> Do not underestimate the crippling psychological blow that the BOSS cannon rush deals. It's one thing to die to cannons you don't scout, it's another thing to die to cannons warping in while your units sit helpless and their probe laughs in his comfortable walled off cave.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228253


----------



## Reflux




----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Well unless he learns a new build by next Tuesday we know what opener he'll use


Lawlz!! haha. He was just practicing it is all. He knows more than that.

Early Tuesdays are perfect for me.

@ Reflux,

Ahhhhh, when fungals actually lasted eight seconds. lol


----------



## Sainesk

whats this Naniwa losing his Code S spot i'm hearing about, anyone know what he did exactly?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yea, advance might help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next Tuesday good for everyone?
> also, we must all train like the Koreans now to dethrone yks


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Well unless he learns a new build by next Tuesday we know what opener he'll use


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lawlz!! haha. He was just practicing it is all. He knows more than that.
> Early Tuesdays are perfect for me.


How early on Tuesdays? Some people are West coast, some be East coast. Noon east coast be like 9AM for me, T_T

And yeah, I still got kinks to work out on the two builds. I'm pretty confident in my FFE, though, I'm still winging the order after I start +1 (I just don't know how I should approach it). My 1g-Expand is still terrible though. I'll type yall the build next time we get in chat. So I was just practicing refining it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> whats this Naniwa losing his Code S spot i'm hearing about, anyone know what he did exactly?


What happened: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295038 ; GOM's announcement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033


----------



## Anti!!

I can't do it early early. I mean like 5:30 central standard time.


----------



## onoz

Finished finals yesterday morning. Got home. Played 4 games.

GET ON MY LEVEL!!!


----------



## yks

Got unlazy today and instead of just winging the build and playing off instinct (from the streams ive seen), I analyzed and tweaked my FFE +2 Blink build to be 1 minute faster.

I needa practice it legitly now, get on Nydus/Zergs.


----------



## Anti!!

Hahaha tomorrow evening sir.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> Finished finals yesterday morning. Got home. Played 4 games.
> GET ON MY LEVEL!!!


Get on his level!! Ahhhh!!!!


----------



## HometownHero

Anyone up for some practice?


----------



## CravinR1

If you're still want practice from a gold player:

Cravin
911

Just add me to skype:

cravin.r1


----------



## mylilpony

damn yks just saw the replay on tal darim, i shouldve droned more that time hah. was fun


----------



## Alex132

Wow I sucked so much tonight :/
4am SC2 aint good for me

Pango = me


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hahaha tomorrow evening sir.
> 
> Get on his level!! Ahhhh!!!!


Where were you son? played about 8 games of KOTH tonight. 6-0, still KING.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> damn yks just saw the replay on tal darim, i shouldve droned more that time hah. was fun


Are you Sam? If you are, I was so happy when I cancelled your 3rd and DT'd ur 2nd. Gotta watch that replay soon, but the window said you made 103 drones that game, T_T did i really harrass that much?

GGs Sam, Narco, Pango, Calm.


----------



## Sainesk

36 probes RIP to nukes









now if only i'd have gotten a 3rd to land on your army... that or not played so horribly









I blame the guy who said I cut scvs







, ruined my 2 base all-in, yea, that's what I meant to do, totally, I swear...


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Where were you son? played about 8 games of KOTH tonight. 6-0, still KING.
> Are you Sam? If you are, I was so happy when I cancelled your 3rd and DT'd ur 2nd. Gotta watch that replay soon, but the window said you made 103 drones that game, T_T did i really harrass that much?
> GGs Sam, Narco, Pango, Calm.


yeah i didn't have more than 50-60 at a time.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> yeah i didn't have more than 50-60 at a time.


Yeah, I saw that. AND your hidden expansion. so sneaky.

i felt as if your unit composition was weird tooo. just saying.


----------



## connectwise

What happened to the november code a gsl? Boxer played MKP last in round 24 then gom just rolled into wcc and blizzard cup.


----------



## Anti!!

I master reset my droidX and my blizz authent. is gone. Got a new one but its not the same serial and I'm in the process with blizzard trying to get my old one removed. XP

I even had to send a copy of my driver license to prove it was me....


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> What happened to the november code a gsl? Boxer played MKP last in round 24 then gom just rolled into wcc and blizzard cup.












No more Code A after Ro24


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Yeah, I saw that. AND your hidden expansion. so sneaky.
> i felt as if your unit composition was weird tooo. just saying.


yeah intended to have lings runby into bases but my play got erally sloppy. also not enough drones = excess gas = really hurt. shouldve just gone up to hivetech faster


----------



## poroboszcz

Release the replay pack!


----------



## yks

I'm sure you dont want to see us scrubbing it up, Blinker.


----------



## HometownHero

Yeah.... some of our play isnt pretty...


----------



## Alex132

This would be a good time to have a KOTH, because it's not like 4am for me xD


----------



## Anti!!

sorry. Im at work.


----------



## connectwise

Shouldn't have bought GSL this season. Got ripped off, of gsl code a final games compared to previous seasons...

Why did the leenock jjakji games have to be so good.


----------



## yks

The skill level of SC2 is rising so much. DRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! MMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> The skill level of SC2 is rising so much. DRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! MMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Sweet. I noticed that lately. Im loving how much closer to BW days its getting.


----------



## connectwise

Who won the blizzard cup?


----------



## Benladesh

I got the game on sale 3 weeks ago, a friend in masters has been showing me the way. I just reached 600 points today, (119 wins). I had a pretty bad loss streak for a while but I've really improved and I keep improving









I'm going on vacation for 3 weeks where I won't really be able to play. I figured I've only played for 3 weeks, I'll come into a new ladder fresh and ready to start up (not from scratch). I'm bronze but getting matched up against silver a lot. I figure that next season I'll be able to get into silver real quick.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3215878/1/madmax/

http://sc2ranks.com/us/3215878/madmax


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I got the game on sale 3 weeks ago, a friend in masters has been showing me the way. I just reached 600 points today, (119 wins). I had a pretty bad loss streak for a while but I've really improved and I keep improving
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going on vacation for 3 weeks where I won't really be able to play. I figured I've only played for 3 weeks, I'll come into a new ladder fresh and ready to start up (not from scratch). I'm bronze but getting matched up against silver a lot. I figure that next season I'll be able to get into silver real quick.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3215878/1/madmax/
> http://sc2ranks.com/us/3215878/madmax


COngrats. Do I have to have a profile made to be on that ranking list?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> COngrats. Do I have to have a profile made to be on that ranking list?


No, youre automatically added. I believe there is an OCN list of people who play on sc2ranks.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> COngrats. Do I have to have a profile made to be on that ranking list?


http://sc2ranks.com/us/1033516/RaGingNyDus

here you go









I just read the first post properly.
The OCN list is here:

http://sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overclock-net-s-division/

I would like to be added to it, i don't know if that's possible. Is OP still around?
Also once i get back from vaca I plan on streamng my way up the ladder (internet update) so if this could be added to op









http://www.twitch.tv/benladesh


----------



## Alex132

Rank #17 and #27 on OCN


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I would like to be added to it, i don't know if that's possible. Is OP still around?
> 
> Also once i get back from vaca I plan on streamng my way up the ladder (internet update) so if this could be added to op
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/benladesh


I added you but anyone can add themselves by going to "Manage Characters", adding their battle.net profile URL (for example mine: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2396770/1/CalmStorm/) to the box under the yellow text and submitting









I added your stream to the OP list of streams.


----------



## Benladesh

Thanks for the info. I must have missed the part where I could add myself.


----------



## Sainesk

bronze with league lock is weird, facing top 8 diamonds every now and then lols...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Rank #17 and #27 on OCN


Oh look im rank twenty now. Cool. Yks is one lower. Oops!! Lol. Good thing league means little for us none leaguers.


----------



## HometownHero

Be on in about 2 hours or so if anyone is up for some practice.


----------



## Sainesk

yay beat a 3 rax all-in with the race I can't play (P)...

how you like my FFs Mr. SCVs?









and whoa, got matched against and beat a diamond zerg in ZvZ...


----------



## CravinR1

Here are the final 2 games from the tourney last week

i've entered it again tonight, probably go zerg this time

I was the Protoss (Kingison)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4sYlMHr_Lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWqGVGZHp28


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Here are the final 2 games from the tourney last week
> i've entered it again tonight, probably go zerg this time
> I was the Protoss (Kingison)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4sYlMHr_Lk
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWqGVGZHp28


Can you say BM master? lol Good grief bro. Pre GGs, vodka pauses. I would snap.. lol

Congrats though.


----------



## yks

I'ma start pre-GGing you Anti. jkjk


----------



## CravinR1

lol yeah I was messeded up, had drank a 16 oz cup of 100 proof smirnoff and refilled it a couple times









I entered 2 accounts tonight, got beat out in a ZvZ (my zerg obviously sucks) and won the tourney with my Protoss (once again the finals was PvZ)

Tourney 2.zip 41k .zip file


----------



## PROX1MI7Y

hahahaha pause for more vodka

mind games


----------



## Reflux

I feel ashamed for laughing but..


----------



## Alex132

It's pretty much true, I feel the same









I swear I am part-korean

(sc2 <3)


----------



## Sainesk

ewww, i'm probably gonna get moved from my fave league since this is probably the season 5 update...

which means i'll probably have to start learning to play P to stand a chance of getting all the random and P achievs.


----------



## HometownHero

I hate playing placement matches, even though nothing should really happen to my league placement. At least I hope not.


----------



## Anti!!

No telling what will happen to my 1v1 and its inactivity.


----------



## HometownHero

Can anyone tell me the standard timings for Hive tech and templars? Colossi are around 10 minutes, right? I always forget to scout for those mid and late game and its been killing me lately.


----------



## Anti!!

Hive tech is kinda lose. But usually HIVE only comes in a macro oriented game anyway. So, Take this lightly. I usually have to push to be three base, and hive tech done @ 16 minutes. It can be much earlier of course. But not on a full functioning 3 to 4 base with an army big enough to have let you survive that long.

If I'm not pushing for Hive cause I am mainly roach and only need Hive for 3/3 roaches I am usually around 18mins. But seeing as you roll Terran I love my Blords against terrans. So I like to push Bloords as soon as thors seem to be a main theme. You really just have to keep a scout on that infestor pit. It will be your soonest possible hive warning.

As for a High Temp timing? dunno. Dont play toss. But I do look for them from 10 min on. Like YKS has taught me. High temps usually means no colossus are being rushed to. IT doesnt mean they arent possible, but they are not your main concern at that time. So, if you can depend on colossus to be out at 10 min I would say High temps should be soon after. Maybe 13 ish? Cause you have to build two more buildings to be able to make them. I really am going out on a limb here. So, if im wrong tossies do correct me.









Another note is you can't really depend on timings to know what your opponent is doing. YOu may know this and you may not, but timings are used to either remind you ahead of time that you need to scout that possible tech, or no not to be out at night when ling speed finishes. muhaha.


----------



## Sainesk

oh yay, 14 day ban for playing legit macro games in bronze, yet most people who use win/loss bots go unpunished...







bet it was a mad diamond player after they'd lost to a "bronze" who reported me.

oh well, Korean ladder for the next 2 weeks...


----------



## Alex132

huh, why you get ban?!


----------



## Fortunex

I go infestor to counter the 9-12 minute marine-tank push, which gives me very early access to hive for 3/3 cracklings and broods to take out the inevitable herpderp siege lines. Hive timings can vary a lot depending on the build though.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> huh, why you get ban?!


most likely for playing in Bronze, since I find them to be far more creative players than the league I was in last season (hurr durr cheese 99% of the time, not that I couldn't hold it, but it got boring)


----------



## Alex132

I dont understand, they cant ban you for playing well and not hacking.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> I go infestor to counter the 9-12 minute marine-tank push, which gives me very early access to hive for 3/3 cracklings and broods to take out the inevitable herpderp siege lines. Hive timings can vary a lot depending on the build though.


Exactly. So, really i guess you just have to find the rush timings. But it all falls back to checking and scouting for the infestor pit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> most likely for playing in Bronze, since I find them to be far more creative players than the league I was in last season (hurr durr cheese 99% of the time, not that I couldn't hold it, but it got boring)


LOL +1 for the home team.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I dont understand, they cant ban you for playing well and not hacking.


But they can ban you for "Smurfing". Which is playin on an account that is purposely in bronze or a league that is below the league you should be in.

Personally, I think its only fair. HAHAHAHA Imagine if you were the bronzy continually getting is poo stuffed in by a smurfin diamond.. haha


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> most likely for playing in Bronze, since I find them to be far more creative players than the league I was in last season (hurr durr cheese 99% of the time, not that I couldn't hold it, but it got boring)


I somehow find it hard to believe. You could've just let someone else play on your account? They can't ban you for it right? I doubt there's a Blizzard policy on playing better then you are supposed to based on the league you are. So must have been hacks or excessive BM.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I somehow find it hard to believe. You could've just let someone else play on your account? They can't ban you for it right? I doubt there's a Blizzard policy on playing better then you are supposed to based on the league you are. So must have been hacks or excessive BM.


I reckon it was for losing till I got into bronze.

But I appealed, and they lifted the suspension now... fine i'll have to get the achievs in cheesy games in my real league now


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

After a year and 2 months (active only around 6 months) of owning the game, I went from Copper in Beta to Platinum. Just got promoted from Gold earlier this morning, and I'm really proud of myself. A bit slower than what I'd have liked, but an improvement nonetheless


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> most likely for playing in Bronze, since I find them to be far more creative players than the league I was in last season (hurr durr cheese 99% of the time, not that I couldn't hold it, but it got boring)


They are more creative because the much larger time window for bronze players(due to slow actions/reactions) allow them to. In my bronze days, I've had one BM zerg kid that has his 1st expansion at a high ground rocked gold base. He researched the overlord loading tech and build up there without destroying the rocks. I killed his supposedly main base and wasted so much time finding him on the map he finally came out with mutas and infestors. He was only on 1 base and I was on 3, but I didn't expect mutas and I didn't even know what infestors do at that time(I kept killing those infested terrans wasting my much superior army). I lost that game pretty bad cuz I couldn't get to high ground to get his infestors and his mutas were owning all my base(didn't have enough time to build turrets). Lost that game pretty bad and I still remember it to this day(game is at least a year ago). Mostly because of his continuous BM though









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> After a year and 2 months (active only around 6 months) of owning the game, I went from Copper in Beta to Platinum. Just got promoted from Gold earlier this morning, and I'm really proud of myself. A bit slower than what I'd have liked, but an improvement nonetheless


i miss my prime 6 months too


----------



## NguyenAdam

I've been in Plat since the beta and Bnet never promoted me. I always faced diamonds and everything. After I won my placement match today, they placed me in Diamond! At long lasttttt. Still the same play style for me though so meh. Plat -> Diamond isn't much of a difference. Playing against masters is alot more fun.


----------



## BigFan

I'm back but I dunno how much SCII I'll be playing. I decided to play my placement matches just to get an idea of how much worse I got from not playing for several month. Won all five of them(TvsP, TvsT, ZvsP, PvsP and PvsZ) and got placed in diamond







Sorry Sainesk, gonna have to work your way up there as well now XD
Replay: 
PvsZ on some new map that looks like typhon peaks. My APM is only 83 though but again I was playing Protoss, so, it's my lowest


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> I'm back but I dunno how much SCII I'll be playing. I decided to play my placement matches just to get an idea of how much worse I got from not playing for several month. Won all five of them(TvsP, TvsT, ZvsP, PvsP and PvsZ) and got placed in diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sainesk, gonna have to work your way up there as well now XD
> Replay:
> PvsZ on some new map that looks like typhon peaks. My APM is only 83 though but again I was playing Protoss, so, it's my lowest


Congrats, good to see you're back. After one of the recent patches everyone's APM seems to be below 100 as Blizzard changed the way it's counted. Mine is in the 80's as well, even less in short games.


----------



## fashric

Woohoo promoted to gold after my placement match. Keeping up with my target of getting promoted each new season. No more beating Plats when i'm in silver though







Would be a guaranteed rage fest when that happened.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> oh yay, 14 day ban for playing legit macro games in bronze, yet most people who use win/loss bots go unpunished...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bet it was a mad diamond player after they'd lost to a "bronze" who reported me.
> oh well, Korean ladder for the next 2 weeks...


Hah, you got banned for something like that? Why doesnt Blizzard ban all of the pros because literally every progammer has a smurf.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> and got placed in diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sainesk, gonna have to work your way up there as well now XD


Yay, I missed you lol.

Grats, placement is just trolling me. (Matched against Plats/Diamonds constantly during league lock, win most games, here have gold







)


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yay, I missed you lol.
> Grats, placement is just trolling me. (Matched against Plats/Diamonds constantly during league lock, win most games, here have gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Just keep winning and they will promote you. As long as you play consistently unlike me. Once school starts back up again I'm going to only be able to play on weekends.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> oh yay, 14 day ban for playing legit macro games in bronze, yet most people who use win/loss bots go unpunished...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bet it was a mad diamond player after they'd lost to a "bronze" who reported me.
> oh well, Korean ladder for the next 2 weeks...
> 
> 
> 
> Hah, you got banned for something like that? Why doesnt Blizzard ban all of the pros because literally every progammer has a smurf.
Click to expand...

This is very true. Lol.


----------



## CravinR1

Destiny even live streams him smurfing plat accounts to raise their mmr (in an attempt to get them promoted)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Destiny even live streams him smurfing plat accounts to raise their mmr (in an attempt to get them promoted)


I wonder why he hasn't been banned yet. Maybe cause its hard to detect a small amount.

I know that Beastyqt has a smurf account or more. lol I saw it in a replay of his where he got in a BM match with a cheesing player.


----------



## Sainesk

I think i'm quitting Random for now.

Can't decide if I should play Z or T though...


----------



## CravinR1

Z for sure

They're OP vs T as is, and when HotS comes out it'll be worse

I'm only gold 1v1, and I can easily beat my platinum Terran friend using zerg


----------



## HarrisLam

i agreed.

like even from watching pro games, I found that once the early game is gone, the Terran has close to no chance to win against zerg players that micro their mutas well (idra)

like in mid game when the muta count is higher than 10, its hard to defend a mineral line with 2 turrets, and the terran army ball will be too occupied guard the entrance of multiple bases that when they arrive, the mutas are gone.

and in late game its even worse, I've never seen Idra lost with corruptors into broodlords, forcing a few vikings and then transition into ultras.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Congrats, good to see you're back. After one of the recent patches everyone's APM seems to be below 100 as Blizzard changed the way it's counted. Mine is in the 80's as well, even less in short games.


Thanks, glad to know at least some old members stuck around. Is anyone else who was here way back still visiting or even playing the game? lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yay, I missed you lol.
> Grats, placement is just trolling me. (Matched against Plats/Diamonds constantly during league lock, win most games, here have gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


lol, thanks. Maybe it's trolling you or maybe you are indeed a gold player, hehe. I dunno about my placement matches though. I mean I got some silver and gold players and managed my way out of some rather bad spots with some good tank placement(TvsT). That last PvsZ game was just bizzare, lol. 15 or so FE into forge for cannons into +1 and 2/3 gateway with zealots+sentries to start, lol. I think I killed 15 hatcheries or so to end it because he had 3k and was on 4 bases, so, lots of drones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Z for sure
> They're OP vs T as is, and when HotS comes out it'll be worse
> I'm only gold 1v1, and I can easily beat my platinum Terran friend using zerg


debatable. Koreans make TvsZ seem in favour of T even late game but really it depends on the players. Early game is in Terran's favor but late game becomes harder especially once BLs, etc... are out but most games end before that I believe.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> debatable. Koreans make TvsZ seem in favour of T even late game but really it depends on the players. Early game is in Terran's favor but late game becomes harder especially once BLs, etc... are out but most games end before that I believe.


this. i think the races are very very close balanced.


----------



## CravinR1

I've lost 2 ZvTs out of 50 in the past 2 months.

Once was a 2 base turtle with Thors/hellions/siege, second was a hellion/rauder all in I wasn't prepared for

Other than that ZvT even vs higher ranked players is easy, I love when I'm z and see a T

And I'm primarily a Protoss player


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> debatable. Koreans make TvsZ seem in favour of T even late game but really it depends on the players. Early game is in Terran's favor but late game becomes harder especially once BLs, etc... are out but most games end before that I believe.


Unless a Terran player knows to constantly harass a Zerg player, the Zerg should win every time. I think it's harder for younger Terrans to understand that they need to put on constant aggression to keep the Zerg from droning up, especially when it's so easy to turtle. So, at lower levels I think Zerg is much better off, but otherwise it's balanced fairly well. However, I think tvp still needs work in favor of terran.


----------



## CravinR1

I played a game yesterday where he constantly hit me with tanks and marines and I killed him with Ling/banes into broods into ultras

Took my third out 2 or 3 times and was spliting his rines pretty good


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> But I appealed, and they lifted the suspension now... fine i'll have to get the achievs in cheesy games in *my real league now*


I was wondering why a bronze was taking me longer to beat than usual. I was like, "whoa, i actually have to sit up." when you defended a couple of my attacks. now i feel like a noob.

//

side note for the smurfing thing you guys were talking about, you can't get banned for smurfing on another account unless that account does not belong to you. for example, if i own 2 accounts in sc2 that are BOTH under my name, and i kept 1 in bronze while the other is in masters, that is within my right.

Smurfing simply means playing under an alias that you are not known by. Which is not illegal.

Playing on someone ELSES account is illegal. smurfing is a *by-product* because of that, but smurfing is not illegal.


----------



## Mwarren

Honestly, I'd have to say that Terran has the advantage in the early to mid game TvZ. Terran has a few builds that can outright kill a zerg of executed properly such as 2 rax, 3 rax stim timing, proxy double starport, slayers marine/hellion, and the standard 2 base marine tank push. During this period of time zerg only has around 3 very high risk builds that can kill you which are the 1/2 base baneling bust and a roach bust. Late game Zerg has the advantage easily due to the larva mechanic paying off more than the mule mechanic. If a terran wants to have any chance of winning late game they need to use nuke harass. Dropping 3-5 nukes at different locations while dropping at one location near constantly will allow you to keep your expos from being busted and allow you to macro up.

I think that the way to play TvZ right now is to go ghost mech and rely on nuke harass while you get your upgrades and bases up. No zerg unit comp can handle a 200/200 ghost/mech army and id consider it way in the favor of terran if you max out with it.


----------



## Anti!!

See, the discussion can be debated in so many directions it just gets old. I don't know why anyone even mentions balance. Every race has their time. Just let blizzard do their thing and move on. Lol


----------



## roberT_

Any plans for a KOTH in the near future? I haven't posted in this thread in a while but I'm a Terran recently promoted to Platinum last month. My normal SC2 buddy is bailing on me by going to India for the semester break. Let's get some games in. I'll try to remember to get in the OCN channel.


----------



## BigFan

Balance has been discussed hardcore in this thread. There is a reason it's 1789 pages lol.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_*
> 
> Any plans for a KOTH in the near future? I haven't posted in this thread in a while but I'm a Terran recently promoted to Platinum last month. My normal SC2 buddy is bailing on me by going to India for the semester break. Let's get some games in. I'll try to remember to get in the OCN channel.


Yeah, just hang in the OCN channel by default. I'm sure we will squeeze something in somewhere.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I played a game yesterday where he constantly hit me with tanks and marines and I killed him with Ling/banes into broods into ultras
> Took my third out 2 or 3 times and was spliting his rines pretty good


Attached is the replay, I should've probably lost but honestly short of rallying in my base he never stopped the pressure

Metalopolis (2) ZvT make moar lings.zip 112k .zip file


----------



## Anti!!

Exhale. In a thread where no one is raging. How is everyone?


----------



## Alex132

Lol hi, that previous person in that thread made me laugh. He is small.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Lol hi, that previous person in that thread made me laugh. He is small.


lol. All i did was post in the wrong thread, and he had a bad day with it. I dont get it. I dont just look for problems. grief. They all think i wanted him to post the right thread for me. I just wanted to be left alone. Wrong thread is all that i needed to know.

I respond and I'm called a sissy. Like im not supposed to take up for myself.

Edit: I saw your post. lol that was hilarious.


----------



## Dannnnn_the_man

Just stopped by to say hi to everyone. I'm not much of a player but i watch wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much starcraft. I watch like 4-5 hours a day when i just chill on the computer. After classes let out. It's just become a routine now and i love it.

That is all. <3


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dannnnn_the_man*
> 
> Just stopped by to say hi to everyone. I'm not much of a player but i watch wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much starcraft. I watch like 4-5 hours a day when i just chill on the computer. After classes let out. It's just become a routine now and i love it.
> That is all. <3


Welcome! SC2 love is a SC2 lover in my book.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Exhale. In a thread where no one is raging. How is everyone?


Can you link the thread?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I don't know why any of you are discussing balance. If you're not high Master/Grandmaster, I don't think we have enough knowledge of the game in order to discuss this. I mean, Cravin, you're in Gold and you've played a FEW games as Zerg and you're already claiming that Zerg is OP?

Doesn't make sense.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Can you link the thread?


It has been deleted.


----------



## BigFan

So, like I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't think I was ready for diamond with my lack of practice and the system agrees lol. I got depromoted down to plat but never actually got a sign saying that I got depromoted. Now I can actually win a game or two, lol. I seem to be having issues in ZvsP though, I don't think I've won any so far







I think it's my upgrades or rather lack of, lol. When the protoss is 1/0/1 or 2/0/2, sometimes I'm still at 0/0 because I get a late evo but working on it. TvsP is an odd matchup. In some cases, I'm able to win the game and other times, I get rolled badly. I'm gonna guess its my upgrades again and macro. Micro needs work now and I still haven't had a single TvsZ so far








Last replay: 
I actually took a third and worked on saturating it faster than the last several games so improvement XD Not to mention my APM is around normal in that game, 103 instead of the lower one I've been getting lately. Sadly, most of that was macro and a couple of drops, lol.


----------



## Sainesk

Everybody who's mentioned in OP (streamers etc.), i'll be updating ranks sometime this week. If you're not already ranked - play a match, otherwise I'll have to put your rank from the last season you played.

also, what do you guys think, should I leave in that someone was in one of the top two leagues during a season if say they've been in diamond since (with masters or higher one season)/masters (with GM one season).
example: *Sainesk - Bronze Terran (Season 2 GSL Code S Random)* <-- haha ye right, I know we said M/GM, but i'm sure if we train hard enough we could get one OCN member to at least tryout for a tournament and not fail with a 100% loss rate at the qualifier matches...

I just don't think it's fair if a person intentionally doesn't get ranked - so everybody thinks they are still on the same level, but the playstyles and level of play change all the time in the leagues, so if a new person comes to this thread they might wrongly think "oh, that guy is season 3 masters, must definitely be better than this season 5 diamond guy".


----------



## CravinR1

Well all last season I was beating platiinums

This morning at 4 am I played my 1v1 placement f*d up as an off race and lost, and yet I still got promoted to platinum

http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1900343/Cravin


----------



## RushMore1205

just wanted to show off my awsome gift my girlfriend gave me for Christmas:

these things are handpainted, the detail is insane


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RushMore1205*
> 
> just wanted to show off my awsome gift my girlfriend gave me for Christmas:
> these things are handpainted, the detail is insane


Where did she get those?!?!?


----------



## RushMore1205

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> Where did she get those?!?!?


there is a guy in Korea that makes them, once my girl gets home i will get his email from her and forward to who ever is interested


----------



## NguyenAdam

PM me the details when you get it! Hopefully they have a Kerrigan and Zeratul.


----------



## HometownHero

Those are pretty slick. On a related note, the gf got me a leopold with mx clears and a G9x for Christmas. I just need to get through one more day of family get-togethers until I can really try them out. Hope everyone else is enjoying the holidays too.


----------



## Illusive Spectre

Hey!!!

I started playing SC2 WoL Campaign. It's awesome.

My SC2 character name and code: DarkSpectre 122

Region: Europe


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Everybody who's mentioned in OP (streamers etc.), i'll be updating ranks sometime this week. If you're not already ranked - play a match, otherwise I'll have to put your rank from the last season you played.


Please add my stream to the list. Platinum Terran (Platinum last season and this season)

http://sc2ranks.com/us/1431259/roberT

http://www.twitch.tv/zhr_roberT


----------



## BigFan

Never realized how much higher the skill level has gotten in the last couple of months. Silver players actually take expansions now even reaching a third or fourth and upgrades are actually researched, just not fast T_T lol, I'm thinking I might get depromoted down to silver if I stick with random XD I already got depromoted back to gold with random so can't be that much worse no? lol.


----------



## NguyenAdam

Gold and silver league players are terrible. >.>


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RushMore1205*
> 
> there is a guy in Korea that makes them, once my girl gets home i will get his email from her and forward to who ever is interested


My girl got me a gtx 580 for christmas. It was 350 bucks shipped. The guy told me he would get me a tracking number too. His name is rushmoore. Where is my card at hommie??! Lololol.

I know its on its way. I just thought was funny you are interested in sc2 also. Hit me up sometime.


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Everybody who's mentioned in OP (streamers etc.), i'll be updating ranks sometime this week. If you're not already ranked - play a match, otherwise I'll have to put your rank from the last season you played.
> also, what do you guys think, should I leave in that someone was in one of the top two leagues during a season if say they've been in diamond since (with masters or higher one season)/masters (with GM one season).
> example: *Sainesk - Bronze Terran (Season 2 GSL Code S Random)* <-- haha ye right, I know we said M/GM, but i'm sure if we train hard enough we could get one OCN member to at least tryout for a tournament and not fail with a 100% loss rate at the qualifier matches...
> I just don't think it's fair if a person intentionally doesn't get ranked - so everybody thinks they are still on the same level, but the playstyles and level of play change all the time in the leagues, so if a new person comes to this thread they might wrongly think "oh, that guy is season 3 masters, must definitely be better than this season 5 diamond guy".


I know one OCN member who posts on the Dota thread here that is GM....or was.

I've been in Diamond last 3 seasons (don't play more than 50 games a season, i'm lazy!) and is it just me or is there a lot more cheese? I've played 12 so far and 10 of them I've gotten cheesed (even a 4 gate!!!!). 6-6, worst start in a while =/


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> I know one OCN member who posts on the Dota thread here that is GM....or was.
> I've been in Diamond last 3 seasons (don't play more than 50 games a season, i'm lazy!) and is it just me or is there a lot more cheese? I've played 12 so far and 10 of them I've gotten cheesed (even a 4 gate!!!!). 6-6, worst start in a while =/


Diamond league players cheese just as hard as platinum. Its very very annoying. Whenever I play a terran, he never wants to go into a macro game. BRB doing a 1-1-1.

PvZ, zergs do 2 base roach all in or sometimes a very strong 1 base roach all in.

PvP is just really hard unless you know the matchup very well. It takes lots of practice, good scouting, and better micro to win.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> Gold and silver league players are terrible. >.>


lol I would've said that a while back but coming back for a while from hiatus, I can see the difference considering I was once in silver and played against them for a while. Maybe its because I play around in my games and don't go for the kill if I can which gives them a chance to bounce back but I never had issues back when I was playing in season 3. I was in plat rocking Terran and was nearing diamond level or so. My point is, the skill cap has risen a lot more than I expected the last couple of months and with my lack of practice and playing random, I don't get as much time in each MU so you forget points here and there until you play the MU or it happened to you and you facepalm XD Either way, my game is going back to normal now so meh lol.
ZvsT I just played: 
After defending his pushes, I could've just went for the kill because he only had some tanks and marines but I decided to wait it out and well, I could've lost that game much sooner if I didn't make the right decisions imo. I did forget about upgrades completely after my evo chamber went down so I was on 2/1 for ranged and 2/0 for melee but he was only 1/1. That and I made a lot of small mistakes lol. Either way, the fact that he actually expanded to grab a 3rd, 4th and 5th is my point, same with having some upgrades.


----------



## yks

If you think the "cheese" here is bad. Go to Korea.

There is only one goal there. Winning. Cheese or not. The things they try to pull there! Because honestly, there is no cheese.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> If you think the "cheese" here is bad. Go to Korea.
> There is only one goal there. Winning. Cheese or not. The things they try to pull there! Because honestly, there is no cheese.


I love it, my most recent game: after my reaper harass, I got thor-scv all inned and since my scouting was denied (tried to re-enter with damaged reaper that harassed but it died) and I couldn't be bothered wasting a scan (didn't see thors/tanks/armory) I went mass hellions, i had a marine on the tower and he flew his main to the gold since it looked like a stalemate at my ramp. So it turned into hellion-scv all-in vs thor-scv all-in, but all that lost mining time for him meant I had too many hellions...


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I love it, my most recent game: after my reaper harass, I got thor-scv all inned and since my scouting was denied (tried to re-enter with damaged reaper that harassed but it died) and I couldn't be bothered wasting a scan (didn't see thors/tanks/armory) I went mass hellions, i had a marine on the tower and he flew his main to the gold since it looked like a stalemate at my ramp. So it turned into hellion-scv all-in vs thor-scv all-in, but all that lost mining time for him meant I had too many hellions...


How are you able to play in Korea? Isn't the lag really bad or something? As for your hellion thing, you must've had a lot of hellions if you were able to win against thors XD


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> If you think the "cheese" here is bad. Go to Korea.
> There is only one goal there. Winning. Cheese or not. The things they try to pull there! Because honestly, there is no cheese.


It may be referee to as cheese, but I do not recognize cheese. I just view it as an attempt to win a game.


----------



## yks

Exactly. There is no cheese.


----------



## connectwise

Yeah that's bull. It's just another way of saying the person won't take the time to practice to get good at the actual inners of the game and matchups.


----------



## roberT_

I successfuly stream sniped DJWheat last night after I noticed he was also in platinum! I closed the stream for the match of course.

http://www.twitch.tv/djwheat/b/303710232
go to Part 2
starts @ 1:28:50


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> How are you able to play in Korea? Isn't the lag really bad or something? As for your hellion thing, you must've had a lot of hellions if you were able to win against thors XD


nah doesn't lag at all.









Think the main reason I won was the hellions owned his scvs, so my hellion-scv vs thor-scv quickly turned to hellion-scv vs thors, so my scvs could help out and act like lings almost against the thors lol while a few tried to repair the hellions...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_*
> 
> I successfuly stream sniped DJWheat last night after I noticed he was also in platinum! I closed the stream for the match of course.
> http://www.twitch.tv/djwheat/b/303710232
> go to Part 2
> starts @ 1:28:50


Lol. Nice. Ill watch when I got home.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> nah doesn't lag at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think the main reason I won was the hellions owned his scvs, so my hellion-scv vs thor-scv quickly turned to hellion-scv vs thors, so my scvs could help out and act like lings almost against the thors lol while a few tried to repair the hellions...


Interesting. I tried a ping test with Korea using speedtest and I was getting 240ms or so which is pretty high. I agree with your main reason, lol. You probably 2 shot his SCVs with your hellions.


----------



## BigFan

Getting rolled over by mass +1 zealots+mass phoenixes is not fun as Zerg lol. I was on 3 bases on plateau to his 2 and my macro was actually on track(injects, constant larvae production, little to no supply blocks, etc...). I got a hydra den, put u spores but he picked off my hydras as soon as they hatched and took out a lot of drones. Interesting strat although had I scouted it, I would've just put up spores and got more hydras to prepare then it would've been shut down hard. Lesson learned! XD


----------



## CravinR1

I thought you were terran bigfan?


----------



## r3d33m3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Never realized how much higher the skill level has gotten in the last couple of months. Silver players actually take expansions now even reaching a third or fourth and upgrades are actually researched, just not fast T_T lol, I'm thinking I might get depromoted down to silver if I stick with random XD I already got depromoted back to gold with random so can't be that much worse no? lol.


yep, the skill level is so much higher now, i like it^^ people shouldn't feel bad when they're only gold lol


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I thought you were terran bigfan?


yes and no. I played random and switched to Terran in season 3 but I'm playing as Zerg on my main account now. Left Terran for my 2nd account








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3d33m3r*
> 
> yep, the skill level is so much higher now, i like it^^ people shouldn't feel bad when they're only gold lol


lol, true true, I don't really mind. It was the same level I was when I stopped playing and I'm almost back up to my usual level, just need to work more on my mico now









Edit: Just faced 2 Zergs back to back on the ladder as T. I won both games but they were really interesting and bizzare. First one was on meta, my opponent goes roach+hydras so I go MMMT and get ahead on upgrades. We engage several times and he manages to clean up my army but the constant production and a bunker helped to clean up his remaining forces, etc... He attacked my exp again and I was down 75 supply(120 to his 195) but I somehow managed to survive. I managed to drop his main sniping his pool, roach warren, some drones, etc... than sniped his 4th as we engaged for the final time. I came out on top and he just left.

2nd game, it was on Arid Plateau. I went for a FE although I got up 3 rax before finally building my cc. He just kept on trying to bane bust me and broke my wall the first 3 times. At one point, he ran like 13 slings into my main and I only had a tank and 4 marines left so he took out some SCV before I was able to clean up. Once I had siege tanks, he was able to break the wall but couldn't do more damage than that but he was so resilient in his attempts. I think he tried at least 7 times or so and every time, his slings+bane army was bigger than the previous attempt. By the end, I had 6+ tanks all sieged up in my exp and there wasn't much room for movement XD

I managed to get a drop in to take out his bane nest. He tried dropping my main with 4 OLs but I caught them. Then I simultaneously attacked his 3rd using a banshee to snipe his infestation pit and dropped his main(2 medivacs) to take out his pool and then spire which was still building. Once his slings started to engage my marines, he left. I think he realized at that point that his pool will be lost after his slings were cleaned up, same with his spire so he'll only be able to make infestors which meant that had I pushed at that exact moment with my MMT+2 banshees, I would win the game easily.


----------



## yks

Just wanted to inform everyone that our very own OCN's Hummingbird hit Grand Master on Tuesday. I spoke to him then, but finally got around to this post.

Applaud, applaud!

GM Hummingbird!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Just wanted to inform everyone that our very own OCN's Hummingbird hit Grand Master on Tuesday. I spoke to him then, but finally got around to this post.
> Applaud, applaud!
> GM Hummingbird!










I meant to tell him I saw him on Dragon's stream a few days ago. I was so proud.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Getting rolled over by mass +1 zealots+mass phoenixes is not fun as Zerg lol. I was on 3 bases on plateau to his 2 and my macro was actually on track(injects, constant larvae production, little to no supply blocks, etc...). I got a hydra den, put u spores but he picked off my hydras as soon as they hatched and took out a lot of drones. Interesting strat although had I scouted it, I would've just put up spores and got more hydras to prepare then it would've been shut down hard. Lesson learned! XD







yeah it's a cool strat that's for sure.


----------



## CravinR1

So what do zerg players do against a 2 base turtling mechng terran?

I was on 5 bases with 70 workers and had roaches/lings/banes/mutes and couldn't stop the army from terran.

He had blue flamed hellions (7-10), 7 or 8 tanks, and seems like 5 or 6 thors


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Just wanted to inform everyone that our very own OCN's Hummingbird hit Grand Master on Tuesday. I spoke to him then, but finally got around to this post.
> Applaud, applaud!
> GM Hummingbird!


I saw it last night and was planning to congratulate him








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So what do zerg players do against a 2 base turtling mechng terran?
> I was on 5 bases with 70 workers and had roaches/lings/banes/mutes and couldn't stop the army from terran.
> He had blue flamed hellions (7-10), 7 or 8 tanks, and seems like 5 or 6 thors


What to do? This is what I did:
I took several expansions, got upgrades and went mass roaches when I noticed he was going mass hellions. Then I kept on engaging his army, getting surrounds, sniping thors or tanks, etc... Make sure to micro those roaches though because you'll have all the other ones in the back unable to hit if you just a-move them and try to get some splits if possible. We kept trading and I took another base(gold). Eventually, I transitioned into ultras because I had the armor upgrades and started upgrading melee. Result? My ultras ate his mech, his PF at his gold exp and I don't think I even lost a single one but again make sure to move them to the units then attack otherwise they are even worse than roaches XD The end result of the game was 20+ ultras at his doorstep max upgrades and he couldn't do much. He managed to get out 2 BCs but with the amount of upgrades my ultras had, his BCs were doing 2 damage a shot lol. That's at least my game plan for mech terran. Had he had marauders, it would've been a bit different but I would've kept alternating my composition, add in slings for meat shields, etc...

Replay: 
Nice to see my APM is back up to normal again









Edit: Well I think i lost a couple but I engaged >10 tanks with 5+ hellions and some thors as well as a PF lol so it makes sense XD


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So what do zerg players do against a 2 base turtling mechng terran?
> I was on 5 bases with 70 workers and had roaches/lings/banes/mutes and couldn't stop the army from terran.
> He had blue flamed hellions (7-10), 7 or 8 tanks, and seems like 5 or 6 thors


Against 2 base turtling mech I would grab a fast third while on ling/bane/and utilizing mutas to keep him at bay while grabbing a 4th and teching to hive with double upgrades. You also need to make him spread his army up and deny his third/forth. If you let him get a easy third he will be in a position where his late game army will be stronger than yours in a straight up engagement. Use your mutas to keep a thor or 2 and tons of turrets in his base(s) while utilizing your main army to force un sieges while doing stuff such as ling run bys and nydus worms. If you can do all of that while taking expos yourself, upgrading, and getting hive tech you should do fine against most mech players. It just takes a lot of multi tasking which is what separates the different skill levels in SC2.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Just wanted to inform everyone that our very own OCN's Hummingbird hit Grand Master on Tuesday. I spoke to him then, but finally got around to this post.
> Applaud, applaud!
> GM Hummingbird!


Yeah, I saw him and my jaw dropped. I must have looked like a rabid school girl fan. lol.

He said, " I'm just like everyone else" lol!


----------



## BigFan

Just has a long ZvsP where my opponent's army just kept growing and growing. I thought I was gonna get rolled over because he was up on supply and had an extra base(a gold one) but I managed:
Long story short, I went for a sling+roach all in or kinda of an all in since I thought I was getting 4 gated lol. Once I saw he took his exp, I just droned up eventually taking my 2nd expansion before he took his so I was up. He took his own 2nd expansion and took out mine but he lost a decent amount of immortals when he blinked his stalkers out as well as some stalkers. I rebuilt it, kept getting upgrades and went for mass slings with some roaches. I used nydus worms to come up with a plan because his army was just getting bigger and eventually, I'll get rolled so I would try to nydus his main then exp then his 2nd, etc... I manage to snipe his 2nd base and some pylons powering his gateways in his main, etc... Eventually, I go for BLs and figure I'll dump my minerals into slings+some roaches for the zealots. He'll try to blink under them to snipe them, I'll get a surround and take the battle. It worked as planned, not my fault he just sat down and never attacked my base or even tried to blink into my main, snipe tech and blink out. Result?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Just has a long ZvsP where my opponent's army just kept growing and growing. I thought I was gonna get rolled over because he was up on supply and had an extra base(a gold one) but I managed:
> Long story short, I went for a sling+roach all in or kinda of an all in since I thought I was getting 4 gated lol. Once I saw he took his exp, I just droned up eventually taking my 2nd expansion before he took his so I was up. He took his own 2nd expansion and took out mine but he lost a decent amount of immortals when he blinked his stalkers out as well as some stalkers. I rebuilt it, kept getting upgrades and went for mass slings with some roaches. I used nydus worms to come up with a plan because his army was just getting bigger and eventually, I'll get rolled so I would try to nydus his main then exp then his 2nd, etc... I manage to snipe his 2nd base and some pylons powering his gateways in his main, etc... Eventually, I go for BLs and figure I'll dump my minerals into slings+some roaches for the zealots. He'll try to blink under them to snipe them, I'll get a surround and take the battle. It worked as planned, not my fault he just sat down and never attacked my base or even tried to blink into my main, snipe tech and blink out. Result?


XD that sounds like a destiny quote. haha!


----------



## DoomDash

Congrats Hummingbird.... that means I could occasionally take games off a GM







.

I wish I still played this game!! Life sucks!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> XD that sounds like a destiny quote. haha!


lol, maybe, I dunno. I don't watch Destiny's stream so I don't know how his BMs are XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Congrats Hummingbird.... that means I could occasionally take games off a GM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wish I still played this game!! Life sucks!


So, why aren't you playing this game again? XD Hopefully everything is working out for you.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm going to try... again. Just need to hook up my PC to my monitor in the computer room again, since its hooked up to my TV ATM.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm going to try... again. Just need to hook up my PC to my monitor in the computer room again, since its hooked up to my TV ATM.


Yes, you should. lol

But I have played on my big screen. Still fun.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm going to try... again. Just need to hook up my PC to my monitor in the computer room again, since its hooked up to my TV ATM.


Fair enough









I think I got my PvsX opener lol. I wanted to use carriers so I one based to carriers and went chargelots for my mineral dump for support then I'll exp as I cb them and added more gates/get upgrades, etc... Lost 2 games at first(PvsP and PvsT). I almost defended the first PvsP but the reason I lost was I kept my 2 carriers back and I also engaged his army at the small ramp so only 3-4 zealots got hits in then. PvsT, he proxied 3 rax and just walked in with marines after asking if I was ready lol. Third game, PvsP I did it! He went heavy blink stalkers and kept blinking into my base sniping pylons and structure. I eventually fended it off and went on the offensive but I lost 12 probes or so because I didn't want to use my 2 carriers yet but I had to otherwise it was gg. Then I just went mass chargelots+carriers+mothership!!







I was able to take out his 2 exp and then went into his base and he gg'd. Going to see if I can fix it up a bit because until I get charge, zealots can be kited by marauders and roaches so they can be pretty bad in those 2 matchups. Maybe a quick charge then exp then beacon or something. Another option would be to make a couple of sentries or some stalkers and delay when the first carrier is out.
BO so far:
9 Pylon
12 Gateway or Gas
13 Gas or Gateway
17 Pylon
18 or so Cybernetics Core(research WG as soon as it finishes and cb it)
From here on, keep making probes, add another gateway and pylon. After that, get up a stargate and/or twilight council(council might be best first for charge but I did stargate in my games so far). Then add another gateway and get up a fleet beacon as soon as stargate is finished. I stockpiled gas for the carriers aside from using it for structures or the charge upgrade and keep trying to pump zealots, cb the upgrade, more probes and pylons of course. Gonna try this several more times to see what its like against Zerg lol. I think +1 upgrade is needed though.

Replay: 

Edit:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=299261


----------



## BigFan

Happy New Year Everyone!!!!


----------



## Anti!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

happy new year scrubs!


----------



## HometownHero

Happy New Year everyone! Time to wash my hangover away with starcraft..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Happy New Year everyone! Time to wash my hangover away with starcraft..


I could make your head hurt a little more with some butt spankings. haha. Dont look at this seasons ranks though. Havent played any..


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I could make your head hurt a little more with some butt spankings. haha. Dont look at this seasons ranks though. Havent played any..


Think I've played 3 games this season so far? I'm rank 90 something, lol. Hopefully I absorbed some skill by watching so much sc2 lately...


----------



## BountyHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Think I've played 3 games this season so far? I'm rank 90 something, lol. Hopefully I absorbed some skill by watching so much sc2 lately...


I wish it worked that way !

"I know how to macro whoa"


----------



## CravinR1

Watching casts has helped me TREMENDOUSLY


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Watching casts has helped me TREMENDOUSLY


Yeah, but putting it in action is where it pays off. I just dont have time.


----------



## CravinR1

Best bit of advice ever:

Pick ONE area and focus and practice it til you perfect it


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Best bit of advice ever:
> Pick ONE area and focus and practice it til you perfect it


Yup. Especially with mechanics.

Ie: Focus on never getting supply blocked. Never floating money, etc.
Then it becomes nuances. Focus on getting your gasses not too early, not too late. Focus on expanding at the right time, etc.

Once your mechanics are solid, then you focus on simple things. Your build should be adaptable.

For example. As a terran, on shattered, I go reactored hellion FE into 3 tank-marine push. If I see he's still on two base and massing, I pull back and turtle. If he grabbed a third, I push. If hes going spire and droned a lot, I push. Try to develop a flow to your play so that you can, based on what your opponent does, jump into your next phase. Have this planned at least till your third base.


----------



## DoomDash

Played Twist today in a some-what close TvT! He won but it was a lot of fun.

Also beat a Master league Protoss friend in a close best of 3, looks like I can at least still put up a fight vs masters.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Played Twist today in a some-what close TvT! He won but it was a lot of fun.
> Also beat a Master league Protoss friend in a close best of 3, looks like I can at least still put up a fight vs masters.


Yup, no worries there. Grind out a whole day on ladder to get used to the meta-game and you'll be kicking butt in no time.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Yup, no worries there. Grind out a whole day on ladder to get used to the meta-game and you'll be kicking butt in no time.


THis makes me sad. Life, work, family. There is just not enough time in the day.


----------



## Sainesk

hope bliz hurry up with HOTS + Blizzard DOTA, DOTA 2 community makes a thread over on the bliz forums titled "I'm random, and I cheesed and stream-sniped to GM" look like a thread full of friendly people.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> hope bliz hurry up with HOTS + Blizzard DOTA, DOTA 2 community makes a thread over on the bliz forums titled "I'm random, and I cheesed and stream-sniped to GM" look like a thread full of friendly people.


Hahahaha, yeah the blizz forums are a cesspool of complainers. BF3 forums are even worse though.


----------



## Anti!!

I dread HOTS. Total balance mayhem is possible to ensue. I hope not. But i cant cross my fingers that much. It may give me arthritis.

I cant wait till blizz dota though. muhaha


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> THis makes me sad. Life, work, family. There is just not enough time in the day.


Time is money and then some, this is why I only sleep 4 hours a day.


----------



## DoomDash

Love White-ra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3-QTBYPgl0&feature=g-u&context=G2ae08d2FUAAAAAAABAA


----------



## Andr3az

How hard would SC2 be for total RTS newbie?

I haven't played any RTS games other than few odd AOE matches, but thinking of getting it


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andr3az*
> 
> How hard would SC2 be for total RTS newbie?
> I haven't played any RTS games other than few odd AOE matches, but thinking of getting it


The first thing to keep in mind is it is fun. It is played to be fun. That is all you should focus on until you are good enough that you consider getting higher and higher in national rankings to be fun.









But if you have played a few AOE games you would at least understand the point of the game. I say get it. Your missing out on a HUGE community. One that I wish had been available to me back when starcraft 1 first came out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Love White-ra
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3-QTBYPgl0&feature=g-u&context=G2ae08d2FUAAAAAAABAA


Good to see white-ra killin it up.


----------



## BigFan

You guys should watch Polt's stream. Great music and he was tearing it up yesterday. I think he played Idra on Shakuras and beat him even once Idra had 5 bases or so but he got BM'd XD He's almost number 1 GM in Korea and is winning most of his games making some rather epic comebacks in some cases







He almost played Nestea(lagged out :/) but it's all good. The games are also entertaining and he's somewhat interactive in chat(mostly gg and such after games).


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> You guys should watch Polt's stream. Great music and he was tearing it up yesterday. I think he played Idra on Shakuras and beat him even once Idra had 5 bases or so but he got BM'd XD He's almost number 1 GM in Korea and is winning most of his games making some rather epic comebacks in some cases
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He almost played Nestea(lagged out :/) but it's all good. The games are also entertaining and he's somewhat interactive in chat(mostly gg and such after games).


By good music, do you mean that damn Korean song with the catchy whistling? I hear it at least once on every Korean player's stream.

But Polt has been on a tear, I agree. I've been watching him a lot recently and he is looking pretty sharp.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I'll be going to my first barcraft and local Starcraft II tournament in Chicago. Anyone who wants to meet and play games should come! $200 prize free entry

http://www.facebook.com/events/127645514019382/

Containers/DarkKnight/SubTitle_Grey&SkinSrc=[G]Skins/DarkKnight/Home-Standard-Menu]http://www.starcraftchicago.com/Home/tabid/59/ctl/Details/Mid/430/ItemID/74/Default.aspx?ContainerSrc=[G]Containers/DarkKnight/SubTitle_Grey&SkinSrc=[G]Skins/DarkKnight/Home-Standard-Menu


----------



## ntherblast

Why do people expand in their allies natural?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Looks like I'll be going to my first barcraft and local Starcraft II tournament in Chicago. Anyone who wants to meet and play games should come! $200 prize free entry
> http://www.facebook.com/events/127645514019382/
> Containers/DarkKnight/SubTitle_Grey&SkinSrc=[G]Skins/DarkKnight/Home-Standard-Menu]http://www.starcraftchicago.com/Home/tabid/59/ctl/Details/Mid/430/ItemID/74/Default.aspx?ContainerSrc=[G]Containers/DarkKnight/SubTitle_Grey&SkinSrc=[G]Skins/DarkKnight/Home-Standard-Menu


Hmm, I should come. I think 200 usd will pay for my gas up there and back on my motorcycle. Cause Im sure to pwn and win that one. lol!!!!

lies. Alll liess.


----------



## Heazy

I can't win ZvP anymore. Even when I have more upgrades and outresource the opponent by 5k+

So I just play macro games ZvT and ZvZ and always do some sort of cheese ZvP


----------



## Goaky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> By good music, do you mean that damn Korean song with the catchy whistling? I hear it at least once on every Korean player's stream.
> But Polt has been on a tear, I agree. I've been watching him a lot recently and he is looking pretty sharp.


A hundred bucks says this is the one:


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heazy*
> 
> I can't win ZvP anymore. Even when I have more upgrades and outresource the opponent by 5k+
> So I just play macro games ZvT and ZvZ and always do some sort of cheese ZvP


Not heazy the master zerg!?!? Oh no!!! All hope is lost for the swarm!!!!


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I'm going to another barcarft as well, in Milwaukee this Sunday.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goaky*
> 
> A hundred bucks says this is the one:


Yup, didn't even have to hit play because the only English word in the song is "troublemaker".

Also, hope everyone is watching the Homestory Cup IV. I love listening to pros cast games; you gain a whole lot more.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goaky*
> 
> *snip*


I don't really like most music that isn't metal, but there's just something catchy about the Korean music they play at the tournaments...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yup, didn't even have to hit play because the only English word in the song is "troublemaker".
> Also, hope everyone is watching the Homestory Cup IV. I love listening to pros cast games; you gain a whole lot more.


Nope. At work.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm watching it since the finals are at the barcraft I'm goign to.


----------



## DoomDash

This is the bar in Milwaukee I'm going to Sunday:

http://www.tonictavern.com/?page_id=22

This is the one in Chicago I'm going to for the tournament:

http://gamepazzo.com/gallery-2

looks like the 2nd one isnt a real bar, or something.


----------



## BigFan

Not watching the finals, too many things to do lol. I've started using different control groups so that I can switch between my 3 bases and I'm still messing them up given I've only played 7 games with them. My games today were all kinda odd though. I got to use thors and battlecrusiers, almost lost to proxy gates and ran like 30+ marines into 15 banes or so even though all I needed to do was survive that and a move into the Zerg's base. Good thing I had some thors back home lol.
TvsP: 
I somehow managed to hold on against my opponent's first major attack. Good thing my micro is decent enough to help me survive. I outexpanded my opponent big time and went battlecruisers. I had to get rid of some units first and that probably wasn't a good idea because I could've lost the game XD

TvsP: 
I decided to go for some thors+marines since I never use them and saw Polt doing it on his stream. Well, just my luck since it seems I get 4 gated by my opponent. It was one thor and scvs against 5 zealots+5 stalkers or so and I somehow managed to survive and bring myself back into the game. My thor was in the red range and his hp was down to 5 but I somehow managed to repair him back up lol. I even skipped vikings when he had colossi out and opted for the cannon upgrade because I knew some immortals will be coming.

TvsZ: 
My opponent went for a bane bust and almost succeeded in winning early on but I was able to come back and pretty much do what I did in the TvsP battlecrusier game lol.


----------



## ntherblast

How are you suppose to get promoted in team games(I play random teams)? To get promoted you need to face and beat favored teams right? Now here is the issue anytime I face a favored team the opponents are higher ranks/leagues than us which I dont mind but this is what tops it off they are also friends. PRetty sure most people know that an AT will stomp a RT anyday considering many factors such as coordination. Please don't tell me to go make a team or find friends thanks!


----------



## BountyHead

I think you answered your own question. In theory as you move up its pairing you with another random 2v2 player of similar skill level . SO you can try to come up with a strategy right at the beginning but other than that .


----------



## CravinR1

Find a team get a build


----------



## DoomDash

2v2 is the sucks.


----------



## HometownHero

You have to realize that 2v2 is not 1v1. There are no macro team games. Its all about who rushes first pretty much or who can hide their cheese better. Im pretty sure you can get to plat with a protoss and zerg by solely using ovie vision on the high ground to warp in dts/units. Just have to be cautious with your ovie placement.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You have to realize that 2v2 is not 1v1. There are no macro team games. Its all about who rushes first pretty much or who can hide their cheese better. Im pretty sure you can get to plat with a protoss and zerg by solely using ovie vision on the high ground to warp in dts/units. Just have to be cautious with your ovie placement.


I tell my wife this all the time. Yet she still misplaces her ovies. Wait... what ovies we talking about?

But seriously. Team games are hard without a good teammates. You have to be the top player of your team in randoms, and be the reason you win most of the time to stay a winner. If you stay a winner you get promoted. I just try to get 2 friends that are good, and play 4v4 randoms. lol

Then I get one friend and do 3v3 randoms, and get a good friend to do 2v2s. Easy as pie.


----------



## DoomDash

Pictures and Video from Milwaukees first barcraft event. I think it turned out pretty well for only 2 days notice, and starting early on a Sunday. 58 news was there, supposed to be on at 10!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Looks like it was pretty chill. Also like that bar a lot, pretty cool looking.


----------



## DoomDash

It was very chill and fun. We had the whole bar to ourselves.


----------



## DoomDash

We got on the news!!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> We got on the news!!


A small step in history! lol nice.


----------



## ntherblast

]I was watchng a video of destiny and he was playing sc2 and he opened google chrome so that it was ontop of sc2 while he had sc2 open in fullscreen how do you do this without tabbing out?

eg. @3:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xqpJh8Kx24

how do you embed a youtube video into a post on these forums what are the tags? is it allowed on these forums?


----------



## BountyHead

Windowed Fullscreen mode. That's how I play , it makes it really easy to alt-tab and change my music or reply to IM's


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead*
> 
> Windowed Fullscreen mode. That's how I play , it makes it really easy to alt-tab and change my music or reply to IM's


This. Its lightning fast on my computer.


----------



## HometownHero

Broke down and bought a GSL season pass yesterday. I am loving the new format.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Broke down and bought a GSL season pass yesterday. I am loving the new format.


how much?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BountyHead*
> 
> Windowed Fullscreen mode. That's how I play , it makes it really easy to alt-tab and change my music or reply to IM's


I tried it but seems that the colors are washed out is it because it uses the desktop gamma?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> how much?


You can get a GSL "Light" pass, which is basically a season pass with one ad before every video for $15. The ad is about 15 seconds and I'm so used to them from streams anyway so it doesnt really bother me. Definitely worth the investment. Going to bunker rush every game versus Zerg on entombed valley now...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You can get a GSL "Light" pass, which is basically a season pass with one ad before every video for $15. The ad is about 15 seconds and I'm so used to them from streams anyway so it doesnt really bother me. Definitely worth the investment. Going to bunker rush every game versus Zerg on entombed valley now...


I assume gomtv.net is where i go?


----------



## Sainesk

are GSL tickets giftable?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> are GSL tickets giftable?


I don't know, but I accept!


----------



## Anti!!

Hear hear!!


----------



## HometownHero

Bomber...


----------



## Boiller

Hey guys, I'm becoming more and more bored and frustrated with FPS games, while playing with RPGs and RTS' on the side. I'm thinking of doing a switch, focusing on playing more RTS, which I enjoy more (my reaction times, so slow







). Is SC2 a good RTS to buy now for a beginner RTS player?


----------



## roasty

I am very interested in playing SC2 (total noob) and would love some pointers as well.

Please all experts, your advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boiller*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm becoming more and more bored and frustrated with FPS games, while playing with RPGs and RTS' on the side. I'm thinking of doing a switch, focusing on playing more RTS, which I enjoy more (my reaction times, so slow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Is SC2 a good RTS to buy now for a beginner RTS player?


Yeah it's good for beginners and experts. They place you in a league where you will in theory fight people on your same level, and as you get better, so do you opponents.

There is plenty of tips and info on getting better in the first post of this thread, and all over teamliquid.net


----------



## HarrisLam




----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*


Great example of the fun of sc2 haha. +rep! lol


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Great example of the fun of sc2 haha. +rep! lol


thanks dude!!

I got so excited about this, especially cuz I'm really not that good in this game (given, the enemies this game was worse, kinda) AND this is my first nuke

this alone is worth $10 of the $60 purchase


----------



## HometownHero

Newegg has SC2 on sale for $30 today. Already posted it in the deals section, but I figured someone might want another account or something. I might grab a second account myself...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Newegg has SC2 on sale for $30 today. Already posted it in the deals section, but I figured someone might want another account or something. I might grab a second account myself...


I think about getting one. That's less than £20. Anyone who could buy one for me and then send me a key? I could pay by Paypal.


----------



## Anti!!

Do they sell eu and kr accounts?


----------



## HometownHero

I think EU is easy, you just buy a copy of the game. For the Korean version I think it's a lot harder. I remember reading somewhere you need a Korean ss number to play. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I think EU is easy, you just buy a copy of the game. For the Korean version I think it's a lot harder. I remember reading somewhere you need a Korean ss number to play. I could be wrong though.


the way I did it is I bought a Taiwan version. It uses the same server as Korean, only difference is all the dialogue is Taiwanese instead of Korean.

Here's the guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295959


----------



## DoomDash

If all things go according to plan, me and my girlfriend should be living in South Korea for awhile in 2013. She plans on teaching English, and I plan on playing Tekken in arcades, and Starcraft II every day.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> and I plan on playing Tekken in arcades, and Starcraft II every day.


so... are you going to try to join a pro team?









let us know how many girls try to come onto you whenever you say "i'm in masters league", might have to move there too depending on your results


----------



## ntherblast

Someone explain to me how in 2v2 i am in platnium and a random ally i get is in gold and we face a diamond and high ranked platnium which equals teams even. On another occasion I faced 2 platnium arranged team with me and my ally being plat and we were favored how does this make sense?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Someone explain to me how in 2v2 i am in platnium and a random ally i get is in gold and we face a diamond and high ranked platnium which equals teams even. On another occasion I faced 2 platnium arranged team with me and my ally being plat and we were favored how does this make sense?


Its based on your win/loss trends. If you and your ally were both winning regularly more than losing it will place u against harder opponents


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Its based on your win/loss trends. If you and your ally were both winning regularly more than losing it will place u against harder opponents


This

On another note. I bought a gtx 580 here on OCN. It was December 21st, 2011 to be exact. I HAVE YET TO RECEIVE IT!!!!!


----------



## NguyenAdam

If any of you are from South and are planning to attend Mechacon Anime Convention in New Orleans, please like my post about a potential Starcraft 2 Tournament!









http://www.facebook.com/MechaCon.Anime.Convention


----------



## NguyenAdam

Here is my replay of a PvZ. Punished a terran by doing a simple 4 gate because he did a poorly executed FE.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rb1kedgb5tli5w3


----------



## CravinR1

Watching your fe now, but here are a couple of my PvT

One was me drunk vs silver and the other was me vs plat, both are 1 gate fe's

PvT fe.zip 82k .zip file


*edit*
Meh if he held your push you'd have been so far behind it'd been game over. Nice scouting and nice execution on your four gate punishment


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Watching your fe now, but here are a couple of my PvT
> One was me drunk vs silver and the other was me vs plat, both are 1 gate fe's
> 
> PvT fe.zip 82k .zip file
> 
> *edit*
> Meh if he held your push you'd have been so far behind it'd been game over. Nice scouting and nice execution on your four gate punishment


He wouldn't have been able to hold it because I scouted and knew that he wasn't ready for it. Most diamond terrans don't even know how to properly scout and FE.


----------



## burwij

So I was doing 3v3 at 2am with a couple of bronze/silver friends when this happened:

http://imgur.com/a/8KVcW#0










Day9/megumixbear/NrGsteve did a mothership/infestor/raven monobattle and then left the game when we gg'd out.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn I want a GSL year pass but they expensive







.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Damn I want a GSL year pass but they expensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I dont think youve missed any must-see games so far this season.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



sC dropped to code A today too


----------



## roasty

I am really intrested in playing SC2 and I have come across a copy of the original starcraft (brood wars included) which is all new to me. What are some of the stratgies that I can do in the original starcraft that can help me when I start SC2?

Also,

What would you all say are the best 2 build stratgies for a beginner to learn?


----------



## CravinR1

3 rax aggression is the easiest beginning build for terran, 2 tech and a reactor


----------



## 13321G4

I believe the difference between SC2 and brood wars is too big though I've never played the latter. Sure the basics quick finger skills are the same but I don't think it will be a smooth transition.

For new players I advise watching a lot of the newbie tuesdays, with utmost priority daily 252 "getting into SC2" and the daily "secrets of APM and Hot-keys. Also the daily on refining builds is a important watch. If you feel like watching more Daily's watch the rest of the Newbie Tuesday's that are relevant to your race. Addicted to Day[9], watch the rest ;-).

For beginners I advise you to refine/learn a 1 base strategy, expanding whenever you feel like it. Once you find that you are either bored of 1 base strats, or just want a new challenge, find a 2 base opening that you like.

But most importantly: HAFE FUN (and definitely get SC2!)


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roasty*
> 
> I am really intrested in playing SC2 and I have come across a copy of the original starcraft (brood wars included) which is all new to me. What are some of the stratgies that I can do in the original starcraft that can help me when I start SC2?
> Also,
> What would you all say are the best 2 build stratgies for a beginner to learn?


The differences between the two are too great to compare really. Broodwar requires alot more skill and such. SC2 is alot more beginner friendly, but gets very challenging when competing at high levels.


----------



## DoomDash

It takes more skill because the system is stupid to be blunt. It was smart at that time, but a lot of the stuff they changed about SCII are things that only make sense. Loved it back then, played it hardcore, but I couldn't go back even if I prefer most of the units and match ups.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It takes more skill because the system is stupid to be blunt. It was smart at that time, but a lot of the stuff they changed about SCII are things that only make sense. Loved it back then, played it hardcore, but I couldn't go back even if I prefer most of the units and match ups.


This. Also, strategies in sc2 are you different to the point it would not be too effecient to learn or master them. Sc2 is so much more user friendly its really not worth it to play brood war. I have played them all religiously. I even tried to play some sc1 to reminisce but it just frustrated the piss outta me.. Sc2 has just evolved to much.

But teamliquid.net has a liquipedia still up for sc1. Its rather helpful.


----------



## ntherblast

What is this yellow lock icon that appears when browsing the forums


----------



## Ruckol1

I had to unistall the game, with school starting back up and my competitiveness, I better stick to single player games right now. Plus when I'd lose and outplayed my opponent I flipped something wicked.


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruckol1*
> 
> I had to unistall the game, with school starting back up and my competitiveness, I better stick to single player games right now. Plus when I'd lose and outplayed my opponent I flipped something wicked.


If you lost, then your opponent outplayed you no?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> What is this yellow lock icon that appears when browsing the forums


If you click on it, then it would tell you this.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> If you lost, then your opponent outplayed you no?
> If you click on it, then it would tell you this.


Thanks it wasn't working earlier


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> If you lost, then your opponent outplayed you no?


Not at all sometimes you can completely outplay an opponent and they just get lucky or you make one tiny but as it turns out significant mistake those are the most frustrating games to loose except possibly 6 pools and the old 4 gate.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Not at all sometimes you can completely outplay an opponent and they just get lucky or you make one tiny but as it turns out significant mistake those are the most frustrating games to loose except possibly 6 pools and the old 4 gate.


You can't lose because of a tiny mistake. If you lost because of it that means it was a big mistake and your opponent used it to his advantage therefore outplaying you to win a game. You can't outplay someone and lose. Also the the severity of mistakes changes as you move higher in ladder ranks, for example getting supply blocked or mismicroing in a silver league is a tiny mistake while in masters it can cost you the game.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can't lose because of a tiny mistake. If you lost because of it that means it was a big mistake and your opponent used it to his advantage therefore outplaying you to win a game. You can't outplay someone and lose. Also the the severity of mistakes changes as you move higher in ladder ranks, for example getting supply blocked or mismicroing in a silver league is a tiny mistake while in masters it can cost you the game.


Agreed


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can't lose because of a tiny mistake. If you lost because of it that means it was a big mistake and your opponent used it to his advantage therefore outplaying you to win a game. You can't outplay someone and lose. Also the the severity of mistakes changes as you move higher in ladder ranks, for example getting supply blocked or mismicroing in a silver league is a tiny mistake while in masters it can cost you the game.


you're right, but I also kind of agree with him, all he really needed to do was rephrasing "tiny mistake" with "stupid mistake"


----------



## roasty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> The differences between the two are too great to compare really. Broodwar requires alot more skill and such. SC2 is alot more beginner friendly, but gets very challenging when competing at high levels.


I downloaded the SC2 free trial and I love the game. I am still playing with some of the single player elements and like many of you have said SC2 really makes looking at the original a challenge







. I will add my battlenet tag later this afternoon in case any of you want to beat up on a noob







.

Thanks to all who contributed/replied to my post ... +1 for all!


----------



## Alex132

Only thing I dont like in SC1 is the 12-unit selection.


----------



## ntherblast

I noticed something depending on the time of day the skill level of players varies

Also posting on these forums is like a gambling half the time my post will not go through cause it gets stuck at submitting content what a joke do the mods know about this?


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can't lose because of a tiny mistake. If you lost because of it that means it was a big mistake and your opponent used it to his advantage therefore outplaying you to win a game. You can't outplay someone and lose. Also the the severity of mistakes changes as you move higher in ladder ranks, for example getting supply blocked or mismicroing in a silver league is a tiny mistake while in masters it can cost you the game.


maybe phrasing it "tiny" was a mistake, I mean for example I once lost a game because I hit the wrong hot key mid battle and focus fired my banelings on a thor when I thought i had my mutas selected and in magic box position meaning I ended up really struggling (and ultimately failing) to deal with his bio ball. At that stage of the game I was ahead on bases, workers, army and tech I had better scouting info and by any reasonable definition of how well each of us were playing I had him beat coming and going I made 1 error and he was in a position to capitalise on that. He didn't beat me I beat myself if i had simply A-moved my army into his I would have won trying to play properly and secure the win as surely as possible cost me the game.

Was that a tiny mistake? a single key-press and a split second decision failure mid battle while trying to macro and micro all at the same time. The cost of the mistake was by far disproportionate to the mistake itself. These things happen even to the best of the best Accidentally Destroy your own CC with splash damage destroying a rock? have your troops on move command instead of A-move? to mention just a few things i've seen Code S players do in tournament matches.

I'm not saying that you dont deserve to loose games where you make mistakes but it does always hurt much more when you know that you "should" have won.


----------



## ntherblast

There is nothing better than playing zerg and you want to make some more banelings but forget to press tab and since the explode and create banelings are the same key you end up popping 20 banes by accident


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You can't lose because of a tiny mistake. If you lost because of it that means it was a big mistake and your opponent used it to his advantage therefore outplaying you to win a game. You can't outplay someone and lose. Also the the severity of mistakes changes as you move higher in ladder ranks, for example getting supply blocked or mismicroing in a silver league is a tiny mistake while in masters it can cost you the game.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe phrasing it "tiny" was a mistake, I mean for example I once lost a game because I hit the wrong hot key mid battle and focus fired my banelings on a thor when I thought i had my mutas selected and in magic box position meaning I ended up really struggling (and ultimately failing) to deal with his bio ball. At that stage of the game I was ahead on bases, workers, army and tech I had better scouting info and by any reasonable definition of how well each of us were playing I had him beat coming and going I made 1 error and he was in a position to capitalise on that. He didn't beat me I beat myself if i had simply A-moved my army into his I would have won trying to play properly and secure the win as surely as possible cost me the game.
> 
> Was that a tiny mistake? a single key-press and a split second decision failure mid battle while trying to macro and micro all at the same time. The cost of the mistake was by far disproportionate to the mistake itself. These things happen even to the best of the best Accidentally Destroy your own CC with splash damage destroying a rock? have your troops on move command instead of A-move? to mention just a few things i've seen Code S players do in tournament matches.
> 
> I'm not saying that you dont deserve to loose games where you make mistakes but it does always hurt much more when you know that you "should" have won.
Click to expand...

To add to that, I have lost a game because I bymistake pressed G instead of F (sentries). Ergo I did a gaurdian shield instead of a forcefeild and lost the game :I


----------



## DoomDash

boxer vs ganzi game one just blew my mind!!! has anyone watched it???


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> boxer vs ganzi game one just blew my mind!!! has anyone watched it???


NO!!! and i cant. dont have gsl coverage.


----------



## Taiwanese

Hello Everybody,

I purchased Starcraft II last fall and I have yet to touch a real game as of now.. I've played a few bot games and some custom games with my friends..

I REALLY want to start playing this game seriously, I just don't know where to start. It's so hard to know the basics of this game, to know that you can't build this unless you build this or that.. or recommended to have this and that. Main problem is I have no idea what to do when I'm in game.. All I do is build offensive stuff and not the defense... Is there a link which guides you to every single thing step by step from the beginning..

Like an ultimate Starcraft II noob guide? Haha...


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> *Beginner and not-so-beginner resources:*
> 
> Day9 Daily Youtube Channel (*Newbie Tuesdays* and *analysis* of pro replays, for all levels)
> HDStarcraft's Youtube Channel (some guides, commentaries of pro replays)
> Husky's Youtube Channel (some guides, commentaries of pro replays)
> PsyStarcraft's Youtube Channel (commentaries of pro replays and his own games, campaign walkthrough on Brutal)
> Force SC2 Strategy's Youtube channel (beginner, guides to builds and strategies)
> Detailed Units DPS chart
> Liquipedia (SC2 Wiki)
> Starcraft Wikia (SC2 Wiki)
> Ultimate SC2 resources thread on TL (newbies click here)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: More resources (and here)
> 
> 
> 
> Read all the general strategy pages on in this wiki as well as the race-specific strategies on the left column. Learn to use hotkeys and control groups in Nevaziah's guide.
> 
> Learn one or two macro/safe build for each match up and practice it until you have it down perfectly.
> 
> Finally watch all these videos:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Protoss and Terran basics
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Zerg basics
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Refining mechanics
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Refining mechanics #2
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Secrets of hotkeys, APM and mouse mouvements
> Day9 Daily: Back to the basics
> Day9 Daily: Plugging leaks in silver level play
> Day9 Daily: Gold level: fixing the little things
> Day9 Daily: Low level reps - Ingame decision making
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: losing to early pressure
> Day9 Newbie Tuesday: Fighting an early expand
> 
> Protoss coaching videos
> Zerg coaching videos
> Terran coaching videos
> 
> Compilation of guides and videos:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...for_each_race/
> http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...ft_reddit_faq/


^ This


----------



## HometownHero

How does everyone feel about a KoTH tonight?


----------



## DoomDash

I'll try to show up.


----------



## roasty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> How does everyone feel about a KoTH tonight?


Are the KoTH streamed live?


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taiwanese*
> 
> Hello Everybody,
> I purchased Starcraft II last fall and I have yet to touch a real game as of now.. I've played a few bot games and some custom games with my friends..
> I REALLY want to start playing this game seriously, I just don't know where to start. It's so hard to know the basics of this game, to know that you can't build this unless you build this or that.. or recommended to have this and that. Main problem is I have no idea what to do when I'm in game.. All I do is build offensive stuff and not the defense... Is there a link which guides you to every single thing step by step from the beginning..
> Like an ultimate Starcraft II noob guide? Haha...


Just a piece of advice: You will have to dedicate alor of time if you want to be even decent in RTS.

Anyways, there isn't much of anything I can really suggest because its hard without any RTS background.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'll try to show up.


No better way to get back into SC2 then by crushing us in KoTH








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roasty*
> 
> Are the KoTH streamed live?


No, but that would be kind of cool.


----------



## iARDAs

Ok guys I will be purchasing the game tonight.

Blizzards own site is the only place to buy and download digitally right?


----------



## ntherblast

There is nothing better than playing diamond 2v2's and having your ally not tech and mass lings from the first 2minutes to 28mins into the game. He also had 2 expansions and was taking gas kept ordering me around like he was some bigshot(In the end I obviously had twice the amount of units he had) also what is up with those allies that think you need to constantly be on the offensive? For example we kept taking out the enemies expansions while we maintained ours so we were already economically ahead.


----------



## roasty

If anyone decides to livestream please post details !!! Would love to watch.


----------



## CravinR1

I would stream but my quality would suck due to my sucky upload


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I would stream but my quality would suck due to my sucky upload


Hmmmm.. maybe i will when my gtx580 comes in. Is 3mb upload enough?


----------



## roberT_

If I'm around when you guys Koth, then I can stream.

I stream at 720p and it's very smooth.


----------



## NguyenAdam

I can try streaming, but I'm not good at all. Only diamond league level.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thx1138*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ███████ Censored by Mods


dude,
why are you doing that


----------



## CravinR1

mine is only 512 so 3mb should be fine. And if you're streaming a KOTH then you'd be streaming everyone even when you're not playing, and Diamond is pretty dang good (since I'm only plat)


----------



## DoomDash

Meh @ Diamond







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Meh @ Diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah. lol Diamond is still teh sucxxzz. I dont have the time to play. You can look at this seasons game for me and tell that.

\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ link below.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yeah. lol Diamond is still teh sucxxzz. I dont have the time to play. You can look at this seasons game for me and tell that.
> \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ link below.


Surprisingly you have more games played than me this season







. I wish I could link my profile in my sig, but apparently I am a mod enforcing rules magnet.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Surprisingly you have more games played than me this season
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I wish I could link my profile in my sig, but apparently I am a mod enforcing rules magnet.


LOL. that is me trying to have time also. lol!! And no kidding on the mod part.


----------



## Alex132

Holy crap, I am only about ~gold level now on SC2 from taking a 3 month break.......

I was top 8 Diamond that was beating masters ._.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Holy crap, I am only about ~gold level now on SC2 from taking a 3 month break.......
> I was top 8 Diamond that was beating masters ._.


That's a big drop. I'd say I'm at least high Diamond - Low masters with a 6 month break. Can still beat SOEM masters in best of 3's.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Holy crap, I am only about ~gold level now on SC2 from taking a 3 month break.......
> I was top 8 Diamond that was beating masters ._.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a big drop. I'd say I'm at least high Diamond - Low masters with a 6 month break. Can still beat SOEM masters in best of 3's.
Click to expand...

I had/have so much to do that SC2 isn't actually possible anymore, heck I only have played ~5 games this year ._.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I had/have so much to do that SC2 isn't actually possible anymore, heck I only have played ~5 games this year ._.


I am quite busy as well, but a lot of it is other games as well. That and I am working and still have a girlfriend.







We need 48 hour days, and I wish we were good on 2 hours of sleep.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wish we were good on 2 hours of sleep.


I'm usually fine with 3-4 and ridiculous amounts of coffee.

ohdeari'mgonnadiesoyoung...









Other games and passions are distracting me too... (DOW2 Last Stand







almost made it to level 80 with all 7 heroes, DOTA2 etc.). Hardly have the time for other things I like, like reading books...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I had/have so much to do that SC2 isn't actually possible anymore, heck I only have played ~5 games this year ._.
> 
> 
> 
> I am quite busy as well, but a lot of it is other games as well. That and I am working and still have a girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need 48 hour days, and I wish we were good on 2 hours of sleep.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got 5am early runs then school till 3pm, sport till 6pm, get home do homework keep up with bf and go to bed at 9pm. Doesnt leave much time for gaming xD


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yeah, I got 5am early runs then school till 3pm, sport till 6pm, get home do homework keep up with bf and go to bed at 9pm. Doesnt leave much time for gaming xD


Yea me too. I get up at 5a.m. work till 6p.m. get home about 7:30 p.m. then spend time with my wife and son till bed time around 9:30. I only get sundays off.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone know why MMA isn't in GSL this season?


----------



## Anti!!

Not sure. But we will see how he does against dimaga in a minute.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Not sure. But we will see how he does against dimaga in a minute.


Damn I'm going to miss it, have to pick up my gf!


----------



## fashric

Rofl MMA never heard of Dimaga apparently D


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Rofl MMA never heard of Dimaga apparently D


Yea that was funny.

What did you think about liquid zenio saying the IEM map pool sucks for zerg in english? lol!!

Edit: Sigh


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Kinda anti climactic final. Poor dimaga.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Rofl MMA never heard of Dimaga apparently D


Where are you guys getting the cool league icons?


----------



## 13321G4

here

It's in alphabetical order so other leagues are on the other page(s).

Edit:

Apparently only silver <3 is on the other page


----------



## fashric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea that was funny.
> What did you think about liquid zenio saying the IEM map pool sucks for zerg in english? lol!!
> Edit: Sigh
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda anti climactic final. Poor dimaga.


I think most people agree that the map pool wasn't the best and was funny to hear him say it like that.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Ye was a bit of a let down, but its still fun watching a player as good as mma dismantle other top players.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Anyone know why MMA isn't in GSL this season?


He is. MMA and GuMiho advanced from Group E into the Ro16.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303802

GSL is off for the lunar new year if you're wondering why he's traveling in the middle of a tournament.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> I think most people agree that the map pool wasn't the best and was funny to hear him say it like that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Ye was a bit of a let down, but its still fun watching a player as good as mma dismantle other top players.


haha! yea. He was like. Ok, I need to English for this. haha


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Rofl MMA never heard of Dimaga apparently D
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you guys getting the cool league icons?
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea that was funny.
> What did you think about liquid zenio saying the IEM map pool sucks for zerg in english? lol!!
> Edit: Sigh
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda anti climactic final. Poor dimaga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think most people agree that the map pool wasn't the best and was funny to hear him say it like that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Ye was a bit of a let down, but its still fun watching a player as good as mma dismantle other top players.
Click to expand...

You two are doing it wrong:
DoomDash








fashric:









Unless of course you like the black background









In other news, I'm playing terribly atm.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Rofl MMA never heard of Dimaga apparently D
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you guys getting the cool league icons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea that was funny.
> What did you think about liquid zenio saying the IEM map pool sucks for zerg in english? lol!!
> Edit: Sigh
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda anti climactic final. Poor dimaga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think most people agree that the map pool wasn't the best and was funny to hear him say it like that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Ye was a bit of a let down, but its still fun watching a player as good as mma dismantle other top players.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You two are doing it wrong:
> DoomDash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fashric:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless of course you like the black background
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, I'm playing terribly atm.
Click to expand...

same here


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> same here


So am I. I played some 1v1 yesterday before bed in customs. I had a good match with a masters protoss, but lost. I had some good counters that made him crap his pants and respect me, but nothing enough to win. The rest was diamond people and I just lost all night. Sad face..


----------



## ntherblast

How do people check other players stats such as win/losses during a game? I was playing 3v3 and the other team knew what league I was and how many losses I had this was before they patched it so that only masters show w/l


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> How do people check other players stats such as win/losses during a game? I was playing 3v3 and the other team knew what league I was and how many losses I had this was before they patched it so that only masters show w/l


In a league match?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> In a league match?


yes


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> yes


Alt-tab, google a name.


----------



## CravinR1

alt-tab to SC2RANKS.com and look up the exact name


----------



## Anti!!

I wonder how many other RaGingNyDus's there are.


----------



## Anti!!

Hey! Sc2 ain't dead. Keep this thread alive.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hey! Sc2 ain't dead. Keep this thread alive.


I should stick an animated gif of a tumbleweed in the OP...


----------



## DoomDash

Once I cut back the thread died







. I posted most of the posts easily.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Once I cut back the thread died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I posted most of the posts easily.


HOTS should bring some new life... although I have a feeling half my posts will be about Blizzard DOTA then







since I can't really stand DOTA 2's community


----------



## fashric

Starcraft 2 is currently £24.99 on Amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/Starcraft-II-Wings-Liberty-DVD-ROM/dp/B000RE216U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327697455&sr=8-1
Amazing deal for any UK'ers wanting to pick it up.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Starcraft 2 is currently £24.99 on Amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/Starcraft-II-Wings-Liberty-DVD-ROM/dp/B000RE216U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327697455&sr=8-1
> Amazing deal for any UK'ers wanting to pick it up.


I would like to buy an european account. Try my skills there.


----------



## fashric

Not sure where your from but if its the US lag shouldn't be too bad and it should be a good test for you as I've heard the overall skill level is higher on the EU server compared to NA.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> Not sure where your from but if its the US lag shouldn't be too bad and it should be a good test for you as I've heard the overall skill level is higher on the EU server compared to NA.


I can get up to 5000ms going to US. It can be REALLY bad sometimes. Other times I can get like ~600, which isn't really noticeable.


----------



## Anti!!

New parts! YAY ME!

gtx 580 sc

corsair h80

Smashing sc2 Ultra @ 1680x1050 @ 100fps pretty solid in 3v3s. I put vsync back on now though.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> New parts! YAY ME!
> 
> gtx 580 sc
> 
> corsair h80
> 
> Smashing sc2 Ultra @ 1680x1050 @ 100fps pretty solid in 3v3s. I put vsync back on now though.


why 1680x1050? Get a 1920x1080 monitor at least for that 580!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> why 1680x1050? Get a 1920x1080 monitor at least for that 580!


$$$ lol. I barely could afford what I got. I will eventually. Besides I hook it up to my 42in LG sometimes anyway. lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> why 1680x1050? Get a 1920x1080 monitor at least for that 580!
> 
> 
> 
> $$$ lol. I barely could afford what I got. I will eventually. Besides I hook it up to my 42in LG sometimes anyway. lol
Click to expand...

Also why get a 580? They're like the same price as the 7970 ._.
Well at least here theyre both about $1000


----------



## Sainesk

little overkill







a 6870 with a good CPU can handle SC2 on ultra at 1080p. Maybe HOTS will add more eye candy making it more demanding...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> little overkill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a 6870 with a good CPU can handle SC2 on ultra at 1080p. Maybe HOTS will add more eye candy making it more demanding...


I run it on Ultra with ~100fps.

CPU is very important here


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> CPU is very important here


yea for sure, I know my Phenom II at 2.8GHz stock is bearable on 1v1s, but can drop to pretty low FPS in large 4v4 battles. Night 2 Die would make an unrealistic but sweet benchmark test (hint hint Blizzard), makes even my OC 2600K cry when I start getting overwhelmed.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> CPU is very important here
> 
> 
> 
> yea for sure, I know my Phenom II at 2.8GHz stock is bearable on 1v1s, but can drop to pretty low FPS in large 4v4 battles. Night 2 Die would make an unrealistic but sweet benchmark test (hint hint Blizzard), makes even my OC 2600K cry when I start getting overwhelmed.
Click to expand...

My min / max FPS increased GREATLY when I upgraded from my 4.2Ghz Phenom II to my 5Ghz SB


----------



## Anti!!

I got the 580 for 350 shipped thats why. Lol plus amd drivers have got on my last nerve. And i want physx and tesselation.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I got the 580 for 350 shipped thats why. Lol plus amd drivers have got on my last nerve. And i want physx and tesselation.


ATI were the first to do tessellation, in fact my GPU was the first DX11 GPU in the world


----------



## DoomDash

I want a second 580, but I'm waiting to see what keplar is like and people to start selling 580's for cheap because of it.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> ATI were the first to do tessellation, in fact my GPU was the first DX11 GPU in the world


They may have been first to do tesselation, but they suck at it. lol


----------



## Sainesk

hrrm, just noticed we have 2 GMs on OCN now...

who will be third? Doom, Jedi, Vdek, someone else?









I'd shed a tear of joy to see an OCNer in the GSL...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> hrrm, just noticed we have 2 GMs on OCN now...
> who will be third? Doom, Jedi, Vdek, someone else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd shed a tear of joy to see an OCNer in the GSL...


lol!!

Real life calls


----------



## Alex132

Meh I'm back in diamond, disappoited. I did beat some top-8 diamond and a masters but I'm still like rank 80'ish. I should play some more.


----------



## Alex132

To think I started at rank 100 BRONZE to Diamod


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> hrrm, just noticed we have 2 GMs on OCN now...
> who will be third? Doom, Jedi, Vdek, someone else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd shed a tear of joy to see an OCNer in the GSL...


I think I could do it if I really tried but I don't see it happening due to life getting in the way. Jediwin could be grand masters if he tried hard enough and always could have.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think I could do it if I really tried but I don't see it happening due to life getting in the way. Jediwin could be grand masters if he tried hard enough and always could have.


agreed

KOTH!!! My clan and I will be starting to have more 1v1 practices. ANyone is welcome.

Im always in channel overclock.net when online. And our channel ClanDarkSide is always up too.


----------



## Reflux

Check out this awesome custom-engraved mug I won on the SCV Rush stream


















They payed for shipping all the way to Scotland out of their own pockets. Great stream, custom game tournaments, raffles.. everything.

Just thought I'd throw a post out here. I made one on reddit too, I think they totally deserve some publicity so check them out.


----------



## HometownHero

^^ That's a sick mug.

I keep meaning to ladder more too and every week, work seems to find me. Hopefully I will get to go later this week.


----------



## Anti!!

yea, my clan wants to make a sc2 team now. So we have to start practicing 1v1s some now also.

OUr channel is ClanDarkSide . Add a . com on that and you can see our main site. We are mainly a community for fun, but a few wanted to get more serious about it. We will see how far it goes.


----------



## mylilpony

mid/high diamond looking to start playign consistently to get into masters, im Sam and im usually in ocn server, planning on being on more often! pm if you want bnet id


----------



## CravinR1

I used to hate PvT but I stole colMiniguns 1 gate expand and now I've lost 1 of the past 50 and thats cause he dropped when I was out of postion to defend

PvT fe.zip 103k .zip file


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm not sure what minigun does and I can't watch the replay now, but 1 gate FE is probably the best PvT build to use if you know how to execute it.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I used to hate PvT but I stole colMiniguns 1 gate expand and now I've lost 1 of the past 50 and thats cause he dropped when I was out of postion to defend
> 
> PvT fe.zip 103k .zip file


Just finished watching the xel'naga caverns game. You rofl stomped his army...

Might want to think about your 4th (and 3rd) gas timing. Your gas sky rocketed after you took your expansion. (same on antiga shipyard but in the entomed valley game you forgot to put guys in gas for a long time which worked greatly in your favor.)

Also

How does one open 1 replay after another. I open the first replay by just double clicking on it and then SC2 opens to play the replay, but if I want to watch another replay I have to close SC2 down completely and try again...


----------



## 13321G4

While I watch pro's stream I notice that when they are in the late game and they have a dark shrine and templar archives they opt to get high templar archons instead of dark templar archons but I can't figure out why...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> While I watch pro's stream I notice that when they are in the late game and they have a dark shrine and templar archives they opt to get high templar archons instead of dark templar archons but I can't figure out why...


Cause HTs cost less mins, they generally have charge zealots with their archons

** on entombed I was pissed cause the guy was lagging so bad it was like looking at pictures. The lag was horrible no idea why he didn't drop **


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> While I watch pro's stream I notice that when they are in the late game and they have a dark shrine and templar archives they opt to get high templar archons instead of dark templar archons but I can't figure out why...
> 
> 
> 
> Cause HTs cost less mins, they generally have charge zealots with their archons
> 
> ** on entombed I was pissed cause the guy was lagging so bad it was like looking at pictures. The lag was horrible no idea why he didn't drop **
Click to expand...

That's just it, in this stage of the game they have banked up so much that they can only do a full warp in of templars, be it high or dark, but no zealots to accompany them. In stead they opt to mass cannons/ expands. Isn't it wiser to push a few extra archons out and drop cannon or two?
PvZ

**You do see that because you hadn't mined gas you got an extra warp in of stalkers out. Seems beneficial to me. Your gas only dropped when you started HT production.**


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> That's just it, in this stage of the game they have banked up so much that they can only do a full warp in of templars, be it high or dark, but no zealots to accompany them. In stead they opt to mass cannons/ expands. Isn't it wiser to push a few extra archons out and drop cannon or two?
> PvZ
> **You do see that because you hadn't mined gas you got an extra warp in of stalkers out. Seems beneficial to me. Your gas only dropped when you started HT production.**


I dont wish to be rude. And dont take this the wrong way. But are you silver league? And your giving advice on late game macro choices?







or am i missing something?


----------



## CravinR1

I do burn through gas and banking gas early helps when I start colossus and double forge upgrades


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> That's just it, in this stage of the game they have banked up so much that they can only do a full warp in of templars, be it high or dark, but no zealots to accompany them. In stead they opt to mass cannons/ expands. Isn't it wiser to push a few extra archons out and drop cannon or two?
> PvZ
> **You do see that because you hadn't mined gas you got an extra warp in of stalkers out. Seems beneficial to me. Your gas only dropped when you started HT production.**
> 
> 
> 
> I dont wish to be rude. And dont take this the wrong way. But are you silver league? And your giving advice on late game macro choices?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or am i missing something?
Click to expand...

Which is clearly why I'm wrong but I don't know why :-(
Trying to learn here 
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I do burn through gas and banking gas early helps when I start colossus and double forge upgrades


If you are happy with the way your gas incomes works then it's ok, I just thought that you might want to postpone it slightly.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Which is clearly why I'm wrong but I don't know why :-(
> Trying to learn here


ahh, ok. Instead wasting it all on cannons. You make a few more warp gates to allow for the zealots to be warped in at the same time. It also help you spend you money thus better macro. Plus never missing warp ins will help.

Now, if a pro is spending it on cannons it must mean he is getting expos while at or close to a max army. This is also to provide him with time to respond to counter attacks.


----------



## Alex132

Lol Zerg macro <3


----------



## HometownHero

We need a KoTH soon. Anyone going on tonight?


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> We need a KoTH soon. Anyone going on tonight?


I'm on right now! Well, it's minimized but i'm in the channel. if something happens just PM me through battle.net


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> I'm on right now! Well, it's minimized but i'm in the channel. if something happens just PM me through battle.net


Ill be on tonight. Grave yard shift starts sunday night. Gasp!!


----------



## AOwpr

Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in here and say hi. =) A few months after SC2 came out, I was frustrated with the game because I'm used to more complex RTS games (Empire Earth, Rise of Nations, etc.), but DoomDash suggested I stop playing Terran and switch to Zerg instead... and I'm still around, love it and it's pretty much the only game I play these days. Just thought I'd join the OCN group since it's no fun playing alone and most of my real-life friends have moved on to other games.

Edit: Added myself to the OCN division, I play as Andonic, am currently a lowly silver, but think I'm on the verge of a promotion so hopefully that'll change next season.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in here and say hi. =) A few months after SC2 came out, I was frustrated with the game because I'm used to more complex RTS games (Empire Earth, Rise of Nations, etc.), but DoomDash suggested I stop playing Terran and switch to Zerg instead... and I'm still around, love it and it's pretty much the only game I play these days. Just thought I'd join the OCN group since it's no fun playing alone and most of my real-life friends have moved on to other games.
> Edit: Added myself to the OCN division, I play as Andonic, am currently a lowly silver, but think I'm on the verge of a promotion so hopefully that'll change next season.


Sweet stuff! More than welcome to hang around! Just be in the overclock.net channel and you are bound to see one of us.


----------



## perfectblade

Is anyone else pissed that they're taking out carriers in that zerg expansion thing


----------



## AOwpr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Sweet stuff! More than welcome to hang around! Just be in the overclock.net channel and you are bound to see one of us.


Will do... is that an IRC channel or something else though?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> Will do... is that an IRC channel or something else though?


Im not sure what irc is but its a sc2 in game channel. "Private channel"

Also feel free to add me up







.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Is anyone else pissed that they're taking out carriers in that zerg expansion thing


Nobody uses them and they didnt feel like balancing them also the game isn't out yet so they can still revert changes


----------



## poroboszcz

I use carriers frequently.


----------



## connectwise

For those that pay attention to korean gsl scene, who won the gsl tourney in jan? Or is it still on going?


----------



## TiffTaro

Hello I just joined OCN :3 Starcraft has been my game of choice since 1998. I'm 100% Zerg. But sometimes I play toss or even terran.

I used to be good back in '98~2000. Now i'm out of practice and rusty.

As soon as my new computer is built I can't wait to jump back into SC!!

Also when I play toss I use carriers. Not always but i do like them. I am pissed.


----------



## AOwpr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Im not sure what irc is but its a sc2 in game channel. "Private channel"
> Also feel free to add me up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ah cool, joined the channel but it seems to be empty atm, I'll make sure to enter whenever I'm online for extended periods. And added you, though would appear you're a bit above my level haha.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> For those that pay attention to korean gsl scene, who won the gsl tourney in jan? Or is it still on going?


Ongoing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=310040. Unless I misunderstand how they organize...


----------



## Anti!!

Working nights or i would be on.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Can't wait to play this game again.. will be 11 months without it by the time I get my rig.


----------



## axellerate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> For those that pay attention to korean gsl scene, who won the gsl tourney in jan? Or is it still on going?


Hm.

R08 as of now consists of...

DRG vs Parting

MMA vs Alive

MC vs Genius

Ghumio vs Puzzle


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I use carriers frequently.


Yeah carriers are so cool. They're not that great in sc2, especially compared to collossus. On the other hand, protoss air in general is kind of crap right now. They need to make protoss air relevant in the expansion.

I wish they would just buff carriers instead of taking them out.


----------



## 13321G4

I enjoy my PvP where I start with chrono-boosted phoenixes to harass (6-8) and then transition into carrier.







(Also add a robo for a warp prism while going for colossi . )

I believe that the interceptors should have 1 small (tiny) AOE/splash damage that stacks in size (max 4x) if the attacks are in rapid succession. (Gravitic catapult?)


----------



## HometownHero

Just got tickets for MLG Columbus for Valentines Day from the gf.









Anyone else planning on going?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I enjoy my PvP where I start with chrono-boosted phoenixes to harass (6-8) and then transition into carrier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Also add a robo for a warp prism while going for colossi . )


Forever Silver


----------



## CravinR1

I enjoy my PVP where I :

9 pylon
10 gate
chrono 2 probes and add assimilator 12-13
get cybernetics as soon as gate finishes
chrono once more on probes, make ONLY 18 probes and mine ONLY 50 gas then pull from gas back to minerals

Then drop 3 more gates (4 total) then start dropping 5-6 pylons in opponents base and chrono warp

End result = 4 x zealots in min line at 5:45 gg

After first warp in of 4 zealots I put 3 probes back on gas and start back making probes, then warp in 4 more zealots next cycle and start getting stalkers to prevent them from kiting.

IF they are able to hold it off you should be so far ahead its not even funny.

Here is the original version of the build, but i've since modified it to the above

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlO-oUaMGFs


----------



## AOwpr

Just linked that to my toss friend who mentioned he didn't really know what to do in PvP.









By the way, I'm going to buy a GSL season ticket... just not sure if it's worth going with season 1 or season 2, searched around Team Liquid and couldn't find a straight answer as to when season 1 ends. Any of you guys know?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> Just linked that to my toss friend who mentioned he didn't really know what to do in PvP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, I'm going to buy a GSL season ticket... just not sure if it's worth going with season 1 or season 2, searched around Team Liquid and couldn't find a straight answer as to when season 1 ends. Any of you guys know?


Just wait for season two. Season one is almost over.


----------



## NguyenAdam

Hey guys, I'm gonna start streaming soon, but I'm having some difficulties. I set my stream at 720 resolution at 60 fps and it gets choppy in game. I also set it to 30 FPS and it results in the same thing. Do any of you use Xsplit to stream and can help me out?


----------



## CravinR1

If anyone is on can you check out my twitch.tv account and tell me how it looks?

nvm its horrible for now, lots of blinking with the new update


----------



## ntherblast

Did anyone get their feat of strength for what league you finished last season? I haven't and this seems to be a reoccurring issue


----------



## CravinR1

Finally got the streaming to look ok so long as its in windowed mode (I hate windowed mode)

I thought I had started streaming earlier but I guess by the time it logged in this is where it started

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/308571660

OK i played another PvT, this one I started the xsplit before the game. I know the quality isn't fantastic but my upload is only 512k so its hard to stream high quality and not lag in sc. This guy is diamond now but was Diamond last season ?

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/308575409


----------



## ntherblast

Umm i am in diamond and players have 1-2 wins only and have 80+ points how is this possible?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Umm i am in diamond and players have 1-2 wins only and have 80+ points how is this possible?


Bonus pool + beating someone favored (I once got 42 points with bonus pool)

They probably had a lower MMR and when they won they beat someone favored


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Bonus pool + beating someone favored (I once got 42 points with bonus pool)
> They probably had a lower MMR and when they won they beat someone favored


This dude has 1 win with 82 points explain that please. The new season just begun so i dont think that bonus pool would be more than 8


----------



## CravinR1

Link to profile in sc2ranks ?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Link to profile in sc2ranks ?


Hey, cravin r1. Your stream seems to run smooth. Just your sound is way low.

Another thing. I run windowed mode also, but i do it full screen. And for a silver your timing seem crisp. At the beginning at least.









Also, you waste money on gateways, and pylons. lol


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hey, cravin r1. Your stream seems to run smooth. Just your sound is way low.
> Another thing. I run windowed mode also, but i do it full screen. And for a silver your timing seem crisp. At the beginning at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you waste money on gateways, and pylons. lol


Hmm I'll turn the sound up some, but I use the boom mic that came with my P5B Deluxe which is on top of my monitor. My SC2 sound is at 5%







I also run windowed full screen but for some reason the top/bottom scrolling doesn't work? Please tell me what i'm doing wrong if I can fix this i'd be happy !!

And I'm actually Platinum lol Just been playing on my brothers account (have 2 brothers, so access to 3 accounts since they don't play anymore)
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1900343/1/Cravin/

And I only do that vs Terran when I'm a base or 2 up on them and am at or close to 200 supply







(the pylon/gates)

In case you didn't know I played around with the DTs on the Thor producing Terran. I've been playing high gold so have to throw some games so I don't get promoted (already been promoted to gold twice last season and had to go on a losing spree to stay in silver)


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> This dude has 1 win with 82 points explain that please. The new season just begun so i dont think that bonus pool would be more than 8


Its happening on my end too. This guy is purposely losing to demote himself and hes #1 in my division. He has 79 points with two wins.


----------



## CravinR1

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/308601788

Mic is too loud now isn't it ? What about the music/game sounds ?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Placed in Plat again this season... kinda disappointed with myself because I was aiming for Diamond, with 600 points in season 5 (I think I need 800 to get promoted). So I guess winning 20 or so games in a row will get me promoted.


----------



## Anti!!

Just maintain a winning average and you will get there.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/308601788
> Mic is too loud now isn't it ? What about the music/game sounds ?


As for you. Your mic was a tad to loud yes.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I love macro ZvZ's in Platinum. It's so easy after that initial <30 supply ling bling bull because no one ever knows how to play a macro ZvZ, everyone just tries to ling you out.


----------



## HometownHero

Is anyone else unable to download maps for 4v4 and 1v1? I cant quick match for 1s and 4s for some reason because it tells me there was an error downloading Cloud Kingdom and District 10.


----------



## AOwpr

^My roommate had a similar issue, couldn't access quickmatch.


----------



## HometownHero

Apparently its a common problem and Blizzard is trying to blame ISPs? That makes no sense especially considering the fact that season 6 started 2 days ago...


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> I love macro ZvZ's in Platinum. It's so easy after that initial <30 supply ling bling bull because no one ever knows how to play a macro ZvZ, everyone just tries to ling you out.


Happens in Diamond too....

THey always go mass lings and if it fails they try and go into macro game where i usually win. That said, if they 10 pool mass ling me i usually lose....or if they never let up with the pressure.


----------



## Anti!!

Yeah, i hate that kinda zvz.

It just ticks me off. Because of that I am totally lost in late games. I completely hate that match up.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Is anyone else unable to download maps for 4v4 and 1v1? I cant quick match for 1s and 4s for some reason because it tells me there was an error downloading Cloud Kingdom and District 10.


Found this on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ps53r/for_those_who_cant_download_maps_or_login/

_"Something is going on which isn't allowing certain clients or ISP's (Blizzard is "investigating") to download the updated cache files for the new maps.

I was having the same problem and have come across the fix. A user VPN'd and downloaded the latest cache files for 1v1 and 2v2. Other modes will not work until Blizzard fixes this. "_

Might be worth a shot.


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yeah, i hate that kinda zvz.
> It just ticks me off. Because of that I am totally lost in late games. I completely hate that match up.


Try PvP! haha.


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> Try PvP! haha.


There was a picture on line with the mirror matchups (can't find it)

TvT: Chess
PvP: Rock paper scissors
ZvZ: street brawl.

Though zvz is pretty rock paper scissors too, just more hectic


----------



## ntherblast

Why do i keep getting silver 1v1 allies in diamond 2v2?


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Why do i keep getting silver 1v1 allies in diamond 2v2?


Because thats the majority of people that play.


----------



## AOwpr

Never random your 2v2's, it's just an all-round bad experience.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> Try PvP! haha.


At least i wouldnt have to worry about larva spending. lol.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> Try PvP! haha.
> 
> 
> 
> At least i wouldnt have to worry about larva spending. lol.
Click to expand...

I haven't won a PvP since S4.... hate it. Yet I love ZvZ, because I use odd tactics, ie 14 hatch against 9 pool and still win, barely though








Plus roaches in ZvZ = God. They are perfect walls against banes too, and getting burrow can be deadly as not many get out an overseer early-ish on. Move them into the mineral line and do a shneaky attack can be nice.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I haven't won a PvP since S4.... hate it. Yet I love ZvZ, because I use odd tactics, ie 14 hatch against 9 pool and still win, barely though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus roaches in ZvZ = God. They are perfect walls against banes too, and getting burrow can be deadly as not many get out an overseer early-ish on. Move them into the mineral line and do a shneaky attack can be nice.


lol. in masters high diamond if you have time to get burrow and crawl you got mutas in your base already.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I haven't won a PvP since S4.... hate it. Yet I love ZvZ, because I use odd tactics, ie 14 hatch against 9 pool and still win, barely though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus roaches in ZvZ = God. They are perfect walls against banes too, and getting burrow can be deadly as not many get out an overseer early-ish on. Move them into the mineral line and do a shneaky attack can be nice.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. in masters high diamond if you have time to get burrow and crawl you got mutas in your base already.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that... I'll have to ask my friend. But I am pretty sure if your opponent go for a early aggressive build you can get burrow roaches out before then and have enough AA to deal with mutas


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Not so sure about that... I'll have to ask my friend. But I am pretty sure if your opponent go for a early aggressive build you can get burrow roaches out before then and have enough AA to deal with mutas


So basically you all in every zvz is what your telling me. Lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Not so sure about that... I'll have to ask my friend. But I am pretty sure if your opponent go for a early aggressive build you can get burrow roaches out before then and have enough AA to deal with mutas
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you all in every zvz is what your telling me. Lol
Click to expand...

Very much the opposite, I love to macro. I mean if my opponent goes for early aggression.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Very much the opposite, I love to macro. I mean if my opponent goes for early aggression.


ahh ok


----------



## TopazPie

I don't really dislike any of the mirror matchups. Even PvP has some pretty cool strategies that are pretty viable to get out of the 4gate-4gate habit. My favorite mirror to play is TvT though, so many options.


----------



## poroboszcz

PvP is pretty good at the moment imo. There's a lot of viable strats and expansions are taken much more often: immortal expand, immortal+warp prism, colossus, fast stargate, obs+blink, chargelot+archon are all being used. ZvZ is terrible though. It's like ling/bling vs roach into muta vs infestor. every time.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> PvP is pretty good at the moment imo. There's a lot of viable strats and expansions are taken much more often: immortal expand, immortal+warp prism, colossus, fast stargate, obs+blink, chargelot+archon are all being used. ZvZ is terrible though. It's like ling/bling vs roach into muta vs infestor. every time.


Amen to that..


----------



## ntherblast

I can't stand mirror matchups especially pvp it is basically who gets collosus first wins


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I can't stand mirror matchups especially pvp it is basically who gets collosus first wins


pvp has evolved surprisingly enough.


----------



## Alex132

I just went on a nice roll;

















The game I lost I decided to go for carriers but got swamped by mass stalker


----------



## AOwpr

^baller, someone's getting masters sooner than later.


----------



## HometownHero

You must be playing on EU, Alex


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You must be playing on EU, Alex


I don't get it? Pretty sure Europe is harder than US


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You must be playing on EU, Alex


EU is harder for upper diamond, NA has a harder plat / low dia range.


----------



## lone1dog

I dont know if this is the right place to post this but here goes. I finally after waiting a year bought Starcraft II off of ebay for $20. It came from a reputable seller and had a best buy sticker on it, which indicates a return. I inspected the packaging and disk all was in the box and the disk is in excellent condition. Tryed to install 4 times from the disk and at 90% it would give an error code 5 ,I called customer support they were very helpful but could never get it to install from dvd. So I have been downloading after registration.

I have a liteon dvd burner with light scribe. Do I need to upgrade to a better drive? A blueray burner drive to get it to read these newer dvds ?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lone1dog*
> 
> I dont know if this is the right place to post this but here goes. I finally after waiting a year bought Starcraft II off of ebay for $20. It came from a reputable seller and had a best buy sticker on it, which indicates a return. I inspected the packaging and disk all was in the box and the disk is in excellent condition. Tryed to install 4 times from the disk and at 90% it would give an error code 5 ,I called customer support they were very helpful but could never get it to install from dvd. So I have been downloading after registration.
> 
> I have a liteon dvd burner with light scribe. Do I need to upgrade to a better drive? A blueray burner drive to get it to read these newer dvds ?


You can download the starter edition from Blizzard ( https://us.battle.net/account/sc2/starter-edition/ ) and download that, once finished you simply enter your FULL account details in and you will load the game normally. The starter edition is simply an account-restricted thing, not the actual game. The starter edition download is in fact the full game.

But one thing I want to know, how on earth did you buy it from eBay? Second-hand is impossible unless he/she gave you their account details.


----------



## CravinR1

I bought a key from a seller here on OCN and my brother had the collectors edition

I burned his disk to my HD as a .iso and installed from the iso.

But as stated above if you have a unregistered full game and create a account (or the details of the account associated with the game) you can login and dload the game client

** I also have a 20x Liteon DVDRW with Litescribe and copied the iso fine **


----------



## lone1dog

The seller said it was functional and a good key. But had been opened. I took a chance because they were a reputable seller. I got it in couldnt install completely from the dvd. I called blizard support they walked me through registration and I eneterd my key and have it registered now to me , the key was good. The tech told me to just download the game with all the updates now I have a registered account for the game. So I have been downloading for ever. Just wanted to figure out why the dvd wont install with out downloading?

Well I saved the download on my storage drives. Now its updating and patching. I guess all is good.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lone1dog*
> 
> The seller said it was functional and a good key. But had been opened. I took a chance because they were a reputable seller. I got it in couldnt install completely from the dvd. I called blizard support they walked me through registration and I eneterd my key and have it registered now to me , the key was good. The tech told me to just download the game with all the updates now I have a registered account for the game. So I have been downloading for ever. Just wanted to figure out why the dvd wont install with out downloading?


No clue, maybe there is a scratch or a few scratches on the disk?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> EU is harder for upper diamond, NA has a harder plat / low dia range.


True dat, true dat


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> EU is harder for upper diamond, NA has a harder plat / low dia range.


It doesn't even make sense.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I just went on a nice roll;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The game I lost I decided to go for carriers but got swamped by mass stalker


I am also on a nice roll


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> EU is harder for upper diamond, NA has a harder plat / low dia range.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

It's how I've felt it, plus the lag to NA actually makes things a lot harder than they should be for me. Especially with Force-fields .-.


----------



## CravinR1

Any toss player care to give me some pointers on my build, thinking in PvZ ?

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/308601788

Sorry mic is so loud


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> It's how I've felt it, plus the lag to NA actually makes things a lot harder than they should be for me. Especially with Force-fields .-.


I can't comment on the difference as I didn't ladder on NA, but if low diamond was harder on NA, then low diamond NA player would be high diamond EU player right? But you also say that high diamond is harder on EU. So a high diamond EU player would be like low masters NA player. Which means that low diamond NA player would be a low master NA player.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I can't comment on the difference as I didn't ladder on NA, but if low diamond was harder on NA, then low diamond NA player would be high diamond EU player right? But you also say that high diamond is harder on EU. So a high diamond EU player would be like low masters NA player. Which means that low diamond NA player would be a low master NA player.


THIS! hahah funny stuff.

I have dropped from high diamond to plat for some reason. lol. Well, not some reason. I just dont play. But anyway. platinum is so funny. haha


----------



## HarrisLam

ROFL.....Where all my terran brethrens go?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ROFL.....Where all my terran brethrens go?


Busy getting nerfed


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Busy getting nerfed


oh man....don't even get me started on that one.....

That nerf about the snipe was way harsh, WAYYY harsh


----------



## Twistacles

Personally I was never a huge user of ghosts anyway, I just tried to bulldoze my way through with pure Marine,Tank,Thor,Viking,Medivac...which is what we'll all have to do now


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Personally I was never a huge user of ghosts anyway, I just tried to bulldoze my way through with pure Marine,Tank,Thor,Viking,Medivac...which is what we'll all have to do now


the nerf was to specifically target the effectiveness of ghosts against broodlords and ultralisks. Blizzard said it themselves.

which led me to ask "do terran really win more than they lose against zerg IN LATE GAME where there are already broodlords and ultralisks?"

seriously?

I don't know man, I'm pretty noob myself, maybe idra is the only good zerg player around that can deal with terran in late game and I just happen to watch too much of his play?

Now that ghost snipes are pretty worthless, I guess multiple drops would be the next best solution of this?

but if you think about it it's not really a solution, it just basically forces the zerg player to do something else instead of rolling in and killing you


----------



## Twistacles

It depends. For the layman like us, generally lategame Zerg will kill us. At the top level, though, Terrans could mass up 10-15 ghosts and have so many snipes they could down the entire zerg army in seconds, which wasn't balanced. I still think an increase of energy for snipe or a 8-10dmg reduction would've been better, but whatever.

Now we just have to be more careful, spread out our vikings, make more of them and try to use ghosts for emp. (Which I never really do anyway, in TvZ)

if they go corrupter broodlord muta tho..LOLGG


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> It depends. For the layman like us, generally lategame Zerg will kill us. At the top level, though, Terrans could mass up 10-15 ghosts and have so many snipes they could down the entire zerg army in seconds, which wasn't balanced. I still think an increase of energy for snipe or a 8-10dmg reduction would've been better, but whatever.
> Now we just have to be more careful, spread out our vikings, make more of them and try to use ghosts for emp. (Which I never really do anyway, in TvZ)
> if they go corrupter broodlord muta tho..LOLGG


ill take a energy increase over a dmg reduction anyday

I mean, zerg is one thing

but 45 dmg is also a magic number


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> the nerf was to specifically target the effectiveness of ghosts against broodlords and ultralisks. Blizzard said it themselves.
> which led me to ask "do terran really win more than they lose against zerg IN LATE GAME where there are already broodlords and ultralisks?"
> seriously?
> I don't know man, I'm pretty noob myself, maybe idra is the only good zerg player around that can deal with terran in late game and I just happen to watch too much of his play?
> Now that ghost snipes are pretty worthless, I guess multiple drops would be the next best solution of this?
> but if you think about it it's not really a solution, it just basically forces the zerg player to do something else instead of rolling in and killing you


QXC's solution that he posted on TL sounds perfect for what Blizzard wants to do and I dont understand why they wouldnt reduce snipe damage to massive units only. Considering the only massive units they can snipe are Ultras and BLs.


----------



## Sainesk

Updated with 1.4.3

No Zerg changes, cept Terran players should be slightly easier to beat now









also, do you guys reckon I should make a separate thread for Blizzard DOTA? it could get a little confusing in here if it turns out to be popular and half the people post about SC, and the other half about Bliz' custom DOTA game.


----------



## Anti!!

Yea, i think i it will be a hit. So, yea. We dont need more clutter. haha


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Where are people getting these league badges as their forum avatars? I would love to put my league and ranking as my avatar.


----------



## aoya

For those that game on multi-monitor setups: I plan on playing sc2 on one screen while doing other things on other screens (like managing music, seeing if e-mails come in, etc.). Do any of you that do this play with/without mouse contain? Any thoughts?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Where are people getting these league badges as their forum avatars? I would love to put my league and ranking as my avatar.


Here: http://galeria.starcraft2.hu/thumbnails.php?album=141

Thanks to RlndVt for the link...

click on the one you want and right click save as on the transparent background image.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Here: http://galeria.starcraft2.hu/thumbnails.php?album=141
> Thanks to RlndVt for the link...
> click on the one you want and right click save as on the transparent background image.


Sweet, thanks!

Rockin' my new Platinum avatar now


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Updated with 1.4.3
> No Zerg changes, cept Terran players should be slightly easier to beat now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, do you guys reckon I should make a separate thread for Blizzard DOTA? it could get a little confusing in here if it turns out to be popular and half the people post about SC, and the other half about Bliz' custom DOTA game.


I don't know. I guess a lot of sc2 people will be playing it at least casually, so maybe it's not necessary to make a separate thread. Also this thread is not nearly as active as it used to be.

Since we didn't have any balance discussion in a while, what are your thoughts on new maps and patch?

From protoss perspective I think Clound Kingdom is great. In PvZ it's easy to FFE and wall-off with 3 buildings plus the high ground from the main makes it really easy to hold early all-ins. In PvT it seems to be 1/1/1 proof with long main to main distance and it's easy to defend your main + 3rd from drops with the way they are laid out.

Korhal Compound seems ok for PvT, but I find it really hard against zerg. I think I lost all but one PvZ's I played on this map so far.

Don't have an opinion about the patch tbh, since I don't feel it really affects my play. My only hope is that phoenix buff will make mutas less popular in PvZ.


----------



## sepheroth003

Unfortunately Wow doesn't work in Afghanistan... so I hopped back on SC2. I beta tested, and played in season 1 and 2, I was diamond or plat 1v1 in season 1, but never felt I was really that good. Got a couple questions.

-Any tips for scouting? Like what units to use. It's easy in the beginning of the game with a worker but later I'm always unsure how far to take units, and how much to risk doing so.
-Any good guides on counters? If I do get the scouting correct and find the units their going for, I obviously need to know how to counter well.
-Hotkeys. I saw on Team Liquid there was a custom file you could download to give you more hotkeys than just the numbers. Can you do this without a download?

SC2 is a lot of fun, I probably quit playing for two reasons. 1-Addicted to wow, 2-I wasnt nearly as good as my 2v2 partner.

Thanks for any tips. (BTW a lot of the beginner guides on here are blocked from the network here)


----------



## HarrisLam

at least you got a partner, bro

I've always tried to make friends in the game that play teams, so far it doesnt work out well at all because of my weird schedule (lives in SEA, can only play at midnight - 2am, and thats around what, 9-11am in US?)

just not a great time to game in both time zones lol

but at least I'm finally beating the randomness of random teams (you know, crap teammates or ones that don't co-op) and slowly making progress towards plat in NA

I won't get to team's plat in SEA as easily though, not sure about other levels of play, but SEA players from silver - plat are quite a bit more hardcore than NA players. Think the major reason of that is the ratio of causal players in NA region being higher (so they occupy the lower leagues)


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Unfortunately Wow doesn't work in Afghanistan... so I hopped back on SC2. I beta tested, and played in season 1 and 2, I was diamond or plat 1v1 in season 1, but never felt I was really that good. Got a couple questions.
> -Any tips for scouting? Like what units to use. It's easy in the beginning of the game with a worker but later I'm always unsure how far to take units, and how much to risk doing so.
> -Any good guides on counters? If I do get the scouting correct and find the units their going for, I obviously need to know how to counter well.
> -Hotkeys. I saw on Team Liquid there was a custom file you could download to give you more hotkeys than just the numbers. Can you do this without a download?
> SC2 is a lot of fun, I probably quit playing for two reasons. 1-Addicted to wow, 2-I wasnt nearly as good as my 2v2 partner.
> Thanks for any tips. (BTW a lot of the beginner guides on here are blocked from the network here)


Matters what race you are playing you can usually tell what build the other player is going when you first scout with a worker but they could be trying to trick you. If you are zerg you should have sent an ol close to his base from the start and at around 6-7mins you want to check again with that ol to confirm his build. With terran you can just scan or depending on who you are facing make a hellion for harrass while checking i dont really think a reaper is a good idea they take too much time to build. For toss you can make an observer or hallucinate phenoixs


----------



## sepheroth003

I disagree about seeing the build with your first worker. Especially if they are teching, they will have their first units out to harrass your worker, esp against terran when I marine will just kill your worker. Against Protoss you can kite really well, and a little less so against zerg.

So I assume scouting at the 6-7 minute mark really depends on your build.

I really need to just learn some of the basic builds again, but honestly my macro is so bad right now thats my main focus.

What about the hotkeys, any recommendations there?

Also, I don't have a partner anymore, nor could I play competively with this internet here in Afghanistan. My partner got addicted to wow worse than I did.


----------



## poroboszcz

What race do you play? Also you need a build to learn macro (unless your'e zerg).


----------



## 13321G4

I was wondering if someone would be interested in coaching me through a FFE. I'm having difficulties with decision making. Am I supposed to cut probes? What should I Chronoboost? Must I cut buildings?

My instinct says keep building my basic buildings (forge cannon gateway cybernetics-core pylons) and constantly build & cb probes.

Result:

FFE Constant Probe Production and CB.zip 5k .zip file


(EU server)


----------



## Dr216

been a while since i played sc2 and toss and ffe were never realy my thing but. As I understand it and anyone can correct me if im wrong.

FFE is a reactive/defensive build your looking to gain an economic lead so probe production never stops. so your build order will be something like. chrono boost i think should be on probes the whole time but if your more agressive you may want to save some for your warp tech.

10scout > 13 forge > 17 nexus > 17 cannon > 17 gateway, then a zealot to finish your wall.

at this point you should start pumping out your core more gates etc

Also positioning is key with this build you want to be at the bottom of your main ramp and ideally in a possition to wall off your nat (assuming the map allows this) if not then ffe really isnt the ideal build as a more mobile defense say 3 gate expand.

General rule of thumb is unless you aiming for a tight timming window (4gate for example) and you have your build mapped out perfectly you should always be building probes. if your not good enough to know when you should cut them then you should never cut them


----------



## 13321G4

Wouldn't you then be cutting probe production at 17 probes?


----------



## Dr216

honestly i dont remember the build that well I played random and I only ever used ffe on extreamly big maps vs zerg so my numbers could be A way off B totally outdated. If memory serves you need to get that wall up pretty quick to stop ling running by so yes you do cut a probe or two, But honestly sub plat/diamond level just keep building the probes and get your building slightly later timming will not be that tight or that predictable. chances are if he was gonna harrass early with lings he'd have gone for an early cheese.

if you really want to be advanced about it you should vary those build times based on what you see with you 9/10 scout.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yes you cut probes at 17 to put down cannon, gateway and forge. Also you don't usually chrono probes after this point to be able to afford buildings and later spend chrono on wg research and upgrades. You also need to scout whether zerg is taking an early third and watch out for baneling busts, roach busts and nydus all-ins. In general any time you see he takes gas before expo, you should be cautious. and, if denied scouting, put a second cannon just in case. To be honest though until you get higher in the leagues I'd recommend 3 gate expand as a safer and easier PvZ opening.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yes you cut probes at 17 to put down cannon, gateway and forge. Also you don't usually chrono probes after this point to be able to afford buildings and later spend chrono on wg research and upgrades. You also need to scout whether zerg is taking an early third and watch out for baneling busts, roach busts and nydus all-ins. In general any time you see he takes gas before expo, you should be cautious. and, if denied scouting, put a second cannon just in case. To be honest though until you get higher in the leagues I'd recommend 3 gate expand as a safer and easier PvZ opening.












In all seriousness, I am a player that loves to use air units as much as possible. Had I played Terran I would always open cloaked banshees, if zerg Mutalisk would have been the basis of all my plays, but I choose Protoss so I am trying to revolve my openings around Star-gate tech. Only in PvT do I have to resort to different units (templars are awesome).

My PvZ opening currently resolves around setting up a fast expand and then killing queens and overlords with Phoenixes. With a FFE I can combine it very nicely with a fast +1 zealot push. How ever a 3 gate FE and then to transition into Star-gate tech does not sound like something that would work.


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Can't remember that last time I opened TvT without Banshees. Air units force your opponent into a defensive position.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> My PvZ opening currently resolves around setting up a fast expand and then killing queens and overlords with Phoenixes. With a FFE I can combine it very nicely with a fast +1 zealot push. How ever a 3 gate FE and then to transition into Star-gate tech does not sound like something that would work.


3 gate isnt a FE build its a natural timing for an expand, as such its much safer but the rewards are less..... if a decent Z see's you go ffe and there isnt a big travel distance between your bases then he will go for a roach timing and punish you hard.


----------



## CravinR1

Anyone care to let me know what you do vs Terrans who turtle into thors + rines + ghosts ? I've won 2 and lost 1 PvT vs my Plat friend.

MLG Shattered Temple (4) PvT Mavrick.zip 90k .zip file


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I was wondering if someone would be interested in coaching me through a FFE. I'm having difficulties with decision making. Am I supposed to cut probes? What should I Chronoboost? Must I cut buildings?
> My instinct says keep building my basic buildings (forge cannon gateway cybernetics-core pylons) and constantly build & cb probes.
> Result:
> 
> FFE Constant Probe Production and CB.zip 5k .zip file
> 
> (EU server)


I just played a PvZ vs a gold zerg and here is the replay of my build. I don't really pay attention I just have a flow with my FFE in PvZ

The Shattered Temple (70) PvZ gold.zip 38k .zip file


----------



## NguyenAdam

I gave up SC2 for Lent. I was so close to Masters too.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NguyenAdam*
> 
> I gave up SC2 for Lent. I was so close to Masters too.


What is lent?


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> What is lent?


Are you being serious or???


----------



## CravinR1

Never heard of Lent either

But google is OP
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *google*
> Games which were specifically created for works of fiction, or which otherwise originated in fiction.
> The Game of Lent (parody of The Game of Life) - The Simpsons


----------



## NguyenAdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Never heard of Lent either
> But google is OP


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> What is lent?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+lent%3F&l=1


----------



## CravinR1

Who would consider a game something dear to you, I saw the above when I googled but it didn't make sense


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Lent: giving up Starcraft II because somehow it'll make you closer to god


----------



## Fortunex

Only heard of lent yesterday, makes me laugh though, especially when people give up something like soda or chocolate.


----------



## ntherblast

I think he is shocked because all his friends/family know about it so he expects the entire world/internet users to know it?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I think he is shocked because all his friends/family know about it so he expects the entire world/internet users to know it?


Considering there are 2.1 billion Christians worldwide, including ~78% of both the US and Canada (thanks Wikipedia), it's pretty reasonable to think that people would know what Lent is.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Only heard of lent yesterday, makes me laugh though, especially when people give up something like soda or chocolate.


I'm not really religious myself, but let's at least be considerate.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anyone care to let me know what you do vs Terrans who turtle into thors + rines + ghosts ?


I've not watched the replay as im at work, but what i do vs a turtle terran, is to macro like crazy keep expanding and overbuilding production facilities. Keep him contained then when he does push out trade armies, you may well loose your first one but you can get right back up to 200 food again with the crazy numbers of gates you should have built and you can far more afford to loose your army than he can, after that its just a matter of time.

Also high templar storms and sniping with feedback.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> I'm not really religious myself, but let's at least be considerate.


Why? Religion isn't exempt from criticism.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Why? Religion isn't exempt from criticism.


firstly discussion of religion is not allowed on ocn so i'd drop it.

secondly.

Just becuase you dont understand something doesn't make it stupid, as long as what someone is doing doesn't infringe on or damage your life in any significant way then really being a French shower about it is completely unnecessary. You may not understand it but to out right say something you dont understand is stupid is plain rude.

I'm not religious but i can respect other peoples beliefs same as im not Gay or black/jewish/asian/hispanic but I still believe that all people regardless of age sex religion etc have the same right to be treated with respect.


----------



## 13321G4

Because this a not a religious thread. I would however like to state that I had also never heard of "Lent".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I just played a PvZ vs a gold zerg and here is the replay of my build. I don't really pay attention I just have a flow with my FFE in PvZ
> 
> The Shattered Temple (70) PvZ gold.zip 38k .zip file


Notice how high your chrono-boost gets. Also one rule I have learned about FFE is that you get both your gasses once you put down your gateway.

I just tried the same building order as that you had but without cutting any probes and gasses before cannon. It seems very, very economical, but I have zero units for very long. Could put down more cannons easily though.

Nexus first Constant probies.zip 7k .zip file


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Because this a not a religious thread. I would however like to state that I had also never heard of "Lent".
> Notice how high your chrono-boost gets. Also one rule I have learned about FFE is that you get both your gasses once you put down your gateway.
> I just tried the same building order as that you had but without cutting any probes and gasses before cannon. It seems very, very economical, but I have zero units for very long. Could put down more cannons easily though.
> 
> Nexus first Constant probies.zip 7k .zip file


I'm going to watch the replay now, but from the way it sounds with your build if he does a 2 base ling/roach all in you'd not be able to stop it. And yeah 2 gasses are generally better but the chrono you got to save.

I seem to do Nexus before forge on most big maps, I just see how it feels when i'm scouting.

Here is a Nexus first ffe that I held off a 2 base roach/ling early push, he was gold rank 12

Shakuras Plateau (76).zip 43k .zip file


Watched the replay:

Why did you type your build ....... that was a waste of time

The constant probes delayed your expo by about 40 seconds, which I could've caught up in probes but was getting my infrastructure down
You should've taken his Xel'Naga to see his units sooner

You're lucky your opponent was bad, 2 pylons before expo or forge? I drop a 15 nexus and a 16 or 17 forge and you should've put your gate beside your forge to make the lings run around the forge+gate to give the canon time to hit them more.

Your build/probe without planning to play:

13 @ 2 min
18 @ 3 min only 2 pylons
3:21 Nexus goes down 3:32 forge
21 @ 4 min
25 @ 5
31 @ 6

My build/probe winning the game:
12 @ 2 min
2:43 Nexus 2:58 Forge
15 @ 3 min
18 @ 4 min
23 @ 5 min
28 @ 6 min + 3 gates


----------



## 13321G4

Whoops meant to edit but ok:

I just did a benchmark comparison between our games. (the first one you posted.)

My nexus starts a good 35 seconds later but at that time I have the same amount of probes as that you had at the 5 minute mark.
My forge 20 seconds later
Gate 15 seconds later
Cannon 25 seconds later
Double gas 10 seconds earlier (than your single gas.)
Cyber 15 seconds later.

At the 5 minute mark I have 25 probes against your 19. I am mining double gas and we both have 1 cannon. (You have a second on the way though.)

You are of course a lot safer but a roach timing is deadly for both of us.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Because this a not a religious thread. I would however like to state that I had also never heard of "Lent".
> Notice how high your chrono-boost gets. Also one rule I have learned about FFE is that you get both your gasses once you put down your gateway.
> I just tried the same building order as that you had but without cutting any probes and gasses before cannon. It seems very, very economical, but I have zero units for very long. Could put down more cannons easily though.
> 
> Nexus first Constant probies.zip 7k .zip file
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to watch the replay now, but from the way it sounds with your build if he does a 2 base ling/roach all in you'd not be able to stop it. And yeah 2 gasses are generally better but the chrono you got to save.
> 
> I seem to do Nexus before forge on most big maps, I just see how it feels when i'm scouting.
> 
> Here is a Nexus first ffe that I held off a 2 base roach/ling early push, he was gold rank 12
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (76).zip 43k .zip file
> 
> 
> Watched the replay:
> 
> Why did you type your build ....... that was a waste of time
> 
> The constant probes delayed your expo by about 40 seconds, which I could've caught up in probes but was getting my infrastructure down
> You should've taken his Xel'Naga to see his units sooner
> 
> You're lucky your opponent was bad, 2 pylons before expo or forge? I drop a 15 nexus and a 16 or 17 forge and you should've put your gate beside your forge to make the lings run around the forge+gate to give the canon time to hit them more.
> 
> Your build/probe without planning to play:
> 
> 13 @ 2 min
> 18 @ 3 min only 2 pylons
> 3:21 Nexus goes down 3:32 forge
> 21 @ 4 min
> 25 @ 5
> 31 @ 6
> 
> My build/probe winning the game:
> 12 @ 2 min
> 2:43 Nexus 2:58 Forge
> 15 @ 3 min
> 18 @ 4 min
> 23 @ 5 min
> 28 @ 6 min + 3 gates
Click to expand...

I wasn't luck, it was a custom game against very easy AI xD

Watching the replay now.


----------



## CravinR1

Even then if you play on the ladder that build the way you did it would not work. If you'd like add me to Skype and we'll play a 1v1

cravin.r1


----------



## 13321G4

I feel that you managed to hold of that 2 base push because you had a sentry out with enough energy for two force fields (could have FF the ramp and then taken zero damage while chrono-boosting warp gates and getting units out.) and then you won with a powerful two base push while he was teching. Well played none the less.

I have added you on skype and would love a 1v1







.

I'm on EU...


----------



## CravinR1

This is why I korean 4 gate (if you don't people do stupid stuff like this)

Korhal Compound LE (7).zip 11k .zip file


----------



## HarrisLam

whats the difference between a regular 4 gate and a korean one

you warp in korean stalkers or something?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> whats the difference between a regular 4 gate and a korean one
> you warp in korean stalkers or something?


You only get 18 probes, only mine 50 gas, only 1 pylon in your base then 5 in opponents (to nullify ff)

The Shattered Temple (70) PvP.zip 11k .zip file


----------



## HarrisLam

oh...my...god...










This is about the best streak ive ever had....especially since they are all team games....been through cannon rushes, 3v4's and still came out winning.....

I'll see when the streak ends, but it's usually right after I say something like this









*EDIT* : Yup, killed it right after


----------



## Anti!!

Lol. Better than me. Haha. I been getting rolled.


----------



## sepheroth003

I was geting rolled as well. I've recently decided to stick to a single build until I get it perfect. The build I chose was from teamliquids forums. Protoss 2 Gate Fast Obs FE is what I am trying to perfect. I got the opener, but mid-late game I still need practice. I am abissmal at putting on any pressure early mid game. I seem to have the most luck after getting out a couple obs, going blink stalkers with upgrades.


----------



## 13321G4

I would advise getting one build perfect, PER match up. So three builds total. One can not simply act the same against Zerg, Protoss and Terran. Each match up has unique characteristics that make your build fluctuate depending. Often depending on the scouting information.


----------



## sepheroth003

Ya I was debating 4 Gate against Zerg, I just havent looked into other builds enough yet.


----------



## CravinR1

I've been having luck with this build on Metalopolis PvZ

Metalopolis (59) PvZ plat.zip 19k .zip file


I just found some replays from Season 3. Me and my friend who had played since season 1 and we were silver 1v1 when we met went from silver to gold early in the season then went from gold to masters in a week or so with this build.

I had posted my view of the build awhile ago (game starts about 1 min in) its labeled Diamond Strat but it got us into masters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AHPpODcQY

Here is my friend's view (cut off the last few seconds but we rofl stomped the army they had and won):
http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/309953793

Here is Justin's Protoss Masters 2v2 build

8 pylon & gate
chrno probes
10 gas
11 3 probes in gas
11 cyber
12 gate
12 chrno warp
12 stalker
14 & 16 stalker - all chrno on warp
18 pylon # 2 (proxy near opponents base)

warp in 2 stalkers then attack


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Hey cravin, would you be interested in a few practice matches with me? I notice you're a Plat Protoss, and I'm a high Plat Zerg so it would be pretty good practice.


----------



## CravinR1

Sure Add me on skype

cravin.r1

Though I'm probably not much practice since my PvZ sucks


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Sure Add me on skype
> cravin.r1
> Though I'm probably not much practice since my PvZ sucks


Sounds like a plus for both of you then. lol

If you two are NA add me too. Apparently my skills have slipped and they kicked me outta diamond. haha!

RaGinNyDysDS 411


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Sounds like a plus for both of you then. lol
> If you two are NA add me too. Apparently my skills have slipped and they kicked me outta diamond. haha!
> RaGinNyDysDS 411


I'm on NA and tried to add the above and it said not found (copy pasted ur name then manually entered 411

However on NA add me:

Cravin
911


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm on NA and tried to add the above and it said not found (copy pasted ur name then manually entered 411
> However on NA add me:
> Cravin
> 911


oh cause its RaGinNyDusDS. lol sorry. typo


----------



## CravinR1

Added you


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> oh cause its RaGinNyDusDS. lol sorry. typo


Did you get a new user name for SC2? You're sporting a fancy clan tag at the end







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Did you get a new user name for SC2? You're sporting a fancy clan tag at the end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .










yea. ClanDarkSide.com

We been a css clan for a long time, and finally branched out. We are casual semi serious. We all have aspirations to be masters. So, yeah. haha We have one rank 1 masters on our team who has been with us a long time. I have been outta practice and didnt 1v1 place last season and got dropped to plat this season.







was rank 12 diamond. BUT oh well.


----------



## sepheroth003

It's starting to click for me. I won 7 games in a row last night, no losses. My APM is starting to get in the 50s range, which is leaps and bounds above my 20s I had a week ago. I played demo of SC, then played SC a decent amount but never competively. I played the beta of SC2, and played for a couple months after it first came out. Just got back into it because again...Im in Afghanistan and WoW doesnt work on the network here lol.


----------



## CravinR1

APM 20-50 you starting in bronze ?

What race you play ?


----------



## sepheroth003

I'm playing Protoss because a buddy of mine over here is trying Terran. He is absolutely terrible, so I'm trying to help him as well. I got into Silver, but I was loosing quite a bit until I spent the last couple days doing a ton of reading and getting my build orders figured out. Now I am winning a lot in silver, beat a few gold players as well. So I think I'm working my way up now. I wish I could post a replay so you could check it out, but I'm not sure our internet here will let me upload it anywhere.


----------



## CravinR1

Try my 1 gate FE in PvT

Here is me holding a 3 rax with it vs a guy I played 2v2 with a silver friend and he was saying I was terrible and said he was plat 1v1, so we played 1v1 and I beat him and he asked for a rematch and this is the rematch.

Metalopolis (2) PvT custom ladder mouth.zip 81k .zip file


----------



## sepheroth003

I'll see if I can download it when I get off work tonight. 12 hour work days suck


----------



## CravinR1

I edited my post to include both the matches.

The key to the 1 gate fe is to get a zealot, stalker, sentry in that order, drop your Nexus around 24-26 supply and then immediately take second gas and add 3 more gates. Get the Robo bay before 6:15 and send a obs to the base to see what they're doing. Then drop a robo bay

I usually get 3 sentries, and 1 stalker then about 7 or 8 zealots. If they push before my second base has kicked in you ff behind the rauders/rines and let the zealots eat them up

After the robo bay the expo should be saturated pretty well and I add 4 more gates, then asap I drop a twilight and double forge and get charge and 1-1 chronoed


----------



## sepheroth003

Sounds similar to mine but I get only 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and then stalkers and expand later than you are suggesting.

Could you give me a build my buddy can use? He's playing terran, were doing 2v2 in bronze league with me being Protoss. I've basically been beating our opponents by myself, he's not much help until half way through the match he has 2000+ minerals he gives me and I go like 10 gate lol


----------



## CravinR1

I like to go zealot heavy with 3 sentries early cause a 2-3 rax with rauders the zealots can take alot more damage and deal alot more damage (provided you ff behind them so they don't stutter step)

As far as 2v2 with PT:

Me and my friend are PT and we've been doing a 9-10 min 4-6 colo with rines push that placed us Diamond.

I get 30 probes asap and 2 robo bays, he gets 3 rax with 2 reacotors and a tech lab and researched combat shields then gas dumps the rest to me. I start range and chrno it after my first 2 colo start. He gets a bunker or 2 to hold off against early attacks

He ONLY makes rines to deal with air, like Mutas/banshees. Colo's rape ground. We generally wait for 6 colo's unless we get scouted then we go on four. Terran gas dumps to you after add on and combat shields is started. Also after 6 colo you move to attack while expoing behind it.

My and my brothers (which I use now) accounts are:

Cravin
ChadStrife
KingIson

SC2 PT 2v2 Diamond.zip 94k .zip file


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Sounds similar to mine but I get only 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and then stalkers and expand later than you are suggesting.
> Could you give me a build my buddy can use? He's playing terran, were doing 2v2 in bronze league with me being Protoss. I've basically been beating our opponents by myself, he's not much help until half way through the match he has 2000+ minerals he gives me and I go like 10 gate lol


Hey man,

me and my buddy have been hovering around top 100 2v2 in NA. We're TZ, but I might have some insight.

We did a bit of TP when we played random, and we found that Reactor barracks, factory siege tank and another rax for the terran and 3gate voidray for the protoss KILLED. You push with 3 tanks and 3 voids and make bunkers and ****, it's the bomb. Otherwise you may want to try 4gate/3 barracks, pretty good. Your builds will change depending on the composition, of course.

Against Zerg Zerg, go marauder hellion + defensive 4gate. This is because ZZ have pretty sick allins with like double roach rushes and stuff, so you need early units.
Against TZ, it's pretty much autoloss unless you push for a macro game or cheese them with 2rax+proxygates or something.
Against TT, push for a longer game. A Terran + Protoss maxed army > Terran + Terran max army. Make collosus and stuff while your partner can go mech or marauders
Against PP, this is pretty easy. Have your partner go for early emp since it works on both of them and crush them. Or just go MMM + collosus
Against PZ hmm. You could pressure the zerg with hellion/4gate or marauder hellion.. hard to say.
Against your mirror, do the 3gate void + tank


----------



## onoz

Hi everyone! I'm a protoss gold and I keep losing to gold/plat terrans. If you guys don't mind, can I see some replays on what I should do? It's really frustrating that I haven't lost to P or Z in a long time, but I lose to Terran almost every single time (they have to mess up pretty bad for me to win). I think I just get psyched out whenever I know it's terran...

I usually do 3 gate + robo to start, and I can defend pretty against almost every early push (FF op?







). It's when I start pushing out to get my 3rd base that things start going down hill. My biggest weakness is drops. When they drop on my main/natural, I'm not sure how to react. Should I send my whole army back? Should I warp in units to defend but counter at the same time? Should I have built more cannons (I feel like cannons are a waste)?

I know a lot of it is my own fault. I used to go colossus a lot, only to get murdered by vikings, but I'm now trying to learn HTs and I REALLY suck with them (so if I could see some of those replays, that might help a lot too). I've also been working on my FF, playing FF/Blink micro custom maps. It helps against zerg (which I don't really have problems with), but doesn't really teach me anything for PvT.


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> Hi everyone! I'm a protoss gold and I keep losing to gold/plat terrans. If you guys don't mind, can I see some replays on what I should do? It's really frustrating that I haven't lost to P or Z in a long time, but I lose to Terran almost every single time (they have to mess up pretty bad for me to win). I think I just get psyched out whenever I know it's terran...
> I usually do 3 gate + robo to start, and I can defend pretty against almost every early push (FF op?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). It's when I start pushing out to get my 3rd base that things start going down hill. My biggest weakness is drops. When they drop on my main/natural, I'm not sure how to react. Should I send my whole army back? Should I warp in units to defend but counter at the same time? Should I have built more cannons (I feel like cannons are a waste)?
> I know a lot of it is my own fault. I used to go colossus a lot, only to get murdered by vikings, but I'm now trying to learn HTs and I REALLY suck with them (so if I could see some of those replays, that might help a lot too). I've also been working on my FF, playing FF/Blink micro custom maps. It helps against zerg (which I don't really have problems with), but doesn't really teach me anything for PvT.


Add me if you want a platinum terran practice partner: roberT.759


----------



## 13321G4

I just played a game against a Terran that turtled until he was maxed on battle cruisers. Was very annoying to play against because he had turrets EVERYWHERE! I was a base up (or half a base up) through out the game so I never thought it necessary to attack.

It's funny how strong stalkers are in the right numbers. Three of four epic storms on a ton of BC's









Sky terran.zip 77k .zip file


Edit:

Although the storms were epic, they were so ineffective. I hit like three of four with each storm for the entire duration of the storm but they barely took any damage. Should have used more feedback's :-(


----------



## onoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberT_*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> Hi everyone! I'm a protoss gold and I keep losing to gold/plat terrans. If you guys don't mind, can I see some replays on what I should do? It's really frustrating that I haven't lost to P or Z in a long time, but I lose to Terran almost every single time (they have to mess up pretty bad for me to win). I think I just get psyched out whenever I know it's terran...
> I usually do 3 gate + robo to start, and I can defend pretty against almost every early push (FF op?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). It's when I start pushing out to get my 3rd base that things start going down hill. My biggest weakness is drops. When they drop on my main/natural, I'm not sure how to react. Should I send my whole army back? Should I warp in units to defend but counter at the same time? Should I have built more cannons (I feel like cannons are a waste)?
> I know a lot of it is my own fault. I used to go colossus a lot, only to get murdered by vikings, but I'm now trying to learn HTs and I REALLY suck with them (so if I could see some of those replays, that might help a lot too). I've also been working on my FF, playing FF/Blink micro custom maps. It helps against zerg (which I don't really have problems with), but doesn't really teach me anything for PvT.
> 
> 
> 
> Add me if you want a platinum terran practice partner: roberT.759
Click to expand...

Will do as soon as I get home tonight!


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onoz*
> 
> Hi everyone! I'm a protoss gold and I keep losing to gold/plat terrans. If you guys don't mind, can I see some replays on what I should do? It's really frustrating that I haven't lost to P or Z in a long time, but I lose to Terran almost every single time (they have to mess up pretty bad for me to win). I think I just get psyched out whenever I know it's terran...
> I usually do 3 gate + robo to start, and I can defend pretty against almost every early push (FF op?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). It's when I start pushing out to get my 3rd base that things start going down hill. My biggest weakness is drops. When they drop on my main/natural, I'm not sure how to react. Should I send my whole army back? Should I warp in units to defend but counter at the same time? Should I have built more cannons (I feel like cannons are a waste)?
> I know a lot of it is my own fault. I used to go colossus a lot, only to get murdered by vikings, but I'm now trying to learn HTs and I REALLY suck with them (so if I could see some of those replays, that might help a lot too). I've also been working on my FF, playing FF/Blink micro custom maps. It helps against zerg (which I don't really have problems with), but doesn't really teach me anything for PvT.


http://www.overclock.net/attachments/2817

I do a 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo into colossus into HT

Only Terran that has beat me really is my friend and he goes thors/ghosts/rines and then its 50/50

Once you get HT leave one in your base to HT the medivac, you may destroy it or at least whatever you warp in to deal with the drop (I prefer zealots) won't have to deal with units getting healed.

Just had a good game with roberT with AMW obsing, thanks for the game and the tips


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I just played a game against a Terran that turtled until he was maxed on battle cruisers. Was very annoying to play against because he had turrets EVERYWHERE! I was a base up (or half a base up) through out the game so I never thought it necessary to attack.
> It's funny how strong stalkers are in the right numbers. Three of four epic storms on a ton of BC's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky terran.zip 77k .zip file
> 
> Edit:
> Although the storms were epic, they were so ineffective. I hit like three of four with each storm for the entire duration of the storm but they barely took any damage. Should have used more feedback's :-(


if he is turtleing that hard you should be way more than 1 base up on him....but yeah its frustrating as all hell playing vs turtle T you have to play quite passively and just contain him to the smallest part of the map you can punish hard if he moves out of his turtle and wear him down.

Its vital you keep crushing any move he makes to expand so you can starve him out, while ensureing you have lots of basses with plenty of production and a big bank so you can instant remax if your first army dies.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> if he is turtleing that hard you should be way more than 1 base up on him....but yeah its frustrating as all hell playing vs turtle T you have to play quite passively and just contain him to the smallest part of the map you can punish hard if he moves out of his turtle and wear him down.
> Its vital you keep crushing any move he makes to expand so you can starve him out, while ensureing you have lots of basses with plenty of production and a big bank so you can instant remax if your first army dies.


this


----------



## Alex132

Does anyone find that playing against silver / low gold is harder than most plat / diamond? Its almost impossible to predict what they're doing .-.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Does anyone find that playing against silver / low gold is harder than most plat / diamond? Its almost impossible to predict what they're doing .-.


Yeah it can be hard when you scout something and you assume you know what it means but it turns out it just meant that he is a bit of a nablet and built a whole bunch of extra tech he didn't really need or whatever.

I often find myself desperately searching for hidden tech hidden bases etc only to discover in the replay the 1000 missing minerals are actually just a trust fund building


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Does anyone find that playing against silver / low gold is harder than most plat / diamond? Its almost impossible to predict what they're doing .-.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it can be hard when you scout something and you assume you know what it means but it turns out it just meant that he is a bit of a nablet and built a whole bunch of extra tech he didn't really need or whatever.
> 
> I often find myself desperately searching for hidden tech hidden bases etc only to discover in the replay the 1000 missing minerals are actually just a trust fund building
Click to expand...

I'd sometimes take both his gasses, he'd only retake them very late but still go double robo. Kinda surprised me








I just scout a lot more now when playing on my friend's accounts


----------



## roberT_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Does anyone find that playing against silver / low gold is harder than most plat / diamond? Its almost impossible to predict what they're doing .-.


I'm in plat and I can't ever predict what they are doing either.


----------



## 13321G4

You shouldn't be guessing what they can be doing, you should be eliminating what they can't be doing!


----------



## sepheroth003

Well after a night of 7wins no losses, I went last night 3 wins 2 losses, but one of my losses was in a 3v3 where my buddy dropped out. So I'm not doing as good as I did the other night. I think honestly I just need caught up on sleep. I'm dead tired over here lol

My 2v2 partner and I are going to try that strat Cravin, TP Coloss and rines. It might have to wait until tomorrow, because I may just get off work here and go to sleep.


----------



## Nickw

I want some people to play with ! I'm on the american server and I really play w/e I can do 2's 3's or 4's and I just want to play with people who love the game and have a decent knowledge of it . I'm not looking for someone amazing. PM me on here


----------



## ntherblast

Gotta love them 2v2 nothing better than an ally who asks what build you are going at the start. I don't understand how someone can have a build set in stone in this dynamic game. Oh and you gotta love those toss that dont make units only until they have warpgates

I'll just never figure out how the system keeps giving me allies who are gold when imm diamond and we face arranegd teams that are diamond/plat and teams are considered even


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Gotta love them 2v2 nothing better than an ally who asks what build you are going at the start. I don't understand how someone can have a build set in stone in this dynamic game. Oh and you gotta love those toss that dont make units only until they have warpgates


Easily for rushes and an opening build


----------



## Sainesk

everyone make sure to vote on season 7 ladder maps if you feel like it... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4519245/Season_7_GSL_Map_Poll-2_28_2012#blog would be nice if Bliz added the ones that win the poll

would love to finally play ladder on dual sight, bel'shir winter, daybreak, any of them really - cept calm before the storm... ruined my SC2 name + had a grudge against it ever since the first time I played on it I walled off my enclosed expand not realizing that's not where my opponent will be likely to come first *facepalm* 2 entries to main > my intelligence.


----------



## poroboszcz

Calm before the storm is a protoss heaven. That's why 'i voted for it, but it's unlikely it'll go to ladder. Also voted Daybreak as it's pretty good and balanced. Don't get why so many people vote for Bel'shir winter though, must be terrans.


----------



## HometownHero

I'm all about putting Daybreak in the ladder. I'd even want Bel Shir Winter in the ladder just for a change in scenery, and hellion run-bys...


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I'd like Terminus and Bel'shir Winter. Terminus makes for a good macro ZvZ map, and Bel'shir just looks cool.


----------



## DoomDash

6-1 on my Korean account, hopefully close to my promotion to Diamond.


----------



## Benladesh

I need someone in gold who I can play with. My buddy is masters and he doesn't really understand how im having trouble (he started in masters and never left it..)

I have trouble managing my macro but also getting an army, I'm either too greedy or I don't macro enough..


----------



## CravinR1

I'm Platinum which is close to Gold if you want to add me to skype:

cravin.r1

Or sc2:

Cravin
911


----------



## AOwpr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I need someone in gold who I can play with. My buddy is masters and he doesn't really understand how im having trouble (he started in masters and never left it..)
> I have trouble managing my macro but also getting an army, I'm either too greedy or I don't macro enough..


I'm gold at the moment, feel free to add me. All my friends are either diamond or higher or low silver, so kind of in the same boat as you. Feel free to add me on Steam, AONomad, my SC2 info is AtlasImmer cc 356.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm Platinum which is close to Gold if you want to add me to skype:
> cravin.r1
> Or sc2:
> Cravin
> 911


Don't mind if I add you too I hope?


----------



## CravinR1

Welcome anyone from OCN to add me. I prefer in the gold-plat range unless someone higher wants to coach me some?

NA server

Cravin
911

Let me see the other account I use alot

ChadStrife
133


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Does everyone here still only play Standard Maps? I got bored of that long time ago. Custom Maps FTW.


----------



## Anti!!

I got bored of custom maps when turret defense was in sc 1. lol


----------



## onoz

Feel free to add me. awkward.707. I'm a gold protoss player.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Me too!

SpaceCore.941 (Portal 2 reference : p)

High Platinum Zerg player.


----------



## 13321G4

All you NA peeps :-( Any EU guys here?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Me too!
> SpaceCore.941 (Portal 2 reference : p)
> High Platinum Zerg player.


I need you to tell me how you lose to protoss so I can beat some plat zergs









I hate PvZ


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I need you to tell me how you lose to protoss so I can beat some plat zergs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate PvZ


Personally Stargate play, namely lots of phoenix harass has always messed me up in ZvP early on Z has very weak anti air and you can with a few phoenixes and a void-ray put a serious dent in an econ.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Personally Stargate play, namely lots of phoenix harass has always messed me up in ZvP early on Z has very weak anti air and you can with a few phoenixes and a void-ray put a serious dent in an econ.


I find that the zerg is fast to make queens/spores which totally neutralize air play


----------



## Dr216

how long are you sticking with it? its more a harass and to force his tech early, if you can pick off 1 or 2 queens delay his 3rd and get a drone or 2 then a few phoenixes and voids are well worth it, after that you just use them to clear out overlords and deny scouting. I'm not suggesting all out star protoss just early harass, leading to void support for your ground army.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Gotta love them 2v2 nothing better than an ally who asks what build you are going at the start. I don't understand how someone can have a build set in stone in this dynamic game.


I'm one of those people

usually you know half the build you want to go after seeing the match up, by asking the question, the answer I seek is ultimately a decision of rush or not rush


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Does everyone here still only play Standard Maps? I got bored of that long time ago. Custom Maps FTW.


i was obsessed with custom maps in War3

mainly dota, then all kinds of TDs (especially skibi TD, oh man those mini-games....i miss them), and sometimes i play random crap

without the blizzard built-in item slot UI, somethings in custom maps just dont look as good, a major one being items in Sotis or whatever its called, the dota in SC2 i'm sure you guys know that, just dont feel right

war3 dota >> SC2 dota

The TDs are good though, i played a few of those, but sc2 just have a lot less ppl playing custom maps compared to war3


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> how long are you sticking with it? its more a harass and to force his tech early, if you can pick off 1 or 2 queens delay his 3rd and get a drone or 2 then a few phoenixes and voids are well worth it, after that you just use them to clear out overlords and deny scouting. I'm not suggesting all out star protoss just early harass, leading to void support for your ground army.


I find zealot harass early to snipe the third is my best bet, 6 gate +1 into colossus

Here is a gold zerg I just played

Korhal Compound LE (9) PvZ gold.zip 43k .zip file


----------



## 13321G4

Send +1 zealots to third and harass main/natural with phoenixes is my style









Alas I concentrate to much on my harass that I basically don't macro :-(


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Send +1 zealots to third and harass main/natural with phoenixes is my style
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alas I concentrate to much on my harass that I basically don't macro :-(


I don't generally go stargate for harassment, seems they get spores and hydras too fast to make it worthwhile when I could get a zealot/stalker/sentry army like the game I posted


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I find zealot harass early to snipe the third is my best bet, 6 gate +1 into colossus
> Here is a gold zerg I just played
> 
> Korhal Compound LE (9) PvZ gold.zip 43k .zip file


It's a stylistic choice but people especially in the lower leagues get too caught up in "big" plays crushing his 3rd or whatever but those plays are costly, having a few phoenixes and a void delay his 3rd and force hydra's out and then just using them to control the map and route out overlords is a big return on a small investment. Even if you do not take a queen or kill anything other than his ovies you can still easily make a good return on your investment. Bare in mind that every spore he builds is a worker killed for your totals too. Its not a game breaking killing move its harassment it just gets you a little further ahead and opens up your options later in the game while limiting his options.

End of the day each game and player is different but i found that early stargate play was very effective on both sides of the matchup, that said im barely playing at all these days things may have changed allot from 3-4months ago when i was low-mid diamond as random.

Also i guess that most gold level players dont have good overlord scouting spread and if they did they wouldn't know what to do with it so your damage and what you are denying him is less at lower levels of play.


----------



## 13321G4

Cravin requested an example. This can get refined a thousand times over but in the end I still roflstomped him.

Zealots to third Phoenix harrass.zip 39k .zip file


I don't know if it was wise to send my zealots from the third in to the natural where he had spines and lings but I wanted to keep up the pressure.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Well after a night of 7wins no losses, I went last night 3 wins 2 losses, but one of my losses was in a 3v3 where my buddy dropped out. So I'm not doing as good as I did the other night. I think honestly I just need caught up on sleep. I'm dead tired over here lol
> My 2v2 partner and I are going to try that strat Cravin, TP Coloss and rines. It might have to wait until tomorrow, because I may just get off work here and go to sleep.


Even our opponents love the strat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxq4cp87l4&feature=youtu.be


----------



## sepheroth003

Cravin no good, I cant youtube at all over here. Not at work, not when I get off.

I'm excited almost time to get off and try our 2v2 strat tonight.


----------



## Anti!!

It seems we are getting some life around here.

Those of you who dont know, we have a channel called overclock.net

When i am on i always idle there. hometown hero does, doom dash, Raztull, HarrisLam, just a few. So, ADD TO THE POPULATION.

Also hit up my channel sometime if you wish. ClanDarkSide


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It seems we are getting some life around here.
> Those of you who dont know, we have a channel called overclock.net
> When i am on i always idle there. hometown hero does, doom dash, Raztull, just a few. So, ADD TO THE POPULATION.
> Also hit up my channel sometime if you wish. ClanDarkSide


where was my name in there bro

I am disappoint


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It seems we are getting some life around here.
> Those of you who dont know, we have a channel called overclock.net
> When i am on i always idle there. hometown hero does, doom dash, Raztull, *HarrisLam*, just a few. So, ADD TO THE POPULATION.
> Also hit up my channel sometime if you wish. ClanDarkSide


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> where was my name in there bro
> I am disappoint


What? who? where? lol

Sorry, I cant remember it all


----------



## AOwpr

I'll be on in around 20 minutes if anyone's up for a practice game or two. Mid/high gold zerg, AtlasImmer character code 356


----------



## CravinR1

drunk+sober.zip 155k .zip file

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> I'll be on in around 20 minutes if anyone's up for a practice game or two. Mid/high gold zerg, AtlasImmer character code 356


GG bro, best drunk/sober games ever


----------



## HarrisLam

what's the standard timing for a 4 gate warp tech to finish?

I've been playing about 2 toss games and I realize my warp finishes pretty late

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What? who? where? lol
> Sorry, I cant remember it all


I quoted you bro, don't cheat









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> I'll be on in around 20 minutes if anyone's up for a practice game or two. Mid/high gold zerg, AtlasImmer character code 356


aw man....I just missed you by.....3 hours....


----------



## Sainesk

Just tried the new starcraft master custom game, great little micro practice. Got all achievs cept all levels complete one, gave up on level 27+, too tired now, but the 3 marines vs 2 zealots looks way more doable than the other 3 levels I have left. (Struggling to do the can't touch this banshee micro







)


----------



## sepheroth003

Forgot to look in the ocn channel last night. Ill try to remember tonight.

Cravin I added you, my name is Valitri on there.

Ok so we tried the colossus/rine strat 2v2 PTvXX 3 times last night. Here are the results.

First game
We lost, got rushed. My teammate is really bad, but he built two bunkers in ******ed locations, and didnt make but one marine before we got rushed, and my one zealot wasn't going to stop them lol.

Second game
We lost. Again rushed, this time my teammate put one bunker in a really ******ed location and had 4 marines.

Third game
Finally we held off the rush, I had to make 3 zealots early. Got out 4 colossus and went in. My teammate only had 25 marines, but he left 8 in the bunkers and didnt bring them lol. We killed an expo real fast, then all the scvs in the main of one. The terran got banshees with no cloak, my teammate didnt switch to them so they killed my colossus.

It's tough keeping patients with my teammate. He finished his placement matches the other day and hes ranked like 96th in his bronze league. Last night I got to... 14? In my silver league? I actually think I'm on my way up to gold here soon. We'll see.


----------



## AOwpr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> drunk+sober.zip 155k .zip file
> 
> GG bro, best drunk/sober games ever


all kinds of fun








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> what's the standard timing for a 4 gate warp tech to finish?
> I've been playing about 2 toss games and I realize my warp finishes pretty late
> I quoted you bro, don't cheat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aw man....I just missed you by.....3 hours....


What's your name/code? I'll add you, might be on this afternoon or evening.

Also, as far as warp timing, I think the earliest is around 7:20 or so. I'm not a toss player so don't know for sure, but just before the 7 minute mark is when I start making a few extra lings and trying to take map control in case P goes 4gate.


----------



## CravinR1

If I all In I can have warp at 5:45, but 6:30 ish is standard timing


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOwpr*
> 
> all kinds of fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your name/code? I'll add you, might be on this afternoon or evening.
> Also, as far as warp timing, I think the earliest is around 7:20 or so. I'm not a toss player so don't know for sure, but just before the 7 minute mark is when I start making a few extra lings and trying to take map control in case P goes 4gate.


ill check when i get back home, but prepared for a possibility we could almost never play together lol. i get online at odd timings, only in nights of weekends will we likely meet

and nope, 4gate is way earlier than that, your response time has his travel time already factored in

*EDIT : HarrisLam code : 572*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> If I all In I can have warp at 5:45, but 6:30 ish is standard timing


i was reaching it around 6:30 i guess, just felt really slow i dont know why. i had an impression of 4gate being around 6min and any slower than that is kind of late.

i dont follow any build orders, i basically just do gateway, core and then warp tech, and build zealot, zealot and stalker during that time, and when warp finished it was like 6:20 - 6:40 i was like whaaa?

guess i played too much terran with the 4 min rush time


----------



## CravinR1

Korean 4 gate with a 10 gate research is done at 5:30 and gates convert to warp gates at 5:45 ish


----------



## CravinR1

All in 8 food gate, 12 probe build only gets warp after 5 min

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/309953793


----------



## HarrisLam

hmmm......I think I always do 12 gate...... is that way late?

maybe I should adjust my play a bit


----------



## CravinR1

Standard timing is a 13 gate, 10 gate is for korean 4 gate which is a all in, you only make 18 probes and only 50 gas for warp then pylons in their base


----------



## fashric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> All you NA peeps :-( Any EU guys here?


I'm on the EU server playing terran my name Crushinator and code is 395 add me if you want.


----------



## Sainesk

Really enjoyed that new Starcraft Master micro challenges custom game, although I was disappointed with one or two levels, like the HT move back and let marines walk across storm (too easy...), but others like lv 27 with 1 banshee vs 10 marines felt brutal but so satisfying when I pulled it off - shows how much I micro my banshees in VS







. Needs moar levels...


----------



## Alex132

*Sigh*

I just broke my Death Adder from SC2. Left mouse button activator collapsed in on itself.

Using a 1-click mac mouse now :I


----------



## -SE7EN-

terrible player, looking for more terrible players to 1v1 / custom with. LOCSTA 447


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-SE7EN-*
> 
> terrible player, looking for more terrible players to 1v1 / custom with. LOCSTA 447


terrible intoxicated player, added you and you're not on but

cravin 911
chadstrife 133

I don't know kingison character code and i'm not logging it cause i'm drunk


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really enjoyed that new Starcraft Master micro challenges custom game, although I was disappointed with one or two levels, like the HT move back and let marines walk across storm (too easy...), but others like lv 27 with 1 banshee vs 10 marines felt brutal but so satisfying when I pulled it off - shows how much I micro my banshees in VS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Needs moar levels...


How the hell did you manage to get all those achievements?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> How the hell did you manage to get all those achievements?


Do you mean the Starcraft Master ones? or as in overall? because I know a fair few people that have every achievement which make my under 5K look like a joke...







I have had the game since it came out so have had a lot of time to get them


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> terrible intoxicated player, added you and you're not on but
> cravin 911
> chadstrife 133
> I don't know kingison character code and i'm not logging it cause i'm drunk


You play bad when you're drunk? What? No way..


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Do you mean the Starcraft Master ones? or as in overall? because I know a fair few people that have every achievement which make my under 5K look like a joke...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had the game since it came out so have had a lot of time to get them


Overall. I only have 2990 points and I've had the game since a month or two after release.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Overall. I only have 2990 points and I've had the game since a month or two after release.


Ive got 1660 points and only 600 league wins and ive had it since the very first part of closed beta. :/


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I've had it since the beta too. Placed in Copper league. Those were the days. 730 wins if I remember correctly. Now I'm Plat.


----------



## xcluded

i just got this game.
so late to join this party.

started to play some campaign. have not tried online play , afraid of getting raped.

where should i start


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xcluded*
> 
> i just got this game.
> so late to join this party.
> started to play some campaign. have not tried online play , afraid of getting raped.
> where should i start


Most people that play online definaetly already know the basics. If you want to get into online play, I recommend the tutorials for the basics, and the challanges for some more details. Once you beat all those you'll have enough knowledge to try online, you'll probably still loose bad.


----------



## AOwpr

It's an uphill battle, but worth it. Probably find some friends and play with them, easier to have fun I think.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xcluded*
> 
> where should i start


well first off instead of being afraid of getting owned, beg to get owned. I've personally learned more in 1 game vs some of the masters players in this thread than I have in entire seasons in my own league.

try all the races, then pick one to focus on. As a Random player, i'd suggest a single race, unless you are okay with being held back leagues because you dominate with one but are pathetic with another (like my Protoss







).

skip the practice games, since they run with a slower game mode they don't help at all and will probably just lead to more shock when you start playing at normal game speed (faster).

Practice against the ai, learn the hotkeys (you can turn them on in options to be displayed over the unit's squares in the bottom right which I found to greatly help), watch replays (others' and your own), watching tournaments for inspiration doesn't hurt either and is fun and stress free. Most importantly, watch all of Day9's Newbie Tuesdays videos, this guy is responsible for many people who started in like bronze and silver, jumping up to plat/diamond and beyond.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xcluded*
> 
> i just got this game.
> so late to join this party.
> started to play some campaign. have not tried online play , afraid of getting raped.
> where should i start


practice matches with people about your skill level, and once you get the basics down, work on a build, and run it against your practice partners.


----------



## HarrisLam

i would say fire up the campaign mode at normal difficulty and finish that first. It isn't too hard at normal, and is pretty enjoyable with the rpg elements, bunch of things to see and play around between missions. Great fun.

the more multiplayer you play, the less you would care about the story mode. If you skip it the first time, the only reason you would go back to it is "man, I wonder if I can finish story in brutle."

It is also very helpful in guiding one through gameplay...well, at least terran gameplay


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> It is also very helpful in guiding one through gameplay...well, at least terran gameplay


It kind of gives you a whole heap of bad bad habits though.

My advice would be, Don't expect to win right out the gate but instead set yourself personal "win" condiditions, For example in my zerg play my creep spread was terribad and i decided to focus on it pretty heavily this cost me countless of my Z games (i play/played random) but as long as in those games I was keeping my injects up and my "spare" queen energy down and my creep tumours were not off cool down for more than 30 seconds i considered that game a win. After a number of games it got like second nature to me and I no longer had to concentrate on it and my Win% skyrocketed.

Kind of round about but what im saying is, while your learning the game you will loose allot of matches the hard thing is to learn from those losses and not dwell on them, I found setting personal "win" conditions helps with that allot stopping you from getting dissheartened.


----------



## HarrisLam

like, what kind of bad habits?

I never noticed, but maybe I have them


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> like, what kind of bad habits?
> I never noticed, but maybe I have them


It encourages you into a mentality of building up a huge army and A moving for the win. Discourages scouting and harrass, doesn't teach you to expand properly if at all or encourage you to macro all that well. That's before you even get into all the extra teach that doesn't exist in multi-player or the fact you always start with half your buildings.

I maintain that the single-player is responsible for 90% of the 1 base turtle terrans people used to QQ about all over in the bronze league









Don't get me wrong the single-player is awesome but I wouldn't use it as a starting point for learning multi-player. Beyond the very fundamental basics of every strategy game it doesn't teach you anything really about star craft


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> It encourages you into a mentality of building up a huge army and A moving for the win. Discourages scouting and harrass, doesn't teach you to expand properly if at all or encourage you to macro all that well. That's before you even get into all the extra teach that doesn't exist in multi-player or the fact you always start with half your buildings.
> I maintain that the single-player is responsible for 90% of the 1 base turtle terrans people used to QQ about all over in the bronze league
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong the single-player is awesome but I wouldn't use it as a starting point for learning multi-player. Beyond the very fundamental basics of every strategy game it doesn't teach you anything really about star craft


oh that

Well, you're right on most of that

one thing though, you are a master player yourself, so you might not understand how beginners might be struggling at the bottom. I have a fair experience of playing RTS causally, and the first time I played SC2 (at normal, AND normal speed), I still had to restart a few of the missions before completing them, especially the last one. Oh man, I still remember having such a hard time beating it, I picked no air zerg so nydus keep popping out and I just mass tanks but I kept losing cuz of bad macro and tank placement etc

tl;dr some of them, or us, know less than what you might consider basics. keep getting workers, build the right buildings, the right units, manage your econ, scout, take good off / def spots, learn hot keys, micro during battle, so much to learn in this game that I really doubt if he could learn more than 3 things during the course of the campaign even if he wants to

Just saying if its TRUELY one's first RTS, it would be very helpful for the basics. Scout and harass are what I consider experienced play. Scouting requires you to precisely interpret your opponent's build from gathering clues (which cannot be done without extensive knowledge of different builds of certain races), and harass (reapers, drops, mutas, zergling run-bys, etc) requires a decent amount of micro, ever higher if you were to execute the harassment well AND handling your macro back at base.

I would say its cool to just learn what building gives you what at the first stage. imo that's the "walk" part, what you said is the "run" part. Really depends on how much he knows about RTS though


----------



## sepheroth003

I was playing on hard, but got stuck on a level where the fire forces you to keep moving. Now that I am getting better, I should try it again and see if I can beat it now.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> oh that
> Well, you're right on most of that
> one thing though, you are a master player yourself, so you might not understand how beginners might be struggling at the bottom.


I am diamond not masters







but i started out in the bronze league same as every other newbie, and my experience with bronze players is that the thing that costs them the most games is poor macro and no scouting, commonly you see players never even leave their base giving up map control completely until they consider themselves "ready" and then they push out with a maxed out army and no backup plan, its a bad habit formed from the turtle mentality that the SP encourages.

you dont need amazing crazy strats or uber micro to hit plat/diamond you just need solid macro and scouting, if you have that you will progress up the ranks.


----------



## Anti!!

Is it bad i started out in gold when plat was the highest in beta? lol

MAN I JUST NEED TO PLAY AND PRACTICE> GM COULD BE MINE>


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I was playing on hard, but got stuck on a level where the fire forces you to keep moving. Now that I am getting better, I should try it again and see if I can beat it now.


definitely, but be sure to adjust the speed back to league speed, which was "faster" instead of the default "fast" for hard mode.

I just beat brutle missions like a month ago, after getting stuck time after time, the whole brutle campaign lasted like at least half a year for me (there were times that I got stuck and stopped playing, not like I tried these missions everyday and still took half a year, that would be pretty sad







)

beating the campaign gives me a satisfying feeling in a way, though the last mission got me watching a youtube video like 20 times before I finally played right to win, so I kind of half-cheated there. However I dont think I would stand a chance without watching that vid, it's only after I searched these videos did I realize that I picked all the wrong upgrades.

@dr216 : hmm.....I don't know.....

I play terran, and I'm by no means a turtle player, as I sometimes even take big risks and pure marine fast expand etc, but I do macro A WHOLE GODDAMMM LOT better than I do micro, I wonder if that's one of those habits.

But then again, the campaign is what? 25 missions? Come on, after another 25 league games he will surely grow out of it


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Is it bad i started out in gold when plat was the highest in beta? lol
> MAN I JUST NEED TO PLAY AND PRACTICE> GM COULD BE MINE>


It's changed. I was plat in beta, I'm silver now but I think I'm on my way up to gold. I'm considerably better than when I did my placement matches.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think I'm getting worse at this game somehow. I've got my builds more refined, better understanding of matchups etc. yet I just seem to lose more to some random stuff. I had around 65% w/l ratio in Diamond last season and was probably on my way to promotion, now I'm barely at 50 and I don't even play masters as often as I used to. I'm starting to think it's not possible to play this game casually and be any good at it.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Come on, after another 25 league games he will surely grow out of it


Much much easier to start with good habits than break bad ones


----------



## CravinR1

I found for myself that beating the camapign gives you a very basic understanding of mechanics. Then playing 2v2 helped me to see other builds.

Watching videos of analysis and tips is the best way to get out of bronze.

However for me going from Silver 1v1 to Plat 1v1 was basically learning builds and timings and above all practice

I had to play 30 or 40 games to go from silver to Gold. Probably that many again to get into plat.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Watching videos of analysis and tips is the best way to get out of bronze.


this. day[9] is a top example for someone of lower levels to watch and learn.


----------



## burwij

There's a decent beginner guide on reddit that I've linked to friends in the past:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lf73b/my_beginners_guide_to_improving_at_starcraft_2/

Reading tips and watching streams is all well and good, but in the end the best way to get better at SC2 is to play SC2. Play some games against the AI (or better yet, some custom games with a friend), play a few team games (you can queue alone or with friends), and then jump right into 1v1. You're going to lose the majority of your first 15-20 games - the first time you get cannon rushed, the first time someone proxies (builds stuff inside or near your base), the first time you face banshees or DTs, etc. Accept this and embrace it.

Every loss is a learning experience; watch your replays, figure out what he did, and figure out how you can improve your build to stay one step ahead of him. Pick 1-2 builds per matchup (Liquidpedia or TL strategy forum) and practice the hell out of them. Constantly build workers and depots/pylons/overlords. Keep your minerals below 1000. With a couple of strategies and decent macro you'll be Platinum or higher in no time.


----------



## CravinR1

Ultimately playing the game is where you improve. When I was silver and just started playing games I improved to gold fairly fast. My friend has trouble getting out of silver so he 1v1 my plat terran friend while I obs'd

The entire game I was like "probes, chrono probes"

Seems most beginners don't know when to expo and cut probes/workers too much


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think I'm getting worse at this game somehow. I've got my builds more refined, better understanding of matchups etc. yet I just seem to lose more to some random stuff. I had around 65% w/l ratio in Diamond last season and was probably on my way to promotion, now I'm barely at 50 and I don't even play masters as often as I used to. I'm starting to think it's not possible to play this game casually and be any good at it.


This is a definate yes. I was up with masters peeps too. But casual playing at that point will only make you worse.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> There's a decent beginner guide on reddit that I've linked to friends in the past:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lf73b/my_beginners_guide_to_improving_at_starcraft_2/
> Reading tips and watching streams is all well and good, but in the end the best way to get better at SC2 is to play SC2. Play some games against the AI (or better yet, some custom games with a friend), play a few team games (you can queue alone or with friends), and then jump right into 1v1. You're going to lose the majority of your first 15-20 games - the first time you get cannon rushed, the first time someone proxies (builds stuff inside or near your base), the first time you face banshees or DTs, etc. Accept this and embrace it.
> Every loss is a learning experience; watch your replays, figure out what he did, and figure out how you can improve your build to stay one step ahead of him. Pick 1-2 builds per matchup (Liquidpedia or TL strategy forum) and practice the hell out of them. Constantly build workers and depots/pylons/overlords. Keep your minerals below 1000. With a couple of strategies and decent macro you'll be Platinum or higher in no time.


Thanks for the link. I've been analyzing my replays a lot but having a checklist might help!


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> This is a definate yes. I was up with masters peeps too. But casual playing at that point will only make you worse.


right, so why don't you guys degrade a little more just so you all can play with me


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> right, so why don't you guys degrade a little more just so you all can play with me


Have you added me yet?


----------



## HarrisLam

nope

I'll if I remember next time I get online, which is I dont know when

you can see me on channel if I do get on though

man if I play with you diamond / master ppl I'll be turtling my ass off


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> nope
> I'll if I remember next time I get online, which is I dont know when
> you can see me on channel if I do get on though
> man if I play with you diamond / master ppl I'll be turtling my ass off


It wont help. lol. YOu will just get behind. haha


----------



## sepheroth003

Well my buddy and I got to Rank 6 in our Bronze 2v2 league last night, then...

We played a few matches with Cravin and his buddy. It wasn't even fun we lost so bad. There was absolutely no challange in playing us. I lost all my confidence. We proceeded to loose 4 games in our bronze league after that. Not sure why, I just wasn't playing well at all last night, and I really think playing with the Platinum players made things worse.

BTW Cravin, why was there a big MLG Pro icon on one of you during the loading screen?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It wont help. lol. YOu will just get behind. haha


i know. It's not helping the game. It's helping my feelings.

I'd rather die in my own turtle shell than having dicks poking at my backdoor every now and then and I can't stop it, I hate that so much it's not funny. My most disliked unit in the game = mutalisk.

I'm more of a macro guy, I can't do harasses (I mean I can try, and I'll do it decently, but after I'm done I'll have about 3k minerals and 1.5k gas), and I can't deal with harasses. I hate it so much. I think that's the sole reason I'm still stuck at gold / plat really


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Well my buddy and I got to Rank 6 in our Bronze 2v2 league last night, then...
> We played a few matches with Cravin and his buddy. It wasn't even fun we lost so bad. There was absolutely no challange in playing us. I lost all my confidence. We proceeded to loose 4 games in our bronze league after that. Not sure why, I just wasn't playing well at all last night, and I really think playing with the Platinum players made things worse.
> BTW Cravin, why was there a big MLG Pro icon on one of you during the loading screen?


I think you'd have benefitted more obsing some 1v1 games (I was going to play some with some plat friends)

And the MLG badge you saw was a map Mavrick had chosen for us to do our 2v2, basically the MLG maps prevent close spawns in 1v1 (before blizzard implemented it) and placed a supply depot at the base of the ramp to prevent pylon/rax block ins vs zergs.

I am watching a replay of the first game we played and when you asked what a supply depot we thought you were joking cause your buddy was terran didn't know you were asking about the one at the base of the ramp, thats from the MLG map

The biggest problem in lower leagues (you and your buddy) is the fact that you don't macro enough. You had pretty good unit production but when you lost your army you were behind. You have to be creating units/probes even while in battle.

I've been playing SC1 since the 90's and SC2 for over a year and am only plat, I remember it took me a season to get out of 1v1 bronze, then another season or 2 to get out of 1v1 silver. Just watch replays and play games. Playing helps you get down the mechanics.

I'm sorry if you felt disrespected but we were just playing for the fun of it and not to embarass you, and after games we tried to make suggestions we noticed while playing against you.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I think you'd have benefitted more obsing some 1v1 games (I was going to play some with some plat friends)
> And the MLG badge you saw was a map Mavrick had chosen for us to do our 2v2, basically the MLG maps prevent close spawns in 1v1 (before blizzard implemented it) and placed a supply depot at the base of the ramp to prevent pylon/rax block ins vs zergs.
> The biggest problem in lower leagues (you and your buddy) is the fact that you don't macro enough. You had pretty good unit production but when you lost your army you were behind. You have to be creating units/probes even while in battle.
> I've been playing SC1 since the 90's and SC2 for over a year and am only plat, I remember it took me a season to get out of 1v1 bronze, then another season or 2 to get out of 1v1 silver. Just watch replays and play games. Playing helps you get down the mechanics.
> I'm sorry if you felt disrespected but we were just playing for the fun of it and not to embarass you, and after games we tried to make suggestions we noticed while playing against you.


No I didn't feel disrespected, just mad that I did so bad. I think it frustrated me enough that I wasn't enjoying playing. Ill have to see if I can upload a replay of a game where I feel I was playing as I should.

I played the demo of SC1 before it was released. Then played for about a year after it came out. I guess I never really played SC after it became super competetive.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Well my buddy and I got to Rank 6 in our Bronze 2v2 league last night, then...
> We played a few matches with Cravin and his buddy. It wasn't even fun we lost so bad. There was absolutely no challange in playing us. I lost all my confidence. We proceeded to loose 4 games in our bronze league after that. Not sure why, I just wasn't playing well at all last night, and I really think playing with the Platinum players made things worse.
> BTW Cravin, why was there a big MLG Pro icon on one of you during the loading screen?


so you're silver 1v1 and now having problem in 2v2, right? (I actually went back all the way to check it cuz I know you mentioned it before







)

well, most ppl are better in 1v1, because you have only 1 opponent to deal with. The easiest example would be that in 1v1, the fastest rush that will come to you is a zerg 6-pool with 6 zerglings. In 2v2, its the same rush, but have double the zerglings.

Now that you have a buddy to play with you (instead of random teams), I think you just have to polish your ability to do the following things and you should be set and will slowly proceed to at least gold within 3 months :

1) one of you are gonna scout and not let your worker die before at least having a peek at both bases. Then being able to interpret your findings. for example terran 2 rax before orbital usually = marine or MM rush. Zerg early gas = possibly roaches. Nothing in protoss base = proxying somewhere, etc etc. And then react accordingly

2) able to fend off all annoying things that come to your base before 4 minutes. And expect to help each other after that time.

3) able to organize a decent rush with your buddy before 6 minute mark if you want to

4) know what units you should build more after the first encounter

5) (for terran) scan from time to time for vital info such as colossus tech, terran possible 1-1-1 banshee harass, dark templar rush, etc, and know how to react.

6) (for protoss) get observer when you can.

7) (for protoss) learn how to forcefield well

8) know when you can expand without much risk, know when would be a good attacking time (when upgrades just finished, when your new tech unit just arrived, etc)

9) and most importantly, always remember that resources can be transferred

Don't get depress just because you lost those matches. You're still new to team games and there are things you have to get used to. Just practice more and you will surely move up


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> No I didn't feel disrespected, just mad that I did so bad. I think it frustrated me enough that I wasn't enjoying playing. Ill have to see if I can upload a replay of a game where I feel I was playing as I should.
> I played the demo of SC1 before it was released. Then played for about a year after it came out. I guess I never really played SC after it became super competetive.


I never played competitive, I was a canon/carrier noob for 3 years (but won as much as I lost in random games)

BUT I am a SC2 enthusiast now. I watch alot of casts and listen and learn.

My PvT was stolen/modified from colMinigun, my PvP is a cheesy 18 probe, 50 gas, korean 4 gate Destiny cast, my PvZ is usually a 6 gate +1 husky cast from WhiteRa (15 nexus forge fe)

I am usually a rank higher in 2's than in 1's, so i'm plat now and have a diamond 2's (we tanked with cravin just for lulz, but my other 2 accounts are silver/gold 1's with diamond 2's teams) but i'm plat 1's so diamond 2's continues the +1 2v2 rank

I got MUCH better when I stopped the 2's (after I got the basics down) and just worked on 1's for a couple weeks. I played 40+ games determined to advance in rank and succeded.


----------



## sepheroth003

Ok so some questions on specifics you mentioned above.

1) How do you defend against MM as protoss? This is more a 1v1 questions because I seem to lose to this combo a lot. I try colossus but I swear marines make them die so fast, even with the upgraded range. I just cannot get out enough colossi.

3) From what I've seen, we want the 9-10min mark. That's when he finally has enough units to join my Zealot/Stalker combo to go in. Problem is we are not terribly comfortable going out into the map. When I thought I was getting better, this was getting better. I had much better map control too!

4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.

5) My teammate is considerably worse than I am, so he doesnt scan often at all.

6) I need to get better with my obs. I usually send them over, scout around and let them sit. I noticed if they die, I generally don't replace them, probably from fear of them just dying over and over.

7) I love forcefield, I just dont make Sentries that often because generally I need the gas for other things. I am out of practice using FF much as well. That and honestly, blink stalkers are my fav strat, they work 90% of the time.

8) This is one of my biggest problems. The strat I was working on was 2 Gate fast obs FE. For some reason I have gotten away from the FE> I Think it's because I don't know how to properly defend two bases in early game (6-12mins). Cannons seem very expensive and terrible for defense. Always seems opponents micros avoid cannons and do plenty of damage to basically win the game. 2 cannons at my mineral line still loses to a 2 ship drop from terrans.

9) Yes, we do this one way too much. My teammate is terrible at spending his resources, so at the 15-20min mark I usually get a couple thousand resources. I've actually been building more warp gates expecting this to happen lately. lol

I'm considering switching to terran. I don't mind Protoss but I feel terran will get me out of some bad habits. Such as saving some resources and spending them all at once on 4-8 Warp gates. I think it will help me use more hotkeys for buildings and continually produce while fighting. I haven't really decided on this yet, just an idea I had. Oh that and I have a buddy who was diamond before masters and his terran was incredible.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Ok so some questions on specifics you mentioned above.
> 1) How do you defend against MM as protoss? This is more a 1v1 questions because I seem to lose to this combo a lot. I try colossus but I swear marines make them die so fast, even with the upgraded range. I just cannot get out enough colossi.


I posted my Pvt 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo into 7 gate 4 colossus into HT .......... well I'm only plat but still you can check the game out and I posted I hold 2-3 rax 90% of the time (check a page back).
** EDIT ** charge lots with colo/ht rape rine/rauder
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 3) From what I've seen, we want the 9-10min mark. That's when he finally has enough units to join my Zealot/Stalker combo to go in. Problem is we are not terribly comfortable going out into the map. When I thought I was getting better, this was getting better. I had much better map control too!


Pushing is great, but holding a 6 min push to do a 9 min push can put you further ahead (key is holding) Me and Mavrick (plat players) in our second game went crazy 1 rax fe into BC (him) thor/rine (me) and held your push and were on 3 bases (each) and so far ahead it was crazy (we could've lost if we didn't hold)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.


I like to do 6 gate into 1 robo into stalker, sentry, colossus (but zerg is ridiculous for toss so not even getting into that now)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 5) My teammate is considerably worse than I am, so he doesnt scan often at all.
> 6) I need to get better with my obs. I usually send them over, scout around and let them sit. I noticed if they die, I generally don't replace them, probably from fear of them just dying over and over.
> 7) I love forcefield, I just dont make Sentries that often because generally I need the gas for other things. I am out of practice using FF much as well. That and honestly, blink stalkers are my fav strat, they work 90% of the time.


Blink stalks are useless vs mass lings ........ even burrowed roaches can be annoying to defend
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 8) This is one of my biggest problems. The strat I was working on was 2 Gate fast obs FE. For some reason I have gotten away from the FE> I Think it's because I don't know how to properly defend two bases in early game (6-12mins). Cannons seem very expensive and terrible for defense. Always seems opponents micros avoid cannons and do plenty of damage to basically win the game. 2 cannons at my mineral line still loses to a 2 ship drop from terrans.


NEVER Forge FE vs terrans or protoss (reapers/prism) ONLY vs Zerg and you HAVE to vs a FE zerg or you fall behind and DIE
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 9) Yes, we do this one way too much. My teammate is terrible at spending his resources, so at the 15-20min mark I usually get a couple thousand resources. I've actually been building more warp gates expecting this to happen lately. lol
> I'm considering switching to terran. I don't mind Protoss but I feel terran will get me out of some bad habits. Such as saving some resources and spending them all at once on 4-8 Warp gates. I think it will help me use more hotkeys for buildings and continually produce while fighting. I haven't really decided on this yet, just an idea I had. Oh that and I have a buddy who was diamond before masters and his terran was incredible.


I noticed he likes to expo (tell him to make orbitals asap) so have him wall off (with a couple rines and scvs for repair) and FEED YOU MINERALS GAS

If he can't spend them you can. One of the best 2v2 (in gold/plat at least) is a zerg/terran FE feeding a 8 gate toss with blink/obs (rapeage I tell you pure rapeage

........ Vodka should be allowed to run for political office, I'd actually vote for it instead of our current choices

Sorry I'm drunk commenting ignore any/all irrevelant posts above
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.
> 
> I like to do 6 gate into 1 robo into stalker, sentry, colossus (but zerg is ridiculous for toss so not even getting into that now)


I was back in gold but sentry (5-6) + stalker + colo rapes roach, corrupter


----------



## sepheroth003

I'll have to watch that replay to see how you defended MMM.

That game where he went BCs was rediculous. So your saying the key was we should have attacked earlier with all we had basically?

Our biggest problem playing you guys was scouting. I swear I told Luko one game to send marines to every mineral line out there, he sent 2. We saw one die, and I went over there to make sure you didnt expand to it. Again one of my problems is balancing obs/immortals/collosi. Thinking I need more than 1 Robo.

We actually played a 2v2 against PZ 8 Gate. We won surprisingly! It was close, and a good game.

If we do a push at 6min, what do you think we should have for units? Specifically quantities, so I can look at replays and see where we are at.


----------



## HarrisLam

now I'm not a good protoss player but I do play as protoss from time to time, so take from my comment only the things you find useful. You're probably better off asking cravin as he's a native protoss player

against MM... I would say

at early game :

1) forcefield to cut MM in half and zealots take care of the front half

at mid game :

2) immortal to take care of marauder heavy MM

3) colossi to take care of non-marauder-heavy MM, remember to micro your colossi so they can't just stim in and kill your colossi that easily. You don't need a large number of colossi as long as you don't let them stand there and die

4) research zealot charge to combo with your colossi. What this does is that not only do your zealots look scary as hell when they fly into the MM ball 10x faster than usual and tear crap apart, this also prevent the MM ball to stim run and kill your colossi. If you decide to do this though, make sure you also research armor upgrade for the zealots so that they last longer against marines


----------



## sepheroth003

Unfortunately I learned last night that my micro ability is severly deminished by our lag here in the desert. I downloaded the Masters Pack from blizzard, the one with 30 levels. I got to level 11 and I tell you it is impossible. I can tell because at the end of the countdown I can spam left click the left side of the screen just to get my HT to move, and he literally doesn't move for like 3 seconds, I get shot before he even moves lol.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Unfortunately I learned last night that my micro ability is severly deminished by our lag here in the desert. I downloaded the Masters Pack from blizzard, the one with 30 levels. I got to level 11 and I tell you it is impossible. I can tell because at the end of the countdown I can spam left click the left side of the screen just to get my HT to move, and he literally doesn't move for like 3 seconds, I get shot before he even moves lol.


basic micro isn't needed before gold

good micro isn't needed before platinum

I'm one of those guys just play with a laid back style. I dont follow any build orders in early game and basically just build to spend (no gas = marines, have extra gas = marauders, even more gas = tech to factory, if i have extra minerals i build supply depot first, even more minerals then I build a command center in my base, etc)

most of the time I just spend when I can, and when I feel like it, and I'm still gold / plat

it's not as hard as you might think


----------



## sepheroth003

I agree macro is more important than micro.


----------



## HarrisLam

yes, at least at the leagues we are in

most of the time having the biggest (and correct) army wins you the game with little to no micro, with the only exception being siege tanks and banelings.

dang man all these discussions make me want to play so much, unfortunately still at work









got so tired / busy lately there were a few times I got in the game, went away to do something else, came back found out I wasn't at a good physical state to play something this intense and just got back offline without playing a single game, logged off computer and went to bed

we should organize a 4v4 some time, with 1 master player leading each side and battle it out


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I agree macro is more important than micro.


Until you get to high diamond.

Once you are high diamond your macro and mechanics are supposed to be in the top 90%, then you start to realize bad choices, and bad engagements (micro) will make the difference in between you lose or win.


----------



## sepheroth003

Last night I played with my buddy from home. We were plat 2v2 in season 1 & 2. We only got into silver, not sure why he was playing worse than I and usually he's considerably better than me.

We also played 3v3 with my buddy from here in the desert. My buddy at home basically said he wont play with him again. My buddy here is pretty terrible lol. I'm really trying to help him, he's just not catching on that quick.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Last night I played with my buddy from home. We were plat 2v2 in season 1 & 2. We only got into silver, not sure why he was playing worse than I and usually he's considerably better than me.
> We also played 3v3 with my buddy from here in the desert. My buddy at home basically said he wont play with him again. My buddy here is pretty terrible lol. I'm really trying to help him, he's just not catching on that quick.


maybe i should join you guys for 3v3s in the weekends heh

since a full arranged team will have a separate ranking with my random 3v3, i won't mind an inferior teammate

just makes winning all that sweeter









I'm also terran so maybe he could pick up a thing or 2 from me while playing against different situations?


----------



## thenailedone

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread (so many posts already) or in another thread...

Do the OCN players playing on the EU server have a channel on Battlenet?

Nailed


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> maybe i should join you guys for 3v3s in the weekends heh
> since a full arranged team will have a separate ranking with my random 3v3, i won't mind an inferior teammate
> just makes winning all that sweeter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also terran so maybe he could pick up a thing or 2 from me while playing against different situations?


If you haven't caught this, were in Afghanistan right now. So our schedules are all jacked up. We literally can't plan a specific time to play, we just play when we can. If you posted your name and number previously, I'll add you and see if we ever catch you. Thanks


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> If you haven't caught this, were in Afghanistan right now. So our schedules are all jacked up. We literally can't plan a specific time to play, we just play when we can. If you posted your name and number previously, I'll add you and see if we ever catch you. Thanks


in another news, I'm in asia

So i guess we are even









Ya you can check a few pages back for my player code, name is same with what i have here
you will see me in the channel everytime i get online also


----------



## Yukss

kinda confuse how blizzard laddering works, and all about th MMR thing, i was plat 1v1, then i lost few matches and demoted straitgh to silver , wth...


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> kinda confuse how blizzard laddering works, and all about th MMR thing, i was plat 1v1, then i lost few matches and demoted straitgh to silver , wth...


There's a thread on TL that explains leagues and ladders in depth: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273



















The game won't promote or demote you until you're winning at about 50% - you can go on a tear in the Bronze league and play Gold or Platinum kids before getting promoted, or you could be in Gold and face a Masters player trying to intentionally tank himself. You probably had an extended period of time where you won 40-45% of your games and didn't notice until you evened out and it reclassified you. In the end, you're still playing opponents of roughly the same skill level as you were yesterday, you just have a different league icon.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenailedone*
> 
> Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread (so many posts already) or in another thread...
> Do the OCN players playing on the EU server have a channel on Battlenet?
> Nailed


There is an overclock.net channel on EU server. It's kind of empty though. I always idle there when I'm online and I often see RlndVt, but that's pretty much it.


----------



## thenailedone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> There is an overclock.net channel on EU server. It's kind of empty though. I always idle there when I'm online and I often see RlndVt, but that's pretty much it.


I had a few guys on my friends list from here a while ago (when there was talk of doing some practice like the guys on the American server were doing)... and I am almost convinced I had a Blinker on there







(Have removed all of the names when I got inactive, shouldn't have)...

I will also pop into the channel when on-line, hope I catch you or someone there then









Nailed

Username there now - nlsthzn (don't know code and not at home currently) (used to be SumTingWong but that was just stupid







)


----------



## Anti!!

Thats just hilarious. haha


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> There's a thread on TL that explains leagues and ladders in depth: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The game won't promote or demote you until you're winning at about 50% - you can go on a tear in the Bronze league and play Gold or Platinum kids before getting promoted, or you could be in Gold and face a Masters player trying to intentionally tank himself. You probably had an extended period of time where you won 40-45% of your games and didn't notice until you evened out and it reclassified you. In the end, you're still playing opponents of roughly the same skill level as you were yesterday, you just have a different league icon.


ths very much .. very help link..


----------



## HarrisLam

is it just me? or do ppl play worse in 3v3 than they do in 4v4?

I figured it might have something to do with 3v3 having less maps with jointed bases

But it still can't explain why I'm losing way more 3v3's, cuz if ppl generally play worse than so should the opposing team...

so strange....


----------



## connectwise

Without numerical evidence we will never know for sure.

Did any of you guys catch the EPIC ZvP last night in the GSTL with ogstl vs mvp?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> is it just me? or do ppl play worse in 3v3 than they do in 4v4?
> I figured it might have something to do with 3v3 having less maps with jointed bases
> But it still can't explain why I'm losing way more 3v3's, cuz if ppl generally play worse than so should the opposing team...
> so strange....


I don't play 3v3 or 4v4 at all because people go in to do dumb builds like tech straight to carriers, void rays, mass mutas everygame while I have to cover for them. Also it is easy to have 3-4 people attack one persons base and destroy it. You can also get carried easily in 3v3, 4v4. I ahve seen players in bronze/silver in 1v1 who are plat/diamond in 3v3/4v4. I stick to 1v1 and 2v2 for team games. At least in 2v2 I can try to carry my ally or have a better chance of surviving. Lastly there isn't a lot of pressure to play 100% compared to 1v1 where if you lose it is your fault


----------



## -SE7EN-

custom map question. in the beta, there was a map similar to the nexus defenders map, although shorter distance to your opponents base. instead of a nexus, each player had there own statue, i think it was a wolf statue, they had to keep alive. it was infamous for mass blink stalkers getting stuck going to your opponents base. anyone know the name of this map?


----------



## Yukss

can a bronze player play againts a diamond one ? answer.. YES... i did.. and i won..



i always play againt silvers and golds and even plats, but never diamond, most of the time i win the games, so WTH happend with my promotion, will i be forever bronze ?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> can a bronze player play againts a diamond one ? answer.. YES... i did.. and i won..
> 
> i always play againt silvers and golds and even plats, but never diamond, most of the time i win the games, so WTH happend with my promotion, will i be forever bronze ?


I seen a post where a grandmaster faced a bronze player it was from reddit and was legit. The reason you faced a diamond was if you checked his match history it should show a lot of losses. He probably was tanking his mmr or got placed in plat when he was really a lower league player and probably got demoted by now


----------



## sepheroth003

Like the previous pic, how do you have the same resource score with lower units AND structures. I've had this happen on a couple games I lost, and I was broke at the end of the game so not like I was building resources.

Had a good night last night, won 2 of 3 in 1v1, 3 of 4 in 2v2 with my plat teammate (we lost one rush), and 2 of 2 in 3v3 with both my buddies. My buddy that is terrible actually stepped it up last night and helped us attack. Good stuff.

Harris I meant to add you last night, I literally forgot because my friend from back home was on. I'll try to remember tonight.


----------



## CravinR1

Pick one problem and work on it over 9 or 10 games til you get rid of the problem


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Like the previous pic, how do you have the same resource score with lower units AND structures. I've had this happen on a couple games I lost, and I was broke at the end of the game so not like I was building resources.
> Had a good night last night, won 2 of 3 in 1v1, 3 of 4 in 2v2 with my plat teammate (we lost one rush), and 2 of 2 in 3v3 with both my buddies. My buddy that is terrible actually stepped it up last night and helped us attack. Good stuff.
> Harris I meant to add you last night, I literally forgot because my friend from back home was on. I'll try to remember tonight.


that was cuz i lifted up my command center to gold minerals and i won by using 3 barracks nonstop marine push


----------



## aStupidTroll

hi , is it currently possible to update the beta ? could someone give me a way to do it ? would be nice


----------



## HarrisLam

@sepheroth003 just come to channel if you get on. you will see me there

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I don't play 3v3 or 4v4 at all because people go in to do dumb builds like tech straight to carriers, void rays, mass mutas everygame while I have to cover for them. Also it is easy to have 3-4 people attack one persons base and destroy it. You can also get carried easily in 3v3, 4v4. I ahve seen players in bronze/silver in 1v1 who are plat/diamond in 3v3/4v4. I stick to 1v1 and 2v2 for team games. At least in 2v2 I can try to carry my ally or have a better chance of surviving. Lastly there isn't a lot of pressure to play 100% compared to 1v1 where if you lose it is your fault


what you said is very true

I used to think like you do, I am *CONSTANTLY* at the top 2 of my end game charts, every single game without the presence of diamond players or above (if its a short game though, I can still be as high as them in the resources and army departments)

I used to think that I usually do the best in my team, if my team does useful stuff, we win, if my team sucks to the point I can't save it, we lose. (there are also failures against cheese and using wrong strats as a whole etc, but that's irrelevant here)

Also there's the problem of magnified cheese in multiplayer, I don't care what you say, the best player in the world can't beat 18 lings at 6-pool timing

In 1v1 games you only have to be responsible for yourself, you have 1 enemy to take care of, whereas in 2, 3 and 4's its not the case. Often times I actually get strong enough to fight 2 enemies, but it so happens that its a 4v4 and we still have to lose. I myself have tried a 1v3, with 1 teammate left game early and the other mid game, and won the thing cuz my opponents aren't that good. And I'm just gold. Just goes to show that a BIG portion of multiplayer games depend on luck. If I get even half decent teammates, I have a pretty good chance to win, if I get bad ones, it's gonna be hard, and if I get newbie teammates with no teamwork, I can even win by myself.

I also found that I won a lot more games in 1v1 than in 2, 3 or 4's ever since I was in top bronze season 1.

But things have changed. Not for the game, but for me.

I used to be able to play 2 hours a day, and like 4 or more hours each day in weekends. Now i have way less time. It also seems that my "eagerness" to play these games that I own is fading (a dangerous sign)

SC is an intense game. In the first 2 seasons I played a lot of 1v1's and I constantly suffered from anxiousness and loss of sleep etc. Now that I can't even play that much I focus on playing 4v4 mainly and noticed I can play the game with a more relaxed mind. It seems that the brain thinks I'm responsible for less things, and if something comes to mess with me, there are others that can watch my back. And if I lose, there are others the share it with me.

True or not, that's a nice feeling to have.


----------



## perfectblade

Nothing is really balanced except 1v1. 2v2 just devolves into rushing I feel


----------



## CravinR1

When I watch pro's 2v2 its always 1 base all in with proxies and such


----------



## poroboszcz

How about a pro FFA?










http://drop.sc/128997


----------



## 13321G4

I just had an 'epiphany', but it's midnight so it could also be just plain stupid.

Imagine a PvZ, standard FFE opening into phoenix, the standard goal is to harass with phoenixes and send +1 zealots at the third. Timing number 1.
Standard response? Hydra's, so Robotics Bay for colossi. You only get 2 gasses.

Timing number 2: Warp Prism
After you finish with +1 attack you get +1 armor.
After/during the attack you add a second forge, twilight council and a robotics bay with which you get a warp prism asap. Kill all the overlords that can be in the path of the WP with your Phoenixes. Mass warp-in directed at the mineral line.
(Isn't this a beautiful triple pronged attack? One at each enemy base?)

(Timing number 3: Charge (& colossi)
During the last attack you took your gasses, maybe an expo, and you are starting colossi production (1 robo), range and +2+2. This is a lot of gas but I am hoping to squeeze charge out as well. Hopefully you have managed to safe your WP (maybe start WP speed before range). When Charge finishes do another triple pronged push.)

You might think that triple attacks might require a gazillion APM, but I am imagining mainly Zealot based armies.
Load 4 zealots in the WP. Hot-key army that is waiting outside enemy base and move phoenixes close to main. Move WP into position and set it to phasing mode, drop zealots and warp-in some more. Rally into mineral line. Select frontal assault army, and a-move them into second base. Jump to phoenixes and see how many drones/queens you can kill in the main.

Zealots are so a-move friendly. Roaches kill them IF micro'd, but you are harassing with phoenixes thus he can not pay attention to your zealots, allowing them to close the cap and slaughter the roaches. If he sees the zealots as a greater threat, free drone kills with the phoenixes!

Oh how gloriously powerful Protoss is


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I just had an 'epiphany', but it's midnight so it could also be just plain stupid.
> 
> Imagine a PvZ, standard FFE opening into phoenix, the standard goal is to harass with phoenixes and send +1 zealots at the third. Timing number 1.
> Standard response? Hydra's, so Robotics Bay for colossi. You only get 2 gasses.
> 
> Timing number 2: Warp Prism
> After you finish with +1 attack you get +1 armor.
> After/during the attack you add a second forge, twilight council and a robotics bay with which you get a warp prism asap. Kill all the overlords that can be in the path of the WP with your Phoenixes. Mass warp-in directed at the mineral line.
> (Isn't this a beautiful triple pronged attack? One at each enemy base?)
> 
> (Timing number 3: Charge (& colossi)
> During the last attack you took your gasses, maybe an expo, and you are starting colossi production (1 robo), range and +2+2. This is a lot of gas but I am hoping to squeeze charge out as well. Hopefully you have managed to safe your WP (maybe start WP speed before range). When Charge finishes do another triple pronged push.)
> 
> You might think that triple attacks might require a gazillion APM, but I am imagining mainly Zealot based armies.
> Load 4 zealots in the WP. Hot-key army that is waiting outside enemy base and move phoenixes close to main. Move WP into position and set it to phasing mode, drop zealots and warp-in some more. Rally into mineral line. Select frontal assault army, and a-move them into second base. Jump to phoenixes and see how many drones/queens you can kill in the main.
> 
> Zealots are so a-move friendly. Roaches kill them IF micro'd, but you are harassing with phoenixes thus he can not pay attention to your zealots, allowing them to close the cap and slaughter the roaches. If he sees the zealots as a greater threat, free drone kills with the phoenixes!
> 
> Oh how gloriously powerful Protoss is


Well, I wouldn't go hydras against pheonix / zealot. Hydras are too slow. Rather, roaches + spore crawlers into mutas.
Mutas / spore crawlers negates your second timing attack. If I saw a robo / collosis I would start getting corrupters/more roaches at first and go into ultralisks/infestors if possible. Then late late game with Broodlords + corrupters.

Too many variables to say for sure though


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Pick one problem and work on it over 9 or 10 games til you get rid of the problem


You say play 9 or 10 games so carelessly. .. .. lol!!

Im lucky to get that many IN EVAR!


----------



## QuadDamage

Lets play some gamez


----------



## HarrisLam

why you guys never get online on saturday nights?

strange

you guys on east or west coast?


----------



## HometownHero

I'm on east coast. I was on with Anti Friday night for some practice games. Was on Saturday night too. Don't forget to set the "overclock.net" chat channel on auto-join and speak up in it if you want to play.


----------



## Anti!!

Im east. I was on until 10:30 p.m. central


----------



## -SE7EN-

I'm not on alot, but I never see more than 1 other person in the overclock.net channel. Is this how it usually is, or am I just on at the wrong time?


----------



## -SE7EN-

double post, sorry - delete


----------



## sepheroth003

I actually got on the OCN channel the other night (Valitri), but I was runnign 3s with my other two buddies so didnt have time to do anything else.


----------



## HarrisLam

i think that's the problem, you guys all on east coast. Time zone difference between me and you guys will be bigger. I think its either 11 or 13 hours now due to winter time.

basically when i wake up in saturday or sunday mornings (and its not like I sit at my computer and fire up starcraft right after I roll out of bed you know) it will already be midnight over at your side....and if you guys are on west then it would be something like 9pm

you guys are hard to catch


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i think that's the problem, you guys all on east coast. Time zone difference between me and you guys will be bigger. I think its either 11 or 13 hours now due to winter time.
> basically when i wake up in saturday or sunday mornings (and its not like I sit at my computer and fire up starcraft right after I roll out of bed you know) it will already be midnight over at your side....and if you guys are on west then it would be something like 9pm
> you guys are hard to catch


I saw you logged on Sat night, but like I said I was just already in 3s. Of course it helps I'm close to your time for now.


----------



## HarrisLam

Sorry I missed what you said









You saw me on sat night? I didn't see anybody online at that time I think.... D:

I don't know why.... I remember seeing a person called "exalted" or something on the channel on friday night along with other regulars only


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Sorry I missed what you said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You saw me on sat night? I didn't see anybody online at that time I think.... D:
> I don't know why.... I remember seeing a person called "exalted" or something on the channel on friday night along with other regulars only


I added you on the friends list. I think by the time you accepted or were on I had already left the OCN channel


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I added you on the friends list. I think by the time you accepted or were on I had already left the OCN channel


adding friend probably doesn't need approval? i don't remember accepting anything









Heh, whatever, I'll see when we meet next time


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> adding friend probably doesn't need approval? i don't remember accepting anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, whatever, I'll see when we meet next time


Ya possibly since I had the code. I saw you on the list though, pretty sure you were on. Oh well, we'll hook up on there sometime.


----------



## Sainesk

I think i'm going to remake our division on sc2ranks - since I didn't create it, I don't have the password to manage it.
Meaning I can't remove names - and I'm a little skeptical that IMMvp is an OCNer...

I can re-add everyone else, so no-one has to do anything.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I think i'm going to remake our division on sc2ranks - since I didn't create it, I don't have the password to manage it.
> Meaning I can't remove names - and I'm a little skeptical that *IMMvp is an OCNer.*..
> I can re-add everyone else, so no-one has to do anything.


......HUH?

Entombed Valley.zip 18k .zip file


This is a game I played on saturday I believe?

It's a short game so it won't waste a lot of your time

Haven't got BMed in a while, especially from a guy who did that to me









I didn't even see his scout..... I was shocked to see in the replay that he actually scouted, and then LMAO

Noticed my macro slipped to the ground when engagement occurred. There are still so much to practice on

Comment on how I did? I know I didn't do really well, its just that he didn't do good in the engagement and he gave up so easily.

PS: question though, isn't EPM supposed to be EffectivePM? So EPM should also be *lower* than APM? I fired that up and saw the exact opposite? his EPM was so high...... and my 2 pieces of data are identical


----------



## Sainesk

Ok done, http://sc2ranks.com/c/12037/official-ocn-division/

if you're not added it's probably because you haven't played any games this season. You can either add yourself through "Manage characters" and paste the URL of your battle.net profile or sc2ranks.com profile, or mention either of those in your next post in this thread and i'll add you.


----------



## HarrisLam

how does someone has 1k points when the bonus point has only given 200?

its not like he wins a lot more than he loses.....


----------



## poroboszcz

You get more bonus pool in master league. Also when you play against favoured opponents you get many points for wins and lose few for loses.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Ok done, http://sc2ranks.com/c/12037/official-ocn-division/
> if you're not added it's probably because you haven't played any games this season. You can either add yourself through "Manage characters" and paste the URL of your battle.net profile or sc2ranks.com profile, or mention either of those in your next post in this thread and i'll add you.


You can go ahead and add me!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2003400/1/SpaceCore/


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ......HUH?
> 
> Entombed Valley.zip 18k .zip file
> 
> This is a game I played on saturday I believe?
> It's a short game so it won't waste a lot of your time
> Haven't got BMed in a while, especially from a guy who did that to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even see his scout..... I was shocked to see in the replay that he actually scouted, and then LMAO
> Noticed my macro slipped to the ground when engagement occurred. There are still so much to practice on
> Comment on how I did? I know I didn't do really well, its just that he didn't do good in the engagement and he gave up so easily.
> PS: question though, isn't EPM supposed to be EffectivePM? So EPM should also be *lower* than APM? I fired that up and saw the exact opposite? his EPM was so high...... and my 2 pieces of data are identical


What league is this?


----------



## HometownHero

Thoughts on patch 1.5? Sounds like they are all good changes for Bnet. I'm just wondering why it took them one and a half years to implement it...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Ok done, http://sc2ranks.com/c/12037/official-ocn-division/
> if you're not added it's probably because you haven't played any games this season. You can either add yourself through "Manage characters" and paste the URL of your battle.net profile or sc2ranks.com profile, or mention either of those in your next post in this thread and i'll add you.


Sweet Sainesk!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Thoughts on patch 1.5? Sounds like they are all good changes for Bnet. I'm just wondering why it took them one and a half years to implement it...


WHO WHAT WHERE? i need to look to comment.

EDIT: Where is it?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> WHO WHAT WHERE? i need to look to comment.
> 
> EDIT: Where is it?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4592755/Developer_Update_with_Game_Director_Dustin_Browder_-3_12_2012


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Thoughts on patch 1.5? Sounds like they are all good changes for Bnet. I'm just wondering why it took them one and a half years to implement it...


They're claiming it's the biggest patch yet, but that summary doesn't really tell us anything aside from the fact that they're releasing a better custom game system.


----------



## NguyenAdam

I would really appreciate it if you guys could tune in to my friends stream and show him some support! Top 8 Masters Terran player from sponsered team http://www.area51gaming.com/.

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/NaEjeOn88


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> What league is this?


its plat

huh? what? yea i know


----------



## ntherblast

Was playing 2v2 and got an ally who was from Brasil. He clearly stated he was brasilian and started speaking spanish. I was about to quit because in past mmorpgs/rts most brasilians I played with are brain dead. Surprisingly we won.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Was playing 2v2 and got an ally who was from Brasil. He clearly stated he was brasilian and started speaking spanish. I was about to quit because in past mmorpgs/rts most brasilians I played with are brain dead. Surprisingly we won.


LOL I hate to say this, but I agree. They're always real nice and polite but not very great skill wise. They always seem to have TONS of time to play though. Speaking primarily for MMOs.


----------



## Anti!!

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SC1/wc3 esk channels, and social communication!

I look forward to this patch. I think they are at least listening to the community. Why they didnt do it sooner? probably the same reason i didnt know there was really anything to complain about till recent. haha


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SC1/wc3 esk channels, and social communication!


WooHoo!!!! clan wars and channel-flooding!!!!! Who has proxies?!?!?!!?!?


----------



## CravinR1

Does anyone else actually have WC3 ?

I do:


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Does anyone else actually have WC3 ?
> I do:


I do but what does the have to do with sc2 discussion thread?


----------



## NguyenAdam

I still have the WC3 disk. PFTT who likes to download digitally? WC3 custom maps >>>>>>> SC2. Bring back Impossible Bosses!!!


----------



## CravinR1

I also have the wc3 disk from when I bought it when it was FIRST RELEASED, I just entered the cd key onto my bnet account.

And WC3 and SC2 are very related







Ask Grubby


----------



## NguyenAdam

WC3 was way too micro intensive for me. I couldn't play it. >.>


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> what does that have to do with sc2 discussion thread?


I guess one thing is how quite a few pro WC3 veterans made it into the GSL and other tournaments back when competitive SC2 was taking off, although I'm not sure how many still compete today... would be curious to know.

edit: Season 7 Map vote http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4593795/New_Maps_In_Old_Map_Out-3_13_2012#blog
Quote:


> We recently invited you to help us choose two Global StarCraft II League (GSL) maps for the StarCraft II ladder map pool. We're excited to now announce the winners of that poll. These GSL tournament maps will be joining the ladder pool in season 7:
> 
> Daybreak
> 
> Metropolis
> 
> In addition, Ohana, the community created map by IronManSC and Team ESV, will also be joining the map pool.
> Not only will Daybreak, Metropolis, and Ohana be joining the map pool, but we're also experimenting with expanding the overall size of the pool from eight maps to ten in season 7.
> Even though the pool is growing larger, *this means that one of the old maps must go*. Now it's time to cast your vote on the map you believe should be retired from the season 7 ladder pool. One week from today, we'll tally your votes and bid farewell to the map you selected.


Personally, i'm not really a fan of Entombed...


----------



## HarrisLam

i read it as obama when i saw that in the 2nd paragraph i was like dayum









i own the wc3 disks and played dota for 5 years before i quited it about 3 years ago, so that goes way back









war3 custom maps DID >> sc2 imo also, i feel its mainly because of the built-in item slots and the hero system, stats etc. these things allow for a lot more possibilities in creating maps where you only control one unit

the only popular category sc2 can possibly win on is TD, only because of the graphics really


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i read it as obama when i saw that in the 2nd paragraph i was like dayum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i own the wc3 disks and played dota for 5 years before i quited it about 3 years ago, so that goes way back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> war3 custom maps DID >> sc2 imo also, i feel its mainly because of the built-in item slots and the hero system, stats etc. these things allow for a lot more possibilities in creating maps where you only control one unit
> the only popular category sc2 can possibly win on is TD, only because of the graphics really


IF you ask me the biggest downfall of the custom map scene was the popularity feature sad that it took them 2 years to figure this out. Actually they probably knew from the start but were too lazy to remove it. Imagine if you were a mapmaker you would spend more time advertising your map than actually working on it because of the popularity feature also I got quite tired of seeing the same couple pages. I use to religiously only play custom maps in sc1/wc3 because of the variety of maps. I would discover new maps everyday even though dota took up a lot of slots


----------



## This Sanctuary

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> IF you ask me the biggest downfall of the custom map scene was the popularity feature sad that it took them 2 years to figure this out. Actually they probably knew from the start but were too lazy to remove it. Imagine if you were a mapmaker you would spend more time advertising your map than actually working on it because of the popularity feature also I got quite tired of seeing the same couple pages. I use to religiously only play custom maps in sc1/wc3 because of the variety of maps. I would discover new maps everyday even though dota took up a lot of slots


I agree, I dont know why blizzard deciding to get rid of the way b.net used to be. Where you would essentially host a server, and you could choose the name and settings and whatnot. And then people would see a list of "servers" to choose from. It was so much easier to play a somewhat unheard of custom game then, but nowadays they stand no chance.

If they would have added some kind of filter system to the way things worked before, so you could filter out all the DOTA maps, and also expanded on how many games you could see at a time. Also they should have put a refresh button for the host to be able to use, to keep his game bumped, which you could only use every minute or whatever.

I also liked how you would log into essentially a chat channel, I think it encouraged social aspects of the game, compared to b.net 2.0 feels like a ghosttown.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> IF you ask me the biggest downfall of the custom map scene was the popularity feature sad that it took them 2 years to figure this out. Actually they probably knew from the start but were too lazy to remove it. Imagine if you were a mapmaker you would spend more time advertising your map than actually working on it because of the popularity feature also I got quite tired of seeing the same couple pages. I use to religiously only play custom maps in sc1/wc3 because of the variety of maps. I would discover new maps everyday even though dota took up a lot of slots


oh? are they removing the popularity bar this time? didn't read the log

I like to discover new TDs too, other maps? not so much.....I mean....a lot of times I find myself wasting 30mins and still don't know what I was doing, or what I was doing all that for

for example, I didn't even understand how Night of the Dead work, never did. Played it a few times, still never understood it. It got me wondering "man just how do these people know where to go, they even know when the monsters will come and stuff"

Oh man did I miss dota, I started playing before the "stable and semi-balanced" version 5.36, thats when it wasnt that well known and popular, TD and other games still rule the game list. still liked the old school 5 small items to become 1 imba item







both gameplay and Bnet environment has changed since then. Way more heros, generally weaker items, people even came up with bot-hosts that eliminated latency (at least in my local area). Wonder how it is now.

if everything scheduled for this year all arrive on time, I will have a hard time deciding on which to buy though, dota 2 is probably not gonna be top 2









I also miss a TD called skibi TD. IMO the best TD in warcraft 3(possibly best ever), because of the incredible balance (except the last level







) and the omg-so-addictive mini-games between rounds


----------



## sepheroth003

I won't lie, I think I am already getting burnt out on SC2. It's too demanding for time and skill. I miss my casual, very little skill required WoW. I like games that require skill, played in leagues in CS, but I'm just not nearly as good at RTS as FPS and it isn't as fun beacuse of it. I'm not sure I want to put forth the effort to become really good.

On topic. I never did really play WC3. I played 1 and 2, then SC. Played DOTA like twice, didnt fully understand it but it was cool. I've played League of Legends a couple times, which is like DOTA. It has a real steep learning curve.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

It is quite demanding. You'd have to invest a lot of time and effort in order to reach higher ranks, but there's no problem just staying where you are now. If you're comfortable playing the random game here and there and not have to worry about your 1v1 ladder ranking, I say just play casually. No need to quit. It is a game after all.

Hell, the most fun I've had with this game was back in Bronze where I massed Battlecruisers and Void Rays. Those were the days.


----------



## HarrisLam

yes, SC is quite mentally demanding. It would need quite some getting used to, it also requires a lot of time practicing.

BUT once you get the basics down, ie getting into high silver / gold, you could relax by playing team games, the more players around you the more relaxed it is







(the reason you need to get to silver or above is to avoid low bronze teammates who knows nothing and only wish to steal a win from his teammates)

You dont need to worry about losing those team games because you are never at fault. It's always your teammates









you dont need the skills to continue playing this game, what you need is stamina. Why do you have to be good? Just enjoy the games


----------



## thenailedone

Decided yesterday I have to play my placement matches... finished them today (shows how much I play







) and I got into the Silver League, a step up from where I ended a few seasons ago









Nailed


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenailedone*
> 
> Decided yesterday I have to play my placement matches... finished them today (shows how much I play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and I got into the Silver League, a step up from where I ended a few seasons ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nailed


Congrats

On another note. I own all dem blizzard games!!


----------



## HarrisLam

even that lost viking crap?

Some of my ex-coworkers tried to bring back the moment and started playing D2 together, I got interested so I tried the game for the first time hoping that i could join them in coop games later

my eyes can't survive through the first 30 minutes of the game


----------



## Anti!!

Hahaha. You sgould only do that with sc1. Unless you are a diehard diablo fan.

Diablo III Is great.


----------



## HometownHero

Despite all the *****ing about the game being cartoony, I think d3 looks really nice. I'm in the beta and the background is really well done.


----------



## HarrisLam

i think everyone is in beta nowadays lol, except foreigners that is.

I have no doubts about D3's capability and game system, though I'd really wish it had stunning graphics.

I'm not talking about style, just the general quality. (though you gotta admit, its a little difficult to be torchlight and crysis at the same time)

I know I know, Blizzard has never been about intense graphics. I know that, but as a graphics guy it's just a secret wish of mine.

May I request D3 and GW2 come together and make a baby?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i read it as obama when i saw that in the 2nd paragraph i was like dayum


map in the shape of the USA?









hehe, anyway I think it looks like a fun map,



love how Blizzard is finally adding GSL and community maps.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i think everyone is in beta nowadays lol, except foreigners that is.
> I have no doubts about D3's capability and game system, though I'd really wish it had stunning graphics.
> I'm not talking about style, just the general quality. (though you gotta admit, its a little difficult to be torchlight and crysis at the same time)
> I know I know, Blizzard has never been about intense graphics. I know that, but as a graphics guy it's just a secret wish of mine.
> May I request D3 and GW2 come together and make a baby?


I actually think gw2 is a little too cartoony for my tastes. The character models left me disappointed.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I actually think gw2 is a little too cartoony for my tastes. The character models left me disappointed.


we are thinking about different departments there.

I was talking about graphic style, as in the way the *textures* look, examples will be league of legends and torchlight, or borderlands

you are talking about how the *characters* and *objects* look? I suppose?

I actually love those, haha, just cuz I'm asian. Like them facial expressions.


----------



## CravinR1

I have had Diablo 3 beta for weeks and havn't finished it yet. I played for a bit but lost interest. And this is from someone who beat Diablo and most of Diablo 2


----------



## Anti!!

I want a broodwar snow map. I just loved that tile set. With the lush green grass just barely peaking out of the melting snow.


----------



## perfectblade

I hate diablo graphic style. I wish it was realistic like sc2 (besides the buildings, which look odd, like they zoomed in too close


----------



## Razultull

Hi guys im a mid master protoss its been a good 6 months since ive been to this thread, how y'alll doing?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Hey there. I've seen you in the OCN channel. Welcome to the thread!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> Hi guys im a mid master protoss its been a good 6 months since ive been to this thread, how y'alll doing?


Razultull!!!!!!

Man i thought you had given up bro!!!

Its so good to see you on. lol OH!!, Im RaGinNyDusDS just in case you dont recognize my Anti!! handle.


----------



## Razultull

not given up bro i am usually laddering on my 2 alt accounts







trying to get my terran up to the same level as my protoss, and the one for ****s and giggles although it now has the same mmr as my main!_!


----------



## CravinR1

Here is how you hold a 6 pool + drone all in as protoss:

Metalopolis (5) PvZ Gold 6 pool.zip 25k .zip file


(Yes my placements could've been better but I was under pressure to get it up)


----------



## Anti!!

Six pools are ez pz to hold off.









Its those drone all in six pools that will take work.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> not given up bro i am usually laddering on my 2 alt accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trying to get my terran up to the same level as my protoss, and the one for ****s and giggles although it now has the same mmr as my main!_!


Yea. Lol i just meant as far as posting. Lol


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Six pools are ez pz to hold off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its those drone all in six pools that will take work.


That was a drone all in 6 pool


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> That was a drone all in 6 pool


Ohs. Wondered if it was after i hit submit. Lol on my phone. :/


----------



## DoomDash

Loving playing on Korea.


----------



## HarrisLam

just had a 8 toss game, all I did was getting DT'd and then won the game









another game....I got cannon rushed as protoss, I actually saved up enough for double expand before that guy killed my nexus I was making my way coming back, making really good progress, i mean REALLY GOOD PROGRESS, and I can't believe my teammates getting owned 1 by 1 right before I was on my way to awesomeness. I was top of the chart at the end. That's so disappointing, thinking I could still beat them with double expand (essentially one expand cuz my main got killed).

I tried so hard too.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea. Lol i just meant as far as posting. Lol


yea lol i had given up for a while


----------



## 13321G4

That awesome moment when you're build order 'hard counters' your opponents









2 gate pressure (double ^.^) expand vs 1 rax FE.

2 gate FE vs 1 Rax.zip 59k .zip file


Only question I have is: at a certain point I was maxed and he started dropping. I decided not to rebuild my probes because I thought I had enough. At the end I had almost no income. I believe I should have kept producing.
Opinions?


----------



## ntherblast

It's impossible to play 2v2 randoms on weekends cause all the kids are off school/work so all you face is arranged teams sigh


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> It's impossible to play 2v2 randoms on weekends cause all the kids are off school/work so all you face is arranged teams sigh


then play 4v4









2v2 is hard

i found the easiest modes are 1v1 and 4v4

1v1 because theres only so much he can have, and 4v4 because i macro better than micro


----------



## Anti!!

I had forgotten how TERRIBLE the AMD 9600 BE is!!!

I have sold all of my good processors in an effort to get enough to go full Intel. So, the only one i have is the one i snatched outta my pops computer. DANG!!!! I was playing a 4v4c fastest on lowest settings and i was getting 0fps!!!

With my sig specs below minus the PHii


----------



## Sainesk

Yea, this game loves the CPU, the night 2 die custom game is one of my fave CPU stress tests lol









what are you planning on getting?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Just got promoted to Diamond after grinding a ton of games in the past 2 days. Pretty happy with myself. Now to change my avatar...


----------



## HarrisLam

congrats! that's pretty fast

Man I wish I could see that diamond badge in my profiles sometime before this game dies out


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> then play 4v4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2v2 is hard
> i found the easiest modes are 1v1 and 4v4
> 1v1 because theres only so much he can have, and 4v4 because i macro better than micro


I stay away from 3v3/4v4 because you can't really improve in these modes like I said before players can get carried and it's easy to all in 1 player in these modes. Everyone just does dumb builds that almost never work in 1v1 like tech straight to void rays/carriers not that this doesn't happen in 2v2 it's just less likely.


----------



## thenailedone

SC2 MENA Cup #18 streaming live in about 10 minutes... - http://www.twitch.tv/gaming420tv if anyone one wants to check it out.

Nailed


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yea, this game loves the CPU, the night 2 die custom game is one of my fave CPU stress tests lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what are you planning on getting?


I plan on getting a 2500k or 2600k but if things keep dragging like they are i may be in time for ivy bridge.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Just got promoted to Diamond after grinding a ton of games in the past 2 days. Pretty happy with myself. Now to change my avatar...


Congrats! I remember when i made it to top diamond.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> congrats! that's pretty fast
> Man I wish I could see that diamond badge in my profiles sometime before this game dies out


This game wont die out. Lol sc1 ran strong until release of sc2. To talk like that is blaspheme!! Haha. You will get there. You just gotta focus in 1v1the only. Alot of games is key.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> This game wont die out. Lol sc1 ran strong until release of sc2. To talk like that is blaspheme!! Haha. You will get there. You just gotta focus in 1v1the only. Alot of games is key.


which i can never do









by dying out i just mean in among my inventory of games


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> which i can never do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by dying out i just mean in among my inventory of games


XD


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> XD


aright man i just did 2 1v1 games and lost both of them

the first one was a plain stupid loss to ling bling cuz i didnt know there are 2 ramps outside the natural

the second one is this :

Entombed Valley (2).zip 85k .zip file


This a long T v P game, I'm the T

This is a game where i was purely on the def while my opponent attack me constantly. There was one point I killed his entire army with little left myself, I just couldn't make use of my remaining force well

a good game to analyze myself on

Anyone care to watch and give some suggestions?

I felt what I missed was ghosts, that unit just didn't get to me after me hating on the nerf. And I made the mistake of thinking BCs might be a good idea. what do you think?


----------



## Yukss

Why im still bronze?.. I defeat silvers and golds almost always.. F.kk blizzard. ..! I want to play ypu guys to probe myself


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Why im still bronze?.. I defeat silvers and golds almost always.. F.kk blizzard. ..! I want to play ypu guys to probe myself


i think its because you are winning too much

the system doesn't go step by step in promoting

ive seen someone going on a 20 winning streak and wondering why he still at bronze, then 1 loss promoted him to platinum

just hang in there and play your games, your MMR has to stabilize before the system promotes you

but why get upset? You're how good you are, as you can see you're already being matched against golds even though you still in bronze, league status is just e-peen


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i think its because you are winning too much
> the system doesn't go step by step in promoting
> ive seen someone going on a 20 winning streak and wondering why he still at bronze, then 1 loss promoted him to platinum
> just hang in there and play your games, your MMR has to stabilize before the system promotes you
> but why get upset? You're how good you are, as you can see you're already being matched against golds even though you still in bronze, league status is just e-peen


thx men, well i have played againt pats (3 loses , 1 win) and even 1 diamond (who played auwful.. and i won) i bougth another account and play the 5 games and i got platinum in 1v1, 3v3 and 4v4.. 3v3 i got bronze cuz my team mates were terrible bad.. lol

check this

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/158492/2/YuKsS/matches#filter=solo


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> thx men, well i have played againt pats (3 loses , 1 win) and even 1 diamond (who played auwful.. and i won) i bougth another account and play the 5 games and i got platinum in 1v1, 3v3 and 4v4.. 3v3 i got bronze cuz my team mates were terrible bad.. lol


thats cool, but what would you buy another account? lol

btw if you want to get some team games going you can find me in overclock.net channel if I'm on, what race you play?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> thats cool, but what would you buy another account? lol
> btw if you want to get some team games going you can find me in overclock.net channel if I'm on, what race you play?


i play toss mostly, here is my id: YuKsS (897) add me ass friend so we can play.. what arze you play ?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i play toss mostly, here is my id: YuKsS (897) add me ass friend so we can play.. what *arze* you play ?


what arse do I play? dayum that is a tough question









I'm terran / protoss

Terran is main, but I really don't like to deal with mutas, banelings, siege tanks and HTs, so I kinda like protoss for its better resistance against those units. That said, protoss is a bit weaker in dealing with early cheeses, at least for me

I play 4v4 the most, so what race i play usually dont matter, though i've been noticing A LOT of 4v4 players in NA are protoss, so that kind of makes me not want to play it to avoid too many protoss in the team

*EDIT:* What realm are you in? I tried adding you but couldn't find you in the game


----------



## CravinR1

Hes not in NA I also tried adding him


----------



## 13321G4

Not EU either...

----
On the topic of not getting promoted, please relax, there are a lot of people that got placed to high and thus they play against bronzish players. You are probably fighting low silver, low gold, low plat players, and I can tell you for certain that high silver is miles better that low gold.

My transition from bronze to silver was rough. In bronze I was doing fine with nice one base plays but the second I got promoted I was facing early expansions and I could not keep up and had to rethink all my match ups so that I also got a early expansion.

Be patient, the promotion will come, if you deserve it.


----------



## Alex132

http://www.sc2ranks.com/la/158492/YuKsS

Seems to be NA?


----------



## CravinR1

If he's NA he didn't type his name/character code correctly


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> If he's NA he didn't type his name/character code correctly


The Kentuckian is right.


----------



## HarrisLam

it has to be his character code, because the character name is displayed as he said on that link right there

this is funny lol

*edit :* WOW.....this is unbelievable.....I officially cleared my entire bonus pool for my 4v4, the last time I did that was my season 1, on SEA 1v1......


----------



## Yukss

wowww guys my bad.. my code is 987

YuKsS (987)

i was playing hours ago.. im gonna play at nigth a bit.. pls type your name/code to add you guys..


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Why im still bronze?..


while Bronze isn't the hardest league to get out of, it can definitely be one of the longest because there are so many players in it (quite a few smurfers too which are thankfully starting to get punished by Blizzard). I know quite a few people who were matched against plats and diamonds before being promoted out of bronze.

I say just enjoy it while you can, and you'll be out of there before you know it, I know I had a lot more fun and some people had far more fun watching me play when I was silver vs Bigfan in season 1 than now because of all of our fails and lack of fear of losing leading to crazy tactic after crazy tactic which we learned so much from (Thors vs Banelings - Hero Thor and such







good times).


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I agree with Sainesk, just enjoy it while you can. While being in the upper leagues may bring you some sense of pride and prestige, it isn't all fun and games. It's a lot lot lot lot more stressful and it can become a chore at times.

People also get really good at high levels, and stop making as many mistakes which could be easily exploited in earlier leagues.

All in all it's definitely more stressful.


----------



## CravinR1

I prefer to play on my silver/gold accounts instead of my platinum. Less stressful and you can actually play

Though playing and practicing with plats gets me better at the game.


----------



## DoomDash

I have Korea for my no stress environment now. I basically just do my placement on NA into masters, and let that account sit. Now I just play on Korea. I'll be back to NA when I think I'm where I want to be skill wise.


----------



## Anti!!

I agree. It was so stressful at times i just avoided 1v1 all together. Or i would custom 1v1 only. It just only got me kicked out, and my skill just dropped. Definitely more laid back in lower leagues.

I mean literally. I can play chillaxed in plat. But sometimes it causes me to lose. If i play like losing isn't an option, sitting up in my chair, I destroy them.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I have Korea for my no stress environment now. I basically just do my placement on NA into masters, and let that account sit. Now I just play on Korea. I'll be back to NA when I think I'm where I want to be skill wise.


How is KR server stress free lol? Sure, there's no BM, but gold players have higher APM then most EU Masters and the cheese is mind boggling.


----------



## Yukss

well,, i have heard while you ppl say about bronze league and how fun it is, i have played againts ppl who are really really good,, to much good for a bronze player, maybe is high league player who destroy his mmr just to play in bronze.


----------



## Yukss

im gonna play RIGTH NOW.. if you wanna play againts me add me ass friend

YuKsS (987)

ps.
here is another victory againts a gold player... no promotions yet

2012-03-19_00001.jpg 356k .jpg file


and few days back againts a diamond player

2012-03-09_00001.jpg 368k .jpg file


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> well,, i have heard while you ppl say about bronze league and how fun it is, i have played againts ppl who are really really good,, to much good for a bronze player, maybe is high league player who destroy his mmr just to play in bronze.


dont forget that you are one of those guys, it isnt impossible. youre not the only one who got stuck


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> How is KR server stress free lol? Sure, there's no BM, but gold players have higher APM then most EU Masters and the cheese is mind boggling.


lol the skill gap isn't quite as large as that...lets be realistic


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> lol the skill gap isn't quite as large as that...lets be realistic


It's actually close. My Masters friend on NA is Platinum on KR.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> lol the skill gap isn't quite as large as that...lets be realistic


It actually is. During my placement matches I played a 40 minutes macro game against a bronze terran who did multi-pronged attacks with drops and had a pretty decent army composition. Anyone below diamond on NA or EU would probably fall into bronze on KR. Gold players seem to mainly all-in, however with execution level of masters and APM as high as 300... Platinum players are easily above most diamond players on EU. Diamonds are around mid-high masters. I haven't played any masters yet, but I'm convinced most of KR masters would have no problem getting into GM on NA. They're seriously sick good.


----------



## CravinR1

You have to take into consideration people in NA who play on Korean accounts have alot more lag than normal


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> even that lost viking crap?
> Some of my ex-coworkers tried to bring back the moment and started playing D2 together, I got interested so I tried the game for the first time hoping that i could join them in coop games later
> my eyes can't survive through the first 30 minutes of the game


Ha I just started Daiblo 2 as well. Amazing game. The graphics are hard to swallow but the gameplay and story are just sweet. I beat Diablo last night. I have LOD so I still need to kill Maphisto.

Tried playing 2s with my good partner the other night. Our internet wasn't cooperating. We won one, and lagged out of another. So we quit.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> You have to take into consideration people in NA who play on Korean accounts have alot more lag than normal


and i wonder, exactly how much latency do you guys experience when you play a foreign realm?

I'm in asia myself, playing the game in SEA realm gives no noticeable latency, it's as close to flawless as it can get

I *used* to feel some latency in NA realm, but I think i played too much in it (cuz SEA players in lower leagues are more hardcore, need laid back games







) and then got used to it so I don't feel anything. Bottomline the difference in the 2 realms for me is at most the difference between a 20ms and 100ms ping.

is it worse to play korean server in US?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Ha I just started Daiblo 2 as well. Amazing game. The graphics are hard to swallow but the gameplay and story are just sweet. I beat Diablo last night. I have LOD so I still need to kill Maphisto.
> Tried playing 2s with my good partner the other night. Our internet wasn't cooperating. We won one, and lagged out of another. So we quit.


rough internet quality over there huh, I have a friend who also play, and every time I play with him his laptop's network card heat up and die like at least 50% of the time, sometimes it made me mad







cuz you know you aint gonna just dump your friend and play by yourself , and so it just leads to DC after DC


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> It's actually close. My Masters friend on NA is Platinum on KR.


Yeah, but EU is already somewhat better than NA. So actually High diamond in KR is High or mid masters in EU.


----------



## Sainesk

I don't seem to get any lag playing on Korea from Canada, though i'm sure if I tested the connection it'd be somewhat worse than my NA one. I was so proud when I played my first season on there and placed gold







(I mainly opened with reaper harasses then...)
I was like awesome - YellOw pretty much started out there too on SC2, shame he retired.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> and i wonder, exactly how much latency do you guys experience when you play a foreign realm?
> I'm in asia myself, playing the game in SEA realm gives no noticeable latency, it's as close to flawless as it can get
> I *used* to feel some latency in NA realm, but I think i played too much in it (cuz SEA players in lower leagues are more hardcore, need laid back games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and then got used to it so I don't feel anything. Bottomline the difference in the 2 realms for me is at most the difference between a 20ms and 100ms ping.
> is it worse to play korean server in US?
> rough internet quality over there huh, I have a friend who also play, and every time I play with him his laptop's network card heat up and die like at least 50% of the time, sometimes it made me mad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cuz you know you aint gonna just dump your friend and play by yourself , and so it just leads to DC after DC


Ya that's the reason I play SC2, play with friends. My buddy that's terrible is here with me, but he quit SC. So we've been playing Titan Quest, I've been soloing Diablo 2, and play SC2 with my buddy from back home.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> lol the skill gap isn't quite as large as that...lets be realistic


Well though I am a very rusty out of practice Master on NA, I am currently struggling to get into Diamond on the Korean servers. Generally I don't notice the lag much so I wouldn't use that as an excuse either. I am fighting Diamonds but I can only manage to break even generally. Some of the Platinum guys kick my ass randomly too.




and yeah I've played gold players who are easily Diamond level on NA.

My goal is to get Masters on Korea, but I will probably need more dedication to do it. Then I would be pretty confident I could be GM on NA ( which I was already close a few times ).

BTW how do you guys feel about the lack of Terrans these days?
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319705

I know I'm rusty but I am struggling with TvP like most of the Terrans in that thread.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Ya that's the reason I play SC2, play with friends. My buddy that's terrible is here with me, but he quit SC. So we've been playing Titan Quest, I've been soloing Diablo 2, and play SC2 with my buddy from back home.


you dont have to remind us he's terrible every time LOL......

ya well even if you dont have friends with you at the moment, you can always check in OCN channel and see anyone would play









though it's pretty sad that at least half of the frequent OCN players are like masters, not easy to find someone in our level that would play teams too









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> BTW how do you guys feel about the lack of Terrans these days?
> http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all


what the.....so is that......the whole SC2 population?......

that.....that number is *EXTREMELY* small......

that's like......that's less than 10% of my city's population.......

if it is what i think it is, I'm amazed, negatively.


----------



## DoomDash

It's been out for almost 2 years now, I'd say that's not bad, especially with 2 expansions that will bring new life into it.


----------



## Anti!!

tempted to go T


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> and i wonder, exactly how much latency do you guys experience when you play a foreign realm?


It's pretty bad from EU (UK). Around 300 to 500 ms. Makes forcefields difficult. But on the other hand it's like training in increased gravity.









From NA it's not that bad from what I've heard.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I know I'm rusty but I am struggling with TvP like most of the Terrans in that thread.


Just do what Korean T's do. I can't beat mother****ers for life.

KR:


EU:


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> BTW how do you guys feel about the lack of Terrans these days?
> http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319705
> I know I'm rusty but I am struggling with TvP like most of the Terrans in that thread.


Think it was about 2 weeks ago on SoTG, qxc was asked what changes need to be made to the game, and he said there needs to be some kind of fix for TvP late game. Its near impossible to win against a multi base toss with 30 warpgates. Once both armies meet and each player needs to rebuild, the toss can simply switch from whatever composition he had before to a new one just off wg. However, the terran cant technically scout what the zerg's larvae are, or what the toss has before he decides what to warp in. Thus, the terran 9/10 times comes out with an army composition at a significant disadvantage.

So yeah, my best match up is TvT...


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah TvP late game has almost always been a problem unless you manage to get off perfect EMPs ( see koreans ).

What are the Korean T's doing to you poroboszcz?


----------



## Alex132

Terran is damn well overpowered anyway, they deserve to be stomped on by Protoss








(I am joking)

But seriously, Terran is definitely the most annoying / noob-friendly race to play.

Nearly EVERY single Terran I play does 1 of 3 strategies;

1) M/M/M push
2) Siegetank contain with bunkers / Marines / Marauders
3) Drops

So easy to do, yet all the Terrans I play against make it out to be so hard to do









Hurrdurrr, 4-A. 1-A. Done.









Oddly enough I would say that Zerg is the easiest race to macro for me, only in 1v1 though. If I am allowed to macro when playing Zerg. I don't lose


----------



## DoomDash

Terran is maybe easier until gold, which is when they just start to disappear and people learn how to easily defend these so called newb strategies. Though Protoss has almost ALWAYS had the best win rate in the lower leagues, by a huge margin.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What are the Korean T's doing to you poroboszcz?


I was to name three things that they do different from EU terrans:

They micro much better. Like a lot of them have nearly 300 APM in fights and they seem to be able to kite zealots endlessly. I have lost some fights on KR server which I had to rewatch afterwards because based on my EU experience I was sure I'd win.
They are much more aggresive poking and dropping around, so I can't just macro up easily as I often can on EU.
They use much more builds including some ridiculous ****. A lot of 1/1/1's obviously with different timings and compositions, 2 base: standard 3 rax + medi, 4 rax ghosts, 5 rax all-in , 1 rax into double CC, banshees into bio, sky terran, you name it. Few days ago I lost to proxy double stargate banshees into hidden expo (so I actually expected 1/1/1) into bio + banshees 2 base all-in.
Lategame? It rarely ever gets to lategame.


----------



## Yukss

in my case is hard to deal againts terran in early game, i play protoss, and all they do is rine, rauder stim, a few of them is wayyy op, especially is the guy know to micro well.. all i can do is force field my ramp or attack really fast with my 3 gate push prox pylon warp in before the sim is ready..


----------



## poroboszcz

I sometimes get the impression that every Terran on KR server is just some pro trolling...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I was to name three things that they do different from EU terrans:
> 
> They micro much better. Like a lot of them have nearly 300 APM in fights and they seem to be able to kite zealots endlessly. I have lost some fights on KR server which I had to rewatch afterwards because based on my EU experience I was sure I'd win.
> They are much more aggresive poking and dropping around, so I can't just macro up easily as I often can on EU.
> They use much more builds including some ridiculous ****. A lot of 1/1/1's obviously with different timings and compositions, 2 base: standard 3 rax + medi, 4 rax ghosts, 5 rax all-in , 1 rax into double CC, banshees into bio, sky terran, you name it. Few days ago I lost to proxy double stargate banshees into hidden expo (so I actually expected 1/1/1) into bio + banshees 2 base all-in.
> Lategame? It rarely ever gets to lategame.


Oh wow. I wish I played random sometimes so I could steal builds lol. What league are you on Korea, and since when?


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> tempted to go T


bad idea
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Terran is damn well overpowered anyway, they deserve to be stomped on by Protoss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I am joking)
> But seriously, Terran is definitely the most annoying / noob-friendly race to play.
> Nearly EVERY single Terran I play does 1 of 3 strategies;
> 1) M/M/M push
> 2) Siegetank contain with bunkers / Marines / Marauders
> 3) Drops
> So easy to do, yet all the Terrans I play against make it out to be so hard to do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurrdurrr, 4-A. 1-A. Done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly enough I would say that Zerg is the easiest race to macro for me, only in 1v1 though. If I am allowed to macro when playing Zerg. I don't lose


This is so horribly wrong I want to kill myself.

Noob friendly race? I wasn't too suprised when I saw you were gold. You know what's noob-friendly? Any league under mid-high masters.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Terran is maybe easier until gold, which is when they just start to disappear and people learn how to easily defend these so called newb strategies.


This. so much this.

the basic terrans are the "straight-up strategies," advanced ones are all related to cheese and harass, if you really think about it

Gold terran players or below can execute the straight-up strategies well, while players from the other 2 races within same skill level can't deal with those strats easily, which is why terran looks easy to play.

but when you proceed to plat or above, the other 2 races have already adapted to the basic terran strategies, know what unit composition to get with scouting info, etc. Some can counter drops and hellion harasses

that put terran players at a difficult position cuz I believe that terran has a production disadvantage(and hence a straight-up battle disadvantage) after early game due to warp gates and larve inject. It has to be overcome by harassments like drops and such. And in late game it simply cannot be overcome....

and then there are the high templars, colossi, muta harass and banelings









It's not an imbalance or anything, because terran is good in other departments, it's just that these problems appear all of a sudden and they catch terran players off guard, suddenly they have to learn to execute good drops, marine split dodging banelings, good tank placements, defend against microed mutas, vikings for colossi, ghosts for HTs and infestors (i swear both are a pain)

Gold/Plat for terran is like class Starcraft 2B in college......


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> you dont have to remind us he's terrible every time LOL......
> ya well even if you dont have friends with you at the moment, you can always check in OCN channel and see anyone would play


I do it to differentiate my two friends I've been playing with lol. Won't need to do that anymore since the one quit.

I will have to check the OCN channel more often. I plan on beating Diablo 2 on Sunday, so I may get back into SC.

I finally got youtube to work, so I watched 2 of 3 of the Asus ROG tournament. I love watching replays.

@Doom and Harris, I hate your avatar images. I find myself stopping and looking at them far too often.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> This is so horribly wrong I want to kill myself.
> 
> Noob friendly race? I wasn't too suprised when I saw you were gold. You know what's noob-friendly? Any league under mid-high masters.


I'm diamond, plus I said I was joking









NA = My account that I screw around on (actually my friends one, still working my way up from his bronze level rating)
EU = Srsbns









I have just been really frustrated of late when I lose to a terran when he has 0/0 upgrades against my 3/3, 2 bases vs my 4/5 (taking a 5th, not fully sat.) all because of something like I got my hatch stuck in the hotkey with my mutas by mistake, and soon as I press the hotkey twice instead of taking me to my mutas, it takes me to my hatchery. Thus letting my mutas fly through a field of marines instead of going to safety.

I definitely find playing vs Zerg or Protoss (as either P or Z) a lot more clear. For example I need tons of banelings + good timing + tbh luck that he doesnt scan banemines or take out my creep or tier 3 units to deal with the first Terran unit in mass.

I have also been kinda annoyed with the predictability of Terran at the lower leagues. Heck I got banshee cheesed like 6-7 times in a row when playing on my friends EU account in silver.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Oh wow. I wish I played random sometimes so I could steal builds lol. What league are you on Korea, and since when?


I'm high plat, probably nowhere near promotion though. Started around the beginning of this season. I'm always in teamliquid channel when I'm online there.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I do it to differentiate my two friends I've been playing with lol. Won't need to do that anymore since the one quit.
> I will have to check the OCN channel more often. I plan on beating Diablo 2 on Sunday, so I may get back into SC.
> I finally got youtube to work, so I watched 2 of 3 of the Asus ROG tournament. I love watching replays.
> @Doom and Harris, I hate your avatar images. I find myself stopping and looking at them far too often.


ALRIGHT, well don't cry and be all "I WANT IT BACK







....." when I take it off then, ok?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I'm diamond, plus I said I was joking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NA = My account that I screw around on (actually my friends one, still working my way up from his bronze level rating)
> EU = Srsbns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely find playing vs Zerg or Protoss (as either P or Z) a lot more clear. For example I don't need tons of banelings + good timing + tbh luck that he doesnt scan banemines or take out my creep or tier 3 units to deal with the first Terran unit in mass.
> I have also been kinda annoyed with the predictability of Terran at the lower leagues. Heck I got banshee cheesed like 6-7 times in a row when playing on my friends EU account in silver.


*cough* smurf *cough*









making a tons of banelings is annoying? well, I just found that dealing with banelings without marine split and siege tanks is impossible. It is basically THE unit designed to destroy the entire terran race


----------



## Anti!!

Zvt is my favorite match up. I just totally get that one.

And @ twistacles why do you think it is a bad idea?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ALRIGHT, well don't cry and be all "I WANT IT BACK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....." when I take it off then, ok?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *cough* smurf *cough*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> making a tons of banelings is annoying? well, I just found that dealing with banelings without marine split and siege tanks is impossible. It is basically THE unit designed to destroy the entire terran race


Also ling infestor has become fun especially with earlier broods.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> *cough* smurf *cough*


Pshshshshshs















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> making a tons of banelings is annoying? well, I just found that dealing with banelings without marine split and siege tanks is impossible. It is basically THE unit designed to destroy the entire terran race


*BANELINGS <3*

Best moment for me when using banelings is when a Terran player had his army in the center of Shakuras Plateau, there are those non-see-able-through vegetation on either side. I had my roaches right against one side of the vegetation, banelings underneath his whole tank/marine/marauder army and tons of banelings behind it. Loved his instant quit


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Pshshshshshs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BANELINGS <3*
> Best moment for me when using banelings is when a Terran player had his army in the center of Shakuras Plateau, there are those non-see-able-through vegetation on either side. I had my roaches right against one side of the vegetation, banelings underneath his whole tank/marine/marauder army and tons of banelings behind it. Loved his instant quit


not cool man.....NOT COOL

It's certainly funny as hell to watch.....

*NOT COOL*


----------



## HometownHero

How about a KoTH tonight, 7pm EST? You know, settle all this Terran is a newb race talk...

Also, do we have an OCNer that has the tag "RainbowDash"? Had more than a few drinks over the weekend and now he's in my friends list. I apologize to whoever it is but I cant remember talking to him / friending him.


----------



## sepheroth003

Banelings don't bother me, my primary unit is blink stalkers


----------



## Sainesk

Diamond and below make far too many mistakes to lose mainly because of balance in my opinion. Besides, Terran currently has the lowest win rates... (and I play R mostly in case anyone's wondering if I play T)


----------



## 13321G4

Me and fluke 1v1'd, was fun as hell









Fluke VS me PvP.zip 123k .zip file


----------



## Yukss

i DEMAND play you guys.......


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i DEMAND play you guys.......


i have time to play 2 games, starting right now

will leave game if i dont see you within 10 mins


----------



## CravinR1

I can play after 6pm EST on NA server

Cravin 911

or more likely

Chadstrife 133


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i have time to play 2 games, starting right now
> will leave game if i dont see you within 10 mins


ohh crap... i can play in 30min


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> ohh crap... i can play in 30min


that would be my sleep time

haha

Oh wells, I just lost 2 games to VERY basic strats, it seems like i simply can't win anybody after not practicing for so long

First game lost to a zerg who win by only making lings-blings, he's slightly favored against me and it feels like he was just fooling around

Second game lost to a protoss who did archons, all 3 gateway units with zealot charge. I actually had a few ghosts but they didnt have much energy, I think I EMPed twice before losing the entire army. Our forces met at close to the center of the map and I wasn't paying attention.

Combined with recent 4v4 losses, I'm now sitting at 0-5

Back to the feeling of hating myself









EDIT : you said you'll be ready in 30 mins, whatever happened to that?


----------



## Yukss

how to find the oc channel ?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'm high plat, probably nowhere near promotion though. Started around the beginning of this season. I'm always in teamliquid channel when I'm online there.


Sounds like near where I'm at, but I think I may be some what in Diamond range. I will hang out in the TL channel and I'll have to add you.

and I think Twisticals was saying you won't like switching to Terran. He made the switch from Protoss to Terran awhile back and it was a pain







.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Me and fluke 1v1'd, was fun as hell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fluke VS me PvP.zip 123k .zip file


This, was an epic game


----------



## Anti!!

Yeah, but i simply love terran sometimes. lol

I would hop on tonight, but im going to church. Then Im pulling my MOBO for shipping. So anyone interested in my ram or 9600BE hit me up.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> how to find the oc channel ?


Click the chat icon and type in "overclock.net" and hit join. Ta da.


----------



## DoomDash

I used to be in that channel 24/7.


----------



## Anti!!

Yes you did!

YOu need to go back! lol Im always there as long as im online.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Click the chat icon and type in "overclock.net" and hit join. Ta da.


ppl here are very kind.. thx


----------



## ntherblast

Just had a partner who let the opponent build 3 pylons and 2 gateways in his mineral line around the 12 worker mark. Gotta love them diamond 2v2's:S


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Just had a partner who let the ally build 3 pylons and 2 gateways in his mineral line around the 12 worker mark. Gotta love them diamond 2v2's:S


???

YOU have a partner in 2v2 who let the ally......that would be you then?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ???
> YOU have a partner in 2v2 who let the ally......that would be you then?


Was a mistake I meant my random ally in 2v2 let the opponent do this to him


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Anti!!

lol


----------



## CravinR1

+rep Huskies


----------



## Alex132

huh?


----------



## Alex132

ooooh


----------



## thenailedone

Wondered who would post the latest Nerd Alert







- Pretty good, closer to Banelings









Nailed


----------



## Sainesk

that July vs Jjakji game was pretty cool, anyone else watching?


----------



## sepheroth003

My scheduled got all screwed up for a couple days there. Got to play some SC the other day, in my 2s we left Silver and went to Gold. Got into gold rank 11 for our division. We're doing pretty good.

I overclocked and undervolted my laptop. A6 3420, from 1.5ghz with 2.4ghz turbo to 2.0ghz with 2.6ghz turbo. I noticed a huge difference. SC2 just seems a lot smoother now. I feel I can get a lot more done in less time lol


----------



## DoomDash

SCII benefits a ton from OCing







.

Anyone watching MLG? This is the first live event I've watched for like 9 months or something.


----------



## Alex132

Anyone got a solid BO for 1 gate robo or 2 gate robo?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SCII benefits a ton from OCing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Anyone watching MLG? This is the first live event I've watched for like 9 months or something.


No, but i need to be. It isnt pay per view again is it?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> No, but i need to be. It isnt pay per view again is it?


depends on quality you watch at, med is free and bearable, with an ad when you start watching, low is like they're trying to intentionally make it look as bad as possible.

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live


----------



## Anti!!

Shout out to Hometown Hero who is at MLG right now!

He said he might make a OCN sign to show some love. Look for him. haha


----------



## DoomDash

Wish I was at MLG







.


----------



## HometownHero

Its been a sick tournament so far. Tons of people, tons of free dr pepper. Also, its scary how easy it is to tell the sc2, fighting, and fps fans apart.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its been a sick tournament so far. Tons of people, tons of free dr pepper. Also, its scary how easy it is to tell the sc2, fighting, and fps fans apart.


i've been trying to spot an OCN sign for the whole MLG haha







what matches did you watch, did you get good seats?

Marineking's about to play, should be interesting.

edit: wow, game 2 was a pretty awesome PvT, epic storming...


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its been a sick tournament so far. Tons of people, tons of free dr pepper. Also, its scary how easy it is to tell the sc2, fighting, and fps fans apart.


please elaborate on the last part


----------



## Anti!!

Just like foot ball season.









Wasnt DRG and Marinekingprime the finals last mlg?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> please elaborate on the last part


Apparently there are stereotypes for each fan base. I dont like to give in to stereotypes but they were pretty accurate lol.

I was like 4 rows back yesterday. More crowded today though so good seats are hard to find. MKP is making people look silly; Parting and then DRG. I picked him to win it all because he is just firing on all cylinders.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Apparently there are stereotypes for each fan base. I dont like to give in to stereotypes but they were pretty accurate lol.


I think you confused "reiterate" with "elaborate."


----------



## Anti!!

Pull for DRG? Or pull for our last foreigner. Hmm.. lol.

For the swarm? or for the Foreigner... ARGH!! I dont care as long as MKP goes down. lol I like MKP but i just am more of a Zerg, or foreigner fan. Gotta stay competitive.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule*
> 
> I think you confused "reiterate" with "elaborate."


I read his post too fast. MLG is located right near some bars so I am kind of hung over today







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Pull for DRG? Or pull for our last foreigner. Hmm.. lol.
> For the swarm? or for the Foreigner... ARGH!! I dont care as long as MKP goes down. lol I like MKP but i just am more of a Zerg, or foreigner fan. Gotta stay competitive.


Huk lost, MKP all the way


----------



## DoomDash

Go MKP







. Crush that Zerg scum.

I will tell you one thing about the fighting game community... Tekken players are the oldest generally. Almost all the Tekken players I've met are around my age ( 28~ ). I think the creator of Tekken actually commented about this when he visited MLG last time, and how he wanted Tekken to appeal to younger audience. That's why it's now on 3DS.


----------



## Nethermir

MKP wins







i am now officially changing races to terran lol.

for zerg players, are banelings and infestors the only way to hold of waves and waves of marine/marauder/medivac push?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> MKP wins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am now officially changing races to terran lol.


I hope you have 300 apm and you are Korean, other wise good luck with that.

This is how I watched it







( ignore the mess ):


----------



## Nethermir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I hope you have 300 apm and you are Korean, other wise good luck with that.
> This is how I watched it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( ignore the mess ):


very nice setup lol. 46 inch?

for switching, i kinda feel that there are just more variety in terran than with zerg that's why i want to try it. i've never played terran extensively but it looks a whole lotta fun.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I hope you have 300 apm and you are Korean, other wise good luck with that.


Yeah, seriously. Those splits in the last game were just unbelievable. There are going to be a lot of happy zerg players on the ladder who run into terrans trying to go MMM but cant split worth a dime.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I hope you have 300 apm and you are Korean, other wise good luck with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, seriously. Those splits in the last game were just unbelievable. There are going to be a lot of happy zerg players on the ladder who run into terrans trying to go MMM but cant split worth a dime.
Click to expand...

I used to be able to split, but heck it really requires a lot of precise micro.


----------



## Anti!!

How can a terran in higher leagues say something like, "I cant split bio against banes worth a crap"?

That is like me saying I cant control click banes, and magic box mutas at the same time. lol

But I am no longer in high leagues. Im just speaking when i used to be in higher leagues.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> How can a terran in higher leagues say something like, "I cant split bio against banes worth a crap"?
> 
> That is like me saying I cant control click banes, and magic box mutas at the same time. lol
> 
> But I am no longer in high leagues. Im just speaking when i used to be in higher leagues.


Magic box annoys me.

>going towards thors with magic box formation
>mutas suddenly see random marine, and attack it.
>clumped together suddenly
>thors attack mutas
>SPLAT

:I


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> How can a terran in higher leagues say something like, "I cant split bio against banes worth a crap"?
> That is like me saying I cant control click banes, and magic box mutas at the same time. lol
> But I am no longer in high leagues. Im just speaking when i used to be in higher leagues.


Splitting marines is hella harder than baneling muta micro, I will tell you that much. Magic box is not hard at all either.

I am a master league Terran but that last game of MKP could only be won with that unit composition by maybe 10 koreans I could think of, and almost no one else. That unit comp would get owned by Zerg if anyone but the absolute best werent controlling it. I can only dream of micro so godly at this point. I seriously looked at his unit comp and thought he was going to lose the entire time because it's just not supposed to beat that Zerg comp.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Splitting marines is hella harder than baneling muta micro, I will tell you that much. Magic box is not hard at all either.
> I am a master league Terran but that last game of MKP could only be won with that unit composition by maybe 10 koreans I could think of, and almost no one else. That unit comp would get owned by Zerg if anyone but the absolute best werent controlling it. I can only dream of micro so godly at this point. I seriously looked at his unit comp and thought he was going to lose the entire time because it's just not supposed to beat that Zerg comp.


Blah blah blah doom dash. Dont under estimate my knowledge please. lol I know how to marine split. Dont take me tooooo literal, but you better know how to do it if your gonna be anything higher that top 8 diamond is my point.

I totally agree that MKP's control is leet leet. And i dont think that everyone top 8 eight diamond above has that kind of micro. I wasnt even referring to that stature of micro. I just meant your basic marine splitting. haha.

I also believe if your gonna be a good terran player split micro should be a high focus after your mechanics are down.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Splitting marines is hella harder than baneling muta micro, I will tell you that much. Magic box is not hard at all either.
> I am a master league Terran but that last game of MKP could only be won with that unit composition by maybe 10 koreans I could think of, and almost no one else. That unit comp would get owned by Zerg if anyone but the absolute best werent controlling it. I can only dream of micro so godly at this point. I seriously looked at his unit comp and thought he was going to lose the entire time because it's just not supposed to beat that Zerg comp.


to be perfectly honest, i think these koreans are getting in our way to have terran balance







. theres literally nobody that can achieve some micro like this, and here they are doing all these and blizzard is thinking oh since they can do it and are still winning, that means someone else can do it too so the game is balanced

dayum









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I hope you have 300 apm and you are Korean, other wise good luck with that.
> This is how I watched it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( ignore the mess ):


that pic makes the TV looks like a 36" with a 46" sticker









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> MKP wins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am now officially changing races to terran lol.
> for zerg players, are banelings and infestors the only way to hold of waves and waves of marine/marauder/medivac push?


prepare to get crushed









dont even mention infestors, ling banes alone are hard enough to hold off as MM, if you have the 3rd M then you might as well pick them up lolz


----------



## Anti!!

I would definitely try to avoid a balance discussion again. lol The skill of everyone vary way to much to even comment as you said.


----------



## DoomDash

I assure you its 46", but I have it all the way across my living room so my girlfriend could play dance games on my PS3 with playstation move. I got that tv for $270 brand new from target on black friday with an employee discount, could not be happier







( 1080p ). Next black friday I will buy another and put this one in my bedroom. SCII anywhere in the house lol!

and my marine splitting isn't very good, but I plan out my attacks and split preemptively whenever I can to make up for it.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I assure you its 46", but I have it all the way across my living room so my girlfriend could play dance games on my PS3 with playstation move. I got that tv for $270 brand new from target on black friday with an employee discount, could not be happier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( 1080p ). Next black friday I will buy another and put this one in my bedroom. SCII anywhere in the house lol!
> and my marine splitting isn't very good, but I plan out my attacks and split preemptively whenever I can to make up for it.


Yeah, and take my "blah blah blahs" lightly. Im having fun is all.







Still love ya dash.

I streamed mlg orlando at my house on my lg 42 inch (1080p). It was kinda like a non alcoholic bar craft lol. some family and friends were there, and when the stream went off we played sc2 and madden 2010 or 11 till 8 a.m. in the morning.

Im married we can do things like this. hahaha


----------



## DoomDash

I desperately wish I had friends as passionate about Starcraft II as me IRL. All of mine play lame games like League of Legends or boring indie games. This saddens me.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I desperately wish I had friends as passionate about Starcraft II as me IRL. All of mine play lame games like League of Legends or boring indie games. This saddens me.


*tear* Im sorry.. lol

The only reason i have friends that do is because i brought them into it. lol Im like a guy selling drugs to underage minors, but its Blizzard. haha


----------



## sepheroth003

I hopped on gomtv the other day, I wanted to order season 2 of GSL but it wouldn't let me here. WIll have to wait until I get home.

So I've been just watching Husky and HD on youtube. Watched abotu 40 games this weekend. It's so much fun watching the pros.

I saw Huk lost MLG, what did he lose to? Seems to lose to Zerg a lot. Both Idra and Stephanno beat the crap out of him. He's still a great toss player, I learn a lot from watching him.


----------



## HometownHero

When Blizzard looks at top Terran players like MKP and MVP, we all get screwed. Don't worry though, they are going to dumb down the game for Terrans with the Shredder.....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I hopped on gomtv the other day, I wanted to order season 2 of GSL but it wouldn't let me here. WIll have to wait until I get home.
> So I've been just watching Husky and HD on youtube. Watched abotu 40 games this weekend. It's so much fun watching the pros.
> I saw Huk lost MLG, what did he lose to? Seems to lose to Zerg a lot. Both Idra and Stephanno beat the crap out of him. He's still a great toss player, I learn a lot from watching him.


Notable things he lost to was a slightly modified 1-1-1 build against Heart, and a DT strategy from Parting. Didn't get a chance to watch some of his lower bracket stuff.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I desperately wish I had friends as passionate about Starcraft II as me IRL. All of mine play lame games like League of Legends or boring indie games. This saddens me.


I only have 1 friend of mine who is as into it as me, but there is no way in hell we could practice. He is in a SC2 clan/team whereas I am barely in diamond xD


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I only have 1 friend of mine who is as into it as me, but there is no way in hell we could practice. He is in a SC2 clan/team whereas I am barely in diamond xD


Well thats wrong. Lol

Join ours. We are a laid back clan who just has fun. We are NA of course but some are serious about being masters too. I was serious and still would like to be but i just dont have the time to be on like i want.

Www.clandarkside.com

We are a community basically. So we all play other games too. Anyone is welcome to check it out.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> When Blizzard looks at top Terran players like MKP and MVP, we all get screwed. Don't worry though, they are going to dumb down the game for Terrans with the Shredder.....


I recall blizzard said somewhere that they look at top-level play for balance fixes, because that's where the skill level tops out and people make the fewest mistakes that might affect one's perception on balance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well thats wrong. Lol
> Join ours. We are a laid back clan who just has fun. We are NA of course but some are serious about being masters too. I was serious and still would like to be but i just dont have the time to be on like i want.
> Www.clandarkside.com
> We are a community basically. So we all play other games too. Anyone is welcome to check it out.


if it's really laid back then i gotta check it out

cuz i'm not laid back i'm SUPER laid back lol...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I only have 1 friend of mine who is as into it as me, but there is no way in hell we could practice. He is in a SC2 clan/team whereas I am barely in diamond xD
> 
> 
> 
> Well thats wrong. Lol
> 
> Join ours. We are a laid back clan who just has fun. We are NA of course but some are serious about being masters too. I was serious and still would like to be but i just dont have the time to be on like i want.
> 
> Www.clandarkside.com
> 
> We are a community basically. So we all play other games too. Anyone is welcome to check it out.
Click to expand...

Dawww can't I join if I'm in EU?

Sidenote: After taking a long (3-4 months really) break from SC2 I just beat a master league player in PvT









My fingers were shaking xD


----------



## Anti!!

lol

nicely done.

Yea we are laid back. And most are over 21. So, drama is kept to a minimum.

If you are EU you are more than welcome to join. Its just we dont have any EU SC2 players in the clan. But we have had foreigners playing css and other games. So feel free. Besides you could get a NA account and pwn us. lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> lol
> 
> nicely done.
> 
> Yea we are laid back. And most are over 21. So, drama is kept to a minimum.
> 
> If you are EU you are more than welcome to join. Its just we dont have any EU SC2 players in the clan. But we have had foreigners playing css and other games. So feel free. Besides you could get a NA account and pwn us. lol


I have an NA account, well, it's my friends but I borrow it








The lag from South Africa to NA is bad sometimes, 700-2000ms, so I prefer EU. But if there is none of you guys in EU I will happily join you in the NA section


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I recall blizzard said somewhere that they look at top-level play for balance fixes, because that's where the skill level tops out and people make the fewest mistakes that might affect one's perception on balance


Yeah I remember Blizzard saying that as well. The problem with that is that there is such a huge skill differential between the majority of players (bronze to diamond) and progamers. Yeah, people like MKP and MVP make Terran look op but I guarantee you that most people who play the game dont have anywhere near that kind of control. So Blizzard making Terran balanced at a pro level doesnt translate well to the average player. Terran might have potential to beat other races at a top level, but I think players at lower levels wont benefit from those balance changes as much as they should.

Granted I'm not complaining. I like a good challenge


----------



## avaya

I'm top 25 masters in NA and generally agree with you hometownhero. The utility of a zealot being using by a GSL code S player is probably 25% more than a zealot being used by a diamond player, but a code S player will get 50% or 75% more utility out of a marine. That said, Blizzard has said they have a goal of making the game balanced for lower leveled players as well.

As an aside, I've coached quite a few players (I like responding to people looking for a game or help in the big public channels like reddit/teamliquid), and I think the best way for below-diamond players to improve is:
1. Play a ladder match and try to focus on macro with as much of your concentration as possible. Keeping money spent is most important, but also means probe/scv/injects/expansion timing.
2. Regardless of win or loss watch the replay at 4x speed with the income tab open and pause/rewind any time your income/gas gets high or anytime you fall behind your opponent in drone/scv/probe count. Don't worry or even think twice about how you accidentally right clicked an army to it's death or had poor micro against a drop- that stuff doesn't matter if your goal is to get better at starcraft 2.
3. Conclude 1 or 2 very specific things you did wrong. "I got supply blocked at 28/28 and my scv production was delayed 25 seconds" and "my money got up to 900 before I started my 400 cost command center". Do not conclude "I need better probe production", make the conclusion(s) specific to each game.

Steps 2 and 3 are not fun, but doing this for 20 hours will get almost anyone above age 18 to diamond.

Also, macro is still 90% of the focus in my games. Splitting marines, studder stepping stalkers, and getting the correct roach concave is still secondary to keeping money spent. I'm hoping to hit top8 masters soon (i'm random, but probably best with protoss at the moment).

edit- I think watching GSL/pro casts actually harms some players since 100% of the commentary is micro, not macro. By doing the 3 steps outlined above it will also make you look at macro more (and be more amazed) when watching pro matches.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I have an NA account, well, it's my friends but I borrow it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lag from South Africa to NA is bad sometimes, 700-2000ms, so I prefer EU. But if there is none of you guys in EU I will happily join you in the NA section


feel free to check us out.







Be more than happy to game with ya.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I'm top 25 masters in NA and generally agree with you hometownhero. The utility of a zealot being using by a GSL code S player is probably 25% more than a zealot being used by a diamond player, but a code S player will get 50% or 75% more utility out of a marine. That said, Blizzard has said they have a goal of making the game balanced for lower leveled players as well.
> As an aside, I've coached quite a few players (I like responding to people looking for a game or help in the big public channels like reddit/teamliquid), and I think the best way for below-diamond players to improve is:
> 1. Play a ladder match and try to focus on macro with as much of your concentration as possible. Keeping money spent is most important, but also means probe/scv/injects/expansion timing.
> 2. Regardless of win or loss watch the replay at 4x speed with the income tab open and pause/rewind any time your income/gas gets high or anytime you fall behind your opponent in drone/scv/probe count. Don't worry or even think twice about how you accidentally right clicked an army to it's death or had poor micro against a drop- that stuff doesn't matter if your goal is to get better at starcraft 2.
> 3. Conclude 1 or 2 very specific things you did wrong. "I got supply blocked at 28/28 and my scv production was delayed 25 seconds" and "my money got up to 900 before I started my 400 cost command center". Do not conclude "I need better probe production", make the conclusion(s) specific to each game.
> Steps 2 and 3 are not fun, but doing this for 20 hours will get almost anyone above age 18 to diamond.
> Also, macro is still 90% of the focus in my games. Splitting marines, studder stepping stalkers, and getting the correct roach concave is still secondary to keeping money spent. I'm hoping to hit top8 masters soon (i'm random, but probably best with protoss at the moment).
> edit- I think watching GSL/pro casts actually harms some players since 100% of the commentary is micro, not macro. By doing the 3 steps outlined above it will also make you look at macro more (and be more amazed) when watching pro matches.


Well thanks for agreeing







. That method on improving is basically what day9 recommended during one of his dailies. It's a great method, granted you have the time to play a few games every once in awhile. Unfortunately, it feels like more people opt to just cheese every game instead of playing a macro game and actually trying to improve their skills.


----------



## Anti!!

[quote name="HometownHero" url="/t/782557/official-starcraft-2-strategy-discussion-thread/18620#post_16813911"] Well thanks for agreeing :thumb:. That method on improving is basically what day9 recommended during one of his dailies. It's a great method, granted you have the time to play a few games every once in awhile. Unfortunately, it feels like more people opt to just cheese every game instead of playing a macro game and actually trying to improve their skills.[/quote] I agree totally. I give a hill a beans for cheesing. What little bit i do get to play im not gonna waste it anywhere but in macro games. And it just seems i have to fight to even make people to late game...


----------



## HometownHero

Yeah, between immortal busts, blink stalker all-ins, and roach bling all in, its tough to get a good macro game on the ladder. And from what I understand, it gets worse in diamond.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, between immortal busts, blink stalker all-ins, and roach bling all in, its tough to get a good macro game on the ladder. And from what I understand, it gets worse in diamond.


Meh I have played all the leagues from Masters down.

One thing to note:

1v1:
Bronze - Lolwat its so fun, cheeses are really badly done (some guy once tried to marine / bunker / scv rush but forgot to bring a marine)
Silver - Little bit better cheese, but mainly mid-game ends.
Gold - Decent rushes, much more mid-game stuff, sometimes macro.
Platinum - Good rushes, same mid amount as gold but more macro now.
Diamond - Better rushes, nice mid game but still lacking at macro until you hit like top 50 or so.
Masters (from my extremely short time in it) - Nice openers, strong mid and good macro/micro to back it up.

Team games, bronze - silver = cheese. Master = Cheese that is done really well.
Everything in between is mass X unit or try to macro.

This is all based off of my terrible opinion and generalizing people from hundreds of games, so It won't really be that true









I really tend to be more of a macro player, but my recent games against Rlnd here makes me want to learn some sick timings to hit.


----------



## CravinR1

OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades

Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up.

VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, between immortal busts, blink stalker all-ins, and roach bling all in, its tough to get a good macro game on the ladder. And from what I understand, it gets worse in diamond.


Low diamond is where i got cheesed alot. But in the top twelve i actually had fun people tried to play legit with just early pressure to try and slow you down so their macro got ahead. Not including the occasional loser trying to cheese to masters. But back in those days i had learned how to deal with it and had seen it all already cause i played so often.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades
> Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up.
> VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw


How about 1 gate FE into fast Carriers and HTs.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades
> 
> Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up.
> 
> VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw


Dont let him get BCs lol.

4 gate? 1 gate expo into 3 gate + robo + timing attack? 2-3 immos.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades
> Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up.
> VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw


to be honest that's the first time in roughly 9 months I've heard BC's achieving something, no offense

agree on HT's

maybe you would want to watch the replay I post about 2 weeks ago on a PvT, literally same situation, its just that I'm the terran, and I lost.

Might be helpful to you


----------



## Anti!!

Ive seen a few master peeps going straight BC on two base lol. Easily scout-able but terrible if you didn't. Not mass, but 3 or four to supplement tanks and rines. haha.


----------



## CravinR1

I've tried 1 gate FE into 4 gate robo, his CLOAKED banshees rape my stalkers (after he scans and snipes my 2 obs with his mass rines)

Tried Prism with zealot/sentry/stalkers but his mass rines just own that early game

What do u think about 4 gate robo with obs into 2 starport carriers on 2 bases ?

Or are voids not better vs BCs?


----------



## 13321G4

Void Rays do kill bc's but that would be extremely all in: you can barely support double stargate on 2 base. Rather a single stargate that you chronoboost. Blink Stalker in mass number seems to me the better option, with a robo solely for obs, but keep them above your army not this, a lot harder to snipe. Add a double forge to keep up with the upgrades, seems valid.


----------



## sepheroth003

Voids do counter BCs, you just have to watch the micro and make sure you build up your charge.

I've never really had trouble against banshees. I think stalkers do a pretty good job, especially with blink I chase them down.

I'm back into loving SC2. Been watching lots of games, and it actually let me connect and play last night. Went 5-2 in 2s last night


----------



## CravinR1

I kept the mofu to 2 bases but 9 BCs with upgrades own stalkers and HT (he gets yamato to keep energy down)

I just want to own him

I think I'm going to 1 gate, 1 robo into 2-3 starport carriers.


----------



## poroboszcz

I was joking with the carriers. Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.

If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.


----------



## Dr216

If you know the build he uses and he knows the builds you usually use, cheese him in a way that makes it look like your doing your bog standard build. Or try and make him feel uncomfortable by making it look like your doing something else completely.

love doing that against people I play with allot.

I would also say if the guy is teching that much the best response is to punish him early he simply does not have enough resources to have allot of stuff and allot of tech, take advantage and cripple him early.

I would also suggest even going for a double gas steal its not cheap but it will sure mess with his timings if he is going that tech heavy.


----------



## sepheroth003

In 2s we are trying to attack at 8mins. I 4 gate and knock on the front door while my teammate (terran) drops on their mains. It has worked very well so far. After/during the initial attack we expo.

The build I was going for in 1s was 2 gate fast ob, FE. Anyone have a good 4 gate build order, or a llink to one?


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I was joking with the carriers. Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.
> If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.


Meh. I've held 4 gate warp prism while going 1 rax fe into tech pretty often. Just pull scvs and micro a bit and wait for a banshee or tank to get out, or a bunker to finish. The lower amount of units from going robo makes it easier to deal with and then you just roll over him with 2 base 7rax 2 fact 2 port

edit: the optimal 4gate should hit at 5:33 ingame time. gate, gas, pylon, cyber. 2 chrono on probe rest on cyber.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Meh. I've held 4 gate warp prism while going 1 rax fe into tech pretty often. Just pull scvs and micro a bit and wait for a banshee or tank to get out, or a bunker to finish. The lower amount of units from going robo makes it easier to deal with and then you just roll over him with 2 base 7rax 2 fact 2 port
> edit: the optimal 4gate should hit at 5:33 ingame time. gate, gas, pylon, cyber. 2 chrono on probe rest on cyber.


Doesn't matter if you can hold a 4 gate. It's there to harrass while my teammate takes out production.

5:33 is way early. Swear I got warp tech at 5:45... Reguardless, if you're suppose to 4 gate that early it's not doable with a 2 medivac drop then. Timings are off.


----------



## avaya

Rank 12 masters player here
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, between immortal busts, blink stalker all-ins, and roach bling all in, its tough to get a good macro game on the ladder. And from what I understand, it gets worse in diamond.


I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread.

Macro = keeping money spent while having strong worker production. Having good macro doesn't mean you can't do a strong timing push at 8 minutes before expanding. If you die to a 4gate because you fast expanded, you did not have good macro.
Cheese = a poor word that means different things to different players. The best definition is a build that would be easy to stop if there were no fog of war. This means a 4gate is not a cheese in pvp.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades. Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up. VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw


At plat pvt level I suggest going 2gate robo into expand most games. Get a stalker out quickly and when you see he is expanding or has made a bunker, switch production into sentries/observers (which should help you build minerals) and expand asap. BC's are very rare, but busting is not the answer. Best option would just be to get fast ht's, lots of gates and observers, and take a fast 3rd. 3 bases making ht/zealot needs about 15 gates. You will want to feedback banshee/bc's and storm marines.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> I've tried 1 gate FE into 4 gate robo, his CLOAKED banshees rape my stalkers (after he scans and snipes my 2 obs with his mass rines)
> 
> Tried Prism with zealot/sentry/stalkers but his mass rines just own that early game What do u think about 4 gate robo with obs into 2 starport carriers on 2 bases ?Or are voids not better vs BCs?"


If he is going banshee, your robo shouldn't make a single immortal but should instead be nonstop observers up to 4. If he is doing a 1 base all-in (as it sounds like) you want to be getting to ht's with speed zealots. You can fast expand with a robo, get a citadel, and have templars done right as his attack hits around 9m. You won't have storm researched (unless he's really bad), but can feedback the banshees and use guardian shield over your zealots/stalkers to own his marines.

Voids/carriers will lose to vikings. If he is banshee/bc he will also have marines which own void/carrier.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> I kept the mofu to 2 bases but 9 BCs with upgrades own stalkers and HT (he gets yamato to keep energy down)
> 
> I just want to own him. I think I'm going to 1 gate, 1 robo into 2-3 starport carriers.


You should have 3 to 4 bases with about 20 gates by the time he has 9 BC's. An HT/zealot army will win this unless you are floating 1000+ minerals leading up to the battle and have poor macro. Mass voids or carriers will beat only-bc's, but building only-bc's is weird!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.
> 
> If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.


I agree, although 4gate warp prism against a FE terran requires relatively precise FF's which is difficult for below masters players.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> In 2s we are trying to attack at 8mins. I 4 gate and knock on the front door while my teammate (terran) drops on their mains. It has worked very well so far. After/during the initial attack we expo.
> The build I was going for in 1s was 2 gate fast ob, FE. Anyone have a good 4 gate build order, or a llink to one?


I had a 2's team that was something like 80-10 last season (he was rank 1 masters and used to be in GM). We both played random and my favorite build was with protoss terran and a shared entrance. The terran goes 3rax marines and bunker defends the entrance while protoss goes 1 base double colossus. Terran does a big gas feed as the the robo's finish so protoss will have 600 gas for 2x colossus and thermal lance. Before 9 minutes the push is ~30 marines with combat shield and 4x ranged colossus. That build has brought grown men to tears.


----------



## Twistacles

Sounds scary. Works especially since people tend to FE late in 2v2. If they expo early the econ advantage can be overcome.

Personally, as TZ, I like just doing whatever and feeding my teammate gas while he goes infinity muta. Force them to engage into our defensive position while he ravages their base with mutarisku. We've been quite a few GMs, even if we're both only mid-masters ourselves


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Rank 12 masters player here
> I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread.
> Macro = keeping money spent while having strong worker production. Having good macro doesn't mean you can't do a strong timing push at 8 minutes before expanding. If you die to a 4gate because you fast expanded, you did not have good macro.
> Cheese = a poor word that means different things to different players. The best definition is a build that would be easy to stop if there were no fog of war. This means a 4gate is not a cheese in pvp.


There is a difference between "good macro" and a "macro game" That isn't a misunderstanding you are talking about 2 completely different things.

if you FE or hide an expo and cant defend it then that is what i like to call an economic cheese you got greedy he saw it and punished you for it







cheese is as you say something that if they scout it will fail, thus it means very different things on different maps and races but just about anything involving hidden bases and proxies can safely be classed under cheese. Not all cheese is bad though some of the most clever builds I've seen/used are cheese.


----------



## Anti!!

If any of you ever make me read that much for one post again the world will be at its knees.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Meh. I've held 4 gate warp prism while going 1 rax fe into tech pretty often. Just pull scvs and micro a bit and wait for a banshee or tank to get out, or a bunker to finish.


I find it difficult to believe. It's hard enough to hold when teching too fast on one base. Are you talking about 1 base 4 gate warp prism all-in or 1 gate FE into 4 gate warp prism?


----------



## Sainesk

so what was everybody's favorite matches of the MLG?

I think my fave PvT was game 2 of Marineking vs PartinG - supplys so even throughout, awesome HT use/flanking, Marineking made the Colossus look like jokes etc.

but I also really enjoyed the TvZ, Jjakji vs July, haven't seen such aggressive zerg play in a while, I swear every time he saw a T unit, July was like chaaaaaaaaaarge!


----------



## HometownHero

Last game of the Finals had some insane micro by MKP. Also, the last game of the Heart v. DRG series was nuts too. DRG wins with no income? Ridiculous.


----------



## thenailedone

Just about all the games of both DRG and MKP were superb. I am very happy that MKP finally shook of his 2nd place stigma









Nailed


----------



## Anti!!

Awwww I didnt get to see Jjakji vs July.


----------



## DoomDash

Koreans have some sort of magic when it comes to coming back from a disadvantage, especially the Zerg players. I seriously forced a cancel on a Zergs nat 3 times while getting my nat up and he still comes back so fast its like it never happened. I really don't understand how koreans are so good.

The funny part is the people I beat more often than Koreans are foreigners playing on Korea. I beat a Russian living in the US, a Swedish player, and another American player. They do not play anywhere near as good as the Koreans, though the Taiwanese seem to play similar.

and man TvP is crazy, I am getting owned so bad in TvP it's not even funny. Even with huge economy leads and sniping nexuses the Protoss unit comp is rediculous, especially this mass zealot crap. I really hate Zealots, I honestly would predict a nerf in the future, specifically for terran.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I had a 2's team that was something like 80-10 last season (he was rank 1 masters and used to be in GM). We both played random and my favorite build was with protoss terran and a shared entrance. The terran goes 3rax marines and bunker defends the entrance while protoss goes 1 base double colossus. Terran does a big gas feed as the the robo's finish so protoss will have 600 gas for 2x colossus and thermal lance. Before 9 minutes the push is ~30 marines with combat shield and 4x ranged colossus. That build has brought grown men to tears.


Ha, thats the same build Cravin recommended. Honestly tried it with a bad 2s partner, didn't think about trying it with my good 2s partner. I bet it will work a lot better now.

I've been watching Day9 noobie tuesdays. He's got some really good stuff in there. I just watched the one about perfecting a build. I think it will help me a lot to pick a build and practice against and easy computer just to get it down.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Koreans have some sort of magic when it comes to coming back from a disadvantage, especially the Zerg players. I seriously forced a cancel on a Zergs nat 3 times while getting my nat up and he still comes back so fast its like it never happened. I really don't understand how koreans are so good.
> The funny part is the people I beat more often than Koreans are foreigners playing on Korea. I beat a Russian living in the US, a Swedish player, and another American player. They do not play anywhere near as good as the Koreans, though the Taiwanese seem to play similar.
> and man TvP is crazy, I am getting owned so bad in TvP it's not even funny. Even with huge economy leads and sniping nexuses the Protoss unit comp is rediculous, especially this mass zealot crap. I really hate Zealots, I honestly would predict a nerf in the future, specifically for terran.


Amazing. I want to rub elbows with these people.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> and man TvP is crazy, I am getting owned so bad in TvP it's not even funny. Even with huge economy leads and sniping nexuses the Protoss unit comp is rediculous, especially this mass zealot crap. I really hate Zealots, I honestly would predict a nerf in the future, specifically for terran.


Yup, been saying this forever. That switch the Toss can make from a normal deathball to mass zealot stalker archon is just ridiculously overpowered. Once they start shoving zealots down your throat I end up kiting all the way back to my base.


----------



## Twistacles

TvP is a ******ed matchup. I just assume im gonna lose and do random ****, now. Too many won games lost to HT/Collo+zealot remax


----------



## Anti!!

I think Zerg needs to be nerfed to the ground. ZVZ is just so hard. That Ling to bane tech switch just owns me. I end up kiting those banes all the way back to my base with my queens off creep. THENNNN the drones come. Im so sick of losing to these bronze NA players. They are like the best in the world....


----------



## poroboszcz

True. Blizzard is doing horrible job at balancing this game and protoss is the worst. In PvP they can go double robo colossus and my zealots just melt before they can hit anything. If I go robo though, they can open with stargate and I autolose. And the forcefields. I can't ever be aggresive early because they can forcefield the ramp indefinitely. Also it's so much easier to play protoss. If I go blink stalkers I have to micro my ass off, while they can just a-move their zealot immortal army for ez gg. So imba! I just gg without even trying whenever I see protoss on ladder.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> True. Blizzard is doing horrible job at balancing this game and protoss is the worst. In PvP they can go double robo colossus and my zealots just melt before they can hit anything. If I go robo though, they can open with stargate and I autolose. And the forcefields. I can't ever be aggresive early because they can forcefield the ramp indefinitely. Also it's so much easier to play protoss. If I go blink stalkers I have to micro my ass off, while they can just a-move their zealot immortal army for ez gg. So imba! I just gg without even trying whenever I see protoss on ladder.


my trolmeter overheated when I was reading that....


----------



## Anti!!

but not mine eh?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> but not mine eh?


what you jelly?

Heat takes time to build up you know

It's like that jar nobody can open. Pass it around, everybody gets to try once, 10 minutes later, after wasted energy from 28 men it gets opened by a skinny girl.


----------



## Anti!!

Heck yea im jelly! I started it. Lol

Jk jk


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> True. Blizzard is doing horrible job at balancing this game and protoss is the worst. In PvP they can go double robo colossus and my zealots just melt before they can hit anything. If I go robo though, they can open with stargate and I autolose. And the forcefields. I can't ever be aggresive early because they can forcefield the ramp indefinitely. Also it's so much easier to play protoss. If I go blink stalkers I have to micro my ass off, while they can just a-move their zealot immortal army for ez gg. So imba! I just gg without even trying whenever I see protoss on ladder.


yea, I don't get why when people scout my build and build it's counter and I don't react I lose, so imba...








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> but not mine eh?


actually, maybe poro was making fun of your post with his... so don't feel left out


----------



## poroboszcz

I was inspired by Anit's post! It greatly illustrates the problem how one can be a better player in every way, make no mistakes and still lose the game he really should have won because of Blizzard's incompetence in balancing the races.


----------



## DoomDash

Korea today:

Won 2 TvT's
Won 4 TvZ's
Won 1 TvP

Lost 1 TvT
Lost 2 TvZ's
Lost 3 TvP's

Beat 2-3 Diamonds and I don't think I lost to any.


----------



## HometownHero

High five for staying over .500 in Korea.

Whats your TvZ look like?


----------



## Alex132

Doom, you got an EU account?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Korea today:
> Won 2 TvT's
> Won 4 TvZ's
> Won 1 TvP
> Lost 1 TvT
> Lost 2 TvZ's
> Lost 3 TvP's
> Beat 2-3 Diamonds and I don't think I lost to any.


Yep, your tvp def needs work.









@ poro lol good to inspire. Haha


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Doom, you got an EU account?


Nah. If I'm gonna lag a little I'd rather lag on Korea.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> High five for staying over .500 in Korea.
> Whats your TvZ look like?


Just marine tank medivac double ebay stuff. Nothing fancy, but I do 2 rax every game basically, and try to be aggressive.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yep, tvp def needs work.


Fixed.


----------



## Twistacles

I stopped caring about TvP cause I just assume im gonna lose.


----------



## Mwarren

TvP becomes easy once you stop making vikings....period and learn how to deny scouting and apply one base pressure (they wont know whats coming if you play your cards right). I don't make vikings anymore and I've found out that MMM > any collosus army without HT's as long as your micro and spread is decent and MMM+Ghosts destroys any ground army that toss can throw at you including collosus/archon/chargelot/HT deathballs.

It really comes down to you being able to get off emps on their army, templars, and spreading/kiting your units back. Even if you get stormed 1-2 times you can still come out ahead in big battles as long as you micro/spread your units back. You'll also have a much stronger ground army and will be better prepared for chargelot/archon remaxes due to having no vikings.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> TvP becomes easy once you stop making vikings....period and learn how to deny scouting and apply one base pressure (they wont know whats coming if you play your cards right). I don't make vikings anymore and I've found out that MMM > any collosus army without HT's as long as your micro and spread is decent and MMM+Ghosts destroys any ground army that toss can throw at you including collosus/archon/chargelot/HT deathballs.
> It really comes down to you being able to get off emps on their army, templars, and spreading/kiting your units back. Even if you get stormed 1-2 times you can still come out ahead in big battles as long as you micro/spread your units back. You'll also have a much stronger ground army and will be better prepared for chargelot/archon remaxes due to having no vikings.


is your name MKP? lol i believe he displayed that very well and people dont seem to be even trying to practice it, but complain about tvp.


----------



## DoomDash

TvP is about winning before late game atm. This is what MKP is good at.


----------



## Mwarren

I don't know Doom. I've been having a lot of luck recently just going mass bio + ghosts with 6+ medivacs. Late game I just start to mass rax and add on reactors to atleast half of them. I just won a late game TvP on ladder and I had 16 raxes (a few with reactors) and I was able to just pretty much 1a over his army (he had chargelot/archon/ht with 3/3). Not enough terrans make enough marines or have enough barracks late game and vikings are a total waste because they're garbage when landed.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I don't know Doom. I've been having a lot of luck recently just going mass bio + ghosts with 6+ medivacs. Late game I just start to mass rax and add on reactors to atleast half of them. I just won a late game TvP on ladder and I had 16 raxes (a few with reactors) and I was able to just pretty much 1a over his army (he had chargelot/archon/ht with 3/3). Not enough terrans make enough marines or have enough barracks late game and vikings are a total waste because they're garbage when landed.


Did he get off any storms? Do you mass snipe, mass emp, or a bit of both?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I don't know Doom. I've been having a lot of luck recently just going mass bio + ghosts with 6+ medivacs. Late game I just start to mass rax and add on reactors to atleast half of them. I just won a late game TvP on ladder and I had 16 raxes (a few with reactors) and I was able to just pretty much 1a over his army (he had chargelot/archon/ht with 3/3). Not enough terrans make enough marines or have enough barracks late game and vikings are a total waste because they're garbage when landed.


How did you end up in Diamond? I will try this no viking crap but I don't see it going well. I haven't played any NA Protosses, only Koreans, maybe they play different.


----------



## Twistacles

I dont mean to be rude warren, but what is your rating?

Pure BIO + EMP will beat pure archon/gateway/ht, sure. But any number of collosus will roflstomp your army without vikings or some crazy 4 sided flank


----------



## Sainesk

I'm no expert, but if you already have a starport with reactor for your medivacs anyway, would it never be worth it to throw in like 2 vikings (or more) anyway vs a colo ball? I saw Marineking doing it and he basically split them out far on either side of his army making it an inconvenience to pick them off, but still doing minor damage and being annoying with them...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> I dont mean to be rude warren, but what is your rating?
> Pure BIO + EMP will beat pure archon/gateway/ht, sure. But any number of collosus will roflstomp your army without vikings or some crazy 4 sided flank


I'm in diamond but only because I took a long break and stopped playing seriously. Right now im beating mid masters on ladder. Pure Bio + Emp beats any protoss deathball unit composition. Try it out in a unit tester. You can pretty much 1 a and just emp the toss's army and even if they have 5 collosus, you'll still come out ahead.

The great thing is that you also dont have to guess if they're going collosus, HT, Immortal, or any 2 base all ins because you'll always be ready with bio + medivacs. All that you have to do is split your army up and kite, Collosus does AOE damage so splitting helps significantly just like how splitting helps vs siege tanks. If you can spread your bio army out wide enough and stutter step the chargelots the collosus will do a minimal amount of damage.

The key thing to remember is that collosus on their own are terrible units, 3 (maybe even 2 marauders) stimmed marauders can kill a collosus, the key is killing the units at the front of the deathball as fast as possible so that you can finish off the gas heavy collosus and reinforce off of mass barracks. If your ground army is supply wise at least as big as the toss's army and you dont focus on getting any vikings, as long as you get off a few emps and have good spread + stutter stepping micro your bio units will melt their gateway units. Even if you get stormed once or twice if your units are spread out it wont do much damage as you can just pull them back.


----------



## Sainesk

since were talking about vikings...


















one of the achievements I thought I might not be able to get, have you guys ever had/got an achievement you wanted but thought you may not be able to do?


----------



## poroboszcz

I agree with Mwarren. An equally upgraded lategame terran army will roll over a protoss army with a little control and you can check it in unit tester. The most common mistakes I see from terrans are falling behind on upgrades, getting too many vikings, getting too many marauders, not getting enough ghosts and not utilising drops properly. Also imo until mid game the matchup is rather terran favoured and protoss has to play a guessing game. While gas openings are relatively easy to deal with, scouting a gasless terran leaves protoss blind until like 7-8 minutes. Is it 3 rax all-in with SCVs, 1 rax FE, 2 rax pressure FE, 1 rax into double CC, 1 rax FE into 4 rax marines pressure? On 4 players map if terran blocks the ramp in time it's even worse.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I agree with Mwarren. An equally upgraded lategame terran army will roll over a protoss army with a little control and you can check it in unit tester. The most common mistakes I see from terrans are falling behind on upgrades, getting too many vikings, getting too many marauders, not getting enough ghosts and not utilising drops properly. Also imo until mid game the matchup is rather terran favoured and protoss has to play a guessing game. While gas openings are relatively easy to deal with, scouting a gasless terran leaves protoss blind until like 7-8 minutes. Is it 3 rax all-in with SCVs, 1 rax FE, 2 rax pressure FE, 1 rax into double CC, 1 rax FE into 4 rax marines pressure? On 4 players map if terran blocks the ramp in time it's even worse.


agreed. so this saying terran is underpowered now is weird to me. Every race has the same issue. Where one race lacks another race shines. THATS the beauty of having 3 different races. I believe that is a great job.


----------



## DoomDash

TvP is probably 3-4x harder than TvT or TvZ for me. Look at the TeamLiquid thread about the lack of Terrans full of TvP woes, along with the fact that Terran has always struggled with Protoss on ladder. I am not saying Terran can't beat Toss but there is no doubt in my mind there are some obvious problems with the MU that involves Terran early game advantages due to gambling, and obvious late game problems due to Protoss just being better at it. It's not just me, it's a majority of Terrans active in the community who feel this way. I am not talking about pro level, but there are obvious problems here when PvT is P's best MU by far according to polls, and TvP is T's worst MU by far according to polls. Just ignoring the problems and saying its what makes the races unique won't change the fact that there is a problem.

Mwarren regardless you are still in Diamond right now, and you are literally the only terran I know who doesn't have problems.

I can take a clear look at my my TvT's and TvZ's and say, this is how I lost, I played poorly, or I got out played. With TvP there are so many moments I look at a game and I was playing better and there really isn't ever a point where I felt I could improve that much. The MU is flawed. I hear advice from Protosses like, you made too many vikings, you made too many ghosts, you made too little vikings, you made too little ghosts, you made too many marines, you made too many marauders, you made too little marines, you made too little marauders. Did anyone ever stop to think there is no easy clear answer for the right amount of numbers you need, even if you are scanning? The warp in mechanic lets Protoss reinforce with whatever they need ( almost ) on the fly, kind of hard to pic the right comp for things like that, not to mention it seems like their late tier units compliment each other far better than anything Terran has. Zealot + Templar alone is perhaps the most deadly value in the game.

TvP used to be my best MU, for the first year of the game being released, even when TvZ was supposed to be broken and all that.

So yeah, you can say all you want but look at the polls:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319705


----------



## Sainesk

who's tried Blizzards new game? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/supplydepot/

so epic, shame it's only an April Fools joke, i'd love a game dedicated to the unsung heroes of Terran, the supply depot...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> who's tried Blizzards new game? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/supplydepot/
> so epic, shame it's only an April Fools joke, i'd love a game dedicated to the unsung heroes of Terran, the supply depo...


Thats hilarious.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Thats hilarious.


There's also this http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/blizzkidzz/

i'm now fluent in Zerg


----------



## DoomDash

I think later today I will go back to the TvP drawing board and experiment again. First thing I will try is meching again. I miss when my old 250 mm cannon thor timing push used to work back in cooldown days.


----------



## TheOddOne

Anyone wanna play a few games with me ? I'm Master and my race is Terran


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Anyone wanna play a few games with me ? I'm Master and my race is Terran


Copy cat! I'm the original oc.net master terran!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Copy cat! I'm the original oc.net master terran!


What? Bo5? Did I hear bo5?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Copy cat! I'm the original oc.net master terran!


does that motivate you to be OCNs GM Terran then...?









I think there's 3 other master terrans at least now, apart from you


----------



## thenailedone

Phew... seeing as Master Terran is taken repeatedly I will settle for Silver League (should be Bronze) Terran then









Wood League FTW!

Nailed


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> does that motivate you to be OCNs GM Terran then...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's 3 other master terrans at least now, apart from you


It does make me sad that I have had no progress in terms of leagues since day one lol. I still think I can make GM is I keep trying.

Forever masters.


----------



## TheOddOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It does make me sad that I have had no progress in terms of leagues since day one lol. I still think I can make GM is I keep trying.
> Forever masters.


Oh well I tried, but failed miserably







I'm currently rank 30, long way to go.


----------



## DoomDash

5-1 on Korea today, including one Diamond player. Wonder how far off I am for that promotion? Are the leagues locked over there already?


----------



## Zulli85

Just installed SCII, haven't played in a longggg time. What is the typical Terran build these days? I was in solo diamond league which was long before they added master league. Probably over a year ago at this point.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zulli85*
> 
> Just installed SCII, haven't played in a longggg time. What is the typical Terran build these days? I was in solo diamond league which was long before they added master league. Probably over a year ago at this point.


Depending on how aggressive you want to be, I would say the follow are pretty standard now:

TvZ - reactor hellion expand
TvP - 1 rax/2rax expand
TvT - 111 into banshee expand / 1 rax expand


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Depending on how aggressive you want to be, I would say the follow are pretty standard now:
> TvZ - reactor hellion expand
> TvP - 1 rax/2rax expand
> TvT - 111 into banshee expand / 1 rax expand


Word, thanks.

Don't think I can play ladder. The middle click drag is still messed up and I am very surprised they haven't fixed it by now. It literally makes ladder unplayable for me. Basically to move the camera around I hold down middle click, drag the mouse, and the camera moves. I never move the mouse to the edge of the screen. The problem is that when it is used quickly (which is all of the time) the mouse jumps ahead and the cursor ends up at the edge of the screen, moving the camera further than I had intended. I can't play like this and I don't know how on earth I got to diamond league before.

Anyone know of a fix for this? I know I'm in the minority here and that most people don't play RTS games like this. And don't bother trying to test it, trust me it doesn't work as it should. It works perfect in Warcraft III and Dota 2 but not in SCII.


----------



## HometownHero

Why do you use middle click and not just move your mouse to the edge of the screen? Granted, you should have your hotkeys and camera set up so you dont have to, but on the off chance you have to, just moving it to the edge would be a lot easier I think.


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Why do you use middle click and not just move your mouse to the edge of the screen? Granted, you should have your hotkeys and camera set up so you dont have to, but on the off chance you have to, just moving it to the edge would be a lot easier I think.


Dude trust me I can't. I've been doing this forever, I'm talking like 6 or 8 years maybe longer. That is a huge, huge habit to try and break. And furthermore its impossible to break because I play Dota quite a bit and it works fine there, so yeah.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zulli85*
> 
> Dude trust me I can't. I've been doing this forever, I'm talking like 6 or 8 years maybe longer. That is a huge, huge habit to try and break. And furthermore its impossible to break because I play Dota quite a bit and it works fine there, so yeah.


Hahahaha, ok then. Habits like that are hard to break, I understand.


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Hahahaha, ok then. Habits like that are hard to break, I understand.


Yea, I wish I could play like normal people. I really do, lol.


----------



## OverClocker55

GTX 580 3GB or GTX 680 2GB for max settings possible 1920x1080


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> GTX 580 3GB or GTX 680 2GB for max settings possible 1920x1080


Both would easily max the game. I believe that SCII is much more CPU dependent than GPU.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zulli85*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> GTX 580 3GB or GTX 680 2GB for max settings possible 1920x1080
> 
> 
> 
> Both would easily max the game. I believe that SCII is much more CPU dependent than GPU.
Click to expand...

Nope. Kinda both CPU and GPU dependent. It's strange, the more units you have on the map the more a powerful CPU you want to run it smoothly etc. But higher graphics require a better GPU, obviously









Heck I max the game with my 5870 at stock, 4.5Ghz even in mass 4v4 games or Marine Arena.


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope. Kinda both CPU and GPU dependent. It's strange, the more units you have on the map the more a powerful CPU you want to run it smoothly etc. But higher graphics require a better GPU, obviously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heck I max the game with my 5870 at stock, 4.5Ghz even in mass 4v4 games or Marine Arena.


is my i5 2500k good?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> GTX 580 3GB or GTX 680 2GB for max settings possible 1920x1080


I used to have issues with SCII running well maxed with my system but that was before I OCed and before I turned of vsync. Vsync just isn't that important in SCII.

2500k will be good I'm sure







. That's pretty similar to my old i7 performance.


----------



## Anti!!

My gtx580 and phenom II @4.2ghz would spike 120 fps at 1680x1050. Lol


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315604 kinda old now but tvp is obviously pretty messed up lol.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope. Kinda both CPU and GPU dependent. It's strange, the more units you have on the map the more a powerful CPU you want to run it smoothly etc. But higher graphics require a better GPU, obviously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heck I max the game with my 5870 at stock, 4.5Ghz even in mass 4v4 games or Marine Arena.
> 
> 
> 
> is my i5 2500k good?
Click to expand...

Duh
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My gtx580 and phenom II @4.2ghz would spike 120 fps at 1680x1050. Lol


But you will get very bad low FPS, I had the same with my Phenom II. Upgrading to a 2500K was amazing for min FPS in SC2.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Duh
> But you will get very bad low FPS, I had the same with my Phenom II. Upgrading to a 2500K was amazing for min FPS in SC2.


Not at 4.2ghz i didnt. haha, but yea the SB series will suit you way better. Thats why its my new siggy.


----------



## Sainesk

I didn't really notice a big difference between my Phenom II and SB cpus at stock except for when I was in large 4v4 team battles. If you mainly 1v1, I think either is fine.


----------



## CravinR1

My E6400 @ 3.2 ghz dual core + GTX 260 core 216 at stock and my Q6600 at 3.2 ghz + 5770 both play SC2 at 1680x1050 @ ultra with no slow down or hiccups. Granted I don't know the fps but am happy, and can fraps without any issues.


----------



## Twistacles

Though SC2 is CPU dependant, I saw a big difference going from a 4870 to a 7970. Extreme runs like butter baby.

@Doom.

I feel your pain. It's already frustrating enough that Diamond protosses can take games off me, but when they BM and call me bad cause they can A-move collosus...UNGH. My TvZ/TvT beats rank 10-25~ masters but my TvP barely beats diamonds. I'm either doing something horribly wrong or there is something horribly wrong with the MU.


----------



## HometownHero

Running it maxed on my computer no problem. Stutter only on customs like Nexus Wars or Desert Strike.


----------



## thenailedone

I haven't had any issues with the settings on Ultra on my sig rig @ 1920x1080... then again I am not playing enough and that is the reason for my post.

After my placement matches I was able to reach Silver (used to be Bronze when I played months ago)... thing is I don't really have a build or build order in mind when I play. Played a local tourney for the fun of it, the poor caster was trying to commentate on what he saw me doing, and the very few times I did something that almost looked standard enough to attempt a guess at my intentions I still managed to do something different.

I checked Amazon but I see nobody has bothered writing a *Starcraft 2 for Dummies* yet :/

Nailed


----------



## TheOddOne

Reapers are fun


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Reapers are fun


Kinda easy to stop if done wrong, I have snap killed a reaper with probes before it even got a kill before. I have also lost like 5 probes to one :C


----------



## OverClocker55

I stutter at medium on my 560 448 core. Hmm


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> I stutter at medium on my 560 448 core. Hmm


Everytime I hear stutter I always think stutterstep.

Plus SC2 is easy to run. My core 2 duo 2.4Ghz 8600m GT can run it on medium no problem. You should easily be able to max it out on ultra.

I know Day[9] has a 2600k at 4.7GHz, 16Gb of RAM and a GTX 560Ti. He runs stupidly huge 4v4 battles on ultra just fine while streaming even.


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Everytime I hear stutter I always think stutterstep.
> Plus SC2 is easy to run. My core 2 duo 2.4Ghz 8600m GT can run it on medium no problem. You should easily be able to max it out on ultra.
> I know Day[9] has a 2600k at 4.7GHz, 16Gb of RAM and a GTX 560Ti. He runs stupidly huge 4v4 battles on ultra just fine while streaming even.


turn off vsync? also anyone wanna post a screen shot of ideal ultra settings for 1920x1080p. when my 680 comes... well thats another story


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Everytime I hear stutter I always think stutterstep.
> Plus SC2 is easy to run. My core 2 duo 2.4Ghz 8600m GT can run it on medium no problem. You should easily be able to max it out on ultra.
> I know Day[9] has a 2600k at 4.7GHz, 16Gb of RAM and a GTX 560Ti. He runs stupidly huge 4v4 battles on ultra just fine while streaming even.
> 
> 
> 
> turn off vsync? also anyone wanna post a screen shot of ideal ultra settings for 1920x1080p. when my 680 comes... well thats another story
Click to expand...

Just use my settings and see if they work;










Fullscreen (windowed) = MUCH easier alt+tab'ing and no lag when doing so as the game continues in the background.
Reduce mouse lag = Not needed, can reduce FPS.
Indirect Shadows = Can greatly reduce FPS for nearly no visual gain.
V-Sync off = Because why not


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Just use my settings and see if they work;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fullscreen (windowed) = MUCH easier alt+tab'ing and no lag when doing so as the game continues in the background.
> Reduce mouse lag = Not needed, can reduce FPS.
> Indirect Shadows = Can greatly reduce FPS for nearly no visual gain.
> V-Sync off = Because why not


+rep


----------



## thenailedone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Fullscreen (windowed) = MUCH easier alt+tab'ing and no lag when doing so as the game continues in the background.


Hmmm... now that was something I didn't know and was wondering about a few times (saw some casters/streamers tabbing out of a game but it didn't effect the games while others would cause the whole game to stop and wait for them







...

Nailed


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> *snip*


Ooh one thing I forgot to say in my pm, so glad I had Reds for Lost Viking, surprised the spacebar (and my hand) survived...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenailedone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Fullscreen (windowed) = MUCH easier alt+tab'ing and no lag when doing so as the game continues in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm... now that was something I didn't know and was wondering about a few times (saw some casters/streamers tabbing out of a game but it didn't effect the games while others would cause the whole game to stop and wait for them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Nailed
Click to expand...

Mine actually defaulted to this and I kept wondering why my friends were lagging so much when alt tabbing, we ran through the possible differences and that turned out to be the key


----------



## mylilpony

Any diamonds want to practice? Im soooo rusty and trying to get back up to high diamond/masters . zerg.


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> Any diamonds want to practice? Im soooo rusty and trying to get back up to high diamond/masters . zerg.


I'm a noob and like zerg. Whats Diamonds?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> Any diamonds want to practice? Im soooo rusty and trying to get back up to high diamond/masters . zerg.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a noob and like zerg. Whats Diamonds?
Click to expand...

What's your ID?


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> What's your ID?


KickAss.. Thats my name. Do you need that game code thingy?


----------



## DoomDash

I'd say I'm back to close to where my skills were before, for the most part.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenailedone*
> 
> thing is I don't really have a build or build order in mind when I play. Played a local tourney for the fun of it, the poor caster was trying to commentate on what he saw me doing, and the very few times I did something that almost looked standard enough to attempt a guess at my intentions I still managed to do something different.


Meh, I don't have a build either, I do whatever I want to. I (as a terran) had heard of 1-1-1, 3 rax expand, 5-6 rax rushes. I sometimes do them (except 1-1-1 and other builds I didn't mention which I absolutely fail at) but I'm sure I have an entirely different build order (obviously mine is worse)

I just go oh.....zerg.....hey lets rush this game.....how many rax......errr......Well I'll just build one whenever I got the money to.

And sometimes I dont even plan to do anything. I'll see how much resources I have and just do what they allow me to, and only have specific units in mind after seeing the opposing force.

And I'm platinum.

Don't worry too much. Not much is required before diamond. Just don't stress yourself and try to enjoy the game. Of course if you really want to get good, study replays, watch pro-streams, learn build orders etc, by all means go ahead. Just saying that it's possible to play laid back and still have some room to improve.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> What's your ID?
> 
> 
> 
> KickAss.. Thats my name. Do you need that game code thingy?
Click to expand...

Yeah, hover over your avatar in game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *thenailedone*
> 
> thing is I don't really have a build or build order in mind when I play. Played a local tourney for the fun of it, the poor caster was trying to commentate on what he saw me doing, and the very few times I did something that almost looked standard enough to attempt a guess at my intentions I still managed to do something different.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, I don't have a build either, I do whatever I want to. I (as a terran) had heard of 1-1-1, 3 rax expand, 5-6 rax rushes. I sometimes do them (except 1-1-1 and other builds I didn't mention which I absolutely fail at) but I'm sure I have an entirely different build order (obviously mine is worse)
> 
> I just go oh.....zerg.....hey lets rush this game.....how many rax......errr......Well I'll just build one whenever I got the money to.
> 
> And sometimes I dont even plan to do anything. I'll see how much resources I have and just do what they allow me to, and only have specific units in mind after seeing the opposing force.
> 
> And I'm platinum.
> 
> Don't worry too much. Not much is required before diamond. Just don't stress yourself and try to enjoy the game. Of course if you really want to get good, study replays, watch pro-streams, learn build orders etc, by all means go ahead. Just saying that it's possible to play laid back and still have some room to improve.
Click to expand...

This is why I love macro more, it's a lot less build-order dependent.


----------



## Yukss

i run the game in the higthes settings posible.. ULTRA, no lag at all even in 4v4 mega battle


----------



## deadjon

Toss player here - Anyone wanna tell me how to smash MMM? I'm a Mid Bronzie with only 18 wins under my belt - Been playing properly for about a Month now. I know how to Four Gate and 3 Gate Robo. My FFE is dodgy. I'm kinda getting sick of MMM, the only time I ever win is when I drop macro during engagements and focus down the marauders with Immortals and the Medivacs with Stalkers. Most of the time I know thats bad, and it doesnt always work, but when ever I macro and push, I get smashed by Stim + Vac healing.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadjon*
> 
> Toss player here - Anyone wanna tell me how to smash MMM? I'm a Mid Bronzie with only 18 wins under my belt - Been playing properly for about a Month now. I know how to Four Gate and 3 Gate Robo. My FFE is dodgy. I'm kinda getting sick of MMM, the only time I ever win is when I drop macro during engagements and focus down the marauders with Immortals and the Medivacs with Stalkers. Most of the time I know thats bad, and it doesnt always work, but when ever I macro and push, I get smashed by Stim + Vac healing.


High templar (archons too) and/or colosi

Kinda sucks how tier 3 units combat the tier 1 of M/M and tier 2 of medivacs.

You will have to make stalkers / sentries until then. If he attacks you into your expo / main you can forcefield off his army. Or cut it in half with forcefields, making it much easier to kill.

Chargelots are also decent against M/M/M. But not something that terran really worries about. With colosi look out for vikings, with high templars (and archons) watch out for ghosts (the EMP on the ghost).


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadjon*
> 
> Toss player here - Anyone wanna tell me how to smash MMM? I'm a Mid Bronzie with only 18 wins under my belt - Been playing properly for about a Month now. I know how to Four Gate and 3 Gate Robo. My FFE is dodgy. I'm kinda getting sick of MMM, the only time I ever win is when I drop macro during engagements and focus down the marauders with Immortals and the Medivacs with Stalkers. Most of the time I know thats bad, and it doesnt always work, but when ever I macro and push, I get smashed by Stim + Vac healing.


i play toss to.. im i top bronze and top silver with another account.. and what i do againts terrans after scouting is 1 gate robot - colossus.. and i push ass soon as i can with 4-5 zelots, 1 colossus and some sentrys - stalkers .. kinda strong against terran and M-M-M


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Kinda sucks how tier 3 units combat the tier 1 of M/M and tier 2 of medivacs.


I'll gladly change positions.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'll gladly change positions.


+1


----------



## Anti!!

BOOO HOOO. lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Kinda sucks how tier 3 units combat the tier 1 of M/M and tier 2 of medivacs.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll gladly change positions.
Click to expand...

So like if you see Zealot / Sentry / Stalker there is pretty much no way out but thors / BCs? Or the same with ling/roach?


----------



## poroboszcz

You know what's really OP? Freaking Koreans.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You know what's really OP? Freaking Koreans.


NO freaking kidding. Doom dash has just depressed me with is report.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You know what's really OP? Freaking Koreans.


Yep. It's awesome though.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yep. It's awesome though.


I wouldnt mind being in a low division there. At least i would feel like im learning. haha


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I wouldnt mind being in a low division there. At least i would feel like im learning. haha


I don't really think the Korean server will make anyone better than another server unless you are maxing out your talents on the NA / European server already, like Naniwa for example. He always said he learned all he could learn from those servers, but me I never hit a point where I was done learning or some sort of barrier where my opponents can no longer offer me anything.

What you do learn though is different styles and builds. The koreans play a lot differently in most cases, so in theory I should become a more well rounded player, especially if I play both.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't really think the Korean server will make anyone better than another server unless you are maxing out your talents on the NA / European server already, like Naniwa for example. He always said he learned all he could learn from those servers, but me I never hit a point where I was done learning or some sort of barrier where my opponents can no longer offer me anything.
> What you do learn though is different styles and builds. The koreans play a lot differently in most cases, so in theory I should become a more well rounded player, especially if I play both.


Yea, thats kinda what i meant. IT was always fun to play the asian servers in bw and it was totally different. lol


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadjon*
> 
> Toss player here - Anyone wanna tell me how to smash MMM? I'm a Mid Bronzie with only 18 wins under my belt - Been playing properly for about a Month now. I know how to Four Gate and 3 Gate Robo. My FFE is dodgy. I'm kinda getting sick of MMM, the only time I ever win is when I drop macro during engagements and focus down the marauders with Immortals and the Medivacs with Stalkers. Most of the time I know thats bad, and it doesnt always work, but when ever I macro and push, I get smashed by Stim + Vac healing.


I'm only plat BUT

The best way to beat a Terran at my level or lower is with a 1 gate FE

9 pylon
13 gate (chrono probes after first pylon finishes) and scout with probe that drops the gate
14 gas (3 probes in gas as soon as finishes)
16 pylon
16 or 17 cyber (whenever gate finishes)
22 pylon

Constant probes, a second chrono on probes.
Chrono units from gate in this order: Zealot, stalker, sentry (your expo should go down right before or right after your sentry finishes)

After your expo is down take your second gas, drop 2 more gates, you want 3 sentries total and then I go zealot heavy (ff behind the rine/rauders to prevent kiting if they 2/3 rax and push your natural)

Important to drop your Robotics NO LATER than 6:15 (this will give you obs in time to stop 1-1-1 banshees)

I usually make one obs and send to enemy base and one over army and then a robotics bay if they havn't hit my natural yet. If they're pressuring your natural with rauders a immortal or 2 chrono'd can save you.

Thats a strong opening in PvT I personally drop 4 more gates after my natural is saturated and take my third asap (around 9 min) If I hold a big push and observer shows they're trying to expo i'll do a 8 min third and drop my twilight + double forge before the 4 additional gates and chrono charge asap.\

If they hit with cloaked banshees I'll drop a starport and get 3 phoenixes + obs to protect mineral lines and research obs speed after thermal lance.

I get 3-4 colossus then switch to HT with storm and focus chrono on forge upgrades


----------



## DoomDash

Went 3-2 on Korea today. Beat 2 plat players pretty one sided, stomped a Diamond Terran, and lost to a gold Terran. Korea:


----------



## Sainesk

I had pretty good luck on Korea in gold doing a fast reaper opening, sometimes throwing in a bunker... haven't ran into that many players that pull a yks where they pull 3 workers and lose none making me feel silly for using my favorite unit.


----------



## DoomDash

The gold terran that beat me started picking me apart with reapers. His build was really cool. Put me so behind I had almost no shot.


----------



## Anti!!

I WANNA PLAY KOREA!!!!


----------



## OverClocker55

hmm.. 5570 1GB Be able to play @ 1920x1080 low?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> hmm.. 5570 1GB Be able to play @ 1920x1080 low?


Yea, i'd say you should get around 25+ fps average with probably a drop in bigger battles.

I've ran it on my 5450 just for the fun of it which is quite a bit weaker than the 5570, was a fun experience finding what things stress the GPU (like Queens laying creep tumors and all).


----------



## CravinR1

Well according to:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172593

Quote:


> There have been several benchmarks provided by Tom's Hardware for the HD 5570, which suggest it can run SC2 @ 60fps on medium settings with a 1280x1024 resolution


http://www.techspot.com/review/305-starcraft2-performance/page9.html

Here is a benchmark with a 5570 on medium at 1920x1200 (1920x1080 isn't listed)


----------



## Anti!!

yep sure can maybe even medium


----------



## avaya

I've been beating top 25 masters tvp by always staying an expansion up on them (sort of like what zerg has to do against protoss or terran). I think it works at my rank ~15 masters level, but probably fails at GM level since forcefield and guardian shield micro is better from GM's (A gateway all-in from 7minutes up to 10 minutes is stronger against a single bunker terran at GM level). My build is standard depot/rax, then orbital command, then expo command center, then expo bunker, then 2nd depot (with a supply lock at 18/18). Even if protoss is doing the very fast 2 stalker opening (9pylon, 12gate, 14 gas, 15 gate, 16 cy core, 18 2nd pylon, 18 2x stalkers with 2x chrono boost), the bunker will finish right before the 2x stalkers arrive on the smallest maps. Slightly more scary is a single zealot attack since all my concentration will be on beating it with 2x marines while still keeping macro crisp and building scv's alive. I build a 3rd command center in my base blind (still off of 1 rax and no gas), then follow it up with 3rax and gas.

Against 4gate: If scouted, just make 3x bunkers for insta win, if you don't know until he is attacking @ 7m (which is more typical) start bunkers in main (near ramp) while retreating scv's and lifting CC. Then it ends up 1 base vs 1base except I have 3x orbital commands. Tech to 2x medivacs as fast as possible and then take both expos.

Against a big gateway push @ 10 minutes: You should have 2x medivac's built and should be able to hold if he has added other tech like observer (which almost all protoss do). Please note: this is a very difficult hold, I don't have constant scv production from about 7minutes to 10 minutes as I'm trying to get my army up as fast as possible. I'm also using several scans during this period.

Against a protoss that gets +1 armor and 6gate attacks at 8 minutes (sort of like the FFE +1 pvz build many protoss do), I'd probably just die. That almost never happens since protoss needs an observer in case of banshee.

If he is going for a big 2base attack (colossus and/or ht), my superior econ should be enough to hold. It will be something like 8 stalkers, 15 zealots, 2 sentries, 3 ranged colossus, verse my 4 medivacs and 6 vikings with 25 marines 20 marauders. If he tries to take a 3rd, I take a 4th and go live-or-die on multi-prong drops. I'm not afraid to lose 2 medivac's full of units if it means i'm also killing or even just canceling his 3rd.

Lots of the pro tvp players get 2x fast engineering bays. I usually just go 1x and am behind on upgrades the entire game :\ That's the cost of being a macro/econ player though.

Unrelated, but sc2 benchmarks are not good unless they give minimum FPS during a standard replay/game. Playing on Ultra or Extreme requires a 3ghz processor and $250 card released within the last 6 months (otherwise you will have below 30fps spikes or even quarter second complete freezes, even though your average fps may be 60+). Minimum FPS is all that matters for benchmarking sc2.

edit- fixed a typo.


----------



## DoomDash

In Korea P's are very good at trying to punish terran FE's, on NA I never see the same type of early game aggression.


----------



## DoomDash

3-0 on korea all TvZ's. I just started using SCII gears again, and although its an extremely small sample size look at the Zerg count compared to TvP or TvT lol.

Been on quite a hot streak.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Unrelated, but sc2 benchmarks are not good unless they give minimum FPS during a standard replay/game. Playing on Ultra or Extreme requires a 3ghz processor and $250 card released within the last 6 months (otherwise you will have below 30fps spikes or even quarter second complete freezes, even though your average fps may be 60+). Minimum FPS is all that matters for benchmarking sc2.
> edit- fixed a typo.


I ran it ultra with a 955 and a 4870 on 1680x1050
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> In Korea P's are very good at trying to punish terran FE's, on NA I never see the same type of early game aggression.


Thats because NA are so worried about being BM'd by idra for being cheesy or not playing macro. I love the Korean mentality. If you dont like it beat it.


----------



## DoomDash

Make that 8-1 to end the day. 8 TvZ, 1 TvP. Crazy amount of Z's jeeze!!

and the koreans mega aggressive. I love that they roach rush me so often, easy wins imo. Roaches suck ZvT imo.

2nd in my plat division, with very little chance of first sadly lol.

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/3313120/1/DoomDash/ladder/32333#current-rank

seeing green.

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/3313120/1/DoomDash/matches


----------



## Anti!!

not bad doom. Keep it up


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4798491/Climbing_the_Ladder_How_to_earn_a_League_Promotion-4_5_2012#blog

Seems like I may still be about 100 points away from a promotion according to this chart:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4798491/Climbing_the_Ladder_How_to_earn_a_League_Promotion-4_5_2012#blog

But I don't think it's entirely accurate.


----------



## Anti!!

no. just winning average. Keep playing the amount you do and you will be soon. As long as your winning like that (8-1) you wont be promoted for a WHILE. Cause its just gonna keep testing you against better and better peeps until you level out.

OR go on a losing streak.


----------



## DoomDash

I'll try to make it settle by playing more before the placements.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I ran it ultra with a 955 and a 4870 on 1680x1050


With anti aliasing? I'm surprised that is playable. IMO no reason to go above low settings unless you enable AA with your gpu first.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DoomDash

Make that now 17-4 in the last two days, I think I see a promotion definitely in coming. Last 3 guys in a row I fought and beat were Diamond.

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/3313120/1/DoomDash/matches

My Korean Replay pack for those who are interested.
http://www.MegaShare.com/4094987

in TvZ I: 2 rax marine tank medivac almost every game. I use lots of barracks walls, bunker rush, and rarely I do an 11-11 opener. Zergs LOVE roach bane all ins or roach all ins.

in TvP I: Try to punish FE Protosses with 12-14 rax ( like 2 rax vs Z ) and pull 2 SCV's with my marines to push. Surprisingly successful sometimes ( Korea style baby ). That or I try and mech and usually fail terribly. If it gets to late game assume I lost.

in TvT I: mech every game. My mech is pretty solid I rarely lose TvT. The key to mech vs bio is PDD / Ravens, I do use these a lot in my replays of TvT. One of the matches in the replay pack this guy does this mega aggressive reaper opener into aggressive bio. Pretty sure I lost to that guy awhile back with the same build, or someone beat me with the same build.

Hope someone enjoys them. I have an 82% w/l ratio against Z, 66% vs P, and 75% vs T in this pack.


----------



## Alex132

Anyone noticed a people playing with maphacks recently?

I just had some 2v2/3v3's where people would do some suspicious / lucky things such as;

picking up their drop JUST before your units get there (although they cant see them)
deciding to go to the only base w/o detection and dodging any AA (dark templars / banshees)
very rapidly finding your 'sneaky' gold expansion a few seconds after you placed it
putting up tons of AA / placing marines/stalkers/etc in their mineral line soon as your spire goes up
zerg suddenly stop droning and start mass producing units as you move out of your base.

Also on the subject of 2v2/3v3 I love my speed reaper proxy build <3

I normally go 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15/16 depot then proxy the next 2 rax and get 2nd gas around soon as my I send out my SCVs. Then get factory at 100 gas, and just pump out mass speed reapers







Attacking normally with like 5-7. It's really fun in silver / gold league.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> With anti aliasing? I'm surprised that is playable. IMO no reason to go above low settings unless you enable AA with your gpu first.


You shouldnt be suprised. Lol i did it. And ultra is ultra. And i would float around 45fps on average.


----------



## TheOddOne

Hey guys, WhiteRa came to my city last week and I think it's pretty cool to post his signature up here


----------



## Alex132

Lol, GLHF


----------



## CravinR1

That baneling building attack was posted by PsyStarcraft a few weeks ago on his tips and tricks video


----------



## sepheroth003

grats oddone, thats badass! I love watching Whitera. I'm a big fan of Husky and HD


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Hey guys, WhiteRa came to my city last week and I think it's pretty cool to post his signature up here


I would keep posting it also. haha


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> very rapidly finding your 'sneaky' gold expansion a few seconds after you placed it


no such thing as a sneaky gold in my opinion







after playing on Korea i'm no longer surprised at all by people expanding to golds on my side of the map and all. A good player has to watch gold mineral lines like a hawk.

also, Jjakji vs idrA live right now. Liked Jjakji ever since his ninja reverse mining competitive games...


----------



## DoomDash

I haven't seen a single person sneak a gold on Korea.

Idra!!


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> grats oddone, thats badass! I love watching Whitera. I'm a big fan of Husky and HD


sorry man i missed you last time


----------



## TheOddOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I haven't seen a single person sneak a gold on Korea.
> Idra!!


I think SaSe is master in Korea








Anyone plays Zerg here ? I'm in need of Zerg friends haha
Gonna add you DoomDash


----------



## Twistacles

this gstl is amazing


----------



## Anti!!

I never get to watch gsl..


----------



## splinterize

+rep

Nice thread.

Glad to see a starcraft thread on OCN









BTW,

MarineKingPrime did it!


----------



## Pwntastic

http://www.gomtv.net/ FTW!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Gonna add you DoomDash


I don't log on NA much. I will have one more full season on Korea only and I will return to laddering on NA after that.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> +rep
> Nice thread.
> Glad to see a starcraft thread on OCN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW,
> MarineKingPrime did it!


Welcome!









We love SC2!!


----------



## TheOddOne

Alive vs Squirtle LIVE now


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Alive vs Squirtle LIVE now


hope toss goes down


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> hope toss goes down


HEY

we don't support racial discrimination here


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> HEY
> we don't support racial discrimination here


hahah i knew it would go over well. haha!!

We all love sc2.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> sorry man i missed you last time


NP. I played two ladder games, lost both. I think I'm going to stop playing here and just wait until I get home. The lag here is unbearable.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Started playing.
First 5 games.
Got stomped on.

Need to work on my APM


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> Started playing.
> First 5 games.
> Got stomped on.
> Need to work on my APM


hahaha


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> NP. I played two ladder games, lost both. I think I;m going to stop playing here and just wait until I get home. The lag here is unbearable.


wouldn't that mean you rarely get to play?

That would suck...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> Started playing.
> First 5 games.
> Got stomped on.
> Need to work on my APM


Wait

First 5 games?

You mean its your first 5 games online against other real players? Or you really just started out playing the game against..... AI / Player?


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> Started playing.
> First 5 games.
> Got stomped on.
> Need to work on my APM


If you are just beginning, its not APM that will get you wins. I would say get a build down is the number one thing you can do. I highly highly recommend you watch Day[9]'s noobie tuesday. Specifically the one about stealing a build then refining it. He goes through a protoss build that a Bronze league player is trying to learn and shows you the massive difference between the first time and the 15th time or so. Takes about 2 hours of straight playing a computer player to get a build down really well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> wouldn't that mean you rarely get to play?


I'm always playing games at home. I think I'll stick with SC2 longer this time, I'm loving it. For now I can just work on my builds a little more by playing computers here. My laptop runs SC2 fine, its the connection thats so bad here. I can't give exact dates, but I'll be home in a few short weeks. I'm so excited!


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> wouldn't that mean you rarely get to play?
> That would suck...
> Wait
> First 5 games?
> You mean its your first 5 games online against other real players? Or you really just started out playing the game against..... AI / Player?


Just started SC2.
I used to play BW WAY back when. Then I just kinda stopped honestly


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I'm always playing games at home. I think I'll stick with SC2 longer this time, I'm loving it. For now I can just work on my builds a little more by playing computers here. My laptop runs SC2 fine, its the connection thats so bad here. I can't give exact dates, but I'll be home in a few short weeks. I'm so excited!


hohooo

Surely we will meet up and play some day, I ain't going anywhere









Glad to hear your laptop running the game smooth too, you run it on med-high? I myself plan on buying a 14" laptop late this year, and it has to be able to handle SC2 and most importantly Guild wars 2 (which might be impossible at the time). It will replace my soon-to-be 5 year old laptop and hopefully last another at least 4 years. I have high hopes.....

It kind of needs to max Diablo 3 too but then I got to think about it...... well from all the info I can gather it doesn't stress anything at all, meh might as well leave that part out, haha....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> Just started SC2.
> I used to play BW WAY back when. Then I just kinda stopped honestly


then I would absolutely suggest you to play with medium computer AI first for lets say 10 games (at "faster")

you know, get your tech tree basics down, get a little micro going (hot key binds, at least use like 1 group for army and another group for barracks, etc), get used to different matchups, learn at least 1-2 builds that you can execute decently, etc

Otherwise you will get owned in the first ~30 games for nothing.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

I'm working on Reaper rush for Basic Terran.
I've watched a fair amount of Husky to get the basic jist of it.
Just down to how I like my Hot keys and how to combat potential problems


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> *snip*


lol at Red. Already hitting tanks, decide to run Bio army away when they start sieging up, and half his army at 13:10 just dancing around waiting for the units in front to die so they can get in range... what league is this?


----------



## OverClocker55

Anyone wanna just practice? Picked up a new gpu ''Below'' so im ready for ultra


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Anyone wanna just practice? Picked up a new gpu ''Below'' so im ready for ultra


///facepalm. That is like the fourth high end gpu you have had that I know of. SHOOT! I ultrad it with a 4870.

Edit: Nvm I thought you were trolling, but i see your profile pic in the background. My apologies.


----------



## HarrisLam

just lost 3 4v4's in a roll

God I hate it when I'm doing decent making the right moves and my teammates just can't keep up

Not that I'm really good or anything, I just seem to get paired with weaker teammates a lot of the time, which really shouldn't happen cuz it's gold already

Oh well Anti, people don't just stick to playing 1 game I suppose


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> lol at Red. Already hitting tanks, decide to run Bio army away when they start sieging up, and half his army at 13:10 just dancing around waiting for the units in front to die so they can get in range... what league is this?


He is high Platinum. I think Koreans get higher leagues than the deserve lots of time because they practice the same gimmicky build over and over.

And yeah I remember thinking I might have been in trouble when he caught me unsieged that first time.. I loled when he ran.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He is high Platinum. I think Koreans get higher leagues than the deserve lots of time because they practice the same gimmicky build over and over.
> And yeah I remember thinking I might have been in trouble when he caught me unsieged that first time.. I loled when he ran.


Agreed.


----------



## DoomDash

OK I decided I should play NA and Korea next season, not just one or the other. I really want to be back to 100% and then some. Ready for next season







.


----------



## thenailedone

my GG buttons just arrived... no BM from me ever again









Nailed


----------



## Ruckol1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He is high Platinum. I think Koreans get higher leagues than the deserve lots of time because they practice the same gimmicky build over and over.
> And yeah I remember thinking I might have been in trouble when he caught me unsieged that first time.. I loled when he ran.


Yeah I'm only high plat on the KR server..


----------



## sepheroth003

Why did Blizz make the computer so not human like? All they do is rush at the 6-9min mark, they take the most direct parth, never a drop, blink up hill or anything like that.

I'm primarily working on my build orders trying to get them down, but Very Hard computer is just way too easy and Insane is seemingly impossible. Any recommendations on how I can become a better player without playing on ladder? The lag here is too much, I just want to get better before I get home in a few weeks back to my good desktop and connection.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Why did Blizz make the computer so not human like? All they do is rush at the 6-9min mark, they take the most direct parth, never a drop, blink up hill or anything like that.
> I'm primarily working on my build orders trying to get them down, but Very Hard computer is just way too easy and Insane is seemingly impossible. Any recommendations on how I can become a better player without playing on ladder? The lag here is too much, I just want to get better before I get home in a few weeks back to my good desktop and connection.


Insane is the way to go then.







Its not impossible you can beat them. You may not be able to practice the build you want to but you can beat them. You can even try to do macro oriented builds, but you get "stopped" by a one basing person. It will really help you multi task if you can still inch forward in macro even when your trying to stop the AI pressure.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Why did Blizz make the computer so not human like? All they do is rush at the 6-9min mark, they take the most direct parth, never a drop, blink up hill or anything like that.
> I'm primarily working on my build orders trying to get them down, but Very Hard computer is just way too easy and Insane is seemingly impossible. Any recommendations on how I can become a better player without playing on ladder? The lag here is too much, I just want to get better before I get home in a few weeks back to my good desktop and connection.


Try macro or die custom map the ai is significantly altered, cant say it acts particularly human but it is allot better than the blizz standard one.

Playing vs insane computer doesn't teach you much except how to beat the insane computer, honestly if all you want to do is perfect a build, solo on a build tester is fine you just need to be aware of what times certain attack can come and decide whether your build will hold them at those times. all the info you needs in your replays.

I used to watch every replay after every game and make a note of any timings where either my opponent or I had a significant advantage, and try and remove the former from my builds while trying to capitalise on the latter.


----------



## Anti!!

Honeslty that is just your opinion. Im not saying it will teach you mounds of info but if you are only bronze or silver trying to macro while stopping pressure will at least help him develop useful multi taskin skills. But what you suggested is also helpful.


----------



## Dr216

I'm not saying you cant learn anything from it but IMO its a very inefficient way to learn those same lessons. The best way to deal with pressure while still macroing is to have practised your macro/build so much that it is more or less completely automatic so all your concentration can be focused on the battle and what the enemy is doing without getting behind econ/army wise.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> I'm not saying you cant learn anything from it but IMO its a very inefficient way to learn those same lessons. The best way to deal with pressure while still macroing is to have practised your macro/build so much that it is more or less completely automatic so all your concentration can be focused on the battle and what the enemy is doing without getting behind econ/army wise.


I would tend to agree. Its just his options are limited with so much lag. I thought something was better than nothing.


----------



## snelan

Just made plat. I have to say that I have to play differently than I did in Gold. I actually have to try in Plat. It seems to be more adapting and countering, whereas in Gold I could just make lings and win.

Also, how do you guys like Ohama? I think it's kinda interesting, but Daybreak LE will always be my favorite lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Korea is still locked not on Season 7, and I haven't had a chance to play on NA yet. Will tonight new maps look cool.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Korea is still locked not on Season 7, and I haven't had a chance to play on NA yet. Will tonight new maps look cool.


I <3 Daybreak. I'm also interested to see if the wider skill margins Blizzard put in for S7 makes a big difference on the ladder.


----------



## snelan

How do you Zergs deal with your ramp being forcefielded if the toss 3 gate robos, and uses a warp prism to get into your main? I usually just make 1 spine at my front and mass speedlings vs these all ins, but in this case I may as well have no army, as they can just infinitely forcefield.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Why did Blizz make the computer so not human like? All they do is rush at the 6-9min mark, they take the most direct parth, never a drop, blink up hill or anything like that.
> 
> I'm primarily working on my build orders trying to get them down, but Very Hard computer is just way too easy and Insane is seemingly impossible. Any recommendations on how I can become a better player without playing on ladder? The lag here is too much, I just want to get better before I get home in a few weeks back to my good desktop and connection.


Try Green Tea AI - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235523 - search for "GTAI" in game. It's a custom AI that is roughly plat/diamond level and is a bit more interesting than the standard SC2 AI. Every once in a while it'll do something completely idiotic (one base ultras, worker rush, etc), but the majority of the time it's a pretty decent practice bot. There's some basic in-game options that let you choose build orders to play against (I usually just random) as well as some commands - you can use "-qr" to immediately restart the game, etc.


----------



## 13321G4

Another option is to actually play against players. Go to the public chat "Looking for Custom Games". It is usually busy (40 peeps), you ask for a game against some one your level ("Toss looking for 1v1 Silver-Gold"). If you get lucky you find someone with almost 'exactly' your skill level and boom, pratice partner.
If people don't react, filter through the inhabitants of the chat till you find someone at your level and ask them for a game.

When I switched hotkeys, I first played games against AI but felt the AI lacking, by playing games against players slightly lower than my level (so I could get used to the hotkey layout) I managed to learn them fast. Once I felt like I knew the layout I went back to laddering.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Another option is to actually play against players. Go to the public chat "Looking for Custom Games". It is usually busy (40 peeps), you ask for a game against some one your level ("Toss looking for 1v1 Silver-Gold"). If you get lucky you find someone with almost 'exactly' your skill level and boom, pratice partner.
> If people don't react, filter through the inhabitants of the chat till you find someone at your level and ask them for a game.
> When I switched hotkeys, I first played games against AI but felt the AI lacking, by playing games against players slightly lower than my level (so I could get used to the hotkey layout) I managed to learn them fast. Once I felt like I knew the layout I went back to laddering.


He is having an issue with lag being stationed over seas.


----------



## Sainesk

ewww, lost my placement and put in Gold rofl









oh well haven't lost a single game yet with my weakest race as Random (Protoss) hopefully i'll be back to Plat and beyond in no time. I'm liking Ohana, Metro not so much.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> ewww, lost my placement and put in Gold rofl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well haven't lost a single game yet with my weakest race as Random (Protoss) hopefully i'll be back to Plat and beyond in no time. I'm liking Ohana, Metro not so much.


Yeah, i dont like metro much either. I can stand it i suppose.


----------



## DoomDash

I've only got Ohana of the new maps so far, and I still don't know how I like it yet. Usually takes me awhile to make up my mind, especially if I find nice tank spots or terrible pylon spots.

I decided to check off 3 maps that are all old now to higher my chances, last being Alter. Sick of playing TvZ on this map especially now that they removed my gully/tank abuse spot.


----------



## TheOddOne

My quest to get 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 Master is about to begin.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> My quest to get 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 Master is about to begin.


what have you been in 1v1?


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> He is having an issue with lag being stationed over seas.


Not for too much longer! YAY!

So I played a couple 1v1 matches against my 2v2 partner. He whopped me pretty good. Then we went over some game mechanics and I learned a few things.

A: I completely underestimate and underuse sentries. 1 Immortal gets owned by 3 Rauders, throw in a Guardian sheild, it changes drastically. Also I now understand a little better that the MM ball tries to kite so my zealots dont get on them. A few Force Fields will stop them from running away. I've always seen this in replays and Husky/HD videos but never really done it myself.

B: Micro. I'm dumb. I always thought to do micro you right click (move), then A Click (attack), repeat. Apparently its right click (move), s (stop), repeat. I couldn't practice it too well last night. I kid you not the lag is so bad I click to move a stalker and count 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, then he finally moves.

So heres a generic question. Each season obviously has certain maps that are played on ladder? How do I find the list so I can look at them in single player?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Not for too much longer! YAY!
> So I played a couple 1v1 matches against my 2v2 partner. He whopped me pretty good. Then we went over some game mechanics and I learned a few things.
> A: I completely underestimate and underuse sentries. 1 Immortal gets owned by 3 Rauders, throw in a Guardian sheild, it changes drastically. Also I now understand a little better that the MM ball tries to kite so my zealots dont get on them. A few Force Fields will stop them from running away. I've always seen this in replays and Husky/HD videos but never really done it myself.
> B: Micro. I'm dumb. *I always thought to do micro you right click (move), then A Click (attack), repeat. Apparently its right click (move), s (stop), repeat*. I couldn't practice it too well last night. I kid you not the lag is so bad I click to move a stalker and count 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, then he finally moves.
> So heres a generic question. Each season obviously has certain maps that are played on ladder? How do I find the list so I can look at them in single player?


I do use the former even though I know the correct move is the latter, because I can never get the range right

there were times when I try to do move-S, (at least half of )they stop before they actually get in range









the move-A-move is 1 more click per cycle, but eliminates this problem.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> the move-A-move is 1 more click per cycle, but eliminates this problem.


I'd say its considerably more difficult. Especially if you are chasing down units, easy to click a unit instead of the ground.


----------



## Anti!!

I still use a-move micro too. I just get more response. lol

Doesnt mean its right though.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I'd say its considerably more difficult. Especially if you are chasing down units, easy to click a unit instead of the ground.


more difficult than what?

if you're comparing it to stutter step + focus firing I'll have to disagree. It's way easier to click on the ground than to click on a specific unit. The unit is the size of what, a dime? while the ground is as big as your screen minus UI and buildings. I found it much easier to Move-A-move for stutter steps. Will make sure they hit something instead of just standing there because it's out of range to hit anything at all.

Just me microing bad thats all


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Will make sure they hit something instead of just standing there because it's out of range to hit anything at all.


Good point.

I still have to understand unit counters better, so I can understand which units I focus. It's a pain playing the Protoss ball, mixing your units and trying to kill different types of units.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I'd say its considerably more difficult. Especially if you are chasing down units, easy to click a unit instead of the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> more difficult than what?
> 
> if you're comparing it to stutter step + focus firing I'll have to disagree. It's way easier to click on the ground than to click on a specific unit. The unit is the size of what, a dime? while the ground is as big as your screen minus UI and buildings. I found it much easier to Move-A-move for stutter steps. Will make sure they hit something instead of just standing there because it's out of range to hit anything at all.
> 
> Just me microing bad thats all
Click to expand...

Loads of people just right click, s, right click, s, etc. It's not good. Better to right click on the thing you wanna kill, then right click beyond it to move there. Or you can do the SC1 move, a, move, a.

I love the terran units micro, it's much easier IMO than most other races. I am slowly learning terran again, but I find to be SO much more aggro with terran than zerg or protoss.


----------



## poroboszcz

The pros way is to kite and focus fire at the same time. For example when kiting marines with stalkers you should focus fire marines one by one and kite at the same time: click away, right click or a-click marine, click away, repeat. I find a-click safer, because if you misclick your stalkers will just attack something rather then walk into the marines.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Another option is to actually play against players. Go to the public chat "Looking for Custom Games". It is usually busy (40 peeps), you ask for a game against some one your level ("Toss looking for 1v1 Silver-Gold"). If you get lucky you find someone with almost 'exactly' your skill level and boom, pratice partner.
> If people don't react, filter through the inhabitants of the chat till you find someone at your level and ask them for a game.
> When I switched hotkeys, I first played games against AI but felt the AI lacking, by playing games against players slightly lower than my level (so I could get used to the hotkey layout) I managed to learn them fast. Once I felt like I knew the layout I went back to laddering.
> 
> 
> 
> He is having an issue with lag being stationed over seas.
Click to expand...

Oeps missed that, still a good tip for others though.

also









<---


----------



## sepheroth003

So I've learned you can't ask generic questions on how to get better, so I'm trying to ask specific ones.

Protoss getting a 2nd base up, how many probes do I transfer?

I assum exactly half if I'm good enough to do it quick. That way I hotkey both nexus on one button and make new probes evenly.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> The pros way is to kite and focus fire at the same time. For example when kiting marines with stalkers you should focus fire marines one by one and kite at the same time: click away, right click or a-click marine, click away, repeat. I find a-click safer, because if you misclick your stalkers will just attack something rather then walk into the marines.


Meh never had a problem with that


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> So I've learned you can't ask generic questions on how to get better, so I'm trying to ask specific ones.
> Protoss getting a 2nd base up, how many probes do I transfer?
> I assum exactly half if I'm good enough to do it quick. That way I hotkey both nexus on one button and make new probes evenly.


Depends if your above sixteen on your mainpc minerals or not. Cause if your not you can rally both nexuses at your nat. This way you lose no mining time but if your doing like a 3 gate expand and your over saturated preparing for the expand you transfer evenly.

@ rnd congrats on gold!!


----------



## CravinR1

transfer mineral mining probes > 16 (dont' count gas mining probes) to expo

Though personally if I do a 1 gate fe I just rally both nexus to the natural and don't transfer any (this is PvT only)


----------



## sepheroth003

Ya I don't count gas, and when I transfer I think it's normally around 26-28.


----------



## Alex132

I just swing like 6-10 probes across, whatever floats my pylon.

Also does anyone here count probes/drones/scv's and then try to guess their build off of that?


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4833874/Developer_Update_Heart_of_the_Swarm_Multiplayer-4_11_2012#blog

Glad they got rid of the Replicator unit for Protoss, didn't take a genius to figure out that would be broken and dumb. Sad about shredder, happy about the Thor possibly staying.


----------



## thenailedone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> ewww, lost my placement and put in Gold rofl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well haven't lost a single game yet with my weakest race as Random (Protoss) hopefully i'll be back to Plat and beyond in no time. I'm liking Ohana, Metro not so much.


Interesting thread on Team Liquid about the new Match Making system and it also touched on Placement matches... apparently they have no bearing on where you end up being placed (would link the thread but @ work currently and the site is blocked thanks to it being flagged "Gaming related".)

Nailed


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4833874/Developer_Update_Heart_of_the_Swarm_Multiplayer-4_11_2012#blog
> Glad they got rid of the Replicator unit for Protoss, didn't take a genius to figure out that would be broken and dumb. Sad about shredder, happy about the Thor possibly staying.


So happy about the changes they've made to the new units. Hopefully they will realize they need to keep the Mothership and scrap the nexus' mass recall.


----------



## HarrisLam

DAT SONG........ROFL......

seriously though.....if that song is even REMOTELY accurate, no MM terran would be struggling......









Don't even start the "we aren't good enough to talk about balance," mass-rax-stim timing attack is a sub-diamond strategy we all know that. They are talking about the lower-tier play field this time. While the song is pretty funny, it's just either 1.5 years late, or not close to the truth at the moment.

and if they REALLY make a similar zerg ability like the blinding cloud, I'm switching race no matter what

I mean it

I don't get why the MM ball get so much hate after the nerf they got, it's true that its effective, but what about speedlings, and banelings (tier 1.5?) huh? At which point of the game exactly does a zerg player stop producing them? Right, never?

I honestly think a song devoted to baneling would be even more funny. The only 1 unit that can deal with it (except air) is marauder with concussive shells anyway. Even a whole siege tank line could be wiped out in 3 seconds as long as zerg has ~20 lings as cover


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> DAT SONG........ROFL......
> seriously though.....if that song is even REMOTELY accurate, no MM terran would be struggling......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't even start the "we aren't good enough to talk about balance," mass-rax-stim timing attack is a sub-diamond strategy we all know that. They are talking about the lower-tier play field this time. While the song is pretty funny, it's just either 1.5 years late, or not close to the truth at the moment.
> and if they REALLY make a similar zerg ability like the blinding cloud, I'm switching race no matter what
> I mean it
> I don't get why the MM ball get so much hate after the nerf they got, it's true that its effective, but what about speedlings, and banelings (tier 1.5?) huh? At which point of the game exactly does a zerg player stop producing them? Right, never?
> I honestly think a song devoted to baneling would be even more funny. The only 1 unit that can deal with it (except air) is marauder with concussive shells anyway. Even a whole siege tank line could be wiped out in 3 seconds as long as zerg has ~20 lings as cover


Harrislam now steps off his soap box to join the normal population**

Lol!!! I didnt think that song was based on truth. I just think they are running outta stuff to sing about. Next it will be about the thug life of a probe or hellion. Lol


----------



## Mwarren

If they keep the thor they need to get rid of the energy handicap on the thor and BC. Both of those units shouldn't have energy, you dont see HT's feedbacking Ultras or Broodlords do you? Mech would be much more viable if they gave siege tanks a damage upgrade against biological units on the fusion core and got rid of the energy on Thor/BCs. Right now siege tanks are garbage vs zealots and mech isn't as strong as it should be due to maxing out on tanks being supply unefficient considering their 3 supply cost vs their 2 supply cost in BW.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Harrislam now steps off his soap box to join the normal population**
> Lol!!! I didnt think that song was based on truth. I just think they are running outta stuff to sing about. Next it will be about the thug life of a probe or hellion. Lol


did they have a song before that?

sing about them blue-flame drivebys could be fun


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> did they have a song before that?
> sing about them blue-flame drivebys could be fun


Have a song where the hellion is a very sensitive guy with a lisp complaining about why they call him a hellion. I see the video having rainbows in it lol

Ok I am starting to love HTs, but I really don't know when to make them. It seems like if I have 3 gate robo I need to cut army production just to get HTs out on one base. Any insight on this?


----------



## Alex132

If you have problems with zealots with mech, then you're meching wrong. Mech is the strongest Terran strategy IMO. Against a protoss death ball you should take advantage of their lack of mobility and lack to warp in at home due to being maxed out. Dropping can be deadly. Marauder are also very good to mix in with tanks against a gateway/HT/colosi comp. Also having BCs and/or Thors can be great. Nukes/EMPs can be used to force the toss to not engage etc. There is a lot you can do. You cant just have tanks, you need a buffer zone too. And spread your tanks right.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> If you have problems with zealots with mech, then you're meching wrong. Mech is the strongest Terran strategy IMO. Against a protoss death ball you should take advantage of their lack of mobility and lack to warp in at home due to being maxed out. Dropping can be deadly. Marauder are also very good to mix in with tanks against a gateway/HT/colosi comp. Also having BCs and/or Thors can be great. Nukes/EMPs can be used to force the toss to not engage etc. There is a lot you can do. You cant just have tanks, you need a buffer zone too. And spread your tanks right.


charge zealots make a brutal mess of tanks even with a nice spread. you have to be very very careful they are like Cracklings but more so, its all about supporting your tanks if he can get his zealots into your tank line then you are more or less done, Mech also suffers from low mobility and slow reinforce both of which are pretty killer vs a lategame toss especially the reinforce.

Not saying mech cant be effective just saying its not all that easy and if your good enough to mech im pretty certain you will normally get better results with Bio If your finding it a strong strat its most likely due to the Toss your fighting being unfamiliar with it rather than it being fundamentally stronger.

That said I only ever play random and T is my weakest race so it could be im just doing it wrong.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> If you have problems with zealots with mech, then you're meching wrong. *Mech is the strongest Terran strategy IMO*. Against a protoss death ball you should take advantage of their lack of mobility and lack to warp in at home due to being maxed out. Dropping can be deadly. Marauder are also very good to mix in with tanks against a gateway/HT/colosi comp. Also having BCs and/or Thors can be great. Nukes/EMPs can be used to force the toss to not engage etc. There is a lot you can do. You cant just have tanks, you need a buffer zone too. And spread your tanks right.


tend to agree.

However I suck so much balls with it.

Hellions are non-existent in my build, tanks I'm pretty bad at, Thors I get pretty often, but lack the knowledge to use them wisely

I always wanted to get better with tanks but never really have noticeable improvements

God do I really need to go back to 1v1....I hate it more and more as time goes by....


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Have a song where the hellion is a very sensitive guy with a lisp complaining about why they call him a hellion. I see the video having rainbows in it lol
> Ok I am starting to love HTs, but I really don't know when to make them. It seems like if I have 3 gate robo I need to cut army production just to get HTs out on one base. Any insight on this?


Its a double rainbow!!!

@harrislam. Yea they have one about fourgate. One about voidrays. One about banelings. So on.


----------



## DoomDash

Mech is best in TvT, followed by TvZ, followed by TvP. TvP mech sucks, Protoss has to really not know how to deal with it to lose IMO. Beating mech in PvT is wayyyy too easy.

Bonus video lawls:


----------



## CravinR1

How does P beat Mech/BCs ?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> How does P beat Mech/BCs ?


Normal comp + some voids, nothing special.

BTW I placed into Diamond on the Korean server !!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> If you have problems with zealots with mech, then you're meching wrong. *Mech is the strongest Terran strategy IMO*. Against a protoss death ball you should take advantage of their lack of mobility and lack to warp in at home due to being maxed out. Dropping can be deadly. Marauder are also very good to mix in with tanks against a gateway/HT/colosi comp. Also having BCs and/or Thors can be great. Nukes/EMPs can be used to force the toss to not engage etc. There is a lot you can do. You cant just have tanks, you need a buffer zone too. And spread your tanks right.
> 
> 
> 
> tend to agree.
> 
> However I suck so much balls with it.
> 
> Hellions are non-existent in my build, tanks I'm pretty bad at, Thors I get pretty often, but lack the knowledge to use them wisely
> 
> I always wanted to get better with tanks but never really have noticeable improvements
> 
> God do I really need to go back to 1v1....I hate it more and more as time goes by....
Click to expand...

You need to use a lot of hellions, mech is very gas dependent whereas bio is more mineral dependent. Trading a few hellions for a handfull of SCVs is ok, because it wont hurt you as much.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Normal comp + some voids, nothing special.
> BTW I placed into Diamond on the Korean server !!


Congrats!. Dash hwaiting.


----------



## DoomDash

I can't imagine playing Terran with out using tanks, and well. Best unit ever.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I can't imagine playing Terran with out using tanks, and well. Best unit ever.


Just wait until you meet the marine









In the famous words of MarineKing; "Marine imba"


----------



## DoomDash

Marine is my 2nd favorite unit after the tank.

Korean Server stats lol:










I'm on a 9 streak btw. But man look at that Zerg count, its crazy. Where are all the Protosses? I can't say I miss them but I do want to practice TvP since its my worst.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Marine is my 2nd favorite unit after the tank.
> Korean Server stats lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on a 9 streak btw. But man look at that Zerg count, its crazy. Where are all the Protosses? I can't say I miss them but I do want to practice TvP since its my worst.


I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Bonus video lawls:


I bet he raged hard there.


----------



## OverClocker55

Is it wierd that this game is almost boring to me now?


----------



## Slayem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Is it wierd that this game is almost boring to me now?


Yes =P. Well Hots comes soon enough!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?


My APM is pretty average Master level APM, if you have APM like me in a lower league you are doing a lot wrong in the strategy department







. I've seen a few mid-high master Protoss players with 90 APM ( old apm ). Also my mech is slower APM.

You have to have a korean SSN to get an account lol. Actually I think you can get one of these now:

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1893


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slayem*
> 
> Yes =P. Well Hots comes soon enough!


NOT


----------



## DoomDash

I don't expect HotS till 2013.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?
> 
> 
> 
> My APM is pretty average Master level APM, if you have APM like me in a lower league you are doing a lot wrong in the strategy department
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I've seen a few mid-high master Protoss players with 90 APM ( old apm ). Also my mech is slower APM.
> 
> You have to have a korean SSN to get an account lol. Actually I think you can get one of these now:
> 
> http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1893
Click to expand...

Yea, if you're not in Korea, easiest way to play on their servers is with a Taiwan account. I can make a guide in the OP later (on my phone now), it cost me like between 40-45 bucks where I got it from so bit cheaper than sc2sea.


----------



## HometownHero

Price isnt bad, just wondering if I want two WoL accounts or just wait to buy an SEA account when HoTS comes out. If it comes out this year, it probably wont be until Q4; Blizzard would never release D3 close to HoTS.


----------



## DoomDash

Well what reason do you want a Korean account for? I've said it before, if you aren't at least Masters, and probably still not even then, you won't gain anything from it.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Marine is my 2nd favorite unit after the tank.
> Korean Server stats lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on a 9 streak btw. But man look at that Zerg count, its crazy. Where are all the Protosses? I can't say I miss them but I do want to practice TvP since its my worst.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?
Click to expand...

That's actually a very high constant APM. I know a GM locally who's APM is like 60-70, my friend who often beats him's APM is about 50ish. APM doesn't mean much really. I know NesTea's APM can vary from an average of about 70 to 370. It all depends on the used APM, length of the game, and the battles in the game.


----------



## HarrisLam

why are you guys talking about SEA accounts now, are SEA and KR linked in anyway? I never knew that


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?


It's slightly above average, tbh. If sc2gears is a judge, most masters play around 125-130 apm, with maybe 1/3 around 160. The outliers are the ones that play at 175+. Usually T/Zs

I pesonally average around 170-180 but im still low masters lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I did not expect your apm to be that low, no offense obviously. Grats on that win streak though, tough to do with all that Korean cheese. How would one go about getting a Korean account?
> 
> 
> 
> It's slightly above average, tbh. If sc2gears is a judge, most masters play around 125-130 apm, with maybe 1/3 around 160. The outliers are the ones that play at 175+. Usually T/Zs
> 
> I pesonally average around 170-180 but im still low masters lol
Click to expand...

It still is a stupid benchmark, heck I can spam the crap out of everything and average ~300 apm in a normal 7-10 minute game. But that makes you more tired for the following games, and more likely to make a mistake. Also it's just spam.


----------



## snelan

Since this IS the strategy and discussion thread lol:

I found a build on TeamLiquid that seems to destroy FFE's and other Protoss builds with fast expands in them. It basically takes advantage of the Toss' sim city.

TL Link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268413

Here are some of my replays doing it, I forgot to put drones on gas after hatchery on the first one, so I missed a roach, but ideally you have 8 roaches and just pump out speedlings afterward.

http://drop.sc/158510
http://drop.sc/158511
http://drop.sc/158591

The Build:

14 Gas (3 Until Metabolic Boost, Then Pull 2)
14 Pool
16 Overlord
16 Queen + Metabolic Boost
18 Zergling
19 Zergling
20 Drone (Hatchery Builder Drone, Rally to Nat)
21 Hatchery (Put 2 Drones Back on Gas)
20 Drone
21 Drone
22 Drone
23 Overlord
23 Roach Warren (Between 4:50-5:00)
22 Overlord (= 44 Supply Cap With Second Hatch)


----------



## HometownHero

I just thought it was interesting. My APM is usually ~190, but a lot of it stems from tapping and a habit of not leaving my units still for more than a few seconds. I like to harass with my scv until the first ling/zealot/rine too. Its by no means an effective measure of skill, just look at Goody.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I just thought it was interesting. My APM is usually ~190, but a lot of it stems from tapping and a habit of not leaving my units still for more than a few seconds. I like to harass with my scv until the first ling/zealot/rine too. Its by no means an effective measure of skill, just look at Goody.


Honestly if your APM is that high you could either be using it far more effectively or you lack the strategy. I would keep that in mind because I can't think of any way that isn't holding you back. As others said mine is probably slightly above average in Masters even.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Honestly if your APM is that high you could either be using it far more effectively or you lack the strategy. I would keep that in mind because I can't think of any way that isn't holding you back. As others said mine is probably slightly above average in Masters even.


Oh, I definitely lack strategy. I just dont have the opportunity to play enough.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well what reason do you want a Korean account for? I've said it before, if you aren't at least Masters, and probably still not even then, you won't gain anything from it.


We want to experience KR play.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Since this IS the strategy and discussion thread lol:
> I found a build on TeamLiquid that seems to destroy FFE's and other Protoss builds with fast expands in them. It basically takes advantage of the Toss' sim city.
> {snip})


Yeah the roach ling timming has been floating around for a long time now think its nearly a year since nestea used it to win a gsl final even.

I've used to use it allot in ZvP as P back when i was playing allot were almost always greedy as anything


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> We want to experience KR play.


Yeah, basically that's it. Less ladder anxiety since no one I know would know I have it hahaha.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well what reason do you want a Korean account for? I've said it before, if you aren't at least Masters, and probably still not even then, you won't gain anything from it.


I disagree. I think it's much easier to see your mistakes against more aggressive and refined play style on KR server even at lower levels. Like you could play 100 games on EU/NA and never realise mistakes you make, because your opponents are not able to punish them. On KR even at similar skill level you'll encounter a bigger variety of strategies which in turn will help you refine your own builds. Maybe it's just my impression, but I feel EU ladder is much more laid-back compared to KR where winning is the only goal.


----------



## DoomDash

Maybe it's because I haven't hit my MMR yet in Korea, but I find the all ins generally a big advantage for me.


----------



## Anti!!

So, doomdash. Are you married? Do you gave kids? A job? Or are you in college? Do you live with your parents? Just curious. Cause i want sorely to invest the time you are able to but i just cant.. lol


----------



## Sainesk

Okay done, I think i'll add this to the OP, and i'll also add to it how to install the Korean/Taiwan client. Warning: lotsa pics...


Spoiler: How to create a Taiwan Starcraft 2 account and play on Korean/Taiwan region



The main difference between the Korean and Taiwan version is the language, but the regions are linked so you'll face people on both regions. I've done this multiple times with no problems:

1. Go to Offgamers.com and go to my account, click on register now and fill everything out.


















2. Go to http://www.offgamers.com/starcraft/starcraft-ii-tw-hk/starcraft-ii-cd-key-c-4183-6056-6057.ogm and click on add to cart, then checkout and pay, it cost me roughly $43 USD/CAD using Paypal.










3. Go to your offgamer account, click on completed order history, click on your order then on "show", it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes for your order to show up if you payed with an instant payment option.










4. Go to the Battle.net site, login or create a new account depending on if you want a separate account for your Taiwan/Korean SC2, click on buy digital games, change the region to Taiwan (on the right) and then click on continue


















5. Go to Balance and click on Load Balance, enter the numerical only code you see when you click on "show" in your offgamer account into the box, submit (if submit is greyed, left click outside the text box) you should now have 1150 points.


















6. Click on Buy Digital games, Buy now under Starcraft 2, *choose the unlimited game time option* and then just continue and accept the terms and conditions and complete the order.


















You're done, now you can download the Taiwan/Korean version of Starcraft 2.



hope it's clear enough... it's basically just an updated version of other guides on places like TL, with a few pics thrown in.


----------



## DoomDash

Nice job.

and after a terrible night on Korea I've decided to all in Protoss 100% of the time. The more I can avoid the late game the better. I'm seriously done with the amount of skill required to win late game TvP, TvZ and TvT late game are a breeze in comparison.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Nice job.
> and after a terrible night on Korea I've decided to all in Protoss 100% of the time. The more I can avoid the late game the better. I'm seriously done with the amount of skill required to win late game TvP, TvZ and TvT late game are a breeze in comparison.


What kind of all-ins? 3 Rax? Something else? curious what your win rate vs P would become...


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Nice job.
> and after a terrible night on Korea I've decided to all in Protoss 100% of the time. The more I can avoid the late game the better. I'm seriously done with the amount of skill required to win late game TvP, TvZ and TvT late game are a breeze in comparison.


I mean I know you Terran, but I feel the same way as Zerg. 10 Roach Rush to victory!


----------



## sepheroth003

Roaches are a pain when I FE. Seems if I get my obs out before an immortal I lose. Very broad observation there from probably not many games, just what I've seen.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Roaches are a pain when I FE. Seems if I get my obs out before an immortal I lose. Very broad observation there from probably not many games, just what I've seen.


why do you need an obs before anything against zerg? It's not like they have banshees and DTs and stuff like that


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> why do you need an obs before anything against zerg? It's not like they have banshees and DTs and stuff like that


Dude I'm gold! How do I know? lol

But really, I dunno, to scout? Because I can't get a probe in the zerg base past like 3-4mins.


----------



## 13321G4

Hmm, immortal before obs works very nicely in PvZ... thanks!



I thought my PvP was much better than that, thought PvT would be worse but I don't play a lot of terrans, but DAMN I need to work on my PvZ! I new it was bad, but dayum.

Going to try and play a solid game and then post my replay here for you theorycrafters.

Woops, appears that that is a mixture of old and new games...



Still the same truth holds.


----------



## sepheroth003

What is that program, I've seen it a few times now, looks interesting.

I've been trying to get a good replay as well, but haven't played any good games lately lol


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> What is that program, I've seen it a few times now, looks interesting.
> 
> I've been trying to get a good replay as well, but haven't played any good games lately lol


SC2 Gears


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Okay done, I think i'll add this to the OP, and i'll also add to it how to install the Korean/Taiwan client. Warning: lotsa pics...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: How to create a Taiwan Starcraft 2 account and play on Korean/Taiwan region
> 
> 
> 
> The main difference between the Korean and Taiwan version is the language, but the regions are linked so you'll face people on both regions. I've done this multiple times with no problems:
> 1. Go to Offgamers.com and go to my account, click on register now and fill everything out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Go to http://www.offgamers.com/starcraft/starcraft-ii-tw-hk/starcraft-ii-cd-key-c-4183-6056-6057.ogm and click on add to cart, then checkout and pay, it cost me roughly $43 USD/CAD using Paypal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Go to your offgamer account, click on completed order history, click on your order then on "show", it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes for your order to show up if you payed with an instant payment option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Go to the Battle.net site, login or create a new account depending on if you want a separate account for your Taiwan/Korean SC2, click on buy digital games, change the region to Taiwan (on the right) and then click on continue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Go to Balance and click on Load Balance, enter the numerical only code you see when you click on "show" in your offgamer account into the box, submit (if submit is greyed, left click outside the text box) you should now have 1150 points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Click on Buy Digital games, Buy now under Starcraft 2, *choose the unlimited game time option* and then just continue and accept the terms and conditions and complete the order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're done, now you can download the Taiwan/Korean version of Starcraft 2.
> 
> 
> hope it's clear enough... it's basically just an updated version of other guides on places like TL, with a few pics thrown in.


Thanks Calm, looks good to me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Nice job.
> and after a terrible night on Korea I've decided to all in Protoss 100% of the time. The more I can avoid the late game the better. I'm seriously done with the amount of skill required to win late game TvP, TvZ and TvT late game are a breeze in comparison.


You're going to have to share your all-ins vs toss. I got slammed by one yesterday and I thought we should have been even the whole game. Edit: Here is my rep.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> What is that program, I've seen it a few times now, looks interesting.
> I've been trying to get a good replay as well, but haven't played any good games lately lol


Definitely get it. You can edit the settings so it starts with sc2, will automatically save every replay as a file with the matchup and names of players in it, and place them in a separate folder by season.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Definitely get it. You can edit the settings so it starts with sc2, will automatically save every replay as a file with the matchup and names of players in it, and place them in a separate folder by season.


Sounds awesome, Ill grab it, thanks


----------



## HarrisLam

meh, would have gotten it just to see how i do if only i didnt quit 1v1


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> What kind of all-ins? 3 Rax? Something else? curious what your win rate vs P would become...


3 rax ghost all ins, marine scv all ins, 1-1-1 all ins, and anything else I can find / think of. Whatever works best I will continue. If I can avoid the late game all together I will have no reason to want to throw something







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quiter!!!! Lol


----------



## avaya

If any mid masters terran want to work on tvp let me know. I'm mid masters and have practiced the match up quite a bit.

1 base all-ins are easy to stop. It's better to always stay a base up with a marauder focused army. If you are fighting 3 base vs 3 base, protoss will win. The sooner you realize and get over that fact, the better (and watch pro/GSL matches with this mindset, you will realize they all know it as well).


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> If any mid masters terran want to work on tvp let me know. I'm mid masters and have practiced the match up quite a bit.
> 1 base all-ins are easy to stop. It's better to always stay a base up with a marauder focused army. If you are fighting 3 base vs 3 base, protoss will win. The sooner you realize and get over that fact, the better (and watch pro/GSL matches with this mindset, you will realize they all know it as well).


I do watch SC2. Squirtle knocked out MKP in IPL, arguably the best TvPer right now. In the GSL Parting and Oz eliminated Polt and Fin and MMA lost to Squirtle, even though his TvP isnt that good. What am I supposed to get from watching GSL now?


----------



## DoomDash

I think I figured out my TvP all in strat. Let me tell you my luck today though. Basically all I'm doing is my old thor marine scv repair 1 base play that I used to do back when 250mm cannons were cool down. The one I wrote a guide for, but since the cannons suck now I just do the same thing except with out the cannons.

Anyway, on to that bad luck. My old build and most thor build timings have always said to be countered by DT openers. This is what tastetosis always said, and it is because money is so tight and it delays any timing to the push. I have not been dark templar rushed in probably 1 month, that includes Korea and NA. The very first game I do this build I get dark templar rush and lose. I gave away no indication of my build, but I did have a wall off. It looked more like a 1-1-1 IMO. Second game, different guy, I did the same thing since I figured that last game was a blind counter luck. DT rush, lose. Wow, I'm pretty pissed at this point. 3rd game, again different guy, this time I fake an expansion with 2 bunkers at my nats cliff. No tech is revealed. So he should be assuming I have at least 2 orbitals that could have energy, and I have a block at my ramp just incase I need it..... DT rush. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? 3x in a row? I'm in disbelief. 4th game, I do the same thing as a last game, 2 bunks at my nat, no tech revealed, he should think I expoed. The only difference this time is I make an ebay and get a turret up. Guess what? DT RUSH!!!?!!?!!?!! W T F!!!! Anyway that time I held it due to the turret. From that point I saved scans and quickly got a raven out, pushed, and won. Still was mad, and I don't even understand those odds.

I also won a few more later, now with the ebay in the build since apparently people will blind counter thor builds all day.


----------



## ntherblast

Where do you guys upload replays?


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Where do you guys upload replays?


drop.sc


----------



## DoomDash

This is the all in I've been doing to toss on korea with pretty high success rates.



Though the last few games they nexus first so I built a bunker behind the nexus while it was warping..... its funny how most protoss players never feel they have to mimic Zergs actions sometimes like scouting. Lots of free wins with reapers in those bunkers








.


----------



## poroboszcz

Why don't you just learn standard play instead of relying on gimmicky strats? This opening is not safe and thor push should be crushed by a 1 gate expo by any protoss that knows what he's doing. The only reason this game was close is because your opponent didn't back off after seeing no expo and engaged in pretty terrible position on the ramp.


----------



## Sainesk

Has there been any good Funday Mondays lately? haven't been keeping up with Day9 lately though I could certainly use it. Love me some Hydralisk and worker or Mothership and invisible worker all ins and such...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Why don't you just learn standard play instead of relying on gimmicky strats? This opening is not safe and thor push should be crushed by a 1 gate expo by any protoss that knows what he's doing. The only reason this game was close is because your opponent didn't back off after seeing no expo and engaged in pretty terrible position on the ramp.


we've covered this ground. lol

he thinks your op


----------



## thenailedone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Has there been any good Funday Mondays lately? haven't been keeping up with Day9 lately though I could certainly use it. Love me some Hydralisk and worker or Mothership and invisible worker all ins and such...


Well the last one was to use Spine Crawlers as your main offensive weapon to attack your opponents base... some pretty funny games and if I recall Day[9] was also very funny as always









Nailed


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> This is the all in I've been doing to toss on korea with pretty high success rates.
> 
> Though the last few games they nexus first so I built a bunker behind the nexus while it was warping..... its funny how most protoss players never feel they have to mimic Zergs actions sometimes like scouting. Lots of free wins with reapers in those bunkers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I think you got lucky he was doing a FE into 4gate (with likely intention to take a 3rd shortly after) instead of 3gate robo or an 8 gate all-in. If he did a standard robo build would have been much more difficult. You guys look pretty high level. I'm only around rank 15 masters on NA (primarily as protoss).


----------



## Mwarren

Standard wont get you far as terran right now. Terran's strongest in the early to mid game and Doom is playing smart by capitalizing on the fact that Terran has many 1 base build's and can easily deny scouting with wall ins. TvP i've been going with a 1 base 3 rax combat shields +1 timing attack into expansion. From what I've learned so far this build will either straight up kill your opponent if hes trying to tech too hard, or it will do significant damage and keep the game low econ and low tech.

TvZ I'm thinking about going for a proxy rax or ebay to deny hatch first into a 1 base hellion/tank contain as I expand behind it.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Standard wont get you far as terran right now. Terran's strongest in the early to mid game and Doom is playing smart by capitalizing on the fact that Terran has many 1 base build's and can easily deny scouting with wall ins. TvP i've been going with a 1 base 3 rax combat shields +1 timing attack into expansion. From what I've learned so far this build will either straight up kill your opponent if hes trying to tech too hard, or it will do significant damage and keep the game low econ and low tech.
> TvZ I'm thinking about going for a proxy rax or ebay to deny hatch first into a 1 base hellion/tank contain as I expand behind it.


I'm just a Plat Zerg, but I don't understand why more terrans don't ebay block. It's SO annoying, and denies at least 1 minute of that hatch going down. Especially since most Zergs will try to go hatch first and only throw down the spawning pool after they see the ebay.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I think you got lucky he was doing a FE into 4gate (with likely intention to take a 3rd shortly after) instead of 3gate robo or an 8 gate all-in. If he did a standard robo build would have been much more difficult. You guys look pretty high level. I'm only around rank 15 masters on NA (primarily as protoss).


I agree its MUCH harder, but generally if its only 1-2 immortals I can still deal with it. I've beat quite a lot of immortal guys too, though its much much closer.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Why don't you just learn standard play instead of relying on gimmicky strats? This opening is not safe and thor push should be crushed by a 1 gate expo by any protoss that knows what he's doing. The only reason this game was close is because your opponent didn't back off after seeing no expo and engaged in pretty terrible position on the ramp.


I've tried the standard game enough to know that if I don't win by that mid-game the chances of me winning are almost non-existent. I do believe if I could double my APM I could win the match up but that would be very difficult and rather than doing that ( which I may not even be able to do ), I will just abuse strong timings and terrans advantages. I will occasionally play standard, or when a reaper opener doesn't kill of a nexus first build I will transition into a normal game ect. Not even the pros can win the late game vs Protoss according to stats, and they have the APM required to do it in theory. Even if Terran does get an advantage at the mid-game the late-game Protoss army can still easily come back once that magic death ball of the right units is out ( zealotstalkertemplarcolossusarchon ). It's quite honestly ridiculous *IMO*. Isn't playing to win my real goal? I think so, and that's what I plan on doing.

I think Terran is a race that is the worst when playing entirely predictable, this build is not that predictable, and I do my best to hide any evidence of what I'm doing!!

Also I've beat 1gate FE's too, or protoss armies that did not lose an army badly at the ramp. I still need MORE time to give my final thoughts on it but so far so good.

+1 Armor helps vs Zealots quite a lot , so that's a key to the build since Zealots are such high DPS.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> ( zealotstalkertemplarcolossusarchon ). It's quite honestly ridiculous *IMO*


Ya its so "ridiculous" that Protoss have to tech 2 of their 3 trees to beat Terran late game after having the disadvantage early/mid games...

Again I am only gold, but seriously thats a lot of tech buildings we have to do just to get that magic ball as you call it. The only thing were missing is the starport/fusion core.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> ( zealotstalkertemplarcolossusarchon ). It's quite honestly ridiculous *IMO*
> 
> 
> 
> Ya its so "ridiculous" that Protoss have to tech 2 of their 3 trees to beat Terran late game after having the disadvantage early/mid games...
> 
> Again I am only gold, but seriously thats a lot of tech buildings we have to do just to get that magic ball as you call it. The only thing were missing is the starport/fusion core.
Click to expand...

Lol it's quite true.

It would be like going marine, marauder, medivac, thor, hellion, seige tank to counter stalker, zealot and sentries.


----------



## poroboszcz

Do you think MVP gets 90% winrate by doing all-ins every game? No, he plays standard most of the time. How about Flash? How often do you see him cheesing? aLive didn't win IPL with all-ins either. In fact you could play this guys with a maphack and you'd still loose. The premise that a good strategy has to rely on surprise is false. On higher levels your opponents will usually know what you're up to anyway. Relying on all-in's is a gamble. It may get you wins but playing standard is the only way to get a consistent win rate in a matchup IMO. If strategies that work at code S level don't work for you at masters level than it's not the fault of the strategy.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Do you think MVP gets 90% winrate by doing all-ins every game? No, he plays standard most of the time. How about Flash? How often do you see him cheesing? aLive didn't win IPL with all-ins either. In fact you could play this guys with a maphack and you'd still loose. The premise that a good strategy has to rely on surprise is false. On higher levels your opponents will usually know what you're up to anyway. Relying on all-in's is a gamble. It may get you wins but playing standard is the only way to get a consistent win rate in a matchup IMO. If strategies that work at code S level don't work for you at masters level than it's not the fault of the strategy.


Not sure who you're talking to but this is right. Look where BitByBit is today, not even in Code A. Whereas NesTea, MVP, Genius, aLive, DRG, MMA and Puzzle (list goes on) are really good at macro and standard play and are some of the best in the world. A few anomalies are people like MC who loves 2 base pushes, but does really well and Idra, who loves macro and standard play but doesnt do so well.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think Terran is a race that is the worst when playing entirely predictable, this build is not that predictable, and I do my best to hide any evidence of what I'm doing!!


I agree totally. Cause if i play with some of my friends who are masters terrans a few games, and they play the same predictable standard i can beat them multiple times in a row with decent play on my end, and i struggle in plat league now days..

Im just to lazy to scout and scout, but when a terran is predictable that removes that element, and i just focus on my play and what im gonna do to counter what i know he is gonna do anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Do you think MVP gets 90% winrate by doing all-ins every game? No, he plays standard most of the time. How about Flash? How often do you see him cheesing? aLive didn't win IPL with all-ins either. In fact you could play this guys with a maphack and you'd still loose. The premise that a good strategy has to rely on surprise is false. On higher levels your opponents will usually know what you're up to anyway. Relying on all-in's is a gamble. It may get you wins but playing standard is the only way to get a consistent win rate in a matchup IMO. If strategies that work at code S level don't work for you at masters level than it's not the fault of the strategy.


No, but because of his ( MVP's ) standard play he pretty much dropped off the radar, esp due to TvP. The stuff just doesn't work anymore, at least not that effectively. Koreans make it a point to play around the mid-game and the more you watch the more you will see it's not just me trying to avoid it, its the Koreans as well. Sure they don't always 1 base but they do lots of 1-2 base all ins because like me, they know when they have the best shot at winning. It's not even about playing standard, its about playing to your strengths. I play standard in TvT and TvZ, because in those match ups even at my level the match ups are very very closely balanced, even in terms of skill. Jinro had the same thing happen to him, his standard trying to macro TvP pretty much became his undoing.

Also I want you to know a large majority of players including Flash started off as cheesers and eventually became better and better over time, I see no reason why me doing an all in, in one match up will be any different. As I said I'm not against playing standard if I think it will get me a win or an advantage, or its a transition. Right now I just don't feel like playing standard as Terran vs Protoss is logical.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, but because of his ( MVP's ) standard play he pretty much dropped off the radar, esp due to TvP. The stuff just doesn't work anymore, at least not that effectively. Koreans make it a point to play around the mid-game and the more you watch the more you will see it's not just me trying to avoid it, its the Koreans as well. Sure they don't always 1 base but they do lots of 1-2 base all ins because like me, they know when they have the best shot at winning. It's not even about playing standard, its about playing to your strengths. I play standard in TvT and TvZ, because in those match ups even at my level the match ups are very very closely balanced, even in terms of skill. Jinro had the same thing happen to him, his standard trying to macro TvP pretty much became his undoing.
> Also I want you to know a large majority of players including Flash started off as cheesers and eventually became better and better over time, I see no reason why me doing an all in, in one match up will be any different. As I said I'm not against playing standard if I think it will get me a win or an advantage, or its a transition. Right now I just don't feel like playing standard as Terran vs Protoss is logical.


My eyes have been opened.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My eyes have been opened.


Not sure if serious.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My eyes have been opened.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if serious.
Click to expand...

He obviously is serious.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Not sure if serious.


if he said he needs to change his pants then _MAYBE_ he's joking

so yea..... I think he serious.....


----------



## Anti!!

XD

Our game play is to limited by people thinking its a rule that we must play for the macro game. These koreans have it licked. Win or lose. No matter how much i wanna act like im a good sport i wanna win. I also dont have the time to practice. So forget playing "fair"


----------



## Alex132

MC is streaming~

http://www.own3d.tv/live/152811/SK_MC


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> XD
> Our game play is to limited by people thinking its a rule that we must play for the macro game. These koreans have it licked. Win or lose. No matter how much i wanna act like im a good sport i wanna win. I also dont have the time to practice. So forget playing "fair"


Naniwa has the right mindset; pure results. Obviously its fun to watch players get into a macro game with tons of multitasking and high tech units. When it comes down to it though, if you just want to win, then use a build that directly counters what your opponent does. "cheese" is just a word the lazy use for not scouting correctly.

Played a zerg the other day who took 2 expos at basically the same time when I went 1 rax fe. He didnt take a gas so I just kept rallying hellions to his base and he told me to go back to playing monobattles...


----------



## Anti!!

It can be frustrating being the guy losing but i agree totally. Counter and win.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, but because of his ( MVP's ) standard play he pretty much dropped off the radar, esp due to TvP. The stuff just doesn't work anymore, at least not that effectively. Koreans make it a point to play around the mid-game and the more you watch the more you will see it's not just me trying to avoid it, its the Koreans as well. Sure they don't always 1 base but they do lots of 1-2 base all ins because like me, they know when they have the best shot at winning. It's not even about playing standard, its about playing to your strengths. I play standard in TvT and TvZ, because in those match ups even at my level the match ups are very very closely balanced, even in terms of skill. Jinro had the same thing happen to him, his standard trying to macro TvP pretty much became his undoing.
> Also I want you to know a large majority of players including Flash started off as cheesers and eventually became better and better over time, I see no reason why me doing an all in, in one match up will be any different. As I said I'm not against playing standard if I think it will get me a win or an advantage, or its a transition. Right now I just don't feel like playing standard as Terran vs Protoss is logical.


Fair enough, but I don't think it will fix your TvP problems. As your other matchups will get better and better your TvP will always hold you back if you only rely on 1 base all-ins. Just my opinion.

Aslo MVP dropping off the radar? Sick win rate on EU and NA ladders, another code S spot, 68% tournament win rate in TvP - doesn't look that bad imo. Also MKP, MMA and aLive all have over 70% win rate in TvP and I more often see them going for a standard play than doing 1 base all-in's, let alone thor rushes which I haven't seen since like season 2.


----------



## Pwntastic

Scouting is the key to countering and countering is the key to winning. Long games usually develop when both players are making the right units and know how to micro and macro manage. I don't think professionals play longer games just to make for a better show.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Naniwa has the right mindset; pure results. Obviously its fun to watch players get into a macro game with tons of multitasking and high tech units. When it comes down to it though, if you just want to win, then use a build that directly counters what your opponent does. "cheese" is just a word the lazy use for not scouting correctly.
> Played a zerg the other day who took 2 expos at basically the same time when I went 1 rax fe. He didnt take a gas so I just kept rallying hellions to his base and he told me to go back to playing monobattles...


All pros have this mindset. They make a liveing out of winning games. The thing is though that there is no counter to standard play and that's why it's a standard. There are "counters" to DT rush, roach bust or 1/1/1, but there aren't any to 1 rax expand into 3 rax factory stargate or 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo and reactive play.


----------



## Pwntastic

Anyone else want to see more of MarineKing?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Fair enough, but I don't think it will fix your TvP problems. As your other matchups will get better and better your TvP will always hold you back if you only rely on 1 base all-ins. Just my opinion.
> Aslo MVP dropping off the radar? Sick win rate on EU and NA ladders, another code S spot, 68% tournament win rate in TvP - doesn't look that bad imo. Also MKP, MMA and aLive all have over 70% win rate in TvP and I more often see them going for a standard play than doing 1 base all-in's, let alone thor rushes which I haven't seen since like season 2.


But again I'm not talking about pro level. If I had 300 APM I could play Terran standard and make it work, which is what they are able to do sometimes. I'm also not saying I will only do all ins.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> All pros have this mindset. They make a liveing out of winning games. The thing is though that there is no counter to standard play and that's why it's a standard. There are "counters" to DT rush, roach bust or 1/1/1, but there aren't any to 1 rax expand into 3 rax factory stargate or 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo and reactive play.


Obviously pros are results oriented because better results equal better paychecks. I guess I'm just surprised that there arent more players like Naniwa or Heart.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> But again I'm not talking about pro level. If I had 300 APM I could play Terran standard and make it work, which is what they are able to do sometimes. I'm also not saying I will only do all ins.


Have you tried this opener? Lastshadow 6-rax opener


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Obviously pros are results oriented because better results equal better paychecks. I guess I'm just surprised that there arent more players like Naniwa or Heart.
> Have you tried this opener? Lastshadow 6-rax opener


Yep, and 12-14 rax openers vs Toss, which aren't bad early but make you get really slow tech for an ok mid-game at best.


----------



## Alex132

6 rax is so overrated, I use TLO's version a lot for fun and it can easily be stopped with bunkers


----------



## l337sft

I'm so out of the loop, ive barely played at all for the past 2 seasons, are all the old strats still legit? Or has the metagame changed completely?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l337sft*
> 
> I'm so out of the loop, ive barely played at all for the past 2 seasons, are all the old strats still legit? Or has the metagame changed completely?


3 gate expand is still good


----------



## mylilpony

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/north_south_korea kind of funny


----------



## MartynRE

Me and my friends are silver on a 3v3 team but we kept getting placed in games against platinum and more recently, diamond. We win most of them, but how come we are being consistently placed against people so much higher than us? (Or why are we ranked so low







)


----------



## Benladesh

I've hit a wall. I'm mid gold and I just keep losing and then winning and losing but I'm not moving in any direction. My macro is bad, my micro is bad, I feel completely hopeless when I play. Gold should not be this hard :/ Any Protoss players out there want to share some knowledge or something? I'm lost as to what to do. The person who was teaching me said i should quit because I was just that bad...

The person teaching me is a high masters protoss and everything just makes sense for him. Every game he says I lose for a different reason. It's hard to stay on top of all the stuff...

"you timing was 10 seconds too late"
"Got the tower too late"
"Guardian shield"
"A force field here"
"All you need to worry about is his 3rd base timing..(later)..well he never got a second base"
"You engagement was sloppy"

And it goes on and on. I feel like im doing everything wrong.


----------



## DoomDash

Generally the biggest problems in lower leagues is spending your money in a timely fashion, building lots and lots of probes, and when to expand / add gateways. I think as long as you practice those fundamentals the timings and a bunch of other things are rather unimportant until a certain point. A good macro player with no sense of real strategies can probably make it to Diamond.

I had them add this to the OP, and to me this is by far the best and most important Day9 video. He even plays toss in it, so its a good watch.

http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-132-back-to-the-basics-the-mental-checklist-3751430


----------



## Benladesh

I've seen that Day9. I dono, I get really frustrated. i was practicing my PVT with my friend today and I had about twice his army (cost wise and the unit composition was in my favor) and he was like "Ok, you're gonna roll me" and he came out on top. My micro is suffering a great deal. I engage a fight and before i know, its over. I don't see it happen. It's like it happens to quickly and my brain freezes, I just stare at the screen trying to understand what to do.

I've been playing for about 6-7 months, I watch a lot of pro videos and youtube videos. I understand what's good against what, I have a build order lined up for matchups (and my buddy says the order (and execution) itself is perfect, tons of probes, quick units .etc). I just can't react to stuff. I get dropped, I lose. Zerg goes Muta, I lose.


----------



## DoomDash

I've always been masters league so I'll let the guys who started at a lower level and ended up at a much higher level chime in. Years of BW helped me.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> *I've seen that Day9*. I dono, I get really frustrated. *i was practicing my PVT with him today* and I had about twice his army (cost wise and the unit composition was in my favor) and he was like "Ok, you're gonna roll me" and he came out on top. My micro is suffering a great deal. I engage a fight and before i know, its over. I don't see it happen. It's like it happens to quickly and my brain freezes, I just stare at the screen trying to understand what to do.
> I've been playing for about 6-7 months, I watch a lot of pro videos and youtube videos. I understand what's good against what, I have a build order lined up for matchups (and my buddy says the order (and execution) itself is perfect, tons of probes, quick units .etc). I just can't react to stuff. I get dropped, I lose. Zerg goes Muta, I lose.


did you just say you practiced PvT with Day9?


----------



## Benladesh

I wish. Sorry, I was continuing my thought from my previous post. i fixed it


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I've seen that Day9. I dono, I get really frustrated. i was practicing my PVT with my friend today and I had about twice his army (cost wise and the unit composition was in my favor) and he was like "Ok, you're gonna roll me" and he came out on top. My micro is suffering a great deal. I engage a fight and before i know, its over. I don't see it happen. It's like it happens to quickly and my brain freezes, I just stare at the screen trying to understand what to do.
> I've been playing for about 6-7 months, I watch a lot of pro videos and youtube videos. I understand what's good against what, I have a build order lined up for matchups (and my buddy says the order (and execution) itself is perfect, tons of probes, quick units .etc). I just can't react to stuff. I get dropped, I lose. Zerg goes Muta, I lose.


Here's an advise: don't micro. Stop even looking at the battle. Try to make sure you have an ok position with zealots in front followed by immortals, sentries, stalkers and colossi. Hit the quardian shield button as soon as the battle happens and go do something else. Chronoboost your tech, warp-in units, add buildings, sent a bunch of zealots from proxy pylon to one of his expansions... Then look back at the battle to see how it's going. In PvT especially position is often more important than micro and macro is the key to win games below masters.

To have a good macro you need a basic plan for the game so you know what is the next thing you're going to do. Read a guide on each matchup or watch a day 9 daily and just try to stick with one build. If you lose try to adjust it so you don't lose to the same thing again. The popular standard builds for protoss at the moment are: vs Z - FFE into 4 gate pressure and tech (look for heroic FFE or Naniwa 2 base colossi timing), vs T 1 gate expand into 3 gate robo into tech (colossi or double forge, look for CreatorPrime PvT and MC's 1 gate FE), PvP - 3 gate pressure or 1 gate tech into random midgame into mass colossi (don't care much about this matchup, it's ******ed).


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I've seen that Day9. I dono, I get really frustrated. i was practicing my PVT with my friend today and I had about twice his army (cost wise and the unit composition was in my favor) and he was like "Ok, you're gonna roll me" and he came out on top. My micro is suffering a great deal. I engage a fight and before i know, its over. I don't see it happen. It's like it happens to quickly and my brain freezes, I just stare at the screen trying to understand what to do.
> I've been playing for about 6-7 months, I watch a lot of pro videos and youtube videos. I understand what's good against what, I have a build order lined up for matchups (and my buddy says the order (and execution) itself is perfect, tons of probes, quick units .etc). I just can't react to stuff. I get dropped, I lose. Zerg goes Muta, I lose.


What league are you? From my experience, any league under Diamond can be won with solid macro. If you are having trouble with you micro and multitasking, Protoss have the luxury of automated defense. I wouldnt be scared to drop cannons behind your mineral line. Also, its almost guaranteed that Terran will drop one of your bases while engaging your main army. If you have cannons already there, leaving 2 zealots behind will help a lot too.

Also, a large part of getting better multitasking/micro is higher apm, which is largely just muscle memory. The more you play, the more natural it will be for you to hit a string of hotkeys to defend drops/warp in zealots at main/etc just because you have done it so many times before. More GG = More skill.


----------



## avaya

I've had luck at rank ~15 masters tvp by going macro mode (staying +1 base) with marine/hellion/banshee. The concept is:

1rax fast expand into 3x rax making mostly marines.
Take fast 4 gas and tech to double starports with tech bays, usually 3x bunkers at expo
Get blue flame and reactor factory
Harass/scout with hellion and banshee at 9 to 11 minutes.

If protoss goes:
*stalker heavy army with observer*: This means bunkers and planetary fortress will be very strong. Take a 3rd and even 4th while slowly transitioning into MMM.
*Fast 3rd, cannons, templar tech* This is most common response but I have found it the easiest to win against. Keep banshee's cloaked most of the time (feedback useless) and spread out (storm useless) with taking a 3rd and 4th. He will eventually have to dump minerals into mass zealots so make lots of hellions. Composition of MMM or more air or siege tank doesn't matter, just win with very greedy macro in 10 to 15 minute time-frame.
*Starport tech* Cut banshee production, and switch to standard MMM. Don't be aggressive with macro and go for a big MMM push with about 6 medivac's and standard marine/marauder composition. It should hit before he has splash damage.


----------



## DoomDash

http://kotaku.com/5902683/gamers-watch-over-3-billion-minutes-of-competitive-gaming-per-month

TwitchTV + MLG signed a deal with CBS







.


----------



## Anti!!

I cant wait for the day when i can watch sc2 on my tv like football. Without the hassle of managing the steam and long waits between games.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://kotaku.com/5902683/gamers-watch-over-3-billion-minutes-of-competitive-gaming-per-month
> TwitchTV + MLG signed a deal with CBS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I cant wait for the day when i can watch sc2 on my tv like football. Without the hassle of managing the steam and long waits between games.


The deal is with CBSi (i = interactive). CBSi owns Cnet and Gamespot, among other internet IP's. Basically going to up the quality of streaming services. Article. This would be the same company that ran the online streaming services for March Madness. I'm not sure if anyone else watched it online, but the quality was excellent. Can't wait to see the fruits of this deal.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> The deal is with CBSi (i = interactive). CBSi owns Cnet and Gamespot, among other internet IP's. Basically going to up the quality of streaming services. Article. This would be the same company that ran the online streaming services for March Madness. I'm not sure if anyone else watched it online, but the quality was excellent. Can't wait to see the fruits of this deal.


Shhhweeett. If it handled march madness it will handle sc2 just fine.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone watching IPL's tournament on all the old maps? Pretty entertaining.

http://www.justin.tv/ignproleague/


----------



## LickTheEnvelope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I've hit a wall. I'm mid gold and I just keep losing and then winning and losing but I'm not moving in any direction. My macro is bad, my micro is bad, I feel completely hopeless when I play. Gold should not be this hard :/ Any Protoss players out there want to share some knowledge or something? I'm lost as to what to do. The person who was teaching me said i should quit because I was just that bad...
> The person teaching me is a high masters protoss and everything just makes sense for him. Every game he says I lose for a different reason. It's hard to stay on top of all the stuff...
> "you timing was 10 seconds too late"
> "Got the tower too late"
> "Guardian shield"
> "A force field here"
> "All you need to worry about is his 3rd base timing..(later)..well he never got a second base"
> "You engagement was sloppy"
> And it goes on and on. I feel like im doing everything wrong.


I was gold for 3 seasons before FINALLY getting moved to Platinum at the start of this season, 7 and am Protoss only for the last 2 seasons.

Depends on what your problems are. Generally any Platinum or lower Zerg player I will beat 80% of the time now... Toss about 60%... freakin' Terran is where I have serious issues. I won my last 2 against Terran but I swear I must have been on a 15 game losing streak against that race.

Just remember you can never do everything "right." Even the masters and grand-masters players I watch (EVEN KOREANS!) often make mistakes. Macro is most important. If you can get to 4 base/5 base on Toss it's very hard to lose...

Unless it's Terran


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> The deal is with CBSi (i = interactive). CBSi owns Cnet and Gamespot, among other internet IP's. Basically going to up the quality of streaming services. Article. This would be the same company that ran the online streaming services for March Madness. I'm not sure if anyone else watched it online, but the quality was excellent. Can't wait to see the fruits of this deal.


hopefully husky will get a fulltime job there as a pro-game caster

while day9 will host a tutor show every evening or something









Destiny and combatEX will co-host a late night show on how to achieve maximum in-game BMing

At the end of every night, right after the destiny / combatEX show, Idra talks about racial problems in the game


----------



## Anti!!

i gagged at the thought of having to see more of destiny. Dudes a douche. Nerdy douche. Its hilarious hearing someone talk like that, but at the same time be such a v*gina.


----------



## Alex132

He is funny, and that's a nice change from the too often robotic-responses from many Koreans. But there is no way anyone could be better than the casting archon; Tasteless and Artosis


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Idra talks about racial problems in the game


that would be for the win, I need someone to reassure me Brood Lords should have Corruptor's air to air attack shooting at the same time as their ground attack like a goliath. Also, they should get shields, then they'll be almost as useful as carriers...









Playing R today I got 1 match where I wasn't T out of 8







I won all cept a 4 gate where I messed up sniping the probe placing a pylon outside my base







(had a Thor with 78 kills in 1 of the matches lols







)


----------



## Alex132

Who here has ever done an offensive GG in 1v1







? (ie GG'ing before the game has ended because you assume you have won after, during, before an engagement or something)

I did it the other day, my opponent raged hard for some reason. Heck It was 7 base to 3 and I could warp in 28 stalkers at once if my army did die <3

PvT is fun. PvZ sucks.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> i gagged at the thought of having to see more of destiny. Dudes a douche. Nerdy douche. Its hilarious hearing someone talk like that, but at the same time be such a v*gina.


Destiny is my favorite youtube channel, I am a toss player but he's entertaining
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Who here has ever done an offensive GG in 1v1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? (ie GG'ing before the game has ended because you assume you have won after, during, before an engagement or something)
> 
> I did it the other day, my opponent raged hard for some reason. Heck It was 7 base to 3 and I could warp in 28 stalkers at once if my army did die <3
> 
> PvT is fun. PvZ sucks.


Several times in PvP when i'm warping zealots into the min line from 4 gates when my opponent is on 1 gate with 3 more warping in and only has 1 stalker.

Yesterday I was playing 2v2 and my ally offensively GG'd and our opponent flew his CC and was telling us how BM that was


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> He is funny, and that's a nice change from the too often robotic-responses from many Koreans. But there is no way anyone could be better than the casting archon; Tasteless and Artosis


I've watch their casts quite a few times before, they are up there with husky too. I just prefer husky after watching so many videos because of his lightning fast response, and that response almost never fails to get transferred down to the mouth.

That is not to say that he doesn't miss a thing on the map, not at all, but if he does spot something, he can instantly convert the situation into words, very good reflexes.

I still smile everytime I think about that video I watched about him dual-casting with Day9. When husky was speaking so fast describing the battle that's about to happen, Day9's on the side being all "uhh.......uh oh.......UH OH......HERE THEY COME......"








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> i gagged at the thought of having to see more of destiny. *Dudes a douche*. Nerdy douche. Its hilarious hearing someone talk like that, but at the same time be such a v*gina.


correct, but does not change the fact that he *could be* entertaining (I watch his streams starting like a month ago, watched it a few times, he pretty much played silently now, then I lost interest).

He has also improved quite a bit with his play, he was a regular master league dude, nothing more. Now he seems to be able to beat some pro koreans occasionally?

If you pay attention you will see that I fit all these guys into shows that are designed for them. Raise your hand if you agree


----------



## DoomDash

I don't like Destiny, but he does have his moments.

Also. GSL:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



NANIWAAAA!!!!


----------



## Anti!!

Ill give you that. He is entertaining.

I think Day9 and djwheat are the best suited. I just dont like artosis and tastless. Couple of know it alls in my book. Just an opinion only. lol No flaming please.

I also like husky and mrbitter together

I also hate offensive GGs. Im already losing and am pissed. Dont need it rubbed in but sometimes i do it offensively because im afraid my opponent and rage before i can tell him gg. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Remember when I beat Artosis ? Yeah I do.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Who here has ever done an offensive GG in 1v1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? (ie GG'ing before the game has ended because you assume you have won after, during, before an engagement or something)
> 
> I did it the other day, my opponent raged hard for some reason. Heck It was 7 base to 3 and I could warp in 28 stalkers at once if my army did die <3
> 
> PvT is fun. PvZ sucks.


Its pretty BM to offensively GG, not that it should stop you if your so inclined, I always love it when someone offensively GGs thinking they have me beat and then you crush his army with better positioning and upgrades etc and watch the QQ that follows.

I have somewhere a replay of someone doing this back when i was like bronze league guy pushes up crushes my "nat" (this is actually my 4th or 5th or something) with 200 supply more or less only marines, Hits his GG and then says he easily face rolled me, only to push up into my "main" which isnt there, at which point sooooo many banelings come down and destroy his whole army from my actual main. At which point he gets really abusive I cant imagine why


----------



## CravinR1

Here is a platinum toss who canon rushed me when I was gold and he GG'd me a few times and then said I was BM for not leaving when I lost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_0wdC6sJE

And here is the stream from a bronze silver tournament I played where I was drunk and GG'd and BM'd the entire time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4sYlMHr_Lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWqGVGZHp28

If you watch just one check out the last one. I was intoxicated and BM'd the entire last 2 minutes


----------



## HarrisLam

i never talk in the game except a "you too" when my opponent "gl hf"

i.e. I never say GG

remember that one game (that I posted the replay here) TvP, we battled it out for like 30 mins, taking turns having army advantages, but he slowly took over with archons immortals in the army.

I quited the game, and this guy actually has to whisper me after game saying "easy"

Now I gotta talk to this guy. Turns out he got mad cuz I didn't say GG, and I talked him into saying sorry


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Who here has ever done an offensive GG in 1v1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? (ie GG'ing before the game has ended because you assume you have won after, during, before an engagement or something)
> 
> I did it the other day, my opponent raged hard for some reason. Heck It was 7 base to 3 and I could warp in 28 stalkers at once if my army did die <3
> 
> PvT is fun. PvZ sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> Its pretty BM to offensively GG, not that it should stop you if your so inclined, I always love it when someone offensively GGs thinking they have me beat and then you crush his army with better positioning and upgrades etc and watch the QQ that follows.
Click to expand...

I know, but I would just do it if the other guy is being pretty annoying in his gameplay or arrogant in a way. I did it because he said my macro was crap, (had like twice as many bases / etc) But in a league game I normally just leave if I dont GG, thats about as bm as I get








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> I have somewhere a replay of someone doing this back when i was like bronze league guy pushes up crushes my "nat" (this is actually my 4th or 5th or something) with 200 supply more or less only marines, Hits his GG and then says he easily face rolled me, only to push up into my "main" which isnt there, at which point sooooo many banelings come down and destroy his whole army from my actual main. At which point he gets really abusive I cant imagine why


Haha, epic


----------



## Costfree

what does BM stand for?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costfree*
> 
> what does BM stand for?


BAD MANNERSS DUHHHH!!!!

HAHA


----------



## Alex132

Bad mannered


----------



## DoomDash

I don't GG protoss 70% of the time, but I almost always say gl hf. If some rare cases I will lose it and say things like gg, get the frick out first







.


----------



## HometownHero

I always glhf at the beginning of a game. If someone trash talks me during the game and I win, I try to make him feel as terrible as possible about bming me when he lost. Usually continues to chat out of game until they block me. Enough people have ladder anxiety as it is so I like to think I'm doing the world a favor.


----------



## poroboszcz

I always open by writing EZ with pylons in the middle of the map before my first gateway. If I lose I say imba, spam some nexuses around the map and go afk. I'm thinking about switching to terran so I can float my buildings in the corners.


----------



## Costfree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I always open by writing EZ with pylons in the middle of the map before my first gateway. If I lose I say imba, spam some nexuses around the map and go afk. I'm thinking about switching to terran so I can float my buildings in the corners.


LOL!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I always open by writing EZ with pylons in the middle of the map before my first gateway. If I lose I say imba, spam some nexuses around the map and go afk. I'm thinking about switching to terran so I can float my buildings in the corners.


I actually do float my buildings sometimes. Childish, whatever!!!


----------



## LickTheEnvelope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Who here has ever done an offensive GG in 1v1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? (ie GG'ing before the game has ended because you assume you have won after, during, before an engagement or something)
> I did it the other day, my opponent raged hard for some reason. Heck It was 7 base to 3 and I could warp in 28 stalkers at once if my army did die <3
> PvT is fun. PvZ sucks.


Opposite for me.

PVZ is macro macro macro. Stay on as many bases as the Zerg and you win, basically.

Terran... *sigh*

I've had scenarios where I have 5 bases to a Terran on 3 base... I kill all but 20 scv's and still lose... Granted I make a few mistakes, but still.


----------



## DoomDash

IPL ye olde map tournament to begin in 4 min!

http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/


----------



## Sainesk

facing so much BM today









me: GLHF
opponent: says the random...
opponent proceeds to 4 gate and lose...


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> facing so much BM today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me: GLHF
> opponent: says the random...
> opponent proceeds to 4 gate and lose...


........

how can one even racially abuse a RANDOM player........


----------



## DoomDash

Random is annoying in its own way. You always have a very early game advantage really. For Terran it can completely throw of the direction I like to start match ups sometimes.


----------



## Alex132

Nope, scout after your first supply building and it doesn't matter. Just wall in too. Also Random is a lot harder as you need to learn 3x strategies


----------



## Alex132

Only real advantage you get is forcing in a wall-off due to 9 pools / zealot rush / making a bunker for 6 rax (if you haven't scouted even ~6:30 in). If I play a random I just think "Yes, I just have to hold off their rush and win" or "Yes, easy to outmacro him"


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Only real advantage you get is forcing in a wall-off due to 9 pools / zealot rush / making a bunker for 6 rax (if you haven't scouted even ~6:30 in). If I play a random I just think "Yes, I just have to hold off their rush and win" or "Yes, easy to outmacro him"


Haha so many people think like that, but if you can do a little to deny scouting as random you can force an econ advantage by making them play it safe. actual that's true even if your not random but its particularly true as random. Personally i prefer to play very straight up, not that i dont ever cheese just very rarely. And when i do its normally like double fast expo or something rather than a early rush.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Random is annoying in its own way. You always have a very early game advantage really. For Terran it can completely throw of the direction I like to start match ups sometimes.


RvR is my favorite







but yeah random forces an earlier scout than you would like or it forces different building placement, but i like to early scout on ladder anyway with so much cheese about it makes it easier (for me at least) to tell what im up against and if my opponent is playing straight up or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ........
> how can one even racially abuse a RANDOM player........


Happens all the time for some reason everyone hates us randoms more than any other race.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I actually do float my buildings sometimes. Childish, whatever!!!


worst for this used to be scrap station with that stupid island, so many games you win then the guy would float a cc over and just spam build missile turrets and go afk happened allot in lower leagues particularly if you got an early win like eh tried to cheese you and you scouted/countered it.


----------



## Alex132

I was saying playing AGAINST random, always excpect cheese / rushes / all-ins, at least a lot more than normal.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope, scout after your first supply building and it doesn't matter. Just wall in too. Also Random is a lot harder as you need to learn 3x strategies


You mean 3x the cheese. Never met a randomer who played me straight up.


----------



## Sainesk

I wouldn't mind if Randoms race was displayed, I share it anyway if my opponent asks. I just don't like being tied down to 1 race, the variety is fun but it kind of makes me a jack of all trades master of none...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope, scout after your first supply building and it doesn't matter. Just wall in too. Also Random is a lot harder as you need to learn 3x strategies
> 
> 
> 
> You mean 3x the cheese. Never met a randomer who played me straight up.
Click to expand...

I used to play straight up, then I got bad at terran. No idea how that happened xD

I can play a P / Z matchup macro easily, often if it's a macro game I win. If people let me do what I want (ie no timing attacks, annoying harrass etc) I normally max out around about 15 minutes as protoss with 3-4 bases. Not sure about Zerg but it is sooner than that.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I wouldn't mind if Randoms race was displayed, I share it anyway if my opponent asks. I just don't like being tied down to 1 race, the variety is fun but it kind of makes me a jack of all trades master of none...


YEP!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I wouldn't mind if Randoms race was displayed, I share it anyway if my opponent asks. I just don't like being tied down to 1 race, the variety is fun but it kind of makes me a jack of all trades master of none...


I REALLY wish I could alternate between Zerg and Protoss. Like a random between those 2 races.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I REALLY wish I could alternate between Zerg and Protoss. Like a random between those 2 races.


Wonder what they would call that. Bi-Random?

I guess most would be gay randoms then. lol!!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I REALLY wish I could alternate between Zerg and Protoss. Like a random between those 2 races.
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder what they would call that. Bi-Random?
> 
> I guess most would be gay randoms then. lol!!
Click to expand...

Or just random between 2 races .-.

But I want to be a Zerg player because of their late game strength with brood lords, ultras, infestors, etc. But I am better at Protoss... so yeah.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Or just random between 2 races .-.
> But I want to be a Zerg player because of their late game strength with brood lords, ultras, infestors, etc. But I am better at Protoss... so yeah.


oh grief.. lighten up .-.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Or just random between 2 races .-.
> But I want to be a Zerg player because of their late game strength with brood lords, ultras, infestors, etc. But I am better at Protoss... so yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> oh grief.. lighten up .-.
Click to expand...

But Z so op~ xD

One reason I don't like Husky is because he doesn't know as much as Tasteless / Artosis about different strats. For example I was just watching one of his 1v1's on YouTube and this is what he scouted: 3 gates, forge with an upgrade going and twilight with an upgrade going. First thing I thought was zealot charge with +1 attack timing (seeing as how there was no obs for blink stalker into the main), he assumed archons .-.
I was right








He was going for 1 base colosus, so woulda died anyway lol


----------



## Anti!!

Lol!! Thats why i would go day9 and dj wheat. But yeah artosis knows alot of stuff.


----------



## Alex132

Commentators I would listen to would be (in order of preference):

Artosis -> Day[9] -> Tasteless -> Others

At others I prefer players POV's a lot more









Artosis / Day[9] / Tasteless know so much about SC2 though, it's insane.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Commentators I would listen to would be (in order of preference):
> Artosis -> Day[9] -> Tasteless -> Others
> At others I prefer players POV's a lot more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artosis / Day[9] / Tasteless know so much about SC2 though, it's insane.


Agreed except tasteless. I flat out don't like him. Doesnt seem to know that much and only says i like drinking and to say oh my god all the time. Just gets on my nerves. His voice sucks too.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Commentators I would listen to would be (in order of preference):
> Artosis -> Day[9] -> Tasteless -> Others
> At others I prefer players POV's a lot more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artosis / Day[9] / Tasteless know so much about SC2 though, it's insane.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed except tasteless. I flat out don't like him. Doesnt seem to know that much and only says i like drinking and to say oh my god all the time. Just gets on my nerves. His voice sucks too.
Click to expand...

WHAT?! WHAT?! HE IS SO AWESOME. STOP IT. STOP. GO AWAY. I DONT LIKE YOU ANYMORE. NYYYYYYYYYYYYUUUUUUUUUUU.








I find him so awesome and funny









And he really does know a lot about SC1/2, if you hear him talk pure strategy. He is about the same as his brother, but his brother is better to the very, very technical and meta-game notes. Also his brother is a lot better at maths / teaching ergo getting across his ideas with maths (as SC2 is very similar to maths in a lot of ways) and teaching, well duh yeah better at teaching others about SC2.


----------



## thenailedone

I find that most of the casters I have watched brings something entertaining to the game.

Started of with Husky and HD... been off of HD for a while as he doesn't post so much to Youtube anymore and I seldom watch IPL. I ♥ Day9 and also the Tastetosis.

Been watching a lot of LAG-TV for a while now, often worth a laugh









Nailed


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Agreed except tasteless. I flat out don't like him. Doesnt seem to know that much and only says i like drinking and to say oh my god all the time. Just gets on my nerves. His voice sucks too.


How dare you...

I actually like really Apollo/TB. Kind of view them as the European counterparts to Tastosis. Apollo's analysis is usually spot on.


----------



## DoomDash

Tasteless is an awesome caster, and with out him there can be no archon.


----------



## 13321G4

Tasteless is hilarious, especially with Artosis, but I still prefer Day [9].

I just don't like HD's voice and Husky is meh. The worst however are the casters for imba.tv. Rediculous aviator cap and the worst casting voice(s) ever!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Tasteless is an awesome caster, and with out him there can be no archon.


Some quotes from that song that made me laugh:
Quote:


> Manlier than Chinro


Quote:


> But there's just one thing I'll never forget
> 
> There's just SO MANY BANELINGS


Quote:


> When John's on your back cause everyone's Grack


Quote:


> And when that panda bear died
> I remember I cried and I remember that you cried to


The last one is an SC1 reference, actually here:


----------



## Anti!!

Meh renny renny.


----------



## ntherblast

Gotta love 2v2 apparently me a diamond gets a gold ally vs 2 diamond friends = teams even


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love 2v2 apparently me a diamond gets a gold ally vs 2 diamond friends = teams even


Meh I like 2v2, except it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into masters for it. I have been masters in 2v2 3v3 for a long time until s6 rolled around. My friend and I can't actually get into it despite hardly losing any games (like 1 out of 20 against all diamond / masters players). It is basically all him, does help that he is top 8 masters, could be GM but is uber lazy and we just play LoL now instead of practicing (well I spectate his games)


----------



## Alex132

Has anyone noticed how much SC2 has helped for multitasking especially using a computer to do other things? My WPM went up by like 20 or something since I started playing SC2 xD


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Meh I like 2v2, except it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into masters for it. I have been masters in 2v2 3v3 for a long time until s6 rolled around. My friend and I can't actually get into it despite hardly losing any games (like 1 out of 20 against all diamond / masters players). It is basically all him, does help that he is top 8 masters, could be GM but is uber lazy and we just play LoL now instead of practicing (well I spectate his games)


Well i aint talking about arranged teams i was playing random team 2v2


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Meh I like 2v2, except it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into masters for it. I have been masters in 2v2 3v3 for a long time until s6 rolled around. My friend and I can't actually get into it despite hardly losing any games (like 1 out of 20 against all diamond / masters players). It is basically all him, does help that he is top 8 masters, could be GM but is uber lazy and we just play LoL now instead of practicing (well I spectate his games)
> 
> 
> 
> Well i aint talking about arranged teams i was playing random team 2v2
Click to expand...


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Shame :<


I cant see what you wrote


----------



## Alex132

oh its the colon then less than that messes that up


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Has anyone noticed how much SC2 has helped for multitasking especially using a computer to do other things? My WPM went up by like 20 or something since I started playing SC2 xD


I have pin point mouse accuracy when I'm browsing the web and I think my wpm went up significantly too. I tend to click way more or box words for no reason now lol.


----------



## avaya

I don't like the team GSL casters. I bought the ~$100 2012 TGSL season pass and definitely won't do that again unless they improve or get replaced. Whoever runs the mouse is awesome cause he's always flipping between production/income/army tab while quickly circling parts of the mini-map that the casters miss an impressively high number of times.

Day9 is a little long winded sometimes. Maybe it's because he is trying to appeal to everyone from bronze up to masters, but it seems like he spends too long time explaining really basic points.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love 2v2 apparently me a diamond gets a gold ally vs 2 diamond friends = teams even
> 
> 
> 
> Meh I like 2v2, except it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into masters for it. I have been masters in 2v2 3v3 for a long time until s6 rolled around. My friend and I can't actually get into it despite hardly losing any games (like 1 out of 20 against all diamond / masters players). It is basically all him, does help that he is top 8 masters, could be GM but is uber lazy and we just play LoL now instead of practicing (well I spectate his games)
Click to expand...

I have to disagree.

It just takes a excellent cheese build to get into masters in 2v2. Me and my friend were both silver 1v1, and I got promoted to gold in Season 3, and Season 4 is where we took our 2v2 from silver to masters.

When the below video was made I had just gotten to gold and JustTheMan was still in silver. We developed a 2v2 strat for Zerg and Toss. We're both usually toss players, but I would go zerg and he would go protoss. We went from silver 2v2's to Masters in just a couple weeks. The first video is my perspective and is labeled as Diamond Strategy, but we got Masters a couple days after the video was posted.

Our game starts at 1:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3AHPpODcQY

And this is a replay where I show the protoss build, where there are 5 stalkers by 5:30

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/309953793


----------



## 13321G4

Who is all excited by another of SC2 with Stephano?

https://twitter.com/#!/MillStephano/status/193077613235945472


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Who is all excited by another of SC2 with Stephano?
> https://twitter.com/#!/MillStephano/status/193077613235945472


Very good for everyone







.

Man I just played a crazy TvP that had maybe 40 seconds of a luls after the first engagement, for like 10+ minutes. Blinker, this would be a good replay for you to analyze.

Things I think or know right off the bat: More ghosts. More barracks faster. Upgrades faster. Maybe expand even more? Building plating / range? More drops.



Again it's Diamond level on Korea.


----------



## avaya

I think I need more ram. I sometimes drop to below 5fps during heavy battles. GPU is not overheating, cpu is 4ghz, graphics settings on low. I think it's ram and not GPU because it stays at <5 fps for 10 to 20 seconds after the battle is over and then slowly moves back to 60+. TaskMgr shows ram usage at 3.9gb / 4.0gb. Anyone else ever have problems in sc2 with 4gb of ram?

On the brighter me and a partner went 7-1 in 2v2's and we are maintaining our Rank #1 masters status


----------



## Anti!!

How much gram is your gpu and what is your res?

I have never had that prob with four gigs before, but i had a similar prob with a 768mb gtx460.

But if your that close to the limit in tskmngr. You definetly need more ram. Lol or you need to get rid of some background programs.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Man I just played a crazy TvP


Lol, that match was like storm damage vs medivac healing







I was kind of curious as to why you brought the factory along for the first engagement...

and if making the barrack at 12 and getting a delayed worker (what you did) is better than 13 with no delayed worker (what I usually do) or is it like the whole 9 pylon vs 10 pylon+gate thing where it depends on if you want to tech faster...?


----------



## Alex132

The GSL Code S casters are the best in the world, heck their phrases and even how they dress have been copied by other castors. I really think that they at the forefront of eSports commentating and the best at it.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> The GSL Code S casters are the best in the world, heck their phrases and even how they dress have been copied by other castors. I really think that they at the forefront of eSports commentating and the best at it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Lol, that match was like storm damage vs medivac healing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was kind of curious as to why you brought the factory along for the first engagement...
> and if making the barrack at 12 and getting a delayed worker (what you did) is better than 13 with no delayed worker (what I usually do) or is it like the whole 9 pylon vs 10 pylon+gate thing where it depends on if you want to tech faster...?


I don't really know the difference between opening the way I do and any other way. This is just the way I've always opened with gas openers.

As for the factory I bring it with to see up the high ground if I need to, see his unit comp, and get position of templars ect.

Anyway I really find that MU hard. I never felt like there was a good spot to add on a ton of ghost, the entire game was just scrappy on both sides. I felt like we kept going back and fourth the entire time.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


Yep, i jus threw up a little bit in my mouth.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4496750749
Quote:


> After several players reporting a fps decrease in this map, Blizzard decided to remove it from the pool till they fix it. It will be removed next week maintenance. April 24th for Americas region.


Good I lost two games on this map. One of them caused my graphics to glitch out and it was almost unplayable, though I changed my rest temporarily to fix the look of it. Still was laggy as heck. I gave it one more chance but my FPS was low, so I checked it off afterwords.


----------



## Alex132

Noooooooo I loved that map... well kinda. Never found any lag on it at all, maybe it is only nvidia-related?

Also we should get the GSL version of that map~


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Noooooooo I loved that map... well kinda. Never found any lag on it at all, maybe it is only nvidia-related?
> Also we should get the GSL version of that map~


Never got a chance to really appreciate / hate the map







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Never got a chance to really appreciate / hate the map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Never played 1v1 to get to try it. haha


----------



## DoomDash

1v1 is the only way I roll.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 1v1 is the only way I roll.


Used to be the only way i roll also, but i just cant. I have clan members that i might get to see once a week and then we can only play maybe 3 games total. So, it has to be team so we can have a little fun.

We used to only play 1v1 customs for hours on end. Thats when i used to be mediocre. Low masters. BUT. no more these days..


----------



## DoomDash

I don't find team games to be rewarding at all, even if I win I just feel like it was pointless, and that's just not how I get my kicks I guess. Same reason I don't understand this LoL craze ( one of the many reasons ).


----------



## Alex132

I really do enjoy LoL as it gives you a lot more chances than SC2 1v1, but that is also why I don't like it as much as SC2









LoL is too easy to be carried / luck-through and just not even pay careful attention to the small things like mushroom placement or kiting units perfectly (ranged chars = op IMO







)


----------



## Nethermir

too bad, metropolis is such a nice map









for the past week or so i've been getting a lot of cannon rush/ramp blocking action of protoss on the new maps







need those depots again...or i just need to have my probe down there again /rant

guys when playing sc2, does it always utilize 99% gpu usage? this is the first time that i really bothered checking gpu usage and was surprised to see 99% usage during sc2.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> too bad, metropolis is such a nice map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the past week or so i've been getting a lot of cannon rush/ramp blocking action of protoss on the new maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> need those depots again...or i just need to have my probe down there again /rant
> 
> guys when playing sc2, does it always utilize 99% gpu usage? this is the first time that i really bothered checking gpu usage and was surprised to see 99% usage during sc2.


Nope, it was an old problem with nvidia drivers or something. Just update your drivers to the latest.


----------



## Nethermir

im using 301.24 beta drivers. any special settings that needs to be checked? i have the gtx 580.

edit: found a few thread about turning off vsync. may need to try those.


----------



## Anti!!

Nah vsync will only limit your highest refresh rate ie fps. That is weird. I have a 580 also and im no where near 100% if i remember correctly. Even on my bros 570.

On the team games discussion.

I dont necessarily get kicks from team games. Its actually quite boring, but we are all close friends. Thats the only thing that makes it fun.


----------



## DoomDash

3-8 today across korea and na, almost all losses to protosses, even if I was favored I still lost. I played them very well too is that sad part. Must be some sort of build order thing, certainly not my mechanics that's for sure.

I seriously despise that MU.


----------



## Mwarren

TvP is really just about getting ahead and staying ahead. I base my TvP around nothing but timing attacks to be honest. 2 rax expand pressure into, CS timing push, into stim timing push, into +1 timing push, etc etc while building up the right unit composition and dropping when medivacs are out.

I still believe that autocast for charge should be removed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> TvP is really just about getting ahead and staying ahead. I base my TvP around nothing but timing attacks to be honest. 2 rax expand pressure into, CS timing push, into stim timing push, into +1 timing push, etc etc while building up the right unit composition and dropping when medivacs are out.
> I still believe that autocast for charge should be removed.


What happens if you don't do enough damage and they have that ideal tech?

Critique


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> TvP is really just about getting ahead and staying ahead. I base my TvP around nothing but timing attacks to be honest. 2 rax expand pressure into, CS timing push, into stim timing push, into +1 timing push, etc etc while building up the right unit composition and dropping when medivacs are out.
> I still believe that autocast for charge should be removed.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens if you don't do enough damage and they have that ideal tech?
> 
> Critique
Click to expand...

You really did not make enough vikings and you didnt even make ghosts at all. Just one note there


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You really did not make enough vikings and you didnt even make ghosts at all. Just one note there


so far i've lost every game going ghost against protoss. When I decide not to, I have a chance

I know i'm not in the same leagues, just saying.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You really did not make enough vikings and you didnt even make ghosts at all. Just one note there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so far i've lost every game going ghost against protoss. When I decide not to, I have a chance
> 
> I know i'm not in the same leagues, just saying.
Click to expand...

EMPs are so, so strong though.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> EMPs are so, so strong though.


were.

Now that the range got nerfed to 1.5, you should feel lucky everytime you hit more than 2 units with 1 emp

i dont know man, I can't seem to find a good timing to start training them ghosts. If i do it too early, ill have enough ghosts but not enough marauders to deal actually dmg. If I do it too late, it's extremely likely that the ghosts will come out in time with not enough energy for a single emp. That, and they take away all the possible gas I could have for teching to medivacs. By the time I actually do, they got HT and I suck at dodging storms. Either way I eventually lost those games.

If I want to try end it early I go pure MM, if I want to survive late I go MMM vikings banshees. I dont know why but ghosts just don't seem to work well in my (essentially) free-to-do-whatever builds.

I've tried that so many times I've pretty much given up on this unit (well, maybe not all that many times, since you guys play so many more games than I do).

I know I just suck at using special units, but whatever the reasons were, I simply found myself having more chance of winning by skipping ghosts


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> EMPs are so, so strong though.
> 
> 
> 
> were.
> 
> Now that the range got nerfed to 1.5, you should feel lucky everytime you hit more than 2 units with 1 emp
Click to expand...

What lol no, use more than 1 ghost duh








Ghosts should make the protoss split up his sentries and HTs from the other units. If he doesn't, bam, emp, charge, death.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i dont know man, I can't seem to find a good timing to start training them ghosts. If i do it too early, ill have enough ghosts but not enough marauders to deal actually dmg. If I do it too late, it's extremely likely that the ghosts will come out in time with not enough energy for a single emp. That, and they take away all the possible gas I could have for teching to medivacs. By the time I actually do, they got HT and I suck at dodging storms. Either way I eventually lost those games.


Well you need to learn how to use ghosts and their timings then.
They're not so much of a noob-crutch like infestors








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> If I want to try end it early I go pure MM, if I want to survive late I go MMM vikings banshees. I dont know why but ghosts just don't seem to work well in my (essentially) free-to-do-whatever builds.
> 
> I've tried that so many times I've pretty much given up on this unit (well, maybe not all that many times, since you guys play so many more games than I do).
> 
> I know I just suck at using special units, but whatever the reasons were, I simply found myself having more chance of winning by skipping ghosts


Well try harder








Get cloak, upgrades etc. iono I can't really say, haven't seen your replays and whatnot.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What happens if you don't do enough damage and they have that ideal tech?
> Critique


Than I lose, Toss has a much stronger late game than terran. Right now TvP I either do a marine/hellion drop into 1/1/1 or I play standard and do timing attacks sometimes even pulling scvs to trade armys while building up the right unit comp. If they get to 3+ bases I generally lose as archons are way too good and need a nerf imo and templar/collosus/chargelot/archon becomes extremely hard to deal with.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I remember the archon change making me rage. I understand it is a nice change for everything but in TvP archons didnt need to be good.

I have to say I don't really like ghosts much right now. I've used them in other matches plenty ( majority of them ), but EMP is pretty meh now unless the toss is REALLY bad and groups all his important units.


----------



## Mwarren

I think that the problem right now in TvP is that tanks are garbage vs Toss. In my opinion zealots should be changed from bio to light armored that way siege tanks will actually do good against them and make siege tanks viable TvP.. As for ghosts, I think that having a few of them in your army can help a lot but you have to get off key emps on infestors/templars for them to make a difference. Once that protoss players start to split their army up so that it isn't in a ball a long with their high templars thats when toss will be extremely scary.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What happens if you don't do enough damage and they have that ideal tech?
> Critique


You went:
10 depot & scout
12rax
13gas
[scouted 1gate gas]
15 orbital
16 marine
16 tech lab & depot
18 bunker
18 reaper
~20 CC
You had double bunker and started Factory at 8m 10s, after stim. If you are going to double bunker then you need to be more greedy and start the factory earlier for faster 2 medivac drop/poke. Stim should always start after factory unless you have a refined build order for attack when stim finishes. You had enough marine/marauder to defend a 1 base 4gate all-in, but you knew he had an expo. In the pro game I discuss below, terran started factory at same time as you, but instead of making all the marine & marauder he started a 3rd CC and double upgrades (on same map after scouting the same 1gate gas from protoss).

You are in an ugly situation from 10m - 13m when he had double ranged colossus and you had no vikings. He could have done damage with an attack but instead chose to go very greedy on upgrades and templar tech without making gateway units. If you had a 3rd CC or were pressuring with drops it would have been much better. When you first attack at 14m he has 2 ranged colossus, 4x templars with storm and equal upgrades (granted he got lucky storm and +1/1 finished same time you attacked).

The faster 3rd around 14m 30s was good, but you stopped scv production and could have used about 10 more just to have basic 16 saturation on minerals and 6 on gas. You started scv production again around 17m but were behind quite a bit of $$ for the delay. After killing his 4th around 19m you needed to kite army back better when retreating instead of losing most of it and losing all medivacs. Would have been worth giving up some macro.

When killing his 4th you sniped his robo bay which forced him into more templars and less colossus. When came for killing attack at 22m you had 0 ghosts. Impossible for terran to beat a templar army without good emps.

StarTale_Virus vs Quantic_NaniWa in Code S (played 4/18/2012) on same map was very similar build from protoss(Terran scouted 1gate gas). Terran went standard gasless expand (I think there's a reason very few pro's go reaper scout tvp anymore). Terran BO:

15 OC, bunker & 2x depot at top of ramp
18 CC
19 engineering bay block of protoss natural
25 bunker to protect natural
26 start 3rd CC in base, OC on expo (4m 45s)
2x gas (5m)
33 2x engineering bay (5m 56s)
36 2nd and 3rd rax (6m 28s) (these made 2marines & 1 marauder rounds for 3 minutes)
37 tech lab on rax
40 2nd bunker, +1/1, stim
42 3rd bunker (7m 10s)
60 factory (8m 5s)
60 1x reactor (8m 20s)
66 starport & 2nd reactor (9m)
73 armory (9m 30s)
83 2x rax & 2x medivac 10m
10m 30s land/take 3rd

edit- i'm top25 masters random, mostly protoss. I think you a bit better than me. Hopefully something I said useful. I wouldn't mine a +rep cause i'd like to be able to sell stuff on the forums here


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> You went:
> 10 depot & scout
> 12rax
> 13gas
> [scouted 1gate gas]
> 15 orbital
> 16 marine
> 16 tech lab & depot
> 18 bunker
> 18 reaper
> ~20 CC
> You had double bunker and started Factory at 8m 10s, after stim. If you are going to double bunker then you need to be more greedy and start the factory earlier for faster 2 medivac drop/poke. Stim should always start after factory unless you have a refined build order for attack when stim finishes. You had enough marine/marauder to defend a 1 base 4gate all-in, but you knew he had an expo. In the pro game I discuss below, terran started factory at same time as you, but instead of making all the marine & marauder he started a 3rd CC and double upgrades (on same map after scouting the same 1gate gas from protoss).
> You are in an ugly situation from 10m - 13m when he had double ranged colossus and you had no vikings. He could have done damage with an attack but instead chose to go very greedy on upgrades and templar tech without making gateway units. If you had a 3rd CC or were pressuring with drops it would have been much better. When you first attack at 14m he has 2 ranged colossus, 4x templars with storm and equal upgrades (granted he got lucky storm and +1/1 finished same time you attacked).
> The faster 3rd around 14m 30s was good, but you stopped scv production and could have used about 10 more just to have basic 16 saturation on minerals and 6 on gas. You started scv production again around 17m but were behind quite a bit of $$ for the delay. After killing his 4th around 19m you needed to kite army back better when retreating instead of losing most of it and losing all medivacs. Would have been worth giving up some macro.
> When killing his 4th you sniped his robo bay which forced him into more templars and less colossus. When came for killing attack at 22m you had 0 ghosts. Impossible for terran to beat a templar army without good emps.
> StarTale_Virus vs Quantic_NaniWa in Code S (played 4/18/2012) on same map was very similar build from protoss(Terran scouted 1gate gas). Terran went standard gasless expand (I think there's a reason very few pro's go reaper scout tvp anymore). Terran BO:
> 15 OC, bunker & 2x depot at top of ramp
> 18 CC
> 19 engineering bay block of protoss natural
> 25 bunker to protect natural
> 26 start 3rd CC in base, OC on expo (4m 45s)
> 2x gas (5m)
> 33 2x engineering bay (5m 56s)
> 36 2nd and 3rd rax (6m 28s) (these made 2marines & 1 marauder rounds for 3 minutes)
> 37 tech lab on rax
> 40 2nd bunker, +1/1, stim
> 42 3rd bunker (7m 10s)
> 60 factory (8m 5s)
> 60 1x reactor (8m 20s)
> 66 starport & 2nd reactor (9m)
> 73 armory (9m 30s)
> 83 2x rax & 2x medivac 10m
> 10m 30s land/take 3rd
> edit- i'm top25 masters random, mostly protoss. I think you a bit better than me. Hopefully something I said useful. I wouldn't mine a +rep cause i'd like to be able to sell stuff on the forums here


Thanks, lots of good points and I will take them into consideration. I def needed ghosts, and I've been experimenting with faster 3rd CC's as well. +rep.

Also I doubt I'm better than you if you are top 25 masters especially as random. I am currently not doing too hot in Masters, doing better on the Korean server in Diamond though.


----------



## HarrisLam

just decided to get into SC2 and rock some 1v1 till i get tired, I was hoping i would get my 1v1 touch back!!!!!!

played my placement, spent like 25 minutes winning the TvP, something I haven't done in quite a while

then I went

phew, alright let me exit game and chill out......


----------



## Nethermir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Nah vsync will only limit your highest refresh rate ie fps. That is weird. I have a 580 also and im no where near 100% if i remember correctly. Even on my bros 570.
> On the team games discussion.
> I dont necessarily get kicks from team games. Its actually quite boring, but we are all close friends. Thats the only thing that makes it fun.


i found the issue. ambient occlusion -.- for some reason if i have it on, it jacks up my gpu usage. with it off, my highest usage is around 60%.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Very good for everyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Man I just played a crazy TvP that had maybe 40 seconds of a luls after the first engagement, for like 10+ minutes. Blinker, this would be a good replay for you to analyze.
> Things I think or know right off the bat: More ghosts. More barracks faster. Upgrades faster. Maybe expand even more? Building plating / range? More drops.
> 
> Again it's Diamond level on Korea.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Critique


I've watched both games. Here are some random thoughts from the top of my head. Take with a pile of salt.

The protoss in the first game wasn't that good so I'll focus more on the second one. He was floating 2k minerals and gas 15 minutes into the game, never transitioned into colossi and got sloppy on upgrades. Some points from this game: With you first attack on this map I think it's better to attack from the direction of third. One thing is that it's easier than attacking up the ramp, even with the spotting factory. Second thing is that it threatens a drop into the main so protoss will have to split his army and if he doesn't you can just drop into his main or if he's sloppy snipe some units/pylons from the low ground etc.. Also once protoss is on 3 bases he will usually position his army at his 3rd to protect both 3rd and the main. You can then drop his natural easily with medivacs going from like 9 o'clock. It's very safe for you and quite annoying for protoss. Finally you should probably use more scans late game when attacking to get superior positioning. Not that it mattered in this game, but after losing his 3rd protoss was terribly out of position and you could've scanned his army and drop in his main talking down two bases without any loses.
You don't seem to be using your SCV scout much. Since you send it out at 12 anyway there's no reason not to keep it protoss base until the stalker is out to check his chrono and gas. Even if you think you can hold anything with your opening it's good to mentally prepare for what you may be facing. Eg. 1 gas, low chrono - 1 gate expand; 1 gas, saved chrono - 4 gate (warp prism); 2 gas, low chrono - 1 gate expand with sentries; 2 gas, saved chrono - aggresion + tech (VR, immortal).
I'm not sure why you skip the 8 minute scan. I can see how getting 2 blind bunkers can make you safer against something like a 6 rax, but there's much more you can read from it (tech choice, macro (eg. double forge) or 2 base all-in) and deviate your build if necessary. Again it allows you to mentally prepare for the midgame.
I'm personally not a big fan of 1 rax tech-lab opening. As protoss I feel I'm at worse position going against gasless. It's not only economically superior, but also leaves protoss blind till like 8 minutes into the game. There's actually much more reasons why I think 1rax tech-lab is not so good, but I don't feel like writing them all down. Just my opinion.
A big point - the medivac push. I'm not sure if it's because of your opening or the delayed factory, but you're doing it pretty late. The normal timing for it is around 10:00 - 10:30 (off gasless FE) and I always find it quite scary. It is designed to hit before protoss secondary tech kicks in and to do damage while terran is the strongest. So normally you'll face something like 1/1 done, no colo or colo no range or blink/charge no templar etc. If you hit later than that there's a chance you'll miss your timing window. If you just let protoss tech freely for 15 minutes it's no wonder you have troubles in the late game. In fact in the game you lost protoss played extremely greedy going for colossi, double forge and storm off just two bases and any strong timing would have at least done some major damage.
You probably don't need that many towers and they actually make your army smaller.. I see how you may be scared of DTs, but then again an SCV scout and 8 minute scan will tell you if DTs are an option.
I think past two bases TvP becomes much more reactive for terran than for protoss. Unless you're MKP you do need ghosts against HT's and vikings against colossus (at least 2 per colossus). In the very lategame there's no reason not to have at least 5 ghosts in the army and air weapon upgrades.
The lategame TvP is a lot about positioning, so again save some scans and try to get favourable engagements. Also look at the upgrades, eg. if you're at a disadvantage don't fight or distract protoss with drops, when equal look for favourable position, better upgrades - 1a, t.


----------



## DoomDash

Thanks. I will try and get the medivacs / timing better, as well as the rest.


----------



## sepheroth003

Wow 12 pages on this thread while I was traveling. YAY made it home finally, good riddance Afghanistan!

So got some, hopped on the computer and wanted to see how amazing SC2 is on a good connection with my nice desktop... it's not installed! lol

Rather than installed it, I installed the Diablo 3 beta since it's only open this weekend. Once thats over, I'll get SC2 up and going again. See you guys around.


----------



## HarrisLam

I'm still looking forward to playing / playing with you









man i aint even gonna try the beta

What's the point?

Im gonna buy it anyway, might as well leave all the surprises to release day, or even the week later(no time to get online and play, server down due to traffic, etc etc, who knows?), if there should be any surprises at all









though after watching countless youtube videos of and about the game, I can't really say I'm all that excited about the game at this stage.


----------



## CravinR1

I used to play SC and Diablo all the time on my K62 350 mhz back in the day, and I liked Diablo 2

But for some reason Diablo 3 i'm not impressed with. If I get it at all it'll be a year or 2 when the price is down to $20


----------



## Mwarren

Does anyone else feel as though at its core SC2 really isn't a strategy game? I feel like this game requires much, much, more mechanical ability than it does strategy. Plus I hardly ever see any amazing strategy or stuff that would require a lot of thought being done in pro level games. It just seems like SC2 really at its core is a mechanical game where if a player has good enough mechanics he can beat any player going just marines. I find it kind of lame that most high level games or games in general are decided by who has better mechanics and not strategy.

Basically the way that I feel about SC2 is that its to strategy games what counter strike is to combat simulators such as ARMA.


----------



## Yukss

i finally left bronze, im rank 1 in silver now facing top golds and mid plats.... i smell promotion soon..

http://sc2ranks.com/div/278715/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Does anyone else feel as though at its core SC2 really isn't a strategy game? I feel like this game requires much, much, more mechanical ability than it does strategy. Plus I hardly ever see any amazing strategy or stuff that would require a lot of thought being done in pro level games. It just seems like SC2 really at its core is a mechanical game where if a player has good enough mechanics he can beat any player going just marines. I find it kind of lame that most high level games or games in general are decided by who has better mechanics and not strategy.
> Basically the way that I feel about SC2 is that its to strategy games what counter strike is to combat simulators such as ARMA.


I feel like mechanics help a ton, but over all it requires a ton of skills like strategy, remembering, ect. I certainly don't think these pro players are JUST mechanically gifted, they are really smart.


----------



## Mwarren

I don't think that it comes down to being gifted at all, just hard work. Those guys are good because they play over 12 hours a day and focus on repetitious activity's such as doing the same build over and over again and working on their micro.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I don't think that it comes down to being gifted at all, just hard work. Those guys are good because they play over 12 hours a day and focus on repetitious activity's such as doing the same build over and over again and working on their micro.


Most all of them played BW also. So, they've been doing this for 10+ years.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I don't think that it comes down to being gifted at all, just hard work. Those guys are good because they play over 12 hours a day and focus on repetitious activity's such as doing the same build over and over again and working on their micro.
> 
> 
> 
> Most all of them played BW also. So, they've been doing this for 10+ years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of BW players have nice mechanics, macro etc but just fail to do well.


----------



## HarrisLam

i think only the non-real time strat games are true strat games because you are allow to think forever and your plan is really the only thing that matters.

when time is a highly limiting factor, the focus of the game shifts dramatically

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i finally left bronze, im rank 1 in silver now facing top golds and mid plats.... i smell promotion soon..
> http://sc2ranks.com/div/278715/


congrats!!

were you the protoss guy that played me about a month ago?

meh, not a surprise


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I'm still looking forward to playing / playing with you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man i aint even gonna try the beta
> What's the point?
> Im gonna buy it anyway, might as well leave all the surprises to release day, or even the week later(no time to get online and play, server down due to traffic, etc etc, who knows?), if there should be any surprises at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> though after watching countless youtube videos of and about the game, I can't really say I'm all that excited about the game at this stage.


Ya I did the year of wow subscription, so I already have D3 preloaded.

I'm playing the beta so I can get a better handle on which class I want to play.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Ya I did the year of wow subscription, so I already have D3 preloaded.
> *I'm playing the beta so I can get a better handle on which class I want to play.*


seems like a lot of people are doing this

but i already decided long ago that Imma be a female demon hunter

yeeeeeeeeeeah booooooi









god dang, the whole weekend has past and my spare time finally starts, on sunday at midnight

how lame


----------



## Fortunex

It is very much a strategy game, you just need good mechanics to pull a lot of these strategies off.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> It is very much a strategy game, you just need good mechanics to pull a lot of these strategies off.


I respectfully disagree. SC2 is a game where you are limited by your mechanics, not strategy. You can have the best strategy's in the world and still be considered garbage. MarineKing Prime is a good example of how mechanics play a much, much bigger role in SC2 than strategy. In a real strategy game mechanics play no role what so ever.

My problem with starcraft 2 is that it becomes stagnant after you reach a certain level and becomes a game mainly about mechanics and not strategy. I prefer games that reward thinking outside of the box and being able to come up with unique strategy's and SC2 is not a game that rewards that.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> It is very much a strategy game, you just need good mechanics to pull a lot of these strategies off.
> 
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree. SC2 is a game where you are limited by your mechanics, not strategy. You can have the best strategy's in the world and still be considered garbage. MarineKing Prime is a good example of how mechanics play a much, much bigger role in SC2 than strategy. In a real strategy game mechanics play no role what so ever.
Click to expand...

His mechanics are highly, highly overrated. He just came in with Marine splitting at a time where it was very rarely done well. And he did it very well. Also look at players like NaDa or Idra, amazing mechanics but poor results. Whereas people like aLive have good mechanics, good strats, and good results.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> My problem with starcraft 2 is that it becomes stagnant after you reach a certain level and becomes a game mainly about mechanics and not strategy. I prefer games that reward thinking outside of the box and being able to come up with unique strategy's and SC2 is not a game that rewards that.


Not really, I have gone like 10 pylon, 14 gate by mistake and still beaten a high level master league player because I simply out strategised him in what I did, decision making and game sense. Mechanics are a large part, but about as equally large as any other part. For example, you cannot go marine-tank in a TvP and just try to rely on your mechanics to save you, no matter who you are.

A lot of the game is knowing what to do AND how to execute it. Also you used MKP as an example, but he hasn't won as much as people such as NesTea, MVP or MC. Those 3 people are a prime example for a great combination of mechanics, decision-making, strategies, great build line-ups, etc. thus they are very good.
And as for unique strategies, they may be unique, but doesn't mean that they are going to be good









It's all fine and well if you can have a build lined up that you can execute to the second perfectly, but if it's a crap build for your situation, a crap build against what you are facing and a crap build from the data you could've / should've gathered from certain key events during the game then it doesn't matter how good your mechanics are you will lose because of the rest of your game play being crap.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> His mechanics are highly, highly overrated. He just came in with Marine splitting at a time where it was very rarely done well. And he did it very well. Also look at players like NaDa or Idra, amazing mechanics but poor results. Whereas people like aLive have good mechanics, good strats, and good results.
> Not really, I have gone like 10 pylon, 14 gate by mistake and still beaten a high level master league player because I simply out strategised him in what I did, decision making and game sense. Mechanics are a large part, but about as equally large as any other part. For example, you cannot go marine-tank in a TvP and just try to rely on your mechanics to save you, no matter who you are.
> A lot of the game is knowing what to do AND how to execute it. Also you used MKP as an example, but he hasn't won as much as people such as NesTea, MVP or MC. Those 3 people are a prime example for a great combination of mechanics, decision-making, strategies, great build line-ups, etc. thus they are very good.
> And as for unique strategies, they may be unique, but doesn't mean that they are going to be good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fine and well if you can have a build lined up that you can execute to the second perfectly, but if it's a crap build for your situation, a crap build against what you are facing and a crap build from the data you could've / should've gathered from certain key events during the game then it doesn't matter how good your mechanics are you will lose because of the rest of your game play being crap.


Well the reason why Nada and Idra lose a lot is actually because they're mechanically not as good as players such as MVP or MKP. Strats are generally the same across the board so they're really a moot point. As an example, the standard go to "strat" right now TvZ is 6 hellion into triple OC into standard play. Terrans also have a few other builds that they can go with but it really just comes down to mechanics and how good your multi tasking is. It's the same with all of the races. That's why the players with the highest apm tend to win most of the time. They rely on strong mechanics/multi tasking. Strategy has almost nothing to do with it once you reach a high level.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> His mechanics are highly, highly overrated. He just came in with Marine splitting at a time where it was very rarely done well. And he did it very well. Also look at players like NaDa or Idra, amazing mechanics but poor results. Whereas people like aLive have good mechanics, good strats, and good results.
> Not really, I have gone like 10 pylon, 14 gate by mistake and still beaten a high level master league player because I simply out strategised him in what I did, decision making and game sense. Mechanics are a large part, but about as equally large as any other part. For example, you cannot go marine-tank in a TvP and just try to rely on your mechanics to save you, no matter who you are.
> A lot of the game is knowing what to do AND how to execute it. Also you used MKP as an example, but he hasn't won as much as people such as NesTea, MVP or MC. Those 3 people are a prime example for a great combination of mechanics, decision-making, strategies, great build line-ups, etc. thus they are very good.
> And as for unique strategies, they may be unique, but doesn't mean that they are going to be good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fine and well if you can have a build lined up that you can execute to the second perfectly, but if it's a crap build for your situation, a crap build against what you are facing and a crap build from the data you could've / should've gathered from certain key events during the game then it doesn't matter how good your mechanics are you will lose because of the rest of your game play being crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the reason why Nada and Idra lose a lot is actually because they're mechanically not as good as players such as MVP or MKP. Strats are generally the same across the board so they're really a moot point. As an example, the standard go to "strat" right now TvZ is 6 hellion into triple OC into standard play. Terrans also have a few other builds that they can go with but it really just comes down to mechanics and how good your multi tasking is. It's the same with all of the races. That's why the players with the highest apm tend to win most of the time. They rely on strong mechanics/multi tasking. Strategy has almost nothing to do with it once you reach a high level.
Click to expand...

Nope. You should really pay attention to what the players are actually doing then, and the many differences between the openings and/or patterns related to the maps/players. If 6 hellions, double fast expo is standard on a map maybe it is because it's good? Also APM doesn't mean much, it just should be above a certain level and once it is it really doesn't matter. And Idra's mechanics are very good, he easily keeps up with top-tier zergs in macro games. But you also suggest that everyone plays very similarly, when they don't. Go look at aLive, Gumiho and MKP. NesTea, DRG and Leenock. MC, Naniwa and Genius (Puzzle too). You can easily spot the differences in what they do, and how well it turns out. Openers may look the same but timings vary greatly. 6 Hellion may be made with a reactor straight after each other, or just 2 made for map dominance then another 2/4 made to kill creep tumours / deny a third etc. There is a lot more involved than you think.


----------



## DoomDash

I really think mechanics have little to do with it. I don't lose because I have inferior mechanics generally, I lose because of a mistake, whether it be strategy or control. This game is far more based on your mind and how quickly you can think of the right solutions for each case. I remember games I've won because of one quick decision I made, and games I've lost for decisions that were equally as bad. All you need to know the difference between how a mid-master mind works and a pro player is to hear what he thinks at what time in the game. For me I can think of a lot of possibilities and analyze things well for my level, but these pros are on entirely different level. I personally think that for me I am more held back by the strategy aspect of the game, not the mechanics of it.

This game is super deep, if you don't see it you are under thinking it and I think that's exclusive to you. I've also been playing high level competitive Tekken for 8 years now. The best two players in the state are on an entirely different level of strategy and play than me, and I'm 4th best in the state. The skill gaps in terms of how you see the strategy of the game are pretty huge. Just think about the last time I've tried to listen to a platinum player come up with SC2 strategies or ideas, to us masters it sounds completely false and bogus, the same thing can be said about GM / Pros to Masters in most cases IMO.

Also I've spent a ton of time playing Tekken, probably more than most people, but there are a few people out there who are just gifted and can play it better than me with out putting the time I do into it. I believe hard work helps a lot, but their are prodigies out there.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope. You should really pay attention to what the players are actually doing then, and the many differences between the openings and/or patterns related to the maps/players. If 6 hellions, double fast expo is standard on a map maybe it is because it's good? Also APM doesn't mean much, it just should be above a certain level and once it is it really doesn't matter. And Idra's mechanics are very good, he easily keeps up with top-tier zergs in macro games. But you also suggest that everyone plays very similarly, when they don't. Go look at aLive, Gumiho and MKP. NesTea, DRG and Leenock. MC, Naniwa and Genius (Puzzle too). You can easily spot the differences in what they do, and how well it turns out. Openers may look the same but timings vary greatly. 6 Hellion may be made with a reactor straight after each other, or just 2 made for map dominance then another 2/4 made to kill creep tumours / deny a third etc. There is a lot more involved than you think.


All of those players might have builds that vary from each only only by a little bit but in the end it truly does come down to mechanics and apm. If a player can rely on having extremely good control/mechanics than he can do pretty much whatever he wants to and wins as long as its considered "standard".


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nope. You should really pay attention to what the players are actually doing then, and the many differences between the openings and/or patterns related to the maps/players. If 6 hellions, double fast expo is standard on a map maybe it is because it's good? Also APM doesn't mean much, it just should be above a certain level and once it is it really doesn't matter. And Idra's mechanics are very good, he easily keeps up with top-tier zergs in macro games. But you also suggest that everyone plays very similarly, when they don't. Go look at aLive, Gumiho and MKP. NesTea, DRG and Leenock. MC, Naniwa and Genius (Puzzle too). You can easily spot the differences in what they do, and how well it turns out. Openers may look the same but timings vary greatly. 6 Hellion may be made with a reactor straight after each other, or just 2 made for map dominance then another 2/4 made to kill creep tumours / deny a third etc. There is a lot more involved than you think.
> 
> 
> 
> All of those players might have builds that vary from each only only by a little bit but in the end it truly does come down to mechanics and apm. If a player can rely on having extremely good control/mechanics than he can do pretty much whatever he wants to and wins as long as its considered "standard".
Click to expand...

I really don't have time to keep telling you how wrong you are so just go watch the GSL / streams / MLG and learn. Basically if you think there is a direct correlation between APM and skill then you have a lot to learn.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> All of those players might have builds that vary from each only only by a little bit but in the end it truly does come down to mechanics and apm. If a player can rely on having extremely good control/mechanics than he can do pretty much whatever he wants to and wins as long as its considered "standard".


Look at Thorzain, that guy made many builds into standard builds. Right now he is playing Polt with superior mechanics and is 2-1 at Dream hack finals.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i finally left bronze, im rank 1 in silver now facing top golds and mid plats.... i smell promotion soon..
> http://sc2ranks.com/div/278715/


Your diamond avatar pic sure as hell fooled me


----------



## DoomDash

Thorzain!!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

I actually have to agree with Mwarren to some extent that mechanics is the main limiting factor in SC2. I don't agree that strategy is non-existent, but you need a good mechanics to execute the strategy. On the other hand you don't need a good strategy to place high with good mechanics. Is mass queens a good strategy? I'd argue, yet Destiny made diamond with it. You'd think that casters watching and analysing so many games would get some decent understanding of the game, yet there are very few in masters and above, because they can't translate this knowledge into their play with poor mechanics.

From my experience I feel like I lose much more games because of my mechanics than because of strategy. Eg. I misplace a forcefield, don't spot a drop on time, my macro slips while there's an aggression, I fail to defend multi-pronged attacks well enough, my timing is off, I miss some scouting information because I fail to control my observer being busy doing something else, I misclick, mispress, misselect etc. I rarely have games when I think to myself: "What a great strategy by my opponent. I couldn't have won that even with the greatest control and perfect macro".

A related thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327898


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I actually have to agree with Mwarren to some extent that mechanics is the main limiting factor in SC2. I don't agree that strategy is non-existent, but you need a good mechanics to execute the strategy. On the other hand you don't need a good strategy to place high with good mechanics. Is mass queens a good strategy? I'd argue, yet Destiny made diamond with it. You'd think that casters watching and analysing so many games would get some decent understanding of the game, yet there are very few in masters and above, because they can't translate this knowledge into their play with poor mechanics.
> From my experience I feel like I lose much more games because of my mechanics than because of strategy. Eg. I misplace a forcefield, don't spot a drop on time, my macro slips while there's an aggression, I fail to defend multi-pronged attacks well enough, my timing is off, I miss some scouting information because I fail to control my observer being busy doing something else, I misclick, mispress, misselect etc. I rarely have games when I think to myself: "What a great strategy by my opponent. I couldn't have won that even with the greatest control and perfect macro".
> A related thread:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327898


Ditto. I almost never lose anymore due to a superior strategy being used against me. I'd say at least 95% of my losses were due to my mechanics and not strategy. TvZ it can come down to not splitting my marines and target firing banelings with my tanks, or going fast 3 OC but not getting out 3 base production fast enough so I end up floating too much and letting the zerg outmacro me, tvp and tvt its the same thing. Just not getting off key emps, getting out macroed, etc.


----------



## Sainesk

of the last 8 games I played 6 have been mirror matches, mostly TvT. Yay tank wars...







I wonder if a Marauder Viking heavy force with some Marines and Medivacs would do well, turtle games aren't fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I know I win games via tactics a large portion of the time. I think that mechanics are important as heck, but good tactics I would say are nearly as important. White-ra, special tactics.. dude his APM sucks, and he can beat some of the best. The data from that thread just shows not only do koreans have the tactics, they also have the APM. The reason they win isn't one or the other, it's both. If you have two people that make = choices, but one has better mechanics, it's pretty obvious the mechanical advantage player will probably win. But if you have = mechanics and one person has a better strategy, it's the same.

That and I've played PLENTY of people with far better mechanics than me and won.


----------



## avaya

If you want more strategy and less mechanics, play protoss. Not trying to troll.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i think only the non-real time strat games are true strat games because you are allow to think forever and your plan is really the only thing that matters.
> when time is a highly limiting factor, the focus of the game shifts dramatically
> congrats!!
> were you the protoss guy that played me about a month ago?
> meh, not a surprise


hey,, i don´t remember mate.. see ya in ocn channel


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Your diamond avatar pic sure as hell fooled me


well that´s my goal.. diamond in this season..


----------



## DoomDash

I got demoted in Korea, Platinum again. Arg.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I got demoted in Korea, Platinum again. Arg.


I thought you had it going pretty well, whatever happened?


----------



## Fortunex

I don't think a build order or unit composition is a significant piece of strategy, that's just basic openings and counters, strategy comes in later in the game when you have to predict drops, decide when and how to attack or defend, decide whether to get that extra gas or not, two prong or force the center, etc.

Just because many people use the same strong general game plan doesn't mean it's not a strategy game. People are constantly trying new timings and figuring out counters or ways to slow down currently strong builds, and especially in the lower leagues where everyone's mechanics suck, strategy plays a bigger part.

If every strategy possible has been gone through and a only couple of the best ones are used, with no variation between them, it'll start being purely mechanical. But until people stop coming up with new things, it will continue to be a strategy game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I thought you had it going pretty well, whatever happened?


I was doing awesome, but there may have been a few reasons for that.

A) I was dominating TvZ, at least at platinum MMR.

B) I was dominating TvT, though I got it rarely compared to TvZ.

C) I got almost NO TvP, and when I did they were all close and about even, at Platinum MMR.

I feel like a lot of the Diamond players they were giving me were low diamond or on a loss streak, because honestly it was super easy at the time. After I got promoted to Diamond things went down hill fast, I didn't do that well. I kept getting more TvP, which I lose majority of the time ( if you can't tell by my previous posts ), I stopped beating Zergs because their skill level was much higher, and a lot of my TvT's I dropped because of some seriously impeccable timing attack / cheese or I would get too many in a row and attempt an all in out of mental exhaustion.

Now I would say besides TvP my TvT and TvZ are stabilizing. My TvT I've learned to refine my mech build to be safe to these all ins / timings, and my TvZ I've been phasing into mech again, with pretty good success. I think in todays day and age mech is better in the TvZ meta game.

I still use the TvZ bfh opener that LZgamer taught me and I love it.


----------



## avaya

Doomdash- Why are you playing on Korean instead of North America? If you are in US, isn't latency worse? We should practice tvp if you are on NA.


----------



## Alex132

Latency is an issue for me playing on NA from South Africa, but not so much KR from South Africa. I guess it's closer? The difference is like 300ms ping, (about 700-2000ms ping to NA and about 600-1500 to KR)


----------



## 13321G4

I would never be able to play with such a latency.

On the topic of strategy vs pure mechanics, if you do a standard strategy, expect a standard response. I like doing the unusual to throw of the opponent. It is not often you see phoenixes in PvP and I'm refining White-ra's PvZ FFE into carriers. All I need now is some PvT inspiration. I'm considering dt's because they are awesome but not sure, might be too gimmicky. And orbital command OP.

Any ideas?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would never be able to play with such a latency.
> 
> On the topic of strategy vs pure mechanics, if you do a standard strategy, expect a standard response. I like doing the unusual to throw of the opponent. It is not often you see phoenixes in PvP and I'm refining White-ra's PvZ FFE into carriers. All I need now is some PvT inspiration. I'm considering dt's because they are awesome but not sure, might be too gimmicky. And orbital command OP.
> 
> Any ideas?


PvT is easy, if you're facing a non-aggressive Terran (LOLWAT) that won't put on pressure with 1 rax, bunkers or an early push then 1 gate expand into gate robo gate (and other stuff) is good. Otherwise 3 gate expand. To play safe you should get a robo after that too. I normally just change my strategy from then on depending on what I see. I could go up to colosi or take a fast-ish third. Don't forget with Terran that ~10-13 minutes you will get dropped. Late game a cannon + HT is brilliant for stopping drops. Feedback the medivac and let the cannon kill off the few marines etc that fell from it. Also note - once you're maxed out and it looks like there won't be an engagement soonish then make like 10-20 gates to remax your army.

I don't really have any builds on hand, I haven't even played in like 3 weeks.

Also I find FFE really dumb. It is basically only done on large maps, and if you're doing it then you are being really defensive. I have just gone 1 gate double expo before and it works a lot nicer. Or you can try 3 gate robo push with some immortals or maybe a 4 gate robo all-in. But basically FFE is overrated unless you can execute it amazingly IMO.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would never be able to play with such a latency.
> On the topic of strategy vs pure mechanics, if you do a standard strategy, expect a standard response. I like doing the unusual to throw of the opponent. It is not often you see phoenixes in PvP and I'm refining White-ra's PvZ FFE into carriers. All I need now is some PvT inspiration. I'm considering dt's because they are awesome but not sure, might be too gimmicky. And orbital command OP.
> Any ideas?


Phoenix was common in beta and early sc2 seasons pvt, but is rare enough now that you could probably refine something that is viable (and I'm surprised phoenix got the range upgrade in season 6 and still no one seemed to use it). Maybe combine it with the recent cannon fast expand that is popular pvt now, something like:

17 nexus
18 forge
18 pylon
18 gateway
20 cannon (at top of expo ramp)
21 2x gas
23 pylon
24 zealot
26 cy core
27 sentry, pylon, +1 armor
28 2x more gates, 2x more gas
30 starport into 4x phoenix and chargelots
40 citadel and phoenix range research and 4x more gates

I bet you could find a timing with ~8 +1 ranged phoenix and ~25 +1/+1 chargelots.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Doomdash- Why are you playing on Korean instead of North America? If you are in US, isn't latency worse? We should practice tvp if you are on NA.


I am mostly on Korea, but I can hop on NA for practice. Add me ( see sig ).

The lag is generally not so bad.


----------



## Yukss

bronze korean players beats and wipe the floor all golds in NA ,LA (my guess)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> bronze korean players beats and wipe the floor all golds in NA ,LA (my guess)


i find it hard to believe. lol. unless they are low silver in bronze. haha


----------



## DoomDash

Korea is only 1 - 1.5 league difference IMO.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Korea is only 1 - 1.5 league difference IMO.


I concur.


----------



## Sainesk

How do you scout/counter 1-1-1 as P? starting to face some diamond T players on ladder...

I think PvT is my worst MU


----------



## CravinR1

Put down a robotics by 6:15 so you can have a obs for cloak banshees

1 gate fast expand will give u the economy to beat 1-1-1

1 gas 1 gate fe

Then get your second gas, drop 2 more gates, then get robotics by 6:15


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Put down a robotics by 6:15 so you can have a obs for cloak banshees
> 1 gate fast expand will give u the economy to beat 1-1-1
> 1 gas 1 gate fe
> Then get your second gas, drop 2 more gates, then get robotics by 6:15


assuming you aren't blind countering, at which point do expect to scout the 1-1-1 in order to use this build?

I assume you need to scout it right before the FE?


----------



## CravinR1

I blind open 1 gate fe no matter what build terran goes. Just put your chrono into your units and warp

I open with zealot, stalker, sentry, expo, second gas, pylon, 2 more gates


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> How do you scout/counter 1-1-1 as P? starting to face some diamond T players on ladder...
> I think PvT is my worst MU


If you're opening with 1 gate FE, assuming you've scouted gas from terran, you can poke up his ramp just after placing the nexus. If you see a reactor being build or a bunker that likely means a 1/1/1 or another tech build. The key to hold it then is to cut probes around 30-35, go up to 5-6 gateways and go zealot heavy with some sentries and immortals. The problem is if terran delays his push and attacks around 11-12 minutes with ridiculous number of marines. You're gateway units will just melt so you need colossus by then. I usually get a robo bay around 8 minutes and if I see terran moving out early I just cancel it and chrono units. Here's a guide on a good opening with some scouting hints:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136


----------



## avaya

There are many varieties of 1:1:1, but at mid to high masters level on NA I have found it effective to go super greedy for templar tech (with fast 4x gas and almsot no army until about 7 minute mark). It's something like:

In this order: 1gate FE, cy core, 4x gas, robo bay (for observers), 2x sentry, citadel, forge, templar archives, 8x more gatways, +1 armor research, storm research, chargelot research.

Note: if the observer scouts a tech lab on the factory, then still go for same build except all chrono goes to immortals and only need 6 gateways (usually get chargelot upgrade before storm upgrade as well). They key is not making too many stalkers (I usually have 2 or less).

edit- I'd like to see how colossus could hold this. Seems like the 11 minute push has too many banshee for colossus to have a chance.


----------



## HometownHero

I have no interest in playing TvP straight up anymore. Its silly. Whats the best all-in I can run against Protoss nowadays.


----------



## Twistacles

The most effective allin vs P for me is to go

3 hellion drop into 1-1-1.

If he did nexus first or 1gate fe you can sometimes nail a ****ton of probes and roll him over with 1-1-1. If youre close air positions its beastly


----------



## Alex132

Hellions? LOL no, sentries~


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hellions? LOL no, sentries~


Yeah but he said hellion drop. Sentries usually by the ramp?


----------



## avaya

If protoss stays on 1 base until warp gate is up then terran just gonna die with hellion drop... so might not be a good at bronze/silver/gold level.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I have no interest in playing TvP straight up anymore. Its silly. Whats the best all-in I can run against Protoss nowadays.


You can try my marine thor all in from a few pages back. Yeah the MU is dumb IMO.

Anyone watch partings games last night? I hear they were ridiculous.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hellions? LOL no, sentries~
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but he said hellion drop. Sentries usually by the ramp?
Click to expand...

Oh didnt read that, was at school being harassed by a friend when I typed that out


----------



## HometownHero

Just watched the rep and I liked the overall feel for that strategy. Have you ever gone 1-1 for bio upgrades instead of 1-1 Thor upgrades?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Just watched the rep and I liked the overall feel for that strategy. Have you ever gone 1-1 for bio upgrades instead of 1-1 Thor upgrades?


No I haven't. I could see +1 armor for thor, and +1 weapons for bio being good since you want the thors to tank and marines for dps.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah the MU is dumb IMO.


I haven't faced many competitive P players around my league and find the late game easy to win as T







if they colossi I just pull back my marines and let the vikings kill them while my marauders get some love/draw fire from the stalkers. Throw in some ghosts with EMP/make them instead of vikings if they go HT. Throw in a PDD and I'm surprised if I lose more than half my army supply in a maxed battle.
Now i'm sure if I faced someone a bit higher (like yks for example) i'd get rolled since he'd know to feedback PDDs and such.

I think what's currently wrong with P amongst other things (FF) is the reliance on the HT - it counters nearly everything T has, but without it in the late game I doubt P would stand a chance.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I only know things from my own MMR.


----------



## Ghooble

Has anybody tried 3gate expand, robo + collosus against Zerg? I've been using that (albeit high silver







) and it seems to work pretty well. But I'm not quite sure what I'll do vs muta except stalkers and maybe grab blink or something when I get the twilight for ups. Any tips/advice is appreciated


----------



## 13321G4

Push when you see he is going muta. The base race will go in you favour easily.

Muta is the reason I prefer going high templar. It allows you to get cannons+storm against muta's and storm is IMO better AOE than collosi. It does however cost a ton more gas, so it is not all that easy :-(


----------



## Sainesk

every Diamond Protoss I face 4 gates. So sad... might actually have to veto one of my fave maps - Altar. Unless I 4 gate too there's hardly a chance of holding it as P without a ramp.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> every Diamond Protoss I face 4 gates. So sad... might actually have to veto one of my fave maps - Altar. Unless I 4 gate too there's hardly a chance of holding it as P without a ramp.


3 Gate expand / Defensive 4 gate


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> every Diamond Protoss I face 4 gates. So sad... might actually have to veto one of my fave maps - Altar. Unless I 4 gate too there's hardly a chance of holding it as P without a ramp.


I have TA veto'ed for this very reason. Holding a 4 gate is not so difficult nowadays though even with 1 gate tech builds.


----------



## avaya

I thought 1 gate robo beats 4gate? I haven't seen a good ol fashioned 20 probe 4 gate in at least 100 pvp's so maybe I'm wrong. I sometimes lose to the KR 4gate (10pylon, 10gate, only mine 50 gas), but it's almost always due to being too greedy with my probe mining time and not scouting/killing enough with probes from 4m30s to 5m 30s


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I thought 1 gate robo beats 4gate? I haven't seen a good ol fashioned 20 probe 4 gate in at least 100 pvp's so maybe I'm wrong. I sometimes lose to the KR 4gate (10pylon, 10gate, only mine 50 gas), but it's almost always due to being too greedy with my probe mining time and not scouting/killing enough with probes from 4m30s to 5m 30s


I've never lost to a 1 gate robo before when I 4gate. I guess it'd depend on how good your 4gate is as in when it hits. Mine hits at ~6:04 as of my last 2 matches. 2 gate robo has been a harder fight for me but still not impossible. As long as I throw in a few zealots that I have target the immortals I'm usually okay.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I've never lost to a 1 gate robo before when I 4gate. I guess it'd depend on how good your 4gate is as in when it hits. Mine hits at ~6:04 as of my last 2 matches. 2 gate robo has been a harder fight for me but still not impossible. As long as I throw in a few zealots that I have target the immortals I'm usually okay.


We should practice. What is your bnet name?

Is there an OC chat room everyone uses? If not, how does "OCnet" sound?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> We should practice. What is your bnet name?
> Is there an OC chat room everyone uses? If not, how does "OCnet" sound?


yes, it's just overclock.net . I used to idle in there 24/7 before I played mainly on korea.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> yes, it's just overclock.net . I used to idle in there 24/7 before I played mainly on korea.


I've had you added for a while but last I checked you hadn't been online in NA for 4 or 5 days.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> We should practice. What is your bnet name?
> Is there an OC chat room everyone uses? If not, how does "OCnet" sound?


Ghooble -- 212 I would love to practice


----------



## CravinR1

Anyone ever tried the Day9 funday Monday?

Here is my submission for cannon rushing. I missed the guy calling Day9 gay







I thought he was saying Day9 was mondays lol

Regardless here it is:

Cloud Kingdom LE (13).zip 11k .zip file


----------



## sepheroth003

I stopped being cheap and bought S1 GSTL. Only on the second matchup so far but it's good. I don't much care for Khaldor, Moletrap is pretty good though. My buddy said Artosis will be later in the season. Hopefully after I watch this one, I'll watch a more current one.


----------



## Anti!!

TSL4 is inc!!

Also Ghooble! Im sorry I didnt get your message for 1v1.







I got preoccupied then when i got back and saw you messaged me you had already left. Sorry. Its rare i play too. I hate that..


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> TSL4 is inc!!
> Also Ghooble! Im sorry I didnt get your message for 1v1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got preoccupied then when i got back and saw you messaged me you had already left. Sorry. Its rare i play too. I hate that..


I'll play a few right now if you're on


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm thinking about giving up SC2 for a while. I have a lot of stuff going on IRL at the moment and barely have an hour to play a day. Haven't played for last two weeks at all. Now going for a holiday for another 2 weeks so that'll be a month. Plus I have like 4 or 5 games that I haven't started because of lack of time and putting any spare time I had into SC2. Overall it just ends up with me getting frustrated because of underperforming caused by the lack of practice.

For you guys that have had long breaks before, how difficult it was to go back to your previous skill level after several months off?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'm thinking about giving up SC2 for a while. I have a lot of stuff going on IRL at the moment and barely have an hour to play a day. Haven't played for last two weeks at all. Now going for a holiday for another 2 weeks so that'll be a month. Plus I have like 4 or 5 games that I haven't started because of lack of time and putting any spare time I had into SC2. Overall it just ends up with me getting frustrated because of underperforming caused by the lack of practice.
> For you guys that have had long breaks before, how difficult it was to go back to your previous skill level after several months off?


Just hope the meta game doesnt shift too badly and it wont be that big a deal. I took a two month break around November-December and it was hell trying to win a game for awhile.


----------



## Anti!!

Its miserable... i cant practice ever either. So i just camp at platimun league so that when i brush up on my macro in a game or two i can actually win. The meta has changed so much i cant ever yave the time to catch back up. So i have just accepted the fact..


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> For you guys that have had long breaks before, how difficult it was to go back to your previous skill level after several months off?


I took S6 off pretty much, I feel I got back to around my level in under 2 weeks. Also, something just snapped and I felt I could play and understand P all of a sudden (my weakest race), but now some of that magic is wearing off







so I need to keep working on it...

I think it varies with each person though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'm thinking about giving up SC2 for a while. I have a lot of stuff going on IRL at the moment and barely have an hour to play a day. Haven't played for last two weeks at all. Now going for a holiday for another 2 weeks so that'll be a month. Plus I have like 4 or 5 games that I haven't started because of lack of time and putting any spare time I had into SC2. Overall it just ends up with me getting frustrated because of underperforming caused by the lack of practice.
> For you guys that have had long breaks before, how difficult it was to go back to your previous skill level after several months off?


I took six months off and although I feel my skills are exactly where they were before or close, the MMR I am at or was at seems better now. Don't expect to come back and get back to the exact same spot, that's where I'm at.

You should try and just play once a week imo.


----------



## Nethermir

search "zerg rush" in google










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> search "zerg rush" in google





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Pretty tiring, makes me feel like I have cherry black switches in my mice, though it's my preferred switch for SC2 my right hand just isn't used to it...


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty tiring, makes me feel like I have cherry black switches in my mice, though it's my preferred switch for SC2 my right hand just isn't used to it...


I saw this rofl. Why are they doing it today? What's significant?


----------



## DoomDash

Will probably always be there, I hope.


----------



## DoomDash

http://kotaku.com/5905892/starcraft-iis-heart-of-the-swarm-to-make-its-multiplayer-debut-at-mlg-in-june


----------



## iARDAs

Hey guys

I am thinking of grabbing Starcraft 2 for singleplayer

How is it? is it lengthy? would it hook me up?

Is it a good investment to purchase Starcraft 2 solely for Single player campaign?


----------



## CravinR1

Single player SC2 is OK, but the online is free and alot more than 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4

Alot of custom maps you can play


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Single player SC2 is OK, but the online is free and alot more than 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4
> Alot of custom maps you can play


The thing is although i play lots of games online, my past experience in strategy games were bad. I was always getting owned as people are playing these games like machines. I could play multi but I would have my ass handed to me pretty much every single game.

But all my RTS online experience was 1 vs 1.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> The thing is although i play lots of games online, my past experience in strategy games were bad. I was always getting owned as people are playing these games like machines. I could play multi but I would have my ass handed to me pretty much every single game.
> 
> But all my RTS online experience was 1 vs 1.


Yea, but starcraft multiplayer is the most fun I have ever had in online rts gameplay, and now with the league system you are likely to not meet peeps that can bash you all the time. PLUS!!! you have us to help you get up to speed. That shouldnt take much since you will start in bronze. The campaign is ok. Its only sentimental to those that played the sc1 and BW campaigns and want to see what raynor does next. I love Blizzard story lines.







But for what it is the campaign was well put together. But it doesnt warrant a replay through. IMO. BUT the Online does.

There are a lot of laid back custom games also.


----------



## iARDAs

Ok guys I finally purchased the game via battlelog battle.net









In steam and origin my download speeds were always maxed but battlelog seems very slow. Any tips?


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Ok guys I finally purchased the game via battlelog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In steam and origin my download speeds were always maxed but battlelog seems very slow. Any tips?


Battlelog as in the Origin service thing? I would have used Amazon or something considering I hate Origin and the game costs $48 on Amazon right now


----------



## DoomDash

I thought SCII single player was very fun. Not as good as MP but that's to be expected.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Battlelog as in the Origin service thing? I would have used Amazon or something considering I hate Origin and the game costs $48 on Amazon right now


Sorry bro I meant to say BATTLE.NET 

I got the game for 40 Euros. Not so bad actually.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I could play multi but I would have my ass handed to me pretty much every single game.


If that's the only reason you want to avoid multi...

I'm sure i'm not the only one here that has horrible days where I go on a losing streak (sometimes 10 losses in a row) thanks to silly mistakes like hotkey all my Orbitals to one key then accidentally lift them all off and not realize since I was microing my army, or going slingfestor and engaging at a choke point and losing since my lings can't get a surround etc.

As much as it can be discouraging, you learn far more from your losses than wins. On horrible days, take a break and watch casters/tournament players/replays if you feel like it for inspiration and ways to improve.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Sorry bro I meant to say BATTLE.NET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the game for 40 Euros. Not so bad actually.


If im not mistaken when you are downloading the game through blizz downloader there is an option to disable peer to peer. Then it will download straight from the server. And viola.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> If that's the only reason you want to avoid multi...
> I'm sure i'm not the only one here that has horrible days where I go on a losing streak (sometimes 10 losses in a row) thanks to silly mistakes like hotkey all my Orbitals to one key then accidentally lift them all off and not realize since I was microing my army, or going slingfestor and engaging at a choke point and losing since my lings can't get a surround etc.
> As much as it can be discouraging, you learn far more from your losses than wins. On horrible days, take a break and watch casters/tournament players/replays if you feel like it for inspiration and ways to improve.


I will definitely give the multi a go but its been ages since I played RTS games so i will give the SP a shot first. Anywhere I can catch up on the story from Starcraft 1? I had played it ages ago but cant remember. Something short would be nice. Not too many details.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> If im not mistaken when you are downloading the game through blizz downloader there is an option to disable peer to peer. Then it will download straight from the server. And viola.


Thank you  I had peer tp peer enabled and i downloaded 2 gbs in like 4 hours. Now it is disabled and the download is much faster. I wish i knew this sooner.


----------



## iARDAs

If I close the Blizzard Downloader, would it resume later or start from all over?


----------



## CravinR1

Resume later (at least the updates do so I assume it works the same)


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> If I close the Blizzard Downloader, would it resume later or start from all over?


Resume.

On another note, I really do think that the skill difference between EU and KR is a lot closer than NA and KR.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Resume.
> On another note, I really do think that the skill difference between EU and KR is a lot closer than NA and KR.


From what I've seen EU pretty much = NA. I actually haven't seen an EU player of similar rank that is better than an NA player consistently


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> From what I've seen EU pretty much = NA. I actually haven't seen an EU player of similar rank that is better than an NA player consistently


KR>EU>NA








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I will definitely give the multi a go but its been ages since I played RTS games so i will give the SP a shot first. Anywhere I can catch up on the story from Starcraft 1? I had played it ages ago but cant remember. Something short would be nice. Not too many details.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had peer tp peer enabled and i downloaded 2 gbs in like 4 hours. Now it is disabled and the download is much faster. I wish i knew this sooner.


Your welcome.


----------



## Anti!!

FRICCCKK


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> KR>EU>NA


I used to think that but lately my mind has begun to believe KR>EU=NA


----------



## DoomDash

KR>NA=EU is most accurate.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> KR>NA=EU is most accurate.


How is that more accurate than mine lol


----------



## DoomDash

I was agreeing with you.

Also, so most the top BW players are rumored to be coming to SCII soon....

https://twitter.com/#!/mbCARMAC/status/196687023988420608

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333180

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332406

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332651

along with kespa getting into scii, and hots beta at an mlg in june.

Things are looking good for SCII fans....


----------



## Ghooble

Flash is coming. I excite bro.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> KR>NA=EU is most accurate.


Hmmm, just wondering then howcome you are diamond/plat in KR and Masters in NA? Whereas my friend is Masters in EU and KR? (~Top 8 for EU, ~Top 50 for KR)


----------



## iARDAs

When I start playing this game the standings will be

EU > KR > US


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hmmm, just wondering then howcome you are diamond/plat in KR and Masters in NA? Whereas my friend is Masters in EU and KR? (~Top 8 for EU, ~Top 50 for KR)


He stopped playing for months and there is more lag from here to korea than for you guys to korea


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hmmm, just wondering then howcome you are diamond/plat in KR and Masters in NA? Whereas my friend is Masters in EU and KR? (~Top 8 for EU, ~Top 50 for KR)
> 
> 
> 
> He stopped playing for months and there is more lag from here to korea than for you guys to korea
Click to expand...

The lag is a good point actually.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> He stopped playing for months and there is more lag from here to korea than for you guys to korea


The lag is worse from EU actually.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I was agreeing with you.
> Also, so most the top BW players are rumored to be coming to SCII soon....
> https://twitter.com/#!/mbCARMAC/status/196687023988420608
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333180
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332406
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332651
> along with kespa getting into scii, and hots beta at an mlg in june.
> Things are looking good for SCII fans....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Hmmm, just wondering then howcome you are diamond/plat in KR and Masters in NA? Whereas my friend is Masters in EU and KR? (~Top 8 for EU, ~Top 50 for KR)


Look at my record on NA masters this season, 10-15, not too hot. I would say I'm borderline high Diamond or low masters in NA right now. Rather depressing for me since I was always mid-high before... but anyway I am low diamond high plat in Korea, so really I'm almost in the same league. If I wasn't recently demoted in Korea, and if I kept playing in NA, who knows I could be in the very same league. I am still rusty from that six months off... well I wouldn't say rusty, but I am definitely behind.

All I know is I've played lots of EU players on the Korean server that are masters and I've beaten most of them. I believe the whole KR>EU>NA thing for sure at top 200 level, but at mine no way.


----------



## avaya

I played a rank #1 masters for the first time last night... and won









It was on Cloud Kingdom pvp (which is the ultimate cheese map pvp) and he tried to do the pylon wall + cannon flush/behind my mineral line. He got the 3 pylons up without me getting probes in, but the mineral layout on that map allows 4-probe surface area attacking one of the pylons. Busted the pylon right my zealot came out and the cannon came online with about 40hp of damage so it only killed 1 probe.

Seems like ladder matching has been giving a wider range recently cause I'm also getting placed against rank 30 or 40. In the past all the games would be against a tighter range of ranked opponents.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


lol! nice to not have that problem...


----------



## Anti!!

Blizzard announced they would broaden the matching range so that the league matches would not be so brutal to those who cant practice regularly. I dont like it personally. Andi dont practice normally. Dont wanna face golds while in high plat..


----------



## Ghooble

I feel like I'm going to be promoted soon. Been top 8 silver for a while facing top 8 gold and winning. Are the leagues locked or do I just have to win more?

Also another question. When is a good 4 gate time? Mine hits between ~5:55 - ~6:10 depending on if I mess up a bit.


----------



## genji

I haven't played SC2 since when it first came out, because of school and life, but I now have the time to get back into it, and I was wondering if anyone would be nice enough to play a few tutorial games with me, and tell me what to work on. I was bronze when I first started, and copper in the beta lol I am bad at the game, but I want to improve before the heart of the swarm comes out. My username on steam is genji_takaya and my battle.net ID for SC2 is genji character code is 752. Thanks! I'll be on for the next few hours


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *genji*
> 
> I haven't played SC2 since when it first came out, because of school and life, but I now have the time to get back into it, and I was wondering if anyone would be nice enough to play a few tutorial games with me, and tell me what to work on. I was bronze when I first started, and copper in the beta lol I am bad at the game, but I want to improve before the heart of the swarm comes out. My username on steam is genji_takaya and my battle.net ID for SC2 is genji character code is 752. Thanks! I'll be on for the next few hours


What race do you play?


----------



## genji

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What race do you play?


I only know how to play Terran, but I would like to explore others. I just was told Terran was the easiest to begin with.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *genji*
> 
> I only know how to play Terran, but I would like to explore others. *I just was told Terran was the easiest to begin with*.


That is subjective. I've done well with all 3 races but I think Zerg is easiest personally. I was able to roach max at 13minutes with having NEVER played zerg once. Which is ridiculous imo.


----------



## genji

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> That is subjective. I've done well with all 3 races but I think Zerg is easiest personally. I was able to roach max at 13minutes with having NEVER played zerg once. Which is ridiculous imo.


I'll learn whatever race someone is willing to teach me. I don't know much about strategy, or build orders, or even what works best against what. I am willing to learn though, so if you have time for a couple of tutorial matches, I'd choose zerg to learn. Thanks


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> When is a good 4 gate time? Mine hits between ~5:55 - ~6:10 depending on if I mess up a bit.


5:34 is when the first round of warp-ins should happen, so by 6:10 ish you should have something like 8 stalkers + 3 zealots total. Basically the person with more stalkers usually wins so snipe theirs first, and ignore/kite their zealots.
Though it is a very cheesy build - your economy is way behind if your opponent didn't cheese/4 gate too.

I'm mainly trying a FFE variation in PvP these days, though the biggest danger is if I don't snipe a drop to my main. If I spot a 4 gate, I can cut probes too, throw down a ton of cannons, and still be up a nexus; if it's a robo build I can get out sentries to FF most of the zealots in front of the cannons and target fire the immortals.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *genji*
> 
> I only know how to play Terran, but I would like to explore others. I just was told Terran was the easiest to begin with.


You were told wrong lol.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I feel like I'm going to be promoted soon. Been top 8 silver for a while facing top 8 gold and winning. Are the leagues locked or do I just have to win more?
> 
> Also another question. When is a good 4 gate time? Mine hits between ~5:55 - ~6:10 depending on if I mess up a bit.


Blizzard will not promote you until you start losing. Basically they are gaging where you should be. I watched destiny do a mass queen build where he was "proving" macro was more important than composition up to platinum league. If I'm not mistaken he was promoted from bronze to platinum.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *genji*
> 
> I only know how to play Terran, but I would like to explore others. I just was told Terran was the easiest to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> You were told wrong lol.
Click to expand...

Nah it is the easiest race to begin with because of the campaign. Zerg is the hardest to play/start especially at the lower levels


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Blizzard will not promote you until you start losing. Basically they are gaging where you should be. I watched destiny do a mass queen build where he was "proving" macro was more important than composition up to platinum league. If I'm not mistaken he was promoted from bronze to platinum.


I know macro>Damn near everything in the lower leagues and that's what I've been working on but why do I need to lose to get promoted ?! If they're gaging where I should be losing would make it seem like I need to be lower than what I am.


----------



## CravinR1

In order to get promoted you have to beat your league 100% of the time and the next higher league 50% of the time


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I'm mainly trying a FFE variation in PvP these days, though the biggest danger is if I don't snipe a drop to my main. If I spot a 4 gate, I can cut probes too, throw down a ton of cannons, and still be up a nexus; if it's a robo build I can get out sentries to FF most of the zealots in front of the cannons and target fire the immortals.


Cannon fast expanding in pvp should always lose to a 4gate, on any map. 8 stalkers will beat 10 cannons and the stalkers will arrive before you have sufficient forcefields.

Edit- I played pvp's for several hours trying to make FFE work against a friends 20probe 4gate (he was in diamond league, i'm in masters), and I could never get it to hold. Shakuras is probably the best map because I could have 4 cannons and 2 sentries as he hits, but even if the forcefields perfectly capture 2 stalkers, his next round of warp in's is just too much.


----------



## CravinR1

What league are you Sainesk? I love seeing a Protoss forge FE, if I dont do 1 gate 2 robo immortal drop I'll do 5 gate with a robo for obs and a well placed pylon to warp into the main, or drop a quick expo and be ahead in tech.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> In order to get promoted you have to beat your league 100% of the time and the next higher league 50% of the time


Source?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> In order to get promoted you have to beat your league 100% of the time and the next higher league 50% of the time
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
Click to expand...

Assumption obviously.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Assumption obviously.


Yeah, seemed pretty arbitrary considering the TL post that describes Blizzard's MMR system.


----------



## Anti!!

lol

Yeah, that is false. Blizzard has already posted how to get promoted. If you are winning 12/20 games and jave 600 points or more you have a good chance to be promoted once you level out in skill.

Its just the system wont promote you if your winning 60% or more all the time. YOu have to level out at 50% win ratio for a bit before it can see where you deserve to be.

It wouldnt make sense to waste time and promote you if your still demolishing peeps.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Nah it is the easiest race to begin with because of the campaign. Zerg is the hardest to play/start especially at the lower levels


I would say Z and T are about the same, but you're right if you play the campaign Terran might be easier to understand.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Cannon fast expanding in pvp should always lose to a 4gate, on any map. 8 stalkers will beat 10 cannons and the stalkers will arrive before you have sufficient forcefields.
> Edit- I played pvp's for several hours trying to make FFE work against a friends 20probe 4gate (he was in diamond league, i'm in masters), and I could never get it to hold. Shakuras is probably the best map because I could have 4 cannons and 2 sentries as he hits, but even if the forcefields perfectly capture 2 stalkers, his next round of warp in's is just too much.


vs 4 gate I don't make sentries, only if it's a robo build. I seem to be able to hold the usual 8 stalker 3 zealot push with 7 cannons even if they focus fire my 4 pylons (If I know it's a 4 gate, I stick to 1 gate/delay it till after 7+ cannons + cut probes like the 4gater to afford so many cannons).

I'm only Plat though as random, so what do I know









edit: here's the basic build idea pretending I spotted a 4 gate vs an ai, the 7th cannon is up by 6:15. If they have an extremely close proxy pylon then the fight may be a close call.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think a proper response to FFE is 4 gate warp prism or greedy FE wothout cannons.


----------



## HometownHero

Ok, been trying out Doom's TvP Thor all-in. How can I tighten it up? I feel like I got lucky the toss decided to grab a third. Also, note his BM...

Thor all-in


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Ok, been trying out Doom's TvP Thor all-in. How can I tighten it up? I feel like I got lucky the toss decided to grab a third. Also, note his BM...
> Thor all-in


Here are my thoughts and opinions on your game.

A) The supply block was IMO the reason you didn't win outright with your push. Watch the replay again it was a terrible supply block, about 3-5 marines less than you should have because of it, and a later second thor. This means your timing is gone since this build is all about the timing.

B) You had the money / gas to start your +1 armor for the thor at the very least earlier. I didn't check the timing of the weapons for infantry but I would start that asap too.

C) I feel like your bunker was late? You kind of gave away that you weren't expanding. I would actually clear the first probe before reactor as well I think, since Reactor to me looks like a 1-1-1 ( which can kinda be countered by immortals, so you may be forcing these which you don't want ). If your bunker went up faster you may not have revealed that you didn't actually have an expansion. Again a key to this build is to deceive the protoss into thinking you FE. If you do run into that situation where you are Zealot rushed you can try and force him to follow you the other way if need be, or run around in circles near your bunker. Also you can move the marine he is chasing and only that marine to take no hits.

D) This is personal preference, but I prefer marine shield over stim for this push. 10 extra HP can last you long enough to push up the nat, as well as when you need to push up the main ( which you don't have to btw ). That's just me I don't really like hurting my own units for this all in.

E) Make sure your marines are BEHIND the thors. You basically want to chew through the zealots with the marines and when they get close they will easily die. Stalkers just don't have the DPS to kill thors being repaired, and your marines can easily be picked off in front ( or even block your thors from breaking FF's ).

F) I think you could have used 2-4 more SCV's for repair.


----------



## Alex132

Why can't I install SC1?

When I download the downloader from the website (blizzard) it tells me to enter my *26* letter CD-Key, yet my SC1 came with a 13 letter CD-Key :I

The original disk is too scratched to install


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Why can't I install SC1?
> When I download the downloader from the website (blizzard) it tells me to enter my *26* letter CD-Key, yet my SC1 came with a 13 letter CD-Key :I
> The original disk is too scratched to install


Even if your cd did work you would still need the cd key. :/

Snap i re read. Thats a blizz question i suppose. Did they email you a key with that new copy?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Here are my thoughts and opinions on your game.
> A) The supply block was IMO the reason you didn't win outright with your push. Watch the replay again it was a terrible supply block, about 3-5 marines less than you should have because of it, and a later second thor. This means your timing is gone since this build is all about the timing.
> B) You had the money / gas to start your +1 armor for the thor at the very least earlier. I didn't check the timing of the weapons for infantry but I would start that asap too.
> C) I feel like your bunker was late? You kind of gave away that you weren't expanding. I would actually clear the first probe before reactor as well I think, since Reactor to me looks like a 1-1-1 ( which can kinda be countered by immortals, so you may be forcing these which you don't want ). If your bunker went up faster you may not have revealed that you didn't actually have an expansion. Again a key to this build is to deceive the protoss into thinking you FE. If you do run into that situation where you are Zealot rushed you can try and force him to follow you the other way if need be, or run around in circles near your bunker. Also you can move the marine he is chasing and only that marine to take no hits.
> D) This is personal preference, but I prefer marine shield over stim for this push. 10 extra HP can last you long enough to push up the nat, as well as when you need to push up the main ( which you don't have to btw ). That's just me I don't really like hurting my own units for this all in.
> E) Make sure your marines are BEHIND the thors. You basically want to chew through the zealots with the marines and when they get close they will easily die. Stalkers just don't have the DPS to kill thors being repaired, and your marines can easily be picked off in front ( or even block your thors from breaking FF's ).
> F) I think you could have used 2-4 more SCV's for repair.


Thanks for the feedback. It could definitely be tighter, but there are so many zergs on the ladder that I don't practice this as much as I'd like. Combat shields do make more sense; noticed that medivacs get out a little later than normal when doing this.


----------



## roberts91

lol i just got my computer again and happened to type in the wrong password and this is what I got:



i needed that laugh and thought i would share it


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> vs 4 gate I don't make sentries, only if it's a robo build. I seem to be able to hold the usual 8 stalker 3 zealot push with 7 cannons even if they focus fire my 4 pylons (If I know it's a 4 gate, I stick to 1 gate/delay it till after 7+ cannons + cut probes like the 4gater to afford so many cannons).
> I'm only Plat though as random, so what do I know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: here's the basic build idea pretending I spotted a 4 gate vs an ai, the 7th cannon is up by 6:15. If they have an extremely close proxy pylon then the fight may be a close call.


At 6m 20s you have 7 cannons online and are starting your first gateway. Other guy could start picking off those cannons with as few as 4 stalkers. Maybe it's working with plat level meta game, but I think a lot of games will result in build order losses (like warp prism as you mentioned).


----------



## duhjuh

my strategy..."not enough minerals" ..damn it nvm


----------



## ARcaLiTE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> That is subjective. I've done well with all 3 races but I think Zerg is easiest personally. *I was able to roach max at 13minutes with having NEVER played zerg once. Which is ridiculous imo*.


Zerg is meant to max out faster than the other 2 races, when Protoss has 200/200 death ball against maxed Zerg=gg along with Terran.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARcaLiTE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> That is subjective. I've done well with all 3 races but I think Zerg is easiest personally. *I was able to roach max at 13minutes with having NEVER played zerg once. Which is ridiculous imo*.
> 
> 
> 
> Zerg is meant to max out faster than the other 2 races, when Protoss has 200/200 death ball against maxed Zerg=gg along with Terran.
Click to expand...

Not true, but too complicated to explain


----------



## ARcaLiTE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Not true, but too complicated to explain


Sorry, I should have clarified. What I meant was that a 200/200 Protoss "death ball" or Terran "death ball" will almost always kill a 200/200 Zerg (without remaxing). At least in my case that's how it always seems to happen to me.


----------



## avaya

A 200 food army that is primarily corruptor/brood lord/infestor has a chance at beating any protoss or terran army. When protoss or terran maxes at 200 it's usually with tier 2 or 3 units (colossus, mothership, void rays, medivacs, thors, vikings). Zerg often maxes quickly on tier 1.5 (roaches/zerglings) which is expected to die/remax to a tier-3 200 army.


----------



## CravinR1

download a iso from a torrent. You have a legit key


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> A 200 food army that is primarily corruptor/brood lord/infestor has a chance at beating any protoss or terran army. When protoss or terran maxes at 200 it's usually with tier 2 or 3 units (colossus, mothership, void rays, medivacs, thors, vikings). Zerg often maxes quickly on tier 1.5 (roaches/zerglings) which is expected to die/remax to a tier-3 200 army.


This. Zerg with a 200/200 GGlord/infestor/roach or whatever usually trounces a Toss 200/200 without a mothership and or perfect storms


----------



## DoomDash

and it begins


----------



## Anti!!

I read that a day or two ago. Totally stoked!!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> download a iso from a torrent. You have a legit key


I just got a copy from my korean friend at school


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Right when I was hitting and beating low Masters, I go on a huge losing streak. 8-18 in the past 2 days. And it was all gimmicky builds, 4gates, 2rax all ins, Spine rush, etc. But at least now I know what to work on. Beating cheese.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Right when I was hitting and beating low Masters, I go on a huge losing streak. 8-18 in the past 2 days. And it was all gimmicky builds, 4gates, 2rax all ins, Spine rush, etc. But at least now I know what to work on. Beating cheese.


Slight correction I wouldn't call a 4gate a cheese.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Slight correction I wouldn't call a 4gate a cheese.


this.. a 4gate is early solid strat that is hard to hold...

ps.. im current a top gold player facing some plats who cheesse me a lot...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> this.. a 4gate is early solid strat that is hard to hold...
> ps.. im current a top gold player facing some plats who cheesse me a lot...


You're gold fighting low masters?


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You're gold fighting low masters?


"Some plats" Where'd you get masters?


----------



## DoomDash

My bad two Diamond avatars confused me.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5308170/


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Lovin the Zerg changes.


----------



## DoomDash

queen energy will not happen, just calling it now.


----------



## ARcaLiTE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> queen energy will not happen, just calling it now.


That is what I was looking forward to the most.


----------



## iambald

Queen energy is way too strong. Banshee/stargate viability is way down. The observer build time also pretty much negates banshee play in TvP.


----------



## Sainesk

other possibly silly ways it could be done:

-free starting creep tumor
-spawning pool 1 use ability of making 1 tumor within range of it
-ability to make changelings from larva, say 4 for 50 minerals


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> queen energy will not happen, just calling it now.


This is just stupid. Glad were dropping observer build time too, not like they can chrono them out... Loving all the T changes as well, should really help balance some late game scenarios.


----------



## DoomDash

T changes?


----------



## Anti!!




----------



## DoomDash

I can't believe all you guys get away with the sc2 profiles in your sigs. What is about me that attracts mod enforcement?


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I can't believe all you guys get away with the sc2 profiles in your sigs. What is about me that attracts mod enforcement?


You post in other places on the forum regularly. I had the same problem, I rarely post and just lurk this thread, but like to post elsewhere. I had to take down my profile. Mods gonna mod.


----------



## Sainesk

I don't see how it's breaking the rules. Under the advertising section it clearly states you're not allowed links that you or someone you know benefit/profit from. I only displayed mine so people can see what achievements/leagues I have so they can know if my opinion has something to back it up or not (experience for example).

Edit: there's that too. I guess it's a good idea to remove the ext link.


----------



## DoomDash

I was told we are not allowed to link to ANY non-oc.net source in our sigs.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I was told we are not allowed to link to ANY non-oc.net source in our sigs.


Really? I've never heard that before lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Really? I've never heard that before lol


I assure you I got warnings for it from two different mods. Unless they are misinformed.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I assure you I got warnings for it from two different mods. Unless they are misinformed.


I've posted all over the place and I haven't been asked to remove it from my sig. Seems like an odd thing to exclude.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I can't believe all you guys get away with the sc2 profiles in your sigs. What is about me that attracts mod enforcement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You post in other places on the forum regularly. I had the same problem, I rarely post and just lurk this thread, but like to post elsewhere. I had to take down my profile. Mods gonna mod.
Click to expand...

I have never, ever been attacked for it. And I have posted in heavily modded places


----------



## Anti!!

Hmmmm.. didnt know that. Seems silly to me..


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hmmmm.. didnt know that. Seems silly to me..


I agree, I wasn't too thrilled about changing it.


----------



## Anti!!

Shhhhhhh change the subject. LLoll!!

How about that stupid zerg queen energy. Dumb op swarm!!!! * cough *

Wait. I play the swarm. Carpppp..


----------



## Sainesk

I saw some Terrans complaining about some 10 second change, I totally panicked that the rax was getting another build time nerf, then saw it's observer -10 second production time being tested









As a R player I think extra starting Queen energy would be too strong, apart from other things, it would make muta, queen, spine build a huge pain to deal with (especially for Protoss). I'd prefer the overlord speed change.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I saw some Terrans complaining about some 10 second change, I totally panicked that the rax was getting another build time nerf, then saw it's observer -10 second production time being tested
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a R player I think extra starting Queen energy would be too strong, apart from other things, it would make muta, queen, spine build a huge pain to deal with (especially for Protoss). I'd prefer the overlord speed change.


I agree. From a Toss standpoint the energy is going to be a pain in my backside. But I don't think the Obs time will really do anything significant to the meta game in any way that I can currently think of.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I saw some Terrans complaining about some 10 second change, I totally panicked that the rax was getting another build time nerf, then saw it's observer -10 second production time being tested
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a R player I think extra starting Queen energy would be too strong, apart from other things, it would make muta, queen, spine build a huge pain to deal with (especially for Protoss). I'd prefer the overlord speed change.


Blizz already dropped the energy buff and increased the Queen's ground range by 2.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I think the Queen buff is perfect. It fixes earlygame ZvZ with the extra transfuse (now there's less variance between 14/14 and 15 hatch openers) and pushes back forward pylons in ZvP, which is totally ridiculous in the fact that the Protoss can reinforce faster than the Zerg IN THE ZERG'S OWN BASE. I'm not sure about ZvT though. It probably will indeed help with early MM all-in's, but it seems a tad overpowered once the creep REALLY starts to get going around the 9 minute mark.


----------



## DoomDash

As he said the energy buff is gone ( good riddance ), and now the queen has 2 more range. That is just as bogus as the starting energy if you ask me. Queens now have the same range as marines, hellions, sentries, and more than roach, reapers, archons, ect.

Talk about adding stuff that isn't needed. I just played the patch and the overlord speed is already a nice and fair buff, I don't see anything else being necessary.

I'm actually quite worried about that observer time reduction as well. As many of you know TvP is a pain right now, less time the robo bay is taken up is bad news for Terran even if it's only 10 seconds here and there. Also hurts banshee builds, but I can live with that.


----------



## HometownHero

There is no reason for protoss not to get out one fast observer to be safe against banshees now. I love banshees too...

Also, Blizzard's latest on TvP balance. They must not watch GSL?


----------



## Anti!!

You terrans whine alot.









*puts on flame suit*

I dont remember ever whining about my infestors getting the nerf hammer. Or about any nerf zerg has gotten or buff the other races get.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> ...or buff the other races get.


Buff + Terran? oh yea, that less than 20% increased movement speed of a seeker missile sure comes in handy...


----------



## avaya

Almost every non-standard strategy against zerg is significantly crippled with the overlord speed buff. The +25 queen energy is not a more significant buff.

I agree with Blizzard in saying tvp is balanced as-is. Terran just has to do damage or stay up a base from minutes 8 - 15. In pvz protoss has to do damage or stay on equal bases from minutes 9-12. PvZ I prefer to FFE into a strong 5gate +1 push before 9 minutes. TvP I prefer staying a base up with more passive play. My favorite games in all of sc2 are when the protoss scouts I have a fast 3rd, he responds by taking a 3rd, and I take a 4th and 5th while going 12rax marines, 5starport banshee. Usually he responds to my fast 3rd with 2-base colossus/gateway all-in though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You terrans whine alot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *puts on flame suit*
> I dont remember ever whining about my infestors getting the nerf hammer. Or about any nerf zerg has gotten or buff the other races get.


What infestor nerfs ? NP?

Maybe it's because you've been getting buffed more than nerfed for the past 2 years. Every patch is basically "How can we nerf Terran this time?". Also it's not whining when its something completely bogus like making queens marine range, that's a straight up joke.


----------



## HarrisLam

DAY9 plays magic of the gathering?

LOL OMG......


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> DAY9 plays magic of the gathering?
> LOL OMG......


is that a good or bad thing? can't tell from the way you said it...

I like it too but I prefer DOTP since i'm not rich to put together some super expensive always winning deck. I used to play Pauper in MTGO but even that has plenty of decks which can win in under 5 turns







I had a turn 1 Ulamog summon pauper deck (dark ritual, exhume +discard cards ftw)


----------



## DoomDash

I've only played like 1-2 games a day for the past week but this week I am 11-2 . I am number one in my plat division, beating Diamonds, and probably due for a promotion again. This time I will try not to go on tilt and get demoted, I threw away a lot of games last time getting frustrated.

The 1 game I played today TvP did nexus first. I was all set up for a 1 rax gassless expand but I decided to do a 1-1-1 all in instead ( with delayed gas ) because even if I did throw down my CC I would have been playing catch up. It worked out really well, especially because he built majority of his gateways in front of his natural expansion for some reason.


----------



## Anti!!

In response to doom dash. Yes nueral pararite. also the roach population count in beta. Then the energy on overseer with the ability to stop buildings. The roach damage nerf . Taking away damage against armor and kinda meeting in the middle.

We have all had our share if nerfs and terrans is just the most recent. Some are good some are bad. I can understand it feels like they are taking terrans ballz from them. I thought terran was ez pz before all the nerfs. I dont know why they are nerfing so much but i feel it isnt necessary to bash all the time or complain when they entertain the thought of buffing another race. Pls dont hate on a race and act like its trash when it doesnt go your way. All three races are fun and i can nderstand favoring one over the others but complaing and bashing with your overbearing opinions all the time makes me think it would be a crime to even hint i play zerg. Now its old.


----------



## Mwarren

I think my biggest problem with SC2 is that it will never be a balanced game. Each race has it's strengths at certain points in the game and in every matchup besides mirror late game is imbalanced. This is why I like TvT so much, I can beat top master plays with ease TvT but the other matchups feel weird as in you have to cheese as terran or win before a certain point in the game or else your chances of winning go down drastically. I just wish that Blizzard made a game where each race was balanced at all points of the game.


----------



## ntherblast

Why is it everyone on the official forums between bronze-diamond think they know how the game works and always blame their lack of skill for imbalance?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Pls dont hate on a race and act like its trash when it doesnt go your way. All three races are fun and i can nderstand favoring one over the others but complaing and bashing with your overbearing opinions all the time makes me think it would be a crime to even hint i play zerg. Now its old.


I really don't know how you take anything I said as bashing Zergs or even near offensive. All I did was say the queen range was dumb, which it is.

Also you entire point about Z nerfs is missing my point. There are 20x more Terran nerfs, and 20x more Zerg buffs. Protoss has had a pretty mixed bag though. I was only saying its annoying.


----------



## genji

I just started learning Protoss, and I'm still in the Wood League, and I need a good safe build, but can be more advanced later on. I know absolutely no builds at all for any race, but I'm focusing all my attention on Protoss, so any beginner builds would be helpful. Also, if anyone is willing to show me some stuff in game, I'd really appreciate it! Add me genji(character number 752)


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I think my biggest problem with SC2 is that it will never be a balanced game. Each race has it's strengths at certain points in the game and in every matchup besides mirror late game is imbalanced. This is why I like TvT so much, I can beat top master plays with ease TvT but the other matchups feel weird as in you have to cheese as terran or win before a certain point in the game or else your chances of winning go down drastically. I just wish that Blizzard made a game where each race was balanced at all points of the game.


I agree that SC2 will never be balanced

However, I disagree that blizzard should make a game where each race is balanced at all points in the game

Your 2 points in that reply contradict each other. You KNOW why the game will never be balanced, and therefore you should understand what it takes to have true balance among races. You will have to kill all major variations among races before achieving true balance. The orbital command, SCV repairs, the larve spawn system, the wrap in system, the creep spread, protoss buildings that build themselves (the fundamental strength of protoss proxies), take away the special units, etc etc etc

think blizzard is doing a great job considering the vast variation between races as the *imbalances* are really minimal to the point where pros belong to each race still share more or less similar win rates in tournaments


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Are there any Diamond/Low Master Protosses here on the NA server that's willing to be my practice partner? I can't seem to grasp ZvP and it's quickly becoming my worst matchup. If someone could give some advice, that would be great.


----------



## Mwarren

I didn't contradict myself it all. Its completely possible to make a game balanced around 3 different races they would just have to operate slightly different. For example, one race can rely on technology (protoss) meaning that they need less units/less of an army to deal with a race that relys on brute force (Terran) which would make the gameplay diverse but would also keep it balanced. It's perfecly reasonable to assume that its possible to make a game that has different races and "mechanics" balanced. It would just require a lot of thought, planning, and testing. I actually consider SC2 to be pretty stale when it comes the diversity of the races. Sure, Terran can drop mules and Protoss can speed up cool down times but everything is extremely linear when it comes to armys and unit X beating Y. There is no "well X can be Y if the player gets the insertupgradehere for X" that allows the thor to go into transform mode and be an air unit letting mech players deal with air effectively, or giving units a few upgrade paths instead of the cookie cutter 1 or 2 upgrades for most units.

Siege tanks could have an artillery mode that increases their supply by 3 but increases their range by 12, a long with having other possibly upgrades. Each unit could have a set of possible upgrades, but only one upgrade can be obtained per unit type. Blizzard could balance out all of the upgrades so that all of the units are balanced straight up and with their respective upgrade vs each other, but make it come down to what unit comp, strategy, and tech/upgraades the player gets vs having one unit completely hard counter another one or having one race stronger at a certain point in the game.

Why not give medivacs an ability called parachute that allows them to toss out marines and have them glide in the air for a small amount of time, making marine/medivac viable against raw broodlord or hellion unit compositions but also requiring good mechanical ability and timing (getting the upgrade at the right time). To me, these kind of things would make SC2 an amazing spectator game, as of right now I'm bored to tears with how straight forward the game is. Which is also one of the main reasons why I'm working on my own RTS in the Galaxy editor (two RTS games to be exact, ones almost in ALPHA stage).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I really don't know how you take anything I said as bashing Zergs or even near offensive. All I did was say the queen range was dumb, which it is.
> Also you entire point about Z nerfs is missing my point. There are 20x more Terran nerfs, and 20x more Zerg buffs. Protoss has had a pretty mixed bag though. I was only saying its annoying.


Well, i guess there is no way to ever get you to understand it then. I guess my point is if anyone gets a buff other than terran you're going to complain. Always, or at least that has been your track record. Lol. Dont take me wrong i dont take it personal. Lol im just pointing out how negative you seem.

Bias even.

You and hometownhero.


----------



## HarrisLam

are they buffing queen's range?

I need to read the update log somewhere when i get the time

I think i know this affects heavily though, would be reaper rushes

not that i will ever use reapers you know lol


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> are they buffing queen's range?


They're testing increased queen ground range...

Dully posted this pic over on the Bliz forums:

I would laugh if the animation change they're planning if they do increase it is an infested terran riding on the back of the queen shooting everything


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, i guess there is no way to ever get you to understand it then. I guess my point is if anyone gets a buff other than terran you're going to complain. Always, or at least that has been your track record. Lol. Dont take me wrong i dont take it personal. Lol im just pointing out how negative you seem.
> Bias even.
> You and hometownhero.


Why wouldn't I be negative? A lot of the changes I don't think were necessary. I complain about things that affect Terran because I get the Terran point of view of things, which is why I generally cannot comment on things that don't affect Terran match ups. That and I think most of the changes that Terran has received have been because of things only the Terran pros can really take advantage of to the point it may be slightly overpowered, so all the lesser Terrans get the shaft in the process.

That and a lot of changes I happen to *agree* with. You can look at any patch note date and you will see some of the changes I will agree with, even if it doesn't benefit me. Even this time I said I like the overlord change. Why? Because I feel Zerg needs it, I happen to look at things as objectively as I can.

With the observer build time I gave a pro and a con to the change for TvP. I said that on one hand while it makes more free robo time and means more colossus and immortals, it does help against banshee builds. I personally always thought that banshee builds against Protoss were a little too powerful, the fact that you always need to be ready or sometimes you can just build order loss. Still, just because one side of it is an OK part, that doesn't mean the part where they have MORE robobay units out is something that was needed in return.

So if anything my track record is nothing more than a Terran point of view, but a Terran point of view who is sometimes OK with Terran nerfs as long as they are justified. The Hellion BF damage reduction? You didn't hear a complaint from me, BFH was bogus.

and yeah look at the above picture...... who actually thinks the queen needs marine range? Seriously?


----------



## HarrisLam

[email protected] that pic

that buff looks more ridiculous than that nerf about reaper speed getting thrown to factory


----------



## Twistacles

What are they trying to do to the Queen? From what I understand its to stabilize ZvZ ?

Shouldnt they be worried about something else? Like... I don't know... PvZ and TvP?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> What are they trying to do to the Queen? From what I understand its to stabilize ZvZ ?
> Shouldnt they be worried about something else? Like... I don't know... PvZ and TvP?


I don't know, did they even give a reason for such a change? They changed queen energy and did this, so I don't think it has a anything to do with ZvZ as faster creep never had anything to do with it.

The main question is exactly that, what the heck are they doing, and why? It's a pointless change and it will be broken IMO. Mass queens, it will happen.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, i guess there is no way to ever get you to understand it then. I guess my point is if anyone gets a buff other than terran you're going to complain. Always, or at least that has been your track record. Lol. Dont take me wrong i dont take it personal. Lol im just pointing out how negative you seem.
> Bias even.
> You and hometownhero.


Sometimes I think the frustration can bleed into bias. I don't blindly bash patch changes just because they dont buff terran or buff the other races, but its getting to the point where the vast majority of pros can identify an obvious imbalance in TvP and Blizzard doesn't seem to think that it's worthy of attention. QXC is an excellent example because he writes well and has an excellent understanding of the game (QXC's Blog Posts). It frustrates me to see patch after patch go by with glaring imbalances not being addressed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't know, did they even give a reason for such a change? They changed queen energy and did this, so I don't think it has a anything to do with ZvZ as faster creep never had anything to do with it.
> The main question is exactly that, what the heck are they doing, and why? It's a pointless change and it will be broken IMO. Mass queens, it will happen.


The fact that they dont give reasoning behind the changes and merely explain what the changes will do is insulting, really. People are always in an uproar about casters making too many mistakes because they arent high level players, I dont think David Kim is GM... Also, mass queen got mentioned on SoTG the other day as a viable strategy







.


----------



## DoomDash

David Kim has been grand masters a bunch of seasons, not sure about anymore.


----------



## DoomDash

Number one, yeah I know I am.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Are there any Diamond/Low Master Protosses here on the NA server that's willing to be my practice partner? I can't seem to grasp ZvP and it's quickly becoming my worst matchup. If someone could give some advice, that would be great.


well im top gold protoss, i can be your opponent if you want

yukss # 987
[email protected]


----------



## Anti!!

Suprise!! Squirtle and hero (p) blow out supernova and taeja (t)... this pvt balance thing is starting to seem more and more legit..


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Number one, yeah I know I am.


Lol as soon as i saw it i came here, reaper expand ftl eh. What's going to piss me off though is now queens can chill on creep and throw **** at your helions.

Edit: LOL you should read all the zergs posting in that thread about how it doesn't really change much

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> well im top gold protoss, i can be your opponent if you want
> yukss # 987
> [email protected]


then why is your profile picture diamond xD


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> then why is your profile picture diamond xD


yeah.......why is my avatar my avatar


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> Lol as soon as i saw it i came here, reaper expand ftl eh. What's going to piss me off though is now queens can chill on creep and throw **** at your helions.
> Edit: LOL you should read all the zergs posting in that thread about how it doesn't really change much
> then why is your profile picture diamond xD


that´s my target....


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> yeah.......why is my avatar my avatar


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> that´s my target....


yeah.....my avatar's my tar...............

I wish


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> LOL you should read all the zergs posting in that thread about how it doesn't really change much


Doesn't change much? Are they crazy? This effectively makes 2 rax almost useless, reaper opens which were already rare way worse, and makes it easy for basically everyone to shut down hellions and all ins with out actually having to learn to play against such things with skills.

Seriously if I bunker rush they can hit my SCV from in front of the bunker even if the SCV is behind the bunker. That is completely bogus. >.<. Arg I don't get people.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Doesn't change much? Are they crazy? This effectively makes 2 rax almost useless, reaper opens which were already rare way worse, and makes it easy for basically everyone to shut down hellions and all ins with out actually having to learn to play against such things with skills.
> Seriously if I bunker rush they can hit my SCV from in front of the bunker even if the SCV is behind the bunker. That is completely bogus. >.<. Arg I don't get people.


They are ignorant, and are commenting on things they shouldnt. I think the overlord buff is the only viable buff..

With skill early pressure can be held off just fine. WITHOUT the queen being stretch arm strong.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They are ignorant, and are commenting on things they shouldnt. I think the overlord buff is the only viable buff..
> With skill early pressure can be held off just fine. WITHOUT the queen being stretch arm strong.


Yeah, which is why I agree with that OL change because its great! How are you singing my tune now?







. The OL change alone might give Intel that hellions are coming ( or marines ) anyway. I've been playing against master Zergs for a very very long time and I can tell you that the good ones don't let the hellions do damage beyond killing creep.


----------



## Anti!!

I never said i didnt agree with you. I just pointed out your negativity.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah, which is why I agree with that OL change because its great! How are you singing my tune now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The OL change alone might give Intel that hellions are coming ( or marines ) anyway. I've been playing against master Zergs for a very very long time and I can tell you that the good ones don't let the hellions do damage beyond killing creep.


I haven't seen a 2 rax accomplish more than a drone kill or two at any of the most recent tournaments. It's so easy to stop hellion pressure when the Zerg knows what he's doing and uses spines/buildings/queens to block or funnel hellion aggression. The Queen range buff is over kill at this point.

Nice to see you agree Anti...







Not to take anything away from Hero though, he has been on an absolute tear as of late.


----------



## Razultull

doesn't matter 2 rax is still really strong on the master ladder(and grandmaster from what i see of streams).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razultull*
> 
> doesn't matter 2 rax is still really strong on the master ladder(and grandmaster from what i see of streams).


I've had Zergs tell me "Wow I haven't seen a 2 rax in ages", because when I came back to playing I was still using it as if it were standard. Even if 2 rax happens it's not strong enough to justify queen range, as Zerg's are pretty used to it now. I would say strong would be changed out for "good". It has potential to do damage, but potential to get behind, just like any good build.


----------



## Yukss

here a question, why the overclock.net channel is almost always lonely ? everyday i join it and just see few ocn members online..


----------



## DoomDash

Because SCII is 2 years old almost









Also anyone ever watched last shadow stream? http://www.twitch.tv/imls/

Dude is pretty sick.


----------



## Razultull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Because SCII is 2 years old almost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also anyone ever watched last shadow stream? http://www.twitch.tv/imls/
> Dude is pretty sick.


Yea i've watched his stream every now and then he understands terran so well. There was a vlog he did a while ago that covered some pro, i hesitate to use the word "tips" as they were more higher level understandings of a professional player who has the ability to articulate what he's trying to say; nonetheless he covered some very interesting points about the terran meta game and what the mindset should be going into every matchup from the early, earl-mid, mid, and late game, and I'm not talking about stuff that Day-9 would spew catering to a bronzy.

It was essentially one of the few moments one gets to in this game(assuming you've played a decent amount) where you actually hear something that changes the way you think about how starcraft should be approached. I'll try and find the link tomorrow but the guy knows his stuff man.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I will be quitting or at least severely cutting back again. Too much to do in life and I will never be happy with my performance hindered with it.


----------



## Sainesk

will you be playing D3 more Doom? Race you to a radiant star








I'm pretty hopeful i'll make it to diamond random before HOTS if D3 and TL2 and life don't consume all my time...







course that's way easier than Masters to GM I guess, or Masters Korean...

oh dear, I have 90% loss rate on Shakuras...


----------



## HarrisLam

anyone has a solution as terran against 2 zergs with 1 going pure lings and 1 going pure roach in 4v4??

just regular MM?


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> anyone has a solution as terran against 2 zergs with 1 going pure lings and 1 going pure roach in 4v4??
> just regular MM?


Um. The solution is to just kill them first.

In 4v4, last I checked, the best composition is zerg zerg terran protoss.

Both zergs go 10Pool peedling while the terran goes gas first reactor hellions. The lings tank for the hellions and this big ball moves around and kills at least two of the people right off the bat. While this is happening, the protoss is going for a 4gate.

Have fun with #1 masters 4v4 you can thank me later
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think I will be quitting or at least severely cutting back again. Too much to do in life and I will never be happy with my performance hindered with it.


I tell myself this every month and I end up just playing more.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Um. The solution is to just kill them first.
> In 4v4, last I checked, the best composition is zerg zerg terran protoss.
> Both zergs go 10Pool peedling while the terran goes gas first reactor hellions. The lings tank for the hellions and this big ball moves around and kills at least two of the people right off the bat. While this is happening, the protoss is going for a 4gate.
> Have fun with #1 masters 4v4 you can thank me later


great strat no dout, but i dont think ill have to thank you later

I play random teams, and i struggle to get good teammates

Whenever I get a full team that know what we doing (dont even need to be good), I win at least 70% of the time

It just doesnt happen often


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> great strat no dout, but i dont think ill have to thank you later
> I play random teams, and i struggle to get good teammates
> Whenever I get a full team that know what we doing (dont even need to be good), I win at least 70% of the time
> It just doesnt happen often


Yeaaah. Thats why you get 3 ok-ish people and you can just do that, 5-0 your placements and get masters then never play 4v4 again cause its terrible.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Yeaaah. Thats why you get 3 ok-ish people and you can just do that, 5-0 your placements and get masters then never play 4v4 again cause its terrible.


nah

first of all even if my team is ok-ish, its not like they are gonna just follow what i have to say. Everyone has what he wants to do. All you can convince them into, is either rush, or no rush.

and ill keep playing 4v4, sometimes 3v3 too, because they are more laid back. i dont feel nearly as much pressure as playing 1s. I'm a laid back gamer. I play to have fun, and 1v1s cause way too much mood swing, usually towards south.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> I tell myself this every month and I end up just playing more.


Yeah now that I've said that I feel like playing again.


----------



## rageofthepeon

Is something wrong with me? I don't play or even have Starcraft II but I love watching commentary replays on youtube for some reason.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rageofthepeon*
> 
> Is something wrong with me? I don't play or even have Starcraft II but I love watching commentary replays on youtube for some reason.


nothing wrong with you







, as long as someone has minor understanding of the game, and enjoys it, it can be very fun to spectate with good players/commentators.
I think the first match in this video is one of my favorite games ever:


----------



## Anti!!

]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> nothing wrong with you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , as long as someone has minor understanding of the game, and enjoys it, it can be very fun to spectate with good players/commentators.
> I think the first match in this video is one of my favorite games ever:


Yep outstanding!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah now that I've said that I feel like playing again.


The power of blizzard.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rageofthepeon*
> 
> Is something wrong with me? I don't play or even have Starcraft II but I love watching commentary replays on youtube for some reason.


well, I dont play soccer

But I do have the desire to watch big championships like the world cup, etc

watching is just something else

That isn't to say that you don't LIKE playing starcraft though, seeing that you dont actually have the game


----------



## Sainesk

I think I should have posted the 2nd part of the video too:






I don't think i've learned as much from another T player as I have from Jjakji (little tricks like attacking own marine to kill burrowed units like a boss







)


----------



## DoomDash

I knew that stuff in brood war man.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I knew that stuff in brood war man.


XD


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I knew that stuff in brood war man.


I love 'using' a lot of BW rushes or builds, it often works out quite well when you're playing just for fun


----------



## 13321G4

I just realised how much fun cheese is. It is so rewarding to win without doing any effort ^.^

My play is usually based on harassing my opponent and getting more and more ahead by expanding aggressively, so my main army is usually quite passive.

I have experienced too often that my army was laid to waist and as a result losing a game whilst all the same being ahead. By not overstretch-ing, a majority of my games are boring to look at late game but a win is a win.

I need more practice with speed-prisms though.

Why noob-terrans think storm is OP:
I was building the typical late game protoss ball (but with carriers!







) and my opponent might have built 5 vikings and a ghost. Note that he did build a nuke for this ghost, but I happened to walk into the ghost while moving around the map. So now the terran has his MMM ball all nice and big and is maxed out. No vikings, no ghosts, just MMM.

This takes place on the centre aisle of Cloud kingdom. I hold the Xel-Naga so see his army coming. Knowing I have it in the bag I move my entire army back but my five HT forward. I manage to hit two beautifull storms, and the Terran reacts by moving forward so two more beautiful storms. Terran thinks, I must now kill these HT! So two more beautiful storms! And then death. Only death.

Got 26 kills on 1 HT


----------



## Sybr

^^ GGNORE, walking near high ground with HT...

Just finished watching this week's Funday Monday (Air only).
Corruptors suck vs protoss air. Conclusion: macro harder because 8 corruptors can beat two protoss air units (QQ)
Thanks Day9 for rephrasing why I never build corruptors in ZvP


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> Corruptors suck vs protoss air.


Huh? the only P air unit that stands a chance is the void ray, the rest are teared up by corruptors.
If it's mainly void rays you throw in like 2 infestors and lol at how awesome FG is... or just pull back when the VRs are charged and shed tears of joy their speed upgrade got removed.

(Also the Z player in that daily didn't have any upgrades on his corruptors while the P player did on his air units.)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> win.
> I need more practice with speed-prisms though.
> 
> Why noob-terrans think storm is OP:


It certainly has been looking OP at the highest tier as well.


----------



## Sybr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> (Also the Z player in that daily didn't have any upgrades on his corruptors while the P player did on his air units.)


Didn't notice that









My corruptors almost never survive a P deathball, resulting in a lost game for me. That's why I switched to mutas so I can prevent the P unit buildup by constant harras. The only time I use corruptors now is when I'm making brood lords.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> Didn't notice that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My corruptors almost never survive a P deathball, resulting in a lost game for me. That's why I switched to mutas so I can prevent the P unit buildup by constant harras. The only time I use corruptors now is when I'm making brood lords.


Hey!! You made it over. Welcome.

Our channel in sc2 is overclock.net. See you around.


----------



## HometownHero

Changes go live tomorrow.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I wonder how these changes are being implemented. There's no patch, and it definitely isn't a per-map change.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Changes go live tomorrow.


BOOOOoooo FREAAAKINNnnnnn WHOoooooo. lol

I have about decided to go terran. I LOVE playing terran.


----------



## DoomDash

anddd Blizzard hits a new low. Seriously do they just not care about community feedback or logic anymore? Buffing queens for no reason?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> anddd Blizzard hits a new low. Seriously do they just not care about community feedback or logic anymore? Buffing queens for no reason?


Next thing you know, in the next patch mutalisks will have a +2 range buff too because their range sucks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Next thing you know, in the next patch mutalisks will have a +2 range buff too because their range sucks


Yep, I mean why not? Maybe give them an auto magic box button to do it on the fly to "add" less micro and thinking to the game too.


----------



## Sybr

I like the ovie change. Overlords now have a better chance to escape an attacking queen (off creep of course) . A common source of frustration in ZvZ's is when your scouting ovies are doomed because of a queen. I'm interested in the range upgrade however, 5 range on queens might make them better support units. Or an epic microfest in a monobattle


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> I like the ovie change. Overlords now have a better chance to escape an attacking queen (off creep of course) . A common source of frustration in ZvZ's is when your scouting ovies are doomed because of a queen. I'm interested in the range upgrade however, 5 range on queens might make them better support units. Or an epic microfest in a monobattle


Yeah scouting overlords need to survive

.........like scouting pylons or depots ....... oh wait they can't fly or scout


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Yeah scouting queens need to survive
> .........like scouting pylons or depots ....... oh wait they can't fly or scout


Supply depots should be able to lift off. That would be crazy. I could make some awesome sim-cities.


----------



## Anti!!

??? Am i hearing this right??? Lol all your buildings float terran and you use satelite to scan.. lol and protoss you have a invisible scouter. Haha. But queen buff?? I just dont know about that.


----------



## Sainesk

I don't know about higher level players but around top Plat level I never have trouble vs hellions as Z. Evo + 2 queens 1 spine or 2 spine 1 queen at natural and i'm walled and feel like i've won since those 4 or so hellions could have been invested into another CC (evo and extra queens never hurt, only the spine is a "waste"). Queens aren't supposed to chase down hellions, I feel they're fine as almost hold position blockers. With the added range I dont think reaper or bunker builds will be seen used a lot anymore.


----------



## Alex132

I think that Blizzard just adapted Zerg to the hellion build rather than the Zerg players adapting their build to the hellions.


----------



## Anti!!

There was no need for it at all. I had 0 problems with zerg in high diamond to low masters. What so ever. lol

I really imagine it will get removed.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I guess this is a disadvantage to it.... not sure how useful it will be lol.


----------



## Mwarren

Does anyone else think that SC2 is a horribly balanced stale game? Terrans lack of a late game and the unbalance in the late game seem ******ed considering that the game has been out for over 2 years now. It just seems like to me that Terran should have an answer to mass broods/infestor that requires the same amount of micro as brood/infestor does.

Maybe give ravens an ability that slows down all biological units in its proximity and increase the range of seeker missile to 12. Hell, even making PDD stop broodlings would work. The game just feels so stale racing against the clock as terran when the game is supposed to be balanced. I wish that I had more time to work on a SC2 multiplayer balance mod but I'm too busy working on another mod.

Anyways, will be getting D3 on release date so I'm switching over to that, anyone want to team up in D3?


----------



## DoomDash

I'll be getting D3 as well, but I will probably still play SCII occasionally.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Does anyone else think that SC2 is a horribly balanced stale game? Terrans lack of a late game and the unbalance in the late game seem ******ed considering that the game has been out for over 2 years now. *It just seems like to me that Terran should have an answer to mass broods/infestor that requires the same amount of micro as brood/infestor does*.
> 
> Anyways, will be getting D3 on release date so I'm switching over to that, anyone want to team up in D3?


I think we used to

its called uh......snipe









I wonder what we happen to my gaming balance once D3 is out for ~2weeks (i haven't pre-ordered it)

right now, its like 5 hours play time a week, 90% SC2, 9 - 10% on my 3rd play through of DA origins, and 0 - 1% of my 20 other games

I also have a logitech G27 that I felt I've only gotten 10% of my money out of it


----------



## kdon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> There was no need for it at all. I had 0 problems with zerg in high diamond to low masters. What so ever. lol
> I really imagine it will get removed.


Lettuce be reality... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1033516/1/RaGinNyDusDS/ladder/lastseason/leagues platinum=low masters?

Oh and hello sc2 thread







I'm dirkaderk.516 if anyone's looking for a baddie diamond player for some games


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I think we used to
> its called uh......snipe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what we happen to my gaming balance once D3 is out for ~2weeks (i haven't pre-ordered it)
> right now, its like 5 hours play time a week, 90% SC2, 9 - 10% on my 3rd play through of DA origins, and 0 - 1% of my 20 other games
> I also have a logitech G27 that I felt I've only gotten 10% of my money out of it


Too bad snipe is garbage now and ghosts are extremely fragile. It makes no sense how ghosts are supposed to be the counter to infestor/broodlord a long with vikings yet if you leave your ghosts clumped or mis click an emp you pretty much auto lose, zerg can get all of their infestors emped and still come out ahead because terran lacks a viable late game offensive unit such as the broodlord that is actually good. I think that changing the ravens range to seeker missile range to around 10 and decreasing seekers energy cost would give terran a viable late game offenseive unit even though it would be a spell caster.

That way it would force zerg to micro their infestors better, split broodlords, and try to focus fire or force seekers from ravens with corruptors. This way the late game battles would be more balanced because terran would have to be careful with not getting their marines and/or ghosts fungaled. They would also have to be careful about engaging with their ravens and splitting them.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kdon*
> 
> Lettuce be reality... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1033516/1/RaGinNyDusDS/ladder/lastseason/leagues platinum=low masters?
> Oh and hello sc2 thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm dirkaderk.516 if anyone's looking for a baddie diamond player for some games


Race? I can't open my client right now.


----------



## kdon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Race? I can't open my client right now.


Terran, just recently switched from protoss so I'm currently learning


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kdon*
> 
> Lettuce be reality... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1033516/1/RaGinNyDusDS/ladder/lastseason/leagues platinum=low masters?
> Oh and hello sc2 thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm dirkaderk.516 if anyone's looking for a baddie diamond player for some games


ermm bro.

I dont even play like i used to.

If you look at my rank history you will see. I havent played seriously for 4 seasons. I was beating masters peeps on a regular basis. Thats low masters. Crap on your own door step pls. Another hall monitor i see.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

If you weren't promoted to Master then you were high Diamond. Not Master. If you were low Master Blizzard would have promoted you.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> If you weren't promoted to Master then you were high Diamond. Not Master. If you were low Master Blizzard would have promoted you.


Give me a stinking break. Lets split hairs cause i didn't do it in my league games cause i didn't know someone was gonna be a Purest. FINE High diamond. Talk about spliting a c*nt hair.. I practiced with high masters on a regular basis, and beating them. I was also going for promotion and my business fell out, and life had to take precedence. Now i just cant play like that anymore. I get so sick you of you know it all. SO, worried someone is perfect in your eyes. Worry about your avatar. K? K thx bai.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> If you weren't promoted to Master then you were high Diamond. Not Master. If you were low Master Blizzard would have promoted you.


lets be fair. We all know we get stuck in leagues from time to time. Don't be all uptight about 1/3 league difference or you're just going to piss somebody off.

YuksS (a member here) just beat me (im plat myself) in a game a month ago, and he was bronze 2 weeks before that (silver when I played him), he was constantly matched against plat players. Does that mean he was still silver at the time? Yes. But does that mean he can't talk about metagame at plat league? No.

Hell, I'm so lack of practice and suck so much right now I dont even know why the system keeps me at plat every single season (i play less than 10 1v1 each season ever since season 3).

If someone is beating others that are favored / slightly favored against him, that might imply something.

Chill Anti, I'm sure they dont mean to be hostile


----------



## Dr216

I was promoted from bronze directly to plat the first season and then again to diamond about 4 games later. The way mmr and leagues works can be very strange. if your regularly facing masters players and winning then thats the league you will be in once your mmr stabalises.


----------



## HometownHero

Yeah, Anti is telling the truth. That's where he was right before he took a break.

Finals end today for me and next week I start studying for the BAR, I don't even want to think about how bad I'd play right now.


----------



## DoomDash

I must have already quit when Anti was playing.


----------



## Alex132

I really need to learn Zerg, I am just too lazy right now.

I will probably switch once HotS comes out, lol.


----------



## avaya

This will be the summer of EGIdrA.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> This will be the summer of EGIdrA.


HAHAHA it may just be if he masses queens.

I two rax all inished (meaning is still maid a command center and macrod some i just spent to much in marines.) a diamond zerg in my clan last night killed 3 queens, 3 spine crawlers 8 zerglings and and a mess of drones. hahah. Gotta love that bunker. He messed up and let me get it up. I will upload replay if i need to.

But anywho, yea queens didnt need buff, but maybe it wont be so bad. *Holds breath*

Im really digging terran. I get my butt served all the time, but still not angry. I guess thats fun right? ahah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I must have already quit when Anti was playing.


Lol what was up with that. We woulda had some fun! Love zvt.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, Anti is telling the truth. That's where he was right before he took a break.
> Finals end today for me and next week I start studying for the BAR, I don't even want to think about how bad I'd play right now.


Thank you








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> lets be fair. We all know we get stuck in leagues from time to time. Don't be all uptight about 1/3 league difference or you're just going to piss somebody off.
> YuksS (a member here) just beat me (im plat myself) in a game a month ago, and he was bronze 2 weeks before that (silver when I played him), he was constantly matched against plat players. Does that mean he was still silver at the time? Yes. But does that mean he can't talk about metagame at plat league? No.
> Hell, I'm so lack of practice and suck so much right now I dont even know why the system keeps me at plat every single season (i play less than 10 1v1 each season ever since season 3).
> If someone is beating others that are favored / slightly favored against him, that might imply something.
> Chill Anti, I'm sure they dont mean to be hostile


Correct, and I will chill.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Give me a stinking break. Lets split hairs cause i didn't do it in my league games cause i didn't know someone was gonna be a Purest. FINE High diamond. Talk about spliting a c*nt hair.. I practiced with high masters on a regular basis, and beating them. I was also going for promotion and my business fell out, and life had to take precedence. Now i just cant play like that anymore. I get so sick you of you know it all. SO, worried someone is perfect in your eyes. Worry about your avatar. K? K thx bai.


For someone who says this isn't that big a deal, you're sure taking a hard hit. I was merely stating the fact that if you weren't Master league, then you aren't Master league. No need to get all butthurt. I acknowledge the fact that you probably once played at a Master level, but your profile would say otherwise. There is no need for all this hate.

Chill the hell out.


----------



## Faded

just reinstalled this last night... havent played in well over a year. Had a freaking BLAST playing with the ridiculous custom maps that people have out there, none of that was around last time i played.

i still, consistently, suck at the multiplayer matches but i won't lose any sleep over that... gotta find some good co-op maps for me and my buddies though.

Does anyone have any custom map suggestions, that are worth trying out? We have been playing around with one called CraftCraft and then some of the tower defense setups.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> For someone who says this isn't that big a deal, you're sure taking a hard hit. I was merely stating the fact that if you weren't Master league, then you aren't Master league. No need to get all butthurt. I acknowledge the fact that you probably once played at a Master level, but your profile would say otherwise. There is no need for all this hate.
> Chill the hell out.


Its text there is no sound. I dont need you to tell me to chill out. It seems you think you can call people out with no consequences. Go try and talk down to someone who cares.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Give me a stinking break. Lets split hairs cause i didn't do it in my league games cause i didn't know someone was gonna be a Purest. FINE High diamond. Talk about spliting a c*nt hair.. I practiced with high masters on a regular basis, and beating them. I was also going for promotion and my business fell out, and life had to take precedence. Now i just cant play like that anymore. I get so sick you of you know it all. SO, worried someone is perfect in your eyes. Worry about your avatar. K? K thx bai.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Its text there is no sound. I dont need you to tell me to chill out. It seems you think you can call people out with no consequences. *Go try and talk down to someone who cares.*


I don't know if you realize how stupid you are making yourself look


----------



## Anti!!

So , how about that queen buff. Which terran will be the first to share their hate story? This should be interesting lol!!


----------



## DoomDash

Flash, already commenting about OP Protoss, kinda made me lawl.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336791


----------



## HometownHero

Interview with some guy named Flash.
Quote:


> What are some difficulties for you?
> I think there's a problem with the balance. Protoss is overpowered so I hope they balance it out.
> 
> What exactly about Protoss is overpowered?
> Everything. Forcefields are OP, gateways are OP too... More importantly there are continuous patches but it seems like Terran is the only one that doesn't get buffs. I'm worried because they're on a downward trend.


I don't know who else we can get to try and convince Blizzard that Terrans aren't over-powered and that we need some help vs Protoss.

Edit: Thorzain's thoughts on Queen buff


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Interview with some guy named Flash.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> What are some difficulties for you?
> I think there's a problem with the balance. Protoss is overpowered so I hope they balance it out.
> What exactly about Protoss is overpowered?
> Everything. Forcefields are OP, gateways are OP too... More importantly there are continuous patches but it seems like Terran is the only one that doesn't get buffs. I'm worried because they're on a downward trend.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who else we can get to try and convince Blizzard that Terrans aren't over-powered and that we need some help vs Protoss.
> Edit: Thorzain's thoughts on Queen buff
Click to expand...

Although I DO think P is OP, I don't think Flash saying it holds much water since he is so new.

However Thorzain is right. Blizzards balance team is ******ed.


----------



## HometownHero

While you're probably right (hes only been playing for ~2 months), you have to remember hes been playing an RTS for years and can probably pick up on imbalances fairly quickly just from a general balance standpoint.


----------



## Anti!!

Flash is by far my favorite terran besides thorzain.

Edit: wait a minute. Is thorzain with eg?


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Yes, EG just acquired him 3 days ago


----------



## Anti!!

I figured it had to be recent. Kinda took me by suprise. Lol


----------



## Benladesh

I don't like how flash makes these claims when he is just starting SC2, there is no doubt he is experienced but I am sure he doesn't know the metagame for every race. Protoss is very strong in the late game but weaker in the early game, if you don't harass and let protoss get to the late game, you deserve to lose.

If you look at the win records in high up leagues. They are almost all even.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> So , how about that queen buff. Which terran will be the first to share their hate story? This should be interesting lol!!


I would never complain about it, I never bunker rushes cuz I dont have the microing skills


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> If you look at the win records in high up leagues. They are almost all even.


Win records do not indicate if a race is balanced or not. Just because one race wins more than another (or even if winrates are equal) does not mean it's balanced. Protoss can cannon rush every game and have a 50% winrate, but that doesn't prove anything.


----------



## Mwarren

Well to be honest, the game is definitely clearly unbalanced. The people and even the pros that say that the game is balanced are lying or don't understand what balance is. Do you honestly believe that terran having useless late game units (thors, tanks, BC's) in TvP and arguably in TvZ makes the game balanced because now Terran has to play aggressive with what they've got early game (marine, marauder, medivac) or else they lose in the late game due to having useless late game tech?

In my opinion to fix the balance problem would require for all of the races to have the same auxiliary/support units (medivacs, warp prisms, and overlords that all have a re searchable heal ability), a macro mechanic that increase the rate at which they can produce units the more bases that they have, a spell caster that is capable of spreading your races "creep" that increases their mobility and gives you map control, a long with well balanced early game, mid game, and late game units that have the potential to be aggressive initiators. That would also drastically increase the skill cap of the game and increase the number of deploy able strategy's. Right now SC2 is a very stale unbalanced dying game.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Well to be honest, the game is definitely clearly unbalanced. The people and even the pros that say that the game is balanced are lying or don't understand what balance is. Do you honestly believe that terran having useless late game units (thors, tanks, BC's) in TvP and arguably in TvZ makes the game balanced because now Terran has to play aggressive with what they've got early game (marine, marauder, medivac) or else they lose in the late game due to having useless late game tech?
> In my opinion to fix the balance problem would require for all of the races to have the same auxiliary/support units (medivacs, warp prisms, and overlords that all have a re searchable heal ability), a macro mechanic that increase the rate at which they can produce units the more bases that they have, a spell caster that is capable of spreading your races "creep" that increases their mobility and gives you map control, a long with well balanced early game, mid game, and late game units that have the potential to be aggressive initiators. That would also drastically increase the skill cap of the game and increase the number of deploy able strategy's. Right now SC2 is a very stale unbalanced dying game.


Partly disagree

I think the part in SC2 that *could* die has already died. Players that got bored, tired of the game, etc etc. The ones that are still playing are pretty much all looking forward to HotS

unless its coming out in dec 2013 or something


----------



## DoomDash

Mwarren you are awfully negative about SCII these days.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Mwarren you are awfully negative about SCII these days.


They could never release hots, and i would still play. lol


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Well to be honest, the game is definitely clearly unbalanced. The people and even the pros that say that the game is balanced are lying or don't understand what balance is. Do you honestly believe that terran having useless late game units (thors, tanks, BC's) in TvP and arguably in TvZ makes the game balanced because now Terran has to play aggressive with what they've got early game (marine, marauder, medivac) or else they lose in the late game due to having useless late game tech?
> 
> In my opinion to fix the balance problem would require for all of the races to have the same auxiliary/support units (medivacs, warp prisms, and overlords that all have a re searchable heal ability), a macro mechanic that increase the rate at which they can produce units the more bases that they have, a spell caster that is capable of spreading your races "creep" that increases their mobility and gives you map control, a long with well balanced early game, mid game, and late game units that have the potential to be aggressive initiators. That would also drastically increase the skill cap of the game and increase the number of deploy able strategy's. Right now SC2 is a very stale unbalanced dying game.


That makes the game stale. You are imagining a game that is all round mirror match up. For you the ultimate balance would be if there was only one race with one unit. SC2 is fun because of how unique it is.

Each race has it's own version of healing: medivac/repair, shields, burrow/transfuse.
Each race has it's own method of building: actually building, warp in, morphing
Each race has it's own special abilities: flying buildings, warpgate, larvae mechanic
Each has it's own base specials that allow for more: mules/scans/supply drop, chrono-boost, inject.

Because of how each race is different you can't have a perfect balance that you would get with 1 race one unit, but this makes the game fun and interesting.

I agree that some parts of the game seem very, very, broken: Stim, FF's, larvae mechanic.

However if you look at progamer's streams you notice that there is a balance.
Terrans were having a god 'easy' time against zerg late game pre-patch with the snipe so the ghost being the all round general answer against EVERYTHING late game of zerg. You could even EMP the investors. I was watching destiny and the guy he was playing was complaining about how overpowered fungal is. Reaction was basically, well why the hell don't you get ghosts? T's currently don't give a rats arse about going beyond four geysers because that is all the gas they could ever use on their MMM ball. In TvP I was watching a game from grubby's perspective, he was ahead in every regard and he was playing a friend who is not pro. The friend T was very idle, expanded and was going for late game. Every P's dream right cuz our l4t3 g4m3 b3 l33tz, no: This T had ghosts, and a lot of them. By emp-ing the army that was under the mothership (thus also emp-ing the mothership, stimming forward he took out the entire P army with ease. EMP is so powerful.

PvT, protoss is forced to tech FAST to AOE/splash units because otherwise the terran can stim to win. Well then the P uses sentries to be safe (essentially delaying any tech because 100 gas is a lot, and again emp will render them useless.

But yes the balance team is ******ed.

E:
Oh almost forgot, Queen OP


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Well to be honest, the game is definitely clearly unbalanced. The people and even the pros that say that the game is balanced are lying or don't understand what balance is. Do you honestly believe that terran having useless late game units (thors, tanks, BC's) in TvP and arguably in TvZ makes the game balanced because now Terran has to play aggressive with what they've got early game (marine, marauder, medivac) or else they lose in the late game due to having useless late game tech?
> 
> In my opinion to fix the balance problem would require for all of the races to have the same auxiliary/support units (medivacs, warp prisms, and overlords that all have a re searchable heal ability), a macro mechanic that increase the rate at which they can produce units the more bases that they have, a spell caster that is capable of spreading your races "creep" that increases their mobility and gives you map control, a long with well balanced early game, mid game, and late game units that have the potential to be aggressive initiators. That would also drastically increase the skill cap of the game and increase the number of deploy able strategy's. Right now SC2 is a very stale unbalanced dying game.


Go plat SupCom then, it's pretty much all the same units there.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Well to be honest, the game is definitely clearly unbalanced. The people and even the pros that say that the game is balanced are lying or don't understand what balance is. Do you honestly believe that terran having useless late game units (thors, tanks, BC's) in TvP and arguably in TvZ makes the game balanced because now Terran has to play aggressive with what they've got early game (marine, marauder, medivac) or else they lose in the late game due to having useless late game tech?
> In my opinion to fix the balance problem would require for all of the races to have the same auxiliary/support units (medivacs, warp prisms, and overlords that all have a re searchable heal ability), a macro mechanic that increase the rate at which they can produce units the more bases that they have, a spell caster that is capable of spreading your races "creep" that increases their mobility and gives you map control, a long with well balanced early game, mid game, and late game units that have the potential to be aggressive initiators. That would also drastically increase the skill cap of the game and increase the number of deploy able strategy's. Right now SC2 is a very stale unbalanced dying game.


If you let zerg just macro you lost too right? You have to force Zerg to not just macro, same for Toss. And Toss has to hurt Zerg in PvZ as well. I guess Zerg is imbalanced then too.

Having to do damage before lategame doesnt mean its imbalanced. It means you have to do damage. T units are far superior till post gateway and are good vs everything toss has. How is that fair? Ghosts are a catch all as well with EMP taking away up to half of our units hp. Carriers and Mship arent good in TvP and carriers arent used at all. Just because every unit isnt used doesn't mean your race is bad. DTs are extremely limited as well cuz of lolscan and PF.

HotS is coming out and the game is far from dying. Are you just making things up?


----------



## HarrisLam

EMP takes half you say?

Well storm takes all so.....


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> If you let zerg just macro you lost too right? You have to force Zerg to not just macro, same for Toss. And Toss has to hurt Zerg in PvZ as well. I guess Zerg is imbalanced then too.
> Having to do damage before lategame doesnt mean its imbalanced. It means you have to do damage. T units are far superior till post gateway and are good vs everything toss has. How is that fair? Ghosts are a catch all as well with EMP taking away up to half of our units hp. Carriers and Mship arent good in TvP and carriers arent used at all. Just because every unit isnt used doesn't mean your race is bad. DTs are extremely limited as well cuz of lolscan and PF.
> HotS is coming out and the game is far from dying. Are you just making things up?


SC2 is definitely dying. I saw the numbers posted over at TL and I don't have a direct link but it is losing players on a regular basis and HOTS might not even bring as many players back as you might think. One race having to damage or else they lose in the late game due to having inferior late game units is definitely imbalance. I think that you mis interpreted my post but SC2 is far from balanced. To be honest I'd rather each race be similar but have only minor differences and different balanced obtainable upgrades when it comes to their units. This would increase the balance of the game drastically, make it less luck based, and make games much more exciting to watch in my opinion.

Why not make stalkers just as effective as marauders, and get rid of zealots for a ranged protoss unit that is simliar to the marine. Make them look different as to be pleasing to the eye but give each race a wide variety of upgrades that can be obtained to make gameplay between the balanced units and the strategy's that revolve around them interesting.

To expand on this concept, why not make zerg the race that has units that have obtainable upgrades that allows them to duplicate themselves and increase their mobility, terran can be based around brute force and can have upgrades that increase the effectiveness of their weapons, damage, and squad tactics such as group aoe healing abilitys, protoss can be the race thats all about technology that relys on spell casters and expensive units that have a lot of capibilitys depending on what upgrades the player got for their units and their micro ability.

All of the battles would be balanced out and exciting as if zerg has an upgrade that allows them to duplicate some of their units to increase their army size, terran has a counter ability that allows their infantry weapons to do a small amount of splash damage. This makes battles much more micro intensive, positioning would become even more important, strategy would become more important, and the game would be balanced on all levels.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> If you let zerg just macro you lost too right? You have to force Zerg to not just macro, same for Toss. And Toss has to hurt Zerg in PvZ as well. I guess Zerg is imbalanced then too.
> Having to do damage before lategame doesnt mean its imbalanced. It means you have to do damage. T units are far superior till post gateway and are good vs everything toss has. How is that fair? Ghosts are a catch all as well with EMP taking away up to half of our units hp. Carriers and Mship arent good in TvP and carriers arent used at all. Just because every unit isnt used doesn't mean your race is bad. DTs are extremely limited as well cuz of lolscan and PF.
> HotS is coming out and the game is far from dying. Are you just making things up?
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 is definitely dying. I saw the numbers posted over at TL and I don't have a direct link but it is losing players on a regular basis and HOTS might not even bring as many players back as you might think. One race having to damage or else they lose in the late game due to having inferior late game units is definitely imbalance. I think that you mis interpreted my post but SC2 is far from balanced. To be honest I'd rather each race be similar but have only minor differences and different balanced obtainable upgrades when it comes to their units. This would increase the balance of the game drastically, make it less luck based, and make games much more exciting to watch in my opinion.
> 
> Why not make stalkers just as effective as marauders, and get rid of zealots for a ranged protoss unit that is simliar to the marine. Make them look different as to be pleasing to the eye but give each race a wide variety of upgrades that can be obtained to make gameplay between the balanced units and the strategy's that revolve around them interesting.
> 
> To expand on this concept, why not make zerg the race that has units that have obtainable upgrades that allows them to duplicate themselves and increase their mobility, terran can be based around brute force and can have upgrades that increase the effectiveness of their weapons, damage, and squad tactics such as group aoe healing abilitys, protoss can be the race thats all about technology that relys on spell casters and expensive units that have a lot of capibilitys depending on what upgrades the player got for their units and their micro ability.
> 
> All of the battles would be balanced out and exciting as if zerg has an upgrade that allows them to duplicate some of their units to increase their army size, terran has a counter ability that allows their infantry weapons to do a small amount of splash damage. This makes battles much more micro intensive, positioning would become even more important, strategy would become more important, and the game would be balanced on all levels.
Click to expand...

If you don't like the game, don't play it.

Stop whining about it.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> EMP takes half you say?
> 
> Well storm takes all so.....


EMP reveals hidden & instant damage so...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> If you let zerg just macro you lost too right? You have to force Zerg to not just macro, same for Toss. And Toss has to hurt Zerg in PvZ as well. I guess Zerg is imbalanced then too.
> Having to do damage before lategame doesnt mean its imbalanced. It means you have to do damage. T units are far superior till post gateway and are good vs everything toss has. How is that fair? Ghosts are a catch all as well with EMP taking away up to half of our units hp. Carriers and Mship arent good in TvP and carriers arent used at all. Just because every unit isnt used doesn't mean your race is bad. DTs are extremely limited as well cuz of lolscan and PF.
> HotS is coming out and the game is far from dying. Are you just making things up?
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 is definitely dying. I saw the numbers posted over at TL and I don't have a direct link but it is losing players on a regular basis and HOTS might not even bring as many players back as you might think. One race having to damage or else they lose in the late game due to having inferior late game units is definitely imbalance. I think that you mis interpreted my post but SC2 is far from balanced. To be honest I'd rather each race be similar but have only minor differences and different balanced obtainable upgrades when it comes to their units. This would increase the balance of the game drastically, make it less luck based, and make games much more exciting to watch in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Only because the standard Terran play is MMM or other Tier 2 units does not mean that a terran can't also have huge benefits if it's not being pressured... How about teching to BC's? Pretty good unit... Or Ravens: PDD and Seeker Missiles...
Quote:


> Why not make stalkers just as effective as marauders, and get rid of zealots for a ranged protoss unit that is simliar to the marine. Make them look different as to be pleasing to the eye but give each race a wide variety of upgrades that can be obtained to make gameplay between the balanced units and the strategy's that revolve around them interesting.a
> 
> To expand on this concept, why not make zerg the race that has units that have obtainable upgrades that allows them to duplicate themselves and increase their mobility, terran can be based around brute force and can have upgrades that increase the effectiveness of their weapons, damage, and squad tactics such as group aoe healing abilitys, protoss can be the race thats all about technology that relys on spell casters and expensive units that have a lot of capibilitys depending on what upgrades the player got for their units and their micro ability.
> 
> All of the battles would be balanced out and exciting as if zerg has an upgrade that allows them to duplicate some of their units to increase their army size, terran has a counter ability that allows their infantry weapons to do a small amount of splash damage. This makes battles much more micro intensive, positioning would become even more important, strategy would become more important, and the game would be balanced on all levels.


Because it's BORING. And lame. Oh and just as broken because one tech tree would be the best...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> EMP reveals hidden & instant damage so...
> Only because the standard Terran play is MMM or other Tier 2 units does not mean that a terran can't also have huge benefits if it's not being pressured... How about teching to BC's? Pretty good unit... Or Ravens: PDD and Seeker Missiles...
> Because it's BORING. And lame. Oh and just as broken because one tech tree would be the best...


Not true, upgrades would be balanced between all of the races and you may think that it would be boring but I'd argue otherwise. I think that it would make the game more fun, strategically fufilling, and battles would be more micro dependent than they are now.

As for the QQer that posted above me, I'll complain about SC2 all that I want. Personally, I'm glad that the game is dying. I hope that another top notch RTS takes its throne but that's unlikely.


----------



## Sainesk

SC2 has more than 750K+ active players. That's more than the top 10 games on steam combined.
If you ask me, with the recent switch of many pro BW players (and consequently, their fans who haven't switched to SC2 yet) it's about to get a whole lot more popular, even if only in South Korea.

This doesn't mean Blizzard is doing a good job balance wise, they really need to start thinking changes through and listening to the pros more (the ones that aren't just QQing "the races I don't play are OP") if they want to keep the player base.


----------



## avaya

Blizzard is doing a good job with balance. You guys are nuts


----------



## Benladesh

I think the balance is pretty solid. What people don't realize is that the metagame changes a lot. If a race finds a new, powerful strat, the other races cry OP when infact they should be thinking of ways to counter it.

11-12 minute roaches is a ridiculous build. Some people have started trying carriers to stop it, and have been quite successful because roaches can't attack air. Every strategy, every metagame has a weakness. Thats the point of SCII, the game and strategies constantly evolve to counter the latest strategies. The problem now is that people are too spoiled and QQ instead of actually playing the game.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> SC2 has more than 750K+ active players. That's more than the top 10 games on steam combined.
> If you ask me, with the recent switch of many pro BW players (and consequently, their fans who haven't switched to SC2 yet) it's about to get a whole lot more popular, even if only in South Korea.
> This doesn't mean Blizzard is doing a good job balance wise, they really need to start thinking changes through and listening to the pros more (the ones that aren't just QQing "the races I don't play are OP") if they want to keep the player base.


750K sounds like BS to me, the last time that I logged onto BNET it said there was only around 1,600 active players on the NA server I believe.. SC2 doesn't even compare to a game like League of Legends in terms of numbers of players at any point of time so I highly doubt that there are 750K SC2 players online on average.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> 750K sounds like BS to me, the last time that I logged onto BNET it said there was only around 1,600 active players on the NA server I believe.. SC2 doesn't even compare to a game like League of Legends in terms of numbers of players at any point of time so I highly doubt that there are 750K SC2 players online on average.


I didn't say online on average, active (in the last 7 days): http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/all/all/7


----------



## HarrisLam

this thread is suddenly going south even faster than the game for no reason lol.....


----------



## ntherblast

Those numbers don't mean much there is obviously a decline of players because I play 2v2 randoms and have noticed the wait times increase every season. Most players only log in just to use up their bonus pool anyway


----------



## Anti!!

Im sorry. But i had to skip the last twelve posts to scream. If you get rid of the zealot i quit!!!!!! They are THE AUIR warrior!!!!!!! They are not toss without the zealot. I dont want sc2 if we have to dumb down the differences between each race.

But i love you all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Not true, upgrades would be balanced between all of the races and you may think that it would be boring but I'd argue otherwise. I think that it would make the game more fun, strategically fufilling, and battles would be more micro dependent than they are now.
> As for the QQer that posted above me, I'll complain about SC2 all that I want. Personally, I'm glad that the game is dying. I hope that another top notch RTS takes its throne but that's unlikely.


I don't think you understand Starcraft II very well, if you did, you'd appreciate it more.


----------



## Insomnium

Just quit working on this please blizzard and give us the much needed warcraft 4 <3
Give us some heroes not unit spamming!
Give us fantasy settings not space!
Let the flameeeeeeeeee begin =p


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> EMP reveals hidden & instant damage so...
> Only because the standard Terran play is MMM or other Tier 2 units does not mean that a terran can't also have huge benefits if it's not being pressured... How about teching to BC's? Pretty good unit... Or Ravens: PDD and Seeker Missiles...
> Because it's BORING. And lame. Oh and just as broken because one tech tree would be the best...
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, upgrades would be balanced between all of the races and you may think that it would be boring but I'd argue otherwise. I think that it would make the game more fun, strategically fufilling, and battles would be more micro dependent than they are now.
> 
> As for the QQer that posted above me, I'll complain about SC2 all that I want. Personally, I'm glad that the game is dying. I hope that another top notch RTS takes its throne but that's unlikely.
Click to expand...

Like what? StarCraft 1? WC3? SupCom 1?

If you ever played SC1 you will know how imbalanced it was to begin with, but over time Blizzard molded it into the best RTS of it's time.
Blizzard is doing the same with SC2, I personally think the races are very balanced and each requires a different mind-set to play.
If you find the game hard, certain races doing something you can't, then that is your fault because it is completely possible to stop them doing that. You just need to know how to do it with your race.

If you are glad that the game is 'dying', ie losing like 10 'active' players a day, then whatever, that is your choice. I will just continue to watch hours of GSL and play SC2, knowing that is the greatest RTS ever made currently. So go take your hate somewhere else, where maybe some ignorant people may believe you. But right now, I cannot take any of your views seriously.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> SC2 has more than 750K+ active players. That's more than the top 10 games on steam combined.
> If you ask me, with the recent switch of many pro BW players (and consequently, their fans who haven't switched to SC2 yet) it's about to get a whole lot more popular, even if only in South Korea.
> This doesn't mean Blizzard is doing a good job balance wise, they really need to start thinking changes through and listening to the pros more (the ones that aren't just QQing "the races I don't play are OP") if they want to keep the player base.
> 
> 
> 
> 750K sounds like BS to me, the last time that I logged onto BNET it said there was only around 1,600 active players on the NA server I believe.. SC2 doesn't even compare to a game like League of Legends in terms of numbers of players at any point of time so I highly doubt that there are 750K SC2 players online on average.
Click to expand...

Dude no, like 1600 players? Your Bnet is probably broken. I see some ten thousand / a few hundred thousand on EU/NA/KR almost every time.


----------



## Anti!!

League of legends my ballz.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Insomnium*
> 
> Just quit working on this please blizzard and give us the much needed warcraft 4 <3
> Give us some heroes not unit spamming!
> Give us fantasy settings not space!
> Let the flameeeeeeeeee begin =p


Just go play LoL if you want a casual RTS like experience.


----------



## Insomnium

Quote:


> Just go play LoL if you want a casual RTS like experience.


First I was kidding played alot of sc2 and LMAO AT YOU, wc3 casuall? If you think wc3 is a casual rts you do not deserve to play rts or call yourself a pc gamer. Sigh new pc gamers these days.
Also never played lol and never will lower my self to that game.


----------



## Anti!!

Oh gracious peeps.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Insomnium*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Just go play LoL if you want a casual RTS like experience.
> 
> 
> 
> First I was kidding played alot of sc2 and LMAO AT YOU, wc3 casuall? If you think wc3 is a casual rts you do not deserve to play rts or call yourself a pc gamer. Sigh new pc gamers these days.
> Also never played lol and never will lower my self to that game.
Click to expand...

You obviously can't read and don't deserve to call yourself an English-speaker.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Insomnium*
> 
> Sigh new pc gamers these days.


New PC gamer? Son, I was playing WC long before it was hero based. I have a very long history of RTS in my blood.

http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809

I was playing Warcraft and Starcraft on routers on KALI.net back in the 90's.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol, wth is going on here?


----------



## Twistacles

Hey all, havent posted in a while.

Man. I dont even know what to think about the Queen change, seems so un-necessary. And toss gets more obs, great.

Nothing to address lategame Terran =/ Kind of frustrating. I just wish there was a way to outplay protoss by just out-macroing them like you can VS z


----------



## Insomnium

Quote:


> New PC gamer? Son, I was playing WC long before it was hero based. I have a very long history of RTS in my blood.


If this is true, why did you refer to me as a casual gamer when I suggested that they work on warcraft 4 sequal finally









Anyways was a joke, I do enjoy this game tho I cannot say I am very good, always float around the top of the gold leauge and every time I get into diamond I get put out. Guess I am not good enough to roam with the big dawgs, havent put in enough time and my micro is rather weak.

Was awsome at wc3 tho I really really miss the wc3 glory days. The days where you could destroy a decent to large sized army with 3 level 6 heroes with a bad as spell macro.


----------



## Fortunex

LoL is nothing like an RTS. If you want a casual RTS, just play SC2 and sit in bronze/silver. It doesn't have to be played competitively.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> EMP takes half you say?
> Well storm takes all so.....


Emp does 100 damage Storm does 80 damage if you sit in it like a tard and dont emp...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> SC2 is definitely dying. I saw the numbers posted over at TL and I don't have a direct link but it is losing players on a regular basis and HOTS might not even bring as many players back as you might think. One race having to damage or else they lose in the late game due to having inferior late game units is definitely imbalance. I think that you mis interpreted my post but SC2 is far from balanced. To be honest I'd rather each race be similar but have only minor differences and different balanced obtainable upgrades when it comes to their units. This would increase the balance of the game drastically, make it less luck based, and make games much more exciting to watch in my opinion.
> Why not make stalkers just as effective as marauders, and get rid of zealots for a ranged protoss unit that is simliar to the marine. Make them look different as to be pleasing to the eye but give each race a wide variety of upgrades that can be obtained to make gameplay between the balanced units and the strategy's that revolve around them interesting.
> To expand on this concept, why not make zerg the race that has units that have obtainable upgrades that allows them to duplicate themselves and increase their mobility, terran can be based around brute force and can have upgrades that increase the effectiveness of their weapons, damage, and squad tactics such as group aoe healing abilitys, protoss can be the race thats all about technology that relys on spell casters and expensive units that have a lot of capibilitys depending on what upgrades the player got for their units and their micro ability.
> All of the battles would be balanced out and exciting as if zerg has an upgrade that allows them to duplicate some of their units to increase their army size, terran has a counter ability that allows their infantry weapons to do a small amount of splash damage. This makes battles much more micro intensive, positioning would become even more important, strategy would become more important, and the game would be balanced on all levels.


You are suggesting changing almost everything there is. The game is not that far off balance and the game is NOT dying. A lot less people play 1v1 ladder, yes, but SC2 is growins as an E-sport because people who DONT play still WATCH. Starcraft 2 isnt going to die, its getting stronger.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> 750K sounds like BS to me, the last time that I logged onto BNET it said there was only around 1,600 active players on the NA server I believe.. SC2 doesn't even compare to a game like League of Legends in terms of numbers of players at any point of time so I highly doubt that there are 750K SC2 players online on average.


.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

....................................................

Active players =/= Currently online

LoL is free. LoL has more people. Yes.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Those numbers don't mean much there is obviously a decline of players because I play 2v2 randoms and have noticed the wait times increase every season. Most players only log in just to use up their bonus pool anyway


Yes there is a decline a players. Starcraft is not a game for most people to play because its hard if you play 1v1. It is very stressful and demanding like no other game I know. I personally dont know how or why people play team games though because its 95% rush with some lame early unit cheese.

Starcraft doesnt tell you you are a good boy. Starcraft keeps score and kicks you in the ass and makes you its *****. Once you hit masters league you actually have to invest time into the game beyond a few hours a week. One mistake makes you lose in a game of 15 minutes. Its super frustrating and ultra competitive. I love it.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah, not free, plus super high level, hard, and for some stressful. I doubt you will find as many threads on how to deal with ladder stress anywhere else.


----------



## avaya

I've never felt stressed laddering. I also don't care what rank I am, try to mimic standard strategies I read in TL threads or see in pro matches, and just try to improve. When I see dt's raping my mineral line while my army is far out, I pull scv's off and calmy 1a my army back home while starting turrets. After losing the game, watch the replay and figure out how I could have scouted better.

I am certain that I enjoy losing more than winning because it means I can watch the replay and learn something. When I win I think "well that was a waste of 15 minutes". I'm in masters and will probably never make GM though... if I was really trying hard to hit GM in x months then maybe it would be more stressful.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Hey all, havent posted in a while.
> Man. I dont even know what to think about the Queen change, seems so un-necessary. And toss gets more obs, great.
> Nothing to address lategame Terran =/ Kind of frustrating. I just wish there was a way to outplay protoss by just out-macroing them like you can VS z


Marine splitting and drops will decimate Protoss. It's really underrated. Toss are strong in a ball, they also have a hard time getting an economy going. Drop play will split their army and hurt their economy. A lot of Terrans seem to ignore drop play completely.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Marine splitting and drops will decimate Protoss. It's really underrated. Toss are strong in a ball, they also have a hard time getting an economy going. Drop play will split their army and hurt their economy. A lot of Terrans seem to ignore drop play completely.


No offense but most Terrans do not ignore drop play, and its still generally not enough. Not only that it's a lot harder than just sitting back, macroing, hitting F or T, and warping in units occasionally.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Marine splitting and drops will decimate Protoss. It's really underrated. Toss are strong in a ball, they also have a hard time getting an economy going. Drop play will split their army and hurt their economy. A lot of Terrans seem to ignore drop play completely.
> 
> 
> 
> No offense but most Terrans do not ignore drop play, and its still generally not enough. Not only that it's a lot harder than just sitting back, macroing, hitting F or T, and warping in units occasionally.
Click to expand...

Timings is a lot to do with 'f' and storms really dont do as much damage as you think.

Also drops are very, very hard to deal with on some maps. Especially cloud kingdom, drop in main and pressure at front = impossible to hold nat + main base when they rush you.

I don't think that Protoss is easier than Terran, I don' think that Zerg is easier than Protoss or Terran. I think they are all equal in difficulty so long as you know what you have to do with each race.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Timings is a lot to do with 'f' and storms really dont do as much damage as you think.
> Also drops are very, very hard to deal with on some maps. Especially cloud kingdom, drop in main and pressure at front = impossible to hold nat + main base when they rush you.
> I don't think that Protoss is easier than Terran, I don' think that Zerg is easier than Protoss or Terran. I think they are all equal in difficulty so long as you know what you have to do with each race.


It's the concepts of Protoss that I think are easy, but I can't comment if they actually are. Just in theory they seem easy. I was playing with Ratazul or whatever his SN was and he was telling me how easy it was to play toss compared to T and how he kinda hates protoss now ( and he plays toss ). Twisticles also switched from P to T and thinks P is easy. So it's just hard not to when everyone tells me P is easy that plays both.

Also, Cloud Kingdom?!?!?!?
Quote:


> For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom


Sauce


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Timings is a lot to do with 'f' and storms really dont do as much damage as you think.
> Also drops are very, very hard to deal with on some maps. Especially cloud kingdom, drop in main and pressure at front = impossible to hold nat + main base when they rush you.
> I don't think that Protoss is easier than Terran, I don' think that Zerg is easier than Protoss or Terran. I think they are all equal in difficulty so long as you know what you have to do with each race.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the concepts of Protoss that I think are easy, but I can't comment if they actually are. Just in theory they seem easy. I was playing with Ratazul or whatever his SN was and he was telling me how easy it was to play toss compared to T and how he kinda hates protoss now ( and he plays toss ). Twisticles also switched from P to T and thinks P is easy. So it's just hard not to when everyone tells me P is easy that plays both.
> 
> Also, Cloud Kingdom?!?!?!?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sauce
Click to expand...

Pssshhh they never get all-in'ed and crippled


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Pssshhh they never get all-in'ed and crippled


What do you mean?


----------



## Twistacles

Yeah. I played Toss for a year and was always in the highest league without knowing ANYTHING.

I didnt macro properly, have good expansion timings, have good micro, have any game sense. I never lost PvT, even a year and half ago when it was 'imbalanced'. It's so easy to hold any terran agression with 1 gate expand and then you can do ANYTHING. Double robo with collosus into third base with hts... like, the only hard part is splitting units to defend drops in midgame and thats it. The rest is faceroll easy.

Zerg and Terran require so much more of everything its almost as if protoss players arent even playing the same game. Why can a Z/T offrace as P and be AS HIGHLY RATED OR MORE and when a P offraces they tank a league at least?

I'm not saying it's imbalanced at the high level, i'm just saying its so much easier to play P that this causes imbalanced at levels of hugely imperfect play (under GM) WHICH IS 99.9% OF THE PLAYERBASE


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Zerg and Terran require so much more of everything its almost as if protoss players arent even playing the same game. Why can a Z/T offrace as P and be AS HIGHLY RATED OR MORE and when a P offraces they tank a league at least?


I play zerg at a higher level than protoss and I've played at least as much protoss. It's hard to believe you are being serious.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I play zerg at a higher level than protoss and I've played at least as much protoss. It's hard to believe you are being serious.


He has to serious. 1 gate FE into anything with bad macro, micro and no game sense guarantees never loosing PvT.


----------



## DoomDash

He is at least serious for him. There was a good thread on reddit about random players best and worst races, and Protoss was majority of the best, with Terran majority of the worst. Obviously its not that black and white but I think there is a lot of really silly things about the way Protoss was designed.

I'm still itching for that Colossus removal for the Reaver, since everyone thinks the Colossus is a dumb scrubby unit pretty much.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4926623691


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Pssshhh they never get all-in'ed and crippled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean?
Click to expand...

Meh I had a crap game on there.

I scouted no gas + reactor on rax. Quick expo? So I go 1 gate expo.
Nope, awhile later as my expo finishes I get hit by a 3 rax marauder w/conc. shells + marines + scvs all-in.

I must scout less









I held it off, but only to die later on due to a crap eco and less units.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Yeah. I played Toss for a year and was always in the highest league without knowing ANYTHING.
> 
> I didnt macro properly, have good expansion timings, have good micro, have any game sense. I never lost PvT, even a year and half ago when it was 'imbalanced'. It's so easy to hold any terran agression with 1 gate expand and then you can do ANYTHING. Double robo with collosus into third base with hts... like, the only hard part is splitting units to defend drops in midgame and thats it. The rest is faceroll easy.
> 
> Zerg and Terran require so much more of everything its almost as if protoss players arent even playing the same game. Why can a Z/T offrace as P and be AS HIGHLY RATED OR MORE and when a P offraces they tank a league at least?
> 
> I'm not saying it's imbalanced at the high level, i'm just saying its so much easier to play P that this causes imbalanced at levels of hugely imperfect play (under GM) WHICH IS 99.9% OF THE PLAYERBASE


Lol no, do people not aggro you at all? Because then it should be easy. Zerg early aggro is like broken.

Also my friend is masters for Protoss, switched to Terran and got a little bit higher in masters, then switched to Zerg and got into high diamond.
I started with plat Terran, switched to Protoss, got into diamond and switched to Zerg and stayed in diamond.

It doesn't matter about the races to which you are good at, it matters about the player. MC can play Protoss and Zerg really well, does that mean that Terran is harder to learn? No. TLO can play all the races about the same.

One race may be easier to one person than another, whereas that race may be hard to play as/against to other people. It's not about the races - it's about the people.


----------



## avaya

After patch 1.3.1 (when amulet ht upgrade that gave +25 templar energy was removed) everyone was complaining that terran were too strong and that tvp was broken. Below are my ranks of every buff and nerf that has impacted pvt since. "1" is minor impact and "4" is significant. The amulet ht upgrade removal would be a 4 on this scale, but I only included changes after that patch, and none of these changes are equal to amulet removal.

*PvT buffs since 1.3.1*
EMP radius 2.0 to 1.5 (3)
Immortal range 5 to 6 (3)
Archon range increased 2 to 3 (3)
Blue Flame damage 10 to 5 (2)
Warp Prism shield 40 to 100 (2)
Forge Upgrade costs decreased (2)
Mule only returns 30 from gold patch (2)
Barracks build time 60 to 65 (2)
Sentry train time 42 to 37 (1)
Snipe damage does less to most units, slightly more to templars (1)

*PvT nerfs since 1.3.1*
Blink research 110 to 140 (1)
Ghost cost 200/100 instead of 150/150 (1)
Pylon radius 7.5 to 6.5 (1)

I agree that pvt is favored to p by about 5 points, but 5 points is still very close in the broad scheme of things. Maybe I should make TL thread with this and see how angry everyone gets.


----------



## DoomDash

Was Archon changed to massive after that patch? Because not being slowed by concussive shells is huge.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> He has to serious. 1 gate FE into anything with bad macro, micro and no game sense guarantees never *loosing* PvT.


I disagree

My 2 latest games have been 1 gate FE and I've lost both of them. I'm not that good of a player but i understand macro, tech paths .etc
My win rate in PVT with a 1 gate FE is about 50%.

I tried to play terran a few games with no knowledge. I was able to get to 4-5 bases, crazy economy and basically unlimited supply in all those games.

Also: it's losing...


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I play zerg at a higher level than protoss and I've played at least as much protoss. It's hard to believe you are being serious.


Im speaking to my experience im not saying im not massively biased =P dont take it personal


----------



## Dr216

My figures show me as having the highest win rate playing as T and lowest as Z but there is only 3% total spread, in terms of time spent practicing my highest is Z and then T with P seeing very little love outside of my random laddering.

To be fair though the reason my Z is lowest is more or less entirely down to ZvZ which is my weakest machup by far always has been. Hate ZvZ to play love watching it though its just so damn unforgiving.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Was Archon changed to massive after that patch? Because not being slowed by concussive shells is huge.


Yes, inadvertently missed that one.


----------



## HarrisLam

i expect this thread to be dead for 10 days


----------



## CravinR1

CC 2012 go fold for OCNChimpin


----------



## Anti!!

PSSHHHH mayne!!! wont be dead.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i expect this thread to be dead for 10 days










so whats everyones favorite new D3 portrait? I like the anonymous marine (Tyrael) though the wizard templar looks far better than I expected... meh I have to go out today so likely won't get mine till tomorrow







(hopefully losing achievements and everything get fixed by then)


----------



## avaya

Went 3-0 in tvp's on ladder last night. All 3 were 1 rax fast expand into 2 more barracks to double gas to reactored starport with double medivac drop of about equal number marine/marauder while taking a fast 3rd and fast second starport. After the 3rd is up, go into non-stop scan & drop mode so he can never move out. Don't need ghosts if you can snipe the templar archive & citadel.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Went 3-0 in tvp's on ladder last night. All 3 were 1 rax fast expand into 2 more barracks to double gas to reactored starport with double medivac drop of about equal number marine/marauder while taking a fast 3rd and fast second starport. After the 3rd is up, go into non-stop scan & drop mode so he can never move out. Don't need ghosts if you can snipe the templar archive & citadel.


Ooooooo sounds interesting. Can i has build order?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Ooooooo sounds interesting. Can i has build order?


The most standard build there is.

10 depot
12 rax
17 OC
~3:40 CC
bunker
depot
@300 minerals 2x rax
@150 minerals 2xgas
OC
@300 minerals 2x rax
after 1 round of marines 1 tech-lab 2 reactors
@100 gas factory, 3rd gas
@100 gas stim
~7:30 eng bay
~7:50 starport, reactor on factory, swap
~10:00 move out with about 100 food, stim done and 2 medivacs with +1 finishing soon after
add 2 rax and 3rd CC
add another eng bay, armory and 2nd starport


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> The most standard build there is.
> 10 depot
> 12 rax
> 17 OC
> ~3:40 CC
> bunker
> depot
> @150 minerals 2xgas
> OC
> @300 minerals 2x rax
> after 1 round of marines 1 tech-lab 2 reactors
> @100 gas factory, 3rd gas
> @100 gas stim
> ~7:30 eng bay
> ~7:50 starport, reactor on factory, swap
> ~10:00 move out with about 100 food, stim done and 2 medivacs with +1 finishing soon after
> add 2 rax and 3rd CC
> add another eng bay, armory and 2nd starport


Im a zergy..

But thank you for the build.


----------



## poroboszcz

I actually messed up. You take 2 rax before gas and OC.


----------



## Sainesk

I prefer to get double gas before the double rax. I feel that way I am less behind on tech, and can still hold pretty easily by just building a bunch of bunkers if I spot my opponent doing anything unusual. Sure I get a slightly delayed bio-ball, but I find the earlier siege tech can really help in TvT and TvZ...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I actually messed up. You take 2 rax before gas and OC.


Ermm. Could you edit that post then pls? Im confused as to where to make the change. Ill just print then hahaha


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I prefer to get double gas before the double rax. I feel that way I am less behind on tech, and can still hold pretty easily by just building a bunch of bunkers if I spot my opponent doing anything unusual. Sure I get a slightly delayed bio-ball, but I find the earlier siege tech can really help in TvT and TvZ...


Actually some terrans get gas after OC. Gas before adding rax is really early and potentially unsafe against some early all-ins. If you want faster tech you can get factory before add-ons. My TvZ and TvT is weak though as I generally go bio and I don't have korean micro.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Ermm. Could you edit that post then pls? Im confused as to where to make the change. Ill just print then hahaha


I have. Should be CC, bunker, depot, 2xrax, 2xgas, OC with constant marines and SCVs.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Actually some terrans get gas after OC. Gas before adding rax is really early and potentially unsafe against some early all-ins. If you want faster tech you can get factory before add-ons. My TvZ and TvT is weak though as I generally go bio and I don't have korean micro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have. Should be CC, bunker, depot, 2xrax, 2xgas, OC with constant marines and SCVs.


THank you very much.


----------



## avaya

Yes should be gas then the 2nd and 3rd rax.

If you spot nexus-first it's safe to go gasless to 3 orbital's (off 1 rax) then 3x more bunkers, 2x gas, and 4x more bunkers (total of 8) while slow teching to medivac (most early gas goes to marauder & tech lab upgrades).

Anyone below masters level should just go factory tech IMO. Thor/Hellion/Banshee is hard for protoss to stop without masters level templar micro IMO. Have to be very aggressive with expansions using this method.


----------



## CravinR1

How do you select a unit, then add it to a control group?

IE, if I warp in stalkers and control click them how could I add them to control group one?


----------



## Anti!!

select them then shift 6 if they are in control group 6


----------



## Yukss

bad lose straigth 2/8 but i keep being top 3 lol XD (forever gold)


----------



## Kreeker

Kind of off-topic, but has anyone ever tried to remove an authenticator from their account using this https://us.battle.net/account/support/remove-authenticator.html? How long did it take to get a response?

I probably picked the wrong time to do it with the release of Diablo 3...


----------



## Anti!!

Hmmm. Anyone wanna watch my terrible skillz? Macro was so terrra bad. First day back trying to play..









It was a mid masters terran i beat.

http://drop.sc/181917

Also here is a little desperate queen action for you terran haterz. hahahaha. Just for the record i had to go queen cause mutas were getting pwned by pheonix and voids. lol

http://drop.sc/182004

Happy watching

@ Kreeker

EDIT: I had to cause i returned my phone. It takes a few days. 3 if i remember


----------



## Ghooble

Saw this and laughed more than I probably should have..


----------



## CravinR1

Can someone explain to me why this :


Is better than This:



I know the theory is to use the nexus and get the wall up faster, but the canon on the ramp behind the forge/gate gets hits while they go up the ramp and while they go by and seems the first picture allows a much larger surround. Also roaches can stay out of the range of the canon and snipe the nexus ??


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Better early pool defense, less minerals invested into wall


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Better early pool defense, less minerals invested into wall


I guess at Plat and lower level it doesn't matter, but I have better luck with wall #2

I try to 15 nexus, then forge and gate asap. Then cannon positioned like in the picture, then add cyber, pylon, cannon.

But if they do a early pool and I have the canon up it stops run bys or at most 1 or 2 lings get into the base. Then I can close the wall pretty easily.

I did a game yesterday with the first wall and I blocked his expo so he roached me and I lost my Nexus.

What should I have done differently this game? PvZ is my BIGGEST weakness.

Antiga Shipyard (9).zip 47k .zip file


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I guess at Plat and lower level it doesn't matter, but I have better luck with wall #2
> I try to 15 nexus, then forge and gate asap. Then cannon positioned like in the picture, then add cyber, pylon, cannon.
> But if they do a early pool and I have the canon up it stops run bys or at most 1 or 2 lings get into the base. Then I can close the wall pretty easily.
> I did a game yesterday with the first wall and I blocked his expo so he roached me and I lost my Nexus.
> What should I have done differently this game? PvZ is my BIGGEST weakness.
> 
> Antiga Shipyard (9).zip 47k .zip file


You watch mine ill watch yours. Lol


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Better early pool defense, less minerals invested into wall
> 
> 
> 
> I guess at Plat and lower level it doesn't matter, but I have better luck with wall #2
> 
> I try to 15 nexus, then forge and gate asap. Then cannon positioned like in the picture, then add cyber, pylon, cannon.
> 
> But if they do a early pool and I have the canon up it stops run bys or at most 1 or 2 lings get into the base. Then I can close the wall pretty easily.
> 
> I did a game yesterday with the first wall and I blocked his expo so he roached me and I lost my Nexus.
> 
> What should I have done differently this game? PvZ is my BIGGEST weakness.
> 
> Antiga Shipyard (9).zip 47k .zip file
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Can someone explain to me why this :
> 
> 
> Is better than This:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the theory is to use the nexus and get the wall up faster, but the canon on the ramp behind the forge/gate gets hits while they go up the ramp and while they go by and seems the first picture allows a much larger surround. Also roaches can stay out of the range of the canon and snipe the nexus ??


It's just pure preferences. The one isn't better than the other, also I've never seen it done quite the way you did it there. Usually the forge and the gateway are to the front, tanking damage. (Like you did in the replay you provided)

Rule of thumb with FFE is to take double gas AFTER your second pylon (excluding pylon blocks). Also do not (ever) chronoboost warpgate or +1 unless you are aiming for a very specific timing. Chronoboost all your probes.
To hold of the roach aggression:
You were high on gas and low on minerals -> more sentries, not zealots. You 'focus fired' with your units which allowed them to be sniped when you were not looking. Just a-move and let them abuse the range advantage. Try to lure the roaches into the cannons.

Oh and don't forget to check your gas saturation.

I like your aggression after holding the attack off, but you should have built probes in the background. By not doing that you just had a four gate all-in 8 minutes into the game. (Granted, with +1) (Small tip: go behind the mineral line, less surface area for lings. Also let your zealots reign free as much as possible, they will reign havoc in the mineral line.)
You were floating 800 gas when you took your third gas and 700 when you took your fourth. You were not teching so had no need for all those geysers. This is also probably why you felt like you needed desperation DT's. (SWEET MOTHER OF 19 KILL DT!)


----------



## CravinR1

Yeah all that makes sense. The aggression really paid off by sniping his third and I killed a few drones and made him get attack units instead of powering drones and pulling more ahead. The way I position in the picture was due to me not being able to put the gate up front due to not enough room. I try to position the canon close to the nexus to give coverage so lings can't surround a far corner out of canon range.

Its hard to remember to chrono boost probes while you're doing aggression. And I agree I shouldv'e went behind the mineral line, I noticed that when I wateched the replay.

Those DTs did win me the game. He was attacking my front and those 6 dts killed ALL his probes and sniped 2 of his 3 hatches.


----------



## Sainesk

I would never leave a cyber core exposed at the front like that. It's one of, if not the most important building you have as P.

As for the roach thing, i'd argue you're doing the building placement wrong, it should be more like this:


----------



## 13321G4

Guys I need your help! I can't watch the gsl finals!

*gasp*

Can someone please record it!

I have no idea if it is possible but I would be ever grateful


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I would never leave a cyber core exposed at the front like that. It's one of, if not the most important building you have as P.
> As for the roach thing, i'd argue you're doing the building placement wrong, it should be more like this:


this is true 1+

i always do this agains Z

9 pylon
13 forge
15 nexus
16 cannon
16 gate
17 pylon

is safe for me to expand early with this is i dont see any sings of rush


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Yeah all that makes sense. The aggression really paid off by sniping his third and I killed a few drones and made him get attack units instead of powering drones and pulling more ahead. The way I position in the picture was due to me not being able to put the gate up front due to not enough room. I try to position the canon close to the nexus to give coverage so lings can't surround a far corner out of canon range.
> 
> Its hard to remember to chrono boost probes while you're doing aggression. And I agree I shouldv'e went behind the mineral line, I noticed that when I wateched the replay.
> 
> Those DTs did win me the game. He was attacking my front and those 6 dts killed ALL his probes and sniped 2 of his 3 hatches.


Desperation DT's are best DT's


----------



## avaya

Any forge fast expand that needs 2 cannons is failed. I don't think pro's FFE near the nexus like that, especially given that the current metagame has zerg responding with a fast 3rd. Just do it at the top of the ramp!


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> Any forge fast expand that needs 2 cannons is failed. I don't think pro's FFE near the nexus like that, especially given that the current metagame has zerg responding with a fast 3rd. Just do it at the top of the ramp!


What league are you? I can show you a thousand replays from pros including whitera, hero, huk that do forge fe near near nexus like that.

Are you above silver?


----------



## Anti!!

He is masters i believe.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I guess at Plat and lower level it doesn't matter, but I have better luck with wall #2
> I try to 15 nexus, then forge and gate asap. Then cannon positioned like in the picture, then add cyber, pylon, cannon.
> But if they do a early pool and I have the canon up it stops run bys or at most 1 or 2 lings get into the base. Then I can close the wall pretty easily.
> I did a game yesterday with the first wall and I blocked his expo so he roached me and I lost my Nexus.
> What should I have done differently this game? PvZ is my BIGGEST weakness.
> 
> Antiga Shipyard (9).zip 47k .zip file


Nexus first vs a pool first build is exceptionally greedy. The Zerg can pull all their drones and make a couple of lings, rally and win. This may not have attributed to your loss but it's definitely something to keep in mind.

But about this replay, you're lucky this guy was bad. Blind Roach Warren without scouting you first. You lost because of insufficient scouting. You didn't see whether or not he put a third down, or even if he had a natural up. Had you seen either, you would have known if you were safe to macro or if you had to put up more cannons.

Additional edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is, get your opening right, scout sufficiently, and macro well. That in itself will wipe out most of your woes.


----------



## connectwise

O m G

Did you guys just saw what I just saw in the GSL finals with MVP vs Squartle? Supreme late game craziness...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> O m G
> Did you guys just saw what I just saw in the GSL finals with MVP vs Squartle? Supreme late game craziness...


No i was to busy kicking stuff cause the wanna charge for standard definition.!!

On another note. Could someone watch the two replays i posted? I wanna share my return to sc2 with someone. I know they are crappy games as far as perfect mechanics but they were entertaining from my camera view. Lol!!


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Nexus first vs a pool first build is exceptionally greedy. The Zerg can pull all their drones and make a couple of lings, rally and win. This may not have attributed to your loss but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
> But about this replay, you're lucky this guy was bad. Blind Roach Warren without scouting you first. You lost because of insufficient scouting. You didn't see whether or not he put a third down, or even if he had a natural up. Had you seen either, you would have known if you were safe to macro or if you had to put up more cannons.
> Additional edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is, get your opening right, scout sufficiently, and macro well. That in itself will wipe out most of your woes.


I actually won but if he had of continued rallying units instead of dropping 2 hatches he could've beaten me


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I actually won but if he had of continued rallying units instead of dropping 2 hatches he could've beaten me


That's not the point. It doesn't matter if you win or lose after that point in time, because that never should have happened, had you scouted the other two bases. You're playing to fix your mistakes, not to win or lose. Winning or losing is irrelevant right now because your mechanics are sub par. Once your mechanics are well enough, THEN you can start to worry about what you should do in games. But for now, scout efficiently, keep your Chrono going (another thing I see you don't do), and don't get supply blocked.

Apologies if I sound like an ass but I've lost many games because of inefficient scouting, and I'm just trying to pass on the knowledge.

If you need a Diamond Zerg practice partner, feel free to add me on NA. SpaceCore.941, I'd be happy to grind out some games with you.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> On another note. Could someone watch the two replays i posted? I wanna share my return to sc2 with someone. I know they are crappy games as far as perfect mechanics but they were entertaining from my camera view. Lol!!


Random things maybe worth discussing about those games:








The ZvP
1.Late Speed research, may have been useful to just runby into his main.
2. no upgrades (y u no?!)
3. no infestors, corruptors or hydras. The counter to the 3 base roach build (though yours wasn't exactly that, but that would have destroyed him in this game I reckon) is good stargate play, so if I couldn't scout and had to blind counter a 2 base P army as a 3 base Z i'd make anti-air (probably few infestors (say 5?), with corruptor/muta mix depending on if I spot what his army composition is).
4. After you lost your third, you never made a new base until you practically already won. I would've personally taken 2 new ones with the hopes my opponent is silly and can't split his army (like your opponent in this game








) and cancelled one if needed. If he would have contained you for a little longer it could've been a loss for you.

The ZvT
1. Overlord spread - as soon as I would've seen that first medivac and had I not already had an overlord where it came from, i'd rally one there. Sure there's a chance of a viking coming but I feel the risk of pulling it back in time and my queens hopefully saving it is worth taking to be better prepared for something like what happened in this game. Still no overlord there after that Thor/Medivac/Banshee attack or spore crawler closer to the edge of base...
2. Almost nitpicking, but slightly behind on upgrades
(2.5: how is that T masters, maybe he was just having a bad game but doesn't repair mech units, pulls back in a base trade he would have won etc.)

Typing this, I just imagined someone like Doom or Hummingbird analyzing one of my replays... "hold on, I need to reserve the next 10 pages of this thread to have room to tell you what you did wrong"


----------



## Ghooble

You guys watch the Huk vs Vibe NASL match yesterday? That was awesome


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Random things maybe worth discussing about those games:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ZvP
> 1.Late Speed research, may have been useful to just runby into his main.
> 2. no upgrades (y u no?!)
> 3. no infestors, corruptors or hydras. The counter to the 3 base roach build (though yours wasn't exactly that, but that would have destroyed him in this game I reckon) is good stargate play, so if I couldn't scout and had to blind counter a 2 base P army as a 3 base Z i'd make anti-air (probably few infestors (say 5?), with corruptor/muta mix depending on if I spot what his army composition is).
> 4. After you lost your third, you never made a new base until you practically already won. I would've personally taken 2 new ones with the hopes my opponent is silly and can't split his army (like your opponent in this game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and cancelled one if needed. If he would have contained you for a little longer it could've been a loss for you.
> The ZvT
> 1. Overlord spread - as soon as I would've seen that first medivac and had I not already had an overlord where it came from, i'd rally one there. Sure there's a chance of a viking coming but I feel the risk of pulling it back in time and my queens hopefully saving it is worth taking to be better prepared for something like what happened in this game. Still no overlord there after that Thor/Medivac/Banshee attack or spore crawler closer to the edge of base...
> 2. Almost nitpicking, but slightly behind on upgrades
> (2.5: how is that T masters, maybe he was just having a bad game but doesn't repair mech units, pulls back in a base trade he would have won etc.)
> Typing this, I just imagined someone like Doom or Hummingbird analyzing one of my replays... "hold on, I need to reserve the next 10 pages of this thread to have room to tell you what you did wrong"


XD!!! totally agree. haha Thanks for watching!

You can look up that T's name. He was totally masters. I believe that was a mid diamond game for him.. lol If i had not countered i woulda been toast im afraid.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> What league are you? I can show you a thousand replays from pros including whitera, hero, huk that do forge fe near near nexus like that.
> Are you above silver?


I'm masters and always do it at top of ramp. I'd be too afriad of roaches to do it near nexus like that.


----------



## SirWaWa

loving the exclusive portraits that came with CE D3


----------



## yks

yo, where can i watch the GSL finals with mvp and squirtle?


----------



## Anti!!

Ohhh the protoss woes..

I was playing against a masters toss and he ffe. Then snipes my 3rd with zealots. Maybe 3 drones. I rebuild it and take a fourth. Go into mutas kill all his probes in his main and natural. He is already going carriers voids mothership. Sigh. I keep him to three bases while i have 4 saturated and two taken. I then snipe most his probes at third and deny 4th over and over all the while trying to counter and slow him down some how... but to no avail. I eventually run outta money just to die..


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Three base Protoss takes at least 5-6 base Zerg to kill. Two base Protoss is fairly reasonable but once they get that third up, it takes so much to kill them.

Early Zealot pressure is easy enough to scout and stop, just look at the gas in his natural and deny the forward Pylon.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Three base Protoss takes at least 5-6 base Zerg to kill. Two base Protoss is fairly reasonable but once they get that third up, it takes so much to kill them.
> Early Zealot pressure is easy enough to scout and stop, just look at the gas in his natural and deny the forward Pylon.


Yeah It's very hard to stop a 3 base Toss but as a protoss. i can assure you that getting to 3 base safely is very hard too.
Terran and Zerg can get bases up and running very quickly. I feel like its difficult as a protoss to balance economy and army. It seems to really be one or the other until late game.


----------



## Anti!!

Hmm. Good insight. I know its easy to stop. I just seem to always miss the timing. lol I know its comming. Im just to dumb to metagame it i guess. lol


----------



## Sybr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> I feel like its difficult as a protoss to balance economy and army. It seems to really be one or the other until late game.


Well, I am/was (BF3/D3 kinda prevent me from playing SC2) a plat zerg player and I have a very hard time balancing eco/army


----------



## Yukss

i wanna play now...


----------



## Anti!!

Good lets keep this active. Screw d3. Lol


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Good lets keep this active. Screw d3. Lol


The novelty wears off pretty fast. Started 1v1ing again tonight. Beat two top plats and lost to a gold


----------



## Alex132

D3 has pretty much stopped me from playing SC2 completely.


----------



## Anti!!

Probably would me to, but I dont own it so. SCREW D3! lol

Was gonna 1v1 last night, but work work work work work..


----------



## avaya

I'm in the process of upgrading my rig and switching from a i7 920 @ 3ghz to a 3770k at 4.2ghz made streaming sc2 much much more playable. I had assumed my wireless internet connection was the bottleneck (causing a ~500ms delay between action & response), but I think it was the processor... either that or streaming software has really improved over the last year. In either case it's awesome to be able to stream with virtually the same lag/fps/settings. Have an Asus gtx 670 on the way which will be the final component so I'll finally be able to stream above "low" graphics settings.

Anyone want to try to arrange an overclock.net official play time on the NA servers? I could do Thursday's pretty much anytime after 5pm CST.


----------



## snelan

So in my recent ZvTs I have been slowly dying to continuos marine tank pushes. At first I can just use blings to deal the damage, but when the terran has 3/3 and more tanks it gets much harder. I've made the much needed transition from the old Muta/Ling/Bling to Infestor/Ling/Some Blings, and I think the problem is my tech switch to T3. Most of the time when I am dying is when I have exhausted resources from about 5 bases, and simply run out of money to use ling infestor.

So the key problems in my adaptation to Infestor style are:
1) When do I tech switch to ultras, and what do I do in the transitionary period? I hate blords in ZvT because it is impossible to fungal all of the marines if he just splits and stims under the blords. So I am trying to make use of mass ultras, as I feel that people think ultras suck because they only have 5 out on the field at most, while with blords they'd have about 20.

2) When I have T3 5/3 ultras, what should my army comp be? 25% Infestors, 50% Ultras, 20% Lings, 5% Queens?

3) How do I harass with lings and infestors, assuming he makes missile turrets so I can't just derp into his base burrowed.

4) How do I gain map control besides just using towers, I feel like if I move out with my whole army he'll just drop me, and if I leave things to deal with drops I won't be able to fight his main army.

5) How can I deny bases with this? Yes dropping creep and burrowed lings denies it for a good 15 seconds, but how do I continually deny his expos, taking into consideration I can't have my whole army at his base, as stated in the previous point.

6) Finally, when do I take my third, since most Terrans expand around 4:30. I have been trying a quick third, but it means I am behind on early tech, and if I scout a push, I have to go out of my way to make lings, which negates the early third I just took.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> So in my recent ZvTs I have been slowly dying to continuos marine tank pushes. At first I can just use blings to deal the damage, but when the terran has 3/3 and more tanks it gets much harder. I've made the much needed transition from the old Muta/Ling/Bling to Infestor/Ling/Some Blings, and I think the problem is my tech switch to T3. Most of the time when I am dying is when I have exhausted resources from about 5 bases, and simply run out of money to use ling infestor.
> So the key problems in my adaptation to Infestor style are:
> 1) When do I tech switch to ultras, and what do I do in the transitionary period? I hate blords in ZvT because it is impossible to fungal all of the marines if he just splits and stims under the blords. So I am trying to make use of mass ultras, as I feel that people think ultras suck because they only have 5 out on the field at most, while with blords they'd have about 20.
> 2) When I have T3 5/3 ultras, what should my army comp be? 25% Infestors, 50% Ultras, 20% Lings, 5% Queens?
> 3) How do I harass with lings and infestors, assuming he makes missile turrets so I can't just derp into his base burrowed.
> 4) How do I gain map control besides just using towers, I feel like if I move out with my whole army he'll just drop me, and if I leave things to deal with drops I won't be able to fight his main army.
> 5) How can I deny bases with this? Yes dropping creep and burrowed lings denies it for a good 15 seconds, but how do I continually deny his expos, taking into consideration I can't have my whole army at his base, as stated in the previous point.
> 6) Finally, when do I take my third, since most Terrans expand around 4:30. I have been trying a quick third, but it means I am behind on early tech, and if I scout a push, I have to go out of my way to make lings, which negates the early third I just took.


What league are you?

1. It should never be hard to fungal all the marines. You should do some practice engagements or something, because imo Brood Lords are infinitely better (minus mobility). You said "he just splits and stims under the blords", you should have more than enough Infestors to just lay down the fungals one after another. The only thing that should be hitting your Broods are Vikings.

2. As many as you can afford, honestly. As many as the big hitting units as possible, then cushion the rest of your supply count with lings.

3. You don't. Denying his expos are the only thing you can do, and the only thing you SHOULD do. This is the disadvantage to the Infestor style of play. If you want to harass, you should go Muta.

4. Creep. Tons and tons of creep

5. Burrow some banelings at the mineral line, or ling runbys right after he drops that expo, before the base is a planetary.

6. Depends what opening they do. After the Queen buff I've seen gasless openings become quite popular, so I usually take a 5-6 minute third, since Hellions don't come out till around 6-7.

Do you have any replays? I'd love to take a look at them







ZvT is my best and favorite matchup and I'd love to help.

Also, at what time do you usually tech to Hive?


----------



## duhjuh

*not enough minerals*


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> What league are you?
> 1. It should never be hard to fungal all the marines. You should do some practice engagements or something, because imo Brood Lords are infinitely better (minus mobility). You said "he just splits and stims under the blords", you should have more than enough Infestors to just lay down the fungals one after another. The only thing that should be hitting your Broods are Vikings.
> 2. As many as you can afford, honestly. As many as the big hitting units as possible, then cushion the rest of your supply count with lings.
> 3. You don't. Denying his expos are the only thing you can do, and the only thing you SHOULD do. This is the disadvantage to the Infestor style of play. If you want to harass, you should go Muta.
> 4. Creep. Tons and tons of creep
> 5. Burrow some banelings at the mineral line, or ling runbys right after he drops that expo, before the base is a planetary.
> 6. Depends what opening they do. After the Queen buff I've seen gasless openings become quite popular, so I usually take a 5-6 minute third, since Hellions don't come out till around 6-7.
> Do you have any replays? I'd love to take a look at them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZvT is my best and favorite matchup and I'd love to help.
> Also, at what time do you usually tech to Hive?


I'm mid diamond, and I think the problem might of just been in the first step, not enough infestors, not enough blords. I usually die right after I get about 6 blords, ~ 8 infestors, and a billion lings. I think instead I'm gonna defend with those lings until I have >20 blords and >20 infestors.

I usually tech to hive around 14 mins, but make T3 units much later, around 20 mins or so. I mainly just use the hive for 3/3 and the +20% ling attack speed.

EDIT: By mid diamond, I mean my mechanics, macro and micro are diamond level, but with every league change, there is a change in strategy and style, and I came from plat like 2 weeks ago, so I need more strategy.


----------



## snelan

Double Post


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> I'm mid diamond, and I think the problem might of just been in the first step, not enough infestors, not enough blords. I usually die right after I get about 6 blords, ~ 8 infestors, and a billion lings. I think instead I'm gonna defend with those lings until I have >20 blords and >20 infestors.
> I usually tech to hive around 14 mins, but make T3 units much later, around 20 mins or so. I mainly just use the hive for 3/3 and the +20% ling attack speed.
> EDIT: By mid diamond, I mean my mechanics, macro and micro are diamond level, but with every league change, there is a change in strategy and style, and I came from plat like 2 weeks ago, so I need more strategy.


How many bases are you usually on at this point? I'm gonna assume that your macro is okay and gas is always near 0. If you have around 4-6 bases you should have no problem getting a good gas income and popping around 8-10 Brood Lords at a time. Your Infestor count should be at least 10. 14 minutes is okay for Hive, I usually aim for 12 minutes if I scout greed.

I'm mid Diamond myself, but I'd say my ZvT is low Master level, but both my ZvP and ZvZ are terrible, with those two matchups keeping my MMR at Diamond.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> How many bases are you usually on at this point? I'm gonna assume that your macro is okay and gas is always near 0. If you have around 4-6 bases you should have no problem getting a good gas income and popping around 8-10 Brood Lords at a time. Your Infestor count should be at least 10. 14 minutes is okay for Hive, I usually aim for 12 minutes if I scout greed.
> I'm mid Diamond myself, but I'd say my ZvT is low Master level, but both my ZvP and ZvZ are terrible, with those two matchups keeping my MMR at Diamond.


Yea, I've been working way to much my ZvZ and ZvP, and basically never loose those, but I still play ZvT like I did in plat. I'm usually on about 4 or 5 bases at this point.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> I'm in the process of upgrading my rig and switching from a i7 920 @ 3ghz to a 3770k at 4.2ghz made streaming sc2 much much more playable. I had assumed my wireless internet connection was the bottleneck (causing a ~500ms delay between action & response), but I think it was the processor... either that or streaming software has really improved over the last year. In either case it's awesome to be able to stream with virtually the same lag/fps/settings. Have an Asus gtx 670 on the way which will be the final component so I'll finally be able to stream above "low" graphics settings.
> Anyone want to try to arrange an overclock.net official play time on the NA servers? I could do Thursday's pretty much anytime after 5pm CST.


Thursdays eh?

I could use having my butt kicked. lol


----------



## CravinR1

Never ceases to amaze me that Terrans will go 1-1-1 and try to macro out of it.

Cloud Kingdom LE (17) PvT gold vs 1-1-1.zip 37k .zip file


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Never ceases to amaze me that Terrans will go 1-1-1 and try to macro out of it.
> 
> Cloud Kingdom LE (17) PvT gold vs 1-1-1.zip 37k .zip file


Why should you ever be amazed at Gold level play?

EDIT: Also, why would you publicly post your BM?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Why should you ever be amazed at Gold level play?
> EDIT: Also, why would you publicly post your BM?


typing get the f out is bm?

Is the least BM i've ever done

1-1-1 is BM


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> typing get the f out is bm?
> Is the least BM i've ever done
> 1-1-1 is BM


*From a protoss standpoint*
1-1-1 isn't BM.
Typing that is.


----------



## yks

if builds were BM, i'd be idra.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> typing get the f out is bm?
> Is the least BM i've ever done
> 1-1-1 is BM


I honestly can't believe what I just read. An all in is a perfectly acceptable build. Your opponent will do whatever it takes to win, and he tried to execute that strategy. Then you flame him for using his strategy, telling him to "get the f out". That's equal or worse to an offense gg.

So yes, it's near the worst kind of BM. I'm surprised your opponent even said gg after that.


----------



## Djmatrix32

I just picked up the game. I love IT!


----------



## CravinR1

Sorry but if someone does a cheesey all in and I hold it i'm going to tell them to get out.

If someone cannon rushes me, 6 pools, 1-1-1, proxy rax/gate


----------



## Djmatrix32

I have trouble with rushing. I find that I build way too slow maybe I should try zerg.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djmatrix32*
> 
> I have trouble with rushing. I find that I build way too slow maybe I should try zerg.


Lol. I love your dedication to talk about just starting. lol

Welcome to sc2!

Rushing is not the best way to learn the game.









If you practice for preparation of the long game that will be your best teacher. You should also visit Teamliquid.net for a great location to read up on strats.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> I honestly can't believe what I just read. An all in is a perfectly acceptable build. Your opponent will do whatever it takes to win, and he tried to execute that strategy. Then you flame him for using his strategy, telling him to "get the f out". That's equal or worse to an offense gg.
> So yes, it's near the worst kind of BM. I'm surprised your opponent even said gg after that.


I agree lol. I think any build to win in league is perfectly fine, BUT BUT BUT BUT if there is someone here that is one of the losers who all in every single custom 1v1? You are ******ed.. WHOOOO the crap!!! plays a practice custom to ALWAYS!! all in? i hate it. It just pisses me off. I think if your gonna all in every game just do it in league. Its not like your having to practice a real skill...


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol. I love your dedication to talk about just starting. lol
> Welcome to sc2!
> Rushing is not the best way to learn the game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you practice for preparation of the long game that will be your best teacher. You should also visit Teamliquid.net for a great location to read up on strats.


Yep - IMO, Zerg is actually a more macro oriented race. It's just that Zerg also has the potential to do cheesy rushes. But is it that much different from the 2 gate or proxy 2 rax? Basically, there will always be cheese, and once you learn to deal with such cheese/rushes, you'll start winning a LOT of games.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Rushing is not the best way to learn the game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you practice for preparation of the long game that will be your best teacher. You should also visit Teamliquid.net for a great location to read up on strats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree lol. I think any build to win in league is perfectly fine, BUT BUT BUT BUT if there is someone here that is one of the losers who all in every single custom 1v1? You are ******ed.. WHOOOO the crap!!! plays a practice custom to ALWAYS!! all in? i hate it. It just pisses me off. I think if your gonna all in every game just do it in league. Its not like your having to practice a real skill...


I remember when you 6 pooled me on close pos. metal, lolololololololololol


----------



## Anti!!

I macro six pooled you. Lol it wasnt for an all in. Lol!! I was only trying to delay you. Haha how would i know my drone would block your cannon long enough my six pool would destroy you? Hahahahahahaha

I remeber you were aggrevated also. Hahaha. I was like my bad. I wasnt trying to win with it. But you didnt believe me. And still dont haha. So, we made a truce. Lulz


----------



## yks

Good riddance metal is able to be gone. such a **** map.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Good riddance metal is able to be gone. such a **** map.


Lol. I knew you would be happy about that one.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Good riddance metal is able to be gone. such a **** map.










I love that map! I have 80% loss rate on it this season (won 1/5 games on it), but i'll work on it once i've quenched my thirst for shiny items in D3...









personally I think the worst this season is Altar, no ramp = super lame PvP games.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

As a Zerg... I adore Metalopolis


----------



## HarrisLam

talk about map removal, I still remember the first time they removed maps from ladder, one of them was the oh my god shettiest map ever Scrap station

Blizzard even stated the reason of removing it : because it *slightly* favored zerg, and I remember a lot of zerg players went










and I was like YEAH RIGHT, keep pretending you don't know that


----------



## Ghooble

I don't know how many of you 2v2 but if you are a Terran/Toss comp then this is a really good build me and a buddy do. Korean 4 Gate+ 4 Rax Stim/+1. Almost nobody holds it and if they do all you need to do is camp outside their base to prevent an expo while you expo yourself. Works great for us


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I don't know how many of you 2v2 but if you are a Terran/Toss comp then this is a really good build me and a buddy do. Korean 4 Gate+ 4 Rax Stim/+1. Almost nobody holds it and if they do all you need to do is camp outside their base to prevent an expo while you expo yourself. Works great for us


you need to battle it out with cravin and his friend.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I don't know how many of you 2v2 but if you are a Terran/Toss comp then this is a really good build me and a buddy do. Korean 4 Gate+ 4 Rax Stim/+1. Almost nobody holds it and if they do all you need to do is camp outside their base to prevent an expo while you expo yourself. Works great for us


What league are you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> you need to battle it out with cravin and his friend.


Yeah that was fun times


----------



## yks

masters 2s, 3s, 4s here. I GOT ALL THE STRATS.

edit: the day blistering, scrap, and desert oasis got removed, i danced tears of joy. but still cried that metal was in there.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> What league are you?


What League are we or are we playing against? We just did our placement matches for this season (lol) and are top 8 plat. Played against top diamond and mid masters


----------



## CravinR1

We placed diamond with our 2v2 PT strat

Me and my friend are Platinum 1v1 also. What are you and your friend in 1v1 ?


----------



## HarrisLam

dayum, just stop asking questions and go for it already


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

I really hope everyone here realizes that league rankings in team games means jacksquat.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> We placed diamond with our 2v2 PT strat
> Me and my friend are Platinum 1v1 also. What are you and your friend in 1v1 ?


Here's the funny part. ..
Me=Silver.
Him=Hasn't played in 4 months but was Diamond. (playing on Hughesnet LOL. He nearly dropped each game he played)
We both score about the same each game too which makes it competitive still.


----------



## CravinR1

It will be awhile before we can play. My friend lives in Canada and is a Pilot.

He had to move and can't play SC2 due to sucky company internet. Its been about 2 or 3 weeks so I have no idea when he'll be back on


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> It will be awhile before we can play. My friend lives in Canada and is a Pilot.
> He had to move and can't play SC2 due to sucky company internet. Its been about 2 or 3 weeks so I have no idea when he'll be back on


Are we supposed to play eachother? lol


----------



## yks

Yes


----------



## HarrisLam

*DO IT.*


----------



## CravinR1

lol, I would play. Though no idea when it will be. I actually need a Diamond/Masters Toss to give me lessons if posible


----------



## yks

Man, I'm changing my keybinds, boy re-training muscle memory is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard.

Cravin, I'm D/M/M/M, but I'm not on that much. You should add me or just sit idle in the OCN channel.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Man, I'm changing my keybinds, boy re-training muscle memory is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard.
> Cravin, I'm D/M/M/M, but I'm not on that much. You should add me or just sit idle in the OCN channel.


Nice I do tend to go into OCN channel pretty frequently. I use 3 accounts:

Cravin
ChadStrife
KingIson

I only remember the character code for Cravin (911).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> talk about map removal, I still remember the first time they removed maps from ladder, one of them was the oh my god shettiest map ever Scrap station
> Blizzard even stated the reason of removing it : because it *slightly* favored zerg, and I remember a lot of zerg players went
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I was like YEAH RIGHT, keep pretending you don't know that


XDDDDDDD

You're dang skippy too. Still wont admit it! lol

But on a serious note. I lost on that map all the time.. lol

And on the teams thing. My friends and I would RR, 4Gate, speedling expand and masters it aallllll the time. lol Teamz are ez pz.. lol


----------



## avaya

If you want the best team strategies, it has to involve one guy feeding gas/minerals. It's sort of like the custom game nexus wars- 1 person can win 1v4 due to economy's of scale (instead of 4 players making tier 1 units, 1 person is making tier 2 units).

I'm not a big team game player, but copied a 2v2 build from TL thread a couple months ago that consisted of me going for a 10 gate +2 timing attack with zealot/templar/archon. Found a silver level guy willing to just get 16 scv's & feed and we were something like 40-5 rank #1 masters after about a week of playing. It's more efficient to have both players money being focused in a single tech tree.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> If you want the best team strategies, it has to involve one guy feeding gas/minerals. It's sort of like the custom game nexus wars- 1 person can win 1v4 due to economy's of scale (instead of 4 players making tier 1 units, 1 person is making tier 2 units).
> I'm not a big team game player, but copied a 2v2 build from TL thread a couple months ago that consisted of me going for a 10 gate +2 timing attack with zealot/templar/archon. Found a silver level guy willing to just get 16 scv's & feed and we were something like 40-5 rank #1 masters after about a week of playing. *It's more efficient to have both players money being focused in a single tech tree.*


only if the fed player has as good macro as at least a diamond player. It also might not work well in split bases.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avaya*
> 
> If you want the best team strategies, it has to involve one guy feeding gas/minerals. It's sort of like the custom game nexus wars- 1 person can win 1v4 due to economy's of scale (instead of 4 players making tier 1 units, 1 person is making tier 2 units).
> I'm not a big team game player, but copied a 2v2 build from TL thread a couple months ago that consisted of me going for a 10 gate +2 timing attack with zealot/templar/archon. Found a silver level guy willing to just get 16 scv's & feed and we were something like 40-5 rank #1 masters after about a week of playing. It's more efficient to have both players money being focused in a single tech tree.


I've read about these strats and tried them once or twice but I just feel like having 2 different armies hitting at two different places beats 1 big army hitting one place. Kind of like harassing....with an entire army. We still feed eachother but not that much and only to complete a warp in or something like that.


----------



## CravinR1

I don't like to split my armies up. If you have 1 army one place and another army at another location. They can 2 armies vs your 1 army at one location and own it then move to take out the second army 2v1


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I don't like to split my armies up. If you have 1 army one place and another army at another location. They can 2 armies vs your 1 army at one location and own it then move to take out the second army 2v1


But moving an entire army takes time. So during all the time they're moving to attack the one army you can do something completely crazy with the second one, or just set up a concave/defense at a choke or what have you.


----------



## 13321G4

I was thinking more along the line, let them use their two armies to chase one army (Say loads of blink stalkers constantly blinking away.) whilst another army is taking out production (stim rauders very good).

This way you keep them busy whilst they die.


----------



## avaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I was thinking more along the line, let them use their two armies to chase one army (Say loads of blink stalkers constantly blinking away.) whilst another army is taking out production (stim rauders very good).
> This way you keep them busy whilst they die.


Don't forget both players can control an army made by 1 player! When I played with the silver level guy I sometimes went dt instead of ht and had him controlling 1 or 2 to make sure they were targeting workers instead of queen or army units.

Forge, cy core, and citadel costs less than forge, cy core, citadel, engineering bay, factory, starport.
Or
engineering bay, factory, starport costs less than engineering bay, factory, starport, forge, cy core, citadel.

The ~500 resource saved is significant since they are built in the 4 to 8 minute range (+500 doesn't matter as much at 10 minutes, but earlier is game changing). The cost for upgrades is also twice as cost efficient with a single tech tree.

I bet some type of 6x+ medivac timings with a ton of marine/marauder very early (and one player could control drops while other hits front) may even be as good or better than the 10gate zealot/templar build I was using.


----------



## Sainesk

anyone want to teach me how to play Night 2 Die well? the survive 15 waves is the last achievement I need that relies on another player apart from league multiplayer games... would really appreciate it


----------



## Jeci

Does anyone know if there are any OCN events/teams that do games of SC2?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeci*
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any OCN events/teams that do games of SC2?


we don't have a team, but we do sometimes organize events where we play each other or something... just we haven't done any recently with people taking a break to play D3 and such


----------



## HometownHero

Starting to force myself to play tonight. My friends keep sucking me into D3 but the novelty has worn off for me.


----------



## poroboszcz

So you guys are not bored with D3 yet?


----------



## HarrisLam

judging from how dead this is....lol

i myself don't have much playtime at all, but I too allocated all of it to D3, more because I want to make the $60 worthwhile than it really being much more fun than SC2

I dont have the patience to grind items if good stuff drops so rarely, not to mention I don't have the time even if I want to (currently at lv49, nightmare act 4). In SC2 however I get to play with people that are around my skill level, so no matter how bad I got I can get some decent games going.

That said, however, guild wars 2 is going out faster than I can get bored with D3 so......


----------



## Anti!!

I play sc2 most still. Just nothing to post about. Except that arcade patch. I guess that is good for custome map layers. Not meaning peep mode.


----------



## snelan

So did anyone see the last Stephano MKP game at MLG? Stephano kills 42 SCVs, so MKP just makes a massive 3 base Marine Marauder Terran deathball off some unknown economy and wins against the 4 base T3 Stephano...


----------



## Twistacles

He wasnt that ahead. Stephano only had like 53~ drones. Maybe if he had made units after that attack and gotten another good engagement, but really he had to kill him with the push. He tried to expand twice, go hive, get 3/3/adrenal and units off 50 drones. No wonder he lost


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

MLG this year is amazing.


----------



## amputate

GO FLASH!


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> He wasnt that ahead. Stephano only had like 53~ drones. Maybe if he had made units after that attack and gotten another good engagement, but really he had to kill him with the push. He tried to expand twice, go hive, get 3/3/adrenal and units off 50 drones. No wonder he lost


That is true, I guess in the mid-late game worker losses aren't AS bad as in the early game. One could also argue that he stopped making Infestors too, which was pretty big, considering he only had about 30 lings, 15 roaches, and about 3 infestors, against 3/4 of a rine/rauder deathball.

I guess he just got the "I'm so far ahead I don't have to worry about anything anymore" syndrome.

But hey, I doubt either of them would of been able to beat DRG anyway.


----------



## Twistacles

I think he couldve won if he had went mutas or gotten more infestors. As soon as he could knock out the ridic. medivac count it woulda been game


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> MLG this year is amazing.


Yeah, the best so far imo. Stephano vs MKP was great. I think it was MKP's micro on Cloud Kingdom that won him the game. I think almost anyone else would fail at defending the attack at his natural. Whenever I go bio vs zerg i get rolled with half of what Stephano had in this game. MKP vs Alicia on TA was awesome as well. And DRG looks pretty invincible throughout the whole tournament. Can't wait for the finals.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah, the best so far imo. Stephano vs MKP was great. I think it was MKP's micro on Cloud Kingdom that won him the game. I think almost anyone else would fail at defending the attack at his natural. Whenever I go bio vs zerg i get rolled with half of what Stephano had in this game. MKP vs Alicia on TA was awesome as well. And DRG looks pretty invincible throughout the whole tournament. Can't wait for the finals.


Some how i have been missing it. Oh, wait i know how. Even standard definition isnt free......................................+...........................................


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah that sucked. It was still of similar or better quality than free GSL streams though and the games were epic. Finals were a bit disappointing and would have probably been better with someone like MKP, MC or Stephano in them. Still a lot of good games and Kespa tournament was pretty fun to watch.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah that sucked. It was still of similar or better quality than free GSL streams though and the games were epic. Finals were a bit disappointing and would have probably been better with someone like MKP, MC or Stephano in them. Still a lot of good games and Kespa tournament was pretty fun to watch.


Where in the world did you find any free streams? I didnt even know they had that.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Where in the world did you find any free streams? I didnt even know they had that.


MLG's main site was streaming the tournament for free this time. Also, TL has a lot of free streams.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> MLG's main site was streaming the tournament for free this time. Also, TL has a lot of free streams.


Hmm i must have missed it.. When is there next. Anyone know? I could look up link i guess.


----------



## poroboszcz

You can still watch rebroadcast:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live#sc2


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amputate*
> 
> GO FLASH!


Was Flash there?

And my reason for not posting anything was playing too much CSGO


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Was Flash there?
> And my reason for not posting anything was playing too much CSGO


Flash, JaeDong, and all the other famous BW pros were there and had their own mini SC2 tourney, it was awesome, the strategies they used and how they played.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Flash, JaeDong, and all the other famous BW pros were there and had their own mini SC2 tourney, it was awesome, the strategies they used and how they played.


WHY DID I MISS THAT?! There footage of it anywhere?


----------



## Anti!!

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live#sc2

hour 28:15 of the video is close to when all the korean pros like bisu and flash get announced and start their mini tourney of sc2.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live#sc2
> hour 28:15 of the video is close to when all the korean pros like bisu and flash get announced and start their mini tourney of sc2.


1 hour and 28 minutes? I don't see it.

Edit: 28hours and 15 minutes roughly for those of you who are going to watch as well.


----------



## yks

Metal finally getting removedddd. ladder maps are starting to look pretty gooooooood.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> 1 hour and 28 minutes? I don't see it.
> Edit: 28hours and 15 minutes roughly for those of you who are going to watch as well.


Ill be sure to spell it out for you next time ghooble. Lol


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Ill be sure to spell it out for you next time ghooble. Lol


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*


XD


----------



## poroboszcz

Some excellent starcraft: http://drop.sc/197978


----------



## ntherblast

Hmm just started s2 2v2 randoms. Theres a dude in my division with 2 wins and he has 117 pts how does that work?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Hmm just started s2 2v2 randoms. Theres a dude in my division with 2 wins and he has 117 pts how does that work?


Bonus pool, and favored opponents. Thats how.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Some excellent starcraft: http://drop.sc/197978


Hahaha, that is hilarious. I love playing terran. They are so much fun!


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Bonus pool, and favored opponents. Thats how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha, that is hilarious. I love playing terran. They are so much fun!


Actually I figured it out it's because the person changed leagues early on and their points reset to 73+ bonus pool


----------



## Reflux

Was watching a Korean film. Quick, 2011 for anyone who's interested.

Saw this line, was instantly reminded of you guys.

KR ladder in a nutshell.


----------



## Anti!!

Thats pretty hilarious! Haha

***CPR***

Breathes life into the thread.


----------



## poroboszcz

By looking at OCN ladder it seems not many people still play. There used to be like 50 people on there. tt


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> By looking at OCN ladder it seems not many people still play. There used to be like 50 people on there. tt


Iono why I am not on there :/


----------



## Ghooble

I'm not on there either.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm on there 3 times 

Cravin
ChadStrife
KingIson


----------



## Alex132

They need to fix it


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> They need to fix it


There's nothing wrong with it, if you're not on there and sc2ranks is not broken, it's because of one of two reasons:

-You haven't played a ladder match this season, play one and you'll reappear
-You had not yet played a ladder match in the season when the official ocn division was created, in which case you can add yourself under "Manage characters".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm on there 3 times
> Cravin
> ChadStrife
> KingIson


I can remove the ones you don't want, personally multiple accounts belonging to one person on there do not bother me - it can be interesting seeing how some people perform in different regions or as different races.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> They need to fix it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with it, if you're not on there and sc2ranks is not broken, it's because of one of two reasons:
> 
> -You haven't played a ladder match this season, play one and you'll reappear
> -You had not yet played a ladder match in the season when the official ocn division was created, in which case you can add yourself under "Manage characters".
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm on there 3 times
> Cravin
> ChadStrife
> KingIson
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can remove the ones you don't want, personally multiple accounts belonging to one person on there do not bother me - it can be interesting seeing how some people perform in different regions or as different races.
Click to expand...

I have played a ladder match this year, and I did add myself.


----------



## Alex132

Oh look, I popped up


----------



## snelan

Wow, just played muta ling style in ZvZ and it's a serious BO win. I used to play roach infestor.


----------



## Ghooble

I'm thinking about trying Z. I'm usually Toss and have dabbled in Terran but Muta looks fun. Anybody got any tips? Literally first time I'll be playing Zerg except for 1 match by myself 20 minutes ago, and 1 monobattle where I rolled Zerg and had to mass roaches...I got 200/200 in 13.5 minutes. Is it really that easy?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I'm thinking about trying Z. I'm usually Toss and have dabbled in Terran but Muta looks fun. Anybody got any tips? Literally first time I'll be playing Zerg except for 1 match by myself 20 minutes ago, and 1 monobattle where I rolled Zerg and had to mass roaches...I got 200/200 in 13.5 minutes. Is it really that easy?


Yea, if your not bothered it is suppa easy. The key is do it when you are playing somone decent.

@Snelan - your welcome. haha

And about the ladder thing. I havent played 1v1s ladder, but i have teams. So, dont think i have quit. I just 1v1 customs only. When i can that is.

Snelan has been on my nuts about placing. lol


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Wow, just played muta ling style in ZvZ and it's a serious BO win. I used to play roach infestor.


Er... Roach Infestor handily beats Mutaling


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Er... Roach Infestor handily beats Mutaling


Thats why you ditch muta for ultra. I dont think its a bo win because there is a definite window to be vulnerable but still fun for high diamond at least.

By the way. Didnt you say you were in gold league or plat?

Are you just going off what you hear? Or your experience?


----------



## QuadDamage

I'm going to hit diamond on the ladder as random EZ









Already top Plat not even trying hard









Getting better

Random is where it's at.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> I'm going to hit diamond on the ladder as random EZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already top Plat not even trying hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting better
> Random is where it's at.


Rearry?

Why so easy?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Rearry?
> Why so easy?


Must be easy being cheesey, since all Randoms cheese all the time (in gold plat that is)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Must be easy being cheesey, since all Randoms cheese all the time (in gold plat that is)


Kinda where i was going with it. lol


----------



## CravinR1

Can't wait til he gets upper plat/diamond and people learn to scout and denie his cheese and he stays forever plat


----------



## QuadDamage

Cheese is part of the game it works well on all levels of play, if you know how to transition it's all part of the game
+ makes the game fun, I'm not trying to be a SC 2 pro, I play for fun and random is just fun. Random things and trying stuff out.

I'm just saying the ladder now a days diamond and master level is much better then gold/plat


----------



## QuadDamage

Zerg
1 Base 7 roach all in
or 2 base ling all in
I don't like 6 or 7 pools 2 risky

Toss
2 Gate PRoxy *If they don't scout this EASY GG*

Terran
3 or 4 rax all in and pull scv

All cheesy builds but fun to pull off,, just part of the game


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> Zerg
> 1 Base 7 roach all in
> or 2 base ling all in
> I don't like 6 or 7 pools 2 risky
> Toss
> 2 Gate PRoxy *If they don't scout this EASY GG*
> Terran
> 3 or 4 rax all in and pull scv
> All cheesy builds but fun to pull off,, just part of the game


Definetly part of the game. Yes and i dont mind it. Im a strong believer in win whatever it takes. But i believe you ez rolling ladder has little to do with you being random but more that you are cheesing always. Lol

Yes by all means have fun. Im not bashing at all. I just wanted to be clear.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> Zerg
> 1 Base 7 roach all in
> or 2 base ling all in
> I don't like 6 or 7 pools 2 risky
> Toss
> 2 Gate PRoxy *If they don't scout this EASY GG*
> Terran
> 3 or 4 rax all in and pull scv
> All cheesy builds but fun to pull off,, just part of the game


Platinmum Random + always cheeses + thinks he's "good"

Thumbs down to you and your skill


----------



## HarrisLam

D3 has definitely shown signs of boredom for me now (and I'm not even lv 60 yet. I'm tired of all the problems and things I didnt like)

I already played 1 SC team game a few days ago (I completely stopped playing it for D3)

D3 will forever loses its place when GW2 launches, and if GW2 doesn't launch before.....say......october, I might go back to SC2

PS : I'm not in the OCN ladder either..... If I decide to pop back into SC I'll probably ask you guys how I could add myself into the league


----------



## Fortunex

After not playing for 5-6 months, I started playing again ~2 weeks ago, back up to top plat. Time to work towards diamond.

Question for ZvZ: How do you know when to go mass roach, roach/infestor or roach/hydra? Is there a better situation for each?


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> After not playing for 5-6 months, I started playing again ~2 weeks ago, back up to top plat. Time to work towards diamond.
> Question for ZvZ: How do you know when to go mass roach, roach/infestor or roach/hydra? Is there a better situation for each?


Pro tip flow chart. Zerg? > Opponent any race > Mass roach > Dead?> No > Mass more roach > Dead? > Yes. > Win.


----------



## Fortunex

If only it were that easy


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> After not playing for 5-6 months, I started playing again ~2 weeks ago, back up to top plat. Time to work towards diamond.
> Question for ZvZ: How do you know when to go mass roach, roach/infestor or roach/hydra? Is there a better situation for each?


Assuming they are not going mutas:

If I see him tech really early I try to out number him with roaches.

If I see super early infestors you can try to stream lings into the third or out number.

Usually though, my rule for roach infestor is if I see almost a mirror matchup (same upgrades/etc) I will just try to get my infestation pit down around 10 mins, and get about 4 infestors early on, then once you have a supple amount of roaches, you can add investors until you think you have enough.

Lastly, Roach Hydra isn't really THAT good (against roach infestor) on it's own, (you could go roach/hydra/infestor) I generally only make roach hydra against mutas. I don't feel like infestors are that great against mutas because a non muta-clumper can easily avoid fungals, and they run out of energy. I go roach hydra, and when I want to push, you NEED to keep the roaches infront or the hydras will get vaporized by blings.

*Take all my advice with a grain of salt, I am only diamond.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Assuming they are not going mutas:
> If I see him tech really early I try to out number him with roaches.
> If I see super early infestors you can try to stream lings into the third or out number.
> Usually though, my rule for roach infestor is if I see almost a mirror matchup (same upgrades/etc) I will just try to get my infestation pit down around 10 mins, and get about 4 infestors early on, then once you have a supple amount of roaches, you can add investors until you think you have enough.
> Lastly, Roach Hydra isn't really THAT good (against roach infestor) on it's own, (you could go roach/hydra/infestor) I generally only make roach hydra against mutas. I don't feel like infestors are that great against mutas because a non muta-clumper can easily avoid fungals, and they run out of energy. I go roach hydra, and when I want to push, you NEED to keep the roaches infront or the hydras will get vaporized by blings.
> *Take all my advice with a grain of salt, I am only diamond.


----------



## burwij

This might be jumping the gun since Blizzard hasn't even announced a release date yet, but Newegg has the HotS pre-order listed for $60. There's a $10-off promo code for pre-orders $39.99 and up this weekend that brings it down to $50.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832127012

Promo code *EMCNDHA44* brings it down $10.

Newegg does price adjustments on pre-orders and won't charge your card until it's shipped. Blizzard sells WoW expansions for $40, so I'm kinda hoping that HotS follows suit - assuming they'll honor the promo code after price adjustments, $30 would be pretty sick.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> This might be jumping the gun since Blizzard hasn't even announced a release date yet, but Newegg has the HotS pre-order listed for $60. There's a $10-off promo code for pre-orders $39.99 and up this weekend that brings it down to $50.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832127012
> Promo code *EMCNDHA44* brings it down $10.
> Newegg does price adjustments on pre-orders and won't charge your card until it's shipped. Blizzard sells WoW expansions for $40, so I'm kinda hoping that HotS follows suit - assuming they'll honor the promo code after price adjustments, $30 would be pretty sick.


Nice find!


----------



## yks

TWO BASE ALL IN, ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

yaa herddd?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> TWO BASE ALL IN, ALL DAY EVERY DAY.
> yaa herddd?


No, i havent. Fill me in?


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> TWO BASE ALL IN, ALL DAY EVERY DAY.
> yaa herddd?


Huk has







Man I love that guy. I always try to watch a tourny where he's in it because his micro is boss.


----------



## Anti!!

Its just to bad his results havent been too great lately.


----------



## JonnyBigBoss

Just got back into StarCraft II. It's such a deep game...

I'm only in the silver league but I'm watching replays every day and trying to learn. If anyone wants to play feel free to message me. I like playing against comps and doing custom games, too.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JonnyBigBoss*
> 
> Just got back into StarCraft II. It's such a deep game...
> I'm only in the silver league but I'm watching replays every day and trying to learn. If anyone wants to play feel free to message me. I like playing against comps and doing custom games, too.


Feel free to add me

Cravin 911

I posted the codes for the other accounts I use but I don't remember them

I'll add them next time I log in but its:

ChadStrife
KingIson


----------



## Anti!!

Add me too if you want


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> This might be jumping the gun since Blizzard hasn't even announced a release date yet, but Newegg has the HotS pre-order listed for $60. There's a $10-off promo code for pre-orders $39.99 and up this weekend that brings it down to $50.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832127012
> Promo code *EMCNDHA44* brings it down $10.
> Newegg does price adjustments on pre-orders and won't charge your card until it's shipped. Blizzard sells WoW expansions for $40, so I'm kinda hoping that HotS follows suit - assuming they'll honor the promo code after price adjustments, $30 would be pretty sick.


$60 bucks for an expansion?


----------



## CravinR1

Been playing around in gold some today. PvZ and PvT

Contained both to two bases and had my way with them

SC2 gold PvT PvZ.zip 119k .zip file


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Been playing around in gold some today. PvZ and PvT
> Contained both to two bases and had my way with them
> 
> SC2 gold PvT PvZ.zip 119k .zip file


Nothing more satisfying than seeing siege tanks make zerg units explode.

On that topic,
Two base all-ins in Diamond all day today...


----------



## Ghooble

Here's me holding a zerg rush...very narrowly. I enjoyed it in the end (and yes BMed just a tad because I was angry)

YT video (Sped up): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwjdUNRxfY

Replay:

Zerg RUSH.zip 14k .zip file


Critique is appreciated (Silver league)


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Here's me holding a zerg rush...very narrowly. I enjoyed it in the end (and yes BMed just a tad because I was angry)
> YT video (Sped up): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwjdUNRxfY
> Replay:
> 
> Zerg RUSH.zip 14k .zip file
> 
> Critique is appreciated (Silver league)


In the game you attached, I always put first pylon at ramp to natural for a forge fe
When you see all lings warp in zealots not stalkers

On youtube vids, lower the music and let us hear the game sounds. That music loop got annoying really fast

Did you know he was zerg? You know what Naniwa says, fast expand or die trying. Also a forge can stop that easily with a pylon behind min line and a cannon in the min line. U lose the forge and front pylon but don't take near the economical hit you did. You should've had 15 or so probes before you resumed mining gas, you would've had more mins to make more probes and units

You're lucky DTs did any damage at all and you should've lost that. All he needed was a overseer. You need to learn to use sentries and FF


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> On youtube vids, lower the music and let us hear the game sounds. That music loop got annoying really fast
> Did you know he was zerg? You know what Naniwa says, fast expand or die trying. Also a forge can stop that easily with a pylon behind min line and a cannon in the min line. U lose the forge and front pylon but don't take near the economical hit you did. You should've had 15 or so probes before you resumed mining gas, you would've had more mins to make more probes and units
> You're lucky DTs did any damage at all and you should've lost that. All he needed was a overseer. You need to learn to use sentries and FF


I don't really like the ingame sounds which is why I put the music over it. Normally vs Zerg I go like some 3 gate expand type thing because I used to lose to roaches a lot and that would stop them handily. I know it was mostly luck that won it but it made me happy nonetheless. He should have expanded and crushed me but he didn't so I thought I'd try my hand with DT. I started mining gas a bit earlier because I wanted an extra stalker or two and as soon as I lost those probes I figured DT would be the easiest save so knowing that tech path I needed a bunch of extra gas. I think that's everything that was going through my head at that point.

Edit: Oh and the song only played twice. I thought it was pretty acceptable considering what type of music it is.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> $60 bucks for an expansion?


Like I said, Blizzard sells WoW expansions for $40. The $60 on Newegg is just a placeholder since the release date/pricing hasn't been announced yet - hopefully it'll follow suit and be $40.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I don't really like the ingame sounds which is why I put the music over it. Normally vs Zerg I go like some 3 gate expand type thing because I used to lose to roaches a lot and that would stop them handily. I know it was mostly luck that won it but it made me happy nonetheless. He should have expanded and crushed me but he didn't so I thought I'd try my hand with DT. I started mining gas a bit earlier because I wanted an extra stalker or two and as soon as I lost those probes I figured DT would be the easiest save so knowing that tech path I needed a bunch of extra gas. I think that's everything that was going through my head at that point.
> Edit: Oh and the song only played twice. I thought it was pretty acceptable considering what type of music it is.


Bro, Forge Fast Expand every time. Powerful build, transitions into anything.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Bro, Forge Fast Expand every time. Powerful build, transitions into anything.


For some reason I just don't like that build.


----------



## CravinR1

@ghooble if you noticed I forge fe and was able to attack him and kill his third and contain him to 2 bases while I went up to 4 base. If you scout no expo and fast roaches just get a extra cannon or 2 and chrono a couple sentries. Easy hold

I'm only gold/plat but feel free to add me anyone who wants to play:

Cravin 911
ChadStrife 133
Kingison 898


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> @ghooble if you noticed I forge fe and was able to attack him and kill his third and contain him to 2 bases while I went up to 4 base. If you scout no expo and fast roaches just get a extra cannon or 2 and chrono a couple sentries. Easy hold
> I'm only gold/plat but feel free to add me anyone who wants to play:
> Cravin 911
> ChadStrife 133
> Kingison 898


I didn't notice because I didn't watch your replay


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> I didn't notice because I didn't watch your replay


I'm platinum and I played a zerg and a terran. Maybe you might want to check it out

Those who are interested in playing SC2 or LoL just add me on skype:

cravin.r1


----------



## QuadDamage

I'll play with u guys

add me

QuadDamage 454

Plat Random Player
I think I could do Diamond Toss, but I love my randoms


----------



## CravinR1

Just played some 1v1 vs ItsTimeToDie. I look forward to practicing with him as we had some close games.

So far i'm 2-1 vs him, and I fraps'd the games. Unfortunately the game I lost fraps ran out of hard drive space and stopped (its when we say LAG in the chat). My upload is crappy but i'm going to upload my side of the game.

The audio is kind of jacked on the replays. The first 5 min of the first game I had the speakers on and the mic was picking up the sound too loud, then I turned on my ear phones and the game sounds are low. But other than that the audio is ok. I now know to turn the ear phone sound down and the game sounds up if I fraps any more.

OCN players: Platinum PvT

Game 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Di931VaT4


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Here's me holding a zerg rush...very narrowly. I enjoyed it in the end (and yes BMed just a tad because I was angry)
> YT video (Sped up): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwjdUNRxfY
> Replay:
> 
> Zerg RUSH.zip 14k .zip file
> 
> Critique is appreciated (Silver league)


That wasn't a rush. That was a 14 pool. Completely standard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> For some reason I just don't like that build.


You're in Silver. Lol.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> That wasn't a rush. That was a 14 pool. Completely standard.
> You're in Silver. Lol.


Does that somehow pigeon hole me into not being able to do easy builds? I rarely play which is why I'm in Silver. You can check my amount of games played the last two season and it will be like 20


----------



## 13321G4

Epic: just got my picture taken with EG incontrol 
Can't post pic because i am on my phone :-(

Best I can do:
http://db.tt/SYt0Ac7a


----------



## CravinR1

EGIncontrol is a cool player. He was the first toss I ever watched being cast in SC2


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Does that somehow pigeon hole me into not being able to do easy builds? I rarely play which is why I'm in Silver. You can check my amount of games played the last two season and it will be like 20


FFE is easier then 3 gate expo, you should give it a go. With 3 gate expo you need sharp timings and have to be constantly aggressive with your army to prevent zerg from droning. With FFE just focus on macro then 1a into zerg off 2 bases. If you scout early gas and no 3rd by 5 minutes add 2 - 3 cannons at your natural an you should be fine against any all-in.


----------



## ntherblast

The 2v2 map pool seems to have gotten worse. Anyone play the Desolate Stronghold map? Terran abuse this map by sieging and attacking your main. Blizzard should resign from making maps


----------



## CravinR1

PvT

OCN Cravin vs OCN ItsTimeToDIe Game 3 (game 2 fraps stopped since my 5th hard drive was full)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgL-ZQxS3iw

Cravin vs ItsTimeToDie Platinum PvT.zip 135k .zip file


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> The 2v2 map pool seems to have gotten worse. Anyone play the Desolate Stronghold map? Terran abuse this map by sieging and attacking your main. Blizzard should resign from making maps


That's like saying Tal'Darim is a bad map because Terran can abuse sieging your natural expansion. Or saying that Korhal Compound is a bad map because it's so big and lets Zerg abuse mutalisk harass. Or saying that Ohana is a bad map because it lets protoss FFE insanely easily.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> PvT
> OCN Cravin vs OCN ItsTimeToDIe Game 3 (game 2 fraps stopped since my 5th hard drive was full)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgL-ZQxS3iw


Yeah that was a weird game lol. We should play some more today, unless my dad gets overzealous with the 4th of July celebration.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> That's like saying Tal'Darim is a bad map because Terran can abuse sieging your natural expansion. Or saying that Korhal Compound is a bad map because it's so big and lets Zerg abuse mutalisk harass. Or saying that Ohana is a bad map because it lets protoss FFE insanely easily.


Completely different for over a decade it was common knowledge in sc that a tank hitting your mains mineral line shouldn't be possible


----------



## CravinR1

What about this map. At the third you can have colo, ht, siege, infestors


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> What about this map. At the third you can have colo, ht, siege, infestors
> http://us.media5.battle.net/cms/gallery/8JJXNY6R36O61339035485769.jpg


I'm only Diamond so take this with a grain of salt. However,

Condemned Ridge is the largest map yet with a rush distance of almost 65 seconds from the 11' o'clock to the 5' o'clock position. It's ******-like base positioning ENSURES that Zerg's 3rd can be grabbed as possible. Consequently, you can do Stephano's 14 min Roach max very fast. It also make any Protoss, Terran 3 base all-ins very powerful. In terms of macro based play and engagements this is EXTREMELY Zerg friendly. In fact, Terran is the last race I'd play on this map due to:

HUGE wide open center with many, many attack paths letting Zerg flank as much as they want.
The proximity of your 3 bases by air makes mutalisk harass very powerful.
The difficulty of harassing and denying your 4th/5th base makes any macro-based play very hard past late mid-game.
Basically, a more zerg-friendly Tal'Darim essentially.
Easy protoss third in TvP lets Protosses aim for very powerful late mid-game timings
Consequently the large distance makes 111 allins and any mid-game aggression weaker.

There are a few Terran pros though:

Dropping is very powerful on this.
Brood Lord transitions are extremely weak due to the size of the map.
Through the use of Planetary Fortresses and Missile Turrets you can successfully trade minerals for gas in TvZ.
Large open areas are good for MMMVG vs Protoss HT/Colossi death balls.
Protoss has as much difficulty holding on to his Fourth base as you do.

EDIT:
A very excellent comparison by Orek from TL


----------



## poroboszcz

But there are rocks at the 3rd that's terrible for zerg. Also you can do Stephano style on pretty much any map against FFE and it maxes out < 12 minutes.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> But there are rocks at the 3rd that's terrible for zerg. Also you can do Stephano style on pretty much any map against FFE and it maxes out < 12 minutes.


The rocks have been removed.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Completely different for over a decade it was common knowledge in sc that a tank hitting your mains mineral line shouldn't be possible


I remember in sc bgh you could drop siege or anything behind the mineral lines. I also remember on sc lost temple you could siege the three o'clock position. So, i would argue that it has been common knowledge that places like this actually makes you have to stay on your toes more. Which in turn makes for better pro games.









I also like the maps with these options. It keeps the game from getting stale. If people keep getting every single nuance removed from the game its just going to be a boring idra macro build every game. I love suprise.

This also will seperate the boys from the men and girls from the women. If you cant handle the drops in your rear, get in gear and stop it. Just more room to improve.

Also, this is by no means meant to be little you. I am not focusing in on you, just your point.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I remember in sc bgh you could drop siege or anything behind the mineral lines. I also remember on sc lost temple you could siege the three o'clock position. So, i would argue that it has been common knowledge that places like this actually makes you have to stay on your toes more. Which in turn makes for better pro games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also like the maps with these options. It keeps the game from getting stale. If people keep getting every single nuance removed from the game its just going to be a boring idra macro build every game. I love suprise.
> This also will seperate the boys from the men and girls from the women. If you cant handle the drops in your rear, get in gear and stop it. Just more room to improve.
> Also, this is by no means meant to be little you. I am not focusing in on you, just your point.


Haha, the thing about drops is that, they take just as much apm to execute as they do to defend against. Which is nice, since we Terrans can use excess APM to drop everywhere and throw off Zerg macro.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Haha, the thing about drops is that, they take just as much apm to execute as they do to defend against. Which is nice, since we Terrans can use excess APM to drop everywhere and throw off Zerg macro.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Haha, the thing about drops is that, they take just as much apm to execute as they do to defend against. Which is nice, since we Terrans can use excess APM to drop everywhere and throw off Zerg macro.


Bingo! So in the end the best man or woman wins. Lol


----------



## ntherblast

I swear i've heard the reply when my ally does bad where he says "i'm so high" more than 100x


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I swear i've heard the reply when my ally does bad where he says "i'm so high" more than 100x


I'd assume nobody plays team games sober.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'd assume nobody plays team games sober.


Thought stoners played fps games


----------



## Anti!!

Prepare to die tonight HanSomPa... lol


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Prepare to die tonight HanSomPa... lol


Hahaha, yeah I'm only a low Diamond


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Hahaha, yeah I'm only a low Diamond


Did you get promoted? Well I'm very proud of the 2 games I took from you then.


----------



## GoodbyeGalaxy

Hello OCN. I didn't realize there was a SCII thread on here! I have two accounts, one is Mid-Diamond and the other I just started is now platinum. I've only got 15 games played on it and I'm already playing vs Masters







. If anyone would like to practice with a Diamond Zerg it would be greatly appreciated, especially Diamond/Masters Terran and Protoss. Also regardless of league if you have greater than 220APM I'd like to practice with you! I'm trying to increase my multitask at the moment and I need someone able to harass decently on multiple fronts that has at least the same or greater then speed/multitask as I. Get at me! GameofDrones//365 located on NA.


----------



## CravinR1

Copy TLO much?


----------



## burwij

At least his name isn't llllllllllll.


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Copy TLO much?


Lots of pros copy each other. Copying a pro isn't new or really a problem.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodbyeGalaxy*
> 
> Hello OCN. I didn't realize there was a SCII thread on here! I have two accounts, one is Mid-Diamond and the other I just started is now platinum. I've only got 15 games played on it and I'm already playing vs Masters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If anyone would like to practice with a Diamond Zerg it would be greatly appreciated, especially Diamond/Masters Terran and Protoss. Also regardless of league if you have greater than 220APM I'd like to practice with you! I'm trying to increase my multitask at the moment and I need someone able to harass decently on multiple fronts that has at least the same or greater then speed/multitask as I. Get at me! GameofDrones//365 located on NA.


I may hit you up. ZVZ is on my stronger side here lately.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Did you get promoted? Well I'm very proud of the 2 games I took from you then.


Not at all. The account I played on is a smurf. My main is my other account. I don't play on it as much, but my MMR is consistently high enough to face mid Diamonds.


----------



## CravinR1

Was playing random on one of my brothers' accounts and got a ZvZ against a rank 19 platinum. Any zerg want to tell me some hints in ZvZ or ZvP

Ohana LE (13).zip 63k .zip file


----------



## Anti!!

I assume player one is always the replay owners.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Was playing random on one of my brothers' accounts and got a ZvZ against a rank 19 platinum. Any zerg want to tell me some hints in ZvZ or ZvP
> 
> Ohana LE (13).zip 63k .zip file


Watching the replay right now...

5:00 you let your overlord get killed by a Queen, this is a 100 mineral. pretty big this early in the game
7:00 you still havent transferred drones to your natural, hence why you didnt have enough minerals to make a round of roaches right away.
9:00 you didn't put droens on your second gas. Which is around the time you want to start stockpiling it for Lair units.
10:00 you could've gone for his Queen but you didn't I dont see why not, it delays his injects by quite a bit.
11:00 you still have only 8 drones at your natural and 20 at your main. Why? Additionally its 31 drones to 40 when YOU had more time to drone than he did.
12:00 your rally points were messed up and you lost a few more units. You are behind at this point in both army and economy.

You missed 4 injects at this point.

16:37 Game is over at this point, you are out of larvae and still haven't saturated your third base.
Had he managed the final engagement better he would've won

I don't see much point in showing us replays where you win to be honest.


----------



## CravinR1

I know I need to work on my mechanics and when I watched the replay I knew he was ahead when my expo went down first


----------



## Anti!!

Also, you need to decided between pressure or defend expand in zvz

Its a game of larvae.

You expanded, even pool first style, and you attacked with a decent amout of lings, but expanded that same time.

Zerg is a race of extremes.

You either expand and econ cheese with defensive banes, or you do a 13 pool with banes and attack till you hurt him enough to kill, or you can safely expand. Not both.


----------



## ntherblast

Hope I get promoted in 2v2 randoms soon hopefully being rank 1 diamond in the region helps:s. Getting promoted in this is impossible half the time I get complete noob allies in plat/gold then it faces me vs masters arranged team and expects us to win

Anyone know where I can watch a decent quality of DRG vs MMA blizz grand cup final 7 match set?


----------



## poroboszcz

You guys watched HSC V? It was awesome! Great production and amazing atmosphere.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You guys watched HSC V? It was awesome! Great production and amazing atmosphere.


Hellll yeah, HSC my favorite tournament, then GSL, then MLG.

The casting is the best part of it


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Hellll yeah, HSC my favorite tournament, then GSL, then MLG.
> The casting is the best part of it


Any links?


----------



## yks

http://www.twitch.tv/taketv/videos

http://www.twitch.tv/taketvbstream/videos

the vods aren't really organized but here you can see the brackets: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HomeStory_Cup/5

Group stage 1 and 2 is hidden, so dont forget to click show.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/taketv/videos
> http://www.twitch.tv/taketvbstream/videos
> the vods aren't really organized but here you can see the brackets: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HomeStory_Cup/5
> Group stage 1 and 2 is hidden, so dont forget to click show.


Good ol y k s. What would i do without you?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Good ol y k s. What would i do without you?


You'd have weak ZvP without me. Since my P training is like Hyperbolic Time Chamber status. jk jk ;]


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> You'd have weak ZvP without me. Since my P training is like Hyperbolic Time Chamber status. jk jk ;]


You are never on! lol


----------



## yks

i know =[ i'm waiting for hots. or if something interesting is happening.


----------



## Yukss

ZvZ is a long and painful game to whatch, in min 5 each player has about 3 or 4 hatchs, like 4 queen and larva injetion madness

i am toss mid platinum guys, hit me up if you wanna play

YuKsS #987


----------



## ntherblast

I remember why I don't play custom games especially Mafia. The concept is great but when most players that play custom games are trolls it always ends up with players getting random lynched. Just had a game where someone kept saying lynch x player then everyone without question lynched the player


----------



## connectwise

Did you guys watch Naniwa vs DRG last night that went to 5 games?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Did you guys watch Naniwa vs DRG last night that went to 5 games?


How did it happen? Was it bo9?







(VODs?)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> ZvZ is a long and painful game to whatch, in min 5 each player has about 3 or 4 hatchs, like 4 queen and larva injetion madness
> i am toss mid platinum guys, hit me up if you wanna play
> YuKsS #987


Its not when your the one playing it. Thats for sure. lol


----------



## Sybr

I put down D3 last week (just not fun anymore) and did some SC2 placement matches with my buddies. Beating bronzies was so fun! (no offense to all bronze players here)









Anyway, I was platinum on EU two seasons ago, so I had to do 5 placement matches again. The last one was a ZvP on Shakuras, but I lost to a FFE.

ZvP Shakuras placement.zip 29k .zip file

Any tips from you guys on how to improve here? Should I have dropped an extra hatch and made lings against the stalkers?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> I put down D3 last week (just not fun anymore) and did some SC2 placement matches with my buddies. Beating bronzies was so fun! (no offense to all bronze players here)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I was platinum on EU two seasons ago, so I had to do 5 placement matches again. The last one was a ZvP on Shakuras, but I lost to a FFE.
> 
> ZvP Shakuras placement.zip 29k .zip file
> 
> Any tips from you guys on how to improve here? Should I have dropped an extra hatch and made lings against the stalkers?


I might can give tips when i get home to watch but can you give me tips on how to do five pkacement matches again?? Lol. I went three seasons without placing 1v1 and still only had to do one. Do you not place on any league at all? Or is it that you just never played with that premade team before?


----------



## CravinR1

@Sybr

You sent first overlord to your natural instead of using first overlord to scout, you can send your second overlord for vision of pylons to cannon rush.

When pylon blocked take your third as your first expo, not wait for the pylon to be killed. His expo 3/4 finished before you dropped yours. Most zerg will take a fast 3 bases when toss expos. Your 3rd went down at 12 min and at 13 min still not saturated. If you're going to do roach pressure do it earlier.

Lair came very early. Just to put a roach warren down

If you were worried about DTs you should've dropped a fast evo and not worried about the overseer so fast. Use a overlord to suicide to scout, the changeling isn't needed. You lost because your workers were even or behing the toss most the game and you didn't have enough larvae due to only being on 2 bases.

Also you were behind on upgrades


----------



## pisto

Hey guys if anyone wants to add me on SC2 my handle is pisto. I am a top 10 bronze player right now. I can't seem to penetrate into silver league yet.


----------



## Sybr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I might can give tips when i get home to watch but can you give me tips on how to do five pkacement matches again?? Lol. I went three seasons without placing 1v1 and still only had to do one. Do you not place on any league at all? Or is it that you just never played with that premade team before?


I didn't play *any* games last season, so I had to do 5 placement matches instead of 1 for this season because my MMR got reset (well I think it did, right?). I won my first 4 games but lost the last one, which I posted here for analysis.

@CravinR1

Thanks for your time, that's a very helpful analysis. I decided to go early lair because I was afraid of void rays. I lose so often to them because I lack hydras.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> I decided to go early lair because I was afraid of void rays. I lose so often to them because I lack hydras.


Hydras are an improper response to Voids, you need to be making Queens instead. Hydra tech is completely obsolete in ZvP currently


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Hydras are an improper response to Voids, you need to be making Queens instead. Hydra tech is completely obsolete in ZvP currently


Not really, it's a popular response to gateway + stargate pushes. Hydras are good against gateway and stargate units, they just instantly die the second a colossus hits the field.

If it's just one stargate and a fairly early push with like 3-4 phoenix and maybe 1-2 voids, queens will be fine. For dual stargate or later pushes with 3-4+ voids, hydras are the common response.


----------



## Ghooble

Spoiler about the NASL finals


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Man Huk got crushed


----------



## Sybr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghooble*
> 
> Spoiler about the NASL finals
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Man Huk got crushed


Yes,


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



he was crying











I stayed up until 3 AM to watch the finals. Totally worth it









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Stephano fightiiing!


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> Yes,
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> he was crying





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Not gonna lie, I probably would have beat the hell out of someone in a fit of rage. It was a hometown hero type thing, to go out like that is really awful.


----------



## poroboszcz

My new imba TvZ build: http://drop.sc/223063


----------



## CravinR1

I was playing 2v2 with my son (who has only played a few games and isn't into SC2 at all so he loses to bronze).

We played a ZT who did a ling/rine all in and the zerg was talking smack the entire time. So I asked him 1v1 and he said sure, but after the match he wouldn't accept then he saw I was only silver (he was gold) and said ok.

I was playing the protoss Kingison.

Shakuras Plateau (26).zip 62k .zip file


----------



## Sybr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Replay
> 
> 
> 
> I was playing 2v2 with my son (who has only played a few games and isn't into SC2 at all so he loses to bronze).
> We played a ZT who did a ling/rine all in and the zerg was talking smack the entire time. So I asked him 1v1 and he said sure, but after the match he wouldn't accept then he saw I was only silver (he was gold) and said ok.
> I was playing the protoss Kingison.
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (26).zip 62k .zip file


That terran turtled hard! I'd say you play very well for silver league. Also, nice manners at the start of the game


----------



## CravinR1

Oops wrong replay, i'll post the zerg soon. My main is platinum protoss

Daybreak LE (36).zip 31k .zip file


----------



## Sybr

You opened well, but not scouting and then moving out with all your sentries was a big mistake. However, you controlled the situation very well. Although a single force field at the start of the runby would have caused the zerg to say gg after that all in


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sybr*
> 
> You opened well, but not scouting and then moving out with all your sentries was a big mistake. However, you controlled the situation very well. Although a single force field at the start of the runby would have caused the zerg to say gg after that all in


Didn't have any sentries or a warp cycle on gates

After taking out his expo and didn't see him try to take it I prepared for a roach all in, not a ling

I was moving the immortal/sentries toward his base to meet at the pylon + cannon at his natural. I was going to push in to end it. Didn't expect to meet that many lings. Like I said was expecting a roach all in so got immortals asap instead of obs.

But 17 zealots > 50 lings any day


----------



## TranquilTempest

Code S is on, DRG vs MC


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I was playing 2v2 with my son (who has only played a few games and isn't into SC2 at all so he loses to bronze).
> We played a ZT who did a ling/rine all in and the zerg was talking smack the entire time. So I asked him 1v1 and he said sure, but after the match he wouldn't accept then he saw I was only silver (he was gold) and said ok.
> I was playing the protoss Kingison.
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (26).zip 62k .zip file


Lol I usualy play 2v2 mostly and when the opponent starts losing he brings up face me in 1v1 but after the game he usually messages me fasts and swears/rages then mutes me before we actually play the game. Now anytime the opponent starts raging in a game i just mute them


----------



## Anti!!

I do the whole last word block user move. Haha


----------



## CravinR1

I don't remember raging, just the zerg was talking trash about how bad we were and I said "1v1"
and he said ok. Then afterwards he woldn't but his "cousin" ally accepted and said I wanted his cousin cause he was the one talking trash.

Then I owned him and he left the game and blocked me lol


----------



## Anti!!

+1 for the home team!


----------



## TranquilTempest

I only block spambots, though there have been people that block me, get matched against me again, then get pissed that I'm not responding to anything they say.


----------



## Sybr

Anyone seen MLG summer arena?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Stephano vs Ryung, amazing casting!


----------



## Anti!!

Oh, why did i ladder for? JUST to not have enough time to get out of platinum and into mastas..


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Oh, why did i ladder for? JUST to not have enough time to get out of platinum and into mastas..


you tell me, im platinum forever..


----------



## squall325

I guess I'm going back to this game after getting bored with D3. Back to square one







)


----------



## yks

at least you guys aren't forever bronze =[=[=[


----------



## FrankoNL

Same here, i can't seem to get better and get out of bronze ....

There really should be a wood-league .. perfect for me


----------



## Anti!!

Lulz fest. Its still not good enough for me!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

Practice league 4v4s on normal speed FTW!


----------



## QuadDamage

Add me bro's
Quad-Damage 454


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> Add me bro's
> Quad-Damage 454


YOu add me. lol

RaginNydusDS 411


----------



## QuadDamage

I only cheese and BM I hope that ok


----------



## Anti!!

You def. Will when i get done with you. Lol

Jks jks.maybe i can get online sometime.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Honestly i am getting sooooo frustrated with this game, like im #1 in my 3v3gold league and 78% of the time the server pairs me with garbage newbs that always lose the game, so sick and tired of it, like why am i the one paired with bronze league plays when the other team has plat and diamond players on it??

lucky enough i have like 150points about number new so it dont matter as far as rank goes, its just annoying losing to stupidity

Feel free to add me if you play 3v3s
raven 843


----------



## CravinR1

2v2 is for lulz and 3v3 and 4v4 don't count


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Cool thread. anyone up for traning a noob? Not new to starcraft just suck at it and would like to get better. Watch videos but they dont really help.


----------



## CravinR1

What race do you play?

Have you tried Day9's newbie tuesday vids


----------



## TranquilTempest

Watch your replays for three things:

Constantly producing workers
no supply block
money under 500.(replace with no missed injects if z)

If you fail to do all of those three things, spend 20 games fixing one of them, then reevealuate and pick another problem to spend 20 games working on.

There is a big difference between playing to win, and playing to improve. Focus on one problem at a time, and don't worry if that singlemindedness causes you to lose a few games, it's how you get better.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

ok I am slacking on those things. I do supply lock my self. I don't play any specific race but I guess i am best with toss.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Of course, anyone can be good with Protoss ^^


----------



## Dimaggio1103

No joke I did what you said practiced not supply blocking myself, min under 500, and constantly building workers. That alone got me 7 wins in a row when I went to multiplayer. lol

Such a noob at this game and I played the first one years ago. thanks for the tips guys. any more are welcomed.


----------



## CravinR1

When you get 3 bases saturated (approx 75 workers) its time to cut worker production


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Watch your replays for three things:
> Constantly producing workers
> no supply block
> money under 500.(replace with no missed injects if z)
> If you fail to do all of those three things, spend 20 games fixing one of them, then reevealuate and pick another problem to spend 20 games working on.
> There is a big difference between playing to win, and playing to improve. Focus on one problem at a time, and don't worry if that singlemindedness causes you to lose a few games, it's how you get better.


Is this really the way to improve?


----------



## FrankoNL

What are you guys ranks and leagues?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Mid-high masters, and yes, the way you improve is by focusing on one problem at a time until you fix it. Those three problems are generally the most severe for lower league players, and relatively straightforward to fix.


----------



## FrankoNL

yeah i definitely need practice on those things. keeping money low is a problem. But also which buildorder to use and when to make certain units are problems i can not seem to shake off.

When to expand? .. what to do against tanks? Those kind of questions.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> yeah i definitely need practice on those things. keeping money low is a problem. But also which buildorder to use and when to make certain units are problems i can not seem to shake off.
> When to expand? .. what to do against tanks? Those kind of questions.


These answers come only with practice and asking specific questions.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Your first expansion should be part of your opening, the only matchup where it's not usually safe to FE is PvP. As for which units to use, that's not really an issue, you can really use ANY unit combination until you get to masters. the bigger question is when to make what buildings, the actual units are just determined by how much you have of each resource. As for tanks, generally you want to abuse mobility, force him to siege up a lot before he gets to your base, so you can get whatever it is you need to stop it. also counterattack a lot, force him to split his army up.


----------



## 13321G4

Franko are you on EU?

Add me! RlndRSA #171

I haven't played starcraft in a long time, and have found some new builds in which I am extremely interested!

PvP will now be based around DT's.
PvT will be gateway heavy with a WP to drop ~10 min.

Only PvZ is still my old school stargate play


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Franko are you on EU?
> Add me! RlndRSA #171
> I haven't played starcraft in a long time, and have found some new builds in which I am extremely interested!
> PvP will now be based around DT's.
> PvT will be gateway heavy with a WP to drop ~10 min.
> Only PvZ is still my old school stargate play


Stargate PvZ is the weakest strategy in the matchup. Easily stomped by the max roach build.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Franko are you on EU?
> Add me! RlndRSA #171
> I haven't played starcraft in a long time, and have found some new builds in which I am extremely interested!
> PvP will now be based around DT's.
> PvT will be gateway heavy with a WP to drop ~10 min.
> Only PvZ is still my old school stargate play


I will add you!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Stargate PvZ is the weakest strategy in the matchup. Easily stomped by the max roach build.


Funny, since that is the only thing i die to in zvp. Lol


----------



## TiHawk560

Hey OCN. Pretty new here only been a couple weeks but definitely not new to Starcraft 2. I'm a scrub in that I have over 8000 ladder games but I am still only in diamond leagues for teams and plat for 1v1(only a couple hundred 1v1's). That being said when I started I dived head first into ladder games not even know what a build order was!

Just wanted to say hi and see if I could find some 4v4 or 3v3 friends or better yet some 1v1 practice partners/coaches.


----------



## yks

^ You should leave your name and character code.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

New patch is live and Im loving it!

Update guys thanks to many of your advice's I made it from bronze to silver. However, I still lose quite a bit. Anyone willing to look at some of my replays and give me pointers?


----------



## Anti!!

Sure. Just upload your replays to drop.sc and post the link. Im sure someone will find time to analyze it for you.


----------



## poroboszcz

This patch is a mess.


----------



## Qu1ckset

raven 843
3v3 gold rank #1 100points above#2 add me
how do i find out my total rank wins with this new update i cant find out how to find out ??


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> This patch is a mess.


Elaborate pz.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Elaborate pz.


List of 1.5 Problems.

Also, I finally have time to play again


----------



## poroboszcz

There are quite a few bugs. A big issue for me is that I can't find YABOT map I've used before (unofficial Antiga version) and all the official ones don't work any more. After loading all I get is an empty map covered with fog of war.

Getting into a custom games seems less intuitive that it was. I somehow have to click more. And I wonder why they still didn't implement an option to leave the game once the countdown has started. How difficult could it be? Instead you have to log out every time you get a bad matchup or an opponent +-2 leagues from you. I can't wait for the unranked ladder in hots. Or better yet an option to specify the league and race you want to play against.


----------



## Anti!!

Hot diggity son! I leave sc2 for 4weeks and this is what they do to it? Shhhheeesssshhhh.

NarcotiX, maybe you broke it by comming back. Lol


----------



## HometownHero

^^ No doubt







. I suspect that Blizzard is going to get some heat for not making immediate changes, considering what happened during the Taeja v. Idra game today at Asus ROG.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I'm curious to see what will happen when HOTS makes its debut.

The new layout is kind of neat, but more confusing than anything else.

Custom gaming is not intuitive, as the "Custom" section only shows Blizz maps. You have to find the actual custom maps via "Arcade".

I need to get a good team for threes again.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Ok so here is one of my typical replays for reviewing. I am trying to learn terran and expand on my skill set in game.

Review is and let me know what I can do to improve on. I won that game but know I just got lucky.

Thank for any critiques guys.

http://drop.sc/233216


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Ok so here is one of my typical replays for reviewing. I am trying to learn terran and expand on my skill set in game.
> Review is and let me know what I can do to improve on. I won that game but know I just got lucky.
> Thank for any critiques guys.
> http://drop.sc/233216


2 supply depots before barracks?

You are delaying your orbital, you should have it by 15 and got super early gas and did nothing with it you cut workers at 15

You only made 23 workers in a 16 min game, and the only reason you won is the zerg didn't make detection fast enough

You should spend energy on scans and mules, not as much on supply as you did

Shakuras Plateau (35).zip 24k .zip file


I'm mainly a toss player but play in silver/gold on random. Here is one of my TvPs:


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Yeah... new patch is terrible. Loaded with bugs that should have been fixed in the beta (which was on for over a month), and a terrible terrible UI change.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> 2 supply depots before barracks?
> You are delaying your orbital, you should have it by 15 and got super early gas and did nothing with it you cut workers at 15
> You only made 23 workers in a 16 min game, and the only reason you won is the zerg didn't make detection fast enough
> You should spend energy on scans and mules, not as much on supply as you did
> 
> Shakuras Plateau (35).zip 24k .zip file
> 
> I'm mainly a toss player but play in silver/gold on random. Here is one of my TvPs:


Thanks R1, putting changes in effect. After more practice Ill post another replay. I watched yours and gave me great ideas.


----------



## Invisible

Does anyone have any problems with SC2 running as a non-steam game? I believe 1.5 may have broken it, since I've had no trouble beforehand. I know it uses a launcher, but now, once it closes, it thinks SC2 is closed for good, even though the actual game is now booting.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> ^^ No doubt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I suspect that Blizzard is going to get some heat for not making immediate changes, considering what happened during the Taeja v. Idra game today at Asus ROG.


Oooo. Oooooo ooooo. Links or it didnt happen.


----------



## yks

At least they made it so PF/OC can make SCVs off one hotkey!


----------



## Anti!!

Can someone please do something interesting? I have had no time and there for have not been able to play sc2 or any game for that matter. I am dying to see some type of sc2 convos, news, replays, links to good sc2 videos. Something!! Lol

Edit: post1400!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

Two remarkable series from TSL4 ro32:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nluynokVSN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQq-YTjnRV0&feature=relmfu


----------



## burwij

CNN posted an article a couple of days ago talking about pro gaming and gaming addiction in South Korea. They followed MarineKing at WCG2011 and looked at his path to becoming a pro.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/08/tech/gaming.series/korea.html

Some people were upset that they highlighted the "dark side of gaming" and they posted a follow-up yesterday:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/05/tech/gaming-gadgets/esport-athletes-gaming-south-korea/index.html

There's also a video with MVP:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/tech/2012/08/01/natpkg-orig-korea-life-of-pro-gamer.cnn#/video/tech/2012/08/01/natpkg-orig-korea-life-of-pro-gamer.cnn

Kinda interesting to see this stuff on CNN, though I don't know if all publicity is good publicity.


----------



## CravinR1

So I decided to play some on one of my platinum accounts. I went 6-2 for the most part I did ok.

My first game was against a diamond toss. Cheese off the bat!

My last game was against a Terran.

So guys tell me if you notice something blatant I need to work on.

Plat P v PT.zip 64k .zip file


I do pretty well vs terrans. The only game I lost was the first when I played GREEDY. Had 3 nexus before I had gas at my second and instead of making gates I made robo and 2 forge and twilight (yeah my own fault) Coudln't make enough units to stop his push


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Two remarkable series from TSL4 ro32:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nluynokVSN8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQq-YTjnRV0&feature=relmfu


Trying my best to catch up. Just finished the theorzain games.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So I decided to play some on one of my platinum accounts. I went 6-2 for the most part I did ok.
> My first game was against a diamond toss. Cheese off the bat!
> My last game was against a Terran.
> So guys tell me if you notice something blatant I need to work on.
> 
> Plat P v PT.zip 64k .zip file
> 
> I do pretty well vs terrans. The only game I lost was the first when I played GREEDY. Had 3 nexus before I had gas at my second and instead of making gates I made robo and 2 forge and twilight (yeah my own fault) Coudln't make enough units to stop his push


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> CNN posted an article a couple of days ago talking about pro gaming and gaming addiction in South Korea. They followed MarineKing at WCG2011 and looked at his path to becoming a pro.
> http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/08/tech/gaming.series/korea.html
> Some people were upset that they highlighted the "dark side of gaming" and they posted a follow-up yesterday:
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/05/tech/gaming-gadgets/esport-athletes-gaming-south-korea/index.html
> There's also a video with MVP:
> http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/tech/2012/08/01/natpkg-orig-korea-life-of-pro-gamer.cnn#/video/tech/2012/08/01/natpkg-orig-korea-life-of-pro-gamer.cnn
> Kinda interesting to see this stuff on CNN, though I don't know if all publicity is good publicity.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Two remarkable series from TSL4 ro32:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nluynokVSN8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQq-YTjnRV0&feature=relmfu


Nom Nom NOm Nom!!

Thanks guys. Never dissapoint!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> *snip*


ouch, that first link really had a negative look on gaming. I feel gaming is still largely misunderstood since most of the first generation of gamers are only just starting to have children and/or grandchildren, so I feel it'll be a while before video games will stop getting fingers pointed at. It's like the "blame the devil's music" all over again in my opinion.

I bet more people have been negatively impacted or died from sports addiction throughout the time games have been around for, than as a result of gaming (adrenaline junkies who go to higher and higher extremes to satisfy their needs for a rush is just one example).

The key like it has been said a ton is moderation - almost anything in excess can be harmful. I'm not sure if the article conveniently left it out, correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard many members of professional starcraft teams take regular breaks to exercise.


----------



## Anti!!

Well, like they said in the second article. Is Olympians addicted to their sport?

I mean really. I have been addicted to games, but its called self control. I had to tell myself. Im not gonna be a pro. I have to much to sacrifice in life to invest such dedication. So, ill do my second choice. Be an IT wiz, and play when i can.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> ouch, that first link really had a negative look on gaming. I feel gaming is still largely misunderstood since most of the first generation of gamers are only just starting to have children and/or grandchildren, so I feel it'll be a while before video games will stop getting fingers pointed at. It's like the "blame the devil's music" all over again in my opinion.
> I bet more people have been negatively impacted or died from sports addiction throughout the time games have been around for, than as a result of gaming (adrenaline junkies who go to higher and higher extremes to satisfy their needs for a rush is just one example).
> The key like it has been said a ton is moderation - almost anything in excess can be harmful. I'm not sure if the article conveniently left it out, correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard many members of professional starcraft teams take regular breaks to exercise.


I actually did a paper on this in college. It was based around a study done by PBS in favor that gaming has little to no effect on people turning "psycho". They found that the only time violent games affected a person negativity, was those who already had a predisposition to violent tendency's mixed with delusional mental states. It was funny cause the best source for video games not being the "devils tool" was a study done by PBS. lol

I had a son recently and just like I did he will grow up playing video games if he wishes to, but like others have said everything in moderation.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> I actually did a paper on this in college. It was based around a study done by PBS in favor that gaming has little to no effect on people turning "psycho". They found that the only time violent games affected a person negativity, was those who already had a predisposition to violent tendency's mixed with delusional mental states. It was funny cause the best source for video games not being the "devils tool" was a study done by PBS. lol
> I had a son recently and just like I did he will grow up playing video games if he wishes to, but like others have said everything in moderation.


Same thing here. Everytime things get slow the first thing my 4 year old son says is, "Daddy, can i play angry birds on your phone?", or "Can i play ninja slice?". Sometimes its a yes and sometimes its a no. He doesnt need to be playing something all the time. Also, the second he shows he doesnt approve of my answer i crack down a little more.

Another thing. I dont understand whay these parents in these articles are "asking" their chirldren to stop playing.. If i say stop in my house you stop. End of discussion..


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Same thing here. Everytime things get slow the first thing my 4 year old son says is, "Daddy, can i play angry birds on your phone?", or "Can i play ninja slice?". Sometimes its a yes and sometimes its a no. He doesnt need to be playing something all the time. Also, the second he shows he doesnt approve of my answer i crack down a little more.
> *Another thing. I dont understand whay these parents in these articles are "asking" their chirldren to stop playing.. If i say stop in my house you stop. End of discussion.*.


Lol right?! I wont be asking my son anything when I am laying down rules. I remember back when I was growing up I was raised with my grandma and when she said do something, I did it or she would beat my ass with a paddle. Now I see kids running around screaming and parents just say "hes being expressive". lmao


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Lol right?! I wont be asking my son anything when I am laying down rules. I remember back when I was growing up I was raised with my grandma and when she said do something, I did it or she would beat my ass with a paddle. Now I see kids running around screaming and parents just say "hes being expressive". lmao


///facepalm

You are soooo right..


----------



## CravinR1

I got ripped off when I was growing up.

I thought "Cause I said so" was the definative "do what you're told before I smack you"


----------



## CravinR1

ok here is why people smurf

100 proof smirnoff ..........:

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/327937404

http://www.twitch.tv/cravinr1/b/327933835

The second guy asked questions which I honestly answered. He thanked me time and time again. I don't try to be rude but i'm sure i'm capable of it


----------



## yks

Hopefully, tomorrow 5-6pm PST-ish, I will be hosting some customs for some 1v1 actions like we used to do.

Feel free to join @ the usual: "overclock.net" channel (no quotes).

And you guys really should remember to idle there//auto-join whenever you're on. Options -> Battle.net -> check mark Auto-Join Channels (on the right side under Chat Channels)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Hopefully, tomorrow 5-6pm PST-ish, I will be hosting some customs for some 1v1 actions like we used to do.
> Feel free to join @ the usual: "overclock.net" channel (no quotes).
> And you guys really should remember to idle there//auto-join whenever you're on. Options -> Battle.net -> check mark Auto-Join Channels (on the right side under Chat Channels)


I have no isp but maybe my 3g on my phone tethered will be enough. I may even borrow my bros phone. XD. (4g)

But someone has to support this. Lol I R Rusty. Dont pwn me to hard.

Edit: wait. You mean thursday dont you. Poo.. friday is better for me. Im working out tonight and may even help my bro move


----------



## TranquilTempest

phone internet is going to have high latency, even if it's a high throughput connection.


----------



## CravinR1

Am I the only one having problems with the game not loading sometimes? Or you click play and it grays out and doesn't load ??


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I have no isp but maybe my 3g on my phone tethered will be enough. I may even borrow my bros phone. XD. (4g)
> But someone has to support this. Lol I R Rusty. Dont pwn me to hard.
> Edit: wait. You mean thursday dont you. Poo.. friday is better for me. Im working out tonight and may even help my bro move


I don't even know what the current build-trends are, T_T, people go easy on me!

10-20mins, for those of you who can make it. channel: overclock.net


----------



## yks

Played a SINGLE game already.

Watching fellow OCNer: http://www.twitch.tv/hummingb1rd

while waiting for more games. show up people!


----------



## Anti!!

Couldnt do. Had no time.

Also. I used to 1v1 with 3g no probs.


----------



## CravinR1

http://www.twitch.tv/hummingb1rd

He's top 8 masters/GM and i've yet to see him lose a game.

Calm and good commentary. Check him out


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> What are you guys ranks and leagues?


this is me so far...


----------



## Qu1ckset

Man how do i get outta gold league, been stuck here all month, been #1 all month...


----------



## TranquilTempest

to get #1 in gold league you need to play a lot of games. To get into plat you need to stop losing to gold players.

Every game you lose to a gold player, watch the replay and decide to change one small thing the next time(E.G. if you see a bunker in his nat, cut a zealot so you can make third gateway earlier), write it down and follow it the next time you hit that matchup. Repeat.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Man how do i get outta gold league, been stuck here all month, been #1 all month...


lol, i was gold 1 for weeks but then BOOMM platinum.. im 25 plat rigth now, just keep playing


----------



## CravinR1

When me and my friend skyrocketed from gold to masters in 2v2 (the strat has been posted here many times)

We were plat for one day. The thing is you have to consistantly beat the next league up while not losing to your current league. When we were diamond we never lost diamond and beat masters more than 50/50


----------



## Farih

Hey guys,

Just got meself this game to give it a try.
I have nearly finished the campaign now to. [really like the campaign to]

The thing is when you go to multiplayer all the sudden you have different unit/structure upgrade's then in the campaign.
You also have other races in multiplayer then the one you have been playing in the campaign and you know nothing about them :-(

Are there tutorials for multiplayer game's ?
Tutorials for the other race's ?

Where do i start to become better/good in multiplayer game's ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## CravinR1

Play vs AI

The campaign does throw you off and doesn't remotely help you when playing online.

Basically watching youtube casters like Husky or Day9 (newbie tuesdays are great)


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Hey guys,
> Just got meself this game to give it a try.
> I have nearly finished the campaign now to. [really like the campaign to]
> The thing is when you go to multiplayer all the sudden you have different unit/structure upgrade's then in the campaign.
> You also have other races in multiplayer then the one you have been playing in the campaign and you know nothing about them :-(
> Are there tutorials for multiplayer game's ?
> Tutorials for the other race's ?
> Where do i start to become better/good in multiplayer game's ?
> Thanks in advance


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255


----------



## 13321G4

Finally some more European SC2 players ITT!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Just got meself this game to give it a try.
> I have nearly finished the campaign now to. [really like the campaign to]
> 
> The thing is when you go to multiplayer all the sudden you have different unit/structure upgrade's then in the campaign.
> You also have other races in multiplayer then the one you have been playing in the campaign and you know nothing about them :-(
> 
> Are there tutorials for multiplayer game's ?
> Tutorials for the other race's ?
> 
> Where do i start to become better/good in multiplayer game's ?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Add me! RlndRSA #171
I'd love to give you some tips.
















On a side note: As a toss I'm having so much difficulties against Terran







. I open 1 gate expand hoping that he will also expand but whenever the Terran doesn't I haven't got a clue what to do. It is also the matchup that (IMHO) requires the absolute most multitasking and especially minimap awareness. Too busy focussing on killing his main army? well too bad, a double drop just entered your main and one has taken your third...

I do 'always' prepare with two HT's to feedback but I'm often too late.

Story time:
Being on time with drops is lots of fun though. A massive doom drop with tanks and all the good stuff was heading for my main on daybreak and my army was out of position but the 2 HT managed to feedback all the medivacs and BOOM.... only vikings left







.
A different game on daybreak a double drop was heading for my main and I notice it just as it appears on my minimap. Move and select my HT but he notices them so moves away. Thinking to my self triumphantly HA-HA! he can't drop. He moves out of sight of the minimap and up and back to the main. I see this though but HT are so slow that I'm spamming the **** out of feedback on the two medivacs... Eventually I waste all the 350/400 energy on re-feedbacking the medivacs and die.


----------



## CravinR1

Zerg is the match up I have problems with

Terran are pretty easy at plat level. I find if I have enough gates I do well. I hope you're going zealot/sentry heavy early game ? FF behind the army and letting the zealots chop them up.

I can't get SC2 to load at present but I'll soon get a replay for you to check out.

Granted he was rusty but when I played ItsTimeToDie I did pretty well til he picked metalopolis and dropped everywhere...... which meta is a horrible Terran favored map IMHO

Here is a plat level PvT, and ItsTimeToDie got promoted to Diamond the next day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Di931VaT4

I do 1 gate fe, get zealot then stalker then expo, then sentry then second gas then chrono probes then get robo, get 2 obs (one to scout him and one for my base for cloaked banshees) then get a fast robo bay then 4 more gates (based on probe saturation at my expo)

I get 3 sentries, then 4 or 5 zealots. If they do a 2 or 3 rax all in I ff the army in half and let the zealots eat them up.


----------



## MrDucktape

Quick question: in zvt, as zerg, can you 15 hatch 14 pool and proceed to banelingburst an oponent who went 1 rax expand without expecting hellions by the time you get there?

THX


----------



## Farih

Thanks for help and links people


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrDucktape*
> 
> Quick question: in zvt, as zerg, can you 15 hatch 14 pool and proceed to banelingburst an oponent who went 1 rax expand without expecting hellions by the time you get there?
> THX


Why would you do that? That's a terrible build


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrDucktape*
> 
> Quick question: in zvt, as zerg, can you 15 hatch 14 pool and proceed to banelingburst an oponent who went 1 rax expand without expecting hellions by the time you get there?
> THX


You can baneling bust after hatchfirst, but you'll want enough drones that you can pump lings from 2hatch w/ inject.
Try 15 hatch 16 pool 16 gas, 2 queen when pool finishes.
1 egg of lings (more if he's pushing)
All queen energy to injects, no creep.
drones until 40 supply (32 drones on minerals, 3 on gas)
First 100 gas ling speed
next 50 gas baneling nest
now all ovies, lings, and blings.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ipwnnubletz*
> 
> Why would you do that? That's a terrible build


Way to be helpful. Its better to say nothing in that instance.


----------



## Slayem

Anyone else having issues since the patch? my game crashes if i change resolution, or when i minimize. Sort of anoying!


----------



## CravinR1

Game sometimes doesn't launch, and if i'm playing and someone trys to skype me I have to exit to answer then restart game.

Also seems Xsplit won't have audio unless I start the stream before I start the game.

.......... not a fan of the new patch at all


----------



## 13321G4

Has someone here experimented with SC2gears private streaming?

It seems like my modem is a POS that's blocked by the ISP, is anyone getting more success?


----------



## VaiFanatic

The patch has also caused issues with placement. I've won every placement match, and I end up in silver. Then I end up playing a bunch of platinum and diamonds being the only silver in the entire match. It's even more ridiculous that after continuing to win, I'm not bumped into Gold or something. -__-


----------



## CravinR1

My MMR got tanked to where I was playing Bronze, yet I'm #1 gold. It wouldn't demote my alternate account for anything


----------



## VaiFanatic

Just played another 5 matches in 3s, all diamonds with me being the only silver. Went 4-1.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm sure everyone here subscribes to day 9's youtube channel

BUT here is Day9 and blizzard cocasting a HotS game


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> The patch has also caused issues with placement. I've won every placement match, and I end up in silver. Then I end up playing a bunch of platinum and diamonds being the only silver in the entire match. It's even more ridiculous that after continuing to win, I'm not bumped into Gold or something. -__-


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> Just played another 5 matches in 3s, all diamonds with me being the only silver. Went 4-1.


That's not really a bug - it's pretty much how the system works. Going 5-0 doesn't necessarily guarantee you placement in Platinum or Diamond, especially if you 5-0 a bunch of Bronze players in 30 minutes total. Once you're placed, Blizzard doesn't move you around until they're absolutely certain you belong in a specific league, and for the system to zero in on your skill level you need to reach a point where you're losing 50% of your games. If you're in Silver beating Gold players 100% of the time, the system doesn't know whether to put you in Gold or something higher - maybe you're a Diamond player who is getting back into the game after a couple of months off. Rather than promote you every 10 games, they'll wait until you level off to minimize your league hopping.

In the end, your league icon doesn't mean much until you've played a ton of games. Your matchmaking rating (MMR) is a hidden rating that corresponds to your skill level and determines who you get matched against; win and it goes up, lose and it goes down. You're getting matched against Diamond players, so right now the system thinks that you might measure up against current Diamond players. You won't know whether they're low, mid, or high Diamond unless you look into their match history to see what kind of streak they're on, so right now you could be at a mid/high Platinum or a mid/high Diamond.

If you want a super in-depth description of how the ladder works, there's a good post on TL:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

tl;dr - You won't get promoted until you start losing half of your games since it doesn't know where your skill level lies - are you Plat, Diamond, or Masters?


----------



## CravinR1

http://www.twitch.tv/hummingb1rd

OCN's own is a fantastic stream to watch. He's random Masters/GM and answers questions. Very cool guy


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> That's not really a bug - it's pretty much how the system works. Going 5-0 doesn't necessarily guarantee you placement in Platinum or Diamond, especially if you 5-0 a bunch of Bronze players in 30 minutes total. Once you're placed, Blizzard doesn't move you around until they're absolutely certain you belong in a specific league, and for the system to zero in on your skill level you need to reach a point where you're losing 50% of your games. If you're in Silver beating Gold players 100% of the time, the system doesn't know whether to put you in Gold or something higher - maybe you're a Diamond player who is getting back into the game after a couple of months off. Rather than promote you every 10 games, they'll wait until you level off to minimize your league hopping.
> In the end, your league icon doesn't mean much until you've played a ton of games. Your matchmaking rating (MMR) is a hidden rating that corresponds to your skill level and determines who you get matched against; win and it goes up, lose and it goes down. You're getting matched against Diamond players, so right now the system thinks that you might measure up against current Diamond players. You won't know whether they're low, mid, or high Diamond unless you look into their match history to see what kind of streak they're on, so right now you could be at a mid/high Platinum or a mid/high Diamond.
> If you want a super in-depth description of how the ladder works, there's a good post on TL:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
> tl;dr - You won't get promoted until you start losing half of your games since it doesn't know where your skill level lies - are you Plat, Diamond, or Masters?


So I have to lose a few games to be placed? :/

That's unfortunate. I've been on a bit of a roll. But if what you say it true, then it's fine. As long as I'm getting placed against people of equal skill (bronze is far too easy, as are silver and gold).

Good to know however how things work, though. Before the latest patch, however, I was always getting placed in platinum or higher. I'll just keep working through it.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Ive been learning Terran because its my favorite race, however Im best with toss. Im a silver player trying to get better should I stick it out with Terran or stick with what I know best?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Ive been learning Terran because its my favorite race, however Im best with toss. Im a silver player trying to get better should I stick it out with Terran or stick with what I know best?


You should play whatever you find most fun. Because in the long run it'll make you better.

So as long as a person plays, that person will always be getting better. So although you play best with Toss at the moment, if you enjoy Terran more, play terran. Then eventually your Terran will be better than your Toss and you'll be happier playing a race you enjoy.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> You should play whatever you find most fun. Because in the long run it'll make you better.
> So as long as a person plays, that person will always be getting better. So although you play best with Toss at the moment, if you enjoy Terran more, play terran. Then eventually your Terran will be better than your Toss and you'll be happier playing a race you enjoy.


Amen! Brother!!

@cravin

Yeah hummingb1rd's stream is awesome. Very enjoyable to see a good random.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I've been playing Zerg as my race of choice since 1998


----------



## TranquilTempest

Play the race you find most fun, but keep in mind you need to constantly fix problems with your play if you want to improve.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Amen! Brother!!
> @cravin
> Yeah hummingb1rd's stream is awesome. Very enjoyable to see a good random.


Taught him everything he knows. muwhahaha.

You get your internet back, yet?


----------



## 13321G4

Guys!

<--

Awesome!









In a way I'm sad, gold looked so much nicer









On to diamond xD


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Thanks for the advice guys. If im gonna play the race I find more fun that would have to be zerg. Which I am horrible at but still gonna give it a shot. Know any good builds to learn for zerg?


----------



## Ploppytheman

As for race picking if you are new you may want to wait for HotS. There is a custom map that is HotS without the graphics, jsut search for it in arcade. If you want to be a jerk 6pool people because everyone wants to test the new units so its a massive troll. Very very fun to do. Massive tears.

I've preferred toss in BW although I played all 3 quite a bit but a few months before SC2 beta came out I was practing Broodwar toss. Protoss just look cool, they have a lot of tech, have honor and are easily the most moral of the three races. Terran are basically opportunist scum that destroy everything and nuke each other while zerg murder billions of sentients as their main purpose. I mean out of Terran you have a few good people but its mostly trash. So lore/visual wise Toss is definitely my fav.

As for gameplay I hate zerg and I like Terran and Toss. If Terran didnt have maruaders it would be a lot harder to pick between the two but since beta herp derpin marauders just turned me off. If actual tank mech was viable in all 3 MUs I might go Terran because Terran is really fun even with marauders. For toss everything is ok, not good but ok. Colossi sucks and they made storm really weak and the air units are pretty bad and very very niche. Ghosts are still way better than HT and starting with 50 energy is pretty stupid. In BW you would start with 62.5 if you had the upgrade. For some reason its ok for ghosts and infestors to keep their energy upgrade though. Fungal/EMP feel much better than Templar since fungal does more damage than the average storm (same for EMP) but fungal allows you to get a lot more attacks in... Gateway is very weak and you feel super dependant on tier 3, perfect forcefields, and/or superior upgrades to be on par with herp derp roaches/marauderps. And there isn't really many ways to harass since gateway units SUCK and other units are extremely expensive and toss doesnt usually have air control. I mean zealot harass is ok but it usually requires errors on your opponents part it feels like and they can simply run their workers from slow zealots...

What I really wanted to talk about was HotS though. I know its too early to make judgements but zerg and terran units seem awesome while the toss units seem crap.

Tempest-
The tempest is just trash that seems designed to counter broodlords, swarmhosts, tanks, and maybe BCs? I mean besides the pheonix toss air seems extremely crappy and even the pheonix is mediocre. Void rays are very niche and are super slow with low range and low hp so its impossible to use them. They got nerfed like 50x since the beta to the point where its rare to see them especially after infestor buff which also makes pheonix obsolete. I mean besides the fact that colossi and air units make it so toss cant tech switch to the other and the counter is already made toss air is not useful or effective due to missile turrets, marines, emp, or infestor/queens or the zerg just tech switching to roaches. Nony said it best "the problem with phoenix isnt that they are bad vs muta, the problem is that they are bad vs not muta" in regards to the range buff which is just stupid and requires LESS micro. The carrier is pretty bad too and the Mship is obviously niche in PvZ but has some use in other MUs. Why not give the carrier some range instead of the pheonix or at least allow it to kite like in BW. Tempest seems like a super lazy attempt to make a carrier for babies.

mship + core
The Mship is actually the best part of HotS b/c the Mship core allows toss to actually pressure without risking losing all their units. Since toss scouting is absolutely atrocious (marines, walls, zerglings, queens all deny scouting past the initial worker scout) so if you move out as toss you risk losing everything to speedlings or marauderps or even marines on a ramp gibbing a stalker. Your units are either slow or weak and need to be in a ball even at the start. Hallucination is expensive early game and obs requires robo and pheonix requires sgate so by scouting them they get a lot of info about you which is somewhat counterproducitve but you have already chosen your tech path to scout which is the main problem. I think the Oracle is supposed to be our scout now since it allows us to recover the loss of building it and the robo but I think it can be gibbed easily since it has such low health and isnt very fast actually.

The recall and recharge are awesome. It will make HT drops and timings viable and give a massive amount of versatility that was badly needed to toss. I mean you can refill a unit to full energy for 25 Mship core energy. This means you can go mass econ chrono probes, faster upgrades, faster robo units or faster double robo, storm drops, phenoix lift potential, or even make gateway timing more powerful in both their strength and ability to be secret.

The siege cannon is nice because a zerg getting some lings into your base is near impossible to fight off since you have no units capable of killing and catching lings and will possibly make pvp have a defenders advantage. It might even help vs rine/hellion drops.

The actualy Mship abilities are not really known but they nerfed vortex a ton so it wont hit air but added stasis for air... pretty stupid if you ask me. I don't think we will be seeing any Mships anymore.

Oracle:
Meh, seems to weak for a cloaking unit, emtomb is kind of meh as well. Rines and zerglings and queens should be able to easily kill this early game when its most effective and the timing will be known fairly quickly. Mules are already dropped at the natural ASAP where the army is, I guess you could feign pressure and entomb the main or attack teh 3rd and emtomb the main during a critical point in an attack but overall I just dont like it. It seems gimmicky.

Replicator:
... is gone, woulda been awesome, would have loved to show the other races how OP their stuff is haha. SCV -> CC -> Rax -> Mules -> bigger army YES PLEASE. Marines you say? Guess Ill never build stalkers again. Roach immortal and maybe pheonix GG zerg. Marine Colossi Medivac gg Terran.

Crappy gateway unit removed and replaced by good other race unit + good toss high tier unit = gg

I want zealot leg speed the most though. Charge is trash because it doesnt let you flank which is howmelee units are used best.


----------



## VaiFanatic

BW definitely had it's balances, Corsairs were great AA units with the ability to suppress land targets with it's stasis. The Arbiter was useful too, along with the dark archon, and dragoon. Toss definitely had an easier chance standing up to the other races in the first.

Keep in mind, unlike Terran and the Zerg, the Toss were royally screwed after the end of BW, having lost a lot of capabilities. Unfortunately, they lost a little too much to continue fighting on.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Thanks for the advice guys. If im gonna play the race I find more fun that would have to be zerg. Which I am horrible at but still gonna give it a shot. Know any good builds to learn for zerg?


Remember not to confuse most fun with how fresh/new something is.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> I want zealot leg speed the most though. Charge is trash because it doesnt let you flank which is howmelee units are used best.


You do know that charge also increases the speed of zealots right?


----------



## CravinR1

You can also turn off autocast so it won't charge until you want it to


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You do know that charge also increases the speed of zealots right?


To the same speed as stalkers(which makes them useless for mid engagement flanking). In BW there was real benefit to microing your zealots during an engagement(for example, stutter stepping foreward to get better surface area), but with chargelots, you really can't, because charge cooldowns for different zealots don't line up(even if you put it on manual) and base movement speed isn't even close to BW leg speed.


----------



## CravinR1

MC


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Taught him everything he knows. muwhahaha.
> You get your internet back, yet?


Not yet, but im getting close. I was actually able to play 2v2s with the 3g on my phone no probs at all last friday. No lag whatsoever. Maybe i will see you around.

And taught me everything i know? Lulz


----------



## 13321G4

This might be something interesting to see.

A lesson to what happens when you don't pay enough attention for a while.

Storms.zip 54k .zip file


Fast forward to 16:40. Worst part is that he saw it :O

Tips would be nice.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You do know that charge also increases the speed of zealots right?


lol I guess someone hasnt played broodwar.... i dont know if the map is still around but there is a broodwar+sc2 map in sc2 and the zealot moves at 3.5 or 3.75 or higher speed with leg speed, which is accurate to how fast they were in BW. Vultures were like 4.5 or something too. Or just go watch a PvT broodwar game on youtube. Zealots in sc2 are snails and being able to charge is completely worthless compared to flanking and actually being able to zealot harass. Melee units are good in surround and flanks, not being super slow and getting raped by MM before they get an attack off.

Edit: cant find the map.. but 2.75 w/ charge vs 3.75 its really obvious which is better

Edit: Yeh zealots are supposed to be their own forcefields. I don't think this would be OP either because zealots off by themselves is fail anyway, maybe blink stalkers could keep up I dont know. But like how zerglings are soo good thats how zealots should be. Concussive Skill is just lame, even if you watch pros they lose a ton of zlots cuz of how lame charge and Conc Skills are. With bigger maps there is no reason for leg speed to not exist, i mean lots get destroyed in everything but pvt.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> You can also turn off autocast so it won't charge until you want it to


If you keep them on move command they dont charge either which feels a lot easier to me, because thats how I use every other unit.

DTs are pretty trash too since even though zerg doesnt have base detection Overseers/spores got buffed insanely over time not to mention fungal and banelings can kill DTs and Dark Shrine is just lame. And now there is no comsat to kill so every terran has scans and dts are worthless. We dont have good air units to fight zerg either, and terran has really really really good air. Not to mention they can faceroll us with bio now too.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Not yet, but im getting close. I was actually able to play 2v2s with the 3g on my phone no probs at all last friday. No lag whatsoever. Maybe i will see you around.
> And taught me everything i know? Lulz


nono, i meant hummingbird


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> lol I guess someone hasnt played broodwar.... i dont know if the map is still around but there is a broodwar+sc2 map in sc2 and the zealot moves at 3.5 or 3.75 or higher speed with leg speed, which is accurate to how fast they were in BW. Vultures were like 4.5 or something too. Or just go watch a PvT broodwar game on youtube. Zealots in sc2 are snails and being able to charge is completely worthless compared to flanking and actually being able to zealot harass. Melee units are good in surround and flanks, not being super slow and getting raped by MM before they get an attack off.
> Edit: cant find the map.. but 2.75 w/ charge vs 3.75 its really obvious which is better
> Edit: Yeh zealots are supposed to be their own forcefields. I don't think this would be OP either because zealots off by themselves is fail anyway, maybe blink stalkers could keep up I dont know. But like how zerglings are soo good thats how zealots should be. Concussive Skill is just lame, even if you watch pros they lose a ton of zlots cuz of how lame charge and Conc Skills are. With bigger maps there is no reason for leg speed to not exist, i mean lots get destroyed in everything but pvt.
> If you keep them on move command they dont charge either which feels a lot easier to me, because thats how I use every other unit.
> DTs are pretty trash too since even though zerg doesnt have base detection Overseers/spores got buffed insanely over time not to mention fungal and banelings can kill DTs and Dark Shrine is just lame. And now there is no comsat to kill so every terran has scans and dts are worthless. We dont have good air units to fight zerg either, and terran has really really really good air. Not to mention they can faceroll us with bio now too.


I completely disagree.







Except that sc1 zealots were awesome.


----------



## TranquilTempest

In BW, the speed upgrade made microing your zealots more beneficial. In SC2, the charge upgrade makes microing zealots LESS beneficial. This is a widespread problem with SC2 unit balance, everything needs less micro to do full damage, other good examples are reaver vs colossus, lurker vs baneling, muta/scourge vs mutalisk, and vultures vs hellion. Then there are some abilities that should not exist, like forcefield and fungal.


----------



## General123

Just thought I would share this with you guys







Tell me how you like the quality please and the gameplay, and sorry for the random black outs (Fraps is just stupid I am going to just use DXtory for now on.) Also I am high gold/low plat vs a diamond player.



I will also take any criticism on my play gratefully


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Just thought I would share this with you guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me how you like the quality please and the gameplay, and sorry for the random black outs (Fraps is just stupid I am going to just use DXtory for now on.) Also I am high gold/low plat vs a diamond player.
> 
> 
> 
> I will also take any criticism on my play gratefully


Hard to tell because it's too dark, but it looks like the z had no idea what he was doing.


----------



## CravinR1

Crazy way to expo. The zerg could've ended the game with your building placements


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Hard to tell because it's too dark, but it looks like the z had no idea what he was doing.


Dark? Its probably just the map, and I think we was trying to go for those speedy hydras, vs toss lol







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Crazy way to expo. The zerg could've ended the game with your building placements


Yeah I messed up my gas timing I should of had my mothership core up earlier and the lings would of not done nearly as much damage.


----------



## CravinR1

Actually a 7 pool or even a roach all in would've killed you. If he had of bypassed your expo with the mothership core and went into your main he could've done massive econo damage. Or at least destroyed your main and gate and cybernetics

Bad placement in PvZ is a quick way to lose

When you say gold/plat are you referring to 1v1 or team games?

Cause team rank doesn't mean anything. I've been masters in 2v2 with a good build, but have never been higher than mid platinum in 1v1.

So I say i'm high gold/low plat. I don't claim to be masters cause 2v2 isn't what YOUR league is

From the video I would guess Toss is low silver/bronze and zerg is bronze. 18 min roach no corrupter vs colo? Let you have that third with no harassment.

Also your recording is TOO DARK, its from whatever you used to encode fraps to a smaller format, the settings you used. Compared to mine (and mine still needs tweaking)


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Dark? Its probably just the map, and I think we was trying to go for those speedy hydras, vs toss lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I messed up my gas timing I should of had my mothership core up earlier and the lings would of not done nearly as much damage.


It's not the map, look at the minimap in the video, all the dark grays are washed out to pure black. Turn your gamma up a bit.


----------



## CravinR1

Its his encoding settings. Here is another encoding I did when I was bronze and first learning

First ever fraps video from when I was bronze:




Last fraps video



I still have problems, in that last video the game sounds didn't come on (audio mixer didn't pick up my headset sounds)


----------



## General123

Yes of course I was talking about to 1v1








http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3050800/1/Protoss/
You can defiantly tell from my video that I am not like bronze lol, and placement was bad because I have not seen the map before, ever, and I was a bit nervous going against someone 2 ties ahead of me.
And thank you for the gama tip + rep to you both.


----------



## CravinR1

Still wouldn't call Gold 61 a high gold/low plat player









I'm 50's plat and say low plat/high gold
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1855111/1/ChadStrife/ladder/leagues#current-rank


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Still wouldn't call Gold 61 a high gold/low plat player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 50's plat and say low plat/high gold
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1855111/1/ChadStrife/ladder/leagues#current-rank


Check my match history, I dont play alot, my mmr is high gold plat. Rank does not matter in these low leagues


----------



## yks

That's one of my pet peeves with SC2. The High X-league / Low Y-League, saying.

In BW, you're D,C,B,A with -/+ between them. And that's what you are, and that's what you say. I'm an A+ Zerg, I'm a D- Terran, I'm a C- Protoss, etc. You are what you are, without trying to be more than it says. If I'm a C+ Zerg, I'll look and advertise in chat that I'm C+ looking to play C-/B+ players on map-Z. And you'd definitely get some good even games.

While I agree it's different in SC2, cause the ladder system is **** and made to encourage casuals/everybody, it's just something I've never been able to get over.

Like *why is MMR hidden*? The difference between someone who's "_Rank 1_" Masters in their division (because of useless points) and someone with an actual high MMR is *sooooo* astronomical.

I've been "Rank#1" in my Masters division and it didn't mean anything other than I had a lot of points. But then I play some guy who's "Rank#55" Masters in a Custom-Game, and he beats me sooooo easily. Come to find his hidden-MMR is amongst the upper-tier of players, playing against pros.

How am I suppose to find other similar Masters players around my level *if the MMR is hidden*, am I suppose to ladder all day?? Ladder doesn't fix everything. But it's the only way to face players your level.

_What if I need to do *custom games* against a specific race to practice a specific build_? The closest thing I can do is look if he has a Masters-Icon, and PRAY his MMR is similar to mine. So then it's *1/3 (33.33%)* chance of getting good practice. Either he's super low-MMR and I win easily or he's super high-mmr and I lose easily. Or 33.33% he's around the same and it's really good practice. Even though we're both "Masters"

Basically, Rank and Points mean nothing. The only thing that matters is MMR (which we can't see). I'd rather play a "Rank#90" Masters with similar/higher MMR, than play some "Rank#1" Masters whose MMR is so low, it's as if he's Diamond.

Basically, I just need MMR to be shown, so I know what I'm getting into when I play custom-games because the disparity within a SINGLE league is TOO high.


----------



## General123

I agree completely, nice post, you should ask on the sc2 forum as well as you made perfect sense ! I would rather SC2 be a game of numbers then of rare and precious resources lol, its fine if the symbols stay, but being 1-100 or 200 is silly, it should be based of off mmr alone.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I agree completely, nice post, you should ask on the sc2 forum as well as you made perfect sense ! I would rather SC2 be a game of numbers then of rare and precious resources lol, its fine if the symbols stay, but being 1-100 or 200 is silly, it should be based of off mmr alone.


Yeah. I mean, it's fine when you ladder. The system/algorithm (when its working) will place you against someone of similar skill level.

But if you need to do custom-games for practice, you definitely are just rolling the 33.33% dice.

I'll advertise: "Low Masters! Looking for 'X' for PvX on map-A," then a lot of misinformed people will message me, "You're rank#7, you're not low!" when really, I am. I just have a lot of those meaningless points the current ladder system uses. But in actuality my skill level is really low, even though I have a lot of points/high rank in my division, because my MMR is low.

If I know my MMR, I'd be able to get a more accurate practice partner outside of ladder.


----------



## DoomDash

Its better now than before. Remember when I was in an S class Diamond division long before masters? I was crushing people 100 points higher than me all the time and i didnt get it.


----------



## yks

It's always fine when you ladder. The algorithm will find you comparable people. Points aside, cause points are meaningless.

I'm talking about when I see people in chat and I'm like, "Hey dude, lets play some custom games!" It's impossible to know what you're getting into.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Anyone down for some 2v2s or 3v3s in like 20minz?


----------



## CravinR1

This is why I always zealot first in PvT

PvT 1 gate fe vs 1rax fe.zip 14k .zip file


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> This is why I always zealot first in PvT
> 
> PvT 1 gate fe vs 1rax fe.zip 14k .zip file


That cost effective zealot


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> That cost effective zealot


This is on my plat account vs a diamond player who yesterday beat a masters toss .... that MVP zealot !









Antiga Shipyard (12) PvT Diamond terran 1 gate fe aggression.zip 12k .zip file


.... I was a bit BM due to a zerg proxy hatch


----------



## snelan

Have there been any changes in HOTS recently? I kinda quit this game about 2 months ago once I realized that it is super frustrating to loose, as losses are usually caused by some cheesy tactic by the opponent, or a small mistake in scouting/glancing away from the mini-map. I was high diamond then, probably around mid plat now.

Anyway, are there any changes that could change the state of the game? If it turns into a completely new play style I might have to start playing again, but from what I saw last in HOTS a few months ago, it's just some new units.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Have there been any changes in HOTS recently? I kinda quit this game about 2 months ago once I realized that it is super frustrating to loose, as losses are usually caused by some cheesy tactic by the opponent, or a small mistake in scouting/glancing away from the mini-map. I was high diamond then, probably around mid plat now.
> Anyway, are there any changes that could change the state of the game? If it turns into a completely new play style I might have to start playing again, but from what I saw last in HOTS a few months ago, it's just some new units.


Poor poor chompers. Playing just for fun not worrying about loss or win is hard but key. In the end the game is meant for fun. Trust me. I know. My name is ragingnydus for a reason. Anyway, ive missed ya dude. Ive been working to much to play anything online. Shoot, im at work now. Lol probably all night too.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Poor poor chompers. Playing just for fun not worrying about loss or win is hard but key. In the end the game is meant for fun. Trust me. I know. My name is ragingnydus for a reason. Anyway, ive missed ya dude. Ive been working to much to play anything online. Shoot, im at work now. Lol probably all night too.


Hehe. It's too hard to do that with this game. I played like 10+ ladder games a day, and it's hard to keep that mindset that way. Customs were fun though, I just hate ladder. It seems no one actually cares about learning and developing strats, just winning. When we played we used real strats and tried to improve, and when we cheesed it was genuinely entertaining. I don't doubt I could be at least mid masters if I perfected the 6 pool, but where's the fun in that!

I can see why you stopped laddering. I started serious laddering early May, made it to late June. I must say I am proud









I must say Zerg is much more rage inducing than toss. We should switch to Protoss, then we can just 2 base all in every game and not worry about scouting/the other hard parts of the game. To all you toss players, sorry, I am not complaining, I don't even play this game anymore. I am just beginning to see the light!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Have there been any changes in HOTS recently? I kinda quit this game about 2 months ago once I realized that it is super frustrating to loose, as losses are usually caused by some cheesy tactic by the opponent, or a small mistake in scouting/glancing away from the mini-map. I was high diamond then, probably around mid plat now.
> Anyway, are there any changes that could change the state of the game? If it turns into a completely new play style I might have to start playing again, but from what I saw last in HOTS a few months ago, it's just some new units.


There is a HotS custom map, here's a replay from it: http://drop.sc/242095


----------



## yks

I feel bad for people who restrict themselves in the confines of "I hate cheese/cheesers"

I read this article a long time ago, and am happy to see that recently, *day9* and *artosis*, have been spreading this article around as well // telling people to buy his book.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

I really hope it changes peoples outlook on "cheap-ness"/"cheese," because it really does impose a mental block on a players growth. The author was the balance/designer for Street Fighter 2 HD Remix.


----------



## CravinR1

Ahh I know its part of the game, doesn't mean I dont get super pissed when it happens.

Though I get pissed if I lose a lot of "straight up games"


----------



## Anti!!

Yeah, our customs were awesome fun. At least if i ever do get online and we play customs we will still be equal match for each other. Lol. Our games made me love zvz.

I will encompass my problem with sc2 ladder in one word 'competitivness'. It runs super deep for me. Its why i rage period.

On another note i really like playing terran. Ive even considered playing random but im so ballz with themits kinda worthless. Its really rough when someone else jokes on your skill when you arent playing well. Shoot, sogey called my terran bronze at best, and he is supposed to be my clan mate.. lol. Talk about pissing someone off.. Gold, maybe but not bronze.. lol


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> I feel bad for people who restrict themselves in the confines of "I hate cheese/cheesers"
> I read this article a long time ago, and am happy to see that recently, *day9* and *artosis*, have been spreading this article around as well // telling people to buy his book.
> http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
> I really hope it changes peoples outlook on "cheap-ness"/"cheese," because it really does impose a mental block on a players growth. The author was the balance/designer for Street Fighter 2 HD Remix.


The fact that one can define an SC2 player as a "cheeser" or "not a cheeser" is what bothers me. I know you can ignore it, I did for a while. I am not mad at this game because of cheese, I am mad because I've only had about 2 or 3 games in my 700+ 1v1s where skill and understanding won the game for me or for him. Otherwise it's just been I make a small mistake, I loose. He makes a mistake, he looses. Sometimes it was even just a pure luck win.

Further, in your point, the enjoyment of this game should not be based upon how well you are able to cope with cheese. It is a video game, not a job. It shouldn't have to be treated as such. One should enjoy all aspects of it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Ahh I know its part of the game, doesn't mean I dont get super pissed when it happens.
> Though I get pissed if I lose a lot of "straight up games"


My point is, how straight up were those straight up games? Did you loose because he out thought you and you didn't have the skill set to beat him? Or because you missed a drop or a blip on the minimap? Or maybe had an even engagement and came out a little behind?

Ultimately, I would just like to say that I think it's the competitive aspect that keeps people going. For the two months I hardcore laddered I told myself I was going to make masters. I got to high diamond then asked myself if I was really having fun. I wasn't, so I stopped playing. I am not bashing the game, just stating my personal experiences.

EDIT: Anti, I still stand by my conclusion that Sogey is a SC2 bot


----------



## Anti!!

Lol, i hear ya. I have some evidence he isnt. Lol he has been part of our clan for nearly 5years, and he had ladder anxiety recently. Gasp!!! But of course he is already over it... And back in high masters as zerg. He is doing random now though. He is almost masters there too. I mean really, this is the guy that faired ok against EG incontrol.


----------



## yks

played 2 games with narcotix this morning.

more OCN people need to playyyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol, i hear ya. I have some evidence he isnt. Lol he has been part of our clan for nearly 5years, and he had ladder anxiety recently. Gasp!!! But of course he is already over it... And back in high masters as zerg. He is doing random now though. He is almost masters there too. I mean really, this is the guy that faired ok against EG incontrol.


Wow he played incrontol? Nice nice. I feel like incontrol has his strategy, and if he deviates from that he has no idea what to do lol. But that's pretty cool that Soge can go head to head with him.

I beat Soge about 3 times out of probably 20, by using cheesy strats. One base roach all in and I hid my roaches in the corner of the map, etc. Thus I am better than incontrol.









EDIT: He is the guy that accidentally made masters while trying to get demoted to plat on his friends acc.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> played 2 games with narcotix this morning.
> more OCN people need to playyyyyyyyyyyy


This. Remember to set the ocn channel on auto-join.

Was so embarrassing to lose to yks tho


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> This. Remember to set the ocn channel on auto-join.
> Was so embarrassing to lose to yks tho


i know, how'd you lose to me? i'm so bad.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> This. Remember to set the ocn channel on auto-join.
> Was so embarrassing to lose to yks tho


I want to soooooooooooo bad...

You know, us four (yks, snelan, hometownhero, and myself) are all in the same skill range. It would make for a sweet 1v1 customs night.


----------



## yks

But you guys play OP Zerg, so you're like +100 skill points compared to us


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> But you guys play OP Zerg, so you're like +100 skill points compared to us


True story right here.


----------



## Anti!!

Wow. Just wow. I have never used OP as an excuse. Lol even when terran was the end all be all.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Wow. Just wow. I have never used OP as an excuse. Lol even when terran was the end all be all.










. In other news, we need to get KoTHs up and running again. Those were a lot of fun.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> That's one of my pet peeves with SC2. The High X-league / Low Y-League, saying.
> In BW, you're D,C,B,A with -/+ between them. And that's what you are, and that's what you say. I'm an A+ Zerg, I'm a D- Terran, I'm a C- Protoss, etc. You are what you are, without trying to be more than it says. If I'm a C+ Zerg, I'll look and advertise in chat that I'm C+ looking to play C-/B+ players on map-Z. And you'd definitely get some good even games.
> While I agree it's different in SC2, cause the ladder system is **** and made to encourage casuals/everybody, it's just something I've never been able to get over.
> Like *why is MMR hidden*? The difference between someone who's "_Rank 1_" Masters in their division (because of useless points) and someone with an actual high MMR is *sooooo* astronomical.
> I've been "Rank#1" in my Masters division and it didn't mean anything other than I had a lot of points. But then I play some guy who's "Rank#55" Masters in a Custom-Game, and he beats me sooooo easily. Come to find his hidden-MMR is amongst the upper-tier of players, playing against pros.
> How am I suppose to find other similar Masters players around my level *if the MMR is hidden*, am I suppose to ladder all day?? Ladder doesn't fix everything. But it's the only way to face players your level.
> _What if I need to do *custom games* against a specific race to practice a specific build_? The closest thing I can do is look if he has a Masters-Icon, and PRAY his MMR is similar to mine. So then it's *1/3 (33.33%)* chance of getting good practice. Either he's super low-MMR and I win easily or he's super high-mmr and I lose easily. Or 33.33% he's around the same and it's really good practice. Even though we're both "Masters"
> Basically, Rank and Points mean nothing. The only thing that matters is MMR (which we can't see). I'd rather play a "Rank#90" Masters with similar/higher MMR, than play some "Rank#1" Masters whose MMR is so low, it's as if he's Diamond.
> Basically, I just need MMR to be shown, so I know what I'm getting into when I play custom-games because the disparity within a SINGLE league is TOO high.


No one cares about rank numbers. Sc2ranks.com keep tracks of ranks. And your point = MMR I think which are comparable cross division I think. I dont really remember or care at all about any of that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> I feel bad for people who restrict themselves in the confines of "I hate cheese/cheesers"
> I read this article a long time ago, and am happy to see that recently, *day9* and *artosis*, have been spreading this article around as well // telling people to buy his book.
> http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
> I really hope it changes peoples outlook on "cheap-ness"/"cheese," because it really does impose a mental block on a players growth. The author was the balance/designer for Street Fighter 2 HD Remix.


No. Just No.

There is a reason why those same people and everyone recommend a macro game to learn and not to go cheese. Cheesing is almost as bad as playing random. If someone is below diamond, let alone masters, they are not going to benefit from playing cheese games as their predominant form of learning. If you are not diamond you should be focusing on mechanics and macro and very basic strategy and unit counters because you need those skill the most. You see more of the game and learn more and faster by playing standard. People who cheese often hit walls or remain bad at the game even if they do get masters or higher, and Im sure a lot of these people turn to cheating to win after cheesing doesnt work which is why we have so many map hackers.

There are more than enough cheesers trying to get ez wins on ladder already and these people make the ladder a worse place. A lot of times you don't learn anything from the cheese, except small things within the cheese and maybe micro. Its easier to refine some short game cheese build than it is to play a macro game. Macro games improve everything and since you are playing best of one on ladder that is full of no skill cheesers you can't cut corners to macro.

If you cheese all the time you play a narrow vane of the game. If you play macro you are going to get half macro games and half defending cheese and learn everything.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . In other news, we need to get KoTHs up and running again. Those were a lot of fun.


Talk about crapping on somebody's parade. Where is the love bro?

Don't like the truth?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> No one cares about rank numbers. Sc2ranks.com keep tracks of ranks. And your point = MMR I think which are comparable cross division I think. I dont really remember or care at all about any of that.


That's the point I'm trying to make. The current "ranking" system is useless and irrelevant compared to the old system.

And your MMR is not equal to your points. That is incorrect.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> No. Just No.
> There is a reason why those same people and everyone recommend a macro game to learn and not to go cheese. Cheesing is almost as bad as playing random. If someone is below diamond, let alone masters, they are not going to benefit from playing cheese games as their predominant form of learning. If you are not diamond you should be focusing on mechanics and macro and very basic strategy and unit counters because you need those skill the most. You see more of the game and learn more and faster by playing standard. People who cheese often hit walls or remain bad at the game even if they do get masters or higher, and Im sure a lot of these people turn to cheating to win after cheesing doesnt work which is why we have so many map hackers.
> There are more than enough cheesers trying to get ez wins on ladder already and these people make the ladder a worse place. A lot of times you don't learn anything from the cheese, except small things within the cheese and maybe micro. Its easier to refine some short game cheese build than it is to play a macro game. Macro games improve everything and since you are playing best of one on ladder that is full of no skill cheesers you can't cut corners to macro.
> If you cheese all the time you play a narrow vane of the game. If you play macro you are going to get half macro games and half defending cheese and learn everything.


I'm not saying to cheese every game. I'm saying to understand cheese is part of the game and it doesn't make the ladder a "worse place" as you say. If you read the post/the article, you would see it's more about how to grow yourself mentally. Because a lot of people impose these made-up-mental-rules on themselves/others, when really there are no rules in Starcraft, the only objective is to win.

It saddens me to see that with the growth of *SC2 in the west* (compared to BW in the west), people are condemning wins because it doesn't fall under their predefined notion of "how to play." Boxer's BW career was "cheesy" as fu*ck, he bunker rushed YellOw 3 times in a row in a best-of-5 in the semis, for christ-sake. Because you do whatever it takes to win and that's the mentality the Koreans have. He's the cheesiest amongst the bonjwas, but he's still the original bonjwa and still revered as one of the greatest of all time, even though he couldn't macro to save his life.

You can play how you want to play. Macro to your hearts content, if you wish. I am simply saying people shouldn't limit themselves with how they _think_ games should be played, and instead, focus on whatever it takes to *win*.

Again, the post wasn't about how you should learn to play the game because I agree: people should start off learning to macro first. The post and article was about how to grow yourself mentally and to open your eyes to how the game really is.

I've never been to a tournament where there was a prize for the winner and another prize for the player who macro'd the best/kept his money the lowest/took more expansions. There is only a prize for the winner.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I want to soooooooooooo bad...
> You know, us four (yks, snelan, hometownhero, and myself) are all in the same skill range. It would make for a sweet 1v1 customs night.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> But you guys play OP Zerg, so you're like +100 skill points compared to us


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Wow. Just wow. I have never used OP as an excuse. Lol even when terran was the end all be all.


I stand by what I said: OP Zerg! OP Zerg! ;]

Then again, I do have a winning record against all of you guys. But Zergs still OP.

=]


----------



## snelan

This is my theory why people think Zerg is OP.

Zerg is hard to play, you have to do everything right. Nothing exists for Zerg like a 4 gate, warp ins, or drop ships.

The people that play Zerg the exact right way and don't make mistakes win all the time, but this is VERY hard to do. It is these people that you see winning. However, I bet you over 50% of the Zerg players suck. We don't see these people, only the people that win a bunch as Zerg. Because of this, we think all Zergs win all the time, because we are not seeing the other half.

Basically, Zerg is better if you can play it right. However, the skill it takes to completely master Zerg and deal with all the crap Terran and Protoss throw at you is much higher than mastering Protoss or Terran, thus it evens out. Also, I feel like Terrans and Toss' just do the same crap all the time, it's easy to spot and defend. Helions? Yawn. 2 base all in? The usual...


----------



## yks

You can pretty much say that about any race.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> You can pretty much say that about any race.


I just feel like it's detrimental to the game to keep blaming races for being OP. Are we Grandmaster? No. Can we blame a race for our loss? No.

Granted I did quit this game after realizing I wasn't having fun...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> This is my theory why people think Zerg is OP.
> Zerg is hard to play, you have to do everything right. Nothing exists for Zerg like a 4 gate, warp ins, or drop ships...


Yeah zerg has no 6-8 pool that can hit the base before a zealot gets out if you chrono









Typical zerg who is OP and wants to think they're underpowered unless they play perfectly, when really you don' t play perfectly your race is OP

Mutas .....
Infestors...........
BROODS (even the pros call them GGLords)


----------



## snelan

This is why I quit SC2, too much complaining and crying.

How can a game be fun if all people ever do is argue over it. All I said was people should stop blaming race imbalances and enjoy the game.


----------



## yks

No, snelan is correct. Words like OP is cancerous. And should never be used. Wise words of TLO.

I was just teasing Anti/Nydus


----------



## CravinR1

Zerg players are homosexual

.............


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> No, snelan is correct. Words like OP is cancerous. And should never be used. Wise words of TLO.
> I was just teasing Anti/Nydus


Haha oh I know, I just don't want people getting ideas









I may start playing random though once HOTS comes out, that might make it more enjoyable.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Talk about crapping on somebody's parade. Where is the love bro?
> Don't like the truth?


Lol, just messing with you. I've actually been having a harder time with toss then zerg lately.

By the way, the TL Power Rankings for Summer Arena just got posted. It's interesting Taeja is #1 after an early exit from IEM and TSL4, even though he has been wrecking lately. Dunno if I'd have MKP at #2 either.


----------



## CravinR1

Love making gold zerg players rage:

PvZ gold.zip 92k .zip file


----------



## General123

Thought I would share this with you guys real quick.
HT on 4.8 ghz -

Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
4695, 44180, 22, 204, 106.270

HT off 4.8ghz -
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
4695, 44180, 24, 206, 112.191

I always thought sc2 loved those extra threads ? Interesting..
I used unit Pre loader(its a custom game that loads everything at once, it was the only thing I could think of that is solid and the same every time for this game







)


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> That's one of my pet peeves with SC2. The High X-league / Low Y-League, saying.
> In BW, you're D,C,B,A with -/+ between them. And that's what you are, and that's what you say. I'm an A+ Zerg, I'm a D- Terran, I'm a C- Protoss, etc. You are what you are, without trying to be more than it says. If I'm a C+ Zerg, I'll look and advertise in chat that I'm C+ looking to play C-/B+ players on map-Z. And you'd definitely get some good even games.
> While I agree it's different in SC2, cause the ladder system is **** and made to encourage casuals/everybody, it's just something I've never been able to get over.
> Like *why is MMR hidden*? The difference between someone who's "_Rank 1_" Masters in their division (because of useless points) and someone with an actual high MMR is *sooooo* astronomical.
> I've been "Rank#1" in my Masters division and it didn't mean anything other than I had a lot of points. But then I play some guy who's "Rank#55" Masters in a Custom-Game, and he beats me sooooo easily. Come to find his hidden-MMR is amongst the upper-tier of players, playing against pros.
> How am I suppose to find other similar Masters players around my level *if the MMR is hidden*, am I suppose to ladder all day?? Ladder doesn't fix everything. But it's the only way to face players your level.
> _What if I need to do *custom games* against a specific race to practice a specific build_? The closest thing I can do is look if he has a Masters-Icon, and PRAY his MMR is similar to mine. So then it's *1/3 (33.33%)* chance of getting good practice. Either he's super low-MMR and I win easily or he's super high-mmr and I lose easily. Or 33.33% he's around the same and it's really good practice. Even though we're both "Masters"
> Basically, Rank and Points mean nothing. The only thing that matters is MMR (which we can't see). I'd rather play a "Rank#90" Masters with similar/higher MMR, than play some "Rank#1" Masters whose MMR is so low, it's as if he's Diamond.
> Basically, I just need MMR to be shown, so I know what I'm getting into when I play custom-games because the disparity within a SINGLE league is TOO high.


You could find this of help:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561


----------



## CravinR1

TomsHardware did a test of sC2 that basically says 2 cores running as fast as possible is what SC2 likes

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/blizzard-entertainment-starcraft-ii-benchmark,2611-9.html


----------



## 13321G4

Meh. Tested in beta. Also no details on what map/how many units/what spells/how many actions. Doesn't sound like a solid test.

Also, dt's are cool!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You could find this of help:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561




But sadly, it doesn't help me while in game on the fly.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Lol, just messing with you. I've actually been having a harder time with toss then zerg lately.
> By the way, the TL Power Rankings for Summer Arena just got posted. It's interesting Taeja is #1 after an early exit from IEM and TSL4, even though he has been wrecking lately. Dunno if I'd have MKP at #2 either.


Ohes, i took you seriously. Lol. You cant really tell emotion in text.


----------



## Anti!!

First game back after 3 weeks









http://drop.sc/243555


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> First game back after 3 weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/243555


FOR THE LUB OF JEBUS, hotkey your units!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> FOR THE LUB OF JEBUS, hotkey your units!


Psshhhh, thats for you pros.









What did you think overall? Pretty bad eh?


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Psshhhh, thats for you pros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think overall? Pretty bad eh?


needs more consistent droning. you go from like 30 to 50 to 90 with the time gaps in between being pretty large.

and overlord spread. you had like all your overlords @ ur 3rd.

i just watched it on 8x and stopped 20mins in cause MLG, so i couldn't detail it for you. but those were the glaringly obvious ones.

hotkey your units!! consistent droning/larva spending!! overlord spread!!

so pretty much, pretty bad.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> needs more consistent droning. you go from like 30 to 50 to 90 with the time gaps in between being pretty large.
> and overlord spread. you had like all your overlords @ ur 3rd.
> i just watched it on 8x and stopped 20mins in cause MLG, so i couldn't detail it for you. but those were the glaringly obvious ones.
> hotkey your units!! consistent droning/larva spending!! overlord spread!!
> so pretty much, pretty bad.


Did you miss the pheonix killing my overlords? Lol


----------



## yks

yeah, i saw that. but he stopped being active with his phoenix after a bit.

i mean, you see active phoenix and you reacted with spores, that's good. but what happens when the phoenix became inactive, how do you react?

reaction is more than just responding to what he's doing. it's also about what he's not doing. and in this case it was when he went inactive with his phoenix.

therefore, you react to his inactivity-ness with returning to OL spreading.

if not, then his phoenix benefited him the entire game. even when he's not using them. so either force him to use them and tax his APM, or regain an advantage with OL spreading. either way, it's a win-win for you.

naah meen, bro?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Psshhhh, thats for you pros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think overall? Pretty bad eh?


Your decisions were good like denying the third with roach ling, getting spores against phoenix, splitting armies late game etc. but your macro was poor. You should aim to have 60+ drones at 8:00 and you had less then 50. The rest is less relevant. Normally you shouldn't be able to win with less then 55 drones at 8:00 in 3 hatch vs FFE scenario.

I think your 3rd and 4th gas were late and I don't remember if you took macro hatch around 8-9 minutes. Also you teched pretty slow, you really should have infestors and hive by 20 minutes at the latest, actually more like 15-16.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Your decisions were good like denying the third with roach ling, getting spores against phoenix, splitting armies late game etc. but your macro was poor. You should aim to have 60+ drones at 8:00 and you had less then 50. The rest is less relevant. Normally you shouldn't be able to win with less then 55 drones at 8:00 in 3 hatch vs FFE scenario.
> I think your 3rd and 4th gas were late and I don't remember if you took macro hatch around 8-9 minutes. Also you teched pretty slow, you really should have infestors and hive by 20 minutes at the latest, actually more like 15-16.


Yea, my macro waz ballz. I just cant play enough to stay brushed up. Tech is slow for me too like you said. I guess what gets me is worrying that im being to greedy with drones and tech, and then get rolled by a 2 base all in, or even just a 2 base timing. Hmmm. What should i do different?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> yeah, i saw that. but he stopped being active with his phoenix after a bit.
> i mean, you see active phoenix and you reacted with spores, that's good. but what happens when the phoenix became inactive, how do you react?
> reaction is more than just responding to what he's doing. it's also about what he's not doing. and in this case it was when he went inactive with his phoenix.
> therefore, you react to his inactivity-ness with returning to OL spreading.
> if not, then his phoenix benefited him the entire game. even when he's not using them. so either force him to use them and tax his APM, or regain an advantage with OL spreading. either way, it's a win-win for you.
> naah meen, bro?


makes absolute sense. Great point. thank you.


----------



## yks

And don't forget, anti. HOTKEY YOUR UNITSSSSSSSSSSSXXXXXZZZZZD


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> And don't forget, anti. HOTKEY YOUR UNITSSSSSSSSSSSXXXXXZZZZZD


or just train yourself to have like 10 million apm and just micro each unit individually


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea, my macro waz ballz. I just cant play enough to stay brushed up. Tech is slow for me too like you said. I guess what gets me is worrying that im being to greedy with drones and tech, and then get rolled by a 2 base all in, or even just a 2 base timing. Hmmm. What should i do different?


Just work on the first 8 minutes of the game. The thing is that you're not cutting drones to get more or faster units. You're just cutting them. Then you get less units at similar or later timing because of lower econ. So in the end, if anything, you're more vulnerable to 2 base all-ins.


----------



## Anti!!

Hmmmm. Amazing. Lol given its a two base of some type of course.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Wow, not sure if I should even post here. I play the campaign. >_> Tried the online thing but the first guy I was up against was a smurf and killed me within 6 minutes.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Smurfs are actually quite rare, and the matchmaking system is pretty good about getting you to a 50% winrate. It'll give you harder opponents if you're on a winning streak and easier opponents if you're losing a lot. Before it can do that though, it has to figure out where you are now.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Wow, not sure if I should even post here. I play the campaign. >_> Tried the online thing but the first guy I was up against was a smurf and killed me within 6 minutes.


Yeah, online play is where it is at. Just dont get concerned with what league you are in. Just play for fun. You will naturally get better.

Crap, snelan was bronze when he joined my clan and raged and quit at rank 1 diamond. Just under 3 or 4 months too. ( not that our clan had anything to do with it.)


----------



## burwij

Unless you've got previous RTS experience you're probably going to lose the large majority of your first 10-15 games - get past that fact and you'll be good to go. The way the matchmaking system is set up, you'll never win more than 50-55% of your games anyway unless you really start improving or overachieving. Focus more on improving rather than on always winning and you'll feel like you're making strides.

I started playing SC2 in the middle of the beta (March/April 2010) and spent the majority of the time in Bronze/Silver. My only previous experience was with the SC/BW and WC2/WC3 campaigns years earlier. By the time the game was released in July, I placed Platinum and got promoted to Diamond about a month later.

Day9's Newbie Tuesday videos are a good place to start.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Wow, not sure if I should even post here. I play the campaign. >_> Tried the online thing but the first guy I was up against was a smurf and killed me within 6 minutes.


I wouldn't worry about this. I'm a total SC2 noob, as I just started playing it about 2 months ago with no previous RTS experience. I'm currently in Bronze league and have so far only really played Terran, primarily in 1v1. I think I played around 10 online games until I won for the first time. After that, I did get the 3 consecutive wins achievement though.









Lately, I've been doing pretty well in TvT and TvZ matchups but absolutely bomb in TvP. I feel like unless I succeed in rushing the opponent, I always end up getting destroyed by Dark Templars and/or Void Rays. I'd love to hear what builds other Terran players like to use against Protoss.

If any other new players are looking for someone to play with in MP let me know.


----------



## Yukss

i finally see an star on my icon XD (almost NO protoss in the top 25)


----------



## CravinR1

Its because Protoss is OP they're all in GM

........ either that or Toss is currently the weakest race by far


----------



## Twistacles

Someone motivate me to play again T_T

Tired of going 3cc every game TvZ and still being behind...
Losing to amoving protoss...

TvT is only MU I still enjoy but no one plays Terran :/ Worst part was that I was on the brink of high masters a few weeks ago and then lost a bunch of games and quit

Edit: terran is by far the weakest. Protoss is ez


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Someone motivate me to play again T_T
> Tired of going 3cc every game TvZ and still being behind...
> Losing to amoving protoss...
> TvT is only MU I still enjoy but no one plays Terran :/ Worst part was that I was on the brink of high masters a few weeks ago and then lost a bunch of games and quit
> Edit: terran is by far the weakest. Protoss is ez


what ????? do you mean weakest raze ? i dont think so... im So tired of slowmarauders in early game, sometimes i dont have enough sentries to stop them.. my worst match ever is PvZ, as sooon i get my third base they crush me, so i all i have to do is the basic two bases all in..


----------



## Anti!!

With all due respect high masters has a much better understanding of what the balance is like. Terran is the weakest imo.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Someone motivate me to play again T_T
> Tired of going 3cc every game TvZ and still being behind...
> Losing to amoving protoss...
> TvT is only MU I still enjoy but no one plays Terran :/ Worst part was that I was on the brink of high masters a few weeks ago and then lost a bunch of games and quit
> Edit: terran is by far the weakest. Protoss is ez


Yeah, terran is possibly the hardest race to play but definetely not the weakest. Actually there is no weak race since the game is well balanced. Play around with other strats. In TvP first 12 minutes of the game is yours. If you look at korean terrans, they can crush almost any foreing protoss with a standard 2 base 5 rax. It's all about macro, micro and decision making which you can always improve. Protoss can a-move only if you let them to. TvZ there are other builds then 3 CC which is situational. Reactor hellions into banshees seems to be a standard at the moment and it really depends on the player skill to decide the outcome of the game. There are also fun builds like 2 port banshees into mech or banshee/thor/marine, or fast thors with SCVs which work even at GM level. Have a look at recen replays like IEM at players like Mvp, Bomber and PuMa and keep playing. There is no imbalance. It's all about practice.


----------



## yks

In Blinker we trust.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> In Blinker we trust.


lol your nickname is similiar to mine XD

yukss #987


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> With all due respect high masters has a much better understanding of what the balance is like. Terran is the weakest imo.


Terran's not weakest, it's just harder to learn the mechanics. Perfect macro with Z is easiest, just don't miss any injects, P is a little harder, but not being able to queue units on gateways helps. With T, it's quite hard to keep exactly one unit in every production queue at all times.

Similarly with micro, banelings are easier to use than marines, because they don't benefit as much from micro as marines do.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> lol your nickname is similiar to mine XD
> yukss #987


we should battle it outttt

my code is in my sig.

go easy on me though. i suck.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> we should battle it outttt
> my code is in my sig.
> go easy on me though. i suck.


Dont let this troll fool you!!!!


----------



## geoxile

Hey, for anyone who plays Space Zombies custom mode, do you have any problems with Ultimate mode? Whenever I play Ultimate difficulty my entire PC crashes. The video out seems to cut usually but sometimes the sound goes out too and once I even had a "green screen of death" on my main monitor and a teal screen on my 2ndary monitor. I thought the GPU might have been overheating but I'm not sure, I'm still trying to figure it out.

The thing is, it's ONLY in Space Zombies. I've never had this problem in any other game, not even vanilla SC2 or other custom games


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Dont let this troll fool you!!!!


I'm no troll!


----------



## HometownHero

I got into HoTS Beta yesterday. Let me know if anyone has questions.

What I hate so far, is that workers automatically harvest for you at the start of a game, say goodbye to splitting.
Edit: You can turn this off in the options. Also, warhounds


----------



## Anti!!

Auto mine? What the crap blizzard!? Just have it play for us while we are blind folded too...


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah, terran is possibly the hardest race to play but definetely not the weakest. Actually there is no weak race since the game is well balanced. Play around with other strats. In TvP first 12 minutes of the game is yours. If you look at korean terrans, they can crush almost any foreing protoss with a standard 2 base 5 rax. It's all about macro, micro and decision making which you can always improve. Protoss can a-move only if you let them to. TvZ there are other builds then 3 CC which is situational. Reactor hellions into banshees seems to be a standard at the moment and it really depends on the player skill to decide the outcome of the game. There are also fun builds like 2 port banshees into mech or banshee/thor/marine, or fast thors with SCVs which work even at GM level. Have a look at recen replays like IEM at players like Mvp, Bomber and PuMa and keep playing. There is no imbalance. It's all about practice.


I do better with Terran than any other group. Zerg is just... O-o special... Protoss are trying to be the children of a Star Wars-Predator tribe.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Auto mine? What the crap blizzard!? Just have it play for us while we are blind folded too...


There is also a select all army units button, similar to the idle worker button. Its definitely making the online portion easier and thus, more appealing to casual gamers.


----------



## 13321G4

Is it a select all army or select Idle army button?

I believe HOTS is broken.

(All from P POV)

Widowmines, only thing that detects these bad boys are observers and they get killed by the mines.
Tempest. Useless. Ling counter attack=GEEGEEE. Also speed hydralisks.
Oracle. Useless. Oh no I can block you from mining. T should realise that I invested too much In this gas heavy unit that can't attack leaving me completely vulnerable.

Also zwarm hosts so strong.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Is it a select all army or select Idle army button?
> I believe HOTS is broken.
> (All from P POV)
> Widowmines, only thing that detects these bad boys are observers and they get killed by the mines.
> Tempest. Useless. Ling counter attack=GEEGEEE. Also speed hydralisks.
> Oracle. Useless. Oh no I can block you from mining. T should realise that I invested too much In this gas heavy unit that can't attack leaving me completely vulnerable.
> Also zwarm hosts so strong.


But that's if you focus all your resources on one or two things.







You can use the oracle on a secondary base or something, I dunno. I mean, is that gonna be in MP or just campaign based like the FIREBAT. That alone made me stop playing. >_> Firebats were awesome. They were one of the reasons why I could actually manage against the Protoss and Zerg.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Is it a select all army or select Idle army button?
> I believe HOTS is broken.
> (All from P POV)
> Widowmines, only thing that detects these bad boys are observers and they get killed by the mines.
> Tempest. Useless. Ling counter attack=GEEGEEE. Also speed hydralisks.
> Oracle. Useless. Oh no I can block you from mining. T should realise that I invested too much In this gas heavy unit that can't attack leaving me completely vulnerable.
> Also zwarm hosts so strong.


It is select ALL army units. Also, I agree that the swarm host is ridiculously strong, literally siege tanks on steroids. Also, I've played a few matches where Toss have used the oracle effectively. You wont know how annoying the mineral block spell is until you actually experience it on ladder. The unit is really weak though, 4 shots from a viking to kill it I believe.


----------



## TranquilTempest

How did you get a beta key?


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> How did you get a beta key?


Opted in for the beta awhile ago via Blizzard's website. I read somewhere Blizzard also took into account playtime, and I have a lot of that.


----------



## CravinR1

Blizzard states playtime and system specs are 2 of the main things they use to determine beta invites


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Ladder Tier Removal
> Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it difficult to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
> With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4. The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
> After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
> We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
> Good luck, have fun!


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012

Few pages back, I was complaining about the lack of transparency. Now they're fixing it! AWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHH


----------



## 13321G4

Just played a PvR(T) and built 105 probes.

My army was so small







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Ladder Tier Removal
> Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it difficult to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
> With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4. The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
> After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
> We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
> Good luck, have fun!
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012
> 
> Few pages back, I was complaining about the lack of transparency. Now they're fixing it! AWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHH
Click to expand...

Very interesting. This will force a complete revamp of the point system. Very cool though!

High plat will actually mean something then!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Just played a PvR(T) and built 105 probes.
> My army was so small
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting. This will force a complete revamp of the point system. Very cool though!
> High plat will actually mean something then!


Not really, the points will work the same, the difference is that all divisions of each league will have the same offset, so you can directly compare points between players in different divisions. Right now there are several different tiers of divisions within each of the leagues(except master and gm), so the only way to know you're close to promotion is if you start hitting mostly higher league players on ladder.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012
> Few pages back, I was complaining about the lack of transparency. Now they're fixing it! AWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHH


Alllll Hailllllll YKS!!


----------



## CravinR1

Yeah he was the only person to ever complain about the hidden mmr


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Just played a PvR(T) and built 105 probes.
> My army was so small
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting. This will force a complete revamp of the point system. Very cool though!
> High plat will actually mean something then!
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, the points will work the same, the difference is that all divisions of each league will have the same offset, so you can directly compare points between players in different divisions. Right now there are several different tiers of divisions within each of the leagues(*except master* and gm), so the only way to know you're close to promotion is if you start hitting mostly higher league players on ladder.
Click to expand...

Also in master IIRC, if tiers weren't in masters than this won't help YKS.

The point system can't stay the same. Currently just playing lots of games will put you high in your division, because winning always gives more points than losing (with the exception of the 1.5 bugs). The way points are awarded will have to be changed as to filter the good players from the frequent players.


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Alllll Hailllllll YKS!!


They don't call me the KING for nothing.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Also in master IIRC, if tiers weren't in masters than this won't help YKS.
> The point system can't stay the same. *Currently just playing lots of games will put you high in your division, because winning always gives more points than losing* (with the exception of the 1.5 bugs). The way points are awarded will have to be changed as to filter the good players from the frequent players.


Playing lots of games will put you high in your division, but it's not because winning gives more points than losing. After you spend all your bonus pool and get your points where your MMR says they should be, you'll get the same number of points from winning as you lose from defeat. The reason mass games will get you high in the division is because most people only play a handful of games each season, and this will not change with the new system.


----------



## Anti!!

I thought this was an entertaining game. Rank six diamond in my 2v2 random right now. Just started playing it. Kinda starting to brush up some. yay me.

http://drop.sc/249004

Worth the watch i guess.


----------



## connectwise

GSL on Gom! ATM it's king of terran MVP vs MMA.


----------



## OverClocker55

I'm getting starcraft on mac <3


----------



## Anti!!

Are they still planning on not supporting mac?


----------



## Tech-Boy

Hey guys! Fairly new SC player here. My first rts was supreme commander so new to rts somewhat too. Just now starting to get serious about laddering.

I was wondering if anyone here with some free time is willing to maybe help me improve my game some, i'm looking for a diamond/high plat player i can play 1v1's with, mainly just looking for someone significantly better than me who can tell me what I did wrong each match and what I need to improve on.

I'm silver playin zerg. My worst matchup is usually ZvT. Really would like to step up my game to gold atleast and I don't think I am too far off from that (hopefully). Thanks in advance and hope this is a ok place to ask for help like this


----------



## OverClocker55

What is silver,gold,diamond. I have tons of free time and almost every day I'm on SC2 for 4,5 hours.


----------



## 13321G4

Silver, gold, diamond are leagues. It's blizzard way of matching people up with people their own level.

I would love to help both of you, but guessing from the time you two posted you aren't playing on the EU server T,T

Basic beginners help (from the OP):
Quote:


> Beginner and not-so-beginner resources:
> 
> Day9 Daily Youtube Channel (Newbie Tuesdays and analysis of pro replays, for all levels)
> HDStarcraft's Youtube Channel (some guides, commentaries of pro replays)
> Husky's Youtube Channel (some guides, commentaries of pro replays)
> PsyStarcraft's Youtube Channel (commentaries of pro replays and his own games, campaign walkthrough on Brutal)
> Force SC2 Strategy's Youtube channel (beginner, guides to builds and strategies)
> Detailed Units DPS chart
> Liquipedia (SC2 Wiki)
> Starcraft Wikia (SC2 Wiki)
> Ultimate SC2 resources thread on TL (newbies click here)


Personally I would recommend you find a (macro) build for each match up (against Terran Zerg and Protoss) that you think is fun, can be anything, as long as it's not all in and you enjoy it, you can use that build to practice your mechanics.
Also, build drones and overlords, probes and pylons, scv's and supply depots, and never, ever, get supply blocked. Some units might be good too


----------



## OkanG

Fairly new Starcraft 2 player here too. Not exactly new, I've played VERY little long time ago, so I know very little. I just love playing zerg, and I've advanced to 22nd in the bronze from 91 in two days. I think I have something like a win ratio 70-80% win ratio since I started again. I looooove love love (!!) watching Day9's videos and I sometimes watch his Newbie Tuesday videos several hours daily.

I have a question. How much of a difference is there between bronze, silver and gold league skill wise? Because I'm thinking that with a high win ratio equal to mine, I might be able to pull a mid-silver before actually starting to even out my win/loss ratio.

Oh, and Liquidpedia is awesome for gathering knowledge too. I just seem to remember the things Day9 is saying more, because he makes his videos funny and interesting the whole time. Oh yeah, and he actually talks about fundamental and essential things, which is very nice for me. One of my friends are top Masters league, so I can ask him questions, but I just don't want to bother him with too basic and nooby stuff, which is where Day9's videos work out really good for me.


----------



## FedeVi

From my experience in EU ladder there is a significant difference between bronze and silver. I was placed in silver and the only bronze who beated me at the time were top 8.
Mid silver and mid gold don't have that much of a difference, in fact when i was climbing the silver league i played and won many games against top 25 gold player while i was still losing to mid silver guys.
You will most likely get a promotion when your win rate against silver players climb above 50%.


----------



## superbarnie

Yay i just got promoted to diamond!


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedeVi*
> 
> From my experience in EU ladder there is a significant difference between bronze and silver. I was placed in silver and the only bronze who beated me at the time were top 8.
> Mid silver and mid gold don't have that much of a difference, in fact when i was climbing the silver league i played and won many games against top 25 gold player while i was still losing to mid silver guys.
> You will most likely get a promotion when your win rate against silver players climb above 50%.


I'm feeling there will be a long time for that to happen









How long does it normally take to get promoted to silver? Or how many games have you played to get where you are now?


----------



## NewHighScore

Anyone here into coaching? I flippin suck at 1v1's. I can't get past plat.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Yay i just got promoted to diamond!


Congrats!


----------



## FedeVi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I'm feeling there will be a long time for that to happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long does it normally take to get promoted to silver? Or how many games have you played to get where you are now?


I was originally placed to silver, so i don't really know how many games you need to win to get a promotion. I was promoted to gold after ~40 wins at a win rate of something near 65-70%. You will know that promotion is near when the matchmaking put you almost only against top 8 bronze and silver players.
Now i finished the season in the top 8 gold, with no more than 60 wins total.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Yay i just got promoted to diamond!


Nice!


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Anyone here into coaching? I flippin suck at 1v1's. I can't get past plat.


same here, im plat toss, last season i got top 5, then a loss some game i fall to 13







and then in the placement match i beated a diamond and i got plat again..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I thought this was an entertaining game. Rank six diamond in my 2v2 random right now. Just started playing it. Kinda starting to brush up some. yay me.
> http://drop.sc/249004
> Worth the watch i guess.


Watch the ultra pwnage!


----------



## 13321G4

Carriers back in HOTS

















!!!!
D

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5349034941?page=2#23
and
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5349034941?page=2#29


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Personally I would recommend you find a (macro) build for each match up (against Terran Zerg and Protoss) that you think is fun, can be anything, as long as it's not all in and you enjoy it, you can use that build to practice your mechanics.
> Also, build drones and overlords, probes and pylons, scv's and supply depots, and never, ever, get supply blocked. Some units might be good too


I totally agree with this. Too many people fall into the trap of just 7rr (7 Roach Rushing), 4 Gating, etc. Then they figure they will transition to macro once they get that build down. In reality, they have no macro skill and are too set on their other build to do anything useful.

I tried that at first, and was OK, then when I wanted to 15h 15p, I totally sucked. So I just did 15h 16p vs T, 15h 15p vs P, and 15h 17p, 15h 14p, or 14g 14p vs Zerg depending on the situation. Ended up rank 1 diamond in a months after that







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> I totally agree with this. Too many people fall into the trap of just 7rr (7 Roach Rushing), 4 Gating, etc. Then they figure they will transition to macro once they get that build down. In reality, they have no macro skill and are too set on their other build to do anything useful.
> I tried that at first, and was OK, then when I wanted to 15h 15p, I totally sucked. So I just did 15h 16p vs T, 15h 15p vs P, and 15h 17p, 15h 14p, or 14g 14p vs Zerg depending on the situation. Ended up rank 1 diamond in a months after that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Who reached down to help a bro in bronze league?


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Who reached down to help a bro in bronze league?


Hehe, ok you may have taught me about some things...

How to build a base

How to do a build order

How to not get roflstomped










I remember when I played that silver league guy in a custom, and was surprised at his skill level







There is actually a big difference between Bronze and Silver, but when you're in a higher league like high plat/diamond/master you don't see it as much.


----------



## HometownHero

Not a big deal.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> same here, im plat toss, last season i got top 5, then a loss some game i fall to 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and then in the placement match i beated a diamond and i got plat again..


Maybe we should practice together


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Not a big deal.


Lol, just a X away. lol


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> I remember when I played that silver league guy in a custom, and was surprised at his skill level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is actually a big difference between Bronze and Silver, but when you're in a higher league like high plat/diamond/master you don't see it as much.


There are also big skill differences within Masters and GM. I'd say the difference between low master and high master is bigger than the difference between gold and diamond.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol, just a X away. lol


Narcotic is my HoTS name







. I'm pretty sure its a bug, but I am in GM for HoTS after the last patch.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> There are also big skill differences within Masters and GM. I'd say the difference between low master and high master is bigger than the difference between gold and diamond.


Wow, that's actually pretty surprising!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Narcotic is my HoTS name
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm pretty sure its a bug, but I am in GM for HoTS after the last patch.


Who cares! frame it! haha. I noticed DayNine is like rank 87 GM too. haha!

And he also does things like mass widow mines. How people have fun, and be that good surprises me...


----------



## superbarnie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Anyone here into coaching? I flippin suck at 1v1's. I can't get past plat.


i'm low diamond level terran if you want to practice with me add me. ObeseSCV.748


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> There are also big skill differences within Masters and GM. I'd say the difference between low master and high master is bigger than the difference between gold and diamond.


I don't know. The skill difference within leagues seems to be bigger in the higher leagues but I wouldn't go that far. I can see a low master player beating a high master player with a lucky BO or cheese, but I can't see a gold player beating diamond no matter what.

Also, where is my beta key!?


----------



## NewHighScore

Yeaaaahh it's not hard to make top 200 when only a few hundred people are in HotS beta.


----------



## ronnin426850

Are you watching the European?


----------



## 13321G4

All I can think of with the WCS EU:


Spoiler: Spoiler: Racial distribution, 'Balance'...




Protoss is totally OP!
You can see the same thing with WCS NA.

Also I am so overly happy that Grubby is going to china


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> All I can think of with the WCS EU:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Spoiler: Racial distribution, 'Balance'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protoss is totally OP!
> You can see the same thing with WCS NA.
> Also I am so overly happy that Grubby is going to china


Protoss is OP? I was left with the solid impression that zerg is OP. And Terran is screwed. With relatively equal supply worth of armies, zerg ANNIHILATES terran. Tanks go down like marines, thors do pathetic damage...
Really marine cheese or banshee are the only valid strategies for terran right now. We saw how even mech is worthless against zerg.
And the toss bit the dust quite a few times too









EDIT: Perhaps you meant UP? Because if it was OP, it wouldn't get decimated past round 6.


----------



## 13321G4

Was actually being sarcastic ;-)


Spoiler: Warning: Rant!



IMO zerg is overpowered. Broodlords unlimited free spawning is broken, having corruptors morph to BL is broken (mechanically), mutalisks are broken (I played a PvZ where I got surprised by mutalisks (my mistake) (three bases) he moved in once, killed some probes, built lings, did a ridiculous cost-ineffective suicide mission on my third, got broodlords and killed me. Literally nothing I could do.) Infestors is broken, be it infested terrans or fungal. I think it's ridiculous to see a mother ship become immobile by something like fungal.

Terran has it's strengths. Mech is showing good succes in TvZ. I'm not an expert on terran but I think that T's are playing TvP bio fundamentally wrong (but extremely well because stim is good) with mass MMM. Protoss cannot fight MMM after a certain critical mass point. Zealots get shredded, stalkers get shredded, immortals can get shredded. Only thing P has going is sentries for a few good force fields (don't get me wrong, this can crush T). Protoss reacts to MMM by teching to splash. Because of limited options this is storm or colossi. T knows this so should also tech. Getting some ghosts is always good. P clumps to protect high value units, EMP and move in. Get vikings if needed, get more ghosts if needed. But keep the MM 'small'. In small numbers MMM is extremely cost effective which is why drops are so good.

Protoss is obviously also broken. Forcefields are ridiculous, (but needed defensively, wait, I'm a genius! Read below). Colossi are broken, huge damage output, lots of HP, yet 'easily' sniped.


*Forcefields.*
They are perfect early game for defence but the problems arrise when Protoss moves out and can separate huge chunks offensively. What if forcefields lose effectiveness when not used on a Psionic Matrix power field! Be it that they then become destructible, have a shorter cooldown, or something else. They will basically just suck when not close to a pylon!

(Currently imagining crazy WP placements to get that perfect forcefield off).

This change wouldn't have too much effect on low level players right? Only thing they need to learn is place a pylon near their ramp...

PS.
It's 2:45 AM so this could all be rubbish and written poorly but feedback is welcome!


----------



## CravinR1

I'm sure he was being sarcastic. Protoss is by far the weakest race over all. With mothership and vortexes and luck the only way to beat a late game zerg. And bioball can annihilate a late game toss easily.

Terran will be much better in HotS but zerg still are the most OP, with protoss getting crap units. Theirs ranged flyer does NO damage (5 stalkers can take down a building faster than 5 of the Tempest. Where as siege tank/broods destroy everything.

I think its time to switch races since blizzard wants zerg to dominate. And they have for over a year. Watch any tournament. Even when MVP won the EU tournament it was him and 3 zerg, or maybe 2 terran and 2 zerg with MC the only protoss and was put out by a zerg.


----------



## snelan

Aaaaaannndd this is why I quit SC2.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I don't know. The skill difference within leagues seems to be bigger in the higher leagues but I wouldn't go that far. I can see a low master player beating a high master player with a lucky BO or cheese, but I can't see a gold player beating diamond no matter what.
> Also, where is my beta key!?


A high master player will go at least 10-1 against a mid master player, a mid master player will easily go 10-1 against a low master player. The top end of master league(people that are just below GM) will never lose a serious game to a low masters player. To beat these players with cheese they have to take risks, and you have to be very good at the cheese you're trying to execute. If they know your skill level they'll play safe, autowin against any cheese, and make up any economic disadvantage with skill.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Was actually being sarcastic ;-)
> Warning, RANT:
> IMO zerg is overpowered. Broodlords unlimited free spawning is broken, having corruptors morph to BL is broken (mechanically), mutalisks are broken (I played a PvZ where I got surprised by mutalisks (my mistake) (three bases) he moved in once, killed some probes, built lings, did a ridiculous cost-ineffective suicide mission on my third, got broodlords and killed me. Literally nothing I could do.) Infestors is broken, be it infested terrans or fungal. I think it's ridiculous to see a mother ship become immobile by something like fungal.
> Terran has it's strengths. Mech is showing good succes in TvZ. I'm not an expert on terran but I think that T's are playing TvP bio fundamentally wrong (but extremely well because stim is good) with mass MMM. Protoss cannot fight MMM after a certain critical mass point. Zealots get shredded, stalkers get shredded, immortals can get shredded. Only thing P has going is sentries for a few good force fields (don't get me wrong, this can crush T). Protoss reacts to MMM by teching to splash. Because of limited options this is storm or colossi. T knows this so should also tech. Getting some ghosts is always good. P clumps to protect high value units, EMP and move in. Get vikings if needed, get more ghosts if needed. But keep the MM 'small'. In small numbers MMM is extremely cost effective which is why drops are so good.
> Protoss is obviously also broken. Forcefields are ridiculous, (but needed defensively, wait, I'm a genius! Read below). Colossi are broken, huge damage output, lots of HP, yet 'easily' sniped.
> *Forcefields.*
> It's perfect early game for defence but the problems arrise when Protoss moves out and can separate huge chunks offensively. What if forcefields lose effectiveness when not used on a Psionic Matrix power field! Be it that they then become destructible, have a shorter cooldown, or something else. They will basically just suck when not close to a pylon!
> (Currently imagining crazy WP placements to get that perfect forcefield off).
> This change wouldn't have too much effect on low level players right? Only thing they need to learn is place a pylon near their ramp...
> PS.
> It's 2:45 AM so this could all be rubbish and written poorly but feedback is welcome!


A nice post









I'm mid-high-bronze and it's torture for me that players that low don't invest in macro and force me to cheese or die.

edit: just having said that, I had a wonderful game vsZ where we got to mid-game







I even won!


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> A nice post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm mid-high-bronze and it's torture for me that players that low don't invest in macro and force me to cheese or die.
> edit: just having said that, I had a wonderful game vsZ where we got to mid-game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I even won!


'

Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> '
> Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).


I know what's being said here but all I can think about is a pair of gamers beating each other with blocks of cheese. XD


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> I know what's being said here but all I can think about is a pair of gamers beating each other with blocks of cheese. XD


Haha, I guess that's a solid theory.
Confession: I'm a bronze player too :blush: I just started, but I watch more videos than I actually play. So I don't play often, but with the knowledge I have, I rolfstomp whoever I play against for a couple of games, and go back to watching some videos. So I'd say that I might belong higher than I actually am right now, but I'm just not fighting for it







But in reality, there's actually not much cheesing going on. With terran, it's mostly some kind of mass MMM while they're turtling inside their natural, so there isn't anything else to do than expanding like hell. Some kind of mass gateway shenaningan is seen against protoss, and the majority of zerg players in bronze don't know what the hell they're doing







I'm a noob zerg player, but I love the different mechanics of zerg, compared to protoss and terran. Oh, and I practice my "Mental Checklist" a whole lot. If you don't know the concept, check out Day9's youtube channel. My theory is that I'll mostly do lots of reading and practicing things like mechanics and speed, and then play as much ladder as possible. I'll probably be stuck in bronze for some time, and then just win every single match up to a point where people are actually good









What are you guys´ thoughts on something like that? Should I just play lots and lots of ladder from the beginning? I've played quite many games now, and I just don't feel like I'm improving a whole lot, without trying to improve things like my "mental checklist" (don't even know if that's an official thing







)


----------



## CravinR1

Watching kids is good but you only get better by practicing and laddering. I improved immensely playing 1v1 vs 2v2. When i started i 2v2 almost exclusively but now i mainly 1v1 unless a friend is on.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> '
> Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).


lol what? Ok, try to take 3 expos in the first 10 min like a pro IN BRONZE and see if you won't get steamrolled by cheese.

And that nowhere near what I said. I said opponents in bronze are FORCING me to do cheese, because trying to develop economy vs them does not pay off. It's a huge gamble. A weaker cheese player might fail even if I sacrifice 10 marines for a command center, but NOT A CHANCE vs mass roaches or stalkers. As terran, invest in expos early on in bronze, and you're dead. Simple as that. You NEED cheese to climb up the ladder where the normal games are


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> lol what? Ok, try to take 3 expos in the first 10 min like a pro IN BRONZE and see if you won't get steamrolled by cheese.
> And that nowhere near what I said. I said opponents in bronze are FORCING me to do cheese, because trying to develop economy vs them does not pay off. It's a huge gamble. A weaker cheese player might fail even if I sacrifice 10 marines for a command center, but NOT A CHANCE vs mass roaches or stalkers. As terran, invest in expos early on in bronze, and you're dead. Simple as that. You NEED cheese to climb up the ladder where the normal games are


That just sounds crazy. The key to actually advancing to somewhere far far away, where people aren't cheesing, is to SURVIVE the cheese. You don't become a better player by cheesing back. Lets say that you just got 6 pooled by a bronze zerg-player. If you didn't see it coming, well.. That's bronze for you right there. If you took the time to scout him and see that he doesn't drone up AT ALL or build an extractor. All you see is 6 drones and a spawning pool. Guess what's going to be knocking on your door. Given that you survived that, no matter how you did (without cheese), you're going to be ahead of him economy-wise, if you're playing just remotely well and knowing when to drone and when to build up your army.

Take 3 expos in the first 10 minutes? Sure, if the opponent DOES NOT CHEESE. Again, you can't simply make up your mind 100% BEFORE even seeing what the opponent is building, and just go 3 expo in the first 10 minutes REGARDLESS of what the opponent is doing. Again, scout ahead and adjust to the opponent. If you're being forced to do a cheese, you're going with the wrong mindset. Surviving a cheese is far more effective, as people in higher leagues (although seldom) also uses cheesy techniques. Cheesing doesn't simply mean winning without any skill. Skill also doesn't solely mean winning late-game, because the opponent chose not to cheese your sorry a**. Your actual goal should be -yes I'm repeating this- SURVIVING the cheese, and not just go cheese in the next game in order to try to win that way.

I'm not even close to being pro, believe me lol. But I kind of hope someone with a higher skill level can confirm this, because cheesing just because the opponent does, isn't exactly a way to improve.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> That just sounds crazy. The key to actually advancing to somewhere far far away, where people aren't cheesing, is to SURVIVE the cheese. You don't become a better player by cheesing back. Lets say that you just got 6 pooled by a bronze zerg-player. If you didn't see it coming, well.. That's bronze for you right there. If you took the time to scout him and see that he doesn't drone up AT ALL or build an extractor. All you see is 6 drones and a spawning pool. Guess what's going to be knocking on your door. Given that you survived that, no matter how you did (without cheese), you're going to be ahead of him economy-wise, if you're playing just remotely well and knowing when to drone and when to build up your army.
> Take 3 expos in the first 10 minutes? Sure, if the opponent DOES NOT CHEESE. Again, you can't simply make up your mind 100% BEFORE even seeing what the opponent is building, and just go 3 expo in the first 10 minutes REGARDLESS of what the opponent is doing. Again, scout ahead and adjust to the opponent. If you're being forced to do a cheese, you're going with the wrong mindset. Surviving a cheese is far more effective, as people in higher leagues (although seldom) also uses cheesy techniques. Cheesing doesn't simply mean winning without any skill. Skill also doesn't solely mean winning late-game, because the opponent chose not to cheese your sorry a**. Your actual goal should be -yes I'm repeating this- SURVIVING the cheese, and not just go cheese in the next game in order to try to win that way.
> I'm not even close to being pro, believe me lol. But I kind of hope someone with a higher skill level can confirm this, because cheesing just because the opponent does, isn't exactly a way to improve.


Enlighten me how you survive 6 pool without cheesing yourself.

(or early marine raids for that matter, in TvT)

(and don't say tanks, because I can pump out 20 marines before you get a single tank







)


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Enlighten me how you survive 6 pool without cheesing yourself.
> (or early marine raids for that matter, in TvT)
> (and don't say tanks, because I can pump out 20 marines before you get a single tank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyr4EDq2r1c

Again, this is not calling "cheesing yourself". You are simply adjusting to the opponent. Bronze shouldn't be about whoever is best at 6pooling








Oh, and googling everything helped me a whole lot too, lol


----------



## sherlock

Just to confirm, I have seen an about 50% FPS drop( average went from 150 to about 75-80) on my computer (i5-3570K+GTX 670) since patch 1.52, and a lot of other people on battle.net have been complaining about it(seem to be GPU independent though), have you experienced a similar FPS drop?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Enlighten me how you survive 6 pool without cheesing yourself.
> (or early marine raids for that matter, in TvT)
> (and don't say tanks, because I can pump out 20 marines before you get a single tank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358672

Also the belief that there's less cheese in higher leagues and you need to cheese your way up there to enjoy "normal" games is false.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358672
> Also the belief that there's less cheese in higher leagues and you need to cheese your way up there to enjoy "normal" games is false.


I'd just like to thank you for actually agreeing with me







Being the big noob I am, it's nice to get my "beliefs" confirmed









What are you guys´ thoughts on micro trainers? Because I fell like my macro is slipping every time I move units out, especially in the late game. So I just make a macro-hatch or something like that. What else like a micro trainer could help me get better? I'd like to get my mechanics down to a somewhat decent level before giving my full attention to 1v1's, as I feel like I should have the basic things like that down before I do anything "wrong" in-game. This way, I don't have to get rid of a habit I have, because it's bad.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> That just sounds crazy. The key to actually advancing to somewhere far far away, where people aren't cheesing, is to SURVIVE the cheese. You don't become a better player by cheesing back. Lets say that you just got 6 pooled by a bronze zerg-player. If you didn't see it coming, well.. That's bronze for you right there. If you took the time to scout him and see that he doesn't drone up AT ALL or build an extractor. All you see is 6 drones and a spawning pool. Guess what's going to be knocking on your door. Given that you survived that, no matter how you did (without cheese), you're going to be ahead of him economy-wise, if you're playing just remotely well and knowing when to drone and when to build up your army.
> Take 3 expos in the first 10 minutes? Sure, if the opponent DOES NOT CHEESE. Again, you can't simply make up your mind 100% BEFORE even seeing what the opponent is building, and just go 3 expo in the first 10 minutes REGARDLESS of what the opponent is doing. Again, scout ahead and adjust to the opponent. If you're being forced to do a cheese, you're going with the wrong mindset. Surviving a cheese is far more effective, as people in higher leagues (although seldom) also uses cheesy techniques. Cheesing doesn't simply mean winning without any skill. Skill also doesn't solely mean winning late-game, because the opponent chose not to cheese your sorry a**. Your actual goal should be -yes I'm repeating this- SURVIVING the cheese, and not just go cheese in the next game in order to try to win that way.
> I'm not even close to being pro, believe me lol. But I kind of hope someone with a higher skill level can confirm this, because cheesing just because the opponent does, isn't exactly a way to improve.


I mostly agree with this but not entirely. Funny you mention the 6 pool because I had someone try to cheese me with that for the first time in a ZvZ last night. My typical build is 14 pool/14 hatch and I actually survived without a scratch by fighting back with queen/drones. As soon as I had about 8 zerglings out it was gg, since most bronze players who cheese cannot macro well enough at all. I think that there is definitely more cheese in bronze league than elsewhere and I've heard this from quite a few of my friends who are in higher leagues.

I just started playing Zerg about 2 weeks ago and find that I usually win when the opponent is not using an all-in but very often they do. Lately I've been losing against Banshee/Void Ray all-ins but I admit that that's partly my fault since I may forget to tech up to sufficient anti-air, as I'm expanding and building an army. With that said when you do manage to defend their cheese, which is manageable as long as you remember to follow all the steps, then you should be ready to attack them very quickly. It's also fun to starve players who stay on only one or two bases while they cheese. This works great against Protoss players who line their base with 50 cannons.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I mostly agree with this but not entirely. Funny you mention the 6 pool because I had someone try to cheese me with that for the first time in a ZvZ last night. My typical build is 14 pool/14 hatch and I actually survived without a scratch by fighting back with queen/drones. As soon as I had about 8 zerglings out it was gg, since most bronze players who cheese cannot macro well enough at all. I think that there is definitely more cheese in bronze league than elsewhere and I've heard this from quite a few of my friends who are in higher leagues.
> I just started playing Zerg about 2 weeks ago and find that I usually win when the opponent is not using an all-in but very often they do. Lately I've been losing against Banshee/Void Ray all-ins but I admit that that's partly my fault since I may forget to tech up to sufficient anti-air, as I'm expanding and building an army. With that said when you do manage to defend their cheese, which is manageable as long as you remember to follow all the steps, then you should be ready to attack them very quickly. It's also fun to starve players who stay on only one or two bases while they cheese. This works great against Protoss players who line their base with 50 cannons.


What part are you not agreeing on? I want to be sure that I've understood this properly. I don't see anything in your post, which is against anything I wrote in my last post









But yeah, many people just think that: "OMGOMG HIS 6POOL KILLED MOST OF MY WORKERS OMGOMG". Not many people are thinking about how many drones or tech the cheesing opponent actually sacrificed to make the cheese happen, so as long as one survives the cheese, whether it be in good or bad shape, he/she is most likely to come out on top regardless.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> What part are you not agreeing on? I want to be sure that I've understood this properly. I don't see anything in your post, which is against anything I wrote in my last post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, many people just think that: "OMGOMG HIS 6POOL KILLED MOST OF MY WORKERS OMGOMG". Not many people are thinking about how many drones or tech the cheesing opponent actually sacrificed to make the cheese happen, so as long as one survives the cheese, whether it be in good or bad shape, he/she is most likely to come out on top regardless.


It's not the tier 1 all-ins that I find difficult to defend, which I think a solid early scout and expansion can handle. My main issue is when they wall-in and tech to air very fast. I feel like defending against early mass Voids and, even more so, Banshees can be hard for Zerg unless it's expected. It's especially hard when the Banshees take out things like your Spawning Pool and Queens, which essentially blocks all production as you're waiting for buildings to complete so you can tech up to defend.


----------



## ronnin426850

OkanG, which region do you play in?


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> It's not the tier 1 all-ins that I find difficult to defend, which I think a solid early scout and expansion can handle. My main issue is when they wall-in and tech to air very fast. I feel like defending against early mass Voids and, even more so, Banshees can be hard for Zerg unless it's expected. It's especially hard when the Banshees take out things like your Spawning Pool and Queens, which essentially blocks all production as you're waiting for buildings to complete so you can tech up to defend.


Well, as Zerg I usually sacrifice an overseer to scout his base and see what he's teching to. I usually spread the overlords along the edges of the map, so that I can see things like drops and banshees very early, and build whatever I have to keep them away.
Oh, and again.. The banshees are quite expensive. They would have to harrass quite a lot for them to be cost effective. If he can just destroy a whole base purely with a couple of banshees, it's not exactly because banshees are OP.

Scouting doesn't end by early-game. Scouting the front is also something Day9 mentions a lot in his videos, and that has really helped me out a lot too.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Well, as Zerg I usually sacrifice an overseer to scout his base and see what he's teching to. I usually spread the overlords along the edges of the map, so that I can see things like drops and banshees very early, and build whatever I have to keep them away.
> Oh, and again.. The banshees are quite expensive. They would have to harrass quite a lot for them to be cost effective. If he can just destroy a whole base purely with a couple of banshees, it's not exactly because banshees are OP.
> Scouting doesn't end by early-game. Scouting the front is also something Day9 mentions a lot in his videos, and that has really helped me out a lot too.


Never said banshees are OP but if they're cloaked when you don't have detectors in place and they knock out your pool and evo chamber before you have a lair it means no anti-air/detection for a while. Before you say that I should have all those things earlier, I've seen plenty of games where pros wait a while before lair tech/detectors so I don't think it's necessarily the core build that's at fault.

Now that I think about it, I should probably be putting down several spores and making queens ASAP to defend. I'll have to check my replays but most likely I just haven't been doing this fast enough.


----------



## CravinR1

Blindly putting down spores will put you behind if they aren't going banished. You should suicide a overload no later than 7 min to see what the terra is building


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> OkanG, which region do you play in?


^ that went unnoticed


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> ^ that went unnoticed


Totally slipped by me, lol. But I play on the EU Servers


----------



## Anti!!

After playing thirty post catch up i am still trying to figure out why diamond league and below are even discussing balance, as if they really know what is broken.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> After playing thirty post catch up i am still trying to figure out why diamond league and below are even discussing balance, as if they really know what is broken.


Lack of technical skills doesn't mean lack of understanding of the game. I've been playing RTS for 15 years, I believe I have the right of comment on balance. Especially considering the tournament facts posted earlier.

Just kids these days are way too fast on the mouse and keyboard for me to catch up


----------



## Anti!!

Lol.

I understand your view. I used to believ the same way. Then istarted playing against masters players and winning and realized the skill gap from there to the high masters. Their understanding of the game was much greater than mine. Then i had to take into account the gap from there to the pro level. Also, the ability for pros to be able to max the ability of their race much more beyond what we can do. That alone opens so many more variables that we with our skill can not rule out. Meaning we cant seperate race issues based on our experience because it could be a race issue or our lack of skill or even both.

Now understood sometimes they are so obvious they cant be ignored, but 95% of the time blizzard jumps on it to fix it. So, to recap there is so much opinion involved with people with our skill that balance discussion will only enduse arguments, and facts are just biased and not factual.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol.
> I understand your view. I used to believ the same way. Then istarted playing against masters players and winning and realized the skill gap from there to the high masters. Their understanding of the game was much greater than mine. Then i had to take into account the gap from there to the pro level. Also, the ability for pros to be able to max the ability of their race much more beyond what we can do. That alone opens so many more variables that we with our skill can not rule out. Meaning we cant seperate race issues based on our experience because it could be a race issue or our lack of skill or even both.
> Now understood sometimes they are so obvious they cant be ignored, but 95% of the time blizzard jumps on it to fix it. So, to recap there is so much opinion involved with people with our skill that balance discussion will only enduse arguments, and facts are just biased and not factual.


Ok, but that means there are only 2 ways to understand the facts: Either Zerg is OP and the other races require hell of a lot more talent just to be able to be Equal to the zerg, and have the Option to win (which we saw on the Euro) OR all the good players just "like" zerg and the T and P fans are talentless, with minor exceptions.

The flat fact is that zerg wins left and right







And I highly doubt that there is any measurable skill difference between Thorzain and Staphano. Or Vortix and Lucifron! Brother vs brother was expected to have at least some thrill, since they know how to counter each other. Yet again, zerg all over the place.

T or P pro just needs a temporary flash of inhuman concentration and reflex in order to be toe to toe with a regular zerg pro. And when a zerg player gets that concentration and reflex flash.. Well you saw what Stephano did. He wiped the floor with the opposition.


----------



## Anti!!

Its concrete. Dunny how zerg players didnt unite with anyone when they were under powered ( some whould say they never were, but i say we didnt complain enough) , but it seems the toss and terrans are in support group over this.

Edit: Seeing as i am one of only three zergs in this whole thread i'll put my flame suit on now.


----------



## TranquilTempest

The problem with balance is in the micro, in general, brood war units benefited MUCH more from micro than sc2 units do. This means it's much much harder to pull a comeback.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> The problem with balance is in the micro, in general, brood war units benefited MUCH more from micro than sc2 units do. This means it's much much harder to pull a comeback.


While I can't really compare with BW, I can say that even in my limited experience micro can be the deciding factor between a win and a loss. I know I've won battles many times when I was outnumbered due to micro. Certain units, e.g. marines, become much better with proper micro.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> The problem with balance is in the micro, in general, brood war units benefited MUCH more from micro than sc2 units do. This means it's much much harder to pull a comeback.


Very true. Those were the good ol days. Sometimes i try and go back to play sc1 and i am just flabbergasted at how i even used to play that game... lol pros were pros and come backs were always possible. Now days its up to a single vortex or a great counter or a base trade. Rather boring really..


----------



## TFL Replica

No need to turn a discussion about game balance into a flame war. Keep it clean, guys.


----------



## poroboszcz

http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/ladder/grandmaster

lol


----------



## sherlock

Seems like 1.53 fixed the FPS issue with 1.52, my min(65->85), average(75->100) and max(115->150) all got a substantial increase. Though Bliz never explained what cause the issue.


----------



## 13321G4

To break the silence:

PLAT TO DIA IS EZ!

Seriously, it took me far longer to go from gold to plat, than plat to diamond.

In my experience silver to gold < plat to diamond < gold to plat < bronze to silver.

I was bronze league for soooo long.

(For the slow, I just got promoted)


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> To break the silence:
> PLAT TO DIA IS EZ!
> Seriously, it took me far longer to go from gold to plat, than plat to diamond.
> In my experience silver to gold < plat to diamond < gold to plat < bronze to silver.
> I was bronze league for soooo long.
> (For the slow, I just got promoted)


Can't comment about the others but I keep waiting until I get promoted from Bronze to Silver. It looks like the promised ladder changes are not working because I'm Bronze rank ~12 but am slightly favored in almost all my matchups, which have included higher ranked Bronze, a few Silver, and even one Gold player. My win:loss ratio is also higher than that of nearly every player in my division above me.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Can't comment about the others but I keep waiting until I get promoted from Bronze to Silver. It looks like the promised ladder changes are not working because I'm Bronze rank ~12 but am slightly favored in almost all my matchups, which have included higher ranked Bronze, a few Silver, and even one Gold player. My win:loss ratio is also higher than that of nearly every player in my division above me.


you'll get promoted sometime after you go 50-50 vs silver players. Work on improving one aspect of your game for 20 games straight, for example, constantly making workers, or never getting supply blocked. Then pick something else to spend 20 games working on.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> you'll get promoted sometime after you go 50-50 vs silver players. Work on improving one aspect of your game for 20 games straight, for example, constantly making workers, or never getting supply blocked. Then pick something else to spend 20 games working on.


This

Congrats on diamond! Dont stop now like i did.


----------



## Thedark1337

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvI52Y6J2jU&feature=g-vrec

Epic game by White Ra. This was a month ago before the beta patches though


----------



## HometownHero

Anti..., me and Harriss are waiting for some play...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Anti..., me and Harriss are waiting for some play...


Crap bro! I wish i would have known. Woulda hopped on.


----------



## HarrisLam

and i was so bad he rage quitted lolz


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> and i was so bad he rage quitted lolz


I found out I passed the bar the other day so I got pretty drunk, lol. I left because I needed to pass out, not because you were bad


----------



## OverClocker55

My SC2 acount got hacked.







But blizzard is sending me the authenticator so it doesn't happen again.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> My SC2 acount got hacked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But blizzard is sending me the authenticator so it doesn't happen again.


My WoW account got hacked and they never responded? How did u get it back?


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> My WoW account got hacked and they never responded? How did u get it back?


just send them a message on there costumer support page. they reply back pretty fast


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> just send them a message on there costumer support page. they reply back pretty fast


I did and they said they were looking into it. The account got banned for selling gold, but the person who did it changed it to asianic (chinese?) characters and was definately not me


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I did and they said they were looking into it. The account got banned for selling gold, but the person who did it changed it to asianic (chinese?) characters and was definately not me


Try calling them. I had to do that once cause there customer support wasn't helping.


----------



## Anti!!

Yea , you get more with a phone call.

Also, dont get the phone app. Blizzard acts like you will have that phone forever. I sent my phone in for warranty and had to redownload the app and they locked my account for a few days. It sucked cause it was close to sc2 beta days..


----------



## Thedark1337

i constantly change ROMS on my phone so i wrote down the serial number and restore code for my authenticator. Restore works every time but the annoying thing is i cant exit the app unless i mess around with the app a little.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thedark1337*
> 
> i constantly change ROMS on my phone so i wrote down the serial number and restore code for my authenticator. Restore works every time but the annoying thing is i cant exit the app unless i mess around with the app a little.


I found that doing a restore using TiBu worked as well.


----------



## OverClocker55

I hate the app. When you get a new phone its a pain in the but to get it off and put it on the new phone.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> I hate the app. When you get a new phone its a pain in the but to get it off and put it on the new phone.


Recently did this, root + TiBu restore was all that was needed. I can't even imagine what people who have a lot of apps on their phone do without the ability to restore from their old phone to the new one.


----------



## Anti!!

Do what i do.. suffer.. Google backup has helpd alot though. Usually loads them automagically on my new phone.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> To break the silence:
> PLAT TO DIA IS EZ!
> Seriously, it took me far longer to go from gold to plat, than plat to diamond.
> In my experience silver to gold < plat to diamond < gold to plat < bronze to silver.
> I was bronze league for soooo long.
> (For the slow, I just got promoted)


ohh men,, i play toss.. im stuck in plat since last season, i had reached top places for a while, then i dropped the ball, this season i got top places also, but now im 18 rank.. i beat a lot of top plats and some diamond and EVEN a master (weird, why did i figth a master ?? ) i have some good winning streak (5 or 6) then i lossess streaks an so on.. no promotions for a while i guess


----------



## Fortunex

I think it depends on how you play and where your weak points are. I was facing mostly diamonds with a good win ratio before I stopped playing, but quit before I got the promotion to diamond.

Biggest difference that I've noticed between plat and diamond is their openings. Diamonds have perfected their openings and get their early macro up a lot faster. Bronze to plat was mostly just macro and multitasking improvements.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> I think it depends on how you play and where your weak points are. I was facing mostly diamonds with a good win ratio before I stopped playing, but quit before I got the promotion to diamond.
> Biggest difference that I've noticed between plat and diamond is their openings. Diamonds have perfected their openings and get their early macro up a lot faster. Bronze to plat was mostly just macro and multitasking improvements.


yeah. in plat i almost never see chesse ppl.. i always scout as hell anyways.. maybe is my micro, toss depends alot of sentries and forcefields, thats what im weak the most. . . lower leagues i remember all those crazy builds and all in and a lot of chesse... in plat and higher ppl play more solid..


----------



## 13321G4

Nah the cheese is just more refined.

You will never stop seeing cheese.

As my MMR went up I've noticed times where I would get cheesed every game, then not cheesed at all, then cheesed again every game, then not again. Usually the mass cheese happened very close to a promotion/ after a promotion.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Nah the cheese is just more refined.
> You will never stop seeing cheese.
> As my MMR went up I've noticed times where I would get cheesed every game, then not cheesed at all, then cheesed again every game, then not again. Usually the mass cheese happened very close to a promotion/ after a promotion.


what raze do you play ? add me if you want, maybe we can play later

yukss #987


----------



## Anti!!

Both of you add me. Lol need some more peeps to 1v1 when i do get to be online.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> what raze do you play ? add me if you want, maybe we can play later
> yukss #987


You're high plat now? Good to see you progressing up the ranks









as for me, I wonder if I can hang in there at high silver for 1v1 lol....


----------



## 13321G4

I'm on EU guys


----------



## HometownHero

Wow, yesterday was a tough day to be a SC2 fan. Did anyone visit /r/starcraft yesterday?


----------



## Anti!!

No. Whats is r starcaft?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm on EU guys


Get a NA account and be masters already.. lol


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm on EU guys


Did you make it to diamond? We should play sometime.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> No. Whats is r starcaft?


Not sure is srs, it's a reddit subreddit dedicated to starcraft. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm on EU guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get a NA account and be masters already.. lol
Click to expand...

I totally wanted one when they were only 10 bucks a piece. Shame I know no one in america (that I can trust blindy). (sorry)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm on EU guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you make it to diamond? We should play sometime.
Click to expand...

Would love to







, I'm still so bad though. Was very surprised with plat to diamond. My mechanics are no where near where I want them to be. My army control is lacking. Game sense needs to be fine-tuned.

I play this other diamond guy I met when I was gold (wut? My Phoenixes PvP were good







) often and he just out classes me.

All I did to get from plat to diamond is use builds that punish opponents if they make a mistake.
5-8gate timing PvT roots out all the greedy/poor macro terrans.
DT's PvP roots out all the non robo toss'es, with a chargelot archon follow up, that kills greed/poor macro again.
PvZ I use grubby's inbase forgeFE into stargate with phoenixes. It is fun, but not as punishing... (and yes I can hold/delay a 12 minute roach max using it.).

I'm looking for a build to punish a zerg that is teching too fast. What comes to mind is 3 base muta or 3 base ling infestor. Something drop heavy sounds cool







(ssonlight did something impressive but I haven't 'mastered' that)


----------



## Yukss

i wanna play with you guys.. add me

yukss #987


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Not sure is srs, it's a reddit subreddit dedicated to starcraft. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/.
> I totally wanted one when they were only 10 bucks a piece. Shame I know no one in america (that I can trust blindy). (sorry))


Im tempted to let you use my secondary account.


----------



## HometownHero

When does everyone go on nowadays? We should try to get as coordinated as possible if we want to 1v1, KoTH, etc. I usually am on during the evening, between ~7-10.


----------



## SoulFiend

200001??


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Not sure is srs, it's a reddit subreddit dedicated to starcraft. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/.
> I totally wanted one when they were only 10 bucks a piece. Shame I know no one in america (that I can trust blindy). (sorry))
> 
> 
> 
> Im tempted to let you use my secondary account.
Click to expand...

That would be amazing!







Downloading NA SC2 now :-D?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> That would be amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Downloading NA SC2 now :-D?


Didn't I offer you access to a NA account when you were silver


----------



## DoomDash

Every time I think about SCII I get sad and miss it. I just know I can't put them time into though.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> That would be amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Downloading NA SC2 now :-D?
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't I offer you access to a NA account when you were silver
Click to expand...

Yes but you also specified that it was for one time use only. And I completely forgot the password and stuff xD. If you don't mind me using that account, hit me up on the details on Skype again (please). I won't use it often. Just to play with you guys or something.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Yes but you also specified that it was for one time use only. And I completely forgot the password and stuff xD. If you don't mind me using that account, hit me up on the details on Skype again (please). I won't use it often. Just to play with you guys or something.


Usually 7 to 10 p.m. cst for me also. Even tonight if you all want. And rlndvt i will send you the email and pass on pm. Using it for when we play will be just fine with me. It just sits idle.


----------



## Anti!!

Have you guys ever seen these? They are freaking hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COV2GfUnxFc&feature=plcp


----------



## CravinR1

I started when they were on ep 2 very well done. I've seen them advertised in game since ep 6.


----------



## CravinR1

Figured i'd post a few games. 4 PvT with my Plat #4 Terran friend and a PvP on the ladder vs a Diamond cheeser. Anyone want to help me with my PvT ? Hints or suggestions appreciated !!

SC.zip 160k .zip file


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Figured i'd post a few games. 4 PvT with my Plat #4 Terran friend and a PvP on the ladder vs a Diamond cheeser. Anyone want to help me with my PvT ? Hints or suggestions appreciated !!
> 
> SC.zip 160k .zip file


Your opening sets you behind, a bunker will shut down any kind of aggression you can do, so don't make more than 1 zealot and 1 stalker before your nexus. Aside from 1 chrono boost on your stalker, you should be spending all your chrono boost on probes. If you probescout, you can cancel zealot if you see him take a super fast command center, or you can skip the probescout if there's nothing specific you're looking for and poke with 1zealot 1stalker. In general I'd suggest focusing on one opening in detail, don't change your whole opening every time you run into a problem, just change as little as possible to not die to it next time.

Also, it's best to send a replay where you lose in a way you don't fully understand.


----------



## CravinR1

My opening is pretty strong in plat at least. I do my 13 gate then scout. If I see CC first I chrono 2 zealots and a stalker and punish it. If I don't see cc first or gas I chrono probes. You think this puts me behind? I usually do a ton of damage and deny the bunker, especially a cc first. If they 1 rax fe I make the zealot and a stalker and drop my nexus


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Have you guys ever seen these? They are freaking hilarious!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COV2GfUnxFc&feature=plcp


Haha thats great! Thanks!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Haha thats great! Thanks!


Lol np!


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> My opening is pretty strong in plat at least. I do my 13 gate then scout. If I see CC first I chrono 2 zealots and a stalker and punish it. If I don't see cc first or gas I chrono probes. You think this puts me behind? I usually do a ton of damage and deny the bunker, especially a cc first. If they 1 rax fe I make the zealot and a stalker and drop my nexus


That sounds like a good opening againts terran, i'm also plat and toss btw, we should practice together, add me if you want to

yukss #987


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> My opening is pretty strong in plat at least. I do my 13 gate then scout. If I see CC first I chrono 2 zealots and a stalker and punish it. If I don't see cc first or gas I chrono probes. You think this puts me behind? I usually do a ton of damage and deny the bunker, especially a cc first. If they 1 rax fe I make the zealot and a stalker and drop my nexus


People cc first in plat? Jeez, I've been away for a while.

I don't know what it's like for the protoss side of things, but there are a few tells to know what the Terran is doing. A Proper 1 Rax FE will drop the CC BEFORE the second depot on the ramp. This means if you go up his ramp and see the typical depot-rax-depot wall, then he's probably not going 1 rax fe, or if he is, he's floating it and he will be behind your 1 Gate FE.

If you see gas first, obv, worry about bancheese/hellion drop.

If he goes standard gas, there are a few tells to clue you into what hes doing. If he goes tech lab first, there's a strong chance he's hitting you with a Marauder+Concussive shell push + a few scvs. This can't really threaten your 1gate fe since you can let it take damage and delay until more units come out. Just don't lose the nexus. Even if he makes bunkers, you can crush it pretty well because he's going to be trying to get his CC up and will have less production than you for a while.

If you see a reactor first, be careful. On small maps you may have to cancel your nexus entirely. On others, you're gonna have to chrono your gates, watch that ramp with sentries and be really weary. This can be either a 10 marine 2 marauder + scv poke meant to punish a quick nexus, or a marine+marauder+combat shield+scv allin. It's true that it could be a reactor expansion to try to freak you out, but I've rarely seen this.


----------



## snelan

Alright guys and Anti, gonna give it another chance lol. I'm thinking I will be about mid plat level.

Gonna try to be more about fun now, as I ruined it for myself by being too competitive last time. Also, gonna try to focus on things like scouting, adapting instead of getting mad all the time.

Wish me well!










EDIT: Beat a mid diamond and was placed in Gold







Was rank 1 diamond before my 3 month break facing low masters.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Alright guys and Anti, gonna give it another chance lol. I'm thinking I will be about mid plat level.
> Gonna try to be more about fun now, as I ruined it for myself by being too competitive last time. Also, gonna try to focus on things like scouting, adapting instead of getting mad all the time.
> Wish me well!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Beat a mid diamond and was placed in Gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was rank 1 diamond before my 3 month break facing low masters.


good. but to be honest, i cannot see the fun of this game, is stressfull as hell, i have 2 season in plat, reched top places in both seasons then drop the ball and fall to mid plat, this game is like going to the job, and i get mad all time lol..


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> good. but to be honest, i cannot see the fun of this game, is stressfull as hell, i have 2 season in plat, reched top places in both seasons then drop the ball and fall to mid plat, this game is like going to the job, and i get mad all time lol..


Yea exactly, I'm just playing LoL the rest of the night now


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> good. but to be honest, i cannot see the fun of this game, is stressfull as hell, i have 2 season in plat, reched top places in both seasons then drop the ball and fall to mid plat, this game is like going to the job, and i get mad all time lol..


because this is the real sheet we are talking about here

for causal games you will always have your sim cities, your magicka and your so and so tycoon!!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Yea exactly, I'm just playing LoL the rest of the night now


Yea, i dont even 1v1. I know i wont have the time to practice to stay sharp. So i just play random 3v3 or AoS or whatever it is. (Sc2 dota).

I used to play LoL quiet a bit.

Whatever is fun.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea, i dont even 1v1. I know i wont have the time to practice to stay sharp. So i just play random 3v3 or AoS or whatever it is. (Sc2 dota).


man i could never get used to that

i really tried the period it came out, and i couldnt even figure out how to combine items









and personally i think SC2 dota can't be as good as war3 as long as zergling is used as a creep model - too small and hard to click on = unfair


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> man i could never get used to that
> i really tried the period it came out, and i couldnt even figure out how to combine items
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and personally i think SC2 dota can't be as good as war3 as long as zergling is used as a creep model - too small and hard to click on = unfair


Oh is changed greatly. It is totally sc2 esc. Now. And its roach hydra creeps. Pretty fun actually. Also the items are all recommended rather well. And the ui is improved.


----------



## snelan

Anti we gotta do some more team games soon.

I'll ditch my 1v1 career and we'll make a top masters 2v2 team.


----------



## Yukss

cool, i was mid plat last season (yesterday), and today at my placement match i beated a mid diamond i got placed in gold ? WTH


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Anti we gotta do some more team games soon.
> I'll ditch my 1v1 career and we'll make a top masters 2v2 team.


Yep!! We can do it. Also sogey will play with us for 3s masters.


----------



## Yukss

Hey guys add me as teama mate


----------



## HarrisLam

what about me!!!!!

i do 4v4s









by the way I'm totally switching to protoss now that i ONLY play 4v4 (was an alternating terran/protoss and played all kinds except FFA)

provided that i dont get ling rushed at the start, I found protoss really has a messed up strong army, and most people dont notice when theres like 3 DTs in your big ball


----------



## Yukss

Harrislam i just saw you online


----------



## snelan

Anyone who wants to join would be awesome. Most of us (Me, Anti, Soge) started in 1s so we really have no idea what or if there is any strategy we should use in team games besides just massing units.


----------



## HometownHero

Ahem... I've been saying we should try for a 4v4 master team.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yep!! We can do it. Also sogey will play with us for 3s masters.


Ahem, I've been saying we should run a 4v4 master team.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Anyone who wants to join would be awesome. Most of us (Me, Anti, Soge) started in 1s so we really have no idea what or if there is any strategy we should use in team games besides just massing units.


there are roughly 3 viable strats in 4v4

1) all rush (or cheese)
2) 3 rush 1 expand / tech
3) all expand and defend

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Harrislam i just saw you online


ya, it was me at work on my laptop in lunchtime







.

finally bought that new laptop I wanted so bad. It can BARELY play SC2, connection speed with my phone tethering is also BARELY do-able

I dont even know whether I should be happy or sad


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> there are roughly 3 viable strats in 4v4
> 1) all rush (or cheese)
> 2) 3 rush 1 expand / tech
> 3) all expand and defend
> ya, it was me at work on my laptop in lunchtime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> finally bought that new laptop I wanted so bad. It can BARELY play SC2, connection speed with my phone tethering is also BARELY do-able
> I dont even know whether I should be happy or sad


What laptop was it?


----------



## Anti!!

In my defense you are all ALWAYS invited to do teams. Hahaha

My add info is below. Always that is. Lol


----------



## snelan

If anyone wants to add me:

Star Craft II: RaptureDS - 173
Star Craft II: ChompersDS - 728
Steam: snelan

Rapture is my alternate/fool around account. I am playing on that while I still suck.


----------



## Anti!!

I feel like i have given out my add info so many times, but no one ever adds. lol Am I stinky? Or is Hometown hero, and Yks the only dumb ones here. haha jks


----------



## ronnin426850

I'll add you when I find where to put my mouse, so I can play keyb+mouse driven games, right now I'm stuck at keyb only NFS and Fifa


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll add you when I find where to put my mouse, so I can play keyb+mouse driven games, right now I'm stuck at keyb only NFS and Fifa


LOLZ......

This is getting close to rep-able range. I'm serious.

side note : you can actually play DOTA decently with the pad if you're dedicated enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I feel like i have given out my add info so many times, but no one ever adds. lol Am I stinky? Or is Hometown hero, and Yks the only dumb ones here. haha jks


Ive seen you getting online enough times back in the days before D3 and GW2 launched (when I basically stopped playing. Ive resumed now of course), and I dont exactly remember which reason it was, but I mainly didnt add you because of one of the below reasons :

1) you rarely played team games back then
2) your diamond status scares me









but seriously I also tend to feel bad when I suck in the games if I happened to be playing with friends. And if you suffered badly in any point of the game in SC2, its really hard to come back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> What laptop was it?


Its gigabyte U2442n.

It's actually an awesome laptop. Excellent package, quite unbeatable performance : price ratio in "portable gaming" category. It's just that I'm way too used to gaming on my desktop that I got a bit disappointed when I fire up SC2 and GW2 on laptop. Like, I know 640M isn't almighty awesome, but aren't SC2 and GW2 both CPU intensive? And this laptop has 3rd gen...

Im really tempted to do a brief review here on OCN, advertise it a bit, but I'm a lazy person


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Wow, I would not expect you to have problems running SC2 with a 640m. All your drivers up to date?

On a side note, has anyone upgraded to Windows 8 yet? I'm tempted to; I want to see what all the fuss is about. If there are compatibility problems with SC2 though, I think I'll pass.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> ^^ Wow, I would not expect you to have problems running SC2 with a 640m. All your drivers up to date?
> On a side note, has anyone upgraded to Windows 8 yet? I'm tempted to; I want to see what all the fuss is about. If there are compatibility problems with SC2 though, I think I'll pass.


Running Win8 RP, no problems at all with SC2


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> ^^ Wow, I would not expect you to have problems running SC2 with a 640m. All your drivers up to date?
> On a side note, has anyone upgraded to Windows 8 yet? I'm tempted to; I want to see what all the fuss is about. If there are compatibility problems with SC2 though, I think I'll pass.


well, not really the latest driver at all, driver 29x.xx came with it. I wouldnt say its all that old, it's most likely newer than the game itself so....

EDIT : just to clarify, my laptop can play the game at roughly medium settings (every setting is around the +1 of lowest). It goes smooth when not much is happening, but at big fights the FPS will likely drop down to 10-20, which is still playable, mind you, just not desirable.

Note that the laptop does have a real 640M (non-LE), but it also has a 1600x900 resolution as 14" as suppose to the usual 1368x768 (not sure if this is a facotr)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> well, not really the latest driver at all, driver 29x.xx came with it. I wouldnt say its all that old, it's most likely newer than the game itself so....
> EDIT : just to clarify, my laptop can play the game at roughly medium settings (every setting is around the +1 of lowest). It goes smooth when not much is happening, but at big fights the FPS will likely drop down to 10-20, which is still playable, mind you, just not desirable.
> Note that the laptop does have a real 640M (non-LE), but it also has a 1600x900 resolution as 14" as suppose to the usual 1368x768 (not sure if this is a facotr)


Heh, drop the res a bit







My lappie is 1680x1050 native, but I play all games at 1366x768, so my 9700mGT wouldn't sweat so much


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> well, not really the latest driver at all, driver 29x.xx came with it. I wouldnt say its all that old, it's most likely newer than the game itself so....
> EDIT : just to clarify, my laptop can play the game at roughly medium settings (every setting is around the +1 of lowest). It goes smooth when not much is happening, but at big fights the FPS will likely drop down to 10-20, which is still playable, mind you, just not desirable.
> Note that the laptop does have a real 640M (non-LE), but it also has a 1600x900 resolution as 14" as suppose to the usual 1368x768 (not sure if this is a facotr)


Gotcha. Id go with ronnin's suggestion and maybe drop your resolution a little. Might help you keep your gfx settings up.


----------



## HarrisLam

ive tried it a bit more at home, it seems like a lot of those lags and pauses I remembered were from the unstable internet connection.

When I play at home, the frames were still around 2x in big fights but its nowhere near as annoying as when I was at work.

god anyone here absolutely hates the favor system? Just played a game with favored opponents, it was such as intense game (which means they probably were really "favored"), we had a tough early game but managed to hang on, and eventually win because we out-resourced them.

scorescreen comes on : even match, +12, +12

WHAT THE FU SON OF A BEEEEEEEECH WHAT?

dude, even if its even match, it can go all the way to like +14 +14, why is the system so bad.....got me all excited..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ive tried it a bit more at home, it seems like a lot of those lags and pauses I remembered were from the unstable internet connection.
> When I play at home, the frames were still around 2x in big fights but its nowhere near as annoying as when I was at work.
> god anyone here absolutely hates the favor system? Just played a game with favored opponents, it was such as intense game (which means they probably were really "favored"), we had a tough early game but managed to hang on, and eventually win because we out-resourced them.
> scorescreen comes on : even match, +12, +12
> WHAT THE FU SON OF A BEEEEEEEECH WHAT?
> dude, even if its even match, it can go all the way to like +14 +14, why is the system so bad.....got me all excited..


Oh dude. I hate it too. I play a favored and barely lose sometimes and be dissapointed and then it will be like. Jokes on you! You were favored -9001 points!

Edit** by the by. Diamond statuz is about like plat status. Equally weak in the Gran Scheme of things really.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Its gigabyte U2442n.
> 
> It's actually an awesome laptop. Excellent package, quite unbeatable performance : price ratio in "portable gaming" category. It's just that I'm way too used to gaming on my desktop that I got a bit disappointed when I fire up SC2 and GW2 on laptop. Like, I know 640M isn't almighty awesome, but aren't SC2 and GW2 both CPU intensive? And this laptop has 3rd gen...


my samsung A6 quad core 2.4ghz with 8 gb ram ddr3 and ati ah 6420 500mb can barely run it at medium settings at default screen res 1600*900


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> my samsung A6 quad core 2.4ghz with 8 gb ram ddr3 and ati ah 6420 500mb can barely run it at medium settings at default screen res 1600*900


6420 is like twice slower than 640m as far as I know.. :?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 6420 is like twice slower than 640m as far as I know.. :?


thats why then


----------



## HarrisLam

what is the definition of "barely" anyway? What kind of frames are we talking about here?

by A6 you mean APU? That sounds pretty good given what you got.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> what is the definition of "barely" anyway? What kind of frames are we talking about here?
> by A6 you mean APU? That sounds pretty good given what you got.


yeah apu, well, look at my main rig, my eyes are used to see ultra settings and countless fps, and when i play at medium/low settings and only 30fps at most i say the word "barely"


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> yeah apu, well, look at my main rig, my eyes are used to see ultra settings and countless fps, and when i play at medium/low settings and only 30fps at most i say the word "barely"


heh, spoiled









Anyway, if anyone wants to be added by a mid-bronze that is terribly out of shape, for a few friendly matches, pls post tag, or add Ronnin426850#2161

Unfortunately I still haven't found a place for my mouse, so I have to walk through half the city to go to my mom's so I can play some SC, Diablo or Crysis...

Edit: Thinking about it, how do you actually add anyone if not by e-mail or Facebook?


----------



## HarrisLam

ah, that makes it pretty fair. I think my frames peak at around 50-60

well, with that sig rig im pretty sure you knew what you were doing when you bought that laptop : it was definitely not meant for SC2 anyway...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> heh, spoiled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, if anyone wants to be added by a mid-bronze that is terribly out of shape, for a few friendly matches, pls post tag, or add Ronnin426850#2161
> Unfortunately I still haven't found a place for my mouse, so I have to walk through half the city to go to my mom's so I can play some SC, Diablo or Crysis...
> Edit: Thinking about it, how do you actually add anyone if not by e-mail or Facebook?


Do you play in NA? Feel free to add this upper-bronze noob. My tag is Khaos#960. I won't be on for another week or so though, since I'm away from home due to the hurricane and the place where I'm staying has a crappy computer.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Do you play in NA? Feel free to add this upper-bronze noob. My tag is Khaos#960. I won't be on for another week or so though, since I'm away from home due to the hurricane and the place where I'm staying has a crappy computer.


Is your family all healthy and safe?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Is your family all healthy and safe?


Yes, thankfully everyone I know is fine. This has only shaped up to be an inconvenience for me, since my apartment is still without power/heat/hot water. As a result, my family and I are staying at my dad's place this week. Funny as it may sound, the two things I miss most are my bed and SC2.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Yes, thankfully everyone I know is fine. This has only shaped up to be an inconvenience for me, since my apartment is still without power/heat/hot water. As a result, my family and I are staying at my dad's place this week. Funny as it may sound, the two things I miss most are my bed and SC2.


Hahaha. I live in alabama. We went through that for a week. But stayed at the house. We cooked things as they thawed. I even had to make a birthday cake on the grill as it fell on my moms birthday. My wife just read books the whole time. The tornados were dropping peoples confedential information in our neighborhood from nearly a hundred miles away.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> heh, spoiled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, if anyone wants to be added by a mid-bronze that is terribly out of shape, for a few friendly matches, pls post tag, or add Ronnin426850#2161
> Unfortunately I still haven't found a place for my mouse, so I have to walk through half the city to go to my mom's so I can play some SC, Diablo or Crysis...
> Edit: Thinking about it, how do you actually add anyone if not by e-mail or Facebook?


Ronnin, cant add you. You sure you typed that right?

Edit: Where did you go Harris? Hate we didnt get to play teams

I just had to show fornax op zerg wasnt his problem

I beat him tvt haha

Edit 2: I see where you said bye.

You didnt have all chat enabled. Didnt see you leave or say bye until replay haha. Turned out to be a really good game. Maybe i should send you the replay.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Edit: Where did you go Harris? Hate we didnt get to play teams
> I just had to show fornax op zerg wasnt his problem
> I beat him tvt haha
> Edit 2: I see where you said bye.
> You didnt have all chat enabled. Didnt see you leave or say bye until replay haha. Turned out to be a really good game. Maybe i should send you the replay.


well that game was an embarassment









Anyway yes, it was the lunch time for me so I couldnt stick around for longer. I'm just glad the game actually went as smooth as it did. Last week I played a horrible game where I lagged 3 out of every 10 seconds.

this is the first time I played this.....mode? or something, I don't know, so I know nothing about the options. I was aware that I couldn't view your chats. I thought that meant team chats though, so turns out it means all chat.

I don't really play 1v1 anymore, and even if I still do I dont think I would stand a chance. I'm only decent in macro and straight-up battles, I'm really bad at micro, harassing and handling harasses. I was actually very pleased by my teching progress in that game








.

I also watched half of your game and yes it was pretty good. You responded very well to his tank drop. Hell, I would have almost waved the white flag right away when I see those tanks sieged


----------



## ronnin426850

Somebody play EU? It's quite lonely here


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Somebody play EU? It's quite lonely here


You are gonna just have to join us NAers. lol Its where it is at!


----------



## rainetsl

Did anyone catch MLG? Seeing flash play was amazing. Top 3 at MLG already and the top Terran. Man it is so scary to see what he will be like in a few months time


----------



## 13321G4

His macro was amazing but his games sense was way off. He just went MOAR MARINES and eventually power-rolled his high tech opponents.

I am over simplifying it, but this is basically what I saw. I'm just imagining how good he will be once his game sense is top notch.

Also

EU peeps add me RlndRSA.171


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> His macro was amazing but his games sense was way off. He just went MOAR MARINES and eventually power-rolled his high tech opponents.
> I am over simplifying it, but this is basically what I saw. I'm just imagining how good he will be once his game sense is top notch.
> Also
> EU peeps add me RlndRSA.171


Whats up with the na account i lent you? You gonna get on so i have someone to play with?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> His macro was amazing but his games sense was way off. He just went MOAR MARINES and eventually power-rolled his high tech opponents.
> I am over simplifying it, but this is basically what I saw. I'm just imagining how good he will be once his game sense is top notch.
> Also
> EU peeps add me RlndRSA.171


added!







What race do you play?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> His macro was amazing but his games sense was way off. He just went MOAR MARINES and eventually power-rolled his high tech opponents.
> I am over simplifying it, but this is basically what I saw. I'm just imagining how good he will be once his game sense is top notch.
> Also
> EU peeps add me RlndRSA.171
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats up with the na account i lent you? You gonna get on so i have someone to play with?
Click to expand...

I'm in the middle of my first term exams. (We have four 'terms'). Very busy. How can I know you guys are online?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> His macro was amazing but his games sense was way off. He just went MOAR MARINES and eventually power-rolled his high tech opponents.
> I am over simplifying it, but this is basically what I saw. I'm just imagining how good he will be once his game sense is top notch.
> Also
> EU peeps add me RlndRSA.171
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> added!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What race do you play?
Click to expand...

Protoss master race.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm in the middle of my first term exams. (We have four 'terms'). Very busy. How can I know you guys are online?


by getting online

LOL


----------



## Alex132

Been so out of this game, sticking to LoL until HotS gets released


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Been so out of this game, sticking to LoL until HotS gets released


Looks like that could be 5-7 months from now:

Polygon: StarCraft 2: Heart of the Swarm launching in 'first half 2013'


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> Looks like that could be 5-7 months from now:
> Polygon: StarCraft 2: Heart of the Swarm launching in 'first half 2013'


You have to translate that into Blizzard time, so probably Q1 2014.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You have to translate that into Blizzard time, so probably Q1 2014.


By the by mister..

I fell asleep at the desk waiting for you to finish yours just to wake up to you saying you had to see what the election did. JERK!!! lol

Besides we all knew what was gonna happen. There was no reason to hold our breath. Go vote, and let the chips fall where they may.

Im hurt. lol jks


----------



## TranquilTempest

Anyone want to practice with a rusty master leaguer? SoulWager.969

Make sure you say you're from OCN so i don't delete the invite (been getting spam from d3 gold bots)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Anyone want to practice with a rusty master leaguer? SoulWager.969
> Make sure you say you're from OCN so i don't delete the invite (been getting spam from d3 gold bots)


EU or NA?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> EU or NA?


NA


----------



## FrankoNL

Normally i am a high silver low gold toss player. Altough i like protoss i want to take a crack at playing Zerg, but i have not the faintest idea on what a good zerg opener is!

All the zerg openers i find online are pretty much out of date. (sept 2010 etc)

Can anyone give me a decent opener or a link where i can find more info?


----------



## Anti!!

1v1 or teams?


----------



## FrankoNL

1v1


----------



## Anti!!

Well against T you normally open 15 hatch then 17 pool if you dont see bunker rush. Then 16 gas.

Over lord then two queens when your natural finishes.

If you see a sneaky scv in suspicious spots be ready to pull about 6 drones and make sure to kill the scvs making bunker. You cannot let the bunker finish. Once your queens pop. While still droning you can make 2 more queens to deny early early pressure. Spend your first 100 gas on speed. Then the build changes based on what you scout.

Against P ill pool first at 15

Then 15 hatch

Kinda gas when i wanna. 15 - 16 - 17.

Keep a scout on the toss. If he goes forge gast expand you wanna grab third around 5ish or as soon as you can defend it.

Also if a terran does an early expo build you wanna grab a third quickly too. You wanna stay up at least one base at all time. Also dont hesitate to get that macro in base hatch. You will need it until you can spit larva on a dime all game long.

These are all loose and quick suggestions. I could elaborate more but you will have enough to keep up with for now. Besides it should be plenty given the league you are in 'for now'.

Also. I like to hatch first around 15 in zvz then 15 pool and 14 gas. In your league you will have to do it that soon after hatch because you will run into a few 1 and 2 base quick allins. Good luck. Feel free to add me. I can help if im ever on. Just ask snelan.


----------



## snelan

Honestly, I would just stay with the 15p 15h for P and Z, and the 15h 15p for T. That's how I learned (Anti taught me







) and it worked fine. At those leagues it's (and even into masters) it's not always the opening that decides who is ahead. A better executed 14p 16h against a Terran will edge out a badly executed 15h 17p any day, and keep in mind that a 14p 16h is probably the worst opening against Terran.

Also, remember that against an FFE (Forge Fast Expand) you can take your third a *little* bit before you are comfortable. This is because they will also be focusing mainly on econ too, so under normal circumstances, you should just see a stalker and a zealot to harass the third. Queendralisks and lings can clean that up. Keep in mind that most toss' (not saying you) like to try to pull stupid crap all the time to get free wins because they don't feel like doing their already-cheesy 2 base all in. So watch out for early voids if you see an early gas on the third (around 6-6:30 gas timing), or sometimes they will just not drone their nat and try a modified 4 gate.


----------



## HarrisLam

man, I wonder exactly how rusty I am in 1v1, I mean, anti you know how incompetent I was against your friend's harass last time

it's just funny that a local commercial about a sexual-enhancement drug came out with a slogan (somewhere along the lines of) "however razor sharp the blade is, eventually some day it will rust"

lolz


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well against T you normally open 15 hatch then 17 pool if you dont see bunker rush. Then 16 gas.
> Over lord then two queens when your natural finishes.
> If you see a sneaky scv in suspicious spots be ready to pull about 6 drones and make sure to kill the scvs making bunker. You cannot let the bunker finish. Once your queens pop. While still droning you can make 2 more queens to deny early early pressure. Spend your first 100 gas on speed. Then the build changes based on what you scout.
> Against P ill pool first at 15
> Then 15 hatch
> Kinda gas when i wanna. 15 - 16 - 17.
> Keep a scout on the toss. If he goes forge gast expand you wanna grab third around 5ish or as soon as you can defend it.
> Also if a terran does an early expo build you wanna grab a third quickly too. You wanna stay up at least one base at all time. Also dont hesitate to get that macro in base hatch. You will need it until you can spit larva on a dime all game long.
> These are all loose and quick suggestions. I could elaborate more but you will have enough to keep up with for now. Besides it should be plenty given the league you are in 'for now'.
> Also. I like to hatch first around 15 in zvz then 15 pool and 14 gas. In your league you will have to do it that soon after hatch because you will run into a few 1 and 2 base quick allins. Good luck. Feel free to add me. I can help if im ever on. Just ask snelan.


I will add you, but on what server do you play?









Tnx for the advice btw!

I found some great new Appollo tutorials on playing zerg, including the hotkey setup etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUalKWgB7Y ( part one of a four-part series)

@ Snelan: I'm not a cheeser thank god







I hate cheesing. I know its part of the game but i just don't see why someone would pull this crap. In the lower league it's the only thing some of the players do ... every game. And as soon as they encounter a decent opponent who can hold it off they have no clue what to follow it up with.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> If he goes forge gast expand you wanna grab third around 5ish or as soon as you can defend it.


Nice write up, just on the fast third note. As P I defecate balls If I don't see a third at the 4:30 mark. 5 minutes is late. If you see forge fast expand. Take drones out of gas, take third, then put drones back in gas.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Nice write up, just on the fast third note. As P I defecate balls If I don't see a third at the 4:30 mark. 5 minutes is late. If you see forge fast expand. Take drones out of gas, take third, then put drones back in gas.


A fellow dutchmen









Hope i will be able to get the hang of the macro part of the Zerg game. In silver/gold en kinda-platinum you can win by just out-macroing your opponent.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Been so out of this game, sticking to LoL until HotS gets released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like that could be 5-7 months from now:
> 
> Polygon: StarCraft 2: Heart of the Swarm launching in 'first half 2013'
Click to expand...

Probably wont be able to play until then anyway xD

Been desperatly trying to find more GSL, can only find up to GSL 2012 S3. :c

Might start playing SC2 again though, its gonna be tough getting back into it.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> @ Snelan: I'm not a cheeser thank god
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate cheesing. I know its part of the game but i just don't see why someone would pull this crap. In the lower league it's the only thing some of the players do ... every game. And as soon as they encounter a decent opponent who can hold it off they have no clue what to follow it up with.


Then you sir, are on the road to GM


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Then you sir, are on the road to GM


Haha i dont know about that but tnx









Marine, SCV rushes. 6 pool. Cannon rushing. 2 rax etc ... its anoying to play against, since i do not have the skills to hold all of them off yet.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Haha i dont know about that but tnx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine, SCV rushes. 6 pool. Cannon rushing. 2 rax etc ... its anoying to play against, since i do not have the skills to hold all of them off yet.


True that, it takes all the fun off the game


----------



## FrankoNL

offtopic: How do you guys use a .gif as avatar? When i upload one my avatar just stays the same image as before.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> offtopic: How do you guys use a .gif as avatar? When i upload one my avatar just stays the same image as before.


You have to be careful with the size of the GIF, if it's too large as pixels or megabytes, it won't be applied.


----------



## FrankoNL

ahhhhh that's why.

Do you know the maximum size?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> ahhhhh that's why.
> 
> Do you know the maximum size?


~2Mb IRRC.

Used to be 40kb xD


----------



## FrankoNL

Just played my first 1v1 games .. lost like 7 ... won 2.

Need practice


----------



## coolmidgetqc




----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolmidgetqc*


Did he say practice? Truly eloquent and inspirational.


----------



## HarrisLam

can someone explain how the joke works? I don't....


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

After that they can explain sarcasm.


----------



## FrankoNL

Sheldon: Darn .... 8 out of 26 this week.

Btw: I am watching the lone star clash right now. Can someone explain why everybody loves Stephano so much? He's arrogant, he has nog respect for his opponents ... trashtalking them in-game, *****ing about them in te interviews ... He's just an ******* who is a disgrace for esports.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Sheldon: Darn .... 8 out of 26 this week.
> Btw: I am watching the lone star clash right now. Can someone explain why everybody loves Stephano so much? He's arrogant, he has nog respect for his opponents ... trashtalking them in-game, *****ing about them in te interviews ... He's just an ******* who is a disgrace for esports.
> Just my 2 cents.


My opinion of him is the same. + he's positively gay. Not that it's a bad thing, just an observation


----------



## FrankoNL

And you know what the worst part is? They accept it from him. In the interviews he is just being a douche and the guy or girl who does the interview just laughs and the audience starts applauding ..... its crazy.


----------



## HometownHero

And he plays zerg, so, yeah.









Only guy I can really tolerate from EG is Thorzain.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> And he plays zerg, so, yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only guy I can really tolerate from EG is Thorzain.


I like thorzain too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Just played my first 1v1 games .. lost like 7 ... won 2.
> Need practice


Keep it up!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> man, I wonder exactly how rusty I am in 1v1, I mean, anti you know how incompetent I was against your friend's harass last time
> it's just funny that a local commercial about a sexual-enhancement drug came out with a slogan (somewhere along the lines of) "however razor sharp the blade is, eventually some day it will rust"
> lolz


Hahaha i hear that. Im sooo bad. My terran is probably better than my zerg now. Haha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I will add you, but on what server do you play?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tnx for the advice btw!
> I found some great new Appollo tutorials on playing zerg, including the hotkey setup etc:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUalKWgB7Y ( part one of a four-part series)
> @ Snelan: I'm not a cheeser thank god
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate cheesing. I know its part of the game but i just don't see why someone would pull this crap. In the lower league it's the only thing some of the players do ... every game. And as soon as they encounter a decent opponent who can hold it off they have no clue what to follow it up with.


I play on NA. You are more than welcome also!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Nice write up, just on the fast third note. As P I defecate balls If I don't see a third at the 4:30 mark. 5 minutes is late. If you see forge fast expand. Take drones out of gas, take third, then put drones back in gas.


Yea, thx for mentioning that. I forgot to say that. Very important.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Honestly, I would just stay with the 15p 15h for P and Z, and the 15h 15p for T. That's how I learned (Anti taught me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and it worked fine. At those leagues it's (and even into masters) it's not always the opening that decides who is ahead. A better executed 14p 16h against a Terran will edge out a badly executed 15h 17p any day, and keep in mind that a 14p 16h is probably the worst opening against Terran.
> Also, remember that against an FFE (Forge Fast Expand) you can take your third a *little* bit before you are comfortable. This is because they will also be focusing mainly on econ too, so under normal circumstances, you should just see a stalker and a zealot to harass the third. Queendralisks and lings can clean that up. Keep in mind that most toss' (not saying you) like to try to pull stupid crap all the time to get free wins because they don't feel like doing their already-cheesy 2 base all in. So watch out for early voids if you see an early gas on the third (around 6-6:30 gas timing), or sometimes they will just not drone their nat and try a modified 4 gate.


I completely forgot about teaching you that. Doing so allows you to focus on learning hotkeys, macro management and micro managment improvments. Its actually a better idea. Cause once you learn those fundamentals the builds will be able to be picked up on the fly.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Just something random here...I have been following this thread for a few weeks. I've never played SC before and I just build my pc 2 weeks ago but have not had much spare time to play, just reading strats and watching a few replays and practicing AI skirmish 15 games until I could beat it on hard zvt lol.
Tonight I played my first online games in the lame practice league and went 4-1.

In my last match I had my opponent beat and he said "sigh* smurfs in PL." I thought he was just being mean and then he said "whats the matter? cant win in BL?" and surrendered.

So I looked up what smurf means and it's a compliment for a n00b like me hahaha!

What is BL though? I can't find that one...

And those stupid n00b maps with the rocks make the game really dumb. I'm gonna go get stomped in bronze league tomorrow









I wish OCN allowed uploading SC replay files so all could laugh at the n00b battle









Does anyone know of any good, free file uploading sites? I tried a couple before but they were junk.


----------



## IBooNI

Can you upload it to youtube and then link it?


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IBooNI*
> 
> Can you upload it to youtube and then link it?


I've never uploaded a youtube video before...will that work for a SC2 replay type file?

edit: nah, it just says that it is an unsupported file type. SC2 replay files are only like 30kb, is there a decent free file upload site I can upload it to?







I'll google a little more.

Edit 2: I figured it out!







Where's my cookie? mmmm...maple cookie. This is it...Battle of the n00bs!


----------



## 13321G4

You can also just rename it to .zip, or compress it to tar/zip and then upload it here. That's what I do.


----------



## burwij

For future reference, drop.sc is a pretty good way to upload replays. Liquidpedia has a gigantic list of alternative replay sites as well.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Just something random here...I have been following this thread for a few weeks. I've never played SC before and I just build my pc 2 weeks ago but have not had much spare time to play, just reading strats and watching a few replays and practicing AI skirmish 15 games until I could beat it on hard zvt lol.
> Tonight I played my first online games in the lame practice league and went 4-1.
> In my last match I had my opponent beat and he said "sigh* smurfs in PL." I thought he was just being mean and then he said "whats the matter? cant win in BL?" and surrendered.
> So I looked up what smurf means and it's a compliment for a n00b like me hahaha!
> What is BL though? I can't find that one...
> And those stupid n00b maps with the rocks make the game really dumb. I'm gonna go get stomped in bronze league tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish OCN allowed uploading SC replay files so all could laugh at the n00b battle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of any good, free file uploading sites? I tried a couple before but they were junk.


OMG do you play EU?

I'd love a few noob vs noob games







I often get stomped in bronze when I haven't practiced for months, so I need friendly environment to get back in shape. + of course all the fun of a balanced game


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> OMG do you play EU?
> I'd love a few noob vs noob games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I often get stomped in bronze when I haven't practiced for months, so I need friendly environment to get back in shape. + of course all the fun of a balanced game


Same for me, if you're on EU .. let me know









BTW:

Great news: Blizzard announced that global play will be possible in the near future.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/11/blizzard-announces-global-play-coming-to-starcraft-2-in-upcoming-patch/


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Same for me, if you're on EU .. let me know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW:
> Great news: Blizzard announced that global play will be possible in the near future.
> http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/11/blizzard-announces-global-play-coming-to-starcraft-2-in-upcoming-patch/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Same for me, if you're on EU .. let me know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW:
> Great news: Blizzard announced that global play will be possible in the near future.
> http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/11/blizzard-announces-global-play-coming-to-starcraft-2-in-upcoming-patch/


Great news. Yep, I'm EU, add me: Ronnin426850#2161

Will be playing later today, hope we can do a few matches together


----------



## FrankoNL

I won't be playing today. But i'm home tomorrow the entire day. So probably will be online then









EDIT: i tried to add you. But i can't type in the numbers in your playername.

Add me







Frenky #432


----------



## Yodums

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Sheldon: Darn .... 8 out of 26 this week.
> Btw: I am watching the lone star clash right now. Can someone explain why everybody loves Stephano so much? He's arrogant, he has nog respect for his opponents ... trashtalking them in-game, *****ing about them in te interviews ... He's just an ******* who is a disgrace for esports.
> Just my 2 cents.


I could be wrong, but his arrogance is something that's rather recent. Before Lonestar, I can't remember him calling out players before matches (e.g. His comments towards CranK) or having in-game comments like the Idra/Hydra one. That was really out of the blue to see. I've seen him drop some small talk here-and-there during chat, but nothing offensive.

To answer your question: People like him because he's the best foreigner and has been for a while, one of the best Zerg players in the world, and entertaining (streaming good music, good game play, smashing the KR ladder, getting drunk, getting arrested, etc.).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yodums*
> 
> I could be wrong, but his arrogance is something that's rather recent. Before Lonestar, I can't remember him calling out players before matches (e.g. His comments towards CranK) or having in-game comments like the Idra/Hydra one. That was really out of the blue to see. I've seen him drop some small talk here-and-there during chat, but nothing offensive.
> To answer your question: People like him because he's the best foreigner and has been for a while, one of the best Zerg players in the world, and entertaining (streaming good music, good game play, smashing the KR ladder, getting drunk, getting arrested, etc.).


Yea i never seen him do that before.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> What is BL though? I can't find that one...


since no one seemed to have answered, ill solve this one for you.

judging from the tone, BL most likely meant "bronze league", makes perfect sense in his flow

anyway, I admire your progress. You are certainly off to a very good start.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> You can also just rename it to .zip, or compress it to tar/zip and then upload it here. That's what I do.


Of course! It's embarrassing that I didn't think of that. Ah, it was late









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> For future reference, drop.sc is a pretty good way to upload replays. Liquidpedia has a gigantic list of alternative replay sites as well.


I knew there had to be something like that!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> OMG do you play EU?
> I'd love a few noob vs noob games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I often get stomped in bronze when I haven't practiced for months, so I need friendly environment to get back in shape. + of course all the fun of a balanced game


I'm so much of a n00b that I really don't know which server I play on! lol
I think it is probably NA though as I'm in Canada. I was just up late last night cause it is a stat holiday in Canada today.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Same for me, if you're on EU .. let me know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW:
> Great news: Blizzard announced that global play will be possible in the near future.
> http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/11/blizzard-announces-global-play-coming-to-starcraft-2-in-upcoming-patch/


I think I'm NA.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> since no one seemed to have answered, ill solve this one for you.
> judging from the tone, BL most likely meant "bronze league", makes perfect sense in his flow
> anyway, I admire your progress. You are certainly off to a very good start.


Yeah! I guess I'll try some bronze league out! I don't know if I have time today though.


----------



## Anti!!

Upload dem replays to drop.sc. it makes it easy to share.

I dont know why we all dont share more. It would help keep this thread lively. It seems we never watch one another replays. Haha


----------



## 13321G4

I never even watch my own replays xD


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Upload dem replays to drop.sc. it makes it easy to share.
> I dont know why we all dont share more. It would help keep this thread lively. It seems we never watch one another replays. Haha


+1


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Upload dem replays to drop.sc. it makes it easy to share.
> I dont know why we all dont share more. It would help keep this thread lively. It seems we never watch one another replays. Haha


man speaking of replays, i had a game roughly 2 days ago that i got so mad about it I almost wanted to post the replay even though I lost so horribly and _beached_ at my teammates at the end

it was a 4v4 in a map with 2-player bases. On my side it was 2 protosses. I didn't wall in and didn't spot a cannon rush coming. That guy started at the low ground so there was no way to save it once his probe got up the ramp.

I was building my core at the time and once I saw that, I cancelled my core and just focused on mining minerals and kept telling my teammates to relax, I'll recover just fine, they should go back to doing their own thing. My mentality as a protoss against cannon rush is that as long as he hasn't walled my base, I can just gather enough for an expand, and escape to somewhere else to restart my base with some help.

by the time the cannons reached my base, I had 1000 minerals, so I ordered all probes to move out and double expanded at our natural areas (which was close to all 4 players). Sounds neat right? With some luck I can probably get back to the top in the team as none of us had expanded so far.

So game went on for about 2 - 3 more minutes, my nexus were done, just when I started to mine the enemy army showed up, like 7 roaches 5 zealots and more. I pinged for help and guess what?

That was roughly 7-8minutes into the game, the guy that was originally next to me was scared of the cannons and built NOTHING but cannons as a counter, the 2 guys in the other base, well, 1 guy had like 7 marines but 3 rax with 2 tech lab 1 reactor, the other guy rushed void rays and had like 1.

how did those guys get to platinum was beyond me


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> man speaking of replays, i had a game roughly 2 days ago that i got so mad about it I almost wanted to post the replay even though I lost so horribly and _beached_ at my teammates at the end
> it was a 4v4 in a map with 2-player bases. On my side it was 2 protosses. I didn't wall in and didn't spot a cannon rush coming. That guy started at the low ground so there was no way to save it once his probe got up the ramp.
> I was building my core at the time and once I saw that, I cancelled my core and just focused on mining minerals and kept telling my teammates to relax, I'll recover just fine, they should go back to doing their own thing. My mentality as a protoss against cannon rush is that as long as he hasn't walled my base, I can just gather enough for an expand, and escape to somewhere else to restart my base with some help.
> by the time the cannons reached my base, I had 1000 minerals, so I ordered all probes to move out and double expanded at our natural areas (which was close to all 4 players). Sounds neat right? With some luck I can probably get back to the top in the team as none of us had expanded so far.
> So game went on for about 2 - 3 more minutes, my nexus were done, just when I started to mine the enemy army showed up, like 7 roaches 5 zealots and more. I pinged for help and guess what?
> That was roughly 7-8minutes into the game, the guy that was originally next to me was scared of the cannons and built NOTHING but cannons as a counter, the 2 guys in the other base, well, 1 guy had like 7 marines but 3 rax with 2 tech lab 1 reactor, the other guy rushed void rays and had like 1.
> how did those guys get to platinum was beyond me


Hahahahaha

Thats friggin hilarious!

I would fuss too. Hahahahahahahaha

Team plat is like silver and some gold 1v1 really.

I love the onez who chase one probe with all their probes and the cannon rusher just keeps going by the cannons he built. Lol


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Upload dem replays to drop.sc. it makes it easy to share.
> I dont know why we all dont share more. It would help keep this thread lively. It seems we never watch one another replays. Haha


Uploaded








http://drop.sc/274959

edit: Harrislam please upload that replay... I would like to see a cannon rush so that I can prepare for it!


----------



## Anti!!

At work now. Will watch later.

Also, i would love to see what lam had to say when he was fussing. Lol! Replay! replay! replay!


----------



## Sainesk

Awww yeah!







and pre-purchases are live now - 39.99 standard, 59.99 deluxe, collector's edition 79.99 and retail only I think.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Nice! Any release date info? The difference between standard and deluxe?

Googled to http://www.amazon.com/forum/video%20games/Tx3O9ILFNA622OO
"you'll also have the option to upgrade a Standard Edition to the Digital Deluxe Edition, which comes equipped with all the in-game content from the physical Collector's Edition, including a Torrasque skin for your zerg Ultralisks in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, unique Swarm-infested portraits for your StarCraft II character profile, a Baneling pet for your World of Warcraft® characters, and a set of zerg-ified blade wings for your heroes in Diablo® III."

Ya I think I'll go Standard.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Also, i would love to see what lam had to say when he was fussing. Lol! Replay! replay! replay!


^ this.

We need to start a HLam post his funny replay petition or club or something lol


----------



## lapengu

Cant wait for this! Need to get out of platinum in WoL though still.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Nice! Any release date info? The difference between standard and deluxe?
> Googled to http://www.amazon.com/forum/video%20games/Tx3O9ILFNA622OO
> "you'll also have the option to upgrade a Standard Edition to the Digital Deluxe Edition, which comes equipped with all the in-game content from the physical Collector's Edition, including a Torrasque skin for your zerg Ultralisks in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, unique Swarm-infested portraits for your StarCraft II character profile, a Baneling pet for your World of Warcraft® characters, and a set of zerg-ified blade wings for your heroes in Diablo® III."
> Ya I think I'll go Standard.


lol







*All* that, for *only* 20$ over standard!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Nice! Any release date info? The difference between standard and deluxe?
> Googled to http://www.amazon.com/forum/video%20games/Tx3O9ILFNA622OO
> "you'll also have the option to upgrade a Standard Edition to the Digital Deluxe Edition, which comes equipped with all the in-game content from the physical Collector's Edition, including a Torrasque skin for your zerg Ultralisks in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, unique Swarm-infested portraits for your StarCraft II character profile, a Baneling pet for your World of Warcraft® characters, and a set of zerg-ified blade wings for your heroes in Diablo® III."
> Ya I think I'll go Standard.


March 12, 2013 like it says in the pic









and yea, deluxe comes with the in game bonuses - 3 portraits and decals, and the ultralisk skin (+WoW/D3 content); collectors comes with all that and an art book, behind the scenes dvds/blu-rays, a zerg rush mousepad, and soundtrack cd.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Pre-ordering on Amazon also get's you the beta key now.


----------



## QuadDamage

I might pull the trigger now to get the beta key


----------



## Tralala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *All* that, for *only* 20$ over standard!


ya cause I use ultras SO often in MP


----------



## Anti!!

I know i do in zvz


----------



## HarrisLam

The day a higher-than-standard edition of SC includes a bad ass zerg T-shirt (that doesn't get all washed out in like all of 3 laundries), or maybe T-shirt with the Zerg logo coated with purple / silver coating is the day I'll consider buying it

ANNNNNNNNNNND here is the replay guys!!

http://drop.sc/275415

I'm a day late because Bnet was in maintenance yesterday in the time frame of my internet time or something. I actually went back and watched it myself today, and I'm amazed that my numbers were actually fairly accurate when I first said it here on the last page, and it was almost funnier than I thought.

I suggest following my camera for maximum humor. But whatever you do, waaaaaatever you do PLEASE do NOT turn on the APM tab.

PLEEEEEEEEEASE LOL


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> The day a higher-than-standard edition of SC includes a bad ass zerg T-shirt (that doesn't get all washed out in like all of 3 laundries), or maybe T-shirt with the Zerg logo coated with purple / silver coating is the day I'll consider buying it
> ANNNNNNNNNNND here is the replay guys!!
> http://drop.sc/275415
> I'm a day late because Bnet was in maintenance yesterday in the time frame of my internet time or something. I actually went back and watched it myself today, and I'm amazed that my numbers were actually fairly accurate when I first said it here on the last page, and it was almost funnier than I thought.
> I suggest following my camera for maximum humor. But whatever you do, waaaaaatever you do PLEASE do NOT turn on the APM tab.
> PLEEEEEEEEEASE LOL


hahahahahah.

I hope i get time to watch it this evening. Work has been great lately.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> ANNNNNNNNNNND here is the replay guys!!
> http://drop.sc/275415


I look forward to watching this!

I was 1v1 a friend today and it was dismal n00bdom on my part. I will post but I'm gone for a couple days.
I just forget to build units and don't know how to crack a turtle Terran with Zerg then he comes out with Thors and it's gg.


----------



## GoodbyeGalaxy

Anyone want to play HOTS beta? I need some good 1v1 practice with the new units. Ladder seems a bit wonky right now with the fewer amount of players on it. High Diamond in WOL, feel free to add me:

Nefarious.679


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> I might pull the trigger now to get the beta key


I did.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I know i do in zvz


I used to use them in Z v T too, as a tech switch when they overcommited to countering BL, and in Z v P for the no moar forcefields. Hard to get to sure but still usable if you make it that deep into a game.

Then again i've not played for 6 months + longer than that if you mean seriously and I was mid diamond random so what do i know?









Pre ordering now gets me beta access? mmm nom nom does it have to be on amazon or can i just get the digital version from blizz? i dont even have a ODD on my pc anymore so a physical copy seems a bit pointless.


----------



## Sainesk

with their new abilities i'm sure Ultras will see a ton more play in HOTS:






can't wait to see some of the pros micro ultras popping out everywhere...









also, why are the Canadian retailers so slow at taking my money - I want to pre-order a physical copy


----------



## HometownHero

^^ Looking at the new zerg units and abilities just makes me bitter to be a terran.

Ultras are going to be pretty sick with that burrow charge. Breaking siege lines comes to mind.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> ^^ Looking at the new zerg units and abilities just makes me bitter to be a terran.
> Ultras are going to be pretty sick with that burrow charge. Breaking siege lines comes to mind.


I believe HOTS will turn out to be terran's game


----------



## HometownHero

Haha, why is that?


----------



## HarrisLam

blinking ultras?

BRB learning zerg now


----------



## audioxbliss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I believe HOTS will turn out to be terran's game


Haven't gotten a chance to play, but I believe it's going to become more of Zerg's game... Zerg got some great midgame power with Swarm Hosts and Vipers, which is something they were lacking. Terran gained Hellbats and Widow Mines, but neither of those really change the core of Terran's gameplay, namely a Marine and/or Marauder based foundation (most of the time). Same goes with Protoss, having gained the Oracle and Tempest, which are basically just support for the Protoss death ball. Granted, all three races will see a change in gameplay, but I think Zerg's will be more profound and noticeable than the other two, with a dramatic shift in focus from Mutalisks to Swarm Hosts in midgame.

Of course, this is all speculation until we start seeing real results


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audioxbliss*
> 
> Haven't gotten a chance to play, but I believe it's going to become more of Zerg's game... Zerg got some great midgame power with Swarm Hosts and Vipers, which is something they were lacking. Terran gained Hellbats and Widow Mines, but neither of those really change the core of Terran's gameplay, namely a Marine and/or Marauder based foundation (most of the time). Same goes with Protoss, having gained the Oracle and Tempest, which are basically just support for the Protoss death ball. Granted, all three races will see a change in gameplay, but I think Zerg's will be more profound and noticeable than the other two, with a dramatic shift in focus from Mutalisks to Swarm Hosts in midgame.
> Of course, this is all speculation until we start seeing real results


Im gonna have to re learn the meta again. Im gonna have to relearn zerg. Lolzz


----------



## TranquilTempest

I preordered, should get my beta key in a couple days.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I preordered, should get my beta key in a couple days.


On amazon?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Im gonna have to re learn the meta again. Im gonna have to relearn zerg. Lolzz


That's why I play random







only thing i'll have to learn is the new units/abilities...

...and not being bad. Foreverneverpro


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Im gonna have to re learn the meta again. Im gonna have to relearn zerg. Lolzz


You and me both. No idea what the meta is for TvP right now.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> On amazon?


Yeah.


----------



## HarrisLam

http://drop.sc/276177

one of the best game ive played.

not that ive played really well, but the game itself was awesome, tide turned multiple times, I had NO pylons, bases or probes whatsoever in the game for the last 15 minutes


----------



## Alex132

They are basically adding tons of REALLY strong abilities to each race.

Oracles are very strong in Protoss against Zerg.
Spider mines (or w.e theyre called) are EXTREMELY strong against protoss (160dmg = 1 stalker and they target air too = gg observer)
Zerg, well, ALL STRONK THE UNITS!









Will be interesting to see how it all balances out. Still gonna be playing Protoss/Zerg as my mains


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You and me both. No idea what the meta is for TvP right now.


Yep lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> That's why I play random
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only thing i'll have to learn is the new units/abilities...
> 
> ...and not being bad. Foreverneverpro


I know how you feel lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> http://drop.sc/276177
> one of the best game ive played.
> not that ive played really well, but the game itself was awesome, tide turned multiple times, I had NO pylons, bases or probes whatsoever in the game for the last 15 minutes


harris. I been working long hours this week or else i would have watched the replays already. I wwwwwiiiiiiiiilllllllllll try to watch them. Maybe tonight.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yep lol.
> 
> I know how you feel lol
> harris. I been working long hours this week or else i would have watched the replays already. I wwwwwiiiiiiiiilllllllllll try to watch them. Maybe tonight.


Take your time bro, we all got stuff we gotta do









I took sick leave today though, cuz I got too many of them


----------



## Anti!!

Hahaha


----------



## Dr216

Like the idea of more Z strength in the mid game I've always felt midgame zerg was a very wierd transition, especially if you want to explore other options than muta.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Like the idea of more Z strength in the mid game I've always felt midgame zerg was a very wierd transition, especially if you want to explore other options than muta.


More Z strength in any part of the game is not the least justified. Z wins left and right already. We'll see how it will all turn out to be


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dr216*
> 
> Like the idea of more Z strength in the mid game I've always felt midgame zerg was a very wierd transition, especially if you want to explore other options than muta.
> 
> 
> 
> More Z strength in any part of the game is not the least justified. Z wins left and right already. We'll see how it will all turn out to be
Click to expand...

IMO Zerg is currently the strongest race in the game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> IMO Zerg is currently the strongest race in the game.


Hi, can I add you?







What's your tag?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Uploaded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/274959
> edit: Harrislam please upload that replay... I would like to see a cannon rush so that I can prepare for it!


Dude gets mad at you for smurfin PL? lol He was warp prism microing, and microing his stalkers. lol What a hypocrite. haha

Next time dont make gas, and evo before hatch. lol If you pool first its ok, but you wont need gas for a bit if you queen up a bit. ALso never queue up your queens on one hatchery to be built. Always make 1 in each hatch if you need to make more than one at a given time. That money can be spent well somewhere else.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> http://drop.sc/276177
> one of the best game ive played.
> not that ive played really well, but the game itself was awesome, tide turned multiple times, I had NO pylons, bases or probes whatsoever in the game for the last 15 minutes


HAHAHA guy talkin trash and dies! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> The day a higher-than-standard edition of SC includes a bad ass zerg T-shirt (that doesn't get all washed out in like all of 3 laundries), or maybe T-shirt with the Zerg logo coated with purple / silver coating is the day I'll consider buying it
> ANNNNNNNNNNND here is the replay guys!!
> http://drop.sc/275415
> I'm a day late because Bnet was in maintenance yesterday in the time frame of my internet time or something. I actually went back and watched it myself today, and I'm amazed that my numbers were actually fairly accurate when I first said it here on the last page, and it was almost funnier than I thought.
> I suggest following my camera for maximum humor. But whatever you do, waaaaaatever you do PLEASE do NOT turn on the APM tab.
> PLEEEEEEEEEASE LOL


LOL they called you nooob. lol What were they doin?! lol

Well, here is a crappy toss game i played. I decided to naniwa warp prism harrass. lol (Of course I blow!!!)

http://drop.sc/276460


----------



## ronnin426850

LOL Did you see that Stephano is OUT of the world finals??
Wow, he had it coming! My only regret is that he didn't lose to Terran, but we all know that's next to impossible


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> LOL Did you see that Stephano is OUT of the world finals??
> Wow, he had it coming! My only regret is that he didn't lose to Terran, but we all know that's next to impossible


All be it that you may hate him he is probably the best chance we had at a foreigner winning the championship.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> All be it that you may hate him he is probably the best chance we had at a foreigner winning the championship.


They're all foreign to me









edit: I'd rather have Lucifron on the final







He's a nice guy.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> They're all foreign to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I'd rather have Lucifron on the final
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a nice guy.


Hey Ronnin, do you mean that they are all foreign because they are not from your home country? Cause I understand foreign to mean "non-Korean"









Or are you meaning that nationalism is garbage and we are all just people, in which case I completely agree.


----------



## TranquilTempest

In Starcraft, foreigner = not korean, regardless of where the event is.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Hey Ronnin, do you mean that they are all foreign because they are not from your home country? Cause I understand foreign to mean "non-Korean"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or are you meaning that nationalism is garbage and we are all just people, in which case I completely agree.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Yeah.


YOu got your key yet?

EDIT!!!!

This is a leet 3v3 haha

http://drop.sc/276838

*Watch it*


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> YOu got your key yet?
> EDIT!!!!
> This is a leet 3v3 haha
> http://drop.sc/276838


Yeah I got my beta key. I've been playing random. Got placed in gold, then it took me about 30 games to get to Diamond. If anyone wants to do some practice/training in HOTS, SoulWager 712.


----------



## HarrisLam

I'll see if I have time to watch some of your replays Anti, I haven't gotten any games in these days. Everyday is just work, go home, have late night dinner and go to bed soon after. Didn't even play anything this weekend. Family events everywhere. When I get the time, I play SC2, log on GW2 to admire the face of my character for a while. Meanwhile all my single player steam games are rotting in the closet.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> In Starcraft, foreigner = not *Terran*, regardless of where the event is.


Fixed


----------



## HometownHero

If you end up getting a HoTS beta key, dont forget to go to the overclock.net chat room!

Also, Windows 8 won't let me open that rep that Anti posted, anyone know how to get around that?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> If you end up getting a HoTS beta key, dont forget to go to the overclock.net chat room!
> Also, Windows 8 won't let me open that rep that Anti posted, anyone know how to get around that?


Move it to "My Documents \ StarCraft II \ Accounts \ *accountFolder* \ *other random numbers forlder* \ Replays \ Multiplayer" and open it from within SC2. Just start the game, log in, and click on the Replay button in the upper-left corner (looks like a video camera). Then navigate to the specific replay and hit Load (or Play or whatever







)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Move it to "My Documents \ StarCraft II \ Accounts \ *accountFolder* \ *other random numbers forlder* \ Replays \ Multiplayer" and open it from within SC2. Just start the game, log in, and click on the Replay button in the upper-left corner (looks like a video camera). Then navigate to the specific replay and hit Load (or Play or whatever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


This

That is the only way i have ever done it really. Just like the Sc1 days.


----------



## ronnin426850

Just won alone in TvTP. Wow was that something...


----------



## audioxbliss

Argh, stupid midterms have been stopping be from playing. Managed to get a few games in... I'm really liking Stalker + Tempest for a basic combo, especially in PvP. Had one game where my opponent went mass immos to counter my stalkers... and I just kited them while my Tempests slowly wore them down and a couple voids slowly took down his base. He was not very good.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Just won alone in TvTP. Wow was that something...


Yea, i beat some peeps in a 1v4 once in a monobattles. lol roaches roaches roaches. Very rewarding.


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, in order to have 2 characters to play with (but not at the same time, just switch them over), do you have to buy the game twice?









Also, can I have one full version and one Starter Edition at the same time? Anyone got a clue?


----------



## sratra

Have you guys seen this? Stephano being his usual self


----------



## CravinR1

He looks like he has a seizure and he looks like he's afraid to touch that girl with a 10 foot pole (though she was cute looking)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sratra*
> 
> Have you guys seen this? Stephano being his usual self


Aaah, so that's how it looks to be a homosexual under the influence of alcohol and at least 2 different drugs








No offense towards homosexuals.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Aaah, so that's how it looks to be a homosexual under the influence of alcohol and at least 2 different drugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense towards homosexuals.


What a nerd..

welp. he is done in my eyes.. lol


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What a nerd..
> welp. he is done in my eyes.. lol


He was overrated and too cocky, kind of like Idra. (Yeah I know he did ok at BWC). Seems like some recent pros get a little too full of themselves for tearing up the NA ladder; that doesn't really mean much.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> He was overrated and too cocky, kind of like Idra. (Yeah I know he did ok at BWC). Seems like some recent pros get a little too full of themselves for tearing up the NA ladder; that doesn't really mean much.


Agreed.


----------



## Sainesk

In case anyone doesn't already have Wings of Liberty it's currently on sale for $19.99...









http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=p:1100002016,p:1100001122


----------



## DoomDash

Should I play random in HoTS? I don't know







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Should I play random in HoTS? I don't know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


yes, super yes.

It brings back the fun.

Crap, it just helps so much all around.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Should I play random in HoTS? I don't know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I'd say yes. It's not like you'll have to learn new units if you go back to terran. Zerg and Protoss got some serious changes; playing them is going to be the best way to get a feel for them.


----------



## ronnin426850

Ok, wait a min, I need some clarification.

What happens to Wings of Liberty after the release of HotS?
Will there be any changes?
I remember back in the WC3 days (applies to D2 as well), the ballance changes of TFT were added to RoC as a patch. Will that happen in SC2, or will WoL remain absolutely the same, with all the changes reserved for HotS?

Also, do you think there will still be people playing WoL after the release?

Also, will i be able to have a Starter Edition HotS as well as a regular WoL?


----------



## Alex132

When is the region unlock happening?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, wait a min, I need some clarification.
> What happens to Wings of Liberty after the release of HotS?
> Will there be any changes?
> I remember back in the WC3 days (applies to D2 as well), the ballance changes of TFT were added to RoC as a patch. Will that happen in SC2, or will WoL remain absolutely the same, with all the changes reserved for HotS?
> Also, do you think there will still be people playing WoL after the release?
> Also, will i be able to have a Starter Edition HotS as well as a regular WoL?


I think they'll stop balance patches for WOL (since they'll have to focus balancing the game with the new units for the majority of the playerbase) and only do a few more minor changes I reckon. Like possibly the region unlocking unless they wanted to use it as an incentive to make people buy HOTS. WOL population will go down. I haven't even heard of a HOTS starter edition, but if they do make one I don't see why you couldn't.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> When is the region unlock happening?


They said in a couple of months so i'd assume it'll come with HOTS... (what a waste of my Korean accounts and guide to make them







). It'll be nice though, we'll finally be able to all play together.


----------



## QuadDamage

Anyone know if you still buy hots u get the key?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I think they'll stop balance patches for WOL (since they'll have to focus balancing the game with the new units for the majority of the playerbase) and only do a few more minor changes I reckon. Like possibly the region unlocking unless they wanted to use it as an incentive to make people buy HOTS. WOL population will go down. I haven't even heard of a HOTS starter edition, but if they do make one I don't see why you couldn't.
> 
> They said in a couple of months so i'd assume it'll come with HOTS... (what a waste of my Korean accounts and guide to make them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). It'll be nice though, we'll finally be able to all play together.


I hope that's not the case. I mean, with D2 and WC3, patches for the original and the exp always go hand in hand, I can only hope it will be the same for WoL..







Thanks


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuadDamage*
> 
> Anyone know if you still buy hots u get the key?


Apparently Amazon ran out of keys at some point and they removed all mention of beta access from the HOTS product page. With that being said, there's a post in the "customer discussions" at the bottom of the page that says the following:
Quote:


> I just spoke with a C.R. again and they were a bit more specific after I asked a few questions:
> 
> AMAZONREP: I'm sorry that you didn't receive the codes for
> for beta access to the game
> we're working to obtain more codes from Blizzard.
> Orders purchased prior to November 17, 2012 should've already received the code."
> Me: so it is coming and be patient, correct?
> AMAZONREP: Orders on or after that date will be sent a code once we receive more, even though it wasn't advertised at the time of their order.
> Yes, .


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, wait a min, I need some clarification.
> What happens to Wings of Liberty after the release of HotS?
> Will there be any changes?
> I remember back in the WC3 days (applies to D2 as well), the ballance changes of TFT were added to RoC as a patch. Will that happen in SC2, or will WoL remain absolutely the same, with all the changes reserved for HotS?
> Also, do you think there will still be people playing WoL after the release?
> Also, will i be able to have a Starter Edition HotS as well as a regular WoL?


They probably will do like they did with sc and sc: Bw.

You could chose which version you wanted to play and they had their own balances.

My personal experience was people still played both and it was enough to not have problems finding a game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Was LucifroN again matched against his brother on purpose?.. That's so LAME! Let them both progress, god damn it!


----------



## FrankoNL

Hmmm i don't think so. And even if they did, they will not admit it.


----------



## poroboszcz

Just pre-ordered hots from game.co.uk. Waiting for the beta key, so I'll have another game I don't have a time to play.
Is the cross-region play enabled in the beta?


----------



## HarrisLam

i just wish the game comes out at least with the same regional config as WoL, ie SEA accounts get a free US account.


----------



## Anti!!

Welp, decided to start up playing 1v1 again.

6 win 2 losses not to bad to start out. Especially as rusty as I am.


----------



## FrankoNL

The day before yesterday i won 6 games and lost 1. yesterday i lost 3 and won 1 ....

Sometimes life just throws you a curve ball









PS. Went back to P btw. Z is just not for me.

What would be a good opener against terran? Gateway - robo fast expand?


----------



## ronnin426850

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJgl6HU5VA


----------



## ronnin426850

Another good day when 6 surprise battlecruisers in opponent's rear save my hide in TvT


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Another good day when 6 surprise battlecruisers in opponent's rear save my hide in TvT


Replay please


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Replay please


Do you really want it? It's bronze









edit: In addition to being bronze, it's my Worst Game Ever. It's a miracle I won... Lost tons of marines to just static siege tank fire, lost half my base to mid-game reaper rush, then lost my entire base to a MMM drop


----------



## QuadDamage

I got HOTS give me your Codes

My old WOL is QuadDamage 454
not sure of my HOTS

Same Name QuadDamage tho
I'm already plat in ladder 9 and 2 so far


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Do you really want it? It's bronze
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: In addition to being bronze, it's my Worst Game Ever. It's a miracle I won... Lost tons of marines to just static siege tank fire, lost half my base to mid-game reaper rush, then lost my entire base to a MMM drop


Yes I do!
I am n00b bronze (wood league?) and have never seen a BC in multiplayer


----------



## Anti!!

Just got my HoTS beta key from amazon!!

Now i just need to get back into the state so i can install it on my pc.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Yes I do!
> I am n00b bronze (wood league?) and have never seen a BC in multiplayer


O-kay..







Here you go, 2 replays from me, both have some Battlecruiser action.

FIRST. I want to be clear that these are two very poorly played games







That's totally not how I play on a good day







If you can learn something from them - great. But don't try to do my builds because they suck. Every time I win, it's because of my timing. My micro, macro and overall control are quite bad, also I rarely know exactly how I should respond to a situation.

So have fun with the replays, and I hope soon we can play together







Can't wait for global!

Replays.zip 124k .zip file


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> O-kay..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go, 2 replays from me, both have some Battlecruiser action.
> FIRST. I want to be clear that these are two very poorly played games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's totally not how I play on a good day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can learn something from them - great. But don't try to do my builds because they suck. Every time I win, it's because of my timing. My micro, macro and overall control are quite bad, also I rarely know exactly how I should respond to a situation.
> So have fun with the replays, and I hope soon we can play together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait for global!
> 
> Replays.zip 124k .zip file


Awesome! Will watch tomorrow morning







I agree on the global!


----------



## GarTheConquer

Those were awesome to watch! I've never watched a TvT before. I've only played as Zerg so far but BC's are sweet!
I need to try out some BL + Corruptor + Infestor online I guess, if I can survive that long


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Those were awesome to watch! I've never watched a TvT before. I've only played as Zerg so far but BC's are sweet!
> I need to try out some BL + Corruptor + Infestor online I guess, if I can survive that long


The only thing BCs are currently good at is busting the enemy's backdoor AAs with the Yamato from out of range, and then quickly killing workers and main base. It's a psychology-crippling attack









Otherwise they are useless in combat. Low HP, low DPS, low movement and attack speed (can't move along with the rest of the force)..

I really live for the day when battlecruisers will live up to their name







Right now they are just fat banshees with a pew-pew gun. Quite far from this awesomeness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0RiDJl9Cc


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Otherwise they are useless in combat. Low HP, low DPS, low movement and attack speed (can't move along with the rest of the force)..
> I really live for the day when battlecruisers will live up to their name
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now they are just fat banshees with a pew-pew gun. Quite far from this awesomeness:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0RiDJl9Cc


I used to do a fast BC with upgraded armor rush which was really fun. If I remember correctly I started the upgrade before the cruiser, and it worked very nicely as long as they didn't have too many bunkers or vikings (the armor turns marines and thors into a joke), the first one does serious damage and by the time the second got there it was GG (though I had to be careful sometimes to keep the first behind the second if they were still fighting); that or it failed miserably sometimes







. Main prob with it was it was risky since I had to always scout to make sure they weren't going to show up in my base before the first ones out, and then panic and buy time if they were







. Bringing a few SCVs for repair doesn't hurt either.

I hope it becomes a bit more viable with the HOTS changes though...


----------



## GarTheConquer

Were BCs a lot better in SC1 and SC:BW?

That video makes the SC2 BCs look like junk in comparison!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> Were BCs a lot better in SC1 and SC:BW?
> That video makes the SC2 BCs look like junk in comparison!


No, in fact I think they were even worse, for the little time I played SC 1 - again not powerful enough, but also their models were like twice smaller than in Sc2, which made them a complete joke








Yeah, pretty awesome video. I used parts of it in my own little tribute, don't know if you saw it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJgl6HU5VA


----------



## Anti!!

My HOTS name is RaGinNyDus 843


----------



## ronnin426850

Just got my first ever promotion! Yay! I'm now silver 2v2


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Welp, decided to start up playing 1v1 again.
> 6 win 2 losses not to bad to start out. Especially as rusty as I am.


What???? Do my eyes deceive me?

Welcome back







Are you laddering as protoss or zerg?

Also, if you get a HoTS code, dont forgot to go to the Overclock.net chatroom, I've been lonely...


----------



## ronnin426850

Um, ok, I need someone to help me counter roaches as Terran.
I've read on several places and people who say Banshee are out of their minds. Banshees are very hard to tech to and are available waaaay later than roaches.

So, other options. Unit composition, tactics, anything useful against early roach rush. Thanks


----------



## HometownHero

delete


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Um, ok, I need someone to help me counter roaches as Terran.
> I've read on several places and people who say Banshee are out of their minds. Banshees are very hard to tech to and are available waaaay later than roaches.
> So, other options. Unit composition, tactics, anything useful against early roach rush. Thanks


Ok, you have a few options. Depending on how good your scouting is, you can tech accordingly depending on what path your are going.

If you open up with reactor hellions into banshee, you can actually do fine with the banshee as long as you pull probes to repair.

If you open up reactor hellions (for mech), you can stop producing hellions at 2-6 to swap for a tech lab to get siege tech out earlier. But continue hellion production in the near future with your second factory.

If you open up bio, you can start maurader production off of your tech lab rax.

Some pros dont really even "counter" roaches and opt to just use the rines in their base w/ optional bunker and scv pull.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Ok, you have a few options. Depending on how good your scouting is, you can tech accordingly depending on what path your are going.
> If you open up with reactor hellions into banshee, you can actually do fine with the banshee as long as you pull probes to repair.
> If you open up reactor hellions (for mech), you can stop producing hellions at 2-6 to swap for a tech lab to get siege tech out earlier. But continue hellion production in the near future with your second factory.
> If you open up bio, you can start maurader production off of your tech lab rax.
> Some pros dont really even "counter" roaches and opt to just use the rines in their base w/ optional bunker and scv pull.


I don't think that's gonna work really...

*Marauder*
Cost: 100M 25G
Damage: 10 (13)
HP: 125
Build time: 30 sec

*Roach*
Cost: 75M 25G
Damage: 16 (22)
HP: 145
Build time: 27 sec

Definitely can't counter roach with marauders..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> What???? Do my eyes deceive me?
> Welcome back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you laddering as protoss or zerg?
> Also, if you get a HoTS code, dont forgot to go to the Overclock.net chatroom, I've been lonely...


Hots is 843

Wol is 411

Im zerg.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't think that's gonna work really...
> *Marauder*
> Cost: 100M 25G
> Damage: 10 (13)
> HP: 125
> Build time: 30 sec
> *Roach*
> Cost: 75M 25G
> Damage: 16 (22)
> HP: 145
> Build time: 27 sec
> Definitely can't counter roach with marauders..


My buddy walls off his natural and puts seige tanks there. I dunno if that actually works though, I was mega-n00b when I last played him


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't think that's gonna work really...
> *Marauder*
> Cost: 100M 25G
> Damage: 10 (13)
> HP: 125
> Build time: 30 sec
> *Roach*
> Cost: 75M 25G
> Damage: 16 (22)
> HP: 145
> Build time: 27 sec
> Definitely can't counter roach with marauders..


DPS matters more than damage. Additionally, marauders have bonus damage against armored units, better range, concussive shells, and stim. Upgraded marauders will tear through roaches, especially if you use a little bit of micro to kite them.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't think that's gonna work really...
> *Marauder*
> Cost: 100M 25G
> Damage: 10 (13)
> HP: 125
> Build time: 30 sec
> *Roach*
> Cost: 75M 25G
> Damage: 16 (22)
> HP: 145
> Build time: 27 sec
> Definitely can't counter roach with marauders..


Oh yes you can. Also marauders do 25 damage vs armored. Which a roach is armored. With stim and concusive shells Marauders PWN roaches. I have a suggestion, if you ask for advice, and it comes from a player 3 leagues above you. Take it as gold lol.

But to be honest, if you have enough marines behind your fast expand you will be fine. You just have to scout to see if the zerg is expanding early, or doing a 1 base all in.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Um, ok, I need someone to help me counter roaches as Terran.
> I've read on several places and people who say Banshee are out of their minds. Banshees are very hard to tech to and are available waaaay later than roaches.
> So, other options. Unit composition, tactics, anything useful against early roach rush. Thanks


What do you mean, counter roaches? Roaches have a pretty situational use in TvZ, especially because BIO+Medivacs counter Roaches so, so hard. Roaches are only used to try to punish a Terran being greedy (going 3cc with light defence) or doing a heavy roach ling bane bust to punish Terran getting a late siege mode or losing his hellions.

Otherwise, bad Zergs will use Roaches to zone out hellions to prevent you from slowing down his creep or killing his drones. Good zergs will just use Queens, which are better at it anyway.

If someone is beating you with roach or roach hydra, you're probably getting seriously outmacro'd. Marines, Marauders, Medivacs and upgrades demolish roaches. As does a max marine tank or mech army(must be sieged though. If you're caught unsieged you deserve to lose that army).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> What do you mean, counter roaches? Roaches have a pretty situational use in TvZ, especially because BIO+Medivacs counter Roaches so, so hard. Roaches are only used to try to punish a Terran being greedy (going 3cc with light defence) or doing a heavy roach ling bane bust to punish Terran getting a late siege mode or losing his hellions.
> Otherwise, bad Zergs will use Roaches to zone out hellions to prevent you from slowing down his creep or killing his drones. Good zergs will just use Queens, which are better at it anyway.
> If someone is beating you with roach or roach hydra, you're probably getting seriously outmacro'd. Marines, Marauders, Medivacs and upgrades demolish roaches. As does a max marine tank or mech army(must be sieged though. If you're caught unsieged you deserve to lose that army).


Ok, then please tell me what did I do wrong here:

Scorched Haven TPvTZ loss.zip 40k .zip file


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> What do you mean, counter roaches? Roaches have a pretty situational use in TvZ, especially because BIO+Medivacs counter Roaches so, so hard. Roaches are only used to try to punish a Terran being greedy (going 3cc with light defence) or doing a heavy roach ling bane bust to punish Terran getting a late siege mode or losing his hellions.
> Otherwise, bad Zergs will use Roaches to zone out hellions to prevent you from slowing down his creep or killing his drones. Good zergs will just use Queens, which are better at it anyway.
> If someone is beating you with roach or roach hydra, you're probably getting seriously outmacro'd. Marines, Marauders, Medivacs and upgrades demolish roaches. As does a max marine tank or mech army(must be sieged though. If you're caught unsieged you deserve to lose that army).


So so so true. Haha


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, then please tell me what did I do wrong here:
> 
> Scorched Haven TPvTZ loss.zip 40k .zip file


Ok, so I watched your replay and the largest mistake you made was having 1.2k minerals when they attacked. It looked like you were trying to go 2x ebay upgrades, which is fine, but you only had one refinery for a few minutes resulting in lots of mins and no gas.

What you could do is one rax expand next time, you you would drop 1 rax and then your cc, and then 2 more rax, and then gas as necessary depending on what you're going for.

Also, when you get that map and you want to block mid, drop a bunker in the middle instead of that 2nd rax: keeps them guessing on your composition and will help you hold those big all-ins.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, then please tell me what did I do wrong here:
> 
> Scorched Haven TPvTZ loss.zip 40k .zip file


You're bronze right?

Probably your macro.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Ok, so I watched your replay and the largest mistake you made was having 1.2k minerals when they attacked. It looked like you were trying to go 2x ebay upgrades, which is fine, but you only had one refinery for a few minutes resulting in lots of mins and no gas.
> What you could do is one rax expand next time, you you would drop 1 rax and then your cc, and then 2 more rax, and then gas as necessary depending on what you're going for.
> Also, when you get that map and you want to block mid, drop a bunker in the middle instead of that 2nd rax: keeps them guessing on your composition and will help you hold those big all-ins.


Not criticizing your suggestions here, I know all pros fast expand anyway, so that's definitely the real way to go. But it's kind of ideal. My point is that he might not execute it very well. Fast expand is a pretty ambigious idea for lower league players.

As lower league players, we don't use standard timings, all we really know is depot at 10 and barracks at 12. If we fast expand with 1 rax, that means if we forget to build a marine after the first one we might lose, if we forgot to land the command center on the natural after building (lets say because we got harassed), then we lost 400 minerals we could have had somewhere else. 2 CCs are also harder to control than 1. When he can finally follow the strat well, 1 rax expand and bunker, and when the all in attack really comes, can he not panic, pull SCV repair and keep building marines while all that is going on?

Just saying though, cuz I had personal experience about this. Like 9 months back when I played Yukss, I had always fast expanded as terran, and he had always 1 base immortal pushed as protoss, and IIRC I only won the first game. Now, its true that Yukss is a plat player (or was, gold / plat), but I also wasn't bronze. I also played my other friend, who just got back to the game and was really rusty(also protoss, also 1 base pushes), I still lost 3 games in a row, or something. The strat isn't hard to execute, but when facing a 1 base attack, you are bound to have less army than your opponent, and how you can survive that major blow isn't even Gold material in my opinion (it's higher than that)

@ron : that said, it is a good strat to be practising with, just be prepared to panic with limited army a lot


----------



## Twistacles

Yeah you don't need to FE until like Dia~ maybe? Until then you can make 1 base pushes work. Just pick a good one for each matchup and go for it.

If you're P, 4gate everything
if you're T 3 rax everything if youre new, 1-1-1 everything once you get a bit better
if you're Z s dddddddddddddd


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Yeah you don't need to FE until like Dia~ maybe? Until then you can make 1 base pushes work. Just pick a good one for each matchup and go for it.
> If you're P, 4gate everything
> if you're T 3 rax everything if youre new, 1-1-1 everything once you get a bit better
> if you're Z s dddddddddddddd


That;s what i usually do in 1v1 - real late expand, I make a mass of SCVs, 3 rax, and pump marines until the first mineral vein is depleted. Then I expand to something other than natural, if vs T or Z, if prot - expand to natural. Works relatively good so far, something like 60%-70% win if i use this strategy. I only lose if I frag up scouting and send 30 marines straight to his tank line, for example









But in 2v2 I try to go for macro, because I know they will scout a lot in end-game, also if they catch me off guard in mid or late game, I lose the expand, which at that point would be my only source of income. So I have to expand early to gain some leverage over them, if my teammate can help hold the initial 1 base attack







Then I usually drop 2 more rax, upgrade marines to 3-3-stim-shield and just try to steamroll. Usually works if we survive the early game


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> Not criticizing your suggestions here, I know all pros fast expand anyway, so that's definitely the real way to go. But it's kind of ideal. My point is that he might not execute it very well. Fast expand is a pretty ambigious idea for lower league players.
> As lower league players, we don't use standard timings, all we really know is depot at 10 and barracks at 12. If we fast expand with 1 rax, that means if we forget to build a marine after the first one we might lose, if we forgot to land the command center on the natural after building (lets say because we got harassed), then we lost 400 minerals we could have had somewhere else. 2 CCs are also harder to control than 1. When he can finally follow the strat well, 1 rax expand and bunker, and when the all in attack really comes, can he not panic, pull SCV repair and keep building marines while all that is going on?
> Just saying though, cuz I had personal experience about this. Like 9 months back when I played Yukss, I had always fast expanded as terran, and he had always 1 base immortal pushed as protoss, and IIRC I only won the first game. Now, its true that Yukss is a plat player (or was, gold / plat), but I also wasn't bronze. I also played my other friend, who just got back to the game and was really rusty(also protoss, also 1 base pushes), I still lost 3 games in a row, or something. The strat isn't hard to execute, but when facing a 1 base attack, you are bound to have less army than your opponent, and how you can survive that major blow isn't even Gold material in my opinion (it's higher than that)
> @ron : that said, it is a good strat to be practising with, just be prepared to panic with limited army a lot


I say scout your opponent and if they are one basing do a 3 rax expo. If your opponent is doing a delayed expo but its scoutable do a 1 rax expo. Scoutable meaning he is gearing up army to protect hut not win and/or you see and expo being made. Even worker count will help. Not an exact but if he is over saturated one base it usually mean a future expo. Not in your league usually unless its a smurf but the point is to get you out of bronze. If you stay curious and learn ways to scout this from the plentiful internet sources you will be able to tell just by gas timings.

My whole point is practice the macro game now so that when you get to a higher league and actually have to face a macro player you are comfortable because you have a grasp of the entire game. Not just the one base aspect. A major key in a macro game is keep your money spent and to know what to spend it on. You can spend your money on the wrong stuff and get owned. Imagine if you were able to see your enemies moves the entire game. You ever notice when you watch a replay you go " i coulda beat him! "? Its because you see everything. Scout scout scout. Then the next thing to learn is what to do with your scout info.

For example if you face a toss and he fast expands. You cant get a scout but you see he is heavy sentry and you know he only has two gasses taken cause you see his natural. You then know he doesnt have enough gas to get sentries and dts or voidrays. Gas timing is really a great tool to use. But if you never scout? Bamm you are dead more than not in your present state of skill.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, then please tell me what did I do wrong here:
> 
> Scorched Haven TPvTZ loss.zip 40k .zip file


K so I actually watched it.

The biggest problem is your macro. I mean, your build also didn't make sense, but that's ok. You need to constantly produce. And you need more production.

Honestly, start by practicing a one base build. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWItSrXKwzw
Practice it in an empty game until you have it perfectly, then have fun crushing people on ladder. If you can do that, with enough time, you can get anywhere. Because even at Masters this is all I do. Practice 2 base build, 3 base build, etc.

I'm not comfortable laddering unless I can do my build up to my first 200/200 max in my sleep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I say scout your opponent and if they are one basing do a 3 rax expo.


I disagree strongly, and this is a common misconception. That a 3rax expo is 'safer'. In most situations, it actually isn't. The reason 1 rax fe is standard, is because it can hold off 1 base aggression with proper scouting, but also because it is so early, it is an expansion that happens at a point where the enemy can't actually do anything about it. (Discounting stupid 1 base Z allins that are super quick, but super easy to hold)

1 rax fe is actually safer than 3 rax fe. Think of it this way:

1 Base player : invest 1500 in army, attacks. (Say the typical 7 minute timing)
3 rax Fe player : invest 1100 in army, 400 in cc, gets attacked. Loses.

vs

1 base player: invest 1500 in army, attacks
1 rax fe: invest 400 in cc, has more money, able to invest 1500 in army as well because of quicker resource collection. Now you matched him on supply, and you have a much better economy whereas he's screwed.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> K so I actually watched it.
> The biggest problem is your macro. I mean, your build also didn't make sense, but that's ok. You need to constantly produce. And you need more production.
> Honestly, start by practicing a one base build. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWItSrXKwzw
> Practice it in an empty game until you have it perfectly, then have fun crushing people on ladder. If you can do that, with enough time, you can get anywhere. Because even at Masters this is all I do. Practice 2 base build, 3 base build, etc.
> I'm not comfortable laddering unless I can do my build up to my first 200/200 max in my sleep
> 
> I disagree strongly, and this is a common misconception. That a 3rax expo is 'safer'. In most situations, it actually isn't. The reason 1 rax fe is standard, is because it can hold off 1 base aggression with proper scouting, but also because it is so early, it is an expansion that happens at a point where the enemy can't actually do anything about it. (Discounting stupid 1 base Z allins that are super quick, but super easy to hold)
> 1 rax fe is actually safer than 3 rax fe. Think of it this way:
> 1 Base player : invest 1500 in army, attacks. (Say the typical 7 minute timing)
> 3 rax Fe player : invest 1100 in army, 400 in cc, gets attacked. Loses.
> vs
> 1 base player: invest 1500 in army, attacks
> 1 rax fe: invest 400 in cc, has more money, able to invest 1500 in army as well because of quicker resource collection. Now you matched him on supply, and you have a much better economy whereas he's screwed.


I agree whole heartedly. I would never 3 rax expo but i suggested it cause i didnt want him to have to go to far out of his comfort zone all at once. I mean we are advising a bronze.









But i would totally support your statement.

I figure a person at his present skill level is more of a oh crap army builder right now and not A future preventative player. Meaning earlier on he could make army quicker off of 3 rax if he slips in his timings. But on The Other hand it all depends When the enemy comes to cause he could easily gain ground as you said with his 2 extra rax after start of Expo and then another additional 2rax after partial saturation.

It really just boils down to can you execute your build.. if you can the 1 rax expo will be your best friend.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I agree whole heartedly. I would never 3 rax expo but i suggested it cause i didnt want him to have to go to far out of his comfort zone all at once. I mean we are advising a bronze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But i would totally support your statement.
> I figure a person at his present skill level is more of a oh crap army builder right now and not A future preventative player. Meaning earlier on he could make army quicker off of 3 rax if he slips in his timings. But on The Other hand it all depends When the enemy comes to cause he could easily gain ground as you said with his 2 extra rax after start of Expo and then another additional 2rax after partial saturation.
> It really just boils down to can you execute your build.. if you can the 1 rax expo will be your best friend.


Yeah, I guess I forgot he was in a lower league. But honestly, why not start practicing the better builds now? It will help in the long run and you'll crush lower leagues by doing it correctly. The other thing to think about is that when you do 1 rax expand, make sure to split your workers evenly between both bases so when/if you have to pull to defend an all-in, the scvs wont have to go far.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Yeah, I guess I forgot he was in a lower league. But honestly, why not start practicing the better builds now? It will help in the long run and you'll crush lower leagues by doing it correctly. The other thing to think about is that when you do 1 rax expand, make sure to split your workers evenly between both bases so when/if you have to pull to defend an all-in, the scvs wont have to go far.


Yea, i think working on the build you will be using in masters one day is the thing to do now. Everything else will follow, but some people just arent ready for that. Its kinda like leading a horse to water. You cant make it drink. So, you give them a bit of info at a time, and as they progress you can give them more as they need it and they will sprout on their own if they have the talent.


----------



## FrankoNL

Yesterday was horrible. I climbed up to position 1 in my silver league ... but then i lost 9 games out of a total of 12....

For some reason i was just playing horrible.

The only thing that annoys me is that when i do 1 gate FE i get completly massacred by a one base M&M push .... how to stop this from happening?

build at that point:

9 pylon
13 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
18 core
Zealot when possible.
chrono out 2 stalkers and then pressure.
expand as soon as i have the minerals
sentry
sentry
sentry


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yesterday was horrible. I climbed up to position 1 in my silver league ... but then i lost 9 games out of a total of 12....
> For some reason i was just playing horrible.
> The only thing that annoys me is that when i do 1 gate FE i get completly massacred by a one base M&M push .... how to stop this from happening?
> build at that point:
> 9 pylon
> 13 gateway
> 14 gas
> 16 pylon
> 18 core
> Zealot when possible.
> chrono out 2 stalkers and then pressure.
> expand as soon as i have the minerals
> sentry
> sentry
> sentry


Don't wait to pressure, and don't make the second stalker. Attack with the zealot immediately, and rally the stalker to the zealot. This will get your expo up faster, let you tech on 1gate if you see he expanded, or let you get extra gateways up faster if you see he's on 1base. Spend one chrono on the stalker.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lol. The guy asked me after the game if I was GM. I'm silver.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> 
> Lol. The guy asked me after the game if I was GM. I'm silver.


did you change pants after that?

no but seriously







, i thought you were way up there? what happened?

or did I remember wrong?


----------



## Yukss

i need to change my avatar... im now diamond


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. The guy asked me after the game if I was GM. I'm silver.


what have they done to the APM readings now, surely you can't get 400 avg.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> what have they done to the APM readings now, surely you can't get 400 avg.


I dont think its so much that he has 500apm but the fact it is sooo much higher than his opponent.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> did you change pants after that?
> no but seriously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , i thought you were way up there? what happened?
> or did I remember wrong?


I haven't played any games for a good while. I'm not sure if hots ladder is just much harder or if I got so rusty. Got promoted to gold today though.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> what have they done to the APM readings now, surely you can't get 400 avg.


I think the way they calculate average after the game is bugged. My APM spikes to 600 a few time during the game while holding down a key to spawn units from many larvas, but it surely doesn't average to 500. I only get this with zerg.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> did you change pants after that?
> no but seriously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , i thought you were way up there? what happened?
> or did I remember wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't played any games for a good while. I'm not sure if hots ladder is just much harder or if I got so rusty. Got promoted to gold today though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> what have they done to the APM readings now, surely you can't get 400 avg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the way they calculate average after the game is bugged. My APM spikes to 600 a few time during the game while holding down a key to spawn units from many larvas, but it surely doesn't average to 500. I only get this with zerg.
Click to expand...

I had to go absolutally crazy with spam to get ~500apm in a game. I used to average like 150 or something, 500 seems insane. Heck 255 is insane!


----------



## HometownHero

500 APM is Flash level. I saw DRG hit mid 400's a few times, but I don't know what he was doing since all zerg has to do is a=move which is nuts.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> 500 APM is Flash level. I saw DRG hit mid 400's a few times, but I don't know what he was doing since all zerg has to do is a=move which is nuts.


Wonder what MVP's APM was before his hands/wrists screwed him over.
Didn't / Doesn't Flash also suffer from from carpel tunnel or something?


----------



## 13321G4

Also from watching IPL5, it seems like 'all' the koreas have 400+ apm. According to Blizzard that is, no one knows how blizzard counts apm...


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Wonder what MVP's APM was before his hands/wrists screwed him over.
> Didn't / Doesn't Flash also suffer from from carpel tunnel or something?


Blizzard has changed what in game APM was so many times I can't really remember what some of the bigger progamers APM used to be. As soon as they changed it the first time, I just started using SC2 Gears and have used it since for APM among other things.


----------



## Anti!!

They should have left it like the bw days.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They should have left it like the bw days.


You would think that they would have realized people were going to switch over and comparisons were going to be made between a player's performance in both games. Especially now that all the Kespa players are switching over, I would have loved to have seen some APM comparisons for Flash BW vs. SC2. Sometimes I just don't understand Blizzard logic.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> You would think that they would have realized people were going to switch over and comparisons were going to be made between a player's performance in both games. Especially now that all the Kespa players are switching over, I would have loved to have seen some APM comparisons for Flash BW vs. SC2. Sometimes I just don't understand Blizzard logic.


Same here..


----------



## HometownHero

If anyone hasn't seen Bomber v DRG Game 3 from IPL 5, I highly recommend it.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Granted, getting to the Raven air composition in TvZ is impressive, the fact that Bomber controls the whole game blows my mind. IMO, Terran has to work really hard with multi prong drop harass to win these days with tank marine, but it still looks amazing when its pulled off right.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Scarlett vs Life just now was pretty brutal.

A lot of back and forth, but.....the Korean won as usual lol.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Scarlett vs Life just now was pretty brutal.
> 
> A lot of back and forth, but.....the Korean won as usual lol.


Didn't see but scarlett is very good.

In other news:
OMG stephano! (4-4 atm)

oh, TT


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Dem Koreans man lol.


----------



## GarTheConquer

I enjoy keeping up with this thread even though I don't have a lot of time to play and get better









http://drop.sc/281023
ZvT
I just want to be able to defeat a buddy of mine who has had the game for months while I am a total n00b.

Pretty much every game he goes banshees and vikings and I don't know the best way to counter this.

I know I am wood league no good, and I forgot to tech up and scout as well as other n00b mistakes, but could someone tell me how to counter x4 starport banshee/viking seige tank turtle as zerg?

I like to mass roach like in Filters tutorials but that is no good vs buddy's banshee/viking/siege turtle.

When I try to move in with Brood Lords my corruptors/few hydras are never enough.


----------



## CravinR1

Root uploaded a pretty interesting game of CombatEx vs Parting, you guys should check it out I was quite suprised with Combat's play style (was the finals of WCG I think)


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> I enjoy keeping up with this thread even though I don't have a lot of time to play and get better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/281023
> ZvT
> I just want to be able to defeat a buddy of mine who has had the game for months while I am a total n00b.
> Pretty much every game he goes banshees and vikings and I don't know the best way to counter this.
> I know I am wood league no good, and I forgot to tech up and scout as well as other n00b mistakes, but could someone tell me how to counter x4 starport banshee/viking seige tank turtle as zerg?
> I like to mass roach like in Filters tutorials but that is no good vs buddy's banshee/viking/siege turtle.
> When I try to move in with Brood Lords my corruptors/few hydras are never enough.


The main thing wrong in that game was that you were sitting on two bases with only two hatcheries worth of larvae, while missing a lot of injects. Meanwhile your minerals were piling up even though you only had 35 drones. When the terran was on two bases, you should have been on three with at least one macro hatchery. That would have allowed you to produce more units. A good rule of thumb when you see you have an excess of minerals is to either spend it on tech or more hatcheries.

As for unit choice, mutas are better against vikings than corruptors and are also much better against the banshees than hydras. When terran turtles on two bases, you should set up bases all over the map and make sure to have at least 60 drones. This will let you remax your army in just one or two production cycles, which a two-base terran cannot match.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> The main thing wrong in that game was that you were sitting on two bases with only two hatcheries worth of larvae, while missing a lot of injects. Meanwhile your minerals were piling up even though you only had 35 drones. When the terran was on two bases, you should have been on three with at least one macro hatchery. That would have allowed you to produce more units. A good rule of thumb when you see you have an excess of minerals is to either spend it on tech or more hatcheries.
> As for unit choice, mutas are better against vikings than corruptors and are also much better against the banshees than hydras. When terran turtles on two bases, you should set up bases all over the map and make sure to have at least 60 drones. This will let you remax your army in just one or two production cycles, which a two-base terran cannot match.


That sounds like awesome advice! Thanks for watching my n00b game. I just need to work on my macro a ton to pull that off; it is really tough to keep up with everything! I am considering switching to Protoss but I don't want to throw in the towel just yet.

edit: So are we talking speedling/baneling/muta? and then into broodlords if it goes that late?
Could you give me an estimate on what gametime I should be looking at and about how many of each unit?

Like 16min 20muta/60ling?


----------



## HometownHero

My hope in Terran has been restored.

If these buffs go through, it is going to make the game a lot more manageable for Terrans. I think it will also really shake up the meta game for pretty much every match up, and lets be honest, the metagame is pretty stale right now.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> My hope in Terran has been restored.
> If these buffs go through, it is going to make the game a lot more manageable for Terrans. I think it will also really shake up the meta game for pretty much every match up, and lets be honest, the metagame is pretty stale right now.


Is that in any way applicable to WoL?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> My hope in Terran has been restored.
> If these buffs go through, it is going to make the game a lot more manageable for Terrans. I think it will also really shake up the meta game for pretty much every match up, and lets be honest, the metagame is pretty stale right now.


You been playing hots any?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Is that in any way applicable to WoL?


Did you look at the link at all? Its a hots patch future.

I agree with most of the stuff, but i feel that nerfing infestors will be a damage decrease, again. I hope it doesnt render them useless again. I believe instead they should increase the radius of ghost emp and restore their snipe to former glory and increase high templar range by one.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Did you look at the link at all? Its a hots patch future.




Yes.. dude.. I did see it's HOTS patch. That's why I ask if there's a similar patch coming for WoL....


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 
> Yes.. dude.. I did see it's HOTS patch. That's why I ask if there's a similar patch coming for WoL....


Well, it should have answered your question. Lol


----------



## jellybeans69

Any strat/race suggestions for playing FFA against 5 friends?







Played only abit during beta so essentialy a noob / gold leag during beta.


----------



## Anti!!

Lol. I really dont know. I dont play ffa. I would guess you could still usd 1v1 strats. You would just have to play safer. Lol


----------



## jellybeans69

Just been on rts spree with friends and playing different rts'es past week sc2 is next on list. Funny enough y-day when playing AoE 3 i had 3 on em going on me for 15 minutes to just to kill me









P.S Any tips will be welcomed cause i know they like to focus me


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Is that in any way applicable to WoL?


Uh, its a HoTS patch, did you see the link?









But yeah, I don't think we are going to see any groundbreaking balance patches for WoL before HoTS comes out. Honestly, I'd rather them put all their time and effort into making HoTS balanced and enjoyable for each race rather than trying to fix the problems with WoL.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Is that in any way applicable to WoL?


Uh, its a HoTS patch, did you see the link?









But yeah, I don't think we are going to see any groundbreaking balance patches for WoL before HoTS comes out. Honestly, I'd rather them put all their time and effort into making HoTS balanced and enjoyable for each race rather than trying to fix the problems with WoL.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Just been on rts spree with friends and playing different rts'es past week sc2 is next on list. Funny enough y-day when playing AoE 3 i had 3 on em going on me for 15 minutes to just to kill me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S Any tips will be welcomed cause i know they like to focus me


Any time I've every played FFA and won, its because my other opponents were attacked before me. If there are 4 other players trying to focus you, there isn't a whole lot you can do. One time I had two people attacking me and I had enough sentries to ff my front so they ended up attacking each other lol; could try that.


----------



## jellybeans69

Or an option tricking them into playing map with far away bases/play terran and "has been defeated" message trick


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Any strat/race suggestions for playing FFA against 5 friends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Played only abit during beta so essentialy a noob / gold leag during beta.


Assuming you're trying to win, go for fast 3base then tech. If you get rushed you die, but so does he. Better odds than being behind economically. Only play "safe" in FFA if you can drastically outplay everyone in the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Anywayto get us beta keys now? I thought amazon would send me one.


----------



## 6steven9

If amazon is out of them you can try local retailers I know gamestop was giving them with pre-orders for a limited time or maybe bestbuy not sure if they're giving beta keys though.......


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> That sounds like awesome advice! Thanks for watching my n00b game. I just need to work on my macro a ton to pull that off; it is really tough to keep up with everything! I am considering switching to Protoss but I don't want to throw in the towel just yet.
> edit: So are we talking speedling/baneling/muta? and then into broodlords if it goes that late?
> Could you give me an estimate on what gametime I should be looking at and about how many of each unit?
> Like 16min 20muta/60ling?


The units you mention are a good progression but 16 minutes is pretty late for the numbers you indicate. It may be okay in lower leagues but by 16 minutes you should really be on 3-4 bases and around max supply.

Just for reference I'm currently high bronze, waiting to be promoted (not sure why it's taking so long since I have won against every non-bronze player that I've been matched against this season).

If you play on NA, feel free to add me: Khaos #960


----------



## Sainesk

Yay, Amazon.ca finally has HOTS collector and regular versions up for pre-order, unlike the $60 placeholders on other Canadian sites that have been there since WOL...


----------



## HometownHero

Wow, I stand corrected, Blizzard pushed a sizable patch today.

TL;DR -

Terran:
Raven seeker missile upgrade removed.

Zerg:
Infested Terran eggs health down from 100 to 70
Fungal Growth range down from 9 to 8


----------



## Twistacles

me likey


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Anywayto get us beta keys now? I thought amazon would send me one.


I actually got my key with my amazon pre order. Even though it was thought they were out.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Wow, I stand corrected, Blizzard pushed a sizable patch today.
> TL;DR -
> Terran:
> Raven seeker missile upgrade removed.
> 
> Zerg:
> Infested Terran eggs health down from 100 to 70
> Fungal Growth range down from 9 to 8


Great for the pros i guess. I would decrease radius of fungal instead of range.


----------



## ronnin426850

YES!! YES!! YES!!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I actually got my key with my amazon pre order. Even though it was thought they were out.


I thought they were out too, but the Beta Key offer is still on the HoTS product page. I would email Amazon.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Great for the pros i guess. I would decrease radius of fungal instead of range.


I think this lets Ghosts/HTs get in range before fungal? Which is kind of huge, but a radius decrease would have helped lower league players more.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I thought they were out too, but the Beta Key offer is still on the HoTS product page. I would email Amazon.
> I think this lets Ghosts/HTs get in range before fungal? Which is kind of huge, but a radius decrease would have helped lower league players more.


Am i the only zerg? It feels like the world is against me.. lol

Also, i have my key despite the amazon "scare" is what im saying.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Am i the only zerg? It feels like the world is against me.. lol
> Also, i have my key despite the amazon "scare" is what im saying.


Good thing you can hold off the world with broodlord-infestor


----------



## Yukss

need a solid strat agains terran and rauders with stim and the slowing thing.. i play toss .. im diamond.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Good thing you can hold off the world with broodlord-infestor


Oh no you dihnt!!

Lol


----------



## poroboszcz

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452320

Lol. This is crazy.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452320
> Lol. This is crazy.


lol
"Vortex does not affect massive units."


----------



## snelan

Oh well that makes me feel pretty safe as Zerg considering Protoss now has *ABSOLUTELY NO COUNTER TO BROOD/INFESTOR* army.

I used to argue that Zerg wasn't as OP as people liked to think, but now there is no question, shame on any Zerg player that looses to a Protoss player. You literally just have to get a Brood/Infestor army and actually A-Move into their main....

EDIT: And I see all the Terran buffs are troll-y as usual.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snelan*
> 
> Oh well that makes me feel pretty safe as Zerg considering Protoss now has *ABSOLUTELY NO COUNTER TO BROOD/INFESTOR* army.
> I used to argue that Zerg wasn't as OP as people liked to think, but now there is no question, shame on any Zerg player that looses to a Protoss player. You literally just have to get a Brood/Infestor army and actually A-Move into their main....
> EDIT: And I see all the Terran buffs are troll-y as usual.


Except Tempest, which actually counters all Zerg's tier 3...


----------



## burwij

For anyone still wondering about the Amazon beta key situation - I just pre-ordered and immediately received a key.

There's an Amazon promo going right now (unfortunately requiring Facebook) that gives you $5 off of $25. I used the code plus a free trial of Prime to get free release-day shipping. Total was $37.09 (after tax).

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/85216/amazon.com-amazon-5-off-25-promotional-credit

My trial ends in January, but the game ships in March, so we'll see how that goes.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Assuming you're trying to win, go for fast 3base then tech. If you get rushed you die, but so does he. Better odds than being behind economically. Only play "safe" in FFA if you can drastically outplay everyone in the game.


The question is to go terran or protoss? We're all semi-noobs and yes obviously going for #1

Or i could so some nasty 7 pool ownage i'd give 90% they won't be ready for that


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452320
> Lol. This is crazy.


A widow mine buff??

Im really sad. Run bys have been hard enough already.

Hell bat radius?? Im sad.

And what the crap. My favorite ultralisk ability charge gone?


----------



## Sisaroth

Lol blizzard want to be 100% sure that terran is OP when hots is released just as with WoL







.

Not that i think they'll keep it like it is now. Raven seeker missile is crazy right now, broodlords will be complete useless against it.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452320
> Lol. This is crazy.


TERRAN IS BACK BABY!


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Except Tempest, which actually counters all Zerg's tier 3...


That's true, but tempest doesnt do a lot of damage, so the zerg army would still be able to wipe out a base or two in the time it takes for the tempests to destroy the broods.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452320
> Lol. This is crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> TERRAN IS BACK BABY!
Click to expand...

they never left

edit- hp regen upg for medivacs, energy cost reduction? Incoming noob crutch. SC1 medics anyone? Who cares about energy.

Quote:


> Widow Mine no longer hits cloaked units.


YES!
Quote:


> New upgrade: Drilling ClawsDecreases burrow time from 3 to 1 second.


Meh, ~1.75 would have been better.
Quote:


> The Armory now only has one weapon and one armor upgrade for both air and ground upgrades for both Factory and Starport units.


Tired of making hard decisions? Don't worry, we'll make it super easy for you! No more regretting that you went the wrong tech path! Do other races get it, despite the fact that they want Protoss to be more air-central? Nope.
Quote:


> Dark Shrine cost is now 100/100, down from 100/250.


gg cheese incoming.
Quote:


> Void Ray: Prismatic Beam: No longer charges up. Weapon period decreased from 0.6 to 0.5. No longer does passive +massive damage.
> Prismatic Alignment (new ability) increases damage to armored units by 6 for 20 seconds, with a 1 minute cooldown. This does not scale with upgrades.


wait, so no more void-ray rush and they are now only decent against armoured units for a medium/short battle duration. Hm, seems weird.
Quote:


> Infestor: Fungal Growth: Is now a projectile. Speed of the projectile is 10. Range down to 8.


Yay









edit2-
To be honest, I am only gonna play HotS multiplayer about maybe 1-2 months into the release. I want them to fully sort out the patches, as I think it will happen much more rapidly once the game is open to the public. Also there is the single player too


----------



## Anti!!

Screw everyone!!!!

Lol..

Oh, wish my wife and i luck. Baby number two is inc!! Like now. Haha hope she is healthy.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Screw everyone!!!!
> Lol..
> Oh, wish my wife and i luck. Baby number two is inc!! Like now. Haha hope she is healthy.


Hope its a healthy child bro


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> they never left
> 
> To be honest, I am only gonna play HotS multiplayer about maybe 1-2 months into the release. I want them to fully sort out the patches, as I think it will happen much more rapidly once the game is open to the public. Also there is the single player too


Debatable. Have you watched any pro SC2 lately? Its been ZvZ finals for the past couple months. Also, TvZ metagame has been stuck in a rut for almost 6 months (hellion banshee). It got pretty boring.

Unfortunately, I'll put on my realism hat for a second and say that there is a 100% chance of at least one of those buffs getting changed back. Honestly though, Blizzard needed to implement a patch like this because the game has gotten pretty boring as of late. No one wants to sit there and macro a deathball army and no one wants to pay to watch pros sit there and do the same thing. As a player and a spectator, I would much rather have to worry about getting cheesed or prepare for really early game aggression than sit and play defensively against a player doing the same thing.

And yes the Medi healing buff is a bit much. Although, with the potential for more muta play, it would be nice to have turbo boosters to try and get around muta balls patrolling for drops.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Screw everyone!!!!
> Lol..
> Oh, wish my wife and i luck. Baby number two is inc!! Like now. Haha hope she is healthy.


That's awesome. Good luck to you and the Mrs!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> they never left
> 
> To be honest, I am only gonna play HotS multiplayer about maybe 1-2 months into the release. I want them to fully sort out the patches, as I think it will happen much more rapidly once the game is open to the public. Also there is the single player too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debatable. Have you watched any pro SC2 lately? Its been ZvZ finals for the past couple months. Also, TvZ metagame has been stuck in a rut for almost 6 months (hellion banshee). It got pretty boring.
Click to expand...

Yeah because Z is the strongest race currently









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Unfortunately, I'll put on my realism hat for a second and say that there is a 100% chance of at least one of those buffs getting changed back. Honestly though, Blizzard needed to implement a patch like this because the game has gotten pretty boring as of late. No one wants to sit there and macro a deathball army and no one wants to pay to watch pros sit there and do the same thing. As a player and a spectator, I would much rather have to worry about getting cheesed or prepare for really early game aggression than sit and play defensively against a player doing the same thing.
> 
> And yes the Medi healing buff is a bit much. Although, with the potential for more muta play, it would be nice to have turbo boosters to try and get around muta balls patrolling for drops.


Yeah that's all good and such, but has everyone forgotten about Protoss? When was the last time a Protoss won the GSL?

It was like Genius/MC time :/

Although I haven't been watching SC2 lately, stopped just after the overlord MS buff


----------



## HometownHero

Lol, ok, I thought you were trying to say something else.

And yeah there needs to be some protoss fixes, I need to play around with the new patch. Toss air got some big reworks and I would love to see more air openings in all matchups even though I hate defending against it in TvP. The DS buff is... I dunno... you can get it so much faster now, itll be interesting to see how it affects Terran and Zerg openings. Can zergs still make spores without the evo chamber?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Lol, ok, I thought you were trying to say something else.
> And yeah there needs to be some protoss fixes, I need to play around with the new patch. Toss air got some big reworks and I would love to see more air openings in all matchups even though I hate defending against it in TvP. The DS buff is... I dunno... you can get it so much faster now, itll be interesting to see how it affects Terran and Zerg openings. Can zergs still make spores without the evo chamber?


Yes.

Also, Rayleigh Jo is healthy as a horse. Cute too.

8lbs 13oz

19.5 inches tall.

NOW back on subject!!

It will definetly be interesting now. I like the changes but some fine tuning is still needed.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yes.
> Also, Rayleigh Jo is healthy as a horse. Cute too.
> 8lbs 13oz
> 19.5 inches tall.
> NOW back on subject!!
> It will definetly be interesting now. I like the changes but some fine tuning is still needed.


Congrats again man, glad to hear it went well!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yes.
> Also, Rayleigh Jo is healthy as a horse. Cute too.
> 8lbs 13oz
> 19.5 inches tall.
> NOW back on subject!!
> It will definetly be interesting now. I like the changes but some fine tuning is still needed.


Congrats man, good luck.

I like the general direction of the changes (e.g. nerfing vortex and fungal), but some of them seem crazy, like medivac buff anf DT shrine price.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yeah because Z is the strongest race currently
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that's all good and such, but has everyone forgotten about Protoss? When was the last time a Protoss won the GSL?
> It was like Genius/MC time :/
> Although I haven't been watching SC2 lately, stopped just after the overlord MS buff


Uhm.. The world finals less than a month ago were PvPvPvZ?


----------



## Mwarren

Makes me glad that I quit SC2, they're willing to help to fix the balance in HOTS but almost completely disregard WoL. How long has fungal been unbalanced for? I think that more than two people should be balancing a competitive RTS.......lol.









I think that the races being very unbalanced for long periods of time has attributed the most to less and less players playing SC2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Makes me glad that I quit SC2, they're willing to help to fix the balance in HOTS but almost completely disregard WoL. How long has fungal been unbalanced for? I think that more than two people should be balancing a competitive RTS.......lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the races being very unbalanced for long periods of time has attributed the most to less and less players playing SC2.


They are releasing a WoL patch soon









The truth is - Blizzard plain and straight Wanted WoL to be Zerg's game. And I don't blame them







I mean, once there is a favorite, things get hell of a lot more interesting, people have what to argue about








In HOTS they'll do the same to Terran IMO. And I'm not basing this on the recent changes - I know they won't last too long in their original form.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yeah because Z is the strongest race currently
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that's all good and such, but has everyone forgotten about Protoss? When was the last time a Protoss won the GSL?
> It was like Genius/MC time :/
> Although I haven't been watching SC2 lately, stopped just after the overlord MS buff
> 
> 
> 
> Uhm.. The world finals less than a month ago were PvPvPvZ?
Click to expand...

IIRC GSL is a lot tougher than worlds


----------



## Nowyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> IIRC GSL is a lot tougher than worlds


GSL is also a lot more about playing the player as in countering play styles than playing a match-up.

IMHO 2-3 day tournaments are more indicative of balance cause players are forced to play the match-up, even if the top are almost always widely known players, still playing against 10 different players in 1 days takes a lot more than preparing against 1 for a week.


----------



## snelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Screw everyone!!!!
> Lol..
> Oh, wish my wife and i luck. Baby number two is inc!! Like now. Haha hope she is healthy.


Future SC2 pro?


----------



## FrankoNL

Ok im getting annoyed now. 3 games, 2 cheeses.

One was the cannon rush. The other one was 2 proxy gateways.

But i have no idea how to hold this off?







i'm toss btw


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Ok im getting annoyed now. 3 games, 2 cheeses.
> One was the cannon rush. The other one was 2 proxy gateways.
> But i have no idea how to hold this off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm toss btw


You nine scout and two gate cyber core defend.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You nine scout and two gate cyber core defend.


Try and sim city to protect your pylon also. One less thing you have to worry about.


----------



## FrankoNL

But if he goes 2 / 4 zealots ... how do i hold that of with 2 gate cyber? because of the investment he just has more units ....

or do i stop making probes all together and go 2 gates first?


----------



## HometownHero

Because once you get out 1 stalker its game over for him. Just kite the zealots and focus fire down one at a time.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Ok im getting annoyed now. 3 games, 2 cheeses.
> One was the cannon rush. The other one was 2 proxy gateways.
> But i have no idea how to hold this off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm toss btw


Always do 12 scout but scout your base first. Against 2 gate proxy build 12 / 14 double Gate. Your opponent will have 1 more zealot but you can compare it with probes.

For Canonrush: Scouting is the same. Important is not to overreact. If you see it fast enough you can defend it with probes otherwise it is possible to go fast Stalker and delay / counter the canons.
Some maps allows to build the pylons and canons behind your mineralline and it is nearly impossible to defend it if he can surround the canon with 2 Pylons.
You can try to prevent it with a standard pylon by yourself which blocks the opponentspylons / canons.

The funny thing is canon rushes are so rare for me in the ladder..


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> They are releasing a WoL patch soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is - Blizzard plain and straight Wanted WoL to be Zerg's game. And I don't blame them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, once there is a favorite, things get hell of a lot more interesting, people have what to argue about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In HOTS they'll do the same to Terran IMO. And I'm not basing this on the recent changes - I know they won't last too long in their original form.


Yea and the patch is a joke.....fungal just has one less range and eggs have a little less health big deal lol. Honestly the bigger problem is that they made SC2 damn easy. Fungal is such an easy spell to use and it freezes all movement.....it's just a bad spell and unit. They should make the spell so that it's a launch able missile and can be dodged and storm a long with emp should be harder to cast too and the missiles should move slower so that can be dodged. Spell casters break the game and turn it into a if I have unit A and he doesn't have unit B he automatically loses.

In HOTS fungal is getting a huge nerf now why wouldn't they give it a huge nerf in WoL? The answer is simple. $. Guess what, they won;t get my money. Blizzard has really gone downhill and they've gone from a great dev to an average dev.


----------



## GarTheConquer

I'm pretty close to giving-up on becoming "not super bad" at this game.

I couldn't handle playing as zerg with all the larva-injecting every 40sec so I watched some vids and switched to Toss and I am getting owned so hard every single game, like 10 in a row.

I'm think I'm alright (slow though) at making a ton of stalkers, but when and what should I transition to?

http://drop.sc/282686

What should I do with all my minerals? What air should I build? A bunch of phoenix? When should I take 3rd/4th? How do I stop pvt 2 raven rush? Stalkers? I need to somehow get faster.

And this one is just me rage quitting because I was way too slow building a Cybercore to get stalkers and rage quit cause I got ravened. It is kinda funny in retrospect. Embarrassing but I deserve it. I fall to all kinds of cheese.

http://drop.sc/282697









Thought you might get a laugh.


----------



## Nowyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> [...]
> In HOTS fungal is getting a huge nerf now why wouldn't they give it a huge nerf in WoL? The answer is simple. $. Guess what, they won;t get my money. Blizzard has really gone downhill and they've gone from a great dev to an average dev.


Or maybe because HOTS is in beta and they can experiment there while they treat WOL extremely conservative not to screw competitive play with sudden major changes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> In HOTS fungal is getting a huge nerf now why wouldn't they give it a huge nerf in WoL? The answer is simple. $. Guess what, they won;t get my money. Blizzard has really gone downhill and they've gone from a great dev to an average dev.


I don't think they count on getting any more $$ for WoL, mate, that train is long gone







Nothing economical stops them from making changes to WoL.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Yea and the patch is a joke.....fungal just has one less range and eggs have a little less health big deal lol. Honestly the bigger problem is that they made SC2 damn easy. Fungal is such an easy spell to use and it freezes all movement.....it's just a bad spell and unit. They should make the spell so that it's a launch able missile and can be dodged and storm a long with emp should be harder to cast too and the missiles should move slower so that can be dodged. Spell casters break the game and turn it into a if I have unit A and he doesn't have unit B he automatically loses.


This patch is huge, nothing near a joke.
You have no idea how HUGE one less range is. This means that EMP's and feedback can hit the infestor before they get the fungal off, huge! The infestors have to move that little bit closer to the colosi making them super vulnerable. One less range is huge.
70 HP instead of 100 HP is equally huge. One less swipe from colossi, actually killable with storm, huge I tell you.

The spells are interactive. They don't break the game but make it interesting. There are units that are stronger than others, and risks are taken to get these units out. Play solid, scout, and know when and how to punish your opponent, and you will be fine. Other idea is to be greedier your self, but don't defecate your pants when your opponent is smart and kills you.
Quote:


> In HOTS fungal is getting a huge nerf now why wouldn't they give it a huge nerf in WoL? The answer is simple. $. Guess what, they won;t get my money. Blizzard has really gone downhill and they've gone from a great dev to an average dev.


The idea that its for money that they aren't nerfing fungal in WoL is ridiculous. Do you think that all the zergs have bribed Blizzard into making Z OP? Don't be so ignorant. Blizzard is a great developer that is doing it's best to listen to the community the professionals to make HotS the game it deserves to be.
On the note of nerfing fungal, they also made the Dark Shrine 100/100. Do you honestly thing this is going to reach release. They only so drastically nerfed fungal so that zergs would have more reason to go mutalisk in the midgame. They are testing, forcing certain gameplays.

I mean, look at vortex and mothership. They want players to move away from the mothership into other late-game options.

Edit:
A note on the range, why do you think people don't go storm in PvP? Not solely because colossi are extremely powerful and protoss units have a lot of health (+shield), but it's close to impossible to get a 9 range storm off on a stacked army with 9 range colossi ready to melt any HT that get too close.

Edit2: small range mistakes


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> This patch is huge, nothing near a joke.
> You have no idea how HUGE one less range is. This means that EMP's and feedback can hit the infestor before they get the fungal off, huge! The infestors have to move that little bit closer to the colosi making them super vulnerable. One less range is huge.
> 70 HP instead of 100 HP is equally huge. One less swipe from colossi, actually killable with storm, huge I tell you.
> The spells are interactive. They don't break the game but make it interesting. There are units that are stronger than others, and risks are taken to get these units out. Play solid, scout, and know when and how to punish your opponent, and you will be fine. Other idea is to be greedier your self, but don't defecate your pants when your opponent is smart and kills you.
> The idea that its for money that they aren't nerfing fungal in WoL is ridiculous. Do you think that all the zergs have bribed Blizzard into making Z OP? Don't be so ignorant. Blizzard is a great developer that is doing it's best to listen to the community the professionals to make HotS the game it deserves to be.
> On the note of nerfing fungal, they also made the Dark Shrine 100/100. Do you honestly thing this is going to reach release. They only so drastically nerfed fungal so that zergs would have more reason to go mutalisk in the midgame. They are testing, forcing certain gameplays.
> I mean, look at vortex and mothership. They want players to move away from the mothership into other late-game options.


Agreed.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't think they count on getting any more $$ for WoL, mate, that train is long gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing economical stops them from making changes to WoL.


Actually if you think logically it does. If WoL doesn;t get the big changes and HOTS does this gives players the inventive to buy HOTS. Why else would they make HOTS in the first place?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> This patch is huge, nothing near a joke.
> You have no idea how HUGE one less range is. This means that EMP's and feedback can hit the infestor before they get the fungal off, huge! The infestors have to move that little bit closer to the colosi making them super vulnerable. One less range is huge.
> 70 HP instead of 100 HP is equally huge. One less swipe from colossi, actually killable with storm, huge I tell you.
> The spells are interactive. They don't break the game but make it interesting. There are units that are stronger than others, and risks are taken to get these units out. Play solid, scout, and know when and how to punish your opponent, and you will be fine. Other idea is to be greedier your self, but don't defecate your pants when your opponent is smart and kills you.
> The idea that its for money that they aren't nerfing fungal in WoL is ridiculous. Do you think that all the zergs have bribed Blizzard into making Z OP? Don't be so ignorant. Blizzard is a great developer that is doing it's best to listen to the community the professionals to make HotS the game it deserves to be.
> On the note of nerfing fungal, they also made the Dark Shrine 100/100. Do you honestly thing this is going to reach release. They only so drastically nerfed fungal so that zergs would have more reason to go mutalisk in the midgame. They are testing, forcing certain gameplays.
> I mean, look at vortex and mothership. They want players to move away from the mothership into other late-game options.
> Edit:
> A note on the range, why do you think people don't go storm in PvP? Not solely because colossi are extremely powerful and protoss units have a lot of health (+shield), but it's close to impossible to get a 10 range storm off on a stacked army with 9 range colossi ready to melt any HT that get too close.


One less range is a small change, ghosts are still a terrible caster unit. They're a defensive unit. In my opoinion emp should damage zerg units too like they do to toss units and they should damage terran units too. Just because they have one less range doesn;t change much.

Caster units are boring in my opinion because generally speaking one caster unit is defensive and the other offensive. The ghost is defensive, templar defensive vs zerg and offensive vs terran. They should have made all spell casters offensive and they shouldn't be as powerful as they are right now.

Do you know how much micro is requires to emp perfectly infestors and then micro your bio army? It's extremely difficult and terrans emp should do damage. Now it's just going to be about if zerg can get fungals off or terran can get defensive emps off, I've seen plenty of games where a terran emps all of the infestors and still loses yet if a zerg fungals your bio units you're dead.

The idea that Blizzard is making one race stronger in WoL and "balancing" them for HOTS and not WoL makes perfect logical sense to me, with how downhill Blizzards sales have gone it only makes sense as it gives incentive for players to buy the newer balanced game vs playing an older unbalanced game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Actually if you think logically it does. If WoL doesn;t get the big changes and HOTS does this gives players the inventive to buy HOTS. Why else would they make HOTS in the first place?




people play SC2 for two reasons - to experience the story and to relate to the pros. Both of these things depend highly on owning the expansion. The non-competitive friendly gameplay was defeated with removing the LAN MP option. Also, not giving the changes to the old version contradicts with their company policy - vanilla WC3, Diablo II and WoW have always had the tweaks of their expansions added with a patch (to a degree, ofc).
Not to mention Blizzard have a big problem with people leaving the franchise for good. They don't want to give people who wouldn't buy the expansion immediately any more reasons to stop playing.
They Want to keep the WoL players, essentially this makes them more money in the long term, than "forcing" people into buying the exp on release day








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> In my opoinion emp should damage zerg units too like they do to toss units and they should damage terran units too.


That contradicts with the lore


----------



## last-

Just started playing SC2 again after about a 5 months or so. Was never really good at the game. Forever bronze. Any bronze players want to add me and maybe we can play some games or something.

LasT.711


----------



## GarTheConquer

I'm wood-league just bought this game a few weeks ago, if anyone wants to teach a n00b a few things...

Agamemnon
719
Edit: NA


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *last-*
> 
> Just started playing SC2 again after about a 5 months or so. Was never really good at the game. Forever bronze. Any bronze players want to add me and maybe we can play some games or something.
> LasT.711


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GarTheConquer*
> 
> I'm wood-league just bought this game a few weeks ago, if anyone wants to teach a n00b a few things...
> Agamemnon
> 719


EU or US? Or other?


----------



## darkRyu

Does the beta key run out of time or something? Cause pre ordered the HoTS on amazon and was given a beta key. Now i can not log on to the HOTS anymore. It says check my battle.net account and either add or buy game key. What the heck??


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkRyu*
> 
> Does the beta key run out of time or something? Cause pre ordered the HoTS on amazon and was given a beta key. Now i can not log on to the HOTS anymore. It says check my battle.net account and either add or buy game key. What the heck??


When you log-in to battle.net, do you see Hots in the list of games you have?


----------



## last-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> EU or US? Or other?


I'm on NA.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally got my HotS key from Amazon. DoomDash 190 add me.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think HotS is looking really good after last patch. They really addressed most of the major issues with the game and changed some of the matchups considerably.

Protoss air now seems viable in all matchups. Oracle is great. 2 or 3 can easily decimate a mineral line within few seconds. It's exacly what protoss needed in terms of harassment. Also new VRs are freaking strong and carriers are now microable. For zerg hydras are now pretty good which changes the PvZ matchup a lot since both races can go any tech route viably. I've also seen hydras used in ZvT with success. They probably need to do something with the lurker thing, as it kind of sucks. For T spider mines are awesome, kind of like burrowed banelings but better. Also bio is now super strong in all matchups. As is mech lol.

Also I don't get the ranked/unranked ladder thing. It seems that mmr is the same? I got to diamond on ranked ladder, then started fooling round in unranked with new units and loosing a lot. After the patch I got demoted, despite not playing any ranked games since promotion. That kind of defeats the point of unranked ladder since the only difference btween the two is not getting/loosing points. They should be two separate mmrs imo.


----------



## TranquilTempest

I'd prefer they be the same MMR, but unranked games just impact your MMR 1/10 as much.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think HotS is looking really good after last patch. They really addressed most of the major issues with the game and changed some of the matchups considerably.
> Protoss air now seems viable in all matchups. Oracle is great. 2 or 3 can easily decimate a mineral line within few seconds. It's exacly what protoss needed in terms of harassment. Also new VRs are freaking strong and carriers are now microable. For zerg hydras are now pretty good which changes the PvZ matchup a lot since both races can go any tech route viably. I've also seen hydras used in ZvT with success. They probably need to do something with the lurker thing, as it kind of sucks. For T spider mines are awesome, kind of like burrowed banelings but better. Also bio is now super strong in all matchups. As is mech lol.
> Also I don't get the ranked/unranked ladder thing. It seems that mmr is the same? I got to diamond on ranked ladder, then started fooling round in unranked with new units and loosing a lot. After the patch I got demoted, despite not playing any ranked games since promotion. That kind of defeats the point of unranked ladder since the only difference btween the two is not getting/loosing points. They should be two separate mmrs imo.


I dont think it should impact mmr at all. There is no point in practicing unranked if it hurts you anyway.. how dumb.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I dont think it should impact mmr at all. There is no point in practicing unranked if it hurts you anyway.. how dumb.


There are a few issues:

One is that people that use unranked games for practice want the unranked MMR to closely follow the ranked MMR, otherwise you're practicing below your skill level and you don't know if you can get away with X when it actually matters.

A second is that blizzard has to account for people that don't play ranked games, so unranked games MUST impact some kind of MMR, and because of the first issue, it should be linked to ranked MMR.

Finally, it must be resistant to abuse. Blizzard won't keep a system that lets people tank their rating in ranked games to troll low league players indefinitely in unranked games, nor will they keep a system where you can easily tank your MMR in unranked games so you can get more points in ranked games.

The best way I see to address all of these, is to keep a single MMR, with unranked games changing it, but not nearly as much as ranked games.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> There are a few issues:
> One is that people that use unranked games for practice want the unranked MMR to closely follow the ranked MMR, otherwise you're practicing below your skill level and you don't know if you can get away with X when it actually matters.
> A second is that blizzard has to account for people that don't play ranked games, so unranked games MUST impact some kind of MMR, and because of the first issue, it should be linked to ranked MMR.
> Finally, it must be resistant to abuse. Blizzard won't keep a system that lets people tank their rating in ranked games to troll low league players indefinitely in unranked games, nor will they keep a system where you can easily tank your MMR in unranked games so you can get more points in ranked games.
> The best way I see to address all of these, is to keep a single MMR, with unranked games changing it, but not nearly as much as ranked games.


hmmmm..

good point.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> hmmmm..
> good point.


Oh my god, i don't remember the last time i saw this on the internet










Sorry for the off-topic, it just hit me...


----------



## 13321G4

I would have thought that people would use unranked game-play to practice off racing, which is 9 out 10 times not near as good as their main race. So I imagine people want to play on different level whilst offracing, than when laddering. That is why I'm all for three separate MMR's, with random, randomly, chosing the MMR when the race is chosen. The race selection then has to happen pre-game-searching.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would have thought that people would use unranked game-play to practice off racing, which is 9 out 10 times not near as good as their main race. So I imagine people want to play on different level whilst offracing, than when laddering. That is why I'm all for three separate MMR's, with random, randomly, chosing the MMR when the race is chosen. The race selection then has to happen pre-game-searching.


Race specific MMR would work, but you can'r really treat random as whichever race you happen to get. PvZ, for example, is very different than PvR(Z), because you can't FFE against T or P.


----------



## 13321G4

You mean rolling zerg against an opponent that is P right?

First off there are other openings than FFE. Especially the new HOTS units. (momma ship core)
Secondly, you are right, there are a mistakes with that system, and perhaps a fourth MMR is the best solution if you want to go the separate MMR route. I was just trying to think of a way to decrease the bloat you get when every player has essentially 4 different accounts, per account.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Oh my god, i don't remember the last time i saw this on the internet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic, it just hit me...


You mean civil discussion? Lol!!

But in reality there is really no way to stop the smurfs other than the action blizzard takes in the form of banning.


----------



## HometownHero

New beta balance update.

Disappointed that vehicle/starship weapon upgrades got separated again. New muta regen looks.... strong. Also, Dark Shrine up to 150/150 from the previous 100/100. Probably the best change is new colored heal beams on medivacs after you research Cadeceus Reactor.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> New beta balance update.
> Disappointed that vehicle/starship weapon upgrades got separated again. New muta regen looks.... strong. Also, Dark Shrine up to 150/150 from the previous 100/100. Probably the best change is new colored heal beams on medivacs after you research Cadeceus Reactor.


Biased terran.. lol


----------



## Sainesk

Pretty interesting article/video... http://www.fastcompany.com/3003687/starcraft-ii-greatest-learning-tool-isnt-being-taught-any-school


----------



## 13321G4

Oh god that is sooo much regen!

also
Quote:


> Widow Mine
> Unburrowed Widow Mine attack priority decreased to 19, down from 20.
> Burrowed Widow Mine attack priority remains unchanged.


what does that mean?


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Oh god that is sooo much regen!
> also
> what does that mean?


let me guess, attack proirity is lower so enemy units, when A-moved, tend to attack something else assuming there's other higher priority units to choose from within range?


----------



## Anti!!

Im gonna have to treat widow minez like siege tanks. Lol when they burrow with no detection get outta dodge.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Biased terran.. lol


I have to represent. But with 1 regeneration, mutas are either going to be really cool to use for harassment or its going to be ridiculously op. I miss zergs going muta though; always thought those were the more epic TvZs to watch. Infestor/BL is kind of boring to watch.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I have to represent. But with 1 regeneration, mutas are either going to be really cool to use for harassment or its going to be ridiculously op. I miss zergs going muta though; always thought those were the more epic TvZs to watch. Infestor/BL is kind of boring to watch.


going further with your logic, its possible that is exactly what blizzard wants to see : majorly muta harasses going back to TvZ

cuz if you think about it, muta is the fastest air unit whatsoever in that matchup. Vikings aren't even close. With that ridiculous regen, the muta ball can hit and run a lot more efficiently

The downside is in the lower leagues, you will never see a zerg without muta again (except early pool rush and roach bust)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> going further with your logic, its possible that is exactly what blizzard wants to see : majorly muta harasses going back to TvZ
> cuz if you think about it, muta is the fastest air unit whatsoever in that matchup. Vikings aren't even close. With that ridiculous regen, the muta ball can hit and run a lot more efficiently
> The downside is in the lower leagues, you will never see a zerg without muta again (except early pool rush and roach bust)


Yea, should be interesting as i never stopped using muta play. :/


----------



## poroboszcz

Because of the time zone I never see any of you online. How about some scheduled HotS KotH/FFA over the weekend?


----------



## Sainesk

Amazon.ca hasn't sent me a key, don't think we have the same promotion in Canada. On a side note, the regular edition is currently only 34.99 to pre-order on Amazon.ca. I think i'll go for that and a CE which i'll never open...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Because of the time zone I never see any of you online. How about some scheduled HotS KotH/FFA over the weekend?


saturday 9:00 P.m. cst?


----------



## poroboszcz

That's 3am for me... I may not be playing starcraft at this time








I'm +6 hours to your time, so anything from 10am to 6pm CST is fine for me.


----------



## HometownHero

I'm really flexible so it doesn't matter too much to me. I'm on EST, so as long as its not at 1 am I'll be good.


----------



## Anti!!

Oh! Ok.

Well its saturday after all. I just gotta do a little bit around the house. Why dont we just meet up 5pm. Cst if im a hour late oh well but i should be able to be there. I will keep ya posted. Lets just frequent this post to stay up to date.


----------



## HarrisLam

man i just wish i could join you guys for some team games or something...I'm in asia on top of being team-games-only, how sad.

And I'm not even free this sunday morning (which will be evening of saturday US time)


----------



## poroboszcz

I've created OCN group which you can join and scheduled an event for 5pm EST / 11pm GMT on Saturday.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I've created OCN group which you can join and scheduled an event for 5pm EST / 11pm GMT on Saturday.


Nice, I tried making one the other day and it kept telling me the name was taken.

Lol, who made the OCN clan?


----------



## Anti!!

lol! dunno

@harris

What time would you be available?


----------



## QxY

Now that's how you cast a game:


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I've created OCN group which you can join and scheduled an event for 5pm EST / 11pm GMT on Saturday.


I don't know how to find or join this group. Could someone explain? I will google it.

Oooooohhhh, it's only a feature in HotS!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QxY*
> 
> Now that's how you cast a game:


HAHAHAHA!!! EEEEPPPIIICCCCC.

FOR FREEDOM!!! FOOORR STEVEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol.

Actually, what am i saying!? SCREW steve!

FOR THE SWARM! That was an exhibition! We got your home world PAWNS!!


----------



## HarrisLam

oops....


----------



## HarrisLam

@dat video : i knew its him when i heard Bob








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> lol! dunno
> @harris
> What time would you be available?


its december, with a lot of gatherings coming my way, and having to allocate 0.5 - 1 day for my girlfriend every weekend, a lot of the following time slots will be taken :

(US western time)
1) friday 7pm - 9pm (usually after that, I'll be with my girlfriend, if she got work, the period will be extended to like 1am)

2) saturday 8am - 11am

3) saturday 7pm - sunday 11am (this is my full day of sunday right here, if there's something i gotta do on sunday, this period will be partially / fully occupied)

in these 3 periods, 2 is the most likely for me to be available, then 3, then 1

not this week though, completely occupied this week. Probably saturday 9-11am, cuz thats 1-3am for me


----------



## Anti!!

Wow. Lol


----------



## Sainesk

lol awesome game, now I want Steve the Stalker as a new campaign hero in LotV...


----------



## Yukss

Epic moment yesterday.. FINALLY MASTERS...!


----------



## FrankoNL

gratzzzz! I can not seem to break silver


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> gratzzzz! I can not seem to break silver


thanks... and dude,, why ? i help a friend with his account and in the same day i got promoted twice from bronze to gold.. rigth now, top 1 gold beating mid plats... few more game and platinum..


----------



## FrankoNL

probably because i'm not that good of a player


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Epic moment yesterday.. FINALLY MASTERS...!


Im jelly! Congrats and great dedication!


----------



## HarrisLam

congrats to you yukss, i admire the dedication youre willing to put in
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> gratzzzz! I can not seem to break silver


dont worry

only bronze is hard to break, silver is about a paper-barrier away from gold.

if we ever meet each other we should play, im about a rusty gold at the moment so i should be around your level.


----------



## HometownHero

Grats Yukss!


----------



## Yukss

thanks guys


----------



## DoomDash

Grats. I should probably get masters ( play a placement ) so I can continue my masters every season streak. Forever masters







.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Grats. I should probably get masters ( play a placement ) so I can continue my masters every season streak. Forever masters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Tss, masters problem...

Gratulations Yukss


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Tss, masters problem...
> Gratulations Yukss


It's a problem when you really tried to get in GM.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's a problem when you really tried to get in GM.


Well, you better put some more effort in then.

Also 45minutez till HotS OCN ffa/koth!!!!


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, you better put some more effort in then.
> Also 45minutez till HotS OCN ffa/koth!!!!


Just beat a bronze in unranked mode, so warmed up right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, you better put some more effort in then.
> Also 45minutez till HotS OCN ffa/koth!!!!


No longer possible.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No longer possible.


I feel ya, I cant either...

People dont understand. Real life really wont allow for the proper practice needed.

And this stupid patch has got me so pissed off.. I make eight infestors and get 2 fungals off and the rest die. They are wasted gass. But without them say good by to broods. Its freaking ******ed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I feel ya, I cant either...
> People dont understand. Real life really wont allow for the proper practice needed.
> And this stupid patch has got me so pissed off.. I make eight infestors and get 2 fungals off and the rest die. They are wasted gass. But without them say good by to broods. Its freaking ******ed.


Yep I had to get a job and now I have a kid on the way lol.


----------



## Yukss

hello guys, pls add me, i want play againts you to practice a bit, im still a noob

yukss # 987


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yep I had to get a job and now I have a kid on the way lol.


Yep, married with two kids and a job with above 40 hours a week and i try to work out at least 3times a week. Somewhere in there i got to be a good father and husband. Sorry sc2.

@yukksssssssssss

Ill be on in a few.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> hello guys, pls add me, i want play againts you to practice a bit, *im still a noob*
> yukss # 987


your statement does not match your avatar.

please advise.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I can't seem to get promoted out of bronze. I'm hovering between 2nd and 3rd rank but can never catch up to 1st in points. I'm already beating the majority of top silver and gold players. When I'm matched up against gold it's either an even match or I'm slightly favored. Yet I'm still not being promoted.

I thought people get promoted when they can win at least 50% of games against a higher league. Does it depend on me winning a majority of games for each matchup as well (not sure about exact ratio but my ZvP and ZvZ are probably worse than ZvT, which I seem to get the most)? Am I more likely to get promoted if I win next season's placement?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I can't seem to get promoted out of bronze. I'm hovering between 2nd and 3rd rank but can never catch up to 1st in points. I'm already beating the majority of top silver and gold players. When I'm matched up against gold it's either an even match or I'm slightly favored. Yet I'm still not being promoted.
> I thought people get promoted when they can win at least 50% of games against a higher league. Does it depend on me winning a majority of games for each matchup as well (not sure about exact ratio but my ZvP and ZvZ are probably worse than ZvT, which I seem to get the most)? Am I more likely to get promoted if I win next season's placement?


The system doesnt like to move you more than it has too. So, if you are still winning the majority of your games you still have not yet leveled out. You are close, but not close enough. I very rarely have been rank one before a promotion. Its actually a good thing if you are still winning the majority of your games and you havent been placed cause its seeing how high you can actually go. Patience.


----------



## CravinR1

Don't be surprised if you jump to gold or higher if you keep winning your games. Like mentioned before the game waits for you to "level" out before promoting you. Sounds like you're doing well.


----------



## FrankoNL

Whohoooooo

got promoted to Gold.

The weird thing is .. i went from number one in silver ... to number 6 in gold, right after i got promoted


----------



## Anti!!

Thats how it works!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Whohoooooo
> got promoted to Gold.
> The weird thing is .. i went from number one in silver ... to number 6 in gold, right after i got promoted


Which means you have a gold division with empty slots, or the vast majority of players in your division haven't spent their bonus pool.


----------



## FrankoNL

ahh ok cool!

Will go down soon i guess


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> ahh ok cool!
> Will go down soon i guess


If you let bonus pool build up, sure. If you keep playing and working on your problems, you'll keep moving up.


----------



## Dr216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The system doesnt like to move you more than it has too. So, if you are still winning the majority of your games you still have not yet leveled out. You are close, but not close enough. I very rarely have been rank one before a promotion. Its actually a good thing if you are still winning the majority of your games and you havent been placed cause its seeing how high you can actually go. Patience.


This, when i was smurfing on my borthers account which was low bronze at the time I was winning close to 100% of my games but it still took me about 50 games to get my first promotion after that I went right into Diamond.

Need to make me some time to get back into SC2 sooooo out of practice my mechanics are terribad, think right now i'd be lucky to place in bronze XD


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Whohoooooo
> got promoted to Gold.
> The weird thing is .. i went from number one in silver ... to number 6 in gold, right after i got promoted


thas normal,, i was top 1 diamond and after promotion i got top 2 masters. few hours later i was like 20 lol


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> your statement does not match your avatar.
> please advise.


hi, im masters yes. but still learning.. i want to practice with you all..

add me if you want to

yukss # 987


----------



## FrankoNL

as i predicted ... i lose every single game now .. raging all over the place.

I just don't know exactly what to do ...

Think i'm done with the game ... it's just not fun when u lose 90 % of your games.

maytbe i can post a replay? .. so u guys can see what im doing wronmg?


----------



## 13321G4

Relax, I had the same experience after each promotion. I think I speak for OCN when I say we would love to help you, but you might be better off going through the replays yourself.

What I personally do after a loss streak is decide which match-up I found I was the weakest in, and get a new build to try in that MU by going through the latest Day[9] dailies.

What race are you?


----------



## FrankoNL

I'm toss


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> as i predicted ... i lose every single game now .. raging all over the place.
> I just don't know exactly what to do ...
> Think i'm done with the game ... it's just not fun when u lose 90 % of your games.
> maytbe i can post a replay? .. so u guys can see what im doing wronmg?


I completely understand your frustration. Its very hard but you cant get any lower than bronze. Just use the resources available to you. Youtube is chocked full of current examples and people who give advice. Its up to you.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> hi, im masters yes. but still learning.. i want to practice with you all..
> add me if you want to
> yukss # 987


You won't get much of a learning experience playing with people way below your level although your opponents may benefit from playing you. Do you have HotS beta?


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I completely understand your frustration. Its very hard but you cant get any lower than bronze. Just use the resources available to you. Youtube is chocked full of current examples and people who give advice. Its up to you.


im at gold right now


----------



## HometownHero

New HoTS patch today. Anti will be happy.


----------



## FrankoNL

But i must admit ... i don't really know what i'm doing.

For example: PvP i have a clue of what i want to do .. ( 2 gate robo expand ). But i don't know the exact timings after the standard 9 pylon, 13 gate, 14 gas, 16 pylon, 18 gate and 18/19 gas.

How did you guys work on your builds against different opponents?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You won't get much of a learning experience playing with people way below your level although your opponents may benefit from playing you. Do you have HotS beta?


yes i have it, same id, i almost never play it, im bronze there lol.. i like it for sure, but after the patch protoss is kinda weak now.. i read the patch notes and i saw that blackhole from mothership wont affect mass units and this is madness because that is the porpuse of it, now we dont have chances againts gglords and infestors.. anyway, now that i got masters in WOL i will play a bit more HOST

yukss # 987

ps.. my best match is PvP, then PvT and im weak in PvZ

in PvZ imortals, sentries all in is my best weapon, but then i saw grubby doing a 7 gates +2 blink and is great, i did it yesterday againts a zerg top master and i lost, it was like a 25min match but he managed to hold all my attacks he went mass roaches +1 armor and man, those thing are TOO strong, i have to micro my blink stalkers like hell (+130 apm, i saw the replay), i surrender, i still had minerals and gas and the third base running but he had 5 bases and were worthless to still in the game, no time to go robo or air


----------



## 13321G4

I still don't like the widow mines, but that is just gut instinct. The Fungal Buff makes it very hard to dodge and the range is very long again, however now a raven can still stop it with a PDD, I like the WOL version of fungal more. The extra blink research time in WOL would be very limiting, but can't comment on HOTS. I also like how they made the Medivac upgrade lategame.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> as i predicted ... i lose every single game now .. raging all over the place.
> I just don't know exactly what to do ...
> Think i'm done with the game ... it's just not fun when u lose 90 % of your games.
> maytbe i can post a replay? .. so u guys can see what im doing wronmg?


get OCN channel, i will help you.. and losing is ok, before i got masters i was diamond top, but there was a time that i lost like 13 games in a row againts masters, omg such a hell, i thougth i was going back to platinum, but then you get better after a lost, you NEDD, MUST whach your own replys and see your mistakes and try to avoid them

and finally, YES, starcraft 2 is such ....... game, tooo stressfull, is like going to job, you HAVE to play at least 5 games daily in order to mantain your level..


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> But i must admit ... i don't really know what i'm doing.
> For example: PvP i have a clue of what i want to do .. ( 2 gate robo expand ). But i don't know the exact timings after the standard 9 pylon, 13 gate, 14 gas, 16 pylon, 18 gate and 18/19 gas.
> How did you guys work on your builds against different opponents?


if you are really determined to get your sheet together and work your way up, by all means ask the pros here. They will help you out

gold league shouldn't require anything more than a bit of anti-cheese experience, macro ability and basic knowledge of unit countering though

.....Just saying. Coming from a guy who got to gold in the 2nd season, plat in 3rd or 4th, but have really played no more than 5 games every season after the 2nd~3rd and still manage to stay in gold forever. I do not follow any build orders after the first rax either.

Personally I suggest focus on working on your macro and all your other problems will solve themselves.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> if you are really determined to get your sheet together and work your way up, by all means ask the pros here. They will help you out
> gold league shouldn't require anything more than a bit of anti-cheese experience, macro ability and basic knowledge of unit countering though
> .....Just saying. Coming from a guy who got to gold in the 2nd season, plat in 3rd or 4th, but have really played no more than 5 games every season after the 2nd~3rd and still manage to stay in gold forever. I do not follow any build orders after the first rax either.
> Personally I suggest focus on working on your macro and all your other problems will solve themselves.


funny, i use a friend account to practice, it was bronze, and took me like 10 games streak to get silver then 15 games more i got gold,current rank top 1 againts plats, few more game to promotion, maybe that division is to easy i dont know, it was way harder to get promoted in my own account..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> New HoTS patch today. Anti will be happy.


Thaaaaannnnnnkkkkkk goodness. You saw how bad fungal was hometown. Sheeshshshshshshs.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Thaaaaannnnnnkkkkkk goodness. You saw how bad fungal was hometown. Sheeshshshshshshs.


Yeah, I will agree with you on this one. That was way too much of a nerf. The lower range is what hurt the most because by the time you got close enough to fungal, I already had bio eating up your broods and infestors.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> New HoTS patch today. Anti will be happy.


God, they are so playing hit and miss with that patch...


----------



## Yukss

almost top 1 Master in my Division









http://www.sc2ranks.com/la/158492/YuKsS


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> almost top 1 Master in my Division
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sc2ranks.com/la/158492/YuKsS


And this was the Gold Yukks we knew not so long ago? cool lol


----------



## FrankoNL

ok i started to recover. Won 3 games in a row against other golds. Top silver is almost insta win if they don't cheese. But last game i had to play a low league bronze .What's up with that?

He had a very late 4 gate and after that he went 3 robo's on 2 base and started massing immortals .... I countered it with 8 colossus out of 2 robo's and 5 gates.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> And this was the Gold Yukks we knew not so long ago? cool lol


Yes lol. But i lost few games yesterday.. even 1 low gm beated me whish is good i guess


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> ok i started to recover. Won 3 games in a row against other golds. Top silver is almost insta win if they don't cheese. But last game i had to play a low league bronze .What's up with that?
> He had a very late 4 gate and after that he went 3 robo's on 2 base and started massing immortals .... I countered it with 8 colossus out of 2 robo's and 5 gates.


Is sbout mmr. Yesterday i played againts top diamond, mid and top master and one low gm...


----------



## FrankoNL

So my MMR is bronze?







... it was the only bronze of the day. Other guys i played were top silver or gold.

Still having difficulty holding off the 2 proxy gateway ... getting better at it though .. even though i lost.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> So my MMR is bronze?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... it was the only bronze of the day. Other guys i played were top silver or gold.
> 
> Still having difficulty holding off the 2 proxy gateway ... getting better at it though .. even though i lost.


Yeh proxy 2 gate is tough.

Concerning playing the bronze leaguer, remember when you were in bronze yourself, how many gold leaguers did you play? You are still playing better opponents, that bronze dude is just close to a promotion!

And MMR is weird.


----------



## FrankoNL

yeahhh that's true ..

the weird thing was .. he was a low bronze ... not even top 20

Ahh well i won anyway .. guys sucked


----------



## Anti!!

Yea, and sometimes the system is just testing the waters just to keep tabs on your skill level. You are coming right along.


----------



## poroboszcz

Do you guys know some good TvT cheese/all-in? My average TvT lasts 40 minutes and I just don't feel like playing anymore after one game.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Woohoo! Finally, after winning 13 of the last 15 games against mostly high silver/gold players I got promoted to silver. Kind of disappointed I didn't get placed in gold.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Do you guys know some good TvT cheese/all-in? My average TvT lasts 40 minutes and I just don't feel like playing anymore after one game.


2 proxy rax all in? Using a bunker

Or the "SCV train"

No way back from these .... just so you know


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Do you guys know some good TvT cheese/all-in? My average TvT lasts 40 minutes and I just don't feel like playing anymore after one game.


deny scout with deposit/rack/deposite then build 4 more raks and rally your racks to the enemy base after getting 10 marines.. is a 5 racks all in.. you must do this before he make siege tanks


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> deny scout with deposit/rack/deposite then build 4 more raks and rally your racks to the enemy base after getting 10 marines.. is a 5 racks all in.. you must do this before he make siege tanks


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> 2 proxy rax all in? Using a bunker
> Or the "SCV train"
> No way back from these .... just so you know


Thanks, will give it a go. The problem with terran is that they're probably the least cheese'able race, and with current big maps stuff like 3-4 rax all-in may not work.

Also here's one of my recent HotS replays. Probably one of the best games I've played recently. Not very HotS'y, but still a pretty decent game with constant back and forth action. Guess the playstyle suits my name, lol.

http://drop.sc/286737


----------



## FrankoNL

Yesterday i saw a master protoss player holding off a 2 gate proxy with a cannon in his mineral line. Ofcourse this requires scouting but it seemed to be a good way to hold. After the cannon is up its gg.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yesterday i saw a master protoss player holding off a 2 gate proxy with a cannon in his mineral line. Ofcourse this requires scouting but it seemed to be a good way to hold. After the cannon is up its gg.


thats is what i do if i scouted the proxy gates i send a probe to cannonrsuh his base while i hold


----------



## FrankoNL

And you hold by putting a pylon inside your mineral line?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> And you hold by putting a pylon inside your mineral line?


no, behind and the cannon next to it


----------



## FrankoNL

I'm sorry. That's what i meant ofcourse







My bad!

Tnx. Going to try that next time!

So do you immediatly put down a 13 forge? ... or a gateway and forge both at 13?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I'm sorry. That's what i meant ofcourse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My bad!
> Tnx. Going to try that next time!
> So do you immediatly put down a 13 forge? ... or a gateway and forge both at 13?


in PvP if you scouted proxy is 13 forge then 15 gate after the first cannon..


----------



## FrankoNL

Great i'll try that


----------



## Yukss

Merry christmas you apes...!


----------



## NewHighScore

I need some more starcraft 2 friends. I like to play lots of team games. I play terran and zerg. I am diamond in all of my team leagues and I have achieved masters team once. I am only platinum 1v1 because I only have about 200 games played 1v1. But i have over 7500 team games played.







I started this game knowing nothing about online competitive RTS.

Getting real sick of being held back by the gamble of random teammates in team games. Drops, ragequitters, mutes, n00bs and everything else. I play every day and LOVE to play team games. I would really like to play with someone who is serious and has the ability to work as a team. Jeez this is starting to sound like a dating classified.

If you are diamond/high diamond/masters team rank please hit me up for some team games.

Oh ya I like constant pressure and harass, not much of a macro player. Especially with randoms. I used to have a vent server and I will fire it back up if need be.







Cheers!

P.S. I play mostly during the day through the commom man's work hours. 9-5 gmt -7.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I need some more starcraft 2 friends. I like to play lots of team games. I play terran and zerg. I am diamond in all of my team leagues and I have achieved masters team once. I am only platinum 1v1 because I only have about 200 games played 1v1. But i have over 7500 team games played.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I started this game knowing nothing about online competitive RTS.
> Getting real sick of being held back by the gamble of random teammates in team games. Drops, ragequitters, mutes, n00bs and everything else. I play every day and LOVE to play team games. I would really like to play with someone who is serious and has the ability to work as a team. Jeez this is starting to sound like a dating classified.
> If you are diamond/high diamond/masters team rank please hit me up for some team games.
> Oh ya I like constant pressure and harass, not much of a macro player. Especially with randoms. I used to have a vent server and I will fire it back up if need be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> P.S. I play mostly during the day through the commom man's work hours. 9-5 gmt -7.


Do your signature like ours.









Then they shall come. Also hangout in our channels "overclock.net". It is the same in both WoL and HoTS


----------



## HometownHero

Happy holidays everyone!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Happy holidays everyone!


Merry christmas and happy holidays all.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Happy holidays everyone!


Sweeeeeet!









Hepy holidays to you too!


----------



## pisto

So getting out of bronze is hard as hell with all the trolls, smurfs, diamond players tanking to come practice off-race, and general weird stuff that happens down there. I have been stuck in top 3 bronze forever!!!!


----------



## FrankoNL

Getting out of bronze takes time. I'm a gold player ... stuck in top gold ..


----------



## Anti!!

You think bronze is hard in WoL dont do it in hots then. I tanked placement cause i was pissed and i had to scrap like a dog to get out. Im now in top gold and facing the next round of smurfs. Plat should be a dream after this.


----------



## FrankoNL

sigh ....

i'm really .. really frustrated ..

i lost 10 out of my last 11 games ....

right now: i'm done with sc2 .. just seems like a giant waste of my time.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> sigh ....
> i'm really .. really frustrated ..
> i lost 10 out of my last 11 games ....
> right now: i'm done with sc2 .. just seems like a giant waste of my time.


You have to learn to walk away. Sometimes meditation on the game is as good as practice. Sometimes its better than bashing yourself for losing. Its a fine balance. You will find the joy in it with a break. Besides. Are they close games? Are you watching the replays and trying to improve based on what you see?


----------



## FrankoNL

they are not close, not at all unfortunatly.

I don;t watch replays, will this help me improve? And what do i need to focus on?


----------



## Sainesk

Watch good teachers/streamers like Day9 - being able to play well can only come after one understands what playing well means.

Ask yourself while analyzing your own replay things like - did you ever miss a worker when your planned build doesn't intentionally require it thus delaying everything, did you scout, did you continue to scout throughout the game, how did you react to the information gained from the scout(s), how did you react when your scout failed, did you mess up an engagement, why did you lose the engagement (because you were out-macroed/the opponent had counters which you couldn't scout/didn't react properly to etc.), did you spend resources efficiently...

I like Day9's approach in one of his videos, find one mistake and focus on correcting it - it doesn't matter if you lose the next 50 games because you focused too hard on that one thing, because losing a bad habit is a victory itself and may win you 50 games and more in the future.

If you have a really hard time finding your own mistakes, submit a couple of replays and i'm sure some of the awesome players here will gladly help point out things you can work on.


----------



## FrankoNL

I will take a look at that.

The thing is i don't have a real build. I just have a general idea of what i want to do and that's what i do


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Watch good teachers/streamers like Day9 - being able to play well can only come after one understands what playing well means.
> 
> Ask yourself while analyzing your own replay things like - did you ever miss a worker when your planned build doesn't intentionally require it thus _delaying everything_, did you scout, did you continue to scout throughout the game, how did you react to the information gained from the scout(s), how did you react when your scout failed, did you mess up an engagement, why did you lose the engagement (because you were out-macroed/the opponent had counters which you couldn't scout/didn't react properly to etc.), did you spend resources efficiently...
> 
> I like Day9's approach in one of his videos, find one mistake and focus on correcting it - it doesn't matter if you lose the next 50 games because you focused too hard on that one thing, because losing a bad habit is a victory itself and may win you 50 games and more in the future.
> 
> If you have a really hard time finding your own mistakes, submit a couple of replays and i'm sure some of the awesome players here will gladly help point out things you can work on.


This is very true. I did not know what to improve on until i watched mrbitter coaching people playing zerg. Now without him doing it i catch myself being lost but when i get serious i remember the basics and then watch a pro or high high masters league player playing live. It really gives you a reality check as to was is good and what really just isnt.

You will have to devote 5 of those eleven games you played today on research if you wanna break your ceiling. If you think about it, it is only more fun and enjoyment to be had.


----------



## pisto

I always watch my replays. Gotta watch the replays. Here is a good resource for terran players - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XfwmgUQEgI

That's just one video of several. I wish he would post a few more TvZ vids. Also, he has a couple epic posts on his blog on teamliquid for strategy and methods of improving. He says to play w/o sound so you are forced to remember to build supply and he also recommends other small little things like drag-selecting units from the top right down so you are closer to the mini-map when you are done selecting.


----------



## FrankoNL

Do you have a good resource for protoss/

I watched the apollo revamped tutorials, but i think they are not "basic" enough


----------



## FrankoNL

I seem to have stabilized. Won 5 games in a row today after a 2 day Sc2 break.


----------



## CravinR1

Winning several games consecutively is not stabilizing


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Getting out of bronze takes time. I'm a gold player ... stuck in top gold ..


Personaly i found bronze to silver took forever, silver gold took long but not as long, gold plat took longer, plat diamond happened far too quickly. (Currently low diamond and don't think i deserve diamond status, still feel like I'm bad but not complaining .)

I recommend playing builds that are stable but punish idiots. PvT go two base asap (1 gate FE) into 6 gate push. PvP DT huk style (kills robo-less players and players that are greedy with their teching.) PvZ i can't help you







. I'm currently trying the immortal zealot templar style, but am having problems macroing it (huge mineral swell into mineral all-time low).
Probably the best advice for PvZ is going immortal sentry all-in.

I traditionally played safe games, like going phoenix +2 gates and a robo in PvP but got so sick by the fact that I couldn't punish my opponents and that greedy/stupid play was accepted that I decided to change my styles into builds that punish opponents as much as possible, but weren't (completely) all-in.

PvP
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-439-huks-pvp-dt-play/

PvT
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-450-partings-pvt-gateway-style/

PvZ
Immortals sentry all-in:
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-522-partings-immortal-sentry-push-newbie-tuesday/
Chargelot immortal templar:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379300


----------



## pisto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I recommend playing builds that are stable but punish idiots. PvT go two base asap (1 gate FE) into 6 gate push. PvP DT huk style (kills robo-less players and players that are greedy with their teching.)


I *routinely* punish greedy protoss FE builds as terran, especially on two player maps. I beat diamond smurfs regularly like this as well so be careful!

check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XfwmgUQEgI


----------



## DoomDash

Haven't even played much HotS beta yet, not sure how much I will get into HotS.... stupid real life bs







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Haven't even played much HotS beta yet, not sure how much I will get into HotS.... stupid real life bs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I hear ya. I just been doing it. Lol just stop everything and do it. If I cAn lol


----------



## FrankoNL

Now i have a question of a technical nature! Since today i am facing the following problem: When i start the game everything is fine, but after about 3 minutes in the screen freezes for a moment, goes black and comes back again. The problem is that after the image comes back everything feels laggy, it is just not responsive. Very hard to pull of a 4 gate like this.

Does anyone recognize this problem?

BTW: i hate pvp, decided to 4 gate as much as possible!


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Now i have a question of a technical nature! Since today i am facing the following problem: When i start the game everything is fine, but after about 3 minutes in the screen freezes for a moment, goes black and comes back again. The problem is that after the image comes back everything feels laggy, it is just not responsive. Very hard to pull of a 4 gate like this.
> Does anyone recognize this problem?
> BTW: i hate pvp, decided to 4 gate as much as possible!


Sounds like a GPU issue, more than anything else. I know at least some of the HD 7000 series cards had a bug and/or power-saving feature where they would run at 2D clocks if there is a flash video open on the desktop. As a result, gaming with Youtube open in the background led to poor performance. However, I believe this was changed with the last several versions of Catalyst so should no longer be a problem. If you don't have the latest drivers, try updating them and then report back.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Now i have a question of a technical nature! Since today i am facing the following problem: When i start the game everything is fine, but after about 3 minutes in the screen freezes for a moment, goes black and comes back again. The problem is that after the image comes back everything feels laggy, it is just not responsive. Very hard to pull of a 4 gate like this.
> Does anyone recognize this problem?
> BTW: i hate pvp, decided to 4 gate as much as possible!


Try 11 gate 3 gate pressure build here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=273465

It is not as committed as 4 gate, but just as punishing against greedy players. It is also quite safe against cheese due to early first gate. Just make sure you hit the < 5:30 first warp-in timing and you'll get a lot of free wins. I usually follow it up with DT into either expand or 1 base chargelot archon 4 gate, depending on how much damage I've done. Back when I was playing a lot and my main race was protoss I had close to 90% win ratio with this build in PvP.

Also Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## ronnin426850

Happy new year!


----------



## Yukss

happy new year...

well. i have lost the last 12 matches in a row in masters league.. im still top master 6 though.. but husrt anyways..


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Happy New Year!

It's weird, for some reason I keep getting matched up with almost only Terrans making ZvT my best matchup by far. I need to work on my ZvZ, I've been opening 14 pool/14 hatch but think I will try 11 overpool now.


----------



## Anti!!

Welp, a convo with one of the many pro players on my friends list from the beta days.


----------



## FrankoNL

double post


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Sounds like a GPU issue, more than anything else. I know at least some of the HD 7000 series cards had a bug and/or power-saving feature where they would run at 2D clocks if there is a flash video open on the desktop. As a result, gaming with Youtube open in the background led to poor performance. However, I believe this was changed with the last several versions of Catalyst so should no longer be a problem. If you don't have the latest drivers, try updating them and then report back.


I just reinstalled sc2 and the drivers, everything seems to be fine now. tnx









And it happened again. It also happens in other games. Freezes / red screens. I'm starting to think my HD7870 is terminal


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I just reinstalled sc2 and the drivers, everything seems to be fine now. tnx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it happened again. It also happens in other games. Freezes / red screens. I'm starting to think my HD7870 is terminal


If the problem was limited to your screen flashing off and back on, I'd say it may also be due to a defective cable. However, if it's freezes/red screens I'm not so sure.

Have you done a clean install of Windows since getting this card? When I swapped my 6950 for a 7950 on a relatively fresh installation of Windows, I would frequently have my desktop freeze (2-5 times/week) and occasionally other weird behavior until I reinstalled my OS. This was after no amount of driver reinstallations would fix it and I was beginning to suspect a faulty card. Since then it has run flawlessly.


----------



## 13321G4

I got demoted to Plat









I always felt like I wasn't good enough for Diamond, but all my plat opponents now have no game sense, and don't even want to four gate when they have a in base pylon (probe saw that probe but I didn't :-( ). They are, to be blunt, idiots.

Except for the zergs, they just sRRRR and win







.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Well I finished the season in silver but I did find it interesting that last night I was matched up against a diamond player for the first time. Hopefully that means something as far as my MMR goes. He played random and did a 6 pool with a scout planting a spine behind my mineral line, just before his lings entered my main. Haven't lost to a 6 pool in a while and, had I not stupidly pulled my attacking drones from the spine to block the lings, I feel like I would have won. Do people in diamond seriously lose to this?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Well I finished the season in silver but I did find it interesting that last night I was matched up against a diamond player for the first time. Hopefully that means something as far as my MMR goes. He played random and did a 6 pool with a scout planting a spine behind my mineral line, just before his lings entered my main. Haven't lost to a 6 pool in a while and, had I not stupidly pulled my attacking drones from the spine to block the lings, I feel like I would have won. Do people in diamond seriously lose to this?


Not me. I lose cause I refuse to do anything but macro.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Not me. I lose cause I refuse to do anything but macro.


A true RTS fan! Macro is the real game


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> A true RTS fan! Macro is the real game


XD


----------



## FrankoNL

unfortunately .... i lose a lot because i blindly go macro


----------



## ronnin426850

We should form a macro guild and play only among ourselves!!! No attacks before 10min mark or something..
It will be known as the OCN True SC2 Guild, and we will have our own tournament!

I'm serious, guys, what do you think??


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> We should form a macro guild and play only among ourselves!!! No attacks before 10min mark or something..
> It will be known as the OCN True SC2 Guild, and we will have our own tournament!
> I'm serious, guys, what do you think??


It seems to me that completely removing the risk of an early attack would make this into a very different game. The goal then would be to take as many mining bases as possible, while maximizing unit production capability and tech to create as strong an army as possible in the fewest production cycles. Many units would lose viability, particularly tier 1, in favor of amassing those that can do massive AOE damage.

Not being able to deny expansions means players can take them all around the map and turtle. As a zerg player, I believe this would greatly favor terran. I think it would also remove the possibility for any ground attack until the entire map has been mined out and even then I'm not sure how viable it would be if terran chooses to turtle on high ground with tanks, thors, and turrets.


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Do we have an OCN Clan? Also I live stream when I play. You can list my Stream on 1st post. Zerg Silver/Gold Laddering towards plat/dia this season.

http://www.twitch.tv/nauticus945


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> It seems to me that completely removing the risk of an early attack would make this into a very different game. The goal then would be to take as many mining bases as possible, while maximizing unit production capability and tech to create as strong an army as possible in the fewest production cycles. Many units would lose viability, particularly tier 1, in favor of amassing those that can do massive AOE damage.
> Not being able to deny expansions means players can take them all around the map and turtle. As a zerg player, I believe this would greatly favor terran. I think it would also remove the possibility for any ground attack until the entire map has been mined out and even then I'm not sure how viable it would be if terran chooses to turtle on high ground with tanks, thors, and turrets.


I think the most important effect would be that map terrain possesion and fortification would mean a whole lot more than they do now. In fact they will just mean something.
How often do you make an exp just to control the territory around it?
Yeah, terran has some child's play improvisation on the terrain control topic with those strategically placed bunkers under the ramp... But it's not a very viable strategy, and it's a pure joke compared to what you have in, for example, C&C. Or AoE.
For example, you can't make a slow base push in SC2, the amound of time and funds needed to raise an exp is just too damn high to use it for tactical purposes. A base in SC2 HAS to have a solid income to be justified, IMO. And that takes half the fun off of it. How often does terran build a planetary fortress? Next to never..

With a solid macro play and stable resource bank, you can afford to fortify battlefield bases placed near choke points, not near resources. Or at high ground. This would mean alot, I think, especially on bigger maps









And I would very much like that style of play









BTW creep would be terribly OP on such games


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I think the most important effect would be that map terrain possesion and fortification would mean a whole lot more than they do now. In fact they will just mean something.
> How often do you make an exp just to control the territory around it?
> Yeah, terran has some child's play improvisation on the terrain control topic with those strategically placed bunkers under the ramp... But it's not a very viable strategy, and it's a pure joke compared to what you have in, for example, C&C. Or AoE.
> For example, you can't make a slow base push in SC2, the amound of time and funds needed to raise an exp is just too damn high to use it for tactical purposes. A base in SC2 HAS to have a solid income to be justified, IMO. And that takes half the fun off of it. How often does terran build a planetary fortress? Next to never..
> With a solid macro play and stable resource bank, you can afford to fortify battlefield bases placed near choke points, not near resources. Or at high ground. This would mean alot, I think, especially on bigger maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I would very much like that style of play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW creep would be terribly OP on such games


What I meant was that both terran and protoss already have the ability to wall off their base by around 10 minutes, despite having to build units in order to counter possible rushes. If the latter necessity is removed it can place the focus on expanding and walling off even more effectively, while establishing a very strong economy . Since they were already able to safely expand, they can now have more walled off bases. This makes their bases practically untouchable by zerg, since having good vision and air defense can prevent nydus play and enough well placed static defense can counter mutas. This means corruptor/brood lord/infestor becomes the only viable army composition for zerg.

Creep is great but I'm not convinced that zerg would have many options when terran/protoss can safely cover half the map in early expos. Zerg relies on starving opponents who turtle by denying further expos, which becomes impossible when everyone can early expo safely. IMO terran's ability to turtle and develop an extremely strong economic lead with mules would make them OP.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> What I meant was that both terran and protoss already have the ability to wall off their base by around 10 minutes, despite having to build units in order to counter possible rushes. If the latter necessity is removed it can place the focus on expanding and walling off even more effectively, while establishing a very strong economy . Since they were already able to safely expand, they can now have more walled off bases. This makes their bases practically untouchable by zerg, since having good vision and air defense can prevent nydus play and enough well placed static defense can counter mutas. This means corruptor/brood lord/infestor becomes the only viable army composition for zerg.
> Creep is great but I'm not convinced that zerg would have many options when terran/protoss can safely cover half the map in early expos. Zerg relies on starving opponents who turtle by denying further expos, which becomes impossible when everyone can early expo safely. IMO terran's ability to turtle and develop an extremely strong economic lead with mules would make them OP.


IMO without mules, Z and P would still have more than enough resources to support a 200 supply army through series of low-loss tactical strikes or territory protection. Of course, mules give T advantage, but it's mostly felt in a full army vs full army A-move clash, where you have to recover ASAP and don't have time to wait for resources.
But if Z tries to play defensively, IMO it's next to auto-win. Because you can have a very stable presence on the map with a lot of spine crawlers. My point is - nothing fancy, if you try to just hold long enough, you can recover your losses, where T (or P) just can't recover past a certain point (say, about the time when the natural drains).
You can deny them expansion in the precise moment when expansion is all that matters.
I hear what you say about already having half of the map, but in such a game bases would fall easily. If you time an attack to a lightly protected base with a 200s army, you take it down in 5-10 sec max.
And here the opponent has 2 choices, techically - go against your main force, or go against one of your exp. And this is a split second decision. Where Your decision- which base to fortify most -is a carefuly calculated one. You can guess which base he would go after on a split-second decision. Fortify it heavily. You will lose it, proly, but he sustains heavy casualties with a base down. You sustain light casualties with a base down, because you picked a poorly defended exp. In the other case, if he goes for the battle, that's a 200vs200 clash where micro pays off, but it's safe to assume on AVG you'll both lose about 50-80% of your force. And he's with a base down, where you have all your exps.
Then, if that happens late enough, you can so easily deny further exps, it's just fun to imagine! :

I don't know, honestly, that's all just wild speculation







And imagination







But in the 1-2 games i played that went that far, territory became more and more importat, that's what makes me believe it would be so here too.
And Z has potential for territory protection, it's just not a potential that has been developed yet, because Z has different style on ordinary games.
But in extra-long games, where territory matters more, Z could also shine


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> IMO without mules, Z and P would still have more than enough resources to support a 200 supply army through series of low-loss tactical strikes or territory protection. Of course, mules give T advantage, but it's mostly felt in a full army vs full army A-move clash, where you have to recover ASAP and don't have time to wait for resources.
> But if Z tries to play defensively, IMO it's next to auto-win. Because you can have a very stable presence on the map with a lot of spine crawlers. My point is - nothing fancy, if you try to just hold long enough, you can recover your losses, where T (or P) just can't recover past a certain point (say, about the time when the natural drains).
> You can deny them expansion in the precise moment when expansion is all that matters.
> I hear what you say about already having half of the map, but in such a game bases would fall easily. If you time an attack to a lightly protected base with a 200s army, you take it down in 5-10 sec max.
> And here the opponent has 2 choices, techically - go against your main force, or go against one of your exp. And this is a split second decision. Where Your decision- which base to fortify most -is a carefuly calculated one. You can guess which base he would go after on a split-second decision. Fortify it heavily. You will lose it, proly, but he sustains heavy casualties with a base down. You sustain light casualties with a base down, because you picked a poorly defended exp. In the other case, if he goes for the battle, that's a 200vs200 clash where micro pays off, but it's safe to assume on AVG you'll both lose about 50-80% of your force. And he's with a base down, where you have all your exps.
> Then, if that happens late enough, you can so easily deny further exps, it's just fun to imagine! :
> I don't know, honestly, that's all just wild speculation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And imagination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But in the 1-2 games i played that went that far, territory became more and more importat, that's what makes me believe it would be so here too.
> And Z has potential for territory protection, it's just not a potential that has been developed yet, because Z has different style on ordinary games.
> But in extra-long games, where territory matters more, Z could also shine


A major benefit of mules in late game is that they free up supply for army. Since terran is now guaranteed safe for 10 minutes he can make only orbital commands all around the map and build defense. With the exception of the early game, SCVs are really only needed for gas. With enough mules T can try to quickly mine out expansions, making their defense unnecessary. What if T had a 180 supply ball of thors, tanks, and battlecruisers? I'm not really sure what can take that out.

This makes me think of a game I once played against a protoss where I scouted an FFE and decided to play a macro game on 3 bases. In fact, he opened the game by taking bases in all three corners of the map, probed up to 100, while building nothing but cannons everywhere. Once his bases were completely fortified, he made starports and just spammed nothing but void rays. There's not a lot that can defeat 50+ void rays and a mothership if you're not prepared for it. My mistake was that I hadn't scouted it until it was too late but who really expects a protoss to take 5 expansions in the first couple minutes of the game?


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Happy New Year!
> It's weird, for some reason I keep getting matched up with almost only Terrans making ZvT my best matchup by far. I need to work on my ZvZ, I've been opening 14 pool/14 hatch but think I will try 11 overpool now.


Try 10 over(exractor trick) 14 hatch 16 pool 16 1 gas 17 over saturate both bases with min 1 with double gas then make a bane/speedling push.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G.E.Nauticus*
> 
> Try 10 over(exractor trick) 14 hatch 16 pool 16 1 gas 17 over saturate both bases with min 1 with double gas then make a bane/speedling push.


Hatch first with such a late pool is suicide in ZvZ. I get rushed by early pools in most games as is and win against the majority of all-ins, which are incredibly common in lower leagues. I'm not looking to change that part by delaying my defense.


----------



## Yukss

happy new year again...

well i lost the placement match but i got masters again.. kinda hard to keep up.. i have another account that i just go promoted to platinum.. i will pratice with it until i get masters again..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G.E.Nauticus*
> 
> Do we have an OCN Clan? Also I live stream when I play. You can list my Stream on 1st post. Zerg Silver/Gold Laddering towards plat/dia this season.
> http://www.twitch.tv/nauticus945


Someone made an ocn clan in hots. By the name of leetums. This person has not added anyone though...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Hatch first with such a late pool is suicide in ZvZ. I get rushed by early pools in most games as is and win against the majority of all-ins, which are incredibly common in lower leagues. I'm not looking to change that part by delaying my defense.


This is not true.









It's only suicide if you can't micro against 6 or 8 lings and manage to keep 10 or more drones.









When you can do that you will look back and see how much you really can get away with.

There was a guy on teamliquid thAt did a thread showing his rroad to grandmasters only doing a drone sixpool all in. He was successful, but he also showed how to defend it with just drones. It is verrrrrrryyyyyyy possible.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> A major benefit of mules in late game is that they free up supply for army. Since terran is now guaranteed safe for 10 minutes he can make only orbital commands all around the map and build defense. With the exception of the early game, SCVs are really only needed for gas. With enough mules T can try to quickly mine out expansions, making their defense unnecessary. What if T had a 180 supply ball of thors, tanks, and battlecruisers? I'm not really sure what can take that out.


well, they are talking about "no attacks in 10 minutes", not "no army in 10 minutes"

If you build nothing but orbitals and basic def, at min 12th-13th the most bases you can have is like 3, and you still lose easily at min 13th-15th


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> This is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's only suicide if you can't micro against 6 or 8 lings and manage to keep 10 or more drones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you can do that you will look back and see how much you really can get away with.
> There was a guy on teamliquid thAt did a thread showing his rroad to grandmasters only doing a drone sixpool all in. He was successful, but he also showed how to defend it with just drones. It is verrrrrrryyyyyyy possible.


While this may by true about a 6 pool, lings, queens, and spines are still better for defending than just drones. What about a 10 pool, where they produce nothing but lings or an all-in with drones? I'm pretty sure they can arrive at your base before the pool completes. Plus such a late pool delays larvae, which may become the limiting factor. I'm just not sure that the pros, if there even are any, outweigh the cons.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> well, they are talking about "no attacks in 10 minutes", not "no army in 10 minutes"
> If you build nothing but orbitals and basic def, at min 12th-13th the most bases you can have is like 3, and you still lose easily at min 13th-15th


That may be true with a standard build order but If you delay tech, I'm sure the timings would be different. What if you focused on nothing but orbitals and SCVs, making just seige tanks and turrets to defend at the 10 minute mark? You can even wall off with a CC to prevent something like a baneling bust. With enough production buildings and some strategically placed sensor towers you can significantly delay unit production. Plus if some of the more distant bases consist of just a CC and mules for mining, that base can provide a lot of income, while also being treated as expendable in case of an early attack.


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Hatch first with such a late pool is suicide in ZvZ. I get rushed by early pools in most games as is and win against the majority of all-ins, which are incredibly common in lower leagues. I'm not looking to change that part by delaying my defense.


Not true at all. Time the difference with my build your looking at a 30-45 second difference between pool finish vs 10 pool witch is almost perfect being as it takes 20 seconds+ to cross the map. I'll find the replay where I got 6 pooled and 10 pooled and owned them. Trust me once your comfortable with it you will like it. Its nice your pool and 2nd hatch pop at the same time which means as soon as your second hatch opens you can queen them both and are like 30 gas from speedling.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Been playing some ladder games today and I'm really not a fan of the new large 2-player maps.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Been playing some ladder games today and I'm really not a fan of the new large 2-player maps.


What league are you in?


----------



## FrankoNL

Pretty joyfull news. Well, i think it is anyway haha.

I got promoted to Platinum! I still don't think i belong there, but hey .. not complaining. Now my goal is to stay in platinum as long as i can.









Held of my first proxy 2 gate today. Put a cannon in my mineral line, and then he just did not know what to do next. I got a core and 3 gates. Crushed the 2 gates and then expanded. Steamrolled him with collosus.

Also i am getting better against terran... Seems to be the match up in which i know what to do. PVP is still my worst though. It's just looking in a mirror, hoping that your positioning will be better.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What league are you in?


Currently in Silver. Not sure what happened, as last season when I was promoted to silver I was winning ~80% of my games against silver and gold opponents. This season I seem to be losing more than I win.

One thing I have recently began having some trouble with is early marine/tank pushes that end in seige tanks outside my base. I have a replay from a recent game that I'd really appreciate getting some feedback on how I could have better defended his push. I think my biggest problem is APM, which I'm trying to work on but is generally in the 50-70 range, and that I still forget to macro properly under pressure (queens had lots of energy and sitting on a lot of larvae near the end). http://drop.sc/291968


----------



## FrankoNL

btw. People who want to practice against a bad platinum toss .. let me know







EU server.


----------



## 13321G4

Sure I'll play







I'm a 'good' plat toss and willing to play, but don't have much time so might not be on any time soon...

RlndRSA @ 171 IIRC
Also add me on skype, vet.roland. Better IM than B.net.


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Currently in Silver. Not sure what happened, as last season when I was promoted to silver I was winning ~80% of my games against silver and gold opponents. This season I seem to be losing more than I win.
> One thing I have recently began having some trouble with is early marine/tank pushes that end in seige tanks outside my base. I have a replay from a recent game that I'd really appreciate getting some feedback on how I could have better defended his push. I think my biggest problem is APM, which I'm trying to work on but is generally in the 50-70 range, and that I still forget to macro properly under pressure (queens had lots of energy and sitting on a lot of larvae near the end). http://drop.sc/291968


Your loosing because alot of the plats/dias are now gold/silver till they rank back up. In a few weeks it will balance out.

You have to scout it early to anticipate it and win against it Build a small force of roach infestor just to hold them off. Then get 5-6 broods ASAP to deal with rine tanks issue. While dealing with his forces use 6 mutas or so to Take out main mineral line or to clear expo min lines if they didn't spam turrets in base. you should get a GG after clearing mineral lines if not build more brood/corruptors and push.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G.E.Nauticus*
> 
> Your loosing because alot of the plats/dias are now gold/silver till they rank back up. In a few weeks it will balance out.
> You have to scout it early to anticipate it and win against it Build a small force of roach infestor just to hold them off. Then get 5-6 broods ASAP to deal with rine tanks issue. While dealing with his forces use 6 mutas or so to Take out main mineral line or to clear expo min lines if they didn't spam turrets in base. you should get a GG after clearing mineral lines if not build more brood/corruptors and push.


What? He's not gonna get brood lords on two bases against a one base allin.

When he saw the terran wasnt expanding, he shouldve held the watch-towers and droned till two base saturation..maybe, 50~ workers. Then just spam mass ling non-stop with inject. Or ling bane. Or go lair for spire. Really what he did was terrible and shouldnt work.

One pce of advice I can give you, though, is if you don't think you can win the fight, dont take it. Delay, build up more units, etc. You attacked into his tanks like 3-4 times. If you had massed all those units up, and attacked once, you couldve won


----------



## OkanG

I've been on and off SC2 for a long time.. Haven't played for months now, but my friend got me downloading it again. Any tips for a newbie Zerg? We're talking as newbie as it gets. I remember obsessing too much about micros and then getting discouraged because I never got past mid/high bronze..


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> What? He's not gonna get brood lords on two bases against a one base allin.
> When he saw the terran wasnt expanding, he shouldve held the watch-towers and droned till two base saturation..maybe, 50~ workers. Then just spam mass ling non-stop with inject. Or ling bane. Or go lair for spire. Really what he did was terrible and shouldnt work.
> One pce of advice I can give you, though, is if you don't think you can win the fight, dont take it. Delay, build up more units, etc. You attacked into his tanks like 3-4 times. If you had massed all those units up, and attacked once, you couldve won


Thanks, your suggestion makes a lot of sense. Especially against Terran I find that so many of my losses are due to poor engagements, often attempted in hopes of catching them when their tanks are unsieged.


----------



## Yukss

well guys, just do not get crazy if you have a bad losses streak, i have my own now, i have lost 13 games in a ROW now, so my avised is to stop playing ladder and start play custom games with your friends or ramdon in order to practice your buils, last season i finished top4 masters and now im 98th rank LOL, masters league is stressfull, i had my best moments in sc2 when i was bronze... ohh those days really was fun..


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> well guys, just do not get crazy if you have a bad losses streak, i have my own now, i have lost 13 games in a ROW now, so my avised is to stop playing ladder and start play custom games with your friends or ramdon in order to practice your buils, last season i finished top4 masters and now im 98th rank LOL, masters league is stressfull, i had my best moments in sc2 when i was bronze... ohh those days really was fun..


I'm not looking for fun, I WANNA CLIMB ZE LADDERZ


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I'm not looking for fun, I WANNA CLIMB ZE LADDERZ


so go for it


----------



## FrankoNL

Don't you just rage quit after your 10th loss?

I know i did when i lost everyhting in gold.

I am in masters now tough


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Don't you just rage quit after your 10th loss?
> I know i did when i lost everyhting in gold.
> I am in masters now tough


I have more than 100 games, I think. Yet, I was still in bronze. It's the first time I really played an RTS game, but shouldn't 100+ games be enough for me to at least get to silver for now?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Don't you just rage quit after your 10th loss?
> I know i did when i lost everyhting in gold.
> I am in masters now tough


Whoa! Weren't you promoted to gold a few weeks ago and platinum just the other day? How much do you play?


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I have more than 100 games, I think. Yet, I was still in bronze. It's the first time I really played an RTS game, but shouldn't 100+ games be enough for me to at least get to silver for now?


Yes and no. I would recommend watching Streams. Coming into SC2 with no experience can be tough.


----------



## PuffinMyLye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G.E.Nauticus*
> 
> Yes and no. I would recommend watching Streams. Coming into SC2 with no experience can be tough.


I'm a long time original SC player (not Broodwar). I picked up SC2 and want to get into it but it's so different. Where can I watch these streams you speak of? And is there anywhere else I should be looking to in order to learn the new units, hotkeys, etc? Is that all just in the OP? If so I'll be going through that all this weekend.


----------



## OkanG

I'm number 3 bronze now, coming from rank 50 earlier today. Woo!


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Whoa! Weren't you promoted to gold a few weeks ago and platinum just the other day? How much do you play?


haha played a lot the last couple of weeks, true


----------



## Sainesk

latest HOTS BETA balance changes:

Quote:


> Terran
> 
> Barracks
> Train Reaper no longer requires a Tech Lab Addon.
> Hellbat
> Attack speed changed from 1.9 to 2.The Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade no longer increases Hellbat weapon damage.Napalm Spray weapon damage increased from 10 +9 vs. light to 18 +12 vs. light.Splash damage radius decreased from 110 to 45.
> Medivac
> Caduceus ReactorNo longer improves the healing rate of Medivacs.Upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 and 110 seconds to 100/100 and 80 seconds.Emergency Thrusters ability renamed Ignite Afterburners.
> Raven
> Seeker missile Energy cost decreased from 125 to 75.Primary target damage reverted from 300 to 100.Seeker Missile once again deals splash damage.The delay time prior to firing has been increased from 3 to 5 seconds.
> Reaper
> The Battlefield Awareness passive ability has been removed from the game.Movement speed increased from 3.38 to 3.75.The Nitro Packs upgrade has been removed from the game.P-45 Gauss Pistol weapon damage decreased from 4 +5 vs. Light to 4.
> Siege Tank
> Siege Tanks no longer require an upgrade in order to enter Siege Mode.
> 
> Protoss
> 
> Mothership
> The Vortex ability has been removed from the game.
> Mothership Core
> The Envision ability has been moved to Oracle.
> Oracle
> The Time Warp ability has been moved to the Mothership Core and the Mothership.
> 
> Zerg
> 
> Infestor
> Fungal Growth damage decreased from 30 +10 vs. Armored to 30.
> Mutalisk
> Mutalisk Regeneration passive ability renamed Tissue Regeneration and its tooltip has been updated to improve clarity.


Really curious about the reaper change, one of my favorite Terran openings...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Siege mode without upgrades? Wonder how early we'll be seeing terrans push out with marine/tank now.


----------



## DoomDash

I keep saying Blizzard has no idea what its doing, just look at the HotS patches and its obvious. That's not even including the terrible direction they've taken. MP ready for march? Not balanced, and certainly not smart.


----------



## HarrisLam

reaper takes no add on?

game is gonna go crazy....

I kind of miss the game...dont have time to play though
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I have more than 100 games, I think. Yet, I was still in bronze. It's the first time I really played an RTS game, but shouldn't 100+ games be enough for me to at least get to silver for now?


No

I had more than 200 games in bronze before going to silver, 30 games in silver and straight to gold

bronze is the hardest league to get out of in this game, just dont give up and you'll get to where you should be


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> reaper takes no add on?
> 
> game is gonna go crazy....
> 
> I kind of miss the game...dont have time to play though
> No
> 
> I had more than 200 games in bronze before going to silver, 30 games in silver and straight to gold
> 
> bronze is the hardest league to get out of in this game, just dont give up and you'll get to where you should be


I had at least 250 games in bronze before I even started getting matched up against silver players and I was high bronze within the first 50. Even after I began winning >80% of games against silver and gold players, it still took more than 50 games to get promoted to silver.

It's funny but it felt like the difference between top bronze and high gold players was very small. Now that I'm top silver I still feel very little difference between the mostly gold players I'm matched against and the occasional top bronze. Hopefully gold is on the horizon.


----------



## OkanG

I'm starting to get paired a lot against mid-silver players. I guess this means that I'm close to promotion. I have more than 100 points more than number 2 in my bronze league. I do lose most of the games against the silver players I'm against though. When I start pounding them, I might just get promoted soon


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I'm starting to get paired a lot against mid-silver players. I guess this means that I'm close to promotion. I have more than 100 points more than number 2 in my bronze league. I do lose most of the games against the silver players I'm against though. When I start pounding them, I might just get promoted soon


no.. if you lose againts players in the same league is ok, BUT IF, you lose againts player in leagues above you you will not get promotions any soon.. you MUST beat players above you and it has nothing to do with points, im leveling my friend's account, it took me like 20 games streak from low bronze to silver, and i was not even near top bronze, then, it took me like 10 more games treak againts golds and even plats (being silver) and i got promoted to gold, then, after 15 more games again mostly plats and mid diamond i got promoted to plats, im top plat rigth now with that account, and all this in 2 days... kinda boring..

but, with my account, im getting my ass kicked againts top masters, im so mad about it


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> no.. if you lose againts players in the same league is ok, BUT IF, you lose againts player in leagues above you you will not get promotions any soon.. you MUST beat players above you and it has nothing to do with points, im leveling my friend's account, it took me like 20 games streak from low bronze to silver, and i was not even near top bronze, then, it took me like 10 more games treak againts golds and even plats (being silver) and i got promoted to gold, then, after 15 more games again mostly plats and mid diamond i got promoted to plats, im top plat rigth now with that account, and all this in 2 days... kinda boring..
> 
> but, with my account, im getting my ass kicked againts top masters, im so mad about it


Very frustrating. I understand completely..


----------



## OkanG

I just beat a number 40 silver, then a number 12 silver, woop woop! But then I lost to a rank 2 bronze


----------



## pisto

Bronze is by far the most difficult league to get out of. I know because I spent a total of over 500 games in bronze before I FINALLY GOT TO SILVER TODAY! I took such a long time because I was such an on and off player for so long, but today since the new league started a few days ago, I played my placement game and it gave me mid silver. Not as satisfying as working my way through bronze game by game before the season ended but I just couldn't quite make that work. Now I am beating silver players no problem. Everyone rags on bronze but there are good and dedicated players there that regularly get screwed over b/c of trolls and general mayhem in the bronze league.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pisto*
> 
> Bronze is by far the most difficult league to get out of. I know because I spent a total of over 500 games in bronze before I FINALLY GOT TO SILVER TODAY! I took such a long time because I was such an on and off player for so long, but today since the new league started a few days ago, I played my placement game and it gave me mid silver. Not as satisfying as working my way through bronze game by game before the season ended but I just couldn't quite make that work. Now I am beating silver players no problem. Everyone rags on bronze but there are good and dedicated players there that regularly get screwed over b/c of trolls and general mayhem in the bronze league.


I agree. I remember a game when I was still in bronze league where I got destroyed by a bronze terran who was using unusually good micro, in addition to having me out-macroed. When I checked the replay I saw that throughout the game he maintained an APM of over 150. There's no way this guy was a genuine bronze.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think the new patch is pretty cool.


----------



## pisto

yes. Many other agree. I just absolutely crushed another mid silver player. He came out of his base once. I think the higher bronze/ lower silver players are better than mid silver! although I am losing games too.


----------



## pisto

edit: dbl post


----------



## OkanG

That picture made me lel


----------



## FrankoNL

I'm thinking of practicing Terran for a bit. But i don't want to screw up my MMR / ladder or buy another account ( 27 euro's ). Sigh .... First world problems.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think the new patch is pretty cool.


Lol at the zerg icon joke







haha


----------



## poroboszcz

I didn't get it at first as well as why he called me Jesus Christ. Then I figured he must be referring to patchzergs.

I'm thinking about picking a single race, but can't decide between terran and zerg. I've got a bit bored of deathballing with protoss or maybe I just played it too much. I get most wins with zerg, but I find terran more fun/diverse although more frustrating at the same time.


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Last nights stream went good. I think i lost 2 matches and moved from 30 silver to 30 gold. Woot!

http://www.twitch.tv/nauticus945/b/355916916


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I didn't get it at first as well as why he called me Jesus Christ. Then I figured he must be referring to patchzergs.
> 
> I'm thinking about picking a single race, but can't decide between terran and zerg. I've got a bit bored of deathballing with protoss or maybe I just played it too much. I get most wins with zerg, but I find terran more fun/diverse although more frustrating at the same time.


I still don't get the zerg emblem reference.


----------



## OkanG

3 consecutive wins against high/top silver players. After that, I completely smash a rank 12 gold player. Give me my silver already, Jesus!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I still don't get the zerg emblem reference.


Me neither







I feel left out


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I still don't get the zerg emblem reference.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Me neither
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel left out


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385876


----------



## DoomDash

Terran for sure proboszcz, easily the most rewarding race IMO.


----------



## OkanG

MFW I have more than 200 points more than rank 2 in my league, I've beaten about 95% of the silver players I've been up against (and a top gold), and I'm still not being promoted.


----------



## 13321G4

Jezus christ relax!

Are you trying to acchieve a status symbol by promoting from bronze to silver? It took me close to a thousand games to get out of bronze. Chill out, play some games, focus on more workers, and you shall be out in no time.

I used punishing builds to get me from gold to diamond, but my mechanics never really grew. I'm going to switch to some standard macro BO's just to practice mid-late game. In the games I play I feel like i miss a round of warp in's leading me to high minerals. I can build more gates but it's more of a medication than a precaution.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I still don't get the zerg emblem reference.
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel left out
Click to expand...

Zergs have recently been referred to as patch zergs because of the 'recent' boom of success Zergs are having, partially because of the queen range buff, and partially because peeps have started to listen to destiny and build (op) infestors.

When Poroboscv started using terran with an emphasis on early siege tech, it is not unreasonable to assume that his play is only feasible because of the recent buff, thus making him a 'patch terran' and making the zerg decal funny.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I didn't get it at first as well as why he called me Jesus Christ. Then I figured he must be referring to patchzergs.
> 
> I'm thinking about picking a single race, but can't decide between terran and zerg. I've got a bit bored of deathballing with protoss or maybe I just played it too much. I get most wins with zerg, but I find terran more fun/diverse although more frustrating at the same time.


It took me two reads to find the hidden patch zerg link. People on B.Net can be quite witty.

As for race choice, if you really don't want to be the master race, I would say go Terran. It's (IMO) the most variable in it's play. I mean, Protoss is 100% predictable, zerg needs to build on creep yet still has the option to come out with surprise baneling all ins, Terran can just supply depot wall, scan and know wth is going on.

Terran EZ race









>note: drunk and bias, so take with grain of salt. But seriously, if in bronze league learn macro, build moar probes, win, and then eventually get promoted. I wish i could check up on how many games i played in bronze, but I swear it was crap ton!

>>not sure if I have sworn. (sworn?).
>>>apparently feces is non acceptable


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385876


even though I never feared reading wall of text i really really still gotta say...

DUDE THAT'S A LOT OF WORDS

took me like an hour...AND I started slacking off and skipping bits starting when I was at like 75%....


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G.E.Nauticus*
> 
> Last nights stream went good. I think i lost 2 matches and moved from 30 silver to 30 gold. Woot!
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/nauticus945/b/355916916


So you go for baneling busts every game?


----------



## G.E.Nauticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> So you go for baneling busts every game?


That's what I open with. My late game lacks now I'm getting into baneling/Speedling opener to Roach infestor but still not to good with indfestors so my mid.late game Is still lacking. My worst is deff zvz.


----------



## Anti!!

Yukks, you need to allow peeps to whisper you. I cant add you. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385876


I just read the entire article. I don't know if I agree to the fact that Blizzard did it intentionally, or if they did it because they are just stupid. It's kind of sad either way. Glad I stopped playing this game when I did, was already feeling pretty crushed as a Terran player, and everyone knows how loyal I was to my race.


----------



## Sainesk

I kind of disagree with that thread - maybe i'm an exception, but the majority of my favorite pros are Korean (and yes i'm white). If Blizz is intentionally making the game unbalanced, I reckon it's to add a whole element of the underdog race(s) to make pro matches more exciting; unless everyone switches race...







I do hope that they are actually trying to balance the game though and making mistakes, and not just thinking about maximizing profits.


----------



## 13321G4

It's just a complete bogus article.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah which is why I said I don't know if I believe his theory about the foreigners, but I do agree with his balance problems.


----------



## 13321G4

The balance is very fragile.

Before people used infestors what were the options for Zergs? Personally as a Protoss I felt like PvZ meant survive till max and then roll. Same applied for TvZ, where all terran units were that much more efficient than anything that Z (baneling landmines though







)had to offer. Oh, and muta's but that crap OP. (Joke, I just hate dealing with muta's.)

With infestor (and fast Broodlord) usage zerg finally has an extremely efficient unit, arguably to efficient (free units TT).

For balance I would say there isn't much going on. Whether the game is fun though is something else. Fungal (like FF) doesn't allow much micro from the opponent. Infested terrans are very efficient and relatively cheap in the energy count.

Blizzard has been applying some very small, but in my view critical, nerfs and buffs, which make the game a lot better.


----------



## DoomDash

The infestor is way too efficient, I don't think touching up other things is helping, its just avoiding the problem. Zerg was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be back before the Infestor was figured out. I can't say I've seen any good direction from them.


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone watching Iron Squid Ro8?

3 foreingers - all zerg, 5 koreans. Overall 6 zergs, 1 t, 1 p.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> The balance is very fragile.
> 
> Before people used infestors what were the options for Zergs? Personally as a Protoss I felt like PvZ meant survive till max and then roll. Same applied for TvZ, where all terran units were that much more efficient than anything that Z (baneling landmines though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )had to offer. Oh, and muta's but that crap OP. (Joke, I just hate dealing with muta's.)
> 
> With infestor (and fast Broodlord) usage zerg finally has an extremely efficient unit, arguably to efficient (free units TT).
> 
> For balance I would say there isn't much going on. Whether the game is fun though is something else. Fungal (like FF) doesn't allow much micro from the opponent. Infested terrans are very efficient and relatively cheap in the energy count.
> 
> Blizzard has been applying some very small, but in my view critical, nerfs and buffs, which make the game a lot better.


i ALWAYS use, inmortal sentrie all in, or inmortals, sentrie chagelots, is way to powerful againts zerg..


----------



## Bezna

was few seaons i was in bronze and couldnt get out...
placed in silver with this patch... got up to Rank 1 in silver... cant wait to get home to play

thats if my folding doesnt get in me way!!!


----------



## Bezna

I also love charge zeolots!!! FUN


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yukks, you need to allow peeps to whisper you. I cant add you. lol


my bad, i will add you later anyway


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> The balance is very fragile.
> 
> Before people used infestors what were the options for Zergs? Personally as a Protoss I felt like PvZ meant survive till max and then roll. Same applied for TvZ, where all terran units were that much more efficient than anything that Z (baneling landmines though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )had to offer. Oh, and muta's but that crap OP. (Joke, I just hate dealing with muta's.)
> 
> With infestor (and fast Broodlord) usage zerg finally has an extremely efficient unit, arguably to efficient (free units TT).
> 
> For balance I would say there isn't much going on. Whether the game is fun though is something else. Fungal (like FF) doesn't allow much micro from the opponent. Infested terrans are very efficient and relatively cheap in the energy count.
> 
> Blizzard has been applying some very small, but in my view critical, nerfs and buffs, which make the game a lot better.
> 
> 
> 
> i ALWAYS use, inmortal sentrie all in, or inmortals, sentrie chagelots, is way to powerful againts zerg..
Click to expand...

Zerg is extremely powerful, and the immortal sentry all-in is also extremely strong, yet you don't see it in top level games any more, probably just as often as you would see a four gate in PvP. I find it exceptionally interesting that the majority of the players are currently going for a stargate based army, usually 5 phoenix and a VR follow up. I don't know why but it's what I've been seeing in gsl and proleague.

I know someone else who also goes immortal sentry or 8 gate all-in, but I don't like all-ins. In any form or shape. Personally I'm trying to refine immortal, chargelot, (sentry), high templar. I feel it's the strongest ground army, cost wise. Scouting against muta's and broodlord timing is critical though ofcourse.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Zerg is extremely powerful, and the immortal sentry all-in is also extremely strong, yet you don't see it in top level games any more, probably just as often as you would see a four gate in PvP. I find it exceptionally interesting that the majority of the players are currently going for a stargate based army, usually 5 phoenix and a VR follow up. I don't know why but it's what I've been seeing in gsl and proleague.
> 
> I know someone else who also goes immortal sentry or 8 gate all-in, but I don't like all-ins. In any form or shape. Personally I'm trying to refine immortal, chargelot, (sentry), high templar. I feel it's the strongest ground army, cost wise. Scouting against muta's and broodlord timing is critical though ofcourse.


one advised for you, when you push with you first inmortals sentry army, you should have at least 6 or 8 sentries, and some zelots but THEN, when you need backup from your proxy pylon or warp prism (i preffer warp prism) warp in only zelots, and some stalkers, if you warp in only sentries you indded will have forcefields but no range units to do damage, and remember zelots can be used as forcefield-ataccking units..


----------



## FrankoNL

Losing a lot now in platinum .... sigh .... i think i'm having one of those bad days where you think to yourself .. why am i even trying


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Losing a lot now in platinum .... sigh .... i think i'm having one of those bad days where you think to yourself .. why am i even trying


I have a 62.5% percent win/loss ratio in plat right now. lol

I believe im gonna try for masters this season.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I have a 62.5% percent win/loss ratio in plat right now. lol
> 
> I believe im gonna try for masters this season.


>.>

I have no shame...

double post for the loss.


----------



## Yukss

im leveling two accouts for some friends, im current top 1 gold in one and top 1 platinum in the other.. is very easy, i lost 1 game every 10 games or so.. but again, when, when i play my own account i hardly win







.. maybe i need more pratice with ppl better than me in custom matches...


----------



## 13321G4

Or you should just ladder more on your own account, watch replays and see what you can do better. At least then you know for sure you are facing people that are your level









How good is your chronoboost management?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Or you should just ladder more on your own account, watch replays and see what you can do better. At least then you know for sure you are facing people that are your level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How good is your chronoboost management?


i use it everytime i have energy, easy as that.. im playing rigth now .. i will be in ocn channel (overclock.net)


----------



## FrankoNL

nope. can't win anymore ... think i belong in gold .. plat way to high for me


----------



## FrankoNL

I'll post a replay .. maybe tomorrow!







pls give me some good critisism


----------



## Bezna

i know i belong in Gold too.... lol


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Ever since I moved up to high Silver, ZvT went from being my best matchup to my worst. All of a sudden everyone goes mech and I can't seem to win no matter what. I've read various guides but nothing has been working for me. My 50+ lings die instantly in engagements, banelings never do enough damage, brood lords also don't seem to deal enough damage, and I have yet to get out ultras before a crippling attack.

Anyone have some advice on dealing with this style of play? At what point do you commit to going heavy on roaches? That seems to be my biggest problem because so often they will turtle on two base, with turrets and tanks everywhere to deny scouting, while harassing with banshees and drops. By the time they march out between 15 and 20 minutes and I get a chance to see their composition it's generally too late because I have too many mutas and lings to deal with their harass, I don't have enough roaches, and my hive tech is only coming up.

I realize that the answer is generally to take bases all over the map and I've had games where I was on 5 bases against 3 but still manage to lose to this composition because their army reaches a critical mass that I can't seem to do enough damage to it.


----------



## Yukss

Hello guys, i want to share a troll play i always do againt zergs, just for fun, i did this with my friend´s platinum account, but also works in master league, just because is to funky and weird...

The whole point is to deny expo, so the enemy will use mass roaches, mutas or nydus, if you see mass roaches just forcefiled the ramp forever..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Hello guys, i want to share a troll play i always do againt zergs, just for fun, i did this with my friend´s platinum account, but also works in master league, just because is to funky and weird...
> 
> The whole point is to deny expo, so the enemy will use mass roaches, mutas or nydus, if you see mass roaches just forcefiled the ramp forever..
> 
> Descargas.zip 77k .zip file


They never roach burrow?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They never roach burrow?


by the time he has burrow i already have 2 or 3 voids.... check out those replays


----------



## Yukss

lol image a friend sent me some time ago


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> lol image a friend sent me some time ago


Oh, ok. I haven't watched yet.

That pic his hilarious! Haha

Also, I intend to practice with some of you high diamonds and masters peeps. It's time to smash this out of the park.


----------



## Bezna

i always feel like void's take too long to mass up


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vio2700k*
> 
> i always feel like void's take too long to mass up


no need to mass up.. at this point 3 or 4 is gg.. just take a look of those replays


----------



## 13321G4

Wooo

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/8397165
Quote:


> Zerg
> 
> Infested Terrans no longer gain weapon and armor upgrades.


All you haters saying blizzard doesn't care, Infestors can't really get any weaker.
---
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Or you should just ladder more on your own account, watch replays and see what you can do better. At least then you know for sure you are facing people that are your level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How good is your chronoboost management?
> 
> 
> 
> i use it everytime i have energy, easy as that.. im playing rigth now .. i will be in ocn channel (overclock.net)
Click to expand...

That sounds about right. I need to work on chronoboosting. There is honestly so much I should do whilst macro'ing, I don't really understand why I don't. Guess I try to play too relaxed??? :S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> nope. can't win anymore ... think i belong in gold .. plat way to high for me


That's what I felt when I got promoted to diamond, but then I got demoted to plat (cuz I played for ****) and then I realized that plat was far too easy.

Don't tell your self you don't deserve plat-league. You are plat. If you really want to improve try to optimize your BO's or get a better game plan.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Wooo
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/8397165
> All you haters saying blizzard doesn't care, Infestors can't really get any weaker.


Unless they did no damage. Which 40% of the sc2 pop would love.. "Holding in place is OP enough!!" Im so sick of it..


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Hello guys, i want to share a troll play i always do againt zergs, just for fun, i did this with my friend´s platinum account, but also works in master league, just because is to funky and weird...
> 
> The whole point is to deny expo, so the enemy will use mass roaches, mutas or nydus, if you see mass roaches just forcefiled the ramp forever..
> 
> Descargas.zip 77k .zip file


Are you using a maphack?


----------



## SeD669

Comes out on my B'day







Gona smash the single-player!!


----------



## 13321G4

Woot, back to diamond! Lets see if I can hold on this time








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Wooo
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/8397165
> All you haters saying blizzard doesn't care, Infestors can't really get any weaker.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they did no damage. Which 40% of the sc2 pop would love.. "Holding in place is OP enough!!" Im so sick of it..
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this.

Are you saying that you are sick of the rooting, or of all the complaining. If the second I completely agree with you. I believe the top players have figured out how to win PvZ. (Which is weirdly enough chargelot heavy :S ) But you played terran so not quite sure.

I also think the strength of Terran is in it's maneuverability, like dodging out of storms, which fungal does completely negate... So.......


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Woot, back to diamond! Lets see if I can hold on this time tongue.gif


congratz dude.. keeping going..









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Are you using a maphack?


what ? LOL--- im not a hacker... and i do not know if this maphack thing really exist in sc2.. and why did you say that...? explain..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Woot, back to diamond! Lets see if I can hold on this time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure how to interpret this.
> 
> Are you saying that you are sick of the rooting, or of all the complaining. If the second I completely agree with you. I believe the top players have figured out how to win PvZ. (Which is weirdly enough chargelot heavy :S ) But you played terran so not quite sure.
> 
> I also think the strength of Terran is in it's maneuverability, like dodging out of storms, which fungal does completely negate... So.......


I was quoting what I read on bnet. I think it ludicrous. So, yes I am sick to death of the complaining.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> what ? LOL--- im not a hacker... and i do not know if this maphack thing really exist in sc2.. and why did you say that...? explain..


In the second game you blindly reinforce the wall with gateways and pylons as soon as your opponent gets baneling nest, but you don't do this in the other games. In the third game you build cannons in your mineral lines and start phoenixes after your opponent drops a spire. All this without any scouting. In all three games your macro does not look like master level play (supply blocks, floating tons of money). No offence just my impression from watching these three games briefly, maybe you just have a really good game sense.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> In the second game you blindly reinforce the wall with gateways and pylons as soon as your opponent gets baneling nest, but you don't do this in the other games. In the third game you build cannons in your mineral lines and start phoenixes after your opponent drops a spire. All this without any scouting. In all three games your macro does not look like master level play (supply blocks, floating tons of money). No offence just my impression from watching these three games briefly, maybe you just have a really good game sense.


good point, but what else a blocked zerg can do? banes, mutas or nydus, i have lost a lot doing this trolling game.. no need to macro in "master" level because this is a troll gaming mode.. i want you to know people actually gets master or even GM by cannorushin or 6 pooling.. and my personal experience is that ppl in diamond or even top plats have better macro than some masters players.. i got master for the very first time last season, so chill out.. i have also seen ppl in gold or below with more than 150 apms and still lose againt ppl with 80 amps or less

ps. in one of those replays, one zerg dropped a nydus in my base, i barely hold that one with a single voidray.. SO, if i was cheating how i let that happend ?


----------



## Bezna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Comes out on my B'day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gona smash the single-player!!


i'm excited for it too!!!


----------



## OkanG

Guys, whenever I get to late game, I lose. I play Zerg. It's like when I hit mid to late game, the game just decides to hate me, and I end up losing almost no matter what







What to do?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Guys, whenever I get to late game, I lose. I play Zerg. It's like when I hit mid to late game, the game just decides to hate me, and I end up losing almost no matter what
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What to do?


wait... late game with zerg and still lose ? what about gglords ? (broodlords + infestors)


----------



## OkanG

I just.. Forget to tech up, I guess









I did get a good amount of Infestors out because he just mass marined, but I didn't really know what to pair them with. Should my comp just be Broodlords + Corruptors with infestors if they're good against the enemy comp?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I just.. Forget to tech up, I guess
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did get a good amount of Infestors out because he just mass marined, but I didn't really know what to pair them with. Should my comp just be Broodlords + Corruptors with infestors if they're good against the enemy comp?


Of course.. that's all zerg about.. i only counter that with mass blink stalkers, archons, and mamaship


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Of course.. that's all zerg about.. i only counter that with mass blink stalkers, archons, and mamaship


def not all zerg is about. lol

But the best for sure.


----------



## SeD669

Broodlords + Corruptors is the money-shot if you tech up quick enough. I was only a Gold player tho so thats as far as i know


----------



## FrankoNL

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. I really need help. I can't seem to win anymore ... I lose every single game. Went from rank 9 plat to rank 50.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. I really need help. I can't seem to win anymore ... I lose every single game. Went from rank 9 plat to rank 50.


which race do you play ? againts which race you lose the most ? againts which combinations of army you lost the most ? do you frequently scout the enemy base ? do you expand while you are doing your fisrt attack of after hold the first wave ?

im current top 1 plat with another account trying to get diamond to my friend, maybe i can help you a bit


----------



## FrankoNL

I play Protoss. The matchup i lose the most is PvP or TvP. TvZ is better for me, but i have problems with roach max out of 3 bases. The same goes for terran when they go for mec / mass banshee's. I just don't know how to recognize it or how to respond.

I try to scout a lot. But i must admit that when i am focussing heavily on my macro .. my scouting slips.









Last game PvP: I scout after 13 gate. I see no chrono on his nexus and 2 gasses with my probe, so i was not scared of any early push / rushes. I take my robo and 3 gates and expand. After that i hold of his push barely ... by the skin of my teeth. I get my second robo and start to build collosus, then i take my 3rd base ( after i see him taking his 3rd first ). Again i think i am safe for now. I already had my forge out and was working on +1 attack.

Then suddenly he is at my ramp with 2 colossus more and more stalkers while he was expanding. And i'm dead. And i am like: Ok what the hell just happened?







(Ok, not really. I am really susceptible to raging at moments like this)

I normally expand when i "feel" i can. But since i am losing so much i just take my expansion as soon as i see him taking his. I hardly ever attack first ... at least not for the first 10/13 minutes.

It's so frigging frustrating that it just takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Stresses me out a bit.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I play Protoss. The matchup i lose the most is PvP or TvP. TvZ is better for me, but i have problems with roach max out of 3 bases. The same goes for terran when they go for mec / mass banshee's. I just don't know how to recognize it or how to respond.
> 
> I try to scout a lot. But i must admit that when i am focussing heavily on my macro .. my scouting slips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last game PvP: I scout after 13 gate. I see no chrono on his nexus and 2 gasses with my probe, so i was not scared of any early push / rushes. I take my robo and 3 gates and expand. After that i hold of his push barely ... by the skin of my teeth. I get my second robo and start to build collosus, then i take my 3rd base ( after i see him taking his 3rd first ). Again i think i am safe for now. I already had my forge out and was working on +1 attack.
> 
> Then suddenly he is at my ramp with 2 colossus more and more stalkers while he was expanding. And i'm dead. And i am like: Ok what the hell just happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ok, not really. I am really susceptible to raging at moments like this)
> 
> I normally expand when i "feel" i can. But since i am losing so much i just take my expansion as soon as i see him taking his. I hardly ever attack first ... at least not for the first 10/13 minutes.
> 
> It's so frigging frustrating that it just takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Stresses me out a bit.


In the game you described, did you scout when he expanded? What build he was doing? Were you surprised by his attack?

If you play and think you are safe to expand, you shouldn't 3 gate robo expand. 3 gate robo expand is for if you think a ton of pressure is going to come your way. Much more common is either a 1 gate robo or 2 gate expand, which, with the information you scouted, is perfectly safe.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I play Protoss. The matchup i lose the most is PvP or TvP. TvZ is better for me, but i have problems with roach max out of 3 bases. The same goes for terran when they go for mec / mass banshee's. I just don't know how to recognize it or how to respond.
> 
> I try to scout a lot. But i must admit that when i am focussing heavily on my macro .. my scouting slips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last game PvP: I scout after 13 gate. I see no chrono on his nexus and 2 gasses with my probe, so i was not scared of any early push / rushes. I take my robo and 3 gates and expand. After that i hold of his push barely ... by the skin of my teeth. I get my second robo and start to build collosus, then i take my 3rd base ( after i see him taking his 3rd first ). Again i think i am safe for now. I already had my forge out and was working on +1 attack.
> 
> Then suddenly he is at my ramp with 2 colossus more and more stalkers while he was expanding. And i'm dead. And i am like: Ok what the hell just happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ok, not really. I am really susceptible to raging at moments like this)
> 
> I normally expand when i "feel" i can. But since i am losing so much i just take my expansion as soon as i see him taking his. I hardly ever attack first ... at least not for the first 10/13 minutes.
> 
> It's so frigging frustrating that it just takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Stresses me out a bit.


PvP is alll about who has more colos.. you should get at least 2 observers around and some pylons to check his moves and expos, my best match is pvp and pvz. Pvt i got mad about those early pushes. We should play

[email protected]

Real id


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> In the game you described, did you scout when he expanded? What build he was doing? Were you surprised by his attack?
> 
> If you play and think you are safe to expand, you shouldn't 3 gate robo expand. 3 gate robo expand is for if you think a ton of pressure is going to come your way. Much more common is either a 1 gate robo or 2 gate expand, which, with the information you scouted, is perfectly safe.


Yes i was very surprised. Maybe because my scouting slipped. The thing is with the builds. I don't really know how to recognize them. As for my own build: i have a general idea of what i am doing but i dont know the specific timings.

hmm that's interesting. 1 gate robo or 2 gates is better then 3 gate robo expand. I think i just build 3 gateways because i am scared as hell









@ yukks

I will add you. Which server do you play on?

just for your enjoyment .. my last PvZ match .. which i actually won









http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22164626/PVZ.SC2Replay

and a pvt .. which i actually lost .. im sorry .. terran is just op









http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22164626/pvt.SC2Replay

And last but not least .. a pvt which i believe i played pretty decent in







Scouted his early push and managed to hold it off twice. Got storm and it was pretty much over.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22164626/PvT%20decent.SC2Replay


----------



## Yukss

NA account. I will be i the ocn channel in 30min (overclock.net)


----------



## FrankoNL

Then i guess it won't work. I'm on the EU server .. we really need cross server play!


----------



## Anti!!

Time for some pointers. Sure wish Heazy was arround. He is masters zerg. I need critic from somone above diamond. Legit above diamond.

http://drop.sc/296243

ALl watchers welcome though.


----------



## FrankoNL

Not to get in your way Anti!!, but if someone has time to watch and comment on my replays i posted earlier, i would be very grateful


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Not to get in your way Anti!!, but if someone has time to watch and comment on my replays i posted earlier, i would be very grateful


i will look at them this evening.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Time for some pointers. Sure wish Heazy was arround. He is masters zerg. I need critic from somone above diamond. Legit above diamond.
> 
> http://drop.sc/296243
> 
> ALl watchers welcome though.


hello mate, i saw you yesterady in the ocn channel, i was using a friend's account (PLOMOJCJC) i invited you to play but you did not answer me ;(

i will check your replays when i get home


----------



## FrankoNL

I must say: i compliment everyone in this thread ... very friendly


----------



## Anti!!

ALrighty franky,

You seem to have the general game fundamentals down. You seem to know your builds ok. In the pvt where you lost your macro was decent also.

All i can say is MICRO MICRO MICRO. You had enough storms to kill his army 3 times over, but you would rush in and hope for the best. You have to try and bait him into storms. Do a little dance with him. Your micro will mean the difference between living and dying.

Also, you chrono management could use a little work. For example, there was one time you lost your army in the middle and the terran could have 1a and won, but chose not to. You warped in on your 11 gates, but didnt chrono all your gateways that way you could get a second wave of warpins. This could mean the difference between life and death. Speed that cool down up.









AND MAP AWARNESS! This includes, how many bases your opponent has. Is he mined out? What size, and where is his army at all times. Observers are like map hacks use em more than just one a game.

You had 75 probes to 35 scvs on that terran.

He was mined out to one base. Then you were down to one base and he was then no bases, and you lost your army at his ramp, on accident im sure, but this falls under micro again. You had the ability to make another army where as he did not. He was making no money. lol Dont rage, or give up. Keep tabs on the situation. You wouldnt believe the game i win cause i hang in there. The one i linked is prime example.

So, in closing you make the right compositions. Its hard not to with brotoss. lol But a little more patience, and making full use of your units, especially your casters, and AOE dealers, and I believe you will see a vast improvement in your success rate!

Good luck out there. Maybe i can help you practice sometime.


----------



## FrankoNL

First of all: thank you very much for the feedback!

I have been focussing on my macro a lot lately, getting my economy up and making sure my builds are "decent". Not that i know specific timings / supplies for building stuff .. but i just have a general idea of what i need to do. So it is with a lot of satisfaction that someone else notices that i am pretty decent at this









My micro sucks, you are right about that. I mostly just a move or spam storms .. i don't really try to micro certain units within a fight. That's a good point i need to work on!

Scouting / map awareness: Thanks for the heads up on that! When i think about it i indeed barely use my observers to scout his bases. I had a feeling that he was on one or two bases max but i did not know for sure. In a lot of games i totally get caught of guard when i realize he has an extra base somewhere. For example .. i had no idea i had such a vast workers lead. I could have just build more gates and steamrolled him ....

Chrono: also a very good point. In the beginning of the game, when i am setting up my economy i use the chrono a lot .. but later on in the game, when i am more focussed on getting my army up and fighting my opponent i lose track of my chrono. The chronoing of my gates is a very good tip! I never think of that. I will try to use that more often!

Did you have any tips on the other two games?









I will add you tonight when i get home! Maybe we can practice or play some 2v2's

@ Antii

I won 13 of my last 16 games ... your advice helps a lot


----------



## yks

I feel like a stranger here now, T_T!


----------



## poroboszcz

I'm at IEM Poland. It's awesome! Hope Dream wins it all.


----------



## cory1234

I want to get back into SC2 by getting into the beta of Heart of the Swarm. What is the quickest method to get a beta key? I called Gamestop and they are out of beta keys. Amazon says 5-8 days on their site. Please help.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cory1234*
> 
> I want to get back into SC2 by getting into the beta of Heart of the Swarm. What is the quickest method to get a beta key? I called Gamestop and they are out of beta keys. Amazon says 5-8 days on their site. Please help.


not 100% sure, but doesn't Blizz give a key if you pre-order directly from them? also, coolermaster is doing a facebook giveaway of some keys as an alternative you can try...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'm at IEM Poland. It's awesome! Hope Dream wins it all.


I'm jelly, wonder if we'll ever get a tournament here in Canada...


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cory1234*
> 
> I want to get back into SC2 by getting into the beta of Heart of the Swarm. What is the quickest method to get a beta key? I called Gamestop and they are out of beta keys. Amazon says 5-8 days on their site. Please help.
> 
> 
> 
> not 100% sure, but doesn't Blizz give a key if you pre-order directly from them? also, coolermaster is doing a facebook giveaway of some keys as an alternative you can try...
Click to expand...

What i've heard is that Amazon is very fast with the delivering their pre-orders beta-keys, while Blizzard takes a lot longer.
haven't bought HOTS my self yet though.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'm at IEM Poland. It's awesome! Hope Dream wins it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm jelly, wonder if we'll ever get a tournament here in Canada...
Click to expand...

Isn't MLG very often in Toronto?


----------



## FrankoNL

Ok, i've been having trouble with pvz ... i am just to passive. He can drone up and do whatever he wants.

Last game i went 7 gates and a robo and just steamrolled him. Did not know that worked so nicely


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Ok, i've been having trouble with pvz ... i am just to passive. He can drone up and do whatever he wants.
> 
> Last game i went 7 gates and a robo and just steamrolled him. Did not know that worked so nicely


That is the last thing a zerg would want you to do. Lol


----------



## FrankoNL

Yeahhh, i tried to go to a quick third last game. Did not go so well.









Won9 out of my last 11 games though!

Top 5 plat right now


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yeahhh, i tried to go to a quick third last game. Did not go so well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Won9 out of my last 11 games though!
> 
> Top 5 plat right now


It is time i show you the ways of the swarm...


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yeahhh, i tried to go to a quick third last game. Did not go so well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Won9 out of my last 11 games though!
> 
> Top 5 plat right now


nice.....:!!!!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Not sure if this has been posted here yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVbeoSPqRs4


----------



## OkanG

I've won against a couple of mid-golds now. I really like Day9's "Newbie Tuesday" videos, very informative


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Not sure if this has been posted here yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVbeoSPqRs4


DOWN WITH MENGSK!!!!


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It is time i show you the ways of the swarm...


Haha I'm scared now!! don't want to get my ass kicked haha! But we could play a game or two soon! I'll add you, if i don't forget again.









@ Yukks: Tnx









Question of a different nature:

When i take a quick third, my zerg opponent just gets a 4th and / or 5th and just steamsrolls me with roaches and muta's. How do i solve this problem? Maybe i need to harrass his bases more? Since i don't do that at all.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Haha I'm scared now!! don't want to get my ass kicked haha! But we could play a game or two soon! I'll add you, if i don't forget again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ Yukks: Tnx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question of a different nature:
> 
> When i take a quick third, my zerg opponent just gets a 4th and / or 5th and just steamsrolls me with roaches and muta's. How do i solve this problem? Maybe i need to harrass his bases more? Since i don't do that at all.


You are EU aren't you? poo if you are. We will meet up in HoTs i suppose.


----------



## OkanG

Promoted to silver!!! Not when I beat a mid plat player twice. Or when I beat several gold and top silver players. But I got promoted the one time I played against a top bronze player.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Haha I'm scared now!! don't want to get my ass kicked haha! But we could play a game or two soon! I'll add you, if i don't forget again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ Yukks: Tnx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question of a different nature:
> 
> When i take a quick third, my zerg opponent just gets a 4th and / or 5th and just steamsrolls me with roaches and muta's. How do i solve this problem? Maybe i need to harrass his bases more? Since i don't do that at all.


You should check out the way Sage harasses in PvZ, it's some of the best I've seen. Here's his stream: http://www.twitch.tv/sc2sage/. If you check the recent videos, you'll probably see some really epic games he's played against Scarlett in the last week.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You are EU aren't you? poo if you are. We will meet up in HoTs i suppose.


Yeahh i am EU


----------



## VaiFanatic

Need some good suggestions on openers for all three races. Been playing random in a lot of 3s lately to get better overall, but I always seem to get caught with my pants down.

Zerg is by far my strongest race, has been since the first game. But lately, 9-pooling, focusing on eco, and hatching mutas by 7 minutes just isn't working the way it used to. I've been out of the RTS thing for a while, so my macro-skills have gone down.

It's amazing, because I never thought I'd have to learn something or be taught something, but I'm willing to admit I need to do just that.


----------



## FrankoNL

Ok. Terran is just not for me, i don't really like the race. But i do want to give zerg a try without completely destroying my MMR. Does anyone have an idea what is the best way to take a look at a different race?


----------



## TwistedTime

Either test it out in 2vs2 or something like that or wait for HotS where we should get unranked 1vs1 for those that just want to mess around or try a different race without tanking their rank.


----------



## OkanG

I'm getting an "Language Pack Required" error







I was able to play earlier today, but now I can't. Seems on the Battle.net forums like it's a known issue.


----------



## Dezixn

I'm casually getting back into SC2 and have been playing some 4v4, 3v3 and 2v2 for fun. I'm a decent player but I'm no korean, I'm staying a bit casual (focusing on Dota2) and haven't played seriously in a while. If anyone else wants to screw around in some team games. My game name is Dezix, I think that's how you add people nowadays, I don't remember. Gimme your info as long as you're not ******ed at SC2 and want to do some team games.
I don't know if you guys got an OCN in game channel going or not for SC2. I know we do for Dota2, but everyone in there was bad


----------



## FrankoNL

Yup same, can't play.


----------



## OkanG

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6444125342?page=11#219

Might wanna look into this thread. I'm going to bed anyways. Hope it works tomorrow. Wanna keep my 14 win-streak going


----------



## FrankoNL

I'm in now







... Playing custom games zerg right now. Ok i'm not good at playing zerg but when you are terran and only have 7 marauders at 9 minutes ... u are gonna get owned by my drones, im sorry sir.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I'm in now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... Playing custom games zerg right now. Ok i'm not good at playing zerg but when you are terran and only have 7 marauders at 9 minutes ... u are gonna get owned by my drones, im sorry sir.


Thats a true zerg at heart! lollllll

Diamond welcomes me back. Lets see what masters has to say about it now!


----------



## FrankoNL

Gratsss!!









I think i'm just gonna practice builds vs AI. Starting with the 3 hatch opener against toss. After that i'll try openers against terran and Zerg. I pretty much have no idea what i'm doing at this point.

Ohh .. maybe i should get a gass. Hmmmm shall i go to lair? That kind of stuff.

PS. you should have seen the guy, it was so funny. All of the sudden i noticed he proxied 2 rax at my third. So i was like: holy crap.

After 8 minutes the first marauders came, and the dude went: holy crap how can you be so fast?!


----------



## Anti!!

I think you should stay toss. So many zerg switchers already


----------



## FrankoNL

mwhaaaa, i don't know which will be my main. But even if i choose not to stay zerg, i at least know more about their gass timings etc.


----------



## Anti!!

Sounds good to me


----------



## FrankoNL

Now i just need to start over from scratch with Zerg









So much to pay attention to early game. When to get your queens. When to get your overlords. Oh wait, i must not forget to inject. When do i take my gasses.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Now i just need to start over from scratch with Zerg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much to pay attention to early game. When to get your queens. When to get your overlords. Oh wait, i must not forget to inject. When do i take my gasses.


Not to mention Overlords placements, what you can read from what little Terran/Protoss buildings/units you will be able to see, when it is safe to drone...

I really need to get into SC2 Multiplayer, especially with HotS coming out so soon.


----------



## FrankoNL

Against toss its like: no 3rd from toss at 8 / 9 minutes? ... Get a crap load of units. Is he taking a 3rd? Get your 4th and tech up. Vs terran i dont know yet


----------



## FrankoNL

Just for your information. If you want to smurf on a different server on the same account. try this relocator:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=357860

Works amazing. I now have a character on US and on EU ... with the same account!!!

Just start the relocator as administrator and make sure the .agent db file is marked as unhidden!!!

Now i can smurf zerg


----------



## 13321G4

You then still need to buy SC on NA as well as on EU

You shouldn't be able to play multiplayer on NA.


----------



## FrankoNL

Uhmmm i am ...







I can play on both EU and US. Try it! Apparently ... they already fixed the global play in the background. At first i thought u needed 2 accounts too. But the streamer said no you can use 1 account and play on both NA and EU

Lots of streamers use it too

Just do it as i said in my post before, change the region to AM. ( run program as administrator ) and make sure that you make that file unhidden!! that is very important!

After that, download the US files ( automatic after u open sc2 ) and play!









Proof: My new character on the US server on the same account!



Just remember to change it back via the relocator when you want to play EU again.


----------



## Sainesk

Wonder if Blizz would switch my Korean/Taiwan accounts to the English versions with global play coming soon if I asked nicely... my guides on how to make them are gonna be useless too shortly







oh well, it'll be nice not having to state/ask what region everyone's in.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Wonder if Blizz would switch my Korean/Taiwan accounts to the English versions with global play coming soon if I asked nicely... my guides on how to make them are gonna be useless too shortly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well, it'll be nice not having to state/ask what region everyone's in.


I made a video of this sometime ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhZ532PAoPw&list=UUBJVkMjabUYNq9GyzCmjPjw&index=5
Very easy to do !

Also wanted to share this with you guys


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> I'm getting an "Language Pack Required" error
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to play earlier today, but now I can't. Seems on the Battle.net forums like it's a known issue.


i can help you, does your account is US or EU??

anyway, go to my documents/starcraft2/variables.txt
In the variables.txt file, the following lines control your game client's language:

localeidassets=enUS
localeiddata=enUS

make sure the above lines are the same if your account is US

ps.. in escense, when you download the game it contains ALL languages, the variables.txt file will "open" the game according the server,location you bougth the game, in my case i change mine to:

localeidassets=esMX
localeiddata=eSMX

In order to play my LA account, for korea is as follows:

localeidassets=zhTW

here is the full list for any language:

Regional Language

The Americas

American English - enUS
Latin American Spanish - esMX
Brazilian Portuguese - ptBR

Europe

German - deDE
European English - enGB
European Spanish - esES
French - frFR
Italian - itIT
Polish - plPL
Portuguese - ptPT
Russian - ruRU

Korea

Korean - koKR

Taiwan

Traditional Chinese - zhTW
localeiddata=zhTW

ps: if you have different accounts (NA,LA,EU and so on) you have to change the variables.txt file everytime you want to change from one account to another, i have a shortcut to the variables,txt file in my desktop in order to change it fast


----------



## Ergates

Crikey, a lot of you guys are good, really good. I'm just a newbie bronze, I've only been playing RTS for a month and a half now, last two weeks online.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Crikey, a lot of you guys are good, really good. I'm just a newbie bronze, I've only been playing RTS for a month and a half now, last two weeks online.


It took me forever to get out of bronze, by the time I did I was at like 70 APM, which is silly high for bronze and went straight to gold. Now I do not play 1v1 enough to rank up but I go against high plat when I do and win.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm plat and my APM is around 70 but I don't spam at all


----------



## Anti!!

im about 100


----------



## CravinR1

I spike 2-300 later in the game but my beginning average is 20-30


----------



## TranquilTempest

If anyone wants to play HotS, SoulWager#712


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Well today I had my first ZvZ against a platinum player and won. It was kind of funny because it was my 70 APM against his 150. Moved up to rank 1 silver as well, hopefully a promotion is coming.

Can anyone comment on whether the matchmaking system intentionally gives you a certain matchup more often than others if you win or lose for multiple games in a row? I remember when I was about to get promoted out of bronze, ZvT was my best and I kept getting that matchup. In silver, ZvT became my worst and it seemed like after the system figured out I am likely to lose against a T with similar MMR, it started giving me less of them. Now that ZvZ has become my best I keep getting matched up with Z, while ZvT has become the least common.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> It took me forever to get out of bronze, by the time I did I was at like 70 APM, which is silly high for bronze and went straight to gold. Now I do not play 1v1 enough to rank up but I go against high plat when I do and win.


Hehehe, thanks! I think I'm at about 30 right now, and that's come up a lot. Watching a lot of filtersc's videos and doing his lessons. Also GLNicoLoco. They've made a big improvement in my gaming.


----------



## 13321G4

I'm at about 80 and i feel so slow


----------



## Yukss

double post


----------



## Yukss

lol im masters and my apms avg is 70+/- and i dont feel shame about it..

ps, spam is good at begging to heat up your finguers but useless after that , you get tired after 10 games in a row, EPM is the important thing here EPM means efective actions per min.. spawming were "good" in BW times, not anymore. we now have rally points and **** + target move, destinations attacks and so on


----------



## 13321G4

I just always feel like I need to do more, but never manage to get it all done... meh...


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I just always feel like I need to do more, but never manage to get it all done... meh...


Nederlands heh? Ben ik ook, maar mijn geschreven Nederlands is niet zo erg goed omdat ik in een Engels land ben opgevoed.


----------



## 13321G4

Also, OCN doesn't really like it when peeps write in non english


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Also, OCN doesn't really like it when peeps write in non english


LOL, sorry. The once only...

Must admit with the increasing power and ability of google translate it doesn't matter nearly as much as it did in the early days of forums.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Also, OCN doesn't really like it when peeps write in non english


Nov shmoz ka pop?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

This week Newegg is giving $10 off HotS pre-orders, using promo code BTEXWVM22. Both the standard and collector's edition are eligible for savings.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> This week Newegg is giving $10 off HotS pre-orders, using promo code BTEXWVM22. Both the standard and collector's edition are eligible for savings.


Tried it
Quote:


> Your email address is not valid for redemption of promo code BTEXWVM22.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Tried it


They attach the promo to the email it was originally sent to.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They attach the promo to the email it was originally sent to.










Thanks lol


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They attach the promo to the email it was originally sent to.


Not sure I'm understanding what you mean correctly but clicking through the link in the email is not actually relevant, nor will it automatically apply the promo code. I bought it by searching for the title, adding it to cart, and entering the promo code. It does appear that the code only works for some customers, which seems to be more and more the case with certain Newegg promos. FWIW I did buy something from Newegg 2 days ago and received the email this morning.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Not sure I'm understanding what you mean correctly but clicking through the link in the email is not actually relevant, nor will it automatically apply the promo code. I bought it by searching for the title, adding it to cart, and entering the promo code. It does appear that the code only works for some customers, which seems to be more and more the case with certain Newegg promos. FWIW I did buy something from Newegg 2 days ago and received the email this morning.


What i mean is they have a data base of who they send what promo to. If you are not on that email list you are sol, with select products that is. Sometimes anyone can do it, but im sure you will find they have an email they didnt know about.


----------



## poroboszcz

So I've just come back from holidays in Poland which involved being at IEM Katowice. As I already mentioned it was awesome. First event like that in Poland (which is my home country) and first live esports event for me. All I can say is: totally worth it!

Even though there were not many SC2 superstars and just few code S players it was really exciting to see all the games live. Being there with thousands of other people cheering and watching players and commentators live was just awesome experience. The crowd was great as well and really friendly. Surprisingly there were a lot of people of my age (almost 30) and older, and male/female ratio was not as bad as I expected.







In general though I should note that SC2 crowd was on average about 5 years older then LoL crowd which was also much louder.

But the best thing is that all these people came there to see esports and SC2. I don't have many friends irl which play starcraft or know anything about esports, but there everyone would know what I'm talking about. In the hotel I stayed and in the restaurants I kept meeting people from all over the world talking about computer games. I was there with my gf who was initially going to stay just for a few hours but eventually stayed the whole three days and enjoyed it, which shows that esports can be appealing even for non-gamers.

So if you have a chance to go to an event like this I totally recommend it!

Some photos:


----------



## 13321G4

Sweet


----------



## Anti!!

Wow! IEM does it right!


----------



## FrankoNL

Nice!! E sports is growing


----------



## Sainesk

So what's everyone's opinion on take control mode? at first I thought it would just be one player vs repeated actions of another player (silly), but it looks like it needs two players to replay a scenario (interesting).


----------



## 13321G4

Yeh that's super sweeet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Uhmmm i am ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can play on both EU and US. Try it! Apparently ... they already fixed the global play in the background. At first i thought u needed 2 accounts too. But the streamer said no you can use 1 account and play on both NA and EU
> 
> Lots of streamers use it too
> 
> Just do it as i said in my post before, change the region to AM. ( run program as administrator ) and make sure that you make that file unhidden!! that is very important!
> 
> After that, download the US files ( automatic after u open sc2 ) and play!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof: My new character on the US server on the same account!
> 
> Just remember to change it back via the relocator when you want to play EU again.


I was right







You weren't supposed to be able to play on NA with 'just' a EU account (I have attempted it in the past), but since you had success, and there was a recent big patch involving 'lots' of (server side) language pack errors, I was expecting some kind of Global Play with WOL. AND IT HAS COME!

Should have called it TT

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395154

I want to change my nickname, anyone got ideas? Considering Hwaiting.


----------



## FrankoNL

Yeahhhhh!! happy day


----------



## Anti!!

Only useful thing I can see with that replay bit is to be able to practice micro or macro with friends in a specific spot where you could have messed up in a practice game.

Also, did anyone else notice how much difference micro made in that zvp match up? One way the zerg owned the toss. Then when the diamonds took over the favor swung way into the tosses favor. That is a prime example of people that are not pro level should not comment on balance. Weird.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Yeh that's super sweeet.
> I was right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You weren't supposed to be able to play on NA with 'just' a EU account (I have attempted it in the past), but since you had success, and there was a recent big patch involving 'lots' of (server side) language pack errors, I was expecting some kind of Global Play with WOL. AND IT HAS COME!
> 
> Should have called it TT
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395154
> 
> I want to change my nickname, anyone got ideas? Considering Hwaiting.


Using regions.xml worked like a charm. Thanks for the link.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Only useful thing I can see with that replay bit is to be able to practice micro or macro with friends in a specific spot where you could have messed up in a practice game.
> 
> Also, did anyone else notice how much difference micro made in that zvp match up? One way the zerg owned the toss. Then when the diamonds took over the favor swung way into the tosses favor. That is a prime example of people that are not pro level should not comment on balance. Weird.


We didn't see the engagement when the pro's did it. Could be ToD got caught off guard, Or that a good flank was set up. There was no reason for the zerg to attack into the toss with what we saw.

But yes. We shouldn't whine about balance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Yeh that's super sweeet.
> I was right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You weren't supposed to be able to play on NA with 'just' a EU account (I have attempted it in the past), but since you had success, and there was a recent big patch involving 'lots' of (server side) language pack errors, I was expecting some kind of Global Play with WOL. AND IT HAS COME!
> 
> Should have called it TT
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395154
> 
> I want to change my nickname, anyone got ideas? Considering Hwaiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Using regions.xml worked like a charm. Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

Yeh surprised me to. Such a easy, allround, nonintusive, no maintenance 'fix'.


----------



## connectwise

You guys are killing esports! You should be watching Nestea vs TJ right now!


----------



## 13321G4

Team Taeja FTW

Btw, pretty hyped to finally play against all you NA peeps, BRING IT ON!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Team Taeja FTW
> 
> Btw, pretty hyped to finally play against all you NA peeps, BRING IT ON!


LOL

Leets do eiitt.

Im mid diamond now anyway. Need to practice hardcore.


----------



## FrankoNL

What do you think is a good opener for PvP?

1 gate robo expand? .. 2 gate robo expand?

I am so, so bad at PvP that i just 4gate every single time


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> What do you think is a good opener for PvP?
> 
> 1 gate robo expand? .. 2 gate robo expand?
> 
> I am so, so bad at PvP that i just 4gate every single time


Depends on what you scout. In basics, scout aggression? 2 gate robo expo. No 'immediate' pressure? 1 gate robo expo. No pressure at all? 1 gate expo.


----------



## FrankoNL

That's my problem in PVP. I just get "scared" so i build 3 gates and a robo, get out 2 immortals and then i start to think about an expansion ...

Then i find out my opponent already has his second base up and i'm like









Btw: Can i add you? Since we are both Dutch .. haha i will post my info here later tonight









Here they are talking about a 10 gateway ... is'nt that incredible early?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Gate_Robo


----------



## 13321G4

I've asked you to add me like a million times... TT

With a 3 gate expo you should be able to get your expo up before you start your immortals.

Sentry based defence.

10 gate is a 'strat' to get more probes out, later. Or something like that. No need to do something so strict.


----------



## FrankoNL

@ RIndVT

Sorry, i could not find your acc info .. so here is mine

Frenky #432


----------



## Solar71

I really like Starcraft, Much more then I ever liked Warcraft. I think I prefer the Futuristic setting VS the Fantacy setting.
But anyway. Starcraft just kicks my butt. I play the Ai on Medium and I can win about 75% of the time. But if I put it on hard I get my butt kicked about 90% of the time. Because of that I havent really even tried playing against a real person yet.

The single player campain is really fun but too linear for me. Im spoiled by open word games, so having this mission based single player feels very limiting. Even though you have a choice sometimes of playing 1, 2, or even 3 different missions its still limiting.

So I have not been playing Starcraft much lately.

One day I hope they will come up with a World Of Starcraft MMORPG where all kids 18 and younger are not allowed to play on the same servers as adults. HAHAHA I know that wont ever happen but thats probably the only way I would ever play an MMORPG ever again. WoW just killed MMo's for me because of so many lame people playing and Blizzard caving into there requests for an Ultra dumbed down game.

But anyway. Heres to WoS if it ever comes.


----------



## Sainesk

Don't worry about the AI, the harder modes cheat (they mine resources faster than you) so it takes cheesy tactics often to beat them. Haven't played against the AI for a while, but I remember having to do things like these to get all the AI achievements - cannon rushes (low ground first to high ground, boss rush etc.), all-ins, when you spot their army coming - attacking their base and laugh as instead of roflstomping your base and winning they run all the way back to defend; and such.

I believe everyone learns far more in ladder games than vs the AI. Human players do amazing and sometimes silly things, whereas the AI has patterns and just becomes predictable and can teach you bad habits. Ladder is for learning, Medium AI is okay for practicing and perfecting things like build orders and flaws in your playstyle like getting supply blocked, not spending resources and such in a relaxed setting.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> That's my problem in PVP. I just get "scared" so i build 3 gates and a robo, get out 2 immortals and then i start to think about an expansion ...
> 
> Then i find out my opponent already has his second base up and i'm like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw: Can i add you? Since we are both Dutch .. haha i will post my info here later tonight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here they are talking about a 10 gateway ... is'nt that incredible early?
> 
> http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Gate_Robo


This opening is very outdated and not really used anymore.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I really recommend this 11 gate 3 gate pressure opening:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=273465

Also PvP in Hots is much better with ms core and all three tech patchs being equally viable.


----------



## 13321G4

MS core gives so much potential, once pro's learn how to use it properly, it will be amazing.

@FrankoNL
I'm currently trying to decide on a new nickname, so will add you as soon as I've decided.

How is AdunHwaiting?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> MS core gives so much potential, once pro's learn how to use it properly, it will be amazing.
> 
> @FrankoNL
> I'm currently trying to decide on a new nickname, so will add you as soon as I've decided.
> 
> How is AdunHwaiting?


Are you a toss as main?

LastofAuir

AuirHwaiting

ZealOfAuir

AuirsLastStnd

StealthVoid

Just a few off of the top of my head.


----------



## 13321G4

I do main Toss yes, I've settled for plain "Hwaiting" though.

I like your ideas, except that they sound are more sentences than names. "Stealth" is pretty kewl...


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> What do you think is a good opener for PvP?
> 
> 1 gate robo expand? .. 2 gate robo expand?
> 
> I am so, so bad at PvP that i just 4gate every single time


i use 4gate as a defending option, protoss in master league hate pvp and want to end it fast.. i got my ass kicked countless times againts 4gate. i just cannot stop that thing.. masters ppl have perfect timing.. all i do is forcefield the ramp until i have enough ppl to engage..


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i use 4gate as a defending option, protoss in master league hate pvp and want to end it fast.. i got my ass kicked countless times againts 4gate. i just cannot stop that thing.. masters ppl have perfect timing.. all i do is forcefield the ramp until i have enough ppl to engage..


4gate isn't too hard to stop, as long as you see it coming. You need 2-3 sentries, and some stalkers or zealots. Try not to make both stalkers and zealots until he's broken up your ramp.

If you make stalkers, put one forcefield in the middle of the ramp, at the spot where he can't see the forcefield until he gets a zealot up the ramp, then group all your stalkers at the top of the ramp, and forcefield the very bottom of the ramp to trap units. Once you have that, one more forcefield below the first one, to push all the zealots far enough down the ramp that he can't see up the ramp. This will let you kill off as much of his army he got onto the ramp, as long as you keep on top of your forcefields.

If you see him warping in a lot of stalkers, you'll want to make zealots instead of stalkers, leave them at the top of your ramp, and when you have at least 6 zealots you let the forcefield on the middle of your ramp expire, and forcefield about 3-5 stalkers on the top half of the ramp, sandwiched against your zealots. You'll only be able to fit 3-4 zealots attacking those, but you'll need the extra units to start hitting anything he tries to warp in on the high ground.

It will be much easier in HotS because you can't warp up cliffs.


----------



## poroboszcz

How about xXxSwAgJeSuSxXx or YOLOfourTwenty.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> 4gate isn't too hard to stop, as long as you see it coming. You need 2-3 sentries, and some stalkers or zealots. Try not to make both stalkers and zealots until he's broken up your ramp.
> 
> If you make stalkers, put one forcefield in the middle of the ramp, at the spot where he can't see the forcefield until he gets a zealot up the ramp, then group all your stalkers at the top of the ramp, and forcefield the very bottom of the ramp to trap units. Once you have that, one more forcefield below the first one, to push all the zealots far enough down the ramp that he can't see up the ramp. This will let you kill off as much of his army he got onto the ramp, as long as you keep on top of your forcefields.
> 
> If you see him warping in a lot of stalkers, you'll want to make zealots instead of stalkers, leave them at the top of your ramp, and when you have at least 6 zealots you let the forcefield on the middle of your ramp expire, and forcefield about 3-5 stalkers on the top half of the ramp, sandwiched against your zealots. You'll only be able to fit 3-4 zealots attacking those, but you'll need the extra units to start hitting anything he tries to warp in on the high ground.
> 
> It will be much easier in HotS because you can't warp up cliffs.


good quote..









ps. what is your league ?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> good quote..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps. what is your league ?


Master P in WoL.


----------



## roberts91

So I downloaded this game again and remember why I didn't play it for more than a couple days. I feel like I need to take a line of coke to compete with these people that play this game. Also I don't know any build orders or *** I'm supposed to do except make an army and hope all goes well. So I downloaded YABOT and it doesn't work he hasn't posted an update on his map in years sc2builds.com is dead. So now it's just a bunch of elitists playing. This is why these game's don't sell well no one wants to be beaten repeatedly because the only player base is the guys who have been playing starcraft for the past 15 years 8 hours a day.


----------



## FrankoNL

Complete nonsense


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Complete nonsense


I agree, I'm totally new to RTS and have been playing WoL for the last month online, and offline a couple weeks before this. I love it, and there are all sorts of levels for you to have a good time with. The Starcraft community is huge, and there are millions of players. Lots of players started recently, just like I did, and I've made a bunch of online friends playing WoL.

roberts91, maybe you don't realise just how much skill is involved in starcraft? Maybe you expected to do well without putting in any effort, and got yourself reaped a new one a few times? I'd suggest going to watch these channels and spending some time learning:

http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc
http://www.youtube.com/user/njsexy
http://www.youtube.com/user/dignitasApollo

Do some studying, lots of practice, and you'll make progress. I am making huge progress, although I'm still very unskilled. What's more, these guys have given me such an appreciation for the high level players that I love watching replays from the likes of HuskyStarcraft. Awesome entertainment.


----------



## FrankoNL

And to add to the post above:

Just play ladder bronze league games. You will learn as you go.


----------



## Anti!!

That's like me fussing cause I'm no good at bf3 because everyone else got a two year head start and liked the game more than I.


----------



## FrankoNL

I get my ass kicked in bf3 though


----------



## Ergates

It's obvious to me that there are loads of people who are similarly new to the game as me. I'm currently at 4 or 5 in my bronze league, and watching loads of the others play, I see them doing the same stuff I did, and following a similar progression in learning.

I think Starcraft is awesome, it's revitalised my love of gaming in a way that other stuff hasn't done in years. I could kick myself for not starting it when it first came out. Way to take a depressing winter and make it happy times.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> It's obvious to me that there are loads of people who are similarly new to the game as me. I'm currently at 4 or 5 in my bronze league, and watching loads of the others play, I see them doing the same stuff I did, and following a similar progression in learning.
> 
> I think Starcraft is awesome, it's revitalised my love of gaming in a way that other stuff hasn't done in years. I could kick myself for not starting it when it first came out. Way to take a depressing winter and make it happy times.


Exactly!!!


----------



## poroboszcz

I have to confess that I've been playing some LoL recently and it's much more accessible then SC2.


----------



## 13321G4

They've changed a lot to the accessibility in HOTS.

I don't really see people buying WOL just to get HOTS though :/


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I don't really see people buying WOL just to get HOTS though :/


To Blizzard's credit, they usually lower the price of the older content so that the "cost of entry" isn't so ridiculous. I think I heard somewhere that WoL+HotS will be bundled for $60. They do the same thing with WoW - looking at the Blizzard store, you can buy everything but the newest expansion (including a month of game time) for 50 bucks total.

I kinda doubt that the player base is suddenly going to explode, but there have been a bunch of $30 pre-order deals floating around so hopefully it'll be a pretty successful launch.


----------



## Ergates

Yeah, I bought both WoL and pre-ordered HotS at the same time, and got them for £45, I guess that's about $60. Then had to buy them again for my son, since I don't want him playing on my account.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Yeah, I bought both WoL and pre-ordered HotS at the same time, and got them for £45, I guess that's about $60. Then had to buy them again for my son, since I don't want him playing on my account.


Haha I did that for my wife also.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Haha I did that for my wife also.


Nice! Wish I could get my wife into Starcraft.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Nice! Wish I could get my wife into Starcraft.


Yea, she watches me 1v1 lol!!! Freaking awesome.


----------



## dng25

Possible maphacker?
http://drop.sc/302302

He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Possible maphacker?
> http://drop.sc/302302
> 
> He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS


Looks like it, but you'd have to check his other games to make sure he doesn't forge in main against z when they're playing standard.

Edit: 90% sure he's maphacking. He's somehow in master league with bronze level forcefield placement and pro level reaction time.


----------



## dng25

Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.

Here's another one
http://drop.sc/302304
constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)

edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Are you using a maphack?


Yes he is using maphack.


----------



## burwij

The second game is even more telling than the first, which could be interpreted as a terrible cannon rush build. In the PvT, he rallies his first Stalker to his ramp, then at the last second blindly changes his mind and rallies it _directly on top of a bunker that he hasn't scouted_ in his natural. Also, at the 10:33 mark, his camera jumps into an area where he doesn't have vision - if you check, it's right when his Terran opponent moved out of his base.

For someone who's supposedly Masters, his builds are all over the place.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I'm wondering, at what level do players begin regularly hotkeying their units? Because I often play against people platinum and lower who do not hotkey their armies until they attack, or sometimes even attack without hotkeying.

I guess it's easier for Zerg to do it, since they can just hotkey their larvae as they're producing units, but I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would omit such an important step. I don't think I've played a single game since starting in bronze when I did not do this.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I'm wondering, at what level do players begin regularly hotkeying their units? Because I often play against people platinum and lower who do not hotkey their armies until they attack, or sometimes even attack without hotkeying.
> 
> I guess it's easier for Zerg to do it, since they can just hotkey their larvae as they're producing units, but I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would omit such an important step. I don't think I've played a single game since starting in bronze when I did not do this.


Not everyone has the same skill levels in all areas and starcraft has a TON of different areas to be skilled in. If you aren't diamond there are probably a lot of areas you lack that are just as bad or worse so although this may seem obvious to you someone who is higher skilled then you would see just as many obvious mistakes in your play that are simple fixes (as well as complex ones).

Also not everyone learns from someone else or they learn by watching. If you go to some pro or day9/caster explanation of how to play starcraft the basic skills are usually taught first, so what may be obvious to you isnt to others. A lot of people also form bad habits or need to lose a few dozen times because of a mistake before they fix things. Also since there are so many different areas to improve in they may not even be working on that area or know its a problem. A lot of people, and the proper way to learn, is to macro and get your mechanics down, other people cheese to win or cheese because they are tired. So guessing motivations is pointless a lot of the time.

I wouldnt recommend putting much thought into peoples motivations or builds or tactics when you are low ranked because a lot of it is simply low level play that will be forgotten once you get to masters or higher. You may want that strategic and counter and trickery in your game and thats good to think like that, but remember if you arent around mid diamond there is a LOT to learn. I mean some people just blind counter popular builds, some people cheat, some people play wrong by taking risks and guessing so by dumb luck they just counter what you did, or they have a build that doenst work but because of your skill being low you cant punish them for the risks they are taking.

Its kind of like worrying about if you are greasing your training wheels properly when the real thing is to get the training wheels off so you can enjoy riding the bike. Focus on your own play and mechanics, and do not get an ego. One of the most important things in starcraft is to realise you are trash and you have tons of ways to improve. Arrogance just leads to ladder anxiety because you think you are better than you are or you care what others think.

Thats about all the advice I have for now but I could write a LONG LONG 50pg paper on sc if I wanted lol...

Edit: Emotional control isprobably the most important aspect of starcraft at the start. Going on tilt or raging is just going to ruin your play. Focusing on divisions and rank and league are also foolish. No matter how good you are there good and bad streaks and its not possible to gauge if you have improved by these. You should take the game as always learning and gaining information and mechanical skill, kind of like xp for IRL. Use tools like mouseclick games, reaction times, etc to improve your control. Make sure all your computer settings are proper. Also remember the game CAN be imbalanced or be unfair or stupid but you are always building your skill up especially if you aren't a pro, so loses for stupid reasons dont matter. Yeh Im just gonna cut this short but I think emotional control is the most important factor of starcraft and hardest to master.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Ploppy, I agree with your advice and appreciate the lengthy reply. There are definitely plenty of things wrong with my play like suiciding my entire army into a poorly chosen engagement, massing units and forgetting to tech, not properly adapting my tech to dealing with what just killed my army, etc. In fact, I find that the more I make my way up the ladder the more I realize how terrible I am.









Definitely the most important thing is to look at my losses and understand how I could have responded better to the situation, despite my limitations. It's funny but the answer is almost always the same: tech faster and choose better engagements instead of just rushing in. Right now that is the main thing I need to work on.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Ploppy, I agree with your advice and appreciate the lengthy reply. There are definitely plenty of things wrong with my play like suiciding my entire army into a poorly chosen engagement, massing units and forgetting to tech, not properly adapting my tech to dealing with what just killed my army, etc. In fact, I find that the more I make my way up the ladder the more I realize how terrible I am.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely the most important thing is to look at my losses and understand how I could have responded better to the situation, despite my limitations. It's funny but the answer is almost always the same: tech faster and choose better engagements instead of just rushing in. Right now that is the main thing I need to work on.


The funny part is I don't hotkey my armies... I need to but it's a bad habit I never fixed..


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I'm wondering, at what level do players begin regularly hotkeying their units? Because I often play against people platinum and lower who do not hotkey their armies until they attack, or sometimes even attack without hotkeying.
> 
> I guess it's easier for Zerg to do it, since they can just hotkey their larvae as they're producing units, but I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would omit such an important step. I don't think I've played a single game since starting in bronze when I did not do this.


I have done that since silver league.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.
> 
> Here's another one
> http://drop.sc/302304
> constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)
> 
> edit:
> Yes he is using maphack.


I knew it! Explains how he can be master with such a horrible macro.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I have done that since silver league.


Lol.. ctrl click is my friend. Oh how so many battles could have been saved if I had just hotkeyed mah banelings...

I will work on that now that I have a practice account on the Korean servers.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The funny part is I don't hotkey my armies... I need to but it's a bad habit I never fixed..


No kidding, even at diamond/master? I think that Zerg have it easiest in this regard because when the larvae is selected and you've just made a certain unit, you ctrl-click your cocoons and then shift-1/2/3 to add them to the appropriate control group. All done without even needing to look at hatcheries, larvae, or the units themselves.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The funny part is I don't hotkey my armies... I need to but it's a bad habit I never fixed..
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, even at diamond/master? I think that Zerg have it easiest in this regard because when the larvae is selected and you've just made a certain unit, you ctrl-click your cocoons and then shift-1/2/3 to add them to the appropriate control group. All done without even needing to look at hatcheries, larvae, or the units themselves.
Click to expand...

I did this once, with mutalisks. They ended up rallying to my flock that was on the other side of a terrans base

pew pew pew... no more reinforcements tt


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I did this once, with mutalisks. They ended up rallying to my flock that was on the other side of a terrans base
> 
> pew pew pew... no more reinforcements tt


I've had that happen, there's definitely a learning curve to using it correctly. OTOH I can't imagine how people play zergling or muta wars in ZvZ without this.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I've had that happen, there's definitely a learning curve to using it correctly. OTOH I can't imagine how people play zergling or muta wars in ZvZ without this.


I find good ling bane battles to be the hardest..


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I find good ling bane battles to be the hardest..


I think they have done a lot for helping me develop my mechanics. It seems that in lower leagues almost everyone all-ins or cheeses in ZvZ. I've found TangSC's aggressive speedling opening (drone to 16, expo, mass speedling timing) extremely effective as a counter to cheese and as a way to either win outright or gain an advantage to transition into the mid-game.


----------



## Ergates

This is a really old video now, but it's an epic battle of nukes, PvT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1AYCWP8GqI

Three parts, the game lasts almost an hour. TEH AWESOMES!


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> This is a really old video now, but it's an epic battle of nukes, PvT:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1AYCWP8GqI
> 
> Three parts, the game lasts almost an hour. TEH AWESOMES!


Great now I have to watch all of that and two videos husky just uploaded. Thats like 2 hours!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Great now I have to watch all of that and two videos husky just uploaded. Thats like 2 hours!


For some reason, I can't stand Husky. It's like he's always trying too hard to sound excited, though I do tend to end up muting any caster that hasn't played at the pro level.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> For some reason, I can't stand Husky. It's like he's always trying too hard to sound excited, though I do tend to end up muting any caster that hasn't played at the pro level.


Thats funny because I cant stand HD







lol


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Thats funny because I cant stand HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol


I've completely stopped watching ANYTHING HD all together.

Husky is hilarious to me. His always trying to sound exciting thing to me is endearing to me haha.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I've completely stopped watching ANYTHING HD all together.
> 
> Husky is hilarious to me. His always trying to sound exciting thing to me is endearing to me haha.


Indeed, I love him


----------



## Ergates

Husky is TEH BOMB!! HD is OK, but far less interesting to me.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Tastosis is best, followed by Day9 with any progamer co-caster (like TLO). I tend to mute HD, djwheat, husky, etc.


----------



## paras

I love ign pro league


----------



## HarrisLam

i like husky because he speaks really fast but smooth like a soccer commentator







he also has great emotions shifts that kind of add to the game imo

although day9 knows the game pretty well, I kinda thing his thoughts can't catch up as fast when he does commentaries. He's the best when telling jokes unrelated to the game lol

HD's voice.....ewww.....


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> i like husky because he speaks really fast but smooth like a soccer commentator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he also has great emotions shifts that kind of add to the game imo
> 
> although day9 knows the game pretty well, I kinda thing his thoughts can't catch up as fast when he does commentaries. He's the best when telling jokes unrelated to the game lol
> 
> HD's voice.....ewww.....


HD's voice is Ewwww..........

Also, tastosis has grown on me. As long as they dont get into their ******ed OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OM GOM GOMG OMG modes... It tickes me off.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

QUESTION

Is HOTS a full sized game, on par with SC2, or just an extra few levels? On the official site they just call it an expansion


----------



## 13321G4

It's a full blown game, but you do need WoL to play it.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

good, and I hope there is a lot more tech upgrade options


----------



## Ergates

Gah, disappointing day today, didn't win a single game. The blasted battle.net had me matched to all sorts of really good players, including a platinum. I'm only a bronze 8 for crying in a bucket. Other times it puts me up against players much weaker than I am (yeah, incredibly there are some).


----------



## TranquilTempest

After you play against someone really good, watch the replay and note down timings.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> After you play against someone really good, watch the replay and note down timings.


Thanks, yes, I'm doing this, plus studying the various tutorials and trying to hit their timings.


----------



## Ergates

Slowly getting a little better at meeting filtersc's metrics. I like his tutorials a lot, they match my mindset as they are based on specific targets and measurables. It's painful losing, but it's also very good learning, and it's good to see what I'm getting wrong, and trying to not fail at that specific thing the next time round.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Slowly getting a little better at meeting filtersc's metrics. I like his tutorials a lot, they match my mindset as they are based on specific targets and measurables. It's painful losing, but it's also very good learning, and it's good to see what I'm getting wrong, and trying to not fail at that specific thing the next time round.


Yea, suffering now really pays off later.


----------



## SeD669

Hey guys has any1 experienced weird lag in SC2? Every 5 or so seconds my game lags for a spit-second.. this happens non-stop. I don't think its my net since every other game runs smooth.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Hey guys has any1 experienced weird lag in SC2? Every 5 or so seconds my game lags for a spit-second.. this happens non-stop. I don't think its my net since every other game runs smooth.


I know the NA servers were acting crazy a couple nights ago. Past that its been ok for me. Is that your picture in that avatar?

1700 posts for me!!


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Bought the game+HotS today, still waiting for Kerrigan super model expansion in 3D at home

About SC2WoL multiplayer

I never tried that yet, whats it like for a novice, no point playing against longtime vets

are their beginner matches?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Bought the game+HotS today, still waiting for Kerrigan super model expansion in 3D at home
> 
> About SC2WoL multiplayer
> 
> I never tried that yet, whats it like for a novice, no point playing against longtime vets
> 
> are their beginner matches?


There is a practice league, but I recommend you skip it. When you start playing ranked games it will match you against players of varying skill to figure out where you stand. The matchmaking system will try to match you up against people you have close to a 50% chance of beating, and after 10 games or so it's usually pretty close. Don't worry at all about your rank, and don't worry too much about what your opponent is doing, just focus on improving your own mechanics.

If you train right, you can go from bronze to diamond in 100 games.
If you lose a game, but don't take the time to figure out the reason you lost and fix it, you can spend a thousand games and not get out of bronze.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> I know the NA servers were acting crazy a couple nights ago. Past that its been ok for me. Is that your picture in that avatar?
> 
> 1700 posts for me!!


Its been happening for a week or more to me. Really irritating









LOL nah that's not a pic of me. Found a pic of this poor guy and couldn't stop laughing.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Bought the game+HotS today, still waiting for Kerrigan super model expansion in 3D at home
> 
> About SC2WoL multiplayer
> 
> I never tried that yet, whats it like for a novice, no point playing against longtime vets
> 
> are their beginner matches?


I'm a newbie, and having a great time. There are lots of people at around my level, better and worse. I'd recommend taking a look at this youtube user, he has a great series of tutorials:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SES1IAGlwDU

He gives you loads of specific things to do and targets to meet, and then keeps adding extras until you get a whole complex build. I don't know how good the series looks to you platinum, diamond and masters players, but I'm impressed.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Its been happening for a week or more to me. Really irritating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL nah that's not a pic of me. Found a pic of this poor guy and couldn't stop laughing.


Lol!! I'm in the same boat. I nearly could not contain myself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> There is a practice league, but I recommend you skip it. When you start playing ranked games it will match you against players of varying skill to figure out where you stand. The matchmaking system will try to match you up against people you have close to a 50% chance of beating, and after 10 games or so it's usually pretty close. Don't worry at all about your rank, and don't worry too much about what your opponent is doing, just focus on improving your own mechanics.
> 
> If you train right, you can go from bronze to diamond in 100 games.
> If you lose a game, but don't take the time to figure out the reason you lost and fix it, you can spend a thousand games and not get out of bronze.


This.

You may be at platinum but reaching diamond should not be a problem in NA.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I don't really expect Kerrigan super model to show up btw

Can the 'shift+a' targeting be changed to a single button, like just A ?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I don't really expect Kerrigan super model to show up btw
> 
> Can the 'shift+a' targeting be changed to a single button, like just A ?


pretty sure it can be, but you will need the regular attack move too. Any time you're just moving units across the map, make sure they're on attack move instead of just normal move. That way you don't walk into his army and lose instantly.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I tied a 4x4 match, I surrendered very early when cloaked protess attacked me

I built a 2nd base instead of a barracks, I was too wasted to continue


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I tied a 4x4 match, I surrendered very early when cloaked protess attacked me
> 
> I built a 2nd base instead of a barracks, I was too wasted to continue


You floater!!!!!


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You floater!!!!!


it was a 4v4 dude....

that also says something about the opposing team....


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> it was a 4v4 dude....
> 
> that also says something about the opposing team....


Lol. I was having fun anyway. It's just a game anyway....


----------



## DarkRyder

giant patch came out today....


----------



## Ergates

16GB of download!!!!!!


----------



## CravinR1

We now have auto mine and harvester counts


----------



## j3poysy

The harvester count is very helpful.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> giant patch came out today....


tell me bout it lol. just wanted to play a quick game now I gotta watch TV for an hour


----------



## HarrisLam

16GB!? That's like SC2 itself!!

I haven't tried the new version yet, but 16Gb for auto mine and harvestor count sounds hilarious


----------



## TwistedTime

Where is this 16GB coming from? The patch was only about 1.5GB for me, then again I am in the beta, so maybe most of the game files/changes were already in my system.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> Where is this 16GB coming from? The patch was only about 1.5GB for me, then again I am in the beta, so maybe most of the game files/changes were already in my system.


It's the download size reported by the launcher, when I clicked on info.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> 16GB!? That's like SC2 itself!!
> 
> I haven't tried the new version yet, but 16Gb for auto mine and harvestor count sounds hilarious


Wow, usage caps gonna love that, from the sounds of this post a few days ago it might be HOTS pre-load so launch day only requires a small patch...? (hopefully)


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

My download was less than 1GB and I already had HotS patched up to last week.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Wow, usage caps gonna love that, from the sounds of this post a few days ago it might be HOTS pre-load so launch day only requires a small patch...? (hopefully)


That would sound pretty bad because not everyone is going to buy HOTS. I know if one is still playing the game now theres only a very very small chance one will not purchase HOTS, just saying.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm sure everyone here subscribes to day 9's youtube channel
> 
> BUT here is Day9 and blizzard cocasting a HotS game


no day9s super annoying and for smarter players u start to see hes just run out of stuff to say. prob since his 150th episode hes beein blabbering nonsense

sry for the negativity i just cant stand day9


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Wow, usage caps gonna love that, from the sounds of this post a few days ago it might be HOTS pre-load so launch day only requires a small patch...? (hopefully)


This.

They do it like they do before WoW expansion packs. Whether you have purchased it or not you will experience the build up to the next expansion. It's always fun to be part of it. Unless you didn't buy it.


----------



## Yukss

the game has been laggy since patch


----------



## Qu1ckset

Im hating how the removed the attack move button in the bottom right hud when you have a selected unit, so now to do attack move what do i do?

hold "a" and then left click or???


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Im hating how the removed the attack move button in the bottom right hud when you have a selected unit, so now to do attack move what do i do?
> 
> hold "a" and then left click or???


yeah i saw that too.. i guess my fingers knows what to do after 2 years of playing this game


----------



## j3poysy

Hey guys i have a question. I preordered HOTS and was wondering how can I preload HOTS? I have WOL installed patched with 2.04, i also have SC2 HOTS Beta installed. Will i have to re-download a whole new package or something (my internet is slow







)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Im hating how the removed the attack move button in the bottom right hud when you have a selected unit, so now to do attack move what do i do?
> 
> hold "a" and then left click or???


Reinable it in gameplay options. It's in The same place where you enable selecting enemy units.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3poysy*
> 
> Hey guys i have a question. I preordered HOTS and was wondering how can I preload HOTS? I have WOL installed patched with 2.04, i also have SC2 HOTS Beta installed. Will i have to re-download a whole new package or something (my internet is slow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I think you're just going to have to wait and see how Blizzard release the final. I suspect that most of us have already downloaded some of the game given the 16GB update my launcher sucked down the other day.


----------



## SeD669

The LAG is back. gonna have to call my internet provider and skitz it


----------



## Lisjak

So what do you guys think of the new trailer? I thought it was pretty nice but I would have wanted a spoiler alert because it does show how the story will go on in HotS.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I have my pre-order, just cuaght the last 10mins of the devs talking

Looking forward to it, I need to try a 2nd multiplayer game, I ran from my 1st

http://www.twitch.tv/starcraft


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I'm digging this new patch for WOL. My APM went from 70 to 300!


----------



## SeD669

cant crack 150 APM but I used to get a lot higher than that. sigh


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Im hating how the removed the attack move button in the bottom right hud when you have a selected unit, so now to do attack move what do i do?
> 
> hold "a" and then left click or???


You should really be using hotkeys for all of those commands.

A = Attack
A + Click = Attack Move
S = Stop
H = Hold Position
P = Patrol


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

The terrin vs protoss level, collecting the altar gas

I focus on building golith and marines, and upgrades for golith

A 2nd crystal mine would be nice, but how important? Early in game it would take a lot of troops to capture/hold

Playing on hard, I've beaten this before without too much trouble, but this time its not going so well

And what about just killing their probes that seal off the gas, kill them then retreat, how good that work with just building a huge army for endgame


----------



## TranquilTempest

Nearly every level can be beat by just making a ton of mmm. That one included. Basically, just work on macro and you'll be fine.


----------



## Mwarren

So hows HOTS. Is terrain finally balanced with Toss and Zerg and actually has a good late game or are some races still more powerful than others? I stopped playing WoL at High Masters because Terran had a serious disadvantage come late game vs zerg and toss.


----------



## Fortunex

I think Terran is supposed to have a harder lategame, different races have different strengths at different stages in the game.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> I think Terran is supposed to have a harder lategame, different races have different strengths at different stages in the game.


Why should Terran have a weak late game? The game should be balanced at all points.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Why should Terran have a weak late game? The game should be balanced at all points.


IMO the game is balanced in a way where each of the races are good at different point of the game.
I've noticed that Zerg are good in early-game, where Toss are better in late-game. Terran would be more mid-game. The skill in a Terran player to hold-off the Zerg early aggro or defeat the Toss before the end-game "army-Ball" is what makes good players..

However this is probably just in the lower league play that I've seen







I have watched Zerg players who love the late-game and vice-versa... Toss players who prosper in early-game so what would I know


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> IMO the game is balanced in a way where each of the races are good at different point of the game.
> I've noticed that Zerg are good in early-game, where Toss are better in late-game. Terran would be more mid-game. The skill in a Terran player to hold-off the Zerg early aggro or defeat the Toss before the end-game "army-Ball" is what makes good players..
> 
> However this is probably just in the lower league play that I've seen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have watched Zerg players who love the late-game and vice-versa... Toss players who prosper in early-game so what would I know


This is the reason why I stopped playing SC2. Why make the races stronger at one point of the game?

Also you're wrong as each race is just as potent at each point of the game besides terran and protoss zerg has the strongest late game and toss has a stronger late game thqan terran.

Heres why.

Early game zerg has baneling bust, roach bust, and other game busts. Mid game they have 2 base muta baneling or mass roach.

Early game toss has a on of builds that can out right kill you I don't even need to mention them, mid game they have plenty of two base all ins, late game they have all tech options and mass splah which will outright kill most terrans that lack extremely high apm.

Early game terran has a few all ins. Mid game terran has a few good pushes/all ins. Late game terran lacks tech options and is the weakest.

Terran is easily weakest during the late game, toss is the second weakest, zerg has the strongest late game otherwise all of the races are balanced at the other points of the game.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> This is the reason why I stopped playing SC2. Why make the races stronger at one point of the game?
> 
> Also you're wrong as each race is just as potent at each point of the game besides terran and protoss zerg has the strongest late game and toss has a stronger late game thqan terran.
> 
> Heres why.
> 
> Early game zerg has baneling bust, roach bust, and other game busts. Mid game they have 2 base muta baneling or mass roach.
> 
> Early game toss has a on of builds that can out right kill you I don't even need to mention them, mid game they have plenty of two base all ins, late game they have all tech options and mass splah which will outright kill most terrans that lack extremely high apm.
> 
> Early game terran has a few all ins. Mid game terran has a few good pushes/all ins. Late game terran lacks tech options and is the weakest.
> 
> Terran is easily weakest during the late game, toss is the second weakest, zerg has the strongest late game otherwise all of the races are balanced at the other points of the game.


Its a shame to see a High masters terran let his skills rust over balance.









It would be nice to have you back playing. HoTs is just FUN with new units. You would be really suprised.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> This is the reason why I stopped playing SC2. Why make the races stronger at one point of the game?
> 
> Also you're wrong as each race is just as potent at each point of the game besides terran and protoss zerg has the strongest late game and toss has a stronger late game thqan terran.
> 
> Heres why.
> 
> Early game zerg has baneling bust, roach bust, and other game busts. Mid game they have 2 base muta baneling or mass roach.
> 
> Early game toss has a on of builds that can out right kill you I don't even need to mention them, mid game they have plenty of two base all ins, late game they have all tech options and mass splah which will outright kill most terrans that lack extremely high apm.
> 
> Early game terran has a few all ins. Mid game terran has a few good pushes/all ins. Late game terran lacks tech options and is the weakest.
> 
> Terran is easily weakest during the late game, toss is the second weakest, zerg has the strongest late game otherwise all of the races are balanced at the other points of the game.


Ahhh so firstly:
The idea of this different strengths at different points of the game is not a new concept. Its more evident in games like DOTA and HON







.... There is definitely less of this in SC2 as the game is more complex.
I can admit that as far as higher-ranked plays are concerned.. my theory goes out the window. I mentioned this:
Quote:


> However this is probably just in the lower league play that I've seen tongue.gif I have watched Zerg players who love the late-game and vice-versa... Toss players who prosper in early-game so what would I know biggrin.gif


I'm just going off what I've seen in my ****ty league (gold and platinum). To say that Terran is disadvantaged to the point that its obvious is a big statement tho. Maybe for certain play-styles yes and for players who like to max out on supply definitely.
Come mid-game if you get your siege+marine turtle on







.... you can see that Terran can go toe-to-toe anytime. I think it was blizzards intention to make Terran like this to force us too constantly keep pressure on. If you give Zerg or Toss any breathing room then it seems a little unbalanced.

AGAIN I'm only going off what I have seen in low-league play







. When I watch MLG replays I am always amassed at the plays.. If I made my judgement off only what I saw there I would have to say that Zerg is over-powered







It takes MASSIVE skill to just hold them off sometimes.
I have nightmares about baneling+muta. best mid-game strategy against mine lol.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Its a shame to see a High masters terran let his skills rust over balance. frown.gif
> 
> It would be nice to have you back playing. HoTs is just FUN with new units. You would be really suprised.


Wow didn't know I was chatting to a high masters.
"I bow down and concede to your opinion" lol


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> There is definitely less of this in SC2 as the game is more complex.


I completely disagree that SC2 is more complex than DotA. It is mechanically much harder, but the game itself isn't all that complex at all, compared to games like DotA.


----------



## CravinR1

I can NOT get my game to find a game.

Its 100% and when I go to matchmaking it just shows a infinite spinning loading circle. Any suggestions?


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> I completely disagree that SC2 is more complex than DotA. It is mechanically much harder, but the game itself isn't all that complex at all, compared to games like DotA.


We can agree to disagree mate







I have played both and IMO SC2 has just to many variables. Its like comparing chess and checkers


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Its a shame to see a High masters terran let his skills rust over balance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice to have you back playing. HoTs is just FUN with new units. You would be really suprised.


I'm playing again.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I'm playing again.


Good. Add me. Lol.

I am diamond maybe we could practice some. Im trying for masters anyway.


----------



## frogger4

Hi there! I don't play Starcraft myself, so I figure this is the place to ask questions related to it









I've been asked to recommend a computer build to play Starcraft 2 at maximum settings, 1080p with a reasonable frame rate (no 120hz requirement or anything like that, just smoothly). What is the minimum processor / gpu combination (new hardware, not used) to meet this requirement? Since budget is not a huge concern, I will likely end up recommending something above the minimum, but I'd like to use that as a starting point.

Thanks!


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> We can agree to disagree mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have played both and IMO SC2 has just to many variables. Its like comparing chess and checkers


SC2 has way fewer variables than DotA 2, lol...

2 players, 3 races, ~16 units plus tech upgrades

10 players, 100+ heroes each with 4+ skills (if you're only counting competitive play, then there's a pool of probably ~50-60 that are commonly picked), 100+ items

SC2 is a much more mechanically difficult game, but DotA 2 has far more depth, strategy, and room for decision making because there are so many variables and different ways to play. It's much harder to quantify a strategy in DotA and say "this one is better" like you can in SC2, because it's so much more flexible.

But I'm gonna stop here, not the thread for a long x vs y discussion.


----------



## poroboszcz

You gotta be kidding. You can't possibly compare an RTS game were you simultaneously control up to 100 units each with their own characteristics and abilities while maintaining economy, production and getting scouting information with a game where you run around with a single character with 4 skills always on the same map with the same objectives and which takes 20 apm to master. MOBA games are so popular because they're easy. Not CoD easy, but nowhere near SC.


----------



## Nethermir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> SC2 has way fewer variables than DotA 2, lol...
> 
> 2 players, 3 races, ~16 units plus tech upgrades
> 
> 10 players, 100+ heroes each with 4+ skills (if you're only counting competitive play, then there's a pool of probably ~50-60 that are commonly picked), 100+ items
> 
> SC2 is a much more mechanically difficult game, but DotA 2 has far more depth, strategy, and room for decision making because there are so many variables and different ways to play. It's much harder to quantify a strategy in DotA and say "this one is better" like you can in SC2, because it's so much more flexible.
> 
> But I'm gonna stop here, not the thread for a long x vs y discussion.


2 players, 3 races, *100+ units to possibly control individually*. If anything, it's really hard to compare SC2 to DotA 2 or LoL. It's like comparing chess to basketball.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> I've been asked to recommend a computer build to play Starcraft 2 at maximum settings, 1080p with a reasonable frame rate (no 120hz requirement or anything like that, just smoothly). What is the minimum processor / gpu combination (new hardware, not used) to meet this requirement? Since budget is not a huge concern, I will likely end up recommending something above the minimum, but I'd like to use that as a starting point.
> 
> Thanks!


I think it depends on what you consider playable.

Graphically the game is not that demanding. A GTX680 or HD7970 is overkill for the game.

The real problem is that, as far as I know, the game demands a lot from the CPU and I don't think there is a CPU right now that is able to handle late game all that well. Even if you get the best of the best the game would still slow down to about 30 FPS.

Starcraft 2 only uses 2 cores, so you want at least 3 cores(2 for the game to max out and the 3rd is for OS processing so it doesn't take affect the game.) You also want them to be as fast as you can get them so be ready to overclock if you want the extra boost.

This is what I understand from reading elseware.

I wish Blizz would optimize it for at least 4 cores, but I doubt that will be happening anytime soon.


----------



## MKUL7R4

I'm playing on extreme graphics with an i5-2500K (non-overclocked), GTX 480, and 8 gb RAM (sig rig). I don't get any noticeable slowdown even in 4v4's. Then again I don't monitor my FPS. I'm sure the framerate drops a little, but it's not really perceivable.


----------



## frogger4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> I think it depends on what you consider playable.
> 
> Graphically the game is not that demanding. A GTX680 or HD7970 is overkill for the game.
> 
> The real problem is that, as far as I know, the game demands a lot from the CPU and I don't think there is a CPU right now that is able to handle late game all that well. Even if you get the best of the best the game would still slow down to about 30 FPS.
> 
> Starcraft 2 only uses 2 cores, so you want at least 3 cores(2 for the game to max out and the 3rd is for OS processing so it doesn't take affect the game.) You also want them to be as fast as you can get them so be ready to overclock if you want the extra boost.
> 
> This is what I understand from reading elseware.
> 
> I wish Blizz would optimize it for at least 4 cores, but I doubt that will be happening anytime soon.


Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...

Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.

Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
> As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...
> 
> Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.
> 
> Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?


Why don't you play it on your "Livingroom rig" ?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> Hi there! I don't play Starcraft myself, so I figure this is the place to ask questions related to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been asked to recommend a computer build to play Starcraft 2 at maximum settings, 1080p with a reasonable frame rate (no 120hz requirement or anything like that, just smoothly). What is the minimum processor / gpu combination (new hardware, not used) to meet this requirement? Since budget is not a huge concern, I will likely end up recommending something above the minimum, but I'd like to use that as a starting point.
> 
> Thanks!


I'd go with a minimum of ivy bridge i3, 7850, 4GB RAM, though i'd recommend an ivy bridge i5 (unlocked if planning to overclock), 7850, 8GB RAM (RAM is so cheap these days - Newegg for example has 4GB for $28, 8GB for $41, I think it'd be a real shame to not spend that little extra for double the memory). SC2 only utilizes 2 cores, but the i5 and extra RAM would be more lenient when it comes to running stuff in the background (Fraps, streaming programs etc.) as well as perform better in many other games.


----------



## frogger4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Why don't you play it on your "Livingroom rig" ?


Haha making a build for someone else, not me!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I'd go with a minimum of ivy bridge i3, 7850, 4GB RAM, though i'd recommend an ivy bridge i5 (unlocked if planning to overclock), 7850, 8GB RAM (RAM is so cheap these days - Newegg for example has 4GB for $28, 8GB for $41, I think it'd be a real shame to not spend that little extra for double the memory). SC2 only utilizes 2 cores, but the i5 and extra RAM would be more lenient when it comes to running stuff in the background (Fraps, streaming programs etc.) as well as perform better in many other games.


Thanks, that's pretty much much in line with what I was thinking. I really would like to be able to use an unlocked i5 (that is close to the ideal performer it sounds like). I'll try to find out if that could work into the budget.


----------



## Fortunex

**** it, can't not reply to this...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nethermir*
> 
> 2 players, 3 races, *100+ units to possibly control individually*. If anything, it's really hard to compare SC2 to DotA 2 or LoL. It's like comparing chess to basketball.


You don't control them individually, you generally have 2-4 groups of units. And I fail to see how that makes it strategically more deep... It makes it mechanically harder, which I completely agree with.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You gotta be kidding. You can't possibly compare an RTS game were you simultaneously control up to 100 units each with their own characteristics and abilities while maintaining economy, production and getting scouting information with a game where you run around with a single character with 4 skills always on the same map with the same objectives and which takes 20 apm to master. MOBA games are so popular because they're easy. Not CoD easy, but nowhere near SC.


Yes I can compare them.

No, not all 100 units have their own characteristics, they're chosen out of a pool of ~16 units and you have groups of them. Most unit comps have 2-4 types of units.

Controlling units, maintaining economy, production, and scouting are mechanically hard but not very deep, strategically. A lot of the "strategy" in SC2 is easily quantifiable and some strategies/decisions can be shown to be outright "better" than another. SC2 largely comes down to being a mechanics deathmatch. *THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A BAD THING*

DotA has far more variables. 100+ unique characters with different skills, 5 on each team, all with different players controlling them that are at different mechanical skill levels with different playstyles, with different synergies between the players, characters, and items chosen, etc. This increased amount of variables increases the amount of room for strategy, decision making, etc. and greatly changes how the game flows. *THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A GOOD THING*

Mechanically, DotA is very simple compared to SC2, and I'm not arguing that at all (don't know why you seem to think I said SC2 was easier than DotA), but in terms of strategy, DotA is simply deeper. I'm not saying either is better or worse, they're just difficult in different ways. I'm not bashing your precious SC2, it's probably one of the most mechanically difficult games ever released, and requires an insane amount of skill and mental fortitude. But to try and say it's strategically deeper than a game like DotA is just silly, imo.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I'm playing on extreme graphics with an i5-2500K (non-overclocked), GTX 480, and 8 gb RAM (sig rig). I don't get any noticeable slowdown even in 4v4's. Then again I don't monitor my FPS. I'm sure the framerate drops a little, but it's not really perceivable.


On my system(3570K not overclocked+hd7970ghz+8gb ram... I'm on my phone right now so I am not sure if you would be able to see my rig or not...) I was curious what my fps would be and monitored it every now and then. And my fps would drop once the game gets to about mid to late game. Your fps is also most likely dropping, but I would side with you in that in the middle of the game I would notice the lower fps only once in a while. Usually I am too busy trying to stay alive, once I get better at the game I think I would want higher fps more often.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
> As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...
> 
> Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.
> 
> Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?


It really is that CPU bound. I reduce all the CPU related settings on an overclocked i7 930, because of framerate drops in lategame.

If I was building a computer specifically for SC2 and nothing else, it would be a 3570k and a gtx 660. If it would play other games too, I might bump GPU up a bit.

How big is the budget? I expect you could build a rig around this for 800.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
> As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...
> 
> Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.
> 
> Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?


Definitely go with Intel over AMD. An i3 will perform roughly on par with the best from AMD, while any i5 will perform better than the best AMD processors. Check this link:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> **** it, can't not reply to this...
> You don't control them individually, you generally have 2-4 groups of units. And I fail to see how that makes it strategically more deep... It makes it mechanically harder, which I completely agree with.
> Yes I can compare them.
> 
> No, not all 100 units have their own characteristics, they're chosen out of a pool of ~16 units and you have groups of them. Most unit comps have 2-4 types of units.
> 
> Controlling units, maintaining economy, production, and scouting are mechanically hard but not very deep, strategically. A lot of the "strategy" in SC2 is easily quantifiable and some strategies/decisions can be shown to be outright "better" than another. SC2 largely comes down to being a mechanics deathmatch. *THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A BAD THING*
> 
> DotA has far more variables. 100+ unique characters with different skills, 5 on each team, all with different players controlling them that are at different mechanical skill levels with different playstyles, with different synergies between the players, characters, and items chosen, etc. This increased amount of variables increases the amount of room for strategy, decision making, etc. and greatly changes how the game flows. *THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A GOOD THING* .
> 
> Mechanically, DotA is very simple compared to SC2, and I'm not arguing that at all (don't know why you seem to think I said SC2 was easier than DotA), but in terms of strategy, DotA is simply deeper. I'm not saying either is better or worse, they're just difficult in different ways. I'm not bashing your precious SC2, it's probably one of the most mechanically difficult games ever released, and requires an insane amount of skill and mental fortitude. But to try and say it's strategically deeper than a game like DotA is just silly, imo.


I don't see what you mean by "deeper". At a high level, Starcraft is fundamentally about understanding your opponent better than he understands you. Good mechanics, and understanding what it's possible for your opponent to be doing(given what you've seen in game) are just a prerequisite.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I don't see what you mean by "deeper". At a high level, Starcraft is fundamentally about understanding your opponent better than he understands you. Good mechanics, and understanding what it's possible for your opponent to be doing(given what you've seen in game) are just a prerequisite.


More strategies, more options to counter those strategies, more decision making in general.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Welcome to the Jungle-collecting terrazine gas

I always find this mission hard, on hard (which is fine)

Tips?

Build some bunkers and AA at edge of base, or just build more marines/goliaths and move them out/back at the key times? And just how important are upgrades for marines/goliaths

I think I should build plenty more miners, the crystal supply seems like a lot just in starting base, but what about taking the 2nd crystal mine early. Do the Protoss 'base attacks' attack base1 or base2?

Enough of this, time to go find out


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> More strategies, more options to counter those strategies, more decision making in general.


That doesn't sound any deeper, broader maybe. "Strategies" in SC2 have a huge number of variations, subtle changes in timing, composition, and risk. You can spend a hundred games refining a single opening, learning all the things it dies to, finding ways to deviate in response, and figuring out how to get the information you need in time to deviate.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> That doesn't sound any deeper, broader maybe. "Strategies" in SC2 have a huge number of variations, subtle changes in timing, composition, and risk. You can spend a hundred games refining a single opening, learning all the things it dies to, finding ways to deviate in response, and figuring out how to get the information you need in time to deviate.


And yet in general they are "Scout the opponent to see what he's building, then see what you should build from this table", where there are only 2-3 viable strategies per race, and excactly one viable counter for eact.
More decision making is good. It is what the game desparately needed in order to be an RTS


----------



## SeD669

God I'm so sorry I started the SC2-DotA conversation







.
When I used to play HON, there was no skill or "depth" involved with choosing the hero, as usually people chose one at the very end of the choosing round







. So you really couldn't anticipate and react with a better choice.. therefore there is no depth here just a bit of luck sometimes.
The one thing I can say about DotA tho is as far as team-work goes, its the number 1 game. The outcome relies HEAVILY on good team work. One bad player can ruin the whole match. I can concede that much.
Quote:


> More strategies, more options to counter those strategies, more decision making in general.


This is true in both games depending on how you look at the game-play. Also it could be relative... for some people the DotA gametype could come easier and hence we assume its simpler, and vice-versa


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Well I finished it this time, I built lot and lots of miners, and lots of marines and goliaths, and re-learned that only they need too kill the Protoss collectors and retreat early game, so that saves a lot early game.

Then researched marine/goliaths, and built extras, and took that 2nd mining base, and built 4-5 missile turrets to help hold it.

After all that only got a bronze award though
Edited by Kaltenbrunner - Today at 12:39 am


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
> As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...
> 
> Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.
> 
> Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?


The reason it is so CPU bound is the amount of units that the game needs to keep track of.

As for the which cpu you should pick... I would agree to scrap together what you can in order to get a 3570k. You can get a low level gpu and upgrade that when you can if you want, or wait a little until you have a bit more cash to get a high level one.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> The reason it is so CPU bound is the amount of units that the game needs to keep track of.
> 
> As for the which cpu you should pick... I would agree to scrap together what you can in order to get a 3570k. You can get a low level gpu and upgrade that when you can if you want, or wait a little until you have a bit more cash to get a high level one.


My brother is running a phenom 840, 8gigs of ddr2, and a gtx 570. and he runs it maxed very well.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> That doesn't sound any deeper, broader maybe. "Strategies" in SC2 have a huge number of variations, subtle changes in timing, composition, and risk. You can spend a hundred games refining a single opening, learning all the things it dies to, finding ways to deviate in response, and figuring out how to get the information you need in time to deviate.


Same thing can be said for a strategy/team composition in DotA, but there are a lot more strats, team comps, etc. in DotA than there are in SC2, and a lot more variables to account for.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My brother is running a phenom 840, 8gigs of ddr2, and a gtx 570. and he runs it maxed very well.


The proplem isn't getting the game to run at max. The problem is that no current cpu can run it at 60fps during matches that has entered the late game stage, much less during battles at that stage.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> The proplem isn't getting the game to run at max. The problem is that no current cpu can run it at 60fps during matches that has entered the late game stage, much less during battles at that stage.


hmmm....Have I finally found an excuse to overclock my 2500K?


----------



## DoomDash

I played a placement match a few weeks ago and I got placed in Diamond. First time since SC2's release I was ranked outside of masters ( excluding when it didnt exist ). Rather depressing for me. I don't know how much I'll get into HotS since I'm nearly a father, and have a real job now, where as I used to not work or hardly work before to keep my skills up.

Life is difficult







. At least I know I'll enjoy the SP campaign:thumb:.


----------



## Sainesk

Global play is out! should make playing together a lot easier







though i'm rather sad that my "How to create a Taiwan Starcraft 2 account and play on Korean/Taiwan region" guide is pretty much useless now.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

LB426 just learned that from Aliens

13ou5byq[o3bu5y]uqb3]50yub


----------



## MKUL7R4

What difficulty setting should I play HotS on if I want a challenge that's not impossible? I am a platinum solo player. I think I played WoL on normal and it was incredibly easy.


----------



## TranquilTempest

I've seen people pass the WoL campaign in brutal, while in gold league. I'd say start on brutal, and reduce difficulty if you spend more than a couple days trying to clear one level.


----------



## Mwarren

I never got a chance to play the HOTS BETA but I'm a very aggressive Terran player. I use Terran to it's full advantage and open with builds like 1/1/1 vs P & T and vs Zerg go for 2 base pressure/borderline all ins and do other aggressive builds.

Are there a lot of aggressive possibility's for Terran in the early/mid game in HOTS?


----------



## 13321G4

I would say there are a lot more options with the likes of widow mines and auto heal reapers.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would say there are a lot more options with the likes of widow mines and auto heal reapers.


Nice! I loved reapers in WoL until they got nerfed to death. I can see myself trying out and hopefully using some reactor reaper harrass builds tvt and possibly in TvZ.

To make widow mines you only need hellions correct? Also, do reapers come with the speed upgrade by default now?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would say there are a lot more options with the likes of widow mines and auto heal reapers.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! I loved reapers in WoL until they got nerfed to death. I can see myself trying out and hopefully using some reactor reaper harrass builds tvt and possibly in TvZ.
> 
> To make widow mines you only need hellions correct? Also, do reapers come with the speed upgrade by default now?
Click to expand...

I checked, the original reaper speed was 2.9 something which has been buffed to 3.5. The upgrade to 4.2 has been removed.

Widow mines build out of a factory. No techlab required.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I checked, the original reaper speed was 2.9 something which has been buffed to 3.5. The upgrade to 4.2 has been removed.
> 
> Widow mines build out of a factory. No techlab required.


Damn! No TL for reaper or widow mine? We're going to see some crazy early-mid game builds from Terran.


----------



## poroboszcz

The only problem with reapers is that they do no damage now. I think 1 SCV can kill like 5 unmicroed reapers. But widow mines, widow mine drops and hellbat drops (got nerfed but still good) are really nice, especially with medivac boost. Shame terran still has no lategame army that doesn't die to P or Z 1a.

Edit: Oh and siege tech doesn't require research


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> The only problem with reapers is that they do no damage now. I think 1 SCV can kill like 5 unmicroed reapers. But widow mines, widow mine drops and hellbat drops (got nerfed but still good) are really nice, especially with medivac boost. Shame terran still has no lategame army that doesn't die to P or Z 1a.
> 
> Edit: Oh and siege tech doesn't require research


Wow thats pretty huge. So 1/1/1 is going to be even stronger than it is now.......I'm going to have to devise a few strategy's for release date.

Right now 1/1/1 got a buff because you can use seeker missile or PDD and seeker is nice if they got a good amount of zealots. Without a need to research siege tech I can go right for 1/1/1 vs Toss and possibly against Zerg as well and come up with some interesting builds.

I can see 2 base contains being viable using widow mines, siege tanks, and hellbats. Maybe 2 base triple/quadruple fact contain vs zerg/toss. But this is all theory talk for now.

Terran's strengths has always been in it's early to mid game so I'll continue to exploit that and them still being weak in the late game is no surprise.


----------



## HarrisLam

phew, months of not playing / watching pro matches / posting here~

regarding the radical changes about terran....I think it's just kind of strange that they would try to "fix the problem" like that, as we all know (at least part of) the root cause of all this is the ridiculous buff of zerg's turtling power with queen's range buff









The widow mines though, man if you manage to get a few shots at a good cluster, oh that explosion man....I almost need to change my pants even from just thinking about it....









I feel like the late game dominance of zerg still hasn't changed much though....that lotus spore or whatever its called....just have like 2-3 in your army to get free summons from time to time, almost better than infested terrans imo. When they are used together though....I can imagine lower level players having a hard time dealing with a fully replenishable army (and its not like you can really terran-harass zerg expansions real good these days)


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I feel like the late game dominance of zerg still hasn't changed much though....that lotus spore or whatever its called....just have like 2-3 in your army to get free summons from time to time, almost better than infested terrans imo. When they are used together though....I can imagine lower level players having a hard time dealing with a fully replenishable army *(and its not like you can really terran-harass zerg expansions real good these days)*


hellions/hellbats + speedy medivacs?

+ w00t my Cooler Master Quickfire TK Blue was originally delayed until March 27th, now it's going to be here tomorrow







I'll have some time to adjust to it before HotS comes out.

People who have experience preordering from Newegg, how long will it take me to get the game?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> God I'm so sorry I started the SC2-DotA conversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> *When I used to play HON, there was no skill or "depth" involved with choosing the hero, as usually people chose one at the very end of the choosing round
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .* So you really couldn't anticipate and react with a better choice.. therefore there is no depth here just a bit of luck sometimes.
> The one thing I can say about DotA tho is as far as team-work goes, its the number 1 game. The outcome relies HEAVILY on good team work. One bad player can ruin the whole match. I can concede that much.
> This is true in both games depending on how you look at the game-play. Also it could be relative... for some people the DotA gametype could come easier and hence we assume its simpler, and vice-versa


Captain's Mode

So will I notice a significant increase in framerate if I lightly overclock my 2500K to like 4-4.3 ghz?


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> People who have experience preordering from Newegg, how long will it take me to get the game?


Why not preorder it from battle.net, then you can download it and be ready to go on the day of release?


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> phew, months of not playing / watching pro matches / posting here~


Haha I just came to find this thread to say I'm coming back as well. I will download SC2 tonight. I've still been watching matches all the time but didn't play anymore because I decided I'll never be that good. However, I am ready to play again, very casually.


----------



## rageofthepeon

I enjoy watching the game but don't dare buy it. I'm one of those people that would get sucked into playing competitively and lose whatever life I gained after quitting wow (arena pvp ftw).

Ah, good ole memories of AoE2/AoM/WC3 ladder matches.

How are the custom games, is it all dota or are there a nice variety of fun maps?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rageofthepeon*
> 
> I enjoy watching the game but don't dare buy it. I'm one of those people that would get sucked into playing competitively and lose whatever life I gained after quitting wow (arena pvp ftw).
> 
> Ah, good ole memories of AoE2/AoM/WC3 ladder matches.
> 
> How are the custom games, is it all dota or are there a nice variety of fun maps?


The top maps are tower defense, tug of war games, and some MOBA style maps. of course they still have bunker wars and stuff too
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Why not preorder it from battle.net, then you can download it and be ready to go on the day of release?


got it preordered for $30 shipped on Newegg, and I much prefer to have a physical box


----------



## Sainesk

I prefer the physical copy too for games I really like. The box can almost be like holding a piece of art in your hands







not sure Amazon will get it to me on time either - hope they ship tomorrow or Monday though the estimate says the 15th. I'm just gonna pick up a copy at a retail store and let the other one sit unopened on a display shelf for eternity











Spoiler: WOL Box (not my pic)


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Captain's Mode
> 
> So will I notice a significant increase in framerate if I lightly overclock my 2500K to like 4-4.3 ghz?


It will help minimum framerates only, especially big battles.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I prefer the physical copy too for games I really like. The box can almost be like holding a piece of art in your hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not sure Amazon will get it to me on time either - hope they ship tomorrow or Monday though the estimate says the 15th. I'm just gonna pick up a copy at a retail store and let the other one sit unopened on a display shelf for eternity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: WOL Box (not my pic)


Amazon says that if you order with 2-day shipping you will have it on release day. I have pre-ordered a few games with them in the past and they've always delivered on that promise.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Amazon says that if you order with 2-day shipping you will have it on release day. I have pre-ordered a few games with them in the past and they've always delivered on that promise.


Or you can preorder from blizz and already have it downloaded.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Or you can preorder from blizz and already have it downloaded.


I only mentioned it because he said he wasn't sure if Amazon will get it to him on time.

Personally, I opted to go with $30 at Newegg, I'm not that worried if I'll get it a few days late. I'm still playing WoL and am not too thrilled about Zerg in HotS.


----------



## Bdebrooke

If anyone feels like playing 2's or more Add me HappyBunnyTime 108


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> The proplem isn't getting the game to run at max. The problem is that no current cpu can run it at 60fps during matches that has entered the late game stage, much less during battles at that stage.


If you want 60fps with 200 vs 200 ling battles you will need my processor at that clock or higher... lol

@doomdash I am married with two kids and a super real job and am broke all the time broke so needing work more and am mid to high diamond. Lol. We will need to practice together.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> If you want 60fps with 200 vs 200 ling battles you will need my processor at that clock or higher... lol.


You won't be getting 60fps if you have Starcraft 2 set on Extreme Graphics at 1080 resolution, like what his friend wants it to be set at. Sure, you might get a decent boost, from 20ish to 40ish, but that's about it.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> You won't be getting 60fps if you have Starcraft 2 set on Extreme Graphics at 1080 resolution, like what his friend wants it to be set at. Sure, you might get a decent boost, from 20ish to 40ish, but that's about it.


If people are serious about getting optimal performance to do better in matches, just turn down some of the more useless settings like Shadows and Reflections, and use 2D portraits. The game looks amazing anyways with even those few downgrades. Many pros play on very low graphics settings


----------



## TwistedTime

I do not know if the friend is serious about competing or not, he is not my friend. There are just some people that want to play at max graphics, there are also people people that wants to play competitively at max settings, but can't right now and will probably make a compromise until computer hardware improve to where they can do so.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> I do not know if the friend is serious about competing or not, he is not my friend. There are just some people that want to play at max graphics, there are also people people that wants to play competitively at max settings, but can't right now and will probably make a compromise until computer hardware improve to where they can do so.


Now I'm drooling over the idea of Haswell on phase change with a Titan or two and a 120hz catleap.


----------



## TranquilTempest

disregard


----------



## sepheroth003

So after not playing for about a year, I beat a single medium computer as zerg which I never really played much of before. I'm so baller. lol


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> You won't be getting 60fps if you have Starcraft 2 set on Extreme Graphics at 1080 resolution, like what his friend wants it to be set at. Sure, you might get a decent boost, from 20ish to 40ish, but that's about it.


yea, i do. lol


----------



## HarrisLam

i think i put settings on half ultra half high, and it performs quite well @1080p. probably a spike when things get messy in 4v4, but you really can't complain about that.

an absolute constant of 60fps is a bit asking for too much, something I noticed about 3D gaming is that it doesn't even if you got a monster rig, you will still have spikes from time to time, probably less frequent than your average mid-high tier rigs, but that's about it.

Hell, ,my rig was at 200 fps when I played the tutorial of witcher ONE and I thought my rig was bad ass, only to find out later that it goes down to like 30~40 fps when there are like 20 npc's around.

Don't even make sense but it just happens.


----------



## connectwise

You better be on gomtv soon, GSL code s final coming up! If you don't watch then you're killing esports!


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> You better be on gomtv soon, GSL code s final coming up! If you don't watch then you're killing esports!


Haha







ZvZ is killing e-sports!


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> yea, i do. lol


I am not going to believe you unless you can prove it. And I would really like the proof because I really would love to know that we can get a constant min of 60 fps throughout everything in a match(focus on a bit on zerg since they seem to hit fps the most with their units like broodlords attacking, ect.)

@harrislam while spikes does happen, I disagree that it doesn't make sense. Most of the time it is just too many people/units around that taxes the cpu in making sure they are all moving the way they should. It taxes it even further when it has to do that while the npcs/units do complecated tasks. Like battle, did the attack hit or miss? If so how much damage? Any buffs or debuffs that would affect damage? Does the damage reach or exceeds the current life of the unit. If so then the death animation must be played. Ect.

This causes a lot of people to only look at min fps since it usually only get that low during the extensive stuff/aka the spikes.

If the system can give you a min fps of what you want(let's say 60) in a game during its most extensive tasks then you usually don't have to worry about spikes throughout the rest of the game.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> @harrislam while spikes does happen, I disagree that it doesn't make sense. Most of the time it is just too many people/units around that taxes the cpu in making sure they are all moving the way they should. It taxes it even further when it has to do that while the npcs/units do complecated tasks. Like battle, did the attack hit or miss? If so how much damage? Any buffs or debuffs that would affect damage? Does the damage reach or exceeds the current life of the unit. If so then the death animation must be played. Ect.
> 
> This causes a lot of people to only look at min fps since it usually only get that low during the extensive stuff/aka the spikes.
> 
> If the system can give you a min fps of what you want(let's say 60) in a game during its most extensive tasks then you usually don't have to worry about spikes throughout the rest of the game.


I was talking about witcher 1, game from 2007, on sig rig, at a scene where there's slightly more NPC's, but absolutely no battle or special effects were playing.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I was talking about witcher 1, game from 2007, on sig rig, at a scene where there's slightly more NPC's, but absolutely no battle or special effects were playing.


Interesting, I want to test it out, can you tell me which act? Might take me a while to get to it tho as I am slowly playing through the game for the first time.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> Interesting, I want to test it out, can you tell me which act? Might take me a while to get to it tho as I am slowly playing through the game for the first time.


good for you

its on act 2? I think? The act where you where saved by merigold, discovered her house.

It's at the market place of that area with like dudes dancing and vendors, stuff like that.

Good game, just me not so much into non-fully-customizable characters.

Anyway, back to SC now









playing dota intensively these days didnt even touch SC, will definitely buy HotS though.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Newegg just shipped out my HotS preorder!!!


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Newegg just shipped out my HotS preorder!!!


NIIIIICEEEE!!!

I've spent the whole day playing SC2, and had a great time. Since the last patch, or since I've played more games, I'm not sure which, but the matchmaking AI seems a whole lot better now. I'm getting far more opponents at around my level, with occasional blips in either direction. I played a master leaguer today, and a guy who'd just started. Most players were sort of my level though.

Most of all, just two months into playing any RTS at all, I'm at level 1 bronze now. Delighted!! I suck, LOL.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> NIIIIICEEEE!!!
> 
> I've spent the whole day playing SC2, and had a great time. Since the last patch, or since I've played more games, I'm not sure which, but the matchmaking AI seems a whole lot better now. I'm getting far more opponents at around my level, with occasional blips in either direction. I played a master leaguer today, and a guy who'd just started. Most players were sort of my level though.
> 
> Most of all, just two months into playing any RTS at all, I'm at level 1 bronze now. Delighted!! I suck, LOL.


A masters player in league?


----------



## Ergates

I have no idea why, it was funny though. He was coaching me all the while wearing down my stuff.


----------



## MKUL7R4

LOL I just made someone rage pretty hard. completely ROLLED him with fully upped lings/banes/ultras/infestors. all he had was marines/marauders/medivacs/hellions. no tanks.

his response:

SyphoN: you are f-ing stupid
Me: why
SyphoN: you are wasting your time on this game and you will never be pro
***Rage QQ***

lol. isn't he wasting his time on the game too? except that he's even worse than me being not pro?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> LOL I just made someone rage pretty hard. completely ROLLED him with fully upped lings/banes/ultras/infestors. all he had was marines/marauders/medivacs/hellions. no tanks.
> 
> his response:
> 
> SyphoN: you are f-ing stupid
> Me: why
> SyphoN: you are wasting your time on this game and you will never be pro
> ***Rage QQ***
> 
> lol. isn't he wasting his time on the game too? except that he's even worse than me being not pro?


hahahaha!!!


----------



## Bdebrooke

http://www.artscow.com/ProductDetail.aspx?DesignId=105336695 Using the Dollar Mousepad deal to get this badboy , My Favorite SC Person <3


----------



## Sainesk

Do they have free shipping on again? I made a Dawn of War pad back when they had the free ones, wouldn't mind a SC themed one... Does anyone know if any retail stores are selling physical HOTS copies yet? I mean it's not like anyone can play before the servers go live anyway... My amazon one says shipping soon (Canada) and I doubt i'll have it by 3:01 a.m. EST







might have to cave for a digital version since I seem to be in the one place that won't have a midnight launch event... Edit: Amazon order shipped with an estimated arrival of tomorrow yay (sorry I ever doubted you guys).


----------



## DoomDash

I am absoultely terrible now. Anyone who hasn't quit that is masters+ want to teach me how to play Terran all over again, as well as the meta game? I can't even beat Diamond players anymore.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I am absoultely terrible now. Anyone who hasn't quit that is masters+ want to teach me how to play Terran all over again, as well as the meta game? I can't even beat Diamond players anymore.


I'm Diamond so I am willing to kick your butt







no srsly, I wouldn't mind playing a game or two, might just warm you up and put your system in to gear?

vet.roland on skype if you are interested.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> http://www.artscow.com/ProductDetail.aspx?DesignId=105336695 Using the Dollar Mousepad deal to get this badboy , My Favorite SC Person <3


rofl rep+


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Ugh... I ordered two copies of HotS for myself and my brother with the discount code on Newegg. Mine was sent out but his was voided because it "failed verification" and now my account is suspended. How ridiculous.


----------



## XCII

Someone should make a OCN group in SC for us to join.


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XCII*
> 
> Someone should make a OCN group in SC for us to join.


There used to be one in WOL but it was very inactive. There weren't too many ppl on unfortunately. Let's hope HoTS fixes that problem


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> There used to be one in WOL but it was very inactive. There weren't too many ppl on unfortunately. Let's hope HoTS fixes that problem


I used to be in our channel 24/7 when I played this full time. The good old days.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm Diamond so I am willing to kick your butt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no srsly, I wouldn't mind playing a game or two, might just warm you up and put your system in to gear?
> 
> vet.roland on skype if you are interested.


I will add you tonight.


----------



## trivium nate

preordered this yesterday woot!


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I used to be in our channel 24/7 when I played this full time. The good old days.
> I will add you tonight.


Yeah I remember seeing you all the time. Too bad there weren't too many others. Hope to see you in hots


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> Using the Dollar Mousepad deal to get this badboy , My Favorite SC Person <3


I'm tempted to get this







:


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XCII*
> 
> Someone should make a OCN group in SC for us to join.


Okay, the group is called OCN (so creative







) since periods aren't allowed in the name. Hopefully groups will carry over to HOTS...

edit: just started HOTS campaign (Brutal), epic so far...


----------



## drufause

Just picked up mine


----------



## Alex132

Gonna go now to pick up HotS.

Played WoL again, haven't in like 6 months. First placement match I get put up against a pro sponsored by Razer. Ugh.


----------



## DoomDash

I joined our OCN group. I love the UI and new HotS features so far. I won my first placement match, wooo.


----------



## gunslinger0077

Hey guys I joined the group this am ill be playing this afternoon!!!


----------



## Jamar2013

+1 for a HOTS SC2 Group ! If it is not already made... if so.. link plz


----------



## DoomDash

It's just "OCN".


----------



## DigitalSavior

Told myself I wasn't going to get this, and I just ran over to Best Buy and picked up a CE


----------



## Jamar2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's just "OCN".


I am not finding any "OCN" named Starcraft 2 HOTS group/club... beside this .

Maybe i just misunderstood everything....but if really there is a SC2 HOTS Overclock group or club, i would like to have the link, if any of you have it


----------



## gunslinger0077

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jamar2013*
> 
> I am not finding any "OCN" named Starcraft 2 HOTS group/club... beside this .
> 
> Maybe i just misunderstood everything....but if really there is a SC2 HOTS Overclock group or club, i would like to have the link, if any of you have it


search for ocn in game


----------



## Jamar2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunslinger0077*
> 
> search for ocn in game


I was not searching for a SC2 clan, but for an overclock group or club or anything ^^ But its alright. I will check that clan when i will be at home tonight. For the club, someone should make one


----------



## DoomDash

Well on SCII they have groups now. I meant we have a group called "OCN" on SCII.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

It HotS out today? I pre-ordered with WoL last month, so either way I might as well keep sluging away at that for now, although I finished it before on a friends rig


----------



## DoomDash

Yes.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I joined our OCN group. I love the UI and new HotS features so far. I won my first placement match, wooo.


Congrats! I wasn't in the beta so I will have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. gonna try the campaign on Brutal first I think.

should have my physical copy from Newegg tomorrow.


----------



## Jamar2013

I can't wait to play !! I download the patch at home while being at work... I just keep thinking about it hehe ! I was not in the beta, i will probably try the Brutal Campagn, as being a native Zerg player







( i didnt do the WOL campagn at all.. 0%, not even the first mission







).

Did i say i am eager to play ?


----------



## -SE7EN-

can anyone link me to an up-to-date, as of launch, change list between WoL and HotS? I see a lot that were like pre-beta, and a lot has been changed since then. thanks!


----------



## Jamar2013

# READY TO PLAY ! #


----------



## Anti!!

FREAKING AMAZON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 ONE on onee onenenejfdkajfask;hfakd;ghkjas;gkjaskjdgkjagkjadsgkj;

These morons!!! I Pre-Orderd my game NOVEMBER 28th. Now I get an email saying my card was declined cause they didnt try to even debt it until LAST NIGHT!!! OF COURSE IT IS DECLINED, IT EXPIRED IN DECEMBER!!!!! AAAAAACCCKkkKKKkK!!!!

Freakin ticks me off...

Ruined my whole launch experience.!!

If I find a phone number user beware!!!!

I even played beta the whole time with the beta key AMAZON GAVE ME!!!! How the heck do they not get their money first??!! I really dont even have the money for this now!

I so pissed off..


----------



## Jamar2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-SE7EN-*
> 
> can anyone link me to an up-to-date, as of launch, change list between WoL and HotS? I see a lot that were like pre-beta, and a lot has been changed since then. thanks!





Spoiler: Here is my StarCraft II Patch Notes, just before clicking play !



StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm is Now Live!

Players who have purchased the Heart of the Swarm expansion now have access to all of its content.

Continue the epic single-player campaign and story.
Command the Zerg Swarm in 20 brand-new missions across seven dramatic story arcs.
Conquer foes and evolve your brood in seven Evolution Mission skirmishes.
Explore dangerous new worlds with 14 additional tilesets.
Relive every exciting moment by unlocking the Master Archives. After completing the Heart of the Swarm campaign, you can use the Master Archives to jump directly into any mission or replay any cinematic.
Experience the enhanced multiplayer game.
Seven new units have been added across the Terran, Protoss, and Zerg races.
Intriguing upgrades and abilities have been retrofitted to a number of existing Wings of Liberty units.
There are 26 new multiplayer maps of all sizes to wage war on!
Experience a completely revamped physics system.
Death animations have been updated to take advantage of advanced physics effects.
After being killed, units can fall off cliff edges, slide down ramps, glide across ice, and more.
Many physics-triggered sounds have been paired with these new visual effects.
Level up with the new Leveling System.
Completing Heart of the Swarm matches now grants XP.
Level up to unlock new skins, animations, race specific portraits, and decals.
Control AI partners using the "AI Communication" system.
Players can now work closely and strategize with their AI partners.
You can issue specific commands to AI teammates, such as where to attack, defend, scout, and expand.
Heart of the Swarm includes all of the awesome new features recently added in Patch 2.0.4, including the updated user interface, clans and groups, new replay features, unranked play, global play, language selection, and much more!

If you have any issues or concerns, we're here to help:

Patch Troubleshooting
Installation Troubleshooting
Connection Troubleshooting
Known Issues List
Good luck and have fun!

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty Patch 2.0.5

GENERAL

Global Play is now live.
Players can now easily switch between regions via the new "Regions" button on the StarCraft II login screen.
Your game language and user interface will not change when you change regions.
Your character profiles and ladder data are unique to each region.
When your region's game servers are undergoing maintenance, you may be able to play in a different region that is not down for maintenance.
For more information, please visit our Global Play FAQ on our support site.
BUG FIXES

General
StarCraft II will no longer download upcoming patch data while the game is running.
Fixed an issue where players would be unable to change their language if patch data was not 100% downloaded via the game launcher.
Fixed several issues causing the game to turn unresponsive when pausing and leaving the game in various states.
Fixed an issue that would cause the game to run low on video memory.
Fixed a desync that could occur between Mac and PC if an AI was scouted with a cloaked unit.
Fixed a crash that could occur in rare situations when force-quitting StarCraft II.
Fixed a number of crashes that could occur when viewing and rewinding replays.
Fixed an issue where players could not hear voice chat when using the FMod provider.
The language selection dropdown should no longer display an incorrect language.
Fixed a crash that could occur when playing some Arcade games when using a custom hotkey profile.
Fixed a countdown display issue when utilizing the Take Command feature in the Korean and Taiwanese game clients.
Battle.net
It is now possible to properly un-bookmark Arcade maps from outside of the Bookmark page.
Fixed a number of issues related to the "only officers will be shown" warning text reserved for Groups with large rosters.
Clans and Groups rosters are no longer sorted in reverse order.
Clans and Groups are now defined properly in chat when typing in a game.
Fixed a crash that could occur when creating a Clan or Group using certain combinations of special characters.
Fixed a display issue that could occur when scrolling down a large Group roster list.
It is now possible to use special characters in Clan and Group names.
It is now possible to use spaces in the names of groups in the Russian game client.
Fixed an issue for players in Korean or Taiwanese game clients who were unable to add Battle Tag friends in certain situations.
Editor
Fixed a crash that could occur when double-clicking an .SC2Map file while the editor was downloading required dependencies.

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty Patch 2.0.4

GENERAL

All-New Menu Screens
The User Interface layout, art, and graphic style have been completely revamped.
Players are now one click away from any major screen in the User Interface.
Many redundant screens and game modes have been eliminated.
More detailed information can be found in our Heart of the Swarm UI Update blog post.
Clans and Groups
Anyone can now create or join a Clan and participate in private clan chat, post news on Clan affairs, and more. Clan tags are pre-pended to character names of all players who join a Clan.
Groups are for players who want to associate casually and in larger numbers. Joining a Group is a way for players to interact with others who share common interests. Players are allowed to join many different groups.
Players who have used their free character name change will receive an additional one.
Check out our StarCraft blog for more detailed information on Clans and Groups, as well as our Social Features video.
Exciting New Replay Features
Watch with Others: Players can now watch replays with others in the same game.
Take Command: Players watching a replay together can also opt to "Take Command" of the replay and assume control of selected player armies.
Recover Game: Players can now choose to recover from a game that may have ended prematurely due to disconnection, input loss, or other abnormal causes.
For more details, see our New Replay and Resume Features Coming in Heart of the Swarm overview blog post.
Improved Score Screen and Statistics
Performance tab now tracks gameplay stats such as Average Unspent Resources, Time Supply Capped, Workers Created, and APM.
New buttons allow players to "Play Again" or "Watch Replay Solo" directly from the post-game Score Screen.
Additional Race and Map Report statistics pages in the Ladders section of the Player Profile:
Race Report: Tracks number of games played and win/loss ratios for every race matchup.
Map Report: Tracks number of games played and win/loss ratios on every ladder map.
Player Profile now shows all wins and losses for all leagues.
Global Play and Language Selection
Players will soon have the freedom to select any game region to connect to and play.
Global Play will be enabled in the coming weeks. Please see our Global Play FAQ.
Players can now select among different languages in StarCraft II.
Speech and Movie Language options added to the Options > Language menu.
Text Language added to the Options > Language menu.
New Matchmaking Options
Three options have been added to the Matchmaking Screen to help newer players make a more gradual transition from single-player to multiplayer.
Training Mode allows players to work their way up from basic StarCraft gameplay skills to great challenges.
Versus AI Mode is a reworking of the previous Coop Versus AI Mode in Wings of Liberty.
Players can now utilize the matchmaking system to challenge an AI opponent that scales in difficulty.
The new matchmaking AI can accommodate a wide variety of skill levels and play styles.
Unranked Play allows players to engage in matchmaking and find games vs. other players without the pressures of the ranking system.
For more details on these new features, please see our Ways to Play video overview.
All-New AI Enhancements
The overall AI play experienced has been greatly enhanced.
In a custom game, players can now elect for an AI player to follow a specific build order, such as Full Rush, Timing Attack, Straight to Air, and more.
AI players will now report key information back to their player allies, such as when they are scouting, attacking, expanding, and retreating.
Additional AI improvements, including the ability to issue specific commands to AI partners, will be coming in Heart of the Swarm.
Players Near You
Players Near You identifies and displays other players on your local network, making it easier to locate, chat with, friend, and play together.
This feature can be disabled in the Options > Social menu.
Game Privacy options
No Build Order: Selecting this option in the Custom Game lobby hides the build order from being displayed in the Score Screen.
No Match History: Selecting this option hides the game from the player's Match History.
New Enable Group Sounds option in the Options > Sound menu produces additional sounds for groups of units performing the same activity, such as Marine marches, mech ground-shaking, and more.
The Help Section has been revised and updated.
USER INTERFACE

In-Game UI Improvements
New waypoint and targeting confirmation icons have been added.
The Menu and Help buttons are now located above the command card alongside the Social button.
The Achievements and Message Log menus are now accessible via the Main Menu.
New Select Army Units button is located next to the Idle Worker and Select all Warp Gates buttons. These buttons are now all consolidated together in the UI above the minimap.
Decal art has been refreshed and now appears brighter and more visible in-game.
New Victory Fanfare sequences now play when a players is victorious at the end of a game.
New Unit Life Bar settings have been added to the Gameplay section of the Options menu:
Targeting: Shows friendly units when targeting a beneficial ability and enemy units when targeting a harmful ability.
Damaged: Only show for units with less than their maximum life, energy, or shields.
New UI options have been added to aid newer players in various gameplay functions. These can be toggled in the Options > Controls menu:
Display Team Colored Life Bar: Displays unit life bars using team color.
Always Show Worker Status: Displays the current and ideal number of workers above harvestable vespene geysers and town halls.
Enable Simple Command Card: Displays a more simplified view of the command card.
Show Current Order Indicator: Displays an indicator on the terrain when units are issued a movement or attack command.
Select All Larvae: Selecting a single larva will select all larvas attached to the same Hatchery.
Enable Enemy Unit Selection: Allows the player to select units that can't be controlled such as neutral and enemy units.
The maximum numbers of players that can be in a party has been raised to 16.
All maps that appear in the Custom Games section can now utilize the same Game Info pages (Overview, How to Play, Patch Notes, Reviews) that Arcade games received with Patch 1.5.0.
New Copy Link buttons have been added, which automatically copy certain links tthe clipboard, allowing players to share them with others via clickable links in chat or on the web. When clicked, these links will navigate to the in-game page.
Observer Mode Improvements
Leaderboard
Added two new tabs:
Structures Tab (hotkey T): This panel shows the structures owned by each player.
Upgrades Tab (hotkey G): This panel shows the upgrades researched by each player.
Clicking on an icon in the Units/Structures/Production tabs will now center the camera on that unit. Continued clicks will cycle through all units of that type.
Minimap
Attacked units now flash white for observers.
Nuclear Launch and Nydus Canals now create pings on the minimap for Observers viewing Everyone.
Versus Mode Side Toggle (Hotkey CTRL-X)
Added a hotkey to flip sides that player names appear in the Observer UI when watching a Versus Mode 1v1 game.
Customizable Observer UI
Brand new SC2Interface mod support has been added, which enables casters and observers to watch games of StarCraft II using a completely custom user interface. This gives production crews a new set of powerful tools to create even more epic broadcast experiences.
For more information on how to use this feature, please see this thread in our User Interface forums.
Players who have blocked communication with others are now also prohibited from initiating chat with those they have blocked.
EDITOR

General
A new preload Info dialog has been added for defining game data, asset files, and banks to be preloaded in-game. This is accessible from the Map/Mod menus in all modules.
Added color preferences for text preview display.
The Arcade Info dialog has been renamed tBattle.net Info. This info is now available for non-arcade maps as well.
New SC2Interface files:
Mods can now optionally be saved as SC2Interface files as long as they don't have any data which affects gameplay.
Mod gameplay/interface status can be checked using the Mod > Mod Status window.
New Export Locales and Import Locales commands have been added. These are available under the Map/Mod > Locales sub-menu. These can be used to export and import localized text to and from text files.
The Dependency dialog now includes a display of the full dependency chain resulting from the requested dependencies. Dependency reference checking and validation now accounts for the full chain properly in all cases.
The Dependency dialog now issues a warning when Multi mods are used in conjunction with Story mods. These are designed to be mutually exclusive and could cause a variety of problems in game when combined.
Added toolbar button size preference.
AI Module
A new Attack Wave Graphs window is now available from the Data menu, for visualizing attack wave cost/supplies vs. time.
Cutscene Module
Added Cutscene Frames. Cutscene frames are dialog items you can play a cutscene in.
New Properties have been added:
Animation Element:
Right-Aligned: Animations can now specify that they always end at the end of the block.
Weight: The blend value for this animation block.
Director Node:
Reverb: The reverb to set while playing back the cutscene.
Auto Destroy on End: When disabled, the cutscene will not be destroyed when it ends, but instead it will pause on the final frame.
Sound Node:
Non-Seeking: If enabled, causes the sound to not change its current time when the current time jumps.
Speaker Mix: You can now set and animate the speaker mix values.
Fade Node
Priority: Allows you to specify the priority level of a fade when multiple scenes attempt to control fade.
Terrain is now automatically imported when starting the Cutscene Module.
Active Light Nodes will now search for a light suffixed with "_Low" if graphics options are set to Medium or Low.
New icons added for all node types!
Added a new "Time Follows Edits" mode under the edit menu that causes the timeline cursor to always follow the edited block.
Sound Improvements:
Added Sound Group Nodes: These folder-like nodes allow you to add sound nodes to them then set properties for all sounds inside the group at once.
Volume and pitch properties are now treated as multipliers instead of absolute values.
Setting sound index t-1 now causes it to pick a new variation each time it plays.
Sounds now properly fade out after their blocks end.
Sounds can now specify Active Shots.
Value changes that represent less than 0.1% of a difference no longer create new keys in auto key mode.
You can now add multiple cutscene filters when playing back a cutscene.
Cutscenes are now played back in Replays.
Data Module
Added the Data Navigator Window. This new window visualizes how objects are linked to one another.
Each tab in the Data Module now remembers its own view mode.
Model Preview Panes now animate with the model's default animation, making effects easier to identify.
New data types have been added: Herd, Herd Node
User Type fields defining user links can optionally specify a required user type
Added a new Select in Palette command.
Added F2 support for renaming objects.
"Show Advanced Values" is now "Show Basic Field Labels". Instead of hiding advanced fields, it adds "(Basic)" to the name of basic fields and sorts them to the top.
Fixed size arrays are now edited as one control for each array entry rather than using a list-based UI.
"Show Default Values" is now "Sort Fields By Source". Instead of hiding default values, it will sort values in the order: Active Document, User Mod, Blizzard Mod, Core Mod.
Added field hint tooltips to dropdowns for enum type fields.
Structure sub-fields now properly display composite field hint tooltips.
Many new field hints added for Abilities, Actors, Effects, and Units.
Overview Manager
Added a new Jump To Instances command in the context menu for jumping from function definition to corresponding calls.
Added a new Show Global Links Only option in the View menu for seeing global trigger elements directly in the Used By links.
Terrain Module
A new Diamond region shape has been added.
A new Diagonal Selection option has been added in the Tools menu for selecting objects and terrain along the diagonal grid.
A new View option has been added for displaying normal/upgraded creep, under View > Show Terrain > Show Creep Upgraded.
Units marked as Initially Hidden will use an alpha fade effect in the editor display.
Palette existing objects lists now include a Group filter and column, and context menus for Add To Group and Remove From Group.
The Water palette now includes a Height slider for adjusting the height of the current water template.
No Fly Zones now have three color states: Normal (no overlap), Overlap (hard radii overlap), and Warning (only soft radii overlap). For best pathing performance, avoid the Warning state.
Foliage density maximum reduced to 2.0 per cell. Anything larger than this significantly impacts game performance.
Added "Force Occlusion Hide" to placed doodads, which forces doodads to be transparent if units are behind it.
Trigger Module
Added a Preview button for previewing sounds directly from parameter dialog.
A View History Navigation option, including Back and Forward commands, is now available from View > History sub-menu.
A new Explorer view has been added for seeing global elements referenced by the currently selected element, available under View > Show Explorer.
A new Smart group display has been added, which opens a second group only when an element is explicitly viewed via double-click or View Selection command. This is toggled under View > Show Groups.
Libraries defined in the active document are now shown in the Triggers list rather than the Libraries list. The Libraries list will only contain read-only dependency libraries.
Elements can now be dragged and dropped from one library to another. This will include updating all usage of those elements in the active document.
A new view option has been added for setting default input focus on search fields vs. lists, available under View > View Options > Default focus On Search Fields.
BUG FIXES

General
Fixed a crash that would occur when StarCraft II is run with low disk space.
Fixed an error that occasionally occurred when queuing for a match if a disconnection occurred in the previous game.
It is no longer possible to build Creep Tumors on top of lowered Supply Depots.
Fixed an issue preventing Zerglings, Roaches, and Ultralisks from autocasting Unburrow when an enemy Colossus was near.
Fixed an issue where Hallucinated units would not play Hallucination death animations when playing in Reduced Violence mode.
Battle.net
It is no longer possible for duplicate versions of the same Arcade game to display in the Top Rated dropdown filter.
Fixed a display issue with the scroll bar on the Replays page.
Fixed a display issue that could occur when viewing Patch Notes for an Arcade game.
Arcade games played through Fun or Not now appear properly in the Match History and Recently Played lists.
Clicking Create Game in the Single-player Vs. AI menu while a map is downloading no longer causes the game t enter a state where it is unable to launch any maps.
Fixed an issue causing a player's online status tbe set to Available when it was changed from Away to Busy.
Fixed issues with some displays that could occur when viewing Arcade Game Info pages while queuing up for matchmaking games.
Fixed an issue causing the race selection buttons on 3vAI queues to occasionally change to names of colors.
Editor
General
Automatic backups for documents saved as component lists will now properly save multiple backup files.
Tutorial game variant will not be changed when other variants are added or removed.
Fixed various issues with downloading dependency data from Battle.net when opening a document.
Fixed issues with team settings in variants for maps with a large number of players.
Fixed an issue where the editor could crash if the user's build was not completely downloaded.
Cutscene Module
Fixed several issues related to Undo/Redo.
Fixed several issues related to element linking.
You can now place or move objects at height zero if there is no terrain visible.
Actors with conversation nodes will now animate when not in view, allowing dialog to play at the correct time.
Active Light elements no longer change the light one frame late.
You can now chain together bookmark jumps.
You can no longer use non-Ascii characters in Cutscene Names or Bookmark Names.
You can no longer rename the (Previewer) scene.
Scenes with very large linking webs should now load much faster.
Fixed a bug where models would sometimes continue to draw when switching cutscenes.
Editing curve values should now preserve custom curve tangents.
Previewing from other modules will now set the Cutscene Module back to the (Previewer) scene.
Terrain Module
Painted pathing visibility is now properly tied to visibility of the Pathing layer.
Distance measurement now accounts for ramps properly.
Trigger Module
Eliminated excessive delays when modifying functions which are heavily used in the document.
Comments can now be moved/pasted into switch cases.
Ability Commands using Any or All sub-types will now show all possible parameter values.
Unit trigger events now properly handle using a unit array element for the unit parameter.
Last Created functions now return an empty value if the last creation failed, rather than the result of the previous creation.
Invalid effect ids will no longer be treated as "any effect" in events.
Data conversations with choices will now run properly in game, as long as cinematic mode is enabled.
Fixed an out of memory crash that could occur when adding a region to itself using triggers.
It is now possible to copy triggers across libraries inside the same mod.
Data Module
Ability and Weapon Arc data values now accept 360 as values.
Mac
General
Targeting arrow reticules now display properly when shaders are set to low.
Fixed an issue with "Disable OS Keyboard Shortcuts" and the mouse cursor.
Fixed an issue with resolution options being limited on Thunderbolt displays.
Editor
Points in the Curve Editor can now properly be deleted.
Placing keys in the Curve Editor are now being created correctly.
Text labels are no longer clipped in the Curve Editor.
Fixed an issue involving Vertices and Primitives on the status bar.
Fixed a crash that could occasionally occur when attempting to publish a map.
Fixed an issue involving setting up multi-dimensional arrays in the Trigger Module.
The mouse cursor is now visible in the viewpoint windows.
Fixed an issue with the status bar overlapping text when using the Regions or Cameras layer in the Terrain Module.
Improved Retina hardware compatibility.
CMD + Tilde will now switch between multiple editor windows.


----------



## -SE7EN-

thx and rep


----------



## HometownHero

Been a busy couple of weeks for me but finally freed up some time to play. Gotta get the campaign over first and get some achievements before I start mine dropping poor zergs on the ladder.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Been a busy couple of weeks for me but finally freed up some time to play. Gotta get the campaign over first and get some achievements before I start mine dropping poor zergs on the ladder.


Especially with ya'lls turbo jet drop ships.. lol!!

On another note JUSTICE HAS CAME TO RaGinNyDus!!!!!!

This little sweetheart from amazon has discounted HoTs to me for 29.99 total, and is over night shipping my physical copy to me for FREE!! WOOT.


----------



## HometownHero

That's good news, hurry up and install it so we can get some ladder games going.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Especially with ya'lls turbo jet drop ships.. lol!!
> 
> On another note JUSTICE HAS CAME TO RaGinNyDus!!!!!!
> 
> This little sweetheart from amazon has discounted HoTs to me for 29.99 total, and is over night shipping my physical copy to me for FREE!! WOOT.


How did u get it discounted?


----------



## Binary Ecyrb

My body is ready....


----------



## TenaciousRig

^^ Maaaaan, I really should have held out for the Collectors Edition. All those goodies are a beautiful sight.







I just haaaad to be inpatient and get the digital version. lol


----------



## DoomDash

I have the digital deluxe and the CE which I was going to put on my wifes account. I don't know if I need two accounts these days though.


----------



## Binary Ecyrb

Installing now....


----------



## CravinR1

I forgot to order and now it will be a few days before I can play


----------



## xeekei

Didn't know there was an SC2 thread on OCN.







That's awesome!
I'm a silver player, so I'll go through these tips one by one, for sure!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> How did u get it discounted?


Probably price-matched from Newegg. Newegg ran several $10 off preorder promotions in the weeks leading up to the HotS release. I got my order in


----------



## Binary Ecyrb

Daaamn... upon first loading HOTS I had this deadly beauty staring right at me. Nice touch blizzard, Sarah never looked so evilishly good....


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TenaciousRig*
> 
> ^^ Maaaaan, I really should have held out for the Collectors Edition. All those goodies are a beautiful sight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just haaaad to be inpatient and get the digital version. lol


Hey, with the standard edition we get a lovely notepad.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Zeras missions



Anybody else feel that the Zurvan fight was a copy of the Zoltun Kulle final stage?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> How did u get it discounted?


Amazon was selling it for 39.99 already and they screwed me over. So I got them to uss a promo code with it and free overnight shipping.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> That's good news, hurry up and install it so we can get some ladder games going.


You dont want none of this Son!! Iz gotz 80 plus games of beta under mah belt!!

Actually ill probably be terrible now. Its been a month since I was shooting for masters on WOL.


----------



## mudman091878

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Amazon was selling it for 39.99 already and they screwed me over. .


Really don't understand how they screwed you over...it's standard practice to not bill a credit/debit card until the game ships. I preordered from newegg a good while back and I didn't get billed until the game shipped.


----------



## Sainesk

Completed Brutal HOTS campaign, the cinematics are pretty epic. If I had to rate it i'd say 8/10 for fun and diversity of missions. Too easy though imo; without spoiling anything, Kerrigan and certain evolutions are ridiculously overpowered (or maybe i'm just good with Zerg







).


----------



## sepheroth003

So what channel are we using in SC2? The first post of this thread says its OCN, I have OCN and overclock.net added to my channel list and havent seen anyone on in the last couple days. Trying to hit some of you guys up for some friendly games, maybe even just against bots because I am so bad right now.

I started the campaign this weekend after beating Crysis 2 and 3. (My new GPU needed tested







) It's really cool actually. I just finished the great train robery last night. I did buy HOTS, so I'll move onto that campaign after I beat WOL. Also will obviously play HOTS online with you guys.

Hope to see some of you around.


----------



## Faded

i'm barely into the game but i already know i'm going to love it.

I purposefully stayed away from any ingame cinematics so i was watching the early ones, for the first time... blown away.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mudman091878*
> 
> Really don't understand how they screwed you over...it's standard practice to not bill a credit/debit card until the game ships. I preordered from newegg a good while back and I didn't get billed until the game shipped.


It is stupid standard practice. Why give someone anything for free (eg. beta key) and not inform anyone that you wont bill until it ships? I had the money then and not 5 months later. There is so much that can happen in five months like a card expiring. I got screwed because they had my card info and knew that its expiration date was 12/12. I give someone my card info I expect them to be responsible and not leave to fine print to tell me I wont be debited until release five months later. Then just tell me they cant after it is to late to participate in the game release fun.

I also dont like a company 'holding' my credit card info. When sc2 wol first came out I pre ordered it at game stop and I gave them my info THEN and they charged me THEN and then I got my beta key. A company cannot assume money will be in someones account 5 months later and then just auto debt me and throw my checking account into the nsf charge abyss.

You accept what you want when you pay for something and I will accept what I will when I pay for something.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> So what channel are we using in SC2? The first post of this thread says its OCN, I have OCN and overclock.net added to my channel list and havent seen anyone on in the last couple days. Trying to hit some of you guys up for some friendly games, maybe even just against bots because I am so bad right now.
> 
> I started the campaign this weekend after beating Crysis 2 and 3. (My new GPU needed tested
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) It's really cool actually. I just finished the great train robery last night. I did buy HOTS, so I'll move onto that campaign after I beat WOL. Also will obviously play HOTS online with you guys.
> 
> Hope to see some of you around.


We probably got some different region and time difference issuez going on which would cause some confusion. We may need to specify what region and what the group name is again and update the OP.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It is stupid standard practice. Why give someone anything for free (eg. beta key) and not inform anyone that you wont bill until it ships? I had the money then and not 5 months later. There is so much that can happen in five months like a card expiring. I got screwed because they had my card info and knew that its expiration date was 12/12. I give someone my card info I expect them to be responsible and not leave to fine print to tell me I wont be debited until release five months later. Then just tell me they cant after it is to late to participate in the game release fun.
> 
> I also dont like a company 'holding' my credit card info. When sc2 wol first came out I pre ordered it at game stop and I gave them my info THEN and they charged me THEN and then I got my beta key. A company cannot assume money will be in someones account 5 months later and then just auto debt me and throw my checking account into the nsf charge abyss.
> 
> You accept what you want when you pay for something and I will accept what I will when I pay for something.


yeah i'm with you there, never been a fan of delayed payments on anything.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> So what channel are we using in SC2? The first post of this thread says its OCN, I have OCN and overclock.net added to my channel list and havent seen anyone on in the last couple days. Trying to hit some of you guys up for some friendly games, maybe even just against bots because I am so bad right now.


overclock.net is our old channel, OCN is our group. I recommend joining our group since it has chat built in (and more people usually in it). The group is pretty recent so it'll take a while for everyone to notice we have one and get it going, if i'm not mistaken groups are global so we can use one group no matter what region everyone is in.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> overclock.net is our old channel, OCN is our group. I recommend joining our group since it has chat built in (and more people usually in it). The group is pretty recent so it'll take a while for everyone to notice we have one and get it going, if i'm not mistaken groups are global so we can use one group no matter what region everyone is in.


I dont think so. Cause I can create the same group in different regions. May need to make sure.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I dont think so. Cause I can create the same group in different regions. May need to make sure.


Hrrm this is interesting because we have members in our Americas group that when you try to view their profile, it says they do not have a profile in the realm - now i'm confused. I guess temporarily we can have a group per region (all with the same name hopefully). I'd be happy to run our Americas one, though if there's anyone that wants to manage the other ones that would help since I mainly play on this region. I have SE Asia and Korea & Taiwan region groups made which I can hand over, and I think someone from OCN made our Europe group...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Hrrm this is interesting because we have members in our Americas group that when you try to view their profile, it says they do not have a profile in the realm - now i'm confused. I guess temporarily we can have a group per region (all with the same name hopefully). I'd be happy to run our Americas one, though if there's anyone that wants to manage the other ones that would help since I mainly play on this region. I have SE Asia and Korea & Taiwan region groups made which I can hand over, and I think someone from OCN made our Europe group...


This seems to be a bug. I had that happen after the latest WoL patch when someone I didn't know sent me a message. I tried to check his profile but it said he did not have a profile in the realm until I sent a reply. Only after that was I able to see it.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Never bothered with hots yet (our language will be dumbed down garbage when all tech breaks down after WW4)

Finishing WoL, I hate the junk yard mission. I can beat it on hard, following standard strategy, but can I use siege tanks be built for base defense? Used them to great effect in Haven's Fall this time where as last time I used bunkers.


----------



## sepheroth003

Settled then, I will look for the group. Obviously I cannot help run any of the other ones, I am US based.


----------



## TranquilTempest

I think Niadra is going to be the hardest boss in the LotV campaign.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I think Niadra is going to be the hardest boss in the LotV campaign.


pardon my ignorance but what is LotV?

i can ponder a guess... Lord of the... Va... nevermind....


----------



## xeekei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I think Niadra is going to be the hardest boss in the LotV campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> pardon my ignorance but what is LotV?
> 
> i can ponder a guess... Lord of the... Va... nevermind....
Click to expand...

Legacy of the Void. The Protoss campaign.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> pardon my ignorance but what is LotV?
> 
> i can ponder a guess... Lord of the... Va... nevermind....


Legacy of the Void 

since we mentioned it, I hope there will be some epic battlechest edition of SC2 after it comes out...


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Legacy of the Void
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since we mentioned, I hope there will be some epic battlechest edition after it comes out...


hah, didnt know the name... was just talking to a buddy about this... considering how much i liked Wings of Liberty and the quality i have seen in Heart of the Swarm, thus far... When the protoss campaign comes out, i will probably just pass out watching the opening cinema:thumb:tic...


----------



## DoomDash

I have an extra collectors edition I might sell eventually. I was going to put it on my wifes accout but meh.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Especially with ya'lls turbo jet drop ships.. lol!!
> 
> On another note JUSTICE HAS CAME TO RaGinNyDus!!!!!!
> 
> This little sweetheart from amazon has discounted HoTs to me for 29.99 total, and is over night shipping my physical copy to me for FREE!! WOOT.


Congrats

To be honest though they can't really NOT do this for you. It's a big site and this time it is completely their fault.


----------



## squall325

I have a problem here. My HoTS disc always get the "required file error" so I'm just patching up my current SC2:WoL installation. Does it already include HoTS or do I have to reinstall it from the online installer from scratch? I already upgraded my BNet account to HoTS.


----------



## kampia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> I have a problem here. My HoTS disc always get the "required file error" so I'm just patching up my current SC2:WoL installation. Does it already include HoTS or do I have to reinstall it from the online installer from scratch? I already upgraded my BNet account to HoTS.


If you log in to your battlenet account , press account button then Game accounts and then Starcraft II and download the game from there you will have Hots as well. At least thats what i did when hots came out and needed a clean install.
If you patch the already existing it will work as well.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Legacy of the Void
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since we mentioned it, I hope there will be some epic battlechest edition of SC2 after it comes out...


LOL... no no it is lord of the vag...

Question guys, do you actually need your wings of liberty account to play hots? Do you also have to have WoL installed first, or is HOTS stand alone?

I know I won't be playing too much multiplayer, kinda hard to justify spending the money on such a short and predictable campaign tbh.


----------



## squall325

so I really have to do a clean install? dang!

HoTS is an expansion.

I'll try to delete the battle.net mpq if it helps.


----------



## XCII

I finished the campaign yesterday and was really pleased with it. I've always loved the SC campaigns. I recommend everyone to play through it if they can









I guess I'll start the ladder now. I'm a little afraid. I started at low bronze when I got the game but worked my way to high silver/low gold. Hopefully I can still improve a good bit.
I'll join the group. I'm TaeyeoN.


----------



## sepheroth003

I thought it was odd as well, I installed SC2 last Wednesday. Then I bought HOTS Tuesday and didn't have to download anything else. The SC2 download already included HOTS, it was just a matter of if my account had HOTS access.

Well I'm on the last mission of SC2, finally going to beat the campaign tonight. Then I'll move onto the HOTS campaign.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> so I really have to do a clean install? dang!
> 
> HoTS is an expansion.
> 
> I'll try to delete the battle.net mpq if it helps.


You shouldn't need to clean install.

WOL background downloaded HOTS in the past few weeks. The downloaded files were encrypted. If you run WOL now you get a popup stating that the game files need to be optimalized. This optimilization is the instalation of HOTS.

When in game you can 'switch' between games in the options menu.


----------



## DoomDash

Still getting my ass handed to me. Need masters to teach me the right ways. I used to be that guy







.


----------



## CravinR1

Terran all in has owned me 4 times. I mean 3 rax + factory + vikings on one base

How do you hold this


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Terran all in has owned me 4 times. I mean 3 rax + factory + vikings on one base
> 
> How do you hold this


...what race are you playing?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Still getting my ass handed to me. Need masters to teach me the right ways. I used to be that guy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Go play some KR ladder. You'll quickly learn what does and doesn't work. (that's my plan after I'm done with campaign)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Terran all in has owned me 4 times. I mean 3 rax + factory + vikings on one base
> 
> How do you hold this


What are the vikings for?

A must watch game (Flash vs Life): http://www.twitch.tv/starcraft/b/376430397?t=1h34m
And replays: http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/blog/2680614


----------



## Sainesk

Lost a match because I thought corruptors were removed from HOTS







so I made mutas + hydras, then at the end I was like oh wait there they are (not removed)







was an insanely close match but my mutas didn't do so well vs battlecruisers and widow mines owned a lot of my ground forces.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Lost a match because I thought corruptors were removed from HOTS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so I made mutas + hydras, then at the end I was like oh wait there they are (not removed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> was an insanely close match but my mutas didn't do so well vs battlecruisers and widow mines owned a lot of my ground forces.


lol i've just been doing unranked matches. i wasn't in beta at all so I have no idea what the new metagames are like.


----------



## k249

Hi guys, I made a separate thread for this as well, but figured I'll post this inside here too.



We are researchers at the Cognitive Science Lab at SFU conducting a large-scale study on the development of expertise in SC2. This is done by taking replay files and measuring key variables such as Perception Action Cycles.

See here for a more detailed overview of our research objectives. Please also view our interview on the Daily Planet.

Thanks to the online community, we received over 4400 replay files from players during our first data collection period. During this first collection period, we asked players to submit a single replay file along with his or her respective in-game ranking. Here are some interesting findings from the data so far!

For the data collection period on now, we are aiming for a more accurate picture of skill development by measuring skill development at a more individual level. To achieve this we are looking for players who have kept a large collection of personal replay files (300+)!

We need your help in collecting these replays. Please spread the word and encourage players to submit replay files to http://skillcraft.ca/.

Follow our Twitter SkillCraftCa for more updates. If you use Twitter, the easiest way to help is by re-tweeting our posts!

Thanks for your support!
Please direct any questions to our either our Facebook page or our Reddit thread.


----------



## CravinR1

I'm Protoss and the vikings are cause I hold best I can and get a colo or 2 asap while constanly being pressured. Its almost impossible to hold without AoE


----------



## squall325

is it just mine or when you install SC2 from the disc, it stops around 0.5% then starts to download around 6-7GB of files or does it resume to disc install later? This is frustrating. :|


----------



## -SE7EN-

So... today my account was supposedly compromised. I have up-to-date ESET antivirus, don't visit unknown websites, use Thunderbird for email (maybe not too much help, but doesn't load anything besides text when looking at mail, I also don't click links anyways) so I feel pretty secure. My battle.net password is unique (meaning I don't use it for other sites or games). Anyways, I go to log in to HotS (this is around maybe 5pm-ish, maybe even 6) and am given an incorrect password warning. This happens a few times, so I go to check the forums, and they are having some NA logon issues. I chalk it up to those, and go do other stuff for a while. Come back, the forums say the problem should be fixed, so I try again. Incorrect password still. I go to login to the site so I can request support, and it is incorrect. So I login to my email, and it says that at 6:40 I had changed my password. This is well over an hour after the first time it told me my password was wrong. I re-change my password to a new one (takes them less than 2 minutes to send me an email, so assuming the 'fake' one from 6:40 was also on-time), file a live chat ticket. Nothing. No one has been on my account. Diablo 3 wasn't logged into within 2 weeks and StarCraft 2 hadn't been logged into for the past day. I log into Diablo 3 just to check, and all my gear is there. I just don't know what to make of this lol. Hacked account with nothing used/stolen, or just some technical messup that makes it look like my account was compromised?


----------



## TenaciousRig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-SE7EN-*
> 
> So... today my account was supposedly compromised. I have up-to-date ESET antivirus, don't visit unknown websites, use Thunderbird for email (maybe not too much help, but doesn't load anything besides text when looking at mail, I also don't click links anyways) so I feel pretty secure. My battle.net password is unique (meaning I don't use it for other sites or games). Anyways, I go to log in to HotS (this is around maybe 5pm-ish, maybe even 6) and am given an incorrect password warning. This happens a few times, so I go to check the forums, and they are having some NA logon issues. I chalk it up to those, and go do other stuff for a while. Come back, the forums say the problem should be fixed, so I try again. Incorrect password still. I go to login to the site so I can request support, and it is incorrect. So I login to my email, and it says that at 6:40 I had changed my password. This is well over an hour after the first time it told me my password was wrong. I re-change my password to a new one (takes them less than 2 minutes to send me an email, so assuming the 'fake' one from 6:40 was also on-time), file a live chat ticket. Nothing. No one has been on my account. Diablo 3 wasn't logged into within 2 weeks and StarCraft 2 hadn't been logged into for the past day. I log into Diablo 3 just to check, and all my gear is there. I just don't know what to make of this lol. Hacked account with nothing used/stolen, or just some technical messup that makes it look like my account was compromised?


That sucks man!







I had a similar issues a couple of months ago. My Battle.net account was hacked by someone but I was lucky enough to get an email shortly after the guy hacked it informing me of my changed password and associated email address. Tried everything on the FAQ page with nothing working and had to resort to calling Blizzard tech support directly (Nothing worked on the FAQ site because most of it is assuming you can still log in and since the email for my account was changed I couldn't do jack). I was lucky in that I had a physical disc of WoL that I could read off the serial code to verify I was the owner. Tech guy said they had been having a string of hacks at the time and reset everything for me no problems. When I finally got back in and changed all my info back I did some digging and found (I think) that the guy who hacked me was based out of China. He didn't change or mess with anything else that I was able to find...just hacked and changed password and email. If nothing else works try calling Blizz, they were really helpful and pretty quick with my problem. Also, try getting one of the mobile authenticators (even if it turns out it was just a bug and not hacked). Soon as I changed my stuff back I got one of the free ones for my phone ASAP. I will never again go without having an authenticator on my account. Good luck getting everything sorted out!


----------



## Sainesk

Is it true with the reset of MMR it's impossible to get placed higher than plat at the moment with placement matches in HOTS? I got placed in gold







but I have a little comfort that not even GMs/Masters are being thrown into Masters right away... +I figure with the recent changes to gold league (more silver and bronze players in it) should be pretty easy to work my way out...


----------



## TenaciousRig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Is it true with the reset of MMR it's impossible to get placed higher than plat at the moment with placement matches in HOTS?


Yep, have heard multiple streamers on twitch mention it.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

So whats hots like? I finishing wol 1st right now


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Still getting my ass handed to me. Need masters to teach me the right ways. I used to be that guy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


haha never thought I'll see the day








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Go play some KR ladder. You'll quickly learn what does and doesn't work. (that's my plan after I'm done with campaign)
> What are the vikings for?
> 
> A must watch game (Flash vs Life): http://www.twitch.tv/starcraft/b/376430397?t=1h34m
> And replays: http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/blog/2680614


they added global player in the last WoL patch. I tried KR and EU back then, guys were good lol. That Flash vs Life is pretty epic. MVP and Yoda owned at IEM as well


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm Protoss and the vikings are cause I hold best I can and get a colo or 2 asap while constanly being pressured. Its almost impossible to hold without AoE


Have you tried adding templars? This will allow you to get the splash damage without requiring your colossus to get too close. Try to keep the stalkers between the vikings and your colossus of course. I'm not a master player or anything, just what I've seen from the massive amount of matches I watch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> So whats hots like? I finishing wol 1st right now


I just beat WOL last night, so pretty close to the same boat as you. I completed the first introduction mission of HOTS last night and I'm loving how they picked up right where WOL ended. I'm excited to play it some more. Goal is to beat it this weekend.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

beat the whole game this weekend?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*


:'( me neither


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> beat the whole game this weekend?


I did, I basically just did the bare minimum of missions though. I had played the campaign previously but did lots of the side missions and didn't focus on the story. So this time I just focused on the story missions. With the exception of having to get 14 missions to continue that one time.


----------



## twerk

Does anyone have any advice on how to beat the last mission in under 25 minutes? I got every single normal difficulty achievement on my first play through apart from this one. I went back to get it and it took me over 30 minutes and I tried to be quick. I'm a gold ranked random player so it's a bit embarrassing that I can't get it


----------



## DoomDash

Man this game looks better than most on my 1440P IPS panel. The colors are amazing.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on how to beat the last mission in under 25 minutes? I got every single normal difficulty achievement on my first play through apart from this one. I went back to get it and it took me over 30 minutes and I tried to be quick. I'm a gold ranked random player so it's a bit embarrassing that I can't get it





Spoiler: One way to do it...



Mass ultralisks with Torrasque evolution+Tissue assim (they basically come close to unkillable on normal), Kerrigan alone is more than enough to take out any air units - crushing grip to disable them, kinetic blast to deal massive damage, mend to keep her alive and ability efficiency so you can do everything more often (twin drones + improved overlords passives help save a bunch of minerals for ultras too). If you can, get ground attack upgrades for the ultras at an evo chamber. Once you have max miners, turn two drones into two more hatcheries for extra larva (no queen inject in campaign







).

(I just have some mastery achievements left







).

edit: banelings instead of mend and drop pods had me at the end zone by 8-9 ish on normal. Swarmlings with the extra hatcheries give you the freedom to not even bother defending until your base is under attack.


----------



## Whalemeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on how to beat the last mission in under 25 minutes? I got every single normal difficulty achievement on my first play through apart from this one. I went back to get it and it took me over 30 minutes and I tried to be quick. I'm a gold ranked random player so it's a bit embarrassing that I can't get it


Finished every mission in brutal and played through master archive in normal to get all the achievements. It took me 22 minutes to end the last mission in normal. An hour for my first brutal try....









I think the crucial things are

1. Must have double drone upgrade and drop pod. Double drone is the best Kerrigan ability in this game IMO. Drop pod helps a lot to supplement your army early on.

2. Get the expansion site ASAP. In normal, it's not hard to secure that location with little defense. I think three or four hatcheries are enough for this mission.

3. Drone drone drone until full saturation. You don't need whole lot of army in normal to defend first few minutes.

4. Do the bonus objectives first. They didn't do a thing in brutal but they are really useful in normal.

5. Get whatever combo you like and push hard. I personally like roach lings and some hydras. With the economy you settled up, you'll be able to replenish your army very quickly. So just attack.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: One way to do it...
> 
> 
> 
> Mass ultralisks with Torrasque evolution+Tissue assim (they basically come close to unkillable on normal), Kerrigan alone is more than enough to take out any air units - crushing grip to disable them, kinetic blast to deal massive damage to them, mend to keep her alive and ability efficiency so you can do it more often. If you can, get ground attack upgrades for the ultras at an evo chamber. Once you have max miners, turn two drones into two more hatcheries for extra larva (no queen inject in campaign
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> (I just have some mastery achievements left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


Thanks a lot, I'll give it a try now








I've done pretty much all the hard achievements now, I've been putting this one off for some reason









EDIT: Thanks Whalemeal!


----------



## Whalemeal

Anybody did the "Psi-lence is Golden" achievement? I found it's almost impossible with my current strategy and I can't think of anything else.

Suib-12 minute in Harvest of Screams misson...and you waste first two minutes before the actual start. Any idea?


----------



## gunslinger0077

Hi everyone im looking for someone to do 2v2 ladder.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Do I have to enter my annoying password everytime????????????????????


----------



## poroboszcz

What the hell happened to HuK? This was painful to watch.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Do I have to enter my annoying password everytime????????????????????


Yep, may as well get used to it. Lol!

Also, wow at the people coming outta the woodworks since Hots!!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> :'( me neither


lol I know, what makes it even funnier XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> What the hell happened to HuK? This was painful to watch.


He screwed up the first game after taking a good lead. Game #2 was just plain bad. Can't say much for game #3 lol. The real story is Leenock using swarm hosts as well as he did







Rain vs. Seed was amazing to watch although game 2 was a roflstomp due to phoenix range


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> :'( me neither


lol I know, what makes it even funnier XD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> What the hell happened to HuK? This was painful to watch.


He screwed up the first game after taking a good lead. Game #2 was just plain bad. Can't say much for game #3 lol. The real story is Leenock using swarm hosts as well as he did







Rain vs. Seed was amazing to watch although game 2 was a roflstomp due to phoenix range


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Whalemeal*
> 
> Anybody did the "Psi-lence is Golden" achievement? I found it's almost impossible with my current strategy and I can't think of anything else.
> 
> Suib-12 minute in Harvest of Screams misson...and you waste first two minutes before the actual start. Any idea?


I just did it in 10:42(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-V-HpKkCUQ), but I did it through the master archives with a leveled kerrigan. It may or may not be possible if you do the mission earlier. Raptor lings are very helpful, just skip their units and go straight for the objective.


----------



## DoomDash

I won with a shredder contain into BC vs Protoss, and a proxy fact shredder kill as well. The proxy shredders were because he was a nexus first into cannon protoss. Worked really well.


----------



## Whalemeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I just did it in 10:42(will update w/ video when it's done encoding), but I did it through the master archives with a leveled kerrigan. It may or may not be possible if you do the mission earlier. Raptor lings are very helpful, just skip their units and go straight for the objective.


Yeah. I've done it in sub 10 min with master archive too. Didn't know that master archive gives you power lol. I guess it's pretty much impossible to do it without those improvements.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I won with a shredder contain into BC vs Protoss, and a proxy fact shredder kill as well. The proxy shredders were because he was a nexus first into cannon protoss. Worked really well.


shredder? you mean the widow mine? too bad they took out shredders, they were quite interesting imo


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Just finished Heart of the Swarm. Blizzard never fail to amaze me. Most game developer having a game like SC2 would focus in MP only. Blizzard in the other hand has made a SP game so strong its worth it alone. Money well spent.


----------



## XCII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunslinger0077*
> 
> Hi everyone im looking for someone to do 2v2 ladder.


I might could play if your on the US ladder.

TaeyeoN
#555


----------



## MKUL7R4

Anyone watching MLG?

Terran OP....there I said it.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Anyone watching MLG?
> 
> Terran OP....there I said it.


I'm not normally someone who calls things OP but in HoTS ZvP is broken, if it gets to the late game zerg cannot do a thing against protoss air.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> I'm not normally someone who calls things OP but in HoTS ZvP is broken, if it gets to the late game zerg cannot do a thing against protoss air.


I'm not nearly good enough at the game to call anything broken (plat solo), it just pains me to see fellow Zergs get obliterated by speed medivacs


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I'm not nearly good enough at the game to call anything broken (plat solo), it just pains me to see fellow Zergs get obliterated by speed medivacs


Their multi tasking will improve. Also i smell a void nerf unfortunately. Those corruptors try so hard. lol

I still think infestors is the answer but we will see.


----------



## poroboszcz

You mean foreign zergs getting obliterated by kespa terrans? Nothing to do with balance.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You mean foreign zergs getting obliterated by kespa terrans? Nothing to do with balance.


You're right, the game is 100% perfectly balanced already.


----------



## Sainesk

whatever happened to FruitDealer and NesTea and the like? I haven't been watching every match, has Leenock or MC played yet/how are they doing?

(a quick search says FruitDealer moved to LoL







, though I wish him the best of luck).


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Just finished Heart of the Swarm. Blizzard never fail to amaze me. Most game developer having a game like SC2 would focus in MP only. Blizzard in the other hand has made a SP game so strong its worth it alone. Money well spent.


I just completed the campaign as well. Amazing. My only complaint is when WOL ended I didn't know what to expect with HOTS. At the end of HOTS you know exactly what to expect in LOTV.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I just completed the campaign as well. Amazing. My only complaint is when WOL ended I didn't know what to expect with HOTS. At the end of HOTS you know exactly what to expect in LOTV.


I don't know. In WoL, there were choices to be made. Although I think my choice showed up in HotS from the Nova/Tosh dispute, I don't think there was any real choice in any matters. As far as I can tell from searches, there also is no secret level like the one in WoL. While the second one would have been a nice bonus, the choices missing from HotS felt like a loss.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I just completed the campaign as well. Amazing. My only complaint is when WOL ended I didn't know what to expect with HOTS. At the end of HOTS you know exactly what to expect in LOTV.


The sad part is whats going to happen after LOTV. At least we can look forward to LOTV. I think in the LOTV campaign you will fight to join all the protos forces and then in the end battle the common enmity joined by the swarn, terrans. Having a different ending that that will blow me away.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You mean foreign zergs getting obliterated by kespa terrans? Nothing to do with balance.


Foreign zergs can't keep up with kespa terrans, I agree with this comment lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> whatever happened to FruitDealer and NesTea and the like? I haven't been watching every match, has Leenock or MC played yet/how are they doing?
> 
> (a quick search says FruitDealer moved to LoL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , though I wish him the best of luck).





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Yes, he moved to LoL. Nestea is hanging around Code A I believe, think he lost his Up&Downs. Leenock lost his match against Innovation(Bogus in BW) 3-0. He was ripped apart by the multitasking. Go watch game 2 vods on MLG website, still one of the best games from MLG so far. MC played MVP and won 3-1 after doing a lot of aggressive timings.



The best Zerg atm is life although RorO won the last GSL and beat life in it(in the group) and Soulkey made RO8 then lost to Taeja with a close 3-2 series









Edit: Played my placement matches, won all five lol. Got placed in plat. I even won a late game TvZ that had infestors/BL although my opponent didn't exactly used them with synergy >.>


----------



## Mach 5

So I just finished the campaign.

I already want to play it again.


----------



## sepheroth003

The thing I hate about the campaign was I beat 90% of it with lyngs. Almost instant lyngs 3 at a time, and they run fast, amazing.


----------



## connectwise

Well lings are a girl's best friend.


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I just completed the campaign as well. Amazing. My only complaint is when WOL ended I didn't know what to expect with HOTS. At the end of HOTS you know exactly what to expect in LOTV.


I find it the opposite. WoL ending was clear on what will happen in HoTS. Zeratul explained it clearly during the standoff Sarah needed to lead the swarm (we just don't know in what form). While this one, there's little involvement of Zeratul or the Toss. Completely clueless on what'll happen on LoV but I know it'll be another epic campaign. Too bad the next part will be in a few years. Hopefully its not gonna be another 3 year wait.


----------



## Sainesk

MC vs Bomber live now, this is gonna be so epic...

edit: lol bnet/network problems, weneedLAN







but first game so far is


----------



## Cmdr.Shephard

Quick question:

Will I see more units on a 1440p screen then the 1080p ?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cmdr.Shephard*
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> Will I see more units on a 1440p screen then the 1080p ?


no, because of the "fog of war", you'll just see everything bigger (+it would be an unfair advantage).

about that MC vs Bomber after match interview, almost cried from laughing too much:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler of who won!



interviewer: all we're hearing is Terran OP TerranTerranTerran, how come you're doing so well as protoss?
MC: because other toss players are still playing like it's WOL, i'm playing HOTS

interviewer: who would you like to face next?
MC: doesn't matter if they're Terran

lol, and hilarious how hard he's shutting down medivac play and such. Life vs MC live now! poor Life, announcer announced Bomber before he came on stage


----------



## MKUL7R4

GOGO LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

new favorite pro player.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> GOGO LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> new favorite pro player.


Awesome win by Life.

But I don't get it, why didn't Flash use any tanks? Wouldn't they have made his base defense more effective?


----------



## DoomDash

Aww I missed all of it. Any recommend matches for learning HotS Terrans?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Pretty much all of the Zergs got wiped by Terrans in the earlier rounds. If you want to learn TvZ watch some of those. Most of the wins focused on double and triple dropping with speedivacs


----------



## DoomDash

Dirty speedvacs. I hope they get nerfed they seem stupid OP. I had my standard turret walls up in TvT and in places where medivacs used to never get in they got in...

Honestly my TvZ so far is like 90% and I haven't used medivacs yet.

Also I've been thinking of not only putting my sights on getting back into Masters, but taking that next step and getting Grand Masters. I will have to re-evaluate my style or training process and overcome all the things I lacked in the past.


----------



## Anti!!

I just had time to sit down and beat the campaign tonight. Fun stuff blizzard.

Now, toward my road to masters in HoTz.

May need to hit you up doomdash.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> The thing I hate about the campaign was I beat 90% of it with lyngs. Almost instant lyngs 3 at a time, and they run fast, amazing.


So true... ling - bane - victory.... repeat.


----------



## jellybeans69

Life zerg games were epic and that 6 pool was awesome









Can't decide to get SC2 + hots or not now feel inspired but i'd still be bronze crap tier







I'd like to play Zerg but it seems hard nowadays

Anyone playing on EU willing to give some pointers?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Life zerg games were epic and that 6 pool was awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't decide to get SC2 + hots or not now feel inspired but i'd still be bronze crap tier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to play Zerg but it seems hard nowadays
> 
> Anyone playing on EU willing to give some pointers?


Everyone can play on EU. So, its who ever wants too.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Life zerg games were epic and that 6 pool was awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't decide to get SC2 + hots or not now feel inspired but i'd still be bronze crap tier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to play Zerg but it seems hard nowadays
> 
> Anyone playing on EU willing to give some pointers?


I'm in the same situation. I am so bad now I'm not sure I want to play ladder. That's why I quit playing in the first place, I don't think I'll ever be amazing. I couldn't get out of platinum after sc2 was released. I'd be lucky to be gold now probably.


----------



## jellybeans69

I'll prolly still get it, been kind of bored of Dota 2 recently and play at least until Company of Heroes 2 come out.


----------



## Anti!!

Guys. The point of the ladder placement system was to be able to enjoy playing against people of your own skill level. In the old day we had to play people on sc1 and have no clue how good they were. All we could tell was their win loss ratio, which could be padded in either direction. So, I guess what im getting at is if you max out at your skill temporarily just try to have fun where you are at. If you lose oh well. You will notice you are more relaxed and in turn you play better. I have friends that are silver and hate working to hard to play better so they just have fun! They brag about their fun games.

The times I have had the most fun is when I dont care Bout wins or losses. If I lose I gg as quick as possible and requeue. Moving on is the biggest help.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Guys. The point of the ladder placement system was to be able to enjoy playing against people of your own skill level. In the old day we had to play people on sc1 and have no clue how good they were. All we could tell was their win loss ratio, which could be padded in either direction. So, I guess what im getting at is if you max out at your skill temporarily just try to have fun where you are at. If you lose oh well. You will notice you are more relaxed and in turn you play better. I have friends that are silver and hate working to hard to play better so they just have fun! They brag about their fun games.
> 
> The times I have had the most fun is when I dont care Bout wins or losses. If I lose I gg as quick as possible and requeue. Moving on is the biggest help.


I get my fun from win's in almost any game i play. Essentially i play to win. Being in bronzeshtier was just a sarcasm, i know i'll get better eventually.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I get my fun from win's in almost any game i play. Essentially i play to win. Being in bronzeshtier was just a sarcasm, i know i'll get better eventually.


Winning is the most fun I will admit but you cant always win. My point is I wouldnt let it make me quit and sap all of the fun away from me to the point I quit.


----------



## Tarnix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Life zerg games were epic and that 6 pool was awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can't decide to get SC2 + hots or not now feel inspired but i'd still be bronze crap tier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to play Zerg but it seems hard nowadays*
> 
> Anyone playing on EU willing to give some pointers?


Aha, same situation here. I really like Zerg, but I'm terrible at most planning and reflex-demanding games...


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarnix*
> 
> Aha, same situation here. I really like Zerg, but I'm terrible at most planning and reflex-demanding games...


Just went ahead with that and bought it , just wished speed would be more stable


Drops down to 500 kb/s at times while i can dl from origin with stable 10mb/s


----------



## Sainesk

This really is one of those games where you learn more by losing usually. The other day I played close to perfectly vs my bro (me random Z vs him P). I was up a base, denied an early zealots push with crawlers and queens and worker micro (losing none) then warpgate timing push losing no workers queens, maybe a ling or two. Did some beautiful fungals on a warp prism and a bunch of zealots trying to get into my main again losing nothing, then he got a bunch of dts and target fired my queens (I had spores and spines) but I was silly and didn't save/run away my queens and the lack of inject/larva allowed him to get an army size advantadge and take the game.

Had I won I probably would have just thought how awesome I played rather than wow, I need spare safety queens or dont let the ones I have die even if I think i've already won.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> This really is one of those games where you learn more by losing usually. The other day I played close to perfectly vs my bro (me random Z vs him P). I was up a base, denied an early zealots push with crawlers and queens and worker micro (losing none) then warpgate timing push losing no workers queens, maybe a ling or two. Did some beautiful fungals on a warp prism and a bunch of zealots trying to get into my main again losing nothing, then he got a bunch of dts and target fired my queens (I had spores and spines) but I was silly and didn't save/run away my queens and the lack of inject/larva allowed him to get an army size advantadge and take the game.
> 
> Had I won I probably would have just thought how awesome I played rather than wow, I need spare safety queens or dont let the ones I have die even if I think i've already won.


Reminded me of one saying we use here:

Smart people learn from their mistakes
But even smarter people learn from other people mistakes


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I'm in the same situation. I am so bad now I'm not sure I want to play ladder. That's why I quit playing in the first place, I don't think I'll ever be amazing. I couldn't get out of platinum after sc2 was released. I'd be lucky to be gold now probably.


As a totally average player (plat solo), I can attest that it is still fun. I've been playing Blizzard RTS since I started messing around with Warcraft 1 as a kid (had no idea what I was doing until I was older and played Warcraft 2/C&C). I should be WAY better than I am. I simply don't invest enough time into studying the metagame and build orders, I just play casually.

As much as I'd love to, I've realized a long time ago that I'll never be a pro gamer. video games are meant to be fun, and if you're doing that you're still "winning" even against a grumpy, snobby masters player who cries and rages every time he loses.


----------



## jellybeans69

Feel free to add me - EU - JellySmelleh
Did my promo matches and now in Silver (lol i don't remember what half of buildings even do) i'm bronze scum tho 2l 3w during placement matches one was terribly easy one other one where it was ZvZ and i won was pretty hard match and my micro sux


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> As a totally average player (plat solo), I can attest that it is still fun. I've been playing Blizzard RTS since I started messing around with Warcraft 1 as a kid (had no idea what I was doing until I was older and played Warcraft 2/C&C). I should be WAY better than I am. I simply don't invest enough time into studying the metagame and build orders, I just play casually.
> 
> As much as I'd love to, I've realized a long time ago that I'll never be a pro gamer. video games are meant to be fun, and if you're doing that you're still "winning" even against a grumpy, snobby masters player who cries and rages every time he loses.


This. Waaaaaayyyyy this. I guezs it comes with age. Lol


----------



## DoomDash

Being old and responsible sucks







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Being old and responsible sucks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


yea. no kidding.. lol


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Being old and responsible sucks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


yeah, tell me about it. just got my first full time job (Kohl's Corporate in Menomonee Falls). all my free time has disappeared.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> yeah, tell me about it. just got my first full time job (Kohl's Corporate in Menomonee Falls). all my free time has disappeared.


+1. Don't even have time for longer post, bye


----------



## jellybeans69

Lol, i know the feel. Have only 2-3h to play on weekdays and little bit more on weekends myself











Korea GM doesn't look like zergs are doin too bad


----------



## sepheroth003

Well I may try ladder again, this game is just amazingly fun. I've watched 14 Day[9] newbie Tuesdays so far. Plan on watching more the rest of the day until I have to go to the gym. (I get paid to workout during the week, so better take advantage of it).


----------



## redxmaverick

I'm a casual SC2 player. I mainly just play the custom games that people develop. When I do play ladder, its 3v3 or 4v4 for fun. I just like seeing huge armies going at each other. That's why I like Desert Strike so much.

I've always been a fighting game fanatic and love watching high level play. To a new person, they may only see 2 people just mashing buttons until on wins. But when top players watch and break down their footage, its a whole new experience, a whole new level of learning. Because of this, I never thought I'd say this, but just recently, I find myself enjoying watching SC2 pro players. Hearing and seeing the commentators point out all the intricacies is quite interesting.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Kerrigan DATASS


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> +1. Don't even have time for longer post, bye


Hahaha! Good one


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redxmaverick*
> 
> I'm a casual SC2 player. I mainly just play the custom games that people develop. When I do play ladder, its 3v3 or 4v4 for fun. I just like seeing huge armies going at each other. That's why I like Desert Strike so much.


my favorite arcade game







just so aggravating when someone doesn't get their preferred 'mode' and quits. ugh


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Well I may try ladder again, this game is just amazingly fun. I've watched 14 Day[9] newbie Tuesdays so far. Plan on watching more the rest of the day until I have to go to the gym. (*I get paid to workout during the week*, so better take advantage of it).


wow, by your workplace? I reckon that's smart (healthier workers = more efficient/reliable), motivating (get paid for doing it), and hope one day i'll work in a place like that. I think team EG focuses a lot on their physical health because you can't have as good mental health without it, would love to know more about other starcraft teams and their fitness routines (if any).



Spoiler: EG Bench Pressing


----------



## DoomDash

Back to getting served in Diamond. I would have thought masters would have been much easier to get into again, but I think I may be wrong.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Back to getting served in Diamond. I would have thought masters would have been much easier to get into again, but I think I may be wrong.


The skill level has improved immensely since SCII was released since HoTS is merely an expansion so just some new units. I got served just the other day in plat lol. Opponent's mech army was sieged outside my base and it caught me off guard since I scanned his base to see nothing then ran into it as I went down my ramp >< lol.


----------



## jellybeans69

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/379756966

Recording from when i played yesterday some silver league games as i said haven't played any rts'es in ages. Starts at around ~3mins


----------



## Shadeh

I'm nearly platnium in hots. (Rank 1 gold). I always though you have to be a real freak to achieve this. But all you have to do is play 3-4 games..everyday. When I really have no time I just play one. As terran having a constant scv queue is a must. I love the new terran hots. Can choose to go reaper , banshee or widow mine drops. Or early siege tank and banshee. Very fun game. Wish I had given this game a chance earlier :-D


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> wow, by your workplace? I reckon that's smart (healthier workers = more efficient/reliable), motivating (get paid for doing it), and hope one day i'll work in a place like that. I think team EG focuses a lot on their physical health because you can't have as good mental health without it, would love to know more about other starcraft teams and their fitness routines (if any).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: EG Bench Pressing


I'm a federal technician for the military. I have fitness tests I have to pass every year, so I have to stay somewhat in shape. Beer keeps getting in my way.

That's cool that pro teams do that. I think it's important as well.


----------



## poroboszcz

This doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot, but anyone else noticed improvements to the AI? It's somewhat useful now for practicing new builds if you don't have a partner.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> This doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot, but anyone else noticed improvements to the AI? It's somewhat useful now for practicing new builds if you don't have a partner.


Just do unranked if you want to practice new builds.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> This doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot, but anyone else noticed improvements to the AI? It's somewhat useful now for practicing new builds if you don't have a partner.


Ya that is really cool how they added different tactics. I haven't tried past a hard computer since coming back yet, but then again I haven't lost yet lol.

I'm watching the Day9 king of the beta tournament right now. First two games between WhiteRa and ROOTCatZ was pretty awesome.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Just do unranked if you want to practice new builds.


Unranked doesn't allow me to chose map and matchup or opponents build.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> This doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot, but anyone else noticed improvements to the AI? It's somewhat useful now for practicing new builds if you don't have a partner.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I never play AI, but that's pretty awesome actually. Especially if they keep it updated to current metagame trends.


----------



## squall325

I suck at this game so much lol. Lost all placement matches and got thrown to bronze. :|
anyone here I could train with and help me point out my weaknesses? Im Jaze.736 on NA.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> This doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot, but anyone else noticed improvements to the AI? It's somewhat useful now for practicing new builds if you don't have a partner.


ya, you can even give them commands in a 2v2 etc... they demonstrated the improved AI on launch day in South Korea


----------



## VaiFanatic

I've been playing horribly as well. Also thrown into Bronze. Oh well!


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, anyone have any idea why can't I play offline? I moved to a new place and still don't have internet. SC2 starts fine in offline mode but then when I try to play vs AI it says "Some players in your party don't have permission to access this" or some such crap. Got a clue how to fix this offline?


----------



## jellybeans69

Lol , had a 42m match (silver l) yesterday ZvZ lost but guy didn't believe i've been playing only for 2days


----------



## Ergates

Had a smack-talker yesterday, telling me how he just used this account for practising build orders, and that I should make sure and save the replay to learn from his build (I save them all, and I try to learn from most). He did do some pretty good harassment, at least on a low skill player like me,.

I took him at face value, just thinking to myself "well, you're going to have to work for it because I'm not just rolling over". The funny bit was that he told me "well it's time to gg now, I rebuilt my army and almost have 3/3". I'd just expanded to my fourth and built another 8 rax. About five minutes later he just rage quit after I trashed his third twice.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, anyone have any idea why can't I play offline? I moved to a new place and still don't have internet. SC2 starts fine in offline mode but then when I try to play vs AI it says "Some players in your party don't have permission to access this" or some such crap. Got a clue how to fix this offline?


Have you tried different maps? When I launch a custom game I swear it always does the streaming thing at the top, which makes me think its using the internet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Had a smack-talker yesterday, telling me how he just used this account for practising build orders, and that I should make sure and save the replay to learn from his build (I save them all, and I try to learn from most). He did do some pretty good harassment, at least on a low skill player like me,.
> 
> I took him at face value, just thinking to myself "well, you're going to have to work for it because I'm not just rolling over". The funny bit was that he told me "well it's time to gg now, I rebuilt my army and almost have 3/3". I'd just expanded to my fourth and built another 8 rax. About five minutes later he just rage quit after I trashed his third twice.


That's pretty funny. People who talk trash are usually the bad ones. That's why my two favorite players right now are WhiteRa and Polt, very humble cool guys that happen to be extremely good as well.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Have you tried different maps?


Yeah, I can't play on any map..


----------



## Ergates

WOOP WOOP!!! Promotion to silver league. I'm so chuffed!!!!! Yeah, I know I suck compared to most of you, but hey, I'm new and it's hella fun.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Had a smack-talker yesterday, telling me how he just used this account for practising build orders, and that I should make sure and save the replay to learn from his build (I save them all, and I try to learn from most). He did do some pretty good harassment, at least on a low skill player like me,.
> 
> I took him at face value, just thinking to myself "well, you're going to have to work for it because I'm not just rolling over". The funny bit was that he told me "well it's time to gg now, I rebuilt my army and almost have 3/3". I'd just expanded to my fourth and built another 8 rax. About five minutes later he just rage quit after I trashed his third twice.


This is bar none the most satisfying scenario while playing multiplayer. D-bag thinks he has you beat, talks trash, you proceed to comeback and stomp him.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> WOOP WOOP!!! Promotion to silver league. I'm so chuffed!!!!! Yeah, I know I suck compared to most of you, but hey, I'm new and it's hella fun.


Congrats! you gotta start somewhere man.


----------



## Ergates

Thanks!! A big up to filtersc's tutorials on YouTube - they are the main reason I've been able to win any games at all. Today I figured that my 50SCVs at 10mins just wasn't happening, and that I should focus on fixing that, and that alone until I could do it most games. That's what made the difference today.


----------



## Shadeh

What do you mean? You were trying to have 50, scvs by the ten minute mark? As a terrain you don't really have to worry about that, make sure to descent your expansion and make sure to always queue up an scv every 17 seconds :-D. At least that's how I roll


----------



## sepheroth003

Only 3 of us in the OCN group online. Need moar people. I'm getting bored playing against AI.

/edit Well there it is, finally got some time to play. Harder computers are incredibly easy, and very hard computer I couldnt beat two games in a row.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> What do you mean? You were trying to have 50, scvs by the ten minute mark? As a terrain you don't really have to worry about that, make sure to descent your expansion and make sure to always queue up an scv every 17 seconds :-D. At least that's how I roll


I'm following filtersc's tutorials on YouTube. With a 1 rax FE, you're supposed to have 50 SCVs out by ten minutes. I'm struggling a little with this, and the best I've done so far is 48, more commonly around the 44 mark. Watching replays, the main cause of my failure is usually me letting myself get supply blocked, but every now and then there are a couple of seconds where I fail to queue up an SCV.

I guess that's pretty much the same thing as your approach.


----------



## jellybeans69

Dayum i love swarmhosts so good against toss


----------



## squall325

I have a question since the benchmarks I found so far were conflicting. Can a 7770 or GTX650 (non-TI) run SC2 at Extreme preset with AA @ 1080p at a decent fps? I'm planning on downgrading my card from 7970 to either since I wont be having time to play other games starting next month until God knows when. Anyone have experiences with those cards and SC2?


----------



## CravinR1

In Hots on one of the campaign my 5870 slowed foe a few seconds at 1080p


----------



## squall325

well I think I should still downgrade if I can't use anymore my 7970 at its max. I can just change some settings if its laggy.


----------



## jellybeans69

Get 7790 instead if you want something from mid-range.


----------



## squall325

sadly it's still not yet out in the Philippines. :/


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> sadly it's still not yet out in the Philippines. :/


It should very soon.


----------



## Sainesk

I still think a 7850 is the best bang for buck (especially if you consider the "free" games it comes with), 7790 and 7770 need to be slightly cheaper in my opinion to be worth considering (or at least come with the same games).

With AA i'm not sure, but without it campaign should work nicely on extreme (though at least 2 HOTS missions felt like benchmark tests - over 400 supply of units at least... they should be bearable), and 1v1 bearable/micro-able most of the time. 4v4 I highly doubt it - not because of the GPU, but because of how CPU intensive the game can get, and when there's say 4 players going mass marines versus 4 with mass lings even the best CPU's limits start to show (captain obvious







).

If you really can't stretch to a 7850, the 7770 is slightly better than a non-Ti GTX 650 for starcraft.

Personally, I usually run matchmaking on low like some of the pros, because I find all the shiny effects and explosions and everything can be distracting/make it harder to spot/see stuff.


----------



## jellybeans69

Silver League, currently in top 8 of my league , i've been playing only for four days swarmhosts+hydras does wonders , except boring muta ball fights in zvz


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I still think a 7850 is the best bang for buck (especially if you consider the "free" games it comes with), 7790 and 7770 need to be slightly cheaper in my opinion to be worth considering (or at least come with the same games).
> 
> With AA i'm not sure, but without it campaign should work nicely on extreme (though at least 2 HOTS missions felt like benchmark tests - over 400 supply of units at least... they should be bearable), and 1v1 bearable/micro-able most of the time.
> 4v4 I highly doubt it - not because of the GPU, but because of how CPU intensive the game can get, and when there's say 4 players going mass marines versus 4 with mass lings even the best CPU's limits start to show (captain obvious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Personally, I usually run matchmaking on low like some of the pros, because I find all the shiny effects and explosions and everything can be distracting/make it harder to spot/see stuff.


good point. Im done with the campaign. I'm just gonna do ladder and custom game with friends. I should learn how to play without the eye candy. I'm a graphics freak. :|


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> I have a question since the benchmarks I found so far were conflicting. Can a 7770 or GTX650 (non-TI) run SC2 at Extreme preset with AA @ 1080p at a decent fps? I'm planning on downgrading my card from 7970 to either since I wont be having time to play other games starting next month until God knows when. Anyone have experiences with those cards and SC2?


I can play the campaign on max with a GTX 480. I only get FPS drops on the highest graphics settings in 4v4s

But like Sainesk said, I run lower graphics for multiplayer as well. Less distractions and not even a remote chance of slowdown.

would you guys say these settings are optimal for minimizing visual clutter?

Textures: Ultra
Shaders: Medium
Lighting: Low
Shadows: Medium
Terrain: Low
Reflections: Off
Effects: Ultra
Post-Processing: Low
Physics: Off
Models: High
Unit Portraits: 2D


----------



## DoomDash

I've been practicing the heck out of mech in HotS. My TvZ mech is pretty successful, like it was in WoL, my TvT mech is mixed but I think I can make it strong, and my TvP mech sometimes works but seems to be the most difficult. I find Protoss to be nearlry unpredictable unless you get lucky enough to scout or scan the right tech, and even the late game is hard to figure out which comp will work best.


----------



## SeD669

Hey guys I'm having trouble with a mission in HoTS... "The Crucible". I haven't played Zerg before, other than this new campaign and I'm having a little trouble finishing the mission on hard lol. A bit embarrassing. I do fine until the last 2 or so minutes.. I cant hold off the final assault so I'm not doing something right. If anyone can help me (or even send me a replay) I would greatly appreciate it








cheers


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I've been practicing the heck out of mech in HotS. My TvZ mech is pretty successful, like it was in WoL, my TvT mech is mixed but I think I can make it strong, and my TvP mech sometimes works but seems to be the most difficult. I find Protoss to be nearlry unpredictable unless you get lucky enough to scout or scan the right tech, and even the late game is hard to figure out which comp will work best.


Mech gets owned by Vipers though


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Mech gets owned by Vipers though


not if you have 27 Thors







thats my army i just produce in matchmaking vs very hard an army of thors and then send them against enemy
before that they are defending behind houses used as blocking. against protoss i have no chance unfortunately ... terran if they build 10 medivacs and cover the infantry with 10 tanks in siege mode either ...

but through zergs i go like through butter. weaken them till i have 27-28 thors and then i march toward their base
i found first time about thors when 2 my buddies fought me and ai. they went with 25+ BC each against mine 25mechs and when all was said and done all my thors were dead but 10 BC were left. thats like 80% loss of 50BC vs 25thors. well javelin missiles with splash damage







since then they do avoid building only BC fleets

but protoss are unbelievable ...

best
revro


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I've been practicing the heck out of mech in HotS. My TvZ mech is pretty successful, like it was in WoL, my TvT mech is mixed but I think I can make it strong, and my TvP mech sometimes works but seems to be the most difficult. I find Protoss to be nearlry unpredictable unless you get lucky enough to scout or scan the right tech, and even the late game is hard to figure out which comp will work best.


What's your rank? I had someone trying to go Thor vs me (tvt) he managed to mass them but nicely spreading my tanks and my easily replaceable bio balls (10 tax), with constant harassment did the job


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> not if you have 27 Thors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats my army i just produce in matchmaking vs very hard an army of thors and then send them against enemy
> before that they are defending behind houses used as blocking. against protoss i have no chance unfortunately ... terran if they build 10 medivacs and cover the infantry with 10 tanks in siege mode either ...
> 
> but through zergs i go like through butter. weaken them till i have 27-28 thors and then i march toward their base
> i found first time about thors when 2 my buddies fought me and ai. they went with 25+ BC each against mine 25mechs and when all was said and done all my thors were dead but 10 BC were left. thats like 80% loss of 50BC vs 25thors. well javelin missiles with splash damage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since then they do avoid building only BC fleets
> 
> but protoss are unbelievable ...
> 
> best
> revro


Toss are easy as Zerg at least in silver (sarcasm lol, but by looks SH's are doing great against toss in higher leagues too) swarmhosts + hydra support with overlord + queen spreading creep near his expansion and nothing he can really do.

Ultras + vipers should own your Tor army (how fast do you push in?) No decent zerg will let you expand 4 free to get enough minerals/gas to build such army


----------



## revro

i build only thors so all i need are 2 mining operations







3 if i want to mine while i am on to enemys basis.
3-5 thors in beginning and 1v1 enemies initial attacks cant match thors high hp and once i get 7-10 i am safe in my base and am producing 2-3 thors every production cycle. but when i am faced with protoss i dont stand a chance as their shields protect them too much ...

maybe to start guarding my front outpost base i should use with nukes to fend them off









ai usually just has 2 vipers to snatch 2 of my thors into his swarm of attackers, but with 25 thors barraging they either die or swarm retreats. you know how ai is. it isnt playing till last unit like we players tend to, it tends to run away.

best
revro


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> i build only thors so all i need are 2 mining operations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 if i want to mine while i am on to enemys basis.
> 3-5 thors in beginning and 1v1 enemies initial attacks cant match thors high hp and once i get 7-10 i am safe in my base and am producing 2-3 thors every production cycle. but when i am faced with protoss i dont stand a chance as their shields protect them too much ...
> 
> maybe to start guarding my front outpost base i should use with nukes to fend them off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best
> revro


----------



## CravinR1

Try that 25 Thor tactic on ladder and let us know how that works out for you


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Try that 25 Thor tactic on ladder and let us know how that works out for you


Doubt you'll be able to even make 10 with all the constant harrassing


----------



## Mach 5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Hey guys I'm having trouble with a mission in HoTS... "The Crucible". I haven't played Zerg before, other than this new campaign and I'm having a little trouble finishing the mission on hard lol. A bit embarrassing. I do fine until the last 2 or so minutes.. I cant hold off the final assault so I'm not doing something right. If anyone can help me (or even send me a replay) I would greatly appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers


If this is the mission im thinking off (defend the chrysalis?)

Take the expansion on the right side as quickly as possible, you should be able to defend it with a few spine and spore crawlers, no need to move your army to defend it.

If you are trying to do it with swarm hosts, I wouldnt bother, just go roach/ hydra. I found it easier to just sit in the middle around kerrigan with my army, you can defend all 3 angles quite well. Spread creep around the edges of the pond and throw down spines at the ramps and a few spores on the right cliff side.


----------



## Ergates

Been hovering between 4-15 in silver after Friday's promotion from bronze. Things got a whole bunch harder since that promotion, yikes!!

Still, when I occasionally win, it's twice as satisfying!! I'm getting slightly better at constant production and not getting supply blocked, too.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Been hovering between 4-15 in silver after Friday's promotion from bronze. Things got a whole bunch harder since that promotion, yikes!!
> 
> Still, when I occasionally win, it's twice as satisfying!! I'm getting slightly better at constant production and not getting supply blocked, too.


I've been stuck in Platinum since Wings of Liberty :/


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mach 5*
> 
> If this is the mission im thinking off (defend the chrysalis?)
> 
> Take the expansion on the right side as quickly as possible, you should be able to defend it with a few spine and spore crawlers, no need to move your army to defend it.
> 
> If you are trying to do it with swarm hosts, I wouldnt bother, just go roach/ hydra. I found it easier to just sit in the middle around kerrigan with my army, you can defend all 3 angles quite well. Spread creep around the edges of the pond and throw down spines at the ramps and a few spores on the right cliff side.


I had maxxed speedlings with about 12 or so swarm hosts

since I get my lings back every few seconds they are throw away units that will do a lot of damage in numbers


----------



## Sainesk

anyone know a good place for HOTS build orders, i'm not sure if Liquipedia (one general build for TvT...







) and the ones I used to use are up to date...


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> anyone know a good place for HOTS build orders, i'm not sure if Liquipedia (one general build for TvT...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and the ones I used to use are up to date...


TL sc2 strategy forums is good place to start your search.
There should also be HOTS terran replay pack.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I've been stuck in Platinum since Wings of Liberty :/


Hey you messaged me on SC2 about playing some 1v1s sometime under the username nagenta.. I would be up for that







Add me on skype sometime and we can work out a time to sit down and crank some out haha.

My skype is "lapengu" or [email protected]


----------



## DoomDash

I love battle hellions and widow mines!!! Seriously awesome!!

I'm making it my goal to be in masters by seasons end. Season ends 5/1/2013.


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Originally Posted by SeD669 View Post
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys I'm having trouble with a mission in HoTS... "The Crucible". I haven't played Zerg before, other than this new campaign and I'm having a little trouble finishing the mission on hard lol. A bit embarrassing. I do fine until the last 2 or so minutes.. I cant hold off the final assault so I'm not doing something right. If anyone can help me (or even send me a replay) I would greatly appreciate it biggrin.gif
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> If this is the mission im thinking off (defend the chrysalis?)
> 
> Take the expansion on the right side as quickly as possible, you should be able to defend it with a few spine and spore crawlers, no need to move your army to defend it.
> 
> If you are trying to do it with swarm hosts, I wouldnt bother, just go roach/ hydra. I found it easier to just sit in the middle around kerrigan with my army, you can defend all 3 angles quite well. Spread creep around the edges of the pond and throw down spines at the ramps and a few spores on the right cliff side.
Click to expand...

That's the one







. Thanks heaps for that. I had the thought of going hydra + muta in the middle around the crystalis but I thought that would be harder with both armies hitting me in the one spot. Also I just assumed if I expand that's 3 points I have to defend so I never even tried







. I'll try roach hydra on two hives and see how that goes


----------



## BigFan

Only played like 3 campaign missions lol, too busy ><
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I love battle hellions and widow mines!!! Seriously awesome!!
> 
> I'm making it my goal to be in masters by seasons end. Season ends 5/1/2013.


widow mines are great especially with their radius and splash. They even work really well against protoss lol(aren't used much in TvP). I dunno about battle hellions, boring unit >.>


----------



## Costfree

What exactly is macroing?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costfree*
> 
> What exactly is macroing?


Building stuff. Lots of stuff, upgraded stuff.

In my eyes, it's learning how to build your economy whilst being safe. But this is very defensively. The reason that macro is so important in the lower levels is that if you build enough stuff faster than your opponent, no attack of his should be able to hurt you.

When you get better/bored of defending, it is better to learn a (series of) timings so that you attack your opponent at a certain time (with good macro!!). This is to prevent greed/eco-cheese. Also learning how to punish opponents becomes vital skills.

For example if your opponent gets supply blocked and you do not punish him for this, he might be able to greed himself into the lead. You shouldn't allow him to do that.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Only played like 3 campaign missions lol, too busy ><
> widow mines are great especially with their radius and splash. They even work really well against protoss lol(aren't used much in TvP). I dunno about battle hellions, boring unit >.>


They're used quite a lot in TvP by Koreans. Reactored rax FE into widow mines is kind of a standard opening at the moment. Widow mines keep you safe from gateway all-ins and allow you to harass with drops early. Battle hellions used to be good in the beta, don't see them now too often.


----------



## Alex132

cant even be bothered to get back into diamond


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> They're used quite a lot in TvP by Koreans. Reactored rax FE into widow mines is kind of a standard opening at the moment. Widow mines keep you safe from gateway all-ins and allow you to harass with drops early. Battle hellions used to be good in the beta, don't see them now too often.


They are still crazy good.


----------



## DoomDash

Floating on TvZ much?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> Floating on TvZ much?


Grrrr...

You still diamond?


----------



## DoomDash

Yes for now. I think once I figure out the holes in my mech vs T and P I will be in masters soon after.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes for now. I think once I figure out the holes in my mech vs T and P I will be in masters soon after.


I need more time... It is really hampering my progress. I had got to top diamond last season but here I am.


----------



## Costfree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Building stuff. Lots of stuff, upgraded stuff.
> 
> In my eyes, it's learning how to build your economy whilst being safe. But this is very defensively. The reason that macro is so important in the lower levels is that if you build enough stuff faster than your opponent, no attack of his should be able to hurt you.
> 
> When you get better/bored of defending, it is better to learn a (series of) timings so that you attack your opponent at a certain time (with good macro!!). This is to prevent greed/eco-cheese. Also learning how to punish opponents becomes vital skills.
> 
> For example if your opponent gets supply blocked and you do not punish him for this, he might be able to greed himself into the lead. You shouldn't allow him to do that.


Ooh thanks for all that insight.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I need more time... It is really hampering my progress. I had got to top diamond last season but here I am.


I don't have much time but I try and make time anyway. Nearly in the top 8 of my Diamond division, I'm getting closer to my first goal.

ARG TVP and TVT!!!


----------



## ronnin426850

Yesterday I played my first game in 3 months, against an AI on Harder, because I have no internet at home yet. Oh what a sweet feeling, it's all coming back to me


----------



## Costfree

seems like everyone likes to use Terran!! where the Protoss players at?!?







Anyways i've been working my way up Silver currently in the top 8 trying to make my way out!


----------



## ronnin426850

Remember my words of a few months ago when I said HotS will be terran's game?







Noone believed back then, ah..


----------



## revro

hi my WoL will be delivered next week, but i will get HoS tomorrow. can i upgrade the starter edition with HoS and then with WoL or do i have to wait for WoL?

thank you
revro


----------



## Ergates

Wooo hooo! Finally managed 52 SCVs twice at 10 minutes. Only in practice games vs easy AI, not a real game yet. I'm chuffed, that's a substantial improvement over my previous best.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Remember my words of a few months ago when I said HotS will be terran's game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noone believed back then, ah..


It's to early to tell that.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know if its a bit of a luck streak, but I'm on fire. If I can keep this up I will be in masters very soon:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ladder/141102#current-rank

I remember back when I got 13 streaks playing on a friends Diamond account all the way till masters..... :'(


----------



## Costfree

Are there any protoss players that stream and give explainations while streaming?!


----------



## poroboszcz

Artosis. He'll teach you strong a-moving skills.

More seriously have a look at dApollo tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGC4nfM56Q


----------



## MKUL7R4

Anyone here use custom hotkey setups? Was looking at The Core but that seems completely unnecessary for me. To be honest I don't even use camera locations, I'm not that good. I just made my own Zerg hotkey setup which basically tries to only use the keys 1-4, Q-R, A-F, and Z-V. All special unit abilities are on F/D/R and all building upgrades are Q/W/E. Not sure if this is a good idea (Will test it tonight) but it seems like it will make everything much more intuitive, and I'll never have to reach over to U for Ultras or P for Patrol.


----------



## 1Kaz

I use the core, or actually, a variation of the core. I was already masters when I made the switch, and it took me over 200 games to get used to the change. Muscle memory and habits are really hard to change. It was still worth it.

The stock SC2 keybinds aren't very good, but you could still go pro on the stock settings. One thing I would say is, don't count yourself out and leave out keybind options that will be helpful in the future.

Before I used the core, I basically overlapped 6-0 by holding ctrl and hitting 1-5. I used to set all my hotkeys with shift 1-0, and the higher numbers (6-0) were used for buildings, so I wasn't adding to them that often.. Initially I thought the system was great, but the trade off was losing the ability to add individual units/structures to control groups. Instead I had to select the control group first, hold shift and add the additional ones, then hit the number again to rebind. It wasn't until I changed things up that I realized all my eggs (as zerg), should be added to a control group while still in production. I lost that functionality with my custom hotkeys.

While you may not use camera locations now, there comes a time when they are useful and should be included in your game.

Terran can make use of camera locations with different bases, as well as their various walls. Set a camera location to your rally point, then move A move reinforcements across the map. This prevents units getting misrallied, or getting picked off walking to a rally point.

Protoss can use camera locations for additional bases, and for groups of buildings they want to chrono, such as forges or gateways. Another camera location can be used at forward pylons to make it easy to warp in additional units.

Zerg can use camera hotkeys for injecting. Camera locations drastically lower reaction time when dealing with drops.

While these things may not seem very important right now, it takes a while to build muscle memory, and an even longer time to change it. If your going to change your hotkeys (I've done it about 4 times), I'd suggest doing it right the first time and saving yourself a big headache.


----------



## jellybeans69

So it's been almost a week since i play SC2 , reached #1 in my Silver Division now , off to gold soon hopefully.

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/382664220 , recording of two games i played today, kind of ****ed up my bo n stuff against toss in second yet emerged victorious Blades SH contain with some support for them works quite great


----------



## Costfree

What is "The Core" you guys are referring to?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costfree*
> 
> What is "The Core" you guys are referring to?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878


----------



## 13321G4

I would personally not recommend the core, it seems too... weird for me... I don't like having my thumb on shift. (I also hated the way camera hotkeys worked, forced you to center on a building. Maybe I want to hotkey empty space for later reference? Ever think of that stupid Jakatak?)

I personally use darkgrid but would also not sincerely recommend it. The default hotkey setup might not be optimal but it's definitely not bad. Some relocating is advisable.

(WOL diamond HOTS plat)

PS.
I don't like Jakatak (the maker), most of the comments I see him make are dull and dumb.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Thanks for the feedback guys. Don't most pros use the standard hotkeys or a variation of the grid? One reason I don't want to use The Core is that I switch between playing SC2 and Dota 2 multiple times per day. I don't play nearly enough to experience wrist or hand fatigue anyways.


----------



## poroboszcz

I played JaKaTaK in HotS beta and he was pretty bad. The core or his other improvement stuff he came up with didn't seem to help him before he rage quit without gg. Most good players I know use either grid or standard layout with slight modifications.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys. Don't most pros use the standard hotkeys or a variation of the grid? One reason I don't want to use The Core is that I switch between playing SC2 and Dota 2 multiple times per day. I don't play nearly enough to experience wrist or hand fatigue anyways.


Yes.
It's not worth it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I played JaKaTaK in HotS beta and he was pretty bad. The core or his other improvement stuff he came up with didn't seem to help him before he rage quit without gg. Most good players I know use either grid or standard layout with slight modifications.


That's what I thought. He's all high and mighty "herp derp follow my quick step guide of building zealots, lots of zealots. WHAT you want to build stalkers, oh my word but you aren't good enough to! Oh i'm only plat because I haven't the skill to use my The Core well enough. Ladder rankings mean nothing, people that can't play the game might understand it very well!"

On that last note, I think everyone who is not a professional (not even GM) doesn't understand the game 'well'.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I know missions can be replayed, but when I finish the WoL campagain, can I then replay missions but have all the researched tech/units still unlocked ?


----------



## MKUL7R4

wowow only played one match so far but i can't believe I never made a custom hotkey setup before.

everything is just so fast and convenient now. FF to build a hatchery = fastest Hatchery placement ever same with DD for a Spire. Like I said all my upgrades are on QWE and all unit abilities are FDR. makes everything so homogeneous and easy to use.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> wowow only played one match so far but i can't believe I never made a custom hotkey setup before.
> 
> everything is just so fast and convenient now. FF to build a hatchery = fastest Hatchery placement ever same with DD for a Spire. Like I said all my upgrades are on QWE and all unit abilities are FDR. makes everything so homogeneous and easy to use.


Hmm.

How about hot keying your units and buildings?


----------



## Costfree

Maybe once i get into platinum i can start using custom hotkeys. If i try it right now i feel like it will just complicate things for me


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> How about hot keying your units and buildings?


What do you mean? of course I hotkey my units, and I'm just starting to hotkey my Evo chamber/Spire for upgrades
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costfree*
> 
> Maybe once i get into platinum i can start using custom hotkeys. If i try it right now i feel like it will just complicate things for me


Just got my first ranked win with them after playing 1 AI game and one unranked match. won them all. right now it does require a sec to think about what I hotkeyed everything to, but I can remember it all and I'm sure it will quickly become instantaneous. But yeah it can definitely wait, I don't think this will make me a drastically better player (ex. Jakatak). It's just for comfort and convenience, your core mechanics and strategies are vastly more important.


----------



## 1Kaz

While I don't necessarily agree with JakaTaK's opinions and views, I do think the underlying concept is solid. I even use the concept for key binding other games such as world of warcraft.

Take a spreadsheet and give each key you press a difficulty indicator of how hard it is to press rapidly. Make a list of every command you can give, then color coordinate similar abilities that are often pressed in succession. After doing that, assign your most important and frequently pressed abilities to the keys that are easiest to press. Keep in mind the other keys you need to press in coorilation, then finish laying everything out. In relation to starcraft, ctrl and shift are the most frequently pressed buttons, they also can't be rebound. It makes sense to use the thumb to press them.

For most people, this is more work to do or adjust too for any game. However, if your looking to develop efficient keybinds, it's the best system I know of.

Most SC2 pros carry over from Broodwars or Warcraft 3. The hundred of hours of muscle memory they have already developed is extremely hard to change. Even if another system is better, the amount of time and work it requires to change is not worth it. Especially when that downtime results in a loss of income.

At some point, it's better to get used to the key binds you have than continually change them.. I think that's the #1 reason JakaTaK isn't doing well on the ladder.


----------



## 1Kaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I would personally not recommend the core, it seems too... weird for me... I don't like having my thumb on shift. (I also hated the way camera hotkeys worked, forced you to center on a building. Maybe I want to hotkey empty space for later reference? Ever think of that stupid Jakatak?).


Each hotkey profile has 2 cameras that do not use alt to set (alt centers on selected unit). These hotkeys are specifically for that purpose. It's also quite easy to unbind alt as the center on location and have all cameras freely set depending on what your looking at. In the end, I found centering for my hatcheries was faster.

On a side note, if your considering changing your hotkeys, I'd recommend doing it sooner rather than later. The more hours you put into playing, the more that muscle memory builds and it becomes harder to change.


----------



## 1Kaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costfree*
> 
> Are there any protoss players that stream and give explainations while streaming?!


http://www.twitch.tv/whitera

My favorite protoss to watch. He doesn't always explain what he's doing, but he often gives insight about what he's thinking.


----------



## DoomDash

Update: Finally played a Masters. #1 in my division by a decent margin, but I worry if I get too much TvP I may lose my edge.


----------



## Costfree

So you guys wouldnt suggest using GRID hotkeys for protoss?

EDIT: so i tried it and oh how confusing it is!!!


----------



## Ergates

...and just promoted to Gold league. Chuffed as punch!!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> ...and just promoted to Gold league. Chuffed as punch!!


Grats! Movin up quickly. and "chuffed" is an awesome word


----------



## NewHighScore

Hey guys. I'm a diamond Terran oh Americas. I'm looking for coaching from some masters/GM players if possible. I really want to be a master







. Also looking to join a clan thats not full of immature 13 year old that yell racial profanities all day.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Grats! Movin up quickly. and "chuffed" is an awesome word


Thanks! Now I'm scared, stuff gets more serious now. Hahahahaha!


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Hey guys. I'm a diamond Terran oh Americas. I'm looking for coaching from some masters/GM players if possible. I really want to be a master
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Also looking to join a clan thats not full of immature 13 year old that yell racial profanities all day.


Was watching DeMusliM's stream last night, that'll be US$125/hour for his time if you want lessons from him.









Not only is he an awesome player, but I was impressed at how politely he played, complementing the other guys' tactics when they did well.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Was watching DeMusliM's stream last night, that'll be US$125/hour for his time if you want lessons from him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only is he an awesome player, but I was impressed at how politely he played, complementing the other guys' tactics when they did well.


Yeah actually I was watching his stream yesterday as well. You are right mr Baker is a true gentleman and an excellent sportsman. A great role model for the community. He's probably the exact opposite of IdrA. He mentioned if he did offer coaching it would only be 2 or 3 students but no way in the world would I ever pay that much for coaching, nor would I be lucky enough to be accepted as one of his few students.

Basically I am looking for free coaching from the OCN community. Hopefully from a no namer GM or even some masters players...... or even just a group of people to practice with.... maybe I am looking in the wrong place?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Was watching DeMusliM's stream last night, that'll be US$125/hour for his time if you want lessons from him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only is he an awesome player, but I was impressed at how politely he played, complementing the other guys' tactics when they did well.


That's hilarious that someone would pay that much, and I'm sure he has people lined up around the block too.

I guess it might be worth it if you're already in masters and on the cusp on being good enough to win tournaments and rake in serious cash...but otherwise, no.


----------



## Ergates

Yeah, I wasn't being serious in the recommendation. OTOH, I'm sure his coaching would be of excellent quality. It's the same price Grubby charges, I believe, so is probably not unreasonable at all.

Me, I'm quite content with improving myself by watching matches and following folks like NicoLoco, filtersc and d'Apollo.


----------



## Johnny71

Just reached Daimond myselft on EU! Finally after ~2,5 years. If you do find a coach let me know as I would be the next in line


----------



## NewHighScore

I'll check out nicoloco, filtersc and d'apollo. I really really really really really want to improve. I've played over 9k team games as a total scrub with the worst mechanics not knowing anything having never done any research and just playing. I just watched day 9 #252 about a week ago and it is so hard to break my old bad habits and use proper mechanics, however, it has helped me tremendously since watching. I just feel im at a roadblock. Not really sure what I'm doing wrong. I don't know any specific map/matchup build orders and I only know a few build orders for 1v1 in general. I just feel like I need someone else to help me figure out exactly what im doing wrong. I need help with my decision making and many other things. It's been 3 years and clearly I'm doing it wrong. Some people just aren't good at teaching themselves and I am one of those people.

I spend so much time gaming I want to setup a stream and hopefully in a year or two be able to provide myself with at least a small bit of income. TO do this successfully though I believe I need to be AT LEAST masters league level play or noone will want to watch. Also I dream of making it into GM.

*starts singing*

when i'm grandmaster, i will play faster/
they'll call me bonjwa............

I'm allowed to dream









Are there any other essential Day9 dailies I should watch or essential videos in general?


----------



## nepas

Just gonna leave this here:




What can I say?
























I love Husky,just for the laughs!


----------



## Ergates

Hahahahaha, yeah I almost cried watching that this morning. So awesome it needs this:


----------



## NewHighScore

Oh man I will admit that video had me laughing. What a match lol.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I'll check out nicoloco, filtersc and d'apollo. I really really really really really want to improve. I've played over 9k team games as a total scrub with the worst mechanics not knowing anything having never done any research and just playing. I just watched day 9 #252 about a week ago and it is so hard to break my old bad habits and use proper mechanics, however, it has helped me tremendously since watching. I just feel im at a roadblock. Not really sure what I'm doing wrong. I don't know any specific map/matchup build orders and I only know a few build orders for 1v1 in general. I just feel like I need someone else to help me figure out exactly what im doing wrong. I need help with my decision making and many other things. It's been 3 years and clearly I'm doing it wrong. Some people just aren't good at teaching themselves and I am one of those people.
> 
> I spend so much time gaming I want to setup a stream and hopefully in a year or two be able to provide myself with at least a small bit of income. TO do this successfully though I believe I need to be AT LEAST masters league level play or noone will want to watch. Also I dream of making it into GM.


If you really want to get good
-know all your hotkeys
-have effective scouting
-keep productive APM high, never idle
-most importantly, study all your matchups, and how different maps affect those matchups. learn solid opening build orders and learn how to adapt to your opponents' responses
-watch professional replays

I'm only platinum but I feel like I could advance a little further if i dedicated more time to studying my matchups/maps and learning some build orders. i know a couple but usually I just wing it. even with decent scouting/larva injects/hotkeys/apm/etc. I don't do as well as I could. Dota 2 is half of the problem, I play about 2 games of Dota 2 every day, which takes up to 2 hours.

I'm almost Rank 1 Plat though, gonna try to get into Diamond for the first time this season


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

When re-playing missions after finishing the campagain, are all units unlocked ?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> When re-playing missions after finishing the campagain, are all units unlocked ?


Nop, only units/abilities up to that mission. You can choose what abilities you want to use though, but only in HoTS not WoL.


----------



## DoomDash

Awwwww yeaaaaa!! After 1.5~ years off it only took me 2-3 weeks of playing to get it back! I am still pretty low masters probably in skill, but hopefully I can be back at midhigh.


----------



## Qu1ckset

i need some hots build orders, where is a good place to look? i went from top4 in plat (WOL) to Top13 in silver(HOTS), cant seem to find a good build on my own...

i play protoss..


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Nop, only units/abilities up to that mission. You can choose what abilities you want to use though, but only in HoTS not WoL.


In missions like the 1st zerg mission where there are 8 nests to optionally clear, or the last colonists mission where you could save the 5 or so "towns", that makes it really hard for me on hard let alone brutal.


----------



## novemberzzz

Any plat/diamond toss up to practice ZvP? SanSan.662


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> What do you mean? of course I hotkey my units, and I'm just starting to hotkey my Evo chamber/Spire for upgrades


//facepalm

Im asking how are you using 1-0. Just curious.

@ Doomdash - Grats! I noticed earlier when i was playing you had made masters.


----------



## CravinR1

Someone tell me the OCN hots channel since I have it now


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Awwwww yeaaaaa!! After 1.5~ years off it only took me 2-3 weeks of playing to get it back! I am still pretty low masters probably in skill, but hopefully I can be back at midhigh.


Respect!!! Woooow.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> i need some hots build orders, where is a good place to look? i went from top4 in plat (WOL) to Top13 in silver(HOTS), cant seem to find a good build on my own...
> 
> i play protoss..


I've been playing only for a week and i'm currently #1 in my Silver Division, i'm guessing you're mostly having trouble with zergs, cause swarmhost contain @ ~9-10m seems to be working great vs Toss against this level. There are GM Toss replay packs in TeamLiquid: here you go

Some of my recordings of playing SH contain against both terran/toss, vs zerg it's not worth it and there are better BO for me to do against one.
http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/382664220
http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/383080501


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> Awwwww yeaaaaa!! After 1.5~ years off it only took me 2-3 weeks of playing to get it back! I am still pretty low masters probably in skill, but hopefully I can be back at midhigh.


how many games did it take? i'm top 8 in my plat now and I can easily make it to 1 if i just keep laddering nonstop. but how long do i need to sit there before i get promoted?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> how many games did it take? i'm top 8 in my plat now and I can easily make it to 1 if i just keep laddering nonstop. but how long do i need to sit there before i get promoted?


322 points. Won 77, lost 55 (58.33% wins) Around 130 games it seems


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> 322 points. Won 77, lost 55 (58.33% wins) Around 130 games it seems


Crap I've only played like 50 games so far. I need to quit playing Dota 2 if I really want to advance :/


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> i need some hots build orders, where is a good place to look? i went from top4 in plat (WOL) to Top13 in silver(HOTS), cant seem to find a good build on my own...
> 
> i play protoss..


go to the Teamliquid SC2 Strategy Forum


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> how many games did it take? i'm top 8 in my plat now and I can easily make it to 1 if i just keep laddering nonstop. but how long do i need to sit there before i get promoted?


Its more about your wins vs quality opponents and your wins over losses than games played. You can get promoted much faster than me I just was struggling at times.


----------



## nepas

I.......I.............what can I say






This is THE best worst I have EVER seen,its AWESOME!!

Watched it twice so far and its still nuts!

it is a serious case of.....How,What,When,Who,How,Eh,Oh.......


----------



## squall325

I just can't stop laughing! Everything is such a fail!







)


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> //facepalm
> 
> Im asking how are you using 1-0. Just curious.


1-2 army








3 hatcheries
4 evo/spire

probably some of the newbiest hotkeys ever


----------



## squall325

finally started playing ladder after being dumped to bronze league. So far its 3-3 with the exception of 0-5 placement matches. Didn't know 6pool cheese works in bronze, tried it out on my last game coz the other games took awhile using d"Apollo's guide.

I still feel pretty rattled when there's a lot going on in the map, mouse control, hotkeys, macroing (minerals always go over 1k), and etc.
Should I continue playing/practicing through ladder or against AI custom games?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> finally started playing ladder after being dumped to bronze league. So far its 3-3 with the exception of 0-5 placement matches. Didn't know 6pool cheese works in bronze, tried it out on my last game coz the other games took awhile using d"Apollo's guide.
> 
> I still feel pretty rattled when there's a lot going on in the map, mouse control, hotkeys, macroing (minerals always go over 1k), and etc.
> Should I continue playing/practicing through ladder or against AI custom games?


Playing vs AI will teach you nothing. Just play unranked if you want less pressure. what race do you play?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Playing vs AI will teach you nothing. Just play unranked if you want less pressure. what race do you play?


I disagree. AI is a great way to practice and refine your mechanics.


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Playing vs AI will teach you nothing. Just play unranked if you want less pressure. what race do you play?


I play Zerg. I'm doing the "safe/defensive build" d'Apollo teaches. 14/14 - Pool/Ext or 15 Hatch. Sometimes I cheese with 6pool when I get bored. My mechanics start to suffer during mid game when I start to harass mineral lines with mutas while maintaining econ macro, expand, and lings. Sometimes I get confused of going roach nest or baneling nest first. I know there's no definite build though. Just that what I wrote above rattles me and messes up my mechanics by being nervous. LOL you heard that right. Nervous lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I disagree. AI is a great way to practice and refine your mechanics.


+1. In unranked, you will face opponents who do stuff noone would do in a normal game, therefore that teaches you nothing.
AI plays pretty much standard and identical every time, which allows you to refine your playing without it being ruined by a cheesing opponent.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Ah hotkeys

`(hotkey 0 rebound to ~) is harrass or special, like phoenix, oracle, muta, medivac, raven

1 stalker/roach/MM

2 zealot HT DT archon/ ghost viking/zergling ultralisk infestor.

3 other support, like void/colossus/immortal/carrier/tempest/tanks/battlecruisers/hydra/brood/queens that aren't assigned to a hatch.

4 nex/ CC/hatches

5 queens assigned to hatcherys/ barracks/robo

6 fac/starport/stargate

7-9, unused


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Ah hotkeys
> 
> `(hotkey 0 rebound to ~) is harrass or special, like phoenix, oracle, muta, medivac, raven
> 
> 1 stalker/roach/MM
> 
> 2 zealot HT DT archon/ ghost viking/zergling ultralisk infestor.
> 
> 3 other support, like void/colossus/immortal/carrier/tempest/tanks/battlecruisers/hydra/brood/queens that aren't assigned to a hatch.
> 
> 4 nex/ CC/hatches
> 
> 5 queens assigned to hatcherys/ barracks/robo
> 
> 6 fac/starport/stargate
> 
> 7-9, unused


Interesting idea about binding a control group hotkey to `, I think I'll do that. I use 1-3 for units, 4 for hatcheries, 5 for all queens, 6 for non-hatch queens. I also bind evo chambers to 0 and spire(s) to 9.

Backspace is rebound to Shift-Spacebar, which I use to inject.


----------



## GoodbyeGalaxy

High Diamond Zerg here. I'm weird when it comes to hotkeys. QWER are camera hotkeys. A is all hatches, 1-6 unit hotkeys. Space is Attack Move. Take some time to really stare at your hand when it's on the keyboard. That's the hotkey setup I came up with for maximum efficiency. If anyone on NA would like some tips/coaching or is Diamond+ and wants to practice feel free to msg or add me as a friend







.

GameOfDrones #365


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodbyeGalaxy*
> 
> High Diamond Zerg here. I'm weird when it comes to hotkeys. QWER are camera hotkeys. A is all hatches, 1-6 unit hotkeys. Space is Attack Move. Take some time to really stare at your hand when it's on the keyboard. That's the hotkey setup I came up with for maximum efficiency. If anyone on NA would like some tips/coaching or is Diamond+ and wants to practice feel free to msg or add me as a friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> GameOfDrones #365


Awesome. I'll add you. Startup Zerg user her and would need some tips and coaching soon.


----------



## Bolaz

Anyone a high lvl Terran player here that would like to teach someone how to play? Or give some tips and advice? I have been playing for a week and i am all over the place trying to learn


----------



## NewHighScore

Haha I had the pleasure of playing Husky without even knowing I was playing him. derp. It was his 5th placement match and I lost. /hangs head in shame. You can all laugh at me.









a fellow viewer on twitch.tv just showed it to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6N-6OfdoU


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> 1-2 army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 hatcheries
> 4 evo/spire
> 
> probably some of the newbiest hotkeys ever


Are you saying its newbie for me asking?


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Haha I had the pleasure of playing Husky without even knowing I was playing him. derp. It was his 5th placement match and I lost. /hangs head in shame. You can all laugh at me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a fellow viewer on twitch.tv just showed it to me.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6N-6OfdoU


Oh, I just watched that. Nothing to laugh at mate, plus you were nice.


----------



## SeD669

nice game.. you did well







. How can I send my replays to people?? I have a few that I would love some advice on. I decided to throw my placement matches and go to a lower league since I couldn't handle gold division like last time. turns out bronze league is really fun







.. but I have to be careful after a few games I'm already top 5 in my division. Really want to stay in this league and muck around


----------



## CloudX

I'm new, add me! Looking to get some fun games going!

CloudX#1420


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> nice game.. you did well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . How can I send my replays to people?? I have a few that I would love some advice on. I decided to throw my placement matches and go to a lower league since I couldn't handle gold division like last time. turns out bronze league is really fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. but I have to be careful after a few games I'm already top 5 in my division. Really want to stay in this league and muck around


Replays can be posted on drop.sc.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Haha I had the pleasure of playing Husky without even knowing I was playing him. derp. It was his 5th placement match and I lost. /hangs head in shame. You can all laugh at me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a fellow viewer on twitch.tv just showed it to me.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6N-6OfdoU


No GG, BM!


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Replays can be posted on drop.sc.


cheers mate.

Literally won like 4 games and got promoted.. why does god hate me?

EDIT: where can I find my actual replay? its not in my SC2 folder.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Oh, I just watched that. Nothing to laugh at mate, plus you were nice.


Thanks I was just kidding about the laugh at me







. It was pretty much a build order loss. I might have been able to save myself with a bit better decision making at the end. shoulda pulled ALL scv's at the same time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> nice game.. you did well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . How can I send my replays to people?? I have a few that I would love some advice on. I decided to throw my placement matches and go to a lower league since I couldn't handle gold division like last time. turns out bronze league is really fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. but I have to be careful after a few games I'm already top 5 in my division. Really want to stay in this league and muck around


I can't remember the folder but if you dig around in your sc2 folder you should be able to find the replays. I usually just email them to my friends. Not sure about uploading them anywhere tho.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CloudX*
> 
> I'm new, add me! Looking to get some fun games going!
> 
> CloudX#1420


I like your character code.







I'll add ya up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> No GG, BM!


Hehe as they say.. no gg no skill.







I admit I was frustrated with that loss cuz I have a ton of trouble in my TvP and like 90% of them are 1 base allins. I'm just glad I didn't actually BM cuz I have done it before. I'm only human.


----------



## Bolaz

Please also add me, im looking for people to play with my screen name is Bolaz Character Code 958


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Please also add me, im looking for people to play with my screen name is Bolaz Character Code 958


What league and rank are you?


----------



## Bolaz

Im a total N00B ranking as we speak


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Please also add me, im looking for people to play with my screen name is Bolaz Character Code 958


I'll add you but I doubt we could teach each other much


----------



## Bolaz

Gotta start somewhere, im about to play right now lol


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Im a total N00B ranking as we speak


I'll add you, I haven't played since SC2 first came out







I want to get back into it so I need a noob partner to play with.


----------



## twerk

Double post


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Double post


Andy, i lost you man. Add me back up


----------



## Sainesk

Just a heads up, starting on the 31st there will be three 15 years of starcraft anniversary portraits (one for each race) and it's going to be really easy to get so try to fit in one game before April 17th if you want them









Quote:



> Mission Objective:
> 
> Play one game of StarCraft II in any online mode before 11:59 p.m. PDT on April 17. (1 Remaining)
> 
> Beginning March 31, play one Arcade, Custom, Ranked, Training, Unranked, or Versus A.I. game to earn the StarCraft 15-Year Anniversary Feat of Strength achievement. As soon as you've received the achievement, all three portraits will be permanently unlocked in your StarCraft II character profile.


edit: actually from the comments I believe they are already available in game:

Quote from Blizzard:


> Nah...we just decided to put it up a bit early.  Enjoy!





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler (New Portraits pic)


----------



## Fatal05

Reminder that Terran is the glorious master race, and hardest to master.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Are there new units/tech in HoTS, I assume so but haven't tried it yet, finishing off WoL 1st.

In 3 weeks I will have a 30" 2560x1600 IPS, then I will have to restart WoL, and Skyrim for sure.


----------



## SeD669

Just tried to add a few people from this forum and my SC2 says there are no users with this ID.. lol I'm in AUS so probably that's why right?


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Just tried to add a few people from this forum and my SC2 says there are no users with this ID.. lol I'm in AUS so probably that's why right?


We were trying earlier and it wasnt working for us either...


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> We were trying earlier and it wasnt working for us either...


OK I'll try you again later


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> EDIT: where can I find my actual replay? its not in my SC2 folder.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I can't remember the folder but if you dig around in your sc2 folder you should be able to find the replays. I usually just email them to my friends. Not sure about uploading them anywhere tho.


The default location for all of your replays/saves/etc is *My Documents \ StarCraft II*. The actual path (Vista/7/8) is as follows:

*C:\Users\[USER]\Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\[account number]\[profile number]\Replays*

For me, my "account number" folder is a 7-digit number, and the "profile number" is a folder that starts with "1-S2-1-..."

If you don't want to dig through subfolders, you should see some shortcuts inside My Docs\StarCraft II that point to your specific profile folder. If I follow the shortcut named "[email protected]" inside of my My Docs\StarCraft II folder, it takes me directly to (C:\Users\[USER]\Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\[Account #]\[Profile #]\).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Just tried to add a few people from this forum and my SC2 says there are no users with this ID.. lol I'm in AUS so probably that's why right?


User IDs are region-specific. Now that Global Play is live you can play on whatever region you want, but the UserID.### codes are unique to each region. You can switch your region to NA and add NA people, but you can't add NA people in SEA.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/starcraft-ii-global-play-faq

_"No, characters, profiles, and ladder rankings will not transfer between regions. When you switch to a new region for the first time, you will be prompted to create a new profile for that region. None of your existing progress in another region will transfer."_


----------



## Twistacles

Hots is awesome.

That is all.

Edit: Fixxed my sig if you wanna add me.


----------



## Sainesk

Just did 3v3 5 placement matches with a friend and we got placed in different leagues... Does this mean the game now analyzes performance/scores and is it exclusive to placement matches?


----------



## ronnin426850

Wait, I just played HOTS starter ed for the first time - did they ditch nearly all of Terran's new units?? All we got left is the next to useless mine, and the hellion-walker piece of poo? All the cool stuff is gone?? Are they freakin kidding me??


----------



## squall325

Widow mines are actually OP.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> Widow mines are actually OP.


Why? How? They fire about once in their life time


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> Widow mines are actually OP.


Only OP if you don't know how to deal with them, the same applies to everything.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Why? How? They fire about once in their life time


It's almost impossible for them to not be cost efficient (kill less resources worth of stuff than they cost). They're basically a burrowed (without needing to research burrow) baneling (deal splash damage) but can hit air, don't die when they attack and you don't even need to watch over them since they auto attack when something gets near.

I've started getting fairly comfortable dealing with them, but I don't really have fun using them. I don't want them nerfed because then we might end up with another Caduceus Reactor (that Medivac upgrade which currently makes you seem like you're trolling if you get it since currently it's such a waste...). I would prefer they remove it and add another unit instead or extremely change the way they work.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

The last week or so I have zerg death cries on my mind


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> The last week or so I have zerg death cries on my mind


You sir need a break, or need to completely rethink how much losing matters. None at all is how much losing means. lol

There were times back in the sc1 days i would dream about playing bgh's and sieging and unsieging my tanks alll night. That is a tell tell sign.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm so bad and I don't know how to play this game. My mech doesn't work as well in Masters.

If anyone wants to know how to deal with Terran mech:

ZvT : Vipers and whatever

TvT: Too hard to explain

PvT: Play normal, 1A.


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You sir need a break, or need to completely rethink how much losing matters. None at all is how much losing means. lol
> 
> There were times back in the sc1 days i would dream about playing bgh's and sieging and unsieging my tanks alll night. That is a tell tell sign.


Aaaaaaaaahhhhh!!! GOD! I'm just about getting out of this stage, although the stress of promotion is bringing it back.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You sir need a break, or need to completely rethink how much losing matters. None at all is how much losing means. lol
> 
> There were times back in the sc1 days i would dream about playing bgh's and sieging and unsieging my tanks alll night. That is a tell tell sign.


Losing matters! When you lose you learn. I've been learning a lot recently, lol.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

SCIENCE HURTS

I've been replaying WoL missions to get all the bonus points. What do they count for?

Also I don't like the time limit on the 2nd tier of challenges


----------



## Qu1ckset

Starcraft 2: Heart of Swarm

























Starting to get better almost first in Gold League, il be back to Platinum in no time!
Feel Free to Add me: "Raven" 843


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Just did 3v3 5 placement matches with a friend and we got placed in different leagues... Does this mean the game now analyzes performance/scores and is it exclusive to placement matches?


2 people who query as 3v3 get "random 3v3" placement. If either of you play a 3v3 with one other player it will affect your placement. Should not be placed differently if you played all 5 placements together
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Starcraft 2: Heart of Swarm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to get better almost first in Gold League, il be back to Platinum in no time!
> Feel Free to Add me: "Raven" 843


3v3 gold is wood league. You count your 1v1 league not your team leagues


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> 2 people who query as 3v3 get "random 3v3" placement. If either of you play a 3v3 with one other player it will affect your placement. Should not be placed differently if you played all 5 placements together
> 3v3 gold is wood league. You count your 1v1 league not your team leagues


i never play 1v1, i have fun playing 3v3s


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> i never play 1v1, i have fun playing 3v3s


If you hone your 1v1 skills it will reflect highly in your team leagues.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> i never play 1v1, i have fun playing 3v3s


Fine play 3v3, but don't say you're gold

Cause a gold player will decimate you 1v1 and thats what determines your league

Me and a friend got Masters 2v2 with a good strat, neither of us were above plat in 1v1 and would die to a diamond or masters player 1v1 fairly quickly

So basically don't say you're gold if you don't play 1v1, just say you are in 3v3 gold league (big difference from stating you're a gold sc2 player)


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Fine play 3v3, but don't say you're gold
> 
> Cause a gold player will decimate you 1v1 and thats what determines your league
> 
> Me and a friend got Masters 2v2 with a good strat, neither of us were above plat in 1v1 and would die to a diamond or masters player 1v1 fairly quickly
> 
> So basically don't say you're gold if you don't play 1v1, just say you are in 3v3 gold league (big difference from stating you're a gold sc2 player)


il play some 1v1s tmr and see where it ranks me


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Fine play 3v3, but don't say you're gold
> 
> Cause a gold player will decimate you 1v1 and thats what determines your league
> 
> Me and a friend got Masters 2v2 with a good strat, neither of us were above plat in 1v1 and would die to a diamond or masters player 1v1 fairly quickly
> 
> So basically don't say you're gold if you don't play 1v1, just say you are in 3v3 gold league (big difference from stating you're a gold sc2 player)


Debbie Downer detected. who cares if he says he's gold? it's not like he's claiming to be masters or something.

But yea I was in masters 4v4 for 3 seasons. still platinum solo :/


----------



## DoomDash

I find no enjoyment in team games. I did in BW but for some reason in SCII I always hated them.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I find no enjoyment in team games. I did in BW but for some reason in SCII I always hated them.


I used to really enjoy teamgames when I had in game friends but they all disappeared over time and random teammates make me RAAAAAAAAAAAGE lol so I decided to start learning 1v1.

When I do play teams with random folks I try to stick to 2v2 because there are less people to derp.


----------



## Shadeh

I'm platnium now and i know that doesn't make me pro. But from bronze league alllll the way to platnium i think macro makes the biggest deal. As i was in platnium, i won my first few games.. then, i started geting my ass kicked about 6 games in a row. So i had to analyze what i did wrong. It is then i realized i didn't keep up production. While i did do a good job building scvs and CCs i didn't build enough production facilities. Thus costing me a game (logic actually). But now i've been winning again and i'm in the top 8 platnium. Hope to reach diamond sometime soon.


----------



## jellybeans69

So been playing SC2 for bit over a week, and it's time to move up a lil bit









And regarding previous discussion 1v1>any team ladder, i've had many gold/plat/diamond ranked people (in team ladder) , who i was laddering against in my 1v1 silver league... and well they weren't exactly "good"


----------



## TranquilTempest

Keep in mind, gold and silver are a lot easier to get into than they were in WoL, instead of 20% 20% 20%, it's 32%, 20%, 8% for gold, silver, bronze.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Keep in mind, gold and silver are a lot easier to get into than they were in WoL, instead of 20% 20% 20%, it's 32%, 20%, 8% for gold, silver, bronze.


Yeah i know, still i guess not too bad for someone playing only for a week.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Keep in mind, gold and silver are a lot easier to get into than they were in WoL, instead of 20% 20% 20%, it's 32%, 20%, 8% for gold, silver, bronze.


What does these percentages mean?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> What does these percentages mean?


It means of 100% of people

8% Are placed in bronze , 20% in silver , 32% in gold an so on
Opposing in WoL it was
20% bronze/20% silver/20% gold...


----------



## connectwise

I see you're talking about distribution.

Well it really don't matter to me. Even though friends are bugging me to buy hots to "kick my ass", I haven't found the motivation to get it yet. I've just been watching videos on youtube.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> I see you're talking about distribution.
> 
> Well it really don't matter to me. Even though friends are bugging me to buy hots to "kick my ass", I haven't found the motivation to get it yet. I've just been watching videos on youtube.


Bought it a week ago cuz got bored of dota2 and got nothing else i really want to play


----------



## MKUL7R4

I'm comin for that number one headband...


----------



## Tech-Boy

Got 400 games under my belt and just moved up to Diamond in HOTS. I am zerg and don't have much problems against Protoss or zerg. However terran is really destroying me. Any good zergs with tips? Or willing to watch some of my games to tell me what I am doing wrong?

Add me Seth#1598


----------



## MKUL7R4

getting matched up against diamonds now







1-1 vs them


----------



## Ergates

Just trying one of the new HotS builds, and holy [email protected] am I incompetent. Lots of practice needed, because this ain't gonna cut it. Leaving it for tomorrow now, I'm too tired to do this properly.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Keep in mind, gold and silver are a lot easier to get into than they were in WoL, instead of 20% 20% 20%, it's 32%, 20%, 8% for gold, silver, bronze.


I've seen those percentages quoted before but I'm not sure it's true: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

Can't wait to finish campaign tonight so I can start playing ladder again.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I've seen those percentages quoted before but I'm not sure it's true: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
> 
> Can't wait to finish campaign tonight so I can start playing ladder again.


Was actually wondering this myself , seems like diamond was adjusted to 5% instead of 2% sometime during end of WoL so might have been silver/gold too.
It looks like that it's actually 8% bronze + people who havent done placement matches , 32% silver and 20% gold by SC2 ranks %


----------



## MKUL7R4

man I've been playing some GRINDY zvz games but I'm finally Rank 1







had to fend off 2 different Spine rush cheeses but won both of those too. Diamond here I come!


----------



## NewHighScore

Leagues are really wonky right now. As a Diamond player I have been matching against anywhere from silver to masters players. I think it will take a bit of time for things to balance out.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I've seen those percentages quoted before but I'm not sure it's true: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
> 
> Can't wait to finish campaign tonight so I can start playing ladder again.


Blizzard's percentages are supposed to be of active players only, sc2ranks is supposed to be of all placed players. The promotion system is also indirect about getting those percentages, you don't get promoted when your mmr reaches x%, it's when your mmr hits X, and you've played enough games against better players that blizz is reasonably confident about the accuracy of your MMR.


----------



## DoomDash

Spending time watching streams this weekend before I go back to playing. Trying to pick up things to improve on for HotS and in general. Learning a bit watching DeMuslim.


----------



## MKUL7R4

YESSSSSSSSS first time in Diamond!


----------



## BigFan

Warhound is back!









So after considering every angle, here's what's changing:
- The Warhound has been added for Terran because robots are cool and the art is amazing
- The Warhound has been added for Zerg to remain competitive with Terran.
- The Warhound has been added for Protoss to keep Protoss players from whining about them on the forums.

Source: https://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/9369235


----------



## ronnin426850

Well, OP or not, widow mines are an un-interesting unit. IMO they don't bring any excitement to the game. The shredder was about the only original and interesting thing that happened to the terran since the Viking.

I'm personally bored with terran's units. You don't get any feeling of power unless you go for the cartoony Thor, and you don't get any cool sci-fi moments from the battlecruiser either (the pew-pew gun is a joke). And all the goodies HOTS brought seem to be gone now..

IMO as far as terran is concerned, HOTS is a patch, not an expansion. Hate me


----------



## squall325

I agree with you regarding HoTS as a patch. But only for the multiplayer aspect. It deserves its expansion title for its well made campaign.

on the warhound topic:
so warhound can be made from factories (terran), larva (zerg), robotics faci (toss)? I mean seriously, its a mechanized unit with a terran look. Unless zerg and toss have different models for it.

OH WAIT! APRIL FOOLS! WTH! FELL FOR IT!


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Well, OP or not, widow mines are an un-interesting unit. IMO they don't bring any excitement to the game. The shredder was about the only original and interesting thing that happened to the terran since the Viking.
> 
> I'm personally bored with terran's units. You don't get any feeling of power unless you go for the cartoony Thor, and you don't get any cool sci-fi moments from the battlecruiser either (the pew-pew gun is a joke). And all the goodies HOTS brought seem to be gone now..
> 
> IMO as far as terran is concerned, HOTS is a patch, not an expansion. Hate me


widow mines bring something more to the game, they bring positional play back to a degree. The randomness of the widow mine as to which unit it'll hit and having to constantly reposition them as well as using them in early pressure and can be used to shut down certain styles of play(think drops) is huge to the game. Shredders were interesting but they had issues with balance


----------



## Yukss

i just got diamond, playing host only for a week, is MUCHHHH EASIER get masters in host than in wol.. i got master in wol after 3 years lol.. few more game and i will get masters in host..

ps. im still playing wol and i still masters there











*NOTE.*

i want to share this little rush againts any race with toss.. is mothership core 2 gate push (that´s how i call it)

Alba EE (19).zip 24k .zip file


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i just got diamond, playing host only for a week, is MUCHHHH EASIER get masters in host than in wol.. i got master in wol after 3 years lol.. few more game and i will get masters in host..
> 
> ps. im still playing wol and i still masters there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE.*
> 
> i want to share this little rush againts any race with toss.. is mothership core 2 gate push (that´s how i call it)
> 
> Alba EE (19).zip 24k .zip file


You beat a gold and get promoted into diamond


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Warhound is back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So after considering every angle, here's what's changing:
> - The Warhound has been added for Terran because robots are cool and the art is amazing
> - The Warhound has been added for Zerg to remain competitive with Terran.
> - The Warhound has been added for Protoss to keep Protoss players from whining about them on the forums.
> 
> Source: https://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/9369235


lol.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You beat a gold and get promoted into diamond


yeah that was weird.. i was facing diamond until this match.. maybe he had his mmr high..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i just got diamond, playing host only for a week, is MUCHHHH EASIER get masters in host than in wol.. i got master in wol after 3 years lol.. few more game and i will get masters in host..
> 
> ps. im still playing wol and i still masters there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE.*
> 
> i want to share this little rush againts any race with toss.. is mothership core 2 gate push (that´s how i call it)
> 
> Alba EE (19).zip 24k .zip file


You still hacking?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Warhound is back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So after considering every angle, here's what's changing:
> - The Warhound has been added for Terran because robots are cool and the art is amazing
> - The Warhound has been added for Zerg to remain competitive with Terran.
> - The Warhound has been added for Protoss to keep Protoss players from whining about them on the forums.
> 
> Source: https://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/9369235


Apparently all workers have a warhound skin at the moment that you can't turn off... I got a little laugh out of the obvious april fools post, but I think that's seriously annoying and going over the top and leads me to join the argument that there should be an option to turn skins off.

Just one of the serious problems with it:

Quote:


> IMO this joke kinda makes things a little OP for Random players. If he's not Protoss, it's harder to tell what race he is just by his﻿ scouting worker.


and I play random... I know that I can just not play for a day or two until they remove it, but that's simply not an option for some of the pros that make a living off the game.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Apparently all workers have a warhound skin at the moment that you can't turn off... I got a little laugh out of the obvious april fools post, but I think that's seriously annoying and going over the top and leads me to join the argument that there should be an option to turn skins off.
> 
> Just one of the serious problems with it:
> and I play random... I know that I can just not play for a day or two until they remove it, but that's simply not an option for some of the pros that make a living off the game.


Lol!!
If hd doesnt scout its zerg. If he scouts but no shield its terran and if he has shields its toss. Lol. Joking of course.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You still hacking?


lol hacking ???

did you see that replay ?? did i hacked that guy ? lol








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Apparently all workers have a warhound skin at the moment that you can't turn off... I got a little laugh out of the obvious april fools post, but I think that's seriously annoying and going over the top and leads me to join the argument that there should be an option to turn skins off.
> 
> Just one of the serious problems with it:
> and I play random... I know that I can just not play for a day or two until they remove it, but that's simply not an option for some of the pros that make a living off the game.


yeah that is annoying, i just cannot focus on the game seeying those warhounds .. op mining ftw lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i just got diamond, playing host only for a week, is MUCHHHH EASIER get masters in host than in wol.. i got master in wol after 3 years lol.. few more game and i will get masters in host..
> 
> ps. im still playing wol and i still masters there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE.*
> 
> i want to share this little rush againts any race with toss.. is mothership core 2 gate push (that´s how i call it)
> 
> Alba EE (19).zip 24k .zip file
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still hacking?
Click to expand...

he hacked?


----------



## 13321G4

We suspect so:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Possible maphacker?
> http://drop.sc/302302
> 
> He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Possible maphacker?
> http://drop.sc/302302
> 
> He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it, but you'd have to check his other games to make sure he doesn't forge in main against z when they're playing standard.
> 
> Edit: 90% sure he's maphacking. He's somehow in master league with bronze level forcefield placement and pro level reaction time.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.
> 
> Here's another one
> http://drop.sc/302304
> constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)
> 
> edit:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Are you using a maphack?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he is using maphack.
Click to expand...

After watching the replays I agree with this:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.
> 
> Here's another one
> http://drop.sc/302304
> constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)
> 
> edit:
> Yes he is using maphack.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it! Explains how he can be master with such a horrible macro.
Click to expand...

His opening macro PvT is ridiculous. Not lining up chronoboost, not building third pylon on time.
The PvZ, nobody opens with the forge there, it's just bad.


----------



## Anti!!

^this


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> We suspect so:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Possible maphacker?
> http://drop.sc/302302
> 
> He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Possible maphacker?
> http://drop.sc/302302
> 
> He also has posted on this forum under YuKsS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like it, but you'd have to check his other games to make sure he doesn't forge in main against z when they're playing standard.
> 
> Edit: 90% sure he's maphacking. He's somehow in master league with bronze level forcefield placement and pro level reaction time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.
> 
> Here's another one
> http://drop.sc/302304
> constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)
> 
> edit:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Are you using a maphack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes he is using maphack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After watching the replays I agree with this:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> Note he builds cannon *before* he sees the zerglings.
> 
> Here's another one
> http://drop.sc/302304
> constantly looking at terran's base (no obs or anything)
> 
> edit:
> Yes he is using maphack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it! Explains how he can be master with such a horrible macro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His opening macro PvT is ridiculous. Not lining up chronoboost, not building third pylon on time.
> The PvZ, nobody opens with the forge there, it's just bad.
Click to expand...

hmmm does seem quite suspicious.

4:10 - instantly putting the way-point exactly on the eng. bay that is building with no vision.

10:30 - suddenly looking at the army moving out through the fog-of-war and instantly going back and building cannons.

13:04 - suddenly looking at the enemy working sitting in his third, through fog-of-war.

13:14 - instantly, and randomly, looking through the fog-of-war at the re-enforcements from his enemy coming in.

13:57 - selecting his whole army just before the enemy army moves in. And moving his stalkers in JUST before the vikings actually come into vision.

14:12 - taking a quick glance at the enemy army through the fog-of-war.

14:30 - taking another look.

14:36 - moving out to their exact location, despite him never having seen them before.

15:57 - looking at the enemy army / moving cc (although could just be co-incidence)

16:41 - looking at the enemy army (although could just be co-incidence), but after looking he suddenly decides to not go in.

17:57 - looking at the enemy army, exactly on their army. Not a co-incidence. Sees the multiple vikings, makes more stalkers.

18:16 - looking at the enemy army yet again, as well as his entire base. Definitely looks like map hacks.

18:58 - looks at the enemy army moving towards him through the fog of war.

Yeah I would say this was map hacks.


----------



## Yukss

nice post here.. im not a hacker, i do have bad and good games, micro and macro are no always the best , and even cannonrusherS gets masters, so why i cannot be masters too?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> nice post here.. im not a hacker, i do have bad and good games, micro and macro are no always the best , and even cannonrusherS gets masters, so why i cannot be masters too?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> 4:10 - instantly putting the way-point exactly on the eng. bay that is building with no vision.
> 
> 10:30 - suddenly looking at the army moving out through the fog-of-war and instantly going back and building cannons.
> 
> 13:04 - suddenly looking at the enemy working sitting in his third, through fog-of-war.
> 
> 13:14 - instantly, and randomly, looking through the fog-of-war at the re-enforcements from his enemy coming in.
> 
> 13:57 - selecting his whole army just before the enemy army moves in. And moving his stalkers in JUST before the vikings actually come into vision.
> 
> 14:12 - taking a quick glance at the enemy army through the fog-of-war.
> 
> 14:30 - taking another look.
> 
> 14:36 - moving out to their exact location, despite him never having seen them before.
> 
> 15:57 - looking at the enemy army / moving cc (although could just be co-incidence)
> 
> 16:41 - looking at the enemy army (although could just be co-incidence), but after looking he suddenly decides to not go in.
> 
> 17:57 - looking at the enemy army, exactly on their army. Not a co-incidence. Sees the multiple vikings, makes more stalkers.
> 
> 18:16 - looking at the enemy army yet again, as well as his entire base. Definitely looks like map hacks.
> 
> 18:58 - looks at the enemy army moving towards him through the fog of war.
> 
> Yeah I would say this was map hacks.


explain that please.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> explain that please.


easy, play againts me.. you will see if i hack..


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> explain that please.
> 
> 
> 
> easy, play againts me.. you will see if i hack..
Click to expand...

If I do that you won't hack for that game, I would just like you to explain the fog-of-war hacks.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> If I do that you won't hack for that game, I would just like you to explain the fog-of-war hacks.


i dont understand what is that in english.. please use other words..

i mainly speak spanish


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> If I do that you won't hack for that game, I would just like you to explain the fog-of-war hacks.
> 
> 
> 
> i dont understand what is that in english.. please use other words..
> 
> i mainly speak spanish
Click to expand...

What is your in game name / code and region?


----------



## MKUL7R4

(I'm not commenting on Yukss as I haven't watched the replays or anything)

But I really don't understand people that hack to win. What the hell is the point? You're never going to win any tournaments like that, and all you get is a false sense of superiority. In reality you're just a terrible player and moreover a sad, sad little man. It must feel so incredibly salty when you hack and still lose.

(No estoy comentando Yukss ya que no he visto las repeticiones ni nada)

Pero realmente no entiendo a la gente que truco para ganar. ¿Qué demonios es el punto? Usted nunca va a ganar ningún torneo como ese, y lo único que consigue es un falso sentido de superioridad. En realidad no eres más que un jugador terrible y, además, un hombre triste, triste. Debe sentirse tan increíblemente salada cuando cortar y perder todavía.


----------



## Ergates

Hacked wins must give very little satisfaction at all, IMO. The most rewarding wins are usually the hardest ones. Map hack gaming must be like playing an easy AI, yes?


----------



## Yukss

yukss
real id
[email protected]

im not a hacker-- omg


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> yukss
> real id
> [email protected]
> 
> im not a hacker-- omg


the replay proves otherwise


----------



## NewHighScore

I didn't watch the replay but..... who would load a replay up of their maphacks? ANd I was under the impression there was no maphack for hots yet?

Is it at all possible some of those things are coincidental or is it just that blatantly obvious? Like is it possible he was looking at fog of war with camera location spams? I do that sometimes







.

no way I am d/ling a zip file from anywhere







.... nothing but drivers and essentials will be downloaded on this pc.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I didn't watch the replay but..... who would load a replay up of their maphacks? ANd I was under the impression there was no maphack for hots yet?
> 
> Is it at all possible some of those things are coincidental or is it just that blatantly obvious? Like is it possible he was looking at fog of war with camera location spams? I do that sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> no way I am d/ling a zip file from anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... nothing but drivers and essentials will be downloaded on this pc.


finally a person who thinks different or have a different point of view


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I didn't watch the replay but..... who would load a replay up of their maphacks? ANd I was under the impression there was no maphack for hots yet?
> 
> Is it at all possible some of those things are coincidental or is it just that blatantly obvious? Like is it possible he was looking at fog of war with camera location spams? I do that sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> no way I am d/ling a zip file from anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... nothing but drivers and essentials will be downloaded on this pc.


it's just the replay pack, and it was in WoL.

And it wasn't a spasm, he looked multiple times at the exact location of the enemy's army / buildings.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I didn't watch the replay but..... who would load a replay up of their maphacks? ANd I was under the impression there was no maphack for hots yet?
> 
> Is it at all possible some of those things are coincidental or is it just that blatantly obvious? Like is it possible he was looking at fog of war with camera location spams? I do that sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> no way I am d/ling a zip file from anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... nothing but drivers and essentials will be downloaded on this pc.


I'm pretty sure there were hacks out that worked in HotS before they even released HotS. Anything that works in WoL 1.5 or later would work in HotS. I'm in master league, and his mechanics are bad enough that I'm confident I can beat him 100% of the time, even if I tell him my opening beforehand. If I didn't know he was a maphacker, it would be possible for him to win against me maybe, but if I know beforehand, i can avoid doing anything greedy or cheesy, and just win on mechanics.


----------



## poroboszcz

There is more than one game as evidence. Could be a coincidence f it happened once or twice but not in like 6 games so far and spotted by several different people. It's rather blatant for anyone with basic understanding of the game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> In the second game you blindly reinforce the wall with gateways and pylons as soon as your opponent gets baneling nest, but you don't do this in the other games. In the third game you build cannons in your mineral lines and start phoenixes after your opponent drops a spire. All this without any scouting. In all three games your macro does not look like master level play (supply blocks, floating tons of money).


----------



## DoomDash

I think I need to join a Diamond / Masters clan. Anyone got one?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I'm pretty sure there were hacks out that worked in HotS before they even released HotS. Anything that works in WoL 1.5 or later would work in HotS. I'm in master league, and his mechanics are bad enough that I'm confident I can beat him 100% of the time, even if I tell him my opening beforehand. If I didn't know he was a maphacker, it would be possible for him to win against me maybe, but if I know beforehand, i can avoid doing anything greedy or cheesy, and just win on mechanics.


ok beat me then


----------



## Yukss

Is not fair to acuse me of cheating. I can play you guys anytime. In fact. I Will play in a hour Or so. You May Or May not beat me. But im not a hacker


----------



## Yukss

Double post


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> ok beat me then


I'm in the OCN group channel right now, name is SoulWager.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think I need to join a Diamond / Masters clan. Anyone got one?


I have a clan. We used to be more active with a couple of rank 1 diamonds, and a masters, but its just me and another now. Kinda short on the diehards. Anyways. My buddy and i have been practicing. He is masters. He just got Hots today though, but has been beating GMs in the past. I am trying to get masters also and still need work. Eitherway the point is you are welcome if you want, and dont mind a small group for now. (NO DRAMA!!) I am looking to add more in the future of course.

ClanDarkSide.com

I did not come up with the clan name. I am just a senior officer in it, and made the sc2 branch.









The clan on sc2 is DSIDE


----------



## AblueXKRS

The Warhounds workers skin is hilarious. I want an option to turn in on permanently.

For those of you who are complaining you can't tell what race someone is by their worker:

1) Scout THEM, you lazy bum.
2) Click on the worker, read the name on the display bar.

End of problem.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I'm in the OCN group channel right now, name is SoulWager.


ok i get in there in 30 min..


----------



## Bolaz

Whats map hacking?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Whats map hacking?


using 3rd party sofware to see things your opponent is doing that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Whats map hacking?


When someone can see the whole map and what you do with no fog of war. There are a bunch of youtube videos up about it.


----------



## Bolaz

I would have never guess that you could get away with that when you are playing on there servers.


----------



## Yukss

i just play 2 games againts SoulWager.---- wiped the floor with me.. no reason to play more. he is far superior than me.. i can upload the replays if you want to


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> I would have never guess that you could get away with that when you are playing on there servers.


People do get banned for it quite often. I remember a couple months ago they banned thousands.


----------



## Bolaz

Well im glad that they at least try to keep up with it.


----------



## Bolaz

Well im glad that they at least try to keep up with it.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Here are the games vs Yukss if anyone's interested:

http://drop.sc/316912
http://drop.sc/316911


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> i just play 2 games againts SoulWager.---- wiped the floor with me.. no reason to play more. he is far superior than me.. i can upload the replays if you want to


but you used to masters remember.......


----------



## TranquilTempest

I just watched the replays of the games we played while following Yukss's camera. He was definitely maphacking, and is terrible at hiding it.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I just watched the replays of the games we just played while following Yukss's camera. He was definitely maphacking, and is terrible at hiding it.


dude.. that´s rude

i was not maphacking


----------



## Yukss

i will banned myself from this thread.. thats your opinion, and is ok,


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I just watched the replays of the games we played while following Yukss's camera. He was definitely maphacking, and is terrible at hiding it.


Agreed. Kind of crazy that he played these games in an effort to redeem himself but made it so obvious in the process.


----------



## burwij

Those replays are pretty hilarious.

It looks like he's making a conscious effort to hide his maphack in the Whirlwind game. There are a couple of times in the first 5-10 minutes where he'll look directly through the fog at his opponent's units or buildings and then look off into empty space 2 or 3 times - almost like he's trying to throw everyone off by randomly looking around the map. I didn't bother watching past the 6 or 8-minute mark, when he moves his 5 zealots + MSC away from his ramp and to the back of his base just before 3 stalkers poke in.

On a side note, who goes mass zealot in PvP?

The Daybreak game is even better. From what I could tell, he set up ~4 camera hotkeys around his opponent's base - one at the natural, one at the ramp, and two in the main where all of the production buildings are. He takes 3 or 4 long looks at units and tech throughout the game. I thought it was cute that he made a couple of observers.

Makes me giggle. I can't tell if he thought he was smart enough to talk his way out of it (the second time he was caught, I might add) or if he's been maphacking for so long that he forgot how fog of war works for everyone else.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Tell me about camera hotkeys. I've been playing SC2 since it released (never competitively, though, Alex will tell you) and heard of them and seen them used a few times, but I've never found out how to make it happen myself. How do I set them up? What are some tips for and how to use them? Common hotkeys and such?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Tell me about camera hotkeys. I've been playing SC2 since it released (never competitively, though, Alex will tell you) and heard of them and seen them used a few times, but I've never found out how to make it happen myself. How do I set them up? What are some tips for and how to use them? Common hotkeys and such?


by default they're pretty hard to reach, most pros move the hotkey to f2-f6 or so, and change the assignment hotkey to shift instead of control. menu->hotkeys->global->camera->create location X and jump to location X.


----------



## squall325

It's kinda useless to try and investigate hackers by having a match against them coz they can easily not use the hacks to prove that they're not but when they play others, they'll get back to their old ways. BUT what's interesting and stupid at the same time is to use hacks while being investigated. That's just like stealing walking straight into the Eye of Sauron. LOL

Still gonna watch the replays though.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Tell me about camera hotkeys. I've been playing SC2 since it released (never competitively, though, Alex will tell you) and heard of them and seen them used a few times, but I've never found out how to make it happen myself. How do I set them up? What are some tips for and how to use them? Common hotkeys and such?


They're the function keys, I used to use F1-F4, but now i can't, so I haven't bothered to re-do them.

I believe the default is F6-F8. You use them like hotkeys, ctrl+F6 will set a link to your current screen location / map location. So when you press F6 it will instantly snap you there.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> There is more than one game as evidence. Could be a coincidence f it happened once or twice but not in like 6 games so far and spotted by several different people. It's rather blatant for anyone with basic understanding of the game.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> In the second game you blindly reinforce the wall with gateways and pylons as soon as your opponent gets baneling nest, but you don't do this in the other games. In the third game you build cannons in your mineral lines and start phoenixes after your opponent drops a spire. All this without any scouting. In all three games your macro does not look like master level play (supply blocks, floating tons of money).
Click to expand...

This

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I'm pretty sure there were hacks out that worked in HotS before they even released HotS. Anything that works in WoL 1.5 or later would work in HotS. I'm in master league, and his mechanics are bad enough that I'm confident I can beat him 100% of the time, even if I tell him my opening beforehand. If I didn't know he was a maphacker, it would be possible for him to win against me maybe, but if I know beforehand, i can avoid doing anything greedy or cheesy, and just win on mechanics.
> 
> 
> 
> ok beat me then
Click to expand...

So you're just gonna turn off your hacks now? Pfft. All the replays show you hacking, it's not even worth wasting time playing you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I just watched the replays of the games we played while following Yukss's camera. He was definitely maphacking, and is terrible at hiding it.


See?

We should add something to the OP / report him


----------



## jellybeans69

Simply post replays of his in TL shameboard will easy confirm that he's cheater.


----------



## Yukss

i will upload at leats 10 games (winning or losing) so i will confirm you guys im not a cheater.. that´s rude , about 10 members of this thread are now againts me.. even said to report me.. i have never ever tried to do something bad about anyone of this forum since i joined in 2008

ps, this is mainly a hardware related site, not blizzard site.. i know hacking is lame, but im not hacking, im not getting money of this (playing sc2) look at my carreer, never been an fantastic player, only master 2 season ago.. so whats the deal, my macro sucks, ok, but ppl gets masters by cannonrusihng , not skills at all


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> my macro sucks, ok, but ppl gets masters by *maphacking*, not skills at all











I've got macro that is far superior to yours, but I'm low diamond because 1: I don't understand HOTS yet, 2: I don't map-hack, 3: I suck.

I'm sorry, it is very rude to accuse someone of something, but all the evidence points towards you hacking. It is also very hard to prove your innocence, a clear conscious and ignoring us would be the best thing to do.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got macro that is far superior to yours, but I'm low diamond because 1: I don't understand HOTS yet, 2: I don't map-hack, 3: I suck.
> 
> I'm sorry, it is very rude to accuse someone of something, but all the evidence points towards you hacking. It is also very hard to prove your innocence, a clear conscious and ignoring us would be the best thing to do.


He tried being silent already. About 2 months really. Then he posted his diamond results and I nuked him. That gravy train has sailed.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got macro that is far superior to yours, but I'm low diamond because 1: I don't understand HOTS yet, 2: I don't map-hack, 3: I suck.
> 
> I'm sorry, it is very rude to accuse someone of something, but all the evidence points towards you hacking. It is also very hard to prove your innocence, a clear conscious and ignoring us would be the best thing to do.


that´s ok

here is a game i just play, feel free to whach it.. (old school 4 gate)

Área de Newkirk (10).zip 25k .zip file


----------



## jellybeans69

If you were not a cheater you wouldn't be so desperate to prove it, innocent person would have moved on ages ago. Only cheaters are "desperate" to prove their actualy not one.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> If you were not a cheater you wouldn't be so desperate to prove it, innocent person would have moved on ages ago.


agreed


----------



## TranquilTempest

The evidence for maphack is overwhelming, if you want anyone to believe you are legit, you're going to need solid evidence that you didn't get to masters by maphacking. Something like a solid 50% winrate against low masters players with every game recorded by a camera sitting behind you, looking over your shoulder.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got macro that is far superior to yours, but I'm low diamond because 1: I don't understand HOTS yet, 2: I don't map-hack, 3: I suck.
> 
> I'm sorry, it is very rude to accuse someone of something, but all the evidence points towards you hacking. It is also very hard to prove your innocence, a clear conscious and ignoring us would be the best thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> that´s ok
> 
> here is a game i just play, feel free to whach it.. (old school 4 gate)
> 
> Área de Newkirk (10).zip 25k .zip file
Click to expand...

Um, you beat a gold league protoss by doing a very sloppy 4 5 gate, and having bad understanding of protoss timings? Um, yeah.

Obviously you made it into the top 2% of North America by playing this well!

Also don't worry about making money in SC2. If you ever try, ha, good luck.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Tell me about camera hotkeys. I've been playing SC2 since it released (never competitively, though, Alex will tell you) and heard of them and seen them used a few times, but I've never found out how to make it happen myself. How do I set them up? What are some tips for and how to use them? Common hotkeys and such?


I believe the default keys to set camers are control f5 through f8. What you do is hit ctrl f5 and it will bind the location of the map you are viewing at the moment. Anytime you want to go back to that location you can just quicky hit f5. It's much quicker than screen scrolling or even clicking on the minimap.







Start off by using just 2 of them. 1 for you main base and 1 for your natural. It's a great habit to get into. I rebound mine to f2-f5.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got macro that is far superior to yours, but I'm low diamond because 1: I don't understand HOTS yet, 2: I don't map-hack, 3: I suck.
> 
> I'm sorry, it is very rude to accuse someone of something, but all the evidence points towards you hacking. It is also very hard to prove your innocence, a clear conscious and ignoring us would be the best thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> that´s ok
> 
> here is a game i just play, feel free to whach it.. (old school 4 gate)
> 
> Área de Newkirk (10).zip 25k .zip file
Click to expand...

No worker pairing.
9 probe was late, you had 135 minerals before the 1 minute mark.
as a result your 9 pylon is 9 seconds late
Your gold league opponent is doing better.
Still no worker pairing
12 gate, 13 gas, you'll have too much gas
pylon after cyber core->no zealot
lol a second gas, I thought you said you were fourgating
chrono on the warpgate, not the cybercore
AND THEN ON THE NEXUS
you have *NO*! idea what you are doing
you are NOT masters material
supply block at 26/26
COMEON
34/34
If your opponent doesn't hold
OMG 6 gates! (no one was canceled due to a stalker warping in)
lol what a dumb opponent (TOS?)

Do you even know how to protoss?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> by default they're pretty hard to reach, most pros move the hotkey to f2-f6 or so, and change the assignment hotkey to shift instead of control. menu->hotkeys->global->camera->create location X and jump to location X.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> They're the function keys, I used to use F1-F4, but now i can't, so I haven't bothered to re-do them.
> 
> I believe the default is F6-F8. You use them like hotkeys, ctrl+F6 will set a link to your current screen location / map location. So when you press F6 it will instantly snap you there.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I believe the default keys to set camers are control f5 through f8. What you do is hit ctrl f5 and it will bind the location of the map you are viewing at the moment. Anytime you want to go back to that location you can just quicky hit f5. It's much quicker than screen scrolling or even clicking on the minimap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start off by using just 2 of them. 1 for you main base and 1 for your natural. It's a great habit to get into. I rebound mine to f2-f5.


Thanks guys!








Definitely gonna try these out when I get home today.


----------



## HometownHero

Uh, what? Yukks is a maphacker? Can someone give me a TLDR?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> by default they're pretty hard to reach, most pros move the hotkey to f2-f6 or so, and change the assignment hotkey to shift instead of control. menu->hotkeys->global->camera->create location X and jump to location X.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> They're the function keys, I used to use F1-F4, but now i can't, so I haven't bothered to re-do them.
> 
> I believe the default is F6-F8. You use them like hotkeys, ctrl+F6 will set a link to your current screen location / map location. So when you press F6 it will instantly snap you there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I believe the default keys to set camers are control f5 through f8. What you do is hit ctrl f5 and it will bind the location of the map you are viewing at the moment. Anytime you want to go back to that location you can just quicky hit f5. It's much quicker than screen scrolling or even clicking on the minimap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start off by using just 2 of them. 1 for you main base and 1 for your natural. It's a great habit to get into. I rebound mine to f2-f5.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely gonna try these out when I get home today.
Click to expand...

want some help







?


----------



## 13321G4

3rd (ish) to last season of WOL YuKsS went bronze silver plat diamond in a very fast pace
A while after YuKsS hit masters someone mentioned a replay of his in which he suspected maphacking, a few of us looked at that replay (and another one that was given a moment later) and agreed that there was maphacking involved.

Time passed and then a few days ago YuKsS mentioned he had hit masters again in HOTS. Anti!! then asked if he was still maphacking. YuKsS denies, we find more replays that point towards maphacking.

YuKsS posts a replay of him, as masters, four gating, in which he did so much that had nothing to do with four gating.

Verdict: Maphacker with very bad macro and bad understanding of the game.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> 3rd (ish) to last season of WOL YuKsS went bronze silver plat diamond in a very fast pace
> A while after YuKsS hit masters someone mentioned a replay of his in which he suspected maphacking, a few of us looked at that replay (and another one that was given a moment later) and agreed that there was maphacking involved.
> 
> Time passed and then a few days ago YuKsS mentioned he had hit masters again in HOTS. Anti!! then asked if he was still maphacking. YuKsS denies, we find more replays that point towards maphacking.
> 
> YuKsS posts a replay of him, as masters, four gating, in which he did so much that had nothing to do with four gating.
> 
> Verdict: Maphacker with very bad macro and bad understanding of the game.


Thanks, thats a shame he succumbed to that crap.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Uh, what? Yukks is a maphacker? Can someone give me a TLDR?


Hm well we went through a bunch of his past replays, suspecting map-hacks. We found him obviously looking through fog-of-war at his opponent at key times through-out all the games. His mechanics, execution, timings, micro and macro are not that of a master-league player (which he still claims to be).

And of course, he denies the fact that he is hacking despite the over-whelming evidence.

Replays:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> http://drop.sc/302302


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dng25*
> 
> http://drop.sc/302304


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> http://drop.sc/316912
> http://drop.sc/316911


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Área de Newkirk (10).zip 25k .zip file


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> No worker pairing.
> 9 probe was late, you had 135 minerals before the 1 minute mark.
> as a result your 9 pylon is 9 seconds late
> Your gold league opponent is doing better.
> Still no worker pairing
> 12 gate, 13 gas, you'll have too much gas
> pylon after cyber core->no zealot
> lol a second gas, I thought you said you were fourgating
> chrono on the warpgate, not the cybercore
> AND THEN ON THE NEXUS
> you have *NO*! idea what you are doing
> you are NOT masters material
> supply block at 26/26
> COMEON
> 34/34
> If your opponent doesn't hold
> OMG 6 gates! (no one was canceled due to a stalker warping in)
> lol what a dumb opponent (TOS?)
> 
> Do you even know how to protoss?


well, that was a good comentary of my gameplay.. maybe i can learn a little from you, and i almost have 4 k games played, mostly 1v1.. so if you say im hacker that´s ok.. and i did not hit master in hots. i wont defend myself anymore. so is well said here, im a hacker.. so is cool. i wont "hack" again


----------



## HometownHero

Yeah, from the two I watched its pretty obvious. And he doesnt play like any masters player I've seen.


----------



## Bolaz

Anyone care to teach a noob playing terran a couple of things here and there?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely gonna try these out when I get home today.


Also may I suggest watching Day[9] #252 if you haven't already? It's a great video going over lots of mechanics of the game and he goes in depth a bit about the camera locations. I JUST watched the video a few weeks ago and boy I was doing everything wrong this whole time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Anyone care to teach a noob playing terran a couple of things here and there?


What level are ya? I'm only a plat/diamond level player but I can maybe teach you a few build orders and stuff. Also suggest watching the video mentioned above.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Also may I suggest watching Day[9] #252 if you haven't already? It's a great video going over lots of mechanics of the game and he goes in depth a bit about the camera locations. I JUST watched the video a few weeks ago and boy I was doing everything wrong this whole time.
> What level are ya? I'm only a plat/diamond level player but I can maybe teach you a few build orders and stuff. Also suggest watching the video mentioned above.


Im gonna have to wait to get home to watch the videos since im at work. But yeah man i would really appreciate it if you could give me some guidance on what to do and what to look for when playing against someone since i am all over the place lol

Im a bronze player btw


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Im gonna have to wait to get home to watch the videos since im at work. But yeah man i would really appreciate it if you could give me some guidance on what to do and what to look for when playing against someone since i am all over the place lol
> 
> Im a bronze player btw


Also go watch filtersc's tutorials on YouTube. He's a really good teacher, masters on NA. His tutorials are the sole reason I got into gold so quickly even though I've not played RTS before a couple months ago.

http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Also go watch filtersc's tutorials on YouTube. He's a really good teacher, masters on NA. His tutorials are the sole reason I got into gold so quickly even though I've not played RTS before a couple months ago.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc


Nice! I would check it out tonight and update you!


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Im gonna have to wait to get home to watch the videos since im at work. But yeah man i would really appreciate it if you could give me some guidance on what to do and what to look for when playing against someone since i am all over the place lol
> 
> Im a bronze player btw


What is your name and character code?


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> What is your name and character code?


Bolaz character code 958


----------



## NewHighScore

Okie added you.







I'll message you next time you're on at the same time as me.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Okie added you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll message you next time you're on at the same time as me.


Sweet! tahnks man. I'll probbaly get on later on tonight


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> No worker pairing.
> 9 probe was late, you had 135 minerals before the 1 minute mark.
> as a result your 9 pylon is 9 seconds late
> Your gold league opponent is doing better.
> Still no worker pairing
> 12 gate, 13 gas, you'll have too much gas
> pylon after cyber core->no zealot
> lol a second gas, I thought you said you were fourgating
> chrono on the warpgate, not the cybercore
> AND THEN ON THE NEXUS
> you have *NO*! idea what you are doing
> you are NOT masters material
> supply block at 26/26
> COMEON
> 34/34
> If your opponent doesn't hold
> OMG 6 gates! (no one was canceled due to a stalker warping in)
> lol what a dumb opponent (TOS?)
> 
> Do you even know how to protoss?


Did you post him on teamliquid yet? It would be better if it was someone who was here for the first time as well to get the whole story out there. Plus he just admitted it so thats damning evidence right there. Even though he said he is going to stop, come on now. He did it once, got caught, did it again, got caught... you know whats coming next.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Did you post him on teamliquid yet? It would be better if it was someone who was here for the first time as well to get the whole story out there. Plus he just admitted it so thats damning evidence right there. Even though he said he is going to stop, come on now. He did it once, got caught, did it again, got caught... you know whats coming next.


what i said
Quote:


> so is well said here, im a hacker.. so is cool. i wont "hack" again


what you said
Quote:


> Plus he just admitted it so thats damning evidence right there. Even though he said he is going to stop, come on now. He did it once, got caught, did it again, got caught... you know whats coming next.


im NOT adminting anything.. do you know how sarcastic works ??

i will post some evidences, i need a tripod to set the camera, not 50games as requested but yeah at least 10 games.. well i need time to do it. i work and i have a family.

if i cant find a tripod or set the camera i will post some games againts dimonds or masters.. no matter if i lose. i will do my best to improve my macro and responding.. is very annoying being called as hacker, i mostly play bf3 (and all bf before it) and i hate hackers like aimboters and stuff like that and i know how lame is that.. im admiting and regular player who got masters 2 season ago, so what? ppl get masters by cannonrushing or 6 pooling.. ? and is dann game, i play sc since BW (im 30 years old.. and not a kid) i have never ever acuse anyone here about anything releted with games, i joined this forum years ago to get and share info about hardware which a love the most.. so in this part of the forum is awkward for me the whole thing


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> what i said
> what you said
> im NOT adminting anything.. do you know how sarcastic works ??
> 
> i will post some evidences, i need a tripod to set the camera, not 50games as requested but yeah at least 10 games.. well i need time to do it. i work and i have a family.
> 
> if i cant find a tripod or set the camera i will post some games againts dimonds or masters.. no matter if i lose. i will do my best to improve my macro and responding.. is very annoying being called as hacker, i mostly play bf3 (and all bf before it) and i hate hackers like aimboters and stuff like that and i know how lame is that.. im admiting and regular player who got masters 2 season ago, so what? ppl get masters by cannonrushing or 6 pooling.. ? and is dann game, i play sc since BW (im 30 years old.. and not a kid) i have never ever acuse anyone here about anything releted with games, i joined this forum years ago to get and share info about hardware which a love the most.. so in this part of the forum is awkward for me the whole thing


All of these words are meaningless. You can do the camera thing, but what about the games you do not record? That is silly.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> what i said
> what you said
> im NOT adminting anything.. do you know how sarcastic works ??
> 
> i will post some evidences, i need a tripod to set the camera, not 50games as requested but yeah at least 10 games.. well i need time to do it. i work and i have a family.
> 
> if i cant find a tripod or set the camera i will post some games againts dimonds or masters.. no matter if i lose. i will do my best to improve my macro and responding.. is very annoying being called as hacker, i mostly play bf3 (and all bf before it) and i hate hackers like aimboters and stuff like that and i know how lame is that.. im admiting and regular player who got masters 2 season ago, so what? ppl get masters by cannonrushing or 6 pooling.. ? and is dann game, i play sc since BW (im 30 years old.. and not a kid) i have never ever acuse anyone here about anything releted with games, i joined this forum years ago to get and share info about hardware which a love the most.. so in this part of the forum is awkward for me the whole thing
> 
> 
> 
> All of these words are meaningless. You can do the camera thing, but what about the games you do not record? That is silly.
Click to expand...

If he can record one ladder game against a masters and win, I'll be convinced.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Okie added you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll message you next time you're on at the same time as me.


I just logged into the game and i didnt get the invite, we were having this problem the other day. i think it has to do with what are you in or something


----------



## DoomDash

TvT is so hard, but so good.


----------



## General123

So my game crashed.. twice.. during ones placements..so now I am in bronze... It really sucks considering I won the other 3 games.








PS: It turned out it was a stupid issue of me not opening Precision X so my fans didnt go above 20%.. you know the rest.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> I just logged into the game and i didnt get the invite, we were having this problem the other day. i think it has to do with what are you in or something


If it's not a real friend ID request you won't get any notification. You'll have to wait till I message you and then you can add me. I was afk for the past couple hours I see I missed you by about an hour.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> If it's not a real friend ID request you won't get any notification. You'll have to wait till I message you and then you can add me. I was afk for the past couple hours I see I missed you by about an hour.


lol im here, i actually just got done watching the video you told me about earlier


----------



## mylilpony

Midmasters with xbox controller anyone? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404953


----------



## Costfree

Where would one get info to understand the game better?? I play protoss and would like a better understanding o what to build to counter


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> So my game crashed.. twice.. during ones placements..so now I am in bronze... It really sucks considering I won the other 3 games. sozo.gif
> PS: It turned out it was a stupid issue of me not opening Precision X so my fans didnt go above 20%.. you know the rest.


I purposely lost a few games to be placed in bronze hihihih.. but it didn't last long. Got promoted after 4 games







.. now I'm in danger of going up again if I keep winning. I really like bronze I don't have to stress while I play


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Where would one get info to understand the game better?? I play protoss and would like a better understanding o what to build to counter


Watching Day9's casts on youtube is an OK start... then probably find a good player that will help you out


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> Midmasters with xbox controller anyone? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404953


lol sauce!


----------



## jellybeans69

Yeah that's almost as awesome as SC on N64








Feel free to add meh i've been playing bit over a week but i'm currently in gold








Eu/Jellysmelleh.368/zerg


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Did you post him on teamliquid yet? It would be better if it was someone who was here for the first time as well to get the whole story out there. Plus he just admitted it so thats damning evidence right there. Even though he said he is going to stop, come on now. He did it once, got caught, did it again, got caught... you know whats coming next.
> 
> 
> 
> what i said
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> so is well said here, im a hacker.. so is cool. i wont "hack" again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what you said
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus he just admitted it so thats damning evidence right there. Even though he said he is going to stop, come on now. He did it once, got caught, did it again, got caught... you know whats coming next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> im NOT adminting anything.. do you know how sarcastic works ??
> 
> i will post some evidences, i need a tripod to set the camera, not 50games as requested but yeah at least 10 games.. well i need time to do it. i work and i have a family.
> 
> if i cant find a tripod or set the camera i will post some games againts dimonds or masters.. no matter if i lose. i will do my best to improve my macro and responding.. is very annoying being called as hacker, i mostly play bf3 (and all bf before it) and i hate hackers like aimboters and stuff like that and i know how lame is that.. im admiting and regular player who got masters 2 season ago, so what? ppl get masters by cannonrushing or 6 pooling.. ? and is dann game, i play sc since BW (im 30 years old.. and not a kid) i have never ever acuse anyone here about anything releted with games, i joined this forum years ago to get and share info about hardware which a love the most.. so in this part of the forum is awkward for me the whole thing
Click to expand...

You just like looking at the enemy base / army exactly, without scouting?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> If he can record one ladder game against a masters and win, I'll be convinced.


At least 2 or 3, 1 could be a fluke. (lol)


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> I purposely lost a few games to be placed in bronze hihihih.. but it didn't last long. Got promoted after 4 games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. now I'm in danger of going up again if I keep winning. I really like bronze I don't have to stress while I play


Yeah that is true but I was trapped in Bronze the first couple of seasons going against plat in WoL and I am just afraid that will happen again.. They hate giving me promotions lol.


----------



## HometownHero

I'm not sure if HoTS takes into account your WoL rank, but I got put in silver after my placement matches. I then won 5-7 games in a row and got bumped to gold and then plat just after those 7 games. So it seems like its pretty quick, unless it does take into account your WoL rank (I was plat forever ago in WoL).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Yeah that is true but I was trapped in Bronze the first couple of seasons going against plat in WoL and I am just afraid that will happen again.. They hate giving me promotions lol.


Understanding the ranking system would clear that for you. You were bronze playing plats and winning. You were winning enough that the system wasn't sure if you could beat even diamonds. So it grilled you to see where you truly belonged. Soon it figured out plat was a fitting place for your skill level for the time being. Its that simple. Just keep in mind that if you are winning the majority of your games and havent been bumped its because your mmr is raising with each win.


----------



## Ergates

Yesterday Dragon played on EU server for the first time since the NA server was down for maintenance, and he went straight to plat after his placement matches.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> Yesterday Dragon played on EU server for the first time since the NA server was down for maintenance, and he went straight to plat after his placement matches.


No one gets placed higher than platinum after their first 5 placement matches on any single region since hots release. It is a way to thin out the ones who really arent qualified to be above plat. It is a work your way up setup.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Well I finished last season as high gold and initially placed into silver in HotS. 20 games later I'm in platinum for the first time!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Well I finished last season as high gold and initially placed into silver in HotS. 20 games later I'm in platinum for the first time!


Congrats!!

Side note. I was only referring to the 5 placement matches for hots on each server.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> No one gets placed higher than platinum after their first 5 placement matches on any single region since hots release. It is a way to thin out the ones who really arent qualified to be above plat. It is a work your way up setup.


Friends got into diamond in team mm though after placements.


----------



## Bolaz

Someone posted yesterday or told me to go to a certain youtube channel yesterday to learn Terran builds and i cannot find the post since it got lost within the whole Map Hacking drama. Anyone know whats the name of it or does anyone have the link?

Not the Day9 Video, i already watch that









Thanks!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Well I finished last season as high gold and initially placed into silver in HotS. 20 games later I'm in platinum for the first time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats!!
> 
> Side note. I was only referring to the 5 placement matches for hots on each server.
Click to expand...

it doesnt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> No one gets placed higher than platinum after their first 5 placement matches on any single region since hots release. It is a way to thin out the ones who really arent qualified to be above plat. It is a work your way up setup.
> 
> 
> 
> Friends got into diamond in team mm though after placements.
Click to expand...

he was talking about 1v1's


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Congrats!!
> 
> Side note. I was only referring to the 5 placement matches for hots on each server.


Thanks. Regarding side note, I wasn't implying otherwise. Just sharing my excitement.

On an unrelated note, has anyone else found SC2 to be extremely sensitive to GPU overclocks? I've had SC2 give me problems at far lower clocks than any other game/stress test/benchmark. Even had to forfeit a few ladder games because suddenly the card would refuse to run at 3D clocks, resulting in a constant ~10 FPS from the start of a match.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Someone posted yesterday or told me to go to a certain youtube channel yesterday to learn Terran builds and i cannot find the post since it got lost within the whole Map Hacking drama. Anyone know whats the name of it or does anyone have the link?
> 
> Not the Day9 Video, i already watch that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


I think that was the /filtersc youtube channel. Bronze to masters







.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I think that was the /filtersc youtube channel. Bronze to masters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That was it man! Thanks!

I'll be in game tonight


----------



## Ergates

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> No one gets placed higher than platinum after their first 5 placement matches on any single region since hots release. It is a way to thin out the ones who really arent qualified to be above plat. It is a work your way up setup.


That's right! Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise. It was funny to watch, though. Apposite to our own little map hacking story on here, perhaps?


----------



## revro

whats the deal with the warhounds, i am using starter edition and my wol and hots will be delivered tomorrow.
can you play with warhounds or is it for now only in us as i am in eu? i cant produce warhounds and my client is updated

thank you
revro


----------



## 13321G4

Warhounds were deemed to fill a position that was already filled by the marauder. It was also far too strong. It was removed from multiplayer.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> whats the deal with the warhounds, i am using starter edition and my wol and hots will be delivered tomorrow.
> can you play with warhounds or is it for now only in us as i am in eu? i cant produce warhounds and my client is updated
> 
> thank you
> revro


take a look at the datestamp on that announcement.


----------



## mylilpony

Not participating this round but thought you guys would like to know about the upcoming OCN starcraft 2 tournament. Different categories for different ranked players too so even if you're not a masters you can still play!

http://www.overclock.net/t/1377370/tournament-overclock-net-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-challenge-prizes-tbd

Probably don't want to maphack though


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Yeah that is true but I was trapped in Bronze the first couple of seasons going against plat in WoL and I am just afraid that will happen again.. They hate giving me promotions lol.


The ranking system has changed I believe... don't worry just go for it!! It is very unlikely that you will stay in bronze if you play consistently








I am trying to take it easy in silver league so I don't get promoted to gold LOL so I'm just practicing ridiculous builds every few games


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I'm trying to get the hard achievement on The Dig mission with the big drill, I have to destroy 50 Protoss structures. I guess I need to take the southeast mineral field as soon as possible, and I read that the north base is half easy to attack/destroy. But I got demoralized for now, hace to try later.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Uh, just float a rax for vision, and go to town w/ the drill.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

whats a rax? Will any floating building do?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mylilpony*
> 
> Not participating this round but thought you guys would like to know about the upcoming OCN starcraft 2 tournament. Different categories for different ranked players too so even if you're not a masters you can still play!
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1377370/tournament-overclock-net-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-challenge-prizes-tbd
> 
> Probably don't want to maphack though


I will be signing up.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> whats a rax? Will any floating building do?


rax = Barracks


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> whats a rax? Will any floating building do?


Barracks the big building you build those op T1 units in


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I built sent a barracks pretty early in the game, and it kept turning back when under fire, and the drill kept not shooting anything.

And by the time I have a large army, its still a total slaughter at either ramp, and especially because I have no airforce at all, and only marines for airdefense outside the base. I must have done the mission early.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I built sent a barracks pretty early in the game, and it kept turning back when under fire, and the drill kept not shooting anything.
> 
> And by the time I have a large army, its still a total slaughter at either ramp, and especially because I have no airforce at all, and only marines for airdefense outside the base. I must have done the mission early.


I'm sure there are plenty of guides online to walk you through the missions


----------



## burwij

That's one of the harder WoL achievements to get mainly because it comes up so early in the campaign. If you don't want to make a bunch of sacrificial barracks, just come back to it later once you have more tech to play with. Tank/Viking/Marine plus scans from an Orbital make it a joke. Throw down a couple of extra CCs in the corridor behind your main and you'll have scans for days.

On a side note, the level ends early if you manage to kill every Protoss on the map, lol.


----------



## Ergates

I suck so bad. Waa, whole bunch of games with my ass handed me on a plate. Need to try harder and understand how I'm getting it so wrong.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ergates*
> 
> I suck so bad. Waa, whole bunch of games with my ass handed me on a plate. Need to try harder and understand how I'm getting it so wrong.


You could probably post a replay or two for people here to analyze. Just make sure you're not using maphacks in the ones you upload


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> You could probably post a replay or two for people here to analyze. Just make sure you're not using maphacks in the ones you upload


imo posting replays is kinda pointless for analysis. Anyone can look at the replays themselves and see exactly what they did wrong. It's usually make more workers or stop quueing up, you were supply blocked, you didnt get upgrades, poor unit comp yada yada yada.

If you are diamond or higher it likely comes down to strategy or build order loss.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> imo posting replays is kinda pointless for analysis. Anyone can look at the replays themselves and see exactly what they did wrong. It's usually make more workers or stop quueing up, you were supply blocked, you didnt get upgrades, poor unit comp yada yada yada.
> 
> If you are diamond or higher it likely comes down to strategy or build order loss.


He implied that he doesn't understand what he is doing wrong.


----------



## DoomDash

5-0 in my Korean placements







.

Also, sweet!

http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/mollysnyder/lounge42.html?33341

Near me. I don't drink but I can certainly get down for some barcraft.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 5-0 in my Korean placements
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also, sweet!
> 
> http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/mollysnyder/lounge42.html?33341
> 
> Near me. I don't drink but I can certainly get down for some barcraft.


I don't drink either but my friend will be very happy to hear about this lol


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> He implied that he doesn't understand what he is doing wrong.


He also didn't mention if he is analyzing his own replays or not. My guess is he is not. 99% of the time people don't understand is when they aren't watching their replays.

on a related note here is a funny video but I'm sure the formula actually does work.


----------



## connectwise

I don't recognize any of those faces or names in that video. I want to learn and MY BODY IS READY. I just need to order hots and send him 40 dollars.


----------



## Ergates

I usually watch my replays, and I mostly know what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for the offer of help though, I'll definitely use it if I can't work out what I'm doing. Yesterday was just me being tired and off kilter.


----------



## jellybeans69

Heh had a game with my fellow mates/clan we play peepmode every evening and 1v1 everyone, played only one game in that koth but beat the king of hill aka master terran with 10p







, had no other choice as i prolly would have lost in macro game and 6p is too risky

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/386556420 , my game starts at ~8m


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Heh had a game with my fellow mates/clan we play peepmode every evening and 1v1 everyone, played only one game in that koth but beat the king of hill aka master terran with 10p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , had no other choice as i prolly would have lost in macro game and 6p is too risky
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/386556420 , my game starts at ~8m


"master" terran that goes command center before supply depot and doesn't wall?








hate to say it but this guy was trolling you, he was more like bronze-gold


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> "master" terran that goes command center before supply depot and doesn't wall?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hate to say it but this guy was trolling you, he was more like bronze-gold


He is master , he beat the every other gold/plat guy he played in previous games in that koth , all the previous games he went for standart reaper opening on zergs , he prolly wasn't expecting me to be any challenge for him. Also it would be unlikely to wall off for 10p








My guess he was expecting the 15h15p or 14/14 , 15p15h most zergs nowadays do.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> He is master , he beat the every other gold/plat guy he played in previous games in that koth , all the previous games he went for standart reaper opening on zergs , he prolly wasn't expecting me to be any challenge for him. Also it would be unlikely to wall off for 10p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess he was expecting the 15h15p or 14/14 , 15p15h most zergs nowadays do.


grats to your friend then, almost as epic as Life 6 pooling MC at MLG


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> I don't recognize any of those faces or names in that video. I want to learn and MY BODY IS READY. I just need to order hots and send him 40 dollars.


What? LOL you don't know who gretorp and rotterdam are? You sir need to watch more starcraft! I understand not knowing the others but those 2 are just absolutely famous. They are pretty much all the NASL(North American Star League) crew.


----------



## Anti!!

Sorry to whoever wanted to play me last night. I didnt get your message till after you dusconnected.


----------



## Anti!!

Sorry to whoever wanted to play me last night. I didnt get your message till after you disconnected.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> I don't recognize any of those faces or names in that video. I want to learn and MY BODY IS READY. I just need to order hots and send him 40 dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> What? LOL you don't know who gretorp and rotterdam are? You sir need to watch more starcraft! I understand not knowing the others but those 2 are just absolutely famous. They are pretty much all the NASL(North American Star League) crew.
Click to expand...

I'm not such a big fan of the NASL 4. They are an amazing team but it just doesn't click for me









Feel like there is too much circle jerking going on...
(patting each others back hoping to get a pat back, google it)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I'm not such a big fan of the NASL 4. They are an amazing team but it just doesn't click for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel like there is too much circle jerking going on...
> (patting each others back hoping to get a pat back, google it)


Rotterdam gives me the creeps anyway...


----------



## Bolaz

Does the stopwatch only show during replays? is there anyway to have it during game?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Also may I suggest watching Day[9] #252 if you haven't already? It's a great video going over lots of mechanics of the game and he goes in depth a bit about the camera locations. I JUST watched the video a few weeks ago and boy I was doing everything wrong this whole time.


Gonna watch that right now








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> want some help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Would love some :3
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> imo posting replays is kinda pointless for analysis. Anyone can look at the replays themselves and see exactly what they did wrong. It's usually make more workers or stop quueing up, you were supply blocked, you didnt get upgrades, poor unit comp yada yada yada.
> 
> If you are diamond or higher it likely comes down to strategy or build order loss.


No... If you don't know what you're doing wrong, you can't go back and look at it. Sure, maybe you can catch the big overt mistakes, but you can lose on subtleties, and those are a lot harder to spot, especially the less experience you have. (i speek engleesh gud)


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Gonna watch that right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would love some :3
> No... If you don't know what you're doing wrong, you can't go back and look at it. Sure, maybe you can catch the big overt mistakes, but you can lose on subtleties, and those are a lot harder to spot, especially the less experience you have. (i speek engleesh gud)


Hey dude add me too Bolaz code 958


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Does the stopwatch only show during replays? is there anyway to have it during game?


Yeah, just enable it in options.


----------



## General123

I finally started getting back up in rank. Got into silver and then 2 games latter I play a diamond and rofl stomp him now I am in gold







Thank God it is no where near as broken as I remember it down here.
For those who are wondering what I am talking about..


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> So my game crashed.. twice.. during ones placements..so now I am in bronze... It really sucks considering I won the other 3 games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: It turned out it was a stupid issue of me not opening Precision X so my fans didnt go above 20%.. you know the rest.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I forgot how to find my account code... >_< ....................


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I forgot how to find my account code... >_< ....................


Use your serial code. My account was recently hacked some how and I forgot everything BUT had the serial so I got it back.


----------



## NewHighScore

Anyone Diamond, Masters or GM Terrans here that have a solid build order/gameplan for TvP. I'm having a TON of trouble against toss as I am primarily a harassment style player and I'm finding any kind of early/midgame harass is so easily shut down by protoss. I am purely lost in this matchup and it is becoming extremely frustrating for me.

Not to mention 80% of the time toss does cheesy allins.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Anyone Diamond, Masters or GM Terrans here that have a solid build order/gameplan for TvP. I'm having a TON of trouble against toss as I am primarily a harassment style player and I'm finding any kind of early/midgame harass is so easily shut down by protoss. I am purely lost in this matchup and it is becoming extremely frustrating for me.
> 
> Not to mention 80% of the time toss does cheesy allins.


http://www.gosubuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-bombers-reaper-fe/


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Use your serial code. My account was recently hacked some how and I forgot everything BUT had the serial so I got it back.


What? I just want the 3-digit number code for my character...


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> What? I just want the 3-digit number code for my character...


go to the friends list->add friend->character friend


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> http://www.gosubuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-bombers-reaper-fe/


Thanks dude. Looks quite difficult to execute but definitely something to try..... but what to do about 1 base allins? I'm particularly running into blink stalker msc allin and have no clue how to stop it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> What? I just want the 3-digit number code for my character...


Click on friends, add friend, character friend and your 3-4 digit code will show at the bottom of the little popup menu.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Thanks dude. Looks quite difficult to execute but definitely something to try..... but what to do about 1 base allins? I'm particularly running into blink stalker msc allin and have no clue how to stop it.


make bunkers, the reaper should allow you to see that he hasn't expanded, which is a giveaway that it's some kind of 1base allin. Gas timing is an indicator of what kind of allin, though not as reliable as it was in WoL. If he's getting gas early, make sure he's making a MS core, if he's not it's probably proxy stargate or something similarly silly.

If you're having a lot of trouble with a specific allin, have a practice partner do it to you 40 games in a row, trying small variations in timing and bunker placement.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> make bunkers, the reaper should allow you to see that he hasn't expanded, which is a giveaway that it's some kind of 1base allin. Gas timing is an indicator of what kind of allin, though not as reliable as it was in WoL. If he's getting gas early, make sure he's making a MS core, if he's not it's probably proxy stargate or something similarly silly.
> 
> If you're having a lot of trouble with a specific allin, have a practice partner do it to you 40 games in a row, trying small variations in timing and bunker placement.


This is a logical reply.


----------



## FrankoNL

Back to SC2 after WoL. Now in HOTS. Starting protoss again.

Haha so much to learn again after 3 months of not playing.


----------



## Sainesk

whenever I close in on like 1 game from promotion to diamond the matchmaking goes all trollmode on me... matched against masters more than once, didn't realize I have to beat masters to be eligible for diamond







so frustrated...



Spoiler: How I feel every time I get owned by masters...


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Back to SC2 after WoL. Now in HOTS. Starting protoss again.
> 
> Haha so much to learn again after 3 months of not playing.


To be quite honest I don't think I've produced a single Swarm Host or Viper in a ladder game yet :X

I've used the Hydra speed upgrades though...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> whenever I close in on like 1 game from promotion to diamond the matchmaking goes all trollmode on me... matched against masters more than once, didn't realize I have to beat masters to be eligible for diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so frustrated...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: How I feel every time I get owned by masters...


It puts you against masters to see if diamond is the correct placement. lol Is that hard to see people!!!!!









@MKUL7R4

Vipers are awesome!!! you have got to get used to them. You treat them kinda like the way i used to treat infestors when they first came out. You can only improve if you get good with them. They make a colossus or siege line a joke if microed properly. VIpers that is.


----------



## jellybeans69

So are SH's especially against toss


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> go to the friends list->add friend->character friend


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Click on friends, add friend, character friend and your 3-4 digit code will show at the bottom of the little popup menu.


Thanks guys!









So I'm AblueXKRS.183

Feel free to add me


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of guides online to walk you through the missions


THat mission is a lost cause for gold achivement without air power. Next time I'll leave that mission later. 5 missions left, and I have most all achievements on the rest. Can't wait to start hots


----------



## MenacingTuba

Playing the Zerg campaign...sigh, so sick of being forced to start over with minimal units and being forced to gradually unlock more units and upgrades.

Not a fan of the Zerg since they ruined the hydralisk spitting noise from SC1.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

My injects and macro became so bad after playing campaign!

I'm really enjoying the viper, it helps a lot in those situations that previously made zerg so frustrating where it felt like you can't do any damage no matter how many armies you throw at them. Still having a lot of trouble with my ZvT though.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> My injects and macro became so bad after playing campaign!
> 
> I'm really enjoying the viper, it helps a lot in those situations that previously made zerg so frustrating where it felt like you can't do any damage no matter how many armies you throw at them. Still having a lot of trouble with my ZvT though.


roach hydra viper owns mech.. thats all i can tell you as I don't play zerg but when I go mech that is what I usually die to. Them damn clouds


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MenacingTuba*
> 
> Playing the Zerg campaign...sigh, so sick of being forced to start over with minimal units and being forced to gradually unlock more units and upgrades.
> 
> Not a fan of the Zerg since they ruined the hydralisk spitting noise from SC1.


Beat the campaign on casual, then play it again with the master archives.


----------



## Betsy601

Cliched dialogue I thought but top-notch voice acting. And, of course, it's Starcraft.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> To be quite honest I don't think I've produced a single Swarm Host or Viper in a ladder game yet :X
> 
> I've used the Hydra speed upgrades though...


If you don't, mech will be very hard!! Seriously vipers and swarm hosts are fantastic vs mech. Trust me I'm a mech player.

I'm pretty excited about my new attitude for SCII on my second time around. I'm looking to actually improve myself in more ways than just experience and mechanics, now I'm trying to be more thoughtful about my approach. Really trying to fix my mistakes and become better at analyzing my opponents.


----------



## DoomDash

Just thought I'd share this video, its old but now extended:




That speech at the end really hits home for me. I really feel like a part of something special being in the Starcraft community. Friends / Co-workers probably don't understand why I am so into this game, and why I think working is such a waste of time, and that about sums it up. Can I make a living off this game? Nah, but I won't be satisfied until I can make use of my passion and live off it somehow.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just thought I'd share this video, its old but now extended:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That speech at the end really hits home for me. I really feel like a part of something special being in the Starcraft community. Friends / Co-workers probably don't understand why I am so into this game, and why I think working is such a waste of time, and that about sums it up. Can I make a living off this game? Nah, but I won't be satisfied until I can make use of my passion and live off it somehow.


Better than any movie


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Can special attack orders be chained together like reg. attack?


----------



## Anti!!

http://drop.sc/319075

Last placement match. My mechanics were terrrrrrriiiibbblllllle. still want masters though..

When ever the game gets difficult i completely stop hotkeying my army...


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Can special attack orders be chained together like reg. attack?


Special attack orders?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> When ever the game gets difficult i completely stop hotkeying my army...


>Zerg


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just thought I'd share this video, its old but now extended:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That speech at the end really hits home for me. I really feel like a part of something special being in the Starcraft community. Friends / Co-workers probably don't understand why I am so into this game, and why I think working is such a waste of time, and that about sums it up. Can I make a living off this game? Nah, but I won't be satisfied until I can make use of my passion and live off it somehow.


Funny because when I started a new job when WoL came out, I overheard coworkers talking about SC2 and laddering levels. Even the girls played it. I didn't.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Special attack orders?


with hot keys, like if hold shift+a and M1 a group works, would hold shift+r and M1 all the targets work to snipe a group with....a sniper using their special attack


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> with hot keys, like if hold shift+a and M1 a group works, would hold shift+r and M1 all the targets work to snipe a group with....a sniper using their special attack


???


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Can special attack orders be chained together like reg. attack?


Yes. Just keep holding shift and give the order repeatedly. It's great for dumping a load of snipes on an enemy, getting all of your BCs to yamato a pile of enemies, or even things as simple as telling a tank to move and go into siege mode once it arrives at its destination.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

it works, good

In the challenges I can get gold 10 kills in 1st, 14 2nd, 13 in 3rd. I've cheated by watching others before, I don't want to for the rest.

I don't like the 1st 2nd-level challenge with its time limit and trying to spread out the snipers+flyers and give all the orders


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> If you don't, mech will be very hard!! Seriously vipers and swarm hosts are fantastic vs mech. Trust me I'm a mech player.
> 
> I'm pretty excited about my new attitude for SCII on my second time around. I'm looking to actually improve myself in more ways than just experience and mechanics, now I'm trying to be more thoughtful about my approach. Really trying to fix my mistakes and become better at analyzing my opponents.


terran brofist


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> terran brofist


The few, the proud, the Terran!









Oh and PS I beat my first Korean master recently. I've put up some good fights vs others.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The few, the proud, the Terran!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and PS I beat my first Korean master recently. I've put up some good fights vs others.


Not sure I agree with meching though. Seems too...****ty. Mine + Bio is way better v Z.

TvT youre kinda forced into Mech depending on map but I hate playing it. Too immobile, inflexible.

TvP is just a ****fest.


----------



## Bolaz

I finally good at having my second command center by 3:45 and building about 15 barracks right at 9:30. Now im tryung to figure out what to learn as far as teching up and what else to build


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Not sure I agree with meching though. Seems too...****ty. Mine + Bio is way better v Z.
> 
> TvT youre kinda forced into Mech depending on map but I hate playing it. Too immobile, inflexible.
> 
> TvP is just a ****fest.


I'm pretty happy with mech for now. I will see how the first balance patches turn out, because I think widow mines and speedivacs will be slightly changed. Being a mech player that won't change much for me. Also hoping for some sort of mech buff in TvP. I think I may get that wish someday. TvP is really hard for me regardless of my build.

I'm obsessed with siege tanks that's all I know. When I quit I would have thoughts of BOOM the siege tank makes when it fires. So manly.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm pretty happy with mech for now. I will see how the first balance patches turn out, because I think widow mines and speedivacs will be slightly changed. Being a mech player that won't change much for me. Also hoping for some sort of mech buff in TvP. I think I may get that wish someday. TvP is really hard for me regardless of my build.
> 
> I'm obsessed with siege tanks that's all I know. When I quit I would have thoughts of BOOM the siege tank makes when it fires. So manly.


Im obssesed with with ultras and the swarm! !


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Im obssesed with with ultras and the swarm! !


For the swarm!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Already rank 10 in diamond. Last game I 6 pooled a Protoss on Neo Planet S







His fault though, he scouted it and still went Nexus first and didn't wall lol.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

How do I assign a barracks/factory a hot key ?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> For the swarm!


Fist in the air!!


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> How do I assign a barracks/factory a hot key ?


CTRL + 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc etc....


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> How do I assign a barracks/factory a hot key ?


Study this

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hotkeys

I was a total noob in Warcraft 3 and almost never used hotkeys. Once I started using hotkeys for EVERYTHING in Starcraft 2, I got about 100x better

And apparently I'm still learning, I didn't realize you could select units and press Shift+# to add them to a pre-existing control group...the more you know...


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> terran brofist


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> For the swarm!


For A-move Aiur!


----------



## jellybeans69

So terranz which setup do you hate the most from zerg when going for bio ball of maraud/marines with a tank or two mixed in?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

ZvT has been my worst matchup for a while now and it's gotten even worse in HotS. I've been playing a lot of tank/hellbat/mine compositions lately and have yet to survive a single game after the first real engagement. How are people dealing with this composition?

Lings melt to hellbats, roaches get destroyed by tanks in decent numbers if I don't have vipers out yet, hydras also die with their low health, and mutas seem risky with the number of mines they can make.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> ZvT has been my worst matchup for a while now and it's gotten even worse in HotS. I've been playing a lot of tank/hellbat/mine compositions lately and have yet to survive a single game after the first real engagement. How are people dealing with this composition?
> 
> Lings melt to hellbats, roaches get destroyed by tanks in decent numbers if I don't have vipers out yet, hydras also die with their low health, and mutas seem risky with the number of mines they can make.


i'm only diamond but ZvT is my best matchup. I've won a lot of matches with early sling/bane aggression (Some would call that cheese I suppose) into mutas. also keep scouting, sacrifice an overlord if you have to. if they are going mech go for roach/hydra/viper and sling/bane/muta/infestor vs bio.

DoomDash can probably further enlighten us on how to beat Terran since he is a Master Terran player


----------



## sepheroth003

I'm starting to get a little confidence. I did two unranked matches just now. Put me against rank 1 bronze and rank 43 bronze. Both games were a landslide. Completely dominated them. Soon maybe Ill get enough confidence to do ranked matches.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I'm starting to get a little confidence. I did two unranked matches just now. Put me against rank 1 bronze and rank 43 bronze. Both games were a landslide. Completely dominated them. Soon maybe Ill get enough confidence to do ranked matches.


People in bronze don't tend to expand until the 20 minute mark and they never attack you. They just turtle until their main base is mined out then attack, don't quite get the logic. Either that or they do something completely ridiculous like go only thors, the thors seem to be a favourite


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> People in bronze don't tend to expand until the 20 minute mark and they never attack you. They just turtle until their main base is mined out then attack, don't quite get the logic. Either that or they do something completely ridiculous like go only thors, the thors seem to be a favourite


Haha ya they didnt expand a lot. In the second game I scouted they were expanding super early, so I did as well. I actually won a game with mostly thors lol. I figured they were going terran bio.

My problem so far is 1v1 seems like it will bore me quickly. Would rather have people to play with.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Haha ya they didnt expand a lot. In the second game I scouted they were expanding super early, so I did as well. I actually won a game with mostly thors lol. I figured they were going terran bio.
> 
> My problem so far is 1v1 seems like it will bore me quickly. Would rather have people to play with.


That's my problem, it's not really fun playing casual 1v1s unless it's against a friend on Skype or something but none of my friends play Starcraft. I get too anxious and worried that I'll do badly if I play ladder, ladder anxiety is so annoying! I have pretty solid mechanics from playing vs AI and custom games. I've got the 11 minute roach max down to a T so I can stomp people if I get zerg in monobattles


----------



## DoomDash

1v1 is the only thing that isn't boring for me. If you have ladder anxiety you can do unranked or play on another region.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 1v1 is the only thing that isn't boring for me. If you have ladder anxiety you can do unranked or play on another region.


The game still records your unranked performance... it just doesn't give you ladder points.


----------



## sepheroth003

Well I decided to do a ranked ladder. It put me against a rank 8 platinum... uh what? I lost, pretty handily. Never had a successful attack.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Well I decided to do a ranked ladder. It put me against a rank 8 platinum... uh what? I lost, pretty handily. Never had a successful attack.


You've gotta start somewhere







I just got into platinum after fighting through the league, and about 11 games latter Bronze to Platinum(last game was vs a high diamond and I won so I should be promoting again soon). The ranking system is SO much better then how it first was in WOL, I was trapped in bronze forever. I would play through all of your placement matches and see where they put you. Once you get the confidence just to click 1v1 and search just wait and have fun! After the game, win or loss, open your replay and look at what you did wrong and where you can improve. And honestly, there is NO pressure in bronze, AT ALL. It is a great place to learn the game.


----------



## Anti!!

Yea, every single person has suffered from ladder anxiety. Especially when one gets promoted to a status they have never achieved before.

Also unranked does keep a mmr basically but I believe it doesnt affect your ranked mmr. Im not sure but it seems that both of mine have a different opinion as to what skill opponent I should face.

Lastly change region and sweep anxiety away.

One thing I had to do before region was just decide to not care what anyone else thought about my league placement. So, I battled through plat even just leaving certain games in the middle as to spite my worry or anxiety and then I look up and im in top diamond consistently last season.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I get anxiety because I know if I get matched to a Terran I'm almost definitely going to lose, whereas if it's a Protoss or Zerg the odds are generally in my favor. Sad but true.

I've been more about early-game macro in WoL and only ever really opened aggressive in ZvZ but I may need to start experimenting with more aggressive builds in ZvT.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I get anxiety because I know if I get matched to a Terran I'm almost definitely going to lose, whereas if it's a Protoss or Zerg the odds are generally in my favor. Sad but true.
> 
> I've been more about early-game macro in WoL and only ever really opened aggressive in ZvZ but I may need to start experimenting with more aggressive builds in ZvT.


2 base Roach all ins are popular again. Just make sure to deny info.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 1v1 is the only thing that isn't boring for me. If you have ladder anxiety you can do unranked or play on another region.
> 
> 
> 
> The game still records your unranked performance... it just doesn't give you ladder points.
Click to expand...

You should play more 1v1's


----------



## sepheroth003

I think I'll keep playing ladder. It's not like the platinum player completely dominated me like I did the bronze players. So maybe I will be silver or gold. Might as well finish the placement matches and see. Once I get more games I'm sure the MMR system will be more accurate.

HOTS has me switching to Terran for some reason. I realized with Protoss I missed too many warp gate cycles.

Now my issue is if I go bio, how do you know what to build (marine vs marauder?) I hotkey all my production buildings together and tab through them just hitting buttons to build stuff. I don't really have a reason. It's funny but its not, when I select my barracks I hit A and D back and forth lol.


----------



## Pandora51

Sadly i played only a few games in Hots but is it a common problem to have very bad performance in Sc2? Played yesterday 4vs4 and sometimes i have only around 30-40 fps later iin the game. (middle graphic settings, effects ultra).
I know Sc2 is optimized for only 2 cores but i never had such low framerates in 4vs4. In 1vs1 everything is fine of course. Couldn´t play with framerates below 60 xD Some friends experience it too in 4vs4.
Is there a solution expect reducing all the settings?

Anyways I play now some 1vs1. Need to find my way back to the master








What i have seen so far, voidrays are pretty strong in PvP. Maybe i should try to play them in teh lategame.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Keep in mind, gold and silver are a lot easier to get into than they were in WoL, instead of 20% 20% 20%, it's 32%, 20%, 8% for gold, silver, bronze.


I'm top Plat and i pretty much do the same thing, switch between a/d a/d a/d... or.. ddddddddd and then hold aaaaaaaaaaa to fill up (usually when money is floating)

early game i'd have one reactor (for stim) and two unupgraded barracks (depends on bu ild of course) but in this case i just try to get a handful of marines. Once money increases i add to reactors and produce marauders and marines. One i have more money or mid game i have like 10 something barracks. Of which 3 are probably tech lab and the rest reactors.

It's just important to have a good amount of marauders in your mix. They take hits and they do deal damage. They're especially important when going vs protoss. In protoss games i feel like if you are able to fend off an attack you can easily take a few more units of his with you while he tries to run away which is always a good thing.


----------



## 13321G4

Marauders are so strong. TvZ, if you don't want to use them in a straight up battle, load them up in medivacs and you can snipe buildings easy as hell.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I'm top Plat and i pretty much do the same thing, switch between a/d a/d a/d... or.. ddddddddd and then hold aaaaaaaaaaa to fill up (usually when money is floating)


Good to hear. I am curious though, there has to be a good blend or whatever. I suppose it depends on what your opponent is making.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> early game i'd have one reactor (for stim)


Assume you mean one tech lab? Need tech lab to research stim.

I think I really lost to the Plat player because A: I didn't scout enough. B: I didn't make vikings to counter the colossus, because I didn't know there were colossus lol.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Good to hear. I am curious though, there has to be a good blend or whatever. I suppose it depends on what your opponent is making.
> Assume you mean one tech lab? Need tech lab to research stim.
> 
> I think I really lost to the Plat player because A: I didn't scout enough. B: I didn't make vikings to counter the colossus, because I didn't know there were colossus lol.


Sounds like you are already on the road to improvement.


----------



## squall325

Is there a way to fix a starcraft 2 install? I recently got a new laptop and so I shortcutted my installation by installing SC2 using the disc then cancelled the patches and just copied over the fully patched SC2 from my desktop. On Programs and Features on my laptop, the version is 1.0.0.xxxx while its 2.0.0.xxxx on my desktop. The game runs via SC2Switcher.exe but no through its launcher. Is there a way to trick the registry to display 2.0.0 on the laptop or do I have to really install and patch from scratch?


----------



## Bolaz

How do you guys have your Camera Hot Keys set up since F2 is to select all units? Im just curious.

Also is it worth it for me to get HOTS? I never even completed a quarter of the campaign on WOL


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 1v1 is the only thing that isn't boring for me. If you have ladder anxiety you can do unranked or play on another region.


I love me some team games, but even in 2v2 all you see is cheese and timing pushes. 1v1 is the only way you can have legitimate games


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squall325*
> 
> Is there a way to fix a starcraft 2 install? I recently got a new laptop and so I shortcutted my installation by installing SC2 using the disc then cancelled the patches and just copied over the fully patched SC2 from my desktop. On Programs and Features on my laptop, the version is 1.0.0.xxxx while its 2.0.0.xxxx on my desktop. The game runs via SC2Switcher.exe but no through its launcher. Is there a way to trick the registry to display 2.0.0 on the laptop or do I have to really install and patch from scratch?


You can copy over the entire directory without running the installer. I've done it on fresh installs without any issues.


----------



## squall325

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> You can copy over the entire directory without running the installer. I've done it on fresh installs without any issues.


I'm a bit OC of having programs that doesn't appear on Programs and Features list so I'm just patiently patching up my client now. Been searching solutions for it for the past couple of hours to no avail.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You should play more 1v1's


What am I, a masochist? >_>

I might play more if you could teach me to be not totally crap...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> How do you guys have your Camera Hot Keys set up since F2 is to select all units? Im just curious.


Never used F2 for a unit selector... It's not a good idea anyway, because it's useful if 100% of your troops are in one spot, but they very often aren't.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I love me some team games, but even in 2v2 all you see is cheese and timing pushes. 1v1 is the only way you can have legitimate games


Maybe, but I like being entirely responsible for my win/losses.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> How do you guys have your Camera Hot Keys set up since F2 is to select all units? Im just curious.
> 
> Also is it worth it for me to get HOTS? I never even completed a quarter of the campaign on WOL


I don't use F2. I use 1 and 2 for my armies, 3 for production buildings, 4 for Command Centers. That's about it, other than the standard A for marine, D for marauder, etc.

You should try to play through the campaign, it's really cool. I loved both campaigns and I generally hate single player games. If you only play multiplayer, absolutely you should get HOTS. I would imagine 90% people switched over already. Just my guess anyways.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Sounds like you are already on the road to improvement.


Thanks. I watch a ton of SC2 vids and commentaries. I just can't physically and mentally remember and execute everything I know I need to do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I love me some team games, but even in 2v2 all you see is cheese and timing pushes. 1v1 is the only way you can have legitimate games


I guess you have a good point, lots of cheese and all ins. Real strategies come out in 1v1.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I don't use F2. I use 1 and 2 for my armies, 3 for production buildings, 4 for Command Centers. That's about it, other than the standard A for marine, D for marauder, etc


Oh, hotkey talk!









I seem to be alone in using all 10 keys. >_>

I used 1-3 and sometimes 4 for army, usually breaking them into things like 1 for M/M, 2 for mech, and 3 for air. (Or 1 zealot, 2 stalker/immortal, 3 collossus, etc)

4 and 5 for production buildings, whatever I'm using most...

6 and 7 for upgrade buildings, like... 6 Forge, 7 Cyber core or 6 EBay and 7 Armory

8 and 9 for hatch/next/cc (two keys to select them all so I can be a little less precise in reaching over to find that button...)

0 for special cases.

I'm still learning camera hotkeys.


----------



## RikkAndrsn

Hey guys, registration just went live for our April SC2:HotS Challenge.

Follow the link if you want to sign up:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1377370/tournament-overclock-net-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-challenge-2-500-in-prizes


----------



## NewHighScore

noooooooo! the battle.net/sc2 webpage is down right now.







can't get my profile link for reg.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> noooooooo! the battle.net/sc2 webpage is down right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can't get my profile link for reg.


Just search your history


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Gah! They got rid of intermediate division for the tournament so now it's Platinum to GM








What's a first-time Platinum player to do?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Gah! They got rid of intermediate division for the tournament so now it's Platinum to GM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's a first-time Platinum player to do?


gg


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Just search your history


Thanks just did that.







the thought never occurred.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> gg












so true ahhahaha


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Oh, hotkey talk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to be alone in using all 10 keys. >_>
> 
> I used 1-3 and sometimes 4 for army, usually breaking them into things like 1 for M/M, 2 for mech, and 3 for air. (Or 1 zealot, 2 stalker/immortal, 3 collossus, etc)
> 
> 4 and 5 for production buildings, whatever I'm using most...
> 
> 6 and 7 for upgrade buildings, like... 6 Forge, 7 Cyber core or 6 EBay and 7 Armory
> 
> 8 and 9 for hatch/next/cc (two keys to select them all so I can be a little less precise in reaching over to find that button...)
> 
> 0 for special cases.
> 
> I'm still learning camera hotkeys.


Nice! Im so slow at switching for stuff need to practice on that somehow


----------



## Bolaz

About to jump in game in the next 10 minutes if anyone wants to join


----------



## AblueXKRS

Game, or write my speech...

Decisions, Decisions...


----------



## AblueXKRS

I'll play with you, Bolaz. At least a game or two.


----------



## Hoodz

I picked this game up again yesterday to get back into i was surprised to see that you no longer need to research siege tank tec so i was pretty happy with that. Marines & Tanks were my favourite combo in Sc1.


----------



## Bolaz

Who is Nomad? Hit me up again, i just tried to add you and closed the chat by accident


----------



## General123

Okay so I am playing against a Zerg who goes mass swarm host roach ling queen with spore crawlers and nydus' and all that crap. I am harassing now stop with DT/Zeal taking out a bunch of his crap while im trapped in my 2 bases trying to hold this off without the economy to go skytoss. What do I do? I scouted it pushed out and tried to stop the push and I slowed it but then next thing I know it got out of hand fast.. ??? Was going with many colossus trying to keep the locust at bay but eventually I got over ran.


----------



## CravinR1

Whats the new OCN channel ?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RikkAndrsn*
> 
> Hey guys, registration just went live for our April SC2:HotS Challenge.
> 
> Follow the link if you want to sign up:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1377370/tournament-overclock-net-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-challenge-2-500-in-prizes


Wow nice prizes. I wish I wouldn't have taken any time off. I see a lot more masters on oc.net these days.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Whats the new OCN channel ?


It's not a channel, its a group. It's OCN.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You should play more 1v1's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What am I, a masochist? >_>
> 
> I might play more if you could teach me to be not totally crap...
Click to expand...

I might teach you if you came online, ever


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I might teach you if you came online, ever


>_>

I promise I'll be on more in the next few days... It's just all this homework I have to do before the last week of school...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Ugh... all night long, waiting for server when my internet is working perfectly fine. I was dropped from 3 games, this is just ridiculous. Have others found this to be more prevalent since the patch that updated battle.net to HotS? It happens to me almost every day.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Sometimes when I play a save game, then load or restart, the game skips frames, which is very noticable when looking around with the mouse. And to fix it I have to restart the whole game, not just quit back to menu.

Anyone else get that sometimes?


----------



## poroboszcz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407158

From spectator's point of view I have to say this is awesome. Probably not so much for foreign players.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Okay so I am playing against a Zerg who goes mass swarm host roach ling queen with spore crawlers and nydus' and all that crap. I am harassing now stop with DT/Zeal taking out a bunch of his crap while im trapped in my 2 bases trying to hold this off without the economy to go skytoss. What do I do? I scouted it pushed out and tried to stop the push and I slowed it but then next thing I know it got out of hand fast.. ??? Was going with many colossus trying to keep the locust at bay but eventually I got over ran.


By the sound of it you probably tried to tech too much on two bases. If you see no 3rd from zerg by 5 minutes scout his main with hallucination around 7 to confirm swarm hosts. Then tech to colossi with a lot of cannons for defense. You can even go up to two robos and getting a warp prism for harassment is never a bad idea. Another thing to try, if you've already committed to non-robo tech is to drop like 7 gates and go for a base race after he moves out (for example you can see Classic vs Crazy on Fighting Spirit from recent proleague).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Sometimes when I play a save game, then load or restart, the game skips frames, which is very noticable when looking around with the mouse. And to fix it I have to restart the whole game, not just quit back to menu.
> 
> Anyone else get that sometimes?


Do you mean skipping frames or framerate drop? I've had an issue where my framerate dropped to like 15 from 150+ randomly in a multiplayer match turning the game into a slideshow. Happened to me twice since HotS, but I'm still not sure if it's SC2 issue or something hardware related.


----------



## sepheroth003

Specific question before I rant on the game I lost last night.

*When you A attack towards a Planetary Fortress does your army attack SCVs that are repairing it or just the PT?*



Spoiler: Warning: Extreme unedited rant!



I didn't watch the replay because quite frankly the game made me mad. I probably had 15 marauders, 30 marines, 3 or 4 medivacs for a 2/2 upgrade push. I couldn't kill a single PT. First I select fired on it expecting it to fall. He was repairing with like 30 SCVs. So I hit A attack and clicked between my army and the PT. Then I went back to macro for a few seconds, next thing I know I was losing the fight horribly. He had no other units around, just a PT. He ended up making 3 PTs at his natural expansion, I absolutely couldn't break it with my planned marine/marauder build even when I was 3/3. He attacked with 20 or so clocked banshees, I was very happy I stimmed a bunch of marines used my orbitals and killed them all before they did any damage. Literally I think he only got 1 SCV (one that was building a new CC in my base). I'm really stupid and didn't put two and two together that he had a lot of banshees, and he had a lot of starports. What comes next? I transitioned into BCs to break the PTs, unfortunately I never saw him build BCs when I was doing drops on his starports so I didn't know he was transitioning to BCs as well. Needless to say he had double if not triple the BCs I had when we met again.

I lost because

A: PTs are dumb and I couldn't break them with what seemed like way more than enough units.
B: I didn't use the information I had from scouting/attacking to understand he was transitioning into BCs.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Specific question before I rant on the game I lost last night.
> 
> *When you A attack towards a Planetary Fortress does your army attack SCVs that are repairing it or just the PT?*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Extreme unedited rant!
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't watch the replay because quite frankly the game made me mad. I probably had 15 marauders, 30 marines, 3 or 4 medivacs for a 2/2 upgrade push. I couldn't kill a single PT. First I select fired on it expecting it to fall. He was repairing with like 30 SCVs. So I hit A attack and clicked between my army and the PT. Then I went back to macro for a few seconds, next thing I know I was losing the fight horribly. He had no other units around, just a PT. He ended up making 3 PTs at his natural expansion, I absolutely couldn't break it with my planned marine/marauder build even when I was 3/3. He attacked with 20 or so clocked banshees, I was very happy I stimmed a bunch of marines used my orbitals and killed them all before they did any damage. Literally I think he only got 1 SCV (one that was building a new CC in my base). I'm really stupid and didn't put two and two together that he had a lot of banshees, and he had a lot of starports. What comes next? I transitioned into BCs to break the PTs, unfortunately I never saw him build BCs when I was doing drops on his starports so I didn't know he was transitioning to BCs as well. Needless to say he had double if not triple the BCs I had when we met again.
> 
> I lost because
> 
> A: PTs are dumb and I couldn't break them with what seemed like way more than enough units.
> B: I didn't use the information I had from scouting/attacking to understand he was transitioning into BCs.


Just the PF, the AI will attack any attacking units before workers.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Just the PF, the AI will attack any attacking units before workers.


So any tricks on attacking the SCVs that are repairing? Or do I have to click them one by one?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> So any tricks on attacking the SCVs that are repairing? Or do I have to click them one by one?


You have to click the workers which is tricky and requires a lot of precision. If you have 10+ stimmed marauders they can easily out DPS the repairing though.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> So any tricks on attacking the SCVs that are repairing? Or do I have to click them one by one?


Micro


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> By the sound of it you probably tried to tech too much on two bases. If you see no 3rd from zerg by 5 minutes scout his main with hallucination around 7 to confirm swarm hosts. Then tech to colossi with a lot of cannons for defense. You can even go up to two robos and getting a warp prism for harassment is never a bad idea. Another thing to try, if you've already committed to non-robo tech is to drop like 7 gates and go for a base race after he moves out (for example you can see Classic vs Crazy on Fighting Spirit from recent proleague).


My only tech was a robo and a dark shrine. Funny enough I did what you said, 2 robos and cannons I just should of made a army off of the warp prism and did a base race(even though he was on like 6 bases with spines and spores everywhere). But he just won out right when he got corruptors out.. just a scary game I could do nothing lol. I feel like skytoss or at least a couple of voids before the corruptors was the answer but I was already so far behind it would of been a insane battle.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> My only tech was a robo and a dark shrine. Funny enough I did what you said, 2 robos and cannons I just should of made a army off of the warp prism and did a base race(even though he was on like 6 bases with spines and spores everywhere). But he just won out right when he got corruptors out.. just a scary game I could do nothing lol. I feel like skytoss or at least a couple of voids before the corruptors was the answer but I was already so far behind it would of been a insane battle.


Take it with grain of salt as i'm just gold, but whenever i do early Swarmhost agressive on 2B i'm usualy pretty limited in my army before they go out , while i can get them out before f.e Immortal All-in would hit it has weakness of being low on def before they come out pre-7-8-9m , few voids probably wouldn't help as if anything few hydras + possible spore crawlers will be near my swarmhosts. There's also an option of going SH+queens build , hits at ~9-10m which would stop minor air forces of yours. To kill locust wave coming at you , 3-4 Coll is aprox what you want to kill them instantly and move to kill swarmhosts , if there's overseer make sure to keep your ob near your coll as it's harder to snipe it then. Would say that toss even though i've been playing ~2weeks is currently my easiest matchup as Zerg in gold.
Infestation pit going up at 6-8m is good indication zerg will go for swarmhosts.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> My only tech was a robo and a dark shrine. Funny enough I did what you said, 2 robos and cannons I just should of made a army off of the warp prism and did a base race(even though he was on like 6 bases with spines and spores everywhere). But he just won out right when he got corruptors out.. just a scary game I could do nothing lol. I feel like skytoss or at least a couple of voids before the corruptors was the answer but I was already so far behind it would of been a insane battle.


It seems your overall strategy was good then but your opponent must have played better. It takes a lot of time and resources to get to 6 bases with spores and spines, and tech to corruptors. You shouldn't really let the zerg take 3rd and you need to break the contain as soon as possible with 3-4 colossi with range.


----------



## connectwise




----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Do you mean skipping frames or framerate drop? I've had an issue where my framerate dropped to like 15 from 150+ randomly in a multiplayer match turning the game into a slideshow. Happened to me twice since HotS, but I'm still not sure if it's SC2 issue or something hardware related.


The fps feel about the same @60, I mean skipping every few seconds in campagain


----------



## Anti!!

you know what? I'm thinking we should make an overclock.net clan for diamond and up. We have some real talent here.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*


pointless sentry.


----------



## Anti!!

Lol!! Artosis...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> you know what? I'm thinking we should make an overclock.net clan for diamond and up. We have some real talent here.


Agreed. I've been looking.

And don't forget we have one overclock.netter who beat Artosis! Me!


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Agreed. I've been looking.
> 
> And don't forget we have one overclock.netter who beat Artosis! Me!


Wat

When did you play him?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol!! Artosis...


In game 2 he truly defines the Artosis Pylon. I seriously cannot comprehend why he would build only 1 Pylon to power 2 gates and a robo.


----------



## Bolaz

I started playing the campaign again yesterday and i must say as annoying as it is, it does get you used to building different things and being capped on minerals and such.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

When you have a massive army and the fps drops when they move and twitch about trying to find a spot, and the fps drops into the 20s momentarily until they stop and goes back to 60fps when they are just shooting,

does an i7 SB or i7 IB do any better vs an i5 SB/IB ?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> When you have a massive army and the fps drops when they move and twitch about trying to find a spot, and the fps drops into the 20s momentarily until they stop and goes back to 60fps when they are just shooting,
> 
> does an i7 SB or i7 IB do any better vs an i5 SB/IB ?


Nop, it doesn't make use of the hyperthreading. Just overclock as high as you can to reduce the lagg or just lower the settings.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> When you have a massive army and the fps drops when they move and twitch about trying to find a spot, and the fps drops into the 20s momentarily until they stop and goes back to 60fps when they are just shooting,
> 
> does an i7 SB or i7 IB do any better vs an i5 SB/IB ?


I can pretty handily max out the graphics but I turn down everything except for textures and models just to ensure consistently excellent FPS. When playing multiplayer it also helps reduce visual clutter and make everything easier to distinguish. Are you playing 4v4's? That's the only time I can visually notice an FPS drop when playing with maxed graphics.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

No this was single player of Outbreak on brutal

I'm running at 4.2GHz, no big deal,


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> No this was single player of Outbreak on brutal
> 
> I'm running at 4.2GHz, no big deal,


My 2500K is at 4.8GHz and I never had lag in the WoL campaign. I only have lag in huge multi-player online games or in the HoTS campaign where I make 300 zerglings.


----------



## Bolaz

I never get any lag what so ever


----------



## revro

hmm i think the lags is mostly in multiplayer cause of networking, i just finished both campaigns and i had zero stuttering. in multiplayer i get stuttering quite often.
what does it mean in campaign if hots writes finished normal missions? do i have to pass the chalenges so i can get complete status? i did all bioevolution missions i am 27/27. was better at achievments as the 3rd achievement in hots can be done on normal so you dont have to play missions on hard like in wol

tomorrow i will get sc+sc bw for 5eur+4eur shipping, will replay those 2. i guess its like 30 missions each (30 missions sc, and 30 missions sc brood wars)?

PS: lol i am hooked will buy the last one too







uff 50eur they want for protoss campaing ...

thanks
revro


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> My 2500K is at 4.8GHz and I never had lag in the WoL campaign. I only have lag in huge multi-player online games or in the HoTS campaign where I make 300 zerglings.


I wonder if it cause I only have 4GB ram, its OCed to 1866 CL8 but I'm not get 8GB til I get haswell and sell current stuff


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> In game 2 he truly defines the Artosis Pylon. I seriously cannot comprehend why he would build only 1 Pylon to power 2 gates and a robo.


Face palm...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Agreed. I've been looking.
> 
> And don't forget we have one overclock.netter who beat Artosis! Me!


I guess we could do it and just see what happens. Ill have to talk with my active members in the sc2 division. Its only a couple now days anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Wat
> 
> When did you play him?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A

2 years ago ....


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A
> 
> 2 years ago ....


Just watched it, DUDE how the hell do you move so fast!! O.0 lol


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A
> 
> 2 years ago ....


Dang, nice micro man.


----------



## DoomDash

Hah trust me the pros make me look slow.

and thanks I took a lot of time off so I'm still getting into the swing of things. I'm like low-masters atm I feel, and I used to be mid-high. I'm taking a new approach to improve this time wish me luck ( with much much less time on my hands though ).


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zz8tf8_6A
> 
> 2 years ago ....


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*


LOL


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> LOL


My thoughts exactly. I gave him rep.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Hah trust me the pros make me look slow.
> 
> and thanks I took a lot of time off so I'm still getting into the swing of things. I'm like low-masters atm I feel, and I used to be mid-high. I'm taking a new approach to improve this time wish me luck ( with much much less time on my hands though ).


So it was indeed the real Artosis?


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> *It seems your overall strategy was good then but your opponent must have played better.* It takes a lot of time and resources to get to 6 bases with spores and spines, and tech to corruptors. You shouldn't really let the zerg take 3rd and you need to break the contain as soon as possible with 3-4 colossi with range.


This probably sums it up. I only play 1's ladder games maybe 3 times a day every other day. So naturally I did not know exactly what to do so I did like I would if I got spine contained in WoL (Colossus cannons and trying to make him retreat to his base.) But hopefully the next the time I run into it I will be prepared better.
Thank you to both you and jellybean.


----------



## HometownHero

Demuslim didnt get a WCS NA invite...


----------



## Anti!!

Sounds like a response of his. Lol. Mmyyyeaaah new keyboard. 4k forcefields. Lolz.

I remember ol xel naga.. 7rr op. Lol!


----------



## acupholdr68

anybody for 2v2? please have skype

profile:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1316149/1/Crusader/

i'll be on all today


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupholdr68*
> 
> anybody for 2v2? please have skype
> 
> profile:
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1316149/1/Crusader/
> 
> i'll be on all today


let's do placements when i get off work! i need to install my GTX 660 but it'll only take a sec, i should be on around 7 pm CST.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/337671/1/mkultra/

Man I wish Starcraft 2 kept even more player statistics, I once had a 17 game win streak playing random 4's (I convinced my team to rush every game lol)


----------



## acupholdr68

MKUL7R4 - pm sent


----------



## MKUL7R4

Alright cool, I usually go for a 14/14 speedling expand and bust with banes if necessary, not sure of the exact timing but at like 6:00-7:00 I can have plenty of slings/banes

Macro games are cool too they're just pretty hard to do in team games


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> So it was indeed the real Artosis?


Yes.


----------



## DoomDash

[
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Demuslim didnt get a WCS NA invite...


So bogus. Best foreign terran imo.


----------



## acupholdr68

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Alright cool, I usually go for a 14/14 speedling expand and bust with banes if necessary, not sure of the exact timing but at like 6:00-7:00 I can have plenty of slings/banes
> 
> Macro games are cool too they're just pretty hard to do in team games


i stick to bio most of the time. i play my other 2v2s with zerg. i like doing a fast wall off with a 3 rax by cutting workers at 12 and make plenty of marines to protect expansions early on/stop cheese. i always mix it up though.

we have the same keyboard! .....except i returned mine to amazon for a das keyboard YESTERDAY, lol. the CM quickfire is gr8 though, I just wanted to try something new, and am liking it so far.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupholdr68*
> 
> i stick to bio most of the time. i play my other 2v2s with zerg. i like doing a fast wall off with a 3 rax by cutting workers at 12 and make plenty of marines to protect expansions early on/stop cheese. i always mix it up though.
> 
> we have the same keyboard! .....except i returned mine to amazon for a das keyboard YESTERDAY, lol. the CM quickfire is gr8 though, I just wanted to try something new, and am liking it so far.


Can i join? I'll be on around 6:30-7:00pm Eastern when i get home from work


----------



## connectwise

O god, I just had a dream that I was playing a 2v2 game. I was proxy gated and double proxy hatched in my own base. But when my pool was up my hatch grew out a crab arm and started poking at their buildings like a spine.

I don't even play starcraft.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So bogus. Best foreign terran imo.


Yeah, that's weird. He's way better than say Idra or HuK atm. It seems though he was considered as a non-american to be given one of 8 foreign spots and has been neglected in favor of players like Polt, Violet and NesTea. I'm pretty sure he will qualify though. It's not like he has a lot of competition in NA.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Can i join? I'll be on around 6:30-7:00pm Eastern when i get home from work


Can you link to your bnet profile? If you're bronze or something we can still probably do unranked. I usually like to play ranked with people of similar skill though


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah, that's weird. He's way better then say Idra or HuK atm. It seems though he was considered as a non-american to be given one of 8 foreign spots and has been neglected in favor of players like Polt, Violet and NesTea. I'm pretty sure he will qualify though. It's not like he has a lot of competition in NA.


When is the last time he has finished in a podium at any notable tourney?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> When is the last time he has finished in a podium at any notable tourney?


http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1589_DeMusliM

When was the last time a foreigner finished in a podium at any notable tourney? He has way more achievements than half of the players that got invites and I'd definitely consider him to be in top 16 of NA.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Can you link to your bnet profile? If you're bronze or something we can still probably do unranked. I usually like to play ranked with people of similar skill though


ohohohohohohohohoh

Can I join?







pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/516749/1/AblueXKRS/

I should be available all through the next four hours...

Neeeeeeeeevermind, you guys are like 6 miles above me in terms of skill


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> O god, I just had a dream that I was playing a 2v2 game. I was proxy gated and double proxy hatched in my own base. But when my pool was up my hatch grew out a crab arm and started poking at their buildings like a spine.
> 
> I don't even play starcraft.


LOL that's awesome. SC is one of the easiest and best games to get into without even playing it. I've played a whopping 4 games in HOTS (other than the campaign) and I love this game.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> ohohohohohohohohoh
> 
> Can I join?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/516749/1/AblueXKRS/
> 
> I should be available all through the next four hours...
> 
> Neeeeeeeeevermind, you guys are like 6 miles above me in terms of skill


well you can always hang around in the OCN group channel and we could play some unranked games. Maybe i can give you some pointers


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1589_DeMusliM
> 
> When was the last time a foreigner finished in a podium at any notable tourney? He has way more achievements than half of the players that got invites and I'd definitely consider him to be in top 16 of NA.


Hmm.. a shame that he gets so shadowed..


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Can you link to your bnet profile? If you're bronze or something we can still probably do unranked. I usually like to play ranked with people of similar skill though


Yeah here is mine, just hit me up if you feel like playing an unraked game or something









http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/883987/1/Bolaz/


----------



## sepheroth003

I really want people to play with, as stated before 1v1s bore me. I can literally only make it through 1 of those a night. I'm always in the OCN channel when I'm on. Heres my account, anyone please your welcome to friend me. I have a ventrilo server and skype (I have no clue how to use skype).

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1272035/1/Valitri/


----------



## MKUL7R4

Go in the OCN group chat room guys, I honestly don't know how to add people by looking at their bnet profiles


----------



## Sainesk

*sigh* just had another game where I have to face masters on ladder just so I don't get promoted to diamond...







almost won too trying an oracle build another masters on ladder used on me







that blue portrait border is so close...


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> *sigh* just had another game where I have to face masters on ladder just so I don't get promoted to diamond...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> almost won too trying an oracle build another masters on ladder used on me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that blue portrait border is so close...


ProxySG with one or double oracle against terran u mean?


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Go in the OCN group chat room guys, I honestly don't know how to add people by looking at their bnet profiles


Same here, i was on there last night but no one was talking lol


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Go in the OCN group chat room guys, I honestly don't know how to add people by looking at their bnet profiles


I added you last night, I am Valitri.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Same here, i was on there last night but no one was talking lol


I hopped in for a few seconds before going to play some other games with a buddy that was on last night. I will always be in the group channel when I play and will always play team games for fun.


----------



## Anti!!

yeah, we got some anti social peeps it seems.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I added you last night, I am Valitri.
> I hopped in for a few seconds before going to play some other games with a buddy that was on last night. I will always be in the group channel when I play and will always play team games for fun.


I like playing team games because i can learn a lot from it, im always down. I dont think im going out tonight so i'll be one around 6:30 Estern


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Same here, i was on there last night but no one was talking lol


It just pisses me off that every time I log in I need to manually enter all my usual chat channels, most of the time I am too lazy and don't even go in the channel


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> It just pisses me off that every time I log in I need to manually enter all my usual chat channels, most of the time I am too lazy and don't even go in the channel


Yeah i dont understand why they dont autopopulate on that window


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I'm going through and beating all missions on all difficulty, I'm up to The Great train robbery finished on brutal, wish I had a video of that 1, I missed 1 train, and no joke I was down to the last diamondback firing its last shot killing the train before dieing itself, and lots of the last escort was still alive, and I ran right into a marauder squad too


----------



## CravinR1

Anyone else having hell logging into battle.net


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anyone else having hell logging into battle.net


I just logged in just fine


----------



## CravinR1

Ever since hots I keep getting disconneced and failing to login. I guess i'm gonna have to uniinstall and reinstall


----------



## Anti!!

Ive noticed the game will just lock up way to much now. Good thing I haven't been doing league during this time.

ONe time I about completely disconnected, but I pulled up task manager and went to the processes tab and hit end on sc2 and then clicked cancel and it brought it back. lol Good thing too. I beat that guy after that.

ANNNNDDDDDDD

\/ This \/ still owns me. lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I have no problems logging in but get the waiting for server - surrender screen nearly everyday since HotS came out. I've probably been dropped from around 10 ladder matches this season, resulting in a loss each time. No joke, I even had it happen while playing 1v1 against AI!


----------



## Twistacles

whats the ocn channel?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> whats the ocn channel?


OCN


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Do upgrades at the armory affect mercenaries? What about tech upgrades in game?

I'm in no rush to start HoTS, so I'll start another WoL game but get all the mercs this time, on my current game I never bought any


----------



## kelc

battlenet has been bugging out lately especially with the experience points being deactivated.


----------



## AblueXKRS

New challenge: While playing against a harder or better AI on a 2-player map, get your income to exceed 10,000 minerals per minute.

PS. turning physics to maximum and then using four siege tanks to friendly fire + splash damage 188 marines makes for a wonderful fountain of body parts.


----------



## FrankoNL

I got back in Sc2 a a former protoss player and switched to be king ( in my case ) of the swarm.

Does anybody have a place where i can find decent openers vs all the other races?

Example:

I know what to do against toss -> 15 pool, 16 hatch .. but if he FFE, when do i take my third?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I got back in Sc2 a a former protoss player and switched to be king ( in my case ) of the swarm.
> 
> Does anybody have a place where i can find decent openers vs all the other races?
> 
> Example:
> 
> I know what to do against toss -> 15 pool, 16 hatch .. but if he FFE, when do i take my third?


As early as 4:30.


----------



## FrankoNL

ok. I guess it is a gasless expand?

i just find it hard to focus on all the different things when playing zerg. When to drone up, when to make a queen etc.


----------



## jellybeans69

Taking third @ 22 supply vs FFE is quite standart


----------



## FrankoNL

ok thanks







Any good idea's regarding build guides for the different matchups?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> ok thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any good idea's regarding build guides for the different matchups?


ZvZ always 14/15p at latest to defend any early pools.


----------



## FrankoNL

yeah, with zvz i normally go 13 pool 15 hatch, 15 gas and i try to get out my speed asap.


----------



## Shadeh

Just something really useful that many people don't seem to know.(use this as a terran)

Say i have a
Command center
Barracks
Factory
Starport

Usually the terran player would have a number for each structures

For example
5 Command Center
4 Barracks,
6 Factory
3 Starport

Whatever.. you get the point

Then they'd have Engineering bay + Armor
Which would mean
7 Engineering bay(s)
8 Armory

So there we have quite a few things to set up and hitting the 7 and 8 keys won't be as accurate, well here's what my tip is for

Get used to doing it this way

Take any number.. personally i use the number 5 for my command centers..

so here we go

5 = Command center
okay next,
the #4 for Barracks, Factory AND starport

But how is this supposed to work?

It's simple: Instead of giving each structure its own number you give production facilities and upgrade facilities a a single number

So basically when you hit #4 you'll have barracks, factory and starport selected

Say i want to build a marine, marauder, siege tank and medivacs

Here's how it works
Click: 4
Click: a,d,a,d,a,d

(HIT TAB BUTTON TO SWITCH BETWEEN STRUCTURES) - Factory

CLICK:S,S,S
(HIT TAB BUTTON AGAIN TO SWITCH to the next STRUCTURE) - Starport
CLICK: D,D,D

Another advantage that comes with it is allocating all units at once.

This has helped me especially with the upgrade structures, instead of wasting my time trying to hopefully hit the number 7 and 8

Engineering bay + Armor on #6
CLICK : 6
click upgrades(engineering bay): E,A
TAB BUTTON

Armoy: : E,V

Viola, upgrading









it's that simply. Good luck and i have the feeling i could have made the post shorter but whatever


----------



## CravinR1

So I installed and tried to reinstall. no go. downloaded installer from blizzard and error used physical disk and error


----------



## kelc

does anyone want to play sc2 tonight in channel OCN?


----------



## General123

Wow oddest game ever.. the dude places a hatch in the bottom of the map cancels it and builds a pool then 6 pools me. I had no clue what was going on when I scouted so I just walled off completely, luckily I did.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> yeah, with zvz i normally go 13 pool 15 hatch, 15 gas and i try to get out my speed asap.


In zvz I either 15 hatch 15 pool 15 gas or I 15 gas 15 pool 17 hatch. I have held off many of 10 pools with a 15 hatch build as long as I dont get greedy with pool timing and as long as they dont send above 8 lings.

Also the stephano build is a good example to follow with zvp. It has small changes now that hots is out but its basic rules still apply. It is also a good base to add your own twists from. I can post it later if you wish.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> In zvz I either 15 hatch 15 pool 15 gas or I 15 gas 15 pool 17 hatch. I have held off many of 10 pools with a 15 hatch build as long as I dont get greedy with pool timing and as long as they dont send above 8 lings.
> 
> Also the stephano build is a good example to follow with zvp. It has small changes now that hots is out but its basic rules still apply. It is also a good base to add your own twists from. I can post it later if you wish.


If you could post that. It would be great


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> If you could post that. It would be great


Come to think of it Good ol whats his name from OCN gave these to me. I can never remember how to spell his name right..

ZvP Stephano Style

15 pool
15 hatch #2
15 overlord
15 queen #1 (inject in main then send to natural)
22 queen #2
24 hatch #3, overlord
32 queen #3, overlord, (use queen #1 to place creep and send it to 3rd)
40 2x overlord
[6:00] 2x gas
[7:00] roach warren,evo chamber
[7:00 - 7:30] lair, speed, gas #3 and #4
[8:00] 60+drones, start roach production
[8:00 - 9:00] +1, roach speed, macro hatch
[10:30 - 11:30] start pushing and max out

You also can throw in Hydras and Vipers in now, or do Hydras and swarm hosts. Its really just a basic structure as i said

ZvZ NesTea

Open either with speedling aggresion (map dependant):
15 pool
15 gas
17 hatch
16 queen
18 overlord, speed (remove drones @100 gas)
lings
21 queen
23 overlord
lings
31 overlord
lings to 42
[5:30] speed complete - attack
[6:00] 42 lings
[7:00] refill gas, make 3rd queen, add roach warren

or macro:
15 hatch
15 gas
15 pool
17 overlord
2x queen
@100 gas speed
32 queen #3
[5:00] roach warren, optional spine crawler
[6:00] evo chamber, optional roaches
[7:00] 3rd, +1 attack
[8:00] 3x gas, lair
[9:00] roach speed, macro hatch
[10:30] hydra den, keep pushing with roaches
[12:00] +2, gas #5 and #6, start hydras
[13:30] 200/200 + 2 roach hydra push

I usually just do a muta ling bane variant, and if my opponent choose roach hydra infestor to play against muta bane I will go into ultras while denying their bases.


----------



## General123

I'm in chat OCN if anyone wants to place 2's or however many people pop in.
Or add me from my sig ill be on most of the day.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Come to think of it Good ol whats his name from OCN gave these to me. I can never remember how to spell his name right..


It's Blinker







These are solid builds, but ZvZ seems to be all about mutas now.

OCN's tourney is on Reddit and TL now with some more details. I wonder how many people will sign up. $2500 is a decent prize pool so I won't be surprised to see some lesser pros. Oh well, just more noobs to own.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Come to think of it Good ol whats his name from OCN gave these to me. I can never remember how to spell his name right..
> 
> ZvP Stephano Style
> 
> 15 pool
> 15 hatch #2
> 15 overlord
> 15 queen #1 (inject in main then send to natural)
> 22 queen #2
> 24 hatch #3, overlord
> 32 queen #3, overlord, (use queen #1 to place creep and send it to 3rd)
> 40 2x overlord
> [6:00] 2x gas
> [7:00] roach warren,evo chamber
> [7:00 - 7:30] lair, speed, gas #3 and #4
> [8:00] 60+drones, start roach production
> [8:00 - 9:00] +1, roach speed, macro hatch
> [10:30 - 11:30] start pushing and max out
> 
> You also can throw in Hydras and Vipers in now, or do Hydras and swarm hosts. Its really just a basic structure as i said
> 
> ZvZ NesTea
> 
> Open either with speedling aggresion (map dependant):
> 15 pool
> 15 gas
> 17 hatch
> 16 queen
> 18 overlord, speed (remove drones @100 gas)
> lings
> 21 queen
> 23 overlord
> lings
> 31 overlord
> lings to 42
> [5:30] speed complete - attack
> [6:00] 42 lings
> [7:00] refill gas, make 3rd queen, add roach warren
> 
> or macro:
> 15 hatch
> 15 gas
> 15 pool
> 17 overlord
> 2x queen
> @100 gas speed
> 32 queen #3
> [5:00] roach warren, optional spine crawler
> [6:00] evo chamber, optional roaches
> [7:00] 3rd, +1 attack
> [8:00] 3x gas, lair
> [9:00] roach speed, macro hatch
> [10:30] hydra den, keep pushing with roaches
> [12:00] +2, gas #5 and #6, start hydras
> [13:30] 200/200 + 2 roach hydra push
> 
> I usually just do a muta ling bane variant, and if my opponent choose roach hydra infestor to play against muta bane I will go into ultras while denying their bases.


Tnx! But: Holy crap, it is going to take me a long time to figure this stuff out


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It's Blinker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are solid builds, but ZvZ seems to be all about mutas now.
> 
> OCN's tourney is on Reddit and TL now with some more details. I wonder how many people will sign up. $2500 is a decent prize pool so I won't be surprised to see some lesser pros. Oh well, just more noobs to own.


There he is!!! And yea, ALllll about mutas now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Tnx! But: Holy crap, it is going to take me a long time to figure this stuff out


I actually went through the build over and over against a macro AI, even on easy at first so i would not be interrupted trying to get in muscle memory. That is a quick way to learn it. Then do it against a Hard macro AI. This will get you to scout while performing muscle memory. Then do unranked online, and soon you can do it in ranked matches. Then you will realize you will just be learning its flexibility. hahah


----------



## sepheroth003

Since HOTS i switched to terran. Just beat a very hard computer! GO ME, I'm so awesome lol


----------



## jellybeans69

Hard cpu's seemed at aprox. silver level nothing more imo when i was watchin two guys from my flist playing against them.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Hard cpu's seemed at aprox. silver level nothing more imo when i was watchin two guys from my flist playing against them.


Ya I'm thinking I'm silver right now, and if I start playing more I could be gold pretty easy. Absolutely no higher than that.

Well that was fun, played with mkultra and dSync just now. Finally someone was in the OCN channel and played. I'll probably be on most of the night.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Ya I'm thinking I'm silver right now, and if I start playing more I could be gold pretty easy. Absolutely no higher than that.
> 
> Well that was fun, played with mkultra and dSync just now. Finally someone was in the OCN channel and played. I'll probably be on most of the night.


The biggest problem with people not always wanting to play is the skill level disparity. To be blatantly honest I usually won't game with someone unless they're at least platinum solo :/


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> The biggest problem with people not always wanting to play is the skill level disparity. To be blatantly honest I usually won't game with someone unless they're at least platinum solo :/


Understandable. It was dsyncs idea to go reapers. I really should have stayed marines. lol


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Man do I ever get fps drop on Outbreak mission. The fps drops from 60 into the 20s for a few seconds, I even saw 17, but then it will jump back to 60 and the game feels snappy/normal again. Hovers in the 40s a lot too, and then jumps back to 60.

Mainly noticed when out attacking. I'm running 4.2GHz and 4GB 1600 CL7 ram @1866 CL8, it passed 16h of P95 custom blend. What's this sound like, the CPU or not enough ram?

I just remembered about pagefile size, I'll add some SSD to pagefile and try again and see if diff.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Understandable. It was dsyncs idea to go reapers. I really should have stayed marines. lol


Yeah and I definitely should have just stuck with 14/14 speedlings


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Yeah and I definitely should have just stuck with 14/14 speedlings


Oh well I still thought it was fun. Just waiting on my wife to get home from a bridal shower so I can get back on and play my last placement match.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Wow oddest game ever.. the dude places a hatch in the bottom of the map cancels it and builds a pool then 6 pools me. I had no clue what was going on when I scouted so I just walled off completely, luckily I did.


That guy was most likely a redditor. This was recently posted:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1ca5ll/the_most_clever_6_pool_i_have_ever_seen_korean/

Talks about exactly that what you described. Guy that posted was more unlucky though...


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> That guy was most likely a redditor. This was recently posted:
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1ca5ll/the_most_clever_6_pool_i_have_ever_seen_korean/
> 
> Talks about exactly that what you described. Guy that posted was more unlucky though...


Yup thats it! Lol. When I saw the lings I was so confused. Very clever good thing it was on a good FFE map and I went forge first.


----------



## sepheroth003

And.... its official. I'm silver league. I lost my first 3 placement matches and won my last 2.

I really need to learn how to transition into late game. I swear if what I'm doing fails I panic and transition into battlecruisers every time. And it doesnt seem that good.


----------



## CravinR1

So I can't reinstall SC2 on my q6600 sig rig ...

Running as administrator makes no difference. This is a untouched download (third time) from battle.net of game client.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

thats strange, contact costomer support


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So I can't reinstall SC2 on my q6600 sig rig ...
> 
> Running as administrator makes no difference. This is a untouched download (third time) from battle.net of game client.


It is probably some conflicting error with the said file. Like Kaltenbrunner said, just contact customer support I am sure they will get you on your way.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So I can't reinstall SC2 on my q6600 sig rig ...
> 
> Running as administrator makes no difference. This is a untouched download (third time) from battle.net of game client.


You installing from DVD? Try doing the digital download from battle net?

BTW Hi cravin, how have you been?


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> You installing from DVD? Try doing the digital download from battle net?
> 
> BTW Hi cravin, how have you been?


Quote:


> this is a untouched download (third time) from battle.net of game client.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*


Whoops, I've drank a lot tonight sry. I just wanted to say hi to Crivin lol


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Whoops, I've drank a lot tonight sry. I just wanted to say hi to Crivin lol


Your fine that could have been easily misinterpreted because of the error message saying stuff about a CD/ DVD-ROM.


----------



## MKUL7R4

gg's Nydus

can't believe we did 5 unranked matches and thought we were doing ranked lol.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> gg's Nydus
> 
> can't believe we did 5 unranked matches and thought we were doing ranked lol.


LOL 10-0 baby! haha

http://www.twitch.tv/sc2proleague

stk soul and sk telecom t1 battling it out live right now peeps.

STK_Rain and SKtelecom_ Bisu fight next!!


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
its the dam 7950 crossfire causing my fps drop. On a visually simple mission, Zertul's 1st mission, I move the "camera" places and the fps drops into the 40s, so I saved and tried with CF disabled, it went to 60fps with v-sync.

Then exited and enabled CF, and right back to into the 40s

So SC2, FC3, Hitman are messed up with 13.2 and now 13.3 drivers F&^)&%_( you AMD


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> It is probably some conflicting error with the said file. Like Kaltenbrunner said, just contact customer support I am sure they will get you on your way.


try programdata. there is a bnet folder in there that can be deleted and it may help your problem.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So I can't reinstall SC2 on my q6600 sig rig ...
> 
> Running as administrator makes no difference. This is a untouched download (third time) from battle.net of game client.


Might be a bad stick of RAM or something if you're getting the same error using both the disk and download. Try running Memtest, I dunno.


----------



## revro

i think the fps drops has something to do with networking and synchronization. i had it on my single evga gtx 660, on 310.90 driver it wasnt that horrible but on the 314.22 it was. but then it kind of stopped being so apparent. so i dont know now









now playing original starcraft and uff its so hard







the units run around the map, dont kill enemies just let themselves be killed ... uff

best
revro


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> And.... its official. I'm silver league. I lost my first 3 placement matches and won my last 2.
> 
> I really need to learn how to transition into late game. I swear if what I'm doing fails I panic and transition into battlecruisers every time. And it doesnt seem that good.


We should practice together. I never made it past Silver, despite my understanding of mid- and late-game strategies and intermediate-ish concepts...

(*Understanding is one thing, execution is another)


----------



## jellybeans69

Decent day yesterday i had









 Luckily didn't get matched against too many terrans. Currently #2 in my Gold Div with 629 points.


----------



## CravinR1

Hello seph

My PC is rock stable and I uninstalled due to having to try several times to login to sc2 and getting kicked after one game and having to reboot to try several times to login to play one game.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> We should practice together. I never made it past Silver, despite my understanding of mid- and late-game strategies and intermediate-ish concepts...
> 
> (*Understanding is one thing, execution is another)


Sounds good. OCN group in game hit me up. I'm Valitri. I have a ventrilo server if you would like to use it as well.


----------



## sepheroth003

For those on the fence about buying HOTS.

$27.99 newegg shellshocker
http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-32-127-012-_-04142013_1


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> For those on the fence about buying HOTS.
> 
> $27.99 newegg shellshocker
> http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-32-127-012-_-04142013_1


i was on the fence before I saw the $30 Newegg preorder deal


----------



## revro

well we have hots in my local vendor for 30eur, just like wol, but the protoss campaign preorder is 50eur aua

best
revro


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone here signed up for WCS qualifiers?


----------



## Sainesk

Think I just had one of my most entertaining PvPs in a while, even I was

rooting for the other guy to win, loved his tactic...





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Proxy Nexus with Mothership Core and Photon Overcharge rush



(and so close to Diamond random, 650+ points rank 1...







)


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Think I just had one of my most entertaining PvPs in a while, even I was
> rooting for the other guy to win, loved his tactic...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Proxy Nexus with Mothership Core and Photon Overcharge rush
> 
> 
> (and so close to Diamond random, 650+ points rank 1...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Nice I'll watch that in a bit. FYI though being number one in your league does not mean a promotion is coming. I get promoted at like 50 something usually.


----------



## SeD669

Lol so my blizzard password got suspended coz someone has been loging in to my account from somewhere else. Now I cant reset the password







.. it asks me for my email and name but then says the name is incorrect??? Whoever hacked may have changed the name in my setting right? Or im just an idiot and cant remember what I put as my name. Coz it ain't my actual name


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeD669*
> 
> Lol so my blizzard password got suspended coz someone has been loging in to my account from somewhere else. Now I cant reset the password
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. it asks me for my email and name but then says the name is incorrect??? Whoever hacked may have changed the name in my setting right? Or im just an idiot and cant remember what I put as my name. Coz it ain't my actual name


\

Just get on the phone with blizzard customer support. This happened to me once and they were very quick about giving back access to my account.


----------



## SeD669

Sweet thats good to hear but I live in Australia







. I might have to email them instead?


----------



## NewHighScore

Heck ya made it back to diamond today! I left my league earlier this week cuz I was getting stomped but im back now and right to rank 4. I have a feeling I'll be dropping down to about 50ish


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Sounds good. OCN group in game hit me up. I'm Valitri. I have a ventrilo server if you would like to use it as well.


I added you in Starcraft. I'll give a shout if I see you on


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I jumped to conclusions about 7950 CF being the source of my fps drops. A lot of people are complaining about fps drop lately

To quote myself from battlenet

Something is wrong for sure, and its not my rig.

i5-2500k @ 4.2GHz
4GB 1866 CL8
7950 crossfire
win7 64 on 128GB SSD
SC2 on 2nd 128GB SSD

In the last 2-3 weeks I've been playing a lot of WoL campaign and having the fps drop as low as 15, and routinely hover in the 30s and 40s accodding to FRAPS. It feels and looks laggy which is why I've been watching the fps closely.

And its not only battles, it happens at the start of levels when there's very few units, and just looking at a background building can make the fps drop. It wasn't like this before.

It happens with crossfire enabled AND with crossfire disabled. I've tried AMD's 13.2 and 13.3 drivers, no difference. I use all highest settings @1080p and it makes no difference if v-sync is on or off I checked.

And nothing has changed on my rig for ages, I have windows update turned off .I hardly have anything running in the background, its a pure gaming rig with a fresh win7 64 install last December.

My other games work the same as they always did, the only thing that has changed is whatever patches/updates SC2 does at startup.

I haven't tried HoTS yet but I got it on release day, still playing WoL. And I don't play online so I can't comment on that.

Come on BLIZZARD get this great game working again.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I jumped to conclusions about 7950 CF being the source of my fps drops. A lot of people are complaining about fps drop lately
> 
> To quote myself from battlenet
> 
> Something is wrong for sure, and its not my rig.
> 
> i5-2500k @ 4.2GHz
> 4GB 1866 CL8
> 7950 crossfire
> win7 64 on 128GB SSD
> SC2 on 2nd 128GB SSD
> 
> In the last 2-3 weeks I've been playing a lot of WoL campaign and having the fps drop as low as 15, and routinely hover in the 30s and 40s accodding to FRAPS. It feels and looks laggy which is why I've been watching the fps closely.
> 
> And its not only battles, it happens at the start of levels when there's very few units, and just looking at a background building can make the fps drop. It wasn't like this before.
> 
> It happens with crossfire enabled AND with crossfire disabled. I've tried AMD's 13.2 and 13.3 drivers, no difference. I use all highest settings @1080p and it makes no difference if v-sync is on or off I checked.
> 
> And nothing has changed on my rig for ages, I have windows update turned off .I hardly have anything running in the background, its a pure gaming rig with a fresh win7 64 install last December.
> 
> My other games work the same as they always did, the only thing that has changed is whatever patches/updates SC2 does at startup.
> 
> I haven't tried HoTS yet but I got it on release day, still playing WoL. And I don't play online so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Come on BLIZZARD get this great game working again.


Strange. I guess I'm lucky? I haven't had any fps issues usually pushing over 100 with all settings maxed out. However I have been getting graphic glitches on daybreak and bel'shir vestige. Very annoying stuff happening to me on those 2 maps. Almost siezure stuff.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Is it just me, or is it easier to play a Brutal mission than it is to try to earn the Mastery achievement for a mission on Hard?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I jumped to conclusions about 7950 CF being the source of my fps drops. A lot of people are complaining about fps drop lately
> 
> To quote myself from battlenet
> 
> Something is wrong for sure, and its not my rig.
> 
> i5-2500k @ 4.2GHz
> 4GB 1866 CL8
> 7950 crossfire
> win7 64 on 128GB SSD
> SC2 on 2nd 128GB SSD
> 
> In the last 2-3 weeks I've been playing a lot of WoL campaign and having the fps drop as low as 15, and routinely hover in the 30s and 40s accodding to FRAPS. It feels and looks laggy which is why I've been watching the fps closely.
> 
> And its not only battles, it happens at the start of levels when there's very few units, and just looking at a background building can make the fps drop. It wasn't like this before.
> 
> It happens with crossfire enabled AND with crossfire disabled. I've tried AMD's 13.2 and 13.3 drivers, no difference. I use all highest settings @1080p and it makes no difference if v-sync is on or off I checked.
> 
> And nothing has changed on my rig for ages, I have windows update turned off .I hardly have anything running in the background, its a pure gaming rig with a fresh win7 64 install last December.
> 
> My other games work the same as they always did, the only thing that has changed is whatever patches/updates SC2 does at startup.
> 
> I haven't tried HoTS yet but I got it on release day, still playing WoL. And I don't play online so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Come on BLIZZARD get this great game working again.


If you're overclocking your GPU that may be the problem. I had issues with the game occasionally dropping to a constant ~15 FPS and appcrashes in SC2 when I recently increased the OC on my 7950, after installing a better cooler for it. I can easily get my card to about 1035 MHz and it will run all other games, as well as maintaining Furmark temps of below 80C. However, SC2 will not run well consistently at anything above 900 MHz or so.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Strange. I guess I'm lucky? I haven't had any fps issues usually pushing over 100 with all settings maxed out. However I have been getting graphic glitches on daybreak and bel'shir vestige. Very annoying stuff happening to me on those 2 maps. Almost siezure stuff.


What is everyone's fps onboard the ship, in the armory it feels laggy and the fps were from 40-50 when looking at spidermines. That ain't right, it had the same feel and lag look as in game. The fps are different all over the ship, ***? And clicking on the menu made it go back to v-synced 60-62 so says FRAPS. All this now was for +1hour with crossfire disabled, this time I'm going to monitor CPU usage.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> If you're overclocking your GPU that may be the problem. I had issues with the game occasionally dropping to a constant ~15 FPS and appcrashes in SC2 when I recently increased the OC on my 7950, after installing a better cooler for it. I can easily get my card to about 1035 MHz and it will run all other games, as well as maintaining Furmark temps of below 80C. However, SC2 will not run well consistently at anything above 900 MHz or so.


No I'm not OCing a 7950 crossfire to play SC, 1 card is 880 stock and the other 900, so with afterburner I set them to 900, but I did check with both at 880 yesterday, same thing.

But again, I can't remember when this problem started, but I've been playing a lot of WoL this last 10 days or so, and I sure never noticed major problems like this since I got it as a digital DL Feb 15th

My CPU/RAM OC passed 16hours of P95 blend until I stopped it, so it shouldn't be that either, gararenntted its related to something battlenet sent as an update.


----------



## MKUL7R4

I need to seriously just relax when I ladder, I'm turning into Idra minus the skills...

some Protoss pylons my natural so I take my 2nd at a different spot, he proceeds to cannon my ramp and my 2nd base at the same time. I fend that off with roaches and do some damage to him...

wait for it...

he transitions into void rays and DT's. I'm pretty confident that was the epitome of cheesy plays. FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I need to seriously just relax when I ladder, I'm turning into Idra minus the skills...
> 
> some Protoss pylons my natural so I take my 2nd at a different spot, he proceeds to cannon my ramp and my 2nd base at the same time. I fend that off with roaches and do some damage to him...
> 
> wait for it...
> 
> he transitions into void rays and DT's. I'm pretty confident that was the epitome of cheesy plays. FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


11-12 ovie pool or 14-15p/15h or simply scout with drone and ovie around there and do 15h15p


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Just as a check I put the CPU and ram back to stock, no effect. In the Odin mission, the fps was stuck at on 20 for quite a bit of the mission, with lots of 30-50

Here's a snap of usages when I alt-tabbed out in the middle of a battle



For a 2 core game, does that look right? Some people on battlenet have talked about the game only using 1 core in some cases. Looks like I'm not running out of ram just yet, at least not on that mission



Here's usage after exiting game, with CPU/RAM OC back on, and I wasn't watching fraps at all but it felt reasonable on the Mobius Factor-brutal


THats quite different, I got pwned, 1st time playing that level on brutal, but it felt smooth


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I need to seriously just relax when I ladder, I'm turning into Idra minus the skills...
> 
> some Protoss pylons my natural so I take my 2nd at a different spot, he proceeds to cannon my ramp and my 2nd base at the same time. I fend that off with roaches and do some damage to him...
> 
> wait for it...
> 
> he transitions into void rays and DT's. I'm pretty confident that was the epitome of cheesy plays. FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


I feel your pain, this kind of thing makes me rage like crazy. The most important thing is to drop a creep tumor near your main ramp as soon as your first queen pops and to spread as much creep as possible into the natural. Keep making queens, since you'll likely be larvae capped, and then you can kill the cannons with spines.

I really need to start drone scouting protoss though. I've never tried but I feel like dropping a proxy hatch in their main should be pretty effective way to deal with this.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I need to seriously just relax when I ladder, I'm turning into Idra minus the skills...
> 
> some Protoss pylons my natural so I take my 2nd at a different spot, he proceeds to cannon my ramp and my 2nd base at the same time. I fend that off with roaches and do some damage to him...
> 
> wait for it...
> 
> he transitions into void rays and DT's. I'm pretty confident that was the epitome of cheesy plays. FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I feel your pain, this kind of thing makes me rage like crazy. The most important thing is to drop a creep tumor near your main ramp as soon as your first queen pops and to spread as much creep as possible into the natural. Keep making queens, since you'll likely be larvae capped, and then you can kill the cannons with spines.
> 
> I really need to start drone scouting protoss though. I've never tried but I feel like dropping a proxy hatch in their main should be pretty effective way to deal with this.


Yes a proxy hatch at the enemy natural or near their nat is an excellent reaction. Reduces travel time of roaches and gives for damn near insta win..... so long as they dont have a bunch of energy banked on that silly mothership core. IMO just out of the range of vision at enemy natural is best place as they will usually go for an expansion after some cheese play like this resulting in them losing even more money when your proxy roaches start streaming in.


----------



## kelc

going pool first is also a good strat to counter protoss pylon at your nat while getting map control and forcing protoss to put a cannon down to defend. you're basically guaranteed your second base while having units available to be aggressive or map control.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Yes a proxy hatch at the enemy natural or near their nat is an excellent reaction. Reduces travel time of roaches and gives for damn near insta win..... so long as they dont have a bunch of energy banked on that silly mothership core. IMO just out of the range of vision at enemy natural is best place as they will usually go for an expansion after some cheese play like this resulting in them losing even more money when your proxy roaches start streaming in.


I was actually thinking to drop it in a corner of their main away from the ramp. If they do spot it and do not have their gate yet, they may try to kill it with probes or cannons. Either way it means a lot of lost mining time and/or minerals. If they do not scout it, you have a lot of options. If they do, going double proxy hatch (one in main, one in natural) may be an interesting way to go.

The proxy hatch coupled with a carefully timed attack at their ramp should be enough to finish them off.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I really need to start drone scouting protoss though. I've never tried but I feel like dropping a proxy hatch in their main should be pretty effective way to deal with this.


It is. I stick a hatch in their base whenever they do this to me. If they dont scout it, they lose. If they do, they lose a lot of mining time usually trying to kill it with probes. If they use cannons to try and kill it, just cancel it and move.


----------



## Anti!!

I personally know a High masters player that will do it against a greedy toss. If they nexus first he will plant a hatch in the way of their forge, and gateway, a rush a few lings in. It is hilarious.

The creep idea was kinda funny as pylon blocks will happen before queens are even out, but a proxy hatch would be good. You could pump as many roaches as you would in your main.


----------



## Anti!!

I personally know a High masters player that will do it against a greedy toss. If they nexus first he will plant a hatch in the way of their forge, and gateway, a rush a few lings in. It is hilarious.

The creep idea was kinda funny as pylon blocks will happen before queens are even out, but a proxy hatch would be good. You could pump as many roaches as you would in your main.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I personally know a High masters player that will do it against a greedy toss. If they nexus first he will plant a hatch in the way of their forge, and gateway, a rush a few lings in. It is hilarious.
> 
> The creep idea was kinda funny as pylon blocks will happen before queens are even out, but a proxy hatch would be good. You could pump as many roaches as you would in your main.


I go nexus first .. quite often almost always actually lol..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I go nexus first .. quite often almost always actually lol..


LOL

ON another note. Sainesk. I have made the OCnet clan now.

I was wondering if i could make it legit. I dont want the owners of Overclock.net to rage cause we made a clan with their name without consulting them. Would you mind helping me get through the red tape. If they get mad Ill disband it, but i would be more than willing to run it.

I just wanted the name reserved. I believe we have plenty of good regulars here that could make this a thriving community. Let me know pls.









I have sent two invites out, but the rest can just request here.


----------



## Qu1ckset

i don't know why ive never played with the oracle before, such a sick unit, so key for early harass and detector if your went all air, instead of a robo based build!


----------



## AblueXKRS

I don't get swarmlings at _all_.

3 lings for 2 supply? That's LESS than normal. Instant spawn? So what?


----------



## Anti!!

This game is soooo pissing me off.


----------



## DoomDash

In the hospital with my new born baby in the nicu so I guess I won't be getting much practice in before our tournament.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Man protoss players are starting to take over, more and more, over been up against a team full of toss players and every ladder of the leagues I'm in are full of toss players.. top 8 usually has 4... i hope blizzard doesn't decide to nuff anything...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> In the hospital with my new born baby in the nicu so I guess I won't be getting much practice in before our tournament.


Was it a preemie? I hope everything is ok. I know my nerves were racked when my two were born. I would die if anything was wrong with them. I hope all goes well!

That is the thing. Us dads have to be dads first. So, our advantage is gone.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I personally know a High masters player that will do it against a greedy toss. If they nexus first he will plant a hatch in the way of their forge, and gateway, a rush a few lings in. It is hilarious.
> 
> The creep idea was kinda funny as pylon blocks will happen before queens are even out, but a proxy hatch would be good. You could pump as many roaches as you would in your main.


Obviously the creep idea wasn't meant to prevent a pylon block, but rather to stop them from building additional cannons if they manage to take your natural.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Man protoss players are starting to take over, more and more, over been up against a team full of toss players and every ladder of the leagues I'm in are full of toss players.. top 8 usually has 4... i hope blizzard doesn't decide to nuff anything...


----------



## SeD669

Quote:


> Was it a preemie? I hope everything is ok. I know my nerves were racked when my two were born. I would die if anything was wrong with them. I hope all goes well!


I think that's premature berth


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> In the hospital with my new born baby in the nicu so I guess I won't be getting much practice in before our tournament.


COngrats dude! What race will the baby play?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Man protoss players are starting to take over, more and more, over been up against a team full of toss players and every ladder of the leagues I'm in are full of toss players.. top 8 usually has 4... i hope blizzard doesn't decide to nuff anything...


That's because protoss is EZ mode. nerf's definitely a comin!


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> COngrats dude! What race will the baby play?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because protoss is EZ mode. nerf's definitely a comin!


Lol.. Defiantly not. Just make swarm host corruptor..
Check out this game >http://www.twitch.tv/lagtvmaximusblack/c/2022949
The game is played poorly by both but you get the gist of it.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Lol.. Defiantly not. Just make swarm host corruptor..
> Check out this game >http://www.twitch.tv/lagtvmaximusblack/c/2022949
> The game is played poorly by both but you get the gist of it.


If anything Zerg is in very decent position against Toss currently, yes they might do a minor tweak on Void's but they're not as bad as everyone seems to claim , if anything maybe a small buff to toss in other area might be needed. Well and some sort of nerf to terrans. Hard to comment on race you play yourself tho aka Z here


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> If anything Zerg is in very decent position against Toss currently, yes they might do a minor tweak on Void's but they're not as bad as everyone seems to claim , if anything maybe a small buff to toss in other area might be needed. Well and some sort of nerf to terrans. Hard to comment on race you play yourself tho aka Z here


Indeed. But serious question: does anyone know how to fight against swarm host corruptor? I will take any advice.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Indeed. But serious question: does anyone know how to fight against swarm host corruptor? I will take any advice.


Swarmhosts come out at 8 to 9 minutes at earliest any pressure before then will delay them. He won't be able to add corruptors for few minutes until he reaches the point of wanted 8-16 SH ~12m in or so. Until then zerg is quite vulnerable and i must say everyone except blade/rek does the SH's terrible , even myself though it works rather well against almost any toss (i'm only in Gold after all). Also be careful of emerging 2 base nydus SH builds floating around.


----------



## SageQi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> If anything Zerg is in very decent position against Toss currently, yes they might do a minor tweak on Void's but they're not as bad as everyone seems to claim , if anything maybe a small buff to toss in other area might be needed. Well and some sort of nerf to terrans. Hard to comment on race you play yourself tho aka Z here


I play terran and I even say T is imba right now. If you go onto sc2ranks.com u'll see that out of the top 5 right now most are terran. The unit composition of MMM + W(mine) + H(hellbat) is extremely good. With the speed buff for medivacs... It's nearly impossible to defend multi pronged drops on your base.


----------



## TwistedTime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I don't get swarmlings at _all_.
> 
> 3 lings for 2 supply? That's LESS than normal. Instant spawn? So what?


It is actually 1.5 supply, but the game doesn't do decimals so it rounds it up. Not like that is much of a problem. Swarmlings are also supposed to be more mineral and larvaa efficient compared raptors.

While instant lings could be good for defense in a pinch. I used deep tunnelling swarm host for that instead.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Obviously the creep idea wasn't meant to prevent a pylon block, but rather to stop them from building additional cannons if they manage to take your natural.


Apparently it wasnt obvious enough. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Was it a preemie? I hope everything is ok. I know my nerves were racked when my two were born. I would die if anything was wrong with them. I hope all goes well!
> 
> That is the thing. Us dads have to be dads first. So, our advantage is gone.


He was born exactly at 37 weeks. We predicted early. I dont even want to take him home until his problem has gone away.

He can play any race he wants besides Protoss ;-). If they add the reaver and replace colossus in legacy of the void he can play toss.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He was born exactly at 37 weeks. We predicted early. I dont even want to take him home until his problem has gone away.
> 
> He can play any race he wants besides Protoss ;-). If they add the reaver and replace colossus in legacy of the void he can play toss.


Amen to that! haha


----------



## Qu1ckset

So you guys think the voids will be nerfed, any other units you think will be nerfed for any of the three races?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> So you guys think the voids will be nerfed, any other units you think will be nerfed for any of the three races?


I don't think voids will be nerfed but I think the duration of their spell/cooldown definitely needs some revision.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I don't think voids will be nerfed but I think the duration of their spell/cooldown definitely needs some revision.


Small tweak yes i agree other than that i would agree.


----------



## 13321G4

I think voids are stupid. The way they are designed just seems flawed. They are similar to what hydra's were in WOL. High dps but there is no way you can run with them.

Units that scale when you micro them are so much more fun.


----------



## jellybeans69

Reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sR4kyv4vS_Q#t=8s


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sR4kyv4vS_Q#t=8s


LOL that happened to me in a 2v2.


----------



## lapengu

Hey I dont know if any of you are having trouble with ZvZ builds, but here is something i found on AllThingsZerg. I decided to try it out it and it worked miraculously!







Best way around the muta war at the moment i think.

Basically you just get +1 carapace to defend from baneling all ins, then once your +1 attack finishes, you go kill them









Here is a replay in case any of you wanted to see (keep in mind I am only plat)









http://drop.sc/324588


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> Hey I dont know if any of you are having trouble with ZvZ builds, but here is something i found on AllThingsZerg. I decided to try it out it and it worked miraculously!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best way around the muta war at the moment i think.
> 
> Basically you just get +1 carapace to defend from baneling all ins, then once your +1 attack finishes, you go kill them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a replay in case any of you wanted to see (keep in mind I am only plat)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/324588


Saw LzGamer do a fast 3 base + like 3 extra macro hatches, got 1-1 and destroyed the guy with pure lings before he could even get to mutas


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Saw LzGamer do a fast 3 base + like 3 extra macro hatches, got 1-1 and destroyed the guy with pure lings before he could even get to mutas


Thats what ive been trying to do lately. If you keep upgrading your lings, they wont ever get their mutas out of their base!







Works very well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> So you guys think the voids will be nerfed, any other units you think will be nerfed for any of the three races?


I think widow mines, hellbats, medivacs, swarm hosts, tempests, oracles, viper,voidrays.

Buffs: siege tank, ghost.


----------



## CravinR1

So blizzard thinks my zew2500p WiFi adapter is causing my troubles. Someone send me the link to a good wireless adapter for my desktop


----------



## burwij

Did you try running Memtest like I suggested a couple of pages back? I was working on a PC a while back that had an issue installing Win XP SP3 because the installer gave an error - turns out one of the sticks of RAM was bad.

Might as well rule out everything on the hardware end before you go spend any more money.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So blizzard thinks my zew2500p WiFi adapter is causing my troubles. Someone send me the link to a good wireless adapter for my desktop


Obviously its going to depend on your router. 2.4ghz/5ghz, simultaneous dual band, distance to router, brand of router?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think widow mines, hellbats, medivacs, swarm hosts, tempests, oracles, viper,voidrays.
> 
> Buffs: siege tank, ghost.


You really think they're gonna buff siege which already has free deploy?


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think widow mines, hellbats, medivacs, swarm hosts, tempests, oracles, viper,voidrays.
> 
> Buffs: siege tank, ghost.


I don't think that swarm hosts need a nerf... They're pretty much useless as it is.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think widow mines, hellbats, medivacs, swarm hosts, tempests, oracles, viper,voidrays.
> 
> Buffs: siege tank, ghost.


Umm, Window Mines I can see can adjusted, hellbats and medivacs I don't see anything wrong with, swarmhost and vipers I rarly see used so I don't see them being adjusted unless for the better possible... tempest I think are fair, a lot of decent units to counter them, oracles I dunno I just started using them and i think it's a fine line.. but cud take a little adjusting possibly, and voids I can agree can be cheap.

When I first saw the heart of the swarm new units, i thought protoss got the short end of the stick but after playing the game I think they got the most improvements out of the three races and terran coming in at second with useful stuff like widow mines, but zerg I don't see to much improvement, the ultralisk update was nice but imo the swarmhost and viper suck and seem useless, (at least for all the leagues and games I've play)

I'm curious to see the future updates for balancing and new units of the next expansion


----------



## Ergates

Finally got through a long losing streak. Man that sucked, or rather I do. Affects your entire mental outlook.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Umm, Window Mines I can see can adjusted, hellbats and medivacs I don't see anything wrong with, swarmhost and vipers I rarly see used so I don't see them being adjusted unless for the better possible... tempest I think are fair, a lot of decent units to counter them, oracles I dunno I just started using them and i think it's a fine line.. but cud take a little adjusting possibly, and voids I can agree can be cheap.
> 
> When I first saw the heart of the swarm new units, i thought protoss got the short end of the stick but after playing the game I think they got the most improvements out of the three races and terran coming in at second with useful stuff like widow mines, but zerg I don't see to much improvement, the ultralisk update was nice but imo the swarmhost and *viper suck* and seem useless, (at least for all the leagues and games I've play)
> 
> I'm curious to see the future updates for balancing and new units of the next expansion


The viper doesnt suck. It is what allows Zerg to go Roach Hydra against Protoss deathballs now. You just micro a bit and pull in the colossus, archons, immortals, and then the roach hydra will crush through the gateway armies. Ive also seen swarmhosts utilized with nydus worms and lots of spines. However i think that requires a bit too much APM for the cost efficiency of the strategy. Having to constantly unload units from the nydus, burrow and unburrow your Swarm hosts just isnt worth the effort when you could go ultra ling hydra corrupter. Thats been my build against Protoss lately.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> You really think they're gonna buff siege which already has free deploy?


Yes. In hots as is the tank is only used in one MU commonly by pros. I'm thinking slight upgrades in upgrade levels so they are slightly more potent as the game goes on.

As for everything else I think they will all be slightly nerfed eventually when people start to get used to them. Swqrm hosts and vipers are extremely good they just arent used enough yet.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes. In hots as is the tank is only used in one MU commonly by pros. I'm thinking slight upgrades in upgrade levels so they are slightly more potent as the game goes on.
> 
> As for everything else I think they will all be slightly nerfed eventually when people start to get used to them. Swqrm hosts and vipers are extremely good they just arent used enough yet.


If mines get nerfed abit i believe tanks might get used more. Swarmhosts will see some kind of buff tho i agree they're good, i agree they're good but something like movement speed buff/burrow speed buff might be neccesary. Small nerf on voids, about templars i doubt they gonna be changed in any way not now at least.
Vipers suck lol? They're like the most awesome addition to our units in Hots


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> I don't think that swarm hosts need a nerf... They're pretty much useless as it is.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Umm, Window Mines I can see can adjusted, hellbats and medivacs *I don't see anything wrong with, swarmhost and vipers I rarly see used so I don't see them being adjusted unless for the better possible...* tempest I think are fair, a lot of decent units to counter them, oracles I dunno I just started using them and i think it's a fine line.. but cud take a little adjusting possibly, and voids I can agree can be cheap.
> 
> When I first saw the heart of the swarm new units, i thought protoss got the short end of the stick but after playing the game I think they got the most improvements out of the three races and terran coming in at second with useful stuff like widow mines, but zerg I don't see to much improvement, the ultralisk update was nice but imo the swarmhost and viper suck and seem useless, (at least for all the leagues and games I've play)
> 
> I'm curious to see the future updates for balancing and new units of the next expansion


Go watch day9s daily 570 and tell me if swarm hosts and vipers are useless. You will rethink that if you actually watch all three parts in their entirety.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Go watch day9s daily 570 and tell me if swarm hosts and vipers are useless. You will rethink that if you actually watch all three parts in their entirety.


Il definitely check it out when I get home from work, but I've rarely seen swarm hosts used and only have seen vipers used once and got killed quickly, but im mostly playing 3v3 in platinum league, im sure diamond and master league is completely different game strats...


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Obviously its going to depend on your router. 2.4ghz/5ghz, simultaneous dual band, distance to router, brand of router?


I am about 15' from my router with no walls. I have the dual band Asus RT-N56U which I got when it was on sale for $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320062

Everything on my pc is fine. My laptop downloads and runs the client with no issues (ruling out the router) but my primary PC can't. My blizzard support ticket they said my drivers for my wireless NIC were way outdated and that is probably why I couldn't connect. I sent them my MSINFO and my directx information files.

So either help me find a suitable driver for a zonet 2500p or suggest a decent wireless network adapter if possible.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Il definitely check it out when I get home from work, but I've rarely seen swarm hosts used and only have seen vipers used once and got killed quickly, but im mostly playing 3v3 in platinum league, im sure diamond and master league is completely different game strats...


Master league 1v1 strategies are vastly different from Platinum 3v3 strats...

that being said I'm in Diamond and I never use Swarm Hosts. I'm going to start trying tonight though, just read about Swarm Host builds vs Protoss on Teamliquid


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I am about 15' from my router with no walls. I have the dual band Asus RT-N56U which I got when it was on sale for $55
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320062
> 
> Everything on my pc is fine. My laptop downloads and runs the client with no issues (ruling out the router) but my primary PC can't. My blizzard support ticket they said my drivers for my wireless NIC were way outdated and that is probably why I couldn't connect. I sent them my MSINFO and my directx information files.
> 
> So either help me find a suitable driver for a zonet 2500p or suggest a decent wireless network adapter if possible.


I use a dual band wireless card on my desktop to play online in sc2. Ill get the model number and stuff for you tonight.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Master league 1v1 strategies are vastly different from Platinum 3v3 strats...
> 
> that being said I'm in Diamond and I never use Swarm Hosts. I'm going to start trying tonight though, just read about Swarm Host builds vs Protoss on Teamliquid


Swarmhost/hydra paired with a couple queens/spines and spores can be extremely effective in containing your enemy. I've seen it in done by some masters players in 1v1 koth.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Swarmhost/hydra paired with a couple queens/spines and spores can be extremely effective in containing your enemy. I've seen it in done by some masters players in 1v1 koth.


PLLELEEEEAAASSSE go watch that daily. ROOTCatz is not the best player but he uses that to the fullest. Its rather crazy to see. It is really effective too. I am glad to see these different builds being possible with the new HoTs units. I dont have to always wait on the gglords anymore.

Before they start nerfing and buffing I want them to let the pro scene completely digest all this stuff and let it mature to see what it brings. Only time will tell. People will eventually find what is the best because that will be all we see people use and then Blizzard will have concrete evidence to nerf and buff with.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> PLLELEEEEAAASSSE go watch that daily. ROOTCatz is not the best player but he uses that to the fullest. Its rather crazy to see. It is really effective too. I am glad to see these different builds being possible with the new HoTs units. I dont have to always wait on the gglords anymore.
> 
> Before they start nerfing and buffing I want them to let the pro scene completely digest all this stuff and let it mature to see what it brings. Only time will tell. People will eventually find what is the best because that will be all we see people use and then Blizzard will have concrete evidence to nerf and buff with.


Reketan/blade are two GM players who use SH quite alooot.


----------



## Shadeh

Wow. I've been trading that people think terran is over powered. I disagree. And even if they are it is definitely not the widow mine. Watch a few top players, often you will see how well some do countering widow mins. I hardly ever watch pvt match ups though. But widow mine is not as effective vs them as they are vs zerg. I love them for oracles though. I would wait for the game to develop some more before we call everything op


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Wow. I've been trading that people think terran is over powered. I disagree. And even if they are it is definitely not the widow mine. Watch a few top players, often you will see how well some do countering widow mins. I hardly ever watch pvt match ups though. But widow mine is not as effective vs them as they are vs zerg. I love them for oracles though. I would wait for the game to develop some more before we call everything op


Many peoples' opinions here (Including my own) are invalid anyways because they're not at the highest level of play, which is really what the game should be balanced around.

I was crying "nerf medivacs" during the earlier stages of MLG....then life won







Now I've learned to just keep quiet about balance because I can't honestly say I have any idea what I'm talking about.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Many peoples' opinions here (Including my own) are invalid anyways because they're not at the highest level of play, which is really what the game should be balanced around.
> 
> I was crying "nerf medivacs" during the earlier stages of MLG....then life won
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've learned to just keep quiet about balance because I can't honestly say I have any idea what I'm talking about.


This.. way this.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> This.. way this.


wanna do some 2s tonight?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> PLLELEEEEAAASSSE go watch that daily. ROOTCatz is not the best player but he uses that to the fullest. Its rather crazy to see. It is really effective too. I am glad to see these different builds being possible with the new HoTs units. I dont have to always wait on the gglords anymore.
> 
> Before they start nerfing and buffing I want them to let the pro scene completely digest all this stuff and let it mature to see what it brings. Only time will tell. People will eventually find what is the best because that will be all we see people use and then Blizzard will have concrete evidence to nerf and buff with.


Just watched it most of it and I must say quite interesting with the use of infestor in there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Wow. I've been trading that people think terran is over powered. I disagree. And even if they are it is definitely not the widow mine. Watch a few top players, often you will see how well some do countering widow mins. I hardly ever watch pvt match ups though. But widow mine is not as effective vs them as they are vs zerg. I love them for oracles though. I would wait for the game to develop some more before we call everything op


Very true. Many high level players can easily deal with widow mines including regular ol average diamond league players. They aren't the end all be all unit but..... (continue below)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Many peoples' opinions here (Including my own) are invalid anyways because they're not at the highest level of play, which is really what the game should be balanced around.
> 
> I was crying "nerf medivacs" during the earlier stages of MLG....then life won
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've learned to just keep quiet about balance because I can't honestly say I have any idea what I'm talking about.


Well said. We are just a bunch of n00bs with many holes and leaks in our gameplay whether it be mechanics, strategy, game sense or decision making. However I have spoken to many high level players(top masters and a couple GM's) and the general consensus is that widow mines are a bit OP, their splash radius needs to be nerfed and that is coming from some terran players even. That being said the general consensus is also that Terran is the hardest race to play therefore the highest level terran players are just that much more skilled than other races of the similar rank...... and yes..... I play terran, we are the master race. Kappa


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I use a dual band wireless card on my desktop to play online in sc2. Ill get the model number and stuff for you tonight.


That would be a great help


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I am about 15' from my router with no walls. I have the dual band Asus RT-N56U which I got when it was on sale for $55
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320062
> 
> Everything on my pc is fine. My laptop downloads and runs the client with no issues (ruling out the router) but my primary PC can't. My blizzard support ticket they said my drivers for my wireless NIC were way outdated and that is probably why I couldn't connect. I sent them my MSINFO and my directx information files.
> 
> So either help me find a suitable driver for a zonet 2500p or suggest a decent wireless network adapter if possible.


I use this wireless card on my desktop: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320113

It has worked better than other cards I've used in the past. I would ignore the bad reviews about driver support, as those people don't know what they're talking about. The card works great in Windows 7 and Windows 8 driver has been out for a long time already.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> wanna do some 2s tonight?


I would love to. It depends when I get home.

@ CravinR1

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166073

I have had no issues.


----------



## CravinR1

Anti your NIC is discontinued









Found it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-300Mbps-Wireless-Adapter-RNX-N250PCe/dp/B006WWMZSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366232925&sr=8-1&keywords=RNWD-11005

Wish me luck !

Chaotic how often do you play sc2 and any disconnects?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anti your NIC is discontinued
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found it here:
> http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-300Mbps-Wireless-Adapter-RNX-N250PCe/dp/B006WWMZSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366232925&sr=8-1&keywords=RNWD-11005
> 
> Wish me luck !
> 
> Chaotic how often do you play sc2 and any disconnects?


Up until the last couple weeks I used to play several hours almost every day and had maybe two disconnects during the last 6 months.

More recently, I have had disconnects on a daily basis but am 99% sure it was a problem with my ISP only and not the adapter (obvious throttling, other computers also slow). I had FIOS installed this morning so I'll know for certain tonight.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I would love to. It depends when I get home.


let's do some


----------



## poroboszcz

I think it's a good thing that Blizzard takes their time with balance changes. It seem that with HotS the game has gained some more depth and it's going to take a while before different strats get figured out. If I were to predict any nerfs I'd say swarm hosts and widow mines. I feel like I get some wins and loses I don't deserve with both. I'd prefer to see more buffs then nerfs though. Like something with zerg AA to help them deal with mutas and skytoss for example.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> let's do some


Lol!

Still at work.


----------



## lapengu

Well after the discussion of swarm hosts came up.. I tried mass swarm host vs a meching terran. AND OH MY GOD. They are sooo good vs mech.







Just burrow, spawn, unburrow, move back, repeat.







Beat my first diamond in hots doing that.


----------



## Qu1ckset

honest when using airtoss mass ravens are so freaking annoying !!


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anti your NIC is discontinued
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found it here:
> http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-300Mbps-Wireless-Adapter-RNX-N250PCe/dp/B006WWMZSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366232925&sr=8-1&keywords=RNWD-11005
> 
> Wish me luck !
> 
> Chaotic how often do you play sc2 and any disconnects?
> 
> 
> 
> Up until the last couple weeks I used to play several hours almost every day and had maybe two disconnects during the last 6 months.
> 
> More recently, I have had disconnects on a daily basis but am 99% sure it was a problem with my ISP only and not the adapter (obvious throttling, other computers also slow). I had FIOS installed this morning so I'll know for certain tonight.
Click to expand...

Just confirming that the problems were in fact just the ISP and not the NIC. I really recommend it, particularly since it's a dual-band adapter. It's also the only card I've used over the course of several adapter/router combinations that has consistently given me speeds of 300 Mbps.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think it's a good thing that Blizzard takes their time with balance changes. It seem that with HotS the game has gained some more depth and it's going to take a while before different strats get figured out. If I were to predict any nerfs I'd say swarm hosts and widow mines. I feel like I get some wins and loses I don't deserve with both. I'd prefer to see more buffs then nerfs though. Like something with zerg AA to help them deal with mutas and skytoss for example.


Okay.. but this is only the way you see it. You could say that widow mines have given you undeserved wins. Why is that so though?

Your solution? Scout.
- Does he have a war factory? Yes/No
- If he has a war factory does he have reactor or tech lab?
- Okay, he has a reactor, do you see any widow mines (if burrowed obviously not). What about hellions or reapers? If it's a no then you already know what's going on.

Sometimes i feel with protoss/zerg that complain that they are doing so because they're not used to or don't want to adapt to scouting and playing safe. Protoss for instance now might need more than one observer.. zerg players think they have to send in all their units at once(exaggerating). I've had my ass handed to me properly even though i was using widow mines, in fact, i was getting my ass whooped so badly that i decided to ditch widow mine and build something that's not a waste of resources.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I did a fresh win7 install yesterday, still have crappy SC2 campagain performance at times, sad

Playing on brutal isn't that hard anymore on most missions, fun though. I get all the research and usually the 1st 2 achievements, but not usually the hard 1. I haven't finished it yet tho, I the last 3 missions will be insane on brutal


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Okay.. but this is only the way you see it. You could say that widow mines have given you undeserved wins. Why is that so though?
> 
> Your solution? Scout.
> - Does he have a war factory? Yes/No
> - If he has a war factory does he have reactor or tech lab?
> - Okay, he has a reactor, do you see any widow mines (if burrowed obviously not). What about hellions or reapers? If it's a no then you already know what's going on.
> 
> Sometimes i feel with protoss/zerg that complain that they are doing so because they're not used to or don't want to adapt to scouting and playing safe. Protoss for instance now might need more than one observer.. zerg players think they have to send in all their units at once(exaggerating). I've had my ass handed to me properly even though i was using widow mines, in fact, i was getting my ass whooped so badly that i decided to ditch widow mine and build something that's not a waste of resources.


I personally have no real issues with anything Terran, it's my easiest match up actually







. Zerg on the other hand.. I loose to mas muta even though I have a bunch of archons and stalkers, like almost maxed out, and then there is swarm hosts. GG


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I personally have no real issues with anything Terran, it's my easiest match up actually
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Zerg on the other hand.. I loose to mas muta even though I have a bunch of archons and stalkers, like almost maxed out, and then there is swarm hosts. GG


There's an 8 page thread on SC2 eu toss section "Why is Zerg so op"


----------



## DoomDash

Looks like I get to play ROOT.Destiny in the tournament:

http://binarybeast.com/xSC21304181#groupB

Where did all these pros find out about it? Was it posted on TL? *EDIT* Yes I found it.


----------



## MKUL7R4

I'm gonna see if Root.CatZ wants to play our matches tonight


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Looks like I get to play ROOT.Destiny in the tournament:
> 
> http://binarybeast.com/xSC21304181#groupB
> 
> Where did all these pros find out about it? Was it posted on TL? *EDIT* Yes I found it.


And you play Drunkenboi, Rank 3 GM in NA


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Looks like I get to play ROOT.Destiny in the tournament:
> 
> http://binarybeast.com/xSC21304181#groupB
> 
> Where did all these pros find out about it? Was it posted on TL? *EDIT* Yes I found it.


I don't think that is the real Destiny as there is no GM status attached to that account. I believe Destiny was GM at one point in WOL.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I don't think that is the real Destiny as there is no GM status attached to that account. I believe Destiny was GM at one point in WOL.


Correct


----------



## poroboszcz

I think HotS release and now OCN tourney is going to seriously affect my dissertation mark. I have a deadline in 7 days from now. I wake up, drink a lot of coffee, open Word and then leave it opened in the background while I watch streams and play SC2, occasionally browsing for relevant references, mixed with OCN, TL.net and reddit, lol.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I'm gonna see if Root.CatZ wants to play our matches tonight


What your going to play catz? Scout early, he seems to like to cheese.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> I'm gonna see if Root.CatZ wants to play our matches tonight


I hope you would be willing to share the replays with us. Would love to see them especially if you can take a game off him somehow.


----------



## CravinR1

I don't know why anyone is suprised pro's are playing for 2.5k prize. I saw Destiny and Minigun play a 2v2 tournament for only a hundred or so.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> What your going to play catz? Scout early, he seems to like to cheese.


Catz is as likely to go 3 hatch before pool as he is to 7 pool or do a 2 base burrowed roach timing. Thats why he is so strong you can't really metagame.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I don't know why anyone is suprised pro's are playing for 2.5k prize. I saw Destiny and Minigun play a 2v2 tournament for only a hundred or so.
> Catz is as likely to go 3 hatch before pool as he is to 7 pool or do a 2 base burrowed roach timing. Thats why he is so strong you can't really metagame.


The reason we are surprised is because who is dumb enough to spread the word to those kind of players? That pretty much leaves the OCN players ZERO chance to take home the money. I know I surely wouldn't have ever told those kind of players just in hopes of having the tiniest chance and not making it even smaller.

It's like saying "hey guys come take this money from me" free 1000 USD.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> The reason we are surprised is because who is dumb enough to spread the word to those kind of players? That pretty much leaves the OCN players ZERO chance to take home the money. I know I surely wouldn't have ever told those kind of players just in hopes of having the tiniest chance and not making it even smaller.
> 
> It's like saying "hey guys come take this money from me" free 1000 USD.


That's what the OCN-only tournament is for. More big players means more publicity and the possibility to make future tournaments a bigger deal.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> That's what the OCN-only tournament is for. More big players means more publicity and the possibility to make future tournaments a bigger deal.


I understand this and I completely understand if OCN themselves posted of this on TL but I cannot imagine a player who would do that.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> The reason we are surprised is because who is dumb enough to spread the word to those kind of players? That pretty much leaves the OCN players ZERO chance to take home the money. I know I surely wouldn't have ever told those kind of players just in hopes of having the tiniest chance and not making it even smaller.
> 
> It's like saying "hey guys come take this money from me" free 1000 USD.


I think the OCN and Comp. bracket prizes should be switched, or, at the very least, the same, for this very reason. Nothing wrong with allowing non-OCN pro players to take part, but if they can walk off with the vast majority of prize pool, dedicated OCNers are kinda stuck with the short end of the stick.

I mean say non-OCN pros take the top 4 slots in the tournament. That's $1,850 (74%) of the total prize pool (and 95% of the open bracket) and rolling out the door and never coming to anyone on OCN.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I think the OCN and Comp. bracket prizes should be switched, or, at the very least, the same, for this very reason. Nothing wrong with allowing non-OCN pro players to take part, but if they can walk off with the vast majority of prize pool, dedicated OCNers are kinda stuck with the short end of the stick.
> 
> I mean say non-OCN pros take the top 4 slots in the tournament. That's $1,850 (74%) of the total prize pool (and 95% of the open bracket) and rolling out the door and never coming to anyone on OCN.


And where do you think this money comes from? Ultimately it's the viewership that matters and nobody's gonna want to watch some random master players from a forum, especially with so much high quality content available on twitch.tv now. The money is there to attract better players so that the event gets more publicity. I think that having an OCN only tournament with prizes is already pretty cool. And if this tournament is successful there's a chance for more similar events.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> And where do you think this money comes from? Ultimately it's the viewership that matters and nobody's gonna want to watch some random master players from a forum, especially with so much high quality content available on twitch.tv now. The money is there to attract better players so that the event gets more publicity. I think that having an OCN only tournament with prizes is already pretty cool. And if this tournament is successful there's a chance for more similar events.


The money comes from the mass amount of traffic on the OCN site itself. I assure you it's not from twitch. Maxblack stated in during his desrow bootcamp that 3k viewers for 8 hours a day for 7 days nets approximately 800 bucks. OCN will not profit much from twitch advertisements. They will have nowhere near that amount of viewers for that duration of time.

If anything the professional players will only discourage others from joining future events. Who wants to compete in something they have no chance in? It's going to be a 4-5 man show.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> And where do you think this money comes from? Ultimately it's the viewership that matters and nobody's gonna want to watch some random master players from a forum, especially with so much high quality content available on twitch.tv now. The money is there to attract better players so that the event gets more publicity. I think that having an OCN only tournament with prizes is already pretty cool. And if this tournament is successful there's a chance for more similar events.


This makes sense if OCN wants to build it's own sort of... I don't know how you'd say it or what you'd title it, but some kind of 24/7 tourney show for something or other... but is that what the point of this tourney is? I can't really say, but I don't think so, seeing this is only happening this once. It might happen again, but it's not guaranteed.


----------



## poroboszcz

You might have noticed that OCN is currently investing into it's overclocktv project and it's definitely not a one time ads revenue from a single tournament where they're looking to make profit.

Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1371626/follow-our-twitch-tv-channel-and-win-steam-games/0_30


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You might have noticed that OCN is currently investing into it's overclocktv project and it's definitely not a one time ads revenue from a single tournament where they're looking to make profit.
> 
> Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1371626/follow-our-twitch-tv-channel-and-win-steam-games/0_30


Yes I realize that but you asked where the money comes from. I am simply stating that the money is not coming from twitch. It takes a long time to build a viewer base in the range of the thousands and even if they did streaming 8 hours a day for 1 week with ~3k viewers will bring in a measly $800. Nowhere near enough to cover the cost of the prize pool.

So lets say that the final of this tournament is streamed and lasts 8-10 hours. That would net about $100-110 if they had in the 3k viewer range which I think it is pretty safe to assume that they will not reach that high of a viewer count on their very first tournament. AND this is all assuming that they are partnered with twitch.... which they are not. So in all reality they are going to make $0 from twitch.


----------



## Anti!!

The overall goal is to get more attention to overclock.net.


----------



## Anti!!

Frick! double post


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> The reason we are surprised is because who is dumb enough to spread the word to those kind of players? That pretty much leaves the OCN players ZERO chance to take home the money. I know I surely wouldn't have ever told those kind of players just in hopes of having the tiniest chance and not making it even smaller.
> 
> It's like saying "hey guys come take this money from me" free 1000 USD.


the tournament organizer posted a thread on TeamLiquid...


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> the tournament organizer posted a thread on TeamLiquid...


Yes I have since looked it up on TL. That is totally understandable. If it were a player that would be a whole different story


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> There's an 8 page thread on SC2 eu toss section "Why is Zerg so op"


I've never been one to cry OP, but I am not surprised to say the least


----------



## DoomDash

Going to try and play my match vs [FXO]Drunkenboi tonight. Wish me luck. #3 GM in NA ....


----------



## AblueXKRS

Good luck, Doom.









I am totally rooting for you


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Going to try and play my match vs [FXO]Drunkenboi tonight. Wish me luck. #3 GM in NA ....


Good luck doom! would love to see a replay especially if you take a game. Go for dat cheeze!!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Going to try and play my match vs [FXO]Drunkenboi tonight. Wish me luck. #3 GM in NA ....


Its all good man. We should have just done OCN div i guess. No one knew that kind of skill would be in the tourney.

Isnt it double elimination though?


----------



## yks

dudes. i suck now. silver in team games. LOL


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> dudes. i suck now. silver in team games. LOL


what were you before? Also team games are a gamble with those random teammates


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> what were you before? Also team games are a gamble with those random teammates


masters in teams with the randoms


----------



## DoomDash

Got owned 0-2 in like 30 min.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Got owned 0-2 in like 30 min.










it's ok don't feel bad it was against drunkeboi yes?


----------



## Anti!!

LOL insult to injury...



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> dudes. i suck now. silver in team games. LOL


HERP WoW Derp WoW derp herp is why. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's ok don't feel bad it was against drunkeboi yes?


Yes. It wasn't close at all. I am so bad at scouting, and mech doesn't help me scout much.


----------



## CravinR1

Masters vs pro's is like silver vs diamonds.

Its seriously not even the same. These guys play 8-16 hours a day every day. Catz streams for hours daily so of course his timings and game sense is going to destroy a casual player. Same with drunkboi or any other pro.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Masters vs pro's is like silver vs diamonds.
> 
> Its seriously not even the same. These guys play 8-16 hours a day every day. Catz streams for hours daily so of course his timings and game sense is going to destroy a casual player. Same with drunkboi or any other pro.


Yep. It is rather discouraging really. Why do I even try for masters. Lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yep. It is rather discouraging really. Why do I even try for masters. Lol


Why not?


----------



## jellybeans69

Anyone know what "World Rank" means here? Maybe higher "hidden" mmr?

http://sc2ranks.com/div/374295/#worldrank:0

Check this division i'm in possibly soon to be promoted to plat (i've been playing sc2 for ~3 weeks now only and haven't played it before







)


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> HERP WoW Derp WoW derp herp is why. lol


DONT WORRY. I'll be up there again soon!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Anyone know what "World Rank" means here? Maybe higher "hidden" mmr?
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/div/374295/#worldrank:0
> 
> Check this division i'm in possibly soon to be promoted to plat (i've been playing sc2 for ~3 weeks now only and haven't played it before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


i'm not sure but it says my world rank is #475,764 of 4,261,301

so I think that means I'm in the top 11%? sounds good on paper but I still get destroyed by even the lowest of masters players


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> i'm not sure but it says my world rank is #475,764 of 4,261,301
> 
> so I think that means I'm in the top 11%? sounds good on paper but I still get destroyed by even the lowest of masters players


I believe you're looking at achievements world rank have a look at your 1v1 WRank


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Anyone know what "World Rank" means here? Maybe higher "hidden" mmr?
> 
> http://sc2ranks.com/div/374295/#worldrank:0
> 
> Check this division i'm in possibly soon to be promoted to plat (i've been playing sc2 for ~3 weeks now only and haven't played it before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


It's your world rank, based on points, of all the gold players in the world. So world rank 101 means there are 100 players in the world who have more points then you in that league.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I believe you're looking at achievements world rank have a look at your 1v1 WRank


for whatever reason it doesn't show anything for my HotS 1v1, only WoL


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It's your world rank, based on points, of all the gold players in the world. So world rank 101 means there are 100 players in the world who have more points then you in that league.


Ah thought so as much but seems strange there are people with more points in my division but ranked lower than others with less points.

To MKU - make sure you queue refresh in your profile @ sc2ranks

LOL'd

 Poor toss


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> DONT WORRY. I'll be up there again soon!


Good,, we missed ya. lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Why not?


It is just overwhelming.. You will see soon. With kids then tack on having financial issues that require overtime at work or you basically lose everything you got. That doesnt leave much time for staying brushed up. I am actually forced into playing more aggressive builds and if i do enough damage and dont kill them then marcro from that. That truly is not me, but I am reduced to that to just stay in high diamond.

Just how it is in my life right now.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Ah thought so as much but seems strange there are people with more points in my division but ranked lower than others with less points.
> 
> To MKU - make sure you queue refresh in your profile @ sc2ranks
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL'd
> 
> Poor toss


Those are always the most satisfying wins.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Good,, we missed ya. lol
> It is just overwhelming.. You will see soon. With kids then tack on having financial issues that require overtime at work or you basically lose everything you got. That doesnt leave much time for staying brushed up. I am actually forced into playing more aggressive builds and if i do enough damage and dont kill them then marcro from that. That truly is not me, but I am reduced to that to just stay in high diamond.
> 
> Just how it is in my life right now.


I worry about my time now. Trying to keep my wife home as much as possible.


----------



## jellybeans69

After small win-streak at last got my promo to plat please mind i've been playing SC2 for ~20 days only




He mad , he goes drops my nat and gets it , had hidden expansion @ gold minnies , later on he comes with his army for my base and i decide to SH + hydra nydus his base so we trade our bases , then we start to rebuild , go mutas kill few his tanks , he comes after two of my bases mean time blingblings and 8 ultras are coming for his only base. Got my promo after this game.


He's the replay if someone wants to watch hilarious base trading









http://drop.sc/325507


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> After small win-streak at last got my promo to plat please mind i've been playing SC2 for ~20 days only
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He mad , he goes drops my nat and gets it , had hidden expansion @ gold minnies , later on he comes with his army for my base and i decide to SH + hydra nydus his base so we trade our bases , then we start to rebuild , go mutas kill few his tanks , he comes after two of my bases mean time blingblings and 8 ultras are coming for his only base. Got my promo after this game.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's the replay if someone wants to watch hilarious base trading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/325507


Congrats dude! Plat for only playing 20ish days is pretty damn good!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> After small win-streak at last got my promo to plat please mind i've been playing SC2 for ~20 days only
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He mad , he goes drops my nat and gets it , had hidden expansion @ gold minnies , later on he comes with his army for my base and i decide to SH + hydra nydus his base so we trade our bases , then we start to rebuild , go mutas kill few his tanks , he comes after two of my bases mean time blingblings and 8 ultras are coming for his only base. Got my promo after this game.
> 
> 
> He's the replay if someone wants to watch hilarious base trading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://drop.sc/325507


That is a sickening win streak; obviously way higher than Gold skill


----------



## jellybeans69

Just played my first plat game , strangely enough it's again a base trade situation where i nydus his base and eventually win


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Just played my first plat game , strangely enough it's again a base trade situation where i nydus his base and eventually win


Creative Nydus play is excellent

Recently had a ZvZ where I was 6pool spined, defended it and killed his expansion so I was wayyy ahead. He tried to kill me with tons of roach but I spined my entrance and he ran back. I was banking tons of resources for mutas when suddenly he Nydus's my main and destroys my spire/Lair. I was blasting music over SC2 as well, so I didn't hear it at all :C Was one of the most disappointing losses I've had recently...and it was by a Plat player


----------



## AblueXKRS

It's a little tastier when the guy you beat blocks you. You can feel the butthurt.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I worry about my time now. Trying to keep my wife home as much as possible.


Yeah, we had our second december. My wife has been at home since.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Got owned 0-2 in like 30 min.


I wouldn't feel so bad, i'm about to face rank 29 GM (Paradise) and i'm struggling to break into Diamond because of the (usually low) Masters i'm facing. Hopefully he'll play blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back and become too confused by mass planetary fortresses to win







oh this is going to be embarrassing...

edit: I lasted longer than I expected in the ZvT though my injects, creep spread and all were horrible, and the TvT, bad turret placement and all (was kinda hoping i'd at least put up a little fight considering I have 79% wr in TvT at my level....


----------



## FrankoNL

Ok final switch. I switched over to zerg. But there are so many zerg players out there now a days!

I am going to be a terran player from now on! I'm back in gold in HOTS after i was plat in WoL. It is going to take a while before i can thing about going back to play though. I lose to gold players atm









I just need to figure out how terran works exactly.

for example: in TvT i go 1 racks into expand. at around 20 supply i add 2 more rax to a total of 3. Then i start double gas and go for combat shields. After that factory -> eng bay --> +1 and starport. Last but not least i start tank production.

But with the new widow mines and hellbats that just does not work anymore. frustrating!


----------



## revro

dont worry i have lost every game i played. probably to do with my 2 buddies, since we play 3vs3 and they are not as efficient as i am in building the bases. and 3v3 are usually other teamed up people and so we newbies are basically facing always better players


----------



## FrankoNL

3v3 is a different ball game compared to 1v1







Fun to see that some people only play team games and other players stick to purely 1v1.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Ok final switch. I switched over to zerg. But there are so many zerg players out there now a days!
> 
> I am going to be a terran player from now on! I'm back in gold in HOTS after i was plat in WoL. It is going to take a while before i can thing about going back to play though. I lose to gold players atm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just need to figure out how terran works exactly.
> 
> for example: in TvT i go 1 racks into expand. at around 20 supply i add 2 more rax to a total of 3. Then i start double gas and go for combat shields. After that factory -> eng bay --> +1 and starport. Last but not least i start tank production.
> 
> But with the new widow mines and hellbats that just does not work anymore. frustrating!


Let me help you (#2 plat player, not the best of course, but hey!)

standard good build

10 supply
12 barracks
13 supply depot (block base entrance)
...When you have enough money for orbital command go ahead and upgrade (do that with both CCs)
next..constantly queue one marine and scv until you can afford expansion (400 minerals)
once that's down continue with scv and marine production
add 2 barracks as soon as you can afford them
add 2 refinery after the 2 barracks
get a barracks tech lab, get stim
build a factory and immediately add a reactor and 2 engineering bays +1/1 asap
build starport
switch starport with factory

now this point here is very important(MOSTLY VS TERRAN).. - i've failed vs terran so often that i've finally gotten a hold of it

once your star port is down, reactor and 2 medivacs

once your two medivacs are down you MUST harass, imo it's also very important to start rolling out siege tanks if you see your bio balls aren't working. While harrassing remember to secure your base, be it a hand full of units ready at any time in your base or turrets in TvT. They work but make sure to set them up in a way that the medivac is being targeted at all times from all angels because speed boost can easily evade them nowadays.

If you go for early factory reactor you can place mines at your expansion and trust me, nothing hurts another terran's medivac drops more than well placed mines. Especially if it's a fully loaded one


----------



## FrankoNL

Thanks for the help!

The build i use has the same idea behind it! But i will try yours and see how it will go!









Can you tell me why you put a second supply up at 13? since your first supply depot gets your supply to 19


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> The build i use has the same idea behind it! But i will try yours and see how it will go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me why you put a second supply up at 13? since your first supply depot gets your supply to 19


To wall in and stop them from scouting unless they've already scouted. It's always good to make your Terran opponent waste a scan or two







. But often you're forced to scan yourself.

I'm not aware how new you are to Terran? Did you just start? I've honestly not played any other race, ever! I just love terran, not because of the campaign either. I just love their style.

I lost another game in a TvT although i totally had the upper hand.. reason.. i didn't build siege tanks. So the build i've given you you're really going to want to slam in two extra factories if the game seems like it's going to extend and produce siege tanks.The problem is i'm not a fan of siege tanks (not in TvT) I just hate it. So i dislike going for it. But it seems to me as though that almost has to be added to the mix to win cause they're just going to kick your ass if you don't.

edit: check your inbox


----------



## FrankoNL

I am very new to Terran ... as in: playing since 2 days









I will check the replay you sent me tonight when i am home! Thanks









Siege tanks seem to be the decisive factor in tvt yes. Do you use mines a lot? I hate those things.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I am very new to Terran ... as in: playing since 2 days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will check the replay you sent me tonight when i am home! Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Siege tanks seem to be the decisive factor in tvt yes. Do you use mines a lot? I hate those things.


I'm starting to use mines instead of turrets if that's what you mean. I like to defend with them, not really aggressive with it. The only time i am aggressive is when i noticed okay, this guy has finally realized my base is full of mines so he won't attempt dropping. At that point i take them and use them offensively. However, i'm still eagerly trying to see if TvT can work without siege tanks. Totally not my style. Banshees seem to work but only for so long... I'm still trying to figure out my own play style in TvT.


----------



## jellybeans69

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/393327729

Another sick game with base-trading vs terran too damn much stress playing against terrans nyduses all over the place again


----------



## Sainesk

Does anyone know why the gamereplays embed links aren't working anymore? I mean I can hyperlink the images with links to replays but the download count doesn't change anymore/default embed codes don't work...

(and on a side-note: haha all my competitive tournament opponents i've seen on are masters+, least I might learn a thing or two)


----------



## jellybeans69

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/393465249

Recording

CalmStorm vs JellySmelleh (CheezeAllDay) my first matches in OCN div







(Starts at 40m)


----------



## FrankoNL

Arghhhh i am getting owned in TvT and TvP .. So frustrating learning a new race.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Arghhhh i am getting owned in TvT and TvP .. So frustrating learning a new race.


wanna play with me? or want me to watch a match of yours?

edit: what's your rank?

edit2: i'm going to presume you've been top10 platinum before? i'm guessing you know the basics then and just need help getting into the race.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Arghhhh i am getting owned in TvT and TvP .. So frustrating learning a new race.


I must be the only terran who's worst matchup is TvZ and best TvP.


----------



## lapengu

Streaming some ladder if anyone would like to help me out!

http://www.twitch.tv/starcraftlapengu


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Are there any graphics upgrades/mods for this game, it looks pretty old realy


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> wanna play with me? or want me to watch a match of yours?
> 
> edit: what's your rank?
> 
> edit2: i'm going to presume you've been top10 platinum before? i'm guessing you know the basics then and just need help getting into the race.


Thanks for the help!







Shall i sent you a replay?

Edit: My rank now is around 40ish in gold league. My old rank in WoL on protoss was around 20 plat


----------



## Shadeh

Sure go ahead and in box me ;-D


----------



## FrankoNL

I will play a couple to day and sent them!


----------



## MKUL7R4

Good guy Sasquatch: Contact for a match,
actually responds.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Good guy Sasquatch: Contact for a match,
> actually responds.


I have one even better - my first match: Good guy top 35 GM (NA) contacts me







(and is actually nice chatting with me even though as plat I pretty much wasted his time







). I had to add and pm everyone else first...


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Are there any graphics upgrades/mods for this game, it looks pretty old realy


Wrong thread?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Are there any graphics upgrades/mods for this game, it looks pretty old realy


I've been thinking the same. Just playing CnC3 maxed out (which is OLDER than SC2) makes me laugh at SC2's graphics...


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I've been thinking the same. Just playing CnC3 maxed out (which is OLDER than SC2) makes me laugh at SC2's graphics...


Starcraft isnt about the graphics. Most people play with them on low anyways. They distract from the gameplay and strategy, and can make microing units a lot harder. Look at Brood war. People played that up until they released sc2 and those graphics were from '98


----------



## mylilpony

Love the turnout for the OCN SC tourney! Lots of Root, FXO, Scarlett, ostijoy, QXC..did i miss any? http://binarybeast.com/xSC21304181


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> Are there any graphics upgrades/mods for this game, it looks pretty old realy


I play with everything low except textures and models on the highest. I can max out if I want, but I prefer the simplistic look when I'm trying to play competitively. The game isn't about the graphics, it's about using your speed and intellect to forge superior strategies and overcome your opponents.


----------



## DoomDash

I really don't like how the tournament is being ran ( sadly ). I was looking forward to is but I just don't think I'd be able to keep up with it ( it's not worth it anyway ) with a new born baby.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Wrong thread?


No I have a real copy, and they should put out a HD pack, I haven't tired hots yet but wol graphics look pretty old in ways


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> No I have a real copy, and they should put out a HD pack, I haven't tired hots yet but wol graphics look pretty old in ways


You should have tried to play sc1 since 98 all the way to 2011. Then you wouldnt give a crap. haha

@doomdash. I agree. I was hoping to be able to see a few of the games at least on stream, but its like it is being ran behind closed doors..


----------



## ronnin426850

Oh don't give me that "I'm soooo PRO, graphics don't matter to me, you should be like that too" sack of poo. For some people graphics do matter. I am one of them, and I say SC2 needs a graphics bump at least with the next exp. Currently it is not beautiful enough to justify how heavy it is to the GPU.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Oh don't give me that "I'm soooo PRO, graphics don't matter to me, you should be like that too" sack of poo. For some people graphics do matter. I am one of them, and I say SC2 needs a graphics bump at least with the next exp. *Currently it is not beautiful enough to justify how heavy it is to the GPU*.


It isn't heavy on the GPU at all. I think I was maxing out the game at 1080p on a 4890, 2 and a half years ago.

Blizzard's mantra has always been to satisfy the mass market while still making games that are suitable for competitive play. You can't have ~10 million people playing WoW if you need a heavy-duty DX11 GPU and an i5 to run the game. Same with SC2 - it iterated on a game that was released _15 years ago_. You can't expect people to have up-to-date rigs when their primary gaming interest could be run with onboard graphics from the mid 2000's. With that being said, by the time LoV rolls around we'll be well into the next-gen of consoles, meaning we'll finally see an industry-wide graphics bump. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard tweaked the engine to add in some DX11 features like they've done with WoW.

Bottom line, though - it's about the gameplay. Look at HoN, LoL, and Dota 2; no one really cares what they look like.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> It isn't heavy on the GPU at all. I think I was maxing out the game at 1080p on a 4890, 2 and a half years ago.


I'm not talking about absolutes - wheter it IS heavy or it ISN'T. I'm saying it's TOO heavy for THE WAY IT LOOKS.

And as much as I hate to repeat myself - CnC3 - 3 years older, 3 times lighter on the GPU (I can max it on the laptop, can't do that with SC2), roughy same OR better looking (I go with better looking).




SC2 needs a graphics patch soon if it is to keep my interest








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> You can't have ~10 million people playing WoW if you need a heavy-duty DX11 GPU and an i5 to run the game.


That's what Settings are for.

Games have NO excuse for being ugly when maxed (or at least uglier that they could have been). You can still have SC2 looking the way it does right now. All I say is - there should be a higher setting that makes me go WOW.


----------



## Nowyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm not talking about absolutes - wheter it IS heavy or it ISN'T. I'm saying it's TOO heavy for THE WAY IT LOOKS.
> 
> And as much as I hate to repeat myself - CnC3 - 3 years older, 3 times lighter on the GPU (I can max it on the laptop, can't do that with SC2), roughy same OR better looking (I go with better looking).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 needs a graphics patch soon if it is to keep my interest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what Settings are for.
> 
> Games have NO excuse for being ugly when maxed (or at least uglier that they could have been). You can still have SC2 looking the way it does right now. All I say is - there should be a higher setting that makes me go WOW.


I'd say it's far more important to have a good core gameplay (ie SC2) than a graphically good yet shallow gameplay wise title (ie Crysis etc).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nowyn*
> 
> I'd say it's far more important to have a good core gameplay (ie SC2) than a graphically good yet shallow gameplay wise title (ie Crysis etc).


I'm not talking about the gameplay, I'm talking about the graphics. If you are to respond to something I said, stick to the topic







Yeah, gameplay is great! Probably one of the best in an RTS ever.

Can we discuss graphics now?


----------



## Nowyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm not talking about the gameplay, I'm talking about the graphics. If you are to respond to something I said, stick to the topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, gameplay is great! Probably one of the best in an RTS ever.
> 
> Can we discuss graphics now?


What's there to discuss?


It's not the sharpest graphics, true, but at the same time it's far from being the worst. I for one, never really got into SC;BW cause of it looking bad enough to bother me. As for SC2 i think game looks pretty good and have no gripe with it.
Would they change it anytime soon? Not a change. There's a chance that LotV might bring something like that, same as HotS brought more physics to the game.
Overall graphics was never Blizzard's main priority, strength or marketing focus, so it's not that high on their priority list. They prefer to cater for broad audiences with broadly varied system specs, instead of ramping up requirements for sake of adding extra bells and whistles.


----------



## ronnin426850

IMO what the graphics need is: some camera shaking during big explosions, shimmering and light reflections off metal surfaces, and more effects in combat - pieces of armor flying off the marines, zerg limbs being torn, tank shells being actually visible







stuff like that.

And those things could be tuned off in Settings, of course, so the argument "it's not beautiful so it could run for most ppl" is invalid.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm not talking about absolutes - wheter it IS heavy or it ISN'T. I'm saying it's TOO heavy for THE WAY IT LOOKS.
> 
> And as much as I hate to repeat myself - CnC3 - 3 years older, 3 times lighter on the GPU (I can max it on the laptop, can't do that with SC2), roughy same OR better looking (I go with better looking).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 needs a graphics patch soon if it is to keep my interest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what Settings are for.
> 
> Games have NO excuse for being ugly when maxed (or at least uglier that they could have been). You can still have SC2 looking the way it does right now. All I say is - there should be a higher setting that makes me go WOW.


CnC Kane's wrath was a beautiful game when I finally played it maxed @1080 with a 5670
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nowyn*
> 
> What's there to discuss?
> CnC Kane's Wrath was a beautiful game
> 
> It's not the sharpest graphics, true, but at the same time it's far from being the worst. I for one, never really got into SC;BW cause of it looking bad enough to bother me. As for SC2 i think game looks pretty good and have no gripe with it.
> Would they change it anytime soon? Not a change. There's a chance that LotV might bring something like that, same as HotS brought more physics to the game.
> Overall graphics was never Blizzard's main priority, strength or marketing focus, so it's not that high on their priority list. They prefer to cater for broad audiences with broadly varied system specs, instead of ramping up requirements for sake of adding extra bells and whistles.


I max out SC2 and soon will do so at 2560x1600, it still looks alright, but I wish it looked better, 2010 is old now. I have hots installed, are the graphics more modern in that?

And what this LotV ?


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> CnC Kane's wrath was a beautiful game when I finally played it maxed @1080 with a 5670
> I max out SC2 and soon will do so at 2560x1600, it still looks alright, but I wish it looked better, 2010 is old now. I have hots installed, are the graphics more modern in that?
> 
> And what this LotV ?


Yes they are better, they have added more physics and etc but it is still the same engine. And it is Legacy of the void (The Protoss expansion )


----------



## Anti!!

Cnc looks like crap in those pictures. They are no where near as detailed as sc2. Lol..

My 4870 also ran it maxed on release.

I can appreciate the thought of better graphics but at the expense of my beloved gameplay of sc I would pass.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Cnc looks like crap in those pictures. They are no where near as detailed as sc2. Lol..












Come again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_pGtTFVvU
(and this video shows like 10% of all of the effects)

Anyway, this isn't a CnC3 thread.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Cnc looks like crap in those pictures. They are no where near as detailed as sc2. Lol..
> 
> My 4870 also ran it maxed on release.
> 
> I can appreciate the thought of better graphics but at the expense of my beloved gameplay of sc I would pass.


SC2 probably looked great too in 2010, CNC KW looks super low res now, but amazed me at the time, I only got serious about pc gaming in 2010 when I got a x4 955 and 6950

I can't wait for the next generation SC style game with top grade graphics. I'll def. get prottos expansion. I'm trying to hold off staring HoTS another 3 weeks til I get 1600p IPS


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> SC2 probably looked great too in 2010, CNC KW looks super low res now, but amazed me at the time, I only got serious about pc gaming in 2010 when I got a x4 955 and 6950
> 
> I can't wait for the next generation SC style game with top grade graphics. I'll def. get prottos expansion. I'm trying to hold off staring HoTS another 3 weeks til I get 1600p IPS


Textures are low-res to modern standards, but just IMAGINE!

SC2 with parts flying off of mech units, shooting limbs off of zergs, godrays on the map, reflections on metal surfaces, clouds of dust after a colum of tanks or other heavy machines, sparks flying off of a battlecruiser when shot by marines, TONS of destructable objects on the map, which crumble as your Thors pass them... All of that already exists in a game 3 years older which can be Maxed on a 630GT.

These things will NOT make the game heavier, but will make it beautiful beyond recognition, especially combined with SC2's nice textures, physics and real-time shadows.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm not talking about absolutes - wheter it IS heavy or it ISN'T. I'm saying it's TOO heavy for THE WAY IT LOOKS.
> 
> And as much as I hate to repeat myself - CnC3 - 3 years older, 3 times lighter on the GPU (I can max it on the laptop, can't do that with SC2), roughy same OR better looking (I go with better looking).


CNC3 is *locked to 30FPS*, it should be no surprise that it is lighter than SC2 on the GPU.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> CNC3 is *locked to 30FPS*, it should be no surprise that it is lighter than SC2 on the GPU.


Nah, that's not my point. Here is my point:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Textures are low-res to modern standards, but just IMAGINE!
> 
> SC2 with parts flying off of mech units, shooting limbs off of zergs, godrays on the map, reflections on metal surfaces, clouds of dust after a colum of tanks or other heavy machines, sparks flying off of a battlecruiser when shot by marines, TONS of destructable objects on the map, which crumble as your Thors pass them... All of that already exists in a game 3 years older which can be Maxed on a 630GT.
> 
> These things will NOT make the game heavier, but will make it beautiful beyond recognition, especially combined with SC2's nice textures, physics and real-time shadows.


This is a graphics update that I personally demand from blizzard in order to buy further expansions.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> IMO what the graphics need is: some camera shaking during big explosions, shimmering and light reflections off metal surfaces, and more effects in combat - pieces of armor flying off the marines, zerg limbs being torn, tank shells being actually visible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stuff like that.
> 
> And those things could be tuned off in Settings, of course, so the argument "it's not beautiful so it could run for most ppl" is invalid.


No one who had even the slightest interest in doing well online or even completing a single player mission would want camera shakes enabled, it would just mess you up when trying to select things and execute actions.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> or even completing a single player mission


Well you're wrong about that specific thing







I want it. I want to feel the power of the blast. SC2 doesn't give me that right now. I agree about the MP though, but every game has different SP and MP settings anyway.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Well you're wrong about that specific thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want it. I want to feel the power of the blast. SC2 doesn't give me that right now. I agree about the MP though, but every game has different SP and MP settings anyway.


Not trying to be a d-bag but I just don't think SC2 is that kind of game. You should try out World In Conflict and Supreme Commander (Then again those are pretty dated)


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> @doomdash. I agree. I was hoping to be able to see a few of the games at least on stream, but its like it is being ran behind closed doors..


Did you really expect them to cast games from the qualifiers? There are over 1000 matches. Once they're done and the Ro64 single elim bracket starts they'll probably start casting.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Textures are low-res to modern standards, but just IMAGINE!
> 
> SC2 with parts flying off of mech units, shooting limbs off of zergs, godrays on the map, reflections on metal surfaces, clouds of dust after a colum of tanks or other heavy machines, sparks flying off of a battlecruiser when shot by marines, TONS of destructable objects on the map, which crumble as your Thors pass them... All of that already exists in a game 3 years older which can be Maxed on a 630GT.
> 
> These things will NOT make the game heavier, but will make it beautiful beyond recognition, especially combined with SC2's nice textures, physics and real-time shadows.


Have you ever played a late-game battle where both players are maxed? With everything that's going on, microing units is already a lot of work. Why would anyone want all of these things on the screen to distract them and block vision of what actually matters?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come again?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_pGtTFVvU
> (and this video shows like 10% of all of the effects)
> 
> Anyway, this isn't a CnC3 thread.


Yeah. Still looks worse imo. Lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Did you really expect them to cast games from the qualifiers? There are over 1000 matches. Once they're done and the Ro64 single elim bracket starts they'll probably start casting.


I was under the impression that the time limit for all the games was from thursday to sunday night but we see how that went. So, my expectation was for them to cast the round of 8 or maybe sixteen on sunday.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Have you ever played a late-game battle where both players are maxed? With everything that's going on, microing units is already a lot of work. Why would anyone want all of these things on the screen to distract them and block vision of what actually matters?


Do you deliberately insist on not understanding me?

1. "Most people play it on Low when playing online" - not my words. The game on Low would stay identical.
2. There is this magic thing called SETTINGS which allows you to customize the game, so that YOU would like it.
3. Everything that YOU need in order to like the game is already there
4. NOT everything I need to like the game is there.
5. Adding the TON of COOL stuff that I listed will NOT HINDER anyone's current gameplay, because it is OPTIONAL (see 2. - Settings)
6. Playing Single Player is not about Winning. It is about Maximizing the FEEL of the game.
7. The things I listed would help ME and many OTHERS feel better while playing the game, whitout making anyone else feel bad (because they can be kept OFF, see 2. - Settings)
8. Graphics vs Good gameplay is a rivalry that DOES NOT EXIST. Adding to the graphics of the game DOES NOT change the gameplay for people who keep the extra graphic details turned OFF. That ways everyone is happy.

I know it's hard, but invest a few minues in it and maybe my message will get through








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yeah. Still looks worse imo. Lol
> I was under the impression that the time limit for all the games was from thursday to sunday night but we see how that went. So, my expectation was for them to cast the round of 8 or maybe sixteen on sunday.


You are free to your opinion, of course







It is a flat fact that SC2 lacks the destructable environments and visual feedback whenever something hits something else - be it bullet, shell, laser beam, etc. Also, despite having better environment and lightning shaders, SC2 just uses them in a less creative way.


----------



## mylilpony

Time to get a rumble controller amirite


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Do you deliberately insist on not understanding me?
> 
> 1. "Most people play it on Low when playing online" - not my words. The game on Low would stay identical.
> 2. There is this magic thing called SETTINGS which allows you to customize the game, so that YOU would like it.
> 3. Everything that YOU need in order to like the game is already there
> 4. NOT everything I need to like the game is there.
> 5. Adding the TON of COOL stuff that I listed will NOT HINDER anyone's current gameplay, because it is OPTIONAL (see 2. - Settings)
> 6. Playing Single Player is not about Winning. It is about Maximizing the FEEL of the game.
> 7. The things I listed would help ME and many OTHERS feel better while playing the game, whitout making anyone else feel bad (because they can be kept OFF, see 2. - Settings)
> 8. Graphics vs Good gameplay is a rivalry that DOES NOT EXIST. Adding to the graphics of the game DOES NOT change the gameplay for people who keep the extra graphic details turned OFF. That ways everyone is happy.
> 
> I know it's hard, but invest a few minues in it and maybe my message will get through


Please stop.. You have such a negative attitude. Most of us here play competitively and want the graphics the way they are.. If you would like to see a graphics update, the proper place to discuss this would be on the bnet forums, however they will probably have the same response, which is: IT IS *NOT* WORTH THE DEVELOPERS TIME.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> Please stop.. You have such a negative attitude. Most of us here play competitively and want the graphics the way they are.. If you would like to see a graphics update, the proper place to discuss this would be on the bnet forums, however they will probably have the same response, which is: IT IS *NOT* WORTH THE DEVELOPERS TIME.


I'm sorry about my attitude, this always happens when I express an opinion and people say it's bull***







Which it isn't.
Whether it is worth the time or not, Blizzard will say, however until I see some inspiring atmosphere from this game, I'm not spending another dime on it


----------



## -SE7EN-

if you want better graphics, go 3d. StarCraft 2 looks absolutely glorious in 3d vision. And it will make more use of your graphics card. Also, there were little graphics details that I never noticed when I was playing in 2dimensions, that popped out. The game is quite a beauty, it is just sometimes hard to notice when you are focused so much on killing things, macro/micro n stuff.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm sorry about my attitude, this always happens when I express an opinion and people say it's bull***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which it isn't.
> Whether it is worth the time or not, Blizzard will say, however until I see some inspiring atmosphere from this game, I'm not spending another dime on it


Do you really have a 9600 GT graphics card? I don't want to demean anyone using older technology, but I don't think that graphics card can max SC2 anyways, let alone max it if there were some huge graphical overhaul...

Edit: Nevermind. Not sure why you don't have your main rig in your signature though


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-SE7EN-*
> 
> if you want better graphics, go 3d. StarCraft 2 looks absolutely glorious in 3d vision. And it will make more use of your graphics card. Also, there were little graphics details that I never noticed when I was playing in 2dimensions, that popped out. The game is quite a beauty, it is just sometimes hard to notice when you are focused so much on killing things, macro/micro n stuff.


Lol. I hear purple mutas are nutz!


----------



## AblueXKRS

I would like to play SC in 3D... What's the minimum investment involved?


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I would like to play SC in 3D... What's the minimum investment involved?


No thanks Jeff, I think I'll wait until I'm 50 and holographic television/video games are commonplace. Imagine holographic Starcraft 3.


----------



## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I would like to play SC in 3D... What's the minimum investment involved?


gpu - usually an nvidia, but can be done from amd, monitor + glasses. maybe $400-500. unless you do the crappy red/blue, then ~$10


----------



## CravinR1

Well I purchased the Rosewill 300Mbps 802.11 b/g/n Wireless Adapter (RNX-N250PCe)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006WWMZSK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now I log right in to sc2 with no issues. I never would've believed my good old Zonet 2500P was to blame, but at least with blizzard it has outlived its uefulness.

Thanks for the suggestion of the RNX as it seems to be a great adapter for the price.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> Please stop.. You have such a negative attitude. Most of us here play competitively and want the graphics the way they are.. If you would like to see a graphics update, the proper place to discuss this would be on the bnet forums, however they will probably have the same response, which is: IT IS *NOT* WORTH THE DEVELOPERS TIME.


This is OCN, not gaming on PS2 or N64 10-15 years later, most people want top level graphics, and if someone can't run it, upgrade or lower the settings

But I'm not saying SC2 looks bad or anything, it just looks dated compared to most games I play, especially when zooming in.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Textures are low-res to modern standards, but just IMAGINE!
> 
> SC2 with parts flying off of mech units, shooting limbs off of zergs, godrays on the map, reflections on metal surfaces, clouds of dust after a colum of tanks or other heavy machines, sparks flying off of a battlecruiser when shot by marines, TONS of destructable objects on the map, which crumble as your Thors pass them... All of that already exists in a game 3 years older which can be Maxed on a 630GT.
> 
> These things will NOT make the game heavier, but will make it beautiful beyond recognition, especially combined with SC2's nice textures, physics and real-time shadows.


As long as I can turn most of what you just said off, sure let them add it







Once you get past a certain level you really have no time to stare at where the bullets or lasers are going.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Happily, Blizzard isn't Michael Bay. For Blizzard, the story is more important than the explosions.


----------



## Eviscerated

I have a problem with my SC2. My fps drops really hard in the later stages of the game <30fps from a constant 60 with vsync. When I first got my computer a year and ago I didn't have this problem but recently when I started to play again I'm getting said frame drops. Anyone else have the same problem?

Rig in sig


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Well I purchased the Rosewill 300Mbps 802.11 b/g/n Wireless Adapter (RNX-N250PCe)
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006WWMZSK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Now I log right in to sc2 with no issues. I never would've believed my good old Zonet 2500P was to blame, but at least with blizzard it has outlived its uefulness.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion of the RNX as it seems to be a great adapter for the price.


Glad we could help!!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eviscerated*
> 
> I have a problem with my SC2. My fps drops really hard in the later stages of the game <30fps from a constant 60 with vsync. When I first got my computer a year and ago I didn't have this problem but recently when I started to play again I'm getting said frame drops. Anyone else have the same problem?
> 
> Rig in sig


That and crashing...


----------



## DoomDash

SC2 looks really good to me...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SC2 looks really good to me...


Well you are wrong!! CnC is better!!!


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eviscerated*
> 
> I have a problem with my SC2. My fps drops really hard in the later stages of the game <30fps from a constant 60 with vsync. When I first got my computer a year and ago I didn't have this problem but recently when I started to play again I'm getting said frame drops. Anyone else have the same problem?
> 
> Rig in sig


Not sure why you would have problems but why do you enable vsync? I've never noticed any tearing from SC2 even when it says the FPS is exceeding my refresh rate.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SC2 looks really good to me...


Same I have never had a single problem with the way it looks.

Blizzard has never been known for cutting edge graphics anyways except with their cinematic and that goes for all of their games. The graphics are what they are and it was to be expected. Starcraft 2 doesn't need cutting edge graphics anyways. It's only one of the most competitive e-sport for a reason and that is not for it's graphics but the most amazing game play you could ever ask for!


----------



## squall325

I find SC2's graphics great for the gameplay it provides. I know graphics and gameplay can't be directly compared but they certainly go hand in hand. Considering SC2's fast paced gameplay, players don't have the time to look at stuff while they play. CnC has a slower gameplay compared to SC2 to appreciate graphics. Also with competitive players and probably most play at low settings at MP, Blizzard wouldn't spend time and resources to graphically overhaul or improve an already high selling game. They don't care if they lose 100-300 players when they'll have thousands of players joining in. Besides that, you already bought the game. Its already profit for them. Even if you wont purchase the next expansion, 90% of the still playing population will.

anyway, where are my matchups for the casual and OCN div? I've been waiting for a few days now. Battletag on sig.


----------



## CravinR1

How do you leave a clan in HotS ?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> How do you leave a clan in HotS ?


You open the clan channel then click the gear in the top right of the window and you can find it there. It is either group options or just leave clan.


----------



## Twistacles

Just wanna thank OCN for hosting these tournaments! So much fun + motivating!

I literally got home, chugged a NOS and hammered those brackets/ladder all day. Between the Competitive Division, the OCN-only division, clan practice, and ladder, I clocked 32 games today. Jesus, a new record for me.

Lots of fun! My group is impossible, but some of the games werent as one-sided as I thought they would be. Took StuhZ (1500pt master) pretty close to the edge both times before he finally turned it around and killed me.

I didn't feel too great about fighting sub masters players cause It felt kinda unfair, though some Dias put up a good fight. The highlights for me we're taking out Pzycho 2-0 (1400 pt protoss) which is my weakest matchup, felt really great. Oh, and getting CRUUUUUUUUUUUSHED by Complexities' Sasquatch was cool too!

Overall just really feeling good about sc right now I'm hopping to break my 'forever-mid-masters' slump =3

~ GGs everyone


----------



## NewHighScore

I just beat a master league player for the first time EVER!!!!!! Wahoooooo!

I know it's nothing to a lot of people but damn does it feel great.


----------



## ronnin426850

nvm


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eviscerated*
> 
> I have a problem with my SC2. My fps drops really hard in the later stages of the game <30fps from a constant 60 with vsync. When I first got my computer a year and ago I didn't have this problem but recently when I started to play again I'm getting said frame drops. Anyone else have the same problem?
> 
> Rig in sig


I get it too just in the last month or so, I don't play online, so I mean the campaign, I suspect it was a blizzard update that broke the game.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Who's running the OCnet clan, any requirements to join? I'm only bronze 1v1 at the moment but still wouldn't mind joining..


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Who's running the OCnet clan, any requirements to join? I'm only bronze 1v1 at the moment but still wouldn't mind joining..


I am until we get response from admins. Just being a frequent poster on this thread is the only requirement. Pm me your info and ill add you next time you are on.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Looks like Hendralisk (Z, Rank 53 GM), Sasquatch (Z, Rank 64 Gm), and Paradise (T, Rank 48 GM) are all advancing into the Round of 64









I'm rootin' for Sasquatch. After playing him he seems like a pretty chill dude.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Looks like Hendralisk (Z, Rank 53 GM), Sasquatch (Z, Rank 64 Gm), and Paradise (T, Rank 48 GM) are all advancing into the Round of 64
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm rootin' for Sasquatch. After playing him he seems like a pretty chill dude.


Paradise is pretty cool too, he was rank 30 just a couple days ago around when I played him and didn't complain that he had to play a plat and chatted some and all. Has he gone down to almost 50?

I've played horribly in this tournament though all my competitive opponents have been masters+ so no surprise... Had a really fun match vs Sora in OCN div though where I randomed Z and we agreed on no mutas, lings or blings - turned into swarm hosts vs infestors war both with mass queens


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

So after losing a ZvZ game on Korhal City it occurred to me that, especially with close spawns, it may actually be one of the few scenarios where roach/hydra is a safe and more powerful strategy. What do you guys think?


----------



## Sainesk

came so close to beating Masters Z in ZvZ I think







I feel silly for not getting a bane or two back at my base which would have saved my queens/held off my opponent's attack and most likely won me the game... ladder really wants me to beat a master before promoting me to diamond lol.



edit: I just beat a masters P that tried to zealot rush me!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> came so close to beating Masters Z in ZvZ I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly for not getting a bane or two back at my base which would have saved my queens/held off my opponent's attack and most likely won me the game... ladder really wants me to beat a master before promoting me to diamond lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I just beat a masters P that tried to zealot rush me!


no. It wants to promote you to masters. But since you lose diamond will eventually be your home.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> came so close to beating Masters Z in ZvZ I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly for not getting a bane or two back at my base which would have saved my queens/held off my opponent's attack and most likely won me the game... ladder really wants me to beat a master before promoting me to diamond lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I just beat a masters P that tried to zealot rush me!


no. It wants to promote you to masters. But since you lose diamond will eventually be your home.

Edit: unless you win against diamonds. Lol


----------



## Qu1ckset

Can someone point me in the right directions for hots protoss build orders please, my current ones aren't as dominating as I'd like it to be...

Hots is so different from wol, and widow mines are so annoying..


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Can someone point me in the right directions for hots protoss build orders please, my current ones aren't as dominating as I'd like it to be...
> 
> Hots is so different from wol, and widow mines are so annoying..


Get out multiple observers. Keep one with the army and the two others on the big movement areas. As for builds, I do the same basically that I did in WoL. Always keep a eye on their army and if it is moving out don't drop tech or something silly like that make units and put down good force fields. For late game just be sure to macro and have a good number of bases (~4 is usually enough to win). If he is going typical bio/ vikings then just get out storm and around 4 colossus(more wouldnt hurt) plenty of blink stalkers and zealots and a couple of sentrys. You also need to be ahead on upgrades, both att and armor, this helps very much so. They when you engage, force field focus vikings with stalkers if their army is not much better then yours(if it is do not engage!) storm, storm, A move, storm, storm, type GG


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Looks like Hendralisk (Z, Rank 53 GM), Sasquatch (Z, Rank 64 Gm), and Paradise (T, Rank 48 GM) are all advancing into the Round of 64
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm rootin' for Sasquatch. After playing him he seems like a pretty chill dude.


Addendum

In addition to Sasquatch, Paradise and Hendralisk, I forgot there is also JonSnow (Z, Rank 16 GM), DesRow (P) and Drunkenboi (T, Rank 6 GM)

Gonna be an awesome finals


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> no. It wants to promote you to masters. But since you lose diamond will eventually be your home.
> 
> Edit: unless you win against diamonds. Lol


Not saying you're necessarily wrong but this doesn't agree with my experience. Every time I got a promotion to the next league was immediately after I won a game against someone two leagues above mine. I got silver after beating gold, gold after beating platinum, and platinum after beating diamond.


----------



## Eviscerated

I'll try removing vsync but i'm not getting tearing, but rather heavy frame drops that I didn't have a few months ago.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Not saying you're necessarily wrong but this doesn't agree with my experience. Every time I got a promotion to the next league was immediately after I won a game against someone two leagues above mine. I got silver after beating gold, gold after beating platinum, and platinum after beating diamond.


Hmm. quite opposite for me. lol Cant really put something in concrete i suppose.


----------



## DoomDash

I want in the oc clan.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I want in the oc clan.


I believe ragingnydus is the current leader of OCnet. Try sending him a PM on the forums here.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I want in the oc clan.


I will be logging on tonight. Ill send invites then.

The new born doing well?


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah.


Not a talkative one are you doom..

Im online for anyone wanting an invite. Maybe a hour tops before i go pump some iron.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Not a talkative one are you doom..
> 
> Im online for anyone wanting an invite. Maybe a hour tops before i go pump some iron.


----------



## jellybeans69

http://www.twitch.tv/simsons2/b/395569609

Lolzy platinum level game ZvP me as Zerg. I did 3hatch before pool then lost my natural and 3rd to his sentries 7gate and came back from that damage , always glad to see someone hates playing against Zerg - toss had around 7 collosus in the end.


----------



## Sainesk

Hrrm new maps next season, really looking forward to Klontas Mire, feels like Scrap Station with a twist (though ZvZ may see a ton of early pool/ling rushes on it)

Quote:



> 2013 Season 3, Maps getting removed:
> 
> -Daybreak
> -Newkirk Precinct
> -Korhal City
> 
> getting added:
> 
> (new maps!)
> 
> -Derelict Watcher TE
> 
> -Klontas Mire TE
> 
> -Zerus Prime TE





Spoiler: Derelict Watcher TE



Derelict Watcher is a 1v1 map with a comfortable rush distance, and a straightforward third base location. Don't let this fool you into taking it easy though, as the additional base locations after your third will require that you keep a close eye on the variety of attack paths that become available during the later stages of the game. You can also utilize the terrain to help coordinate your attack and defense tactics by breaking or protecting the rocks and towers near these expansion locations on the North and South sides of the map. Additionally, Xel'Naga Watchtowers overlook the two side paths that lead toward the corners of the map. However, they don't provide vision of the map's center area, nor the additional attack paths that can be opened up by breaking the destructible rocks found near the twelve and six o'clock expansion locations, so make sure to watch these areas well if you are expanding toward those directions.







Spoiler: Klontas Mire TE



Always be prepared for early aggression on this map, as the narrow bridge to the North makes for a very short rush distance. You can make use of the fact that the bridge is very narrow and can be blocked off using structures, but keep in mind that there are still additional attack paths available for use by your opponent. In the mid and later stages of the game, the map will play similar to other macro maps. Just remember to always watch for small groups of enemy forces crossing the bridge throughout the game. There are no Xel'Naga Towers on this map, so you might want to move a few scouting units out to key regions of the map in order to watch for incoming attacks at your defensive locations.







Spoiler: Zerus Prime TE



Though Zerus Prime features four starting locations, vertical spawns have been disabled, which means your expansion flow will be similar each game. You can take advantage of the choke point leading into your natural expansion to defend it with some ease, but keep a close eye on the destructible rocks to the south, which will open a backdoor path to your natural when destroyed. There's just one very large central attack path toward your opponent's half of the map, but it is possible to sneak small squads of units around the vision granted by the Xel'Naga Watchtowers, so keep an eye on your far away base locations lest they fall victim to surprise attacks.


----------



## DoomDash

I like Zerus.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I like Zerus.


It definitely looks like interesting map. My best winrate maps are still in though Akilon Wastes and Neo Planet







both at ~67% Win
And I get one extra veto map to work with n ow.


----------



## FrankoNL

How do you guys learn new builds? I am gold right now as terran. But i just can't seem to get the hang of getting builds in my head. I keep forgetting things.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> How do you guys learn new builds? I am gold right now as terran. But i just can't seem to get the hang of getting builds in my head. I keep forgetting things.


Muscle memory and repeating them. It's like asking how do you learn to build ovie at 9 supply or pylon at x supply







The more you do the named build the easier it is to remember given you know or have a look where you did it wrong.


----------



## FrankoNL

So, it basically comes down to losing a lot before getting better with your builds


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> So, it basically comes down to losing a lot before getting better with your builds


Since I've started doing different SH builds against toss I rarely lose that matchup


----------



## General123

I just can not see myself not getting six pooled on Klontas Mire TE.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I just can not see myself not getting six pooled on Klontas Mire TE.


Lol even 14p might not be safe to open against another zerg in that map







On the other hand ovie scout should reach enemy base rather quick


----------



## MKUL7R4

Anyone here want to help me test a 4v4 map I'm making?


----------



## NewHighScore

Oh my god I can't believe they are removing daybreak. I thought that was such an awesome balanced map.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Oh my god I can't believe they are removing daybreak. I thought that was such an awesome balanced map.


Same here. I love that map.


----------



## Ergates

Those new maps do look interesting though.


----------



## DoomDash

I miss when they had fun maps. They do their absolute best now not to have any cool spots for siege tanks.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I miss when they had fun maps. They do their absolute best now not to have any cool spots for siege tanks.


I miss the high ledges behind mineral lines...


----------



## DoomDash

I miss the gully on Tal'Darim Altar I could drop a siege tank and marines into. I miss the spot behind the rocks on Shak Plateau that you could drop a siege tank and marines into and be fine as long as they didn't destroy the rocks. Even more, I miss that same map when you could spawn horizontal from each other and there were rocks leading into the mains. God that was a good time for Terran. Lost Temple with cliffs? Yes please.

Even Shipyard was aight for this.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I miss the gully on Tal'Darim Altar I could drop a siege tank and marines into. I miss the spot behind the rocks on Shak Plateau that you could drop a siege tank and marines into and be fine as long as they didn't destroy the rocks. Even more, I miss that same map when you could spawn horizontal from each other and there were rocks leading into the mains. God that was a good time for Terran. Lost Temple with cliffs? Yes please.
> 
> Even Shipyard was aight for this.


I think terran is so fun for those reasons.


----------



## DoomDash

Yes, and Blizzard has taken away most of the fun of Terran. Terran was the ultimate map abuser. They should just nerf the silly stuff like medivacs / widow mines ect and put some fun maps back in.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes, and Blizzard has taken away most of the fun of Terran. Terran was the ultimate map abuser. They should just nerf the silly stuff like medivacs / widow mines ect and put some fun maps back in.


Agreed.


----------



## FrankoNL

That hold from Naniwa @ Dreamhack vs Djaedong .... Holy hairy rat testicles


----------



## 13321G4

You mocking the dong?

Amazing hold though! Loved it. So much damage from the colossi. Also I think the archons not being finished yet helped naniwa, because the ultralisks tried to move around them.

Though NaNiwa said that he knew what was coming when he saw the double evo which was so early. Don't think I fully agree with his choices if this is true.


----------



## FrankoNL

I am not mocking him. I think he is great. His whole attitude. Most players bad mouth eachother to be "fun" But this guy is very respectfull of his colleagues. It is very nice to see.

I think he got lucky ... honestly. If Djaedong went in 3 seconds earlier. It would have ended completely different.


----------



## 13321G4

It's Jaedong though...


----------



## Anti!!

EG is holding him back. lol


----------



## Anti!!

EG is holding him back. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Beating Protoss with mech is so rewarding.









Wow 3 TvP's in a row I won. Maybe I'm getting the hang of it.


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't understand why none of the zergs at dreamhack just pre-10 pool'd Naniwa. Seems like a free win against blatantly unsafe opening he's been doing almost every game.


----------



## DoomDash

Leenock did game 2 or 3.


----------



## poroboszcz

Are you sure? I remember waiting for it to happen, but must have missed that. Which map was it?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Leenock did game 2 or 3.


Game 2 Leenock went hatch first.
Game 3 Leenock went 14 gas 14 pool speedlings opening BUT NaNiwa went nexus first FFE so he held that easily.
Full Series

Game 1

Game 2

Game 3

Game 4


----------



## Anti!!

Naniwa's arch nemesis. Leenock. haha

I still have Leenocks account he used for his mlg win against naniwa added as a friend lol. It was Timber. haha


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure if you guys have seen these but they are awesome! 2 seasons worth:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0QrZvg7QIgpoLdNFnEePRrU-YJfr9Be7


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I've started HoTS, fun so far but still same massive fps drop to 15-20, not mere spikes, it will just sit there.

I have an [email protected], a 7950 CF, the game is on a SSD and I just did a win7 x64 install like 3 weeks ago.

How annoying is this? And no one here has a clue why, or on battlenet


----------



## Sainesk

Have you tried playing it with stock settings? on just one GPU? What Power Supply do you have in your system? and is it happening everywhere (campaign, 1v1, 4v4 etc.) or just in certain game modes (4v4 for example)?


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I've started HoTS, fun so far but still same massive fps drop to 15-20, not mere spikes, it will just sit there.
> 
> I have an [email protected], a 7950 CF, the game is on a SSD and I just did a win7 x64 install like 3 weeks ago.
> 
> How annoying is this? And no one here has a clue why, or on battlenet


Have you taken a close look at your CPU/GPU usage when you're experiencing low FPS? You probably have some throttling going on somewhere.

If you don't have two monitors (or don't want to tab out) to look at Resource Monitor/Afterburner/whatever, CoreTemp and Afterburner (and probably just about every other monitoring program out there) can save data to a log file which you can import into your spreadsheet program of choice. After importing you can use the data to churn out graphs of CPU/GPU usage / VRAM usage / FPS (etc) vs time.

Afterburner log -> spreadsheet
CoreTemp log -> spreadsheet


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Not sure if you guys have seen these but they are awesome! 2 seasons worth:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0QrZvg7QIgpoLdNFnEePRrU-YJfr9Be7


Yeah, we have been watching them. Freakin hilarious!

I figured you people could enjoy this replay. It really opens my eyes as to how far behind you can get without losing the game.

http://drop.sc/328925

ALSOOO!!!

A game Raven and I had the pleasure of playing. Very fun 3v3 to watch.
http://drop.sc/328951


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Not sure if you guys have seen these but they are awesome! 2 seasons worth:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0QrZvg7QIgpoLdNFnEePRrU-YJfr9Be7


those are hilarious







!


----------



## FrankoNL

What are the "basic" openers for zerg against all the matchups?

I just want to get more in the different builds for the different races.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Have you tried playing it with stock settings? on just one GPU? What Power Supply do you have in your system? and is it happening everywhere (campaign, 1v1, 4v4 etc.) or just in certain game modes (4v4 for example)?


I've tried with/without CF, CCC13.2,3 and now 13.5, I use v-snyc but in the past I tried with it off too. With/WO CPU OC, and only in campaign mode, and its legit upto date DLed version from blizzard.
I have a seasonic 750W, only 2 years old, it seems fine.

And some levels work a lot better than others. Over on battlenet there are similar complaints, from people on single and CF/SLi rigs, but no one really knows...is it patch related, I can't remember the game running like this when I got it in Feb/13, did this happen after HoTS???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> Have you taken a close look at your CPU/GPU usage when you're experiencing low FPS? You probably have some throttling going on somewhere.
> 
> If you don't have two monitors (or don't want to tab out) to look at Resource Monitor/Afterburner/whatever, CoreTemp and Afterburner (and probably just about every other monitoring program out there) can save data to a log file which you can import into your spreadsheet program of choice. After importing you can use the data to churn out graphs of CPU/GPU usage / VRAM usage / FPS (etc) vs time.
> 
> Afterburner log -> spreadsheet
> CoreTemp log -> spreadsheet


Its all over the place, I played a 2 back to back games of Haven's Fall on brutal with CCC13.5 and crossfire disabled and in the 1st minute the fps would drop and sit at 40fps anywhere in the base, but moving the camera to the far right side of the base, it would go back to 60fps. And with a huge mixed force going out and leveling everything it would drop to 30 in big battles, then go back to 40 once the area was flattened. And it acted about the same when all colonies where infested, or when only 1 was left infested, and the biggest battle at the biggest base acted about the same as the smaller infested bases.

Then I exited, enabled CF and played 2 games, same mission/brutal start to finish, and it was about the same, although fps would drop into the low 20s at times, can't say I noticed that in the above test. With a big ~30 strong mixed force just sitting there doing nothing, zooming in on all of them, the fps would go back to 60 sometimes, then zooming back out the fps would go back to 40 and hold it steady, not 38 or 42, 40. Moving around the camera will cause the fps go up and down a few from 40, but when stopped pretty much anywhere, its back to 40.

I'm going to use msi:ab to record fps stats next, rather than eyeball fraps. I don't think I tried with the graphics turned down yet, I'll try later.

As for CPU usage, I've taken screenshots of both CPU and GPU usage and posted aways back, GPU looks typical, not sure what normal CPU usage looks like, I'll get another pic later.

2 days ago with CCC13.3 or 4, in the 1st snow mission of HoTS, the fps would sit in the 20s a lot without a big army, then go back to something ??? close to normal. So then I installed 13.5 and have played that mission 3-4 times since, with and without CF and it never sat at 20fps, but still wasn't perfect.

A simple low force mission like Zeratul's 1st crystal mission has lot's of problems, I'll try that next. It's not the number of units on screen, or on the entire map. And some levels run way better than others. But I shouldn't have any problems.

My brain hurts, more tests to run yet, I'm sure I can't fix it, just whine about it


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> What are the "basic" openers for zerg against all the matchups?
> 
> I just want to get more in the different builds for the different races.


I don't believe zerg works that way.

ZvZ you want to expand (15 pool 15 hatch) but be watchfull of your opponent. Scouting is vital.

ZvT you want to ... I don't know. Expand and produce a lot of lings.

ZvP expand again (15 15) but you need to know timings. I should throw down a roach warren at x minutes IF I see him FFE. If gate expand 30(ish)s sooner) . If, if, if, if, if, if, if; scout!

Zerg production is madness and easy. The hard part is the scouting.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I don't believe zerg works that way.
> 
> ZvZ you want to expand (15 pool 15 hatch) but be watchfull of your opponent. Scouting is vital.
> 
> ZvT you want to ... I don't know. Expand and produce a lot of lings.
> 
> ZvP expand again (15 15) but you need to know timings. I should throw down a roach warren at x minutes IF I see him FFE. If gate expand 30(ish)s sooner) . If, if, if, if, if, if, if; scout!
> 
> Zerg production is madness and easy. The hard part is the scouting.


not exactly. Lol

Zvz you can 15 hatch 15 gas 15 pool for econ. You can 15 gas 15 pool 17 hatch for macro ling agression. Amoung others.

Zvt you 15 hatch 16 pool or 15pool if reapers inc. No gas and do 4 to 6 queen opening. Gas at 44 . It really has alot to do with what the terrans doing.

Zvp 15 pool 15 hatch no gas until 6 mins. Do a 3rd at 24 supply if toss forge fast expands.

All of those are so so vague. You will have to do some research of your own too. Get it straight from the pros. You can watch their replays so easily these days nothing is really hidden.


----------



## jellybeans69

Against T which goes CC first before rax - if there's no proxy rax around 3hatch before pool (did it y-day 3rd @ 20 supply) else 15h15p17g 44hatch
Against Toss 15h15p in plat with occasional 10pool
ZvZ i often open 10 pool with/without gas denying expo while expoing myself.

I never drone scout toss , always either 10 or 13 scout terran , occasional scout on Z if intend to 15h15p/15p15h if i'm going 10p there's no need to scout


----------



## FrankoNL

Thanks for the info







I am just going to watch a lot of replays / youtube clips.


----------



## Schade

Let's say there is a beginner guy. How long does it take him to play like a gold/platinum league player if he plays every day? Approximately? 6 months? 1 year?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schade*
> 
> Let's say there is a beginner guy. How long does it take him to play like a gold/platinum league player if he plays every day? Approximately? 6 months? 1 year?


I haven't played SC2 before at all , by playing 3-5 games/day it took me 1 month to reach plat.
Started out as silver ~march 23rd or so and reached plat april 21st , by simply reading some bo's and training some mehanics/muscle memory.


----------



## Schade

Wow. I thought all gold league players and players of higher leagues (platinum, diamond, master etc.) were SC1 pros.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schade*
> 
> Wow. I thought all gold league players and players of higher leagues (platinum, diamond, master etc.) were SC1 pros.


Arguably only masters/gm leagues are special rest are nothing special imo


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Arguably only masters/gm leagues are special rest are nothing special imo


agreed


----------



## DoomDash

Ive been masters since release and I was far from pro in brood war. I did however play a lot, and I was pretty good. Me: http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809
Im Old school


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Ive been masters since release and I was far from pro in brood war. I did however play a lot, and I was pretty good. Me: http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809
> Im Old school


Well that's obvious how many are actual sc2 pros is small number, Like under 0.% which is less than total number of all grand master players imo.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Arguably only masters/gm leagues are *special* rest are nothing special imo


Yes I believe is the important part of this post. Neither of us thought anyone in those leagues were pro. Lol


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yes I believe is the important part of this post. Neither of us thought anyone in those leagues were pro. Lol


Aye cause statistically masters+gm is still tens of thousands players across all the servers. (I pull numbers out of my [a] , but given sc2 1v1 is played by 1m players) that'd still account for 40k+ players being in masters league. Checked sc2 ranks and i was close to correct 1k gm + 25k masters


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Aye cause statistically masters+gm is still tens of thousands players across all the servers. (I pull numbers out of my [a] , but given sc2 1v1 is played by 1m players) that'd still account for 40k+ players being in masters league. Checked sc2 ranks and i was close to correct 1k gm + 25k masters


That's about 0.0000000167% of population.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schade*
> 
> Let's say there is a beginner guy. How long does it take him to play like a gold/platinum league player if he plays every day? Approximately? 6 months? 1 year?


I had no previous RTS experience when i started playing sc2. It took me like 6 months to get out of bronze but then only 2 more to reach plat.


----------



## SageQi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schade*
> 
> Let's say there is a beginner guy. How long does it take him to play like a gold/platinum league player if he plays every day? Approximately? 6 months? 1 year?


While I dabbled a bit in brood war (like some UMS and Fastest possible map) and played Counter Strike some what competitively, I never played an RTS much before and I was able to get into Gold in 1 week after I bought both WoL and HotS together. Got into Platinum after another week and now I've stopped playing to study for finals :L

EDIT: I did watch Husky and HD since the beta so... maybe some of that rubbed off on me?


----------



## Qu1ckset

Found a sick new protoss rush build order for 1v1 thanks to a diamond player merking me with it, i saved replay, watched it, and copied it and man does it ever catch people off guard!!!









i downloaded a video of my drop.sc , what do i need to watch it?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Found a sick new protoss rush build order for 1v1 thanks to a diamond player merking me with it, i saved replay, watched it, and copied it and man does it ever catch people off guard!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i downloaded a video of my drop.sc , what do i need to watch it?


My Documents -> SC2 -> Your account name folder -> throw it in replays
Is that rush Gate into msc -> expand then into 4g/stargate?


----------



## DoomDash

Well the first season of HotS is basically over. I fought my way back to masters after 1.5 years off, and finished top 50 in my division. I did it using entirely mech, not abusing the meta game. I must say, I'm proud of my results. I think I have a very long way to perfect my mech but so far I'm really enjoying it. Where did you guys end up?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/

*lol all that and I got placed into diamond. ***!!*


----------



## jellybeans69

Lol poor you , finished that one needed game and still got placed in plat tbh must 6pool every game in Mire cuz you can block that bridge with like pylon/terran supply thingy and then your army has to go like all around the map ><

Got placed in plat (finished the previous season in plat too)


----------



## DoomDash

I don't understand why I got demoted. I was doing well...


----------



## NewHighScore

haha I don't get it. I been getting crushed in new season. Last season I was doing so good and now im 2-7







. I matched against 2 masters though so I guess it's a good sign that my mmr is going up.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't understand why I got demoted. I was doing well...


Maybe you were getting low mmr opponents, or possibly cutoffs changed?? idk


----------



## FedeVi

Can someone confirm that EU server is up? i can't login but for TL it's online. Strange thing is that i can log in the other servers...


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedeVi*
> 
> Can someone confirm that EU server is up? i can't login but for TL it's online. Strange thing is that i can log in the other servers...


I've played already 3 games since the ladder reset and i'm online without an issue there.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> My Documents -> SC2 -> Your account name folder -> throw it in replays
> Is that rush Gate into msc -> expand then into 4g/stargate?


It's a quick 4 gate with proxy pylon and go in with 6staiks and 5zlotz and keep warping in more men usually wins, but what's a good thing to switch to in game if that fails? I usually don't work out of a 4gate build order, i usually do a 2 gate robot or 2 gate stargate to expo but that's not for rushing build orders


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't understand why I got demoted. I was doing well...


Maybe you were not doing so well in unranked and since the mmr's are linked it decided to demote you. Or maybe it's for playing mech, Blizzard doesn't seem to like it.


----------



## 13321G4

Unranked mmr and ranked mmr are seperate.

When you start with unranked it uses the ranked mmr, but from that point it seperates and the two are measured seperately. At least that is what I heard.

You most likely got demoted because others did better. Masters is most likely too full.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well the first season of HotS is basically over. I fought my way back to masters after 1.5 years off, and finished top 50 in my division. I did it using entirely mech, not abusing the meta game. I must say, I'm proud of my results. I think I have a very long way to perfect my mech but so far I'm really enjoying it. Where did you guys end up?
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/
> 
> *lol all that and I got placed into diamond. ***!!*


Top 8 plat as random in a horrible division where 1000+ points seemed to be where most people got promoted at and every other game was versus a masters







seriously, I had at least 2 guys from my division pm me asking if our div is broken, Diamond should be easy this season compared to that...


----------



## Anti!!

if I get any time off of work I am going to destroy the ladder. I was playing against Mid masters to low masters players on a regular basis. About a 50 percent win ratio against those guys. you watch it'll placed me in bronze or something. Oh, and I had got to rank one plat actually..


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> if I get any time off of work I am going to destroy the ladder. I was playing against Mid masters to low masters players on a regular basis. About a 50 percent win ratio against those guys. you watch it'll placed me in bronze or something. Oh, and I had got to rank one plat actually..


Yea, after league lock I was like forget this can't be bothered keeping first place, got other things I have to do, but yea I wasn't doing as well as you vs masters. I'd say I had closer to 50% came very close to beating them







(and failing for some stupid reason like 1 extra bane would have been enough to hold off an all in but i'm like "go go queen power you can hold those mass lings").

Those Star Crafts videos are amazing btw Doom, i'd seen some of them but never had the time to go through them all till now, I wish ultralisks on the battlefield were really as scary as in video 25


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yea, after league lock I was like forget this can't be bothered keeping first place, got other things I have to do, but yea I wasn't doing as well as you vs masters. I'd say I had closer to 50% came very close to beating them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (and failing for some stupid reason like 1 extra bane would have been enough to hold off an all in but i'm like "go go queen power you can hold those mass lings").
> 
> Those Star Crafts videos are amazing btw Doom, i'd seen some of them but never had the time to go through them all till now, I wish ultralisks on the battlefield were really as scary as in video 25


Yea, you probably are better than me. My time has only allowed me to really stick to 2 base builds on ladder. :/


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Those Star Crafts videos are amazing btw Doom, i'd seen some of them but never had the time to go through them all till now, I wish ultralisks on the battlefield were really as scary as in video 25


What vids? I want to see them too!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Maybe you were not doing so well in unranked and since the mmr's are linked it decided to demote you. Or maybe it's for playing mech, Blizzard doesn't seem to like it.


I played no unranked. I'm easily mid Diamond on Korean servers is the sad part. Unless the skill gaps are getting closer. I remember before I quit I was only platinum in Korea, and masters in NA. So now I'm Diamond in Korea and Diamond in NA?

Well really I think it's just screwed up or something, either way I'll be back in soon.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I played no unranked. I'm easily mid Diamond on Korean servers is the sad part. Unless the skill gaps are getting closer. I remember before I quit I was only platinum in Korea, and masters in NA. So now I'm Diamond in Korea and Diamond in NA?
> 
> Well really I think it's just screwed up or something, either way I'll be back in soon.


Yeah it is silly but I wouldnt take it seriously. You will be placed in your right league soon enough


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I played no unranked. I'm easily mid Diamond on Korean servers is the sad part. Unless the skill gaps are getting closer. I remember before I quit I was only platinum in Korea, and masters in NA. So now I'm Diamond in Korea and Diamond in NA?
> 
> Well really I think it's just screwed up or something, either way I'll be back in soon.


The skill gaps aren't nearly as far apart as people like to exxagerate . For the better part a master na is master eu and kr. You shouldn't worry about league as much as worrying about improving.









Btw last season master league was over saturated with over 5% of players in master league when there was supposed to be only 2%.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> The skill gaps aren't nearly as far apart as people like to exxagerate . For the better part a master na is master eu and kr. You shouldn't worry about league as much as worrying about improving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw last season master league was over saturated with over 5% of players in master league when there was supposed to be only 2%.


It was not. Cuttoff aka masters changed to 5% was already sometime in winters time before hots release. I do know it used to be 2% before that though.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I played no unranked. I'm easily mid Diamond on Korean servers is the sad part. Unless the skill gaps are getting closer. I remember before I quit I was only platinum in Korea, and masters in NA. So now I'm Diamond in Korea and Diamond in NA?


I wouldn't worry then. I'm diamond on KR and it translates to roughly 1k masters on EU (which is like high GM on NA







).


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> It was not. Cuttoff aka masters changed to 5% was already sometime in winters time before hots release. I do know it used to be 2% before that though.


I have never read anywhere that master league is supposed to be 5%. Source?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What vids? I want to see them too!


Doom posted them a few pages ago (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0QrZvg7QIgpoLdNFnEePRrU-YJfr9Be7)

pretty funny stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

OK guys, don't panic, I'm finally back in masters ( after going 9-2 ). Stupid Blizzard.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> OK guys, don't panic, I'm finally back in masters ( after going 9-2 ). Stupid Blizzard.


gonna get GM this season?







may actually get to GM before I hit Diamond, Cisco exams nearly every day taking up all my time...


----------



## DoomDash

I thought Cisco class was so damn boring, I suppose that's why I stopped after Cisco 2. Layers and Protocols, yawn.

and probably not on GM. Someday.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Anyone else staying up tonight for group B?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Anyone else staying up tonight for group B?


I set my alarm ( just woke up ) for group B. I'm so tired but it should be worth it.


----------



## poroboszcz

Any predictions? I say Parting 1 - 2 Life and Innovation 2 - 0 Flash.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Any predictions? I say Parting 1 - 2 Life and Innovation 2 - 0 Flash.


Parting vs Life 0 - 2
Innovation vs Flash 1 - 2

Just to be different


----------



## MKUL7R4

Got up at 4:10 AM this morning to watch WCS Korea....totally worth it. This Life vs Innovation game 1 is nuts


----------



## DoomDash

How do you guys feel about the purposed changes? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410839

Spores, cool change.

Burrow, why not try 75/75 first?

Oracle, completely bogus change. You already have to semi-blind counter them every game, no it will be a easier to be rewarded for all inning. I already noticed a lot of undeserving protoss players in Masters ( 2 basers ) because of these. The community is mainly against it, so hopefully it doesn't make the cut.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> How do you guys feel about the purposed changes? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410839
> 
> Spores, cool change.
> 
> Burrow, why not try 75/75 first?
> 
> Oracle, completely bogus change. You already have to semi-blind counter them every game, no it will be a easier to be rewarded for all inning. I already noticed a lot of undeserving protoss players in Masters ( 2 basers ) because of these. The community is mainly against it, so hopefully it doesn't make the cut.


I dont feel like even 50/50 burrow is gonna make us give a crap. Scans and obs just shut this down so hard. I dont believe it being 100/100 was the issue in the first place.

Now I will say it will allow me to get burrow banes easier and earlier. maybe that will be good.

As for the Oracle. PLEAAASSSSEEEEE. Why do we need to buff it? When ever i do play toss i usually get 10 to 15 worker kills with 1 or 2 oracles. You can just about guarantee with good control it will always happen when i play them as an opener. A buff is not needed there. It may be welcomed by our toss community, but their complaints are definitely not about the oracle sucking.

As for the spore change? FINALLY!!! I like muta play, but most of the time if you get that third sniped and you are not high masters it is just about gg. The spores will be a great help here. +30 may be a little to much though, but then again the regen on mutas are around now.

*cough* Golem!! *cough*

Edit: Got placed into diamond tonight! Woot! 5-0 also.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> How do you guys feel about the purposed changes? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410839
> 
> Spores, cool change.
> 
> Burrow, why not try 75/75 first?
> 
> Oracle, completely bogus change. You already have to semi-blind counter them every game, no it will be a easier to be rewarded for all inning. I already noticed a lot of undeserving protoss players in Masters ( 2 basers ) because of these. The community is mainly against it, so hopefully it doesn't make the cut.


I like the spore change but I don't know if it's the best way to fix the problem. Defending against mutas isn't that bad, the problem is not being able to expand and falling behind if you're not going mutas too. Currently on any reasonably sized map it's very rare to just be able to go attack with a ground army and do damage to a player going mass muta because a few spines and queens (and nothing else but mutas) are ridiculously good in ZvZ. I'll just throw out the idea that hydras should out-range spine crawlers with their range upgrade which in my opinion would spice up ZvZ, and if deemed too good in other match-ups, make it an ability only useable on spines, buildings or something.

Burrow - widow mines get burrow free, give banelings free burrow or cooldown on splash instead of suicide then it'll be closer to fair (still can't hit flying, yea i'm feeling a little Z biased today







).

Oracle idea is crazy, most of the masters Protoss I face proxy stargate every PvT, how about reducing their damage then if they come earlier and get better escape (since they can already take out a saturated base in about the blink of an eye) if i'll be forced to open turrets or bunker+marines/many marines every game a P doesn't build all their buildings in their base.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I dont feel like even 50/50 burrow is gonna make us give a crap. Scans and obs just shut this down so hard. I dont believe it being 100/100 was the issue in the first place.
> 
> Now I will say it will allow me to get burrow banes easier and earlier. maybe that will be good.
> 
> As for the Oracle. PLEAAASSSSEEEEE. Why do we need to buff it? When ever i do play toss i usually get 10 to 15 worker kills with 1 or 2 oracles. You can just about guarantee with good control it will always happen when i play them as an opener. A buff is not needed there. It may be welcomed by our toss community, but their complaints are definitely not about the oracle sucking.
> 
> As for the spore change? FINALLY!!! I like muta play, but most of the time if you get that third sniped and you are not high masters it is just about gg. The spores will be a great help here. +30 may be a little to much though, but then again the regen on mutas are around now.
> 
> Edit: Got placed into diamond tonight! Woot! 5-0 also.


^ the contradiction Nydus!

get 50/50 burrow and oracles will be forced to use envision, drastically reducing the damage they'll do as you burrow your drones

i actually feel like protoss is the weakest right now but idk

It''s raining here so I'll probably play a lot tonight if you want to do some 2s


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> ^ the contradiction Nydus!
> 
> get 50/50 burrow and oracles will be forced to use envision, drastically reducing the damage they'll do as you burrow your drones
> 
> i actually feel like protoss is the weakest right now but idk
> 
> It''s raining here so I'll probably play a lot tonight if you want to do some 2s


LOL!!

I do have a problem with typing out loud "thinking out loud". So, just take it as me weighing out the pros and cons in one sentence.. lol!!

my bad

But it would be could for drone burrow you are right. Also, I dont used hatch overlord speed near enough.


----------



## FrankoNL

It's not just chrome. FF has a way of messing stuff up as well. It's like a angry kid at times.

BTW: I'm back to Zerg


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> It's not just chrome. FF has a way of messing stuff up as well. It's like a angry kid at times.
> 
> BTW: I'm back to Zerg


Lol just play random bro!


----------



## General123

My game keeps freezing and becoming unresponsive








So annoying.


----------



## hawker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol just play random bro!


Haha maybe i should


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hawker*
> 
> Haha maybe i should


whoops, with wrong account


----------



## DoomDash

Things I'm learning with mech.

You can't get away with mech without ghosts if they have 3 robos producing immortals. I must add ghosts.

You can't go mech without some sort of other support unit like a banshee, bc or raven vs Swarm hosts. Swarm hosts are near impossible for mech to kill in medium numbers or higher. I still haven't figured out what or how I need to effectively kill these. People complaining about swarm hosts probably haven't got to try them vs mech.


----------



## Anti!!

Well, i finally have done it. Now lets see if I can stay in it.

http://s24.photobucket.com/user/AntaliveDM/media/masters2_zpsd10915d4.jpg.html


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Things I'm learning with mech.
> 
> You can't get away with mech without ghosts if they have 3 robos producing immortals. I must add ghosts.
> 
> You can't go mech without some sort of other support unit like a banshee, bc or raven vs Swarm hosts. Swarm hosts are near impossible for mech to kill in medium numbers or higher. I still haven't figured out what or how I need to effectively kill these. People complaining about swarm hosts probably haven't got to try them vs mech.


They're good vs mech and toss too , only setup their not exactly good are against other zerg player.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, i finally have done it. Now lets see if I can stay in it.
> 
> http://s24.photobucket.com/user/AntaliveDM/media/masters2_zpsd10915d4.jpg.html


grats dude!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, i finally have done it. Now lets see if I can stay in it.


Grats!!!







:thumb:


----------



## DoomDash

This is probably my favorite match since HotS came out for me. I was basically ready to GG I was so far behind, but thanks to repair and lift off.....

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=282261


----------



## twerk

Does anyone want someone terrible to play with? Details in my sig








I'm not ranked in HoTS but I'm probably around silver (on a good day







)


----------



## NewHighScore

I left the OCnet clan.









nothing against anyone just wanting to be in a clan that members actually interact with eachother.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I left the OCnet clan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nothing against anyone just wanting to be in a clan that members actually interact with eachother.










. I'm not really an initiator as I'm busy and usually when I'm not I just try and ladder.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I left the OCnet clan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nothing against anyone just wanting to be in a clan that members actually interact with eachother.


Lol. I do try. Plus we are just getting it going. I figured more would join but I guess we may have to invite diamond plus people who arent on OCN.


----------



## novemberzzz

AW YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!



Time to whine about balance and pull the league card.


----------



## General123

Ah all you guys hitting masters makes me want to start grinding out diamond.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *novemberzzz*
> 
> AW YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
> 
> 
> 
> Time to whine about balance and pull the league card.


Grats!

but gotta wait for GM to do that


----------



## Deathclaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *novemberzzz*
> 
> AW YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
> 
> 
> 
> Time to whine about balance and pull the league card.


wonder if all games 6min mark*


----------



## DoomDash

I remember when oc.net had l ike 4 masters including myself.


----------



## FrankoNL

Gold


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Gold


Gold is a great league, it is where you get to learn everything needed for the upper leagues.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Gold is a great league, it is where you get to learn everything needed for the upper leagues.


Being never played SC2 i stayed in gold league like only 2-3w before moving to platinum though


----------



## Accuracy158

I'm in Gold league now was Bronze in WoL but started playing a lot more after HoTS came out. Still struggling with some massive supply blocks and pretty bad at TvP.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

QUESTION

I'm talking about the evolutions outside of missions btw

How do I choose an evolution??????????????? I can click on the 3 choices and it will say the properties, but how do I select 1 or the other??? What button??? Its not enter, I've double clicked, there is no other button saying click to "buy" the evolution


----------



## novemberzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deathclaw*
> 
> wonder if all games 6min mark*


Actually the first 10pool I've done this season, admittedly it doesn't work against masters players.


----------



## novemberzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> QUESTION
> 
> I'm talking about the evolutions outside of missions btw
> 
> How do I choose an evolution??????????????? I can click on the 3 choices and it will say the properties, but how do I select 1 or the other??? What button??? Its not enter, I've double clicked, there is no other button saying click to "buy" the evolution


Just clicking on it will select it.


----------



## i544cj0n35

Hey everyone. One quick question:does heart of the swarm support crossfire? I haven't been able to get a definitive answer through Google.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DoomDash

Swarm hosts are stupid. All of these tanks are 190-205 kills lol.



Containing Zerg is boring







. But really the more and more swarm hosts I play the more and more convinced they will be wayyyy too strong against mech. I guess that makes sense but man does Blizzard seem to hate us using siege tanks right now.


----------



## jellybeans69

Swarmhosts are awesome , but you rarely see pure mech play from terrans nowadays , mostly biomech


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Swarmhosts are awesome , but you rarely see pure mech play from terrans nowadays , mostly biomech


Lol I believe that is why Doom said blizzard hates terrans using tanks. lol

Also, look at big doom representing OCN!!


----------



## NewHighScore

Guys I'm having a TON of trouble in my TvZ. No matter what I try I just cant seem to win. My drops are easily shut down because of superior scouting. Any ground attack I do get's easily shut down. Can't mech because of clouds. I just don't know what to do. And if I try to just macro up on 3 bases they just end up with 10 bzillion bases and superior tech/economy.

I generally try using the flash build and taeja build but taeja seems to only work on maps with a close natural with a narrow path leading in. Only way I seem to be able to win is silly stuff like reactor hellion allin cheese and silly stuff like last night I went pure widow mine/blue flame into ravens and vikings with the hell/mine.


----------



## DoomDash

I wouldn't even recommend mech at this point. I mean my win rate vs Z is really good but only because most Z's don't viper/swarm host.

My current stats since HotS ( both seasons ):


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Guys I'm having a TON of trouble in my TvZ. No matter what I try I just cant seem to win. My drops are easily shut down because of superior scouting. Any ground attack I do get's easily shut down. Can't mech because of clouds. I just don't know what to do. And if I try to just macro up on 3 bases they just end up with 10 bzillion bases and superior tech/economy.
> 
> I generally try using the flash build and taeja build but taeja seems to only work on maps with a close natural with a narrow path leading in. Only way I seem to be able to win is silly stuff like reactor hellion allin cheese and silly stuff like last night I went pure widow mine/blue flame into ravens and vikings with the hell/mine.


Maybe it's just me but I always find an early tank + marine drop to do a disproportionately high amount of damage if it's well positioned. For mid-game you can queue up multi-pronged drops as you macro to keep them busy in their base, try to snipe expos and tech buildings.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wouldn't even recommend mech at this point. I mean my win rate vs Z is really good but only because most Z's don't viper/swarm host.
> 
> My current stats since HotS ( both seasons ):


Strange. Most zergs I play will definitely viper if they see mech. Like 100% of them LOL.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I always find an early tank + marine drop to do a disproportionately high amount of damage if it's well positioned. For mid-game you can queue up multi-pronged drops as you macro to keep them busy in their base, try to snipe expos and tech buildings.


Hrmm I dunno if it's because of my newbie league but it seems as though after the 9-10 minute mark where I have dropship they are almost always having static defense. Like 1 spore and 2 spines in the min of the natural or 3rd and sometimes even in the main. Also the drops are easily scouted from overlords/creep. Really not sure what to do. I've just been hellion allin cheesing which seems to work great but I'd like to learn how to beat zerg in a means other than allin.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *novemberzzz*
> 
> Just clicking on it will select it.


I just noticed the evolution mission, and for the zerglings I did it and was given a choice of raptor or fast/group spawn, and I choose 1

But before that, when I am 1st told a new evolution is available, I go into the evo-pit, click on a zerg type, last night the hydralisk, and it pops up the screen with 3 circles for 3 traits, and it says choose 1

Now at that point my memory says that I could not find out what the trait did, I'm only given its name. So I left-clicked 1 of them, at which point I could get a description of each 1 and the "choose mutation ..." message is gone

So was that my choice, when I for the very 1st time clicked on 1 of the 3 circles?????????? Am I supposed to choice just based on a name alone???? What don't I get here.

I'm not at all math/science stupid btw


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Strange. Most zergs I play will definitely viper if they see mech. Like 100% of them LOL.
> Hrmm I dunno if it's because of my newbie league but it seems as though after the 9-10 minute mark where I have dropship they are almost always having static defense. Like 1 spore and 2 spines in the min of the natural or 3rd and sometimes even in the main. Also the drops are easily scouted from overlords/creep. Really not sure what to do. I've just been hellion allin cheesing which seems to work great but I'd like to learn how to beat zerg in a means other than allin.


1 spore and 2 spines at each base sounds like a lot for the 9-10 minute mark. What league is this?

I don't know Terran's timings that well but it's definitely possible to have your first drop well before the 9 minute mark. I know that cloaked banshees can hit starting from around 7 minutes so an early drop can come at about the same time.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> 1 spore and 2 spines at each base sounds like a lot for the 9-10 minute mark. What league is this?
> 
> I don't know Terran's timings that well but it's definitely possible to have your first drop well before the 9 minute mark. I know that cloaked banshees can hit starting from around 7 minutes so an early drop can come at about the same time.


I am in diamond league. Cloaked banshee should only be hitting that early if it is based off 1 base play which is a major no-no vs zerg. And if it is that early on a 2 base play you are sacrificing army heavily and will have very weak defenses. And yes 1 drop is doable at around the 7-7:30 mark but like I mentioned before it's easily scoutable with overlords and creep and is easily shutdown with a flood of lings and just a single spore/queen.

I dunno I am obviously doing something wrong. I just don't know what that is.


----------



## poroboszcz

BM on Korean ladder:



It hurt.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Strange. Most zergs I play will definitely viper if they see mech. Like 100% of them LOL.
> Hrmm I dunno if it's because of my newbie league but it seems as though after the 9-10 minute mark where I have dropship they are almost always having static defense. Like 1 spore and 2 spines in the min of the natural or 3rd and sometimes even in the main. Also the drops are easily scouted from overlords/creep. Really not sure what to do. I've just been hellion allin cheesing which seems to work great but I'd like to learn how to beat zerg in a means other than allin.


I am top diamond and I used to have problem with zerg as well,despite the fact I followed the same build as you. Not sure about the name of the build but that was the one with 2 reaper and hellions into expand?

Anyways, this works, the problem I had though, and I think it is the same problem you have(i guess) is that you are not using your hellions and reapers correctly. The goal when you have reapers is, #1 above all.. Keep them alive. Try not to trade them in for a kill. At the same time if possible try to get a few drone kills. If it gets too dangerous then back out. Now with hellions, sometimes the zerg player is very well protected. Now if you have saved your reapers I would suggest adding hellions and reaper into one control group(the reason I love saving my reapers is because it is wonderful to use them to snipe queens as they regenerate health and hellions do not). I usually wait for 6 hellions to be constructed and move out. My goal is to take out drones.reduce creep spread, take out zerglings and take out queens

If there are a ton of zerglings I prioritize them. Thing is, the more zerglings you kill off with your 6 hellions the less power he will have at the beginning, also, the less banelings he can have at the beginning as well. See where I'm going there? If you can't hit his economy reduce his unit's effectiveness. If you see roaches use your hellions and reapers for map control and start producing widow mines asap.

Also learn to love splitting marines. I never used split till plat league... Plat league I started neglecting macro and started splitting. Splitting is just so effective that I won games in which I was economically behind. A good split can make a zerg player waste more money trying to kill you with banelings than you are losing while dying ;-)

Where you might be failing is maybe the multi tasking since you say you are new, but then again that's why we have leagues. Usually you would want to harass with reapers at the same time you wanna wall in if there is a big ramp. While doing that you wanna construct structures and roll out hellions... So yeah..deqling with zerg is really very intensive macro/micro early game because you want to cause damage and at the same time you wanna construct things, wall in etc etc. Good luck anyway and if you need any help let me know. You can send me replays if you want and I'll analyze them for you


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> BM on Korean ladder:
> 
> 
> 
> It hurt.


Lawl +rep


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Lawl +rep


LOL! You think he was being serious?

Time to walk out and insult people by calling them mother fathers. And if they don't agree then they're sunglass beaches

so why don't you just central park up


----------



## DoomDash

Finally got my new PC finished, too bad I play SCII on low lol.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Finally got my new PC finished, too bad I play SCII on low lol.


That's interesting, why do you play it on low? Is that by choice?


----------



## jellybeans69

So i've heard i should never base trade with terran! F.. that i got moar!
He lost in the end , his push was like 4-5 thors + 7-8 tanks iirc. I had 2 bases left while i was sniping last of his buildings and no detection left since i killed his cc's with sh's + mutas



Replay here








http://drop.sc/332287


----------



## dutchgenius

I could use some advice if you guys don't mind. I have been playing SC2 since WOL and very much enjoy the campaign, but admittedly I am not very good at multiplayer. I used to be a raid healer in WoW and loved the pressure, but SC2 1v1 is just so damn stressful I have trouble making it through the 5 placement matches without wanting to just quit. I have tried 3v3 random, which I enjoy because it feels like less pressure... until you are getting called out by your teammates for sucking.

I managed to make 1v1 Gold a couple seasons back, and I am trying to give it another go right now. Placed in bronze (no surprise) but did manage to win at least 2 of my placement matches. I love watching the Husky videos and love the concept of the game, just not sure I am cut out for this (much like my arch-nemesis - Rollerblading). I don't usually have such a hard time with PC games... well never actually. But SC2 1v1 is like the first date with a supermodel from hell - oh the nerves!

I have always played Terran because I felt like they would be the easiest transition from the campaign, but am thinking maybe I should change things up? I do actually try to have a build order and use a strategy based on scouting (sometimes) so I am a step above Bronze League Heroes (I would like to think at least). But maybe Zerg/Protoss is easier or more noob friendly. My macro has improved lately and I can get the army on the field, I just always end up missing the small details like micro control, remembering to get the armory so I can get 2/2 marines, being able to scan in a moment's notice when DT are killing my SCV's. When I play random, I do enjoy it, albeit against the AI... not sure at all how that translates to real scenarios.

Would love some advice from the better players here. I am willing to put in some time and learn, but not to the degree where I am training more than actually playing and enjoying the game. After all, I can't get any lower than bronze. I know that watching replays and seeing how others do things can help, but sometimes I just get lost in how entertaining they are, that I am not sure I am taking that much away from them... or will be able to reproduce their technique even.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> That's interesting, why do you play it on low? Is that by choice?


Yes, makes him feel pro







All tournaments I ever watched were on max graphics btw


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutchgenius*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I could use some advice if you guys don't mind. I have been playing SC2 since WOL and very much enjoy the campaign, but admittedly I am not very good at multiplayer. I used to be a raid healer in WoW and loved the pressure, but SC2 1v1 is just so damn stressful I have trouble making it through the 5 placement matches without wanting to just quit. I have tried 3v3 random, which I enjoy because it feels like less pressure... until you are getting called out by your teammates for sucking.
> 
> I managed to make 1v1 Gold a couple seasons back, and I am trying to give it another go right now. Placed in bronze (no surprise) but did manage to win at least 2 of my placement matches. I love watching the Husky videos and love the concept of the game, just not sure I am cut out for this (much like my arch-nemesis - Rollerblading). I don't usually have such a hard time with PC games... well never actually. But SC2 1v1 is like the first date with a supermodel from hell - oh the nerves!
> 
> I have always played Terran because I felt like they would be the easiest transition from the campaign, but am thinking maybe I should change things up? I do actually try to have a build order and use a strategy based on scouting (sometimes) so I am a step above Bronze League Heroes (I would like to think at least). But maybe Zerg/Protoss is easier or more noob friendly. My macro has improved lately and I can get the army on the field, I just always end up missing the small details like micro control, remembering to get the armory so I can get 2/2 marines, being able to scan in a moment's notice when DT are killing my SCV's. When I play random, I do enjoy it, albeit against the AI... not sure at all how that translates to real scenarios.
> 
> Would love some advice from the better players here. I am willing to put in some time and learn, but not to the degree where I am training more than actually playing and enjoying the game. After all, I can't get any lower than bronze. I know that watching replays and seeing how others do things can help, but sometimes I just get lost in how entertaining they are, that I am not sure I am taking that much away from them... or will be able to reproduce their technique even.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I haven't played sc2 at all at max i play few games a day maybe with sometimes skipping days not playing at all and i'm in plat by simply reading up on some mehanics and build orders on TeamLiquid forums. As long as you train some muscle memory and memorize some stuff its should be rather easy getting at least till gold especially with Terran imo







There's just too many annoying things a terran can do.but other terrans will probably be better at commenting on that and suggesting builds.


----------



## dutchgenius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I haven't played sc2 at all at max i play few games a day maybe with sometimes skipping days not playing at all and i'm in plat by simply reading up on some mehanics and build orders on TeamLiquid forums. As long as you train some muscle memory and memorize some stuff its should be rather easy getting at least till gold especially with Terran imo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's just too many annoying things a terran can do.but other terrans will probably be better at commenting on that and suggesting builds.


the issue I have is with all the damn micro (that you see pros doing). is there a race that requires the least amount of micro?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Finally got my new PC finished, too bad I play SCII on low lol.


I still want your reasons for this









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutchgenius*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I could use some advice if you guys don't mind. I have been playing SC2 since WOL and very much enjoy the campaign, but admittedly I am not very good at multiplayer. I used to be a raid healer in WoW and loved the pressure, but SC2 1v1 is just so damn stressful I have trouble making it through the 5 placement matches without wanting to just quit. I have tried 3v3 random, which I enjoy because it feels like less pressure... until you are getting called out by your teammates for sucking.
> 
> I managed to make 1v1 Gold a couple seasons back, and I am trying to give it another go right now. Placed in bronze (no surprise) but did manage to win at least 2 of my placement matches. I love watching the Husky videos and love the concept of the game, just not sure I am cut out for this (much like my arch-nemesis - Rollerblading). I don't usually have such a hard time with PC games... well never actually. But SC2 1v1 is like the first date with a supermodel from hell - oh the nerves!
> 
> I have always played Terran because I felt like they would be the easiest transition from the campaign, but am thinking maybe I should change things up? I do actually try to have a build order and use a strategy based on scouting (sometimes) so I am a step above Bronze League Heroes (I would like to think at least). But maybe Zerg/Protoss is easier or more noob friendly. My macro has improved lately and I can get the army on the field, I just always end up missing the small details like micro control, remembering to get the armory so I can get 2/2 marines, being able to scan in a moment's notice when DT are killing my SCV's. When I play random, I do enjoy it, albeit against the AI... not sure at all how that translates to real scenarios.
> 
> Would love some advice from the better players here. I am willing to put in some time and learn, but not to the degree where I am training more than actually playing and enjoying the game. After all, I can't get any lower than bronze. I know that watching replays and seeing how others do things can help, but sometimes I just get lost in how entertaining they are, that I am not sure I am taking that much away from them... or will be able to reproduce their technique even.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I'd say watch Day9 videos, they are far more educational than just watching full on casts of professionals like from Husky/HDStarcraft. You don't get the epic feeling of the realtime casts, but you learn a lot more. Perfect for a budding SC2 player!

Regarding micro, I'd say stick with Terran. The micro really isn't hard, just get the hotkeys sorted out and it'll be chill.

Do all the efficient stuff like shift queueing siege tanks and whatever.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutchgenius*
> 
> the issue I have is with all the damn micro (that you see pros doing). is there a race that requires the least amount of micro?


I would even say that's a relative question , zerg is often unforgiving in terms of micro two mines and you can lose your whole muta flock , ling/bane flock/drones to hellion run by/hellbat drop
While splitting marines is micro from my point of view (as a Zerg) Terran has the least micro required. Toss has forcefields/blink/feedback and alot of other stuff , zerg has infestors , vipers , injecting , spreading creep, his whole armies to micro and avoid alot of stuff at all times while micro of terran is just drops and splitting bio balls for most part.

Might be biased , don't lynch me.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> That's interesting, why do you play it on low? Is that by choice?


Lots of people prefer to play on low because there is too much "ooh shiney" happening when graphics are maxed. Complete BS to me imo. SC2 doesn't have that great of graphics. The only benefit is that it's a tad easier to see cloaked units. Personally I feel like it's a monkey see monkey do type of thing.

I played on my integrated on the 2500k for 1 week while I was waiting for the 600 series to drop and I could not stand it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutchgenius*
> 
> the issue I have is with all the damn micro (that you see pros doing). is there a race that requires the least amount of micro?


PROTOSS!!! This is how you win with protoss. 1a, fffff, ttt.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I would even say that's a relative question , zerg is often unforgiving in terms of micro two mines and you can lose your whole muta flock , ling/bane flock/drones to hellion run by/hellbat drop
> While splitting marines is micro from my point of view (as a Zerg) Terran has the least micro required. Toss has forcefields/blink/feedback and alot of other stuff , zerg has infestors , vipers , injecting , spreading creep, his whole armies to micro and avoid alot of stuff at all times while micro of terran is just drops and splitting bio balls for most part.
> 
> Might be biased , don't lynch me.


I'm not lynching but pretty much the WHOLE sc2 community agrees that terran requires the most micro and protoss requires the least. Zerg is in the middle.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutchgenius*
> 
> the issue I have is with all the damn micro (that you see pros doing). is there a race that requires the least amount of micro?


Protoss is generally considered to have the lowest APM requirements for both micro and macro.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Lots of people prefer to play on low because there is too much "ooh shiney" happening when graphics are maxed. Complete BS to me imo. SC2 doesn't have that great of graphics. The only benefit is that it's a tad easier to see cloaked units. Personally I feel like it's a monkey see monkey do type of thing.
> 
> I played on my integrated on the 2500k for 1 week while I was waiting for the 600 series to drop and I could not stand it.
> PROTOSS!!! This is how you win with protoss. 1a, fffff, ttt.
> I'm not lynching but pretty much the WHOLE sc2 community agrees that terran requires the most micro and protoss requires the least. Zerg is in the middle.


I would agree if it said terrans macro requires most attention i would agree otherwise idk really as i said it just seems like splitting and dropping as nowadays u see mostly bio balls with some mines or tanks in TvT mixed in. While both protoss has to use alot more at same time not to make mistakes against it. Also being race easiest to turtle with.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I would agree if it said terrans macro requires most attention i would agree otherwise idk really as i said it just seems like splitting and dropping as nowadays u see mostly bio balls with some mines or tanks in TvT mixed in. While both protoss has to use alot more at same time not to make mistakes against it. Also being race easiest to turtle with.


Take this for example. There is usually no situations where terran can just 1a unless its in the first 7 minutes of the game and lets face it, those attacks just don't work anymore, at least past bronze league.

TvP - Bioball/Viking/Ghost vs Zealot/Stalker/Sentry/Colossus/HT

Terran has to have 3 control groups. Need to kite gateway units, split from storms/thermal lance and micro vikings so they don't die to stalkers/storms and micro ghosts on the side to try sneak in for emp. Meanwhile Protoss needs 1 control group to 1a, ffff, ttt and maybe dance back and forth a bit.

The fact that terran has to do all the sick micro vs a 1a is ridiculous. If you chose not to engage in a situation like that it requires constant multi drops and harassment meanwhile keeping up the macro. It's a crap ton of micro whether you like to think so or not.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Take this for example. There is usually no situations where terran can just 1a unless its in the first 7 minutes of the game and lets face it, those attacks just don't work anymore, at least past bronze league.
> 
> TvP - Bioball/Viking/Ghost vs Zealot/Stalker/Sentry/Colossus/HT
> 
> Terran has to have 3 control groups. Need to kite gateway units, split from storms/thermal lance and micro vikings so they don't die to stalkers/storms and micro ghosts on the side to try sneak in for emp. Meanwhile Protoss needs 1 control group to 1a, ffff, ttt and maybe dance back and forth a bit.
> 
> The fact that terran has to do all the sick micro vs a 1a is ridiculous. If you chose not to engage in a situation like that it requires constant multi drops and harassment meanwhile keeping up the macro. It's a crap ton of micro whether you like to think so or not.


He has to storm , he has to forcefield , he has to micro his coll away from terrans vikings while using blink to catch up the time while terrans bio ball will just stim away. Also as a zerg you always have to fungal , micro from your wm's (i'm actually fine with them as a unit) , send in banes and flank while all bio ball has to do is split a little bit and stutter step as almost in all cases Terran armies will trade succesfully of minerals lost on both sides.

As i've said to someone recently. Terran complain about P , P complain about Z lil bit and Z's complain about T the magical triangle


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> That's interesting, why do you play it on low? Is that by choice?


Yes, many people prefer low (including me) because it makes everything clearer. Units have simpler colors and are easier to distinguish between. Silly things like shiny reflections/map objects don't distract you as much. Easier to micro when units die there's no (stupid) death animations/physics effects - just try to spot your units if you charge them into a line of tanks on max settings - you'll see it's explosions blocking your view everywhere making it next to impossible to split/micro efficiently, or just check out this video:






Max settings are fun for campaign and arcade games and such, but if you're playing on max on ladder you're at a disadvantage.



> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yes, makes him feel pro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All tournaments I ever watched were on max graphics btw


That's because we watch the spectator/caster's streams who have their settings on max, in any tournament pro's get to choose their settings in a significant portion of players would switch their settings to low. MLG even had a rule that players may not use Ultra settings though i'm not sure if that's still a rule these days.


----------



## Anti!!

It is easier to see cloaked units and you dont have to squint to see through the physics of flying corpses to perform heals with queens. I still run it maxed though. I waited 10 y3ars for better graphics. Ill take the disadvantage. Lol


----------



## SageQi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Lots of people prefer to play on low because there is too much "ooh shiney" happening when graphics are maxed. Complete BS to me imo. SC2 doesn't have that great of graphics. The only benefit is that it's a tad easier to see cloaked units. Personally I feel like it's a monkey see monkey do type of thing.
> 
> I played on my integrated on the 2500k for 1 week while I was waiting for the 600 series to drop and I could not stand it.
> PROTOSS!!! This is how you win with protoss. 1a, fffff, ttt.
> I'm not lynching but pretty much the WHOLE sc2 community agrees that terran requires the most micro and protoss requires the least. Zerg is in the middle.


I will have to agree to this. As a general consensus from the starcraft community Terran is considered the hardest race to play in terms of micro and macro management while protoss is the easiest. But this only holds true when the Terran is going for a bio build over a mech build.


----------



## DoomDash

As far as my graphic settings, yes it's just because it looks super clean and it makes it easier to play. I don't if the difference is huge, I could see myself going back and forth on it.

As far as which race has the hardest macro and micro mechanics? Terran. I am biased sure but just watch any pro level game and pay attention at how much more micro Terran needs to survive, and more importantly how precise it is. Also just think about Terran base management. We have SCV's which we have to pay attention to while building ( and after ), we have tech labs and reactors to sort or switch to, and we have more buttons to press to select between all of our production facilities than any other race. I can't tell you how much easier it is to just worry about a hatchery or gateways + robo ect. Your SCV's getting stuck between buildings or minerals will get old real quick, as well as units getting stuck because it's hard to always quickly build your base in a nice fashion. If I had a dollar for every time I got a unit or SCV stuck.....

Zerg involves lots of fast micro but it's generally much smaller broader types of micro. More movement micro than anything

. Protoss micro I think is the easiest. Everything kinda moves at a good pace compared to other Protoss units, some units can walk on top of each other, and you have a lot of health leeway. I've been *****ing about Protoss design since WoL came out. They are just a low skill cap race. I think Protoss is more about build order wins than anything.... but anyway I'm starting to rant.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> As far as my graphic settings, yes it's just because it looks super clean and it makes it easier to play. I don't if the difference is huge, I could see myself going back and forth on it.
> 
> As far as which race has the hardest macro and micro mechanics? Terran. I am biased sure but just watch any pro level game and pay attention at how much more micro Terran needs to survive, and more importantly how precise it is. Also just think about Terran base management. We have SCV's which we have to pay attention to while building ( and after ), we have tech labs and reactors to sort or switch to, and we have more buttons to press to select between all of our production facilities than any other race. I can't tell you how much easier it is to just worry about a hatchery or gateways + robo ect. Your SCV's getting stuck between buildings or minerals will get old real quick, as well as units getting stuck because it's hard to always quickly build your base in a nice fashion. If I had a dollar for every time I got a unit or SCV stuck.....
> 
> Zerg involves lots of fast micro but it's generally much smaller broader types of micro. More movement micro than anything
> 
> . Protoss micro I think is the easiest. Everything kinda moves at a good pace compared to other Protoss units, some units can walk on top of each other, and you have a lot of health leeway. I've been *****ing about Protoss design since WoL came out. They are just a low skill cap race. I think Protoss is more about build order wins than anything.... but anyway I'm starting to rant.


On another note. Did ubuntu pick up drivers for all that sick hardware pretty well? Did you have to get all of them specially?


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I would agree if it said terrans macro requires most attention i would agree otherwise idk really as i said it just seems like splitting and dropping as nowadays u see mostly bio balls with some mines or tanks in TvT mixed in. While both protoss has to use alot more at same time not to make mistakes against it. Also being race easiest to turtle with.
> 
> 
> 
> Take this for example. There is usually no situations where terran can just 1a unless its in the first 7 minutes of the game and lets face it, those attacks just don't work anymore, at least past bronze league.
> 
> TvP - Bioball/Viking/Ghost vs Zealot/Stalker/Sentry/Colossus/HT
> 
> Terran has to have 3 control groups. Need to kite gateway units, split from storms/thermal lance and micro vikings so they don't die to stalkers/storms and micro ghosts on the side to try sneak in for emp. Meanwhile Protoss needs 1 control group to 1a, ffff, ttt and maybe dance back and forth a bit.
> 
> The fact that terran has to do all the sick micro vs a 1a is ridiculous. If you chose not to engage in a situation like that it requires constant multi drops and harassment meanwhile keeping up the macro. It's a crap ton of micro whether you like to think so or not.
Click to expand...

LOL this is so bias it's ridiculous.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Protoss micro I think is the easiest. Everything kinda moves at a good pace compared to other Protoss units, some units can walk on top of each other, and you have a lot of health leeway. I've been *****ing about Protoss design since WoL came out. They are just a low skill cap race. I think Protoss is more about build order wins than anything.... but anyway I'm starting to rant.


Aside from a little health leeway, Protoss is extremely unforgiving in it's micro, especially when it comes to the expensive units.


----------



## General123

There is so much more to toss, but I would expect someone who does not play toss to not know it. You have to have the right unit comp(this is like the #1 thing for toss, without a proper one, you get rolled.) You also have to move Colossus away from vikings and either storm or blink under them, and then with HT you have to move them or put them in a warp prism to keep them from getting emp'd. You probably have never played a PvP or anything like that, but you still have to pull away low units early game if you want to win. You can't just A move.


----------



## jellybeans69

Also big part of SC2 community agrees that Terran is hardest up to master level not requires the most micro out of race itself.

As I said before Zergs complaing about Terrans , Terrans about Toss (oh noes there's 99x all-in he can do against me and if I don't scout i'm dead) , and Toss partially about Z


----------



## 13321G4

I believe there are more all ins for T then that there are for P in PvT... And you make it sound like P doesn't have to scout, whilst T can go MMM for so long and be ok.

P is IMO the most intelligent race. The (macro) openings for each matchup is so different with so many variations and motivations. Not just 1 Rax FE or 15 pool 15 hatch into a quick third.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I believe there are more all ins for T then that there are for P in PvT... And you make it sound like P doesn't have to scout, whilst T can go MMM for so long and be ok.
> 
> P is IMO the most intelligent race. The (macro) openings for each matchup is so different with so many variations and motivations. Not just 1 Rax FE or 15 pool 15 hatch into a quick third.


There are more openings for all races than what you stated.. I believe we are all falling to biased opinions now. I personally have seen tons of viable openings from terran. So, we should all digress. There is no need for me to comment on zergs openings as I would be biased also. lol


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> LOL this is so bias it's ridiculous.


It's not bias at all, it's the truth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I believe there are more all ins for T then that there are for P in PvT... And you make it sound like P doesn't have to scout, whilst T can go MMM for so long and be ok.


Allin vs P in TvP? Are you serious? We all know the MSC and that silly photon overcharge prevents any kind of early allins. And who said anything about protoss not having to scout? Please, step of your high horse.

I would really like to know what these terran allins are.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> There are more openings for all races than what you stated.. I believe we are all falling to biased opinions now. I personally have seen tons of viable openings from terran. So, we should all digress. There is no need for me to comment on zergs openings as I would be biased also. lol


Anything latter than 10p will usually get blocked by both toss/terran walls. Therefor it is usual either 15h15p or 15p15h (all ins not counted and they would get shut-down rather easy with blocking and with toss having MSC to defend early ling pressure. Only thing where'd different opening is not exactly all-in might be ZvZ mirror else other openings will put you behind almost always against semi-decent opponents


----------



## poroboszcz

I think most of you get it wrong. The differences in race mechanics are negligible at some point and you're going to need a similar skillset to be successful with any race.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Anything latter than 10p will usually get blocked by both toss/terran walls. Therefor it is usual either 15h15p or 15p15h (all ins not counted and they would get shut-down rather easy with blocking and with toss having MSC to defend early ling pressure. Only thing where'd different opening is not exactly all-in might be ZvZ mirror else other openings will put you behind almost always against semi-decent opponents


Tell my 1v1 rank match opponents that. Lol

You can check my link in my sig. I been bringing unsuspecting tosses to their knees with a 15 whatever opening 2 base only.

<3 though


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Tell my 1v1 rank match opponents that. Lol
> 
> You can check my link in my sig. I been bringing unsuspecting tosses to their knees with a 15 whatever opening 2 base only.
> 
> <3 though


In general with earlier pools you are behind economically, however as many do scout (well at least players im playing in plat) you can easy make them overreact i baited 2 early gateways with 8 pool today while actually building just 2 zerglins and macroing behind and he stayed on one base for soooo long due to that.


----------



## xyeLz

If I link my stream here will people come and help me learn how to play better? I could use some moral support when I play - or at least some friends since I hate doing 1v1s. I feel so alone.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xyeLz*
> 
> If I link my stream here will people come and help me learn how to play better? I could use some moral support when I play - or at least some friends since I hate doing 1v1s. I feel so alone.


Holy hydralisk what a sissy marine..


----------



## NewHighScore

Idra was released from EG!!!!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411840

I think this had something to do with it.

http://i.imgur.com/FgezXgU.jpg


----------



## poroboszcz

Good for EG.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> LOL this is so bias it's ridiculous.
> Aside from a little health leeway, Protoss is extremely unforgiving in it's micro, especially when it comes to the expensive units.


Still more forgiving than the other races. I said I was slightly biased but I still think my points hold water. I've been playing Starcraft for a very long time and that's my opinion ( and as random in BW ). I always had that opinion of Protoss since launch, and I keep saying I won't respect protoss until they replace the Colossus with the Reaver.

and on the Idra note.
I love me some idra BM, sad face.


----------



## poroboszcz

Idra is a great example of how you can play Starcraft for a very long time and still be wrong about everything.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Idra is a great example of how you can play Starcraft for a very long time and still be wrong about everything.


When he analyses games he's pretty good and I would love to see games he left played out by two very close in skill wise Korean pro's. Pretty sure in most of cases his decision to leave would be game wise correct while not being good from watchers perspective as it's fun to watch games till end.

Also all those hypocrites hating in him on TL forums when they're no better, but at least IdrA always speaks his mind. Either i'm sure he'll be fine in the end.


----------



## FrankoNL

but what will happen to IdrA now? he just moved to SF for the new EG house. I assume there are not a lot of teams jumping out to sign him. His accomplishments last year and a half have been shaky to say the least. Also, he is arrogant and BM. Whenever a player beats him it's either because of balancing issues or the other player sucks so much that he can't get a "read".

Like Stephano once said about a player complaining over balancing issues: He can't complain, he does not have the right. He played like ****.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> but what will happen to IdrA now? he just moved to SF for the new EG house. I assume there are not a lot of teams jumping out to sign him. His accomplishments last year and a half have been shaky to say the least. Also, he is arrogant and BM. Whenever a player beats him it's either because of balancing issues or the other player sucks so much that he can't get a "read".
> 
> Like Stephano once said about a player complaining over balancing issues: He can't complain, he does not have the right. He played like ****.


Because Stephano is such an example of behavior..


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Because Stephano is such an example of behavior..


Well, no. But he does it to put on a "Show" .. he's different during the interviews. IdrA is just a complaining little kid, even on normal ladder games. Stephano does not bm on ladder or on forumposts for that matter.


----------



## jellybeans69

IdrA Leaving EG
Stephano probably retiring soon.
Demus is not my piece of cake
Rest of team is boring.

EG will be boring as team after all of that.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> IdrA Leaving EG
> Stephano probably retiring soon.
> Demus is not my piece of cake
> Rest of team is boring.
> 
> EG will be boring as team after all of that.


Stephano has been saying he will retire at the end of the year for two years now









But he is their only top notch player. Maybe together with demuslim. I think EG needs to sign some big names in the near future. At this time, TL just has better players. ( Hero and Taeja for example )

Edit: can someone post the news message regarding idra for me? I can't open the link at work since i am behind a proxy.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Stephano has been saying he will retire at the end of the year for two years now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he is their only top notch player. Maybe together with demuslim. I think EG needs to sign some big names in the near future. At this time, TL just has better players. ( Hero and Taeja for example )
> 
> Edit: can someone post the news message regarding idra for me? I can't open the link at work since i am behind a proxy.


He's the only interesting player on their team for me currently.


----------



## FrankoNL

Oh i forgot Jaedong. How can i forget him?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Oh i forgot Jaedong. How can i forget him?


Indeed , 2 interesting players it is then. Incontrol is funny and great as a caster though.

Also - idra might get a personal sponsor you never know [IBM] IdrA


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> When he analyses games he's pretty good and I would love to see games he left played out by two very close in skill wise Korean pro's. Pretty sure in most of cases his decision to leave would be game wise correct while not being good from watchers perspective as it's fun to watch games till end.
> 
> Also all those hypocrites hating in him on TL forums when they're no better, but at least IdrA always speaks his mind. Either i'm sure he'll be fine in the end.


Yeah, I'm not questioning he's knowledge and he even does ok as a caster, but his attitude is just terrible and he's biased to the point of being delusional which seriously impacts his progress as a player. He had no grounds whatsoever to leave the game against Polt and no amount of analysis could prove he was on a lost position or even a meaningful disadvantage. He actually played that game really well. (Reference for those who did not see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_k73V4_WRs)

I liked Idra for his personality and standing out in the crowd of many players with no character, but on top of his BM he also used to play well. Recently he's just been an average player *****ing about everything. Telling code S players they don't deserve a win because of the race they play? Come on.

He's now crossed the line by not even trying in pretty much the most important sc2 tournament and also insulting the whole Starcraft community and his own fans. I believe he's got what he deserved, but I also hope he learns the lesson and stays in sc2.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Stephano has been saying he will retire at the end of the year for two years now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he is their only top notch player. Maybe together with demuslim. I think EG needs to sign some big names in the near future. At this time, TL just has better players. ( Hero and Taeja for example )


How about Revival and Suppy who just qualified to WCS ro16. Suppy also played one of the best games in WCS so far, thanks to his attitude being pretty much the opposite of Idra's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7IXJ8JzNVg

There are also Jaedong, Thorzain, Demuslim, Oz and aLive. I think EG has a great lineup.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Telling code S players they don't deserve a win because of the race they play?


While I really don't care about manners of person at all from one side yeah that's stupid but from other side even slightest balance adv. to race is what will win or lose games at top level because skill-wise everyone is almost equal. Just have a look at several Korean win rates in tourneys race wise.

I still think game's current state of balance is one of best there was throughout all StarCraft 2


----------



## DoomDash

Balance seems to be decent or undiscovered right now.


----------



## NewHighScore

I'm so glad they decided not to make burrow cheaper or oracles faster.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I'm so glad they decided not to make burrow cheaper or oracles faster.


Ditto. PS: I hate Vipers.


----------



## jellybeans69

Making burrow cheaper wouldn't change that much at all imo. Even if they would to remove gas cost completely it still takes long time to actually finish.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Making burrow cheaper wouldn't change that much at all imo. Even if they would to remove gas cost completely it still takes long time to actually finish.


By making it cheaper or removing the gas cost completely would in turn enable people to start researching it earlier which would in turn make it finish earlier which would change a lot actually.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> By making it cheaper or removing the gas cost completely would in turn enable people to start researching it earlier which would in turn make it finish earlier which would change a lot actually.


It still takes 2 minutes to complete doesn't it? So at earliest it would be out at 3+ mins without gas and probably 4+ mins with 50/50 , Greedy FFE's or 14CC's it wouldn't stop. Only make burrow roach rushes little bit more viable but that would hit past 5-6 minutes which is similar to DT timings of Toss (6:30-7:30?)


----------



## General123

Guess Idra being let go was a great thing for him..
http://www.twitch.tv/idrajit/old
14k viewers lol


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> Guess Idra being let go was a great thing for him..
> http://www.twitch.tv/idrajit/old
> 14k viewers lol


Yeah I was watching him a bit earlier. His attitude has also seemed to improved a bit.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Why is the game not letting my select 3v3 Ranked ??? i can only choose 1v1, 2v2, and 4v4 *** is going on???


----------



## NewHighScore

LOL I played [EG] VicPark on ladder a few games ago. A legit EG clan member. I got pwnd. I'm only diamond I have no clue why I'm matching against top 8 masters.

I'm guessing it's coach park? Anyone know?


----------



## Shadeh

You probably won a few games in a row and it tested to see where you are at


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> You probably won a few games in a row and it tested to see where you are at


This

You are becoming volatile! GASP!!


----------



## DoomDash

Man, don't go mass marauders vs a guy with mech and 4 almost full energy ravens...

27-16 so far this season... pretty happy with that!


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Man, don't go mass marauders vs a guy with mech and 4 almost full energy ravens...
> 
> 27-16 so far this season... pretty happy with that!


I'd be happy with that especially in the master league









Generally I'm happy with anything above 50/50.


----------



## jellybeans69

I feel like they might have changed cutoff's with new season, friend with 75% WR in Gold can't seem to get promoted to plat , while I tend to face a lot of last season diamonds who are now in plat.

On the ZvZ change


----------



## Shadeh

Just a random question here. Last night I decided to have a beer or two while playing StarCraft 2 before going to bed. Just because it was one of those evenings where I thought, why not? Just chill and play... Little did I know.. Either I am just bad... Orrr...one beer is enough to get you wrecked in sc2. I went from #6 diamond down to #42 diamond .. Playing around 15 games of which I lost all but one. What the hell? I played again today and nothing but wins so far. I've played even games like counter strike after more than just 2 beers once and I didn't suck at it that badly. Not like 2 beers got me drunk or anything but boy did I suck. Anyone else have a similar experience or did I really just get matched up against 15 players in a row that happen to just really be better than me? I just can't imagine.


----------



## Shadeh

Delete.. Double post sorry


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Just a random question here. Last night I decided to have a beer or two while playing StarCraft 2 before going to bed. Just because it was one of those evenings where I thought, why not? Just chill and play... Little did I know.. Either I am just bad... Orrr...one beer is enough to get you wrecked in sc2. I went from #6 diamond down to #42 diamond .. Playing around 15 games of which I lost all but one. What the hell? I played again today and nothing but wins so far. I've played even games like counter strike after more than just 2 beers once and I didn't suck at it that badly. Not like 2 beers got me drunk or anything but boy did I suck. Anyone else have a similar experience or did I really just get matched up against 15 players in a row that happen to just really be better than me? I just can't imagine.


Beer frags you up in SC2, you're not imagining.


----------



## jellybeans69

Bad days happen , on first day of season I got rolled over with 5-6 loss streak , and now i'm back up to my usual win. Before that was under 50% total Win rate , now i'm over it. Just chill and don't worry - also as I've seen several people have gone down a league from previous season and you might have been facing such players.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Bad days happen , on first day of season I got rolled over with 5-6 loss streak , and now i'm back up to my usual win. Before that was under 50% total Win rate , now i'm over it. Just chill and don't worry - also as I've seen several people have gone down a league from previous season and you might have been facing such players.


You missed the part where he was drinking BEER!!!!!!

>.>

heh


----------



## poroboszcz

Whoa, Happy just became one of my favorite Terran players (game 1 Happy vs Vortix WCS EU ro16).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Whoa, Happy just became one of my favorite Terran players (game 1 Happy vs Vortix WCS EU ro16).


Sum it up?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sum it up?





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Down to 19 SCVs and 50 food behind after 3 base roach bane bust from Vortix, comes back and wins with constant drops and multipronged harass.



The VOD is up: http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_europe/c/2287725


----------



## Filipkiewicz

Happy is never going to win major tournaments, he is not creative at all and he does not adopt. He plays 1 build order and he sticks with it no matter what and because of that he will never become as good as he could.

What build you guys are using in TvT? I am having problem in TVT this season and I dont know why, I used to have 80% win ratio last season and now I have 20%. I used to play mech and when I switched to Bio everything started to fall apart in my TVT. But my problem with mech in TvT is that you die to heavy reaper builds









now my best matchup is TvZ I have 80% and 50% TvP, just need to figure out what to do in TvT now


----------



## poroboszcz

MVP is not a creative player either and he's been doing pretty well. I'm not saying Happy is up there with code S Terrans, but he's play is great to watch. He just picked BabyKnight apart with similar style.


----------



## jellybeans69

1 beer or two should change all that much , but depends on the person i guess. Point is we all got bad days drinkin we or not.

On side note - why the heck matchmaking did put me against master while i'm still in plat







Actually did win the game , i guess he wasn't expecting 2 base roach nydus but muta play with all them queens , he seemed to be stockpiling resources while massing queens and waiting to build spire, when i killed his 3 hatches he had 1k+ resources

Here's the replay

http://drop.sc/334963 he fought till the end



Plus it's been a rather decent week comparing to last one


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Filipkiewicz*
> 
> Happy is never going to win major tournaments, he is not creative at all and he does not adopt. He plays 1 build order and he sticks with it no matter what and because of that he will never become as good as he could.
> 
> What build you guys are using in TvT? I am having problem in TVT this season and I dont know why, I used to have 80% win ratio last season and now I have 20%. I used to play mech and when I switched to Bio everything started to fall apart in my TVT. But my problem with mech in TvT is that you die to heavy reaper builds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now my best matchup is TvZ I have 80% and 50% TvP, just need to figure out what to do in TvT now


In TvP and TvT I basically have the same opener.

- 13 gas
- 1 marine
- reactor
- CC right before reactor finishes
- Constant marines
- Factory
- StarPort

and from there you transition into mech. Really good opener and very versatile. I have a good example where a guy is basically confused by how I held off his reapers so well. ( masters league )

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=282712


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> In TvP and TvT I basically have the same opener.
> 
> - 13 gas
> - 1 marine
> - reactor
> - CC right before reactor finishes
> - Constant marines
> - Factory
> - StarPort
> 
> and from there you transition into mech. Really good opener and very versatile. I have a good example where a guy is basically confused by how I held off his reapers so well. ( masters league )
> 
> http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=282712


You don't die to reapers with that build?


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> You don't die to reapers with that build?


Why would he die to Reapers? Pull an SCV or 2. Once the reactor kicks in you're safe. That said the build is still terribly sub-optimal.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Why would he die to Reapers? Pull an SCV or 2. Once the reactor kicks in you're safe. That said the build is still terribly sub-optimal.


It's one of the most common openings. The only thing that can be "optimised" is getting gas at 15 for a faster CC.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It's one of the most common openings. The only thing that can be "optimised" is getting gas at 15 for a faster CC.


15 gas for a faster CC? You ALWAYS 15 gas unless you are going for an,

A. 1-1-1 Offensive or Defensive Expand play
B. Reaper harass.

Have you watched his replay? His intention from the start is to start a macro mech game. You don't 13 gas for that. Currently the HotS meta is about Reaper expand play, ballsy gasless expo/CC FIrst, or 13 gas Harass play.

There is *zero* reason to go 13 gas unless you are going for heavy early aggression. If you want to go for a safe mech game you don't 13 gas. You are just delaying your CC for zero reason.


----------



## DoomDash

I have my build timed out very nicely. I end up being at the same point near every game and I assure you that 13 gas works wonders for me. You have to realize if you delay that gas you are short gas when your port is up, which doesn't give you the ability to get out a Raven if you need. I've timed this out with banshees and DT's many times. I've played around with lots of different timings for my entire opening and this is what I currently think is best.

Also I'm not about playing the meta game, and my results are good so far. As far as your example A) I can still put on aggression with this build early depending on what I scout, but when playing against him or repears specifically that's not an option.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Why would he die to Reapers? Pull an SCV or 2. Once the reactor kicks in you're safe. That said the build is still terribly sub-optimal.


I said reaperS not a single reaper. Just by looking at the build on paper it looks very dangerous vs 2 rax reaper fe build.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Also I'm not about playing the meta game, and my results are good so far. As far as your example A) I can still put on aggression with this build early depending on what I scout, but when playing against him or repears specifically that's not an option.


I understand you are master and im diamond but aggressive reaper openings are very common for me in tvt to the point where I ALWAYS open reapers now, even when I match against master league players. So just wondering how that works out for you against 2 or more rax reaper builds. Is it very safe?

*derp* I just read the bottom of that original post but I cant figure out how to d/l that replay.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=member_replays&member_id=167079

just dl the last one

and I havent had a single loss to reapers since I've done this opener. I used to, I spent time testing different ones and this is my favorite. Just read the text between us at the end of the match.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=member_replays&member_id=167079
> 
> just dl the last one
> 
> and I havent had a single loss to reapers since I've done this opener. I used to, I spent time testing different ones and this is my favorite. Just read the text between us at the end of the match.


Awesome I will have to try this out. I really hate the whole reaper vs reaper thing and haven't found a way to combat it besides more reapers.


----------



## NewHighScore

OMG I just made it into master league!!!!


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> OMG I just made it into master league!!!!


Congrats man, it is now your job to coach me. lapengu.923


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> OMG I just made it into master league!!!!


Congrats! and yea when I was trying Reaper openers it was like either you dedicated yourself to tons of them or you lost to someone who did.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> Congrats man, it is now your job to coach me. lapengu.923


Haha I still suck dude







. At least I feel that way. BUt I'm more than willing to play some with you and show ya the few things I do know.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Congrats! and yea when I was trying Reaper openers it was like either you dedicated yourself to tons of them or you lost to someone who did.


THanks


----------



## benben84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Haha I still suck dude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . At least I feel that way. BUt I'm more than willing to play some with you and show ya the few things I do know.


Says a guy in the masters league lol. I've never been able to get myself out of bronze league for more then a few games. I think I deserve the "I suck" title more than you! lol


----------



## Filipkiewicz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> Says a guy in the masters league lol. I've never been able to get myself out of bronze league for more then a few games. I think I deserve the "I suck" title more than you! lol


Bronze is the hardest league, once you start to understand the game it will get much easier

I was Bronze for like few months after that it was much easier to get promoted to gold, plat, dia and master


----------



## Mr357

I'm lucky enough to have a couple of friends that give me pointers all the time. One of them can beat diamond players with any race, so needless to say I wasn't in bronze for very long. I'm top 20 silver at the moment and have been switching between Terran and 'Toss. I like Toss units, but I tend to win more games as Terran.


----------



## FrankoNL

to get out of bronze: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff.


----------



## Anti!!

Anyone see lucifron spank mvp yesterday? lol

Spaniard! Spaniard! Spaniard!

Happy went down 2-0 to him also.


----------



## 13321G4

Lucifron is amazing. Didn't expect him to beat MVP but those games were pretty one sided. Good positioning, good harass. GG

Happy got ripped apart








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> to get out of bronze: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff.


>to get out of plat: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff

I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.


----------



## Twistacles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Lucifron is amazing. Didn't expect him to beat MVP but those games were pretty one sided. Good positioning, good harass. GG
> 
> Happy got ripped apart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >to get out of plat: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff
> 
> I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.


its pretty true


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> >to get out of plat: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff
> 
> I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.


Agreed. It took me longer to go from bronze to silver than silver to plat. It takes a while to develop the mechanics to macro. Most of the "better" players in the lower leagues just do the same cheesy builds, so if you don't want to cheese yourself you need to learn to counter their play.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.


Gratz on Masters But what he said is pretty true. Unless someone is offering coaching, the only way to get out is to just "macro better." I'd offer to dissect his replays but TL is a better place for that imo









On the topic of WCS. What do you guys think about the GSL? Innovation vs Symbol, Soulkey vs sOs. TvZ or TvP final? I think Soulkey is going to Nom Nom Nom sOs but we may see an upset. As for Symbol vs Innovation, 3-1 Inno. Sorry Symbol. Innovation has just been too good this last month. Looks like he's getting his first major title.


----------



## poroboszcz

Man there's some much good Starcraft to watch at the moment I don't actually have time to play. Living in EU WCS Korea is on just after I wake up, then there's WCS EU for the most of the afternoon and I always catch some WCS NA before going to sleep.

It looks like there will be a lot of TvTs in EU's premier league. I wan't to see ForGG vs Lucifron in the top 4, probably the two strongest players atm. For KR I hope for sOs vs Innovation finals.


----------



## ronnin426850

Wrong wrong wrong Wrong. Bronze is full of pro wannabes who learn good timings for attack and good unit compositions in addition to cheesy builds. It is NOT ENOUGH to just "build stuff", this is typical high league arrogance.
The game isn't easier in Bronze. Yes, pleayer's micro and overall understanding of macro sucks, but so does yours if you're in Bronze. So you need to make strategies that work For crappy players Against crappy players. And those strategies are just as complex as those on higher level.

Yes, they yield worse results vs high league players. That doesn't make them "easy".

Bottom line: you don't get out of bronze by just "building stuff", because there's a crap load of people in Bronze who put effort in their playing, and you need to put more effort than them. That's the only way. Persistency, learning curve, memory. Not "building stuff".


----------



## benben84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> to get out of bronze: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff.


ha I wish it was that easy. I've watched a ton of videos on strategies, build orders, timing, etc but I just seem to get destroyed mid game no matter what I do. I think my biggest problem is I only play at night when I'm already exhausted and don't feel like thinking and then i only play 3v3 or 4v4 with my buddies. I don't have any time to dedicate to playing by myself so I'm probably a bronzer for life. We usually get beat 4 or 5 times and then give up and go to Nexus Wars.


----------



## Twistacles

People in bronze don't understand expand timings. Theyll either sit on one or two base all game..all you have to do is a standard 3 base build and youll have so much stuff it doesnt matter what they do


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Wrong wrong wrong Wrong. Bronze is full of pro wannabes who learn good timings for attack and good unit compositions in addition to cheesy builds. It is NOT ENOUGH to just "build stuff", this is typical high league arrogance.
> The game isn't easier in Bronze. Yes, pleayer's micro and overall understanding of macro sucks, but so does yours if you're in Bronze. So you need to make strategies that work For crappy players Against crappy players. And those strategies are just as complex as those on higher level.
> 
> Yes, they yield worse results vs high league players. That doesn't make them "easy".
> 
> Bottom line: you don't get out of bronze by just "building stuff", because there's a crap load of people in Bronze who put effort in their playing, and you need to put more effort than them. That's the only way. Persistency, learning curve, memory. Not "building stuff".


Maybe not building "stuff" but building close to the proper units and scouting with safe expanding along with spending that money you can and will get out of bronze. I can prove it. Lol

I also believe it was a bit harsh to throw us all in the bucket 9f arrogant high leaguers.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Wrong wrong wrong Wrong. Bronze is full of pro wannabes who learn good timings for attack and good unit compositions in addition to cheesy builds. It is NOT ENOUGH to just "build stuff", this is typical high league arrogance.
> The game isn't easier in Bronze. Yes, pleayer's micro and overall understanding of macro sucks, but so does yours if you're in Bronze. So you need to make strategies that work For crappy players Against crappy players. And those strategies are just as complex as those on higher level.
> 
> Yes, they yield worse results vs high league players. That doesn't make them "easy".
> 
> Bottom line: you don't get out of bronze by just "building stuff", because there's a crap load of people in Bronze who put effort in their playing, and you need to put more effort than them. That's the only way. Persistency, learning curve, memory. Not "building stuff".


You have no idea what you're talking about. When we say "build stuff" we mean you need to completely ignore strategy, micro, unit composition, timings, everything except building workers, building supply, and spending your money as fast as you get it. Is there a battle? Don't look at it. Just keep building units.

This does 2 things: It will completely overwhelm any bronze player with the sheer quantity of stuff.
It's a prerequisite for getting good enough that strategy actually matters.

If you want to see how little unit composition and strategy matters in bronze league, I'll beat a bronze league player of your choice with nothing but sentries after telling him im only making sentries.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> You have no idea what you're talking about. When we say "build stuff" we mean you need to completely ignore strategy, micro, unit composition, timings, everything except building workers, building supply, and spending your money as fast as you get it. Is there a battle? Don't look at it. Just keep building units.
> 
> This does 2 things: It will completely overwhelm any bronze player with the sheer quantity of stuff.
> It's a prerequisite for getting good enough that strategy actually matters.
> 
> If you want to see how little unit composition and strategy matters in bronze league, I'll beat a bronze league player of your choice with nothing but sentries after telling him im only making sentries.


I believe that **YOU** can beat a bronze player like that. **ANOTHER** bronze player can't beat like that. You Don't get out of bronze like that unless you're already out of bronze. Trust a person who's in bronze far longer than you. Skills in bronze suck. No skills + no strategy other than "build stuff" = loss every time.


----------



## Yukss

back to platinum.. trying to get ready to start playing with to zerg..


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Lucifron is amazing. Didn't expect him to beat MVP but those games were pretty one sided. Good positioning, good harass. GG
> 
> Happy got ripped apart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >to get out of plat: just make workers and make units. It does not even matter what units. Just make a crap load of stuff
> 
> I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.
> 
> 
> 
> its pretty true
Click to expand...

Just as true for bronze as for plat.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I hate remarks like this, it's not like benben84 isn't trying. He might not have the right killer instinct yet, but damnit I hate these comments.
> 
> 
> 
> Gratz on Masters But what he said is pretty true. Unless someone is offering coaching, the only way to get out is to just "macro better." I'd offer to dissect his replays but TL is a better place for that imo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of WCS. What do you guys think about the GSL? Innovation vs Symbol, Soulkey vs sOs. TvZ or TvP final? I think Soulkey is going to Nom Nom Nom sOs but we may see an upset. As for Symbol vs Innovation, 3-1 Inno. Sorry Symbol. Innovation has just been too good this last month. Looks like he's getting his first major title.
Click to expand...

I'm diamond not masters. It's just as true for a bronze player as it is for a plat player.

And from this point on this thread got pretty chaotic imo, with trolls, sarcasm, serious help all running around and confusing me









In my experience 'lower' league players don't know when to move out or when to expand. Being scared and lacking scouting information/knowledge. It comes with experience, some learn faster, some slower. Eventually it's all about building more than your opponent is building.


----------



## poroboszcz

Lucifron gets ForGG for ro8. Awesome.


----------



## jellybeans69

Dayumn all of the matches should be awesome , Luci vs Forg two terran destroyers


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I believe that **YOU** can beat a bronze player like that. **ANOTHER** bronze player can't beat like that. You Don't get out of bronze like that unless you're already out of bronze.


You're so funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAipdf05ipo

Nothing but marines. The basic idea of "build more stuff" and focus on macro will get you out of bronze. There is no need for strategy until low Masters, and even then people's macro sucks. It took me a whole year to get out of Plat because I was not consistent with my macro. My macro is still bad. Your understanding of the game will improve massively as your macro play improves.
Quote:


> Trust a person who's in bronze far longer than you. Skills in bronze suck. No skills + no strategy other than "build stuff" = loss every time.


Bronze players lose because their macro is bad bad BAD *BAD*. Nothing else to it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Lucifron gets ForGG for ro8. Awesome.


Betting on ForGG, but we may be surprised


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## UNCMan

If it helps, one thing that helped me improve a lot was practicing the first 8 minutes of a match-up the very best I could against AI. (It wasn't perfect but I was aiming for some benchmarks).

As a Protoss player, my biggest trouble was holding 2 raxes with a 1gate expand, but once I was able to execute the first 6-8 minutes, I was normally pretty far ahead of an opponent. .....I just realized how old those build orders were in the meta.









Edit: I can sympanthize with rommin though. I mean yes, the general goal is also macro and yadda yadda but that really doesn't mean jack after hearing it without end. "Macro" encompasses a lot of things and you have to be very specific with stuff. And while the trolly type builds(ie, 1 unit type) work if you have high level mechanics (or it's all you focus on ever), I never found doing stuff like that fun. Just too grindy for my tastes.


----------



## jellybeans69

Probably thought i started using SH's due to watching TLO , but i've been using since i was in silver


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> ha I wish it was that easy. I've watched a ton of videos on strategies, build orders, timing, etc but I just seem to get destroyed mid game no matter what I do. I think my biggest problem is I only play at night when I'm already exhausted and don't feel like thinking and then i only play 3v3 or 4v4 with my buddies. I don't have any time to dedicate to playing by myself so I'm probably a bronzer for life. We usually get beat 4 or 5 times and then give up and go to Nexus Wars.


I am sorry, but it is that easy. Don't get me wrong. My highest achievement was plat, so i am not a good player by a long shot. But i suspect you were focussing on strategy to much and forgot to build workers, expand, build extra production buildings, got supply blocked a lot etc.

In bronze those are the things to focus on. Like i said: Just make sure you make a lot of stuff.

Most strategies you are trying to learn do not make any sense against a player who does not know what they are doing. The timings are completely different then they are in high leagues.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


I dare say that was a very successful session.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> You're so funny.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAipdf05ipo
> 
> Nothing but marines. The basic idea of "build more stuff" and focus on macro will get you out of bronze. There is no need for strategy until low Masters, and even then people's macro sucks. It took me a whole year to get out of Plat because I was not consistent with my macro. My macro is still bad. Your understanding of the game will improve massively as your macro play improves.
> Bronze players lose because their macro is bad bad BAD *BAD*. Nothing else to it.
> Betting on ForGG, but we may be surprised


I've also won with nothing but marines, that doesn't get your out of bronze. You go "build stuff", and the chance to win is like 50/50 if you opponent is ~the same skill as you. I believe you've all forgotten what the competition in bronze is like, or perhaps it wasn't like that back when you were still learning.
But I state it and I won't change my mind - currently "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what" won't get you out of bronze.


----------



## FrankoNL

I think it does. It will not get you out in 3 games ofcourse. But when you just build stuff and focus more on your base then on your army and/or buildorder, you will learn to "macro" better then your opponents. This will eventually win you games.

with build stuff, i do not mean building only marines, with no scv's to back it up. With build stuff i mean: Constant scv production, expand, constant have your production buildings working. Do not think about build orders


----------



## Maian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I've also won with nothing but marines, that doesn't get your out of bronze. You go "build stuff", and the chance to win is like 50/50 if you opponent is ~the same skill as you. I believe you've all forgotten what the competition in bronze is like, or perhaps it wasn't like that back when you were still learning.
> But I state it and I won't change my mind - currently "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what" won't get you out of bronze.


I've seen bronze level play. Macro is by far the biggest problem for Bronze. "Build Stuff" is meaning to focus on Macro only, and forget about focusing on everything else.

And Macroing is focusing on resource mining, expanding, and building an army. The type of army doesn't matter. Obviously you would want more than just marines, or just zerglings, or just zealots. But, at bronze level, if you can make 50 marines in 10 minutes, you'll dominate every bronze player out there.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maian*
> 
> I've seen bronze level play. Macro is by far the biggest problem for Bronze. "Build Stuff" is meaning to focus on Macro only, and forget about focusing on everything else.
> 
> And Macroing is focusing on resource mining, expanding, and building an army. The type of army doesn't matter. Obviously you would want more than just marines, or just zerglings, or just zealots. But, at bronze level, if you can make 50 marines in 10 minutes, you'll dominate every bronze player out there.


So technically by "just build stuff" you mean "don't just build stuff, but do everything that you should do in an RTS - mine, expand, and build an army of more than just marines"?

Ok then, I agree!


----------



## jellybeans69

What helps me improve is just having a plan before i game obviously at some point i need to adjust but still having some sort of plan focusing on injects , don't get supply blocked , have half decent creep spread, be on top of my upgrades etc. I pretty much don't scout at all or rarely and i'm doing alright in plat , currently #3 in my division. Too bad he's not playing Z i could give my recent experience of silver/gold. I've been playing for bit less than two months (played sc2 max 3-4 games before , and about few customs < 10 in bw ages ago that's all exp i had with sc2) and move from low silver to hi-plat in that time, plus it's matching me with last season diamonds rather often enough nowadays. I was doing 10p almost every game while in silver/gold vs toss/z just because it works at that level while if doesn't i wasn't that far behind in macro game as if i would fail it in higher level games.

Imo have a plan with what you want to do in certain situations and try to keep to it. About bronze as mentioned simply outmacroing even if it's just marines/zerglings + banelings/zealots+stalkers should be more than enough to get out given you practice it and do decently.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I've also won with nothing but marines, that doesn't get your out of bronze. You go "build stuff", and the chance to win is like 50/50 if you opponent is ~the same skill as you. *I believe you've all forgotten what the competition in bronze is like, or perhaps it wasn't like that back when you were still learning.*
> But I state it and I won't change my mind - currently "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what" won't get you out of bronze.


While I do agree with you that bronze is surely not what it used to be in season 1 as the whole play field improves over time , superior mechanics alone will get you all the way to diamond if not masters. It's not the only way to league up but it's a sure way to do so.

If you can non stop create workers and expand just before complete saturation at every base and keep your money low/ stop supply block you will breeze your way up the ladder.


----------



## UNCMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> So technically by "just build stuff" you mean "don't just build stuff, but do everything that you should do in an RTS - mine, expand, and build an army of more than just marines"?
> 
> Ok then, I agree!


Yeah... but really. If you've ever heard "Probes and Pylons" then you can take that to the bank. Constant worker production, not getting supply blocked, and using all your production facilities constantly is pretty much all you have to do. Everything NHS is saying is true.


----------



## hamzatm

Come off it, constant production is all you have to do? Whatever world you guys live in it isn't the same as ours..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> You have no idea what you're talking about. When we say "build stuff" we mean you need to completely ignore strategy, micro, unit composition, timings, everything except building workers, building supply, and spending your money as fast as you get it. Is there a battle? Don't look at it. Just keep building units.
> 
> This does 2 things: It will completely overwhelm any bronze player with the sheer quantity of stuff.
> It's a prerequisite for getting good enough that strategy actually matters.
> 
> If you want to see how little unit composition and strategy matters in bronze league, I'll beat a bronze league player of your choice with nothing but sentries after telling him im only making sentries.


And this is complete garbage. Just keep building stuff, sure, don't worry about composition, just send those 150 marines into an array of sieged up tanks and keep doing it and watch yourself win right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> If you want to see how little unit composition and strategy matters in bronze league, I'll beat a bronze league player of your choice with nothing but sentries after telling him im only making sentries.


And just saying, this kind of proves you seem to be one of the "arrogant high league players" aforementioned.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> If you want to see how little unit composition and strategy matters in bronze league, I'll beat a bronze league player of your choice with nothing but sentries after telling him im only making sentries.


LOL it's true. I watched Puckk beat a Diamond terran(tumescentpie) with nothing but sentries and it was the same deal. Was just a show of how important mechanics are.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Come off it, constant production is all you have to do? Whatever world you guys live in it isn't the same as ours..
> And this is complete garbage. Just keep building stuff, sure, don't worry about composition, just send those 150 marines into an array of sieged up tanks and keep doing it and watch yourself win right?
> And just saying, this kind of proves you seem to be one of the "arrogant high league players" aforementioned.


Obviously you are going to want to scout some and attack before they have a massive line of siege tanks/colossus/ultras but it definitely is possible. Have you not seen the Filter bronze to masters series where he only makes marines and pushes around the 10 minute mark with a 1a? It is true and it is possible.


----------



## Maian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Come off it, constant production is all you have to do? Whatever world you guys live in it isn't the same as ours..
> And this is complete garbage. Just keep building stuff, sure, don't worry about composition, just send those 150 marines into an array of sieged up tanks and keep doing it and watch yourself win right?
> And just saying, this kind of proves you seem to be one of the "arrogant high league players" aforementioned.


Dude, I spectated a bronze match two days ago and can confirm it doesn't matter one bit what kind of army you build, if your base mechanics are sound, you roll through no problem.

And to Ronnin, "just do what you usually do in an RTS." Is way easier said than done for bronze players. Which is why focusing on macro pay and ignoring micro is how you get past bronze, silver, and even gold.


----------



## ronnin426850

Guys, what I'm saying is you don't express yourselves correctly. If you said "forget micro and focus on macro" I would agree, but that's very far from "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what". Don't you see the difference?

You have to put a lot of thought in your game if you focus on macro. You don't have to put any thought if you "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what". Hamzatm is right, "just build stuff, doesn't even matter what" doesn't account for expanding, timing, scouting, ect, all of which you later confirmed is important in Bronze. So just more care in expressions and everyone will agree


----------



## Maian

Well even scouting doesn't matter in bronze (to the extent that it does in high-level play). Focus on your own mechanics. I say scouting doesn't matter because in bronze you don't know what you're looking for when you scout. If it's a 4-spot map, then scout so you know where your opponent is, but you there's no sense in scouting out his "plan" because if he's in bronze, there's a good chance he doesn't really have one (and you don't really know what you're looking for anyways).

I do agree that "just build stuff" doesn't work, if you're not applying game-sense to it. He should've said, "Just build an army, it doesn't matter what of." In that regard, it's true. Focus on getting AN army out. Doesn't matter what it is. If your army is consistently losing, it's not the fact that you don't have the right composition -- you're actually getting out-macro'd (unless you're trying Zealots vs. Mutalisks... then, yea, you need better composition). As long as your army can HIT the opponent's army, then superior macro mechanics will win out, guaranteed.

Learning a specific build is getting ahead of yourself. It'd be like me trying to learn to play the drums, and I start off by learning a specific song, but without learning how to actually play first. Yea, you know the song (build) but outside of that specific instance, you have no idea what you're doing.

Learning openings, yea, that's semi-important. There are standard openings for each matchup. If you can get each one down to muscle memory (practice against Very Easy AI), then you'll be out of bronze in no time as long as you use the money you get from the openings.

The best way to get out of lower leagues is Macro. Forget situational builds, and just macro. If you're in Bronze or Silver, you don't have macro skills necessary to properly execute specific builds anyway. You may think you do, but you don't. You're still actually learning, regardless of whether or not you've been playing since Day 1. If your macro mechanics were great, you wouldn't be in Bronze.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maian*
> 
> Well even scouting doesn't matter in bronze (to the extent that it does in high-level play). Focus on your own mechanics. I say scouting doesn't matter because in bronze you don't know what you're looking for when you scout. If it's a 4-spot map, then scout so you know where your opponent is, but you there's no sense in scouting out his "plan" because if he's in bronze, there's a good chance he doesn't really have one (and you don't really know what you're looking for anyways).


THis is right and wrong at the same time. The reason I say scout a bit is so you dont just 1a into choke infront of a wall of siege tanks.

Scouting is not just at the very beginning of the game with a worker. IMO it's always important to scout before an attack. You have to know what you are attacking into or you might just walk right into death.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> THis is right and wrong at the same time. The reason I say scout a bit is so you dont just 1a into choke infront of a wall of siege tanks.
> 
> Scouting is not just at the very beginning of the game with a worker. IMO it's always important to scout before an attack. You have to know what you are attacking into or you might just walk right into death.


Good scouting will usually win you the game. You just have to know what action to take and be able to do it efficiently.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maian*
> 
> Well even scouting doesn't matter in bronze (to the extent that it does in high-level play). Focus on your own mechanics. I say scouting doesn't matter because in bronze you don't know what you're looking for when you scout. If it's a 4-spot map, then scout so you know where your opponent is, but you there's no sense in scouting out his "plan" because if he's in bronze, there's a good chance he doesn't really have one (and you don't really know what you're looking for anyways).


People do have plans in Bronze. They usually have an army composition in mind and build up to it. If they see the opponent went something like mass siege tanks they often change their plan to counter it - obviously not immediately, efficiently and effectively, but they do it in their own way and it definitely makes a difference.

If you are specifically referring to scouting out something like your opponent took a really fast gas, and then knowing what that means in terms of the timing of their aggression or whatever, then yes a Bronze player wouldn't know the full extent of what he can do based on that info. But then the player he is playing against isn't at 100% efficiency with their builds so it doesn't even matter. Does that mean that scouting is useless? No it doesn't, Bronze players know what to expect at their own level based on their scouting. Or at least Silver's do.

Of course scouting is important! It just works on a completely different level to what higher game scouting means. It's like someone before mentioned, Bronze (and Silver etc) players have their own strategies counters techniques and everything, but its just different to the tight strats and predictive play you get in higher leagues.


----------



## DoomDash

The silver player at my job just figured out that people flying their buildings around on to tech labs or reactors weren't just doing it because they designed their base poorly. He was also using a Razer Naga with all the hotkeys on the mouse ( which is just odd ). I will take him under my wing though.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Come off it, constant production is all you have to do? Whatever world you guys live in it isn't the same as ours..
> And this is complete garbage. Just keep building stuff, sure, don't worry about composition, just send those 150 marines into an array of sieged up tanks and keep doing it and watch yourself win right?
> And just saying, this kind of proves you seem to be one of the "arrogant high league players" aforementioned.


You're not getting it. You can absolutely win against siege tanks with pure marines in bronze league. If you ONLY pay attention to correct macro, you'll have 100 marines by the time a bronze player has 2-3 siege tanks. The only thing this proves is that denying the validity of advice from "arrogant high league players" is a good way to STAY in bronze league.

It's not a question of whether 150 marines beats 10 siege tanks behind a walloff. If he does that, you will have so much time to do anything you want that it really doesn't matter what he makes. It's a question of learning to prioritize your attention. Focusing on macro will win more games faster than focusing on anything else, and it's training that is still relevant at higher skill levels, as opposed to designing a complicated response to an allin you'll only ever see in bronze league.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> You're not getting it. You can absolutely win against siege tanks with pure marines in bronze league. If you ONLY pay attention to correct macro, you'll have 100 marines by the time a bronze player has 2-3 siege tanks. The only thing this proves is that denying the validity of advice from "arrogant high league players" is a good way to STAY in bronze league.
> 
> It's not a question of whether 150 marines beats 10 siege tanks behind a walloff. If he does that, you will have so much time to do anything you want that it really doesn't matter what he makes. It's a question of learning to prioritize your attention. Focusing on macro will win more games faster than focusing on anything else, and it's training that is still relevant at higher skill levels, as opposed to designing a complicated response to an allin you'll only ever see in bronze league.


You're not getting it, allow me to explain:

"Focus on macro" sure, we are in agreement that's a great way to win bronze games.

"Just always keep producing and forget everything else" <-- arrogant advice that won't help you win anything.

See the difference?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He was also using a Razer Naga with all the hotkeys on the mouse ( which is just odd ).


Sounds legit, why wouldn't you want to use the naga keys for at least some stuff?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You're not getting it, allow me to explain:
> 
> "Focus on macro" sure, we are in agreement that's a great way to win bronze games.
> 
> "Just always keep producing and forget everything else" <-- arrogant advice that won't help you win anything.
> 
> See the difference?
> Sounds legit, why wouldn't you want to use the naga keys for at least some stuff?


Advice is actually not arrogant at all. Isolated training for one thing is much better than trying to do everything all together for newbie.


----------



## hamzatm

Yeah you're right, I apologize


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Yeah you're right, I apologize


It might be less fun , but it is in most cases more effective focusing on one thing at the time.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The silver player at my job just figured out that people flying their buildings around on to tech labs or reactors weren't just doing it because they designed their base poorly. He was also using a Razer Naga with all the hotkeys on the mouse ( which is just odd ). I will take him under my wing though.


I play with a girl who has cerebral palsy who uses only her mouse hand and a razer naga and she is surprisingly good at macro. Her micro is obviously kind of poor but she is in platinum league 1v1 so she's pretty good imo for a 1 hander.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You're not getting it, allow me to explain:
> 
> "Focus on macro" sure, we are in agreement that's a great way to win bronze games.
> 
> "Just always keep producing and forget everything else" <-- arrogant advice that won't help you win anything.
> 
> See the difference?
> Sounds legit, why wouldn't you want to use the naga keys for at least some stuff?


I think a key thing people are missing out in this advice is spending efficiently (not queue up multiple units). I would highly recommend watching Day 9 #252 Secrets of Hotkeys, APM and Mouse Movement.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I play with a girl who has cerebral palsy who uses only her mouse hand and a razer naga and she is surprisingly good at macro. Her micro is obviously kind of poor but she is in platinum league 1v1 so she's pretty good imo for a 1 hander.


Now this for sure makes everyone below Plat realize how much they actually suck


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Now this for sure makes everyone below Plat realize how much they actually suck


There is a master who plays with controller.
There are few people who play with no hands in diamond/master


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> There is a master who plays with controller.
> There are few people who play with no hands in diamond/master


How, with no hands?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> How, with no hands?


There was a guy recently who uses some kind of stick in his mouth for pressing key's n stuff, saw that not too long ago on team liquid.

Here's link to one of them he's in plat/diam
http://www.twitch.tv/kurirko402/old


----------



## DoomDash

I'm on fire! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches

So happy with mech. I feel just about as confident as I used to be in SCII now







. Still have plenty of things I can improve as well.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm on fire! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches
> 
> So happy with mech. I feel just about as confident as I used to be in SCII now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Still have plenty of things I can improve as well.


Nice!


----------



## riflepwnage

Just played a few games this season, think i did pretty good









http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/866092676063816593/B92E9CB569E2C86B9E067CABB3A9B15D55D997CB/2048x1152.resizedimage


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riflepwnage*
> 
> Just played a few games this season, think i did pretty good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/866092676063816593/B92E9CB569E2C86B9E067CABB3A9B15D55D997CB/2048x1152.resizedimage


Showing me up lol.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riflepwnage*
> 
> Just played a few games this season, think i did pretty good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/866092676063816593/B92E9CB569E2C86B9E067CABB3A9B15D55D997CB/2048x1152.resizedimage


\

Dang. What race you playing? You playing macro games?

Mine wasn't as deserving as you guys, but i did make it this high.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm guessing he is Zerg judging by his level 30.


----------



## Shadeh

On the state of the game interview David Kim mentions that it seems to be a bit difficult for a Terran to beat a Protoss. My guess is that he means so much more effort is needed. I hope this is really looked into cause i'm so sick of all these protoss matches where i can at least say for myself i've seriously out played him. I've done so much more and invested so much and yet i still lose, kinda getting sick of this.

@24:15 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfyolVb8tmo


----------



## DoomDash

TvP has always been like a pendulum. It seems like based on the time of the game the power is clearly in the other races court. If you make it to the end game I think TvP still has a clear Protoss advantage late game, but that was not any different than BW in reality. In BW there came a point where if Protoss got enough carriers Terran couldn't win, so the entire goal of Terran was to beat them before that point. I feel like in SCII it's a similar concept, except honestly a well played Terran can overcome any disadvantages by a more powerful unit comp with its high skill cap bio units. Is it harder at the end game stage of the game for Terran? Yes probably, however Terran's do have the tools to do it, where I think Protoss is actually much less limited in terms of tools. ( What I mean by this is if Terran is playing godly / perfect Terran will win regardless that they are not as good on paper )

Personally one of the reasons I go mech is because I struggled TvP late game. Basically every time I got to the late game in WoL I'd get crushed because I just didn't have the skill to over come the better unit comp and replaceablity of Protoss units. In TvP now, I don't feel scared in the late game, in fact its usually when I'm near maxed that I feel strongest in that MU. There comes a point where you reach a critical mass of tanks ect that basically any unit comp he has is almost irrelevant. Mech is more dependent on position, strategy, and scouting information. Bio play is more about picking someone apart and having really good micro and multitasking.

Well that's all my opinion anyway, but if you are struggling maybe try mech you might like it more.


----------



## Sugi

In HoTS, what's the name of the custom map that allows you and friend to build any unit super fast to test unit comps of any race? Also, what's the map's name for practicing macro against no opponent? Are there any with the current blizzard map pool?

On the topic of TvP, I feel a terran has to be proactive in being aggressive against Protoss. That's the biggest weakness of protoss, it's a giant slow death ball. So to be in a lot of locations at once is almost impossible. So drops, expos scouting, and scouting of the unit comp is a must for Terran. I feel this is very similar in ZvT, if the terran is aggressive enough, I feel there's very little I can do about it. I, as being a Zerg of course.


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey guys, can someone give me a list of CPUs and GPUs that can max SC2 on 1080p? Do Nvidia/Intel have strong advantage?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey guys, can someone give me a list of CPUs and GPUs that can max SC2 on 1080p? Do Nvidia/Intel have strong advantage?


Most newish gpu's should be able to max sc2 on 1080p. My old 4870 could run it on ultra @ 1200.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Most newish gpu's should be able to max sc2 on 1080p. My old 4870 could run it on ultra @ 1200.


So a 7750 could suffice?
The more serious choice is the CPU, I've heard. Can AMD pull its weight in SC2? I've only played it on mid-low end Intel so far.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> So a 7750 could suffice?
> The more serious choice is the CPU, I've heard. Can AMD pull its weight in SC2? I've only played it on mid-low end Intel so far.


As an AMD user, I'm sorry to say that just about any modern Intel i5/i7 will run SC2 better than, and i3 on par with, the best AMD CPU: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129


----------



## HometownHero

Whew, been out of the game awhile but starting to get back into it. Got bumped to 1v1 diamond the other day. Now to focus on masters.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Whew, been out of the game awhile but starting to get back into it. Got bumped to 1v1 diamond the other day. Now to focus on masters.


Bout time Boi!!


----------



## yks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Whew, been out of the game awhile but starting to get back into it. Got bumped to 1v1 diamond the other day. Now to focus on masters.


HELL YEAH! still remember those practice games we used to have.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> HELL YEAH! still remember those practice games we used to have.


Metalopolis!!


----------



## Kaiin2014

Banelings

I had a TvZ Match this morning and my opponent decimated me with banelings and speedlings. what is a good counter to bane/speed-lings in the early game? I didn't stand much of a chance because he was silver and i bronze.


----------



## Shadeh

To me banelings haven't been a problem since I learned to split. The total cost of one baneling is 75 minerals and 25 gas. So they basically cost double that of a marine. One marine is the equivalent of 50 minerals.

Now in theory ... One baneling explodes on one marine this means that 1 baneling lubing up one marine is an ineffective trade. This means that in order to counter baneling you have to make his trades inefficient. This is done by good splitting. Go to arcade mode in sc2 and type in marine split challenge. .


----------



## FrankoNL

When i play T ... and i have to go against a Z i get completely murdered by their bling play .... i just can't split good enough


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaiin2014*
> 
> Banelings
> 
> I had a TvZ Match this morning and my opponent decimated me with banelings and speedlings. what is a good counter to bane/speed-lings in the early game? I didn't stand much of a chance because he was silver and i bronze.


Make some tanks earlyish


----------



## Kaiin2014

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Make some tanks earlyish


normally i do, but this morning i was in a rush for an early win and pushed an mmm into the back of his main. i had the forces, next time i think i will do the same build, but drop my forces on his mineral lines, pick up and move to the next base, repeat. does OCN have a team or channel?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaiin2014*
> 
> normally i do, but this morning i was in a rush for an early win and pushed an mmm into the back of his main. i had the forces, next time i think i will do the same build, but drop my forces on his mineral lines, pick up and move to the next base, repeat. does OCN have a team or channel?


On NA definatelly , but in EU it always seem's to be empty , and why are all my TvZ's so damn stressfull , i don't even stress that much when i play against lolvoids. Have to be super reactive against terran. Bloody 42 minutes of cat n mouse , and it took twice as much resources to kill him well he gave up probably because he was pretty much mined out while i had some income left

Zerus prime is still my most successful map and i really like it. I often go 3 hatch before pool vs toss , quick third against terran , while i like to do nydus - hydra/roach vs other Z there


----------



## connectwise

Do you guys watch the GSL? I look at their videos from time to time. If you guys do, any idea what song is playing at 15:14 in this clip:

http://www.gomtv.net/2013gstls1/vod/80056/?set=1

I have the hbo version where I play for my teammates but not the techno version that they use


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Do you guys watch the GSL? I look at their videos from time to time. If you guys do, any idea what song is playing at 15:14 in this clip:
> 
> http://www.gomtv.net/2013gstls1/vod/80056/?set=1
> 
> I have the hbo version where I play for my teammates but not the techno version that they use


Your avatar weirds me out.


----------



## NewHighScore

I shamefully admit I have turned to the dark side. (League of Legends)

lol. Been playing mostly LoL the past few days since it's so stress free and easy low apm game. It's nice to not need to have over 200 apm for a change.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Your avatar weirds me out.


----------



## FrankoNL

haha funny movie


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I shamefully admit I have turned to the dark side. (League of Legends)
> 
> lol. Been playing mostly LoL the past few days since it's so stress free and easy low apm game. It's nice to not need to have over 200 apm for a change.


I always have 150-170+ apm when playing Dota2/Hon/Lol


----------



## FrankoNL

that's because you just spam the right mouse button!


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> that's because you just spam the right mouse button!


That's because i'm always on move







But yeah i spam rather a lot, though haven't played any of those games in month or two / no-time / due to sc2 also


----------



## Fatal05

Any diamond/masters players wanna practice sometime? I'm a low masters terran player on NA. creatineRAGE.106


----------



## FrankoNL

I just play LoL because it is not so much stress as SC2 is. I just get incredible ladder anxienty and get frustrated when i lose. With LoL ... not so much


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I just play LoL because it is not so much stress as SC2 is. I just get incredible ladder anxienty and get frustrated when i lose. With LoL ... not so much


HoN/LoL/Dota2 is more stressfull when you have to carry 4 other peepz instead of just one


----------



## FrankoNL

Then i just yell noobs! and ignore them all


----------



## FrankoNL

Question of a different nature:

i am having texture corruption issues in SC2. Sometimes when i look at my field of view there is some texture corruption on the edge of the fog of war.

Next to this: Every time i start the game for the first time and i play for a while, it freezes for a couple of seconds, crashes to the desktop and then returns to the game as if nothing had happened. This only happens once. After this freeze i can play for hours without any problems.

Does anybody know what this is?


----------



## hamzatm

Guys what's your opinion on if its worth upgrading to HoTS from WoL? I'm not interested in the campaign, just good ol' SC2 ladder.


----------



## FrankoNL

Then it is pretty much a must


----------



## jellybeans69

+++++ and i've heard end of WoL was pretty stale anyway , apart from minor annoyances balance is rather good now.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Then it is pretty much a must


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I always have 150-170+ apm when playing Dota2/Hon/Lol


How do you know? Do those games measure your APM?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> This.
> How do you know? Do those games measure your APM?


HoN does , and all my account's i used to play ( don't really play HoN anymore) have 150+ average apm. Depending on hero can be 200+ times.

To see how much i click check this rather old video of mine (tho watch on at least 720p







)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDz7TdCZmg


----------



## NewHighScore

Anyone else watching the OCN $2500 challenge?


----------



## jellybeans69

Any stream links for it?
Also been quite a decent day, there was a 7x lose streak in a row before this pretty awesome win streak


----------



## NewHighScore

It's being streamed on the main page. Otherwise can watch at

http://www.twitch.tv/overclocktv


----------



## poroboszcz

That's pretty awesome. The casting is surprisingly good.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> That's pretty awesome. The casting is surprisingly good.


Indeed


----------



## NewHighScore

Wahooo! I won $25 in the stream viewer giveaway!


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Wahooo! I won $25 in the stream viewer giveaway!


lol gratz







ahahah i got the 10$ too!


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> HoN does , and all my account's i used to play ( don't really play HoN anymore) have 150+ average apm. Depending on hero can be 200+ times.
> 
> To see how much i click check this rather old video of mine (tho watch on at least 720p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDz7TdCZmg


It hurt to watch! Must have been a real while back, bladefury then actually attack-clicking on Venge... and I noticed you use hotkeys to move the screen. Is that efficient? Do you still do that in Dota? Does that mean you use legacy keys or does your hand jump across the keyboard? I click pretty much the same when running for my life in Dota. As if clicking more will help me get away









Ahem, back to SC2..


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> It hurt to watch! Must have been a real while back, bladefury then actually attack-clicking on Venge... and I noticed you use hotkeys to move the screen. Is that efficient? Do you still do that in Dota? Does that mean you use legacy keys or does your hand jump across the keyboard? I click pretty much the same when running for my life in Dota. As if clicking more will help me get away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahem, back to SC2..


I use arrow keys to move camera , 1-2-3-e-f-4 for spells , tab-5-q-x-c for 5 item slots. And my right hand jumps from arrow keys to spell hotkeys. I do move camera with them with them (when i need to move short distance) in all ARTS/Moba games. It is efficient for me and i know one pro player who does it very similar to me(i've played mobas/arts since hon beta @ 09 august) and always used this method to move map short distances/for bigger ones - minimap. And yeah that bladefury was unfortunate but at least it was a nice disjoint with bladedance from venges stun.

Now back to SC2 , OCN divsion looking good, rooting for Sora in finals


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Bout time Boi!!


I know, long time coming. I saw you got bumped to masters recently, congrats.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yks*
> 
> HELL YEAH! still remember those practice games we used to have.


Lol, those games were always pretty epic. I miss metalopolis even if it was a tad bit unbalanced.


----------



## DoomDash

Been slacking gotta spend that bonus pool.


----------



## jellybeans69

That widow mine hit @ WCS Steph vs Forgg was sick!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_126Pf3ZP98


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> That widow mine hit @ WCS Steph vs Forgg was sick!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_126Pf3ZP98


OMG as a terran that was painful to watch! I loved the face reactions.

Regardless I am happy for stephano and would love to see a foreigner win as much as I love MVP and my terran brothaz.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

See I don't play competitively, because I don't kill little kids


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> See I don't play competitively, because I don't kill little kids


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


THis.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Been slacking gotta spend that bonus pool.


I totally agree. I will. I have started some cert classes and have been to tired. So i must admit i been diablo threeing it up.









Reading you guy's posts always gets me amp'd up to play though.

As for that terran that asked for practice I would be game. Im to lazy to quote. lol

Also, the explanation as to why you cant land your buildings on my lings terran! hahahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-FDqIm3HDI


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I use arrow keys to move camera , 1-2-3-e-f-4 for spells , tab-5-q-x-c for 5 item slots. And my right hand jumps from arrow keys to spell hotkeys. I do move camera with them with them (when i need to move short distance) in all ARTS/Moba games. It is efficient for me and i know one pro player who does it very similar to me(i've played mobas/arts since hon beta @ 09 august) and always used this method to move map short distances/for bigger ones - minimap. And yeah that bladefury was unfortunate but at least it was a nice disjoint with bladedance from venges stun.
> 
> Now back to SC2 , OCN divsion looking good, rooting for Sora in finals


Thanks







.

You're saying you play this game w/o a mouse? That's an interesting take on the game. I've never seen anyone play that way


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> You're saying you play this game w/o a mouse? That's an interesting take on the game. I've never seen anyone play that way


I still use mouse to move a hero , auto-attack,move bigger distances through clicking a minimap only thing i do different from anyone else is short distance camera moving with arrow keys.


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I still use mouse to move a hero , auto-attack,move bigger distances through clicking a minimap only thing i do different from anyone else is short distance camera moving with arrow keys.


Have you try mouse drag? Hold down the middle mouse button. It'd pro'bly work better than arrow keys


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Have you try mouse drag? Hold down the middle mouse button. It'd pro'bly work better than arrow keys


It would not because by doing that you can't move (right-click to move) hero and move the camera at same time.
Also as I see Sora I currently viewing thread - congrats on taking #1 in OCN Div!


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> It would not because by doing that you can't move (right-click to move) hero and move the camera at same time.
> Also as I see Sora I currently viewing thread - congrats on taking #1 in OCN Div!


Oh I see what you mean. Maybe turn up your scroll speed? How would you a move the army while using the arrow key?

And thanks. It was a fun tourney


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Oh I see what you mean. Maybe turn up your scroll speed? How would you a move the army while using the arrow key?
> 
> And thanks. It was a fun tourney


It was answer to guy who was asking how do I do it with Dota/HoN/LoL , in Sc2 that's not that much of an issue though. Also my hands are pretty fast to jump across the keyboard whenever needed.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Oh I see what you mean. Maybe turn up your scroll speed? How would you a move the army while using the arrow key?
> 
> And thanks. It was a fun tourney


Congrats Sora! Watching you and the others play was as much fun as watching any Pro.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> You're saying you play this game w/o a mouse? That's an interesting take on the game. I've never seen anyone play that way


I want to play you. Did you beat my boy Flatline?


----------



## jellybeans69

Y terran u go greedy cc first on highground?


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> Congrats Sora! Watching you and the others play was as much fun as watching any Pro.


Thanks. The casting was good that's probably what made it fun
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I want to play you. Did you beat my boy Flatline?


Yes I did. Did you not play in the OCN Division?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> Thanks. The casting was good that's probably what made it fun
> Yes I did. Did you not play in the OCN Division?


No I signed up but I didn't like how it was ran and it was too overwhelming for my schedule so I just didn't play.


----------



## AlexNJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Y terran u go greedy cc first on highground?


Why the hell didn't he have something out by 6 minutes :|


----------



## Mr357

Is there any chance we could have a tournament for lower league players? A prize pool is unnecessary as it would just be for fun, but it would still be serious, unlike Bronze League Heroes.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> Is there any chance we could have a tournament for lower league players? A prize pool is unnecessary as it would just be for fun, but it would still be serious, unlike Bronze League Heroes.


Sure, but we don't have too many lower league players though so it would probably be best to do something like Bronze + Silver, Gold + Plat (and if above don't want to feel left out







Diamond + Low Master, High Master + GM or something like that). I could start to plan something unofficial this weekend but i'd personally probably choose to go a slower/longer/more casual unofficial tournament than the fast pace of the official ones, since I think the pressure of playing so many matches in such a short time got to some (especially the Masters+ who were also participating in the World Championship Series).

Let me know what you guys think/would like...


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> since I think the pressure of playing so many matches in such a short time got to some (especially the Masters+ who were also participating in the World Championship Series).
> 
> Let me know what you guys think/would like...


Yeah it was pretty tough to play so many matches in a short period of time, especially when we were notified just a little over 24 hours before the schedule time. On the other hand, giving too much time makes it hard for people to keep track and be motivated to play. I hope people come hang out in the OCN group channel more often; it's easiest to meet/play/organize anything there


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlexNJ*
> 
> Why the hell didn't he have something out by 6 minutes :|


He didn't have vision of his low-ground , i obviously did a lot of mistakes this game too (being supply blocked long , losing queen stuipidly etc. Anyway we both kind of played that game terribly.

He didn't have vision of that proxy hatch by 5:30 minutes when it finished and crawlers were half finished, his only mistake was going for mines instead of tanks then he might have had a chance.


----------



## AlexNJ

Sorry, I just usually dont see weird plays like that in gold, good move though taking the proxy hatch in his natural


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Y terran u go greedy cc first on highground?


That's weird, my experience with playing this map against platinum opponents on ladder was that everyone went for 1 base rushes and proxies. This just seems like a terrible map against those kinds of plays as zerg. Then again I know my biggest problem right now is my scouting. Regardless, this took first place as my veto.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> That's weird, my experience with playing this map against platinum opponents on ladder was that everyone went for 1 base rushes and proxies. This just seems like a terrible map against those kinds of plays as zerg. Then again I know my biggest problem right now is my scouting. Regardless, this took first place as my veto.


Well he didn't anything particularly wrong he did scout 15 hatch on my nat , i just dropped pool and sent scouting drone + 2 extra drones for spines probably the reason he was not expecting it, the biggest mistake was not getting a tank but widow mines. And yes this is one of my worst maps , due to it being so easy to proxy as toss (drop pylon at top of rocks near nat happens so bloody often f.e)


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Well he didn't anything particularly wrong he did scout 15 hatch on my nat , i just dropped pool and sent scouting drone + 2 extra drones for spines probably the reason he was not expecting it, the biggest mistake was not getting a tank but widow mines. And yes this is one of my worst maps , due to it being so easy to proxy as toss (drop pylon at top of rocks near nat happens so bloody often f.e)


I mean that I've literally not played one game against a player that actually attempted any kind of macro, like your terran opponent. Either they try to cheese and immediately block the bridge against counterattacks on failure, or they block with first building and hunt for overlords to deny scouting. I actually like the proxy hatch at opponents natural on this map very much, as it can be used effectively against all the aforementioned plays.

I've also never gotten a ZvZ on this map, which leads me to think that most zergs have it vetoed.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I mean that I've literally not played one game against a player that actually attempted any kind of macro, like your terran opponent. Either they try to cheese and immediately block the bridge against counterattacks on failure, or they block with first building and hunt for overlords to deny scouting. I actually like the proxy hatch at opponents natural on this map very much, as it can be used effectively against all the aforementioned plays.
> 
> I've also never gotten a ZvZ on this map, which leads me to think that most zergs have it vetoed.


I have gotten quite a few ZvZ's in this map, and i rarely see cheeses except for some sneaky pylon or canonrush


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I have gotten quite a few ZvZ's in this map, and i rarely see cheeses except for some sneaky pylon or canonrush


Same here. I believe it is league dependent.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Same here. I believe it is league dependent.


I don't know, jellybeans69 has said he's platinum (EU server?) and I'm platinum on NA server. My opponents are typically platinum and occasionally gold/diamond.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> I don't know, jellybeans69 has said he's platinum (EU server?) and I'm platinum on NA server. My opponents are typically platinum and occasionally gold/diamond.


Indeed i am Plat , i mostly play against plats only (sometimes last seasons diamonds) and once a master.
Chance to get that map and ZvZ is aprox 1/18 so unless you play alot or "get lucky" with getting this map and enemy a Zerg the chance is rather low.


----------



## Anti!!

Maybe it has changed in the last two weeks then but I play masters and high mmr plats on eu and never get cheesed. Diversity is a good thing.


----------



## HometownHero

Cheesing was so prevalent earlier on in SC2, I just think people have gotten use to holding it off. Every once in awhile I will still 11/11 though and it works pretty well.


----------



## jellybeans69

On a side note , while i get cheesed often enough I've never experience proxy gates from toss.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> On a side note , while i get cheesed often enough I've never experience proxy gates from toss.


haha I was playing my friends gold account last night and I opened CC first and got proxy 2 gated IN my base and actually held it off no problem. Of course the guy followed up dt's which I was 90% sure he would do. I just expanded 6 bases and did mass ravens for fun







.

So strange that you guys never get cheesed cuz when I was in diamond I was constantly getting all in'd and cheesed.


----------



## hamzatm

I find cheese and all-ins fun to deal with.

It's the macro wars that eat at your soul..


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> I find cheese and all-ins fun to deal with.
> 
> It's the macro wars that eat at your soul..


Macro against terran eats my soul (actually playing against terran in general does that). I gladly play macro games against toss even though he rarely get's more than 3 bases up against me.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> haha I was playing my friends gold account last night and I opened CC first and got proxy 2 gated IN my base and actually held it off no problem. Of course the guy followed up dt's which I was 90% sure he would do. I just expanded 6 bases and did mass ravens for fun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So strange that you guys never get cheesed cuz when I was in diamond I was constantly getting all in'd and cheesed.


I guess im not seeing it much because im facing mid master on EU.


----------



## doomlord52

So I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a good arcade mode/game.
I've got a group of 4 friends (so 4 + me = 5 players), and we're looking for some sort of base-building survival game, preferably Terran vs. Zerg. We found one, but it made one of us the Zerg player, despite the lobby putting us all on one team.

Any suggestions?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> So I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a good arcade mode/game.
> I've got a group of 4 friends (so 4 + me = 5 players), and we're looking for some sort of base-building survival game, preferably Terran vs. Zerg. We found one, but it made one of us the Zerg player, despite the lobby putting us all on one team.
> 
> Any suggestions?


It won't make you a better SC2 player, but I like Squadron TD in the arcade.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> It won't make you a better SC2 player, but I like Squadron TD in the arcade.


We tried that, and honestly couldn't figure it out. I'll give it another shot, though.

It's not supposed to make us better players. It's just something fun to do at 2am.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> We tried that, and honestly couldn't figure it out. I'll give it another shot, though.
> 
> It's not supposed to make us better players. It's just something fun to do at 2am.


It took me a few games to figure out but is pretty simple afterwards. Minerals are spent on building defensive units and econ (workers trained at CC/hatchery/nexus), while workers mine gas to be used for sends (units trained from other buildings). You get income (minerals) for killing waves and sending units. Your goal is to have sufficient defense against waves and sends from the other team, while increasing econ to send more units to them.

I suggest you start out by looking at some of the build orders here: http://squadtd.com/threads/2-xx-sp33ds-guide-to-good-builds.1538/


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> It took me a few games to figure out but is pretty simple afterwards. Minerals are spent on building defensive units and econ (workers trained at CC/hatchery/nexus), while workers mine gas to be used for sends (units trained from other buildings). You get income (minerals) for killing waves and sending units. Your goal is to have sufficient defense against waves and sends from the other team, while increasing econ to send more units to them.
> 
> I suggest you start out by looking at some of the build orders here: http://squadtd.com/threads/2-xx-sp33ds-guide-to-good-builds.1538/


Sounds like Tanks , 3-way defensive games from WC3 tbh shouldn't bet all that different/hard to do.


----------



## Jim888

hey Been playing WOL since the beta, just casually does anyone have a lead on an inexpensive HOTS expansion? I'd really like it but only have about $20 to spend :-/

(I'm in the US and looking to 100% legal)


----------



## hamzatm

£20 from cd key sites in the UK. They are fully legal afaik, you can probably find similar in the US but I highly doubt you'll get it for $20.

I'm looking for a cheaper price too actually


----------



## DoomDash

I just got my company to host a LAN for our employees, which means some Starcraft II action going on.


----------



## fodtv

DoomDash, that's awesome. Will all employees be required to bring their own accounts? Or will your company provide some accounts and then provide them as prizes later on? That would be pretty awesome!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Macro against terran eats my soul (actually playing against terran in general does that). I gladly play macro games against toss even though he rarely get's more than 3 bases up against me.


For myself, I love the long macro games. This betters my skill and allows me to play against a huge range situations. However losing a close nail biting game that was just exchange after exchange, leaves me a little dead inside, because I felt like if I just had a bit more workers, better scouting, or better counters I could have taken that game.

Quick question. Has the game change for ZvP from 14 pool into 15 hatch against Protoss? I have noticed a lot more Nexus first builds from Protoss, which is never a good idea against 14 pool.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fodtv*
> 
> DoomDash, that's awesome. Will all employees be required to bring their own accounts? Or will your company provide some accounts and then provide them as prizes later on? That would be pretty awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For myself, I love the long macro games. This betters my skill and allows me to play against a huge range situations. However losing a close nail biting game that was just exchange after exchange, leaves me a little dead inside, because I felt like if I just had a bit more workers, better scouting, or better counters I could have taken that game.
> 
> Quick question. Has the game change for ZvP from 14 pool into 15 hatch against Protoss? I have noticed a lot more Nexus first builds from Protoss, which is never a good idea against 14 pool.


At plat I rarely get canon-rushed and I tend to do 3hatch before pool at times especially on Zerus Prime. I rarely open with pool first against toss. Also since DH 1-gate openers are much more common than FFE/nexus first.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just got my company to host a LAN for our employees, which means some Starcraft II action going on.


Sounds cool. What company is it and how did you get them to do it? Do they have many employees playing sc2?

Also,
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130601T1510&p0=235&msg=+2013+WCS+KR+Season+1++Code+S%2C+Final

So hyped! I predict Innovation 4 - 1 Soulkey. I can see Soulkey taking a game or two from Innovation with some clever all-in, but over all Innovation just looks well too solid.


----------



## fodtv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> At plat I rarely get canon-rushed and I tend to do 3hatch before pool at times especially on Zerus Prime. I rarely open with pool first against toss. Also since DH 1-gate openers are much more common than FFE/nexus first.


I still get cannon rushed at my second or my third in ZvP Diamond. I heard Masters is a lot of 1 Gate/Core into Expo into heavy Gateway pressure. I had a Protoss take a game off me last night with that same build even after doing loads of economy damage to him. I felt taking a third was a bad move, because he hit me when I was still drone during the harassment. Also Warm Prisms are becoming quite famous lately, I feel like this is Naniwa's fault. XD


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fodtv*
> 
> I still get cannon rushed at my second or my third in ZvP Diamond. I heard Masters is a lot of 1 Gate/Core into Expo into heavy Gateway pressure. I had a Protoss take a game off me last night with that same build even after doing loads of economy damage to him. I felt taking a third was a bad move, because he hit me when I was still drone during the harassment. Also Warm Prisms are becoming quite famous lately, I feel like this is Naniwa's fault. XD


This is my experience as well in platinum. I see protoss use any chance they get to cannon the natural or third with FFE openings but have also seen more of gateway first into heavy early pressure.


----------



## fodtv

Talking about early pressure, I am enjoying the new patch with ZvZ. I am not a big fan of Mutalisk, because I miss the days of StarCraft 1's Mutalisks. Though I think I understand the current ZvZ matchup pretty well. I believe straight up Roach vs X is quite good again like the days of Wings of Liberty. Specially considering Mass Zergling into Roaches and/or few Mutalisks into Roaches is a good tech switch. However this needs to be done with heavy aggression. What are other's thoughts on ZvZ right now?


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fodtv*
> 
> Talking about early pressure, I am enjoying the new patch with ZvZ. I am not a big fan of Mutalisk, because I miss the days of StarCraft 1's Mutalisks. Though I think I understand the current ZvZ matchup pretty well. I believe straight up Roach vs X is quite good again like the days of Wings of Liberty. Specially considering Mass Zergling into Roaches and/or few Mutalisks into Roaches is a good tech switch. However this needs to be done with heavy aggression. What are other's thoughts on ZvZ right now?


Muta's just aren't the same in ZvZ now that Spore Crawlers do extra damage to bio.


----------



## Nethermir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Sounds cool. What company is it and how did you get them to do it? Do they have many employees playing sc2?
> 
> Also,
> http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130601T1510&p0=235&msg=+2013+WCS+KR+Season+1++Code+S%2C+Final
> 
> So hyped! I predict Innovation 4 - 1 Soulkey. I can see Soulkey taking a game or two from Innovation with some clever all-in, but over all Innovation just looks well too solid.


I think Innovation will also take the series but I hope Soulkey will surprise everyone. Flash said in an interview that he was helping Soulkey so I hope that will help him deal with Innovation.

Taken from reddit : "Fun fact before the GSL finals: In order for Innovation to lose he would have to lose more games vs zerg in one night than he has overall in competitive play in HotS. Current record vs zerg: 21-3" http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1ffafg/fun_fact_before_the_gsl_finals_in_order_for/


----------



## poroboszcz

Well it's 7 am here (the finals). going out now to just to come back to watch it (hopefullly). Anyway it seem blizzard s doing a really good job. This includes all major tournaments since hots release:


----------



## connectwise

GSL FINALS!!

That terran player in the finals innovation is hella good.


----------



## sora1607

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> GSL FINALS!!
> 
> That terran player in the finals innovation is hella good.


He choked after losing the 6th game. It's unfortunate we couldn't see him play his best in the last 2 games


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sora1607*
> 
> He choked after losing the 6th game. It's unfortunate we couldn't see him play his best in the last 2 games


Who was that? I'm not following currently..


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Who was that? I'm not following currently..


Innovation vs Soulkey GSL finals, Inno was up 21-3 in TvZ if I remember correctly before finals. Either way glad soulkey won. Even though out of all the games only last one could be really called a macro game. So sad that Zerg's rarely win a macro against Terran, all about all-ins , roach bane busts etc.


----------



## NewHighScore

I'm itchin for some sc2 so bad. I broke my computer down and sold my old case and custom loop. It'll be a couple days at least till I finish re cabling the new pc, possibly more.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I'm itchin for some sc2 so bad. I broke my computer down and sold my old case and custom loop. It'll be a couple days at least till I finish re cabling the new pc, possibly more.


I'm in the same situation, mate, waiting for a 7770 to arrive so I can play


----------



## DoomDash

I've been sooo lazy still. I need to spend all my bonus pool dammit. Is it true the season is already almost over??!?!? They are 1 month now!?


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I've been sooo lazy still. I need to spend all my bonus pool dammit. Is it true the season is already almost over??!?!? They are 1 month now!?


WHUUUUUT? seasons are only 1 month now? Madness.


----------



## DoomDash

I could be wrong, I heard that...


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I could be wrong, I heard that...


How long is a ladder season?
Answer: The 2013 ladder seasons have been aligned with the World Championship Series. The start dates for each season are:
2013 Season 3 - June 10
2013 Season 4 - August 26
2013 Season 5 - November 11


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> How long is a ladder season?
> Answer: The 2013 ladder seasons have been aligned with the World Championship Series. The start dates for each season are:
> 2013 Season 3 - June 10
> 2013 Season 4 - August 26
> 2013 Season 5 - November 11


gasp!!!!!!!!!

I gotta spend dat pool. I thought it was still june 30th.


----------



## fodtv

I agree, I thought I had more time too! I have collected a small amount of bonus pool. :S I will be spending all of it tonight during my stream. Link is in the signature. How is everyone doing in the current season?

For myself, I am where I need to be. About half of my games are wins. What's the hardest matchup for everyone? I think ZvZ will be mine soon enough. I am a bit too aggressive trying to stop the other player from being aggressive. It works against me in the end. XD


----------



## DoomDash

Great news!! Spawn version is back !

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10145834


----------



## Katana

Wow, that's interesting! I hadn't even heard about their changes to the trial (now Starter Edition). I might try to get my brother to try this out. I think he still remembers a little of StarCraft 1.


----------



## ronnin426850

That's great!


----------



## NewHighScore

I'm really curious to see how SC2 will perform on the new Richland APU's..... so curious I just might have to purchase one with a A85 motherboard.


----------



## poroboszcz

So any predictions for WCS global finals?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> So any predictions for WCS global finals?


Innovation vs Soulkey rematch in finals?








Rooting for dimaga though


----------



## HometownHero

Group A - Soulkey and Alive make it out. Soulkey is sick, and Alive just has to practice for one mu.
Group B - Alicia and MVP make it out. Alicia looks pretty good recently and MVP is MVP.
Group C - Hero and sOs make it out. Hero looked sick in WCS EU and sOs is supposed to be pretty tricky. ForGG is too gimmicky.
Group D - Innovation and RorO.


----------



## poroboszcz

My predictions:
Group A - Soulkey and Stephano, because aLive is not that good in TvZ and Stephano is the only foreigner that can make it.
Group B - Mvp and KangHo, although I think this group is hardest to predict.
Group C - Symbol and sOs, because I'm not a big fan of HerO and ForGG didn't get any TvTs.
Group D - Innovation and Roro. As much I'd like Dimaga to advance I don't think he stands a chance.

I'd really like to see Mvp in the finals against Soulkey, Innovation or sOs. I believe he can make it.


----------



## Nethermir

Group A: Soulkey and a good form Stephano. Otherwise, Alive.
Group B: MVP and Ryung.
Group C: Hero and sOs.
Group D: Innovation and Roro.

For the finals, I would also like to see MVP. MVP vs. Innovation, MVP vs. Soulkey or rematch of Soulkey vs. Innovation. I'd like to insert Hero somewhere but I think he won't make it.


----------



## DoomDash

Ok, 400 bonus pool in 4 days! I can do it!


----------



## ronnin426850

Noob chimes in: What is bonus pool? I've been wondering for a long time..


----------



## HometownHero

Bonus points are extra points you accumulate over the course of a season that will be added to the amount of points you receive after you win a ladder game. They essentially help you move up the ladder quicker, so its best to spend them before the season ends.


----------



## jellybeans69

Meh bonus pool is kind of useless except for Master/GM isn't it?


----------



## hamzatm

How so?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> How so?


Cause your place in league / points do not matter in leagues below master. Promotions are only mmr based anyway.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Cause your place in league / points do not matter in leagues below master. Promotions are only mmr based anyway.


and what is mmr?


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> and what is mmr?


Basically a hidden elo rating which you gain/lose from wins/loses.


----------



## 13321G4

Match making rating.

Basically when blizzards looks for an opponent it doesn't give a rat's arse what league you are in, but rather what your mmr is. Mmr is hidden and no-one knows how it is calculated exactly. All we know is that a win raises it and a loss lowers it.

It's also trivial to worry about.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Mmr is hidden and no-one knows how it is calculated exactly.
> It's also trivial to worry about.


While true, SC2gears MMR plugin is rather accurate at predicting your promotions. I would even say it's not that hard to find out how mmr works rather than find out where are the cut-off points or exact system frequency you have to beat a tier higher players in order to get promoted.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Cause your place in league / points do not matter in leagues below master. Promotions are only mmr based anyway.


Ahh that's good to hear. That's pretty awesome actually!

The bonus pool helps people overcome ladder anxiety and other issues though, and gives a better feeling of progress however much it is an illusion. I think it's far from "useless"!


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Ahh that's good to hear. That's pretty awesome actually!
> 
> The bonus pool helps people overcome ladder anxiety and other issues though, and gives a better feeling of progress however much it is an illusion. I think it's far from "useless"!


You can't be demoted during seasons now only during first season placement match now. Imo a much better way to overcome such tendencies


----------



## hamzatm

The fact that you can't get demoted till the end of the season is all well and good but it's more the emotional effect of you seeing your ladder rank drop as you lose points. Being super low rank in your league is pretty demotivating!


----------



## FrankoNL

So that means i am screwed next season


----------



## ntherblast

I wasn't able to watch the free live stream of the WCS final matches. Seems that you have to pay to watch the VODS.... Is there no way I can watch these for free?


----------



## fodtv

nther,
You can watch it on youtube. If you know the name of the players, it's quite easy find. I will have to watch them myself when I get home today, because I was busy yesterday. :S How awesome were the matches yesterday?

When does this season ends? I know it is very soon. I want to burn through my bonus pool and steal other's points in the process.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Great news!! Spawn version is back ! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10145834


Thanks for letting us know this! I have a couple of buddies that wouldn't pay for the game. Maybe I can change their minds.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I wasn't able to watch the free live stream of the WCS final matches. Seems that you have to pay to watch the VODS.... Is there no way I can watch these for free?


http://www.boxflock.com/card/570

Groups A and D kind of one-sided, groups B and C definitely worth watching, especially Mvp and ForGG games.


----------



## twerk

Did anyone just see the DeMusliM vs IdrA game about an hour ago? They both streamed it.

Really nice game and IdrA got maddd as always, whether he wins or loses he still finds something to complain about


----------



## fodtv

Andy, who took the match? I wish I saw it. I bet it was pretty good. :S


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fodtv*
> 
> Andy, who took the match? I wish I saw it. I bet it was pretty good. :S


Here's the VOD.
http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/413854461

The IdrA game is at 2:09:00. He goes through the replay and analyses it at about 2:54:00.

IdrA got properly mad and BM'd in chat and on his stream.


Spoiler: Winner: Spoiler!



DeMusliM won.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> http://www.boxflock.com/card/570
> 
> Groups A and D kind of one-sided, groups B and C definitely worth watching, especially Mvp and ForGG games.


Thanks for the link time to watch them now. Shame that all of them aren't uploaded yet;/


----------



## KevinV

WCS vod is free now well in 480p at least on twitch


----------



## poroboszcz

I so want Mvp vs sOs finals.


----------



## Erio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I so want Mvp vs sOs finals.


Mvp Is up against INnoVation. I don't think it is going to happen.


----------



## poroboszcz

It's Mvp man, never count him out. He just went 3-1 against one of the best TvT'ers in the world.


----------



## General123

WOW is anyone watching MVP vs Inovation? AMAZING GAMES!


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Here's the VOD.
> http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/413854461
> 
> The IdrA game is at 2:09:00. He goes through the replay and analyses it at about 2:54:00.
> 
> IdrA got properly mad and BM'd in chat and on his stream.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Winner: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> DeMusliM won.


Man. I love IdrA. But he reaaally needs to work on his attitude again.. It was good for like 3 days after he was released.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> Man. I love IdrA. But he reaaally needs to work on his attitude again.. It was good for like 3 days after he was released.


I used to think he just did it to get attention, which it did. Now I see that he's just sour and really just an unpleasant person, to the point where he got kicked off EG because of it.

He's no way near as good as he used to be either, I've been watching his stream a lot recently and he just loses game after game. It's probably due to his emotional state, if someone all-ins, or even beats him, he gets so flustered which impacts the next game.

People were saying in the chat of DeMusliM's stream that he's getting psychological help but I don't know if that's true or not.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Meh bonus pool is kind of useless except for Master/GM isn't it?


its useless in general. its designed to make players who quit or dont play often to be "below" those that dont.

also anything thats not masters top 8 basically is pointless as you say


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> WOW is anyone watching MVP vs Inovation? AMAZING GAMES!


Best series I've watched in Hots so far. Should've been the finals.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> I used to think he just did it to get attention, which it did. Now I see that he's just sour and really just an unpleasant person, to the point where he got kicked off EG because of it.
> 
> He's no way near as good as he used to be either, I've been watching his stream a lot recently and he just loses game after game. It's probably due to his emotional state, if someone all-ins, or even beats him, he gets so flustered which impacts the next game.
> 
> People were saying in the chat of DeMusliM's stream that *he's getting psychological help but I don't know if that's true or not.*


Not sure if this is what they were speaking of but...... in a past interview with IdrA he stated that EG hired a sport psychologist for him. He seen the lady once and never bothered to go back because in his eyes she was a fool. In this case he may have been correct because she did no homework and was amazed/amused at the fact he was able to make money from playing video games and had no clue that it was a real thing to be a pro gamer. Basically he felt it was a joke and not even worth going back. I can't remember if it was the first or second or both "real talk with jp" interview.

He probably could benefit from seeing a general psychologist though.







just my opinion.


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> its useless in general. its designed to make players who quit or dont play often to be "below" those that dont.
> 
> also anything thats not masters top 8 basically is pointless as you say


Place within your masters league doesn't really mater either. It's all about points/mmr
As for IdrA his casting is awesome and it's fun to hear "he's bad" , he's terrible at times


----------



## poroboszcz

Anyone else noticed significant increase in hellbat drops in all matchups? I think I've been hellbat dropped by every single Terran I played on ladder today.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Anyone else noticed significant increase in hellbat drops in all matchups? I think I've been hellbat dropped by every single Terran I played on ladder today.


Funny you should mention that: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9280218214?page=1

Quote:


> We're looking into it.
> 
> Obviously we'd like to see how they turn out in the coming weeks, but initially we're thinking:
> 
> 1. Too easy to execute
> 2. Especially in TvT, not a lot of risk to doing them (when you don't lose the Medivac)
> 3. Might be too early before defenses can be ready
> 
> Rather than jumping to conclusions right now, we'll keep a close eye on it and if in fact Hellbat drops do turn out too strong, we'll do something like rolling in some of their damage with the Infernal Pre igniter upgrade.


----------



## Yukss

this is so messup.. i was top 4 diamond yesterday in 1v1, no bonus pool and 105/95 win loss and today i won the placement match and guess what... i got platinum.. so wth...


----------



## Maian

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9280238112

On the plus-side, since HotS came out, apparently you cannot be demoted mid-season.


----------



## NewHighScore

lapengu stream snipe tumescentpie or did you just randomly hit him on ladder? Watching him play a lapengu right now.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> this is so messup.. i was top 4 diamond yesterday in 1v1, no bonus pool and 105/95 win loss and today i won the placement match and guess what... i got platinum.. so wth...


haha, I was 1v1 diamond, huge bonus pool, about 50/50 win/loss I think won my placement match and got gold









So much working up to do!

Also the perfect environment to work with heavy phoenix in every MU!

E: obligatory still hacking?


----------



## jellybeans69

Did my placement match yesterday , stayed in plat as expected , Sc2Gears plugin shows that my MMR is within plat so nothing unexpected in that matter.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Did my placement match yesterday , stayed in plat as expected , Sc2Gears plugin shows that my MMR is within plat so nothing unexpected in that matter.


Since you're a Zerg player, could I have your opinion please: how do you deal with Terran and what is the scariest thing Terran can do to you?


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> this is so messup.. i was top 4 diamond yesterday in 1v1, no bonus pool and 105/95 win loss and today i won the placement match and guess what... i got platinum.. so wth...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> haha, I was 1v1 diamond, huge bonus pool, about 50/50 win/loss I think won my placement match and got gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much working up to do!
> 
> Also the perfect environment to work with heavy phoenix in every MU!
> 
> E: obligatory still hacking?


So im not the only one in Diamond that got messed up. Wonderful


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Since you're a Zerg player, could I have your opinion please: how do you deal with Terran and what is the scariest thing Terran can do to you?


Let's say most annoying thing to deal with is Medivac/marauder/marine/ with some hellbats in front. This is bloody annoying combo.

As for dealing with my ZvT is my worst matchup it's hard , but lings / mutas into ultras is most usual thing.
To compare my ZvT - 41% , ZvP - 59% , ZvZ 48%


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> lapengu stream snipe tumescentpie or did you just randomly hit him on ladder? Watching him play a lapengu right now.


I must've played and not realized it was him .___. lol. I am the ONLY lapengu.







Did i win?









EDIT: Yeah it was me. Found the games in his stream.







He didnt seem too happy with my build hahaha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Since you're a Zerg player, could I have your opinion please: how do you deal with Terran and what is the scariest thing Terran can do to you?


I know you weren't asking me, but really the only thing you can do at this point is to scout for the hellbat drop, defend it, and then go kill them right away. If they dont do a hellbat drop, just relax, take a third and macro up muta/ling/bane. Only thing that can really stop it is widow mines, which aren't too useful in a base race, so just force one if they go mass mine.

If the terran goes mech off the hellbat drop, just mass up swarmhost/viper. It works.







But we rarely get to see this anymore..


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> I must've played and not realized it was him .___. lol. I am the ONLY lapengu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did i win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Yeah it was me. Found the games in his stream.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didnt seem too happy with my build hahaha


Yeah lol he is never happy with anyones build. All he does is qq about how weak terran is, how op every other race is and how the matchups are broken and whatnot. Sometimes it gets old but most of the times it's pure entertainment. Glad you won.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Let's say most annoying thing to deal with is Medivac/marauder/marine/ with some hellbats in front. This is bloody annoying combo.
> 
> As for dealing with my ZvT is my worst matchup it's hard , but lings / mutas into ultras is most usual thing.
> To compare my ZvT - 41% , ZvP - 59% , ZvZ 48%


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> I know you weren't asking me, but really the only thing you can do at this point is to scout for the hellbat drop, defend it, and then go kill them right away. If they dont do a hellbat drop, just relax, take a third and macro up muta/ling/bane. Only thing that can really stop it is widow mines, which aren't too useful in a base race, so just force one if they go mass mine.
> 
> If the terran goes mech off the hellbat drop, just mass up swarmhost/viper. It works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we rarely get to see this anymore..


Thanks!

If the Terran tries to macro up to MMM, say fast expand then pushes at about 7mins with marines (no hellbat or mech play), is Zerg pretty safe outmacroing him with just muta/ling/bane, or infestors? Is it like a free win for Zerg or is it a strong strat for Terran or just depends on the players in question?

I'm a Gold Terran and have been experimenting with the pure bio build (marine marauder medivac), but I'm failing to see why it's so strong. So far I've seen that if you push out with marines the zerg can build up to a bunch of lings/bane and overrun you every time you push out. Where lies the true strength of bio against Zerg?


----------



## jellybeans69

Bane's can be kited without an issue the real strength is in cost-efficiency of MMM , marauders will usually absorb bane hits unless zerg attack's from several positions at same time. I'd suggest trying ~10m timing attacks. And if you add few hellbats the just melt lings way too efficiently + can be healed.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> If the Terran tries to macro up to MMM, say fast expand then pushes at about 7mins with marines (no hellbat or mech play), is Zerg pretty safe outmacroing him with just muta/ling/bane, or infestors? Is it like a free win for Zerg or is it a strong strat for Terran or just depends on the players in question?
> 
> I'm a Gold Terran and have been experimenting with the pure bio build (marine marauder medivac), but I'm failing to see why it's so strong. So far I've seen that if you push out with marines the zerg can build up to a bunch of lings/bane and overrun you every time you push out. Where lies the true strength of bio against Zerg?


I've been playing Terran a fair bit lately, I'm not the best T player in the world (Zerg is my main race) but I'm currently in Diamond with it and consider myself a decent player. I've played bio ever since the game first came out, mech just doesn't really suit me.

The main advantage of bio is it's cost efficiency. You can trade armies and most of the time you'll come out top in resources lost. Drops are another very strong side to bio, you can drop 8 marines in their mineral line and most of the time it will do a fair bit of damage. If you save the medivac and lose all of the marines that's not a lot lost even if you don't do much damage.

One thing with bio vs any race you need is some basic micro skills, if you just attack move you'll get owned by banelings, infestors, colossus, siege tanks, storms etc. Basic splitting is something you can learn very quickly, you don't need MMA level skills, you just need to minimise splash damage as much as possible. Also, get upgrades! I see so many platinum and below T bio players who sit on 1/1 upgrades until like 15 minutes. By 15 minutes you should be on 3/3 or at least have it 50% of the way done. Marines benefit from upgrades so much.


----------



## hamzatm

Thanks a bunch guys, just what I was looking to know! Awesome


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> If the Terran tries to macro up to MMM, say fast expand then pushes at about 7mins with marines (no hellbat or mech play), is Zerg pretty safe outmacroing him with just muta/ling/bane, or infestors? Is it like a free win for Zerg or is it a strong strat for Terran or just depends on the players in question?
> 
> I'm a Gold Terran and have been experimenting with the pure bio build (marine marauder medivac), but I'm failing to see why it's so strong. So far I've seen that if you push out with marines the zerg can build up to a bunch of lings/bane and overrun you every time you push out. *Where lies the true strength of bio against Zerg?*


Drops. Thats literally ALL you have to do. If youre playing WoL style, basically you tank up your 2nd/3rd/4th depending on how agressive the zerg is, and just drop. Everywhere. If they go mutas, add in some vikings or thors off of your factories. Other than that, just try to keep him from expanding and you win.


----------



## CravinR1

SOO Tempted to order this for my Galaxy Note 2

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSamsung-Galaxy-Note-N7100-Case%2Fdp%2FB00B58K8H6%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1371112077%26sr%3D8-1%26keywords%3Dprotoss%2Bnote%2B2%2Bcase]http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-N7100-Case/dp/B00B58K8H6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371112077&sr=8-1&keywords=protoss+note+2+case[/URL] [URL=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n-kFSoSLL._SY300_.jpg%5B/img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n-kFSoSLL._SY300_.jpg[/img[/URL]]

or for you other players:

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%2Fref%3Dnb_sb_noss%3Furl%3Dsearch-alias%253Dmobile%26field-keywords%3Dstarcraft%2520note%25202%2520case]http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmobile&field-keywords=starcraft%20note%202%20case[/URL]


----------



## jellybeans69

That black zerg one looks so sexy.


----------



## CravinR1

Seriously thinking of spending the $20 for one of those


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Seriously thinking of spending the $20 for one of those


Meh nothing for my Samsung Ace I


----------



## hamzatm

Looks nice in the pics but remember it's just a printed image on a normal case. May not look so good IRL!


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> SOO Tempted to order this for my Galaxy Note 2
> 
> [URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSamsung-Galaxy-Note-N7100-Case%2Fdp%2FB00B58K8H6%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1371112077%26sr%3D8-1%26keywords%3Dprotoss%2Bnote%2B2%2Bcase]http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-N7100-Case/dp/B00B58K8H6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371112077&sr=8-1&keywords=protoss+note+2+case[/URL] [URL=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n-kFSoSLL._SY300_.jpg%5B/img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n-kFSoSLL._SY300_.jpg[/img[/URL]]
> 
> or for you other players:
> 
> [URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%2Fref%3Dnb_sb_noss%3Furl%3Dsearch-alias%253Dmobile%26field-keywords%3Dstarcraft%2520note%25202%2520case]http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmobile&field-keywords=starcraft%20note%202%20case[/URL][/QUOTE]
> 
> Nothing for my galaxy nexus. [IMG alt="mad.gif"]https://www.overclock.net/images/smilies/mad.gif I would buy it if i were you


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Seriously thinking of spending the $20 for one of those


Having owned the original Note for a few months, I think a case would make it too bulky. Then again I sold mine because I couldn't get over how uncomfortable it felt to use one-handed so YMMV.


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey guys, need a little help identifying music piece from SC2.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> After transfering all my stuff from my old and busted laptop to my wife's new hotness desktop, today I also isntalled SC2. Right after I launched it for a first time, a really awesome track started playing in the background!
> It had awesome female opera vocals and a gentle acoustic guitar at some point. After that I imediately downloaded everything I could find on SC2 soundtrack, and listened through half of YouTube but couldn't find that track again!
> 
> Does anybody know the name?


----------



## CravinR1

I'm 6'3" and currently have a i717 Note that is going to be replaced with a Verizon Note 2 i605 as soon as my sim card comes today.


----------



## Anti!!

>.>

No good zerg ones for gs3


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey guys, need a little help identifying music piece from SC2.


From what youre describing it sounds like the WoL menu music... Dont know the the track name.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> From what youre describing it sounds like the WoL menu music... Dont know the the track name.


I don't think it's from WoL. I've had WoL for over a year and never heard this track. And now it started playing before I logged in - and before the game knew if I had WoL or HotS. After the first login, I now only hear WoL's menu theme when I log in.


----------



## Zulli85

Anyone know if the lost vikings arcade game in the single player campaign has an ending or does it just keep going indefinitely? I got 530,000 points on my first try and it's really boring at this point, haven't exited the game yet. Probably not any point for me to keep going but I'm just curious.


----------



## twerk

That SjoW vs Life game... oh my god.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zulli85*
> 
> Anyone know if the lost vikings arcade game in the single player campaign has an ending or does it just keep going indefinitely? I got 530,000 points on my first try and it's really boring at this point, haven't exited the game yet. Probably not any point for me to keep going but I'm just curious.


Yeah, im pretty sure its endless.

And yeah, SjoW winning was a pretty huge upset.







Enjoyed seeing a terran win something for once, even though they are all evil.


----------



## twerk

DreamHack Summer Open 2013 final on now if anyone is interested









http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacksc2


----------



## Anti!!

My poor poor jaedong..


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My poor poor jaedong..


He's competing with Inno now for who has better looking FanGirl


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> My poor poor jaedong..


I know









Everyone is now doing the StarDust build on ladder and it's so difficult to hold.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> He's competing with Inno now for who has better looking FanGirl


hahaha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> I know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone is now doing the StarDust build on ladder and it's so difficult to hold.


lol Yea, saw that comming. I plan on stopping every protoss in their tracks looong before they can two base anything.


----------



## FrankoNL

I am plat again. With ...... Protoss









What is the "Stardust" build exactly?


----------



## Anti!!

Roughly it is a 2 base 2 gas heavy sentry all in.

very roughly put. Others can elaborate more im sure.


----------



## FrankoNL

So, a immortal sentry all in ... without the immortals?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> So, a immortal sentry all in ... without the immortals?


lol


----------



## Anti!!

He throws in immortals if they are needed. SO yea, basically its nothing new.

I know there is something in there that makes it special. I guess its not as all in ish, but im not toss so i dont know.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> He throws in immortals if they are needed. SO yea, basically its nothing new.
> 
> I know there is something in there that makes it special. I guess its not as all in ish, but im not toss so i dont know.


It's nothing new but his execution and control is amazingly good. In some of the games his sentry count also gets ridiculously high which is the main difference I've seen, if you watch game 1 against JD he has 19 when he finally attacks.

Have to share this gem from Day9, funniest thing ever.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> It's nothing new but his execution and control is amazingly good. In some of the games his sentry count also gets ridiculously high which is the main difference I've seen, if you watch game 1 against JD he has 19 when he finally attacks.
> 
> Have to share this gem from Day9, funniest thing ever.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Day 9 losing it was just the icing on the cake for me haha.


----------



## Sainesk

I think MC is still the funniest...







(skip to 9:45 for the good stuff).






not to mention his I keel you to HuK and Penix imba and countless other comments from other interviews...


----------



## poroboszcz

Flash is going to stream!


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I think MC is still the funniest...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (skip to 9:45 for the good stuff).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention his I keel you to HuK and Penix imba and countless other comments from other interviews...


omg ULTRA SEXY GIRL...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> omg ULTRA SEXY GIRL...


Yyyup.


----------



## FrankoNL

the whole .. lets put her on high heels and give her glasses so the nerds think she's hot too .. it's so overdone ...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> the whole .. lets put her on high heels and give her glasses so the nerds think she's hot too .. it's so overdone ...


Works for me


----------



## hamzatm

I don't see it.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> the whole .. lets put her on high heels and give her glasses so the nerds think she's hot too .. it's so overdone ...


She's pretty damn hot without the high heels and glasses.

Incontrol is a lucky man.


----------



## FrankoNL

I'm not saying she is not beautifull. It is just like the other girl who also does the League of Legends things. The blonde with the french sounding last name.

Both gorgeous .. and probably sophisticated and smart too but they are being portrayed as these "hot gamer chicks" .. just let them be hot, don't push it so much









EDIT: She's dating Incontrol?







whats her name anyway


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I'm not saying she is not beautifull. It is just like the other girl who also does the League of Legends things. The blonde with the french sounding last name.
> 
> Both gorgeous .. and probably sophisticated and smart too but they are being portrayed as these "hot gamer chicks" .. just let them be hot, don't push it so much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: She's dating Incontrol?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats her name anyway


Ya know these events it is very likely the girls dress and style themselves. Maybe she wanted to portray that image herself? Maybe she is a nerd at heart?

Incontrol is married to her not dating her. Her name is Anna Prosser. She can be seen in various EG videos on youtube.


----------



## ronnin426850

Rachel.

/sc2chicks


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Flash is going to stream!


Hey virgins, you missed something way more important!!!

Flash streaming!!!!!!!!

Hahahahaha


----------



## Sainesk

I got more excited over this than the pictures of chicks (oh oh, queue the jokes):

A zergling plushy that can morph into a baneling and back...











http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10333774/exclusive-blizzard-merch-at-san-diego-comic-con-6-28-2013

so jelly of anyone who's going to attend (and get one of these), i'm in Canada...


----------



## hawker

Haha genius stuffed animal


----------



## FrankoNL

Posted under an account of my colleague by accident. I am Hawker


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I got more excited over this than the pictures of chicks (oh oh, queue the jokes):
> A zergling plushy that can morph into a baneling and back...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10333774/exclusive-blizzard-merch-at-san-diego-comic-con-6-28-2013
> 
> so jelly of anyone who's going to attend (and get one of these), i'm in Canada...


Oh my god!







I want one!


----------



## eosgreen

hero vs hyun..... da best games


----------



## Anti!!

THey need to hire me for computer management. lol

YOU ARE ALL USING THE SAME EARBUDS! GET OVER IT!!! K BAI!

jk jks


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> THey need to hire me for computer management. lol
> 
> YOU ARE ALL USING THE SAME EARBUDS! GET OVER IT!!! K BAI!
> 
> jk jks


about the echo? yeh that was awful


----------



## HometownHero

Trying to build a new gaming rig, would appreciate your guys' input. Need to upgrade so I can watch lings fly in the air after getting hit by my mines...


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Trying to build a new gaming rig, would appreciate your guys' input. Need to upgrade so I can watch lings fly in the air after getting hit by my mines...


The 4770K won't make a difference over the 4670K when it comes to gaming so depending on what else you do on your rig could save some $ there (but you put "purchased" next to it so I guess you already have it







). I like the GTX 770 4GB choice, think it's a little overkill (definitely is for Starcraft) if you're playing on a single monitor at your resolution (1920x1200) but I think it'll come in handy in the future whether you get a 3rd monitor or in case some demanding games come out - i'd personally go with the same GPU if I had the money to build a new rig right now.

Windows 8 takes some getting used to if you're coming from 7 but it's okay overall once you figure it out.

Motherboard-wise if you only plan on adding one more GTX 770 down the road i'd go with the GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-OC - won't hold you back if you don't want a third 770 and amazing features + quality from what i've heard.

The Hyper 212+ is an okay cooler but i'd recommend being careful when removing/mounting fans to the heatsink - the clips are made of plastic and if you're not extremely gentle with them they might wear away (like mine did) which means you'll have a loose fan.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> The 4770K won't make a difference over the 4670K when it comes to gaming so depending on what else you do on your rig could save some $ there (but you put "purchased" next to it so I guess you already have it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I like the GTX 770 4GB choice, think it's a little overkill (definitely is for Starcraft) if you're playing on a single monitor at your resolution (1920x1200) but I think it'll come in handy in the future whether you get a 3rd monitor or in case some demanding games come out - i'd personally go with the same GPU if I had the money to build a new rig right now.
> 
> Windows 8 takes some getting used to if you're coming from 7 but it's okay overall once you figure it out.
> 
> Motherboard-wise if you only plan on adding one more GTX 770 down the road i'd go with the GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-OC - won't hold you back if you don't want a third 770 and amazing features + quality from what i've heard.
> The Hyper 212+ is an okay cooler but i'd recommend being careful when removing/mounting fans to the heatsink - the clips are made of plastic and if you're not extremely gentle with them they might wear away (like mine did) which means you'll have a loose fan.


I keep hearing speculation that the hyperthreading on the 4770k might translate into better performance on next gen games so I thought I could future proof the build a little bit by bumping the cpu. And yeah the 4gb gpu is probably over kill I just wanted to future proof it a bit.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> I keep hearing speculation that the hyperthreading on the 4770k might translate into better performance on next gen games so I thought I could future proof the build a little bit by bumping the cpu. And yeah the 4gb gpu is probably over kill I just wanted to future proof it a bit.


Well, in 5 or 6 years the single core performance might be beneficial over a Sandy or Ivy Bridge i7, but there's no real difference in the actual hyper-threading. On top of that, having those extra threads makes no noticeable impact at this point in time; there simply isn't a need for more than four if you're playing games.


----------



## FrankoNL

Try hellfire peninsula 64 players in BF with two 7970 crossfired and a 4770k vs a 4670k ... HT Makes a hell of a difference


----------



## HometownHero

Ended up going with this build and will use my GTX 580 until the Radeon 9 series comes out.

In other news, anyone see the recent TLPD win percentages? They seemed really even, makes me wonder if a hellbat nerf is even necessary.


----------



## FrankoNL

Is it true that they changed the difficulty level for people to get in to masters? I have heard people talking about this.

the reasoning behind it would be that only the top 2 % is supposed to make it to masters. Not the top 10 %.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Is it true that they changed the difficulty level for people to get in to masters? I have heard people talking about this.
> 
> the reasoning behind it would be that only the top 2 % is supposed to make it to masters. Not the top 10 %.


Sounds good to me, IDK if it's true though.
It would give more meaning to "masters"







When you hear "masters" you expect to see the best. And most of the guys there AFAIK have 0 chance against a pro. That doesn't sound like much of a master to me


----------



## FrankoNL

Im just plat. For me they are masters


----------



## ronnin426850

Actually I don't know how the leagues stand currently, how big is the gap between plat and masters?


----------



## FrankoNL

Plat, Diamond and then masters. After masters there is Grandmaster .. but i guess you know that already









difference between plat and masters is massive


----------



## LinkPro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero*
> 
> Ended up going with this build and will use my GTX 580 until the Radeon 9 series comes out.
> 
> In other news, anyone see the recent TLPD win percentages? They seemed really even, makes me wonder if a hellbat nerf is even necessary.


The real problem with hellbats is that hellbat drops are cheap and so much easier to execute than to defend. Just load up a medivac, shift-click to opponent's base, boost when available. If the defend responds even a few seconds late he will lose 10+ workers easily. Even if he responds well enough, the hellbats are still so hard to kill since they can be healed. As long as the medivac gets out, a hellbat drop is always worth it because of the lost mining time for the opponent. Easily the most overpowered harassment tactic, compared to oracles or mutalisks which both cost more and get shut down way more easily.

Terran can fail multiple hellbat drops in a game, but if one goes off successfully he's automatically ahead. That's why even at the pro level all you see terran players do is exactly just that - constant hellbat drops. Maru vs Trap game 3 OSL - Trap defended well all game long and was actually ahead in resources lost then let a hellbat drop get into his natural while he dealt with the the mass drop in his main, and ended up losing the game.

Not to mention TvT has been ruined with people hellbat dropping each other.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Is it true that they changed the difficulty level for people to get in to masters? I have heard people talking about this.
> 
> the reasoning behind it would be that only the top 2 % is supposed to make it to masters. Not the top 10 %.


That was the case last season but it seems to have been fixed. I made master last season but was bumped down to diamond this season along with many other master league players. I believe it was 8% last season, not sure on the statistic this season but it is definitely harder now(like hard enough I am confident I won't make it back). Things seemed to have evened out.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Actually I don't know how the leagues stand currently, how big is the gap between plat and masters?


Here are the target league percentages:



It does vary depending on the server though, you can see more detailed stats here:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Here are the target league percentages:
> 
> 
> 
> It does vary depending on the server though, you can see more detailed stats here:
> http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all


That's great info, thanks. Repped.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I got placed into platinum some how ( after being probably mid-masters ). I've given up on how this system works. I just get promoted into Masters within a week every time now....


----------



## FrankoNL

I just play the race i feel like right now







Last 2 weeks i have been focussing on zerg on the US. Top gold right now. My toss is platinum on the EU server. 1500 games and still only platinum. Some of us are just more talented


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well I got placed into platinum some how ( after being probably mid-masters ). I've given up on how this system works. I just get promoted into Masters within a week every time now....


Last season masters was the top 8% or so (on NA anyway), so now it's a lot harder because it's now the top 2%. I'm sure you'll get back up









All the leagues have become a lot harder too as everyone was moved down a league at the start of this season.


----------



## FrankoNL

So top gold ( my zerg right now ) can be compared to mid platinum or so in the previous season?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Last season masters was the top 8% or so (on NA anyway), so now it's a lot harder because it's now the top 2%. I'm sure you'll get back up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the leagues have become a lot harder too as everyone was moved down a league at the start of this season.


I keep thinking I'll get back into and stay into but it's just such a commitment to stay in masters every season now.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> All the leagues have become a lot harder too as everyone was moved down a league at the start of this season.


Everyone? Does this mean people who moved up a league have a reason to feel flattered


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Everyone? Does this mean people who moved up a league have a reason to feel flattered


Everyone I've spoken to has been moved down at the start of the season after their placement match. They are all plat+ though so it might be different for lower leagues.


----------



## Anti!!

They restructured in a manner that you have to prove your status each season. That way we dont have a league full of undeserving players just riding a mmr from previous seasons.

I.E. me. lol


----------



## hamzatm

Ah that makes a lotta sense.


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> They restructured in a manner that you have to prove your status each season. That way we dont have a league full of undeserving players just riding a mmr from previous seasons.
> 
> I.E. me. lol


haha I know that feeling!

I felt so insulted but it was so deserved when I got demoted to gold from diamond. Played it off as excuus to go mass phoenix in each matchup.









I guess that this reproving will also make it easier for beginners to get out of bronze for others aren't riding on 'high' mmr to stay in silver.

I like it, I also like the potential change of adding blueflame to rhe hellbats. (Removing the base +light bonus ofc.)


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> haha I know that feeling!
> 
> I felt so insulted but it was so deserved when I got demoted to gold from diamond. Played it off as excuus to go mass phoenix in each matchup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that this reproving will also make it easier for beginners to get out of bronze for others aren't riding on 'high' mmr to stay in silver.
> 
> I like it, I also like the potential change of adding blueflame to rhe hellbats. (Removing the base +light bonus ofc.)


LOL!!


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, guys, where can I find statistics on how much people still play WoL? Because I haven't moved to HotS, and would like to know if there's the danger of being the only one left in WoL









Also, another question - I LOVE tower defense, and by now surely there must be some way to play TD in SC2. How?


----------



## Anti!!

I used to play all kinds of TD games in Arcade. Have you not done that?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I used to play all kinds of TD games in Arcade. Have you not done that?


No, tell me more about it pls


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> No, tell me more about it pls


Well in the land of sc2 arcade (arcade multiplayer) you can search for td custom games. Its just that easy. If I remember correctly there is a drop down to choose from melee and TD (also other types). It may have changed. I dont play them anymore. Maybe someone who has tried recently can verify.


----------



## hamzatm

Yeah you just go into the arcade and play.

Isn't much more to it really, not sure how you missed it!


----------



## Shimme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Here are the target league percentages:
> 
> 
> 
> It does vary depending on the server though, you can see more detailed stats here:
> http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all


Only 740k people in the world play ladder? That's actually quite depressing :/ I thought it was a few million at least.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Plat, Diamond and then masters. After masters there is Grandmaster .. but i guess you know that already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> difference between plat and masters is massive


I remember getting out of plat then struggling in diamond. The main difference i remember between plat and diamond is a bit of micro and okay macro. Surprisingly in plat i started splitting like a madman vs banelings and formaing great concaves vs protoss as a terran. This won me engagements and my wins started sky rocketing. When i finally reached diamond i started losing game after game, concaves didn't help either, splitting only helped for so long. This is where macro starts playing a HUGE role.Whenever i'd lose i'd just look at the difference in scv count and thing.. damn! Now as a high diamond (top 10) trying to get into masters, i believe masters have a bit better game decision making and their macro is on par to what you'd expect from a master player otherwise they wouldn't be there. And build order execution just seems spot on from what i've observed.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I remember getting out of plat then struggling in diamond. The main difference i remember between plat and diamond is a bit of micro and okay macro. Surprisingly in plat i started splitting like a madman vs banelings and formaing great concaves vs protoss as a terran. This won me engagements and my wins started sky rocketing. When i finally reached diamond i started losing game after game, concaves didn't help either, splitting only helped for so long. This is where macro starts playing a HUGE role.Whenever i'd lose i'd just look at the difference in scv count and thing.. damn! Now as a high diamond (top 10) trying to get into masters, i believe masters have a bit better game decision making and their macro is on par to what you'd expect from a master player otherwise they wouldn't be there. And build order execution just seems spot on from what i've observed.


This has also been my experience.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> No, tell me more about it pls


One of the more popular games in arcade is called Squadron TD. It's a 4v4 TD-based game that uses army units as towers and is quite fun.


----------



## Qu1ckset

I have always been a all protoss player but started getting bored so I switched it up and started playing zerg and man its so much more fun then toss, and expo'ing seems so much faster!


----------



## Shimme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I have always been a all protoss player but started getting bored so I switched it up and started playing zerg and man its so much more fun then toss, and expo'ing seems so much faster!


Yeah man same here! I started playing when HoTS came out and started as P, but it always seemed that in my league (Gold) all I could do was turtle with some occasional harass when it was a longer than 20 minute game.

I'm loving Z atm, it seems so much more mobile and flexible than "Well I can go Colossus or Archon/Zealot..." I don't know, it feels like I have more options and I'm actually making decisions about what to do instead of standing back and waiting for the other guy to make a mistake - Now I get to be the guy making the mistake!

*High five for a Zerg Buddy!*


----------



## FrankoNL

beat my first diamon player ( i'm plat ) today as zerg ... Happy day!







. Those widow mines give me heart attacks sometimes. Lose half my army to them. Thank god the splitting is not yet up to par with most terrans.
Immediately stopped playing cause i would probably get destroyed the next game!


----------



## Qu1ckset

Whats a good strat for versus terrain with zerg?


----------



## Shimme

F2>A>Right click on the rocks. Works pretty well vs the Terrain


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> F2>A>Right click on the rocks. Works pretty well vs the Terrain


Lol I meant to put terran


----------



## Shimme

Yeah man







Depends a lot on what theyr'e doing. I'd check out Day[9] if you haven't before, he was a Brood War pro and does strategy/analysis with some casting. I've learned SO much from him and would say that as P I basically went from low to high gold just from him teaching how to figure out opponents builds.

Actually the first question I should ask is - what league are you in? The advice that should be given to a Bronze Leaguer is very different from the advice that should be given to a Diamond/Plat


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> Yeah man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends a lot on what theyr'e doing. I'd check out Day[9] if you haven't before, he was a Brood War pro and does strategy/analysis with some casting. I've learned SO much from him and would say that as P I basically went from low to high gold just from him teaching how to figure out opponents builds.
> 
> Actually the first question I should ask is - what league are you in? The advice that should be given to a Bronze Leaguer is very different from the advice that should be given to a Diamond/Plat


I don't play 1v1, I only play 3v3, and im #1 in plat league for that looking to rank up soon


----------



## FrankoNL

I always go standard ling/bane/muta with upgrades into ultralisks with infestors .. Seems to work very well vs bio. Splitting is hard









I just suck vs mech though. What strats are you guys using vs these kind of builds?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I always go standard ling/bane/muta with upgrades into ultralisks with infestors .. Seems to work very well vs bio. Splitting is hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just suck vs mech though. What strats are you guys using vs these kind of builds?


Mech hates roach, hydra, swarmhost, and viper.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I have always been a all protoss player but started getting bored so I switched it up and started playing zerg and man its so much more fun then toss, and expo'ing seems so much faster!


Changing your race is always fun, but after playing random for a good while I actually find zerg to be the most boring. It's just mostly macro focused and there is not much to do in battles. Terran is extremely fun, but I find it quite difficult so I went back to protoss eventually.

With mothership core and improved stargate tech it's much better than it was in WoL and I find myself limited by APM and the number of control groups I use, with certain styles. I think protoss is also most strategy and build order dependent which means you have a better chance to do well with poor mechanics, but good decision making.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I don't play 1v1, I only play 3v3, and im #1 in plat league for that looking to rank up soon


Team games are all about timing attacks, most won't last more than 15 minutes. If you try and go for a long macro game you'll probably lose the majority of the time.

My advice is to look up builds with your team mates where the attack times line-up. For example, a Protoss goes for a 4 gate, Terran goes for 3 rax and a Zerg goes for heavy roach play and you all attack at around 6 minutes. I'm not sure if this strat actually works. I'm just thinking of 3 builds that line-up but you get the point


----------



## Anti!!

The only time I play team is for fun. I always macro. I also am not worried about my rank. Once I had hit masters 1v1 I really don't have that complex anymore.


----------



## ronnin426850

Did you watch DHOpen? Wow. Korean Z vs Korean Z on the final. Who could guess... -_-


----------



## eosgreen

just came back after 2 years, got masters on my 2 accounts and on both accounts i have a 30 percent win rate vs toss as zerg. I used to be top 8 masters EVERY season and now i cant even beat protoss in LOW masters its unreal....

the MSC just ruins everything. im pretty upset about toss lol im about to main as it


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> just came back after 2 years, got masters on my 2 accounts and on both accounts i have a 30 percent win rate vs toss as zerg. I used to be top 8 masters EVERY season and now i cant even beat protoss in LOW masters its unreal....
> 
> *the MSC just ruins everything*. im pretty upset about toss lol *im about to main as it*


I felt the exact same way about the MSC when hots came out. Just gotta adapt to all the new builds and you'll be fine.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> I felt the exact same way about the MSC when hots came out. Just gotta adapt to all the new builds and you'll be fine.


i dont actually think thats the issue tho. lets examine what a MSC does, first off late game it provides a slow that when combined with storm is very similar to the "archon toilet" in that if it occurs, you are dead. now clearly you can viper it in and kill it sure but its just sad that this thing along CAN kill you. also the msc slow when used on locust gives them an INSANE window to attack you and god forbid your vipers get feedbacked or you didnt have any out yet because its very early well now you are screwed sorry

if you notice protoss did forge expands 90 percnet of the games, now they are doing gateway first openings. the reason this is a problem in the long run is because you cannot drone properly vs gateway first every game if A - msc denys the army moving out, B - any army you produce to kill his army cant kill his army because he can recall or C - attacking into his early 3rd can be beat by "nexus PDF" nonsense. important when considering that a toss can push out, gateway sentry zel stalker army which is beatable with say roach ling or just burrow roach (which is technically the most logical response since a good toss assumes more roaches are coming and without an obs will die and now retreat leaving you to not need a large army) but guess what, they DO NOT FORFEIT THIS ARMY. this is critical because you just cut drones to produce army? what happens when as this toss was pushing he also teched to just immortals? is your roach army able to deal with double robo immortal or something else thats stupid now that you are on a low number of drones?

i feel every protoss needs to start getting his head out of his ass and just constantly attack and recall his army early game. there is literally no reason why a protoss with even the smallest amount of units should not be scaring the **** out of every zerg into improperly or equally droning. on the macro side? its hard for a zerg to take a 4th when the toss is in his face randomly and constantly, now the toss expanded behind this and you are even bases. goodluck winning on even bases vs toss when even a 2 base toss can beat even the best pros in the game

msc is broken, you beat people by playing way better then them, but in WoL a perfectly played zerg cannot lose because of his races mechanics. in HOTS a perfectly played and aggressive toss disables the #1 zerg rule, drone then army then drone then army and turns it into drones? or army? both? what? is it safe? is he moving out? and you cant know this because MSC is a flying unit that you get at 5mins into the game... hell one of the biggest tells in the game, the chronoboost on forge was basically taken away by MSC and MSC reveals where the overlord sac is coming from so you can get ready with a cannon or a stalker (which my buddy does and hes a dick but thats what GM toss do and it makes life hell) the toss on the KR server have something like 70-80 percent win rate vs zerg i hear (the good ones) and i see why. denial of information. ive experimented with overlord speed but you get pretty put off when you still didnt get to find tech or overlord still dies for whatever reason


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> i dont actually think thats the issue tho. lets examine what a MSC does, first off late game it provides a slow that when combined with storm is very similar to the "archon toilet" in that if it occurs, you are dead. now clearly you can viper it in and kill it sure but its just sad that this thing along CAN kill you. also the msc slow when used on locust gives them an INSANE window to attack you and god forbid your vipers get feedbacked or you didnt have any out yet because its very early well now you are screwed sorry
> 
> if you notice protoss did forge expands 90 percnet of the games, now they are doing gateway first openings. the reason this is a problem in the long run is because you cannot drone properly vs gateway first every game if A - msc denys the army moving out, B - any army you produce to kill his army cant kill his army because he can recall or C - attacking into his early 3rd can be beat by "nexus PDF" nonsense. important when considering that a toss can push out, gateway sentry zel stalker army which is beatable with say roach ling or just burrow roach (which is technically the most logical response since a good toss assumes more roaches are coming and without an obs will die and now retreat leaving you to not need a large army) but guess what, they DO NOT FORFEIT THIS ARMY. this is critical because you just cut drones to produce army? what happens when as this toss was pushing he also teched to just immortals? is your roach army able to deal with double robo immortal or something else thats stupid now that you are on a low number of drones?
> 
> i feel every protoss needs to start getting his head out of his ass and just constantly attack and recall his army early game. there is literally no reason why a protoss with even the smallest amount of units should not be scaring the **** out of every zerg into improperly or equally droning. on the macro side? its hard for a zerg to take a 4th when the toss is in his face randomly and constantly, now the toss expanded behind this and you are even bases. goodluck winning on even bases vs toss when even a 2 base toss can beat even the best pros in the game
> 
> msc is broken, you beat people by playing way better then them, but in WoL a perfectly played zerg cannot lose because of his races mechanics. in HOTS a perfectly played and aggressive toss disables the #1 zerg rule, drone then army then drone then army and turns it into drones? or army? both? what? is it safe? is he moving out? and you cant know this because MSC is a flying unit that you get at 5mins into the game... hell one of the biggest tells in the game, the chronoboost on forge was basically taken away by MSC and MSC reveals where the overlord sac is coming from so you can get ready with a cannon or a stalker (which my buddy does and hes a dick but thats what GM toss do and it makes life hell) the toss on the KR server have something like 70-80 percent win rate vs zerg i hear (the good ones) and i see why. denial of information. ive experimented with overlord speed but you get pretty put off when you still didnt get to find tech or overlord still dies for whatever reason


LOL!!! I can understand your frustration. That last bit about drone? make army? is he pushing? lol


----------



## Qu1ckset

I see a OCnet member in my 3v3 plat league in third (pigfarmer) , im in second atm going for first (raven)


----------



## eosgreen

are there any good toss here i could use a practice partner JUST toss and be high masters please!


----------



## Mr357

The frustrating MSC move I've seen in 1v1 obs is sending it straight to the mineral line and then recalling before it gets taken out. A poorly defended line at that timing can easily lose 5 or more workers.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> The frustrating MSC move I've seen in 1v1 obs is sending it straight to the mineral line and then recalling before it gets taken out. A poorly defended line at that timing can easily lose 5 or more workers.


eh i can never see that actually happening to anyone with half a brain. queen beats it, marines beat it, stalkers beat it


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> eh i can never see that actually happening to anyone with half a brain. queen beats it, marines beat it, stalkers beat it


Exactly, the earliest a mothership core can be in your mineral line is about 5:00, if you don't have enough stuff to deal with it by then you deserve to lose workers. It takes 1 queen, 1 stalker or 4 marines (3 if microed) to beat a mothership core


----------



## eosgreen

btw if anyone needs help i know i just got back to the game but my win rate zvz and zvt are 75 percent - 80 percent between my various accounts around mid masters (dont ask pvz i havent learned it yet) id be happy to help

green 338 but i name changed so it may be orange 338 and the other acc is my friends i forget its code so ye theres that one that im usually on

OO also id kill to know this months win rates


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> Exactly, the earliest a mothership core can be in your mineral line is about 5:00, if you don't have enough stuff to deal with it by then you deserve to lose workers. It takes 1 queen, 1 stalker or 4 marines (3 if microed) to beat a mothership core


It's not supposed to be a cheese, just an early harass. You let it soak up damage and then recall it at the last second. In the time it takes for a queen or stalker to destroy an MSC you can kill a worker or two.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> It's not supposed to be a cheese, just an early harass. You let it soak up damage and then recall it at the last second. In the time it takes for a queen or stalker to destroy an MSC you can kill a worker or two.


You shouldn't allow them to kill a worker or two. That's like losing workers to a reaper, it just shouldn't happen and as with a reaper, their aim isn't to kill workers it's just to scout you. Once the monthership core gets 3 hits in on a worker you move it away. Like with reapers you may lose one occasionally if you mis-micro but it's not the end of the world.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> You shouldn't allow them to kill a worker or two. That's like losing workers to a reaper, it just shouldn't happen and as with a reaper, their aim isn't to kill workers it's just to scout you. Once the monthership core gets 3 hits in on a worker you move it away. Like with reapers you may lose one occasionally if you mis-micro but it's not the end of the world.


unless they proxy reaper and you went 16 hatch 18 pool because you are BEING GREEDY AND THIS ******* ******* PROXY BUILT LIKE 5 REAPERS AND THE BASES ARE TOO FAR APART SO YOU CANT SPREAD CREEP FAST ENOUGH AND HES GOOD AT MICRO FSBGIDSGJOPDSGN

........


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> unless they proxy reaper and you went 16 hatch 18 pool because you are BEING GREEDY AND THIS ******* ******* PROXY BUILT LIKE 5 REAPERS AND THE BASES ARE TOO FAR APART SO YOU CANT SPREAD CREEP FAST ENOUGH AND HES GOOD AT MICRO FSBGIDSGJOPDSGN
> 
> ........


Lol. If you don't scout that and you are doing a greedy build you have to be pretty damn good to hold it off.


----------



## eosgreen

meant 17 pool


----------



## Cyro999

Hatch first and then three drones before pool on a map with bases far apart is vunerable to proxied reapers, kinda obvious


----------



## Yukss

hi guys.. what about this engagements?
(minute 14:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8c8D3KcLUQ

(minute 16:30) (minute 22:35) (minute 24:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcTucgExgQc

me and some friends playing a mini "tournament"
http://challonge.com/3x1i7miz

ps. cant embeed the youtube video..


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> hi guys.. what about this engagements?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8c8D3KcLUQ (minute 14:10)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcTucgExgQc (minute 16:30) (minute 22:35) (minute 24:05)
> 
> me and some friends playing a mini "tournament"
> http://challonge.com/3x1i7miz


What do you mean what about these engagements? If they're good or if they're bad? For the terran it's clearly horrible.

1. Bad Concave
2. Worst storm dodging + no ghosts
3. Never enough vikings
4. Damn!


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> What do you mean what about these engagements? If they're good or if they're bad? For the terran it's clearly horrible.
> 
> 1. Bad Concave
> 2. Worst storm dodging + no ghosts
> 3. Never enough vikings
> 4. Damn!


im the toss guy.. yeah he played horrible.. and i mean what about the storms and feedbaks placements..


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> What do you mean what about these engagements? If they're good or if they're bad? For the terran it's clearly horrible.
> 
> 1. Bad Concave
> 2. Worst storm dodging + no ghosts
> 3. Never enough vikings
> 4. Damn!


^^ Exactly.

You didn't have a concave set-up either and you just A-moved with your high templar getting them killed but at that point the damage was already done.
You have storm, he doesn't have ghosts. That's pretty much an insta-win for you


----------



## ronnin426850

TvZ could be soooo easy...


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> TvZ could be soooo easy...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> im the toss guy.. yeah he played horrible.. and i mean what about the storms and feedbaks placements..


.......


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> .......


Yeah, i don't get it either, don't worry.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> .......


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Yeah, i don't get it either, don't worry.


He's asking if his storms and feedbacks were OK. What is it exactly that you don't understand?


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> He's asking if his storms and feedbacks were OK. What is it exactly that you don't understand?


Well... it's like 4 banelings killing 50 marines...

In other words, i didn't think he was asking such an obvious questions, i felt like he must definitely be trying to say something else.


----------



## Yukss

...............

good answer..........!


----------



## eosgreen

what sucks about TvP is you want enough vikings to WRECK the collosi count quickly which reduces ground army and you want marines to kill chargelots. storms and collosi hard counter marines so even though you think you want marauders to tank a bit you want mostly marines to kill off the chargelots. ideally you can snipe obs and just emp high templar and kinda duck in and out defending vikings till the collosi die and you can replenish supply after you retreat for a bit. often times i see terran kill the collosi then fight. generally the collosi have already done massive damage to your bio ball so even though you killed the collosi, they did damage to your primary ball while you retained air units with no def upgs in most cases and weak VS ground ability. its better to just retreat and replenish knowing the collosi count was reset then fight and risk a gateway death of chargelots and archons

fighting toss as terran is just like fighting zerg as terran. its rare you win the 200 v 200 but more often you win the 300 v 300 or 250 v 250


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> the 200 v 200 but more often you win the 300 v 300 or 250 v 250


Erm, what?


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Erm, what?


Sometimes when I am alone I dig a whole in the ground. I lay in it and pretend to be a potato....


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> what sucks about TvP is you want enough vikings to WRECK the collosi count quickly which reduces ground army and you want marines to kill chargelots. storms and collosi hard counter marines so even though you think you want marauders to tank a bit you want mostly marines to kill off the chargelots. ideally you can snipe obs and just emp high templar and kinda duck in and out defending vikings till the collosi die and you can replenish supply after you retreat for a bit. often times i see terran kill the collosi then fight. generally the collosi have already done massive damage to your bio ball so even though you killed the collosi, they did damage to your primary ball while you retained air units with no def upgs in most cases and weak VS ground ability. its better to just retreat and replenish knowing the collosi count was reset then fight and risk a gateway death of chargelots and archons
> 
> fighting toss as terran is just like fighting zerg as terran. its rare you win the 200 v 200 but more often you win the 300 v 300 or 250 v 250


Considered hellbats instead of marines? Shreds chargelots while being buff...


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Considered hellbats instead of marines? Shreds chargelots while being buff...


eh hellbats are good i agree but they are slow and you generally lack upgs for them around 16mins which is when 3-3 finishes. its ideal but not always as viable in large enough amounts.

protoss at around 15-16mins is bonkers and very frustrating for some terrans to play

when i say 250 v 250 im talking about a fight where your vikings were to say kill all the collosi, but your bio took heavy losses from fighting (from the collosi) so you remax (both sides) and thats 250 v 250. its commonly used when describing a zerg vs protoss fight where zerg loses the 200 v 200 but wins the 400 v 200 ( a joke that it takes a second remax to beat a deathball)


----------



## ronnin426850

I was just thinking, you guys know what would absolutely kick ass? UT3 with SC2 units.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I was just thinking, you guys know what would absolutely kick ass? UT3 with SC2 units.


I was thinking Planetside or Battlefield with SC2 units and vehicles would be pretty sweet. The closest thing I can think of is Natural Selection 2; it has Marines (standard human), SCV's (welder tool), Firebats (flamethrower), Reapers (jetpack/standard pistol), ground-mode Vikings (Exo suit), Zerglings (standard Alien "Skulk"), Queens/Roaches/Drones (Gorge), Mutalisks (Lerk), and Ultralisks (Onos). There's also an alien unit called a "Fade" that's basically a blinking DT

http://www.naturalselection2.com/


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> I was thinking Planetside or Battlefield with SC2 units and vehicles would be pretty sweet. The closest thing I can think of is Natural Selection 2; it has Marines (standard human), SCV's (welder tool), Firebats (flamethrower), Reapers (jetpack/standard pistol), ground-mode Vikings (Exo suit), Zerglings (standard Alien "Skulk"), Queens/Roaches/Drones (Gorge), Mutalisks (Lerk), and Ultralisks (Onos). There's also an alien unit called a "Fade" that's basically a blinking DT
> 
> http://www.naturalselection2.com/


Checking it out..







btw UT3 also comes pretty close - the tank is pretty much the same as the.. well.. tank. The Hellfire is the same as a sieged tank. Jump boots turn you into a Reaper, rocket launcher turns you into a marauder. The Raptor is Viking + Banshee. The Dark Walker is a Colossus, The Fury is almost a Void Ray, the Nemesis is a Diamondback (miss those in MP







), the Viper is like a flyring Hellion, the Cicada is 100% Banshee. And Necris units are very Zerg-like









Still it would be very cool if Blizzard made a SC FPS


----------



## Sainesk

I'd prefer a SC survival game (coop optional) like the Last Stand from DOW2. Each player controlling a different hero like Raynor, Kerrigan, Zeratul, Stetmann, Nova and such, fighting off hordes of Mengsk's forces (or other scenarios); each hero with different cool abilities like calling nukes, summoning swarm units or healing allies, with epic Boss rounds facing things like a group of Thors or a nearly impenetrable Battlecruiser or a widow mine and so on.


----------



## eosgreen

idra was never this good at casting. def the best caster in the game if this is how he is when he isnt mad at pro gaming


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> idra was never this good at casting. def the best caster in the game if this is how he is when he isnt mad at pro gaming










I agree. Damn, I was so mad at Lucifron yesterday... My favorite player, but did such stupid mistakes to lose from 2-0 lead...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> idra was never this good at casting. def the best caster in the game if this is how he is when he isnt mad at pro gaming


Can i haz get link pls?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Can i haz get link pls?


http://www.twitch.tv/rogtournament


----------



## ronnin426850

I made it out of bronze!





















It seems to me that silver is easier. Already have 5 wins out of 7 matches, and the two loses were because the PC froze for like 5 seconds







I need to reinstall...


----------



## Shadeh

I have a friend who is trying to improve, but he is so stubborn. I tell him to follow build orders, because it gives him an idea of how to play the game and climb up ladder. After a while it will slowly merge with your mind so to say.

But he always says, nah i'll just do my own thing and i'm sure i'll climb. Oh well.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I have a friend who is trying to improve, but he is so stubborn. I tell him to follow build orders, because it gives him an idea of how to play the game and climb up ladder. After a while it will slowly merge with your mind so to say.
> 
> But he always says, nah i'll just do my own thing and i'm sure i'll climb. Oh well.


It can work if he's doing always the same his own thing, than looks at replays and improves it. Eventually he'll end up with a proper build order, it'll just take more time.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It can work if he's doing always the same his own thing, than looks at replays and improves it. Eventually he'll end up with a proper build order, it'll just take more time.


It won't work if he's one of those nutters who think just playing more will make them better. In all honesty at first glance he does sound like one of those people, who just can't be bothered learning build orders and putting any amount of effort into getting better at the game. You really need to understand what you're doing wrong, and to work on one thing at a time


----------



## 13321G4

Following build orders and understanding the game are two very, very different things.

You can get better by just playing and analysing your play but hardly anyone has the time to do it. It is also just not efficient nor fun. We have pro's for this who spend hours and hours refining. Have them try, test, innovate and demonstrate new tactics/builds. Once these builds are demonstrated listen to someone who understands the game as to why they do what ever the hell they are doing at the specific time. I'm thinking Apollo, Day[9], Idra or other player casters.

It is also always important to push your self, but blizzard's ladder system should do that for you...


----------



## Hatchet

Who else thought Grubby was toast after game 1?

His micro was off the charts in game 3. Color me impressed.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatchet*
> 
> Who else thought Grubby was toast after game 1?
> 
> His micro was off the charts in game 3. Color me impressed.


Absolutely. I hope he plays like that on the finals.


----------



## ronnin426850

If LucifroN plays Stephano tonight, it would be beyond awesome... Go Pedro!


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I have a friend who is trying to improve, but he is so stubborn. I tell him to follow build orders, because it gives him an idea of how to play the game and climb up ladder. After a while it will slowly merge with your mind so to say.
> 
> But he always says, nah i'll just do my own thing and i'm sure i'll climb. Oh well.


Mechanics are much more important than build orders. Without proper mechanics build orders cannot and will not be executed properly or in a timely fashion. BO's really aren't needed until plat or sometimes diamond.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Mechanics are much more important than build orders. Without proper mechanics build orders cannot and will not be executed properly or in a timely fashion. BO's really aren't needed until plat or sometimes diamond.


On the other hand, with totally wrong builds, even godly mechanics won't save you. I'd say they are equally important.


----------



## Sals

Does anyone have any tips on improving Timings? my general macro/micro seems alright (coming from someone who hasnt played for very long), Im building plenty and spending my money pretty wisely I just tend to be a little behind in doing so.

I can usually have 2 bases 4 warpgates gas and forge with maybe a robo/stargate depending in about 7/8 mins yet see and play against people who seem to do it in 5/6? I dont ever seem to have money left over though to do so any faster?( I can get this out with pretty much the basics off a few stalkers/sentries plus mothership). Im so how landed in silver and manage to win everyother game if that provides any help to anyone?

Does anyone have any tips on how to improve my timing on construction? Also what to pick up from scouting and when to scout?


----------



## Hatchet

2 bases should be able to support closer to 5-6 warpgates with 1/1.

What is your probe count?


----------



## Sals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatchet*
> 
> 2 bases should be able to support closer to 5-6 warpgates with 1/1.
> 
> What is your probe count?


Usually 32 on minerals 2 per patch and 9-11 on gas depending on time, should I up the count on minerals?


----------



## ronnin426850

OMG Lucifron vs Stephano!







Can't wait !!! Go terran!


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatchet*
> 
> Who else thought Grubby was toast after game 1?
> 
> His micro was off the charts in game 3. Color me impressed.


i always love watching grubby games, crazy stuff always happens

btw protoss looks impossible to beat as zerg atm. these gateway first builds are just insanely overpowered. it ruins zergs mentality and drone patterns and leaves them super defended because of MSC


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> i always love watching grubby games, crazy stuff always happens
> 
> btw protoss looks impossible to beat as zerg atm. these gateway first builds are just insanely overpowered. it ruins zergs mentality and drone patterns and leaves them super defended because of MSC


I don't know about that, but spoiled pro zergs must be very shocked and depressed now that zerg doesn't hold 80% of every tournament







WOL was absurd in that aspect... All semi-finals were ZvZvZvP


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't know about that, but spoiled pro zergs must be very shocked and depressed now that zerg doesn't hold 80% of every tournament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOL was absurd in that aspect... All semi-finals were ZvZvZvP


yeh zvp in WoL was dumb too but for the zerg.

basically protoss as a race is the problem though. TvZ is in a "decent" state atm and good terrans beat zergs just as much as zergs beat terran in WoL assuming good micro

protoss lacks production that the other 2 races have. a zerg prev gave toss issues by maxing at 13mins, pooling money trading and then getting broods and winning. every single protoss build revolves around forcefields which both limit the toss but as a mechanic makes it hard to balance the race

also what? terrans had by far the most finals placements of any of the races in WoL followed by zerg....?


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't think production is the problem with Protoss. It's units' expendability. TvZ is such a good matchup because both races can trade units during the whole game and eventually overcome the opponent with superior economy or through favorable trades. Since protoss units are so expensive you pretty much have to retain them throughout the whole game. You loose your sentries early on or few of your colossi get sniped - gg. Usually in PvX matchups the game is decided in one big engagement which is just not very entertaining.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/rogtournament


>.>

Poo, it no worky.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> >.>
> 
> Poo, it no worky.


Well, the tournament ended 3 days ago







What do you expect?


----------



## Shadeh

I dont mean to be a jerk but I'm patiently waiting for the day protoss gets nerfed. Sure I'm only high diamond but all I hear are complaints about them. I find the decisions they decided to make in hits to protoss are ****ed up. Your units can be swiped out cause you didn't expect that big of an army? Slow them down. What? Still too much? Mass recall.

Oh **** 16 marines at my mineral line. Photon overcharge. High templars and archon's? Sure I'll mass ghosts to emp them and do my mmm. Wait wut??? 3 colossus all of a sudden too despite me denying his base for a while now? Mass Viki.. Oh **** its too late. I'm sorry but protoss is so ****ed up at the moment it isn't even funny. I have to invest in so much micro and I need to be 2 bases ahead to try to guarantee my win, sadly its also the only race where you feel so much ahead of and then all of a sudden a hand full of **** pops out of nowhere decimating your army.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I dont mean to be a jerk but I'm patiently waiting for the day protoss gets nerfed. Sure I'm only high diamond but all I hear are complaints about them. I find the decisions they decided to make in hits to protoss are ****ed up. Your units can be swiped out cause you didn't expect that big of an army? Slow them down. What? Still too much? Mass recall.
> 
> Oh **** 16 marines at my mineral line. Photon overcharge. High templars and archon's? Sure I'll mass ghosts to emp them and do my mmm. Wait wut??? 3 colossus all of a sudden too despite me denying his base for a while now? Mass Viki.. Oh **** its too late. I'm sorry but protoss is so ****ed up at the moment it isn't even funny. I have to invest in so much micro and I need to be 2 bases ahead to try to guarantee my win, sadly its also the only race where you feel so much ahead of and then all of a sudden a hand full of **** pops out of nowhere decimating your army.


I believe they just need to make Vikings be able to fire while moving (a jet fighter having to stop in order to fire? Really?). That would make Colossi less functional, which will make the bio ball overall stronger without making the Protoss boring to play. Photon overcharge is a neat feature, even though I play Terran. But there is a balance issue, and it became obvious last nigh. So, LucifroN, one of the best players in the world, can beat Stephano 2-0 but fails 2-0 to.. DuckDuck? Who? Just a random Protoss player.


----------



## fashric

Lol he isn't just a random protoss player http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Duckdeok. But i agree that toss (im diamond terran on eu) at my level feels very overpowered at all stages of the game and something needs to be changed. Mainly with the MSC it just stops terran punishing any early greedy protoss play at all. There are also so many early pressure builds available to them vs terran that it makes you head spin trying to prepare for them even with good scouting with a reaper.


----------



## Cyro999

Duckdeok is more of a name than Lucifron.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Duckdeok is more of a name than Lucifron.


ok


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> On the other hand, with totally wrong builds, even godly mechanics won't save you. I'd say they are equally important.


Completely wrong below master league. Mechanics are everything. All that matters up until Diamondish is that you can make more stuff quicker than your opponent and never get supply blocked. For example I watched Puckk/Leiya beat a Diamond Terran player using ONLY sentries. That should never happen. Or Filter using only marines. Or any streamer smurfing using the silliest of strategies and unit compositions destroy their opponents.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Completely wrong below master league. Mechanics are everything. All that matters up until Diamondish is that you can make more stuff quicker than your opponent and never get supply blocked. For example I watched Puckk/Leiya beat a Diamond Terran player using ONLY sentries. That should never happen. Or Filter using only marines. Or any streamer smurfing using the silliest of strategies and unit compositions destroy their opponents.


point taken


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I don't think production is the problem with Protoss. It's units' expendability. TvZ is such a good matchup because both races can trade units during the whole game and eventually overcome the opponent with superior economy or through favorable trades. Since protoss units are so expensive you pretty much have to retain them throughout the whole game. You loose your sentries early on or few of your colossi get sniped - gg. Usually in PvX matchups the game is decided in one big engagement which is just not very entertaining.


i agree the best matchup has ALWAYS been TvZ. both armys evaporate most of the time with someone retaining something like medivacs or a few tanks/marines mutas/infestors.

in beta we ALL said "best matchup is TvZ but they kept forcefields in the game... was such a bad move. i wish they replaced sentry and collosi with "easily replaced" decent tech units because forcefields make armys get crushed for or against the protoss. its RARELY a "close fight"

btw naniwa today right? hes the last american left









mechanics are not EVERYTHING. my friend of 5 days playing the game, hes a BAD gamer in general, can win vs diamond players with 2 base collosi assuming the terran doesnt harass him AT ALL lol.


----------



## Hatchet

Im pretty sure he is sweedish.....

I hope he goes through, but it would mean another Toss in the round of 8.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatchet*
> 
> Im pretty sure he is sweedish.....
> 
> I hope he goes through, but it would mean another Toss in the round of 8.


thats the joke lol

also to the guy complaining about toss in diamond.... please dont but...

toss is clearly the best race atm. i play all 3 and i admit i favor zerg as i value it as the hardest race but yeh toss is just dumb. i can lose to low master toss with 40 apm as terran just because he ONLY needs to place 1 cannon and photon overcharge to deter EVERY drop. also going straight into storm is so good lol. retreat storming is too good and terran openers are a joke. "fast drop widow mine" wooo yaay exciting


----------



## Hatchet

Well, he just made that cheese proxy barracks from MMA look a bit foolish. GG indeed.


----------



## ronnin426850

Do you think the next expansion will require HotS?


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Do you think the next expansion will require HotS?


I wouldn't think so, but regardless I'm very excited for it. Getting to play as Zeratul more will be awesome!


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Do you think the next expansion will require HotS?


I doubt it. So excited for it









I get just as excited about the single player as the multiplayer. I got every achievement for HotS within 2 days.


----------



## fashric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> thats the joke lol
> 
> also to the guy complaining about toss in diamond.... please dont but...


You say this and then go on to basically agree with everything I wrote. Ok....


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> You say this and then go on to basically agree with everything I wrote. Ok....


er i meant the joke was naniwa was american. anyone not korean is foreign hope of his country

2 friends just started playing and my teaching them inspired me to maybe make videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UdNdhO-P2g

anyone got any feedback, can be appreciated

this is for new players, lower level players. i used to coach a bit in WOL and people always had problems with "knowing what to do next" kinda thing but thats my general goal to teach "how to know what to next by your own logic"

my voice sounds very dif lol


----------



## ronnin426850

In WoL TvT how do you break a tank line guarded by marines?..


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> In WoL TvT how do you break a tank line guarded by marines?..


u land vikings and drop scvs on the tanks


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I believe they just need to make Vikings be able to fire while moving (a jet fighter having to stop in order to fire? Really?). That would make Colossi less functional, which will make the bio ball overall stronger without making the Protoss boring to play. Photon overcharge is a neat feature, even though I play Terran. But there is a balance issue, and it became obvious last nigh. So, LucifroN, one of the best players in the world, can beat Stephano 2-0 but fails 2-0 to.. DuckDuck? Who? Just a random Protoss player.


To be homest i felt something is wrong a long time ago. But i was always thinking protoss players have not adapted well and thats why they are not winning tournaments. Bull**** is finally starting to shine though which is a good thing. I remember an interview with David Kim where he stated tvp may slighty seem to favor the protoss or did he say terrain seems underpowered? Regarsless.. Get this **** needed. Sick of losing games I deserved to win


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> u land vikings and drop scvs on the tanks


Vikings get killed by the marines long before they could start firing after landing


----------



## fashric

Nukes or seeker missles are very effective.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> In WoL TvT how do you break a tank line guarded by marines?..


Some very good advice I've seen Yume/Optikdream GM terran say is in a tank standoff situation you take 20% of your army and drop the enemy base to pull them out of position.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Some very good advice I've seen Yume/Optikdream GM terran say is in a tank standoff situation you take 20% of your army and drop the enemy base to pull them out of position.


Ah, that's a good one! Thanks!

The other advices weren't very useful to me, because marine + tank is very low on the tech tree, and I can't counter it with high-tech units, I don't have the time to tech up to them.. What I was trying to do is just have more and out-micro him. Didn't work


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Well, the tournament ended 3 days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you expect?


It was over when i asked. I expected a VOD if it was already over.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ah, that's a good one! Thanks!
> 
> The other advices weren't very useful to me, because marine + tank is very low on the tech tree, and I can't counter it with high-tech units, I don't have the time to tech up to them.. What I was trying to do is just have more and out-micro him. Didn't work


i was just trolling about the viking scv thing because i thought u were

least micro intensive way to beat a marine tank standoff

- take air control and make battleruisers or just banshees and ravens (point defense drone is op)

more micro intensive

- drop base with on the production and continue to trade cost effectively while reducing the enemy ability to reproduce or trade cost effectively (aka sending large amounts of units to deal with a massive drop in the production facilitys)

fun way to beat marine tank stand offs

- land mass barracks at the same time in front of tanks and just reposition for a hard trade
- scan and drop large amounts of mules on marines and tanks


----------



## Jeci

Hey guys, hit me up if you need a +1 for 3v3 or 4v4: Jeci | 219


----------



## Pwntastic

I have been keeping up with WCS Korea streams but i haven't been able to play in the past few months. Where is a good place to find up-to-date build orders?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pwntastic*
> 
> I have been keeping up with WCS Korea streams but i haven't been able to play in the past few months. Where is a good place to find up-to-date build orders?


Just watch VODs of pro players and study their builds.

Liquidpedia, GosuBuilds and IMBAbuilds have some but they aren't up to date and/or there aren't many to choose from.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It was over when i asked. I expected a VOD if it was already over.


The moment you asked I was still watching it live. And it wasn't even the final


----------



## ronnin426850

There are just those days when I can't be contained







10 games played today, 1 loss. Most unranked, only 1 game ranked, win







Listening to Enforcer help great deal


----------



## FrankoNL

can someone link me the go to build in zvz right now? I used to do muta's but it turned into roach vs roach. I don't have a good BO for that. Does anyone have one?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> can someone link me the go to build in zvz right now? I used to do muta's but it turned into roach vs roach. I don't have a good BO for that. Does anyone have one?


9 : Overlord
14 : Spawning Pool
16 : Hatchery
16 : Extractor
15 : Overlord
@100% Spawning Pool : Queen and 2 pairs of Zerglings (these lings are for scouting purposes and map control, don't lose them!)
@100 Gas : Metabolic Boost
24 : Roach Warren
24 : Overlord

From here just play the game out depending on what you scout. There are 4 key things in Roach vs Roach -
1. Upgrades, you fall behind you lose. When you have identical units upgrades make much more of a difference.
2. Taking your 3rd, the way you see a lot of RvR games go is that the person who takes their 3rd first and can hold it will just win pretty easily.
3. Higher roach count, obviously. Scout consistently so you know when you can drone, get as far ahead in eco as you can then you will just be able to out produce him








4. Positioning, getting the better concave can win you the game. Go into unit tester and put 50 roaches vs 50 roaches, one army in a ball and the other spread out in an arc, you'll be surprised how much of a difference it makes.


----------



## FrankoNL

thank you! So there is no early baneling nest for safety?


----------



## 13321G4

Or you could follow the dong's example and six pool every JvZ


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> can someone link me the go to build in zvz right now? I used to do muta's but it turned into roach vs roach. I don't have a good BO for that. Does anyone have one?


zvz is the exact same as it was in WoL with the very small exception to transitioning from muta to swarm host

you want to drone drone drone all while having a bane nest and 2-3 banes at home while scouting with 4-6 lings in front. building a roach warren once you start to get saturated on your 2nd (crystals) you literally cannot die to a slow roach push so drone and take lair quickly and keep tabs on his production.

if the zerg surprise sends lings, banes will easily defend just add some wall structures like evo chamber and spines + morph more banes and threaten a counter at his main. if he goes roach... same deal except you can mass roaches if you like. the reason slow roach shouldnt win is simply that slow roaches are "all in." by making roaches second, you are higher in drone count and closer as the defender to resupply. add in the fact that you further stall pushes with lings in front and you should easily hold and prob counter attack with superior econ and just outright win the game

muta is great at stomping some games from players who dont get lair quickly but generally speaking a good zerg builds 4-6 queens and wont even need hydras right away easily holding and getting ahead. i wouldnt recommend muta

my zvzs are mostly quickly saturating 3 bases and just trading roaches, its pretty skilless so i try to switch things up with 2 early gas mass bane busts to stress micro which even gm zergs seem to lack...

just scout well and drone hard, you can get 55+ drones before 8mins EASILY and just max out/respond based on what you see. too many zergs are not constantly darting in and out and fall to early roach/ling aggression. its better to add banes and drone like a madman then play the "meta counter" game and assume hes doing the same thing, skip on banes, and die to some pooled larve nonsense


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> thank you! So there is no early baneling nest for safety?


It depends on what you scout, if you think he's going to be aggressive with ling bane then you can either throw down a Baneling Nest when you have 50 gas after getting ling speed or you can get a spine(s) and try and hold out until you get roaches out.


----------



## Yukss

Hi.. just move to orlando fl.. is any of you guys live near by?


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> zvz is the exact same as it was in WoL with the very small exception to transitioning from muta to swarm host
> 
> you want to drone drone drone all while having a bane nest and 2-3 banes at home while scouting with 4-6 lings in front. building a roach warren once you start to get saturated on your 2nd (crystals) you literally cannot die to a slow roach push so drone and take lair quickly and keep tabs on his production.
> 
> if the zerg surprise sends lings, banes will easily defend just add some wall structures like evo chamber and spines + morph more banes and threaten a counter at his main. if he goes roach... same deal except you can mass roaches if you like. the reason slow roach shouldnt win is simply that slow roaches are "all in." by making roaches second, you are higher in drone count and closer as the defender to resupply. add in the fact that you further stall pushes with lings in front and you should easily hold and prob counter attack with superior econ and just outright win the game
> 
> muta is great at stomping some games from players who dont get lair quickly but generally speaking a good zerg builds 4-6 queens and wont even need hydras right away easily holding and getting ahead. i wouldnt recommend muta
> 
> my zvzs are mostly quickly saturating 3 bases and just trading roaches, its pretty skilless so i try to switch things up with 2 early gas mass bane busts to stress micro which even gm zergs seem to lack...
> 
> just scout well and drone hard, you can get 55+ drones before 8mins EASILY and just max out/respond based on what you see. too many zergs are not constantly darting in and out and fall to early roach/ling aggression. its better to add banes and drone like a madman then play the "meta counter" game and assume hes doing the same thing, skip on banes, and die to some pooled larve nonsense


I get all inned a lot. especially the: 6/10 pool with spines attack ... always die to that.

What i do now is mostly the first 100 gas into speed. Next 50 into banelingnest. 100 gas after that: Lair. Then i get a roach warren, 2 evo chambers and saturate all my gasses. After this i try to go for a third.


----------



## kelc

anyone up for some sc2 games?


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kelc*
> 
> anyone up for some sc2 games?


2v2's, 3v3's, and 4v4's?


----------



## eosgreen

taeja innovation lol.... so good


----------



## CravinR1

I'm up for some games

Cravin
911


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I'm up for some games
> 
> should watch WCS god that last game was the best sc2 ever played


----------



## Yukss

zup guys.. anyone in the orlando area ? just move in ..


----------



## KevinV

WCS Season 2 Finals - Final Day

http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_europe

Terran in final

will it be TvP or TvZ?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KevinV*
> 
> WCS Season 2 Finals - Final Day
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_europe
> 
> Terran in final
> 
> will it be TvP or TvZ?


Please help me understand those tournaments. I watch the streams every time, but I don't understand how this relates to the regional WCS series that were on last month. What does "season 2 final" mean? How does all of this relate to the global finals at Blizzcon? If someone can, please explain how the entire scheme works, because I'm lost


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Please help me understand those tournaments. I watch the streams every time, but I don't understand how this relates to the regional WCS series that were on last month. What does "season 2 final" mean? How does all of this relate to the global finals at Blizzcon? If someone can, please explain how the entire scheme works, because I'm lost


At the end of each season top 5 players from each league (6 from hosting region) compete in the season finals. At the end of the year top 16 WCS players (points wise) will compete in the global finals.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series


----------



## eosgreen

trust me no one really gets the sc2 tourny anything these days lol

btw anyone have a 6300 that plays sc2 currently







need to test something


----------



## ronnin426850

YAAAY!!


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> YAAAY!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Gratz!


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> YAAAY!!


How many points did it take?


----------



## Anti!!

lol it is not the points that promote you.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> How many points did it take?


I have no idea, I had 10 wins 1 loss in silver, the 11th win got me promoted.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I have no idea, I had 10 wins 1 loss in silver, the 11th win got me promoted.


Okay. I'm at 20 wins, 9 losses, and have been bouncing back and forth between #1 and #2 silver.


----------



## Cyro999

Division rank is almost entirely meaningless, same as points, if you want any idea of your MMR standings then just check every opponent you hit and the league they played against in their last 5 ranked 1v1s. After a dozen games you can get a pretty good idea


----------



## FrankoNL

No, but is a indication on how you are doing. I mean, a lot of points means that you are doing well. If you are not constantly in bonus pool


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> lol it is not the points that promote you.


Actually during season locks if you achieve x amount of points you will be promoted at the beginning of the new season.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battle.net_Leagues


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Actually during season locks if you achieve x amount of points you will be promoted at the beginning of the new season.
> 
> http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battle.net_Leagues


Not sure that is entirely true. I finished last season in plat with ~1000 points and wasnt put in diamond. I think thats just an estimate on your Win/Loss ratio for promotions.


----------



## poroboszcz

Diamond to master 900 points. I was 895 last season :S


----------



## eosgreen

its not the points but ive found they are a good indication

if you are not at a 70+ percent win rate then going by those points you can assume promotions around that time. when i came back to HOTS i was really rusty and had a 60 percent win rate and got masters at exactly 900 points, after i got better and farmed up a new acc with a 72 percent win rate i was promoted almost instantly to masters. it just depends how well you are doing


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> its not the points but ive found they are a good indication
> 
> if you are not at a 70+ percent win rate then going by those points you can assume promotions around that time. when i came back to HOTS i was really rusty and had a 60 percent win rate and got masters at exactly 900 points, after i got better and farmed up a new acc with a 72 percent win rate i was promoted almost instantly to masters. it just depends how well you are doing


Correct. It highly depends on your win ratio. The points will always be in line with your win ratio. It helps with judging how close a promotion may be if your win ratio is around 60% or higher.


----------



## ronnin426850

I suck in gold. So bad...


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I suck in gold. So bad...


I suggest you make a goal... otherwise the game becomes very time consuming and tedious. I personally quit after mid-masters and I'm glad I made masters a goal. Saved me time and let me quit in peace.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> I suggest you make a goal... otherwise the game becomes very time consuming and tedious. I personally quit after mid-masters and I'm glad I made masters a goal. Saved me time and let me quit in peace.


But I don't want to quit!







I love the game and plan to play it in the retirement home


----------



## eosgreen

yeh the answer to getting good at anything is to do it

my friends all want to be good but quit because its not instant gratification like moba games. you can be really bad but get fed a few games and "live for that moment"

in sc2 if you are not very good you will never ever dominate a game vs people who are your exact level. you may win but never dominate in that same unstoppable way and often times lose badly to those ahead of you. in league a much better player can be denied kills by "playing safe" and the skill gap is further reduced by teamates. in sc2 its just you and that often makes ppl hard on themselves

play play play, watch streams play


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> yeh the answer to getting good at anything is to do it
> 
> my friends all want to be good but quit because its not instant gratification like moba games. you can be really bad but get fed a few games and "live for that moment"
> 
> in sc2 if you are not very good you will never ever dominate a game vs people who are your exact level. you may win but never dominate in that same unstoppable way and often times lose badly to those ahead of you. in league a much better player can be denied kills by "playing safe" and the skill gap is further reduced by teamates. in sc2 its just you and that often makes ppl hard on themselves
> 
> play play play, watch streams play


Well, with unnoticed scouting you can dominate other players in some cases. Like shutting down a 10 minute roach all-in with several Immortals and good force fields.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> Well, with unnoticed scouting you can dominate other players in some cases. Like shutting down a 10 minute roach all-in with several Immortals and good force fields.


huh?


----------



## Anti!!

Same here. Masters was my goal. I would have liked to be a solid high masters, but I just dont have the time. It is also looking like our famed terran player has quit since the new born also. Them kids change it all. I have two and still was able to get masters. GASP! amazing really.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Same here. Masters was my goal. I would have liked to be a solid high masters, but I just dont have the time. It is also looking like our famed terran player has quit since the new born also. Them kids change it all. I have two and still was able to get masters. GASP! amazing really.


Good. I'm not too old. *MotivatedRockyFace*


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Good. I'm not too old. *MotivatedRockyFace*


nah, and old isnt even the issue, its just the time. There still is only 24hrs in a day. If you have a real career, want to be part of your family's life, and care about your health (ie sleep, and exercise) you just wont have the time needed for anything above masters. I managed, but something always suffers. Plus, it takes the fun out of it. So, I'll just let my profile show I was once a has been and that helps my ego when i get trash talked in team games. haha

:/


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> nah, and old isnt even the issue, its just the time. There still is only 24hrs in a day. If you have a real career, want to be part of your family's life, and care about your health (ie sleep, and exercise) you just wont have the time needed for anything above masters. I managed, but something always suffers. Plus, it takes the fun out of it. So, I'll just let my profile show I was once a has been and that helps my ego when i get trash talked in team games. haha
> 
> :/


ur problem is that u didnt make 100miwion dolla

then u can not work and play sc2


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> ur problem is that u didnt make 100miwion dolla
> 
> then u can not work and play sc2


If I won the lottery or something and had that much money, I would start a business rather than playing SC2 all day.


----------



## Shimme

Anyone else see MC's post on the state of TvZ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427728


----------



## connectwise

Has mc switched races or something?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Has mc switched races or something?


My thoughts too...

"I liked TvZ in WoL" Really? When 1 of every 10 Terrans and 6 of every 10 Zergs made it to the finals?

Although he's right about the lack of diversity. You have exactly 1 build countering the opponent's build. That's not interesting.

edit: and he's dead on right on 2) and 3).


----------



## Cyro999

He probably doesn't mean after the queen patch


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> He probably doesn't mean after the queen patch


What queen patch?


----------



## 13321G4

Queen ranged was buffed from 3 to 5 which allowed for a easier defence against early (bunker) pressure.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Queen ranged was buffed from 3 to 5 which allowed for a easier defence against early (bunker) pressure.


When did that happen? I missed it...


----------



## Cyro999

Not really just bunker pressure, everything. It completely changed the entire tvz meta through knock on effect of rewriting early and midgame and gave terrans a very very hard year. It means queens could deal with hellions much better, push them back off creep (hellions used to have more range and speed than queens) and deal with everything in general much better

http://i.imgur.com/0fwpyh.png

6queen style became dominant and terran switched from reactor hellion expo most games to a variety of stuff before transitioning into dieing

It was probably the most controversial balance change in the history of sc2, if i remember correctly the GSL season right after the change the matchup went like 70/30 or worse in favor of zerg in ZvT


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Not really just bunker pressure, everything. It completely changed the entire tvz meta through knock on effect of rewriting early and midgame and gave terrans a very very hard year. It means queens could deal with hellions much better, push them back off creep (hellions used to have more range and speed than queens) and deal with everything in general much better
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/0fwpyh.png
> 
> 6queen style became dominant and terran switched from reactor hellion expo most games to a variety of stuff before transitioning into dieing
> 
> It was probably the most controversial balance change in the history of sc2, if i remember correctly the GSL season right after the change the matchup went like 70/30 or worse in favor of zerg in ZvT


Oh so that's from more than a year ago? Explains why I didn't notice it


----------



## Cyro999

Yea it played a large part in zerg being dominant for the last year of WOL. They had an edge in PvZ and the unbeatable composition + infestor midgame and the queen patch completely rewrote TvZ and ZvT just because of early safety to do a lot more and new economy scales


----------



## eosgreen

basically hellions were "too hard to counter" and really beat anything z threw at them. if they went roach all in it was scouted and bunkers made, if they went ling you laughed and killed 40 lings for the price of 6 helions and if they tried to spread creep or NOT make these roaches and lings the helions could kill queens who were range 3 and then the drones or just run by.

once they buffed queen range it became useless to do helion aggression for a while because terrans felt "whatever tech i do i get crushed so just be greedier" which is the current state of the game just with widow mines. 4-6 queens beat early rax non stim pressure (a common build) as well as banshees and helions. it was just too solid a defense and because zergs late game army was good back then having such a solid non invested def early meant almost assured broodlords and infestors were gonna be out and they favored zerg heavily over terrans viking comp (which was the only viable comp after snipe was nerfed)

i think mc doesnt need to play a race to understand and appreciate its matchup. hes a pro and what people dont get is imbalance in 1 matchup hurts others. for example everyones talking about nerfing protoss tech and buffing gateway and removing FF. if that happens because PvT is doing poorly what effects does that have on PvZ or then maybe terrans get changed in TvP and now TvZ is more in T favor


----------



## Cyro999

It was really the early game control that blizzard aparantly didn't like. The queen buff allowed zerg to defend a third hatchery taken before gas completely safely within reason, whereas before, reactor hellion expand was containing creep and the zerg as there was no tier unit that could contest them (queens slower and outranged, spine crawlers can't move easily, zerglings vs hellions, roaches slow and hurt zerg a ton if they made a lot)
Quote:


> i think mc doesnt need to play a race to understand and appreciate its matchup.


MC is at least high master on korea server with terran, if i could put down a bet i'd say he's at least top ~99.6% terran globally, he can make a stupid blog post about the matchup if he wants to


----------



## Anti!!

As a zerg personally I felt the queen buff was more of a luxury than needed balance. I loved the challenge of low range queens. It only required a good awareness and control. I felt it made it more interesting while trying to macro.

I just didnt like the change. I also dreaded the inevitable complaints about zerg being op.


----------



## DoomDash

Queen buff was one of the worst changes, if not the worst change in all of SCII.

PS, I've been thinking about it, and I think I liked WoL better than HotS.


----------



## eosgreen

most of us liked WOL better myself included. what did hots even add?

- hellbats (didnt change ANYTHING for mech) nerfed hellbats so no one uses them for cheese anymore.

- widow mines broke ZvT even terrans admit its dumb

- viper effective unit but too effective on lair tech so had to be put on hive. now its kinda a gimicy all in late game deathball style unit that doesnt see as much use as we thought it would

- swarm host. incredibly powerful at times and at others incredibly awful. it abuses free spawning units a stupid thing broods had and in certain numbers becomes very hard to deal with. on the complete opposite end of the spectrum on a large map they are HORRIBLE. just avoid the locust and kill bases. overall an awful unit

- MSC. think we can all agree its stupid op
- Tempest. was ORIGINALLY if people remember intended for anti muta. the demos all showed it had cleave damage and was the "anti muta" tech toss needed. turns out protoss were just being awful players and missusing pheonix and shortly into hots stargate pheonix openers were mega popular, stopped muta basetrade in its tracks and instead of being scared of 2 spore crawlers? they actually grab drones and take a few hits making them very effective at all stages of the game
- oracle. gimicy unit that serves 2 functions that are very similar. eco cheese, all in cheese. its "stargate detection" role is overshadowed by its ability to 1hit mineral lines. sure it allows stargate to function in PvP for detection but you basically scout the tech anyway and cripple them economically at times. i believe in the EU WCS the stargate openers with oracles had a 66+ percent win rate in the Bo3s final 8.

at the end of the day rants aside the game feels exactly the same. im not playing the game ANY dif. i dont all in toss, i dont all in terran, i dont all in zerg. none of the new units change the comps up one bit. hydra ling is the CLOSEST the game came to change in standard comps. you NEVER saw lings vs collosi but hydra ling does well and its actually nice since they are the 2 most zergy units bit its still niche

side note are there any masters terrans here? i wana test a crazy new zvt idea i had


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> most of us liked WOL better myself included. what did hots even add?
> 
> - hellbats (didnt change ANYTHING for mech) nerfed hellbats so no one uses them for cheese anymore.
> 
> - widow mines broke ZvT even terrans admit its dumb
> 
> - viper effective unit but too effective on lair tech so had to be put on hive. now its kinda a gimicy all in late game deathball style unit that doesnt see as much use as we thought it would
> 
> - swarm host. incredibly powerful at times and at others incredibly awful. it abuses free spawning units a stupid thing broods had and in certain numbers becomes very hard to deal with. on the complete opposite end of the spectrum on a large map they are HORRIBLE. just avoid the locust and kill bases. overall an awful unit
> 
> - MSC. think we can all agree its stupid op
> - Tempest. was ORIGINALLY if people remember intended for anti muta. the demos all showed it had cleave damage and was the "anti muta" tech toss needed. turns out protoss were just being awful players and missusing pheonix and shortly into hots stargate pheonix openers were mega popular, stopped muta basetrade in its tracks and instead of being scared of 2 spore crawlers? they actually grab drones and take a few hits making them very effective at all stages of the game
> - oracle. gimicy unit that serves 2 functions that are very similar. eco cheese, all in cheese. its "stargate detection" role is overshadowed by its ability to 1hit mineral lines. sure it allows stargate to function in PvP for detection but you basically scout the tech anyway and cripple them economically at times. i believe in the EU WCS the stargate openers with oracles had a 66+ percent win rate in the Bo3s final 8.
> 
> at the end of the day rants aside the game feels exactly the same. im not playing the game ANY dif. i dont all in toss, i dont all in terran, i dont all in zerg. none of the new units change the comps up one bit. hydra ling is the CLOSEST the game came to change in standard comps. you NEVER saw lings vs collosi but hydra ling does well and its actually nice since they are the 2 most zergy units bit its still niche
> 
> side note are there any masters terrans here? i wana test a crazy new zvt idea i had


I approve this message.









When HotS was released and all the fans were in constant orgasm, I earned some hate by calling it a patch. And for multiplayer that's what it is. Not to mention how many times Blizz changed their ideas about Terran in HotS... Remember the Shredder?









The new SP missions are the only thing that earns the title "expansion" in this mess. And watching pro gamers was much more fun in WoL too! Now we have technically 2 options for every matchup that we see over and over on every tourney...


----------



## Mr357

Maybe it hasn't been said since it's "not really that bad," but I think taking away siege mode as research and giving it right off the bat was huge. Without lots of upgrades and greedy expansions PvT is a nightmare for me. Since HotS I've never beaten a Terran before the 14-15 minute mark.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> Maybe it hasn't been said since it's "not really that bad," but I think taking away siege mode as research and giving it right off the bat was huge. Without lots of upgrades and greedy expansions PvT is a nightmare for me. Since HotS I've never beaten a Terran before the 14-15 minute mark.


True, but when you think you it, in WoL tanks were weak. They were barely deserving the name 'tank' IMO - who ever used them in unsieged mode? I've heard they (unsieged) are good vs roach now, but I've not tried it enough to have an opinion...


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> True, but when you think you it, in WoL tanks were weak. They were barely deserving the name 'tank' IMO - who ever used them in unsieged mode? I've heard they (unsieged) are good vs roach now, but I've not tried it enough to have an opinion...


That was exactly my point. Now that siege tanks are good, Terran players have a lot of tools at their disposal, and dominate until the late game.


----------



## eosgreen

no siege tanks are actually bad now. they need small buffs while bio needs small nerfs. the tank is the iconic unit of terran like the hydra is of zerg


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> True, but when you think you it, in WoL tanks were weak.


Siege tanks were iconic in WOL TvZ, they just got phased out later in the matchup especially after metagame changes (stephano pushing fast double ups ling heavy etc) and queen buff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY

they were super core in the matchup for like half of WOL though..


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but when you think you it, in WoL tanks were weak.
> 
> 
> 
> Siege tanks were iconic in WOL TvZ, they just got phased out later in the matchup especially after metagame changes (stephano pushing fast double ups ling heavy etc) and queen buff
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yOw-hYMbDY
> 
> they were super core in the matchup for like half of WOL though..
Click to expand...

all of WoL.

You could either go mech against Z or Bio. Bio was weak late game, mech wasn't.
Tanks messed up banelings like nothing else. So they were used a lot in WoL TvZ.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> all of WoL.
> 
> You could either go mech against Z or Bio. Bio was weak late game, mech wasn't.
> Tanks messed up banelings like nothing else. So they were used a lot in WoL TvZ.


er mech sucked at all stages of WOL compared to bio tank lol. brood infestor DESTROYED mech and mass muta the same


----------



## Cyro999

You say that as if it's a simple case of A vs B though


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You say that as if it's a simple case of A vs B though


im not sure exactly what you mean but there was never a map mech was better then bio tank on because mech struggled just as much as bio if not more vs broods


----------



## ronnin426850

I believe tanks were used in WoL not because they were worthy, but because they were needed. My understanding is that the game is balanced. Like perfectly balanced. And in order to keep it balanced with so many radically different units and strategies, they give the players little choice. Technically every strategy of the opponent has exactly 1 (in rare cases 2) efficient counter that you can do. Tanks were one of those, that's why they were used. But they were pain. Now they are used because people like them, not because they absolutely need them, at least that's the impression I have.


----------



## Shadeh

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427796&currentpage=3

Interesting, according to statistics Protoss has the highest winrates. I know it's eventually going to be overpowered. As a terran i could write a whole list to complain about. Does zerg feel the same about terran though? Stats do claim so.

As it goes now it's P>T>Z>P

I don't care what happens, i just want a balanced match up vs zerg and ESPECIALLY vs protoss. (If mines are too OP then it should be nerfed) - I SAY THAT ALTHUOGH I LOVE WM!

Scrwe you toss!


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> im not sure exactly what you mean but there was never a map mech was better then bio tank on because mech struggled just as much as bio if not more vs broods


That's why it was pretty core with mech based styles to do a pretty all in timing before broods. You can't look at mech like some army composition when using a factory core for army units had a whole different meta and way of playing out the matchup. It's not like both players sat on their asses for 20 minutes on 80 workers and built whatever units they wanted, then attack moved into eachother
Quote:


> I believe tanks were used in WoL not because they were worthy, but because they were needed.


They were really powerful, marine/tank was considered almost OP because it was really hard for zerg to trade cost effectively after the meta was kinda forced onto primarily reactor+factory cc, usually 4-6 hellions then straight marine tank into a series of timing pushes and medivacs for dropping to harass and pull zerg out of position, the Z didn't really have a good answer for it. They became much much less powerful when zerg were able to take a third before gas in WOL with the queen buff, instead of the previous standard of taking third much much later and being forced onto way lower economy because they couldn't deal with the hellions well

Terran was kinda known for expanding towards the zerg and death rallies with marine/tank, and it was considered pretty stupidly broken by some with gold bases towards the opponent and especially mules on gold (+50% income so about 840 minerals per minute from the mules alone if you had 3 orbitals and then a planetary at the gold) and there was some nerfs targetting specifically that type of style


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427796&currentpage=3
> 
> Interesting, according to statistics Protoss has the highest winrates. I know it's eventually going to be overpowered. As a terran i could write a whole list to complain about. Does zerg feel the same about terran though? Stats do claim so.
> 
> As it goes now it's P>T>Z>P
> 
> I don't care what happens, i just want a balanced match up vs zerg and ESPECIALLY vs protoss. (If mines are too OP then it should be nerfed) - I SAY THAT ALTHUOGH I LOVE WM!
> 
> Scrwe you toss!


terran beating toss is so much easier then zerg beating terran atm. i say this as a guy who plays random in masters and macros. zerg and terran are my best races too. i think terrans STILL refuse to get ghosts. mass ghost MMM viking is actually pretty amazing. the trick is to keep stalling and replace with ghosts. find yourself with 10+ ghosts vs toss and you start to wreck them


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> terran beating toss is so much easier then zerg beating terran atm. i say this as a guy who plays random in masters and macros. zerg and terran are my best races too. i think terrans STILL refuse to get ghosts. mass ghost MMM viking is actually pretty amazing. the trick is to keep stalling and replace with ghosts. find yourself with 10+ ghosts vs toss and you start to wreck them










Players in lower leagues are generally awful with Ghosts. I drop feedbacks on them before they can EMP me.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Players in lower leagues are generally awful with Ghosts. I drop feedbacks on them before they can EMP me.


well this isnt true because if your skill level is capable of feedbacking and you are the same level of people who are NOT feedbacking or using EMP then you are...

A - way better then them
B - lacking in other areas so then it shouldnt matter if he has ghosts or not

EMP is FAR easier to use then feedback and having 10 ghosts is hard to feedback especially when they can stealth and "low" level players may not always have overseers. the fact is that people at high levels seem to
not make ghosts as well and its a major problem

my point is its not a skill issue, terrans are lazy. there is literally NO army comp that does not want ghosts in it vs toss. even mech in an ideal world will use ghosts


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> terran beating toss is so much easier then zerg beating terran atm. i say this as a guy who plays random in masters and macros. zerg and terran are my best races too. i think terrans STILL refuse to get ghosts. mass ghost MMM viking is actually pretty amazing. the trick is to keep stalling and replace with ghosts. find yourself with 10+ ghosts vs toss and you start to wreck them


The problem with mass ghost mmm viking is that vs a protoss deathball you need 3 control groups, crazy control and positioning along with well timed/placed spellcasts vs 1a, ttttt. TvP is a total drag lategame, hence the innovation scv allin trend we seen some time ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> well this isnt true because if your skill level is capable of feedbacking and you are the same level of people who are NOT feedbacking or using EMP then you are...
> 
> A - way better then them
> B - lacking in other areas so then it shouldnt matter if he has ghosts or not
> 
> EMP is FAR easier to use then feedback and having 10 ghosts is hard to feedback especially when they can stealth and "low" level players may not always have overseers. the fact is that people at high levels seem to
> not make ghosts as well and its a major problem
> 
> my point is its not a skill issue, terrans are lazy. there is literally NO army comp that does not want ghosts in it vs toss. even mech in an ideal world will use ghosts


I have no idea what you are talking about. Most all master and higher players use ghosts in TvP. They are essential and without them it's a near guaranteed loss.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> The problem with mass ghost mmm viking is that vs a protoss deathball you need 3 control groups, crazy control and positioning along with well timed/placed spellcasts vs 1a, ttttt. TvP is a total drag lategame, hence the innovation scv allin trend we seen some time ago.
> I have no idea what you are talking about. Most all master and higher players use ghosts in TvP. They are essential and without them it's a near guaranteed loss.


i know its shocking right but the truth be told most terrans get ghosts around 20mins and they need them around 16. while its true controlling the terran death ball is MUCH harder then the toss it doesnt change the fact that i see in EVERY league most terrans are not using ghosts and when they do not enough of them


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> i know its shocking right but the truth be told most terrans get ghosts around 20mins and they need them around 16. while its true controlling the terran death ball is MUCH harder then the toss it doesnt change the fact that i see in EVERY league most terrans are not using ghosts and when they do not enough of them


16 minutes? You mean 14 at the latest.

Most Protoss players get their Templar Archives when they are building their 3rd Colossus if they are playing standard. 3rd Colossus starts building at about 11 minutes, factor in the time to get storm and for the archives to finish and there will be HT with enough energy for storm by 13:30-14:00.

That's assuming they go Colossus as their first 3rd tier tech which not all players do, just most, some do go HT first.


----------



## Shadeh

Wow, i love your argument.

Beating protoss is easier for terran than it is for zerg to beat terran.

That's just irrelevant yada yada bull**** that doesn't contribute to anything. Protoss OP, get over it.

That's like me saying: "a horse is faster than a pony "

and then you walk in saying:
"correct, a horse is faster than a pony but lets not forget that a cheetah is faster than a horse" what the flying f.. does that contribute to anything


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Wow, i love your argument.
> 
> Beating protoss is easier for terran than it is for zerg to beat terran.
> 
> That's just irrelevant yada yada bull**** that doesn't contribute to anything. Protoss OP, get over it.
> 
> That's like me saying: "a horse is faster than a pony "
> 
> and then you walk in saying:
> "correct, a horse is faster than a pony but lets not forget that a cheetah is faster than a horse" what the flying f.. does that contribute to anything


ha, good one!


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndyM95*
> 
> 16 minutes? You mean 14 at the latest.
> 
> Most Protoss players get their Templar Archives when they are building their 3rd Colossus if they are playing standard. 3rd Colossus starts building at about 11 minutes, factor in the time to get storm and for the archives to finish and there will be HT with enough energy for storm by 13:30-14:00.
> 
> That's assuming they go Colossus as their first 3rd tier tech which not all players do, just most, some do go HT first.


yeh but assuming you are dropping and what not they may have to rebuild other things like sentrys and stalkers. obviously your times are not set in stone but as a general rule of thumb terrans need ghosts around that time if they are doing collosi first and obviously earlier if they are doing storm first.

my only point was that anyone who crys about protoss vs terran has never played zer vs terran. you dont know what real imbalance is. terran vs toss is clearly in toss favor but not in a way that feels unwinnable like it does in TvZ for the Z. good terrans outplay the generally lesser skilled protoss because the terran race allows for such outplayings to happen.

my comment isnt any more helpful than "protoss is op". i wish zerg players had drop ships built into the army and high dps units to drop so i could out multi task my opponent where as in other matchups the ability to avoid primary fights which magnify race imbalance are impossible

zerg has to attack into terran widow mines

zerg avoids protoss forcefields with muta basetrade or swarm hosts

terrans cry because they cant just a move and win like the protoss generally do

play better, your race certainly has the tools to do so


----------



## Anti!!

Agreed.

Also, raging and using profanity over such a small discussion is not necessary at all.

In the end these three races are balanced enough that most issues can be overcome by skill improvement and change in strategy. It may not be the strategy you want but in my 13 years of starcraft I have learned that eventually a patch will go your way. So I just usually play and dont complain.


----------



## ronnin426850

It is funny how zergs cry about imbalances when the same people were quite content crushing more skillful terrans in WoL. Suffer now, I say.
"Zerg is OP because with just a *few* *cheap* banes, you can crush 100 supply worth of army"
"Terran should lean to split"
Damn you, Z doesn't need to learn to split! Why did Terran need to be better at mechanics in order to be equal to Zerg?

Have a taste for it now while you lose like T used to lose. You can't really say WM is OP without saying banelings were OP in WoL.

Again, HotS in its current form is a bit boring maybe, but perfectly balanced. Z just needs to learn


----------



## Cyro999

It doesn't matter anyway til at least the point where you can no longer reasonably overcome it by getting better


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It doesn't matter anyway til at least the point where you can no longer reasonably overcome it by getting better


Exxxxactlyyyyy.

Besides im a z. I could care less what terran is. I still roll over 40 percent of them. Which is not awesome I know but good enough for me.

Tell scarlette widow mines are op. She will just raise an eyebrow. I think wm are awesome. I dont think they are broken either. As an enemy you have complete control on what part of the army you allow them to hit. So the cruel irony is zerg just needs to learn how to split and bait wm shots. Ohhhh the irony.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It is funny how zergs cry about imbalances when the same people were quite content crushing more skillful terrans in WoL. Suffer now, I say.
> "Zerg is OP because with just a *few* *cheap* banes, you can crush 100 supply worth of army"
> "Terran should lean to split"
> Damn you, Z doesn't need to learn to split! Why did Terran need to be better at mechanics in order to be equal to Zerg?
> 
> Have a taste for it now while you lose like T used to lose. You can't really say WM is OP without saying banelings were OP in WoL.
> 
> Again, HotS in its current form is a bit boring maybe, but perfectly balanced. Z just needs to learn


yeh zerg had a massive lead vs terran at the end of WOL but dont forget terran also had moments of amazingness. blue flame helions before nerf, ghosts before nerf were GOD MODE and by far the most unbeatable a race has EVER been (it countered broods ultras infestors all in 1... HARD too

the thing about widow mines is that you cant "see them" to split every time and banelings are SUPER costly. there is never a few banes killing 100 supply lol. the entire matchup is a design flaw. the tank sucks and the marine is amazing. the marine cost 50 minerals but i need 50 mineral 25 gas units to kill them most of which actually die before getting to the target. furthermore the medivacs rarely die if the terrans winning which makes no sense since ive invest 2.5k minerals and 2.5k gas just for that sole reason. the retention of zerg units come in the form of the muta which isnt a fighting unit but cost 100/100 and upgrades very slowly. i have to invest massively in anti drop not fighting ANTI DROP because of how good boosted medivac are

design flaws are bad in hots. very frustrating for every race (except toss actually...)

im not saying its impossible to win but there is a reason at a pro level its 55 terran 45 z which is a PRETTY big deal when you consider how effective the roach bane all in is (prob makes it so that terran doesnt have 70 30) widow mines and boost wasnt the answer it was buffing tanks and nerfing something else in bio


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> widow mines and boost wasnt the answer it was buffing tanks and nerfing something else in bio


+1, Blizz needs to lose the gimmicky stuff and give Terrans a TANK.


----------



## ronnin426850

On the WCS stream, why in the seven hells does it say "NEXT MATCH COMING SOON (tm)" ??

Is "Next Match Coming Soon" a Trademark?!?!?!?!


----------



## Cyro999

soon(tm)

blizzard soon

http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> soon(tm)
> 
> blizzard soon
> 
> http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon


Ah..

LOL, that's hilarious


----------



## poroboszcz

Damn, it's a shame Flash is not so good at SC2.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Damn, it's a shame Flash is not so good at SC2.


Yea, it seems all the ones we really root for just fall flat..

At least jaedong is good.


----------



## ronnin426850

Yesterday I decided to try playing with Zerg for a while, just so I can see if they also feel OP on the other end of the stick. They do. With 0 previous experience and not knowing the units or builds, I won several games. Baneling to corruptor + muta. A-move, win... I think I'll switch to toss soon, I'm getting bored of Terran, + it's an uphill climb in WoL. Perhaps I'll find Protoss more fun and easier to play.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally a tank buff. But in all honesty I'm almost ready to just forget HotS ever happened.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Finally a tank buff. But in all honesty I'm almost ready to just forget HotS ever happened.


Was this "tank buff" recent? What exactly was it?


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10038734466#1


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr357*
> 
> Was this "tank buff" recent? What exactly was it?


lurk teamliquid moar


----------



## Mr357

I like the sound of all of those proposals except for the Oracle. If they don't want Protoss to be forced into early defense I'm fine with that, but making Oracles easier to create isn't the right kind of change if you ask me.


----------



## Cyro999

What kind of change would you make?


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> What kind of change would you make?


Make Zealots ranged and able to target air units of course









Honestly I don't know. I've gotten so used to the current state of HotS that I probably wouldn't change anything except those pesky Widow Mines.


----------



## DoomDash

Remove Oracle / Colossus, add Reaver.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Remove Oracle / Colossus, add Reaver.


Remove Colossus?? A sci-fi game with aliens without a War of the Worlds tri-pod looking monstrosity? Nope, leave Colossus where it is please









IMO the changes must be smarter. Like, the Toss took a good long look at the enemy units, and built something to combat them. Like, I'm shocked that Terran hasn't yet built a vehicle with anti-air missiles and defensive short-range flamethrowers. If I were attacked constantly by zerglings and mutas, that's precisely what I'd build.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Remove Colossus?? A sci-fi game with aliens without a War of the Worlds tri-pod looking monstrosity? Nope, leave Colossus where it is please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO the changes must be smarter. Like, the Toss took a good long look at the enemy units, and built something to combat them. Like, I'm shocked that Terran hasn't yet built a vehicle with anti-air missiles and defensive short-range flamethrowers. If I were attacked constantly by zerglings and mutas, that's precisely what I'd build.


A Thor with Hellbat flamethrowers? I imagine it could be done easily through modding.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Remove Colossus?? A sci-fi game with aliens without a War of the Worlds tri-pod looking monstrosity? Nope, leave Colossus where it is please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO the changes must be smarter. Like, the Toss took a good long look at the enemy units, and built something to combat them. Like, I'm shocked that Terran hasn't yet built a vehicle with anti-air missiles and defensive short-range flamethrowers. If I were attacked constantly by zerglings and mutas, that's precisely what I'd build.


Colossus may look good but its terribly designed for how good it is. Reaver was a high skill colossus replacement.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Colossus may look good but its terribly designed for how good it is. Reaver was a high skill colossus replacement.


Yeah, high reward unit for sure. It separated the men from the boys. It was the reason drop ship micro was created. I wish a brood war version was made in the sc2 engine.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yeah, high reward unit for sure. It separated the men from the boys. It was the reason drop ship micro was created. I wish a brood war version was made in the sc2 engine.


There is. Check SC2BW.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> There is. Check SC2BW.


yeh but i wish it had a ladder


----------



## kelc

i am the best sc2 player in the world on OCN


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kelc*
> 
> i am the best sc2 player in the world on OCN


Cool story bro


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kelc*
> 
> i am the best sc2 player in the world on OCN


my entire vent is like gm or high masters gl dawg

o and the are on OCN

HOLLA


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> my entire vent is like gm or high masters gl dawg
> 
> o and the are on OCN
> 
> HOLLA


LOLOLOL

Hummingbird used to be our Random GM. He quit just before the OCN tourney.

The rest of us were sprinkled in Masters.


----------



## DoomDash

I was masters before masters existed ( True story since I was in a top tier Diamond division ).


----------



## connectwise

You should be watching GSL right now. Best zerg in the world vs best protoss in the world.

COMON.

gomtv.net


----------



## Shadeh

I'm so annoyed. I'm so tired, so tired lately and even when i have time. i don't even bother playing sc2 because starcraft 2's mental state of a person is so important. That's the reason i'm going to go to bed today asap so i can be fit for sc2 tomorrow.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> You should be watching GSL right now. Best zerg in the world vs best protoss in the world.
> 
> COMON.
> 
> gomtv.net


Thank you! I didn't know there was an event going on!


----------



## poroboszcz

Hype!
http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_america


----------



## Hatchet

was anyone else watching the decider match that just finished?

Naniwa's stalker positioning was insane. Almost as insane as those forcefields.......

Foreigner @ blizcon!


----------



## poroboszcz

I can't wait for Blizzcon. It has the best lineup of players of all SC2 tournaments so far. Any single match could easily be the finals.

I predict Dear, Soulkey and Innovation or Maru to take top 3 spots, although I'll be rooting for the legends: JD, MVP and MC.


----------



## dkkdjsue123

I seem to have hit a wall (bronze, lol), so I've been playing some custom games. I played against a diamond zerg (I was protoss)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dkkdjsue123*
> 
> I seem to have hit a wall (bronze, lol), so I've been playing some custom games. I played against a diamond zerg (I was protoss)


We should play together, I'm gold, but haven't played for months and essentially I'm bronze level right now


----------



## Shadeh

Damnnnnnnn! I'm so close to becoming a master. I'm top diamond - at the point where i feel like i out macro every single diamond player. It's amazing. I'm nearly facing only masters every game.

My splits are so boss, i just won vs this ranked 24 master.


----------



## Mr357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Damnnnnnnn! I'm so close to becoming a master. I'm top diamond - at the point where i feel like i out macro every single diamond player. It's amazing. I'm nearly facing only masters every game.
> 
> My splits are so boss, i just won vs this ranked 24 master.


Nice!









Keep a good attitude and I imagine you'll be there before you know it.


----------



## DoomDash

Damn this thread is 8 pages back, oh how the mighty have fallen ( to crappy MOBA games no less ).


----------



## Cyro999

It was going to happen anyway, the only way to play sc2 is to sit on a ladder, alone, blocking half of your opponents for flaming you, and play 10-50 games a week to try to rise significantly in skill. It grows meaningless after a while if you're not somehow involved with a group of friends, and battle.net is a social graveyard. You just can't do it for four years - games like LoL at least have a social aspect and some kind of reward structure.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It was going to happen anyway, the only way to play sc2 is to sit on a ladder, alone, blocking half of your opponents for flaming you, and play 10-50 games a week to try to rise significantly in skill. It grows meaningless after a while if you're not somehow involved with a group of friends, and battle.net is a social graveyard. You just can't do it for four years - games like LoL at least have a social aspect and some kind of reward structure.


Yeah but rewards in such a game are meaningless to me. I can agree that it's obviously partly Blizzards fault for making battle.net not nearly as good as it could been, but the game itself is still fantastic.


----------



## Cyro999

Indeed but fantastic grows tiresome after four years, i was a big fan and still post a ton on TL but i don't think it had the social or fun backbone, the only way i saw myself playing for years was on the ladder, holding ~10-50+ games per week to keep skill up. Unranked ladder is exactly the same, only with a post-it note stuck on your monitor over where the MMR display is


----------



## Mwarren

Honestly I lost faith in SC2 one to two years ago. They can't get the game to a balanced state and they made the game less spectator friendly with the huge maps. The game went from being really fun to me to extremely boring ever since they made the maps larger to the point where early aggression is practically dead as terran.

SC2 was in it's prime within the first two years of it's release when it was about non stop action, more army trading, and you could play aggressive early on or passive.

Now players expand without even making a gateway, barracks, or spawning pool, and some will even expand three times right off the bat and most of the games (even pro games) are decided in 1 short battle.......

SC2 is going to continue to die down unless they bring back the smaller maps and balance all of the races out.


----------



## Cyro999

sc2 is currently more balanced than it has ever been, and there's some pretty small maps. Quite a portion of the pool, there's just some bigger ones too

Ohana was too small, it was a mechanical win in WOL PvZ for example where you could safely hit ~8:40 8-sentry 3 immortal moveout and kill zerg period unless you messed up. I had like 80% winrate against zergs far above my level (i was low master) due to that


----------



## DoomDash

I do think the maps got really boring. I think that Blizzard should have treated ladder as more fun than professional. Still, SCII is the best <3.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think the game is better than it's ever been. Except the social aspect. Even the channels that used to be most crowded, like Reddit or Teamliquid, now have like 10 people tops, at least on EU. Pro scene is awesome though. Have you seen this game for example? It's nowhere close to BGH gameplay you seem to believe SC2 has become.


----------



## Mwarren

The game is far from balanced. Terran is supposed to have the strongest early game. Right now Terran does not have a strong early game nor a strong mid game hence why a few pro Terrans have switched to Protoss.

The new maps are also as boring as hell. They're way to big whereas the older maps like metro you could play either macro or aggressive now the only option is to play macro style which is boring to watch from a spectators point of view and from my perspective is a boring style to play.

The old maps like Temple, Metro, Shak, etc were the best in my opinion.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> The game is far from balanced. Terran is supposed to have the strongest early game. Right now Terran does not have a strong early game nor a strong mid game hence why a few pro Terrans have switched to Protoss.
> 
> The new maps are also as boring as hell. They're way to big whereas the older maps like metro you could play either macro or aggressive now the only option is to play macro style which is boring to watch from a spectators point of view and from my perspective is a boring style to play.
> 
> The old maps like Temple, Metro, Shak, etc were the best in my opinion.


I like macro game. Brings back the S in RTS.


----------



## DoomDash

You could macro just fine on those maps. Seriously loved the old map pool.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> The game is far from balanced. Terran is supposed to have the strongest early game. Right now Terran does not have a strong early game nor a strong mid game


Terran has an incredible midgame against both zerg and protoss - pretty standard play is ~1rax expand and aggressive midgame when medivacs and stim pop vs protoss, or early 3cc to set up aggressive midgame vs zerg
Quote:


> You could macro just fine on those maps.


Most people's standards of macro would be third base by ~15 mins (often preferably before 10) for terran/protoss and then rotating bases out so that you have fourth before your main mines out, fifth before your natural mines out and can flip workers so you're mining from 3 bases at a time with 60-70 of them plus gas


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think the game is better than it's ever been. Except the social aspect. Even the channels that used to be most crowded, like Reddit or Teamliquid, now have like 10 people tops, at least on EU. Pro scene is awesome though. Have you seen this game for example? It's nowhere close to BGH gameplay you seem to believe SC2 has become.


This might be the best thing I've ever seen. Other than Jakji vs leenock in their gsl final game 1, and some other epic sen vs boxer, where else have you seen such epic tvz.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I like macro game. Brings back the S in RTS.


Actually the game is less strategic now and this is coming from an old top masters Terran player.

The old maps pools that had the smaller maps required more strategy and there was more diverse a long with creative strategies available now the game is all about macro and the one big battle for the most part.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Terran has an incredible midgame against both zerg and protoss - pretty standard play is ~1rax expand and aggressive midgame when medivacs and stim pop vs protoss, or early 3cc to set up aggressive midgame vs zerg
> Most people's standards of macro would be third base by ~15 mins (often preferably before 10) for terran/protoss and then rotating bases out so that you have fourth before your main mines out, fifth before your natural mines out and can flip workers so you're mining from 3 bases at a time with 60-70 of them plus gas


Terrans mid game is a joke, most of the pros just do an SCV pull timing vs Toss (pretty much a single build) and hope they will the one big battle or win because their opponent made huge mistakes.

Blizzard made the TvP matchup a joke with the oracle being able to use the nexus ability that makes fast expands and hard aggression from terran obsolete.

Drops are even less effective also because with an Oracle you can't do multi pronged attacks because the oracle's nexus ability will shut down your pronged attacks.

TvZ is a joke as well since queens are too good in my opinion and their late game is also too strong.

If they brought back the older map pool and made some changes to allow early aggression again the game would be much more fun.

Since the last time I played TvT is my favorite matchup because you can be aggressive early on and there are many, many different strategies available. I generally open 1/1/1 aggression to punish or straight up win against inferior players which is not possible vs the other races because their early defenses are wayy to strong and don't hurt their economy in any way.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> This might be the best thing I've ever seen. Other than Jakji vs leenock in their gsl final game 1, and some other epic sen vs boxer, where else have you seen such epic tvz.


That TvZ was good with the back and forth battles but that was only due to the small map and spawning positions being close. I've seen better TvZ's from MVP, MMA, and Sjow though. The last battle was basically just luck from the burrowed banelings no micro involved with that.


----------



## connectwise

You're such a downer, hipster


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> You're such a downer, hipster


You must be new to SC2 if you think that was the best TvZ to date.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Actually the game is less strategic now and this is coming from an old top masters Terran player.
> 
> The old maps pools that had the smaller maps required more strategy and there was more diverse a long with creative strategies available now the game is all about macro and the one big battle for the most part.
> Terrans mid game is a joke, most of the pros just do an SCV pull timing vs Toss (pretty much a single build) and hope they will the one big battle or win because their opponent made huge mistakes.


Then I have to ask what do you think "strategy" means? To clarify my point, SC2 now seems to me more like Age of Empires. That's just me, though. I like a game where territory matters


----------



## connectwise

I don't play sc. Those games I like, ilike for entertainment.

Here's an interesting read:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437182


----------



## Anti!!

Hey Doom Dash, I transfered clan rights to you in sc2. I have quit playing pc games and wanted you all to do as you with it.


----------



## connectwise

Asus ROG tournament is happening right now. the Dong vs someone coming up next. Buuuut....



DDOS attack....


----------



## SkipP

I heard that one can go back to Wings of Liberty and play as Zerg or Protoss. Is this true? I love the Start Craft campaign for both WOL and HOTS, but my internet sucks so multiplayer can be a challenge.

Can I replay the old WOL as a different class?


----------



## Cyro999

^No, just the multiplayer.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hey Doom Dash, I transfered clan rights to you in sc2. I have quit playing pc games and wanted you all to do as you with it.


I don't even play anymore







.

Also TvZ is not the best to date. Was way better in WoL.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, those 1 hour long broodlord/infestor games with 50 APM on both sides were a blast to watch and play.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't even play anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also TvZ is not the best to date. Was way better in WoL.


Well, at least you all still have access as needed. Disband it if you wish.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah, those 1 hour long broodlord/infestor games with 50 APM on both sides were a blast to watch and play.


That only happened very late into WoL, and could have easily been fixed with an infestor nerf. Much more exciting watching rine splits and tank play over all this widow mine BS. Also they added another boring stalemate unit. Broodlord / Swarm hosts are just lame.

and I won't disband our clan. Might play occasionally.


----------



## ronnin426850

I like swarm hosts







Makes the game more territorial, which I like


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That only happened very late into WoL, and could have easily been fixed with an infestor nerf. Much more exciting watching rine splits and tank play over all this widow mine BS. Also they added another boring stalemate unit. Broodlord / Swarm hosts are just lame.
> 
> and I won't disband our clan. Might play occasionally.


Good


----------



## sweffymo

Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!

I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...









I am on Penn State's CSL team but I haven't played in any matches yet because I work on Saturdays.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!
> 
> I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am on Penn State's CSL team but I haven't played in any matches yet because I work on Saturdays.


lol. Everyone knows you dont have to "a-move". Most just feel it is closer to that than the other races. However I wish I would have been able to be part of a local team back in the day. That would have been so fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I like swarm hosts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Makes the game more territorial, which I like


You might be playing the wrong race!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You might be playing the wrong race!


I don't play that often anymore, and when I do, it's only custom games with my wife vs bots







FarCry 3, MaxPayne 3 and now Alan Wake keep me away from SC


----------



## Yukss

edit


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!
> 
> I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...


Of course it doesn't. There's a Swedish professional Terran player, Sjow, who decided to prove Protoss is easy by getting into top GM with it within a month (which tbh shouldn't be considered too hard for any race for a pro). And he gave up after a week without even making it into GM.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!
> 
> I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it doesn't. There's a Swedish professional Terran player, Sjow, who decided to prove Protoss is easy by getting into top GM with it within a month (which tbh shouldn't be considered too hard for any race for a pro). And he gave up after a week without even making it into GM.
Click to expand...

Haha, I saw that. I made a sarcastic comment in the Reddit thread.


----------



## Yukss

Hi guys, pls whach this, is and great game, is silver and gold league but the played very nicely, the protoss played better, more micro and macro, the OTHER guys, the op one, just do the terran stupid things like mass marines, go see it and give me your analizes

epiclost.zip 165k .zip file


----------



## poroboszcz

Less than 4 hours left to the most epic showmatch in the history of SC2!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=438453


----------



## DoomDash

I think Nani vs Stephono would have been more appropriate.


----------



## Cyro999

Nani and Scarlett are two of the best (or the two best) nonkorean players, Stephano is retired and has hardly played for quite a long time; he just came to homestory cup in a study break (iirc)


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> Hi guys, pls whach this, is and great game, is silver and gold league but the played very nicely, the protoss played better, more micro and macro, the OTHER guys, the op one, just do the terran stupid things like mass marines, go see it and give me your analizes
> 
> epiclost.zip 165k .zip file


werent you the guy that played like a bronze player while being 'diamond' or something?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Nani and Scarlett are two of the best (or the two best) nonkorean players, Stephano is retired and has hardly played for quite a long time; he just came to homestory cup in a study break (iirc)


I know he retired but I think he was far better / proven than Scarlett.


----------



## ronnin426850

This gets my vote for silliest conversation on OCN.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I know he retired but I think he was far better / proven than Scarlett.


"Was", even if he played enough to contend for best player in eu/na title (he quit the game..) then he'd be a competitor, he did a lot but so did Scarlett. She's unarguably the best nonkorean zerg and has been for quite a while now


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> "Was", even if he played enough to contend for best player in eu/na title (he quit the game..) then he'd be a competitor, he did a lot but so did Scarlett. She's unarguably the best nonkorean zerg and has been for quite a while now


Scarlett's level of play has been far above of her many foreigner(Non-Korean) peers.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> werent you the guy that played like a bronze player while being 'diamond' or something?


You mean the one who hacked? Was in masters league and looked like he had mechanics of a gold low plat player?

Yea. It is him.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Shadeh

This is so odd, I'm normally a top diamond player but my worst MU is TvT. I seem to do things wrong and i'm not sure what it is, i often lose my games to drops in my base that do a **** load of damage.

Is it worth it to leave 2 sieged tanks up in my base with a h and of marines at ALL times??? I'm sick of mindlessly losing TvT games like that..

The awkward thing is, i really feel like i'm always AHEAD, sometimes far, sometimes less, but ahead. And then such a drop takes place and i'm sitting there wanting to bang my head against the keyboard multiple times.

I'm having severe problems with decision making in TvT.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> This is so odd, I'm normally a top diamond player but my worst MU is TvT. I seem to do things wrong and i'm not sure what it is, i often lose my games to drops in my base that do a **** load of damage.
> 
> Is it worth it to leave 2 sieged tanks up in my base with a h and of marines at ALL times??? I'm sick of mindlessly losing TvT games like that..
> 
> The awkward thing is, i really feel like i'm always AHEAD, sometimes far, sometimes less, but ahead. And then such a drop takes place and i'm sitting there wanting to bang my head against the keyboard multiple times.
> 
> I'm having severe problems with decision making in TvT.


I always leave 1 tank sieged right in front of my main CC and if need be my nats CC. I also play old school style with turret rings ( I play mech tho ). You'd be surprised how well 1 tank can shut down drops. Can also put a few defensive Widow mines near the mineral line or turret rings. I haven't played in awhile but whenever I was active I was masters ( now probably diamond level ). TvT was one of my stronger match ups near the end. Don't forget about sensor towers either.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> This is so odd, I'm normally a top diamond player but my worst MU is TvT. I seem to do things wrong and i'm not sure what it is, i often lose my games to drops in my base that do a **** load of damage.
> 
> Is it worth it to leave 2 sieged tanks up in my base with a h and of marines at ALL times??? I'm sick of mindlessly losing TvT games like that..


Sounds like you're having problems with awareness of enemy army size and movements, if you have better awareness of what he is doing then you can get by without blowing a lot of scans, or doing stuff like floating a rax around to scout airspace - until then, just do that stuff and over-scan to death

Leaving a bunch of units in your base is a bandaid response and the wrong one, using a crutch to help you walk until you develop the skills to be fine without it is much better learning practice


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Of course it doesn't. There's a Swedish professional Terran player, Sjow, who decided to prove Protoss is easy by getting into top GM with it within a month (which tbh shouldn't be considered too hard for any race for a pro). And he gave up after a week without even making it into GM.


he gave up because pvp was so awful

its not fun he woulda easily got it he was R1 masters within the first 3 days. maybe not top gm but gm


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> he gave up because pvp was so awful
> 
> its not fun he woulda easily got it he was R1 masters within the first 3 days. maybe not top gm but gm


It's understandable. PvP is abysmal, I gave up on trying to play it properly and just do a 5 stalker rush into 4 gate + Oracle and win most of the time but I still don't enjoy it.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!
> 
> I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am on Penn State's CSL team but I haven't played in any matches yet because I work on Saturdays.


To get out of bronze to low plat all that is needed it good macro. dont be supply blocked and a move will win. im helping a friend get out of gold as we speak and i do things like build hatches in peoples bases and go mass ling without speed or upgrades

trust me its just you are not macroing well give it some time u will get there. also i used to do a LOT of coaching if u want help i can help u


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Not sure why I never thought to find this thread before!
> 
> I'm currently a Silver league player and I play Protoss. I can confirm that simply a-moving as protoss doesn't get you to Master's contrary to popular belief...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am on Penn State's CSL team but I haven't played in any matches yet because I work on Saturdays.
> 
> 
> 
> To get out of bronze to low plat all that is needed it good macro. dont be supply blocked and a move will win. im helping a friend get out of gold as we speak and i do things like build hatches in peoples bases and go mass ling without speed or upgrades
> 
> trust me its just you are not macroing well give it some time u will get there. also i used to do a LOT of coaching if u want help i can help u
Click to expand...

I know, I was just poking fun at all the people who pooh-pooh the race that I have been playing since StarCraft 1.

The way leagues are right now, I am playing ex-plat and ex-diamond players most games, and my win-rate is still around 50%. It's really amusing to beat people who have 3 times my APM.







The strategy part of the game is what I understand, it's the execution that I need to work on.


----------



## eosgreen

heres the thing tho too like, ex diamond back then is low plat or gold now based on distribution. masters back then is masters back now but masters in s1-3 of hots is like high diamond

basically its ****ed and also the skill of ppl has gone up. it was slightly harder for me to get masters this time around i had to actually macro and play the game right where as before i could do anything and just stomp kids to at the least low masters.

the skill level has gone way up

ALSO - protoss is far far and away the easiest race and people are going to poke fun at all protoss players. friends i know who are various levels of protoss admit it and tbh if you want to get some sort of E-respect terran or zerg is the way to go. a zerg or terran of your current rating at your current skill level will no doubt be lower rated because it just requires SO much more and is SO much less safe. especially zerg at a low level


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> heres the thing tho too like, ex diamond back then is low plat or gold now based on distribution. masters back then is masters back now but masters in s1-3 of hots is like high diamond
> 
> basically its ****ed and also the skill of ppl has gone up. it was slightly harder for me to get masters this time around i had to actually macro and play the game right where as before i could do anything and just stomp kids to at the least low masters.
> 
> the skill level has gone way up
> 
> ALSO - protoss is far far and away the easiest race and people are going to poke fun at all protoss players. friends i know who are various levels of protoss admit it and tbh if you want to get some sort of E-respect terran or zerg is the way to go. a zerg or terran of your current rating at your current skill level will no doubt be lower rated because it just requires SO much more and is SO much less safe. especially zerg at a low level


That's correct, i seem to easily stomp platinum and low diamond. As a long time diamond player now. However since the previous season i started noticing diamond players skill has INCREASED by a lot, and that's the result of demotion of MANY master players.

Here in the attachment i'm adding below, you can see that the current master + diamond league combined is as big as MASTER league.

It also shows you that platinum and part of gold league have taken over diamond









Amazing, isn't it?


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> That's correct, i seem to easily stomp platinum and low diamond. As a long time diamond player now. However since the previous season i started noticing diamond players skill has INCREASED by a lot, and that's the result of demotion of MANY master players.
> 
> Here in the attachment i'm adding below, you can see that the current master + diamond league combined is as big as MASTER league.
> 
> It also shows you that platinum and part of gold league have taken over diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, isn't it?


i mean idk why they changed the system

it was

all leagues are 20 percent

diamond was 18 percent and 2 percent of diamond was masters

blizzard just sucks in general at this stuff


----------



## DoomDash

I just started playing again, time to get back in what looka like a more exclusive masters again.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just started playing again, time to get back in what looka like a more exclusive masters again.


the masters players are just as bad as before lol trust me just if you play a zerg in zvt games take longer to beat the baddies because of how hard widow mines stall


----------



## Anti!!

I didnt need to know masters is more exclusive.

Must.. resist... playing...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I didnt need to know masters is more exclusive.
> 
> Must.. resist... playing...


But But I'm playing again!


----------



## Jaydev16

Hey Starcraftsmen and women!I'm from Age of Empires 2.Is there any chance I can get an sc2 at a discounted price in India?I plan to take it up next vacation but its extremely expensive.Any ways to get it cheaper?Thanks!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Hey Starcraftsmen and women!I'm from Age of Empires 2.Is there any chance I can get an sc2 at a discounted price in India?I plan to take it up next vacation but its extremely expensive.Any ways to get it cheaper?Thanks!


You can always play the Starter Edition, it's free.
Otherwise, there was a 20% discount for Christmas, perhaps there will be a bundle when the next expansion comes out. Otherwise there usually are no discounts.


----------



## Jaydev16

^^
Thanks for replying!
And what are the limitations of the starter pack?So no discounts means 40$ all year round?


----------



## sweffymo

As soon as patch 2.1 is launched, starter edition players will be able to play for free in the arcade, and they can play on certain starter edition multiplayer maps. If you join a party with someone who already owns the game, you can play team games and custom matches too!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> ^^
> Thanks for replying!
> And what are the limitations of the starter pack?


You can play one mission from the story, unranked multiplayer with a friend, even if he is playing Starter Ed too, single player vs Easy and Very Easy A.I. on a limited set of maps.
Also, you can only play as Terran in the Starter Ed.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> ^^
> Thanks for replying!
> And what are the limitations of the starter pack?
> 
> 
> 
> You can play one mission from the story, unranked multiplayer with a friend, even if he is playing Starter Ed too, single player vs Easy and Very Easy A.I. on a limited set of maps.
> Also, you can only play as Terran in the Starter Ed.
Click to expand...

With patch 2.1 they're going to unlock all 3 races in starter edition too


----------



## DoomDash

I want my BroodWar music in 2.1!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> But But I'm playing again!


Lol

I hear ya..


----------



## DoomDash

I will always have some regrets if I don't make it to GM someday.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I will always have some regrets if I don't make it to GM someday.


I think I will be ok.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I think I will be ok.


Are you sure?


----------



## eosgreen

sc2 just had something about it during WOL. the meta wasnt figured out the hype was there. it was just amazing and no other game has ever been like it. league of legends picked up after sc2 opened the esports door no one with half a brain can deny it but sc2 was the only esport that required half a brain and talent so it died out.

too hard = too much for casuals = dying game


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> sc2 just had something about it during WOL. the meta wasnt figured out the hype was there. it was just amazing and no other game has ever been like it. league of legends picked up after sc2 opened the esports door no one with half a brain can deny it but sc2 was the only esport that required half a brain and talent so it died out.
> 
> too hard = too much for casuals = dying game


You are just all doom and gloom.


----------



## sweffymo

Right, because BroodWar wasn't an eSport, and it also was super easy.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Right, because BroodWar wasn't an eSport, and it also was super easy.


I second that. Lol


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Right, because BroodWar wasn't an eSport, and it also was super easy.


broodwar was an esport in ONLY korea before esports were really mainstream.

maybe i wasnt specific enough. to make a living for more then just 3 guys like in sc2, it needs a large following. there are league streamers who get 30k every time they turn on the stream for HOURS. sc2 has NEVER hit that for ANYONE. stephano would get 14k, idra 10k and it wasnt for hours. League is popular because its so easy and has so much less stress at lower levels that many ppl enjoy it. bronze league is stressful for noobs and so sc2 will not retain players just lose them. also factor in that population breeds population, i know people who just dont play dota 2 even though they pref it because everyone they know plays league

- league LEAGUE games get 400k viewers
- broodwar was not mainstream EVER
- sc2 is a lonely game and league is a group activity

and above all these things

- blizzard refuses to make good decisions with esports
- protoss at its core level of design is accepted by EVERYONE as flawed and there is 0 open ended discussion about it that isnt hit with "stop complaining sc2 is fine" or the likes of such (which kills progress)

- league spends tons of cash on esports
- league balances FOR esports
- league has things like aram skins and such that are popular and continually changes the game with new skins and champions

sure you can have sc2 be an esport but one that people cannot make a living doing while league does offer that. league is closer in every way to being an esport including the casting which is WAY better and the game allows for casting to actually be better as well

and im not doom and gloom, i play sc2 all the time and stream for friends but the writing is on the wall, you just refuse to see


----------



## Jaydev16

Thanks a lot ronnin and sweffymo!I'll get the starter pack when I upgrade my PC.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Right, because BroodWar wasn't an eSport, and it also was super easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> broodwar was an esport in ONLY korea before esports were really mainstream.
> 
> maybe i wasnt specific enough. to make a living for more then just 3 guys like in sc2, it needs a large following. there are league streamers who get 30k every time they turn on the stream for HOURS. sc2 has NEVER hit that for ANYONE. stephano would get 14k, idra 10k and it wasnt for hours. League is popular because its so easy and has so much less stress at lower levels that many ppl enjoy it. bronze league is stressful for noobs and so sc2 will not retain players just lose them. also factor in that population breeds population, i know people who just dont play dota 2 even though they pref it because everyone they know plays league
> 
> - league LEAGUE games get 400k viewers
> - broodwar was not mainstream EVER
> - sc2 is a lonely game and league is a group activity
> 
> and above all these things
> 
> - blizzard refuses to make good decisions with esports
> - protoss at its core level of design is accepted by EVERYONE as flawed and there is 0 open ended discussion about it that isnt hit with "stop complaining sc2 is fine" or the likes of such (which kills progress)
> 
> - league spends tons of cash on esports
> - league balances FOR esports
> - league has things like aram skins and such that are popular and continually changes the game with new skins and champions
> 
> sure you can have sc2 be an esport but one that people cannot make a living doing while league does offer that. league is closer in every way to being an esport including the casting which is WAY better and the game allows for casting to actually be better as well
> 
> and im not doom and gloom, i play sc2 all the time and stream for friends but the writing is on the wall, you just refuse to see
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you. We've all been on /r/Starcraft before. You forgot the "DED GAEM GUISE" part.


----------



## eosgreen

so tell me this then since clearly my logic has been likened with reddit posts

- what is going to keep casual gamers interested in sc2 1v1
- how does a pro player make a living
- why is every korean team shutting down
- do you actually think sc2 has a good core design atm?

honestly everyone i know says the same thing "its just not that fun" and its true its PURELY for competition and that isnt gonna be popular and you dont need to be the MOST popular game to be an esport but you DO need to have enough people watching to pay people...


----------



## DoomDash

I love SCII but it has problems. I do think a lot of it is blizzards fault.

Bnet 2.0 still sucks for social interactions.

unit design is still flawed.
A move splash units that take almost no skill ( colossus ).
Boring siege units that take no skill and spawn targetable splash soakers ( bl's / swarm hosts )
team games suck. IDK what it is exactly, probably all the hard counters, but in SC1 I actually enjoyed team games.
poor unit design choices. Oracle as the answer to missing protoss micro? Are you ******ed David Kim? Seriously couldn't think of a scrubbier air micro bogus unit.
range 15 air units? lolololol.

WoL is still better than HotS btw, even if I'm playing HotS now.

Do I think SCII can be saved? YEah, but they need to get rid of David Kim.

Sucks it's getting killed by scrubby moba games but Blizzard could have done so much better to prevent that.


----------



## Cyro999

Lets stop the doom and gloom talk eh? Teamliquid has rules against it (and balance talk) aside from on specific areas for good reasons, and it's one of the best forums i know partially because of that stuff


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Lets stop the doom and gloom talk eh? Teamliquid has rules against it (and balance talk) aside from on specific areas for good reasons, and it's one of the best forums i know partially because of that stuff


TL also bans you for being sarcastic. have you read what some of the mods write lol
its NOT a good forum because ANYONE can talk as long as they are nice and not critical of anything but being critical of something is the only way things get changed. All of the things that everyone prides sc2 on TL for are a lot of times the things that hurt sc2.

- glhf is what you expect a sc2 player to say right? but why do all the fans love when ppl **** talk. TRASH TALKS FUN and koreans who promise to show good games are boring. the most interesting and fan fav korean is MC, KNOWN for trash talk and shinanigans but yet if you trash talk someone on a TL thread you are BM right? its contradictions all around on TL

on the topic of game design?

- hard counters as he said are TOO hard of a counter
- warp ins are a bad mechanic
- mules bad mechanic in that you can pool them, and they can be used more than 1 at a time. an equal balance would be putting chrono and mule on 25 and 50 second cooldowns which is what inject is basically

- unit generating units like swarm host and broods are awful for the game
- forcefields make balance virtually impossible for the protoss race and in effect hurt the chances of other units becoming balanced
- certain units cant function in a balanced game like the collosi, the widow mine, the immortal, the oracle, MSC, boosted medivac, swarm host and the marauder
- spells are too strong or not strong enough such as storm and army supply being capped at 200.... well thats a ENTIRELY dif problem

- zerg has defenders disadvantage
- terrans MMM is too strong but its tech is weak
- protoss gateway units suck but its tech is too strong

none of this will change because if you have played ANY blizzard games you know they do NOT DO ESPORTS WELL

- world of warcraft was at MLG they didnt even do a single thing to let the uninformed know nor did they meet with "pros" or balance pvp and separate pve from it
- diablo 3 proves they dont listen to us
- HOTS confirms our worst fears with the introduction of the MSC and swarm hosts 2 of the single worst units to ever ruin a game


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> TL also bans you for being sarcastic.


They temp ban for sarcastic insults and balance whine in the wrong forums, yea
Quote:


> have you read what some of the mods write lol
> its NOT a good forum because ANYONE can talk as long as they are nice and not critical of anything but being critical of something is the only way things get changed. All of the things that everyone prides sc2 on TL for are a lot of times the things that hurt sc2.
> 
> - glhf is what you expect a sc2 player to say right? but why do all the fans love when ppl **** talk. TRASH TALKS FUN and koreans who promise to show good games are boring. the most interesting and fan fav korean is MC, KNOWN for trash talk and shinanigans but yet if you trash talk someone on a TL thread you are BM right? its contradictions all around on TL
> 
> on the topic of game design?
> 
> - hard counters as he said are TOO hard of a counter
> - warp ins are a bad mechanic
> - mules bad mechanic in that you can pool them, and they can be used more than 1 at a time. an equal balance would be putting chrono and mule on 25 and 50 second cooldowns which is what inject is basically
> 
> - unit generating units like swarm host and broods are awful for the game
> - forcefields make balance virtually impossible for the protoss race and in effect hurt the chances of other units becoming balanced
> - certain units cant function in a balanced game like the collosi, the widow mine, the immortal, the oracle, MSC, boosted medivac, swarm host and the marauder
> - spells are too strong or not strong enough such as storm and army supply being capped at 200.... well thats a ENTIRELY dif problem
> 
> - zerg has defenders disadvantage
> - terrans MMM is too strong but its tech is weak
> - protoss gateway units suck but its tech is too strong
> 
> none of this will change because if you have played ANY blizzard games you know they do NOT DO ESPORTS WELL
> 
> - world of warcraft was at MLG they didnt even do a single thing to let the uninformed know nor did they meet with "pros" or balance pvp and separate pve from it
> - diablo 3 proves they dont listen to us
> - HOTS confirms our worst fears with the introduction of the MSC and swarm hosts 2 of the single worst units to ever ruin a game


Is this really what we want this thread to be? And also - how do you expect friendly discussion if you list thirteen different points in a negative way at the same time?


----------



## eosgreen

threads as active as the game is there is like 400 games being played atm on NA

all im saying is how often do you hear "hey lets go play some sc2 games for fun"

never


----------



## Cyro999

Srsly what is your problem?


----------



## sweffymo

I guess he just drank the Destiny kool-aid... Even though now Destiny has come back to the game from LoL because he hates LoL for all of the reasons that were listed that make it appealing for "casuals."


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> I guess he just drank the Destiny kool-aid... Even though now Destiny has come back to the game from LoL because he hates LoL for all of the reasons that were listed that make it appealing for "casuals."


yeh i play sc2 when i wana compete

i play league for fun with friends. the discussion for fixing sc2 is about making sc2 multiplayer better and the doom and gloom isnt a destiny or reddit thing its a "all my friends quit thing"

my entire crew from wow are all GM masters players and we all play moba games now because its MORE FUN than sitting by yourself


----------



## sweffymo

What's a GM Master?


----------



## Cyro999

group of GM / Master


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> group of GM / Master


I know; I was being facetious.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> I know; I was being facetious.


>.>


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> - diablo 3 proves they dont listen to us


Sorry but that's not quite true. Once they saw the game was a flop, more than 50% of the serious suggestions on the D3 forum were implemented in patches. D3 was an example of devs listening. They didn't follow Every suggestion, of course, but they changed a lot.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Sorry but that's not quite true. Once they saw the game was a flop, more than 50% of the serious suggestions on the D3 forum were implemented in patches. D3 was an example of devs listening. They didn't follow Every suggestion, of course, but they changed a lot.


This is true.


----------



## Anti!!

I agree with eos' and doom's posts. However my comment of eosgreen always being doom and gloom stands lol. We are always having convos on the bright side and eos comes in with his "reality checks". Even though they may be true there is not much im gonna do about it lol. So i just dont talk about it normally. Anyone is more than welcome to discuss the negatives. I just dont want to hear from the same person all the time. Sc2 is definitely lonely. The only times I really had fun was when I practice 1v1 with a friend (I did play team games with clan members and it was boring after we grinded our 5 placement matches). The game and it's neat details is fun and there is nothing like it but it is limited. I also used to like david kim but he bores me.

I dont know what it was but there was something about broodwar that was much more fun and more social. Maybe it was because it was my first real online multiplayer game but even until 2009 it was just fun, and I started playing it in 2000. Then again there would be wide gaps in my play. It was mainly due to none of my clan mates would play it. It was always css of bf2 or tf2 or WoW.

That brings another point. WoW. It is the best sucess they ever had. You could know no one and still be drounded in a social experience but blizzard even ruined that..


----------



## eosgreen

you know when hitler first made his move.... ppl didnt wana talk about it.... then look what happened


----------



## poroboszcz

Less qq more pew pew!



And Happy New Year from the master race!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> you know when hitler first made his move.... ppl didnt wana talk about it.... then look what happened


Of course, but this is a game. People should be putting that effort and worry into the U.S. It is where proactive voters should be using there right to vote and keep this country from bankruptcy.


----------



## Anti!!

Happy New Year


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Of course, but this is a game. People should be putting that effort and worry into the U.S. It is where proactive voters should be using there right to vote and keep this country from bankruptcy.


The "most of the world lives in the US" assumption?







Happy new year, NPCs


----------



## Anti!!

I never assumed. Get your feelings off of your shoulder.

You also assume I am american.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> NA STARCRAFT I & II


It's right there like two inches below your post


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It's right there like two inches below your post


My current location has nothing to do with my origin. Im German.

Regardless stay on topic.


----------



## Sainesk

Love highlight videos:






it's been a busy year, but now I think i'll have more time to get back into SC.


----------



## DoomDash

Me too esp with some buffs incoming :


----------



## BigFan

Been a while since I was here. Nice to see some familiar faces (or usernames lol). Are some of the older members here as well?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFan*
> 
> Been a while since I was here. Nice to see some familiar faces (or usernames lol). Are some of the older members here as well?


Most people are gone. Still a few. I've come back out of retirement just recently and I'm terrible again.


----------



## BigFan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Most people are gone. Still a few. I've come back out of retirement just recently and I'm terrible again.


ya, figured as much. Seems like most people we used to play with and discuss SCII left years back. I'm not playing much either, back in bronze XD


----------



## eosgreen

my god swarm hosts on large maps vs protoss are a ******* nightmare. i cant really send much of my army to go deal with warp ins because i havent fully established spores yet and i cant send my slow ass army over to defend the base and i get starved for resources

******* HATE swarm hosts never using them on some of these maps ever

come back to the game after a long break and everything is turtle 3 base gg no rush 15 deathball and the protoss deathball got even stronger what lol...

edit - are there any good terran or toss here? id love some toss practice tbh i feel like i have no clue how to play against toss atm and its pathetic cus its just low masters


----------



## DoomDash

I used to be good, but I'm pretty bad right now ( could take games of GM's ).

Swarm hosts are lame.

and

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-welcomes-back-sc2-with-mlg-gameon-invitational/

http://gameon.gg/


----------



## Mwarren

Game died down a lot, I used to be top masters and have beaten a few GM's on ladder but the game is a turtle fest now which makes it boring to watch and play.

Thinking about giving DOTA 2 a try though as that game is really active.


----------



## sweffymo

I'm going to have to unsub from this thread because I'm apparently the only person left who actually enjoys playing the game and doesn't act like a Debbie Downer about everything.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> I'm going to have to unsub from this thread because I'm apparently the only person left who actually enjoys playing the game and doesn't act like a Debbie Downer about everything.


I still enjoy it, but with some complaints. Just want it to be EVEN BETTER! It's my favorite MP game of all time ( along with the Tekken series ).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Game died down a lot, I used to be top masters and have beaten a few GM's on ladder but the game is a turtle fest now which makes it boring to watch and play.
> 
> Thinking about giving DOTA 2 a try though as that game is really active.


Starcraft II may be less popular but it's still far far better IMO.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Starcraft II may be less popular but it's still far far better IMO.


I can't agree with you there.

The game is a snore fest anymore.

They need to bring back the smaller map's and get rid of the Oracle.

Early game aggression is gone unless you like proxy raxing.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I can't agree with you there.
> 
> The game is a snore fest anymore.
> 
> They need to bring back the smaller map's and get rid of the Oracle.
> 
> Early game aggression is gone unless you like proxy raxing.


Game is broken for now but at its core its just a better game than DOTA. I mean DOTA basically took 90% of the complicated aspects of Starcraft out to become what it is today.

So yeah, the oracle is stupid, and yeah the map pool is boring compared to old days, but there is still hope of those being fixed. The latest map pool is SLIGHTLY more exciting than previous seasons, and I think everyone BUT David Kim knows the oracle is stupid. It's only a matter of time before he figures it out.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Game is broken for now but at its core its just a better game than DOTA. I mean DOTA basically took 90% of the complicated aspects of Starcraft out to become what it is today.
> 
> So yeah, the oracle is stupid, and yeah the map pool is boring compared to old days, but there is still hope of those being fixed. The latest map pool is SLIGHTLY more exciting than previous seasons, and I think everyone BUT David Kim knows the oracle is stupid. It's only a matter of time before he figures it out.


there's a fair amount you have to memorize about other heroes with dota, i mean really it's fairly vast. granted sc has way multitasking when it comes to micro, but that's what i dislike. it seems like it=instant carpal tunnel


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> there's a fair amount you have to memorize about other heroes with dota, i mean really it's fairly vast. granted sc has way multitasking when it comes to micro, but that's what i dislike. it seems like it=instant carpal tunnel


I'm 30 and my hands have never hurt playing SCII. The fact that there is so much room for improving your own mechanics and speed is one of the MANY places you can improve. It's all the different types of skill you can have that make it the ultimate competitive game.


----------



## eosgreen

I JUST FINALLY GREW A PAIR AND ASKED A CURRENT HIGHLY RATED FRIEND

wow did i learn 2 very very simple facts that have literally had me stomping every protoss i fight. wow wow wow


----------



## poroboszcz




----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> I JUST FINALLY GREW A PAIR AND ASKED A CURRENT HIGHLY RATED FRIEND
> 
> wow did i learn 2 very very simple facts that have literally had me stomping every protoss i fight. wow wow wow


You have friends who play SC2. Such envy. Much lucky.


----------



## DoomDash

Seriously mech is so much more fun and for me MUCH better vs Protoss.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You have friends who play SC2. Such envy. Much lucky.


wana know what the trick was lol

and i got high rated s4 not knowing this just stomped terrans and zergs with a 20 percent protoss win rate

- since hots gateway expand is the go to and i had no idea when i could drone
- after hatch finishes send 1 ling to base if he has 1 gas in main, let your roach warren u start at 5:10 finish, its early aggression.
- if there is 2 gas its stargate just drone hard

THATS ALL I NEEDED and im rapin nerds now


----------



## Cyro999

Sounds like decent bandaid for lacking basic awareness of what other dude is doing


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Sounds like decent bandaid for lacking basic awareness of what other dude is doing


yeh im hots clueless tbh i was just macroing and making units blindly lol but it proves u can get masters without understanding if u macro just anything effectively

k **** voidrays unless i hydra ling all in i never win late game. primarily because i refuse to swarm host spore


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Seriously mech is so much more fun and for me MUCH better vs Protoss.


I friggin love seeing mech. It is sooo terrany. I remember playing against you when you were in meching prime. The good ole days. Those screen shots give me chills. You are that guy who makes the one trick ponies crap their pants. Lol


----------



## DoomDash

First game of Starbow I play as Protoss I got 42+ kills on my Reaver drop with a single reaver. FUUU BLIZZARD for removing the BEST PROTOSS UNIT. Also, something about the dragoon I just love.

A damn SHAME colossus are still in this game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> First game of Starbow I play as Protoss I got 42+ kills on my Reaver drop with a single reaver. FUUU BLIZZARD for removing the BEST PROTOSS UNIT. Also, something about the dragoon I just love.
> 
> A damn SHAME colossus are still in this game.


Colossus is a very very nice unit. The fact that it maybe doesn't fit very well doesn't mean it should be removed. What is an alien RTS without walkers?! Perhaps they should change the way it shoots, rebalance it, but definitely never remove it.
Also, plural is "Colossi".


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Colossus is a very very nice unit. The fact that it maybe doesn't fit very well doesn't mean it should be removed. What is an alien RTS without walkers?! Perhaps they should change the way it shoots, rebalance it, but definitely never remove it.
> Also, plural is "Colossi".


It is nice for the single player campaign but a unit of that power should take more skill. AKA the reaver.

I've said it 100x I will play Protoss again when the Reaver is back, and colossus out. Here's to hoping LOTV.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Colossus is a very very nice unit. The fact that it maybe doesn't fit very well doesn't mean it should be removed. What is an alien RTS without walkers?! Perhaps they should change the way it shoots, rebalance it, but definitely never remove it.
> Also, plural is "Colossi".


Did you play sc1 at its early days?


----------



## eosgreen

any current masters terrans here


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Did you play sc1 at its early days?


No, why?


----------



## DoomDash

I played Starcraft 1 in 1998 and didn't stop until CS 1.0 days. Spent thousands of hours playing on kali.net and hanging out in the battle.net channels "Clan ~nohunters" and "Clan -x17". Met and played some pros, played on Agent911's CS server ect.

Was around in the peak days of of battlreports.com, long before replays ect. Even used to write SC1 build orders on starcraft.org, or write them on paper to my buddies in high school. I'm sure they were dumb as crap looking back though lol.

As a SC1 player first I think the units in SCII that are very bad for the game are:

Marauder
Colossus
Oracle
Sentry
Tempest
Swarm Host
Broodlords.

I could break down why but if you just think about every one of those units is poorly designed in many ways. I also want to note SC1 didn't really have hard counters, so even outside that list everything that hard countered should be made more mild to make NOTHING a hard counter. Give people micro and skill to counter, not rock paper scissors. Kind of Starbow's mindset right now, and hopefully David Kim can open his eyes beyond win / loss ratios only.

There is one unit I've seen people debate in SCII, and that's the baneling. For a long time I hated banelings ( as a T player ), but I think even though they are much easier to use as far as micro goes than marines, they are the most exciting unit in the game because of the micro they force. They aren't entirely dumb either as you can still use them tactically / positionally to counter act micro counter acting.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I played Starcraft 1 in 1998 and didn't stop until CS 1.0 days. Spent thousands of hours playing on kali.net and hanging out in the battle.net channels "Clan ~nohunters" and "Clan -x17". Met and played some pros, played on Agent911's CS server ect.
> 
> Was around in the peak days of of battlreports.com, long before replays ect. Even used to write SC1 build orders on starcraft.org, or write them on paper to my buddies in high school. I'm sure they were dumb as crap looking back though lol.
> 
> As a SC1 player first I think the units in SCII that are very bad for the game are:
> 
> Marauder
> Colossus
> Oracle
> Sentry
> Tempest
> Swarm Host
> Broodlords.
> 
> I could break down why but if you just think about every one of those units is poorly designed in many ways. I also want to note SC1 didn't really have hard counters, so even outside that list everything that hard countered should be made more mild to make NOTHING a hard counter. Give people micro and skill to counter, not rock paper scissors. Kind of Starbow's mindset right now, and hopefully David Kim can open his eyes beyond win / loss ratios only.
> 
> There is one unit I've seen people debate in SCII, and that's the baneling. For a long time I hated banelings ( as a T player ), but I think even though they are much easier to use as far as micro goes than marines, they are the most exciting unit in the game because of the micro they force. They aren't entirely dumb either as you can still use them tactically / positionally to counter act micro counter acting.


Ok, I just wrote 2 page answer to that and deleted it, because I got lost in my own explanations...

What I'm essentially trying to say is:
Marauder is epic - fix it, don't remove it.
Colossus is epic - fix it, don't remove it.
Oracle is made-up high-fantasy bull excrement, remove it.
Sentry is made-up high-fantasy bull excrement, remove it.
Tempest is made-up high-fantasy bull excrement, remove it.
Swarm Host is epic - fix it, don't remove it.
Broodlord is made-up high-fantasy bull excrement, remove it.
Carrier is epic - bring it back.

A game where it is impossible to win 1vs2, regardless of how much the map favors you, is broken. Let's not break it further by adding more units that some designer with 0 imagination came up with in one of his more productive visits to the toilet (like the "Reaver" - a mobile factory that launches explosive robots?! NO.)


----------



## Sainesk

I liked the Reaver - each attack cost minerals so not using them efficiently/your opponent spreading units effectively could cost you the game, it was a unit that rewarded skill from either player. Colossus is still pretty much a-move style in my opinion (okay, some people move/position them a little). Also, Reaver and Corsair drops was much more like Medivac and Tank, whereas Colossus drops can simple be countered by just anti-air making them a not so terrifying ground drop unit as long as you notice it coming, whereas with a Reaver it gets dropped and all you have is anti air, then you have to react like you would to banelings/tanks making the match far more exciting than move my units away from minerals, move them back.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I liked the Reaver - each attack cost minerals so not using them efficiently/your opponent spreading units effectively could cost you the game, it was a unit that rewarded skill from either player. Colossus is still pretty much a-move style in my opinion (okay, some people move/position them a little). Also, Reaver and Corsair drops was much more like Medivac and Tank, whereas Colossus drops can simple be countered by just anti-air making them a not so terrifying ground drop unit as long as you notice it coming, whereas with a Reaver it gets dropped and all you have is anti air, then you have to react like you would to banelings/tanks making the match far more exciting than move my units away from minerals, move them back.


Ok, imagine the SC universe was real. Why on Earth would the Protoss design or use such a unit?! A unit has to fit the *game* before it fits mechanical requirements. In other words, they could design a big hairy BUTT, that, from a mechanical standpoint, solves ALL problems of the game - you just replace the, say, Colossus with that Butt, and the game now has a Perfect gameplay! Perfect balance, perfect skill requirements, interesting gameplay.

Would you accept that? Would you accept a gigantic hairy A55 in your favorite game for the sake of balance? I wouldn't. The Reaver is that butt for me. It being there makes no sense at all. And even if it solves all problems SC2 has (it doesn't), I still wouldn't want it.







Hope that wasn't too graphic.


----------



## poroboszcz

A unit should be designed with the purpose of filling a certain role in a battle. Reaver perfectly fits a role of a powerful but slow and fragile siege unit which protoss kind of lacks at the moment. If reaver doesn't make sense for you then carrier shouldn't as well.

I'd take reaver over colossus any time. There's a lot of cool things you can do with the reaver in terms of both strategy and tactics. There's nothing interesting that can be done with the colossus. It's just kind of boring. Not as boring as swarm hosts though.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> A unit should be designed with the purpose of filling a certain role in a battle. Reaver perfectly fits a role of a powerful but slow and fragile siege unit which protoss kind of lacks at the moment. If reaver doesn't make sense for you then carrier shouldn't as well.
> 
> I'd take reaver over colossus any time. There's a lot of cool things you can do with the reaver in terms of both strategy and tactics. There's nothing interesting that can be done with the colossus. It's just kind of boring. Not as boring as swarm hosts though.


You obviously didn't understand anything of what I said







Oh well...


----------



## Ddreder

Does anyone remember the awesome custom map days of SC1? I recently bought heart of the swarm because I thought maybe there would be more people playing custom games but I was extremely let down by the lack of community.. I miss the days of The Thing, RP maps, and the awesome dodge maps! But I guess nobody shared my enthusiasm.. I really wish there was a way to get people playing custom maps like they used to.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ddreder*
> 
> Does anyone remember the awesome custom map days of SC1? I recently bought heart of the swarm because I thought maybe there would be more people playing custom games but I was extremely let down by the lack of community.. I miss the days of The Thing, RP maps, and the awesome dodge maps! But I guess nobody shared my enthusiasm.. I really wish there was a way to get people playing custom maps like they used to.


i want them to make wc4 for the custom maps, not gonna happen though. we need more wow-crap apparently


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> any current masters terrans here


I broke into master yesterday as terran, how may i help you?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, imagine the SC universe was real. Why on Earth would the Protoss design or use such a unit?! A unit has to fit the *game* before it fits mechanical requirements. In other words, they could design a big hairy BUTT, that, from a mechanical standpoint, solves ALL problems of the game - you just replace the, say, Colossus with that Butt, and the game now has a Perfect gameplay! Perfect balance, perfect skill requirements, interesting gameplay.
> 
> Would you accept that? Would you accept a gigantic hairy A55 in your favorite game for the sake of balance? I wouldn't. The Reaver is that butt for me. It being there makes no sense at all. And even if it solves all problems SC2 has (it doesn't), I still wouldn't want it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that wasn't too graphic.


If I were an advanced alien race, a mobile factory of death that can't be hit by anti-air would sound far better to me than a walker that can't even shoot on a straight level (at air) and is so tall that nothing misses it. It's funny how it needs such long legs to get over terrain when the Terran reapers seem to have no such problems - maybe Terran is the real advanced alien race from the Protoss' perspective. Why the attachment to the model? Just because walkers are a common portrayal by humans of alien invasions? I'd expect an advanced alien race that wanted to wipe us out to be far less personal and employ a method such as Exterminatus from the Warhammer universe (which would be so much fun to balance







- I destroyed the whole planet, I win again!).

I'm open to the compromise of using the colossus model as the Reaver as long as they add a football helmet or something to explain why Vikings hitting it and such deal no damage.

I have to throw these in since I was reading Colossus threads and they gave me quite a laugh:

Quote:


> "Colossus should do melee damage to air units by running into them, it can have the same DPS of a Stalker except w/ the potential to hit multiple air units at the same time! -_-."
> 
> "Maybe if you turn the colossus upside down, it'll actually hit the air"


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> If I were an advanced alien race, a mobile factory of death that can't be hit by anti-air would sound far better to me than a walker that can't even shoot on a straight level (at air) and is so tall that nothing misses it. It's funny how it needs such long legs to get over terrain when the Terran reapers seem to have no such problems - maybe Terran is the real advanced alien race from the Protoss' perspective. Why the attachment to the model? Just because walkers are a common portrayal by humans of alien invasions? I'd expect an advanced alien race that wanted to wipe us out to be far less personal and employ a method such as Exterminatus from the Warhammer universe (which would be so much fun to balance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - I destroyed the whole planet, I win again!).
> 
> I'm open to the compromise of using the colossus model as the Reaver as long as they add a football helmet or something to explain why Vikings hitting it and such deal no damage.
> 
> I have to throw these in since I was reading Colossus threads and they gave me quite a laugh:










Those were nice









And I said that the implementation of Colossus is terrible and it should be fixed, so we agree on that







The reapers use jetpacks, the colossus can't use jetpacks because of its size, that's why the long legs







And it definitely should be able to shoot in a straight line, and it should instakill anything smaller than BC, imo. Those lasers seem quite menacing.
So here's what I'm thinking - add air damage, increase all damage a lot, and make it shoot those two lasers in different directions, but make it terribly expensive and deployable, so it can't shoot while moving







Or make it much slower.
Nah, whatever, I can't give balancing advices







But it would be terrible if they remove it. Especially since after a really cool game with Collossi, I can start UT3 and actually drive one


----------



## DoomDash

I remember a poll on TL where the Colossus got voted as the worst SCII unit by a large margin. I think that sums up how everyone feels about it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I remember a poll on TL where the Colossus got voted as the worst SCII unit by a large margin. I think that sums up how everyone feels about it.


True, except those people don't think past the implementation of the unit in MP. Which is subject to change.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> True, except those people don't think past the implementation of the unit in MP. Which is subject to change.


They are thinking of whats best for SCII. Certainly not an A-move high dps / splash unit that can't even get caught on your own units or terrain. Talk about scrubby.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> They are thinking of whats best for SCII. Certainly not an A-move high dps / splash unit that can't even get caught on your own units or terrain. Talk about scrubby.


Yet gets hit by everything and can't fire back. Anyway. The discussion of whether the Collossus is OP or UP is OT







What I'm saying is - change the way the unit works, keep the way the unit looks. You can't possibly argue with that..!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yet gets hit by everything and can't fire back. Anyway. The discussion of whether the Collossus is OP or UP is OT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is - change the way the unit works, keep the way the unit looks. You can't possibly argue with that..!


I don't think there is any way to fix a unit so fundamentally flawed. It's just not worth fixing, might as well scrap it and do it right ( by adding the reaver back ).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't think there is any way to fix a unit so fundamentally flawed. It's just not worth fixing, might as well scrap it and do it right ( by adding the reaver back ).


Of course there is a way. The Colossus could fire rockets. Everything is possible. Remember how many versions of the BC are there


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Of course there is a way. The Colossus could fire rockets. Everything is possible. Remember how many versions of the BC are there


The the core of the BC has always remained the same. I played since beta and they didn't redesign the BC they just modified it. Colossus problems have nothing to do with balance, only design.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The the core of the BC has always remained the same. I played since beta and they didn't redesign the BC they just modified it. Colossus problems have nothing to do with balance, only design.


Hmm, I don't think I can agree with that. The Annihilator Tripod from CnC is virtually identical in design, never had any problems. So what do you understand by "design"? Does "design problems" include that it can take damage from air? Because that's tweakable.

When I say "design" and "look", I just refer to the way it looks, nothing about how it works.


----------



## DoomDash

I mean mechanically designed. It's just not a good unit for Starcraft ( see my 2nd last post ). It looks cool, sure, but it's also probably the most cliche design ever. I mean how many games and movies do you basically see the same thing in?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I mean mechanically designed. It's just not a good unit for Starcraft ( see my 2nd last post ). It looks cool, sure, but it's also probably the most cliche design ever. I mean how many games and movies do you basically see the same thing in?


Let's see - War of the Worlds, The Matrix, CnC3, UT3... and probably a lot more.

You call it cliché, I call it classic, mate







I personally would miss it greatly if they decide to sack it. And that Reaver is technically the Infestor, toss edition. I don't like it, never will. And you guys say that it requires skill, but you don't know how Blizzard would implement it, if they decide to! It could be an a-move unit as well! And I think it has an even greater potential for that, since it can't be that easily sniped from air.

I understand, the way it *was* was good for you. But nothing guarantees that this will be the way it will be, if it is ever included. Think about it - why on Earth would Blizzard radically change the toss gameplay? T and Z will have a tremendous advantage while the P's are busy trying to re-learn their race. No, if Blizz remove an a-move unit, they will replace it with another a-move unit, that's what I think will happen... Hope I'm wrong


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think Blizzard could possibly ruin the Reaver to be as bad as the Colossus is.

Seriously it can't even be an effective A move unit as its completely useless without a drop ship ( besides defensively ). It has the slowest movement speed....


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hmm, I don't think I can agree with that. The Annihilator Tripod from CnC is virtually identical in design, never had any problems. So what do you understand by "design"? Does "design problems" include that it can take damage from air? Because that's tweakable.
> 
> When I say "design" and "look", I just refer to the way it looks, nothing about how it works.


its very simple

- if a unit has x worth it should require x work

- a collosi needs nothing more than a move to accomplish MASSIVE damage

to think the collosus is a good unit is to not really understand sc2. CnC is not sc2 and the units that "worked" in that game do not in this game for other reasons. no unit should do so well for such little work another example being the MSC. the MSC requires a 1 button solution to my multi tasking drops or attacks, its not a balanced unit because not only its power but its ease of use.

if the collosi COULDNT take damage from air it would be the most OP thing in the world.... they thought the air damage would offset its power but its not enough because the time it takes to kill it with air often times still results in ground forces being destroyed way too quickly

what league are you... im pretty sure u mentioned it and it was lower league i just dont understand how any human being can see nothing wrong with the current collosi and site the BC as the example of "change" when bc has been the same all through BW and till now save MINOR changes


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> the MSC requires a 1 button solution to my multi tasking drops or attacks, its not a balanced unit because not only its power but its ease of use.


The "difficulty" of msc is largely down to managing energy on it, considering it takes 6 minutes to fill energy pool, many high level players try to bait out an overcharge then multi-prong, or more scarily, if you let energy get really low or use double overcharge, they'll just pull workers in response knowing that you can't overcharge when they get there and are playing in a way that is reliant on that defense. It's good for allowing toss to much more reliably gate expand (otherwise you simply had to FFE on many maps; though a lot of them were not suited for that either) and probably won't allow days like: Pick one of 3 options; 2rax conc shell first, moving out with 1-2 marauder - 2rax reactor first, moving out with 5 marines (both hitting before warpgate) or 1-1-1, scv pulling or not, muling, simply never expanding flying main to nat etc. There were some pretty abusive timings on med sized maps against expanding toss so i can completely understand why they added msc, but the lower level you go the more of an unstoppable barrier it seems to become rather than a fragile and necessary defensive tool


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> No, why?


Because you would completely understand why we think the first sc1 was completely perfect. The reaver would make sense and I believe your mind would change somewhat. Maybe. I dont know you personally, but if you were armed with that experience I believe it would help. Those really were the glory days IMO. I remember just hanging in channels and getting games together. It was the most fun I have ever had on any game. Evar


----------



## discoprince

anyone playing the starbow custom game? its like broodwar but starcraft 2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> its very simple
> 
> - if a unit has x worth it should require x work
> 
> - a collosi needs nothing more than a move to accomplish MASSIVE damage
> 
> to think the collosus is a good unit is to not really understand sc2. CnC is not sc2 and the units that "worked" in that game do not in this game for other reasons. no unit should do so well for such little work another example being the MSC. the MSC requires a 1 button solution to my multi tasking drops or attacks, its not a balanced unit because not only its power but its ease of use.
> 
> if the collosi COULDNT take damage from air it would be the most OP thing in the world.... they thought the air damage would offset its power but its not enough because the time it takes to kill it with air often times still results in ground forces being destroyed way too quickly
> 
> what league are you... im pretty sure u mentioned it and it was lower league i just dont understand how any human being can see nothing wrong with the current collosi and site the BC as the example of "change" when bc has been the same all through BW and till now save MINOR changes


And I do not understand how can you be so terrible at reading my posts...







You understood nothing of what I was saying.


----------



## poroboszcz

You're just thinking in terms of the lore. That's what the single player campaign is for. You can have as many cool units that "make sense" in there as you wish. The units for competitive play should be designed around balance and interesting multiplayer gameplay.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You're just thinking in terms of the lore. That's what the single player campaign is for. You can have as many cool units that "make sense" in there as you wish. The units for competitive play should be designed around balance and interesting multiplayer gameplay.


But should still absolutely fit the lore, otherwise you get two completely different games. Don't argue, I'm right


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You're just thinking in terms of the lore. That's what the single player campaign is for. You can have as many cool units that "make sense" in there as you wish. The units for competitive play should be designed around balance and interesting multiplayer gameplay.


This.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> This.


Super this. This is how it has always been. DONT CHANGE MY STARCRAFT!!


----------



## ronnin426850

The lack of though process and desire for mutual understanding astonishes me. Ok, have it your way


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Don't argue, I'm right smile.gif


Quote:


> The lack of though process and desire for mutual understanding astonishes me.


You started it


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You started it


It was a joke, for f's sake! Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, sorry.


----------



## DoomDash

Seeker missiles are so good now <3. People stack units so hard.


----------



## FrankoNL

Does anyone have any safe zvz openers? I get rolfstomped by a lot of all ins. I mostly try to go 14 pool, 15 hatch and then around 16/17 gas.

back in the WoL day i used to be a toss player. With Hots i switched to zerg but i am debating about returning to the army from the void. Zerg is just to APM intensive for me. I am a complete derp at this game, just gold right now. But i can't keep up with the zerg macro when i get more then 3 bases. I start to miss injects and my money just skyrockets.

Problem with my improving is also that i have large periods of time where i am not playing at all or very little.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Does anyone have any safe zvz openers? I get rolfstomped by a lot of all ins. I mostly try to go 14 pool, 15 hatch and then around 16/17 gas.
> 
> back in the WoL day i used to be a toss player. With Hots i switched to zerg but i am debating about returning to the army from the void. Zerg is just to APM intensive for me. I am a complete derp at this game, just gold right now. But i can't keep up with the zerg macro when i get more then 3 bases. I start to miss injects and my money just skyrockets.
> 
> Problem with my improving is also that i have large periods of time where i am not playing at all or very little.


IMO if you want to improve just hit solid 5 games a week minimum - for max improving, i'd target like 50-100/week, for grinding out basic stuff that requires mechanical development or repetition without much thought, maybe more

but most important is just solid playing, maintain or improve skill, not decay, so 5+/week


----------



## FrankoNL

5 games per week is not a problem







i normally reach that.

Ahh well. Maybe back to protoss. Just need to figure out the "new" openings compared to WoL. PvP seems to be an all random fest nightmare when it comes to openings? Kind of all over the place compared to PvT and PvZ. ( one gate expand, FFE )


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> 5 games per week is not a problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i normally reach that.
> 
> Ahh well. Maybe back to protoss. Just need to figure out the "new" openings compared to WoL. PvP seems to be an all random fest nightmare when it comes to openings? Kind of all over the place compared to PvT and PvZ. ( one gate expand, FFE )


i am retired of playing SC2 but keep an eye on tournaments, streams and such... you can go to Teamliquid.net and get some really good advices and get some zerg players streaming and you can learn from them...

as i can see PvP is 80% the same as WOL some new openings but not to much differently to WOL

im planning to return to HOST to play Terran... after playing all the time protoss on WOL being Master rank
but Protoss is to random and to gimmicky at times and weak too at times so i have decided to go to terran.


----------



## FrankoNL

Btw. The widow mine. I am sorry but it is the Terran equivalent to the oracle.

David Kim said he wanted to improve the protoss micro and he also called the widow mine a micro intensive unit.

Yeah. Well .... press E and you are done.


----------



## Jaydev16

I'll build a rig around mid-March and plan to play SC2.How long will the bundle offer for buying all three games last?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Btw. The widow mine. I am sorry but it is the Terran equivalent to the oracle.
> 
> David Kim said he wanted to improve the protoss micro and he also called the widow mine a micro intensive unit.
> 
> Yeah. Well .... press E and you are done.


It's nothing like the oracle. Both have easy micro, the oracle just requires you to watch it but micro itself is a joke. I can't tell what kind of crack Blizzard was on when they came up with the dps numbers of the oracle. I mean they kill 4 SCV's with marines 2 feet away moving to drive it out. It's ******ed. I thought banshees were cheap in WoL ( plenty of posts here of mine proving that ), and the oracle is like a low skill banshee lol!


----------



## DoomDash

Speaking of Oracle, I just played a game where I scouted them and tried to prepare, and still lost almost all my SCV's. I was no expecting to make so many oracles so 1 turret was not enough. Despite that it ended up being a pretty close scrappy match with lots of mech / raven action. Almost came back, but I was on titl after that oracle attack.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=292080


----------



## Jaydev16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> I'll build a rig around mid-March and plan to play SC2.How long will the bundle offer for buying all three games last?


Can someone help me with this?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Can someone help me with this?


First of all, which three games are you referring to? You just mentioned SC2. And SC2 has only 1 expansion yet, so that could count as 2 games. Which is the third? If you are referring to the last expansion of SC2 - I haven't seen such a bundle yet, and nobody knows how long it would continue. In case you mean some other games, please clarify which or provide link to the bundle you're talking about







Cheers!


----------



## Jaydev16

I read earlier on this discussion that Bliz makes a bundle after releasing each expansion and Legacy of The Void comes out this March.So I was asking how long that bundle offer lasts.Sad nobody knows hoe long it'll last.I'll only get the new PC around the last week.Anyhow,thanks for answering and cheers!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> I read earlier on this discussion that Bliz makes a bundle after releasing each expansion and Legacy of The Void comes out this March.So I was asking how long that bundle offer lasts.Sad nobody knows hoe long it'll last.I'll only get the new PC around the last week.Anyhow,thanks for answering and cheers!


I think you should be able to catch it. Also, nothing stops you from buying the bundle before you get the PC, right?


----------



## Jaydev16

Awesome!And I could just buy and transfer the code,but I don't want my old life(old pc) to be involved with the new one.Strange,I know but thats how it has to be.Tanks a bunch!


----------



## EliteReplay

when is LEGACY OF VOID being released?


----------



## Jaydev16

As per IGN,I think March.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> As per IGN,I think March.


i dont think so... blizzard hasnt show anything related to it.


----------



## Jaydev16

You're right.Darn,I could swear I saw March as the release.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> I read earlier on this discussion that Bliz makes a bundle after releasing each expansion and Legacy of The Void comes out this March.So I was asking how long that bundle offer lasts.Sad nobody knows hoe long it'll last.I'll only get the new PC around the last week.Anyhow,thanks for answering and cheers!


LOTV Is not being released in march 2014. It's somewhat likely that it won't be here in March 2015.


----------



## DoomDash

If David Kim is still in charge of unit design SCII will be dead by the time it comes out anyway.


----------



## Mwarren

SCII practically is already dead. Remember SC2's first two years? Those were when it was super popular and a ton of fun with lots of different viable strategies.

Now even the best SC2 pros are lucky to hit 1K viewers on stream.

A indie studio should release a RTS like SC2 or Blizzard should release/develop WC4.

WC4 would probably be amazing. Macro + intense micro at a faster pace than SC2.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Those were when it was super popular and a ton of fun with lots of different viable strategies.


rose-tinted glasses or whatever the term is? No lol, everybody always hated the game just as much as they do now. Only difference is the "sc2 is dead" talk that's been going on for a few years now

It's not "dead". It's the premier 1v1 esport. Lucky to hit 1k viewers? There's >5k every single day on multiple people. It's 1am in the US, 7am in europe and Jaedong has 2.7k.

The amount of people complaining about sc2 being "dead" is more than enough to support the game, before you even get started on the actual fans. About how balance sucks, or about how it "used to be better" - seriously, why? I don't understand at all how people can follow a game for four years and complain about it being dead for three. It doesn't make sense.
Quote:


> Remember SC2's first two years? Those were when it was super popular and a ton of fun with lots of different viable strategies.


2011-2012 were the height of imbalance, and DEFINITELY the height by far of people complaining of both balance, and being forced into playing very specific ways. Do YOU remember them? o.0


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> rose-tinted glasses or whatever the term is? No lol, everybody always hated the game just as much as they do now. Only difference is the "sc2 is dead" talk that's been going on for a few years now
> 
> It's not "dead". It's the premier 1v1 esport. Lucky to hit 1k viewers? There's >5k every single day on multiple people. It's 1am in the US, 7am in europe and Jaedong has 2.7k.
> 
> The amount of people complaining about sc2 being "dead" is more than enough to support the game, before you even get started on the actual fans. About how balance sucks, or about how it "used to be better" - seriously, why? I don't understand at all how people can follow a game for four years and complain about it being dead for three. It doesn't make sense.
> 2011-2012 were the height of imbalance, and DEFINITELY the height by far of people complaining of both balance, and being forced into playing very specific ways. Do YOU remember them? o.0


Question, what level did you play at?

I was ranked high masters and was beating GM's in my prime 2 years ago all the way back to 3 years ago.

The game was a lot more fun because now the only viable strategies are fast expanding and playing off 2-3 bases which is primarily the main reason why the game died quite a bit, the game is boring to watch and play.

2-3 years ago it was more fun to play because you could open up aggressive and the game would be fast paced all game long unlike games going on today.

By the way, 2.7K viewers is nothing, players like Trump who switched to the premier 1v1 Esport game (Hearthstone) average 10-20K viewers a day for 6-8 hours at a time.

I'd have to say that Hearthstone is the premier 1v1 E Sports game at this time even though it's a card game and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


----------



## FrankoNL

The premier E-sports at the moment is League of Legends without a doubt.

The pro's who stream get around 20k viewers for single que. Tournaments go 150 to 200 k. SC2 never reaches that.

But that does not mean it is dead. Just because it has a smaller fan base than other games ( free to play games, remember that! ) that have a less steep learning curve and are easier to get into, ( LoL ) does not mean the game is dead by any means. It is just a less popular e-sports game.

What i think is funny though is the people who are in gold/plat/diamond and low masters complaining about balance while most of them, especcialy in the lower leagues make huge mistakes.


----------



## DoomDash

This game is so much harder than it used to be. I got back to Masters twice when HotS came out after very long breaks but now I'm struggling to make it out of gold. Some seriously decent players in gold now, makes no sense.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> This game is so much harder than it used to be. I got back to Masters twice when HotS came out after very long breaks but now I'm struggling to make it out of gold. Some seriously decent players in gold now, makes no sense.


I believe this has nothing to do with how hard the game actually is, it's only because of redistribution of the leagues. I might be wrong though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I believe this has nothing to do with how hard the game actually is, it's only because of redistribution of the leagues. I might be wrong though.


No I know you're right. High plat is like low masters of HotS release. Certainly doesn't make sense anymore to me though.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> By the way, 2.7K viewers is nothing, players like Trump who switched to the premier 1v1 Esport game (Hearthstone) average 10-20K viewers a day for 6-8 hours at a time.
> 
> I'd have to say that Hearthstone is the premier 1v1 E Sports game at this time even though it's a card game and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


I don't get Hearthstone's popularity. I've been in the beta a while and the balance issues between the classes are pretty severe, as well as it being a pay to win game (Finding just one Legendary card with the terrible gold earn rate/chance is like a miracle). Sure one can argue Legendary cards won't guarantee you win, but they certainly help, a lot.

What would make that game interesting for me (and willing to pay for it) is if it introduced more formats like MTG, then at least some of those formats would have rules in place that would make games a little fairer and more skill based instead of the chaos it is now.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I don't get Hearthstone's popularity.




Srsly.


----------



## EliteReplay

sc2 is far from dead... and there is another expo to be released next year which could help to address some of the flaws or imbalance in the game... to make it more fun like BW was to some extend.

BW was more balance after like 8years of gameplays and some tricks taht allow races to be more playful
such as MUTA micro if it wasnt because of this Zerg would never win vs T on broodwar

Muta micro allows the zerg to properly keep the Terran at bay while makig drones...

we need more of this on SC2 but not intentionally applied but rather discovered by the players.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> we need more of this on SC2 but not intentionally applied but rather discovered by the players.


Can't agree more







Every change feels forced lately... Not to mention whenever some "trick" is found, they hurry to "fix" it, instead of allowing the other races to find "tricks" of their own...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> The premier E-sports at the moment is League of Legends without a doubt.
> 
> The pro's who stream get around 20k viewers for single que. Tournaments go 150 to 200 k. SC2 never reaches that.
> 
> But that does not mean it is dead. Just because it has a smaller fan base than other games ( free to play games, remember that! ) that have a less steep learning curve and are easier to get into, ( LoL ) does not mean the game is dead by any means. It is just a less popular e-sports game.
> 
> What i think is funny though is the people who are in gold/plat/diamond and low masters complaining about balance while most of them, especcialy in the lower leagues make huge mistakes.


I saw LoL with 360k+ friday night. It is getting scary.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> premier 1v1 Esport game (Hearthstone)


lol

And i played at low-mid master depending on matchup, had homepage on TL since like early 2011 etc


----------



## poroboszcz

To be honest I don't think balance is the main issue with SC2. It seems to be pretty well balanced at the moment and pro level games are interesting to watch, more then they used to be at many points in time.

There's less of both one base all-ins and 1 hour stale games, which can only be a good thing. It's not only because of the balance changes and the map pool, but also because most people have figured out how to deal with gimmicky play and, luckily (sadly for some) you can't get straight into masters by cheesing every game.

The real problem, imo, is that SC2 is just not that fun, especially for casual players. Laddering is a lonely, stressful and often frustrating experience for most people and no balance changes can probably fix that. Battle.net 2.0 feels empty and interaction with other people is mostly limited to "gl hf" or getting insulted. This issue didn't exist with the old Battle.net and its chat channels, where you could always find someone to play custom maps etc.

I think Blizzard should take some notes from games like LoL and focus more on improving the social and casual aspects of the game. Better spectator facilities, proper chat channels, improved interface, more game modes, custom maps etc.

One good idea I've read on r/starcraft was a non-competitive mode where players could customise their armies in a similar way it's done in single player. Kind of like you can chose your loadout in FPS games. This would create much more variety in play styles, strategies etc. (e.g. you could chose to have reaver instead of colossus). While it would never be perfectly balanced it would just be much more fun for casual players than grinding the ladder. Team games would also be much better.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> To be honest I don't think balance is the main issue with SC2. It seems to be pretty well balanced at the moment and pro level games are interesting to watch, more then they used to be at many points in time.
> 
> There's less of both one base all-ins and 1 hour stale games, which can only be a good thing. It's not only because of the balance changes and the map pool, but also because most people have figured out how to deal with gimmicky play and, luckily (sadly for some) you can't get straight into masters by cheesing every game.
> 
> The real problem, imo, is that SC2 is just not that fun, especially for casual players. Laddering is a lonely, stressful and often frustrating experience for most people and no balance changes can probably fix that. Battle.net 2.0 feels empty and interaction with other people is mostly limited to "gl hf" or getting insulted. This issue didn't exist with the old Battle.net and its chat channels, where you could always find someone to play custom maps etc.
> 
> I think Blizzard should take some notes from games like LoL and focus more on improving the social and casual aspects of the game. Better spectator facilities, proper chat channels, improved interface, more game modes, custom maps etc.
> 
> One good idea I've read on r/starcraft was a non-competitive mode where players could customise their armies in a similar way it's done in single player. Kind of like you can chose your loadout in FPS games. This would create much more variety in play styles, strategies etc. (e.g. you could chose to have reaver instead of colossus). While it would never be perfectly balanced it would just be much more fun for casual players than grinding the ladder. Team games would also be much better.


I agree, laddering was a terrible experience for me


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> The real problem, imo, is that SC2 is just not that fun, especially for casual players. Laddering is a lonely, stressful and often frustrating experience for most people and no balance changes can probably fix that. Battle.net 2.0 feels empty and interaction with other people is mostly limited to "gl hf" or getting insulted.


I agree 100%, between this and the engine problems i would probably play a lot lot more

I used to actually play a lot, i would just sit down at 7pm and play til 5am with 5-10 min breaks between games (which is a lot, considering many took ~10-15 min game time, which is like 0.7x that in real time), but eventually it becomes hard to find validation or enjoyment from it. Serious skill development and passion requires both, IMO.


----------



## EliteReplay

i stopped playing SC2 because of the time it takes to be good and keep the same skills on a SC2, some times SC2 feels so easy when u see streams but when you try to play your self after a time it becomes stresfull again...

i went from BW to SC2 to BF3/BF4 and battlefield is fun requires skills and keep your interest on learning new things.
from time to time i play BW with friends but not that much...
im thinking on going back to SC2 as a Terran just to enjoy new thinngs.... i was Protoss master back on WOL.


----------



## Anti!!

I agree with the last three posts. Other than the engine. The graphics may be dated but they are good enough for me. I want the fun back in it. BW was so fun for so long and it is hideous in graphics comparison wise..


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I agree with the last three posts. Other than the engine. The graphics may be dated but they are good enough for me.


I speak not of the graphics (which i like), but of the complete inability for the game to run smoothly even on low settings and god tier hardware (singlethreaded limited vs haswell @4.7ghz)

The frametime variance is super, super annoying and sc2 @200fps is less smooth than many games at 60 - only it's not at 200fps, it's often far below that in big fights.

There's also a stutter at any kind of high supply numbers coinciding with every 10 seconds on the game timer.

It's a 32-bit dx9 program, limited to 2048MB of RAM. There are skins etc and more units now that have to be loaded, so this amount of RAM is insufficient. To deal with it, the game actively unloads things that have been loaded, which results in resource stalls and stuttering surprisingly often (if you actually count them)

The drag scroll function scales with mouse DPI, which makes it extremely painful to use for those who would actually benefit from using it, and there is no reason for it to do so; yet there is no way of setting it any other way. The only bypass is to artificially increase your screen resolution - if you render the game at 1.5x the width resolution for example, you can increase DPI by 50% and have the same sensitivity to cross the screen on the X and Y axis, yet your drag scroll is suddenly 50% faster. There's no consistency in that, or manual control.

There's a list of stuff that just.. does not work well, i could write an essay. I have done, several times before; it's not these problems that bother me, but the sad reality that they will probably never been fixed, given much of the engine issues date back to what we first saw of WOL pre-launch.

Look at this, look at it










There is no way that this type of frametime variance is remotely acceptable, i'm scared to see what it looks like under FCAT


----------



## DoomDash

I play on the lowest graphical settings, but SCII still looks great maxed. I stopped playing because it's hard for me to half ass games. Now that I'm back I'm just having a ton of fun regardless if some units are poorly designed.

Current stats after coming out of retirement.


----------



## FrankoNL

I think your TvP needs work









Haha just kidding.

Frametime issues are a problem in a lot of games. But is it a problem with the engine or just bad driver optimilization from the 2 big guys in graphic card land?

I myself never noticed the issues that you are putting forward.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> I think your TvP needs work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha just kidding.
> 
> Frametime issues are a problem in a lot of games. But is it a problem with the engine or just bad driver optimilization from the 2 big guys in graphic card land?
> 
> I myself never noticed the issues that you are putting forward.


It's a problem with the engine, really.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It's a problem with the engine, really.


Hmmm ok. Maybe that is because when this game was being developed around 2008/2009/2010 there was not that much focus on the frametiming between frames? Developers and AMD/Nvidia have only really been trying to fix this problem since about 2 years.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Hmmm ok. Maybe that is because when this game was being developed around 2008/2009/2010 there was not that much focus on the frametiming between frames? Developers and AMD/Nvidia have only really been trying to fix this problem since about 2 years.


It's not only that, back when I was playing on a slower PC, I had 20 FPS difference between when I was looking at my base, and when I was looking at the center of XelNaga Caverns. With the FPS being higher while looking at my base/army!
There's no excuse for that. Nobody should be getting better framerates looking at 50 different objects, compared to looking at a blank spot on the map.


----------



## DoomDash

My old computer ( I7 with 580's ) had lag problems in starcraft. Felt like CPU lag, and it only happened on certain maps, but then it basically caused the game to run that way on all maps until I restarted the game.

This PC no problems, maybe because its six cores idk.

Man you would think a near 2:1 ratio would get promoted already. I've beat plenty of Plats.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ladder/165108#current-rank


----------



## FrankoNL

Hmm it seems pretty random than. I have had an I5 and now an I7 and it ran fine. Hell it even worked pretty well on an X3 when the game came out. I don't think those extra cores make a difference since SC2 does not utilize anymore then two anyway.

Haha you will be promoted soon enough. Btw. Is today not patchday? Where they will fix the ladders.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Hmm it seems pretty random than. I have had an I5 and now an I7 and it ran fine. Hell it even worked pretty well on an X3 when the game came out. I don't think those extra cores make a difference since SC2 does not utilize anymore then two anyway.
> 
> Haha you will be promoted soon enough. Btw. Is today not patchday? Where they will fix the ladders.


Yes patch is today.

As far as cores, I've read that more cores helps more than you would think in SCII as its a CPU intensive game. Can't find the exact article I'm looking for though.


----------



## FrankoNL

Double post


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes patch is today.
> 
> As far as cores, I've read that more cores helps more than you would think in SCII as its a CPU intensive game. Can't find the exact article I'm looking for though.


For EU it is tonight. Since the times are PST. So EU will be patched early tomorow morning Ah well, i'll play NA tonight







I want to get back in to plat ...

Really? that should not be possible since SC2 only utilizes 2 cores. If the cores are faster on their own compared to the other cores you had, then yeah there could be a difference.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I speak not of the graphics (which i like), but of the complete inability for the game to run smoothly even on low settings and god tier hardware (singlethreaded limited vs haswell @4.7ghz)
> 
> The frametime variance is super, super annoying and sc2 @200fps is less smooth than many games at 60 - only it's not at 200fps, it's often far below that in big fights.
> 
> There's also a stutter at any kind of high supply numbers coinciding with every 10 seconds on the game timer.
> 
> It's a 32-bit dx9 program, limited to 2048MB of RAM. There are skins etc and more units now that have to be loaded, so this amount of RAM is insufficient. To deal with it, the game actively unloads things that have been loaded, which results in resource stalls and stuttering surprisingly often (if you actually count them)
> 
> The drag scroll function scales with mouse DPI, which makes it extremely painful to use for those who would actually benefit from using it, and there is no reason for it to do so; yet there is no way of setting it any other way. The only bypass is to artificially increase your screen resolution - if you render the game at 1.5x the width resolution for example, you can increase DPI by 50% and have the same sensitivity to cross the screen on the X and Y axis, yet your drag scroll is suddenly 50% faster. There's no consistency in that, or manual control.
> 
> There's a list of stuff that just.. does not work well, i could write an essay. I have done, several times before; it's not these problems that bother me, but the sad reality that they will probably never been fixed, given much of the engine issues date back to what we first saw of WOL pre-launch.
> 
> Look at this, look at it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way that this type of frametime variance is remotely acceptable, i'm scared to see what it looks like under FCAT


O.O

I didnt realize people were having such an issue. I never had that issue with my current rig. Plus my 580 sc. I mean never. Lol

@ doomdash

You are not promoted because soon it will be gauging you against diamond if you keep winning like that.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes patch is today.
> 
> As far as cores, I've read that more cores helps more than you would think in SCII as its a CPU intensive game. Can't find the exact article I'm looking for though.


Sc2 performs the same on 2c/2t as 6c/12t. It flies with stuff like cache, frequency and even RAM though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> O.O
> 
> I didnt realize people were having such an issue. I never had that issue with my current rig. Plus my 580 sc. I mean never. Lol
> 
> @ doomdash
> 
> You are not promoted because soon it will be gauging you against diamond if you keep winning like that.


Provide me with a fraps frametimes.csv if you want, it's relatively easy to do. All three of my systems do/did the same and i verified it with three or four other people across a variety of systems - including the stutter on the 10 second mark on game timer, down to the second, multiple times, on shared replay and individually.

You might not realize that you are having issues, but the higher performing system you go, the more pronounced they are. Sc2 feels like it's running at a mere tiny fraction of whenever fps meter says because of such variance.

I really need FCAT for this, because it's terrible, really really terrible and fraps recording directx present calls can't show the issue properly


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Sc2 performs the same on 2c/2t as 6c/12t. It flies with stuff like cache, frequency and even RAM though.
> Provide me with a fraps frametimes.csv if you want, it's relatively easy to do. All three of my systems do/did the same and i verified it with three or four other people across a variety of systems - including the stutter on the 10 second mark on game timer, down to the second, multiple times, on shared replay and individually.
> 
> You might not realize that you are having issues, but the higher performing system you go, the more pronounced they are. Sc2 feels like it's running at a mere tiny fraction of whenever fps meter says because of such variance.
> 
> I really need FCAT for this, because it's terrible, really really terrible and fraps recording directx present calls can't show the issue properly


Interesting.

I dont have it installed anymore. I dont have any games installed anymore actually. Lol I sold my gpu and am running on bare bones. I decided to give them up to pursue other avenues with my time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> I dont have it installed anymore. I dont have any games installed anymore actually. Lol I sold my gpu and am running on bare bones. I decided to give them up to pursue other avenues with my time.


I tried that, and I keep coming back to SCII.


----------



## FrankoNL

Same here, tried LoL, BF4 .. hell i even have a PS4. It is fun to play sometimes, but SC2 is my favorite game


----------



## Sainesk

Club Icons and Clan Decals sweet. We've got to come up with some, here's my first doodle. I haven't gotten to show off my lack of artistic skills in ages:



Spoiler: Yes that's a really hot CPU...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Club Icons and Clan Decals sweet. We've got to come up with some, here's my first doodle. I haven't gotten to show off my lack of artistic skills in ages:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Yes that's a really hot CPU...


Make it happen!

Also not sure if everyone knows but we do have an OCnet clan. Join the channel overclockdotnet , or add me and I can invite you to our clan. Lets get this active again.

Man, before I quit HotS I was really struggling with TvZ vs Swarm Hosts and Vipers, but I think I'm getting used to it. It's just my normal mech opener into ravens, and once they camp with swarm hosts you just camp back and transition into BC / Raven.

Check out my pics of my last match, 7 minutes of camping my base vs swarm hosts with pdd. Finally got over ran ( being careless ):
http://imgur.com/a/pydtn


----------



## poroboszcz

What happened to the OCN custom division on sc2ranks?


----------



## DoomDash

It's gone I guess. I had it book marked.

New one for our clan. http://www.sc2ranks.com/clan/am/OCnet/overclockdotnet

Doesn't look they update much, been 1.5 weeks.

Here is a custom division, does this link work for you ( to add yourself )?
http://www.sc2ranks.com/usercp/custom-divisions/52def2aa39da9b0df2000010/edit

http://www.sc2ranks.com/cdiv/52def2aa39da9b0df2000010/overclock-net


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Club Icons and Clan Decals sweet. We've got to come up with some, here's my first doodle. I haven't gotten to show off my lack of artistic skills in ages:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Yes that's a really hot CPU...


Pff now you all wanna get active. >.>

I can see my retirement lasting.. I need to do other things or im gonna slip back into old ways.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I got a place holder setup until someone gives me something much nicer.


----------



## Sainesk

I actually set up another clan a while back mainly because searching the one I have (OverClockNet) in search engines returns the OCN main site as the top result, whereas searching for OverclockdotNet does not (though a thread on OCN is on the list) +I got the [OCN] tag. Up to you guys which one we use, but it's not like we have a lot of people joined in them that it'd be a hassle to change.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm cool with whatever. We can use yours. Invite me!


----------



## Sainesk

says you cannot accept the invitation at this time, think you can't be a member of more than one clan at a time so you'd have to leave your current one...?


----------



## DoomDash

Finally in Platinum. Getting back to Masters is going to be a process.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's gone I guess. I had it book marked.
> 
> New one for our clan. http://www.sc2ranks.com/clan/am/OCnet/overclockdotnet
> 
> Doesn't look they update much, been 1.5 weeks.
> 
> Here is a custom division, does this link work for you ( to add yourself )?
> http://www.sc2ranks.com/usercp/custom-divisions/52def2aa39da9b0df2000010/edit
> 
> http://www.sc2ranks.com/cdiv/52def2aa39da9b0df2000010/overclock-net


I can't figure out how to add myself, can only create new divisions.


----------



## DoomDash

I know I can add you, but you used to be able to add yourself. Added you.


----------



## FrankoNL

I can join the clan. of you guys are ok with that? I suck, but more for fun









Got it: MenDall: 337

So if you could invite me that would be awesome


----------



## DoomDash

Invite sent.


----------



## DoomDash

Our in game clan emblem:


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Our in game clan emblem:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Victory will now feel even more sweet representing such an awesome site!


----------



## DoomDash

New balance test map:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=441694

Hydra buff lame. Tempest buff lame.

Seriously swarm hosts are the problem not static d.

GSL Code S now all qualified for

15 Protoss
13 Zergs
3 Terrans.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> New balance test map:
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=441694
> 
> Hydra buff lame. Tempest buff lame.
> 
> Seriously swarm hosts are the problem not static d.
> 
> GSL Code S now all qualified for
> 
> 15 Protoss
> 13 Zergs
> 3 Terrans.


lol terran is strong as it is... every race has been asking for a buff since WOL, most of the tournaments where won by terrans back on WOL, it was to overpower and no one did anything... people where hopping those things to be addressed on HOST and they did in some extend.

Terran is a very forgiving race, heck you can also make come back with terran due to mule, is really hard
to come back as a protoss once you have lost all your expensive gas units like Collosus and HT

mean time terran just need MMM which is far cost effective.

i hope blizzard on LOV address more things and make the game less stale and borring to some point.


----------



## FrankoNL

Back in plat. finally!


----------



## DoomDash

I just got Diamond. Nice to see things returning to normal.


----------



## DoomDash

Man the colossus seems like small time bad design after playing HotS again. Oracles and Swarm hosts are so poorly designed I'm almost ready to quit already. I won't but damn I how can these even have made it in this game? Blizzard has lost their minds.


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't know about the oracle but swarm hosts are quite ******ed. Anyone watching qxc vs Scarlett right now? Just over 70 minutes now. Such a fun game!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I don't know about the oracle but swarm hosts are quite ******ed. Anyone watching qxc vs Scarlett right now? Just over 70 minutes now. Such a fun game!


Fill me in I missed it. I missed all of them up until now.

But yeah not sure if you guys remember but I was pointing out how dumb swarm hosts were before the game even launched. Just terrible on paper. Just hope Blizzard fixes it.

Poroboszc do you ever encounter oracles in PvP? I'm sure they aren't as bad since stalkers aren't slow but you've never experienced being out of position for 5 seconds and losing 5-15 scvs? I think the DPS is a major problem.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> most of the tournaments where won by terrans back on WOL


You must be joking. The final of almost every tounament in WoL was ZvZ, with Stephano winning.


----------



## Cyro999

Zerg wasn't exactly big at the start of WOL and stephano was definately from the second half (hard to place exactly given he surfaced a while ago)

WOL for many people means 2010, 2011, maybe bit of 2012 - unless you specify end WOL - the WOL-era competition started in early 2010 or so, so it had hit two years by q1 2012 - so most don't look to q4 2012-q1 2013


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, guys, do you know if its possible to start SC1 or SC2 on a specific map against a specific opponent, via a shortcut parameter or command line?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, guys, do you know if its possible to start SC1 or SC2 on a specific map against a specific opponent, via a shortcut parameter or command line?


Cracked versions can. Also might be able to just download maps that do it.

I had a 9 loss streak the last two days when I hit Diamond, but then I had a bit of a luck streak with one guy leaving twice, one guy leaving when he won, and one match I really shouldn't have won.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches#filter=solo


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Poroboszc do you ever encounter oracles in PvP? I'm sure they aren't as bad since stalkers aren't slow but you've never experienced being out of position for 5 seconds and losing 5-15 scvs? I think the DPS is a major problem.


I've got stalkers, cannons and nexus cannon so they are just mildly annoying at best. Most terrans I play also adapted to oracle openings so they either keep marines in mineral lines or build turrets by default. The more sneaky ones will place widow mines near mineral lines which happen to one-shot oracles. They have a potential of doing massive damage in the early game, but so have hellion or widow mine drops. I don't think they are inbalanced.

I imagine they figured out protoss was lacking cost effective harassment options and also had limited tech choices, since only robo provided detection, so they decided to make a stargate unit which kills workers fast and provides detection. From the lack of better ideas they've made it a flying ball.

What kind of motivation was behind the swarm host and how did they think unlimited free units is a good idea? I have no clue.


----------



## DoomDash

I do all that too, and I see pros do it, but the fact that you cant put on any aggression and have to build blind turrets is OP by itself, before the huge dps oracle even comes out. I think that's kind of the point the pros and casters always make when they make fun of Blizzard for it. I also see it still being effective even if its scouted. I would just love to see the damage not so crazy I can live with its speed.

I loved Desinty and Catz joking about it yesterday. "The oracle is probably appropriate speed. No Terran unit can catch it, which just means it wasn't meant to get caught".


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I do all that too, and I see pros do it, but the fact that you cant put on any aggression and have to build blind turrets is OP by itself


You can put on even less aggression in PvT vs similar harass openings from terran and for the entirely of WOL you had to blind robo with every pvt expand if the terran took a gas or denied scout


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You can put on even less aggression in PvT vs similar harass openings from terran and for the entirely of WOL you had to blind robo with every pvt expand if the terran took a gas or denied scout


Yes which is why they fixed that, correct? That's the problem, but I would argue its less of a commitment and less of a risk for Protoss. The oracle is way more multipurpose than a Banshee.


----------



## Anti!!

SILENCE!!


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> SILENCE!!


..i keel you


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> SILENCE!!


----------



## poroboszcz

RIP Day[9]


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> RIP Day[9]


Huh?!?


----------



## DoomDash

It's amazing how bad Blizzard has gotten. http://us.battle.net//sc2/en/blog/12701117


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> RIP Day[9]


what happend to day9?


----------



## sweffymo

The whole RIP day[9] thing is a stupid twitch meme from like 2011. People who can't think of something that's actually witty to say say that.

Also, I'm pretty sure that making hydras that cheap is going to completely break the game. And making ghosts be able to EMP as soon as they're built without an upgrade is like bringing Khaydarin Amulet back, but with no upgrade. =/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> The whole RIP day[9] thing is a stupid twitch meme from like 2011. People who can't think of something that's actually witty to say say that.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure that making hydras that cheap is going to completely break the game. And making ghosts be able to EMP as soon as they're built without an upgrade is like bringing Khaydarin Amulet back, but with no upgrade. =/


Except not nearly as good as amulet and it doesn't even fix the problem. Amulet was problem not because of being able to warp in anywhere with basically no production time. Just makes a slightly faster timing push for Terran, barely helps out mech, and really misses the point.

Getting really bored of watching every pro terran lose or get behind from every single protoss opener.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> The whole RIP day[9] thing is a stupid twitch meme from like 2011. People who can't think of something that's actually witty to say say that.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure that making hydras that cheap is going to completely break the game. And making ghosts be able to EMP as soon as they're built without an upgrade is like bringing Khaydarin Amulet back, but with no upgrade. =/
> 
> 
> 
> Except not nearly as good as amulet and it doesn't even fix the problem. Amulet was problem not because of being able to warp in anywhere with basically no production time. Just makes a slightly faster timing push for Terran, barely helps out mech, and really misses the point.
> 
> Getting really bored of watching every pro terran lose or get behind from every single protoss opener.
Click to expand...

Korean terrans do well against protoss usually, because they're actually good. Foreign terrans like DeMu, Avilo, etc. spend more time whining about balance than they do actually practicing, so I have no sympathy for them when they get wrecked by something that would have been pretty easy to counter had they decided to use a scan instead of a MULE.

The only thing I think that should be changed is the vision radius of the MS core, because it's way too big and it makes blink all-ins hit too fast since there's no need for a robo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Korean terrans do well against protoss usually, because they're actually good. Foreign terrans like DeMu, Avilo, etc. spend more time whining about balance than they do actually practicing, so I have no sympathy for them when they get wrecked by something that would have been pretty easy to counter had they decided to use a scan instead of a MULE.
> 
> The only thing I think that should be changed is the vision radius of the MS core, because it's way too big and it makes blink all-ins hit too fast since there's no need for a robo.


Korean Terrans are better than foreign Terrans. Now, you can say that's coincidence, or you can start to wonder why that is? Basically the only people who are good at Terrans are the absolute best players in the world? Clearly there has to be some design flaws, unless you believe in coincidence.

Have you been watching the Koreans recently? I have, and you see the same problems in Korea right now for Terran. 8/10 games are oracle / blink openers into safe expansions where they almost always end up ahead or win outright. 3 out of 32 players in Code S are Terran. The problems are not exclusive to NA.

MSC change would be a good start, but that just eliminates one of the problems. They would still have lots more options for safe high reward low risk openers, where Terran still has almost nothing because of photon overcharge ( even with the slight change ).

There are so many problems right now it's crazy. Personally I think alvio hit it on the head:
Quote:


> That and cannot honestly believe that Protoss is being buffed again, lategame of all things...(tempests)...
> 
> I've said it many places, but the changes they currently have listed above for TvP, time warp and photon overcharge. As they are right now, they will not impact the match-up or balance it in any meaningful way.
> 
> The current imbalance of options the Protoss player has over the Terran player will remain in the game after those changes. The strength of photon overcharge will remain exactly the same, 10 seconds is nothing. Time warp costing 25 more energy does not matter if the game immediately ends from the blink all-in killing the Terran player...
> 
> Everyone knows this that watches and plays SC2 at even a decent level or especially high levels.
> 
> If they want to make meaningful changes that won't break balance, here is what they should do:
> 
> 1. Revert Oracle Speed - making it so oracles do not 100% kill things every single game and can also have a chance to be killed by the Terran. Right now a good player will never lose their oracle ever because it was overbuffed. There's no risk to going oracle at all, especially with photon overcharge in the game.
> 
> 2. Remove sight range from the mothership core or severely reduce it to the point that stalkers cannot shoot the Terran's supply depots on their ramp from the low ground without needing to move onto the ramp.
> 
> This will nerf the strength of blink all-ins which are too easy to execute and are low risk, high reward. It also indirectly opens up more Terran build diversity because Terran will now be able to hide information from the Protoss player meaning Protoss cannot play mega greedy as they do right now by knowing 100% information of the Terran's base.
> 
> This change 100% needs to happen for TvP to have any sort of decent balance.
> 
> 3. Remove the engineering bay pre-req from turrets and sensor towers.
> 
> What does this do? It allows there to be reasonable counter play to finding a proxied stargate, or scouting a blink all-in. Sensor tower helps a lot against blink all-ins, and the ability to build a turret on the fly if you scout a proxied stargate changes the entire game from, "oh i autolose because i didn't blindly build an ebay and wasted 125 minerals" to "oh, i can build a turret and not just outright lose the game."
> 
> It also helps reduce the strength of blink all-ins because it saves Terran 125 minerals in the case that a blink all-in is scouted that could have gone towards another barracks or factory.
> 
> This is another change that will not break the game - it still allows Protoss those options they currently have, but it gives Terran a more reasonable defense against them.
> 
> 4. DT shrine price put back to wings of liberty price.
> 
> It was nice that they wanted more diversity and options for Protoss...but they went overboard and made it so Protoss has waaaaaaaaaay too many options. DT shrine price needs to go to 200 gas at the least. The only people who argue against this are the people that enjoy freewins from proxying DT shrines and right clicking to the Terran's base.
> 
> That's not Starcraft - it's poker. No one enjoys watching something like this on a professional game that blatantly takes zero skill or thought and is very randomized, especially when in conjunction with the metagame of all the other Protoss all-ins.
> 
> *5. Armory price reduced to 100/50 to allow mech players to upgrade their units at a more reasonable time versus Protoss and Zerg.
> 
> This does not impact unit balance in any way, it simply cuts a gas cost to Terran's that want to go mech so they can afford their factories and starports, tanks, blue flame, etc. at more reasonable times in the game.
> 
> This change makes 200% more sense than the ghost change blizzard proposes. The ghost change has zero impact on mech, although it would cut 100 minerals/100 vespene gas. The armory change I just mentioned does essentially the same thing - it cuts 100 minerals/100 vespene gas but actually is a meaningful mech change to help mech out...
> 
> Blizzard seriously...please listen to me on this. Everyone else should push forward a change like this because it makes infinitely more sense.*
> 
> 6. A +15 damage vs shields bonus applied to siege tanks, making siege tanks / mech a viable option vs Protoss.
> 
> This puts the tank back at 50 damage vs Protoss as it was in wings of liberty, and maybe then we'll see tanks not get run over in the most ridiculous fashions. The ghost change that blizzard proposes does absolutely nothing for mech viability because it doesn't change anything meaningful for mech vs Protoss.
> 
> The only thing the ghost change does is buff BIO and cut a 1 time 100 vespene gas cost. It does not help mech whatsoever.
> 
> Tanks back at +35 damage (+15 damage to shields) vs Protoss shieldsessentially reverts the previous tank damage nerf specifically vs Protoss, as 50 damage might be overkill versus Zerg.
> 
> Those are just my thoughts. Reading the blizzard proposed changes, I honestly do not know if it's them being out of touch with the game or that they are not willing or too timid to make changes to really balance TvP.
> 
> p.s. I bold faced my thoughts about the mobius reactor change/ghost change blizzard proposes to "buff mech" because it's quite obvious that change will do nothing to buff mech, whereas the change to armory price does exactly the same thing resource-wise but actually will influence mech 100% more than blizzard's poorly thought out change.


----------



## sweffymo

Avilo should stop intentionally playing using a poor strategy if he wants to win, or even be RELEVANT to any of this discussion in the first place. I really couldn't care less what he says. Avilo is a forum warrior who isn't actually good enough at the game to be a "professional," and most likely never will be. Did you see what happened when he tried to switch to "no skill a-move race" Protoss?


----------



## DoomDash

I think mech is actually the answer to TvP but that's just my opinion. I think protoss mid-game is far too strong, but once that's sorted out I won't have a problem with it. I've been meching since hots and I've had a pretty good time over all. I don't have any major complaints as mech player except vs Swarm hosts. The protoss problems in TvP are universal not just mech, not just bio. So you can say Avilo should play X but the problems exist regardless. Also just because someone is not good enough to be a pro doesn't mean they can't provide valuable insight.

And no I have no idea about anything related to him switching to Protoss. I also wouldn't argue with anyone saying Protoss is the easiest race, I've always felt this way, but now so more than ever. But I'm getting off track here.

To sum it up, every Terran is struggling not just NA, and not just Avilo.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Avilo should stop intentionally playing using a poor strategy if he wants to win, or even be RELEVANT to any of this discussion in the first place. I really couldn't care less what he says. Avilo is a forum warrior who isn't actually good enough at the game to be a "professional," and most likely never will be. Did you see what happened when he tried to switch to "no skill a-move race" Protoss?


i would like to know what happend haha, avilo is known on SC2 scene as the QQ guy...

i remember back in WOL when protss has to go blind ROBO every game and blizzard didnt do anything
and pro players come out with good semi antibuilds agains the 1-1-1 from terran players combine with good scouting and micro... but now avilo wants everything easy for the terran as iitt has been all the time since wol.

what about if a terran just scouts the map properly to look for proxy location instead of being so QQ.
if you know the protoss will open this way why dont you just go ahead and build a startport and just 1
vicking >>> raven to avoid /// oracle and the potential DT usage?

i have faith pros will come out with a build to counter slowly this protss builds.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i would like to know what happend haha, avilo is known on SC2 scene as the QQ guy...
> 
> i remember back in WOL when protss has to go blind ROBO every game and blizzard didnt do anything
> and pro players come out with good semi antibuilds agains the 1-1-1 from terran players combine with good scouting and micro... but now avilo wants everything easy for the terran as iitt has been all the time since wol.
> 
> what about if a terran just scouts the map properly to look for proxy location instead of being so QQ.
> if you know the protoss will open this way why dont you just go ahead and build a startport and just 1
> vicking >>> raven to avoid /// oracle and the potential DT usage?
> 
> i have faith pros will come out with a build to counter slowly this protss builds.


I'm kind of curious if you guys have been watching pro games recently? I've basically been watching every major tournament, and every big Korean tournament live ( I work second shift and I stay up until 8 am ).

All good Terrans send reapers / marines around the map in search of tech / proxy. It's common, and they are STILL losing, even actively scouting. If they do scout it and prepare they almost always end up behind ( or just lose ). You guys seriously need to stay up to date because there is some major problems going on and it's much worse than 1-1-1 ever was ( or banshee ), at least those were predictable.

Also Blizzard acknowledged blind Robobays being a problem, but that doesn't make it right for Terran to have to blindly prepare for 10+ different types of all ins / timings from protoss that can have 20 different safe follow ups transitioned into afterwords.

MAJOR problems going on right now.

I think if I really had to settle I would take MSC vision being nixed, Dark Shrine costs increased, and Oracle speed reduction. That's settling.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i would like to know what happend haha, avilo is known on SC2 scene as the QQ guy...
> 
> i remember back in WOL when protss has to go blind ROBO every game and blizzard didnt do anything
> and pro players come out with good semi antibuilds agains the 1-1-1 from terran players combine with good scouting and micro... but now avilo wants everything easy for the terran as iitt has been all the time since wol.
> 
> what about if a terran just scouts the map properly to look for proxy location instead of being so QQ.
> if you know the protoss will open this way why dont you just go ahead and build a startport and just 1
> vicking >>> raven to avoid /// oracle and the potential DT usage?
> 
> i have faith pros will come out with a build to counter slowly this protss builds.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kind of curious if you guys have been watching pro games recently? I've basically been watching every major tournament, and every big Korean tournament live ( I work second shift and I stay up until 8 am ).
> 
> All good Terrans send reapers / marines around the map in search of tech / proxy. It's common, and they are STILL losing, even actively scouting. If they do scout it and prepare they almost always end up behind ( or just lose ). You guys seriously need to stay up to date because there is some major problems going on and it's much worse than 1-1-1 ever was ( or banshee ), at least those were predictable.
> 
> Also Blizzard acknowledged blind Robobays being a problem, but that doesn't make it right for Terran to have to blindly prepare for 10+ different types of all ins / timings from protoss that can have 20 different safe follow ups transitioned into afterwords.
> 
> MAJOR problems going on right now.
> 
> I think if I really had to settle I would take MSC vision being nixed, Dark Shrine costs increased, and Oracle speed reduction. That's settling.
Click to expand...

I watch every tournament. In fact I'm watching two tournaments right now. There's no need to be patronizing about it. It's not like you are the Jesus of game design and know everything, and neither am I. However, in my opinion the current metagame in PvT is about as strong as the 1/1/1 was. And eventually Protoss players learned to deal with it. Neither the 1/1/1 era nor the current state of balance hold a candle to the brood lord/infestor era though.

I just wish that players did more what pro BroodWar players did and just figured out ways to beat things that were considered strong. The last balance patch to BroodWar was in 2001, but the metagame shifted to favor all races at one time or another. And I think that that is what would happen in SC2 too if Blizzard stopped trying to do stuff like making hydras cost as much gas as a roach, making tanks shoot faster (as if that does anything) etc. The last good change that they did was reduce widow mine splash and combine Terran ground and air upgrades. The fact that Avilo still whines about mech upgrades after that is just silly IMO.

I think that the real strongest unit composition in standard TvP right now would be bio with hellbats mixed in, and obviously ghosts if needed. ForGG has done really well in ASUS ROG against protoss (he just narrowly lost to Dear in the semifinal) and he has been using hellbat/bio. It's super good against the current zealot-heavy style that protoss uses.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Did you see what happened when he tried to switch to "no skill a-move race" Protoss?


Wasn't that Sjow?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i would like to know what happend haha, avilo is known on SC2 scene as the QQ guy...


He was going to make top GM within a month, gave up after a week without making it to GM at all and blaming PvP.

Funny story. Yesterday a guy from my friends list, [Fnatc]Zanster beat HerO 3:1 in Asus ROG and some long time ago I beat Zanster on the ladder! I specifically remember the game as it finished in like 15 minutes, but he kept talking for another half an hour or so.

I even found the replay: http://drop.sc/372938. I can't believe how this was a diamond level back then, while now gold league represents a higher level of play.

Anyway this clearly proves that me > HerO. I can quit this game now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> I watch every tournament. In fact I'm watching two tournaments right now. There's no need to be patronizing about it. It's not like you are the Jesus of game design and know everything, and neither am I. However, in my opinion the current metagame in PvT is about as strong as the 1/1/1 was. And eventually Protoss players learned to deal with it. Neither the 1/1/1 era nor the current state of balance hold a candle to the brood lord/infestor era though.
> 
> I just wish that players did more what pro BroodWar players did and just figured out ways to beat things that were considered strong. The last balance patch to BroodWar was in 2001, but the metagame shifted to favor all races at one time or another. And I think that that is what would happen in SC2 too if Blizzard stopped trying to do stuff like making hydras cost as much gas as a roach, making tanks shoot faster (as if that does anything) etc. The last good change that they did was reduce widow mine splash and combine Terran ground and air upgrades. The fact that Avilo still whines about mech upgrades after that is just silly IMO.
> 
> I think that the real strongest unit composition in standard TvP right now would be bio with hellbats mixed in, and obviously ghosts if needed. ForGG has done really well in ASUS ROG against protoss (he just narrowly lost to Dear in the semifinal) and he has been using hellbat/bio. It's super good against the current zealot-heavy style that protoss uses.


Tanks firing faster actually does help a bit but its just kind of a hidden buff. Let's you get an extra shot in from some approaching units, which for things like banelings can be life or death.

BL/Infestor, I think they just nerfed this and added a unit that I foresee being WORSE. Just you wait.

Anyway like I said I just want some of those protoss timings fixed and I really actually like TvP with mech just fine. I kind of think of mech TvP like I think of TvT, a lot of it comes down to tactical positions and really choosing where you engage. You'd be surprised how many 200/200 armies I've stomped ( something bio has a very hard time dealing with ). I do agree about bio / hellion. I would like to see that more. Still those problems do exist, and Dear didn't really play into Protoss meta abuse at all. I really think Dear wasn't playing the MU well at all, much better protosses out there.

Anyway my main concerns for the game is just some design issues that can be fixed, but I am really worried because I think David Kim is just changing things too randomly, or trying really round about ways to fix things. I mean that balance test map is 50% ridiculous.

I am ghost rushing if that EMP thing goes through though.


----------



## sweffymo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Did you see what happened when he tried to switch to "no skill a-move race" Protoss?
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that Sjow?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i would like to know what happend haha, avilo is known on SC2 scene as the QQ guy...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was going to make top GM within a month, gave up after a week without making it to GM at all and blaming PvP.
> 
> Funny story. Yesterday a guy from my friends list, [Fnatc]Zanster beat HerO 3:1 in Asus ROG and some long time ago I beat Zanster on the ladder! I specifically remember the game as it finished in like 15 minutes, but he kept talking for another half an hour or so.
> 
> I even found the replay: http://drop.sc/372938. I can't believe how this was a diamond level back then, while now gold league represents a higher level of play.
> 
> Anyway this clearly proves that me > HerO. I can quit this game now.
Click to expand...

They actually both did it, but Avilo couldn't even get into masters... Eventually he (and sjow) both admitted that PvZ is very hard, and that PvP is super hard to read.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I dont think I like you very much.

I was referring to the sudden silence after days of continuous conversation.

However, Cyro999, smooth pickup on that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Wasn't that Sjow?
> He was going to make top GM within a month, gave up after a week without making it to GM at all and blaming PvP.
> 
> Funny story. Yesterday a guy from my friends list, [Fnatc]Zanster beat HerO 3:1 in Asus ROG and some long time ago I beat Zanster on the ladder! I specifically remember the game as it finished in like 15 minutes, but he kept talking for another half an hour or so.
> 
> I even found the replay: http://drop.sc/372938. I can't believe how this was a diamond level back then, while now gold league represents a higher level of play.
> 
> Anyway this clearly proves that me > HerO. I can quit this game now.


LOL

I forgot you were Blinker. Hmm.

This game is funny like that. People you never think anything about just keep getting better.


----------



## sweffymo

Also, San won ASUS ROG! I have always been a big San fanboy so it's great to see him actually win something!


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> LOL
> 
> I forgot you were Blinker. Hmm.
> 
> This game is funny like that. People you never think anything about just keep getting better.


Yeah, we were supposed to have some practice games, so I added him to friends, but I think we never talked after this game. I just saw him getting into Master then GM, then signing with Fnatic and now beating HerO. Maybe I should ask him for some practice games now, lol.

The funny thing is how much harder the game has become. We were both playing at under 100 apm with ****ty mechanics and random strats, and yet we were high diamond (I believe GM didn't exist back then yet). I believe any current platinum+ player would make it easily to the top of the ladder in the early WoL.

I can't wait till LotV release when some new players join the ladder and skill distribution will reset.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know if the skill is THAT far off. I would say Diamond now is Masters from before. Blizzard just updated the league distribution, before that Gold was full of Diamonds and Masters though. I don't think I don't think I'm any better than I was ( worse even ) and I still am only one league difference.


----------



## poroboszcz

I am talking like early WoL times. In bronze and silver you then had players with no previous RTS experience, who didn't know how to use hot keys or control groups with openings like 9 depot, 10 depot, 12 engineering bay. Nowadays you don't really have this kind of noobs on the ladder. Id' say there is less flaws in current gold leaguers play then there used to be at diamond level back then.

And the ex-masters in gold league now are from the time when master league had like 5 times more players then it should have, so most of them probably shouldn't hove got into masters anyway.


----------



## sweffymo

I'm in Silver league and most of the people I play against are ex-plat and ex-diamond, and a lot of them have hit that league like 5 times or so.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I am talking like early WoL times. In bronze and silver you then had players with no previous RTS experience, who didn't know how to use hot keys or control groups with openings like 9 depot, 10 depot, 12 engineering bay. Nowadays you don't really have this kind of noobs on the ladder. Id' say there is less flaws in current gold leaguers play then there used to be at diamond level back then.
> 
> And the ex-masters in gold league now are from the time when master league had like 5 times more players then it should have, so most of them probably shouldn't hove got into masters anyway.


Yeah I suppose that's true.

I was basically a Masters player before Masters existed. Remember the tiered Diamond leagues? I was in the top tier in QxC, Tasteless, and Mr.Bitters Diamond division.

Tiered leagues is stupid though, glad they got rid of that. I always wondered why I would SMASH my Diamond friends but they were Diamond with the same amount of points as me.


----------



## DoomDash

Current win rates for myself this season:


Lost a lot of my w/l ratio now that I'm closer in skill to where I should have been.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I dont think I like you very much.


That was uncalled for.

Oh, and there's this thing about me not giving a rat's ass whether you like me or not.


----------



## SkipP

Okay, now I have only been playing starcraft for a few months, and multiplayer for a few days, but what is PvZ? I have no idea what this means.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> Okay, now I have only been playing starcraft for a few months, and multiplayer for a few days, but what is PvZ? I have no idea what this means.


Protoss VS Zerg


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> They actually both did it, but Avilo couldn't even get into masters... Eventually he (and sjow) both admitted that PvZ is very hard, and that PvP is super hard to read.


well i consider yet a Protoss player, back on wol i havent touch hots yet, playing to much Battlefield







for the last two years.

i have to sat that playing protoss is really demanding in terms of scouting and readings, we have to many units with special abilities that u need to use very well in all the match ups. which lead the race to play very pasive and also the units are really weak.

this is the reason why im thinking about switching to terran even tho people are complaining about the TvP state.

but Terran race are and zerg are more friendly in order to control de units than with protoss, you cant make mistakes with protoss since all their unit cost gas and are usually expensive tho.

just waiting to see what happens from here to the next 6month and see what LOVT brighs to the table.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> Okay, now I have only been playing starcraft for a few months, and multiplayer for a few days, but what is PvZ? I have no idea what this means.


Plants vs Zombies...

(woops, I mean Protoss vs Zerg







)


----------



## FrankoNL

got promoted to platinum. Now i have a loss streak that will blow your socks off.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> well i consider yet a Protoss player, back on wol i havent touch hots yet, playing to much Battlefield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the last two years.
> 
> i have to sat that playing protoss is really demanding in terms of scouting and readings, we have to many units with special abilities that u need to use very well in all the match ups. which lead the race to play very pasive and also the units are really weak.
> 
> this is the reason why im thinking about switching to terran even tho people are complaining about the TvP state.
> 
> but Terran race are and zerg are more friendly in order to control de units than with protoss, you cant make mistakes with protoss since all their unit cost gas and are usually expensive tho.
> 
> just waiting to see what happens from here to the next 6month and see what LOVT brighs to the table.


I think you have it backwards.

Also GL with being more successful with Terran than Protoss lol.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think you have it backwards.
> 
> Also GL with being more successful with Terran than Protoss lol.


i think i have u on my b.net right? we can play later but u need to know i have a lot that i dont play sc2 tho xD


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i think i have u on my b.net right? we can play later but u need to know i have a lot that i dont play sc2 tho xD


What's your SN in game?

Also I found this thread interesting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442494

This exactly what is pissing me off about SCII these days. The pros have more understanding ( even with bias ) than Blizzard, and no one can figure out where Blizzard is coming up with these backwards ideas. Skipping fixing the swarm host is making me upset.


----------



## Tacoboy

I've never played Starcraft.
Thought I would play original Starcraft first, then play Starcraft II.
Or is playing Original Starcraft a waste of time and Starcraft II is just so much better?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tacoboy*
> 
> I've never played Starcraft.
> Thought I would play original Starcraft first, then play Starcraft II.
> Or is playing Original Starcraft a waste of time and Starcraft II is just so much better?


It's not a waste of time and it has its own advantages / disadvantages compared to SCII. I played them both when they came out and I have a lot of love and appreciation for SC1, however the engine and all the little UI / control changes that SCII had makes it hard to enjoy how basic brood war was going back. If you have no idea of all these little changes you probably won't know what you're missing, and playing SC1 should feel fine ( maybe dated ). The story / and game are obviously top notch but its just really old now. I don't think its overly important that you play it, but it wouldn't be a bad thing either.

I think you'd have a higher chance of getting hooked with SCII now though, since its obviously much newer and feels / looks like it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tacoboy*
> 
> I've never played Starcraft.
> Thought I would play original Starcraft first, then play Starcraft II.
> Or is playing Original Starcraft a waste of time and Starcraft II is just so much better?


It's like asking "should I watch "Men in Black 1", or is "Men in Black 2" so much better?"







They are totally different games. I agree with DoomDash though that SC2 will hook you up easier.


----------



## DoomDash

Man, swarm hosts are such a badly designed unit. hour and 50 minute matches w00t! http://www.twitch.tv/egstephano/b/500188988?t=8h55m


----------



## poroboszcz

I hope someone from Blizzard watches his stream. I didn't manage to watch it for long, but it seems he's abusing swarm hosts in all matchups. Some of the most boring games I've ever seen.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That was uncalled for.
> 
> Oh, and there's this thing about me not giving a rat's ass whether you like me or not.


Your stupid little picture was uncalled for. lol

Im glad you dont care. Maybe I dont have to text with you anymore.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Your stupid little picture was uncalled for. lol
> 
> Im glad you dont care. Maybe I dont have to text with you anymore.


What was stupid about the picture, dude? Have you lost your mind?! You yell "Silence" amidst the silence, and all of a sudden I'm the bad guy for posting a picture that says "I didn't get what this was about"? You're acting seriously delusional right now.

I hope you make a note of it and calm the fuzz down, because your attitude is so out of place.


----------



## SkipP

I have a basic question. I love missile turrets for defense against airborne attacks. Is there an equivalent against ground units? In the campaign you eventually obtain the automated bunker guns. What can I do other than lots of soldiers.

In general I am grappling with what terran units have the flexibility to face both ground and air units.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have a basic question. I love missile turrets for defense against airborne attacks. Is there an equivalent against ground units? In the campaign you eventually obtain the automated bunker guns. What can I do other than lots of soldiers.
> 
> In general I am grappling with what terran units have the flexibility to face both ground and air units.


The only other building Terran has that can attack is the planetary fortress. You could play mech like Doom which can be a lot of fun. Thors and Widow mines are good against light air units, but if your opponent is going all out air you'll want to throw in (lots more than usual) upgraded Vikings into your army, maybe a Battlecruiser or two in some cases, instead of just relying on marines. Or just mass ghosts and nukes - can be very entertaining







(but difficult to pull off until you get used to doing multipronged attacks).


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11580768387

Better but still more to go. Ps I'm ghost rushing when that goes live.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have a basic question. I love missile turrets for defense against airborne attacks. Is there an equivalent against ground units? In the campaign you eventually obtain the automated bunker guns. What can I do other than lots of soldiers.
> 
> In general I am grappling with what terran units have the flexibility to face both ground and air units.


The bunker is the closest thing Terran has to a land-hitting turret.


----------



## OCNKenobi

Planetary fortress with repair can be unstoppable against ground units.


----------



## OCNKenobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The bunker is the closest thing Terran has to a land-hitting turret.


Can't go wrong with bunkers. You can salvage them for 100 minerals each when your ready to attack.


----------



## DoomDash

I love my PF's. Even better with the range and armor upgrade.

It's surprising how many people don't know thors actually outrange PF's before the upgrade.

Pretty big news http://www.ongamers.com/articles/lionsgate-s-sponsors-starcraft-2-tournament-on-twitch-and-mlg-for-ender-s-game/1100-801/

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I hope someone from Blizzard watches his stream. I didn't manage to watch it for long, but it seems he's abusing swarm hosts in all matchups. Some of the most boring games I've ever seen.


Oh he is, but I'm glad because Blizzard still doesn't understand how bad it is. Stephano is an abusive player. King patch Zerg.


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OCNKenobi*
> 
> Can't go wrong with bunkers. You can salvage them for 100 minerals each when your ready to attack.


How do you do this? I have often wanted to salvage something, but I do not know how?


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tacoboy*
> 
> I've never played Starcraft.
> Thought I would play original Starcraft first, then play Starcraft II.
> Or is playing Original Starcraft a waste of time and Starcraft II is just so much better?


I know you guys probably already know about this, but this Starcraft 1 & Brood War mod in Starcraft II is rather fun. I have been enjoying it quite a bit.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-episode-1-rebel-yell/

These are not as cool as the actual campaign missions in WoL and HOTS, but still rather entertaining if you have played the tar out of everything else.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OCNKenobi*
> 
> Can't go wrong with bunkers. You can salvage them for 100 minerals each when your ready to attack.


its not 100% return, only 75%.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What was stupid about the picture, dude? Have you lost your mind?! You yell "Silence" amidst the silence, and all of a sudden I'm the bad guy for posting a picture that says "I didn't get what this was about"? You're acting seriously delusional right now.
> 
> I hope you make a note of it and calm the fuzz down, because your attitude is so out of place.


Lol.. Im delusional. Yep. Uh hu


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol.. Im delusional. Yep. Uh hu


Yep. Uh hu. Ho hey. Ha lala. Let's just make funny sounds instead of explaining ourselves like grown men.







The thing is, now that you definitely know what the picture meant, you either lack the balls to say you've been mistaken and apologize for you behavior, OR you are delusional and keep thinking I meant something offensive by it. In which case, please, entertain me - what exactly offended you? And this time answer with more than "LOL" and "UH HU".


----------



## DoomDash

Can we move on you two? Who cares ignore each other.


----------



## ronnin426850

I care, I want to know why I am being disliked. Aside from obsessing over people who insult me.


----------



## poroboszcz

Settle it in a BO5 showmatch!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I care, I want to know why I am being disliked. Aside from obsessing over people who insult me.


I am going to say this as reserved and calm as I can.

You said you didnt care. Im just trying to not get any deeper in it than needed and not get another infraction. Now it is about my ballz and if I have any. So, you just gotta drag it out now.

Yes, I freaking thought your picture was sarcastic. In my opinion you came off as a dick. It is also my experience in posts long past that you come off sarcastic in some discussions with others. I did not want to get into an evidence war because the next thing you will make me do is sift through thousands of posts to give an example.

You may not have meant them that way, but until now I had no other reason to believe you meant otherwise.

Now, for the record I did not cuss you or anything. I see no reason to act like the sky fell and no longer be qualified as an 'adult'. I can see how this would look ridiculous and for that I apologize.

Your picture illustrates exactly what I felt you meant and that is 'whhhaaatt?? what a moron'. I dont think that was necessary and I think it was stupid choice. I can understand why you didnt follow my gest and how it seemed silly but I was being just that, silly. I said it because the thread was nuclear for a few days and it was nice for once. Then it was dead for 4 days. So, I acted like I was the reason it went dormant by saying "silence". There was even one other who played along by saying " I keel u"but not you, or so it seemed at the time to me. You came off as a person that thought I was dumb for doing it, at least in my opinion.

I wanted to move on and not do this here, because people dont want to see it. I didnt feel like my joint pain with typing it on my phone was worth it either. However, I just could not be the bigger one and ignore your rebuttals. I always had to say something. I also attempted to down play and degrade how much I cared about what you said with lol and my "short sounds" that apparently got you heated. Lol, childish but affective.

My apologies for misunderstanding you and hurting your feelings by saying I dont like you. I dont even know you. I only knew your comments.

Lastly, dont ever question my balls again.


----------



## DoomDash

ANYWAY.

I saw this on reddit today, and was thinking "Wow this will be nice, finally the devs will be able to communicate with us better and maybe listen". I couldn't be more disappointed. It seems like David Kim is nothing more than a robot in answer questions, and he had an extremely hard time admitting to problems or design issues. I hate that he picks and chooses the questions, I wish it was just in order and for a day not just an hour. Seriously felt like the game is gaining nothing from him. I would rather someone who seems like they had some history with SC1 be in charge of Starcraft philosophy.

I hope he gets fired or demoted. It's seriously hard to see this game in this state right now. People quitting and retiring left and right, and I really do blame Blizzard for letting this happen. Anyone who remembers SCII in WoL will tell you how much potential it seemed to have.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> ...


Fair enough







Thank you and I am sorry I came off as sarcastic. It was never meant, as probably with 98% of the other cases when I came off the same way. I assure you I am not trying to be an 'butt opening', I just take personal remarks personally. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I do, it's how I am







I am very glad that the situation is resolved now. Have a very nice day


----------



## DoomDash

It was like watching swarm hosts do battle in here.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Fair enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you and I am sorry I came off as sarcastic. It was never meant, as probably with 98% of the other cases when I came off the same way. I assure you I am not trying to be an 'butt opening', I just take personal remarks personally. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I do, it's how I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am very glad that the situation is resolved now. Have a very nice day


How do you deal with the ladder then, where every second person had sex with your mother, wishes you cancer and believes you're a 12 years old obese ******ed kid playing an op race with no skill and luck only?









Btw I think one way of improving swarm hosts would be to make locusts cost money, like interceptors.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> How do you deal with the ladder then, where every second person had sex with your mother, wishes you cancer and believes you're a 12 years old obese ******ed kid playing an op race with no skill and luck only?











Guess I don't love SC2 nearly as much as I love OCN


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Btw I think one way of improving swarm hosts would be to make locusts cost money, like interceptors.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11423022593?page=2#28

I agree. Free units are bad. Energy is one thing, and minerals as well.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11423022593?page=2#28
> 
> I agree. Free units are bad. Energy is one thing, and minerals as well.


Blizzard know this, I bet they deliberately made them free. Still don't know what exactly there were thinking this would achieve...


----------



## EliteReplay

i still have big hope on LOVT to address more of the issue SC2 has right now, which for me im OK with,

we need more fun in the game, more rides, more harrasment options, we need more dinamics between the units
i dont want to compare but we need more broodwarish on SC2, even tho BW is hard to play is still fun even like 15years later.

i hope in LOVT the can introduce/remove units or mecanichs that at least can make it close enough to what it was.

looking it as of right now if LOVT doesnt archive anything SC2 scene will be death within the next 3years and every PRO
returning to play BW.


----------



## Sainesk

As much as balance would be nice right now, I can imagine some of the Blizz team thinking "hey, we've still got LOTV to go, and the game/useable units will completely change again then, so why bother fixing it now?"

More profit involved just working on LOTV in my opinion.

Now if they don't take balancing seriously for the final expansion, then i'll be pretty upset


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Fair enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you and I am sorry I came off as sarcastic. It was never meant, as probably with 98% of the other cases when I came off the same way. I assure you I am not trying to be an 'butt opening', I just take personal remarks personally. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I do, it's how I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am very glad that the situation is resolved now. Have a very nice day


You too

As for the show match. I would probably get owned. lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11423022593?page=2#28
> 
> I agree. Free units are bad. Energy is one thing, and minerals as well.


I couldnt imagine paying for locusts. Maybe if they could move underground, or produce while moving. The carrier for example can move and retract interceptors by microing away. Maybe since it is zerg they could burrow just like the swarmhost and move away with the swarmhost. I believe that is the only way it would work. OOOoooorrrr it can be like the reaver. haha. Shoot one and POP!

My opinion is I hate the locust skin. It is dumb looking I think. They could have done better with its modeling. What made me think about it is if the locust would borrow, how would the animation make them look cool? They look like pale banelings. They should be more ling the like.

And another edit....

Swarm hosts are sooooo squishy. Paying for locusts would make the unit completely worthless. Your return for such an investment in resources, and supply would be so poor it would not warrant the use. I am all for positive improvement, but not killing the unit completely unless replaced with another.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> *snip*


so unrealistic - hitting refresh instead of the single sexy protoss ladies link...


----------



## SkipP

What does it mean if I am always playing Protoss? I play Terran, and I am only Bronze (21 losses and 5 wins), but my last 10-12 games were all against Protoss. Moreover, they are often Silver players.

Is there a reason for this?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> What does it mean if I am always playing Protoss? I play Terran, and I am only Bronze (21 losses and 5 wins), but my last 10-12 games were all against Protoss. Moreover, they are often Silver players.
> 
> Is there a reason for this?


Protoss is the best race so understandably there are more people playing it.


----------



## Anti!!

Lawlz @ PRO-toss video
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> What does it mean if I am always playing Protoss? I play Terran, and I am only Bronze (21 losses and 5 wins), but my last 10-12 games were all against Protoss. Moreover, they are often Silver players.
> 
> Is there a reason for this?


Are you having fun skipp?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> What does it mean if I am always playing Protoss? I play Terran, and I am only Bronze (21 losses and 5 wins), but my last 10-12 games were all against Protoss. Moreover, they are often Silver players.
> 
> Is there a reason for this?


It means Protoss is so hot right now, Protoss.

Another sad day for Terrans in Korea btw. Haven't seen a Terran win TVP in korea in ages lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Arg Blink stalkers. This guy lol's how OP protoss is at the end ( plays Z eventually ). I thought I played it well but not good enough i guess.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Arg Blink stalkers. This guy lol's how OP protoss is at the end ( plays Z eventually ). I thought I played it well but not good enough i guess.


I bet if you didn't lose your scouting SCV to a probe, bothered to scout for a third pylon, tech and, at least, if there was an expo, went for a less random build order and didn't float over 1k minerals most of the game it wouldn't seem that OP.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Arg Blink stalkers. This guy lol's how OP protoss is at the end ( plays Z eventually ). I thought I played it well but not good enough i guess.


i have a question why terran doesnt open widow mines? just to prevent any potential all in?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I bet if you didn't lose your scouting SCV to a probe, bothered to scout for a third pylon, tech and, at least, if there was an expo, went for a less random build order and didn't float over 1k minerals most of the game it wouldn't seem that OP.


My build is normally OK vs Blink stalkers. I designed it to be well rounded so it really wasn't important that I scouted anything beyond two gas ( which is why I don't reaper ). If I played bio it would be more important but my marine tank opening is normally fine vs most protoss all ins.

Not a random build order, very very practiced build order. What makes you think it's random? This is basically a 1-1-1 expand build order which is extremely well rounded and lets me go mech safely.

I did float 1k minerals but that's not normal, it's because he killed my extractor and constantly put pressure on me / killed scvs mining gas at BOTH bases. There wasn't much I could do to evenly spend gas and minerals besides add on lots of hellbats. Normally I spend really well it has more to do with him making me gas starved. I also want to add he floated as high as me and he had no excuses.

Anyway given how hard it is for Terran and how much easier it is for protoss I think I handled it well. He actually said the same thing when we were done, in fact he almost lost it because he took his second base extremely late. Was closer than it appeared.

I'm not saying I played it perfect, but easier said than done. I should have put a depot on the outside of my base to get more info though. Also maybe I could have built 1 viking + seeker missled the msc. Would have shut it down, but DAT vision! Hope that's what they fix next.

Anyway this is not a balance complaint, even if it is a balance issue. Personally I loved playing that match. I like TvP right now, but damn is it hard with all the options Protoss has.

My important keys for myself as a mech player :

- Choosing the right amount of X mech unit based on the comp of Protoss. Something that is extremely hard to judge and extremely important. More so in the late game.

- Making sure you ALWAYS are aware of his army position when you are on the offensive.

- Making sure you ALWAYS pick the right locations on the map to do battle. I'm a major abuser of strong mech positions, I think is why I get most of my wins.

Position / Composition are my most important keys for my own style of mech. This is my strong point and this is why I'm over 74% in TvT. Not many people can beat me at this style. v P and Z things are just much more complicated.


----------



## poroboszcz

So, for example, if you saw no 3rd by, say 6 minutes, you'd have already known something's up and would play more defensively, maybe cut some SCVs, keep your CC in main or perhaps scanned his base. I mean you were totally blind until 9 minutes when his attack came. Also, while tanks are generally good vs blink stalker I'm not sure if they are the best on this map, as there's so much area to cover.

Edit: by random build order I mean that it didn't incorporate any scouting or pressure, like most other openings do, and it seemed that when his attack hit you didn't have enough structures to spend your money on units.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> So, for example, if you saw no 3rd by, say 6 minutes, you'd have already known something's up and would play more defensively, maybe cut some SCVs, keep your CC in main or perhaps scanned his base. I mean you were totally blind until 9 minutes when his attack came. Also, while tanks are generally good vs blink stalker I'm not sure if they are the best on this map, as there's so much area to cover.


Yeah I think maybe you are right about the map. I think I would have under estimated this no matter what kind of scouting I did. I felt with the tanks I was safe but I was wrong. I USUALLY am safe, but for sure I didn't respond 100% correctly. I really hate being trapped in my base after I get my first tank out, so I do play a little greedy and try to get that expansion running. Maybe a little better scouting and a bunker or two on the cliffs. Again I just under estimated him going all out on it.

I will try to be more mindful of those things next time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Edit: by random build order I mean that it didn't incorporate any scouting or pressure, like most other openings do, and it seemed that when his attack hit you didn't have enough structures to spend your money on units.


Yeah I may have added my factories on too late. I'll have to watch my replay.

As far as pressure its just not possible vs protoss if I want to go mech. At least I don't see how, you lose map control when stalkers are out, and double gas you can't afford to have marines away in case of oracles. I never pressure I'd rather get my bases up and my mech going full steam.


----------



## poroboszcz

Can't you go mech out of a reaper opening or a widow mine drop? As protoss, the worst thing that can happen is getting widow mines in mineral lines when going for blink stalkers and having no detection at all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Can't you go mech out of a reaper opening or a widow mine drop? As protoss, the worst thing that can happen is getting widow mines in mineral lines when going for blink stalkers and having no detection at all.


Yeah kind of. I don't like reapers because I really like to pump a ton of marines early to help with protoss cheese. I feel like scouting Protoss cheese is great ( with reaper ), but reapers take so much barracks time as well as gas that it really delays marine count and tech. I mean pros like it but I do what I feel is best for me, and I don't like delaying either of those. By the time oracles come out I have enough marines for both my nat and my main usually, so I can play a little more greedy.

As far as widow mine drops I really don't like builds that bank around someone not having "X". Now things like banshees are a bit better since they have much more practical uses and dps over mines. I just think mine drops are SUPER gimmicky and the risk reward isn't worth it to me. Again I really just would rather focus on economy, all in defense ( 50% of games vs toss are all ins ), and getting my mech started.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i have a question why terran doesnt open widow mines? just to prevent any potential all in?


I think widow mines are great, sometimes, and sometimes its not in your control. I don't think it's a good unit to bank on, a lot of its effectiveness is luck. I would rather spend my time on something that at least is more in my control. I do need to use them more late game though, I never use them.


----------



## DoomDash

lol @ soulkey vs reality. GJ blizzard.



Now up to 2 hours***

Do you guys think mech is the problem or swarm hosts. Reddit seems to think mech, I think swarm hosts.


----------



## connectwise

I'm watching that right now and it's damn insane.


----------



## DoomDash

Everyone is arguing : Swarm hosts force this! Mech forces this!

Personally I don't think these problems existed before Swarm Hosts.


----------



## DoomDash

https://twitter.com/LiquidTaeJa/statuses/432838180031561728

https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/432849694394286080


----------



## connectwise

Well, at least the rematch was only 50 min long.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> https://twitter.com/LiquidTaeJa/statuses/432838180031561728
> 
> https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/432849694394286080


can u post a screen shoot here of taeja and naniwa tweet since i cant go there from my job


----------



## FrankoNL

And nobody complains that protoss is OP as hell?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> can u post a screen shoot here of taeja and naniwa tweet since i cant go there from my job


teaja "remove swarm host plz"
naniwa "swarmhost made me lose all passion for this game..."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> And nobody complains that protoss is OP as hell?


I'm pretty sure all Terran players complain that.

Can't believe people are taking Zergs side. I know I'm biased but how can they not pin point the problem to swarm hosts?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> https://twitter.com/LiquidTaeJa/statuses/432838180031561728
> 
> https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/432849694394286080


Well, blizzard better get some other unit for us to use then..


----------



## DoomDash

Lurker + raise supply game to 220~. That's what I'd do.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> teaja "remove swarm host plz"
> naniwa "swarmhost made me lose all passion for this game..."
> I'm pretty sure all Terran players complain that.
> 
> Can't believe people are taking Zergs side. I know I'm biased but how can they not pin point the problem to swarm hosts?


remove swarm hotst?? lol taeja PLZ learn how to play you are a progamer find a solution!!

Naniwa? well i think swarm host are more a problem to protoss than Terran.

blizzard have LOV to address some of the issue with have on HOTS


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> remove swarm hotst?? lol taeja PLZ learn how to play you are a progamer find a solution!!
> 
> Naniwa? well i think swarm host are more a problem to protoss than Terran.
> 
> blizzard have LOV to address some of the issue with have on HOTS


Elite reply.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> remove swarm hotst?? lol taeja PLZ learn how to play you are a progamer find a solution!!
> 
> Naniwa? well i think swarm host are more a problem to protoss than Terran.
> 
> blizzard have LOV to address some of the issue with have on HOTS


Naniwa seems to think they are a problem in general, in fact most pro gamers do. I think you are using David Kim's mindset and just dodging the problem. This isn't something that will be fixed until the swarm host changes or is removed, it's designed that bad.

SCII will be dead by LOTV at this rate. Swarm hosts are killing every match up ( even ZvZ sometimes ).

I'm getting bored watching swarm hosts and blink all ins.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Naniwa seems to think they are a problem in general, in fact most pro gamers do. I think you are using David Kim's mindset and just dodging the problem. This isn't something that will be fixed until the swarm host changes or is removed, it's designed that bad.
> 
> SCII will be dead by LOTV at this rate. Swarm hosts are killing every match up ( even ZvZ sometimes ).
> 
> I'm getting bored watching swarm hosts and blink all ins.


i am not david kim, it just that every time we find something that is hard to deal with... WE NEED TO REMOVE OR CHANGE IT

just no... swarm hots have been in the game for more than a year and now all of sudden they are an issue?
just because they are being used the way the meant to be used?

what about just trying to do something about it as build wise or strategycly wise?

i think Infestor broodlord was way harder than swarm host and we had that on WOL since the release date.

if swarm host need twecking it would be making the locust cost money at least 10 minerals or something.


----------



## DoomDash

People said the same thing when BL/Infestor was popular, but again you're avoiding the issue. It's not something that strategy will beat ( unless you consider this 2 hour long defensive mech/sky terran a good strategy for scii ).

This is the single worst unit I've seen in SCII.

I'm still playing and I'm still figuring out how to beat them before they get more than 10. Once they get critical mass its basically impossible to break. Either timing attacks or 2 hour long games. It doesn't matter if its balanced or not, its boring, and its a terrible unit that forces boring game play.

David Kim could look at this as proof the game is balanced. SO BALANCED people are getting draws.... but who cares because no one wants to watch 2 hour long games, or 1 hour long games ever day now ( which is happening ).


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> People said the same thing when BL/Infestor was popular, but again you're avoiding the issue. It's not something that strategy will beat ( unless you consider this 2 hour long defensive mech/sky terran a good strategy for scii ).
> 
> This is the single worst unit I've seen in SCII.
> 
> I'm still playing and I'm still figuring out how to beat them before they get more than 10. Once they get critical mass its basically impossible to break. Either timing attacks or 2 hour long games. It doesn't matter if its balanced or not, its boring, and its a terrible unit that forces boring game play.
> 
> David Kim could look at this as proof the game is balanced. SO BALANCED people are getting draws.... but who cares because no one wants to watch 2 hour long games, or 1 hour long games ever day now ( which is happening ).


what about mass drop? dropping like 5-8 dropships full of units? since swarm host arent that mobile... im just teoricraftting but something can be done for sure.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> what about mass drop? dropping like 5-8 dropships full of units? since swarm host arent that mobile... im just teoricraftting but something can be done for sure.


Mass drops means you cant defend and swarm hosts destroy your structures. With any holes mech falls apart, and its much harder for Terran to reproduce that army than it is for Zerg. You basically cannot leave your base without huge huge risk. Also if you get your mech army trapped its just over. If you watched the games you would see he really couldn't spare any units.

* wish i didnt care about balance or design at this point *


----------



## EliteReplay

i had a AMD x2 265 was able to play SC2 back in 2010 just fine fps drop once hitting 150+ units.
i had a X3 450 and then i was able to play 2v2 just fine with FPS drop when in battle
i had a FX8150 and i was able to play fine and was getting barelly no drop on fps but some here and there on ultra
and now i have 3930k and i feel that im playing this as the same performance as my previous FX8150
and some times i feel is worst.

so where is the advantange on intel cpu that everyone talk about?


----------



## DoomDash

I would put most of the blame on Blizzard, the game is not optimized well.


----------



## EliteReplay

Well protoss will get nerf again lol


----------



## DoomDash

Swarm hosts aren't the problem Zerg players say. Then why is this happening in every match up? 2 hour matches lol :


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Swarm hosts aren't the problem Zerg players say. Then why is this happening in every match up? 2 hour matches lol :
> *img*


Let me get this right, Stephano doesn't even need to pay attention to the game so he has time to chat, is that the underline of the picture? Or am I missing something?


----------



## DoomDash

It's the fact that swarm hosts are causing 2 hour matches ( like that game ), that are so boring and lame that you can chat during them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Well protoss will get nerf again lol


I like what mana said at the end, I have been trying to explain that to P and Z players forever but they can never admit it. One of the many reasons you don't see any sick foreign terrans.


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure if you guys have seen this but I recently switch my graphics to this hybrid style :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442848

Looks great and still has the benefits of low, as well as the benefits from medium.


----------



## Alex132

Uh, why?

Just leave it maxed out, it's barely a taxing game for a modern GPU.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Uh, why?
> 
> Just leave it maxed out, it's barely a taxing game for a modern GPU.


No, the "pros" have to play at minimum in order to not be "distracted" but the "gorgeous" effects


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Uh, why?
> 
> Just leave it maxed out, it's barely a taxing game for a modern GPU.


Has nothing to do with performance issues, and everything to do with playing the game better.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Uh, why?
> 
> Just leave it maxed out, it's barely a taxing game for a modern GPU.
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with performance issues, and everything to do with playing the game better.
Click to expand...

okaaaaay


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, I'd rather be "distracted" by the clutter than have to look at the ugly graphics with minimal settings. I find the skins, which can't be turned off 100x more distracting the any graphics settings.


----------



## DoomDash

I felt like it helped me quite a bit. Hybrid doesn't look bad either.


----------



## Anti!!

I completely understand the need to see cloaked units, burrowed units and so on, when you are in it to win it. I for one have always ran it max. I like it to be the way blizzard intended it to be. If everyone was forced to play at that setting I believe no one would have an issue. Now days it's advantages have been exposed and people would never want to go back meaning the ones who play at low already.

I remember in bf2 people played on low to remove foliage. I hated it cause I liked high graphics and shadows but someone was always seeing me before I saw them unless I to was low graphics.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I completely understand the need to see cloaked units, burrowed units and so on, when you are in it to win it. I for one have always ran it max. I like it to be the way blizzard intended it to be. *If everyone was forced to play at that setting I believe no one would have an issue.* Now days it's advantages have been exposed and people would never want to go back meaning the ones who play at low already.
> 
> I remember in bf2 people played on low to remove foliage. I hated it cause I liked high graphics and shadows but someone was always seeing me before I saw them unless I to was low graphics.


Yeah, but that could cause so many issues - for one if the max setting requirement is/becomes too high, the game would be pay to win, well, not win but pay for an advantage in frame-rates (up to a certain point beyond which more doesn't really matter).

You have the choice to not be at a disadvantage right now, granted it's lame you cannot have that along with the shiniest graphics.

The game still recommends around max settings for my ancient build, but I just care for the gameplay and not the eye candy which to me can be distracting.


----------



## Anti!!

Well, honestly I thought that went without saying with us all being pc peeps. I know everyone can not run at max. I would estimate 25 percent at least cant run max even though 50 percent of the people I know personally cant.


----------



## poroboszcz

I don't know what kind of settings you guys are using, but I can see cloaked units, forcefields etc. just fine on ultra, which makes me believe that all these custom settings are purely a matter of preference and have nothing to do with "advantage". If you get used to it you'll train your eyes to spot everything on most settings. I don't need to have super clear vision to storm **** anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Playing Protoss I don't think seeing is all that important







.


----------



## ronnin426850

The best solution is for Blizzard to go the extra mile and edit the graphics so that Low doesn't provide any advantage over High. Pay to win is bad, but Be Ugly to win is even worse in my books


----------



## eosgreen

maxed settings make creep and most things distracting. i believe there was a poll on TL and around 75 percent of ppl PREFER low settings such as myself

graphics? its a game that is about skill, if you play the game because it looks cool you are doing it wrong


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> maxed settings make creep and most things distracting. i believe there was a poll on TL and around 75 percent of ppl PREFER low settings such as myself
> 
> graphics? its a game that is about skill, if you play the game because it looks cool you are doing it wrong


Why? Is it you who decides why people should play certain games? Also, why do you think that skill and visuals are mutually exclusive? I know that in this case they are, so don't give me stats and polls. The logic behind your statement is that you are trying to justify low settings with required skill, but the background of "why you think that you can't have both" is missing.


----------



## DoomDash

Graphics on max are nice, personally only for single player for me. Game looks great honestly.


----------



## EliteReplay

i have always play on ultra i dont see the argument of DISTRATING THINGY come from.

and yeah there is a point on the game that playing low or med setting can be better but that just because of the lighting use in SC2 is too bright... nothing else, if blizzard turn light down a little bit on LOV, many players will do ULTRA
and majority dont do ultra because it requeres a very good machine to keep the minimun 60FPS all the time to play well.

right now im playing on MED setting most of the korean pros do that way.


----------



## DoomDash

All the Koreans I've seen play on Low, and now hybrid.

PS: I think once this next balance patch goes live, if I can manage to get near 50% vs Protoss I would make it into masters again.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Why? Is it you who decides why people should play certain games? Also, why do you think that skill and visuals are mutually exclusive? I know that in this case they are, so don't give me stats and polls. The logic behind your statement is that you are trying to justify low settings with required skill, but the background of "why you think that you can't have both" is missing.


I think he knows he isn't the one who decides why people should play certain games. He is just sharing his opinion. His opinion is that as far as he is concerned he thinks starcraft is more about the love of the skill of the game and not the bells and whistles. The whistles may be nice and a plus, but they don't break the game for him. This is the part where I read your signature to remind myself. lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I think he knows he isn't the one who decides why people should play certain games. He is just sharing his opinion. His opinion is that as far as he is concerned he thinks starcraft is more about the love of the skill of the game and not the bells and whistles. The whistles may be nice and a plus, but they don't break the game for him. This is the part where I read your signature to remind myself. lol


oh, ok then







Still his post sounds very much like "listen here, noobs" and not so much like "and according to me.."


----------



## DoomDash

Do any of you guys even play? I never see anyone in our channel!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> oh, ok then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still his post sounds very much like "listen here, noobs" and not so much like "and according to me.."


Lol

@ doomdash

Ahemmm. You know my answer.


----------



## DoomDash

For anyone who plays TvT, this is easily one of the best spots for a tank in this match up ( especially early ). I've survived countless drops because of this one tank buying the time and doing the damage I need.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> For anyone who plays TvT, this is easily one of the best spots for a tank in this match up ( especially early ). I've survived countless drops because of this one tank buying the time and doing the damage I need.


that is a very good spot to put the tank, it basically covers all the sorround on your natural, anything that drop there get shot









how are you feeleing the new patch as a terran tho?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> that is a very good spot to put the tank, it basically covers all the sorround on your natural, anything that drop there get shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how are you feeleing the new patch as a terran tho?


The patch that isn't out yet is going to be really nice for T. The MSC was so strong it made no sense to have 14 vision on top of all the other great spells it had. Blink cool down nerf is way too much of a nerf. At most it should be 10 to 12. Mines is weird, I don't use them enough, maybe I will.


----------



## Anti!!

may be on late tonight with a friend playing teams. Im a his place. Maybe i will see some of you on


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> may be on late tonight with a friend playing teams. Im a his place. Maybe i will see some of you on


Hopefully you relapse







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Hopefully you relapse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


lol..not likely.

I did play one a bit ago making sure the spare dell was setup properly. This guy was top16 gold terran. I had a hard time with hotkeys and still absolutely waxed him. He raged a little. He blamed swarmhosts but never even maxed out against me. I only went muta ling and 9 swarmhosts. My upgrades were all melee too. I was five base to him 3 and it was like stupid easy.

He said swarmhosts are ******ed. They may be, but he was using that as a crutch instead blaming the real issue which was his skill.


----------



## DoomDash

Speaking of TvZ, I love the map Habitation Station LE for this match up this season. I can finally feel powerful opening 2 rax pressure into marine tank again. I'm extremely rusty at this style since it was my WoL style, but swarm hosts aren't nearly as scary as opposed to going mech.

As far as meching vs swarm hosts I've only found two ways to beat them so far:

- If my timing attack fails ( after the initial blue flame surprise harass ), turtle up and go BC.

- Win before 10 swarm hosts are out. After this is becomes a downward slope ( unless you can transition to BC as above ).

Lately I've been doing OK.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Speaking of TvZ, I love the map Habitation Station LE for this match up this season. I can finally feel powerful opening 2 rax pressure into marine tank again. I'm extremely rusty at this style since it was my WoL style, but swarm hosts aren't nearly as scary as opposed to going mech.
> 
> As far as meching vs swarm hosts I've only found two ways to beat them so far:
> 
> - If my timing attack fails ( after the initial blue flame surprise harass ), turtle up and go BC.
> 
> - Win before 10 swarm hosts are out. After this is becomes a downward slope ( unless you can transition to BC as above ).
> 
> Lately I've been doing OK.


That is interesting. I remember when a good terran friend of mine would play against me all the time. It is so fun to see the different openings he would go. He was so versatile. Now again that was in wol and early hots. I would love to see a replay of yours dash showing your pressure opening on hab station.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> That is interesting. I remember when a good terran friend of mine would play against me all the time. It is so fun to see the different openings he would go. He was so versatile. Now again that was in wol and early hots. I would love to see a replay of yours dash showing your pressure opening on hab station.


 TvZonHabitatforAnti.zip 168k .zip file


I play these very badly. I really really am rusty with that style. My upgrades and pressure are a joke. It can be far more effective than I make it seem. Don't worry I'm practicing it, I was pretty good at it in WoL.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=443594

Good read, made me kind of re-think my current ideas on SCII a bit. Maybe I just idealize BW a bit too much too.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=443594
> 
> Good read, made me kind of re-think my current ideas on SCII a bit. Maybe I just idealize BW a bit too much too.










nice article indeed


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=443594
> 
> Good read, made me kind of re-think my current ideas on SCII a bit. Maybe I just idealize BW a bit too much too.


I've been saying that SC2 is better than it's ever been for a long time.

Twitch.tv however has been terrible recently. Now there's the first decent tournament in a long time and all I see is buffering animation with like 10 seconds of action every two minutes. I pretty much can't watch any streams from EU.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I've been saying that SC2 is better than it's ever been for a long time.
> 
> Twitch.tv however has been terrible recently. Now there's the first decent tournament in a long time and all I see is buffering animation with like 10 seconds of action every two minutes. I pretty much can't watch any streams from EU.


I haven't had any problems watching.

Anyone watching IEM? SICK!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Polt is playing like a boss!! Terran hope! Just beat Rain in a very intense series!!


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I haven't had any problems watching.
> 
> Anyone watching IEM? SICK!!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Polt is playing like a boss!! Terran hope! Just beat Rain in a very intense series!!


im at work


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> im at work


Too bad, OMG Jaedong vs Hero esp the last game was insane!


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, that was sick. Poor JD.


----------



## FrankoNL

Final underway!


----------



## DoomDash

This tournament easily the most back and forth I've ever seen. Such amazing games.


----------



## SkipP

I just recently got into multiplayer, but these games are awesome. I do not watch sports, but Starcraft is rather cool to observe at the professional level.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I just recently got into multiplayer, but these games are awesome. I do not watch sports, but Starcraft is rather cool to observe at the professional level.


Yeah I don't watch sports either, SCII is much more entertaining to watch to me. Don't like watching men play with balls.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I don't watch sports either, SCII is much more entertaining to watch to me. Don't like watching men play with balls.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Best show in the Universe!









EDIT: That remind you of something?


----------



## EliteReplay

Replays from cologne has been release!!









http://www.esl.eu/eu/news/237793/

Replay packs from cologne, sao paulo, and singapore


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Replays from cologne has been release!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.esl.eu/eu/news/237793/
> 
> Replay packs from cologne, sao paulo, and singapore


Awesome, time to learn some new builds. I haven't watched any pro replays in a long time.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Awesome, time to learn some new builds. I haven't watched any pro replays in a long time.


yes, im about to switch from protoss to terran in SC2, here we can get lastest builds and stuff


----------



## Sainesk

I was watching a dude yesterday with a stream called something along the lines of Bronze to GM in 24 hours. The guy was doing insane cannon rushes into expand (into void rays







) if he didn't kill them outright, which he pretty much did most of the time. I dunno if he made it since cannons gets old after a while (though all the rage he faced was entertaining) and I just couldn't bear it once he was owning masters. The micro of his probe was insane though - seemed immortal, I don't think he even sent a backup probe most of the time. Can't stand cheese but that stream was fascinating to watch.


----------



## DoomDash

Who was it?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Who was it?


Weedamins, no idea if that's his in game name (since i'm guessing he's playing on an alt-account). Apparently was rank 1 GM for a while on SEA a few months ago, in that video his account is called ArchonUnited.


----------



## DoomDash

Bought the GSL yearly silver pass.


----------



## sweffymo

Wow, PartinG so good..









Also, woot, Bbyong made it through too!


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> yes, im about to switch from protoss to terran in SC2, here we can get lastest builds and stuff


why switch? you've got the best race?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> why switch? you've got the best race?


Self-respect.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Self-respect.


True. That's why i'm still zerg


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Do any of you guys even play? I never see anyone in our channel!


I do, but I'm not near good enough so I just stay out of the channel hahah


----------



## sweffymo

All those salty "bad design" (AKA wishing that the 1/1/1 or winning the game with 10 marines off of a 1-rax expand still worked) tears...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> All those salty "bad design" (AKA wishing that the 1/1/1 or winning the game with 10 marines off of a 1-rax expand still worked)


10 marines off 1 rax? Never seen that work lol.

1-1-1 worked for a month, faded away quick. Not nearly as bad as BL/Infestor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gohan_Nightwing*
> 
> I do, but I'm not near good enough so I just stay out of the channel hahah


Aww come on not everyone here is good.


----------



## Gohan_Nightwing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 10 marines off 1 rax? Never seen that work lol.
> 
> 1-1-1 worked for a month, faded away quick. Not nearly as bad as BL/Infestor.
> Aww come on not everyone here is good.


Hahaha I'm a bronze leaguer. Especially after the change to ranking.


----------



## sweffymo

If the protoss went for anything less than a 3 gate expo in WoL you could just kill them with a pretty small number of marines, even if you did a 1 rax expand.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> If the protoss went for anything less than a 3 gate expo in WoL you could just kill them with a pretty small number of marines, even if you did a 1 rax expand.


That's just not true, at least not at equal skill. I've played from the very beginning @ masters level and that was never the case.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That's just not true, at least not at equal skill. I've played from the very beginning @ masters level and that was never the case.


I concur. I dont know where this info comes from. There is a difference In free lance play you can get away with in plat and below, and legit builds high diamond and up.


----------



## OCNKenobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I concur. I dont know where this info comes from. There is a difference In free lance play you can get away with in plat and below, and legit builds high diamond and up.


This is very true. Plat and above, the game changes completely. The game is decided in seconds, from your build, to the formation of your army going into to attacks and reactions/muti-tasking etc.


----------



## SkipP

I am really getting sick of cheese maneuvers, especially on maps where you are close together. I have had probes dropping crap in my home area to Terran reaper rushes (Zerg cheese I have been able to counter okay), and it just ruins the game. I do not mind losing (and I lose more than I win), but I hate crap like this because it makes the game not fun.

I was playing non-stop, and after a bunch of matches against Protoss on the same stupid map (where we are both at the top on either side with gold crystal in the middle), I just have not played for days. And it sucks because I went from number 35 to number 5 in my bronze league. I was finally starting to win some games, and now I just play cheesers where the matches last 3-5 minutes. Who likes to do this?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That's just not true, at least not at equal skill. I've played from the very beginning @ masters level and that was never the case.


well i played SC2 since the very biggining and i have to say terran was always on top in builds.

1rax fe was able to survive to anything basically... back on wol protoss has to go blind every single pvt robo
other wise u were death to a cloack banshee and if u went robo and terran was just doing a CC inside his base
you were behind because of the mules...

then the 6barrack scv all in was popular back when scv had 60hp
then it was the 1/1/1 that was basically unstoppable. to certain point and much more on short maps

now terran is balanced i have to say.


----------



## DoomDash

It was a good time for Terran back then but it was never like current PvT is now even in 1-1-1 days. I've been watching for the last two months the amount of Terrans beating Protoss is the lowest I've seen anyone lose a match up since the game came out. Polt is really the only exception to the rule. As a Terran viewer it's just depressing.

I really wonder if any of these changes will effect the MU beyond timing attacks for Terran. Still seems Terran struggles in the late game as well as the mid-game.

I think I would have liked a ghost cost change again rather than the energy upgrade being applied and removed. 175/100? 150/125? The cost of ghosts is quite ridiculous.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It was a good time for Terran back then but it was never like current PvT is now even in 1-1-1 days. I've been watching for the last two months the amount of Terrans beating Protoss is the lowest I've seen anyone lose a match up since the game came out. Polt is really the only exception to the rule. As a Terran viewer it's just depressing.
> 
> I really wonder if any of these changes will effect the MU beyond timing attacks for Terran. Still seems Terran struggles in the late game as well as the mid-game.
> 
> I think I would have liked a ghost cost change again rather than the energy upgrade being applied and removed. 175/100? 150/125? The cost of ghosts is quite ridiculous.


i dont remember how protoss was able to break this 1/1/1 opening? is there a thread?


----------



## DoomDash

I can't remember for sure but I'm pretty sure that they just got used to it. I can't think of any units that were involved with the push that got nerfed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I am really getting sick of cheese maneuvers, especially on maps where you are close together. I have had probes dropping crap in my home area to Terran reaper rushes (Zerg cheese I have been able to counter okay), and it just ruins the game. I do not mind losing (and I lose more than I win), but I hate crap like this because it makes the game not fun.
> 
> I was playing non-stop, and after a bunch of matches against Protoss on the same stupid map (where we are both at the top on either side with gold crystal in the middle), I just have not played for days. And it sucks because I went from number 35 to number 5 in my bronze league. I was finally starting to win some games, and now I just play cheesers where the matches last 3-5 minutes. Who likes to do this?


It's part of the game. If you're suspecting cheese just scout earlier and react. In PvP you may want to place your first pylon near the ramp to make sure you see any probe going in early.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i dont remember how protoss was able to break this 1/1/1 opening? is there a thread?


IIRC protoss just started expanding earlier to get the economy faster before the 1/1/1 push would come. The unit composition involved mainly zealots and immortals, with few stalkers to engage mid map and try to delay the engagement. I still see 1/1/1 occasionally, with some variations, e.g. widow mine drop into 1/1/1. But it's much easier to stop now with a nexus cannon.

Maps make a difference as well. I remember how strong 1/1/1 was on Xel'naga caverns.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It's part of the game. If you're suspecting cheese just scout earlier and react. In PvP you may want to place your first pylon near the ramp to make sure you see any probe going in early.
> IIRC protoss just started expanding earlier to get the economy faster before the 1/1/1 push would come. The unit composition involved mainly zealots and immortals, with few stalkers to engage mid map and try to delay the engagement. I still see 1/1/1 occasionally, with some variations, e.g. widow mine drop into 1/1/1. But it's much easier to stop now with a nexus cannon.
> 
> Maps make a difference as well. I remember how strong 1/1/1 was on Xel'naga caverns.


yes the popular Huk`s 20 supply nexus


----------



## DoomDash

This was always my favorite thing to do in the old ladder maps, glad we finally have a spot back!!!



<3 2 rax rine tank.


----------



## poroboszcz

This is why I prefer to ladder on Korean server. The most BM you get are manner mules. Any EU player would be raging hard after how many SCV's I killed in this game.



Also the way he said it sounds to me like some Dragonball character: "Your energy level must have increased in the second fight. I can't defeat you right now. We shall meet again soon."


----------



## DoomDash

While its nice not to get rage or QQ koreans are generally pretty boring winners too. Say what you will but some of the most exciting people to watch were BM as hell. Naniwa / Idra.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> While its nice not to get rage or QQ koreans are generally pretty boring winners too. Say what you will but some of the most exciting people to watch were BM as hell. Naniwa / Idra.


in Esport there should be always people like this thos called BAD BOYS

Idra, Naniwa, Deezer, CombatEX, there was another guy but i not sure of the name

Starcraft scene neeeds people like this to mix things up a little bit and not let people get borring with the same
stuff.
bad that CombatEX was never allow to stream on teamliquid... the mod and admins on that site dont allow you to express yourself.
they just dont like people that doesnt agree with them which for me is bad...

for example: when Haypro announced his retirement...
there were people saying at last... and got banned
just becase they didnt like haypro thats bad... if i didnt like him and i say glad you retired since u didnt do much on this anyways.... i could have been banned but i ddint say it....

there is not liberty of expression on that site.

Deezer and CombatEX where my favorite players and it comes to make other rage, QQ, or just troll.


----------



## poroboszcz

There are some entertaining Koreans as well, like MC or Parting and on the other hand there are players who rage, but are not entertaining like Nerchio. As for Naniwa I actually like watching him play because of his skill and pretty unique style, more then because of his personality which is downright awkward.

Anyway it's nice to watch some drama in the tournaments, but when I ladder, I prefer not be insulted by some kid every second game. I don't find it entertaining.


----------



## ronnin426850

Today was my first game in half a year, I was happy to discover that I have kept my level for the most part







I hope I will be able to play more soon


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Today was my first game in half a year, I was happy to discover that I have kept my level for the most part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope I will be able to play more soon


Yea it is always good to find out you still got it.


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> yes the popular Huk`s 20 supply nexus


I do not understand your comment. Can you elaborate?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I do not understand your comment. Can you elaborate?


this is what im talking about... in other for you to have a change to stop the 1/1/1 from terran... protoss back on wol had to do a lot of things
one of them was this build that HUK a Progamer from Teamliquid invented

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223726


----------



## DoomDash

Widow mine one is cool / interesting ( Patch feb 28 ):
Quote:


> Widow Mine splash damage increased from 40 to 40 +40 shields
> We've seen a little confusion surrounding this change and we'd like to clarify that it does not change the Widow Mine's single target damage. As for the splash damage, this is how it'll work:
> 
> • Up to 1.25 radius, splash damage will increase from 40 to 40 +40 vs. shields.
> • From 1.25 to 1.5 radius, splash damage will increase from 20 to 20 +20 vs. shields.
> • From 1.5 to 1.75 radius, splash damage will increase from 10 to 10 +10 vs. shields.
> 
> Hydralisk attack delay decreased from .83 to .75
> We believe this change is good for all three match ups after testing. In ZvP, it seems to make a significant difference even though it's turning out to be not as big as we initially thought before we started testing.
> 
> Mothership Core vision decreased from 14 to 9
> After testing, this change is turning out to be quite a bit of a nerf for Protoss in terms of early scouting. It also makes the army vs. army case a bit weaker for Protoss in terms of the vision the Mothership Core provides, especially when vision is critically needed, such as during Feedback vs. EMP battles.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Widow mine one is cool / interesting ( Patch feb 28 ):


that would make terran better for sure


----------



## poroboszcz

I agree. Seems like a clever way to nerf twilight openings in PvT.


----------



## ronnin426850

Just won my placement match vs a platinum zerg. I still can't believe it!


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Just won my placement match vs a platinum zerg. I still can't believe it!


Way to go.


----------



## r3d33m3r

I love the Hydra Buffs! I saw Jaedong going mass Hydra against Protoss^^


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3d33m3r*
> 
> I love the Hydra Buffs! I saw Jaedong going mass Hydra against Protoss^^


zerg is really strong at the begining of the game, hydra buff would makes them really really good a midgame


----------



## Narokuu

Not sure if this is where people talk about this but, im new to Starcraft not new to RTS.
trying to find a few people to paly with for fun, and see if i have what it takes to play ranked games. as is said im new.
my Battletag is Narokuu#1344 Im really comfortable with terran, but im trying to learn Zerg. Just need someone to tell me what im doing wrong.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narokuu*
> 
> Not sure if this is where people talk about this but, im new to Starcraft not new to RTS.
> trying to find a few people to paly with for fun, and see if i have what it takes to play ranked games. as is said im new.
> my Battletag is Narokuu#1344 Im really comfortable with terran, but im trying to learn Zerg. Just need someone to tell me what im doing wrong.


This would definitely be the place. Some here still play and can help. Also, everyone who has played the campaign or against the ai should never hesitate to play online. Just learn from your loses and the more you play the better you will get. Lastly search online for how toos. There is a great zerg guide on the teamliquid.net forums. Some of the best players will have current guides already written that explain situational strategies and cover basic skills and mechanics.


----------



## Narokuu

Awesome! i will use that information as a guide and keep learning.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narokuu*
> 
> Awesome! i will use that information as a guide and keep learning.


The most most most important thing is to remember to have fun


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The most most most important thing is to remember to have fun


Way Way way this.


----------



## EliteReplay

are there any chances that blizzard will implement more CPU cores to next expo?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> are there any chances that blizzard will implement more CPU cores to next expo?


There is always a chance. However I highly, highly doubt it because it would warrant a pretty major engine tweak.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> There is always a chance. However I highly, highly doubt it because it would warrant a pretty major engine tweak.


Depends on how the engine itself is made. I have no insight on it whatsoever, but it might just be the case of changing a single variable


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Depends on how the engine itself is made. I have no insight on it whatsoever, but it might just be the case of changing a single variable


Due to the way the SC2 engine works (lock-step) it would take a _lot_ of work, to the point that you may as well just make a new engine entirely.

Multithreading can introduce random occurrences and deviations due to the way that the thread scheduling will now occur. You can introduce synchronisation mechanisms but really you won't gain much performance and it'll be an absolute pain to work with, because while the synchronisation is happening all threads have to wait for the currently working threads to finish.

There is an article here which goes more in depth. It's about Age of Empires but the exact same principle applies.
http://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs538/readings/papers/terrano_1500arch.pdf


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Due to the way the SC2 engine works (lock-step) it would take a _lot_ of work, to the point that you may as well just make a new engine entirely.
> 
> Multithreading can introduce random occurrences and deviations due to the way that the thread scheduling will now occur. You can introduce synchronisation mechanisms but really you won't gain much performance and it'll be an absolute pain to work with, because while the synchronisation is happening all threads have to wait for the currently working threads to finish.
> 
> There is an article here which goes more in depth. It's about Age of Empires but the exact same principle applies.
> http://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs538/readings/papers/terrano_1500arch.pdf


Thanks! Very interesting


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Due to the way the SC2 engine works (lock-step) it would take a _lot_ of work, to the point that you may as well just make a new engine entirely.
> 
> Multithreading can introduce random occurrences and deviations due to the way that the thread scheduling will now occur. You can introduce synchronisation mechanisms but really you won't gain much performance and it'll be an absolute pain to work with, because while the synchronisation is happening all threads have to wait for the currently working threads to finish.
> 
> There is an article here which goes more in depth. It's about Age of Empires but the exact same principle applies.
> http://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs538/readings/papers/terrano_1500arch.pdf


Gasp!! Lurker!

Welcome in.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Gasp!! Lurker!
> 
> Welcome in.


I do lurk here quite a lot.









I don't play SC2 that much anymore, mainly just 2v2's. I used to be masters Protoss back in WoL but I just haven't had the time since HotS came out. Laddering is also too stressful and I don't really find it fun anymore.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I do lurk here quite a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't play SC2 that much anymore, mainly just 2v2's. I used to be masters Protoss back in WoL but I just haven't had the time since HotS came out. Laddering is also too stressful and I don't really find it fun anymore.


same here, i was master back on wol... i havent touch that much HOST just follow tournaments from time to time.


----------



## SkipP

No stress for me, because I am safely in the Bronze League. I just have fun. I also found Husky's Bronze League heroes, which is awesome. After Episode 60 I could not breathe I was laughing so hard. I submitted one of my flawless matches as well.

Overall, Starcraft II does not really take much in terms of computer resources. I have a mid-range graphics card and an old, cheap CPU, and I can run it maxed out. Anyone with an i3 or better and a $100+ graphics card should be fine. I do not see why multi-core utilization would be necessary. Unlike, say Crysis 3, which makes my radiator boiling hot.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I do lurk here quite a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't play SC2 that much anymore, mainly just 2v2's. I used to be masters Protoss back in WoL but I just haven't had the time since HotS came out. Laddering is also too stressful and I don't really find it fun anymore.


So many people agree. Laddering is stressful if you are trying to get as high as you can and stay there. I didnt ladder in sc1 for this reason. I don't like to be told I'm doing worse via dropping rank and league. I just want to have fun. Sc1 abolished the ladder ranking system and people just played melee maps and had fun. The ones who wanted a ladder system moded their game to support it. I only played melee and had a blast.


----------



## SkipP

I have been playing unranked, and wow, it is so much fun. The weird part is that I swear that I win more games when playing unranked.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have been playing unranked, and wow, it is so much fun. The weird part is that I swear that I win more games when playing unranked.


Makes perfect sense. If you're anything like me then you'll just stress out, you won't think clearly and you'll end up panicking in unexpected situations.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have been playing unranked, and wow, it is so much fun. The weird part is that I swear that I win more games when playing unranked.


thats because you dont get nervous and you lose your ladder anciety


----------



## Narokuu

im horrible at Sc2 i cant even win any unranked 1v1 games, im still leaning hahaha


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narokuu*
> 
> im horrible at Sc2 i cant even win any unranked 1v1 games, im still leaning hahaha


I found your problem. You are leaning instead of learning! XD

Have you been doing your research? You should focus on mechanics not builds. Build orders come after you have mastered or improved your mechanics. Just get a decent all around build. Just one. That way you can memorize it then improve mechanics. I can get to diamond league with one macro build with solid mechanics only.


----------



## Narokuu

o wow, ill have to get a coach, i have so many games I'm playing at once right now its crazy. I'm almost gold in league of legends. trying my hardest right now to get there.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narokuu*
> 
> o wow, ill have to get a coach, i have so many games I'm playing at once right now its crazy. I'm almost gold in league of legends. trying my hardest right now to get there.


man this is SC2 thread


----------



## Audio

High skill players don't play unranked, there's no point. Ladder anxiety dissapears just by playing the game. Testing new builds against bad players doesn't prove anything, so again no reason to play unranked. The first requirement to being decent at sc2 is experience, because it's a game about repetition. Anyone worth their salt in this game doesn't get ladder anxiety, simply because they've a lot of games under their belt. Playing unranked isn't an efficient way to improve, but the games about having fun so do whatever you please.

AKA you probably win more games in unranked because the skill level of the general "unranked" population is low instead of matched.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Audio*
> 
> High skill players don't play unranked, there's no point. Ladder anxiety dissapears just by playing the game. Testing new builds against bad players doesn't prove anything, so again no reason to play unranked. The first requirement to being decent at sc2 is experience, because it's a game about repetition. Anyone worth their salt in this game doesn't get ladder anxiety, simply because they've a lot of games under their belt. Playing unranked isn't an efficient way to improve, but the games about having fun so do whatever you please.
> 
> AKA you probably win more games in unranked because the skill level of the general "unranked" population is low instead of matched.


Unless they've changed things in the ~10 months since I last played, the matchmaking system doesn't care whether you're playing Ranked or Unranked - you just get matched against a person of similar skill (MMR). It was (is?) possible to queue Unranked and face off against a Ranked player. The only potential imbalance there stems from the fact that the Unranked guy might be trying some oddball strategy since he doesn't really care about the outcome.

tl;dr - Ranked vs Unranked doesn't mean anything in terms of player skill.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> Unless they've changed things in the ~10 months since I last played, the matchmaking system doesn't care whether you're playing Ranked or Unranked - you just get matched against a person of similar skill (MMR). It was (is?) possible to queue Unranked and face off against a Ranked player. The only potential imbalance there stems from the fact that the Unranked guy might be trying some oddball strategy since he doesn't really care about the outcome.
> 
> tl;dr - Ranked vs Unranked doesn't mean anything in terms of player skill.


+1


----------



## Anti!!

Exactly, and just cause you don't get ladder anxiety doesn't mean other people that get it aren't worth salt. Yea, you learn how manage it better but it doesn't go away. I was masters and the only thing that lessened it was frequency of play. Everyone has their opinion.

Unranked and ranked both use the same mmr system. I played the same caliber people on both.


----------



## Mwarren

It's ashame SC2 doesn't have much of a 2v2/3v3/4v4 competitive scene....I find those games vastly more fun to play and watch plus they relieve stress instead of stressing you out like the ladder does.

If anyone is interested in playing 2v2/3v3/4v4 feel free to message me!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> It's ashame SC2 doesn't have much of a 2v2/3v3/4v4 competitive scene....I find those games vastly more fun to play and watch plus they relieve stress instead of stressing you out like the ladder does.
> 
> If anyone is interested in playing 2v2/3v3/4v4 feel free to message me!


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


haha


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Lol, lot's of cheese sure but the games are more exciting in my opinion and 2v2 is still very fun to play a long with 3v3 and 4v4.

You can sit back and relax while playing 2v2 or more whereas you can't do that with 1v1 unless you want to lose.


----------



## EliteReplay

im wondering why do we say cheese to a strategy that is semi gimmicky or all in?

what does cheese? have to do with RTS or Strategy?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


This is true. Lol

Edit: The informal meaning of cheesy is cheap, unpleasant, and blatantly unauthentic.

Correlation? Quick all in play that is cheap, unpleasant to deal with, and a tad more unintuitive than highly skilled macro games.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> im wondering why do we say cheese to a strategy that is semi gimmicky or all in?
> 
> what does cheese? have to do with RTS or Strategy?


Quote:


> During a broadcast game on September 16, 2009, OGN commentator Um Jae Kyung (엄재경) briefly discussed the difference between a bunker rush and a "cheese" rush. According to his explanation, the term "cheese" originated from the word "cheater's" (words in Korean are sometimes shortened by the middle syllables, so 치터즈 [chi tuh zu] would become 치즈 [chi zu]). The strategy is characterized by, as opposed to a simple bunker rush, a practically unbeatable combination of most of the Terran's SCVs and a very quickly assembled group of marines. Because both Protoss and Zerg basic units are unranged, SCVs can effectively prevent the ranged marines from being destroyed by obstructing the path between the units, giving the marines a tremendous (and thus unfair) edge.
> The usage of the term "cheese" has expanded to include most "all-in" strategies which involve a great sacrifice of economy, though some StarCraft communities use the term even more loosely to include mid-game strategies.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*


haha that was nice, i was all the time wondering why the called that cheesy instead of gimmicky or all in.

+rep when get home


----------



## Anti!!

Well crap. Lol


----------



## zigziglar

Hello SC2 dudes! What's the hot topic?


----------



## Anti!!

Just twerk using his OP mod powas to trounce us in his vast knowledge of the history of cheese on SC. XD


----------



## zigziglar

Good old cheese. It's funny ... in the past 20 odd games I've played, the only time I've been cheesed was when I was going for a 9 or 10 pool myself (which tends to hard-counter a lot of early game cheese). I got BMed pretty hardcore one game where my opponent had attempted a proxy two gate hidden in my main and got shut down convincingly by my 9 pool.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Good old cheese. It's funny ... in the past 20 odd games I've played, the only time I've been cheesed was when I was going for a 9 or 10 pool myself (which tends to hard-counter a lot of early game cheese). I got BMed pretty hardcore one game where my opponent had attempted a proxy two gate hidden in my main and got shut down convincingly by my 9 pool.


hahahahah A youtube recording of that would be funny to watch. I don't have sc2 installed anymore so I can't watch replays either.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> hahahahah A youtube recording of that would be funny to watch. I don't have sc2 installed anymore so I can't watch replays either.


It wasn't as funny as the next cheese I encountered. Some barcode Zerg was trash talking from the get go (alarm bells go off when that happens). Next thing I know I'm dealing with a 6 or 7 pool. I manage to minimise drone losses until my lings pop so he pulls all his drones from home (honestly not sure why he didn't just pull them to begin wtih), by the time they get to my base I have a queen and double the drone count and nearly equal lings. 10 seconds later I'm back to mining with 8 drones and he has no units to speak of. The rage that ensued was hilarious.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> It wasn't as funny as the next cheese I encountered. Some barcode Zerg was trash talking from the get go (alarm bells go off when that happens). Next thing I know I'm dealing with a 6 or 7 pool. I manage to minimise drone losses until my lings pop so he pulls all his drones from home (honestly not sure why he didn't just pull them to begin wtih), by the time they get to my base I have a queen and double the drone count and nearly equal lings. 10 seconds later I'm back to mining with 8 drones and he has no units to speak of. The rage that ensued was hilarious.


Lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> The rage that ensued was hilarious.


Oh this brings memories


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> It wasn't as funny as the next cheese I encountered. Some barcode Zerg was trash talking from the get go (alarm bells go off when that happens). Next thing I know I'm dealing with a 6 or 7 pool. I manage to minimise drone losses until my lings pop so he pulls all his drones from home (honestly not sure why he didn't just pull them to begin wtih), by the time they get to my base I have a queen and double the drone count and nearly equal lings. 10 seconds later I'm back to mining with 8 drones and he has no units to speak of. The rage that ensued was hilarious.


haha that was a good one, hat usually happens to people that play just to win instead to learn...

but from time to time you need to cheesy to get your confidents back if you have been in a losing streak lol


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> haha that was a good one, hat usually happens to people that play just to win instead to learn...
> 
> but from time to time you need to cheesy to get your confidents back if you have been in a losing streak lol


If you're ever feeling down, just play Protoss and all-in until you're happy again.









I remember when I picked up HotS after a few months of not playing, I just 4 gated like 10 games in a row and stomped everyone. It's actually surprising how strong that build still is.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> If you're ever feeling down, just play Protoss and all-in until you're happy again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember when I picked up HotS after a few months of not playing, I just 4 gated like 10 games in a row and stomped everyone. It's actually surprising how strong that build still is.


Surprising to who?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Surprising to who?


To me. The build has been strong since SC2 came out. Even after the warp gate nerf. Once you get into diamond it stops being as effective but up until then if you execute it properly you can stomp every race.


----------



## zigziglar

Nothing more satisfying than holding off a 4 gate. The counter attack just rolls them; they have nothing to their name.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Nothing more satisfying than holding off a 4 gate. The counter attack just rolls them; they have nothing to their name.


as far as i know 4 gate is terrible this days... i didnt know it was a viable strat in 2014


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> as far as i know 4 gate is terrible this days... i didnt know it was a viable strat in 2014


It's pretty terrible in high levels of play. Like I said though, up until diamond you will win the majority of your games if you execute it properly and have decent micro.


----------



## Audio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> It's pretty terrible in high levels of play. Like I said though, up until diamond you will win the majority of your games if you execute it properly and have decent micro.


I just saw a pro game where liquid hero used a 4 gate blink strategy to defeat taeja... It's really one of those things you can throw in your game with proper scouting.


----------



## 123girr

I know this seems out of place, but my SC2 account won't let me post on their threds, so I thought I would come here. I am using windows 8, and when I tried dling sc2 overnight it didn't get anywhere. After the screen falls asleep all my tasks freeze or something of that sort. Does anyone know how I can change that?
Thanks
123girr (username in-game girr)
(they don't alow numarics







)


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> It's pretty terrible in high levels of play. Like I said though, up until diamond you will win the majority of your games if you execute it properly and have decent micro.


To be honest the same is true about almost any other all-in out there.


----------



## zigziglar

It is hard to roach bane bust Terrans these days. If they see it in development, anyway. Double layered wall, a gauntlet of bunkers and a couple of tanks is all they need. And they can easily prepare it in time if they are semi active at scouting. My opponents are generally plat/dia though.


----------



## ronnin426850

I'm low gold this season because I play terrible, and for some reason I keep getting matched with plat and diamond players only!! That sucks! I'm on a 20 game lose streak! I want to play my own rank for a change







Or even silver.


----------



## EliteReplay

i dont know if this was posted before... but we can get some nice builds from here









http://www.eslgaming.com/article/world-championship-starcraft-ii-replays-released


----------



## VaiFanatic

I'd really love to get back into competitive playing, especially for ones, but I've gotten so slow and uncoordinated.

Even in in 3s or 4s under the pressure of an early cheese I begin to crack and don't have much of a solid build to work for.

Though I think this is something beyond even StarCraft, as tasks I could normally accomplish with ease have become somewhat of a mental struggle. Perhaps school and work have just worn me down to just above the threshold of losing my mind.

In the original StarCraft, I was amazing with Zerg; they're still my best race in SC2, but I'm not nearly as formidable as I once was.

I've been doing a lot of AI Matchmaking against Elite, and unranked 3s as Random to broaden my perspective of the units of other races. Know your enemy, as they say, but I've found these "studies" to be less beneficial than I had expected.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'm low gold this season because I play terrible, and for some reason I keep getting matched with plat and diamond players only!! That sucks! I'm on a 20 game lose streak! I want to play my own rank for a change
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or even silver.


What server are you playing on? SEA was like that for me when I was in Silver. I've moved to NA and it is much more consistent. Match making seems to work a lot better the more people there are to diversify the pool.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> I'd really love to get back into competitive playing, especially for ones, but I've gotten so slow and uncoordinated.
> 
> Even in in 3s or 4s under the pressure of an early cheese I begin to crack and don't have much of a solid build to work for.
> 
> Though I think this is something beyond even StarCraft, as tasks I could normally accomplish with ease have become somewhat of a mental struggle. Perhaps school and work have just worn me down to just above the threshold of losing my mind.
> 
> In the original StarCraft, I was amazing with Zerg; they're still my best race in SC2, but I'm not nearly as formidable as I once was.
> 
> I've been doing a lot of AI Matchmaking against Elite, and unranked 3s as Random to broaden my perspective of the units of other races. Know your enemy, as they say, but I've found these "studies" to be less beneficial than I had expected.


the only thing good you will get by practicing vs the Computer is better mechanics nothings else
you just need get a friend and practice vs him all they long and at the end of the month you will be better.

and then those cheese play wont affect that much your mentallity.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> the only thing good you will get by practicing vs the Computer is better mechanics nothings else
> you just need get a friend and practice vs him all they long and at the end of the month you will be better.
> 
> and then those cheese play wont affect that much your mentallity.


Unfortunately, all of my friends have transferred exclusively to League of Legends, and refuse to play anything else. It's become rather annoying.

I'm stuck with trying to make new friends, which I can admit is not my forte.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> Unfortunately, all of my friends have transferred exclusively to League of Legends, and refuse to play anything else. It's become rather annoying.
> 
> I'm stuck with trying to make new friends, which I can admit is not my forte.


Ditto. Friggen LOL


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Ditto. Friggen LOL


The funny thing is, they claim they're not addicted, but when I tell them to take a break, they can't. But they tell me they can quit if they choose to









Every conversation is now full of LOL memes and all that junk. I'm losing my mind.


----------



## zigziglar

LOL. They claim SC2 isn't fun because you can't play it casually and yet in order to play LOL properly, you need to have a reasonable understanding of a hundred character's abilities and a thousand items/upgrades.

More like "I play LOL because I suck at games and need to hide behind a team so I can blame everyone but myself". :/


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> LOL. They claim SC2 isn't fun because you can't play it casually and yet in order to play LOL properly, you need to have a reasonable understanding of a hundred character's abilities and a thousand items/upgrades.
> 
> More like "I play LOL because I suck at games and need to hide behind a team so I can blame everyone but myself". :/


The funny thing is, they play ranked and complain about it some much. I've told them they need to become career players with the attitudes they're having.


----------



## zigziglar

You know what annoys me even more about lol? There are actually a lot of talented RTS gamers wasting their attention on it when they could potentially be gracing the SC2 ESL scene and furthering e-sports. My brother, for example, maintained top 5 in the world at Empire Earth for years and is rather gifted at complex RTS games. Now he just carries 4 other players in lol. Such a waste.


----------



## Narokuu

I would play SC2 more than League if i could find people that are willing to teach me the ropes, strats and do it in a nice way. I play League of legends and im not a high ranking player.
but i have been playing ti since it came out, and i played DOTA before that, and HoN so it was an easy transfer. I never played Starcraft 1 and only got SC2 about 3 months ago. there is no need to hate on any of the games, people change, and want to play what they choose. I enjoy league because there are multiple modes. Casual and hardcore ranked grinding. i know [email protected] has the same thing. BUt i prefer to play with friends when it comes to SC2, but i have none. Literally NONE. So i sit here and rank in league and listen to Vocaloid hahahaha

Seriously tho [email protected] is a blast i enjoyed the campaign, but i cant get strats down nor can i play fast enough.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narokuu*
> 
> I would play SC2 more than League if i could find people that are willing to teach me the ropes, strats and do it in a nice way. I play League of legends and im not a high ranking player.
> but i have been playing ti since it came out, and i played DOTA before that, and HoN so it was an easy transfer. I never played Starcraft 1 and only got SC2 about 3 months ago. there is no need to hate on any of the games, people change, and want to play what they choose. I enjoy league because there are multiple modes. Casual and hardcore ranked grinding. i know [email protected] has the same thing. BUt i prefer to play with friends when it comes to SC2, but i have none. Literally NONE. So i sit here and rank in league and listen to Vocaloid hahahaha
> 
> Seriously tho [email protected] is a blast i enjoyed the campaign, but i cant get strats down nor can i play fast enough.


I don't mind people changing what they want to play, but they've literally let the game consume them. They spend every waking minute talking about it or trying to play it.

I'd say the same thing for people who don't give StarCraft, or any game for that matter, a break.


----------



## Narokuu

yeah thats 100% agreeable.


----------



## EliteReplay

well after playing WOL for almost 2 years and reaching master level with protoss... i left SC2 for BF3>>BF4 and now i play BF4/Starcraft BW as terran being Protoss before SC2 come out.

i enjoy a lot BF4 and when some one tells me to play SC2 wiht them i dont find it enjoyable anymore like i do again on BW.
and the good thing is i keep watching SC2 news, torunaments and follow pro league too







but i dont play it that much anymore, maybe waiting for LOV to attract me again....

the other day i wanted to play DOTA2 / LOL but i find it really hard for me to get away from BF4 since i love the game.
its really hard to leave what you like so somehow i understand why some one wont like to play sc2 anymore playing lol or any other games

it all comes down to your preference and passion.


----------



## zigziglar

Ya I think it's important to not let one thing consume all your time and energy. I like to mix SC2 up with a variety of games such as single player adventure RPG and shooters like CS:GO, BF4. SC2 is just my favourite RTS. I think it's hard to focus on multiple RTS games because they require so much memorising of build orders and training of mechanics.

My comment in relation to my brother is, in part, a personal grievance because I just wish he'd play SC2 so we can be on the same level when discussing it, but also because he used to be elite in the world of e-sports and now he's settling for mid leagues in a team based game. I think all brothers want to see each other achieving the best they are capable of!

It's like when I was doing power-lifting. He has a much larger frame than me and inherited more of our old man's genetics than I did (he was one of the best wrestlers in our country and an Olympic weight lifter). I tried to get him to lift too because I knew he had way more potential than me, but the lazy bastard couldn't be bothered. There's a lesson to be learnt about not pushing your own priorities on others, I guess! I ended up doing pretty well for myself, but far from elite, like he could've. Oh well.

As for helping noobs at sc2. I'm only really Plat level myself, but I would be happy to teach the basics that got me where I am - assuming you're Zerg. I think a lot of people on SC2 are too "win" oriented and become way too nasty about laddering. There needs to be a better community spirit or the game will die to natural attritian.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Ya I think it's important to not let one thing consume all your time and energy. I like to mix SC2 up with a variety of games such as single player adventure RPG and shooters like CS:GO, BF4. SC2 is just my favourite RTS. I think it's hard to focus on multiple RTS games because they require so much memorising of build orders and training of mechanics.
> 
> My comment in relation to my brother is, in part, a personal grievance because I just wish he'd play SC2 so we can be on the same level when discussing it, but also because he used to be elite in the world of e-sports and now he's settling for mid leagues in a team based game. I think all brothers want to see each other achieving the best they are capable of!
> 
> It's like when I was doing power-lifting. He has a much larger frame than me and inherited more of our old man's genetics than I did (he was one of the best wrestlers in our country and an Olympic weight lifter). I tried to get him to lift too because I knew he had way more potential than me, but the lazy bastard couldn't be bothered. There's a lesson to be learnt about not pushing your own priorities on others, I guess! I ended up doing pretty well for myself, but far from elite, like he could've. Oh well.
> 
> As for helping noobs at sc2. I'm only really Plat level myself, but I would be happy to teach the basics that got me where I am - assuming you're Zerg. I think a lot of people on SC2 are too "win" oriented and become way too nasty about laddering. There needs to be a better community spirit or the game will die to natural attritian.


oh well whats your brothers name?


----------



## Anti!!

I used to play supreme commander 2 and company of heroes as change ups, but like you said I didn't have time to be good at them all. I would just use the others as a break.

I will play bf3 and gt5 on my ps3 now that I don't pc game anymore. I use a mouse and keyboard on bf3.


----------



## zigziglar

His handle was ras, rascat, rasputin etc He was a bit of a Catz of EE. Always pioneering strats and doing things that seemed foolish and winning. He persisted with EE well after the tournaments died and the sponsors moved elsewhere and built himself quite a reputation on the scene, so you might have heard of him. He didn't make it to Europe in that huge world championship 100k tournament because he thought he wasn't allowed to qualify (under 18), but he consistently beat the guy who came third (also from Australia) ViE_Be, as we were all mates and they practiced at home together etc. Be said himself that he reckons ras would've won that championship due to his unpredictable playstyle, as his mechanics were equal.


----------



## DIYDeath

As a player who at their peak was beating Korean masters (was dia league) I quit playing sc2 mainly because I was tired of the stale meta. I came back hoping the staleness would have gotten better but it hasn't and Im convinced its due to poor design. not to be confused with balance, sc2 is mostly balanced.

Then there's the issue of Blizzard's attitude towards sc2 which is a bigger lesson in how not to market a game than ME3 was.

I mean if you base your game on being a esport and appealing to the elite players then the elite players leave you're left with a product that alienates the average player, which is all the game has now. The average joe.

I just hope LotV learns from WoL's balance mistakes (remember the Infestor BL? IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA) and HotS's design mistakes.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> As a player who at their peak was beating Korean masters (was dia league) I quit playing sc2 mainly because I was tired of the stale meta. I came back hoping the staleness would have gotten better but it hasn't and Im convinced its due to poor design. not to be confused with balance, sc2 is mostly balanced.
> 
> Then there's the issue of Blizzard's attitude towards sc2 which is a bigger lesson in how not to market a game than ME3 was.
> 
> I mean if you base your game on being a esport and appealing to the elite players then the elite players leave you're left with a product that alienates the average player, which is all the game has now. The average joe.
> 
> I just hope LotV learns from WoL's balance mistakes (remember the Infestor BL? IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA) and HotS's design mistakes.


i think you are right, but hots is not that borring and stale like wol was lol...


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> i think you are right, but hots is not that borring and stale like wol was lol...


I thought wots was better, the game was still being figured out and games were more intense.

HOTS has longer games that are more drawn out and boring.


----------



## DIYDeath

HotS is just as stale, only difference being all races have viable openers and terran walling off a ramp doesn't make them immune to pressure for the 1st 5 minutes anymore...which makes it less stale...crap lol.

Still, I don't like HotS because it was designed to allow units with low skill caps to dominate to the point where you need disproportionate amounts of effort to combat said unit.

Protoss have the new Void Ray
Terran have Widow Mines
Zerg are unique in the fact they didn't get a low skill ceiling unit that requires a much greater amount of effort to counter than to use.

WoL was a mess, I wouldn't even try to claim that game was balanced because it wasn't though its better now that Vortex and Infestors got nerfed.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Zerg are unique in the fact they didn't get a low skill ceiling unit that requires a much greater amount of effort to counter than to use.


swarm host


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> swarm host


Swarm hosts take plenty of skill to use, clump them and watch AoE decimate, spread them too far apart and watch them get picked off. Then you have to fortify your defensive position as you push forward with creep, spores and Swarm hosts.

That's why I didn't mention them because the skill to use isn't disproportionate to the skill to effectively counter.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Swarm hosts take plenty of skill to use, clump them and watch AoE decimate, spread them too far apart and watch them get picked off. Then you have to fortify your defensive position as you push forward with creep, spores and Swarm hosts.
> 
> That's why I didn't mention them because the skill to use isn't disproportionate to the skill to effectively counter.


You could say a lot of similar stuff about the other units you mentioned.


----------



## FrankoNL

Zerg has nothing to really counter a lot of voidrays. Hydra's get decimated by colossus. Corrupters get owned by voids and mix in a few stalkers and muta's are also useless.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Zerg has nothing to really counter a lot of voidrays. Hydra's get decimated by colossus.


Is this one statement or two?

If you go about the game vs protoss like "we're both gonna sit on our half of the map and then fight at 10-30 minutes" you better bring your infestors swarmhosts and static defense farm or you're gonna have a bad time


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You could say a lot of similar stuff about the other units you mentioned.


Sure, if you want to murder context and not have the decency to bury it properly.

Swarm Hosts are high risk-high reward units that require solid micro to support and good positioning to remain viable vs equally skill opponents.

That's not problematic in the least bit from a design standpoint and the numbers are solid enough from a balance standpoint (it could even use a tiny buff imo).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Is this one statement or two?
> 
> If you go about the game vs protoss like "we're both gonna sit on our half of the map and then fight at 10-30 minutes" you better bring your infestors swarmhosts and static defense farm or you're gonna have a bad time


Depends on how the Protoss plays, a good Protoss player will keep pressure on the zerg so they can't properly expand while maximizing their macro at base to create th unstoppable VR Colossus Deathball that zerg need 3+ remaxes to deal with.

Zerg are super, super fragile at the very start to the point where a cannon contain can utterly wreck even the best zerg players (not to be confused with cannon rush, contain is a branch off of the FFE opener).


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Sure, if you want to murder context and not have the decency to bury it properly.
> 
> Swarm Hosts are high risk-high reward units that require solid micro to support and good positioning to remain viable vs equally skill opponents.
> 
> That's not problematic in the least bit from a design standpoint and the numbers are solid enough from a balance standpoint (it could even use a tiny buff imo).
> Depends on how the Protoss plays, a good Protoss player will keep pressure on the zerg so they can't properly expand while maximizing their macro at base to create th unstoppable VR Colossus Deathball that zerg need 3+ remaxes to deal with.


Yea, but those protoss players, if they choose to play like that, which can actually pull it off against a strong zerg player are off winning many thousands of dollars, not haunting the platinum league ladder. That's where my problem is with 99% of the people complaining

If you're losing when you're a weak player, what do you expect? There are two options:

1; You become a strong player and don't lose like that any more to those players, ever

2; There is some kind of change which allows weak players to win, upsetting the balance of power and skill.

I think everybody who plays RTS seriously wants the stronger player to win, and there is a lot going into that - blizzard has done the best job of any game in the HISTORY of real time strategy for the top quarter of the playerbase - and if you have good mechanics OR you play a decent amount and understand the game on a basic enough level to discuss problems like this, you'll be there.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Yea, but those protoss players, if they choose to play like that, which can actually pull it off against a strong zerg player are off winning many thousands of dollars, not haunting the platinum league ladder. That's where my problem is with 99% of the people complaining
> 
> If you're losing when you're a weak player, what do you expect? There are two options:
> 
> 1; You become a strong player and don't lose like that any more to those players, ever
> 
> 2; There is some kind of change which allows weak players to win, upsetting the balance of power and skill.
> 
> I think everybody who plays RTS seriously wants the stronger player to win, and there is a lot going into that - blizzard has done the best job of any game in the HISTORY of real time strategy for the top quarter of the playerbase - and if you have good mechanics OR you play a decent amount and understand the game on a basic enough level to discuss problems like this, you'll be there.


For this conversation we're assuming everyone is of equal skill or there's just no point. You can't compare a bronze leaguer to a plat or a plat to masters. You just can't, at those levels the game is vastly different.

Plat leauge is HotS is no joke, WoL masters and even HotS masters ended up there because of the horrific match making and degrading rank system.

I'm not sure how bad players vs good players ties into Starcraft 2's awful unit design...


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I'm not sure how bad players vs good players ties into Starcraft 2's awful unit design...


I was trying to make a relevant discussion instead of joining the "sc2 is terrible" club that half of forum posters seem to have been going on about FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS

when will it end









I'm glad that TL throws warnings and bans for random talk about how terrible the game apparently is with no direction or legitimate discussion, they even have specific forum sections for balance and design discussions. Could we put that stuff in a separate thread instead of making this one worse?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I was trying to make a relevant discussion instead of joining the "sc2 is terrible" club that half of forum posters seem to have been going on about FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS


Well if Blizzard would have listened it would have been avoidable, which is why people keep bringing it up. Its not that we enjoy bringing it up, its because without feedback there's no way to improve reliably.
Quote:


> when will it end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad that TL throws warnings and bans for random talk about how terrible the game apparently is with no direction or legitimate discussion, they even have specific forum sections for balance and design discussions. Could we put that stuff in a separate thread instead of making this one worse?


This is a civil discussion where legit points are being brought up which effect the playability of the game. TL has those rules because the SCII community is almost as bad as the LoL community. You cannot let them have free reign because they will abuse it and degenerate into pre-teen behavior. We, at OC.net are not even half as bad as those communities so we don't need arbitrary rules to limit our discussions.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> We, at OC.net are not even half as bad as those communities so we don't need arbitrary rules to limit our discussions.


Everybody says that, it's hardly what i see (from any forum)

Lot of posts here (tens of thousands) and quite a few were quite whiny. It happens with any competitive game - people get mad at themselves, or worse, divert blame to others or other things. There's a line between whining and legit discussion of what a mechanic is, why it happens, why it is a legitimate problem and what could be discussed about it with the goal of improvement to the game


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Everybody says that, it's hardly what i see (from any forum)
> 
> Lot of posts here (tens of thousands) and quite a few were quite whiny. It happens with any competitive game - people get mad at themselves, or worse, divert blame to others or other things. There's a line between whining and legit discussion of what a mechanic is, why it happens, why it is a legitimate problem and what could be discussed about it with the goal of improvement to the game


Whiny is subjective. What you find whiny I may not. Thats why this discussion is leading farther and farther away from relevancy. You're taking away the conversation from something that's based on facts and migrating it to subjective points of view.

If you want to talk about how to fix SCII I'm down for that. I have several ideas which would probably work that don't involve butchering SCII.


----------



## Anti!!

May I say I for one hate TL. Their mushy don't say anything mean crap just tickes me off. I understand people bashing one another is not needed, but man.. Some of the things I have seen bring warnings or temps bans was just laughable.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> May I say I for one hate TL. Their mushy don't say anything mean crap just tickes me off. I understand people bashing one another is not needed, but man.. Some of the things I have seen bring warnings or temps bans was just laughable.


They mod, largely, based on extended post history. There are other rules in place that have zero tolerance policy for warnings or 1day ban that are stated clearly over threads, etc

also warning is just that, a warning. There is no punishment for it

They have some success, as whining like this thread and reddit is often full of is largely constrained to a few threads, as opposed to being EVERYWHERE


----------



## EliteReplay

I really dont like how TL manage their thread.... you can only talk in a positive way when you dont like something or you will get either banned or warned...

there was a post about a guy retiring... and if you said the minimun thing about that person even critical analisis or just you didnt like his way of play you can get banned.

where is the free expresion? in TL thats not existent

they just want you to talk everything like is BLUE color even though is RED.

if you talk about balance and you are whining or whatever you get banned for just saying what you feel about the game.

LOL

for what i am saying right now you can even get banned on TL is absurd.


----------



## Cyro999

You can say anything that you want on TL. There are just clear rules for when you have to say it in a different forum section.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You can say anything that you want on TL. There are just clear rules for when you have to say it in a different forum section.


that not true and i already told you that...

there was a thread that i can remember now that i was questioning why NonY was doing so bad in SC2 and i got warned.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> that not true and i already told you that...
> 
> there was a thread that i can remember now that i was questioning why NonY was doing so bad in SC2 and i got warned.


Exactly. The SCII community itself is pretty unruly. They need those rules or they will degrade into trolling. As far as I can tell we are all above that kind of behavior here, even the ones who are strangely reminiscent of that type of behaviour are the minority so the mob mentality never really spins out of control.

But enough with the psychology behind forum rules and how they pertain to SCII. lets actually talk SCII.

Been trying my old FFE cannon contain 2 base VR Colossus deathball (can turn into 3 base but then you miss your 15 min timing window). Zerg just melt to it unless they took the entire map and have 2-3 remaxes at their disposal.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> that not true and i already told you that...
> 
> there was a thread that i can remember now that i was questioning why NonY was doing so bad in SC2 and i got warned.


Gotta make in a specific section


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Gotta make in a specific section


just tell me if this was enough reasons to ban this guy.... keep pretending TL is a good place to expose your arguments







they just ban you instantly they dont like your comment...


----------



## DIYDeath

I HOPE there was some stuff in the background brewing before they got banned because that would be very totalitarian of them to ban for something as harmless and civil as a comment like that.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I HOPE there was some stuff in the background brewing before they got banned because that would be very totalitarian of them to ban for something as harmless and civil as a comment like that.


nothing just what you see there.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> nothing just what you see there.


I used to see that all of the time in every thread I went to nearly. So much I quit going to TL.

Also, to cryo's point if there a select few areas where it is allowed I still think it is just oppressive as far as forum standards go.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I HOPE there was some stuff in the background brewing before they got banned because that would be very totalitarian of them to ban for something as harmless and civil as a comment like that.


Quote:


> That ranking was a bad joke. And viewers can see for themselves. I showed some of my friends Polt's TvP matches at IEM and they all said protoss looked too strong even though the terran ended up winning.


written in a >live report< thread, where balance discussion is strictly prohibited, as it was known in the past to take them over and descend into flame wars
Quote:


> "you need to micro 10 times harder than the protoss player " - Wolf


The page before, same live report thread.
Quote:


> Keen made a great tactical desicion to sneak marines pass the contain to kill probes at the natural. Doesn't matter because of a 1-click skill solution, even after a time warp. If you think that is fair in a "strategy" game then good for you.
> 
> User was temp banned for this post.


^one of many such posts, the one he got a temp ban for.
Quote:


> To be fair if not for the mother ship skill Keen would have had that gam.


Not really particularly whiny, but edgy, given post history.
Quote:


> Urghhh recall


Everything he says is out of place and derogatory against one, particular race. The amount of people that do, or did this, is mind blowing. People really have fragile ego's when it comes to RTS.

Quote:


> Classic vs Keen is going to be a roflstomp. Funny cuz if this were a TvT it might actually be an even match.


Quote:


> They have to qualify from their team internal tournament, so we still have same problem. That's why proleague is PvProleague in the first two rounds.


Quote:


> It's so scary what a good protoss can do. It feels like the race has so much yet unexplored potential.


Quote:


> "On April 20 2014 03:21 RampancyTW wrote:
> Is this the part where we pretend that TvZ hasn't been largely balanced for months?"
> 
> You obviously haven't followed the games for months.


Quote:


> Nice game, but protoss late game too strong.


Quote:


> Squirtle is kinda weak in the multitask department so a really good terran would just tear him apart.


Quote:


> Squirtle such "strategic" player as Classic puts it.


Quote:


> Wow TvT day, what a treat :x


Quote:


> wow qxc


Quote:


> Squirtle after ffing the ramp: "How zerg win"


Quote:


> Maru micro is just insane


Quote:


> While I think that Flash is overrated, there's no shame in being knocked out in code A as terran in the current state of the game.


He wrote all of this -in the last 2-3 days-

I thought it would be somewhat difficult, but i just ran down the list and quoted three quarters of what he said in LIVE REPORT threads, where balance discussion is, specifically and more than any other section, prohibited. He knows about the balance/design threads, because he -actively posts in them with his more aggressive complaints-

Half of what i did not post was terran praise, and maybe, maybe 10-20% of his comments are doing something other than making passes at protoss (occasionally zerg) and praising terran.

I don't particularly like somewhat strict moderation, but it works. I'm glad that idiots like this, after making dozens of posts in the window of a few days, get a TEMPORARY BAN of 1-3 days after a warning or two. It works - he is not alone, there are hundreds like him and there used to be many thousands.

I'd rather not sit around and discuss moderation though, if you guys want lower standards for whining about balance or other races that you happen not to play, i guess posting in threads like this works. Don't get the wrong picture of TL though. He hardly got temp banned for a single comment - there are literally dozens of them in the last 2-3 days alone, in live report threads, which have the most specific rules and strict moderation as they exist for 2 main reasons: So that people incapable of watching the games can read up in text format as the games happen, which requires scanning through all of the posts in the thread - and so that people as a community, who are watching the game, can discuss it and talk without it devolving into a flame war between the large blobs of followers for each individual faction or player.

I hope this opens your eyes a little, as individually quoting something like that can be very deceiving when it is judged not by the content of the post, but by the intention and the ones before it.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> written in a >live report< thread, where balance discussion is strictly prohibited, as it was known in the past to take them over and descend into flame wars
> The page before, same live report thread.
> ^one of many such posts, the one he got a temp ban for.
> Not really particularly whiny, but edgy, given post history.
> Everything he says is out of place and derogatory against one, particular race. The amount of people that do, or did this, is mind blowing. People really have fragile ego's when it comes to RTS.
> 
> He wrote all of this -in the last 2-3 days-
> 
> I thought it would be somewhat difficult, but i just ran down the list and quoted three quarters of what he said in LIVE REPORT threads, where balance discussion is, specifically and more than any other section, prohibited. He knows about the balance/design threads, because he -actively posts in them with his more aggressive complaints-
> 
> Half of what i did not post was terran praise, and maybe, maybe 10-20% of his comments are doing something other than making passes at protoss (occasionally zerg) and praising terran.
> 
> I don't particularly like somewhat strict moderation, but it works. I'm glad that idiots like this, after making dozens of posts in the window of a few days, get a TEMPORARY BAN of 1-3 days after a warning or two. It works - he is not alone, there are hundreds like him and there used to be many thousands.
> 
> I'd rather not sit around and discuss moderation though, if you guys want lower standards for whining about balance or other races that you happen not to play, i guess posting in threads like this works. Don't get the wrong picture of TL though. He hardly got temp banned for a single comment - there are literally dozens of them in the last 2-3 days alone, in live report threads, which have the most specific rules and strict moderation as they exist for 2 main reasons: So that people incapable of watching the games can read up in text format as the games happen, which requires scanning through all of the posts in the thread - and so that people as a community, who are watching the game, can discuss it and talk without it devolving into a flame war between the large blobs of followers for each individual faction or player.
> 
> I hope this opens your eyes a little, as individually quoting something like that can be very deceiving when it is judged not by the content of the post, but by the intention and the ones before it.


thnig is a live thread is that, they should allow people to blame and whining all they want on those threads because even though you make a thread only to do t hat it will be closed in a matter of seconds.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> thnig is a live thread is that, they should allow people to blame and whining all they want on those threads because even though you make a thread only to do t hat it will be closed in a matter of seconds.


Quote:


> thnig is a live thread is that, they should allow people to blame and whining all they want


The live report threads specifically exist for those who cannot watch the games (in order to follow them, as games are described live, in significant detail, by specified posters) and for clean, civilized discussion and hype around what is happening. In short, the target atmosphere is more cheering for a game, rather than half of the thread screaming at each other because they play a specific race. This is a very specific section of the forum and none of the TL members that i personally know (quite a lot) have any issues with it being one of the more strictly moderated sections.

As well as having specific threads for talking about balance, design and the ability to make a thread any time you want to discuss a particular game or games in detail, even with the question of balance, as long as you do it in a civilized way (race bashing throughout the OP like "how the **** was flash supposed to win against that ****, ******* overpowered 1click" will probably get insta-closed)

There are even specific threads where every bodies bans are posted >specifically for discussion of them< and anyone is free to PM a number of mods and site staff and have a long discussion any time they want.

The mods are very experienced (forum is from what early 2000's?) and yes, if you have 600 posts, if three quarters of your last 20 posts is either race bashing in live report or praising another race player (without exception to the specific races that it is) then yes, they'll throw a 1-3 day temp ban, usually after a warning (or two, depending on how old the warning was) and then escalate it if you continue the behavior.

Honestly it's much like OCN in that regard - there are somewhat questionable mod practices everywhere, at least from a quick look perspective - FX vs Haswell discussion is perfectly legit and allowed, but you >will< get warned for bringing it up in certain ways or bringing it up in certain threads. If there is a new thread about 4-module steamrollers being released, and you post "steamroller is terrible, i don't know why anybody uses it over intel, stupid amd fanboys" with nothing constructive written at all after it is explicitly prohibited, you WILL get mod actioned and rightly so.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The live report threads specifically exist for those who cannot watch the games (in order to follow them, as games are described live, in significant detail, by specified posters) and for clean, civilized discussion and hype around what is happening. In short, the target atmosphere is more cheering for a game, rather than half of the thread screaming at each other because they play a specific race. This is a very specific section of the forum and none of the TL members that i personally know (quite a lot) have any issues with it being one of the more strictly moderated sections.
> 
> As well as having specific threads for talking about balance, design and the ability to make a thread any time you want to discuss a particular game or games in detail, even with the question of balance, as long as you do it in a civilized way (race bashing throughout the OP like "how the **** was flash supposed to win against that ****, ******* overpowered 1click" will probably get insta-closed)
> 
> There are even specific threads where every bodies bans are posted >specifically for discussion of them< and anyone is free to PM a number of mods and site staff and have a long discussion any time they want.
> 
> The mods are very experienced (forum is from what early 2000's?) and yes, if you have 600 posts, if three quarters of your last 20 posts is either race bashing in live report or praising another race player (without exception to the specific races that it is) then yes, they'll throw a 1-3 day temp ban, usually after a warning (or two, depending on how old the warning was) and then escalate it if you continue the behavior.
> 
> Honestly it's much like OCN in that regard - there are somewhat questionable mod practices everywhere, at least from a quick look perspective - FX vs Haswell discussion is perfectly legit and allowed, but you >will< get warned for bringing it up in certain ways or bringing it up in certain threads. If there is a new thread about 4-module steamrollers being released, and you post "steamroller is terrible, i don't know why anybody uses it over intel, stupid amd fanboys" with nothing constructive written at all after it is explicitly prohibited, you WILL get mod actioned and rightly so.


Sr. the live report does that... u dont need to be on the thread readning what is going on when the do a resume at the end of the match and put all that together on the first page of the thread...

what i want you to understand is, they should allow people to complain in a funny way and not get banned like the do overpowered 1 click thing is enough to ban a person? when you and me know it is like that?

you pretty much know collosus dont need anymore than A1 and forget about them or no?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Sr. the live report does that... u dont need to be on the thread readning what is going on when the do a resume at the end of the match and put all that together on the first page of the thread...
> 
> what i want you to understand is, they should allow people to complain in a funny way and not get banned like the do overpowered 1 click thing is enough to ban a person? when you and me know it is like that?
> 
> you pretty much know collosus dont need anymore than A1 and forget about them or no?


Reading summaries of games is a secondary function of the live report threads, not primary. They're there for use as i described

They do allow people to complain in a funny way. What will warrant a temp ban is somebody like quoted above making 10-20 posts in the window of a few days, doing nothing aside from complaining about 1 race, making small passes on another, and then praising members of his own race with no exceptions to that. I don't see any defending him - he was quite clearly showing pretty toxic behavior

I disagree on last line, but we're not here to discuss that


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Reading summaries of games is a secondary function of the live report threads, not primary. They're there for use as i described
> 
> They do allow people to complain in a funny way. What will warrant a temp ban is somebody like quoted above making 10-20 posts in the window of a few days, doing nothing aside from complaining about 1 race, making small passes on another, and then praising members of his own race with no exceptions to that. I don't see any defending him - he was quite clearly showing pretty toxic behavior
> 
> I disagree on last line, but we're not here to discuss that


Yeah, as much as I don't want to harp on this that's because the SCII community need that kind of moderation. Those people tend to go more crazy over SCII than Brits do over football and as such in those events they need to be heavily monitored because they get crazed and silly. thanks for showing the "behind the scenes" stuff though, I was thinking it was a bit off to temp ban automatically for a comment that light but with that recurring history, yeah. He's proven you can't give him any slack.


----------



## zigziglar

Does anyone know what the Zerg build order is that is being used a lot in ZvP lately? Ling, Hydra - deny third - into ling hydra viper?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah, as much as I don't want to harp on this that's because the SCII community need that kind of moderation. Those people tend to go more crazy over SCII than Brits do over football and as such in those events they need to be heavily monitored because they get crazed and silly. thanks for showing the "behind the scenes" stuff though, I was thinking it was a bit off to temp ban automatically for a comment that light but with that recurring history, yeah. He's proven you can't give him any slack.


To be honest, League and Dota are just as bad if not worse at times - though i have not been in many esports communities aside from RTS and MOBA.

There was recently some drama about death threats etc because a content creator made a preview for a video with champions/hero's from both games, and i get half a dozen or so personal attacks, many on the level of "i hope you get cancer and die" etc, just from playing either game for a decent session in any given day, without talking in chat or doing anything to provoke anyone - or worse, after actively being nice/considerate towards people, giving them a preferred role, saying "good job" etc.

Sc2 is less like that, but people really get their panties in a knot with perceived injustice in their losses, and the losses of the people that they like. Humans have pretty strong tendancies to form into groups and ruthlessly oppose everyone not a part of their group - i just think that it's extremely stupid to show this kind of behavior on the forum sections that exist for people to follow the games and have fun as a community - if you truly have legitimate concerns for balance/design, you have outlets for it that are not there and that will not destroy everybody else's experience with the sport.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> To be honest, League and Dota are just as bad if not worse at times - though i have not been in many esports communities aside from RTS and MOBA.
> 
> There was recently some drama about death threats etc because a content creator made a preview for a video with champions/hero's from both games, and i get half a dozen or so personal attacks, many on the level of "i hope you get cancer and die" etc, just from playing either game for a decent session in any given day, without talking in chat or doing anything to provoke anyone - or worse, after actively being nice/considerate towards people, giving them a preferred role, saying "good job" etc.
> 
> Sc2 is less like that, but people really get their panties in a knot with perceived injustice in their losses, and the losses of the people that they like. Humans have pretty strong tendancies to form into groups and ruthlessly oppose everyone not a part of their group - i just think that it's extremely stupid to show this kind of behavior on the forum sections that exist for people to follow the games and have fun as a community - if you truly have legitimate concerns for balance/design, you have outlets for it that are not there and that will not destroy everybody else's experience with the sport.


LoL is by far the worst community I have ever seen, They're just as bad as 4chan. I'd even argue they're potentially worse.
SCII is much better the higher in league you get bar elitism. That disease runs rampant through the community and it's part of why people don't play SCII. No one wants to try to learn only to get shunned.

...that being said nothing is more fun than going into practice league and murderstomping some noobs in 2v2 because your buddy never placed so you both can enter practice league. Yay hypocrisy,


----------



## eosgreen

The problem with TL mods too imo, they dont play sc2. i just hate they dont even play the game. also everyone knows TL mods are nazi mods. they ban you for things they dont like all the time and they have 0 sense of humor. does it make TL a "better place" there is less flaming and racism but also less true constructive criticism

side note i still play sc2 just got into masters on z, wtb ppl who still play often lol


----------



## Mwarren

I'd be willing to play with you but I probably suck right now.

I was top masters 2-3 years ago but stopped playing because a lot of people stopped playing.

Do a lot of people play SC2 now?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> The problem with TL mods too imo, they dont play sc2. i just hate they dont even play the game. also everyone knows TL mods are nazi mods. they ban you for things they dont like all the time and they have 0 sense of humor.


They follow a somewhat strict ruleset, OCN is the same (thankfully)

Keep putting youtube vids in your sig after being told not to because it's listed as a rule? Temp ban - etc.

I used to be bothered by it - until i followed a dozen or so bans that looked questionable and saw most the posters being aggressive idiots for half of their post history, violating forum rules every second or third post often - just like that guy i quoted, who actually managed it in most of his posts. After that, he got only a temp ban - if the mods are trying to be nazi's, they're not doing the best job.


----------



## zigziglar

Does anyone here actually talk about Starcraft?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Does anyone here actually talk about Starcraft?


I do, that's why I keep quiet most of the time


----------



## Anti!!

What is there to talk about now?


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I'd be willing to play with you but I probably suck right now.
> 
> I was top masters 2-3 years ago but stopped playing because a lot of people stopped playing.
> 
> Do a lot of people play SC2 now?


The game is definitely not "dead." All the casual 1 to 2 games a day players are pretty much gone though. According to nios.kr there are about 200,000 people still ranked on ladder though. WCS still pulls decent numbers, and despite what people might say, the game is still _*Tons of fun.*_


----------



## zigziglar

I think when people say SC2 is dead, what they really mean is that it's dead to THEM - whatever their reason. Maybe their circle of gaming buddies stopped playing it...


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> I think when people say SC2 is dead, what they really mean is that it's dead to THEM - whatever their reason. Maybe their circle of gaming buddies stopped playing it...


pretty much this...

but i stopped playing it... however i still watch streams and keep following news and tournaments, i think im gonna make a come back on LEGACY OF VOID.


----------



## DIYDeath

To this day I rarely log on to play simply because of the community. If the community learns to act like decent human beings then maybe LotV will have some more staying power...but I dont expect that...I expect even more totally unnecessary BM and a nearly total lack of punishment for said excessive BM.

Blizzard really needs to address that, freedom of speech is cool until you start spouting hate, then your freedom becomes everyone else's burden.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> To this day I rarely log on to play simply because of the community. If the community learns to act like decent human beings then maybe LotV will have some more staying power...but I dont expect that...I expect even more totally unnecessary BM and a nearly total lack of punishment for said excessive BM.
> 
> Blizzard really needs to address that, freedom of speech is cool until you start spouting hate, then your freedom becomes everyone else's burden.


As much as I agree with you, I think you just need a thick skin to get through this life with your sanity in tact. If you simply can't depersonalise BM, then I advise you learn how to quickly sequence the hotkeys necessary in order to block/mute an opponent during a match.









Don't let the BMers ruin the community by abandoning the game; there are plenty of nice players on there still!


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> there are plenty of nice players on there still!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> As much as I agree with you, I think you just need a thick skin to get through this life with your sanity in tact. If you simply can't depersonalise BM, then I advise you learn how to quickly sequence the hotkeys necessary in order to block/mute an opponent during a match.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't let the BMers ruin the community by abandoning the game; there are plenty of nice players on there still!


One could make the same argument regarding Bungie and their moderation yet it was needed because the community was out of hand.
It's less about thick skin and more to deal with bad people doing bad things because they dont have repercussions for those actions.

I'm a firm believer that there needs to be consequences for hate speech, internet or otherwise so while what you say is right I draw my line in the sand here, I shouldnt need to use a ignore feature consistently to deal with those kinds of "people"...when it's consistent it becomes a atmosphere that the game is responsible for fostering in one way or another.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> One could make the same argument regarding Bungie and their moderation yet it was needed because the community was out of hand.
> It's less about thick skin and more to deal with bad people doing bad things because they dont have repercussions for those actions.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that there needs to be consequences for hate speech, internet or otherwise so while what you say is right I draw my line in the sand here, I shouldnt need to use a ignore feature consistently to deal with those kinds of "people"...when it's consistent it becomes a atmosphere that the game is responsible for fostering in one way or another.


Again, I don't disagree with you. If you feel that your participation in the game is directly enabling/supporting unpunished BM and, as such, prefer not to associate yourself with the game until the authorities above address the problem, then I respect that.

My suggestion is simply a way to enjoy the game without having to personally be subjected to ongoing in-game BM. It doesn't solve the problem, but it also doesn't contribute to a higher rate of Sc2 natural attrition, which is a sad prospect for such a well engineered game.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> The game is definitely not "dead." All the casual 1 to 2 games a day players are pretty much gone though. According to nios.kr there are about 200,000 people still ranked on ladder though. WCS still pulls decent numbers, and despite what people might say, the game is still _*Tons of fun.*_


Back in SC2's prime there was a new post in this thread pretty much every 15 minutes.

Now the game is Korean vs Korean (at the highest level) from what I can tell and on TL all of the stream numbers have dropped dramatically as has tournament interests, prize money, and lack of players that are interested in playing.

I'm sure that the numbers will go back up briefly when LOTV is released and they might stay high if they manage to fix the game with that expansion.

Right now from what I've read and experienced the game is still very imbalanced which is a pity considering there are only three races to balance the game around.


----------



## DIYDeath

And I totally respect your approach too. xD

Thinking about SCII makes me want to use my old 9 minute 2 base chargelot archon all-in vs terran or my pure VR Colossus deathball vs zerg (its soooo much fun beating 3 remaxed armies in a row and only losing a few units while you steamroll).


----------



## Anti!!

I gave up sc2 for addiction reasons. I would totally still be slaying that game otherwise. Nothing like it imo.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> And I totally respect your approach too. xD
> 
> Thinking about SCII makes me want to use my old 9 minute 2 base chargelot archon all-in vs terran or my pure VR Colossus deathball vs zerg (its soooo much fun beating 3 remaxed armies in a row and only losing a few units while you steamroll).


On second thoughts, feel free to avoid Sc2 lol Seriously though, Protoss has been nerfed a fair bit recently and hydras buffed - so those deathballs are a lot less effective nowdays. Protoss still a very strong opponent for zerg to combat if they reach the late game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> On second thoughts, feel free to avoid Sc2 lol Seriously though, Protoss has been nerfed a fair bit recently and hydras buffed - so those deathballs are a lot less effective nowdays. Protoss still a very strong opponent for zerg to combat if they reach the late game.


Haha, I still play once in a while so I know whats been buffed and what's been nerfed for the most part. To my knowledge Colossus didnt get nerfed and neither did Void Rays. Hydras insta-die to Colossus, that range and speed increase just doesn't matter when theyre made out of wet tissue paper.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Haha, I still play once in a while so I know whats been buffed and what's been nerfed for the most part. To my knowledge Colossus didnt get nerfed and neither did Void Rays. Hydras insta-die to Colossus, that range and speed increase just doesn't matter when theyre made out of wet tissue paper.


See at least we're talking about the game again! You are right, Colossi incinerate hydras. I think you really need mass mutas, and fast. If Protoss is allowed to get too many void rays, it's GG folks. Zerg has to be actively harrassing with lings too... it's a hard composition to deal with, to be honest.

I guess the Zerg could try using a bunch of vipers and static defence with their army, if they have good mechanics, but this style can take a while to build up to and Protoss can push with just two colossi and a bunch of vr much earlier...


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> See at least we're talking about the game again! You are right, Colossi incinerate hydras. I think you really need mass mutas, and fast. If Protoss is allowed to get too many void rays, it's GG folks. Zerg has to be actively harrassing with lings too... it's a hard composition to deal with, to be honest.
> 
> I guess the Zerg could try using a bunch of vipers and static defence with their army, if they have good mechanics, but this style can take a while to build up to and Protoss can push with just two colossi and a bunch of vr much earlier...


vs the Colossus VR deathball you can't win a direct confrontation. Zerg doesn't have anything to counter that composition bar something silly like mass muta (which is bad since mutas are the worst scaling unit in the game). Their only choice is to not let Protoss do it or land non-stop money fungals without having the Colossus melt your Infestors.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Back in SC2's prime there was a new post in this thread pretty much every 15 minutes.
> 
> *Doesnt mean the game is dying*
> 
> Now the game is *European vs Korean/European* (at the highest level) from what I can tell and on TL all of the stream numbers have dropped dramatically as has tournament interests, prize money, and lack *(200,000)* of players that are interested in playing.
> 
> I'm sure that the numbers will go back up briefly when LOTV is released and they _might_ stay high if they manage to fix the game with that expansion.
> 
> Right now from what I've read and experienced the game is still very imbalancedwhich is a pity considering there are only three races to balance the game around. *just as fun, if not more than when it came out.*


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> vs the Colossus VR deathball you can't win a direct confrontation. Zerg doesn't have anything to counter that composition bar something silly like mass muta (which is bad since mutas are the worst scaling unit in the game). Their only choice is to not let Protoss do it or land non-stop money fungals without having the Colossus melt your Infestors.


In a nutshell, yep. I've beaten that composition with some Catz style moves before hehe Nydus mass queen infestor with roaches to snipe the one or two colossi that are out. It's a gimmick tactic that can easily fail miserably though. Typically though, I will just try to double upgrade from a pair of spires and rush too around 20 mutas and try to clean up all void rays and camp the stargates as long as possible while building a bank for a transition. I prefer to either win or lose right there and then, then drag the game out feeling like a toddler hiding under their bed from a monster roaming around the room.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*


That's your opinion, the facts say otherwise.

No European players can keep up with the top Koreans.

Most of the top Euro players quit.

Also, stream numbers and the number of tournaments have dropped drastically.

The game was way more fun within the first 2 years of it's release in my opinion.

This is mainly because new strategies were being used day in and day out and the game's were much more micro intensive back then.

I really wished Blizzard would just release WC4.


----------



## EliteReplay

Code S... Group E right now...

http://www.twitch.tv/gsl


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Code S... Group E right now...
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/gsl


Watching it, so much off-topic talk from the commenters. Do they perceive themselves as talk show hosts? Cause they are not and were never supposed to be. I want more in-depth analysis of the game, not this bromance crap and Yogi Bear reviews.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Watching it, so much off-topic talk from the commenters. Do they perceive themselves as talk show hosts? Cause they are not and were never supposed to be. I want more in-depth analysis of the game, not this bromance crap and Yogi Bear reviews.


lol they talk like that a lot... i would like to understand korean tho... they do more in-depth analysis.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> lol they talk like that a lot... i would like to understand korean tho... they do more in-depth analysis.


Artosis completely carries Tasteless as far as analysis goes. He is always offering him segueys, but he is met with silence or OT banter every time, so he has to continously take the reigns on the actual game analysis. That being said, I've watched casts where both comentators were 100% analysis oriented and (especially early game) it ends up fairly un-entertaining and feels awkward when they have nothing to say.


----------



## Xtreme21

I finally picked up SC2 bundle over the weekend and have since beat the WoL campaign and now I'm looking to start playing some matches. Anyone on OCN willing to spend some time with a noob and teach me the ropes. Prefer to play Protoss.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xtreme21*
> 
> I finally picked up SC2 bundle over the weekend and have since beat the WoL campaign and now I'm looking to start playing some matches. Anyone on OCN willing to spend some time with a noob and teach me the ropes. Prefer to play Protoss.


Im in diamond andI typically play zerg, but I could probably teach you a few things about protoss...

My real ID is [email protected] Funny thing is I'm from Colorado too









I should be able to be on a few hours between 5:00 and 8:00ish


----------



## poroboszcz

Stephano's back
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I gave up sc2 for addiction reasons. I would totally still be slaying that game otherwise. Nothing like it imo.


Same here. It was taking way too much of my time and drowning too much of my energy even when trying to play casually. The game is just too addictive for those who have competitive nature and/or overly enjoy dopamine rushes from winning matches.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Stephano's back
> Same here. It was taking way too much of my time and drowning too much of my energy even when trying to play casually. The game is just too addictive for those who have competitive nature and/or overly enjoy dopamine rushes from winning matches.


Wwaaaayyyy this


----------



## eosgreen

i get readdicted i just grinded for 6 days to get my accs in masters. i barely knew what i was doing the first time and it was fun as hell to suck and deal with protoss bull**** (jk protoss noskill ez race)

its very addicting to me


----------



## espn

starcraft 2 is not that popular now. Not easy to find someone to play with.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> starcraft 2 is not that popular now. Not easy to find someone to play with.


So play on the ladder? I personally prefer not knowing who my opponent is.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> So play on the ladder? I personally prefer not knowing who my opponent is.


just customized game LOL. I don't play sc2 ranked game...honestly it requires so much skill and seriously practice to speed up every movements comparing to easier game like LOL. I play ranked in LOL.


----------



## lapengu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> just customized game LOL. I don't play sc2 ranked game...honestly it requires so much skill and seriously practice to speed up every movements comparing to easier game like LOL. I play ranked in LOL.


I disagree. People are under the impression that because they aren't masters or higher that they aren't any good. You can have tons of fun in bronze and silver, which is where i was at for a year.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> I disagree. People are under the impression that because they aren't masters or higher that they aren't any good. You can have tons of fun in bronze and silver, which is where i was at for a year.


Seriously, if I don't know enough starcraft 2 shortcut, strategies, and fast enough mouse/keyboard movement, I don't think I can even win one bronze game.
For SC2, there are so many things to manage at once even for very low ranked.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lapengu*
> 
> I disagree. People are under the impression that because they aren't masters or higher that they aren't any good. You can have tons of fun in bronze and silver, which is where i was at for a year.


This does seem to be the case... I also get why people abandon SC2 for games like LOL. It's not an easy game and requires a pretty high skill level to play on the ladder, even at Bronze (when compared to the entry level match making of other easier games).

It's not a game for everyone and I can respect anyone who just doesn't have the gaming background or time to invest into playing it.

I also agree with the statement that you can enjoy the game at Bronze level, but this still requires at least a little bit of enthusiasm and practice, whereas a complete noob at LOL can roam around aimlessly, kill a few thinsgs, maybe fluke a gank or something and enjoy it and think they're doing well while being carried by team-mates or simply being opposed by equally as unskilled opponents.

I used to hate playing anything 1v1 due to the anxiety it puts on you, but now I kind of get off on it lol I think you just need to let go a bit and care less about the result (being win vs loss) and just try and actually enjoy the game itself.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> This does seem to be the case... I also get why people abandon SC2 for games like LOL. It's not an easy game and requires a pretty high skill level to play on the ladder, even at Bronze (when compared to the entry level match making of other easier games).
> 
> It's not a game for everyone and I can respect anyone who just doesn't have the gaming background or time to invest into playing it.
> 
> I also agree with the statement that you can enjoy the game at Bronze level, but this still requires at least a little bit of enthusiasm and practice, whereas a complete noob at LOL can roam around aimlessly, kill a few thinsgs, maybe fluke a gank or something and enjoy it and think they're doing well while being carried by team-mates or simply being opposed by equally as unskilled opponents.
> 
> I used to hate playing anything 1v1 due to the anxiety it puts on you, but now I kind of get off on it lol I think you just need to let go a bit and care less about the result (being win vs loss) and just try and actually enjoy the game itself.


yes and normally a sc2 game is like an hour or much longer, which is much more intensed and time consuming. and sc2 except we play rush and win/lose, we need to seriously intensively build for like at least 10 to 15 minutes before we find out the enemy is much faster or stronger. and sc2 is mainly about 1 on 1. if someone is not good enough, losing all ranked games are expected.

another big reason is that lol you cannot even play one on one. and almost everyone blame others and dont feed bad about themselves when they lose. i always just click and play amother game in lol. sc2 one on one no one else to blame become very personal. i think i played one ranked game in sc2 i was so behind then didnt want to try again.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> yes and normally a sc2 game is like an hour or much longer


My average sc2 game in masters was about 12-13 minutes game time (8 minutes pvp) which is less than 10 minutes of real time

if a game gets past the midgame to supply caps (~12-15 mins of game time, >1.3x faster than realtime) then it's pretty long.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> My average sc2 game in masters was about 12-13 minutes game time (8 minutes pvp) which is less than 10 minutes of real time
> 
> if a game gets past the midgame to supply caps (~12-15 mins of game time, >1.3x faster than realtime) then it's pretty long.


Agreed and ive played in every league but gm.


----------



## zigziglar

espn: I'm not sure what you've been doing in sc2, but I'm with the subsequent two posters: average longest game time for me is around 15 minutes at fastest game speed, so around 10 real life minutes, often games end before half that though.

One of the main reasons I haven't got into LOL is how long games can take, which I find ironic given your statement. Also, I don't enjoy blaming others for losing, so I find team games frustrating and a bit futile in that regard; particularly with random team mates.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> espn: I'm not sure what you've been doing in sc2, but I'm with the subsequent two posters: average longest game time for me is around 15 minutes at fastest game speed, so around 10 real life minutes, often games end before half that though.
> 
> One of the main reasons I haven't got into LOL is how long games can take, which I find ironic given your statement. Also, I don't enjoy blaming others for losing, so I find team games frustrating and a bit futile in that regard; particularly with random team mates.


Because you rush attack everytime?


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Because you rush attack everytime?


No :/

I play zerg, so I tend to avoid the ultra late game, but also, I usually reach 200 pop by 13 game minutes. I usually try to hit strong timings between the 8 and 11 minute mark. This is hardly rushing, as I'm on 3 base saturation with a 4th behind the attack.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you might just be used to a completely different meta-game from the level of play you played at.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> No :/
> 
> I play zerg, so I tend to avoid the ultra late game, but also, I usually reach 200 pop by 13 game minutes. I usually try to hit strong timings between the 8 and 11 minute mark. This is hardly rushing, as I'm on 3 base saturation with a 4th behind the attack.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but I think you might just be used to a completely different meta-game from the level of play you played at.


how to reach 200 pop by 13 game minutes? any youtube to show?


----------



## Sals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> No :/
> 
> I play zerg, so I tend to avoid the ultra late game, but also, I usually reach 200 pop by 13 game minutes. I usually try to hit strong timings between the 8 and 11 minute mark. This is hardly rushing, as I'm on 3 base saturation with a 4th behind the attack.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but I think you might just be used to a completely different meta-game from the level of play you played at.


This.

I went from bronze upto gold in 2 seasons ish, not the highest skill but still quite a differnce on sort of the standard gameplay.

bronze i wouldnt really feel confident opening with a CC or nexus on the basis of such unpredictability and i often found opponants, would tend to one base it till 10+ mins, pushes back the midgame till sort of 15 mins ish until there is enough economy to get it going, drags the games out a long time for me in bronze, usually hitting about 25-30 min games.

compare that to gold of opening with an expo or a more standard opener, the games advance alot quicker, especially when scouting actually sort of makes a little bit of sense. can end a game in 15 mins in the basis that both sides have a fairly decent economy and are up the in higher tiered units. A bit of a jump from being in bronze not so long ago..

TL; DR: different leagues, differnt timings


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> how to reach 200 pop by 13 game minutes? any youtube to show?


Stephano was famous for a style of roach max at 12 minute. His fastest 200/200 in a pro game was somewhere around 11 minutes 20 seconds - at that rate, you can climb in supply extremely quickly, reaching 200/200 by 1 minute after that is not too difficult, by 3 minutes after it is extremely easy, even without rushing for it (if you are playing aggressive style behind ~60 drones)

My 2-base all in PvZ's usually lasted about ~12 min. Parting build aimed to leave base at ~8:45 with three immortals 8 sentries, if you actually do it properly on a small map you can hit zerg at 9:15, but 9:30-9:45 is often hit. 10 minutes if you're slow for various reasons. It only takes a minute or so from there to decide those games, maybe a little longer. Being able to execute that stuff solidly is how i took decent winrate at midmaster pvz, but my other matchups were worse

go to www.google.com and type in "stephano 12" - it autocompletes to "stephano 12 minute max". It was the base for a pretty solid meta a long time ago now, maybe even a few years
Quote:


> The primary goal of this guide is to help you max out at the 12 Minute Mark by securing an optimal 3 base economy by the 8 Minute Benchmark:
> 
> 8:00 Satisfactory Benchmark: 3 Bases, 60 Drones, 4 Queens


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/324733-stephano-style-zvp-the-12-minute-max-out


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Stephano was famous for a style of roach max at 12 minute. His fastest 200/200 in a pro game was somewhere around 11 minutes 20 seconds - at that rate, you can climb in supply extremely quickly, reaching 200/200 by 1 minute after that is not too difficult, by 3 minutes after it is extremely easy, even without rushing for it (if you are playing aggressive style behind ~60 drones)
> 
> My 2-base all in PvZ's usually lasted about ~12 min. Parting build aimed to leave base at ~8:45 with three immortals 8 sentries, if you actually do it properly on a small map you can hit zerg at 9:15, but 9:30-9:45 is often hit. 10 minutes if you're slow for various reasons. It only takes a minute or so from there to decide those games, maybe a little longer. Being able to execute that stuff solidly is how i took decent winrate at midmaster pvz, but my other matchups were worse
> 
> go to www.google.com and type in "stephano 12" - it autocompletes to "stephano 12 minute max". It was the base for a pretty solid meta a long time ago now, maybe even a few years
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/324733-stephano-style-zvp-the-12-minute-max-out


What ranking would that be with this kind of building speed?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> What ranking would that be with this kind of building speed?


Zergs targeted those kind of 8-min things @gold-master, with increasing failure towards lower rankings









50 supply @8mins was common at lower rankings. Towards "pretty solid with early macro" people moved closer to 70, but a few of the best hit like 80's or so sometimes (just going from years old memory at this point)

If you mean those protoss build timings, it was enough to take a best of 5 from a mid master zerg without changing strategy, if you were that solid on execution and had the micro to back it up


----------



## zigziglar

I guess it just depends on the match up and what the opponent is doing, as Zerg is fairly reactionary. Even a 200 pop army with 7 or 8 ultras on 5-3 can be had by around 15 in game minutes (and forms the basis of the old fast upgrade melee style that Leenock popularised).

I've had some pretty ultra long ZvTs and ZvZ (sh vs sh), but I tend to opt for the roach hydra viper style vs Mech now and Broodlords can no longer be abducted, so that fixed the SHvSH stalemate. Can't see myself being in anything longer than 20 in game minutes very often now.


----------



## Mwarren

Games were much longer around 3-4 years ago.

I've had quite a few 90 minute games back then and it was somewhat common in the pro scene as well.

I remember playing games at top masters on Metro or Shakura's where TvZ or TvT the game would be nothing but intense battles from the opener to the end game where practically all the bases were drained and the player that would win would be the one that managed to harass the other players bases and out micro the other player.

TvP's were also very, very intense games after the mid point due to ghosts vs templars and dropping all over the place.

Last time I played SC2 aggressive openers were non existent due to the long distance from player 1 spawn to player 2 spawn.

They should bring back the maps that has closer spawns.

My favorite moments in SC2 were on maps where you had to really micro your ass off to win and games could be decided quickly if your macro/micro was much better than your opponents. CC first builds were also non existant as practically any micro based opener would stop you in your tracks.


----------



## zigziglar

Large maps with wide open thirds are the current trend and only real way to stop a lot of the Protoss all-ins that were becoming unstoppable and ruining the diversity of the game.

The only "small" map is Habitation Station, which has a gold mineral patch in the 3rd/4th location, so it completely changes the dynamics of the meta-game, which is cool.

I'd like to see the Protoss issues dealt with in such a way that their superiority is not so map dependent. I suppose a whole reworking of the game would be required, so I expect they're holding off until LOTV.


----------



## espn

another hard part of sc2 is that there are so many map. lol is mainly just one map.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> another hard part of sc2 os that there are so many map. lol is mainly just one map.


It does make it hard. I always feel lost at the start of a new season when a new map pool is released, but I guess everyone else does too.


----------



## Mwarren

New and different maps really don't effect much believe it or not.

The only thing that different maps change is how aggressive/passive you can open due to distance.


----------



## eosgreen

u can easily max at 11mins with roaches actually (assuming no aggression and u cut corners like for example no drone scout etc)

did it the other day when teaching a friend zerg. told them, go into a custom game and max at 11mins and u will "be better" which is true

side note anyone wana get masters 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 with me im bored and did it 3 times in 1v1 now


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> New and different maps really don't effect much believe it or not.
> 
> The only thing that different maps change is how aggressive/passive you can open due to distance.


While I don't necessarily disagree, it's about having to actually think and double check the map to know where to scout or place overlords etc something that you don't even think about once you're used to a map. That extra brain power has to be taken away from other tasks, so it can cause a bit of disruption to your focus.


----------



## DoomDash

The maps style really changes the meta, I don't see how you can argue that. Put a bunch of blink stalker maps on and PvT gets worse.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The maps style really changes the meta, I don't see how you can argue that. Put a bunch of blink stalker maps on and PvT gets worse.


The map's "style" only changes the distance from one spawn to another.

A map where blink stalker openers are very viable would be a map where the spawns are closer.

They should bring back the old maps like Metro. Those were the best maps in my opinion, the ones from the map pool 2-3 years ago.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> The map's "style" only changes the distance from one spawn to another.
> 
> A map where blink stalker openers are very viable would be a map where the spawns are closer.
> 
> They should bring back the old maps like Metro. Those were the best maps in my opinion, the ones from the map pool 2-3 years ago.


Spawns are irreverent, locations / size of cliffs are. Pylons don't care where you spawn.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Spawns are irreverent, locations / size of cliffs are. Pylons don't care where you spawn.


Lol Spawns are very relevant......remember the old maps where 1 base was only viable........

They fixed pylons so that you can't go up a cliff before seeing it.

Blink Stalker all ins are basically useless on maps that are large with long distance spawn locations, so basically any large map.


----------



## eosgreen

blinks bad when you cant easily access main the map size means nothing for gateway timings... literally nothing matters map wise for a gateway timing attack other than "if the chokes really small a 6-8 gate all in may be less effective since it uses lots of zels" but no one does that and its still not a big deal


----------



## DIYDeath

Just something I remembered: Back in HotS beta Blink got nerfed in research time.

What I found silly about that was that Terran had no problems holding if IF they scouted you and built bunkers+Marauders in strategic locations yet they nerfed the strategy anyhow...even though there are several dozen timings that Terran had vs toss which were damn near impossible to overcome without massively outplaying the opponent (usually with FF micro) and yet the moment that Terrans find a hard timing to overcome, that timing gets nerfed to high hell and back before a chance is given for Terran to adapt (same thing that they do with every other race-but not Terran apparently!)

Every time I think of that I am reminded of the double standard of SCII and thus inspires me to cheer now that Terran are basically unplayable in the current meta. It's about freaking time they got what was coming to them, the same b.s. every other race has gone through BUT them.

Childish POV? Perhaps but imo justified given the peripherals.


----------



## Vezryl

I've had the game for ages but recently I've been having one of the biggest desire to play the game, when I did play it before I lost every single game.

How do I go about getting better? Where do I start? Should I finish the campaign?


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vezryl*
> 
> I've had the game for ages but recently I've been having one of the biggest desire to play the game, when I did play it before I lost every single game.
> 
> How do I go about getting better? Where do I start? Should I finish the campaign?


a guy i know in gm complained to me about this 2 weeks ago. there isnt really a way to get better faster. you kinda gota just play a lot and then learn as much as you can.

i would suggest learning lists once you get to around plat level and for now just go read build orders and practice vs the easy ai. if for example you are zerg i would suggest learning to max roach by 11 mins or terran max tank marine by 15mins.

protoss is the easiest race to learn because EVERYTHING they do is a specific build order. for protoss just go read 1 2 base or 1 base build per race and learn it. id suggest immortal and sentry as well as blink builds. they make you learn basic protoss micro and how to fight/build an army

honestly if you dont crave competitive gaming or skill etc this game is not for you imo. the single player is hard, the players who play it know what they are doing and there are no skills from other games that will help you overcome that if you have not played an RTS before. if ur a good gamer tho its rewarding and fun to just play a 1v1 game that the better player will usually always win and you dont gota deal with ****ty teamates

its also why its stressful for some... cant blame anyone but yourself


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vezryl*
> 
> I've had the game for ages but recently I've been having one of the biggest desire to play the game, when I did play it before I lost every single game.
> 
> How do I go about getting better? Where do I start? Should I finish the campaign?


Find someone in plat+ to pummel you senseless over and over and watch replays of pros.

That will get you better quickly (quickly meaning months of constant, daily training).


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Find someone in plat+ to pummel you senseless over and over and watch replays of pros.
> 
> That will get you better quickly (quickly meaning months of constant, daily training).


This advice would be better suited to someone who is already at least Silver level.

For a noob, I would recommend watching youtube tutorial videos and learning a versatile build order and practicing it vs easy AI until the build is muscle memory, then taking it to the ladder.

Even if the build is scouted and hard countered half the time, simply the process of playing the game with a specific and deliberate purpose will help develop better mechanics and understanding.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> This advice would be better suited to someone who is already at least Silver level.
> 
> For a noob, I would recommend watching youtube tutorial videos and learning a versatile build order and practicing it vs easy AI until the build is muscle memory, then taking it to the ladder.
> 
> Even if the build is scouted and hard countered half the time, simply the process of playing the game with a specific and deliberate purpose will help develop better mechanics and understanding.


I agree, Plat 3 is approx top ~3%? Somebody who has no idea how to play won't benefit specifically more from them than they would from anyone decent.

Silver 5 is the average of lvl 30's in ranked - and it takes THREE HUNDRED 5V5 GAMES just to get to level 30, from my experience and that with someone i play with leveling 1-30 in a couple months


----------



## zigziglar

Basically, if you hate the idea of following a build order, then you will be forever Bronze in the SC2 world. It wasn't until I'd practiced (and memorised) many many build orders and got to Platinum league that I was actually able to compete without specifically recalling a build order from memory, but on a subconscious level, I'm still executing a build order or combining fragments of build orders together dynamically.

It really comes down to a simple fact; things take time, so finding a way to sequence events efficiently is essential if everyone else is as well. A build order keeps on a specific time continuum and provides you with real time benchmarks so you can blindly know how well you're doing.

If you just randomly do things, not only will you be slow, but you will also have no idea how well you are doing, which is pretty important. If you have an idea of how fast or slow you are relative to pro build orders, you know whether or not you should be hitting the panic button and getting units or whether it's time to scout your enemies tech path etc.

Cheers


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Basically, if you hate the idea of following a build order, then you will be forever Bronze in the SC2 world. It wasn't until I'd practiced (and memorised) many many build orders and got to Platinum league that I was actually able to compete without specifically recalling a build order from memory, but on a subconscious level, I'm still executing a build order or combining fragments of build orders together dynamically.
> 
> It really comes down to a simple fact; things take time, so finding a way to sequence events efficiently is essential if everyone else is as well. A build order keeps on a specific time continuum and provides you with real time benchmarks so you can blindly know how well you're doing.
> 
> If you just randomly do things, not only will you be slow, but you will also have no idea how well you are doing, which is pretty important. If you have an idea of how fast or slow you are relative to pro build orders, you know whether or not you should be hitting the panic button and getting units or whether it's time to scout your enemies tech path etc.
> 
> Cheers


this

learn build orders. they represent the "optimal" (at the current understanding) way to do a certain thing. i have many "build orders" i just do naturally.

also PLAY THE GAME. just playing should make u better but understanding this isnt an easy game at all..... hardest game ever made outside scbw


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> this
> 
> learn build orders. they represent the "optimal" (at the current understanding) way to do a certain thing. i have many "build orders" i just do naturally.
> 
> also PLAY THE GAME. just playing should make u better but understanding this isnt an easy game at all..... hardest game ever made outside scbw


"Just playing" is a common concept that is thrown around and while I agree that this will certainly help more than not playing at all, what you really want to do in order to get better you need to employ "deliberate practice" principles.

Just a brief elaboration on deliberate practice; it is where you isolate a specific aspect of the game that you want to improve at and dedicate a specific amount of time per day to ONLY that task until you have reached the level of proficiency desired before adding a new element. For example, the most efficient way to learn a build order is to break it down into more manageble segments (like early game, mid game, late game [or whatever]) and master one before the next.

The great thing about learning build orders this way is that the beginning or opening component is fairly interchangable with other mid sections etc etc.

You could also isolate things like overlord positioning on every map, not forgetting to scout, other aspects of mechanics specifically like inject timing. You have to remove distractions and FOCUS on that thing for an hour or 90 minutes at a time.

EDIT: I just want to point out to the Bronze players reading this. These drills are only necessary because you're talking about improving into like the top 3% of the world, which is no small feat for any challenge! Even Bronze league requires a high level of skill to win games at. Don't let Masters players etc get you down. Being Bronze or Silver or whatever doesn't mean you suck at gaming, it just means you play more casually. The important thing is that you ENJOY playing.


----------



## Cyro999

Build orders are only a simple way of getting into the mindset of having goals in the game that you need to meet

for example 2 colossi, a few sentries and a handful of stalkers to meet terran 2-4 medivac push. Without them, playing a robo style, you would likely die somewhat often to more aggressive pushes.


----------



## Anti!!

I think all of the above was rather constructive and helpful. I believe the OP needs to post some of these suggestions in the first post as we get asked this a lot.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> "Just playing" is a common concept that is thrown around and while I agree that this will certainly help more than not playing at all, what you really want to do in order to get better you need to employ "deliberate practice" principles.
> 
> Just a brief elaboration on deliberate practice; it is where you isolate a specific aspect of the game that you want to improve at and dedicate a specific amount of time per day to ONLY that task until you have reached the level of proficiency desired before adding a new element. For example, the most efficient way to learn a build order is to break it down into more manageble segments (like early game, mid game, late game [or whatever]) and master one before the next.
> 
> The great thing about learning build orders this way is that the beginning or opening component is fairly interchangable with other mid sections etc etc.
> 
> You could also isolate things like overlord positioning on every map, not forgetting to scout, other aspects of mechanics specifically like inject timing. You have to remove distractions and FOCUS on that thing for an hour or 90 minutes at a time.
> 
> EDIT: I just want to point out to the Bronze players reading this. These drills are only necessary because you're talking about improving into like the top 3% of the world, which is no small feat for any challenge! Even Bronze league requires a high level of skill to win games at. Don't let Masters players etc get you down. Being Bronze or Silver or whatever doesn't mean you suck at gaming, it just means you play more casually. The important thing is that you ENJOY playing.


no being bronze after 3k games means u suck. being bronze after 50 games means you are new. casual *** is casual lol there is only good gamer and bad gamer. there is not a single game anyone i know whos a good gamer plays and isnt vastly better instantly than even casuals.

also playing is the most important thing. obv you wana play with a goal in mind but consider this, a new player has no idea what the word macro even means so why not just play a bunch and then come back and figure some things out. of COURSE you can take the advice we give and practice build orders but its not that simple. when i started sc2 i had a backround in RTS and still my BO were crappy and made no sense but EVERYONES BO's were the same so its no problem. currently even bronze players have a decent understanding so the #1 rule is play, dont be mad when u lose


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> no being bronze after 3k games means u suck. being bronze after 50 games means you are new. casual *** is casual lol there is only good gamer and bad gamer. there is not a single game anyone i know whos a good gamer plays and isnt vastly better instantly than even casuals.


As harsh as this sounds it is true. lol


----------



## SheepMoose

Hey guys!
Complete noob here. Owned Starcraft II for ages but only really was able to defeat the easy bots. I've now reinstalled it in hope of enjoying what would be a challenging game.

Trying to play Zerg at the moment. I just find this to be a race I enjoy most.
Any advice for a complete noob on how to get started in this game? How to prepare yourself for macroing and letting resources being used while constantly scouting/attacking?

Cheers.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose*
> 
> Hey guys!
> Complete noob here. Owned Starcraft II for ages but only really was able to defeat the easy bots. I've now reinstalled it in hope of enjoying what would be a challenging game.
> 
> Trying to play Zerg at the moment. I just find this to be a race I enjoy most.
> Any advice for a complete noob on how to get started in this game? How to prepare yourself for macroing and letting resources being used while constantly scouting/attacking?
> 
> Cheers.


Just play. It's more fun than studying builds and pro games, at least to start of with.

The two main things to focus on are:

1. Keep constantly building workers, expand when you reach max saturation (if safe to do so of course)

2. Keep your money low

If you get those two things nailed down, the rest will be much easier.


----------



## SheepMoose

I've always struggled with making extra workers/units with Zerg because of the larvae. Is there a trick to it? It's pretty easy as Terran since you can just hotkey your command centre and easily create units that way.

As I said, I'm a complete noob haha


----------



## CravinR1

So who here has a AMD CPU that can 4v4 without being a slide show no matter the GPU. I always play extreme at 1080p and even my 5870+ fx 6300 did fine

Going by mdocod claim that AMD CPU are bad for sc2 and dayz


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So who here has a AMD CPU that can 4v4 without being a slide show no matter the GPU. I always play extreme at 1080p and even my 5870+ fx 6300 did fine
> 
> Going by mdocod claim that AMD CPU are bad for sc2 and dayz


Athlon 750k OCed to 4.5Ghz plays rather smooth.


----------



## CravinR1

Big discussion of locked i5 + $100 cheaper GPU vs fx 6300 + $100 better GPU and some are saying 4v4 max units is like slide show on the fx. I've never had any issues with sc2


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So who here has a AMD CPU that can 4v4 without being a slide show no matter the GPU. I always play extreme at 1080p and even my 5870+ fx 6300 did fine
> 
> Going by mdocod claim that AMD CPU are bad for sc2 and dayz


Haswell is like 1.6x faster than FX clock for clock in sc2 engine and even [email protected] slows down, it's not really supply that kills you, but unit count. Fighting 60 supply of thors is 10 units, but 60 supply of zerglings is 120 units.

Slideshow is subjective though and i've seen plenty of times: two people have the same performance, one says it's terrible and the other says they don't notice it's bad


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I agree, Plat 3 is approx top ~3%? Somebody who has no idea how to play won't benefit specifically more from them than they would from anyone decent.
> 
> Silver 5 is the average of lvl 30's in ranked - and it takes THREE HUNDRED 5V5 GAMES just to get to level 30, from my experience and that with someone i play with leveling 1-30 in a couple months


Plat is top 3% now? What?

When I left Plat was top 20%...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> So who here has a AMD CPU that can 4v4 without being a slide show no matter the GPU. I always play extreme at 1080p and even my 5870+ fx 6300 did fine
> 
> Going by mdocod claim that AMD CPU are bad for sc2 and dayz


My 9370 OC'd @ 5.0 boost eats SC for breakfast, I only get lag when there's 8 players massing carriers.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Plat is top 3% now? What?
> 
> When I left Plat was top 20%...
> My 9370 OC'd @ 5.0 boost eats SC for breakfast, I only get lag when there's 8 players massing carriers.


I said Plat 3.

Plat is top ~6.82% on EUW but there is massive inflation there due to not being able to demoted out of Plat unless your ELO drops below Gold 4. If you shave off plat 5 and 4, there are only ~70k players from plat 3 to top in the world.

There are ~1.418 million players below there, so for everybody in plat 3 or higher, there are 20 players below

top 3% math a little bit off - but it's not top 20%. Looks like top 5% with current stats.
Quote:


> My 9370 OC'd @ 5.0 boost eats SC for breakfast, I only get lag when there's 8 players massing carriers.


Nah, you have pretty bad performance most of the time compared to many other games, but you have lower standards than many people. Sc2 microstutters like crazy on ANY system - the fact that you don't see this, even if you don't see the fps lowering over time and dipping in certain circumstances, shows that. It's fine to have lower standards, but it hardly runs like butter


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I said Plat 3.
> 
> Plat is top ~6.82% on EUW but there is massive inflation there due to not being able to demoted out of Plat unless your ELO drops below Gold 4. If you shave off plat 5 and 4, there are only ~70k players from plat 3 to top in the world.
> 
> There are ~1.418 million players below there, so for everybody in plat 3 or higher, there are 20 players below
> 
> top 3% math a little bit off - but it's not top 20%. Looks like top 5% with current stats.
> Nah, you have pretty bad performance most of the time compared to many other games, but you have lower standards than many people. Sc2 microstutters like crazy on ANY system - the fact that you don't see this, even if you don't see the fps lowering over time and dipping in certain circumstances, shows that. It's fine to have lower standards, but it hardly runs like butter


I'm not sure how to respond to something as purposely ignorant and confrontational as this.
You have no clue what kind of performance I get and you have no clue about my standards. Don't even think to pretend otherwise, its rude and uncalled for.

SC2 runs fine until you start going out of your way to be silly, if you have great hardware.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> You have no clue what kind of performance I get and you have no clue about my standards. Don't even think to pretend otherwise, its rude and uncalled for.


I've probably spent 200 hours of my life benchmarking the game engine (even with some ocn members), i'm a blue on TL and i have a general idea how the game runs: Pretty damn badly on Haswell when lots of units are involved (or just in general) and way worse (0.6-0.7x FPS typically) on Piledriver. I'm fine with people being happy with their performance, but not really fine with saying the game runs great on such a CPU - because it doesn't run great even on the one that runs the broken as hell 95% singlethreaded 32-bit dx9 microstuttery engine 1.5x faster.

I've got a 2v2 replay that doesn't hit 550 supply yet i've never seen anyone have a min FPS over ~10 with FX using physics, or ~35 on ANY CPU with all of the cpu settings at minimum, and it was a completely legit game, not fishing for low performance. That's not great, and i've seen more than a few, probably 15-20 people on forum asking why their intel cpu's are having performance issues with the game, it's infamous for running badly especially on FX even among those who have almost no technical knowledge in the community

You're saying that by your opinion and personal standards, sc2 runs "fine" most of the time on FX - which tells me that your standards are way lower than mine and a lot of friends of mine, because there's no other way that you could come to that conclusion. Performance with lots of units is bad.


----------



## Mwarren

SC2 runs fine on my X4 Phenom at 3.4GHz..........smooth as butter.

Is anyone looking for people to play with?

I was top masters/GM two years ago and am looking to start playing again.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> SC2 runs fine on my X4 Phenom at 3.4GHz..........smooth as butter.
> 
> Is anyone looking for people to play with?
> 
> I was top masters/GM two years ago and am looking to start playing again.


US or EU?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> US or EU?


US


----------



## Anti!!

I had a AMD 955 BE clocked at 4.2 and played thousands of team games with max graphics ling action. ( I was zerg ). I would say 99% of the time I didnt go below 25 fps.

On another note.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose*
> 
> I've always struggled with making extra workers/units with Zerg because of the larvae. Is there a trick to it? It's pretty easy as Terran since you can just hotkey your command centre and easily create units that way.
> 
> As I said, I'm a complete noob haha


DONT MISS YOUR QUEEN SPITS!!!







SO so so so important. Then Don't let your resources just collect. Spend them. Larva is considered a resource also. Yes, Zerg has 4 resources. They are minerals, gas, supply, and larva. Trying spending all of those as fast as possible on the correct units of course based on what you scout and you will start to do better.


----------



## Mwarren

Yea, I'm played with a X4 965 and it runs flawlessly with 4GB of ram and a GTX260.

I play at all low settings though as the higher settings distract them plus any advantage I can get I'll take.

I'll probably use a hybrid graphic setting in the near future as I've been getting into this game competitively again starting today.

Right now I'm on a 10 game win streak.......I'm just playing aggressive and using old builds based off of 1 base into expand (I play Terran).

All of the players that I've played against try to fast expand but I know how to punish greedy builds and fast expands really well.

My goal right now is to hit Top Diamond by ladder lock.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Yea, I'm played with a X4 965 and it runs flawlessly


I've yet to see any system that does not experience microstutter or any CPU that can easily keep up with supply capped armies, even though the dips in combat are way less with effects medium, reflections off, physics off


----------



## ronnin426850




----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> My goal right now is to hit Top Diamond by ladder lock.


That's a nice goal I'd like to do that too. Playing too much D3 to do it though.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That's a nice goal I'd like to do that too. Playing too much D3 to do it though.


Yea, nothing like competitive SC2.

I tried out Diablo 3 but it got too repetitive for me.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Yea, nothing like competitive SC2.
> 
> I tried out Diablo 3 but it got too repetitive for me.


yes Diablo 3 is too boring. Just keep killing the same monsters again and again, after finishing the whole game then play again? I don't even understand why people play it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> yes Diablo 3 is too boring. Just keep killing the same monsters again and again, after finishing the whole game then play again? I don't even understand why people play it.


It's a chill game and fun to build characters. I enjoy it, but I'm coming back to SCII in the end







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> yes Diablo 3 is too boring. Just keep killing the same monsters again and again, after finishing the whole game then play again? I don't even understand why people play it.


I'll try to explain. It's for the same reason people sometimes listen to the same album over and over again. Not everyone is looking for diversity. Some people just like to slash zombies over and over


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll try to explain. It's for the same reason people sometimes listen to the same album over and over again. Not everyone is looking for diversity. Some people just like to slash zombies over and over


Playing against human in SC2 is much harder than AI in D3.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Playing against human in SC2 is much harder than AI in D3.


Ok. So?


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll try to explain. It's for the same reason people sometimes listen to the same album over and over again. Not everyone is looking for diversity. Some people just like to slash zombies over and over


Repetitiveness can be good in some games but in D3 it's all right/left click spam and a few ability spams and that's about it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Repetitiveness can be good in some games but in D3 it's all right/left click spam and a few ability spams and that's about it.


It's fun killing monsters, especially efficiently. No need to explain, you don't get it, others do !


----------



## espn

I dont get it, I dont play a game that requires no thinking and against same AI again and again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's fun killing monsters, especially efficiently. No need to explain, you don't get it, others do !


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> I dont get it, I dont play a game that requires no thinking and against same AI again and again.


Good for you. I'll just consider myself more well rounded than you.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I've probably spent 200 hours of my life benchmarking the game engine (even with some ocn members), i'm a blue on TL and i have a general idea how the game runs: Pretty damn badly on Haswell when lots of units are involved (or just in general) and way worse (0.6-0.7x FPS typically) on Piledriver.


I put stock on empirical data collected through natural scenarios, not reputations, not blue names and not on a overly strict SCII forum.
Quote:


> I've got a 2v2 replay that doesn't hit 550 supply yet i've never seen anyone have a min FPS over ~10 with FX using physics, or ~35 on ANY CPU with all of the cpu settings at minimum, and it was a completely legit game, not fishing for low performance.


10 fps if everyone starts massing carriers for a split second technically qualifies as minimum fps (and is perfectly reasonable when 1000+ units are flying on the screen), define your terms please.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


I'm sorry but Ronnin did not get enough credit for this one. lol!


----------



## Tych

Hey, is there a SC2 group of OCN players? Like a big clan? I'm looking to get to know some of the OCN community and if there is such a group, I'd love to join.


----------



## eosgreen

there is not. games these days are mostly solo but "with people" and thus the need to setup such things are becoming less and less important

too lazy to meet new ppl online lol especially when as harsh as it sounds it wont improve your fun


----------



## Tych

Oh dang, i need some people to play with lol. I have a friend who plays with me but not often. That sucks though. I find it more fun with people I can talk to than not.


----------



## Anti!!

There is a group called OCN i believe. I gave it over to Doom way back. Im not sure what he has done with it, but I was logged in two weeks ago and it had like 15 or 20 people in it. However, people don't Idle groups like they are supposed. Nor do they use the chat. I just don't get it..


----------



## Tych

Oh ok, so maybe not much point in joining then if no one participates lol


----------



## VaiFanatic

I got screwed for 3s and was thrown in silver. I've had nothing but teammates who do nothing! I can't attack and defend from three people on three different fronts at the same time.

I'm a team competitor, so I don't really do ones, never really did well in them. My gold rating in 1s was also stiffed when they did that whole season change thing a few years back. Now I'm showing my highest was silver -_-

Kept my diamond rating in teams though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> There is a group called OCN i believe. I gave it over to Doom way back. Im not sure what he has done with it, but I was logged in two weeks ago and it had like 15 or 20 people in it. However, people don't Idle groups like they are supposed. Nor do they use the chat. I just don't get it..


I'm very on again off again. I think most people are though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm very on again off again. I think most people are though.


I think SCII is a on-off game in itself. Too unforgiving and absurd at points, too much fun at others.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I'd agree. I find myself having to take breaks because I just get too burned out on it and I begin to play worse. That makes for even less fun.


----------



## Mwarren

I've been playing a lot lately and steady as well.

Already about hit my goal for the month though, within about 4 days I went from silver to plat and am now beating top diamonds.

Next goal will be to hit GM level by end of July.

T feels a lot more powerful now with widow mines, they help a ton in TvZ.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I've been playing a lot lately and steady as well.
> 
> Already about hit my goal for the month though, within about 4 days I went from silver to plat and am now beating top diamonds.
> 
> Next goal will be to hit GM level by end of July.
> 
> T feels a lot more powerful now with widow mines, they help a ton in TvZ.


Widow mines have been the bane of my existence as a Zerg player.


----------



## sweffymo

I finally hit Gold for the first time this season.









However I am hoping to improve more now because I'm starting to try "the staircase" method to practice my macro, since my macro is really, really bad. I got to GM-level spending and base saturation speeds on the 1st day I tried step 1, but step 2 is quite a bit harder so I expect it to take more time for me to get to a high enough level to be satisfied with my macro.


----------



## Tych

I went from Silver to Masters in 3s in about a few weeks last year, then I got scared and didn't play 3s for a long time lol. Now I'm hovering in silver and bronze. It sucks because my teammates usually suck. Trying to get back up there though, been a little rusty as of late, but that's alright


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I've been playing a lot lately and steady as well.
> 
> Already about hit my goal for the month though, within about 4 days I went from silver to plat and am now beating top diamonds.
> 
> Next goal will be to hit GM level by end of July.
> 
> T feels a lot more powerful now with widow mines, they help a ton in TvZ.


Sounds pretty impressive! Last time I kinda played I was playing Diamonds but struggling. I am very stubborn and don't play the meta though. Never use widow mines, play mech in TvP, WoL style in TvZ, ect.

I want to get back into SCII, I really do, but I'm 30 and it seems like such a huge commitment. Having an internal struggle.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I keep playing with people who are bad, and it's making me play worse. I just had a guy go 100% Marauders...


----------



## Tych

Do It man, just do it. Lol. I wish I could play 1s. I find it really hard, I prefer the team work but I think it would still be fun. I just super suck at 1s.


----------



## Tych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> I keep playing with people who are bad, and it's making me play worse. I just had a guy go 100% Marauders...


Thats lame dude


----------



## VaiFanatic

It is lame, very lame. My protoss player made a mothership, then fizzled out after he said he was going "stocers"...

I quit!! I used to be phenomenal in a 1v1 environment in the original StarCraft. In II, I'm solid Gold player.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sounds pretty impressive! Last time I kinda played I was playing Diamonds but struggling. I am very stubborn and don't play the meta though. Never use widow mines, play mech in TvP, WoL style in TvZ, ect.
> 
> I want to get back into SCII, I really do, but I'm 30 and it seems like such a huge commitment. Having an internal struggle.


I was struggling as well until I realized that widow mines > than siege tanks for the most part.

Once you start to replace siege tanks with widow mines in all matchups besides TvT your win rates will go up.

Also, 2 rax on 1 base still works against protoss. It forces them to use overcharge and you can hit timing attacks just like back in WoL.

Aggressive play still works really well. 1/1/1 TvT, Hellion expand into widow mine marine/medivac TvZ, and heavy aggression with MMM TvP (later adding mines and ghosts) is what I play right now and it works really well for me.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sounds pretty impressive! Last time I kinda played I was playing Diamonds but struggling. I am very stubborn and don't play the meta though. Never use widow mines, play mech in TvP, WoL style in TvZ, ect.
> I want to get back into SCII, I really do, but I'm 30 and it seems like such a huge commitment. Having an internal struggle.


I hear you, I'm 25 and I find myself playing more and more simple games, where you can just jump in, play for a while and then quit. Like BF3, Euro Truck Sim 2, Diablo 3, etc games that don't require commitment. I really want to jump back in SC2, but just imagining the effort and the nerves I'll have to invest in it, already pulls my mouse towards the BF3 icon...


----------



## espn

There is way to always win in sc2 and have fun. But non ranked. Not hack no practice
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I hear you, I'm 25 and I find myself playing more and more simple games, where you can just jump in, play for a while and then quit. Like BF3, Euro Truck Sim 2, Diablo 3, etc games that don't require commitment. I really want to jump back in SC2, but just imagining the effort and the nerves I'll have to invest in it, already pulls my mouse towards the BF3 icon...


----------



## Tych

I find myself when I play SC2 alone, I play 1 or 2 games. It takes so much out of you. Luckily I got bf3 when it was free on origin so I can have some simpler games to play.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tych*
> 
> I find myself when I play SC2 alone, I play 1 or 2 games. It takes so much out of you. Luckily I got bf3 when it was free on origin so I can have some simpler games to play.


I would watch youtube or do other stuff when I play sc2, and I will just finish all of them when I feel like the game should be ended. I just play them until I want to finish them.


----------



## Tych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> I would watch youtube or do other stuff when I play sc2, and I will just finish all of them when I feel like the game should be ended. I just play them until I want to finish them.


You must be a boss then lol.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tych*
> 
> You must be a boss then lol.


in the game that I create and they choose to join my game, yes


----------



## espn

It is not customized game or customized game. I just play official maps.


----------



## Tych

Haha oh alright. I guess that counts? I thought you were just so boss that you choose when a game ends, by stomping on the enemy lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> not customized game or customized game


neither of those? Wow.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> neither of those? Wow.


Yes so the other team always feel nightmare of the day


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tych*
> 
> Haha oh alright. I guess that counts? I thought you were just so boss that you choose when a game ends, by stomping on the enemy lol.


I am not good and dont practice at all. I think game is just for relaxing and I wouldnt take it serious. Play others and make them suffer is much fun than killing boring predictable diablo AI.


----------



## Mwarren

I find playing SC2 to be therapeutic especially 1v1 matchmaking.

It never wears me out.

A few years ago I was up to about 40-50 games a day.

Right now I'm at about 20-30 on a good day.


----------



## Tych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I find playing SC2 to be therapeutic especially 1v1 matchmaking.
> 
> It never wears me out.
> 
> A few years ago I was up to about 40-50 games a day.
> 
> Right now I'm at about 20-30 on a good day.


That's insane! I've played 1 or 2 1v1 since WoL same out


----------



## ronnin426850

When I play, I do 10 to 15 games, not more. Sometimes I give up after just 4 or 5.


----------



## eosgreen

:27 and i come back get masters and quit. team game complaints remind me of league of legends. basically any team game you are gonna have "bad teamates" because you are a team but ur not talking to each other. i ended up playing a lot this time around tho got a few friends accs masters and stuff. its fun to do dumb cheese like proxy hatches and stuff in low masters and below. u can do even more crazy **** in gold its really really fun but i guess its kinda a dick move to guys trying to get better? idk its fun for me

if anyone wants help in teams or 1v1 just msg me. carryin ppls is fun.

if you wana get high in team games you gota get good at 1v1 first


----------



## DIYDeath

Started playing em some sc2 again, got placed in plat.
I'm kinda loling right now because Im so rusty and unfamiliar with the meta I shouldn't be in plat.
Oh well, guess I don't need to be refined or familiar with that's viable to win 3/4 of my games.


----------



## Mwarren

Made it to top diamond without much trouble but have no intention to continue playing.

I just don't get the same satisfaction out of this game that I used to before it started to die off in NA.

Also, I'm pretty much convinced you can play WoL style aggressive 1-2 base style up to GM on NA server.


----------



## Jaydev16

Can I get SC2 for free somehow (legally)? Like in a giveaway or contest (maybe a trial player's tourney?)?


----------



## espn

It is so cheap now since lol changes the gaming world
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Can I get SC2 for free somehow (legally)? Like in a giveaway or contest (maybe a trial player's tourney?)?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Can I get SC2 for free somehow (legally)? Like in a giveaway or contest (maybe a trial player's tourney?)?


The Starter Edition is free, do you know about that?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The Starter Edition is free, do you know about that?


Yea, you can play online. The meet a friend then have that friend invite you to the party and bam! You will be play a mostly unlocked game.


----------



## CravinR1

Arent yoi limited to terran


----------



## Jaydev16

I meant, can I download the trial version to enter a trial tournament or giveaway or smth to get the full version?

Its still $40 BTW.


----------



## Cybertox

They still havent added any new units skins, that is pathetic considering how much time has passed.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Arent yoi limited to terran


No, not anymore


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Made it to top diamond without much trouble but have no intention to continue playing.
> 
> I just don't get the same satisfaction out of this game that I used to before it started to die off in NA.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty much convinced you can play WoL style aggressive 1-2 base style up to GM on NA server.


depends what race. you used to and thats how you did carrys. the best gm carrys did terran/toss and often random because learning 2 base and 1 1/2 base (for zerg) all ins were very easy to do. atm u cant really 2 base all in protoss because of MSC and vs terran its much much harder now that they changed maps for blink stalker and reaper is a pretty standard opener for scouting protoss tech

now if you are a protoss player then 2 base all in is 100 percent the best way to ladder at low gm high masters for sure


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> depends what race. you used to and thats how you did carrys. the best gm carrys did terran/toss and often random because learning 2 base and 1 1/2 base (for zerg) all ins were very easy to do. atm u cant really 2 base all in protoss because of MSC and vs terran its much much harder now that they changed maps for blink stalker and reaper is a pretty standard opener for scouting protoss tech
> 
> now if you are a protoss player then 2 base all in is 100 percent the best way to ladder at low gm high masters for sure


I 1 1/2 based a lot with zerg against high masters peeps. It was mainly successful due to being able to hide the lack of droning with a few lings and then bane busting behind it. It really worked when Toss quit doing FFE, but the wins did slow down eventually.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> depends what race. you used to and thats how you did carrys. the best gm carrys did terran/toss and often random because learning 2 base and 1 1/2 base (for zerg) all ins were very easy to do. atm u cant really 2 base all in protoss because of MSC and vs terran its much much harder now that they changed maps for blink stalker and reaper is a pretty standard opener for scouting protoss tech
> 
> now if you are a protoss player then 2 base all in is 100 percent the best way to ladder at low gm high masters for sure


I was playing as Terran.

2 base is still viable vs Toss, on shorter maps you can force overcharge's and play aggressive even taking them on out 2 base.

Vs zerg I was able to win using a heavy 2 base marine/tank push and vs terran a 1 base 1/1/1 into expand won me most tvt's.

I'm sure that with good enough micro those builds alone can take up tp GM on NA, especially considering NA GM isn't considered that good on the pro scene.


----------



## eosgreen

no u cant really 2 base all in protoss to gm sorry its not possible there is no "this maps short enough" at all ever anywhere anytime nop

there was a great example of this polt vs trap at mlg

edit - actually tho there is arguably the scv pull "before storm" but all the protoss needs to do to win is ff a choke sac 3rd and just wait for storm lol


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> no u cant really 2 base all in protoss to gm sorry its not possible there is no "this maps short enough" at all ever anywhere anytime nop
> 
> there was a great example of this polt vs trap at mlg
> 
> edit - actually tho there is arguably the scv pull "before storm" but all the Protoss needs to do to win is ff a choke sac 3rd and just wait for storm lol


You mis comprehended by post.

I would play 2 base and would deny the Protoss's/Zerg's/and even most Terrans third with a heavy emphasis on army production while on 2 bases which would lead to me winning games before any of the people that I played against got their third up.

I might be on 3 bases when I win but most players play very greedy with an emphasis on getting 3 bases fast where I was playing with an emphasis of pressuring on 1/2 bases while building up a huge army to deny my opponents third while grabbing my own third after getting my production up.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> You mis comprehended by post.
> 
> I would play 2 base and would deny the Protoss's/Zerg's/and even most Terrans third with a heavy emphasis on army production while on 2 bases which would lead to me winning games before any of the people that I played against got their third up.
> 
> I might be on 3 bases when I win but most players play very greedy with an emphasis on getting 3 bases fast where I was playing with an emphasis of pressuring on 1/2 bases while building up a huge army to deny my opponents third while grabbing my own third after getting my production up.


k but that logic doesnt work

a zerg can get 3 bases fully or nearly fully saturated before you attack always. thats how zerg works. protoss has msc and ff for defenders adv as well as terran requires rallying new units

if you could just "stop them from taking a 3rd by attacking" everyone would do it... its not that simple. i find it impossible to lose to a terran who goes up to 5 rax before putting down a 3rd cc. they are so all in its not even funny. i crush the bio ball 2 times and they have nothing and then just lose. 2 base play in the current meta is just AWFUL unless you are protoss


----------



## Mwarren

FF and MSC can be burned up while you're on two bases and play aggressive.

Also, opening gas first hellion banshee denys any fast third from a zerg.

There's nothing all in about getting production up on 2 bases and playing aggressive. If I lose a battle with my units I'm normally sitting on 3 bases , 12 raxes, 2 factorys, a starport, and double upgrades by that point.

Also, you can stop them from taking a third by attacking on NA servers because even the best NA players aren't even half as good as even the worst Korean pros.

There are pros like Polt that play aggressive styles as well and he is considered one of the best Terrans.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> FF and MSC can be burned up while you're on two bases and play aggressive.
> 
> Also, opening gas first hellion banshee denys any fast third from a zerg.
> 
> There's nothing all in about getting production up on 2 bases and playing aggressive. If I lose a battle with my units I'm normally sitting on 3 bases , 12 raxes, 2 factorys, a starport, and double upgrades by that point.
> 
> Also, you can stop them from taking a third by attacking on NA servers because even the best NA players aren't even half as good as even the worst Korean pros.
> 
> There are pros like Polt that play aggressive styles as well and he is considered one of the best Terrans.


k that doesnt make sense tho. to beat a player taking a 3rd with defenders advantage you must be playing a strong 2 base style vs an overly greedy style. if they dont get greedy you lose and they pull ahead....

what league are you lol cus you are saying things like "NA is bad" and "pros on KR" but you are not a pro and pros dont break the rules of RTS. idc how good jaedong is at zvz. if he attacks me with roaches at 44 drones vs my 55 drones im gonna CRUSH him every time because defenders advantage in roach v roach is VERY big (certain maps) and he wont be able to break spines + roach + my closer rally

a pet peeve of mine is ppl who dont know what they are saying "saying thing" so maybe i shoudlnt respond lol but im betting at best you are diamond but prob plat


----------



## CravinR1

Jaedong would kill you from micro + macro alone


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Jaedong would kill you from micro + macro alone


yes but my point is you cant beat some things in sc2 with skill. if you 6 pool vs terran who walls off idc who you are you lose

same goes for two players with the same mmr on ladder. you cant just "will yourself" to deny a 3rd base. im a nobody and i win 100 percent of my games vs terrans who go rax before 3rd cc. 100 percent and the games are NEVER close. there is a reason NO ONE does it at high levels


----------



## DoomDash

Reading this article was particularly depressing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/460550-welcome-to-zparcraft-ii

Anyone remember not long after HotS came out I was already saying WoL was better? I wasn't lying. The scene and state of this game is down right depressing, and I don't think David Kim has what it takes to fix it.


----------



## DIYDeath

Hate to say it but this is what happens when you screw up the design of your game that badly.
Its not that the game is unbalanced, its as balanced as they can make it but Starcraft 2 has some disparity between effort needed to implement strategy and effort needed to implement counters.

Poster boy for this problem is the Marine, the marine is overpowered. I think we all know that, they're a mineral sink with insane dps and a small size so they can be clumped. They also get some pretty broken upgrades.

Now the reason why they're balanced is because you can fit so many into a small area that AoE becomes their counter.

The issue though lies in the fact that Terran are never given incentive to do anything but "lol marines+other units" because marines are that good and without serious redesigning of the terran race you cannot just nerf the marine because mostly all their other units are awful niche units that can only be effectively used in X scenario.

Another issue with the marine is with splits and stim they counter their counters.

I'm picking on terran because if I did this to Protoss we'd have an essay post on our hands and if I did this to zerg I'd have 3 sentences.

LotV basically needs to gut the game and redesign the units from scratch so the design of the units 1) makes sense (why the hell does the marauder, who has higher hp than the marine have more range? What is the point in that for example) 2) needs faster balance patches (I'd rather have them jump the gun on a few scenarios than let another Winfestor BL situation happen) and lastly 3) balance the game for X leauge and above. The esport sc2 concept failed, no one is drinking that koolaid anymore. Its time for Blizzard to adapt and make the game balanced for more than the GM league unless they enjoy alienating 3/4 of their playerbase.

Don't confuse that with catering to, for example, gold league. I mean take diamond+ into consideration when determining stats, unit roles, etc.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> unless they enjoy alienating 3/4 of their playerbase.


Well, considering the next exp will sell no matter what, and by the time SC3 comes all the staff at Blizz will be different.. why would they care about their playerbase? To them we are just electricity bill for the servers, once we've paid for the game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Well, considering the next exp will sell no matter what, and by the time SC3 comes all the staff at Blizz will be different.. why would they care about their playerbase? To them we are just electricity bill for the servers, once we've paid for the game.


Because by alienating your player base you reduce future sales. If their esports plan worked, then fine, they could get away with the alienating but it backfired so now in order to salvage a flagship product they're gonna have to do some drastic stuff.

Be it an amazing campaign (lol)
Or revamped multiplayer design
Or bringing back Warcraft 3's custom map system

But something has to happen.


----------



## poroboszcz

The problem with balancing for under GM leagues is that it's kind of pointless as unit balance has very little impact on the outcome of the match. You can't look at a game of a diamond player and say "damn, his macro was perfect and he got the most out of his units, but this timing is just impossible to hold without nerfing x or buffing y".

As for the state of the game I think it's OK (even though I don't play anymore, just sometimes watch a tournament). The games are diverse, unlike at the end of WoL and it doesn't seem like there are any glaring balance issues. Sure, in terms of eSports, it's far from Dota 2 or LoL, but then would you like it to be like those games? It's more complex, more competitive, more demanding and so it has less players, because most people are just looking to have fun rather than spend hours practising. I can't find any stats now, but I think it's still better then Broodwar ever was, with more active player world-wide, higher prices and more tournaments. And in terms of value for money, I've personally got more hours of great gameplay out of SC2 then from most other games.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> The problem with balancing for under GM leagues is that it's kind of pointless as unit balance has very little impact on the outcome of the match. You can't look at a game of a diamond player and say "damn, his macro was perfect and he got the most out of his units, but this timing is just impossible to hold without nerfing x or buffing y".


You sure can with Diamond league and higher and by doing so its healthier for the game as you're not balancing the average experience on the actions of people who are the literal cream of the crop, the ones that most of us will never, ever be as good as.

The best way to put it is esports is football and sc2 is the XFL.


----------



## eosgreen

to fix the game you would need to remove the imbalanced macro mechanics (msc is a macro mechanic imo as is chrono) mule and queen

remove FF warp in, buff hydra roach and gateway nerf marines and rauders

- standard army battles of non free or exploding units like banes for example. hydra roach ling is core z marine marauder is core t and gateway zel is core P and they should fight each other on equal grounds. for example if they make more zel you make more roach if they make more roach you make more rauders. if equal army supplys of equally balanced core units are used i feel it should be an even fight. this idea would lead to less of those "well that army crushed the other army in 30seconds gg"

- tech is countered by tech but having a tech unit shouldnt make more core units such one sided fights (ex 2 collosi vs roach hydra or mmm and you find yourself dead in seconds)

there are no core armys and the greed is so easy.... PDF is dumb, PDD is so imba, free units like locust and broodlords (broods are dick tho) a 13 range anti massive air unit (lawl)

storms too strong we know the story and we can all go on and on and on. the game will NOT be remade but thats what it needs its sad but true


----------



## DIYDeath

Or they could just implement a armor system that actually makes sense.

WC3 had it right and this would fix MOST of the sc2 design issues.
Quote:


> Attack Types
> 
> Normal
> Normal attacks do extra damage against Medium armor, and reduced damage to Fortified armor.
> 
> Piercing
> Piercing attacks do extra damage to Unarmored units and Light armor, and reduced damage to Fortified, Medium armor.
> 
> Siege
> Siege attacks do extra damage to Fortified armor and Unarmored units, and reduced damage to Medium armor and Heroes.
> 
> Magic Damage
> Magic attacks do extra damage against Light and Heavy armor, and reduced damage to Medium, Fortified armor, and Heroes. Magic attacks do 66% extra damage to ethereal units, and zero damage to magic-immune units.
> 
> Unarmored
> Unarmored takes extra damage from Piercing, and Siege attacks
> 
> Medium
> Medium armor takes extra damage from Normal attacks, reduces damage from Piercing, Magic, and Siege attacks.
> 
> Heavy
> Heavy armor takes extra damage from Magic attacks.
> 
> Fortified
> Fortified armor greatly reduces Piercing, Magic, Hero, and Normal attacks, but takes extra damage from Siege attacks.


http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/armorandweapontypes.shtml


----------



## DoomDash

Started playing ( again ). I guess I'll set my goals for high Diamond by the end of this season, and masters next. 12-0, no promotion ( gold ).


----------



## Sainesk

So WOL and HOTS are only $20 now on Battle.net (I think permanently, not limited time). Wish they'd at least announce the final expansion, feel like the game really needs it...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> So WOL and HOTS are only $20 now on Battle.net (I think permanently, not limited time). Wish they'd at least announce the final expansion, feel like the game really needs it...


It better fix some of the major design issues it has! It has to be good, better than HotS, to not die.


----------



## Jaydev16

Starcraft1 is only available on Battle.net as well? And what's its' price? I can 't see the price if I don't buy it.


----------



## Anti!!

Check on Amazon too. Ive seen it in the battle chest for as low as 19.99 before.


----------



## DoomDash

17-3 no promotion. Come on!!!!


----------



## Cyro999

It waits for your MMR to average out some before swinging you up/down in leagues - the league is just an approximation of your ranking, not what your ranking actually is at the moment, they're designed to change much more slowly than your MMR

If you're capable of winning 85% of your games, the system understands that it has no idea what your league is supposed to be, so it doesn't make drastic changes for a while


----------



## DoomDash

I miss when there was no MMR decay. I'd rather be placed in my old league and get demoted than crush a bunch of gold players.

20-3 now. My first loss was a disconnect, 2nd was legit, got a EU 16x masters who beat me very convincingly, and the 3rd loss was a TvT that had a very nontraditional banshee timing that surprised me and I let do more damage than it should have.

Still playing 100% mech. My favorite thing about low league games is the Zerg's give me easy wins because they don't know how to make swarm hosts.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I miss when there was no MMR decay. I'd rather be placed in my old league and get demoted than crush a bunch of gold players.
> 
> 20-3 now. My first loss was a disconnect, 2nd was legit, got a EU 16x masters who beat me very convincingly, and the 3rd loss was a TvT that had a very nontraditional banshee timing that surprised me and I let do more damage than it should have.
> 
> Still playing 100% mech. My favorite thing about low league games is the Zerg's give me easy wins because they don't know how to make swarm hosts.


Can you please upload a replay of your second loss?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Can you please upload a replay of your second loss?


Um, I guess. I don't know why you'd want to watch it. It's one sided, fast, boring, and I make a huge obvious mistake which results in my losing the entire game.

But if you really want to watch said game.....


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Um, I guess. I don't know why you'd want to watch it. It's one sided, fast, boring, and I make a huge obvious mistake which results in my losing the entire game.
> 
> But if you really want to watch said game.....


Thanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Thanks


you're welcome, I guess :/.


----------



## DoomDash

Cool micro.


----------



## DoomDash

Finally got promoted. Sitting at 24-3 in Platinum now. One more league to go for my goal this season.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool micro.


Talking more about Tom Cruise and less about the game. I hate those guys, they are ruining it for me.

EDIT: SICK game!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Talking more about Tom Cruise and less about the game. I hate those guys, they are ruining it for me.
> 
> EDIT: SICK game!


I love them.


----------



## ronnin426850

Guys, I think to try and get into Protoss, can you recommend a tutorial for noobs? If there is an article somewhere that explains things in plain text, that'd be great


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I love them.


"Oh, now I know you farted, Tasteless"
"Whenever I see the S on Superman, I think This guy is definitely a vampire".


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> "Oh, now I know you farted, Tasteless"
> "Whenever I see the S on Superman, I think This guy is definitely a vampire".


yep, love him!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Guys, I think to try and get into Protoss, can you recommend a tutorial for noobs? If there is an article somewhere that explains things in plain text, that'd be great


the beauty of toss is you dont really need a real load order, you can just wing it with a goal in mind if you're efficient.

In fact you're better off learning that way as well as watching lots of pro replays than learning from some crappy arbitrary guide.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> the beauty of toss is you dont really need a real load order, you can just wing it with a goal in mind if you're efficient.
> 
> In fact you're better off learning that way as well as watching lots of pro replays than learning from some crappy arbitrary guide.


I'd say protoss is actually the most build order dependent race.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'd say protoss is actually the most build order dependent race.


Yeah I agree with this actually. Things like chrono boost can give you some really fast timings or crazy all ins, which is why you see them so often, and with so much variety.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I agree with this actually. Things like chrono boost can give you some really fast timings or crazy all ins, which is why you see them so often, and with so much variety.


I'm gonna disagree, you have several generic openers you can use which can segway into fast expands or aggression depending on what you feel like doing. Heck, you can open with cheese and transition into a real build if you want to punish a simple mistake on the opponent's side.

I mean if a crappy diamond player like me can spank masters and give low GMs a run for their money (when I bring my a-game and they're playing a little sloppy) without using a build order that's a testament to not needing one.

Protoss do not need build orders but if you forgo a build order you need to understand how to be as efficient as possible and you need to know the meta timings or someone will punish you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm gonna disagree, you have several generic openers you can use which can segway into fast expands or aggression depending on what you feel like doing. Heck, you can open with cheese and transition into a real build if you want to punish a simple mistake on the opponent's side.
> 
> I mean if a crappy diamond player like me can spank masters and give low GMs a run for their money (when I bring my a-game and they're playing a little sloppy) without using a build order that's a testament to not needing one.
> 
> Protoss do not need build orders but if you forgo a build order you need to understand how to be as efficient as possible and you need to know the meta timings or someone will punish you.


I think its still most important for them. The reason you can beat people better than you probably has to to more with the fact that protoss has easier mechanics, stronger units, and much more forgiving micro than build order ease.

But that's just my opinion. Make some sick timings and you'll crush people far more reliably.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think its still most important for them. The reason you can beat people better than you probably has to to more with the fact that protoss has easier mechanics, stronger units, and much more forgiving micro than build order ease.
> 
> But that's just my opinion. Make some sick timings and you'll crush people far more reliably.


My point is those timings are not how you learn more about the race in general or its matchups; they're how you learn more about that specific timing which isn't the best way to learn unless you want to be the new Gaulzi (really good @ 1 thing, not very good at most others).

If you're going to start learning a race you're best off looking @ what pros do and adapting it on the fly, usually off of a opener of some sort (personally, I'm partial to FE, FFE or 1 gate expand), scout the opponent and then adapt what youve seen pros do to meet the context of the situation.

I was never talking about the skill level of Protoss but the act of learning them as a whole.


----------



## FrankoNL

I am a diamond zerg player but i am looking to play a little protoss to change it up once in a while. Only problem is: I have no clue what the standard "openers/buildorders" are. Where can i find some nice ( pref youtube ) guides and or builds that will help me figuring out what is what?


----------



## DoomDash

To the guys wanting to play Protoss. WHY!?!?!!? Protoss is already the most popular race in almost every league in almost every country. Seriously Terran needs some love, we are already a huge minority.

Anyway, I think I'll be Diamond pretty easy this season. Getting closer and closer. Also, this MMR decay / promotion system kinda sucks.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> To the guys wanting to play Protoss. WHY!?!?!!? Protoss is already the most popular race in almost every league in almost every country. Seriously Terran needs some love, we are already a huge minority.


I'll tell you why. I'm a big sci-fi fan and Terran is very far from my vision of 26th (or whatever) century human tech. It's whole lotta pop, and no rock at all. Big robots, small battlecruisers, marines that down motherships, tanks with pathetic armor, it annoys the heck out of me.

Protoss on the other hand has everything I expect in an RTS and an alien race - plasma shields, walkers, stationary cannons that fire on land AND air.

I have played Terran since day 1 of SC2. Can't do it anymore.

I don't promise I won't swing back though


----------



## HoneyBadger84

Terraaaaaaaan. (Had to be done)

Bring on the TastyWolf (Tasteless and ProxyWolf) casting.

I haven't played SC2 in forever on ladder but I still watch competitive play. I think if I did start playing again I would end up being one of those BM 50min swarmhost game players. I still don't get what Blizzard was thinking giving Zerg another "free unit" making unit. At least it combined with the elimination of the archon toilet & addition of tempests in HotS made the broodlord deathball less popular than it had already become because of its immobility eh? I remember those games of watching a Protoss and Zerg deathball dance around eachother for 15mins before one of them decided "les do dis"


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll tell you why. I'm a big sci-fi fan and Terran is very far from my vision of 26th (or whatever) century human tech. It's whole lotta pop, and no rock at all. Big robots, small battlecruisers, marines that down motherships, tanks with pathetic armor, it annoys the heck out of me.
> 
> Protoss on the other hand has everything I expect in an RTS and an alien race - plasma shields, walkers, stationary cannons that fire on land AND air.
> 
> I have played Terran since day 1 of SC2. Can't do it anymore.
> 
> I don't promise I won't swing back though


I never thought Protoss in Starcraft 2 was remotely cool. I don't like their micro ( drop ship is okay, but weak compared to Reaver days ), I don't like the unit design for basically anything besides some SC1 units, and I don't like their style of game play in general. I do think warp gate is a cool mechanic, but without any really impressive micro units they are so boring.

Terran just feels manly. I love the feeling of just destroying everything on the ground with critical mass siege tanks. Positional game play is very cool / tactical, have so many super amazing units when microed well, and they are the only race with a truly good mirror match up. One of the only ones you can come back from SUPER behind with a few smart plays. I can't tell you how many TvT's I've stolen from players who are far better mechanically.


----------



## HoneyBadger84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I never thought Protoss in Starcraft 2 was remotely cool. I don't like their micro ( drop ship is okay, but weak compared to Reaver days ), I don't like the unit design for basically anything besides some SC1 units, and I don't like their style of game play in general. I do think warp gate is a cool mechanic, but without any really impressive micro units they are so boring.
> 
> Terran just feels manly. I love the feeling of just destroying everything on the ground with critical mass siege tanks. Positional game play is very cool / tactical, have so many super amazing units when microed well, and they are the only race with a truly good mirror match up. One of the only ones you can come back from SUPER behind with a few smart plays. I can't tell you how many TvT's I've stolen from players who are far better mechanically.


I had a 50+min TvT once. 6 base vs 4, I won by going mass tank/BC/Viking (that was on WoL). Most boring game ever since we couldn't really attack eachother without going air.

Naturally it was on, you guessed it, Daybreak.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HoneyBadger84*
> 
> Naturally it was on, you guessed it, Daybreak.


The map pool after Antiga Shipyard has not impressed me once. All of them are huge dry open maps that almost never have anything to make the tank a more useful unit than the alternatives. Maps like daybreak are too massive for ladder, IMO. At least not every map needs to be so huge. Bring back the creative, smaller maps. Sick of seeing widow mines every high level game in place of tactical, positional, tank play.

First two years were awesome maps, IMO.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Terran just feels manly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The map pool after Antiga Shipyard has not impressed me once. All of them are huge dry open maps that almost never have anything to make the tank a more useful unit than the alternatives. Maps like daybreak are too massive for ladder, IMO. At least not every map needs to be so huge. Bring back the creative, smaller maps. Sick of seeing widow mines every high level game in place of tactical, positional, tank play.
> 
> First two years were awesome maps, IMO.


True those


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> True those


Yeah after posting that I had to rant a little bit on battle.net forums. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13595099637?page=1#0


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> To the guys wanting to play Protoss. WHY!?!?!!? Protoss is already the most popular race in almost every league in almost every country. Seriously Terran needs some love, we are already a huge minority.
> 
> Anyway, I think I'll be Diamond pretty easy this season. Getting closer and closer. Also, this MMR decay / promotion system kinda sucks.


Haha to explain why i did not choose terran: I can't play terran for crap. It is to microintensive, the macro is difficult with the different hotkeys and buildings and you get stomped if you don't have good mechanics. It is just to "hard" for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Haha to explain why i did not choose terran: I can't play terran for crap. It is to microintensive, the macro is difficult with the different hotkeys and buildings and you get stomped if you don't have good mechanics. It is just to "hard" for me.


probably the typical protoss player mindset. Heh


----------



## FrankoNL

Maybe i just know my limits.

I play zerg btw


----------



## FrankoNL

But i will try terran for a while. Maybe i will like it after some practice! Where can i find good guides?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> But i will try terran for a while. Maybe i will like it after some practice! Where can i find good guides?


It seems asking for guides here isn't a wise move, you get the regular "watch pro players and learn that way"


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Um, I guess. I don't know why you'd want to watch it. It's one sided, fast, boring, and I make a huge obvious mistake which results in my losing the entire game.
> 
> But if you really want to watch said game.....


Yeah, about that

First of all, I had uninstalled the game and installed it again just so I can watch your replay







OMG at those graphics! Didn't know they upped the engine, kudos Blizzard








Second, if he's saying the truth (which Zergs often do not), you lost to a drunk?








Third, it's funny how Zergs always try to get you to kill yourself. "Go ahead, mate, get right in there, I got nothin'"








And last, what should you have done in order to win? You said you made mistakes, but I'm too gold to recognize them







Please elaborate


----------



## Narokuu

Still learning proper builds and stuff, but i am streaming Sc2 right now. if anyone wants to play or come and give helpful advice i love it <3 twitch.tv/narokuu


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yeah, about that
> 
> First of all, I had uninstalled the game and installed it again just so I can watch your replay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG at those graphics! Didn't know they upped the engine, kudos Blizzard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, if he's saying the truth (which Zergs often do not), you lost to a drunk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third, it's funny how Zergs always try to get you to kill yourself. "Go ahead, mate, get right in there, I got nothin'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And last, what should you have done in order to win? You said you made mistakes, but I'm too gold to recognize them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate


Drunk or not 16x master on europe and some on NA means he didn't have nearly as many breaks as me.

As far as my mistakes, was poorly engaging and not having scans or scouting ahead before moving out. My army could have done a lot better if I had been in a good position. Also, I think I lost most my hellions in my BFH rush.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Drunk or not 16x master on europe and some on NA means he didn't have nearly as many breaks as me.
> 
> As far as my mistakes, was poorly engaging and not having scans or scouting ahead before moving out. My army could have done a lot better if I had been in a good position. Also, I think I lost most my hellions in my BFH rush.


Where would you rather take the engagement, and how would you position you army? Sorry about the stream of dumb questions, just trying to learn something







Watching games doesn't teach me much unless i know what is going on in player's head


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Where would you rather take the engagement, and how would you position you army? Sorry about the stream of dumb questions, just trying to learn something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching games doesn't teach me much unless i know what is going on in player's head


What I should have done, is tried to get here and hit the 3rd.


or








Hit his natural with one of the best spots in current SC2 ladder for tanks. The direction I went was terrible for mech, basically anywhere you can get surrounded, and caught unsieged is bad for mech. I play 100% mech not sure if u knew.

ANYWAY, I'm now 31-4. My division is new so I assume this isn't top platinum yet.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah after posting that I had to rant a little bit on battle.net forums. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13595099637?page=1#0


Looks like you have stirred up some more conversation on Blizzard forums. lol


----------



## DoomDash

I'm not hitting a point where its getting challenging. I lost my last two TvP's, I'm starting to think I need mines or something else mixed in. I got ghosts in one but it was already too late. Immortals are so strong vs mech, I don't know why Blizzard wanted this.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm not hitting a point where its getting challenging. I lost my last two TvP's, I'm starting to think I need mines or something else mixed in. I got ghosts in one but it was already too late. Immortals are so strong vs mech, I don't know why Blizzard wanted this.


You really don't know? Buff zerg in WOL, more players play zerg, more people buy HotS. Buff protoss in HotS, more people play protoss, more people buy the whatever it was called toss expansion


----------



## Anti!!

I am not sure if I agree that all players are that biased. I am definitely not. I am a die hard zerg, but I bought all expansions because I love the game, not for a slight zerg balance in our favor.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't agree either, though I do believe they have buffed units to be overly good to get people used to using them. Infestor specifically comes to mind, in WoL. They then nerf it to an acceptable level when people use it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Disagree if you will, but after 4 years in marketing you start to notice certain things







Also, your fine example of integrity doesn't disprove an argument based on what "most people" would do


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't agree either, though I do believe they have buffed units to be overly good to get people used to using them. Infestor specifically comes to mind, in WoL. They then nerf it to an acceptable level when people use it.


Are you implying the Infestor didn't need to get hit? Because if you are...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Are you implying the Infestor didn't need to get hit? Because if you are...


No, not at all. Of course they did. But before they were godly they were never used. So blizzard made them godly for awhile.

Beat 2 Diamonds, haven't lose to any yet, so I'm hoping "soon".


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, not at all. Of course they did. But before they were godly they were never used. So blizzard made them godly for awhile.
> 
> Beat 2 Diamonds, haven't lose to any yet, so I'm hoping "soon".


That is not a bad record at all!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, not at all. Of course they did. But before they were godly they were never used. So blizzard made them godly for awhile.
> 
> Beat 2 Diamonds, haven't lose to any yet, so I'm hoping "soon".


People didn't use them because sc2 players are closed minded until some pro opens them up to said possibility so I see that more as a community problem myself. Case and point: go to the sc2 forums and tell me how many elitists you run into who will nay say anything that a GSL player doesn't do, regardless of effectiveness or context.

I bet you'll reach a number that's...OVER 9000!
lol sorry, had to drop that because the irony is delicious (the reason power levels existed in db were to demonstrate how pointless they were).

Nice record.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, not at all. Of course they did. But before they were godly they were never used. So blizzard made them godly for awhile.
> 
> Beat 2 Diamonds, haven't lose to any yet, so I'm hoping "soon".


You're getting matched against Diamonds? I haven't laddered since attempting to break into Diamond as random and pretty much every game faced GMs/Masters (the Masters I stood a chance against and won a small percentage, but facing GMs felt like I should get promoted for not rage quitting because of the matchmaking system as soon as the game starts), I still have some replays up facing top 30 GM as high plat and someone casted one of my matches beating a Masters (lol):



Spoiler: Me vs Master's cheese


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> You're getting matched against Diamonds? I haven't laddered since attempting to break into Diamond as random and pretty much every game faced GMs/Masters (the Masters I stood a chance against and won a small percentage, but facing GMs felt like I should get promoted for not rage quitting because of the matchmaking system as soon as the game starts), I still have some replays up facing top 30 GM as high plat and someone casted one of my matches beating a Masters (lol):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Me vs Master's cheese


Yeah so far only 2 Diamonds. Ever since they introduced ladder MMR decay, as well as changing the leagues percentages, the match making system has been odd. It's hard to tell where people actually belong, I've played plat players clearly better than their Diamond counter parts, even golds actually. I have not fought any Masters or Grand Masters but I'm kind of glad for that because I don't know if I have the skills for it at the moment.

I would say I'm Diamond skill, definitely not masters anymore. It makes me sad that I was clearly so easily Masters back in the day ( never lost to Diamonds ), and now I don't feel like I'm close. Everyone has got better, I have gotten worse? Mech isn't very good? I don't know, something feels wrong, why is it so hard now? My goal was to get Grand Masters some day, but now I struggle with the thought, what if I can't get good enough? What if I'm not smart enough? I feel like I do a bunch right, but some things seem to come more naturally for the pros, like game awareness and really smelling out situations. Until I get GM I will always be disappointed in myself, at one point I was top 500 NA, now I can barely beat Diamonds consistently ( I would assume ).

Oh, and about going mech exclusively, probably not ideal in HotS since Protoss and Zerg have some easy ways of making it very hard. I think about playing bio again too, but since I've played 100% mech since HotS came out it would be like relearning the game, again, again







. I've even considered race switching, to the evil side.

How can I get GM? That is the question.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah so far only 2 Diamonds. Ever since they introduced ladder MMR decay, as well as changing the leagues percentages, the match making system has been odd. It's hard to tell where people actually belong, I've played plat players clearly better than their Diamond counter parts, even golds actually. I have not fought any Masters or Grand Masters but I'm kind of glad for that because I don't know if I have the skills for it at the moment.
> 
> I would say I'm Diamond skill, definitely not masters anymore. It makes me sad that I was clearly so easily Masters back in the day ( never lost to Diamonds ), and now I don't feel like I'm close. Everyone has got better, I have gotten worse? Mech isn't very good? I don't know, something feels wrong, why is it so hard now? My goal was to get Grand Masters some day, but now I struggle with the thought, what if I can't get good enough? *What if I'm not smart enough?* I feel like I do a bunch right, but some things seem to come more naturally for the pros, like game awareness and really smelling out situations. Until I get GM I will always be disappointed in myself, at one point I was top 500 NA, now I can barely beat Diamonds consistently ( I would assume ).
> 
> Oh, and about going mech exclusively, probably not ideal in HotS since Protoss and Zerg have some easy ways of making it very hard. I think about playing bio again too, but since I've played 100% mech since HotS came out it would be like relearning the game, again, again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I've even considered race switching, to the evil side.
> 
> How can I get GM? That is the question.


Probably you're not smart enough.








Now on a serious note, think about it, this game will be played for Decades! You don't sound like a 60 years old guy, so you have plenty of time to get to GM. And time is all it takes, mate







Yeah, sure there are some 16 year old pros with better nose for the game, do you seriously think they are smarter than you? What we can't match with talent, we match with brain, it just takes longer. Perhaps they were born with that better sense, but we can surely develop it.
So keep fighting, switch things up for Terran, but if I were you I wouldn't switch the race. You were and are good with terran. Just try a different strat. I, on the other hand, was never that good with terran, that is why I'm trying to switch to toss


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Probably you're not smart enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now on a serious note, think about it, this game will be played for Decades! You don't sound like a 60 years old guy, so you have plenty of time to get to GM. And time is all it takes, mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure there are some 16 year old pros with better nose for the game, do you seriously think they are smarter than you? What we can't match with talent, we match with brain, it just takes longer. Perhaps they were born with that better sense, but we can surely develop it.
> So keep fighting, switch things up for Terran, but if I were you I wouldn't switch the race. You were and are good with terran. Just try a different strat. I, on the other hand, was never that good with terran, that is why I'm trying to switch to toss


True True. I'm trying to stick to it now, 2 games a day minimum. I hope LotV helps some of the problems Terran has too, that would help.

But yeah, I still think I have plenty of room for improvement, it's just very hard and often frustrating, especially when progress is slow.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> it's just very hard and often frustrating, especially when progress is slow.


I often have the same feeling, but it gets better when I remind myself that it's the journey that matters, not the destination


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I often have the same feeling, but it gets better when I remind myself that it's the journey that matters, not the destination


I have had a pretty memorable moderately successful journey so far, however, like anyone with a winning attitude, it's not good enough for me yet.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I have had a pretty memorable moderately successful journey so far, however, like anyone with a winning attitude, it's not good enough for me yet.


I understand completely.


----------



## Sainesk

Remember to get in a game by the end of the week if you want to unlock the 4 year anniversary portraits:


----------



## Sugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Remember to get in a game by the end of the week if you want to unlock the 4 year anniversary portraits:


Thanks for the tip. I got the original sc1 portraits which I have been using for a long time now. I may just replace it.


----------



## ronnin426850

I had my first win with Protoss







vs Bronze zerg


----------



## Sugi

I haven't played 1v1 in an extremely long time. I doubt I could even inject anymore. I know I can't keep up with supply. :/


----------



## Anti!!

I remember one time when my MMR went way low from lack of playing. I was placed in bronze before I went up to masters. The trolls in Bronze are hilarious. I actually played some who were a challenge and once I started facing golds and Plats it go easier at times. haha


----------



## DoomDash

4-0 vs Diamonds now. I did give away 2 easy wins last night, just playing like crap. Easy I say!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I remember one time when my MMR went way low from lack of playing. I was placed in bronze before I went up to masters. The trolls in Bronze are hilarious. I actually played some who were a challenge and once I started facing golds and Plats it go easier at times. haha


I found Silver to be much easier than Bronze and quickly made my way to Gold, where I was near top for some time, but then stopped playing. I suppose I'm back in bronze now


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 4-0 vs Diamonds now. I did give away 2 easy wins last night, just playing like crap. Easy I say!


Dont you have a day job?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Dont you have a day job?


Not Anymore.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Not Anymore.


That really sucks. I hope you find work...unless you dont want to find work...then have fun!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That really sucks. I hope you find work...unless you dont want to find work...then have fun!


Mixed. I need the money, but I hate working! Guess that means part time!

BTW, PROMOTION!!!! My goal for the season!!!!!!!



Stats so far this season:



I am probably going to hit my actual skill level soon, which means my TvP will eventually fall below 50%, and my TvZ will if people get to swarm hosts ( at least until I can get avilo good ).


----------



## ronnin426850

Congrats! And I just bought HotS, so I'm about to get serious!







Can't wait to play ladder again!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Congrats! And I just bought HotS, so I'm about to get serious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to play ladder again!


Get on that! What is your goal this season, because I think setting one really helps motivate you.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Get on that! What is your goal this season, because I think setting one really helps motivate you.


My goal is not to be bronze







Essentially I would love to be back in Gold, but I will be content with Silver as long as I'm out of the bloodbath that Bronze is







It's a low goal, but I've never really been Platinum material, hopefully I'll improve now


----------



## FrankoNL

You can make it to plat. If a player like me can get diamond. you def can get plat.


----------



## ronnin426850

Lost all 5 placement matches, got placed in Silver. I guess now Bronze is reserved for people who have no keyboards.


----------



## ronnin426850

Score so far: 15 losses, 0 wins


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Score so far: 15 losses, 0 wins


You'll get there.


----------



## rmp459

Maybe a long shot

My friend is a master's zerg player and training for red bull battleground in detroit. He's looking for a master's level protoss player to practice with on a semi regular basis. He's main CDT/EDT but has a flexible schedule. Anyone available at the level ?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rmp459*
> 
> Maybe a long shot
> 
> My friend is a master's zerg player and training for red bull battleground in detroit. He's looking for a master's level protoss player to practice with on a semi regular basis. He's main CDT/EDT but has a flexible schedule. Anyone available at the level ?


There was plenty but now days lots are retired.


----------



## DoomDash

I actually think I might get masters this season. I don't want to speak too soon but Diamond hasn't been much different than Platinum.


----------



## DIYDeath

From my experience dia is exactly like plat but plat is unlucky. Unless we start comparing low plat to high diamond.


----------



## SirWaWa

any word on the last xpac? (it's really not an xpac, it's finally completing starcraft 2)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> any word on the last xpac? (it's really not an xpac, it's finally completing starcraft 2)


Haven't heard a thing!


----------



## Qu1ckset

Do you guys think with the next expansion SC2 will get busier ?


----------



## Gigalisk

I have a stream, but i havent been advertising.

Twitch.TV/Therealgigalisk


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Do you guys think with the next expansion SC2 will get busier ?


What is that?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Do you guys think with the next expansion SC2 will get busier ?


Yes, because the game will be complete - any changes after the last expansion will likely just be balance changes instead of multiplayer unit changes. Why invest energy now when an expansion with whole new armies/builds is coming and a large portion of the effort you put in will be flushed down the drain? sure you might have to alter your builds to some balance patches but at least it won't be like "I'll do some widow mine drops against this guy which i've perfected over thousands of games, oh wait they removed them from the game...







"

Very few people are going to care if you were GM in HOTS just like how people don't really care about who was/is GM in WOL now, they'll either have to maintain the level of play for LOTV for their history to remain common knowledge amongst the community or new players will arise to take their place. LOTV is in my opinion the true beginning and launch date of Starcraft 2.


----------



## DIYDeath

For 1-6 months it'll get busier then it'll die down again unless Blizzard somehow manages to 1) put the esports back into sc2 and 2) get rid of the stigma which drives new players away.

1) might happen but 2) wont happen and 2) is where you make sales; ergo my conclusion.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't think it will ever get as big as it once was, but its still got plenty of followers, just not as many casuals anymore.


----------



## DIYDeath

To be honest I'd like to see a plan on Blizzard's part to encourage new players. Sc2 isn't a bad game by any stretch but two factors drive players away

1) The game is the definition of steep learning curve and 2) The community needs the halo treatment. Never in my life have I ever been tempted to track someone's IP address, go to their home and brutalize them before sc2 bming. A little bit of trash talking is fine but once death threats, racism and so forth become common place I draw the line.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> To be honest I'd like to see a plan on Blizzard's part to encourage new players. Sc2 isn't a bad game by any stretch but two factors drive players away
> 
> 1) The game is the definition of steep learning curve and 2) The community needs the halo treatment. Never in my life have I ever been tempted to track someone's IP address, go to their home and brutalize them before sc2 bming. A little bit of trash talking is fine but once death threats, racism and so forth become common place I draw the line.


I mean, every game has this, but I didn't think SC2 was that bad. I hear LoL is the worst.

Also, I am now getting OWNED in Diamond. Guess Masters is further off than I thought.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I mean, every game has this, but I didn't think SC2 was that bad. I hear LoL is the worst.
> 
> Also, I am now getting OWNED in Diamond. Guess Masters is further off than I thought.


It could simply be burnout







take a rest for a day


----------



## tmontney

Would anyone in here be interested in something I made for SCII?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> Would anyone in here be interested in something I made for SCII?


Depends on the something


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Depends on the something


I heard from a friend of mine, who is an avid SCII player, that he couldn't find a good APM monitor (True APM). I created said monitor.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> I heard from a friend of mine, who is an avid SCII player, that he couldn't find a good APM monitor (True APM). I created said monitor.


Doesn't SC2 have one integrated? Or is there something wrong with it?

Other than that, congrats, creating stuff is the deal!


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Doesn't SC2 have one integrated? Or is there something wrong with it?
> 
> Other than that, congrats, creating stuff is the deal!


I don't play SC2, so I wouldn't know. I would assume, if it were so easy, he would've known about it by now. Idk.

Here's Revision 5 if you're interested. Also have a thread up in this section as well as tomshardware about it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> I don't play SC2, so I wouldn't know. I would assume, if it were so easy, he would've known about it by now. Idk.


ok, um, how do you test the correctness of your APM monitor than? And what do you consider an 'action'?


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> ok, um, how do you test the correctness of your APM monitor than? And what do you consider an 'action'?


Test the correctness? You mean like beta testing the program? I had the, who helped me with the design along with a few of his friends, use it. They said that it worked great. Otherwise, I definitely need more people to test it. It needs more exposure.

An action is a keystroke. According to him, any key from A to Z was considered OK.

Again, the program is based off what he told me to make. I just assumed he knew what he was doing.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> Test the correctness? You mean like beta testing the program? I had the, who helped me with the design along with a few of his friends, use it. They said that it worked great. Otherwise, I definitely need more people to test it. It needs more exposure.
> 
> An action is a keystroke. According to him, any key from A to Z was considered OK.
> 
> Again, the program is based off what he told me to make. I just assumed he knew what he was doing.


You should also include numbers 0-9 because that's group selection. And what about clicks?


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You should also include numbers 0-9 because that's group selection. And what about clicks?


Alright, I can definitely added that. As for mouse clicks, he didn't seem to want that. I can (probably) add those as well.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> Alright, I can definitely added that. As for mouse clicks, he didn't seem to want that. I can (probably) add those as well.


You should discuss that with him, because from what I'm reading, it seems I can select 20 Stakers with the mouse, press Ctrl+1 to group them, then press 1 and right click on the enemy base, and will have made 0 actions


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You should discuss that with him, because from what I'm reading, it seems I can select 20 Stakers with the mouse, press Ctrl+1 to group them, then press 1 and right click on the enemy base, and will have made 0 actions


See, I played WC3: RoC/FT and I had that grouping problem. I wish I knew about keyboard shorcuts all those years ago!

I will, but I can just as easily add these additions in Settings (so you can toggle them on/off).

Do you like the program so far?

We can move any further discussion to the thread I have for it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1505716/starcraft-ii-apm-monitor


----------



## ronnin426850

Decided to try some LoL.

"LoL" at that pathetic game and its ******ed community


----------



## ronnin426850

3 wins and 2 losses today, I'm top silver now


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 3 wins and 2 losses today, I'm top silver now


Get that gold now.


----------



## DoomDash

4-0 today. Beat one masters off racing.


----------



## DIYDeath

You know what annoys me? Terran get catered to way too much.

Playing vs Terran I notice just about every player wants to hit the stim timing, screw medivacs.
Now what bothers me about this is it's just as overpowered as the blink timing was - that's not to say either are impossible to hold (the point is if they severely nerf 1 timing that's somewhat hard for a Terran to hold but they leave a timing that's been around forever which is equally as hard for a toss to hold) but they're both way too effective at the earliest stage they become available.

That's just one example of the double standard but there's lots of em, if you look. (the problem with blink all-in being too strong is purely map design - which Blizzard is awful at while the problem with stim is that it augments arguably overpowered units -)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You know what annoys me? Terran get catered to way too much.
> 
> Playing vs Terran I notice just about every player wants to hit the stim timing, screw medivacs.
> Now what bothers me about this is it's just as overpowered as the blink timing was - that's not to say either are impossible to hold (the point is if they severely nerf 1 timing that's somewhat hard for a Terran to hold but they leave a timing that's been around forever which is equally as hard for a toss to hold) but they're both way too effective at the earliest stage they become available.
> 
> That's just one example of the double standard but there's lots of em, if you look. (the problem with blink all-in being too strong is purely map design - which Blizzard is awful at while the problem with stim is that it augments arguably overpowered units -)


Stim timings only seem strong because it's the only time where the ball is in Terran's court. Early game protoss is impossible to punish because of their godly mothershipcore. Protoss can basically open almost anyway they want in HotS, which includes incredibly greedy, and you can't punish them early anymore. Stim timing w/ scv pull is strong, but that's the only window where I would say Terran has a clear advantage ( albeit not that big ). Protoss also has the late game advantage.

Basically David Kim keeps trying to make Terran mid-game strong to lead to a more fair late game by giving them the potential to get ahead or even @ the mid-game. It's a stupid design. I don't think there is anything with certain races having advantages at different times but right now they are far too unbalanced in terms of when the race is powerful.

I play mech though.... so I have no stim timing, and I arguably play the entire game at a disadvantage







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> far too unbalanced in terms of when the race is powerful.


Doesn't that make the game interesting though? If you had perfect balance at every single second of every matchup, the game will devolve to micro showoff where the faster hand wins (that sounds strange, I realize that). Having moments of advantage for one race or another gives the player the opportunity to use his brain for something more than nerve impulse dispatcher and actually build a strategy according to the hardships and challenges these moments provide.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Doesn't that make the game interesting though? If you had perfect balance at every single second of every matchup, the game will devolve to micro showoff where the faster hand wins (that sounds strange, I realize that). Having moments of advantage for one race or another gives the player the opportunity to use his brain for something more than nerve impulse dispatcher and actually build a strategy according to the hardships and challenges these moments provide.


As I stated above, I don't have a problem with power shifts, but right now they need to be cleaned up a bit.


----------



## SirWaWa

after the game is FINALLY complete, will blizzard release REAL xpacs?!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> after the game is FINALLY complete, will blizzard release REAL xpacs?!


I liked the way they did things. It almost feels like we get new games.


----------



## DIYDeath

I play the campaigns, typically I feel like I get my money's worth out of it on that alone. However they'd be better off charging $30 and distributing it digitally unless the campaign kicks that much butt.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I play the campaigns, typically I feel like I get my money's worth out of it on that alone. However they'd be better off charging $30 and distributing it digitally unless the campaign kicks that much butt.


It will probably be $40. I think its a great deal, you get a great SP campaign, and you get basically an updated version of MP that can basically provide you with thousands of hours of gaming. I've got my moneys worth out of it that's for sure.


----------



## DoomDash

This guy said I didn't deserve my win after his failed oracle proxy didn't kill me. Right....


----------



## ronnin426850

You cheating bastard, how dare you not die?!


----------



## Gutterhulk

Hi guys if u looking for troll team games, or at times serious team games with lot of fun, add me derpfestor 623 that on NA server.


----------



## ronnin426850

I'll just drop this here


----------



## ronnin426850

5 matches played, all against T, all losses.
Why do I only get T today?


----------



## Anti!!

It happens


----------



## ronnin426850

Umm?! What am I missing?
I'm watching a life stream right now Soulkey vs Stats GSL3S, and there's a Mothership?! Why? How? Where am I? What happened?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It happens


Come back







.


----------



## Sainesk

think i'll check out these arcade games, look pretty cool:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











and new portraits getting added because of the arcade games:



edit: think my favorite of the 3 is ultimate boss battles...


----------



## ronnin426850

3 wins today







I loooove Carriers... So pretty!


----------



## Sainesk

Templar Tv -Dawn of War: The Last Stand is way better in my opinion, TTV game gets a little fun when you start finding powerups but besides that I can't see myself playing it much

Ultimate Boss Battles - funnily enough this game also resembles Dawn of War: The Last Stand in some aspects, except this has many fun elements missing from Templar TV - progressing/upgrading your hero and pretty unique boss skills/fights

Star Party - pretty fun(ny) to play with a bunch of buddies, popping most overlords races and such fairly entertaining


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> no plans to add even 1 hero slot in 2.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to play seasons and already have 12 lv 70s with a bunch of time invested in them you're going to have to say goodbye to one of them...


Umm, wrong thread? What are you talking about?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Umm, wrong thread? What are you talking about?


yes, the dangers of reading so many threads at once, i've edited the post to something actually relevant to this thread


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Umm, wrong thread? What are you talking about?


He meant to post in the Diablo 3 thread.


----------



## ronnin426850

1 hour 17 minutes of PvT on King Sejong, I'm top silver, T was top gold, carriers and phoenix/tempest vs ravens and Vikings, and I won! Wow was that an amazing game...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 1 hour 17 minutes of PvT on King Sejong, I'm top silver, T was top gold, carriers and phoenix/tempest vs ravens and Vikings, and I won! Wow was that an amazing game...


Tempests are really annoying. They do feel beatable at least. I had a lot of bad games last night, starting to see swarm hosts, and tempests more often.

Swarm hosts: I've complained about these before, but these have to be the dumbest units in all of SC2 history. I play mech, which forces Zergs to swarm hosts. They say that it's the only way to stop mech, and although that might be true, they make the game extremely lame and boring. I can't tell you how just 10 swarm hosts can basically hold off an entire mech army until you get mass ravens. Doesn't matter if you are ahead by 100 supply ( I have been) its impossible to push until mass Raven's. Not even siege tanks are that good defensively ( which they should be better ). They do also feel "beatable", but at a slight disadvantage, and in such a boring fashion. If mech is indeed unbeatable for Z, give them something that replaces the SH in LotV.


----------



## ronnin426850

How do you counter early roaches in PvZ?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> How do you counter early roaches in PvZ?


Immortals / Stalkers ? Forcefield?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> How do you counter early roaches in PvZ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Immortals / Stalkers ? Forcefield?


Skip the stalkers and that sounds about right. Immortals decimate roaches, especially with a +1 attack upgrade.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Immortals / Stalkers ? Forcefield?


That guy had really *early* roaches, no time for immortal... At least at my skill level.


----------



## Hennessey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That guy had really *early* roaches, no time for immortal... At least at my skill level.


Skill rays


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That guy had really *early* roaches, no time for immortal... At least at my skill level.


Then sentries and mothership core, keep them out of the main and let your nexus cannon decimate while you get immortals. Void Rays as the other guy suggested are not feasible that early.


----------



## Hennessey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Then sentries and mothership core, keep them out of the main and let your nexus cannon decimate while you get immortals. Void Rays as the other guy suggested are not feasible that early.


I was making a joke towards protoss players


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Then sentries and mothership core, keep them out of the main and let your nexus cannon decimate while you get immortals. Void Rays as the other guy suggested are not feasible that early.


Thanks, that sounds reasonable








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hennessey*
> 
> I was making a joke towards protoss players


I got it







And it's true, it's an A-move unit


----------



## DoomDash

Got accused of being an Avilo clone today, even though I played mech since hots came out long before I ever heard of him.

Watching him has helped me a great deal though.

Still probably at a disadvantage playing mech vs P/Z on most maps. I keep hearing swarm hosts are the only way to beat mech ZvT, people dont know what a viper is.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Got accused of being an Avilo clone today, even though I played mech since hots came out long before I ever heard of him.
> 
> Watching him has helped me a great deal though.
> 
> Still probably at a disadvantage playing mech vs P/Z on most maps. I keep hearing swarm hosts are the only way to beat mech ZvT, people dont know what a viper is.


People know vipers, but can't use them properly









I'm having a lot of issues in PvP, because chargelots and carriers are not nearly as effective there as vs T and Z


----------



## DoomDash

Last game was 1 hour and 10 minutes. Mech vs Swarm host takes FOREVER even if you are ahead.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hennessey*
> 
> I was making a joke towards protoss players


VR need positioning and have an active ability. They're as 1-a as marines are 1-a


----------



## ronnin426850

Yaaay!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yaaay!


Now just keep playing, get Gold.

Okay, my season so far:



Keep in mind a lot of those games were in gold to diamond.

Observations this season compared to 2 seasons ago:

Zergs at Diamond or below still not using Swarm Hosts enough ( or vipers ).

Terrans are MUCH MUCH better at playing mech, as well as defeating mech with bio. I think last time I played I ended the season at 85% TvT ratio.

There are A LOT of Terrans in Diamond!

My own improvements:
I've gotten a bit better at scouting.
I've gotten a bit better at using mines ( though plenty of room for more ).
I've gotten better at defending Protoss all ins.
I've gotten MUCH better at fighting vs Swarm Hosts ( Thanks to Avilo ). Still stupid battling free units but at least now I can occasionally beat them if I'm way ahead.
I've gotten a bit better at fighting Tempests ( Just use Raven's more ).

Other notes:
Mech still under powered vs Protoss. Immortals are too easy to use vs mech. I will try and work more ghosts in but they are ridiculously expensive.
Hellbat timings are very strong and can sometimes win games outright.
The push to get into masters seems do-able, but masters to GM is going to be one of the biggest tasks in my life!

I still get upset at swarm hosts and protoss things but over all I have better grasp on how to over come disadvantages a bit better now.


----------



## ronnin426850

This building look like something to you?!


----------



## DoomDash

I'm watching Code S RO32 w/ Flash. I hear he did sick.


----------



## DoomDash

Rank 4 in my Diamond division! Getting closer.


----------



## ronnin426850

When I win, I gain 10 pts, when I lose, I lose 15. Is that normal?!?!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> When I win, I gain 10 pts, when I lose, I lose 15. Is that normal?!?!


If its without bonus pool that is a pretty big difference. I typically lose more than I win, by 1-2 points.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> If its without bonus pool that is a pretty big difference. I typically lose more than I win, by 1-2 points.


Yeah, no bonus pool. Why is this happening?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yeah, no bonus pool. Why is this happening?


I have no idea.

Ugg terrible night. Went from top 4 in my division to 12~. Ran into a bunch of Protoss players, and mech still feels so under powered vs Protoss. It's all about that immortal ( and yes I've tried ghosts ). Immortals need to be harder or more beatable.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I have no idea.
> 
> Ugg terrible night. Went from top 4 in my division to 12~. Ran into a bunch of Protoss players, and mech still feels so under powered vs Protoss. It's all about that immortal ( and yes I've tried ghosts ). Immortals need to be harder or more beatable.


It was a bad night for me too. Started with 866 points, after 10 games ended up with 864. One T went mass reaper and widow, couldn't counter it on one base. Then 2 immortal pushes in PvP and I was down 3 games. Then I almost beat roaches, but a few misclicks ended me







I won the other games, but got much less points for win than I lost.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yeah, no bonus pool. Why is this happening?


It's kind of a good thing actually, although a bit annoying, as the system thinks you are better than your opponents.

When you start laddering and keep winning you get progressively better opponents until your w/l ratio gets stable. Your MMR (and your league) however doesn't change as fast as the skill of your opponents, so for example it's possible to be in Platinum and get matched against a Master player. The wider the gap between your current MMR and your opponent's MMR the more points you gain from the win (and the less you lose from the loss). If you win a lot your MMR gets higher and so you're favored by the system against most of your opponents. You are now getting less points for the win and losing more for the loss. If you look at streams of some top players with 60%+ w/l ratio, you can see how they only get a few points for the win, but lose a lot if they lose, as they're expected to win most of their games.

There's a thread on TL somewhere which explains it in more detail with graphs and all, but I can't find it right now.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> It's kind of a good thing actually, although a bit annoying, as the system thinks you are better than your opponents.
> 
> When you start laddering and keep winning you get progressively better opponents until your w/l ratio gets stable. Your MMR (and your league) however doesn't change as fast as the skill of your opponents, so for example it's possible to be in Platinum and get matched against a Master player. The wider the gap between your current MMR and your opponent's MMR the more points you gain from the win (and the less you lose from the loss). If you win a lot your MMR gets higher and so you're favored by the system against most of your opponents. You are now getting less points for the win and losing more for the loss. If you look at streams of some top players with 60%+ w/l ratio, you can see how they only get a few points for the win, but lose a lot if they lose, as they're expected to win most of their games.
> 
> There's a thread on TL somewhere which explains it in more detail with graphs and all, but I can't find it right now.


Oh, thanks







That makes sense. "Blizzard sense" at least


----------



## ronnin426850

Whoa! Ever seen this thing before?


EDIT: BTW how many of you think supply should be upped to 250?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Whoa! Ever seen this thing before?
> 
> 
> EDIT: BTW how many of you think supply should be upped to 250?


Yeah battle.net services as well as tons of others were getting DDOSed yesterday.

I think supply is fine, but if they got rid of swarm hosts I'd be okay with Zerg being able to hit like 220 supply. They can actually already go above supply if they make a bunch of spines, then units, then cancel. Terran can also have a bigger army late game when you can just use mules instead of scvs for mining minerals. Protoss doesn't have that but they don't need it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Today I won vs Platinum Terran!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Today I won vs Platinum Terran!


つ _༽つ THE POWER OF PROTOSS ༼ つ _༽つ

I played a Grand Master on ladder and played like poop, losing it.

I also played someone from oc.net that hated terran, and off raced as them vs me in ladder. He went mass marines tvt ... idk what he was thinking. This isn't protoss son!


----------



## Qu1ckset

Hate the new launcher, i dont care to have to look at all there stupid advertising on top of the icon not working when its open on my taskbar..... so annoyed...


----------



## r3d33m3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> BTW how many of you think supply should be upped to 250?


Me! I've been proposing this for like forever, 250 Supply would be giving us that little extra room we would need. Tbh only in 1v1 though, in teamgames, 200 is fine.


----------



## ronnin426850

Doesn't (TvT) look like a crying penguin to you?


----------



## ronnin426850

Is Nexus first impossible on ladder? Especially lower leagues? I tried it 3 times, 3 losses to macaroni.


----------



## TwistedTime

What are some basic build orders for all three races?

I have been gone for a long time and now I am trying to get back in. I am not good at the game and am planning on playing random in team matches until I can decide which race I like most and can manage my econ more.


----------



## Yukss

it is me or there is a adamantium wall to get masters.... jesus, im over 1k points and top diamond since last week facing 60% masters..


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwistedTime*
> 
> What are some basic build orders for all three races?
> 
> I have been gone for a long time and now I am trying to get back in. I am not good at the game and am planning on playing random in team matches until I can decide which race I like most and can manage my econ more.


just get terran, make few racks, medivacs and stim and heath, and you get gm in 2 days or lest


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> just get terran, make few racks, medivacs and stim and heath, and you get gm in 2 days or lest


How I wish that was so


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> just get terran, make few racks, medivacs and stim and heath, and you get gm in 2 days or lest


If you hack


----------



## Talon720

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> just get terran, make few racks, medivacs and stim and heath, and you get gm in 2 days or lest


Well thats not far off i know on ladder theres a similar build that includes like 2 hellbats with all that then they use scvs and medivacs to repair/heal hellbats its pretty ridiculous. Its very misleading on what and how many units you need to build because of how early it hits.


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> If you hack


this guy... do you know DoomDash ? he can tell you if im a hacker or no


----------



## DoomDash

If GM was that easy I'd be in it already.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> If GM was that easy I'd be in it already.


Tell Yukss to teach you a hack or two


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Tell Yukss to teach you a hack or two


omg silver NOOB do you know me to acused me as a hacker ? wanna play with me and see how i swipe the floor with you ?


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> If GM was that easy I'd be in it already.


i was joking about how op terrans are...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> omg silver NOOB do you know me to acused me as a hacker ? wanna play with me and see how i swipe the floor with you ?


Are you ******ed? Honest question.

I was joking. Even a moron could tell. WTH is wrong with you?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Are you ******ed? Honest question.
> 
> I was joking. Even a moron could tell. WTH is wrong with you?


He got that StarCraft rage, if you know what I mean.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Are you ******ed? Honest question.
> 
> I was joking. Even a moron could tell. WTH is wrong with you?


Nearly a year ago we used to play 1v1 games with him and someone posted replays in this thread and we wondered how he always knew what to make and how to respond in games. After watching the replays he would make actions to defend against things he had never scouted. He was in high diamond but his macro looked gold. Things just didn't add up. We simply confronted him and he raged just like he did. That reaction would confirm it for anyone. Then he left the thread for a few months and came back like nothing happened. I said something about it again and we go the same reaction we just got.

It is what it is. I don't really care. I am gonna raze him about it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Nearly a year ago we used to play 1v1 games with him and someone posted replays in this thread and we wondered how he always knew what to make and how to respond in games. After watching the replays he would make actions to defend against things he had never scouted. He was in high diamond but his macro looked gold. Things just didn't add up. We simply confronted him and he raged just like he did. That reaction would confirm it for anyone. Then he left the thread for a few months and came back like nothing happened. I said something about it again and we go the same reaction we just got.
> 
> It is what it is. I don't really care. I am gonna raze him about it.


Oh, I see







In that case, Yukss, pls teach me hacks, I want Diamond!


----------



## Yukss

you guys, i raged because is not fun at all being acused of hacker, im not a hacker, never use hacks before, and Anti!!, so you suggets that i dont get back to this thread ever again? i can upload at least 20 of my recents games... this is not fun,


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> you guys, i raged because is not fun at all being acused of hacker, im not a hacker, never use hacks before, and Anti!!, so you suggets that i dont get back to this thread ever again? i can upload at least 20 of my recents games... this is not fun,


Come on, dude, don't take it so seriously, it's all for giggles







Our opinion means nothing anyway, we could be joking with how you are hacker for the rest of your life. Imagine it as we being a bunch of crotchety old guys, this thread being the village bar, and we are joking about how you kissed a male prostitute once back in 1955 so now you eat nothing but sausage to remember the good old days







Same way, it's just a joke









edit: ^ this is some signature-grade stuff btw, isn't it?


----------



## espn

I just played a customzized game, three human and myself against one human player with 3 insanse level AI in an official game. We lost badly. Anyway way to win game like this?


----------



## ronnin426850

OMG Snute vs Hero on IEM, two amazing series, 6 amazing games, so amazed, much amaze, too wow to post right now!


----------



## ronnin426850

The moment a caster says "The nuke bomb is a nice harass unit", you know your game is broken.


----------



## ronnin426850

Did you just watch that Life vs First game on IEM ?!?!? This has GOT to be the most amazing game in SC2 ever. The deciding end battle - 33 minutes in the game!! - 2 zealots vs 15 drones with 5 *empty* carriers watching the skirmish, and several voidrays blocked by static defense. I cried. Ended in draw


----------



## Yukss

i saw it, first had the 1st game, he lost his voidrays.. 2nd was great game too.. 3rd was gg


----------



## DoomDash

Stupid Diablo update distracting me.


----------



## ronnin426850

I have a criticism of the "watch pro matches to improve" practice, tell me if that sounds valid to you: In pro matches, players invest a lot of time investigating their opposition and their habits, and change things up accordingly. You can't really be applying their tricks on the ladder, where you have no idea what kind of person you are playing against. From what little I know, the three things you need to learn to get to platinum are:
- Learn the rock-paper-scissors scheme of what beats what
- Learn to scout more than you think you should
- Learn to click fast and accurate

From plat up, you need to invest time in diversifying your builds for the different matchups, upgrades and composition, but that still is not what you learn by watching pro matches. Essentially the only thing you learn from pro matches are small tricks, which only work against the pro player they were meant to defeat, and a low or mid league player that doesn't scout good.

whaddoyathink?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I have a criticism of the "watch pro matches to improve" practice, tell me if that sounds valid to you: In pro matches, players invest a lot of time investigating their opposition and their habits, and change things up accordingly. You can't really be applying their tricks on the ladder, where you have no idea what kind of person you are playing against. From what little I know, the three things you need to learn to get to platinum are:
> - Learn the rock-paper-scissors scheme of what beats what
> - Learn to scout more than you think you should
> - Learn to click fast and accurate
> 
> From plat up, you need to invest time in diversifying your builds for the different matchups, upgrades and composition, but that still is not what you learn by watching pro matches. Essentially the only thing you learn from pro matches are small tricks, which only work against the pro player they were meant to defeat, and a low or mid league player that doesn't scout good.
> 
> whaddoyathink?


For the most part; you're right. Watching pros is mostly so you can see how they manage efficiency and for the newer players; to see certain builds in use.

Frankly, you dont need a build order in plat+ you can make stuff up on the fly and be effective. For example; vs zerg you can start with a FFE with a proxy pylon and a cannon @ the zerg nat. It royally screws them even if its scouted and lets you set up for pretty much any build you want as long as you're efficient and know which units are good against what units.

Once you get into masters then you're looking at optimal builds, until then just about anything can work if you're good enough at executing it.


----------



## Yukss

whaching pro matches is just like enjoying a showmatch and see how noob you really are XD.

This work in diamond and masters a lot (at least for me) i am toss

Vs terran in 4v4 maps always go proxy oracle into 4gate, he always always will send a reaper so you need to be prepared to kill it and avoid scout

Vs terran in 1v1 maps, again he will send a reaper so i play more standar like 1 gate expand, if i see 2 barrack + reactor i know that he is rushing so i chrono my gate to have my core rdy and 3 stalkers, if i hold the push i start the robobay and get my third base

Vs Toss, well toss is cheesy even in high leagues, i have to scout A LOT, like a month ago i was doing 4 gate all in in 1v1 maps, good results, all my crhonos on researching the warpgate, but lately im going like this, 1 gate, chrono 3 stalkers and mothershipcore and attack, then i add 2 more gates and research blink +1, is very solid, you can avoid the +1 if you see good reactions from your opponent.

Vs Toss in 4v4 maps i scout a lot too and play more relax, 1 gate expand, be prepared againts oracles and get my freacking coloss fast

Vs Zerg in 1v1 map, more standar, like 9 pilon 14 forge, and get my expand fast, you can a his expand by putting a pilon on his natural (everybody knows that) and lately is more fun play like 8/9 gate blink +1 all in, but you can always go zelots sentries, sentries inmortals, is tricky vs zergs, they can rush you with roaches, then some hidras, and then like 1000000000 mutas or even worst SH, what ajoke.

Vs zerg in 4v4 maps i always go nexus first and repeat all above..

my worst race againts is terran, stim is to strong..


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> whaching pro matches is just like enjoying a showmatch and see how noob you really are XD.
> 
> This work in diamond and masters a lot (at least for me) i am toss
> 
> Vs terran in 4v4 maps always go proxy oracle into 4gate, he always always will send a reaper so you need to be prepared to kill it and avoid scout
> 
> Vs terran in 1v1 maps, again he will send a reaper so i play more standar like 1 gate expand, if i see 2 barrack + reactor i know that he is rushing so i chrono my gate to have my core rdy and 3 stalkers, if i hold the push i start the robobay and get my third base
> 
> Vs Toss, well toss is cheesy even in high leagues, i have to scout A LOT, like a month ago i was doing 4 gate all in in 1v1 maps, good results, all my crhonos on researching the warpgate, but lately im going like this, 1 gate, chrono 3 stalkers and mothershipcore and attack, then i add 2 more gates and research blink +1, is very solid, you can avoid the +1 if you see good reactions from your opponent.
> 
> Vs Toss in 4v4 maps i scout a lot too and play more relax, 1 gate expand, be prepared againts oracles and get my freacking coloss fast
> 
> Vs Zerg in 1v1 map, more standar, like 9 pilon 14 forge, and get my expand fast, you can a his expand by putting a pilon on his natural (everybody knows that) and lately is more fun play like 8/9 gate blink +1 all in, but you can always go zelots sentries, sentries inmortals, is tricky vs zergs, they can rush you with roaches, then some hidras, and then like 1000000000 mutas or even worst SH, what ajoke.
> 
> Vs zerg in 4v4 maps i always go nexus first and repeat all above..
> 
> my worst race againts is terran, stim is to strong..


That's nice! I'll try some of that







My PvT is weakest as well.
Played vs Zerg yesterday, he responded poorly to pylon in the natural, so I built 1 more, early forge and 2 cannons







He was pissed


----------



## Anti!!

Yea there isnt much worse for a zerg player.. lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

I was playing horrible last night, lost a bunch of games, won 2. I just didn't feel like stopping, and Unranked keeps matching me vs Plat and Dia and that's not fun, so I play ranked.
For some reason I get matched vs Gold a lot lately, even though I lose almost every match.


----------



## ronnin426850

Can you imagine Sylvester Stallone playing Jim Raynor in a SC movie? I sure can







Arnie could be Tychus







Gerrard Butler could also pull off a nice Jim







Who is your Kerrigan?


----------



## ronnin426850

What is this Planetary Fortress + Missile turret + Raven insanity that Terrans have learned?! I saw that twice today. Lost first time, because it was so unexpected, didn't know what to do.. But the second time I reacted faster, kept killing his workers (sacrificing a lot of zealots in the process), took all the bases on my side of the map, made a lot of phoenixes, lost them to widow mines (







), made a lot of void rays, punched a hole in his turrets and got tempests in. Probably not the best or cleanest play, but I was scared after the first time


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What is this Planetary Fortress + Missile turret + Raven insanity that Terrans have learned?! I saw that twice today. Lost first time, because it was so unexpected, didn't know what to do.. But the second time I reacted faster, kept killing his workers (sacrificing a lot of zealots in the process), took all the bases on my side of the map, made a lot of phoenixes, lost them to widow mines (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), made a lot of void rays, punched a hole in his turrets and got tempests in. Probably not the best or cleanest play, but I was scared after the first time


That playstyle is pretty popular right now because the biggest SC2 streamer names his stream "Learn how to play sc2!" and just does that over and over rotating de-ranked smurf accounts to stomp on golds with his master-level mechanics. Four thousand viewers every day, no tournament results ever.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigpoppapump*
> 
> That playstyle is pretty popular right now because the biggest SC2 streamer names his stream "Learn how to play sc2!" and just does that over and over rotating de-ranked smurf accounts to stomp on golds with his master-level mechanics. Four thousand viewers every day, no tournament results ever.










And what is the most efficient way to shut this party down?


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what is the most efficient way to shut this party down?


Exactly what you did. Notice it early, take the entire map while they're turtling up, and just drown them in gas and minerals.


----------



## ronnin426850

Terrible lose streak last night, lost 10 games straight







I still managed to keep 3rd - 4th place in my division though, which is good


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Terrible lose streak last night, lost 10 games straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still managed to keep 3rd - 4th place in my division though, which is good


Man, that has got to be demoralizing. lol I would be so pissed by the third and fourth loss.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Man, that has got to be demoralizing. lol I would be so pissed by the third and fourth loss.


I just sing myself that awesome line from Motorhead: "Win some, lose some, it's all the same to me!"


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Terrible lose streak last night, lost 10 games straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still managed to keep 3rd - 4th place in my division though, which is good


dude 10 games ? i usually stop playing after my 4 or 5 lose in row.. and position is nothing, is all about mmr, i was top diamond for like 3 weeks with 1200 points this season and i drop my league to start over in diamond to see what happen, now my win streak is 7-0 facing only masters, i should be promoted soon


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> and position is nothing


Why would you seek to destroy what little consolation I have?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Why would you seek to destroy what little consolation I have?


You are an awesome top 5 gold ronnin. Plus you are having fun. That is more than can be said about the ones who rage after 3 losses. (ME)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You are an awesome top 5 gold ronnin. Plus you are having fun. That is more than can be said about the ones who rage after 3 losses. (ME)


That backfired, I'm Silver


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That backfired, I'm Silver


lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Has there been a redistribution of the leagues since last year? I was top gold with Terran and it was much easier. I'm reading something about league deflation caused by MMR decay, is this what's happening?


----------



## Talon720

I have to say some losses are worse than others. I main zerg and it pisses me off when i scout whats commin i have an idea when but then i just build units a little to late and im dead. I try to learn from my mistakes you always learn more from your losses than ypu do your wins. Im just a very up
And down player i know exactly what to do and play people who rank way better to be being beat by someone not as good its odd.
Had too add ive had issues microing vipers. I use grid hotkeys btw and i never hit the right button to grab units then miss my chance. Also the other thing that will lose me matches is if im pressured and have a ling bling army I hotkey them 2 and ill need more banelings so without thinking i hit x which just detonates all my banelings. Gotta remember to Crtl click the group tab area to seperate lings from banes when building more, or shift click the lings in my view but then not all the lings i want are there. Thats the worst stomach drop dissapointment you're about to crush and amry to oh no i just blew up everything of my own.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Talon720*
> 
> Gotta remember to Crtl click the group tab area to seperate lings from banes when building more


Can't you just hit Tab?


----------



## Talon720

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Can't you just hit Tab?


Yea probably could just do that too. Just not muscle memory yet to do it. Using tab can be hard for me in the heat of things if i control to much doing it that way. I suppose for the banling issue that would work the easiest. Thanks for the idea!


----------



## Yukss

accomplish of the month.....









that guy plays like hell.. i was lucky


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> accomplish of the month.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that guy plays like hell.. i was lucky




?!?!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 
> 
> ?!?!


LOL


----------



## Yukss

yeah i was thinking about it too, maybe is not the real one, but it was a top gm and beated him


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> yeah i was thinking about it too, maybe is not the real one, but it was a top gm and beated him


Replay! Replay! Replay! Replay!


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Replay! Replay! Replay! Replay!


sure, im gonna upload the replay and also one vs guitarchesse (i lost that one) but it was closed, and being a diamond im facing GMs, crazy.

ps. im working rigth on my shift time so when i get home i will post both replays...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> sure, im gonna upload the replay and also one vs guitarchesse (i lost that one) buy it was closed, and being a diamond im facing GMs, crazy.
> 
> ps. im working rigth on my shift time so when i get home i will post both replays...


----------



## Yukss

here the replays, one vs guitarchesse, kinda even match, and the one vs hitman, he was too agressive to take 3 bases fast.. please feel free to analize the game and see my weakness.. and thanks

replays.zip 122k .zip file


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukss*
> 
> here the replays, one vs guitarchesse, kinda even match, and the one vs hitman, he was too agressive to take 3 bases fast.. please feel free to analize the game and see my weakness.. and thanks
> 
> replays.zip 122k .zip file


Nice! I love Oracles...


----------



## Yukss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Nice! I love Oracles...


yeah vs roaches and spines... he was playing random..


----------



## BonitiilloO

Nice thread... subbed


----------



## ronnin426850

Welcome


----------



## ronnin426850

"Oh, I'm playing vs Terran, I wonder how he will open... I don't know, man, it could be reaper, but I just don't know!! Oh, the possibilities!"


----------



## BonitiilloO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> "Oh, I'm playing vs Terran, I wonder how he will open... I don't know, man, it could be reaper, but I just don't know!! Oh, the possibilities!"


what is your race? zerg? you can know if its reaper or not just by scouting his gas.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonitiilloO*
> 
> what is your race? zerg? you can know if its reaper or not just by scouting his gas.


That's not what I meant







It was a sarcastic comment implying that there is only 1 viable Terran opener since the Reaper buff, and that is... Reaper. Everybody does it all the time. It gets really boring







I mean, I automatically know T is going to open with a reaper, so I auto-prepare for it. And since the preparation for reaper (as P) is just a fast MC and Stalker, which you usually make anyway, it is just a pointless and boring game of "are you? you are. ok, then I will. -oh no you did. Ok, bye reaper".
Terran needs more openers.

And I play Protoss


----------



## BonitiilloO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That's not what I meant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a sarcastic comment implying that there is only 1 viable Terran opener since the Reaper buff, and that is... Reaper. Everybody does it all the time. It gets really boring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, I automatically know T is going to open with a reaper, so I auto-prepare for it. And since the preparation for reaper (as P) is just a fast MC and Stalker, which you usually make anyway, it is just a pointless and boring game of "are you? you are. ok, then I will. -oh no you did. Ok, bye reaper".
> Terran needs more openers.
> 
> And I play Protoss


well, thing is the best opening from terran is reaper build, since it allow you to scout any cheese/proxy/dts etc from Protoss.

then there is the 1/1/1 that is really not that easy to pull of vs a good Protoss.

i used to play protoss back on WOL reaching Master level, but after 2years being inactive i have returned as Terran


----------



## ronnin426850

Is there any way to make Attack-move units attack the SCVs repairing a Planetary instead of the Planetary itself? Other than manually targeting them, of course.


----------



## BonitiilloO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Is there any way to make Attack-move units attack the SCVs repairing a Planetary instead of the Planetary itself? Other than manually targeting them, of course.


no there is no other way to do that...

but you take a few units and attack shift... another group attack shift....


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonitiilloO*
> 
> no there is no other way to do that...
> 
> but you take a few units and attack shift... another group attack shift....


ah, yes, I hadn't thought of that! Thanks


----------



## BonitiilloO

BTW blizzard wants you to choose old school maps to be put on season 4








Quote:


> Ever wonder how Xel'Naga Caverns would play out in Heart of the Swarm? Did you discover an unbeatable strategy on Habitation Station only after it left the ladder? Wish you could get Cloud Kingdom back for one more season? Well then the upcoming ladder season is exactly what you're looking for.
> 
> In Season 4 we're going to open up the opportunity for past 1v1 maps to return, and also let YOU decide which maps those will be!
> 
> The Map Pool of Your Dreams


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/15864607


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonitiilloO*
> 
> BTW blizzard wants you to choose old school maps to be put on season 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/15864607


Yes I am really excited about this. I miss the old maps.


----------



## BonitiilloO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yes I am really excited about this. I miss the old maps.


Those old mas are gonna brake the current meta game haha


----------



## ronnin426850

nvm


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, guys, I think I'm doing rather well lately, what would you say?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, guys, I think I'm doing rather well lately, what would you say?


Looks like it!

Also, I just found this link while piddling around. This is for those who always ask for good sources for tips/tutorials/and material to help improve with. Can it be added to the OP?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9882048889
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonitiilloO*
> 
> Those old mas are gonna brake the current meta game haha


I agree, however a little change of pace would be nice. I know serious ladderers don't want their meta screwed with, but for the casual players it introduces fun. Sometimes not caring and having fun brings back the true essence of Starcraft in general.


----------



## DoomDash

Time to put D3 on the back burner again.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Time to put D3 on the back burner again.


I am surprised you haven't gotten super bored with D3 yet.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I am surprised you haven't gotten super bored with D3 yet.


What keeps me playing D3 is the fact they add huge content updates that basically change the game in huge ways, as well as our oc.net clan being extremely active.


----------



## Sugi

Where do I vote for "Steps of War" for the season 4? XDDD


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sugi*
> 
> Where do I vote for "Steps of War" for the season 4? XDDD


Follow that link and it will provide the link to the suggestion page of the forum. Voting isn't open yet, only suggestions for now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What keeps me playing D3 is the fact they add huge content updates that basically change the game in huge ways, as well as our oc.net clan being extremely active.


It is a shame the sc2 clan was not ever active..


----------



## SirWaWa

so what's this new starcraft 2 patch coming about?
features/content/fixes?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> so what's this new starcraft 2 patch coming about?
> features/content/fixes?


Mostly stirring up discussions and breaking whatever strategies work.


----------



## DoomDash

What patch?


----------



## Sugi

Yea, what patch? And I was only kidding about Steps of War. I am glad that era of unrecoverable rushes are over with.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sugi*
> 
> Yea, what patch? And I was only kidding about Steps of War. I am glad that era of unrecoverable rushes are over with.


LOL! The only map where Overloard creep highway hydras was viable. lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What patch?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sugi*
> 
> Yea, what patch?


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/15980426/starcraft-ii-214-patch-notes-24-09-2014


----------



## DoomDash

So I've been playing almost 100% D3 as some of you know, but I try to play at least one game every weekish or so to keep my MMR from decaying. Tonight I played fantastic. I wish I knew why some days I play infinitely better than others, so I could try and mimic that success.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So I've been playing almost 100% D3 as some of you know, but I try to play at least one game every weekish or so to keep my MMR from decaying. Tonight I played fantastic. I wish I knew why some days I play infinitely better than others, so I could try and mimic that success.


Same here. Remember that 10 game loss streak? I'm on a 15 game win now, back to back.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Follow that link and it will provide the link to the suggestion page of the forum. Voting isn't open yet, only suggestions for now.
> It is a shame the sc2 clan was not ever active..


Needs Legacy of the Void... starting to feel like we will get Half-Life 3 first.


----------



## ronnin426850

What is the secret to PvP?


----------



## SirWaWa

why is the attack icon gone since HoTS? am I forced to use right-click or hot keys (a)?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> why is the attack icon gone since HoTS? am I forced to use right-click or hot keys (a)?


You can change that in Gameplay Settings


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You can change that in Gameplay Settings


what is the option called?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> what is the option called?


"Enable Simple Command Card". Uncheck it.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> "Enable Simple Command Card". Uncheck it.


thanks
why is blizzard adding console like options for a non-console ga... wait...


----------



## Jaydev16

Hey, anyone know how much GB of download the starter edition is?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Hey, anyone know how much GB of download the starter edition is?


I think it gets to "Playable" after 3 or so Gb, but it keeps streaming data in the background until it downloads the full game ~10Gb. The Web Installer for the Starter Edition is 3 Mb.


----------



## Jaydev16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I think it gets to "Playable" after 3 or so Gb, but it keeps streaming data in the background until it downloads the full game ~10Gb. The Web Installer for the Starter Edition is 3 Mb.


Thanks! You can pause in between?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> Thanks! You can pause in between?


Yep


----------



## Jaydev16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yep


Thanks!


----------



## SkipP

I suck at video games, and I made silver. Laugh all you want, but I just started the whole gaming thing as an adult in 2012, and I only got into Starcraft II multiplayer this year. I love it, but I suck. I suck less in this game than any other, but I really enjoy it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I suck at video games, and I made silver. Laugh all you want, but I just started the whole gaming thing as an adult in 2012, and I only got into Starcraft II multiplayer this year. I love it, but I suck. I suck less in this game than any other, but I really enjoy it.


Dude keep at it, just playing pretty regularly and learning will get you in pretty high leagues. We got an entire expansion more to come out, so no rush.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I suck at video games, and I made silver. Laugh all you want, but I just started the whole gaming thing as an adult in 2012, and I only got into Starcraft II multiplayer this year. I love it, but I suck. I suck less in this game than any other, but I really enjoy it.


Silver is quite good! Silver is last year's gold, in fact







Of course there is a huge skill gap between top and bottom silver, but it is the place to be, mate, you will learn a lot
















What other games did you try?


----------



## SkipP

I like Diablo III, Dishonored, Civilization 5, Saints Row III & IV, and I enjoyed Bioshock Infinite until I finished it and all the DLC. I am really looking forward to Dishonored II. The next StarCraft expansion is the first on my list. I loved the HOTS campaign. I enjoy the story line of Starcraft.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know if SC2 really did it for me story wise, however they knocked it out of the park with fun missions in the campaign. Plenty of things to do as far as achievements too.


----------



## ronnin426850

For me, the story of SC2 and the way it is presented is matched only by MassEffect









SkipP - I highly recommend MassEffect, but I suggest you skip ME1 and go straight for ME2 and 3, because 1, however awesome it is, is a bit more hardcore old-school RPG with a lot of customization, leveling, etc, not that much action, and can be confusing for a beginner. Not to mention the aging graphics. 2 and 3 are much more streamlined, and much more cinematic and enjoyable in my opinion







Also, they way the game is built, you are not at a serious disadvantage if you skip a part


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> For me, the story of SC2 and the way it is presented is matched only by MassEffect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SkipP - I highly recommend MassEffect, but I suggest you skip ME1 and go straight for ME2 and 3, because 1, however awesome it is, is a bit more hardcore old-school RPG with a lot of customization, leveling, etc, not that much action, and can be confusing for a beginner. Not to mention the aging graphics. 2 and 3 are much more streamlined, and much more cinematic and enjoyable in my opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, they way the game is built, you are not at a serious disadvantage if you skip a part


BLASPHEMER YOU CANT HAVE MASS EFFECT WITHOUT ME1

LIARA FOREVER that being said, Also try dues ex HR


----------



## SkipP

I LOVED Mass Effect 3. I have been meaning to try the earlier games, but I tend to get put off by bad graphics.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I LOVED Mass Effect 3. I have been meaning to try the earlier games, but I tend to get put off by bad graphics.


Me1 and Me2 have aged quite gracefully, And they explain everything.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> BLASPHEMER YOU CANT HAVE MASS EFFECT WITHOUT ME1
> 
> LIARA FOREVER that being said, Also try dues ex HR


I did say ME1 is awesome, but you are insane and delirious if you recommend it to a person who only recently started playing games









+1000 about Liara and Deus Ex HR


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I did say ME1 is awesome, but you are insane and delirious if you recommend it to a person who only recently started playing games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1000 about Liara and Deus Ex HR


Honestly, Most of the customization can be just ignored


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> Honestly, Most of the customization can be just ignored


Maybe, still I think it is not that appealing to people who have no experience with that type of games, compared to ME2 and 3, which are appealing even to my wife, who last played Super Mario 20 years ago and hasn't touched a game since


----------



## DoomDash

Can't spell meh without ME.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Can't spell meh without ME.


can't spell scientology without SC


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> can't spell scientology without SC


Can't have rocket science without SC either.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Can't have rocket science without SC either.


Or duck science for that matter. You know there have been amazing advancements in our understanding of ducks lately! It's blowing my mind.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Maybe, still I think it is not that appealing to people who have no experience with that type of games, compared to ME2 and 3, which are appealing even to my wife, who last played Super Mario 20 years ago and hasn't touched a game since


Yeah but so much changes in Me2 and 3 because of actions in 1


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Or duck science for that matter. You know there have been amazing advancements in our understanding of ducks lately! It's blowing my mind.


Yeah, I thought it was crazy that ducks have outrageously long penises, because duck rape is so common that ducks have mock vaginal canals, so when they are being raped, they can direct the duck penis into a false vagina "dead end" that prevents them from getting pregnant, while the good, reliable duck partner gets the real vagina. Also, the male ducks have all these crazy penis extension-type things.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bjorn-comic.com%2Fpenis%2Fduck_****.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdave-littler.livejournal.com%2F79256.html&h=268&w=500&tbnid=8IUkcuOs5A_SVM%3A&zoom=1&docid=Kb4QqkzbAd11EM&ei=xOMwVJnZEdOeyATmnoK4DA&tbm=isch&ved=0CCwQMygCMAI&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=285&page=1&start=0&ndsp=16
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-scientist.com%2FJuly2014%2Fpg30_crop1.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-scientist.com%2F%3Farticles.view%2FarticleNo%2F40321%2Ftitle%2FThe-Hidden-Side-of-Sex%2F&h=218&w=310&tbnid=5h01E6WWw5u0AM%3A&zoom=1&docid=oJt1sl_oE9SYFM&ei=FuQwVJenEYWcyATykoLQCg&tbm=isch&ved=0CAkQMygBMAE4ZA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=164&page=5&start=81&ndsp=21

And just for fun:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.treehugger.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2F2011%2F10%2Fdog_on_a_duck.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treehugger.com%2Fnatural-sciences%2Ffemale-ducks-evolving-to-avoid-endowed-males.html&h=318&w=468&tbnid=lpq1nYlbgxYoSM%3A&zoom=1&docid=Dm4rvwzzTnFmUM&ei=xOMwVJnZEdOeyATmnoK4DA&tbm=isch&ved=0CC0QMygDMAM&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=113&page=1&start=0&ndsp=16


----------



## Feladis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> Yeah, I thought it was crazy that ducks have outrageously long penises, because duck rape is so common that ducks have mock vaginal canals, so when they are being raped, they can direct the duck penis into a false vagina "dead end" that prevents them from getting pregnant, while the good, reliable duck partner gets the real vagina. Also, the male ducks have all these crazy penis extension-type things.


Ducks are basically zergs


----------



## Anti!!




----------



## DoomDash

Too much D3 leads to terrible terrible damage to skills. I will say that I threw away most these games trying to cheese, but still when I did play normal I felt extremely terrible mechanically. So much for masters, I'll be luck to stay in Diamond.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches

Also, my god there are so many Terrans in Diamond.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Too much D3 leads to terrible terrible damage to skills. I will say that I threw away most these games trying to cheese, but still when I did play normal I felt extremely terrible mechanically. So much for masters, I'll be luck to stay in Diamond.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches
> 
> Also, my god there are so many Terrans in Diamond.


There is a metric sheetload of Terrans in Silver as well. Also, I share your conclusions about D3







I used to play it a lot, but I decided to wait for the SC season to end before I resume D3







I'm planning on trying Zerg next season, definitely not to switch over, but just to get a better understanding of how Z works.


----------



## Anti!!

The Wife was out of town last night and I have my spare gamin rig setup at work so I played a few unranked 1v1s last night as Random. It was fun to just play and not care. I just kept thinkin bronze league heroes the whole time. I always want to play when I watch those replays because you see the original reason why SC can be fun. Just play and forget if you lose or not. If a loss burns start another game as fast as possible or take a break. It goes away really quickly. Usually the most negative thing that can happen is being scared of losing and focusing on losses to much. Even beating yourself up because you knew you could have won that game is pointless unless you are going to be a professional making a living playing games.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The Wife was out of town last night and I have my spare gamin rig setup at work so I played a few unranked 1v1s last night as Random. It was fun to just play and not care. I just kept thinkin bronze league heroes the whole time. I always want to play when I watch those replays because you see the original reason why SC can be fun. Just play and forget if you lose or not. If a loss burns start another game as fast as possible or take a break. It goes away really quickly. Usually the most negative thing that can happen is being scared of losing and focusing on losses to much. Even beating yourself up because you knew you could have won that game is pointless unless you are going to be a professional making a living playing games.


True, true. I envy you because you can play Unranked. It always matches me with Platinum or better players, so playing Unranked is loss for me every time. That's why I play ranked 2v2 to take a break from 1v1. I have made my mind that I don't care about the 2v2 ladder, so it's almost like Unranked









I also have my chat disabled via Parenting Controls. It helps A LOT knowing that never again someone will yell curse words at you before you were able to block them.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> True, true. I envy you because you can play Unranked. It always matches me with Platinum or better players, so playing Unranked is loss for me every time. That's why I play ranked 2v2 to take a break from 1v1. I have made my mind that I don't care about the 2v2 ladder, so it's almost like Unranked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also have my chat disabled via Parenting Controls. It helps A LOT knowing that never again someone will yell curse words at you before you were able to block them.


Yea. One way to stop that is join a bunch of games and leave them in 1v1 unranked. It lowers the people you play.

Wife was still out of town tonight and I had nothing to do so here is a replay of my last game tonight. Doom will be happy to see some respect has been payed to the terran race. I suck though. VIEWERS BEWARE> lol

http://drop.sc/387183


----------



## Anti!!

So, my replay was a thread killer.. lol


----------



## SkipP

Does anyone have the Starcraft-themed keyboard? I just bought one for cheap on ebay. I could never get a mechanical keyboard to work on my machine, so I have been using a cheap keyboard forever (although did have a nice mechanical keyboard at my last job). I am looking forward to this thing, but I wonder if anyone had some experience with it.


----------



## BarceloY911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> Does anyone have the Starcraft-themed keyboard? I just bought one for cheap on ebay. I could never get a mechanical keyboard to work on my machine, so I have been using a cheap keyboard forever (although did have a nice mechanical keyboard at my last job). I am looking forward to this thing, but I wonder if anyone had some experience with it.


can you post a picture so we can see it


----------



## BreakDown

Anyone here has just started playing starcraft by any chance?

I recently bought the game (im terrible at it) and im looking for a new player to play 1va1 unranked or co-op against ai or somthing along those lines.

Also: anyone has one good and easy build for protoss? im still doing babysteps.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BreakDown*
> 
> Anyone here has just started playing starcraft by any chance?
> 
> I recently bought the game (im terrible at it) and im looking for a new player to play 1va1 unranked or co-op against ai or somthing along those lines.
> 
> Also: anyone has one good and easy build for protoss? im still doing babysteps.


I'm silver protoss from EU, I'd be happy to play with you and teach you a thing or two


----------



## BreakDown

My battle.net username is BreakDown, im also form EU, Spain, so i guess we should not have lag.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BreakDown*
> 
> My battle.net username is BreakDown, im also form EU, Spain, so i guess we should not have lag.


I need your battle tag formatted like this in order to add you:


Mine is *Ronnin426850:2161*, add me


----------



## BreakDown

Ive sent a friend request, but just in case, here is my nametag: *BreakDown#2422*


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BreakDown*
> 
> Ive sent a friend request, but just in case, here is my nametag: *BreakDown#2422*


My account is currently muted and can't add or be added as friend. It is a technical issue, not me being reported for inappropriate behavior







I've contacted tech support, as soon as the issue is resolved, I'll add you







Have fun playing!


----------



## espn

When can they fix the battle.net icon issue? It is still an unknown program iron i task bar after I run it, and basically theu said no fix yet in all online qiestion about this.


----------



## DoomDash

Still waiting on Steps being announced







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> When can they fix the battle.net icon issue? It is still an unknown program iron i task bar after I run it, and basically theu said no fix yet in all online qiestion about this.


What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Still waiting on Steps being announced
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


What?


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What?
> What?


It is this problem and happen in windows 7 of mine as well:

http://us.battle.net/en/forum/topic/11676427585

You can google and find many similar post. The temporary solution told by staff doesnt work.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> It is this problem and happen in windows 7 of mine as well:
> 
> http://us.battle.net/en/forum/topic/11676427585
> 
> You can google and find many similar post. The temporary solution told by staff doesnt work.


LOL! Are you using Google translate?


----------



## espn

2014 WCS Season 3 Brackets
http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/brackets
Every single one is Korean? LOL why Riot doesn't allow this happen in LCS of LOL
haha


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> 2014 WCS Season 3 Brackets
> http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/brackets
> Every single one is Korean? LOL why Riot doesn't allow this happen in LCS of LOL
> haha


Anti-competitive practices, someone sic the FTC on them.

I'm sad ForGG didn't make it in but it looks like a hell of a tournament.


----------



## DIYDeath

Been trying to get back into sc2, the insane amount of griefers in this game make anything but 1v1 ladder nearly impossible.
I'm tempted to uninstall again since Blizzard wont provide us with a banlist tool to keep griefers out of our games (not for 1v1, kinda hard to grief in 1v1 unless you're a salty terran who floats buildings into the corners of the map when they've lost).

The fact that there's a disproportionate amount of griefing in non 1v1 games says a lot about the community imo, sc2 is a hair better than the LoL community...thats a huge issue which blizzard never attempts to fix.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I've only 1/2 finished HoTS ages ago. I'd like to start a new game but the 1st level is deterring me from doing so, thats not much reason but oh well


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Been trying to get back into sc2, the insane amount of griefers in this game make anything but 1v1 ladder nearly impossible.
> I'm tempted to uninstall again since Blizzard wont provide us with a banlist tool to keep griefers out of our games (not for 1v1, kinda hard to grief in 1v1 unless you're a salty terran who floats buildings into the corners of the map when they've lost).
> 
> The fact that there's a disproportionate amount of griefing in non 1v1 games says a lot about the community imo, sc2 is a hair better than the LoL community...thats a huge issue which blizzard never attempts to fix.


It's not that bad from my experience.

Anyway, sad steps didn't make it in for next season







.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15006381320#1


----------



## SkipP

hey guys, I finally made silver, then moved up to #1 silver, then I have been getting this error where my mouse cursor gets stuck on the bottom of the screen. I cannot play, and I cannot fix this. My display of characters is 100%. Does anyone have any ideas? I really want to play.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> hey guys, I finally made silver, then moved up to #1 silver, then I have been getting this error where my mouse cursor gets stuck on the bottom of the screen. I cannot play, and I cannot fix this. My display of characters is 100%. Does anyone have any ideas? I really want to play.


This happens to me when I have a dust particle or hair stuck in my mouse's optical sense, clean it up, it may fix your issue


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> This happens to me when I have a dust particle or hair stuck in my mouse's optical sense, clean it up, it may fix your issue


I know it is not this because i have changed out the mouse. The cursor gets stuck on the bottum ande will not move in program. it is fine outside of Starcraft. This also has nothing to do with the character scaling. mine has always been set to 100%.


----------



## Cybertox

I hope that during the upcoming Blizzcon the final expansion for SCII gets announced, looking forward to see some gameplay and new enhancements, however I look forward to play the Protoss campaign the most.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I hope that during the upcoming Blizzcon the final expansion for SCII gets announced, looking forward to see some gameplay and new enhancements, however I look forward to play the Protoss campaign the most.


I don't think that will happen yet since the whole company in general is at very bad status comparing to Riot or EA. SC2 final expansion is like the only weapon left and they may want to save it for later.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> I don't think that will happen yet since the whole company in general is at very bad status comparing to Riot or EA. SC2 final expansion is like the only weapon left and they may want to save it for later.


I dont really understand why you think that Blizzard is in a very bad status. In my opinion Blizzard is doing great so far. It is possible though that the expansion will get announced next year.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I dont really understand why you think that Blizzard is in a very bad status. In my opinion Blizzard is doing great so far. It is possible though that the expansion will get announced next year.


It is definitely much more people play LOL or Dota 2 comparing to all Blizzard games combine together, and LOL Dota 2 winning amount of money is so extremely more than any games before, so that make Blizzard in a very bad position for future competition.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I dont really understand why you think that Blizzard is in a very bad status. In my opinion Blizzard is doing great so far. It is possible though that the expansion will get announced next year.


Just look at how many people watching twitch, you get the idea.
http://www.twitch.tv/


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Just look at how many people watching twitch, you get the idea.
> http://www.twitch.tv/


WOW still brings in a huge and constant amount of money to Blizzard. Estimating a games company performance solely by looking at Twitch is just stupid.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> WOW still brings in a huge and constant amount of money to Blizzard. Estimating a games company performance solely by looking at Twitch is just stupid.


almost no one plays WOW nowadays now, I don't think anyone except you would disagree.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> almost no one plays WOW nowadays now, I don't think anyone except you would disagree.














7.5 million people are playing WOW. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.5 million people are playing WOW. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


still pretty behind of LOL


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> still pretty behind of LOL


Hearthstone is also a game developed by Blizzard. 728 + 114 = 842 Millions in revenue YTD. Plus take other games into account, Diablo 3, StarCraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. Blizzard is doing very well, you cant deny that.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.5 million people are playing WOW. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Hearthstone is also a game developed by Blizzard. 728 + 114 = 842 Millions in revenue YTD. Plus take other games into account, Diablo 3, StarCraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. Blizzard is doing very well, you cant deny that.


SC2 is not in this list.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> SC2 is not in this list.












Of course it isnt. Its not an MMO.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> SC2 is not in this list.


Blizzard messed up HotS and the correct way to market SC2 to get casuals interested, but at the end of the day I'm happy with my niche game. It may not have the popularity of LoL or DOTA but it's still a far better game for those willing to put in the time.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> It is definitely much more people play LOL or Dota 2 comparing to all Blizzard games combine together, and LOL Dota 2 winning amount of money is so extremely more than any games before, so that make Blizzard in a very bad position for future competition.


Heroes of the Storm alone has over triple DOTA2's peak player count and that's comparing DOTA2's all time max vs Heroes of the Storm 8AM EST today (which probably won't even be the peak for today, let alone all time). LoL may still beat it, but does not have invite-only access.

I can't stand WoW, but if we lowball the count it still has ~6.5M monthly paying subscribers which alone makes nearly as much as LoL, and laughs till it hurts at DOTA2's income. Sure, prize pools may be bigger for these guys but Blizzard could easily put them to shame if they wanted to.

-Starcraft needs Legacy of the Void, it's in rough shape right now because it's an incomplete game. Why bother mastering Heart of the Swarm when you'll have to start almost all over again learning multiplayer units/gameplay in Legacy of the Void.

-They better not mess up Heroes of the Storm + they need to support the e-sports scene that will at least try to develop around it.

(My post has nothing to do with which are the better games by the way -> DOTA2 is far more complex than Heroes of the Storm at the moment + it has Dagon







)



Spoiler: Dagon


----------



## espn

isnt crossfire a shooting game? D fighter online is street figher kind of game how can it be mmo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it isnt. Its not an MMO.


----------



## espn

Sc2 is 1vs to 4vs4 then not mmos? I dont know how many players do we nees in a game to be in mmos catagary
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it isnt. Its not an MMO.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Sc2 is 1vs to 4vs4 then not mmos? I dont know how many players do we nees in a game to be in mmos catagary


DOTA and such are considered MOBA - Multiplayer Online Battle Arena games, not MMO. They are only included in that list because they are, by a divine accident, a direct competitor of MMO games.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Sc2 is 1vs to 4vs4 then not mmos? I dont know how many players do we nees in a game to be in mmos catagary


MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online (Game), StarCraft 2 is an RTS. I suggest you to stop here before you embarrass yourself even more.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online (Game), StarCraft 2 is an RTS. I suggest you to stop here before you embarrass yourself even more.


Normally that is true, but normally Crossfire is not mmo and Dungeon Figher online is not mmo too.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Normally that is true, but normally Crossfire is not mmo and Dungeon Figher online is not mmo too.


You just dont understand the concept of MMOs. Lets move on. Blizzard is doing fantastically well, topic closed.

Lets discuss the yet to be announced Legacy Of The Void expansion.


----------



## espn

There is no way saying a stret figher style game is mmo. If they consider that street figher game is mmo, then sc2 should be considered in the list too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You just dont understand the concept of MMOs. Lets move on. Blizzard is doing fantastically well, topic closed.
> 
> Lets discuss the yet to be announced Legacy Of The Void expansion.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online (Game), StarCraft 2 is an RTS. I suggest you to stop here before you embarrass yourself even more.


----------



## SkipP

They even bought themselves out from their corporate parent. This only happens when managers can convince bankers to lend them the money on a sure thing (think Neuberger Berman buying themselves from Lehman Brothers). I am not in the gaming industry, but no organization can buy themselves out from a corporate parent without impressive, demonstrable cash flow.


----------



## Anti!!

Forgive me for not knowing this but is the corporate parent activision? If so there may be hope yet!


----------



## DIYDeath

I'm hoping in LotV they give some new toys to every race.

---
I hope zerg get a hydra evolution that essentially turn it into a slow moving artillery unit, needs to burrow, fires a large AoE attack with a target marker on the ground indicating where it will strike. High supply cost as to prevent massing large range AoE attack spam.

I also hope Corrupters get an upgrade which allows them to shoot down (the lack of air versatility is what makes zerg air suck), Burrow Charge added back to the Ultralisk and a mutalisk upgrade/new evolution which causes enemies attacked by them to lose X armor per Y consecutive attacks (including bounces).
---
---
I hope Battlecruisers get an upgrade (battleship would land and build into a new battlecruiser-type on the ground) which allows them to use all terran upgrades (for a maximum of +6 armor and +6 attack) and gives various stat boosts while costing more supply.

I hope the Science Vessel (or something similar to repair mech in battle) returns.
---
---
I hope Protoss get a Twilight Archon which has 3 abilities, twilight archons require a HT and a DT and last for X seconds before being destroyed.

1) Psionic Implosion. Sucks enemies within X AoE towards the targeted ground over Y seconds. Deals Z damage.

2) Psionic Explosion. Pushes enemies within X AoE towards the targeted ground over Y seconds. Deals Z damage.

3) Sacrifice. When the Twilight Archon is destroyed damage is dealt to all enemies equal to half of this unit's remaining energy within X AoE.

I also hope the Twilight Archon is a detector.

I hope Dark Templar gain the blink ability (after upgrade) and a phase shift ability which allows them to evade incoming attacks X% of the time.

I hope Protoss gain an upgrade that allows them to relocate their buildings that require pylon power to another pylon power grid (including warp prisms). Time to warp scales with building maximum health (min 3 seconds, max 6 seconds) and requires a fleet beacon (to prevent overpowered rushing before the late game).
---

The idea behind my hopes is to fix the things that are primarily wrong with each race.

Zerg has niche air units galore, it's not that they aren't powerful, it's that they are freaking useless once they've accomplished their goal.

Terran has a problem going Bio every.single.game because mech comparatively sucks. The reason why is the medivac. Terran also need a real late game powerhouse unit, something that isn't massable but packs enough of a punch to warrant getting a few of them.

Protoss have problems with being telegraphed due to bad tech trees. They need gateway, robo and stargate to all be viable and fully functional. They also need more abilities to micro with but do nothing to increase the deathball strength directly.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm hoping in LotV they give some new toys to every race.
> 
> ---
> I hope zerg get a hydra evolution that essentially turn it into a slow moving artillery unit, needs to burrow, fires a large AoE attack with a target marker on the ground indicating where it will strike. High supply cost as to prevent massing large range AoE attack spam.
> 
> I also hope Corrupters get an upgrade which allows them to shoot down (the lack of air versatility is what makes zerg air suck), Burrow Charge added back to the Ultralisk and a mutalisk upgrade/new evolution which causes enemies attacked by them to lose X armor per Y consecutive attacks (including bounces).
> ---
> ---
> I hope Battlecruisers get an upgrade (battleship would land and build into a new battlecruiser-type on the ground) which allows them to use all terran upgrades (for a maximum of +6 armor and +6 attack) and gives various stat boosts while costing more supply.
> 
> I hope the Science Vessel (or something similar to repair mech in battle) returns.
> ---
> ---
> I hope Protoss get a Twilight Archon which has 3 abilities, twilight archons require a HT and a DT and last for X seconds before being destroyed.
> 
> 1) Psionic Implosion. Sucks enemies within X AoE towards the targeted ground over Y seconds. Deals Z damage.
> 
> 2) Psionic Explosion. Pushes enemies within X AoE towards the targeted ground over Y seconds. Deals Z damage.
> 
> 3) Sacrifice. When the Twilight Archon is destroyed damage is dealt to all enemies equal to half of this unit's remaining energy within X AoE.
> 
> I also hope the Twilight Archon is a detector.
> 
> I hope Dark Templar gain the blink ability (after upgrade) and a phase shift ability which allows them to evade incoming attacks X% of the time.
> 
> I hope Protoss gain an upgrade that allows them to relocate their buildings that require pylon power to another pylon power grid (including warp prisms). Time to warp scales with building maximum health (min 3 seconds, max 6 seconds) and requires a fleet beacon (to prevent overpowered rushing before the late game).
> ---
> 
> The idea behind my hopes is to fix the things that are primarily wrong with each race.
> 
> Zerg has niche air units galore, it's not that they aren't powerful, it's that they are freaking useless once they've accomplished their goal.
> 
> Terran has a problem going Bio every.single.game because mech comparatively sucks. The reason why is the medivac. Terran also need a real late game powerhouse unit, something that isn't massable but packs enough of a punch to warrant getting a few of them.
> 
> Protoss have problems with being telegraphed due to bad tech trees. They need gateway, robo and stargate to all be viable and fully functional. They also need more abilities to micro with but do nothing to increase the deathball strength directly.


The units that you have proposed are all very over powered and would not fit well into the game as they would make it unbalanced.

What I would like to see is an outstanding campaign revealing most of the secrets of the Starcraft universe and the Protoss race. I also want more enhanced graphics as well as performance. Hopefully they will finally add new units skins as well, cause those are fun and the most significant and visually representing reward. In terms of multiplayer and balance I just hope that the expansion will add some fun units which contribute to an overall better balance of the game.


----------



## DoomDash

My only LotV wishes:

- Remove swarm host, replace w/ lurker
- Remove Colossus and Oracle, replace with reaver.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> My only LotV wishes:
> 
> - Remove swarm host, replace w/ lurker
> - Remove Colossus and Oracle, replace with reaver.


A.K.A. play Broodwar. hahahaha

You basically want a SC:BW with sc2 graphics.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> A.K.A. play Broodwar. hahahaha
> 
> You basically want a SC:BW with sc2 graphics.


There is a mod for that.

SC2 should be SC2.

My wish:
Make new units that acutally make even a little bit of sense in the game lore.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> There is a mod for that.
> 
> SC2 should be SC2.
> 
> My wish:
> Make new units that acutally make even a little bit of sense in the game lore.


That is what I want. I was only speaking to Doom's view.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> That is what I want. I was only speaking to Doom's view.


I know







It was more of a statement than a reply directed at you


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> A.K.A. play Broodwar. hahahaha
> 
> You basically want a SC:BW with sc2 graphics.


No, I just want the easy to use or boring units removed and replaced with high skill cap units. Protoss still has such a low skill cap compared to the other races they need a unit like the Reaver.

I'd also like to see mines redesigned, I don't like how random they make the game. I also think TvZ was at its best for playing and watching when it was marine tank.


----------



## ronnin426850

Let me just say this one thing:

EMP mine.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, I just want the easy to use or boring units removed and replaced with high skill cap units. Protoss still has such a low skill cap compared to the other races they need a unit like the Reaver.
> 
> I'd also like to see mines redesigned, I don't like how random they make the game. I also think TvZ was at its best for playing and watching when it was marine tank.


Yea, Tank/Marine was sooo much fun back in the day. Most of my friends were Terran an we played tvz all of the time. Some of the best replays came from that. I remember when I finally got the transition from Muta to broodlords down at 17 -18 minutes. That was a tough learning curve for all my terran buddies.


----------



## DoomDash

I have a feeling David Kim / Blizzard don't get what they are doing and they will just make more random stuff like they did with HotS.

Like their solution to lack of micro harass units for protoss was the oracle? Really? A unit that goes 100 mph and takes almost no skill. Terran doesn't even have a single unit that can catch up to it. No risk reward for Protoss anymore.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The units that you have proposed are all very over powered and would not fit well into the game as they would make it unbalanced.


I didnt even list numbers, everything was left as a variable to avoid silly quips about balance. -.-


----------



## DoomDash

About SC2 and the future / LotV from the Koreans:


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> About SC2 and the future / LotV from the Koreans:


This is kind of like saying "Canadians are too good at hockey so we're going to separate everybody into divisions because we need to nerf Canadians". Just replace hockey with sc2 pro league and Canadians with Koreans and thats the tl;dr of the video.

Pretty bad idea. I think they need to evaluate their design decisions and add partial functionality through a upgrade/evolution barrier for units with a singular purpose which renders them useless once their task has been completed (such as purely anti-air units - does not include phoenix as it follows the design principal) to do away with niche roles, supply a good campaign.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> This is kind of like saying "Canadians are too good at hockey so we're going to separate everybody into divisions because we need to nerf Canadians". Just replace hockey with sc2 pro league and Canadians with Koreans and thats the tl;dr of the video.
> 
> Pretty bad idea. I think they need to evaluate their design decisions and add partial functionality through a upgrade/evolution barrier for units with a singular purpose which renders them useless once their task has been completed (such as purely anti-air units - does not include phoenix as it follows the design principal) to do away with niche roles, supply a good campaign.


They do mention in the video that everything they discussed is small change compared to improving the game itself. But I do agree with a division lock of some sort, it's more like the NBA and the USA Olympics Basketball team for comparisons IMO.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> They do mention in the video that everything they discussed is small change compared to improving the game itself. But I do agree with a division lock of some sort, it's more like the NBA and the USA Olympics Basketball team for comparisons IMO.


I didn't watch the video, but replace the basketball stuff here with starcraft - Olympics basketball team members should be allowed in the NBA if they qualify/are good enough/meet the requirements. Having an NBA player/team stomp all over the olympics may be more unfair and worth considering if it should be allowed, but allowing it would raise the standard of play (as well as NBA guys taking Olympic gold for probably the next few Olympics







).


----------



## DIYDeath

Im pretty sure you guys know how fallacious that argument is. Dumbing down the game because the pro scene is being dominated by better players is stupid.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Im pretty sure you guys know how fallacious that argument is. Dumbing down the game because the pro scene is being dominated by better players is stupid.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I didn't watch the video, but replace the basketball stuff here with starcraft - Olympics basketball team members should be allowed in the NBA if they qualify/are good enough/meet the requirements. Having an NBA player/team stomp all over the olympics may be more unfair and worth considering if it should be allowed, but allowing it would raise the standard of play (as well as NBA guys taking Olympic gold for probably the next few Olympics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


The thing about that is they've already tried the non-locked method, and NA/EU players can get discouraged when they cant even qualify because of the best koreans. I understand your guys arguments, they make sense, but it would be nice to see the "true NA king" face off against the "true EU king" vs the "true korean king" as well.

Either way I don't see foreigners beating koreans unless they train like koreans, probably in Korea.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The thing about that is they've already tried the non-locked method, and NA/EU players can get discouraged when they cant even qualify because of the best koreans. I understand your guys arguments, they make sense, but it would be nice to see the "true NA king" face off against the "true EU king" vs the "true korean king" as well.
> 
> Either way I don't see foreigners beating koreans unless they train like koreans, probably in Korea.


Then NA/EU players need to get better or they need to get craftier, if they cant keep up on a technical level they need to get creative with strategies and keep the superior opponent off-balance.

I don't really believe in catering to the weakest link in a competitive scene.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Then NA/EU players need to get better or they need to get craftier, if they cant keep up on a technical level they need to get creative with strategies and keep the superior opponent off-balance.
> 
> I don't really believe in catering to the weakest link in a competitive scene.


+1. For reference - Snute.


----------



## Cybertox

The most entertaining players are either retired or dont play anymore as good as they used to. IMMVP, NesTea, WhiteRa, Boxer etc.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The most entertaining players are either retired or dont play anymore as good as they used to. IMMVP, NesTea, WhiteRa, Boxer etc.


Stephano, Lucifron...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Stephano, Lucifron...


While I agree catering to the weak players is not smart you can't argue that the proof isn't there. Koreans are competing on soil that they are not citizens of and stomping the "foreigners" who then seem to have given up. I think a region lock is fine. It is like the NFL. You got the NFC and AFC. Then each of those have the north, south, east, and west. Some of those divisions are weaker than others, but that doesn't stop the best of each division making it further. Then eventually the best two making it to the super bowl.

Now, in the case of WCS we have at best 4 regional divisions possible. America, Korea, Europe, and China. These divisions could be divided a little more just like the AFC and NFC is in NFL. Then the best from every division goes to a play off at blizzcon. If you wan't to play in the America division I believe you should at least be a resident and intend to live there for that season.

Just a thought or two.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Then NA/EU players need to get better or they need to get craftier, if they cant keep up on a technical level they need to get creative with strategies and keep the superior opponent off-balance.
> 
> I don't really believe in catering to the weakest link in a competitive scene.


I don't look at it like that. Personally I don't even understand the point of regions at all if Koreans can play as Americans ect, it's pointless then.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't look at it like that. Personally I don't even understand the point of regions at all if Koreans can play as Americans ect, it's pointless then.


Ping, you cant have NA play with AUS for example. Someone will get game-deciding lag.


----------



## espn

meaningless to have NA, Europe whatever area when all are koreans anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> meaningless to have NA, Europe whatever area when all are koreans anyway.


Yep. That's how I feel. There is no point to regional tournaments if they aren't truly regional.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yep. That's how I feel. There is no point to regional tournaments if they aren't truly regional.


That's why I stated you can not be part of a region unless you live there for the season. The season needs to be a year season also. Quit this 4 championships a year thing. It is so dumb. There is nothing to look forward to. Nothing long enough to build suspense.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> That's why I stated you can not be part of a region unless you live there for the season. The season needs to be a year season also. Quit this 4 championships a year thing. It is so dumb. There is nothing to look forward to. Nothing long enough to build suspense.


I cannot tell who is who, these koreans look the same. You know korean loves to do plastic surgery all miss korea have the same face.


----------



## Cybertox

The cinematic trailer of Legacy of the Void seemed to be pretty cool. Hopefully some in-game footage will be showcased as well.


----------



## DIYDeath

Not sure I like the change to immortals, it could break a few things but beta will show.

I like all the zerg changes, its exactly what they needed.

Also, the complete overhaul to the economy is going to decimate builds. I might actually start taking the game seriously again with LotV.


----------



## Qu1ckset

A lot of changes made for each race, Zerg looking like they got the best of the three.... , dislike the change to the Immortal as well!


----------



## DIYDeath

I like the idea of Immortals losing some effectiveness vs Roaches though and Immortal Sentry will not be viable anymore vs a Roach rush, which was pretty much the only way to hold off a solid roach push early on.


----------



## Anti!!

HOLY CRAP AT THE CHANGES!!

I am happy to see they tried to make things more micro intensive, but I do see alot of things that probably won't make the cut. That being said I am excited about the extra drop play focus.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure things won't make the cut, but a few notes from all the videos ( which can be found here FYI http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/legacy-of-the-void/#campaign ):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4i11hPX5tNBXRY30dLU30xknsrmy6-Ex

- Siege tanks being able to be lifted!!! YES FINALLY. This gives us terran players so much more potential for retreat, harass, ect. One of my favorite changes
- Immortal Redesign, YES no more scrubby 1A immortal newbs destroy my far superior army. I'm a tank whore, this change was a long time coming. THey will still be good too so its not a big loss.
- Swarm hosts, glad they realized how lame these were, now they might be better with huge cooldowns.
- Lurkers, nice








- Thor change is very nice
- New Terran units look interesting, but I'd have to try them.
- Battlecruiser Blink, OMG dream come true! That is hot.
- Not sure the skill cap for protoss will go up much based on the video
- By far the most exciting feature so far is automated tournaments


----------



## Sainesk

Lurker! brb need to change pants.

Picking up tanks in sieged mode and insta dropping them in siege mode again -> lol that's going to be nerfed before the game is even launched, Thor repairing (if at no resource cost) so fast -> focus down Thors or opponent has free endless supply of Thors, Battlecruiser teleport anywhere on map instantly without vision I don't think there's a need to even explain. Looks like Terran really getting the best deal to start with in my opinion.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Lurker! brb need to change pants.
> 
> Picking up tanks in sieged mode and insta dropping them in siege mode again -> lol that's going to be nerfed before the game is even launched, Thor repairing (if at no resource cost) so fast -> focus down Thors or opponent has free endless supply of Thors, Battlecruiser teleport anywhere on map instantly without vision I don't think there's a need to even explain. Looks like Terran really getting the best deal to start with in my opinion.


Good. And no, that sieged tank thing isnt going away, I'd bet on that.


----------



## Sainesk

So LoTV has apparently been confirmed as standalone (no need for WoL and HotS), I was really looking forward to a collector's battlechest (all 3 games) but looks like there's no point/unlikely now. Good for new players though that just want the multiplayer experience.


----------



## Cybertox

I like some of the changes made. The new Terran units seem to be quite fun and effective. I really like the idea that Siege Tanks can be dropped while already in siege mode. The fact that Battlecruisers can teleport anywhere on the map is pretty cool too. The ability of Thors repairing themselves is awesome, definitely a nice addition. However the changes made to Protoss are quite lame, it makes Protoss even more boring to play as, I also do not appreciate the Immortal changes. New Zerg units are freaking sick, the Ravager and Lurker are great units to add to the game. The changes made to the already available zerg units are probably the best ones when compared to the ones made to other races.

In conclusion I must say that I like that the game has now more emphasis on micro.


----------



## sweffymo

As a protoss player, I'm kind of sad about the current changes. This is supposed to be the Protoss expansion and yet the other two races were the only ones that got cool units. I don't think that the new units for Protoss will really find a use in competitive play.

At least the WCS games have been pretty good!


----------



## ronnin426850

I only bought HotS because I thought it would be required for LotV. I hope to get a few % off now, otherwise I'm screwed.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> As a protoss player, I'm kind of sad about the current changes. This is supposed to be the Protoss expansion and yet the other two races were the only ones that got cool units. I don't think that the new units for Protoss will really find a use in competitive play.
> 
> At least the WCS games have been pretty good!


They said they had one more Protoss unit maybe, and it is alpha, so I'd expect some changes.

I don't why everyone is so sad about the immortal, it was so scrubby before now at least you have to use your brain and attention a little bit. You don't know how stupid of a counter it was unless you played Terran mech, it really let less skilled players win way too much.


----------



## DoomDash

Okay terran looks a little broken.


----------



## fashric

Lol new terran units are op at the moment but I'm loving the new abilities, so much micro potential.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> They said they had one more Protoss unit maybe, and it is alpha, so I'd expect some changes.
> 
> I don't why everyone is so sad about the immortal, it was so scrubby before now at least you have to use your brain and attention a little bit. You don't know how stupid of a counter it was unless you played Terran mech, it really let less skilled players win way too much.


How you feel about the Immortal is how everyone feels about the marine.

The Immortal is a direct counter to units like Ultralisks, Thors, Tanks and gigantic stephano Roach pushes. There's no doubt that terran mech needs a buff but nerfing the immortal is not how to accomplish that goal.

p.s. if you're rich enough to make mech, you're rich enough to make a few ghosts, which are essential as you need to land EMP for your mech to contend with Immortals.

Sounds like the Marine, where we bring splash damage or marines stim ftw.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> How you feel about the Immortal is how everyone feels about the marine.
> 
> The Immortal is a direct counter to units like Ultralisks, Thors, Tanks and gigantic stephano Roach pushes. There's no doubt that terran mech needs a buff but nerfing the immortal is not how to accomplish that goal.
> 
> p.s. if you're rich enough to make mech, you're rich enough to make a few ghosts, which are essential as you need to land EMP for your mech to contend with Immortals.
> 
> Sounds like the Marine, where we bring splash damage or marines stim ftw.


Lol it's nothing like the marine. I don't know how you can even remotely think that. Marines MUST be microed, marines must be split, marines must be stutter stepped. If you don't have good micro with marines in most situations you lose, and that can't be said nearly as often about immortals. Seriously Immortals have nothing like marine splitting vs banes, or storm dodging, colossus laser splitting, ect. Marines are not forgiving.

I can't even begin to express how wrong you are. All they are doing to the immortal is making it less brain dead, now you can still have the same advantage, but situational and skill based. At the same time it has some advantages now vs the lighter units as the same time, which makes it far more well rounded, and much less of a hardcoutner, which is EXACTLY what SC2 needs. Immortals are not a high skill cap unit, at least now they will become higher. Marines are a *very* high skill cap unit.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Lol it's nothing like the marine. I don't know how you can even remotely think that. Marines MUST be microed, marines must be split, marines must be stutter stepped. If you don't have good micro with marines in most situations you lose, and that can't be said nearly as often about immortals. Seriously Immortals have nothing like marine splitting vs banes, or storm dodging, colossus laser splitting, ect. Marines are not forgiving.


That wasnt the point, the point was that marines need a hard counter because theyre way too damn good at what they do. And that's fine, just like the Immortal because both units have their respective weaknesses.

Marines are squishy
Immortals are not easily replaced/are weak to low damage, high attack speed attacks.
Quote:


> I can't even begin to express how wrong you are. All they are doing to the immortal is making it less brain dead, now you can still have the same advantage


Hardened shield is being removed and replaced with an activatable ability that blocks damage. Next lets compare banelings and window mines because they both cause explosions!
Quote:


> , but situational and skill based. At the same time it has some advantages now vs the lighter units as the same time, which makes it far more well rounded, and much less of a hardcoutner, which is EXACTLY what SC2 needs. Immortals are not a high skill cap unit, at least now they will become higher. Marines are a *very* high skill cap unit.


My point was that terran get a unit which absolutely requires a hard counter from protoss to beat in mid-large scale battles, it's kind of hypocritical to complain and cry over the Immortal when Protoss have had to deal with marines which have pigeon holed protoss into robo or storms.

Marines are not a very high skill cap unit. Dont kid yourself.

If splash appears you split (not very hard to do)
If a stronger army is pressing for ground: press t then asasasasasasasas while retreating.
If a weaker army is present: press t then asasasasasasas while pushing forward

Harassing with drops?: press t, focus fire then load back up and run.

The only tricky part is timing your asasasasasasas properly so you get the proper commands or performing the above steps in 3+ locations at the same time.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That wasnt the point, the point was that marines need a hard counter because theyre way too damn good at what they do. And that's fine, just like the Immortal because both units have their respective weaknesses.
> 
> Marines are squishy
> Immortals are not easily replaced/are weak to low damage, high attack speed attacks.
> Hardened shield is being removed and replaced with an activatable ability that blocks damage. Next lets compare banelings and window mines because they both cause explosions!
> My point was that terran get a unit which absolutely requires a hard counter from protoss to beat in mid-large scale battles, it's kind of hypocritical to complain and cry over the Immortal when Protoss have had to deal with marines which have pigeon holed protoss into robo or storms.


Marines don't really exclusively cause the problem for Protoss gateway though, it's MMM. Also, I wouldn't say being pigeon holed into your amazing AoE tech units is a bad thing either. That's just how the game is intended to work. I would not say that marines hard counter anything you mentioned besides maybe lone zealots, especially not compared to the way Immortals do. So even giving your complaint I don't see how that is a remotely fair comparison.

And regardless, my points still stand, about the micro and skill required. I don't really see any negative effects of this change for anyone but the lazy. Protoss have a higher skill cap unit that has become more well rounded, and that's good.

And marines are very high skill cap. Sometimes more than others, but good marine splits, storm dodging, and being in the right position to avoid maximum colossus lasers is harder than any protoss micro in general.

What level do you play at? Because the way you make it seem, it doesn't seem very high based on your simple misunderstanding of marine micro.

And it's funny even as simplified as you made marine micro seem, it's still harder than anything people describe as deathball protoss micro. Everything about Protoss is easier, even the base management and drop defense.

The only thing harder about playing protoss is winning with a low skill cap race, which means at the highest level it actually IS harder to win with protoss against a perfect terran or zerg.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Marines don't really exclusively cause the problem for Protoss gateway though, it's MMM.


Immortals dont exclusively cause the problem either: unless you're that special type of player who thinks massing slow, armored units vs anti armor, damage soakers was a smart idea.
Quote:


> Also, I wouldn't say being pigeon holed into your amazing AoE tech units is a bad thing either.


It makes the most gimmicky race more predictable which plays massively into play and counter play. Its not bad, it's just not good because you pretty much know what Protoss is going to do before they do and can abuse that where Protoss simply doesnt have a choice because there are no other viable options.
Quote:


> That's just how the game is intended to work.


Exactly and its why the Immortal should be left alone. If mech is so bad that auto-loses to massed Immortals: then buff mech. If mech is good but never used because Bio is better: Bio needs to be nerfed.

Frankly I think its a mix of both. Bio overshadows mech because bio is far too good for a basic build which is easily accessible. Not overpowered, just so good that there's no real reason a terran player would touch mech, bar TvT or special circumstance (like late game TvZ).
This has to do with mech moving too slowly and the production facilities not being fast enough to keep up with the attrition of battle compared to, 10 rax or 3 hatcheries of larva or a few warpgates+chrono boost.

On a side note: I hope they remove that stupid new bio unit. Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making Bio and make more mech. Thats the problem that needs fixing, bio is complete..any more additions give terran players less of a reason to go mech.
Quote:


> I would not say that marines hard counter anything you mentioned besides maybe lone zealots, especially not compared to the way Immortals do. So even giving your complaint I don't see how that is a remotely fair comparison.


Marines in numbers+stim deal so much damage they counter everything but their hard counters . Thats why I didnt mention them hard countering anything because they're the jack of all trades, equally viable against any unit that doesnt have the damage output potential to deal with how squishy the marine is.
Quote:


> And regardless, my points still stand, about the micro and skill required. I don't really see any negative effects of this change for anyone but the lazy. Protoss have a higher skill cap unit that has become more well rounded, and that's good.


That's not the issue, the issue is that the Immortal needs to be a meat shield at pretty much all times due to certain units which are otherwise impossible for Protoss to deal with early on.

Protoss have an extremely hard time vs Roaches for example, we need Immortals and sentries to deal with them. If you are outnumbered 1 Immortal for every, 5 roaches you need every single Immortal to be as meaty as possible as frequently as possible.

Normally FF would compensate by keeping roaches out of range but the ravager kills FF thus making hardened shield much more important.

I cant think of a single scenario vs Terran where you absolutely need the Immortal though, vs terran its mostly a "if you go mech, I will win" button.

So in order to make mech viable without running into the roach situation you wouldn't nerf the Immortal, you'd buff mech in a way to deal with the Immortal specifically.

Now for the tricky part: Ghosts already deal with Immortals easily. Very easily. Mech doesnt need a direct buff against the Immortal as much as it needs easier, cheaper access to Ghosts. Mech just needs a way to bring its firepower to bear more quickly and consistently without losing everything to attrition.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Immortals dont exclusively cause the problem either: unless you're that special type of player who thinks massing slow, armored units vs anti armor, damage soakers was a smart idea.
> It makes the most gimmicky race more predictable which plays massively into play and counter play. Its not bad, it's just not good because you pretty much know what Protoss is going to do before they do and can abuse that where Protoss simply doesnt have a choice because there are no other viable options.
> Exactly and its why the Immortal should be left alone. If mech is so bad that auto-loses to massed Immortals: then buff mech. If mech is good but never used because Bio is better: Bio needs to be nerfed.
> 
> Frankly I think its a mix of both. Bio overshadows mech because bio is far too good for a basic build which is easily accessible. Not overpowered, just so good that there's no real reason a terran player would touch mech, bar TvT or special circumstance (like late game TvZ).
> This has to do with mech moving too slowly and the production facilities not being fast enough to keep up with the attrition of battle compared to, 10 rax or 3 hatcheries of larva or a few warpgates+chrono boost.
> 
> On a side note: I hope they remove that stupid new bio unit. Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making Bio and make more mech. Thats the problem that needs fixing, bio is complete..any more additions give terran players less of a reason to go mech.
> Marines in numbers+stim deal so much damage they counter everything but their hard counters . Thats why I didnt mention them hard countering anything because they're the jack of all trades, equally viable against any unit that doesnt have the damage output potential to deal with how squishy the marine is.
> That's not the issue, the issue is that the Immortal needs to be a meat shield at pretty much all times due to certain units which are otherwise impossible for Protoss to deal with early on.
> 
> Protoss have an extremely hard time vs Roaches for example, we need Immortals and sentries to deal with them. If you are outnumbered 1 Immortal for every, 5 roaches you need every single Immortal to be as meaty as possible as frequently as possible.
> 
> Normally FF would compensate by keeping roaches out of range but the ravager kills FF thus making hardened shield much more important.
> 
> I cant think of a single scenario vs Terran where you absolutely need the Immortal though, vs terran its mostly a "if you go mech, I will win" button.
> 
> So in order to make mech viable without running into the roach situation you wouldn't nerf the Immortal, you'd buff mech in a way to deal with the Immortal specifically.
> 
> Now for the tricky part: Ghosts already deal with Immortals easily. Very easily. Mech doesnt need a direct buff against the Immortal as much as it needs easier, cheaper access to Ghosts. Mech just needs a way to bring its firepower to bear more quickly and consistently without losing everything to attrition.


I wish ghosts was the answer though, believe me I spent every season of HotS I played trying to make mech work reliably against Protoss, and even with ghosts I couldn't make it work well. The thing about ghosts is that they are too damn expensive, and they majorly hurt you mech army. They don't naturally flow well with mech either. There are games where I've won because of them of course, but the amount of times I lost games I was ahead to simple 1A deathballs ( into sieged tanks btw, this isn't being caught off guard ), is way too high.

Maybe we just disagree that the immortal SHOULD be a hard counter. I don't believe mech needs a buff, I personally believe that the mechanics of Protoss just need to change to be more of a battle of skillful micro/energy use, rather than a unit that just roflstomps tanks. Mech itself could work perfectly fine unchanged, I just think it's protoss that needs to change. Ever since SC2 protoss has been the most complained about in terms of design, and I still feel that it needs the most change mechanically, to be rewarding to high skill players.

Mech to me actually works like the deathball, but things like position, map awareness, and unit awareness play far more of a roll in the strategy of mech. That's something that I just don't think Protoss has to worry about nearly as much. So basically if Blizzard wants Protoss to also be a death ball race, I'd at least like to see more tactics being involved in that style, like mech has.

With mech you can't just recall home, or warp in either. It has so many more disadvantages.

The immortal isn't even half as annoying to me as the easiest to use good unit in the game, the colossus is guilty of that. You don't even have to have awareness of it in your army since it steps over its own units, cliffs, ect. It will basically automatically go into the good positions and ranges. So dumb.

Oh and I have no problem with bio nerfs if colossus and templar also get them in some way.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wish ghosts was the answer though, believe me I spent every season of HotS I played trying to make mech work reliably against Protoss, and even with ghosts I couldn't make it work well. The thing about ghosts is that they are too damn expensive, and they majorly hurt you mech army. They don't naturally flow well with mech either. There are games where I've won because of them of course, but the amount of times I lost games I was ahead to simple 1A deathballs ( into sieged tanks btw, this isn't being caught off guard ), is way too high.


Ive had the same thing happen to me a few times. I have a vastly superior army and am utterly destroying terran with micro, etc. Then 2 EMPS land and stim+1a takes the game.
Quote:


> Maybe we just disagree that the immortal SHOULD be a hard counter. I don't believe mech needs a buff, I personally believe that the mechanics of Protoss just need to change to be more of a battle of skillful micro/energy use, rather than a unit that just roflstomps tanks. Mech itself could work perfectly fine unchanged, I just think it's protoss that needs to change. Ever since SC2 protoss has been the most complained about in terms of design, and I still feel that it needs the most change mechanically, to be rewarding to high skill players.
> 
> Mech to me actually works like the deathball, but things like position, map awareness, and unit awareness play far more of a roll in the strategy of mech. That's something that I just don't think Protoss has to worry about nearly as much. So basically if Blizzard wants Protoss to also be a death ball race, I'd at least like to see more tactics being involved in that style, like mech has.
> 
> With mech you can't just recall home, or warp in either. It has so many more disadvantages.


Agreed mostly but as long as bio is a one stop answer for everything due to being too cost effective mech will always see diminished play.
Quote:


> The immortal isn't even half as annoying to me as the easiest to use good unit in the game, the colossus is guilty of that. You don't even have to have awareness of it in your army since it steps over its own units, cliffs, ect. It will basically automatically go into the good positions and ranges. So dumb.


Good thing the Colossus is super easy to counter. Hell, because its so easy to beat I often times dont bother with it. Storm and Archons are good enough to mop up bio...or they used to be until Blizzard decided to make chargelots freaking useless vs terran thanks to hellbats. Now Im forced back into a more traditional deathball.

Blizzard screws up design a lot and as bad as Protoss's design is overall I think they screw up on Terran a lot more often and in worse ways.

Just look at the start of WoL and HotS. Terran were utterly broken and every time a new strategy came out to threaten terran it was nerfed while terran were left alone, only to get nerfed after a major event.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Okay terran looks a little broken.


New units look exciting. Terran looks massively overpowered atm though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Ive had the same thing happen to me a few times. I have a vastly superior army and am utterly destroying terran with micro, etc. Then 2 EMPS land and stim+1a takes the game.
> .


That can happen, but I would say its usually when Protoss clumps their units or doesn't have enough ghost awareness. Same thing can happen with templars, however since I'm a mech player I think I get screwed far more often being ahead than visa versa.

Why do you think Terran is more fundementally broken than Protoss? I think every race needs to be as rewarding as Terran personally, only then will they be even at the top end truly.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That can happen, but I would say its usually when Protoss clumps their units or doesn't have enough ghost awareness. Same thing can happen with templars, however since I'm a mech player I think I get screwed far more often being ahead than visa versa.
> 
> Why do you think Terran is more fundementally broken than Protoss? I think every race needs to be as rewarding as Terran personally, only then will they be even at the top end truly.


I dont think terran is fundamentally more broken, I just think bio is too effective and blizzard keeps indirectly buffing bio which perpetuates the issue of stagnation.

The issue with EMP vs Protoss is if Terran are using ghosts that means they have a mostly bio comp so their army is largely replaceable while Ghosts make short work of every single Protoss unit, including the ones you need to deal with the bio composition which are expensive and slow to build. You can't even run because stim makes marines too fast to run from.

Its a hard counter to an entire race, the only reason why its "balanced" (its not balanced at all, its just not seen often enough for it to be recognized as a problem, just like terran lift offs to force ties) is because Ghosts are expensive.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I dont think terran is fundamentally more broken, I just think bio is too effective and blizzard keeps indirectly buffing bio which perpetuates the issue of stagnation.
> 
> The issue with EMP vs Protoss is if Terran are using ghosts that means they have a mostly bio comp so their army is largely replaceable while Ghosts make short work of every single Protoss unit, including the ones you need to deal with the bio composition which are expensive and slow to build. You can't even run because stim makes marines too fast to run from.
> 
> Its a hard counter to an entire race, the only reason why its "balanced" (its not balanced at all, its just not seen often enough for it to be recognized as a problem, just like terran lift offs to force ties) is because Ghosts are expensive.


Well if you think about it, the ghost is a bandaid to the fact that Protoss is clearly stronger late game without it. It's the same pigeon hold you brought up before, but IMO the ghost pigeon hold is worse, since its very volatile. This all goes back to the fact that Terran's late game is weak, and Protoss's is too strong. Fix that issue and no one has a problem with a massive ghost nerf ( and hopefully cost reduction too ).


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well if you think about it, the ghost is a bandaid to the fact that Protoss is clearly stronger late game without it. It's the same pigeon hold you brought up before, but IMO the ghost pigeon hold is worse, since its very volatile. This all goes back to the fact that Terran's late game is weak, and Protoss's is too strong. Fix that issue and no one has a problem with a massive ghost nerf ( and hopefully cost reduction too ).


I definitely agree with that. terran late game is freaking awful which is why bio is used more than mech. LotV seems to be mostly about buffing late game terran and giving them *le gasp* more bio to play with.

The more I think about it the more I realize that the TvP matchup is basically the poster boy for bad design decisions.

Terran can't go mech, Protoss can't go air. EMP hard counters an entire race, storm decimates bio, which is the only alternative to mech.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyway, watching the WCS finals, MMA fighting!!!!


----------



## ronnin426850

Life totally deserves this title


----------



## DoomDash

Panel discussing the changes:


----------



## DIYDeath

Tried going on the sc2 forums to discuss these things; its impossible. Hate to say it but that place is full of some of the dumbest humans I have seen this side of yugioh.

Calling them contextually oblivious would be a compliment. Holy crap.


----------



## DoomDash

I anxiously await the day mech is extremely viable against Protoss and I'm already used to playing it.


----------



## SkipP

I am terrible at Starcraft 2. I am even worse at every other game. I have no hand-eye coordination and embarrassingly slow reaction times.

That said, I have clearly discovered something. When I took my placement match last season very late, I placed in Silver for the first time. Now, after 200+ games in Silver, I placed in Bronze after WINNING my placement match.

I might mention that I finished the season as rank 2 in my Silver league. So, if you care about your league placement, wait a week or three before taking your placement match.


----------



## DoomDash

Speaking of which, classic maps start today







!!!!!


----------



## ronnin426850

I think changes to Protoss are *Awesome!* Will make the game much more interesting! Especially the carrier and warp prism updates.


----------



## Cybertox

Is there an estimated release date for Legacy of the Void?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Is there an estimated release date for Legacy of the Void?


Probably not. It's in pre-alpha and still needs a beta test.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Probably not. It's in pre-alpha and still needs a beta test.


I suppose it is going to get released in a year then. Blizzard should hurry because the game looks very outdated for an 2015 title.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I suppose it is going to get released in a year then. Blizzard should hurry because the game looks very outdated for an 2015 title.


I don't think so at all, personally. Game looks great on extreme.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't think so at all, personally. Game looks great on extreme.


Game looks like from 2008. Those textures and models are awful. Its a competitive RTS though so they cant go nuts in terms of graphics. Everyone plays on lowest settings anyways.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Game looks like from 2008. Those textures and models are awful. Its a competitive RTS though so they cant go nuts in terms of graphics. Everyone plays on lowest settings anyways.


Yeah I just don't agree.


----------



## DoomDash

iNcontrol's thoughts.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Game looks like from 2008. Those textures and models are awful. Its a competitive RTS though so they cant go nuts in terms of graphics. Everyone plays on lowest settings anyways.


I agree with this. Graphics-wise it trades blows with C&C3, which came out 2007.

Since then we've had this:


So yeah... SC2 is 2008 tech + real-time shadows, SSAO which nobody ever sees, particle system that exists only on paper, and meh-definition textures.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I agree with this. Graphics-wise it trades blows with C&C3, which came out 2007.
> 
> Since then we've had this:
> 
> 
> So yeah... SC2 is 2008 tech + real-time shadows, SSAO which nobody ever sees, particle system that exists only on paper, and meh-definition textures.


It could be a little better but I think these games are already at a great looking state. You really can't go THAT much further.

More lotv impressions:


----------



## DIYDeath

HERE COMES THE DISRUPTORS! lol incontrol, you're amusing.


----------



## DoomDash

LOL I am already in love with the new season. The good old days of being able to punish Protoss and Zergs are back. Proxy Thor rush on Xel Naga TvP? Check.


----------



## ronnin426850

I tried to play Terran today. It was terrible. Won my placement match, but with a stalemate and opponent (P) quit







We went to base trade, he lost his Nexus and probes, I lost my army and base, we was left with stalkers only and I had 1 barracks lifted in the corner of the map







He had no workers and no resources for air, so he cursed at me for a while, then quit









I totally suck at Terran now, will probably stick to Protoss


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I tried to play Terran today. It was terrible. Won my placement match, but with a stalemate and opponent (P) quit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We went to base trade, he lost his Nexus and probes, I lost my army and base, we was left with stalkers only *and I had 1 barracks lifted in the corner of the map*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He had no workers and no resources for air, so he cursed at me for a while, then quit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally suck at Terran now, will probably stick to Protoss


Thats a pretty scum bag thing to do and is largely considered to be bad manners. To clarify because its not fair to just say that and leave: it doesnt make you a better player and is abusing a poorly thought through public game mechanic to prevent a loss which you deserved.

If this was a CC and you were doing this: fine, you have the ability to stay in the game with mules, etc. But with no possible way of you coming back...thats pretty unfair and shallow.


----------



## Anti!!

But it is part of the game and manners takes a back seat to someone wanting to win.









Also, on a side note. You mean to tell me that a protoss player did not even have the foresight to build a single phoenix for a race called terran which can float their buildings around and has been doing so since the dawn of starcraft? LOL I think he deserves to lose that way.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Thats a pretty scum bag thing to do and is largely considered to be bad manners. To clarify because its not fair to just say that and leave: it doesnt make you a better player and is abusing a poorly thought through public game mechanic to prevent a loss which you deserved.
> 
> If this was a CC and you were doing this: fine, you have the ability to stay in the game with mules, etc. But with no possible way of you coming back...thats pretty unfair and shallow.


He did not deserve a loss if the opponent lost his probes and nexus. That would mean they deserve a draw. It's perfectly fair to fly your barracks off and force the draw, that happens in tournaments, it's how you play.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> But it is part of the game and manners takes a back seat to someone wanting to win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, on a side note. You mean to tell me that a protoss player did not even have the foresight to build a single phoenix for a race called terran which can float their buildings around and has been doing so since the dawn of starcraft? LOL I think he deserves to lose that way.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He did not deserve a loss if the opponent lost his probes and nexus. That would mean they deserve a draw. It's perfectly fair to fly your barracks off and force the draw, that happens in tournaments, it's how you play.


Thank you







It was a pretty terrible match overall, and if P had outclassed me, I wouldn't have done that. But he was terrible and we were *both* in a place where we can't gather resources and continue the game. At that point I believe you are allowed to use whatever to survive. Also, after we lost our original CC and Nexus, I expanded to another location, he did not. I lost my expansion eventually, but he didn't even show desire to rebuild while he had the chance.


----------



## DoomDash

It happens in chess all the time, lose or draw? You think anyone chooses to lose?









Anyway, I'm back to playing again







. I am doing pretty well so far, these maps fit me extremely well. I lost 3 TvZ's, because I'm playing it WoL style ( MM+T ) to get my micro back. Mech was intensive but with a different style of control, and because of that I had extremely weak marine micro ect.

Seems like what I mostly get is metalopolis, but I do have cloud kingdom and the newer maps thumbs downed.


----------



## ronnin426850

For some reason I love playing vs mech T as Protoss. It seems to fit my style and I win most of the time. I mostly do stalker + oracle opening into chargelot harass into VoidRay + Phoenix. I have no idea if that is a viable strategy in the upper divisions, but seems to work for me most of the time


----------



## ronnin426850

If you are a mech Terran that likes thrash metal, this can be really good to get you pumped up









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_c3GBrWsao


----------



## ronnin426850

Ok, sorry for triple-post







I have a question: If, as P, you open Nexus-first, and your gateway and cybernetics core are late, how do you defend from reaper opener from T? Stalker is late, MC is late, and you Have to build your nexus before you've had the chance to scout the enemy. So you build the nexus, T goes Reaper and you do what? Die?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, sorry for triple-post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question: If, as P, you open Nexus-first, and your gateway and cybernetics core are late, how do you defend from reaper opener from T? Stalker is late, MC is late, and you Have to build your nexus before you've had the chance to scout the enemy. So you build the nexus, T goes Reaper and you do what? Die?


Depends how many reapers, usually they send in 1 or 2 right away and last I played you pulled 3 probes per reaper and micro them (chase, pull the probe back when damaged and switch with one mining) to either delay the reapers until you get a stalker/something to deal with them or surround/corner and kill them. Really micro dependent this part from both players.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Depends how many reapers, usually they send in 1 or 2 right away and last I played you pulled 3 probes per reaper and micro them (chase, pull the probe back when damaged and switch with one mining) to either delay the reapers until you get a stalker/something to deal with them or surround/corner and kill them. Really micro dependent this part from both players.


So if I suck at micro, I can't reasonably nexus first vs T. Thanks


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> So if I suck at micro, I can't reasonably nexus first vs T. Thanks


Bingo, but don't let that stop you from trying. You will never get better with micro if you run from the situation.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He did not deserve a loss if the opponent lost his probes and nexus. That would mean they deserve a draw. It's perfectly fair to fly your barracks off and force the draw, that happens in tournaments, it's how you play.


Yeah, Im not buying it. Its bad manners and an indicator of other, deeper stuff.

The only players who end up defending that kind of crap are terran players themselves.

As for tourneys that matter, it's happened like...once. If it happened a lot in pro games it would be a huge problem.

Best part: it would take nothing to fix this: put a timer on buildings that are flying: if the timer expires the building auto lands on the ground below it, if there's no ground it loses health steadily until its destroyed or lands. If the timer is long enough then it doesnt affect a single, legitimate terran strategy.

Therefore the only reason left to keep such a poorly thought through draw mechanic is griefing.

Before someone says different races are different, this isn't about lift off, this is about how lift off works with the draw system. Specifically that interaction which is less about starcraft 2 units and abilities and more about the actual overarching game mechanics and how a certain race can interface with and abuse them.

Its like tying for gold in the Olympics using a new, unregulated drug that technically wasnt against the rules.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah, Im not buying it. Its bad manners and an indicator of other, deeper stuff.
> 
> The only players who end up defending that kind of crap are terran players themselves.
> 
> As for tourneys that matter, it's happened like...once. If it happened a lot in pro games it would be a huge problem.


I've seen it happen like 40 plus times in pro games. If it forces a draw I will do it too. If you think it's BM to not lose when you don't deserve to lose ( you forced the draw ), then you have some major entitlement issues. It's not like that Protoss player deserved to win, he was careless enough to lose his only nexus and probes, the situation deserves a draw. If he wants to win then he has to play to win, aka not make that mistake. He got what he deserved.

There is nothing BM about forcing a draw.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I've seen it happen like 40 plus times in pro games.


Yes, it's exceptionally rare which is why everyone just puts up with it.
Quote:


> If it forces a draw I will do it too. If you think it's BM to not lose when you don't deserve to lose ( you forced the draw ), then you have some major entitlement issues.


I'm sorry, if you're going to play a *competitive game* where *money is on the line*, I expect you to be an adult and not try to grief other players using the invisible mechanics of the game.
If you can't handle that then I highly suggest C&C instead and leave the esports to people who arent looking for loopholes to justify their griefing.
Quote:


> It's not like that Protoss player deserved to win, he was careless enough to lose his only nexus and probes, the situation deserves a draw. If he wants to win then he has to play to win, aka not make that mistake. He got what he deserved.


It shouldnt be a "mistake" to let your opponent fly a production building like a rax to the edge of a map if it ever came to a base race.
Terran already get advantage in the base race from lift off and that's fine. Lift off is good and balanced. What is not balanced is when people abuse the invisible rules of the draw to...not even their benefit, getting a draw doesnt help your stats at all, literally to grief another player.
Quote:


> There is nothing BM about forcing a draw.


You're segregating the concepts here.

The problem isnt forcing a draw, the concept isn't lift off being bad.

The concept is using invisible mechanics to alter the game in such a massive way that it dictates the end result, not with your skill but by taking those mechanics and using them in a unintended way.

The draw timer was never meant to be a terran-favored mechanic, it was designed to put a timer on needlessly lengthy games.

As I stated before, it would take nothing to solve the issue, just put a lengthy lift-off timer on terran buildings that you will never, ever have to worry about unless you're floating buildings off into a corner and let it float for a significant period of time.

Therefore if the fix doesnt impact any real strategies the only reason to be against it is because you actually want to abuse the mechanic.
There is no other logical explanation to your stance.

So my question to you is simple:

Why are you trying to justify abusing mechanics in a unintended way to get a result which is not beneficial to you?

Last time I checked people called this being a poor sport and a sore loser.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yes, it's exceptionally rare which is why everyone just puts up with it.
> I'm sorry, if you're going to play a *competitive game* where *money is on the line*, I expect you to be an adult and not try to grief other players using the invisible mechanics of the game.
> If you can't handle that then I highly suggest C&C instead and leave the esports to people who arent looking for loopholes to justify their griefing.
> It shouldnt be a "mistake" to let your opponent fly a production building like a rax to the edge of a map if it ever came to a base race.
> Terran already get advantage in the base race from lift off and that's fine. Lift off is good and balanced. What is not balanced is when people abuse the invisible rules of the draw to...not even their benefit, getting a draw doesnt help your stats at all, literally to grief another player.
> You're segregating the concepts here.
> 
> The problem isnt forcing a draw, the concept isn't lift off being bad.
> 
> The concept is using invisible mechanics to alter the game in such a massive way that it dictates the end result, not with your skill but by taking those mechanics and using them in a unintended way.
> 
> The draw timer was never meant to be a terran-favored mechanic, it was designed to put a timer on needlessly lengthy games.
> 
> As I stated before, it would take nothing to solve the issue, just put a lengthy lift-off timer on terran buildings that you will never, ever have to worry about unless you're floating buildings off into a corner and let it float for a significant period of time.
> 
> Therefore if the fix doesnt impact any real strategies the only reason to be against it is because you actually want to abuse the mechanic.
> There is no other logical explanation to your stance.
> 
> So my question to you is simple:
> 
> Why are you trying to justify abusing mechanics in a unintended way to get a result which is not beneficial to you?
> 
> Last time I checked people called this being a poor sport and a sore loser.


You act like they didn't design Terran to be this way, they did, and they are. Deal with it.

We aren't talking about flying a CC away to be a jerk, we are talking about forcing a draw so you don't lose, there is a big difference. I've had it happen to me too, and I never felt it was unfair, I knew I made mistakes and manned up to them. So the only sore loser is the one who "almost had it", and would rather blame the mechanics of the game than the fact that they could have prevented it. Sorry I don't appeal to this scrubby mindset.


----------



## DoomDash

The British thought that fighting in straight lines was sportsman like, while the American's adopted a more guerrilla warfare like approach, and look who won. The fact of the matter is sportsman ship doesn't really matter when it gets you wins.

CombatEX would BM people constantly to get in their heads, and guess what, a lot of times it worked. Some people play to win, and some people care way too much about what others think of them.

Another example of "unsportsmanlike" like behavior http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Chu . People thought what he was doing was abusive and unsportsman like, but guess what, he got tons of money abusing the system. You can say it's not smart, but I beg to differ.

Or that one story of the Eve online players hording a bunch of junk until the entire in game community ended up needing that junk, then there was literally only one source to get it, and they completely drove up the price and controlled the market. Again, lots of people felt that wasn't fair, but in reality it was smart, and even though the eve online devs patched it out, they let those guys keep all the money for abusing the system, because guess what, they deserved it.

The fact is, if you let this happen to you, it's your own fault, and you already know about it. MAN UP.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> We aren't talking about flying a CC away to be a jerk, we are talking about forcing a draw so you don't lose, there is a big difference.


Not in the end result. By time you forced that draw which saved you a few points you could have been finishing up a win to get more points back than you lost from the previous loss.
There is no benefit to you by doing this, you dont magically become a better player, you dont even guarantee you'll lose less points. All you do is make sure the opponent doesnt win.
Quote:


> I've had it happen to me too, and I never felt it was unfair, I knew I made mistakes and manned up to them. So the only sore loser is the one who "almost had it", and would rather blame the mechanics of the game than the fact that they could have prevented it. Sorry I don't appeal to this scrubby mindset.


Ive had it happen a few times, some were my fault and some were not my fault. That's not the issue, the issue is regardless of motive you are doing nothing good for yourself at the expense of the opponent when you're on the receiving end of some serious pain.

Scrubby mindset? Typical of the terran stereotype. Someone points out that you're abusing a mechanic and supports it with a logical progression? You attack them personally. Never mind addressing the core issue, who needs that when you can just insult people!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You act like they didn't design Terran to be this way, they did, and they are. Deal with it.


They didn't intend for terran to abuse an outside mechanic, let alone at no value to themselves yet at the detriment to the opponent. So, I'll continue to call poor sportsmanship as I see it and there's nothing you can do to stop me from doing it. Absolutely nothing. "Deal with it".


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The British thought that fighting in straight lines was sportsman like, while the American's adopted a more guerrilla warfare like approach, and look who won. The fact of the matter is sportsman ship doesn't really matter when it gets you wins.


sports=/=warfare.
Quote:


> CombatEX would BM people constantly to get in their heads, and guess what, a lot of times it worked. Some people play to win, and some people care way too much about what others think of them.


Way to detract from the issue. CombatEX's bming isn't the issue, Idra's bming isnt the issue. The issue is doing something very specific and replicatable which has no benefit to yourself using a neural mechanic which was intended to prevent games that never end, not as a way to deny someone a victory, within a sport. That is pretty much the definition of being a poor sport and a sore loser and is why most legitimate sports/esports deal with unintended consequences to their win condition mechanics, to avoid silly crap like this from happening, even if it is rare.
Quote:


> Another example of "unsportsmanlike" like behavior http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Chu . People thought what he was doing was abusive and unsportsman like, but guess what, he got tons of money abusing the system. You can say it's not smart, but I beg to differ.


There is nothing intelligent about lifting off a building and sending it on a shift journey, typing "brb getting a beer". Any idiot can do that, in fact less intelligent people are more prone to doing it as they dont realize that they gain literally nothing from doing this, except the animosity of their opponent and screwing them over as they try to advance in the tournament.
Quote:


> Or that one story of the Eve online players hording a bunch of junk until the entire in game community ended up needing that junk, then there was literally only one source to get it, and they completely drove up the price and controlled the market. Again, lots of people felt that wasn't fair, but in reality it was smart, and even though the eve online devs patched it out, they let those guys keep all the money for abusing the system, because guess what, they deserved it.


That's like playing the stock market, I dont know what wires got crossed in your head but how do you even come to associate this with lifting off to force a tie? The two situations are nothing alike.
Quote:


> The fact is, if you let this happen to you, it's your own fault, and you already know about it. MAN UP.


As someone who saw this crap happen frequently in beta with hellbat and mine drops, sometimes you cannot prevent it. So no, your ill-informed statements which hold no educational value are not going to hold any water. Try harder or accept that you will get called out for trying to force ties which are not beneficial to yourself and a detriment to your opponent in a sport. I can't believe you just tried to compare war to a freaking esport as justification for being unsportsmanlike.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Not in the end result. By time you forced that draw which saved you a few points you could have been finishing up a win to get more points back than you lost from the previous loss.
> There is no benefit to you by doing this, you dont magically become a better player, you dont even guarantee you'll lose less points. All you do is make sure the opponent doesnt win.
> Ive had it happen a few times, some were my fault and some were not my fault. That's not the issue, the issue is regardless of motive you are doing nothing good for yourself at the expense of the opponent when you're on the receiving end of some serious pain.
> 
> Scrubby mindset? Typical of the terran stereotype. Someone points out that you're abusing a mechanic and supports it with a logical progression? You attack them personally. Never mind addressing the core issue, who needs that when you can just insult people!
> They didn't intend for terran to abuse an outside mechanic, let alone at no value to themselves yet at the detriment to the opponent. So, I'll continue to call poor sportsmanship as I see it and there's nothing you can do to stop me from doing it. Absolutely nothing. "Deal with it".


And there is nothing you can do to make us feel guilty about it either, because I have no problem punishing people who give me the option for a draw. I already see that you say you "sometimes" let it happen to you, but deny that others are your own fault. This is the mentality I'm against, in SC2, and in life. I am sorry but I don't like when people play the victim card, it's weak. The fact of the matter is, ever time this happened to you, you could have avoided it if you played better. Accept your draw and move on. There is also no point on dwelling on the draw, because that doesn't give you any gains either, just learn from it, and do your best to not get in that situation again. That's how a winner looks at things.

Even if you don't "win" forcing a draw, it sometimes takes a bit of skill and creativity to actually force the draw. I've seen it in pro games, and I've done it myself. Not to mention you still gain the knowledge and experience from that draw. I'm sorry you aren't entitled to those wins.


----------



## DoomDash

I'll make it simple for you: If you let yourself lose everything you need to win the game, do you deserve to win? If you can honestly answer this yes, then you have NO hope.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> And there is nothing you can do to make us feel guilty about it either, because I have no problem punishing people who give me the option for a draw. I already see that you say you "sometimes" let it happen to you, but deny that others are your own fault. This is the mentality I'm against, in SC2, and in life. I am sorry but I don't like when people play the victim card, it's weak. The fact of the matter is, ever time this happened to you, you could have avoided it if you played better.


In beta when window mine drops and hellbat drops were viable this tie thing happened a lot. There are no absolutes in life so I reject your line of thinking in games and in life because sometimes, there's just nothing you could have done without the aid of hindsight. Context is everything.
Quote:


> Accept your draw and move on. There is also no point on dwelling on the draw, because that doesn't give you any gains either, just learn from it, and do your best to not get in that situation again. That's how a winner looks at things.


If you're opening that can of worms I'm gonna show you its full of maggots.
If being a winner means I lower myself to the point of purposely griefing people and proving to the world and to myself that on some level I get off on causing other people misery, I'll gladly be a loser any day. I win through my own skill and I lose by my own skill. I don't take poorly formed win conditions and abuse it and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't delude myself into thinking I was a big man for doing it.
Quote:


> Even if you don't "win" forcing a draw, it sometimes takes a bit of skill and creativity to actually force the draw. I've seen it in pro games, and I've done it myself. Not to mention you still gain the knowledge and experience from that draw. I'm sorry you aren't entitled to those wins.


It has nothing to do with whether you win or lose, thats what you're missing. This is an esport, people make money off of this and its so poorly designed that it has win mechanics that you as a particular race can abuse, not to favor yourself but to screw other people over. There's a reason why other esports and sports dont have systems like this.

I can't think of any other sport or esport that has such a blatant, poorly implemented, biased mechanic meaning Blizzard is the odd one out here. Everyone else gets it but Blizzard and evidently a lot of terran players (which I will reduce to bias, we all have it to a certain degree so its not an attack, its just a deduction based on probability and basic human psychology).


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'll make it simple for you: If you let yourself lose everything you need to win the game, do you deserve to win? If you can honestly answer this yes, then you have NO hope.







You're missing the point. The win or loss is irrelevant. Read my previous post, I explain more there.


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'll make it simple for you: If you let yourself lose everything you need to win the game, do you deserve to win? If you can honestly answer this yes, then you have NO hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're missing the point. The win or loss is irrelevant. Read my previous post, I explain more there.
Click to expand...

The win or loss is the *only* thing that matters in competitive games. If that results in abusive or degenerate play, that is a problem with the game, not with the players.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigpoppapump*
> 
> The win or loss is the *only* thing that matters in competitive games. If that results in abusive or degenerate play, that is a problem with the game, not with the players.


And in all honesty, it's not a problem. This has been around since BW and Blizzard has no problem with it. "Game working as intended". People just love to make excuses for their own short comings.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Don't forget that I've dealt with this MYSELF, in TvT base race situations. I only blamed myself for letting it happen.


This is my attitude, and this is how I learn to get better.


----------



## DoomDash

If there is an island map, and I lose all ability to get to the island to kill off zergs last extractor, I don't deserve to win. If that same Zerg killed all my units / structures capable of reaching the extractor, then he forced this draw, and we both deserve it. It's not exclusive to Terran, it's something that is a part of the game, so unless you accept that you're just pissing in the wind.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigpoppapump*
> 
> The win or loss is the *only* thing that matters in competitive games. If that results in abusive or degenerate play, that is a problem with the game, not with the players.


So if you can't win you make sure nobody wins? Seems detrimental to a competitive game to have this be a viable option, let alone a viable option for a singular sect within the game.

Thats my point. The way this mechanic can be abused is a problem for anything that wants to be seen as an esport. You could even take the general situation and apply it to any real sport, my argument wouldn't change. Its the mechanic that's the problem, not terran, not people who deny wins (even if I disagree with doing it). Its the mechanic itself and how it very specifically interacts with another mechanic of the game which results in this problem.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So if you can't win you make sure nobody wins? Seems detrimental to a competitive game to have this be a viable option, let alone a viable option for a singular sect within the game.
> 
> Thats my point. The way this mechanic can be abused is a problem for anything that wants to be seen as an esport. You could even take the general situation and apply it to any real sport, my argument wouldn't change. Its the mechanic that's the problem, not terran, not people who deny wins (even if I disagree with doing it). Its the mechanic itself and how it very specifically interacts with another mechanic of the game which results in this problem.


The thing is, forcing a draw in a tournament setting isn't a big deal like you are making it out to be. If that game forces a draw, in theory the better player should still win the series, that doesn't change. It's not like because the Terran player forced a draw one game it gave him some sort of competitive advantage, they are still on the exact same footing they were before.


----------



## ronnin426850

Ok, that's Enough!

DIYDeath, you don't know what you're talking about. Here is why, point by point:

1. "This mechanic is not intended to work that way!"
People have been doing it for DECADES. Readin' me well, mate? DECADES. Blizzard knows about it and keeps it as it is. Does that mean anything to you? This is precisely how it was intended.
2. "The fix for this issue is easy!"
The fix has already been implemented in the form of the "stalemate" mechanic. Had P not left the game, he would not have lost. And forcing a stalemate is a valid strategy in chess and warfare, I see no reason it would not be a valid strategy in an RTS game. Neither does Blizzard, apparently.
3. "Warfare =/= sports"
I'm not a pro player, so an RTS game where you play *war* is much closer to *warfare* than to sports, in my books.
4. "For the time it took you to force a draw, you could have won another game and gained more points"
It was a placement match.








5. "It is very rare in Pro matches!"
Yes, because Pro players have the brain to detect base trades, and be prepared with air units. Also, let me remind you that glorious ZvP, I think it was IEM semifinal this year, where they traded bases and lost everything, Z had 1 hatch and 1 drone, P had 1 voidray, and NOBODY WAS FORCING a draw mechanically, and any one of them could have won, but they still agreed to a draw. Because they realized they effed up and didn't deserve to win. People don't take pride in wins like this. Therefore I take no shame in forcing a draw. It is an outrage to even question a super valid and used for years and years strategy of damage control.
6. "Only Terrans defend it!"
My main is Protoss. And by the way, I've never let T get away with lifting buildings. And I'm silver.
7. "So if you can't win you make sure nobody wins?"
Damn right. You enter the game with the intention to win. When you get to a point where that is impossible, you aim for the next best thing - not to lose. This mentality is the default mentality of every human being on Earth. Except you, of course. How do you take issue with it now?!
8. "You could even take the general situation and apply it to any real sport, my argument wouldn't change."
Except chess (forcing a draw with king only), soccer (making subs in the added time when you're in the lead), F1 (entering pit during safety car), and literally any other major sport where federations decided "this tactic is just part of the game, it is legal and valid" just like Blizzard did with SC2. Your argument may not change, but it is dead-er than a zombie Michael Jackson with a Spice Girls t-shirt, whistling the soundtrack to the first Karate Kid on a cassette player.


----------



## Anti!!

I am zerg and i think it is the fault of the player that lets the terran float off into the sunset. I have never had a draw in all 3k of my 1v1 games. I also believe if i am DUMB enough to let him float off and have no way to kill air i deserve to lose or tie. End of discussion..

Also, doom didnt attack you.. If you call that an attack you havent had a hard enough life.

Lastly, show match 1v1 between dyi and doom. Lets take this to sc2! Lol That would be fun.

Ill take winner. *and lose miserably*


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lastly, show match 1v1 between dyi and doom. Lets take this to sc2! Lol That would be fun.


So much this


----------



## DoomDash

I can do that.


----------



## ronnin426850

7 lost games today, man, I'm BACK! ...to the worst shape of my life


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 7 lost games today, man, I'm BACK! ...to the worst shape of my life


Were any of them gold?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok, that's Enough!
> 
> DIYDeath, you don't know what you're talking about. Here is why, point by point:
> 
> 1. "This mechanic is not intended to work that way!"
> People have been doing it for DECADES. Readin' me well, mate? DECADES. Blizzard knows about it and keeps it as it is. Does that mean anything to you? This is precisely how it was intended.


Then that's stupid and Im glad sc2 as an esport is failing, it certainly deserves it if it cant even have unbiased win condition mechanics.
Quote:


> 2. "The fix for this issue is easy!"
> The fix has already been implemented in the form of the "stalemate" mechanic. Had P not left the game, he would not have lost. And forcing a stalemate is a valid strategy in chess and warfare, I see no reason it would not be a valid strategy in an RTS game. Neither does Blizzard, apparently.


The stalemate mechanic is the problem.
Quote:


> 3. "Warfare =/= sports"
> I'm not a pro player, so an RTS game where you play *war* is much closer to *warfare* than to sports, in my books.


If you can't differentiate war and a game which is played competitively for prize pools...well then I have nothing to say to you.
Quote:


> 4. "For the time it took you to force a draw, you could have won another game and gained more points"
> It was a placement match.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. "It is very rare in Pro matches!"
> Yes, because Pro players have the brain to detect base trades, and be prepared with air units. Also, let me remind you that glorious ZvP, I think it was IEM semifinal this year, where they traded bases and lost everything, Z had 1 hatch and 1 drone, P had 1 voidray, and NOBODY WAS FORCING a draw mechanically, and any one of them could have won, but they still agreed to a draw. Because they realized they effed up and didn't deserve to win. People don't take pride in wins like this. Therefore I take no shame in forcing a draw. It is an outrage to even question a super valid and used for years and years strategy of damage control.


You know that Im diamond league, right? I know why its rare, I'm not sure why you'd bring up placement matches when Im talking specifically about the competitive, money winning side of sc2.
Quote:


> 6. "Only Terrans defend it!"
> My main is Protoss. And by the way, I've never let T get away with lifting buildings. And I'm silver.


Yes, that was a tad bit unfair.
Telling me your league doesnt do you any favors here, Im not gonna play the league card, I used to be silver once upon a time as well but you should know full well that in silver you're more likely to see people mass marines than legitimately play the game which on occasion does end up in a base race. Especially during the era of widow mine drops, base racing due to mines happened a lot for that short stint in time. Terran players were forcing draws all the time and it was very, very hard to stop. Luckily that strategy got nerfed significantly.
Quote:


> 7. "So if you can't win you make sure nobody wins?"
> Damn right. You enter the game with the intention to win. When you get to a point where that is impossible, you aim for the next best thing - not to lose. This mentality is the default mentality of every human being on Earth. Except you, of course. How do you take issue with it now?!


My point is you're better off clicking surrender and going to the next game unless you actually have a shot at winning. What you're describing and implying is normal behavior is counter intuitive to good sportsmanship and its not at the benefit of yourself.
Quote:


> 8. "You could even take the general situation and apply it to any real sport, my argument wouldn't change."
> Except chess (forcing a draw with king only), soccer (making subs in the added time when you're in the lead), F1 (entering pit during safety car), and literally any other major sport where federations decided "this tactic is just part of the game, it is legal and valid" just like Blizzard did with SC2. Your argument may not change, but it is dead-er than a zombie Michael Jackson with a Spice Girls t-shirt, whistling the soundtrack to the first Karate Kid on a cassette player.


This is like saying United can force a draw if the hour hand of the clock is between 2 and 4, the game takes place in the UK and someone had a pint of Guinness before heading to the game.

My point is that the mechanic is biased, which plays a huge part in my opinion. Biased mechanics have no place in a asymmetrically designed esport. Your examples imply that anyone can do it, which is not true. This scenario is exclusive to terran.

Lets look at it this way: what does terran lifting off a non CC/Orbital and floating it to the corner of the map do for sc2?

I can't name a single positive to having the mechanic the way it is currently implemented, while I can name a few reasons why it would be positive to change it to be more neutral.

If you can list reasons as to why it should stick around Im all ears.


----------



## Anti!!

I think we can all see what happens next.

Someone lists a few reason, you shoot them down again, and we start this vicious cycle all over again.

Drop it guys. You have different opinions. Great.


----------



## poroboszcz

Glad to see SC2 doing well. Seeing the new map pool makes me want to play again. I think the 12 workers start is great as well, as it eliminates most BS strategies.

Regarding Terran floating buildings I personally find it annoying at occasions, but I don't think it's really that much of a deal. Not nearly as broken as swarm hosts.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I think we can all see what happens next.
> 
> Someone lists a few reason, you shoot them down again, and we start this vicious cycle all over again.
> 
> Drop it guys. You have different opinions. Great.


I have no intention of explaining my points again, because I believe I did it well enough the first time, and his response doesn't counter them sufficiently in my opinion. So now that this topic is hopefully over, is storm and blink stalker the best solution to mass Vikings?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Were any of them gold?


One of them, yes, Terran again. The other day I won vs a gold Terran


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Regarding Terran floating buildings I personally find it annoying at occasions, but I don't think it's really that much of a deal. Not nearly as broken as swarm hosts.


Yeah Swarm hosts are the worst.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I have no intention of explaining my points again, because I believe I did it well enough the first time, and his response doesn't counter them sufficiently in my opinion. So now that this topic is hopefully over, is storm and blink stalker the best solution to mass Vikings?
> One of them, yes, Terran again. The other day I won vs a gold Terran


Storm, blink stalkers, Mass phoenix and storms are good. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Did you guys see MKP is BACK. He surprised everyone at hots6:


----------



## DIYDeath

Looks like mk was riding on stim being broken. He should have lost game 2. No real harassment, the P player was harassing everywhere, was landing perfect storms which MK walked into and was sniping vikings well. MK mostly pressed t then 1-a'd with like 2-3 control groups.

MK countered well game 1 though, I will say that about his skill.

For the second vid: widow mines won it, was the dumbest victory Ive seen in a while, mostly because hero could have still won if he didn't get greedy and blink into a mine /used blink to evade the mine shots and force them to deal splash to MK's units.

Game 2 video 2 just shows how utterly stupid bio is. t 1-a marines, t shift click marauders and vikings on colossus, use judgment on what marauders will be attacking if vikings are doing their job.

May as well just rename sc2 to Biocraft. :/ That's not to say that terran are op, just how idiotic that during WoL and HotS PvT hasnt really changed.

Stim timings arent as end all be all thanks to the msc, terran have to worry about proxy stargate and stronger blink all-ins. Other than that not a single thing has changed because bio is simply so good it pushes mech or even some combination of mech+bio out of the equation in TvP.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Looks like mk was riding on stim being broken. He should have lost game 2. No real harassment, the P player was harassing everywhere, was landing perfect storms which MK walked into and was sniping vikings well. MK mostly pressed t then 1-a'd with like 2-3 control groups.
> 
> MK countered well game 1 though, I will say that about his skill.
> 
> For the second vid: widow mines won it, was the dumbest victory Ive seen in a while, mostly because hero could have still won if he didn't get greedy and blink into a mine /used blink to evade the mine shots and force them to deal splash to MK's units.
> 
> Game 2 video 2 just shows how utterly stupid bio is. t 1-a marines, t shift click marauders and vikings on colossus, use judgment on what marauders will be attacking if vikings are doing their job.
> 
> May as well just rename sc2 to Biocraft. :/ That's not to say that terran are op, just how idiotic that during WoL and HotS PvT hasnt really changed.
> 
> Stim timings arent as end all be all thanks to the msc, terran have to worry about proxy stargate and stronger blink all-ins. Other than that not a single thing has changed because bio is simply so good it pushes mech or even some combination of mech+bio out of the equation in TvP.


As a Terran player I can tell you either don't understand what's going on, or are just over simplifying blatantly. There are very obvious differences in skills of a bio player at the very very top, even compared to the very top. I would say the way that MarineKingPrime controls his bio is #1 or #2 in all the world, him and Maru I would say are the clear bio kings. It's not just 1A-t, there is a very precise timing on control different groups of the units those guys have mastered, especially in these engagements vs Zealots. Bio in general isn't extremely hard to micro decently unless storm is out, however to me its pretty clear how much perfection they have in these engagements compared to even the other top terrans like flash/innovation. A lot of Terrans lose those engagements easily.

Look at the previous matches of Innovation vs herO, he plays bio just like MKP, but MKP had better control and I think a better idea of how to make bio more effective in general, and the outcomes were completely different. You can say he is just riding the bio train, but guess what the bio train is what these guys normally crush, and it's not working for many people.

And I didn't see a single match that I thought MKP should have lost. He clearly out played these guys.


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Stim timings arent as end all be all thanks to the msc, terran have to worry about proxy stargate and stronger blink all-ins. Other than that not a single thing has changed because bio is simply so good it pushes mech or even some combination of mech+bio out of the equation in TvP.


Mech isn't viable in TvP because Immortals hard-counter most of it and a Protoss deathball can reinforce faster and alter its composition on the fly thanks to warp-ins.

I would lean the opposite direction and say that everything else is sort of bad compared to bio. It's flexible and powerful enough to have wiggle room against composition autolosses (except for vikings vs colossi), it's cheap enough and builds fast enough that it's possible to recover from a wipe, it's capable of harassment and splitting, and it's micro-intensive and flashy. All that's exactly what SC should be, it's just nearly every other army comp that doesn't live up to the standard.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> As a Terran player I can tell you either don't understand what's going on, or are just over simplifying blatantly. There are very obvious differences in skills of a bio player at the very very top, even compared to the very top. I would say the way that MarineKingPrime controls his bio is #1 or #2 in all the world, him and Maru I would say are the clear bio kings. It's not just 1A-t, there is a very precise timing on control different groups of the units those guys have mastered, especially in these engagements vs Zealots. Bio in general isn't extremely hard to micro decently unless storm is out, however to me its pretty clear how much perfection they have in these engagements compared to even the other top terrans like flash/innovation. A lot of Terrans lose those engagements easily.
> 
> Look at the previous matches of Innovation vs herO, he plays bio just like MKP, but MKP had better control and I think a better idea of how to make bio more effective in general, and the outcomes were completely different. You can say he is just riding the bio train, but guess what the bio train is what these guys normally crush, and it's not working for many people.
> 
> And I didn't see a single match that I thought MKP should have lost. He clearly out played these guys.


I know exactly what happened, he took his control group with the marauders and focused down the colossus with the marines functioning on 1-a.
He ignored storm all together and walked through them, he didn't harass at all. MK played an awful, awful game and should have lost.

The fact that he's riding the bio train isn't something I hold against terran at all, its just not viable in PvT.

The point isnt that terran is op or whatever, the point is MK won a game he should have lost because he made several major mistakes and the protoss player took advantage of several glaring weaknesses, which made no difference even though those weaknesses were exploited for most of the game.

Since you guys are so sensitive to opinions I'll let you deduce what you want from that but that's an indicator there's an underlying issue here - and this isn't the 1st time a situation like this has happened.


----------



## ronnin426850

nvm


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigpoppapump*
> 
> Mech isn't viable in TvP because Immortals hard-counter most of it and a Protoss deathball can reinforce faster and alter its composition on the fly thanks to warp-ins.
> 
> I would lean the opposite direction and say that everything else is sort of bad compared to bio. It's flexible and powerful enough to have wiggle room against composition autolosses (except for vikings vs colossi), it's cheap enough and builds fast enough that it's possible to recover from a wipe, it's capable of harassment and splitting, and it's micro-intensive and flashy. All that's exactly what SC should be, it's just nearly every other army comp that doesn't live up to the standard.


I completely agree with you. Bio is only op compared to other unit compositions because it does a little bit of everything but unlike a jack of all trades it excels at a few different things. Its way too flexible for how easily produced and maintained the unit comp is, again, compared to all other unit compositions.

My hope is Blizzard fixes this in LotV: either by giving every race good unit compositions or by nerfing bio+buffing mech to the point where both are usable. Either or works for me but something needs to get done.

On a different note: topped my fastest warp gate time: 5:40 and that's a viable warp gate with units to defend/pressure and my apm is always around 60+ which is good considering I dont spam keys for free apm/am currently playing protoss/havent been playing for the last few months.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I completely agree with you. Bio is only op compared to other unit compositions because it does a little bit of everything but unlike a jack of all trades it excels at a few different things. Its way too flexible for how easily produced and maintained the unit comp is, again, compared to all other unit compositions.
> 
> My hope is Blizzard fixes this in LotV: either by giving every race good unit compositions or by nerfing bio+buffing mech to the point where both are usable. Either or works for me but something needs to get done.
> 
> On a different note: topped my fastest warp gate time: 5:40 and that's a viable warp gate with units to defend/pressure and my apm is always around 60+ which is good considering I dont spam keys for free apm/am currently playing protoss/havent been playing for the last few months.


nvm


----------



## ronnin426850

IMO siege tank should be renamed to mobile artillery.
That thing just CAN'T TANK! Therefore it can't be "a tank".


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I completely agree with you. Bio is only op compared to other unit compositions because it does a little bit of everything but unlike a jack of all trades it excels at a few different things. Its way too flexible for how easily produced and maintained the unit comp is, again, compared to all other unit compositions.
> 
> My hope is Blizzard fixes this in LotV: either by giving every race good unit compositions or by nerfing bio+buffing mech to the point where both are usable. Either or works for me but something needs to get done.
> 
> On a different note: topped my fastest warp gate time: 5:40 and that's a viable warp gate with units to defend/pressure and my apm is always around 60+ which is good considering I dont spam keys for free apm/am currently playing protoss/havent been playing for the last few months.


my passion returns only to see someone discussing his "top warp gate research time" as a benchmark in 2014 balance discussing.

the passion loses to internet

as an "actually qualified balance discusser" bio has to be strong because the rest is bad. zerg and toss have good t3 MECHANICS and terran does not. what do i know though ive only been masters on all 3. im sure people who play only one race and have the ability to be unbias are better suited to discuss

also u would have to be blind to think marine king (not mkp anymoe) has good control compared to current players. just stop dick riding the top 2 or 3 guys....

edit - DIYdeath rofl the kids a protoss. WHO THINKS MSC WAS A GOOD CHANGE LOL. yo lol stop. no intelligent protoss has ever once said msc was anything but awful for the game. it stagnated all the openings and made protoss super easy compared to the race already being cheesy easy all in race to begin with. it took me a week to go from never playing the race to masters and it took me 2 months on terran because of how hard bio is to control WITH drops and harass. get good idiot my god


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> my passion returns only to see someone discussing his "top warp gate research time" as a benchmark in 2014 balance discussing.
> 
> the passion loses to internet
> 
> as an "actually qualified balance discusser" bio has to be strong because the rest is bad. zerg and toss have good t3 MECHANICS and terran does not. what do i know though ive only been masters on all 3. im sure people who play only one race and have the ability to be unbias are better suited to discuss
> 
> also u would have to be blind to think marine king (not mkp anymoe) has good control compared to current players. just stop dick riding the top 2 or 3 guys....
> 
> edit - DIYdeath rofl the kids a protoss. WHO THINKS MSC WAS A GOOD CHANGE LOL. yo lol stop. no intelligent protoss has ever once said msc was anything but awful for the game. it stagnated all the openings and made protoss super easy compared to the race already being cheesy easy all in race to begin with. it took me a week to go from never playing the race to masters and it took me 2 months on terran because of how hard bio is to control WITH drops and harass. get good idiot my god


lol was that hard to read.


----------



## fashric

This dreampool was a bad idea imo feels like the game has gone backwards on ladder.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric*
> 
> This dreampool was a bad idea imo feels like the game has gone backwards on ladder.


I love it.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> my passion returns only to see someone discussing his "top warp gate research time" as a benchmark in 2014 balance discussing.
> 
> the passion loses to internet
> 
> as an "actually qualified balance discusser" bio has to be strong because the rest is bad. zerg and toss have good t3 MECHANICS and terran does not. what do i know though ive only been masters on all 3. im sure people who play only one race and have the ability to be unbias are better suited to discuss
> 
> also u would have to be blind to think marine king (not mkp anymoe) has good control compared to current players. just stop dick riding the top 2 or 3 guys....
> 
> edit - DIYdeath rofl the kids a protoss. WHO THINKS MSC WAS A GOOD CHANGE LOL. yo lol stop. no intelligent protoss has ever once said msc was anything but awful for the game. it stagnated all the openings and made protoss super easy compared to the race already being cheesy easy all in race to begin with. it took me a week to go from never playing the race to masters and it took me 2 months on terran because of how hard bio is to control WITH drops and harass. get good idiot my god


YYYYYYEEEEEESSSSS!!!! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I love it.


I also love it.


----------



## eosgreen

anyone use an 8350 or the 4350 here and play team games? wondering how it does


----------



## DoomDash

You guys have to watch Zest vs Soulkey, WOW! It was game 2 from hots 6


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You guys have to watch Zest vs Soulkey, WOW! It was game 2 from hots 6


I may later

On a side note, when does this ladder season end?


----------



## Anti!!

You would think I had the plague the way I stop a thread in its tracks..


----------



## Cybertox

Its not you its the game, its dying out. That is what happens when you develop three expansions for the same game which is an RTS and not an MMO.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Its not you its the game, its dying out. That is what happens when you develop three expansions for the same game which is an RTS and not an MMO.


Well, in other news I have been playing some. My 1v1 is in top plat right now after 30 something games. My record is in my sig.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> You would think I had the plague the way I stop a thread in its tracks..


This is the third or fourth time this happens, isn't it?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> This is the third or fourth time this happens, isn't it?


I believe so. lol Feels like more. haha


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> anyone use an 8350 or the 4350 here and play team games? wondering how it does


I have an FX-8150 and it does fine. I had a 660 ti and now have a GTX-970. With some of the unlimited units team games where everyone maxes up you get some delays, but I get the same delays on my office Xeon workstation (Quadro k600 graphics). You are fine with an FX-8350. I have seen no need to upgrade from my FX-8150.

CPU's need to be really old to bottleneck graphics (think Phenom).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have an FX-8150 and it does fine. I had a 660 ti and now have a GTX-970. With some of the unlimited units team games where everyone maxes up you get some delays, but I get the same delays on my office Xeon workstation (Quadro k600 graphics). You are fine with an FX-8350. I have seen no need to upgrade from my FX-8150.
> 
> CPU's need to be really old to bottleneck graphics (think Phenom).


Even then it was still ok. I was running a 955 BE at 4.2 ghz and still plowing sc2.

Also, DoomDash what time zone do you live in? I never see you on when I play.


----------



## DoomDash

Debating getting back into it again. I know I quit and come back all the time.

Also, I find it funny that basically everyone agrees swarm hosts are terrible for SC2, and that hots is worse that WoL now, when I was saying this stuff ages ago and getting flamed for it on reddit.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Debating getting back into it again. I know I quit and come back all the time.
> 
> Also, I find it funny that basically everyone agrees swarm hosts are terrible for SC2, and that hots is worse that WoL now, when I was saying this stuff ages ago and getting flamed for it on reddit.


That's why I can't really take sc2 too seriously, Blizzard does a good job balancing units (even if it takes them forever) but there are design issues everywhere.

Just wait until LotV, HotS is going to end on a sour note just like WoL did...plus LotV fixes a lot of issues from what Ive seen in my testing. Siege Tank drops are completely busted though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's why I can't really take sc2 too seriously, Blizzard does a good job balancing units (even if it takes them forever) but there are design issues everywhere.
> 
> Just wait until LotV, HotS is going to end on a sour note just like WoL did...plus LotV fixes a lot of issues from what Ive seen in my testing. Siege Tank drops are completely busted though.


Can't wait for siege drops







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Can't wait for siege drops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Is it playable on the test realm? I didn't know that if it is.

As much as we all frequent this thread you would think we could play a game or few together sometimes.


----------



## blasco

There is a fan made arcade map that you can play


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Is it playable on the test realm? I didn't know that if it is.
> 
> As much as we all frequent this thread you would think we could play a game or few together sometimes.


I am central time, but I played at times that can be non-traditional for Americans







. I obviously haven't been playing, but maybe I will soon.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I am central time, but I played at times that can be non-traditional for Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I obviously haven't been playing, but maybe I will soon.


I should be on tonight around 9 - 12 CST. I want to see a turn out for once. lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> There is a fan made arcade map that you can play


CREEPER!!! lol. welcome


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I should be on tonight around 9 - 12 CST. I want to see a turn out for once. lol
> CREEPER!!! lol. welcome


I want to play but:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699674370#1


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I want to play but:
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699674370#1


Dude, that sucks. It doesn't have anything to do with Windowed mode does it?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Dude, that sucks. It doesn't have anything to do with Windowed mode does it?


Nah, and nothing has really changed I don't get it.

Well it's fixed now. Stupid problem that came out of no where.


----------



## DoomDash

Avilo makes me really question how I never made it to GM, although I occasionally take things away from him, he seems like he has more negatives than positives. For gosh sakes he plays with health bars completely off.


----------



## blasco

How long have you guys been playing StarCraft?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> How long have you guys been playing StarCraft?


I have been playing it since the original StarCraft game. However I haven't been playing lately as I am waiting for Legacy of the Void.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I have been playing it since the original StarCraft game. However I haven't been playing lately as I am waiting for Legacy of the Void.


I think this goes for most of us. I find it hard to motivate myself, since it's mostly lost effort to try and master the current units.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I too have been playing since the original, and I find I was far better in the original than I am in the second. I just can't seem to get any better now matter how many matches I play or anything like that.

I also just can't bring myself to play 1v1, as I always lose no matter what lol.


----------



## Anti!!

I sucked in SC. I never watched pros or had any tips. I was just a mouse click master that sucked.. I was waaaaaaaaaaaay better in sc2. I started from the ground up with hotkeys and mechanics.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> How long have you guys been playing StarCraft?


Since 1998. Played it religiously long before it blew up in Korea, and for a short time during that explosion. Got battlereports from 2000 to prove it :
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreports.php?reportnum=2809

Played on Kali.net back when bnet sucked for LAN's, played in clan ~nohunters, played in clan -x17 including tournaments. Play a bunch of famous old schoolers, probably some ones that weren't famous yet even.

So forever yes







.

And yeah I've been on again off again with SC2, want to get GM or back into Masters but life is a pain when you're 31 w/ wife and kid.


----------



## blasco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I have been playing it since the original StarCraft game. However I haven't been playing lately as I am waiting for Legacy of the Void.


That's cool man







I played many strategy games back in the day but i never played StarCraft until March 2013. Strangely at first i feel guilty about it, like i should have heard and played it earlier. Maybe StarCraft is not the best strategy game but the community and fans make it so with their support and hard work and i like that a lot.







Today I play 3-4 games on silver ladder everyday and feels good


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> That's cool man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I played many strategy games back in the day but i never played StarCraft until March 2013. Strangely at first i feel guilty about it, like i should have heard and played it earlier. Maybe StarCraft is not the best strategy game but the community and fans make it so with their support and hard work and i like that a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today I play 3-4 games on silver ladder everyday and feels good


Good thing you are enjoying it. Have fun


----------



## espn

When will SC2 third part come out?


----------



## Cybertox

An estimate would be 2015 Q1 or Q2. Q2 would be more likely.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> An estimate would be 2015 Q1 or Q2. Q2 would be more likely.


then my SC2 part 1 and 2 become rubbish if I don't buy part 3. I am not going to buy part 3 this time, I am too into playing Lol


----------



## Cybertox

You are contradicting yourself. I think if you wanted to skip some expansions the most rational thing to do would have been skipping the first two and getting the third one which is the last one. Or skip them altogether and get the bundle.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You are contradicting yourself. I think if you wanted to skip some expansions the most rational thing to do would have been skipping the first two and getting the third one which is the last one. Or skip them altogether and get the bundle.


Cannot run the third one without first and second right?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Cannot run the third one without first and second right?


No, it's gonna be standalone.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Cannot run the third one without first and second right?


From what I have heard the third and final expansion will be a standalone game.


----------



## Sainesk

With LoTV you just won't have WoL and HoTS campaign, but fewer people buy Starcraft for those alone since the game is really about competitive 1v1 at its core.

WoL and HoTS will be "rubish"-er since the majority of players will move on to LoTV multiplayer.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> From what I have heard the third and final expansion will be a standalone game.


Correct


----------



## DoomDash

Good http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699096472


----------



## blasco

Really? They finally understood nobody will buy all three games just to play multiplayer. Gaming world is changing, changing fast...


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> Really? They finally understood nobody will buy all three games just to play multiplayer. Gaming world is changing, changing fast...


Actually a lot of people like me don't even want to play $1 for online gaming now. I have more fun with Lol no matter I need to pay or not.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Good http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699096472


Swarm Hosts are broken because they provide unlimited free units. It doesn't matter if they crawl, fly or jump. I don't see how this fixes anything.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Swarm Hosts are broken because they provide unlimited free units. It doesn't matter if they crawl, fly or jump. I don't see how this fixes anything.


I agree, however at least they aren't sitting on their butt anymore and are taking some risks. Maybe they still will be broken, but now they are actually trying to fix it.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> From what I have heard the third and final expansion will be a standalone game.


actually I don't like this


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Actually a lot of people like me don't even want to play $1 for online gaming now. I have more fun with Lol no matter I need to pay or not.


If you don't like it why do you still come in here and post and bring the mood down?


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blasco*
> 
> Really? They finally understood nobody will buy all three games just to play multiplayer. Gaming world is changing, changing fast...


I am happy that it will be a stand along game just ot get a longer campaign. I loved the WoL campaign. I think it is my favorite of any game ever, up there with Super Mario Cart. I enjoyed HotS, but the campaign was too short. I have only gotten into the multiplayer in the last year, but I think the campaign along justifies a pre-order.


----------



## DoomDash

I kind of wish the story wasn't so cheesy Blizzard style, but in terms of the fun factor the SC2 campaigns are easily worth the money by themselves.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I kind of wish the story wasn't so cheesy Blizzard style, but in terms of the fun factor the SC2 campaigns are easily worth the money by themselves.


I enjoyed HoTS more than WoL of actually (which isn't the the consensus right?)


----------



## blasco

you favor zerg? or you just like the story?


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> I enjoyed HoTS more than WoL of actually (which isn't the the consensus right?)


I loved them both. I think WoL was longer and more complete, but I really got immersed into both. I love this series. I do not understand the critical response. So many games are simply dog excrement. This one is truly outstanding. I can get into a game once and a while (Bioshock Infinite, Metro 2033), but most are just lame. I love SC2. I suck at it, but I still have fun.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I loved them both. I think WoL was longer and more complete, but I really got immersed into both. I love this series. I do not understand the critical response. So many games are simply dog excrement. This one is truly outstanding. I can get into a game once and a while (Bioshock Infinite, Metro 2033), but most are just lame. I love SC2. I suck at it, but I still have fun.


yea, the key is to have fun. I often lose interest due to trying to hard to win every game. Then someone makes a mistake in their play, usually me and I rage. I have to constantly remind myself it is only fun. To do this I have to forget about league and play all of the races.


----------



## Cybertox

I played a few custom games last week, damn does this game run bad even on good hardware, not even talking about how ugly and zoomed in it is. Hopefully Legacy of the Void will have graphical improvements.


----------



## Anti!!

How did it run bad for you? I don't experience such issues. You have better specs that me too.


----------



## SirWaWa

how will the standalone part work with WoL/HoTS?
I want seamless integration
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I played a few custom games last week, damn does this game run bad even on good hardware, not even talking about how ugly and zoomed in it is. Hopefully Legacy of the Void will have graphical improvements.


they'll probably do the D3 xpac approach
use different shaders (aka no change)


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> how will the standalone part work with WoL/HoTS?
> I want seamless integration


It should be seamless.


----------



## ronnin426850

You should find this interesting









http://9gag.com/gag/aLP8DRW


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You should find this interesting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://9gag.com/gag/aLP8DRW


That is pretty awesome. Its really impressive how creative people can get with software like Besiege.


----------



## SkipP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I played a few custom games last week, damn does this game run bad even on good hardware, not even talking about how ugly and zoomed in it is. Hopefully Legacy of the Void will have graphical improvements.


Perhaps the custom game was poorly done. I have never had any trouble playing with an AMD FX-8150 and a 660ti. now I upgraded to a GTX 970, but it has made no difference in SC2.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> Perhaps the custom game was poorly done. I have never had any trouble playing with an AMD FX-8150 and a 660ti. now I upgraded to a GTX 970, but it has made no difference in SC2.


Maps were from the ladder. The issue is definitely not on my end. StarCraft 2 has poor hardware utilization.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Maps were from the ladder. The issue is definitely not on my end. StarCraft 2 has poor hardware utilization.










Time to reinstall Windows maybe?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to reinstall Windows maybe?


Not going to reinstall windows because everything else works great. As I said, the issue is definitely not on my end. Every other game that I have played runs great and as intended. Other non-gaming software works perfectly too.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Not going to reinstall windows because everything else works great. As I said, the issue is definitely not on my end. Every other game that I have played runs great and as intended. Other non-gaming software works perfectly too.


And the game runs fine on every other machine







These generalizations don't always help pinpoint the problem.


----------



## Cybertox

Ill just refrain from playing StarCraft 2 until Legacy of the Void gets released. The game does not really interest me in its current state. I used to play multiplayer a lot back in summer 2013, now I barely even launch the game, it just sits there and uses up my HDD space. I really hope that Legacy of the Void will bring in some major changes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Ill just refrain from playing StarCraft 2 until Legacy of the Void gets released. The game does nto really interest me in its current state. I used to play multiplayer a lot back in summer 2013, now I barely even launch the game, it just sits there and uses up my HDD space. I really hope that Legacy of the Void will bring in some major changes.


Same for me, WoL was very fun to play, HotS maybe too for a while, now it's just boring, intimidating, and hard. I install and uninstall it several times without even playing a single game.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Ill just refrain from playing StarCraft 2 until Legacy of the Void gets released. The game does not really interest me in its current state. I used to play multiplayer a lot back in summer 2013, now I barely even launch the game, it just sits there and uses up my HDD space. I really hope that Legacy of the Void will bring in some major changes.


SC2 IS FULL OF HACKERS. I want to remain anonymous, i fired up sc2 with map hack where i was able to see everything and even the movements, i wanted to come up with my own conclusion, sadly this is the only way to really see hackers, why? because a smart hacker can make so many things less obvious.

Turns out the community is not paranoid, there are a **** ton of hackers.

Most hackers i've seen were terrans, followed by protoss and finally zerg (either zerg has less hackers or it's difficult to tell if someone's hacking as a zerg).

I'm done with this game - until this game actually has a anti cheat system implemented. Horrible


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> SC2 IS FULL OF HACKERS. I want to remain anonymous, i fired up sc2 with map hack where i was able to see everything and even the movements, i wanted to come up with my own conclusion, sadly this is the only way to really see hackers, why? because a smart hacker can make so many things less obvious.
> 
> Turns out the community is not paranoid, there are a **** ton of hackers.
> 
> Most hackers i've seen were terrans, followed by protoss and finally zerg (either zerg has less hackers or it's difficult to tell if someone's hacking as a zerg).
> 
> I'm done with this game - until this game actually has a anti cheat system implemented. Horrible


I'm calling b.s. on this. While the game does have problems with hacking you're unlikely to run into any through sheer odds unless you're in masters+ (the point of cheating)

The honest truth with no sugar coating is you probably just suck at the game and keep losing because you're

1) inefficient
2) make bad strategic decisions on what units to manufacture

and

3) Don't know the meta game well enough to compete

If it was actual hacking you would have provided a replay, like everyone else who is worth their salt does when they claim [email protected]


----------



## Shadeh

I never said i'm stopping because of not being able to keep up... or being "inefficient" or whatever else you want to name it. i'm ranked top diamond, been 2x masters. The hacking problem is huge, whether you're willing to believe it or not. All you have to do is visit r/starcraft.. hacker threads are on the rise. I visit it on a daily basis as i still do like to watch the pros play and keep up with updates. Otherwise it's quite sickening in its current state. Can't really be bothered playing the game the way it is atm.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> I never said i'm stopping because of not being able to keep up... or being "inefficient" or whatever else you want to name it. i'm ranked top diamond, been 2x masters. The hacking problem is huge, whether you're willing to believe it or not. All you have to do is visit r/starcraft.. hacker threads are on the rise. I visit it on a daily basis as i still do like to watch the pros play and keep up with updates. Otherwise it's quite sickening in its current state. Can't really be bothered playing the game the way it is atm.


The provide replays or at least if its a clan you could mention the clan tag, if its hacking then the official forums will probably make such a huge stink over it that Blizzard actually takes notice. There's been hacker clans in the past which were quickly dismantleed because of it.

I never said you were stopping because you're "bad". I never mentioned why you were stopping once. All I said was that its probably not hacking and you're probably losing because you're not doing something as good as you could be doing it. Not trying to talk smack, At my best I was top Diamond in HotS so I don't really have a right to talk smack to someone who's at the worst as good as I am statistically speaking.


----------



## Anti!!

I try not to think whether someone hacks or not. You get caught in the vicious cycle of, THAT GUY IS BS. HE ISN'T THAT GOOD AND IS HACKING. I just play, find my mistake, and fix it. Then while watching a replay or something it will have to stick out like a sore thumb to seem like hacking, because usually I still could have played better in that situation and blocked what ever was coming.

Honestly map hacking is stupid against someone who scouts like they are supposed to. It is the mineral and auto build hackers that are a real problem, if there are any. Then the replay gets reported and blizzard bans them. That is why most hackers still stick to the less obvious hacks and therefore they are still beatable as your scouting can closely match their full map vision. As a matter of fact a good player, with good mechanics, and scouting will expos a map hacker much faster than a terrible player.

I am not worried, yet that is.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I try not to think whether someone hacks or not. You get caught in the vicious cycle of, THAT GUY IS BS. HE ISN'T THAT GOOD AND IS HACKING. I just play, find my mistake, and fix it. Then while watching a replay or something it will have to stick out like a sore thumb to seem like hacking, because usually I still could have played better in that situation and blocked what ever was coming.
> 
> Honestly map hacking is stupid against someone who scouts like they are supposed to. It is the mineral and auto build hackers that are a real problem, if there are any. Then the replay gets reported and blizzard bans them. That is why most hackers still stick to the less obvious hacks and therefore they are still beatable as your scouting can closely match their full map vision. As a matter of fact a good player, with good mechanics, and scouting will expos a map hacker much faster than a terrible player.
> 
> I am not worried, yet that is.


http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2xnkzr/map_hacking_being_called_out_on_proleague_even/

The higher you go up the ladder the more you can get out of map hack. The way it is with the ladder these days is not the same way it was either. Because the skill levels of players have increased a LOT. Top diamond players are very close to skill in comparison to master players. A blizzard mod even said they're working on ladder rank changes too.

Macro and micro helps, scouting helps, all to a certain degree. Where does map hacking actually help?
-It helps you identify early on if your enemy is playing greedy or not, say i go for a CC first build, if the player sees it he can outright kill you by just going for an all in build. (scouting can't help you in this case).

-You can better prepare for all ins (you see it coming minutes ahead)

- Drops are not really viable if a player knows your position the whole time.

-Dark templars, ez pz to hold.

-Mutas incoming? Doesn't matter, place enough units in my base.

This is all a much bigger issue then you think.


----------



## ronnin426850

Game should be redesigned to remove fog of war. That's when the real genius can shine.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Game should be redesigned to remove fog of war. That's when the real genius can shine.


I was immediately going to shut this down, but I thought for a second. Look at chess, there is no fog of war there. I wonder..


----------



## Cybertox

Without fog of war the game would be too technical.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Without fog of war the game would be too technical.


Opposed to what? Too "guessing and luck"? 1 technical for me, please


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Opposed to what? Too "guessing and luck"? 1 technical for me, please


Luck and other of the game's aspects are what makes StarCraft 2 so interesting to watch and play. Without Fog of War the game would be boring to death and way too technical for any type of enjoyment.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Luck and other of the game's aspects are what makes StarCraft 2 so interesting to watch and play. Without Fog of War the game would be boring to death and way too technical for any type of enjoyment.


Didn't you just say the game was boring and you're not gonna play until something major changes? Like, 4 posts ago?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Didn't you just say the game was boring and you're not gonna play until something major changes? Like, 4 posts ago?


It does get repetitive after a certain period of time just like every other game. I dont see your point.


----------



## vb10

sub'd for "strategy discussion"

currently treading water in the gold league of random 2v2 and 3v3


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vb10*
> 
> sub'd for "strategy discussion"
> 
> currently treading water in the gold league of random 2v2 and 3v3


Personally I get my 1v1 better and team games take care of themselves. The one thing to remember in team games is to perform safer builds that are more versatile. Unless you can scout and you KNOW you can be greedy and macro. I always find I do better in team games after sharpening up in 1v1. This way you are used to depending on yourself and your allies don't affect you as badly.

There are plenty of 2v2 and 3v3 strats out there, but those are usually more geared to 1 base all ins or high pressure into two base, kill. I would just google and youtube some strats. Maybe even check Teamliquid.net they may have good team strats. Again, these will always do better and make more sense to you when you first step up your 1v1 skills and mechanics.


----------



## SkipP

I love Starcraft even if I suck. I am a Bronze League Hero and proud. I may only play 1-4 hours per week, but I enjoy it. I work two jobs, and I do not have much free time. I know I will never be good, but this game if fun. I cannot imagine that map hacks are common down in bronze league. Even if they are, these guys must be gone up the ladder pretty fast.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I love Starcraft even if I suck. I am a Bronze League Hero and proud. I may only play 1-4 hours per week, but I enjoy it. I work two jobs, and I do not have much free time. I know I will never be good, but this game if fun. I cannot imagine that map hacks are common down in bronze league. Even if they are, these guys must be gone up the ladder pretty fast.


You probably will not see Map Hacks until you do get to High Diamond and up. The point of them is to get to GM if possible.


----------



## CravinR1

Anti knows as he's a notorious map hacker


----------



## DoomDash

I wonder how many games I've lost to map hackers. Didn't seem like a big deal when I was really active.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wonder how many games I've lost to map hackers. Didn't seem like a big deal when I was really active.


I think it wasn't a big deal back then. Seems to me people had more awe and respect towards the game and the community. IDK, may be just my impression.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anti knows as he's a notorious map hacker


LOL Yea, boy those hacks really helped me get stomped by you sometimes now didn't they? lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wonder how many games I've lost to map hackers. Didn't seem like a big deal when I was really active.


Same thing I was thinking. I never really thought that way. I can say out of 2k+ games that only 2 times stick out in my mind where I wondered.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I think it wasn't a big deal back then. Seems to me people had more awe and respect towards the game and the community. IDK, may be just my impression.


Yea, any true SC1 or 2 player has enough respect to not do it at all, and as we have seen here in the past, some don't.


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> LOL Yea, boy those hacks really helped me get stomped by you sometimes now didn't they?


Maybe it wasn't you, I've not been in this thread much.

Though the games we played when I posted replays it seems people were commenting how you were reacting and preparing wihtout any scouting?

Like I said that was over a year or 3 ago


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Maybe it wasn't you, I've not been in this thread much.
> 
> Though the games we played when I posted replays it seems people were commenting how you were reacting and preparing wihtout any scouting?
> 
> Like I said that was over a year or 3 ago


When you have a meta thats as predictable and stale as Starcraft 2 I don't think that's a good indicator if someone is cheating.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Maybe it wasn't you, I've not been in this thread much.
> 
> Though the games we played when I posted replays it seems people were commenting how you were reacting and preparing wihtout any scouting?
> 
> Like I said that was over a year or 3 ago


Nah, it wasn't me. lol You and I used to play legit games.

This is the post you are referring too.
http://www.overclock.net/t/782557/official-starcraft-2-strategy-discussion-thread/21210_30#post_19652384

Took me nearly an hour to find before leaving work









Why you do these things to me? lol jk


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone get LOTV beta?

God I remember when this game was huge, on here and off. So sad now.


----------



## Cybertox

LOTV looks so freaking boring and outdated.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Maybe it wasn't you, I've not been in this thread much.
> 
> Though the games we played when I posted replays it seems people were commenting how you were reacting and preparing wihtout any scouting?
> 
> Like I said that was over a year or 3 ago
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, it wasn't me. lol You and I used to play legit games.
> 
> This is the post you are referring too.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/782557/official-starcraft-2-strategy-discussion-thread/21210_30#post_19652384
> 
> Took me nearly an hour to find before leaving work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why you do these things to me? lol jk
Click to expand...

lmao I remember this guy.

I played against him, he had bronze mechanics, bronze tactics, bronze macro/micro but had "masters" scouting and timing :roll-eyes:
And LOVED to look over your base when there was just fog-of-war there









It was so obvious he was hacking it was a joke.


----------



## DIYDeath

I didn't think they invited humans to their betas these days, just human calculators.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> lmao I remember this guy.
> 
> I played against him, he had bronze mechanics, bronze tactics, bronze macro/micro but had "masters" scouting and timing :roll-eyes:
> And LOVED to look over your base when there was just fog-of-war there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was so obvious he was hacking it was a joke.


If we're going to fling mud please provide replays. I'm all for exposing hackes but we need to make sure they're hackers before we bring out the tar and feathers.


----------



## Sainesk

No invite yet







shame it's already over and launching soon!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV looks so freaking boring and outdated.


How do you figure?


----------



## CravinR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Nah, it wasn't me. lol You and I used to play legit games.
> 
> This is the post you are referring too.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/782557/official-starcraft-2-strategy-discussion-thread/21210_30#post_19652384
> 
> Took me nearly an hour to find before leaving work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why you do these things to me? lol jk


I do sincerely apologize. Yukss is the one who was bad for map hacking.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> I do sincerely apologize. Yukss is the one who was bad for map hacking.












LOTV....

Surprised I didn't get beta either. These guys really don't pay attention to who the loyal players are..


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOTV....
> 
> Surprised I didn't get beta either. These guys really don't pay attention to who the loyal players are..


1st wave is a bit different, 1st wave is basically the wave where you have to know the right people.

I got into beta on the 3rd wave for HotS and I was a nobody top plat at the time so there's a good chance you'll get in later in the beta cycle.


----------



## VaiFanatic

I love StarCraft and am excited for LoTV, but I am nowhere near as good at this game as I was at the first. Then, I haven't honestly really "tried" either. I prefer playing casually more than competitively these days, and often frequent the arcade games instead because I was a big fan of Use Map Settings maps in the first game. Now if only they'd make an SCII remake of Raccoon City.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

I never even played half way through HoTS, only because ???? I died on hard a few times ??? And switched to other games.

Just learned of LoTV. It better be a whole new generation of engine, graphics, etc. SC2 is fun as hell but looks ancient compared to what I want and expect in 2015 and with a r9 290 crossfire and 1440p @96Hz . And I'm hooked on FTL (Faster Than Light), its a little indie game with primative graphics, but SC should be advancing with the times.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaltenbrunner*
> 
> I never even played half way through HoTS, only because ???? I died on hard a few times ??? And switched to other games.
> 
> Just learned of LoTV. It better be a whole new generation of engine, graphics, etc. SC2 is fun as hell but looks ancient compared to what I want and expect in 2015 and with a r9 290 crossfire and 1440p @96Hz . And I'm hooked on FTL (Faster Than Light), its a little indie game with primative graphics, but SC should be advancing with the times.


FTL is love, FTL is life.

SC2 engine is aged AF.

You should not be playing on hard







Campaign is meant to be played on Normal. Hard is for those poor bastards that find Normal too easy to be interesting.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> FTL is love, FTL is life.
> 
> SC2 engine is aged AF.
> 
> You should not be playing on hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign is meant to be played on Normal. Hard is for those poor bastards that find Normal too easy to be interesting.


Agreed. I played on normal. I saved the effort for ladder. However, I did consider doing the whole thing on brutal just for the portraits.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> FTL is love, FTL is life.
> 
> SC2 engine is aged AF.
> 
> You should not be playing on hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign is meant to be played on Normal. Hard is for those poor bastards that find Normal too easy to be interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. I played on normal. I saved the effort for ladder. However, I did consider doing the whole thing on brutal just for the portraits.
Click to expand...

I played on Hard (or w/e the 2nd hardest diff. was) and found it really just a breeze to be honest.
Finished it later on Brutal much easier than WoL campaign was on Brutal IMO. (Never finished just 1 particular mission on that on Brutal







)

LotV has maybe like 1/50 interest for me, it's gonna cost retail for a normal game - I won't play multilayer unless they fix it (a la WoL days) and if I wanted story badly I could in theory watch Day9 play it.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> FTL is love, FTL is life.
> 
> SC2 engine is aged AF.
> 
> You should not be playing on hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign is meant to be played on Normal. Hard is for those poor bastards that find Normal too easy to be interesting.


I can beat all but 2-3 levels of SC2 on brutal, and enjoyed it. But last time in HoTS on the early collect eggs mission I got frustrated and quit, need to learn the timming (I've beat that on hard before tho). I need to go back and play on normal if I have to just to get further.

Now FTL on normal and hard, now there's a challenge for me, medium sure can be hard if u don't get lucky. Same with Master of Orion 2 on hard or impossible,


----------



## DoomDash

I still think SC2 looks great.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I still think SC2 looks great.


Needs higher res textures + proper AA + more particle effects + lighting effects.
All can be added to an engine. At least more easily than making a new one.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I still think SC2 looks great.


That was a good joke, seriously, I had a good laugh.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That was a good joke, seriously, I had a good laugh.


I guess I'm taking crazy pills. Just being honest.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I guess I'm taking crazy pills. Just being honest.


I don't see how anyone could think sc2 looks good honestly, its cartoony and old looking. Even when it was 1st released it had those issues. I'm not hating on sc2, I like the game (some days more than others) but grphics are not one of the things sc2 does right, even if you like the art style.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I don't see how anyone could think sc2 looks good honestly, its cartoony and old looking. Even when it was 1st released it had those issues. I'm not hating on sc2, I like the game (some days more than others) but grphics are not one of the things sc2 does right, even if you like the art style.


I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I'll admit I seem to be in the minority.


----------



## Alex132

Blizzards new style hasn't aged as well as its old.
I can easily switch back to D2 / SC1 and love the details in those games to this day.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I'll admit I seem to be in the minority.


I'll drink to that! We're all adults, we can agree to disagree.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV looks so freaking boring and outdated.


Really? I think it looks way more interesting than both WoL and HotS. Based on some games I've seen on streams the battles seem to last longer and are more micro intensive. There seems to be more small engagements throughout the game as opposed to single game-deciding deathball vs deathball battles. It looks like a step in the right direction.


----------



## ronnin426850

Some months ago I posted comparison screenshots between SC2, Dawn of War 2, and C&C 3, it was pretty obvious that even among such old games, SC2's graphics are objectively sub-par. These days they just add effects, and don't care much about details.
"So, models are low-poly, textures are low-res, animations are bad? Have some realtime shadows here and there, some ragdoll, some postprocessing, all should be nice and pretty now."
It's not. It's excrement with glitter.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Some months ago I posted comparison screenshots between SC2, Dawn of War 2, and C&C 3, it was pretty obvious that even among such old games, SC2's graphics are objectively sub-par. These days they just add effects, and don't care much about details.
> "So, models are low-poly, textures are low-res, animations are bad? Have some realtime shadows here and there, some ragdoll, some postprocessing, all should be nice and pretty now."
> It's not. It's excrement with glitter.


C&C 3









That was properly good for 2006 or something. Loved it!


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> C&C 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was properly good for 2006 or something. Loved it!


Graphics were good, but Tiberian Sun, C&C95, Red Alert, Red Alert 2, and Generals/Zero Hour will always be the best C&Cs of the series. What they lack in graphics they made up for with hours upon hours of fun.

C&C3 tended to be frustrating, then toss in the fact that somehow my product key no longer works for online play (and I've never given my key to anyone), it's really annoying.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I guess for the majority of the fans sake they upgrade the graphics. I'll be happy either way.

And yeah LOTV is way more interesting than HotS already. WoL it will be hard to beat the original excitement for the game. Like I said before, this thread, as well as the SC2 community in general used to be the most active!


----------



## VaiFanatic

I've been back on the first game playing some matches, and I still got it! It's a shame the game stat counter is always constantly bugged out now. Half of my wins end up being tallied as draws or not at all.


----------



## Cybertox

*StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void beta preview*


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> *StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void beta preview*


Quote:


> In Legacy of the Void, Blizzard seems to be shifting focus from big picture map management to amping up the art of the individual engagement. Beta players are rewarded for active unit management-or 'micro' in the common esports vernacular-refocusing priority down to unit-against-unit combat rather than the tidal flows of map control. The big stars among new units shine brightest under careful micro-management, and when deployed strategically they can dispense staggering pain. These are units designed to completely flip the momentum in a game, where a moment distraction on either side can take a certain victory and cripple it.


SC2 is becoming less RTS and more RTT with every change they make to it. I'm sorry to say that if this review applies to the end product, SC2 will no longer be the game for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> SC2 is becoming less RTS and more RTT with every change they make to it. I'm sorry to say that if this review applies to the end product, SC2 will no longer be the game for me.


What? How is it becoming more of an RTT? It's just going for more micro elements and more expanding.


----------



## Sainesk

I think macro should be more rewarding than micro - I have beaten GMs cheesing me at micro (probably cheesed their way there) and it is a brief but very intense test of your skills whereas macro is a longer endurance test with peaks and lows and is much less luck based. If I wanted whole games determined by 1 micro battle I'd go play a MOBA not RTS.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I think macro should be more rewarding than micro - I have beaten GMs cheesing me at micro (probably cheesed their way there) and it is a brief but very intense test of your skills whereas macro is a longer endurance test with peaks and lows and is much less luck based. If I wanted whole games determined by 1 micro battle I'd go play a MOBA not RTS.


I'm almost willing to bet that "cheese" was just aggressive openers, unless you're talking HotS warhounds, one does not make it to GM on cheese alone. Case and point: Gaulzi, the guy knows how to play standard but he opens cheese and transitions out if he doesn't smell blood.

So that 1 micro battle was probably pivotal because you didn't have the proper reactions, which either lead to your flat out loss or a massive slug fest where both of your economies are stunted. It has noting to do with mobas and everything to do with skill.

Not trying to be mean but when it comes to sc2, unless you're a pro who makes money there's a very good chance that your complaints are directly tied into your skill level, to that end I don't really support complaining about sc2 if we're not talking about Blizzard's awful attempts at unit design (the entire Protoss race) or their inability to make a good map to save 1000 kittens from a wood chipper.


----------



## Sainesk

I'm literally talking things like double gateway in/right next to natural and the like. Next to no one transitions out of that when both players are near the same level.

Micro is a very brief snapshot of your skill level. I'd be much more surprised at beating a GM in a longer game which requires maintaining high skill throughout a long duration.

I'd probably be better off aiming for a short game in games versus higher ranks except i'm not a fan of "cheap" wins so it's an amazing feeling when someone thinks they'll go for a fast game/you're not worth their time and then you crush them.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I'm literally talking things like double gateway in/right next to natural and the like. Next to no one transitions out of that when both players are near the same level.


When I was playing at top daimond that was a standard opener vs zerg for me, at the time zerg were playing very very greedy so I'd open proxy 2 gate, if I didn't smell blood I'd expand behind it while the zerg scrambled to get a spine up (usually by surrounding the building spine with drones, doesn't work so well when you target fire drones though). I certainly wasn't the 1st person to use cheese as a meta call opener and I certainly wasn't the last. I can think of a few GMs who had the same approach but with much better execution.
Quote:


> Micro is a very brief snapshot of your skill level. I'd be much more surprised at beating a GM in a longer game which requires maintaining high skill throughout a long duration.


Micro simply refers to controling your units and is integral to starategy games at any reasonable skill level. It's not a snapshot of anything, it's a core mechanic to RTS games.
Quote:


> I'd probably be better off aiming for a short game in games versus higher ranks except i'm not a fan of "cheap" wins so it's an amazing feeling when someone thinks they'll go for a fast game/you're not worth their time and then you crush them.


Cheap has nothing to do with it. Cheese is easy to beat if your foundations are solid. Think of it as a kick in the butt for not doing what you really, really should be doing every game.

P.S. LotV pretty much eliminates cheese from the game with the economy changes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What? How is it becoming more of an RTT? It's just going for more micro elements and more expanding.


RTT - unit control is everything.
RTS - unit composition (and therefore - economy) and map control.

The amount of thought you have to give to economy and map control SC2 is nothing compared to other RTS games. SC2 rewards muscle reflexes and guessing, while RTS is supposed to reward thinking. My


----------



## poroboszcz

Macro is still more important in SC2. You can get all the way to Masters with solid macro and 1A'ing your army. You wouldn't get past gold with good micro alone. All they are doing with the new units is increasing the skill cap and making battles more interesting.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> RTT - unit control is everything.
> RTS - unit composition (and therefore - economy) and map control.
> 
> The amount of thought you have to give to economy and map control SC2 is nothing compared to other RTS games. SC2 rewards muscle reflexes and guessing, while RTS is supposed to reward thinking. My


Guys with both reflexes and the better thinking are going to win.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Guys with both reflexes and the better thinking are going to win.


You're one of those guys that always answer with "both" when asked which one of two things he chooses, right?









- Jennifer Lawrence or Emma Watson?
- Both.
-


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> - Jennifer Lawrence or Emma Watson?


Heck yes both, you'd be crazy not to!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Heck yes both, you'd be crazy not to!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You're one of those guys that always answer with "both" when asked which one of two things he chooses, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jennifer Lawrence or Emma Watson?
> - Both.
> -


Most people would choose option C, both - at the same time.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Most people would choose option C, both - at the same time.


There is no option C! That is the whole point of the question, you have to choose one







OMG!


----------



## Sainesk

I think the general consensus is macro > micro but if there are 2 people exactly on the same level macro then the one with better micro will win.

Which is the way I hope the game stays, there's a good thread on the SC2 general forums about improving microing of units in LOTV should not mean giving all units abilities and basically turning every unit into a LoL hero.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I think the general consensus is macro > micro but if there are 2 people exactly on the same level macro then the one with better micro will win.


Maybe if you use only the sc2 forums as a sample population. Frankly though if you're going to form theories I suggest checking out teamliquid, a lot of very good players and pros go there. Not very many go to the sc2 forums.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm almost willing to bet that "cheese" was just aggressive openers, unless you're talking HotS warhounds, one does not make it to GM on cheese alone. Case and point: Gaulzi, the guy knows how to play standard but he opens cheese and transitions out if he doesn't smell blood.
> 
> So that 1 micro battle was probably pivotal because you didn't have the proper reactions, which either lead to your flat out loss or a massive slug fest where both of your economies are stunted. It has noting to do with mobas and everything to do with skill.
> 
> Not trying to be mean but when it comes to sc2, unless you're a pro who makes money there's a very good chance that your complaints are directly tied into your skill level, to that end I don't really support complaining about sc2 if we're not talking about Blizzard's awful attempts at unit design (the entire Protoss race) or their inability to make a good map to save 1000 kittens from a wood chipper.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Macro is still more important in SC2. You can get all the way to Masters with solid macro and 1A'ing your army. You wouldn't get past gold with good micro alone. All they are doing with the new units is increasing the skill cap and making battles more interesting.


To reply to both you I want to point out cheese can get you to GM. There was a guy who had an ongoing thread on TL.net that 6 pooled all the way to GM and played successfully in GM. Even when he was scouted. He had hold position micro down so well you would have to match it with the same micro or die. He had multiple pro players hating him.

NOW, granted I have no clue about his macro play. Just based on his understanding of the enemy openers and what to attack first he at least had an understanding of some macro. The thread was basically a case study of "Could it be done". He proved it I would say.

This does not discount the fact that you need to have great mechanics over all to play a straight game and hold off cheese too, which that guy had.

I would say that results will vary. A person that is gold with regular macro play could cheese to plat MAYBE diamond.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> To reply to both you I want to point out cheese can get you to GM. There was a guy who had an ongoing thread on TL.net that 6 pooled all the way to GM and played successfully in GM. Even when he was scouted. He had hold position micro down so well you would have to match it with the same micro or die. He had multiple pro players hating him.
> 
> NOW, granted I have no clue about his macro play. Just based on his understanding of the enemy openers and what to attack first he at least had an understanding of some macro. The thread was basically a case study of "Could it be done". He proved it I would say.
> 
> This does not discount the fact that you need to have great mechanics over all to play a straight game and hold off cheese too, which that guy had.
> 
> I would say that results will vary. A person that is gold with regular macro play could cheese to plat MAYBE diamond.


he was confirmed hacking lol. it was a season where 4 player maps were common enough that you got the jump on greedy builds. also 6p works better at low gm because ppl cut corners constantly.

also sc2 doesnt have much strategy. for example "deciding" to go blink stalker off 2 or 3 bases vs a zerg has really only one response from the zerg. the zerg cant "pick a bad strat" because frankly the games too figured out and battles are quick and decisive


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> he was confirmed hacking lol. it was a season where 4 player maps were common enough that you got the jump on greedy builds. also 6p works better at low gm because ppl cut corners constantly.
> 
> also sc2 doesnt have much strategy. for example "deciding" to go blink stalker off 2 or 3 bases vs a zerg has really only one response from the zerg. the zerg cant "pick a bad strat" because frankly the games too figured out and battles are quick and decisive


Confirmed hacking while testing 6 pool strat publicly? Please show some proof please, because that is just terrible if true. The guy was already six pooling to GM as a test. Why would he hack? lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, guys, I'm seeking to get back into SC2, do you have any advices?


----------



## espn

Last reply beforevyous was a month ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, guys, I'm seeking to get back into SC2, do you have any advices?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Last reply beforevyous was a month ago.


Yeah, I know it's a slow thread.. So?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, guys, I'm seeking to get back into SC2, do you have any advices?


Yep, just play and have fun. Put on cruise control in bronze and let if flow. lol


----------



## Cybertox

I wouldn't recommend going back to SC2, have you tried Heroes Of The Storm?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I wouldn't recommend going back to SC2, have you tried Heroes Of The Storm?


Yes, it is awesome, but I lost interest quickly.
I tried most heroes, then decided on playing Uther, Raynor and Tassadar. I played for 3 months but then it got really tedious and boring. I've been playing BF3 and Skyrim since then, but have been thinking about SC2 for a year now, it's been so long since I stopped playing, and I miss it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yep, just play and have fun. Put on cruise control in bronze and let if flow. lol


My question was more in line of "what are some good recent strategies, what is OP now, what are the new maps", that sort of thing


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yes, it is awesome, but I lost interest quickly.
> I tried most heroes, then decided on playing Uther, Raynor and Tassadar. I played for 3 months but then it got really tedious and boring. I've been playing BF3 and Skyrim since then, but have been thinking about SC2 for a year now, it's been so long since I stopped playing, and I miss it.
> My question was more in line of "what are some good recent strategies, what is OP now, what are the new maps", that sort of thing


Have you thought about doing something else apart from gaming? Getting back into SC2 is barely worth it mainly because it is a really saturated game and requires quite an effort to recover into your skills state that you had before leaving SC2. It requires a lot of time and consistent performance. I would wait until the next expansion before jumping back into SC2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Have you thought about doing something else apart from gaming? Getting back into SC2 is barely worth it mainly because it is a really saturated game and requires quite an effort to recover into your skills state that you had before leaving SC2. It requires a lot of time and consistent performance. I would wait until the next expansion before jumping back into SC2.


As a full-time programmer, father, husband, student, and music junkie, I already do plenty apart from gaming







But thanks for the 2 cents, you are right it requires effort, but I figured if the balance system positions me in a league so that I always have ~50/50 win/loss, it doesn't matter how much effort I put into it, and I won't take it as seriously as I used to do. Still I figured some info on the current state of the game wouldn't hurt









Oh, and it will be a while before I can afford LotV. Games are so expensive these days.


----------



## Cybertox

If LOTV won't have any major or significant changes I won't even purchase it. The awfully outdated engine is really starting to bother, it is something that I have noticed while playing Heroes Of The Storm.

Cannot comment on the balance state of the game as I haven't played SC2 since years.


----------



## DIYDeath

The economy change was pretty massive. It essentially invalidates cheese builds (as cheese now becomes early aggression) but that also means you're going to have to be more vigilant with your scouting unless you like getting decimated by powerful timings like Adepts into Dark Templar.

As far as balance goes, there's a few minor issues but overall the game looks balanced.

As I've seen others point out the major issue right now is the current economy doesn't make too much of a difference past skipping a huge chunk of early game simply because it doesn't reward taking more than 3 bases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Have you thought about doing something else apart from gaming? Getting back into SC2 is barely worth it mainly because it is a really saturated game and requires quite an effort to recover into your skills state that you had before leaving SC2. It requires a lot of time and consistent performance. I would wait until the next expansion before jumping back into SC2.


Dude, you're suggesting something that's completely contrary to what the guy is asking.









@ ronnin426850

In HotS not much has changed. Swarm Hosts are no longer so broken that they ruin games for players and spectaters alike. Other than that same old same old.

Protoss=deathball

Terran=bio or die trying (except in TvT)

Zerg=deathball+try to be as greedy as possible so you can win via attrition.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> The economy change was pretty massive. It essentially invalidates cheese builds (as cheese now becomes early aggression) but that also means you're going to have to be more vigilant with your scouting unless you like getting decimated by powerful timings like Adepts into Dark Templar.
> 
> As far as balance goes, there's a few minor issues but overall the game looks balanced.
> 
> As I've seen others point out the major issue right now is the current economy doesn't make too much of a difference past skipping a huge chunk of early game simply because it doesn't reward taking more than 3 bases.
> Dude, you're suggesting something that's completely contrary to what the guy is asking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ ronnin426850
> 
> In HotS not much has changed. Swarm Hosts are no longer so broken that they ruin games for players and spectaters alike. Other than that same old same old.
> 
> Protoss=deathball
> 
> Terran=bio or die trying (except in TvT)
> 
> Zerg=deathball+try to be as greedy as possible so you can win via attrition.


Thanks, helpful


----------



## Cybertox




----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> *video*


Wow, very nice!


----------



## RikkAndrsn

Anybody here to go to the WCS Season 2 finals in Toronto?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RikkAndrsn*
> 
> Anybody here to go to the WCS Season 2 finals in Toronto?


I didn't go, but watched of course.


----------



## Cybertox

I really hope that LOTV will have major improvements over the previous expansion (Heart of The Swarm), especially in terms of the game engine and aspects like graphics and performance. If I am not wrong, the game should be released next spring.


----------



## DoomDash

I have the beta, but I only played once.


----------



## Cybertox

Yeah but that beta is exact same HOTS stuff just with new units for multiplayer, thats it.


----------



## Anti!!

I understand the pursuit of graphics and eye candy, but I feel like the starcraft series is allowed to be exempt from this. I mean we loved SC and SC BW for over ten years and those graphics were PAINFUL!! However, the game was still satisfying. I really am still happy with the graphics of sc2. I think that is the last thing they need to worry about. Great game play and balance can last forever. Graphics will only last momentarily.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I understand the pursuit of graphics and eye candy, but I feel like the starcraft series is allowed to be exempt from this. I mean we loved SC and SC BW for over ten years and those graphics were PAINFUL!! However, the game was still satisfying. I really am still happy with the graphics of sc2. I think that is the last thing they need to worry about. Great game play and balance can last forever. Graphics will only last momentarily.


Oh, this topic again.

And I disagree again







The god awful graphics are exactly what stopped me from getting into SC 1 and BW.


----------



## DoomDash

and I still think it looks awesome.


----------



## Anti!!

Lol, well Ronnin. I like ya and all, but you are not a SC purist then. lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Lol, well Ronnin. I like ya and all, but you are not a SC purist then. lol


I guess I'm not. Sorry to disappoint, in the age of "graphics don't matter", I seem to be the only one who still holds the 80's ideology of "look at those reflections whoa!"


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I guess I'm not. Sorry to disappoint, in the age of "graphics don't matter", I seem to be the only one who still holds the 80's ideology of "look at those reflections whoa!"


Lol, I love eye candy for sure, but I want smooth fluid gameplay. Before anyone says sc2 isn't I beg to differ. I played it all holiday weekend long with no hick-ups what so ever. Smooth as silk.

I'll take eye candy on everything else. Like my racing sims? That has to be perfect. It is the whole point. I want to drive cars I can't afford. War games? Yes plz. Need real explosions, guns, vehicles, and sound. SC2? Im good, just good balance, and smooth gameplay to not mess up my micro and macro.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I understand the pursuit of graphics and eye candy, but I feel like the starcraft series is allowed to be exempt from this. I mean we loved SC and SC BW for over ten years and those graphics were PAINFUL!! However, the game was still satisfying. I really am still happy with the graphics of sc2. I think that is the last thing they need to worry about. Great game play and balance can last forever. Graphics will only last momentarily.


Not only does SC2 look awful and outdated, it performs extremely bad due to its outdated engine and improper optimization, that is my main issue. This game with those plain ugly graphics should run drastically better.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I understand the pursuit of graphics and eye candy, but I feel like the starcraft series is allowed to be exempt from this. I mean we loved SC and SC BW for over ten years and those graphics were PAINFUL!! However, the game was still satisfying. I really am still happy with the graphics of sc2. I think that is the last thing they need to worry about. Great game play and balance can last forever. Graphics will only last momentarily.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only does SC2 look awful and outdated, it performs extremely bad due to its outdated engine and improper optimization, that is my main issue. This game with those plain ugly graphics should run drastically better.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but I am getting easily hundreds of FPS. Dips to like 50 at worst.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I am getting easily hundreds of FPS. Dips to like 50 at worst.


50FPS dips on 5Ghz 2500K and R9 295x2 is Hilariously BAD









Literally every AAA+ graphics game runs better than SC2 on those specs.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I am getting easily hundreds of FPS. Dips to like 50 at worst.
> 
> 
> 
> 50FPS dips on 5Ghz 2500K and R9 295x2 is Hilariously BAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Literally every AAA+ graphics game runs better than SC2 on those specs.
Click to expand...

This was on my 690 - I haven't played it on my 295X2. Plus if the dips are 50, who cares? Blizzard optimization is very bad. I get dips into 20s in D3.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Blizzard optimization is very bad.


Hence, the discontent.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Plus if the dips are 50, who cares?


Everyone who paid $2000 for a 120Hz monitor


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Everyone who paid $2000 for a 120Hz monitor


Oh, yeah. Forgot nice monitors exist, they don't locally


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Not only does SC2 look awful and outdated, *it performs extremely bad due to its outdated engine and improper optimization, that is my main issue*. This game with those plain ugly graphics should run drastically better.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> This was on my 690 - I haven't played it on my 295X2. Plus if the dips are 50, who cares? *Blizzard optimization is very bad. I get dips into 20s in D3*.


I dont even...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Not only does SC2 look awful and outdated, *it performs extremely bad due to its outdated engine and improper optimization, that is my main issue*. This game with those plain ugly graphics should run drastically better.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> This was on my 690 - I haven't played it on my 295X2. Plus if the dips are 50, who cares? *Blizzard optimization is very bad. I get dips into 20s in D3*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dont even...
Click to expand...

Single core game for me (not for all it seems), and certain overloads of objects on the screen cause me to get sudden massive dips in FPS. 99% of it has been fixed, only tearing is left.


----------



## Robin Nio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Blizzard optimization is very bad. I get dips into 20s in D3.


As someone who got hundreds of hours in D3 I've barely experienced this. There is like one place in the game but I'm not sure if it's still as bad.
And WoW is also very optimized and running with no problems.
Same with Hearthstone (if it's a valid argument).
HoTs is running on SC2 engine and i've yet to run in to any issues.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robin Nio*
> 
> As someone who got hundreds of hours in D3 I've barely experienced this. There is like one place in the game but I'm not sure if it's still as bad.
> And WoW is also very optimized and running with no problems.
> Same with Hearthstone (if it's a valid argument).
> HoTs is running on SC2 engine and i've yet to run in to any issues.


I honestly don't think it is a wide spread as some think. I think some people have it worse than others. There are sooo many drivers in play and different graphics cards in use. It really can't be completely blamed on any one game.


----------



## DoomDash

I've had FPS issues with both D3 and SCII, with systems that should have had no problem. From my POV Blizzard games are optimized well only for the bottom end of computers.


----------



## Cybertox

Kind of ironic that the majority of Blizzard games are PC exclusive yet despite that they still run bad and even worse than some PC ports.Blizzard should really consider optimizing and improving their games technically.


----------



## Robin Nio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Blizzard should really consider optimizing and improving their games technically.


With all the money they make you'd expect more than what they produce.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robin Nio*
> 
> With all the money they make you'd expect more than what they produce.


Exactly. Couldnt have said it any better.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robin Nio*
> 
> With all the money they make you'd expect more than what they produce.


Why? Did you doze off for the last 10 years?







When you make more money, you establish a name for yourself, and then you cut costs, so you make even More money, and spend the next 5 or so years milking old successes. In some cases - much more than 5 years









There are some very talented people in Blizzard, and it obvious when you open any Blizzard game settings. Everything is sorted perfectly, there are detailed explanations on what everything does, and even which part of your PC it loads most, nearly all of the settings apply in realtime, and many more little details that make me happy whenever I tweak those games.

But these people's bosses just refuse to pay them what they deserve, and give them the freedom they need in order to optimize the engine









I believe in its basis, the engine is awesome. The fact that it can so easily be tweaked for different types of games is amazing. It also has the potential to run on very low spec hardware.
If Blizzard management spontaneously grows compassion for the players, and those amazing engineers are given 1 paid year to just tweak the engine, it will be gorgeous looking AND blazing fast.

Unfortunately, for now it all falls on some poor soul like me who works unpaid overtime to make sure there are at least some good things to mention about it


----------



## newbies

I basically skipped all of multiplayer HoTS, but I'll give it a shot after LoTV comes out and everyone starts on an even ground.


----------



## DoomDash

Anyone who knows me knows I absolutely adore Starcraft, but man it's not a very easy game to play @ 31 w/ 2 kids.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hence, the discontent.
> Everyone who paid $2000 for a 120Hz monitor


Considering the intustry stardard is 1080p and 60 fps that 144hz isn't going to mean anything beyond a few games and movies if you use SVP. One doesn't buy a Porche and then complain they can't do several times the speed limit in a school zone.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Anyone who knows me knows I absolutely adore Starcraft, but man it's not a very easy game to play @ 31 w/ 2 kids.


29 married with two kids here. 6 and 2 years of age. I understand completely.


----------



## ronnin426850

26, married, 1 kid, 10 months old







WTH happened, guys, we are all grown-ups now? When did this happen?


----------



## poroboszcz

31, one kid, 8 moths old. Can confirm playing SC2 got more difficult.


----------



## Cybertox

University student, no kids, summer vacation, SC2 still difficult as hell. Highest I have ever gotten was Diamond and that was two or three years ago, havent played much since. Even if you do have the time to practice and play it frequently its still very hard to progress, get better and reach the higher leagues. The thing that I didnt like about SC2 anymore at some point is that it felt like a job and not a game for fun, I had to remember builds, scout, counter builds and keep everything in mind and learn things by heart, sorry but thats too much for me. After some point you realize that you are forcing yourself to play and get better.


----------



## ronnin426850

I remember my parents saying "You're gonna have a family at some point, you can't keep playing computer games forever!" Hell yeah, I can!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> University student, no kids, summer vacation, SC2 still difficult as hell. Highest I have ever gotten was Diamond and that was two or three years ago, havent played much since. Even if you do have the time to practice and play it frequently its still very hard to progress, get better and reach the higher leagues. The thing that I didnt like about SC2 anymore at some point is that it felt like a job and not a game for fun, I had to remember builds, scout, counter builds and keep everything in mind and learn things by heart, sorry but thats too much for me. After some point you realize that you are forcing yourself to play and get better.


Yea, this is true. I have found that I do enjoy playing and stopping my opponent from doing what they want, but that stops at gold. lol So, I try my best to not care about losing so I can have fun.







Which, STILL I find myself hammer fisting my desk.

As a matter of fact, sometimes I get on my computer to play a game. I think I might want to place sc2, but I dread opening it. However, if I ever open it and play I ask myself, Why didn't I open this sooner instead of wasting hours thinking about it? The game is just so, so, frustrating at times and makes you dread having to work at it to be good.

Then there are times like last night that all things click and your game play was satisfying because you were hitting your timings and not falling behind in macro. (As Terran by the way. I seem to Auto Macro with zerg. lulz.)


----------



## DoomDash

hah its funny seeing all u guys ive been talking to in the thread for along time all with kids now, myself included. When I started playing I had no kids, crazy how times change. getting older is difficult.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> hah its funny seeing all u guys ive been talking to in the thread for along time all with kids now, myself included. When I started playing I had no kids, crazy how times change. getting older is difficult.


Yea, getting old is pretty lame. lol I MUST go to the gym now to keep from hurting.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea, getting old is pretty lame. lol I MUST go to the gym now to keep from hurting.


I think even some of the SC2 pro teams in Korea exercise daily/regularly though a lot of them leave physical activity to the discretion of the players, a healthy body helps keep a healthy mind which can help you play better. I haven't been to the gym in a while, planning to go back this month.

I barely play SC at the moment though - i'm really waiting for Legacy of the Void since getting better at Heart of the Swarm feels a little bit of a waste this late considering how much the game will change.


----------



## ronnin426850

I haven't been to the gym in 5 years, maybe 6


----------



## Anti!!

What is the best replay site currently? I want to share a replay with you all.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What is the best replay site currently? I want to share a replay with you all.


Can't you just upload it to dropbox?


----------



## ronnin426850

BTW I got approved for LotV beta. Is it worth it? I'm trying to keep my HDD as clean as possible and don't want to install things I'll play once or twice. If it's insane fun, I'll install it, but if it's same old same old, I'll skip


----------



## SirWaWa

dunno where to ask this but...
what RTS games have migs in them? (besides c&c)


----------



## espn

Does anyone use maphack? I saw people talk about it.


----------



## Anti!!

I could use Dropbox. I didn't think anyone was going go through the trouble with that though.

As for maphacks, no and why? Are you contemplating using them? lol


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> dunno where to ask this but...
> what RTS games have migs in them? (besides c&c)


Rise of Nations has them I think.


----------



## Cybertox

Going to the gym didn't help me getting better at SC2, I still go to the gym though but due to different reasons.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> BTW I got approved for LotV beta. Is it worth it? I'm trying to keep my HDD as clean as possible and don't want to install things I'll play once or twice. If it's insane fun, I'll install it, but if it's same old same old, I'll skip


Its a lot faster. You may as well throw every timing you knew out the window.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Its a lot faster. You may as well throw every timing you knew out the window.


Which is good for me, because I suck


----------



## DoomDash

I actually played a few games of LotV, I'm pretty impressed so far. The terran units and changes are awesome, and from what I've seen protoss too.

I'm not very good anymore, but if you guys feel like watching me if I play make sure to follow me on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/doomdash


----------



## FrankoNL

Protoss is actually pretty UP at the moment. Zerg seems to be the strongest race with the lurker and "roach on steroids". Protoss can't hide behind their wall anymore.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Protoss is actually pretty UP at the moment. Zerg seems to be the strongest race with the lurker and "roach on steroids". Protoss can't hide behind their wall anymore.


I wouldn't really know yet, just started playing and barely watched any streams anymore. I'm just glad they made the shield on the immortal a cooldown







.

But yeah I really like the new terran stuff... siege tank medivac so op, i know they will nerf it soon, I'm sad about that! New flying unit is awesome and very terrany, and BC's warping is pretty cool.

I might be mistaken but I targeted an opponents depot on the high ground with the lock on unit, and even though I couldn't see up the ramp I killed his depot... that seems really cheap.


----------



## Cybertox

Legacy Of The Void is now available for Pre-Order, the game will be released this winter would that be 2015 or 2016. There is also a digital deluxe edition which contains many goodies and bonuses. Personally I am not really that interested, game looks dated and nothing of value has been added to it. I might still buy it once it releases just to have all the three parts and play through the final chapter of the campaign.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Legacy Of The Void is now available for Pre-Order, the game will be released this winter would that be 2015 or 2016. There is also a digital deluxe edition which contains many goodies and bonuses. Personally I am not really that interested, game looks dated and nothing of value has been added to it. I might still buy it once it releases just to have all the three parts and play through the final chapter of the campaign.


It was announced last year that LotV will, in itself, contain all 3 parts.

Do you have any idea if there will be any price reductions for people who already own WoL and HotS?

It doesn't seem fair to pay the same price as people who didn't buy Part 1 and 2, and in the end get the exact same product.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It was announced last year that LotV will, in itself, contain all 3 parts.
> 
> Do you have any idea if there will be any price reductions for people who already own WoL and HotS?
> 
> It doesn't seem fair to pay the same price as people who didn't buy Part 1 and 2, and in the end get the exact same product.


I'd be surprised if they included WOL and HOTS campaigns but besides the first two campaigns I don't think we'll get anything extra.


----------



## Nowyn

There's a complete edition for 60 that includes all 3 parts, while LotV itself is 40, so that's it.


----------



## DoomDash

Man, I cannot stress enough how impressed I am with LotV so far. I mean, I don't know about the balance of it, but the units have some of the best micro potential now. The liberator Terran has is probably my absolute favorite unit. It's mechanics and the way it works SCREAMS terran, and it makes things extremely interesting! I plan on playing now, but truthfully I'm more excited about thinking what the pros will do with this stuff.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Man, I cannot stress enough how impressed I am with LotV so far. I mean, I don't know about the balance of it, but the units have some of the best micro potential now. The liberator Terran has is probably my absolute favorite unit. It's mechanics and the way it works SCREAMS terran, and it makes things extremely interesting! I plan on playing now, but truthfully I'm more excited about thinking what the pros will do with this stuff.


The Liberator seems like a Viking skin.

I mean come on, air vs air unit that can switch to ground attack? Can be made out of reactor? That's a Viking.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The Liberator seems like a Viking skin.
> 
> I mean come on, air vs air unit that can switch to ground attack? Can be made out of reactor? That's a Viking.


Yeah but they work nothing like the viking in terms of their ground attack. It's really powerful, huge range, but can only attack within a space that you pick. Enemy can see it, so they can just avoid it... it's prettty radical and it is extremely leap frog/positional based.

The funny thing about it, and I don't know if this is a design error, but if you lose your armory you lose the ability to attack ground. I was so far ahead of this guy, massed a ton of them... destroyed most of his army, but he took out my armories. I then couldn't do anything vs him, and kept killing my attempts to build more... and I ultimately lost.


----------



## ronnin426850

And sorry for the double post, but it doesn't even make any sense! It can't attack buildings? What? Like, that thing is just prevented by some divine force from just targeting its laser at a building and firing at it?

What is the lore behind this?

How can it NOT attack buildings? Does it use thermal targeting or some such BS? What about Zerg buildings? Those are alive!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> And sorry for the double post, but it doesn't even make any sense! It can't attack buildings? What? Like, that thing is just prevented by some divine force from just targeting its laser at a building and firing at it?
> 
> What is the lore behind this?
> 
> How can it NOT attack buildings? Does it use thermal targeting or some such BS? What about Zerg buildings? Those are alive!


I think what makes me more upset is that it cannot attack archons since they float a little..... I'm dead serious.


----------



## ronnin426850

Imagine next patch, we remove marauders, and introduce a new unit:

*BRUTAL MECHA STEEL RAPIST VIOLATOR*!

It's an awesome fire-breathing mechanical dragon that can fly if you upgrade it, fires rockets from its wings, machine gun from his eyes, and nukes from his ass, BUT to keep it balanced, it can only attack Overlords.

TERRAN POWER!


----------



## DoomDash

I plan on opening rax, cc, factory, double gas, tank, port, medivac, siege tank drop every game. Sieged tank drops are incredible....

Edit, I was wrong they do attack archons, I just didn't know what I was doing.


----------



## Sainesk

I'll aim for diamond random with legacy, jack of all trades (grand)master of none


----------



## DoomDash

Man, if the Viper spell Parasitic Bomb goes to the live version of the game as is, everyone will learn quickly how deadly it is. It's almost like a non-dummy fire storm, except works only vs air, which tends to clump even harder than ground. Don't mass air....


----------



## Anti!!

Well crap, now I am gonna HAVE to pre-order.. That is against my policy.. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well crap, now I am gonna HAVE to pre-order.. That is against my policy.. lol


Why? Are you in the beta yet anyway?


----------



## Mwarren

Hey Doom, do you think that SC2 will get popular on the esports scene again with LOTV?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Hey Doom, do you think that SC2 will get popular on the esports scene again with LOTV?


LOTV will definitely give SC2 a boost in ESPORTS but nothing drastic.

I might pre order LOTV but later on when the release will be closer.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Hey Doom, do you think that SC2 will get popular on the esports scene again with LOTV?


About as much as heart of the swarm did. It will never be as big as it was in WoL, just have to accept that. But as far as that goes I agree with naniwa:









I just want to give it one more run to see if I can get master again, and even less likely GM. I'm sure I probably won't, maybe neither of them.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Why? Are you in the beta yet anyway?


Noooooppppeeee. Not an offer to date...

I even tried the Windows equivalent to "apt get" that you would us in Linux. The Blizzard server said, sorry you do not have beta access. haha I have no idea how it even authenticated anyway..


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> About as much as heart of the swarm did. It will never be as big as it was in WoL, just have to accept that. But as far as that goes I agree with naniwa:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to give it one more run to see if I can get master again, and even less likely GM. I'm sure I probably won't, maybe neither of them.


It just would be nice if SC2 had a large scene like what it used to have with all of the large tourney's and prize money a long with competition.

It seems like it all dwindled down to small tournaments here and there a long with a few major tournaments once a year.

How is the Street Fighter scene compared to the SC2 scene in terms of popularity? I might get into the arcade style fighting game scene. It looks like a lot of fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Noooooppppeeee. Not an offer to date...
> 
> I even tried the Windows equivalent to "apt get" that you would us in Linux. The Blizzard server said, sorry you do not have beta access. haha I have no idea how it even authenticated anyway..


Well just pre-order man, I think you know the game well enough to know what you'll be getting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> It just would be nice if SC2 had a large scene like what it used to have with all of the large tourney's and prize money a long with competition.
> 
> It seems like it all dwindled down to small tournaments here and there a long with a few major tournaments once a year.
> 
> How is the Street Fighter scene compared to the SC2 scene in terms of popularity? I might get into the arcade style fighting game scene. It looks like a lot of fun.


Street Figther is pretty big, bigger than what I play (Tekken). Fighting game scene is an entirely different beast, you can only get so good online, the ideal way to play is in person. The Tekken scene used to be huge but online actually kinda killed it, that and majority of the arcades are now gone. Can't even tell you how many hours I spent at the arcade playing Tekken







.

Anyway, fighting game scene is still pretty alive, but like I said there is a lot more in person requirements to it.

and yes I have fond memories of SC2 in its prime, but I just accepted it didn't have that staying power. Personally I think the in game automated tournaments will be enough to keep me happy. I think those are coming to LotV iirc.


----------



## Sainesk

A little optimistic here that it will be more popular than ever since we will have the final/complete game, after that it'll just be some major followed by medium/minor patches so no worries of your skills/invested time being a waste until SC3.

HOTS just felt like an imitation of the game SC2 will become to me.

Could fall a little behind WOL but it'll definitely crush HOTS (standalone will also help sales).


----------



## DoomDash

HotS was poorly designed in comparison to this game already. The units in this game typically force micro, and require micro. In HotS almost every new unit was just another A move unit, some minor addition, or complete junk like the swarm host.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> HotS was poorly designed in comparison to this game already. The units in this game typically force micro, and require micro. In HotS almost every new unit was just another A move unit, some minor addition, or complete junk like the swarm host.


Swarm Host...junk? Did you miss the countless pro games where Swarm Hosts won the match? That's not to say they're good after the nerf, can't comment on post nerf SH.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> HotS was poorly designed in comparison to this game already. The units in this game typically force micro, and require micro. In HotS almost every new unit was just another A move unit, some minor addition, or complete junk like the swarm host.
> 
> 
> 
> Swarm Host...junk? Did you miss the countless pro games where Swarm Hosts won the match? That's not to say they're good after the nerf, can't comment on post nerf SH.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing countless tweets/messages from pro players where they hated on Swarm Hosts. Not sure the reasoning, but I think it was because they made the game extremely dull.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Swarm Host...junk? Did you miss the countless pro games where Swarm Hosts won the match? That's not to say they're good after the nerf, can't comment on post nerf SH.


From a design perspective, as said below your post everyone hated them and they made the game extremely stale and boring.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I remember seeing countless tweets/messages from pro players where they hated on Swarm Hosts. Not sure the reasoning, but I think it was because they made the game extremely dull.


They're only dull if you can't beat them so you're forced to turtle for 30 minutes, trying to get a counter composition up. WHich happens almost every game...but I'd consider that more of a sign that they're overpowered in concept. Free, lasting units from a race that batch produces as a core mechanic is a little silly. Hence the nerf.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> From a design perspective, as said below your post everyone hated them and they made the game extremely stale and boring.


I just started playing SC2 again and I forgot how much I LOVE this game. It's the perfect blend between strategy, mechanical skill, and quick on your toes thinking.

I haven't been following any specific builds but you can really overwhelm the heck out of your opponent dropping mines early on followed up with general medivac drops while building up for a big push.

I feel like Terran is still really strong when playing this way (aggressive early drops all over the place followed by a big timing push). If you let Zerg or Protoss macro hard without annoying them early on and throughout the mid game you're really playing into their hands I have found (just like in WoL).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I just started playing SC2 again and I forgot how much I LOVE this game. It's the perfect blend between strategy, mechanical skill, and quick on your toes thinking.
> 
> I haven't been following any specific builds but you can really overwhelm the heck out of your opponent dropping mines early on followed up with general medivac drops while building up for a big push.
> 
> I feel like Terran is still really strong when playing this way (aggressive early drops all over the place followed by a big timing push). If you let Zerg or Protoss macro hard without annoying them early on and throughout the mid game you're really playing into their hands I have found (just like in WoL).


LotV even better for Terran I think, certainly more fun.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> LotV even better for Terran I think, certainly more fun.


Nice, I'll probably preorder to get into the beta then.

The idea that tournaments will be built into the user face sounds really nice as well.

You use a mechanical keyboard right Doom? Have you heard of any mechanical keyboards that had keys that are larger in diameter? I'm thinking about getting a mech keyboard but want something that has keys that are easier to locate (bigger).


----------



## edo101

Shotgun, Zerg, and you....


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Nice, I'll probably preorder to get into the beta then.
> 
> The idea that tournaments will be built into the user face sounds really nice as well.
> 
> You use a mechanical keyboard right Doom? Have you heard of any mechanical keyboards that had keys that are larger in diameter? I'm thinking about getting a mech keyboard but want something that has keys that are easier to locate (bigger).


Yeah just a Razer Blackwidow TE. I'm not really that knowledgeable about other brands, much less ones with bigger keys... but I will say I love mechanical







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah just a Razer Blackwidow TE. I'm not really that knowledgeable about other brands, much less ones with bigger keys... but I will say I love mechanical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Why is that? I have considered them, but not decided either way yet.

Also, pre-order is what I may do.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Why is that? I have considered them, but not decided either way yet.
> 
> Also, pre-order is what I may do.


Honestly just the feeling and sound. Try out the demo of one at best buy.


----------



## Mwarren

Personally I'm a hunt and peck typer (although I have each key stored in my muscle memory so I don't need to look at the keyboard while typing.)

I'd benefit more from a keyboard that has much larger keys. Sometimes when I go from one unit selection to another it takes longer and I might miss the key a couple times a match since the number keys are so small. That can and has cost me games.


----------



## DoomDash

Can't say I'm in love with these maps in LotV so far! I don't know if they are the same as HotS, but they are pretty annoying. Some of them you can barely fit your buildings, which is obviously always worse for Terran.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Can't say I'm in love with these maps in LotV so far! I don't know if they are the same as HotS, but they are pretty annoying. Some of them you can barely fit your buildings, which is obviously always worse for Terran.


I haven't played any of them yet, but it sounds like they similar to some of the maps released with the original SC disc. Those maps were terrible for building placement and room. However, there was something I liked about that.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I'm 50/40 #1 in my Plat division in LotV. Hopefully Diamond soon, I'd say that's about where my current skills lie. All mech of course.

BTW, so dirty:


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well I'm 50/40 #1 in my Plat division in LotV. Hopefully Diamond soon, I'd say that's about where my current skills lie. All mech of course.
> 
> BTW, so dirty:


How do you mech vs P?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> How do you mech vs P?


Open rax 1 reactor, fe, factory, 1 tank, liberators into the typical hellion/tank/thor/liberator composition. It's a lot easier now than HotS, liberators help a ton, and immortals aren't just mindless 1A units entirely anymore. I've been playing pretty greedy early.

Though some of the all ins people are doing with the new gateway unit are pretty powerful.


----------



## DoomDash

PS: someone get on lotv beta, im so lonely.


----------



## Cybertox

I havent played SCII for over a year and from what I have seen nothing really interests me, otherwise I would have pre-ordered the game and gotten into the beta. No major changes, just new content which in my opinion is rather boring. All of that is very unfortunate as I really like starcraft.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I havent played SCII for over a year and from what I have seen nothing really interests me, otherwise I would have pre-ordered the game and gotten into the beta. No major changes, just new content which in my opinion is rather boring. All of that is very unfortunate as I really like starcraft.


What exactly did you expect? What is a major change? The entire economy is completely different, I'd say that's pretty major.

Anyway, DIAMOND







.

and I will say there is one map I absolutely adore actually, Dash and Terminal, asbolutely epic for splitting the map, and SUPER mech friendly in that sense.
http://imgur.com/lHPk4M4
http://imgur.com/NsDbCQq
http://imgur.com/u64SqRP


----------



## DIYDeath

Liberators look like good zoning tools and slightly op army/mineral line killers if used correctly.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> PS: someone get on lotv beta, im so lonely.


I am on the Beta, but I haven't played yet, you'll have to teach me everything







Also, my top on HotS was Gold, but I spent most of my time in Silver and Bronze, so I don't think I'll be much of an opponent for you.

What region do you play in, US?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I am on the Beta, but I haven't played yet, you'll have to teach me everything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, my top on HotS was Gold, but I spent most of my time in Silver and Bronze, so I don't think I'll be much of an opponent for you.
> 
> What region do you play in, US?


Yeah, I play on NA, but LotV might only be NA servers as I see a lot of Europeans and Chinese on.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Liberators look like good zoning tools and slightly op army/mineral line killers if used correctly.


They are absolutely my favorite thing about LotV so far. The mineral harass currently might be OP, not that it's hard to deal with after the mid-game, but currently it can be had a little too fast. The last patch actually made this happen, as now it only requires an armory to attack ground, where as before it needed research. I'm all for the research coming back as currently if you lose your armory you lose the ability to attack ground.

But after mid-game there is really no excuse on dealing with them.


----------



## DoomDash

3 games in a row getting smashed by Protoss air units (late game). Carriers so good now, and apparently if you don't have seeker missiles, Void Rays own everything Terran has besides marines.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 3 games in a row getting smashed by Protoss air units (late game). Carriers so good now, and apparently if you don't have seeker missiles, Void Rays own everything Terran has besides marines.


Yeah Void Rays are basically flying Immortals without the survivability. They counter anything with an armored tag. Carriers are okay, it's costly to send out your interceptors and make new ones though.

Frankly, maines chew up Protoss air pretty badly. I'm sure if you mix rines with liberators and vikings you'll beat most skytoss unit compositions.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah Void Rays are basically flying Immortals without the survivability. They counter anything with an armored tag. Carriers are okay, it's costly to send out your interceptors and make new ones though.
> 
> Frankly, maines chew up Protoss air pretty badly. I'm sure if you mix rines with liberators and vikings you'll beat most skytoss unit compositions.


Ah yes, mines. I forget they exist very often.


----------



## DoomDash

You Protoss players will love the Adept, it's seriously an awesome addition, and it's all ins are sick. The scouting and harass they provide is nice too.

Zerg players, you will love the new nydus canals, they are extremely legit now. From what I hear lurkers are absolutely brutal vs Protoss too.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You Protoss players will love the Adept, it's seriously an awesome addition, and it's all ins are sick. The scouting and harass they provide is nice too.
> 
> Zerg players, you will love the new nydus canals, they are extremely legit now. From what I hear lurkers are absolutely brutal vs Protoss too.


I've already played with the Adept. I love doing dickish things like rushing with 4 adepts and using the clones to split the zerg/terran forces between the nat and the main while I respond to each differenty, if they fall back I push with everything I have, If they stay at the front I destroy their mineral line and just expo while they're reeling from the economy damage.

I haven't buil a single zealot though, HotS made zealots nigh junk units. LotV makes it worse with things like cyclones, lurkers, liberators and even then it's role has technically been filled by the Adept. Its beefier, it doesn't have to run into close combat and it doesn't have enough range to not layer with stalkers/immos well.

I heard Blizzard is thinking of a way to make the Zealot more about damage so the adept can remain more tank-y.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I've already played with the Adept. I love doing dickish things like rushing with 4 adepts and using the clones to split the zerg/terran forces between the nat and the main while I respond to each differenty, if they fall back I push with everything I have, If they stay at the front I destroy their mineral line and just expo while they're reeling from the economy damage.
> 
> I haven't buil a single zealot though, HotS made zealots nigh junk units. LotV makes it worse with things like cyclones, lurkers, liberators and even then it's role has technically been filled by the Adept. Its beefier, it doesn't have to run into close combat and it doesn't have enough range to not layer with stalkers/immos well.
> 
> I heard Blizzard is thinking of a way to make the Zealot more about damage so the adept can remain more tank-y.


Yeah currently Zealots do seem under used, adepts are a lot better, and as you said way tankier. I cannot even believe how long it takes to clear adepts, and adepts slaughter marines early game if you don't have combat shield (2 shots). I'm sure they will think of something to make the Zealot more appealing, but zealots are still decent for offensive warp ins or extremely efficient zealot/templar/archon combos.

On reddit the other day someone made this big deal video about how zealots were not very cost effective, but the next day someone brought up some good points in counter argument. I also thought it was a bit silly the way they tested the zealot, and they also forgot about the huge advantage they have over lings with +1 attack upgrades too.


----------



## DoomDash

What do you protoss players think of the Disruptor? I think it's terrible, and a lot of battle.net users are begging them to try out the Reaver in its place. I've been asking for the Reaver since WoL....


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah currently Zealots do seem under used, adepts are a lot better, and as you said way tankier. I cannot even believe how long it takes to clear adepts, and adepts slaughter marines early game if you don't have combat shield (2 shots). I'm sure they will think of something to make the Zealot more appealing, but zealots are still decent for offensive warp ins or extremely efficient zealot/templar/archon combos.
> 
> On reddit the other day someone made this big deal video about how zealots were not very cost effective, but the next day someone brought up some good points in counter argument. I also thought it was a bit silly the way they tested the zealot, and they also forgot about the huge advantage they have over lings with +1 attack upgrades too.


For me I'd say the Zealot is mostly underpowered not because of its supply inefficiency but because it gets hard countered by too many things. In WoL I looooved doing a 2 base 14 minute 6 Archon 12 chargelot push with 1/1/1 upgrades. It was a powerful timing that punished terran aggressively for expanding without enough defense (which is like...every Terran player ever).

For the Zealot to be viable in LotV they're going to have to give it a modified version of hardened shield, that way mines, lurkers, liberators, storm, ghosts, banelings, tanks, hellbats, helions, etc don't flat out melt Zealots in their respective timings.

What Blizzard is thinking of doing is adding initial damage against the target the chargelot rushes to. Which, while nice doesn't really address the issue I mentioned. What do you think?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What do you protoss players think of the Disruptor? I think it's terrible, and a lot of battle.net users are begging them to try out the Reaver in its place. I've been asking for the Reaver since WoL....


It's another gimmicky all or nothing Protoss unit that will utterly destroy the lower leauges and drive more new players away from the game while remaining largely irrelavent in daimond+ except vs zerg. Can't believe no one has figured out that disruptors one shot a ton of larva. I've won a ton of games doing that and just beating the zerg through pure force since they have no more remaxes to rely on.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> For the Zealot to be viable in LotV they're going to have to give it a modified version of hardened shield, that way mines, lurkers, liberators, storm, ghosts, banelings, tanks, hellbats, helions, etc don't flat out melt Zealots in their respective timings.


I really don't have any thoughts on how to make the zealot more viable. What if they gave the zealot the adept ability as a research upgrade, and redesigned the adept to fit another role instead?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I really don't have any thoughts on how to make the zealot more viable. What if they gave the zealot the adept ability as a research upgrade, and redesigned the adept to fit another role instead?


As long as stutter step/animation cancelling exists (which it shouldn't, it's bypassing an animation cycle which is essentially working outside of the game mechanics and instead deals with the engine mechanics) I don't think it'll be enough. Protoss need an anti-light ranged unit that comes from the Gateway that either attacks fast or has enough health to make up for a slow attack speed.

The Zealot being melee is a massive, massive disadvantage unil charge comes into play - and early/default charge seems a tad bit op.


----------



## Anti!!

Wow, that was a fun read.

I hopefully will be purchasing the pre-order this week.
I will have to buff up on zerg to be worth playing against doom. Also, I would like to learn some legitimate terran play. So, maybe you, ronnin and I can all join up sometime to play.


----------



## DoomDash

I only know mech now







.


----------



## Anti!!

That is all I play as Terran anyway. I see no point in going bio. It is boring.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> So, maybe you, ronnin and I can all join up sometime to play.


I hope so, I have nobody to play with







All my friends play League of Legends...


----------



## DoomDash

Well I should be DoomDash#190 on lotv too.


----------



## DoomDash

Well I'm rank 20 in my Diamond division at 73 - 63. It's hard to tell how obtainable masters is, I do bad, I do good, and I'm playing people from masters mmr to gold. I'm learning a lot though, and I think a large portion of my losses can be avoided with the flaws I already know about.

Notables:

TvZ. The same opener with different timings because of the worker count still gives me a HUGE edge. I've been doing the same FE, 1 reactor 1 tech lab blue flame hellion push for 4 years now and it's still incredible. Now I transition into Liberators and a fast third, works fantastic. Weak points are people who have good defense, and go fast heavy muta. Also Nydus is extremely dangerous but its under used so it's not that common.
TvT. This match is pretty nuts right now, I just never know what to expect, whether bio, mech, bio mech, skyterran, drops, etc. It's going to be the hardest one to figure out I think. Everything is viable almost, and tech switches make or break this match.
TvP. Surprisingly I don't get this match as often as I would have thought, so I don't have any major comments on it. Protoss air is still good vs mech, but typically besides some all ins I've been doing fine vs ground armies. I'm guessing most of the Protoss players are in Masters, I think it was like that in HotS IIRC.


----------



## DIYDeath

Most protoss players stopped playing Protoss in LotV and switched to their off race, there was a flood of them a month or so ago but after being forced to mass carrier or all-in every game they mostly stopped trying. There's been threads on the scII forums regarding it for a while by both casuals and pros.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Most protoss players stopped playing Protoss in LotV and switched to their off race, there was a flood of them a month or so ago but after being forced to mass carrier or all-in every game they mostly stopped trying. There's been threads on the scII forums regarding it for a while by both casuals and pros.


Speaking of mass carriers, my god they are so good now....

And apparently LotV's rankings are a little off, beat my 2nd GM already lol.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Speaking of mass carriers, my god they are so good now....
> 
> And apparently LotV's rankings are a little off, beat my 2nd GM already lol.


Good until vipers hit the field. Then you may as well quit the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Good until vipers hit the field. Then you may as well quit the game.


Well Terran doesn't have vipers







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well Terran doesn't have vipers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


If T ain't got no vipers, then T better get some diapers









*insert bad joke eel here*


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well Terran doesn't have vipers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Give David Kim 3 weeks, Terran will get vipers, I mean they got a flying siege tank and protoss got a high tech baneling so they're not above reusing unit concepts. The beta has also been strangely not massively terran-biased which is out of trend given how imba Terran was in the last 2 betas. I half expect them to fix the flaw in their trending.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Good until vipers hit the field. Then you may as well quit the game.


Are you saying that Vipers are OP already? Is there always going to be a Zerg unit people hate?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Are you saying that Vipers are OP already? Is there always going to be a Zerg unit people hate?


Have you seen what Parasitic bomb does to armies of air units? They instantly evaporate because Parasitic Bomb's AoE overlaps. Say you have 6 carriers. You cast PB on each of them. That deals 12.85x6=77.14 damage per second for 7 seconds. Oh and that's spell damage so armor doesn't reduce it.

I've seen so many pros just sit there giggling after they 1st discovered PB. Nathaniel bust out laughing on his streat when he melted a protoss fleet with 2 PB when he was down on supply by 30 and had no bank.

Void didn't believe his stream when they told him to try out Vipers vs skytoss, at the very end when he was about to lose that game when he 1st got vipers he cast 1 PB, killed an army of VR and left 3 carriers nearly dead.

Parasitic Bomb really, really shouldn't overlap.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah PB is pretty ridiculous, but I don't think we have to worry about it not being changed.


----------



## DIYDeath

Totally, it's still beta. I expect things to be broken and I expect things to get adjusted. Doesn't mean I can't laugh at Blizzard for trying things that are broken on paper, broken in practice and then are left alone for months on end. In all 3 betas. xD

I kind of view the betas as different games that are not balanced what so ever, helps with setting up proper expectations and helps segragate the beta from the actual game which will be radically different (probably).


----------



## DoomDash

I just worry how much the liberator will change, I'm quite fond of it as is







. Playing so much







.

and if I play this much TvZ when it goes live, Masters here I come! TvZ is a breeze for me now that swarm hosts are junk.


----------



## Sainesk

Don't forget to log in and play 1 game before August 3rd to collect the SC2 5 year anniversary portrait (don't need to have pre-ordered LOTV). Can't believe SC *II* has been out for 5 years already.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just worry how much the liberator will change, I'm quite fond of it as is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Playing so much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> and if I play this much TvZ when it goes live, Masters here I come! TvZ is a breeze for me now that swarm hosts are junk.


It'll probably get either a damage or a range nerf on its ground attack. It's crazy that they can do 100 dps.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Don't forget to log in and play 1 game before August 3rd to collect the SC2 5 year anniversary portrait (don't need to have pre-ordered LOTV). Can't believe SC *II* has been out for 5 years already.


Thanks I'll do that.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Don't forget to log in and play 1 game before August 3rd to collect the SC2 5 year anniversary portrait (don't need to have pre-ordered LOTV). Can't believe SC *II* has been out for 5 years already.


Thanks for the heads up, the portrait however aint like anything special in terms of visuals.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Thanks for the heads up, the portrait however aint like anything special in terms of visuals.


You never did answer my question about what you wanted LotV to be.

Also, I'm pretty sure carriers will probably need to be toned down, UNLESS it's supposed to be the end all unit you cannot let toss get. They absolutely shred everything besides currently broken vipers.


----------



## DIYDeath

Sooooo...Stasis Ward works on larva. 30 seconds of no production is some nasty stuff.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Sooooo...Stasis Ward works on larva. 30 seconds of no production is some nasty stuff.


Liberators > Larva so hard. I think you might have mentioned that, but the other day I had them out when he was about to make muta's, and I killed all of the eggs ^_^.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Liberators > Larva so hard. I think you might have mentioned that, but the other day I had them out when he was about to make muta's, and I killed all of the eggs ^_^.


This news hurts my poor Swarm Heart.. along with the stasis ward..


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Liberators > Larva so hard. I think you might have mentioned that, but the other day I had them out when he was about to make muta's, and I killed all of the eggs ^_^.


oh wow, killing eggs with a liberator? That's nasty.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You never did answer my question about what you wanted LotV to be.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure carriers will probably need to be toned down, UNLESS it's supposed to be the end all unit you cannot let toss get. They absolutely shred everything besides currently broken vipers.


My issue with Legacy Of The Void is the following. There is barely anything new in terms of features, improvements and content. Its the same StarCraft that has been released 5 years ago with a couple of new multiplayer units and a Protoss campaign, thats it. No graphical enhancements, no performance improvements, no new major features, there is nothing new to look forward to. I have seen the prologue mission of Legacy Of The Void and those are even worse than Wings Of Liberty, poorly designed and just stale as well as generic. No new objects, units and map templates, boring as hell. Story is still as cheesy if not cheesier than in the previous campaigns. My main complaint is the absence of graphical and performance improvements of which Starcraft is so much in need of. Always when I start up SCII it feels like its 2010 all over again.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> My issue with Legacy Of The Void is the following. There is barely anything new in terms of features, improvements and content. Its the same StarCraft that has been released 5 years ago with a couple of new multiplayer units and a Protoss campaign, thats it. No graphical enhancements, no performance improvements, no new major features, there is nothing new to look forward to. I have seen the prologue mission of Legacy Of The Void and those are even worse than Wings Of Liberty, poorly designed and just stale as well as generic. No new objects, units and map templates, boring as hell. Story is still as cheesy if not cheesier than in the previous campaigns. My main complaint is the absence of graphical and performance improvements of which Starcraft is so much in need of. Always when I start up SCII it feels like its 2010 all over again.


Ah, I see. None of that stuff is important to me, just the game play. I play with hybrid graphic settings anyway (a combo of med/low ideal for playing well not looking pretty).

Things that are important to me are like:


Balance
Unit design
Evolving meta
Automated Tournaments
Hopefully more skins and rewards
Archon mode potentially
Depth
Campaign. I think the story itself is pretty cheesy, I'll agree with you there, but I felt the missions were extremely fun and varied. Love the branched tech choices you can chose, and the challenge of the higher difficulties.


----------



## DoomDash

I just love Terran, I find turtle Terran extremely fun, and most people are really bad at handling it.

Just look at the kills on that plantary (ALWAYS get the armor and range upgrade for your buildings late game, especially vs Zerg):
http://imgur.com/a/Gb2fl


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just love Terran, I find turtle Terran extremely fun, and most people are really bad at handling it.
> 
> Just look at the kills on that plantary (ALWAYS get the armor and range upgrade for your buildings late game, especially vs Zerg):
> http://imgur.com/a/Gb2fl


Haha someone was a baddie zerg and kept trying fail ling runbys. xD Guess they've never heard of Blinding Cloud, lol. 243 kills on a planetary...lol. I'm shaking my head right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Haha someone was a baddie zerg and kept trying fail ling runbys. xD Guess they've never heard of Blinding Cloud, lol. 243 kills on a planetary...lol. I'm shaking my head right now.


A lot of them were lings, but majority was broodlings to be fair. Still between all my planetaries I got probably 350 kills. He had 0 melee damage upgrades, and 0 air upgrades, making my PF's take very little damage. I was 3-3 with everything, had the building upgrades and range, and he only had 2-2 roach/hydra.

Zergs specifically aren't used to mech typically, they just expect that they can macro and not be creative and think that will work. It doesn't, Terran mech is extremely powerful especially once I get to a point where its nearly impossible to counter or break me. The good zerg players will find a way to make harassment work, they will find a way to stay ahead in bases, stay ahead in upgrades, and slowly pick me apart. People think oh, Liberators > Muta, so I can't use them... that's just not true. Even with all that defense there were holes that muta's could have picked off units/buildings, and forced me to waste money on defense in every single weak point. But since this guy didn't do that I only really had to keep the main gates defended. I had no fear of muta harrass, no fear of the new nydus worms, nothing. My main base could have been easy to access if he tried, even with all that stuff.

Also wanted to add, PF's are not gods, banelings work really well against them, and not even one single attempt.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> A lot of them were lings, but majority was broodlings to be fair. Still between all my planetaries I got probably 350 kills. He had 0 melee damage upgrades, and 0 air upgrades, making my PF's take very little damage. I was 3-3 with everything, had the building upgrades and range, and he only had 2-2 roach/hydra.
> 
> Zergs specifically aren't used to mech typically, they just expect that they can macro and not be creative and think that will work. It doesn't, Terran mech is extremely powerful especially once I get to a point where its nearly impossible to counter or break me. The good zerg players will find a way to make harassment work, they will find a way to stay ahead in bases, stay ahead in upgrades, and slowly pick me apart. People think oh, Liberators > Muta, so I can't use them... that's just not true. Even with all that defense there were holes that muta's could have picked off units/buildings, and forced me to waste money on defense in every single weak point. But since this guy didn't do that I only really had to keep the main gates defended. I had no fear of muta harrass, no fear of the new nydus worms, nothing. My main base could have been easy to access if he tried, even with all that stuff.
> 
> Also wanted to add, PF's are not gods, banelings work really well against them, and not even one single attempt.


Personally, I would have just waited for you to push out but before you got to my base and nydus'd you with a small contingent of air units if you tried to base race. Terran mech is very powerful if it snowballs and gets positioned right but it's so immobile it makes Protoss look like Usain Bolt.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Personally, I would have just waited for you to push out but before you got to my base and nydus'd you with a small contingent of air units if you tried to base race. Terran mech is very powerful if it snowballs and gets positioned right but it's so immobile it makes Protoss look like Usain Bolt.


Yep, that's some of the exact type of creativity you need.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yep, that's some of the exact type of creativity you need.


A question about liberators. If you havd a few of them spaced out over your base even if a nydus poped up wouldn't the units coming out just get mulched? Or is there's a down side to their AtG "siege mode" attack such as friendly fire?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> A question about liberators. If you havd a few of them spaced out over your base even if a nydus poped up wouldn't the units coming out just get mulched? Or is there's a down side to their AtG "siege mode" attack such as friendly fire?


Yeah if you have a bunch and they do a nydus really obviously, you can just put some liberators there and do really well. You can't keep up with a huge amount coming out, but typically its enough to deter them. The Zergs who were using them vs me were doing multiple Nydus worms at the same time, making it extremely difficult to cover my bases.

There is no downside to the ground attack besides being an obvious area that you can avoid. You'll find yourself constantly having to unsiege them to try and catch their units.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah if you have a bunch and they do a nydus really obviously, you can just put some liberators there and do really well. You can't keep up with a huge amount coming out, but typically its enough to deter them. The Zergs who were using them vs me were doing multiple Nydus worms at the same time, making it extremely difficult to cover my bases.
> 
> There is no downside to the ground attack besides being an obvious area that you can avoid. You'll find yourself constantly having to unsiege them to try and catch their units.


Cool. Once LotV comes out I'll have to try multiple nydus.

P.S. do you also find it hilarious that the Nydus worm screams when it unburrows, it's like it's saying "Oh God, I don't want to vomit anymore, Please...kill...me".


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Cool. Once LotV comes out I'll have to try multiple nydus.
> 
> P.S. do you also find it hilarious that the Nydus worm screams when it unburrows, it's like it's saying "Oh God, I don't want to vomit anymore, Please...kill...me".


I also plan on using the 3 ebay trick if I get the chance







.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I also plan on using the 3 ebay trick if I get the chance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Note to self: if you nydus place it 1 square away from the edge to prevent blocking.


----------



## DoomDash

One thing I still don't know how to use or make effective is the Cyclone. I just can't figure out its effective applications outside obvious things like ultra/bc kiting. I'm not too impressed by it yet.

Also latest community feedback posted, some huge potential changes:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18300016914


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> One thing I still don't know how to use or make effective is the Cyclone. I just can't figure out its effective applications outside obvious things like ultra/bc kiting. I'm not too impressed by it yet.
> 
> Also latest community feedback posted, some huge potential changes:
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18300016914


Cyclones basically kite everything and their mother to death. Think of them as Warhounds that shoot up with the body of a helion.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Cyclones basically kite everything and their mother to death. Think of them as Warhounds that shoot up with the body of a helion.


Typically I think I'd rather have other units instead though. I don't many clear advantages to having them.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Typically I think I'd rather have other units instead though. I don't many clear advantages to having them.


From what I've seen they're only really good in the early-mid game, late game, due to deathballs they're just too fragile and vision becomes too easy to deny.

Try them out as an opener vs protoss, they have an exceptionally hard time dealing with them for quite some time.


----------



## Cybertox

Is LOTV alpha NA only or is there also a European realm?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Is LOTV alpha NA only or is there also a European realm?


I think anyone can play, but its on NA servers.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think anyone can play, but its on NA servers.


Well thats unfortunate, the delay would be quite significant considering the fact that I am located in Switzerland. I am going to buy LOTV, maybe even the digital deluxe edition so that I will eventually have all the three parts and can finish the story but I really doubt that I will get into the multiplayer aspect once again.


----------



## DoomDash

I have basically no doubts now that I'll get into Masters. I'm already playing people who are Masters or high Diamond in HotS, and I've been crushing recently. Currently sitting at #4 in my Diamond division! This is good news! Playing mech in HotS even though it wasn't really extremely viable (at the time) is really paying off for me now. I just hope that practicing this beta will give me an even bigger edge in my extremely high hopes of getting GM some day.

As I've said a million times, I will never be happy with my time in SC2 unless I get GM.


----------



## DIYDeath

Funny part: I made top dai without ever once watching pros back in about mid HotS. Maybe I should get back into ladder again.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Funny part: I made top dai without ever once watching pros back in about mid HotS. Maybe I should get back into ladder again.


I watch pros occasionally, but I'm extremely stubborn so I don't play the meta, and I kind of just do my own thing.


----------



## Anti!!

Beta is installing now.

Please add me. Battle ID is in my signature.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Beta is installing now.
> 
> Please add me. Battle ID is in my signature.


Grats!

I can't wait for PB to be nerfed, jeeze.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Beta is installing now.
> 
> Please add me. Battle ID is in my signature.


I would, but I'm still scared of getting back to SC2









I put less thought and doubt into my marriage than into playing SC2!


----------



## DoomDash

Guess I'm not quite Masters yet. Struggling







.

Problems:


All ins are extremely strong in this game. You would think they wouldn't be but since we are encouraged to expand more often that means more risky powering.
PB is bogus atm. Broodlord/Corruptor/Viper is basically Broodlord infestor, maybe even better.
I sometimes play stupid on tilt. Need to play serious or just not play.
TvT was my best match up in HotS, but either I have mostly played really good Terrans or its harder than it used to be.
I still really don't like the design of Tempests... 15 range air unit with tons of health, I mean, it's certainly beatable it's not very creative or skillful.
Liberators are OP in certain situations.
Played vs a guy who went mass ravager/roach/hydra, Ravagers are REALLY good, and very well rounded vs mech. Not seeing enough Zergs try them out, but why would they with BL/C/V?
Cyclones still meh to me.
My mechanics feel solid again (not rusty), but now I need to improve them.
OL drop @ 3-4M is dangerous.
Reaper openers in TvT are so stupid. Even stronger now, make any sort of power build almost a BO loss. New nade thing is stupid, should be an upgrade 25/25.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I would, but I'm still scared of getting back to SC2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put less thought and doubt into my marriage than into playing SC2!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO









Don't let that nonsense prevent you from having fun. Ill be on and we can play. I suck at terran too. We can bet terrible together. Maybe Doom can teach us some Mech at some point too.


----------



## Anti!!

Not liking zerg after 3 games.. 6 minutes in and someone is 2 base and completely saturated with Lair feels like they should have a third too. Just seems like utter bull.. I am having to completely re-learn the game. I am having no fun at all. I would rather play WoL or HoTs right now. It is like playing with my arms cut off.

Edit:

Closed the game. Thought for a bit. Adjusted some timings and played another quick game. My mechanics are garbage because I feel like I am in another world, but the thinking helped me out some. Replay is in this folder. (Not looking for advise. Just sharing.)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x346e82p87f08qx/AAA0xRi3m4AUne1N1k7bgwlYa?dl=0

Edit:Edit:
- I also put a Mech game I played in HoTs a week or so ago in there. My Terran is like gold... or silver at best. lol I would like to know what Doom thinks about it. (Don't be too harsh though.







)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Not liking zerg after 3 games.. 6 minutes in and someone is 2 base and completely saturated with Lair feels like they should have a third too. Just seems like utter bull.. I am having to completely re-learn the game. I am having no fun at all. I would rather play WoL or HoTs right now. It is like playing with my arms cut off.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Closed the game. Thought for a bit. Adjusted some timings and played another quick game. My mechanics are garbage because I feel like I am in another world, but the thinking helped me out some. Replay is in this folder. (Not looking for advise. Just sharing.)
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x346e82p87f08qx/AAA0xRi3m4AUne1N1k7bgwlYa?dl=0
> 
> Edit:Edit:
> - I also put a Mech game I played in HoTs a week or so ago in there. My Terran is like gold... or silver at best. lol I would like to know what Doom thinks about it. (Don't be too harsh though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I don't have HotS installed anymore, not sure if I can watch it in LotV.

But with getting back into Starcraft, and even more so getting into new LotV, give it time. I always feel like poop when I play after a long time off, but already I feel a million times better (feels natural again). Legacy of the Void's economy will take some major adjustments, but I'm pretty used to that too outside a few buildings I haven't found the new timings for (like 2 port banshee).

I played archon with one of my friends who would basically be wood league, allowing him to micro. Was rough, 2-6







. I could have beat most of these teams by myself. Was pretty fun though, can play with a friend in a 1v1 type setting... it's a good experience .


----------



## DoomDash

My macro has improved so much now (for lotv's changes). Getting pretty good at it.

Now I just need to push Zergs before Broodlords/Vipers/Corruptors get out, seriously worse than BL/Infestor now.


----------



## Anti!!

Yea, I played Archon mode nearly all Sunday. It worked out and I kinda got used to the faster macro pace.

The problem is I went back to play some 4v4 on Hots and I felt like I was in a strange world.. lol SOooo different..


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> SOooo different..


Hey, then maybe I'll like LotV








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Archon mode


What's that?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, then maybe I'll like LotV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's that?


It's a ranked game that is like a 1v1, except you and a friend control everything together. It allows you to see micro that wouldn't be possible with just one person.


----------



## Anti!!

I have experienced that it is fun for a person who is not playing to watch the person microing too. My Wife loved watching me Micro. (Never thought I would say that...







)


----------



## DoomDash

This 1000000%. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/491649-the-curious-case-of-soos-macro-mechanics


----------



## DoomDash

It's really hard to tell how good I'll be when the game goes live, at least 75% of the players are Zergs at my skill level and that's my best match up. I don't even know if I'm 50% in TvT or TvP, so rare (stats don't record in lotv).


----------



## Cybertox

What happened to IM.Mvp, he stopped playing? Was one of my favourite Terran players.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> What happened to IM.Mvp, he stopped playing? Was one of my favourite Terran players.


Yeah I think he has retired. His success eventually fizzled out. The most dominate Terrans now are probably Maru/Innovation/Flash, but nothing like the old days.

Fun Fact, it's been like 3 years since a foreign Terran won a major tournament.


----------



## CravinR1

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=sc2%20mvp%202015&sm=3


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/results?q=sc2%20mvp%202015&sm=3


All that stuff is old or clan MVP.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I think he has retired. His success eventually fizzled out. The most dominate Terrans now are probably Maru/Innovation/Flash, but nothing like the old days.
> 
> Fun Fact, it's been like 3 years since a foreign Terran won a major tournament.


More like a depressing fact.. lol


----------



## DoomDash

gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Played like 20+ games today, lost over 85 points. Every time I think I'm about to get to masters I go on a huge loss streak. Do you know how frustrating it is to have been HIGH masters easily, to not even be able to make it in anymore? I remember back in the day I seriously almost NEVER lost to a Diamond player, casuals or serious. I remember playing on my friends mid-high Diamond account and getting 13 streaks.

WHAT HAPPENED?!!!! I can't figure it out exactly, but it's probably a combination of a lot of things.


I took tons of time off, everyone got better, a lot better.
I was already at my peak skill, at least my peak natural skill.
I switched to mech, though I think this is actually the best choice for me, I don't feel bio is my strong point or as viable as it was.
I'm old.
These big maps are extremely hard compared to the days I was high Masters.
Most strong Terran openers were nerfed into the ground. Example, queens are a million times better than they used to be since they have range.
Terran is a gimmicky race that's been pretty figured out.
Terran is too hard to play unless you're Korean. Seriously based on results of foreign Terrans it almost feels hopeless to ever amount to anything. I'm not a good harass player and those types of players have the most success.
Not learning enough from my games. I am writing down my mistakes now though. I think I can improve but old habits are hard to break, and sometimes I just plain forget.
How am I ever going to get GM?









I don't know much about it, but Allied Commander looks like it could be fun:
http://imgur.com/a/3TrX8


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> Played like 20+ games today, lost over 85 points. Every time I think I'm about to get to masters I go on a huge loss streak. Do you know how frustrating it is to have been HIGH masters easily, to not even be able to make it in anymore? I remember back in the day I seriously almost NEVER lost to a Diamond player, casuals or serious. I remember playing on my friends mid-high Diamond account and getting 13 streaks.
> 
> WHAT HAPPENED?!!!! I can't figure it out exactly, but it's probably a combination of a lot of things.
> 
> 
> I took tons of time off, everyone got better, a lot better.
> I was already at my peak skill, at least my peak natural skill.
> I switched to mech, though I think this is actually the best choice for me, I don't feel bio is my strong point or as viable as it was.
> I'm old.
> These big maps are extremely hard compared to the days I was high Masters.
> Most strong Terran openers were nerfed into the ground. Example, queens are a million times better than they used to be since they have range.
> Terran is a gimmicky race that's been pretty figured out.
> Terran is too hard to play unless you're Korean. Seriously based on results of foreign Terrans it almost feels hopeless to ever amount to anything. I'm not a good harass player and those types of players have the most success.
> Not learning enough from my games. I am writing down my mistakes now though. I think I can improve but old habits are hard to break, and sometimes I just plain forget.
> How am I ever going to get GM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about it, but Allied Commander looks like it could be fun:
> http://imgur.com/a/3TrX8


Remember that distribution is different now. I was high gold, I barely make it to silver now, even on a good day.


----------



## DIYDeath

Allied Commanders looks a lot like a variation of Warhammer 40k's The Last Stand.

I'm hoping in LotV Protoss get a way to deal with mass mutas. Currently they don't have any counter to it.


----------



## Cybertox

MVP and MMA were my favourite players along IdrA and WhiteRa.

The good old times of StarCraft


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Allied Commanders looks a lot like a variation of Warhammer 40k's The Last Stand.
> 
> I'm hoping in LotV Protoss get a way to deal with mass mutas. Currently they don't have any counter to it.


I played that mode so much, maybe even more than the RTS multiplayer part of DOW. For those that don't know, it was even released as stand alone.

Working with a team to capture points and survive/defeat waves of monsters/"bosses", I loved the customizing/different builds (and how unlocked gear all the way to the max level just had different traits/abilities that it gives so even gear near the beginning may be best in one slot for some builds). Some heroes could summon units (just like in the video) or even copy enemy units.

This thing has so much potential but they really need more than 3 heroes imo for it to not get old fast (unless they allow for a much higher level of builds, so Kerrigan can be a ranged assassin, Raynor a support medic, Artanis a dark templar build for example and a lot more). Wouldn't really fit in with the story but with only 3 heroes may be limited in the kind of builds/team compositions. This seems to be more of an army based mode/not a main hero that you use (besides summons).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> MVP and MMA were my favourite players along IdrA and WhiteRa.
> 
> The good old times of StarCraft


Yeah, Boxer, MMA, MVP, those were my favorites too. My favorite Zerg player was FruitDealer, the first GSL champ lol. My favorite Protoss player is Naniwa, now that MC is retired.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah, Boxer, MMA, MVP, those were my favorites too. My favorite Zerg player was FruitDealer, the first GSL champ lol. My favorite Protoss player is Naniwa, now that MC is retired.


Boxer was indeed another great player, totally forgot about him.

LOTV will launch this year as stated on Gamescom.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV will launch this year as stated on Gamescom.


You know, I kinda hope this isn't a goal of theirs, since I'm really hoping they take their time with the balance/beta. A lot of big changes purposed, I just want the game to launch in the perfect state.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> You know, I kinda hope this isn't a goal of theirs, since I'm really hoping they take their time with the balance/beta. A lot of big changes purposed, I just want the game to launch in the perfect state.


Its the third part of a 2010 game, the sooner it releases the better. Considering how small is the upcoming content including features and improvements, it shouldnt take long generally speaking. I hope the campaign itself is better than those awful prologue missions.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Its the third part of a 2010 game, the sooner it releases the better. Considering how small is the upcoming content including features and improvements, it shouldnt take long generally speaking. I hope the campaign itself is better than those awful prologue missions.


What was so bad about them? I don't have them so I don't know. I know Blizzard's ability to tell stories has gone down hill, stupid love interests in SC2, characters pandering to lonely nerds in D3 (Leah), etc.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What was so bad about them? I don't have them so I don't know. I know Blizzard's ability to tell stories has gone down hill, stupid love interests in SC2, characters pandering to lonely nerds in D3 (Leah), etc.


You dont have them? I thought you pre ordered LOTV. I havent played them myself but I watched walktrough videos of those on YouTube. What I didnt like about them is that the maps(levels, stages) featured already seen before map assets, tilesets and units, there was absolutely nothing new in them. And the related story was weak and uninteresting. Felt like I was playing the Zeratul Missions in WOL.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You dont have them? I thought you pre ordered LOTV. I havent played them myself but I watched walktrough videos of those on YouTube. What I didnt like about them is that the maps(levels, stages) featured already seen before map assets, tilesets and units, there was absolutely nothing new in them. And the related story was weak and uninteresting. Felt like I was playing the Zeratul Missions in WOL.


Nope, no pre-order yet, I was out of work until yesterday, so no money!

Well the missions got a bunch of feedback on battle.net, maybe some things could be changed, or those missions were just the least exciting. I just know even if its like WoL or HotS I'll enjoy it, really liked the campaigns despite the cheesy story.


----------



## Anti!!

I played the prologue missions. I think the only reason they were there is because they wanted to fill a gap between HoTS and LoTV. It basically creates the link between the Tal'darim and Amon and why Hybrids are being created.

I don't know that their main focus was to create a new experience in the prologue missions, but to have a few missions that help explain some of the questions before they are asked at the release of the 3rd expansion. (And just a way to get poor saps to pre-order. Which is not why I did it. I wanted the beta access.







)


----------



## DoomDash

I feel like eventually casuals will ruin SC2, but without them SC2 will die anyway.....


----------



## DoomDash

Back to high Diamond after my crash. Damn fluctuations







.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Back to high Diamond after my crash. Damn fluctuations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Where are you finding all of this time to play?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Where are you finding all of this time to play?


I don't start my new job until next week, and my wife does 90% of the stuff with the kids. I have it pretty good.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I feel like eventually casuals will ruin SC2, but without them SC2 will die anyway.....


To a certain extent, I agree
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't start my new job until next week, and my wife does 90% of the stuff with the kids. I have it pretty good.


Your wife is awesome if she lets you play video games instead of dealing with the kids.

I think I figured out exactly what I don't like about sc2. Everything is made of tissue paper, low armor, low health and everything does high damage. I'd be interested to see what would happen if every unit in the game got a 25% boost to their health/shields/armor before upgrades.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Your wife is awesome if she lets you play video games instead of dealing with the kids.
> 
> I think I figured out exactly what I don't like about sc2. Everything is made of tissue paper, low armor, low health and everything does high damage. I'd be interested to see what would happen if every unit in the game got a 25% boost to their health/shields/armor before upgrades.


Yeah my wife is cool. I warned her about me on our first date about 9 years ago now. I told her I'd ignore her for SC2/Diablo 3 when they came out, and I was already a hardcore tekken player at the time so she had a taste of my dedication. I honestly would probably be single if I couldn't find a girl who couldn't deal with my obsessive personality







. To expand though, she really actually likes her time with the kids.

As far as the low health pool, I think Koreans liked it that way, and that's why it's stayed so low.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah my wife is cool. I warned her about me on our first date about 9 years ago now. I told her I'd ignore her for SC2/Diablo 3 when they came out, and I was already a hardcore tekken player at the time so she had a taste of my dedication. I honestly would probably be single if I couldn't find a girl who couldn't deal with my obsessive personality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . To expand though, she really actually likes her time with the kids.
> 
> As far as the low health pool, I think Koreans liked it that way, and that's why it's stayed so low.


Sounds like you've got a keeper.









Not sure why Koreans would want their armies of bio so weak that a single psi storm or 2 colossus could make the entire play style irrelavent.


----------



## SirWaWa

stupid question...
is whispers of oblivion included/playable with the retail version?
any bonus' for completing it?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> stupid question...
> is whispers of oblivion included/playable with the retail version?
> any bonus' for completing it?


WOO I think only comes with the pre-order digital. Don't quote me on that. Though WOO missions will be free for everyone later down the road.

Not sure about the bonuses.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> WOO I think only comes with the pre-order digital. Don't quote me on that. Though WOO missions will be free for everyone later down the road.
> 
> Not sure about the bonuses.


hmm... I ordered the retail collectors
any CG scenes in this?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> hmm... I ordered the retail collectors
> any CG scenes in this?


Well yeah, of course there's going to be CG cutscenes.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well yeah, of course there's going to be CG cutscenes.


i mean in woo


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> i mean in woo


There are a few I think, otherwise just check out the walktroughs on YouTube. Thats what I did.


----------



## DoomDash

Automated tournaments start next month in the beta







. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3g9bc7/automated_tournaments_coming_to_the_lotv_beta/


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Automated tournaments start next month in the beta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3g9bc7/automated_tournaments_coming_to_the_lotv_beta/


I'd be more excited about that if LotV was in a state of balance where things were at least reasonable. I really, really think they need to button down the hatches and cram hard on fixing the placenta-covered design monstrosity known as Protoss before they start adding in things like auto tourneys, it's going to highlight how Protoss get screwed over hard in LotV. So hard that they still don't have a counter to mass muta/corrupter (HotS Tempest was supposed to be the answer before Blizzard decided to make the unit nigh useless).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'd be more excited about that if LotV was in a state of balance where things were at least reasonable. I really, really think they need to button down the hatches and cram hard on fixing the placenta-covered design monstrosity known as Protoss before they start adding in things like auto tourneys, it's going to highlight how Protoss get screwed over hard in LotV. So hard that they still don't have a counter to mass muta/corrupter (HotS Tempest was supposed to be the answer before Blizzard decided to make the unit nigh useless).


From what the Protoss players like incontrol have been saying Protoss isn't that bad in LotV, just needs a little work but it's not like its that bad. I've been watching Avilo off race as Toss and he's been extremely successful going carriers in all match ups, carriers are redic right now as you probably know. PB isn't as effective against it as I thought since carriers are pretty easy to spread because of their mechanics.

They do need work though, there power is kind of all over the place, randomly strong at times, and randomly weak at others.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> From what the Protoss players like incontrol have been saying Protoss isn't that bad in LotV, just needs a little work but it's not like its that bad. I've been watching Avilo off race as Toss and he's been extremely successful going carriers in all match ups, carriers are redic right now as you probably know. PB isn't as effective against it as I thought since carriers are pretty easy to spread because of their mechanics.
> 
> They do need work though, there power is kind of all over the place, randomly strong at times, and randomly weak at others.


At this point what I think is wrong with Protoss is pretty much what you said: too strong at certain points and far too weak at others though they do need answers to mass light splash damage air.


----------



## DoomDash

uggg.............

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3g9box/next_beta_update_removes_macro_mechanics/

I guess as long as its trial I'm cool with it. Disruptor could be cool.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> uggg.............
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3g9box/next_beta_update_removes_macro_mechanics/


lol

As a previous very heavy-macro player I gave up in HotS. I'm not going to even bother with LotV.

Although I think it will be more interesting to watch, I don't want to play it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> lol
> 
> As a previous very heavy-macro player I gave up in HotS. I'm not going to even bother with LotV.
> 
> Although I think it will be more interesting to watch, I don't want to play it.


Macro players are even better in LotV though. This just makes it easier for everyone though... I'm against it personally, but as I said in the edit, I'm willing to try it.


----------



## SirWaWa

question... not that i'm affected but...
for retail HoTS now that it's gone standalone, will it still install without WoL?


----------



## DoomDash

For the interview with DK

http://www.twitch.tv/blizzard/v/10153787?t=2h25m20s

TotalBiscuit on it:
https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/nerfing-macro-in-starcraft-2


----------



## DIYDeath

Well I've gotten my apm back into the hundreds and am doing pretty well with Protoss and Zerg again, my mass muta is freaking devastating, it doesn't matter if your composition gets hard countered, there's little micro tricks for mutas that turn hard counter units into soft counter units at best.

For example, mass mutas vs phoenix. Fly away from phoenix, when they follow double back and unleash a volley. repeat until the glaive bounce kills the phoenix or they're chased off due to heavy damage. Then get some corrupters.

Vs small amount of thors you just magic box. Vs high amounts of thors, you pick at the edges of their base so the thors can never move out all the while you expand everywhere and flood the teran with ling/bling while the mutas keep the terran good and scared.

We won't even mention Storms and Archons, basic micro on mutas make them trash units/abilities to deal with mutas.

I used to have issues with my PvT, now I do 7:30 warp prism drops, usually with Dark Templar and Zealots. Terran don't expect getting dropped earlier than they can drop, adding in DT is just insult to injury since they're pretty much forced to use a scan if they have the energy, which is mitigated through micro.

The removal of macro mechanics, like the mule means that there's no strategic decision between scan and mule. Thus terran would now have constant on-demand scan. That's completely imbalanced as teran wouldn't ever need to scout unless they're looking for proxies.


----------



## DIYDeath

2- 2 SoO vs Fantasy. Fantasy picked a map that was hideously terran favored and abused pathable high ground with tanks, a thor and missile turrets+medevacs.

That map should have never been in the map pool.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well I've gotten my apm back into the hundreds and am doing pretty well with Protoss and Zerg again, my mass muta is freaking devastating, it doesn't matter if your composition gets hard countered, there's little micro tricks for mutas that turn hard counter units into soft counter units at best.
> 
> For example, mass mutas vs phoenix. Fly away from phoenix, when they follow double back and unleash a volley. repeat until the glaive bounce kills the phoenix or they're chased off due to heavy damage. Then get some corrupters.
> 
> Vs small amount of thors you just magic box. Vs high amounts of thors, you pick at the edges of their base so the thors can never move out all the while you expand everywhere and flood the teran with ling/bling while the mutas keep the terran good and scared.
> 
> We won't even mention Storms and Archons, basic micro on mutas make them trash units/abilities to deal with mutas.
> 
> I used to have issues with my PvT, now I do 7:30 warp prism drops, usually with Dark Templar and Zealots. Terran don't expect getting dropped earlier than they can drop, adding in DT is just insult to injury since they're pretty much forced to use a scan if they have the energy, which is mitigated through micro.
> 
> The removal of macro mechanics, like the mule means that there's no strategic decision between scan and mule. Thus terran would now have constant on-demand scan. That's completely imbalanced as teran wouldn't ever need to scout unless they're looking for proxies.


I wish more people understood this about the muta. People always whine that the muta is hard countered by the liberator now, but I've played quite a few games that guys opened with a huge muta flock and my 4 liberators and a couple thors were getting completely wrecked from magic boxing. Even if they have thors or liberators you can still abuse their mobility and the holes in peoples bases.

The scan thing will be interesting, I'm really looking forward to this since I always hated not having a scan at the right time. I also wonder if supply drop down will become more of a choice rather than an oops I forgot, since cutting down 100 minerals could potentially lead to some stronger timings again. As a Terran I always felt a little jealous of Protoss and Zergs ways to get vision, always felt scan was extremely powerful, or extremely useless depending on how lucky your scan was. Sometimes I would have rather had the reliability of an observer or overlords/creep spread.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> uggg.............
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3g9box/next_beta_update_removes_macro_mechanics/
> 
> I guess as long as its trial I'm cool with it. Disruptor could be cool.


Anndddd that is why I don't pre-purchase.... That kinda pisses me off. WHAT IS THE FREAKING POINT OF STARCRAFT WITHOUT MICRO MECHANICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wish more people understood this about the muta. People always whine that the muta is hard countered by the liberator now, but I've played quite a few games that guys opened with a huge muta flock and my 4 liberators and a couple thors were getting completely wrecked from magic boxing. Even if they have thors or liberators you can still abuse their mobility and the holes in peoples bases.
> 
> The scan thing will be interesting, I'm really looking forward to this since I always hated not having a scan at the right time. I also wonder if supply drop down will become more of a choice rather than an oops I forgot, since cutting down 100 minerals could potentially lead to some stronger timings again. As a Terran I always felt a little jealous of Protoss and Zergs ways to get vision, always felt scan was extremely powerful, or extremely useless depending on how lucky your scan was. Sometimes I would have rather had the reliability of an observer or overlords/creep spread.


Yea, I am completely amazed at how many people i meet online who have no idea what Magic Box is. I am floored honestly. I have came back in so many games because of it. I have broken numerous turtle terrans because of it. This was all before their speed increase it HOTS and their health regen. People are dumb sometimes. lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wish more people understood this about the muta. People always whine that the muta is hard countered by the liberator now, but I've played quite a few games that guys opened with a huge muta flock and my 4 liberators and a couple thors were getting completely wrecked from magic boxing. Even if they have thors or liberators you can still abuse their mobility and the holes in peoples bases.
> 
> The scan thing will be interesting, I'm really looking forward to this since I always hated not having a scan at the right time. I also wonder if supply drop down will become more of a choice rather than an oops I forgot, since cutting down 100 minerals could potentially lead to some stronger timings again. As a Terran I always felt a little jealous of Protoss and Zergs ways to get vision, always felt scan was extremely powerful, or extremely useless depending on how lucky your scan was. Sometimes I would have rather had the reliability of an observer or overlords/creep spread.


Yea, I am completely amazed at how many people i meet online who have no idea what Magic Box is. I am floored honestly. I have came back in so many games because of it. I have broken numerous turtle terrans because of it. This was all before their speed increase it HOTS and their health regen. People are dumb sometimes. lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah my wife is cool. I warned her about me on our first date about 9 years ago now. I told her I'd ignore her for SC2/Diablo 3 when they came out, and I was already a hardcore tekken player at the time so she had a taste of my dedication. I honestly would probably be single if I couldn't find a girl who couldn't deal with my obsessive personality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . To expand though, she really actually likes her time with the kids.
> 
> As far as the low health pool, I think Koreans liked it that way, and that's why it's stayed so low.


Word of caution. My Wife is great too. She did the same thing. I used to play sc2, WoW, D3, etc all the time. She would even play with me, but when I spent every night playing and focusing on getting better my son became an issue when he took my attention from what I wanted to focus on. In return he grew so fast. I hardly remember what he was like from ages 1-4. Now he is about to be 7 and I am having to learn him all over again. Games are fun, but it is easy to forget what is important. So, my point is don't let the wife do it all and be ok with here handling the kids. At least make that 90% be 60% and you carry the other 40%. I promise you wont regret it. Especially the amount that I regret it now...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Anndddd that is why I don't pre-purchase.... That kinda pisses me off. WHAT IS THE FREAKING POINT OF STARCRAFT WITHOUT MICRO MECHANICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It says "mAcro", not "mIcro".


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Anndddd that is why I don't pre-purchase.... That kinda pisses me off. WHAT IS THE FREAKING POINT OF STARCRAFT WITHOUT MICRO MECHANICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Yea, I am completely amazed at how many people i meet online who have no idea what Magic Box is. I am floored honestly. I have came back in so many games because of it. I have broken numerous turtle terrans because of it. This was all before their speed increase it HOTS and their health regen. People are dumb sometimes. lol
> Word of caution. My Wife is great too. She did the same thing. I used to play sc2, WoW, D3, etc all the time. She would even play with me, but when I spent every night playing and focusing on getting better my son became an issue when he took my attention from what I wanted to focus on. In return he grew so fast. I hardly remember what he was like from ages 1-4. Now he is about to be 7 and I am having to learn him all over again. Games are fun, but it is easy to forget what is important. So, my point is don't let the wife do it all and be ok with here handling the kids. At least make that 90% be 60% and you carry the other 40%. I promise you wont regret it. Especially the amount that I regret it now...


Well, as I said it at least deserves a trail. David Kim specifically mentioned that macro is harder in LotV, which is true. Now that macro is harder in general, removing a couple of these macro mechanics that are not always choices could help balance the harder to manage macro mechanics of legacy of the void.

As far as the kids thing, you don't have to worry, I still spend plenty of time with them, and I can only imagine how much more fun it will be as they start getting older and into things. My wife is kind of funny, she actually would get jealous if I did anything alone with the kids. I offer to take my son to the park so she can get a break or do something productive but she refuses since she doesn't want us having any fun without her







.


----------



## Anti!!

So, how can they say IEM is live if it isn't... Some one just gave me a huge spoiler online..


----------



## Cybertox

Totally forgot about Bomber, he is such a beast. Currently playing against Trust in GSl Code S.

http://www.twitch.tv/ogamingsc2

Maru Vs Classic coming up next.


----------



## DoomDash

It's hard to tell if mech is imbalanced (vs Zerg) in HotS or not because reddit is like 75% Zergs, and that's where I'm getting this impression. I know they nerfed the swarm host, I could see mech being a little too good without something to replace it I guess.

I actually ran in to two players using the new swarm hosts in LotV, they are still really really good and super annoying. I'm honestly not even sure how to deal with them yet. This one guy in particular I destroyed all of his bases but he kept making more and moving his swarm hosts around which I couldn't catch, eventually whittling away at my forces and bases. It was extremely upsetting to still lose to the free units, but I'll admit I just don't know how to deal with it yet now that raven's are pretty garbage.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's hard to tell if mech is imbalanced (vs Zerg) in HotS or not because reddit is like 75% Zergs, and that's where I'm getting this impression. I know they nerfed the swarm host, I could see mech being a little too good without something to replace it I guess.
> 
> I actually ran in to two players using the new swarm hosts in LotV, they are still really really good and super annoying. I'm honestly not even sure how to deal with them yet. This one guy in particular I destroyed all of his bases but he kept making more and moving his swarm hosts around which I couldn't catch, eventually whittling away at my forces and bases. It was extremely upsetting to still lose to the free units, but I'll admit I just don't know how to deal with it yet now that raven's are pretty garbage.


Wouldn't Thors help with that? If the locusts are flying then the thors should volley them down before they get close. Maybe add in some hellbat+medivac support in case the locusts land, that way you don't lose expensive Thors and only lose easily replacable and spammable Hellbats?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Wouldn't Thors help with that? If the locusts are flying then the thors should volley them down before they get close. Maybe add in some hellbat+medivac support in case the locusts land, that way you don't lose expensive Thors and only lose easily replacable and spammable Hellbats?


I didn't have medivacs, but I did have a bunch scv's with repair, but it just wasn't fast enough. Thor's can shoot down the locusts pretty well if you have a bunch, but if its an open map the Zerg can plan it so the locusts have already landed.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It says "mAcro", not "mIcro".


Heh, typo. I meant Macro.


----------



## DoomDash

I've seen a few cool Cyclone situations now. I still am not sure if they are often ideal, but they have some neat application. I really want to test them vs voidrays. I scanned a guy massing VR's today and I went mass vikings to counter, and I got destroyed. I think cyclones might have the potential to beat them though, as long as you stay away.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I've seen a few cool Cyclone situations now. I still am not sure if they are often ideal, but they have some neat application. I really want to test them vs voidrays. I scanned a guy massing VR's today and I went mass vikings to counter, and I got destroyed. I think cyclones might have the potential to beat them though, as long as you stay away.


It would be tough because Void Rays decimate armored units and have a long leash range+are flying. The micro would be tricky but doable. You'd be better off pumping marines vs VR.

With the new (lack of) macro mechanics Ive noticed a nasty opener for Zerg 4x FE behind mass queens+spines/spores and counter build real units once the opponent has enough of a force to be shoehorned. Just need to get that creep spread going like mad so you can get map control early.

Just land your money transfuses to keep your queens alive and they'll hold off any agression until the late game. Splash isn't even that effective vs them due to their fat unit size.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> It would be tough because Void Rays decimate armored units and have a long leash range+are flying. You'd be better off pumping marines vs VR.


It really just depends on where you engage. If you have room I believe the void rays can't keep up and will be killed if you can kite. 13 range plus almost 2 move speed faster.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It really just depends on where you engage. If you have room I believe the void rays can't keep up and will be killed if you can kite. 13 range plus almost 2 move speed faster.


Im more concerned about the terrain playing against Cyclones, if they get within 9 range, they're instantly dead. Void Rays users also tend to hug the edges of the map to prevent good surrounds from happening. We learned that in WoL when marines would just mulch all our air units,


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Im more concerned about the terrain playing against Cyclones, if they get within 9 range, they're instantly dead. Void Rays users also tend to hug the edges of the map to prevent good surrounds from happening. We learned that in WoL when marines would just mulch all our air units,


The concept of marines with ARs bringing down spaceships is wrong to begin with. Armor type has no use in SC2 it seems, except as a bonus damage mechanic, for the hard counters we all love.


----------



## Cybertox

Marines are the best counters to Void Rays, just pump out Marines and upgrades along with Medivacs and those Void Rays are going to melt. I dont know how it is in LOTV but in other expansions massing Void Rays was never a viable strategy, maybe in the lower leagues but never in the higher ones.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Marines are the best counters to Void Rays, just pump out Marines and upgrades along with Medivacs and those Void Rays are going to melt. I dont know how it is in LOTV but in other expansions massing Void Rays was never a viable strategy, maybe in the lower leagues but never in the higher ones.


Depends on the map I'd say. Void Rays are easily my weapon of choice for any base trade scenario on maps where land units need to go long routes.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The concept of marines with ARs bringing down spaceships is wrong to begin with. Armor type has no use in SC2 it seems, except as a bonus damage mechanic, for the hard counters we all love.


I'd prefer a warcraft 3 armor system strapped onto sc2 myself.

Attack Types

Normal
Normal attacks do extra damage against Medium armor, and reduced damage to Fortified armor.

Piercing
Piercing attacks do extra damage to Light armor, and reduced damage to Fortified, Medium armor.

Siege
Siege attacks do extra damage to Fortified armor, and reduced damage to Medium armor.

Spell Damage
Magic attacks do extra damage against Light and Heavy armor, and reduced damage to Medium, Fortified armor.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Marines are the best counters to Void Rays, just pump out Marines and upgrades along with Medivacs and those Void Rays are going to melt. I dont know how it is in LOTV but in other expansions massing Void Rays was never a viable strategy, maybe in the lower leagues but never in the higher ones.


Works extremely well vs mech.... EXTREMELY (excluding mines so far). I don't think anything in the game melts armored faster, not even mass immortals.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Depends on the map I'd say. Void Rays are easily my weapon of choice for any base trade scenario on maps where land units need to go long routes.


Both Medivacs and steamed Marines are faster than Void Rays, so if you have mass void Rays and your opponent has only marines at this point in time then you are in the wrong league.


----------



## DIYDeath

Tried some more LotV zerg, was doing multiple remaxes @ 15 mins. 100 craqckling runbys, sniping CCs and ignoring the armies until they all just die, then I do it again 2x more before I remax into something to kill the army (80 3-3 mutas) and I had creep spread over 3/4 of the map.

The only real trick with zerg now is figuring out how greedy you can open, I've found that you can skip your 1st ovie and FE 3x before getting your 2nd ovie and pool, you'll have 4 bases with a spawning pool and a good 35+ drones by 3 mins.


----------



## DoomDash

I know it's nothing special but this is my favorite way to deal with banshees. http://gfycat.com/TimelyClosedAfricanpiedkingfisher


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I know it's nothing special but this is my favorite way to deal with banshees. http://gfycat.com/TimelyClosedAfricanpiedkingfisher


What a way to deny banshees, gj.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I know it's nothing special but this is my favorite way to deal with banshees. http://gfycat.com/TimelyClosedAfricanpiedkingfisher


That's really nice!


----------



## DoomDash

2 things about Protoss.

1: Carriers are by far the best thing in LotV. The only way you can lose with carriers now PvT is if the Terran some how gets a lucky bunch of Widow mines off, and has the vikings to clear the carriers, which is EXTREMELY unlikely. I'm pretty sure they will be nerfed once lotv is figured out... everything MELTs, and the range at which everything melts is the huge problem. I keep hoping the day of scary BC's comes back but I guess it's going to be exclusively scary carriers.

2: If you guys want a strong all in, open 1 voidray adept vs Terrans who wall in. Use the void to target down a depot, and just adept right in when the depot is down. This will kill basically any Terran who built a CC unless he opens like 3 rax or something stupid, or if he was thinking it was a blink all in. To defend it as Terran you'd have to scout it, set up your ramp differently (I had a bunker there which did not work), or treat it like a blink all in and build 3 bunkers or so.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 2 things about Protoss.
> 
> 1: Carriers are by far the best thing in LotV. The only way you can lose with carriers now PvT is if the Terran some how gets a lucky bunch of Widow mines off, and has the vikings to clear the carriers, which is EXTREMELY unlikely. I'm pretty sure they will be nerfed once lotv is figured out... everything MELTs, and the range at which everything melts is the huge problem. I keep hoping the day of scary BC's comes back but I guess it's going to be exclusively scary carriers.
> 
> 2: If you guys want a strong all in, open 1 voidray adept vs Terrans who wall in. Use the void to target down a depot, and just adept right in when the depot is down. This will kill basically any Terran who built a CC unless he opens like 3 rax or something stupid, or if he was thinking it was a blink all in. To defend it as Terran you'd have to scout it, set up your ramp differently (I had a bunker there which did not work), or treat it like a blink all in and build 3 bunkers or so.


I've been doing a variant of 2) for a while now. Zealot Void Ray opener, or I'll attack the wall with my 1st zealot, stalker and msc. Terrans don't perticularily like it when you do either of those things.

Adding adepts is just mean, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I've been doing a variant of 2) for a while now. Zealot Void Ray opener, or I'll attack the wall with my 1st zealot, stalker and msc. Terrans don't perticularily like it when you do either of those things.
> 
> Adding adepts is just mean, lol.


Yeah the bunker would work against your build, but not this. They can't go out to kill the void ray because the adepts 2 shot marines, and once the depot is down they can just use the ability to completely bypass the bunker (and tank in my case) right into your main. It's super dirty, I'm sure we'll be seeing this very often once everyone learns about it. I guess if you wanted to stop it you could blindly build a viking.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah the bunker would work against your build, but not this. They can't go out to kill the void ray because the adepts 2 shot marines, and once the depot is down they can just use the ability to completely bypass the bunker (and tank in my case) right into your main. It's super dirty, I'm sure we'll be seeing this very often once everyone learns about it. I guess if you wanted to stop it you could blindly build a viking.


A single viking will never, ever beat a Void Ray, even when micro'd due to leash range and Void Rays making anything with an armored tag a liability.

Yeah Adepts are great. I frequently use and cancel shades to split my enemies army before I attack. It's a dirty trick. Beatable but dirty. Just like Blink all-in.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> A single viking will never, ever beat a Void Ray, even when micro'd due to leash range and Void Rays making anything with an armored tag a liability.
> 
> Yeah Adepts are great. I frequently use and cancel shades to split my enemies army before I attack. It's a dirty trick. Beatable but dirty. Just like Blink all-in.


Yeah I wasn't implying you'd engage the void ray outside the comfort of your bunker. Basically I would attack it out of range, and fall back to the bunker I built at the ramp whenever the void ray tried to engage.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I wasn't implying you'd engage the void ray outside the comfort of your bunker. Basically I would attack it out of range, and fall back to the bunker I built at the ramp whenever the void ray tried to engage.


If the viking can attack the vr, it will die. You'd have to park it over the bunker and hold position. Any attempt to micro a viking vs a vr=dead viking. They can't kite vr. When they try the leash range n the vr gives a huge advantage since it stretches to 9.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If the viking can attack the vr, it will die. You'd have to park it over the bunker and hold position. Any attempt to micro a viking vs a vr=dead viking. They can't kite vr. When they try the leash range n the vr gives a huge advantage since it stretches to 9.


Yeah I'm still not saying I would kite, just get within range, as close to the bunker as possible.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I'm still not saying I would kite, just get within range, as close to the bunker as possible.


Yeah it's a tricky situation. One small mistep with that defense and it would fall apart at the seams.


----------



## ronnin426850

I played my first beta game yesterday, PvP, and I won







It's been a while since I won in SC







Maybe it's due to my new mouse, CM Devastator MS2K, I find it very StarCraft-y


----------



## CravinR1

My 5:30 warp pvp still works. Though much harder with mothershio


----------



## Anti!!

Well, any of you actually going to be online Saturday night? CST? I bought this and no one wants to play.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Well, any of you actually going to be online Saturday night? CST? I bought this and no one wants to play.


I can be.

I was just playing, could have gone up to rank 4 in my diamond division with another win and battle.net disconnects!!! Lame!


----------



## DoomDash

So close, afraid to play now afraid I'll tank it again lol. I want Masters sooo bad.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> afraid to play now


The perfect short description for SC2


----------



## Cybertox

I am actually back to playing Starcraft, played some ladder but got placed into Gold league for some reason, gonna have to climb back to Platinum. I have a 2.0 win rate so I should have been placed higher. Enjoying the game actually, now I decided to take a rest from multiplayer and play some single player campaign. Completed all the challenges on Gold yesterday and got the Spectre portrait, for some reason I had two challenges on silver, made them gold yesterday and didnt even need many attempts to do so. Now I am playing the WOL campaign on brutal, 20 missions completed, 9 more to go. Its fun, I will most probably end up buying the Digital Deluxe Edition of LOTV however there are many things that I do not like about it and it mainly concerns multiplayer balance.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I am actually back to playing Starcraft, played some ladder but got placed into Gold league for some reason, gonna have to climb back to Platinum. I have a 2.0 win rate so I should have been placed higher. Enjoying the game actually, now I decided to take a rest from multiplayer and play some single player campaign. Completed all the challenges on Gold yesterday and got the Spectre portrait, for some reason I had two challenges on silver, made them gold yesterday and didnt even need many attempts to do so. Now I am playing the WOL campaign on brutal, 20 missions completed, 9 more to go. Its fun, I will most probably end up buying the Digital Deluxe Edition of LOTV however there are many things that I do not like about it and it mainly concerns multiplayer balance.


Dont worry I placed into gold too.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I will most probably end up buying the Digital Deluxe Edition of LOTV however there are many things that I do not like about it and it mainly concerns multiplayer balance.


This makes no sense to me. So you will not only buy a game that you do not like many things about, but you will also give extra money for the digital premium package?
Why?
I can understand why you would want to buy the last part of the series, but why would you go the extra mile for a sub-par product?


----------



## Cybertox

Easy











From what I have heard, Heart Of The Swarm is easier on Brutal than Wings Of Liberty. Some even say that HOTS on Brutal is like WOL on Hard. I have played through HOTS on medium, now thinking whether I should play through it on Brutal. I really enjoyed beating the campaign of WOL again, brought back so many memories, last time I played the campaign it was 2010 (5 years ago







).


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have heard, Heart Of The Swarm is easier on Brutal than Wings Of Liberty. Some even say that HOTS on Brutal is like WOL on Hard. I have played through HOTS on medium, now thinking whether I should play through it on Brutal. I really enjoyed beating the campaign of WOL again, brought back so many memories, last time I played the campaign it was 2010 (5 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


HotS on brutal is way easier than WoL on hard, bar a boss fight or two. I hope LotV doesn't have casual difficulty as the hardest.


----------



## DoomDash

Okay as long as carriers don't have good ground support liberators do own them as long as you have critical mass.


----------



## Cybertox

With every change, LOTV becomes worse and worse.

*SOURCE*


Mule Removed
Chronoboost Removed
Larva reduced to 2 per inject (Now Automated)
Those are the three main changes to macro which I absolutely hate, the game will become a lot slower in terms of pace during its development. I really do not appreciate the removal of the Mule, Chronoboost and the reduction of larva injection. I thought that the mineral and worker changes were bad, now this happened. Some changes concerning protoss units warp in have been done as well, pylons located near a Nexus warp-in units considerably faster. You can find more details in the source.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> This makes no sense to me. So you will not only buy a game that you do not like many things about, but you will also give extra money for the digital premium package?
> Why?
> I can understand why you would want to buy the last part of the series, but why would you go the extra mile for a sub-par product?


Well, first and foremost I am a big Blizzard and Starcraft fan, how could I not buy the final and conclusive expansion of one of my favourite franchises. I have already bought the first two, why not buy the final one and finish the trilogy. For me 60 euros is not that much for a game like StarCraft 2 LOTV, especially considering the fact that I havent bought a game since early spring so affording such a purchase is not that big of a deal.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> With every change, LOTV becomes worse and worse.
> 
> *SOURCE*
> 
> 
> Mule Removed
> Chronoboost Removed
> Larva reduced to 2 per inject (Now Automated)
> Those are the three main changes to macro which I absolutely hate, the game will become a lot slower in terms of pace during its development. I really do not appreciate the removal of the Mule, Chronoboost and the reduction of larva injection. I thought that the mineral and worker changes were bad, now this happened. Some changes concerning protoss units warp in have been done as well, pylons located near a Nexus warp-in units considerably faster. You can find more details in the source.
> Well, first and foremost I am a big Blizzard and Starcraft fan, how could I not buy the final and conclusive expansion of one of my favourite franchises. I have already bought the first two, why not buy the final one and finish the trilogy. For me 60 euros is not that much for a game like StarCraft 2 LOTV, especially considering the fact that I havent bought a game since early spring so affording such a purchase is not that big of a deal.


I actually welcome a slower game. More time to think.

Not everyone is 14 year old gamer with lightning fast reflexes, I'd like my games to depend less on my ability to click like a madman, and more on my ability to use brain 26 years in the making. Especially when we talk about RTS.

It was always too fast for me. The fact that it was played on "Faster" speed, and not "Normal" shows that there was always something wrong.


----------



## Cybertox

This splitting and micro is insane. Damn those guys are beasts, good old WOL when marines and tanks were played in almost every game vs Zerg.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah Marine tank was def the best of SC2 vs Zerg. No better match up to play or watch IMO.

HotS was stupid, mines were too powerful / random. No need for tank support since mines attack air, etc.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> This splitting and micro is insane. Damn those guys are beasts, good old WOL when marines and tanks were played in almost every game vs Zerg.


RIP Marine King's style from WoL S3(?) championships at gom.tv

I really miss WoL actually, much preferred it over HotS - and probably LotV.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> With every change, LOTV becomes worse and worse.
> 
> *SOURCE*
> 
> 
> Mule Removed
> Chronoboost Removed
> Larva reduced to 2 per inject (Now Automated)
> Those are the three main changes to macro which I absolutely hate, the game will become a lot slower in terms of pace during its development. I really do not appreciate the removal of the Mule, Chronoboost and the reduction of larva injection. I thought that the mineral and worker changes were bad, now this happened. Some changes concerning protoss units warp in have been done as well, pylons located near a Nexus warp-in units considerably faster. You can find more details in the source.


So, you're against them slowing down the game, but also against the mineral and worker changes? Because the mineral and worker changes actually made the game a lot faster, and the mule/chrono/larva removal is to slow it back down. LotV is already a lot faster than HotS/WoL, this will just make it a little slower. I'm not for it or anything, just playing devils advocate.

As far as the warp gate changes go, they just want toss to not have an equal offensive to defender advantage, which in turn would probably make PvP's way more interesting and rewarding.

But at the end of the day, they could revert all of these, it''s beta and it's a good time to test this stuff. I don't really like the removal of the macro mechanics, but as I said before I'm willing to at least try before I fully make up my mind.

Terran late game is going to be terrible if you can't sack SCV's, so not sure how that will work in the long run.


----------



## Alex132

Eh, sounds like interesting changes. Although I'm always against removing "micro-actions that you're required to properly macro" features of SC2. Blizzard seems to love doing it however


----------



## DoomDash

Oh I did want to add the siege tank medivac micro will be very exciting in LotV, I assure you.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

I don't know if i'll buy the collector's edition, normal or digital deluxe. There's also the whole SC2 Pack (All 3 digital deluxe) for 100$ I think. I only have the normal version of WOL and HOTS, I don't know if it's worth it for the goodies. I don't play WoW and will probably never play it again.

Time to grind SC2/D3 again with friends. I've been busy and stopped for a while but I started to play alot since the beginning of the week.

I'm from D1/D2:LOD/SC/Brood War era... speaking of which, we're not getting younger, eh...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> I'm from D1/D2:LOD/SC/Brood War era... speaking of which, we're not getting younger, eh...


Ditto.


----------



## DoomDash

I don't know what I'm going to vs Protoss, mech still can't beat tier 3 Protoss even if you're ahead. I hope the next patch comes out soon I'm interested to see any balance changes they have.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> RIP Marine King's style from WoL S3(?) championships at gom.tv
> 
> I really miss WoL actually, much preferred it over HotS - and probably LotV.


I miss WOL as well, the traditional Marine-Tank composition, Reapers with mines and things such as the siege tank ability that had to be researched in the tech lab first before becoming available. Separate upgrades for air and ground etc. Maps like Blistering Sands, Xel Naga Caverns, Steppes Of War and Kulas Ravine is what I miss the most. I also miss some players and casters.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So, you're against them slowing down the game, but also against the mineral and worker changes? Because the mineral and worker changes actually made the game a lot faster, and the mule/chrono/larva removal is to slow it back down. LotV is already a lot faster than HotS/WoL, this will just make it a little slower. I'm not for it or anything, just playing devils advocate.
> 
> As far as the warp gate changes go, they just want toss to not have an equal offensive to defender advantage, which in turn would probably make PvP's way more interesting and rewarding.
> 
> But at the end of the day, they could revert all of these, it''s beta and it's a good time to test this stuff. I don't really like the removal of the macro mechanics, but as I said before I'm willing to at least try before I fully make up my mind.
> 
> Terran late game is going to be terrible if you can't sack SCV's, so not sure how that will work in the long run.


The increased amount of starting workers indeed increases the pace of the game as it develops faster in the beginning but the reduced amount of minerals in the patches not only decreases the starting resources available to you but also slightly decreases the development pace due to the availability of resources being lower, so you have less resources to build units/buildings and developing new tech. Also the fact that some patches get saturated faster than other due to having lower availability of minerals is just unneeded inconvenience, its just added hassle making me distribute the scvs across all of my expansions, this change does not give any additional interest or entertainment, just unnecessary hassle. Id rather have them make changes which actually make the game more interesting to play, no need to reinvent or remove core aspects which have been already established quite well. How about coming up with new things instead of changing those which already exist and are perfectly fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Oh I did want to add the siege tank medivac micro will be very exciting in LotV, I assure you.


I suck at siege tank + medivac micro so bad, I just cant do it properly for some reason despite the fact that I understand the concept, pick the tank while enemy projectiles are flying towards it and then drop it out again yet I still cant manage to do it properly. Its not that useful though, only during early game drops.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> I don't know if i'll buy the collector's edition, normal or digital deluxe. There's also the whole SC2 Pack (All 3 digital deluxe) for 100$ I think. I only have the normal version of WOL and HOTS, I don't know if it's worth it for the goodies. I don't play WoW and will probably never play it again.
> 
> Time to grind SC2/D3 again with friends. I've been busy and stopped for a while but I started to play alot since the beginning of the week.
> 
> I'm from D1/D2:LOD/SC/Brood War era... speaking of which, we're not getting younger, eh...


The All 3 Digital Deluxe package can be only bought if you dont own any previous games, I tried purchasing it but it said that I am not eligible to buy it due to already having a portion of the content that is being sold.

Speaking of old Blizzard games, I still remember playing WarCraft II on my iBook G3, had so much fun back then.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I miss WOL as well, the traditional Marine-Tank composition, Reapers with mines and things such as the siege tank ability that had to be researched in the tech lab first before becoming available. Separate upgrades for air and ground etc. Maps like Blistering Sands, Xel Naga Caverns, Steppes Of War and Kulas Ravine is what I miss the most. I also miss some players and casters.
> The increased amount of starting workers indeed increases the pace of the game as it develops faster in the beginning but the reduced amount of minerals in the patches not only decreases the starting resources available to you but also slightly decreases the development pace due to the availability of resources being lower, so you have less resources to build units/buildings and developing new tech. Also the fact that some patches get saturated faster than other due to having lower availability of minerals is just unneeded inconvenience, its just added hassle making me distribute the scvs across all of my expansions, this change does not give any additional interest or entertainment, just unnecessary hassle. Id rather have them make changes which actually make the game more interesting to play, no need to reinvent or remove core aspects which have been already established quite well. How about coming up with new things instead of changing those which already exist and are perfectly fine.
> I suck at siege tank + medivac micro so bad, I just cant do it properly for some reason despite the fact that I understand the concept, pick the tank while enemy projectiles are flying towards it and then drop it out again yet I still cant manage to do it properly. Its not that useful though, only during early game drops.
> The All 3 Digital Deluxe package can be only bought if you dont own any previous games, I tried purchasing it but it said that I am not eligible to buy it due to already having a portion of the content that is being sold.
> 
> Speaking of old Blizzard games, I still remember playing WarCraft II on my iBook G3, had so much fun back then.


Bummer. For RoS, it says that the digital deluxe content can be purchased for a reduced price. I don't have that options for StarCraft game and the original Diablo 3. Also, I gave a guest pass to a friend so that we could play D3 , but starter edition and those having the full game can't play together. He had to buy the game. There was a sale with D3+ROS for 40-50$, Which I did not see, I had Diablo 3 but when I tried to buy RoS, I had no deal whatsoever, the expansion was $40.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> Bummer. For RoS, it says that the digital deluxe content can be purchased for a reduced price. I don't have that options for StarCraft game and the original Diablo 3. Also, I gave a guest pass to a friend so that we could play D3 , but starter edition and those having the full game can't play together. He had to buy the game. There was a sale with D3+ROS for 40-50$, Which I did not see, I had Diablo 3 but when I tried to buy RoS, I had no deal whatsoever, the expansion was $40.


Yeah same here, I can buy the Deluxe Content for ROS at a reduced price but cant do so for the original Diablo III game and for Starcraft II WOL. Kind of sucks to say the truth.


----------



## ronnin426850

LotV regular edition should be free upgrade for those who have WoL and HotS.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> LotV regular edition should be free upgrade for those who have WoL and HotS.


That is not financially wise for Blizzard to do so, in such a case they would cash in only on new customers while there would be no possibility to milk the existing ones. Its really hard to attract new customers on top of those who already exist and are loyal.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I miss WOL as well, the traditional Marine-Tank composition, Reapers with mines and things such as the siege tank ability that had to be researched in the tech lab first before becoming available. Separate upgrades for air and ground etc. Maps like Blistering Sands, Xel Naga Caverns, Steppes Of War and Kulas Ravine is what I miss the most. I also miss some players and casters.
> The increased amount of starting workers indeed increases the pace of the game as it develops faster in the beginning but the reduced amount of minerals in the patches not only decreases the starting resources available to you but also slightly decreases the development pace due to the availability of resources being lower, so you have less resources to build units/buildings and developing new tech. Also the fact that some patches get saturated faster than other due to having lower availability of minerals is just unneeded inconvenience, its just added hassle making me distribute the scvs across all of my expansions, this change does not give any additional interest or entertainment, just unnecessary hassle. Id rather have them make changes which actually make the game more interesting to play, no need to reinvent or remove core aspects which have been already established quite well. How about coming up with new things instead of changing those which already exist and are perfectly fine.
> I suck at siege tank + medivac micro so bad, I just cant do it properly for some reason despite the fact that I understand the concept, pick the tank while enemy projectiles are flying towards it and then drop it out again yet I still cant manage to do it properly. Its not that useful though, only during early game drops.


I'll just say a couple of things. You are looking at the economy changes in the most simplistic way possible, while I agree it feels a bit tedious at first, it's the end result of what it encourages that makes it interesting. That is, you have to have more bases, which typically will mean less death balls and more spread out battles, especially for the great harass/multitask/micro gods. This means we will see more engagements at more places, potentially at once, instead of just death balls every game. On the surface this isn't that obvious, but once you start watching the pro scene in LotV you'll see as people get better it will end up for more interesting than HotS or WoL (for the most part).

As far as siege tanks go, it's at its strongest mid-game but I assure you it's quite good during the entire game. I'm not very good at it either surprisingly, but I've already seen pros use it with like 4 tanks with medivacs basically being used all game to stop attacks from all over. It basically allows you to have a mobile siege tank, defensively this application will be extremely useful too, because people tend to avoid siege tank fire when possible. Going along with the more bases to cover, this creates an interesting dynamic.

Off topic, but not sure how well you know this guy Has, but he's famous for being a cheese Protoss player (like most of them but to a further extreme







). I thought this was pretty cool though, he walls off his stalker so he cant be killed by scvs, and he is protecting his proxy pylons. http://www.twitch.tv/wcs/v/11239133?t=2h06m58s

terran player tweeted this right after https://twitter.com/ROOTiaguz/status/633015205732073472

Has proxy oracles vs terran every game.... and I mean every.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> That is not financially wise for Blizzard to do so, in such a case they would cash in only on new customers while there would be no possibility to milk the existing ones. Its really hard to attract new customers on top of those who already exist and are loyal.


I don't think they even notice the revenue SC makes over the golden goose that is WoW


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't think they even notice the revenue SC makes over the golden goose that is WoW


We can still show them what games interest us by buying Diablo and StarCraft games. I wish there was more people playing those two and that bliz would invest more in those addictions games.

I played WoW at launch, stopped for 9 years, played last year with my GF who dumped me after 3 months together and kept me in the friendzone for 7. So I Played 10 months, and I will never play it again.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> We can still show them what games interest us by buying Diablo and StarCraft games. I wish there was more people playing those two and that bliz would invest more in those addictions games.
> 
> I played WoW at launch, stopped for 9 years, played last year with my GF who dumped me after 3 months together and kept me in the friendzone for 7. So I Played 10 months, and I will never play it again.


True, which is why I have purchased WoL, HotS, and D3. Unfortunately I won't be buying D3's expansion for now, because it is just not worth it. It has a quarter of the content of the base game, and costs the same.
Also, I will not be buying any deluxe or promo packs. I do not think Blizzard have put enough effort into the games I love to deserve the extra $$.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> True, which is why I have purchased WoL, HotS, and D3. Unfortunately I won't be buying D3's expansion for now, because it is just not worth it. It has a quarter of the content of the base game, and costs the same.
> Also, I will not be buying any deluxe or promo packs. I do not think Blizzard have put enough effort into the games I love to deserve the extra $$.


That's a vicious circle. Money talks. I think if people buy more SC2, D3, expansion sets (and deluxe are even better maybe), it will show them that there's not only WoW in the world, and that D2/SC/D3/SC2 hardcore and loyal player need to be respected. Not just the casual gamer that plays WoW. If people don't buy D3 and SC2 because they think blizzard do not put enough effort, it will cause less sales and less efforts on those games.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> That's a vicious circle. Money talks. I think if people buy more SC2, D3, expansion sets (and deluxe are even better maybe), it will show them that there's not only WoW in the world, and that D2/SC/D3/SC2 hardcore and loyal player need to be respected. Not just the casual gamer that plays WoW. If people don't buy D3 and SC2 because they think blizzard do not put enough effort, it will cause less sales and less efforts on those games.


On the other hand, if people paid for Sc2 as much as they pay for WoW, we would be playing Sc2's 5th amazing expansion, which proudly adds pandas with wooden rocket launchers to Terran.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> On the other hand, if people paid for Sc2 as much as they pay for WoW, we would be playing Sc2's 5th amazing expansion, which proudly adds pandas with wooden rocket launchers to Terran.


Bahhh maybe. I don't know. StarCraft is not really for casual, And D3...is too casual for my taste I must say, but it's getting better. I think the games would be better, a larger crowd = a larger risk to lose a bunch of customers and sales.


----------



## DoomDash

I just beat http://www.twitch.tv/forsenlol forsen on his stream with 17,000 people watching. I'll post the vod from his POV afterwords, but I totally robbed him. lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just beat http://www.twitch.tv/forsenlol forsen on his stream with 17,000 people watching. I'll post the vod from his POV afterwords, but I totally robbed him. lol


OMG is he a pro player?! Congrats, this is awesome!!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> OMG is he a pro player?! Congrats, this is awesome!!


He was, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Forsen. He was never super or elite or anything, and he is new to LotV/out of retirement, so it's nothing special. You could tell he didn't know what he was doing in lotv, he could have easily won the game. I mean, I'm telling you, I robbed him. He was so confused about his loss that he actually watched the replay on his stream. Like I said I'll post the vod from his POV when he's done streaming.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Grats!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I just beat http://www.twitch.tv/forsenlol forsen on his stream with 17,000 people watching. I'll post the vod from his POV afterwords, but I totally robbed him. lol


The guy is Platinum, why are you so excited?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The guy is Platinum, why are you so excited?


He's an ex-pro player, I'm just excited because he's famous I guess. My 3rd famous player I've beat that I know of. Also, he is platinum because he just started playing, he had like 12 games on that account. Clearly not an accomplishment given all the circumstances, still cool.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He's an ex-pro player, I'm just excited because he's famous I guess. My 3rd famous player I've beat that I know of. Also, he is platinum because he just started playing, he had like 12 games on that account. Clearly not an accomplishment given all the circumstances, still cool.


He did beat PuMa but apart from that he hasnt accomplished much throughout his career, he performed pretty poorly. But I guess the audience is what caused your excitement. A friend of mine once beat DeMuslim while he was in Masters, DeMuslim at that time was in Grandmasters, the game was streamed on Twitch as well. He was the only one out of all my friends who played StarCraft who managed to beat a pro player.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> He did beat PuMa but apart from that he hasnt accomplished much throughout his career, he performed pretty poorly. But I guess the audience is what caused your excitement. A friend of mine once beat DeMuslim while he was in Masters, DeMuslim at that time was in Grandmasters, the game was streamed on Twitch as well. He was the only one out of all my friends who played StarCraft who managed to beat a pro player.


The most famous played I beat was Artosis when he was on his clan SixJax. He wasn't famous for being super high level but he did make it into the GSL round of 64 at least once. I'm sure I beat a bunch of pros or grandmasters before they were famous though, since I was high masters for all of WoL.

forsen is playing Archon mode with Naniwa right now


----------



## ronnin426850

What are you guys talking, he played HyuN, could have beaten him too! This is big! And you've beat Artosis? Pls teach me, I'll be the best padawan ever, oops, wrong universe there, whatever, you are sc god to me


----------



## DoomDash

Here is the stream me vs Forsen from his POV !!
http://www.twitch.tv/forsenlol/v/11376358?t=4h23m41s
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What are you guys talking, he played HyuN, could have beaten him too! This is big! And you've beat Artosis? Pls teach me, I'll be the best padawan ever, oops, wrong universe there, whatever, you are sc god to me


I also beat Orb, but he's far less famous now than he was when SC2 was new. I beat him on his own stream as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Orb

But yeah he never was that good just famous.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Here is the stream me vs Forsen from his POV !!
> http://www.twitch.tv/forsenlol/v/11376358?t=4h23m41s
> I also beat Orb, but he's far less famous now than he was when SC2 was new. I beat him on his own stream as well:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlb2fUy0fA4
> http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Orb
> 
> But yeah he never was that good just famous.


Any tricks to avoid rush while getting a second base while going for mid units ? All I see online are quick rushes or mass voids. I have difficulty balancing units and econ.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> Any tricks to avoid rush while getting a second base while going for mid units ? All I see online are quick rushes or mass voids. I have difficulty balancing units and econ.


As Terran? What race lol? I only expand like this in TvZ 100%, but in TvP and TvT expanding as fast as I did in that game is a bit more risky. I do it on certain maps only. It's a complicated answer though, since a lot of when you're safe depends on scouting information, map etc.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

I play random, complicated indeed.

It seems that I either rush units too quickly and get crushed, or make a second base too soon or too late. It's hard to balance. Even with scouting , in 4v4 I never know what kind of players I'll have as teammates.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> I play random, complicated indeed.
> 
> It seems that I either rush units too quickly and get crushed, or make a second base too soon or too late. It's hard to balance. Even with scouting , in 4v4 I never know what kind of players I'll have as teammates.


Well if you want to get good faster, I'd pick one race. Most random players at almost any level are just cheesers, because it takes forever to know all the complicated timings offensively and defensively with every race, in every match up.


----------



## Mwarren

Hopefully LotV really puts the competitive scene back on the map again. I'm looking forward to giving SC2 one last good run as me and Doom were top masters for most of WoL. I think what held me back was that I would just grind playing non stop without ever refining my builds, analyzing replays, nor working on my strengths or working on increasing my apm.

Right now drops are really strong as Terran in HOTS and LotV. If someone can just learn to drop all over the place constantly I'm 100% that doing that alone will get them into GM on the NA and EU ladder.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Hopefully LotV really puts the competitive scene back on the map again.


I think it will. All the people who were annoyed at SC2 being split into 3, and having to go through the extreme discomfort of learning to play something that isn't "even the final version of the game, doh", will now come and play it, calm and relaxed by the fact that SC2 will NEVER EVER CHANGE past LotV (which is bs, of course).
Also, Blizzard will be able to put their entire SC team's focus on making the game popular again, and not having to "waste" time making another campaign.


----------



## Cybertox

Blizzard and its ******ed interfaces never fail to amaze me, why would you put resume and surrender nearby? I paused the game because I wanted to clean my mousepad, then I resumed it and then my mouse drifted and I accidentally clicked, this way I surrendered in a game which was 50 seconds in.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Blizzard and its ******ed interfaces never fail to amaze me, why would you put resume and surrender nearby? I paused the game because I wanted to clean my mousepad, then I resumed it and then my mouse drifted and I accidentally clicked, this way I surrendered in a game which was 50 seconds in.


Why is Close next to Maximize in a standard Windows window? People have been doing this **** for ages. It's stupid, but hey with all those high-dpi ergonomic mice, we should be making less mistakes of that sort








Sucks to be you, I have also suffered that a few times.


----------



## Cybertox

I just had a hilarious game, I did the Proxy Widow Mine Rush build order and despite me not executing it perfectly (widow mine engaged faster than reaper, poor reaper timing + supply block) I was still able to manage it efficiently and winning the game. Its hilarious, you should check it out, after the occurrence the player just GGed out of the game. Its not the first time something like this works out but this is one of the best examples in terms of result despite the poor execution. Replay is linked below. Disregard my APM, it was early in the morning. Its around 120 when I am awake, still sucks but better than in that game.

https://app.box.com/s/1qxxzsuokdyvkv0zon993z0rhyw37xs7


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Blizzard and its ******ed interfaces never fail to amaze me, why would you put resume and surrender nearby? I paused the game because I wanted to clean my mousepad, then I resumed it and then my mouse drifted and I accidentally clicked, this way I surrendered in a game which was 50 seconds in.


Just use the pause break button on your keyboard instead.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just use the pause break button on your keyboard instead.


U and P are on the other hand side of the keyboard, was too lazy to lift my right hand from the mouse or go with the left hand all the way to the right side.

Anyways, played quite a bit of games today, more than 20 I would assume and I really did not enjoy playing them even though I won the majority of them. So for some reason I am still in gold despite having beaten diamond and platinum players. What I really dislike about StarCraft is that with luck and cheesy builds even some noobs from the gold league sometimes manage to win. I lost to some utter crap which should not have worked in any scenario mainly due to luck and me not being positioned properly at that time. So yeah so far I am really frustrated and kind of left disappointed with SCII. All the games that I have won or the majority of them was going widow mines rush against toss, so that the player cant accumulate that op snowball consisting of stalkers, colossuses, zealots and templars which can be only beaten if you have insane micro with vikings, bio and good sniping/emp hits with ghosts. I open up with hellions every single game against Zerg and if I dont succeed, I proceed unto going bio and transitioning from hellions production to mines. Against Terrans it is the same boring crap with reaper openers, drops and siege tanks (I always go bio + widow mines even against siege tanks + marines or mech players). So yeah did not really enjoy playing today, I need to work on some of my weaknesses and learn a few more safe builds which are efficient in general and not only in one game aspect. I guess I will continue playing till the 25th, hopefully by then I will finally get back to platinum where I belong. Then on the 25th Party Hard releases which I am going to play until the 28th (Diablo 3 Season 4). Wont be playing SCII anymore until LOTV.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

I love 4v4s, I love teamwork, supporting and being supported. However it's a PITA when the other side goes all air, that my team are newer players or don't work together. It's a love/hate relationship !


----------



## DoomDash

I'm trying not to be too hard on myself but I tanked my score again lol. I swear I was one win away from Masters, the guy I fought got promoted off me, I'm sure I would have been as well. I know it's beta anyway but once I get close I can taste it.

Ravagers are pretty good vs mech I've been learning recently.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> That's a vicious circle. Money talks. I think if people buy more SC2, D3, expansion sets (and deluxe are even better maybe), it will show them that there's not only WoW in the world, and that D2/SC/D3/SC2 hardcore and loyal player need to be respected. Not just the casual gamer that plays WoW. If people don't buy D3 and SC2 because they think blizzard do not put enough effort, it will cause less sales and less efforts on those games.


If we buy the standard versions instead of the deluxe editions the purchase history will show people are interested in sc2 and D3, but they are missing something on their Deluxe packages that does make them appealing.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> He did beat PuMa but apart from that he hasnt accomplished much throughout his career, he performed pretty poorly. But I guess the audience is what caused your excitement. A friend of mine once beat DeMuslim while he was in Masters, DeMuslim at that time was in Grandmasters, the game was streamed on Twitch as well. He was the only one out of all my friends who played StarCraft who managed to beat a pro player.


I honestly don't appreciate your pessimistic demeanor on what others find enjoyment in. We are not pro by any means and to even come close to beating people that were pro is awesome whether you want to agree or not. I would appreciate if you would just lighten up juuussttt a tad.


----------



## DoomDash

I made the mistake of activating my WoL CE on my wifes account, I really want that cool Thor skin too.


----------



## DoomDash

Aweee yeaaaa http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19840424/automated-tournaments-coming-to-beta-8-19-2015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Ravagers are pretty good vs mech I've been learning recently.


Ravagers vs mech makes a very cool dynamic. Basically you cannot lead with tanks or liberators, and you must slow push extremely safely or Ravagers can pick off any immobile targets very easily. Example is at the end of this game I played, you see just how careful you have to be (on both sides).

MechPushVsRavagers.zip 78k .zip file


----------



## Mwarren

This might sound stupid but oh well, straight up bio is very strong against mech. The only catch is that you must be ahead upgrade wise with your bio units at all times and you must have amazing micro (marine splitting and able to control multiple small armies simultaneously).

Straight up bio is very strong especially once the double upgrades kick in. You can be all over the place at once and do a lot of damage with bio drops. If you can split really well you can also take on bio/tank and/or straight up mech armies since mech relies on AOE damage. You also need to keep air advantage though going into the mid to late game so that you can drop your units on clusters of tanks. (shouldn't be too hard since straight up bio uses such little gas).

Even if you guys don't go straight up bio all game long I think that investing heavily into bio early on (skipping tanks for fast double upgrades and fast medivacs instead) is very strong.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> This might sound stupid but oh well, straight up bio is very strong against mech. The only catch is that you must be ahead upgrade wise with your bio units at all times and you must have amazing micro (marine splitting and able to control multiple small armies simultaneously).
> 
> Straight up bio is very strong especially once the double upgrades kick in. You can be all over the place at once and do a lot of damage with bio drops. If you can split really well you can also take on bio/tank and/or straight up mech armies since mech relies on AOE damage. You also need to keep air advantage though going into the mid to late game so that you can drop your units on clusters of tanks. (shouldn't be too hard since straight up bio uses such little gas).
> 
> Even if you guys don't go straight up bio all game long I think that investing heavily into bio early on (for going tanks for double upgrades and medivacs) is very strong.


Yep bio is still really good, and very high skill cap.

LotV Grandmaster league so inaccurate at the bottom, I've now beat 4-5 GM's.


----------



## DoomDash

Patch preview is up http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19875306/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-august-20-8-20-2015


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Patch preview is up http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19875306/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-august-20-8-20-2015


I shall be trying beta some point this weekend!!


----------



## DoomDash

1st impressions:

I hate it. I want my mule back, seriously game feels so slow and boring now.

2nd impression:

Game sucks. I'll probably quit if the game stays anything like this.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 1st impressions:
> 
> I hate it. I want my mule back, seriously game feels so slow and boring now.
> 
> 2nd impression:
> 
> Game sucks. I'll probably quit if the game stays anything like this.


You really thought such changes could be good? I knew they were awful the moment I read the patch notes.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You really thought such changes could be good? I knew they were awful the moment I read the patch notes.


No, but I thought they would be more bearable.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No, but I thought they would be more bearable.


What a crying shame. I hope they don't stick with anything that is going to ruin the game. They were finally starting to spark interest for all.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What a crying shame. I hope they don't stick with anything that is going to ruin the game. They were finally starting to spark interest for all.


Problem is the community is split on the issue, I really don't know how this will play out. It's tempting to just quit if it sticks, but maybe I could get over it I don't know. Just make sure when the time comes if you don't like it, you speak up against it. People can say its whining but this is something important that Blizzard said its willing to change back.

I kind of wish you would have played more legacy so you knew exactly how different it felt.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18705072378?page=1

No parasitic bomb mention yet, can't believe it.

Also 13 range Ravagers, that's going to be hella stupid imo.


----------



## ronnin426850

Perhaps y'all still haven't discovered new aspects that can make the game interesting in its current state


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Nothing for 4v4s ? Blah
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18705072378?page=1
> 
> No parasitic bomb mention yet, can't believe it.
> 
> Also 13 range Ravagers, that's going to be hella stupid imo.


Let the mass ravagers begin ! lol.

Mass Ravagers vs Voids/TEmpest should be interesting tho.

I keep losing alot of games recently. It's making me so mad.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Perhaps y'all still haven't discovered new aspects that can make the game interesting in its current state


What would be more interesting about less content and skill cap?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What would be more interesting about less content and skill cap?


I don't know, man, what was interesting in WoL compared to BW?







Give it time, I bet the pros will start figuring it out soon


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> Nothing for 4v4s ? Blah
> Let the mass ravagers begin ! lol.
> 
> Mass Ravagers vs Voids/TEmpest should be interesting tho.
> 
> I keep losing alot of games recently. It's making me so mad.


4vs4 Is a mess and your input is not game decisive at all. The game relies heavily on your allies, their build and luck, it has little to do with actual skill. I did play some 4vs4 but purely for fun, so dont get mad when you lose as its not even your fault for the majority of the game's part.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't know, man, what was interesting in WoL compared to BW?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it time, I bet the pros will start figuring it out soon


I'm telling you, this will destroy the balance of the game for a long time. Will people figure it out? Yeah, but I can almost promise you it will be too late. That and it's just not as fun as when it had those mechanics. Seriously don't like them pandering to a bunch of LoL playing newbies who paper craft this game.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm telling you, this will destroy the balance of the game for a long time. Will people figure it out? Yeah, but I can almost promise you it will be too late. That and it's just not as fun as when it had those mechanics. Seriously don't like them pandering to a bunch of LoL playing newbies who paper craft this game.


Relax








I am pretty sure a lot of people are not satisfied with the changes and Blizzard will eventually revert them.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> 4vs4 Is a mess and your input is not game decisive at all. The game relies heavily on your allies, their build and luck, it has little to do with actual skill. I did play some 4vs4 but purely for fun, so dont get mad when you lose as its not even your fault for the majority of the game's part.


Yeah. Never know what kind of teammates you're gonna get..Hard to get to dimaond/master again.


----------



## biz1

so i bought lotv because i'm going to play the campaign anyways

multiplayer is in a weird place

starcraft 2 is the only active RTS that i could learn reasonably quickly since i've been playing these types of games for 15 years
but the speed of the game is so insane that it would take forever to practice and get to the point where i can actually compete in the strategy part instead of losing to APM every time

they could have just added matchmaking for slower game speeds instead of some silly coop mode or removing stuff from the game.
in order to actually play this without getting to unmanageable levels of supply i'll have to find some rush tactic that doesn't require playing fast, which usually isn't possible

we'll see where the balance shakes out i guess.

it's hard to predict where the game will end up since the developer seems so confused.
they're probably better off just tuning 1 race for macro lovers, 1 race for micro lovers, and 1 race for people who hate both. i don't how their current approach will satisfy anyone, let alone everyone.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Relax
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure a lot of people are not satisfied with the changes and Blizzard will eventually revert them.


I wish I was convinced, but a large portion of the community wants it to be a lot more scrub friendly... to be something it's not. This is the first major step towards that.

Another good post about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3hvosm/how_i_feel_about_the_macro_mechanics_change/

and beastyqt's post:
https://www.facebook.com/Beastyqt/posts/747028795426746

agree 10000x% seriously. this patch is awful.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wish I was convinced, but a large portion of the community wants it to be a lot more scrub friendly... to be something it's not. This is the first major step towards that.
> 
> Another good post about it:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3hvosm/how_i_feel_about_the_macro_mechanics_change/
> 
> and beastyqt's post:
> https://www.facebook.com/Beastyqt/posts/747028795426746
> 
> agree 10000x% seriously. this patch is awful.


On the flip side, the previous macro mechanics could also be argued for removing skill in a sense too.

All 3 of the macro mechanics create strategic decision making (build orders) but also remove emphasis on screwing up by reducing the skill cap.

Terran screws up and needs minerals? Call down all those mules you've been banking.

Protoss screwed up and didn't get their research/forgot to make a unit? Chrono Boost ftw.

Zerg is the only exception where the new mechanic has reduced their skill cap as there is no more punishment for missing injects as injects can't be missed unless you screw up really badly.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> On the flip side, the previous macro mechanics could also be argued for removing skill in a sense too.
> 
> All 3 of the macro mechanics create strategic decision making (build orders) but also remove emphasis on screwing up by reducing the skill cap.
> 
> Terran screws up and needs minerals? Call down all those mules you've been banking.
> 
> Protoss screwed up and didn't get their research/forgot to make a unit? Chrono Boost ftw.
> 
> Zerg is the only exception where the new mechanic has reduced their skill cap as there is no more punishment for missing injects as injects can't be missed unless you screw up really badly.


Yeah but the screwing up in those cases leads for boring recovery, rather than the ability to continue with production faster. Either way that makes another solid argument for "making the game more accessible", and those macro mechanics don't actually make the game harder they make it more forgiving, but in a way that requires your own control and decisions. I don't see any downside to keeping them, especially because losing workers was still already a big impact.


----------



## ronnin426850

The fact is that every casual player hates / is afraid of SC2 because of how punishing it is. Making it slower and more territory-based will help casuals, which in turn will help e-sports, because nobody watched tournaments of games they are not interested it.
That's a win in my book.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The fact is that every casual player hates / is afraid of SC2 because of how punishing it is. Making it slower and more territory-based will help casuals, which in turn will help e-sports, because nobody watched tournaments of games they are not interested it.
> That's a win in my book.


If the pros don't like it there will be no esports to watch. Also, the macro mechanics actually help make the game easier not harder. You can actually recover from losing workers, unlike its current state, once you lose workers without doing the same damage it's basically GG. No Chrono boost/mule to save you. The only one that is semi-forgiving now is Zerg, since at the very least they never miss injects, and macro hatches can offset the loss of larva. The game just turned into more of a gimmick... if you didn't like oracles destroying your worker line before, imagine it now as it leaves you completely crippled. It's encouraging crazy all ins pointed at workers. Look at the post the Zerg players made about how stupid ZvZ is now too with Larva.

Truth is, casuals don't know what they want, because they don't understand the game enough.


----------



## Cybertox

How am I still in Gold?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> If the pros don't like it there will be no esports to watch. Also, the macro mechanics actually help make the game easier not harder. You can actually recover from losing workers, unlike its current state, once you lose workers without doing the same damage it's basically GG. No Chrono boost/mule to save you. The only one that is semi-forgiving now is Zerg, since at the very least they never miss injects, and macro hatches can offset the loss of larva. The game just turned into more of a gimmick... if you didn't like oracles destroying your worker line before, imagine it now as it leaves you completely crippled. It's encouraging crazy all ins pointed at workers. Look at the post the Zerg players made about how stupid ZvZ is now too with Larva.
> 
> Truth is, casuals don't know what they want, because they don't understand the game enough.


I am a casual and I know what I want







I want a slower game with more bases spread across the map. Seems that's exactly what we're getting.
And if the pros don't like it, we'll just have other pros next year


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I am a casual and I know what I want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want a slower game with more bases spread across the map. Seems that's exactly what we're getting.
> And if the pros don't like it, we'll just have other pros next year


It's not just slow as I mentioned, it's also completely broken, and encouraged far more gimmicks. LotV before was amazing, and a really good pace.

Truth is casuals will play it anyway, the when you alienate your hardcore audience who appreciated this about SC2, you are driving off the core of the community. I'm okay with some changes for casuals, but this is just silly as it basically ruins a ton of aspects of the game for mechanics that really weren't that hard to begin with.

@Cybertox

Either your MMR hasn't settled yet, or you just have good and bad streaks like me.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Truth is casuals will play it anyway


That's not the truth, brother, believe me







I had decided not to buy LotV, now I have to wait and see if these changes will persist. If they do, I'll buy it. If they get reverted, I won't be playing it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That's not the truth, brother, believe me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had decided not to buy LotV, now I have to wait and see if these changes will persist. If they do, I'll buy it. If they get reverted, I won't be playing it.


Why? Do you even have the beta? Have you even TRIED EITHER WAY? Why are you so convinced this boring version is what you want without even trying it once? *I PROMISE YOU you'd change your tune after losing your workers to an oracle the first time*

Well typically I don't think casuals will care, and the ones who do only care because Blizzard offered this stupid idea to them in the first place, so I put some blame on Blizzard for splitting the community in half.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I am beating platinum and diamond player yet I still dont get promoted, even had to play against a master once. When I play against Gold players the match history is always like in the picture I linked.
> Get out of here, you filthy casual. Hope the changes get reverted and you dont buy the game. Less people in bronze.


Just gotta give it time. Are you number one in your gold division? I usually am #1-4 before getting promoted.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just gotta give it time. Are you number one in your gold division? I usually am #1-4 before getting promoted.


Was Rank 1 in my division now I am Rank 2, first guy has like 7 points more than me but his win/loss ratio is significantly worse than mine. But yeah I am always rotating between first and second.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Was Rank 1 in my division now I am Rank 2, first guy has like 7 points more than me but his win/loss ratio is significantly worse than mine. But yeah I am always rotating between first and second.


You probably have to have it "settle" then. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2112234276


----------



## biz1

balance and mechanics are different things

the macro changes alter balance because they tuned the game for many years with them in place, and then took them out without doing much balance adjustment

but they were far more often just APM sinks rather than strategic choices
even with infinite APM, the game is shallower with them since you don't have to do as much planning in advance
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Well typically I don't think casuals will care, and the ones who do only care because Blizzard offered this stupid idea to them in the first place, so I put some blame on Blizzard for splitting the community in half.


the problem is blizzard wants the game to appeal to a broader audience, but the game they made just doesn't
people will certainly buy it for campaigns, but as far as playing hundreds of hours of 1v1 multiplayer? no chance of broader appeal, no matter how many minor adjustments are made.

the people who think 1 or 2 changes will convert them are just going to leave after playing 50 games instead of 20 games.

sc2 is going to be the last semi-popular game of its kind
all i really want them to achieve with it is some way to beat turtlers without just grabbing more of the map and turning it into a long game of attrition and deathballs.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Get out of here, you filthy casual. Hope the changes get reverted and you dont buy the game. Less people in bronze.


Was that a joke or should I report you?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> balance and mechanics are different things
> 
> the macro changes alter balance because they tuned the game for many years with them in place, and then took them out without doing much balance adjustment
> 
> but they were far more often just APM sinks rather than strategic choices


Of course, but so is building SCV's. Doesn't mean it doesn't take skill, and it doesn't mean its _always_ requiring no decision. I've lost hundreds of games because I scanned or muled when I shouldn't have, so you can't even begin to convince me that it doesn't take some thought. Chrono is the most obvious when it comes to thinking about, and although spawn larva is the least thought about, it still took a high skill to continually do them. Maybe it's not apparent to casuals, but people who can think about the game would realize that the best of the best Zergs are masters of this. See here.

And yeah I'm beginning to think SC2 is the last game of its kind, if people can't even handle something that isn't blatantly obvious instant gratification. Guess we're living in a League of Legends generation, and it's just sad.

Speaking of this, Tekken 7 is semi-selling out too. Adding supers, and even made grab breaking easier. Sucks that good games have to dumb down to appeal to this casual generation of scrubs.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Was that a joke or should I report you?


I was just messing with you but I would indeed like the changes to be reverted. I do not approve of them, there is nothing wrong with you wanting more casual things though but I am not a fan of casual changes in games like StarCraft.

Speaking of Tekken 7, it has been out on Arcades for quite some time now and from what I have seen its pretty cool, not too sure how to feel about Yoshimitsu's new look but apart from that everything seems to be rather good, but from what I have read it is not coming any time soon to consoles or PC, lol at all the previously stated articles which were confusing as hell stating that Tekken 7 is releasing in spring on other platforms as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I was just messing with you but I would indeed like the changes to be reverted. I do not approve of them, there is nothing wrong with you wanting more casual things though but I am not a fan of casual changes in games like StarCraft.
> 
> Speaking of Tekken 7, it has been out on Arcades for quite some time now and from what I have seen its pretty cool, not too sure how to feel about Yoshimitsu's new look but apart from that everything seems to be rather good, but from what I have read it is not coming any time soon to consoles or PC, lol at all the previously stated articles which were confusing as hell stating that Tekken 7 is releasing in spring on other platforms as well.


I forget who I was arguing with in that thread but I told them there was 0 chance of it being released any time soon. Looks like I was right.

And yeah it looks solid, and I'm okay with some of the casualization of the game, like the smaller roster, even the supers (since they aren't super duper good, more flashy), but I'm not really a fan of the grabs made easy. Now rather than hitting the arm that extends further to break the grab, you just hit any punch button (as long as its not a 1+2 grab, if you know Tekken). After you play enough you can tell the difference and break grabs on reaction by seeing the arm, so that's a huge nerf to grabs in general.

I'm as big of a Tekken player as Starcraft, probably even more at my peak. I basically lived and breathed Tekken for years, had people over ever weekend, traveled across the US for tournaments, etc. I had like 8000 matches played on my Bryan card @ the arcade in Tekken 5 DR, was a moderator on Tekkenziabatsu, etc.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Problem is the community is split on the issue, I really don't know how this will play out. It's tempting to just quit if it sticks, but maybe I could get over it I don't know. Just make sure when the time comes if you don't like it, you speak up against it. People can say its whining but this is something important that Blizzard said its willing to change back.
> 
> I kind of wish you would have played more legacy so you knew exactly how different it felt.


Yeah, i did have about 50 games on lotv before the change.

I am still playing HoTS too and I love a game when I hit my spits flawlessly, spread creep to the enemy base, and keep complete map control, and win by double points as a reward. It takes soooo much out of me though, but it is soooo fun. I don't want my macro mechanics to go away... Also, I liked LoTV changes thus far, but the removal of Macro mechanics is LAAAMMMEEEE. IMO


----------



## biz1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> balance and mechanics are different things
> 
> the macro changes alter balance because they tuned the game for many years with them in place, and then took them out without doing much balance adjustment
> 
> but they were far more often just APM sinks rather than strategic choices
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, but so is building SCV's. Doesn't mean it doesn't take skill, and it doesn't mean its _always_ requiring no decision. I've lost hundreds of games because I scanned or muled when I shouldn't have, so you can't even begin to convince me that it doesn't take some thought. Chrono is the most obvious when it comes to thinking about, and although spawn larva is the least thought about, it still took a high skill to continually do them. Maybe it's not apparent to casuals, but people who can think about the game would realize that the best of the best Zergs are masters of this. See here.
Click to expand...

i'm not saying there was never any strategy involved

but it took a lot of strategy away from long-term planning when you could just use some free handouts to make up for misreading the situation

like there was nothing fundamentally broken about requiring players to scout and determine whether to make an extra gateway in response to an impending attack
chronoboost was a crutch that let people make up for poor play (bad scouting. bad planning) with some clicking that let them turn 2 gateways into 3
the entire SC2 protoss design was just a bunch of get-out-jail-free card handouts, but that's a separate issue

the same way there was nothing broken about requiring zergs to make an extra hatchery if they wanted more eggs
instead they get queens which is like a medic/hatchery/hydralisk all in one so the player doesn't have to plan in advance, but just wear a different hat depending on what the weather is like

is the enemy rushing? use the queen to defend/transfuse
is the enemy not rushing? use the queen to inject
obvious decisions like that just aren't interesting enough. because of this, making a queen is always correct.
it's much more strategic to decide between a hydralisk or a hatchery because it's not obvious which one is correct.

i really admired the zergs that knew how to balance aggression & expansion. it was masterful
this super-reactive play with floating insane amounts of larva never felt strategic or skill-based. it was more of "what do i need right now? make it so"
games are decided by 3 hatch before pool gambles and the resulting engagement micro instead of any artful planning

mules vs scan was the only one that had trade-offs which i consider worthy for a RTS (scouting/detection/risk-averse play vs. economy boost)
but supply drop still exists. that's worth like 2.5 free scvs or something, so the decision between economy & scouting/safety is still there.
i even like it better because you get nothing from supply dropping past 200, so there's no late-game OP mule abuse


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> mules vs scan was the only one that had trade-offs which i consider worthy for a RTS (scouting/detection/risk-averse play vs. economy boost)
> but supply drop still exists. that's worth like 2.5 free scvs or something, so the decision between economy & scouting/safety is still there.
> i even like it better because you get nothing from supply dropping past 200, so there's no late-game *OP mule abuse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


There really wasn't any late game OP mule abuse, the fact is Terran always has had the weakest late game, this basically gave us a fighting chance. Terran late game will be an absolute joke now. Again this is just one of the things that made the game unique, it actually all kind of worked out in its own way I think.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The fact is that every casual player hates / is afraid of SC2 because of how punishing it is. Making it slower and more territory-based will help casuals, which in turn will help e-sports, because nobody watched tournaments of games they are not interested it.
> That's a win in my book.


The changes are actually making the game more difficult for casuals. Do you know how easy it will be to win games now using builds that harass workers early on?

Mine drops followed up with banshees will probably be how I open every game if this change really goes into effect in LotV. Worker harass will become way too effective throughout the game and it will be nearly impossible to come back now as Terran or Protoss if any worker harass is not dealt with immediately.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's not just slow as I mentioned, it's also completely broken, and encouraged far more gimmicks. LotV before was amazing, and a really good pace.
> 
> Truth is casuals will play it anyway, the when you alienate your hardcore audience who appreciated this about SC2, you are driving off the core of the community. I'm okay with some changes for casuals, but this is just silly as it basically ruins a ton of aspects of the game for mechanics that really weren't that hard to begin with.
> 
> @Cybertox
> 
> Either your MMR hasn't settled yet, or you just have good and bad streaks like me.


The game will actually have a faster pace when "casuals" get worker harrassed and lose 6-10 workers early on and are forced to GG out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's not just slow as I mentioned, it's also completely broken, and encouraged far more gimmicks. LotV before was amazing, and a really good pace.
> 
> Truth is casuals will play it anyway, the when you alienate your hardcore audience who appreciated this about SC2, you are driving off the core of the community. I'm okay with some changes for casuals, but this is just silly as it basically ruins a ton of aspects of the game for mechanics that really weren't that hard to begin with.
> 
> @Cybertox
> 
> Either your MMR hasn't settled yet, or you just have good and bad streaks like me.


The game will actually have a faster pace when "casuals" get worker harrassed and lose 6-10 workers early on and are forced to GG out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> There really wasn't any late game OP mule abuse, the fact is Terran always has had the weakest late game, this basically gave us a fighting chance. Terran late game will be an absolute joke now. Again this is just one of the things that made the game unique, it actually all kind of worked out in its own way I think.


I predict that with the changes the optimal way to play Terran will be to do some sort of a drop early on followed up with cloaked banshees for harass and map control a long with scouting ability. When playing Terran unless you are MVP, the goal has always been to control the pace of the game and to slow down the pace enough to hold off the late game. The mid game has always been where Terran has shined.

Like you said, playing Terran late game is fighting an uphill battle.

I don't think the game will be broken with these changes though. From the sounds of it, it will actually benefit me as I play a very aggressive play style starting from the early game with worker harass.

If other Terran players can't call down mules and other Toss players can't chrono more workers after I just killed 8-10 of their workers early on they are screwed.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah it's not going to be good for me, I prefer macro mech, with only a little harass. I guess I can adapt and open mine drop every game and just hope they work. yay fun times :/.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's not just slow as I mentioned, it's also completely broken, and encouraged far more gimmicks. LotV before was amazing, and a really good pace.
> 
> Truth is casuals will play it anyway, the when you alienate your hardcore audience who appreciated this about SC2, you are driving off the core of the community. I'm okay with some changes for casuals, but this is just silly as it basically ruins a ton of aspects of the game for mechanics that really weren't that hard to begin with.
> 
> @Cybertox
> 
> Either your MMR hasn't settled yet, or you just have good and bad streaks like me.


The game will actually have a faster pace when "casuals" get worker harrassed and lose 6-10 workers early on and are forced to GG out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah it's not going to be good for me, I prefer macro mech, with only a little harass. I guess I can adapt and open mine drop every game and just hope they work. yay fun times :/.


You could always open up marine/hellion drop into mech play or just fast banshee into standard mech play.

Mine drop is just one early game harass build out of many.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> Mine drop is just one early game harass build out of many.


Never really liked that style, if anything I'll open tank or thor drop instead. Oh and liberators.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Never really liked that style, if anything I'll open tank or thor drop instead. Oh and liberators.


You'd be opening pretty late then, if Thor drop.









Easier worker harass will not make the game harder for casuals, Mwareen, you have no idea what you're talkin about







What league are you? Diamond or something? I've been all over bronze silver and gold, just trust me when we're talking about casuals


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> Guess we're living in a League of Legends generation


Very true, unfortunately.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You'd be opening pretty late then, if Thor drop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easier worker harass will not make the game harder for casuals, Mwareen, you have no idea what you're talkin about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What league are you? Diamond or something? I've been all over bronze silver and gold, just trust me when we're talking about casuals


Thor drops actually come out pretty fast, especially when you proxy them







.

I'll tell you what, Oracle proxies are easy even for bronze leaguers.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I forget who I was arguing with in that thread but I told them there was 0 chance of it being released any time soon. Looks like I was right.
> 
> And yeah it looks solid, and I'm okay with some of the casualization of the game, like the smaller roster, even the supers (since they aren't super duper good, more flashy), but I'm not really a fan of the grabs made easy. Now rather than hitting the arm that extends further to break the grab, you just hit any punch button (as long as its not a 1+2 grab, if you know Tekken). After you play enough you can tell the difference and break grabs on reaction by seeing the arm, so that's a huge nerf to grabs in general.
> 
> I'm as big of a Tekken player as Starcraft, probably even more at my peak. I basically lived and breathed Tekken for years, had people over ever weekend, traveled across the US for tournaments, etc. I had like 8000 matches played on my Bryan card @ the arcade in Tekken 5 DR, was a moderator on Tekkenziabatsu, etc.


I remember that, you were arguing with me, I was really convinced for some reason that those articles might be right and the game will indeed release on other platforms in spring. But what excited me the most is the fact that this time around Tekken is getting released on PC, which is actually true but that will happen later down the upcoming future. So you were actually right. I have been and still am a big Tekken fan as well, played it a lot throughout its instalments. I started back then on the PS1 and continued playing it til PS3. I even played Dark Resurrection on PSP. But I never played it competitively in tournaments, just at home against friends or by myself in story mode. I was actually really interested in the story ending of every character, Yoshimitsu obviously being my favourite and main character. I also noticed how much easier it is to dodge or deny grabs, the games that I have seen all featured attempts at grabbing but like 90% of those were unsuccessful.

Concerning StarCraft II, I have tried quite an amount of builds and so far these are my favourite ones.

*TvP Heart's Stim Timing*

Really good and effective against Toss in both scenarios of early aggression and macro game. If the protoss players decides to put some early aggression it can be easily defended due to having a reasonable amount of Barracks and early game bio units. If the protoss player decides to go for a macro game, by the time you push the highest amount of colossus he can have is only one if none at all, that single one can be acquired only if teching straight up to it without production any other low tier units, in such a case you just target the colossus and destroy his relatively small amount of stalkers, sentries etc.

*TvT Taeja's Autoturret Doom Drop*

Its a drop consisting of two medivacs containing two siege tanks and marines which are accompanied by a Raven with energy for two turrets. You simply drop on the opponent's main and siege, if the opponent pulls SCVs you either unsiege to kill more SCVs or you just drop two auto turrets blocking entry to tanks and just annihilate everything.

*TvZ 8-8-8 Proxy Reaper*

Very early teching to reapers and establishing a proxy barrack near the main. If the Zerg double expands and doesnt go gas early he is pretty much done, requires quite a lot of micro and can fail if you lose even one reaper but can be very effective. However if you lose one of your reapers or if the Zerg researches speed for lings then you are done.

*TvZ Blue Flame Hellions / Hellbats*

You pretty much open up gas first and then place a reactor on the barrack, then go for a very early factory and exchange it with the barrack, then you go tech lab with the repositioned barrack and start a second factory while the other one pumps out hellions on a regular basis, then once the second factory is done you exchange it with the barrack with the tech lab and research blue flame upgrade, then you throw an armory to then transform your hellions into hellbats and pretty much win the game if your early aggression denied roaches or early air.

*TvP Proxy Widow Mine Rush*

You go for a gas first build, then for single reaper and build a proxy factory, once you have a reaper and a widow mine you just push with the reaper first to absorb any kind of damage and plant the widow mine in the workers harvesting area, then the widow mine just splash damages all over those probes and its either GG or you have a huge economical advantage.

Those are my favourite builds so far which tend to be most effective for me, I have tried very early expo and Thor drops builds but none of those turned out well.


----------



## DoomDash

Does the Turret one still work? The new Turret duration is so short, I hate it.

As far as T7 goes, there is a test location about 2 hours from me, but I'm too broke to go for now.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Does the Turret one still work? The new Turret duration is so short, I hate it.
> 
> As far as T7 goes, there is a test location about 2 hours from me, but I'm too broke to go for now.


Yeah it still works despite losing its popularity due to the nerf. Whats good about it is that people dont expect it and when they time their scan the build looks like its early banshees forcing the opponent to build turrets instead of investing resources into units, from there on you just drop and pretty much win the game if you executed the build properly.

I would get some money and go there for sure if it was close, here in Switzerland there are barely any arcades, not even talking about Tekken ones.


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You'd be opening pretty late then, if Thor drop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easier worker harass will not make the game harder for casuals, Mwareen, you have no idea what you're talkin about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What league are you? Diamond or something? I've been all over bronze silver and gold, just trust me when we're talking about casuals


I consider casuals those under GM. I myself am a casual but am currently in Plat. However, I was top Masters for almost all of 2011, 2012, and 2013 and have beaten GM's.

Even at the Masters level drops will be devastating as most even in Masters can not defend drops well. Hell, even on the professional levels as long as you have good micro early game harass is and always will be viable. This change is only making my aggressive harass based play style even stronger.

I'm actually all for the change as now the game will be all about who can harass best building up an army while also defending from harass themselves. The pace of the game will be slower as well with no mules or chrono which benefits terran greatly.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I consider casuals those under GM. I myself am a casual but am currently in Plat. However, I was top Masters for almost all of 2011, 2012, and 2013 and have beaten GM's.
> 
> Even at the Masters level drops will be devastating as most even in Masters can not defend drops well. Hell, even on the professional levels as long as you have good micro early game harass is and always will be viable. This change is only making my aggressive harass based play style even stronger.
> 
> I'm actually all for the change as now the game will be all about who can harass best building up an army while also defending from harass themselves. The pace of the game will be slower as well with no mules or chrono which benefits terran greatly.


Trust me, it does not benefit Terran. Most the people being verbal in complaining about the changes are Terran players (happy/beastyqt). Game was designed around mules, you can't just take out the back bone of how the economy compensates for the races design and expect the game ever work.

The latest post comes from happy(who is a micro-harass terran):
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snaagp


----------



## biz1

they haven't rebalanced the game yet

i don't know why people are expecting it to be fair

there are literally a thousand things they can do to help terrans that don't involve mules


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> they haven't rebalanced the game yet
> 
> i don't know why people are expecting it to be fair
> 
> there are literally a thousand things they can do to help terrans that don't involve mules


It's not the balance that's the issue, it's the fact that the entire game was designed around these mechanics, and removing them and trying to balance them will be damn near impossible unless you start from scratch. No way this game will be legitimate by release if they go down this road, not even close. The design is the real issue.

Also almost everyone was enjoying LotV before the changes anyway, this really wasn't necessary to begin with.


----------



## DoomDash

Man I hate this patch. I went from high Diamond close to masters to mid-diamond. Terran is awful right now, and Blizzard is extremely slow to fix things. This is going to hell until they revert this crap.

Also, the only race that can recover from killed workers is Zerg. I've played a few matches where I killed 14+ early game and they could pretty easily get back in the game. Protoss and Terran could not recover from that in its current state.

On a side note, I got some things that I'm really proud of myself for getting better at and I thought I'd share:

Last time I played HotS I got semi-used to health bars always on. I played with "selected" before, but honestly it's pretty important you see the enemies health and I never got in the habit of using alt to do so. Hated health bars on because I had a hard time distinguishing my units from selected or non-selected, but now I changed it so the health bars are the same color as the team color, eliminating this problem. I kind of which there was more customablity in this area though.
I've gotten pretty good at scanning ahead of where I'm approaching. This used to be my biggest weakness, lost many games to mostly Zergs simply because I wasn't sieged.
I finally started using Widow Mines, I avoided this all of HotS, but now I'm beginning to understand how useful they can be, specifically vs Protoss. I've held all ins I wouldn't normally hold before because of them.
There are a lot more things I've improved but those are the first that come to mind. I've been writing down my faults in a note book, and I'm trying to check off the ones I do end up fixing.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Man I hate this patch. I went from high Diamond close to masters to mid-diamond. Terran is awful right now, and Blizzard is extremely slow to fix things. This is going to hell until they revert this crap.
> 
> Also, the only race that can recover from killed workers is Zerg. I've played a few matches where I killed 14+ early game and they could pretty easily get back in the game. Protoss and Terran could not recover from that in its current state.
> 
> On a side note, I got some things that I'm really proud of myself for getting better at and I thought I'd share:
> 
> Last time I played HotS I got semi-used to health bars always on. I played with "selected" before, but honestly it's pretty important you see the enemies health and I never got in the habit of using alt to do so. Hated health bars on because I had a hard time distinguishing my units from selected or non-selected, but now I changed it so the health bars are the same color as the team color, eliminating this problem. I kind of which there was more customablity in this area though.
> I've gotten pretty good at scanning ahead of where I'm approaching. This used to be my biggest weakness, lost many games to mostly Zergs simply because I wasn't sieged.
> I finally started using Widow Mines, I avoided this all of HotS, but now I'm beginning to understand how useful they can be, specifically vs Protoss. I've held all ins I wouldn't normally hold before because of them.
> There are a lot more things I've improved but those are the first that come to mind. I've been writing down my faults in a note book, and I'm trying to check off the ones I do end up fixing.


I used to do the same, it's very helpful


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I used to do the same, it's very helpful


I still don't understand why you want this change in the game >.<.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I still don't understand why you want this change in the game >.<.


It's very simple - it makes the game more like what I wanted it to be all along.

If you dig through this thread from the past year or 2, you'll find my posts where I rant about how the game is too fast, how it is too micro-dependent, how it is closer to the mechanics of an FPS or a fighter game than an RTS. I ranted about how everything has a hard counter, how the game makes every effort to diminish strategic choices with the so called "get out of jail free" cards that are larva inject, chronoboost and mule. I ranted about how 80% of the map terrain remains unused, which is not typical for an RTS.

And what we get now is this: mistakes matter more, territory control matters more, game is slower so you have the time obligation to use your brain more than your fingers, it's no longer about whose ball of death is better microed...

In short, SC2 seems to be evolving into an RTS, and that is what I like and what I want to see, that is why I approve of the changes. And not only these last changed, but everything that was changed since HotS.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It's very simple - it makes the game more like what I wanted it to be all along.
> 
> If you dig through this thread from the past year or 2, you'll find my posts where I rant about how the game is too fast, how it is too micro-dependent, how it is closer to the mechanics of an FPS or a fighter game than an RTS. I ranted about how everything has a hard counter, how the game makes every effort to diminish strategic choices with the so called "get out of jail free" cards that are larva inject, chronoboost and mule. I ranted about how 80% of the map terrain remains unused, which is not typical for an RTS.
> 
> And what we get now is this: mistakes matter more, territory control matters more, game is slower so you have the time obligation to use your brain more than your fingers, it's no longer about whose ball of death is better microed...
> 
> In short, SC2 seems to be evolving into an RTS, and that is what I like and what I want to see, that is why I approve of the changes. And not only these last changed, but everything that was changed since HotS.


Personally I feel everything you said was the same, or better before the changes, besides the slower pace, which obviously I think is the wrong direction. It just doesn't sound like you want Starcraft to be Starcraft, and you want it to be more like all the other RTS games.

Godly mechanics were always apart of high level Starcraft. The strategy is all there pre-patch, it's just faster and more intense.

Also the ability to recover from worker harass may be forgiving, but at least the game doesn't grind to halt like the alternative. And instead of the game slowing down, it stays active, and the armies can be the more decisive points in the games, rather than just workers harassed.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Godly mechanics were always apart of high level Starcraft. The strategy is all there pre-patch, it's just faster and more intense.


Godly mechanics still matter and can win the game.

And I never saw any strategy in HotS, sorry, it was more like Yu-Gi-Oh to me:
P1: I choose this build!
P2: I choose that buiild!
P1: I scouted that your build is better than mine, so I do hard counter now
P2: I am too slow to defend that hard counter, I lose
--OR--
P2: I am fast enough to use the fact that you build hard counter, and now I beat you with my amazing micro, I win.

It's like watching bots, everything is so programmed.

I watched every pro tournament in the last few years, only a handful of games were interesting to watch, and those always were the long games where the map is fully utilized, the builds are done, and the players are Forced to improvise. Like Stephano vs Lucifron, or Life vs Hero (not sure)

All the Thousands of other games were just a replay of one of the 5-6 base scenarios, which is BOOOORING!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It's very simple - it makes the game more like what I wanted it to be all along.
> 
> If you dig through this thread from the past year or 2, you'll find my posts where I rant about how the game is too fast, how it is too micro-dependent, how it is closer to the mechanics of an FPS or a fighter game than an RTS. I ranted about how everything has a hard counter, how the game makes every effort to diminish strategic choices with the so called "get out of jail free" cards that are larva inject, chronoboost and mule. I ranted about how 80% of the map terrain remains unused, which is not typical for an RTS.
> 
> And what we get now is this: mistakes matter more, territory control matters more, game is slower so you have the time obligation to use your brain more than your fingers, it's no longer about whose ball of death is better microed...
> 
> In short, SC2 seems to be evolving into an RTS, and that is what I like and what I want to see, that is why I approve of the changes. And not only these last changed, but everything that was changed since HotS.


The game has become more punishing for casuals and slower for non-casuals, its a lose - lose situation. No idea why you like the changes. You just have to learn how to play quicker instead of waiting for Blizzard to compensate for your lack of skills, thats the way I see it. Starcraft has always been a game requiring you to be quick and good at micro, look at Brood War, it was even more fast paced.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The game has become more punishing for casuals and slower for non-casuals, its a lose - lose situation. No idea why you like the changes. You just have to learn how to play quicker instead of waiting for Blizzard to compensate for your lack of skills, thats the way I see it. Starcraft has always been a game requiring you to be quick and good at micro, look at Brood War, it was even more fast paced.


I don't think you even try to read my comments, sorry, you guys just repeat "more punishing for casuals; more punishing for casuals; more punishing for casuals" and totally ignore what the actual casual here is telling you









Ok, I won't argue further, I already explained everything I think in as much detail as I can, whoever understood - great, whoever didn't - good job anyway. Have fun.

Also, "lack of skills" is wrong. "Lack of skill" is more acceptable, since the only skill I lack is having 200+ APM. I have mostly played RTS all my life. Don't go around assuming.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Godly mechanics still matter and can win the game.
> 
> And I never saw any strategy in HotS, sorry, it was more like Yu-Gi-Oh to me:
> P1: I choose this build!
> P2: I choose that buiild!
> P1: I scouted that your build is better than mine, so I do hard counter now
> P2: I am too slow to defend that hard counter, I lose
> --OR--
> P2: I am fast enough to use the fact that you build hard counter, and now I beat you with my amazing micro, I win.
> 
> It's like watching bots, everything is so programmed.
> 
> I watched every pro tournament in the last few years, only a handful of games were interesting to watch, and those always were the long games where the map is fully utilized, the builds are done, and the players are Forced to improvise. Like Stephano vs Lucifron, or Life vs Hero (not sure)
> 
> All the Thousands of other games were just a replay of one of the 5-6 base scenarios, which is BOOOORING!


No wonder you don't like it, you're looking at the game in the most simplified way possible. To me it sounds like you lack a lot of understanding of all of the interesting things that go on within the game, some of which are not immediately obvious (like hitting injects in the back ground).

I mean really if you can simplify Starcraft in that manner, you could do that with just about everything else in the world too.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No wonder you don't like it, you're looking at the game in the most simplified way possible. To me it sounds like you lack a lot of understanding of all of the interesting things that go on within the game, some of which are not immediately obvious (like hitting injects in the back ground).
> 
> I mean really if you can simplify Starcraft in that manner, you could do that with just about everything else in the world too.


Ok


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ok


I'm not trying to be mean, but it's like describing chess as people trying to make the same moves across a limited board, and it's not very exciting because of the attempts to go for what typically works. Maybe it's true the best chess players games might all start off the same or try and go for the same setups, but to pretend there isn't a lot more complicated thoughts and things going on would be just ignorant.

Starcraft is a game full of a ton of little moves that get people ahead, mind games, and many other things besides just micro/and apm. A single unit can make the difference, the right position can make the difference, the right injects, the right upgrades... the list goes on and on.

All that stuff was there with the macro mechanics intact (and without, but slower).










As far as I know you're paper crafting all this stuff anyway. I've played both...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean, but it's like describing chess as people trying to make the same moves across a limited board, and it's not very exciting because of the attempts to go for what typically works. Maybe it's true the best chess players games might all start off the same or try and go for the same setups, but to pretend there isn't a lot more complicated thoughts and things going on would be just ignorant.
> 
> Starcraft is a game full of a ton of little moves that get people ahead, mind games, and many other things besides just micro/and apm. A single unit can make the difference, the right position can make the difference, the right injects, the right upgrades... the list goes on and on.
> 
> All that stuff was there with the macro mechanics intact (and without, but slower).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know you're paper crafting all this stuff anyway. I've played both...


Again, ok.


----------



## Cybertox

I just executed a perfect 8-8-8 proxy Reaper on a Platinum Zerg. This is probably one of my best build order executions. Really a good demonstration of the build. You should check it out. I didnt even have to scout on that map, it was crystal clear how the Zerg player is going to open.

https://app.box.com/s/iug3yg0l9jnpcg1dsue7pfj0p94rr5nb


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Again, ok.


You seem to be very dismiss of a player who (IMO) is very skilled and knows a crap-ton about this game.

I might be reading your attitude wrong, but it seems kind of rude to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I just executed a perfect 8-8-8 proxy Reaper on a Platinum Zerg. This is probably one of my best build order executions. Really a good demonstration of the build. You should check it out. I didnt even have to scout on that map, it was crystal clear how the Zerg player is going to open.
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/iug3yg0l9jnpcg1dsue7pfj0p94rr5nb


You play Terran? Interesting









I used to play Protoss at high diamond, and Zerg at mid diamond level. And my Terran.... well... that was barely gold level









That was WoL though


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You seem to be very dismiss of a player who (IMO) is very skilled and knows a crap-ton about this game.
> 
> I might be reading your attitude wrong, but it seems kind of rude to me.


It seems you didn't follow the whole discussion.

That too is ok though


----------



## Cybertox

I am beating so many platinum players and a few diamond ones as well, no idea how it is even possible that I am still in Gold. Rank 1 in my division and still stuck in there with other Gold noobs. Did MKP's 1/1/1 All-in on a Platinum Terran, obviously another win.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You seem to be very dismiss of a player who (IMO) is very skilled and knows a crap-ton about this game.
> 
> I might be reading your attitude wrong, but it seems kind of rude to me.
> You play Terran? Interesting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to play Protoss at high diamond, and Zerg at mid diamond level. And my Terran.... well... that was barely gold level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was WoL though


When StarCraft 2 came out (WOL) I started playing Toss as I had intentions to do so, then prior to the release of HOTS I transitioned to Terrans and since didnt change my main race, I cant stand Protoss now, in my opinion it is such an overpowered and boring race. Colossus, Storm, Stalkers, Overcharge, Chrono Boost are so freaking op, especially against Terrans and they barely require any skill or micro. Just sit at two bases and try to survive until you get your op snowball. I really like playing as Terrans though, Zergs are interesting but not as "cool". I was Platinum with Both Protoss and Terrans but never had the opportunity to get higher than that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It seems you didn't follow the whole discussion.
> 
> That too is ok though


Seems like noone is being able to understand you, maybe your logic is just flawed?

*INB4* ok.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Seems like noone is being able to understand you, maybe your logic is just flawed?
> 
> *INB4* ok.


You guys are going great lengths just to get me to argue with you, and I don't see why, since noone ever addressed anything of what I said, arguing a point for you seems to be "just repeat my opinion enough times for him to accept it".

I see no point in this.

Ok, my logic is flawed, and I don't know the game, and this and that, and I'm wrong, whatever - O.K.










Enjoy being right, I'll enjoy playing SC until the changes get reverted (hopefully never).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You guys are going great lengths just to get me to argue with you, and I don't see why, since noone ever addressed anything of what I said, arguing a point for you seems to be "just repeat my opinion enough times for him to accept it".
> 
> I see no point in this.
> 
> Ok, my logic is flawed, and I don't know the game, and this and that, and I'm wrong, whatever - O.K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy being right, I'll enjoy playing SC until the changes get reverted (hopefully never).


Looks like you have another on your side.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/493340-qxcs-thoughts-the-removal-of-macro-mechanics#1

I've been keeping track of pro feedback here:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18710643298?page=1#2


----------



## Anti!!

Wow! So much has been said I don't really know how to respond. To expound on what Doom said. There is a lot that goes on in the background that "casuals" don't notice.

Ronnin said that:

"And I never saw any strategy in HotS, sorry, it was more like Yu-Gi-Oh to me:
P1: I choose this build!
P2: I choose that buiild!
P1: I scouted that your build is better than mine, so I do hard counter now
P2: I am too slow to defend that hard counter, I lose
--OR--
P2: I am fast enough to use the fact that you build hard counter, and now I beat you with my amazing micro, I win."

Where on my run to masters I went:

P1: I choose this build!
P2: Oh, Crap he went something that is quicker than my idea of this build.
P3: adjust and tweak to allow my build to hit sooner.
P4: This guy scouted it and now I am dead.
P5 Adjust my play again to gain map control sooner.
P6: play again.
P7: Deny map control and use scouting probe and first 4 lings to deny as much as possible.
P8: I didnt have enough units to do what I needed too.
P9: analyze myself again, crap I was supply blocked. Wait I had 35 energy sitting on my queens.
P10: play again
P11: make sure to not miss injects because I DIED without them.
P12: watch the my win rate go through the roof because I understand how to tax my opponent, deny what they see, make the most out of my macro, and micro well.

It really is how you look at it. Ronnin just has a view of what he would like the game to be. Others have their idea. Casuals have stayed casual and have not discovered some of the things that High diamond and up have found out because they want to relax and play casually. I for one love all the details of 1v1 and refining play and this makes me non-casual. Therefore I disagree with Ronnin, BUT he has his own opinion that I for one don't think should be trounced on.

However, I don't like it. lol! BRING SPITS, MULES, and Chrono back.

P.S. I did like swarming a toss, killing his probes, and seeing him STRUGGLE TO MAKE MORE> lol poor guy. That was in a tourney too. haha.


----------



## DoomDash

Yep I'm with you Anti. Tournaments function is absolutely awesome, I'll say that about this patch.

And even though I think this patch is bad for the game, I still enjoy playing the game. The game is good enough that even changes that can screw it up this much still don't make it a bad game.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think I'm soon going to cave in a pre-order this game after resisting for a few weeks now. Hopefully I'll be able to find some time to play.

As for the macro changes I don't really have an opinion as I haven't played yet, but I don't think they are unreasonable. The macro mechanics were mostly an APM sink which didn't really add much value to the game. When executing a build order you'd usually spend the first 10 minutes of the game performing the same steps in mostly the same order, whether chronoboosting the same buildings, dropping mules or injecting larva. This was a purely mechanical exercise with hardly any decision making involved. Later in the game the macro mechanics would become gimmicky and allow for easy recoveries and faster remaxes or surprise tech switches, which again don't add much value in my opinion.

I think with the new changes in place we are going to see both less deathballs and more APM used towards micro and small skirmishes throughout the game which can make the game more interesting to play and watch. I'd much rather see players spend their APM on more effective harassment or micro-intensive battles than perfect injects which you can't actually appreciate when watching the game. Broodwar did perfectly fine without mules and chronoboosts.


----------



## DoomDash

Brood War was also a completely different game. I just don't like that as a justification for the changes. Brood War was great but I don't want Brood War 2.0, I want Starcraft 2.

As a player I really never thought of the macro mechanics as taking away from any other aspect of the game, they were extremely easy to do, not really a distraction, and they did benefit the players who were efficient at them. I find them completely enjoyable, and I found myself thinking about what to do with my energy in countless games. I've told you guys before but I've lost probably 500+ games simply because I didn't use scan/mule/supply drop at the right time, but if I was just using my head a little more I could have won a lot of those games. Again if you use the argument that they are just an APM sink and don't really add anything to the game, then you could say the same about building SCV's, or potentially even units. I think there is far more of decision in calling down a mule than just building an SCV, not always but more often than not.

And @poroboszcz , not sure if you've been following LotV but it already spead up the early game so the times when it would be the brainless or APM sinky have been vastly sped up. Seriously getting the game going was incredibly fast up until the macro mechanics removal, now it's even slower than HotS, so you can expect more of that mindless APM downtime now.

I've linked this 1000x but soO managed to do everything all the other Zergs did, but also have near perfect injects, and because of that the difference between him and the other Zergs was often night and day. I don't think Blizzard should take away something that isn't hard to begin with, but is rewarding at the highest level, which they were.

Also deathballs were much more rare in LotV pre-patch, because of the fact you had to expand like CRAZY, which means you have to defend or fight all over. Now you expand much much slower, and since your workers are more valuable you don't move out as often.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/491649-the-curious-case-of-soos-macro-mechanics

but at the end of the day, I don't really care about the paper crafting, I just know the game feels bad compared to before, and I think most of you would agree if you played it.


----------



## Anti!!

That is also a very important point. You can try, but it is pointless, to form an opinion on a change in the game unless you are playing it. You have to play the game before and after. Then your opinion is at least based on facts. I know we can all get an idea and sometimes they are pretty spot on, but the rubber meets the road when you live it.


----------



## DoomDash

Won my first tournament tonight.











Also good game was good.....


That's right, 42 drones at 5:50.


----------



## biz1

Blizzard isn't happy with appealing to a small audience, so they can't just make WoL 3.0

i don't necessarily agree with them changing their audience, but I can see why they are pressured into doing so
i just think they should have made SC3 instead of alienating SC2 players, but it feels like that'll never happen so they're doing it with LotV
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> As a player I really never thought of the macro mechanics as taking away from any other aspect of the game, they were extremely easy to do, not really a distraction, and they did benefit the players who were efficient at them. I find them completely enjoyable, and I found myself thinking about what to do with my energy in countless games. I've told you guys before but I've lost probably 500+ games simply because I didn't use scan/mule/supply drop at the right time, but if I was just using my head a little more I could have won a lot of those games. Again if you use the argument that they are just an APM sink and don't really add anything to the game, then you could say the same about building SCV's, or potentially even units. I think there is far more of decision in calling down a mule than just building an SCV, not always but more often than not.


just because you could say the same thing about scv's doesn't make it wrong

the decision to make an scv every 20 seconds for the next 3 minutes involves strategy that everyone is comfortable with

making an scv every 20 seconds for the next 3 minutes is just rote execution

nobody would really complain about that if SC2 was a slower game, but the pacing is what makes it unreasonable compared to other RTS games which also lack auto-produce UI toggles, but don't get slammed as hard for it (partly because they are older games and people expected less from a UI back then)

it prohibits people from executing the strategies they want to, which limits the audience of the game

like if I want to go on the offensive with 1000 resources of stuff, I should only have to kill/disrupt an additional 200-500 resources of stuff to make that investment worthwhile
but because my APM is unable to maintain perfect timing of scvs/mules at home while coordinating an attack, I actually have to kill/disrupt an additional 900-1200 resources of stuff, which isn't realistic and which leads to defensive play and deathballs

maybe in LotV I only have to kill an additional 600-800 resources of stuff which moves it into the realm of possibility. that's hard to predict.
but I already know from playing a little that I won't fall as far behind because of slipping on the timing of injects/chronos/mules


----------



## DoomDash

I can only say the macro mechanics have never been that hard to execute and I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe that's the most frustrating part about all this to me, since they always felt intuitive and natural. Again I like SC2, and I never looked back to Brood War after it came out despite it being one of the biggest games in my life.

Well I will admit I wanted the Reaver instead of colossus







.

Tempted to go back to HotS to play with my mule, I miss it







.


----------



## DoomDash

I think I'm throwing in the towel in LotV. I've played about 50+ games and since the macro changes, balance isn't really what we're testing since that's completely screwed up, and I've made up my mind on the macro mechanics, there isn't much point in playing anymore. Game just isn't fun anymore, lots of pros already quitting or switching back to HotS.... can't learn any legit strategies since no one knows what Blizzards next steps are.

By the time they actually would be able to balance the races with this model I will have wasted at the very least a year on a broken game. I really want to play but I can't see any way of them making this play out well.

So I guess that's good bye guys! Maybe D3 now.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think I'm throwing in the towel in LotV. I've played about 50+ games and since the macro changes, balance isn't really what we're testing since that's completely screwed up, and I've made up my mind on the macro mechanics, there isn't much point in playing anymore. Game just isn't fun anymore, lots of pros already quitting or switching back to HotS.... can't learn any legit strategies since no one knows what Blizzards next steps are.
> 
> By the time they actually would be able to balance the races with this model I will have wasted at the very least a year on a broken game. I really want to play but I can't see any way of them making this play out well.
> 
> So I guess that's good bye guys! Maybe D3 now.


Gonna try to get into Platinum in HOTS until the start of Season 4, then its gonna be a goodbye from me too.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Brood War was also a completely different game. I just don't like that as a justification for the changes. Brood War was great but I don't want Brood War 2.0, I want Starcraft 2.
> 
> As a player I really never thought of the macro mechanics as taking away from any other aspect of the game, they were extremely easy to do, not really a distraction, and they did benefit the players who were efficient at them. I find them completely enjoyable, and I found myself thinking about what to do with my energy in countless games. I've told you guys before but I've lost probably 500+ games simply because I didn't use scan/mule/supply drop at the right time, but if I was just using my head a little more I could have won a lot of those games. Again if you use the argument that they are just an APM sink and don't really add anything to the game, then you could say the same about building SCV's, or potentially even units. I think there is far more of decision in calling down a mule than just building an SCV, not always but more often than not.
> 
> And @poroboszcz , not sure if you've been following LotV but it already spead up the early game so the times when it would be the brainless or APM sinky have been vastly sped up. Seriously getting the game going was incredibly fast up until the macro mechanics removal, now it's even slower than HotS, so you can expect more of that mindless APM downtime now.
> 
> I've linked this 1000x but soO managed to do everything all the other Zergs did, but also have near perfect injects, and because of that the difference between him and the other Zergs was often night and day. I don't think Blizzard should take away something that isn't hard to begin with, but is rewarding at the highest level, which they were.
> 
> Also deathballs were much more rare in LotV pre-patch, because of the fact you had to expand like CRAZY, which means you have to defend or fight all over. Now you expand much much slower, and since your workers are more valuable you don't move out as often.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/491649-the-curious-case-of-soos-macro-mechanics
> 
> but at the end of the day, I don't really care about the paper crafting, I just know the game feels bad compared to before, and I think most of you would agree if you played it.


That article is exactly why I don't go to the TL forums. They're pushing it purely from the pro side of things, they address and sumarily dismiss all other points, not because they're not valid but because they don't line up directly with their philosophy.

SC2 is a game where people watch it and play it. It's meant to draw crowds. So for example, then Blizzard says the (inject/mule/chrono)mecro mechanics aren't fun and TL comes back saying "you know what else isn't fun? Building workers so lets cut that too!" is both obtuse and perposterous.


----------



## DoomDash

Just crossing my fingers Blizzard comes to their senses, I'm heart broken.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just crossing my fingers Blizzard comes to their senses, I'm heart broken.


Pick something not terran and re-learn all the timings? Terran seem to get the worst end of the deal without the mule. Protoss are middle of the road and zerg...well they get ez mode activate.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Pick something not terran and re-learn all the timings? Terran seem to get the worst end of the deal without the mule. Protoss are middle of the road and zerg...well they get ez mode activate.


Terran for lyfe bro.


----------



## Cr4zYH3aD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I can only say the macro mechanics have never been that hard to execute and I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe that's the most frustrating part about all this to me, since they always felt intuitive and natural. Again I like SC2, and I never looked back to Brood War after it came out despite it being one of the biggest games in my life.
> 
> Well I will admit I wanted the Reaver instead of colossus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Tempted to go back to HotS to play with my mule, I miss it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Who uses mules anyway ?

Joking. What's the matter with macros in LotV?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zYH3aD*
> 
> Joking. What's the matter with macros in LotV?


They removed chrono/mule/ and made inject auto cast but only 2 larva (down from 4).


----------



## DefCoN

I can deal with all the other changes, but they kicked zerg down by allowing inject to only spawn 2 larva....I'd rather have it back to 4 and have to do it manually. Most ******ed change ever....and now it just makes it where you absolutely have to fast expand instead of one base all in / harass.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I can deal with all the other changes, but they kicked zerg down by allowing inject to only spawn 2 larva....I'd rather have it back to 4 and have to do it manually. Most ******ed change ever....and now it just makes it where you absolutely have to fast expand instead of one base all in / harass.


Everyone is basically Soo now so it works out for zerg in the long run.


----------



## DoomDash

Saw a thread on reddit asking for ghosts to be more viable, and I agree! Imagine how cool it would be to see lockdown brought back! Bio vs Mech becomes more interesting, and Bio vs Protoss as well. Maybe tone down EMP a tad, and also buff nuke damage vs buildings, and potentially even a stimmed ghost would be pretty bad ass.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Saw a thread on reddit asking for ghosts to be more viable, and I agree! Imagine how cool it would be to see lockdown brought back! Bio vs Mech becomes more interesting, and Bio vs Protoss as well. Maybe tone down EMP a tad, and also buff nuke damage vs buildings, and potentially even a stimmed ghost would be pretty bad ass.


I agree on nuke buff. Something called "a nuke" isn't allowed to be that much of a joke as it is right now.


----------



## DIYDeath

As long as EMP gets nerfed, sure, buff the Ghost.

EMP is probably the laziest, dumbest ability out there because it counters an entire race. It's a massive, massive design flaw. It should get rid of energy but shields shouldn't get mulched that badly.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> As long as EMP gets nerfed, sure, buff the Ghost.
> 
> EMP is probably the laziest, dumbest ability out there because it counters an entire race. It's a massive, massive design flaw. It should get rid of energy but shields shouldn't get mulched that badly.


Yeah go ahead and tone it down, add lock down or faster ghost movement (stim), and all of a sudden they are no longer a one trick pony.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah go ahead and tone it down, add lock down or faster ghost movement (stim), and all of a sudden they are no longer a one trick pony.


I'd support lockdown and EMP stays with the ability to deplete energy and remove shield regen for X seconds but does no shield damage itself.

That way it's more or less a way to make sure the Protoss army can't recoup after a battle rather than becoming a "blanket EMP+stim forward to win" tactic.


----------



## DoomDash

On a side note I really haven't quit playing. Shhh.


----------



## Cybertox

A buff to Ghosts would be great as now they are not really that efficient, I produce Ghosts extremely rarely, only in late games against Toss otherwise I don't even bother putting down a Ghosts Academy. I think I am done with StarCraft 2 for now, gonna start playing Diablo on Saturday. Still in Gold (Rank 1 / 1017 points) but whatever, I don't care anymore at this point in time.


----------



## DIYDeath

Another neat buff to Ghosts would be to allow the Ghost Academy to house multiple nukes and for nukes to not cost supply. Leave the cost and damage alone though.

I wouldn't mind seeing more nuke play beyond seeing it used vs a turtle player.


----------



## DoomDash

I hope they don't change tanks in medivacs, I think this is the most fun thing about LotV.

I was struggling vs Ravagers recently when playing mech, but I learned instead of getting liberators always I would add medivacs for my hellbats and tanks instead. When Ravagers do their manual attack, you pick up your siege tanks and move them before it hits, making for some really fun games to play/watch. With my old style my tanks and liberators would easily get picked off.


----------



## DIYDeath

I wouldn't count on Siege Tanks+Medivacs escaping beta unscathed. Its one of the more broken unit interactions in the game.

I get why you'd like it though, it's a neat concept. I just think it comes too early, I'd prefer to see medevacs able to pick up sieged tanks but can't drop them in sieged mode until they get an upgrade from the Fusion Core.

That gives you some siege harass early but doesn't get really stupid until mid-late game when players have enough of a base going to actually defend nonsense like that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I wouldn't count on Siege Tanks+Medivacs escaping beta unscathed. Its one of the more broken unit interactions in the game.
> 
> I get why you'd like it though, it's a neat concept. I just think it comes too early, I'd prefer to see medevacs able to pick up sieged tanks but can't drop them in sieged mode until they get an upgrade from the Fusion Core.
> 
> That gives you some siege harass early but doesn't get really stupid until mid-late game when players have enough of a base going to actually defend nonsense like that.


At first I thought it would be too strong, but really it's strongest in TvT, excluding a few maps were its pretty good against Zerg. I don't think it will be changed, it's actually quite fair, especially since tanks don't even one shot workers.

So yeah I don't think it will be changed.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I wouldn't count on Siege Tanks+Medivacs escaping beta unscathed. Its one of the more broken unit interactions in the game.
> 
> I get why you'd like it though, it's a neat concept. I just think it comes too early, I'd prefer to see medevacs able to pick up sieged tanks but can't drop them in sieged mode until they get an upgrade from the Fusion Core.
> 
> That gives you some siege harass early but doesn't get really stupid until mid-late game when players have enough of a base going to actually defend nonsense like that.


That'd be some seriously broken "lore", so to say.
So the medivac picks up the tank, which reverts back to normal while being carried, unless a magical upgrade is done, which "allows it" to not revert to tank mode? That's not serious


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That'd be some seriously broken "lore", so to say.
> So the medivac picks up the tank, which reverts back to normal while being carried, unless a magical upgrade is done, which "allows it" to not revert to tank mode? That's not serious


No more lore breaking than Hellbats taking up more room in a Medivac than a Helion.

Plus DK and the rest of Blizzard have already tested the change I suggested and will make said change as a fallback if they think the new medivac+tank combo is just too much.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3a6lcy/what_if_siege_tanks_can_get_picked_up_by_medivacs/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> At first I thought it would be too strong, but really it's strongest in TvT, excluding a few maps were its pretty good against Zerg. I don't think it will be changed, it's actually quite fair, especially since tanks don't even one shot workers.
> 
> So yeah I don't think it will be changed.






I don't think I'll ever agree with you there, it's absurdly broken right now because it bypasses the entire balacing factor of the Siege Tank - and it happens early, which makes the issue exponentially more significant. If it happened later in the game, there'd be no issues.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I saw a game the other day where SuperNova got probably 40+ kills with one tank, but the only reason was because he did enough damage with his marines to prevent Zerg from teching or having much money. The thing is though, all of that can be bypassed if it's handled properly, like those guys are depending on purely roach/ravager, you get a few queens to deal with it and transfuse each other, and have lings follow the medivacs.

I guess the timing could be slowed down, just don't remove it entirely. I know that the timing of it when doing a FE is not that bad though, I usually only get like 3-4 kills unless TvT.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I saw a game the other day where SuperNova got probably 40+ kills with one tank, but the only reason was because he did enough damage with his marines to prevent Zerg from teching or having much money. The thing is though, all of that can be bypassed if it's handled properly, like those guys are depending on purely roach/ravager, you get a few queens to deal with it and transfuse each other, and have lings follow the medivacs.
> 
> I guess the timing could be slowed down, just don't remove it entirely. I know that the timing of it when doing a FE is not that bad though, I usually only get like 3-4 kills unless TvT.


That's all I want, for it to come 1-2 minutes later. I like the idea, it just hits too fast for what it is.


----------



## ronnin426850

I like how since the release of WoL everyone is only dancing around the subject of un-sieged tanks being f-in worthless


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I like how since the release of WoL everyone is only dancing around the subject of un-sieged tanks being f-in worthless


They aren't worthless early game vs low amount of targets







. Like a single unsieged tank does very high DPS to stalkers and roaches, so it holds its own quite well assuming the numbers aren't crazy. Pair in repair and it's pretty strong. Yeah they aren't really viable past that though.

At least they added turret tracking to the tank in LotV.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> They aren't worthless early game vs low amount of targets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Like a single unsieged tank does very high DPS to stalkers and roaches, so it holds its own quite well assuming the numbers aren't crazy. Pair in repair and it's pretty strong. Yeah they aren't really viable past that though.
> 
> At least they added turret tracking to the tank in LotV.


Turret tracking as in it can fire while moving? If that's what you mean doesn't that sound like a little bit too much? Imagine stutter stepping tanks. Except you're not stutter stepping them. You're moving them back, away from the enemy smoothly and the tanks keep firing.

It's the exact reason why the Diamondback wasn't added to WoL multiplayer.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Turret tracking as in it can fire while moving? If that's what you mean doesn't that sound like a little bit too much? Imagine stutter stepping tanks. Except you're not stutter stepping them. You're moving them back, away from the enemy smoothly and the tanks keep firing.
> 
> It's the exact reason why the Diamondback wasn't added to WoL multiplayer.


No, it means not having to re-target the cannon on every stop. You still have to stop in order to shoot, but it takes less time to perform the shot, because it has been tracking the target while moving.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> No, it means not having to re-target the cannon on every stop. You still have to stop in order to shoot, but it takes less time to perform the shot, because it has been tracking the target while moving.


I like that concept, would be nice to see tanks be more efficient when out of siege mode.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I like that concept, would be nice to see tanks be more efficient when out of siege mode.


And it's one step closer to making sense too







If they reduce the firing and moving speed 2 times, and make them able to shoot on the move, I might just rediscover my hope for humanity


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> And it's one step closer to making sense too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they reduce the firing and moving speed 2 times, and make them able to shoot on the move, I might just rediscover my hope for humanity


That could be worth looking into: slower attacking and moving siege tanks but they can attack while they move. I think it would need testing because it could potentially make unsieged tanks even worse. If that's somehow possible...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That could be worth looking into: slower attacking and moving siege tanks but they can attack while they move. I think it would need testing because it could potentially make unsieged tanks even worse. If that's somehow possible...


Also Immortals have turret tracking now as well FYI.

Looks like they are meeting people half way, but I still hate the idea of auto-cast since I liked being rewarded for hitting good timings.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18704214130

Also they increased the delay in siege tanks shooting when dropping now. I guess that's what you wanted, and I can probably live with that.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Also Immortals have turret tracking now as well FYI.
> 
> Looks like they are meeting people half way, but I still hate the idea of auto-cast since I liked being rewarded for hitting good timings.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18704214130
> 
> Also they increased the delay in siege tanks shooting when dropping now. I guess that's what you wanted, and I can probably live with that.


Mule is auto-cast?!


----------



## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Mule is auto-cast?!


lol, they should introduce heroes to LotV and call it WC4.

They are dumbing down the game way too much. Macro is going to be hardly important at all now. Now it will mostly be about who has better micro.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> lol, they should introduce heroes to LotV and call it WC4.
> 
> They are dumbing down the game way too much. Macro is going to be hardly important at all now. Now it will mostly be about who has better micro.


And base positioning and sim city


----------



## DIYDeath

Yeah, not a big fan of these changes. That bit about the Tempest filling a needed unit role as the HotS version was silly, Void Rays did the same job and weren't nearly as niche.

Protoss lack a way to deal with massed light air, which is what the Tempest was originally supposed to deal with.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah, not a big fan of these changes. That bit about the Tempest filling a needed unit role as the HotS version was silly, Void Rays did the same job and weren't nearly as niche.
> 
> Protoss lack a way to deal with massed light air, which is what the Tempest was originally supposed to deal with.


Phoenix can do nicely, if control is good.


----------



## DoomDash

Tempest is the dumbest unit in the game IMO. I don't understand David Kim sometimes.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Tempest is the dumbest unit in the game IMO. I don't understand David Kim sometimes.


Did you just lose to tempests?









I am done with SCII, already rolling a Barb in Season 4. Currently lvl 41.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Did you just lose to tempests?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am done with SCII, already rolling a Barb in Season 4. Currently lvl 41.


D3 is great


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Phoenix can do nicely, if control is good.


Phoenix are only decent at that in smaller numbers, once you start hitting critical masses of mutas phoenix don't do enough.

Archons are just jokes because any self respecting zerg will not fight multiple archons with mutas, they'll just go kill your base. Storms can be dodged easily, cannons are trash, blink stalkers are trash (against large amounts of mutas). Photon Overcharge just means go kill a different base or snipe the pylons that are shooting.

Then there's the problem of phoenix being so niche that the following tech switch just kills because you're so heavily invested in a non-flexible unit.

The only anwser to massed light air units Protoss has is not not let it happen, which is a little silly, it's not like this is a end game unit composition where it takes substantial time to build into it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Did you just lose to tempests?


No but a range 15 air unit that doesn't require much micro just bothers me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Did you just lose to tempests?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am done with SCII, already rolling a Barb in Season 4. Currently lvl 41.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> D3 is great


I would play D3 but I want to make sure I hit masters in LotV so I want to be ready.... and D3 I get too into so I don't want to even start.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Phoenix are only decent at that in smaller numbers, once you start hitting critical masses of mutas phoenix don't do enough.
> 
> Archons are just jokes because any self respecting zerg will not fight multiple archons with mutas, they'll just go kill your base. Storms can be dodged easily, cannons are trash, blink stalkers are trash (against large amounts of mutas). Photon Overcharge just means go kill a different base or snipe the pylons that are shooting.
> 
> Then there's the problem of phoenix being so niche that the following tech switch just kills because you're so heavily invested in a non-flexible unit.
> 
> The only anwser to massed light air units Protoss has is not not let it happen, which is a little silly, it's not like this is a end game unit composition where it takes substantial time to build into it.


Phoenix is somewhat useful in PvZ even after Z switches away from mutas, you can use them to hit queens and ultras, and if he switches to hydras, go hit his workers. If he managed to switch efficiently from mutas to hydras, he probably doesn't have spore, and if he does, just use the phoenix to blanket damage for immortals.

I don't know, I always die from hydras


----------



## DoomDash

Phoenix's are cool, even though I thought they were a bit silly since they are extremely easy to micro... but they actually make for a bunch of cool situations and do require attention to be effective.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Phoenix's are cool, even though I thought they were a bit silly since they are extremely easy to micro... but they actually make for a bunch of cool situations and do require attention to be effective.


I wouldn't say "extremely", because they need to keep moving in order to survive, and you wouldn't want to run into any AA. They are very fast, so screen scrolling becomes a problem, and if you have to split them at any point, they become horrible to control


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I wouldn't say "extremely", because they need to keep moving in order to survive, and you wouldn't want to run into any AA. They are very fast, so screen scrolling becomes a problem, and if you have to split them at any point, they become horrible to control


I still would say extremely, they are an extremely fast air unit that doesn't require any form of stutter step, I don't know how you could get much easier than that. Any micro they do have is no harder than any other units in the game, and I specifically said they at least have to be managed to be effective, which is the trade off that lets me say I actually don't have anything against them.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Phoenix is somewhat useful in PvZ even after Z switches away from mutas, you can use them to hit queens and ultras, and if he switches to hydras, go hit his workers. If he managed to switch efficiently from mutas to hydras, he probably doesn't have spore, and if he does, just use the phoenix to blanket damage for immortals.
> 
> I don't know, I always die from hydras


Phoenix can't pick up ultras, If your opponent sees air they'd have to be an idiot not to get spores. Unless they like losing to Oracles.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Phoenix is somewhat useful in PvZ even after Z switches away from mutas, *you can use them to hit queens and ultras*, and if he switches to hydras, go hit his workers. If he managed to switch efficiently from mutas to hydras, he probably doesn't have spore, and if he does, just use the phoenix to blanket damage for immortals.


lol


----------



## DoomDash

So I've been watching SuperNova play LotV for awhile now, and vs Protoss he often opens 2 cloaked ghost rushes, and just targets probes. Since so many Protoss go Oracle or Adepts chances of an observer is pretty slim, and ghosts 2 shot probes so it can be quite effective. Got 22 probe kills my first game, this is pretty cool







.


----------



## Alex132

That's pretty brutal, I can imagine how frustrating that harass must be


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So I've been watching SuperNova play LotV for awhile now, and vs Protoss he often opens 2 cloaked ghost rushes, and just targets probes. Since so many Protoss go Oracle or Adepts chances of an observer is pretty slim, and ghosts 2 shot probes so it can be quite effective. Got 22 probe kills my first game, this is pretty cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


If that becomes a trend, we might retire the Reaper


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> If that becomes a trend, we might retire the Reaper


It's pretty easy to counter if you think it's coming really. A couple guys blindly make robotics facilities since this/banshee/mines could also happen. It's been about 50/50 with success rate for me atm. My favorite thing about it is that ghosts own adepts in battles, as well as oracles since you can emp their attack away, and they are light anyway.


----------



## Anti!!

Yes, I watched this slaughter. It could have been 30 probes if the ghost at the natural had not shot a stalker 80 times lol. (Doom had to macro at some point. lol)


----------



## DoomDash

Man this patch is so wonky, I haven't maxed out once I don't think, that's how slow it is. Also never get 3 armories anymore, or block off my ramps at the naturals since it feels like I can never afford anything. Really looking forward to more income next patch (again).

This patch king of the 1 base builds lol.

Also I don't know why anyone wouldn't play on hybrid settings if they play MP! Just feels so much better for some reason.

*EDIT*

Skytoss is so lame. Seriously lame.


----------



## DIYDeath

I've been trying out queenless zerg and instead going pure macro hatch. You get ess larva but they regenerate much, much faster.

It makes LMB so swarmy its hilarious, 100 strong ling swarms partolling the map because you don't care if they die. Mutas under tight control, proding for an opening and if need be, massive bane busts that destroy entire armies.

It's like vs zerg you cannot let them get fast bases, not because of the economy but because of the additional production.


----------



## DoomDash

Queens are so good though.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Queens are so good though.


Yeah, they move in all directions


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yeah, they move in all directions


No really, they are pretty useful for base defense and even offensively.

http://i.imgur.com/H8WhPLl.png
Won't be missing this version of the game. Like I said I haven't maxed out once, no money.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No really, they are pretty useful for base defense and even offensively.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/H8WhPLl.png
> Won't be missing this version of the game. Like I said I haven't maxed out once, no money.


Depends on how you play at this point. If you use macro hatcheries everywhere instead of queens you

1) Don't need to make many overlords
2) Don't have to worry much about creep spread
3) Have much faster regenerating larva
4) You simply don't care if you lose 2-3 bases because with the sheer amount of time it takes to kill your base you'll have ample time to base race with cracklings.

You also get a faster economy going and by 5 minutes you can easly have 35+ drones on 4 bases with 20+ speedlings to keep the enemy in base.

Macro hatch is shaping up to be super viable, I predict it'll be useful in ZvT and ZvP.

I've been doing hatch x2 before pool off of an extractor trick then pool, then another hatch then extractor trick 1 more time. Then I get an overlord. You should have around a 100 mineral bank if you timed it properly which you can eiher save for 3 seconds as ur next hatchery finishes and un-supply blocks you or you can buy an ovie if you need the additional supply room to breathe.


----------



## Cybertox

I am so glad I am done with SC2 for now, really enjoying my time with Diablo, so much more laid back and rewarding.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I am so glad I am done with SC2 for now, really enjoying my time with Diablo, so much more laid back and rewarding.


+1, I gave up SC for a while when HotS came out, played mainly D3 and my impression was the same.
Now I'm playing the other HotS - Heroes of the Storm, and it's not as enjoyable as D3, but has the potential for being a bit more rewarding







I recommend people to try it out in case you still haven't, it's worth looking into another well made Blizzard game


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> +1, I gave up SC for a while when HotS came out, played mainly D3 and my impression was the same.
> Now I'm playing the other HotS - Heroes of the Storm, and it's not as enjoyable as D3, but has the potential for being a bit more rewarding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend people to try it out in case you still haven't, it's worth looking into another well made Blizzard game


I played Heroes, its a decent game and has a lot of potential. I stopped playing it since I got bored a bit of the battlegrounds and moved unto SC2, now I am playing Diablo, might get back to Heroes once a big updates comes out, adding a reasonable amount of content. I liked the game but its a bit too casual for my liking and you depend way too much on your allies and other people, your skill alone doesn't matter as much admit does in other games.

Be sure to join the discussion in the game's official thread which I have posted:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1555415/heroes-of-the-storm-information-discussion-thread


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I played Heroes, its a decent game and has a lot of potential. I stopped playing it since I got bored a bit of the battlegrounds and moved unto SC2, now I am playing Diablo, might get back to Heroes once a big updates comes out, adding a reasonable amount of content. I liked the game but its a bit too casual for my liking and you depend way too much on your allies and other people, your skill alone doesn't matter as much admit does in other games.
> 
> Be sure to join the discussion in the game's official thread which I have posted:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1555415/heroes-of-the-storm-information-discussion-thread


Cool


----------



## DoomDash

Even having not played in almost a year I've already played more D3 than probably anyone but like 2 people on the forums, but even them I out played when I did play.

SC2 is more rewarding to me though, even if I love Diablo. Nothing beats the satisfaction of winning a hard fought game against a real person. This is why I love SC2 so much.


----------



## DoomDash

Latest LotV balance changes:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19886262/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-september-3-2015-9-3-2015

Ravagers are going to be so broken, calling it now.

Also offensive pylons photon over charge will be funny.

Wow its so nice having money, but I'm not used to it anymore lol. I don't like the auto-cast mule but anything is better than last patch.


----------



## biz1

when you're on a deadline, it's easier to nerf something that's overpowered than to buff something that's weak

if this is actually coming out on time, their top priority needs to be getting the new units/abilities to a state where they're basically absurdly OP so people will figure out the most effective uses asap


----------



## DIYDeath

HotS Tempests. Arg. Why?


----------



## DoomDash

Lost to a offensive photon overcharge pylon rush. lol. Protoss never change!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Even having not played in almost a year I've already played more D3 than probably anyone but like 2 people on the forums, but even them I out played when I did play.
> 
> SC2 is more rewarding to me though, even if I love Diablo. Nothing beats the satisfaction of winning a hard fought game against a real person. This is why I love SC2 so much.


Yeah, Diablo is mainly about how much free time (and luck/friends helping) a person has and even in the most intense GRifts competing for leaderboards it's not as demanding as SC2 (you literally have 1 character to control with 6 different skills/buttons, 7 if you count potion). A sprinkle of knowledge helps but nowhere near the amount you need to be competitive in SC2.

This can be exhausting though, as a rewarding/well played game of SC2 can be so demanding that it is no longer relaxing/fun.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yeah, Diablo is mainly about how much free time (and luck/friends helping) a person has and even in the most intense GRifts competing for leaderboards it's not as demanding as SC2 (you literally have 1 character to control with 6 different skills/buttons, 7 if you count potion). A sprinkle of knowledge helps but nowhere near the amount you need to be competitive in SC2.
> 
> This can be exhausting though, as a rewarding/well played *game of SC2 can be so demanding that it is no longer relaxing/fun.*


My main problem with SC2, I just can't enjoy it due to that, its just utter stress, frustration and anticipation.


----------



## DoomDash

Risk nothing gain nothing. I think the stress is exactly why its so rewarding when you win, and I must admit I respect people a little less for avoiding the challenge. I think it's a sign of a good game when it matters so much to people.

Personally I really only get stressed when I'm on a roll on the ladder, since I want my ladder points/promotions







. I may have to talk myself into mentally hitting the queue button.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I respect people a little less for avoiding the challenge.


Not everyone plays games to prove something. Some people just want to relax and have fun. And don't tell me RTS was never fun


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Not everyone plays games to prove something. Some people just want to relax and have fun. And don't tell me RTS was never fun


I don't really buy that for most people. If people find the game fun without the challenge of an opponent then why they not just play AI? I think everyone who plays MP at least on some level wants to win, which would also on some level mean they want to prove something. Maybe some people are better at denying that, but for the most part I just think that's a defeatist personality.

In the end that's just my opinion, but I'm the type of person who will dedicate a ton of time to get good at games, and I find most peoples attitudes towards games as weak. People would like the games at higher level but they are unwilling to accept some defeats until they get there.

This is why I wish I lived in Korea or Japan, they for the most part are still hard workers when it comes to video games, and that's why they are typically the best. Westerners are spoiled and always looking for instant gratification.

IMO







.

*Also I wanted to add that I do love the new Photon Overcharge, it's extremely cool. It leads to some cool offensive builds, defensively its interesting because Pylon placement becomes a bit more tactical, etc. Props to Blizzard on this one. Also the old one was stupid.*

*2nd edit*
Maru is a god of TvP, seriously. Classic's PvT is SICK but Maru can still pick him apart.

*3rd edit*
I wish SC2 was a bit more popular on oc.net, like the good old days. I just want to talk about it all the time but I have to wait hours and hours for a response







.


----------



## Cybertox

You know DoomDash, there are other things in life apart from video games. I would rather have a good career in Business and Entrepreneurship in which I am graduating than be very good at SC2 as a westerner. Uni started for me again and it is rather demanding to keep up with it and play games so when I do have the time to play games I would like to take this time to relax and enjoy it, hence why I started playing Diablo again, SC2 was fun to some extent during my holidays but I grew tired of it due to the reasons I stated in my previous post. And saying that you respect people avoiding challenge in games less is kind of stupid, because games are just games, I would understand if it would concern challenges in real life which we all have to face but video games are just not important in that regard.

Concerning activity, OCN hasnt been doing good in terms of it generally speaking and not only the SC2 thread is suffering. There are so many good discussions to be had about so many interesting things yet none of that occurs due to absence of activity and initiative.


----------



## DefCoN

I have to disagree with you Cybertox on Games not being a priority in life. Some people make a living through various means of competitive and/or non-competitive gaming. So to say that no one takes it seriously or shouldn't is wrong. Sorry you feel that way....some people treat it as a job, while others don't. I can respect that.

Then there are the people who are like me, who make decent livings, but choose not to gamble with the college degree era. I refuse to be in debt for the rest of my life. I never attended college and I do just fine. I also refuse to work in a corporate environment because I generally hate everyone equally and am not a very social person in the real world.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I have to disagree with you Cybertox on Games not being a priority in life. Some people make a living through various means of competitive and/or non-competitive gaming. So to say that no one takes it seriously or shouldn't is wrong. Sorry you feel that way....some people treat it as a job, while others don't. I can respect that.
> 
> Then there are the people who are like me, who make decent livings, but choose not to gamble with the college degree era. I refuse to be in debt for the rest of my life. I never attended college and I do just fine. I also refuse to work in a corporate environment because I generally hate everyone equally and am not a very social person in the real world.


I am not denying the fact that you can make money by playing games, some players tend to earn quite high salaries due to being sponsored by successful companies but those are very high caliber players and are mostly the minority. The amount of players who make reasonable amounts of money in the gaming industry is rather small compared to people who have a profession in the Business and Entrepreneurial industry. For me gaming is interesting and a really fun hobby but I cant endure it for very long, especially as of late I find myself more at the gym or working at something when I am not at uni enduring 6 hours long lectures. Despite games becoming more advanced technologically speaking, my interest fades slowly but steadily. In life there is a lot more to it despite sitting in front of a monitor.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> at uni enduring 6 hours long lectures. Despite games becoming more advanced technologically speaking, my interest fades slowly but steadily. In life there is a lot more to it despite sitting in front of a monitor.


You make the choice to "endure" those 6hr long lectures. Me personally, there is more to life than wasting 6hrs of my time listening to someone preach **** I can learn on the internet for free so should I choose.

I have more going on in my life than to waste it working & going to college. I have lots of projects in the works that will generate a lot of revenue if they hit their projected potential. I also have a nice family planned vacation coming up for the kids. Probably heading to Hawaii's disney resort. Plan on building a overkill pc as well in the next 6 months.









Can't box everyone together bro, you don't know everyone's stories. Seems to me you're not happy from your posts. Change your life if thats the case, only you can do it....no one else will.

If gaming doesn't make you happy, focus that energy on something that will make you happy instead of wasting it.

Anyway, going way OT here. I can't wait til I get done with work in 30mins. Going to play around with the new protoss cheesey build.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You know DoomDash, there are other things in life apart from video games. I would rather have a good career in Business and Entrepreneurship in which I am graduating than be very good at SC2 as a westerner. Uni started for me again and it is rather demanding to keep up with it and play games so when I do have the time to play games I would like to take this time to relax and enjoy it, hence why I started playing Diablo again, SC2 was fun to some extent during my holidays but I grew tired of it due to the reasons I stated in my previous post. And saying that you respect people avoiding challenge in games less is kind of stupid, because games are just games, I would understand if it would concern challenges in real life which we all have to face but video games are just not important in that regard.
> 
> Concerning activity, OCN hasnt been doing good in terms of it generally speaking and not only the SC2 thread is suffering. There are so many good discussions to be had about so many interesting things yet none of that occurs due to absence of activity and initiative.


I have never found anything interesting enough to go to school for or even have a career in, I think jobs are basically the biggest waste of life around, and if I didn't have to work I never would.

I'm jealous of anyone who can be happy doing all that stuff, seriously. I'm not sure I could even imagine a job that doesn't make me down right depressed. If you only knew how much I struggled my entire life doing work I was never interested in....

Anyway you have to realize I'm talking to people who are going out of their way to post in a thread about a game they are obviously interested in on some level. I just find it hard to believe that people would go that far out of their way to for something they don't feel some what passionate about, and I believe if they are passionate about a MP game they would want to be good at it. I'm not going out there and calling out players who played the campaign with no intentions of playing multiplayer games or something.

I'm more hard on me than anyone else, I will always be some what disappointed if I never reach grand master.

I guess I shouldn't expect people to understand me, or be like me, but I do have a feeling there are a lot of people out there who would really enjoy games like this to an extent that they can't even imagine, if they would just over come a fear or weakness, or avoidance of effort.

My wife says I lack empathy to view points I don't understand or agree with logically so I can seem a bit harsh.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Risk nothing gain nothing. I think the stress is exactly why its so rewarding when you win, and I must admit I respect people a little less for avoiding the challenge. I think it's a sign of a good game when it matters so much to people.
> 
> Personally I really only get stressed when I'm on a roll on the ladder, since I want my ladder points/promotions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I may have to talk myself into mentally hitting the queue button.


The worry about clicking play when I was rank 9 masters is what stopped my Masters run cold.








I regret stopping now. My record history shows my as a rank 79 masters by the end of the season since I did not play another single game after that..

On another note.

I have found that great multi tasking and multi prong attacks still has a place in LoTV. I was playing a ZvZ (Which is another subject of its own!). I opened hatch first and realized by scouting that my plus 1 was way ahead of the enemy. So, I put a roach hydra push together before his +1s completed. I was doing rather good and pushing in, however, I messed up my rally point and my reinforcements stopped cold. So, he had defender's advantage and thwarted me. I messed up and should have killed his third instead of sniping upgrades. So, after this, needless to say, I was behind on my third and could not waste any more larva on drones. (Especially with injects being ez mode for everyone. This used to be an area I could shine in and get a "resource" advantage..) So, I had to get 2/2 done, grab lurkers, and push again. By this time he is grabbing a 4th, and I am barely keeping up in army size. However, his upgrades were still behind and he had no lurkers. So, I push again. This time I am leap frogging my lurkers, pushing him back, and I manage to snipe his third. My rally point didn't fail this time and I sent a squad of roaches to his fourth. Now, this is where my original point comes in. Even though my macro, etc isn't as sharp these days, I am still able to multi task, and tax my enemy with apm. He sends his army to save his fourth, but I am stutter stepping past his mineral line killing drones, and avoiding a fight I can't win. I then have another squad of roaches that walked into his natural as his reinforcements pass by one by one getting sniped.

At this time I see a ling run by in my base. So, I get two lurkers and some roaches to stop this from being a base race. I then go back to his natural where my roaches have been killing drones and run them into his main, snipe his lurker den, and roach warren. This is the time his main army finally makes it home to save his hive.

Back at home my lurkers and roaches were able to save my tech buildings and lair. I also still have my nat and third. Mr. 4 base only has his nat, and main with almost no drones. The rage commenced on his side. He was kicking himself, because during all of the confusion, he had left his main army somewhere between 4th and 3rd base land and due to his lack of apm did not notice it and lost his ability to make units for far too long to stop the impending final push. Fun Fun Fun.

In the end the guy calmed down, realized I used to be masters, and asked what he did wrong.

Finally, about this zvz bull. There are SO MANY PATCH ZERGS AGAIN!!!!! It is killing me..


----------



## DoomDash

Feeling that anxiety right about now! Still playing gimmicky but it's been working out!



*edit* annnnddd right after I posted that I majorly crashed and burned. forever diamond now.


----------



## DIYDeath

Sweet the underdog took the win from Hydra. Hydra really botched game 1 but that last game was well deserved. Nothing wrong with being forever daimond, you're still better than 80% of all the players on your server.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Sweet the underdog took the win from Hydra. Hydra really botched game 1 but that last game was well deserved. Nothing wrong with being forever daimond, you're still better than 80% of all the players on your server.


Also I'm not sure how accurate lotv is, because it's all one server, so technically I'm playing with Euro/Koreans etc as well. But still I've gotten so close to masters a few times, it's just frustrating to do extremely well in huge streaks, and then do extremely poorly in huge streaks. I just want back in







.

and yeah I saw that, Hydra didn't look super impressive.

Opening ghosts TvP is the most fun opener ever! But damn nukes are bad.


----------



## DoomDash

Got a quick 3 replay pack of my Ghost TvP in LotV for anyone interested. Into mech so its a bit different than what most people would follow up a ghost opener with. I must be like 85% win ratio vs toss right now! I don't know if this makes Protoss feel the need to stick to ground units or what since my biggest weakness (skytoss) I haven't seen in awhile.

You'll see how big of a difference it makes manually targeting probes vs doing it automatically.... every time I attack a unit or building believe me its an accident or neglect. But this build is so versitile, I absolutely love it. It also helps me want to pay for a couple ghosts with my mech army, something I typically slacked. Still slacking on nukes but I've been throwing a few out there here and there. As I said above, they really suck, if they were better I'd probably remember to use them a little more.

GhostTvPnew.zip 227k .zip file


Soooo mucchhhh funnnn.

*EDIT*

Will be interesting if they change the adept to armored. My ghost opener will be a little less good, but tanks will be more viable.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Got a quick 3 replay pack of my Ghost TvP in LotV for anyone interested. Into mech so its a bit different than what most people would follow up a ghost opener with. I must be like 85% win ratio vs toss right now! I don't know if this makes Protoss feel the need to stick to ground units or what since my biggest weakness (skytoss) I haven't seen in awhile.
> 
> You'll see how big of a difference it makes manually targeting probes vs doing it automatically.... every time I attack a unit or building believe me its an accident or neglect. But this build is so versitile, I absolutely love it. It also helps me want to pay for a couple ghosts with my mech army, something I typically slacked. Still slacking on nukes but I've been throwing a few out there here and there. As I said above, they really suck, if they were better I'd probably remember to use them a little more.
> 
> GhostTvPnew.zip 227k .zip file
> 
> 
> Soooo mucchhhh funnnn.
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> Will be interesting if they change the adept to armored. My ghost opener will be a little less good, but tanks will be more viable.


I've never played Terran much, I'm a z or p player. I'm pretty terrible at the game too now that I just started playing again. High Diamond protoss/zerg player back before hots. Now I'm rank 1 silver lolol

You should do some replays of you doing z/p so I can learn. I think you're masters if I remember right?


----------



## Pandora51

So who do you think will win today?

My Guess is:
MarineLorD
Snute
Hydra
Jaedong

Hydra or Elazer is pretty hard. If Hydra plays like yesterday it could be either way.
And I will always be for Jaedong







Hopefully he is able to make it.

I think I should start playing again. Im having a good time again watching WCS and I might look into the beta again. My original plan was to wait for the release but its still far away


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> So who do you think will win today?
> 
> My Guess is:
> MarineLorD
> Snute
> Hydra
> Jaedong
> 
> Hydra or Elazer is pretty hard. If Hydra plays like yesterday it could be either way.
> And I will always be for Jaedong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully he is able to make it.
> 
> I think I should start playing again. Im having a good time again watching WCS and I might look into the beta again. My original plan was to wait for the release but its still far away


That's why I started playing again...the beta is really fun. It's hard to go back to playing HoTs because the startout gameplay is so much slower than LoTV. So be prepared for that if you play a lot in the beta. It sucks going back lol.


----------



## Pandora51

Yeah I will do. Thanks
Im playing sc2 for 5 years now and there was a break necessary.

Broodlord winfestor time was pretty awful. Swarmhost in Hots continued to annoy me.
And now TvZ (mech), PvZ and PvT is still annyoing from time to time.

Also many mates and friends don't play anymore. Its hard to find enough people for some great 4vs4 at the evening.
Hopefully times will change in LotV. It does not look bad so far. Im really looking forward to 1vs1, archon mode and teamgames.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I've never played Terran much, I'm a z or p player. I'm pretty terrible at the game too now that I just started playing again. High Diamond protoss/zerg player back before hots. Now I'm rank 1 silver lolol
> 
> You should do some replays of you doing z/p so I can learn. I think you're masters if I remember right?


I'm formerly masters (10x), but in LotV I'm only high Diamond.

Honestly I wouldn't be able to help with Z or P much, since I'm exclusively Terran. DIYDeath or Anti!! are Diamond~ players and one plays P and the other Z if you have any specific questions.

Predictions:
MarineLord
Snute
Hydra tho I'd like Elazer again was impressed yesterday.
ForGG or Jaedong.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Yeah I will do. Thanks
> Im playing sc2 for 5 years now and there was a break necessary.
> 
> Broodlord winfestor time was pretty awful. Swarmhost in Hots continued to annoy me.
> And now TvZ (mech), PvZ and PvT is still annyoing from time to time.
> 
> Also many mates and friends don't play anymore. Its hard to find enough people for some great 4vs4 at the evening.
> Hopefully times will change in LotV. It does not look bad so far. Im really looking forward to 1vs1, archon mode and teamgames.


I actually enjoyed infestor / broodlords lol back in wol, it was very fun....thats probably how I got so high with zerg back then lolol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I actually enjoyed infestor / broodlords lol back in wol, it was very fun....thats probably how I got so high with zerg back then lolol


You're in luck, Broodlord/Corruptor/Viper is just as strong.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I actually enjoyed infestor / broodlords lol back in wol, it was very fun....thats probably how I got so high with zerg back then lolol


argh!









Well I felt so lost as protoss (high master) because it was so hard to do anything against this style. Immortal push and 3 base colossi push was always a solution and in fact pretty annyoing for zergs. But I refused to play immortal pushes at all.
So I made it quite often into the lategame and lost alot while being better or atleast more active. It was alot easier to make an unforgiving mistake as protoss. And it was pretty much wear and tear all the time. Similar to swarmhosts in Hots.

Not saying it was easier as zerg at all and I played some master zerg at this time. Can't say I didn't enjoy those lategame ZvPs


----------



## DoomDash

New Community feedback. Mules back to hots style! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18596068245?page=1


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> New Community feedback. Mules back to hots style! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18596068245?page=1


Thank god.


----------



## Pandora51

What was the change in the first place?

Are there already some good openers / basic builds for protoss in LotV?
I don't want to start to play some 1vs1 without any clue









But its getting interesting lately. I have the feeling I have missed alot already and need to find out about the game changes. Atleast to complain


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> What was the change in the first place?
> 
> Are there already some good openers / basic builds for protoss in LotV?
> I don't want to start to play some 1vs1 without any clue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its getting interesting lately. I have the feeling I have missed alot already and need to find out about the game changes. Atleast to complain


They removed chrono boost, mules, and made inject auto-cast @ 2 larva instead of 4. Then the next patch they made chrono work entirely differently, mules back but on auto-cast and don't cost energy, and larva inject auto-cast but at 3.

*edit*

Now that I'm winning TvP almost every match I'm losing almost every TvZ. Zergs are going roach ravager and I'm not sure there is a counter with mech, in fact I think this is one of the hardest counters I've ever seen. They just pick off tanks and liberators like its nothing. Can't believe Blizzard even tried a range 13 upgrade, but I know it's just a matter of time before it's removed, it's that broken.


----------



## DoomDash

lilbow! foreign hope!


----------



## DoomDash

Also first major tournament finals foreigner vs foreigner since 2012.


----------



## Pandora51

Simple but very epic as always









WCS is pretty sweet aswell. Some exciting games are going on. Gogo Mana!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also first major tournament finals foreigner vs foreigner since 2012.


Damn it, there go 40 EUR...


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also first major tournament finals foreigner vs foreigner since 2012.


I like how foreigners basically couldn't keep up with the Koreans for extended periods of time so they used the fact that Korean pros tend to really, really botch the basics in order to win. No sarcasm intended, I enjoyed the reversal even though a lot of the games were anti climatic with fast wins (I'll take those any day of the week over 60+ minute turtle mech games).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> (I'll take those any day of the week over 60+ minute turtle mech games).


I won't, long games ftw!

Imagine if football was played until the first goal scored. 12 minutes in, match ends. Won't sell many tickets that way


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I won't, long games ftw!
> 
> Imagine if football was played until the first goal scored. 12 minutes in, match ends. Won't sell many tickets that way


Football isn't sc2 though. Mech games are the exception. Normally games last 15-30 minutes. 30 being the longer end of things.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Football isn't sc2 though. Mech games are the exception. Normally games last 15-30 minutes. 30 being the longer end of things.


I know, that's why I like the long games so much









Short games are a battle of micro. Everyone on the pro level has stellar micro. So there's actually nothing to see there. You know beforehand what's going to happen, you just don't know who will be the one that does it. Either one of them will do "unbelievable blink stalker" (which is rather believable, since we've seen it a million times), or the other will have "phenomenal splits" (again, million times), or "amazing baneling or muta control", and that person will win. 10 minutes into the game (Remember, SC minutes are not real minutes).

Whereas long games are a battle of wit and nerve. You see how players handle stress and stalemate situations. You get invested in the game.

Football may not be SC, but interesting is interesting, and quick finishes have always been disappointing. No sexual reference intended.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I know, that's why I like the long games so much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Short games are a battle of micro. Everyone on the pro level has stellar micro. So there's actually nothing to see there. You know beforehand what's going to happen, you just don't know who will be the one that does it. Either one of them will do "unbelievable blink stalker" (which is rather believable, since we've seen it a million times), or the other will have "phenomenal splits" (again, million times), or "amazing baneling or muta control", and that person will win. 10 minutes into the game (Remember, SC minutes are not real minutes).
> 
> Whereas long games are a battle of wit and nerve. You see how players handle stress and stalemate situations. You get invested in the game.
> 
> Football may not be SC, but interesting is interesting, and quick finishes have always been disappointing. No sexual reference intended.


Fair enough.

On a different topic I know of one change which would revolutionize sc2 and how it's played on every leauge without ever touching the ecnomy.

Units are height sensative, meaning they need a clear line of sight to attack. So that marine ball isn't going to work so well because they have to be spread out to properly attack. Stalkers won't be shooting the same target as a zealot if the zealo is directly infront of the stalker, same applies to Hydras and Roaches.

All of a sudden every army has to be properly split before battle or they lose effectiveness. It also puts heavy emphasis on defender's advantage (high ground lets you have line of sight on low ground) and makes air units more important as they always have a clear line of sight.

Only down side I can really think of is that it increases the skill cap of sc2 at the lowest end so the truly bad players at sc2 would start sucking @ sc2 fiercely if they didn't adapt. But it does break apart deathballs unless the deathball composition is very specific or air (and air is vulnerable to GtA attacks as a bunch of marines would have line of sight on an Oracle, just like the Oracle having clear line of sight on the marines.

It's probably too complex for sc2 but I think it would be fun to at least try out.


----------



## Wishmaker

That trailer!!!!!!


----------



## Qu1ckset

So if I preorder the expansion I get instant beta access !?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> So if I preorder the expansion I get instant beta access !?


Yep but order the digital copy from Blizzard to be safe, there have been issues with pre-orders from other venues (including other digital distributed copies like from Amazon) which resulted in those people not getting access to the beta or prologe missions until Blizzard manually added them to your account (which has a pretty awful trun around time, I had to raise a stink to even get them looking at a support issue).


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yep but order the digital copy from Blizzard to be safe, there have been issues with pre-orders from other venues (including other digital distributed copies like from Amazon) which resulted in those people not getting access to the beta or prologe missions until Blizzard manually added them to your account (which has a pretty awful trun around time, I had to raise a stink to even get them looking at a support issue).


I would preorder straight from blizzard anyways, will probably do so on Friday as I will be busy with the destiny expansion come Tuesday lol


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I would preorder straight from blizzard anyways, will probably do so on Friday as I will be busy with the destiny expansion come Tuesday lol


Have fun then







otV is definitely fun...unless you really are set on playing Terran. Then you're in for a consant uphill battle until Blizzard fixes things with patches. But that's why it's beta, right?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Units are height sensative, meaning they need a clear line of sight to attack. So that marine ball isn't going to work so well because they have to be spread out to properly attack. Stalkers won't be shooting the same target as a zealot if the zealo is directly infront of the stalker, same applies to Hydras and Roaches.
> 
> All of a sudden every army has to be properly split before battle or they lose effectiveness. It also puts heavy emphasis on defender's advantage (high ground lets you have line of sight on low ground) and makes air units more important as they always have a clear line of sight.
> 
> Only down side I can really think of is that it increases the skill cap of sc2 at the lowest end so the truly bad players at sc2 would start sucking @ sc2 fiercely if they didn't adapt. But it does break apart deathballs unless the deathball composition is very specific or air (and air is vulnerable to GtA attacks as a bunch of marines would have line of sight on an Oracle, just like the Oracle having clear line of sight on the marines.
> 
> It's probably too complex for sc2 but I think it would be fun to at least try out.


I can get behind that, with a small correction - the zealot is much smaller than the stalker. Stalker / Immortal mix could be a better example.

Also, it may raise the skill cap, but it also may force Toss to go Zealot - Stalker - Colossus every game, just so he doesn't have to split.

EDIT: There could even be a Tactical Training upgrade for marines that allow them to fire in formation without splitting


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I can get behind that, with a small correction - the zealot is much smaller than the stalker. Stalker / Immortal mix could be a better example.
> 
> Also, it may raise the skill cap, but it also may force Toss to go Zealot - Stalker - Colossus every game, just so he doesn't have to split.
> 
> EDIT: There could even be a Tactical Training upgrade for marines that allow them to fire in formation without splitting


Marines are the last unit that should get an upgrade like that haha, they have the highest dps in the game (bar spells). The idea is to break up balls of units, not give them to a specific race.









Deathballs would exist to a lesser extend, noobs trying to use them would just get owned because they're not spreading out their, in this example, Stalkers so they lose a ton of dps vs anything that isn't air.

Overall it would probably be more efficient to have smaller squads because the amount of time to set up your range could be too much time, bar positioning with blink but that means you lose the offensive blink under threatening air units. The last thing you want is to take a big battle and have the bulk of your units not shooting the enemy.

Same concept applies to every race with one unit composition or another.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Marines are the last unit that should get an upgrade like that haha, they have the highest dps in the game (bar spells). The idea is to break up balls of units, not give them to a specific race.


If it's an expensive upgrade, it could work. Also, terran units are mostly the same height, every advanced unit will constantly be blocked by marines, unless they know how to duck and dodge friendly fire









Perhaps if you have a ball of marines up front as a distraction, and would like to utilize your APM in dropping 4 zerg bases at the same time, such upgrade could prove useful.

You know what I wanna see? Marines firing from medivacs, StarWars style


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> If it's an expensive upgrade, it could work. Also, terran units are mostly the same height, every advanced unit will constantly be blocked by marines, unless they know how to duck and dodge friendly fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps if you have a ball of marines up front as a distraction, and would like to utilize your APM in dropping 4 zerg bases at the same time, such upgrade could prove useful.
> 
> You know what I wanna see? Marines firing from medivacs, StarWars style


Why stop there? Sieged tanks should be able to fire from medivacs too! xD

You'd see mech units mixed with bio. Pure bio would be a pain to play, possible but you'd have to be gosu to pull it off.

If you said marauders I might be okay with that idea but marines deal far too much damage to ignore a mechanic like the one I suggested. It would be giving terran an unreasonable buff (compared to the other races)to drops as you wouldn't need to stim split and snipe. You'd just stim and snipe.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Have fun then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> otV is definitely fun...unless you really are set on playing Terran. Then you're in for a consant uphill battle until Blizzard fixes things with patches. But that's why it's beta, right?


I thought Terran was going to be cheap in this expansion with that new mid to long range missle truck that can micro really good, did that get nerfed ? And also can't that pick up tanks in siege mode still?

I'm a Protoss player myself , how are they with the expo?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I thought Terran was going to be cheap in this expansion with that new mid to long range missle truck that can micro really good, did that get nerfed ? And also can't that pick up tanks in siege mode still?
> 
> I'm a Protoss player myself , how are they with the expo?


Protoss is pretty solid right now. Photon Overcharge now lasts 30 seconds, costs 25 energy and is cast on pylons. So you're pretty much safe from any early harassment/drops at one of your bases. Good players will just go to your other base and wreck that though so it's not a "I win button" and it comes too late to be used as any sort of cheese (cannon rushing literally is faster).

The Adept just shreds light armor units and the Disruptor is like a messed up Reaver. Chrono Boost also only applies to a single structure now (it's more like a periodic buff to that building's production times) but you get as chrono boosts equal to the number of nexuses you control.

Warp Prisms are now godly, you can pick up units at range and warp in times are super fast for any pylon with a warp gate attached to it or from a Warp Prism power field.

Carriers are now pretty good, you can perma launch your interceptors to attack a location+build more immediately.

The Cyclone has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. It can still do awesome things but it requires a lot of control to make it work decently. It's a apm heavy unit that needs baby sitting. Liberators (think AoE Viking meets Siege Tank) are pretty good but the economy changes hurt terran a lot. Some of their openers aren't even remotely viable and pure bio play is dead. To make it work you will need to massively outplay your opponent.

Tanks can be picked up in siege mode but they don't instantly fire when dropped anymore.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Protoss is pretty solid right now. Photon Overcharge now lasts 30 seconds, costs 25 energy and is cast on pylons. So you're pretty much safe from any early harassment/drops at one of your bases. Good players will just go to your other base and wreck that though so it's not a "I win button" and it comes too late to be used as any sort of cheese (cannon rushing literally is faster).
> 
> The Adept just shreds light armor units and the Disruptor is like a messed up Reaver. Chrono Boost also only applies to a single structure now (it's more like a periodic buff to that building's production times) but you get as chrono boosts equal to the number of nexuses you control.
> 
> Warp Prisms are now godly, you can pick up units at range and warp in times are super fast for any pylon with a warp gate attached to it or from a Warp Prism power field.
> 
> Carriers are now pretty good, you can perma launch your interceptors to attack a location+build more immediately.
> 
> The Cyclone has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. It can still do awesome things but it requires a lot of control to make it work decently. It's a apm heavy unit that needs baby sitting. Liberators (think AoE Viking meets Siege Tank) are pretty good but the economy changes hurt terran a lot. Some of their openers aren't even remotely viable and pure bio play is dead. To make it work you will need to massively outplay your opponent.
> 
> Tanks can be picked up in siege mode but they don't instantly fire when dropped anymore.


Seems I'm really out of touch with what's new in the expansion , I will check out some YouTube videos when I get home from work and check it all out, from what you said Protoss sounds pretty solid.

How's Zerg so far ?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Seems I'm really out of touch with what's new in the expansion , I will check out some YouTube videos when I get home from work and check it all out, from what you said Protoss sounds pretty solid.
> 
> How's Zerg so far ?


Zerg is crazy good. Vipers have an ability that just destroys air armies. Ultralisks get 10 armor when fully upgraded. They're pretty tough. Roaches can morph into Ravagers which are fatter, slower attacking Roaches that can launch a skill shot that deals damage after a short delay in a small area against air, building and ground. It also has 13 range.

Zerg got buffed hard by the new economy, a half decent zerg is going to have creep near your base by 7 minutes and will have gigantic ling swarms running around the map as they expand and take every base you let them take. If you thought fighting 1 remax was hard try fighting 3 or 4. Because that's what zerg do now. They throw waves of units they don't care about into you and remax on your direct counter without ever drying up their bank unless they mass ultras or whatever. They're exceptionally hard to fight in LotV for Protoss. Terrans are almost hopeless in the matchup. Only saving grace is getting fast Liberators and parking them behind their mineral line in their version of siege mode, banshees are also a pretty big threat now that they're unbelievably fast with a fusion core upgrade.

Essentially vs zerg you now have to harass them asap or you just die to overwhelming numbers. Just think of zerg in the beta as being on steroids. They do the same stuff but faster and better.


----------



## DoomDash

Protoss is good but I find their ground units pretty fair right now, even adepts. Protoss air is very trouble some for me however.

Zerg is probably the most powerful race, but not everyone has figured it out yet. Ravagers @ range 13 are really stupid imo, Vipers parasitic bomb needs a major nerf... then I'd say they are fine.

Terran is really strong too, mostly due to the liberator and very little to do with the cyclone. The liberator is probably one of the best Terran units in the game, if not the best. I will probably be nerfed at some point, but if its too hard I fear Terran won't be as legit unless they buff something else in return. Cyclones are just awful in 95% of situations IMO. Pretty useless unit.

Man, Ravagers soooooo broken now, at least ZvT. Anyone playing the beta as other races feeling it too?


----------



## tristanbear

So I was looking to get this game. Any tips I should know going in? I don't think I ever played a game like this in my life.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tristanbear*
> 
> So I was looking to get this game. Any tips I should know going in? I don't think I ever played a game like this in my life.


Play through the campaign and the challenges before jumping into multiplayer.


----------



## tristanbear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Play through the campaign and the challenges before jumping into multiplayer.


Got it! I'll make sure I do that!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tristanbear*
> 
> So I was looking to get this game. Any tips I should know going in? I don't think I ever played a game like this in my life.


Yeah challenges specifically are pretty cool. Also there is a load of information here:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9882048889


----------



## gunslinger0077

I think I'm fixing to start playing again! Doomdash have you been playing much. Would some folks to play with, do they still have clans?


----------



## Pandora51

If you guys want to play some teamgames I would like to join ya.

Everyone here is playing on NA, right?
Thankfully its not longer such an issue to play on NA as european


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> If you guys want to play some teamgames I would like to join ya.
> 
> Everyone here is playing on NA, right?
> Thankfully its not longer such an issue to play on NA as european


I play on EU


----------



## Cybertox

Whenever I play SC2, I play on EU as well.


----------



## gunslinger0077

I am US. Not very good was able to get gold 1v1 went hots came out. But I havent played in forever!!


----------



## DIYDeath

Well I might be down for some games on NA. I'll play team games, all I ask is if you're in a significantly lower leauge than me is that we do unranked games. (Don't ask for me to go onto EU just like there's a skill gap from NA to KR, there's a skill gap from EU to NA).

My user name is BabelFish #856, add me and we'll play some games. If I'm feeling energetic and I'm in the right mood I might even coach a little if people need it.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunslinger0077*
> 
> I think I'm fixing to start playing again! Doomdash have you been playing much. Would some folks to play with, do they still have clans?


660+ games of Legacy of the Void, so yeah.









I'm in the overclock.net clan but it's dead as frick.


----------



## Cybertox

LOTV better have a 64 bit client.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV better have a 64 bit client.


Keep dreaming, buddy


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Keep dreaming, buddy


----------



## Anti!!

I am not a Protoss fan, but that trailer... pretty cool.

For The Swarm!

though.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I am not a Protoss fan, but that trailer... pretty cool.
> 
> For The Swarm!
> 
> though.


For the Alliance! Wait...

For Sanctuary! No, that's not it...

For Nova's butt!


----------



## DoomDash

2 months to balance LotV, not going to happen, it's a mess.


----------



## FrankoNL

Yeah, that is going to be an issue. Wish they would just remove the maco mechanics completely to be honest. And i am not the only one. Lot's of high level streamers seem to agree.

But 2 month's to fix everything .... that's a tall order. They have no clue what they want to do with the macro mechanics, skytoss is broken, sky zerg is useless and adepts are too strong early game. Just to name a few points.

Oh... and get more servers. The ping from EU is horrendous


----------



## iARDAs

Saw that games are on sale. I already had the original game and wanted to grab the Heart of Swarm DLC... I am in EU region and I did the stupidity of buying it from the US store.

I got hold of blizzard and they said they cancaled my orded and will give me the money back. However it turns out I actually bought that DLC when it came out like 2 years ago







Totally forgot about it.

Anyway, playing the game on 4K. Textures look poor but it is alright. Even in extreme settings I can get steady 60fps, however between missions when I am on the space craft or the bar kind of an area in the beginning I barely get 30 fps. Is this a common issue?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Saw that games are on sale. I already had the original game and wanted to grab the Heart of Swarm DLC... I am in EU region and I did the stupidity of buying it from the US store.
> 
> I got hold of blizzard and they said they cancaled my orded and will give me the money back. However it turns out I actually bought that DLC when it came out like 2 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally forgot about it.
> 
> Anyway, playing the game on 4K. Textures look poor but it is alright. Even in extreme settings I can get steady 60fps, however between missions when I am on the space craft or the bar kind of an area in the beginning I barely get 30 fps. Is this a common issue?


First off, it's a (standalone?) expansion, not a DLC









Second, textures are poor because every time a reasonable individual suggests a graphics update, there are 100 mad "pro" players who flood the thread with how StarCraft is not about graphics.

Third, yeah, I believe the scenes between missions are capped to 30fps. Not entirely sure though.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> First off, it's a (standalone?) expansion, not a DLC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, textures are poor because every time a reasonable individual suggests a graphics update, there are 100 mad "pro" players who flood the thread with how StarCraft is not about graphics.
> 
> Third, yeah, I believe the scenes between missions are capped to 30fps. Not entirely sure though.


Hmmm. I did not know they were standalones...









Well pro players can continue playing the game at PRO mode with med textures if they want. I want to take advantage of graphics. The game is amazing as it is but could do better in graphics for sure. Damn those pro players









I also have mouse lag in between missions. I believe it is terrible optimized.

Other than that game runs amazing at 4K with everything Extreme.

I am on the 4th mission on the first game, and it's been a very long time since I played a RTS game, so I got my ass handed to me on HARD difficulty. Man I used to be a good Starcraft player back in the day. My mind does not coop well anymore.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Well pro players can continue playing the game at PRO mode with med textures if they want


Right! Right!

I don't know how people still don't understand that!

Improving graphics does not mean you are suddenly and magically forced to play with higher graphics!

Damn, people are stupid lately...


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Hmmm. I did not know they were standalones...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well pro players can continue playing the game at PRO mode with med textures if they want. I want to take advantage of graphics. The game is amazing as it is but could do better in graphics for sure. Damn those pro players
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also have mouse lag in between missions. I believe it is terrible optimized.
> 
> Other than that game runs amazing at 4K with everything Extreme.
> 
> I am on the 4th mission on the first game, and it's been a very long time since I played a RTS game, so I got my ass handed to me on HARD difficulty. Man I used to be a good Starcraft player back in the day. My mind does not coop well anymore.


Every Blizzard game is terribly optimized. They are great games but optimized? .. No


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Every Blizzard game is terribly optimized. They are great games but optimized? .. No


I disagree. They have the occasional glitch that can cause FPS drops. But overall their engine is great.


----------



## FrankoNL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I disagree. They have the occasional glitch that can cause FPS drops. But overall their engine is great.


Really? Have you seen the CPU/GPU performance in WoW, diablo and Heroes of the storm? It's a joke.

I get 55 fps in busy parts in wow with 20 % CPU load en 35 % GPU load. It's a joke.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Really? Have you seen the CPU/GPU performance in WoW, diablo and Heroes of the storm? It's a joke.
> 
> I get 55 fps in busy parts in wow with 20 % CPU load en 35 % GPU load. It's a joke.


Let me react the same way the StarCraft crowd usually reacts









You don't like the engine? Well, then don't play.








See how cool that is?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Let me react the same way the StarCraft crowd usually reacts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't like the engine? Well, then don't play.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how cool that is?


Dont even mention that. Have you seen what happened in the cinematic thread? lol, dont even bother with those people.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yeah, that is going to be an issue. Wish they would just remove the maco mechanics completely to be honest. And i am not the only one. Lot's of high level streamers seem to agree.
> 
> But 2 month's to fix everything .... that's a tall order. They have no clue what they want to do with the macro mechanics, skytoss is broken, sky zerg is useless and adepts are too strong early game. Just to name a few points.
> 
> Oh... and get more servers. The ping from EU is horrendous


The macro changes are pretty split among pros. I think most prefer them intact though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Dont even mention that. Have you seen what happened in the cinematic thread? lol, dont even bother with those people.


Kettle meet pot, when you go on about how the engine is so ugly for months and months on end people tend to get tired of it and tell you to stop complaining or stop playing.

It's not that you don't have a point. It's that we're sick of hearing it.

Funny how real life works, isn't it?


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Yeah, that is going to be an issue. Wish they would just remove the maco mechanics completely to be honest. And i am not the only one. Lot's of high level streamers seem to agree.
> 
> But 2 month's to fix everything .... that's a tall order. They have no clue what they want to do with the macro mechanics, skytoss is broken, sky zerg is useless and adepts are too strong early game. Just to name a few points.
> 
> Oh... and get more servers. The ping from EU is horrendous


No please no.

I want atleast some macro mechanics and compared to sc1 macro sc2 is already soft.
Blizzard even tried auto building units once and I think if they ever release something like this I will quit playing sc2.
Some changes are always great but don't destroy the old starcraft feeling.


----------



## DoomDash

Random thoughts:


Cyclones are still pretty awful, but once and awhile they have a cool application. Early game they are pretty useful to deter small numbers of air units, like oracle/muta. I find that sprinkling in 1 or 2 in an army is useful for killing retreating units as well. Last they are solid in TvT at least.
May have heard me say it but Ravagers are such an insane mech counter right now I'm just getting slaughtered in TvZ. I'm not joking when I say slaughtered, it's not even close, and this has been my best MU since HotS game out. I only win now if the Zerg has no idea what to do in the MU.
Still beating Protoss most of my games. Ghost rush into mech still. I've also tried a reactor Cyclone timing attack which can punish FE protoss players sometimes. I must be one of the few terrans doing well vs Protoss.
Ghost snipe is cool but I wish it worked a little different, getting hit is extremely easy in most cases. I miss using them to deal with Broodlords, but now that's not really an option since broodlings or friendly fire will cancel your attack.
It's nice to have mules back with no auto-cast. Also having scans is nice.
No real reason to play the tournaments atm. Hope they have good rewards for them on launch.
Beat some more Grand Masters, GM on LotV so screwy.


----------



## Pandora51

Sounds reasonable.

Im not so sure about the tournaments. Has Blizz said anything about them?
Its a pretty good idea but what could be a good reward in the game and why should anyone play a tournament instead of ladder?

I wanted to play some LotV this weekend but decided to play the Sc1 + BW compaign again. Oh its alot of fun.
Broodwar can be quite hard. Possibly harder than Heart of the Swarm but I could mistaken this.

Hopefully LotV will be alot harder than Hots on brutal anyways. Some units were just way too overpowered in Hots. For example the winfestor.


----------



## DoomDash

They haven't mentioned rewards but I think they know they need them.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> First off, it's a (standalone?) expansion, not a DLC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, textures are poor because every time a reasonable individual suggests a graphics update, there are 100 mad "pro" players who flood the thread with how StarCraft is not about graphics.
> 
> Third, yeah, I believe the scenes between missions are capped to 30fps. Not entirely sure though.


WoL was a stand alone
HoTS was an expansion
LoTV is a stand alone









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> They haven't mentioned rewards but I think they know they need them.


1. Rewards would be nice, but crap they have no monthly income to use to support such a thing. Yea, they have game sales, but why would they cut into their bottom line to give gifts for playing a game if it is not a game with a monthly subscription.

2. I liked playing in the tournament. I liked it enough I don't feel like I needed a reward. However, my beef is waiting another 1 1/2 for a the next to start if you get eliminated early. Yea, I can play some more games while I wait, but the notification has failed before.

3. I also think that the participants in the tourney should be able to spectate the final bracket. I don't think cheating would come into play there because only the players who normally won't even know the other players are watching. You can't exactly ghost to a person you don't know. Map Hacks are more probable here.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> WoL was a stand alone
> HoTS was an expansion
> LoTV is a stand alone


I know it was, however it may become standalone too, if I remember correctly. Not that anybody cares at this point.


----------



## DIYDeath

Maybe someone can answer this for me: why the hell does the Liberator exist?

All it's roles are filled by other units and Terran didn't really have issues with anti air.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Maybe someone can answer this for me: why the hell does the Liberator exist?
> 
> All it's roles are filled by other units and Terran didn't really have issues with anti air.


Easy, because the siege tank is weak, and terrans AA sucked if you didn't go bio. Basically the medivac and liberator offset the weak tank.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Easy, because the siege tank is weak, and terrans AA sucked if you didn't go bio. Basically the medivac and liberator offset the weak tank.


Think about that for a sec though, Terran have Thors, Widow Mines, Marines, Vikings and Ravens to deal with air already - and they're all somewhere between good to freaking amazing at dealing with air. Why do they need more anti air and splash damage anti air at that which is covered by 2 other units.

Tank drops are undeniably strong, so strong that Zerg must get mutalisks to deal with them but Liberators shut down muta play so hard that mutas are flat out not viable anymore.

What does zerg have that counters tank drops within their appropriate timing? Mutas. That's it. Everything else (Vipers) is hive tech which comes way too late to even attempt doing things like abducting a medivac with a siege tank loaded into it.

The only option is to get a surround on the Liberators and pray you kill them before they kill you - but that's not even remotely cost efficient.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Think about that for a sec though, Terran have Thors, Widow Mines, Marines, Vikings and Ravens to deal with air already - and they're all somewhere between good to freaking amazing at dealing with air. Why do they need more anti air and splash damage anti air at that which is covered by 2 other units.
> 
> Tank drops are undeniably strong, so strong that Zerg must get mutalisks to deal with them but Liberators shut down muta play so hard that mutas are flat out not viable anymore.
> 
> What does zerg have that counters tank drops within their appropriate timing? Mutas. That's it. Everything else (Vipers) is hive tech which comes way too late to even attempt doing things like abducting a medivac with a siege tank loaded into it.
> 
> The only option is to get a surround on the Liberators and pray you kill them before they kill you - but that's not even remotely cost efficient.


I'll just say that after 700 lotv matches liberators and tank drops aren't really an issue for Zerg, especially now that the liberators come out so late with the anti-ground attack.

Tank drops are dealt with by following the medivac with lings/roaches, and having your queens hit them. Just open up 2 queens per hatch and you should be able to deal with them just fine. Tanks don't one shot much so they are more of a pester than effective as I mentioned before. Typically when I see them done by pros, or done by myself they get only around 5 kills total, certainly not any more game ending than an oracle/banshee/muta or whatever else.

Liberators don't shut down muta play as much as people think they do, although I will admit they are great, magic box still allows muta's to put up a good fight. I've actually lost equal number of liberators to equal number of muta's before plenty of times. Besides, when muta's are out that means you have the ability to make corruptors, which destroy liberators until they reach critical mass. When someone is going for mass liberators vipers obviously counter them pretty hard, I'd say it's Zerg favored in the end, even with perfect splits from Terran. It's just more back and fourth now in the air, with Zerg end game being better.

Also all those Anti-air things you mention are not that great imo. Vikings are one trick pony's and really only good vs like one unit per race. Mines are good but can be countered pretty fine with detection, I'd say they are a bit unreliable. Raven's are awful now, they can be good but seeker missiles are not super hard to dodge or split against compared to things like PB. Thor's are good but only vs light units, I don't know why they removed the alternate attack for no reason. We have cyclones now but they are still pretty weak over all, outside a few situations where they are great like shutting down early oracles as i mentioned above.

Marines are probably the best AA Terran has, but obviously they get shredded to AoE spells or damage so it's not like they are perfect.

Anyway I've been watching a lot of Vibe, he still plays Zerg air style vs Terran all the time and even though I'd say nova and top are better than him he wins often and at the very least stays competitive.

But man it's going to be like the marauder all over again if they launch the game with the liberator like this, it is a strong unit, especially in the lower leagues where people won't understand how to deal with it. Will be interesting to see what happens to it.

But also, if you dont' want the head ache of liberators or mech just go roach ravager and you get nice easy wins anyway.

Tank drops are by far the most effective in TvT in my experience, unless the map has a stupid spot like that one map that I can't remember its name.... then it's good vs Z.

I remember back in the day I used to think the queen range buff was the end of the world, but after getting used to it I think it's pretty fair, I think liberators just need time.

TLR watch vibe! I really enjoy his style in LotV out of all the streamers. Stephano is getting better at it too.
http://www.twitch.tv/vibelol


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'll just say that after 700 lotv matches liberators and tank drops aren't really an issue for Zerg, especially now that the liberators come out so late with the anti-ground attack.


Zerg don't have a counter to tank drops without mutas. Care to explain how zerg counter tank drops in the early mid game, when the timing hits? AtG Liberator attack is a different issue and is easily balanced if it ever gets out of hand again. The issue very specifically is Liberators shutting down muta play which is the only pre-ive tech out to tank harass that doesn't involve the terran getting outplayed.
Quote:


> Tank drops are dealt with by following the medivac with lings/roaches, and having your queens hit them. Just open up 2 queens per hatch and you should be able to deal with them just fine. Tanks don't one shot much so they are more of a pester than effective as I mentioned before. Typically when I see them done by pros, or done by myself they get only around 5 kills total, certainly not any more game ending than an oracle/banshee/muta or whatever else.


Are you focusing fire with the tank to pick off drones and other low hp units? Seems kind of silly to start blasting away at high health units with a single tank. Like targeting Hydralisks with your Immortals while a Ultralisk is killing your army silly. Lost mining time is also detrimental, there's more to the game than X units died. It's about delaying timings, tech and flustering your opponent just as much as it is about killing stuff.

Queens may as well be stationary off creep they're so slow, medivacs have boost. So while you can lose a medivac to a queen or two if you're paying attention that shouldn't happen for a long time, like after multiple hot drops/pick ups.
Quote:


> Liberators don't shut down muta play as much as people think they do, although I will admit they are great, magic box still allows muta's to put up a good fight. I've actually lost equal number of liberators to equal number of muta's before plenty of times. Besides, when muta's are out that means you have the ability to make corruptors, which destroy liberators until they reach critical mass. When someone is going for mass liberators vipers obviously counter them pretty hard, I'd say it's Zerg favored in the end, even with perfect splits from Terran. It's just more back and fourth now in the air, with Zerg end game being better.


...you do realize that 4 liberators can 1 shot 20 mutas, right? Only way to fight Liberators with mutas is to pre split and surround which at best is going to be break even on cost. And that's being overly optimistic because one volley will kill one of your split muta groups immediately.
Quote:


> Also all those Anti-air things you mention are not that great imo. Vikings are one trick pony's and really only good vs like one unit per race. Mines are good but can be countered pretty fine with detection, I'd say they are a bit unreliable. Raven's are awful now, they can be good but seeker missiles are not super hard to dodge or split against compared to things like PB. Thor's are good but only vs light units, I don't know why they removed the alternate attack for no reason. We have cyclones now but they are still pretty weak over all, outside a few situations where they are great like shutting down early oracles as i mentioned above.
> 
> Marines are probably the best AA Terran has, but obviously they get shredded to AoE spells or damage so it's not like they are perfect.


Well you're entitled to your opinion but if we're going off of pro games, you're just wrong. There's a reason why mutas aren't overly effective vs Terran bar keeping them paranoid about holes in their defense and distracting.It's because marines shred mutas, it's becasue mines zone out mutas (mines have the same range as mutas so you either have to kill the mine in 1 volley or it will go off), Thors are great vs mutas with any sort of backup. Vikings are more supplimental, you combine them with Thors or Marines. Ravens still have PDD and that will block a mutas attack. Nerfed duration or not, stopping a muta volley mitigates a ton of damage and allows you to reposition to properly counter.
Quote:


> Anyway I've been watching a lot of Vibe, he still plays Zerg air style vs Terran all the time and even though I'd say nova and top are better than him he wins often and at the very least stays competitive.
> 
> But man it's going to be like the marauder all over again if they launch the game with the liberator like this, it is a strong unit, especially in the lower leagues where people won't understand how to deal with it. Will be interesting to see what happens to it.
> 
> But also, if you dont' want the head ache of liberators or mech just go roach ravager and you get nice easy wins anyway.
> 
> Tank drops are by far the most effective in TvT in my experience, unless the map has a stupid spot like that one map that I can't remember its name.... then it's good vs Z.
> 
> I remember back in the day I used to think the queen range buff was the end of the world, but after getting used to it I think it's pretty fair, I think liberators just need time.
> 
> TLR watch vibe! I really enjoy his style in LotV out of all the streamers. Stephano is getting better at it too.
> http://www.twitch.tv/vibelol


I watch vibe already, I definitely don't agree with you at all here. Liberators hard counter the counter to tank drops, which when used properly are devastating as we have seen in the hands of pros (I don't discuss balance pertaining to lower leagues, it's irrelavent).

Vipers come out too late to matter in relation to tank drops which is why I'm not addressing that point, this is about Liberators and their timing window in relation to tank drop timing windows.


----------



## DoomDash

Tank drops are really easy to deal with man, as I said, make a couple extra queens and pick off the medivac. Your base should have creep all around it by that time, that's a non-issue. Right click the medivac with your Zerglings and they will follow right under it preventing it from being safely dropped. Yes you can get a few shots off when boost is on but killing a couple lings here and there isn't a big deal. I literally never see effective tank drops in any stream unless its a base trade scenario. Any Zergs I play shut them down easily, in fact I've never even heard a complaint about them. I even have done a 2 medivac 2 tank variant and it's still not that hard to stop, queens are the key way before muta. And of course I focus fire lol. Where are you seeing people struggle against this?

I am subscribed to:
Polt
Flash
Morrow
qxc
Vibe
Stephano
incontrol
nony
Nova
top
mc
tlo
forgg
rotterdam
avilo

Not a single one of them besides ONE nova game did I ever see tanks do game ending damage, and that game was a base race. I watch probably 2 hours of starcraft a day at least, so I'm just not sure we are seeing the same problems.

Also yeah Liberators counter muta's in engagements but they don't have to engage, and as I said you mix corruptors in and you're fine. If you go muta basically just control the game until they get the liberators required to deal with your muta, as well as the turrets needed, and you transition into hive. That's the advantage, as well as the risk to opening muta, but their end game is better than terrans so it's a fair risk.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Tank drops are really easy to deal with man, as I said, make a couple extra queens and pick off the medivac. Your base should have creep all around it by that time, that's a non-issue. Right click the medivac with your Zerglings and they will follow right under it preventing it from being safely dropped. Yes you can get a few shots off when boost is on but killing a couple lings here and there isn't a big deal. I literally never see effective tank drops in any stream unless its a base trade scenario. Any Zergs I play shut them down easily, in fact I've never even heard a complaint about them. I even have done a 2 medivac 2 tank variant and it's still not that hard to stop, queens are the key way before muta. And of course I focus fire lol. Where are you seeing people struggle against this?
> 
> I am subscribed to:
> Polt
> Flash
> Morrow
> qxc
> Vibe
> Stephano
> incontrol
> nony
> Nova
> top
> mc
> tlo
> forgg
> rotterdam
> avilo
> 
> Not a single one of them besides ONE nova game did I ever see tanks do game ending damage, and that game was a base race. I watch probably 2 hours of starcraft a day at least, so I'm just not sure we are seeing the same problems.
> 
> Also yeah Liberators counter muta's in engagements but they don't have to engage, and as I said you mix corruptors in and you're fine. If you go muta basically just control the game until they get the liberators required to deal with your muta, as well as the turrets needed, and you transition into hive. That's the advantage, as well as the risk to opening muta, but their end game is better than terrans so it's a fair risk.


If you're dropping tanks on creep without an escape route like emply space you're doing it wrong. I mean, yeah, that's asking for queens to get your medivac but you shouldn't be doing that. Positioining is integral to stank drops. If you screw up the positioning you get suff like lings on the low ground and queens on the high ground to stop the harass.

That's being outplayed.

I don't know what to say to the rest of that, if you haven't seen anyone complain about it it's probably because Terrans keep screwing up the strategy. Redbull was a perfect example of it done right and it was devastating.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If you're dropping tanks on creep without an escape route like emply space you're doing it wrong. I mean, yeah, that's asking for queens to get your medivac but you shouldn't be doing that. Positioining is integral to stank drops. If you screw up the positioning you get suff like lings on the low ground and queens on the high ground to stop the harass.
> 
> That's being outplayed.
> 
> I don't know what to say to the rest of that, if you haven't seen anyone complain about it it's probably because Terrans keep screwing up the strategy. Redbull was a perfect example of it done right and it was devastating.


I don't count anything in archon mode towards balance personally. Like marine splitting could be OP in that but that doesn't mean it is in the normal mode







. I think Terran will always be the best race in archon mode.

And yeah I think most good Zergs have the creep to be fine vs this. As I said I really haven't seen any problems with it yet, same with the liberator outside the old liberator rushes which no longer exist.


----------



## ronnin426850

Does Stephano still play?
Does he plan on getting back to competitive?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Does Stephano still play?
> Does he plan on getting back to competitive?


He does, and I don't really know. He's still fun to watch.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He does, and I don't really know. He's still fun to watch.


I never liked him, but the game is too Korean without him, pardon the mild racism


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I never liked him, but the game is too Korean without him, pardon the mild racism


French players have been stomping Koreans lately. I think its because Korean players in general are inflexible, they know what they know and anything that goes outside the box confounds them.

Just look @ sOs, a non-standard Korean player who just took out some of the best Koreans in the game for JinAir and he did it easily with non-standard builds.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*


Vibe was complaining about medivac siege tanks yesterday, so I guess I can say I'm a bit wrong to think he didn't feel it was a problem. He even brought up that muta's are the counter and if you go roach hydra you're screwed. I didn't really SEE why he felt that way, but at least I heard it from him or someone now. He was struggling very much against meditank liberator into bio, but I think in the games I watched it was more of him struggling with bio than the other stuff.

Bio liberator seems really strong.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Vibe was complaining about medivac siege tanks yesterday, so I guess I can say I'm a bit wrong to think he didn't feel it was a problem. He even brought up that muta's are the counter and if you go roach hydra you're screwed. I didn't really SEE why he felt that way, but at least I heard it from him or someone now. He was struggling very much against meditank liberator into bio, but I think in the games I watched it was more of him struggling with bio than the other stuff.
> 
> Bio liberator seems really strong.


It really is, it's just that Liberators add another layer of anti air. I mean it a vaccuum liberators aren't THAT broken but when you combine them with other units it gets exponentially silly.

Every race has weaknesses, the Liberator is trying to remove the weakness of their anti air lacking mobility but being incredibly strong in direct battles. I mean Thors/Ravens exist for a reason imo.

Anyhow Ive started streaming a bit.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/diydeath/

People can watch me there, I don't do twitch because I like not having a muted channel due to music+I don't care about making money. I'm no pro, I'm a filthy casual who does weird non-meta builds that work, I even actively try to not get Colossus or Storms unless I'm forced into it because of mass hydra. I don't even use FF that often, protoss don't need it to fned off stuff like early bio pushes.


----------



## DIYDeath

A PvT replay. 3 base vs 3 base. No Colossus/FF/Oracles/MSC. Pure Gateway vs MMM+V+Ravens. 20 mins game, 6 minute replay (faster x2 for the replay).

Link is *SAFE FOR WORK* but there's music so make sure to *LOWER YOUR VOLUME* if that's an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAp20bv4Jg&feature=youtu.be


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> A PvT replay. 3 base vs 3 base. No Colossus/FF/Oracles/MSC. Pure Gateway vs MMM+V+Ravens. 20 mins game, 6 minute replay (faster x2 for the replay).
> 
> Link is *SAFE FOR WORK* but there's music so make sure to *LOWER YOUR VOLUME* if that's an issue.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAp20bv4Jg&feature=youtu.be


Damn it, who put StarCraft sounds over that awesome song?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Damn it, who put StarCraft sounds over that awesome song?


Haha. xD Yeah I'm a big fan of Draconian. Bigger fan of PvT.







And that's my 2nd best MU. PvP for me is better.


----------



## ronnin426850

Yeah, someone said it.

http://www.9gag.com/gag/ajnZPy1


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yeah, someone said it.
> 
> http://www.9gag.com/gag/ajnZPy1


Actual gameplay graphics are bad and outdated, they have to make it up with sexy cinematics. Not that I am mad about it...


----------



## DoomDash

New Community Feedback Update! This one is like a dream come true to me:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19072117900?page=1


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Hey again everyone. We're back with a brief update from David Kim on a few of the topics that we saw discussed this week, and also to give you a few details on our big upcoming patch!
> 
> 3.0 Update to HotS
> First, we want to talk about the next major patch coming into HotS. It's the major preparation patch that is happening for Legacy of the Void. The patch won't have any balance changes in it, but we are separately trying to decide if the current Balance update test map is needed before Blizzcon. For now, it's looking like the game is in a good enough state where the better player wins matches rather than players winning due to racial strength, but we'll keep a close watch on it to make sure we make the right call.
> 
> We are currently working on a list of detailed improvements that will be included with this last major patch for Heart of the Swarm, but we wanted to update you guys on one of the changes now - we will be removing the FFA matchmaking queue from this patch onwards. The reason is quite simple: not enough players have been interested in playing this mode, and so the matchmaking in the FFA queue isn't working properly. Due to the low participation, it's pretty much just random match making like custom games. We don't feel the need to have a matchmaker for a format that doesn't provide much of an improvement in terms of quality of experience compared to custom games. The few players who do play FFA on a regular basis should be able to have a similar quality experience through custom games.
> 
> Macro Mechanics
> Thank you for your participation and feedback yet again throughout this week. Making a decision in this area is probably the most difficult choice we've ever faced during Starcraft II's development. Both the community and our development team members have had an evenly split opinion on the topic, and no matter which way we go, there will be an equal number of players that are for and against the decision. Because of this, we believe it's important to do what's best for the game in this situation, rather than going for a change that everyone wants, because clearly, there's not even close to a consensus on this topic.
> 
> With that said, let's talk about where we're at currently in the beta. We like the fact that the current version for Protoss and Zerg keeps the game as difficult as possible for the highest level players out there, while it reduces the clicks and attention needed for everyone else. The Terran's MULE was clearly the easiest to execute of the three races, and we are noticing there's really not a huge difference in terms of difficulty of execution whether the MULE is automated or not across most skill levels. However, we definitely don't want to lose the interesting strategic choices throughout the Terran game of having to decide between more minerals vs. scouting advantage. We'd like to also to let you know that we will continue to explore potential solutions for late game mass MULE dropping.
> 
> Of what we've tried so far, we believe the current version is the best version for Starcraft II, and we'd like to make the decision between this and potentially reverting the changes to HotS. Our team is leaning towards keeping this version right now, but we would love to hear your feedback before making the final decision.
> 
> Regarding Protoss and Zerg, the main worry for Protoss is whether the current change is a side-grade and if the old version plays better or not. The main worry for Zerg right now is if the current version makes the game easier at the highest skill level, even though it currently looks like this is most likely a non-issue. Please focus your feedback around these two main points this week, so that we can together make the right decision for the game.
> 
> Adept
> We definitely heard your feedback and we agree that Adepts warping-in during the early game using Warp Prisms against Terran in the current state is probably too much. However, there has been mixed feedback in terms of whether Adepts are the issue, Warp Prisms are the issue, or both.
> 
> With what we know so far, Adepts are most likely the issue. The reason is that if Warp Prisms were OP, they would be OP no matter what unit is warped-in. However, we only see a huge amount of strength with Adept warp-ins. We discussed this topic with many higher level players in the beta this week, and there looks to be a consensus in this thought process. We also don't want to be too quick to judge on new strategy/unit nerfs like this one, because it is often the case that what's new can initially look too powerful. We will first try out a nerf with the Adept, and reevaluate the Warp Prism after trying out the Adept changes.
> 
> Therefore, we'd like to do an early game change to the Adept first, and then evaluate the strategy after that. We're currently thinking of either lowering the health of the Adept (if it's just a numbers issue), or changing the Adept's flag to armored (if it turns out to be the case that Terran not having a counter to the Adept at that stage of the game is an issue). We're also continuing to test different stat upgrades for the Adept to replace the current upgrade, so we'll keep you updated on the progress of this going forward as well. We'd like to aim for the next balance update to include this change.
> 
> Corruptor
> We've decided to not go forward with the change which allowed the Corruptor's ability to be used against units instead of structures.
> 
> The main difficulty for this unit was how we wanted an ability that's not powerful for cost, but feels powerful in very specific situations only due to how good the unit is against various air threats. What's currently in the beta looks to be the best recycle for the Corruptor, and it clearly provides awesome, cool moments that make the Corruptor look extremely powerful. At the same time, we don't see players building Corruptors when no counter units are in play, meaning the balance of the ability is most likely in a good spot as well.
> 
> We've explored many abilities for this slot, and nothing seems to be nearly as good as the current one in the beta right now.
> 
> Ravager Upgrade
> The new Ravager upgrade, on the other hand, is something that's not working out well during beta testing. Like many of you have pointed out, this upgrade makes it quite difficult for Terran players to go into mech play due to Ravagers now countering large numbers of mech units. We believe the Ravager without the range upgrade is better for the game because it's much cooler for Zerg players to have to pick and choose the right locations to attack into with Ravagers, and then having to tech switch into a different approach if the Siege Tank/Liberator counts get too high. As things currently are however, Ravagers simply counter Mech play no matter the sizes of the armies.
> 
> We also don't like the changed relationship against Lurker lines. Lurkers seem very difficult to use now due to how much the Ravager ability out ranges the Lurker. It was much better when their ranges were equal. We would like to remove this upgrade in the next balance update.
> 
> Ghost Snipe Buff
> We agree with you guys in that this ability needs to be tuned up in cost-effectiveness, and we'll be looking into it.
> 
> Raven Movement Speed Buff
> We also agree with the suggestion to increase Raven movement speed, especially in TvZ. The increased rate at which creep spreads and recedes both look to be very fun changes to the game. One issue for Terran, however, is that in the later stages of the game it's too difficult to get the interaction we're looking for of creep constantly going away and being re-spread. A Raven movement speed buff sounds like it could do the trick in terms of getting this cool factor back into the game.
> 
> Thanks for all your input and suggestions so far - and be sure to let us know what you think of the questions and topics we posed here. We're looking forward to reading your thoughts, and we hope you enjoy the additions to come with patch 3.0!






Ravager range upgrade being removed, snipe being looked at, raven buff, macro mechanics still in tact for terran!!! I don't even care about the adepts.


----------



## DIYDeath

New changes sound pretty solid. Mass mules late game is still a significant issue though.

I don't get why there isn't just a 2/3rd cooldown and a casting range on mules to prevent dropping 14 mules at once.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> New changes sound pretty solid. Mass mules late game is still a significant issue though.
> 
> I don't get why there isn't just a 2/3rd cooldown and a casting range on mules to prevent dropping 14 mules at once.


I never really understood the issue, since Terran late game has always been considered the worst. Casting range would be terrible, as it was in the auto-mule days. Maybe more energy for the further away it is would be fine.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I never really understood the issue, since Terran late game has always been considered the worst. Casting range would be terrible, as it was in the auto-mule days. Maybe more energy for the further away it is would be fine.


Makes it too hard to plan around in combat, has to be a flat energy cost.

Terran has a fantastic early, mid game and late. It's their transition from what's viable in those stages (early and mid) to late game that's killer because there's barely any commonality between mech and bio. Bio beyond a small amount of marines doesn't compliment late game comps like raven bc thor vikings enough to tech both paths when you really can't afford to be doing that.

So Terran get to choose: go for late game or go for early/mid game.

The issue is if you let Terran get 3+bases with mules and they build enough reactor rax or reactor factories you'll never stop the waves of hellbats and marines. I get that terran need mules, the lost mining time from building dictates that but terran don't need a 4k bank up from 1k at the end of the game - just for mule hammering.

Doesn't mean you can't win. But tell me the last time you saw a Terran that was smart enough to make 20 rax/factories to support that 4k mineral bank in the late game?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Makes it too hard to plan around in combat, has to be a flat energy cost.
> 
> Terran has a fantastic early, mid game and late. It's their transition from what's viable in those stages (early and mid) to late game that's killer because there's barely any commonality between mech and bio. Bio beyond a small amount of marines doesn't compliment late game comps like raven bc thor vikings enough to tech both paths when you really can't afford to be doing that.
> 
> So Terran get to choose: go for late game or go for early/mid game.
> 
> The issue is if you let Terran get 3+bases with mules and they build enough reactor rax or reactor factories you'll never stop the waves of hellbats and marines. I get that terran need mules, the lost mining time from building dictates that but terran don't need a 4k bank up from 1k at the end of the game - just for mule hammering.
> 
> Doesn't mean you can't win. But tell me the last time you saw a Terran that was smart enough to make 20 rax/factories to support that 4k mineral bank in the late game?


I think it works out fine though, since our units are typically slower/harder to replace it seems like having a bigger bank and perhaps more unit producing structures is just one way of balancing that fact late game. It just seems like people are against it in theory but there really isn't any late game problems with Terran because of it.


----------



## biz1

it has nothing to do with balance

it's just hard to break a turtle for the bottom 90% of players.
people want to harass 4th's and 5th's and 6th's and have it actually mean something

the whole asymmetrical thing doesn't scale equally across difficulty levels


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think it works out fine though, since our units are typically slower/harder to replace it seems like having a bigger bank and perhaps more unit producing structures is just one way of balancing that fact late game. It just seems like people are against it in theory but there really isn't any late game problems with Terran because of it.


Slower, yeah. Harder to replace? Not really. Reactors are a thing. The issue is the gas economy to support reactor'd units that aren't named Marine, Helion or Hellbat and additional tech lab facilities for stuff like Thors+friends.

It's not theory at all. My question still stands because I'm making a point here. When's the last time you saw a Terran make enough production to use their mule hammer bank? Economy means nothing if you don't have the means to spend it fast enough.


----------



## DIYDeath

Another PvT. People that complain about Gateway units being bad just don't know how to use them. xD

Again *SAFE FOR WORK* but *VOLUME IS LOUD* and there's music. Same artist from last video.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Same artist from last video.


You know how to get me to watch something, I'll give you that


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You know how to get me to watch something, I'll give you that


xD Are the videos entertaining? I don't really do the whole video thing usually. Feedback is welcome in both gameplay and for the videos. Warp Gate was like a second away from finishing, I was gonna warp in a zealot on the high ground if it did. Just 1 and continue as per "normal".


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Another PvT. People that complain about Gateway units being bad just don't know how to use them. xD
> 
> Again *SAFE FOR WORK* but *VOLUME IS LOUD* and there's music. Same artist from last video.


What league is that? Terran player played horribly. Rename the video to Gateway units only succeed when opponents suck.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> What league is that? Terran player played horribly. Rename the video to Gateway units only succeed when opponents suck.


He played horribly because I stuffed units into his nat and gas blocked him so he couldn't afford better tech.









Video title is blunt and apt but that's the point.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> He played horribly because I stuffed units into his nat and gas blocked him so he couldn't afford better tech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video title is blunt and apt but that's the point.


Nonetheless its good to see a Protoss winning without using colossus, templars or air units. So good job on that.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> It's not theory at all. My question still stands because I'm making a point here. When's the last time you saw a Terran make enough production to use their mule hammer bank? Economy means nothing if you don't have the means to spend it fast enough.


I'd say all the time really. I think you are over estimating that bank, generally high level Terran have the ideal production, because if you over produce unit producing structures you actually can build less units, so you want the perfect ratio. I don't often see an issue with Terran losing because they had a huge bank of minerals, if anyone I see Zergs being the most guilty of that.


----------



## DoomDash

Guy was being a jerk so I floated buildings to the corner and he went idle. I was alt-tabbed watching youtube anyway, but first one!!!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Nonetheless its good to see a Protoss winning without using colossus, templars or air units. So good job on that.


Thanks, I prefer to use the more skilled options, I don't really want to use gimmicky units unless I'm forced into it. Hence the aggression because you can't let a terran get their maine count too high or you absolutely need splash damage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'd say all the time really. I think you are over estimating that bank, generally high level Terran have the ideal production, because if you over produce unit producing structures you actually can build less units, so you want the perfect ratio. I don't often see an issue with Terran losing because they had a huge bank of minerals, if anyone I see Zergs being the most guilty of that.


Yeah, unless your name is Soo and you play zerg you're guilty of missing injects and not making macro hatcheries. But even in pro games once the economy gets going I see mass mules called down, a massive spike in income over 30 seconds and not enough production to force it all out in case of a bad situation.

I hate that part about Terran, I can't judge the ratio well, that's why I prefer Protoss since that's not really a problem for them, huzzah for batch building production!


----------



## DoomDash

This is why I love Terran. Yeah I love their defensive ability, and how with the proper buildings and just a few units you can hold off so much. This picture is extremely hard to break unless Zerg is really smart about it. I actually used to not have the 2nd row of depots and lost a lot of games because of the multipronged aggression on this map.



Terran is so damn cool, which is why I could never play another race personally.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Terran is so damn cool, which is why I could never play another race personally.


Racist! All races are equally cool!


----------



## Cybertox




----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> He played horribly because I stuffed units into his nat and gas blocked him so he couldn't afford better tech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video title is blunt and apt but that's the point.


hm but thats my issue here aswell. Those terrans are just not good enough and a good terran player will win against gateway only most of the time.
Gateway + HT is really cool but only up to a certain point.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> hm but thats my issue here aswell. Those terrans are just not good enough and a good terran player will win against gateway only most of the time.
> Gateway + HT is really cool but only up to a certain point.


Totally, that's why if Im doing pure gateway I put early pressure on and keep it there. A Terran can't macro up, tech and get units. They just don't have the resources to handle it all on 1-2 bases. That video is what happens when they try, they lose so much mining time that they can't recover.

The other video is better for skill, the opponent actually survives and gets out Ravens, have to pull out some fancy splitting and baiting. Probably could have won a straight up enguagement but why risk getting mass seeker'd?


----------



## DoomDash

I love when Protoss goes ground against me in LotV, usually means I have a strong chance of winning.


----------



## Pandora51

But Im saying they are not good enough to survive the first minutes. Your early push looks good and they are not able to handle it.

Why ravens? Mass bio or bio + ghost is the better choice. Espacially against HTs.

The question is will this work against a similar good player or in the master or GM league?

I like the idea but I have many doubts because pvt can be quite tough with HTs or Colossi already.
Maybe mech against protoss is a good comparison. It can be really strong but overall its weaker than bio.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> But Im saying they are not good enough to survive the first minutes. Your early push looks good and they are not able to handle it.
> 
> Why ravens? Mass bio or bio + ghost is the better choice. Espacially against HTs.
> 
> The question is will this work against a similar good player or in the master or GM league?
> 
> I like the idea but I have many doubts because pvt can be quite tough with HTs or Colossi already.
> Maybe mech against protoss is a good comparison. It can be really strong but overall its weaker than bio.


I get what you're saying and I mostly agree. I need much, much better terran opponents.

Ravens because I already had map control and DT out on the map. 1-2 EMPs weren't going to be enough. Especially with easy access to obs. What he really needed was Ghosts+Ravens together and snipe any observers. In fact I think that's what he was aiming for but just didn't have the gas to pull it off without losing integral seeker missles and any sembalance of a reasonable marauder count (if I hadn't split my force and planned to bait him out of position with a few good splits to mitigate the seeker damage I could have easily lost the game to a few money seekers on my HT or something. And he was looking to score seeker hits on high value units, you could tell by how he was controlling the Ravens and not instantly casting seeker).

I can't say anything for GM but it'll work well into high daimond at least. It'll probably work on masters too but they're more likely to start splitting/stuttering individual units. A lot of players get into masters by getting really good at certain strategies. Gas blocking and constant pressure deviate them from their strategies which really impacts their skill. Right now I'm working to adapt the strategy into my PvZ, it's significantly harder but I'm still looking for a way to put early pressure on that doesn't get me killed by a counter attack (because I hate vsing mass muta+corrupter+hydras, I mean I can beat it but it takes so much apm out of me that I'm left drained half way through the game from phoenix control+macroing+trying to send zealot hitsquads to each base).

What I'm doing is not using a build and adherning to a general idea of what I want to do that can branch off into several different ideas if I don't like what I scout, I'm also trying to dictate the pace of the game by controlling the economy the terran has and forcing them to produce units instead of scvs while keeping the marine count reasonable.

It's about taking multiple little wins that snowball into huge advantage, doing it efficiently and having options.
It's a very Heath Ledger's Joker kind of approach to sc2 "Say that's a nice strategy you have there. Shame if someone were to screw it up..."


----------



## DoomDash

Ghost openers still making me lawl. I don't understand how this meta isn't figured out yet, I mean I'm even breaking my probe killing records.

@ 5min!


and still useful later!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Ghost openers still making me lawl. I don't understand how this meta isn't figured out yet, I mean I'm even breaking my probe killing records.
> 
> @ 5min!
> 
> 
> and still useful later!


It's more or less because Protoss have crappy detect. We're literally forced into Observers which kills our potential army early game. So to deal with Ghosts we basically have to make ourselves weak.

It's the same thing vs rushed Widow Mines, get detect asap and the bio kills you, ignore the mines and have an uphill battle where mines start to snowball.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> It's more or less because Protoss have crappy detect. We're literally forced into Observers which kills our potential army early game. So to deal with Ghosts we basically have to make ourselves weak.
> 
> It's the same thing vs rushed Widow Mines, get detect asap and the bio kills you, ignore the mines and have an uphill battle where mines start to snowball.


I actually think you guys have pretty good detection, but the meta just makes protoss feel safe enough that they don't think they need it anymore, which would be wrong.

But I guess if you just want gateway only going out of your way for things kinda sucks. Still over all think its okay.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> It's more or less because Protoss have crappy detect. We're literally forced into Observers which kills our potential army early game. So to deal with Ghosts we basically have to make ourselves weak.
> 
> It's the same thing vs rushed Widow Mines, get detect asap and the bio kills you, ignore the mines and have an uphill battle where mines start to snowball.


Forgot about Photon Cannons?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Forgot about Photon Cannons?


Was that a joke?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Was that a joke?


One photon cannon denies both widow mines and ghosts, what? Never went forge? Always rushing to gates?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I actually think you guys have pretty good detection, but the meta just makes protoss feel safe enough that they don't think they need it anymore, which would be wrong.
> 
> But I guess if you just want gateway only going out of your way for things kinda sucks. Still over all think its okay.


It's not even about that, it's about having to get robo asap every PvT on top of getting a stalker and or msc out asap becaus every terran and their mother does fast reaper scout into offensive mines into cc with like 6+ rax pumping bio.

So Protoss have to get out ranged immediately or they auto lose to reaper scout then follow it up with observers, expand and then contend with a stim timing while you just sacrificed a ton of economy which in turn means you won't have the numbers or the splash damage to fight the bio. And if the terran scans and kills your observer the mines will be free to move up while the bio pushes until you get a new observer.

Stuff like that is essentially what's wrong with sc2. Dumb 1 base timings that set the stage for the entire game, that have only one avenue of counter play. LotV economy helps aleviate that by making a lot of those 1 base timings irrelavent. Thankfully.

Not to be confused with mine drops, mine drops are easy enough to deal with.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> One photon cannon denies both widow mines and ghosts, what? Never went forge? Always rushing to gates?


You think terran players only mine drop? What about the mines offensive burrowing with the bio? Unless photon cannons can now move, not gonna be a big help.

Mine drops aren't a problem. Annoying, sure, but not a problem.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You think terran players only mine drop? What about the mines offensive burrowing with the bio? Unless photon cannons can now move, not gonna be a big help.
> 
> Mine drops aren't a problem. Annoying, sure, but not a problem.


I am talking about early game, in mid game it is expected that a Toss player already has a robo and at least one observer.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I am talking about early game, in mid game it is expected that a Toss player already has a robo and at least one observer.


Do you know how early bio mine pushes out? Around 7 mins. Sure I can have obserers out by then. But not without sacrificing units I need to kill the bio because it's still too early for splash damage.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Do you know how early bio mine pushes out? Around 7 mins. Sure I can have obserers out by then. But not without sacrificing units I need to kill the bio because it's still too early for splash damage.


I don't really think this is a problem in LotV since adepts are so tanky and efficient though. Should give you plenty of time to survive the transition to detection.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't really think this is a problem in LotV since adepts are so tanky and efficient though. Should give you plenty of time to survive the transition to detection.


It also gets rid of the thing that spawns this problem: reaper scout timing. If I wasn't forced into fast stalker I could go fast robo and not kill myself in the process. It's the combination while your enemy gets their CC that's freaking stupid. Individually it's just annoying but doable.

In any case I've been rocking PvZ really hard lately with mass phoenix chargelot.

Phoenix move out, spores or no spores. I get damage done. Lots of it. Queens, ovies and hydras just die. I typically stay away from drones unless they're transferring or I find a hole in the spore net.

The chargelots are mostly there to force the zerg army to run to a base where the phoenix just lift and kill everything as they rush to said base. After that you attack multiple bases with chargelots and they just fall apart, can't consolidate their forces, they're usually supply blocked and all their larva are gone because they can't inject.

I haven't lost a game doing it yet. If I ever do it off of 3 bases I might try adding some Dark Templar for a faux bisu bisu build. Usually they crumple before the 3rd is ever needed though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> It also gets rid of the thing that spawns this problem: reaper scout timing. If I wasn't forced into fast stalker I could go fast robo and not kill myself in the process. It's the combination while your enemy gets their CC that's freaking stupid. Individually it's just annoying but doable.
> 
> In any case I've been rocking PvZ really hard lately with mass phoenix chargelot.
> 
> Phoenix move out, spores or no spores. I get damage done. Lots of it. Queens, ovies and hydras just die. I typically stay away from drones unless they're transferring or I find a hole in the spore net.
> 
> The chargelots are mostly there to force the zerg army to run to a base where the phoenix just lift and kill everything as they rush to said base. After that you attack multiple bases with chargelots and they just fall apart, can't consolidate their forces, they're usually supply blocked and all their larva are gone because they can't inject.
> 
> I haven't lost a game doing it yet. If I ever do it off of 3 bases I might try adding some Dark Templar for a faux bisu bisu build. Usually they crumple before the 3rd is ever needed though.


Protoss players I play get a Stalker like 1 in 20 games, so I don't know about that really. I'm not saying you can skip a Stalker if they go reaper, but I almost never see stalkers so I feel like Protoss has figured out a way to bypass that.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Protoss players I play get a Stalker like 1 in 20 games, so I don't know about that really. I'm not saying you can skip a Stalker if they go reaper, but I almost never see stalkers so I feel like Protoss has figured out a way to bypass that.


If I skip stalker I auto lose, they just turn their scouting reaper into a harass reaper wih stutter step and kill half my probes. Can't run from it, best you can do it split your probes and try to surround. Which is still auto lose due to casualties and lost mining time, you just get the satisfaction of killing that 1 reaper assuming you actually killed the reaper. The other option is the msc but that's even more gas and delayed probe production.

It's doable. It's just not doable plus getting observers plus getting enough troops to fight the bio while getting your 2nd going because they will have theirs going behind this.

You know when blink all-in was almost impossible for terran to hold and be okay after? That's what fast reaper into bio mine with a CC behind it is to Protoss. It forces bad openers to simply not die, openers that are awful vs stim timings.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If I skip stalker I auto lose, they just turn their scouting reaper into a harass reaper wih stutter step and kill half my probes. Can't run from it, best you can do it split your probes and try to surround. Which is still auto lose due to casualties and lost mining time, you just get the satisfaction of killing that 1 reaper assuming you actually killed the reaper. The other option is the msc but that's even more gas and delayed probe production.


I think most people I play opt for MSC. It seems strong to me, I'd personally say skip the stalker, in legacy. At least try it a bit more.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think most people I play opt for MSC. It seems strong to me, I'd personally say skip the stalker, in legacy. At least try it a bit more.


LotV is gonna be a whole different ball game. I'm talking HotS right now. I don't think there is an opener vs fast reaper into bio mine with a cc behind it. Either I doom DT drop and it wins or I lose. I've tried faster timings, slower timings. Nothing works and keeps me economically viable.

I'm at the point where it's going to be cheese or dark shrine every game, I just don't see any other way and I've thought about this for a week.

I'm happy my mass phoenix off of a 2x Stargate behind a FFE with chargelots is working so well. All gas goes into Phoenix, ups and a mothership (I get it to cloak a cannon wall at my nat because you will get all-in'd once the zerg loses their queens and tons of ovies).

Before I was getting carriers with it but I found it's just better to pump phoenix and chargelot exclusively with all gas going into chrono'd ups and the phoenix. Zerg can't deal with phoenix the same way Protoss can't deal with mutas (they can but it's annoying and involves over making Infestors).


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> LotV is gonna be a whole different ball game. I'm talking HotS right now. I don't think there is an opener vs fast reaper into bio mine with a cc behind it. Either I doom DT drop and it wins or I lose. I've tried faster timings, slower timings. Nothing works and keeps me economically viable.
> 
> I'm at the point where it's going to be cheese or dark shrine every game, I just don't see any other way and I've thought about this for a week.
> 
> I'm happy my mass phoenix off of a 2x Stargate behind a FFE with chargelots is working so well. All gas goes into Phoenix, ups and a mothership (I get it to cloak a cannon wall at my nat because you will get all-in'd once the zerg loses their queens and tons of ovies).
> 
> Before I was getting carriers with it but I found it's just better to pump phoenix and chargelot exclusively with all gas going into chrono'd ups and the phoenix. Zerg can't deal with phoenix the same way Protoss can't deal with mutas (they can but it's annoying and involves over making Infestors).


do you have a replay file you could upload so I can take a look at this? I would like to see the timings, etc. to try it out, that sounds fun.

SG/FFE/Chargelots with mothership


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> do you have a replay file you could upload so I can take a look at this? I would like to see the timings, etc. to try it out, that sounds fun.
> 
> SG/FFE/Chargelots with mothership


Not a replay that I'm proud of, it's a 2 base all-in with a gigantic mineral bank and like 12 gates (mineral bank dries up pretty fast with the chargelot spams). I'm still working out the kinks and getting it efficient. If you still want a replay with that in mind, sure.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Solid opener but the robo is too late for bio mine, it's only good against mine drops. It's funny that the advice is to play blind.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Not a replay that I'm proud of, it's a 2 base all-in with a gigantic mineral bank and like 12 gates (mineral bank dries up pretty fast with the chargelot spams). I'm still working out the kinks and getting it efficient. If you still want a replay with that in mind, sure.


yes sir, i would love one. I'm not a pro player and don't really care how you play, or how good you are. I won't judge.









I just want it for the sake of having a baseline, and an idea of how it works.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> yes sir, i would love one. I'm not a pro player and don't really care how you play, or how good you are. I won't judge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want it for the sake of having a baseline, and an idea of how it works.


Give me 5 minutes, I'll host one for ya. P.S. don't call me sir. I feel old now


----------



## DIYDeath

Here ye be.

http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/1991868

I should have been harassing more with phoenix and his 7 RR was copletely fail but it works against macro builds too. Just focus queens and ovies down asap+don't let the hydra count get out of control by picking them up when they're in transit/pick around the edges of hydra balls.

Don't even bother with drones, it's better to supply block, stop injects and lol as they are forced to all-in because they will never have enough larva ever again. Muta corrupter loses so hard to the x2 stargate mass phoenix that they give up on trying to go air and have to go Infestors instead.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Solid opener but the robo is too late for bio mine, it's only good against mine drops. It's funny that the advice is to play blind.


From what this GM says this build is pretty good against all Terran openers, I'd assume if bio mine was an issue he would have mentioned it.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> From what this GM says this build is pretty good against all Terran openers, I'd assume if bio mine was an issue he would have mentioned it.


I'm just noting the timings. The robo comes too late for bio mine with a slightly delayed CC by aprox 30-60 seconds, depending on the spawning positions.


----------



## DIYDeath

Been trying to get used to this new mouse UGH I hate it. I want my old worn in mouse back but it was a garbage mouse, I was just used to it.

Even with the new mouse and constantly screwing up on my gravitons (thanx new mouse) still pwned the crap out of zerg. If you kill all their queens and ovies they have to all-in you and over produce spores because the spores just aren't enough to deal with 20+ phoenix with range upgrade. By time they get enough infestors there's so many phoenix and chargelot it just doesn't matter thanks to lack of larva and constantly being supply blocked. Hydras mean they flat out lose the game right there, phoenix destroy hydras so bad. Hydras need the Infestor support or there's just no chance, nevermind the chargelots at every base (usually at once with the phoenix running around and killing the reinforcing army so they can't ever mount a proper response).

It feels like the bisu build from BW except DT take up too much gas so instead you get chargelots. I'm trying to fit in a safe 3rd but because you literally force zerg to all-in you it's not safe until after...at which point you've already won.


----------



## DIYDeath

PvZ "Bisu Build"

Same band as last time. Video is *SAFE FOR WORK* and *VOLUME IS LOUD*.




It's based completely around not killing drones (unless it's the only thing to kill) and instead killing queens and ovies, forcing hard counters which you then hard counter. Usually with Chargelot and Dark Templar.

I felt bad, you can tell the guy has skill but he just didn't know what to do, too much damage at every turn.


----------



## ronnin426850

I want to see a team tournament on Blizzcon, 2v2 or 3v3


----------



## DoomDash

New Community Feedback Update, patch incoming tomorrow:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19136823914
Quote:


> Hey everyone, we're back with a community feedback update. There are a few topics we wanted to discuss in detail this week, so let's begin!
> 
> First, we wanted to let you know that until the release of the game, if big issues such as the Adept early/mid game issues arise, we'll be doing some quick balance updates even if they are smaller than before. Up until this point, we've had a slower balance update schedule per our community's request of having lots of changes per update. This method went well when we were making big changes to the game, but now that we're trying to fine tune the game as much as we can before release, we'd like quicker turn-arounds on balance updates even if we don't have so many changes lined up. With that in mind, we're currently aiming for the next balance update to release tomorrow.
> 
> Macro mechanics
> We agree with your feedback in that reducing their effectiveness might be a cool idea, so we'll try it out in the next balance update. We're currently thinking something like reducing larva per inject to 3, chrono boost speed buff decreased to 15% or so, and increasing the time mules need to spend while mining minerals so that it takes longer to return each trip.
> 
> At this point, we also want to let you know that it's not of much help to give us feedback on why macro mechanics have to be removed at this point. We clearly know that there are pros and cons (that we've explored in great detail) to both methods. We feel that after exploring many different angles, the best is what we have now: easier for non-pros, but just as difficult for pros. We will not be exploring a macro mechanics removal for the remainder of the beta. This doesn't mean however that we will never go back to exploring this topic again. We're currently discussing plans about when and how to explore big changes (such as this one) after Legacy of the Void ships. We'll try to settle on some discussion points before Blizzcon so that we can talk to you all about this at panels, interviews, or discussions. For now however, we'd like to focus on balancing the game.
> 
> Concerning macro mechanics, please focus your discussions around keeping the current ones in the beta vs. reverting back to Heart of the Swarm. This is the last thing we're trying to decide for macro mechanics. Also, keep in mind that we can continue tuning the numbers for macro mechanics until we arrive in a good place.
> 
> Swarm Host
> We hear your feedback in that Swarm Hosts aren't used as much as other units. In Void, they are much stronger compared to the HotS version, so we'd like to take our time to make sure that the unit truly needs to be buffed before making a call. Keep in mind, these types of number tweaks can be done fairly easily, so if you guys could help us test their exact state right now, it'll be extremely helpful.
> 
> Adept
> Concerning Adepts, we'd like to first try reducing their health to see how that changes the early game use of Adepts. For their later game upgrade, we've been exploring various stat upgrades and where we landed on for now is an attack period reduction.
> 
> This is what we're seeing with the new upgrade in comparison with the Zealot:
> 
> Adepts are much better at worker line harassment vs. Zealots are much better at structure harassment.
> Defensive cases are more interesting with Zealots warping in right on top of enemy units vs. Adepts needing to warp in with positioning in mind vs. melee units.
> In larger combat, Adepts will serve mostly as a source of damage vs. Zealots serving as meat-shields (as they already do).
> We would see a great reduction in Adepts just teleporting on top of enemy armies, and so good positioning of the Shade ability will be more critical in engagements.
> 
> We don't think we will get the new numbers perfect with the first pass, but we'll keep a close eye on the new numbers for the Adept and tune accordingly as we go forward.
> 
> Ghost Steady Targetting
> We want to first explore reducing the delay before the shot fires. If more buffs are needed after this, we'd like to explore increasing the damage output per Snipe, so that they can counter bigger units more easily.
> 
> We are aiming for these things, as well as the changes mentioned in last week's community update, to be implemented in tomorrow's balance update. Thank you.


I'm okay with a reduction in effectiveness with the macro mechanics, I was just against the removal since I found them interesting and cool. Toning them down is I think the best choice.

Ghost change, good... but kinda sucks it's still almost useless vs the unit it was previously best vs in WoL, Broodlords.

Also not seeing these enough, wonder if they will end up being good in the right hands eventually:


----------



## DIYDeath

Ive seen disruptors used well only a few times, usually with storm for when the disruptors are on CD.


----------



## Cybertox

For some reason, the only thing I am looking forward to in LOTV is the campaign, not feeling its multiplayer at all. Hopefully the story of SC2 is not going to get wrapped up in a cheesy way.


----------



## DoomDash

I just hate that of all days they are launching the same day Fallout 4 comes out. What a dic move by Blizzard.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> For some reason, the only thing I am looking forward to in LOTV is the campaign, not feeling its multiplayer at all. Hopefully the story of SC2 is not going to get wrapped up in a cheesy way.


From sc2 pro streams people are complaining about lotv multiplayer. Balance is way off and the way they're balancing it isn't optimal.

Sent from my Mi 4i using Tapatalk


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> From sc2 pro streams people are complaining about lotv multiplayer. Balance is way off and the way they're balancing it isn't optimal.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 4i using Tapatalk


Pros are complaining? I don't believe it







The outcry about LotV imbalance is nothing compared to what happened when HotS came out


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Pros are complaining? I don't believe it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The outcry about LotV imbalance is nothing compared to what happened when HotS came out


That wasn't the point.


----------



## ronnin426850

Now, this is what a Battlecruiser is supposed to be!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Now, this is what a Battlecruiser is supposed to be!


Yeah, increase the minimum system requirements and apply those balance changes to the Battlecruiser


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Yeah, increase the minimum system requirements and apply those balance changes to the Battlecruiser


Right now the "Battlecruiser" has the combat potential of a hot air balloon carrying a pair of Stormtroopers, and you know it


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Right now the "Battlecruiser" has the combat potential of a hot air balloon carrying a pair of Stormtroopers, and you know it


Indeed, its a useless unit unless you mass it. They should also make changes to the model, make it bigger and more intimidating.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> PvZ "Bisu Build"
> 
> Same band as last time. Video is *SAFE FOR WORK* and *VOLUME IS LOUD*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's based completely around not killing drones (unless it's the only thing to kill) and instead killing queens and ovies, forcing hard counters which you then hard counter. Usually with Chargelot and Dark Templar.
> 
> I felt bad, you can tell the guy has skill but he just didn't know what to do, too much damage at every turn.


Don't take this the wrong way, but a Hatch first zerg against toss and no ovie over nat allowing a cannon to kill 6 drones is not skill. It is low plat league stuff.









Edit:
You also don't send your scouting ovie in and never look at it.

Secondly you dont go 4 gas when you barely have 7 drones at your nat.

Third, you don't blindly build so much static defense at your nat entrance. Especially 4 spores. If you want static spines with detection use one spore closer to the back. Have an overseer ready.

Fourth if you see 7 phoenix come in you dont send your queens 1 by one to meet them. You gather them near the closest spore you have at a mineral line and prevent free pickups and defend. Split queens between both mineral lines with the spore support if needed. Reel the ovies in.

5th dont blind expand and then get a fourth too.

6th scout

7th pay attention to the scout

8th spread creep

9th Make something that gives you map control 12 lings will be fine. Find forward pylon.

Not a good opponent to show case your build.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> From sc2 pro streams people are complaining about lotv multiplayer. Balance is way off and the way they're balancing it isn't optimal.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 4i using Tapatalk


It's not that bad, and it will still be fun in the mean time. The biggest complaint is being addressed today supposedly (adepts).

"Starcraft is the most stressful game that exists" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRHIxcLuulQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2h4m7s

It probably is, but I love it for it.


----------



## connectwise

SC2 is DEFO the most stressful game that exist. After 5 games of ladder my whole body would be heated up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Now, this is what a Battlecruiser is supposed to be!


dat yamato kanon


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> SC2 is DEFO the most stressful game that exist. After 5 games of ladder my whole body would be heated up.


I'm playing vs AI now, to prepare myself for the stress of Bronze league ^^


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way, but a Hatch first zerg against toss and no ovie over nat allowing a cannon to kill 6 probes is not skill. It is low plat league stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> You also don't send your scouting ovie in and never look at it.
> 
> Secondly you dont go 4 gas when you barely have 7 drones at your nat.
> 
> Third, you don't blindly build so much static defense at your nat entrance. Especially 4 spores. If you want static spines with detection use one spore closer to the back. Have an overseer ready.
> 
> Fourth if you see 7 phoenix come in you dont send your queens 1 by one to meet them. You gather them near the closest spore you have at a mineral line and prevent free pickups and defend. Split queens between both mineral lines with the spore support if needed. Reel the ovies in.
> 
> 5th dont blind expand and then get a fourth too.
> 
> 6th scout
> 
> 7th pay attention to the scout
> 
> 8th spread creep
> 
> 9th Make something that gives you map control 12 lings will be fine. Find forward pylon.
> 
> Not a good opponent to show case your build.


I'm not the zerg, I don't have ovies to send.

He was going for a bane bust to break the wall. That's why the 4 gas - becasue he saw the wall and knew it was a FFE. If I skimp on that wall a bane bust will win the game. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

The spores stopped me from killing all his drones, the only issue with them was they were too far forward to provide adaquate protection.

Ovies were hovering around base while he built emergenncy spores. Queens were bunched-ish, hence the transfuses to keep them alive as I was trying to kill them.

The blind expand normally works against a walling FFE Protoss becasue they have ceeded map control. The problem was the economic damage and the larva damage I scored which never allowed him to take his new bases with a proper drone count.

He did scout, he saw a whole bunch of gateways and my wall. He missed the SG because I put it in a place I though would be isolated from slowverlord scouting given his movement patterns.

You can't creep spread when all your queens are dead.

He had a bunch of lings and a few roaches for map control.

The whole strategy revolves around making it impossible for your opponent to play the game. Not sure why you were expecting a good show game when the strategy is based on beating your opponent down so hard on the back end that they all-in you.

There were only 2 blatant misplays there:

1) not clicking the cannon to see it was a cannon and not a pylon, that cost him drones and lings.

2) building mutas instead of corrupters. He couldn't afford the spores to keep me out and the hydra count to handle phoenix. If you look at the mineral count he was starved after my attack and never had another reasonable bank again.

It's "low plat stuff" because I screwed with the zerg so badly that he couldn't make optimal decisions.


----------



## DoomDash

Patch 3.0 UI update!




and lotv balance patch:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19911023/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-october-2-2015-10-2-2015


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Patch 3.0 UI update!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and lotv balance patch:
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19911023/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-october-2-2015-10-2-2015


So they pretty much took the interface of HOTS and applied it to SC2. Miring the new campaign selection screen though.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Patch 3.0 UI update!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and lotv balance patch:
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19911023/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-october-2-2015-10-2-2015


OH GOD YES


----------



## DoomDash

Post of the year. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/495925-tlo-on-macro-mechanics


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm not the zerg, I don't have ovies to send.
> 
> He was going for a bane bust to break the wall. That's why the 4 gas - becasue he saw the wall and knew it was a FFE. If I skimp on that wall a bane bust will win the game. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
> 
> The spores stopped me from killing all his drones, the only issue with them was they were too far forward to provide adaquate protection.
> 
> Ovies were hovering around base while he built emergenncy spores. Queens were bunched-ish, hence the transfuses to keep them alive as I was trying to kill them.
> 
> The blind expand normally works against a walling FFE Protoss becasue they have ceeded map control. The problem was the economic damage and the larva damage I scored which never allowed him to take his new bases with a proper drone count.
> 
> He did scout, he saw a whole bunch of gateways and my wall. He missed the SG because I put it in a place I though would be isolated from slowverlord scouting given his movement patterns.
> 
> You can't creep spread when all your queens are dead.
> 
> He had a bunch of lings and a few roaches for map control.
> 
> The whole strategy revolves around making it impossible for your opponent to play the game. Not sure why you were expecting a good show game when the strategy is based on beating your opponent down so hard on the back end that they all-in you.
> 
> There were only 2 blatant misplays there:
> 
> 1) not clicking the cannon to see it was a cannon and not a pylon, that cost him drones and lings.
> 
> 2) building mutas instead of corrupters. He couldn't afford the spores to keep me out and the hydra count to handle phoenix. If you look at the mineral count he was starved after my attack and never had another reasonable bank again.
> 
> It's "low plat stuff" because I screwed with the zerg so badly that he couldn't make optimal decisions.


I know you weren't the zerg.

Also, you don't need 4 gas for bane busts. I know, but cause I bane 2 base busted in Masters league with one gas. I even cut drones and still had more than him.

When I say spread creep I mean he had at least 4 queens before you showed up with the first phoenix and had only 2 creep tumors. He had plenty of time to spread creep.

I also do not remember him ever look at your base but to click the rally points.

I do understand the point of your build and yes the harass is good. I just feel like he was a bad example and to say he obviously had skill isn't true imo.

The spores I am referring to are at the ramp of his nat. Around his hatch is fine and needed against that many phoenix.

As for the blatant misses on his part, from what I seen he had no clue the pylon and cannon was there until his creep found it. That is a blunder, even in gold league.

Lastly, there was so much he could have done well before your first attack as far as fundamentals that he didn't. He hindered his self before you even showed up and since he didn't handle the phoenix well it highlighted his short comings even further.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Post of the year. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/495925-tlo-on-macro-mechanics


I agree 100% with TLO


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I know you weren't the zerg.
> 
> Also, you don't need 4 gas for bane busts. I know, but cause I bane 2 base busted in Masters league with one gas. I even cut drones and still had more than him.
> 
> When I say spread creep I mean he had at least 4 queens before you showed up with the first phoenix and had only 2 creep tumors. He had plenty of time to spread creep.
> 
> I also do not remember him ever look at your base but to click the rally points.
> 
> I do understand the point of your build and yes the harass is good. I just feel like he was a bad example and to say he obviously had skill isn't true imo.
> 
> The spores I am referring to are at the ramp of his nat. Around his hatch is fine and needed against that many phoenix.
> 
> As for the blatant misses on his part, from what I seen he had no clue the pylon and cannon was there until his creep found it. That is a blunder, even in gold league.
> 
> Lastly, there was so much he could have done well before your first attack as far as fundamentals that he didn't. He hindered his self before you even showed up and since he didn't handle the phoenix well it highlighted his short comings even further.


I built that pylon in a blind spot that's pretty much just big enough for a pylon and a probe without being seen, waited until the hatchery was too far along to be cancelled, then built the cannon. It was a dirty trick that probably screwed him over hard. Losing 6 drones and 2 lings to a cannon before you're even close to saturating your main hurts a lot.

I said he had skill because the reactions, bar the mutas were right. There were just small execution errors. Spores at the nat were too far forward, mutas were a bad choice with that many phoenix out but would have been great if he managed to get corrupters too.

Yeah, I think I got in his head. You could see him getting flustered and when I left him alone to probe hard you could see him start to recover...but there was just too much damage done already and it snowballed so much.

It's kinda like kicking someone in the nads and then giving them a bloody nose when they drop to their knees.

I'd keep aiming for better examples but I had to replace my mouse...and this new one...well lets just say I can't do phoenix micro with a 0.5 second click delay. I tried, I thought I lost my mojo but in a PvZ I was clicking on drones with graviton perfectly and I was getting a invalid target message becasue they were gone by time the click registered. I was so stinking mad. So until I get a better mouse no competitive sc2 for me.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I built that pylon in a blind spot that's pretty much just big enough for a pylon and a probe without being seen, waited until the hatchery was too far along to be cancelled, then built the cannon. It was a dirty trick that probably screwed him over hard. Losing 6 drones and 2 lings to a cannon before you're even close to saturating your main hurts a lot.
> 
> I said he had skill because the reactions, bar the mutas were right. There were just small execution errors. Spores at the nat were too far forward, mutas were a bad choice with that many phoenix out but would have been great if he managed to get corrupters too.
> 
> Yeah, I think I got in his head. You could see him getting flustered and when I left him alone to probe hard you could see him start to recover...but there was just too much damage done already and it snowballed so much.
> 
> It's kinda like kicking someone in the nads and then giving them a bloody nose when they drop to their knees.
> 
> I'd keep aiming for better examples but I had to replace my mouse...and this new one...well lets just say I can't do phoenix micro with a 0.5 second click delay. I tried, I thought I lost my mojo but in a PvZ I was clicking on drones with graviton perfectly and I was getting a invalid target message becasue they were gone by time the click registered. I was so stinking mad. So until I get a better mouse no competitive sc2 for me.


I understand.

As for the hidden pylon and cannon I think you are missing my point. I am saying the 2nd overload is supposed to go to the natural expansion before the hatch even goes down. This is so you have vision of your expo and you can pull 2-4 drones to shut it down. Also, if you build your pool at 15 then do a 15 hatch you have 4 lings to stop any pylon play and you can even harass the FFE because 50% of the time the cannon is not even finished. I have been able to kill 4 probes with two lings so many times it ain't funny.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I understand.
> 
> As for the hidden pylon and cannon I think you are missing my point. I am saying the 2nd overload is supposed to go to the natural expansion before the hatch even goes down. This is so you have vision of your expo and you can pull 2-4 drones to shut it down. Also, if you build your pool at 15 then do a 15 hatch you have 4 lings to stop any pylon play and you can even harass the FFE because 50% of the time the cannon is not even finished. I have been able to kill 4 probes with two lings so many times it ain't funny.


Sounds like the protoss you vs have no clue what a FFE is supposed to do if they're letting you runby them, even with 2 lings.

If I can hold an 8pool with my FFE, I can hold a 15 pool no problem.

That cannon spot is a dirty one, you'd have to send your 2nd ovie down lower than your hatch to spot it. I noticed in pro games on that map, there's always fog of war in that single spot, regardless of ovie vision while the hatch builds.


----------



## DoomDash

Forever Diamond in LotV. Must not be getting much better lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Forever Diamond in LotV. Must not be getting much better lol.


Meanwhile, I'm first in Bronze


----------



## Wishmaker

Meanwhile I need a third hand to play this game online







.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm first in Bronze


First in silver! Woooo


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> First in silver! Woooo


I used to be high Gold about a year ago. What race do you play?


----------



## Cybertox

Meanwhile I am playing HOTS, wont return to SC2 until LOTV releases. Artanis is coming to HOTS as a new Warrior hero.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Meanwhile I am playing HOTS, wont return to SC2 until LOTV releases. Artanis is coming to HOTS as a new Warrior hero.


Much more interested in the medic







When that gets out of PTR and hits retail, I'll be installing the game again


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Much more interested in the medic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When that gets out of PTR and hits retail, I'll be installing the game again


Yeah the medic seems like a very good healer, probably the best single target healing support hero. Looks fun too. We should play together as I see you are also located in Europe, add me Cybertox#2808.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I used to be high Gold about a year ago. What race do you play?


I started out playing zerg when larva was autocast (was very fun) and they ruined it. So I've switched to protoss now for the last ~40ish games. I think I may be getting ready to get promoted to gold possibly. Not sure.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I started out playing zerg when larva was autocast (was very fun) and they ruined it. So I've switched to protoss now for the last ~40ish games. I think I may be getting ready to get promoted to gold possibly. Not sure.


Cool, I'm protoss too







What do you play the most? I recently started doing chargelot+templar vs Terran, and Stalker+Immortal+Void Ray vs Zerg. Mirror match I stick to zealot+stalker, just try to make more and upgrade more than the enemy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Yeah the medic seems like a very good healer, probably the best single target healing support hero. Looks fun too. We should play together as I see you are also located in Europe, add me Cybertox#2808.


Request sent


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Cool, I'm protoss too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you play the most? I recently started doing chargelot+templar vs Terran, and Stalker+Immortal+Void Ray vs Zerg. Mirror match I stick to zealot+stalker, just try to make more and upgrade more than the enemy.
> Request sent


I've been doing chargelots & stalkers for terran, zerg I've been playing cheesy against lately. I'll proxy chargelots into phoenix if that doesn't work and pressure them to spam spines/anti air. They usually go roaches like crazy and then I just murder all their ovies / queens lol.

Protoss i just go 4 gate usually or ffe into voidrays or I've been playing with tempest


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I've been doing chargelots & stalkers for terran, zerg I've been playing cheesy against lately. I'll proxy chargelots into phoenix if that doesn't work and pressure them to spam spines/anti air. They usually go roaches like crazy and then I just murder all their ovies / queens lol.
> 
> Protoss i just go 4 gate usually or ffe into voidrays or I've been playing with tempest


I used to do charge+stalker vs Terran, but MMM just murders me, storm is very useful because marines clump together.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I used to do charge+stalker vs Terran, but MMM just murders me, storm is very useful because marines clump together.


yeah, I bet that would be a lot better. I honestly haven't played with templars much....I think I might give it a shot.









whats your battletag in lotv?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> yeah, I bet that would be a lot better. I honestly haven't played with templars much....I think I might give it a shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats your battletag in lotv?


I don't play the beta anymore, decided to wait for release


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> I started out playing zerg when larva was autocast (was very fun) and they ruined it. .


Because taking 4 seconds out of every 2 minutes makes the game less fun!







Seriously it's still really easy now and not very time consuming.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Because taking 4 seconds out of every 2 minutes makes the game less fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously it's still really easy now and not very time consuming.


Keyword is *annoying*


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Keyword is *annoying*


Lot's of things in SC2 could be considered annoying to lazy people. I think totalbiscuit opened my eyes to how people think this kind of stuff makes a difference, but in reality they are just using it as another excuse. If its not this it will just be something else.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Lot's of things in SC2 could be considered annoying to lazy people. I think totalbiscuit opened my eyes to how people think this kind of stuff makes a difference, but in reality they are just using it as another excuse. If its not this it will just be something else.


Lazy?







Sorry for not wanting to work hard after a day of hard work


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Lazy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for not wanting to work hard after a day of hard work


Read TLO's post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/495925-tlo-on-macro-mechanics

Injects really doesn't matter. If you don't feel like doing it often you don't have to, infact you can just make more hatcheries and skip queens like death does. You don't need to have pro level injects, the game can be fun without doing them. If you don't care about going pro level, it's not a big deal whether or not you're injecting or not, there are so many ways to win this game that missing some injects at low level is typically pretty irrelevant. You gotta remember you're always going to be playing people the same skill level as you once your MMR settles, so it really doesn't matter if you inject or not if that's how you want to play.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read TLO's post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/495925-tlo-on-macro-mechanics
> 
> Injects really doesn't matter. If you don't feel like doing it often you don't have to, infact you can just make more hatcheries and skip queens like death does. You don't need to have pro level injects, the game can be fun without doing them. If you don't care about going pro level, it's not a big deal whether or not you're injecting or not, there are so many ways to win this game that missing some injects at low level is typically pretty irrelevant. You gotta remember you're always going to be playing people the same skill level as you once your MMR settles, so it really doesn't matter if you inject or not if that's how you want to play.


Thanks







I'm not Z anyway


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not Z anyway


Well the article and points about injects carry over to all races.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Because taking 4 seconds out of every 2 minutes makes the game less fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously it's still really easy now and not very time consuming.


It does make it less fun, it's something else I have to remember to do, or else my gameplay suffers severely. I also just like protoss for the simplicity of shift click back after I shift queue all the buildings I want to make.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Lot's of things in SC2 could be considered annoying to lazy people. I think totalbiscuit opened my eyes to how people think this kind of stuff makes a difference, but in reality they are just using it as another excuse. If its not this it will just be something else.


I am lazy, what's your point? I also play starcraft 2 all night while I'm at work, because I have a lazy persons job but I make decent enough money and get paid to game/surf the internet all night.









Then I get to come home after work and spend all day with my wife/kids while normal people are having to go to work


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> It does make it less fun, it's something else I have to remember to do, or else my gameplay suffers severely. I also just like protoss for the simplicity of shift click back after I shift queue all the buildings I want to make.
> I am lazy, what's your point? I also play starcraft 2 all night while I'm at work, because I have a lazy persons job but I make decent enough money and get paid to game/surf the internet all night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I get to come home after work and spend all day with my wife/kids while normal people are having to go to work


Sounds like you're living the dream. I'd love to have a job where I got paid to mostly play games and surf the net+get paid enough to actually have a family.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Sounds like you're living the dream. I'd love to have a job where I got paid to mostly play games and surf the net+get paid enough to actually have a family.


get in the line of "armed" security, armed guards make a lot more than unarmed. typical pay averages $15-20/hr depending on experience and location. I typically average about 100-110 hours a pay period (bi-weekly). My wife doesn't even have to work, she stays at home with the kids and we plan on home schooling them. I work nights and stay up during the day, and go to sleep in the late evening.

Only bad thing is winter is coming and I'll have to idle my car all night, but its brand new under warranty so whatever. I have to idle it anyway to run my inverter to power the laptop. Another bonus is the business I guard at night gave me their wifi information and they have a badass internet connection too. So I can stream movies in HD no problem, or whatever I want to do.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> get in the line of "armed" security, armed guards make a lot more than unarmed. typical pay averages $15-20/hr depending on experience and location. I typically average about 100-110 hours a pay period (bi-weekly). My wife doesn't even have to work, she stays at home with the kids and we plan on home schooling them. I work nights and stay up during the day, and go to sleep in the late evening.
> 
> Only bad thing is winter is coming and I'll have to idle my car all night, but its brand new under warranty so whatever. I have to idle it anyway to run my inverter to power the laptop. Another bonus is the business I guard at night gave me their wifi information and they have a badass internet connection too. So I can stream movies in HD no problem, or whatever I want to do.


Thanks for the advice, I was looking for a career path to persue. Telling people how to fix computers over the phone is infuriating.

$15 is a bit low but livable for a year or two.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I was looking for a career path to persue. Telling people how to fix computers over the phone is infuriating.
> 
> */115 is a bit low but livable for a year or two.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I was looking for a career path to persue. Telling people how to fix computers over the phone is infuriating.
> 
> $15 is a bit low but livable for a year or two.


It's not bad, considering if you count in overtime. say if you get $15/hr, and work 110hrs in a pay period. That's 30hrs of overtime @ 22.50/hr...so $675 in overtime, plus your 80 hours of straight time. ($1200) So you made $1875 before taxes.....I claim 3 so they hardly take out any taxes, (2 kids / wife / head of household. (could technically claim 4) Maybe $200 bucks out of that. $3,350 a month for sitting on your ass watching a building. Not bad. It gets even better if you have experience and are at $20/hr.

Depends on your lifestyle though I guess. for ours it works out fine, and it'll only get better over time with raises, etc.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I was looking for a career path to persue. Telling people how to fix computers over the phone is infuriating.
> 
> $15 is a bit low but livable for a year or two.


Do you not get to remote in and fix it for them?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Do you not get to remote in and fix it for them?


I can but my company doesn't really like us doing it. In fact if I do it too much I could lose my job. This company is freaking terrible to work for. I'd rather work at a Mcdonalds, cooking fries to be honest.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DefCoN*
> 
> Then I get to come home after work and spend all day with my wife/kids while normal people are having to go to work


I work, have a wife + 2 kids, am going to school, and injecting isn't a problem







.


----------



## DoomDash

http://www.vice.com/read/it-was-once-the-biggest-esport-in-the-world-so-whats-happened-to-starcraft-446


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.vice.com/read/it-was-once-the-biggest-esport-in-the-world-so-whats-happened-to-starcraft-446


That article doesn't seem entirely accurate. Yes, mobas did play a part in sc2's decline by being more accessible and easier to learn but ultimately what really killed sc2 was Blizzard being too slow and reactive with balance changes.

By the end of WoL the game was a mess with instant cast fungals and archon toilets everywhere.
HotS has been largely defined by really gimmicky 1 base timings for units that do insane amounts of damage for the level of control needed and the Swarm Host dominating ZvX matchup until it was revamped, mind you the balance changes were at least frequent enough to address significant issues like hellbat drops so there was a definite improvement in that area.

All in all the reason why sc2 is in decline is becasue Blizzard mismanaged the game pretty badly on pretty much every front. It wasn't a single mistake, it was a collection of smaller mistakes which snowballed. The complete refusal to take the community seriously, bar the pro scene didn't help either.

I mean of course people are going to quit when you introduce widow mines, oracles and pre retcon Swarm Hosts. For the stage of the game that they come out at, they're far too pivotal which means you need to have percise reactions or there's a good chance you just lose. Or as I call it: bad gamestate design.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I work, have a wife + 2 kids, am going to school, and injecting isn't a problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah, I inject my wife regularly....but thats beside the point. Injecting in starcraft is overrated. I'll just play protoss








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.vice.com/read/it-was-once-the-biggest-esport-in-the-world-so-whats-happened-to-starcraft-446


I'm not a pro player, and I don't get paid to play. The game is still functioning fine and has plenty of people to continue playing multiplayer whenever I feel like firing it up....so this article really only concerns people who get paid to play, or paid to stream content. Game is still relevant for me and many other people.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That article doesn't seem entirely accurate. Yes, mobas did play a part in sc2's decline by being more accessible and easier to learn but ultimately what really killed sc2 was Blizzard being too slow and reactive with balance changes.
> 
> By the end of WoL the game was a mess with instant cast fungals and archon toilets everywhere.
> HotS has been largely defined by really gimmicky 1 base timings for units that do insane amounts of damage for the level of control needed and the Swarm Host dominating ZvX matchup until it was revamped, mind you the balance changes were at least frequent enough to address significant issues like hellbat drops so there was a definite improvement in that area.
> 
> All in all the reason why sc2 is in decline is becasue Blizzard mismanaged the game pretty badly on pretty much every front. It wasn't a single mistake, it was a collection of smaller mistakes which snowballed. The complete refusal to take the community seriously, bar the pro scene didn't help either.
> 
> I mean of course people are going to quit when you introduce widow mines, oracles and pre retcon Swarm Hosts. For the stage of the game that they come out at, they're far too pivotal which means you need to have percise reactions or there's a good chance you just lose. Or as I call it: bad gamestate design.


I don't really think it was balance issues that did major damaged SC2, to me it was just the unfriendly UI / in game community / poorly designed arcade section / lack of nameable custom games. In Brood War for example I spent thousands of hours in clan nohunters or x17, making friends, playing weekly tournaments, observing games of people I met in these channels, and visa versa. There never was that focus in SC2, and it made a huge huge difference. I did manage to kind of do the same thing, but it was all out of game on huskies old forum (into a new owner/site), but after that went down part of SC2 was dead for me, especially with this forum losing interest.

I don't think SC2 is any worse than Brood War as a game, the only thing I really feel that was wrong from the beginning was that poorly designed UI, whoever let it release like that should be fired.... and LotV might be a little too late, but I hope it's not.


----------



## Pandora51

Well in the end both points are the reason why sc2 is now where it is.

Not enough support from blizzard and now mobas.

First of all the Patch 3.0 UI Revamp . That one should have been there back in 2010!
There were Clans, groups, chat option, arcade and a few other things missing aswell! It took blizzard just too long to integrate them.
Not enough focus on the community from blizzard and that hurts ALOT in 5 years.

There is not enough or any support for teamgames. It is alot of fun and I have alot of friends who played teamgames because they didn't like 1vs1.
But it is limited. I don't know what they could do except for seperating balance and gameplay from 1vs1 and Archon Mode. But maybe it is not necessary. I don't know because teamgames are still fun.

And of course balancing is a thing (but not the only one!). DYIDeath already said some good things.

For me the swarmhost was an huge issue! The biggest overall. It almost destroyed the game for me.
Long grueling games and as a protoss a huge pain even if the protoss was in lead.
And now the SH is almost useless and no one plays them anymore.

In fact Blizzard is doing alot balancing but in the past too slow and undecided. Only minor changes over a long period of time..
They never cancelt a unit after the beta and as I see it there was never an attempt to try any major changes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> By the end of WoL the game was a mess with instant cast fungals and archon toilets everywhere.
> HotS has been largely defined by really gimmicky 1 base timings for units that do insane amounts of damage for the level of control needed.


Do mean hellbat drops?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't really think it was balance issues that did major damaged SC2, to me it was just the unfriendly UI / in game community / poorly designed arcade section / lack of nameable custom games. In Brood War for example I spent thousands of hours in clan nohunters or x17, making friends, playing weekly tournaments, observing games of people I met in these channels, and visa versa. There never was that focus in SC2, and it made a huge huge difference. I did manage to kind of do the same thing, but it was all out of game on huskies old forum (into a new owner/site), but after that went down part of SC2 was dead for me, especially with this forum losing interest.
> 
> I don't think SC2 is any worse than Brood War as a game, the only thing I really feel that was wrong from the beginning was that poorly designed UI, whoever let it release like that should be fired.... and LotV might be a little too late, but I hope it's not.


I thought the focus of sc2 was 1v1 personally.

Balance was a major factor in losing people from WoL to HotS. WoL was almost exclusively Archon Toilets and Broodlord Infestor and peple were starting to leave because of how unfair both of those strategies were. Then HotS came along with units that just did too much damage for the stage of the game those units were availible in which pushed even more players away.

Bad UI was a problem but I think you're smoothing out a lot of pretty awful design issues.
Case and point: stim is such a powerful upgrade that splash damage is absolutely required to counter it - which in turn needs units to support the splash damage so it doesn't get sniped. That lead to the rise of deathball play which mostly everyone detests.

Terrible, terrible damage was a horrible design mantra.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Well in the end both points are the reason why sc2 is now where it is.
> 
> Not enough support from blizzard and now mobas.
> 
> First of all the Patch 3.0 UI Revamp . That one should have been there back in 2010!
> There were Clans, groups, chat option, arcade and a few other things missing aswell! It took blizzard just too long to integrate them.
> Not enough focus on the community from blizzard and that hurts ALOT in 5 years.
> 
> There is not enough or any support for teamgames. It is alot of fun and I have alot of friends who played teamgames because they didn't like 1vs1.
> But it is limited. I don't know what they could do except for seperating balance and gameplay from 1vs1 and Archon Mode. But maybe it is not necessary. I don't know because teamgames are still fun.
> 
> And of course balancing is a thing (but not the only one!). DYIDeath already said some good things.
> 
> For me the swarmhost was an huge issue! The biggest overall. It almost destroyed the game for me.
> Long grueling games and as a protoss a huge pain even if the protoss was in lead.
> And now the SH is almost useless and no one plays them anymore.
> 
> In fact Blizzard is doing alot balancing but in the past too slow and undecided. Only minor changes over a long period of time..
> They never cancelt a unit after the beta and as I see it there was never an attempt to try any major changes.
> Do mean hellbat drops?


Hellbat drops are one example. Fast Oracle is another. Mines were also a pretty big problem and keep dancing between being overpowered or underpowered - depending on how bipolar they're feeling with their balance patches.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I thought the focus of sc2 was 1v1 personally.
> 
> Balance was a major factor in losing people from WoL to HotS. WoL was almost exclusively Archon Toilets and Broodlord Infestor and peple were starting to leave because of how unfair both of those strategies were. Then HotS came along with units that just did too much damage for the stage of the game those units were availible in which pushed even more players away.
> 
> Bad UI was a problem but I think you're smoothing out a lot of pretty awful design issues.
> Case and point: stim is such a powerful upgrade that splash damage is absolutely required to counter it - which in turn needs units to support the splash damage so it doesn't get sniped. That lead to the rise of deathball play which mostly everyone detests.
> 
> Terrible, terrible damage was a horrible design mantra.


1v1 was the design focus of SC2, that wasn't an issue, just needed more community support to back it up.

I didn't really feel any of those were that big of issues, at least worth quitting and not returning. Sure they were a problem but I just don't think it was the important ones like the lack of in game community that keeps people around.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I work, have a wife + 2 kids, am going to school, and injecting isn't a problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Waaayyy this. lol I get to inject even more! woot.


----------



## DoomDash

Finalized WCS bracket:


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Finalized WCS bracket:


GO POLT!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> GO POLT!


GO INnoVation! Best player in the world according to stats!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> GO INnoVation! Best player in the world according to stats!


Maybe, for now







Polt has a heart, and is a genuinely nice guy, always smiling, cracking jokes when he can. Everyone else tries to look tough (which is hilarious when they all are nerd noodlenecks), and Polt is just having the time of his life


----------



## DIYDeath

New patch is a mess, updating can cause your computer to lock up (fixed by restarting manually). Crashes everywhere, bugs everywhere. It's like Blizzard forgot to stress test their UI changes...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> New patch is a mess, updating can cause your computer to lock up (fixed by restarting manually). Crashes everywhere, bugs everywhere. It's like Blizzard forgot to stress test their UI changes...


Probably published an internal patch by mistake. Happened to Microsoft too recently.


----------



## Anti!!

Interdasting. I shall try the new patch this evening.

Dem koreans though.. Sheeeesh. Go lilbow.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Maybe, for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polt has a heart, and is a genuinely nice guy, always smiling, cracking jokes when he can. Everyone else tries to look tough (which is hilarious when they all are nerd noodlenecks), and Polt is just having the time of his life


True dat. I really do like Polt, as a person he is absolutely my favorite Korean.


----------



## Cybertox

Funny how I don't even know half of those players and feel like a lot of other ones are missing but they just retired


----------



## ronnin426850

The new UI is great! The game needed it badly.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The new UI is great! The game needed it badly.


I am digging it too. They even have the paste game link it seems. It uses the link color system they used for gear in WoW it seems. I saw one linked in the general chat, but it didn't work and I didnt stay on long enough to figure it out. I dunno if the lobby was full or something.

However, the team games are BALL SACK LAGGY lol. Terrrrible. The main menu, active background with Artanis is pretty sweet, but still buggy. Looks like it needs optimization. Big step in the right direction though. I also like how they brought back the listed available games in the arcade. What I mean is you can see a list of current lobbies currently awaiting more players to start. That is nostalgic for me.


----------



## DIYDeath

I kinda like the new UI too. It's nice. Could be better but it's certainly a gigantic leap in the right direction. It's a shame the new UI basically broke a ton of custom maps, deleted maps from people's game folders and made all older replays unplayable.

Those are some pretty big trade offs for some people and I for one am not too happy about the old replays not working anymore.

On a different note, I kinda want to hear what you guys think about the concept of increasing worker health to reduce the effectiveness of single unit harass, like a proxy oracle and friends. Not a massive buff but something like +20 heath or shields to all workers, something that allows haraass to still be effective when you attack with multiple harass units but makes single harass units not nearly as effective.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Funny how I don't even know half of those players and feel like a lot of other ones are missing but they just retired


As long as you don't assume it's because "d3ad gam3" non-sense. A lot of Koreans retire for mandatory military service, or people like MVP/Boxer because of problems with their wrists or hands.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> On a different note, I kinda want to hear what you guys think about the concept of increasing worker health to reduce the effectiveness of single unit harass, like a proxy oracle and friends. Not a massive buff but something like +20 heath or shields to all workers, something that allows haraass to still be effective when you attack with multiple harass units but makes single harass units not nearly as effective.


Eh. I wouldn't against it, but I still wish the Oracle was nerfed in some way on top of that since its nuts. Not that it hasn't been figured out for the most part, but the fact that there are Protoss players who open proxy oracle in tournaments against Terran EVERY game even with the Terran knowing shows me there is a problem and it is not risky enough.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> As long as you don't assume it's because "d3ad gam3" non-sense. A lot of Koreans retire for mandatory military service, or people like MVP/Boxer because of problems with their wrists or hands.
> 
> Eh. I wouldn't against it, but I still wish the Oracle was nerfed in some way on top of that since its nuts. Not that it hasn't been figured out for the most part, but the fact that there are Protoss players who open proxy oracle in tournaments against Terran EVERY game even with the Terran knowing shows me there is a problem and it is not risky enough.


Leaving other crazy damage harass options that come early alone but hitting the oralce is pretty biased though.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Leaving other crazy damage harass options that come early alone but hitting the oralce is pretty biased though.


Not really, I think everyone agrees oracles are completely bonkers, I don't think anyone would agree on the others. Watch Naniwa's stream, he always complains about Oracles. I would say mines were semi-close but they don't offer as much tactical usefulness compared to the oracle. Nothing is on par with Oracles.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Not really, I think everyone agrees oracles are completely bonkers, I don't think anyone would agree on the others. Watch Naniwa's stream, he always complains about Oracles. I would say mines were semi-close but they don't offer as much tactical usefulness compared to the oracle. Nothing is on par with Oracles.


You can't compare losing 10-18+ probes (mine drops) to losing 5-10 SCVs (proxy oracle). They're on totally different levels of damage due to how the units work (splash damage with crazy leash range vs single target damage on short range). Yeah, I'm calling bias on this one.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You can't compare losing 10-18+ probes (mine drops) to losing 5-10 SCVs (proxy oracle). They're on totally different levels of damage due to how the units work (splash damage with crazy leash range vs single target damage on short range). Yeah, I'm calling bias on this one.


Mines are extremely easy to avoid if you're paying attention, can be baited by a single unit, etc etc. Oracles if you don't blind counter them you will lose more than 15 SCV's easily. Basically all Terrans play to blind counter them now, even my ghost opener is a blind counter to oracles. Mines are really really strong, but they are far less reliable in most situations, even with 0 defense (because of the ability to bait or just avoid). Not even the Reaver was as crazy as the oracle.

Like I've been playing vs mine drops in TvT for years now and I typically almost lose nothing, not because of detection, because I just move my scvs and bait the mine. Any competent Protoss player unless unlucky will do the same thing.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Mines are extremely easy to avoid if you're paying attention, can be baited by a single unit, etc etc. Oracles if you don't blind counter them you will lose more than 15 SCV's easily. Basically all Terrans play to blind counter them now, even my ghost opener is a blind counter to oracles. Mines are really really strong, but they are far less reliable in most situations, even with 0 defense (because of the ability to bait or just avoid). Not even the Reaver was as crazy as the oracle.
> 
> Like I've been playing vs mine drops in TvT for years now and I typically almost lose nothing, not because of detection, because I just move my scvs and bait the mine. Any competent Protoss player unless unlucky will do the same thing.


TvT=/=PvT. TvT you have on demand detect if needed that you don't have to go out of your way to get. In PvT you MUST get observers or mine drops will wreck you hard because of the anti-shield damage.

Yes they're easy to avoid but that's not the point. The reason why they're such a large issue is because the effort to use mines vs the effort to counter them has such a massive disparity it's crazy. Even Oracles take more skill than mines, at least with Oracles you have to position properly and focus fire+retreat. They're also far too expensive to just sacrifice, hoping to find damage unlike mines.

Position mines in a reasonable spot and that's that bar retreating. No micro, no nothing. Just burrow and don't leave them there when you're in trouble. You also forget that mines don't one shot SCVs so even if the leash range stretches and you take a nasty hit it's not the end of the world because you probably didn't lose much to it.

Oracles are pretty grand, I won't deny that. However if you lose 15 SCVs to an Oracle that means you didn't pull your SCVs as soon as you see the attack on the mini map. Even if Protoss see the attack and pull mines still can have their range stretch to accomidate. A proxy Oracle will never have enough energy to outright kill 15 SCVs. That's a 2 Oracle job.

There have been many times Ive had and seen this scenario play out: Terran boosts in, drops marines while moving+1 initial mine, Protoss pulls probes immediately but there's 1 mine that is the last to drop+burrow which catches one of the last probes. The leash range stretches to a good 7-9 range and obliterates a huge chunk of your probes in retreat. Regardless of perfect pulls due to boost. That's not a complaint against boost, it's just pointing out that if you're playing a high level opponent they will make mines find damage and because of the anti-shield damage it will cause massive damage.

And all Terran had to do is press B, hold shift and drop, then select mines as they drop and press B again. Not exactly difficult to do and almost no risk involved. Heck, Terran don't even need to go out of their way to implement this because mines just require a factory which is on the way to starport.

It also forces Protoss into Robo every single game which makes Vikings live. Don't go Robo? Then mines will wreck your army. Oracles aren't very good at detection and Protoss only have 3 options for detect, 2 of which aren't exactly decent.

The lack of decent detect from Protoss isn't the fault of the mine so I will admit that the problem is also partly due to bad design of the Protoss race even though Zerg have similar but not nearly as bad issues (thanks to zerglings being cheap enough to sacrifice to mines).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> TvT=/=PvT. TvT you have on demand detect if needed that you don't have to go out of your way to get. In PvT you MUST get observers or mine drops will wreck you hard because of the anti-shield damage.
> 
> Yes they're easy to avoid but that's not the point. The reason why they're such a large issue is because the effort to use mines vs the effort to counter them has such a massive disparity it's crazy. Even Oracles take more skill than mines, at least with Oracles you have to position properly and focus fire+retreat.
> 
> Position mines in a reasonable spot and that's that bar retreating. No micro, no nothing. Just burrow and don't leave them there when you're in trouble. You also forget that mines don't one shot SCVs so even if the leash range stretches and you take a nasty hit it's not the end of the world because you probably didn't lose much to it.
> 
> Oracles are pretty grand, I won't deny that. However if you lose 15 SCVs to an Oracle that means you didn't pull your SCVs as soon as you see the attack on the mini map. Even if Protoss see the attack and pull mines still can have their range stretch to accomidate. A proxy Oracle will never have enough energy to outright kill 15 SCVs. That's a 2 Oracle job.
> 
> There have been many times Ive had and seen this scenario play out: Terran boosts in, drops marines while moving+1 initial mine, Protoss pulls probes immediately but there's 1 mine that is the last to drop+burrow which catches one of the last probes. The leash range stretches to a good 7-9 range and obliterates a huge chunk of your probes in retreat. Regardless of perfect pulls due to boost. That's not a complaint against boost, it's just pointing out that if you're playing a high level opponent they will make mines find damage and because of the anti-shield damage it will cause massive damage.
> 
> And all Terran had to do is press B, hold shift and drop, then select mines as they drop and press B again. Not exactly difficult to do and almost no risk involved. Heck, Terran don't even need to go out of their way to implement this because mines just require a factory which is on the way to starport.
> 
> It also forces Protoss into Robo every single game which makes Vikings live. Don't go Robo? Then mines will wreck your army. Oracles aren't very good at detection and Protoss only have 3 options for detect, 2 of which aren't exactly decent.
> 
> The lack of decent detect from Protoss isn't the fault of the mine s I will admit that the problem is also partly due to bad design of the Protoss race even thoughZerg have similar but not nearly as bad issues (thanks to zerglings being cheap enough to sacrifice to mines).


I'm not really up to date on HotS, but like I said robos aren't even made by 90% of Protoss players in LotV at any reasonable time. This is why I have such success with Ghosts.

Mines are easy, sure , but they are also pretty easy to dodge in the situations we are talking about (I'm not talking about anything beyond the worker harass). Oracles can mow down what, 5 marines by themselves? It's not even a matter of killing SCV's that is entirely the issue, because if the first one mows down most of the marines the second one can clean house and basically end the game. You can say what you want about mines but they can only do so much damage in comparison. Yeah the good Terrans will force some damage, but the good Protoss players keep it minimal on the other side of that. Very rarely do you see mine drops winning or losing games early game, unlike Oracles.

And while mines are technically plant and look away units they can do nothing in between attacks and have huge down sides. The oracle might be "harder" to micro, but it's probably over all the best and easiest unit that requires micro, to micro. I mean with that move speed for an air unit it's hard to imagine a more forgiving unit. It's like pay attention to it and you're about as good as any pro with it, because it's that easy.

And yeah TvT and TvP aren't the same, but I've been out of scans at nearly 0 energy back when scan was at 100 and it still was never a huge issue. The bonus damage to shields would be absolutely irrelevant even if it was vs SCV's in my experience. You can be completely unready for a mine drop and take minimal losses if you micro/pull correctly, you can't say that about not being prepared for an oracle period. You're dead.

Also I've done tons of mine drops vs P, meh.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm not really up to date on HotS, but like I said robos aren't even made by 90% of Protoss players in LotV at any reasonable time. This is why I have such success with Ghosts.
> 
> Mines are easy, sure , but they are also pretty easy to dodge in the situations we are talking about (I'm not talking about anything beyond the worker harass). Oracles can mow down what, 5 marines by themselves? It's not even a matter of killing SCV's that is entirely the issue, because if the first one mows down most of the marines the second one can clean house and basically end the game. You can say what you want about mines but they can only do so much damage in comparison. Yeah the good Terrans will force some damage, but the good Protoss players keep it minimal on the other side of that. Very rarely do you see mine drops winning or losing games early game, unlike Oracles.
> 
> And while mines are technically plant and look away units they can do nothing in between attacks and have huge down sides. The oracle might be "harder" to micro, but it's probably over all the best and easiest unit that requires micro, to micro. I mean with that move speed for an air unit it's hard to imagine a more forgiving unit. It's like pay attention to it and you're about as good as any pro with it, because it's that easy.
> 
> And yeah TvT and TvP aren't the same, but I've been out of scans at nearly 0 energy back when scan was at 100 and it still was never a huge issue. The bonus damage to shields would be absolutely irrelevant even if it was vs SCV's in my experience. You can be completely unready for a mine drop and take minimal losses if you micro/pull correctly, you can't say that about not being prepared for an oracle period. You're dead.


If you're unready for a mine drop you lose the game. Mines are that effective vs Protoss. Lets say you're not ready for a mine drop, you don't have a robo up at all. Mines deny huge amounts of mining time which in turn allows things like a stim timing to utterly decimate the Protoss who can't even fight back now due to that lost mining time. I'm referencing HotS because I don't know LotV timings but I imagine they've vastly different due to the economy. I can't comment on that without looking like an idiot.

Oracles are fairly low skill ceiling units, I won't bother denying that but it's irrelavent because of the tech trees. In HotS does it hurt to get a fast engi bay? Not really. In HotS does it hurt to get a gate, a cyber core then a Stalker and/or MSC and then a robo at the same time as expanding? Most definitely and Protoss are forced into that every game due to mines. If you don't then a terran who uses mines will destroy you. But if they don't you're so far behind on income you'll be fighting uphill.

Best part is if the terran knows how to wall, you will never know the mine is coming because you can't scout it until you get observers anyhow.

Imaine if Oracles forced you into getting a fast Ghost Academy every game, fast ghost cloak every game and then you had to build a nuke. All while trying to expand and maintain your income+a skeleton protection force for any early agression. That's what mines do to Protoss in HotS and it's why I'm vocal on the subject.

I'm no slouch when it comes to PvT, I can beat low masters (I've even beaten a few Korean mid masters) and I have a very difficult time vs mines. I know how to beat them and I can easily implement the strategy needed to beat them (don't even bother scouting, just assume it's reaper then mine drops or bio mine follow up). The issue is getting forced into a very specific tech path far too early. Even late mines aren't that big of an issue. It's specifically the mine timing drops.

If Terran doesn't mine drop most of the time I just roll over them with mass gateway units and good Warp Prism usage so I'm fariy certain it's not me being bad at PvT. It's specifically mines that cause the problem. Especially if there's a reaper scout due to the delayed expansion I have to take.


----------



## Cybertox

Am I the only one who is disappointed that the skin that you get for ordering the digital deluxe version is for some tier 1 unit? Why not a skin for a colossus, carrier, archon or immortal?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Am I the only one who is disappointed that the skin that you get for ordering the digital deluxe version is for some tier 1 unit? Why not a skin for a colossus, carrier, archon or immortal?


Im more disappointed that it's simply a recolor rather than being a new mesh+skin.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Am I the only one who is disappointed that the skin that you get for ordering the digital deluxe version is for some tier 1 unit? Why not a skin for a colossus, carrier, archon or immortal?


What unit is the skin for? I don't see it on the product page.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What unit is the skin for? I don't see it on the product page.


Its for the adept.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If you're unready for a mine drop you lose the game. Mines are that effective vs Protoss. Lets say you're not ready for a mine drop, you don't have a robo up at all. Mines deny huge amounts of mining time which in turn allows things like a stim timing to utterly decimate the Protoss who can't even fight back now due to that lost mining time. I'm referencing HotS because I don't know LotV timings but I imagine they've vastly different due to the economy. I can't comment on that without looking like an idiot.
> 
> Oracles are fairly low skill ceiling units, I won't bother denying that but it's irrelavent because of the tech trees. In HotS does it hurt to get a fast engi bay? Not really. In HotS does it hurt to get a gate, a cyber core then a Stalker and/or MSC and then a robo at the same time as expanding? Most definitely and Protoss are forced into that every game due to mines. If you don't then a terran who uses mines will destroy you. But if they don't you're so far behind on income you'll be fighting uphill.
> 
> Best part is if the terran knows how to wall, you will never know the mine is coming because you can't scout it until you get observers anyhow.
> 
> Imaine if Oracles forced you into getting a fast Ghost Academy every game, fast ghost cloak every game and then you had to build a nuke. All while trying to expand and maintain your income+a skeleton protection force for any early agression. That's what mines do to Protoss in HotS and it's why I'm vocal on the subject.
> 
> I'm no slouch when it comes to PvT, I can beat low masters (I've even beaten a few Korean mid masters) and I have a very difficult time vs mines. I know how to beat them and I can easily implement the strategy needed to beat them (don't even bother scouting, just assume it's reaper then mine drops or bio mine follow up). The issue is getting forced into a very specific tech path far too early. Even late mines aren't that big of an issue. It's specifically the mine timing drops.
> 
> If Terran doesn't mine drop most of the time I just roll over them with mass gateway units and good Warp Prism usage so I'm fariy certain it's not me being bad at PvT. It's specifically mines that cause the problem. Especially if there's a reaper scout due to the delayed expansion I have to take.


The mine is still just less effective, and I'm not saying it can't be effective, but it's just not oracle territory. Terran already does get forced into turrets or leaving an entire huge marine army behind, it's no different than Protoss being forced into a light amount of defense for a mine drop. But as I said with a mine drop there is potential to reduce its effectiveness to nearly nothing even with a few units that aren't a hard counter to the mine, while it buys you time to get the observers you need. Typically Protoss should have a second base, so even if one is slightly shut down (I say slightly because they can typically still mine from part of it), they should be mining at a second base.

As far as you being able to beat low masters with your PvT, after watching you play I highly doubt it.









Also I've never been pro mine. I like that it forces tough micro on Zerg/Protoss, because we've been dealing with that kind of micro for ages. I don't like that it causes issues with detection being required however. Still, it's not oracle territory IMO.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> The mine is still just less effective, and I'm not saying it can't be effective, but it's just not oracle territory. Terran already does get forced into turrets or leaving an entire huge marine army behind, it's no different than Protoss being forced into a light amount of defense for a mine drop. But as I said with a mine drop there is potential to reduce its effectiveness to nearly nothing even with a few units that aren't a hard counter to the mine, while it buys you time to get the observers you need. Typically Protoss should have a second base, so even if one is slightly shut down (I say slightly because they can typically still mine from part of it), they should be mining at a second base.
> 
> As far as you being able to beat low masters with your PvT, after watching you play I highly doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I've never been pro mine. I like that it forces tough micro on Zerg/Protoss, because we've been dealing with that kind of micro for ages. I don't like that it causes issues with detection being required however. Still, it's not oracle territory IMO.


Ugh. So let me get this straight. You think that a flying single target, extremely low health unit that gets zoned out by a single turret+repair is less effective than an invisible unit that has +damage to shields, frequently kills a plethora of units with a single shot and has a stretchy leash range?

That's blatant bias. I've stated why it's bias. I've explicity outlined why you're wrong and highlighted the various interactions which cause this problem. You're ingoring those points and harping on about how Oracles are better which is besides the point but I entertained you anyhow and showed you why they aren't better.

You want proof after we lost all our old replays due to a format change? lol. I was #1 daimond vs low masters at the end of HotS beta, I don't care if you believe me or not.

Again with your blatant bias. Frankly, I don't care that you think that. You don't support your points. Therefore if anyone's word is going to be taken it's the guy who actually outlines the scenarios and shows why his opinion is right.

If you actually have a point to make instead of this wishy washy "I feel this way" nonsense feel free to pipe in. Until then, keep the bias to yourself. I shouldn't have to be this direct, basically calling you out on not supporting your opinions.

For Christ's sake you tried to prove your point of mines not being overpowered in PvT using a TvT scenario...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Ugh. So let me get this straight. You think that a flying single target, extremely low health unit that gets zoned out by a single turret+repair is less effective than an invisible unit that has +damage to shields, frequently kills a plethora of units with a single shot and has a stretchy leash range?
> 
> That's blatant bias. I've stated why it's bias. I've explicity outlined why you're wrong and highlighted the various interactions which cause this problem. You're ingoring those points and harping on about how Oracles are better which is besides the point but I entertained you anyhow and showed you why they aren't better.
> 
> You want proof after we lost all our old replays due to a format change? lol. I was #1 daimond vs low masters at the end of HotS beta, I don't care if you believe me or not.
> 
> Again with your blatant bias. Frankly, I don't care that you think that. You don't support your points. Therefore if anyone's word is going to be taken it's the guy who actually outlines the scenarios and shows why his opinion is right.
> 
> If you actually have a point to make instead of this wishy washy "I feel this way" nonsense feel free to pipe in. Until then, keep the bias to yourself. I shouldn't have to be this direct, basically calling you out on not supporting your opinions.
> 
> For Christ's sake you tried to prove your point of mines not being overpowered in PvT using a TvT scenario...


First off, I'm talking about mines vs Oracles in general, I never implied otherwise. That means using TvT as an example works perfectly fine, since I think over all oracles are the most ridiculous worker harrass unit in the entire game over all in every match up, not just PvT. Nothing we said can be proven, there is no factual evidence behind anything either of us has said, so we both make our decisions or opinions on the matters based on our own play and what we see in pro games. I think mines are definitely best vs protoss, but I think oracles are even better vs Terran on the flip side (for worker harrass). As I've stated it's my opinion based on playing and what I see at the highest level, that's basically all I or you can offer, unless we really break it down by analyzing every single VOD and providing statistical analysis of the amount of damage each of them do. Since we both are not going to do that, we can only argue our personal opinions and observations. You weren't arguing any more factual than I was. I didn't feel you supported your points at all either, but it is what it is.

And yeah I don't believe you are Diamond level, I've watched you play, and I see no way that you were ever beating masters players unless it was really abusing some broken crap during HotS beta. How about instead of saying you could beat X because of something you did in HotS beta you tell us where you currently are skill level wise.

That and you fully admit that you play non-traditional Protoss style, so maybe it is you just having this major issue with mines.

TLR I do think mines are a more powerful over all unit than Oracles, I'm ONLY talking about openings so it's not like I'm being super biased. I can admit where they are better.

Naniwa "Oracles are so fast its completely stupid".


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> First off, I'm talking about mines vs Oracles in general, I never implied otherwise. That means using TvT as an example works perfectly fine, since I think over all oracles are the most ridiculous worker harrass unit in the entire game over all in every match up, not just PvT. Nothing we said can be proven, there is no factual evidence behind anything either of us has said, so we both make our decisions or opinions on the matters based on our own play and what we see in pro games. I think mines are definitely best vs protoss, but I think oracles are even better vs Terran on the flip side (for worker harrass). As I've stated it's my opinion based on playing and what I see at the highest level, that's basically all I or you can offer, unless we really break it down by analyzing every single VOD and providing statistical analysis of the amount of damage each of them do. Since we both are not going to do that, we can only argue our personal opinions and observations. You weren't arguing any more factual than I was. I didn't feel you supported your points at all either, but it is what it is.
> 
> And yeah I don't believe you are Diamond level, I've watched you play, and I see no way that you were ever beating masters players unless it was really abusing some broken crap during HotS beta. How about instead of saying you could beat X because of something you did in HotS beta you tell us where you currently are skill level wise.
> 
> That and you fully admit that you play non-traditional Protoss style, so maybe it is you just having this major issue with mines.
> 
> TLR I do think mines are a more powerful over all unit than Oracles, I'm ONLY talking about openings so it's not like I'm being super biased. I can admit where they are better.
> 
> Naniwa "Oracles are so fast its completely stupid".


If the context is PvT then why bring it up in general? That changes my tune a bit. In general, if we ignore that dumb + shields damage I completely agree. Zerg get annoyed by it (can't 1-a ling swarms and go do something else for a sec) and in TvT the extra scv health makes mines...well you're better off getting tanks for most situations xD. On a broad sense, not accounting for a specific mathcup I do agree that thee Oracle is comparatively better. It's only when factoring in PvT that I think mines end up as the better harass unit. That's a multi stage problem, it's not entirely the mine's fault. It's just as much Protoss lacking decent, mobile detect from anything but robo which is just too expensive to get vs a good terran who will stuff a reaper down your throat, then mines and folow up with a stim timing. Aa singular event in that chain means the mine loses a lot of it's power. It's the snowballing effect of making Protoss get ssuper expensive tech paths far, far too early that hurts because Protoss is expensive and have to massively hurt their economy to properly deal with rushed mine drops or even pre-stim bio mine with the stim timing right around the corner.

I also play standard, I just prefer to not play traditionally. 1 gate 1 robo expand is pretty standard - and it's not safe what so ever unless the terran is not very aggressive in the early game. Stargate play gets blind countered every game, I'm currently trying to experiment with using Oracles as detect and going for chargelot oracle to control the early game. It's not much better. Oracles don't find damage in HotS if the terran prepares for it and has good reactions.

Doubt all you want. https://youtu.be/psAp20bv4Jg

You know why this game is a good case? Because it's full of perfect calls, baits, splits, pressure and saves. These are all things even the best Protoss players don't consistently do. When's the last time you saw protoss deliberately split their army in half, let seekers hit but not hit hard enough to kill the army (losing 1 zealot to double seeker), bait the opponent massively out of position and attack their base, meeting them head on with archons+a chargelot wrap and storms just as stim runs out? You rarely see that kind of stuff in daimond, that's masters territory. If you disagree feel free to give me a link to a Protoss low level game that's comparable. I doubt you'll find one though.

Worst thing I abused in beta was blink all-in and that wasn't exactly nasty except vs terran players who had no clue that marauders+1 turret shut that play down, bar a really, really bad map like korhol city (too much ledge to protect).

Mines are only really powerful openings vs Protoss in HotS because they have that dumb +shield damage and becasue Protoss detect is pretty freaking bad if it doesn't come from the robo. I pretty much agree with you if we aren't talking about PvT reaper-mine-stim timing.

Oh I found out why terrans keep doing Reaper FE into a mine drop then stim timing: ForGG does this and utterly wrecks his Protoss opponents with it, it severely punishes stargate and templar openings while making robo openings pretty sub optimal due to the good economy Terran get off of it (similar to WoL 1rax FE).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Doubt all you want. https://youtu.be/psAp20bv4Jg


The money that is being floated in that game on two bases is not Diamond play. I am sorry.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The money that is being floated in that game on two bases is not Diamond play. I am sorry.


As Protoss you need to do that if you have that many warp gates. Otherwise how do you afford the warp ins?

Lets do the math here.

12 Warp Gates.

Stalker mineral cost: 125
Zealot mineral cost: 100
Dark Templar mineral cost: 125

125x12=1500
100x12=1200

So my 1k-2k mineral bank (2k only at the very end of the game) means I get 1 round of warp ins before I'm broke again.

Warp ins require a bank or the Warp Gates are dead weight, having a mineral bank to support that is imparative. Otherwise how do you fight your opponent? The point I'm making is that different races are different and much like zerg's batch building of units that requires a bank, mass warp gates requires one too.

It was also 3 bases, not 2 and that was for both players.

I can tell you don't play Protoss - or at least play them well.







My guess is you main terran where not having a bank is a good thing due to how their production works.


----------



## biz1

just because you can use APM and bait mines doesn't mean that mines are ineffective at lower levels of play

where blizzard went wrong with sc2 is really that a RTS of that insane pace needs units that just move and shoot on their own without requiring human intervention
without lowering the game speed, the game just feels wrong for casual play even if it's "cooler" to watch


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> just because you can use APM and bait mines doesn't mean that mines are ineffective at lower levels of play
> 
> where blizzard went wrong with sc2 is really that a RTS of that insane pace needs units that just move and shoot on their own without requiring human intervention
> without lowering the game speed, the game just feels wrong for casual play even if it's "cooler" to watch


Here's a question: not that I'm serious about suggesting it: Do you think that all units being height sensative and requiring a clear line of sight to attack would help with that?

So for example A roach could still shoot over a zergling but Roaches wouldn't be shooting over Ultralisks. Marines couldn't fire if there were marines infront of that marine, etc, etc.

It would basically remove deathball play except from very, very predictable unit compositions so there'd be less break neck pacing in large scale battles because large scale battles would be inefficient use of units.

Probably belongs in a different game but I've always wondered if forcing smaller scale battles would help stem some of the crazy "terrible, terrible damage" which makes sc2 so brutal and unforgiving.


----------



## biz1

smaller scale battles are definitely what a game of this pace should be about

there are different ways to achieve that though. it's way too subjective to really go through all of them though

i just hate the massive blobs of units. it requires hotkeying all your units in advance of battles because selecting an individual one or an individual group is kind of impossible at the game's speed
i'm not the kind of player who cares enough about starcraft to use 9 hotkeys. i'll use 3 or 4, and usually want to spend most of those on production facilities instead of units that will just die

the game feels fine when you have 8 marines and a tank or two and a medivac
the game feels fine when there are 10 zerglings, 5 roaches, and 5 banelings

the game does not feel fine when there are 30 zerglings, 10 hydras, 20 mutalisks, 3 vipiers, 2 infestors, 4 queens in a blob and I have to pull off some insane combination of active abilities, manually target different enemies with different units, all while splitting and dodging AOE, and that's still 50 supply less than the biggest armies


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> The money that is being floated in that game on two bases is not Diamond play. I am sorry.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If the context is PvT then why bring it up in general? That changes my tune a bit. In general, if we ignore that dumb + shields damage I completely agree. Zerg get annoyed by it (can't 1-a ling swarms and go do something else for a sec) and in TvT the extra scv health makes mines...well you're better off getting tanks for most situations xD. On a broad sense, not accounting for a specific mathcup I do agree that thee Oracle is comparatively better. It's only when factoring in PvT that I think mines end up as the better harass unit. That's a multi stage problem, it's not entirely the mine's fault. It's just as much Protoss lacking decent, mobile detect from anything but robo which is just too expensive to get vs a good terran who will stuff a reaper down your throat, then mines and folow up with a stim timing. Aa singular event in that chain means the mine loses a lot of it's power. It's the snowballing effect of making Protoss get ssuper expensive tech paths far, far too early that hurts because Protoss is expensive and have to massively hurt their economy to properly deal with rushed mine drops or even pre-stim bio mine with the stim timing right around the corner.
> 
> I also play standard, I just prefer to not play traditionally. 1 gate 1 robo expand is pretty standard - and it's not safe what so ever unless the terran is not very aggressive in the early game. Stargate play gets blind countered every game, I'm currently trying to experiment with using Oracles as detect and going for chargelot oracle to control the early game. It's not much better. Oracles don't find damage in HotS if the terran prepares for it and has good reactions.
> 
> Doubt all you want. https://youtu.be/psAp20bv4Jg
> 
> You know why this game is a good case? Because it's full of perfect calls, baits, splits, pressure and saves. These are all things even the best Protoss players don't consistently do. When's the last time you saw protoss deliberately split their army in half, let seekers hit but not hit hard enough to kill the army (losing 1 zealot to double seeker), bait the opponent massively out of position and attack their base, meeting them head on with archons+a chargelot wrap and storms just as stim runs out? You rarely see that kind of stuff in daimond, that's masters territory. If you disagree feel free to give me a link to a Protoss low level game that's comparable. I doubt you'll find one though.


Before I even read Anti!'s post I was already watching this replay and thinking, holy crap are you floating your money. I watch high level Protoss players and they do not float money like you do. You didn't just float it for a little while, you floated it nearly all game. Even if you think your unit control and decisions are on par with Diamond players your macro and APM are not. You had all that money and you didn't even invest in forges for upgrades? Chrono was barely used even before the late game outside a few exceptions. There is nothing about this that convinces me you are anywhere near Diamond level, and it's even less convincing when I see you stream live without a sped up replay since it more accurately shows your pacing.

And look, I'm really not trying to be mean or judgmental but when you say things like you can beat masters and everything I see leads me to believe other wise I'm going to call you out on it. I'm not saying your incompetent or anything like that, you know a lot of stuff and you can paper craft pretty well but I wouldn't put you at Diamond level in terms of play. If you want to disprove that accusation let's see you do it, this VOD is vs a Silver player and proves nothing.


----------



## ronnin426850




----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Looks like the one above has been already roasted by a Firebat.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> This.
> Before I even read Anti!'s post I was already watching this replay and thinking, holy crap are you floating your money. I watch high level Protoss players and they do not float money like you do. You didn't just float it for a little while, you floated it nearly all game. Even if you think your unit control and decisions are on par with Diamond players your macro and APM are not. You had all that money and you didn't even invest in forges for upgrades? Chrono was barely used even before the late game outside a few exceptions. There is nothing about this that convinces me you are anywhere near Diamond level, and it's even less convincing when I see you stream live without a sped up replay since it more accurately shows your pacing.
> 
> And look, I'm really not trying to be mean or judgmental but when you say things like you can beat masters and everything I see leads me to believe other wise I'm going to call you out on it. I'm not saying your incompetent or anything like that, you know a lot of stuff and you can paper craft pretty well but I wouldn't put you at Diamond level in terms of play. If you want to disprove that accusation let's see you do it, this VOD is vs a Silver player and proves nothing.


Agreed, Not trying to be mean either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> As Protoss you need to do that if you have that many warp gates. Otherwise how do you afford the warp ins?
> 
> Lets do the math here.
> 
> 12 Warp Gates.
> 
> Stalker mineral cost: 125
> Zealot mineral cost: 100
> Dark Templar mineral cost: 125
> 
> 125x12=1500
> 100x12=1200
> 
> So my 1k-2k mineral bank (2k only at the very end of the game) means I get 1 round of warp ins before I'm broke again.
> 
> Warp ins require a bank or the Warp Gates are dead weight, having a mineral bank to support that is imparative. Otherwise how do you fight your opponent? The point I'm making is that different races are different and much like zerg's batch building of units that requires a bank, mass warp gates requires one too.
> 
> It was also 3 bases, not 2 and that was for both players.
> 
> I can tell you don't play Protoss - or at least play them well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is you main terran where not having a bank is a good thing due to how their production works.


You play on Europe right? Doom, I'll be on about 6pm to 10pm CST. That is UTC -6 for you international peeps







.
DIY, what time will that be for you? Any of you wanna play king of the hill on Europe? HoTs that is. (You can make an exception Doom, right?)

I am probably gold, but after some warming up I may be worth playing.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Agreed, Not trying to be mean either.
> You play on Europe right? Doom, I'll be on about 6pm to 10pm CST. That is UTC -6 for you international peeps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> DIY, what time will that be for you? Any of you wanna play king of the hill on Europe? HoTs that is. (You can make an exception Doom, right?)
> 
> I am probably gold, but after some warming up I may be worth playing.


That would be worth watching, please post the replays, or even better - stream if you can


----------



## Cybertox

DIYDeath vs Doom Dash?


----------



## Pandora51

me wants to spectate


----------



## tristanbear

Just started playing and I'm loving it so far.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Agreed, Not trying to be mean either.
> You play on Europe right? Doom, I'll be on about 6pm to 10pm CST. That is UTC -6 for you international peeps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> DIY, what time will that be for you? Any of you wanna play king of the hill on Europe? HoTs that is. (You can make an exception Doom, right?)
> 
> I am probably gold, but after some warming up I may be worth playing.


I'm NA. Just had a 24 hour sc2 binge session so I'm a little played out today. Maybe tomorrow?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> DIYDeath vs Doom Dash?


That sounds like a difficult game. based on what Doom is saying he's probably a little better than I am. Him not being as well versed in HotS might even it up though. I'd still put my money on him 7/10 times.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> This.
> Before I even read Anti!'s post I was already watching this replay and thinking, holy crap are you floating your money. I watch high level Protoss players and they do not float money like you do. You didn't just float it for a little while, you floated it nearly all game. Even if you think your unit control and decisions are on par with Diamond players your macro and APM are not. You had all that money and you didn't even invest in forges for upgrades? Chrono was barely used even before the late game outside a few exceptions. There is nothing about this that convinces me you are anywhere near Diamond level, and it's even less convincing when I see you stream live without a sped up replay since it more accurately shows your pacing.
> 
> And look, I'm really not trying to be mean or judgmental but when you say things like you can beat masters and everything I see leads me to believe other wise I'm going to call you out on it. I'm not saying your incompetent or anything like that, you know a lot of stuff and you can paper craft pretty well but I wouldn't put you at Diamond level in terms of play. If you want to disprove that accusation let's see you do it, this VOD is vs a Silver player and proves nothing.


I'm going to be really honest with you here. You're blatantly wrong about several things here. Blatantly.

1) You're not understanding the basic functions of how Warp Gates work. Have you ever played zerg? Ever try functioning with no bank as zerg? Kinda hard because you don't have the resources to batch build units. That's how Warp Gates work. I know you're trying to think of the Warp Gate as a barracks. It isn't. Warp Gates work like zerg production if you mass them. They do not act like terran production.
2) You keep saying it's a vid vs a silver player. It's not. It was vs unranked.
3) You think apm means something. Eapm means something. apm means how many times you can spam a control group. I reach 80-100 apm without control group spams. That's more than adequate for Protoss.
4) You think I didn't use chrono boost consistently. That's not even remotely true. Chronoboosts were used on upgrades all the way up until storm+a few chronos on probe production.
5) You think I floated that 2k all game. Most of the time that bank was 1k, it only went to 2k at the end game and just before I plopped down 5 additional gameways+several additional pylons. And again, you're not grasping the concept of batch building units so while that might seem crazy to you, it's not. What's crazy is having production and not enough resources to use it properly. Which is what not having a mineral bank does to mass gateway play. To frame that in a terran context: wouldn't it be stupid to have 7 tech lab factories trying to pump thors without a gas bank to do it?

I paper craft well because I know what I'm talking about. You can doubt my league all you want, with the consant corrections I keep having to make I'm doubting you're daimond level. What league is your highest in HotS and what time period did you achieve it in?

Perhaps it's best you just focus on terran. I can't speak on your zerg knowledge but your protoss knowledge is barely functional within context of HotS. I'm sure you know your LotV stuff well.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches

Found you on bnet. Considering your nearly complete lack of activity in HotS (1 game since january)...yeah. Now things are starting to make more sense. I'm not calling you bad or anything. I'm just saying that perhaps you don't know much about HotS.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm going to be really honest with you here. You're blatantly wrong about several things here. Blatantly.
> 
> 1) You're not understanding the basic functions of how Warp Gates work. Have you ever played zerg? Ever try functioning with no bank as zerg? Kinda hard because you don't have the resources to batch build units. That's how Warp Gates work. I know you're trying to think of the Warp Gate as a barracks. It isn't. Warp Gates work like zerg production if you mass them. They do not act like terran production.
> 2) You keep saying it's a vid vs a silver player. It's not. It was vs unranked.
> 3) You think apm means something. Eapm means something. apm means how many times you can spam a control group. I reach 80-100 apm without control group spams. That's more than adequate for Protoss.
> 4) You think I didn't use chrono boost consistently. That's not even remotely true. Chronoboosts were used on upgrades all the way up until storm+a few chronos on probe production.
> 5) You think I floated that 2k all game. Most of the time that bank was 1k, it only went to 2k at the end game and just before I plopped down 5 additional gameways+several additional pylons. And again, you're not grasping the concept of batch building units so while that might seem crazy to you, it's not. What's crazy is having production and not enough resources to use it properly. Which is what not having a mineral bank does to mass gateway play. To frame that in a terran context: wouldn't it be stupid to have 7 tech lab factories trying to pump thors without a gas bank to do it?
> 
> I paper craft well because I know what I'm talking about. *You can doubt my league all you want, with the consant corrections I keep having to make I'm doubting you're daimond level. What league is your highest in HotS and what time period did you achieve it in?*
> 
> Perhaps it's best you just focus on terran. I can't speak on your zerg knowledge but your protoss knowledge is barely functional within context of HotS. I'm sure you know your LotV stuff well.
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches
> 
> Found you on bnet. Considering your nearly complete lack of activity in HotS (1 game since january)...yeah. Now things are starting to make more sense. I'm not calling you bad or anything. I'm just saying that perhaps you don't know much about HotS.


Masters league for seasons 1-3 in HotS, stopped playing after that. Basically every time I've played the game I've been masters league without a sweat, anyone here for awhile can back that up. Wings of Liberty top 1% of all players, top 400 average~.

Yes I've played Zerg, yes I've played Protoss, and you're wrong about that bank, at least the amount and the timing of it. Seriously you need to rewatch your own game because that wasn't just for warp cycles, you're kidding yourself. That Terran player was Silver. Watch the replay.. maybe you or he was playing unranked at the time, but his league preview said silver, and I remember watching your stream and everyone you played was silver/bronze/gold. You were seriously losing to Bronze players occasionally. That and I don't need to see his league to know he was an awful low leaguer. Look at his wall.... no Terran above silver would build a wall like that. No Terran would go random ravens for seeker missiles against Protoss. He is either a low leaguer or he was just trolling you.

Also your profile said you reached platinum highest, mine says 10x master.... so stop trying to kid yourself.

You aren't correcting anything, you're just disagreeing, and you're wrong. Sorry but you are not playing your race well. Unless you're aware of how to play protoss and the other high level Protoss players aren't aware of having that huge bank all game and not upgrading their units all game.

I haven't played HotS since January, yeah, but I had figured it out at master level before, and I watch pro level HotS all the time, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

Also I hate that I have to criticize you like this, because I feel like no one should have to worry about somebody making someone feel bad because they watched their stream and threw in their unwanted 2 cents. The only reason I said anything is because of the claims you make about your skill level plain and simple. Instead of paper crafting it go play HotS and get Diamond.


----------



## SirWaWa

loving the 64 bit client but ambient occlusion doesn't work
driver issue?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I'm going to be really honest with you here. You're blatantly wrong about several things here. Blatantly.
> 
> 1) You're not understanding the basic functions of how Warp Gates work. Have you ever played zerg? Ever try functioning with no bank as zerg? Kinda hard because you don't have the resources to batch build units. That's how Warp Gates work. I know you're trying to think of the Warp Gate as a barracks. It isn't. Warp Gates work like zerg production if you mass them. They do not act like terran production.
> 2) You keep saying it's a vid vs a silver player. It's not. It was vs unranked.
> 3) You think apm means something. Eapm means something. apm means how many times you can spam a control group. I reach 80-100 apm without control group spams. That's more than adequate for Protoss.
> 4) You think I didn't use chrono boost consistently. That's not even remotely true. Chronoboosts were used on upgrades all the way up until storm+a few chronos on probe production.
> 5) You think I floated that 2k all game. Most of the time that bank was 1k, it only went to 2k at the end game and just before I plopped down 5 additional gameways+several additional pylons. And again, you're not grasping the concept of batch building units so while that might seem crazy to you, it's not. What's crazy is having production and not enough resources to use it properly. Which is what not having a mineral bank does to mass gateway play. To frame that in a terran context: wouldn't it be stupid to have 7 tech lab factories trying to pump thors without a gas bank to do it?
> 
> I paper craft well because I know what I'm talking about. You can doubt my league all you want, with the consant corrections I keep having to make I'm doubting you're daimond level. What league is your highest in HotS and what time period did you achieve it in?
> 
> Perhaps it's best you just focus on terran. I can't speak on your zerg knowledge but your protoss knowledge is barely functional within context of HotS. I'm sure you know your LotV stuff well.
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/matches
> 
> Found you on bnet. Considering your nearly complete lack of activity in HotS (1 game since january)...yeah. Now things are starting to make more sense. I'm not calling you bad or anything. I'm just saying that perhaps you don't know much about HotS.


He has been masters at least 5 times. I can attest to him playing HoTS religiously at one point. Also, the warp mechanic has not changed from WoL to HoTS warranting a bank any different than it did the whole time SC2 has been out. I don't think Doom playing LoTV hurts his understanding of floating money and warp ins.

Also, I kinda see where you are coming from, but the issue is we see things as ex-diamond/masters players happening that never happened in any replays or stream I have watched. The only time I saw Toss float 1.5k mins is well after their 3rd is completed and they were maxed. THEN they were saving for the remax of the right counter. If they had no supply they were sending units to my expos to kill/use the units.

Take that terran you faced for example. He was just floating his CC down to his 3rd, had 2k mins in the bank and barely 24 rines and marauders. In the games I have played near my peak the terran has 100-300 mineral tops, army is double its size even if I have had successful harass, and they are dropping me at the same time. When they hit 4th base and are basically maxed, then yea, they were floating money and preparing for a major tech switch.

Lastly, you said that was unranked, but the guy had a silver portrait.

As for the king of the hill bit. I was hoping it would be tonight. I had the house to myself tonight.







It also wasn't just doom vs diy. I wanted to play king of the hill which winner stays up. Even though Doom has been playing LoTV I am sure he can still stay on top of the hill more than he is on the bottom of it. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> As for the king of the hill bit. I was hoping it would be tonight. I had the house to myself tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also wasn't just doom vs diy. I wanted to play king of the hill which winner stays up. Even though Doom has been playing LoTV I am sure he can still stay on top of the hill more than he is on the bottom of it. lol


I really have no interest in playing HotS anymore. I got my sights on LotV and that's it, I only played that 1 game a few months back of HotS to get a portrait.

Also I wanted to add that I played mech in all match ups in HotS, including TvP, which was completely non-traditional, and even doing that I was masters. This was long before the swarm host nerf and mech OP days too.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I really have no interest in playing HotS anymore. I got my sights on LotV and that's it, I only played that 1 game a few months back of HotS to get a portrait.
> 
> Also I wanted to add that I played mech in all match ups in HotS, including TvP, which was completely non-traditional, and even doing that I was masters. This was long before the swarm host nerf and mech OP days too.


Forget that it is HoTS. It is king of the hill with others. Take a break from this droning 1v1 all the time. lol That way you can chat with people, spectate games like the BW days.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Forget that it is HoTS. It is king of the hill with others. Take a break from this droning 1v1 all the time. lol That way you can chat with people, spectate games like the BW days.


We can do that in LotV







.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Masters league for seasons 1-3 in HotS, stopped playing after that. Basically every time I've played the game I've been masters league without a sweat, anyone here for awhile can back that up. Wings of Liberty top 1% of all players, top 400 average~.
> 
> Yes I've played Zerg, yes I've played Protoss, and you're wrong about that bank, at least the amount and the timing of it. Seriously you need to rewatch your own game because that wasn't just for warp cycles, you're kidding yourself. That Terran player was Silver. Watch the replay.. maybe you or he was playing unranked at the time, but his league preview said silver, and I remember watching your stream and everyone you played was silver/bronze/gold. You were seriously losing to Bronze players occasionally. That and I don't need to see his league to know he was an awful low leaguer. Look at his wall.... no Terran above silver would build a wall like that. No Terran would go random ravens for seeker missiles against Protoss. He is either a low leaguer or he was just trolling you.
> 
> Also your profile said you reached platinum highest, mine says 10x master.... so stop trying to kid yourself.
> 
> You aren't correcting anything, you're just disagreeing, and you're wrong. Sorry but you are not playing your race well. Unless you're aware of how to play protoss and the other high level Protoss players aren't aware of having that huge bank all game and not upgrading their units all game.
> 
> I haven't played HotS since January, yeah, but I had figured it out at master level before, and I watch pro level HotS all the time, it's not a hard concept to grasp.
> 
> Also I hate that I have to criticize you like this, because I feel like no one should have to worry about somebody making someone feel bad because they watched their stream and threw in their unwanted 2 cents. The only reason I said anything is because of the claims you make about your skill level plain and simple. Instead of paper crafting it go play HotS and get Diamond.


That's what I thought. Seasons 1-3 had some pretty wonky stuff like Hellbat drops. I sincerely doubt you're masters material now days. WoL=/=HotS. I'm fantastic at Titanfall, doesn't mean ti has any bearing on how good I am at HotS.

So why else did I have a 2k mineral bank with that many gateways then? To twiddle my thumbs? What you're saying isn't even logical. Do I need to walk you through basic math again?

12x125=1500
12=100=1200

2000-1500=500
2000-1200=800

One warp in and I'm almost broke with that many gateways. Only time I looked at my bank and went "whoah, that's not cool" is when it reached 2.5k and I immediately spent 1800 on pylons and gateways so I could mineral dump into chargelots. This happened just before I dropped. Every other time I had an intentional bank because of the warp gates I had.

I don't particularily care what you think about that because you're wrong. No amount of chest puffing will change that. As ex masters you should know better. Warp Gates batch build units. Math is worth more than 1000 of anyone's words in this instance. You've been conistsently wrong to the point where I don't care what your opinion is uness you support your claims. Which you aren't doing.

So prove your point either using logical deduction or math. If you don't then you have no basis for what you believe.

You always go off of current league, not former glories. You're a perfect case of why this is important.

lol. You're calling me wrong without supporting your opinion? That's rich. Look, if you want to play that game go to the battle.net forums. I thought this was a place where we could be reasonably unbiased and present eachother with math and logic to prove a point. Guess I was wrong since you don't do any of that.

You can say I'm not playing my race well as many times as you want. Means nothing coming from someone who doesn't support their claims and has no valid rebuttals when confronted about their "I feel" statements, someone who's trying to ride former glory and use that as "you should trust me becasue I'm good" argument.

Even GMs lose to bronze cheesers. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

Want to know a pro that does well+floats larger banks as Protoss? sOs. Different races are different. If you have mass gateways you need a bank to fuel the warp ins. If you don't have the bank you don't have the means to warp in the units.

If you disagree back up your opinions with logical deduction or math. From now on I'm ingoring all of your opinions that aren't supported because they're not valid by default. I'm more than happy to consider any point you do support though.

I vs everything from bronze all the way up to daimond. Unranked is unranked, you get a nice cross section for every league. One thing you wouldn't know from my match history is I'm not always playing Protoss, I off race for fun.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's what I thought. Seasons 1-3 had some pretty wonky stuff like Hellbat drops. I sincerely doubt you're masters material now days. WoL=/=HotS. I'm fantastic at Titanfall, doesn't mean ti has any bearing on how good I am at HotS.
> 
> So why else did I have a 2k mineral bank with that many gateways then? To twiddle my thumbs? What you're saying isn't even logical. Do I need to walk you through basic math again?
> 
> 12x125=1500
> 12=100=1200
> 
> 2000-1500=500
> 2000-1200=800
> 
> One warp in and I'm almost broke with that many gateways. Only time I looked at my bank and went "whoah, that's not cool" is when it reached 2.5k and I immediately spent 1800 on pylons and gateways so I could mineral dump into chargelots. This happened just before I dropped. Every other time I had an intentional bank because of the warp gates I had.
> 
> I don't particularily care what you think about that because you're wrong. No amount of chest puffing will change that. As ex masters you should know better. Warp Gates batch build units. Math is worth more than 1000 of anyone's words in this instance. You've been conistsently wrong to the point where I don't care what your opinion is uness you support your claims. Which you aren't doing.
> 
> So prove your point either using logical deduction or math. If you don't then you have no basis for what you believe.
> 
> You always go off of current league, not former glories. You're a perfect case example of why this is important.
> 
> lol. You're calling me wrong without supporting your opinion? That's rich. Look, if you want to play that game go to the battle.net forums. I thought this was a place where we could be reasonably unbiased and present eachother with math and logic to prove a point. Guess I was wrong since you don't do any of that.
> 
> You can say I'm not playing my race well as many times as you want. Means nothing coming from someone who doesn't support their claims and has no valid rebuttals when confronted about their "I feel" statements, someone who's trying to ride former glory and use that as "you should trust me becasue I'm good" argument.
> 
> Even GMs lose to bronze cheesers. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.


Blah Blah Blah I have no proof I've ever been Diamond level, Blah Blah Blah.

As far as Hellbat drops go, I never even did hellbat drops, so wanna try again? If you look at the wins I had in January just dabbling in HotS I was already beating the Master league players, nothing changed, in fact it would be EASIER for me to be Masters now that Swarm Hosts were nerfed since that was literally the only major struggle I had. I was never abusing broken metas, period. You have no basis for such silly assumptions. Masters league in HotS? Been there done that... have proof.... unlike you.

So yeah, get Diamond... if you do, consider me impressed.

Have fun thinking you're great showing everyone you beating on Silver leaguers.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Blah Blah Blah I have no proof I've ever been Diamond level, Blah Blah Blah.
> 
> As far as Hellbat drops go, I never even did hellbat drops, so wanna try again? If you look at the wins I had in January just dabbling in HotS I was already beating the Master league players, nothing changed, in fact it would be EASIER for me to be Masters now that Swarm Hosts were nerfed since that was literally the only major struggle I had. I was never abusing broken metas, period. You have no basis for such silly assumptions. Masters league in HotS? Been there done that... have proof.... unlike you.
> 
> So yeah, get Diamond... if you do, consider me impressed.
> 
> Have fun thinking you're great showing everyone you beating on Silver leaguers.


So instead of addressing the merits of the argument you now get defensive, continue to not address the merits of the argument and then try to ride former glory even harder?

What is this? Grade school? If you don't like people being short with you then communicate properly. I'm pointing out aspects of the game and supporting it with logic and math. You're saying "I used to be masters almost a year ago, trust me".

Sorry, that's not how life works. If you were to do this in an acedemic setting you'd be laughed out the building.

You don't have an alt bnet account named daveroid by any chase, do you?

Point is: either support your opinions and be taken seriously or don't and prove that you don't have a basis for your opinion as you can't support said opinion.
I don't have a problem with differeing opinions, I have a problem with a lack of support for your differning opinions - which is unacceptible.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So instead of addressing the merits of the argument you now get defensive, continue to not address the merits of the argument and then try to ride former glory even harder?
> 
> What is this? Grade school? If you don't like people being short with you then communicate properly. I'm pointing out aspects of the game and supporting it with logic and math. You're saying "I used to be masters almost a year ago, trust me".
> 
> Sorry, that's not how life works. If you were to do this in an acedemic setting you'd be laughed out the building.
> 
> You don't have an alt bnet account named daveroid by any chase, do you?
> 
> Point is: either support your opinions and be taken seriously or don't and prove that you don't have a basis for your opinion as you can't support said opinion.
> I don't have a problem with differeing opinions, I have a problem with a lack of support for your differning opinions - which is unacceptible.


I wasn't the one bringing leagues into things, you were by saying you beat Diamonds and Masters. I only defended the fact that I was masters whenever I was active (which you try and discredit anyway). I already explained that pro Protoss players don't bank like you, or wait for 12 stalkers at once (since that's very bad for warp gate cycles). Also for all the crap you addressed, you never addressed your lack of upgrades, and although you say your chrono's were on spot your replay shows multipule nexuses at full chrono (which should have been used on the forges you forgot to make). Upgrades in PvT vs Bio are huge, you can't tell me you couldn't afford it, and you can't tell me you didn't think it was important. I never implied once you should have a LOW bank, I said you're bank was too high. Warping in 12 stalkers at a time early game is not how most pros are playing unless its all in (which you were not doing). What you should have been doing in that game was getting more ahead, you should have expanded faster, and you should have been upgrading. You did have the map control especially when you were poking at his awful low leaguer wall.

But anyway, I really don't care to get into the specifics, my main issue with you is that you claim to be on a certain level and you have no proof to back it up. I do think I'm only high Diamond league in LotV, that's it. Do I think I could get Masters in HotS right now? Probably... but hey it's just a guess, certainly with more foundation than you guessing I couldn't get back into masters right now since I do have a history of always being in it (regardless of meta). If you want replays of me beating Grand Masters and Masters players in LotV, I can send you double digits of those.

I just want to see is you with that Diamond league status.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> As Protoss you need to do that if you have that many warp gates. Otherwise how do you afford the warp ins?
> 
> Lets do the math here.
> 
> 12 Warp Gates.
> 
> Stalker mineral cost: 125
> Zealot mineral cost: 100
> Dark Templar mineral cost: 125
> 
> 125x12=1500
> 100x12=1200


Let's see:


You have SIX gateways. Why do you need 1900-2000 minerals and 550+ gas if you are on warp gate cooldown and only have six gateways? Watch a little more, and again you do another warp gate cycle @ 1900 1100~ AFTER a warp gate cycle. 2000 900 after next warp gate cycle. Finally you add more gateways but still with a bank you won't be able to actually spend for a long time. Why not Forge/Nexus? Never did you ever get close to spending your bank, which means you should have been upgrading and expanding more. Only a few times did you get really low on gas (but because of the slow expanding with a huge bank of minerals).

Also when you're pushing his base you're not continuing to get ahead, you do no base management, no upgrades, no expanding, and you neglect your warp gates for a lot longer than any C/D cycles are active.

Near or damn near full chrono at almost every point in the game. This should be dedicated for upgrades and warp gates (since you didn't get additional tech anyway). If you expand properly, upgrade properly, and use warp gates correctly your Nexus energy should be much much lower until the very late game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I wasn't the one bringing leagues into things, you were by saying you beat Diamonds and Masters. I only defended the fact that I was masters whenever I was active (which you try and discredit anyway).


You can't possibly believe that your experience as masters for over a year ago means you're still that good in a game you don't play. I called it former glories for a reason. Ride your current feats, not your past ones. Real life example: when I was 18 I could bench 220 lbs. Doesn't mean I can do it now.
Quote:


> I already explained that pro Protoss players don't bank like you, or wait for 12 stalkers at once (since that's very bad for warp gate cycles).


Not relavent, I had a reason and I've used math to show why it's a valid reason. Either address the point properly or drop it, math is more credible than your words. You're arguing with numbers. This isn't opinion, I've proved my point. You have yet to refute it with anything other than "trust me, I used to be masters".
Quote:


> Also for all the crap you addressed, you never addressed your lack of upgrades,


My gas income went into storms, dt and archons. The ups weren't needed because I had 8 storms and archons. You sacrifice certain things to gain an edge in another way. This is a fundamental pillar of understanding how Protoss work as a race. I didn't address it because you don't know how to play Protoss on a fundamental level. The subltey of the race completely escapes you.
Quote:


> and although you say your chrono's were on spot your replay shows multipule nexuses at full chrono (which should have been used on the forges you forgot to make). Upgrades in PvT vs Bio are huge, you can't tell me you couldn't afford it, and you can't tell me you didn't think it was important.


It wasn't important, lol. Splash damage was important, he had a bio pack and was seeker spaming, I needed feeback, storms, chargelots and archons. My landslide victory proves it wasn't important due to the massive amounts of splash damage I fielded. I was chronoing probes out non-stop, I chrono'd the ups I did get non-stop. Prioritizing battles over chronoboosting was the right decision as well, it scored me early game control and did massive damage with a DT drop/saved DTs to be turned nto Archons.
Quote:


> I never implied once you should have a LOW bank, I said you're bank was too high. Warping in 12 stalkers at a time early game is not how most pros are playing unless its all in (which you were not doing). What you should have been doing in that game was getting more ahead, you should have expanded faster, and you should have been upgrading. You did have the map control especially when you were poking at his awful low leaguer wall.


Too high is subjective to the production facilities you have. It's not a magical arbitrary number. It's a relationship with a few different variables such as how many bases you have, your ballpark income rate, how much production you have, what you currently have on the field and what the opponent has for units. You're over simplifying this to a huge extreme.

I
Quote:


> But anyway, I really don't care to get into the specifics, my main issue with you is that you claim to be on a certain level and you have no proof to back it up. I do think I'm only high Diamond league in LotV, that's it. Do I think I could get Masters in HotS right now? Probably... but hey it's just a guess, certainly with more foundation than you guessing I couldn't get back into masters right now since I do have a history of always being in it (regardless of meta). If you want replays of me beating Grand Masters and Masters players in LotV, I can send you double digits of those.


Again with the riding former glories. At least now you're trying to downplay it. I'm not arguing with you on my skill level for two reason. 1) you have no concept of how protoss work as a race. You keep proving it every time you type some silly opinion that doesn't account for the variables in play. 2) I don't care what level of play you think I'm at. You don't even play HotS, you don't support your opinions, you don't account for all the variables in the bare bones opinions you do post and then you use fallacies to justify your opinions instead of anything that's concrete, like numbners or even logical progression.

I don't doubt your skill @ LotV. That's not in question. I'm questioning your past experiences meaning that you're just as good then as you are now in a game you don't even play anymore. I'm questioning your understanding of Protoss as a race in HotS because you can't even account for all the variables which are relavent to a situation and thus have incomplete or factually wrong opinions, which Ive demonstrated with math.
Quote:


> I just want to see is you with that Diamond league status.


And I'd like to see you stop using that stupid "trust me, I used to be masters a year ago" fallacy. Some things were just never meant to be.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You can't possibly believe that your experience as masters for over a year ago means you're still that good in a game you don't play. I called it former glories for a reason. Ride your current feats, not your past ones. Real life example: when I was 18 I could bench 220 lbs. Doesn't mean I can do it now.
> *I've quit SC2 2 times for about a year, masters first try every season. Did it take me a few hundred matches sometimes? Yep. Has it always been obtainable regardless? Yep. You lose a lot of the speed, you don't lose the understanding of the game (which I always understood at masters level). Also, I've quit Tekken for years many times, and still come back to top 4 in the state every time I come back. No reason to assume other wise when I've literally never been able to not get back to good form quickly.*
> Not relavent, I had a reason and I've used math to show why it's a valid reason. Either address the point properly or drop it, math is more credible than your words. You're arguing with numbers. This isn't opinion, I've proved my point. You have yet to refute it with anything other than "trust me, I used to be masters".
> My gas income went into storms, dt and archons. The ups weren't needed because I had 8 storms and archons. You sacrifice certain things to gain an edge in another way. This is a fundamental pillar of understanding how Protoss work as a race. I didn't address it because you don't know how to play Protoss on a fundamental level. The subltey of the race completely escapes you.
> It wasn't important, lol. Splash damage was important, he had a bio pack and was seeker spaming, I needed feeback, storms, chargelots and archons. My landslide victory proves it wasn't important due to the massive amounts of splash damage I fielded. I was chronoing probes out non-stop, I chrono'd the ups I did get non-stop.
> Too high is subjective to the production facilities you have. It's not a magical arbitrary number. It's a relationship with a few different variables such as how many bases you have, your ballpark income rate, how much production you have, what you currently have on the field and what the opponent has for units. You're over simplifying this to a huge extreme.
> 
> I
> Again with the riding former glories. At least now you're trying to downplay it. I'm not arguing with you on my skill level for two reason. 1) you have no concept of how protoss work as a race. You keep proving it every time you type some silly opinion that doesn't account for the variables in play. 2) I don't care what level of play you think I'm at. You don't even play HotS, you don't support your opinions, you don't account for all the variables in the bare bones opinions you do post and then you use fallacies to justify your opinions instead of anything that's concrete, like numbners or even logical progression.
> 
> I don't doubt your skill @ LotV. That's not in question. I'm questioning your past experiences meaning that you're just as good then as you are now in a game you don't even play anymore. I'm questioning your understanding of Protoss as a race in HotS because you can't even account for all the variables which are relavent to a situation and thus have incomplete or factually wrong opinions, which Ive demonstrated with math.
> And I'd like to see you stop using that stupid "trust me, I used to be masters a year ago" fallacy. Some things were just never meant to be.
> *HotS is barely different than LotV.. if you're good at one you're going to be good at the other. The small details that I would need to learn or relearn aren't hard, but the fact that I grasp the fundamentals extremely well makes being pretty good not very hard.*


For the rest, check my other reply.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> For the rest, check my other reply.


HotS has vastly different timings and different viable unit compositions. I'm now convinced you're either Avilo or Daveroid. I haven't seen a masters with this little understanding of fundamental mechanics beyond them. You might know terran but you've aptly demonstrated you don't undertsand protoss.

That's all I have to say to someone who doesn't support their points of view.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> HotS has vastly different timings and different viable unit compositions. I'm now convinced you're either Avilo or Daveroid. I haven't seen a masters with this little understanding of fundamental mechanics beyond them. You might know terran but you've aptly demonstrated you don't undertsand protoss.
> 
> That's all I have to say to someone who doesn't support their points of view.


I did support my POV, I picked apart the flaws in your game in my previous post. What more do you want? Seriously there was NO excuse for no forges and your slow expanding. That's not Diamond level play, even if some of what you can do is. I think you're capable of Diamond level play if you can improve upon the things I'm suggesting, but if not, then you will probably not ever get that promotion.

Vastly different? Not really. My openers aren't even any different in LotV, they are the same until late game, and since HotS has LESS stuff to worry about, it's a little bit easier in that sense.


----------



## burwij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> HotS has vastly different timings and different viable unit compositions. I'm now convinced you're either Avilo or Daveroid. I haven't seen a masters with this little understanding of fundamental mechanics beyond them. You might know terran but you've aptly demonstrated you don't undertsand protoss.
> 
> That's all I have to say to someone who doesn't support their points of view.


(disclaimer: I haven't played in like 15 months, but I played macro games as Random in mid/high Diamond throughout most of WoL and the beginning of HotS)

Concepts like "get upgrades" and "don't micro so hard that you're floating 2000/500 7 minutes into the game" don't exactly require pro-level knowledge. In that replay, you micro a single stalker and zealot from ~6:55 to ~8:15 without tapping another control group or checking your base once. The 2000/500 that you accumulate during that time basically continues to float until the 15-minute mark.

So-called "high-level strategy" doesn't even come into play in SC2 until high-Diamond/low-Masters. If you know how to spend all of your **** and keep expanding you can basically do whatever you want and simply overwhelm your opponents with superior macro.

Until you can look at a replay and say "I never got supply blocked and had exactly enough resources at exactly the right time," there's always room for improvement. If you can't approach things from that angle and take some constructive criticism, I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I did support my POV, I picked apart the flaws in your game in my previous post.










I explained in detail each decision and each decision was correct for the situation. No forge because I wanted AoE faster. Big bank so I could afford to use my production and so I could counter build (hence the HT spam).
Quote:


> What more do you want? Seriously there was NO excuse for no forges and your slow expanding.


1 gate FE is not slow, lol. I keep saying it but you have no concept of how to play Protoss. You've supplied so much proof to that it's hilarious. I have nothing more to say about that.
Quote:


> That's not Diamond level play, even if some of what you can do is. I think you're capable of Diamond level play if you can improve upon the things I'm suggesting, but if not, then you will probably not ever get that promotion.


The things you're suggesting improvement on happend for a very good reason. Contextually, they made complete sense. Even if you don't think those decisions made sense...well that's why you're a terran player and I'm a protoss player. The mistakes I made were telling my 1st staker die and letting my WP die. Only other thing I wanted to do was get more probes on gas @ my 3rd but I was too busy WINNING the game. No additional tech was needed, only reinforcements - I knew it and capitalized off of that good game state call.
Quote:


> Vastly different? Not really. My openers aren't even any different in LotV, they are the same until late game, and since HotS has LESS stuff to worry about, it's a little bit easier in that sense.


Because having 12 workers at the start doesn't change the timings at all, right?








Nevermind adepts and PO on pylons changing the way PvT works in the early game significantly.

As for that little quip about warping in 12 stalkers, he had ravens. I don't really like the concept of going chargelot archon vs ravens because it means I have no zoning tool to keep ravens from obliteration my ht before I can feedback them. If I lost my ht, I would have lost that game.

If I want LotV advice, I'll defer to your superior judgment and skill. I, however do not want your suggestions or opinions on HotS Protoss. I'm 90% sure that at least when it comes to HotS protoss you don't have a fully working knowledge of how to capitalize off of game states.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burwij*
> 
> (disclaimer: I haven't played in like 15 months, but I played macro games as Random in mid/high Diamond throughout most of WoL and the beginning of HotS)
> 
> Concepts like "get upgrades" and "don't micro so hard that you're floating 2000/500 7 minutes into the game" don't exactly require pro-level knowledge. In that replay, you micro a single stalker and zealot from ~6:55 to ~8:15 without tapping another control group or checking your base once. The 2000/500 that you accumulate during that time basically continues to float until the 15-minute mark.
> 
> So-called "high-level strategy" doesn't even come into play in SC2 until high-Diamond/low-Masters. If you know how to spend all of your **** and keep expanding you can basically do whatever you want and simply overwhelm your opponents with superior macro.
> 
> Until you can look at a replay and say "I never got supply blocked and had exactly enough resources at exactly the right time," there's always room for improvement. If you can't approach things from that angle and take some constructive criticism, I don't know what to tell you.


Upgrades are circumstantial, it depends. Usually they're a good idea and to that end some games I get them. Some games I'll even chrono them out to 3 as fast as possible. Other games numbers are more important, especially in gas heavy compositions like chargelot archon dt ht.

Those high level strategies also didn't start off high level, at some point someone popularized them. What I'm referencing is how metas are born, people do something new and if it works for multiple people then it becomes meta and thus is accepted as a high level strategy.

sOs is a player who does weird crap all the time and wins. He's also one of my biggest inspirations when I play Protoss.

Control groups are a good idea for most players. Some can get away with not using many, however. I am one of those players. I look at how terran splits bio vs LMB and I use that concept as a basis for my micro: drag click, twitch micro. Its why I get 80+ apm consistently in my games off of so few control groups.

I definitely agree, there's pretty much always room for improvement. I watch my replays for that reason. P.S. microing that hard killed off enough marines to keep the terran in their base. It was a good call since Protoss can batch build. Was it ideal? Definitely not but it wa sa good call considering the amount of damage I scored. If I hadn't found decent damage I would have just held position and focused on the macro side more.


----------



## ronnin426850

- You don't upgrade and float bank
- You have no concept of Protoss
- But you don't upgrade and float bank!
- You have no concept of Protoss, I don't care you're Masters
- But why didn't you upgrade and spend resources?
- You have no concept of Protoss.

SHUT THE FLAC UP ALREADY BOTH OF YOU!

DIY, you beat a silver. Conratufekinlations. Beat a diamond and post the replay.

Doom, just stop it already, this conversation isn't doing any favors to your reputation.


----------



## mothergoose729

Ah starcraft threads







.

Been meaning to play for a while. Anybody around diamond just getting into LOTV? Would be fun to play with some folks.

I would be happy to give some pointers too. I am not amazing, but I have followed the game for a long time and I know a little about a lot of things.


----------



## Cybertox

Whispers Of Oblivion prologue missions are now available to anyone for free.

64-bit client









Deluxe Edition gives not only an Adept skin but also a new skin for the Colossus.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Whispers Of Oblivion prologue missions are now available to anyone for free.
> 
> 64-bit client
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deluxe Edition gives not only an Adept skin but also a new skin for the Colossus.
> 
> *snip*


----------



## Pandora51

Finally after 5 years a 64 bit client.

Any word about performance?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> - You don't upgrade and float bank
> - You have no concept of Protoss
> - But you don't upgrade and float bank!
> - You have no concept of Protoss, I don't care you're Masters
> - But why didn't you upgrade and spend resources?
> - You have no concept of Protoss.
> 
> SHUT THE FLAC UP ALREADY BOTH OF YOU!
> 
> DIY, you beat a silver. Conratufekinlations. Beat a diamond and post the replay.
> 
> Doom, just stop it already, this conversation isn't doing any favors to your reputation.


If you're gonna paraphrase at least be accurate. I provided math and reasoning. It's really, really rude to do what you just did, I'm actually a little miffed at you now. Next time butt out of things that aren't your conversation. -.- You don't help by paraphrasing and screwing up your paraphrasing.

Blarg, I want to tear you a new one right now. I'll refrain.


----------



## DoomDash

Cyclone buff makes it some what situationally slightly more useful. I actually managed to win a few TvT's using a marine cyclone rush since Cyclones can keep up/outrun everything basically. When you don't have much units they can be potentially strong. Still pretty meh over all and esp late game but it is what it is.


----------



## ronnin426850

Uh, I must have missed a real Darude - Sandstorm if moderator had to step in


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Finally after 5 years a 64 bit client.
> 
> Any word about performance?


Unfortunately its awful, even worse than in the 32-bit version. In the first Whispers of Oblivion mission I had 30 to 40 fps on my signature rig.









The Whispers Of Oblivion missions are mediocre, boring and as generic as it only gets. I felt like I already played those missions multiple times in the two previous campaigns. So yeah, Blizzard did not fail to disappoint.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Uh, I must have missed a real Darude - Sandstorm if moderator had to step in


I don't know why they stepped in TBH, all the conversations they deleted were pretty timid compared to the previous 2 pages. No warnings either.


----------



## mothergoose729

I run sc2 through WINE on Elemenatry. The 64bit client crashes for me, but that isn't surprising considering I am using the i386 version of WINE for stability. For whatever reason, the 32bit version runs a lot slower than it used to. I used to get windows level of performance; I fired up LOTV today and I had to set it to all low to get playable frame rates. Not that upset because I pretty much exclusively play multiplayer, but it was a tad disappointing to see performance go backwards







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> I run sc2 through WINE on Elemenatry. The 64bit client crashes for me, but that isn't surprising considering I am using the i386 version of WINE for stability. For whatever reason, the 32bit version runs a lot slower than it used to. I used to get windows level of performance; I fired up LOTV today and I had to set it to all low to get playable frame rates. Not that upset because I pretty much exclusively play multiplayer, but it was a tad disappointing to see performance go backwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That can be expected. Today's CPUs are so fast that developers don't feel the need to optimize. Also, it's worth noting that it's still a beta. I bet there are a few threads on the official forum about the poor performance. Blizzard always cared about people of all budget groups being able to buy their games, so maybe they'll fix it


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That can be expected. *Today's CPUs are so fast that developers don't feel the need to optimize*. Also, it's worth noting that it's still a beta. I bet there are a few threads on the official forum about the poor performance. Blizzard always cared about people of all budget groups being able to buy their games, so maybe they'll fix it


Cant help but feel obliged to point out how false that statement is.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Cant help but feel obliged to point out how false that statement is.


Please explain. I'm talking from experience, but I'll accept any argument you have


----------



## DoomDash

Sharing a little clip of one of my matches. Disruptors are a very cool unit so far, they force splits in every match up in almost every composition, and they force Terran to leap frog a little more slowly than normal, as well as scan ahead more often.




Also now that Cyclones are faster I really feel they have a place in the game. I had a bit less success with my ghost opener in TvP now that the meta is shifting (adept nerf), so now I'm doing a reactor barracks marine, 2 cyclone w/ upgrade range timing push. It's quite fun and powerful if you control it correctly. As I said when units are in low numbers is when Cyclones can shine the most, a well controlled attack can do a bunch of damage. They are very well rounded units, so opening with them is kind of safe. Been trying to go liberatorless in TvP, hoping that the Cyclones will deter the Protoss players from going into air (even though carriers would wreck them too), since Liberators seem to force air which I don't want.

DYIDeath have you been using Disruptors or playing LotV at all?

Last thought: I've been watching Stephano play lots of ZvZ's, and he kind of plays Lurker/Mass defense style, knowingly being behind in economy. He usually exchanges in his favor pretty well, so being down in bases isn't a big deal for him. Kinda cool to see Zerg have a mech like play style with the lurker (and not as lame as the swarm host).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> knowingly being behind in economy.


Perhaps that's his form of Handicap mode







Otherwise it'd be boring.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Perhaps that's his form of Handicap mode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise it'd be boring.


I think after thousands and thousands of insanely aggressive ZvZ's that can be a bit random, playing turtle Zerg could be quite refreshing.


----------



## Pandora51

So Im trying to play the LotV now more often but from time to time the lag is awful.
Like a few minutes back. Games says 200ms and there is stuttering, too. Annyoing as hell.

Otherwise LotV is fun and I discovered how much fun the discrupter really is.
boom and everything is gone!









And as it stands for performance in the 64 - bit client in Hots:

Its AWFUL! What has blizzard done? Hopefully it will turn out better in LotV


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> So Im trying to play the LotV now more often but from time to time the lag is awful.
> Like a few minutes back. Games says 200ms and there is stuttering, too. Annyoing as hell.
> 
> Otherwise LotV is fun and I discovered how much fun the discrupter really is.
> boom and everything is gone!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as it stands for performance in the 64 - bit client in Hots:
> 
> Its AWFUL! What has blizzard done? Hopefully it will turn out better in LotV


They are already working on an optimization/performance patch for 3.0.


----------



## mothergoose729

All of the terran streamers I watch are complaining about balance in TvP. The carrier/tempest combo is really strong against mech. Even after the most recent adept nerf, one and two base warp prism adept all ins are still really powerful, which is having a huge impact on viable terran openers. Terran's feel forced into bio as a composition, for the third expansion in a row, with mines and liberators to supplement late game.

All the zergs say mech is OP in LOTV and lots of terrans say it is garbage. So that is in a weird place. The ghost is pretty OP right now so I see a lot of ghost bio compositions using the new snipe, with some liberators, to handle ultras and other tier 3 zerg tech. In TvT mech seems even stronger in Lotv than HOTS, so not too much change there. Tankivac micro seems pretty important for the terran that has more air control.

I don't play zerg, but I do watch some zerg streams. Some zergs seem to be struggling against protoss right now. Feels like protoss is strongest in lotv at the moment.

My biggest gripe with lotv currently is that I don't like any of the new units. Carriers aren't really being used like they are in broodwar. They seem to be massed or not used, and its lots of defensive turtling culminating in essentially a 1a attack down the middle of the map. Adepts are being more and more regulated as an early game unit with emphasis on scouting and harass, and are only in late game comps if as a counter against mass lings or marines, if at all. Liberators, balance wise, seems ok. Might need a nerf but not too far off. Personal preference, I find the unit's role in terran compositions confusing. I feel the same way about disruptions. The balance of the unit is pretty close, just overlaps a lot with all of toss other splash damage.

I think that the cyclone as a unit is completely broken. It isn't imbalanced, it is just poor design. It out ranges and out runs most everything, but you have to make its other stats terrible in order to compensate or it will just be massed. At best it will be a harassment/timing oriented unit for early game pushes. It does not have a place in any mature late game composition and I don't think it ever will. My least favorite unit in LOTV by far.

I do like the addition of the lurker, because zerg desperately need a lair tech siege unit and an upgrade path for hydras. The grenade on reapers is a lot of fun to use and opens up really interesting micro situations. The ravager is a pretty good concept, and a good upgrade path with the lurker for roach/hydra comps, but I am a bit worried that the ravager/lurker combo might end up becoming the future of zerg compositions. Nobody wants to see zerg make more long range seige units behind static D.

I feel like the new econ model is fine. Not perfect but close enough for what blizzard is going for. I am hoping that eventually as the game gets more figured out, that the new units will start filling more nitch roles. At the moment, most strategies in LOTV seem very one dimensional , which makes it, for me, not very enjoyable to watch. I am having a blast playing it though. Tons of units to micro and lots of novel game situations.


----------



## DoomDash

New Community Feedback Update! yay carrier nerf!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19288409725


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Hello everyone, let's get right into this week's update!
> 
> Beta in general
> The game seems to be at a decent place now in terms of balance across all the skill levels currently within the beta. Our internal data is looking to be nearing 50% in all matchups of all skill levels, and looking at the feedback coming in both from the community side and the pro level side, the number of potential issues that we need to balance patch has greatly reduced as well.
> 
> It's pretty clear that we're slowing down on number of issues that come up in the beta, and we feel that having less and less things to tweak in game from week to week is definitely a good thing since we're around 1 month away from release. We also reached out to various pro players regarding the small list of changes, and the general consensus we heard back was that the state of the game is pretty good right now + the small number of things we're looking at for the next balance update looks to be in a good direction.
> 
> However, we'd like to point out once more that there will be a high chance that balance isn't quite there yet at the pro level. Highest level pros generally don't play in the beta as we've seen in both LotV and HotS betas, and we'll just need to react accordingly post ship as potential issues come up. Although the balance at skill levels outside of the pro level is looking very good right now, we wanted to iterate that we'll be paying very close attention to the pro level right after the game releases as professional gamers start playing the game for real.
> 
> Cyclone
> The Cyclone isn't quite there yet even after the last patch, so we've been exploring various potential changes. Where we are at currently that we want to roll out to beta is higher damage on lock on and lower health on Cyclone themselves. Instead of having Cyclones as all round units, we're having a lot more success with them as intense micro units that can potentially have big wins when lock on and the fast movement speed are used effectively. Please let us know your thoughts on these changes once the changes go to beta tomorrow.
> 
> Infestor
> We heard your feedback on wanting to hear thoughts on where we think Neural Parasite stands. Like you guys pointed out, we have discussed/explored replacing this ability, but due to the fantasy of having a mind control ability like this being such a cool factor, we were unable to locate an ability that feels just as powerful. Our current thought is that having changed the range back to 9 should have helped it see more play.
> 
> Theoretically, the ability should be a lot more powerful now since only siege ranged units can reach the Infestor, but because players haven't really given the ability a serious try yet during the beta, we don't quite know exactly where it stands. For example, if it's the case that players just haven't tried the unit (which looks to be the case right now), we don't want to overbuff it. On the flip side, if it had been fully tested, and needs further buffs, we can make according changes.
> 
> A balance change such as this one, existing unit/existing ability numbers tuning, doesn't necessarily have to be completely figured out during beta, and your call of focusing on more critical things such as new units, new abilities, new econ system, macro mechanics etc. does feel like it was the correct thing to do. We don't think getting the numbers just right for this ability is one of the most critically important things we needed to solve during the beta, and we can work on this going forward even in the live game as well.
> 
> The other spells we belive are in a good place. Fungal Growth is situationally extremely powerful right now especially in combination with other abilities/units such as Blinding Cloud, the new Viper AoE damage ability, Banelings, Ultralisks, etc.
> 
> The main goal for the Infestor is not to have the unit see play in every single game of every matchup, but we want this caster to be powerful in specific strategies or scenarios.
> 
> Carrier
> We definitely hear your feedback on the new ability making Carriers very powerful in the late game, especially from the higher level players currently in the beta as well as from the KR community. While we do agree that Carriers do look powerful, we'd like to see if we can push this type of late game strength on Protoss a little bit without overreacting with heavy nerfs. Like you guys point out, we believe the new strength of Carriers come from 3 areas: being able to not lose the DPS as each Carrier falls due to the launch Interceptor ability, faster build time of Carriers in LotV that allows players to have a smaller window of weakness before Carriers are massed, and interceptor leashing changes.
> 
> We believe the first is the biggest contributing factor, since full DPS of all Carriers remain in combat for a long duration. And the third is arguably a buff and a nerf depending on what the Carrier is trying to do. Therefore, we'd like to revert the build time reduction change we did to Carriers for now, so that Carriers remain nearly as powerful as they are, but it is more of a risk to mass Carriers for Protoss players.
> 
> Disruptor issues
> We'd like to fix the bugs that allow the Disruptors to be moved while the damaging shot is active asap, because it could get in the way of beta testing this unit properly.
> 
> Adept
> This unit is another area that we're keeping close tabs on, but we don't have immediate balance changes for in tomorrow's balance update. It's initially looking like nerfing their health a second time in combination with the warp in nerfs may not have been necessary. We'll be looking to tune up the stats on the Adept a bit if need be, so please give us your feedback and thoughts on the Adept as well.
> 
> The current plan is to release another balance update tomorrow even though we only have a few changes because there aren't as many issues as before, we don't have a lot of time remaining with the beta, and we'd like to really focus down on fine tuning the game as best as we can before release. Thank you for your help as always, and please continue to play as many games of beta as possible so that we can work together towards a great release of LotV.





Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> All of the terran streamers I watch are complaining about balance in TvP. The carrier/tempest combo is really strong against mech. Even after the most recent adept nerf, one and two base warp prism adept all ins are still really powerful, which is having a huge impact on viable terran openers. Terran's feel forced into bio as a composition, for the third expansion in a row, with mines and liberators to supplement late game.
> 
> All the zergs say mech is OP in LOTV and lots of terrans say it is garbage. So that is in a weird place. The ghost is pretty OP right now so I see a lot of ghost bio compositions using the new snipe, with some liberators, to handle ultras and other tier 3 zerg tech. In TvT mech seems even stronger in Lotv than HOTS, so not too much change there. Tankivac micro seems pretty important for the terran that has more air control.


I watch Vibe EVERY night and he says mech is not OP, but bio is. Also you can tell even if you don't agree with him almost every ZvT he has is vs Bio, so the meta says Bio is better. Also the Zergs I play keep telling me I should play bio. I personally think mech is in a okay spot, but parasitic bomb is a bit much late game. Still possible but def Zerg favored late.

As far as Carriers in TvP.... vs mech yeah tempest/carrier is completely unbeatable, but the patch that's incoming at least will make GETTING to carriers a little more risky, which I think is a perfect choice for now. I don't think Bio struggles that badly with carriers since you have the ability to punish protoss a lot more at almost every stage of the game, get more scouting information, and marines are quite good against interceptors actually.

I still play mech in every match up, I think it's over all best in LotV.... though in HotS I imagine TvZ was pretty easy compared to when I played it since Swarm Hosts got nerfed to crap.


----------



## ronnin426850

You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?

How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?
> 
> How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?


Carriers will still be used and extremely good. I'm happy because the unit will be close to be being balanced, I don't want it nerfed into the ground. The Blue post clearly talks about that.

Also most units are used, and they are even addressing ones that aren't being used like Infestors.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?
> 
> How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?


I did not read that in the patch update notes. They said they are only removing the shortened build time. The changes that made carriers strong again was an attack leash on interceptors and interceptors still fighting after the carrier dies.


----------



## DoomDash

Not sure how viable it is yet, but opening reactor marines cyclone rush is pretty damn fun, in all match ups!

Vs Zerg you can actually transition into mass cyclone hellion since they are the same speed. You need really great and lots of babying your army to make it work, but its extremely fun.


----------



## Anti!!

Patch 3.0 is SO FREAKING LAGGY!!!!!!

SHEESH!!

I even had a graphics issue once and had to restart.

It is just stutter stutter stutter.. Can't micro at all in team games.

Everything is set to Medium on 1680x1050 and 3v3s still lag ballz


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Please explain. I'm talking from experience, but I'll accept any argument you have


Having fast CPUs is not an excuse for not optimizing a game, not at all. You have to optimize the game in order to make use of the additional power of the CPU. You have a moderately fast car which drives on the highway which has a limit of 120 kmh, when you buy a new race car you are not going to be able to drive faster than120 despite the fact that your race car is capable of doing so. You have to rebuild the road into a race circuit. Same applies to games, especially to SC2 which is pretty much a highway full of racing cars.

I dont see how you would have experience with any of this at all either.

Sorry for the extremely late reply, uni had me busy.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Having fast CPUs is not an excuse for not optimizing a game, not at all. You have to optimize the game in order to make use of the additional power of the CPU. You have a moderately fast car which drives on the highway which has a limit of 120 kmh, when you buy a new race car you are not going to be able to drive faster than120 despite the fact that your race car is capable of doing so. You have to rebuild the road into a race circuit. Same applies to games, especially to SC2 which is pretty much a highway full of racing cars.
> 
> I dont see how you would have experience with any of this at all either.
> 
> Sorry for the extremely late reply, uni had me busy.


Of course it's not an excuse, but devs still use the amazingly fast CPUs that we have today to hide the fact that their code is amazingly inefficient.
Because if you forget one *break* in a *while* loop on a 3Ghz Haswell core, the user will never see the difference, FPS won't drop, however you'll still be using 70%+ more CPU time than you need. And when that builds up, people are left with the impression that a Core i3 or a quad-core Athlon are too slow to play games. That is false beyond measure. These CPUs are blazingly fast.
And I'm not saying that's how it should be, I'm just saying that's how it is. And I have experience, because I've written software for 7Mhz single-core CPUs and am currently writing corporate software for Windows and know how to optimize, and therefore can recognize when something is unoptimized


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sharing a little clip of one of my matches. Disruptors are a very cool unit so far, they force splits in every match up in almost every composition, and they force Terran to leap frog a little more slowly than normal, as well as scan ahead more often.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Patch 3.0 is SO FREAKING LAGGY!!!!!!
> 
> SHEESH!!
> 
> I even had a graphics issue once and had to restart.
> 
> It is just stutter stutter stutter.. Can't micro at all in team games.
> 
> Everything is set to Medium on 1680x1050 and 3v3s still lag ballz


You need to start the 32 bit client until blizzard has a fix ready.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*


I don't get it.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> You need to start the 32 bit client until blizzard has a fix ready.


Did the game automatically start using the 64 bit client after the patch? I was under the impression I was using the 32 bit client all along. If so, do I just find the exe in the x86 folder or do I do something else?


----------



## mothergoose729

You can set it under options in the bnet launchar window.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19929294


----------



## DIYDeath

Holy crap LotV archon mode with randoms is frustrating. Guy kept saying "I'll handle macro" then takes ultras pre splits too early, attacks with small amounts of corrupters into superior viking counts, keeps grabbing roaches from the ultras and splits them when we're fighting 4 base mech and refuses to listen when I tell him we're starving the terran out because they have 4 bases and we have 12. Nevermind we only had 12 because I was making additional hatcheries since he wasn't macroing...still won even though he kept splitting up the army we needed together since we knew where the mech ball was and could attack it directly.

Then as Protoss he wants to all-in, cool, so we go for it and he constantly grabs stalkers and kites them back with no need as Im trying to trade shields for free hits on the bio units. He want to focus down the depot instead while they're pumping bio which is gonna snowball if we don't chip away at it.

Guy was supposed to be daimond as random. If that's true he must have won off of people not opening right due to late scout. Who the hell takes a line of ultras, constantly pulls them back and gets half the army killed consistently/never groups when you can attack into a centralized terran mech ball with the uber buffed ultras. Nevermind throwing away 8 broodlords for no reason against a PF+vikings by splitting the army up...

He was pretty good at terran though. I'll give him that.

I don't think he understood the concept of taking a line of units lead by ultras and splitting them as you enter combat so only 1-2 ultras take significant damage rather than several as they fold out from behind. It's a freaking cavalry tactic irl for christ sakes. -.- It's designed to get a concave with powerful units, letting a few take the brunt of the attack so the others can clean up.

Okay rant done.

P.S. lotv beta, I'm starting to beat dai and koreans. Im getting stretched to my utmost limit doing it as z and still lose to certain things, having a hard time vs liberators. Other than that though Im loving the game.

ZvZ is by far my favorite MU. It's so scrappy and your micro has to be split second. Ling/bane wars so quickly makes even the slightest mistake devastating - and potentially game ending, I love it though, especially transitioning into mutas behind it and just controlling the game state, forcing lots of spores while the lings and banes force spines and roaches.

It's intense.


----------



## Anti!!

ZvZ has always been that. It is rough. Somedays i rock it and others i just leave the game and queue again.

Im considering doing my old strat of pure ling banen infestor into Ultra 3-4 base. It pwns roach hydra. I dont kbow how it will work with lurkers though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> ZvZ has always been that. It is rough. Somedays i rock it and others i just leave the game and queue again.
> 
> Im considering doing my old strat of pure ling banen infestor into Ultra 3-4 base. It pwns roach hydra. I dont kbow how it will work with lurkers though.


In theory, not well xD. Well until you start money shotting with ravagers. I think the main issue might be affording that unit comp - or finding an opponent who doesn't just die to LMB before further transition is needed. But that's just me, I play super aggressive and in incements, that unit comp seems like you'd want to be more defensive.


----------



## DoomDash

So TIL Disruptors hard counter hellion/cyclone







. Hellion Cyclone depends on the move speed but the speed of the Disruptor projectile is actually faster than both of them.

At least in TvZ you can kinda make hellion cyclone actually work... probably one of the most fun compositions I've played with.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So TIL Disruptors hard counter hellion/cyclone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Hellion Cyclone depends on the move speed but the speed of the Disruptor projectile is actually faster than both of them.
> 
> At least in TvZ you can kinda make hellion cyclone actually work... probably one of the most fun compositions I've played with.


Do you think that new terran is more focused on gimmicks? Playing vs them that's the distinct impression I'm getting, they're feeling more like HotS Protoss in PvZ, at least for me.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Do you think that new terran is more focused on gimmicks? Playing vs them that's the distinct impression I'm getting, they're feeling more like HotS Protoss in PvZ, at least for me.


Hmmm I don't know tbh. I can't tell.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Hmmm I don't know tbh. I can't tell.


Same, I just got beta so I don't think Im qualified to say for certain. It just feels that way with things like libertator mineral line harass+the mass mines Ive been seeing. Not that I mind it, well I kinda don't like AtG on the Liberator. It deals way too much damage to light units but I get why the damage is high, needs to be so Terran can actually deal with ultras and not have to get ghosts - but it just mulches things like hydras which seems a tad bit silly. Your thoughts on that interaction?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Same, I just got beta so I don't think Im qualified to say for certain. It just feels that way with things like libertator mineral line harass+the mass mines Ive been seeing. Not that I mind it, well I kinda don't like AtG on the Liberator. It deals way too much damage to light units but I get why the damage is high, needs to be so Terran can actually deal with ultras and not have to get ghosts - but it just mulches things like hydras which seems a tad bit silly. Your thoughts on that interaction?


I don't know about mass mines, I would imagine it's no better or worse than HotS since they are unchanged.

Liberators are extremely powerful, no doubt about that. Probably one of the best Terran units in the game, and their anti-ground mode is pretty nuts (but not without its weaknesses). I think for the most part slowing down the AiG like they did stopped the biggest problem with the worker harassment, now almost every race should have the tools to deal with them properly by the time its out. Blizzard specifically mentioned they are looking into the AiG range if it is a problem. The liberator feels like it's meant to be a Valkyrie + a BW siege tank in damage/zoning. They cannot reduce the AiG damage much without some sort of other buff, which would have gone to the tank before they made tanks pickupable.

They are even powerful enough to make mech able to destroy Protoss ground.... now if only I could figure out a way to deal with Skytoss







.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I don't know about mass mines, I would imagine it's no better or worse than HotS since they are unchanged.
> 
> Liberators are extremely powerful, no doubt about that. Probably one of the best Terran units in the game, and their anti-ground mode is pretty nuts (but not without its weaknesses). I think for the most part slowing down the AiG like they did stopped the biggest problem with the worker harassment, now almost every race should have the tools to deal with them properly by the time its out. Blizzard specifically mentioned they are looking into the AiG range if it is a problem. The liberator feels like it's meant to be a Valkyrie + a BW siege tank in damage/zoning. They cannot reduce the AiG damage much without some sort of other buff, which would have gone to the tank before they made tanks pickupable.
> 
> They are even powerful enough to make mech able to destroy Protoss ground.... now if only I could figure out a way to deal with Skytoss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah, mass mines is just annoying. It's not anything beyond that. Focus fire before they burrow usually clears them up nicely, so does sending in 4 lings and having the friendly fire kill terran units.

Personally I'd just give Liberator AtG a significat damage nerf and compensate by making up the difference through a +damage to armored. I think the issue is mostly to do with AtG just killing ground based aa too fast due to the insane amounts of damage to light units.


----------



## mothergoose729

I think most people are probably playing abusively. That is fast liberators on maps with lots of open air space around expansions is abusive of the range and attack power of liberators.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> ZvZ has always been that. It is rough. Somedays i rock it and others i just leave the game and queue again.
> 
> Im considering doing my old strat of pure ling banen infestor into Ultra 3-4 base. It pwns roach hydra. I dont kbow how it will work with lurkers though.


I think at higher leagues there are lots of problems with that strategy. Ling bane into muta, and then into ultra, however, is still quite viable. Based on my limited experience with zerg streams, that seems to be the major theme of ZvZ lately.


----------



## DIYDeath

So new game timer buffed Oracles massively. If you're Protoss and you see Ultras, just get a few oracles and lol as they burst down everything with spell damage that ignores armor values including bases. Yes, that's right they even burst down bases now.

1st time I saw it used against me my jaw dropped as my hive, roach warren and ultra cavern evaporated and my 7 ultras got wrecked in seconds.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So new game timer buffed Oracles massively. If you're Protoss and you see Ultras, just get a few oracles and lol as they burst down everything with spell damage that ignores armor values including bases. Yes, that's right they even burst down bases now.
> 
> 1st time I saw it used against me my jaw dropped as my hive, roach warren and ultra cavern evaporated and my 7 ultras got wrecked in seconds.


That sounds pretty cool actually heh. Have you tried the new oracle spell? It's pretty cool (the one that traps units).

New Community Feedback Update!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19486628519


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That sounds pretty cool actually heh. Have you tried the new oracle spell? It's pretty cool (the one that traps units).
> 
> New Community Feedback Update!
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19486628519


Not yet, was eating dinner. Need to relax a little, watch some tv. After that I'll give it a try. Stasis ward does seem pretty fun though. Would be fun for perma stun locking units in a base race.

I wonder if it works on larva...


----------



## DIYDeath

So I stared using stasis ward, it's hilarious on mineral lines and decent to cut off any troops who think they can attack into my carriers. Before I have 4 carriers I dont use stasis ward though. Depending on the MU I'm typically opening FFE, mass cannons+msc+air ups. I don't even bother with warp gates, 8 Oracles asap, I go do some terrible, terrible damage while massing carriers+voids behind it, sometomes phoenix if there's a need for them over void rays. It's disgustingly powerful.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So I stared using stasis ward, it's hilarious on mineral lines and decent to cut off any troops who think they can attack into my carriers. Before I have 4 carriers I dont use stasis ward though. Depending on the MU I'm typically opening FFE, mass cannons+msc+air ups. I don't even bother with warp gates, 8 Oracles asap, I go do some terrible, terrible damage while massing carriers+voids behind it, sometomes phoenix if there's a need for them over void rays. It's disgustingly powerful.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*


Best meme ever, lol. I havent gotten to try it vs terran yet but Im assuming 8 oracle opener would be devastating to them too. Just burst down ccs with a stasis ward to stop repairs. If marines come, then 8 oracles will murder them too.

Last game I took down 2 hatcheries before flying off thanks to mutas, had 2 carriers push immediately with 2/2/1 and more rallied to the carriers. Kept the oracles alive all game and just kept sniping buildings, I don't even bother attacking workers with them.

Zerg tried to counter, cannon wall+oracles flying back dealt with that easily. Didn't even use Photon Overcharge.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Best meme ever, lol. I havent gotten to try it vs terran yet but Im assuming 8 oracle opener would be devastating to them too. Just burst down ccs with a stasis ward to stop repairs. If marines come, then 8 oracles will murder them too.
> 
> Last game I took down 2 hatcheries before flying off thanks to mutas, had 2 carriers push immediately with 2/2/1 and more rallied to the carriers. Kept the oracles alive all game and just kept sniping buildings, I don't even bother attacking workers with them.
> 
> Zerg tried to counter, cannon wall+oracles flying back dealt with that easily. Didn't even use Photon Overcharge.


Yeah I just made that meme







. I had some master player who went mass oracles vs me as an opener... and even though my build normally shuts down oracle openers, I wasn't expecting that many and I could not deal with it. I think there is potential to a bunch of oracles, assuming they don't get scouted and it's at least some what a surprise. You would have loved the previous patch since carriers had the faster build time, making it pretty easy and safeish to transition into them. As you can see from the blue post even with the reverted carrier time they are still considered a bit too powerful, so enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> In theory, not well xD. Well until you start money shotting with ravagers. I think the main issue might be affording that unit comp - or finding an opponent who doesn't just die to LMB before further transition is needed. But that's just me, I play super aggressive and in incements, that unit comp seems like you'd want to be more defensive.


Yea, aside from ling run bys and burrow infestor play you have to be defensive with fungal, spore, and bane hits until ultras get out. Another thing EVERYONE forgets is bane drops. Which now are more difficult that ever since they nerfed the overlord drop upgrade to oblivion by making each overlord HAVE to be upgraded to drop individually.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I just made that meme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I had some master player who went mass oracles vs me as an opener... and even though my build normally shuts down oracle openers, I wasn't expecting that many and I could not deal with it. I think there is potential to a bunch of oracles, assuming they don't get scouted and it's at least some what a surprise. You would have loved the previous patch since carriers had the faster build time, making it pretty easy and safeish to transition into them. As you can see from the blue post even with the reverted carrier time they are still considered a bit too powerful, so enjoy it while it lasts.


One play that totally countered me was a ravager timing, made my cannons look silly. Guess I need to start using Oracle Chargelot Archon.

Getting tired of the terran gimmicks though, with the bigger bases I keep seeing a random factory getting sneaked into a blind spot. -.- Still have a ways to go to get LotV figured out...but yeah mass Oracles is absolutely devastating.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea, aside from ling run bys and burrow infestor play you have to be defensive with fungal, spore, and bane hits until ultras get out. Another thing EVERYONE forgets is bane drops. Which now are more difficult that ever since they nerfed the overlord drop upgrade to oblivion by making each overlord HAVE to be upgraded to drop individually.


Why not just Nydus+queens? Ovie drops are for chumps xD.

Was playing an Archon game, the "daimond random" player kept trying to pre split the Ultras and was waiting faaaaar too long to attack because of it. I just kept thinging ARG STAPH. Maybe I'm weird but I 1-a and then at the last second I split, I barely use control groups for units unless they're casters, I just make adjustments to my unit formations on the fly.

I figure the strategy works irl with cavalry charges and Ultralisks are essentially cavalry so why not run in and fold the ultras out to the sides, forming a concave just before you hit the enemy force? I do the same thing with lings and chargelots.

On another note my PvP is utterly devastating, I'm tearing apart good koean players so fast and easily.

I open FFE but instead of normal gateway pressure I cannon rush while macroing hard behind it since the opponent can't pressure my base if they want to not lose their main. Typically the cannons win the game, when they don't I unleash the Dank Templar xD Or Oracles. Even Photon Overcharge isn't enough to save them and it doesn't matter if they know its coming or not. Guess that's what happens when you have 100 apm while cannon rushing and a 150 mineral avg float with less than 20 seconds supply blocked. It's just super efficient. I don't even send the msc for PO to their base, it stays at home as a "just in case" button.

PvP cannon rushing with the economy changes got a massive buff, especially since it's no longer really a cheese since you're macroing behind it on 2 bases and still getting tech.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> One play that totally countered me was a ravager timing, made my cannons look silly. Guess I need to start using Oracle Chargelot Archon.
> 
> Getting tired of the terran gimmicks though, with the bigger bases I keep seeing a random factory getting sneaked into a blind spot. -.- Still have a ways to go to get LotV figured out...but yeah mass Oracles is absolutely devastating.


Spread those pylons out! Also, keep some pylons at key spots for the new photon overcharge!


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Spread those pylons out! Also, keep some pylons at key spots for the new photon overcharge!


Already ahead of you, now I don't run into that issue too much. I'm still trying to make my FFE/cannon rush work vs terran...just because I hate vsing terrans so bloody much. That's probably stigma left over from Protoss being excessively weak to bio in the early game (wol, I still have nightmares about early bio pushes and needing to FF just to keep them out of my main).


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Already ahead of you, now I don't run into that issue too much. I'm still trying to make my FFE/cannon rush work vs terran...just because I hate vsing terrans so bloody much. That's probably stigma left over from Protoss being excessively weak to bio in the early game (wol, I still have nightmares about early bio pushes and needing to FF just to keep them out of my main).


At least Terrans are rare.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> At least Terrans are rare.


And for some strange reason I think that's a good thing. That's just my bias talking though, terrans like you are fine but as others sometimes call them "dem splitz" terrans are just irritating.

You wouldn't believe how often I hear about new ultras being op, only to see a replay where they only made MMM. It's like they're allergic to common sense...I mean would you keep making low damage, high attack period units against a beefy unit that has tons of armor? Probably not...


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> And for some strange reason I think that's a good thing. That's just my bias talking though, terrans like you are fine but as others sometimes call them "dem splitz" terrans are just irritating.
> 
> You wouldn't believe how often I hear about new ultras being op, only to see a replay where they only made MMM. It's like they're allergic to common sense...I mean would you keep making low damage, high attack period units against a beefy unit that has tons of armor? Probably not...


Bio players have a decent counter to Ultras now, ghosts! As much as you dislike the bio players it does take a lot of skill to win with it all the way in the late game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Bio players have a decent counter to Ultras now, ghosts! As much as you dislike the bio players it does take a lot of skill to win with it all the way in the late game.


Skill and excessive amounts of stubborness. The definition of insanity is reapeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. But yeah, Ghosts do counter ultras. I just meant pure MMM or MMM+tanks and then complaining that ultras won't die fast enough.


----------



## DoomDash

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19932221/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-october-23-2015-10-23-2015


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Anti!!

@ DIYdeath

I was referring to Bane drops meaning 1 overlord with 4 banes in it. Send one to main and one to nat and kill min line.







Even if it is not successful the first couple of times it is like medvac drops from terran. One WILL do damage eventually. It just takes APM.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> @ DIYdeath
> 
> I was referring to Bane drops meaning 1 overlord with 4 banes in it. Send one to main and one to nat and kill min line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if it is not successful the first couple of times it is like medvac drops from terran. One WILL do damage eventually. It just takes APM.


I know what you meant, I was being half sarcastic.

That's one hell of an expensive ovie to lose which is why I'd rather just nydus. If the nydus dies I don't lose a ton of gas, only a little.


----------



## DoomDash

SC2 beta ending soon, damn! I have to figure out how to spare $40 for LotV, and $60 for Fallout 4. Poor people problems.


----------



## DefCoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SC2 beta ending soon, damn! I have to figure out how to spare $40 for LotV, and $60 for Fallout 4. Poor people problems.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> http://www.vice.com/read/it-was-once-the-biggest-esport-in-the-world-so-whats-happened-to-starcraft-446


I know right...I gotta figure out how I'm going to get the $40 for Lotv and I wanted to watch the virtual stream too. I don't have much to spare right now either after building my htpc :/


----------



## mothergoose729

This is your brain



This is your brain on pro-toss


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SC2 beta ending soon, damn! I have to figure out how to spare $40 for LotV, and $60 for Fallout 4. Poor people problems.


I solved this by pre-ordering way back







that + I don't play too many new releases (Canada reached Australian prices, $70-80 now for most new AAA titles with day 1 DLC on half the stuff). I have too big of a steam backlog anyway.


----------



## DoomDash

Patch 3.03 notes:
http://imgur.com/a/r8fbm


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I know what you meant, I was being half sarcastic.
> 
> That's one hell of an expensive ovie to lose which is why I'd rather just nydus. If the nydus dies I don't lose a ton of gas, only a little.


Both a medvac full of marines and an Ovie full of banes are both 100 gas if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Patch 3.03 notes:
> http://imgur.com/a/r8fbm


HA! now the trash talkers will have consequence! (Excessive trash talkers)

***EDIT***

BLAST!!! I got engrossed in work and forgot I already posted earlier.. lol


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Both a medvac full of marines and an Ovie full of banes are both 100 gas if I am not mistaken.


Can't remember the capacity for an ovie but 25xlets say 6+the ovie cost is a lot more than 100 gas.


----------



## mothergoose729

medivac drop costs a lot more. You are looking at 8 x 50 minerals for marines + 100/100 for the medivac, where an OL costs 25/25 to morph + 4 x 25/25 for bannelings.

Medivac drop with 8 marines: 500 minerals, 100 gas
OL drop with 4 bannelings: 225 minerals, 125 gas


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> medivac drop costs a lot more. You are looking at 8 x 50 minerals for marines + 100/100 for the medivac, where an OL costs 25/25 to morph + 4 x 25/25 for bannelings.
> 
> Medivac drop with 8 marines: 500 minerals, 100 gas
> OL drop with 4 bannelings: 225 minerals, 125 gas


Ahhh thought the ovie would carry more banes since they're such a small unit size.

Minerals are of no consequence and medivacs have boost. So it's not the same risk.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Ahhh thought the ovie would carry more banes since they're such a small unit size.
> 
> Minerals are of no consequence and medivacs have boost. So it's not the same risk.


500 minerals is the cost of an expansion... medivac drops are usually better though.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm tempted to not buy LotV, don't really have tons of money and the game is not very conducive to my life right now. Not sure though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm tempted to not buy LotV, don't really have tons of money and the game is not very conducive to my life right now. Not sure though.


I thought you had beta, unless you got invited?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I thought you had beta, unless you got invited?


Yeah it was an actual invite, not preorder.


----------



## ronnin426850

I got an invite too, but didn't play more than 5 games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I got an invite too, but didn't play more than 5 games.


y


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> y


I still suffer mild PTSD from that game







Early HotS was really stressful for me, so I get bad vibes every time I try to play SC2. It's much better now though, I expect I'll be able to play regularly next year


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I still suffer mild PTSD from that game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Early HotS was really stressful for me, so I get bad vibes every time I try to play SC2. It's much better now though, I expect I'll be able to play regularly next year


Even playing Unkranked? Should just play Eye of the Tiger before you play a match







.


----------



## DIYDeath

Yeah if you get ladder ptsd just play unranked and do whatever you want. Unranked has seperate mmr, I was vsing daimond and masters before I started taking a little break in unranked.


----------



## Pandora51

Wait unranked and ranked have different mmr?
Is it still possible to play as unranked player against ranked players?


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Wait unranked and ranked have different mmr?
> Is it still possible to play as unranked player against ranked players?


Yes and yes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Even playing Unkranked? Should just play Eye of the Tiger before you play a match
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I played a lot of Enforcer in the background, it gave the best results, but being pumped does not entirely protect you from stress








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah if you get ladder ptsd just play unranked and do whatever you want. Unranked has seperate mmr, I was vsing daimond and masters before I started taking a little break in unranked.


For some reason I was always matched against much stronger players than me, Diamond or Platinum. Every unranked game was a defeat.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I played a lot of Enforcer in the background, it gave the best results, but being pumped does not entirely protect you from stress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason I was always matched against much stronger players than me, Diamond or Platinum. Every unranked game was a defeat.


Quit 5 games in a row and you'll face worse opponents. I started doing that in HotS due to stupid turtle mech. LotV is a much, much better game - although much faster too. I find it draining after a few games.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Yes and yes.


That system is terrible but whatever..

thanks

Personally unranked is not an option. Win is win and loose is loose. My mistakes will be the same and it would hurt me anyways.
But thats only me


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Of course it's not an excuse, but devs still use the amazingly fast CPUs that we have today to hide the fact that their code is amazingly inefficient.
> Because if you forget one *break* in a *while* loop on a 3Ghz Haswell core, the user will never see the difference, FPS won't drop, however you'll still be using 70%+ more CPU time than you need. And when that builds up, people are left with the impression that a Core i3 or a quad-core Athlon are too slow to play games. That is false beyond measure. These CPUs are blazingly fast.
> And I'm not saying that's how it should be, I'm just saying that's how it is. And I have experience, because I've written software for 7Mhz single-core CPUs and am currently writing corporate software for Windows and know how to optimize, and therefore can recognize when something is unoptimized


You wrote software for 7MHz CPUs with 1 core, these guys are writing software for 2 to 4, GHz CPUs with up to 8 Cores with 16 threads. Games function a lot differently and are a lot more complex than corporate software, especially when it comes down to GPU optimization. StarCraft 2 and all of its simulation is done on only one thread, this is absurdly pathetic. Its not a question of difficulty, but a question of resources and time allocation.

I don't have money for LOTV either, bought many expensive things this month including the iPhone 6S Plus, a Limited Edition Box Set and new clothes, I also had to pay for some expenses from the previous month. Its kind of pathetic, can't afford a video game, lol. But I am a free lancer and my income purely bases on commissions that I get. Once I get an actual job I won't be facing such problems anymore. The thing is though, I sometimes earn more money through commissions than my friends or colleagues who have a monthly salary.

To say the truth, I am not hyped about LOTV. Not at all. Barely anything new which caught my attention.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> You wrote software for 7MHz CPUs with 1 core, these guys are writing software for 2 to 4, GHz CPUs with up to 8 Cores with 16 threads. Games function a lot differently and are a lot more complex than corporate software, especially when it comes down to *GPU optimization*.


Good thing I'm talking about CPU optimization







The example I gave is universal for every program ever written in any language.


----------



## Cybertox

Dat Colossus Digital Deluxe Skin though.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Yes and yes.


Yea, that is all I played in Lotv beta. Sometimes I would ask if the person I am facing is playing ranked or not, and if they said yes I would leave the game to let them have the win. Sometimes I would UTTERLY stomp them and just before they are ready to scream mercy and gg I would leave. If you do that the stress leaves. The only thing that stresses me is losing when I am trying to better my rank and league.


----------



## DoomDash

I usually left when I played unranked players since I can't be sure they won't just waste my time, in beta anyway.


----------



## FrankoNL

Played Hots a lot, haven't tried LOTV though.

Why do you think it is so much better?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrankoNL*
> 
> Played Hots a lot, haven't tried LOTV though.
> 
> Why do you think it is so much better?


Less cheesy nonsense, more skill. You also can't just turtle up on 2-3 bases and a lot of design issues from HotS have been flat out removed with the economic changes.

Right now there's a few isses with LotV but they're mostly just numbers.

Carriers got over nerfed and now no one uses them.
Lurkers burrow too fast without an upgrade.
Parasitic Bomb overlap is just flat out imba.

Everything else was fixed/is almost perfect.

Im one of the few people who actually likes that the Cyclone is rubbish - terran don't need more new toys, they're already the most complete race.


----------



## DefCoN

Ravagers are still annoying as ****...other than that all seems well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Less cheesy nonsense, more skill. You also can't just turtle up on 2-3 bases and a lot of design issues from HotS have been flat out removed with the economic changes.
> 
> Right now there's a few isses with LotV but they're mostly just numbers.
> 
> Carriers got over nerfed and now no one uses them. *wrong*
> Lurkers burrow too fast without an upgrade.
> Parasitic Bomb overlap is just flat out imba.
> 
> Everything else was fixed/is almost perfect.
> 
> Im one of the few people who actually likes that the Cyclone is rubbish - terran don't need more new toys, they're already the most complete race.


Just that one correction. Still seeing them.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Carriers got over nerfed


Don't wanna say "I knew it", but yeah...








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Just that one correction. Still seeing them.


But do people ever win with them is the question?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Don't wanna say "I knew it", but yeah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But do people ever win with them is the question?


Of course, they are still too powerful if you can get 4+, it's just now there is risk involved.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Of course, they are still too powerful if you can get 4+, it's just now there is risk involved.


Issue I have with this is carriers being op wasn't relate to their hp. It was their release interceptor ability doing too much damage.

What Blizzard did was get rid of arthritis by amputation. It was a knee jerk reaction.

Blizzard has a bad habbit in LotV of nerfing units in a bubble. Case and point: adept nerfs.

90 hp nerf as well as a warp in nerf. Mass people told them the main issue was the warp in time, blizzard didn't listen, over nerfed and now adepts are the protoss reaper.

Then they back tracked and they're still the protoss reaper instead of a needed core unit.

Another example.

Lurkers needed high hp and short burrow time because of 6 range. Then Blizzard buffed the range but kept the survivability. Now that's creating issues.

Call me a bit negative but Blizzard is awful at balance, they get tunnel vision pretty severely. I mean eventually they get it right but some of this stuff is like basic algebra. I'm glad they finally figured out the answer to 1+1 but it should have never taken this long.

I have a feeling this is a symptom of them balancing the game around players who can work around balance issues. Frankly, the korean scene is a different type of beast and while their input is valuble they've proven time and time again that their input causes issues.

I think they should consult people with actual game design background, not pros with a vested interest in having certain constants remain the same. At least for the bread and butter opinions then suppliment it with the korean scene opinions.

Oh and my favorite Blizzard tunnel vision complaint: mules are resulting in overly swarmy bio plays.

But that's what happens when you give terran a way to easily mass minerals and a very strong basic unit that never overkills, gets stim and only sucks vs lots of splash damage/extremely high armor units.

It's not a problem with the marine, this is a problem with the mule being a design disaster. Terran need compensation for lost mining time but the mule isn't a good answer, it's always created issues - and at the highest level of play is still creating issues because it's by far the most swarmy unit composition in the game with units that scale too well.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> the korean scene is a different type of beast and while their input is valuble they've proven time and time again that their input causes issues.


Oh god yes, so much this.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Issue I have with this is carriers being op wasn't relate to their hp. It was their release interceptor ability doing too much damage.
> 
> What Blizzard did was get rid of arthritis by amputation. It was a knee jerk reaction.
> 
> Blizzard has a bad habbit in LotV of nerfing units in a bubble. Case and point: adept nerfs.
> 
> 90 hp nerf as well as a warp in nerf. Mass people told them the main issue was the warp in time, blizzard didn't listen, over nerfed and now adepts are the protoss reaper.
> 
> Then they back tracked and they're still the protoss reaper instead of a needed core unit.
> 
> Another example.
> 
> Lurkers needed high hp and short burrow time because of 6 range. Then Blizzard buffed the range but kept the survivability. Now that's creating issues.
> 
> Call me a bit negative but Blizzard is awful at balance, they get tunnel vision pretty severely. I mean eventually they get it right but some of this stuff is like basic algebra. I'm glad they finally figured out the answer to 1+1 but it should have never taken this long.
> 
> I have a feeling this is a symptom of them balancing the game around players who can work around balance issues. Frankly, the korean scene is a different type of beast and while their input is valuble they've proven time and time again that their input causes issues.
> 
> I think they should consult people with actual game design background, not pros with a vested interest in having certain constants remain the same. At least for the bread and butter opinions then suppliment it with the korean scene opinions.
> 
> Oh and my favorite Blizzard tunnel vision complaint: mules are resulting in overly swarmy bio plays.
> 
> But that's what happens when you give terran a way to easily mass minerals and a very strong basic unit that never overkills, gets stim and only sucks vs lots of splash damage/extremely high armor units.
> 
> It's not a problem with the marine, this is a problem with the mule being a design disaster. Terran need compensation for lost mining time but the mule isn't a good answer, it's always created issues - and at the highest level of play is still creating issues because it's by far the most swarmy unit composition in the game with units that scale too well.


I think my problem with carriers isn't build time, or carrier HP, it's how hard it is to get in range and how the interceptors screw with the AI. If you shift click the carriers quickly but aren't 100% sure you got the carriers and not other units, you could be accidentally wasting shots on targeting interceptors of done incorrectly. They just shred everything in high numbers now, and again the issue might not even be their DPS, but the range they have making things extremely difficult. Anyway that's all just my opinion.

They are my worst nightmare.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Oh god yes, so much this.


That's my line QQ U broke your quote.







I think its because the korean pro scene practices specific strategies and has their chosen career riding on what is done. Imo a lot of korean pros are just inflexible and complain when their inflexibility costs them games. I'd rather have game designers who can theorycraft well come up with ideas and just have korean pros test it out, not factoring in their words but only their actions - and results over a prolonged period of time so they can adjust.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think my problem with carriers isn't build time, or carrier HP, it's how hard it is to get in range and how the interceptors screw with the AI. If you shift click the carriers quickly but aren't 100% sure you got the carriers and not other units, you could be accidentally wasting shots on targeting interceptors of done incorrectly. They just shred everything in high numbers now, and again the issue might not even be their DPS, but the range they have making things extremely difficult. Anyway that's all just my opinion.
> 
> They are my worst nightmare.


What if interceptors couldn't be clicked on? Would that help aleviate the issue? That way you could target fire properly.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I think my problem with carriers isn't build time, or carrier HP, it's how hard it is to get in range and how the interceptors screw with the AI. If you shift click the carriers quickly but aren't 100% sure you got the carriers and not other units, you could be accidentally wasting shots on targeting interceptors of done incorrectly. They just shred everything in high numbers now, and again the issue might not even be their DPS, but the range they have making things extremely difficult. Anyway that's all just my opinion.
> 
> They are my worst nightmare.


Doesn't this make the game interesting though? Because they don't actually mess with the AI only, they mess with the player's intelligence as well. The thing I love most about SC is how different every race is, how it's not just different design for the same basic units.

So in theory it requires a lot of thinking. Maybe you are supposed to have your AI messed with. You are supposed, as a player and a "commander" of sorts, to figure out a solution for this. You are supposed to raise to the challenge, think out of the box. Litter the map with rocket launchers, and hit the Protoss resources, those interceptors die easily and are costly to replace.
If the carrier wants to make it hard for you to target it, you should make it so you don't have to target it, instead of trying to find a way to beat it in its own game, and then complain how it's a design flaw. I don't think it is a flaw. This is why I love carriers, they force you to play weird. And honestly, in an RTS, nothing should be considered weird, as long as it works


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's my line QQ U broke your quote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think its because the korean pro scene practices specific strategies and has their chosen career riding on what is done. Imo a lot of korean pros are just inflexible and complain when their inflexibility costs them games. I'd rather have game designers who can theorycraft well come up with ideas and just have korean pros test it out, not factoring in their words but only their actions - and results over a prolonged period of time so they can adjust.


I'll go a step further and say Korean players are probably not smart enough to be valuable game designers. I mean - their ability consists mostly of learning several dozens of strategies by heart, and then use their superbly trained reflexes to switch between them on the go. It's mostly memory + reflexes. There's very little creativity involved, only a few players can actually improvise.
That doesn't exactly translate into coming up with good new units and features to enrich the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> What if interceptors couldn't be clicked on? Would that help aleviate the issue? That way you could target fire properly.


That would help for sure. Range still might be a bit of an issue, but I'm not sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Doesn't this make the game interesting though? Because they don't actually mess with the AI only, they mess with the player's intelligence as well. The thing I love most about SC is how different every race is, how it's not just different design for the same basic units.
> 
> So in theory it requires a lot of thinking. Maybe you are supposed to have your AI messed with. You are supposed, as a player and a "commander" of sorts, to figure out a solution for this. You are supposed to raise to the challenge, think out of the box. Litter the map with rocket launchers, and hit the Protoss resources, those interceptors die easily and are costly to replace.
> If the carrier wants to make it hard for you to target it, you should make it so you don't have to target it, instead of trying to find a way to beat it in its own game, and then complain how it's a design flaw. I don't think it is a flaw. This is why I love carriers, they force you to play weird. And honestly, in an RTS, nothing should be considered weird, as long as it works


I'm cool with AI getting screwed up but on a small scale. With the amount of interceptors I think it just takes it too far. I think Broodlords suffer from a similar problem but to a less extent. It's interesting that you're for this type of thing when in a lot of ways you are against how complicated SC2 already is. If you can imagine a newbie struggling with macro mechanics, I personally think this is much harder stuff to deal with, and creates quite an advantage for the player on the giving end in terms of skill required.

I don't remember having this issue in Brood War, and I'm not sure why.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> That would help for sure. Range still might be a bit of an issue, but I'm not sure.
> I'm cool with AI getting screwed up but on a small scale. With the amount of interceptors I think it just takes it too far. I think Broodlords suffer from a similar problem but to a less extent. It's interesting that you're for this type of thing when in a lot of ways you are against how complicated SC2 already is. If you can imagine a newbie struggling with macro mechanics, I personally think this is much harder stuff to deal with, and creates quite an advantage for the player on the giving end in terms of skill required.
> 
> I don't remember having this issue in Brood War, and I'm not sure why.


Well, the Carrier is an Ultimate unit, it should be ultimately challenging for the opponent







Also, what I said actually was in favor of avoiding microing vs carriers, and in favor of solutions that can be easy for the non-pros too, like positional play or attrition tactics. So that should lower the skill cap, while maintaining the adrenaline rush


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll go a step further and say Korean players are probably not smart enough to be valuable game designers. I mean - their ability consists mostly of learning several dozens of strategies by heart, and then use their superbly trained reflexes to switch between them on the go. It's mostly memory + reflexes. There's very little creativity involved, only a few players can actually improvise.
> That doesn't exactly translate into coming up with good new units and features to enrich the game.


While that comes across as a bit xenophobic I get what you're saying. Most korean players are just inflexible. They know what they know what they know. Anything outside that little box and mind=blown.

Like yesterday night I was vsing a korean in PvP and did a cannon rush FFE, he barely held the cannons off - at great cost but lost to the follow up since the cannons were just a delay and pressure tactic allowing me to macro up at home. Heaven forbid someone uses their brain and tries something new, the bm storm that followed was amusing though. I got the jist of it but since I don't speak korean and he didn't speak english it was mostly just hilarious to see a storm of symbols hit my screen.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> While that comes across as a bit xenophobic I get what you're saying. Most korean players are just inflexible. They know what they know what they know. Anything outside that little box and mind=blown.
> 
> Like yesterday night I was vsing a korean in PvP and did a cannon rush FFE, he barely held the cannons off - at great cost but lost to the follow up since the cannons were just a delay and pressure tactic allowing me to macro up at home. Heaven forbid someone uses their brain and tries something new, the bm storm that followed was amusing though. I got the jist of it but since I don't speak korean and he didn't speak english it was mostly just hilarious to see a storm of symbols hit my screen.


I didn't mean it in a xenophobic way, just that's the gaming culture they created for themselves, they could be Indian or Scandinavian for what I care


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I didn't mean it in a xenophobic way, just that's the gaming culture they created for themselves, they could be Indian or Scandinavian for what I care


I totally know what you meant, just wanted to draw attention to it because readers could get the wrong impression and I know you're not that kind of guy.


----------



## ronnin426850

Actually, back on the Carrier topic, they were the main reason I switched from T to P, because T's fleet is pathetic.
I love sky play, and T has very little to offer. Medivac is great if you play mainly bio, but if you go bio as support for sky, or mech as suppor for sky, they are more or less useless.
Vikings are supposed to be T's fighter jets, but they are pathetically slow. BCs are supposed to be awesome capital ships, but they can be brought down so easily, they can only be support to mech and not a core unit. Raven is awesome support, really awesome, but if you play air only, it has so little to support - everything is slow and vulnerable.
On P's side you have a pure fighter - Phoenix - fast and fire on the go, and a pure capital ship - the Carrier - tough and has real impact on the gameplay.
Oracle is a good support unit, and Void Ray is an awesome core unit. So P is the way to go for air builds.
If T was able to do an actual fleet - with fast fighters, valuable support, tough capitals, and awesome core, I'd play T all the way.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Actually, back on the Carrier topic, they were the main reason I switched from T to P, because T's fleet is pathetic.
> I love sky play, and T has very little to offer. Medivac is great if you play mainly bio, but if you go bio as support for sky, or mech as suppor for sky, they are more or less useless.
> Vikings are supposed to be T's fighter jets, but they are pathetically slow. BCs are supposed to be awesome capital ships, but they can be brought down so easily, they can only be support to mech and not a core unit. Raven is awesome support, really awesome, but if you play air only, it has so little to support - everything is slow and vulnerable.
> On P's side you have a pure fighter - Phoenix - fast and fire on the go, and a pure capital ship - the Carrier - tough and has real impact on the gameplay.
> Oracle is a good support unit, and Void Ray is an awesome core unit. So P is the way to go for air builds.
> If T was able to do an actual fleet - with fast fighters, valuable support, tough capitals, and awesome core, I'd play T all the way.


Yeah, they really missed out on making BC good with jump. Jump needs to have its energy cost significantly reduced and for it to get a ton of armor. They should essentially be flying Ultralisks without AoE and a warp drive. I always thugh Vikings should be able to land while moving like in the HotS opening cinematic as well.

Speed banshees are quite nice though. Really underrated.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah, they really missed out on making BC good with jump. Jump needs to have its energy cost significantly reduced and for it to get a ton of armor. They should essentially be flying Ultralisks without AoE and a warp drive. I always thugh Vikings should be able to land while moving like in the HotS opening cinematic as well.
> 
> Speed banshees are quite nice though. Really underrated.


Banshees are awesome. If Ravens could cloak, Raven + Banshee would be my favorite combo







Right now can't beat Phoenix + Void Ray or Oracle + Void Ray or Phoenix + Carrier.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll go a step further and say Korean players are probably not smart enough to be valuable game designers. I mean - their ability consists mostly of learning several dozens of strategies by heart, and then use their superbly trained reflexes to switch between them on the go. It's mostly memory + reflexes. There's very little creativity involved, only a few players can actually improvise.
> That doesn't exactly translate into coming up with good new units and features to enrich the game.


That isn't at all true.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I'll go a step further and say Korean players are probably not smart enough to be valuable game designers. I mean - their ability consists mostly of learning several dozens of strategies by heart, and then use their superbly trained reflexes to switch between them on the go. It's mostly memory + reflexes. There's very little creativity involved, only a few players can actually improvise.
> That doesn't exactly translate into coming up with good new units and features to enrich the game.


Yeah not true at all IMO.


----------



## DIYDeath

Well now that beta is over...

LotV is gonna be a mess @ launch. Mule buff is leading to parade push bio, which is near impossible to hold for it's timing (4-5 mins), lurkers are absurd. They're so good you could name lotv to lotlurker because once there's a critical mass of them you will never go ground again...and the hydras shut down the air counterplay since lurkers morph from them.

Liberators are still a bit of a problem, mostly because they come out too early, creating another gimmicky harass option for terran. They also one shot larva.

Photon Overcharge simply costs too little energy, making attacking a protoss almost impossible in the mid game if they have troops.

Terran late game is still horrible and instead of being fixed they gave terrans more gimmicky harass options.

There's some glaring issues that still need to be resolved. But once theyre resolved the game will be fantastic.

Mule should be buffed and limited to 1 per Orbital. That is something that can be balanced and compensates Terran for the lost mining time. Mass mules is just problematic and very hard to balance as they exponentially increase terran's ability to swarm which in turn makes units that are otherwise fine, a little problematic. It also gives a clear harass option to hurt terran, mules make terran far too resiliant in their current form.

Liberators would probably be fairly balanced if there was some sort of artificial time limit on their "siege mode". I'd like to see them have energy and their AtG cost energy per second while sieged up. So the'd be like a stationary Oracle instead of a silly YOU SHALL NOT PASS unit.

Photon Overcharge needs to cost 50 energy or work off of a banked charge system to prevent spammability. It's crazy that you can't dance around a protoss base, taking advantage of bad building placement because Protoss has a few stalkers+a few cannons and then PO's during a crutial mid game push to nip the protoss in the bud before they spiral out of control.

Lurkers just need to be toned down. I'd start with a significantly lower burrow time and a slower projectile speed so there's micro-intensive counter play.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> LotV is gonna be a mess @ launch. Mule buff is leading to parade push bio, which is near impossible to hold for it's timing, lurkers are absurd. They're so good you could name lotv to lotlurker because once there's a critical mass of them you will never go ground again...and the hydras shut down the air counterplay since lurkers morph from them.
> 
> Liberators are still a bit of a problem, mostly because they come out too early, creating another gimmicky harass option for terran. They also one shot larva.
> 
> Photon Overcharge simply costs too little energy, making attacking a protoss almost impossible in the mid game if they have troops.
> 
> Terran late game is still horrible and instead of being fixed they gave terrans more gimmicky harass options.
> 
> There's some glaring issues that still need to be resolved. But once theyre resolved the game will be fantastic.


I would hesitate to say that the game is fundamentally imbalanced, because the metagame is still very immature. It takes time to uncover the problems.

I think in TvP the strength of bio pushes is largely mitgated by early game adepts. I think a protoss that isn't abusing adepts right now probably isn't playing up to the capabilities of their race.

Lurkers are a very strong and relatively cheap siege solution, but with disruptors and liberators I think the tools are there for each race to deal with them. Time will tell how the balance falls out.

Photon overcharge, IMO, is in a decent place, other than the obvious problems with a 1 click defense mechanic. Targeting down the pylons is a good options if you have overwhelming forces, and the range is pretty limited.

Terran late game seems particularly weak in TvZ. Mass ghosts might be viable, but it is hard to imagine how a terran is able to get there.

I would add to your list of potential issues the nydus worm. There are very select few terran builds that can survive a roach nydus all ins, most of them revolve around fast liberators.

I think for the zerg defending liberators is really map dependent. If the liberator can be reached by queens, having four or five queens seems to be a good defense do to the immobility and the limited range of liberators in siege mode. On maps with a lot of open air space it can be a problem because zerg has few anti air options before lair tech.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> I would hesitate to say that the game is fundamentally imbalanced, because the metagame is still very immature. It takes time to uncover the problems.


While I agree, blizzard has shown that they're not really good at this approach. Wait and see has left things like turtle mech and WoL's archon toilet/BL Infestor in the game. They need to be more proactive and start dictating the game states a little more.
Quote:


> I think in TvP the strength of bio pushes is largely mitgated by early game adepts. I think a protoss that isn't abusing adepts right now probably isn't playing up to the capabilities of their race.


The issue is solely the sheer number of bio units du to the mule being a poorly designed compensation for terran losing mining time - and a way to mitigate harass damage.
Quote:


> Lurkers are a very strong and relatively cheap siege solution, but with disruptors and liberators I think the tools are there for each race to deal with them. Time will tell how the balance falls out.


Disruptors don't deal with Lurkers very well because lurkers, if used by a competent player aren't clumped. They do work but only if there's no troops supporting the Lurkers which is rare.
Quote:


> Photon overcharge, IMO, is in a decent place, other than the obvious problems with a 1 click defense mechanic. Targeting down the pylons is a good options if you have overwhelming forces, and the range is pretty limited.


That's great for the early stages but when there's troops+PO it starts to get a little silly because any attempt to focus down pylons results in the army killing you - and due to the snowball effect you cannot let protoss hide behind PO or they'll deathball while PO protects them against a counter attack.
Quote:


> Terran late game seems particularly weak in TvZ. Mass ghosts might be viable, but it is hard to imagine how a terran is able to get there.


Exact opposite applies for the other 2 races. Terran early game right now due to overly swarmy bio is particularily strong, getting to the late game is problematic. Asymetrical design is wonderful and makes the game interesting but these are two extremes that need to find common ground. There shouldn't be a timer saying "I must win within X minutes or I lose" or "I must push back overwhelming odds for X minutes to have a chance". The issue is the asymetrical design is ttaken to such extremes it creates issues.
Quote:


> I would add to your list of potential issues the nydus worm. There are very select few terran builds that can survive a roach nydus all ins, most of them revolve around fast liberators.


I forgot about that, Nydus being healable by queens is a bit silly.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> While I agree, blizzard has shown that they're not really good at this approach. Wait and see has left things like turtle mech and WoL's archon toilet/BL Infestor in the game. They need to be more proactive and start dictating the game states a little more.


Both those problems occurred at the end of WOL and HOTS respectively, so their in attention was do to an unwillingness to patch the game while developing a new expansion. I can understand the sentiment though. I do not at all understand 8 armor ultras, but blizzard has a vision for this game that is just different from everybody else. Sigh.
Quote:


> The issue is solely the sheer number of bio units du to the mule being a poorly designed compensation for terran losing mining time - and a way to mitigate harass damage.


The mule gets a lot of hate, but if you compare the resource mining rate for all three races they are virtually identical at most every stage of the game. The mule gives terran significant advantages in super late game situations in terms of mining rate, but do to the general immobility of late game terran compositions, I don't see it as a serious problem.
Quote:


> Disruptors don't deal with Lurkers very well because lurkers, if used by a competent player aren't clumped. They do work but only if there's no troops supporting the Lurkers which is rare.


Probably the best counter is to exploit their immobility. I don't know whether or not they are balanced or not, but I am pretty sure the design of the lurker works just fine in sc2.
Quote:


> That's great for the early stages but when there's troops+PO it starts to get a little silly because any attempt to focus down pylons results in the army killing you - and due to the snowball effect you cannot let protoss hide behind PO or they'll deathball while PO protects them against a counter attack.


The nexus cannon was a lot stronger in HOTS, and protoss late game a lot scarier. The double and triple photon overcharge can get very silly, and personally I don't think protoss should have ever had an easy defend button. I don't think it will break the design of protoss.
Quote:


> Exact opposite applies for the other 2 races. Terran early game right now due to overly swarmy bio is particularily weak, getting to the late game is problematic. Asymetrical design is wonderful and makes the game interesting but these are two extremes that need to find common ground. There shouldn't be a timer saying "I must win within X minutes or I lose" or "I must push back overwhelming odds for X minutes to have a chance". The issue is the asymetrical design is ttaken to such extremes it creates issues.


That is more or less always been terran's lot. I find it very frustrating, but for a variety of reasons, it had to exist in previous expansions and I expect it probably will persist in LOTV.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Both those problems occurred at the end of WOL and HOTS respectively, so their in attention was do to an unwillingness to patch the game while developing a new expansion. I can understand the sentiment though. I do not at all understand 8 armor ultras, but blizzard has a vision for this game that is just different from everybody else. Sigh.


I think the 8 armor ultras is a good thing, bio should not be viable vs super late game unit compositions as it's a early-mid game unit compoisiton. Terran need to be forced into using more units than just bio because bio is just too good and mobile. Why invest in expensive mech when you can just drop, split, stutterstep and press t? If you lose the bio, no problem. Very easily replaced. Ultras force terrans to not bio.
Quote:


> The mule gets a lot of hate, but if you compare the resource mining rate for all three races they are virtually identical at most every stage of the game. The mule gives terran significant advantages in super late game situations in terms of mining rate, but do to the general immobility of late game terran compositions, I don't see it as a serious problem.


The issue isn't that mules compensate too much but rather the relationship that marines and the mule share. Either in a bubble are not a problem but when combined they create issues. It's one of the reasons in LotV 4 minute bio+combat shield parade pushes is a problem in every leauge. Marines are simply too spammable when the mule is in play.
Quote:


> Probably the best counter is to exploit their immobility. I don't know whether or not they are balanced or not, but I am pretty sure the design of the lurker works just fine in sc2.


The design of lurkers is fine, it's just number tweaks that need to happen. Lurkers burrow so fast you can't focus fire them which is a huge problem. If you catch a positional unit out of position, you should be rewarded and your opponent should be punished. This concept has been a constant throughout sc2 with the exception of the lurker due to the fast burrow speed. The slower projectile speed is just to add counter play in PvZ which is where lurkers are by far the most problematic during their timing window.
Quote:


> The nexus cannon was a lot stronger in HOTS, and protoss late game a lot scarier. The double and triple photon overcharge can get very silly, and personally I don't think protoss should have ever had an easy defend button. I don't think it will break the design of protoss.


Late game protoss is extremely scary now, mass gateway play with some stargate support or robo support is devastatingly good if you attack multiple locations. Depending if detect is even needed you might not need anything but the gateways if you keep up on your upgrades.
Quote:


> That is more or less always been terran's lot. I find it very frustrating, but for a variety of reasons, it had to exist in previous expansions and I expect it probably will persist in LOTV.


Which is why I really do think terran ruin sc2. Zerg and Protoss have a nice dynamic where they can both excel reasonably well in all stages of the game. Terran rely on gimmicky harass of various types, denying scouting so you don't know what kind of harass is coming an d finishing you off with swarmy unit compositions that require vastly different counters than what you were forced to get in order to beat the harass back.

The issue in a nutshell, bar terran lategame being bad is terran's design is too robust. They have too many viable options in LotV which all require different reactions. And that alone still isn't a huge issue until you combine the extreme difficulty of gathering intel from scouting terran as a 1 rax fe wth 1 gas is pretty standard and bar a wall scout you can't tell what type of harass is coming until it's too late to prepare.

It creates coin flip game states. It's multiple small issues that alone are not problematic that combine to create a early-mid game nightmare that has stagnated terran for 5 years.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I think the 8 armor ultras is a good thing, bio should not be viable vs super late game unit compositions as it's a early-mid game unit compoisiton. Terran need to be forced into using more units than just bio because bio is just too good and mobile. Why invest in expensive mech when you can just drop, split, stutterstep and press t? If you lose the bio, no problem. Very easily replaced. Ultras force terrans to not bio.
> The issue isn't that mules compensate too much but rather the relationship that marines and the mule share. Either in a bubble are not a problem but when combined they create issues. It's one of the reasons in LotV 4 minute bio+combat shield parade pushes is a problem in every leauge. Marines are simply too spammable when the mule is in play.
> The design of lurkers is fine, it's just number tweaks that need to happen. Lurkers burrow so fast you can't focus fire them which is a huge problem. If you catch a positional unit out of position, you should be rewarded and your opponent should be punished. This concept has been a constant throughout sc2 with the exception of the lurker due to the fast burrow speed. The slower projectile speed is just to add counter play in PvZ which is where lurkers are by far the most problematic during their timing window.
> Late game protoss is extremely scary now, mass gateway play with some stargate support or robo support is devastatingly good if you attack multiple locations. Depending if detect is even needed you might not need anything but the gateways if you keep up on your upgrades.
> Which is why I really do think terran ruin sc2. Zerg and Protoss have a nice dynamic where they can both excel reasonably well in all stages of the game. Terran rely on gimmicky harass of various types, denying scouting so you don't know what kind of harass is coming an d finishing you off with swarmy unit compositions that require vastly different counters than what you were forced to get in order to beat the harass back.
> 
> The issue in a nutshell, bar terran lategame being bad is terran's design is too robust. They have too many viable options in LotV which all require different reactions. And that alone still isn't a huge issue until you combine the extreme difficulty of gathering intel from scouting terran as a 1 rax fe wth 1 gas is pretty standard and bar a wall scout you can't tell what type of harass is coming until it's too late to prepare.
> 
> It creates coin flip game states. It's multiple small issues that alone are not problematic that combine to create a early-mid game nightmare that has stagnated terran for 5 years.


Your criticism of Terran bio speak more to your personal bias than the state of the game. One and two base bio timings are far from unbeatable or even problematic. There is no special synergy between mules and marines anymore than there are drones and zerglings.

Terran gimmicky strats are very technical and very tactical. Terran strategies have always revolved around the dynamics of the other races, and for that reason terran has always been mid game focused. The challenge with balancing terran is that terran needs to be aggressive in the mid game in order to end up even or ahead in the late game. Bio is not the problem in sc2, the problem is that you need to give the other two races good answers to bio, and also allow terran to transition to more expensive and advanced composition. In LOTV there are plenty of good answers to bio but not very many good transitions out of bio for terran.

I strongly disagree with 8 armor ultras being a good thing for sc2. In HOTS zergs already had the advantage in late game against bio, the problem was that the investment in hive, ultra cavern, 3-3 and plating was so large zerg could only afford to do it if they got significantly ahead. The matchup revolved around terran killing zerg before hive tech and/or infinite money and drones. Zerg needed to take a decisive advantage in the mid game or find a way to get to four and five bases and spam infinity ling bane muta. TvZ, throughout the life of Sc2, has always been considered the most balanced matchup, and this is primarily do to the cost efficiency parody between bio + medivacs and splash damage (mines in HOTS, tanks in WOL) and ling bane muta. 8 armor ultralisk destroys that balance. One fully upgrades ultra can killing effectively infinite marines (600 or so actually, try it in a unit testor). With marauders having two attacks now they do effectively zero and the thors and mines were always a soft counter. From a game design standpoint, the buff to ultralisks makes zero sense - blizzards only aim could have been to make bio completely obsolete once zerg gets hive tech.

Terran still has all the mid game tools they used to plus the liberators and cyclones, so the matchup will balance out. It is only going to force terrans to be even more mid game focused though, because bio is very nearly worthless late game.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

someday I really should finsh SC2 HoTS, even if it means I play some levels on hard or medium


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Your criticism of Terran bio speak more to your personal bias than the state of the game. One and two base bio timings are far from unbeatable or even problematic. There is no special synergy between mules and marines anymore than there are drones and zerglings.


Not even remotely close to true. I'm sorry but you're wrong here. Mules feed the rax which spam the marines. It's why code s players are losing to 2 base combat shield pushes at 4 minutes.

Can you blame me for being biased? Terran for 5 years have pulled the same bio crap. No variation, just spam mmm+a mech unit of their choice until they figured out that they can create impregnable fortresses and sit on 3 bases until they win via attrittion - mostly due to bases containing waaaaaay too many resources.
Quote:


> Terran gimmicky strats are very technical and very tactical. Terran strategies have always revolved around the dynamics of the other races, and for that reason terran has always been mid game focused. The challenge with balancing terran is that terran needs to be aggressive in the mid game in order to end up even or ahead in the late game. Bio is not the problem in sc2, the problem is that you need to give the other two races good answers to bio, and also allow terran to transition to more expensive and advanced composition. In LOTV there are plenty of good answers to bio but not very many good transitions out of bio for terran.


That's a huge chunk of it, yes but the other part is that terran are built around denying scouting so their gimmicks go through sucessful. By time you get a good scout terran have their very powerful gimmick in play - and those gimmicks require vastly different counters to combat.
Quote:


> I strongly disagree with 8 armor ultras being a good thing for sc2. In HOTS zergs already had the advantage in late game against bio, the problem was that the investment in hive, ultra cavern, 3-3 and plating was so large zerg could only afford to do it if they got significantly ahead.


That tells me you're not using spell damage to deal with ultras. Micro'd mines do wonders vs Ultras, same with Ghosts - to a point, then there's just too many ultras to snipe.
Quote:


> The matchup revolved around terran killing zerg before hive tech and/or infinite money and drones. Zerg needed to take a decisive advantage in the mid game or find a way to get to four and five bases and spam infinity ling bane muta. TvZ, throughout the life of Sc2, has always been considered the most balanced matchup, and this is primarily do to the cost efficiency parody between bio + medivacs and splash damage (mines in HOTS, tanks in WOL) and ling bane muta.


I don't know how you form that opinion when Swarm Hosts wrecked Terran to the point of bio or die trying and once they were nerfed Terran started turtling so hard that zerg have to not just outplay the opponent but massively outplay them. TvZ has never been a healthy match up, it's showcased a lot of issues with terran's design being too complete and synergetic which forces hard counters to deal with. Even in WoL you had BL Infestor which messed up the MU.
Quote:


> 8 armor ultralisk destroys that balance. One fully upgrades ultra can killing effectively infinite marines (600 or so actually, try it in a unit testor). With marauders having two attacks now they do effectively zero and the thors and mines were always a soft counter. From a game design standpoint, the buff to ultralisks makes zero sense - blizzards only aim could have been to make bio completely obsolete once zerg gets hive tech.


It makes perfect sense, terran kept going bio bio bio every game. It's been 5 years and it's still bio bio bio. Why? Because bio is incredibly powerful and hard to deal with, doesn't matter that it relies mainly on using the entry level terran units because they're so cheap they can simply be thrown away and massed all over again. Case and point: bio absolutely requires splash damage to deal with, ther is no other counter once they hit critical mass. Ultras force terran players to do something other than bio bio bio. Namely use spell damage to circumvent ultra's armor. Liberators, mines and ghosts all do this. I'd say ravens too but who makes ravens now days?
Quote:


> Terran still has all the mid game tools they used to plus the liberators and cyclones, so the matchup will balance out. It is only going to force terrans to be even more mid game focused though, because bio is very nearly worthless late game.


That in itself is the design issue with terran. Bio is so strong that terran cannot have a strong late game. This is because bio can be massed so fast and easily+counters everything but splash damage once critical mass is achieved+stim. In order for terran to have a stronger late game which I support adjustments to bio need to be made so they can't just spam bio then transition into another composition when bio is faced with enough splash damage to pray on it's ony major weakness.

Now let me ask you this, why is bio so strong? What makes a whole bunch of normally bad units really, really powerful?

The resources that fuel them, without their swarmy numbers bio becomes significantly weaker, especially since it can't just be thrown away due to production capabilities being fueled by those resources being collected at a very, very fast rate.

From a design standpoint the mule is the cause of this. Without a crazy influx of minerals bio cannot be sustained. That's not saying the mule needs to be removed, that's saying tha there's a relationship between mineral dumps and the means to aquire enough minerals to consistently and constantly use said minerals in an effective manner.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Not even remotely close to true. I'm sorry but you're wrong here. Mules feed the rax which spam the marines. It's why code s players are losing to 2 base combat shield pushes at 4 minutes.


But they aren't... At least not with any regularity. I watched very nearly every code S game for five years, one base marine pushes with combat shields isn't a thing and it never has been. It might be in LOTV, but there hasn't been an LOTV code S, and based on my experience playing LOTV I find it unlikely to be an effective strategy.

You might be referring to some two base 5 rax pressure builds in TvP, which has largely been out of style for years but was popular for a time. The build you described doesn't exist. Feel free to link some games.
Quote:


> Can you blame me for being biased? Terran for 5 years have pulled the same bio crap. No variation, just spam mmm+a mech unit of their choice until they figured out that they can create impregnable fortresses and sit on 3 bases until they win via attrittion - mostly due to bases containing waaaaaay too many resources.


That is a gross oversimplification. Just because the composition hasn't changed doesn't mean the strategies have also not changed. There is a huge difference between bio mine builds into three base bio, and three racks openers into three base bio, even if they arrive at more or less the same place.

As for the complaints about no variation... yeah, terrans are upset about that too. If there was any other viable composition you would see it. Blame blizzard on that one.
Quote:


> That's a huge chunk of it, yes but the other part is that terran are built around denying scouting so their gimmicks go through sucessful. By time you get a good scout terran have their very powerful gimmick in play - and those gimmicks require vastly different counters to combat.


It isn't a gimmick strategy. Zerg and Protoss can play a timing and harass oriented style too. Life and Parting do it all the time.

Not to over generalize, but terran builds often don't revolve around denying scouting (although some certainly do). A three base bio mine push in tvz hits at the same time almost every game, and zergs know it is coming. The challenge for zerg is to crush that initial force. The challenge for terran is to force zerg out of position or into a bad fight and take momentum. Neither one is surprised with both make tons of units around 11 minutes and meet each other in the middle of the map. Source; virtually ever TvZ Innovation, Dream, or Maru played in 2014.
Quote:


> That tells me you're not using spell damage to deal with ultras. Micro'd mines do wonders vs Ultras, same with Ghosts - to a point, then there's just too many ultras to snipe.


The point that I was trying to make is that ultras a brutal hard counter to everything that comes out of the barracks, not that ultras are unkillable or unbeatable.
Quote:


> I don't know how you form that opinion when Swarm Hosts wrecked Terran to the point of bio or die trying and once they were nerfed Terran started turtling so hard that zerg have to not just outplay the opponent but massively outplay them. TvZ has never been a healthy match up, it's showcased a lot of issues with terran's design being too complete and synergetic which forces hard counters to deal with. Even in WoL you had BL Infestor which messed up the MU.


There is like five different ideas there. The old swarm host was a problem in TvZ when terran chose to mech, because swarm host was the only good answer to terran turtle mech. Some players, notably snute also used swarm host against bio but it was not common place. The nerf to swarm host was motivated by the units place in ZvP, although it was a problem in TvZ vs mech as well.

When the swarm host was nerfed, terran mech become very powerful. On some maps there just isn't a lot zerg can do. Blizzard chose not to address this balance issue late in HOTS, presumably because they were more focused on LOTV.

Broodlord infestor on WOL was similar in that way; the imbalance of the composition showed up very late in WOL and blizzard was afriad to address it without knowing how the changes would effect the new expansions. I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Not even remotely close to true. I'm sorry but you're wrong here. Mules feed the rax which spam the marines. It's why code s players are losing to 2 base combat shield pushes at 4 minutes.
> 
> Can you blame me for being biased? Terran for 5 years have pulled the same bio crap. No variation, just spam mmm+a mech unit of their choice until they figured out that they can create impregnable fortresses and sit on 3 bases until they win via attrittion - mostly due to bases containing waaaaaay too many resources.
> That's a huge chunk of it, yes but the other part is that terran are built around denying scouting so their gimmicks go through sucessful. By time you get a good scout terran have their very powerful gimmick in play - and those gimmicks require vastly different counters to combat.
> That tells me you're not using spell damage to deal with ultras. Micro'd mines do wonders vs Ultras, same with Ghosts - to a point, then there's just too many ultras to snipe.
> I don't know how you form that opinion when Swarm Hosts wrecked Terran to the point of bio or die trying and once they were nerfed Terran started turtling so hard that zerg have to not just outplay the opponent but massively outplay them. TvZ has never been a healthy match up, it's showcased a lot of issues with terran's design being too complete and synergetic which forces hard counters to deal with. Even in WoL you had BL Infestor which messed up the MU.
> It makes perfect sense, terran kept going bio bio bio every game. It's been 5 years and it's still bio bio bio. Why? Because bio is incredibly powerful and hard to deal with, doesn't matter that it relies mainly on using the entry level terran units because they're so cheap they can simply be thrown away and massed all over again. Case and point: bio absolutely requires splash damage to deal with, ther is no other counter once they hit critical mass. Ultras force terran players to do something other than bio bio bio. Namely use spell damage to circumvent ultra's armor. Liberators, mines and ghosts all do this. I'd say ravens too but who makes ravens now days?
> That in itself is the design issue with terran. Bio is so strong that terran cannot have a strong late game. This is because bio can be massed so fast and easily+counters everything but splash damage once critical mass is achieved+stim. In order for terran to have a stronger late game which I support adjustments to bio need to be made so they can't just spam bio then transition into another composition when bio is faced with enough splash damage to pray on it's ony major weakness.
> 
> Now let me ask you this, why is bio so strong? What makes a whole bunch of normally bad units really, really powerful?
> 
> The resources that fuel them, without their swarmy numbers bio becomes significantly weaker, especially since it can't just be thrown away due to production capabilities being fueled by those resources being collected at a very, very fast rate.
> 
> From a design standpoint the mule is the cause of this. Without a crazy influx of minerals bio cannot be sustained. That's not saying the mule needs to be removed, that's saying tha there's a relationship between mineral dumps and the means to aquire enough minerals to consistently and constantly use said minerals in an effective manner.


Quote:


> It makes perfect sense, terran kept going bio bio bio every game. It's been 5 years and it's still bio bio bio. Why? Because bio is incredibly powerful and hard to deal with, doesn't matter that it relies mainly on using the entry level terran units because they're so cheap they can simply be thrown away and massed all over again. Case and point: bio absolutely requires splash damage to deal with, ther is no other counter once they hit critical mass. Ultras force terran players to do something other than bio bio bio. Namely use spell damage to circumvent ultra's armor. Liberators, mines and ghosts all do this. I'd say ravens too but who makes ravens now days?


You have to put things in proper context. Just because terran builds the same units doesn't make it the same strategy. I would also point out, again, that terran has been largely forced into that composition. Blame blizzard.
Quote:


> That in itself is the design issue with terran. Bio is so strong that terran cannot have a strong late game. This is because bio can be massed so fast and easily+counters everything but splash damage once critical mass is achieved+stim. In order for terran to have a stronger late game which I support adjustments to bio need to be made so they can't just spam bio then transition into another composition when bio is faced with enough splash damage to pray on it's ony major weakness.


I can get behind that. You can't give terran a really good midgame and a really good late game. They aren't protoss







.
Quote:


> Now let me ask you this, why is bio so strong? What makes a whole bunch of normally bad units really, really powerful?
> 
> The resources that fuel them, without their swarmy numbers bio becomes significantly weaker, especially since it can't just be thrown away due to production capabilities being fueled by those resources being collected at a very, very fast rate.
> 
> From a design standpoint the mule is the cause of this. Without a crazy influx of minerals bio cannot be sustained. That's not saying the mule needs to be removed, that's saying tha there's a relationship between mineral dumps and the means to aquire enough minerals to consistently and constantly use said minerals in an effective manner.


Bio is strong because of mobility and because of their cost effectiveness in the mid game. The math doesn't support your claim that terrans get more resources because of mules. Protoss has chrono boost and zerg has the hatchery mechanics. If you watch pro level games and monitor the income tag, you will notice that macro terran builds, protoss build, and zerg builds have virtually identical incomes going into the late game. Download a couple dozen replays from pro games and take a look.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> But they aren't... At least not with any regularity. I watched very nearly every code S game for five years, one base marine pushes with combat shields isn't a thing and it never has been. It might be in LOTV, but there hasn't been an LOTV code S, and based on my experience playing LOTV I find it unlikely to be an effective strategy.


We're talking LotV...why would I be talking about HotS? Doesn't match the context of what you're quoting. It's also 2 base, not 1 base. Still hits @ 4 minutes.
Quote:


> You might be referring to some two base 5 rax pressure builds in TvP, which has largely been out of style for years but was popular for a time. The build you described doesn't exist. Feel free to link some games.


This doesn't match context. LotV kills msot previous builds, referencing them is pointless.
Quote:


> That is a gross oversimplification. Just because the composition hasn't changed doesn't mean the strategies have also not changed. There is a huge difference between bio mine builds into three base bio, and three racks openers into three base bio, even if they arrive at more or less the same place.


There is a difference in how the build plays out but as you point out - they all lead down the same yellow brick road. The road is worn out, we all know bio scales directly with player skill, we all know what it does. It's not fun to vs when you vs it almost every game nor is it fun to watch when you see it almost every tourney for 5 years from almost every terran player. Whether the T player substitutes tanks with mines or liberators or whatever else it always begins the same: mass bio units that put the game on a "hold this crazy effective push" timer. Once the timer runs out T is on the defensive.

It's a massive design issue that's fueled by what this converation is about - the mule and it's relationship with mineral sink units - and how that limits what can be buffed for late game terran because bio is, frankly borderline overpowered.
Quote:


> As for the complaints about no variation... yeah, terrans are upset about that too. If there was any other viable composition you would see it. Blame blizzard on that one.


I do, that's why I'm pointing out the relationship between the marine and the mule, because that's a very large reason as to why other options aren't buffed into being viable, because when bio is that strong it would be completely unfair to the other races for terran to have other just as powerful options.
Quote:


> It isn't a gimmick strategy. Zerg and Protoss can play a timing and harass oriented style too. Life and Parting do it all the time.


You missed the point, terran have a plethora of gimmicky harasses to use, all of which are viable and you can't scout them in LotV until it's far too late becasue terran are designed to deny scouting when it matters most. In HotS and WoL you can usually tell what's going to happen by the unit composition at the wall or if there's a fast CC+bunker at the nat. This isn't the case in LotV.
Quote:


> Not to over generalize, but terran builds often don't revolve around denying scouting (although some certainly do). A three base bio mine push in tvz hits at the same time almost every game, and zergs know it is coming. The challenge for zerg is to crush that initial force. The challenge for terran is to force zerg out of position or into a bad fight and take momentum. Neither one is surprised with both make tons of units around 11 minutes and meet each other in the middle of the map. Source; virtually ever TvZ Innovation, Dream, or Maru played in 2014.


Again, LotV. Referencing HotS builds when discussing LotV doesn't make any sense.
Quote:


> The point that I was trying to make is that ultras a brutal hard counter to everything that comes out of the barracks, not that ultras are unkillable or unbeatable.


Well, don't over rely on the rax then. That's the whole point of ultras. To force terran into a different unit composition when they come out in significant numbers. Small amounts of ultras can be dealt with by Ghosts.
Quote:


> There is like five different ideas there. The old swarm host was a problem in TvZ when terran chose to mech, because swarm host was the only good answer to terran turtle mech. Some players, notably snute also used swarm host against bio but it was not common place. The nerf to swarm host was motivated by the units place in ZvP, although it was a problem in TvZ vs mech as well.
> 
> When the swarm host was nerfed, terran mech become very powerful. On some maps there just isn't a lot zerg can do. Blizzard chose not to address this balance issue late in HOTS, presumably because they were more focused on LOTV.


You're right. And it lead to some pretty game breaking scenarios - and to this day makes late game TvZ one of the worst things to happen in sc2 history, right up there with BL Infestor of WoL.
Quote:


> Broodlord infestor on WOL was similar in that way; the imbalance of the composition showed up very late in WOL and blizzard was afriad to address it without knowing how the changes would effect the new expansions.


That's why Blizzard needs to dictate the meta more than react to it. A lot of these issues are very obvious on paper and in practice. Frankly, I think it had a lot to do with Blizzard wanting to push product by breaking the old one. But that's just a theory.
Quote:


> You have to put things in proper context. Just because terran builds the same units doesn't make it the same strategy. I would also point out, again, that terran has been largely forced into that composition. Blame blizzard.
> I can get behind that. You can't give terran a really good midgame and a really good late game. They aren't protoss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Bio is strong because of mobility and because of their cost effectiveness in the mid game. The math doesn't support your claim that terrans get more resources because of mules. Protoss has chrono boost and zerg has the hatchery mechanics. If you watch pro level games and monitor the income tag, you will notice that macro terran builds, protoss build, and zerg builds have virtually identical incomes going into the late game. Download a couple dozen replays from pro games and take a look.


Again, you're missing the point. You can't analyze these things in a bubble. It's about relationships. I pointed out this relationship already, it's about the mule and cost effective, powerful mineral sinks, not the income itself.

Income means nothing if you can't spend it effectively.


----------



## DIYDeath

Ona slightly different note: I play Protoss and Zerg so I got this fun idea of going lurker ling muta one day. It's a beastly, very hard to beat unit composition. Lings get surrounds so retreating isn't possible. Mutas control the map and pick apart the edges of the army/high value targets like Disruptors and lurkers just shred anything that's ground based in range. If there's stargate in play you just don't get as many lurkers and instead keep them as hydras.


----------



## Cybertox

LOTV is releasing soon, anyone getting it or is excited about it? cause it looks like there is a huge lack of interest. Also, this thread got so boring due to constant balance discussions...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV is releasing soon, anyone getting it or is excited about it? cause it looks like there is a huge lack of interest. Also, this thread got so boring due to constant balance discussions...


The trailer got me very excited. The price got me de-xcited







I'll wait for the price to drop, then I'll buy it. I'm mostly in for the story anyway, so balance discussions don't matter much to me, it's obvious that there are a few people in Blizzard who think that if stats show that matchups are 50-50, then the game is balanced. Meanwhile, everything is a hard counter. But yeah, nevermind that, I'll buy it eventually but not for that premium price.
Also I'll be buying D3's expansion soon and I can't afford to waste so much money on games in such a short period


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The trailer got me very excited. The price got me de-xcited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll wait for the price to drop, then I'll buy it. I'm mostly in for the story anyway, so balance discussions don't matter much to me, it's obvious that there are a few people in Blizzard who think that if stats show that matchups are 50-50, then the game is balanced. Meanwhile, everything is a hard counter. But yeah, nevermind that, I'll buy it eventually but not for that premium price.
> Also I'll be buying D3's expansion soon and I can't afford to waste so much money on games in such a short period


Yeah I am in the same boat as you, looking forward mainly to the campaign. I also cant afford to spend money on video games because there are other things that I need to buy which have a higher priority.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV is releasing soon, anyone getting it or is excited about it? cause it looks like there is a huge lack of interest. Also, this thread got so boring due to constant balance discussions...


I will get it and play the campaign as fast as possible on brutal. Thats for sure.

However I was not able to play the beta more than a few times. Very much like Hots because I have no motivation to do so.
Part of the problem is there was only 1vs1 and 2vs2 available. 3vs3 and 4vs4 is not balanced but it is sooo much more fun to invite some mates and try out all new units, tactics and get an overall feeling for the new races without much pressure.
Archon is very sweet but I already discovered that playing with someone who is worse or is alot better it is not much fun at all. So my plan is if I play archon I will either play for "fun" and not care about issues (which is really hard) or play "serious" and care about every single issue from me and my mate, try to improve gameplay and win as much as possible. And that won't work if your mate is not nearly as good as you. Aaaand I won't play any random archon mode. Never.

40 euro is an okay price If I consider how much I have played sc2 and I will continue with it.

Hopefully alot more people will play it. I want the good old WoL times back where so many events and teamgames were going on.
1vs1 was not going well? Just ask one of the 20 people in your friendlist and go for teamgames and forgot about the lost matches.. that was pretty cool.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> LOTV is releasing soon, anyone getting it or is excited about it? cause it looks like there is a huge lack of interest. Also, this thread got so boring due to constant balance discussions...


Heaven forbid there's discussions about design, where the game is going and other relavent things, other than "I don't like this game".







During a stage of the game where radical changes were being made no less.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Heaven forbid there's discussions about design, where the game is going and other relavent things, other than "I don't like this game".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During a stage of the game where radical changes were being made no less.


I think the total lack of aftermath of any balance discussion led here constitutes to its overall boringness, not the discussion itself, which is pretty interesting


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I think the total lack of aftermath of any balance discussion led here constitutes to its overall boringness, not the discussion itself, which is pretty interesting


Blizzard disregards all balanced discussion everywhere. The only purpose is to learn more about the game, and to be snarky to people online







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Blizzard disregards all balanced discussion everywhere. The only purpose is to learn more about the game, and to be snarky to people online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Blizzard disregards all balanced discussion everywhere. The only purpose is to learn more about the game, and to be snarky to people online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Blizzard reads, they just don't respond. Frankly, it wouldn't suprise me if one of the higher ups in Blizzard read this thread and just didn't ever post. Comapred to TL, Reddit and the Battle.net forums this thread is a bastion of sanity.


----------



## mothergoose729

Blizzard does occasionally seek out progamers and asks them their opinion. Based on the way progamers describe these conversations, and based on the patches implemented, I wouldn't say they place high value on it. My guess is that they rely a lot of statistics derived from ladder and on internal testing.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Blizzard dos occasionally seek out programers and asks them their opinion. Based on the way programers describe these conversations, and based on the patches implemented, I wouldn't say they place high value on it. My guess is that they rely a lot of statistics derived from ladder and on internal testing.


I am confused, do you mean programmers or progamers?


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I am confused, do you mean programmers or progamers?


Progamers.


----------



## DIYDeath

So I got bored, wanted to see how terran handles in the lower leauges since Im freaking awful at them.

Bar TvT I'm 1 rax FEing and spamming the living crap out of marines on like 8 rax, no ups, no gas. Just OC, 8 rax, 1 saturated base and 1 partially mining base (like 7 or 8 scvs).

Just rally to the enemy base, don't get supply blocked and stutter step. If there's banelings just stutter back since it's unlikely they'll have speed at 7 minutes - and if they do - split.

I know marines aren't op but they suuuure feel like it when you stutter step well at anything below plat.

Protoss just flat out lose without sentries. It's hilarious.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So I got bored, wanted to see how terran handles in the lower leauges since Im freaking awful at them.
> 
> Bar TvT I'm 1 rax FEing and spamming the living crap out of marines on like 8 rax, no ups, no gas. Just OC, 8 rax, 1 saturated base and 1 partially mining base (like 7 or 8 scvs).
> 
> Just rally to the enemy base, don't get supply blocked and stutter step. If there's banelings just stutter back since it's unlikely they'll have speed at 7 minutes - and if they do - split.
> 
> I know marines aren't op but they suuuure feel like it when you stutter step well at anything below plat.
> 
> Protoss just flat out lose without sentries. It's hilarious.


It's a lot of fun. Try dropping everywhere next. The moment you put marines in three places and still hit your macro. Watch them crumble under the pressure. Ah... feels good.

Welcome to the dark side.


----------



## DIYDeath

PvT, I'm getting my 1 rax FE into 8 rax gasless parade push to counter colossus builds.

Only thing it really, really sucks vs is chargelot archon and only if there's fast charge.

It's consistently ending games @ 10 minutes. It's hilarious that a lotv build is kinda working a bit in HotS.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> PvT, I'm getting my 1 rax FE into 8 rax gasless parade push to counter colossus builds.
> 
> Only thing it really, really sucks vs is chargelot archon and only if there's fast charge.
> 
> It's consistently ending games @ 10 minutes. It's hilarious that a lotv build is kinda working a bit in HotS.


Oh, I love chargelot + templar archon ^^ My fav style vs T, I do chargelot + stalker + voidray vs Z, and I have no idea what I'm doing in the mirror matchup


----------



## DIYDeath

Arg just had the most frustrating game ever. PvZ vs my friend. He decides to turtle up super, super hard and go pure skytoss. I try to break the cannons. Can't. Just can't. Too many of them. So I deny his 3rd over and over and over, take the map and go air.

Then all of a sudden poof: carrier, phoenix, vr, oracle. I lose map control. I'm like what the hell. Because turtling is getting a significant nerf in lotv. He then says "Just make infestors. Infestors counter air".

Arg. Infestors do not counter anything... Fungal Growth is garbage. I'll be happy when turtling gets nerfed. HotS is a design disaster for zerg ever since the Swarm Host got nerfed. They have no way of attacking into a turtle player.

I can safely say that is the only time I've ever wanted to punch a friend. Suggesting infestors just pissed me off even more and then saying that LotV doesn't nerf turtling when I point out that strategy won't work in LotV...


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Arg just had the most frustrating game ever. PvZ vs my friend. He decides to turtle up super, super hard and go pure skytoss. I try to break the cannons. Can't. Just can't. Too many of them. So I deny his 3rd over and over and over, take the map and go air.
> 
> Then all of a sudden poof: carrier, phoenix, vr, oracle. I lose map control. I'm like what the hell. Because turtling is getting a significant nerf in lotv. He then says "Just make infestors. Infestors counter air".
> 
> Arg. Infestors do not counter anything... Fungal Growth is garbage. I'll be happy when turtling gets nerfed. HotS is a design disaster for zerg ever since the Swarm Host got nerfed. They have no way of attacking into a turtle player.
> 
> I can safely say that is the only time I've ever wanted to punch a friend. Suggesting infestors just pissed me off even more and then saying that LotV doesn't nerf turtling when I point out that strategy won't work in LotV...


Why do you think chain fungals is bad vs skytoss?


----------



## DoomDash

I'm too poor for LotV at launch, and with Fallout 4 I'm going to prioritize that first anyway. Just takes so much effort to give SC2 the attention it deserves.. it's SC2's biggest strength and biggest flaw.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Why do you think chain fungals is bad vs skytoss?


Because fungal has a slow projectile speed and things like Oracles and Phoenix buffer for the Void Rays and Carriers. It's really, really hard to hit reasonably controlled, fast units which threaten your infestors while the rest deal the sustained and threatening dps to your main army.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Because fungal has a slow projectile speed and things like Oracles and Phoenix buffer for the Void Rays and Carriers. It's really, really hard to hit reasonably controlled, fast units which threaten your infestors while the rest deal the sustained and threatening dps to your main army.


What was your unit composition?


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Because fungal has a slow projectile speed and things like Oracles and Phoenix buffer for the Void Rays and Carriers. It's really, really hard to hit reasonably controlled, fast units which threaten your infestors while the rest deal the sustained and threatening dps to your main army.


Ideally you want to be camping next to spores, and you need hydras or corrupter to threaten the phoenix from running in. Some vipers for pulls is also good.

Infestors are part of the solution though. You can't beat air toss with pure brute force.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Because fungal has a slow projectile speed and things like Oracles and Phoenix buffer for the Void Rays and Carriers. It's really, really hard to hit reasonably controlled, fast units which threaten your infestors while the rest deal the sustained and threatening dps to your main army.


Infestor + Hydra to fend off the flies?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Infestor + Hydra to fend off the flies?


Phoenix and Oracles screw over anything that isn't citical mass hydra which takes a lot of bases worth of gas and larva to achieve...doesn't happen vs oracles and phoenix controlling the map.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Ideally you want to be camping next to spores, and you need hydras or corrupter to threaten the phoenix from running in. Some vipers for pulls is also good.
> 
> Infestors are part of the solution though. You can't beat air toss with pure brute force.


I just think the hots economy makes this bs because of mass cannons. It's not an issue in lotv as much because you can actually get into the protoss position before they turtle so hard that it can't be broken. Plus PB kills 1/2 that composition.


----------



## Pandora51

3 base or even 4 base against skytoss should be no issue.
Queens and spores against oracles and phoenix. Later Hydras.

Phoenix are for scouting, minor harass and even more important to prevent mutas. But if he is able to prevent you from taking a 4. base then there is something wrong.


----------



## Cybertox

Updated tile sets are worse than the older ones, see for yourselves:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19938589/legacy-of-the-void-brings-new-and-updated-tilesets-02-11-2015

The new ones look cool though.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Updated tile sets are worse than the older ones, see for yourselves:
> 
> http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19938589/legacy-of-the-void-brings-new-and-updated-tilesets-02-11-2015
> 
> The new ones look cool though.


They are less detailed, but I wouldn't say they look worse. Simpler terrain could be a big improvement. You have to admit that this is a very poor blend, despite being more detailed:
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/x2/X2L94PDVQRAU1446062485195.jpg

This is much more realistic:
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ia/IASWEQKII8SH1446062513456.jpg


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> They are less detailed, but I wouldn't say they look worse. Simpler terrain could be a big improvement. You have to admit that this is a very poor blend, despite being more detailed:
> https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/x2/X2L94PDVQRAU1446062485195.jpg
> 
> This is much more realistic:
> https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ia/IASWEQKII8SH1446062513456.jpg


Yeah the snow tile-set is an exception. The fire set however is significantly worse in the updated version.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> 3 base or even 4 base against skytoss should be no issue.
> Queens and spores against oracles and phoenix. Later Hydras.
> 
> Phoenix are for scouting, minor harass and even more important to prevent mutas. But if he is able to prevent you from taking a 4. base then there is something wrong.


If there's enough Phoenix you get permanently supply blocked. Unless you're making a spore forest, nothing will stop them from coming in and killing ovies and queens. I do this all the time to zerg players in my PvZ.

Then there's the rallying troops together which the Phoenix just mulch as they're in transit.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If there's enough Phoenix you get permanently supply blocked. Unless you're making a spore forest, nothing will stop them from coming in and killing ovies and queens. I do this all the time to zerg players in my PvZ.
> 
> Then there's the rallying troops together which the Phoenix just mulch as they're in transit.


There is really no reason to let phoenix run a muck. Queens and spores are more than sufficient. If protoss is making 8, 10, 12, or more phoenix and zerg doesn't make hydras or corrupters, than that zerg only has them self to blame.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> There is really no reason to let phoenix run a muck. Queens and spores are more than sufficient. If protoss is making 8, 10, 12, or more phoenix and zerg doesn't make hydras or corrupters, than that zerg only has them self to blame.


That's not how it works. Spores and queens do not stop Phoenix. Yes, they can kill Phoenix but only if the player is dense enough to stand in a spore/queen field. Phoenix dart in, kill what they need to and dart out. Since zerg supply flies and queens are high priority this makes phoenix very adept at picking apart the fundamentals of the zerg backbone. Unless you're a bad player Phoenix almost always trade well because losing 1 phoenix and scoring 1 queen kill and 2 ovie kills is always worth it.

Scoring ovie kills also prevents hydras from being made as you are now supply blocked. You're over simplifying things to an extreme here.

If there's hydras you either pick them off as they spawn/reinforce or you dance around them, doing what you were doing before while making a counter unit compsition at home. Like Chargelot Archon or any sort of Colossus deathball play.

Additionally you can attack a base and when the hydras are stretching out to defend it (usually the farthest base) hte phoenix can swoop in and pikc them off as they're moving to intercept or even support in battle with mass lift.

Corrupters are only great vs phoenix if the phoenix fight the corrupters and that's a vaccuum analogy, a protoss who makes pure phoenix is a protoss who is going to eventually lose.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's not how it works. Spores and queens do not stop Phoenix. Yes, they can kill Phoenix but only if the player is dense enough to stand in a spore/queen field. Phoenix dart in, kill what they need to and dart out. Since zerg supply flies and queens are high priority this makes phoenix very adept at picking apart the fundamentals of the zerg backbone. Unless you're a bad player Phoenix almost always trade well because losing 1 phoenix and scoring 1 queen kill and 2 ovie kills is always worth it.
> 
> Scoring ovie kills also prevents hydras from being made as you are now supply blocked. You're over simplifying things to an extreme here.
> 
> If there's hydras you either pick them off as they spawn/reinforce or you dance around them, doing what you were doing before while making a counter unit compsition at home. Like Chargelot Archon or any sort of Colossus deathball play.


You can't stop phoenix from shaving off drones in the early game. You can deter them from having a field day, and you can prevent mass phoenix from getting much done in the mid and late game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> You can't stop phoenix from shaving off drones in the early game. You can deter them from having a field day, and you can prevent mass phoenix from getting much done in the mid and late game.


That's where you're getting things wrong. It's not about the drones. It's about the queens and ovies. Drones are irrelavent when you're supply blocking massively, consistently and building up a gateway/robo army behind it.

Drones are a high priority target but they are replacable and cheap to produce.

Queens are hard to replace and ovies are expensive/limit zerg growth. Drones should be the LAST thing Phoenixes go to kill.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's where you're getting things wrong. It's not about the drones. It's about the queens and ovies. Drones are irrelavent when you're supply blocking massively, consistently and building up a gateway/robo army behind it.
> 
> Drones are a high priority target but they are replacable and cheap to produce.
> 
> Queens are hard to replace and ovies are expensive. Drones should be the LAST thing Phoenixes go to kill.


You shouldn't lose more than one or two queens or overlords to a single stargate phoenix opening. If you do you ****ed up. Its that simple.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> You shouldn't lost more than one or two queens or overlords to a single stargate phoenix opening. If you do you ****ed up. Its that simple.


Who opens single stargate phoenix? If you're making phoenix, you need to pump them. 2 stargates off of 2 bases with a fleet beacon for the upgrade.

When you attack there should be 8-12 Phoenix whith range which is more than enough to ignore spores, snipe multiple queens and constantly kill ovies. After those 12, provided you're using them correctly, you do not make more. You change to a ground unit composition off of gateways, the ups you should have been getting all game long+the tech you get behind the phoenix will counter the obvious tech switch to hydras, make corrupters irrelavent and laugh at the reactionary spore forests.

I don't think you know how to use phoenix properly dude. It's about priority targets and forcing hard counters while buying yourself time to hard counter the hard counter.
When there's 36+ drones obviously drones are not the priority.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Who opens single stargate phoenix? If you're making phoenix, you need to pump them. 2 stargates off of 2 bases with a fleet beacon for the upgrade.
> 
> When you attack there should be 8-12 Phoenix whith range which is more than enough to ignore spores, snipe multiple queens and constantly kill ovies. After those 12, provided you're using them correctly, you do not make more. You change to a ground unit composition off of gateways, the ups you should have been getting all game long+the tech you get behind the phoenix will counter the obvious tech switch to hydras, make corrupters irrelavent and laugh at the reactionary spore forests.
> 
> I don't think you know how to use phoenix properly dude. It's about priority targets and forcing hard counters while buying yourself time to hard counter the hard counter.
> When there's 36+ drones obviously drones are not the priority.


We aren't talking about the same build. Phoenix openers are different from double stargate phoenix. Phoenix openers are a common if antiquated macro startegy while double stargate is not as standard.

The same formula applies though. Spores + queens will get you to hydras or corrupters. You just have to build more of them. You still shouldn't lose more than couple queens and your scouting overlords.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> We aren't talking about the same build. Phoenix openers are different from double stargate phoenix. Phoenix openers are a common if antiquated macro startegy while double stargate is not as standard.
> 
> The same formula applies though. Spores + queens will get you to hydras or corrupters. You just have to build more of them. You still shouldn't lose more than couple queens and your scouting overlords.


Then you've never vs'd someone who uses phoenixes properly. Have you ever vs'd someone who phoenix focuses fire to kill ovies around corrupters and not attack the corrupters, dancing around their range?

Have you ever vs'd someone who darts in with the sole intent of sniping queens and ovies and will not attack drones? What about phoenix play that holds a reinforcing army while chargelots snipe a base?

Phoenix are about decent micro and good decision making. If you have excellent micro, it won't make up for the awful decision making as you're not prioritizing your targets properly and thus are wasting your investment in phoenix.

Have you ever vs'd someone who splits off damaged phoenix to put them in the back of the phoenix ball, or splits their phoenix into two groups and then micros both of them?

All of these things are what constitutes good phoenix use in PvZ.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Then you've never vs'd someone who uses phoenixes properly. Have you ever vs'd someone who phoenix focuses fire to kill ovies around corrupters and not attack the corrupters, dancing around their range?
> 
> Have you ever vs'd someone who darts in with the sole intent of sniping queens and ovies and will not attack drones? What about phoenix play that holds a reinforcing army while chargelots snipe a base?
> 
> Phoenix are about decent micro and good decision making. If you have excellent micro, it won't make up for the awful decision making as you're not prioritizing your targets properly and thus are wasting your investment in phoenix.


I have played my fair share of zerg and watched hundreds of pro games. Throughout the course of the game you are going to continue to lose things to phoenix and there isn't much you can do to stop it. There is no reason phoenixs should do crippling damage at any stage. That is my point.

When playing against mass phoenix there is a progression that happens.

Early game a protoss that is really focusing on getting them out will move up to around ten before zerg can get lair tech. If a protoss has 10 phoenixes, queens with transfuse and spores is enough to prevent them from doing too much damage.

In the mid game a protoss that is really gung ho on phoenix might get as many as 14. At 14 phoenix, zerg should have a two dozen hydras or about an equivalent number of corrupters. With your queens and spores in addition to your units, that is more than enough to hold off reasonable number of phoenix on three bases.

Going into the late game things get trickier, because you are more spread out. A good protoss won't ever make more than 14 or so phoenix because their utility drops off fast. In the event that they do, one set of good change fungals can very quickly win zerg the game. Corrupters are still a good counter, even if they aren't as fast. Queens are too slow and spores hardly matter at this point, so you have to use your army and you have to watch the minimap.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> I have played my fair share of zerg and watched hundreds of pro games. Throughout the course of the game you are going to continue to lose things to phoenix and there isn't much you can do to stop it. There is no reason phoenixs should do crippling damage at any stage. That is my point.
> 
> When playing against mass phoenix there is a progression that happens.
> 
> Early game a protoss that is really focusing on getting them out will move up to around ten before zerg can get lair tech. If a protoss has 10 phoenixes, queens with transfuse and spores is enough to prevent them from doing too much damage.
> 
> In the mid game a protoss that is really gung ho on phoenix might get as many as 14. At 14 phoenix, zerg should have a two dozen hydras or about an equivalent number of corrupters. With your queens and spores in addition to your units, that is more than enough to hold off reasonable number of phoenix on three bases.
> 
> Going into the late game things get trickier, because you are more spread out. A good protoss won't ever make more than 14 or so phoenix because their utility drops off fast. In the event that they do, one set of good change fungals can very quickly win zerg the game. Corrupters are still a good counter, even if they aren't as fast. Queens are too slow and spores hardly matter at this point, so you have to use your army and you have to watch the minimap.


Chain fungal requires the 1st fungal to hit which isn't really something you want to rely on vs units as fast as a phoenix.
If queens are transfusing to keep stuff alive the answer is simple: pick up all the queens so they can't transfuse. You'll have the energy since you're not picking up drones. Same reasoning applies vs hydras. Because hydras will spawn at different bases you can fly in and pick them off.

Hydras only work vs phoenix once you get enough to stop caring about the lift.

I agree, 14 phoenix is really the most you'd ever get regardless if you re-make them or not. Anymore is just overkill and those resources should be put into a ground army transition (like my favorite Chargelot - Archon - Dark Templar or High Templar, DT snipe buildings, chargelots pin and archons, made from DT or HT, depending on how much gas you have banked - bring the splash).

Frankly, most pros don't know what a phoenix is for, they use them improperly vs everything but direct combat units.
For example, I have never seen a pro snipe the 3rd or 4th, leaving the 4th or 5th alive behind phoenix harass and then attack the base you left alone, using phoenix to pick off the units moving to intercept the smaller force, which are probably going to be hydras that are strung out in a line.

Nor have I seen pros do this when they're attacking multiple positions with smaller squads of chargelots or even DT. There's huge misconceptions floating around on how to properly use a phoenix. Phoenix are about preventing zerg growth, not killing their economy, you use that momentum to hard counter while the zerg is stunted.

People could learn a lot by watching Bisu's DT Corsair in BW, the principal is similar - and it carries over well into sc2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Does anybody even go mass oracle?

You can counter mass phoenix with speedlings, he can't have that much of a ground force if he masses phoenix, and lift is useless against lings.

If he masses oracle, mutas. If he masses both phoenix and oracle, hydras. If he has equal phoenix, oracle and ground stuff, banked infestor + roach hydra? Maybe?


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Chain fungal requires the 1st fungal to hit which isn't really something you want to rely on vs units as fast as a phoenix.
> If queens are transfusing to keep stuff alive the answer is simple: pick up all the queens so they can't transfuse. You'll have the energy since you're not picking up drones. Same reasoning applies vs hydras. Because hydras will spawn at different bases you can fly in and pick them off.
> 
> Hydras only work vs phoenix once you get enough to stop caring about the lift.
> 
> I agree, 14 phoenix is really the most you'd ever get regardless if you re-make them or not. Anymore is just overkill and those resources should be put into a ground army transition (like my favorite Chargelot - Archon - Dark Templar or High Templar, DT snipe buildings, chargelots pin adn archons, made from DT or HT, depending on how much gas you have banked - bring the splash).
> 
> Frankly, most pros don't know what a phoenix is for, they use them improperly vs everything but direct combat units.
> For example, I have never seen a po snipe the 3rd or 4th, leaving the 4th or 5th alive behind phoenix harass and then attack the base you left alone, using phoenix to pick off the units moving to intercept the smaller force, which are probably going to be hydras that are strung out in a line.
> 
> Nor have I seen pros do this when they're attacking multiple positions with smaller squads of chargelots or even DT. There's huge misconceptions floating around on how to properly use a phoenix. Phoenix are about preventing zerg growth, not killing their economy, you use that momentum to hard counter while the zerg is stunted.


Well if you pick up six queen with 7 phoenix while on top of a spore you have a problem. Timing is what matters here.

Pros have used phoenixes in ways you have never imagined. The problem is really simple; stargate focused openers are really vulnerable to hydra timings, and it is very difficult to for the protoss to ever get a third and fourth base. In the late game, with zerg massively ahead in economy and with a huge bank, fungals, spore forests, and massive creep spread are serious issues.

A much better startegy for protoss is to open stargate, use an oracle for harrass and scouting and to help secure a third base against ling timings, and then to go into single robo collossus and put pressure on the zerg before hive tech. In the late game colossi, archons, high templar and void rays, perhaps going into tempest to counter broodlords, is much more effective and plays to the weakness of zerg. For the protoss, timing is more important than composition. It isn't about what units you build, its when you have them and how you use them. Double stargate openings don't work as well because they don't slow the zerg down enough.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Well if you pick up six queen with 7 phoenix while on top of a spore you have a problem. Timing is what matters here.


So is proper decision making. You don't attack 6 queens with less than 10 Phoenix because it's a losing battle.
Quote:


> Pros have used phoenixes in ways you have never imagined. The problem is really simple; stargate focused openers are really vulnerable to hydra timings, and it is very difficult to for the protoss to ever get a third and fourth base. In the late game, with zerg massively ahead in economy and with a huge bank, fungals, spore forests, and massive creep spread are serious issues.


That's a strategy issue. If you're letting the zerg get away with uncontrolled growth in the early game then yeah, bad things happen and that's poor decision making on the protoss side of things.
Quote:


> A much better startegy for protoss is to open stargate, use an oracle for harrass and scouting and to help secure a third base against ling timings, and then to go into single robo collossus and put pressure on the zerg before hive tech. In the late game colossi, archons, high templar and void rays, perhaps going into tempest to counter broodlords, is much more effective and plays to the weakness of zerg. For the protoss, timing is more important than composition. It isn't about what units you build, its when you have them and how you use them. Double stargate openings don't work as well because they don't slow the zerg down enough.


FFE, 1 pylon+1 cannon to block the nat/deny any drones that want to expand elsewhere/early warning. Wall the nat off with fat buildings like gateways, cannon behind it while chronoing out probes steadily.

By time zerg expands you have a massive economy lead, roaches won't break a well implemented wall and bane bust all-ins fail vs gateway/forge walls. Scout with a suicide zealot every now and then, adapt accordingly, watch out of nydus play and ninja bases while getting your stargate play ready and ups/tech.

PvZ is about denial of growth, unit composition is irrelavent as long as you can keep denying the zerg growth enough to create timing windows for whatever you feel like doing. In this instance phenix just create a larger timing window by preventing further growth and forcing hard counters.

I'd love to see pros using phoenixes properly. The best I think Ive seen is phoenix lifting friendly key units to save them from banelings (lifting banes is usually a bad idea since they'll damage air units at that point). Other than that it's been typical zig zag micro, kiting at max range, darting in and killing drones when drone kills are irrelavent - or rushed phoenix which is way too much of a pidgeon hole for the investment to not be gimmicky. Have any examples?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Does anybody even go mass oracle?


In LotV, yes. In HotS. Not if they want to win xD.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> So is proper decision making. You don't attack 6 queens with less than 10 Phoenix because it's a losing battle.


So there is no issue for the zerg to defend early phoenix? Yes right and at the time the protoss has 10+ phoenix the zerg has hydras already. So if the zerg knows what to do there is no issue at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's a strategy issue. If you're letting the zerg get away with uncontrolled growth in the early game then yeah, bad things happen and that's poor decision making on the protoss side of things.
> FFE, 1 pylon+1 cannon to block the nat/deny any drones that want to expand elsewhere/early warning. Wall the nat off with fat buildings like gateways, cannon behind it while chronoing out probes steadily.


If you do alot damage in the early game or block expansions long enough you can do whatever you want. Canon into immortal push is even better.

Pool first into 3 hatches works great for zerg and you don't have a big chance to deny that in a proper macro game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> By time zerg expands you have a massive economy lead, roaches won't break a well implemented wall and bane bust all-ins fail vs gateway/forge walls. Scout with a suicide zealot every now and then, adapt accordingly, watch out of nydus play and ninja bases while getting your stargate play ready and ups/tech.
> 
> PvZ is about denial of growth, unit composition is irrelavent as long as you can keep denying the zerg growth enough to create timing windows for whatever you feel like doing. In this instance phenix just create a larger timing window by preventing further growth and forcing hard counters.
> 
> I'd love to see pros using phoenixes properly. The best I think Ive seen is phoenix lifting friendly key units to save them from banelings (lifting banes is usually a bad idea since they'll damage air units at that point). Other than that it's been typical zig zag micro, kiting at max range, darting in and killing drones when drone kills are irrelavent - or rushed phoenix which is way too much of a pidgeon hole for the investment to not be gimmicky. Have any examples?


Phoenix are for scouting and preventing mutas. Not for preventing further growth. Otherwise the zerg is just bad.
It is possible to play a straight up macro game against zerg. French style is a good example.

Progamers are using phoenixes to the right extend already. Banelings are not relevant in a pvz. There are exceptions but thats it.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> So there is no isse for the zerg to defend early phoenix? Yes right and at the time the protoss has 10+ phoenix the zerg has hydras already. So if the zerg knows what to do there is no issue at all.
> If you do alot damage in the early game or block expansions long enough you can do whatever you want. Canon into immortal push is even better.


Can't look at things in a bubble context. If the zerg already has hydras and you didn't scout it - and adjust. That's a l2p issue generated from trying to execute a plan that has been hard countered.
Quote:


> Pool first into 3 hatches works great for zerg and you don't have a big chance to deny that in a proper macro game.


Maybe in lower leauges. When you start vsing daimond and a protoss sees that you lose because they'll turtle up to deny any early harass then counter your greedy expansions by bum rusing you.
Quote:


> Phoenix are for scouting and preventing mutas. Not for preventing further growth. Otherwise the zerg is just bad.


Not even remotely close to true. Overlords fly, queens are pivotal for larva production. My hard drive just failed, not sure if I can recover the replay but this was something that happened last game. 200+ apm zerg got thrashed by phoenix chargelot dt archon after getting supply blocked over and over then luring him into making mutas by purposely letting 1/2 my phoenix die when I scouted spire.
Quote:


> It is possible to play a straight up macro game against zerg. French style is a good example.


Yes it is but that's not really what the discussion is about currently. The discussion is about how to properly use phoenix, which most people don't.
Quote:


> Progamers are using phoenixes to the right extend already.


Progamers in general are not using phoenix properly. Not to their full extent anyhow. Do they micro them well? Yes. Do they formulate ways to make phoenix relavent past their shelf life, when they've been hard countered. Not often unless it's support in a battle.
Quote:


> Banelings are not relevant in a pvz. There are exceptions but thats it.


If you're making lots of chargelots as a mineral dump banelings become relavent.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Can't look at things in a bubble context. If the zerg already has hydras and you didn't scout it - and adjust. That's a l2p issue generated from trying to execute a plan that has been hard countered.


That isn't what he was talking about.

If a zerg makes a lot of hydras off three bases they are doing almost exactly what they planned to do anyway. If a protoss transitions out of stargate play after committing to two stargates and all those phoenixes that early they are much worse off than if they have not made the stargates at all.

There is an ebb and flow to different builds. You can always build different units, but you can't get the time back you spent building the wrong units. Time is the most valuable resource in starcraft 2. You lose a lot of time as protoss when you commit that heavily to stargate that early.
Quote:


> Maybe in lower leauges. When you start vsing daimond and a protoss sees that you lose because they'll turtle up to deny any early harass then counter your greedy expansions by bum rusing you.


That thought isn't coherent. A fast three base for zerg is the most standard part of the ZvP meta. There are dozens of two base timings a protoss can execute, and all of them are capable of being stopped by a three base zerg if they scout well and execute.
Quote:


> Not even remotely close to true. Overlords fly, queens are pivotal for larva production. My hard drive just failed, not sure if I can recover the replay but this was something that happened last game. 200+ apm zerg got thrashed by phoenix chargelot dt archon after getting supply blocked over and over then luring him into making mutas by purposely letting 1/2 my phoenix die when I scouted spire.


As I have been trying to explain to you for some time now, a zerg shouldn't lose very much to phoenix harass.

A phoenix + zealot charge + archon is a powerful timing based style that was popular for a time. It has some serious weakness though, namely protoss has to do critical damage to zerg early, because if they don't zerg will just roll over protoss with three base roach/hydra.
Quote:


> Yes it is but that's not really what the discussion is about currently. The discussion is about how to properly use phoenix, which most people don't.
> Progamers in general are not using phoenix properly. Not to their full extent anyhow. Do they micro them well? Yes. Do they formulate ways to make phoenix relavent past their shelf life, when they've been hard countered. Not often unless it's support in a battle.
> If you're making lots of chargelots as a mineral dump banelings become relavent.


Pro players use phoenixes to their fullest capability. You aren't the first person to play this game. The reason protoss aren't more aggressive with phoenixes is:

1) They are expensive. If you lose one or two phoenixes for a queen it just isn't worth it
2) Timing. A zerg that plays properly is always going to have enough stuff to make going full yolo unattractive
3) Strategy. Protoss typically use phoenix for harrass and scouting. Their job isn't to win the game outright.
4) Timing again. After a certain point a protoss needs to transition out of air units in order to get the units they need to protect their third base.


----------



## Pandora51

Pretty much what mothergoose729 said.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Maybe in lower leauges. When you start vsing daimond and a protoss sees that you lose because they'll turtle up to deny any early harass then counter your greedy expansions by bum rusing you.


Which deny of early harass do you mean? The Zerg goes 15 pool 15 hatch. After a while 3rd hatch.
If the protoss wants to punish that in the early game he needs to go all-in.


----------



## Cybertox

http://www.overclock.net/t/1579582/battle-net-starcraft-2-legacy-of-the-void-launch-trailer


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> That isn't what he was talking about.
> 
> If a zerg makes a lot of hydras off three bases they are doing almost exactly what they planned to do anyway. If a protoss transitions out of stargate play after committing to two stargates and all those phoenixes that early they are much worse off than if they have not made the stargates at all.


A zerg who plans to make a lot of hydras that early is making themselves vulnerable to colossus, archons and storms. So I don't buy it. Hydra Roach is not a smart idea when there's very easy to get hard counters to it for protoss to employ. Espeically if you get too many hydras.
Quote:


> There is an ebb and flow to different builds. You can always build different units, but you can't get the time back you spent building the wrong units. Time is the most valuable resource in starcraft 2. You lose a lot of time as protoss when you commit that heavily to stargate that early.


Which pays off by forcing a unit composition you plan to counter and by allowing you to delay the zerg's growth by killing their larva production and supply. Phoenix buy time to create timing windows. How do you not get this? There's entire strategies built off of this concept.
Quote:


> That thought isn't coherent. A fast three base for zerg is the most standard part of the ZvP meta. There are dozens of two base timings a protoss can execute, and all of them are capable of being stopped by a three base zerg if they scout well and execute.
> As I have been trying to explain to you for some time now, a zerg shouldn't lose very much to phoenix harass.


That's a load of bull. I'm calling you on it because I know it's not true. It forces zerg to react very specifically, it causes spores to be made and if you choose your argets properly you can always score damage.
Quote:


> A phoenix + zealot charge + archon is a powerful timing based style that was popular for a time. It has some serious weakness though, namely protoss has to do critical damage to zerg early, because if they don't zerg will just roll over protoss with three base roach/hydra.


I don't want to be that guy but you're being captain obvious here. Of course the phoenix have to find damage. If you commit significantly to something, be it a timing attack, harass or whatever and it's not effective you're in trouble.
Quote:


> Pro players use phoenixes to their fullest capability. You aren't the first person to play this game. The reason protoss aren't more aggressive with phoenixes is:


I am apparently the 1st one to think about using phoenix to delay zerg growth and force specific, very predictable counters though. Like I said, this isn't a new concept. There are strategies built around this. The game isn't just about build orders. It's about a dynamic relationship between you and your opponent. If you can dictate that relationship you can do all sorts of funky stuff.
Quote:


> 1) They are expensive. If you lose one or two phoenixes for a queen it just isn't worth it


You vastly underestimate how important queens are. Vastly. Less queens=less injects=less larva=less units.
Quote:


> 2) Timing. A zerg that plays properly is always going to have enough stuff to make going full yolo unattractive


You dictate the game state, you don't yolo. You should have exess minerals left over to adapt with as well as reasonable amounts of gas.
Quote:


> 3) Strategy. Protoss typically use phoenix for harrass and scouting. Their job isn't to win the game outright.


Metas are defined by people who don't follow trends. This is nonsense and you know it. Typically doesn't matter.
Quote:


> 4) Timing again. After a certain point a protoss needs to transition out of air units in order to get the units they need to protect their third base.


Unless you've massively over commited to phoenixes and are extremely sloppy with your macro you will have thousands of minerals to do this with over the course of the game.

You really, really don't understand how this works. SC2 at a higher level of play is not about as I'm going to call it "PIKACHU, I CHOOSE YOU". It's about countering your opponent. If you can dictate what your opponent does then you make life incredibly easy for yourself.

This is the difference between players who just follow and players who innovate. There are lots of followers, even in he pro scene. There are few who innovate. sOs is an example of a pro protoss player who innovates and does well doing it.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> A zerg who plans to make a lot of hydras that early is making themselves vulnerable to colossus, archons and storms. So I don't buy it. Hydra Roach is not a smart idea when there's very easy to get hard counters to it for protoss to employ. Espeically if you get too many hydras.


A protoss cannot go double stargate and get collossi and get sentries before zerg hits with a roach hydra force. It just isn't possible. If zerg builds a bunch of units and then sits on their hands for three minutes anything is possible.
Quote:


> Which pays off by forcing a unit composition you plan to counter and by allowing you to delay the zerg's growth by killing their larva production and supply. Phoenix buy time to create timing windows. How do you not get this? There's entire strategies built off of this concept.


There are single stargate openers into two base collossi timings that try and do just that. Those builds don't work off double stargate. You cannot afford storm and hight templar and an army to support them on two base with constant phoenix production at any reasonable timing, it just isn't possible.
Quote:


> That's a load of bull. I'm calling you on it because I know it's not true. It forces zerg to react very specifically, it causes spores to be made and if you choose your argets properly you can always score damage.


That isn't what I said. Read it again.
Quote:


> I don't want to be that guy but you're being captain obvious here. Of course the phoenix have to find damage. If you commit significantly to something, be it a timing attack, harass or whatever and it's not effective you're in trouble.


You are referencing multiple builds and timings with no context. I have to infer what it is your are talking about in order to respond. A minute ago it was sky toss, then it was mass phoenix, and now you are talking about a single stargte build into chargelot archon. They aren't the same thing, btw. Pick one you would like to discuss.
Quote:


> I am apparently the 1st one to think about using phoenix to delay zerg growth and force specific, very predictable counters though. Like I said, this isn't a new concept. There are strategies built around this. The game isn't just about build orders. It's about a dynamic relationship between you and your opponent. If you can dictate that relationship you can do all sorts of funky stuff.


A minute ago you said pro's don't know how to use phoenix. I don't disagree with what you say here, it only seems odd because you tone implies you have been saying that the whole time. You haven't.
Quote:


> You vastly underestimate how important queens are. Vastly. Less queens=less injects=less larva=less units.


I "vastly underestimate" nothing. In context this comment makes no sense.
Quote:


> You dictate the game state, you don't yolo. You should have exess minerals left over to adapt with as well as reasonable amounts of gas.


That is a red hearing. My point is that protoss cannot do significant damage to zerg without incurring significant damage themselves. You chose to interpret that as something completely unrelated. I can't respond to criticisms of points I didn't make.
Quote:


> Metas are defined by people who don't follow trends. This is nonsense and you know it. Typically doesn't matter.
> Unless you've massively over commited to phoenixes and are extremely sloppy with your macro you will have thousands of minerals to do this with over the course of the game.


You might be surprised to learn that strategy and meta are not the same thing.
Quote:


> You really, really don't understand how this works. SC2 at a higher level of play is not about as I'm going to call it "PIKACHU, I CHOOSE YOU". It's about countering your opponent. If you can dictate what your opponent does then you make life incredibly easy for yourself.


In principle I don't disagree, but I am not sure what point you are trying to make. WHICH build, WHICH response, WHICH counters. Pick a strategy because over the course of this discussion you have reference no less than three distinctly different builds.
Quote:


> This is the difference between players who just follow and players who innovate. There are lots of followers, even in he pro scene. There are few who innovate. sOs is an example of a pro protoss player who innovates and does well doing it.


Other than an attempt to pump up your ego or to slight mine, I am not sure what this has to do with anything we are talking about.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> A zerg who plans to make a lot of hydras that early is making themselves vulnerable to colossus, archons and storms. So I don't buy it. Hydra Roach is not a smart idea when there's very easy to get hard counters to it for protoss to employ. Espeically if you get too many hydras.
> Which pays off by forcing a unit composition you plan to counter and by allowing you to delay the zerg's growth by killing their larva production and supply. Phoenix buy time to create timing windows. How do you not get this?


You saying it like the zerg is playing blind. The zerg can react aswell. If there are many phoenix the zerg will play something against it.
For example Ultra style has the advantage that you can defend with queens and spores while having lings on the map. Later you can get infestors. Ultras will counter Colossi and storm and so on.
And Hydra pushes are extremly strong. It can easily kill a 3 base toss.

Roach Hydra is not bad either. You can go into viper against colossi later on and the protoss has to counter it with HTs. But it totally depends on what the protoss is doing. If he is playing mass phoenix you don't build roach ling and go into mutas obviously .

It would be nice to concentrate about one build. First it started about phoenix as skytoss and now we are talking about phoenix, Colossi, HTs and Archons.
And it still stands: You shouldn't take critical damage from phoenix harassment as a zerg especially against skytoss. There are ways to prevent the damage and a good zerg is able to do so.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> You saying it like the zerg is playing blind. The zerg can react aswell. If there are many phoenix the zerg will play something against it.
> For example Ultra style has the advantage that you can defend with queens and spores while having lings on the map. Later you can get infestors. Ultras will counter Colossi and storm and so on.
> And Hydra pushes are extremly strong. It can easily kill a 3 base toss.


The zerg isn't playing blind but zerg only have so many ways to counter something like 2 stargate phenix play. Ultras are not viable at that stage of the game.
Quote:


> Roach Hydra is not bad either. You can go into viper against colossi later on and the protoss has to counter it with HTs. But it totally depends on what the protoss is doing. If he is playing mass phoenix you don't build roach ling and go into mutas obviously .


You go mutas vs phoenix you auto lose. Phoenix decimate mutas.
Quote:


> It would be nice to concentrate about one build. First it started about phoenix as skytoss and now we are talking about phoenix, Colossi, HTs and Archons.
> And it still stands: You shouldn't take critical damage from phoenix harassment as a zerg especially against skytoss. There are ways to prevent the damage and a good zerg is able to do so.


Because it's a dynamic build, you attack with phoenix and force a counter. You then counter the counter and use deduction to assume to optimal path they'll be taking. Which is hydras. Infestors are too gas heavy and are bad on their own+are not good vs units fast enough to dodge fungals all day long, ultras don't work well when you can't afford to get the ups, the tech and have enough hydras to beat back phoenix, nevermind that immortals and void rays decimate them.

You're thinking in basic terms. Good strategies are incremental and can have aspects swapped out when the need arises. Bad ones are static build orders that are inflexible.

FFE into 2 stargate opener while you tech up to more gateway play or robo or even continue with stargate is a diverse strategy with modular components.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> The zerg isn't playing blind but zerg only have so many ways to counter something like 2 stargate phenix play. Ultras are not viable at that stage of the game.


I didn't say ultras against 2 stargate opener but ultra style which is something like lings with double upgrade. It is very versatile.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You go mutas vs phoenix you auto lose. Phoenix decimate mutas.


That is what I said. It was an example.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Because it's a dynamic build, you attack with phoenix and force a counter. You then counter the counter and use deduction to assume to optimal path they'll be taking. Which is hydras. Infestors are too gas heavy and are bad on their own+are not good vs units fast enough to dodge fungals all day long, ultras don't work well when you can't afford to get the ups, the tech and have enough hydras to beat back phoenix, nevermind that immortals and void rays decimate them.
> 
> You're thinking in basic terms. Good strategies are incremental and can have aspects swapped out when the need arises. Bad ones are static build orders that are inflexible.
> 
> FFE into 2 stargate opener while you tech up to more gateway play or robo or even continue with stargate is a diverse strategy with modular components.


Of course it is dynamic but we were talking about your unit composition in one of your games against pheonix from a skytoss! And as it seems you made the wrong units. Why don't you show us the replay?
Otherwise this will go on and on and on and on the same way. Phoenix and oracle will reck eversthing -> Spores and queens are the solution -> no not against 10+ Phoenix -> then hydra and propably infestor is the solution -> but colossi, HT and archon will counter it -> 10+ phoenix into colossi is not possible in time -> then the toss doesn't make 10 phoenix. Its dynamic -> okay then the zerg does not need hydras to defend the phoenix -> but then the toss will build more phoneix from two stargates -> yeah but then you build hydras -> yes and as a result you build colossi -> but we were talking about skytoss -> no the game is dynamic


----------



## SirWaWa

ambient occlusion now works (again) with sc2x64 with nvidia drivers 358.87


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> ambient occlusion now works (again) with sc2x64 with nvidia drivers 358.87


I never understood why anyone would want AO in an RTS like that, it's for added ambiance, but you have no actual ambiance anyway since you're in "god view". It just loads the GPU unnecessarily IMO.


----------



## Pandora51

Speaking of sc2x64 is the performance better now?


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Speaking of sc2x64 is the performance better now?


Yeah its better now but not a huge difference when compared to 32 if any at all, its just that the updated 64 bit client does not perform as awfully as the initial 64 bit client.


----------



## Pandora51

Atleast something. Thank you.


----------



## ronnin426850

On a side note, Overwatch is not free







Blizz flopped hard, they will have a F2P mode 2 years from now, I guarantee it.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> I didn't say ultras against 2 stargate opener but ultra style which is something like lings with double upgrade. It is very versatile.


Double ground upgrades you mean? That doesn't help vs Skytoss. I'm confused on what you're trying to establish here.
Quote:


> Of course it is dynamic but we were talking about your unit composition in one of your games against pheonix from a skytoss! And as it seems you made the wrong units.
> Why don't you show us the replay?


Because there's no point, he turtled up and macro'd hard so I couldn't prevent it due to HotS turtle economy and massive Swarm Host nerf. It's not an issue with the units as much as it's a problem with a flawed economy model and a lack of reasonable AA for zerg in HotS vs a mobile unit. One spirals into the other. I was venting because nothing is more annoying than hearing "well just do this" when their suggestion isn't even remotely viable. telling someone to land money fungals on well controlled phoenix is like asking LotV Terran bio to beat mass Ultras with pure MMM.
Quote:


> Otherwise this will go on and on and on and on the same way. Phoenix and oracle will reck eversthing -> Spores and queens are the solution -> no not against 10+ Phoenix -> then hydra and propably infestor is the solution -> but colossi, HT and archon will counter it ->


This part is right.
Quote:


> 10+ phoenix into colossi is not possible in time -> then the toss doesn't make 10 phoenix. Its dynamic ->


This par is not. You can easily go 10 phoenix into colossus on 2 base if your macro is decent around the 12-14 minute mark (phoenix will be done by 9).

I mention the strategy is dynamic because if there's no hydras you don't get colossus. If there's muta corrupter roach you get chargelot archon dt, etc, etc.

You counter the counter by dictating the viable counter to the zerg player.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Because there's no point, he turtled up and macro'd hard so I couldn't prevent it due to HotS turtle economy and massive Swarm Host nerf. It's not an issue with the units as much as it's a problem with a flawed economy model and a lack of reasonable AA for zerg in HotS vs a mobile unit. One spirals into the other. I was venting because nothing is more annoying than hearing "well just do this" when their suggestion isn't even remotely viable. telling someone to land money fungals on well controlled phoenix is like asking LotV Terran bio to beat mass Ultras with pure MMM.


I agree Hots PvZ is pretty awful right now but you are assuming things based of this single game.

What did you try? Trying to break a 2 base toss with 2 bases? Thats exactly how it sounds to me. You need to go into 3 base. Fast 4th if you don't plan to do any agression.
And for the 12323th time phoenix shouldn't do critcal damage.

This is not LotV.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> This par is not. You can easily go 10 phoenix into colossus on 2 base if your macro is decent around the 12-14 minute mark (phoenix will be done by 9).
> 
> I mention the strategy is dynamic because if there's no hydras you don't get colossus. If there's muta corrupter roach you get chargelot archon dt, etc, etc.
> 
> You counter the counter by dictating the viable counter to the zerg player.


Nopre not true. The zerg will destroy the protoss if going 10 phoenix into colossi on 2 base.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> I agree Hots PvZ is pretty awful right now but you are assuming things based of this single game.


Oh it's not a single game. I do the same b.s. to zerg all the time. I main z and p, I know both sides of he coin in this case.
Quote:


> What did you try? Trying to break a 2 base toss with 2 bases? Thats exactly how it sounds to me. You need to go into 3 base. Fast 4th if you don't plan to do any agression.
> And for the 12323th time phoenix shouldn't do critcal damage.


I did 4 base. I've beaten dai zergs on 8 base with 2 base doing this strategy before - but it depends on the unit composition. If I see hydras and I get something like Sentry Colossus VR behind the phoenix it's nearly impossible to lose unless you don't land your FF properly.
Quote:


> This is not LotV.


If you think you need lotv to pull what I described off then your macro isn't that good. Use chrono on probes consistently and watch your influx of resources allow crazy 2 base all-ins.
Quote:


> Nopre not true. The zerg will destroy the protoss if going 10 phoenix into colossi on 2 base.


If we're talking masters, yeah. Anything under and no. I have hundreds of games to the contrary.


----------



## Pandora51

What do you get for people in the ladder? A Zerg loosing with 8 bases against 2 can't be good. That is not a good example.
2 base all-ins and pushes are strong but NOT that strong.

This is exactly like your previous replays and vods where you trying to show a good strategy but your oponents are clearly not up to the task. For example the pure gateway composition against terran.

And like previously you won't change your opinion and argue against everything. No matter what. Mothergoose729 is not even trying anymore


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> What do you get for people in the ladder? A Zerg loosing with 8 bases against 2 can't be good. That is not a good example.
> 2 base all-ins and pushes are strong but NOT that strong.
> 
> This is exactly like your previous replays and vods where you trying to show a good strategy but your oponents are clearly not up to the task. For example the pure gateway composition against terran.
> 
> And like previously you won't change your opinion and argue against everything. No matter what. Mothergoose729 is not even trying anymore


Well, when you sart beating korean masters and have players who aren't as good telling you what does and doesn't work - when you know better, when you have people analyzing things in a bubble context consistently, when you have people try to dictate uses of units in very simplistic terms and not considering how else they can cause damage - yeah, you start to not listen to others because they don't know what they're talking about.

I mean I had to frame the concept of a modular strategy how many times now? I had to point out that a reasonable amount of phoenix can snipe queens and ovies to consistently supply block and thus limit production/force mass spores...that tells me that a lot of people don't get the relationships units share and it's a reasonable asusmption. It's not like I'm being unreasonable here, I'm literally having to explain the same concepts over and over.

2 base certainly does beat 8 base if you force a counter like hydras and then mass a super hard counter to it.
You try over committing to roach hydra and then find out there's 6-8 3/3/3 colossus on the field with gateway support. No remax is going to save you at that point, you'd have to go all air - and corrupters can't shoot down/mutas are going to get kited infinitely by phoenix if you try that.

Perhaps I just need to stick to the TL forums for sc2 chat. I don't think you guys are completely up to par for in depth strategic analysis that requires considering several factors and the multiple events that happen when they interact - and how that relates to adjusting your strategy on the fly.

I don't mean to be pushy about it but you opened up that door by essentially implying I'm being unreasonably stubborn.
In this specific instance the issue isn't me, it's a lack of understanding from others.

That's all I have to say regarding this. I give up on you guys and sc2. I need to converse with people who can consider these factors.


----------



## Pandora51

There is still no proof from you are playing against high master and korean players. All games I have seen from you in the past were against bad players. Not being able to even play the most basic strats. And Im not the one who is talking about being master and beating korean masters.

And no like so many many times said phoenix shouldn't do critical damage. Phoenix will kill drones, ovis and propably queens but they should never be able to kill so many units that you fall behind for example with constant supply block.

2 base should NEVER win against 8 base. Even if the protoss is waiting for 200/200 and the zerg cannot get rid of his roach / hydra supply he can make vipers. This will counter gateway units and colossi and only HTs can counter vipers properly. You have to admit that Phoenix into Colossi + HTs on 2 base is pretty hard and even IF the protoss is able to do so the Zerg will trade off the army with roach/hydra/viper and remax with mutas or something else.
And no phoenix do not counter vipers.

Im not only implying you are unreasonably stubborn.. Im saying you are nreasonably stubborn.


----------



## ronnin426850

Amazing final. SoS killed it. P FTW!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> On a side note, Overwatch is not free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blizz flopped hard, they will have a F2P mode 2 years from now, I guarantee it.


For real. I'm not even going to bother with it now.

Also!




dat ending doh lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> For real. I'm not even going to bother with it now.
> 
> Also!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dat ending doh lol


HAHAHAHAHA







I liked the part about the Archon. Build time so long...


----------



## Cybertox

Seems like I wont be picking it up on release.


----------



## ronnin426850

God, looking at the replay of the grand final, my guy Polt never stood a change... He's pretty stellar, but these two are aliens! I think even past legends like Stephano would get their donkeys kicked, even if they could get their best form back.


----------



## ronnin426850

The fact that you are allowed to choose "Space clouds" as a main menu background in LotV makes me love Blizzard and forgive all their flaws


----------



## Pandora51

The finals were alot of fun. SoS and Life are two very special players and the last game was soo close.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The fact that you are allowed to choose "Space clouds" as a main menu background in LotV makes me love Blizzard and forgive all their flaws


oh yes by far the best background so far. Didn't like the other ones.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well, when you sart beating korean masters and have players who aren't as good telling you what does and doesn't work - when you know better, when you have people analyzing things in a bubble context consistently, when you have people try to dictate uses of units in very simplistic terms and not considering how else they can cause damage - yeah, you start to not listen to others because they don't know what they're talking about.
> 
> I mean I had to frame the concept of a modular strategy how many times now? I had to point out that a reasonable amount of phoenix can snipe queens and ovies to consistently supply block and thus limit production/force mass spores...that tells me that a lot of people don't get the relationships units share and it's a reasonable asusmption. It's not like I'm being unreasonable here, I'm literally having to explain the same concepts over and over.
> 
> 2 base certainly does beat 8 base if you force a counter like hydras and then mass a super hard counter to it.
> You try over committing to roach hydra and then find out there's 6-8 3/3/3 colossus on the field with gateway support. No remax is going to save you at that point, you'd have to go all air - and corrupters can't shoot down/mutas are going to get kited infinitely by phoenix if you try that.
> 
> Perhaps I just need to stick to the TL forums for sc2 chat. I don't think you guys are completely up to par for in depth strategic analysis that requires considering several factors and the multiple events that happen when they interact - and how that relates to adjusting your strategy on the fly.
> 
> I don't mean to be pushy about it but you opened up that door by essentially implying I'm being unreasonably stubborn.
> In this specific instance the issue isn't me, it's a lack of understanding from others.
> 
> That's all I have to say regarding this. I give up on you guys and sc2. I need to converse with people who can consider these factors.


I can't resist on this last bit... you would probably get banned in TL chat. They run a very tight ship in their strategy section, so do be careful.

Not sure anybody would agree with your point about phoenix but you are welcome to try and create a following.


----------



## Sainesk

Midnight launch here (EST), still deciding if I should pull an all nighter for the campaign...


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Midnight launch here (EST), still deciding if I should pull an all nighter for the campaign...


lol yeah Im thinking about it aswell. But I will play the first 2 hours and decide if its worth to continue.

Launch is in 80 min. here. Hype


----------



## Cybertox

Have fun guys!


----------



## mothergoose729

The campaign aught to be fun. I refused to play the pre release missions because I didn't want to spoil the experience for me.


----------



## Sainesk

I will have to replay them for the achievements since Beta does not transfer anything. I hope there is matchmaking option for the coop missions (not campaign).


----------



## ronnin426850

Have fun and Please no spoilers, I won't be buying it just yet, maybe for Christmas.


----------



## Pandora51

Well official launch gets delayed for one hour in europe. Technical issues.

Made that sweet coffee for nothing!


----------



## Cybertox

So, what are your initial impressions?


----------



## Sainesk

Not bad, if there's one thing Blizzard does well it is cinematics/cutscenes. I'll probably try to finish the campaign after work tonight.


----------



## h0mesauce

Haven't really touched Starcraft 2 in what feels like years. New UI looks pretty sharp to me and I'd have to say I am excited to get back into the game a little bit. Hopefully the campaign is a good time...I felt a little let down with the Hots campaign?


----------



## DoomDash

Sucks it comes out on Fallout 4 day







.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sucks it comes out on Fallout 4 day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Judging by what I have read about Fallout 4, LOTV would have been the better choice.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Judging by what I have read about Fallout 4, LOTV would have been the better choice.


Short term (up to 3-4 years) - yes. Long term though, Fallout has a ton more content, is moddable, and its graphics will improve.
It's like choosing between Skyrim and Wings of Liberty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *electricsheep*


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Short term (up to 3-4 years) - yes. Long term though, Fallout has a ton more content, is moddable, and its graphics will improve.
> It's like choosing between Skyrim and Wings of Liberty.


I dont plays games up to 3 or 4 years. I revisit them from time to time.


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0mesauce*
> 
> Haven't really touched Starcraft 2 in what feels like years. New UI looks pretty sharp to me and I'd have to say I am excited to get back into the game a little bit. Hopefully the campaign is a good time...I felt a little let down with the Hots campaign?


Really? I loved the HOTS campaign. Sara Carrigan was so brokenly overpowered







.

I have played the first couple mission and the campaign feels pretty solid. It's a lot of the same in terms of missions, but really, how much can you expect from an RTS? My biggest complaint so far is that I just don't find the protoss that interesting. It is probably just me, but the characters feel really flat and the narrative has no sharp edges. Feels very dull :/ . Maybe it will get better.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Really? I loved the HOTS campaign. Sara Carrigan was so brokenly overpowered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I have played the first couple mission and the campaign feels pretty solid. It's a lot of the same in terms of missions, but really, how much can you expect from an RTS? My biggest complaint so far is that I just don't find the protoss that interesting. It is probably just me, but the characters feel really flat and the narrative has no sharp edges. Feels very dull :/ . Maybe it will get better.


The story took a turn for the cheesy. WoL was better than HotS in this regard.


----------



## rgrwng

i finished some of the story last night, looking forward to playing the epilogue


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Judging by what I have read about Fallout 4, LOTV would have been the better choice.


Nah, not for this point in my life anyway. Fallout 4 is great.


----------



## 6steven9

Just completed the campaign and it was the best out of the 3 story wise although each had parts that I enjoyed. WOL i just enjoyed playing around with all the dood dads and arcade game on the hyperion, HoTS I enjoyed all the little boss battles they had, and LoTV story and gameplay was really good.

On a side note i know it's not a huge issue since the game runs more then fine on extreme settings but the latest nvidia patch said they finally have sli for sc2 but i can't get it to work. I change it in the nvidia control panel hit apply then it just defaults back to 1gpu. Anyone got this working?


----------



## Pandora51

Finished!

*Spoiler* Do not read if you want to avoid spoilers from the LotV story.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Really good campaign overall. Level design and gameplay was pretty good! As expected.

Difficulty on brutal was hard but enjoyable. Very well I would say.
Alot better than Hots anyways because Hots was so easy.
Blizzard learned from a few mistakes as it seems. The Infestor was so insanely op in Hots and in LotV the dark archon has the same abillity but cannot control big units like ultras and hybrids. Very well done because the Winfestor was the unit to rule them all. No exceptions.
The strongest unit in LotV is the Void Ray. As soon as I got it the missions became alot easier. The last mission was pretty hard through.

There are a few weak points:

- Prologue is crap
- Epilogue is cool BUT WHY is it not connected with the main campaign? All the decisions, units and abillities are not avaliable in this 3 missions. So yeah all units are set and you are not able to play the units YOU enjoyed in previous campaigns.
It feels so dumb.
Also I expected one last battle with all three races in my control. Instead the last and final battle is with zerg.
- The invasion for aiur was rushed. It felt just too fast. There was alot of hype about retaking the protoss homeworld and it didn't live up for the hype. Also not enough drama besides from the zeratul death.
- Charakters are flat. Only Alarak was very interesting in a way. What happned to Artanis btw?
- The End was rushed and even bad. Somehow like the whole story. It was not on Sc:BW Level. Im disapointed. I don't know how to describe it yet..
- The last cinematic is a joke

Edit: I have to correct something. The main campaign and story is not bad. Even better than hots and only epilog was a real disapointment for me.


----------



## mothergoose729

I just finished the main story. It was pretty good. The ending did feel rushed to me. I blinked twice and suddenly it was over.

Great line in the last cinematic though:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



"Without the Kala what would we be?"

Artanis - "Free"

THE FEELS


----------



## Cybertox

How is the campaign in terms of length, is it as long as the two previous campaigns, is it longer, shorter?


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> How is the campaign in terms of length, is it as long as the two previous campaigns, is it longer, shorter?


Including prologue/epilogue there's 25 missions, so a little less but there is a new game mode separate from the campaign, coop missions (aka Allied Commanders), which has an additional 5 different maps/missions. The coop missions is an entire game mode where 2 players team up to complete objectives and gain experience after completing/failing the mission to level up your hero/army for unlocks which in turn will let you play the missions at a higher difficulty/with different playstyles.

Also, the campaign is protoss nostalgia delight - as you go through it you get to play with pretty much every SC1 protoss unit (if you choose to use them).


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Including prologue/epilogue there's 25 missions, so a little less but there is a new game mode separate from the campaign, coop missions (aka Allied Commanders), which has an additional 5 different maps/missions. The coop missions is an entire game mode where 2 players team up to complete objectives and gain experience after completing/failing the mission to level up your hero/army for unlocks which in turn will let you play the missions at a higher difficulty/with different playstyles.
> 
> Also, the campaign is protoss nostalgia delight - as you go through it you get to play with pretty much every SC1 protoss unit (if you choose to use them).


I see. A lot of people are praising the ending, I am glad that this time around Blizzard was able to deliver in terms of story telling and conclusion. Wont spoil it for myself until I buy and play the game.


----------



## Pandora51

hm. I would say pretty much like Hots. WoL might be the longest with its 29 missions.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



btw I have to correct my previous post about the main story. The main campaign and story is not bad. Actually its good and better than Hots etc
What bothers me the most is the epilog and that made me mad for many reasons.


----------



## h0mesauce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> Really? I loved the HOTS campaign. Sara Carrigan was so brokenly overpowered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I have played the first couple mission and the campaign feels pretty solid. It's a lot of the same in terms of missions, but really, how much can you expect from an RTS? My biggest complaint so far is that I just don't find the protoss that interesting. It is probably just me, but the characters feel really flat and the narrative has no sharp edges. Feels very dull :/ . Maybe it will get better.


I agree that playing as kerrigan and how those features were used was nice and well done. I think my complaints are more in line with yours in regards to the story. It felt soft and generic. I think the gameplay and polish is there with the campaigns but the writing hasnt done it for me to this point.


----------



## Cybertox

Bought The Digital Deluxe Edition








LOTV, here I come. The conclusion to this trilogy better be good.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Bought The Digital Deluxe Edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOTV, here I come. The conclusion to this trilogy better be good.


Hope you like it! Please remember to use the SPOILER tag here on forum, I can't wait for the finale myself, and would hate it if someone spoils it







I'll get it around Christmas I believe.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hope you like it! Please remember to use the SPOILER tag here on forum, I can't wait for the finale myself, and would hate it if someone spoils it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll get it around Christmas I believe.


Sure thing, no worries


----------



## Donmige

Is there still an OCN group/clan ?


----------



## ronnin426850

I GOT IT, I GOT IT, I GOT IT, **** SO HAPPY










Pulling an all-nighter for the story!


----------



## tristanbear

I still haven't gotten around to buying any of the others. I only have Wings of Liberty ;_;.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I GOT IT, I GOT IT, I GOT IT, **** SO HAPPY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pulling an all-nighter for the story!


How come did you go from I will get it for Christmas to I got it, in a such short period of time?








Enjoy








I am already enjoying it to the fullest.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> How come did you go from I will get it for Christmas to I got it, in a such short period of time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am already enjoying it to the fullest.


Found it for 26 EUR instead of the regular 40


----------



## mothergoose729

Fo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tristanbear*
> 
> I still haven't gotten around to buying any of the others. I only have Wings of Liberty ;_;.


If you buy HOTS I'll give a legacy key for free.


----------



## Sainesk

Legacy is standalone (don't need the other ones), you just won't be able to play the first two campaigns.


----------



## CoreyL4

This game known to have sli issues? I have sli 970s and one of them isnt being used as if the game doesnt support sli. I drop below 60fps because of that.


----------



## Pandora51

Settings? Ultra?
No no the issue is your weak Cpu! The minimum Requirement for 60 fps is a i5-6600k @ 5.5 ghz.









The truth is there is no sli support and the real bottleneck is the cpu because sc2 uses 1-2 cores.


----------



## CoreyL4

Really no sli support? Wow.


----------



## ronnin426850

Placed in Silver this season, I'm really optimistic about LotV, the changes seem to fit my playstyle way better than HotS







Perhaps I can get up to plat? Here's to hoping!


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Placed in Silver this season, I'm really optimistic about LotV, the changes seem to fit my playstyle way better than HotS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I can get up to plat? Here's to hoping!


Congrats







.

If anybody wants to play they can add me to their friends list.

Mothergoose.851

I am having some fun messing around with random right now.


----------



## Cybertox

That moment when I warped in a Dragoon and he said "I have returned", priceless









I really enjoyed all the new units and their variations that were available in the campaign. However I must say that LOTV was in my opinion the worse campaign out of the three. Mainly because of the awful missions, I didnt enjoy any of them. Always had to race against time or had to defend and endure for a certain period of time and pretty much every mission was like that









So yeah, for me it was definitely the worst one out of the three. I havent played much multiplayer but I like the faster pace, especially the way how quickly the beginning develops in contrast to HOTS and WOL. in HOTS/WOL the first few minutes were really boring where as in LOTV you jump right straight into the action. I tried the new COOP missions mode and didnt like it, its lame and there is nothing interesting about it. The missions are pretty much recycled from the three campaigns. I havent tried the hybrid mode or the tournaments but I dont see them as anything particular. The new Terran units are very nice but I didnt have the chance to try out the new units of the other races yet. To conclude I must say that I feel like the expansion wasnt worth the 60 euros I paid for the Digital Deluxe Edition. It does introduce new content but not enough of it in order to justify such a price. I would have rather used the money to pre-order Just Cause 3. But seeing how I had the two previous expansions, I decided to buy it anyway but it turned out to be disappointing in terms of campaign, its missions and the story-line as well as its conclusion.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> That moment when I warped in a Dragoon and he said "I have returned", priceless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really enjoyed all the new units and their variations that were available in the campaign. However I must say that LOTV was in my opinion the worse campaign out of the three. Mainly because of the awful missions, I didnt enjoy any of them. Always had to race against time or had to defend and endure for a certain period of time and pretty much every mission was like that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah, for me it was definitely the worse one out of the three. I havent played much multiplayer but I like the faster pace, especially the way how quickly the beginning develops in contrast to HOTS and WOL. in HOTS/WOL the first few minutes were really boring where as in LOTV you jump right straight into the action. I tried the new COOP missions mode and dint like it, its lame and there is nothing interesting about it. The missions are pretty much recycled from the three campaigns. I havent tried the hybrid mode or the tournaments but I dont see them as anything particular. The new Terran units are very nice but I didnt have the chance to try out the new units of the other races yet. To conclude I must say that I feel like the expansion wasnt worth the 60 euros I paid for the Digital Deluxe Edition. It does introduce new content but not enough of it in order to justify such a price. I would have rather used the money to pre-order Just Cause 3. But seeing how I had the two previous expansions, I decided to buy it anyway but it turned out to be disappointing in terms of campaign, its missions and the story-line as well as its conclusion.


I agree with your observations, but disagree with your overall impression, probably because I *love* missions where you race against the timer, or you try to hold out a position. I must say the last mission of the Main Story (not the Epilogue), was one of the best missions in an RTS campaign that I have played, along with the assault on Sarajevo from CnC 3.

The investment that I made in the game is about 3x lower than the investment that you made, so that largely justifies your disappointment.

You should find comfort in the fact that this is the very last time you're spending money on SC2, and this game will be played for the decades to come, so at least the Multiplayer will be worth the price









Also you got a lot of extra goodies with that Digital Deluxe


----------



## ronnin426850

OGM HOW do you ever defend zergling rush as Protoss?!?! It's impossible!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> OGM HOW do you ever defend zergling rush as Protoss?!?! It's impossible!


Wall + 1 Zealot?


----------



## Sainesk

Ha, I saw a thread on SC2 general forums with a guy claiming he got promoted from silver straight to GM... wonder if it's really possible

(did get a chuckle out of one of the responses: 'I think the whole SEA server's population can fit in the 200 grandmasters distribution.')


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Wall + 1 Zealot?


On some maps you can't wall in. Also, Z is making 20+ lings.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> On some maps you can't wall in. Also, Z is making 20+ lings.


Do you mean lerilak crest? Veto it.

Otherwise I don't know because no one tried a serious ling rush against me yet. But Beserker -> Adept + MP should work pretty fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Ha, I saw a thread on SC2 general forums with a guy claiming he got promoted from silver straight to GM... wonder if it's really possible
> 
> (did get a chuckle out of one of the responses: 'I think the whole SEA server's population can fit in the 200 grandmasters distribution.')


hm I don't believe it. Only if the system is broken. Why should the system promote anyone more than 2 leagues and why not promote someone who is ranked higher? The mmr shouldn't be high enough anyways.
Atleast in europe lower player counts made it harder to get into the master..


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I agree with your observations, but disagree with your overall impression, probably because I *love* missions where you race against the timer, or you try to hold out a position. I must say the last mission of the Main Story (not the Epilogue), was one of the best missions in an RTS campaign that I have played, along with the assault on Sarajevo from CnC 3.
> 
> The investment that I made in the game is about 3x lower than the investment that you made, so that largely justifies your disappointment.
> 
> You should find comfort in the fact that this is the very last time you're spending money on SC2, and this game will be played for the decades to come, so at least the Multiplayer will be worth the price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also you got a lot of extra goodies with that Digital Deluxe


I like missions where you got to destroy enemy bases or get through something using strategy and a combination of units. Where it is required planning, proper allocation of resources and positioning. I dont like where you have to rush to an objective and where you get constantly distracted by some spawning Xel Naga crap which look like creatures from Warcraft. The goodies included in the Digital Deluxe version are indeed very cool but I wish there was more to it. Could have included more unique skins, the one for the colossus is simply a purifier skin from the campaign.

I have went through the blizzard non-ladder map pool today and came across these maps:

Steppes Of War
Blistering Sands
Xel Naga Caverns
Scrap Station ( I even remember the Battle Report that was played on that map during 2009)
Jungle Basin
Lost Temple
Kulas Ravine
Shakuras Plateau
Twilight Fortress

Pure Nostalgia, those were the days


----------



## mothergoose729

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> On some maps you can't wall in. Also, Z is making 20+ lings.


You need to wall in at your natural ramp and scout. When you take your natural you need sentries and pylons placed for photon overcharge. If you do some basic sim city, and see it coming in advanced, it isn't too difficult to stop. If zerg is one basing hard core, don't be afraid to cut probes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> You need to wall in at your natural ramp and scout. When you take your natural you need sentries and pylons placed for photon overcharge. If you do some basic sim city, and see it coming in advanced, it isn't too difficult to stop. If zerg is one basing hard core, don't be afraid to cut probes.


Ah, the photon overcharge is what I'm missing, actually I often skip the MC altogether







That will change now.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CoreyL4*
> 
> Really no sli support? Wow.


I wouldn't sweat it. I was able to run SC2 on Max with a single HD4870 without any issues. The processor is the focal point.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ah, the photon overcharge is what I'm missing, actually I often skip the MC altogether
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will change now.


Lol, yes you MUST use the borderline broken skill. There is no reason not to.









I really need to get on there and abuse Ultras, lurkers, and ravagers while I still can. Oh!! AND i can bring back the ling infestor play since i can neural parasite colossus and disruptors with ease again due to the range buff.


----------



## Pandora51

I don't want to say Liberators are op but they are very very very strong.
I have to discover some strats in pvt but so far the new 111 is extremly strong and in a macro game only the tempest can counter liberators properly.

Storms should do more dmg against liberators because a transition into tempest is not so easy.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> I don't want to say Liberators are op but they are very very very strong.
> I have to discover some strats in pvt but so far the new 111 is extremly strong and in a macro game only the tempest can counter liberators properly.
> 
> Storms should do more dmg against liberators because a transition into tempest is not so easy.


Recently MC just raped a T just with Staker + Warp Prism


----------



## mothergoose729

Yeah Liberators have serious mobility problems. I think they only work on the offense or the defense, you can't use them in the middle of the map. I am not saying they are weak, because they aren't, but the balance is going to be determined by their place in a particular composition at a particular timing I think.


----------



## Pandora51

Mobility is a big problem. That is true. Too bad my style is very defensive and similar to hasuObs in pvt.
Still I think it is very hard to beat the terran by not engaging the main army and harassment all the time.
Feels very much like early broodlord infestor except you have tempest later in the game.

Is there a replay from this MC vs T game?


----------



## Anti!!

To bring some contrast to the campaign discussion. I feel the campaign was just as good as the others. I really don't know what others are expecting. It is a RTS and can't really do much more than make a maze for your units to progress through.

I think they transitioned to the cut-scenes beautifully and the dialog inside the Spear of Adun was great. I think SC2 has delivered exactly what I was wanting from a 2nd edition of SC1. I am happy as can be with the game and my over all purchase of all 3 games.

My investment in this game has been much more satisfying than most of the other games in which I have bought the whole series. Take the Destiny series for example. House of Wolves broke me and I quit basically. Now, I might be getting back into The Taken King.

I just don't feel the development team of SC2 deserves so much hate. They did great with the game I feel.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> To bring some contrast to the campaign discussion. I feel the campaign was just as good as the others. I really don't know what others are expecting. It is a RTS and can't really do much more than make a maze for your units to progress through.
> 
> I think they transitioned to the cut-scenes beautifully and the dialog inside the Spear of Adun was great. I think SC2 has delivered exactly what I was wanting from a 2nd edition of SC1. I am happy as can be with the game and my over all purchase of all 3 games.
> 
> My investment in this game has been much more satisfying than most of the other games in which I have bought the whole series. Take the Destiny series for example. House of Wolves broke me and I quit basically. Now, I might be getting back into The Taken King.
> 
> I just don't feel the development team of SC2 deserves so much hate. They did great with the game I feel.


Well, so we're 2 vs 1 in favor of the campaign so far







That's nice, I'd like it if SC2 was mentioned more in the media, but Fallout 4 stole the spotlight. Unjustly, if what I've seen can be representative of the game.


----------



## poroboszcz

I have some mixed feelings about the Campaign. I enjoyed playing it, just because it's Starcraft, but I also think like it was the weakest part of the trilogy. Here are my main issues with it:


The story felt shallow and overly childish. Not D3-actually-feeling-embarrassed-playing-it childish, but I think both previous parts, especially WoL were better in that regard. Maybe I'm just getting older or perhaps got spoiled by some recent games with excellent writing and mature stories, but it just didn't feel engaging or interesting at any point.

Shallow characters including Artanis. I mean Jim Raynor, Tychus, Kerrigan were all iconic. Artanis is kind of meh.

Mediocre voice acting, which is somewhat unusual for Blizzard.

Overly repetitive missions. I don't exactly remember all WoL and HotS missions, but I'm pretty sure not all of them were: "Destroy this 3-4 things while the timer goes down" or "Defend the base while the timer goes down".

Now multiplayer is a different thing. It feels like a new game and I really like most of the changes. Can't wait to see the first major LotV tournament.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Now multiplayer is a different thing. It feels like a new game and I really like most of the changes. Can't wait to see the first major LotV tournament.


Yes, way yes.

Not to mention I am getting a Brood War esc vibe with all the UMS games being linked in chat.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I have some mixed feelings about the Campaign. I enjoyed playing it, just because it's Starcraft, but I also think like it was the weakest part of the trilogy. Here are my main issues with it:
> 
> 
> The story felt shallow and overly childish. Not D3-actually-feeling-embarrassed-playing-it childish, but I think both previous parts, especially WoL were better in that regard. Maybe I'm just getting older or perhaps got spoiled by some recent games with excellent writing and mature stories, but it just didn't feel engaging or interesting at any point.
> 
> Shallow characters including Artanis. I mean Jim Raynor, Tychus, Kerrigan were all iconic. Artanis is kind of meh.
> 
> Mediocre voice acting, which is somewhat unusual for Blizzard.
> 
> Overly repetitive missions. I don't exactly remember all WoL and HotS missions, but I'm pretty sure not all of them were: "Destroy this 3-4 things while the timer goes down" or "Defend the base while the timer goes down".
> 
> Now multiplayer is a different thing. It feels like a new game and I really like most of the changes. Can't wait to see the first major LotV tournament.


Voice acting was bad indeed, and Artanis is shallow. However I very much enjoy the lack of cheap plot twists, which makes me overall happy with the story







Missions were ordinary, nothing we haven't seen 20 times already in previous SC and other RTS. But they were enjoyable to me, because they had some sort of suspense to them - you either race the clock or you race your opponent, there were very few moments to catch your breath IMO.


----------



## Sainesk

I think Alarak stood out but yeah Artanis...










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



If he tells one more person they are a different leader than him... I was half hoping he would run into a clone of himself as it was driving me crazy and he seemed to do some stupid stuff, like when that lady protoss tells him if we go into that black hole thingy our ship/we could be torn apart and all die and Artanis is like "great, let's go" instead of sending a scout or pausing to think/consider options


----------



## Cybertox

Endure, templar, our people...
Who the hell wrote the scripts for LOTV? Simply awful. But I was more disappointed by the missions design.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Endure, templar, our people...
> Who the hell wrote the scripts for LOTV? Simply awful. But I was more disappointed by the missions design.


Come on, the script is a masterpiece compared to D3







I almost expected it to be that bad


----------



## Cybertox

I havent played LOTV since I completed the campaign, Blizzard did a bad job with this expansion. Barely any interest in playing it. I am waiting for Just Cause 3 to release and then will start playing it during my free time, but for now I am busy with other stuff.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I havent played LOTV since I completed the campaign, Blizzard did a bad job with this expansion. Barely any interest in playing it. I am waiting for Just Cause 3 to release and then will start playing it during my free time, but for now I am busy with other stuff.


What is so bad about this expansion? Explain yourself!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> What is so bad about this expansion? Explain yourself!


I already did in one of my previous posts.


----------



## NoodleGTS

New games always take time to adjust to... LotV is basically a new game because of the changes in economy and the new units. Well, at least to anyone who's a high level player (not bronze, silver, gold...).

I'm sitting in Diamond right now w. about 64% win rate, was Masters in HotS. Builds are pretty much completely different. I play Protoss FYI.

Against Terran it's backwards. Protoss is the one that has to harass and do damage before Terran can get going. HUGE Colossus nerf (20% on paper, but it's actually much higher when you consider efficiency... takes 2 colossi to kill a Zergling instead of 1, 3 instead of 2 for marines). New Disruptor unit is hard to use primarily because they can dodge low numbers of it so easily.

VS Zerg the warp gate nerf and the economy boost (12 starting workers) makes early aggression completely not viable. So if they go really greedy 3 hatch before pool the only thing you can do is be even greedier and take a super fast 3rd nexus. So it just turns into this expansion fest where neither has any units but can't be attacked because of defender's advantage / lack of units.

PvP has completely changed. The new Photon Overcharge (it's cast on Pylons now) basically eliminates most harass/ allin openers so the games are much more macro in nature. Also, the disruptor ANNIHILATES everything on the ground (it has bonus damage to shields) which means games often turn into Blink + Disruptor vs Blink + Disruptor OR someone rushes straight to air and either gets away with it and wins or is allined and dies. PvP is actually pretty fun, to be honest.

Sooooo yeah.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I already did in one of my previous posts.


Where?
I saw some posts about the campaign. Yeah but what is bad about the expansion besides from the campaign?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NoodleGTS*
> 
> New games always take time t just turns into this expansion fest where neither has any units but can't be attacked because of defender's advantage / lack of units.
> 
> PvP has completely changed. The new Photon Overcharge (it's cast on Pylons now) basically eliminates most harass/ allin openers so the games are much more macro in nature. Also, the disruptor ANNIHILATES everything on the ground (it has bonus damage to shields) which means games often turn into Blink + Disruptor vs Blink + Disruptor OR someone rushes straight to air and either gets away with it and wins or is allined and dies. PvP is actually pretty fun, to be honest.
> 
> Sooooo yeah.


yep it seems like you are right.
PvP is alot of fun right now but also the most exhausting in archon yet. And 1vs1 is not much different because 1 simple mistake can cost you the whole army.
But I like it.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> I havent played LOTV since I completed the campaign, Blizzard did a bad job with this expansion. Barely any interest in playing it. I am waiting for Just Cause 3 to release and then will start playing it during my free time, but for now I am busy with other stuff.


Cybertox, why don't you move on to another game then? I have never seen you like this game. Ever. I've seen you get excited but for a moment and then come back to say you are disappointed. Unfortunately this is the last and final expansion for sc2. I guess you will have to wait for sc3. Then be disappointed again, because I don't think this game will ever be what you want it to be.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Cybertox, why don't you move on to another game then? I have never seen you like this game. Ever. I've seen you get excited but for a moment and then come back to say you are disappointed. Unfortunately this is the last and final expansion for sc2. I guess you will have to wait for sc3. Then be disappointed again, because I don't think this game will ever be what you want it to be.


He's been doing this for months, he just wants some sort of pity party. Probably just ladder anxiety







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> He's been doing this for months, he just wants some sort of pity party. Probably just ladder anxiety
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ladder anxiety is a serious issue, I play ranked every game that I own, SC2 is much more stressing. I'm Master Elite in CS:GO, I feel next to No anxiety when playing. I am silver this season in SC2 and every game is stress non-stop.


----------



## Alex132

SC2 ladder anxiety is real compared to other games









I somehow felt calmer at high diamond / low masters level in WoL compared to Plat/etc in HoTS.


----------



## Pandora51

One reason is that the skill level is alot higher than in WoL. Nearly every diamond player knows how to play most strats very well. As a result mistakes will lead into losses very quick.
LotV does not help in any way. Every mistake could end horribly. For example 2 disrupters will rip you apart in a second if you don't pay attention.

And after all it is 1vs1. You are alone. Unlike in Dota 2 and LoL or other games.

But try *Archon* mode! It is as sophisticated as 1vs1 but you have to play with your mate. You don't face your oppenent alone, you can speak out about strategies, units etc and you are able to divide tasks. In this case you can eliminate weaknesses aswell. So if you are not so good with timings or whatever your mate can take this task while you do what you can do best.

LotV seems pretty great so far. It is the best Sc2 in my opinion but one reason finally there are features that should have been there for 5 years. The Interface, Coop, Archon and alot more. The gameplay itself is very weird but in a good way. It has alot potential and it is alot of fun to watch pro games right now. Just watch Dreamhack. Good stuff going on there.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah, there is no other game like Starcraft. I've just played the first few of my multiplayer matches and the anxiety you get during loading screen as well as the dopamine rush you get from a gg is unlike anything else. Despite not playing for nearly two years it feels like I've never quit.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Ladder anxiety is a serious issue, I play ranked every game that I own, SC2 is much more stressing. I'm Master Elite in CS:GO, I feel next to No anxiety when playing. I am silver this season in SC2 and every game is stress non-stop.


Oh I know, I have it too. Only other game I got that way in was Tekken when I had a promotion/depromotion chance since it would flash that on the screen when you were fighting. That and tournaments.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah, there is no other game like Starcraft. I've just played the first few of my multiplayer matches and the anxiety you get during loading screen as well as the dopamine rush you get from a gg is unlike anything else. Despite not playing for nearly two years it feels like I've never quit.


Agreed


----------



## espn

Even right after Legacy of the Void came out, no one talked in this thread for 2 weeks. Blizzard is seriously lost in the battle with games like LOL, CSGO, DOTA 2.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Even right after Legacy of the Void came out, no one talked in this thread for 2 weeks. Blizzard is seriously lost in the battle with games like LOL, CSGO, DOTA 2.
> http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/


I personally play a lot of CS:GO instead of SC2. Much less stressing and I'm a lot better at it, although I recognize SC2 is the better game. Until Blizz take steps to make their game more "pleasant", they will always be on the losing side.

It's strange how they didn't take one step into making SC2 more friendly, while going waaay overboard with the same aspect in Diablo 3


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I personally play a lot of CS:GO instead of SC2. Much less stressing and I'm a lot better at it, although I recognize SC2 is the better game. Until Blizz take steps to make their game more "pleasant", they will always be on the losing side.
> 
> It's strange how they didn't take one step into making SC2 more friendly, while going waaay overboard with the same aspect in Diablo 3


I think sc2 is too boring until someone is seriously into it and play all kind of strategies and expert level of clicking speed and understanding, while game like lol is fun for first game to expert.


----------



## Anti!!

I tell you what has made it fun for me and that is being part of an active SC2 clan.

However, more to Ronnin's point, yes, something is wrong. What? I don't know, but I love the game. I have a place in my heart for it, but I just don't want to hit play every time.. Then when I walk away from the computer wanting to play real bad. Then I sit down, but dont want to click play. This happens mostly after I just get done winning a game where I feel like I maxed myself out. I may have rocked it and did extremely well, but I worry the next game is going to take my win high and crush it. Then I'll be pissed off. I used to think this would only happen in 1v1 ranked, but I see it happening in unranked even after I have gg'd out of an active 1v1 because the clan is ready for some team games.

In my past experience if I ignore the reluctant feeling of not wanting to play I usually am glad I played anyway. However, the "anxiety" is there. I am trying to control whether I win or lose. Attempting to control something and fail to do so causes anxiety. lol


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Even right after Legacy of the Void came out, no one talked in this thread for 2 weeks. Blizzard is seriously lost in the battle with games like LOL, CSGO, DOTA 2.
> http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/


Im pretty sure in reality the stats are similar but not that extreme. What is raptr? Never heard about it but it seems like a thing. Propably not for sc2 through.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It's strange how they didn't take one step into making SC2 more friendly, while going waaay overboard with the same aspect in Diablo 3


What do you mean with "more friendly"?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Im pretty sure in reality the stats are similar but not that extreme. What is raptr? Never heard about it but it seems like a thing. Propably not for sc2 through.
> What do you mean with "more friendly"?


Making it so it doesn't really matter so much when you die. For example, in D3, when you die, you respawn with all your items and all your money. In D2, you respawn naked and broke, and you have to fight your way back against impossible odds, to recover your gear.
In StarCraft, a defeat affects your momentum a lot. It is much more likely a loss will result in a loss streak, than it is likely a win would result in a win streak.
And that affects ladder placement a lot, and worsens the player's anxiety.

Blizz could make it so the amount of points lost decreases for every back-to-back loss, and the fifth or sixth consecutive loss doesn't cost you anything. And after a few hours the counter resets to avoid abuse of the system.

Just an example of more friendly ladder


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Im pretty sure in reality the stats are similar but not that extreme. What is raptr? Never heard about it but it seems like a thing. Propably not for sc2 through.
> What do you mean with "more friendly"?


Most of the AMD graphic cards users run raptr, so the data from raptr is massive and very well covered.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Most of the AMD graphic cards users run raptr, so the data from raptr is massive and very well covered.


The raptr app is so terribly crappy, it should be considered malware.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The raptr app is so terribly crappy, it should be considered malware.


Yeah I don't think it helps anything but just gives computer or workload so I uninstalled it long time ago, but a lot of people use it and it comes with amd driver so the stats means a lot.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Yeah I don't think it helps anything but just gives computer or workload so I uninstalled it long time ago, but a lot of people use it and it comes with amd driver so the stats means a lot.


hm sorry. Don't have a AMD gpu right now and thought they would use something different. Are these stats from streamers only or from all raptr users?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Making it so it doesn't really matter so much when you die. For example, in D3, when you die, you respawn with all your items and all your money. In D2, you respawn naked and broke, and you have to fight your way back against impossible odds, to recover your gear.
> In StarCraft, a defeat affects your momentum a lot. It is much more likely a loss will result in a loss streak, than it is likely a win would result in a win streak.
> And that affects ladder placement a lot, and worsens the player's anxiety.
> 
> Blizz could make it so the amount of points lost decreases for every back-to-back loss, and the fifth or sixth consecutive loss doesn't cost you anything. And after a few hours the counter resets to avoid abuse of the system.
> 
> Just an example of more friendly ladder


D3 is a completly different game. Propably not the best comparison. Btw in d2 you loose only exp but keep the gear if you relog. Buuut I know what you mean









Hmm good idea but Im not so sure about it because would it really help? Like anti!! already said even unranked leads to some bad feelings or anxiety. Im pretty sure he is not the only one and I think loosing a or a few 1vs1 games is in itself already bad for most players (especially if you are alone). The lost points are not as bad as facing defeat. (correct me If Im wrong).

I don't know if blizzard can do anything about it except for building up the community by encouraging clans, teamgames, tournaments, coop, strong chat groups etc
LotV has alot of it already but Sc2 is 5 years old..


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> hm sorry. Don't have a AMD gpu right now and thought they would use something different. Are these stats from streamers only or from all raptr users?
> 
> D3 is a completly different game. Propably not the best comparison. Btw in d2 you loose only exp but keep the gear if you relog. Buuut I know what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm good idea but Im not so sure about it because would it really help? Like anti!! already said even unranked leads to some bad feelings or anxiety. Im pretty sure he is not the only one and I think loosing a or a few 1vs1 games is in itself already bad for most players (especially if you are alone). The lost points are not as bad as facing defeat. (correct me If Im wrong).
> 
> I don't know if blizzard can do anything about it except for building up the community by encouraging clans, teamgames, tournaments, coop, strong chat groups etc
> LotV has alot of it already but Sc2 is 5 years old..


Should be all users, not just streamers for sure.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> hm sorry. Don't have a AMD gpu right now and thought they would use something different. Are these stats from streamers only or from all raptr users?
> 
> D3 is a completly different game. Propably not the best comparison. Btw in d2 you loose only exp but keep the gear if you relog. Buuut I know what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm good idea but Im not so sure about it because would it really help? Like anti!! already said even unranked leads to some bad feelings or anxiety. Im pretty sure he is not the only one and I think loosing a or a few 1vs1 games is in itself already bad for most players (especially if you are alone). The lost points are not as bad as facing defeat. (correct me If Im wrong).
> 
> I don't know if blizzard can do anything about it except for building up the community by encouraging clans, teamgames, tournaments, coop, strong chat groups etc
> LotV has alot of it already but Sc2 is 5 years old..


Unfortunately I believe we will have to accept some ladder anxiety. It comes with trying to be the best. (Or win all the time.) If a person is trying to rise in the ranks they are attempting to better themselves and the fact that someone else you play beats you frustrates you. Then if it happens over and over it is like blatantly saying you aren't good enough. Some deal with this differently. Some give up and others, me, attempt to conquer this by investing more and more time to be the best you can be, or at least obtain your goals. BUT due to real life demanding a person do other things you can't really invest in the game. This becomes the vicious cycle.

I am usually ok with being mediocre until I play some douche bag that trash talks and wins a team game or something, but isn't good. Then I wish I was my former self when I played half as much as the douche bag does and I would 1v1 him and shut his mouth for him.

***I usually bluff them out anyway by challenging them and they see my record history and won't play me. lol***


----------



## ronnin426850

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Anti!!

Merry Christmas to you too Ronnin.

This is a good video showing the patch history of SC1. It brings back some needed clarification that even sc1 wasn't balanced, but after 10 years they eventually perfected it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ijwtGCaRg


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Merry Christmas to you too Ronnin.
> 
> This is a good video showing the patch history of SC1. It brings back some needed clarification that even sc1 wasn't balanced, but after 10 years they eventually perfected it.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ijwtGCaRg


Thank you for bringing that up. So I was a bit curious and looked into the patch notes for starcraft 1. wiki.teamliquid

Blizzard changed ALOT in some patches. Especially in 1.04 and 1.08.
It seems like they observed the game for a while, thought about it and changed everything they thought would be necessary. Of course Im assuming that based of some old notes.

In Starcraft 2 it takes blizzard sooo long to do anything and if they do something it is only a minor change. They are so cautious and unsure about some aspects and delay some of the changes for a long time. How long took it blizzard to change something in the winfestor / broodlord or swarmhost time?

Now it continues. There is no actual information about the new ladder system, new maps and balance changes in the new season.
And that is not everything. Did you know when the season would end? No? Me neither because they said 01.05.2016 at the start. In between they said something like an earlier season end for the new ladder system and then the information in the game stated 01.31.2016 but season lock would be this year.
Today the ladder got locked. Great.

Don't get me wrong I still think LotV is the best Starcraft 2 yet but for now Blizzard makes me mad again..


----------



## poroboszcz

Is anyone watching MC's stream right now? Some insane stuff going on.


----------



## espn

What is the queuing time for a ranked game now, and how about the queue time before this final exspension comes out?


----------



## SirWaWa

question for you guys, what's your vram usage?

for me with 'extreme' settings I've hit up to 2.2GB at 1080 and if it's any difference i'm running the x64 version

on another note, doesn't karax kinda of look like zoidberg? (sort of...)


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> question for you guys, what's your vram usage?
> 
> for me with 'extreme' settings I've hit up to 2.2GB at 1080 and if it's any difference i'm running the x64 version
> 
> on another note, doesn't karax kinda of look like zoidberg? (sort of...)


Dont expect they put good amount of resource on improving or developing, because this is a fail project already with so few players as a new game comparing to top game like Lol or csgo. As a company they can just move on and gamble on another new game instead of caring the dead project.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Dont expect they put good amount of resource on improving or developing, because this is a fail project already with so few players as a new game comparing to top game like Lol or csgo. As a company they can just move on and gamble on another new game instead of caring the dead project.


I completely disagree with the assumption of "so few" players playing. Not near as many as LoL, csgo, or dota? maybe not. However, so few, no way.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Dont expect they put good amount of resource on improving or developing, because this is a fail project already with so few players as a new game comparing to top game like Lol or csgo. As a company they can just move on and gamble on another new game instead of caring the dead project.


How does that even answer his question?

I haven't monitored V-RAM usage while playing LOTV but 2.2 seems very high for a game like SC2.


----------



## poroboszcz

So anyone here still playing? I've been doing some laddering last week and made it to high plat, which is not too bad I guess. I'm not sure whether it's lack of practice but I feel like the game is much harder now. Since the changes to economy it takes half the time it took in HotS to go to like 3 fully saturated bases, which means you have half the time to execute the same build and there's much more resources that have to be spent. Plus there are more small skirmishes and harassment which seems to make the game much more fast paced.

Also what do you guys think about new WCS changes? I think it sucks that most tournaments won't have any Koreans in them.


----------



## Cybertox

The game is dead to me, LOTV was a big disappointment.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The game is dead to me, LOTV was a big disappointment.


Do you ever like anything, ever?


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Without fog of war the game would be too technical.


So does that mean seeing this game handling stuff like this ever from the server's side is really close to zero or do i understand something wrong? I mean, i claimed i'm not going to play but i actually love this game and will probably play again, just right now i feel a bit done with it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> The game is dead to me, LOTV was a big disappointment.


Yep. Completely killed the game for me as well. Not sure if i'll ever be playing again. I kinda stopped as more information came out for LotV. Oh well.

Picked up CoH2 and it is imho a very enjoyable ww2 rts game. Hope that gets more attention as well, whould love to see that game grow.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> So anyone here still playing? I've been doing some laddering last week and made it to high plat, which is not too bad I guess. I'm not sure whether it's lack of practice but I feel like the game is much harder now. Since the changes to economy it takes half the time it took in HotS to go to like 3 fully saturated bases, which means you have half the time to execute the same build and there's much more resources that have to be spent. Plus there are more small skirmishes and harassment which seems to make the game much more fast paced.
> 
> Also what do you guys think about new WCS changes? I think it sucks that most tournaments won't have any Koreans in them.


Yea, I am still playing it. Made it to diamond and still have a 60% win ratio. However, I am seeing that won't last long as I am having to learn another metagame in diamond.

I agree with you on the faster pace. I started getting more success when I pressure, do damage, macro behind it, do more damage, or crush a counter attack.

I also find the overall game more fun and with the UI changes in chats etc it feels more broodwar esc. I really don't appreciate people saying it is a dead games cause it is not even close to the truth.. I feel the game has had its final iteration and will now start to be refined and have a chance to become another legend.

I caught myself sharing replays back and forth with another aspiring masters player who took a game off a GM. We laughed and goofed off with replays for a while like the broodwar days. Thankfully im part of a clan that never stopped playing since broodwar. I am having a blast and the skill level has increased so much. I never used to see players with over 200 apm in gold before now. I know APM is over rated, but that crap used to be 90 at best in gold even in hots. I hover around 200 apm and 135 epm normally and almost each 1v1 person i face matches that. I also have finally gotten past most my ladder anxiety and have a mind set to just play to get good with practice.

As for the koreans being bared from tournaments. Im on the fence. It will encourage others to continue playing as I feel it was korean dominated and discouraged any good foreign players. However, I like seeing koreans play in competitive scenes. I really dont know. However, I do know I did not like seeing the top 8 of the US or european finals for wcs being all korean. What is up with that?

The truly sad part is there are no good foreigners anymore who can compete. They just don't practice enough, think outside be box enough, etc. They don't treat it like a job like Koreans do. It really saddens me and THAT is the one part i feel the game IS dead in.


----------



## DIYDeath

Well I was doing pretty good as both protoss and zerg+terran on certain maps, was vsing high plat consistently and even winning...then marinelord showed decent terrans how to play their race.

Now it's nothing but XvT and T always does the same things. Frankly, I think Im done with LotV until blizzard patches this nonsense, I don't mind losing but liberators are just terribly imba with tanks and mines so I'm practically forced to all-in every game before that unit composition happens. If I don't they just zone me away from the army and I'm forced to base trade if we're on even-ish supply/economy.

Then there's the whole silliness of PvZ right now where photon oercharge makes protoss immune to any aggression with those silly pocket expansion maps so they can tech straight to voids and go adept void ray phoenix or 6 minute push with a huge army of adepts, immortals, stalkers and then tack on disruptors or colossus if you manage to survive the push.

Overall I think 1/2 of the problems are due to this bad map pool and another 1/4 of the problems are because the new units/abilities do way, way, way too much damage or stack so well its a bit silly.

I honestly think the game would have been significantly better if the new units did less damage and there was less emphasis on worker killing as your main objective. It makes sc2 feel like the rts equivalent of call of duty, all reaction with very little strategic depth beyond the bare bones basics.

The fast pace is fine but the stunning amounts of damage+the high speed make the game more about split second reactions than anything else, especially since everyone guns straight for mineral lines because it's pretty much a guaranteed win if you devastate them.


----------



## DoomDash

I loved all 1000 matches I played of LotV beta, it wasn't about whether or not the game was good or bad for me though, game is just so much effort that I can't really afford anymore.

The next game I'll play competitively will be Tekken 7, game doesn't require nearly as much time to be good at but is almost as competitive.

Really sad I can't play but that's life I guess.


----------



## Sainesk

Coop is fun for me (could be funner but not terrible), closing in on 150 brutal games win achievement. All commanders at 15. I'm enjoying the non-competitive side until I get all the new achievements.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I loved all 1000 matches I played of LotV beta, it wasn't about whether or not the game was good or bad for me though, game is just so much effort that I can't really afford anymore.
> 
> The next game I'll play competitively will be Tekken 7, game doesn't require nearly as much time to be good at but is almost as competitive.
> 
> Really sad I can't play but that's life I guess.


Any news on when its finally coming out on PC? (Tekken 7)


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Any news on when its finally coming out on PC? (Tekken 7)


No word on any release date on any console







. I'm going to go all out on it once it comes out, probably will pick up on both PC and PS4.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well I was doing pretty good as both protoss and zerg+terran on certain maps, was vsing high plat consistently and even winning...then marinelord showed decent terrans how to play their race.
> 
> Now it's nothing but XvT and T always does the same things. Frankly, I think Im done with LotV until blizzard patches this nonsense, I don't mind losing but liberators are just terribly imba with tanks and mines so I'm practically forced to all-in every game before that unit composition happens. If I don't they just zone me away from the army and I'm forced to base trade if we're on even-ish supply/economy.
> 
> Then there's the whole silliness of PvZ right now where photon oercharge makes protoss immune to any aggression with those silly pocket expansion maps so they can tech straight to voids and go adept void ray phoenix or 6 minute push with a huge army of adepts, immortals, stalkers and then tack on disruptors or colossus if you manage to survive the push.
> 
> Overall I think 1/2 of the problems are due to this bad map pool and another 1/4 of the problems are because the new units/abilities do way, way, way too much damage or stack so well its a bit silly.
> 
> I honestly think the game would have been significantly better if the new units did less damage and there was less emphasis on worker killing as your main objective. It makes sc2 feel like the rts equivalent of call of duty, all reaction with very little strategic depth beyond the bare bones basics.
> 
> The fast pace is fine but the stunning amounts of damage+the high speed make the game more about split second reactions than anything else, especially since everyone guns straight for mineral lines because it's pretty much a guaranteed win if you devastate them.


You should give conpany of hereoes 2 a chance of you haven't already. To me it was the game I went to after playing competitive sc2 for around 2 years. I'm usually a 1v1 player but 2v2 is really enjoyable in coh2.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> No word on any release date on any console
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm going to go all out on it once it comes out, probably will pick up on both PC and PS4.


Well, that sucks. I will be pick it up as soon as it releases on PC.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well I was doing pretty good as both protoss and zerg+terran on certain maps, was vsing high plat consistently and even winning...then marinelord showed decent terrans how to play their race.
> 
> Now it's nothing but XvT and T always does the same things. Frankly, I think Im done with LotV until blizzard patches this nonsense, I don't mind losing but liberators are just terribly imba with tanks and mines so I'm practically forced to all-in every game before that unit composition happens. If I don't they just zone me away from the army and I'm forced to base trade if we're on even-ish supply/economy.
> 
> Then there's the whole silliness of PvZ right now where photon oercharge makes protoss immune to any aggression with those silly pocket expansion maps so they can tech straight to voids and go adept void ray phoenix or 6 minute push with a huge army of adepts, immortals, stalkers and then tack on disruptors or colossus if you manage to survive the push.
> 
> Overall I think 1/2 of the problems are due to this bad map pool and another 1/4 of the problems are because the new units/abilities do way, way, way too much damage or stack so well its a bit silly.
> 
> I honestly think the game would have been significantly better if the new units did less damage and there was less emphasis on worker killing as your main objective. It makes sc2 feel like the rts equivalent of call of duty, all reaction with very little strategic depth beyond the bare bones basics.
> 
> The fast pace is fine but the stunning amounts of damage+the high speed make the game more about split second reactions than anything else, especially since everyone guns straight for mineral lines because it's pretty much a guaranteed win if you devastate them.


Considering my game history CURRENTLY is 5 zvp games 5 zvt games, and 21 zvz games in 1v1 your statement that its is only xvT isn't true. Also, Liberators are not OP imo. I play Z and hate them, but just like anything else you have to learn how to handle them. You have vikings as terran, you have photon overcharge for pylons. Just put one at the back of you minerals. Zerg has mobile AA that zones them out. Not to mention queens can walk around their set cone.

To be fair it sounds like you want to be diamond, but not do what it takes to adapt. Quit frankly if there are so many of you that hate sc2 quit posting here and go play Company Heros and post in that thread. I understand some of you are displeased and you have every right to be. It is a free world. However, this forum has turned into a bash fest and now we are going off topic.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> this forum has turned into a bash fest and now we are going off topic.


The reason is that people who are pleased with LotV, like me, no longer feel the need to come here to vent off steam


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Considering my game history CURRENTLY is 5 zvp games 5 zvt games, and 21 zvz games in 1v1 your statement that its is only xvT isn't true. Also, Liberators are not OP imo. I play Z and hate them, but just like anything else you have to learn how to handle them. You have vikings as terran, you have photon overcharge for pylons. Just put one at the back of you minerals. Zerg has mobile AA that zones them out. Not to mention queens can walk around their set cone.
> 
> To be fair it sounds like you want to be diamond, but not do what it takes to adapt. Quit frankly if there are so many of you that hate sc2 quit posting here and go play Company Heros and post in that thread. I understand some of you are displeased and you have every right to be. It is a free world. However, this forum has turned into a bash fest and now we are going off topic.


Couldn't said it better. Especially the last part.

Some people might remember I said something like Liberators are extremly strong in this thread. After all I still think they are strong but not op. I found a way to play against terran and it works pretty well as protoss.

In addition photon overcharge is strong aswell but *necessary* in PvZ.

Has anyone noticed the whole drama with the season lock "bug" and the reset of the whole GM worldwide?
Truly stupid move and excuse by blizzard.

gg Archon GM.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Considering my game history CURRENTLY is 5 zvp games 5 zvt games, and 21 zvz games in 1v1 your statement that its is only xvT isn't true. Also, Liberators are not OP imo. I play Z and hate them, but just like anything else you have to learn how to handle them. You have vikings as terran, you have photon overcharge for pylons. Just put one at the back of you minerals. Zerg has mobile AA that zones them out. Not to mention queens can walk around their set cone.
> 
> To be fair it sounds like you want to be diamond, but not do what it takes to adapt. Quit frankly if there are so many of you that hate sc2 quit posting here and go play Company Heros and post in that thread. I understand some of you are displeased and you have every right to be. It is a free world. However, this forum has turned into a bash fest and now we are going off topic.


Adapting doesn't have much to do with it. When you have supreme immobile compositions that cover eachother's weaknesses and cannot be attacked into unless you have a landslide lead in supply it screws the game up. Especially in the mid game. At least late game it's possible to get enoough siege units to pick the coposition apart from afar.

This is the same thing that happened in HotS with Swarm Hosts, a unit composition that cannot be attacked because it is far, far too supply efficient.
It's just not fun, being forced to Roach/Ravager/Speedling drop or 8 Gate Adept/Pylon rushing every game before the liberator count gets so high that you can't fight off the army that sits underneath them.

This forum is far from a "bash fest" nor is it off-topic to mention the issues that the game currently has. Does LotV have potential? Yes, is that potential screwed up by excessively high damage units like Liberators, Disruptors and Vipers? Absolutely.

That is a symptom of beta not doing what beta was designed to do, as it currently sits LotV multiplayer is still essentially in beta, where the numbers get somewhat fine tuned. That's because of the experminentation with the economy model and mechanics that happened+the inability to delay the release because of distrobution issues with said delay.

I don't think your sample size of games is large enough to determine anything from, bar zvz in your league being prevailant.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> This is the same thing that happened in HotS with Swarm Hosts, a unit composition that cannot be attacked because it is far, far too supply efficient.
> It's just not fun, being forced to Roach/Ravager/Speedling drop or 8 Gate Adept/Pylon rushing every game before the liberator count gets so high that you can't fight off the army that sits underneath them.
> .


You are not forced to go into roach/ravager or 8 gate adept all-in..

As far as it seems Zerg is doing pretty well against terran. Ravager cover it quite nicely and in the lategame the zerg has more than enough to counter liberators.
Protoss is able to fight against liberators with good decision making and the right engagement. Later on tempest is the perfect counter.

For me oracle -> phoenix -> storm -> tempest works pretty well against terran. However Bio + tank can be quite scary from time to time.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> You are not forced to go into roach/ravager or 8 gate adept all-in..
> 
> As far as it seems Zerg is doing pretty well against terran. Ravager cover it quite nicely and in the lategame the zerg has more than enough to counter liberators.
> Protoss is able to fight against liberators with good decision making and the right engagement. Later on tempest is the perfect counter.
> 
> For me oracle -> phoenix -> storm -> tempest works pretty well against terran. However Bio + tank can be quite scary from time to time.


That's mostly because a lot of terrans are pretty bad - and don't do things that work out very well. When is the last time you faced a terran who dropped you @ 6 minutes with marines, tanks and had liberators zoning you out of the area they drop in?

When is the last time a terran pushed you @ 4 minutes with marines, a tank and a liberator?

Competent terrans prepare for oracles the same way they prepare for warp prisms, with a single cyclone.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's mostly because a lot of terrans are pretty bad - and don't do things that work out very well. When is the last time you faced a terran who dropped you @ 6 minutes with marines, tanks and had liberators zoning you out of the area they drop in?
> 
> When is the last time a terran pushed you @ 4 minutes with marines, a tank and a liberator?
> 
> Competent terrans prepare for oracles the same way they prepare for warp prisms, with a single cyclone.


No one ever tried this 6 minute drop. I guess untill 6 minutes I have enough units and can defend it except If Im out of position.. but that should not happen ever.

With 4 minutes you mean the 111 build? I have seen that alot but less players tend to play it these days. Still the choice on ulrena.
However it is strong but not impossible to defend it. Scouting is key and there are a few ways to defend it. For example phoenix and mass units. Catch reinforcements with the phoenix and build up an army. Hit the right timing and move in.

The oracle is for scouting and the trap. Any damage is a bonus.

Also 8 gate adept is not even an option against 111 builds.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> No one ever tried this 6 minute drop. I guess untill 6 minutes I have enough units and can defend it except If Im out of position.. but that should not happen ever.
> 
> With 4 minutes you mean the 111 build? I have seen that alot but less players tend to play it these days. Still the choice on ulrena.
> However it is strong but not impossible to defend it. Scouting is key and there are a few ways to defend it. For example phoenix and mass units. Catch reinforcements with the phoenix and build up an army. Hit the right timing and move in.
> 
> The oracle is for scouting and the trap. Any damage is a bonus.
> 
> Also 8 gate adept is not even an option against 111 builds.


8 gate adept is a direct counter to 111 builds. If you invested 300 gas into an oracle too early you need to do damage with it otherwise you just told your opponent everything they need to know and depending on their chosen build, they can just come kill you due to their investent in gas.
4 minute marine tank was used by marinelord when he stomped the pro korean team into paste. It works on any map bar ruins which has too large of a travel time.

6 minute doom drops withtanks+liberators has been used by multiple pros.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> 8 gate adept is a direct counter to 111 builds. If you invested 300 gas into an oracle too early you need to do damage with it otherwise you just told your opponent everything they need to know and depending on their chosen build, they can just come kill you due to their investent in gas.
> 4 minute marine tank was used by marinelord when he stomped the pro korean team into paste. It works on any map bar ruins which has too large of a travel time.
> 
> 6 minute doom drops withtanks+liberators has been used by multiple pros.


Do you play on euro DIY?

I am trying to figure out where all of this pressure/types of builds are? It is also possible that my pressure breaks the terran's build order enough that I can get what is needed in time. I personally don't care about letting the enemy do what they want until we are both 5 bases every game. I am usually harassing their 1st barracks scv before it is 1/3 of the way done with 6-8 lings in behind it to slow them down further while I expo. Then I am pressuring or killing their expo as soon as they start to land and turtle it up. During all of this I have a full scout of what is going on and am actively slowing it down. All the while I am macroing behind it or making more units, which ever is prevalent. (Usually units if I haven't done enough damage.) Then if it gets into the late game, awesome.

Now, this kind of play will only do me so much good by the time I get high diamond. Examples of it not working is my drone getting countered properly, initial lings actually get me behind, unless they don't have anything at all to defend i.e. too greedy, and it takes far too many units to deter their nat landing. However, I will have to adapt to that part of the league's meta and think of what else that will work.

I can't recall a single day since the first time I played SC1 non-broodwar that I truly let one unit's strength deter me from playing the game. If I narrow it down to SC2 only, there hasn't been an issue there either. I've always been able to adapt and move on. As for people in Gold, Plat, and diamond leagues there is still such a talent variance one super strong build should not even be so over utilized that it would make a person quit unless they have made up in their mind that figuring the issue out and stopping it is too difficult to waste their time. I personally have never understood why people that play, play, play, and are in high masters or GM cry about every little nuance that makes it difficult to play the way they want to play. There is just no such thing as winning all the time and getting to play the way you want ALL the time. If a person is not malleable and can't think outside the box to beat someone or some dominant build platinum or lower is where they need to get happy about staying and just play the game for fun, not to be the best and win all the time.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Do you play on euro DIY?
> 
> I am trying to figure out where all of this pressure/types of builds are? It is also possible that my pressure breaks the terran's build order enough that I can get what is needed in time. I personally don't care about letting the enemy do what they want until we are both 5 bases every game. I am usually harassing their 1st barracks scv before it is 1/3 of the way done with 6-8 lings in behind it to slow them down further while I expo. Then I am pressuring or killing their expo as soon as they start to land and turtle it up. During all of this I have a full scout of what is going on and am actively slowing it down. All the while I am macroing behind it or making more units, which ever is prevalent. (Usually units if I haven't done enough damage.) Then if it gets into the late game, awesome.
> 
> Now, this kind of play will only do me so much good by the time I get high diamond. Examples of it not working is my drone getting countered properly, initial lings actually get me behind, unless they don't have anything at all to defend i.e. too greedy, and it takes far too many units to deter their nat landing. However, I will have to adapt to that part of the league's meta and think of what else that will work.
> 
> I can't recall a single day since the first time I played SC1 non-broodwar that I truly let one unit's strength deter me from playing the game. If I narrow it down to SC2 only, there hasn't been an issue there either. I've always been able to adapt and move on. As for people in Gold, Plat, and diamond leagues there is still such a talent variance one super strong build should not even be so over utilized that it would make a person quit unless they have made up in their mind that figuring the issue out and stopping it is too difficult to waste their time. I personally have never understood why people that play, play, play, and are in high masters or GM cry about every little nuance that makes it difficult to play the way they want to play. There is just no such thing as winning all the time and getting to play the way you want ALL the time. If a person is not malleable and can't think outside the box to beat someone or some dominant build platinum or lower is where they need to get happy about staying and just play the game for fun, not to be the best and win all the time.


I play on NA.

NA later at night typically gets KR players as well as EU players and even CR players.

I don't know how you're harassing their 1st rax before its done with 6-8 lings unless they're opening extremely greedy which is a death sentence vs zerg as you absolutely need your wall to hold lings at bay, they'd have to CC 1st+fast gas before rax or something euqally weird while you open pool 1st @ 12-14.

On NA servers you don't see 5 bases all too often unless its PvP and both players opened eco, the games typically end on 3, maybe 4.
I don't like that you're trying to imply that I'm whining with little credance to my opinion, I don't like that the new units do too much damage and make the game a twitch rts rather than focusing on strategy. Is that the only reason why Ive stopped playing LotV? Not at all but in combination with things like the map pool being hideously lop sided and some questionable design choices it makes the game feel like it's still in beta. That in itself is a fair conclusion because 1) the map pool is really, really bad 2) New units do absurd amounts of damage 3) New units are designed/old units have been buffed to the point of foribly centralizing the meta around them and 4) worker harass has become one of the most important aspects in leiu of strategic depth.

Does that mean I won't come back to it? Nope. It just means I'm putting the game aside until it enters a state where it doesn't look like beta - I thoroughly enjoy the game when there's no disruptors one shotting huge swaths of units, when liberators make it impossible to properly fight terran forces without having a massive supply advantage or when 4 vipers deny all air play. To that end I've had some amazing games and I'd love to have some more but with a meta that is starting to centralize around the new units due to their excexxive damage that's becoming less and less frequent.

All that needs to happen is a better map pool and some number adjustments. Rest will sort itself out in time.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> 8 gate adept is a direct counter to 111 builds. If you invested 300 gas into an oracle too early you need to do damage with it otherwise you just told your opponent everything they need to know and depending on their chosen build, they can just come kill you due to their investent in gas.
> 4 minute marine tank was used by marinelord when he stomped the pro korean team into paste. It works on any map bar ruins which has too large of a travel time.
> 
> 6 minute doom drops withtanks+liberators has been used by multiple pros.


Well as it seems EU terran have not adapted to it and before I commented any further about this I need to play against something like this more often. But out of the last 20 games I had like 2 terrans. There are not so many players on eu.
If they do play standard and get into the lategame I will win about 90%.

MarineLord has won with liberators on ulrena against PartinG. This is not a big surprice since this map can be awful. In this point I completly agree with you.. we need a new mappool. Ulrena is weird as hell. Lerilak, protocol and prion are terrible terrible maps for protoss in PvZ. Pretty much the same for terran.

Korean Terrans are complaining about adapts right now. JYP aswell.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Well as it seems EU terran have not adapted to it and before I commented any further about this I need to play against something like this more often. But out of the last 20 games I had like 2 terrans. There are not so many players on eu.
> If they do play standard and get into the lategame I will win about 90%.
> 
> MarineLord has won with liberators on ulrena against PartinG. This is not a big surprice since this map can be awful. In this point I completly agree with you.. we need a new mappool. Ulrena is weird as hell. Lerilak, protocol and prion are terrible terrible maps for protoss in PvZ. Pretty much the same for terran.
> 
> Korean Terrans are complaining about adapts right now. JYP aswell.


Adepts get beaten by stim and having a higher unit count. Pre-stim marines that are equal in numbers get destroyed by adepts - and rightfully so. Marines are half the mineral and supply cost with no gas cost.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the warp time on warp prisms. Or a higher cooldown on the shade ability.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Adapting doesn't have much to do with it. When you have supreme immobile compositions that cover eachother's weaknesses and cannot be attacked into unless you have a landslide lead in supply it screws the game up. Especially in the mid game. At least late game it's possible to get enoough siege units to pick the coposition apart from afar.
> 
> This is the same thing that happened in HotS with Swarm Hosts, a unit composition that cannot be attacked because it is far, far too supply efficient.
> It's just not fun, being forced to Roach/Ravager/Speedling drop or 8 Gate Adept/Pylon rushing every game before the liberator count gets so high that you can't fight off the army that sits underneath them.
> 
> This forum is far from a "bash fest" nor is it off-topic to mention the issues that the game currently has. Does LotV have potential? Yes, is that potential screwed up by excessively high damage units like Liberators, Disruptors and Vipers? Absolutely.
> 
> That is a symptom of beta not doing what beta was designed to do, as it currently sits LotV multiplayer is still essentially in beta, where the numbers get somewhat fine tuned. That's because of the experminentation with the economy model and mechanics that happened+the inability to delay the release because of distrobution issues with said delay.
> 
> I don't think your sample size of games is large enough to determine anything from, bar zvz in your league being prevailant.


The game is still pretty new and even pros are still figuring out the meta. If you think your losses are due to imbalance than you are only stopping yourself from getting better. They are most like due to poor macro, bad micro or lack of scouting information. Against liberators and against terran in general I recommend opening stargate in every game. Look at herO's GSL pre-season games and his road to the finals for some inspiration.

Also not to take anything from Marinelord, but for whatever reason Parting played pretty badly that game. It's not only his strategy that seemed somewhat random, but in one game he was literally floating over 1000 minerals just when Marinelord attacked.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> 8 gate adept is a direct counter to 111 builds. If you invested 300 gas into an oracle too early you need to do damage with it otherwise you just told your opponent everything they need to know and depending on their chosen build, they can just come kill you due to their investent in gas.
> 4 minute marine tank was used by marinelord when he stomped the pro korean team into paste. It works on any map bar ruins which has too large of a travel time.
> 
> 6 minute doom drops withtanks+liberators has been used by multiple pros.


I'm not sure how 8 gate adepts can be used to stop 1/1/1. I've only run into this build a couple of times, but the push comes way to early for you to have more than 1 or 2 gates active depending on your opening. On the other hand with stargate you'll have 2 oracles, which can get rid of marines or clean his mineral lines while you sac your natural.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> The game is still pretty new and even pros are still figuring out the meta. If you think your losses are due to imbalance than you are only stopping yourself from getting better. They are most like due to poor macro, bad micro or lack of scouting information. Against liberators and against terran in general I recommend opening stargate in every game. Look at herO's GSL pre-season games and his road to the finals for some inspiration.
> 
> Also not to take anything from Marinelord, but for whatever reason Parting played pretty badly that game. It's not only his strategy that seemed somewhat random, but in one game he was literally floating over 1000 minerals just when Marinelord attacked.
> I'm not sure how 8 gate adepts can be used to stop 1/1/1. I've only run into this build a couple of times, but the push comes way to early for you to have more than 1 or 2 gates active depending on your opening. On the other hand with stargate you'll have 2 oracles, which can get rid of marines or clean his mineral lines while you sac your natural.


I never said I blame my loses on imbalance, don't assume otherwise.

8 gate adept has a robo added after 4 gates, the robo gets you an observer. The Obsverer+ability to pump units is what counters 1/1/1. 4 gates+robo will be up by 4 minutes if you're playing at any reasonable skill level. Oracles are denied by Cyclones or turrets. They only work on opponents who are bad or are caught off guard.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I play on NA.
> 
> NA later at night typically gets KR players as well as EU players and even CR players.
> 
> I don't know how you're harassing their 1st rax before its done with 6-8 lings unless they're opening extremely greedy which is a death sentence vs zerg as you absolutely need your wall to hold lings at bay, they'd have to CC 1st+fast gas before rax or something euqally weird while you open pool 1st @ 12-14.
> 
> On NA servers you don't see 5 bases all too often unless its PvP and both players opened eco, the games typically end on 3, maybe 4.
> I don't like that you're trying to imply that I'm whining with little credance to my opinion, I don't like that the new units do too much damage and make the game a twitch rts rather than focusing on strategy. Is that the only reason why Ive stopped playing LotV? Not at all but in combination with things like the map pool being hideously lop sided and some questionable design choices it makes the game feel like it's still in beta. That in itself is a fair conclusion because 1) the map pool is really, really bad 2) New units do absurd amounts of damage 3) New units are designed/old units have been buffed to the point of foribly centralizing the meta around them and 4) worker harass has become one of the most important aspects in leiu of strategic depth.
> 
> Does that mean I won't come back to it? Nope. It just means I'm putting the game aside until it enters a state where it doesn't look like beta - I thoroughly enjoy the game when there's no disruptors one shotting huge swaths of units, when liberators make it impossible to properly fight terran forces without having a massive supply advantage or when 4 vipers deny all air play. To that end I've had some amazing games and I'd love to have some more but with a meta that is starting to centralize around the new units due to their excexxive damage that's becoming less and less frequent.
> 
> All that needs to happen is a better map pool and some number adjustments. Rest will sort itself out in time.


I am harassing their scv before the rax is done and stopping 2nd depot long enough for lings. However, like I said, this seems to be tapering off with high diamond play. It is 14 pool into 15 hatch. I haven't had much luck with hatch first. However, after today's games I am considering it now.

As for your opinion, like I said before, you have your right to it. I just don't happen to agree with the game being unplayable. The map pool does suck I will agree, but we are casual players. I don't see why it matters so much. I just veto the 3 worst maps for zerg.

As for Whining. I don't think I meant you particularly were whining or even thought something that harsh. I am just over the negative talk in general from all people that post it. It brings everything down. I think we all know there are issues with the game. I mean crap, some people are turning to company of heroes 1 and 2. I can guarantee there is much less balance in that game. I know, I like it and played it, but people still love it. It makes zero sense. I think we are all just expecting too much from blizzard because they have simply set the bar too high. It is a game and we should play it for fun.

I for one wish they would get rid of ranked ladder all together OR make it so when a person plays unranked they have no way of knowing what league the other person is in. They can keep the MMR, but don't let me know for one second that I am facing a diamond or masters player because my mmr is getting higher. I don't need the pressure of thinking, "I better not screw this up, it is my chance". That completely gets rid of the casual, have fun experience completely for me. I start to get to competitive and angry if I screw up and lose. I am married with kids for goodness sake. I don't have time for that crap. Obsession for such things is what ruins marriages and lives. I end up standing in the shower getting ready for work replaying strats and games past thinking what I could have done different. Then my weekend is gone, special moments with kids, back at work, working to more free time. Any other game, that isn't a problem besides WoW back in the day. Just make it freaking casual. I played Broodwar because it was FUN, not ladder ladder ladder. "Oh, you are trash cause you are wood league.." It was for fun. I just happen to be decent at it. People rage at others because they do builds that are too aggressive. Those builds are done because everyone is trying to better their rank. zvz is reduced to ling bane cancer and that is it. Then everyone cusses at each other the whole night because they are all under pressure to win. It isn't fun that way. /rant

Now, here I am complaining. See it is infectious. Can we lighten the mood any, or do we just need to end this thread?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I never said I blame my loses on imbalance, don't assume otherwise.
> 
> 8 gate adept has a robo added after 4 gates, the robo gets you an observer. The Obsverer+ability to pump units is what counters 1/1/1. 4 gates+robo will be up by 4 minutes if you're playing at any reasonable skill level. Oracles are denied by Cyclones or turrets. They only work on opponents who are bad or are caught off guard.


I don't think that's true about the oracles, otherwise you wouldn't see most pros opening with stargate in PvT. They have much more utility than killing workers in the early game, like keeping the terran in base, scouting for 3rd, spotting drops etc. Also the 8 gate adept I know opens with a gate followed by twilight and robo, so not many units early game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I for one wish they would get rid of ranked ladder all together OR make it so when a person plays unranked they have no way of knowing what league the other person is in. They can keep the MMR, but don't let me know for one second that I am facing a diamond or masters player because my mmr is getting higher. I don't need the pressure of thinking, "I better not screw this up, it is my chance". That completely gets rid of the casual, have fun experience completely for me. I start to get to competitive and angry if I screw up and lose. I am married with kids for goodness sake. I don't have time for that crap. Obsession for such things is what ruins marriages and lives. I end up standing in the shower getting ready for work replaying strats and games past thinking what I could have done different. Then my weekend is gone, special moments with kids, back at work, working to more free time. Any other game, that isn't a problem besides WoW back in the day. Just make it freaking casual. I played Broodwar because it was FUN, not ladder ladder ladder. "Oh, you are trash cause you are wood league.." It was for fun. I just happen to be decent at it. People rage at others because they do builds that are too aggressive. Those builds are done because everyone is trying to better their rank. zvz is reduced to ling bane cancer and that is it. Then everyone cusses at each other the whole night because they are all under pressure to win. It isn't fun that way. /rant


Haha, I know exactly what you mean. This game is like crack. I just have some starcraft time put aside during the week and try to stick to it. I somehow manage to keep it casual and focus on executing my builds well without caring much about my rank. It may help that I'm playing on KR with all communication turned off, so it's almost like playing AI.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Haha, I know exactly what you mean. This game is like crack. I just have some starcraft time put aside during the week and try to stick to it. I somehow manage to keep it casual and focus on executing my builds well without caring much about my rank. It may help that I'm playing on KR with all communication turned off, so it's almost like playing AI.


Hmmmm.. i may do that. Play unranked only too. Lol i dunno. I love climbing the ladder, but i hate it too. Ugh. Drugs.. i mean sc2..


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hmmmm.. i may do that. Play unranked only too. Lol i dunno. I love climbing the ladder, but i hate it too. Ugh. Drugs.. i mean sc2..


Unranked game queue time goes up like rocket once most of the people forget the game after like 2 months. Competitors like lol, csgo, data 2 are just too strong and get most of the attention. Sc2 learning process is too harsh and only fun if u a so serious, you cannot be like just join a 5 vs 5 lol game and see if u you get lucky and unlimitied possible outcome with 10 random people.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Unranked game queue time goes up like rocket once most of the people forget the game after like 2 months. Competitors like lol, csgo, data 2 are just too strong and get most of the attention. Sc2 learning process is too harsh and only fun if u a so serious, you cannot be like just join a 5 vs 5 lol game and see if u you get lucky and unlimitied possible outcome with 10 random people.


Unranked pits you against ranked players too. I have faced numerous people that were playing ranked 1v1 and I unranked. You can tell by checking that person's match history and see they either lost points in their division based off your game or gain points. I have never experienced 1v1 queue times being an issues since it was release 5 years ago.

However, I do agree. Those other games have much much more attention. It is because they are more accessible in terms of skill and availability. They also have much more people to play with, because of those reasons. Not to mention they are good games.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Unranked pits you against ranked players too. I have faced numerous people that were playing ranked 1v1 and I unranked. You can tell by checking that person's match history and see they either lost points in their division based off your game or gain points. I have never experienced 1v1 queue times being an issues since it was release 5 years ago.
> 
> However, I do agree. Those other games have much much more attention. It is because they are more accessible in terms of skill and availability. They also have much more people to play with, because of those reasons. Not to mention they are good games.


queue for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4..you will know the problem
That's was what I liked to play, I bought sc2 one and two, one was ok, then two...just played for like 3 months then not that many people around anymore...for this current final three patch, honestly very few people even know this one comes out..just so not popular anymore...I may buy this third one later when the price drops to like $9.99 and very likely no expansion anymore for like at least 5 years...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> queue for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4..you will know the problem
> That's was what I liked to play, I bought sc2 one and two, one was ok, then two...just played for like 3 months then not that many people around anymore...for this current final three patch, honestly very few people even know this one comes out..just so not popular anymore...I may buy this third one later when the price drops to like $9.99 and very likely no expansion anymore for like at least 5 years...


I do. I am "diamond" 3v3 and have no problem with queue. Maybe it is the time you play it at.


----------



## DoomDash

Did they slow medivacs? Was watching demuslim and I swear they looked slower. Kinda itching for LotV, but still waiting for my RMAed power supply.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Did they slow medivacs? Was watching demuslim and I swear they looked slower. Kinda itching for LotV, but still waiting for my RMAed power supply.


Not that i've read. Not 100% sure though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Did they slow medivacs? Was watching demuslim and I swear they looked slower. Kinda itching for LotV, but still waiting for my RMAed power supply.


Nope, same speed. Anti is right.


----------



## mthlay92

Where is the best place to watch the games? I can only watch last year's matches so many times.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mthlay92*
> 
> Where is the best place to watch the games? I can only watch last year's matches so many times.


what do you mean exactly? I am bit confused









http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/StarCraft%20II

http://www.teamliquid.net/

Currently big tournaments are GSL, StarLeague and Dreamhack Leipzig was just finished.


----------



## sweffymo

VODs:

https://www.youtube.com/user/AfreecaTV for GSL

https://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV for SSL and ProLeague

https://www.youtube.com/user/MapControlCO for BaseTradeTV's broadcasts (they are a community stream that covers many online only events)

Anything else you could possibly ask for: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpoilerFreeSC

--

Live events, check http://teamliquid.net for upcoming events and announcements and stuff!


----------



## mthlay92

Thanks guys! That's awesome. I missed a match that happened a couple days ago. The launch screen for SC2 said there was a live match happening but for some reason I couldn't get it to work.
On an unrelated note. I'm trying to get a good strategy for terran. What pros are good to watch?


----------



## poroboszcz

Also: http://sc2links.com


----------



## sweffymo

Oh no!









http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503054-life-arrested-taken-into-custody-and-under-investigation?page=1


----------



## DIYDeath

New patch helped a lot with protoss being infreakingvincible in the early-mid game, now you can actually bait out a photon overcharge. Good to see that LotV is getting sorted out though I don't get why they're not fixing the map pool, these maps aren't very well liked, let alone designed. :/


----------



## sweffymo

I haven't played the new patch yet, but I'm worried about PvZ getting even more impossible than it already was. I never really used Adepts in PvT because they felt too dirty so that change doesn't really affect my play style at least.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> I haven't played the new patch yet, but I'm worried about PvZ getting even more impossible than it already was. I never really used Adepts in PvT because they felt too dirty so that change doesn't really affect my play style at least.


From my perspective, it's bad. My PvZs usually go like this:

Open gas+pool before hatch, rush 6 lings, take out a plyon+a probe or 3 before anything heavier than a zealot comes out. Get a evo chamber, do a speedling drop. Score some damage. Get mutas, attack from the mineral line, when the protoss comes to clean up the mutas 30+ speedlings run through the main and end the game before 8 minutes have passed.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> Oh no!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503054-life-arrested-taken-into-custody-and-under-investigation?page=1


Damn. It's now confirmed he's been arrested for match fixing. Can't be good for the scene and Life was a great player.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503180-life-arrested-on-match-fixing-charges


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Damn. It's now confirmed he's been arrested for match fixing. Can't be good for the scene and Life was a great player.
> 
> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503180-life-arrested-on-match-fixing-charges


Sad news.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> From my perspective, it's bad. My PvZs usually go like this:
> 
> Open gas+pool before hatch, rush 6 lings, take out a plyon+a probe or 3 before anything heavier than a zealot comes out. Get a evo chamber, do a speedling drop. Score some damage. Get mutas, attack from the mineral line, when the protoss comes to clean up the mutas 30+ speedlings run through the main and end the game before 8 minutes have passed.


Nothing else?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Sad news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing else?


I've also experimented with queenless style in PvZ where I spam the living crap out of roaches off of like 9 hatcheries and very few qeens/ovies.

Guy asked if I was cheating because I beat back a immortal heavy army with roaches.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweffymo*
> 
> VODs:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/AfreecaTV for GSL
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV for SSL and ProLeague
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/MapControlCO for BaseTradeTV's broadcasts (they are a community stream that covers many online only events)
> 
> Anything else you could possibly ask for: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpoilerFreeSC
> 
> --
> 
> Live events, check http://teamliquid.net for upcoming events and announcements and stuff!


Thank you Soooo much for these links!


----------



## poroboszcz

Did you guys see Stork vs Innovation series in GSL today? Probably some of the best LotV games I've seen so far, especially the last one. Can't wait for Code S!


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Did you guys see Stork vs Innovation series in GSL today? Probably some of the best LotV games I've seen so far, especially the last one. Can't wait for Code S!


No, but thanks for the heads up. I shall watch during lunch break. Muha ha


----------



## ronnin426850

Hey, guys, what mice do you prefer for SC2?


----------



## Pandora51

The mice that suits you best will do it.









Im using the Logitech G402 and the g400 before.


----------



## mothergoose729

If you can still find it, the logitch mx518 is one of the best mouse ever.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> The mice that suits you best will do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im using the Logitech G402 and the g400 before.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mothergoose729*
> 
> If you can still find it, the logitch mx518 is one of the best mouse ever.


I just got the G402 as well, but haven't tried it yet in SC2, that's why I'm asking







Amazing mouse!


----------



## Sainesk

Yeah, G400 is awesome and I've always gotten good support from logitech. Does the G402 have a non-FPS version though? I think that button under my thumb would drive me nuts!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Yeah, G400 is awesome and I've always gotten good support from logitech. Does the G402 have a non-FPS version though? I think that button under my thumb would drive me nuts!


Depends on your hands. It's not under my thumb, it's a bit forward. If I didn't use it, I'd never know it's there


----------



## Pandora51

It does not touch my thumb either and my hands are relativly big. But don't worry that exact same thing was my worry aswell.

I think you should give it a try.

Edit:
To everyone:
Which dpi rating do you use?

Mine is at 1360 right now.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> It does not touch my thumb either and my hands are relativly big. But don't worry that exact same thing was my worry aswell.
> 
> I think you should give it a try.
> 
> Edit:
> To everyone:
> Which dpi rating do you use?
> 
> Mine is at 1360 right now.


I use 4000, with lower sensitivity in-game. My presets are 720, 2000, and 4000, snipe button set to 720.


----------



## DIYDeath

1000 dpi, used to have a better mouse, part of why I'm not as active with sc2 anymore is because this mouse limits how good I can be. With my tax return I'll probably go pick up a new mouse and keyboard.


----------



## Just s0me guy

I normally just play the arcade games, either Nexus Wars or Desert Strike. This past couple weeks, there has been an influx in people that either don't finish a game, or sit in the lobby and when the game is loading leaves.

I am terrible at the multiplayer ( 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 non arcades) but love the game


----------



## trivium nate

i keep getting destroyed on essence of eternity on the legacy of the void making me mad


----------



## Pandora51

You need to focus down strong units with kerrigan at start to build up a little force.

I think my composition was bio + tank which works pretty well.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> 1000 dpi, used to have a better mouse, part of why I'm not as active with sc2 anymore is because this mouse limits how good I can be. With my tax return I'll probably go pick up a new mouse and keyboard.










pzzzzzzz

I can play high diamond league with a 12 dollar logitech mouse and have done it.. Don't get me wrong having an awesome mouse is a plus, but lets not blame our skill cap on it. lol!!

I use a Razer Lachesis with a Sphex skin for a mouse pad.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> 1000 dpi, used to have a better mouse, part of why I'm not as active with sc2 anymore is because this mouse limits how good I can be. With my tax return I'll probably go pick up a new mouse and keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pzzzzzzz
> 
> I can play high diamond league with a 12 dollar logitech mouse and have done it.. Don't get me wrong having an awesome mouse is a plus, but lets not blame our skill cap on it. lol!!
> 
> I use a Razer Lachesis with a Sphex skin for a mouse pad.
Click to expand...

In WoL I played for around a month with a 800dpi single-button Mac mouse in Diamond









I sit at 3600DPI for all games now, never change it for games - it throws me off.


----------



## Cybertox

Despite the fact that I always had a good mouse, I never got any higher than Platinum


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pzzzzzzz
> 
> I can play high diamond league with a 12 dollar logitech mouse and have done it.. Don't get me wrong having an awesome mouse is a plus, but lets not blame our skill cap on it. lol!!
> 
> I use a Razer Lachesis with a Sphex skin for a mouse pad.


I can't phoenix micro with this mouse, lol. Had to switch to zerg to maintain my plat/dai mmr since they don't need as precise micro at that skill level, lol.


----------



## poroboszcz

I've been using the same Razer Deathadder for the past 8 years or so. I think it's set to 800 dpi.


----------



## Anti!!

I think it really is what you get used too for sc2. Yea a more precise mouse is a plus, but if you play with a mouse long enough you can adapt.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> In WoL I played for around a month with a 800dpi single-button Mac mouse in Diamond
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sit at 3600DPI for all games now, never change it for games - it throws me off.


Gotta have my on the fly dpi for fps games like bf4 though. Polling up for helicopters, polling down for sniping so I can cut a hair off their head is realllllll nice.


----------



## trivium nate

i didn't like the ending wasn't as good as the others....


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trivium nate*
> 
> i didn't like the ending wasn't as good as the others....


In general, LOTV wasn't as good as the others.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> In general, LOTV wasn't as good as the others.


You mean just the campaign right? I think, and most people probably agree, that multiplayer is the best one yet. They only have to nerf the bloody zerg!


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> You mean just the campaign right? I think, and most people probably agree, that multiplayer is the best one yet. They only have to nerf the bloody zerg!


Yeah I was speaking about the campaign, I havent touched the multiplayer so dont really have an opinion about it.


----------



## Pandora51

Only the story is not as good as it should be in my opinion. Especially the ending.
Gameplay, leveldesign etc was pretty good.


----------



## mthlay92

I only have WOL but still love to play the 1v1 multiplayer. I've started to play some of the Arcade games. My favorite one so far is Zone Control 4. Does anyone have any suggestions for troop movement? Also, is it worth the upgrade cost to move to LOTV?


----------



## Pandora51

Both addons are worth it for the campaign.
LotV is also worth it for multiplayer especially 1vs1 and archon. Just keep in mind the gameplay has changed ALOT. Everyone starts with 12 workers and you have to expand more because there are less minerals on every base. As a result everything is faster and micro is alot more intense because of some new units.

I think LotV is alot better than Hots and late WoL. But mostly because of broodlord winfestor and swarmhosts.







Awful times.


----------



## Cybertox

They finally started adding new skins. There is a new Colossus skin available, can be unlocked by doing achievements. Also a new ghost skin but it requires you to purchase the Nova mini campaign.


----------



## Sainesk

Just need to win 2 games in Training, Versus A.I., Unranked, Ranked, or Tournaments for Tal'darim Colossus. Nova one has been known for a while but they haven't added it to the game yet (will be added before or on release of first mission pack in Spring 2016).

I picked it up way back, $15 for 9 missions that are hopefully not terrible or even fun if they do the ghost missions right may be worth it. At least it keeps supporting the SC2 team giving them a better than minimal budget to motivate/allow them to keep working on/invest in the game.


----------



## Pandora51

I will wait for the release. Not sure what to except although it should be pretty good. Cause blizzard and all









But blizzard has to convince me aigain after messing up the whole laddersystem for nothing.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> I will wait for the release. Not sure what to except although it should be pretty good. Cause blizzard and all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But blizzard has to convince me aigain after messing up the whole laddersystem for nothing.


Messing it up?

Do tell


----------



## Cybertox

Who still remembers this amazing trailer. The hype was real back then.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Who still remembers this amazing trailer. The hype was real back then.


Yep, best thing I've seen in a while


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Messing it up?
> 
> Do tell


Right now you can

1) win all your placements and still get placed in bronze
2) match making is pretty awful at the moment, in all game modes you can end up either vsing vastly superior opponents like masers if you're plat or in team games you can get paired with a super low mmr team mate. So you'd have a 2v2 and 3 players will be masters and the 4th layer will be silver.

I'm on another break while they fix it+hopefully fix the Liberator...and maybe do something to help protoss in PvZ early aggression.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Messing it up?
> 
> Do tell


Season 1 was supposed to end on 05.jan.2016. After a while they changed it to get more time for the new laddersytem and balance changes.
The issue is they forgot about the season lock and the season got locked for a week. It took them a week to realize it and their only statement about it was something like "it was a bug". No clarification in any way.
What did they do to fix it? Unlock the ladder, give all the bonuspool back to the players and kick out the entire GM in the world. It was pretty funny to see 200 / 200 in GM EU and players like TLO, marinelord, snute, elazer, uthermal etc in master. Just because they were not fast enough after the reset. Ohh and archon gm was terrible. How do you reduce your bonuspool if most of your games are against low mmr teams?

The worst part is they didn't replace any maps in the new season and the new laddersystem is delayed for a few month. All this crap for NOTHING.

Not to mention the leave league bug.

Now it is almost fine again but there are still issues.
I don't have any problems in 1vs1 master but thats propably a different story than plat, diamond etc


----------



## DIYDeath

Well now that the seasons have shifted...I'm done with sc2. This game is awful.

The map pool is just bad

There's imbalance everywhere.

And ZvZ is prevailant. Which is by far the worst match up because it relies on build order wins AND perfec micro. Make 1 mistake? GG.

So screw sc2. I'm done with this mess of a imba game. Blizzard really messed up with LotV, focused too much on the wrong elements. I see why a lot of pros are moving on now. It's just not a good game.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> Who still remembers this amazing trailer. The hype was real back then.


I was SOOOOO hyped.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Right now you can
> 
> 1) win all your placements and still get placed in bronze
> 2) match making is pretty awful at the moment, in all game modes you can end up either vsing vastly superior opponents like masers if you're plat or in team games you can get paired with a super low mmr team mate. So you'd have a 2v2 and 3 players will be masters and the 4th layer will be silver.
> 
> I'm on another break while they fix it+hopefully fix the Liberator...and maybe do something to help protoss in PvZ early aggression.


I've always noticed those issues in team matches. You don't know HOWWWW MANNNYY times I would be diamond 1v1 or masters 1v1 and play a few team games and be the only mug on my team above silver or gold 1v1, or teams for that matter. That has been my experience anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Season 1 was supposed to end on 05.jan.2016. After a while they changed it to get more time for the new laddersytem and balance changes.
> The issue is they forgot about the season lock and the season got locked for a week. It took them a week to realize it and their only statement about it was something like "it was a bug". No clarification in any way.
> What did they do to fix it? Unlock the ladder, give all the bonuspool back to the players and kick out the entire GM in the world. It was pretty funny to see 200 / 200 in GM EU and players like TLO, marinelord, snute, elazer, uthermal etc in master. Just because they were not fast enough after the reset. Ohh and archon gm was terrible. How do you reduce your bonuspool if most of your games are against low mmr teams?
> 
> The worst part is they didn't replace any maps in the new season and the new laddersystem is delayed for a few month. All this crap for NOTHING.
> 
> Not to mention the leave league bug.
> 
> Now it is almost fine again but there are still issues.
> I don't have any problems in 1vs1 master but thats propably a different story than plat, diamond etc


What is the leave the league bug?


----------



## DoomDash

Let me know if you guys see legacy on sale.


----------



## Pandora51

The leave league was caused by a bug occuring when a player left their current league. That messed up the mmr rating. Some players got extremly high rated opponents.
Also if players left the league while season lock they were still able to play against master as platin ranked in ladder. Nothing wrong about that but the master or even GM player would get only minor points or loose a huge amount all the time.
I think it is almost fixed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Well now that the seasons have shifted...I'm done with sc2. This game is awful.
> 
> The map pool is just bad
> 
> There's imbalance everywhere.
> 
> And ZvZ is prevailant. Which is by far the worst match up because it relies on build order wins AND perfec micro. Make 1 mistake? GG.
> 
> So screw sc2. I'm done with this mess of a imba game. Blizzard really messed up with LotV, focused too much on the wrong elements. I see why a lot of pros are moving on now. It's just not a good game.


Surely there are issue but you should really stop playing sc2 for a long period of time. Your posts are most of the time extremly negative / mad.
No matter what happens in the next patch you will not be satisfied.

Lotv is a pretty good game so far and recent balance changes were good from blizzard. So there is still hope that the game will get very good over time.

That being said Blizzard has to wake up about the ladder system and maps. 4 of the 7 ladder maps are not good.. no doubt about that.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Blizzard has to wake up


Keep "dreaming"









Pun intended, I'm not even sorry.


----------



## DoomDash

Well thanks to a user on here I got Legacy of the Void!!!! Now I can finally play again.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> The leave league was caused by a bug occuring when a player left their current league. That messed up the mmr rating. Some players got extremly high rated opponents.
> Also if players left the league while season lock they were still able to play against master as platin ranked in ladder. Nothing wrong about that but the master or even GM player would get only minor points or loose a huge amount all the time.
> I think it is almost fixed.
> Surely there are issue but you should really stop playing sc2 for a long period of time. Your posts are most of the time extremly negative / mad.
> No matter what happens in the next patch you will not be satisfied.
> 
> Lotv is a pretty good game so far and recent balance changes were good from blizzard. So there is still hope that the game will get very good over time.
> 
> That being said Blizzard has to wake up about the ladder system and maps. 4 of the 7 ladder maps are not good.. no doubt about that.


Yeah, my posts about sc2 are usually negative. Unfortunately that's what happens when you basically buy a multiplayer experience that's still in beta.

I mean it's not like what I want is unreasonable. Right now Liberators are really, really overpowered. They're so good they counter their counters once they hit critical mass, which seems to happen every pro game and since it happens all the time in pro games this trickles down into plat-dai where I'm at. Other than that this map pool is absurdly bad.

Those are my two major issues. If they fix those two issues then I'd be quite happy...though we both know that currently Blizzard aren't look at those in their next patch. We get the same map pool with minor tweaks this season and they're thinking of nerfing Ravagers to help PvZ.

I don't sugar coat things, that's why I'm negative about sc2 multiplayer currently. Life's way too short to dress a bad situation up and pretend it's okay.

That being said...co-op was kind of fun, I just wish there was a harder than brutal mode because Karax is become death; destroyer of worlds @ level 15.


----------



## mthlay92

It's "still in beta" because the player demographics is changing constantly. I'd much rather get the chance to play against a much stronger opponent because it makes me have to learn how to win.


----------



## EliasAlucard

Anyone here interested in playing a few online rounds in a few hours, let me know.


----------



## DoomDash

It's amazing how a mere 3-4 months off and I have no idea what I'm doing again.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> It's amazing how a mere 3-4 months off and I have no idea what I'm doing again.


Yup! And as soon as I start figuring out Ravagers are decent against toss, they start talking nerf. I am so sick of the nerf hammer. It is ridiculous. They absolutely insist us zergs either kill you with a bane ling all in with drops, or go late game with lurker, hydra, and about 9 vipers for the late game against toss so I can abduct the piss out of high tier units.

As for liberators, I don't think they are OP, but they have completely shut down my Muta play style I like against tvz.. This is my worst match-up currently. I will have to go and watch some VODs or something.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yup! And as soon as I start figuring out Ravagers are decent against toss, they start talking nerf. I am so sick of the nerf hammer. It is ridiculous. They absolutely insist us zergs either kill you with a bane ling all in with drops, or go late game with lurker, hydra, and about 9 vipers for the late game against toss so I can abduct the piss out of high tier units.
> 
> As for liberators, I don't think they are OP, but they have completely shut down my Muta play style I like against tvz.. This is my worst match-up currently. I will have to go and watch some VODs or something.


I think Liberators have the longest learning curve to play against, but once you figure them out they actually aren't too bad. I remember in beta good players had no problems going muta.


----------



## DoomDash

I would really miss the siege tank mobility but I'm okay with stronger tanks I guess. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20742554790


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I would really miss the siege tank mobility but I'm okay with stronger tanks I guess. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20742554790


Yaay! Needs more dmg though and/or more armor/hp.


----------



## Anti!!

I liked seeing more micro with medvac siege tanks.









I also feel like siege tanks are already hard enough to engage when they leap frog them, now more damage? Im skeered.

Liberator range brought down by one will help me greatly with Queen, spore, and ravage defense.


----------



## DoomDash

Yeah I'm not a fan of the change. If you think about it, it's taking away something that makes them interesting for a flat damage buff. That's like taking a legendary item's unique ability in Diablo and just giving it high stats instead.

But anyway, I placed in gold but I'm playing gold-diamond, and I can honestly say there is basically little difference between the leagues as far as I can tell.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I'm not a fan of the change. If you think about it, it's taking away something that makes them interesting for a flat damage buff. That's like taking a legendary item's unique ability in Diablo and just giving it high stats instead.
> 
> But anyway, I placed in gold but I'm playing gold-diamond, and I can honestly say there is basically little difference between the leagues as far as I can tell.


Yea, in the last couple of days I have noticed a few people trapped in their own leagues. True Top plats that have high points are better than mid diamonds. I was like 4-0 on mid diamonds last night, but then I go and play some High plats and they just dominated me in the late game. It was pretty sick. lol

That being said my mechanics are garbage now. I float money, Supply block, miss injects. That stupid queen change really screwed me up. I am about to get it roped in now though. I am getting my space bar injects back on track now. I am just having to do 2 macro hatches on 3 base instead of the normal one. I am also going to work on hot keying my units from their larva. I really need to break down and get that burnt into my brain since I am plat now anyway.

It is good to see you playing again. This thread always gets more entertaining when you play again. Everyone else just talks about how bad it is.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> It is good to see you playing again. This thread always gets more entertaining when you play again. Everyone else just talks about how bad it is.


Yeah I love the game, and they are absolutely crazy or making up excuses IMHO. I know that pisses them off but they'll live







. Only reason I didn't play or haven't played is because of life and some what high expectations. I think I'm a little easier on myself given how much is going on in my life.

But hey man you're still around and positive too







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Not every unit should depend on micro.

I agree medivacs should be able to lift off tanks, but maybe if they have their speed reduced by half for carrying above certain weight, that would be more realistic and would still mostly remove the tank micro, if that's what Blizz wanted.


----------



## Pandora51

Interesting changelog. Looks like a step into the right direction.


----------



## DoomDash

Wow I'm Diamond already, my form is pretty bad, but damn that was easy compared to beta. Guess we'll see if I get stuck at high Diamond.


----------



## DIYDeath

[quote name="DoomDash" url="/t/782557/official-starcraft-2-strate

gy-discussion-thread/25060#post_24919442"]Wow I'm Diamond already, my form is pretty bad, but damn that was easy compared to beta. Guess we'll see if I get stuck at high Diamond.[/quote]

When 1/2 the player base quits because of imbaness, yeah things get easy. Really easy. Same story as wc3 when the blade master basically wrecked the game. Except now it's Ultras and Libreators that wrecked the game. Not tryingto be negative, just being realistic. I HOPE Blizz can fix this mess.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> When 1/2 the player base quits because of imbaness, yeah things get easy. Really easy. Same story as wc3 when the blade master basically wrecked the game. Except now it's Ultras and Libreators that wrecked the game. Not tryingto be negative, just being realistic. I HOPE Blizz can fix this mess.


I haven't been hearing much complaints about them, pretty sure most people who stuck around realized they weren't as hard as they thought they were. I learned the same things in beta.

If they all quit, I'm glad, let's weed out the excuse makers.

Man, if that tank change goes through, it's actually a huge buff to me and my style. I'm going to murder people.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> When 1/2 the player base quits because of imbaness, yeah things get easy. Really easy. Same story as wc3 when the blade master basically wrecked the game. Except now it's Ultras and Libreators that wrecked the game. Not tryingto be negative, just being realistic. I HOPE Blizz can fix this mess.


I never see anyone go ultras really.

Also, I still see tons of people play. I never have queue issues. I can strike up good 1v1 OBS games when I want. TONZ of people are playing Arcade. I don't think it is as bad as you believe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I love the game, and they are absolutely crazy or making up excuses IMHO. I know that pisses them off but they'll live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Only reason I didn't play or haven't played is because of life and some what high expectations. I think I'm a little easier on myself given how much is going on in my life.
> 
> But hey man you're still around and positive too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


yup
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I haven't been hearing much complaints about them, pretty sure most people who stuck around realized they weren't as hard as they thought they were. I learned the same things in beta.
> 
> If they all quit, I'm glad, let's weed out the excuse makers.
> 
> Man, if that tank change goes through, it's actually a huge buff to me and my style. I'm going to murder people.


Yup again.

I was diamond last season and did pretty well. I have stepped back and tried to re-approach my mechanics this go around. Kinda got me stuck in top plat, but I don't play but once a week, so what can you expect.

When I 1v1 obs diamonds I have a 70% win ratio. So, I know I got it. I'll be back. lol


----------



## DoomDash

What are people saying about Ultras? I mean I know Marauders got nerfed pretty hard vs them but we have other tools now (Liberators and Cyclones). Is Protoss struggling vs them?

I remember people complaining about Liberators in beta but the meta settled and they were fine. I still think Skytoss slaughters anything Terran has (outside marines), and Vipers counter all air as well.


----------



## Sainesk

Last I heard fully upgraded armor ultralisks were the "a move" for zerg giving them a heavy late game advantage. Doesn't matter if you're all air if they completely wipe your ground forces/prevent mining and after (if you manage to kill their ultras) zerg can be back to full supply very quickly to finish off whatever is left.

Granted this is what I heard and not necessarily agree with. I am a terrible (at the moment) random player.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Last I heard fully upgraded armor ultralisks were the "a move" for zerg giving them a heavy late game advantage. Doesn't matter if you're all air if they completely wipe your ground forces/prevent mining and after (if you manage to kill their ultras) zerg can be back to full supply very quickly to finish off whatever is left.
> 
> Granted this is what I heard and not necessarily agree with. I am a terrible (at the moment) random player.


I understand why this could cause issues, but depending on style. Like I said Marauders really got nerfed in LotV vs high armored units, so unless you already have the liberators to deal with them it could become a big issue. Zerg can also tech switch extremely easy.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I understand why this could cause issues, but depending on style. Like I said Marauders really got nerfed in LotV vs high armored units, so unless you already have the liberators to deal with them it could become a big issue. Zerg can also tech switch extremely easy.


It is my experience that people are stopping zerg's 5 base stuff pretty well. Since a zerg can no longer 3 base and get ultras out due to main mining out so quick, it is hard to even get ultra's without 4th sustained and going. With these goofy maps it spreads you thin and you really have to stack up on static defense to be safe enough from tank drops and liberators.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> What are people saying about Ultras? I mean I know Marauders got nerfed pretty hard vs them but we have other tools now (Liberators and Cyclones). Is Protoss struggling vs them?
> 
> I remember people complaining about Liberators in beta but the meta settled and they were fine. I still think Skytoss slaughters anything Terran has (outside marines), and Vipers counter all air as well.


In a nutshell, a lot of terrans don't like using ghosts and friends to deal with mass ultras. That's if the zerg gets there, Liberators screw zerg over hard enough where they have to open spire and pray it's not mass liberators+bio+tanks.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> In a nutshell, a lot of terrans don't like using ghosts and friends to deal with mass ultras. That's if the zerg gets there, Liberators screw zerg over hard enough where they have to open spire and pray it's not mass liberators+bio+tanks.


I'm not really seeing the Liberator problem from the pro level streams, I think it's mostly lower leagues I guess (and I can see why that would be, much easier to use the liberators than to beat them as Zerg). Ghosts, ghosts are only good vs Ultras alone, if you have any lings at all snipe basically doesn't work since all it takes is a hit to cancel it. Sucks because that makes them pretty awful vs Broodlords still.

I was thinking, you know the tankivac nerf is pretty big, but so is the tank buff they are purposing. Let's think about it in hits (excluding splash).

Might want to double check my math....

Zerglings now get 1 shot by tanks in siege mode regardless of any armor upgrades they have (previously it would take 2 shots with any upgraded armor bonus if the tank has not been upgraded).
Ravagers take the same amount of shots initially, but when a siege tank is +1 it kills in one less shot. (assuming the health regen doesn't change it too much)
Hydras now take 2 shots assuming health regen does not effect it. Previously was 3. +1 attack for sure 2 shots.
Lurkers now take 4 shots instead of 5.
Ultras previously 11 shots, now 9.
Tanks now die in 3 shots instead of 4.
Zealots now die in 4 shots instead of 5.
Stalkers now die in 3 shots instead of 4.
Adepts now die in 4 shots instead of 5.
Immortals now die in 6 shots instead of 7 (excluding hardend shield).
Archons now die in 10 shots instead of 11.

So yeah removal is a big deal, but damn that's a big buff especially considering that's not including splash damage. This could have long effects.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm not really seeing the Liberator problem from the pro level streams, I think it's mostly lower leagues I guess (and I can see why that would be, much easier to use the liberators than to beat them as Zerg). Ghosts, ghosts are only good vs Ultras alone, if you have any lings at all snipe basically doesn't work since all it takes is a hit to cancel it. Sucks because that makes them pretty awful vs Broodlords still.
> 
> I was thinking, you know the tankivac nerf is pretty big, but so is the tank buff they are purposing. Let's think about it in hits (excluding splash).
> 
> Might want to double check my math....
> 
> Zerglings now get 1 shot by tanks in siege mode regardless of any armor upgrades they have (previously it would take 2 shots with any upgraded armor bonus if the tank has not been upgraded).
> Ravagers take the same amount of shots initially, but when a siege tank is +1 it kills in one less shot. (assuming the health regen doesn't change it too much)
> Hydras now take 2 shots assuming health regen does not effect it. Previously was 3. +1 attack for sure 2 shots.
> Lurkers now take 4 shots instead of 5.
> Ultras previously 11 shots, now 9.
> Tanks now die in 3 shots instead of 4.
> Zealots now die in 4 shots instead of 5.
> Stalkers now die in 3 shots instead of 4.
> Adepts now die in 4 shots instead of 5.
> Immortals now die in 6 shots instead of 7 (excluding hardend shield).
> Archons now die in 10 shots instead of 11.
> 
> So yeah removal is a big deal, but damn that's a big buff especially considering that's not including splash damage. This could have long effects.


I am shaking in my zerg booties.. :/ Well, it will be vipers alllllll the way. Can you say yoink? lol


----------



## ronnin426850

Wow, you mean tanks will finally become tanks again?







It was about time those big guns stopped firing blanks


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Wow, you mean tanks will finally become tanks again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was about time those big guns stopped firing blanks


I always felt they were alirght, but yeah I'm ready for them to drive fear into peoples hearts again.


----------



## Pandora51

As long as we won't see any mech Im totally fine with the new tank.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> As long as we won't see any mech Im totally fine with the new tank.


Hahahahahahahahahahah. Mech isn't going anywhere. Mech is amazing, probably the only reason I'm still playing.


----------



## Pandora51

Mech shouldn't be a thing in sc2. Atleast not like mech in WoL and Hots. Mech in LotV doesn't seem to be exciting aswell.

Unfortunately Sc2 is not like broodwar. Only mech vs bio in TvT was amazing.
Remeber one of the best Sc2 games of all time?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Mech shouldn't be a thing in sc2. Atleast not like mech in WoL and Hots. Mech in LotV doesn't seem to be exciting aswell.
> 
> Unfortunately Sc2 is not like broodwar. Only mech vs bio in TvT was amazing.
> Remeber one of the best Sc2 games of all time?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I find mech extremely exciting, and so does Artosis and many other high level players or casters. Just recently Artosis wrote this interesting blog on how mech is more exciting now than ever:
http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/139953518805/in-defense-of-flying-siege-tanks-and-why-legacy-of

The only mech that wasn't exciting was mech vs swarm hosts in HotS, but that's not an issue anymore.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I find mech extremely exciting, and so does Artosis and many other high level players or casters. Just recently Artosis wrote this interesting blog on how mech is more exciting now than ever:
> http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/139953518805/in-defense-of-flying-siege-tanks-and-why-legacy-of
> 
> The only mech that wasn't exciting was mech vs swarm hosts in HotS, but that's not an issue anymore.


Man, nothing was exciting in HotS







It should be recorded as the most annoying multiplayer expansion in the history of gaming! Only that mass BC vs mass swarm hosts game with Lucifron and that other guy, was interesting. The rest was total sheet!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Man, nothing was exciting in HotS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should be recorded as the most annoying multiplayer expansion in the history of gaming! Only that mass BC vs mass swarm hosts game with Lucifron and that other guy, was interesting. The rest was total sheet!


I thought HotS was okay, but LotV is 100x better.


----------



## DoomDash

Doesn't sound like I'm getting my tank buff after all







. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20742714240

On a side note I had my first person complain about Liberators, but the funny part is he made 0 Vipers in a 34 minute match. How can you complain about them when you don't use the best anti-air weapon in the game? Seriously people these days! Dat workers killed doe.


Also my current win rates.


----------



## Sainesk

Ha gj Doom, if that worker killed count was split over the course of the game and not just a snowball at the end I'm surprised the game lasted so long. You back to Master going for GM yet?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Ha gj Doom, if that worker killed count was split over the course of the game and not just a snowball at the end I'm surprised the game lasted so long. You back to Master going for GM yet?


It was not all at once, trust me. With mech on all these large maps I can only take out a few bases at a time, and when he keeps expanding across the map I gotta slowly march over to the next one. That and hellion/liberator harass. That's the crazy thing about Zerg that this guy wasn't thinking about either, no way other races could lose that many workers and still compete with me. Also look at my workers lost.... this guy was expecting to win by never counter attacking, never stopping expos, etc. I didn't make my base some impossible fortress, I even forgot to make one CC a PF, but he never ever attacked any of them.

And no, not masters yet, I was convinced I was going to get it right away since I was #2 Diamond and playing masters but then I tanked. I'm pretty confident I can do it this season though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Doesn't sound like I'm getting my tank buff after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20742714240
> 
> On a side note I had my first person complain about Liberators, but the funny part is he made 0 Vipers in a 34 minute match. How can you complain about them when you don't use the best anti-air weapon in the game? Seriously people these days! Dat workers killed doe.
> 
> 
> Also my current win rates.


That's because Parasitic Bomb got nerfed to the pointof not beating Liberators anymore and it's kinda hard to make more units when Liberators kill all your larva.









Make them more often, they give terran free wins consistently and are a key piece to mech being good right now.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> That's because Parasitic Bomb got nerfed to the pointof not beating Liberators anymore and it's kinda hard to make more units when Liberators kill all your larva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make them more often, they give terran free wins consistently and are a key piece to mech being good right now.


I did feel like parasitic bomb was a little bit less powerful, but damn it's still really good. I wouldn't call those free wins either, since Zerg has more than enough tools for them at frickin fusion core tech lol. Liberators are still extremely beatable, like I said they just have a bit of a learning curve. I will say be glad you play Protoss you have it best against them IMO.

Anyway I've been so close to Masters I can taste it. I'm really hoping for that promotion soon.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ladder/193404#current-rank


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I did feel like parasitic bomb was a little bit less powerful, but damn it's still really good. I wouldn't call those free wins either, since Zerg has more than enough tools for them at frickin fusion core tech lol. Liberators are still extremely beatable, like I said they just have a bit of a learning curve. I will say be glad you play Protoss you have it best against them IMO.
> 
> Anyway I've been so close to Masters I can taste it. I'm really hoping for that promotion soon.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ladder/193404#current-rank


Hydras get 1 shotted, Queens can't be batch produced/are limited to 1 per hatchery at a time for production, Mutas are just...you have to massively out number the libs and then hope they don't have enough libs to one shot the flock. Corrupters are better but same deal applies. If there's enough Liberators they'll one-two shot all of the lumped ones.

Spores work but spores can't fully deny Liberators.

That in itself is problematic but okay, whatever. What makes them overpowered is the medivatnks and bio that operate under them beccause liberators can be easily mass produced without cutting into bio produccction and barely scratching the tank production.

PB isn't a 1 button answer. It doesn't deal damage fast enough to kill if the terran micros unless you have 1000+ gas invested strictly into vipers...which get countered by Liberators as well.

It certainly is a free win when you sacrfiice 4 Liberators to kill the zerg's entire larva bank so they can't make units to defend even the most menial bio-meditank-liberator push.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Hydras get 1 shotted, Queens can't be batch produced/are limited to 1 per hatchery at a time for production, Mutas are just...you have to massively out number the libs and then hope they don't have enough libs to one shot the flock. Corrupters are better but same deal applies. If there's enough Liberators they'll one-two shot all of the lumped ones.
> 
> Spores work but spores can't fully deny Liberators.
> 
> That in itself is problematic but okay, whatever. What makes them overpowered is the medivatnks and bio that operate under them beccause liberators can be easily mass produced without cutting into bio produccction and barely scratching the tank production.
> 
> PB isn't a 1 button answer. It doesn't deal damage fast enough to kill if the terran micros unless you have 1000+ gas invested strictly into vipers...which get countered by Liberators as well.
> 
> It certainly is a free win when you sacrfiice 4 Liberators to kill the zerg's entire larva bank so they can't make units to defend even the most menial bio-meditank-liberator push.


Usually it just means pre-splitting your corruptors or mutas just like terran is doing vs PB. At my level the Zergs are really good at pre splitting, and once you get it down corruptors take so many hits that your liberators are not cost effective even with the splash. Keep in mind I am a mech player, I do think that bio w/ tank liberator could be an issue, but for pure mech I would even go as far as saying its a Zerg advantage. Doesn't mean I'll change my style though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Usually it just means pre-splitting your corruptors or mutas just like terran is doing vs PB. At my level the Zergs are really good at pre splitting, and once you get it down corruptors take so many hits that your liberators are not cost effective even with the splash. Keep in mind I am a mech player, I do think that bio w/ tank liberator could be an issue, but for pure mech I would even go as far as saying its a Zerg advantage. Doesn't mean I'll change my style though.


If the terran player has 10+ liberators unless you pre split into a good 4+ groups, it's not gonna help too much because that many liberators start one shotting.

I don't think mech can afford mass liberators but bio+a few mech units like tansk and mines can and as we all know, marines do really well vs air units as well.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If the terran player has 10+ liberators unless you pre split into a good 4+ groups, it's not gonna help too much because that many liberators start one shotting.
> 
> I don't think mech can afford mass liberators but bio+a few mech units like tansk and mines can and as we all know, marines do really well vs air units as well.


Yep rines would make a huge difference. Mech really doesn't have any cheap effective AA units like that...

But yeah I still see most Zergs do really well vs liberators even when I have a bunch, they've gotten the corruptor math down.









*edit* watching vibe, he's talking about how split corruptors own split liberators. Also giving stream watchers some advice on ravager infestor combos to really destroy them mid-game.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yep rines would make a huge difference.


Was that ma- exhausting to write?


----------



## Mortifera

For lesser-skilled players like me (playing Silver/Gold), Liberators are indeed cancer. especially with early game harassment







Luckily at the time one of my main strats as zerg allowed me to have ravagers at about the same time they started arriving so countering was relatively easy then, not sure how things are now.

Unfortunately microing air vs ~6-10 libs was at times quite the ball-ache when dealing with ground too, and pairing bio/medvac could just let them steam-roll me in confrontations

I've taken a break just because those and the general cheesing were ruining the fun for me (yeah yeah, I know I should just 'git-gud-scrub'







), but how likely do you guys think it is that the Liberator will be nerfed in a meaningful way? That is if you feel it needs to/can be.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Was that ma- exhausting to write?


Yeah, that's time I could have put to playing! jk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mortifera*
> 
> For lesser-skilled players like me (playing Silver/Gold), Liberators are indeed cancer. especially with early game harassment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily at the time one of my main strats as zerg allowed me to have ravagers at about the same time they started arriving so countering was relatively easy then, not sure how things are now.
> 
> Unfortunately microing air vs ~6-10 libs was at times quite the ball-ache when dealing with ground too, and pairing bio/medvac could just let them steam-roll me in confrontations
> 
> I've taken a break just because those and the general cheesing were ruining the fun for me (yeah yeah, I know I should just 'git-gud-scrub'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but how likely do you guys think it is that the Liberator will be nerfed in a meaningful way? That is if you feel it needs to/can be.


It's been the same way for banelings for us all these years, you can't possibly design a game to be balanced for every skill level.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah, that's time I could have put to playing! jk.
> It's been the same way for banelings for us all these years, you can't possibly design a game to be balanced for every skill level.


Liberators are a bit different. Banelings suck pretty bad vs mech. Liberators are good vs everything. That's why in pro games you see some games end with mass Liberator, because when an army accompanies them and fights under their freedom circles not much beats it.

Liberators are pretty much the only unit in the game that handily countes its counters when used correctly. Nevermind the harass, Liberator harass is fairly easy to shoo away. It's when they're used to zone out armies from tanks and marines.

In essence, tank+liberator+bio is the new mech, it doom pushes faster and sooner while being more effective for less resources.

I've found the trick to beating mass Liberator-based compositions is DO NOT LET THEM GET THERE. If they get 10+ Liberators and you're not already making tempests or mass corrupters you've lost the game. Kind of like how if Terran let zerg get mass Ultras and they're not already making Ghosts or Mass Liberators, they've lost the game.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Liberators are a bit different. Banelings suck pretty bad vs mech. Liberators are good vs everything. That's why in pro games you see some games end with mass Liberator, because when an army accompanies them and fights under their freedom circles not much beats it.
> 
> Liberators are pretty much the only unit in the game that handily countes its counters when used correctly. Nevermind the harass, Liberator harass is fairly easy to shoo away. It's when they're used to zone out armies from tanks and marines.
> 
> In essence, tank+liberator+bio is the new mech, it doom pushes faster and sooner while being more effective for less resources.
> 
> I've found the trick to beating mass Liberator-based compositions is DO NOT LET THEM GET THERE. If they get 10+ Liberators and you're not already making tempests or mass corrupters you've lost the game. Kind of like how if Terran let zerg get mass Ultras and they're not already making Ghosts or Mass Liberators, they've lost the game.


As a mech player I try to avoid late game I still think that's Terran's weakest area, especially vs Protoss. Honestly I'm thinking I'd be better off 2 base all inning with mech. And yeah banes aren't good vs mech but mech is still such a niche, and over all banelings are probably more game winning than liberators still and with much less of an investment.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> As a mech player I try to avoid late game I still think that's Terran's weakest area, especially vs Protoss. Honestly I'm thinking I'd be better off 2 base all inning with mech. And yeah banes aren't good vs mech but mech is still such a niche, and over all banelings are probably more game winning than liberators still and with much less of an investment.


To a degree, yeah. Banelings are better if you can support their production and they land money hits.

Though recently I had a nice 30 minute game TvZ where I massed the crap out to hellbat, marine, liberator and eventually battlecruiser vs corrupter, ling, bling, ultra, bl, viper.

I just kept up on my air ups and focused fire, was 2 shotting split corrupter forces. When the Vipers showed up I just Yamato'd them. Ultras died to Liberators before they could look at me funny and the hellbats absorbed all the baneling hits before they could wreck my base/with blue flame made lings irrelavent.

After that I just camped each base with 2 liberators so the larva bank couldn't accumulate and when spores repositioned I'd just move the liberators and bring in the battlecruisers as mass helions flooded in with 0/3.

Terran mech late game is amazing but its finnicky. Liberators with upgrades are scary beasts in TvZ and mass liberators will force viper production which yu can then counter via ghosts or battlecruisers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> To a degree, yeah. Banelings are better if you can support their production and they land money hits.
> 
> Though recently I had a nice 30 minute game TvZ where I massed the crap out to hellbat, marine, liberator and eventually battlecruiser vs corrupter, ling, bling, ultra, bl, viper.
> 
> I just kept up on my air ups and focused fire, was 2 shotting split corrupter forces. When the Vipers showed up I just Yamato'd them. Ultras died to Liberators before they could look at me funny and the hellbats absorbed all the baneling hits before they could wreck my base/with blue flame made lings irrelavent.
> 
> After that I just camped each base with 2 liberators so the larva bank couldn't accumulate and when spores repositioned I'd just move the liberators and bring in the battlecruisers as mass helions flooded in with 0/3.
> 
> Terran mech late game is amazing but its finnicky. Liberators with upgrades are scary beasts in TvZ and mass liberators will force viper production which yu can then counter via ghosts or battlecruisers.


Mannnnn Battle Cruisers? What a joke of a unit







. An ideal split of Corruptors will be at most 2 getting hit at a time, and it takes a TON of shots, so you were probably ahead enough that it didn't matter anyway.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Mannnnn Battle Cruisers? What a joke of a unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . An ideal split of Corruptors will be at most 2 getting hit at a time, and it takes a TON of shots, so you were probably ahead enough that it didn't matter anyway.


I was 3 base to his 5







He was ahead. I made 6 Battlecruisers and about 20 liberators with lots of hellbats.

I just used the Battlecruisers for yamato vs vipers and as meat shields. PB is awful vs them.

The problem with splitting your corrupters that much is you're not focusing fire all of a sudden because you're spread out over too large of a range. He had his corrupters split into 4 groups at one point, didn't matter. 2 shotting each group made them useless. Liberators have a huge splash radius.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I was 3 base to his 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was ahead. I made 6 Battlecruisers and about 20 liberators with lots of hellbats.
> 
> I just used the Battlecruisers for yamato vs vipers and as meat shields. PB is awful vs them.
> 
> The problem with splitting your corrupters that much is you're not focusing fire all of a sudden because you're spread out over too large of a range. He had his corrupters split into 4 groups at one point, didn't matter. 2 shotting each group made them useless. Liberators have a huge splash radius.


Sounds like the Zergs you play aren't splitting right, trust me it doesn't really effect the battles much since you concave them pre-engagement. Also if you managed to get out 7 BC's you were ahead trust me lol.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Sounds like the Zergs you play aren't splitting right, trust me it doesn't really effect the battles much since you concave them pre-engagement. Also if you managed to get out 7 BC's you were ahead trust me lol.


If they concave well why would you attack the corrupters? Liberators are faster, pull bak, watch them clump a little then re-enguage.

He was definitely ahead. We're talking 60 drones to 33 scvs. I bought extra time with fusion core 3/3 Liberators at every base, killing larva and running when spores came.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> If they concave well why would you attack the corrupters? Liberators are faster, pull bak, watch them clump a little then re-enguage.
> 
> He was definitely ahead. We're talking 60 drones to 33 scvs. I bought extra time with fusion core 3/3 Liberators at every base, killing larva and running when spores came.


Replay? They are barely faster, every time you stop to fire you're taking a hit and if you concave it right there would have to be a lot of kitting to get them to stack up again especially because typically you split your liberators too (fungal/pb). Your game sounds odd, BC's aren't really viable in LotV, but I'm curious to see.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Replay? They are barely faster, every time you stop to fire you're taking a hit and if you concave it right there would have to be a lot of kitting to get them to stack up again especially because typically you split your liberators too (fungal/pb). Your game sounds odd, BC's aren't really viable in LotV, but I'm curious to see.


Watching IEM right now, after I'll upload the replay.

You don't try kiting the corrupters, you flat out disenguage if they concave and then dumble back. Kinda of like how you beat phoenix with mutas. Battle Cruisers are hilariously bad units. But it's either ghosts or BCs for vipers. I went with BCs because I only had 2 rax and was 3/3. Part of why it wasn't awful was because Liberators mess up the things zerg normaly gets to kill battlecruisers. Hydas can't get close with that many Liberators setting up freedom circles. Corrupters work but I didn't get any BCs until after I killed an absolute ton of corrupters. Vipers are just bad vs them unless you're abducting into a hydra ball or mass corrupters.

Honestly, my teran is bad. I only pulled it off because Liberators stretched my opponent's apm to the max and beyond.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm sure I'll have a lot to say once I see the game.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I'm sure I'll have a lot to say once I see the game.


Like why the hell didn't my opponent get vipers sooner, lol. The ultras certainly didn't do anything all game. I lost my 3rd to bane/ultra but my main/nat was unscathed due to hellbats and marines absorbing the hits, then floated my main to my 3rd and continued with 1 less mule.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Like why the hell didn't my opponent get vipers sooner, lol. The ultras certainly didn't do anything all game. I lost my 3rd to bane/ultra but my main/nat was unscathed due to hellbats and marines absorbing the hits, then floated my main to my 3rd and continued with 1 less mule.


On the topic of banes into PF's, you don't know how many games I've won vs Zergs who sack most of their banes on a PF. Assuming you are even without huge banks, if they do that, counter attack immediately.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> On the topic of banes into PF's, you don't know how many games I've won vs Zergs who sack most of their banes on a PF. Assuming you are even without huge banks, if they do that, counter attack immediately.


Only bad zergs dump all their banes into a PF. Really, really bad zergs. xDDD

I love putting a PF into my nat's wall, deters almost all ground based aggression, makes the zerg do things like non-rushed drops or a nydus all-in.


----------



## Pandora51

Hydra vs Neeb 2:2. Is this real?

Actually a good player from usa as it seems









Edit: Ulrena says nope.
Still 2 very nice games from neeb.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Only bad zergs dump all their banes into a PF. Really, really bad zergs. xDDD
> 
> I love putting a PF into my nat's wall, deters almost all ground based aggression, makes the zerg do things like non-rushed drops or a nydus all-in.


Depends how far ahead you are.









Something like 12 or so banes can kill a planetary if you send a meat shield in first. It is rolling through and getting the scvs first and letting banes die as they go that works nice. The damage the planetary takes is just a side note. You should never do this if your larva is not banked and you don't have a bank.

Sometimes the zerg just gets frustrated because it is difficult to break a PF and a few tanks without committing a full army to it, suffering more losses than needed, then pulling back. We just have to let you have the expand. So, sometimes banes are quick, kill it, and you actually lose less supply than you do if you send an army. Even if you sack 24 banes, it is only 12 supply. But, do it when you are ahead. Not on even levels.

That from an X-masters bad zerg. lulz


----------



## Anti!!

Well, just call me thread killer.

On another note. Do you any of you know a good zerg strat sources? I have kinda lost what I am working towards. Back in Wol it was ling Muta into Blord. Early Hotz it was the stephano 3 base max roach against toss, etc. Now, I know it is roach, ravager, Hydra, Lurker, but I am always behind and losing which is sad considering Zerg is "OP".

The protoss players are crying so bad about lurkers and ravagers. Naniwa and Rotterdam are going to drive me nuts with the complaining.

**Edit

- Well scratch that. It seems I have the burden of being the Father of all Zerg peeps on OCN.

ZVT
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499060-zerg-versus-terran-legacy-overview

ZVT 3 Ravager pressure opener
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499397-zvt-3-ravager-pressure-opener-luppasc2

ZVZ
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499697-zerg-versus-zerg-overview

ZVP
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499709-pigs-zvp-ling-ravager-muta-into-ultra-infestor

There are more I am sure. But I am starting with this.


----------



## espn

The AlphaGo AI program may enters Starcraft 2 pro league after beating best Go board game pro players


----------



## DoomDash

https://youtu.be/QRRNGH4gs4U?t=563


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> The AlphaGo AI program may enters Starcraft 2 pro league after beating best Go board game pro players


But AI has no physical limitations (if it is a program only) so unless you build it a robot body limited in movement and by input devices and reading visual feedback etc., AI would have major advantage on micro/macro capabilities. The match would be less reliant on intelligence/thinking than a turn based game like Go or Chess. That was insane if I heard the news correctly though - the Go AI beat the world #1 (or close) human in the first match played, scary and awesome stuff though I'm not sure if it was best of 3 or 5 or such.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> But AI has no physical limitations (if it is a program only) so unless you build it a robot body limited in movement and by input devices and reading visual feedback etc., AI would have major advantage on micro/macro capabilities. The match would be less reliant on intelligence/thinking than a turn based game like Go or Chess. That was insane if I heard the news correctly though - the Go AI beat the world #1 (or close) human in the first match played, scary and awesome stuff though I'm not sure if it was best of 3 or 5 or such.


yes the reaction keyboard/mouse part computer would be faster but pro human has very good timing too so this part would not be like super different, the strategy part is the key to win or lose....and how to execute...AI can really control 200 units each while impossible for human....


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> https://youtu.be/QRRNGH4gs4U?t=563


BUT DOOMMMMM, UHHhhh, TOSS is under powered!







Boo Hooooooo.


----------



## zealord

I am not up2date. How is Jaedong doing in korea currently? I knew he lost to leenock








That's the last thing I know


----------



## DoomDash

ouch


----------



## mthlay92

I'm playing on WOL and have issues breaking through Terran defense. I get to late game TvP, I control nearly all of the map and then I can't get through the turrets and siege tanks. Then the Terran sends out the detector with the homing mines and wipes out nearly every unit. I learned that blink stalkers do well against the homing mine. But then the game drags on into the 60th min. I usually quit because I lose patience. Any tips getting through and knocking down the natural expansion and main base after minute 12? I usually try a immortal drop at the supply line around min 7 if that doesn't work I get screwed. Haha


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> ouch


Hurrr Durrr A-move. lol!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mthlay92*
> 
> I'm playing on WOL and have issues breaking through Terran defense. I get to late game TvP, I control nearly all of the map and then I can't get through the turrets and siege tanks. Then the Terran sends out the detector with the homing mines and wipes out nearly every unit. I learned that blink stalkers do well against the homing mine. But then the game drags on into the 60th min. I usually quit because I lose patience. Any tips getting through and knocking down the natural expansion and main base after minute 12? I usually try a immortal drop at the supply line around min 7 if that doesn't work I get screwed. Haha


WoL is a long time ago. Im not sure I can even remember WoL strats anymore lol. Any tosses here remember?

As Zerg I would Blord it lol.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Hurrr Durrr A-move. lol!!
> WoL is a long time ago. Im not sure I can even remember WoL strats anymore lol. Any tosses here remember?
> 
> As Zerg I would Blord it lol.


Some patches changed WoL unit stats as well, I think, old strats are not guaranteed to work anymore.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mthlay92*
> 
> I'm playing on WOL and have issues breaking through Terran defense. I get to late game TvP, I control nearly all of the map and then I can't get through the turrets and siege tanks. Then the Terran sends out the detector with the homing mines and wipes out nearly every unit. I learned that blink stalkers do well against the homing mine. But then the game drags on into the 60th min. I usually quit because I lose patience. Any tips getting through and knocking down the natural expansion and main base after minute 12? I usually try a immortal drop at the supply line around min 7 if that doesn't work I get screwed. Haha


The standard PvT composition in WoL was based around Colossi. There was also a strong timing with +2 ranged 3 or 4 Collosi around 14 minutes iirc. You can find some info here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/196385-standard-play-part-2-pvt-colossus-pushing

That's more of a standard / macro play. For quick wins I'd recommend 2/2 chargelot archon all-in. It's really strong, but not great for all maps: http://imbabuilds.com/hots-protoss/hots-pvt/pvt-partings-2-2-chargelot-archon-timing/


----------



## Pandora51

Blink Stalker into colossi
Fast colossi
Fast HTs
Double Forge into chargelot and HT or 2/2 chargelot archon all-in

That should work in WoL against Bio.
Immortal heavy is the key against mech. Carrier in the super Lategame.

But don't take it as granted. WoL is already a bit old.


----------



## DoomDash

Still only doing well because of TvT.... I should really just give up mech in the other match ups







.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Still only doing well because of TvT.... I should really just give up mech in the other match ups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hey, did you preorder the new DooM?







Will you be giving SC a break when it comes out?


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Hey, did you preorder the new DooM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you be giving SC a break when it comes out?


Yes I did preorder it (The CE on Amazon Prime for 20% off), and kinda. I haven't been playing super regularly as is, I just want to play enough to keep my skills semi-up. I'm trying not to think about Masters because every time I'm a match or two a way from getting my promotion I tank and feel like poop. I will try to ignore my rank and play naturally... and that also means I won't grind as much.


----------



## DoomDash

Purchased almost entirely for the Ghost skin.... seriously imagine how much money they would be able to make if they released skins. https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/starcraft-ii-nova-covert-ops


----------



## Cybertox

Only 9 new missions, 3 of those coming out in June and the other six prior to December. What a joke.


----------



## Sainesk

I'm hoping there is a lot of optional nukes action in all/some of the missions. I like skins too but need an optional off like low vs max settings since they can be a distraction to some.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> I'm hoping there is a lot of optional nukes action in all/some of the missions. I like skins too but need an optional off like low vs max settings since they can be a distraction to some.


Yea, Nova is pretty hot... wait.. I mean, yea.. a Distraction.


----------



## DoomDash

I got LotV for free, so least I can do is spend $15 here







. I got my preorder avatar already, too bad the ghost skin isn't here yet.

Speaking of ghosts, I had just lost to this Master Terran player and I had a nice revenge match opportunity. Saw no blocked ramp and occasionally in TvT I'll do a ghost rush when I see that. Unfortunately it didn't do the damage required to make it worth it, and he had enough forces to attack me without me being able to do much in response. I do however manage to get a bit lucky, and win the match as you'll see here.
https://gfycat.com/InformalSingleGibbon


----------



## DoomDash

Really enjoyable ZvZ from Vibe! https://secure.twitch.tv/vibelol/v/54877735?t=05h35m12s


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Really enjoyable ZvZ from Vibe! https://secure.twitch.tv/vibelol/v/54877735?t=05h35m12s


"Enjoyable" and "ZvZ" are not two words I'd expect to see in the same sentence. Have you switched from terran?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> "Enjoyable" and "ZvZ" are not two words I'd expect to see in the same sentence. Have you switched from terran?


Are you crazy? I enjoy watching them bugs kill each other


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> "Enjoyable" and "ZvZ" are not two words I'd expect to see in the same sentence. Have you switched from terran?


No, but I like to watch all the races to see what's going on. I really like to watch Vibe, even donated $5.

What I like about ZvZ in legacy is once you get past the ling/bane bs you can get a pretty interesting match between pretty different combos, like ling/muta/lurker vs roach/hydra/infestor/viper like that match. It was really interesting to see how annoying offensive and defensive lurkers can be, but it was also cool to see vipers using pull and blinding cloud vs them. Pretty cool.


----------



## poroboszcz

Yeah I guess ZvZ got a bit better with Lurkers and Ravegers, but it's still my least favourite matchup. It just doesn't seem very strategic and 90% of times it's ling bane BS into roach or muta wars.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Yeah I guess ZvZ got a bit better with Lurkers and Ravegers, but it's still my least favourite matchup. It just doesn't seem very strategic and 90% of times it's ling bane BS into roach or muta wars.


It's better than it ever has been, but yeah ling/bane is enough to have made me avoid playing Zerg from the get go.


----------



## DoomDash

SC2 WoL and HotS physical copies are $8 at best buy right now for anyone who is looking or wanting to gift.

Also, great post by Nony over on TL:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/506050-progamers-do-your-job
Quote:


> During the Legacy of the Void beta, it was understandable for every pro who had not qualified for Blizzcon to become a part-time game designer. Huge decisions were being made about the future of competitive SC2 and Blizzard wanted your help. There weren't a lot of competitions going on so a shift in your priorities was an easy decision.
> 
> Immediately following the release of LotV, it was natural for some of those thought processes to linger. Strategies developed quickly and each matchup felt different as each significant discovery was made. Blizzard had stated that they planned to continue to make changes and you wanted to continue to be a partner in the process.
> 
> But now we're in the thick of the competitive season. The Winter Championship has been played and the Spring Championship is coming soon. And yet you're still trying to rewrite the rules of the game. Focus on your job. There's no unique suggestion you can make to the SC2 dev team that'll be more valuable to the scene than you playing really well. It's not just about trying to be competitive with the Korean players. The game is more fun to watch the better the players are.
> 
> But the Koreans are way better than you. Getting good results against the Korean players at Blizzcon this year would be absolutely the best thing you can do for the scene.
> 
> The game is not that bad. You are.
> 
> Get good.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> SC2 WoL and HotS physical copies are $8 at best buy right now for anyone who is looking or wanting to gift.
> 
> Also, great post by Nony over on TL:
> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/506050-progamers-do-your-job


Uuuuh, that burn







Real nice.


----------



## mthlay92

That's how I feel! I've never been out of the gold group. But it's not because the game sucks, it's because I don't play 8 hours a day. The game is great, I'm bad. Hahaha
I love watching matches on youtube (base trade is the channel I watch)
Thanks for the best buy suggestion; I don't have a store near me so I'll see if I can get it online.


----------



## Sainesk

Plat, curse my addiction to random and unwillingness to cheese. There's a video with commentary of me beating a masters on ladder cheesing me a while back probably my most entertaining replay. I wonder if ladder can still match me against masters+ (GM v Plat good times absolutely getting destroyed) was pretty frustated beating masters long long time ago and not even getting promoted to diamond.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Plat, curse my addiction to random and unwillingness to cheese. There's a video with commentary of me beating a masters on ladder cheesing me a while back probably my most entertaining replay. I wonder if ladder can still match me against masters+ (GM v Plat good times absolutely getting destroyed) was pretty frustated beating masters long long time ago and not even getting promoted to diamond.


The match making was really bad awhile ago, but you shouldn't be playing people outside your league nearly as often now. Don't worry about promotions you'll get one if you deserve it as long as your MMR is semi-settled.

I have been trying to completely ignore my desire to get back into masters as I think it's too hard on me mentally. Just trying to enjoy the game and let things happen naturally now.


----------



## DoomDash

Looks pretty good so far! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20063101


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Looks pretty good so far! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20063101


I won't be buying this for now, I'll wait for a sale once all parts are released







But it does look good!


----------



## Sainesk

Ha reaper tanks!

And stealthy Nova with a shotgun - I like it when we get to customize equipment and not just skills, hope she has a silencer for that!

Might be a while before sale + there is pre-order discount and bonus...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Really enjoyable ZvZ from Vibe! https://secure.twitch.tv/vibelol/v/54877735?t=05h35m12s


Yea, I have been stuck on Vibe lately. I had been trying to find someone that is good at zvx and understands the meta. And Vibe fits that role. Pretty awesome!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Ha reaper tanks!
> 
> And stealthy Nova with a shotgun - I like it when we get to customize equipment and not just skills, hope she has a silencer for that!
> 
> Might be a while before sale + there is pre-order discount and bonus...


Yeah I hate waiting for Blizzard sales... like once a year.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I hate waiting for Blizzard sales... like once a year.


Doesn't have to be Blizz, I bought LotV from g2play for half the price, sales are more frequent there







And I know it's a shady site, but I have several games from there already, several different platforms (Origin, Steam, Uplay and Battle.net) and no issues so far


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Doesn't have to be Blizz, I bought LotV from g2play for half the price, sales are more frequent there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I know it's a shady site, but I have several games from there already, several different platforms (Origin, Steam, Uplay and Battle.net) and no issues so far


Yeah I use kinguin which has been great.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Yeah I use kinguin which has been great.


Yes, I got a premium coupon from Kinguin last week, got Company of Heroes, Heroes 5 and Orbital Gear for 0$


----------



## DoomDash

I just got the sega humble bundle which included company of heros for $1.


----------



## Sainesk

Good deal, beating the average price (6.53 at the moment) also unlocks the Grand Master Dawn of War 2 collection. With the different game modes/campaign I've sunk 100s if not 1000+ hours into that series, well worth it just for campaign/the last stand game mode never mind the awesome RTS side.

Meh I missed the free Necron Overlord hero for last stand mode between March 10-15


----------



## DoomDash

Community Feedback Update.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20743005369

New 1v1 maps.
http://imgur.com/a/RvkeR


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Community Feedback Update.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20743005369
> 
> New 1v1 maps.
> http://imgur.com/a/RvkeR


This looks great to me. All of it. Might just get me back into SC


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> this map pushes the boundaries of heavy strategic usage of Destructible Rocks and Rock Tower mechanics


Oh good, after three expansions they've finally figured out what the community really wants! kappa

Like the ladder changes, but this map pool is ******* terrible.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Oh good, after three expansions they've finally figured out what the community really wants! kappa
> 
> Like the ladder changes, but this map pool is ******* terrible.


Why do you dislike the maps? Seem decent to me.


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Why do you dislike the maps? Seem decent to me.


Good maps allow diversity of strategies rather than dictate a certain play style. They are interesting to play and watch because it's difficult to predict how the game is going to unwind, since most strategies are valid. It's up to the players to make the use of the map rather than the map forcing them to play in a certain way. They are balanced in a way which doesn't put any race at a strong disadvantage. They are called standard maps and they usually lead to most interesting games. None of these maps really seems to meet these criteria.

Then there are destructible rocks. They were never a good idea and have been generally complained about by most players. They don't add any depth to the game. I've never seen a match were someone would get excited about a play involving destructible rocks. The units that are send to destroy them could be send to harass or defend, or scout, or do anything that is more interesting than destroying some rocks. Most of the time they are just annoying as you often have to factor destroying them into the build order (e.g. to take a third). And here they are taken to a whole new level as some of the maps seem to be designed purely around destructible rocks, which means we're only going to see more of units vs rocks action and BOs designed specifically with them in mind.

Now, since Blizzard seems to have a fetish for destructible rocks and "creative" map design, I wouldn't mind to have a couple of maps like that. I could always veto them. But here it's pretty much the entire map pool. The only remaining standard map is Dusk Towers, which also happens to be one of people's favourites, as the other two (Orbital Shipyard and Lerilak Crest) have been removed and replaced with this.

What's so bad about these maps from my (Protoss) perspective?

All of them have wide ramps to natural which can't be walled even with 2 buildings and a pylon, which makes it problematic in PvZ (which is already pretty bad).

Korhal Carnage Knockout is an 8 spawn map with backdoor to your main, three entrances to your natural and destructible rocks everywhere. I mean it's pretty apparent how bad it is. Perhaps it would be good as an FFA map, but why did they actually thought it's a good ladder map?

Ruins of Endion is pretty much like Ulrena, but with short rush distance path blocked instead of the long rush distance one, which actually makes it quite different. It's probably the only map in the pool which may be protoss favoured due to how easy it is to secure first 3 bases. Still it's going to most likely force rush to air or drop openings due to the layout.

Invader actually looks pretty good, except it seems to be quite terran favoured against both protoss and zerg with abusable air space between main and 3rd, multiple attack paths, cliffs behind mineral lines and difficult to defend 3rds.

Frozen temple is kind of meh. It has short natural to natural rush distance with no ramp and wide choke (PvZ) and then there are 4 attack paths into your third and a difficult to take 4th, so I don't see many games on this map going past 2 bases.


----------



## DoomDash

I like them. What I think Blizzard do is do what Nathanis said. Give us a ton of unique maps and a ton of serious business maps with less gimmicks, but also give us a lot more downvotes. This way if you prefer the serious maps you can downvote the non-serious maps and visa-versa. I prefer a bit of both, but certainly not as serious as a few years ago those were mostly boring as heck.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> Good maps allow diversity of strategies rather than dictate a certain play style. They are interesting to play and watch because it's difficult to predict how the game is going to unwind, since most strategies are valid. It's up to the players to make the use of the map rather than the map forcing them to play in a certain way. They are balanced in a way which doesn't put any race at a strong disadvantage. They are called standard maps and they usually lead to most interesting games. None of these maps really seems to meet these criteria.
> 
> Then there are destructible rocks. They were never a good idea and have been generally complained about by most players. They don't add any depth to the game. I've never seen a match were someone would get excited about a play involving destructible rocks. The units that are send to destroy them could be send to harass or defend, or scout, or do anything that is more interesting than destroying some rocks. Most of the time they are just annoying as you often have to factor destroying them into the build order (e.g. to take a third). And here they are taken to a whole new level as some of the maps seem to be designed purely around destructible rocks, which means we're only going to see more of units vs rocks action and BOs designed specifically with them in mind.
> 
> Now, since Blizzard seems to have a fetish for destructible rocks and "creative" map design, I wouldn't mind to have a couple of maps like that. I could always veto them. But here it's pretty much the entire map pool. The only remaining standard map is Dusk Towers, which also happens to be one of people's favourites, as the other two (Orbital Shipyard and Lerilak Crest) have been removed and replaced with this.
> 
> What's so bad about these maps from my (Protoss) perspective?
> 
> All of them have wide ramps to natural which can't be walled even with 2 buildings and a pylon, which makes it problematic in PvZ (which is already pretty bad).
> 
> Korhal Carnage Knockout is an 8 spawn map with backdoor to your main, three entrances to your natural and destructible rocks everywhere. I mean it's pretty apparent how bad it is. Perhaps it would be good as an FFA map, but why did they actually thought it's a good ladder map?
> 
> Ruins of Endion is pretty much like Ulrena, but with short rush distance path blocked instead of the long rush distance one, which actually makes it quite different. It's probably the only map in the pool which may be protoss favoured due to how easy it is to secure first 3 bases. Still it's going to most likely force rush to air or drop openings due to the layout.
> 
> Invader actually looks pretty good, except it seems to be quite terran favoured against both protoss and zerg with abusable air space between main and 3rd, multiple attack paths, cliffs behind mineral lines and difficult to defend 3rds.
> 
> Frozen temple is kind of meh. It has short natural to natural rush distance with no ramp and wide choke (PvZ) and then there are 4 attack paths into your third and a difficult to take 4th, so I don't see many games on this map going past 2 bases.


Well, at least you can now say that you know of at least 1 person who gets excited about destructible rocks - me








I've always said how I like when a game revolves more on territory control than on micro. I will definitely get back in the game now


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## Sainesk

Shotgun and now futuristic Katana Nova. I am hyped, hope they are pretty long missions especially with only releasing 3 at a time...


----------



## DoomDash

I still have to play the LotV story, but I think I'll have to re-play WoL and HotS, it's been too long forgot nearly all of it.


----------



## DoomDash

Well the new season has begun! New ladder maps are live!!! Here are my statistics for last season, although Zerg was actually one up on me because I won my placement match for this season.



If Protoss gets to a decent skytoss army, even better with storm I lose basically every time.









Pretty cool print your own MTG SC cards here:
http://imgur.com/a/weFrT

Here is the new ghost skin, which also has a 1 in 100 chance to spawn a nova ghost.


----------



## DIYDeath

New maps fixed a massive amount of what was wrong with the game. I'm loving it so far.


----------



## DoomDash

Call to Action: March 31st.
Quote:


> Thor's anti-air attack has been reworked:
> Now deals single-target damage.
> Deals 50 damage every 2 seconds.
> 1 attack per hit.
> The Thor's model has been changed to reflect its new attack.
> Banshee's Hyperflight Rotors has changed:
> Requirement changed from Fusion Core to Armory
> Cost reduced from 200/200 to 100/100
> Liberator's Defender Mode radius decreased from 5 to 4.
> Ravager Corrosive Bile cooldown increased from 7 to 10 seconds.


Here is my response to the thread after having played the balance map:
Quote:


> I played around with the Thor change and I'm not entirely against it since the Liberator kinda filled it's AA roll. I do think as it currently sits the damage is a bit too high and the fire rate is a bit too slow. I'd prefer slightly less damage for an increased fire rate. Right now the problem is the long delay between attacks, and the constant HUGE over killing it will do on the average air unit. For example it will take 3 shots to kill a muta, but the last shot will over kill it for 30 damage, which is just insane overkill for such a slow attack. Make the damage about 40 and increase the rate and I think this could be pretty interesting.


Also here is a visual comparison of the liberator AG range. http://imgur.com/sNUVuoX


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Call to Action: March 31st.
> Here is my response to the thread after having played the balance map:
> Also here is a visual comparison of the liberator AG range. http://imgur.com/sNUVuoX


I never understood Thor as AA. It's slow and expensive. Can't chase and finish off, and is too risky as stationary, you're better off building a turret.


----------



## DoomDash

Here is some visualization for all of the changes. Thors would be legit vs capitol ships and such now... interesting.

http://imgur.com/a/m4LAJ


----------



## DIYDeath

New Thors look nice, I'll be using them a lot more now. I even used them as is vs a zerg who rushed viper ultra, turns out thors+choke point=dead ultras even with blinding cloud.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> New Thors look nice, I'll be using them a lot more now. I even used them as is vs a zerg who rushed viper ultra, turns out thors+choke point=dead ultras even with blinding cloud.


Yeah Thor's vs Ultra's can be evenly matched depending on the engagements. I wonder if Void Ray's will still shred them, I'd bet they still would.


----------



## ronnin426850

What openers do you do as P vs random?


----------



## poroboszcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> What openers do you do as P vs random?


I 14 pylon scout and open with gate (at ramp), gas, nexus, core, gas, then follow up with my standard build vs the race I scout.


----------



## DoomDash

Pretty cool Sky Terran match from Maru:



Man his macro is so much better than mine (and everything else).


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> ◦Fixed an issue that could cause a player to not spawn as the race they selected in ranked ladder play.


WHAT?


----------



## poroboszcz

So, given that I only play around 2 - 4 hours a week and that protoss is kinda hard in LotV, I'm pretty proud of myself.


----------



## DoomDash

Grats. I haven't been playing, it's too hard to make time. Why do you think Toss is hard?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Grats. I haven't been playing, it's too hard to make time. Why do you think Toss is hard?


I'm going to assume it's because this map pool is not very friendly to protoss. Expansions are too hard to take and hold without opening greedy - which gets you auto losses to pool 1st openers either via 6 lings and early aggression crippling your production by sniping pylons, forcing probe pull after probe pull while they expand or you have to do a fast full wall and prepare for ravagers/drops/nydus/banes+hydras then expand.


----------



## poroboszcz

I think it's a combination of a few factors, map pool indeed being one of them. LotV is in general harder than the previous expansions due to faster pace and changes to the economy, but I feel like for protoss the difficulty has increased more than for the other races.

The way protoss is played has changed pretty much 180 degrees from an "a-move" deathball race into an unforgiving micro-intensive one. They increased the skill ceiling by introducing units like adepts and disruptors, which is probably a good thing, but at the same time they increased the skill floor by nerfing the core easy units like the colossus and void ray to the ground so they're hardly viable anymore. Just compare HotS colossus wars in PvP with blink disruptor in LotV or robo based PvZ in HotS with adept harass into phoenix harass into archon immortal zealot storm tempest + oracles in LotV.

Pretty much all protoss units are now spell casters which require extra APM to be effective. **** is just hard to play. I'm running out of control groups in the late game trying to manage all this stuff.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I think it's a combination of a few factors, map pool indeed being one of them. LotV is in general harder than the previous expansions due to faster pace and changes to the economy, but I feel like for protoss the difficulty has increased more than for the other races.
> 
> The way protoss is played has changed pretty much 180 degrees from an "a-move" deathball race into an unforgiving micro-intensive one. They increased the skill ceiling by introducing units like adepts and disruptors, which is probably a good thing, but at the same time they increased the skill floor by nerfing the core easy units like the colossus and void ray to the ground so they're hardly viable anymore. Just compare HotS colossus wars in PvP with blink disruptor in LotV or robo based PvZ in HotS with adept harass into phoenix harass into archon immortal zealot storm tempest + oracles in LotV.
> 
> Pretty much all protoss units are now spell casters which require extra APM to be effective. **** is just hard to play. I'm running out of control groups in the late game trying to manage all this stuff.


Keep in mind everyone, he is Diamond EU, not NA. Congrats porobo.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Keep in mind everyone, he is Diamond EU, not NA. Congrats porobo.


Same thing until you hit high masters/GM. I was Diamond in Korea at the same ladder rating that I was on NA when I played both. Also I beat many Euro players @ the same rank as me in tournaments back in the day.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Same thing until you hit high masters/GM. I was Diamond in Korea at the same ladder rating that I was on NA when I played both. Also I beat many Euro players @ the same rank as me in tournaments back in the day.


You are a bad example doom. You are masters caliber and always will be.


----------



## poroboszcz

This was actually on KR. I also don't see too much of a skill difference between servers, but one thing I noticed is that KR seems to be ahead in the meta and is faster to adopt new builds after they appear in the GSL or PL.


----------



## DIYDeath

I think I figured out how Protoss handle mutas without going stargate and its WEIRD.

I've been doing Archon drops with a round of chargelot warp ins. 1-2 cannons @ home per mineral line, a skeleton stalker crew to chase and 1 defensive Archon per mineral line.

What this means is Mutas can't attack your mineral lines due to the cannons+archons and even attmepting to do so results in mass damage and/or muta deaths while @ their base 2 Archons maul everything with good use of choke points and chargelots screening. So the mutas essentially end up having to take a bad fight vs Archons as well as losing mass drones (2 archons will destroy mineral lines with a few chargelots and Archons make quick work of morphing eggs in case that's an issue). After the Archon drops, they just don't recover and you collect your free win as long as you defended well enough as the zerg is likely to have delayed lurker tech and you already have your robo for observer production+untocuhed 2 base economy vs their ravaged 3 base economy.

Been working vs daimonds and lower consistently, not sure if its because no one ever suspects Archon drops or if its actually viable outside of a meta call build...either way..as long as it's getting the job done...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> I think I figured out how Protoss handle mutas without going stargate and its WEIRD.
> 
> I've been doing Archon drops with a round of chargelot warp ins. 1-2 cannons @ home per mineral line, a skeleton stalker crew to chase and 1 defensive Archon per mineral line.
> 
> What this means is Mutas can't attack your mineral lines due to the cannons+archons and even attmepting to do so results in mass damage and/or muta deaths while @ their base 2 Archons maul everything with good use of choke points and chargelots screening. So the mutas essentially end up having to take a bad fight vs Archons as well as losing mass drones (2 archons will destroy mineral lines with a few chargelots and Archons make quick work of morphing eggs in case that's an issue). After the Archon drops, they just don't recover and you collect your free win as long as you defended well enough as the zerg is likely to have delayed lurker tech and you already have your robo for observer production+untocuhed 2 base economy vs their ravaged 3 base economy.
> 
> Been working vs daimonds and lower consistently, not sure if its because no one ever suspects Archon drops or if its actually viable outside of a meta call build...either way..as long as it's getting the job done...


Do you have a follow up for this type of aggression in the event it doesn't do game ending damage? Also, this is only against muta play?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Do you have a follow up for this type of aggression in the event it doesn't do game ending damage? Also, this is only against muta play?


Yeah only vs fast spire, it's basically chargelot archon with obs and the option for additional robo units if longer rnage splash is required so the follow up would be making more chargelots and archon with some immortals and/or colossus mixed in. You're only dropping 2 archons behind mineral lines so losing them and not doing lots of damage while not good isn't game ending.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Yeah only vs fast spire, it's basically chargelot archon with obs and the option for additional robo units if longer rnage splash is required so the follow up would be making more chargelots and archon with some immortals and/or colossus mixed in. You're only dropping 2 archons behind mineral lines so losing them and not doing lots of damage while not good isn't game ending.


Add in some phoenix later on and you will have what Vibe refers to as Zombie Toss. We have a build for that. muha ha ha


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Add in some phoenix later on and you will have what Vibe refers to as Zombie Toss. We have a build for that. muha ha ha


What is dead may never die. #drownedgod.


----------



## DoomDash




----------



## espn

I know there will be expansion"s" later and I don't want to get into this "pay forever loop" while this game is not popular at all anymore comparing to games like LOL or CSGO.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> I know there will be expansion"s" later and I don't want to get into this "pay forever loop" while this game is not popular at all anymore comparing to games like LOL or CSGO.


Annnnyyyyyywaaaaayyyyyyssss

For us diehard SC2 fans, I am super happy to see the change. *Fist pump* This is them listening. I've been seeing this idea on forums everywhere. Go buy the next flavor of Call of duty, or supreme commander, or command and conquer, or Company of heroes, and see if they are giving video updates like this after their money was made. SC2 fans and "so called fans" are crazy. I am surprised David Kim even shows his face anymore. Props to him.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Annnnyyyyyywaaaaayyyyyyssss
> 
> For us diehard SC2 fans, I am super happy to see the change. *Fist pump* This is them listening. I've been seeing this idea on forums everywhere. Go buy the next flavor of Call of duty, or supreme commander, or command and conquer, or Company of heroes, and see if they are giving video updates like this after their money was made. SC2 fans and "so called fans" are crazy. I am surprised David Kim even shows his face anymore. Props to him.


yeah they focus on making money mainly from die hard fans now with I bought 3 already why not more then later 6 already why not more. . .forever loop it is not they listen to you just want to keep making money out of you.


----------



## Pandora51

what?
Im not really able to follow your text espn

However what is so bad about this update and more content (even if it is content for money)? It keeps the game alive and keeps up the support from blizzard.
The system from lol and cs:go for making money just doesn't work for Sc2.


----------



## ronnin426850

Wait, am I missing something, have they announced more expansions for SC2? Can s1 give source pls?


----------



## Anti!!

I don't think they have. They are just patching and making changes still. I don't know where this more expansion stuff is coming from.


----------



## Sainesk

Covert Ops missions, new heroes for coop. Personally I don't have a problem with paying for more content if it is at a fair price.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Covert Ops missions, new heroes for coop. Personally I don't have a problem with paying for more content if it is at a fair price.


Yea, I think solid work should be compensated.

However, I consider an expansion more story, not add-ons.


----------



## Mr.Zergling

Welp

Getting back into this game after waiting a year to buy lotv. Was Masters when I quit last spring, placements went 3-2 beating a gold, plat, diamond and then losing to 2 diamonds. Got placed gold







. Not too bad for starting off cold after a whole year off. Gonna see if I can get back up to masters in a month or so since my mechanics seem to be mostly intact (creep spread has been lacking, APM ONLY 170).

What's the meta like what now? Hit me with some popular Zerg build orders, been mostly doing the same things I was in hots and it seems to be working okay.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Zergling*
> 
> Welp
> 
> Getting back into this game after waiting a year to buy lotv. Was Masters when I quit last spring, placements went 3-2 beating a gold, plat, diamond and then losing to 2 diamonds. Got placed gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Not too bad for starting off cold after a whole year off. Gonna see if I can get back up to masters in a month or so since my mechanics seem to be mostly intact (creep spread has been lacking, APM ONLY 170).
> 
> What's the meta like what now? Hit me with some popular Zerg build orders, been mostly doing the same things I was in hots and it seems to be working okay.


Rightn now in TvZ you start with spire so you don't auto-lose to Liberators and then go straight for ultras....zerg have it rough vs competent players.

One of my favorite buyild orders in ZvT is a 2 base all-in. Open pool-gas, get fast speed. As speed is researching, drone up hard with skeleton ling force and grab your nat asap, get a evo chamber and overlord speed, have overlords positioned by the enemy base. @ 3:30 drop 22 speedlings into their base, re-load into overlord and drop on on the tank directly if needed.

Follow up with a roach/ravager push.

If you micro well, you WILL win the game, except vs fast banshees.


----------



## 1Kaz

ZvT
Spire isn't needed for liberators, in fact many zerg's only add spire after ultra tech. Liberator openings are easily delt with using 3 queens, or on hard to hit maps, a spore. Ravangers do extremely well against them and it's probably why the roach ravanger infestor into ultras is so strong right now. Terran's almost always go into liberators at some point and Ravengers seem to be the best unit choice for dealing with them. Lately zerg's seem to mostly defend until ultras, with perhaps a mid game push to trade out units (roaches aren't supply efficient so it's better not to let the opponent hit max), if the opponent isn't attacking. Ultras force a considerable change up of units for Terran and reaching them early in the game often catches Terran with their pants down. They really need ghosts or a high liberator count to deal with ultras, but with how well ravengers do against liberators it's not too hard to deal with them. Just don't blindly walk into the liberator zone and expect to come out the other end.

Spire is usually added to help deal with medivacs when their numbers get too high. Picking off medivacs with ravengers and fungle can prevent the need to add spire, but it's usually a good investment after ultras are on the field.

ZvP
Most people and even pro's aren't playing against protoss correctly. Quick ling speed (well, after 2nd base), into a saturated 3rd. Stop mining gas until the 3rd base is reaching saturation. Put guys back on gas and take a 2nd gas to go into lair, then add more gas as drones allow. Play around with the 2nd gas and lair timing a bit to get a feel for when to do it. Later is better for economy, but you might want to cut it a little closer for tech.

Make every effort to deny protoss their 3rd base. Drop creep on it with an overlord (hold position the overlord so it doesn't fly away after the first shot), and make a wave of zerglings as ling speed is finishing. Be sure to pick off any pylons you can while they are going down, it's the pylons and photon overcharge that stop early 3rd base aggression. By denying the protoss 3rd base, even just a minute, zerg is able to fully saturate their 3rd base and throw their entire production against protoss before their 3rd is up and running. It allows zerg to trade poorly and still win the engagement.

Most pros are not correctly denying expansions. Opponents are freely able to take their 3rd, 4th, and even 5th without repercussions. Spotting and denial is the key to victory.


----------



## Mr.Zergling

Good tips! Hit diamond today in 26 games, and I'm feeling this meta out. Probably won't hit masters again till next season (ladder locks tomorrow right?)


----------



## 13321G4

Hello Boys!

I've fallen back in love with this game. Haven't played for like 3 years now, but god am I loving it. Going to play though the campaign (never finished it before, didn't even start on the HOTS), and look for when there's a deal on LOTV.

Played a few ranked matches and god I'm awful haha. Was diamond when I stopped, and have now been placed in bronze, which I totally deserve.

I've been relearning hotkeys as I used to use TheCore before and wanted to swap back to the defaults, but they just didn't feel right. Now the new version of TheCore is different from what I remember, so that's a learning curve I need to overcome.

Also I think I want to play Random instead of Toss. But even with just the few games I've played, it's going to take a lot of work to try and remember timings and actually make sense of scouting information. I would then play each game just trying to macro up a 'standard' good composition and macro my opponents out of the game.

If I stick to Toss I would try to learn harassment focussed builds. Think a long the line of (2-immortal) drop harass, phoenix builds, or something with Adepts... I don't even know what's legit haha

What are some fun/sick harassment focussed builds? Adepts are the thing nowadays right?

E:

Bronze is exhausting. Bunch of week 1 base push attempts. The amount of turtling is obscene.

E2:

Whoo promoted to Silver! ez GG


----------



## Anti!!

Been playing random here. Fun stuff


----------



## 13321G4

I've been having problems with running the game under wine. When it works it works well, but sometimes the game crashes a few seconds into a match. I'm not sure if blizzard counts the game but oh well...

On that note, with 3.4 it's gotten worse, but after crashing my placement game I was placed in Gold (1), and after winning the next game I was promoted to Plat (3)! Whoo back to diamond asap haha.

Still much to improve on mechanically speaking.

How does everyone like the new visible mmr system?


----------



## DoomDash

A LAN center opened up near me and SC2 is one of the only games that I would still be interested in playing there. Guess I'll come out of retirement for hopefully some local matches.


----------



## ronnin426850

I started the campaign from scratch yesterday, first time playing SC2 for 2 years. The game seems to be in top shape, some good updates have gone through.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I've been having problems with running the game under wine. When it works it works well, but sometimes the game crashes a few seconds into a match. I'm not sure if blizzard counts the game but oh well...
> 
> On that note, with 3.4 it's gotten worse, but after crashing my placement game I was placed in Gold (1), and after winning the next game I was promoted to Plat (3)! Whoo back to diamond asap haha.
> 
> Still much to improve on mechanically speaking.
> 
> How does everyone like the new visible mmr system?


I am allll about the mmr showing.

@Doom. - I am off of SC2 till Aug. 9th. Then I will be playing again. Wanna 1v1 for practice(fun) before you get all Masters rank again?


----------



## 13321G4

I've been watching some LOTV streams, and was wondering. When the game was in beta, they had things like auto-inject for queens didn't they? What ever happened to that? I mean I'm happy they removed it but as interested if anyone know more about it...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I am allll about the mmr showing.
> 
> @Doom. - I am off of SC2 till Aug. 9th. Then I will be playing again. Wanna 1v1 for practice(fun) before you get all Masters rank again?


I was skeptical at first, I really liked it being hidden, and just not really worrying about the score and just enjoying that fact that my opponents were about level and that (almost) each match was a hard fought victory.

But now that I've been playing with it, it's been a pleasure and I'm really enjoying it being visible. Could also have to do with that I'm winning almost all of my games. 95% of my losses are my client crashing









I seem to have fixed the crashes so I decided to buy lotv.

Macro is so different in this game. So many minerals, mined out main sooooo fast, constant chronoboost. This stuff is weird! I don't know if I can keep playing random. I have no idea what to do ever...

Welp back to bronze it is.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I am allll about the mmr showing.
> 
> @Doom. - I am off of SC2 till Aug. 9th. Then I will be playing again. Wanna 1v1 for practice(fun) before you get all Masters rank again?


Sure, let me know when.

I did end up going to that LAN center, my first interaction with the new league changes, had to get placed. I got Diamond right away, did they get rid of MMR decay finally? Went 1-2, but almost won one of the two I lost. Not too shabby for not having played in a ton of months.

But yeah playing at the LAN center just didn't compare to playing at home on my own setup. I would have liked to have met some more SC2 players, that would have made it worth it. I guess there aren't many around lol.

And Masters? Psh, I won't be getting masters again, maybe never again. Too hard.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> I've been watching some LOTV streams, and was wondering. When the game was in beta, they had things like auto-inject for queens didn't they? What ever happened to that? I mean I'm happy they removed it but as interested if anyone know more about it...
> I was skeptical at first, I really liked it being hidden, and just not really worrying about the score and just enjoying that fact that my opponents were about level and that (almost) each match was a hard fought victory.
> 
> But now that I've been playing with it, it's been a pleasure and I'm really enjoying it being visible. Could also have to do with that I'm winning almost all of my games. 95% of my losses are my client crashing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to have fixed the crashes so I decided to buy lotv.
> 
> Macro is so different in this game. So many minerals, mined out main sooooo fast, constant chronoboost. This stuff is weird! I don't know if I can keep playing random. I have no idea what to do ever...
> 
> Welp back to bronze it is.


lol try to keep having fun. Watching stream from players like Vibe, Rotterdam, and a take your pick pro terran helped me get the basic openers. Then you can free lance from there once you understand everything up till your full saturation 3rd. From there you can do what you like. Once you have that memorized and have enough games under your belt with this it will be much easier.

I too had issue with LOTV when I first started because the timings were all over the place due to the minerals running out sooner. You generally keep 3 bases saturated and have other bases built and taken to be ready to transfer when you are in the middle of fighting.

@ Doom, MMR dekay is still around I believe. You were only gone for a few months right?


----------



## DIYDeath

I've started to play Protoss again instead of random due to my hatred for Terran's late game sucking and I've noticed something...

You technically do not need to harass terran or zerg. You can simply turtle on Tempest Adept Archon Colossus and make cannon walls to split the map.

As long as you have spotter pylons and observers, drops will take damage just getting to their drop destination and if you were smart enough to spam Stasis Ward in your bases with Oracles whatever gets dropped is guaranteed to die.

Frontal assaults are just a poor life choice because yopu can't attack into a Tempest Colossus Archon Adept ball with cannons nearby.

Colossus fry things from a distance, Archons make attacking with air units a baaaaad idea, adepts tank and of course, your skeleton stalker force fills in the blanks while Tempests just pelt your high value units as you approach.

It's been working wonders vs plat and dai players.


----------



## 13321G4

Oh sounds disgusting haha. I think I would try to contain you. I might trade unfavourably but with a base advantage I should be doing fine...

I have also decided to stop playing random and focus on Protoss for now. Going double warp-gate adept into expand every matchup. Once I feel comfortable with that I'll be looking into different warp prism focussed builds, with a 150 supply timing attack to finish it off.

Ok I got back into the 'slur' of just defending and building a super army, and that got boring...

So I went to Terran. It puts pressure on me. I need to move around on the map and do something. Zerg that gets left alone just gets broodlords or ultralisks, carriers or what ever is Protoss's choide; but Terran, Terran can't tech switch easilty imo... Can't bank larvae or warpgates.

Need to constantly pressure and exchange whilst having enough production to back it up. Fun times.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RlndVt*
> 
> Oh sounds disgusting haha. I think I would try to contain you. I might trade unfavourably but with a base advantage I should be doing fine...
> 
> I have also decided to stop playing random and focus on Protoss for now. Going double warp-gate adept into expand every matchup. Once I feel comfortable with that I'll be looking into different warp prism focussed builds, with a 150 supply timing attack to finish it off.
> 
> Ok I got back into the 'slur' of just defending and building a super army, and that got boring...
> 
> So I went to Terran. It puts pressure on me. I need to move around on the map and do something. Zerg that gets left alone just gets broodlords or ultralisks, carriers or what ever is Protoss's choide; but Terran, Terran can't tech switch easilty imo... Can't bank larvae or warpgates.
> 
> Need to constantly pressure and exchange whilst having enough production to back it up. Fun times.


Agreed, i have tons of fun playing terran. Toss is easy mode when i play it. Beat high diamonds as toss and that is my off race. Lol


----------



## 13321G4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Agreed, i have tons of fun playing terran. Toss is easy mode when i play it. Beat high diamonds as toss and that is my off race. Lol


I mean, there are plenty of cool drop/harass things you can do as toss, but it's just too easy to fall into the 'wait and tech up' trap.


----------



## zazzn

Anyone still playing? Looking to get back in to masters, and it's been years, but it's hard as hell it seems now. Got there last season but since the new ranking can't get back in.


----------



## DIYDeath

I still play, high plat/low dai. To get any further ahead I'd have to start using other people's builds which strips some of the fun away from the game for me. So I'll just keep doing random things, if I get promoted, great! If not, that's fine too.


----------



## DoomDash

I'm in Diamond but only because they must have removed MMR decay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zazzn*
> 
> Anyone still playing? Looking to get back in to masters, and it's been years, but it's hard as hell it seems now. Got there last season but since the new ranking can't get back in.


Hi MasterLaw. I forgot you had an account on oc.net. We've known each other for so long







.

You should try to get me back into SC2, we always had great matches.


----------



## KickAssCop

Wow, completely back logged this game. Is the Legacy of the Void a decent campaign. This whole 3 episode nonsense completely put me off SC2. I want to play it. Let me know if the ending is worth my time.


----------



## DoomDash

I love the 3 game concept. I still haven't played Legacy tho, feel like I need to repeat WoL and HotS first.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> Wow, completely back logged this game. Is the Legacy of the Void a decent campaign. This whole 3 episode nonsense completely put me off SC2. I want to play it. Let me know if the ending is worth my time.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I love the 3 game concept. I still haven't played Legacy tho, feel like I need to repeat WoL and HotS first.


The 3 episode split was the best idea in the history of the franchise. This game has so much SP content thanks to that decision, it is shocking considering how it is mainly a MP game. I just finished replaying WoL for the third time and HotS for the second, LotV is still too fresh for me to replay, I've already finished it once.


----------



## KickAssCop

Thanks. In that case, I will indulge.


----------



## zazzn

doom dash left because he says he didnt have "time" but it's that he was getting beat up too much ;P My parasite on your thors made you mad!!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zazzn*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> doom dash left because he says he didnt have "time" but it's that he was getting beat up too much ;P My parasite on your thors made you mad!!


"That's right, you Thor, take all of those parasites, uh".

I understand him.


----------



## Anti!!

After August 9th i should be back in full tilt too.


----------



## Sainesk

Nova Covert Ops missions part 2 is out, got to get around to playing those...


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Nova Covert Ops missions part 2 is out, got to get around to playing those...


You get a Liberator design that's less coin flippy. Good AtA and a lower damage but can hit structures Defender mode with no range upgrade.

3 shots to kill a stalker, 2 for a Hydra, 2 for a worker.


----------



## KickAssCop

The campaign is pretty good in this game. Just did the Last Stand mission and destroyed a planet. Game is fantastic for SP.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> The campaign is pretty good in this game. Just did the Last Stand mission and destroyed a planet. Game is fantastic for SP.


Yep.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zazzn*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> doom dash left because he says he didnt have "time" but it's that he was getting beat up too much ;P My parasite on your thors made you mad!!


Haha except when NP expired and I still had enough to kill your army. Plus those last games we were trying out that awful new thor aa. Did they go through with that?


----------



## 1Kaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> The 3 episode split was the best idea in the history of the franchise. This game has so much SP content thanks to that decision, it is shocking considering how it is mainly a MP game. I just finished replaying WoL for the third time and HotS for the second, LotV is still too fresh for me to replay, I've already finished it once.


I disagree, SC1 had about 10 episodes per race, and BW added the same. While SC2 offers a lot more side options, like upgrading how you want, it doesn't actually have a lot of content. Most of the missions were designed at once, which explains why Void rays still charge up in Legacy of the Void, even though that was changed almost 2 years before LoV was released. The mission design is a bit more discouraging to me, it still matches the 2/3 base max that Wings of Liberty started out as. The first BW mission had 3 bases available, and more if you wanted to take the enemies.

I still love the game, I just think they should have designed the single player missions so that multiplayer was easier to get into. There's very little correlation between single and multiplayer with many units having completely different functions.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1Kaz*
> 
> I disagree, SC1 had about 10 episodes per race, and BW added the same. While SC2 offers a lot more side options, like upgrading how you want, it doesn't actually have a lot of content. Most of the missions were designed at once, which explains why Void rays still charge up in Legacy of the Void, even though that was changed almost 2 years before LoV was released. The mission design is a bit more discouraging to me, it still matches the 2/3 base max that Wings of Liberty started out as. The first BW mission had 3 bases available, and more if you wanted to take the enemies.
> 
> I still love the game, I just think they should have designed the single player missions so that multiplayer was easier to get into. There's very little correlation between single and multiplayer with many units having completely different functions.


What do you call "episodes"?
They say that SP has nothing to do with MP in one of the loading tips. I don't see how that is a bad thing. It's the same deal with other games like Battlefield and TombRaider.


----------



## ronnin426850

By the way, guys, I've been trying to find info on the net about the Archon sacrifice from LotV cinematic, can anyone tell me about that? AFAIK you can't sacrifice Archons in game, even SP, right? Or am I missing something? It would be neat if it could self-implode like that and suck in an Ultralisk


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> By the way, guys, I've been trying to find info on the net about the Archon sacrifice from LotV cinematic, can anyone tell me about that? AFAIK you can't sacrifice Archons in game, even SP, right? Or am I missing something? It would be neat if it could self-implode like that and suck in an Ultralisk


Yea, that was a bit random wasn't it?

P.S. I actually won't be playing sc2 regularly again til next Tuesday. lol Need to study for some tests required for my Senior Tech promotion at work. (Grumbles under breath about silly questions CompTIA poses.







)

P.S.S. @ Doom.
I got into VibeLol's "pub clan" lol. Threw a request at him while he was streaming. I better get active before he kicks me out. :/ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1033516/1/RaGinNyDus/


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Yea, that was a bit random wasn't it?
> 
> P.S. I actually won't be playing sc2 regularly again til next Tuesday. lol Need to study for some tests required for my Senior Tech promotion at work. (Grumbles under breath about silly questions CompTIA poses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> P.S.S. @ Doom.
> I got into VibeLol's "pub clan" lol. Threw a request at him while he was streaming. I better get active before he kicks me out. :/ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1033516/1/RaGinNyDus/


Haha, I know I feel like I over studied and while I got the core/useful information that help me on the job (sometimes) I also got a bunch of useless information I'll likely never use. Which one(s) are you going for?

I've kind of stopped chasing certs because I ended up at a place where they have the mentality "I don't care about a piece of paper, you say you know this stuff - prove it" (and there's some real pros here I look up to so it's not just jealousy or that they can't do it or such, it's just the job challenges you to push your knowledge limits/learn something new every day).


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Haha, I know I feel like I over studied and while I got the core/useful information that help me on the job (sometimes) I also got a bunch of useless information I'll likely never use. Which one(s) are you going for?
> 
> I've kind of stopped chasing certs because I ended up at a place where they have the mentality "I don't care about a piece of paper, you say you know this stuff - prove it" (and there's some real pros here I look up to so it's not just jealousy or that they can't do it or such, it's just the job challenges you to push your knowledge limits/learn something new every day).


Current one is Network+ (I took ccna in highschool, but was to young and dumb and didn't take the test at the end..) Have an A+ that is about to expire in 180 days, so I would need to do continuing credit anyway.

The company I work for has their own Virutalization test, AD test, Security test, and Web Domain test. I am having to study for these also. Passed the Security and Virtualization tests already.

Where I work also used to look over certs as it is a piece of paper proving you can study. lol However, my situation is the reverse. I've been professionally doing this for IT companies for 5 years, two years at this one. The road to Senior Tech where I work is using test tests as a standard of knowledge to make sure we are as close to the same base line entering in. I guess you could think of it as brushing up on areas you are not so familiar with.


----------



## DoomDash

Holy flipping shet!!!! That's a lot of changes!!!

I think I'm officially going to come out of retirement for a bit.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20241474/legacy-of-the-void-multiplayer-design-changes-8-14-2016


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Holy flipping shet!!!! That's a lot of changes!!!
> 
> I think I'm officially going to come out of retirement for a bit.
> 
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20241474/legacy-of-the-void-multiplayer-design-changes-8-14-2016


Wow! Can't wait to get a GPU...


----------



## DoomDash

Those tank buffs better stay in, that's manly as heck.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Those tank buffs better stay in, that's manly as heck.


XD

Hopefully after Tuesday I will be able to break in the new 980 ti and also get out of "retirement"

I feel like zerg was just stirred around and over all nerfed though. But sok. I'll play it like always, learn the meta, and win more.

@Ronnin.

I have a gtx 690 going up for sale if this guy locally doesn't buy it. It still destroys anything at 1080p. $195 and you pay shipping and you have dibs. lol


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> XD
> 
> Hopefully after Tuesday I will be able to break in the new 980 ti and also get out of "retirement"
> 
> I feel like zerg was just stirred around and over all nerfed though. But sok. I'll play it like always, learn the meta, and win more.
> 
> @Ronnin.
> 
> I have a gtx 690 going up for sale if this guy locally doesn't buy it. It still destroys anything at 1080p. $195 and you pay shipping and you have dibs. lol


Infestor change is rad, others seem meh. Actually more hp banelings is pretty crazy.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> XD
> 
> Hopefully after Tuesday I will be able to break in the new 980 ti and also get out of "retirement"
> 
> I feel like zerg was just stirred around and over all nerfed though. But sok. I'll play it like always, learn the meta, and win more.
> 
> @Ronnin.
> 
> I have a gtx 690 going up for sale if this guy locally doesn't buy it. It still destroys anything at 1080p. $195 and you pay shipping and you have dibs. lol


That's a super sweet deal, however I'm on the other end of the world, and shipping will cost me almost as much as the actual card. Thanks for the offer though


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That's a super sweet deal, however I'm on the other end of the world, and shipping will cost me almost as much as the actual card. Thanks for the offer though


So, are you getting a card at some point in the near future?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Infestor change is rad, others seem meh. Actually more hp banelings is pretty crazy.


The banes will make muta ling bane better for sure. I will have to dust off my magic box skills for them thors though. Lol and with those tanks i sure am glad i didnt learn the roach ravage stuff.

As for infestors, it sounds cool in theory and may have been, but with the warning sound like the nydus worm we will be wasting 50 energy against good players.

On another note, as much as i hate DTs that shadow step is siiiccckk. Lol It may be bad for 1v1, but would be fun in team games.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> That's a super sweet deal, however I'm on the other end of the world, and shipping will cost me almost as much as the actual card. Thanks for the offer though


That's a shame.. wish i could afford to donate the shipping.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> So, are you getting a card at some point in the near future?


Yep, probably an Rx 470 if I can save up, cause it's ~275$ here and I have to buy two - one for me and one for my wife, she's running some ancient first-gen PCI-E Radeon right now.
Or 1050 if it has decent 1080p performance, cause Rx 460 is terrible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> That's a shame.. wish i could afford to donate the shipping.


Nononono lol







Thanks for the sympathy tho


----------



## Anti!!

FINALLY! Done with the Network+. Now I may can game thursday night and saturday night!

P.S. I will need to do other smaller tests in between, but screw CompTIA for now. lol








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Nononono lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the sympathy tho


----------



## DoomDash

Balance map is LIVE! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20241475/major-balance-changes-test-map-now-available-8-16-2016


----------



## espn

if there is big discount and no expansion then I mau buy. I own the first and second part anyway.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> if there is big discount and no expansion then I mau buy. I own the first and second part anyway.


Nah, that doesn't sound like a good idea for you. I predict you will hate it and come back to this thread and bash it and say you regret spending the money. Sc2 really is for die hard fans it seems, not fair weather players.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> and no expansion


What does that mean?


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Nah, that doesn't sound like a good idea for you. I predict you will hate it and come back to this thread and bash it and say you regret spending the money. Sc2 really is for die hard fans it seems, not fair weather players.


As long as it becomes cheap I will try LOL XD.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> As long as it becomes cheap I will try LOL XD.


Isn't it the same price as Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2? I don't think it will be getting any cheaper...


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Isn't it the same price as Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2? I don't think it will be getting any cheaper...


Game always gets much cheaper after awhile.


----------



## KickAssCop

I am on mission 15 and two idiots are fighting while they keep attacking my base. Enjoying the game immensely. LOTV is a good expansion pack.


----------



## Biobalance

Starcraft maps in HOTS


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biobalance*
> 
> Starcraft maps in HOTS


----------



## KickAssCop

Are the mission packs worth the 15 euros?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> Are the mission packs worth the 15 euros?


Are you referring to the Nova missions?


----------



## KickAssCop

Yes, are they any good?


----------



## Anti!!

Unfortunately i have not played them.. I think Doom has them, right Doom? Then again he may have purchased it just to have Nova ghosts in multiplayer, lol.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Unfortunately i have not played them.. I think Doom has them, right Doom? Then again he may have purchased it just to have Nova ghosts in multiplayer, lol.


Have them, have not played.


----------



## KickAssCop

And as always they throw the kitchen sink in the last mission before the epilogue.
Got my ass handed to me at 70% keystone charge.

Will try again once I get my new 1080s.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> And as always they throw the kitchen sink in the last mission before the epilogue.
> Got my ass handed to me at 70% keystone charge.
> 
> Will try again once I get my new 1080s.


Haha yeah, that mission...


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I just got the Nova Mission pack and had not played SC2 for a while. I was getting 20-30 fps with Max settings at 4K. Even lowering from Extreme to Ultra to High would not get me 60 fps. Is this normal? I have no problem maxing out Overwatch or HoTS. I played the last expansion fine at 4K.


----------



## ronnin426850

edit: nevermind


----------



## ZealotKi11er

It's back to normal. Maybe the game was still downloading assets or something.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> It's back to normal. Maybe the game was still downloading assets or something.


What monitor are you using at 4k?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> What monitor are you using at 4k?


Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC


Damn nice looking monitor. I think I'm going for at least 100hz, gsync, 1440P, and IPS for my next one though. Expensive. I'd like 4k but I'll wait awhile.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Damn nice looking monitor. I think I'm going for at least 100hz, gsync, 1440P, and IPS for my next one though. Expensive. I'd like 4k but I'll wait awhile.


I want to get used to 4K so in 2-3 year when I upgrade I know what I am getting. By then 120Hz will be possible, maybe even OLED and good price.


----------



## Anti!!

OP, could you update the front page please?







Season 1 2015 is LONG ago. lol

Also, who has been playing the test map? Is there many people playing it?


----------



## Sainesk

Guys i'm passing the torch/thread to Anti!!, it has been fun but these days I only love spectating the game/don't play competitively anymore (not that I was ever good) and my hearts not really in the game so I can feel I am not really putting in as much passion with managing the thread as I once did. I'll still check in and post every now and then though


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Guys i'm passing the torch/thread to Anti!!, it has been fun but these days I only love spectating the game/don't play competitively anymore (not that I was ever good) and my hearts not really in the game so I can feel I am not really putting in as much passion with managing the thread as I once did. I'll still check in and post every now and then though










We will miss you.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Guys i'm passing the torch/thread to Anti!!, it has been fun but these days I only love spectating the game/don't play competitively anymore (not that I was ever good) and my hearts not really in the game so I can feel I am not really putting in as much passion with managing the thread as I once did. I'll still check in and post every now and then though


This thread used to be so active







.


----------



## KickAssCop

So guys, mission pack worth purchasing?


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> So guys, mission pack worth purchasing?


LOL! I don't think anyone knows.


----------



## DoomDash

Once my wife is done with college I can finally start playing more games







.


----------



## ronnin426850

How many of you have played StarCraft Universe? Is it any good?


----------



## Anti!!

I havent. :/


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KickAssCop*
> 
> So guys, mission pack worth purchasing?


Pretty good. For $15 not bad price.


----------



## SheepMoose

Hey guys, I recently reinstalled SC2. I only have the Vanilla version.
Anyway, upon going to the Multiplayer section, I'm being shown a message saying that the Matchmaking queues are unavailable. I can't even start a game against AI because of it. Is the Vanilla version of SC2 still supported for unranked MM? If so, why am I seeing this message and how can I fix it?

Cheers.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SheepMoose*
> 
> Hey guys, I recently reinstalled SC2. I only have the Vanilla version.
> Anyway, upon going to the Multiplayer section, I'm being shown a message saying that the Matchmaking queues are unavailable. I can't even start a game against AI because of it. Is the Vanilla version of SC2 still supported for unranked MM? If so, why am I seeing this message and how can I fix it?
> 
> Cheers.


It is supported, I don't think you should be seeing this. Contact Blizz tech support.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> It is supported, I don't think you should be seeing this. Contact Blizz tech support.


Agreed


----------



## Anti!!

Still making changes it seems.

https://twitter.com/StarCraft

(If you view the URL late I am referring to some of the 3.7 changes.)

Also, the OP is still pending update. Hope to get to it soon. Thx for patience.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Still making changes it seems.
> 
> https://twitter.com/StarCraft
> 
> (If you view the URL late I am referring to some of the 3.7 changes.)
> 
> Also, the OP is still pending update. Hope to get to it soon. Thx for patience.


Sweet!


----------



## Sainesk

Holy moly - Deepmind and Blizzard have teamed up to get Deepmind training on SC2: https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-and-blizzard-release-starcraft-ii-ai-research-environment/

I think this is as close to the ultimate test as possible when it comes to Human vs AI in games and decision making. Can't wait until it is ready for matches and plays the professionals...

Apparently they will limit APM for Deepmind otherwise we would just get something like this:


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk*
> 
> Holy moly - Deepmind and Blizzard have teamed up to get Deepmind training on SC2: https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-and-blizzard-release-starcraft-ii-ai-research-environment/
> 
> I think this is as close to the ultimate test as possible when it comes to Human vs AI in games and decision making. Can't wait until it is ready for matches and plays the professionals...
> 
> Apparently they will limit APM for Deepmind otherwise we would just get something like this:


Hollllyyy Mooollly


----------



## Anti!!

Who wants to take over OP? I literally just don't have the time to do it justice. Please PM me if serious. thx.

Edit:

Zerg getting the nerf hammer at tier 3..
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20374453/


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> Who wants to take over OP? I literally just don't have the time to do it justice. Please PM me if serious. thx.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Zerg getting the nerf hammer at tier 3..
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20374453/


Didn't you just take over?!? I really want to but I know I'll feel the same way since I really only semi-follow the game anymore. I did recently install it I'm still waiting for that next patch to drop (with the tank buff).


----------



## Bal3Wolf

I just started back playing more one of few games i seem to always come back and play.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Didn't you just take over?!? I really want to but I know I'll feel the same way since I really only semi-follow the game anymore. I did recently install it I'm still waiting for that next patch to drop (with the tank buff).


Patch is live right now. Marine tank right now is basically a free win vs protoss. If you don't kill the tanks, you auto lose but if you focus the tanks, the bio will wreck your life.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Patch is live right now. Marine tank right now is basically a free win vs protoss. If you don't kill the tanks, you auto lose but if you focus the tanks, the bio will wreck your life.
> 
> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Cannon rush still a thing?


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Cannon rush still a thing?


Yep, there are GMs who exclusively do it and win above 50% of their games.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Patch is live right now. Marine tank right now is basically a free win vs protoss. If you don't kill the tanks, you auto lose but if you focus the tanks, the bio will wreck your life.
> 
> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


orly


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> orly


New cyclones are fairly bad too, as a 1-2 of theyre good for mulching stalkers but have zero micro capability+absolutely require their upgrade to function now, they are also hilariously bad vs air.

Banshee speed not requiring a fusion core is also nice and landed vikings dealing +8 damage to mechanical units in pretty amusing as harass vs protoss.

Mech is still bad vs zerg though thanks to 100/75 3 Swarm Hosts, 7 range Hydras, burrow fungal Infestors and Vipers.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> New cyclones are fairly bad too, as a 1-2 of theyre good for mulching stalkers but have zero micro capability+absolutely require their upgrade to function now, they are also hilariously bad vs air.
> 
> Banshee speed not requiring a fusion core is also nice and landed vikings dealing +8 damage to mechanical units in pretty amusing as harass vs protoss.
> 
> Mech is still bad vs zerg though thanks to 100/75 3 Swarm Hosts, 7 range Hydras, burrow fungal Infestors and Vipers.


I played one game, had a tank with 32+ kills vs Z which is not bad for a first push. I haven't tried the other changes yet, but I hope Cyclones are not as bad as you say because I do like them.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> I played one game, had a tank with 32+ kills vs Z which is not bad for a first push. I haven't tried the other changes yet, but I hope Cyclones are not as bad as you say because I do like them.


Meh cyclones, M3 or TVT all day long


----------



## DIYDeath

I'm a big fan of the carrier changes, it makes them a lot like Brood War carriers with their leash range and with the interceptor cost reduction chargelot carrier mothership is a viable strategy in Dai+.


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomDash*
> 
> Didn't you just take over?!? I really want to but I know I'll feel the same way since I really only semi-follow the game anymore. I did recently install it I'm still waiting for that next patch to drop (with the tank buff).


Yea, but i just dont have the time. Then when i do get time i would rather play the game then hunt the details to update the op. Lol


----------



## poroboszcz

I'd just update the OP with something like this and be done with it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poroboszcz*
> 
> I'd just update the OP with something like this and be done with it.


Oh, this came late this year. Usually it's around summer these come out every year.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Oh, this came late this year. Usually it's around summer these come out every year.


This time though he might be right. Player base lost 40k 1v1 players with this new patch.
Hydra Viper is destroying the game about as bad as rax before depot did in early WoL.


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> This time though he might be right. Player base lost 40k 1v1 players with this new patch.
> Hydra Viper is destroying the game about as bad as rax before depot did in early WoL.


I always felt Vipers were too strong.


----------



## Anti!!

Sorry to necro this. I was just going to let it die, but:


----------



## ronnin426850

Yep, SC2 now ded fo sure!







I'd love to get my hands on that remaster.


----------



## Anti!!

I think they are talking about it being free. Don't quote me though.

Also, there are still tons of people playing sc2. It is definitely in the shadows now though.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Yep, SC2 now ded fo sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to get my hands on that remaster.


Dead is stretching it a little but it's certainly in decline. Ladder has essentially emptied, you will vs the same 10-20 people non-stop, kespa is gone and the game looks to be the least diverse it's ever been - which isn't good for viewership.


----------



## DoomDash

I care 0% about SC1 at this point. I know I liked a lot of the qualities like Reavers from SC1, but as far as I'm concerned LotV gave me everything I ever wanted. Sadly, I don't have the time in my life to play it, and even more so the video game world can't handle a game like SC2.


----------



## Yukss

sad sc2 is dying, i would like to play sc1 for the fun, well, im still playing sc2 like 3 games a day or so..


----------



## ronnin426850

StarCraft and BroodWar are now PLAY FOR FREE, you can download directly from Battle.net.


----------



## Pandora51

Good. No excuse for my friends next time to not play it on a lan party!


----------



## DoomDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Good. No excuse for my friends next time to not play it on a lan party!


That's be about the only reason I'd ever go back and visit SC1.


----------



## Qu1ckset

I'm still getting used to Lotv so annoying how everyone goes airtoss in 3v3 , never get to enjoy the ground units as much.

What's the best way to deal with airtoss , just mass stalkers and psi storm if your stuck working out for the gateway ?


----------



## Anti!!

I don't play anymore, but when I last play LOTV, if you are stuck gateway once they have reached airtoss, you kinda failed on scouting and planning ahead.

If you wish to stay gateway you must have a timing before they can do airtoss.

If they are creeping into airtoss with normal late game timings, meaning they had ground army but transitioned, again scouting, and you must go airtoss yourself.

I am pretty sure maxed airtoss can only be match with maxed airtoss and good trades. Maybe side drops to hit economy when trading. Like a storm or two on mineral line, or oracle branching off.









You literally can take the game into your own hands if they are going airtoss until mid masters. usually nubs that only airtoss can be crushed with good timings or multitasking.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anti!!*
> 
> I don't play anymore, but when I last play LOTV, if you are stuck gateway once they have reached airtoss, you kinda failed on scouting and planning ahead.
> 
> If you wish to stay gateway you must have a timing before they can do airtoss.
> 
> If they are creeping into airtoss with normal late game timings, meaning they had ground army but transitioned, again scouting, and you must go airtoss yourself.
> 
> I am pretty sure maxed airtoss can only be match with maxed airtoss and good trades. Maybe side drops to hit economy when trading. Like a storm or two on mineral line, or oracle branching off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You literally can take the game into your own hands if they are going airtoss until mid masters. usually nubs that only airtoss can be crushed with good timings or multitasking.


I've stepped away for SC2 for a long time and just got back into it , feeling super newb as the game feels different from hots but at the same time not to many people use the new units , at least in gold league..

I don't know I'm getting kinda of bored of Protoss I might practice and try and become good at terran or something switch it up a bit and maybe work on my micro as tosss is pretty slack compared to Z and T lol


----------



## Cybertox

Whats up with SC2 dropping below 60 fps? And why does the 64-bit client offer the same performance as the 32-bit one?


----------



## Pandora51

In which scenario does it drop below 60 fps?

Sc2 heavily depends on single core performance and fps can easily drop below 60 in teamgames or maps with many units and effects.
If you have a good Cpu and low fps even in 1vs1 there might be something else wrong.

Sc2 is propably the only game where an i5-7600k @5.0ghz might be necessary to keep the 60fps all the time.


----------



## Cybertox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> In which scenario does it drop below 60 fps?
> 
> Sc2 heavily depends on single core performance and fps can easily drop below 60 in teamgames or maps with many units and effects.
> If you have a good Cpu and low fps even in 1vs1 there might be something else wrong.
> 
> Sc2 is propably the only game where an i5-7600k @5.0ghz might be necessary to keep the 60fps anytime.


1 vs 1 offline custom map. I run the game fully maxed out of course at 2560x1440. Considering the fact that this is a PC exclusive, the performance is absolutely garbage. I have been playing SC2 for years but only recently I have enabled the fps counter to check out how the game runs, well here we are now...


----------



## DIYDeath

Starcraft 2 has another major patch in the works.

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20975163

It reworks a lot of things and removed Pylon Overcharge, adds back old Chrono Boost, buffs the Stalker and adds a shield recharge with 8 range on the nexus (as well as recall).

MULES can now harvest gas but give reduced minerals per trip. Widow Mines are now revealed while their attack in on cooldown, etc, etc. Zerg mostly got nerfed but Lurkers have a few new cool changes and Infested Terrans now gain upgrades.


----------

